# water heater temp.



## Tilly (Oct 16, 2007)

Hubby and I are trying to reduce our energy usage. We have followed advice on this forum, you guys are great, and have been happy with our results. The only thing we can't agree on is the water heater. It is natural gas. Hubby argues that if it is set at top temp, then we won't run out of hot water after one 15 min shower since the water temp can be brought down when mixed with cold and use less hot. All our bathtubs/showers have those scald guard faucets, but at the sinks, the hot water is an instant burn!!! I've always heard to lower your temp to save energy, but hubby is insistent that we will run out of hot water all the time and waste energy with it always trying to heat up to demand. BTW, he is gone this week, so I turned it down to 120, but as soon as he gets back, he'll turn it right back up. So, everyone give me some great logic to win hubby over with, ok?


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## Jim-mi (May 15, 2002)

. . . .'Reduce our energy usage".

chuckle . . .Can you convince hubby to take shorter showers.

I fail to see the logic of making the water super hot and then adding cold to make it "just right" . . .????????????

You are going to have fun convincing him that he's "incorrect"

----st.....shorter showers


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## Tilly (Oct 16, 2007)

That's what I was afraid of.....


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## Jim-mi (May 15, 2002)

LOL . . . . well you asked . . . .

goodluck


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## Jerry in MN (Dec 2, 2007)

Would a low flow shower head help any?


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## donsgal (May 2, 2005)

I'm with your hubby on that one. I"d rather have my water at 150 so that I don't run out of water when I take a bath. Unfortunately, I can only get my electric water heater up to 140 if I turn it up higher it flips the breaker! LOL

Keep in mind also that I wash raw wool and you need a minimum of 140 for that (150 would be even better!) So I am not 100 percent objective. 

donsgal


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## georgec (Jul 9, 2007)

I can see the logic in turning the temperature up on a small hot water heater, so that you can get more than one shower before the hot water is gone. The reason for lowering the temperature of a water heater has nothing to do with use. It is the heat loss that you are trying to avoid. The hotter the temperature, the more heat you will lose. Heat loss is determined by the difference between the two temperatures (hot water and ambient), the higher the differential the more heat is lost. It is simple thermodynamics.


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## Ross (May 9, 2002)

Your water heater is designed to run at 140 and use a tempering valve to reduce the temp to 120 (which ain't very hot IMO) The recovery rate or ability to keep you supplied with hot water is based on that 140 so when you change it be dropping the temp you may not have enough hot water to get the job done. Isn't the point of having hot water that it's available in the first place? When operating outside the design limits it will lose efficiency so yeah dropping the temp is costing you.


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## Tilly (Oct 16, 2007)

Ok hubby wins...Thanks everyone!!!


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## georgec (Jul 9, 2007)

Ross said:


> When operating outside the design limits it will lose efficiency so yeah dropping the temp is costing you.


It doesn't really work this way. Water requires a certain amount of energy to raise the temperature 1 degree. It doesn't matter if you are heating from 100 to 101 or 140 to 141.

http://www.eere.energy.gov/consumer/your_home/water_heating/index.cfm/mytopic=13090
"For each 10ÂºF reduction in water temperature, you can save between 3%â5% in energy costs." Is a direct quote from this article.


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## Lisa in WA (Oct 11, 2004)

Tell him to get a tankless water heater and he'll never run out of hot water.


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## vallyfarm (Oct 24, 2006)

I run mine at 110 and have no problems with a cool shower. I know some people like to have 3rd degree burns when they are done washing their hair, but that insn't healthy for the skin, or for older folks their heart. Being a guy, I've never needed more than 10 min to shower...even after cleaning barns or doing hay. What exactly takes so long to do? A little efficency at shower time can help alot with cutting down on energy use. Why does he want scalding water sitting around all day not getting used, just colling and getting re-heated over and over? Mike


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## Ross (May 9, 2002)

In order to function within the water heater's designed rating providing hot water it has to be set correctly. I you set it high it runs in short cycles, if you set it low it starts up too soon and runs too long. Using a tempering valve increases the capacity of useable hot water, but so does manually mixing cold in at the tap


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## Liese (Dec 12, 2005)

Tilly, how about putting your water heater on a timer? Then you both win. We put the heater on 1 hr before Bob's shower, it stays on thru doing the dishes then off. So for us the water heater is "on" 3 hrs out of 24 and I always feel I have enough hot water thru the day. I should mention that our standard tank is a 30-35 gal. unit and we also provide about 10 gal. of warm water outside for the sheep, goats and chickens morning and evening.


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## Windy in Kansas (Jun 16, 2002)

Here is another thought---

Where is the hot water heater located, and what is the temperature of the water coming into the house? 

If the temperature of the incoming water can be raised two things happen; #1 less hot water will be needed to raise the temperature of the incoming cold water to a comfortable level. #2 with water slightly warmer to start with less fuel is needed to raise the heated water to the desired temperature.

If the water coming into the home is quite cold an uninsulated tempering tank might be beneficial if it can gain a few degrees of heat from the air in a basement or such. You would in actuality lower the air in the basement slightly, but probably not noticeably. 

If the water is quite cold it might be beneficial to have tempering tanks on both the cold side and just before the hot water heater. See #1 & #2.


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## crafty2002 (Aug 23, 2006)

The best thing to do is get it a jacket. They are sold at Lowes, etc and they do help. 
When I was remodeling this house before we bought it the owner had a new (10 years old but had never been hooked up) 100 gallon heater to install. I would never have installed it if I had know I was going to end up with the house but I am glad I did. 
It has a red light on it that shows when the heating elements are on and I noticed they were own a lot when no one was even using hot water. I bought a jacket for it and the light bill went down about $15 the first month and the weather was just about the same. And it is down in the basement/shop, which isn't heated except when I build a fire so I can work so it was loosing a lot of heat. 
I had almost a whole roll of R-30 insulation left over so I built a framed around the tank and insulated it right over top of the jacket I had put on it and just enclosed it with 1/4" OSB board. A $25 drop in the light bill the next month this time. 
My bills are still way too high but with that along with swapping out all the light bulbs for the CF lights I have dropped them from over $300 in the winter to $180 - $200 a month. 
If the tank is in a heated area of the house, the heat loss you loose from the heater is gained in heating the house but in my case it was just wasted big time. 
I could probably pay for a 40 or 50 gallon tank in a few months of what this monster cost me to keep it hot, but I have it turned down and with the volume of the tank, we still never run out. Even if we all three get showers back to back it still last. Those jackets do help a lot and the higher you have it set the more they help. 
Dennis


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## MELOC (Sep 26, 2005)

perhaps the savings comes into play by not heating the water to that high of a temp to begin with.


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## marvella (Oct 12, 2003)

another way of saving is by getting wet, turning off the water and sudsing up, then turn it back on to rinse off. there is a shower head made for this, i believe called something to do with the military. there's a button that slides back and fiorth to cut off the flow. it's a fraction of usage that way. no sense it letting it run the whole time. btw, my kids hate it.


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## greg273 (Aug 5, 2003)

marvella said:


> another way of saving is by getting wet, turning off the water and sudsing up, then turn it back on to rinse off. there is a shower head made for this, i believe called something to do with the military. there's a button that slides back and fiorth to cut off the flow. it's a fraction of usage that way. no sense it letting it run the whole time. btw, my kids hate it.


 I've had one of those low-flow showerheads for years and love it. Much more efficient use of water. You can buy them at any hardware store for under $5.


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## 12vman (Feb 17, 2004)

I use a low flow shower head also and it works well for us. And as Marvella states..
"Get wet.. Scrub up.. And rinse.."

I only use the pilot lite to heat the water in my tank. I use it direct and don't mix any cold with it. Perfect shower temperature and enough to support 2 adults a day..
~Don


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## Tilly (Oct 16, 2007)

It's a 40 gallon gas heater in the laundry room, right next to the furnace. I hate being in there when they are both on, too hot!!! We have one of those shut off shower heads in a box somewhere from our other house, still trying to move in for the last 7 months! I hadn't thought about the shower head until mentioned here, the ones we have now say low flow, but the other one 'feels' better. we have 4 kids under 10, so baths are going on at all odd hours, depending on who wet the bed, fell in the barn, etc...But a timer sounds like a great idea. I also checked out SolarGary's site for fun last night and learned a lot about solar hot water, when hubby gets home this weekend, I'll hit him up with some ideas from that site. I did temp the water last night with a thermometer and it is now set at 140. Thanks again everyone!

Tilly


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## SolarGary (Sep 8, 2005)

Hi,
A neighbor showed me his tankless water heater today.
One of the features it has is a remote control panel that you can use from anywhere in the house. One of the things it allows you to do is set the water temperature.

He was saying that he sets it to 117F for showers, and his wife uses 113F. 
Since it heats the water on the fly, you can get whatever temperature you want. Pretty neat.

It was a Takagi -- I was impressed with how small and how quiet it was.

There is a $300 gov rebate going on tankless heaters now.

Gary


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## raymilosh (Jan 12, 2005)

Tilly, From your posts, it sounds like you haven't ever tried turning it down to see if you run out of hot water.
If that's the case, I suggest you try it for a few days to see what happens. DH (and maybe you, too) may be surprised to find that you don't run out of hot water. 
If that happens, everybody wins... Less energy use, plenty of hot water. 
But do wrap it in insulation, either way. And do consider a tankless heater when the one you own dies. More free space, less energy use, never run out of hot water.


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## wy_white_wolf (Oct 14, 2004)

georgec said:


> It doesn't really work this way. Water requires a certain amount of energy to raise the temperature 1 degree. It doesn't matter if you are heating from 100 to 101 or 140 to 141.
> 
> http://www.eere.energy.gov/consumer/your_home/water_heating/index.cfm/mytopic=13090
> "For each 10ÂºF reduction in water temperature, you can save between 3%â5% in energy costs." Is a direct quote from this article.


While it may take the same to raise the temp 1 degree at any temperature, the savings comes from trying to maintain that temp.

When the room temp is 68 degrees, heating it to 100 is a 32 dgree differential. While heating it to 140 is a 72 dgree differential. The higher the differential the more enegy it takes to maintain it.

Another way of looking at it is that at a 32 degree differential it may take 1 minute to cool down 1 degree, But at a 72 degree differential it may only take 30 seconds to cool down that 1 degree. The faster it cools down the more often it has to turn on the heat to maintain that temp. 

Hope I put that in ways that could be understood.


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## Tilly (Oct 16, 2007)

When we moved here in july, we ran it at the recommended setting on the dial. Worked just fine until I took a bath one morning, hubby took a shower 5 minutes after I filled my tub, and he sent dd10 to turn up the dial all the way because he was getting a cool shower. Our water right now comes out of the tap at near freezing. The water in the fridge is about the same temp. We live in a very good area for solar, talked to hubby last night on the phone about pre-heating with solar, and he was very willing to try it. He loves to work on things around the house that can save money!! Maybe I should also have explained, his mother is a very "frail' older lady, she always had the house set at 80 degrees and would turn it up at night!! He has a hard time with anything 'cold', just another thing to tease him about.....


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## Liese (Dec 12, 2005)

SolarGary said:


> Hi,
> t.
> 
> It was a Takagi -- I was impressed with how small and how quiet it was.
> ...


Only for gas/propane, not electric :grump: bummer.


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## kermeg (Jan 11, 2005)

I believe the rebate ended in 2007?


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## canfossi (Sep 18, 2005)

I would turn it down to 119F and try it to see if you run out of hot water. That's what mine's at. Also, put a water heater jacket around it, install water saving faucets and tell your husband to reduce his showers. Chris


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## SolarGary (Sep 8, 2005)

kermeg said:


> I believe the rebate ended in 2007?


Hi,
Yes, I checked and it did end at the end of 2007. I understand there is an effort to get it going again.

Some states might have rebates or tax breaks still going -- mine does.
http://www.builditsolar.com/References/energyincentivesrs.htm

Gary


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## OntarioMan (Feb 11, 2007)

Renting water heaters is popular where I'm at - i.e. they're rented from the utility company. Recently, our utility company has started with the on-demand water heater rentals. Although renting is more expensive than purchasing, they do any/all repairs for the life of the unit. I don't yet know the details here, but I'm going to look into it.



SolarGary said:


> ... There is a $300 gov rebate going on tankless heaters now.
> 
> Gary


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## AnnieinBC (Mar 23, 2007)

Hello all, There are some very interesting thoughts on this subject!! I don't see the point of using power to heat water than using cold water to cool it down. that is a waste. We have a good quality, John Woods tank, aprox 70 gal, electric. I installed a 240 volt timer on it about a month ago. After playing with the timer several days we now have it set to turn on for about 1hr, 20 min per day. we have enough hot water for two showers, a couple loads of laundry,washing dishes, and there is still plenty of hot left over. I will not know the energy savings till the next bill comes, but I am expecting to save 25 - 30 a month. I hope


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