# Outdoor Hay Storage



## dlskidmore (Apr 18, 2012)

I'm currently working on the idea of harvesting my own hay. I've talked to three balers around here and none of them want to do more than two cuttings a year, and no-one wants any arrangement other than shares. 

My hay mow won't hold all the hay I can bring in, so I have to look at other storage options.

Things I'm considering (and some of them play into which hay equipment I buy)

Round Bales - Get a round baler, a bale spike, and switch entirely from small squares to large rounds. Downside is that it's really cramped in my barn to move full round bales around to where the sheep overwinter, and outdoors we get snow so deep our fences are ineffective. Round bales stored without cover also suffer significant loss. I'm not paying for the bales directly, but I do have to pay for the fuel to bring them in and fuel to spread wasted hay back out as fertilizer. Excess round bales could be sold, but transporting them could be difficult.
Stacked Small Squares With Tarp - Just make a neat pile outside and put a tarp over. I can make this stack on my way between the house and barn, and it will be fairly convenient except for the snow cover on it. Not a common way to store hay, seen some products advertised for doing this, but have not heard a lot about how well it actually works. Some have said the bales sweat too much under the tarp and the tarp actually increases spoilage. Excess small squares should be fairly easy to sell.
Loose Hay Stack - Uses significantly less expensive equipment to put up, but then I've got to try to pull the stack apart in the middle of winter. The bigger the stack the less waste, but does have an outer rind wasted just like round bales. Excess hay not salable.

And perhaps a hybrid method, of using broken bales to put a rounded loose hay cap on a square bale stack? That would shed rain better than a square topped pile full of cracks, but breathe more than a tarp...

Thoughts?


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## goodhors (Sep 6, 2011)

For round bales, are you thinking the larger rounds or the smaller, 300# sizes? Smaller is not so difficult to manage inside a building, can be stacked, to store and handle. Perhaps machinery is adjustable to make them even a bit smaller, in the baler? 

We have similar weather in my location, and there is just not a good way to store hay outside a barn, keep it from being wasteful. Having to get the snow off to access it would be worse for you, with your heavier snowfalls. Does your tractor have a Front End Loader, that you can move snow with? We would have been buried without our loader, even though tractor is not a huge one.

I have to think making haystacks is going to be VERY HARD WORK to put up, then access under snow. Not worth the effort you will be putting into it, plus wastage.

Small bales are easiest to manage, one at a time. A kicker wagon to catch bales coming out of the baler, will save time in the field for one person. But you have to unload the wagon, bales can be tangled at time, still have to stack in the barn, one bale at a time. You can take out some of the small bales, make a small pile where you feed, just replace the bales when you use them up. Would one of those small car covers with sides, hold up to your snow load? They sell all metal ones locally, so I see a number of them being used to store hay at the Hobby Farm without a real barn. Holds a truck load, 50 bales, keeps the weather off the hay, but not condensing moisture inside. Cheaper is the Tarp covered pipe frame "building", which could also store a small stack of bales, not really air tight either, so hay shouldn't mold in winter. But local snow load is going to be a big factor there, might crush it if you get snow in feet depths, every other storm.

The smaller round bales are popular locally for the reasons above, lots easier to handle with smaller Hobby Farm little tractors, can keep those bales inside to prevent waste.


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## dlskidmore (Apr 18, 2012)

The carports will take the snow load, but not the wind. Our hill averages 14mph, and frequently goes up around 30 mph in winter. One of my mentors actually has a collection of broken car ports she covers in net to make chicken tractors. 

One major advantage to a hay stack (loose or baled) is it would provide a wind break between the house and barn while it lasted. We don't get feet deep snow every storm, but it doesn't frequently melt off, accumulates and drifts, so it builds up in places. Right outside my livestock door to my barn it was 3-4 feet deep and solid enough to walk on. I had to stop letting the dogs run because I was afraid they would walk right over the fence.


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## dlskidmore (Apr 18, 2012)

My current tractor is wee bitty, I will be picking up a larger one if I will be haying my whole place, and I hope to find one with a bucket. Currently we use a snow blower on our tractor.


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## dlskidmore (Apr 18, 2012)

I don't have a ton of floor space in the barn, there are partitions everywhere. I could set aside some horse stalls for hay, but that is not going far with round bales. The mow is only accessible by conveyor, which is not going to work with large rounds.


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## bergere (May 11, 2002)

They do make Car ports that can take high wind and heavy snow load. I bought one for the old farm in Oregon.
Do cost more because of that.

The year the wind was so strong it blew down part of the Clatsop forest... winds got up to 135mph. 
We also had a lot of snow. That heavy duty car port had no issues at all.

Here...
We went with having to stake loose hay in the hay shed... its a pain in the backside to deal with. 
I do feed with hay bags, but its still a pain. It was the cheaper way to go at the time.
Tried the smaller round bales (300lbs), unless you feed the whole thing at one time... is also a pain in the long run. Have to hacksaw it open and get it in the feed bags.

Finally, found a guy that does 50 to 60lb square bales... and much closer to us.
A lot easier to deal with, a lot easier to stack too.


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## dlskidmore (Apr 18, 2012)

Sounds like I'm talking myself into small squares, although roof and base still up in the air.


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## Ziptie (May 16, 2013)

I would be curious to know what people are doing also. Small squares are getting harder to find, thus more expensive. We don't have a tractor. We have bought the big rounds and slid them off the trailer tieing them to trees and such. The problem is the storage. Tarps get holes too easy and the moisture just condensates under the top. Then with the large round is the waste. If you put them on end they are easier to feed out but they mold so much faster. We also have tried putting them on pallets to stop the moisture and that was mildly successful.

I do like the 600 lb squares. They stack nicely,easy to feed out a flake at a time. The cons is you have to have a tractor to move them and the whole tarp problem again. Though I wondered if I took a sheet of ply wood and put that on the top bales then put down the tarp if that would stop the condensation.


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## farmerDale (Jan 8, 2011)

We always just store our small squares outside on the ground with tarps over top. But then we get cold in winter and spoilage can not occur to cold, dry hay.


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## dlskidmore (Apr 18, 2012)

Many hay stack forms from moist areas have a way of staying up off the ground. I'm not about to make mushroom stones, but maybe cinder blocks with a paver as a cap, then timbers, then slats, then square bales, then loose hay roof?


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## dlskidmore (Apr 18, 2012)

The factor that I'm planning to buy old equiptment and fix it up comes in to play, having a plan for lose hay is a nice backup if the baler is not ready or quits on me.


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## dlskidmore (Apr 18, 2012)

This may become a moot point. I looked at the cost of used equipment today.  I may fence in the whole thing, forget the rental next door, and buy my hay. The fellow selling hay is fine doing it one pickup truck load at a time and taking care of my storage problem.


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## bergere (May 11, 2002)

Even used Equipment...if it works is pretty spendy.

Have you seen these mini balers? No tractor needed.


















https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pMK3O00Fyo0


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## dizzy (Jun 25, 2013)

We don't get the snow that you do, but we do get wind. Hubby and I just built something for storing hay for my horses. I sunk 4x4s in the ground. Then we put up a framework for supporting a roof and used old metal roofing sheets. (Had to caulk some holes) The one side is 2 ft higher than the other. 

The sides are just tarps and it opens away from the direction of most of the wind. And to keep the tarps from getting ripped off, I have furring strips on the top and bottom. If I find they're not strong enough, I'll use 2x4s. The hay itself is on pallets to keep it off the ground. 

There is enough air circulation to keep the hay from getting moldy. If you store hay w/the tarps right on top, it will mold. I don't know how much of a problem that is for sheep, but for horses, it's not good.

Since everything that we used except for the furring strips, screws, and caulk was recycled, it cost us almost nothing to build. 

I don't know for sure how well it will hold up during the winter. I've heard we're supposed to get a lot of snow. I use to have one of those portable garages, and that held up for 2 years B4 the cover split, so I went w/RBs for awhile. I found them to be too much of a problem to deal w/so have gone back to the squares. Hopefully this will hold up.


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## dlskidmore (Apr 18, 2012)

bergere said:


> Even used Equipment...if it works is pretty spendy.
> 
> Have you seen these mini balers? No tractor needed.
> 
> ...


I have the tractor half of that mini baler. The mini baler costs 9 grand, is not readily available used for less, produces tiny rounds, no "kicker" either so you have to pick them up. The rounds don't stack as tight as squares and are so small that stacking outdoors will cause a lot of waste unless I do as previously discussed with squares and make a proper loose hay cap to shed rain and form a protective rind. ... I honestly think a pair of oxen to put up loose hay is more cost and labor effective.


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## dlskidmore (Apr 18, 2012)

dizzy said:


> ...I don't know for sure how well it will hold up during the winter. I've heard we're supposed to get a lot of snow. I use to have one of those portable garages, and that held up for 2 years B4 the cover split, so I went w/RBs for awhile. I found them to be too much of a problem to deal w/so have gone back to the squares. Hopefully this will hold up.


Let us know how that goes.


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## goodhors (Sep 6, 2011)

The advantage of them being round, is better air circulation, with being tightly rolled. Yes you still have to handle each bale, but such a small baler allows you to put up the odd spaces growing, so you can harvest almost 100% of your land that a tractor won't fit into with a baler. Between the rows of grapes for instance, alongside the driveway or terrace area of European farms.

I boarded my ponies at a farm that had an OLD baler that made small, round bales. They were about the same length and weight as the small squares, and were easy to stack and move around. They stayed very dry with the little holes between each bale in layers piled up, good air circulation. I was farm sitting that winter, had to feed the cattle with these bales daily. Kind of interesting to just cut the string, unroll the bale to feed. Used a of number bales each time for the amount of cattle he had, fast and easy to get it out in front of them. Didn't want to be among the cattle coming to eat, he had a dairy bull in the herd, so I had to keep the dog holding the bull away and he would get upset. So everything had to move FAST, get out of the barnyard with food. Cattle ate everything I put down, were in good weight. 

Baler had at one point, been the "new and better idea" in bales, for the farmer. This farmer had bought into the ideas of Manufacturer, got the round baler and used it happily for those many years. He LIKED the differences in his round bales over the small squares other folks put up. Baler was not small like one pictured, he put up plenty of hay each year on good fields of a size that fit his tractor and machinery. Baler just rolled up the hay like present big round balers do, instead of folding the hay in windrows to make flakes in a square bale. I have found it kind of funny that so many folks now use ROUND balers of much larger sizes than that old small bale, round baler he had. Old ideas just come back in another reincarnation.

For OP, being in damp NY, you might want to add a tedder or crimper, to your future hay machinery. It gets the hay dried much faster, for quicker baling, than just cutting and letting hay dry in windrows. Locally tedders are also called "fluffers" because they make the windrows much higher, airy, to allow better airflow for faster drying times. Crimpers bend the stalks, also letting the cut stalks dry faster than uncrimped hay. When time is money, you are trying to hurry for bad weather, those two pieces of equipment can mean you get the crop in because it is dry enough or lose it in the rain. My old boss swore having both a crimper and tedder saved him at LEAST two days when he cut the Alfalfa hay. He had new fields, THICK and heavy, but crop of hay was DRY, baled, in the barn within 48 hours after cutting. Such nice hay it looked like some salad dressing would make it terrific to eat!!

Machinery to do hay is never cheap, so you have to do the numbers for YOUR set up, to see if it is worth doing. I hear almost nothing but complaints on dealing with contractors, who don't come, come late, crop they produce is poor to bad when cut late, over dry or gone to seed.

If you have machinery to bale, maybe YOU could be a hay contractor to others, get more use from your equipment and some cash money charging per bale to put it up after your own crop was in. Cash would help offset the cost. Writing your own contracts, you could have land owner providing wagon and people to put hay on it. You are just cutting and baling the crop, one person deal since you have not other help. Ideas for you.

I REALLY like those little balers, sure would be useful on many small farm settings if they could be had a bit less costly. Those smaller bales would also be easier to handle and store on small farms. I know out West they cut and bale the highway edges and down the centers too, so they have enough hay for winters. Some only get one cutting with small amounts of yearly rainfall, so EVERYTHING gets baled, like in Europe.

Now is the time to shop at Auctions, find Farmers going out of business or retiring, get better equipment from them now going into winter at slightly lower prices.


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## dlskidmore (Apr 18, 2012)

Oh. The vinyard comment does open up a huge possibility. If I could get an agreement with the Christmas tree farm, I'd have a lot more hayable land. But... hay won't dry well in the shade, and there is no crimper/haybine for the little tractor. The rake can switch between take and tedder, but if we are talking a narrow space to begin with the rake might not be useful.


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## goodhors (Sep 6, 2011)

Shady hay, "damp but the rain is coming hay" leads to ANOTHER baling procduct, propionic acid. You may or may not have heard of this product used in haying as a spray-on when the hay enters the baler. 

Here is a good site, covers a lot of information about it, using it on your hay.

http://www.omafra.gov.on.ca/english/crops/facts/preventing.htm

We have purchased sprayed hay, used it, been VERY happy with the hay for our horses. I would certainly buy and use it again, if it was available because of a 
wet hay season. We have probably gone thru a couple thousand bales of it over the years. Never had one bad or moldy bale out of all those bales!! Kind of a surprise to us, but sure a good one.

A couple of caution things to keep in mind using it. Sprayed hay CAN NOT be stored touching non-sprayed hay. The moisture will leach into the other bale and cause molding issues. Probably ruin the other hay totally. We hung a plastic tarp between the sprayed and non-sprayed hay, when we put it in the barn and that worked just fine so both kinds stayed dry and did not mold. 

The sprayed hay is HEAVIER than the same size bale not sprayed. So our normally 50# bale would weigh about 70 pounds or more, with spray on it. Tiring to load and stack in the barn. On the plus side, those bales DID NOT fade out except right on the sunshine ends thru the doors. They did not lighten up in weight at all, kept ALL the calories, so we actually fed considerably LESS of the sprayed hay over winter. Horses were full, looked good, and we had plenty of extra hay left come spring. Sprayed hay looked very good, fed well, going into winter the second year we had it. I can't say enough good about it as feed.

You might hear some complaints about the spray formula rusting out balers faster. Our hay guy said yeah, it did cause some rust, even washing it right off after baling. However in the long lifetime of the baler, it didn't really shorten it that much. AND the benefits of getting his huge hay crop in during those wet times, no sunshine days, far outweighed the rust on the baler. He could AFFORD to get another baler, selling hay when no one else could make a crop those summers.

So a third option for damp hay crops you can't get dried fast enough. We were pretty amazed at how nice the sprayed hay was, with the high moisture content going in the baler on heavy, thick hay. Baler is certainly usable without using spray if you don't have to. Saves on the cost of putting up the bales! But back to that tight time frame, NEEDING to do hay NOW or lose the crop, it is GREAT to have options to get it up and safe for winter use or selling it.

The use of the acid spray is not new, but folks around here keep resisting and not spending the money to equip their balers. Then you see their cut crop black in the field after rain, so you have to wonder why they don't seem to learn. Buying hay has to hurt, coming up with cash in bulk for their many animals. I only know about 3 farmers who have the sprayers on the balers "just in case" they should need them.

Hay smells a bit like pickles in the barn, with vinegar in the spray. Not unpleasant, just "different!"


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## dlskidmore (Apr 18, 2012)

My new hay guy hates the spray, thinks it bad for horses. 

Our wind helps us with drying, we can make decent hay in 50 hours.


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## goodhors (Sep 6, 2011)

And he has what scientific evidence that sprayed hay hurts horses? His horses got sick eating some? He watched a horse go into colic when horse lips touched the sprayed hay? 

Spray is a form of vinegar. There would be a LOT of dead or sick horses if vinegar hurt them, since it is in daily use in many horse barns. None of my own horses ever got sick eating sprayed hay, still with us years later, sound in body and wind. The Hay Man we bought our sprayed hay from fed it to his World Champion Appaloosa Horses, who continued to go and compete, winning lots of things. His herd of registered Hereford cattle ate the sprayed hay, did just fine, having more calves, gaining weight well, selling for good money over the years. I never saw a downside to using the sprayed hay, except bales being heavier!

As I said before, MANY folks resist new (sprayed hay technology is over 15 years old now) thinking just because they can. Their choice, they lose their hay, not MY problem.

You are the one in NY, want to get hay made to use and sell. Having PROBLEMS with contract hay men. NOT getting hay done, timely or at all! 

I put out ideas for you. Use them or ignore them. Folks I know in NY curse the short drying times normally available to them, easy to lose the entire cutting to wet. If you can get your crop up in 50 hours, that is great. No need for tedder, crimper or spray stuff on the baler.

I won't bother you with any more information, you obviously have things well under control. You just post so you can blow holes in what other folks offer you in ideas. I should have been paying better attention on your other posts. Have fun with getting your hay up yourself.


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## dlskidmore (Apr 18, 2012)

I never said the guy was right, relax.


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## Molly Mckee (Jul 8, 2006)

Some of the sprays increase the protein in some types of grasses and legumes. This is not a problem with grass hay normally, but sprayed good alfalfa can founder a horse. If it is normally 22% protein and you kick it up 2 or 3 points it is great for dairies but too high in protein for horses.


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## Maura (Jun 6, 2004)

Before we had a pole building, I kept my hay bales under a huge tarp. Put something on the ground, wood pallets work well. Make sure there are absolutely no tiny tears or breaks in the tarp. One bit of rain coming in will ruin every bale of hay it touches.


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## dlskidmore (Apr 18, 2012)

I am very cautious about spending money. I don't want to sink 10 grand into equipment and then find I can't sell the extra hay because public perception of the product is poor, or that I really can't get the contract with the tree farm, or that I don't have the time to spend 2 hours per ton... (That's a full day for myself, need to make more than that to pay for the equipment.)


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## dlskidmore (Apr 18, 2012)

Call me miss negative, but I've sat back and watched people make poor decisions and then end up spending 10x what they planned to fix the mistake enough times to not want to follow their footsteps.


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