# Organic Disease Management



## countrymouse (Nov 9, 2004)

I am part of a co-op and many of the members are dead set on organic practices. We have mild Varroa issues and deal with them well through sanitation/monitoring, but the inspector has confirmed _Nosema ceranae_ in one of our hives that didn't make it through the winter. 

Personally, I doubt that we'll contain this Nosema through cultural practices, but I'd like to keep my group as happy as possible. Not to mention avoiding the rising price of bees!

Do any of you manage diseases organically and if so what are good methods or reliable sources of info--preferably something researched by an organization or school (please no posts about your brother-in-law putting Drano crystals in his smoker or such chicanery.)


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## indypartridge (Oct 26, 2004)

It seems to me that a number of well-known beeks who have been strongly advocating for natural IPM methods are
reluctantly reaching the conclusion that, in the face of nosema ceranae, Fumilgilin-B treatments may be the best answer. I know one article was in the Dec 07 Bee Culture:
http://www.beeculture.com/storycms/index.cfm?cat=Story&recordID=564


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## Beltane (Nov 27, 2005)

I'm new to bees so I've been reading everything I can get my hands on. I really liked Ross Conrad's Organic Beekeeping book.


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## Durandal (Aug 19, 2007)

Beltane said:


> I'm new to bees so I've been reading everything I can get my hands on. I really liked Ross Conrad's Organic Beekeeping book.


I have not read Conrad's book.

What does he say to do in this situation?


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## dcross (Aug 12, 2005)

If the hive is empty, 120 deg. F for 24 hrs. has been shown to kill the spores. There's also fumigating with acetic acid, but I'm not sure how that would qualify for organic. 

What sanitation are you using to control varroa mites?


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## Durandal (Aug 19, 2007)

dcross said:


> If the hive is empty, 120 deg. F for 24 hrs. has been shown to kill the spores. There's also fumigating with acetic acid, but I'm not sure how that would qualify for organic.
> 
> What sanitation are you using to control varroa mites?


Was this directed at me? Just curious. Won't have my hives for about a another month, give or take, but if the evening temps get above 40 degrees I have two cut outs planned, so I might be able to get some in hand prior to my nucs being ready.

Fingers crossed.

I am still out on the whole completely organic beekeeping method and regressing them back to small cell bees. From what I hear its a big pain in the rear and not something I need to worry about my first season.

We'll see what the feral colony is doing on their own. I'll measure their cells, make notes and then maybe let them draw their own frames without foundation and keep 'em where they are at.

From what I hear its next to impossible to keep large cell bees without chemical treatments of some kind, whether it be powder sugar, mineral /syrup concoctions, or pesticides.


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## countrymouse (Nov 9, 2004)

dcross said:


> If the hive is empty, 120 deg. F for 24 hrs. has been shown to kill the spores. There's also fumigating with acetic acid, but I'm not sure how that would qualify for organic.
> 
> What sanitation are you using to control varroa mites?


dcross: What's your source on the 120/acetic acid info? I'd like to read more about it. 

As far as Varroa goes, we have found that keeping our equipment & beeyard clean along with mite control bottom boards seem to keep our mite problems tolerable. Also we drop a pinch of tobacco in the smoker (not sure if the nicotine hurts the bees--or the mites for that matter.) As I stated in my original post we have "mild Varroa issues"; I would reckon that our standard of control would be undesirable for many beekeepers.

Thank you for all of your replies. Fortunately for us this is not about making a living, but about enjoying the hobby. I'm not an evolutionary biologist, but I know that if every beekeeper starts dosing their colonies with antibiotics twice a year the selection pressure tips Nosema's gene pool toward resistance. As our stakes are pretty low, we have the luxury of opting out and trying to manage things w/o Fumiligin. Maybe we'll drop Conrad a line and see what he's doing.


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## indypartridge (Oct 26, 2004)

Durandal said:


> I have not read Conrad's book.
> 
> What does he say to do in this situation?


I finished reading his book this weekend (wife found it on the "new books" shelf at the library). 

Regarding _nosema_, Conrad mentions _nosema apis_, but not the much more recent (to the U.S.) _nosema ceranae_. Basically, since antibiotics are verboten for an organic operation, his recommendation is to keep healthy hives, i.e., employ practices which focus on keeping healthy bees. 

This coincides with what Michael Bush recommends:
http://www.bushfarms.com/beespests.htm#nosema


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## dcross (Aug 12, 2005)

Durandal said:


> Was this directed at me? Just curious.


No, Countrymouse! Just curious myself


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## dcross (Aug 12, 2005)

Countrymouse:

http://www.scientificbeekeeping.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=56

"Combs can instead be sterilized (of N. apis) by heating to the lower temperature of 120Â°F (49Â°C) for a longer period of 24 hours (Cantwell & Shimanuki 1969), "

"Even heating to 120Â°F may not be necessary. Malone found that storage of N. apis spores for even 5 days at 104Â°F (40Â°C) substantially decreased their infectivity! 

Another proven method to fumigate combs is with concentrated acetic acid (the âactive ingredientâ of vinegar). This is a time-honored practice that is mentioned in all the bee books"

All sorts of good info there, scroll down to "Comb Disinfection"

Or start here: http://www.scientificbeekeeping.com//index.php


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## ET1 SS (Oct 22, 2005)

dcross said:


> If the hive is empty, 120 deg. F for 24 hrs. has been shown to kill the spores. There's also fumigating with acetic acid, but I'm not sure how that would qualify for organic.
> 
> What sanitation are you using to control varroa mites?


We produce vinegar.

Acetic acid can be organic.


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## dcross (Aug 12, 2005)

ET1 SS said:


> We produce vinegar.
> 
> Acetic acid can be organic.



Even at the concentrations used to fumigate beehives?


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## ET1 SS (Oct 22, 2005)

Vinegar at 5% acetic acid is considered the standard by the FDA for food preservation and fumigating.

However organic acetic acid can be produced at concentrations up to 95%.


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