# Men, how do you feel about........



## Laura Zone 5 (Jan 13, 2010)

Question for the men......

Read a profile on POF where a man 'humorously' rants about women.
How he wanted a woman that is bat spit crazy, doesn't work, doesn't have a car, checks his phone, etc.
Sounds like this poor dude has run up on some bad women!!

So my question is this:

How much do men want women to work outside the home?
Full time (40+ hours a week)
Part time (30 hours a week)
Very part time (under 20 hours a week)

Would you prefer a woman who is home, (more 'traditional' role; dinner ready, house kept, takes care of animals/gardens etc) or a woman who works 5-6 days a week?

This curious gal wants to know!


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## WolfWalksSoftly (Aug 13, 2004)

I would prefer traditional, but I know different financial circumstances makes that hard to do with some. In the past, I didn't have a problem cleaning or cooking to keep things going smoothly when my partner also worked.


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## FarmboyBill (Aug 19, 2005)

The PROBLEM with TRADITIONAL, is that TRADITIONAL means a thing that was done/started by our forbears, our grandfolks and further back.
In THIS instance were talking about our female ancestors, our grandmoms and GGMs.
Yes, as you said, they stayed at home cooking, cleaning, gardening, canning, keeping the chickens fed/watered/eggs gathered, ect.
BUT NOW, in the last couple generations we have women in country settings that have lived in town. Are used to running down to the store/mall at any instance to get a item they think they need. Maybe making several trips a day. Maybe taking the kids to the zoo, shore, musieum, out to eat, ECT. Grandma DIDNT do that. She stayed home. Most couldn't drive, although my grandma could. NOW< A L L women can drive. Most people have at least one vehicle for each member of the family legally able to drive. WOMEN D O N T HAVE TO STAY HOME ALL DAY, EVERY DAY. 

So,
That being said. The above blows the term TRADITIONAL, out of the picture.


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## FarmboyBill (Aug 19, 2005)

BECAUSE, I found out what TODAYS womans meaning of TRADITIONAL iss, WHILE I WAS WORKING< Ida qwanted a woman to work as much as I did outside the home. That way I knew she wasn't blowing money driving all over the country outa boredom staying home, but working to make money same as I was,
NOW,
Being retired, Id rather have a woman stay at home, BUT could live if she wanted to work out yet.


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## Laura Zone 5 (Jan 13, 2010)

(insert heavy deep sigh) Ok, FBB, I said "more traditional" not 'back in the stone age'.

I will try to be more specific.

Do men prefer a woman, who works 40+ hours a week, 5-6 days a week, 8-10 hours a day (including drive time) who contributes financially MORE THAN she contributes in a 'more traditional way' ( cooking, with running water and electricity, cleaning, with running water, gardening, canning with electricity, tending to animals, etc)

Or the other way around

OR a gal who works part time and fulfills a more traditional role.

I sure hope that helps bring some clairity to my question. Oy.


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## quadrants2 (Apr 2, 2005)

The problem with the views in today's society is this...
If a man wants a woman who is traditional or he wants an 'old fashioned' way of gender roles he is often portrayed as chauvinistic or that he doesn't think women are equal. But if he wants her to work and bring home a paycheck and share in the chores than it could be said he doesn't 'take care of her'. Society has put men in a unique position because of this. 
My thoughts are this...
I would love to have a woman that shares traditional gender roles and wants to stay home and not work outside the home but if the wants and needs of her of the couple exceed the man's paycheck than maybe a part time job would be good. 
Ben Franklin says " diminish your wants or augment your means".. .
Finally..I think part time could almost always be a good thing. Keeps her independent with pocket money, keeps her interacting with others on a social level, and generally gives her a chance to be her...meaning...my mom always thought she lost her identity by always being the wife or the Mom and thought she lost 'her' for awhile. Bottom line..
Life is complicated and this is certainly one of those conversations that a couple needs to have early on in the getting to know you period.


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## FarmboyBill (Aug 19, 2005)

GREAT. We talk about wanting women OR men to live a life off grid, No conveniences as we know them, and that's good convo, BUT I talk about women as they were in my grand moms time, were in the stone age.
Sounds like
Your trying to dodge the fact that women want to stay home and not work out, BUT, don't want to be tied to the home every day hubbys gone to work, but rather get out, get away from the house, do something different from time to time, go see something different. WHILE their hubbys working in a giant warehouse where HE CANT, get out, get away from the warehouse, do something different from time to time, go see something different.
ARE YOU trying to avoid the fact that the equations ARENT equal?


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## cindilu (Jan 27, 2008)

Well now that you guys are talking about the meat of the subject I can see some of my problems from past and now also present. 

When I was married a long long long time ago I was traditional. The wife that stayed home, did the cooking, cleaning, having dinner ready when the guy came home from work. I had kids to take care of and stayed busy with just trying to raise his and mine, get everything done and homeschool as well. For the record when I say clean I really do mean that. They got to come home to a house that was clean, the coat taken off to warm back up by the fire, etc. It didn't work out. 

Fast forward to now and I work 40 plus hours a day. Before taking the teaching job where I live now I was working 60 plus hours a day and still had time to keep the house clean, garden, etc. But it also scared men because I am very much a business minded person and I did not have to much time for free time. Now I have more because I am on the normal 8 hour shift. And while I have decided I never want to be married again I would love to find someone to go an explore my little world because it is beautiful around this area and there are adventures to be had.

This is the area I live in now and every single day I get to breathe in the trees, smell of water and life...


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## quadrants2 (Apr 2, 2005)

Cindilu brings up something I was thinking earlier...Laura asked about what the men wanted but alot of women have their own careers. If I was to meet someone that had a career I wouldn't think of asking her to give up something she loved..however, as an example..my brothers wife had a career when they met but she wanted the traditional roles so when they married she quit her job and became a stay at home wife and that was 10 yrs ago and they never looked back.


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## quadrants2 (Apr 2, 2005)

cindilu said:


> Well now that you guys are talking about the meat of the subject I can see some of my problems from past and now also present. .....
> 
> ...... And while I have decided I never want to be married again I would love to find someone to go an explore my little world because it is beautiful around this area and there are adventures to be had.


I agree with both of these thoughts..I too see where I didn't ask the right questions from my past before taking the leap..or if I did ask I didn't "hear" the answer...
Also..the marriage thing I think is different if you're past the age of having children. It's more about being two people sharing life not creating a family foundation? If Its coming out how I'm meaning it...


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## cindilu (Jan 27, 2008)

Exactly...

If I found someone that had a good paying job, didn't mind working while I stayed home I would be down with that. But I am also debt free so they would have to be good at managing money because debt free is the way to go, HARD, but the way to go. BUT, if I ever did become a stay at home wife you can bet money I would be volunteering, working towards serving on city council or some other shenanigans like that, lol.


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## rkintn (Dec 12, 2002)

I tend to shy away from the word "traditional" when it comes to gender roles. Most folks have it in their head that the women folk stayed home and didn't contribute much financially while the man slaved away outside the home, never giving a thought to raising kids etc. I know in my family and in the area in which I live the roles were seldom so defined. Women of my grandmother's generation (including my grannie) worked outside the home to help financially. She picked cotton, cleaned houses, cooked at the local hospital etc all while keeping house. My grandfather farmed and worked other jobs as well. We do them all a disservice when we try to stick them in a box called "tradition". They all did what was needed to survive.


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## Raeven (Oct 11, 2011)

I, too, am wary of the term, "traditional roles." My mother's parents were the epitome of a traditional "power couple." Their "job" was their farm. They worked shoulder to shoulder to make their place a success, and they succeeded beyond their imaginations. My grandmother assumed the more "traditional role" of cooking, cleaning and generally looking after all the farm hands, while my grandfather oversaw work in their fields. But my grandmother simultaneously had thriving, profitable side businesses raising chickens to sell eggs and Angora rabbits for their fur. She also milked the cows, churned the butter by hand, planted and maintained a huge vegetable garden, sold the excess cream and milk. During harvest, she combined right along with the rest of them or oversaw where the grain was deposited for storage. She was smart, tough and hardworking as could be.

In my world, that's the "tradition."


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## cindilu (Jan 27, 2008)

Raeven said:


> I, too, am wary of the term, "traditional roles." My mother's parents were the epitome of a traditional "power couple." Their "job" was their farm. They worked shoulder to shoulder to make their place a success, and they succeeded beyond their imaginations. My grandmother assumed the more "traditional role" of cooking, cleaning and generally looking after all the farm hands, while my grandfather oversaw work in their fields. But my grandmother simultaneously had thriving, profitable side businesses raising chickens to sell eggs and Angora rabbits for their fur. She also milked the cows, churned the butter by hand, planted and maintained a huge vegetable garden, sold the excess cream and milk. During harvest, she combined right along with the rest of them or oversaw where the grain was deposited for storage. She was smart, tough and hardworking as could be.
> 
> In my world, that's the "tradition."


Yeah, I am liking the idea of that world, it seems perfect to me. Your grandparents did a good job of providing and showing good examples of what it is to live the good life.


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## Sourdough (Dec 28, 2011)

This last sentence is the "Key" to understanding the relationship problem (Today). This no longer exists and that makes everything different. Put this "Back" into the marriage/life partner relationship goal and it make the choice simple.....If you want to stay alive, you do what is needed. Which may explain the attraction to a more rustic/basic/off-grid lifestyle. That at some unconscious level humans know that the way the world works "Currently" is an illusion, a fatal illusion for humans, and a primal drive is pushing some to escape.




rkintn said:


> They all did what was needed to survive.


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## quadrants2 (Apr 2, 2005)

I think the definition of traditional is probably determinate on your age range, if your family lived in the country or city, and if youre speaking about parents or grandparents etc.


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## cindilu (Jan 27, 2008)

Sourdough said:


> This last sentence is the "Key" to understanding the relationship problem (Today). This no longer exists and that makes everything different. Put this "Back" into the marriage/life partner relationship goal and it make the choice simple.....If you want to stay alive, you do what is needed. Which may explain the attraction to a more rustic/basic/off-grid lifestyle. That at some unconscious level humans know that the way the world works "Currently" is an illusion, a fatal illusion for humans, and a primal drive is pushing some to escape.


Now that is perfectly said...


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## oneraddad (Jul 20, 2010)

quadrants2 said:


> Also..the marriage thing I think is different if you're past the age of having children. It's more about being two people sharing life not creating a family foundation


This^^^^^ I wouldn't care if she worked or not as long as she could take care of herself and had a place of her own. I couldn't stand someone around all the time.


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## jwal10 (Jun 5, 2010)

My wife stayed at home when the kids were small. Helped on the farm. When the younger (DS) started preschool she started working at his school, part time to fill the time. It worked into a full time job but just while the kids were in school, worked out well. DS's senior year was her last. I had a good job and we didn't really need her to work. She probably would have been at the school (it was a private school) anyway, might as well get paid for it. She taught music and later secretary there. I really enjoyed that time, I got lazy. She took care of everything and my off time was really enjoyable with her and the kids. Were able to take more vacations. I had a lot of time off so we did things, went places. I retired early so we could enjoy OUR time. Now we can work on things as we want. The money she made helped a lot with this, we were able to save a lot of it. We only needed 1 rig for years as I had a city rig 24/7. We only have 1 now, 1 cell phone and are together most of the time. My Grandmother never worked off the farm. Mom went to work after us kids were in school, working at school, she taught reading and was the school secretary. Daughter doesn't have kids of her own, 2 steps but they are at their Moms most the time. She works at school, after school program coordinator and as an Education Assistant. It is what she wants right now but she and her husband have talked about her not working and be more available for travelling with him, he gets a lot of great paid vacations/conferences to great locations. A week there but a few hours of "work" and the rest just meeting and greeting....James


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## FarmerJoe (Nov 14, 2009)

A lot depends on where you are at. As in psychologically. In current society the goal is getting stuff. It takes two incomes to support the vacation house, boat, camper,4 vehicles, jet skis and other toys etc. I refer to this as the real world. So the men on Pof are probably looking for a full time worker. They may have also had to support a freeloader in the past. These men may see no value in homegrown vegetables or canning. Why waste your time when you can get that stuff at the store. Same with women. I see profiles looking for a guy that has a real job. Even requiring a pension. 

Now in the country/farming/homesteading world this would be different. I would support a woman doing what she wanted as long as it worked out financially. Personally I thing it would be great working side by side on the farm. But I also know that some people need more space than others. But there will come a day when the working is done, and all you'll have is each other. I'm less looking for the worker and more for the one I'll grow old with.


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## vicker (Jul 11, 2003)

I would like a woman who is very much into her life and whole. However, I'd also like to feel needed at times. At my age I would very much expect a woman to be involved in her own life. If she wasn't, that would be cool too. She'd just have a different story.


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## CajunSunshine (Apr 24, 2007)

cindilu said:


> ... *I work 40 plus hours a day.* Before taking the teaching job where I live now* I was working 60 plus hours a day* and still had time to keep the house clean, garden, etc. *But it also scared men...*



Mais cher! Of course, men are scared! You be WONDER WOMAN!!!

I knew it, I just knew it! For years I complained there were just not enough hours in a day because sometimes a mere 24 hours in a day just don't cut it.

Try as I might, I just couldn't figure out how to get more than 24 hours out of a day...

Look at you go! 40 hours, yes _60 hours_ in a day! :bow:


tee hee...I couldn't resist, (((Cindilu.)))



.


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## Laura Zone 5 (Jan 13, 2010)

My great gramma stayed home, raised 2 kids, kept cows and chickens, cooked, cleaned, had supper ready when my great granpa got home from work. (She's where I get my homesteading gene!!).

My clearest memory of her was in their living room; she was sitting in her chair and I was rubbing her feet (I was about 4) and commented on how rough they were. 
She sunggled me up in her arms and told me that they were rough cause she was a tough old lady.
She was.

She did not work a job for money outside the home, but I will tell you this: she worked harder AT home than most folks do in a lifetime on a paying job.


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## Vahomesteaders (Jun 4, 2014)

Well my wife was a full time worker for 14 years in the banking world. She also went to night school. So I had alot of the parenting duties solo for a few years. Didn't mind it except for hunting season. Lol. But a few years ago she gave it all up to be sahm and teach our kids. I have to say I much prefer that. I know all our safe while I go to earn the money. Of course I can walk to work as I'm a farmer. Lol. I prefer traditional family structure. Many men are looking for that these days and is hard to find. It's also why so many marriages end in divorce. As un pc as it is, you can't have 2 chiefs. It was that way with my wife and me. Both chiefs and lots of fighting early on. Things got pretty stressful. Then my wife started reading the bible. She read God's headship order and decided to try it. Kinda shocked me. She Said I'm going to let you make the decisions for the family and go with your decision. It was scary at first as we didn't often agree on things. But I have to tell you. It changed everything. No more fighting or indecision. She let the weight go off her shoulders and on to mine. So she was much more relaxed. Things just fell into place. We grew closer then ever. Now we are her on year 17 and couldn't imagine it getting any better. She is happier than ever as am I. When we follow the order the good Lord put in place for us things go much smoother. She has the hardest job of educating the children keeping house, gardening, canning and cooking making cheese and butter, soaps , jellies and jams and a plethora of other things. I put in the 60 plus hours a week farming the land, tending the cattle building the buildings and fences, turning the land clearing the fields. I also have a side furniture business I keep going which is growing and taking alot of time. But we do these things to give our children something to be proud of that will sustain them. And none of it was possible until we started living a more traditional life. I pray every fella out there finds a woman as strong as mine. And I pray every woman out there find a man willing carry the weight of the family and his wife's needs without complaint or comprise.


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## Laura Zone 5 (Jan 13, 2010)

VA, your post, warms my heart, and puts a huge smile on my face.

It's also a very real reminder that YES, the life you described IS possible and there are men out that worth building it with!!!!

Thanks for making my morning!!


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## frogmammy (Dec 8, 2004)

My daughter was a stay at home mom for most of their marriage (so far) but a couple times she took a job because the family needed the extra income. 

Then there was the one time she "went on strike" and got a full time job for a few months...nobody (7 kids) was picking up after themselves, doing their daily chores, not even keeping their dirty laundry in one place OR getting it to the washer, and they were griping about what she fixed for meals and just about everything else. So she decided to let THEM handle it. She quit the job when they tried to make her manager, and she was more appreciated when she started working at home again. :heh:

Before they married, she and her husband to be discussed how they wanted to "run" their marriage...she wanted to be a stay at home mom, he wanted a stay at home wife. Worked out VERY well for them. That and the fact that her husband would walk through hot coals barefoot if that's what he needed to do to support his family. I think he and Superman have a whole lot in common!

Mon...PS...daughter was just visiting and I convinced her to let me buy a Carolina Reaper pepper plant for her husband. (he loves hot peppers) Beautiful plant!


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## Shrek (May 1, 2002)

I am perfectly satisfied with her still working her full 40 a week plus overtime to pay her own bills and in appreciation when she works OT, I offer to go let her dog out and feed him and draw her a bath and fix her dinner if she likes before we have her relaxation evening before I come home to care for my own animals and sleep comfortably in my own house and bed for at least 5 more hours before meeting her at the cafÃ© for breakfast if during the work week and then coming back home to relax or go back to bed.

If she isn't working and wants to have a date night we do. If either of us don't feel like it, we just stay at our own homes.

All the happy without any of the drama or headaches. Romance for us is simply more enjoyable in realistic timeframes that leave us looking forward to the next time we have together without tiring of each other.


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## Nsoitgoes (Jan 31, 2016)

Personally I think it is up to the couple involved to figure out what works best for them.

I have been a SAHM and a work-outside-the-home mom. From a personal point of view, both were satisfying because they happened at different stages of our lives. I loved staying home when the children were small, but (much as I love[d] them) I really loved working and having something other than diapers and housework to talk about. 

DH often worked out of town, so I took on many of the "traditional" male roles. When he was home he took over for that time. There was never any problem with that. We did what was needed when it needed to be done. 

I did not see any "2 chiefs" conflict. Aren't we supposed to be partners, working equally for the good and strength of the family unit? If a decision needs to be made on the spot, then the person there has to make the best one they can. The other has to accept that they did their best. If it isn't urgent then they can discuss the best way forward. That just seems common sense to me. I didn't usurp my husband's role, but there were times when I had to make decisions when he was not available to participate. That was just the way it was.


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## cindilu (Jan 27, 2008)

CajunSunshine said:


> Mais cher! Of course, men are scared! You be WONDER WOMAN!!!
> 
> I knew it, I just knew it! For years I complained there were just not enough hours in a day because sometimes a mere 24 hours in a day just don't cut it.
> 
> ...


Seesh, I am thinking I need to proof read before I hit send, lol. It's all good, LOL. :icecream:


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## quadrants2 (Apr 2, 2005)

cindilu said:


> Seesh, I am thinking I need to proof read before I hit send, lol. It's all good, LOL. :icecream:


You better proofread your campaign speech for errors too..you'll never get a city council seat that way..


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## cindilu (Jan 27, 2008)

quadrants2 said:


> You better proofread your campaign speech for errors too..you'll never get a city council seat that way..


Uggg, I have been asked to come and sit, watch and see if I would like to be part of city council. I am already sitting in on the Chiloquin Coalition and have a meeting for that tomorrow. Have also been asked to sit on the board for the Chiloquin Visions in Progress. Never ever in my life did I see myself as that type of person. My spelling kinda stinks and I NEED to learn to proof read. I also NEED to wear glasses which I pretty much forget half the time because I really don't like them. Oh well, such is life, lol.


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## roadless (Sep 9, 2006)

Good for you cindilu., obviously your opinions are valued, just be careful you are not spread to thin.
I think it is good for us to get out of our comfort zones now and again......it stretches us. : )
Btw, I'm not a fan of wearing glasses either but it beats brushing my teeth with cortisone. ..:teehee:


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## WolfWalksSoftly (Aug 13, 2004)

roadless said:


> Good for you cindilu., obviously your opinions are valued, just be careful you are not spread to thin.
> I think it is good for us to get out of our comfort zones now and again......it stretches us. : )
> Btw, I'm not a fan of wearing glasses either but it beats brushing my teeth with cortisone. ..:teehee:


Or Preparation H.


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## roadless (Sep 9, 2006)

No swollen itchy gums though....


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## cindilu (Jan 27, 2008)

You guys are funny. On my drive over this area of my world I did a U turn on the highway thinking there was a tiny baby skunk that needed rescue. Turned around and discovered it was a tennis shoe. Yeah, my eye doctor was NOT amused. He held up two fingers and said I was THIS close to not being allowed to drive without my glasses. I pretty much shut up right there.


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## FarmChix (Mar 3, 2013)

Laura Zone 5 said:


> Question for the men......
> 
> Read a profile on POF where a man 'humorously' rants about women.
> How he wanted a woman that is bat spit crazy, doesn't work, doesn't have a car, checks his phone, etc.
> ...


From a woman's point of view, this thread interests me. I work a "big girl" job. My weeks are a minimum of 40 hours, usually at least 60 and I travel. I am a road warrior. Yet, when I am home, I am 'traditional'. I do all the laundry. I am OCD about a clean house. I garden. I bake all of our bread. I have 56 chickens....you get the point. I am a homesteader as much as I *can* be given the amount of hours I work. I was raised to be a woman who can take care of herself, yet I feel compelled to take care of men. Were anything to happen to the Hubs, my lifestyle _shouldn't_ change. 

Although, as I read some of the above thoughts this fella has, I can only say that I feel for those of you in the dating world. If the trust is such in your relationship that you feel like you need to check their cell phone, you shouldn't be too surprised at what you find. (I made that mistake recently and it has my head reeling, so I'm not throwing stones.)

I do know one thing for sure....due to my homestead and my big girl job, I wouldn't have time to date, thus keeping me out of trouble! 

I do wonder if there is a new definition of traditional vs. what we 'older' folks think.


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## Laura Zone 5 (Jan 13, 2010)

I worked 30 hours a week (evenings) bartending.
For 4 years, I worked 2 jobs + volunteered at the race track to pay for my son's travel hockey (he and his older sister worked too from age 13-17)

What I made paid for the 'fun' that was required.
If a new tv was needed, I worked extra shifts. 
If a new dirtbike was needed, I worked extra shifts. 
If a new video game or video game console was wanted, I got it.
If a 'business venture' was wanted, I worked extra shifts to buy the things needed.......

I cooked, cleaned (OCD myself!), paid bills, meal planned,(never the same meal twice in a month) shopped, took care of all repair calls, insurance issues etc.,
I was the 'cheerleader', made sure everyone was 'happy' and 'satisfied'; Peacekeeper.
I had 15 raised beds, apple/pear trees, berry bushes and vines that I raised from seed, weeded, canned, jellied and jammed.
I did home repairs, (drywall, painting, staining, etc). 
I scheduled all appointments and took the kids to all appointments
I shopped for everyone's clothes
Laundry, ironing, etc.
I planned all parties and events and cooked and cleaned for those too.
Homeschooled 3 kids to graduation. 
Coordinated all trips out of town, packed, unpacked, planned meals, cleaned up, etc.
I volunteered.
I had 3 months of supplies accumulated, learned how to dehydrate and seed save.
I shopped for myself at goodwill, and dumpster dove or used Freecycle / Free on CL anything I needed. 
The last car I bought off the lot was 2001, a mini van, so that the family could do travel hockey and haul dirtbikes. 
I put 345,000 miles on that van before I sold it in 2012.

My life, was amazing. I loved every second of it.
I had a house full most of the time......kids had friends over, {and for YEARS the inlaws were over every weekend.....:grit:}.
I thought I was doing everything right.....

I have no idea what "men" want.


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## roadless (Sep 9, 2006)

I don't know either Laura, but what I am learning is that I'm not put in this world to make anyone happy, nor to have someone make me happy. All that stuff is an inside job!
I like me, I'm a good woman. I am separate, complete and whole as a single woman. ....and while it would be great to share myself with a man, my life is not on hold.


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## Laura Zone 5 (Jan 13, 2010)

roadless said:


> i don't know either laura, but what i am learning is that i'm not put in this world to make anyone happy, nor to have someone make me happy. All that stuff is an inside job!
> I like me, i'm a good woman. I am separate, complete and whole as a single woman. ....*and while it would be great to share myself with a man, my life is not on hold.*


right!


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## FarmChix (Mar 3, 2013)

Laura Zone 5 said:


> I worked 30 hours a week (evenings) bartending.
> For 4 years, I worked 2 jobs + volunteered at the race track to pay for my son's travel hockey (he and his older sister worked too from age 13-17)
> 
> What I made paid for the 'fun' that was required.
> ...


Sounds like my "first" marriage. Note the word "first". I don't know either and wouldn't pretend to know. All I know is that I would drown in the dating pool.


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## M5farm (Jan 14, 2014)

Well first of all Men have been Trying to figure out women since the beginning of time so turnabout is fair play. 

I've been married for 26yrs (2nd time). We have been thru everything a couple can go thru with a lot of it my fault. Stay at home , work , it really does not matter in the big picture. Most of the problems in a relationship is financial so with that being said a working wife can relieve some of that burden. But It really comes down to maturity some mature early some late and once you mature you find a way to keep the family together. 
Using an excuse on why women should or shouldn't work is nothing more than a man having a reason in which to lay the blame if it does not work out.


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## Laura (May 10, 2002)

roadless said:


> I don't know either Laura, but what I am learning is that I'm not put in this world to make anyone happy, nor to have someone make me happy. All that stuff is an inside job!
> I like me, I'm a good woman. I am separate, complete and whole as a single woman. ....and while it would be great to share myself with a man, my life is not on hold.


I don't think men know what they want, but they think they'll know her when they see her. Whatever. 

You perfectly nailed it Roadless. Choosing who we are, being happy in our own personhood, finding the daily joys keeps me full. If I meet a man who adds to my life rather than detracts, I may get interested. 

I have weird thought patterns. I can be talking with a man, become aware he's interested in me, and I begin analyzing if he would ruin my lovely walks on the beach in the sunset. It's quite the OFF switch for me!


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## quadrants2 (Apr 2, 2005)

Ill throw myself on the sword for the guys on here.....
Seems interesting that this thread started out as asking "men's opinions" then turned to a "what are men thinking" and "we dont know what we want " thread..hmmm... Wow ladies.


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## roadless (Sep 9, 2006)

Certainly nothing against men quadrant2.....I happen to like men very much! &#9825;


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## quadrants2 (Apr 2, 2005)

M5farm said:


> ......
> Using an excuse on why women should or shouldn't work is nothing more than a man having a reason in which to lay the blame if it does not work out.


Edited to say...Ill keep my opinions to myself.


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## tamarackreg (Mar 13, 2006)

roadless said:


> I don't know either Laura, but what I am learning is that I'm not put in this world to make anyone happy, nor to have someone make me happy. All that stuff is an inside job!
> I like me, I'm a good woman. I am separate, complete and whole as a single woman. ....and while it would be great to share myself with a man, my life is not on hold.






Laura said:


> You perfectly nailed it Roadless. Choosing who we are, being happy in our own personhood, finding the daily joys keeps me full. If I meet a man who adds to my life rather than detracts, I may get interested.
> 
> I have weird thought patterns. I can be talking with a man, become aware he's interested in me, and I begin analyzing if he would ruin my lovely walks on the beach in the sunset. It's quite the OFF switch for me!


Yes, Roadless nailed it as I see it from a mans perspective as well. 

Healthier, happier and livin' life better than ever - as Laura said, the idea of a relationship is an OFF switch to me too. 

My work, hobbies and life style aren't conducive to "meeting someone" so it's a rare occurrence anyhow. LOL


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## Laura Zone 5 (Jan 13, 2010)

I love men!!! They are my favorite flavor!!!


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## vicker (Jul 11, 2003)

"Men don't know what women are thinking", bwahahaha! They won't shut up about it.


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## WolfWalksSoftly (Aug 13, 2004)

M5farm said:


> Using an excuse on why women should or shouldn't work is nothing more than a man having a reason in which to lay the blame if it does not work out.


Seems you have been around the wrong type of men.


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## WolfWalksSoftly (Aug 13, 2004)

There are way too many conditions we apply to life. I've always felt that you don't choose who you fall in love with, it just happens....unless one puts a lot of conditions in there. When those conditions change or go away so does that love. Love has to be unconditional,tolerant,and honest....sometimes that honest can lead to disappointments.


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## roadless (Sep 9, 2006)

Well said wolf.


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## Laura Zone 5 (Jan 13, 2010)

WolfWalksSoftly said:


> There are way too many conditions we apply to life. I've always felt that you don't choose who you fall in love with, it just happens....unless one puts a lot of conditions in there. When those conditions change or go away so does that love. Love has to be unconditional,tolerant,and honest....sometimes that honest can lead to disappointments.



Look at you making sense and stuff!!!:heh:

Love is patient, love is kind. 
It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud.
It does not dishonor others, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs. 
Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth.
It always protects, always trusts, always hopes, always perseveres. 
Love never fails



> Ill throw myself on the sword for the guys on here.....
> Seems interesting that this thread started out as asking "men's opinions" then turned to a "what are men thinking" and "we dont know what we want " thread..hmmm... Wow ladies.


I think the original question unraveled......
I said the words "more traditional" and didn't realize that it would send things off track.


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## WolfWalksSoftly (Aug 13, 2004)

Laura Zone 5 said:


> Look at you making sense and stuff!!!:heh:
> 
> Love is patient, love is kind.
> It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud.
> ...


I have my moments of clarity however few.


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## M5farm (Jan 14, 2014)

WolfWalksSoftly said:


> Seems you have been around the wrong type of men.


Wrong or right Its a simple truth. I myself have used excuses similar to lay blame for my indiscretions. It goes back to maturity and learning from your mistakes , My wife would tell you the same thing. Some things are learned the hard way.


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## WolfWalksSoftly (Aug 13, 2004)

M5farm said:


> Wrong or right Its a simple truth. I myself have used excuses similar to lay blame for my indiscretions. It goes back to maturity and learning from your mistakes , My wife would tell you the same thing. Some things are learned the hard way.


Perhaps I misunderstood. I would never use someone else as a scapegoat for my failure. If I screw up it's on me.


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## M5farm (Jan 14, 2014)

WolfWalksSoftly said:


> Seems you have been around the wrong type of men.





WolfWalksSoftly said:


> Perhaps I misunderstood. I would never use someone else as a scapegoat for my failure. If I screw up it's on me.



I admire that but In reality most of the failures in marriage can be blamed on one of them laying the blame on the other. - Husband cheats on wife he says it because she was never home and always working or she never had time for him always taking care of the kids etc etc. If you dissect this the problem is the husband was using these excuses to justify his infidelity. Its far more common than you think, Laura7 posted everything she did as a wife and still ended up divorced , WHY ???? looks like she was the perfect wife from my perspective but the ex thought otherwise . I do not know them but can speculate he blamed her for their problems . Im Only relating what I have seen and learned over the yrs , Maybe Its just a regional anomaly to my area but have seen it many times .


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## WolfWalksSoftly (Aug 13, 2004)

M5 I understand what you are saying now. Laura probably made lumpy cream of wheat.. But I like those lumps.


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## Nsoitgoes (Jan 31, 2016)

M5farm said:


> I admire that but In reality most of the failures in marriage can be blamed on one of them laying the blame on the other. -


I don't think it is ever just one partner to blame. My first DH couldn't keep his zipper up. His fault? Maybe that was the initial cause, but I was too young (17) to react in a mature way. I just cried and shouted and who wants to come home to that?

My second husband (NOT a DH) was emotionally and mentally abusive. His fault? Yes, but I did nothing to remove myself from the situation, and was too blind to see what was happening and stand up for myself till it was too late.

Fortunately, third time was a charm. I had learned some hard lessons, but I applied that knowledge and found a keeper. I also applied those lessons when I started looking for another person to share my life. I knew what I didn't want. That is always a good place to start...


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## MOSTBCWT (May 5, 2016)

As a completely debt free homestead man I would prefer a woman who stays at home with me and we make a small income from home or home made goods in some way.


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## Nsoitgoes (Jan 31, 2016)

MOSTBCWT said:


> As a completely debt free homestead man I would prefer a woman who stays at home with me and we make a small income from home or home made goods* in some way*.


Are you making an income from home or home made goods already? One which could expand given another pair of hands? The above sounds rather vague.

Staying at home with just one person is not all sunshine and roses. In fact, even with my DH who I loved dearly and who worked from home when he wasn't on site - often when his boss would call I would ask "Don't you have something for him to do in Timbuktoo?" LOL. 

Most people need some personal space they can call their own, a personal life that doesn't revolve around their partner. I, at least, did and he respected that. He also had his hobbies that did not include me. IMHO being with one person 24/7 does absolutely nothing for a relationship.


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## MOSTBCWT (May 5, 2016)

Nsoitgoes said:


> Are you making an income from home or home made goods already? One which could expand given another pair of hands?


That's irrelevant what I do at this moment. 




Nsoitgoes said:


> Staying at home with just one person is not all sunshine and roses. In fact, even with my DH who I loved dearly and who worked from home when he wasn't on site - often when his boss would call I would ask "Don't you have something for him to do in Timbuktoo?" LOL.


everyone has their own opinions I guess





Nsoitgoes said:


> Most people need some personal space they can call their own, a personal life that doesn't revolve around their partner. I, at least, did and he respected that. He also had his hobbies that did not include me. IMHO being with one person 24/7 does absolutely nothing for a relationship.


 nothing says people can't have personal space and be stay at home homesteaders. Everyone has different opinions and needs/desires


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## Laura Zone 5 (Jan 13, 2010)

M5farm said:


> I admire that but In reality most of the failures in marriage can be blamed on one of them laying the blame on the other. - Husband cheats on wife he says it because she was never home and always working or she never had time for him always taking care of the kids etc etc. If you dissect this the problem is the husband was using these excuses to justify his infidelity. Its far more common than you think, Laura7 posted everything she did as a wife and still ended up divorced , WHY ???? looks like she was the perfect wife from my perspective but the ex thought otherwise . I do not know them but can speculate he blamed her for their problems . Im Only relating what I have seen and learned over the yrs , Maybe Its just a regional anomaly to my area but have seen it many times .


I won't hijack the thread......I will send you a PM......


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