# High losses for Bees



## BjornBee (Jan 17, 2011)

I have no clue to my own yards as many have not been seen in months.

But I will say that I have heard from a good number of beekeepers (From the Northeast) and it seems that there are some large losses being reported. Many of the losses started mounting up early even before December. I can't suggest a reason as it seems although the weather has been cold for an extended period, no real one item seems clear as to the losses.

I think once the cold finally breaks and the snow melts, there will be many beekeepers who will be checking out yards more closely. And I don't think the winter will be a good one.

What is everyone else hearing?


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## ChristopherReed (Jan 21, 2011)

I called and talked to several of my package producers here in the SE, seems they are planning on huge shortages and blaming CCD as the culprit. They will not meet demand this season. Seems almonds are gonna be short because of it this season to. Oh, and package prices have gone up. If it stays like this next year, its gonna be REALLY expensive.

-Chris


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## alleyyooper (Apr 22, 2005)

Some where I did a post that it was looking ugly out there in bee world. This was some time in early to late September. Checking hives found many that were bone dry of stores, comb had even been eaten from some colonies. All this uglyness I figure was due to our hot dry summer and other crappy weather even earlier. When the fruit trees bloomed early due to the early thaw and heat in April we had a cold spell so many of the fruit trees in this area provided nothing for the bees, in fact many back yard fruit trees had no fruit at all. When the Russian Olive bloomed in early May due to the early summer like heat we got about a week of cold wet rain, and frost again the bees got nothing and we got no berries on the Russian Olive for the birds this winter.
Then the Bass Wood bloom time rolled around in late May again early. Once again we had a week of cold rain again the bees got very little.

In the fall when we would normally see Golden Rod in bloom for weeks it dried up with in days due to the high 80F and 90F temps with no moisture, not even dew from the night. The Asters again dried up and didn't provide much.

Our honey harvest was about one sixth of the 2009 crop even with more (about 20) colonies and honey supers (about 40) placed . Most honey came from the yards either on farmer land or near farmers land that raises Alafa for hay. Even at the nursery with the 2 green houses found the hives empty and no stored honey despite the daily waterings the plants there get. Just were not enough plants.

We lost queens in mid summer so lost colonies since the drones for the most part were gone in late July and August.

We started feeding back Honey we had harvested from 2010 and several hundred pound left from the 2009 harvest. I am hopeing it was enough and soon enough to have helped.

I think the saving grace for us is the fact it has been so cold so long they really slowed down the motablizem and didn't eat as much.

But I am betting the looses will be huge come spring. I'm not even going to think about placing honey supers for 2011. I am going to work on rebuilding what we loose and maybe selling some nucs. Once the temps raise above 35F we will slide pollen patties in the hives some time in Febuary. Once they get i n the 35F to 40F I am going to be feeding heavy.


*Spring 2011 here in the north will be really ugly.*

 Al


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## ChristopherReed (Jan 21, 2011)

Mid TN did pretty well as far as honey production went last year. My hives were out flying yesterday (approx 50*) and today (almost 60* forcasted). Im gonna open them up and dryfeed. I know we are not done with the cold spells. I still have about 3 hundred pounds of sugar, and just ordered 1500 more. Hopefully the price will stay close to the same next year, but brazilian production was way down, and the market forecast is all over the map. Feeding might be expensive next year.

ALot of people in the local club meetings bees seem to be doing fairly well, with the exception that mice have destroyed some hives. But Feb-March seem to be pretty good hive killing months down here. We'll see I guess. But having ordered alot of packages, I cannot afford to replace alot of dead outs also.


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## FarmerGreen (Dec 11, 2007)

I checked on mine today. Three hives seem to be fine and 1 was dead. They still had plenty of stores but didn't go get them. There was a lot of honey in the super but they didn't move up to get it. They ate everything around them and died right there. What should I do with all the frames of honey they left? Leave it for the other colonies to rob?


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## ChristopherReed (Jan 21, 2011)

I would pull them out and scratch the cappings. The others will clean it up pretty quick. Dont leave them in the hives like this, It may lead to wax moths destroying it, or breed alot of SHB. Or just take it inside and munch!

That sucks about the dead out though, Can you give anymore details on this hive?


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## FarmerGreen (Dec 11, 2007)

Kinda new to beekeeping. Went into last winter with 2 hives. Lost both over the winter. Started over with 4 hives this spring(Late spring/early summer). One hive just didn't seem to take off. Requeened it once. Tried a couple of other things to increase numbers. But they went into the winter kinda weak. They never finished building out the brood box. I robbed some spare frames of honey from the 2 strongest hives and put it in a super over the weak one. I was hoping they would make it till spring. What else would you like to know?


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## ChristopherReed (Jan 21, 2011)

That would discourage about anybody from beekeeping. ITs hard to say, whats really going on. ANy bad pest issues? I cant believe they wouldnt move up unless something underlying was going on. How are the others looking?

Being in east TN, you are close to UTK, Dr Skinner is the entomology prof. He hosts alot of beekeeping stuff. Are you involved in any clubs?


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## Our Little Farm (Apr 26, 2010)

We have only lost one hive so far, (it was a late swarm captured). Other hives look fine. Hope they stay that way, we are dry feeding ours.


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## alleyyooper (Apr 22, 2005)

Was there brood under the cluster? Many times the queen will start laying sincve she doesn't really feel the cold and the brood causes the cluster not to move and leave it.

Not much you can do when that happens. Just take the remaining frames as is and place them on the remaining colonies. The empty frames store in a cool dry place away from rodents. Place them in garabge bags can cause mold.

 Al


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## BjornBee (Jan 17, 2011)

There are differences between the different strains of bees. Some shut down quickly in a dearth. Some brood right through a dearth. Some brood almost right through winter, while some strains shut down and go through winter with smaller clusters as compared to other strains. I think everything I just mentioned is standard thought and observations.

For colder climates, I suggest the use Russian and Carni queens. They shut down going into winter and for me anyways, I do not get dead bees from them not moving off the brood.

Southern breeders and package producers found out years ago that certain strains shut down in winter. Not very useful for an operation wanting to shake bees in February, even in warmer areas such as Georgia. If your a southern package producer, you want a strain that with a little feed, will brood right through winter.

There seems to be a couple breeders in the south offering russians and carnis, but more likely, they are shaking italian bees from prolific hives headed by Italians, then introducing russian or carni queens.

If your in cold regions....use a strain of bee that is in tune with the seasons. And one that knows when to shut down, and one not getting stuck on brood in December and January.

There are differences in bee strains.


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## ET1 SS (Oct 22, 2005)

My hives were looking pretty bad this fall. They never really grew their colony populations this past season, nor did any of them produce much honey. So I did not take any honey, and I placed my order for all new nucs months ago.


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## AverageJo (Sep 24, 2010)

I'm in NW Illinois. My hives are in the middle of our property and I've had enough snow that I can't get out there to check on them. Ok, I also have two young children that I can't just up and leave either. I'm still waiting for 35 degree day when it's not snowing so I can get DH to watch the kiddos so I can pop some patties on hives that have any activity in them! I'll let y'all know what I find.

I've GOT to find a club around here to hook up with. Need to find out if they're ordering packages in bulk for a lower price than what I can find. I'm afraid that by the time I crack open my hives and find out they didn't make it, all the suppliers will be OUT. Of course I'm working on getting equipped for bee swarm catches and removals as well!

I'm hoping and praying that all 5 hives make it, although I think at least one won't as it seemed weak when I was feeding it last fall. But perhaps they are Carni's and already reducing numbers for winter? Sigh....


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## ChristopherReed (Jan 21, 2011)

I believe you have a better chance at having a disease than it being Brood they wont leave.. I know closer to east TN, they had a pretty big outbreak of American foul brood. Was the hive that didnt do well, and died out this year placed in a hive that died last year? I bet there is more to this story. Was this equipment new the first year?


Bjorn,
I am Kinda in the south, (the real world, but not really beekeeping) Here in Middle TN. I have been breeding from Standard Italians, Hyg Italians, Fat BeeMans Mutts, Myn Hyg, Russians, Purvis GoldLine, and a few others. They all act Different, even the same breeds. But alot of them are just not as good producers as Italians for making big explosive growth. I feel that the best bet to really get alot of other good genetics out there is selling overwintered NUC's. Then you have Proven hives cappable of surviving a bit better. I think I would have to move to the bottom of GA or AL, if not into florida (AHB territory) to make any good packages out of alot of these breeds. Or have an extreme number of hives that I could only shake a few bees from each. Some are just down right SLOW.


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## indypartridge (Oct 26, 2004)

AverageJo said:


> I'm in NW Illinois. ... I've GOT to find a club around here to hook up with.


Any of these clubs nearby? 
http://www.isba.us/index.affiliate.htm


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## alleyyooper (Apr 22, 2005)

We raise our own winter suvior queens from the start we got with carnies & from removal stock that had been where ever for a couple of years. Most years they do well so I can not complain about how our bees do in the winter.
Didn't have any luck over wintering the New world Carnies we though might do a good job for us. The the VSH carnies also didn't do well for us.

We still had going into winter a few colonies of Itialians from 2007 packages and the off spring we raised from them. Kare calls them the southern gals and they need special treatment to get thru winter. 

 Al


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## BjornBee (Jan 17, 2011)

ChristopherReed said:


> I
> 
> Bjorn,
> I am Kinda in the south, (the real world, but not really beekeeping) Here in Middle TN. I have been breeding from Standard Italians, Hyg Italians, Fat BeeMans Mutts, Myn Hyg, Russians, Purvis GoldLine, and a few others. They all act Different, even the same breeds. But alot of them are just not as good producers as Italians for making big explosive growth. I feel that the best bet to really get alot of other good genetics out there is selling overwintered NUC's. Then you have Proven hives cappable of surviving a bit better. I think I would have to move to the bottom of GA or AL, if not into florida (AHB territory) to make any good packages out of alot of these breeds. Or have an extreme number of hives that I could only shake a few bees from each. Some are just down right SLOW.


That was my point. And I agree with your comments. They are explosive and brood many times right through winter and are easily manipulated in the south to have hives ready for shaking in February. A big contrast for the beekeeper in the north.

Bees from southern package producers are selected for certain traits or they use certain strains, to achieve a goal. And that goal, and the resulting impact or characteristics from those bees, are at odds of what is needed for the beekeeper in the north.

Fact is...if not for the southern package, 95% of all new beekeepers would not get bees every year. We have a serious shortage of northern bees, overwintered nucs, etc. But I would high suggest for those getting packages from the south, especially those with Italian queens, to requeen later in the summer with a more hardy queen from northern origins and a strain more in tune with the northern seasons.

Although I am not a huge honey producer, I know when I cut out all my Italian stock and went with russians and carni lines, my winter hive loss was cut in half based on just this strategy. And no matter what the honey production of one strain is to the next, I can not do anything with dead hives in the spring.


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## AverageJo (Sep 24, 2010)

Indypartridge - Thanks for the link. Looks like the closest bee club to me is 3 hours away!! Geepers. I think I'll try Iowa. Perhaps there's one in NE Iowa that's closer. 

I'm hoping that the swarm I caught last year will make it through again. At least that hive has made it through a winter. Then if I can catch more swarms and propogate them, hopefully I'll have strong hives for this area.


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## BjornBee (Jan 17, 2011)

AverageJo said:


> Indypartridge - Thanks for the link. Looks like the closest bee club to me is 3 hours away!! Geepers. I think I'll try Iowa. Perhaps there's one in NE Iowa that's closer.
> 
> I'm hoping that the swarm I caught last year will make it through again. At least that hive has made it through a winter. Then if I can catch more swarms and propogate them, hopefully I'll have strong hives for this area.


Use a few community advertisements in local papers (usually free), and throw an open house inviting beekeepers and anyone interested in starting beekeeping. Then form your own association.

I've held open houses for people thinking of getting into bees, and have had over 75 people show up on a Saturday morning.

Don't be afraid to start something new.


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## goto10 (Oct 5, 2009)

I started beekeeping two years ago and I've lost both hives for both winters. These hives were thriving during the summer. Actually the one that was doing best apparently decided to relocate itself elsewhere since there was not one dead bee to be found and no stores. These were all Italian bees, the first year they were re-queened with BeeWeaver queens. None of them seem to be working for me so this year I will be going with Russians and Northern Stock this year.


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## alleyyooper (Apr 22, 2005)

There is a problem finding a supplier for Northern queens of any breed. there is how ever a group in the Michigan tri state area trying to remidy that problem.

If you want to give some Mid Ohio queens a try check honeyrunapires.com for the possiablity of getting some NWC. Lots of people have had luck with those queens even here in the north. I also like the owner a fine person to do bussness with.

 Al


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## BjornBee (Jan 17, 2011)

Tim is also listed on the Northern States Queen Breeders Association's page. I agree, nice guy. If he can not help, try others on NSQBA website. Just punch up NSQBA.org
These folks might be what your looking for.


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