# What do you do if the C-Virus spreads in the US?



## Oxankle (Jun 20, 2003)

Let us just suppose for a moment that the corona virus gets loose into the general population here in the United States. What will you do?

We are so situated here that we can isolate ourselves for months; so long as power is on we can live normally, but perhaps a bit more careful meal planning. If power goes off we can still go on for some time. The time can be extended considerably If I can continue gardening.


----------



## Robotron (Mar 25, 2012)

Keep 6 feet between yourself and others, wear a mask properly if out. But mainly as you say, isolate as much as possible. Sometimes these things are so hot they burn themselves out quickly. Also from what I seen on the cdc website it appears that this virus has high transmissibility but low on the severity for a “B” rating on their index. I’m immune comprised due to chemo. I do pay attention as I’m the one most likely to die from it. Even with the supportive care that can be given.
Edit; wash hands and keep them away from face. Don’t transfer it to yourself.


----------



## SLADE (Feb 20, 2004)

Isolate.


----------



## doozie (May 21, 2005)

We would stay home, we pretty much do anyway. 
We use the sanitizer wipes on shopping carts, have wipes in our car, and wash our hands when we get home as it is.
I wouldn't go out for any meals, salad bars,and buffets especially. In our case that would be the only close gathering of a large group of people we would be exposed to.
We are set foodwise for a long while as we always prepare to be snowed in with basic staples.
I really don't think we would dramatically change anything we already do during flu season, other than not going out at all if cases were reported in our immediate area.


----------



## robin416 (Dec 29, 2019)

Do like I do now, have a couple months of food on hand, stay home and talk to you all on the forum.


----------



## light rain (Jan 14, 2013)

Stock up on TP, meds and clorox. Have an alternative way to heat the home if employees get sick or get quaranteened. Stock up on animal foods and their meds. Good drinking water is essential. So is TP...


----------



## IlliniosGal (Jun 3, 2019)

I wouldn't do anything much different than I do now. I go to town once a week to the grocery, feed store and library, always wash my hands or use hand sanitizer when leaving the buildings.


----------



## Oxankle (Jun 20, 2003)

Many of uis on this forum are old enough to be in the danger zone if we catch the flu. Isolation, hand washing, be prepared-=-not a lot else we can do. If they develop a vaccine I will take it.


----------



## gleepish (Mar 10, 2003)

I think the virus is already in our general public. It may not be as severe here as it is in other places, but I think our number of confirmed infected is much lower than what the true infected rate is--but that is just my opinion.

Here at home we are making some changes in what we purchase from the store--much less fresh fruits and veggies (Just normal precaution there I mean really, how many times have you seen someone sneeze on the produce). We have stocked up a bit more than usual on paper towels, toilet paper, detergents, and bleach along with OTC cold and flu medications (not that they will do a lot of good against coronavirus, but just for general colds and flues if we can't go out).

We try to limit contact with the general public as much as possible but my father is currently in ICU so I'm spending much more time than I'd like to in the hospital--for a variety of reasons. 

I now carry hand sanitizer on my person at all times as well as in my car, and use it frequently when out of the house. I'm much more aware of touching my face. If my eyes are itchy or if I'm crying, I'll go wash my hands before wiping my face, rubbing my eyes or even blowing my nose. 

We aren't making huge changes, but we are much more aware in general of what/who/how we come into contact with. I think that's all you really can do.


----------



## Robotron (Mar 25, 2012)

Due to my immune system, any vegetables or fruits have to be sanitized for me to eat. Not a hard process but takes time. You can use bleach or vinegar for it. On the plus side things do last longer without growing things.


----------



## Wolf mom (Mar 8, 2005)

https://www.statnews.com/2018/09/26/cdc-us-flu-deaths-winter/

80,000 people died of the flu in 2018 per CDC. 

Why are more people concerned about the corona virus than the flu?
Doncha think we should take the same precautions?


----------



## light rain (Jan 14, 2013)

Wolf mom said:


> https://www.statnews.com/2018/09/26/cdc-us-flu-deaths-winter/
> 
> 80,000 people died of the flu in 2018 per CDC.
> 
> ...


I am more concerned because this virus has not traveled through our country before. No immunity gained from previous exposure. No vaccine and little accumulated knowledge on how it acts. Seems to me, as an old person, just a little intimidating...


----------



## Danaus29 (Sep 12, 2005)

I would thank God that coronavirus doesn't knock you down for as long as my Christmas virus does. But the cv would probably kill me, I'm still coughing up stuff from my Christmas bug.


----------



## thesedays (Feb 25, 2011)

gleepish said:


> I think the virus is already in our general public. It may not be as severe here as it is in other places, but I think our number of confirmed infected is much lower than what the true infected rate is--but that is just my opinion.


It's possible, but IMNSHO unlikely. However, I do believe that the general American public would be in less danger from a virus exposure than the general Chinese public because of less overcrowding, and better overall nutrition and health standards.


----------



## Shrek (May 1, 2002)

Since I have a years worth of canned and frozen vegetables and meat and my dogs have a year pack of heart worm meds , if it happened I would go into hermit mode and self isolate.


----------



## fireweed farm (Dec 31, 2010)

Wolf mom said:


> https://www.statnews.com/2018/09/26/cdc-us-flu-deaths-winter/
> 
> 80,000 people died of the flu in 2018 per CDC.
> 
> ...


Of course always take precautions. 
Higher death rate with the corona. 
The corona is a completely separate disease from the flu, it’s also brand new and if it doesn’t get stamped out like SARS did we could have both flu season and corona season.


----------



## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

Robotron said:


> You can use bleach or vinegar for it.


You can also just give it a few days quarantine since the virus won't survive long outside a warm body.


----------



## gleepish (Mar 10, 2003)

Wolf mom said:


> https://www.statnews.com/2018/09/26/cdc-us-flu-deaths-winter/
> 
> 80,000 people died of the flu in 2018 per CDC.
> 
> ...


_(The CDC lowered the deaths from the flu during the 2017-2018 flu season from 80k to 61k, Their reason is found towards the bottom of the page here https://www.cdc.gov/flu/about/burden-averted/2017-2018.htm .)_

61k people died from the flu with about 46% of the population immunized against it and we all carry a bit of natural immunity from being exposed to it several times in our lifetime. Take those two things away and imagine how many people would die from the flu every year. Now apply that to a disease that is showing signs of aerosolizing (making it at least as infectious as the measles) AND add the fact there is now indication of the virus living on surfaces for 5-9 days. 

We need to do more than what we do for the flu.


----------



## gleepish (Mar 10, 2003)

thesedays said:


> It's possible, but IMNSHO unlikely. However, I do believe that the general American public would be in less danger from a virus exposure than the general Chinese public because of less overcrowding, and better overall nutrition and health standards.


Those things will definitely make a positive difference!


----------



## CKelly78z (Jul 16, 2017)

-Stay away from crowded spaces, do your shopping in the early morning,
-wear disposable gloves, and mask (and dispose of them),
-keep from rubbing your eyes, or nose, 
-possibly wash the clothes you wore out in public after getting home
-buy enough groceries, and supplies to make up meals in advance (so no need to go back out)
-wipe down surfaces in your home that multiple people have touched.
-avoid the doctor's office/hospital if at all possible (where the sick people go, and are).
-step away from anyone who is wiping their nose/sneezing/coughing.


----------



## light rain (Jan 14, 2013)

Danaus29 said:


> I would thank God that coronavirus doesn't knock you down for as long as my Christmas virus does. But the cv would probably kill me, I'm still coughing up stuff from my Christmas bug.


That's a long time! What did your doctor suggest to get that crap outta your lungs? Did they check your D level?


----------



## MoonRiver (Sep 2, 2007)

Wolf mom said:


> https://www.statnews.com/2018/09/26/cdc-us-flu-deaths-winter/
> 
> 80,000 people died of the flu in 2018 per CDC.
> 
> ...


Flu is contagious AFTER a person develops symptoms. The CVn is contagious even BEFORE a person develops symptoms. It appears it can survive for fairly long periods of time on surfaces. Flu tends to be upper respiratory and CVn lower.


----------



## light rain (Jan 14, 2013)

thesedays said:


> It's possible, but IMNSHO unlikely. However, I do believe that the general American public would be in less danger from a virus exposure than the general Chinese public because of less overcrowding, and better overall nutrition and health standards.


I wonder what the percentage of people on required meds for heart, kidney, diabetes and immune disorders of China as compared to the US. 

While they are definitely more overcrowded I don't agree that their nutrition is below our nutrition. If that were true their massive number of people wouldn't be that MASSIVE...
Many of the first Chinese victims that we were told about were doctors with access to and knowledge of good nutrition...


----------



## MoonRiver (Sep 2, 2007)

To be protected, you should also wear protective goggles. 
It seems we get most of our masks from China and China is not shipping any out of country right now.

And don't take a cruise!


----------



## robin416 (Dec 29, 2019)

Here in the south the sniffles, sneezes and coughing is a common event due to allergies. I just saw my doc last week to get a handle on the cough from my allergies.


----------



## gleepish (Mar 10, 2003)

Because of some other stuff going on in my corner, I haven't paid as much attention to the daily numbers, but I do see that sometime in the last few days the US has finally listed three patients as fully recovered, so that's good


----------



## frogmammy (Dec 8, 2004)

light rain said:


> I wonder what the percentage of people on required meds for heart, kidney, diabetes and immune disorders of China as compared to the US....


The "required" meds for any disease are different in China than the US.

Mon


----------



## robin416 (Dec 29, 2019)

gleepish said:


> Because of some other stuff going on in my corner, I haven't paid as much attention to the daily numbers, but I do see that sometime in the last few days the US has finally listed three patients as fully recovered, so that's good


I saw that too yesterday.


----------



## jimLE (Apr 18, 2018)

I'm still doing thing's that ive been doing for year's now.
1st..i do my primary food shopping within the first 8 days of each month.

2nd.take someone where they need to go some where.even then.i don't go in if i don't need to.

3rd.ive been buying meds n all just in case it's needed.

4th..i avoid crowds when possible. 

5th..i don't handle anything i don't need to handle.

6th..I've been avoiding the produce section of grocery stores.

7th.been keeping home cleaner

8th.washing hands more

9th.no touching of others.and keep a distance of at least 8 feet from someone coughing or sneezing.


----------



## Farmerga (May 6, 2010)

Treat it like you should be treating the flu. Keep your hands washed, avoid areas where people congregate if you can, etc..


----------



## light rain (Jan 14, 2013)

I was shoping at Walmart today. I heard to babies coughing. Both sounded like they should be in a a doctor's waiting room. One sounded like pertussis. I remember hearing a baby in a tent in Childrens Hospital in Milw. decades ago. Our daughter had been hopitalized for asthma at the time.

I will try to do my shopping in early mornings now until summer hits full force...
Hope those babies are ok...


----------



## gleepish (Mar 10, 2003)

I've been watching the videos that Peak Prosperity puts out regarding the coronavirus. The latest update has some interesting information. 






This is the latest from Dr. John Campbell, another good one to follow. 






They both kind of take a middle of the road stance. They doesn't blow things out of proportion and they doesn't sugar coat it. Both are worth watching.

Am I a bit paranoid over this virus? Possibly. I won't deny it. I still say that it's better to be over-prepared than under-prepared.


----------



## robin416 (Dec 29, 2019)

Whoa, did you see the deaths are now over 1000?


----------



## gleepish (Mar 10, 2003)

robin416 said:


> Whoa, did you see the deaths are now over 1000?


I did, and in the second video I linked above, around the 9 minute mark he shows a Chinese website where they show there are another 24,000 suspected cases on top of the 43,000 confirmed cases, and about 6500 of those are 'severe' cases... I wish he posted a link to that site!


----------



## robin416 (Dec 29, 2019)

I'm on very limited data. Because of that I rarely watch any videos. 

A link I posted in the other topic on Corona came from the WU Flu site and it said pretty much the same thing. What is showing is a drop in the bucket for what is really happening.


----------



## Danaus29 (Sep 12, 2005)

light rain said:


> That's a long time! What did your doctor suggest to get that crap outta your lungs? Did they check your D level?


Decongestant and yes to D. The hospital couldn't even tell me what it is, just an upper respiratory virus.


----------



## MoonRiver (Sep 2, 2007)

gleepish said:


> I've been watching the videos that Peak Prosperity puts out regarding the coronavirus. The latest update has some interesting information.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I like Dr John but he goes too slow. Even when I watch video at 1.5, it just drags on and on.


----------



## MoonRiver (Sep 2, 2007)

I had to go to cardiologist yesterday for an ekg. People coughing and sneezing. It might be good practice to give people in waiting room masks to wear to keep from making other people sick. Not just for flu season or with the CVn, but all the time. Or maybe they want people to spread disease!


----------



## robin416 (Dec 29, 2019)

MoonRiver said:


> I had to go to cardiologist yesterday for an ekg. People coughing and sneezing. It might be good practice to give people in waiting room masks to wear to keep from making other people sick. Not just for flu season or with the CVn, but all the time. Or maybe they want people to spread disease!


Mine has masks sitting on the check in counter for those that are sick.


----------



## keenataz (Feb 17, 2009)

Honestly not a darn thing. I already avoid crowds. Have a couple of weeks food. But until the mortality rate gets higher or worse in normal healthy adults ( I am 60) not really too worried.


----------



## Evons hubby (Oct 3, 2005)

I plan to take a nap. Wake me when it's over.


----------



## Danaus29 (Sep 12, 2005)

robin416 said:


> Mine has masks sitting on the check in counter for those that are sick.


Mine does too, but many sick patients won't wear them. When I went to the er with this virus, I used a mask until I was told I could take it off. Since it wasn't the flu the staff didn't care if I wore a mask or not.


----------



## muleskinner2 (Oct 7, 2007)

robin416 said:


> Mine has masks sitting on the check in counter for those that are sick.


We keep then on the counter at my wife's clinic. If you walk through the door with a sniffle, sneeze, or red puffy eyes, I hand you a mask. Anyone who refuses to wear the mask, is asked to leave. Anyone who refuses to leave, is helped out the door.


----------



## gleepish (Mar 10, 2003)

muleskinner2 said:


> Anyone who refuses to wear the mask, is asked to leave. Anyone who refuses to leave, is helped out the door.


That is the best idea put to practice I've seen in a long time.


----------



## muleskinner2 (Oct 7, 2007)

gleepish said:


> That is the best idea put to practice I've seen in a long time.


Thank you. When we opened the clinic my wife didn't think I would make a good receptionist, I think I am getting the hang of it.


----------



## gleepish (Mar 10, 2003)

*First US evacuee infected with coronavirus was mistakenly released from hospital*

https://fox2now.com/2020/02/10/firs...v-DBFshF-oOCmQXJ09RG_tWSji_oEJHQf-ms55ek4GGaM


----------



## robin416 (Dec 29, 2019)

gleepish said:


> *First US evacuee infected with coronavirus was mistakenly released from hospital*
> 
> https://fox2now.com/2020/02/10/first-us-evacuee-infected-with-coronavirus-was-mistakenly-released-from-hospital/?utm_campaign=trueAnthem:+Trending+Content&utm_medium=trueAnthem&utm_source=facebook&fbclid=IwAR2IxLbdatDTQRv-DBFshF-oOCmQXJ09RG_tWSji_oEJHQf-ms55ek4GGaM


I was going to mention that and forgot. I asked a week or so ago about false negatives. Looks like it does happen.


----------



## gleepish (Mar 10, 2003)

Someone (I think it was Robin..) asked about where the cruise ships were being counted... according to wuflu.com Japan is now adding them to their cases.


----------



## robin416 (Dec 29, 2019)

Yeah, it was me. Glad someone finally claimed them.


----------



## Hiro (Feb 14, 2016)

robin416 said:


> I was going to mention that and forgot. I asked a week or so ago about false negatives. Looks like it does happen.


Misleading news, though not fake news. That individual was released from quarantine in the hospital back to quarantine at the military base.


----------



## robin416 (Dec 29, 2019)

Not false news. They didn't think she had it so they released her back amongst those that are so far not showing symptoms.


----------



## gleepish (Mar 10, 2003)

robin416 said:


> I was going to mention that and forgot. I asked a week or so ago about false negatives. Looks like it does happen.


It looks like this has happened twice in China as well... One of these days we'll have some good news, but it may be a while before that happens. 

Add that to the fact that there is evidence that China is excluding asymptomatic cases from the official count--who knows how many of those there are.


----------



## MoonRiver (Sep 2, 2007)

gleepish said:


> That is the best idea put to practice I've seen in a long time.


Only until someone sues.


----------



## MichaelZ (May 21, 2013)

What to do? Continue to eat healthy, get plenty of rest, and double up on my Vitamin C. 
I work among a lot of people so if it is widespread, I may very well get it. So if I do, I will have to fight it off.


----------



## light rain (Jan 14, 2013)

Danaus29 said:


> Decongestant and yes to D. The hospital couldn't even tell me what it is, just an upper respiratory virus.


Hope you start feeling better soon. Frusrating not to know what critter is causing you so much discomfort...


----------



## light rain (Jan 14, 2013)

gleepish said:


> Because of some other stuff going on in my corner, I haven't paid as much attention to the daily numbers, but I do see that sometime in the last few days the US has finally listed three patients as fully recovered, so that's good


Does that mean they can't infect anyone else?


----------



## MoonRiver (Sep 2, 2007)

light rain said:


> Does that mean they can't infect anyone else?


It should because it means no trace of the virus was detected.


----------



## Danaus29 (Sep 12, 2005)

light rain said:


> Hope you start feeling better soon. Frusrating not to know what critter is causing you so much discomfort...


Thank you. I'm feeling a bit better each day. It's just taking forever.


----------



## emdeengee (Apr 20, 2010)

Don't forget that you cannot/ should not wear a mask indefinitely but must/should change it if it becomes moist and never wear one longer than 8 hours . Also wash your hands well when ever you touch or adjust your mask.


----------



## light rain (Jan 14, 2013)

Danaus29 said:


> Thank you. I'm feeling a bit better each day. It's just taking forever.


Like that you're recuperating but not the "taking forever part"...


----------



## Burntfinger (Aug 28, 2013)

Oxankle said:


> Let us just suppose for a moment that the corona virus gets loose into the general population here in the United States. What will you do?
> 
> We are so situated here that we can isolate ourselves for months; so long as power is on we can live normally, but perhaps a bit more careful meal planning. If power goes off we can still go on for some time. The time can be extended considerably If I can continue gardening.


If you are not Han Chinese treat it the same as any other flu or bad cold. Most fatalities have been either Han Chinese or people who already have a very compromised immune system. Just another case of "We're All Going To Die!" syndrome. Like Ebola and a couple others I'm not going to bother remembering.


----------



## Hiro (Feb 14, 2016)

Is this the CCP's version of a mea culpa?

https://translate.google.com/transl...=http://www.yangtse.com/zncontent/276541.html


----------



## birdman1 (Oct 3, 2011)

i'm in chicago helping my mother, this being the spot with some of the first cases ;the lady who went into the hospital with it was here 10 days before going to the DR. at least she was smart enough to go to a high class hospital out side off the city and got put into isolation immeatly ,immagine if she would of went to one of the city hospitals to sit in the overcrouded ER for a couple hours ,and the busy airport where they had a person shooting pasingers some how said to be checking for tempetures as they trotted by exiting planes ,on the news i could see he may have checked 1/2 who hurried by and he was not getting very close to the passers by either . (would you be for the minium wage he was prably getting ) . i'm avoiding public places as much i can ,hand washing , have a box of masks have lots of home canned foods . like others i try to go to the store early ,and like i would any way, if i see someone coughing or sneezeing ,do an about face . IMHO our wonderful goverment dropped the ball on this one leaveing us unprotected , worrying more about slowing airport traffic down ,and their investments in the stock markets falling or staying awake dureing the hearings ,than protecting the health of the lowly taxpayers . i hope it stops as fast as it started but will not stop being extreamly cautious for a few weeks any way . i wish i was on the farm but i'm stuck here .


----------



## MoonRiver (Sep 2, 2007)

Just watched a report that sounds bad. Not the death rate so much, but it seems to be infecting something like 3-6 people for every one infected. It has to be under 1 to control it. The rate is so high because the incubation period can be quite long and people are infectious before they have any symptoms. Just look at the cruise ships to see how contagious this virus is.

He seemed pretty sure it would spread widely in US. China is having people go back to work, which they need to do for their economy, but it will further spread the disease. The thought is this will likely happen in many countries as they try to keep their economies going while fighting the virus. Supply chains are already struggling especially in auto parts for new cars.

I have to admit I don't understand what is going on. The stock market rallies for several days and then over-reacts to new virus numbers. Some are predicting a 10-20% drop in the stock market as supply chain problems get worse and the flu spreads to more countries and more people. Early on in the virus scare, I shorted the market and got killed. Finally gave up and took off the short and, of course, the market went down for the next few days. I'm tempted to just sell everything until it shakes out.

How long would one have to hole up to wait it out? Three months? Four months? Hopefully warm weather will stop it for this season, but will it be back next season? Will they have a safe vaccine that is at least 80% effective? Will it mutate and become another novel virus next year?

It's not that I am being paranoid, but I have plans and the virus is screwing things up.


----------



## gleepish (Mar 10, 2003)

MoonRiver said:


> It's not that I am being paranoid, but I have plans and the virus is screwing things up.


We're kind of in the same boat on that. My sister is set to fly to Vegas at the end of this month and is extremely nervous about it. We've got a road trip vacation planed in early spring, but are hoping it's all done and over with by then....

We haven't really changed a whole lot of our daily routines... We keep up on what is being said and where the cases are. It didn't stop me from going to the hospital every day for the last week--made sure I kept my own hand sanatizer in my pocket and use it frequently though! DH is still going to work everyday (at the airport no less)... but if something changes and we have to make some changes, we are ready for that too.

There's really not a whole lot else that can be done at this time. Just pay attention and be prepared.


----------



## Alice In TX/MO (May 10, 2002)

Saw a person with a surgical mask in today at the grocery store.


----------



## MoonRiver (Sep 2, 2007)

Just saw a local article about a woman who just returned from China who is in self imposed 14 day quarantine. According to the article, she flew in to Raleigh airport and is now in VA. Local VA Dept of Health knows nothing about it.

Seems to be a hole in federal quarantine! And that's how it will likely spread across US.


----------



## light rain (Jan 14, 2013)

Alice In TX/MO said:


> Saw a person with a surgical mask in today at the grocery store.


It could be a response to the c virus, a person on chemo or waiting for a transplant...


----------



## light rain (Jan 14, 2013)

MoonRiver said:


> Just saw a local article about a woman who just returned from China who is in self imposed 14 day quarantine. According to the article, she flew in to Raleigh airport and is now in VA. Local VA Dept of Health knows nothing about it.
> 
> Seems to be a hole in federal quarantine! And that's how it will likely spread across US.


At least she sounds responsible. I wonder what I would do in her situation or what I would have suggested a family member or friend do...


----------



## robin416 (Dec 29, 2019)

light rain said:


> It could be a response to the c virus, a person on chemo or waiting for a transplant...


I frequently see people in masks here and it's for the possibilities you stated. We have a rather robust cancer treatment group here so they have patients with compromised immune systems. With the flu still circulating it's a serious threat to them.


----------



## gleepish (Mar 10, 2003)

"...The vast majority of confirmed and/or clinically diagnosed cases are in China, but diagnoses in the U.S. are expected to increase over the coming days and weeks, according to the CDC...." 

"....“We can and should be prepared for this new virus to gain a foothold in the U.S.,” Nancy Messonnier, director of the National Center for Immunization and Respiratory Diseases at the CDC, told reporters at a Wednesday press briefing. “The goal of the measures we have taken to date are to slow the introduction and impact of this disease in the United States, but at some point we are likely to see community spread in the U.S"....."

https://time.com/5783771/covid-19-us-cases/

regardless of what you are going to do or what you are doing... it is already here.


----------



## Hiro (Feb 14, 2016)

Anyone with 4 or 5 minutes to spare should read this just out by the National Natural Science Foundation of China.

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/339070128_The_possible_origins_of_2019-nCoV_coronavirus


----------



## Alice In TX/MO (May 10, 2002)

I am familiar with transplant patients wearing masks. No other indicators that point to that.


----------



## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

Alice In TX/MO said:


> Saw a person with a surgical mask in today at the grocery store.


Here's one for blondes:


----------



## birdman1 (Oct 3, 2011)

sadly its spreading like wildfire in china ,even the white washed news media is starting to show how bad it really is over there ,


----------



## Alice In TX/MO (May 10, 2002)

Yeah. I have come over to the Dark Side on this one. I won’t panic, but I am going to check my preparations.


----------



## Hitch (Oct 19, 2016)

Aside from the obvious concerns of contracting the Coronavirus it would impact our business significantly. We'd be faced with tough decisions like continuing to pay employees while we're closed. We have some corporate reserves that would carry us for a couple of months but anything more than that could be devastating.


----------



## Alice In TX/MO (May 10, 2002)

I talked with my son today about property values. Austin and the Travis County area has been overwhelmed with folks moving here. Rent prices are up to the point young people can’t afford to get an apartment by themselves. Land prices are through the roof. 

If we have an economic disruption, trends may shift, pause, or totally fail.


----------



## light rain (Jan 14, 2013)

Alice In TX/MO said:


> Yeah. I have come over to the Dark Side on this one. I won’t panic, but I am going to check my preparations.


...'bout time...


----------



## MoonRiver (Sep 2, 2007)

Hitch said:


> Aside from the obvious concerns of contracting the Coronavirus it would impact our business significantly. We'd be faced with tough decisions like continuing to pay employees while we're closed. We have some corporate reserves that would carry us for a couple of months but anything more than that could be devastating.


I was thinking along those lines about my stock portfolio. What stocks will do good and which won't.

Maybe you can rethink your business. Is there a way to continue without employees? Could you help employees minimize their families exposure to the virus? Could employees work from home?


----------



## MoonRiver (Sep 2, 2007)

Alice In TX/MO said:


> Yeah. I have come over to the Dark Side on this one. I won’t panic, but I am going to check my preparations.


If nothing else, it is an interesting mind game to play. How Can You Beat CoronaVirus - 2020 edition.


----------



## Hitch (Oct 19, 2016)

Our CEO and I were discussing this yesterday. We'd both forgo our compensation, which will give us plenty of cash for a while. Our employees could conduct business from home on a limited basis but it could allow us to stay afloat. 

It's only a matter of time before an exposed Coronavirus recipient goes to an ATM and its game on.


----------



## robin416 (Dec 29, 2019)

So, I thought when I saw the header "how long does Covid virus live on surfaces" they had the answer. They did, from 5 minutes to 7 days. So, they don't know yet.


----------



## Alice In TX/MO (May 10, 2002)

It depends on humidity, the surface, the temperature, etc.


----------



## MoonRiver (Sep 2, 2007)

I was looking for information on n95 masks and found this article. It explains the different types of masks and how effective each is.

https://www.primalsurvivor.net/n95-masks/

What I was looking for was a DIY n95 mask and think I found one that would work. I don't know how effective it is, but it would be better than no mask. The video claims it achieved 90% of the filtering of a surgical mask. Since I have a beard, this would probably be better for me than just an N95 mask.


----------



## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

robin416 said:


> They did, from 5 minutes to 7 days. So, they don't know yet.


There are lots of variables so there's no set answer.
Using a spread isn't saying they "don't know".


----------



## Darren (May 10, 2002)

From a friend of a friend, satellite photos show the Chinese are burning piles of bodies. Crematoriums are running 24/7 and can't keep up.

Do not believe the official Chinese numbers. China's economy is experiencing a major set back. Truck traffic is a fraction of normal.

That has implications for stocked shelves in the US.

Ninety percent of the masks like the N95 commonly used come from China. Only ten percent are made here.

If it spreads here and you have to go out, you have to cover your eyes too.


----------



## robin416 (Dec 29, 2019)

I call this some sort of irony: https://www.scmp.com/week-asia/heal...virus-super-spreader-south-korean-church-cult

Essentially it's a doomsday church where half of the members were infected by one "super spreader" member.


----------



## gleepish (Mar 10, 2003)

robin416 said:


> I call this some sort of irony: https://www.scmp.com/week-asia/heal...virus-super-spreader-south-korean-church-cult
> 
> Essentially it's a doomsday church where half of the members were infected by one "super spreader" member.


I saw reference to the jump in cases in South Korea, and saw that they thought they had a 'super spreader' but I hadn't heard the rest of the story... and there is a bit of irony there.


----------



## dmm1976 (Oct 29, 2013)

Ive already started putting together water and canned foods. Especially tuna, chicken and other potted meats. Got several bags of dry beans and rice. First aid kit. Shouldv've had this done already but at least i have it now. I dont worry so much about isolating. We do that to an extent already. But what i truly worey abouy is those who havent prepared and want to take ours. We dont have a gun currently. But its oj tje list once we take safety courses.


----------



## keenataz (Feb 17, 2009)

Darren said:


> From a friend of a friend, satellite photos show the Chinese are burning piles of bodies. Crematoriums are running 24/7 and can't keep up.
> 
> Do not believe the official Chinese numbers. China's economy is experiencing a major set back. Truck traffic is a fraction of normal.
> 
> ...



Sorry but can't believe info from a friend of a friend.

I can believe the ecenomic activity though.

Now after saying I don't believe a friend of a friend. Things do seem a little strange. It seems like a big overreaction for a disease that really is not that bad supposedly.


----------



## dmm1976 (Oct 29, 2013)

I immediately thought this virus was a way for china to seal itself off without seeming shady. What are they trying to hide? The virus might be a red herring.


----------



## Darren (May 10, 2002)

keenataz said:


> Sorry but can't believe info from a friend of a friend.
> 
> I can believe the ecenomic activity though.
> 
> Now after saying I don't believe a friend of a friend. Things do seem a little strange. It seems like a big overreaction for a disease that really is not that bad supposedly.


I'm not going to qualify the info source other than that. 

It is the same person that confirmed the info on the Weiner hard drive which explained Comey's unusual press conference which Hillary blamed for her loss. 

There is info on the internet about the increase in emissions that indicate a large number of bodies are being burned. It's also noteworthy that North Korea did not hold its annual parade.


----------



## robin416 (Dec 29, 2019)

Darren said:


> I'm not going to qualify the info source other than that.
> 
> It is the same person that confirmed the info on the Weiner hard drive which explained Comey's unusual press conference which Hillary blamed for her loss.
> 
> There is info on the internet about the increase in emissions that indicate a large number of bodies are being burned. It's also noteworthy that North Korea did not hold its annual parade.


Hmm, I wonder how much longer NK can hide how big the outbreak is there.


----------



## Alice In TX/MO (May 10, 2002)

Various sources:
Dunno how valid.

https://www.ccn.com/coronavirus-death-smog-is-china-burning-thousands-of-infected-bodies/

https://www.cbronline.com/opinion/china-burning-people-conspiracy

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/ar...-burning-bodies-24-7-cope-extra-workload.html

https://imgur.com/gallery/3RNybX5


----------



## gleepish (Mar 10, 2003)

Darren said:


> There is info on the internet about the increase in emissions that indicate a large number of bodies are being burned. It's also noteworthy that North Korea did not hold its annual parade.


There is this information out there--at least there are images showing large amounts of sulphur dioxide (S02)

I found it funny that on a website that is 'debunking' the rumors says this: 

*"So what's the truth?*
_It is true that data on windy.com shows extremely high levels of SO2 in both cities.

But little or nothing allows us to establish a relationship with the alleged unbridled activity at the city's crematoria.

Sulfur dioxide is naturally emitted by volcanoes. According to the WHO, the main human source of SO2 emissions is the combustion of sulphur-containing fossils used for domestic heating, electricity generation and motor vehicles as well as the burning of waste and the decomposition of organic matter."_

Now, I'm not sure why an industrial city would show more output of sulpher dioxide now when people aren't driving and the factories are closed. I know there are several volcanos in China, but I don't know if there are any in Wuhan, so I don't have an opinion on that one. 

Having China's Ministry of Ecology and Environment say, _"After careful confirmation, we found that the SO2 rise published by windy.com was a 'serious distortion' and its statistics could not be trusted." _Doesn't exactly sway me in either direction. We all know that the government of China has never been completely transparent in much, if anything. 

It's hard for me to form an unbiased opinion. My judgement has been clouded by the past actions of the Chinese government when dealing with outbreaks. Are they burning millions of bodies... Lord, I hope not. But I do believe that they are not being completely truthful when it comes to the numbers of those who have died from the coronavirus--be that out of intentional deceit or out of their 'SOP' that doesn't list contributing factors to their cause of death. 

Sorry it took me so long to get all that out! Got kinda wordy there.... here's the link to the site I quoted above. https://www.euronews.com/2020/02/13...oesn-t-show-extent-of-corpse-burning-in-wuhan


----------



## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

If you believe what China says then you might need to let others do your thinking.


----------



## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

To make China instantly rich and modern, the Communist hierarchy — the same government that once caused the deaths of some 60 million innocents under Mao Zedong — ignored property rights. It crushed individual freedom. It embraced secrecy and bulldozed over any who stood in its way.

China, of course, does not wish to have either its products or citizens quarantined from other countries. But the Chinese government will not allow foreign scientists to enter its country to collaborate on containing the coronavirus and developing a vaccine.

But the world is learning that China does not just move mountains for new dams or bulldoze ancient neighborhoods that stand in the path of high-speed rail. It also hid the outbreak and the mysterious origins of the deadly coronavirus from its own people and the rest of the planet as well — a more dangerous replay of its earlier effort to mask the spread of the SARS virus. The result was that thousands of unknowing carriers spread the viral plague while the government covered up its epidemic proportions.

https://www.nationalreview.com/2020...al-revolution-orwellian-dictatorship/#slide-1


----------



## Hitch (Oct 19, 2016)

If anything the world has learned China needs to improve on their food safety regulations.


----------



## gleepish (Mar 10, 2003)

HDRider said:


> If you believe what China says then you might need to let others do your thinking.


Truth!


----------



## SLADE (Feb 20, 2004)

We have friends that live in a city 700 miles from wuhan and they are sealed off.


----------



## Alice In TX/MO (May 10, 2002)

Food safety regulations? China? 

When we lived in Indonesia, the food vendor carts parked along a canal in downtown Jakarta. The water was latrine and water supply for the carts.


----------



## keenataz (Feb 17, 2009)

HDRider said:


> If you believe what China says then you might need to let others do your thinking.


I in no way believe what China says, but also until I actually see/hear proof about the burning of thousands of bodies, I'll not believe that either.


----------



## Darren (May 10, 2002)

40 incinerators x 10,000 lb capacity per day = 400,000 lbs. Average Chinese male weight is 145 lbs. 400,000/145 = 2,700 bodies per day. They also have ten crematoriums operating 24/7. If anything the weight should be less given the virus. 

What do you think? True or false?







https://www.dailystar.co.uk/news/wo...p73qhWahzJ7kVXXQCU7CEJnhi3L_8fV0kAushX1ZBCPhY


----------



## robin416 (Dec 29, 2019)

You know they're producing a lot of medical waste with this virus so that could be the reason for the furnaces.


----------



## gleepish (Mar 10, 2003)

_


robin416 said:



You know they're producing a lot of medical waste with this virus so that could be the reason for the furnaces.

Click to expand...

_So I went looking for another source for the incinerators and found

http://www.shadolsonshow.com/2020/0...ivers-another-40-giant-incinerators-to-wuhan/
and in that article, down at the bottom it says, "On February 9th, 2020, Chinese ex-pat Guo Wengui told the world that the actual numbers are more than 1-million infected and more than 100,000 dead, in Hubei Province alone." _(The good thing about these numbers are they were less then what I came up with earlier for you!)
_
https://gnews.org/116362/ 
This one talks about why it's doubtful that they are for medical waste

http://www.xinhuanet.com/english/2020-02/17/c_138792501.htm
And this one is short and sweet and says that they are for medical waste. 

So, like everything else, and I need a macro so I can just push a button instead of typing it all out... All we can do is wait, and we'll find out the truth soon enough.


----------



## robin416 (Dec 29, 2019)

Did some looking around, those first two are mild conspiracy type sites. Are they wrong? Who knows but that makes them suspect. 

I am inclined to believe that they are using the incinerator for medical waste. The threat of all that waste contaminated with the virus is a very large threat to gaining control.


----------



## robin416 (Dec 29, 2019)

I know they were testing the patient in Seattle but were unconvinced the spreading of the virus could be happening through feces. This one says Chinese scientists are actually thinking it might be. Thinking about how so many in China live like it's a 3rd world country could add some validity to it being possible. 

https://bgr.com/2020/02/20/coronavirus-update-poop-spread-outbreak/


----------



## Alice In TX/MO (May 10, 2002)

Most of it is a third world country.


----------



## gleepish (Mar 10, 2003)

robin416 said:


> Did some looking around, those first two are mild conspiracy type sites. Are they wrong? Who knows but that makes them suspect.
> 
> I am inclined to believe that they are using the incinerator for medical waste. The threat of all that waste contaminated with the virus is a very large threat to gaining control.


I agree with you.... the fact that those were the only places I could find anything makes me suspect, but at the same time I can't help but wonder...


----------



## robin416 (Dec 29, 2019)

gleepish said:


> I agree with you.... the fact that those were the only places I could find anything makes me suspect, but at the same time I can't help but wonder...


Yeah. As long as China is being so non communicative about what is really going on there isn't much out there to answer all the questions raised.


----------



## MoonRiver (Sep 2, 2007)

It probably is a good idea to try and get several months worth of whatever drugs you need.

I have seen several reputable sources that say many of our drugs are manufactured in China. There likely will be supply chain problems and even the possibility China could stop shipping some drugs out of the country. Here are 2 very conservative articles. There are many more that are a "little" more reactive.

From LA Times


> “The pharmaceutical industry does not want you to know where its drugs are from,” said Rohit Deshpande, a marketing professor at Harvard Business School who has studied country-of-origin branding.
> 
> “The moment people find out that these products largely come from China and India, they want to know why they’re not cheaper,” he told me. “The industry’s motivation in hiding this is to maintain very high prices.” LA Times


Congressional Testimony of Dr Scott Gottlieb, former FDA Commissioner


> I want to focus my observations on the vulnerability of our supply chain for drugs and medical devices. Some shortages or near shortages may be inevitable in U.S. as a result of crisis in China. Our drug and medical device supply chain is pointedly and precariously dependent on production in China for our finished goods. In many cases it isn’t the finished drugs or medical devices that are being manufactured largely or exclusively in China. Nor is it the intermediate products like the active pharmaceutical ingredients (API). It is lower margin, low technology starting materials and components that – over time – have become sole sourced in China.
> 
> Securing alternative supply in the setting of a crisis takes time


----------



## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

Darren said:


> There is info on the internet


Well, that confirms it then.........


----------



## Darren (May 10, 2002)

robin416 said:


> Yeah. As long as China is being so non communicative about what is really going on there isn't much out there to answer all the questions raised.


 Search for 40 industrial incinerators and Wuhan. Looking up the number of crematoriums in the area isn't difficult either.


----------



## robin416 (Dec 29, 2019)

Darren said:


> Search for 40 industrial incinerators and Wuhan. Looking up the number of crematoriums in the area isn't difficult either.


Not saying they didn't order them. I am saying there is a need to dispose of the medical waste with speed. With all of the thousands they've had in the hospitals and clinics there will be tons of it. 

And that's assuming they are remaining in one area. More than likely they are being sent to other medical centers. You can't be hauling that waste across long distances for disposal.


----------



## MoonRiver (Sep 2, 2007)

robin416 said:


> Not saying they didn't order them. I am saying there is a need to dispose of the medical waste with speed. With all of the thousands they've had in the hospitals and clinics there will be tons of it.
> 
> And that's assuming they are remaining in one area. More than likely they are being sent to other medical centers. You can't be hauling that waste across long distances for disposal.


There will be a difference in the chemicals released from burning bodies compared to medical waste.


----------



## Alice In TX/MO (May 10, 2002)

Please elaborate. That is something that I don’t know about.


----------



## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

MoonRiver said:


> There will be a difference in the chemicals released from burning bodies compared to medical waste.


Not much.
The fires consume most of them


----------



## MoonRiver (Sep 2, 2007)

Alice In TX/MO said:


> Please elaborate. That is something that I don’t know about.


The theory is there would be more sulfur dioxide.

All the media ran with that story and it appears to be from one person who got it wrong. Someone tweeted that based on satellite data, the area around Wuhan had an extremely high level of sulfur dioxide, which he said indicated a large amount of human or animal flesh being incinerated.

Someone fact checked and discovered that the satellite images can't be used to determine the level of sulfur dioxide, and the person who made the original tweet agreed.

But if you search for sulfur dioxide Wuhan you will see all our reputable media posted stories based on this 1 tweet and never fact checked it. I don't believe they have even issued a retraction.


----------



## robin416 (Dec 29, 2019)

Checking for what the residue is both cremation of bodies and medical wastes gets no where near SO2. Chemicals released are either destroyed by the sun's rays or is so minute it's dispersed into the air. 

Thank you, MoonRiver, for the update and all the extra information. 

I've never even seen any mention of the subject and I'm reading news stories on a regular basis.


----------



## MoonRiver (Sep 2, 2007)

This is exactly what I thought was happening, as I have found it near impossible to find any N95 masks.


> *Peter Navarro:* Maria my job at the White House during this crisis is to review the supply chains we need to treat corona. There’s over 30 different elements just for that alone. And what I’ve learned so far and not surprisingly is that we’ve offshored far too much of our supply chain not just for corona but also for the essential medicines we need… In terms of the immediate issue face masks, the N95 face masks. *China put export restrictions on those masks and then nationalized an American factory that produces them there.* So we’re dealing with that in Trump time.


https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/20...-a-us-factory-that-produces-them-there-video/


----------



## Darren (May 10, 2002)

MoonRiver said:


> This is exactly what I thought was happening, as I have found it near impossible to find any N95 masks.
> https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/20...-a-us-factory-that-produces-them-there-video/


It's the same with drugs and antibiotics. We're dependent on foreign sources.

The key now to understand the potential is to watch the situation in Italy. They're not fudging on the numbers. https://www.cnn.com/2020/02/23/europe/italy-novel-coronavirus-spike-intl/index.html


----------



## Darren (May 10, 2002)

MoonRiver said:


> The theory is there would be more sulfur dioxide.
> 
> All the media ran with that story and it appears to be from one person who got it wrong. Someone tweeted that based on satellite data, the area around Wuhan had an extremely high level of sulfur dioxide, which he said indicated a large amount of human or animal flesh being incinerated.
> 
> ...





robin416 said:


> Checking for what the residue is both cremation of bodies and medical wastes gets no where near SO2. Chemicals released are either destroyed by the sun's rays or is so minute it's dispersed into the air.
> 
> Thank you, MoonRiver, for the update and all the extra information.
> 
> I've never even seen any mention of the subject and I'm reading news stories on a regular basis.


SO2 is one of the gases released from cremation. From the National Institute of Health:

"The process of corpse cremation generates numerous harmful air pollutants, including particulate matter (PM), sulfur dioxide (SO2), nitrogen oxides (NOx), volatile organic compounds (VOCs), and heavy metals. 

These pollutants could have severe effects on the surrounding environment and human health. Currently, the awareness of the emission levels of harmful air pollutants from cremators and their emission characteristics is insufficient. In this study, we obtained the emission characteristics of flue gas from cremators in Beijing and determined the localized emission factors and emission levels of harmful air pollutants based on actual monitoring data from nine typical cremators." https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5931459/


----------



## robin416 (Dec 29, 2019)

"The installation of a flue gas post-treatment system could effectively reduce gaseous pollutants and the emission levels of PM. After being equipped with a flue gas post-treatment system equipped with a flue gas post-treatment system, the emission concentrations of PM10, PM2.5, CO, SO2 and VOCs from the cremators are reduced by 97.6, 99.2, 19.6, 85.2 and 70.7%, respectively. Moreover, the emission factors of TSP, PM10, PM2.5, CO, SO2 and VOCs are also reduced to 12.5, 9.3, 3.0, 164.1, 8.8 and 19.8 g/body. " also from the article by NIH. 

Considering that paper was published three years ago chances are very high these new cremators have the flu system to meet China's clean air requirements.


----------



## Alice In TX/MO (May 10, 2002)

China's clean air requirements. Joke, right?


----------

