# Best small caliber , rifle\pistol combo ?



## fordy (Sep 13, 2003)

.............Been thinking about this Buggin' out deal and it seems to me that the 22 Mag would be the best small caliber for a pistol\rifle combo to travel with . The 22 long rifle is OK , but lacks the moxy to kill smal game at a 100 yards or so . I also realize that some or most semi auto 22 mag pistols seem to have jaming problems , or it seems so from my reading . Maybe someone would recommend a specific pistol that is a dependable semi auto . Then you get into the cost of ammo ; well 22 mag is higher than 22 long rifle but it has a respectable additional increment of knock down to compensate for the extra cost . 22 Mag rifles aren't that much more expensive than 22 long rifles and the weight difference is insignificant in my opinion . So , I'm thinking a 22 mag combo rifle\pistol would make a nice set of traveling hardware even if it had to be carried , INcognito in a backpack away from prying eyes . Give me your thoughts ! , fordy:cowboy:


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## Batt (Sep 8, 2006)

When was the last time you saw .22 mag ammo on sale at your local walmart or small sporting goods store? Availability of ammunition means a lot to me especially if I have had to bug out and am now on the barter system. 

Why would you be shooting small game at 100 yds? Get closer, then take the shot. I have squirrel hunted most of my life and have rarely taken a shot at over 40 yds, mostly under 25. 'Sides you can afford to shoot up a lot of .22 LR ammo to get to be a better shot.


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## Ugly Cowboy (Aug 14, 2008)

Adron said:


> When was the last time you saw .22 mag ammo on sale at your local walmart or small sporting goods store? Availability of ammunition means a lot to me especially if I have had to bug out and am now on the barter system.
> 
> Why would you be shooting small game at 100 yds? Get closer, then take the shot. I have squirrel hunted most of my life and have rarely taken a shot at over 40 yds, mostly under 25. 'Sides you can afford to shoot up a lot of .22 LR ammo to get to be a better shot.


Agreed!


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## magnolia2017 (Dec 5, 2005)

I have a .22 mag and a .22 lr. It costs less to buy 1000 rounds of lr than 100 rounds of mag. Yes the mag has more power, but if I had to choose between the two, I'd pick the .22 lr.

Maggie


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## Ed Norman (Jun 8, 2002)

I like a 22 magnum rifle. I've made quite a few one shot kills on coyotes with one. A 22LR is good for squirrels and rabbits and gophers up close, but a 22 mag is a whole lot better killer when the range gets out farther. I know some people around here who carry a 3" S&W 22 mag revolver when riding cattle in the mountains. That makes a really sharp, loud report but has pretty good energy. I had a 22 mag TC COntender with a 10" barrel that was accurate and strong. I've had Marlin rifles and have a Remington now that I use on older hogs when I butcher. 

Hunting squirrels in the woods makes it easy to sneak up when you have trees and bushes to stay behind. Sneaking up on a jackrabbit under the only sage for miles around is much harder and if you are hungry, a long shot makes supper easier. Same with antelope. There is no shame in a long shot if you and the weapon can handle it.


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

I'd get a couple of Rugers. They make a really nice 22 mag heavy barrel rifle, and the Single Six revolver comes with Long Rifle and Magnum cylinders


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## fordy (Sep 13, 2003)

Ed Norman said:


> I like a 22 magnum rifle. I've made quite a few one shot kills on coyotes with one. A 22LR is good for squirrels and rabbits and gophers up close, but a 22 mag is a whole lot better killer when the range gets out farther. I know some people around here who carry a 3" S&W 22 mag revolver when riding cattle in the mountains. That makes a really sharp, loud report but has pretty good energy. I had a 22 mag TC COntender with a 10" barrel that was accurate and strong. I've had Marlin rifles and have a Remington now that I use on older hogs when I butcher.
> 
> Hunting squirrels in the woods makes it easy to sneak up when you have trees and bushes to stay behind. Sneaking up on a jackrabbit under the only sage for miles around is much harder and if you are hungry, a long shot makes supper easier. Same with antelope. There is no shame in a long shot if you and the weapon can handle it.


..............Ed , I printed out a info sheet on a Marlin 983 , bolt action , 12 rounds , 22 inch barrel with a tubular magazine , 6 lbs. ; then a Browning T-bolt action(?) , 22 inch heavy target barrel , 10 round double helix mag , with walnut stock . Is the Browning a semiauto , I can't tell ? The Browning only weighs 5 lbs. , 8 oz's , this seems odd to me since it has a heavy target barrel and yet weighs less than the Marlin ? I got this info from Cheaper than dirt , but NO prices . They said they Don't(?) sell firearms(from their website) , and yet I was in a CTD store over in Ft.Worth about 5 years back and they had kinds of guns . Who knows . , thanks , fordy


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## damoc (Jul 14, 2007)

i like the 45 cal colt for a revolver/lever action rifle combo you can plink and practice very cheaply if you reload they have a wide variety of load possibilties including cowbow ammo and high velocity hunting ammo for
medium to large game.


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## fordy (Sep 13, 2003)

Bearfootfarm said:


> I'd get a couple of Rugers. They make a really nice 22 mag heavy barrel rifle, and the Single Six revolver comes with Long Rifle and Magnum cylinders



..................Thanks , I do want the same caliber as who would want to carry around 2 different calibers of Ammo . Besides , if things really get bad , 500 rounds of 22 mag is alot lighter than 500 rounds of 30-06 or 308 . And , you can still make some fairly long shots if you've got a scope . , fordy


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## Ed Norman (Jun 8, 2002)

The T Bolt is a straight-pull bolt action. 

I don't have a clue about Cheaper than Dirt, I've only ordered ammo and magazines from them and didn't know they had stores.


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## fordy (Sep 13, 2003)

Ed Norman said:


> The T Bolt is a straight-pull bolt action.
> 
> I don't have a clue about Cheaper than Dirt, I've only ordered ammo and magazines from them and didn't know they had stores.


..............OK , now I understand ! They DO have a store in Ft. Worth and they DO sell\stock lots of guns . thanks , fordy


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## fordy (Sep 13, 2003)

...........Just called W.Mt. and they sell the Ruger 10-22 in 22 mag for about $250 + tax . Now which auto pistol do I need . , fordy


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## Ed Norman (Jun 8, 2002)

Call Ruger and ask them to make one of these http://www.gunblast.com/Ruger-22Charger.htm
in 22 Magnum for you. Then you can share magazines. 

What are your choices in 22 mag pistols?


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## Old John (May 27, 2004)

I have a Winchester '94, in .357 magnum and a Ruger GP100 .357 mag to match it. They both handle the .38 specials for plinkin & small game.
Lots pricier ammo than the .22's though.
But, With hot .357's the carbine will take deer at 50 to 75 yards easy.
Everyone has different wants & needs.


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## fordy (Sep 13, 2003)

Ed Norman said:


> Call Ruger and ask them to make one of these http://www.gunblast.com/Ruger-22Charger.htm
> in 22 Magnum for you. Then you can share magazines.
> 
> What are your choices in 22 mag pistols?


................That's probably alittle out of my price range , lol ! AS far as pistols , There is supposed to be one semi auto that ranks above most others but I haven't really researched it , yet . My job keeps me pinned down in one location right now so I really don't have time to do any looking at the various gun stores over in Ft. Worth . My current job will probably end by the 21st of this month so maybe I'll have a couple of weeks to do some looking . 
.................With the economy being what it is I'm going to be very cautious how I allocate my scare resources(cash) . , fordy


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## texican (Oct 4, 2003)

Have you looked at a TC Contender? One frame, hundreds of barrel configurations. A pistol sized frame that can accept a rifle stock... everything from .17 cal up to .50 cal. You can have the frame, and a .222 (got one) in 10", a .223, a 22 Hornet, or jump up to the 'larger small calibers'... literally anything you need, can fit on this one frame. I'm wanting to get a 14" 30.30 or 7-30Waters... would love to get a 45-70. BIL has a match grade 14" .22 long... will cut holes at a hundred yards, if you can hold it steady.

Imagine one frame, two barrels, a brick of .22 and a box of a larger caliber... take hundreds of small game, and if you saw a deer, elk, or moose, slide on the larger caliber (takes under a minute to change out calibers) and knock down the big critter.

I don't know of many pistols that'll get out there to a hundred yards, accurately, in smaller calibers.

Beware of Contenders, they are addictive.


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## fordy (Sep 13, 2003)

.............After doing a google it seems that High Standard located in Houston is the only mfger currently making a 22 mag in semiauto . They have 2 models , one with a 4.5 inch barrel , and one with a 6 inch barrel , both in stainless . Both are priced at $695 but maybe alittle higher now . This would seem to be a very desirable set of protective tools for "bugging out" ; 500 rounds is a very acceptable level of Ammo both weight wise and size wise . 22 Mag is capable of taking either 2 or 4 legged quarry depending on the job at hand . , fordy


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

fordy said:


> .............After doing a google it seems that High Standard located in Houston is *the only mfger currently making a 22 mag in semiauto .* They have 2 models , one with a 4.5 inch barrel , and one with a 6 inch barrel , both in stainless . Both are priced at $695 but maybe alittle higher now . This would seem to be a very desirable set of protective tools for "bugging out" ; 500 rounds is a very acceptable level of Ammo both weight wise and size wise . 22 Mag is capable of taking either 2 or 4 legged quarry depending on the job at hand . , fordy


No one has ever made a RELIABLE semi auto 22 mag.

The long case presents a LOT of problems. Stick with a bolt or lever action if youre set on a Magnum


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## Graystone (May 1, 2008)

Savage made a model 24 over/under rifle. Single shot each. I donât see it listed on the Savage web page. Years ago a friend lent me his 22 magnum/20 gauge shotgun. I always thought that would make a good choice if you were going to have one survival rifle for small game.


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## Haggis (Mar 11, 2004)

If one wanted to spend not a lot of money on a revolver and rifle, a Heritage Rough Rider single action .22 revolver, and a Henry lever action .22 would make great choices. One could shop around a wee bit and have the pair for a touch over $300, and certainly under $350.

edited to add: Both made in America as far as I know; I own a Henry lever action .22 rifle, and the Heritage Rough Rider or the Bird's Head (same company, different grips style) is supposed to be made here as well.


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## wogglebug (May 22, 2004)

The .22WRM pistol/long-gun combo is a great team. The Single-Six is a good combo, because it can use both the more common .22LR and the .22WRM, with swap cylinders. You can use .22LR in .22WMR long guns in desperation times, provided you realise it will damage the capability of the rifle to handle .22WMR in the future. Maybe a Thompson Contender with .22LR/.22WRM/heavy calibre/shotgun barrels would be a good long-gun compromise. You can carry a lot of shots in a small package with .22 WRM.

Another good pair is a .357 magnum pistol and carbine. You can reload those, cast your own, and a .38 Special semi-wadcutter gets down near rimfire energy and doesn't destroy a rabbit, while .357 Magnum gets up towards deer-killing energy. Not good, but workable - some black-powder muskets worked with less, although knockdown power is not ideal. Another pairing would be .44 Magnum - the .44 Special semi-wadcutter would handle low-end; and the .44 Magnum is definitely good deer or black bear, even grizzly medicine. The .357 or .44 Magnums have the advantage of being reloadable by black powder, and still being a respectable calibre in both pistol and carbine.


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## Michael Kawalek (Jun 21, 2007)

I agree with the other posters. The 22Mag doesn't have enough energy, lacks availabliity, and not too many guns are made in it today. I do have both .357Mag and 44Mag combo in rifle and revolver, for the same reasons, power, reloadability, and availabilty. Another bonus is that 38 specials are a great round for training beginning shooters and have only slightly more recoil in a rifle than a .22. Perfect for my wife and kids!
Michael


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## Greg H. (Sep 27, 2008)

.22 mag is ok, but it's not something that I would carry. It's kind of a specialty ammo, and for the price of your ammo, and your firearm, you can do better.

Look at the game you want to shoot first.

If you are going to stick with rabbits and squirrels, and keep your shots to less than 50-75 yrds ( even with scope ), then the .22 mag should work out fine. With larger animals, keep the range down, and don't try it with anything larger than a coyote.

A .223 Rem / 5.56mm NATO, will do everything you ask of a .22 mag, but it will do it better and is base end for medium game, and with a chamber adapter it will still shoot .22 LR. Surplus ammo is available and reasonably inexpensive. Learn reloading, and the price per shot comes down even further and you can tailor your ammo for shooting small animals without destroying much meat.

7.62x39mm / 7.62 Soviet, not a bad little cartridge, it is actually the parent of several rounds that are routinely used in shooting matches. Think of it as a Soviet 30-30, in terms of capability. Surplus ammo is fairly easy to come by and by reloading you can tailor your ammo to the task. Chamber adapters are available that will let you use a variety of pistol ammo that has a similar bullet diameter. This is the minimum I would use for deer sized animals.

Move up one more step, and you have the 7.62mm NATO / .308 Win. Almost as good as the 30.06, again surplus ammo is readily available, and with chamber adapters you can shoot a wide variety of ammo from .32 S&W pistol to .30 carbine, and even 7.62 Soviet which is still very affordable. Again with reloading, you can tailor ammo to shoot just about everything from rabbit and squirrels, up through medium and large game - there are very few animals that can not be taken with a .308 / 7.62mm. 
One word of note, 7.62 NATO and .308 Win. are not the same - almost identical and to the untrained they are the same, but, commercial .308 Win ammo is held to a higher chamber pressure and a tighter throat tolerances than 7.62 NATO is - this means that while it's reasonably safe to use 7.62 NATO in .308 Win firearms, the margin of safety of using .308 Win in military 7.62 NATO firearms is lowered.


Step up ( a half step actually ) from the 308 win / 7.62 NATO, and you have the 30.06. The .06 will do everything that the .308 Win can and do it better, even to the point of using ( with an adapter ) both .308 Win ammo and 7.62 NATO both without the safety issues. With any given bullet, the .06 will give you from 150 to 300 fps more velocity, and that translates to increased range and bullet energy.


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## Ed Norman (Jun 8, 2002)

22 magnums are indeed more expensive than 22 LR. But 22 LR are more expensive than air rifle pellets. And pellets are more expensive than BBs. Where do we stop? Sometimes you have to pay the price to get the gun that you want.


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## fordy (Sep 13, 2003)

............Funny thing is I printed out 2 pages of Ammo choices from cheaper than dirt for 22 mag ; there was 25 different choices too choose from and probably 7 or 8 different mfgers . Most were priced from $8 to $11 per box . The low was $7.09 up to $28.69 . So , it seems to me that there is a multiplicity of choices here that would satisify almost anyone's particular needs for a 22 mag caliber weapon . , fordy


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## unregistered29228 (Jan 9, 2008)

fordy said:


> ............Funny thing is I printed out 2 pages of Ammo choices from cheaper than dirt for 22 mag ; there was 25 different choices too choose from and probably 7 or 8 different mfgers . Most were priced from $8 to $11 per box . The low was $7.09 up to $28.69 . So , it seems to me that there is a multiplicity of choices here that would satisify almost anyone's particular needs for a 22 mag caliber weapon . , fordy


For our long term ammo storage, we didn't go with any off brands....you never know when that dollar you saved will bite you in the rump. We shoot off brands for target practice, but stick to Remington, Winchester, Federal for stocking up.


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## Gary in ohio (May 11, 2002)

If I was going with a rifle A savage 24 would be nice, 22LR and 410, Nice little over under.


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## radiofish (Mar 30, 2007)

Greg H. said:


> .Move up one more step, and you have the 7.62mm NATO / .308 Win. Almost as good as the 30.06, again surplus ammo is readily available, and with chamber adapters you can shoot a wide variety of ammo from .32 S&W pistol to .30 carbine, and even 7.62 Soviet which is still very affordable. Again with reloading, you can tailor ammo to shoot just about everything from rabbit and squirrels, up through medium and large game - there are very few animals that can not be taken with a .308 / 7.62mm.
> 
> One word of note, 7.62 NATO and .308 Win. are not the same - almost identical and to the untrained they are the same, but, commercial .308 Win ammo is held to a higher chamber pressure and a tighter throat tolerances than 7.62 NATO is - this means that while it's reasonably safe to use 7.62 NATO in .308 Win firearms, the margin of safety of using .308 Win in military 7.62 NATO firearms is lowered.


In refering to the 7.62mm Soviet do you mean the 7.62X39mm or the 7.62X54mm Russian??? The 7.62X51mm N.A.T.O./ .308 Winchester is not interchangable with the 7.62X54mm Russian cartridge!!!! Regardless of using so called chamber adapters.

I am suprised that no one suggested the military .30 caliber carbine round. Ruger makes a revolver chambered in .30 caliber carbine, and of course the M-1 carbine Mil-Surplus weapon.

I am like Old John with having a Ruger GP-100 revolver w/ 6" heavy barrel - adjustable target sights/ plus a Winchester 1894AE and a Marlin model 1895 (w/ optics) lever action carbines chambered in .357 magnum/ .38 special.

My Browning Buckmark semi-auto pistol in .22LR - 6" heavy target barrel has never jammed on me, after firing thousands of rounds of different types of ammunition through it. The causes of most semi-auto jams are due to fouled weapons (lack of cleaning) or misfeeding magazines.

If going up against something larger than small game, the .22LR or .22 WRM rounds would just get large critters angry at you.:croc:


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## Greg H. (Sep 27, 2008)

radiofish said:


> In refering to the 7.62mm Soviet do you mean the 7.62X39mm or the 7.62X54mm Russian??? The 7.62X51mm N.A.T.O./ .308 Winchester is not interchangable with the 7.62X54mm Russian cartridge!!!! Regardless of using so called chamber adapters.
> 
> I am suprised that no one suggested the military .30 caliber carbine round. Ruger makes a revolver chambered in .30 caliber carbine, and of course the M-1 carbine Mil-Surplus weapon.



I was referring to 7.62x39.


The .30 carbine is not a bad little round, I would use it on small game out to 100 yrds, and base end for medium game out to 50 yrds or less ( with a long barrel ), unless you reload and use expanding bullets, then I would push it out to 100 yrds and even then on light skinned game. 

The issue with the .30 carbine, is that even more than 30-06 ammo, it is getting hard to come by - especially cheap ammo, unless you take up reloading.

One note, mil-surplus .30 carbines are no longer cheap. Almost all of the cheep mil-surplus consist of mil-surplus part on non-military receivers that vary from the original blueprints.


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