# Shooting a cat for pooping?



## Wolf Flower (Dec 21, 2005)

In another forum there's a discussion about letting cats run loose, and I was surprised to see that some people think it's perfectly OK to shoot a cat that is pooping in their garden. Now, shooting a dog that is attacking livestock, I can see. But shooting a cat for pooping? That just seems overboard to me, when you could install a motion-detector sprinkler, or any number of cat-proofing devices, or trap said cat and take it to a shelter. The end might be the same for the cat, but at least it gives a family time to find it if it's a pet.

What do you all think? Is the death penalty warranted for pooping in the garden?


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## postroad (Jan 19, 2009)

I would not complain if someone shot my cat for pooping in their garden.

In fact I wish someone would shoot a few of my cats for pooping in my garden.


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## mamahen (May 11, 2002)

I am a laid back person. 

I would never, ever shoot a cat for doing what it has to do. I might yell at it, chase it, squirt it with the hose, throw a pebble at it - but not kill it!

Would you shoot a deer, bear, rabbit, chicken, goose, what-ever - for pooping in your yard/garden? 

I know cat poo does not smell like roses, but some rain or drying out & it's gone. Or a quick flick of your shovel.

My own personal barn cats either go in the manure pile or in the grass (like our dogs do). My MIL cats use her flower bed. She tried moth balls. Now THAT was a horrible smell, poo & moth balls


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## mekasmom (Jan 19, 2010)

Wolf Flower said:


> What do you all think? Is the death penalty warranted for pooping in the garden?


Honestly, I wouldn't do that, but I don't see anything that wrong with people who do deal with stray cats that way. Stray, loose cats create major health risks by pooping on people's gardens.


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## beccachow (Nov 8, 2008)

I used to see a stray black kitty around here, was a barn cat from up the lane. Whenever I saw her, I would throw a glass of water at her. Worked great, she eventually DID stop coming down here. Shooting is, IMO, a bit extreme, especially when you wash the veggies after picking them anyhow, don't you?? Deer poop in the garden, birds poop in the garden, rabbits poop in the garden...need a lot of bullets for all that. Mice also poop in the garden...hunta virus, anyone?? Snakes slither through the garden, turtles nibble on lettuce...reptiles also carry viruses. All wildlife probably pee inthere as well. If you don't plan to wash your produce, well...yuck to start with, and shooting a cat is the least of your worries!


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## Oregon Julie (Nov 9, 2006)

I have to say that I have read some things from time to time on Homesteading with regards to the treatment of animals that I find appalling. I did not see the thread talking about shooting cats for pooping in the yard, but that sure falls into that category. 

We have also had those who think that the exceptable way of dealing with a wild animal that you have caught in a live trap is to drop it in water and let the poor thing drown. I happen to think that is very cruel and if you are going to trap something in that fashion at least have the decency to shoot it, quick and painless. Not make the animal suffer and struggle.

Now on the other hand I don't have a problem with someone shooting feral cats, it is the quick and painless part that is important to me. Since the majority of feral cats come to a rather bad end, cause many problems including spreading of diseases and produce countless other feral cats and compound the problem. However I would never shoot a cat simply for the act of using my yard as a toilet.


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## wolffeathers (Dec 20, 2010)

Is the cat in question simply shot because of the act it was performing?

Or is this a person that simply does with all stray cats the same way?

Last year we _almost_ resorted to shooting ferals. They would come onto the farm at night and start up their yowling. I found them in my rabbit barn. Not meek, scared little kittens; but large growling spitting tom cats. Many of them were very obviously sick, with weeping eyes and noses, hair falling out and open wounds. We believe a nearby neighbor(a couple blocks away) was feeding them and had a growing cat colony. Shooting would have been a humane way to dispose of these cats that were wasting away due to various ailments and FIV. If you are shooting any loose animal, you should shoot to kill and not injure. One of the most infuriating thing I have read, was someone who would intentionally gutshot an animal, so it would run off and die elsewhere so they wouldn't have to deal with disposal themselves..

So shooting loose cats because you are or have dealt with a local cat colony, I can see. It's not pretty by any means and nothing that anyone would enjoy or look forward to. But if you are infested with disease and aggressive feral cats, I can see shooting them as an acceptable solution. These aren't cats that would have handled trapping, handling, or transportation well. And to take them to the humane society around truly potential pet kittens would have spread disease or put AC workers at risk.

But to shoot your cat or a neighbor's well taken care of pet cat "just" because it pooped in your yard, no.


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## Wolf Flower (Dec 21, 2005)

wolffeathers said:


> Is the cat in question simply shot because of the act it was performing?
> 
> Or is this a person that simply does with all stray cats the same way?


The OP says he leaves cats alone as long as they aren't pooping in his garden, hay, or straw. But if he catches one doing it, he shoots it. It appears he doesn't care whether the cat is feral, or someone's pet.



> So shooting loose cats because you are or have dealt with a local cat colony, I can see. It's not pretty by any means and nothing that anyone would enjoy or look forward to. But if you are infested with disease and aggressive feral cats, I can see shooting them as an acceptable solution. These aren't cats that would have handled trapping, handling, or transportation well. And to take them to the humane society around truly potential pet kittens would have spread disease or put AC workers at risk.


That I can agree with.


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## kirkmcquest (Oct 21, 2010)

There are people who just want the excuse to kill something, they are usually small people with very little power in their lives. Or potential psychopaths.


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## postroad (Jan 19, 2009)

kirkmcquest said:


> There are people who just want the excuse to kill something, they are usually small people with very little power in their lives. Or potential psychopaths.


Could you elaberate on that theory?

Around here cats are not kept as pets but for rodent control. They do not particularily care for me and me for them.

And if I were to hold them to their leval of morality I would torture them for the better part of an hour before killing them instead of quick and painless.


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## barnyardgal (Sep 21, 2009)

Wolf Flower said:


> In another forum there's a discussion about letting cats run loose, and I was surprised to see that some people think it's perfectly OK to shoot a cat that is pooping in their garden. Now, shooting a dog that is attacking livestock, I can see. But shooting a cat for pooping? That just seems overboard to me, when you could install a motion-detector sprinkler, or any number of cat-proofing devices, or trap said cat and take it to a shelter. The end might be the same for the cat, but at least it gives a family time to find it if it's a pet.
> 
> What do you all think? Is the death penalty warranted for pooping in the garden?


I was so mad at reading that post that i did not make a comment on it as i would had gotton slammed no doubt...

I have 10 cats all running around here in a fenced yard & all are fixed...I live in the middle of 40 acres in the middle of nowhere with no close neighbors..I have 3 cats that can & do jump the fence sometimes to go to the woods but they don't go far...Two weeks ago SOMEONE shot one of my cats in the head with a 22 & he lived for a week,vet said best thing was to put him down,so i did...It had to been someone hunting or looking to kill cats MAYBE on my property,who knows...and we don't have any hunting season with a 22 right now,turkey season just got done & they use shot gun for that..

I have a 2' chicken wire around my garden to keep dogs or other animals out without any problem..I have several flower beds and NEVER have a problem with dogs OR cats bothering them..

I had 3 dogs last summer come from somewhere & went in the pond after my ducks/geese and i did not shoot them but thought about it as they was trying to kill MY animals,that is different than pooping...

AND i WOULD NOT have a dog who does not get along with ALL animals...My dog knows the difference between cats and *****/possums...she is an excellent watch dog for critters to...

thats my 2 cents worth...so slam away................

Good thing we all don't think a like!!!!!!!!!!!


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## olivehill (Aug 17, 2009)

Wolf Flower said:


> The OP says he leaves cats alone as long as they aren't pooping in his garden, hay, or straw. But if he catches one doing it, he shoots it. It appears he doesn't care whether the cat is feral, or someone's pet.


She. I'm a she. 

Nice picking and choosing of details, though. I'm surprised it didn't garner the responses you were looking for.


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## lamoncha lover (Mar 1, 2009)

so how about when they climb on your 12000 $ motorcycle thats in your open car port and leave it scratched up like a used kitty claw sharpener? Would it be ok then? 
We have some stupid neighbors that long ago must have had some unfixed cats. That made more cats..and more cats. Got a black cat, and an orange cat and a yellow cat that hang around. How am I to know whats feral and whats a pet?
I have actually adopted one of the feral cats. Only to have to put it to sleep after fixing it and vaccinating it..had feline leukemia. Not going to adopt anymore..and not gonna tolerate the in the garbage, and crawling and destroying much longer.
If ya love em..best to Keep em home folks.


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## Wolf Flower (Dec 21, 2005)

olivehill said:


> She. I'm a she.
> 
> Nice picking and choosing of details, though. I'm surprised it didn't garner the responses you were looking for.


Sorry about the gender mistake, it wasn't clear by your username so I assumed "he". I apologize.

What, do you assume, were the responses I was "looking for"? I was simply wondering if it is common practice in other areas to shoot cats that poop on your property. Shooting animals that attack livestock, yes, of course. But I never heard of anyone shooting an animal for pooping on their property. Around here, there would likely be a lot of angry outcry if that happened to someone's pet, and I shudder to think what would happen to the shooter. People can get pretty crazy about their pets.


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## postroad (Jan 19, 2009)

Immaculate Sublimity said:


> hmmm I guess its ok to post about torturing animals. Who'da thunk it?
> Nothing really surprises me anymore.


Reread my post. I said if.

If an animal needs killing around here I assure you that it is killed in as humane a way as possible. 

Am I supposed to engage in a lot of soul searching and drama over every animal that gets slaughtered for food on the place. Or any creature that gets killed to protect that livestock and gardens?

Should I shed a tear for the mice mama cat brings to the kittens so that they can learn to kill it the slow way. Maybe I should have let them keep playing with that terrified baby bunny they had been torturing a while back.

Instead I stepped on its head to put it out of its misery. Miserable person that I am.

I have some flytraps. Talk about mass murder their. Have been known to take an antibiotic know and again. Genocide on a global level there.

Yeah I know folks who would kill to protect the rights of there pets to come and go as they please. But they are the ones with the problems.


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## martenfisher (Apr 21, 2011)

I think cats can be a major invasive species. I think in many cases they need to be dealt with but how I don't know.
Just for pooping I don't think that would be a way I would judge somthings existence. I would weigh more so the over all damage being caused.


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## CheerfulMom4 (May 21, 2008)

We have shot 2 cats around here. They were feral and started spraying on our back porch. We also have 2 nice inside/outside cats and I don't want a bunch of disease ridden cats running around. Yes..my cats are all vaccinated.
Both of them when my husband picked them up to dispose of them were in horrible shape with hair falling out. 
There's another one around now and no we aren't feeding them.


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## mekasmom (Jan 19, 2010)

kirkmcquest said:


> There are people who just want the excuse to kill something, they are usually small people with very little power in their lives. Or potential psychopaths.


Killing animals is what gives humanity protein, and protects humanity from many diseases and problems. It is simply a fact of life that food has a face. 
I can understand dispatching a cat for soiling food in the family garden. It is food, not a litter box. Protecting it is protecting the lives of the people who use it for food.

Keeping a few LGD will solve a lot of these problems because they will dispatch any stray that enters the property, or chase if off if it is fast enough to get away. The humans won't have to deal with the problem because they will keep strays away one way or another.


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## tom j (Apr 3, 2009)

or the owner can/could keep the cat in the house .... should be a leash law just like with dogs ... I do not want your cat in my yard .keep it at home... If you love your cat or dog then take care of it and keep IT HOME...


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## TxHorseMom (Feb 21, 2011)

No, I would not shoot a cat for pooping. I have a basically live and let live attitude. As long as the animal in question leaves my livestock alone, it can be here. But, if it starts harming my livestock (or pets) then it will be shot. This includes, but is not limited to....dogs chasing my horses, raccoons, possums, etc killing my chickens who are in their own coop/enclosed yard, animals getting into the feed, possibly spreading diseases, and stray/feral cats fighting with/injuring my cats (who are spayed and receive shots) We are currently hunting raccoons who have repeadedly broken into my chicken coop and have killed 7 of my chickens.


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## Ronney (Nov 26, 2004)

martenfisher said:


> I think cats can be a major invasive species. I think in many cases they need to be dealt with but how I don't know.
> Just for pooping I don't think that would be a way I would judge somthings existence. I would weigh more so the over all damage being caused.


They can be - but who let them get like that. Irresponsible humans. I think now that in most countries the problem is so widespread that it is hard to stop, the only upside being that feral cats tend to have a short life, the downside being that in that short life they can beget a large number of off-spring.

Speying and nuetering help cut down their wandering and those that keep "barn" cats that are entire are as guilty as anybody for the growing population of unwanted cats. I have always kept cats, my home isn't complete without one of these self-sufficient, arrogant and independant creatures around, and sure, they irritate the snot out of me when they dig up my carrots and newly planted cabbages but I would no sooner shoot it or one of my neighbours cats, than fly to the moon. I can easily replace the vegetables, I can't replace that particular cat. 

I have no problem at all with the quick, humane death of a feral cat, particularly if it is sick and probably diseased. I have a huge problem with shooting something that may well be a much loved pet.

Really, is it such a biggy? I think I feel sorry for people who have so little to concern themselves with that they can focus on a cat having a pee!

And my way around it? I water the garden well in the evening. Cats hate digging in wet soil and will go and find somewhere drier than your wet vege/flower garden. 

Cheers,
Ronnie


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## jkmlad (Jun 18, 2009)

I know someone who works at a farm where everyone drops off their unwanted felines. They produce hay and straw. Last year the cat stench in the hay barn was so bad, that some of their customers commented that were going to start looking elsewhere for their hay and straw. Feral and stray cats are already overwhelming community rescue resources. Their solution was to shoot the cats. Kittens were dispatched first, then adults, until a more manageable amount of cats was acheived. Unfortunately, new additions arrive regularly, and they continue to have to dispatch of them in the same manner. This isn't a job they want to do, but the need is there.


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## postroad (Jan 19, 2009)

Immaculate Sublimity said:


> No, they've realised that the baiting simply doesnt work. You could probably learn something from that. Do have a lovely day, postroad.


So they did not learn to make logical arguments from the facts?

Are you indicating that because a cat is somebody's pet, that makes its life more valuable than the four cutworms I squished between my thumb and forefinger this morning.

That I can understand. But that would place some responsibility on the owner as well.

But if we take that route, my tomato plants which I nurtured from s tiny seeds and are intended to feed my family have more value than a feral or even excess cats that no one has any particular attachment to.

Or does a cats life hold intrinsic value apart from its human perspective.


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## Wolf Flower (Dec 21, 2005)

postroad said:


> Are you indicating that because a cat is somebody's pet, that makes its life more valuable than the four cutworms I squished between my thumb and forefinger this morning.
> 
> That I can understand. But that would place some responsibility on the owner as well.


Yes, the owner is responsible for their own pets, which is why it behooves you to tell your neighbors their cat is pooping in your garden, so they have the chance to deal with the problem... as opposed to handing them a dead carcass and a lawsuit. The latter isn't terribly diplomatic and is not going to make your neighbors feel very charitable toward you in the future.



> Or does a cats life hold intrinsic value apart from its human perspective.


Many people believe all life holds instrinsic value apart from that which humans assign, but that's more of a philosophical question.


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## hippygirl (Apr 3, 2010)

kirkmcquest said:


> There are people who just want the excuse to kill something, they are usually small people with very little power in their lives.


I've known a few of these people and that's dead-on accurate IMO.

As for killing an animal just because it's pooping on my property, nope...never happen. But if it's killing my animals (like that red fox I'm trying to get in my crosshairs), then yes, it's a goner.


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## NickieL (Jun 15, 2007)

I've had cats my entire life....I've fed strays too. Not once have I become sick from their poo in my garden.

There are just people in this world that can't stand the thought of having no control over everything....

Sad, but true. I'm glad I don't personally know people who would shoot an animal just for pooing.


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## wolffeathers (Dec 20, 2010)

It seems that the only disagreement is the warning of the 'pet' cat's owner. 

I think most realize it is realistic to have to deal with an overabundance, destructive, diseased, feral cats. It just comes down to the individual's breaking point. Our's was finding cats reaching into cages and scratching rabbits and poultry, cats fighting with our animals, cats acting like they were going to jump me(I'm not scared of the cat, but heaven knows the medical expense behind a diseased cat bite), and then the finding of dead rotting cats in and around the yard when they finally succumbed to their diseases.

Another's breaking point is the ruining of hay and threat of lost business.

Yet another is a cat in their garden destroying potential produce.

It does not seem to me that anyone here really shoots cats for the pleasure or for the power kick. They all have their reasonings and rationales, to each their own.

We no longer deal with that feral cat colony we had last year. Stray dogs learned that cats outside our perimeter fence were fair game, then we were having to deal with dogs that came through in a hunting mode. One of them was the houndmix Goose, our LGD, had to jump the other day. 

Not everyone will agree with everyone's reasonings and rationales, there is no reason to take it personal.


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## Wolf Flower (Dec 21, 2005)

wolffeathers said:


> It does not seem to me that anyone here really shoots cats for the pleasure or for the power kick. They all have their reasonings and rationales, to each their own.
> 
> ...
> 
> Not everyone will agree with everyone's reasonings and rationales, there is no reason to take it personal.


I never thought anyone was getting a kick out of shooting cats. It seems like it would be a nasty chore to have to do. I am just surprised to hear that people readily shoot them just for pooping--feral cats are one thing, I can understand the need to curb their numbers and end their diseased suffering. But a neighbor's pet is another thing, and it just aint good for neighbor relations to shoot first and ask questions later. 

Like I said, around here, it's not common practice and it would probably end up in the newspaper if it got out that someone was shooting pet cats. The shooter would probably suffer threats and harassment from the animal-loving community. I would not want to be in their shoes.

There was a big uproar in our county recently when a dog was shot for wandering onto a neighbor's property. The property owner insisted the dog was chasing his chickens; the dog's owner says the chickens were in a coop and the dog wasn't paying any attention to them. I don't know how things ended up, but there had been threats made to the property owner, and talk of lawsuits on both sides.


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## wolffeathers (Dec 20, 2010)

I guess it's who is doing the shooting or what the definition of pet is. 

Around here there seem to be two different types of cat keepers. There are those like my neighbor, who took in a feral female which resulting in kittens and so on and so forth. Now they have one heck of a large cat colony. By our neighbor, I'm talking about someone half a mile away. The cat colony ebbs and flows, when it flows they overflow over here. They name some of the cats or call them by distinguishing features "the black and white" "half tail" "one eye" "gimpy" and they put out about 8 bowls of catfood. It started with good intention and remains on good intention. You could go over there now and count 15 different cats and that's on the ebbing, when it's flowing there are tons more. They get hit, eaten by dogs, taken by hawks, poisoned, shot, picked up by folks looking for bait animals for their hunting or fighting dogs, the kittens are picked up by people wanting free food for their snake. These people call these cats their "pets" but the only care they recieve is food. If we were to approach these people and ask them to contain their pets "or else", well, those are fighting words. I don't know of anyone(except for the one person stating it here) who would actually shoot a cat and present it to it's owners.

We have the same struggles here between "pet" owners and "livestock" owners. Some people shoot dogs "proactively", some shoot them in the act of livestock destruction, some don't shoot and just sue. The majority of folks around here, just SSS. They don't want trouble with their neighbors, they don't want confrontation, they just want to prevent problems and move on.

We don't shoot dogs proactively, but I know people who do. There are people that will shoot a strange dog just as quick as they can when they cross over their property lines. Yes, people try to make them out to be monsters for shooting innocent lost puppies; but after talking to this same fella and introducing him to "our" dogs we found out that he used to not shoot dogs. He had a pack come onto his property one morning and he yelled and chased them off. He went to work and came home to find the pack had returned, tore into his 6' chainlink kennels and ripped his 4 week old litter of beagles to shreds and killed or maimed his adult dogs. So from now on, he shoots loose dogs on sight.

The majority of people around here won't claim their animals if they think it will get them in trouble. Dogs and cats roam without collars or ID. I don't think I have ever seen a cat around here with tags.

BUT, if I ever found a cat on our property with a collar and tags, we would notify it's owners(before we shot at it or turned it into AC). A cat without identifying information is most often assumed that it is a stray or feral or dropoff. 

I think this thread is an eye opener for some. 

It's my personal opinion that cat owners should be held the same as dog owners. If we find cats or dogs with collars and tags, we contain them and have the owners come pick them up. If(and it happens) that the owner tells me to "turn the animal loose and he'll come home", I call AC and have them come pick the animal up.

Our cat is an inside cat(she'll be 11 years old this year). My great aunt had cats she'd let outside, but only on a harness and tether in her backyard. I've known people with pet cats that got the appropiate cat fencing to keep their cat in the backyard. Yet another friend of mine has a shed where she keeps her rescued cats(she allergic, they can't be in the house) and they have a covered run that comes off the shed. We joked it was the "cat coop and run". 

If it were dogs that people allowed to roam unidentified, it would be assumed they were strays or dumped dogs. Even people who have dogs that can jump or climb a 6' fence are expected to take the necessary measures to keep their animals safe, or they are called unresponsible.


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## DamnearaFarm (Sep 27, 2007)

If cat ------ was the biggest thing I had to worry about my life wouldn't be too bad at all.


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## wolffeathers (Dec 20, 2010)

RamblinRoseRanc said:


> If cat ------ was the biggest thing I had to worry about my life wouldn't be too bad at all.


Ain't that the truth!


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## oregon woodsmok (Dec 19, 2010)

Please explain to me exactly how a person is supposed to know that the cat that runs around loose all the time is a pet and not an abandoned animal.

How is a person supposed to identify the owner of that cat to request that the cat be kept off his property?

If a cat owner feels that the cat has to be outside to be happy, is he going to change and keep the cat indoors after receiving a complaint?

Outdoor cats face lots of dangers. Does it really matter to you whether your outdoor cat dies from antifreeze, hit by car, killed by dogs or coyotes, contracts disease, or gets shot for killing chickens? You let your cat roam, you are taking your chances that it won't come home.

I see a cat wandering around without a collar on it, and I am going to assume that nobody cares what happens to it.

News flash: not everybody loves your cat. Cats are extremely destructive and can do thousands of dollars worth of damage. Not to mention that the smell of cat urine is very difficult to get rid of when your cat sprays all over someone else's property.

If you don't want to have your cat shot, keep it home.


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## tailwagging (Jan 6, 2005)

it is called a microchip. it is unsafe for a cat to wear a collar.


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## thaiblue12 (Feb 14, 2007)

I have got to say I am glad some people from that other thread are not my neighbors. They clearly fail in the neighborly dept. I talk first, I do not shoot first and get questioned later. 

My neighbor's cat sometimes comes down the driveway, oh shriek I must shoot it? The other one has a bad habit of getting into my car when I go over to his place, aside from the mild heart attack it causes me seeing him in the rear view mirror what is the problem? Should I get mad because he may have left me little paws prints, cats hairs or something in my car?

I have two farm cats, spayed and neutered, vaccinated and wormed 4 times a year. They are worth their weight in field mice. They have killed a total of 3 birds in their 6 and 7 years- no they have not keel over and die at the age of 2. They have killed a few moles and no snakes, the guineas have killed two snakes. How do I know what they kill? They take it into the garage, nothing like finding a headless mole with a cat chewing it to wake you up  
My farm cats are not livestock they are farm helpers., just like the LGD are. Ever had a field mouse make a nest in your engine? Or make one near your wipers and you find out during the pouring rain that they do not work and it costs you $75 to get it fixed? It is very annoying and my cats can eat them all  
I would rather not deal with mouse poop, pee, their destruction, their diseases and etc. 

They stay on my property but if they wandered over and took a pee/poop and my neighbor shot them then we would have a serious problem. 
Now if it attacked him, or an animal then I would expect him to come to me and say such and such happened you better keep your cat home or I will shoot it, take it to the humane society, trap it etc etc. 

I also have 3 house cats, also fixed etc they have no desire to go outside even though 2 are males who usually have more wanderlust. One is declawed the other two are not, they are not farm cats and are content to stay inside. 

We have dumped cats all the time I re-home them, does not cost me a thing to do it. I wish idiots would stop dumping their animals in the country but that is another thread


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## Shygal (May 26, 2003)

Its not just the poop.

Its the spraying all over the outside of houses, barns, inside barns, on hay, tires, bicycles, etc.
Its going after and killing my baby chicks that the mother hen cant defend all of them from.
Its the scratching and clawing up of MY property.
Its the jumping on the outside of MY screens and hanging off them, because they see my cats in the windows, and tearing my screens

Its bringing disease like feline leukemia and hiv onto my property 
Its them screaming at all hours of the night under my windows
its finding them digging upmy newly planted flower gardens
And vegetable gardens
And yes, pooping in them, and in the kids sandbox
its potentially spreading toxoplasmosis to me and my children and to my other farm animals

Cats can destroy a LOT of things with scratching and clawing 

I dont want your cats on my property. Why is that so hard for some people to understand? I wouldnt want your horse or cow or dog on it either.


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## Wolf Flower (Dec 21, 2005)

oregon woodsmok said:


> Please explain to me exactly how a person is supposed to know that the cat that runs around loose all the time is a pet and not an abandoned animal.
> 
> How is a person supposed to identify the owner of that cat to request that the cat be kept off his property?


To tell whether a cat is a pet or feral, trap it. Go around to your neighbors and ask if this is their cat, or if they recognize it. If they claim the cat, tell them you'd better not find it on your property again. At least they are warned; the rest is up to them. If no one claims the cat, you take it to the pound where they will either adopt it out or euthanize it. Problem solved and no one is angry with each other.



thaiblue12 said:


> I have got to say I am glad some people from that other thread are not my neighbors. They clearly fail in the neighborly dept. I talk first, I do not shoot first and get questioned later.


I had the same thought.

I would hope that my neighbor would have the decency to at least talk to me about the problem and give me a chance to rectify it. The first thing I did when I moved here was put up a 6 foot perimeter fence to keep my animals in. But when the contractors were at my place, they would sometimes leave the gate open and my Big White Dog snuck out a couple of times. Thank God my neighbors called me instead of just shooting him.


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## tailwagging (Jan 6, 2005)

more info on cat law
http://www.animallaw.info/articles/dduscats.htm



it is YOUR responsibility to protect your hen and chicks from harm. there is more out there then outside cats.


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## Ross (May 9, 2002)

Guys I understand why some might get a little ruffled at this thread but remember it's just a discussion. A bit heated at times but all I'm going to do at this point is to remind everyone it IS Ok to discuss awkward topics here, it IS NOT OK to make it a personal attack or use profanity. Be nice thats the rule show respect in your answers and we'll all be fine. Thank you all for the reported posts (I see Chuck handled one) it really does help and it is appreciated.


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## mekasmom (Jan 19, 2010)

Shygal said:


> Its not just the poop.
> 
> Its bringing disease like feline leukemia and hiv onto my property


You are so right......

And, we are talking about a garden here, not just pooping at the edge of the lawn. A garden..... That is a big deal. parasites, toxoplasmosis, bartonellosis, salmonella, even clostridia, and God forbid rabies are possible things being spread onto food. It is a very big deal. 

I don't understand how people can just brush it off and say, "well it's just cat poop." It is a BIG deal. I can certainly understand why some people would choose to dispose of the offender in this case. It could be a matter of life and death in some cases. Toxoplasmosis kills infants still in Mom. 
A cat contaminating foodstuffs is worse than having a dog attacking livestock IMO because the dog is only going to hurt the livestock, not spread a disease or parasites to the humans in the home. This cat choosing to use your lettuce bed as a toilet can directly affect your health. It is a big deal. 

I understand that some people love cats, cats can be pets, etc, but don't just brush it off. It really is a major health risk if a cat uses a garden as its personal litterbox.

Like I said before, honestly, I personally wouldn't hurt the cat. But I would point it out to my GPs, and stray cats do not fair well with them.


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## tailwagging (Jan 6, 2005)

mekasmom said:


> You are so right......
> 
> And, we are talking about a garden here, not just pooping at the edge of the lawn. A garden..... That is a big deal. parasites, toxoplasmosis, bartonellosis, salmonella, even clostridia, and God forbid rabies are possible things being spread onto food. It is a very big deal.
> 
> ...


cats don't like moist ground and most vegs do.


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## SquashNut (Sep 25, 2005)

they sure like my garden and it doesn't seem to matter when I water. But does that mean if I skip a watering I deserve to have a cat tear up my garden?

And who is trying to control who. The person who want the cats to stay away or the person who demands that we put up with their cat?


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## tom j (Apr 3, 2009)

Smithsonian Scientists Find that for Birds, the Suburbs May Not Be an Ideal Place to Raise a Family

There comes a time in life for every bird to spread its wings and leave the nest, but for gray catbirds, that might be the beginning of the end. Smithsonian Conservation Biology Institute scientists report fledgling catbirds in suburban habitats are at their most vulnerable stage of life, with almost 80 percent killed by predators before they reach adulthood. Almost half of the deaths were connected to domestic cats.

Urban areas cover more than 100 million acres within the continental United States and are spreading, with an increase of 48 percent from 1982 to 2003. Although urbanization affects wildlife, ecologists know relatively little about its effect on the productivity and survival of breeding birds. To learn more, a team of scientists at SCBIâs Migratory Bird Center studied the gray catbird (Dumatella carolinensis) in three suburban Maryland areas outside of Washington, D.C.âBethesda, Opal Daniels and Spring Park.

The team found that factors such as brood size, sex or hatching date played no significant role in a fledglingâs survival. The main determining factor was predation, which accounted for 79 percent of juvenile catbird deaths within the teamâs three suburban study sites. Nearly half (47 percent) of the deaths were attributed to domestic cats in Opal Daniels and Spring Park. Scientists either witnessed the deaths or determined that they were cat-related by the condition of the fledglingâs remains, such as a decapitated bird with the body left uneatenâdefining characters of a cat kill. The researchers did not detect domestic cats during predator surveys in the third suburban study site, Bethesda.

âThe predation by cats on fledgling catbirds made these suburban areas ecological traps for nesting birds,â said Peter Marra, Smithsonian Conservation Biology Institute research scientist. âThe habitats looked suitable for breeding birds with lots of shrubs for nesting and areas for feeding, but the presence of cats, a relatively recent phenomenon, isnât a cue birds use when deciding where to nest.â

Technology made tracking the fledgling catbirds possible. The team fitted 69 fledglings with small radio-transmitters. Scientists tracked each individual and recorded its location every other day until they died or left the study area. This detailed type of field research was very limited until recently when transmitters were made small and light enough for songbirds.

Tracking the fledglings revealed that the vast majority of young catbird deaths occurred in the first week after a bird fledged from the nest. This was not surprising to the team, given that fledglings beg loudly for food and are not yet alert to predatorsâmaking fledglings in suburban environments particularly prone to visual predators such as domestic cats. Domestic cats in suburban areas that are allowed outside spend the majority of time in their own or adjacent yards, so they are likely able to intensely monitor, locate and hunt inexperienced juvenile birds. The researchers found that rats and crows were also significant suburban threats to fledgling catbirds.

âCats are natural predators of not just birds but also mammalsâkilling is what they are meant to do and itâs not their fault,â said Marra. âRemoving both pet and feral cats from outdoor environments is a simple solution to a major problem impacting our native wildlife.â

The scientistsâ findings were published in the Journal of Ornithology, January 2011.

The Smithsonian Conservation Biology Institute serves as an umbrella for the Smithsonian National Zoological Parkâs global effort to understand and conserve species and train future generations of conservationists. Headquartered in Front Royal, Virginia, SCBI facilitates and promotes research programs based at Front Royal, the Smithsonianâs National Zoo in Washington, D.C., and at field research stations and training sites worldwide.

# # #


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## tailwagging (Jan 6, 2005)

An interesting 'Dead Nestling' query appeared in the Question Box section of the Sept/Oct 2000 issue of BirdWatcher's Digest. In addition to some dead baby birds in the yard, a reader found a found a few small birds with their heads missing. The answer is quoted below:

"The decapitations are a predictable behavior of common grackles during their nesting season and a year-round habit of several small owls. Among grackles, the behavior is not well studied, but probably serves to reduce competition for resources within territories, and ecologically it could be a
pre-predatory stage of ongoing development within the species. Given enough time, grackles could become birds of prey in the same manner that shrikes are."

"Owls typically decapitate their prey to disable it and the headless body is eventually eaten, although it might be cached for a while. If you find decapitated birds during the summer, the culprit could be jay, magpie, crow, grackle or owl. After Labor Day the probability shifts to owls."

http://audubon-omaha.org/bestofbbml/grackles.htm


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## cathleenc (Aug 16, 2007)

Why don't you put a fence around your garden? If you dislike and fear cats, then make sure to protect your food. Seems like basic and common sense.


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## SquashNut (Sep 25, 2005)

There is a fence around my garden. Put a fence around your cat.


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## Jackie (Jun 20, 2008)

SquashNut said:


> There is a fence around my garden. Put a fence around your cat.


Thank you! I have been thinking about these cat threads a lot today. I think its totally ridiculous that so many cat owners figure that its ok to let kitty roam. It's not. I would never ever let my horses, cows, dogs, rabbits, donkeys etc roam so why should the cat be any different? What makes the cat so special? This thread would be different I think if we were talking about stray dogs. My cat accidentally gets out of the house sometime. If she were ever to be disposed of by a neighbor it would be my own fault. Sure I would be upset...at MYSELF. And why do so many people out there have colonies of cats. How long would someone get away with a colony of dogs? Just roaming around. Ya right! I don't understand why so many people expect that the rules should be bent for a cat. If I ever caught a cat pooping in my vegetable garden I would SNAP. Honestly, I am pretty sure that _could_ kill me and/or my kids.


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## beccachow (Nov 8, 2008)

Really, am I the only one who washes vegetables? I agree, cats should be discouraged from roaming, but they are far from the only wild things defecating and or/eating from your garden. :shrug:


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## Laura Zone 5 (Jan 13, 2010)

Wolf Flower said:


> In another forum there's a discussion about letting cats run loose, and I was surprised to see that some people think it's perfectly OK to shoot a cat that is pooping in their garden. Now, shooting a dog that is attacking livestock, I can see. But shooting a cat for pooping? That just seems overboard to me, when you could install a motion-detector sprinkler, or any number of cat-proofing devices, or trap said cat and take it to a shelter. The end might be the same for the cat, but at least it gives a family time to find it if it's a pet.
> 
> What do you all think? Is the death penalty warranted for pooping in the garden?


I would trap it, and leave it on the neighbors porch with a note, that next time, the animal poops in my yard, I will make it disappear.
I think that is a fair warning.

And if I trap it again after it's pooped in my garden......
I will take it to the local humane society / dog pound, and report it to the sheriff.

If a **** / skunk / possum / etc. is destroying my garden, then I will do what I can to prevent it. If I cannot, I will eliminate the threat.


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## shanzone2001 (Dec 3, 2009)

I suppose the only time I might shoot a cat for pooping is if he was pooping out one of my hens that he ate for dinner!!!

:umno: OK, I lied. I could never shoot a cat. They may be a nuisance, but they are just cats. I like to choose my battles....I have too many other issues that deserve my frustration!


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## mekasmom (Jan 19, 2010)

beccachow said:


> Really, am I the only one who washes vegetables? I agree, cats should be discouraged from roaming, but they are far from the only wild things defacating and or/eating from your garden. :shrug:


But you eat many or those things raw. Washing will not get off bacteria/parasite eggs that have "grown" into the veggie or been sucked up the roots into the plant. They are contaminated. The only way to kill them is to cook them. And you just don't cook lettuce, and often don't cook many other plants from the garden like cabbage, tomatoes, green onions, broccoli, etc. Think about all the salad/spinach/onion recalls in the last few years from factory farms using manure as a fertilizer. Think about the people in the hospitals back then, or dead, from food poisonings from those contaminated plants. Clostridia and salmonella grow into the plant, and into the plant blood (juices) if they are contaminated. And those contaminations on those crops wasn't from cat manure, it was usually pig. Cat feces are more dangerous because they are felines. It wasn't all that long ago the Subways, Taco Bells were both in big financial trouble from tainted veggies.


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## Shygal (May 26, 2003)

cathleenc said:


> Why don't you put a fence around your garden? If you dislike and fear cats, then make sure to protect your food. Seems like basic and common sense.


I dont dislike cats. I have three of my own. I certainly do not fear cats 

However I do not let my OWN cats outside to poop in my garden, etc, so why should YOURS come here and do it??

Ive seen threads about neighbors dogs taking a dump in peoples yards and everyone here is up in arms at the neighbor, how dare they let them into your yard, they should control them, etc keep them in their own yard.

But a cat ? Apparently those get special dispensation.


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## tailwagging (Jan 6, 2005)

yes because it is reasonably easy to contain a dog (like a young child) but it is hard to contain a cat (like a 17 year old teenager)


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## NorCalChicks (Dec 7, 2007)

Hmmm...I have read each post and must come to the conclusion that I am torn! We have several cats, all indoors, fixed etc. (well Thunder insists on getting out occassionally, but he's a wus and comes right back!) Anyway we are obviously cat lovers, however I can certainly understand people not wanting someone elses cats on their property - although the shoot on sight method seems a bit extreme - but hey I'm a pacifist! My sister has barn cats, they took up at her place and had a litter of kittens before she knew it. Being a responsible person she has trapped and had fixed each and every one. Well I'm rambling - just wanted to say I'm for responsible animal ownership regardless of species.


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## cathleenc (Aug 16, 2007)

umm. Controlling a cat is rather an oxymoron.

Some of us get lots of dumped cats on their property. I personally take all of mine to be fixed and vetted. Those that have learned proper litter box manners move into my house or get rehomed. There are cats that did not learn about litter boxes when young and cannot be trained - those MUST remain outdoor cats. You cannot control an outdoor cat.

I fence my gardens. I don't like anyone taking a pee in my food - not even my kids. And yes, Becca, I do wash my vegies.... but after having my big male german shepherd take a likeing to marking the cherry tomato plant one year nothing I did could make me swallow those tomatoes. I fenced.


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## Jackie (Jun 20, 2008)

cathleenc said:


> You cannot control an outdoor cat.


yes you can. Electric mesh fences work, you can put wire mesh at an angle on top of a wooden fence...and really if people can't control a cat then my DFH thinks they should be classified as wild animals and people should have to get a permit to own one. lol! But he just hates how cats are such an invasive species and kill so many bird every year. Cats really really are an invasive species. 

I have a cat. I love cats. I am taking my cat to a show on the 28th. I am also planning to buy a $3000 bengal. So cat haters we are not, I just personally believe they belong in the house. Although my plan is to build a large outdoor wire pen off one of the windows for them. They will be able to go in and out as they please, but not leave the pen.


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## wolffeathers (Dec 20, 2010)

Goats are known to be hard to contain, but it is unacceptable that they be permitted to roam into neighbors gardens. 

There are people who own exotic animals, yet somehow manage to keep them contained for the most part. I bet primates would be exceptionally hard to contain, but monkeys running at large, would no doubtedly raise some animal husbandry questions.

People keep exotic birds, manage to control their animals.

Cats CAN be controlled, there are owners that do it every day. They can be tethered by a body harness(to avoid strangulation via collar). They can be placed in a covered enclosure(like a chicken coop). They can be kept in the house. You can build your fence to contain your cat, a strand of electric 4-5 feet up will prevent climbing. You can angle to the top of your fence inward, to prevent said cat from climbing over. 

What about the cats that are used to control mice and rats? I don't have a cat and have very little problems with rodents. I keep my feed bins closed, I don't free feed my stock, I don't kill off beneficial snakes, I allow a few of my chickens to roam to clean up any left over feed during feeding. The one barn cat we had was confined to the barn, as you would a house cat, confined to the house. To think that someone should have to fence a cat out of their garden/hay/barn/yard/etc so the cat doesn't get shot, is like saying everyone, everywhere should have to put up cat proof fencing along their stretch of a road, to keep their neighbors cat from getting struck by a car. Those that don't fence the cats off their section of road and the driver of the car is responsible for killing that cat, not the owner who let it roam. The concept is a unique one, that seems to only apply to domestic cats.

Are there occasional escapees? Of course, as with anything. Our calf has randomly appeared in the neighbors backyard when the tornadoes downed a tree on the electric fence. Did the neighbor shoot the calf? Nope. 

Why not? Because we don't have a large population people who think it's acceptable to allow their cows to roam at will, thus the random cow showing up was obviously an escapee and not to be mistaken one of the "thousands of feral cows". That being said, the calf was wearing a collar and leash. LOL!


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## Shrarvrs88 (May 8, 2010)

I have a BIG issue with cats roaming. And unaltered cats. IMO, they are like rats. They could kill my unborn baby or make it blind. They stink, they are disgusting, and I will eliminate them as I see fit. If you want a pet rat, I really don't mind. But I better not see it on my property. Same with a cat. 

You know what else makes me mad? I keep my dog contained while outside. But My neighbors don't see why they should watch their dogs. I have little kids, 3 and 1, and those dogs poop in my yard, same as the cats. That infuriates me.


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## mekasmom (Jan 19, 2010)

tailwagging said:


> yes because it is reasonably easy to contain a dog (like a young child) but it is hard to contain a cat (like a 17 year old teenager)


If you can't contain it then you shouldn't have it. If nothing else, use an electric (collar) fence. The creatures weigh over 7lbs, so they can wear them. They aren't stupid, they will learn to respect the boundaries. I've had goats on the collars that stayed loose in the yard without roaming, so I'm sure a cat could learn to respect the boundary.


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## SquashNut (Sep 25, 2005)

The thing is, there is something cat owners can do about this and that is to keep their cats under control. If you don't want them hurt take care of them. I think in the long run controling your cat will be much easier than controlling an irate gardener.


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## postroad (Jan 19, 2009)

I wonder what it would cost to fence a 1 acre garden to make it cat proof.

They have no problem with a five foot chain link fence.


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## longshadowfarms (Nov 27, 2002)

Laura Zone 5 said:


> I would trap it, and leave it on the neighbors porch with a note, that next time, the animal poops in my yard, I will make it disappear.
> I think that is a fair warning.
> 
> And if I trap it again after it's pooped in my garden......
> ...


If you warn them that it will disappear and then it does (even if you weren't the one that did it) you will be blamed.


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## Wolf Flower (Dec 21, 2005)

postroad said:


> I wonder what it would cost to fence a 1 acre garden to make it cat proof.


I've wondered that, too. I'd think it would be fairly spendy. And cats have ways of going under fences, or climbing over them via trees.

I have seen fence toppers that are supposed to be cat-proof. Not sure how well they work, or how they look after installation, but they do exist. We considered it, but opted instead for the kittenarium. Much cheaper solution for inside cats that crave a little outdoor time.


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## wolffeathers (Dec 20, 2010)

You know those cheap L shelf hangers? We have a couple of them under our livingroom windows on the inside and a pillow on them. That way our ornery(love her anyway) 11 year old cat can sunbathe. 

We've thought about building a shelf on the outside of the window and building a place she can lay in the fresh air.

Something along the lines of one of these:


















Here's some websites that give more ideas as well.((Taken of a previous HT thread)
http://www.cat-world.com.au/cat-enclosures-home-made-enclosures

http://www.catsofaustralia.com/cat-enclosures.htm


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## SquashNut (Sep 25, 2005)

Those look alot cheaper than me fencing a garden with a roof on it.


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## tailwagging (Jan 6, 2005)

Jackie said:


> yes you can. Electric mesh fences work, you can put wire mesh at an angle on top of a wooden fence...and really if people can't control a cat then my DFH thinks they should be classified as wild animals and people should have to get a permit to own one. lol! But he just hates how cats are such an invasive species and kill so many bird every year. Cats really really are an invasive species.
> 
> I have a cat. I love cats. I am taking my cat to a show on the 28th. I am also planning to buy a $3000 bengal. So cat haters we are not, I just personally believe they belong in the house. Although my plan is to build a large outdoor wire pen off one of the windows for them. They will be able to go in and out as they please, but not leave the pen.


you do know that cat shows are a high risk area? and there isn't vaccines for all that can be picked up there.


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## tailwagging (Jan 6, 2005)

mekasmom said:


> If you can't contain it then you shouldn't have it. If nothing else, use an electric (collar) fence. The creatures weigh over 7lbs, so they can wear them. They aren't stupid, they will learn to respect the boundaries. I've had goats on the collars that stayed loose in the yard without roaming, so I'm sure a cat could learn to respect the boundary.



Goats are herd animals they have a different mind set.

Goats are not needed to control rodents.


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## tailwagging (Jan 6, 2005)

postroad said:


> I wonder what it would cost to fence a 1 acre garden to make it cat proof.
> 
> They have no problem with a five foot chain link fence.


Run a bit of hot wire on it. not only does it keep out cats but other things as well.


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## tom j (Apr 3, 2009)

tailwagging said:


> yes because it is reasonably easy to contain a dog (like a young child) but it is hard to contain a cat (like a 17 year old teenager)


why do you think its so hard to contain a cat ???? you have a litter box in the house what need is there to let it run outside ???????????
I say its harder to contain a dog ,, they have to do there thing outside !!!!


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## tailwagging (Jan 6, 2005)

tom j said:


> why do you think its so hard to contain a cat ???? you have a litter box in the house what need is there to let it run outside ???????????
> I say its harder to contain a dog ,, they have to do there thing outside !!!!


Cats are sneaky and find ways out, then run off. A dog is a pack animal and is more likely to want to stay within his pack's land.

cats can climb, most dogs can't.


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## wolffeathers (Dec 20, 2010)

Just run some hotwire on the inside of your fence, that should keep Fluffy in.


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## Jackie (Jun 20, 2008)

tailwagging said:


> you do know that cat shows are a high risk area? and there isn't vaccines for all that can be picked up there.


Its just a household pet cat show. So far we are only running against 22 cats. loL! Cages are sterilized before each show and judges disinfect their hands between each cat (judges come to you). Not too worried about it. Been doing it since 1992.


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## Jackie (Jun 20, 2008)

wolffeathers said:


> You know those cheap L shelf hangers? We have a couple of them under our livingroom windows on the inside and a pillow on them. That way our ornery(love her anyway) 11 year old cat can sunbathe.
> 
> We've thought about building a shelf on the outside of the window and building a place she can lay in the fresh air.
> 
> ...



That makes me laugh to see that. I have a friend who had one of those on his house in England. Someone called animal control (or whatever the equivalent is over there) to report that someone had locked two cats in a cage with no food and water. They failed to notice the open window where the cats could go back into the house when they were done 'suntanning'.


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## Jackie (Jun 20, 2008)

postroad said:


> I wonder what it would cost to fence a 1 acre garden to make it cat proof.
> 
> They have no problem with a five foot chain link fence.


I don't think it would be too bad if you used electric mesh. It's less than a dollar a foot. Looked up a few sites and it averages about 80 cents a foot. So an acre would be around $650 plus the charger if I did the math right. I would totally pay that so my cat could have a whole acre to roam on. Too bad I live in town and the neighbors would squawk. Plus I would really want it to have a roof due to eagles/hawks.


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## Kiamichi Kid (Apr 9, 2009)

I read alot of these posts and have to just grit my teeth.I am sick and tired of other peoples animals costing me money.I have lost thousands of dollars over the last few years to people who were not responsible for their animals.Their dogs,cats,horses and cattle have destroyed alot of my property.Not one time when I was the "good neighbor" and reported the destruction of property to the animals owner did they pay me for the damage or start keeping their animals home.


My gardens and my animals are NOT a HOBBY...it's survival for me..
I live on an extremely meager fixed income..I am a disabled Veteran...I have neither the time money nor inclination to trap every animal...drive around until I find the owner etc to discuss it..And you never know what you'll get into here driving up on someones place unannounced..and makin demands/accusations too?Hmmm not to bright...


My livestock and my garden means my survival...I will protect it as I see fit...and that includes shooting any animal that poses a threat in any way as "I" see it...If fluffy..or spot...comes on my place...and cause "any" damage....it dies..plain and simple. If the owner cared about the animal..they would have kept it at home.Don't give me the ***%$# that you cant control a cat..I know better,I have seen it done.


Also for those that wanna talk about how"Around here blah balah blah" that anyone shootin cats etc would be threatened and harrassed by animal rights groups or what not..I say bring it on.. They are hypocrits...angered by the thought of mistreatment of spot and fluffy but would harm a human in retaliation...

I have a policy....anytime I encounter a threat to me or mine...I eliminate that threat by whatever means necessary..



I have lots of neighbors(unfortunately)...just one of them as an example..has 10...yes 10 dogs that run free..Last year.. they had 12..and I still had some chickens..BANG>>BANG...I have no more chickens..they are down 2 dogs..! Whats that you say..my chickens should have been protected?..they were..the dogs dug their way into the pen and killed every chicken as they couldn't escape the coop.


I had the same thing happen with another neighbors tomcat that got into my house via an open window..and killed 25 chics while I was mowing the yard..
If people controlled their animals we wouldn't be having this discussion..Take responsibility for you own animals!Keep them at Home!


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## tailwagging (Jan 6, 2005)

Jackie said:


> Its just a household pet cat show. So far we are only running against 22 cats. loL! Cages are sterilized before each show and judges disinfect their hands between each cat (judges come to you). Not too worried about it. Been doing it since 1992.


That is good. We have been to a couple CFA cat shows around here and thought about starting but with dog shows and rabbits......


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## NickieL (Jun 15, 2007)

and some of you would of just shot it on sight.....

good thing this cat didn't wander into any of your yards.
http://clipsyndicate.com/video/playlist/21958/2474596?wpid=10021


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## Laura Zone 5 (Jan 13, 2010)

longshadowfarms said:


> If you warn them that it will disappear and then it does (even if you weren't the one that did it) you will be blamed.


Then my neighbor will know, I am a woman of my word!!


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## wolffeathers (Dec 20, 2010)

NickieL said:


> and some of you would of just shot it on sight.....
> 
> good thing this cat didn't wander into any of your yards.
> http://clipsyndicate.com/video/playlist/21958/2474596?wpid=10021


If it had a harness and tags, it probably wouldn't have been lost for 3 weeks.


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## NickieL (Jun 15, 2007)

It may have been a house cat????!!!


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## wolffeathers (Dec 20, 2010)

I understand that. Both my house dogs and outside LGD have collar and tags. Just because it lives in the house, doesn't mean it may never escape or in this case the house gets destroyed. My goats have tags. The horses even have tags that go on their breakaway halters.

I am thrilled the lady found her cat, I was only stating if it had a harness and tags, it probably would have been returned to her sooner.

Would you not agree that a cat wearing a harness with identification tags would have a much higher chance of being returned to the owner? (Probably a less likely chance of being mistaken for a stray and getting shot at or taken to the pound to be euthanized) I know if I was in the process of dealing with a feral cat colony and a cat wearing a harness and tags walked in, I would pick it up and call the number on the harness. I have hundreds of neighbors, I could spend days going door to door asking people if they lost a cat.


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## Wolf Flower (Dec 21, 2005)

wolffeathers said:


> Would you not agree that a cat wearing a harness with identification tags would have a much higher chance of being returned to the owner? (Probably a less likely chance of being mistaken for a stray and getting shot at or taken to the pound to be euthanized)


Some people feel it's unsafe to put collars/harnesses on cats, since they could get hung up on something. However, my cats wear collars and tags even though they don't go outdoors. Ironically, I can't keep a collar on my barn cat. She gets out of every collar I've tried to put on her, so I finally gave up. Fortunately, she doesn't wander far.


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## NickieL (Jun 15, 2007)

Yup, keeping a collar on some cats is a lost cause. I've had a few cats that would wear them but most would either freak out about having something around thier neck or loose them the first chance they had.


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## Ross (May 9, 2002)

> If people controlled their animals we wouldn't be having this discussion..Take responsibility for you own animals!Keep them at Home!


 Nuff said if you ask me! Thanks Kiamichi!


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## Kiamichi Kid (Apr 9, 2009)

Ross said:


> Nuff said if you ask me! Thanks Kiamichi!


My Pleasure, Just seems to me if we all take responsibility for ourselves,our kids and our critters...then we'd all be better off. :cowboy:


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## Pops2 (Jan 27, 2003)

tailwagging said:


> Goats are *not needed *to control rodents.


neither are cats *NEEDED* to control rodents. poison is thousands of times more effective. but you don't want poison around, fine, repeating metal rodent traps take as many in a day as the best cat. nonvenomous snakes like kings & rat snakes do a pretty fair job as well. then the king of rodent control is a good working terrier. a good working terrier will kill more rats in a couple of hours than the best cat will in a month, not to mention innumerable mice, voles etc., adult groundhogs (that almost no cat will touch), possums, skunks, AND fox & racoons (that will both prey on barn cats). some people will disbelieve but i have & can post photos from british diggers of *HUNDREDS* of rats & mice killed in an hour or two by a couple or three terriers.
so no one *NEEDS* cats to control rodents. some people simply use it as an excuse to keep them (and in many cases allow them to be problems for their neighbors, after all they can't control the rodents if they aren't allowed to crap in the neighbor's garden and tear up the screen on their porch).


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## tom j (Apr 3, 2009)

why should I spend my time and money to try keeping your cat out of my yard .
one thing I do now and then is mix tuna and Epsom salt ,and put it out to give the cat a treat .. when it craps in there house they know how it is to deal with the cat poop. I wonder if they like cat poop in there house ,, more then I like it in my yard ... after all its there cat not mine ,, I just feed it now and then ..


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## Wolf Flower (Dec 21, 2005)

tom j said:


> one thing I do now and then is mix tuna and Epsom salt ,and put it out to give the cat a treat .. when it craps in there house they know how it is to deal with the cat poop. I wonder if they like cat poop in there house ,, more then I like it in my yard ... after all its there cat not mine ,, I just feed it now and then ..


You do realize, if you're actually feed the neighbor's cat, you're only encouraging the cat to come back on your property? Maybe it makes you feel good that the cat has nasty poops afterward, but this isn't going to solve anything & will only make the problem worse.


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## tom j (Apr 3, 2009)

after a week of cleaning it they keep the cat/dog home till they think the cat/dog will not get in to it any more ,after 3 4 times they keep them home ,, and we never see the cat dog running again .. 
the ones that have been here a few years keep the pets home , the new ones it takes a year till the pets are kept home ... one had a cat and dog ,, they woke up at 2 in the morn the cat pooped all over them , the bed ,, eather the cat or dog had pooped on couch , floor , chair , just about every thing in the house ,, needless to say the cat ,, dog has never been running again .


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## Wolf Flower (Dec 21, 2005)

tom j said:


> after a week of cleaning it they keep the cat/dog home till they think the cat/dog will not get in to it any more ,after 3 4 times they keep them home ,, and we never see the cat dog running again ..
> the ones that have been here a few years keep the pets home , the new ones it takes a year till the pets are kept home ... one had a cat and dog ,, they woke up at 2 in the morn the cat pooped all over them , the bed ,, eather the cat or dog had pooped on couch , floor , chair , just about every thing in the house ,, needless to say the cat ,, dog has never been running again .


I would think, if the cat is pooping all over the house, they'd be more likely to throw the cat outside.

Either way, it's not really getting any point across. The neighbors have no idea why their cat is pooping everywhere; one thing I'm sure they are NOT thinking is "Maybe he got into the neighbor's garden so the neighbor gave him tuna with epsom salts in it; maybe we should keep him indoors."

It seems this method is more passive-aggressive than anything. It might be in your best interest to talk to your neighbors about the problem, rather than playing an ugly prank that they won't understand. Sure would save time, and you'd be on friendlier terms with your neighbors, too.


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## tailwagging (Jan 6, 2005)

Pops2 said:


> neither are cats *NEEDED* to control rodents. poison is thousands of times more effective. but you don't want poison around, fine, repeating metal rodent traps take as many in a day as the best cat. nonvenomous snakes like kings & rat snakes do a pretty fair job as well. then the king of rodent control is a good working terrier. a good working terrier will kill more rats in a couple of hours than the best cat will in a month, not to mention innumerable mice, voles etc., adult groundhogs (that almost no cat will touch), possums, skunks, AND fox & racoons (that will both prey on barn cats). some people will disbelieve but i have & can post photos from british diggers of *HUNDREDS* of rats & mice killed in an hour or two by a couple or three terriers.
> so no one *NEEDS* cats to control rodents. some people simply use it as an excuse to keep them (and in many cases allow them to be problems for their neighbors, after all they can't control the rodents if they aren't allowed to crap in the neighbor's garden and tear up the screen on their porch).


ok, I raise shows dogs. some of them worth more $$$ then a milk cow.
I don't want poison around that they can get into.
mouse traps do little. 
snakes get into my show rabbits nest box and eat the litter. and eat chicks as well.
Terriers dig and have a very high pray drive. believe me if a terrier could have worked out here I would/could get some very good Australian show/working lines and do Earth dog trials as a hobby too but............



http://www.petplace.com/drug-library/magnesium-sulfate/page1.aspx

"Side effects of magnesium sulfate are central nervous system depression, erythema, hypotension, circulatory collapse, and myocardial depression.
Overdose can cause respiratory paralysis, asystole, and heart block."


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## Pops2 (Jan 27, 2003)

tailwagging said:


> ok, I raise shows dogs. some of them worth more $$$ then a milk cow.
> I don't want poison around that they can get into.


 i absolutely agree & i am very concerned about my neighbor's poisoned voles being eaten by one of my hunting dogs (good hunting dogs are generally more expensive than show dogs for example good, but not great, bobcat & lion hounds will cost more than 10 grand).



tailwagging said:


> mouse traps do little.


 BS, the all metel repeating mouse & rat traps i mentioned are very effective. they have the smell of food and the smell & sounds of another LIVE rodent in the trap to draw in even wary rodents. they hold a dozen or more each. one won't do but half to a full dozen located along main travel ways between food sources & nesting sites can reach capacity over night (which is more than any single cat will kill in a 24 hr period). dispatch only requires a box, hose & car exhaust or a plastic bin & dry ice.



tailwagging said:


> snakes get into my show rabbits nest box and eat the litter. and eat chicks as well.


 a very real possibility & why it's usually only really people w/large livestock that welcome their presence.



tailwagging said:


> Terriers dig and have a very high pray drive. believe me if a terrier could have worked out here I would/could get some very good Australian show/working lines and do Earth dog trials as a hobby too but


 the very high prey drive is why working bred terriers can & will kill over a hundred rodents in a day (even nonworking bred terriers can rack up several dozen if they want to). i can only assume that you feel the prey drive is a threat to your small stock, which is true if left to their own devices. however like any hunting dog they can be trained to leave certain animals alone, it's called trash breaking & stock breaking and is done all the time by terriermen in both the USA & britain. they dig mostly from boredom (but so do most workbred dogs), if worked regularly they don't dig except on the job. the digging helps them to reach vermin in haystacks, behind hay bales & will show you rodent tunnels which can then be smoked so the dog can kill them.

in short, you're making excuses when the main reason you have cats for rodent control is because you like them. there is nothing wrong w/ that. what is wrong is expecting others to put up w/the destruction they cause if you don't control them. i haven't seen anywhere you have actually said people should, but your excuses defending the cats implies this attitude & that will create conflict where there may not have had to be any.




tailwagging said:


> http://www.petplace.com/drug-library/magnesium-sulfate/page1.aspx
> 
> "Side effects of magnesium sulfate are central nervous system depression, erythema, hypotension, circulatory collapse, and myocardial depression.
> Overdose can cause respiratory paralysis, asystole, and heart block."


yeah,but at least he isn't trying to kill them on purpose, & just as importantly the owners eventually stop letting the cats roam, which i think is the far more important end result because it carries over to the next cat they get.
besides there are so many ways a roaming cat can get hurt or killed w/o any intentional human involvement, that epsom salt poisoning is a relatively low risk.


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## Pops2 (Jan 27, 2003)

tailwagging said:


> Cats are sneaky and find ways out, then run off. A dog is a pack animal and is more likely to want to stay within his pack's land.
> 
> cats can climb, most dogs can't.


many dogs have a jones for wandering, especially dogs w/a strong hunting drive. all the pack instinct does is make them want to come home within a day or two. climbing ability is usually an accidental discovery while highly excited, usually by prey (like a free roaming cat).


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## Pops2 (Jan 27, 2003)

Wolf Flower said:


> You do realize, if you're actually feed the neighbor's cat, you're only encouraging the cat to come back on your property? Maybe it makes you feel good that the cat has nasty poops afterward, but this isn't going to solve anything & will only make the problem worse.


apparently it has solved the problem. sure the owners just get rid of or contain their cat out of a selfish desire not to havea sick cat in the house, but what matters is the end result not the reasoning behind it.
remember if it's stupid but it works, then it isn't stupid.


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## Wolf Flower (Dec 21, 2005)

Pops2 said:


> in short, you're making excuses when the main reason you have cats for rodent control is because you like them. there is nothing wrong w/ that. what is wrong is expecting others to put up w/the destruction they cause if you don't control them.


Personally, I considered getting a terrier for rodent control, until I realized that if a cat can get out of my yard, a terrier probably can too. The fence keeps my dogs and goats in, but due to its catlike size, a terrier could probably dig out, climb out, or squeeze out where a big dog can't. And as much as people are annoyed by cats roaming onto their property, roaming dogs bother them even more.


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## mekasmom (Jan 19, 2010)

Pops2 said:


> besides there are so many ways a roaming cat can get hurt or killed w/o any intentional human involvement,


Another point is that if the owners really did care that much about the cat, it wouldn't be roaming to get eaten by coyotes, ran over by a car, killed by a raccoon, catch FLV, parasites, rabies, etc.... If the cat is roaming everywhere on a regular basis then the owners obviously don't care what happens to it. It shouldn't be loose to destroy other people's gardens or spray their doors, or to get killed by dogs or other means. The fault is with the owners not the cat, not the other people who are being harassed by the cat, not AC, not anyone but the owner.


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## Pops2 (Jan 27, 2003)

mekasmom said:


> Another point is that if the owners really did care that much about the cat, it wouldn't be roaming to get eaten by coyotes, ran over by a car, killed by a raccoon, catch FLV, parasites, rabies, etc.... If the cat is roaming everywhere on a regular basis then the owners obviously don't care what happens to it. It shouldn't be loose to destroy other people's gardens or spray their doors, or to get killed by dogs or other means. The fault is with the owners not the cat, not the other people who are being harassed by the cat, not AC, *not anyone but the owner*.


this 100%


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## Wolf Flower (Dec 21, 2005)

mekasmom said:


> The fault is with the owners not the cat, not the other people who are being harassed by the cat, not AC, not anyone but the owner.


Which is why I don't feel that feeding the cat epsom salts is going to help anything. The cat is not going to understand that the abdominal cramps and diarrhea is connected to its wandering, and the cat's owner isn't going to understand that either.


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## Pops2 (Jan 27, 2003)

Wolf Flower said:


> Personally, I considered getting a terrier for rodent control, until I realized that if a cat can get out of my yard, a terrier probably can too. The fence keeps my dogs and goats in, but due to its catlike size, a terrier could probably dig out, climb out, or squeeze out where a big dog can't. And as much as people are annoyed by cats roaming onto their property, roaming dogs bother them even more.


i have a friend in IA w/ seven working terriers (however 3 are mostly retired). he puts in the effort to train them (has a better handle than most weekend duck hunters do on their labs) & he works them often (mostly on ****, but other stuff as well). he doesn't have roaming problems. like anything, success is about the effort you put in. i'd guess you're overloaded already & recognized the work that would go into a good terrier. so you made the smart choice. wish more people would do that.


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## Pops2 (Jan 27, 2003)

Wolf Flower said:


> Which is why I don't feel that feeding the cat epsom salts is going to help anything. The cat is not going to understand that the abdominal cramps and diarrhea is connected to its wandering, and the cat's owner isn't going to understand that either.


but the owners do recognize that
1. their cat roams
2. their cat gets sick all over the place when it roams
3. if the cat isn't allowed to roam it doesn't get sick

so they either get rid of it or keep it home, in this case the end result is what matters.


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## wolffeathers (Dec 20, 2010)

I think getting shot is one of the more humane ways a roaming cat comes to an end. 

How many get struck by cars, attacked by wild animals, attacked by loose dogs. The worse comes when people get so frustrated with owners not controlling their cats that they decide to do something about it and it's not as humane as a gun. My husband was sitting behind his work place watching the local cats that wait to be fed, when a shadow fluttered by, a cat screamed and a redtail came by and snatched a cat. They said the cat fought and screamed in the claws of the hawk(in the air) before going limp, it didn't stand a chance.

It is flat out scary how many times people suggested feeding a sponge saturated in bacon grease to control our crazy cat colony. Or other poisons like antifreeze or insecticide. ((Please note that these are what other people suggested and not methods I have used.))

The bottom line is a roaming cat is a cat in serious danger. Whether it be environmental or the people who's property that are destroying or other free roaming cats or ???.


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## Wolf Flower (Dec 21, 2005)

Pops2 said:


> but the owners do recognize that
> 1. their cat roams
> 2. their cat gets sick all over the place when it roams
> 3. if the cat isn't allowed to roam it doesn't get sick
> ...


Wouldn't it be better for everyone to go to your neighbors and say "Is this your cat? It's been pooping in my garden and I don't like it. Please keep your cat at home."

Should the owner refuse, or the owner can't be found, then a trip to the shelter gets the cat out of your hair.

Or, if you're of a mind to shoot it, at least the owner was warned.


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## Wolf Flower (Dec 21, 2005)

Pops2 said:


> i'd guess you're overloaded already & recognized the work that would go into a good terrier.


That's exactly it. I take dog-raising very seriously, and wouldn't just throw a terrier into the yard and expect it to solve my rodent problem.


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## Ross (May 9, 2002)

And thats enough of this carp.


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