# Bye Bye Delilah and the Apology



## beccachow (Nov 8, 2008)

I will start with the apology.

The girl was spot on. Dead right. I wasn't willing to listen because I was so enamored of the horse. While she DOES dislike arabs, she was abosolutely and 100% right about her diagnosis
The vet came and put us through the motions. At the trot, he mentioned what a beautiful mover she was. Suddenly, she stopped, pranced backwards, threw her head in the air and collapsed again. When I said, "Carp, not again" he wanted details. I told him, and he pulled her tongue out to no effect whatsoever, she was fine with it.

He threw his hands up, declared "Deal breaker." He is uncertain of what it is, without expensive testing we will not know. Even after the testing, it is most likely something we cannot fix. He said something about some arabs being born without their cerebellum fully formed that can cause this, he mentioned something about the spine, vestibular disease,could be anything. Without even the clue of steady triggers (ie, can't do her teeth or she will collapse, etc) she is an accident waiting to happen. He ruled out West Nile, EPM and so forth. 

Bottom line, she isn't safe for anyone, much less my 7 yo daughter. 

Yes, she is a wonderful wonderful beautiful mare, but I think I found the reason she was in the kill pen. :sob::sob::sob::sob::sob::sob:

The silver lining is that when I called the girl who had her before, she is willing to take her back and keep her in her forever home. She said the horse never did that before and is baffled as we are.

I was so blinded by my instant love that I wanted that girl to be wrong. And *I* was dead wrong. i think the biggest part of me loved her for how much she reminded me of my Buddy.

And in the usual one-two punch that life throws at us, Spanky is laminitic. Vet gives him a decent prognosis with dietary changes and supplements and lamnitic hoof trimming.

I am too stunned to even cry.

Oh, wait, no I'm not.


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## Cliff (Jun 30, 2007)

Oh no!!! I'm so sorry 

Could the thing the girl did with her tongue have caused the problem? Did you ask the vet?


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## beccachow (Nov 8, 2008)

No, vet is certian it is HER, as in brain, spine or whatever.  The worst part is not knowing what will trigger it, so I can't avoid certian thngs and still be safe, knw what I mean? Like if I knew her tongue being grabbed wold set it off, I just wouldn't grab her tongue. But to do it a controlled in-hand trot? Just no warning.

It DEFINTELY happens when she is excited or frightened.


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## GrannyCarol (Mar 23, 2005)

Unfortunately, there is often a real reason that horses are in the kill pen, esp. lovely sweet horses. I'm so sorry this turned out this way, but you did the right thing. You had your vet do the check and found out what you needed to know. It's sad, but she's got a good home and you can continue to look for a safe, healthy horse for your daughter. 

I appreciate your courage to admit you were wrong and go forward in the path that is best for both Delilah and your daughter, in spite of your emotions.

So sorry about Spanky too.


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## Minelson (Oct 16, 2007)

Oh shoot! I'm so sorry Becca.


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## CheerfulMom4 (May 21, 2008)

Yikes Becky! I'm so sorry..we were all hoping it was nothing.


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## tailwagging (Jan 6, 2005)

:Bawling: ((HUGS))


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## Lazy J (Jan 2, 2008)

beccachow said:


> Yes, she is a wonderful wonderful beautiful mare, b*ut I think I found the reason she was in the kill pen*. :sob::sob::sob::sob::sob::sob:


I see this quite often in my community, someone finds a diamond in the rough in the Killer Pen at Shipshewana only to bring it home to discover it balks, shies, cribs, is barn sour, is lame, or broken down. The horse then makes the trip back to Shipshewana.

Forever home or killer pen, do what you have to get rid of the horse. 

Sorry to see your dreams dashed.

Jim


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## DaniR1968 (May 24, 2008)

I"m so sorry.  Poor girl.


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## cathleenc (Aug 16, 2007)

I think we all fell in love with her with you, Becca - I know I'm crestfallen to read this update. Just sad, sad, sad for everyone.

The rainbow after the good cry is that she'll have a forever home. I'm glad she doesn't have to go back to a kill pen.

hugs, Becca.


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## SFM in KY (May 11, 2002)

So sorry ... but it happens. I've been there and done that as well.


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## Cliff (Jun 30, 2007)

That's a shame Becca  Sorry again.


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## katydidagain (Jun 11, 2004)

beccachow said:


> I will start with the apology.
> 
> The girl was spot on. Dead right. I wasn't willing to listen because I was so enamored of the horse. While she DOES dislike arabs, she was abosolutely and 100% right about her diagnosis


Please tell her if you haven't yet. Yes, she's young and I'm not so sure I'd trust her judgment always but she was right and needs to be told. She obviously loves animals and, perhaps, has a knack with them; you don't know what your apology will mean to her now or someday later.

I haven't ridden in years but do enjoy seeing pictures and reading about all of yours. (WTH is floating teeth? We had ponies in the 60s; we did their hooves with a rasp and never knew a farrier. They must have been really easy keepers--all 4 of my sisters and I rode them quite happily--there wasn't a vet nearby who did more than dogs and cats.)


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## GrannieD (Sep 13, 2003)

So sorry...I like arabs & hate to see you have a problem.. A too narrow channel for the spinal cord that can be manifest in various degrees in horses is called Wobblers syndrome..I had a hackney colt & a friend had an arab with it...They can appear pretty normal until required to preform a given action...mine was not prone to fall forward, but moved sideways at any faster pace that excited him..the arab weaved & fell forward...Good luck finding a good horse..& beware of putting your child on one you do not know ..GrannieD


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## wolffeathers (Dec 20, 2010)

Oh, I am so sorry. That really sucks, but you are doing the right thing. She is unsafe. Send her back, the lady sounds like she will take care of her. Hopefully, if she rehomes her, it will be with full disclosure.

As for Spanky... Follow the vets orders, get him right, and then send him on to a new place. 

Keep looking for the perfect horse for you.


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## SunsetSonata (Nov 23, 2006)

Oh, how heartbreaking. Such an unexpected turn of events.

I am glad Delilah does have somewhere to go. But I am so sorry to hear about this.


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## Kazahleenah (Nov 3, 2004)

So sorry!!!


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## beccachow (Nov 8, 2008)

I never let on to the girl that I disbelieved her, thankfully, and never had a chat about her leaving the horse alone and such as I hadn't seen her to talk to her since that day. i did tell her on the phone that she was right, though.

I don't know why I am so at peace with all of this. I should be crying my eyes out. I think as soon as I realized the implications for DD, my brain returned to normal thinking mode.

I sat over at a neighbor's porch and it hit me. I have two PERFECTLY trained horses at my house. I could plop her up on Sid and she would be just as happy, I think. She doesn't NEED a horse. If one falls in my lap, fine, but for now? Lessons on Sid.


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## SunsetSonata (Nov 23, 2006)

Huh - just read this: "Symptoms tend to worsen when the horse tries to concentrate on something or becomes excited or scared. There is a marked tendency to rear up and occasionally fall over backwards when a handler reaches for the halter or pulls abruptly on a lead." It was in an article about cerebellar abiotrophy and Arabs. 

At any rate, I'm sorry Delilah isn't working out, but I'm glad you know about the risk and that you are already adjusting to the reality. And you won't have to worry about Delilah's well-being either, which is nice.


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## AJohnston (Aug 17, 2012)

I'm really sorry about Delilah. And I'm still not completely certain if her pulling the horses tongue out of her mouth like that isn't what caused the damage, as it can affect the brain. However, without a serious study of your horse, you'll never really know if the girl was really right or if she caused a major problem. Maybe she was right, I'll give her credit where credit is due if that is the case, as I'm not fully aware of major animal veternarian science. At least you know that she will have a good home somewhere and will be able to live healthy for the rest of her years without being put into a slaughter house somewhere.


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## Molly Mckee (Jul 8, 2006)

I'm so sorry. It seemed like a match made in heaven.


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## katydidagain (Jun 11, 2004)

beccachow said:


> I never let on to the girl that I disbelieved her, thankfully, and never had a chat about her leaving the horse alone and such as I hadn't seen her to talk to her since that day. i did tell her on the phone that she was right, though.


Now I'm a bit teary. I know how disappointed and sad you are right now but you did something special for that girl by letting her know. You will be rewarded for this--not sure how long it will take but it will happen. 

Our neighbor, when we had ponies, was a true horse woman. Ms. Fawsett grew up in Potomac on her family's huge horse farm; she was very knowledgeable. She had 2 TBs and a little mare "Teetie", a Welsh pony, which was her favorite to ride. I will never forget seeing them together in the paddock between our houses when I was young; they were 1. 

Ms. F could be a bit testy and quite opinionated if she didn't think you were doing something right but, even when I was 8, I knew she was just trying to help us learn. (My older sister dissed her early which got her cut off; I listened and she was very kind to me.)

She lived with her brother and sister; they both died then one day so did she. They had all retired. My mother, concerned that she hadn't seen any activity next door for several days, went to investigate and found her dead on her kitchen floor. She'd been gone long enough to make you choke at the smell according to Mom. My mother, who I don't believe ever rode a horse, mourned her passing very much which made Ms. F more special to me. 

Not sure why I told that story...


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## gracie88 (May 29, 2007)

> Suddenly, she stopped, pranced backwards, threw her head in the air and collapsed again.


It's so good you found out before it happened with someone on her.


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## Teej (Jan 14, 2012)

Sorry Delilah didn't work out for you. 

As for Spanky I'll tell you what worked for my pony that was prone to laminitis. A diet of NO GREEN GRASS, I could turn her out after the grass turned completely brown in the winter other than that she had to stay in the round pen, 1 flake of grass only hay in the a.m. and again in the p.m. and a small serving of dry oats, no molasses or corn. While having an episode she got the flavored bute with her oats, her feet cold hosed 2 X per day, and made to exercise at least 15 minutes 2 X per day by free longing her in the round pen. First couple of days she may not have wanted to move too fast but the vet said at least a trot with some cantering so it took quite a bit of urging to keep her moving.

Bute & cold hosing went on until the heat was gone from her feet. The exercise I pretty much kept up all the time since she was in the round pen except for the days she got ridden. 

She only had a couple of episodes before I learned that she could not handle even a couple of hours out on pasture. The best part is she never suffered any permanent damage to her laminae. First time she had a little separation that grew out and the second time I caught her soon enough and knew what to immediately do so she didn't have any separation.


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## bergere (May 11, 2002)

I am sorry to hear that about the mare, but better you found out before your daughter rode her!

As for Spanky, there is a very good chance he can become a 100% sound again, might take 8 months to a year but it is worth the wait.
Trims every 4 weeks, no green grass as Teej said. No grain at all.
Grass hay or something like Triple Crown safe forage, and vitamins. 

Bute can some times cause stomach problems, you can either use an ulcer guard with it or use BL Pellets instead.

I won't ride or lunge, unless you know the degree of rotation.


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## Molly Mckee (Jul 8, 2006)

Why would you apologize to that girl? She may have been right, she may have caused Dee's problems (google hyoid bone in horses), but she hurt the horse and could have hurt anyone around her.. If you encourage her bad behavior ( the girl's) it will be worse. 

My experience has been that a lot of good horses sometimes get shipped. When I was a kid there was a bad drought "down south". Hundreds of horses were shipped to mink ranches in WI. We would try to ride the ones we thought look like they were worth saving, and most were. We even found 5 gaited, obviously show horses in the mix and very nice hunter/jumpers that were well trained. We bought them for kill price and found them good homes. The man that took delivery of the horses raised saddlebreds as well as mink, so he let us save as many as we could.


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## beccachow (Nov 8, 2008)

When I saw the incident square on yesterday, I saw tremors under her skin for about 3-5 seconds before the collapse. She didn't flail like with a grand mal seizure, but it was defiitely some type of seizure like activity .

Oddly enough, I had been having a hard time getting DD back up to ride her this past week. She actually told me yesterday before the vet came out that she was worried about falling off of her, a statement she had never made about any other horse on the farm.

She isn't as heartbroken as I thought she would be; I think her confidence was shaken to the core when she witnessed Princes Dee collapse that first time.

Sid is up on deck for her lessons now; he is a gigantic bullheaded beast but gentle and reliable. He used to be a lesson horse, so he is the best candidate for her now.


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## nduetime (Dec 15, 2005)

Awwww, sorry about Dee and Spanky. I am glad you went to the time trouble/expense to have everything checked out. You have probably saved your little girl from a bad accident. Good job! Yeah, I agree with whoever said horses are usually in kill pens for a reason. Sad but true. Glad nobody got hurt and especially thrilled she will have a home to stay in. Something to be said for large pasture ornaments. Sid, certainly sounds like the horse to learn on. You already know him and his faults and know that he is healthy and well trained. No guessing games when it comes to your daughter. That is the way to go in my mind.


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## beccachow (Nov 8, 2008)

ndue, that is the thing that keeps me from being overly upset: the idea that she would put her head up to trot, have an incident and go down with DD on her!!! No way would DD recognize the need to bail off, and I am not sure an expericed horse person woul dbe able to get off in time. It looks as though you would have about 5 seconds to analyze and jump clear, just not do-able . WHen it starts it seems as if she is being a typical prancy arab; that is kind of what cllued me in when I was trotting her for the vet, Delilah doesn't DO the prancy thing, so I knew it was about to happen again. I'd never have confidence in her and could never put DD up there.

Sad, but thank goodness the girl will take her back and I don't have to try to rehome her with this condition.


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## CheerfulMom4 (May 21, 2008)

Was just thinking about you..I've had situations like this and they have always left me emotinally drained. Then I feel relieved after it's all over.

Sid sounds good..the old tried and true.


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## where I want to (Oct 28, 2008)

I think we all mostly buy horses with our hearts. And our hearts tend to be willing to overlook things. I'm so sorry she did not work out for you.


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## beccachow (Nov 8, 2008)

One of my neighbors pointed out that this hurts me twice as badly because of the resemblance to Buddy. I think I need to let my heart heal from his loss before looking at any more arabs. I know its been nearly 6 months but it still hurts. In a strange way its like losing him again, even though Delilah is a wonderful horse in her own right.

I've got the feelers out, but am not actively seeking any more at this point. I'll be toddling out later to saddle Sid and see what he's got.


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## CJBegins (Nov 20, 2009)

Becky, did your vet say this was only with arabs. I had a quarter horse that would occasionally go down and take forever to get up. I never saw her do it when she wasn't being ridden but she did it at a horse show when being asked to back, in a creekbed when asked to climb a bank. There were several times and fortunately I had pretty quick reflexes then and could get my feet out of the stirrups and get off before she hit the ground. She was great to ride but I never knew when she was gonna go down and I could never figure out what was wrong with her.

Very interesting.
Carla


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## beccachow (Nov 8, 2008)

Nope, turns out that while it is a big arab thing, it also has crossed the "breed barrier'"and can be found in other horses as well. usually in Arabs it is recognized right away and the foals are euthanized to prevent injury to themselves or others as they grow.

Like was posted, it seemed to be excitement and fear related, or as yesterday I tugged on her halter to get her to trot. Think about the common factors and you might have it: being backed=raising the head and pressure on the head, up the creekbed=raising head and excitement, etc.

Did she recover immediately and regain her feet, then act like it never happened? That was what Dee did; afterwards it was business as usual. That's why I was quick to write off a seizure; even a petit mal seizure can leave you loopy for a few minutes afterwards.

Crazy. I warned the girl taking her back to be careful, she is 5 months preggers and while the horse, God bless her, actually backs away from you as if she knows it is about to happen, she can't control her fall. Doesn't flail or kick, but drops like a sack of potatoes.


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## wolffeathers (Dec 20, 2010)

CJBegins said:


> Becky, did your vet say this was only with arabs. I had a quarter horse that would occasionally go down and take forever to get up. I never saw her do it when she wasn't being ridden but she did it at a horse show when being asked to back, in a creekbed when asked to climb a bank. There were several times and fortunately I had pretty quick reflexes then and could get my feet out of the stirrups and get off before she hit the ground. She was great to ride but I never knew when she was gonna go down and I could never figure out what was wrong with her.
> 
> Very interesting.
> Carla


Since she was a quarter horse, could she have been Impressive bred? Quarter horses have a disorder that cause them to seize and collapse, the bloodlines have been traced back to the horse Impressive. It's why you see halter/Impressive bred horses advertised with HYPP ?/? .. Sometimes when a horse turns up HYPP positive or symptomatic, they'll strip it of it's papers and sell it grade to make a buck, despite the horse being a danger to safety.

Here's some reading on it.
http://www.vgl.ucdavis.edu/services/hypp.php


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## beccachow (Nov 8, 2008)

@Wolf, I was also thinking HYPP and then got to wondering if THAT crosses the breed barrier. I know it is all traced back to Impressive, but what if? The signs were there in Dee...tremors followed by collapse. OTOH, she might not have been full arab and could have had some QH in there. In CJ's case, don't they collapse after the excercise, not during, though? I'm not as up on the disease at all.

Sad that I'll never know. The other girl seems to have some $$ so I bet she will have Dee undergo full neuro testing and Xrays.


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## wolffeathers (Dec 20, 2010)

I haven't heard of it crossing into other breeds. It could be probable if she was a quarter horse cross. 

I'm not terribly well read on the disease. I just know the general overview of the disease and how to avoid it. While a QH fan, I was never a fan of Impressive-style halter horses, so it is easy enough for me to avoid.


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## CJBegins (Nov 20, 2009)

Wolffeathers, thanks for your response also. My mare didn't have any impressive breeding. I can't remember all of her blood lines but she was actually apha. Mardel Dixon is the only one that comes to mind at the moment. This mare had such a nice trot for a quarter horse but I really had to watch her, she would drop like a fly. She would lay there for a bit like she thought should wouldn't be able to get up, and then she would and she would be fine. I didn't ride her real often cause I was a little concerned about being crushed. Sadly, this mare died shortly after foaling several years ago. It broke my heart. She was a really sweet horse and wildly colored black and white tovero. 

We did have a gelding that had Impressive bloodlines. He was a beauty but I could tell he had something going on. He would be drenched in sweat when the rest of the herd was dry. We didn't have him tested. When he was sold he was sold with full disclosure. It's kinda hard to hide impressive bloodlines, they really show in the body build if the have the right nutrition when growing up.


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## Joshie (Dec 8, 2008)

Becky, if you didn't say anything to the girl about not trusting her judgement, don't. Even though she was right this time, I think her dislike of Arabs colored her view. Most of what she complained about was behavioral, not neurological. 

Does Dee have cataplexy? Maybe she does have horsey-narcolepsy. Cataplexy is induced by excitement. From your description it sounds more and more like narcolepsy to me. Is she sleepy? Some antidepressants (tricyclics such as imipramine and protriptyline or SSRIs like fluoxetine, paroxetine, sertraline, citalopam) can help reduce cataplexy. 

Horses : CNS: narcolepsy / cataplexy | Vetstream
Cataplexy - Scholarpedia


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## Teej (Jan 14, 2012)

bergere said:


> I won't ride or lunge, unless you know the degree of rotation.


Shouldn't be any rotation of the coffin bone unless the laminitis has progressed to founder. The exercise was to get the blood circulating in the feet to prevent that progression. 

I will add that this advice came from an older vet that still had some old ideas but it worked for my pony so I stuck with it. She never had any lasting problems and I continued to trail ride her without a sign of any lameness on her part up until she went blind from uveitis. Loved that pony to pieces but she had more health issues than any other horse I own or have owned. At least she wasn't accident prone.


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## beccachow (Nov 8, 2008)

I can't guarantee that it is cataplexy, and since it is induced by fear or excitement what would stop her from doing it on the trail or with DD on her? I think it sounds like that as well. Sadly, no matter what it is, I just can't take the chance it would happen with DD on her. If there was more of a warning...say a minute of walking with her head up in the air or something, or tripping continuously for 5 minutes, you know SOMETHING that would tell us, "GET OFF NOW" I really would toy with the idea of keeping her, testing her etc. Then, there is the fact that my trails are "real" trails, narrow at times, rocky, hilly; what if she did that out there? She would hurt herself badly . The 5 minute warning wouldn't be enough time to get her safe. 

I feel so icky about the whole thing. She called to me yesterday as I went past on the 4 wheeler...she really is such a sweet animal, perfect in every way except for one, but it is a pretty big one. The only thing keeping me sane and calm is that I know her previous owner will keep her forever, she just reassured me of that yesterday. I am about to take one of the saddest trips in recent history this evening. 

Spanky, meanwhile, has his muzzle on and looks pathetic, lol. Is there anything sadder than a horse with a grazing muzzle?


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## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

They all look pathetic in grazing muzzles. My Warmblood mare is at least 100 lbs overweight and she's had her muzzle on continously since the beginning of May.  Thankfully she's not cresty and doesn't show any indication of laminitis. She does look so pitiful that I'll stick small treats through the hole in the bottom occasionally.


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## Lisa in WA (Oct 11, 2004)

I'm so sorry, Becky. That really sucks, but I agree with you completely about not taking a chance with your daughter.


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## brody (Feb 19, 2009)

my heart just broke a little


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## wr (Aug 10, 2003)

beccachow, the quickest way to turn a kid off horses it to have them scared or hurt and this horse has the potential to do both so I feel you're doing the right thing.


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## DamnearaFarm (Sep 27, 2007)

<<<hugs>>> Becky. For being the good mom (horse and people) that we know you to be.


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## Cliff (Jun 30, 2007)

Sad situation  I just keep thinking of what the horsie whisperer lady told you....


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## beccachow (Nov 8, 2008)

I'm off in a few minutes to take her back. Sad beyond words. What a good, sweet girl she is.


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## Minelson (Oct 16, 2007)

so sorry (((hugs)))


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