# Yogurt Making- Only 5 Generations?



## Jacktheknife (Feb 5, 2013)

Hi everyone. Im fairly new to yogurt making (did a couple batches using the crockpot method) and just got my first yogurt maker. The manual stated that while I can use yogurt as my culture, that I shouldnt continue reusing my own batches for the culture past 5 generations. Why is this?


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## Bret (Oct 3, 2003)

I think that you can reuse yogurt beyond 5 generations. It will start to change with new airborn bacterias and the flavor and results may change. Nature makes good stuff too.


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## Jacktheknife (Feb 5, 2013)

Bret said:


> I think that you can reuse yogurt beyond 5 generations. It will start to change with new airborn bacterias and the flavor and results may change. Nature makes good stuff too.


so, do you just keep using your own yogurts as your culture?


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## ohiogoatgirl (Aug 27, 2010)

Bret said:


> I think that you can reuse yogurt beyond 5 generations. It will start to change with new airborn bacterias and the flavor and results may change. Nature makes good stuff too.


wouldnt that be avoided by, lets say, i make 10 jars yogurt... i always leave one jar of yogurt alone and when i want to make more yogurt i open it and use it to make my new yogurts.

that would eliminate or at least really reduce the airborn bacterias. since you only open it and add it to the new batch, instead of making one batch and using the last of it to make a new batch. when you do that way the jar gets opened however many times and bacteria can hop in and alter it.

my first small "test" jar is incubating at the moment so this is all *very* interesting to me


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## Bret (Oct 3, 2003)

You can keep using your own until nature tells you to stop by off flavors, tastes etc. Keeping one jar each time to use as a starter should work and last for a long time. It will evolve.


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## Belfrybat (Feb 21, 2003)

After about 5-6 batches I find the yogurt doesn't set up as well, no matter if the jar is opened or not. When that happens, I buy a small container of plain yogurt on sale (usually 50 cents) and start over again. My yogurt maker makes a quart, and I pull off 1/4th cup and refrigerate it in a small covered jar, so air is minimized. But it will still only go to 5 generations before deterioriating.


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## Jacktheknife (Feb 5, 2013)

ohiogoatgirl said:


> wouldnt that be avoided by, lets say, i make 10 jars yogurt... i always leave one jar of yogurt alone and when i want to make more yogurt i open it and use it to make my new yogurts.
> 
> that would eliminate or at least really reduce the airborn bacterias. since you only open it and add it to the new batch, instead of making one batch and using the last of it to make a new batch. when you do that way the jar gets opened however many times and bacteria can hop in and alter it.
> 
> my first small "test" jar is incubating at the moment so this is all *very* interesting to me


I was thinking the same thing. Keep mother in the fridge and use her until gone, then any yogurt in the fridge is still only second gen, or daughter.Save one jar of daughter and use her for making all the batches until she is used up, then start on a jar of grand daughter and so on. You may get 30 plus batches before getting to fifth gen.


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## Melissa (Apr 15, 2002)

To keep from buying any for future starter, just freeze once cup portions from the first batch. After you make 5-6 batches and it starts to not set up as well or tastes a little off, thaw one of the frozen ones and use it to start a new batch.


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## Jacktheknife (Feb 5, 2013)

Melissa said:


> To keep from buying any for future starter, just freeze once cup portions from the first batch. After you make 5-6 batches and it starts to not set up as well or tastes a little off, thaw one of the frozen ones and use it to start a new batch.


That sound like a great plan. I am going to freeze my store-bought mother, which has only one spoonful taken from it.


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## ohiogoatgirl (Aug 27, 2010)

you can freeze it and it wont kill the mother? *gasp*! that does sound like the perfect idea!


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## Jacktheknife (Feb 5, 2013)

i heard that you can use the whey as your culture. Has anyone tried this? Can I freeze it and use it?


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## Melissa (Apr 15, 2002)

Yes, it works fine after being frozen. 

Not sure what you mean by whey? My yogurt sets up firm, but maybe you are meaning the liquid that comes from the yogurt if you strain it? I am not sure it would contain enough culture to work, but you could give it a try and let us know.


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## Jacktheknife (Feb 5, 2013)

Yep, that is exactly what I mean. I strain my yogurt to make it "Greek" and I use the whey in my homemade breads and in anything that calls for buttermilk.


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## DarleneJ (Jan 29, 2012)

Jacktheknife said:


> Hi everyone. Im fairly new to yogurt making (did a couple batches using the crockpot method) and just got my first yogurt maker. The manual stated that while I can use yogurt as my culture, that I shouldnt continue reusing my own batches for the culture past 5 generations. Why is this?


What do the people in the mountains of Turkey do? Certainly they don't go to the store and buy a cup of Dannon...

Why do we have to start over after 5 generations? Is it different using real animal milk instead of the pasteurized and dried stuff we use?


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## SueMc (Jan 10, 2010)

DarleneJ said:


> What do the people in the mountains of Turkey do? Certainly they don't go to the store and buy a cup of Dannon...
> 
> Why do we have to start over after 5 generations? Is it different using real animal milk instead of the pasteurized and dried stuff we use?


I think yogurt for culturing lasts longer than 5 generations although the taste may morph into something different as "stronger" bacteria overgrow the "weaker" species in the yogurt, or the possible, accidental inclusion of "wild" bacteria. That doesn't make it bad or not yogurt, just different.

Regarding Turkey and other similar areas. I wonder if the containers that yogurt is made in doesn't make a big difference. I would think that yogurt made in wooden or clay containers or even skin bags would keep the yogurt viable and interesting for years! 
I read an article by a baker once. He talked about using an old wooden dough bowl given to him. The old lady said her family's rye bread dough had been mixed up and left to rise, almost daily, in the bowl for years and years. The baker talked about all the good stuff living in the wood in the bowl that was likely imparted into each new batch of dough.
Maybe it's the same way with yogurt being made by people in remote areas of Turkey, Russia, etc, using something other than sanitized glass jars to culture it in.

Regarding the milk. I thought I made good yogurt with store milk and think I make good yogurt with my cow's milk. Since I heat my milk up to 185deg before cooling and culturing, there really shouldn't be much difference between the two milks other than freshness and what the cow was fed .

Yogurt in Turkey: http://www.turkishculture.org/culinary-arts/cuisine/yogurt-304.htm
Elsewhere: http://www.saudiaramcoworld.com/issue/200804/of.yogurt.and.yoruks.htm


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## Jacktheknife (Feb 5, 2013)

Just a follow up-- I froze what was left of my store bought "mother" in an ice cube tray and the transferred the yogurt cubes into a zip-top bag. In the mean time I used a "daughter" batch as my starter, thus making "granddaughters." I did this until I had a batch that tasted off, which I will call " grandson." I then took one of my "mother" cubes out of the freezer and bam! We are back in business. I think using this method it could be well over a year before I buy another 55 cent "mother."

Not to mention that when mother runs out, I plan on freezing a tray of "daughter."


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## ohiogoatgirl (Aug 27, 2010)

Jacktheknife said:


> Just a follow up-- I froze what was left of my store bought "mother" in an ice cube tray and the transferred the yogurt cubes into a zip-top bag. In the mean time I used a "daughter" batch as my starter, thus making "granddaughters." I did this until I had a batch that tasted off, which I will call " grandson." I then took one of my "mother" cubes out of the freezer and bam! We are back in business. I think using this method it could be well over a year before I buy another 55 cent "mother."
> 
> Not to mention that when mother runs out, I plan on freezing a tray of "daughter."


cool. so as long as prolonged freezing doesnt hurt it at all then with 5 generations you could go for like 5 years going like that.


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## Macybaby (Jun 16, 2006)

Freezing won't hurt. I purchased powdered culture and it needs to be stored in the freezer.

Too much heat will kill the culture though.

For remote places that have been making yogurt for ages, they basically are using native/natural cultures. And they may get some variety and off batches, but they just keep on with it. 

Like making starter for sourdough bread, you can get some very different tastes based on where you are. I think there are some areas where the local "in the air" cultures work well, and others where you end up with something not very nice.


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## FarmerSarah (May 24, 2013)

The strains used in commercial operations are not happy when taken out of their plastic cups and will not make good yogurt indefinitely. It seems this is because there are several strains of bacteria in store bought, all of which are developed separately and then used to inoculate the milk. So in theory when you're making your own, one strain will take over and it may not taste as great. I've started using a powdered culture I add and it works great! I'm not sure how many generations I can get out of a batch yet...
Also, I've read that there are heritage strains, I suppose you could call them. Where a family in Turkey, say, has used the same culture for many human generations and it never goes off. I have always been curious about finding one of these ancient strains. But then I'm not sure if they even really exist. The yogurt unicorn


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## alpacaspinner (Feb 5, 2012)

In my experience, and from what I have read over 3+ decades of yogurt making:

1 - Freezing the starter works very well, though I find that after about 6-8 months the little yogurt ice cubes don't accomplish the job quite so well. 
2 - Keeping some of the present batch in the fridge to use in the next batch really only works well if you make yogurt every 5 days or so. I make yogurt only once every 2 weeks, and find the refrigerated starter doesn't do the job as well, as the bacterial make up will have changed due to death or over proliferation.
3 - My method is to buy a container of plain yogurt, with live cultures, of a brand I like, and freeze enough "ice" cubes to give me enough starter for about 6 months. At the end of that time I make a double batch and, again, freeze enough for 6 months. And again, and again. This gives me (using 5 generations) 2 1/2 years of yogurt from one initial purchase. One could keep on in this manner until the results aren't as desired, and possibly extend the usage time; 6 months is about the limit for me.
4 - If there are more "ice" cube starters still in the freezer after the 6 months is over I just thaw them, add berries, and eat for breakfast.


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## DarleneJ (Jan 29, 2012)

SueMc said:


> I think yogurt for culturing lasts longer than 5 generations although the taste may morph into something different as "stronger" bacteria overgrow the "weaker" species in the yogurt, or the possible, accidental inclusion of "wild" bacteria. That doesn't make it bad or not yogurt, just different.
> 
> Regarding Turkey and other similar areas. I wonder if the containers that yogurt is made in doesn't make a big difference. I would think that yogurt made in wooden or clay containers or even skin bags would keep the yogurt viable and interesting for years!
> I read an article by a baker once. He talked about using an old wooden dough bowl given to him. The old lady said her family's rye bread dough had been mixed up and left to rise, almost daily, in the bowl for years and years. The baker talked about all the good stuff living in the wood in the bowl that was likely imparted into each new batch of dough.
> ...


 I read your links Sue. Thank you. They helped explain a lot to me.

My MIL is headed to India in a few months as a missionary. She told me (from past trips) that their yogurt does not taste like ours does. I reckon they don't change their starter every five batches. 

I'm well past 10 batches on my current starter. The yogurt tastes slightly different to me but still mild. I use dry milk currently. I yearn for the day I can use our own raw milk.

I guess I will keep experimenting. I don't think that "5" is necessarily the magic number of batches, but if something really drastic happens or a flavor that is really off, I'll start over. The amount and types of bacteria present in the air may vary from season to season, place to place.

I just wonder if our expectations are different than that of other cultures. They don't have the luxury of Dannon or Oikos producing mass quantities of yogurt in controlled batches.

Maybe when the in-laws are living in India, a trip there might be in my future. I would definitely check out the yogurt-making process there.


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