# Help with old Windows PC



## Heritagefarm (Feb 21, 2010)

I'm going to be helping an elderly lady with her old windows PC tomorrow after work. She says it slowed way down after she went on vacation and her house sitter used it. My guess is that said house sitter visited suspicious websites and contracted a few viruses. She says it has antivirus, but couldn't remember which one. It's an old tower that had XP, but she just upgraded to 10. That kind of throws me, because the last windows computer I touched was running XP.

My plan of action is to check the antivirus and install a different one if it's not functional. I'll also run Spybot, assuming it still works. Next I'll do the standard thing as delete cookies, cache, history, run defrag and disk cleanup.

Any other suggestions that I should use?


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## backwoodsman7 (Mar 22, 2007)

Heritagefarm said:


> She says it has antivirus, but couldn't remember which one.


If it's Norton, get rid of it. All the worst-infected machines I've ever seen were running Norton. I try to get folks to switch to Avast and Malwarebytes. So far, everyone who's done that and done the manual scans (monthly or thereabouts) has remained malware-free, as far as I'm aware.

Avast can make a bootable "Rescue Disk" on a CD or USB flash drive, that will run a scan even if Windows is too choked up with malware. But it's best to create it on a machine that's not infected.



> It's an old tower that had XP, but she just upgraded to 10.


Meaning she upgraded before this started, and it ran OK with 10 for a while? Some of the very latest machines that came new with XP would do OK with 10 if the RAM has been upgraded to at least 2GB, but most would be excruciatingly slow even with no malware.


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## HermitJohn (May 10, 2002)

backwoodsman7 said:


> Some of the very latest mmachines that came new with XP would do OK with 10 if the RAM has been upgraded to at least 2GB, but most would be excruciatingly slow even with no malware.


They wont work if you try to use all the gimmicky win10 stuff or allow win10 to secretly dance around on the web and willy nilly installing updates that change settings. However I've been experimenting with two old XP/Vista ready computers and can say IF you use this during installation: https://sourceforge.net/projects/windows-10-lite/files/ to remove all the cloud nonsense.

Then this to plug all the phone home carp: http://dws.wzor.net/

And then install and use winaero tweaker: http://www.intowindows.com/winaero-tweaker-all-in-one-tweaking-tool-for-windows/ This gives you back lot user controls lost/hidden in win10.

You basically get in effect an updated XP like experience. On this same old hardware I found Puppy Linux Tahrpup to be little faster and more pleasant, but like I say a tamed win10 isnt horrible. If I were using win10 day to day, I would be tempted to install Comodo firewall and set it to "PARANOID" so you know when something is trying to phone home. Its not just windows doing this.

NOw if you want to know what win10 in its OEM state is like on hardware like this, go to Amazon and read reviews of the numerous low spec "cloud laptops" with non upgradable 2gb ram and slow two core celeron or four core ATOM, and even worse a 32gb eMMC flash drive that is also soldered into place. Personally if one of these wonders was my only choice, I would buy a 250gb external SSD and velcro it to the lid. Some of these do have usb 3.0 port so.... though it would work with usb 2.0 just bit slower. You can even install win10 to an external usb drive. Its tedious doing it manually but there is free demo version of wintousb that makes it trivial.

Oh like say its not just windows phoning home. Every website you go to wants to run bunch javascripts on your machine. A few maybe necessary for navigatin on that website, but most are trackers and other data collection garbage that dont benefit you, its just revenue enhancement for the website. I run NO-SCRIPT, ad blocker ultimate, and self destructing cookies extensions on Firefox. The browser itself only allows you to totally block cookies which is painful or to dump them on shutdown of browser. Self destructing cookies extension deletes cookies when you leave a website unless you whitelist that site. I forget, I usually run Puppy without flash plugin installed cause I just dont have bandwidth for flash. But if you have flash, you need an extension to let you toggle it off and on so you dont get all those automatic flash ads and website videos running in background. 

Believe me this all speeds up things greatly. I still say linux is better way to go, but win10 if tamed so YOU are in control isnt horrible. Running win10 without locking things down is equivalent of handing over your car keys to some stranger.

EDIT: Will also add that Explorer (file browser not IE) and native file seach are pretty slow in win10 run on old hardware. Add free Explorer++ and Search Everything for more pleasant experience. Both make win10 much more pleasant. M$ wastes lot talent trying to manipulate their customers rather than striving to make a truly high end operating system.


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## Nevada (Sep 9, 2004)

Heritagefarm said:


> Any other suggestions that I should use?


Start with an inventory of system specifications. I suspect that she's trying to run Windows 10 without enough resources.



backwoodsman7 said:


> Some of the very latest machines that came new with XP would do OK with 10 if the RAM has been upgraded to *at least 2GB*, but most would be excruciatingly slow even with no malware.


I emphasized "at least 2GB" because that's usually not enough. I don't configure Windows 10 machines with less than 4GB. My Windows 10 machine normally uses 3.2 to 3.4 GB at any given time, and I'm not really a power user.


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## Shin (Mar 25, 2014)

Just be careful you don't delete any of her passwords when you're deleting cache/history as she might not recall them.


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## HermitJohn (May 10, 2002)

Nevada said:


> I emphasized "at least 2GB" because that usually not enough. I don't configure Windows 10 machines with less than 4GB. My Windows 10 machine normally uses 3.2 to 3.4 GB at any given time, and I'm not really a power user.


As always the devil is in the details. It depends on what you want to do with it, and how much you want limit its hidden agendas.

With win10 tamed down, it is no worse than XP on same computer. Depends what you want to do with it. If you want internet and email computer, 2gb ram with win10 locked down as I describe, its fine, just little less responsive than latest Puppy Linux. 

You are not going to be able to do the same stuff you can with latest i7 computer with 16gb ram. But its quite usable if your expectations are not that great. Remember people are right now buying brand spankin NEW win10 cloud laptops and tablets locked to 2gb ram and a processor pretty much like those old XP/Vista computers. I tried to snag one cheap to experiment with, then resell, but since its a newer computer, people are willing to give lot more than its worth despite its very low specs. I know if you did what I did to win10 on my old XP computers that it would be ok. But when computer like this is trying to not only do what you want, buit what M$ wants hidden in background, you are going to be very disappointed. This kind of computer you do one thing at a time with it. Be happy if it doesnt seriously lag while you are doing that. Dont expect miracles on equivalent of a ten year old computer.


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## Heritagefarm (Feb 21, 2010)

Tried to help her today but she wasn't home.... She may not be 100% upstairs, but I may try to work on it again later. I'll be sure to check on whether or not win10 is using too many resources. How do I reverse it? I'm not sure if that's too practical tho as Xp is no longer supported...


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## Nevada (Sep 9, 2004)

Heritagefarm said:


> Tried to help her today but she wasn't home.... She may not be 100% upstairs, but I may try to work on it again later. I'll be sure to check on whether or not win10 is using too many resources. How do I reverse it? I'm not sure if that's too practical tho as Xp is no longer supported...


The best way to check for resources in use is by going to the Task Manager.

If she's out if memory you might not be able to add enough to an older XP machine to run Win10 well. I suspect you'll find that she's short on memory and that it can't accept enough memory for Win10. Basically your options are these.

1. Add more memory, if you can.
2. Get a newer mainboard & processor that can accept more memory.
3. Get a whole new case & components that can accept more memory.
4. Revert to an alternate operating system can requires less memory.

I try not to fool with projects like that, if I can get out of it. My next door neighbor had a system like that and they couldn't afford another machine. I finally bought her a used laptop from eBay for around $75. Problem solved. I'll never see the $75 again, but it was money well spent. Now I can get on with my life.


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## HermitJohn (May 10, 2002)

Nevada said:


> I try not to fool with projects like that, if I can get out of it. My next door neighbor had a system like that and they couldn't afford another machine. I finally bought her a used laptop from eBay for around $75. Problem solved. I'll never see the $75 again, but it was money well spent. Now I can get on with my life.


You are going to run into this more and more if you keep trying to help people. But not from derelict XP computers trying to struggle with win10. As I keep SHOUTING, cloud laptops and tablets with 2gb ram and full blown win10 on 32gb eMMC drive are being sold as I write this. Sold this way for foreseeable future, though some manufacturers are getting a clue and starting to offer 4gb ram and 128gb eMMC drive, though at big jump in price. I suspect M$ says manufacturer only can use the free w/BING version win10 on super low spec computer. Not free if they offer it on computer with more memory or upgradable memory, etc. These cloud laptops have the ram soldered to the motherboard, you cant increase it. The problems of such poor running win10 systems are NOT going away as XP/Vista computers fade from the picture. 

Read the reviews of these baby laptops on Amazon. People are confused and upset with their performance. I dont think Microsoft is helping its reputation much by doing this. Chrome OS on similar hardware is a much lighter weight system so not going to annoy nearly as much. These clueless buyers feel scammed, personally I think its more just the matter of a huge corporation where the left hand doesnt know what the right hand is doing and not really caring unless sales fall way off. Few are savvy enough to go look for third party ways to lighten the load. Microsoft has made such very difficult (and what serious setting there are, now are hidden or command line only).


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## Heritagefarm (Feb 21, 2010)

Does the computer outsource it's processing to the cloud or something? That seems like a good way to lose your personal data and also a huge bandwidth hog if you have a bandwidth cap.


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## HermitJohn (May 10, 2002)

Heritagefarm said:


> Does the computer outsource it's processing to the cloud or something? That seems like a good way to lose your personal data and also a huge bandwidth hog if you have a bandwidth cap.


I assume the cloud apps work much like the online photo modification sites. You upload your photo, you modify it using the sites controls via your browser, then you download your modified photo. Running/processing of the photo shop program all done by the websites computer. But dont hold me to that, sure they have made it more sophisticated by now.

Whats funny is that the disclaimer you agree to when signing up for cloud space, apps, etc, relieves them of any liability if their servers go down and you lose data. So you still really need to back it up multiple places, probably including a storage hard drive setting beside your computer and plugged into a usb port.....

Thing is in reviews, most people buying these cloud laptops dont care a fig about making easy monthly payments to Microsoft for using the cloud. They just want a cheap laptop with win10 that they can use their own software. There are workarounds, but seriously most people buying such low end computer arent that technically savvy. To them its just an appliance in a box, should work like they want it without modifications. Like buying a tv or a toaster and without an ongoing monthly bill. 

I have helped local people with their computers for free in past. They do the dangedest things, somethings I would never thought anybody would do. Can be challenge to undo them. No matter how idiot proof you think you made some system, always somebody to find weak link. Like my cats walking across keyboard. How they hit just right combination of keys to delete something I've worked hours on....


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## HermitJohn (May 10, 2002)

I suspect eventually you will get a super minimalist operating system on such cloud laptop, and this only allows you to get online to a virtual giant operating system in the sky completely controlled and maintained by Big Brother. You cant modify it, only connect to it and use its approved apps. You pay a monthly fee for this access. Without access`your dumb terminal is useless as it has no resources or software of its own besides ability to connect.


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## Nevada (Sep 9, 2004)

HermitJohn said:


> Whats funny is that the disclaimer you agree to when signing up for cloud space, apps, etc, relieves them of any liability if their servers go down and you lose data.


There's nothing nefarious about that kind of disclaimer. I expect a disclaimer like that with free service.


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## HermitJohn (May 10, 2002)

Nevada said:


> There's nothing nefarious about that kind of disclaimer. I expect a disclaimer like that with free service.



Free for a limited tme special offer that you cant delete from your operating system without extraordinary means....

Seriously its a come on, limited amount space. Use more or use it longer you pay. EVEN WHEN YOU PAY, you still have that disclaimer. Depend only on that storage space at your own peril.

One called "The Hive" seems about best of free cloud storage. The others are very limited space or limited amount time before you have to pay. Being on metered cellular broadband, none of this has any appeal at all to me. Cost me lot more in metered data to move stuff around than it would just buying a big honkin storage hard drive to set by my computer.

EDIT: Oopsie, seems HIVE has shut down and as a certain date you were required to download any info you wanted to save or all chance of recovery gone. Hey thats wonderful, you have terrabytes of data stored and have short time to download it to different storage or lose it. Thats a great reason to store stuff in the cloud. Get put between a rock and a hard place.


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## Nevada (Sep 9, 2004)

HermitJohn said:


> Free for a limited tme special offer that you cant delete from your operating system without extraordinary means....
> 
> Seriously its a come on, limited amount space. Use more or use it longer you pay. EVEN WHEN YOU PAY, you still have that disclaimer. Depend only on that storage space at your own peril.
> 
> One called "The Hive" seems about best of free cloud storage. The others are very limited space or limited amount time before you have to pay. Being on metered cellular broadband, none of this has any appeal at all to me. Cost me lot more in metered data to move stuff around than it would just buying a big honkin storage hard drive to set by my computer.


Dropbox is free for 2GB, and Google Drive is free for 15GB. Those are the two cloud services I use. Neither has asked for money from me.


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## HermitJohn (May 10, 2002)

Seriously? 15gb is like three movie dvds with little extra for some photos! I guess such small free storage would be useful as an emergency lockbox for digital family photos and tax returns, in case your house burned down or tornado ripped it apart. Maybe other scanned documents. Stuff you would keep in a bank lockbox. But imagine most people would be wanting to store stuff like video and large data files. I have a couple one terrabyte hard drives and its amazing how fast they fill up. A 1T hard drive is now like $50. And thus the hook to get you to start renting space once you quickly fill up the free part. However with expensive metered data, yea, only small files need apply far as any online storage. I gave $4 for dvd copy of the free demo win10 iso rather than try to download it myself. Would cost me $30 or $40 in data. I can like I say see it useful to store photos and scans of important documents just in case. Have to encrypt them of course. Then just hope their servers didnt go down. Or they delete your account for inactivity.


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## Nevada (Sep 9, 2004)

HermitJohn said:


> Seriously? 15gb is like three movie dvds with little extra for some photos!


I don't archive large media files like that. I use cloud drives for storing user files (documents, photos, text files & scripts, a few specialized application install files, and the like) that I can't afford to lose.


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## arabian knight (Dec 19, 2005)

Ya really want to archive such large ones Put songs etc. on Cd's DVD's etc. You don't put those huge files like that up into the cloud.
Heck if I want to store a movie say one that is on Pay per view etc. Record it on the DVR, and then Burn it to a DVD. Simple as that. I have done many things like that and burned them to a DVD for future use.


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## Heritagefarm (Feb 21, 2010)

An acquaintance of mine bought a tablet that was super cheap, but she has to pay a monthly fee to keep it hooked up to the internet? What the heck did she buy?


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## HermitJohn (May 10, 2002)

Heritagefarm said:


> An acquaintance of mine bought a tablet that was super cheap, but she has to pay a monthly fee to keep it hooked up to the internet? What the heck did she buy?


Is it one locked to a particular cell phone service?


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## HermitJohn (May 10, 2002)

arabian knight said:


> Ya really want to archive such large ones Put songs etc. on Cd's DVD's etc. You don't put those huge files like that up into the cloud.
> Heck if I want to store a movie say one that is on Pay per view etc. Record it on the DVR, and then Burn it to a DVD. Simple as that. I have done many things like that and burned them to a DVD for future use.


So your argument for burning movies to dvd seems to negate your argument for using the cloud. If you can keep track of movies burned to dvd, why cant you keep track of your small files burned to cd or dvd? Am I missing something here? Maybe you need to buy a sharpie to label your dvds?

So why is Microsoft pushing cloud apps and storage so hard if it only has limited use for storing small files? Why not just go online and redownload them if you lose them?


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## arabian knight (Dec 19, 2005)

Heritagefarm said:


> An acquaintance of mine bought a tablet that was super cheap, but she has to pay a monthly fee to keep it hooked up to the internet? What the heck did she buy?


 Even if it is set up with a cell service you can use it on its own WiFi system, and that way you are NOT using it on a cell service, IF that is, you have a WiFi set up at home.
I made the mistake of ordering my iPad with a cell chip, ( Verizon ) But for the last 2 years I have ONLY been using it at places, and at home on the WiFi setting and have NEVER activated the cell service yet through Verizon. LOL And I have WiFi set up at home also so no need to even think of activating the cell service that i Paid extra for. 
When I get a newer iPad someday, it will only have WiFi capabilities and not cell. LOL
And even IF that tablet is cheap, it still should have a WiFi setting on it. So no need to just use it on a cell service. Heck even the cheapest cell phones you can use on the WiFi setting, bypassing the the cell and data usage.


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## Nevada (Sep 9, 2004)

Heritagefarm said:


> An acquaintance of mine bought a tablet that was super cheap, but she has to pay a monthly fee to keep it hooked up to the internet? What the heck did she buy?


Most likely an Android tablet, with a data plan through one of the cell phone carriers. I agree with AK, you can almost certainly use WIFI instead.

Android tablets will get the job done for basic tasks like email, Facebook, and light web browsing, particularly when traveling. But keep in mind that Android isn't Windows and will take a little getting used to. It also won't run Windows applications.


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