# What are thoughts on "pellet" air guns?



## motdaugrnds (Jul 3, 2002)

I'm contemplating the purchase of a Gammo Whisper pellet gun (either 22 or 177 caliber). I want it for killing small animals because it is noted for being rather quiet and not disturbing to neighbors. 

I have no experience with them at all. Does anyone have experience in uwing them for:

rabbits
squirrel
*****
foxes
possoms
guineas


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## poppy (Feb 21, 2008)

Might be pushing it a bit on the fox, ****, and possum but they shoot pretty hard. But, I shot a possum in the head 3 times with a 22 rifle and it just made him mad. He would have eventually died I'm sure but I ended up clubbing him to death. I know a guy who has one and he had to get the seals replaced once, so I don't know how long they typically last.


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## king-01 (Jan 23, 2014)

I'd go with the highest FPS scoped .22 I could find at a reasonable price. Most are fine for small stuff, like squirrels and rabbits, but really need the ft-lbs of energy for proper penetration on bigger animals. Headshots are preferable.


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## bluetogreens (May 31, 2010)

Gamo whisper dropped a young wild boar from about 20 yards, it can be done  ( i think it was staged, but I believe the kill shot is real)

I like the high end air guns, but at the end of the day, a bolt 22 loaded with the no powder shells is just as quiet, more lethal/humane at equal ranges etc. 

Now to teach, train, shoot indoors to a small trap etc. they are great, and it is definitely a "skill set" that is handy to have with a weapon that is handy to have. try to find one of the Gamo's of BM's etc. on midway refurbished etc. great reviews and I trust midway to not sell a crappy refurb, if they had a high rate of returns on their refurbs or complaints they would stop selling them.


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## GREENCOUNTYPETE (Jul 25, 2006)

go 22 cal you need weight to get penetration and you need penetration to get vitals 

the 22 cal pellet is still 1/2 the weight of a 22lr 

it is about , shot placement , shot placement , shot placement , if your penetration isn't measured in inches 4 or more then you need to hit very specific spots especially on bigger animals like racoons 

head shots on rabbit and squirrel are one thing but on bigger things like **** they will take a 22 short to the head from a few feet and walk away I know a pellet gun can do it but shot placement is going to have to be very good and it may still take time


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## palm farmer (Jan 3, 2014)

I don't know what kind of possums you have but ours down here can soak up some lead. If you want quiet these will do the trick, run some 147 grain subsonics )


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## motdaugrnds (Jul 3, 2002)

Appreciate the information. Thanks everyone.


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## Roadking (Oct 8, 2009)

We have Crosman furys (rifles at 1200 fps) and Benjamin Trail NP (pistols pushing 700 fps). Have taken ground hogs with the rifles no problem...just like any weapon, shot placement is key. Have only used the pistol for getting the boys ready for .22, but wouldn't second guess using it for squirrels and small stuff.

Matt


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## Shrek (May 1, 2002)

I still have my 1970s era Crosman 760 smooth bore .177 caliber BB and pellet rifle that achieves about 700 fps with maximum pumps that is fairly accurate at 10 yards or so and my .22 caliber Benjamin rifled barrel pellet gun that as I recall can achieve a muzzle velocity around 950 to 1000 fps with maximum pumps and is accurate to about 30 yards.

Both make for nice single shot (due to the pumping time) repeater feed weapons.

I have used both for plinking at targets, vermin, rabbit, squirrel and when I was young and not in fear of being caught shooting perched dove, a few messes of dove breasts once in awhile.

I clean and blue both of my air rifles as needed just as I do my firearms and keep a couple of 1 cup milk carton boxes of BBs and a few tins of pellets for the Crosman and some tins of pellets for the Benjie in my ammo stores and the air rifles are racked in my gun safe with my other weapons.

The only difference in care compared to my firearms is that I have rebuilt the air cylinders on the air rifles when the gaskets needed replacing.

A bit of trivia I found about air rifles a few years back was that the first feasible air rifle was produced in the 1500s or 1600s.


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## Badger (Jun 11, 2010)

I don't have an air rifle - I use a HR sportster single shot with subsonic ammo. I have shot side by side with .22 air rifles and it is much quieter and hits harder especially with Aquilla SSS ammo. It was about the same price as an air rifle but is much more versital because you can use any regular .22 ammo in it as well. I just use it for subsonics because of the sighting but it is very accurate.


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## arcticow (Oct 8, 2006)

But how hard is it to find the ammo? Are we talking about CB caps or ??


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## 1shotwade (Jul 9, 2013)

After researching adult air guns for months,reading everything I could find I settled on the rws diana 34 in .177.13.1 fpe @ muzzle 864 fps and holding over 6fpe @65 yards with 7.9s.I haven't shot it out that far yet but think it'll hold a 1" moa @ 65.For sure a small game getter under 50 yards.


Wade


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## Ozarks Tom (May 27, 2011)

I've got the Gammo Whisper Cat, and very pleased with it. You just hear the spring. It buries a .22 pellet to the skirt in 1/2" plywood @40' Cocking lever is a little too much for the wife, but overall a good special purpose gun.


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## motdaugrnds (Jul 3, 2002)

I'm reading up on all the guns mentioned in this thread in an attempt to find something "easy" to handle as my strengh is not what it use to be, i.e. I need something with a trigger easy to pull and one that won't put a bruise on my shoulder or explode in my eye.

I want one with a good working site on it that will kill the smaller type game, i.e. rabbits, squirrels, possoms & *****. I know the size of shot will make a difference; so I'm looking at that as well.


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## sherry in Maine (Nov 22, 2007)

hi, I dont remember the kind of pellet gun I bought to kill rabbits.
It didn't work.
Not enough pressure.
Ended up killing them with a broomstick. It made me feel awful that - even though I put the pellets where it was supposed to be a quick, easy death, it rarely happened.
Just my experience.


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## 1shotwade (Jul 9, 2013)

All the powder burners are going to be more powerful than the air guns so it's all in what you want. I began 1 1/2 years ago looking at adult air guns because after playing around with powder guns for so many years it's just getting too hard to do it over the web and with the constant pressure from government regs. etc. On top of that, my area has grown in population to the point I really have to stop and think where I am in relationship to the neighbors before I can pull the trigger on a squirrel.
With the air guns you don't have to worry whats out there 1/2 mile,it's a lot quieter if you stay sub-sonic so it keeps me more "invisible" from people and game , anything over 50 yards is not a shot I would take on a squirrel and it's got the FPE to kill a squirrel out to 65 yards. The ATF does not have jurisdiction over air guns and the ammo is cheap and available,at least for now.
I chose the rws Diana because of the hundreds of good reviews and the 30 year track record of the model 34, It is considered the mainstay entry level adult air gun, and parts and service is available everywhere.After looking at and talking about and handling many gamo,crosman,benjies etc I kept coming back to the Diana. It's like a "real"gun and some of the others seem like "souped up bb guns" to me at least.
Do your research and find something that is right for you.Most of all,do something and go enjoy it!


Wade


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## GREENCOUNTYPETE (Jul 25, 2006)

I would very much like to see your pellet guns on 20 pound **** at 25 yards even 15 yards 

I dare you to make a beliver out of me , cause I stopped using the CBees on **** i could go snap a body grip trap over it's head in less time than all the flopping around they did with a cb the ear ,neck or side 

now rabbits i had some success with with a pellet gun at very short distances 10 yards or less if I shot them in the ear they would do a back flip and be dead right there , getting within 10 yards of a rabbit was a bit more difficult 

I have no idea how your getting wood chuck , all of them i shoot are at 50 yards or more and i have to hit them in the head or they will be back to their holes before they die

opossum, my only luck with them an a pellet gun was in a live trap i shot it in the back of the head the soft spot at the base of the skull and it did die but took time this was with a 7.9 gr pointed pellet in a gun that claimed 900fps at a distance of a few inches 

I know the .177 guns that go 1200-1300 fps hit with more authority than 900fps but that is an expensive gun much more expensive than a cheap 22lr 

5mm guns like the Benjamin 392 do a better job with the heavier pellet 14-15 gr pellets 

for anchoring small animals very quietly i turned to my compound bow with zwicky judo points If i was going to have to be quiet and going to have to get up to 25 yards any way the bow and judo point planted them
I shot my first few with field points (always on the ground) even had a rabit run off with an arrow when i was about 11 now that's not cheap but with the judo point it would grab them as it passed through and anchor them an not stuck to the ground anchor but dead in seconds not minutes with less than a few feet traveled in squirrel it almost always broke the back , it may have on rabbit also it has been some years since i shot any this way 

the hooks on the judo points meant they didn't bury themselves under the grass like field points often do the fletchings were usually still easily visible 

you don't need a power house bow to shoot small game actualy a lighter draw like 35-40 pounds would probably be better , by 13 i was drawing 70 pounds I don't shoot near as much as i used to so i would probably use my sons bow now I shoot his even with the much shorter draw length and 35 pound pull very well , I do it farly often when he complains the sights are off , he will shoot 3 perfect then have 2 fliers i can tell him what is wrong that he didn't anchor his release hand or didn't follow through but at that age they want to think it is the sights or i should say he used to he had gotten better with youth league 

any way i see for about what an entry level air rifle that will leave you underwhelmed you can get a cossbow several with decent reviews can be had for under a hundred dollars I would be interested in trying a crossbow over a pellet gun 

but i challenge you to make me a believer in a pellet gun It should cost less than 160 dollars and put down a **** at 25 yards in under a minute 


that said i think air rifles are a great marksmanship tool , the daisy 853 is an excellent choice in teaching marksman ship , we use them in our air rifle program where it really is a per shot cost savings that adds up 

I like to do indoor practice with the air rifle , but i was just looking even the price of pellets has jumped I last bought 1250 pellets 2 years ago at 13 dollars and now they are almost 19 


if you want to shoot on the cheap and maybe take a squirrel in a tree at 30-50 feet pellet guns are a fair choice 

but if you can shoot legal , most city laws consider a pellet rifle the same as a powder burning gun , then a 147 dollar savage MKII-f from wallys with appropriate ammo will do you much better when it comes to opossum , armadillo , raccoon , woodchuck , dispatch of animals for butchering , or even a coyote or wild dog in close , yes it will make noise , there are some vey low nice ammo's like Remingtion CB that when fired from a bolt action will not be very much louder that many pellet guns 

and you can buy the ammo and gun and be quite sure it will still be working in 20 years , as their are no seals to dry out 

yes currently ammo is harder to find but , my brother found some last week at gander , it was 8-10 cents a round double the price it used to be 

like i said if you want hours of practice the air rifle makes sense , if you want a dead critter , spend the dime and make it dead


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## 1shotwade (Jul 9, 2013)

Nice post there Pete ! Hope I didn't hit a nerve>It wasn't intended. My post was an explanation of why I decided to go with an air gun and I was talking about squirrel,so anyway,ya I pretty much agree with your post. If I feel the need to power up I've go a gun locker full from shooting 22cb's whith I do on through my 35 rem , 30-30, or 308.I wasn't advocating going big game hunting with a pellet gun.I'm very well aware of there limitations and thought I had made that clear but evidently not clear enough so if I ticked you off it wasn't intentional.


Wade


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## GREENCOUNTYPETE (Jul 25, 2006)

not really a nerve, i am not upset sorry if i came off that way , but I hear how economical small game hunting is with a air gun , but as my grandpa would have said , "whats the real cost" this would be where he would grab a napkin , the back of an envelope and he would figure just about every possible cost in and amortize it out over life expectancy maintenance and use.

if squirrel hunting is your game and a pellet rifle gets you access and enjoyment , go for it , hobbies really don't need to be justified it is about enjoyment and it is still cheaper than drinking in a bar. if that was the case no one could ever justify a boat for fishing but my dad catches 500 dollar salmon all the time it is what he likes to do.

but now if you happen to have a squirrel messing up your bird feeders and such in the back yard i recommend a live trap they work while you are , just reduce the feed you put out and put thier favorite feed in the trap suet is a favorite around here , left over bacon grease and bird seed makes a nice bait as do peanuts or on the free side of things when your out for a walk in the fall pick up a bucket of black walnuts snap a lid on that bucket , you may want a metal can I had squirrel going into my garage to steal my black walnuts this fall then they would shuck them on my saw horse , any way they can't seem to resist a black walnut not only where they in my garage but they were in a bucket and had been boiled already they ate the green ones first then the boiled , just bait your traps with them when you have caught it take it in the garage and fire up the air compressor for a little cover noise then let them have cbee or short , or well if you use a high velocity it would be best to have a sand bag or 2 under the trap . this is where even a cheap 177 call pellet gun works your only shooting a few inches , if you prefer a quieter method a tub of water works fast but i hate cleaning wet squirrel another option is a 160 body grip trap they sell for 7-10 dollars , if you build a box to hold the trap from a bit of scrap wood that fits right up to the live trap you can place the box with a set 160 then open the live trap with a string when whatever is in the trap runs out over the trigger of the 160 snap and not only do you have a dead squirrel no blood and it is dry and easy to clean for dinner.

a 22 rifle is such a versatile tool for the cost , i have bought them use for as little as 70 dollars , new several start at 110 dollars and i would not discount the chipmunk rifle for 109 dollars they actually cut their chamber tighter than many match chambers they are simple , light and grown men shoot them with surprising accuracy for a tiny package but not a great fit for taller users the savage is a heck of a gun for the price and it is a repeater so you don't have to fumble with small shells for the next shot.


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## 1shotwade (Jul 9, 2013)

Ya, the 22's are here to stay as long as the ammo is.They are very versatile and under appreciated for what they are.I just sat down and counted up 23 22lr and 2 22mag in my gun locker if you consider 15 of them are savage/stevens combo guns so yes I'm a big fan. Oops! I forgot my 2 22lr pistols too. Anywho,wish they'd leave us along and stay in their own world and let us be who we are! They will never understand gun people because they don't want to understand us. They are too busy understanding all their little politically correct groups that take priority. Save the trees,don't be cruel to animals,respect all races,and women,and gays, and go ahead and get an abortion, just stay miles away from those gun nuts and smokers! Well,at least they are now pretending to respect our military! Go figure!

Wade


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## Roadking (Oct 8, 2009)

Just an aside GCP, I am a big fan of .22. I have several and it is practically my favorite power round.
That said, the Crosman Furys that we bpught the boys push 1200 fps and cost $89 with a pretty decent scope. A price that is hard to beat. 250 pointed lead pellets are $3, replacement rings (always buy when purchasing the gun) were $0.75, alloy pellets are $7.50 for 250.
They penetrate 4 sheets of 3/8 drywall and lodge in the 5th sheet, so penetration is not an issue, at least on the ones we own.
Haven't seen a ground hog for about two years, and it was dispatched with a .22lr from a Ruger 10/22, ear. It went about 7 feet before it realized it was dead. I'd have no qualms using a Fury on the next one. I would NOT be comfortable with the pellet pistol 'tho...Not seeing it capable of a clean kill on more than a squirrel.
To each their own, I can respect that.
And yes, they are great for marksmanship and practice on the very cheap and without disturbing the neighbors.

Matt


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## GREENCOUNTYPETE (Jul 25, 2006)

part of my aversion to shooting a racoons with a pellet rifle comes from shooting racoons between the eyes with shorts from a 22 revolver with 6 inch barrel from 4 feet away, just to have them come back to life 20 minutes later, I haven't had this problems with the bulk hi-veocity 36 gr hollow points Winchester 555 is what i am using right now sure i get 2 holes , but do you know how inconvenient it is to have a **** come back to life


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## Roadking (Oct 8, 2009)

I understand where you are coming from, and can respect it.
Sadly, I haven't had a decent moving target for some time...the 'yotes seem to keep everything at bay.
As for the cross bow mentioned above; I have used a Barnet Trident pistol style cross bow with much success at 15 yards...in one side, out the other. Clean and fast kill.

Matt


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## jeeper55 (Feb 24, 2008)

I have a very old savage model 5 22. . shooting 22 cb caps all you hear is the trigger click. Its a fairly heavy barrel, never heard a pellet rifle as quite . the cb caps are nowhere near as quite in my newer rifles.


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## GREENCOUNTYPETE (Jul 25, 2006)

I never gave crossbows much of a look because we could not use them here but this last year they changed the law. 

Roadking ,now you need to get rid of some of those yotes 

i would like to see if anyone has something they shot with a pellet gun that they can show how much penetration they are getting with a home autopsy pics would be great


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## Roadking (Oct 8, 2009)

Sadly Pete, if I kill it, I dump it. The very reason I won't hunt; If I can't do all stages, I don't deserve to (i.e. deer, turkey, food type etc.) Varmints are disposable to me; ground hogs, yotes, etc. Even squirrels...look like skinned rats and not that appealing to me despite wife's grand pa's regaling memories of squirrel pot pie, PA dutch style.
I can fillet a 400 pound tuna and toss it back in the water while it swims away while I'm eating the cheeks, but I can't handle mammals...my dad was showing me at the age of 7 or 8 on a deer and he hooked the sack...I love venison, but I cannot process it myself. Luckily, I have several folks that drop me off all that I could want each year.

Matt

PS, the yotes stay in the tree line about 50 yards from my grill. I grill with a 9mm, flashlight and tongs...they never come close enough for a clean shot, but if they do, I'll get a pic. Wouldn't use a pellet for them unless that's all I had at the time on me.


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## GREENCOUNTYPETE (Jul 25, 2006)

some people are just like that with animals or fish , my grandmother had to cut the heads of the smoked chubs cause my grandfather didn't like them looking at him , she was the daughter of a commercial fisherman they didn't bother her at all.

I got hooked early I think was probably about 8 the neighbor boy behind us was a year older I had a red re-curve bow and he had a red Ryder , the neighbor to the south showed us a few things and we went around seeking to get any small animal we could oh the days when 8-10 year old boys could run around 2 blocks from a public grade school with bow and arrow, and bb gun ridding the neighbor hood of small critters 
he showed us how to clean our first squirrel I did that with my cub scout pocket knife.
if only we had known about traps and snares back then.

around 11 i got a compound bow I remember saving up to go buy a sight for my bow , they were absolutely crude compared to the ones they have now a piece of stamped metal with slots and little brass screws with nuts but it got groups down to minute of squirrel at 10-15 yards , later when i learned about a peep in the string and got my groups down more, i assembled and repaired my own arrows 
at 13 i traded up to a larger bow 55-70 pounds of draw I was shooting 50-100 arrows a night and quickly worked up to 70 pounds of draw.

then no small animals were safe , i would cook them for lunch , not even sure if my parents had any idea how many i had shot while they were away at work.


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## Shrek (May 1, 2002)

Pete,

As you said, air rifles have use and some positive aspects but the quiet quality sure isn't one of them. Both of my old air rifles crack almost as loud as a 22 when adequately pumped .

If I feel a need for quiet varmit popping I find my flea market bought crossbow pistol and 6 inch bolts at 7 to 10 yards plenty quiet to keep from waking the neighbors as I rat kill around the yard in the middle of the night and the bow pistol is quieter on the cock than an air rifle and the bolts are easier to retrieve as long as they don't totally bury or bust up after firing.


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## Roadking (Oct 8, 2009)

Pete, I grew up fishing the BBC (Bahama Billfish Championship) and florida tourneys (even tho I was a Pennsylvania boy, born and raised (I traveled a lot in my teen years)). 
My dad is still a big game hunter with one or two boone and crockett records. He just got back from Alaska and then Venezuela and Ark. if I recall. We both do the fishing, I just can't manage the mammal cleanouts. Weird. He never tried after the deer to get me into it. Wish he did. Our boys want to learn, so I'm looking to find them a mentor.
As for the pellet noise...the ones we have have built in silencers...now illegal in NJ...go figure. Really quite unless you forget to put a pellet in. Then they sound like a 22.

Matt


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## Esteban29304 (Apr 29, 2003)

I have taken a lot of small game with my .20 Sheridan pump. I have killed Raccoon & Opossum with it, too , but on such larger critters, a well placed headshot is more important . On a rabbit, the pellets from mine will go completely through his torso & exit. Below is a thread I started. 

http://www.homesteadingtoday.com/co...eat-outdoors/506989-pellet-rifle-hunting.html


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## GREENCOUNTYPETE (Jul 25, 2006)

I grew up fishing lake Michigan , great lakes salmon and trout , one spring semester in high school i had a study hall last hour , dad had gotten hurt at work had surgery but could never go back to that job he was back in college half of the time i was in high school, he would write me notes to get out of school early and he and that neighbor to our south that showed me how to skin rabbit and squirrel would pull up in front of the high school and i would hop in we could get a few hours fishing in before dinner.

he hunted , but not a lot just gun deer opening weekend , i like fishing but hunting was my thing , fishing was his I did a lot of fishing and he did more hunting.


your sons can learn to clean deer and other game , then you can go hunting again , field dressing is definitely not one of my dads favorite tasks , I have done all the field dressing now for years it doesn't bother me at all. with his back i have to drag his deer out any way

there are some good videos on butchering , but i am not sure on field dressing , one of these days i am going to slow down and make a field dressing video for my 4H kids as part of the wildlife conservation.


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## Roadking (Oct 8, 2009)

If you youtube, we'd watch it!

Matt


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## motdaugrnds (Jul 3, 2002)

Thank you all. There is much information that I can make good use of.

I am wanting to keep feeding costs down and, since my dogs eat "raw", I thought getting small critters would help. One of my goals was to raise rabbits for my dogs in a "colony" type set up. (Things have gone from bad to worse here; so not sure now what goals I have.) It was to hunt these smaller critters that I was considering a pellet gun because my 12 gauge Moss bruises my shoulder; and, though I'm pretty accurate with my Glock 37, it really is not that easy to hunt game with.

After reading all the responses on this thread, I'm thinking a 22 rifle might be the best way to go. If you were all buying a 22 rifle for an elderly woman who needs an easy to pull trigger, what model would you choose and why?


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## 1shotwade (Jul 9, 2013)

Well,I'm so happy to hear we had the chance to help you decide. I hope we didn't steer you wrong in any way. Only time will tell.
I think it wad pete that mentioned the "cricket". That's a really light weight gun. You can carry it all day long and not get tired. They are somewhat shorter than other 22's but if it doesn't fit you good you can always get a slip-on recoil pad to make it a little longer.They are really accurate and you have the option of using the whole array of 22's(CB caps,CB Shorts,standard shorts, longs and long rifle)
If you feel you would rather have an auto loader I thing the most popular, accurate and reliable would be the Ruger 10/22. If you decide to go to an auto loader(unless you buy an old, used one) you will give up the ammo options. Today they are all built to use the 22lr.The less powerful rounds will not cycle in them.(Ya,I know, more decisions!) There are a LOT of quality 22's out there so don't rush it! Look them over and get something that is right for you.
If we can help in any other way , you know where we are!


Wade


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## simi-steading (Sep 27, 2012)

motdaugrnds said:


> After reading all the responses on this thread, I'm thinking a 22 rifle might be the best way to go. If you were all buying a 22 rifle for an elderly woman who needs an easy to pull trigger, what model would you choose and why?


Hands down I'd say Ruger 10/22 They are very well priced for the quality and accuracy you get from them. Most aren't very picky about ammo, and if you miss, you don't have to fumble with the bolt. Just pull the trigger again. They provide years and years of worry free shooting. There's a reason it's probably the most popular 22 out there.

I had a thought about part of your post. You mentioned feeding your dogs wild critters... I know dogs will hunt and eat them on their own, but I'd feel bad if I shot something that was sick and gave it to my dogs..


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## Esteban29304 (Apr 29, 2003)

motdaugrnds said:


> Thank you all. There is much information that I can make good use of.
> 
> I am wanting to keep feeding costs down and, since my dogs eat "raw", I thought getting small critters would help. One of my goals was to raise rabbits for my dogs in a "colony" type set up. (Things have gone from bad to worse here; so not sure now what goals I have.) It was to hunt these smaller critters that I was considering a pellet gun because my 12 gauge Moss bruises my shoulder; and, though I'm pretty accurate with my Glock 37, it really is not that easy to hunt game with.
> 
> After reading all the responses on this thread, I'm thinking a 22 rifle might be the best way to go. If you were all buying a 22 rifle for an elderly woman who needs an easy to pull trigger, what model would you choose and why?


 If you have small game around, you can easily add meat to the dog & your menu with a pellet rifle. Below is a link that gives a lot of info about selecting one. About 1/2 way down , you will see " Selecting the power plant," [ what powers the pellets ] . I don't know you arm & shoulder strength, but a gas " Nitro " piston in .22 cal. may be the best. These are easier to cock than a standard spring type . Expect to pay a minimum of $125 for one, with plain sights. It would be great if you knew someone who had a couple to try.


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## motdaugrnds (Jul 3, 2002)

Thank you all for the additional information. Yes, many decisions; however, what I'm learning here helps a great deal. 

I think I'm leaning toward the Rutger 22......

There is a gun shop about half an hour drive from me; and I believe it has a range. I will call them and see if they have the 3 mentioned in here and will let me test them, i.e. the Nitro piston .22 cal air gun, the Rutger 22 as well as the Cricket.


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## wilded (May 10, 2002)

Just remember the Ruger 10/22 will not cycle CB or sub velocity rounds. You will have to work the bolt back manually. ET


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## GREENCOUNTYPETE (Jul 25, 2006)

there are several rifles worth your consideration choose the one that feels right in your hands

I like the 10/22 i have been shooting them since i was 11 years old , but they have limitations , if quiet is one of your considerations , they will not be as quiet as a bolt action they do not single feed well you have to load the round in the magazine place the magazine it the mag well and cycle the action to load a round 


if feeding shorts , CBees or shot shells is something you want to do that would point you to the bolt 

i had a problem with my 10/22 and a particular ammo that burned dirty it would fire 30-50 rounds then start having problems it would eject the old round and feed the next but fail to reset the hammer , i would take it apart and clean it all out then it would run fine again for 30-50 rounds then start again 
a change in ammo to a different brand solved the problem , i finished shooting that ammo in a bolt action 22 and you would have never known there was an issue with it 
I point this out not to steer you away from a 10/22 but to let you know of the possibilities problems are often not the gun but the ammo.

why is this , because on a bolt action you close and lock the bolt it stays closed till you open it all the gasses and combustion takes place in the barrel and pushed the bullet out the end 
in a semi auto 22 they are blow back operated , this means as the bullet is moving down the barrel with the burning gasses rapidly expanding the case is also pushing back the action ejecting the spent case then the spring pushes the action closed again picking up the next round from the magazine.
this means the case doesn't stay in the chamber till the burning gasses are finished burning and these gasses and bits of unburnt powder get into the action and into the trigger mechanism 
with an ammo that burns clean this means you need to break the gun down about every 500 rounds and clean the action out 
if it is a ammo that burns poorly i means you could need to clean it out a lot more often 

this is where a bolt is different , the bolt stays closed till well after the bullet has left the barrel the brass stays in the chamber and seals it gasses stay in the barrel and exit out the end after the bullet has left , the trigger mechanism is away from the combustion and almost never needs cleaning. unless i end up out in the rain or other bad weather about once a year i like to remove the stock an make sure all is clean and oiled

the rifle we use for our youth program is the savage MKII-FVT this is the target model of the MKII series , it has a heavy target barrel and click adjustable aperture sights 
the kids can shoot them all day we can wipe them down with an oil rag and run a oil patch and put them away again till the next shoot they are very accurate our X ring is the size of the a 22 bullet to score an X they must break the line to score the X the gun is capable of it at 25 yards , we then move out and shoot metal silhouette targets at 40 to 100 meters the 100 meter rams body is about the size of a 12 ounce beverage can laid on it's side the gun is capable of a hit every time provided the wind is steady , so misses are the user

the savage MKII-F is the base model of the line same action , but with a lighter weight barrel , but in 22lr there really isn't the barrel flex to make me think that it should be much if any less accurate and if it is it should be the difference between nickle vs dime accuracy set a dime on a nickel you will see what i mean 

the savage MKII line comes with the Savage acutrigger , it looks a little strange but it works and it is user adjustable you can take it down to a very light trigger pull but because you must move the inner part of the trigger first to release the trigger to move it keeps it safe. to the user there is almost no different in ease of use your finger automatically moves this part with a normal trigger pull.

I did mention the cricket in an earlier post , the chamber on a cricket is cut tighter than the bentz match chamber used on many high end semi auto target guns 
if it fits you and you don't mind single loading for the price it is about impossible to beat for weight or accuracy at just over 100 dollars.
it has actually while intended to be a training gun for kids become a favorite of some survivalists and hunters , it weights 2 1/2 pounds and feeds any 22 ammo , shorts , longs , Cbee , shot and long rifle be it 1 at a time.

if you like the idea of a semi auto the Marlin 795 is worth looking at , as the Apple seed guys tell me for the price of a 795 you can get the rifle , web sling , tech sights and a spare mag for about what a 10/22 runs and the target can't tell the difference 
the apple seed guys like these because they get you into possition and you can fire a string of 10 rounds without moving it speeds up learning , and they are on a one day time limit to get students shooting well

look up apple seed shoots in you area , ladies and kids shoot free as in no cost for the class , you still need to provide ammo but many apple seed instructors have loaner guns you can use for the day.

other bolt guns to take note off are the Marlin XT22 has the marlin version of the accutrigger and almost looks like a copy of the MKII but is also available in a wood stock for just a few dollars more , the nice thing about wood stocks is they are easy to cut down and fit to smaller people 

one that I would like to try is the new Ruger All American rimfire , it costs a bit more but is has 3 distinguished features, it is probably the only rimfire that is safe to dry fire , it feeds from the ruger rotary magazine the same one as the 10/22 leaving a nice flush bottom to get an Olympic style hold for off hand shooting , and has a removable stock piece to switch the comb of the stock for scope or iron sights.

by the way an Olympic hold is where your palm is flat and supports the rifle at the balance point which is usually right about where the magazine protrudes from the stock of most 22 rifles with removable magazines , this hold is used without a sling so if you have a sling you would use the hasty sling method to support your off hand shot 

I noticed that Wall-mart has a savage that looks like a MKII-F localy it is 147 dollars what i didn't notice is if it has the accutrigger , as savage does make a almost identical rifle under their budget brand name Stevens name that does not have the accutrigger then it is a question how much the accutriger is worth most factory rim fire triggers are not to bad right around 4.5 to 5 pounds and certainly very shoot able
but i point this out as trigger pull was a concern in your post , it is not uncommon for wally to order a special run of a product to offer it at a lower price or keep from having to price match another reseller. at a wally gun counter you buy the product not the service or help of the employee , they normaly have been trained in how to fill out the legal papers and not in the fit function and design of the guns. 

that said if you can afford a few dollars more to support a local gun shop their help with setup if you want a scope (helpful for older eyes including mine) , and finding you a sling , case ammo and such can be worth it.


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## GREENCOUNTYPETE (Jul 25, 2006)

correction , kids and ladies no longer shoot free at Apple seed as of 1/1/2014 but prices have been reduced


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## Badger (Jun 11, 2010)

I agree the Savage with the accutrigger may be exactly what you are looking for - I have a Ruger 10 22 and it is very accurate but only because I've done alot of work to it. It is very picky about the ammo it likes - some won't feed, some won't eject, some won't cycle the bolt. A bolt action or single shot will cycle whatever you feed it, but accuracy will vary. There are many good bolt .22s out there, but don't rule out the single shots either. I have to add that when it comes to ***** I always take the simi auto and am very thankful for it.


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## motdaugrnds (Jul 3, 2002)

Great information Pete. Thank you. I purchased my Mossberg from Wal-Mart's and my Glock 37 from a gun shop. This gun shop was so helpful; so I know when I purchase another gun, it will be from them. (I don't remember the party's name; however, one of our homesteaders actually met me at this gun shop and helped me pick out the Glock.)

Thanks Badger, I'm leaning toward the semi-auto but am not going to rule out the bolt action.....notice I'm picking up the terminology.


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## GREENCOUNTYPETE (Jul 25, 2006)

the top 2-3 semi auto guns are the 

Ruger 10/22 it does come with some of the best sights from the factory for a 22, and it has more parts and accessories than you can shake a stick at the ruger 25 round magazines are the best extended mags , and the Ruger 10 round rotary is a very good design 

I notice Ruger is now putting the extended mag release on from the factory , mine is to old for this 

the 2 and 3 are really the same gun the marlin model 60 and model 795 the 60 sports a 14 round tube magazine nice because it never gets lost and the 795 a 10 round removable but the actions is basically the same

I don't have a 795 but i had a 60 , I gave it to my little brother he would tell you that it is a gun you might as well just keep loaded and above the door when you have a wood chuck because he never could seem to get it loaded in time when he saw the wood chuck in the yard otherwise.

the 795 mags fit nice in a shirt pocket , but the ruger mags are like a cube in your pocket but high capacity mags for ruger are easy to find the 25 round ruger mags are the best quality they should be selling for 25-30 dollars 

as for ammo , well good luck finding any right now, there is a little to be had , but if you want to take critters and cycle a semi , the copper plated hollow points are the way to go specifically the Federal , and Winchester they will say they have velocities of 1260 to around 1280
CCI calls theirs mini mags 
CCI stingers were the first hyper velocity 22 ammo 1640 fps with a 32gr copper plated hollow point they brought an addtional 40 foot pounds of energy to the target at 25 yards over a 36 gr copper plated HP (hollow point) at 1260 fps 

but because of the wind resistance of going faster and the reduced weight the hyper velocity rounds retain just 1 more foot pound of energy at 100 yards than high velocity rounds that started at 1260fps

if you can get a decent high velocity round for around or under 10-12 cents each right now grab them or at least enough till things get better 


unfortunately you are about to learn first hand about the current ammo shortage in 22lr but your local dealer is probably the best place to find them 

as always it is best if you can buy a box then test it for 50 or 100 rounds if it works well buy a bunch of the same 

when you sight in a 22lr generally you sight them for 25 yards to be perfectly on target they will then be a little high less than an inch between 25 and 50 yards but come right back down to be on at 50 yards then about 2 inches low at 75 yards and 5-1/2 low at 100 yards


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## 1shotwade (Jul 9, 2013)

I've got a couple 10-22's in the gun locker.If you do go this route (which I would suggest) there's a couple other things to consider.First,in the country most people prefer the "clip" mag. over the "tube". We always got a gun with us and when you get in the truck pull the clip and lay it in the ash tray(That's why they put them in trucks LOL). You are safe and you are legal. If you need it in a hurry when you spot that coyote it's a bunch faster to load and fire. Ya' just can't do it with a tube feed system.
Secondly,wait a while before deciding to buy an extended mag for the 10-22.I bought a couple a few years ago and NEVER use them.The mag is just in front of the trigger guard and that also happens to be the balance point of the gun. That's the way I normally care and with the extended mag you just can't do it. My extended mags now stay in my two trucks as a fast back-up mag if I ever need them in a hurry.

Enjoy!


Wade


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## GREENCOUNTYPETE (Jul 25, 2006)

that's funny my 25 round mag sits in the truck as a quick backup ammo supply also, fun at the range, i never get enough **** at once to need it it would be a problem i would like to have , but the 10 round keeps going in and out of the gun and getting refilled when i get home I don't leave the gun in the truck overnight 

if i am going to be a long ways from the truck i toss the 25rnd mag in my coat pocket as it is easier than cold fingers and little cartridges


now i just have to do this before you get someone all riled up for real  IT IS NOT A CLIP! it is a removable magazine 
this is a clip http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clip_(ammunition)


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## motdaugrnds (Jul 3, 2002)

ummmm ..... I'm running into some terminology I don't understand; so will need to google them.

What I'm hearing is, if I get the 10/22, I would be wise to get the "clip" magazine rather than the "tube" and an "extended" clip magazine can be problematic when carrying the gun. (My ignorance is not permitting me to get a visual on this yet.)


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## bowdonkey (Oct 6, 2007)

Motdaugrunds, if you get the Ruger it will come with a magazine. They are not made any other way. Some manufacturers use tubes to store the bullets. They are mounted under the barrel. They kind of look like an over under shotgun, sort of. Just get a gun that uses a magazine. Far eaiser to load and unload. And pick up an extra mag or two just in case. The term clip is used to also describe a magazine. Improper usage but everyone says it. The clerk will know what your talking about in any case. To further confuse you, to my knowledge there are no 22's made that uses real clips. And don't get an extended mag, stay with the standard 10 shot flush seated mag that comes standard. The extended mags are OK though for just plinking or making the final stand when the hordes come! They're a royal pain for hunting in tough country.


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## 1shotwade (Jul 9, 2013)

It's all good! It's just my lack of command of the English language!What I was trying to say is the 10/22 has a "clip" type mag. Others like the marlin 60 has a "tube" type feeding system. The "clip type as in the ruger 10-22 is preferred because you can remove the clip and empty the chamber and put it in your truck and you are legal. 
Others with the "tube"-you'll have to unload one shell at a time by ejecting them from the gun or remove the tube rod ,turn it up side down and let the shells fall out.Then put the rod back in and clear the chamber and any remaining in the tube that did not fall out.Very time consuming.
The other difference is this. With the clip like the 10/22, if you are driving and see a coyote or what ever you stop,grab the clip and push it in and chamber a round and you are ready to go.with the tube type like the marlin 60 you have to remove the tube rod,load the shells loose one at a time,put the rod back,chamber a round and you're ready.Again,very time consuming.
The whole point is that with the clip it is much faster and easier to become legal for the road and the same in reverse.Much faster to load and be ready to fire when you need too.

You understand that ALL 10/22's are "clip" fed,right? OK,so on the 10/22 the balance point on the gun is directly in front of the trigger guard.This is the most convenient place to hold it when carrying it with one hand.This is also the place where the "clip" fits into the gun.The clip that comes with the gun fits flat with the rest of the surface of the gun therefore it is not a problem griping the gun there when carrying on handed.With the "extended" or "high capacity" clips,the clip protrudes from the bottom which does not allow you to grip the gun at the balance point for the one hand carry. It is very awkward to carry if it is not balanced in your hand. 

I hope this is a little clearer.(sometimes I get my tongue over my eye teeth and can't see what I'm saying! LOL). Once you go to the gun shop and actually handle the 10/22 it will become more clear. And don't hesitate to ask more questions. This is our interests and we enjoy the conversations.

Wade


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## GREENCOUNTYPETE (Jul 25, 2006)

because a picture is worth a thousand words

top is a Ruger 10/22 delux it has the walnut stock the and no barrel band , you may also notice it wears a light under the barrel and is topped with a open type red dot sight , this is set up for night use 
first pic shows with a 25 round aftermarket removable magazine in 
the second pic shows it with the factory 10 round in 

then a picture of one of the few guns where the term "clip" is appropriate official name " US RIFLE CAL .30 M1 " but everyone knows it as the "M1 Garand"
and a picture showing you how the EN BLOC clip loads into the rifle from the top , if i push it in all the way all you will see is the bolt as it closes as soon as the clip is all the way in even if your thumb is still in the way , if you learn to load it right the bolt closes with your thumb riding out of the way , if you don't you get a very sore thumb. the en bloc holds 8 rounds 30-06 inside the rifle and ejects after firing the last of the 8 rounds , yes my bullets look weird they are boolits this is the term we use to distinguish home cast lead from factory copper jacketed bulltes , and the use is only really known to casters most people didn't even know what we do was possible.

finally bottom a Marlin model 336 in 30-30 this is an example of a tube magazine the cartridges load in the loading port and are carried in the tube below the barrel this model holds 7 rounds , 6 in the tubular magazine , and 1 in the chamber also referred to in our jargon as the "pipe" example it holds 6 in the "mag" 1 in the "pipe"


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## simi-steading (Sep 27, 2012)

I see your thumb looks to be in good shape there Pete


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## motdaugrnds (Jul 3, 2002)

Bowdonkey, Wade & Pete. That information is very welcomed; and the pictures are a real help.

I'm leaning even more toward the Ruger 10-22 "delux" with the night light vision and flashlight. Do these have an adjustable trigger or at least one that can be pulled easily by a woman with little strength in her fingers? (I'm going to do some googling/calling as to prices around and talk with the gun shop about this gun.)

You are all such gems!! (Semi-steading, I suspect it would be someone like me who got their thumb hit!)


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## GREENCOUNTYPETE (Jul 25, 2006)

they do not have adjustable triggers but a drop in trigger group can be purchased , I don't think you will the replacement trigger group it the factory trigger is reasonable , keep in mind that when we talk triggers a good and a bad trigger may only be ounces apart , but some of it is feel , length of pull , crispness with which the trigger breaks 

if you can pull the trigger on your mossberg shotgun or your glock pistol you will have no problem with any of the triggers that come on the factory 22 riles we have discussed 

the flash light is a streamlight pro-tac 2AA http://www.amazon.com/Streamlight-8...791&sr=8-1&keywords=streamlight+aa+flashlight

the mount is a nebo http://www.amazon.com/NEBO-5598-Uni...qid=1391835116&sr=8-1&keywords=nebo+gun+mount

if i didn't already own that flash light i would have probably bought the nebo light and mount combo 

I really like my stream lights and they are very good flashlights , the same brand same lumens carried by the police here but they carry the rechargeable model , i just use rechargeable batteries and charge them out of the flash light to save cost 
I have carried one of these streamlight pro-tac 2AA for a year now evry day in my pocket i use it all the time , but i will tell you i have lost 1 , and loosing a 39 dollar flash light is painful , actually i though i lost a second one and that is why i have the one on this gun i bought it to replace the one i carry every day and then found my daily carry bug relief , but for me i would go through a 7-10 dollar flash light that had a lot less light every 3-4 months so i am not spending any more on a good light than i did on several cheap lights that would eat batteries and go bad at inconvenient times 


the sight http://www.amazon.com/Ultimate-Arms...d=1391832087&sr=8-2&keywords=tactical+red+dot
I have only had this a few months , it is not a long range precession sight i prefer the dot over the other reticules , but in combo with he flash light for night work at relitivly short distances under 100 feet it works good it is nice to be able to see it , makes sight picture video game stupid easy place red dot on what you want to shoot pull trigger 

time to introduce you to a new term MOA is the acronym for Minute Of Angle some what like the lines on a map are set in degrees and minutes a Minute of angle is a measure of angle less than a degree 1/60th to be precise a minute of angle at 100 yards in 1.047 inches close enough to an inch for any shooting most people do that it is just rounded to an inch so a MOA at 200 yards is 2 inches and so on till at 1000 yards it is 10.47 inches 

why i bring up MOA the red dot sight has a 3 MOA red dot this means that the best i can expect the sight to get me is a 3 inch group at 100 yards or about 1.5 at 50 yards or 3/4 at 25 yards so not really a presition aiming device but 3/4 at 25 is plenty good for racoons especialy since i have never shot one much over 10-15 yards

before i put this red dot sight on the rifle wore a traditional scope for many years , as i originally set it up to shoot rabbits from the garden at the time the garden was 75 yards from the back porch


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## GREENCOUNTYPETE (Jul 25, 2006)

simi-steading said:


> I see your thumb looks to be in good shape there Pete


I know you would never know i lost half the finger nail , shattered the bone , and everything from that half a finger nail to the end was hamburger 

but it was 20 years ago in an accident working at a lumber yard

the things we can get away with when we are young

the other thumb holding the camera is even better , never been crushed between 2 piles of lumber 

but i was very careful to learn the proper way to insert a clip


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## motdaugrnds (Jul 3, 2002)

Pete, are you saying I would need to purchase the 22 delux plus 3 other items, i.e. the "NEBO 5598 Universal Long Gun Light Mount", "NEBO BLACK Redline #5610 flashlight" and the "FordEx group 300 lm Mini cree led flashlight torch adjutable focus zoom light lamp"?


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## GREENCOUNTYPETE (Jul 25, 2006)

if you wanted one just like mine . with red dot and mounted light

the gun comes with sights so you don't need optics , but I found the red dot and mounted light to be easier to use in the dark . state rules vary as to what you can shoot at night, I trap and i check traps in the dark before work.

Nebo does a combo with the light and mount together

by the way the Deluxe model only gets you nicer wood , it does nothing for function 

deluxe http://www.budsgunshop.com/catalog/...R+1022+BLUEWOOD+22+DELUXE+SPORTER-STYLE+STOCK

standard wood http://www.budsgunshop.com/catalog/product_info.php/cPath/36_59_79/products_id/70280

standard synthetic http://www.budsgunshop.com/catalog/product_info.php/cPath/36_59_79/products_id/70626

if you choose to put an optic on it comes down to what you intend to do with your gun like i said when mine was set up to shoot rabbits in the garden at 75-100 yards from the porch it had a more traditional magnifying scope.


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## motdaugrnds (Jul 3, 2002)

Thanks Pete. I'm going to see if my gunshop has those and try them out on his range.


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## swamp man (Dec 25, 2005)

GREENCOUNTYPETE....Excellent job of explaining tube magazines vs detachable magazines vs stripper clips. I was gonna' try, but was only halfway through my first cup of coffee.

I love to 10/22..it's a fine, time proven design, fairly priced, and as was pointed out, can be customized into dern near anything you can dream up. Mine has certainly earned it's keep, and one day when I'm a rich man I'll have at least fifty pimped out for anything and everything.

BUT......it don't fit the bill described in the OP. Noise is an issue, and a 10/22 will be loud even with CB ammunition, and it won't cycle them, anyway. Loaded individually, my 10/22 often extracts one that doesn't clear the action, and I get a spent casing standing up and jammed between the bolt face and the chamber.
The Crickett might be a good option. I bought one for my daughter, her first "real" gun. It ain't the dimestore version at Wally's, but a real shooter, stainless steel on laminate furniture. It's real, real quiet with CB's, is at least as accurate as I am from an offhand position, and operates through a wide gamut of ammunition.
....but it's a single shot.
Handguns?...nope. The poster hasn't the knowledge or experience to operate one effectively. Anyone who's put their time in at the range knows that handguns, having a short sight radius, are harder to hit bullseyes with, and require a heckuva' lot of ammo and practice to become even mildly proficient.
The option that I haven't seen brought up is the Henry lever-action. it's light (ish), accurate, reliable, cycles CB, short, long, and Long rifle, and is very quiet with Cb's. And, it's Purdy, too.


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## GREENCOUNTYPETE (Jul 25, 2006)

and the reasons i did not bring up the Henry , both the henry and marlin 22 rim fire lever actions rifles are fine shooter , But 

- they start at about 300 , budget was mentioned 
- they have tube magazines , and as discussed not conducive to speedy load unload 
- if caught out in the rain or foul weather they are much more work to break down and clean 

for these reasons i had started suggesting the savage MKII bolt
-it fit budget 
-it fit quiet 
-it is easy to clean 
- and my 4H kids break everything else with greater frequency than they break the savage MKII bolt rifles I think we have 10 of them 

yes we do get a special deal on them through the CMP direct from savage that is only available to registered youth shooting sports groups but the savage MKII-FVT is intended to be a program gun and the added use and stress that puts on a gun.

I have a feeling she had originally thought quite would be nice but it wasn't a must so like many others 10 rounds on demand and easy access to accessories as well as a time proven design and the 10/22 sounded very nice 

buy the way I had a chance to look over the Savage Rascal , Savages answer to the cricket , it costs a bit more but has better sights and I prefer the safety it uses the same type of thumb safety the MKII uses and it is right were i think it should be

I have bought or put down more than one gun because i didn't like where the safety was located or how it worked or didn't for me


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## JohnL751 (Aug 28, 2008)

arcticow said:


> But how hard is it to find the ammo? Are we talking about CB caps or ??


These are both good rounds if you use them for what they are intended. 
The CB Short has a max effective range of 90 feet, good for tree rats.
The BB Cap have a max effective range of 25 feet and are good for the rats you find in the barn around animal feed.


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