# Build a still?



## fishhead (Jul 19, 2006)

Has anyone here built a still?

I'm toying with the idea of building one to cook ethanol from cattail roots.


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## ace admirer (Oct 5, 2005)

i think i once knew a fellow that knew someone that had a cousin that lived near someone that had a great grandfather that made one.

mother earth has plans for several models the search is somewhat convoluted....whole earth maybe.


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## oldasrocks (Oct 27, 2006)

Stills are easy. We even built one in High School back in the 60's. I think I'm still grounded. In the 70's I watched a show on 60 minutes where Brazil was running over a million cars on alcohol made from cane sugar. Built by the Ford motor company but they don't know how here. So we built a bigger still and I ran my Ranchero on a 20% mixutre till I was tired of doing it. We used sugar beets at the time.

I have no idea of the sugar content of Cattails. The higher the sugar content the more alcohol you will get. Ours tested at 90% or 180 proof. Don't use copper tubing if you are going to taste it.


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## Ross (May 9, 2002)

> Don't use copper tubing if you are going to taste it.


 Why? I thought all the old moonshine stills were nothing but copper plate and tubing.


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## Jim-mi (May 15, 2002)

Not sure what you intend to do with the product . . .drink . . . .or 'fuel' for a motor . . . ???

If for motor fuel I hope you are aware that you have to modify the system a bunch....
Raw straight ethanol will eat up "gasoline" gaskets and such.


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## kirkmcquest (Oct 21, 2010)

All it is is a closed boiling pot with a coil going from the top to a collector. The boiled vapor rises and condenses back to a liquid inside the tube and drops into the collector.

I jery rigged a large pot by turning the lid upside down and adding ice cubes to the top and a collector inside the pot (raised alittle above the brew). When the alcohol vapors rise up they hit the cooled lid and turned to vapor, then rolled down the inverted lid and dropped into the collector ( a smaller pot ). I made nice 'grappa' once that way from some hard cider I made.


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## Ray (Dec 5, 2002)

lead solder used in copper fittings is the the problem most folks worry about. I doubt it has killed too many, but who knows how much lead laden whiskey the old timers drank? I really can't imagine the solder joints causing more problems than the altered mind state that the whiskey causes without drinking enough that the alcohol itself would destroy the liver before the lead contamination could do much harm, but I don't know how much lead you could from solder joints myself?? best wishes, ray


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## Micheal (Jan 28, 2009)

Ahh, yes I have. The trick is to get the mash hot enough to "boil" out the alcohol without boilin the water......
But, I'd be very careful with what you want to do - you may start to "skirt" some fed, state, and/or local laws just by having a "still" no matter what the use of the end product......... but then maybe you may _never_ get caught.......


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## PyroDon (Jul 30, 2006)

building the still is the easy part doing it legally is a totally different issue 
good luck on getting BATFE approval which you need unless you plan to be a felon .
I looked into it myself lots and lots of red tape .

like the idea though Cat tails make decent animal feed


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## Ross (May 9, 2002)

Ray wouldn't you just use a non lead solder? Just got me wondering because you always see the huge copper stills in the whiskey advertising. Would using a lead solder on a fuel still add lead to the fuel?  I'm guessing not significantly.


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## Guest (Mar 29, 2011)

PyroDon said:


> building the still is the easy part doing it legally is a totally different issue
> good luck on getting BATFE approval which you need unless you plan to be a felon .
> I looked into it myself lots and lots of red tape .


 And therein lies the real problem.

The still is the easy part. But even if you're just making alcohol for fuel you've still got to have a government license and they are jealous of their prerogative.


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## Jim-mi (May 15, 2002)

More and more I'm hearing people who are unhappy with the likes of E85 fuel claiming less mileage than straight gas . . . (I am Diesel)
And as a stomach fuel . . . . . . . .???

So unless you are willing to run the risks of a still I don't see any advantage . . . . . . . .


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## ksfarmer (Apr 28, 2007)

Ross said:


> Ray wouldn't you just use a non lead solder? Just got me wondering because you always see the huge copper stills in the whiskey advertising. Would using a lead solder on a fuel still add lead to the fuel?  I'm guessing not significantly.


Right. Copper is what is safe to use. Steel barrels for fermenting in and distilling will not be safe for drinking. Use silver solder on the copper, not lead. A couple friends and I did this years ago to use as fuel. It worked in small motors, never got brave enough to put it in a car. We used wheat, and corn.


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## fishhead (Jul 19, 2006)

If I remember correctly you can make a ridiculous amount of alcohol each year with any permitting. I think it was 100 gallons.

I would just do it mostly for the experience, maybe drink a little, maybe put a little in my gas tank.

An acre of cattails produces tons of starch and sugar.


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## fishhead (Jul 19, 2006)

Here's some interesting reading on cattails.

http://www.biofuelswiki.org/canvaswiki/index.cfm/cattail


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## PyroDon (Jul 30, 2006)

fishhead said:


> If I remember correctly you can make a ridiculous amount of alcohol each year with any permitting. I think it was 100 gallons.
> 
> I would just do it mostly for the experience, maybe drink a little, maybe put a little in my gas tank.
> 
> An acre of cattails produces tons of starch and sugar.


think thats beer or wine , distilling is another issue .
regs may have changed in the last five years but when I checked the agent told me I could get an HE manufacturing license no sweat but a distillation permit required an act of God . basically there was a freeze on them . 
If you can find any current info Id love to try myself


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## ace admirer (Oct 5, 2005)

the old copper was riveted,,,not soldered. other joints were "caulked' with flour paste. up to a few years ago all of us drank water from lead soldered copper pipes....the killer in stills where when volume distillers started using auto radiators as condensers and also added acid directly from auto batteries. lots of lead. as others have pointed out leadless solder or silver is the answer...i don't think the internal combustion engine will mind the lead in any event. 200 gallons of wine or beer/year/household/not sold. one gallon of untaxed distilled wine or beer will get you a federal......in my area anyway.....

but not to the second law of thermodynamics....how are you going to generate the 159degree worth heat required to evaporate the alca....?solar would be good

anyway. running a still is very American....everyone should do it....but not get caught.....


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## sticky_burr (Dec 10, 2010)

well ethanol has a lower energy value than gasoline BUT it has a much higher octane. i am considering, if a engine is built to run the what 110 octane via tight piston clearence , turbos, or supercharger. if it will be more powerful/ economical than a low compression gasoline motor. unlike the big 3 i would not just use a 5 liter and bump the compression . but use a 2.5-3 liter and run that in place of the 5 liter built to run on e100 at 110 octane


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## Fat Charlie (Sep 9, 2010)

I remember a full page ad for a still in a brewing magazine years ago. The text above the photo promoted the idea of using distilled water for brewing purposes to avoid detracting from the taste of your beer. The text below the photo explained that the posession of distilling equipment in and of itself was completely legal. 

Federal law exempts from taxation 100 gallons a year per adult in the household, to a maximum of 200 gallons. It doesn't "allow" anything, however. That's up to state and local laws. 100 gallons is only 40 cases of beer. A ridiculous amount, indeed- less than three a day. #%[email protected]* commies. It's apparently not legal everywhere; I'm just glad I don't live in one of those places. The AHA has a good reference page in case you're concerned about your local laws: http://www.homebrewersassociation.org/pages/government-affairs/statutes/united-states Just remember that they aren't lawyers and don't give legal advice.


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## crispin (Jun 30, 2010)

I think you should give it a try.
It would be a very good skill to have in SITF

However I looked into it, as I wanted to distill the homemade wine I was making into something stronger, and I believe Federal Law prohibits ANY distilling without a permit.

I would think that the odds of you getting into trouble is very low.


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## ace admirer (Oct 5, 2005)

i think we need some clarity. brewing beer or wine is not distilling.....use of distilled water is not distilling,,200 gallon per household is allowed not sellable. ,, boiling of the alca FROM beer (worth) or wine and condensing that alca in a higher concentration IS distilling and is a federal. 

the odds of getting caught are very low unless you talk, brag or tick someone off.


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## ryanthomas (Dec 10, 2009)

Yes, you need a permit for any alcohol distilling. But I looked into it not too long ago and it didn't seem like it was too much red tape, at least not as much as I expected. Any red tape is too much for me. It's not handled by the ATF anymore, it's now TTB, or Tax and Trade Bureau: http://www.ttb.gov/industrial/alcohol_fuel.shtml.

States have their own requirements, I think some are worse than federal. Their main concern is to make sure you're not producing beverage alcohol, and that you're paying road tax.


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## Forerunner (Mar 23, 2007)

Definitely use copper if you plan to drink your product.
Use compression fittings if lead scares you.

I have done a little distilling.
My favorite project was distilling used motor oil.
I used a 20 pound propane bottle for my boiler and a coil of tubing placed in cool water for my condenser.
Made an almost clear, yellowish fluid and a small amount of interesting sediment (powder) in the tank.
I burned the product in diesel engines, mixed with regular diesel.
I wouldn't recommend drinking it...


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## sweet potato (Mar 30, 2011)

I know that I am getting in on the tailend of this discussion but here goes. My late husband & I built 2 stills out of a beer kegs and assorted copper parts. We lived completely without electric and conventional running water. The law stipulates that you are allowed 50 gal of alcohol per adult living in the household. We used the end product to run our generator and a small motor attached to a gang shaft servicing several small appliances and my washing machine. Good luck with your project.


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## Fat Charlie (Sep 9, 2010)

Do you live in Sealand or something?


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## StL.Ed (Mar 6, 2011)

See if you can find a copy of Alcohol Can Be A Gas! by David Blume at your local library or bookstore. It's a bit biased, but has a lot of good information, including stills and feedstocks. 
Here's a link to the related web site: http://www.permaculture.com/

Ed


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## countryboy84 (Dec 8, 2010)

The still you would need depends on a couple of thing frist amount of fuel need per run, and money. Copper is the best since it has such great heat transfer, but a 10 gallon thumper of copper will run you around 650 to build. Food grade stainless is next best. You can pic up a 15 gallon stainless steel beeg keg of ebay for around 60 bucks last I looked you will need a 4 inch copper flange that will take a 2 inch pipe. Non lead solder the pipe in. Make it about 24 inch long and start reduceing it done to a 3/4 inch worm. run that worm through a 3ft piece of 6 inch PVC pipe caped on both ends so a little drilling is needed. Drill a a whole on top of the pipe and hook a little water line nd a drain hole on the bottom and there you go. Will through out about 6 gallons of 180 proof in about 3 hours. One thing you must do though is where the worm come of the colum use flour past. That way if you get it to hot it will blow the worm of and not blow you up. Mile High distillers sells these things for like 250 or 300 if you want to buy one. 
But it you need more fuel per run then that then go see Col. Wilson at http://www.coppermoonshinestills.com he will have one that can handle your run needs. and he is a great guy too. But his is copper and costly. He also has the permits for most states listed or at least he use to. He made one 200 gallon thumper one time, a real pretty thing.


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## trimpy (Mar 30, 2011)

countryboy84 said:


> Will through out about 6 gallons of 180 proof in about 3 hours.


The only way a simple pot still can get 180 proof is to have an input on 174 proof. One theoretical plate can only get your alcohol concentration so high in the vapor. Even the best thumpers may get you around another .5 plates. To get 180 proof in a single pass from something in the 10-15% ABV range post fermentation is to do many many passes on a pot still or to use a considerably more complex reflux still.

Off a 10% ABV base you need four theoretical plates to get 180 proof (assuming everything is perfect). As for output, a 2" diam column with really good packing for the reflux and a height of around 3 feet we are only talking around 40ml/minute on output of something around 180 proof. So 6 gallons would take near 10 hours to produce not including the heat up and time to reach equilibration.

A beer keg would be a very poor boiler as you can only get a gallon or two out of 15 gallons of fermented liquid, assuming 10-15% ABV starting. You can only ferment up to around 20ish percent, but going much above 10% is pretty difficult. Batch distillation of small quantities is less efficient, but is much simpler than a continuous process.

Also, you can only do this legally with proper BATF / TTB licensing, no matter the quantity. Once they check you out any you meet the criteria for having said license (still is in a secure building, ethanol is denatured, etc)
you can make up to X gallons per year w/o paying taxes.

Older version of application

Here are some alcohol as fuel resources:
http://www.homedistiller.org/forum/viewforum.php?f=5
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethanol_fuel
http://www.ttb.gov/industrial/alcohol_fuel.shtml


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## fishhead (Jul 19, 2006)

Thanks for the info.


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## solidwoods (Dec 23, 2005)

A still to make alcohol for fuel to burn is easy but to make alcohol for a car engine is not easy.
Simple stills make a high water content/low alcohol product.
For car engines you need to get the alcohol out of the water.
A web site- http://homedistiller.org/photos-sm.htm

Car engines don't do well (last very long) running on alcohol as fuel. They aren't made for it.
jim


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