# Helping a kid be a self-directed learner



## frazzlehead (Aug 23, 2005)

Background first:

My son is 12, and has done very well in school the past few years - coasting, by his own admission, and yet getting honours every year, without even really trying.

This year, we pulled him from regular school & he is doing 'virtual school' (entirely online delivery, with teachers at the other end doing all the marking etc). We are very happy with the curriculum and the teachers and the school itself.

The Boy was very adamant that he didn't need a lot of structure and planning ... so we let him go with weekly targets and he could adjust his work to fit, so long as he delivered. He started slipping and missing targets. So, we rejigged the schedule, and made daily targets, focused more on interim deliverables (sorry, I do project management work, the terminology creeps in!) ... so things like "half of LA assignment 4 by today, turn in LA assignment 4 tomorrow". That seemed to be working pretty well. However, he is falling further and further behind ... so we're doing even more detailed planning (this task should take two hours: do that, then let's see where you are at). However, he has a two hour job (which is a generous estimate) and three hours later he is still not done, and he swears he has been trying HARD THE WHOLE TIME (and it is almost certainly true).

He is still getting good marks, but when he loses marks, it is for things like not being thorough enough in his answers - he kinda 'skims' the material, puts in what seems like a good enough answer, and quits. His work is not at all up to the standards I know he is capable of. However, he HONESTLY believes he is trying his hardest. He doesn't seem to be purposely slacking, overly distracted, or 'puttering' ... he just has no concept of how to apply himself to learn things.

We had formal testing done recently,and he is 'above average' pretty much across the board, with no real notable defecits besides doing math-on-paper (but he is several grade levels ahead in doing math-in-his-head, so he compensates). Excellent verbal and written comprehension, grade 12 problem solving skills (!) etc etc.... but* he is so used to just saying "Umm, teacher? I don't get it..." and having someone point him in the direction of the right answer that he hasn't twigged to the idea that he could actually figure it out for himself if he gave it 10 minutes' effort.*

Today, he asked my husband (who supervises the day to day schooling) a question. So as not to hand over the answers, dh asks, what is the definition of this term? The Boy goes and looks it up in his course material ... and the answer he was looking for is right there. Why didn't you look that up before you asked me? _Well, I didn't think it would be there. _

He didn't even TRY. But if you said "you aren't trying", he would burst into tears and insist that he is trying REALLY HARD. He believes it. For that matter, I believe he is trying. He's just not ... trying the right things ... or ... something.

*How do we help him unlearn the habit of being spoon fed? *How do we help him see that he has it in him to succeed, if he would only try some new strategies (i.e. other than asking someone to spoon feed him the answers)? How do we help him figure out those strategies?

He is a good kid, and very bright. He knows how well he did on his standardized testing - we have said, "we know you are capable of this, so maybe you need to try different ways of working". He insists he is trying as hard as he can. I have said, it's not about trying HARDER it's about doing DIFFERENTLY. But ... doing what differently?

Can someone help me figure out some 'key phrases' or strategies that might help this kid realize that he has the power to 'figure it out' ... and that this is actually what school and learning is SUPPOSED to be about?

I am contemplating watching him do an assignment, and then making notes ... then discussing his current strategies & seeing where they can be tweaked. I dunno how well he'd take that, and I'm hoping to find something less intrusive to attempt first.

I am also willing to let him fall on his face if that's what it takes ... but oh, it's hard to do. 

So, I've come to the experts! Suggestions??


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## ErinP (Aug 23, 2007)

I'm not sure how this will work with the online thing, but I happen to think part of teaching a child to be self-directed is teaching them what kind of questions they need to ask. 
"I don't get this." is not a question. 

To that end, I've always taught by questioning. "Tell me what's happening in this experiment. Why do you think it might be doing that?" 
"Who is the main character of our story? What is the dilema? How did he resolve it? Why do you suppose he did it that way?"

And so on. 

When a kid is particularly baffled I'll ask very leading questions. 
"Mrs. P? I don't get this. Where are pigs grown? How should _I_ know??" (I'm in ag. today)

So I'll ask a leading question based on other things they probably know. 
"Well what do pigs eat?"
"corn"

"OK, so if they're eating corn, we probably should be pretty close to corn, right? What states grow a lot of corn?" since I know they already know this one.


"Oh! Illinois, Iowa and Nebraska?" 
"Good deduction, guys. Illinois, Iowa and North Carolina are the top three for pork." 


I think that by teaching with questions, kids are learning to ask themselves these things so that they won't need so much external assistance.
But like I said, I'm not sure how to do that with an online program...


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## Vashti (Dec 22, 2006)

Perhaps playing some games that are strategy puzzle games like Myst or Riven or something like that would get him in the midset to search for answers and "clues" in his work. You can also create situations yourself where he has to "search" for an answer and really praise him well when he succeeds. Let him know how awesome it feels to find an answer yourself without having someone spoon feed it to you. 

You found that all by yourself - you are such a genius!
Well done! I bet you had to really look hard in the story for the answer to that question.
etc.


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## Vashti (Dec 22, 2006)

Oooh Erin is a genius...that's the way!


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## cindy-e (Feb 14, 2008)

Erin has some really good suggestions. I think also, teaching basic study skills would be a good thing. Outlining, self-made study guides, research skills... basically how to find and remember information. If school was too easy before, he may honestly not know that. Lots of kids get through school without having to learn how to study at all. 
With the time management thing, for the online school we do this year, what we had to do was to give them a timer and a schedule. They work on each subject during it's assigned time. If they are not done with the assignment at the end of that time, they have to move on anyway. The remainder of the assignment is "homework" to be done after official school hours. In my house, I gotta tell you that made them work a whole lot faster! They were working hard before, but I guess they were taking their time. Now they can get it done in the alloted time. Their grades have actually improved, not slipped since we made that change.

Hope that helps,
Cindyc.


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## ErinP (Aug 23, 2007)

> Lots of kids get through school without having to learn how to study at all.


I agree. 
I was one of them. 

It had nothing to do with being spoonfed and everything to do with the fact that schools are designed to educate the norm. Those of us who tend to run above that norm are either high achievers or lazy and/or unfocused. 
It wasn't until I was a sophomore in college and taking Dr. Lawson's General Bio (famous for flunking at least half of the class) that I actually _had_ to study for a class. 
I was one of 4 out of a starting class of 60 who aced it, btw. 
(not that I'm still proud or anything of that little nugget after 15 yrs... lol)
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

I agree with cindy's idea of a timer. Personally, I like the count-down ones. I've used it for younger kids to keep them on track as it's such a visible reminder of where they're at and what still needs to be done in this amount of time...

That is another problem my son is having, actually. He only has two classes worth of work, so he has "all day to get it done" and twitters away his time. Any seat-work I give him will be accompanied by a timer.


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## frazzlehead (Aug 23, 2005)

thank you all for your suggestions!

We had a really good conversation the other night. We defined the problems (missing deadlines, trouble knowing what the expected results are for various things, not knowing how to work through a section of a course, etc) and came up with some plans.

We defined 'what a good answer contains' - the proper terminology from your texts, a definition and an example ... usually at least two of the three are going to be needed for an answer (in the kind of work he's doing that's true right now). We discussed how to get clarification on what you are supposed to do (send your teacher your idea of what you think the assignment is asking, and then ask if you are correct ... but you have to at least make a suggestion of what it's for). We explained that his parents will help him word questions to send to his teachers, but we won't give him any answers (and we will use the ask-a-question-to-lead-to-the-answer strategy as well, that's a good one). And we made up a strategy for working with his materials: read the overview first, then the assignment, then the detailed reading, then do the assignment. 

We analyzed what he had done the previous day - a job that shouldn't have taken more than maybe 1.5 hours took closer to 3.5 ... and he could not explain why. So we talked about how to a different approach to the work and a bit more focus could mean that he was done early instead of late!

Then we sat down and estimated each job that was on the list for the next day. He now has to complete everything assigned for that day, even if it means 'homework' in the evening. If something turns out to be more complicated than we expected when we estimated it, he can negotiate a delay, but he can't just leave it be. If he meets his targets for everything this week, we will celebrate on Sunday (we have another reason to go into the city that day, and while we are there we can do a nice dinner or something to celebrate the success).

He worked really hard yesterday (first full day on the new strategy) and although he overlooked one 'to do' on his list and consequently spent longer on a different task than he would've had he been fully aware of all his jobs, he DID buckle down and finish everything, even though it meant most of his evening. He's got two fairly big tasks on the go today, but he's down there working hard already. 

I think un-moveable targets are the key for him: "this needs to be done by the end of today and if it isn't you have to work on it tonight" seems to be motivating him.

We'll see how it goes ... thanks all for your suggestions!


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## Newsteader (Nov 29, 2008)

Excellent suggestions in this thread. The child in the OP reminds me of mine. I won't get into it for now as this is my first post and I am enjoying reading and learning so far. I have learned a lot already, thanks all.


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## Peacock (Apr 12, 2006)

WOW -- you were right, I needed to read this thread. 

That is my kid. Actually, both of my kids are like this. My daughter, a little less, but still way too eager to be handed the answers instead of finding them herself. 

She's gotten better this year, though. I think it just made her a little too angry that no matter how good her grades are, she wasn't qualifying for the advanced classes -- they base that on achievement tests, and nobody can help you with those! 

Your post SO sounds like my kid -- like tonight's homework, in fact. He had a science worksheet, and all he had to do was find the right words in his textbook to fill in the blanks. First thing, he starts wailing "mom, I can't find any of these." Hello? The answers are right there - for heaven's sake, they're BOLD. Not just bold, they're bold and HIGHLIGHTED. 

He said something similar, he didn't think they'd be that easy to find. Yeah, it might have required actual reading comprehension.

The thing that was so frustrating, was that he already knew the answers, he didn't even really have to look them up in the book. What he needed to do was actually read the question. 

I said this in my other post about my son, but what I have discovered is this -- he really expects the stuff to be harder than it is. Doesn't seem to have the confidence that he CAN figure it out on his own. Doesn't seem to know that he CAN get good grades instead of mediocre ones - if something doesn't "click" right away he just assumes it's too hard for him and moves on. 

It's as if he doesn't have confidence that doing really well is even a possibility, hence he is too comfortable with "good enough."

I love Vashti's suggestion about the puzzles. I've thought about that myself -- when I was a kid I loved puzzles of all kinds, but my children don't seem to get into them. I wonder if doing more of them would help the kids' confidence and develop their skills for figuring things out on their own.


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