# Raising a baby calf for freezer camp



## TSYORK (Mar 16, 2006)

I'm getting ready to raise a baby calf for the freezer. I do not have the luxury of space, flexibility, etc of having a nurse cow. This calf will have to be fed with milk replacer. I try to do everything, as much as possible, "organically." I will be using non-medicated milk replacer. I really don't even want to use the milk replacer, but like I said before I don't have the luxury of having a nurse cow. I could buy some organic milk from a friend who has jerseys, but at six bucks a gallon, I wouldn't be able to stand that long. I've been told to use one bag of replacer then wean them off onto calf grower, hay, etc. I'm not going to raise it to about 500-600 pounds, as I don't have the space or need for a thousand pounds of meat. 

Any and all advice is greatly appreciated. I am planning on mixing DE and fresh "homegrown" eggs in with every bottle. I'm scared about the scouring ordeal, because I don't want to have to give them any antibiotics; that's why i'm raising my own. If I wanted antibiotics, I'd just go to the store and buy my beef.

Thanks,


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## Shawna (Jul 10, 2007)

Hi all!

I am new here, and am curious as to how many people raise beef cattle?? We are just starting out and have 8 calves at the moment.

This post made me wonder....what do you do *organically* to treat scours?? Every calf we have gotten has ended up with scours, and we have ended up medicating them. So, if you are trying to raise organic beef, what do you do when they get sick? I am very curious about this!!!  We get our calves from local dairy farms at 3 days old....we *think* this is better than at auction. The farms are clean and cattle well taken care of. But the scours, Lordy, Lordy! 

I would love some insight into this subject! 

Thanks!
Shawna


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## Up North (Nov 29, 2005)

Prevention is the best treatment for calf scours. The Lion's share of scours are simply due to overfeeding calf early in it's life. Avoid overfeeding, and of course have top-notch sanitation of all calf feeding bottles, buckets, etc., and scours will be a rare thing.

TS York - When folks say 1 bag of milk replacer, that means 1- 50 pound bag. With the high price of MR. the manufacturer's have taken to selling it in 25 pound bags as well. These are ok, but you need to put 2- 25 pound bags of MR through a calf and have them eating grain well before weaning them.
Just a clarification.


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## francismilker (Jan 12, 2006)

Shawna, As UpNorth mentioned above, "prevention is the best treatment for scours". As for an organic treatment, I'd try keeping them hydrated with water and electrolytes before I applied any medication for scours. In my experience with scours, if you can keep the calf hydrated, they usually do fine. Another thing, sometimes people recognize anything looser than a cow pile to be scours in calves. Most of the time, calves will not have much solidity to their manure. Because they are on a mostly liquid based diet, it's going to be loose. 
It's not until they are raising their tail, humping up, and sending it halfway across the barn in projectile form that I get concerned. And once again, electrolytes and water usually do the trick.


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## Shawna (Jul 10, 2007)

Up North,

That's exactly what we have tried to do and still no success at preventing scours. We are diligent about keeping calves separated so they don't suck on each other, everything gets washed thoroughly (nipple bottles, etc), and we wash our hands, etc inbetween feeding each calf, just so something isn't on us and transfers to a healthy calf. We constantly clean the pens so that there is no waste in the pens, etc. I am not sure what else we could do :shrug: 

Francismilker

We have been using electrolyte treatment on them, but it wasn't doing the trick by itself. And they had the water, I mean WATER, shooting out where you didn't want to be standing behind them! LOL! 

We have one right now that is SO weak he can't stand, even with help. He's about 6 days old. He is still, however, peeing and pooping so we figure that's a good sign. Sorry for the TMI, but his poop is that funky yellow stuff...not water shooting out at least! He seems to be the weak responder to the electrolytes, etc. Any advice? How much should we be feeding, just out of everyone else's personal experience?

Thanks for the info everyone....I hope I didn't highjack this thread...I apologize if I did!

Thanks again!
Shawna


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## Ken Scharabok (May 11, 2002)

The best book I've seen on this subject is Raising a Calf for Beef by Phyllis Hobson. It is a Garden Way Book. Your local library may be able to get you a loaner copy.

On scours:
- Brown and runny is OK.
- Yellow and runny means too rich of a diet.
- White usually kills if not treated.

Some calves are going to die on you whatever you do.

In the past if the calf was still agressively hungry I've given them warm water with a bit of sugar in it.

I also put two raw eggs in each bottle. Additional protein but it is said to help firm up the stool a bit.


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## Gin64 (May 16, 2007)

Shawna the best thing at this point is to treat your really sick calves with a shot of Baytril. Which you will have to obtain from a vet. It goes just under the skin in the neck. And for the ones that are loose and not really watery give then pepto bismal. It is easier to fix a calf that is bound a little then to fix one that is scouring a lot.
The electrolyt solution I use here on the farm when we need one is:
2 tablespoons sugar
2teaspoons salt 
2 teaspoons baking soda
mix it with half a bottle of water and feed. I usually only feed for about 2 feeds with the water and then mix it in the milk for 2 feedings. But this is the last resort around here. Good luck with your calves.

Tsyork just make sure the milk replacer that you feed is a whole milk replacer and not a soy base. Have killed a number of calves on soy base milkreplacer in the past. And do not know the reason behind not using medicated replacer but it is really your best to use. And Upnorth is right you will have to feed a fifty pound bag of replacer. The sooner they get on to feed the better you are with growing them.
PS A 1000 pound cow will only butcher to about 400 pounds of meat if you are lucky.


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## Ken Scharabok (May 11, 2002)

"I'm not going to raise it to about 500-600 pounds, as I don't have the space or need for a thousand pounds of meat."

Be aware out of a 1,000 pound steer you will end up with a hanging carcass weight of about 600 pounds and a freezer-beef weight of about 435 pounds. Percentages vary by breed a bit. If my math is right if you want say 300 pounds of freezer beef you would multiply it by 2.3 so you would shoot for about a 700 pound carcass. You can buy weight tapes for cattle at some livestock retail outlets or on-line sellers.

An argument can be made for pasture finishing or supplemental feeding to try to increase the intermuscluar fat (marbling). Really somewhat depends on how you plan to cook it. Grass-finished beef usually needs to be slow cooked (e.g., roasts instead of grilled steaks).

Personally, were it me, I'd just go to a livestock auction and purchase the size steer I wanted. Very, very few cattlemen use growth hormones on calves. Likely they are just weaned off of their mom and, if medicated at all, likely just wormed and likely a multiple way vaccine for common cattle diseases.

If you intend to do your own slaughtering about half of the contents of Raising a Calf for Beef is on it. I also recommend Home Butchering and Meat Preservation by Geeta Dardick. Now out of print so check with your local library and on-line used book sellers.


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## Jcran (Jan 4, 2006)

I was in the same boat-two calves and planned on raising them just to graze down the grass then pop them into the freezer; THEN I looked at cost, etc of slaughter...as a result, these suckers are getting raised up to about 700 pounds each so the cost of slaughter and processing makes it worth my while. They are mid May calves and are down to one bottle of very watered down replacer a day each, just til the end of the bag of replacer...then grass and some 14% cow feed each day. They are also eating old cantaloupes and lettuce and other waste greens that the pig doesn't get to first and seem hale and hearty. I'm hoping to start them on stale bread as well, in moderation (getting lots of free produce and dated bread right now) to see if that will help amend the grass and grain. Then next year, I think I'm just going to buy pasture raised beef and see if the lady will give me a lower price in trade for having some of her animals do a "graze-through" on our grass for a month or so. The experience is a good one but I am realizing that I'm going to have to supplement with hay through the winter and that was not my original plan. Oh well, a learning curve and there'll be meat in the freezer at the end of it.


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## sammyd (Mar 11, 2007)

I have tried nonmedicated milk replacer and I never will again. For the short time they are on it and the length of time I keep them I don't worry about any sort of carryover.
I lost 2 of 4 on the non vs losing 0 of 4 on medicated. (your results may vary)

I try to buy calves in late Nov Dec time frame. Feed them through 50 lbs of milk replacer with good quality 2nd crop and an 18% starter (grain type not pelleted) and fresh water available free choice from about day 3. Usually I put water in there right away.
By the time the pasture is ready so are they and they graze pasture or are tethered around the property till Sep (with a 16% grower from weaning till about 400 lbs then I switch to a 14% dairy mix). Then off for a month and back on after a good freeze knocks off the plants for the year.
I feed them through the winter and they hit the pasture again till around June.
I try to butcher around 18 months and usually end up with 500-600 lbs of meat from a Holstein steer.

If you don't have space for a nurse cow what space do you have for a calf?
What are you going to feed it after it's weaned? 
I personally think that trying to go organic on your first ever calf is a mistake and bound to be a disappoinment. Raising calves can be tricky if you know what you're doing and aren't afraid to use the occaisional drug. But not having a clue about calves and not using modern drugs is setting yourself up for failure. I could be wrong though.


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## topside1 (Sep 23, 2005)

Sammyd is right, calf raising is tricky. I've never lost one yet, however I have extra time to spend babysitting them....Some would have been doomed if I wasn't committed to their care. Face it they are babies and a strong thunderstorm can create a stress related illness. One quick tip, try to feed three time a day, if possible, of course equaling the recommended amount of milk. Second tip, smaller amounts of milk with two eggs added. Third tip, keep the nipple opening small for at least two weeks and then X cut the opening bigger as the animal grows. Many more tips, but the bottom line is experience pays off when it comes to raising bottle babies......Always ask questions around town and on this forum. Someone said a long time ago "that a hungry calf is a healthy calf". That statement is absolutely true from birth to three weeks old....at three weeks old you can almost start relaxing....almost. Write anytime, I'd be glad to help...


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## Up North (Nov 29, 2005)

Shawna said:


> Up North,
> I am not sure what else we could do :shrug:
> 
> We have one right now that is SO weak he can't stand, even with help. He's about 6 days old. ... Any advice? How much should we be feeding, just out of everyone else's personal experience?
> ...


Some thoughts on the many questions poised. You say these are calves purchased from a dairy farm?...What Breed and what weights?
The appropriate volume is different for a 60 pound Jersey calf versus a 110 pound Holstien calf.
My suspicion is that these calves may not be receiving proper Colostrum. The Colostrum received from the mothers milk provides the natural antibodies a baby calf needs. Without the Colostrum, a calf basically has no immune system in place. Other than point blank asking the seller if the calves you are buying received Colostrum on a timely basis, you have no control over this if you are buying them at 3 days of age.
As to your calf that is too weak to stand, Has he been nursing from a bottle? If not, have you used an esophogeal Tube feeder to put the milk or MR in it's stomach? From your description it sounds like the calf is dehydrated. I would follow Gin64's suggestions immediately if calf is still alive. If calf cannot stand on it's own, time is of the essence.
Another Technique to use on a dehydrated calf that is down, is to mix a saline solution of 1/4 teaspoon Morton's white salt with 1 Quart of lukewarm water. Do not use SeaSalt, as the large crystals will not dissolve enough to flow through the IV Line.. Then, administer an IV at the front of shoulder just under the skin. A quart of Saline Solution will form a bubble of fluid under the skin qhich will be unsightly and may take a while to absorb and disappear, but this technique *may* save a dehydrated calf. Repeat IV of Saline Solution on opposite front shoulder of calf so you complete proceeding with a 1 quart bubble under skin of neck on each side of animal.
If you are not practised in administering IV, this may require help of someone who is.
You have received lots of good info from some knowledgeable folks.
Raising calves can be an expensive education....Good Luck.


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## Up North (Nov 29, 2005)

Topside1- May I ask what breed the calf is in bottom photo, lower RHCorner of 3 calf Pic?
You do realize, TJ, that by putting it in print that you have never lost a calf you have hereby jinxed yourself? The old Hubris and Nemesis Deal, LOL.


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## Shawna (Jul 10, 2007)

The newer calves we purchased (the sick ones) are Jersey. We also have a holstein farm we got two other calves from (but they are older and fine). Both farms do make sure the calves have colostrum. The gentleman we got the Jerseys from even hung onto the two older calves for over a week as he was having trouble with the calves getting sick. He had just sold 6 calves to someone else and that person lost all of them! However, dh and I both think he doesn't treat the scours when they come about....I suppose his philosophy is that he's not going to drop $$ into calves that are of no use to him. It would probably be better for us (and the calves) if he DIDN'T hold onto them...we could get them treated ASAP if they are scouring. The three youngest calves are probably 55 pounds (the ones that are scouring).

We have only had trouble twice with the weak calf feeding. Three days ago and yesterday morning. Three days ago he wouldn't even take any of his morning feeding, dh had to force it. And yesterday he drank hlaf the bottle and then I had to force the rest, but he DID feed. Dh did get ahold of a shot of Baytril last night and administered it. The calf ate fine this morning, but is still terribly weak and I have to pick him up to get him to stand....then he looks like a wobbly, just born calf! But at least he is up and moving some. The calf has still been urinating and still pooping, both of which we are taking as a good sign (esp the urinating!).

*Raising calves can be an expensive education....Good Luck.* 

You know, it's funny you said this. I was returning hay wagons to my dad this weekend and he chided us for getting Jerseys for meat calves. I told him we are still *learning the ropes* and we would rather *learn* with 10.00 calves than with 130.00 calves (which is what we paid each for our holsteins). We of course don't want to lose ANY, but I'd certainly rather be out 10 bucks than 100+. 

Thank you all for your insight! This is why I love forums like this....it's full of people who've been there, done that and have the wisdom that goes along with it! I grew up on a farm and we had feeder calves....dh worked on a farm for years as a teenager and they had feeders....but neither one of us ever got into the thick of things like medications, etc. Sometimes I feel like we didn't know enough getting into this, but both of us are of the mindset that DOING is the best way of learning  

Thanks again everyone!
Have a great day!
Shawna


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## topside1 (Sep 23, 2005)

Up North, I can only assume that the calf in questions is Holstein. All my calves come from a local dairy. At one time years ago he used a Jersey Bull and Angus Bulls just for his smaller heifers. Why do you ask? He sure has a lot of brown in his color pattern. I tell my kids the other bottle calves sucked the black right out of him. Here's a photo when he was one month old. I'll send another picture of him in the sunlight today plus his age......Thanks,,,,TJ


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## topside1 (Sep 23, 2005)

He's the same bottle steer @ 2.5 months old.


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## Up North (Nov 29, 2005)

Shawna - For twice a day feeding, this is what we would do on our farm:
A 50-60 pound calf (Jersey, Ayrshire heifer, or a twin) would get 1.5 quarts of MR per feeding first 7 days, then increase to 2 quarts per feeding if calf is doing well and no signs of lethargy or scouring after 7-10 days.
A 90- 110 pound Holstien or similar size calf would get 2 quarts of MR per feeding first 7 days, then increase to 3 quarts of water mixed with MR powder amount for 2 quarts after 7-10 days, again assuming calf is doing well, drinking it all, and no scouring or lethargic behavior.
Large Particle Sweet Calf grain and water should be provided free choice in addition to the MR feedings.
Good Luck.
BTW, if the Jersey farm is having them scour, and then treating them and sending them to you, perhaps you could visit with him and offer to take them off his hands at day 2 or 3 immediately after they get colostrum and are dried off and walking. Might give you more control over their health status.
Just throwing out ideas, you have to do what gets the best results for you.


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## Up North (Nov 29, 2005)

topside1 said:


> He's the same bottle steer @ 2.5 months old.


That Brown&White calf looks much like our Holstien-Colored breed crosses. No matter, the steaks & grilled Hamburgers taste good regardless of the colorings on the steer. Cheers.


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## TSYORK (Mar 16, 2006)

Up North said:


> That Brown&White calf looks much like our Holstien-Colored breed crosses. No matter, the steaks & grilled Hamburgers taste good regardless of the colorings on the steer. Cheers.



How old was he when you butchered him?


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## topside1 (Sep 23, 2005)

TSYORK, here is my 2 cents. My Holsteins are butchered @ one year to 16 months. At one years the boys that I've raised weigh 900-1000 pounds depending on genetics and quality of food available. At 16 months expect the steer to weigh 1300-1400. Approx. 40-45% of the live weight will end up in someones freezer. These number are very accurate according to my wife, (the bookeeper)....


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