# Pole Barn House



## jdvickous

I apologize in advance if this topic has been beat to death. What about building a 30X30 pole barn with trusses that allow you to create a second story? My thoughts are you have it built, pour a concrete floor with the plumbing in it and then finish the interior myself. What are the negatives/positives? Has anyone did this that doesn't mind sharing their experience (troubles, costs, pictures) with me? 

3 of many questions are: 
1. When insulating walls, do you place bat insulation right up against the metal siding?
2. What about the condensation dripping from the underside of the metal roof? 
3. How do you frame in the ceilings utilizing the barn trusses?

I have big dreams of doing this on our land. Would love some pictures/stories...


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## jwal10

Why pole barn, stud it up on top of the concrete slab. Much easier all around for living space than retrofiting. Doesn't cost more in the end. Trussed rafters ready to sheet, much easier to go second story, need interior walls anyway. Much easier as the components are lighter. 24' width is more manageable, just build a little longer. Pole barns seem cheap until you start to modify....James


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## jdvickous

Thanks for the quik informative paragraph


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## lamoncha lover

we are doing a 1 story 30X64 pole barn house. so far it is going very well. we had radiant in floor heat tubing installed in the floor. have also put in a wood stove that can heat 2200 sq feet. Just got done with all the electrical and passed the final inspection. have the interior wall framing all up, just need to sheet rock or put up the paneling. will be putting in a few inches of foam insulation then adding the fiberglass pink stuff for 6 " of insulation.
I think our ceilings will be luan(SP) someone on here posted a picture of how they did their ceilings actually pencilling wood lines on it and it looked great.
we are on the home stretch now.and so far am happy we went this way.We were able to get the 1900+ sq foot building with a 10X64 covered porch done for about 30,000..including nice windows and doors. We have bought most of our stuff at restore inclucing patio doors and fancy front doors and nice windows. I will be acid etching the floors..which is a very nice cost effective way to do floors. can do all the floors for under 1,000$.
once the shell was up we have just been adding as we can afford. I have been very happy with it all so far. good luck!


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## tnokie

I have been wondering the same thing. My wife and I were looking at ads in a farm magazine this past weekend with those metal barns and or garages. They have 30x40x10 with a slab for around $7000. It sure looks like it would be easy to finish one out into a home. I'm sure it would be a lot of work and take some skill and knowledge of building but still it "looks" feasible and inexpensive or at least less expensive espeacilly if you did it a little at time.


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## RonM

Be sure and use paneling or something to cover the treated lumber so you wont be exposed to it,,,,,,,thought about this idea myself for a camp.......


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## lamoncha lover

having trouble with photo bucket....but her's a few


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## lamoncha lover




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## TnAndy

jwal10 said:


> Why pole barn, stud it up on top of the concrete slab. Much easier all around for living space than retrofiting. Doesn't cost more in the end. Trussed rafters ready to sheet, much easier to go second story, need interior walls anyway. Much easier as the components are lighter. 24' width is more manageable, just build a little longer. P*ole barns seem cheap until you start to modify*....James



I agree.....if anything, it costs less to use regular stud framing.

Pole barns are designed to be used AS a barn.....with unfinished interior for the most part....and they work great for that.

By the time you put in the poles ( or posts ), then band the outside with 2x somethings, then come back inside and run vertical studs to have something to put a finish wall on, you've spent WAY more than regular stud construction would have cost. You've built TWO walls to get to the same point.


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## lamoncha lover

My pole barn will be designed to LIVE in:>)
I have spoken to quite a few that have been very happy with their choice. When I was figuring costs I went and looked at comparable double wides. More money,. half the quality, and really not what I wanted. Plus we were able to do the wiring and finish plumbing ourselves.
By building the way we have we have been able to pay as you go. To me that has been a hugely important thing. We have also been able to stay in the building for extended periods of time even though it was just a shell.
i don't know why so many speak up against this. I havent seen the negatives at all.


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## TnAndy

Hey....if it worked out for you, great. 

Comparing what you did to a double wide is apples versus oranges. Nobody said you didn't come out with a nice home, clearly you did

But if you had figured it against a convention stud construction, there is far more un-needed material generally in finishing a pole barn into a house....and thus, cost more....that's all I'm saying.


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## hercsmama

Silly question, but what about homeowners insurance? Any trouble getting it?


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## haypoint

Pole barns have posts 8 feet apart, stuck in the ground 4 feet. A concrete slab will "float" as the ground freezes under it. not a problem for a barn. Trouble for a house. 

Pole barns have trusses 4 feet apart. Great for 2x4 and metal sheet roofing. Insulating and hanging drywall is a problem.

For a cost effective "starter home", I'd suggest a concrete slab, a row of blocks and a 2x6 stud wall, 24 inches on center. Then buy attic trusses, that have a second story built right into them, 24 inches on center.

Sheet the walls with 1/2 OSB and sheet the roof with 1/2 CDX. 

If pole barn houses were cheap or easy, there'd be a million of them. There isn't.


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## lamoncha lover

tn andy. You are probably right. I wish I would have kept accurate records of cost. I did not at all. I do know that we have no building experience to speak of and framing interior and running electricity and such was pretty ez from a beginners standpoint. 
thank you for the compliment on our home. It has been worth the long wait for us. I am very pleased..of course if it had been a cardboard box but on our land I would still be pleased I think.
Haypoint..that sounds like a really good idea. It's something I would have considered for sure if I was still trying to figure out a cost efficient home.
as for insurance I don't know yet


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## arbutus

jdvickous said:


> ...
> 
> 1. When insulating walls, do you place bat insulation right up against the metal siding?
> 2. What about the condensation dripping from the underside of the metal roof?
> 3. How do you frame in the ceilings utilizing the barn trusses?
> 
> 
> ...


My inlaws did a pole barn roof over their "cottage" that was really closer to a tarpaper shack, then tore down the cottage and turned the pole barn roof into a nice living space.

1. Construction. 2x4 girts inside and out. Exterior was sheathed with 1/2" OSB. Open cell spray foam insulation on the inside of the exterior OSB. Drywall over the interior girts makes it real nice inside. Vinyl siding on the exterior makes it look like a nice cottage, not a garage.

2. Roof decking was OSB over cathedral type trusses, 24" OC. Again, open cell spray foam insulation. Roof was asphalt shingles, but could have been steel with an appropriate underlayment. Insulation again was open cell spray foam.

3. 24" OC cathedral trusses work fine for putting drywall on. The house layout made a storage loft upstairs work out ok. The loft is actually used for storage, but could be used for sleeping on occasion.

The floor is a slab that was tiled, with a raised floor (2x6 or 2x8, I don't remember which) in the bathroom to run the plumbing in, and one shared plumbing wall with the kitchen. We winterize the place by hooking up an air compressor and blowing the lines to each fixture out.

It generally stays very cool and pleasant in the summer, with the insulation and slab. Can get humid though so there is usually a dehumidifier going.


It was easy to build and work on.


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## wharton

haypoint said:


> Pole barns have posts 8 feet apart, stuck in the ground 4 feet. A concrete slab will "float" as the ground freezes under it. not a problem for a barn. Trouble for a house.
> 
> Pole barns have trusses 4 feet apart. Great for 2x4 and metal sheet roofing. Insulating and hanging drywall is a problem.
> 
> For a cost effective "starter home", I'd suggest a concrete slab, a row of blocks and a 2x6 stud wall, 24 inches on center. Then buy attic trusses, that have a second story built right into them, 24 inches on center.
> 
> Sheet the walls with 1/2 OSB and sheet the roof with 1/2 CDX.
> 
> If pole barn houses were cheap or easy, there'd be a million of them. There isn't.


As a homebuilder, I generally agree. I just "reframed" the exterior walls of a friend's pole barn, and it struck me as a waste of time and material, compared to having started with a standard stud wall. 

As for the specifics of your advice, based on experience, I would do things a bit different. I have had extreme issues with OSB wall sheathing buckling, when used 24" O.C. This was on sheets that were properly nailed and spaced. Now I'm back to everything on 16" centers, the "savings" of spacing studs out just aren't there. I have used attic trusses and found that they are both expensive, and unacceptably bouncy, when used for anything other than attic storage. I would stick frame the second floor and use standard roof trusses on 24" centers. Last, 1/2" CDX on 24" roof trusses can either be a quality job, and expensive, if using decent fir plywood, or a cheap disaster if done with yellow pine plywood. My first choice is Huber brand "Zip system" roof sheathing, second choice is 5/8" OSB. 

Another point to consider is that many pole barn houses are built in areas where there are no codes and enforcement. This is both good and bad. Adding stud walls to the interior of a pole barn wall can result in a real life safety issue if you don't follow reasonable standards for fire blocking. Balloon framed walls, unintentional hidden "chinmeys" and other extreme fire hazards can burn a structure down in a few minutes, trapping occupants inside. These are problems that haven't been seen in many decades in well regulated constuction, yet they are hardly mentioned here on the construction forum. It's important to understand that residential interiors need fire rated wall, floor and ceilings to control the spread of fire, and give you and your family time to get out. Modern codes dictate 1/2" sheetrock or 3/4" thick wood boards or panels on walls and ceilings. I often see comments about how nice and cheap it is to do things like use painted 7/16th OSB instead of sheetrock, or luan, or thin paneling over foam panels, etc...... It may be a great cost saver, and never be an issue. It may be the reason why an accidental fire becomes a structure fire that burned nearly to the ground before the first fire truck rolledup, and involved fatalities.

I know a lot of us have no interest in folllowing rules, and I am no exception. I absolutely despise the code regime that currently controls the area where I work. However, the fact is that inexpensive construction, following current "rules" can save your life. Current townhouse constuction is a good example. A lot of newer townhouses are just pure scrap. The construction involves cutting every possible corner to make a buck, then stuffing all the "hot buttons" into the unit, so it sells. Basically a house that falls apart in a few decades, but has really sharp trim, stainless steel appliances etc... and looks impressive. The interesting part is what happens when a unit accidentially burns to the ground. Due to proper design and construction, it's common for a middle row unit to burn clear to the slab, while the adjoining units sustain little, to no damage. This was a result of a lot of sheetrock used as a fire barrier, and proper attention to detailing. 
OTOH, I work in an area with thousands of older vacation homes. A home from the 70s typically has thin wood panelling, and a zero clearance wood burning fireplace that should of been replaced a decade ago, and is installed in a poorly built, bone dry, wooden chimney chase. The house typically has old dry, T-1-11 plywood siding on the exterior. Several times a year, a fireplace will fail, the chimney starts to ignite, and the place is usually well on it's way to burning to the ground before the first truck arrives. 
As a DIY homebuilder, it's all in your hands. it doesn't take much effort or cost to make your home dramatically safer and to limit damage and loss of life from a fire.


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## kudzuvine

when my parents built their's, they framed the inside about 8-10" from outside wall, leaving room between outside and inside wall for lots of insulation. Also, if outside is damaged by wind, shifting, or whatever, the interior is less likely to be damaged. Pretty much sound proof and very low utility bills.


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## dablack

I didn't read all the responces but I will tell you what we are doing. I ran all the numbers (I'm a spead sheet kinda guy) and the most expensive part of a building is the roof and foundation. Lumber is CHEAP. So, 26x52 slab, 32' long attic trusses giving me a 4.5' deep porch on front with a 1.5' over hang on the back. 19' wide room upstairs. I'm putting the three bedrooms and two bathrooms upstairs. Downstairs is kitchen along the long back wall and then the rest is living / dining / mudroom. EASY! No pipes in the slab. I'm going to have the pipes kick out of the wall. In texas I can get away with that. There is no way I can build that much living space any cheaper. 

Later when we build the main house, this building will be an attached garage. The upstairs will be kept bedrooms but the downstairs will be a four car garage. 

Anyone can build a wall. Setting the trusses by myself was TOUGH but I got it done. We are almost dried in and I should be starting plumbing at new years. 

Austin


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## ericjeeper

http://www.pbase.com/ericjeeper/pole_barn_house


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## mosepijo

We started with a 30x60 pole building. And a 30x24 loft. Added deck later. Inside is done with pine tongue & groove. Mostly open floor plan. One bedroom, one bath. pantry. Composting toilet, wood cook stove... will be off grid. We haven't finished the kitchen or bath yet.
I had a couple of pictures but can't figure out how to do them..


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## mosepijo




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## mosepijo




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## jdvickous

Love all the replys and pictures. Can anyone get in the details of framing and insulation? How you did it, etc.. Anyone have a finished price per SQFT?


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## jcatblum

We are in the planning stage, hope to break ground in 6 months. Had several quotes & they are all over the place. One reputable company is pricing the basics at
30x80 building
1 bathroom plumbed (any more must hire plumber or DIY)
4 inch concrete
1 walk in door ($352 off if we leave door out)
1 garage door ($850 off price if we leave door out)
Total price is $27,000
extras
windows & additional doors installed for $100 each- we provide the product
overhangs & porches $7.50 a sq ft

BIL has prepped the ground for several commercial buildings in town so he will hpefully do our ground work, our spot is pretty level already-- so hope to not bring dirt in.
We are not having a garage door & providing our own windows & doors. IMO $100 is a bargin for them to install the windows & they stated since we were doing a large number of windows we could work on a better price (not sure how much of a discount yet). Still undecided on the porches. We know we want large porches, but I think the money is best spent inside & have porches done later. Right now my preference is to by the extra metal & us DIY the porches later. 
I am still gathering estimates & figures for the finishes. We will splurge on some stuff but not others. I would love to have the build to be under $100k, and I think it is possible...... just depends how fast we want the house finished. Sometimes money goes further than muscle.


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## goodhors

Well for those building homes in pole barn structures, it is not a new thing! 
Morton Buildings have been building homes like that for quite a while, with very 
attractive products to give you ideas for your homes. 

http://www.mortonbuildings.com/home-landing-page.aspx

The pole-homes are very nice, well finished, with any kind of options your heart 
desires! They may have metal walls, but are "real homes" in every sense of the 
word. You can build them to be "high end" or not so fancy, to suit your wishes.

The Morton Building site give all good reasons to choose such a style, and do create
an excellent product. Choosing Morton as your builder means you get a warrentied 
product, with skilled craftspeople who are familiar with building such structures. The
metal is warrantied for 30 years I believe, and they DO come back to fix problems if 
they happen. Whether you are the original owner or not, the building gets repaired.
The company is pretty good about scheduling and getting the building done on time
or early in many cases. You are not "on hold" for months which can happen with other
contractors. They use their own steel and products to put up their structures. With 
so much work, they have got all the bugs worked out to make happy customers.

I have heard very few complaints about Morton buildings that people own, with 
almost everyone happy with the whole process of getting a building from them, 
regardless of if it was a home, barn, or other use structure.

Of course such excellence comes with the higher price! Sure would be the way I 
would order a house or barn if I had the money. I have seen some REALLY cute ones, handsome homes, and they sure didn't "feel" like a barn at all. No echos, warm or 
cool in the weather as you wished it.


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## lamoncha lover

other then septic and such I am certain we have under 40k in ours right now.


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## Bob Huntress

Whorton, my guess is that you are one smart carpenter. I've read your stuff on this thread, as well as another on the topic of plaster and insulation, and you sound like you really have a handle on things. I would like to think that had I stayed in construction instead of getting into more steady types of work, that is where I would be in construction smarts. I still do jobs, on the side, yet, it isn't my main stay.

I've done two of the type of constructions being discussed here and each time it was built as a shop with a home attached. The one north of Buffalo was a large shop and the living area was huge. All the structure is the uprights and the roof with every wall being only semi weight bearing. The upright member and connecting top beam bearing weight, yet if a tractor should drive thru a wall, as long as it did not damage the uprights, only cosmetic repairs are needed. The first one used metal studs. The studs were very thin and had the drywall not been screwed to these studs there would have been no rigidity whatsoever. While the living areas on each of these ran much more than standard stick construction, there were still industrial like features that were unavoidable. The windows were attaches from the outside, and drywall went around the return on the inside wall, instead of trim. The door between the living area and the shp was obviously fire rated on each. One had the carpet tiles, and one had the traditional carpet. One was so nice, I could never afford to live in. I don't know if your desire is to simple have a home/shop, but that is the only reason I've seen for having a home built to a shop or barn's spec. Oh yeah, I have renovated a few mills or factories etc into homes or apartments. One I did the drywall in in Exeter, New Hampshire was some very upscale condo's. May I ask why it is that you are seeking to build a home to the design of a shop?

Lamancha Lover, may I ask where in Tennessee you are? If you want a hand let me know, especially the drywall.


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## lamoncha lover

hi Bob. We are about an hour n of nashville. I think I have the dry wall covered but thank you. My daughters bf has volunteered to do what I want for free. Can't beat that deal. I am only dry walling the main area, bedrooms and such will be paneled.
We may end up hiring someone to do the plumbing venting. Pretty much the rest we will have to handle.


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## Bob Huntress

An hour north of Nashville would be northern Bowling Green. My brother use to teach in Portland, TN. I'm closer to Jackson. I was just refering to helping you guys. You do raise lamancha goats? They are some nice goats.


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## lamoncha lover

I am 20 minutes from PortlAND. small world.
I did raise lamancha goats. Had to sell them.A guy from here took them on payments and never paid. Not all ht'ers are as kind as your offer.thank you


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## Bob Huntress

I may actually be moving up your way. I use to be a drywaller back in the day. I did a lot of renovations for the USCG. After 9/11 they had a bunch of construction needs, and those of us with construction backgrounds found ourselves doing it for the Coast Guard. Today I mostly maintain and repair refrigeration. I am trying to start work for a company in Cool Springs (I thing that is the actual name of the town). If you live in them parts we may be neighbors coming soon.


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## lamoncha lover

we are about halfway between BG kentucky and Nashville TN. I like the area. So much nicer weather then where we came from ..MN. our homestead place has been a work in progress for 5 years. We are getting closer and closer to actually getting there. Jobs have been hard last few years...so haven't been able to make progress like we had planned for. 
cool springs is south of nashville isnt it? if you get here welcome to the neighborhood!


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## Marcintosh

Ever consider manufactured housing? It's quickly installed, the wood is dry and stays dry, it's cost effective compared to stick built and, if you're the General, you get to pocket the savings. Those savings can be anywhere from 10-40%- usually around 25% though.
It's also pretty green compared to other methods. 
You can watch your home being built as many of the manufacturers have a gallery for the home owner to watch from.
The one's I've seen are more than nice they're quite elegant. You can set the trim levels and amenities to control the price. "I want a house that's X sqft and I'd like it at around $Xk's more or less". IOW's you don't have to take what they're offering, you can customize your home to your hearts content. It also pays to shop around too.
Also, have you considered buying a house and MOVING a house to your lot?
More than one way to skin a cat.


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## LadyHawk77

We built a 100x40 steel framed metal building. 30x40 is finished with an upstairs. The steel framed type building gives you way more space for putting in a second floor. We lived on the main floor for 10 years before we finished the second floor. Yes, our plumbing, as well as the radiant floor is in the slab. We have the second floor plumbing running down the inside of the South wall to join the main floor plumbing. All bathrooms and kitchen are on the South side to make plumbing simple.
We love our place. It is very well insulated. We have been here 13 years with no problems. We hardly heat or cool with fossil fuel. If I could do it again I would not have the house part connected to my husband's shop. He is loud 
The inside picture is not current. We have since cut in an open loft to the upstairs (helps with heating). We have 2 beds, 1 full bath and a kids play area up there.
Any questions, feel free to ask!


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## LadyHawk77

jdvickous said:


> 3 of many questions are:
> 1. When insulating walls, do you place bat insulation right up against the metal siding?
> 2. What about the condensation dripping from the underside of the metal roof?
> 3. How do you frame in the ceilings utilizing the barn trusses?
> 
> I have big dreams of doing this on our land. Would love some pictures/stories...


I know a couple that bought an existing pole bard and finished it. Not sure how they insulated the roof sheets. The simply hung drywall on the bottom of the trusses. Yep, it all came down from the condensation. Major mess!


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## studioonmain

Haypoint (or any of the others that say to go stick built) I am interested in this. . . If I happen to already have a pole barn, am I further ahead to tear it down and start with a stick built home or should I go the conversion route?


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