# Is Gum Surgery Necessary?



## SageLady (Jun 10, 2008)

Has anyone here had gum surgery? My dentist sent me to a periodontist because I was having some problems with my gums. She says I need gum surgery or I will lose my teeth. Funny thing is I was told the same thing over 20 years ago and my teeth are still rock solid. So I'm not sure it's even necessary. And another thing is I can't afford it!! I have a few deep pockets, but have been adhering to a 4x a year cleaning and thought I was doing better.

I've had a few people tell me gum surgery is just a scam, another way to make big money. What do you think? Any advice would be much appreciated. Thanks!


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## Traci Ann (Jun 27, 2005)

Brush with cayenne sprinkled on your toothpaste. Our dentist was amazed at what it did.


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## KCM (Sep 26, 2005)

Traci Ann said:


> Brush with cayenne sprinkled on your toothpaste. Our dentist was amazed at what it did.


What did it do?


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## peahigirl (Nov 25, 2004)

KCM said:


> What did it do?


I'm curious too. In what way did it help?


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## vicki in NW OH (May 10, 2002)

Yes, I had periodontal surgery. After the surgery, my gums were still bleeding 'cause the real problem was that I had undiagnosed celiac disease.


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## blufford (Nov 23, 2004)

I bet your 4 time a year cleaning is what is saving your teeth assuming that they clean as far below the gum as possible. My gums improved dramatically over 6 months because I started chewing several pieces of bublegum 3 or 4 hours a day several times a week. I guess it massages the gums and makes them healthier.


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## PonderosaQ (Jan 12, 2004)

I had gum surgery and despite the cost and discomfort I think it was worth it. Before the surgery my teeth were becoming very painful, I couldn't eat hot or cold etc. The gums will never reattach themselves to the teeth without surgery or at the very least root planning and scaling. It has also been well documented that bacteria live in those pockets, bacteria that can get into your blood stream and cause cardio vascular problems and major heart problems.By the time your gums have receded so far that your teeth are no longer rock solid it's too late to do much.You can always have them do one quadrant at a time whether it's surgery or planning and scaling to spread out the cost.

PQ


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## ZMTmom (Jan 30, 2008)

I'd at least talk to the periodontist. If you've had cleanings quarterly(and good for you for investing in your health and following the recommended schedule!!) they are measuring the depths of your gum tissue. It's like a traffic light....1-3 mm is green(go ahead), 3.5-4.5 is yellow(proceed with caution, come in more frequently, additional attention to those areas), 5mm and above is a red light(stop and fix it). There are "therapies" that can be done...deep scaling and root planing(with anesthesia!!!) and placing a time-released tetracycline in those pockets. 
Unfortunately, periodontal disease is a "silent" thing...like blood pressure. By the time your teeth no longer feel "rock solid"...it's too late. I'd bet your hygienist has been measuring those pockets at each visit, and is noticing that some have slipped from 5 to 6 or 7, or she has treated and re-treated those areas without results. There may also be changes in the bone on the xray that you would not "feel" until it was too late. 
Basically...picture your gums as a baby bottle....if you have a 3 oz bottle and a 3 oz bottle brush, you can clean it effectively. BUT...if you now have a 4, 5 , 6 oz bottle....you can't clean the bottom ounces with that same 3 oz bottle brush. Bacteria is trapping down in those 'extra' millimeters and causing the condition to worsen....even though your RDH is doing her part and you are doing your part. 
Get a consult with the periodontist, be active in the process....ask to see your periodontal numbers, your bone level on the films, etc. It may be that there are only a few teeth that need the treatment, not your whole mouth. If you have insurance...see if you can maximize your benefits by having some done in 2008, and more done in January 2009 to get "2 years worth". 
No, it's not a scam...but it ALSO isn't the same procedure as when I first started working(Carter was president, if that tells you anything!!). Gone are the days of stitches, discomfort and "perio pack" oral bandaids all over your mouth....so don't base your decision on what someone says who had it done years ago. There are now lasers, etc that make it much more manageable. 
Please feel free to pm me with any questions or to share your info with me. I'm happy to be of service.


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## SageLady (Jun 10, 2008)

ZMTMom, the surgery does involve stitches, discomfort and perio pack oral bandaids. I guess I need to go to someone that is using laser treatments. How would I go about finding someone that does it that way, rather than the old fashioned way?


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## SteveD(TX) (May 14, 2002)

Get a second opinion, and a third if necessary.

I had a dentist tell me the same thing 20+ years ago. He also found cavities that other dentists couldn't find.

All dentists are NOT completely honest and trustworthy. Some are "more aggressive" when treating potential problems as well. I speak from experience.


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## heelpin (Nov 18, 2003)

Traci Ann said:


> Brush with cayenne sprinkled on your toothpaste. Our dentist was amazed at what it did.


Good advice! Better still is to make a Cayenne paste and force it down around the gums, this brings blood to the area for healing.
Take vitamin C, Calcium and CoQ10 for for a cure.


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## bjba (Feb 18, 2003)

Periodontal disease should be taken quite seriously. I've had several relatives and friends who have lost their teeth and in some cases needed bone grafts
due to periodontal disease.


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## ZMTmom (Jan 30, 2008)

SageLady said:


> ZMTMom, the surgery does involve stitches, discomfort and perio pack oral bandaids. I guess I need to go to someone that is using laser treatments. How would I go about finding someone that does it that way, rather than the old fashioned way?


 As WIHH said...the more modern treatments are more $$$. Even if you go with the current treatment plan, it will be MUCH MUCH easier than it would have been 10 years ago. I wasn't clear in what I meant to say...I do apologize. 
Education is going to be your biggest ally...make sure there are no surprises, that you know what to expect post-operatively, and which teeth are involved and WHY.


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## Becca65 (Jul 13, 2005)

How do you avoid gum disease anyways? I would hate to get that. Does it run in the family? Or are some more prone to it?
I would get a second opinion if that would make you feel better! I remember taking my daughter she was then 10 maybe to a dentist that my friend went too, the dentist tried telling me she had 10 cavities, and do you want to go ahead and schedule an appointment to get that started? umm no i went and got a second opinion, and this dentist said no way she only has 1 cavity.. I wasn't happy with that last dentist and we're very happy with this one, he's a great guy! 
Well good luck in whatever you decide!!


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## ZMTmom (Jan 30, 2008)

Becca65 said:


> How do you avoid gum disease anyways? I would hate to get that. Does it run in the family? Or are some more prone to it?


Yes, it has a genetic component(that's a relatively "new" discovery), and some people are more prone to it. There are many things that can put you at more risk...occlusion(the way your teeth meet when you bite), bruxism(severe tooth grinding), hormonal changes(you don't want to see what I saw when I had a patient who had been taking fertility drugs for 6 months THEN got pregnant with quadruplets  ), medications, illnesses, aging(decreased saliva, losing dexterity).
However...that does NOT mean you will definitely get it...just like any other disease that has "risk factors". Prevention and regular professional care is the key. Brushing with a SOFT toothbrush only(even better, get a Sonicare or an Oral B Professional) with proper technique, flossing PROPERLY every single day, and using any adjuncts that you may need for your specific situation. You want to get a cleaning every 6 mos(or more if your hygienist recommends), and *ask* what your periodontal numbers are. Knowledge is power. 
Plaque bacteria(there are 3 kinds) get together every 24 hours, have a party, poop and die. Next day...more come out. So...you have to get that junk outta there every 24 hours...not when you feel like it, or when there is food stuck in your teeth. Flossing will make a huge difference.


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## rwinsouthla (Oct 24, 2005)

This is my most embarrassing trait. I'm 38 YO and have MAJOR periodontal disease. I first went to the dentist at age 16 when I got hit in the face with a softball while pitching. My mom and dad just couldn't afford doctors, dentists, or anything. When I turned 26, I got out of school and landed a great job with benefits. First thing I did was go to the dentist. He warned me that I had terrible periodontal disease and I ignored him. Just wanted to get the cleanings like I was "supposed to". He stopped seeing me after 2 visits because I ignored the referral. Well, I thought he just wanted my money. A year after that, I woke up with what felt like a grapefruit on the side of my neck. Tooth impacted-gotta come out. Bottle left chew tooth (molar or whatever it is called). Woke me up. Immediately went and got a second opinion. The second "Holy Carp! Hey ya'll come see how deep THIS pocket is!!!" got me to have the surgery. I had gingival flap surgery where they peel your gum back and scrape the gunk away. Let me tell you - it smelled like a compost pile!!! The only thing good about it was the gas during the procedure. That was 10 years ago. Now, I am on 4X yearly cleanings, 2X daily flossings, 3X daily (and then some) Listerine rinses and my teeth feel great. Some deep pockets which never "heal" themselves, but the thing is, I have the periodontal disease slowed WAY down, if not stopped. 

To answer your question - Do you have the surgery? I guess it would depend on how deep your pockets are, as well as the length of the tooth and amount of bone loss, which are all pretty much related. If I had to do it over again, I would. Don't want to, but would. But you need to RELIGIOUSLY change the way you care for your teeth afterwards or you revert. It was seriously a lifestyle change and takes probably a half hour extra a day. I just didn't want to be 30-something and have dentures! 

Hope that helps. Good luck!

Ray


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## Becca65 (Jul 13, 2005)

ZMTmom said:


> Yes, it has a genetic component(that's a relatively "new" discovery), and some people are more prone to it. There are many things that can put you at more risk...occlusion(the way your teeth meet when you bite), bruxism(severe tooth grinding), hormonal changes(you don't want to see what I saw when I had a patient who had been taking fertility drugs for 6 months THEN got pregnant with quadruplets  ), medications, illnesses, aging(decreased saliva, losing dexterity).
> However...that does NOT mean you will definitely get it...just like any other disease that has "risk factors". Prevention and regular professional care is the key. Brushing with a SOFT toothbrush only(even better, get a Sonicare or an Oral B Professional) with proper technique, flossing PROPERLY every single day, and using any adjuncts that you may need for your specific situation. You want to get a cleaning every 6 mos(or more if your hygienist recommends), and *ask* what your periodontal numbers are. Knowledge is power.
> Plaque bacteria(there are 3 kinds) get together every 24 hours, have a party, poop and die. Next day...more come out. So...you have to get that junk outta there every 24 hours...not when you feel like it, or when there is food stuck in your teeth. Flossing will make a huge difference.


Thanks, I do go every 6 months for cleanings, and i get work done when it's needed, and i floss 2 times a day, and brush i will look into the sonic toothbrush though.
Both my parents had dentures but i think it was because they just didn't take care of there teeth, they brushed but i never seen them floss, or go to the dentist for cleanings when we were kids.


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## SageLady (Jun 10, 2008)

Thanks to all of you for your information and advice. ZMTmom, I may be pming you in the future to ask more questions. Thanks for being so informative, it was very helpful.

Again, thanks very much!!


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## Selena (Jun 25, 2005)

My dentist has the "cutting" edge tools -- the "pen" the hygenist moves around your mouth, showing all the detail on the "TV" (computer screen). The probe thingy that finds decay is pretty slick -- it gives a reading and as long as it is within the range, I am deemed cavity free. The digital x-rays are kinda slick too but if anyone knows of a unique procedure code for digital, PM me. My insurance pays based on film unless they get a new code.


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## ZMTmom (Jan 30, 2008)

Selena said:


> My dentist has the "cutting" edge tools -- the "pen" the hygenist moves around your mouth, showing all the detail on the "TV" (computer screen). The probe thingy that finds decay is pretty slick -- it gives a reading and as long as it is within the range, I am deemed cavity free. The digital x-rays are kinda slick too but if anyone knows of a unique procedure code for digital, PM me. My insurance pays based on film unless they get a new code.


That's strange! Our codes didn't change when we switched from paper film to digital..it's still 4 bitewings, full mouth xrays, etc. WIHH may have more knowledge about that...but it should be put thru the same way the old films were.


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## Becca65 (Jul 13, 2005)

What i wonder too, is it good to brush your tongue? I brush mine every night before bed.


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## ZMTmom (Jan 30, 2008)

Becca65 said:


> What i wonder too, is it good to brush your tongue? I brush mine every night before bed.


Definitely...plus they sell 'tongue scrapers' separately if you want. That's the one part of the routine I don't do...makes me gag :help:


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## doohap (Feb 23, 2003)

Becca65 said:


> How do you avoid gum disease anyways? I would hate to get that. Does it run in the family? Or are some more prone to it?
> I would get a second opinion if that would make you feel better! I remember taking my daughter she was then 10 maybe to a dentist that my friend went too, the dentist tried telling me she had 10 cavities, and do you want to go ahead and schedule an appointment to get that started? umm no i went and got a second opinion, and this dentist said no way she only has 1 cavity.. I wasn't happy with that last dentist and we're very happy with this one, he's a great guy!
> Well good luck in whatever you decide!!


How can you avoid gum disease? 

1. Floss daily. 

2. Get a good battery-powered toothbrush and USE it for at least one minute after every meal. 

3. If you can't brush after a meal get some "Doctor's Bush Picks" (available at most drug stores) and use them faithfully. I usually chew a piece of gum (like Glee Gum http://www.gleegum.com/) after using the brush picks. Amazing how much cleaner my mouth stays. 

4. Also, get a good water pick ... amazing what one can get from between their teeth even after flossing. 

5. And finally ... visit a dentist at least once a year for a good cleaning and check-up.

I had periodontal disease and the surgery did wonders for me. Now I'm diligent about my gum and tooth care.

Peace,
doohap


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## Becca65 (Jul 13, 2005)

Doohop i'am too, i wasn't for a long time there, but i faithfully go in for cleanings twice a year and get the work done that i need. 
One thing that bothers me is when someone smiles and you can see the plaque buildup on the front of their teeth..


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## Selena (Jun 25, 2005)

Wind in Her Hair said:


> an xray is an xray is an xray and the ADA codes are the same for digital as for regular radiographic film.
> 
> However, the "intraoral" images with the intraoral camera (the one you can see on the TV monitor) are different and are not usually benefitted for. Diagnostic photos are another thing altogether.


When I called my dental carrier to discuss the U&C for film vs. digital, I was told the digital X-rays have a different procedure code. However I am beginning to think while there, it is not common knowledge. The "intraoral" technology cost is bundled into their exam charge (which of course is over U&C). I don't quibble for a few bucks out of pocket but when the crown was $200 more than U&C, I negotiated a lower price.


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## Willowdale (Mar 19, 2007)

At one time I had early gum disease, and it completely went away when I bought a Sonicare toothbrush a few years ago. What an amazing difference! I have read all electric toothbrushes are good, but this thing is really amazing. I can feel it blasting gunk apart, between my teeth and everywhere (sorry, gunk is a gross way to state that...). It was the best $50 I ever spent on my health. Oh, and my teeth tend to stain from coffee, and this toothbrush whitened them right up.

They use sound waves to smash kidney stones (lithotripsy?) and I imagine the sonic vibrations from the toothbrush do the same with plaque. More dentally educated people in this thread, feel free to correct me


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## ZMTmom (Jan 30, 2008)

Willowdale said:


> At one time I had early gum disease, and it completely went away when I bought a Sonicare toothbrush a few years ago. What an amazing difference! I have read all electric toothbrushes are good, but this thing is really amazing. I can feel it blasting gunk apart, between my teeth and everywhere (sorry, gunk is a gross way to state that...). It was the best $50 I ever spent on my health. Oh, and my teeth tend to stain from coffee, and this toothbrush whitened them right up.
> 
> They use sound waves to smash kidney stones (lithotripsy?) and I imagine the sonic vibrations from the toothbrush do the same with plaque. More dentally educated people in this thread, feel free to correct me


 While both the Oral B electric and the Sonicare are great....if you have periodontal disease, go for the Sonicare. They really are amazing. Very good Willowdale...the sonic waves "burst" the cell walls of the bacteria:rock:, while the action of the bristles(not just side to side, but front to back) remove the plaque.


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## Jenn (Nov 9, 2004)

Two dental visits (starting two years ago) they told me I need perio surgery. Doing swish with peroxide (dilute 1:1 with water and DON'T SWALLOW) prior to my next few appts since I figured I'd have less problems with the surgeries planned they exclaimed over how well my gums were (without perio surgery). Dental visit today they were very happy and no dire need for perio- though should floss more and use peroxide more and brush gums more since they bled a bit with cleaning, but no significant recession. My trick: started peroxide last week.

Confession: I have horrible teeth and lots of crowns and fillings, brush daily before work and usually daily on weekends, floss every 1-3 weeks usually after eating something that sticks between the teeth, and have pain off and on maybe related more to my sinuses than my teeth.

So I recommend peroxide to those with periodontal disease but can't be certain how my teeth and my dentist's recommendations (in the past) that I needed surgery compare to you and your gums. Use my confession to try to guess.


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## Amber245 (Sep 23, 2016)

SageLady said:


> Has anyone here had gum surgery? My dentist sent me to a periodontist because I was having some problems with my gums. She says I need gum surgery or I will lose my teeth. Funny thing is I was told the same thing over 20 years ago and my teeth are still rock solid. So I'm not sure it's even necessary. And another thing is I can't afford it!! I have a few deep pockets, but have been adhering to a 4x a year cleaning and thought I was doing better.
> 
> I've had a few people tell me gum surgery is just a scam, another way to make big money. What do you think? Any advice would be much appreciated. Thanks!


I had severe pain and I thought that it might be due to some sort of allergy. As I had bleeding gums, it made me visit our dentist in Mississauga where I was diagnosed with gum disease. I took the gum disease treatment ( http://www.parkerhilldental.com/our-services/gum-treatment/ ) where they used local anesthesia before it getting worse. I took the treatment and it was all safe. So it's very important to know the symptoms and get your teeth checked if you face any kind of dental problem.


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## suitcase_sally (Mar 20, 2006)

You drug up this ancient thread for _that???_


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## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

suitcase_sally said:


> You drug up this ancient thread for _that???_


What an absolutely snarky post to a brand new member... :awh:


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## CountryMom22 (Nov 27, 2014)

I'm glad to see a new member going through the old threads. Hope you are enjoying your walk down memory lane here.

Oh, and welcome!


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## pixiedoodle (Sep 24, 2014)

I have had 3 dental tooth implants & also had to have a gum implant 4 yrs after the double tooth implant. Despite all my efforts to keep them brushed, cleaned etc, my gumm shrank. Gum implant was quick but about $1500. Took about 15 mins. They placed a gum protector sealant over the area which eventially came off. I'd do it allllll again in a heart beat... I had 4 solid gold brindges placed when i was 16 yrs old. I still have one of the original left...i am nearing 71. I'd do it  all, all over again. I want to keep what few of my own teeth i have . I like to chew so not taking advantage of dental abilities today is not on the radar !


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## Terri (May 10, 2002)

How deep are your gum pockets? My dentist says a pocket of 5 or less can be controlled with a waterpik


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## Grandmotherbear (May 15, 2002)

My mother lost a mouthful of perfectly good teeth due to gum disease, and jawbone resorption around the tooth roots. She had two different sets of implants that never took. I have lost two molars in the last two months and there were huge, quick growing cysts at the roots, triggering the bone absorption. I have TMJ and probably inherited my mother's gum disease. Because of the inheritance factore, the dentist agreed with me about not doing implants.
Medications such as diuretics and soe tranquilizers and antihistamines have the side effect of reducing saliva production, which can lead to gum disease. Anyone taking that kind of med should be very careful of their oral hygiene.
Peroxide can be a wonder drug, properly used. Most dentists use a peroxide swish n spit, that's why so few have cardiac disease. 
Welcome aboard Amber245. Interesting to reread some of these older posts. A lot of us have been on the boards since the lte 90's, it's just that the board fix in 2002 dropped everyone's prior history and started fresh.


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## ldc (Oct 11, 2006)

I've been successful using a Sonic care toothbrush. Had a friend that brushed her teeth/gums with myrh (sp?)powder (very bitter) and avoided gum surgery.


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