# Top 10 reasons people quit raising goats?



## saanengirl (Apr 7, 2009)

I'm working on a book for new goat owners to help them avoid the mistakes most of us made when we first got into goats. The reason we are here is that we made those mistakes, learned from our mistakes, and then moved on, but we all know someone who has quit raising goats for one reason or another. I want to hear from you what you think are the top ten things that make people throw in the towel. Some things can't be helped, but I want to address the major issues that can be prevented.

Some things I have heard:

10. Neighbors complained
9. Moving
8. Too old to care for them
7. Feed costs went up
6. Neighborhood dogs killed goats
5. Too much work
4. More expensive than expected
3. Burn out from too many goats too soon
2. Can't keep goats in the pasture
1. Most of the goats died


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## GoatJunkie (Dec 26, 2012)

I had a set of sisters returned because the lady's spouse didn't like them.

Of course it baffles me that she chose her husband. How the hooey can you not like baby goats???? This would be a GIANT red flag for me. (There are many reasons I am not married. LOL)

That goat was wayyyyyy cuter and more friendly than the chump she was married to!


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## Alice In TX/MO (May 10, 2002)

You might find this article interesting:

http://www.dairygoatinfo.com/f20/why-do-we-fail-dairy-goats-24603/


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## Alice In TX/MO (May 10, 2002)

One of the things I hear is that the "learning curve is too steep." There are many mistakes that are easy to make, and for people who have fallen into goat ownership accidentally, suddenly, or on purpose without doing research, the mistakes are overwhelming.


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## Lizza (Nov 30, 2005)

I think part of the reason is because most new goat people are new to livestock period. They have a dog, cat, and a few chickens and goats are the first "real" livestock project. So the learning curve truly is steep. Keeping livestock is a big undertaking. Some make it, many don't. Research is of course one way to cut down on the amount of people that quit goats but honestly I think sometimes people just have to find out for themselves whether or not they like keeping goats. That is why I always ask buyers to call me first if they decide they don't want them and I will help place the animals.


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## Oat Bucket Farm (Jul 28, 2006)

The learning curve seems to be to much for a lot of people.


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## Frosted Mini's (Nov 29, 2012)

I was going to say the same about goats being the first livestock people get.

I think there are two main reasons people get out of goats (this is for dairy goats, I have not owned meat goats):
1. They are very labor intensive.
2. People get goats thinking they are going to "get rich quick", but then find out that they most certainly are not!

Oh, also goats are such personable animals that it is terribly heart-breaking to lose one. I've only had a couple of goats die, but I have heard over and over of people who just want to give up when they have one die. It is a very sad thing indeed.


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## Frosted Mini's (Nov 29, 2012)

I also think because of the personable nature of goats, that people have a hard time treating them with a "business-like" manner, so they hold on to goats that really should be culls because they are friends with them.


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## francismilker (Jan 12, 2006)

They are like kids (human kids). They're so cute when they're babies and then go through that gocky stage as teenagers and go through adult tempermental stages as well. They have good days and bad days just like us. When we and they have a bad day on the same day, they often have to go!


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## chickenista (Mar 24, 2007)

GoatJunkie said:


> I had a set of sisters returned because the lady's spouse didn't like them.
> 
> Of course it baffles me that she chose her husband. How the hooey can you not like baby goats???? This would be a GIANT red flag for me. (There are many reasons I am not married. LOL)
> 
> That goat was wayyyyyy cuter and more friendly than the chump she was married to!


 

I had to let my goats go because of my husband..
BUT... it was for a good reason.
The sound they made was too close to human and every bleat triggered his 'daddy alarm' and he got an adrenaline jolt.
He kept thinking that his back brain would adjust, but after 6 months or so it was still filling him with the panic adrenaline every few minutes that he was outside.
We were afraid that he would eventually stroke out or something.

Poor guy.


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## gone-a-milkin (Mar 4, 2007)

I have heard from several former goat owners that the sounds they make were really terrible.
Either they or their spouse or a neighbor just couldnt abide it.

Makes sense to me. 

Couple that with being unable to cull unproductive animals because they are 'friends' 
and you have a recipe for hurt feelings and no more goats.

Plus, they DO die. Then you are heartbroken. Yep.

I just tell everyone that CeCe LIES. 
She really isn't starving to death, despite what she says. :teehee:
Thankfully she makes delightful fiber and is pretty small which saves her being culled.

Honestly, she is insane. I mean look (from today)


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## Frosted Mini's (Nov 29, 2012)

Maybe you just needed a different breed? Was it Nubians? Some breeds make different sounds than others, and maybe one would be more tolerable to him.


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## IndyGardenGal (Apr 5, 2009)

I see a lot of folks getting into goats thinking it is comparable in cost or cheaper than store-bought cow's milk. Then when they account the work, money, and time involved, they go back to store milk.

For us, goats are a hobby (more mine, but DH likes them too). I also realize that comparing milk from my goats to milk from the store, is like comparing a lovely home-grown ham to a can of Spam. Even still, keeping our emergency kit stocked and up to date and making sure they are cared for the best way possible does add up. Fine by me, because I figure I'm still saving money. Goats are cheaper than a therapist. :grin:


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## Slev (Nov 29, 2003)

...well I hate the way they all of a sudden change sexes from being a pregnant female to being an altured male when being inspected by a small animal Vet. I think that really blows... 

I don't like how they plot to destroy my 20 year old "aged to perfection" rusty patina colored fencing. (and when you replace said fencing, they now jump it) 

I also don't like how they outwit you at feeding time, and eat your clothes while inspecting things in the pasture...


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## mpete (Mar 4, 2008)

You invest years and lots of cash into achieving 'the perfect goat' (atleast in your eyes) and it dies before anyone else can see your accomplishment of your dream


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## unregistered168043 (Sep 9, 2011)

I have two goats that my girlfriend got and, frankly, I cannot stand them. They are impossible to contain, crap EVERYWHERE (especially in front of our door), destroy everything, raid the grain stores, contribute NOTHING, and are always in the way.


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## prairiedog (Jan 18, 2007)

They are expensive but all hobbies are. Boating, target shooting, golf all are expensive you just weigh the pleasure against the expense. If something happens to your bass boat you just find another boat(usually more expensive than the last) or you just have to have an upgrade in golf clubs etc.. Same with goats if you like them enough the time and money are worth it.


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## CraterCove (Jan 24, 2011)

I have been on the brink of quitting a couple of times because things happened that cost a life or nearly did that I had no idea about before the incident happened. The learning curve can be steep... and I did so much reading and research before actually getting a goat. No battle plan survives contact with the enemy... or reality.


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## Minelson (Oct 16, 2007)

LOL Gone-a-milkin....!!! CeCe does look insane! hahahahaha!


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## Clovers_Clan (Jul 17, 2012)

I have heard personally from more than one person that they sold their goats because the existing fencing they had for horses or cows, wasn't working and they couldn't afford to replace it all with new fencing. This included electric rope and wire, and older woven wire.

This year I will be selling out my meat herd completely, because of the draught and cost of feed. Most "stocking rates" are calculated for summer browse alone, and do not mention that the animals must be either supplemented, if not completely fed hay through the winter. I wan't my pasture to be self sufficient year round as much as possible. Horses and cows can make it through the winter on cool weather grasses, but there just isn't enough for goats unless you have a much, much lower stocking rate. Not enough books make that distinction.

Let us know when you go to print, I'm always looking for another good goat book!


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## unregistered168043 (Sep 9, 2011)

The number one reason to give up goats is that you discovered SHEEP which are 100x better in every way. 

1. They respect almost any fence

2. They don't destroy things

3. They mind their own business

4. They live on GRASS which is free

5. They give wool in addition to milk and meat.

6. They are quieter

I could go on, but isn't that enough....??


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## Sherry in Iowa (Jan 10, 2010)

Losing stock probably is a biggy. The drought has probably taken people by surprise and a lot of livestock have been let go because of the high feed/hay prices.

I also think that people start reading and then compare how they raise their goats to how other people are raising theirs. Then they get all hyper and think they should be doing more. Doing more usually means costing more. They get overwhelmed (which is easy to do) and give up.


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## Crazy Farmgirl (Oct 21, 2012)

I have found that many want them to be "pets"and want to test then that way and in their efforts to spoil them actually cause themselves more heartache, either with over feeding issues or the unruly beat they create. They are livestock and need to be treated that way, they just have the advantage of being cute and personable. Mine have pet qualities and I certainly have my favorites but the end at of the day they are livestock.

I have also found many who underestimate the time, labor and money it takes to raise healthy animals. You can't just stick them out behind the barn and forget about them and expect them to thrive.


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## Cannon_Farms (Aug 28, 2008)

Cost of doing it the right way, 
the sever exhaustion of kidding season and milking
those are probably my two biggest reasons why I ask myself why am I doing this from time to time and I have thought about throwing in the towel more than once. 
The love of watching my children grown healthy and strong, kids turning into productive adults and the thrill of showing is what keeps me in the cycle.


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## Buckhuntr (Oct 4, 2012)

We started with the two guinea fowl that came with the house. Then I wanted chickens for the eggs (DW agreed), then we came into a pair of heritage turkeys for free, then convinced ourselves that we needed some goats to help trim the underbrush around the place. 
All this in a year and a half. At least I grew up in a more rural setting, and in a family that had farmers. Still, each addition brought surprises as to how much more work, time, money more than expected it all took.

But we both feel that keeping the animals, including the goats, is more than worth it for what we do get out of them, not the least of which is the mental therapy that we desparately need because of our day jobs. 

We have two older housecats, so we were already used to feeding, doctoring, and otherwise caring for animals that provided little, if anything, of value. :hair Plus goat poo and munching the rosebushes are no worse than scratched-up furniture and stepping on a cold & squishy hairball or pile of cat barf just outside the bedroom door in the morning.


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## KrisD (May 26, 2011)

Here's my reasons:
They are too ---- smart. Butter knows how to open the gate to our deck and let everyone on the deck to play including Spice who jumps on our table and chairs.
They ate through my garage door! There is now a tiny pice of paneling holding them out of the garage where the feed is stored.
They break through fences if at all possible.
They ate my roses, blueberries, raspberries and apples!
They jumped on the hood of my car
They ate a tarp
They ate our cable to our TV
They look cute so you can't be mad at them
They are expensive
Last but not least they know what time it is so you had better not be late with their dinner.

But I'm an addict and we don't give up easily


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## Oat Bucket Farm (Jul 28, 2006)

I agree with a lot of others here. I think losing an goat and then trying to learn why leave people feeling overwhelmed. There is a lot to learn about livestock to keep them healthy. A lot people struggle with giving shots, trimming feet, rearranging babies during birth, discovering that FF actually have to be trained to the stand. I think that FF gets a lot of people. They have this rosy, glowing image of birds singing, the morning sun bright, and a sweet does standing patiently at the gate to waiting to be milked. Goats who stand completely still while the person blissfully milks her out.

What they get is pouring rain, cold wind, goats who have broken out of the fence and are eating all of their prized roses. And despite the fact they were perfectly happy to stand in the rain eating the roses, once the person has hold of them the goats are suddenly made of sugar and practically kill their handler in their rush to get back to the barn and avoid any puddles along the way. And then the person gets wet, muddy hooves stomping into the milk bucket, a goat alternating between leaping and laying and down on the stand and all of the milk completely ruined. And the struggle to bottle feed babies who sometimes seem to forget they have ever seen a bottle in their lives between one feeding and the next.

I also think people underestimate the amount of time it takes to care for a dairy animal. They suddenly realize that unless you have someone willing to stay behind and do all the work or a neighbor you can really trust to care for your goats, there are no over night camping trips or week long vacations because you have to be home to milk. This is too much for a lot of people so they get out of goats. 

Between the learning curve, the cost, the training them to be milk goats, the time and the frustration of getting through the first couple of seasons, it is too much and people sell off and write goats off as way too hard to manage, too time consuming, and too expensive.


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## TroutRiver (Nov 26, 2010)

I loved my goats! I still wish I didn't have to sell them all, but dairy is a BIG time commitment (I know this after managing a cow dairy and running my own micro goat dairy at the same time). And managing your own dairy, no matter how small, is nearly impossible when you're also trying to hold down a full time job. So that's why I got out. I didn't want to do it if I was going to have to cut corners and not "do it right"

But someday I will have dairy goats again. I do miss their quirky personalities and making my own cheese and always having fresh raw milk in the fridge.


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## Alice In TX/MO (May 10, 2002)

:viking:Livestock?:shocked:

My goats don't know that word. I'm not going to tell them.:spinsmiley:


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## earthkitty (Mar 3, 2011)

gone-a-milkin said:


> I have heard from several former goat owners that the sounds they make were really terrible.
> Either they or their spouse or a neighbor just couldnt abide it.
> 
> Makes sense to me.
> ...


 
ooooOOOOOoooooo that's some pretty yarn she's got! I'd keep her too.


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## Pony (Jan 6, 2003)

Frosted Mini's said:


> Maybe you just needed a different breed? Was it Nubians? Some breeds make different sounds than others, and maybe one would be more tolerable to him.


Hey, now! Watch it!

No disparaging Nubians. Lots of breeds can be loud, and all those Noisy Nubians stories are blown WAY out of proportion. 

Well, most of them.


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## CaliannG (Apr 29, 2005)

~smiles~ First, gone-a-milkin, that looks like one crazy goat! LOL

In answer to the Op, I think the reason people get OUT of goats is ignorance going INTO goats. Most *especially* dairy goats.

And for many people, it isn't that they didn't TRY. They may have gotten a local mentor, they may have read up on the internet, but honestly, ALL livestock has a learning curve. People get into goats most often for dairy because they are not as large as cows and there is a much smaller initial investment, but really, they would have done just as poorly with a cow.

On another (exceptionally non-goat-related) forum, we were discussing whether or not an individual with proper training in critical thinking skills and above average intelligence could, basically, pick up just about any skill easily. I was one of the people that said ALL skills require time and practice, and used goats as an example. One person wished to argue, so I gave a test.

I gave all of the symptoms of mid-level selenium deficiency *except for* FKS (the hypothetical doe was still pregnant) and told the person, "There. You have the internet available to you. Go find out what is wrong with this animal and give me a cure or treatment plan.

Well, he, of course, did not. But a couple of other members thought it would be a cool challenge. One of them finally came back with, "Okay, I am DYING of curiousity, and I have traversed the internet, but I can't find anything that really matches! If it were a young goat, MAYBE it could be WMD? But you said she was pregnant. So PLEASE tell me what is wrong with this pretend goat!"

I explained what it was and how to treat it, and I think I might have generated some interest in goat keeping over there. But still.

It's a common deficiency in goats. Several people who know how to milk the internet of information, and who are of above average intelligence, could not discover the answer for themselves.

Keeping livestock of any kind is not intuitive. Nor is there easily available information on it. Google "Drooping Bonsai Tree" and you will get 1,000 sites that will tell you the reason a bonsai tree might droop, and how to fix it.

Google any number of livestock problems and you will only get a few places that address them. Google "lameness in goat" and it will send you here, DGI, or Goatworld...and the rest will be nonsense sites mixed with a couple of studies.

And then, the misinformation still rampant out there. Look for threads (other than on here) on disease, or any number of problems a goat can have, and 90% of them will come up with the conclusion of "Don't worry about it". As WE know, "Don't worry about it" kills goats...but that is the advice a LOT of people are getting out on the web.

So, ignorance, and the lack of easily obtainable information to cure that ignorance is, I believe, the biggest reason people throw in the towel.


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## noeskimo (Mar 17, 2011)

Here in the southwest, it's been 3 years of drought,and extreme temps. My stocking rate (40 goats,a horse ) should be good for 160 acres, but with everything looking like the beach, it's not.For 2 years, we've fed hay almost year around. I'm not a quitter, but it's getting rough.


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## Pony (Jan 6, 2003)

That's Caliann, always trying to get more addicts - er, RECRUITS - to Goat World. <G>


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## julieq (Oct 12, 2008)

We stopped raising goats and sold our milk cow a few years back, thinking we wanted to travel. Nope, we didn't travel at all and missed the goats so much that we jumped right back into it. Of course this time of year with the snow and cold, milking does and kidding them out, we sometimes wonder why we didn't stick with the traveling thing....


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## saanengirl (Apr 7, 2009)

Thanks for the great input so far! This is awesome. Keep it coming!


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## Hollowdweller (Jul 13, 2011)

There is a book called Goatkeeping 101. 

It's essentially a collection of articles by the Vandergriffs who own Caprine Supply.

It has a chaper called "Good News, Bad News, about goat ownership" Which goes over the fact that the average person stays in goats for 3 years and why. I even copy that part and often give it to people. You might want to read that.

Here are reasons I know.

#1 reason is milking and chores. 

#2 reason is you can buy milk and cheese cheaper than you can produce it yourself.

#3 is you have to be as good at selling or eating goats as you are at raising them or you will quickly become overwhelmed. 

#4 People go and get goats without reading any books or in any way reading up on them. Then they get on the internet every time they have a problems and get all these people telling them to do all these different things. Going to the internet can be good, but it should not substitute for a fund of knowledge that you build up yourself from actually reading books and caring for animals.

#5 As a rationale for having more animals than they need they decide to start a dairy or start selling milk and end up losing even more money.

#6 They get into goats but don't even have a pickup truck to go get hay or haul animals.


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## julieq (Oct 12, 2008)

I don't want to even think about how much our raw milk costs us! But at least we know it's clean and the goats aren't eating any GMO laden grain or hay. 

Besides, what would we do with all that extra money if we didn't have dairy goats?! :shocked:


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## Oat Bucket Farm (Jul 28, 2006)

Hollowdweller said:


> #6 They get into goats but don't even have a pickup truck to go get hay or haul animals.


Who needs a pickup truck? My minivan has hauled everything. LOL


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## bluefish (Jan 27, 2006)

This in not going to be a popular answer, but what almost got me out of goats was lack of knowledge, in spite of LOTS of research, combined with the attitudes of a lot of people online. I experienced a lot of it and still see it over and over again. People will post with a question. If they don't know to provide what we all see as the 'basics' they get slammed. Then it comes out the are not managing their goats 'right', or worse, the goats have HORNS. The whole thread turns into a 'you're too stupid to own goats' tirade. They will never again feel able to ask for help, their goats will all die and they will have most definitely soured on the experience. BTDT.

This is NOT meant to accuse or threaten or anything to anybody here, but I have seen and experienced it and it is more prevalent than we would like to think.


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## Otter (Jan 15, 2008)

There is a lot less of that on this forum then there used to be. Several years ago, pretty much if you didn't have a very hands-on, tightly managed show herd, you got pretty slammed. But in the past couple of years a few folks have left, lots of new folks have come and this is now a very friendly, helpful place.


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## beccachow (Nov 8, 2008)

I agree with the losses being too much. I came to HT because of a doeling someone had gotten for me who ended up with some kind of nuero issue. I held on to her for almost two months as winter edged closer; with multi medding each day, flipping and propping her, falling more and more in love with her...and then had to put her to sleep any way when it became apparent she wasn't going to get better. SO I got a kid, and she was gone within a week from what I think was entero or polio. I had another goat here already, so I tried a set of pygmy triplets from Craig's list. Everything was going great until suddenly I lost one the following year. I was prepared and started aggressively treating for polio and entero, listeriosis and all of the other mimic diseases they get, but lost her in a day. The others were still going strong, and someone decided to rescue Sammy Sheep from a dinner platter and I ended up with him as well. Now, everything has been going smoothly for several years, but I was ready to give up. If I hadn't had other goats while going through the heartaches I would have, I guarantee.


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## Hollowdweller (Jul 13, 2011)

thermopkt said:


> *This in not going to be a popular answer, but what almost got me out of goats was lack of knowledge, in spite of LOTS of research, combined with the attitudes of a lot of people online. I experienced a lot of it and still see it over and over again. People will post with a question. If they don't know to provide what we all see as the 'basics' they get slammed. Then it comes out the are not managing their goats 'right', or worse, the goats have HORNS. The whole thread turns into a 'you're too stupid to own goats' tirade. They will never again feel able to ask for help, their goats will all die and they will have most definitely soured on the experience. BTDT.*
> 
> This is NOT meant to accuse or threaten or anything to anybody here, but I have seen and experienced it and it is more prevalent than we would like to think.


If people actually did research then they would know to ignore 90% of the advice given on online forums and that the people who are offering advice often are just repeating WHAT THEY HEARD from somebody else in the internet.

They would also not be offended when their goatkeepign credentials were called into question.

The best thing people can do is to go buy some good books or go to the library and check out everything on goats and read it all, twice.

The worst thing people can do is to go buy some goats and then expect people online to tell them how to raise them.


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## julieq (Oct 12, 2008)

When I am questioned by a new goat owner, I always tell them, "I will give you my opinion, BUT where there are four experienced goat breeders, there are five firm opinions!" 

Same goes for whatever I say online, it's only my opinion from experience with our own herd. Doesn't mean it'll work in someone else's herd situation, especially after an emergency has occurred. But we all mean well when we share and try to help others.


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## bluefish (Jan 27, 2006)

I wasn't talking about basic goat raising, but emergency type stuff. In my case it was a severe uterine infection. I was asking for help with dosage of meds as my vet didn't know or care. None of the books I could find told anything about that or how to do a uterine flush. Everyone got sidetracked by the tip of a horn showing in one pic I put up and the conversation went downhill from there. And it got very nasty. Fortunately one person was willing to help me out privately. Most of what I know about goats is from reading books and lurking on forums and trial and error in medical procedures as well as feeding/management.

HOWEVER, we're getting off topic. What are the top reasons people get of goats? If it turns out that my post was too distracting, I'll be happy to delete it.


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## LFRJ (Dec 1, 2006)

Our neighbors had goats. They don't any more. They definitely alienated the neighbors from their goats escaping the electric fencing and destroying rose bushes, cars, the sideing on the neighbors house, etc. So I'd say fencing is one of the biggest issues.
Noise was another - theirs were super noisy which also collected negativity (but then) nearly all of them died. When i asked the neighbor boy why, he said they had too many worms in their tummys. So a second for steep learning curve with disastrous (overwhelming?) consequences.

We learned a lot from them and we're in our 3rd-4th year.


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## farminghandyman (Mar 4, 2005)

I think the screwy government is part of the reason, and the laws that prohibit the farmer from making a living, 

yes in some areas you can sell raw milk, 

but when I started and still in my state, you can not sell raw milk, (some have clubs and other that some what skirt the law), but you get your goats and start to milk, your milking one or two, and maybe have a little surplus, but you say hey IF I keep the does from this batch, I could have two more gallons a day and sell it, so you sell a few gallon under the table, Or trade for feed, then you think you have a customer, and they they do not want milk for a few weeks, so you lean to make cheese and soon you have a freezer full of cheese, and then you may get a customer but your goats are dry, so you can not full fill the sale, and then you look in what it would take a class A dairy, and figure there is no way I can do that and I started this to be independent not some government agent snooping in my place, and then you find out you can not "bottle it" with out more inspections and licensing, 

and finally you say it is not worth it and if you stay in you keep a few does and provide for your self, but when ever you want to get away for a night, or two it is like pulling teeth to get any one to do milking and feeding, and then the goat do not know them and will not cooperate with them,

so if your a hermit and never go any where, and can control the breding so your not flooded with milk or out for weeks at a time, 

Doing dairy is hard, and unless you have a large family or close friends to pitch in from time to time, your just as committed for one doe as if you have a 100 head dairy.

and you have to like the animals, as they can cause much headache and destructive on trees and gardens and flowers and similar, but our sand bur and puncture vine problems are improving, around the place.


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## momagoat61 (Mar 30, 2008)

I never got into goats to make any money, I love animals and there's nothing I wouldn't do for my animals, but after 22 years i'm tried, I'm tired of worrying about every little thing and there comes a time when you are going to lose what dearest to you and the heartache to me is whats made me tired. I'll not raise or purchase any more goats when my last 7 are gone. I have 20 or more goats buried here on the property from the cource of the last 22 years and I'm done with that heartache.


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## julieq (Oct 12, 2008)

We've got noisy dogs and beef cattle to the east, noisy dogs and boer goats to the left and we're each on about ten acres (except for the beef cattle, who are on a larger range). 

And, fortunately for us, most of us here are retired and thus our hearing isn't so great. We actually asked one next door neighbor if our dogs barking at night bothered him and he said he never hears them! Just get yourself some elderly type neighbors, as we're less likely to complain about noise.


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## PrettyPaisley (May 18, 2007)

I have no clue how anyone could ever go without goats once owning them. I was in the barn today mucking layers of hay from the past few months out of the goat pens thinking they were by far the most expensive hobby I have ever had but I would never be able to give them up. That said, I am addicted to the milk and cheese so knowing what I get in return helps me deal with the not so fun parts of goat ownership. And yeah, it's not fun to trim hooves and bolus and disbub but I don't like cleaning out the cat box or scrubbing the toilets ... yet it gets done. And no one nibbles on my ears or gives me sweet woodsy kisses in the mouth for scrubbing the toilet!


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## Buckhuntr (Oct 4, 2012)

Oat Bucket Farm said:


> Who needs a pickup truck? My minivan has hauled everything. LOL


My Subaru has hauled goats, chickens, turkeys, guineas, and feed & hay for all. :nana:


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## julieq (Oct 12, 2008)

PrettyPaisley said:


> I have no clue how anyone could ever go without goats once owning them. I was in the barn today mucking layers of hay from the past few months out of the goat pens thinking they were by far the most expensive hobby I have ever had but I would never be able to give them up. That said, I am addicted to the milk and cheese so knowing what I get in return helps me deal with the not so fun parts of goat ownership. And yeah, it's not fun to trim hooves and bolus and disbub but I don't like cleaning out the cat box or scrubbing the toilets ... yet it gets done. And no one nibbles on my ears or gives me sweet woodsy kisses in the mouth for scrubbing the toilet!


Amen! :goodjob:


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## Oat Bucket Farm (Jul 28, 2006)

Buckhuntr said:


> My Subaru has hauled goats, chickens, turkeys, guineas, and feed & hay for all. :nana:


Yep, minivan has hauled chickens, rabbits, dogs, cats, children, guinea pigs, goats, miniature horses, and feed and hay for all.


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## Willowynd (Mar 27, 2005)

Too much damage...they destroy fences and then eat your bushes and trees and the neighbors. I have to replace my arborvitaes and the neighbors...they ate down my 6 yr old pine trees and some others. They ate my rose bushes and destroyed all my productive fruit trees. Yes, I still have them...for now


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## julieq (Oct 12, 2008)

I got to thinking about this thread, and on a more sad note at least locally, I think from what I've been reading online, quite a few people have gotten out of goats in the past couple of years due to increasing grain and hay prices. Just like they've sold off cows, horses, etc.

I don't know how much the eggs from our handful of hens, or raw milk from our small herd of dairy goats costs us, but we're so devoted to the end products we've cut down in other areas to keep it going. And I know full well that we aren't paying the high prices for hay or grain that other breeders do.


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## smwon (Aug 16, 2006)

Crazy Farmgirl said:


> I have found that many want them to be "pets"and want to test then that way and in their efforts to spoil them actually cause themselves more heartache, either with over feeding issues or the unruly beat they create. They are livestock and need to be treated that way, they just have the advantage of being cute and personable. Mine have pet qualities and I certainly have my favorites but the end at of the day they are livestock.
> 
> I have also found many who underestimate the time, labor and money it takes to raise healthy animals. You can't just stick them out behind the barn and forget about them and expect them to thrive.


I agree totally! I love goats and do not want to be without them. They have to have a purpose other than pets. I was just telling my husband, if I wanted a couple pet goats I would have the Nigerians. But to be honest, just to have a couple for pets... don't think so - they are a huge responsibility. 

Reading through this thread. I can understand quitting goats. My first goats I had in the 1980's I inherited when my step dad passed. They were great - for awhile. Then the whole routine got old real quick. When we moved I was only too ready to be goat free. Later though, I wanted to have goats again. This time I knew the responsibility and I wanted to take it on... The last couple of years I didn't have goats, not because I didn't want them, but because my husband didn't want them. However, he found he missed them too and I now have goats again... I hope I never have to be without again!

Another thing - I just can't abide by store bought milk! Yuck! :indif:


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## Christiaan (Mar 13, 2004)

I added meat goats, Kinder and Fainting, to my small farm after some years of experience with livestock. Big mistake!
Me and goats are like gunpowder and matches. I can see why many people like them, but not me. They are so pushy and will not keep their distance. They are loud. They don't seem to learn. I never had trouble with fences as Kinders don't seem to wander and Fainters can't climb or jump. They die for no apparent reason. The list goes on, but mostly it was a severe personality clash.
Since the goats I have added sheep to the cattle, swine and poultry. I like sheep! (never thought I would) They keep their distance unless invited to come close. They don't destroy things for the pure pleasure of it. The babies are as cute as kids. You only trim hooves ONCE a year!!!! And at least the Jacob's we raise are delicious. I found goat meat to be a larger version of rabbit, so bland it disappeared in a dish.


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## smwon (Aug 16, 2006)

@ _Christiaan_,
We had a horned buck... we ended up butchering him. He was intact and I thought I would really hate the meat... the meat was great! It tasted somewhere between lamb and venison... but very mild. So besides awesome milk, they also make great meat!

I like lamb, but mutton is horrible!


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## GoatJunkie (Dec 26, 2012)

Cece is so darling!!! Her picture reminds me of why I want a fiber goat! Gosh she is pretty!


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## Nancy_in_GA (Oct 20, 2004)

momagoat61 said:


> ...I'm tired of worrying about every little thing and there comes a time when you are going to lose what dearest to you and the heartache to me is whats made me tired. I'll not raise or purchase any more goats when my last 7 are gone. .... I'm done with that heartache.


Momagoat61, those are my thoughts. I too have 7 left, and they are all 9 years old. Losing the last two were especially tough. It's taken a toll, unfortunately. The next few years will be tough.


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## chewie (Jun 9, 2008)

for me personally, I almost quit when I had 3 does die on me, it was heartbreaking. was my lack of knowing what to feed, what to look for, and no good goat vet, etc. a kind soul actually called me and told me some things, and its been pretty good since. I thought goats would be easy since I know horses, cattle and chickens. why on earth did I think that anyhow?!

for a while after my 'train wreck', things were going so good I kept 6 milkers. finally got some breeding that gave more than a pint a day and they didn't die, so I kept too many. when I found myself doing chores for 2 hours each morning I wasn't pleased. it took the fun out. so I sold down to 2 milkers. that leaves plenty (since these goats give 1.5 gallons or more each daily) for cheese, yogurt and other dairy goodness. If I'd of kept trying to keep up with too many, I would've quit. 

my hubs kinda pushed me here and there as well--last year he kept pushing to keep a certain doe that I was wanting to sell. she was bossy, huge and pushy. I had so much milk it was tiring just to look in the fridge. my feed bill wasn't nice. sold her, paid the hay bill off, and the fridge could now be used for other than milk. 

not leaving home much sometimes is a problem. I just plan to leave when the kids are big enough to take all the milk. and not gone long. but, I'm not one who likes to leave much anyhow. the goats I have are easy to handle and milk, so hubs does it and I have a neighbor who could and would also. so having just 2, having backup help if needed, now learned enough to keep em alive, knowing when/who to cull or sell, and good fencing have made my goats into valued endevor.


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## julieq (Oct 12, 2008)

Nancy_in_GA said:


> Momagoat61, those are my thoughts. I too have 7 left, and they are all 9 years old. Losing the last two were especially tough. It's taken a toll, unfortunately. The next few years will be tough.


We have one buck who is 12 this year and most likely sterile, one doe who is 12 and three does who are 10. One of the 10 year old does just had three beautiful, healthy kids, one buckling and two doelings, and is milking just fine after an easy kidding. We have friends who have multiple 10 to 15 year old does who are still active and healthy, and some still kid out each year.

We will keep breeding and caring for the multiple offspring that we are blessed with out of our older does, and continue blending their genetics. We occasionally lose kids also, it's just part of the heartache of being a shepherd/shepherdess. We just had to put down a middle aged doe with a recurrent melanoma, which was really tough on us as a couple. It isn't ever easy, even if you are blessed with fairly young stock, which we aren't.


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## Frosted Mini's (Nov 29, 2012)

Pony said:


> Hey, now! Watch it!
> 
> No disparaging Nubians. Lots of breeds can be loud, and all those Noisy Nubians stories are blown WAY out of proportion.
> 
> Well, most of them.


I specifically don't like the sounds their voices make, not necessarily the volume, as I have Nigerians, and they are pretty darn loud sometimes. 




Willowynd said:


> Too much damage...they destroy fences and then eat your bushes and trees and the neighbors. I have to replace my arborvitaes and the neighbors...they ate down my 6 yr old pine trees and some others. They ate my rose bushes and destroyed all my productive fruit trees. Yes, I still have them...for now


Ew, your goats ate your neighbors? What are you replacing them with, won't people notice?  Sorry, I'm sick.


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## GoatJunkie (Dec 26, 2012)

chickenista said:


> I had to let my goats go because of my husband..
> BUT... it was for a good reason.
> The sound they made was too close to human and every bleat triggered his 'daddy alarm' and he got an adrenaline jolt.
> He kept thinking that his back brain would adjust, but after 6 months or so it was still filling him with the panic adrenaline every few minutes that he was outside.
> ...


Yours is a completely different scenario than a man saying he "doesn't like them" after a few days. There was no explanation, no "they make a mess", or "they are too noisy", "they are more work than we thought".... nothing, just her husband "didn't like them."

He reminded me of the kind of guy who would never like anything that took his wife's focus off of him. I wasn't around him long enough to say for sure, but he had that vibe. :/


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## GoatJunkie (Dec 26, 2012)

Frosted Mini's said:


> Ew, your goats ate your neighbors? What are you replacing them with, won't people notice?  Sorry, I'm sick.


Color me sick too! My sides hurt from laughing! Oh gosh! Let me breathe!


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## homstdr74 (Jul 4, 2011)

We raised milk goats for over thirty years. We had Swiss Alpine and Toggenburg (my personal favorite). We raised three sons on goat's milk and milk products. Always had many pounds of hard cheese in the refrigerator, which lasted for many weeks after the season. 

So we are familiar with goats, and they were always good for us. Our fencing was, most of the time, good. Occasionally they would find a weak spot, but generally they'd rather stay within sight of the house--after all, that's where the good feed was!

But as the boys became men and moved out, we didn't milk as much and eventually decided we'd sell the milk goats and try raising a herd of Boers, both for meat and to sell. That was a mistake. Those goats would jump just about any fence I put up, and always wind up in the pasture of the one neighbor with whom we have a running disagreement.

But I would do it all over again, except that I would never change to meat goats. As it is now we are raising miniature horses--and they have problems of their own, but (so far) jumping fences isn't one of them.


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## davehoward (Oct 22, 2012)

I cannot stress enough the need for partners and family to be totally committed to supporting the whole goat enterprise. I am retired and was managing nicely with my young billy a doe a goatling and 2 female kids. I grew up on a dairy/sheep farm so I was like a pig in sh-t. Suddenly I was in hospital with 4 fractures and a dislocated foot. I can`t thank my wife and daughter enough for coping along with the owner of the field I rent. After a week I could tell it was not fair as her heart wasn`t in it. luckily I managed to arrange for them to all go together to a smallholding locally. When I am back on my feet I am welcome to visit them whenever I wish, I wish I had put together a plan beforehand,hindsight is a wonderful thing.


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## tcmers (Apr 20, 2011)

Maybe we've just been lucky, or perhaps we researched and prepared well. We have three goats which are nothing but pets/pasture ornaments. We didn't find the learning curve to be too steep (we are at the one year mark) and have had no issues with escape artists or destructive behavior. 

Our boys are all fainters, have been whethered and are well behaved and healthy. Expense wise they cost no more to maintain than our dogs. This is probably helped by an abundance of rough pasture which minimizes the feed throughout good weather. 

I spend a lot of time with them by choice. That being said, there are days when work and other priorities get in the way and the total time for goat care is about 10 minutes a day. (Feed and water X 2) 

We see no reason to give them up!


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## Minelson (Oct 16, 2007)

tcmers said:


> Maybe we've just been lucky, or perhaps we researched and prepared well. We have three goats which are nothing but pets/pasture ornaments. We didn't find the learning curve to be too steep (we are at the one year mark) and have had no issues with escape artists or destructive behavior.
> 
> Our boys are all fainters, have been whethered and are well behaved and healthy. Expense wise they cost no more to maintain than our dogs. This is probably helped by an abundance of rough pasture which minimizes the feed throughout good weather.
> 
> ...


I feel the same way as you...and my 4 mini's are pets also. We have had some destruction because ours free range the property. But I think because they have so much room they get into less trouble. I probably just jinxed myself lol!!:smack


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## nmredsheep (Sep 14, 2011)

The reason we got out of goats is that they were so hard on the fencing. We were constantly having to replace fencing that the either the Boer buck had pulled the welds out of with his horns or fencing that we had to cut the does out of because they stuck their head through and couldn't them back out.


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## badkitty (Jan 29, 2013)

tcmers said:


> Maybe we've just been lucky, or perhaps we researched and prepared well. We have three goats which are nothing but pets/pasture ornaments. We didn't find the learning curve to be too steep (we are at the one year mark) and have had no issues with escape artists or destructive behavior.
> 
> Our boys are all fainters, have been whethered and are well behaved and healthy. Expense wise they cost no more to maintain than our dogs. This is probably helped by an abundance of rough pasture which minimizes the feed throughout good weather.
> 
> ...


Our first year was great, too. Then we had a goat die at about the 18 month mark. 

There is definitely a learning curve, and it goes on and on. I don't care how many books you've read or youtube videos you've watched, if you have a vet who doesn't know squat about goats and/or live in an area where there are no 'local experts', then there's a good chance of having issues. Funny thing - all the 'experts' I know _got_ their expertise by completely screwing things up on more than one occasion (at least to hear their accounts of things). 

The thing that is most likely to drive us out of goats eventually is the inability to leave the acreage overnight. We are 3 hours from my family (which makes for a very long day trip) and 9 hours from my husband's family, so we run into problems with that. Nobody here is willing/able to milk for us, so we're stuck.


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## dbarjacres (Feb 2, 2004)

As far as dairy goats, I agree, people don't think they are the time commitment they are and get tired of it.

For me what's totally frustrating is the amount of garbage information out there and the good information may be at both ends of the spectrum and you have to decide what sounds like the most logical answer to your question, feed and medical issues being the big ones. Raising horses was so much easier, due to the information available that had actual studies done on it, but the vet bills with horses were sooooo big - floating teeth, farm calls for coggins tests, antibiotics (if you need 2-3 tubs of tucoprim for a horse that's almost $300 per horse!), DH still has in his mind that the goats cost so much at the vet, but they don't. Just drugs I need occassionally, or when I draw blood for various tests. 

I sold out in spring of 2010 after 4 yrs of goats. DH and I were having a hard time and I was frustrated with some goat stuff that happened and decided to get into trail riding more. That lead to a new horse and a severely mangled leg a couple months later. I had a lot of time while wearing a cast for 6 months to think of how much I missed my goats and I had a couple of my original Nigerians back 11 months after the last goat left. 

This year is frustrating again, hay prices are gonna be high again, feed is high, thus I really needed a good kid crop to have feed money, as our normal household budget is very tight at the moment. So far I have no kids to sell as I'm retaining 4 to improve the herd, 2 kids came out with issues and were given away to someone with time, as well as their dam who went with them as she freshened with horrible unmilkable teats (that was a $400 investment down the drain), I lost a wether kid this am, $75 isn't a huge loss on him, but it would have paid for 1/3 of a ton of hay, and the stress on me was huge. So, thoughts in my head today are why am I doing this, and can I afford to do this.


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## Heritagefarm (Feb 21, 2010)

I love our dairy goats. If I could make a living on them I would have 200 of them. Unfortunately, there are no books out there called "Dairy Goat Profits" and do not exist for a reason. Thus, we are cutting back to only the amount of goats we require for ourselves.


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## velvetnlace (May 30, 2009)

With dairy goats you are tied to your homestead, every day, morning and evening, unless you share milking duties with someone else. Even with back-up milkers you'll still be worrying that they'll forget.

Nubians talk too much.

Alpine breeds are jumpers.

Meat goats (at least here in WNC) are just worm factories.

Every time my dogs started barking at night we worried that the coyotes were in the goats.

For me growing goats for meat meant too many slaughtering for not much meat. My Scottish Highland cattle eat brush and grass, are not bothered by predators, stay in the pasture, and with one death I get a years worth of meat.


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## Hollowdweller (Jul 13, 2011)

That has always been the hardest thing for me was being tied down.

Luckily in the last few years I have a buddy who used to milk goats but got out of it because it was too much work milking. He still kept his goats though.

Anyway my buddy lost his good job and works contract now and I hire him to farmsit. Works out for him and me. He knows all about goats so I never worry.

There were times back in the 80's where I was gone from the farm only one 3 day weekend a year. So that, plus working full time was hard work.

Now we can go camping and backpacking and stuff if we want to thanks to him.

Ideally I think it would be good for say 3 or 4 people to share a herd. The goats would rotate farm to farm so they were used to the surroundings and then based on your schedule you may have all or part of the herd.

The hardest and part we like least right now is kidding. Mainly because we both work and drive 2 hours round trip to work and it means that during kidding season that we have virtually no free time.

I enjoy milking and cheesemaking though so one way I deal with the kid thing is I keep the numbers down. I really try to keep it to where all one years kid crop will use 1 lambar and 1 calf hutch. Also I usually milk 1 or 2 goats thru. That makes sure that I can sell all I have quick because I'm not flooding the market.

Another thing I do is give a deep discount to anybody who will take a kid early when I don't have a lot of labor in feeding it. If I have any milkers that don't meet my criteria I sell them as soon as I realize that and give a deep discount, because my time is the most valuable thing.

Also, once every 5 years I just take a year off, dry up all the goats and enjoy not having chores. Usually I'll not breed anybody to kid in year 4 and then by Sept of year 5 most of the does can be dried off. I don't like drying a doe off prior to 305 so if I milk them thru then I have around 400 days or so in milk when I dry them off.


Another thing I might mention was I was talking to an old goatkeeper once. She was saying that she loved to milk goats and dairy but at her age the kid care was just too much but she believed in pasteurizing.

So what she did was loaned her adult goats that were good stock to younger goatkeepers. Then they would kid the does, keep the kids and then return the goat, now milking to her. I thought that was a neat idea.


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## fibromom (Jul 27, 2012)

:dance:MAYBE I'M DUMB but I LOVE my goats, "Ma'am," "instigator," and "Twin." I am disabled and my mini-farm is my THERAPY. I had never considered goats until my neighbor gave me his beautiful Oberhausli/LaMancha.
Soon afterward, I visited a nearby mini-farm of the owners who bought our rabbitry. I had found a wounded "pet" duckling there who had gotten trapped in some fencing. I brought it and a brother home and nursed her very wrenched leg back to health. When this new friend brought us another mallard for our pond (which all became sweet pets who came to our call! Sadly, an owl got them eventually) she also mentioned that SHE WAS MILKING 3 GOATS X2 DAILY with arthritis in her wrists and that she was DONE. They had some ROUGH land, no running water, and had bitten off more than they could chew for sure.

I was excited to take the twins (not nursing) off her hands and I IMMEDIATELY FELL IN LOVE. Their 3 personalities are all SO UNIQUE. I love that they are such good brush clearers... they eat what our cow doesn't and our land is LUSH with overgrowth. 
We bred them to another neighbor's buck in December and are hoping for at least twins from everybody. I doubt we'll milk. We're mostly after meat and brush clearing.
QUESTION: I MIGHT WANT TO DE-HORN THE BABIES but I hear it is a torturous, gruesome job. Any thoughts? Only one of our goats is de-horned (and she's also the smallest goat; she gets bossed around a bit but she jumps up on the doghouse to be BIGGER!!! She also outsmarts the other two (which is why her name is instiGATOR.)

I DO KNOW THAT fencing... I mean GOAT-PROOF FENCING... is the key to being happy with our goats.

Lastly, I have to say I howled at this comment:


> it baffles me that she chose her husband


:hysterical:


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## coffeekittie (Feb 26, 2011)

Thank you everyone, for your interesting thoughts on this subject. I'll continue to watch this thread, as I'm trying to decide between goats and sheep.

parker


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## Minelson (Oct 16, 2007)

coffeekittie said:


> Thank you everyone, for your interesting thoughts on this subject. I'll continue to watch this thread, as I'm trying to decide between goats and sheep.
> 
> parker



Oh goats are waaay better than sheep


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## julieq (Oct 12, 2008)

Minelson said:


> Oh goats are waaay better than sheep


Totally agree here, absolutely no comparison! :dance:


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## redstone (Nov 6, 2012)

We raise duel purpose goats for personal supply of meat, milk and fertilizer. I have to agree with the destructive nature of goats. Rhubarb leaves is said to be highly poisonous. My 3 mamas and their kids devoured a 50 foot row of them and was looking for more. I have lost so many fruit plants and nut trees that I have reached the ' No More F***en goats, I have had enough of their destruction and high cost of lost food plants '. Then I take the mini herd for a walk to brouse in wild fields and brush. It is a love-hate relationship. But more love than hate. I can see why some would quit raising goats. We missed a couple heats last year and was 2 mths buying store cow's milk. From now on, the firewood can wait till my girls get their visit from George (our gentle, but horny buck).


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## GeneC (Sep 13, 2011)

We've been breeding Nigerian Dwarfs for several years now and have sold goats to folks for various reasons, but overall , I'd say that an enterprise will succeed when folks have devoted want to, time and resources for such a thing. When any of those things change, so does the enterprise.

Folks bought goats for:
1. pets for someone else- goat grew up , kid got bored or lost interest , goat had to go.
2. pets for themselves- folks moved to the country, had a fenced yard, decided to get goats to keep the grass down. Realized how difficult/destructive/loud goats can be- goats had to go. 
3. folks decide to get goats as a money making enterprise- figure to milk goats, make cheese/butter/milk/soap and make lots of money and become famous..reality shows them that goats are expensive to keep alive, how labor intensive it is to make butter/chese/soap and the market isn't that great and they just barely break even, if they're lucky..


IMO, the main reason goat folks succeed is because they find a personal satisfaction from having them.

The main reason they fail is the reality doesn't match the expectations.


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## Dusky Beauty (Jan 4, 2012)

I've seen people dumping their goats on craigslist when they discover they have unrealistic expectations on their dairy projects. Most complaints I see are about "goaty flavor" the family refuses to drink, or breeders overstating the production of the animals they sell. Just because the breeder can eek out a big pail for a day or two on premium feed and supplements--- doesn't mean your little FF doeling is going to give you that gallon a day, whatever the person selling you a goat says. 

I also don't think enough people value "easy kidding" in their first goats either. The best milking genes in the world are worthless if you can't breed a doe more than once--- and those "go in and get em" labors are way over the heads of most people just getting started with a pregnant doe. 
In my opinion, every new goat owner MUST connect with a "goat mentor" they can be friends with. If you don't have a very experienced friend who owns basically the type of goats you're getting to advise you, find a breeder willing to teach you for the love of goats.


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## chewie (Jun 9, 2008)

my goats have never been trouble to keep in, nor making too much noise. but that is something I hear about from others all the time. then I see their fences, duh, holes, loose wire, etc., why would they stay in?? we use combo panels, and have no troubles at all. and by now they know that fence ain't giving up, so they have, they don't even try to break out. and why would they? they have it pretty easy.


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## julieq (Oct 12, 2008)

chewie said:


> my goats have never been trouble to keep in, nor making too much noise. but that is something I hear about from others all the time. then I see their fences, duh, holes, loose wire, etc., why would they stay in?? we use combo panels, and have no troubles at all. and by now they know that fence ain't giving up, so they have, they don't even try to break out. and why would they? they have it pretty easy.


We had trouble keeping hogs in the one time we raised them, but never our goats. Occasionally they push through a gate if we don't have it secured properly, but never jump the fence or go through it. Like you, I think our goats know how good they have it!


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## Alice In TX/MO (May 10, 2002)

If you have goats in your garden/trees/on your cars, it isn't the goats' fault. SORRY!

I know I'm preaching to the choir here, but the *first* thing you hear about goats is FENCE FENCE FENCE. It's true. 

That said, some folks just aren't goat people.


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## IndyGardenGal (Apr 5, 2009)

julieq said:


> Totally agree here, absolutely no comparison! :dance:


According to nurse rhymes, I'm supposed to have a little lamb. I chose goats, no regrets!


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## gone-a-milkin (Mar 4, 2007)

I chose goats that grow long fiber.
Best of both worlds, IMO. 
Though I will stand up for the sheep too.
They also have their place. :angel:


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## GoatJunkie (Dec 26, 2012)

I supppose I could consider my girls "dual purpose" goats, (though *meat* will never be the "non dairy" option) but the truth is their number one purpose is to be my *pet*. The fact that I get yummy milk, and have taken up cheesemaking (and other goat milk related hobbies) are nice bonuses, but this is not their purpose. If I never got another drop of milk from them, they would remain my pets.


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## WestWindFarm (Jan 11, 2013)

Answer to your number 6: if you care about your livestock you will do everything to keep them protected. You need proper fencing and a livestock gaurdian. My rule of thumb here is: If I see a dog in their pasture than they are not protected well enough. I saw a stray dog in my goat's pasture and I INSTANTLY went to buy new fencing. I figure if a hound can get in there than anything can. 

I read a news article about a women whoes goats were attacked. I was reading the article and all I thought was "poor livestock owner...she really didn't know what she was getting herself into" IF YOU VALUE YOUR LIVESTOCK KEEP THEM PROTECTED!!! There are several books and websites on how to properly keep goats. Read em'!

Also, I think goat rasing is counter productive. The cost of feed, dewormer, veterinary bills just do not over come the price of milk or my time to make soap ect. I can understand if you have a fmaily of 10, but, it is just not worth it to smaller families. It is soo difficult to pull a proffit; goat milk being illegal to sell.

Thats my two cents. I am sorry if you disagree.


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## Hollowdweller (Jul 13, 2011)

Dusky Beauty said:


> I also don't think enough people value "easy kidding" in their first goats either. The best milking genes in the world are worthless if you can't breed a doe more than once--- and those "go in and get em" labors are way over the heads of most people just getting started with a pregnant doe.
> In my opinion, every new goat owner MUST connect with a "goat mentor" they can be friends with. If you don't have a very experienced friend who owns basically the type of goats you're getting to advise you, find a breeder willing to teach you for the love of goats.


Good points. 

I think that one of the reasons that some strains of goats are not trouble free is that some goatkeepers have a sick animal or one that has some defect and they wind up bonding with that animal and so unwittingly passing those problems on in the offspring.

Another reason is that often people will have an animal that is a GCH or showy but is not an easy keeper.

One thing I have found is a lot of times the best most trouble free goats I have owned have been the ones I bred. That is because if you've selected for a couple generations, then that strain is optimized to do the best under your management and specific set of circumstances.

So when you go out and look for goats try to find ones that do well in similar situations to the one you have.

For instance a doe that has been in a low production low feeding situation may wind up bloating in an intensive situation.

A doe who is milking 2 gallons a day in a herd of 5 may only milk a gallon in a herd of 10.

I like to try to pick stuff that comes from dairies or large herds where I know that they will cull animals that require a lot of extra work. Also even though she may have been milking less than your ideal, a doe that is milking in the top third of a herd of 100 will milk more in a small herd most likely.


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## KhakalakiFarm (Dec 26, 2012)

-brush clearing-we thought goats would clear brush-they cleared selectively-left the briars for us! 
-keeping a "pet" billy-we got a billy from someone who had been a pet. then when the females gave birth we separated them. he got mean so he will go to be dog food soon. i don't see any need to "keep" a billy-certainly if you do they need to be NOT pets so they respect you more. 
-the goats are hard to keep in and they are all under you when you feed. 
fencing-we had to use most expensive 2x 4 wire and a hot wire on top to keep them (and dogs) in. oh yeah-we had cow panels but they had to put heads thru and get horns stuck-same place same day over and over!!
-Plus they are loud-no nearby neighbors but they annoy us! (some voices worse than others!) 
-they will definitely raid any food bins they can access and chew anything you dont want them to chew. These have chewed up the osb board that was the sides of their shelter-smart they are. 
-milking-we decided too time intensive til more help-also our females came untouched so quite a bit of work to train to milking. Now tamer but still not milking. 
-i like to let them roam on my acreage, but they selectively sought and wiped out my garden before i fenced it-despite lots of other forage. 
-we are wanting to fence pasture for rotation and not sure how it will work with goats in the mix-horses, cows, sheep all respect hot wire. doubt it is going to work for the goats....
-so we are switching to sheep. LOOKING FOR MERINO OR ICELANDIC EWES...we may still keep a few goats for meat-they reproduce faster. and we are hoping to cut feed costs by trying fodder biscuits....
-my partner is ready to get rid of them all-i'm still holding out for a limited herd....that's my addition to the info...hope it helps! kathryn


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## Willowynd (Mar 27, 2005)

Frosted Mini's said:


> Ew, your goats ate your neighbors? What are you replacing them with, won't people notice?  Sorry, I'm sick.


 
LOL my neighbors bushes!


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## "SPIKE" (Dec 7, 2011)

Alice In TX/MO said:


> *If you have goats in your garden/trees/on your cars, it isn't the goats' fault. SORRY!*
> 
> I know I'm preaching to the choir here, but the *first* thing you hear about goats is FENCE FENCE FENCE. It's true.
> 
> That said, some folks just aren't goat people.


BWAHAHAHAHA Oh, that is so funny!!!!! And true!!
Yeah, You just have to give them what they need to be nice critters!
Any time any of my animals "screw up", I take it out on myself. It does not matter if it is the chickens, pigs, or goats. It is still my fault! It is a game you have to play by their rules, to a large degree.


Life changes beyond your total control often effect the raising of goats.

SPIKE


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## Josie (Mar 30, 2012)

Frosted Mini's said:


> I specifically don't like the sounds their voices make, not necessarily the volume, as I have Nigerians, and they are pretty darn loud sometimes.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


LOL on the goats eating the neighbors FMG...my thought too.:shocked::shocked:


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## SunsetSonata (Nov 23, 2006)

This thread seems to have brought in a whole bunch of newbies, and a whole lot of perspective in here. As a lurker, I think this thread is invaluable in terms of getting people to realize what you're _really_ getting into if you're thinking about getting goats. 

Even though I don't have any goats myself - this is a great site! I enjoy lurking here and looking through all your goatie pictures. If I were to get any goats myself, realistically I'd probably just get a couple wethers, eating my money and contributing nothing but laughter and joy.


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## Minelson (Oct 16, 2007)

SunsetSonata said:


> This thread seems to have brought in a whole bunch of newbies, and a whole lot of perspective in here. As a lurker, I think this thread is invaluable in terms of getting people to realize what you're _really_ getting into if you're thinking about getting goats.
> 
> Even though I don't have any goats myself - this is a great site! I enjoy lurking here and looking through all your goatie pictures. If I were to get any goats myself, realistically I'd probably just get a couple wethers, eating my money and contributing nothing but laughter and joy.


To me it is totally worth the entertainment value! And the love and kisses are priceless  I really CAN NOT ever imagine not having goats and I don't know how I went so many years without them. They do nothing but make me happy 99% of the time. They are a guaranteed smile every day. They make me laugh like nothing else. I have no problem with their upkeep. I can live without the fruit trees and flowers.


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## airotciv (Mar 6, 2005)

I got all my goats from nieghbors that were to old to take care of them. I love my goats, but the Husband dosen't love them as much as I do. Now if I have to hear one more time as the Husband is yelling, "Do you know what YOUR goats have done now." I will now give you the Husbands resaons we should not have goats.

To smart for thier own good
Ecsape artists, pad locks on everything
Thiefs, Babe YOUR goat just ran off with my hat/gloves/hammer and the last was a flashlight (power outage)
I could also go to the day that the goats decided to head butt each other and knock the smal barn off its foundantion. Not a happy Husband.


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## airotciv (Mar 6, 2005)

Darntootin said:


> The number one reason to give up goats is that you discovered SHEEP which are 100x better in every way.
> 
> 1. They respect almost any fence
> 
> ...


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## ani's ark (May 12, 2012)

Learning curve.
Costs.
Not actually wanting goats, just wanting their milk. 
Fences, fences, fences.

I got close to chucking in the towel last winter. Despite reading books and doing internet research I had done exactly what everyone advises against and got a doe and wether kid, without adequate fencing. I did it because I wanted a house cow, but was advised goats are 'easier'. That obviously turned out to not be the case and after 6 months of horrid tethering and muddy pens, I had to reduce overall animal numbers on the property. Everything was out of hand, exhausting and bad for my animals. It was not the homesteading dream I had imagined. Doh!

BUT I knew I wanted to try again, so Salma the goat spent a month off our farm running with a buck, and her kid went in the freezer. We did lots of planning, building and fencing. She came back to a proper home. Life is a lot better now that I'm meeting her needs and I really missed her, which surprised me as I felt so over it all by the time she went to the buck. Next spring I'll have 2 milking does. Given the choice now of a cow or goats I choose goats, because I simply like them more than cows. And this website has been an absolute blessing!

Its a really steep learning curve. As I write this DH is out fencing another small paddock for goats and repairing the old fenceline which they kept escaping through!


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## smwon (Aug 16, 2006)

airotciv said:


> I got all my goats from nieghbors that were to old to take care of them. I love my goats, but the Husband dosen't love them as much as I do. Now if I have to hear one more time as the Husband is yelling, "Do you know what YOUR goats have done now." I will now give you the Husbands resaons we should not have goats.
> 
> To smart for thier own good
> Ecsape artists, pad locks on everything
> ...


Oh I can relate to that! My husband isn't as fond of goats as I am either. I got rid of my last ones because HE was tired of them (not that HE did anything with them). But they were a pain sometimes. However, I abided by his wishes and he knew how much I longed to have them again AND he found himself kinda missing them also. So I planned my 'move' just right and now I am starting again. With a few stipulations... *one*, NO buck and *two*, full sized goats so I can take them most anywhere to have bred... and *three*, I keep all the goat stuff (feed hay and the like) in THE BARN! LOL My two little kids are 6 days old today... I love my husband...


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## Minelson (Oct 16, 2007)

I saw this on Facebook and thought of this thread...

How could anyone resist!


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## Oat Bucket Farm (Jul 28, 2006)

Really, this thread would do very well as a sticky. We all love our goats dearly, but for people just getting in, this thread lets them in on some of the issues they may face. Most of the stickies refer to health issues without touching on any of this stuff and what is contained in this thread is just as important as any of the health stuff.


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## Pony (Jan 6, 2003)

Minelson said:


> To me it is totally worth the entertainment value! And the love and kisses are priceless  I really CAN NOT ever imagine not having goats and I don't know how I went so many years without them. They do nothing but make me happy 99% of the time. They are a guaranteed smile every day. They make me laugh like nothing else. I have no problem with their upkeep. I can live without the fruit trees and flowers.


I think you also secretly enjoy the fact that they sometimes make Dave a little crazy... :run:


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## Minelson (Oct 16, 2007)

Pony said:


> I think you also secretly enjoy the fact that they sometimes make Dave a little crazy... :run:


Hey! what are you doing in my subconscious? You better be careful...I think it might be dangerous in there lol!! :teehee:


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## saanengirl (Apr 7, 2009)

This has been a great thread. I had an idea of all these issues since I have been in goats for about 14 years and have talked to numerous people in my extension work who were having trouble with their goats. Thanks to all of you for your input.


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## CaliannG (Apr 29, 2005)

Darntootin said:


> The number one reason to give up goats is that you discovered SHEEP which are 100x better in every way.
> 
> 1. They respect almost any fence
> 
> ...


Passed this one up the firs time I read this thread because I didn't want to snark. 

But I have to say that when I first got back into goats, it took me 6 months to talk DH into letting me have them.

Seems he spent a better part of his youth working his summers away on a family member's sheep ranch, and he HATED sheep. Hated their smell, hated their stupidity (of which he told numerous stories), just hated them and didn't even want them near him.

He was convinced goats would be like sheep. I FINALLY talked him into letting me bring some home with the words, "You will see. They aren't anything like sheep, and you will love them. Trust your wife in this."

A year after that, while we were sitting in the pasture with hot tea, and goats all around us, he turned to me and said, "Honey, thank you for introducing me to goats. My life would have missing pieces without them."

That being said, I do think that a lot of people getting into dairy goats for the first time would be better off with dairy SHEEP instead. Then again, I notice a lot of people get their minds and hearts set on something, and nothing else will do BUT that. ~sighs~ It is human nature. I've seen it work both ways...someone wanting goats whose facilities, set up, and needs, etc, are really better suited to dairy sheep or a dairy cow, but they LOOOOVVE goats (and who can blame them?). Or, someone whose image of a homestead HAS to include 'Ol Bessie, but who really would be better off with a couple of goats. 

Studies have shown that humans make decisions based on emotion, and then use logic to rationalize their emotional decision.


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## julieq (Oct 12, 2008)

We helped some friends with their good sized flock of sheep years ago and NEVER wanted to own sheep ourselves, thus we never have! 

Biblically speaking, sheep are stupid and goats are intelligent. Enough said!


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