# The Destruction of Detroit.....a city in ruins.



## copperkid3 (Mar 18, 2005)

*http://www.guardian.co.uk/artanddes...otography-detroit#/?picture=370173054&index=0*

A photo gallery of some of the high life establishments of that city and their current fall into decay.


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## Canning Girl (Jan 13, 2010)

I saw those pictures yesterday, and they just make me sad. What a loss!


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## Ken Scharabok (May 11, 2002)

I've read where is not a single chain grocery store in the City of Detroit. Only small M&P places.

Somewhere I saw aerial photographs of parts of Detroit. Entire neighborhoods looked like bombed out cities in Europe after WW-II.

Decline from greed, corruption, free trade and technology.


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## rean (Nov 18, 2008)

Makes me think of the pictures after the Chernobyl disaster.


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## EDDIE BUCK (Jul 17, 2005)

Looks like a war zone.Sad,Sad.


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## jbowyer01 (Aug 4, 2008)

Oh so much history lost! Its a sad kind of beauty.


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## Txsteader (Aug 22, 2005)

Stunning. Hard to believe that's a major US city. It's as if people got up, walked out and never came back. So sad.


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## arabian knight (Dec 19, 2005)

Has been happening for years. The unions have made it so impossible for local businesses supply parts to the auto industry, because to do so they have to match the high wages of the UAW. So they simply moved out of the city OR closed.
Pretty sad that things like that has taken place.


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## 10ecn (Mar 12, 2010)

Like a science fiction movie. Everybody just disappeared.


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## Tricky Grama (Oct 7, 2006)

Yet they elect the same corrupt officals, over&over&over&over...


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## georger (Sep 15, 2003)

But is it merely the officials to blame or is it the community - all citizens - who also shoulder the blame for letting this happen to their community?

Elected officials only do what the voter wants them to do.

Yes it is tragic, but it's a sign of the will of the people so accustomed to a disposable way of life.


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## Loquisimo (Nov 14, 2009)

http://www.detroityes.com/0tourdetroit.htm

Enough Detroit to make your brain go on tilt. I think that the thousands of images accessible from this page cover much of Detroit city, as well as parts of the suburbs. And this isn't the only city in America's old industrial heartland to look like this-parts of Gary, Indiana, have been 100% abandoned since the 1970s. Much of the Northeast and Upper Midwest looks similar to this. Detroit gets all the publicity, but many more places are just as bad.


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## tinknal (May 21, 2004)

I think the most shocking image is the library. All those books, just left to rot.


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## Helena (May 10, 2002)

Blame the Unions ?? Huh ??:hrm:


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## Alice In TX/MO (May 10, 2002)

And the positive side:

Detroit community gardens
http://detnews.com/article/20100811/OPINION03/8110347/Detroit-community-gardens-grow-optimism

Revitalizing Detroit
http://davidebenjamin.com/revitalization-efforts-for-detroit-happening-in-the-most-unusual-places


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## pancho (Oct 23, 2006)

georger said:


> But is it merely the officials to blame or is it the community - all citizens - who also shoulder the blame for letting this happen to their community?
> 
> Elected officials only do what the voter wants them to do.
> 
> Yes it is tragic, but it's a sign of the will of the people so accustomed to a disposable way of life.


Very few elected officials do what the voters want them to do. The majority of voters do not have much in the way of memory. 4-6 weeks is about the time limit of their memories. Anything that happened over a month ago does not really count.


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## naturelover (Jun 6, 2006)

Aw, it's just turning into another ghost town like other ghost towns before it, only on a somewhat larger scale than most other ghost towns. People should go in there to retrieve whatever is salvageable and then bulldoze the rest of it down to the ground.

.


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## willow_girl (Dec 7, 2002)

I grew up exactly 15 miles north of Detroit and was fascinated by it from early childhood. When I was 15-16, I used to hitchhike down to the city (an adventure in and of itself) and stalk around taking pictures like that (a genre known among afficiandos as "ruin porn") with my first 35mm Minolta. I remember wandering in Grand Circus Park once at midday with not another soul around, just these haunted, ghostly skyscrapers and a few vagrant pigeons. Weird! 

I hear that area has since been renovated. 

Good blog: http://www.sweet-juniper.com/


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## Trixie (Aug 25, 2006)

pancho said:


> Very few elected officials do what the voters want them to do. The majority of voters do not have much in the way of memory. 4-6 weeks is about the time limit of their memories. Anything that happened over a month ago does not really count.


Are you cynical - or what? 

I totally agree - we have short memories and blinders as far as politics in general are concerned.

While wages due to the union's presence may have had something to do with it, there is no way it's that simple. The sheer waste there cannot be blamed on the unions. There was no reason to allow all those items to just be vandalized or lay around to rot. Yes, yes, the books in particular. Those could have been sold, given, or preserved in some way.

It had to take a certain mentality to have made the people who owned those things just walk away - and I don't think the union had anything to do with that.

That beautiful piano in the church -----------


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## Ken Scharabok (May 11, 2002)

Yes, the ex-library bothered me also. All those wonderful books...

Also the police station. All those old files rotting in the floor.

And that wonderful old house left to 'rot'. We have that situation somewhat locally. What are now commercial businesses in town were once Victorian-era houses. A gain can also be a loss.


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## willow_girl (Dec 7, 2002)

> And that wonderful old house left to 'rot'.


It was affectionately known as "Slumpy."

There were a number of efforts to preserve it, and at one point I believe the entire structure was moved to a different lot (!) but sadly it was a case of "too little, too late ..."

IIRC, the house's original owner had been a real character, and not exactly a nice guy ...


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## bjba (Feb 18, 2003)

> Elected officials only do what the voter wants them to do.
> Georger


I think the first two years of the Obama administration and the last few years of the Bush administration dispute your contention Georger.


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## sheepish (Dec 9, 2006)

I find it interesting that across the river, Windsor, which has about 1/4 Detroit's population, and a similar sort of reliance on big auto makers, just celebrated a murder-free 2010. (Compare that to Detroit at 379 murders last year). 

I think a big part of what is happening is what the people of the city are doing to themselves. Both good news stories and bad can come from the grass roots.


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## Laura Zone 5 (Jan 13, 2010)

copperkid3 said:


> *http://www.guardian.co.uk/artanddes...otography-detroit#/?picture=370173054&index=0*
> 
> A photo gallery of some of the high life establishments of that city and their current fall into decay.


My son is billeting in Flint right now....so I have seen this destruction with my own eyes. It's heart breaking.

It is very easy for me to sit on my comfy couch, in my warm home, on my fancy laptop and 'arm chair quarterback' who to blame, what should be done, "IF I WAS IN CHARGE" bla bla bla.........
It's easy for me to say "oh get a job"...when I can get in my car, full of gas, and go get a second or third job if I wanted to....any day of the week.

However, my question is this:

What can be done? 
I don't want to hear the blame game. This political party did it, the unions did it, the ______ did it......
I want to hear real solutions.
WHAT CAN BE DONE?

The first FIRST thing I thought when I saw photo's of the young men photographing? GET A MASK ON! These places are FULL of mold, and bird droppings, and bat droppings. BOTH are breeding grounds for hystoplasmosis, and irreversable infection that can get into the lungs, heart and eyes.......
The second things was.......the history. The lost history.
The third?
Thousands of men and hundreds of thousands of hours of labor went into these buildings. Someone took pride in their work when they constructed those buildings. People used to take their kids and grand kids by and said "Yep, I laid those bricks" or "I ran that wire" or "I plumbed this place" or "I installed these windows". 
Someone took great pride, in building these places.

Now look at them. 

What can be done? How do we turn this thing around?


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## MidwestGal (Nov 5, 2010)

So sad! 
On a side note, Hamtramck used to be a great Polish neighborhood where everybody knew everybody and kids were safe!
Thanks for the good links Alice!


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## pancho (Oct 23, 2006)

Trixie said:


> Are you cynical - or what?
> 
> I totally agree - we have short memories and blinders as far as politics in general are concerned.
> 
> ...


I agree, the politicians are part of the problem, the unions are part of the problem, but the majority of blame falls on the people of the city.


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## joseph97297 (Nov 20, 2007)

I need to head up that way and get some more radiators...... little sandblasting, powder coat and like new. So sad that people don't utilize them or recycle them.


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## Ken Scharabok (May 11, 2002)

I don't think whatever caused the 'rust belt' is retrieveable.

Remember the old joke: What is the difference between Cleveland and the Titanic? Cleveland had a symphony orchesta.

I lived some 23 years on the outskirts of Dayton, OH. Still have friends there who tell me the decay has started in the inner city and working its way outward.

I've heard Great Britian has a law you can't build on a site which previously didn't have some structure on it. Thus, to build an apartment complex or such is often on the site of an old factory. 'Nanny nation' or 'The government knows what is best for you', but some do make sense.


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## plowjockey (Aug 18, 2008)

Few U.S. cities, big or small, are the way they were 50 years ago.

Here is an interesting video on the present and future Detroit, from the glass-half-full crowd. 

These people are the future of America and it appears thay they are attempting to create their own destiny, verses having someone hand it to them. 

It's about time.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/music/musicblog/2010/oct/20/dirtbombs-detroit


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## MidwestGal (Nov 5, 2010)

I saw that video earlier I think Plowjockey. Is that the one where the business owner said, "where in the heck did 200 white kids from?" or something like that? It was funny and neat at the same time!


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## Laura Zone 5 (Jan 13, 2010)

plowjockey said:


> Few U.S. cities, big or small, are the way they were 50 years ago.
> 
> Here is an interesting video on the present and future Detroit, from the glass-half-full crowd.
> 
> ...


Somewhere inbetween the 397 murders that happened in Detroit last year, and this video is reality.....
I *can see* their 1/2 full glass........there is SO MUCH there to work with.
Just need willing, workers.


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## salmonslayer (Jan 4, 2009)

I always wonder what life stories happened at these old places. The Mrs and I drive around the countryside here and there are tons of old forlorn looking abandoned homesteads and you can see where someone in the past put so much effort into them and must have had vibrant lives there and its sad to see them all fall to ruin.

Besides the books, the old art deco theatres are what struck me. My family was originally from the Detroit area and I lived half the time in Battle Creek growing up and have great memories but the last time I was there about 15 years ago I didnt even recognize the place. The quiet country road we used to ride bikes on and play ball on was now next to a busy highway and the place didnt feel safe at all.

I guess they call it progress.....


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## digApony (Oct 8, 2009)

pancho said:


> I agree, the politicians are part of the problem, the unions are part of the problem, but the majority of blame falls on the people of the city.


There are many reasons for the decay of Detroit, Saginaw, and Flint... only to mention a few, and it is not the Unions, who are the "people" of the city.

General Motors' abandonment of Michigan is the most important reason for this decline, not because of the Unions, but because of mismanagement and corrupt business practices and most importantly corrupt capitalism and government.

I can name three new, super assembly plants built by GM, costing millions of dollars or more each, in the tri-city area that run at half-capacity or less. Also, the 20 year young fully modern Saturn plant in TN stands completely idle at this point in time. Small towns surrounding Saturn that once boomed for 20 years are now in a similar decline as Detroit. The Union did not force GM to build modern plants; to later abandon. I would say that GM failed to crunch the numbers in project management and research and development....or did they? In these days of corrupt capitalism, shareholder is king and dividends are worshiped; growth, _*or the appearance of growth*_, increases shareholder revenue. 

Please before you trash Unions, crunch your numbers. In the auto-industry, as in many other industries, Labor, Union or not, is the least of their cash lay-out costs.

Being that Michigan and Detroit is my home, where there has been much demonizing of Unions and auto workers on the National Circus News Arena, I imagine there are many that are reveling in our demise.

However, it would be wiser to take a closer look before it's too late. If this slum economy continues, Detroit will be coming to your little town soon.

digApony


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## plowjockey (Aug 18, 2008)

Loquisimo said:


> http://www.detroityes.com/0tourdetroit.htm
> 
> Enough Detroit to make your brain go on tilt. I think that the thousands of images accessible from this page cover much of Detroit city, as well as parts of the suburbs. And this isn't the only city in America's old industrial heartland to look like this-parts of Gary, Indiana, have been 100% abandoned since the 1970s. Much of the Northeast and Upper Midwest looks similar to this. Detroit gets all the publicity, but many more places are just as bad.


Thanks for the great link. Sad but very interesting. 

What an massive industrial powerhouse, Detroit once was! The architecture of the city, was nothing short of fantastic.

I hope some of it survives.


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## LonelyNorthwind (Mar 6, 2010)

Looking at those photos makes me think this country is beginning to witness it's own funeral. It's heartbreaking to see the beautiful work of so many hands in such neglect and decay.


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## digApony (Oct 8, 2009)

GrammasCabin said:


> Looking at those photos makes me think this country is beginning to witness it's own funeral.


yep, I agree.


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## Shrek (May 1, 2002)

All Detroit needs is a good razing and a few feet of trucked in top soil.


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## plowjockey (Aug 18, 2008)

digApony said:


> Please before you trash Unions, crunch your numbers. In the auto-industry, as in many other industries, Labor, Union or not, is the least of their cash lay-out costs.
> 
> Being that Michigan and Detroit is my home, where there has been much demonizing of Unions and auto workers on the National Circus News Arena, I imagine there are many that are reveling in our demise.
> 
> ...


This is all just part of the new American psyche, where somebody has to be blamed, for what is mostly a natural decline, cause by many different factors.

The small town near where I was raised, has a mostly empty and dilapidated downtown, including abandon "mansions". the Unions or an inept Government/taxes had nothing to do with it. 

Just like Detroit, Cleveland and nearly every other city in the country, businesses and families who could, moved to the suburbs, the suburbs of the suburbs, etc. Taxes and Unions had little or nothing to do with the movement, at the time. People wanted more space, newer buildings, less crime, less traffic, cheaper land, etc. The Suburbs are as much of an American phenomenon, as the cities themselves.

My little town tried to "re-vitalize" the downtown, during the 70's, just like Detroit, LA and nearly every other city, that was experiencing "white flight". Detroit spent millions building the "renaissance" center, to set a foundation, to attract businesses back to the downtown. Just like my little hometown - it didn't work.

Many other big cities have experienced a rebirth, in some of their worst areas, saving them from ruin.

Hopefully, Detroit can do the same, before it is too late.


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## vicki in NW OH (May 10, 2002)

The exodus out of Detroit began in the 60s with the riots. All the other problems just kept piling on. I go to Detroit quite often to Assumption Grotto and have to drive through this to get to the grotto. It's like another world. I have several friends from Detroit, and their families all left not because they didn't have a job but because it was not safe to live there.


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## digApony (Oct 8, 2009)

plowjockey said:


> This is all just part of the new American psyche, where somebody has to be blamed, for what is mostly a natural decline, cause by many different factors..


It is part of a collective response to an economic Armageddon; one of those being "denial". Blame it on someone else.



plowjockey said:


> The small town near where I was raised, has a mostly empty and dilapidated downtown, including abandon "mansions". the Unions or an inept Government/taxes had nothing to do with it. ..


I agree with not using blame game, however, there are many contributing factors and government for by and of big business is a huge factor in our economic decline. And yes, we are over taxed. Michigan property taxes, including deed stamps are extremely high. For a 1,000 square foot house on a small lot in Detroit is well over 1,000 a year...then there is State income and sales tax. Yes, Michigan has a tax problem. Everyone knows it. 



plowjockey said:


> Just like Detroit, Cleveland and nearly every other city in the country, businesses and families who could, moved to the suburbs, the suburbs of the suburbs, etc. Taxes and Unions had little or nothing to do with the movement, at the time. People wanted more space, newer buildings, less crime, less traffic, cheaper land, etc. The Suburbs are as much of an American phenomenon, as the cities themselves...


It is a common consensus in Detroit, and in it's suburbs, that the city was abandonded and suburbs built as a result of "White Flight". That is partly true. The growth of the suburbs of Detroit and many other cities were the direct result of the WWII GI Bill. However, City of Detroit is famous for "Block Busting" where Realtors and S&L's reaped $100 of thousands playing on the people's fears. Thus the loss of many once beautiful middle class neighborhoods in Detroit, and the making of a lot rich brokers. 
Also, Detroit's residential code has one little loop-hole... you don't really have to fix it, you have a right to waive it...just fill out this little paper and you can leave that gaping hole in your porch wall where all the big rats can nest.



plowjockey said:


> My little town tried to "re-vitalize" the downtown, during the 70's, just like Detroit, LA and nearly every other city, that was experiencing "white flight". Detroit spent millions building the "renaissance" center, to set a foundation, to attract businesses back to the downtown. Just like my little hometown - it didn't work....


Detroit Mayor Coleman Young was doing a very good job of revitalizing Detroit. In fact the ren-cen was mostly his baby. Since his term expired much corruption in City government has ensued. There has been a recent attempt in gambling with many Casinos along the River and throughout Michigan and the Stadium has been rebuilt downtown. 

We survived the Riots, Ronald Reagan's depression, the oil embargo, and more... we'll be back! :grin:

digApony [/QUOTE]


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## Ken Scharabok (May 11, 2002)

"The exodus out of Detroit began in the 60s with the riots."

A case of be careful what you ask for as you might get it?


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## digApony (Oct 8, 2009)

vicki in NW OH said:


> The exodus out of Detroit began in the 60s with the riots. All the other problems just kept piling on. I go to Detroit quite often to Assumption Grotto and have to drive through this to get to the grotto. It's like another world. I have several friends from Detroit, and their families all left not because they didn't have a job but because it was not safe to live there.


 I don't envy you having to drive through it. Detroit's ghetto is dangerous.

I was a child during the Riots and to me it was a war. Sounded just like Vietnam on the evening news.

digApony


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## digApony (Oct 8, 2009)

General Motors, in the '80's completely wiped out a nice, middle class, Polish community; nestled in the city, and built a fully modern assembly plant: "Pole-Town" which was then only running at half capacity or less and is not running much more than that now.

Every home, business and yes they even tried to doze the Polish cemetary, was destroyed.

digApony


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## Trixie (Aug 25, 2006)

You know, it is true that no city or small town is the same it was just a few decades ago.

Again, even if economics drove them out, the sheer waste is just inexcusable. Why in this country have we become so wasteful??? It bothers me very much.


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## Laura Zone 5 (Jan 13, 2010)

Trixie said:


> You know, it is true that no city or small town is the same it was just a few decades ago.
> 
> Again, even if economics drove them out, the sheer waste is just inexcusable. Why in this country have we become so wasteful??? It bothers me very much.


When I saw the photos I thought:

Look at all the 'stuff/materials' just laying there rotting.....I could use it for this and this and this and this.....

Most of the photos looked like they were in an industrial area, no neighborhoods in sight.

So...have folks come in and take what is useable, then tear down the old abandoned buildings that cannot be re-built. Start removing the blight. Then when you want to 're-build' you will start with a blank canvas.


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## willow_girl (Dec 7, 2002)

Most of what has been valuable has been stripped out of those buildings (copper, etc.). IIRC, some architectural details from the Lee Plaza ended up in a brand-new Chicago condo development. Its copper roof also was stolen.



> "As long as there have been graves, there have been grave robbers, and a lot of people consider Detroit a large, unguarded graveyard," Katherine Clarkson, the then-executive director of Preservation Wayne, told the Free Press in February 2002.


http://buildingsofdetroit.com/places/lee


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## Laura Zone 5 (Jan 13, 2010)

willow_girl said:


> Most of what has been valuable has been stripped out of those buildings (copper, etc.). IIRC, some architectural details from the Lee Plaza ended up in a brand-new Chicago condo development. Its copper roof also was stolen.http://buildingsofdetroit.com/places/lee


Maybe I am 'outdated' but the architecture, the design, the character in the train station, and the Lee.....are like NOTHING being built today. Today we build stuff out of popsicle sticks, but back then, they built palaces, that had integrity, heart, and character.

I hate to see these old pieces of history crumble. I hate to see that no one cares.


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## bowdonkey (Oct 6, 2007)

bjba said:


> I think the first two years of the Obama administration and the last few years of the Bush administration dispute your contention Georger.


You got that right!


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## arabian knight (Dec 19, 2005)

And don't forget the last 2 years of the Bush Administration was controlled by the Dem's.


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## 10ecn (Mar 12, 2010)

Laura Zone 5 said:


> Maybe I am 'outdated' but the architecture, the design, the character in the train station, and the Lee.....are like NOTHING being built today. Today we build stuff out of popsicle sticks, but back then, they built palaces, that had integrity, heart, and character.


Which is the reason that they are still there, at all. I doubt anything built today could survive the abuse and neglect that these beautiful old buildings have been subjected to. Today, we build in a new style, known as con-"temporary". The fitting symbol of a disposable society.


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## plowjockey (Aug 18, 2008)

MidwestGal said:


> I saw that video earlier I think Plowjockey. Is that the one where the business owner said, "where in the heck did 200 white kids from?" or something like that? It was funny and neat at the same time!


It was neat.

If Detroit (and every other down community), is to survive and maybe even flourish, these will be the people that will do it.

Everybody else has already given up.

*Ultimate Homesteading?*

Check out part 3 "Detroit Lives" (in the "more from Detroit" section)

http://www.palladiumboots.com/exploration/detroit


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## texican (Oct 4, 2003)

digApony said:


> There are many reasons for the decay of Detroit, Saginaw, and Flint... only to mention a few, and it is not the Unions, who are the "people" of the city.
> 
> General Motors' abandonment of Michigan is the most important reason for this decline, not because of the Unions, but because of mismanagement and corrupt business practices and most importantly corrupt capitalism and government.
> 
> ...


I keep waiting for a Marxist (corrupt or not... is there a difference) Collective {you couldn't call them companies, could you?} to start building cars, or anything. 

Of course it wasn't the goldbricking overpriced Unions fault... it was greedy capitalists (who realized if they continued paying exorbitant Union wages, they'd no longer be competitive, when workers elsewhere didn't make a fraction of Union wages... A few years back, I read where there was a 5K surcharge on GM vehicles, to pay retired Union hand's healthcare and other welfare payments).

As far as Detroit goes... you vote for the slave party, you'll always be a slave. Isn't Detroit one of those Democratic paradises??? I could google fu it, but I'm going out on a limb and guessing Detroit is >90% Democrat. 

I simply can't imagine why there are no grocery chain stores in Detroit? Could it be they are extremely smart people (in corporate hq's) who know it's not worth it. I wouldn't visit Detroit, daylight or dark, without a company of Marines with full auto phased plasma rifles.


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## Tiempo (May 22, 2008)

A complete aside, but I saw a strange thing in Detroit a few years ago.

I was driving through the city.. by one of the old, broken down auto plants and a magnificent pheasant, roused just like on a country road around here flew up from the rubble at the side of the road and past my windshield.


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## willow_girl (Dec 7, 2002)

Tiempo, just for you: http://www.sweetjuniperphoto.com/search/label/pheasant

The story of St. Cyril's: http://www.forgottendetroit.com/stcyrils/index.html always has touched me, perhaps because my ancestors on both sides of the family were Catholics who worshiped in churches like this. 

I had the pleasure of attending a Oktoberfest parish festival at an old Catholic church (still going strong!) up in Erie, PA, last fall, and for an evening experienced what community life and faith must have been like for generations past.


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## Tiempo (May 22, 2008)

willow_girl said:


> Tiempo, just for you: http://www.sweetjuniperphoto.com/search/label/pheasant
> 
> The story of St. Cyril's: http://www.forgottendetroit.com/stcyrils/index.html always has touched me, perhaps because my ancestors on both sides of the family were Catholics who worshiped in churches like this.
> 
> I had the pleasure of attending a Oktoberfest parish festival at an old Catholic church (still going strong!) up in Erie, PA, last fall, and for an evening experienced what community life and faith must have been like for generations past.


Thank you Willow, wonderful links, but so sad (St.Cyrils)


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## Riverdale (Jan 20, 2008)

MidwestGal said:


> So sad!
> On a side note, Hamtramck used to be a great Polish neighborhood where everybody knew everybody and kids were safe!
> Thanks for the good links Alice!



Now, there are very few Poles there. 30 years ago, I could go to a concert and have a place to stay (and all the food I wanted to eat) from people I have known my whole life ( people who graduated with my dad and moved from northern Michigan to Hamtramack to work for one of the Big Three.

My friends were shocked, until they remembered that my Dad grew up with these people.


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## secretcreek (Jan 24, 2010)

That photo slideshow made me so saddened. I recognised so many places. My relatives were all involved in working in factories/plants/foundries/coal burners/ from the early 1900's until most recently. I grew up in various places north of and south of Detroit. My father spent his childhood a few blocks from Belle Isle, on Charlavoix St. *(seen in Eastwood's recent Gran Torino movie scene where gang hassles girl on street). He recalls a beautiful neighborhood with mostly good neighbors and caring cops. He and his friends could ride their bikes anywhere-but does recall a man stopping his car and trying to kidnap him once.
He wanted to drive thru the old neighborhhood about 10 yrs ago...it was summer, he had his window down...my kids were in the car. It scared the crap out of me then as it was all boarded up crack houses with mercedes' parked out front, and gang members standing on sidewalks and we in our minivan looking like a misplaced loaf of wonderbread ...all white and soft. He was mad at me but I kept after him to get out of there quick. 

I just drove thru inner Detroit on I-75 the days after Christmas, and it looked like it had been shelled in so many neighborhoods. You can see directly thru the massive, once gorgeous art deco Michigan Train Station. Huge, once beautiful homes are now windowless, and abandoned. The government housing high rises were all windowless -scary looking areas now. It looks bombed out!

My brother lives north about 15 miles or so wedged between Detroit and Pontiac and is only beginning to understand what a target his posh neighborhood just off the expressway really is. His firm supplies engineering to the Ford Motor Company.

I love Michigan...but her once fabulously industrious river city- Detroit is dead, dead, dead.


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## Joel_BC (Nov 10, 2009)

MidwestGal said:


> I saw that video earlier I think Plowjockey. Is that the one where the business owner said, "where in the heck did 200 white kids from?" or something like that? It was funny and neat at the same time!


I just started reading this thread. I'm from way over west of the Rockies, in Canada (towns, villages, rural places, and _very_ small cities). Still, the topic is interesting.

MidwestGal, not sure what the quote you provided means. Must be a word or two left out? I'd like to get it: what _did_ the business owner say?


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## Beeman (Dec 29, 2002)

Most Americans will see this on their Korean made computer sitting in a Chinese made chair wearing Vietnamese made clothing and then will get in their KIA as they wave to the illegal Mexicans mowing their lawn while they drive to the Wal-Mart to buy more useles disposable junk. Along the way they might have a moment when they aren't talking,texting or tweeting when they have this thought pass through their head about the pictures of Detroit and say to themselves how could this happen?


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## plowjockey (Aug 18, 2008)

Joel_BC said:


> MidwestGal, not sure what the quote you provided means. Must be a word or two left out? I'd like to get it: what _did_ the business owner say?


I'll translate.

White people, who built Detroit, moved out of Detroit 50 years ago, leaving mostly middle class and poor blacks.

Today, (mostly) young white people, are seeing great possibilities, with what's left of Detroit and they want to make something of it. Similar to the revitilization of inner city New York, Chicago, Washington DC, etc., except it is artists and musicians, instead of high-dollar developers, re-doing the crumbling bulidings.

These young people will be the ones to save Detroit, if it is to be saved.


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## Laura Zone 5 (Jan 13, 2010)

Beeman said:


> Most Americans will see this on their Korean made computer sitting in a Chinese made chair wearing Vietnamese made clothing and then will get in their KIA as they wave to the illegal Mexicans mowing their lawn while they drive to the Wal-Mart to buy more useles disposable junk. Along the way they might have a moment when they aren't talking,texting or tweeting when they have this thought *pass* through their head about the pictures of Detroit and say to themselves how could this happen?


The key word here.
Pass...
If it doesn't effect their personal comfort and conveince, they simply don't care.
Welcome to the 'empty headed robot generation'.


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## ladybug (Aug 18, 2002)

Really Sad! I wondered the same thing, why are all those books still there when people could be reading them? Also all those case files that will never be solved, I looked up Highland park and there was a picture of the police station that still had a pistol in it, still tagged as evidence!


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## willow_girl (Dec 7, 2002)

> Most Americans will see this on their Korean made computer sitting in a Chinese made chair wearing Vietnamese made clothing and then will get in their KIA as they wave to the illegal Mexicans mowing their lawn while they drive to the Wal-Mart to buy more useles disposable junk. Along the way they might have a moment when they aren't talking,texting or tweeting when they have this thought pass through their head about the pictures of Detroit and say to themselves how could this happen?


A house a couple blocks from us has a permanent sign in its yard that says, "Out of work? Hungry? EAT YOUR FOREIGN CAR!" 

Ouch!


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## plowjockey (Aug 18, 2008)

willow_girl said:


> A house a couple blocks from us has a permanent sign in its yard that says, "Out of work? Hungry? EAT YOUR FOREIGN CAR!"
> 
> Ouch!


The sign seems both dated and ironic, since Japanese automakers employ over 400,000 Americans, with relatively decent jobs.


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## willow_girl (Dec 7, 2002)

Well, you have to keep in mind that Pittsburgh was a union town. LOL


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## plowjockey (Aug 18, 2008)

ladybug said:


> Really Sad! I wondered the same thing, why are all those books still there when people could be reading them? Also all those case files that will never be solved, I looked up Highland park and there was a picture of the police station that still had a pistol in it, still tagged as evidence!


It's likely that the money (funding) ran out, so they simply locked the doors and went home (to start packing).

They may have thought that more funding would be coming from somewhere, that they could re-open. Does not look ike it did.

This is just what it looks like when a city is broke and there is no more tax money to keep it going.

Might just be a preview of coming attractions.


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## Joel_BC (Nov 10, 2009)

plowjockey said:


> I'll translate.
> 
> White people, who built Detroit, moved out of Detroit 50 years ago, leaving mostly middle class and poor blacks.
> 
> ...


Thanks, plowjockey.

Okay... Plowjockey, I'll ask you if you feel this characterization of the situation seems accurate to you?


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## pancho (Oct 23, 2006)

Joel_BC said:


> Thanks, plowjockey.
> 
> Okay... Plowjockey, I'll ask you if you feel this characterization of the situation seems accurate to you?


It seems accurate to many cities in the U.S.
I live very near one which is now going through the same thing.


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## Ken Scharabok (May 11, 2002)

I know a little bit about the Washington DC situation. It started when Congressional and other young professional starting buying up and refurbishing structures within waslking distance of the Mall. Second factor was the DC Metro. When it was announced where a Metro station would be, there was an almost immediate buying frenzy within walking distance of it - again yippies.


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## digApony (Oct 8, 2009)

texican said:


> Of course it wasn't the goldbricking overpriced Unions fault... it was greedy capitalists (who realized if they continued paying exorbitant Union wages, they'd no longer be competitive, when workers elsewhere didn't make a fraction of Union wages... A few years back, I read where there was a 5K surcharge on GM vehicles, to pay retired Union hand's healthcare and other welfare payments).


Married to a UAW. Laid off 7 out of the 12 Reagan/Bush years. UAW is hardly "goldbricking"! I heard so often that we made "too much money"! haha! You couldn't prove that by any one of us!

And after losing everything you had from long indefinite lay-offs, it was all you could do to hang on and start over.

The auto industry is one of the largest profit earning industries in the world. They squandered pension money in the stock market and elsewhere. The UAW went to DC in a fatal attempt to stop it. Pension money should have been held in "escrow". And just exactly where do you think all of our Union Dues went? To invest in our pensions... so you see it was OUR MONEY!

General Motors, unlike Ford Motor Co, is unwilling to admit they mismanaged their company. Greed, yes greed on their part caused the collapse, not Unions. 

Too many car-lines and divisions is only one example. And the demonization of the American car, in which I see here, was just what the doctor ordered. I wonder where it came from? 

Ford Motor Co crossed the river a long time ago, before it was too late. Note: No bail out money for them!

Detroit is only a small example of the death of the Industrial Age. Unions in PA didn't cause the fall of the steel industry or any major city as a result. 

And if you want to see some real decay, look at the fall of the family farm! No Unions there. On the road to Facisim, the self-reliant, family farm must be first to go. And agriculture in general in this country has been consumed and destroyed by the corporate farming industry. And all of those ma and pa small businesses...? Gone, gone, gone. Try to get Wal Mart to buy and sell your lettuce. 


digApony


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## Shrek (May 1, 2002)

willow_girl said:


> A house a couple blocks from us has a permanent sign in its yard that says, "Out of work? Hungry? EAT YOUR FOREIGN CAR!"
> 
> Ouch!


I don't think that the Canada made Chevy pick up I traded off in favor of the North Alabama manufactured Tundra I replaced it with would have tasted good even if it had been manufactured at one of GMs Mexican plants and had a hot salsa paint job :rotfl:


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## digApony (Oct 8, 2009)

Shrek said:


> I don't think that the Canada made Chevy pick up I traded off in favor of the North Alabama manufactured Tundra I replaced it with would have tasted good even if it had been manufactured at one of GMs Mexican plants and had a hot salsa paint job :rotfl:


Canada makes Chevy trucks. 

digApony


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## digApony (Oct 8, 2009)

Total number of recalls; 2010: (this is not the number of vehicles recalled - Toyota recalled 2.3 million vehicles.)

NISSAN: 109
Toyota: 83
Chevy: 53

digApony


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## digApony (Oct 8, 2009)

Originally Posted by willow_girl 
A house a couple blocks from us has a permanent sign in its yard that says, "Out of work? Hungry? EAT YOUR FOREIGN CAR!" 

Ouch!

Not a sign I'd agree with. The people buying the cars American or Foreign are not to blame.

digApony


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## Shrek (May 1, 2002)

I have less troubles out of my Tundra than any of the rigs I have purchased new built by Detroit car jackers. Even with recent recalls toyotas are more dependable than any of the 3 Stooges of the auto industry have been.

The only product of the Big 3 Stooges brands I even consider buying now are vehicles manufactured before 1990.


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## pancho (Oct 23, 2006)

digApony said:


> Canada makes Chevy trucks.
> 
> digApony


And Mexico makes fords.


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## plowjockey (Aug 18, 2008)

Joel_BC said:


> Thanks, plowjockey.
> 
> Okay... Plowjockey, I'll ask you if you feel this characterization of the situation seems accurate to you?


It was characterized perfectly, IMO.

The Black club owner saw his business slowly disintigrate, over 30+ years, as more people moved out, of the area. Many murders were on his street.

All of the sudden, he sees a few (mostly) white people in the area, which shocks him. Then more and more start appearing, then they start begging him to re-open his great old club, so they can gladly patronize him.

He appears to be very pleased, verses giving up, packing up and moving out himself.

Maybe there is hope for Detroit.


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## plowjockey (Aug 18, 2008)

I have loved and owned Japanese cars, had had a good amount of disdain for Amerecian cars, since the 70's (for good reason).

That said, I recent purchased an 01' Chevy Siverado pickup with 166K miles, that IMO, is an excellent, well made vehicle.


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## arabian knight (Dec 19, 2005)

In a few weeks Nascar will start up again.
The first race is called the "Great American Race." Which is the Daytona 500.
All 3 auto makers from Detroit will be racing. Ford, Chevy, Dodge. And one foreign maker. Toyota.
And the only one that is made in America? you guessed it Toyota. So much for The Great AMERICAN race. Now it is the body styles. Impala, Fusion, Charger, those are not made in the USA. But the Toyota Camry is. And a person wonders why Detroit is going to the dogs.
And you bet the 70's way into the 80's were bad bad years for the Big Three, in workmanship, gas mileage, you name it. Way behind the times in keeping up with the Foreign makers. They fell so far behind that just in the very recent years they have been catching up. Lot of that is the price. How about this? Newt Gingrich Pushing Bill To Allow States To File Bankruptcy Allowing Them To Renege On Pension And Benefit Obligation. Boy the unions will have a fit over that and cry huge tears.
http://www.zerohedge.com/article/newt-gingrich-pushing-bill-allow-states-file-bankruptcy-allowing-them-renege-pension-and-ben


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## Ken Scharabok (May 11, 2002)

"I was reading that Newt Gingrich is getting some papers together that would let States declare Bankruptcy."

Last I've hear is Newt isn't even a member of Congress. He would have to get at least one House member and one Senator to sponsor his ideas.


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## willow_girl (Dec 7, 2002)

I just put 55,000-mile tires on my 2000 Ford Ranger, which has 170,000 miles on it already. 

I am hoping to replace the tires at least one more time before it's time for a new truck!


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## Laura Zone 5 (Jan 13, 2010)

Shrek said:


> I have less troubles out of my Tundra than any of the rigs I have purchased new built by Detroit car jackers. Even with recent recalls toyotas are more dependable than any of the 3 Stooges of the auto industry have been.
> 
> The only product of the Big 3 Stooges brands I even consider buying now are vehicles manufactured before 1990.


My 87 Toyota 4-Runner had 550,000 miles on it when we sold it to a hunter. That truck came to America, from Japan.
My 93 Honda Accord had 360,000 miles on it (I put every one of them on) when I sold it. It was built in Merrisville Ohio.
My 2002 Odyssey has 275,000 miles on it (I put every one of them on) and I still have her. It was built in Canada.
Just bought my son a 2001 Accord w/ 100,000 miles on it.........and didn't bat an eye because for a Honda, that's "just breakin' it in".

I will not own a 'new car' ever again. I don't want to be connected to the internet, or a satellite, ever. I don't want a car to 'stop for me' or 'slow down for me'. NO thanks.

It's so hard to find quality, that lasts. Nothing is built to last anymore.
My 02 Honda is not HALF the vehicle my 93 was. The 02 rattles, little stuff breaks (heat dial / driver visor / drive door handle....etc) it's just not as "solid" as my 93.


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## digApony (Oct 8, 2009)

willow_girl said:


> I just put 55,000-mile tires on my 2000 Ford Ranger, which has 170,000 miles on it already.
> 
> I am hoping to replace the tires at least one more time before it's time for a new truck!


 Hopefully, you'll keep that one rolling!

I've heard all of these arguments a million times. I think much depends on personal experience or if not, misinformation. 

I have a Saturn 2006 that I bought new with 220,000 miles on it. I maintain my car, change oil regularly, rotate the tires etc. It burns not one drop of oil and still runs like it is brand new. (Saturn also has a high number of recalls.) 

I just bought a 2011 Chevy Equinox and my auto insurance dropped 135 dollars from the amount I was paying for full coverage on the Saturn. It is five star rated by the Insurance companies.

The Equinox is built in Canada. The Saturn in Springhill, TN.

digApony


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## arabian knight (Dec 19, 2005)

And I have a 1989 GMC full sized PU with 300,000 miles what does that prove? Nothing. Nor does anyone that happens to have any vehicle from any company. Just means that you had one that could go that far. That is all. But the over all picture is what we should be looking at. Just because I have that many miles on it and I am only the 2nd owner, does that say I want to buy another GMC? NO


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## seagullplayer (Nov 6, 2008)

When I saw those pictures the first thing I thought was thank a union.

I'm glad others understand the situation too.

Union demands where a direct result in the closing of two plants I worked at. People whine about cooperate greed, but there is plenty of greed to go around.

If I can't keep my job by showing up everyday and doing the best I can, I don't need to pay a union to keep it for me.


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## plowjockey (Aug 18, 2008)

seagullplayer said:


> When I saw those pictures the first thing I thought was thank a union.
> 
> I'm glad others understand the situation too.
> 
> ...


If it were not for Unions, the city of Detroit would probably still be filled with autoworkers - making $5 per day.

Like em, or lump em, the Unions created the middle class, in America. This middle class determined that they would rather live somewhere else, than Detroit.

Have Unions outlived their usefulness? Maybe, but back in the day, they sure helped "Average Joe" make a much better life, than he probably would have had otherwise.


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## Laura Zone 5 (Jan 13, 2010)

plowjockey said:


> If it were not for Unions, the city of Detroit would probably still be filled with autoworkers - making $5 per day.


Yep, and now, instead of making 5.00 a day WE THE TAX payers get to pay them 75.00 a day to sit on their butts and watch oprah.

We had a plant here in Indy that was union. It was being bought by a private owner, who was not union.
They were making 30.00 an hour.(plus benefits) 
He was willing to pay 20.00 an hour (plus benefits) AND if they wanted to stay, and work UNTIL they could transfer to another union facility, that was fine with him.

Union workers voted no.
He didn't buy the business.
Doors closed.
NOW THEY ARE UNEMPLOYED!

Make that make sense. I dare you.


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## 7thswan (Nov 18, 2008)

It was figured with benefits they made $70+ dollars per hr. Detroit would have done much better if they would have torn down the miles and miles of empty homes and planted a tree in each lot. those trees would be about 30 years and older. Drive along the expressway, and you see nothing but empty houses,who wants to go down there. For the small area that is nice,it's just not worth it. And the Auto show, I got sick of seeing prototypes that never hit production. Boring. Been 20 years sinse I went to a Hocky game, actually the only reason to go down there is the Farmers market.


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## arabian knight (Dec 19, 2005)

Ya and Detroit would still be making cars, and not looking like a war zone either if no unions were around to mess things up. Many businesses HAD to move out, HAD to because the union Demanded They Pay their workers in those small places, pay the Same as IF they were at the plants making cars. And those small places that were used as out sourced businesses said, NO they couldn't afford those High Wages that the unions demanded they pay and either they closed their doors or Moved Out to make parts for places other then union controlled plants. And the wages would not be at minimum either, just those high wages for some dude standing there pushing a button so a Robot could do its work, or do other things that man once did. And as time got bad the plants no longer could pay all those high wages, and benefits that were promised years ago during boom times. Now they can't afford to keep that pace. 
Bankruptcy would have taken care of those old benefits, but nope the union got in their, and now control 30% of GM. Not good not good at all.


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## DaleK (Sep 23, 2004)

Friend of mine is a heavy equipment mechanic near Detroit. When he has to go into Detroit to do a service call on a construction site, they send at least one armed guard along with him to protect the tools while he's working on the equipment, as much from the construction workers that might be on the site as anybody else.


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## willow_girl (Dec 7, 2002)

> Like em, or lump em, the Unions created the middle class, in America. This middle class determined that they would rather live somewhere else, than Detroit.
> 
> Have Unions outlived their usefulness? Maybe, but back in the day, they sure helped "Average Joe" make a much better life, than he probably would have had otherwise.


Well said!

Even if all those former union workers agreed to work for the U.S. minimum wage, they still wouldn't be able to compete with ones abroad.



> An average Chinese wage of $0.57 per hour -- or $104 per month -- is about 3 percent of the average U.S. manufacturing worker's wage, according to data collected by Banister. "Equally as striking, regional competitors in the newly industrialized economies of Asia had, on average, manufacturing labor costs more than 10 times those for China's manufacturing workers, and Mexico and Brazil had manufacturing labor costs about four times those for China's manufacturing employees."


http://www.manufacturingnews.com/news/06/0502/art1.html


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## 7thswan (Nov 18, 2008)

DaleK said:


> Friend of mine is a heavy equipment mechanic near Detroit. When he has to go into Detroit to do a service call on a construction site, they send at least one armed guard along with him to protect the tools while he's working on the equipment, as much from the construction workers that might be on the site as anybody else.


I used to do custom Auto work down on 8 mile. Watched the Hookers work while I made coffee every morning. We had Armed Gaurds 24/7 probably because of all the gold plated items, but we got robbed all the time.


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## Laura Zone 5 (Jan 13, 2010)

7thswan said:


> I used to do custom Auto work down on 8 mile. Watched the Hookers work while I made coffee every morning. We had Armed Gaurds 24/7 probably because of all the gold plated items, but we got robbed all the time.


Is there any stretch of 8 mile rd that is NOT bad?


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## 7thswan (Nov 18, 2008)

Laura Zone 5 said:


> Is there any stretch of 8 mile rd that is NOT bad?


Good Question. Haven't been down there in a long time.


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## Laura Zone 5 (Jan 13, 2010)

8 mile freaks me out.


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## 7thswan (Nov 18, 2008)

Laura Zone 5 said:


> .......that freaks me out.


At the old?


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## Laura Zone 5 (Jan 13, 2010)

I will PM you


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## digApony (Oct 8, 2009)

Laura Zone 5 said:


> Is there any stretch of 8 mile rd that is NOT bad?


It used to be a beautiful country dirt road where my mother rode her horse.

Detroit is dead. Nothing but a tax dollar sucking "De-toilet".

digApony


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## Loquisimo (Nov 14, 2009)

digApony said:


> Total number of recalls; 2010: (this is not the number of vehicles recalled - Toyota recalled 2.3 million vehicles.)
> 
> NISSAN: 109
> Toyota: 83
> ...


Nissans are trash. All made in Mexico now. I had a 02 Sentra, and it BARELY got to 175,000 miles. ALL the Mexican parts failed at the same time, similar to the old joke about all the appliances in the once brand new kitchen that fail the day after the extended warranty runs out. And they were EXTREMELY expensive to replace! It simply wasn't worth it. I sold it to, appropriately, a shady Mexican used car dealer. He turned around and sold it on Craigslist, in a Spanish language ad, for twice what he paid. It never was registered again. As far as I know, the only "Japanese" car still made in Japan is the Toyota Yaris. I'm looking at buying one from Hertz. Toyotas are made in the USA now, Hondas too, and Nissan in Mexico. All Ford and GM passenger cars are made in Mexico too. The new Fiat is made there too.


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## tiogacounty (Oct 27, 2005)

plowjockey said:


> The sign seems both dated and ironic, since Japanese automakers employ over 400,000 Americans, with relatively decent jobs.


How about it. My idiot neighbor shows up for his lecture regarding our purchase of a Honda, and how we support furreniers and don't buy a-meeri-can cars. We bought it for the same reason we bought our last Honda. Quality, reliability and durability. This is the same neighbor, with the same tired speech about our last Honda, twenty years ago. There are a few problems with this guys "logic" however. Both Hondas were made in Ohio, where tens of thousands of Americans have had decent jobs for decades, building Honda products. He once had two little Korean crap-boxes in his driveway that he made his daughters buy for commuting to college. They both had had Ford badges on them, and he was literally too dumb to know the difference. He just bought his wife a new Sebring. Somehow he rung the bell and won the prize on this one too. He supports his fellow 'merri-cans by purchasing the biggest piece of crap on the market today. Naturally, it's lemon, that can't stray far from the dealer without needing a rollback ride home. Amazing. BTW, I have spent more in the last ten years on Chevy trucks for my business than this guy will have spent on his lifetime of vehicles. The fact that they may of been built in Canada or Mexico doesn't seem to click with him


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## chickenmommy (Aug 24, 2004)

I worked at 8 mile and Schoenherr back in the late 70's. Yeah, great part of town. It was pretty bad then, can't imagine what it's like now. I believe there is a western (suburbs) section of 8 mile that isn't or wasn't in a bad area though.


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## Joel_BC (Nov 10, 2009)

plowjockey said:


> If Detroit (and every other down community), is to survive and maybe even flourish, these will be the people that will do it.
> 
> Everybody else has already given up.


Something I still don't understand about this (thanks for previous explanatory efforts, though, plowjockey)...

Why might "white kids" be capable of making the difference? Their ability to access bank credit? Their average level of education? The fact that they were raised in homes that had hope? Families that modelled entrepreneurialism? Or.....?


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## digApony (Oct 8, 2009)

Loquisimo said:


> Nissans are trash. All made in Mexico now. I had a 02 Sentra, and it BARELY got to 175,000 miles. ALL the Mexican parts failed at the same time, similar to the old joke about all the appliances in the once brand new kitchen that fail the day after the extended warranty runs out. And they were EXTREMELY expensive to replace! It simply wasn't worth it. I sold it to, appropriately, a shady Mexican used car dealer. He turned around and sold it on Craigslist, in a Spanish language ad, for twice what he paid. It never was registered again. As far as I know, the only "Japanese" car still made in Japan is the Toyota Yaris. I'm looking at buying one from Hertz. Toyotas are made in the USA now, Hondas too, and Nissan in Mexico. All Ford and GM passenger cars are made in Mexico too. The new Fiat is made there too.


There is a huge NISSAN plant in Nashville, TN. Toyota has several plants in the U.S. There is one being built, or finished in Mississippi. If all GM passenger cars are built in Mexico then I don't know what my brother-in-law is building in Lansing, MI, or my friend at Pole-Town in Detroit and the many thousands of GM auto workers throughout the U.S.

What is wrong with building in the U.S.? You cannot blame Labor; Union or not, for corporate decisions that cause recalls. Labor doesn't decide to use the crappy part or engineer the design, they just put the part in and do what they are told. You don't blame bank tellers for the fall of the banks, and you don't blame our troops for war. Blame the corporation, not Labor in the United States.

digApony


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## digApony (Oct 8, 2009)

Joel_BC said:


> Something I still don't understand about this (thanks for previous explanatory efforts, though, plowjockey)...
> 
> Why might "white kids" be capable of making the difference? Their ability to access bank credit? Their average level of education? The fact that they were raised in homes that had hope? Families that modelled entrepreneurialism? Or.....?


Thank you. You hit the nail right on the head. 

Detroit has been left to rot for years and I haven't seen any white kids from any generation that gave a crap about it.

digApony


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## digApony (Oct 8, 2009)

Joel_BC said:


> Something I still don't understand about this (thanks for previous explanatory efforts, though, plowjockey)...
> 
> Why might "white kids" be capable of making the difference? Their ability to access bank credit? Their average level of education? The fact that they were raised in homes that had hope? Families that modelled entrepreneurialism? Or.....?


Detroit City Government made a huge mistake; under Coleman Young; by trying to level the playing field and for other reasons, by using their "Black First" policy: Construction bids are offered to Blacks first, the Police force is almost entirely Black, the Fire Department was, when I lived there, mostly White... but Mayor Young was dueling with that. Although I thought he was brilliant at getting what he wanted, Mayor Coleman Young allienated what was left of middle class Whites every evening on the 5 O'Clock news, and every morning in both papers.

Almost every City employee is Black.

The Detroit Institute of Art exhibits almost exclusively Black Art.

There is good reason for this effort, however, it is near to impossible for a White person to get a job in the City, start a small business, or win a City construction bid. And teach? Forget it.

Malcom X schools; which are public; are for Black children only.

I'd brave Detroit to see Black Art, but I'd like to see French Impressionism too.

In essence, the City itself does not offer much to middle class Whites, business or residential. Ford Motor Company has done a lot by building the new Stadium for the Lions and the Tigers. But Ford has a lot of money.

I liken this to the X - Shaker community. Completely closed and slowly dying.

digApony


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## Kazahleenah (Nov 3, 2004)

all those books, unused, just wasting away... and so many libraries begging for book donations... a shame.


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## plowjockey (Aug 18, 2008)

Joel_BC said:


> Something I still don't understand about this (thanks for previous explanatory efforts, though, plowjockey)...
> 
> Why might "white kids" be capable of making the difference? Their ability to access bank credit? Their average level of education? The fact that they were raised in homes that had hope? Families that modelled entrepreneurialism? Or.....?


Probably "yes", to all of the above.

If somebody is going to save Detroit, it won't be middle aged, or elderly Whites, or poor Blacks. That's already been proven.

One comment form the video that really made sense, was that the artist-types, love the city life, as in New York city, but it's just way too expensive to live there, let alone purchase any real estate. Detroit real estate is nearly free for the taking.

I have also heard that Gays are big, on revitializing run down neighborhoods. A Gay couple from New York, purchased the long abandoned downtown theatre, in my hometown, fixed it up and produces dinner theatre shows, which presumably, at least pays the heating bill. No way could they do this in New York.

Most run down houses are at least solid. Get enough people of any race, willing to make things better and a whole neighborhoods and cities could tranform, IMO.


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## digApony (Oct 8, 2009)

I hate to say this, but it is my observation after living in the City of Detroit for several years... Whites are not welcome.... tolerated, but not welcome.

The public school system has deteriated to the point where poor Black children are bussed in from the Inner City, without a lunch and given a pack of cheese and crackers with the little red stick and a box of milk.

However, the school board and it's superintendent have been popped for several scandals involving appropriation of money and enactments without voter approval.

I worked at the small elementary school in South Detroit. I saw the little boys and girls all struggling. Look up the School Board corruption on the Internet.

The people in power in Detroit need to take care of their own and their neighborhoods.

You will never get a house built better than a Detroit home.

I wish I could have jacked mine up and towed it to TN.

digApony


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## Loquisimo (Nov 14, 2009)

digApony said:


> You will never get a house built better than a Detroit home.
> 
> I wish I could have jacked mine up and towed it to TN.
> 
> digApony


True story: Due to a railroad realignment, the Central Pacific yard was moved from Wadsworth, Nevada, to a swamp near Reno in 1905. After some argument, the swamp was filled in and named Sparks after the governor, who didn't run his own state and was prominent yet powerless to stop the railroad from naming the town after him. (Two men had already turned down the honor.) The railroad paid their employees to cut up the houses in Wadsworth and ship them by rail to Sparks, where they were reassembled. They literally disassembled ALL of Wadsworth, including digging up the trees, and shipped everything to Sparks. Therefore, Sparks is the only place that has housing built BEFORE the town was founded. How many houses were shipped? So many that the town park was renamed Victorian Square in the 1970s, and main street renamed Victorian Avenue. These oddball houses were in great demand when Reno was booming during the housing bubble.


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## Txrider (Jun 25, 2010)

plowjockey said:


> Few U.S. cities, big or small, are the way they were 50 years ago.
> 
> Here is an interesting video on the present and future Detroit, from the glass-half-full crowd.
> 
> ...


Yup same thing happens in a lot of places.

Dallas had an abandoned district but it has all been recycled these days. The old central station is used as a nice loft/apartment place now, with a small grocery store and a bar on premises.

Even the little towns of Smithville and Bastrop of just several thousand folks had the old downtowns almost abandoned and all the old buildings boarded up but they are all thriving pretty well again now. It has been something to see.

If you have all that real estate with all those buildings that can be bought for almost nothing someone is going to see an opportunity in that and take advantage of it eventually.


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