# Running my chainsaw out of gas "breaks" it



## jennigrey (Jan 27, 2005)

I was given a second-hand chainsaw that has turned out to be a lemon. When I run it out of gas, I cannot re-start it. I have taken it to a small engine repair guy in town THREE times. Each time he takes it apart, cleans it, puts it back together and sharpens the chain. Fires right up. But the next time I run it out of gas, I'm up the creek again. 

When I'm planning on shelving the saw for a while, I idle it out. I use it until it starts to lean out and the idle kicks up. Once the idle kicks up, I stop using it and let it idle until it runs out. 

Later, I re-fuel it and go through the same routine that I do to start it when I first get it back from the shop or between breaks on a job. It seems to flood immediately. 

I don't know about the inner workings of a chainsaw carburetor but the guy at the shop said there isn't a float, which makes sense. But the symptoms remind me of a needle valve getting stuck open. I'm guessing that when the idle kicks up as it leans out, something gets stuck open, but I have nothing to substantiate that. Never had this kind of engine apart. I would take it apart myself but I don't have a manual for it, so it would be a project of a caliber that I don't have the time or space on the workbench for.

The guy at the shop has been no help in solving this problem. He blames me. First he said I left gas in it and I said I didn't. Later he said that I used old or bad gas and I said I didn't. Then he said that I must be getting crud in the tank when I refuel. Um, no. Running the saw out of gas costs me twenty bucks plus tax to remedy and NOT running it out isn't an option if it's going to sit for any amount of time. Not going back to that shop again; tired of being blamed (and charged) for his inability to figure this out. I gave him three chances. No more.

Any advice? 

Oh, the saw is a Mac 3514.


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## RonM (Jan 6, 2008)

The easy solution to that problem is dont let it run out of fuel mix......


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## glenn amolenaar (Mar 3, 2007)

Try putting stabil or seafoam in fuel, do not drain or run tank dry, I use seafoam works great.


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## primal1 (Aug 22, 2003)

I've always heard you can shelf a chainsaw with gas, just make sure you start it at least once every 2-3 months. We have one at work that is a pain to start again once it runs out of fuel so we just try never to run out


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## solidwoods (Dec 23, 2005)

Don't run a 2 cycle engine out of gas.
When you do the engine is running for a few seconds with no lubrication.
You are killing your engine,, don't do that.
Any motor shop worth their salt knows that.
jim


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## arabian knight (Dec 19, 2005)

Yes I will agree don;t let it "run out" 2 cycles engines that hate that. And besides Why "run it out"? Even for storage there are plenty of gas additives to make this a no no for letting something like that run out till next time.


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## joebill (Mar 2, 2013)

If you are running it out and trying to start it again right off, the problem probably is;

When you unscrew the gas cap, you are releasing pressure on the fuel, and the pressure is the only reason the gas is not boiling. Run it up to regular temp, shut it off and unscrew the cap, you can see the gas boil. At that time, you have vapor instead of gasoline at the carb, and it won;t run. 

Filling it when the tank is half empty helps, but it still remains a problem on some saws. Best to leave some fuel in the tank and start it, time to time.....Joe


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## jennigrey (Jan 27, 2005)

Dagnabbit, that wasn't what I wanted to hear.

Our other chainsaws were never this fussy. We always ran the big ones out at the end of the season to let them sit.

The guy at the shop didn't say boo when I described to him how I let them lean out. He still maintains I'm using the wrong fuel.

I didn't think I'd hurt it letting it idle out. Running it out hard, yes, I can see how that would be bad. But just an idle?

I don't have a problem re-starting it hot with gas in the tank. I've never run it out, refilled it and then tried to start it again hot. I run it out to store it. I had a couple of trees come down early this year so the saw came out of storage only a couple of weeks after I had stored it. That shouldn't be enough time to dry out diaphragms or gaskets or anything.


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## jennigrey (Jan 27, 2005)

But, having said all that, I'm going to store the saw wet, on y'all's recommendations. Thanks!


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## Zephaniah (Mar 16, 2010)

Are you sure it "floods" out after you run out?
Are you sure the primer bulb works? the little plastic primer bulb that you push a few times. The Carb works with air pulses from the crankcase to pump fuel. if the gasket leaks or the diaphragm is cracked or fails you have this problem. are you chokeing it corectly when you restart?


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## gilberte (Sep 25, 2004)

I use one ounce of Seafoam per gallon of gas. I leave gas in the saw when I'm done with it and it might be three or four months before I use it again. My Husqvarna is 12 years old now and I've never had a carburation problem (knocking on wood).


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## foxtrapper (Dec 23, 2003)

While there is a tiny grain of truth regarding the engine running without lubricant by running it dry, it's a very tiny grain. Honestly, I have never seen an engine show signs of damage from this. The lubricating oil already on the bearing surfaces does not magically disapear when the flow of fuel and oil mist stops.

Really, the practice of running 2-stroke engines dry for storage is a decades old practice. It's old because it works well. Storing one with fuel has long led to sticky carburetors and pumps and such, which makes the restart difficult to impossible without disassembling things to clean them out.

Personally, I suspect you've got two problems going with your scenario.

#1 is the time it takes to get the fuel mixture up from the tank, through the carburetor, and into the engine. This takes a good bit of string pulling. 

#2 is flooding it. 2-strokes in general are right touchy about flooding. With chainsaws in particular, the general rule of thumb is choke on until the saw just burps. As soon as it burps, choke off. It will usually start and run on the next pull or two. Leave it running for a few seconds to stabilize itself. And then you're good to go.


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## Ross (May 9, 2002)

I dunno we run our saws outa gas all the time. Cool refuel and go. I'd try a different mechanic or a different saw. We run Huskys today but it was true with the Stihls and Poulans too.


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## Bret4207 (May 31, 2008)

Were it me, I'd find a reputable shop to take a look at it. A new fuel filter and check of the fuel lines is the first thing I'd look at. Todays fuels tend to gum up small engine carbs something terrible. A little gum or a collapsing hose can do just what you describe. Slight air leaks in the lines or primer if it has one will do it too. 

I personally haven't had any luck whatsoever with Sta-bil. Seafoam does better for me, but running a saw dry usually negates the need for either. If this is one of the consumer level Macs brought out in the past few years, and a quick google search shows it is, you're dealing with a low priced, low quality saw with marginal components to start with.


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## dkhern (Nov 30, 2012)

i was told the other day that they are now making gas lines for use with ethanol. ethanol breaks the other types down and restricts the flow.


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## MichaelK! (Oct 22, 2010)

Don't be so worried about taking your saw apart and doing it yourself. It's not like rebuilding a car engine.

After letting my saw sit for a year, it would not start at all. First thing I did was clean the air filter, spark plug, and fresh fuel.

Still wouldn't start.

Next I traced where the fuel lines routed and checked that none were blocked.

Still wouldn't start.

I dismounted the carburetor from the block, split it open and blew carb cleaner through everything. After re-assembly, the saw started, idled few a few seconds, then died. After priming, it would again start, but would instantly die every single time I pressed the throttle lever.

This told me I had two problems. Cleaning out the carb only solved one of them. The saw was stalling because it was not getting enough gas. I blew carb cleaner through the hose and saw it come out the fuel filter, so the filter wasn't clogged. I also cleaned the sintered brass air-vent. The priming bulb was working because I could press it and watch gas squirt. Finally, I read on the internet that it might be that the fuel lines might be cracked.

I replaced all the fuel lines going in and out of the tank, and it started right up. It's now running fine and back at work.

Gennigray, getting back to your problem, I'd start at your fuel tank and follow the path of the fuel every single step of the way till it enters the engine. Just eliminate any potential problem one by one till you get it working. Note that lines in and out of the priming pump might be two different sizes so the inlet and outlet don't get confused.


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## Cabin Fever (May 10, 2002)

This won't fix the problem, but next time it happens remove the plug and squirt a bit of fuel mix into the cylinder and see if that doesn't start it up and allow it to keep running.


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## frankva (May 21, 2009)

After it cools.

You don't want to hear it but the key words are "I was given."

Hope you find a quick easy solution.


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## DaleK (Sep 23, 2004)

I'd find a better mechanic too. I run 5 saws on a regular basis, usually at least three every day, and I run them all dry every fill up and they never get put away with gas in them even overnight. When you have a saw running for half an hour a few seconds without oil isn't an issue.


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## jennigrey (Jan 27, 2005)

Zephaniah said:


> Are you sure it "floods" out after you run out?
> Are you sure the primer bulb works? the little plastic primer bulb that you push a few times. The Carb works with air pulses from the crankcase to pump fuel. if the gasket leaks or the diaphragm is cracked or fails you have this problem. are you chokeing it corectly when you restart?


My method of starting the saw works if I have not let it run out. I don't push the primer bulb at all to start it normally, but I do press it a couple of times after I have run it out and then re-fueled. Just til the bulb is about half-full. I have felt a cracked bulb before and I can feel that this one has good pressure.

After I have run it dry, refilled it, pressed the primer bulb a few times, I go through the same starting sequence I normally use (successfully) before having run it out: 
- click kill switch to "run"
- engage trigger interlock
- disengage chain brake
- slide choke out to full 
- give one pull (at this point it usually sounds halfway interested in starting)
- slide choke in to half
- pull again
At this point, the saw will start if I hadn't previously run it out. If I had run it out, it doesn't sound at all like it will start. I know that fuel is moving because if I pull on it too many times, the saw starts kicking fuel out of somewhere. The exhaust, I think.


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## jennigrey (Jan 27, 2005)

foxtrapper said:


> Personally, I suspect you've got two problems going with your scenario.
> 
> #1 is the time it takes to get the fuel mixture up from the tank, through the carburetor, and into the engine. This takes a good bit of string pulling.
> 
> #2 is flooding it. 2-strokes in general are right touchy about flooding. With chainsaws in particular, the general rule of thumb is choke on until the saw just burps. As soon as it burps, choke off. It will usually start and run on the next pull or two. Leave it running for a few seconds to stabilize itself. And then you're good to go.


I have pulled it so many times that if I had been pulling a saw instead of the string, I would have gotten the job done manually. Eventually, fuel trickles out of somewhere... the exhaust, I think.

As to #2, this saw is VERY touchy about flooding, for normal starts. Like you say, choke on full for a single pull _only_. Then half choke or completely off and it'll start in one or two pulls. 

What really frustrates me is that it starts great and runs well, so long as I haven't run it out. The first time I took it to the shop in town, he handed me quite a bill. He replaced all the consumables in the saw, including the lines and filter and some diaphragms and I-don't-know-what-all. So the lines should be good. I've pulled out the fuel filter and massaged it to make sure it wasn't just clogged. Each time I took it in, the guy at the shop tried to start it and couldn't start it. So it wasn't just me.

The spark plug is quite wet. Not the slightest bit fouled. Getting good spark.


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## jennigrey (Jan 27, 2005)

MichaelK! said:


> Don't be so worried about taking your saw apart and doing it yourself. It's not like rebuilding a car engine.
> 
> After letting my saw sit for a year, it would not start at all. First thing I did was clean the air filter, spark plug, and fresh fuel.
> 
> ...


I'm embarrassed to say that I did have a quick stab at it the first time it wouldn't start but I couldn't figure out how to get the shroud off. I removed every fastener I could find that looked like it pertained to the shroud and still it wouldn't budge. I suspect that you need to know where to pry in order to get it off. I was afraid of breaking some kind of tab or clip.


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## jeeper55 (Feb 24, 2008)

I have 2 Sthils never a problem starting them, i use high test and marine sta bil in all my 2 cycle engines and never run them dry before i put them away. most of the time i never get by a couple of months before i half to use them again. the only thing i cant get going is a poulan saw,its getting fuel to carb but not through it.


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## wannabechef (Nov 20, 2012)

If the crank seals are bad it will start hard...


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## CarolT (Mar 12, 2009)

Around here, there are stations that carry no-ethanol gas. We try to use that in our 2 cycles. Maybe try that?


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## simi-steading (Sep 27, 2012)

Those old Mac saws are notorious for having pinched fuel lines when putting them back together... That could cause it to not want to pull fuel well into an empty line... Just a thought...


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## unregistered41671 (Dec 29, 2009)

simi-steading said:


> Those old Mac saws are notorious for having pinched fuel lines when putting them back together... That could cause it to not want to pull fuel well into an empty line... Just a thought...


I bought one used yrs ago. Cranked it and it ran good. Got it home and it would only run 30-40 seconds. I fooled with it a little and could not get it to run. Gave it to a friend and he replaced the fuel lines and it ran well. He wanted to sell me the saw for $80.00 We had a good laugh about that for years.


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## foxtrapper (Dec 23, 2003)

From your description, you're flooding the heck out of it when trying to start it after running out of gas. And, from your description, I suspect it's your priming. 

Any chainsaw will take several pulls of the string when being started from a dry shutdown. But the carburetor parts are small, and the gasoline gets up there pretty quickly.

Might I suggest that instead of priming it, you try starting it like you would for a normal cold start? As in choke only, no priming, pull until it burps, then choke off. I think you will find it starts better and more reliably.

And lastly, I finally got tired of spending time fighting old saws myself. I threw in the towel and bought a nice new one to replace the collection of old crotchety ones I had. I honestly do not regret it.


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## KMA1 (Dec 9, 2006)

Buy a german made Stihl.


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## jennigrey (Jan 27, 2005)

Next time I run it out (which may not happen for a while now), I'll try starting it as per usual, without pressing the priming bulb first.


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## jennigrey (Jan 27, 2005)

After you've flooded a saw, how do you un-flood it? After running it dry and subsequently flooding it, some of the things I have tried in the past include holding the throttle wide open and pulling it. I also took the spark plug out and let it set a while (a few hours) and then re-installed it and tried to start it.

After flooding it, I've left it overnight and come back the next day and tried my standard starting routine.


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## Bret4207 (May 31, 2008)

simi-steading said:


> Those old Mac saws are notorious for having pinched fuel lines when putting them back together... That could cause it to not want to pull fuel well into an empty line... Just a thought...



That is NOT an old Mcculloch. It's one of the newer Chinese/Taiwan types.


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## Bret4207 (May 31, 2008)

If it's flooding so bad the gas is running out the muffler then the issue is that you're flooding it. A warm saw doesn't need priming usually, even when you run it dry. Try doing as suggested and not using the primer.


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## jennigrey (Jan 27, 2005)

Cold saw. I only run it dry to store it. Then a couple weeks later, refill and prime a few times.

I'll leave the priming bulb alone next time. I sure never touch it for a standard start.


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## Bret4207 (May 31, 2008)

It may be the primer is just pouring the gas in. A weak spring on the needle or a bad valve seat will allow that. I have a similar issue with an ancient Stihl 041. After 5 pulls the fuel just pours past the needle! If it starts in 3 pulls I'm good till it stops, otherwise I'm toast. Have to pull the carb apart and fix it soon.


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## jennigrey (Jan 27, 2005)

Monday I'll call McCulloch and see if a shop manual is available. I usually do my own wrenching. I made an exception for the saw because I _thought_ it would be more expedient - just this once - to pay a pro to do the job so I could spend my time _using_ the tool rather than _working_ on the tool. Lesson learned. Better to take the time to learn how to do it yourself. Teach a man to fish, etcetera etcetera.


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## wannabechef (Nov 20, 2012)

jennigrey said:


> Monday I'll call McCulloch and see if a shop manual is available. I usually do my own wrenching. I made an exception for the saw because I _thought_ it would be more expedient - just this once - to pay a pro to do the job so I could spend my time _using_ the tool rather than _working_ on the tool. Lesson learned. Better to take the time to learn how to do it yourself. Teach a man to fish, etcetera etcetera.


Likely nothing can be done to a lower line saw except replace the carb...thy are designed to be cheap, used and thrown away. May I suggest buying a higher end product that comes with support, parts and technical.


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## Bret4207 (May 31, 2008)

jennigrey said:


> Monday I'll call McCulloch and see if a shop manual is available. I usually do my own wrenching. I made an exception for the saw because I _thought_ it would be more expedient - just this once - to pay a pro to do the job so I could spend my time _using_ the tool rather than _working_ on the tool. Lesson learned. Better to take the time to learn how to do it yourself. Teach a man to fish, etcetera etcetera.


I can find nothing on the 3514 saw- and I mean NOTHING! I did however find a parts breakdown for the 3516 saw. I'm going to take the risk of assuming they are the same basic saw. If so it has a Zama carb, the model number will be etched or stamped into the carb body. It's likely a CU carb. Kits are available and Zamas website has rebuild info. Alternatively you can probably replace the entire carb for under $40.00. Zama carbs are not expensive. That type carb is common on weedwhackers, low end chainsaws, leaf blowers etc.

Here's as close as I could come on a parts breakdown- http://www.barrettsmallengine.com/partslist/mccullochpartslist211318.pdf


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## foxtrapper (Dec 23, 2003)

jennigrey said:


> After you've flooded a saw, how do you un-flood it?


Two strokes are not the easiest to unflood. A wankel is worse, but a standard crankcase ventilated 2-stroke holds its own on difficulty.

Standard semi-effective technique is to remove the spark plug, leave it plugged it and let it rest against something so it can spark. Throttle wide open, choke off, yank the string a number of times. Like 20 or so. 

The objective is two-fold. One is to simply spray the gasoline out through the spark plug hole. The second is to make the spark plug actually spark. A wet spark plug will short through the wetness and not spark.

Caviat, doing this can result in a momentary fireball out through the spark plug hole. So don't do this with the saw in dry grass. It's a little startling if and when this happens, but it's not particularly dangerous. 

Once you've blown stuff out, and the spark plug is dry and sparking, try restarting the saw with no choke and no priming. There's still going to be a fair bit of excess gasoline in the crankcase, so it's pretty likely to burp a bit just on this alone.


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## jennigrey (Jan 27, 2005)

I sure appreciate all of the ideas, thoughts and advice. After I got my saw back from the shop this last time I used it for a couple of hours, refilling it at regular intervals. When I got done using it, I just shut it off and didn't lean it out like I used to. A couple days later I went to use it and it fired right up. Since then, I yarded out a few logs and have used the saw quite a bit in the last four days. Yesterday, however, it suddenly started losing power and smoking. Within a minute or so it worsened to the point that it wouldn't idle. Then it died and I couldn't restart it.

Thanks to advice received here (and a hefty portion of frustration-induced "I DON'T CARE WHAT HAPPENS TO THIS SAW ANYMORE"), I dug in and got to the carb (a Zama, Bret4207). I took the plate and circular diaphragm off one end, bled what fuel I could out of it. Took out the spark plug and cleaned and dried it. Put the carb back together and all of the plastic parts. Shot a hit of ether into the hole and put the spark plug back in, recapped it. It fired right off and ran for another couple of logs, then did the same thing. I did the little song-and-dance and again the saw fired up and ran but this time it idled way too high and soon thereafter it died.

I think I will try replacing the carb. If that doesn't do the trick, I'll probably shelve the saw. The auto-oiler doesn't work so I'm having to oil it manually. Wish I could afford a new saw.


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## texican (Oct 4, 2003)

Old saws don't really love new gas... they weren't made or designed to run on alcohol. You might want to find a fuel dealer (marina? or one that services marine engines) that stocks alcohol free gasoline.

I've never heard of 'not running them out of fuel'. My last saw was 18 years old when I cratered it with the tractor (Stihl 025)... always ran it to dry. [Engine still ran, even after crushing]

I've got a stack of Poulans, Mac's, and Stihls... and prefer the Stihls. Imho, there's no such thing as a 'free saw'. Acquired a 'free one' last fall (a 20 year old Stihl)... researched its probs and found it needed a 40$ part. Hesitant about ordering it, in case it has 'other issues' too!


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## jennigrey (Jan 27, 2005)

This saw was gifted to me at Christmas. Mom bought it off Craigslist. The guy started it up for her in the Wal-Mart parking lot and it seemed to run fine. Now I think I could get it to run well enough to pull the wool over someone else's eyes, if I were the low-down, slimy sort.

The premix I was using from the hardware store is alcohol-free.


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## solidwoods (Dec 23, 2005)

Never never use ether on any internal combustion engine. It's the Kiss of death.
jim


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## jennigrey (Jan 27, 2005)

Is starting fluid not made of ether anymore? I used starting fluid.


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## foxtrapper (Dec 23, 2003)

jennigrey said:


> ...took the plate and circular diaphragm off one end...


That's the fuel pump, just so you know. And those little flappers, those are the one-way valves that pump the gasoline up and into the carburetor. The carburetor itself is the part with the thingie that moves when you pull the throttle trigger on the handle. 

Starting fluid is still ether. A bit rough on engines, particularly 2-strokes, but not the end of the world either. 

Something you didn't mention was the air filter. Did you clean that? A saw going weak and smoking after "quite a bit" of use is fairly indicative of a dirty air filter restricting air, causing the engine to be getting a overly rich mixture. If you're cleaning with a brush, and not compressed air blowing it out from the inside, there's a fair chance the filter is still quite restricted.

I don't really go along with your thinking of simply replacing the carburetor. At least not yet. 

If this were my saw, we'd be down to just a few last things before I threw the saw against a wall. 

Carburetor rebuild kit (~$5). Take the carburetor off the saw, clean it thoroughly with a spray can of carburetor cleaner (wear safety glasses! That stuff burns like the dickens if you get it in your eyes). Replace the gaskets with new ones from the kit. Make sure to remove the mixture screws and clean those passages out. It only takes a spec of screw them up. This is a good link for understanding the carburetor, and how to set it after you clean it. http://store.chainsawr.com/blogs/tu...djustment-and-tuning-of-a-chainsaw-carburetor

New spark plug (~$3). A spark plug that has seen regular fouling is quite prone to a phenomina called carbon tracking, where the electricity runs along the surface, instead of creating a spark across the gap.

New clunker for the fuel tank (~$10). This is the thingie that lives on the end of the fuel line in the tank. It's also a fuel filter. When it gets plugged up, your mixture tends to go lean and screws up setting the carburetor correctly.

A foot or two of fuel line (~$6). Just replace it. You'll probably damage the old line trying to replace the clunker. The old type lines tend to swell half shut from the ethanol anyways, and they do get brittle. 

Muffler cleaning (free). Pull it off, open it up (if possible) and clean out the carbon that's probably covering everything. Pay close attention to a screen that is likely in there! Make sure it's not blinded with carbon.

At that point, the saw would be at the end of the line for me, generally speaking. Sure, it's fixable. Anything is fixable. But the cost of fixing it vs the cost of replacing it with a new saw becomes prohibitive.


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## jennigrey (Jan 27, 2005)

The reason that I was jumping straight for replacing the carb is that the guy at the shop allegedly replaced the diaphragms, the fuel lines, the spark plug and the fuel filter the first time I had it in. I have not cleaned the air filter and I don't remember him mentioning it. I will clean that out or replace it.

I'm not sure how much I trust what he said he did to the saw. I will consider replacing the consumables before replacing the carb.


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## foxtrapper (Dec 23, 2003)

You sure are a game one on this. I tip my hat to you for your determination. 

Cleaning the air filter clear is a daily maintenance item for chainsaws. 

As well taking the bar off, cleaning the grove the chain rides in, and flipping it when you reinstall it. Wouldn't be surprised if this is the root of your oiling problem actually. But lets get the saw running reliably.

Here are a few links I've found that will likely help you with this saw.

This is the owners manual for a Mcculloch 3514:
http://lawnandgarden.manualsonline.com/manuals/mfg/mcculloch/m3414.html?idRes=16407498

A Mcculloch tech library:
http://www.puresimplicity.net/~heviarti/tsl.html

Another Mcculloch tech library:
http://macbobaust.com/saws1.html

And a small Mcculloch chainsaw thread from many chainsaw owners who have them (and love/hate them):
http://www.arboristsite.com/chainsaw-stickies/218770.htm


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## Bret4207 (May 31, 2008)

jennigrey said:


> The reason that I was jumping straight for replacing the carb is that the guy at the shop allegedly replaced the diaphragms, the fuel lines, the spark plug and the fuel filter the first time I had it in. I have not cleaned the air filter and I don't remember him mentioning it. I will clean that out or replace it.
> 
> I'm not sure how much I trust what he said he did to the saw. I will consider replacing the consumables before replacing the carb.


When I do a carb job, I do the whole carb. Everything comes off and out including the welch plugs. All the passages get solvent and air and it get's put back together and test run till it works right. Even after all that some carbs just get so gunked up in the passages that they won't work right. The diaphragm (there's only one) is a piece that moves from crankcase pressure to pull the needle back to let gas into the engine, the fuel pump is on the other side and also works off crankcase pressure. You need to check any lines or boots that may exist to see if they are cracked and leaking pressure or vacuum. Fuel lines can collapse and cause problems too but you say he replaced them. A new carb will not fix a leaking boot or impulse line.

A complete carb kit is going to run $15.00 or so these days. Setting it properly, if it can be set right at all, will run another $15-20.00 in labor anyway at a shop.


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## solidwoods (Dec 23, 2005)

KMA1 said:


> Buy a german made Stihl.


Ditto.
I did the disposable chainsaw purchase thing for years. I noticed they last about 2yrs then problems start. Wasting time energy and dollars chasing repairs.
Saved up my lunch money and purchased a Stihl. (any high quality saw works all though there are few to choose from,, Stihl invented the chainsaw and Germans make top quality machinery).
What we forget or don't want to factor is the time and energy wasted trying to get low cost tools to work. Buy quality for life.
I sawmill/kiln dry and manufacture flooring to furniture for a living. I use a chainsaw about 6 days a week 52 weeks per year.
You purchase a Stihl saw appropriate size for the work you do and I guarantee you will love it and it will make the cheap saws look like chumps.

Just don't:
Run it out of fuel.
Use starting fluid.
Use any 2cycle oil other than Sthil.
Make the gas/oil ratio anything but what the mfr. says.
Use used motor oil for bar lube. 

Also I finnaly tried an electric chain sharpener (the chop saw type) and I love it. I get just as much chain life as I did sharpening with a round file. Also it keeps the teeth exactly the same length which can be a problem hand filing.
Also it allows perfect uniform lowering of the depth limiters which one cannot do by hand.

I sharpen planer/jointer knives and bandsaw blades also for a living.
jim


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## Cabin Fever (May 10, 2002)

KMA1 said:


> Buy a german made Stihl.


 I would agree with this if you can find a used one. As far as new ones go, only the top two models (professional models) are still made in Germany. I am sure they sell for close to $1000 bucks.


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## simi-steading (Sep 27, 2012)

jennigrey said:


> Is starting fluid not made of ether anymore? I used starting fluid.


Starting fluid is NOT good to use on a two cycle engine.. If you must use something to start it with, you're better off using WD-40.. it at least has some lubrication in it.


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## simi-steading (Sep 27, 2012)

BTW, have you by chance looked inside the cylinder to see if there are any scratches or scores in the wall or piston? I've seen saws that would run if they were damaged, but they usually weren't much fun to start... Check especially on the exhaust side of the engine..


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