# ewe rejected ram lamb help



## RiverPines (Dec 12, 2006)

My ewe had a ewe lamb first and bonded well and suckled it. Later the ram was born and she licked his face clean and a little on his body then went back to the ewe lamb. Once that ram lamb was up she kept running away and pushing it away from the other lamb. Finally she went after the ram lamb, butted it, rolled it, and then backed up stomping hooves and charged but i grabbed him right before her hooves came down on him.

Never had a ewe do this before.

Advice?

Also if she wont take him back can he have goat colostrum? My ewe wont let me near her udder.


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## bknthesdle (Mar 27, 2011)

Goats milk or colostrum is just fine for a lamb. The lady I am learning about sheep has goats and milks them for when she has a bottle lamb.


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## VA Shepherd (Dec 26, 2010)

I don't suppose you've still got the afterbirth? If you drape him in it, that can really help (gross, but effective). Otherwise, you'll need to pen them together but watch them closely so she doesn't hurt him, and hold or tie her to let him nurse. I would strongly suggest forcing her to feed him for a couple of days until you're sure she won't ever take him, otherwise she'll dry down and be unable to feed him even if she wants to. Other tricks I've heard of but never tried: dab him with molasses and/or salt to encourage her to lick him; smear the other lamb's poop on his butt; and finally (this one seems risky with another lamb involved) smear Vick's vaporub on his butt and her nose, that confuses her sense of smell and she might take him (last resort, I'm skeptical on that one).

That's never a fun situation, good luck.


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## RiverPines (Dec 12, 2006)

She rejected him after she licked him. She didnt want him near the other lamb. I am afraid to put him back after what she did. He would be dead if I wasnt there to grab him away. I grabbed him just as her hooves came down. After she rolled him she reared up to stomp him.

I'm not risking it since I have the goat colostrum.

Plus we do not have a barn and are dealing with the cold, down to 20F tonight, and just sheep shelters, which hers is 6x10ft and 4 ft tall. Not easy to do squat in there trying to bond her to a lamb she has decided is a threat to her ewe lamb.
And its dark!!!


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## RiverPines (Dec 12, 2006)

Oh and she is a FF. 

I bottle lambs before but not before they had the ewes colostrum.
At first light I am going to tie her up and milk her meanwhile, goat colostrum.


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

> which hers is *6x10*ft


The pen should be about half that size so she can't walk away from them.

I have Dorpers and use 4 X 4 pens and out of over a hundred lambs born here, have only had one rejected that I was able to graft onto another ewe


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## RiverPines (Dec 12, 2006)

Bearfootfarm said:


> The pen should be about half that size so she can't walk away from them.
> 
> I have Dorpers and use 4 X 4 pens and out of over a hundred lambs born here, have only had one rejected that I was able to graft onto another ewe


she is a 200+ pound, not pg, cotswold. She is crowed as is in 6x10. She is a big girl. She woudnt even have had room to birth in anything smaller. When she layed, she was nose and butt to the walls when she stretched to push.


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## RiverPines (Dec 12, 2006)

Anyone know how much colostrum and how often? He took 2oz already.


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## Goatsandsheep (Jun 7, 2006)

You should feed 15% of the lambs body weight a day. A 10lb bottle baby would get 4oz six times a day. Hope I did the math right. Over feeding can cause a lot of problems.


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## RiverPines (Dec 12, 2006)

Goatsandsheep said:


> You should feed 15% of the lambs body weight a day. A 10lb bottle baby would get 4oz six times a day. Hope I did the math right. Over feeding can cause a lot of problems.


I know about over feeding. Thats why I asked how much and how often. I know it starts out often and the feedings get farther apart. Just dont know the schedule. Its been a couple of years.


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## VA Shepherd (Dec 26, 2010)

This is a ballpark schedule I found online a few weeks ago:

Feeding Schedule (adjust according to lamb size)
1-2 days: 2-3 ounces, 6 times a day.
3-4 days: 3-5 ounces, 6 times per day.
5-14 days: 4-6 ounces, 4 times per day. 
15-21 days: 6-8 ounces, 4 times per day. 
22-35 days: 16 ounces, 3 times per day.

Play with it a little to see what works for you, but it's a good starting point.


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## RiverPines (Dec 12, 2006)

VA Shepherd said:


> This is a ballpark schedule I found online a few weeks ago:
> 
> Feeding Schedule (adjust according to lamb size)
> 1-2 days: 2-3 ounces, 6 times a day.
> ...


Thank you. Having a start works for me.


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## RiverPines (Dec 12, 2006)

Now she rejected her other lamb. She started pushing it into the corner and wouldnt let it come by her. It started getting weaker as the ewe refuses to let it suckle too. She let it suckle for a minute shortly after it was born and that was it.

I dont know why. she passed after birth fine, didnt eat it though.

She is eating and drinking, in fact thats all she has done through this is eat.
She even ate while she was pushing! I never saw that before, grabbing mouth fulls of hay in between pushes.

The other ewe is a great mom. Both her lambs are eating all they want and she lays with them. 

Do some ff ewes mess up the first time? She is healthy and shows no probs. her udder is full too. I checked her udder and her teats are unplugged and milk fine. She just doesnt want lambs near her. I even tried grain to get her to let her ewe lamb suckle and she moved and kicked it away several times.

She has licked her ewe lamb constantly, as long as it doesnt go near her back end. If it did she turned and licked it some more and when it persisted to go to the udder, she shoved it down and kept it down. 

If it wasnt 25 out side I would tie her to the fence to get her lambs on her but its dark and cold making it a nightmare for me. I dont have help either. My mate is at work and Daisy is not in the mood to co-operate.


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## RiverPines (Dec 12, 2006)

Got a plan. W have a support beam in the rabbitry where its above freezing. We are thinking of tieing her to that and trying to get at least her ewe lamb on her teat.

I am wondering. she is engorged and was soon after the first lamb was born. The lamb of course pokes her udder. could it hurt and she is associating the lamb with getting hurt because her udder is tender?

Maybe if the lambs get some of that engorgement down she will be willing to suckle them?


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## Laurie J (Mar 9, 2005)

I wouldn't even dare leave her alone with these lambs or you'll likely have two dead lambs. If she were mine, I'd cull her and not take a chance on this happening next year. A ewe that is that aggressive isn't likely to accept the lambs, and even if she is sore, she would move away from them, not try to kill them. Every once in a while there is a ewe that is just not cut out to be a mom! Just my two cents worth!


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## Ronney (Nov 26, 2004)

RiverPines said:


> Got a plan. W have a support beam in the rabbitry where its above freezing. We are thinking of tieing her to that and trying to get at least her ewe lamb on her teat.
> 
> *I am wondering. she is engorged and was soon after the first lamb was born. The lamb of course pokes her udder. could it hurt and she is associating the lamb with getting hurt because her udder is tender?*
> Maybe if the lambs get some of that engorgement down she will be willing to suckle them?


By deduction, you have got the answer. She isn't a bad mother, she is just a sore one. Cows will do the same thing with their calves if they come in with a heavy udder and oedema. So you are going to have to bring this ewe in, tie her back and front to the rails of your pen, hobble her will help as well, and put the lambs on. Fomenting her udder with warm water before putting the lambs on is also a good idea. A pain in the butt and time consuming but if you can manage it four times a day the lambs will survive and within 2-3 days her udder will come right by which time she will probably be happy to accept both lambs.

Cheers,
Ronnie


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## VA Shepherd (Dec 26, 2010)

Yup, my best milker has done that both years now. It took her about 36 hours this year. But the lambs were never in any danger, she wasn't rough with them, so it was a little easier for me. It's good you've found a place to secure her, that's going to be really helpful. Since of course you can't watch them every minute, you might want to rig up a small divided pen while you get some sleep. Keep them close enough that she doesn't lose track of them, but a divider will keep her from hurting them. You just have to help them nurse evry 2-4 hours..... Who needs sleep, anyway?


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## sheepish (Dec 9, 2006)

Check their teeth. In our flock, any lambs that a ewe first accepted and then did not allow to nurse had sharp teeth. When we found that, it was easy to use a bit of sandpaper to file them down a little.


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## Fowler (Jul 8, 2008)

Unless you want to bottle feed, I would make her except it. She let it feed once...she will do it again.
Like I stated before in another thread...hold her down, or sit her on her rump and let the little guy feed, you will have to do this every two hrs. Once the little guy starts pooping his moms smell (Milk) she will take him. This has worked for me. It's tiring, but I work in town...so having a bottle lamb without help was not an option last yr.

Just my 2 cents


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## lambs.are.cute (Aug 15, 2010)

I had a ewe with a majorly engourged udder this year. I just milked it out and fed it to the babies. 250+ not happy ewe rodeo but it only took two milkings before her udder went down and as soon as I had restrained her on of her lambs came running over and nursed so........ Now she is fine but she only swung away from the babies on that side, not tried to kill them.....


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## lambs.are.cute (Aug 15, 2010)

oh and as an added benifit she had more colostrum than her babies would drink so now I have frozen colostrum for next year's emergancies.


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## Fowler (Jul 8, 2008)

lambs.are.cute said:


> I had a ewe with a majorly engourged udder this year. I just milked it out and fed it to the babies. 250+ not happy ewe rodeo but it only took two milkings before her udder went down and as soon as I had restrained her on of her lambs came running over and nursed so........ Now she is fine but she only swung away from the babies on that side, not tried to kill them.....


I agree...milk her out....I had a ewe with a huge udder and teet was huge too...I had to milk her out and it went back to normal so they both could eat.


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## bruce2288 (Jul 10, 2009)

This is not that unusual. I get at least one ewe/year doing this. Sometimes even after nurseing a lamb for a couple of days, then decideing she does not want one. I place the ewe in a stancion in a small pen. The front where her head is locked in is solid wood so she can not see or smell the lambs. She can get up and down. She is fed and watered there for 3 days, then released in the small pen 5x8 with the lambs. Usually after 3 days they will claim lambs, if not back in for another 3 days. Some ewes will never claim the lamb.


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## lambs.are.cute (Aug 15, 2010)

bruce what breed do you have?


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## RiverPines (Dec 12, 2006)

If I sound testy please excuse. I am exhausted and not a happy camper.
Thanks for all of the suggestions. I was up all night trying my best with the resources I have to no avail.
I am only 5ft tall and 100 pounds wet and 51 years old struggling with a 200+ pound ewe thats PO'd.

I just keep a couple of ewes to breed for some mutton in our freezer. I am not set up for some larger type operation. In the past I always pasture lambed and had no prob except one ewe that prolapsed and the vet couldnt save her but saved the lambs.

So I cant pen her up next to her lambs in some small area. I dont have facilities for it. I just have plywood shelters and pens with access to a field.

I cant sit on her rump as she just takes me for a ride. 

I tied her up to the pole in the rabbitry and got beat to heck fighting her when any lamb was put near her udder. It was easier to milk her than use a lamb. She tolerated milking without as much of a fight. She couldnt even stay in the rabbitry because the cages are hanging and the dirt floor is the rabbits toilet. So I had to let her back out to her pen after the battle was done and I got some of her colostrum. 

Her shelter is solid plywood walls. Cant do anything with that.

She takes the ewe lamb but only wants to non-stop lick the thing. She just doesnt want it near her udder. 

I decided after a long night of heck to just bottle the lambs. Its better than getting beat up by a 200 pound ewe.
We also decided we are culling her. 

She even attacks the other ewe's lambs through the fence. I cant trust to let her back with her pen friend when she tried killing one of her own lambs and wants to kill the others. That alone makes her not worth it for us. I dont need a ewe that cant be trusted around lambs.

I never had a ewe like this and dont want one now and ewe mutton is delicious so we still have that.

So I have bottle lambs, no big deal. I am black and blue and done.

I almost forgot. We milked her so her udder was soft. I hoped with the pressure gone she would relax. Nope!
She still hates her udder or teats touched. The lambs teeth also are not sharp either. 

I think she just isnt mom material.


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## kabri (May 14, 2002)

Riverpines, how is it going???? I'm so sorry to hear this, our FF (and only ewe to lamb so far) is just the opposite, is so protective of her twins that I"m worried she's not eating enough! I also had a ewe last year who would not let her lamb nurse on one side. That teat got very engorged and I milked it several times a day. She figured out that milking helped and kind of cooperated. It helped, eventually the lamb started nursing on both sides and her udder got symmetrical again. Let us know what happened with your ewe and lambs!

Oh no, I just saw your post, so sorry to hear that, but I think you are making the right decision to cull the ewe and save the lambs. Glad you got some milk from her, lambs should be just fine now!!!


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## VA Shepherd (Dec 26, 2010)

Yup, sometimes, you just reach that point, and the decision is made. Sorry it was so much trouble all around, but it sounds like you've got a plan. 

I hope the rest of your lambing goes better!


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## RiverPines (Dec 12, 2006)

I dont believe this. My kids and I took the lambs outside is the sun so they could get fresh air and romp around like lambs.
Daisy was watching and after a short while started just yelling her head off. She was in her pen, not locked up.
Well I turned to my daughter and said, maybe we should just put her ewe lamb in the pen and see what happens. One last ditch effort. We agreed, nothing to loose and at least shut Daisy up for a bit.
She didnt go nuts licking the lamb has she has been. She let it run right to her udder and let it suckle! Both my daughter and I stood there with our mouths hanging open totally shocked.
Then to my amazement she led the lamb into her shelter and layed down 'with' it!

Delayed mom hormones? :shrug:

The ram lamb is still evil demon baby in her eyes. It goes near her fence and she wants to ram it into outer space.

One thing I noticed jn the pics of the birth, the ram lamb, second born, was covered in meconium. The first born ewe lamb had none on her. I couldnt see in the low darkness at the time of the lambing but the flash on the camera caught it. I think that may be why she started to clean it and then just stopped and didnt want anything to do with it. Second one different from the first maybe turned her off?
She also ate the first ones afterbirth, the ewe, but not the second ones, the ram. 

So looks like only the ram lamb on the bottle and maybe Daisy can escape the freezer.


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## VA Shepherd (Dec 26, 2010)

You know, when they do this kind of stuff, I always get the feeling they've planned it all out, late at night in the barn: "Okay, you have your babies in the blizzard that's coming, I'll have mine on shearing day, you shove one under the fence, and then you other two should both have triplets on the same night and then pretend you don't want any of them! That'll fix 'em good!" :nana:

Sheep. WAAAAYYYY smarter than non-shepherds give them credit for. :bow:

I'm glad you've only got bottle lamb to feed. Sounds like Daisy has made her feelings clear, she fully expects your cooperation! 

And you thought the weather was going to be your biggest problem....


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## Callieslamb (Feb 27, 2007)

I am sooo sorry Riverpines. I hear you about being alone and trying to do it all. The only way I could handle my ewes was to block them in with bales of hay until they literally couldn't get away. Then I was able to get the lambs nursing. Mine didn't reject their babies though, but I do think hormones had something to do with it. One was just uncooperative...then 2 hours later, you'd have thought we were best friends. I just wish they better understood that when it's that cold out- those babies need milk. Glad it's working out better.


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## RiverPines (Dec 12, 2006)

Callieslamb said:


> I am sooo sorry Riverpines. I hear you about being alone and trying to do it all. The only way I could handle my ewes was to block them in with bales of hay until they literally couldn't get away. Then I was able to get the lambs nursing. Mine didn't reject their babies though, but I do think hormones had something to do with it. One was just uncooperative...then 2 hours later, you'd have thought we were best friends. I just wish they better understood that when it's that cold out- those babies need milk. Glad it's working out better.


LOL, the visual I got when you said how you blocked off with bails of hay. We buy ours one large round at a time. I could see me trying to move one of those. eep: LOL

Thanks everyone. Maybe she heard us talk about eating her. 

ok, my daughter and I have been checking on her and the lamb. Fine!!! 
She is only letting the lamb suckle one side, so we pinned her against the wall and let the lamb suckle that heavy side. We did that 2 times today, will do it one more tonight. I dont want udder probs.
Daisy is handling it better too. She doesnt seem so phobic. LOL. You can tell that one side is sore when the lamb latches on but after a few suckles Daisy calms back down. 

Lamb is active and going potty so maybe we're going to be alright here.

Of course ram lamb is doing fabulous on the bottle since he never got to bond with mom. So we got our re-enforcements called to duty to help with him. 
Our GSD helps out with bottle lambs. She cleans them and cleans up their butts like she would a puppy. Sdshe lays with them and keeps them near. Matoo is a great foster sheep mom.  
This is her 4th bottle lamb she is helping to raise. 
Looks funny to see a lamb following a dog around like it is his mom.

I got 3 hours of sleep to now!!! Feeling a little better. Just really sore though. Ouch.


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## Fowler (Jul 8, 2008)

I too am sorry for your expereince, I am 44 and a bigger girl 5'7...and I race quads in my spare time to keep (in semi shape).But I have to confess I'm feeling the joint pains...LOL My husband is always out of town working and I have to deal with lambing, feeding, cleaning stalls etc all by myself. He always seems to come home when everything is running smoothly. And never sees my struggles and thinks all is good at the farm....LOL...if he only knew...LOL 
I am glad your ewe took one of her babies...and you dont have to eat her for now 
It's easy sometimes to say what I would do. But I never really know the other persons situation..so forgive me if I stepped over the line or offended...I only have my experences to offer without knowing others situations.


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