# lime or liquid calcium?



## mulerider (Jan 30, 2015)

I have 14 acres for a hay meadow, I was wanting to lime the field @ $30 per ton, 1 ton per acre. After ward the meadow has to be disced so the lime can be absorbed quicker I was told. I found liquid calcium on the internet one company Agri-tec i_nternational has a 55 gal drum which will treat 27 acres at a cost of $686 shipping included. Has anyone on here tried liquid calcium (calcium chloride) instead of lime and any advantages/ disadvantages? _


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## Hiro (Feb 14, 2016)

mulerider said:


> I have 14 acres for a hay meadow, I was wanting to lime the field @ $30 per ton, 1 ton per acre. After ward the meadow has to be disced so the lime can be absorbed quicker I was told. I found liquid calcium on the internet one company Agri-tec i_nternational has a 55 gal drum which will treat 27 acres at a cost of $686 shipping included. Has anyone on here tried liquid calcium (calcium chloride) instead of lime and any advantages/ disadvantages? _


Calcium chloride will acidify your soil. If you are looking to raise the pH, lime is pretty much the only practical method that I am aware of.


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## mulerider (Jan 30, 2015)

Im still new at this but it was explained to me that liquid calcium and lime do the same things raise the ph in the soil it just takes much long for lime to be absorbed whereas liquid calcium is readily absorbed.Higher ph is what weeds and broom sage don't grow well in, whichh is what I'm trying to get out of my bermuda grass


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## Alice In TX/MO (May 10, 2002)

Disc a meadow? I do not understand why you would disc standing grass.


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## Teej (Jan 14, 2012)

We've never disced our pastures after adding lime.


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## mulerider (Jan 30, 2015)

Teej said:


> We've never disced our pastures after adding lime.


I was told it was so the lime could be absorbed quicker instead of lying on top of the ground and even blowing away, I dont believe the disc was set deep, and everyone does things their own way. The farmer I talked to sells several thousand round bales a year, so I figured he was knowledgeable about this


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## alleyyooper (Apr 22, 2005)

A lot is going to be how you are set up with delivery equipment. the cloride will require a sprayer set up I believe.

Make sure to flush it after use with cloride and use anti acid also.


I would stick with the lime were it me.

 Al


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## geo in mi (Nov 14, 2008)

I haven't tried it, but you should be advised of the hype beforehand. The real stuff is limestone more finely ground than the dry stuff you spread, and it is suspended in water for liquid application. Yes, it will act quicker. Drawback is that you will have to buy more by weight and take into account of the quality factor of the dry limestone, as well, to get the same amount qnd pH raising ability as dry limestone.(Because half of it is water....) Another drawback is that is possible to get something other than the real, finely ground limestone--which can be calcium chloride. Calcium chloride is a salt, like the stuff you pump into your tractor tires(in the north) to keep them from freezing. It will burn out: weeds, grass.......

Here is a sheet on the real stuff, plus a way to compare the two methods. See the summary at the bottom and _caveat emptor.
_
http://www.aces.edu/timelyinfo/Ag Soil/2006/March/s-01-06.pdf

geo


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## Wolf mom (Mar 8, 2005)

Before you go do anything like that get a soil test done. Your County Ag. Extension Office will do it for around $10.00. Best investment you can make before you mess with the pH of your soil. They really are knowledgeable about anything agricultural.
BTW: those "test kits" you buy in a garden center really don't work well. Have it done by a lab.


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## coolrunnin (Aug 28, 2010)

Alice In TX/MO said:


> Disc a meadow? I do not understand why you would disc standing grass.





Teej said:


> We've never disced our pastures after adding lime.


 Disc will put it in the soil faster, so will a pasture aerator.

Our extension office rents the aerator.


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## haypoint (Oct 4, 2006)

Lime can be calcium carbonate or magnesium carbonate. They mine a bunch of it in northern Michigan, mostly for steel production. When lime is ground fine, like barn lime, this powder gets to work neutralizing acid in the soil and bringing up the ph so the nutrients are available to the plants. But once it has done its work, it is gone. A more coarsely ground limestone, works slower, but continues to raise the ph over several years.
I'm no chemist, but I don't think I want to add chloride to my fields.


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## Allen W (Aug 2, 2008)

Lime is what you want.


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## Cabin Fever (May 10, 2002)

The calcium (and/or magnesium) in soil amendments DO NOT raise soil pH. What does raise soil pH are compounds containing oxides, hydroxides, or carbonates. Limestone is calcium carbonate. The carbonate in limestone raises soil pH, not the calcium.

Materials ground to a fine particle size and materials dissolved in water will react faster in the soil than coarser materials. The drawback with fine particle size is that the soil pH would stay raised as long as amendments with coarser particle sizes.

What we have found in Minnesota is that there are many producers of waste materials that generate byproducts that will raise soil pH quite rapidly (due to fine particle size) and many times are applied for free or for a reasonable cost. These byproducts include wood ash (from power plants and papermills), waste lime from drinking water treatment plants, and waste lime from sugarbeet processing plants, kiln dust from cement manufacturing plants, and waste lime from acetylene manufacturing facilities.


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## TroyT (Jun 24, 2008)

We put down a ton per ac here in western WA, every year more if you have cedar trees. I've used the pelleted (~1/4" dia pellet) lime which spreads nice with a broadcast spreader and breaks down pretty quickly. The flour lime is nice in beds that need a quick boost, but spreading it over a large area is a mess unless you have a drop spreader.


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## M5farm (Jan 14, 2014)

Soil test is necessary. From my experience broom sedge will grow in soil with a ph of 6.3 to 6.5 which is still considered to be acidic , you don't get neutral till you hit 7 . Getting to 7 in some areas is nearly impossible to do unless you have really deep pockets. Pelletized lime is a very expensive alternative and if you can get ag lime spread for 30 an acre it should be a no brainer.


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## AmericanStand (Jul 29, 2014)

I wonder if there is some confusion between calcium carbonate and calcium chloride?


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

mulerider said:


> I was told it was so the lime could be absorbed quicker instead of lying on top of the ground and even blowing away


It's not going to blow away if you spread it on existing grasses.
It will take longer to penetrate the soil without disking, but the effects will last for months anyway. Get the Ag lime delivered and spread and don't overthink things.



mulerider said:


> I found liquid calcium on the internet one company Agri-tec i_nternational has a 55 gal drum which will treat 27 acres at a cost of $686 shipping included._


Do you own the specialized equipment needed to evenly spread roughly 25 gallons over 14 acres?


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## Allen W (Aug 2, 2008)

Cabin Fever said:


> The calcium (and/or magnesium) in soil amendments DO NOT raise soil pH. What does raise soil pH are compounds containing oxides, hydroxides, or carbonates. Limestone is calcium carbonate. The carbonate in limestone raises soil pH, not the calcium.
> 
> Materials ground to a fine particle size and materials dissolved in water will react faster in the soil than coarser materials. The drawback with fine particle size is that the soil pH would stay raised as long as amendments with coarser particle sizes.
> 
> What we have found in Minnesota is that there are many producers of waste materials that generate byproducts that will raise soil pH quite rapidly (due to fine particle size) and many times are applied for free or for a reasonable cost. These byproducts include wood ash (from power plants and papermills), waste lime from drinking water treatment plants, and waste lime from sugarbeet processing plants, kiln dust from cement manufacturing plants, and waste lime from acetylene manufacturing facilities.


Waste lime from drinking water plant will be about the highest purity, most effective you can get. I would guess the same would go for the lime from the sugar beet processing plants.


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## rambler (Jan 20, 2004)

mulerider said:


> I have 14 acres for a hay meadow, I was wanting to lime the field @ $30 per ton, 1 ton per acre. After ward the meadow has to be disced so the lime can be absorbed quicker I was told. I found liquid calcium on the internet one company Agri-tec i_nternational has a 55 gal drum which will treat 27 acres at a cost of $686 shipping included. Has anyone on here tried liquid calcium (calcium chloride) instead of lime and any advantages/ disadvantages? _


You got some incomplete info along the way.

A soil test will tell you how much lime you need. Sounds like you are just guessing.....

Ag lime takes a while to start working, but it will last for 5 years or so. It will work faster if disked in, but that will be hard on your grass and stir up new weed seed. Just spread it and leave it, it will work and last for many years.

Finer grinds of lime will go to work faster, but will run out and be used up in 1-2 years. You would need less of these products, but you would need to reapply more often. These would be the water treatment lime and so forth mentioned by others.

Calcium chloride is used for weight in tires. It is very salty and corrosive. I have never heard it used as a spray on fields. Other than used as a weed killer, applied heavy enough it sterilizes the soil. If you mean a different calcium liquid; these are very expensive. They are quick acting but do not last very long in the soil, maybe not even through the one growing season. They can be a quick fix to a problem needing attention now; but would be a very expensive way to do any long term effects.

Your best bet is:

Do a soil test, $25 will find out several things about your dirt and what it needs most to be productive. So,e extensions or agencies offer a free one for small land holders.

Add Ag lime or a waste product fine ground lime. Some act real fast, others take a while to start working but will last for 5 years or more.

You can work in the lime to make it work faster, but I would not harm a good hay field doing so, it will just take a few rains to get the lime starting in to work without disking, not a big deal.

Stay away from the liquid stuff - it is either a very wrong product or at the least a very expensive, short lasting thing? You are not getting a good value for what you want to accomplish from the liquid stuff.

Paul


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## Jlynnp (Sep 9, 2014)

We spread lime in the pasture just before a light but steady rain and have had great luck with it. it has been 5 years since we limed the pasture and we will be doing it again this year.


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## M5farm (Jan 14, 2014)

I bought some hayfields 3 yrs ago and just got my soil test back last week. These fields were severally neglected the pH was acceptable the first year . I fertilized to test second year pH a little better , no lime needed fertilized to test again. This year pH up a grunt again no lime needed. Soil is Sandy with CEC of >4 . It's at 6.5 this year I have a little broom sedge but I cut 120 ton of hay off it last year. Several have said soil test is needed and it is an valuable tool. If I would have had to wager on it I would have guessed I needed to lime this year .


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## bobp (Mar 4, 2014)

mulerider said:


> I have 14 acres for a hay meadow, I was wanting to lime the field @ $30 per ton, 1 ton per acre. After ward the meadow has to be disced so the lime can be absorbed quicker I was told. I found liquid calcium on the internet one company Agri-tec i_nternational has a 55 gal drum which will treat 27 acres at a cost of $686 shipping included. Has anyone on here tried liquid calcium (calcium chloride) instead of lime and any advantages/ disadvantages? _


Your mixing issues.... calcium chloride is an excellent source of calcium.... but it has no agents to bind hydrogen atoms away to it cannot adjust PH thus has no 'liming' activity.

Liquid lime products can be used but i suggest it be done wisely. I only suggest liquid lime products if there is a need for a quick adjustment, followed by ag lime to give the residual longer term effect...


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## haypoint (Oct 4, 2006)

Cabin Fever said:


> The calcium (and/or magnesium) in soil amendments DO NOT raise soil pH. What does raise soil pH are compounds containing oxides, hydroxides, or carbonates. Limestone is calcium carbonate. The carbonate in limestone raises soil pH, not the calcium.





Cabin Fever said:


> and waste lime from sugarbeet processing plants, kiln dust from cement manufacturing plants, and waste lime from acetylene manufacturing facilities.


In my area, we have quarries that mine either calcium carbonate or magnesium carbonate (Dolomite). Both raise the soil ph.
Ground lime is use in the sugar beet factories to purify the sugar. So, when you buy the waste product from a sugar beet factory, you don't get the same bump in soil ph. Takes more tonnage to do the same thing as freshly quarried lime.
Many years ago, there was a Union Carbide plant in Sault Ste. Marie, that made carbide gas. They use ground lime in their manufacturing process. After being used, it was carted off to a dump site. Would be a wonderful resource on farm fields, except, they treated this waste product as garbage, so the piles of lime are mixed with cans of lead based paint, and who knows what else. This lime is finely ground, almost like a white clay. Would act fast, but be gone in a few years.


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## majiksummer (Sep 13, 2012)

Here's a really great article that explains the differences between ag lime and calcium chloride (CaCl2) and which you'd want to use to increase soil pH. I found it to be pretty accurate since it jives with what we've been learning in my soil and plant bio-nutrient availability class as well. 
https://www.no-tillfarmer.com/articles/4575-beware-of-alternative-ag-lime-product-claims


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## Cabin Fever (May 10, 2002)

haypoint said:


> In my area, we have quarries that mine either calcium carbonate or magnesium carbonate (Dolomite). Both raise the soil ph.
> Ground lime is use in the sugar beet factories to purify the sugar. So, when you buy the waste product from a sugar beet factory, you don't get the same bump in soil ph. Takes more tonnage to do the same thing as freshly quarried lime.
> Many years ago, there was a Union Carbide plant in Sault Ste. Marie, that made carbide gas. They use ground lime in their manufacturing process. After being used, it was carted off to a dump site. Would be a wonderful resource on farm fields, except, they treated this waste product as garbage, so the piles of lime are mixed with cans of lead based paint, and who knows what else. This lime is finely ground, almost like a white clay. Would act fast, but be gone in a few years.


With sugarbeet lime, you will have a lower calcium carbonate equivalent (CCE) per ton compared to aglime. But you do get (theoretically) the same rise in soil pH if you base your application rates on the CCE of the product. In other words, one ton of sugarbeet CCE is equivalent to one ton of aglime CCE. So, if one wants to compare apples to apples, he should first determine the CCE price of the product he plans on using. In Minnesota, the sugarbeet lime product is usually free. Of course, the trucking and application costs are higher due to the lower CCE and moisture content.


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## haypoint (Oct 4, 2006)

Cabin Fever said:


> With sugarbeet lime, you will have a lower calcium carbonate equivalent (CCE) per ton compared to aglime. But you do get (theoretically) the same rise in soil pH if you base your application rates on the CCE of the product. In other words, one ton of sugarbeet CCE is equivalent to one ton of aglime CCE. So, if one wants to compare apples to apples, he should first determine the CCE price of the product he plans on using. In Minnesota, the sugarbeet lime product is usually free. Of course, the trucking and application costs are higher due to the lower CCE and moisture content.


I'm not sure the beet company tests the lime they give away, or nearly give away. The cost of lime is mostly transportation and spreading. You are correct, apple to apples, CCE is the measurement you should use. But when beet lime is sold by the ton, farmers need to understand the differences and apply accordingly. Generally, if you live more than 60 miles from a Sugar Beet factory, you might as well just get the calcium carbonate.


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## Cabin Fever (May 10, 2002)

If you review the link I have posted below, sugarbeet lime has a relatively high CCE. In Minnesota, we compare liming products by total neutralizing power (TNP), which takes into consideration the products CCE, particle size, and moisture content. As you can see from the table, many sugarbeet limes have the equivalent or higher TNP compared to quarry lime (aglime). The reason most aglimes have a relatively lower TNP is primarily due to itheir coarse particle size.

http://www.mda.state.mn.us/licensing/licensetypes/limeprogram/aglimeanalysisresults.aspx


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## JJNelli (Apr 4, 2021)

TroyT said:


> We put down a ton per ac here in western WA, every year more if you have cedar trees. I've used the pelleted (~1/4" dia pellet) lime which spreads nice with a broadcast spreader and breaks down pretty quickly. The flour lime is nice in beds that need a quick boost, but spreading it over a large area is a mess unless you have a drop spreader.


Thanks for your advice, AND your quote!  PP almost robbed me of my daughter - who ended up being the joy of my heart and the most beautiful inspiration of my life! My love for her inspired me to garden and homestead. It’s been a long journey, but I’m finally planting down a little orchard, this spring! Cheers to a new adventure! God is so good!


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## TroyT (Jun 24, 2008)

JJNelli said:


> Thanks for your advice, AND your quote!  PP almost robbed me of my daughter - who ended up being the joy of my heart and the most beautiful inspiration of my life! My love for her inspired me to garden and homestead. It’s been a long journey, but I’m finally planting down a little orchard, this spring! Cheers to a new adventure! God is so good!


Good luck with your adventure. Once your orchard get well established, you can let chicken (if you have them) hang out under the trees to help with soil based pest control. The trees will provide overhead protection from hawks and other birds of pray.


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