# The Mass Exodus of California...From a Californians Point Of View



## cornbread (Jul 4, 2005)

The Mass Exodus of California...From a Californians Point Of View

The state is pricing out the very people that are needed to keep a stable tax base.

WHY CALIFORNIA SUCKS!!!





It is impossible to explain why California sucks in only 12 minutes.


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## ET1 SS (Oct 22, 2005)

I am a native Californian as well. I migrated to Maine after I retired.

Taxes here in New England are much lower than California is.


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## dyrne (Feb 22, 2015)

I'm sure cost of living is a factor but people gravitate to overpriced hipster areas all the time. It feels like there must be some other root cause.


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## GTX63 (Dec 13, 2016)

What she is saying isn't anything new, but she doesn't give a clear perspective on it.

My wife's nephew and his wife pastor a large church in California, and they repeat many of the same issues the OP does in the video. The town they live in has such a fluctuation of residents, who will transfer/move in and stay for a short period of time, due to the cost of living. If it were not for church owned property, they could not afford a small tract home or even a decent apartment on their incomes.
The beauty of the area wears about as thin as the wallet, and folks just cannot justify the constant drain on their funds just to exists, on top of the fees, taxes and regulations.
Nevada and Arizona to the south are having to make room.​


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## Meinecke (Jun 30, 2017)

Yup...that sounds bad...but i get it...NJ is not as crazy, but catching up...
Someone just things we are all just not rich because we dont work enough...
This dream was maybe right before the great depression, but since the 60, this is over...


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## AmericanStand (Jul 29, 2014)

Meinecke said:


> Yup...that sounds bad...but i get it...NJ is not as crazy, but catching up...
> Someone just things we are all just not rich because we dont work enough...
> This dream was maybe right before the great depression, but since the 60, this is over...


 Yep the demise of the union has led a downward spiral for the working man.


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## Lisa in WA (Oct 11, 2004)

GTX63 said:


> ....Nevada and Arizona to the south are having to make room.​


And Washington, Oregon and Idaho. 
I feel badly for individual Californians but so many of them are coming that they are viewed as a monolithic entity. 
Like New Yorkers in Florida and Vermont.


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## GTX63 (Dec 13, 2016)

AmericanStand said:


> Yep the demise of the union has led a downward spiral for the working man.


How's that CTU doing for those working folks in the big windy?


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## CKelly78z (Jul 16, 2017)

I'll gladly live in my flyover state (Ohio), and prosper in my LCOL (Low cost of living), and taxes. I used to want to visit my wife's Aunt/Uncle in Orange county, but no longer, they have become strongly opinionated, militant liberals, and the traffic/prices around them is ridiculous.


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## GTX63 (Dec 13, 2016)

I have had a sister, a brother, several business associates among others that lived there long term. They were all fairly conservative and they didn't alter their values based on the mind washing that is going on out there. The cost of existing, the heavy regulations and the militant oversight and demand for conforming were the main reasons they left.
A guy and his wife I knew who previously had lived in Boston, hated the political climate with a passion. They were only there while their daughter attended college, but he let his feeling known every chance he had in ways that would have made Archie Bunker proud.


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## mreynolds (Jan 1, 2015)

Read an article last week that said the number of people yearly that were leaving increases every year by a large sum. They have been net loss for 5 years now. Often the ones coming in are temp for jobs so they don't stay long term.


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## AmericanStand (Jul 29, 2014)

Do you object to free association? Why shouldn’t liberals live with liberals?


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## mreynolds (Jan 1, 2015)

AmericanStand said:


> Do you object to free association? Why shouldn’t liberals live with liberals?


Who are you talking to?


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## AmericanStand (Jul 29, 2014)

Everyone


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## mreynolds (Jan 1, 2015)

AmericanStand said:


> Everyone


Well I guess as long as they can afford to let them be. I would rather hang out among the other side so I can afford to eat.


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## Miss Kay (Mar 31, 2012)

Housing is already expensive and each year more and more houses burn in the wildfires. I feel sorry for them. I sure wouldn't want to deal with all they have to deal with.


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## geo in mi (Nov 14, 2008)

IF we can get an accurate 2020 census, it will be interesting to see who are the comers and the goers.

geo


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## GTX63 (Dec 13, 2016)

AmericanStand said:


> Do you object to free association? Why shouldn’t liberals live with liberals?


Isn't that how it is in Illinois?


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## Mish (Oct 15, 2015)

Yeah, the problem is a lot of them leave California and then turn wherever they moved into mini-California. Witness Colorado, most of the western coastal states, and Texas is probably at the tipping point right about now.

My husband thinks it's part of the plan. Spreading the news by driving people out, as it were.


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## Mish (Oct 15, 2015)

Miss Kay said:


> Housing is already expensive and each year more and more houses burn in the wildfires. I feel sorry for them. I sure wouldn't want to deal with all they have to deal with.


At least down here, most of them are just rebuilt, insurance covers it and even if it doesn't the Feds swoop in with help. We had a fire a few years ago that wiped out a trailer park and a stick-built neighborhood on the outskirts of town. There were signs all over the place on where to go for federal help if you didn't have insurance. So in some ways, everyone is paying for it.

The major cause of the housing prices (IMHO) is government restrictions on new buildings (be it overly taxing codes/permitting or just outright refusing to allow housing to be built) and domestic/foreign investment groups in real estate here. You just can't compete with the cash buyer groups if you're an average Joe.

There's been some griping about the EB-5 Visa holders as well for several years. I don't know how much of an impact it makes, but apparently at least some.


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

Seems like Cali gov only wants uber rich to pay taxes and illegals to mow lawns


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## mreynolds (Jan 1, 2015)

Mish said:


> At least down here, most of them are just rebuilt, insurance covers it and even if it doesn't the Feds swoop in with help. We had a fire a few years ago that wiped out a trailer park and a stick-built neighborhood on the outskirts of town. There were signs all over the place on where to go for federal help if you didn't have insurance. So in some ways, everyone is paying for it.
> 
> The major cause of the housing prices (IMHO) is government restrictions on new buildings (be it overly taxing codes/permitting or just outright refusing to allow housing to be built) and domestic/foreign investment groups in real estate here. You just can't compete with the cash buyer groups if you're an average Joe.
> 
> There's been some griping about the EB-5 Visa holders as well for several years. I don't know how much of an impact it makes, but apparently at least some.


Starting next year, every new house in California has to have solar panels.


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## Mish (Oct 15, 2015)

mreynolds said:


> Starting next year, every new house in California has to have solar panels.


Yep. That'll help the housing crisis and price crisis.


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## Evons hubby (Oct 3, 2005)

mreynolds said:


> Starting next year, every new house in California has to have solar panels.


My house has solar panels. The old timers around here call them "winder lites".


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## mreynolds (Jan 1, 2015)

Yvonne's hubby said:


> My house has solar panels. The old timers around here call them "winder lites".


I wonder if they taste as good as hog lites?


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## poppy (Feb 21, 2008)

California's problems are just a reflection of what liberal policies bring everywhere they get tried. The brush fires are due to liberals banning brush clearing and logging. Every state has power lines, trees, and wind, but they don't have wild fires like California because crews keep trees and brush cut back away from the power lines. The homeless problem is another example of liberal policies. Liberals created the problem but they are unable or unwilling to solve it. Liberals love spending other people's money to buy votes and result in higher and higher taxes until the people flee. Illinois is headed the same way.


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## GTX63 (Dec 13, 2016)

Lol, Poppy my wife's old girlfriend from highschool lives there and forwarded two facebook pages she frequents run by Illinois residents.
Escape Illinois and Get Out of Illinois.


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## Oxankle (Jun 20, 2003)

I do not mind the idea of people leaving an inhospitable area, but I am dead set agsainst their bringing with them the values that destroyed their previous home.

Austin.Texas is right now dealing with the same homeless crud that California is exporting. Animals living under bridges and doing their drug culture, harassing passers by, defecating in the streets and on the sidewalks. 

I am for bringing back the poor farms and the mental hospitals.

Edit to add: and public flogging.


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## Evons hubby (Oct 3, 2005)

Oxankle said:


> I do not mind the idea of people leaving an inhospitable area, but I am dead set agsainst their bringing with them the values that destroyed their previous home.
> 
> Austin.Texas is right now dealing with the same homeless crud that California is exporting. Animals living under bridges and doing their drug culture, harassing passers by, defecating in the streets and on the sidewalks.
> 
> ...


That's my thinking as well. These folks need help, the best way to provide those needs is in centralized locations.


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## GunMonkeyIntl (May 13, 2013)

mreynolds said:


> Well I guess as long as they can afford to let them be. I would rather hang out among the other side so I can afford to eat.


See, I thought I liked hanging out with the side that thinks most like I do, but eventually came to realize that, the more I hang out with them, the crazier they seem.

At least when I hang out around the other side of the table, and their craziness becomes too much to bear, I can console myself by reflecting on how weird they are.


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

mreynolds said:


> Starting next year, every new house in California has to have solar panels.


But they still can't use them when the power is out.


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## mzgarden (Mar 16, 2012)

I grew up in So Cal, got married, had a family and couldn't wait to get out. My company closed down my dept and centralized everyone doing the work to Ohio - they would move us, we would go. Total blessing for us. Parents stayed in So Cal until they passed, Brother & SIL still there but getting priced out. I can't imagine ever going back to visit, let alone stay.


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## AmericanStand (Jul 29, 2014)

GTX63 said:


> Isn't that how it is in Illinois?


Not really Illinois has two basic groups of people the conservatives that live in Chicago and the people downstate who think the Chicago people are far too liberal.


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## AmericanStand (Jul 29, 2014)

Mish said:


> Yeah, the problem is a lot of them leave California and then turn wherever they moved into mini-California. Witness Colorado, most of the western coastal states, and Texas is probably at the tipping point right about now.
> 
> My husband thinks it's part of the plan. Spreading the news by driving people out, as it were.


so what you’re telling me is that conservatives like a lot of the benefits that liberal Californians have obtained in their state .
They just don’t wanna pay for them so they leave California and it’s taxes behind but take the ideas with them?


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## AmericanStand (Jul 29, 2014)

poppy said:


> Every state has power lines, trees, and wind, but they don't have wild fires like California because crews keep trees and brush cut back away from the power lines. The homeless problem is another example of liberal policies. Liberals created the problem but they are unable or unwilling to solve it. Liberals love spending other people's money to buy votes and result in higher and higher taxes until the people flee. Illinois is headed the same way.


 I don’t think that’s exactly right California is in a unique position among states where it gets substantial rains that grow significant amounts of organic materials and then it is dry afterwards for the majority of the year.
California was called the golden state referring to the dried plant materials long before the goldrush . 
It has significant amounts of what is essentially desert country Except for a short monsoon season. 
Add that to a large population living in those areas and you get California’s unique problems. 
I have said many times that California like Manhattan would be a wonderful place to live if you could convince everyone else to move out


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## AmericanStand (Jul 29, 2014)

Bearfootfarm said:


> But they still can't use them when the power is out.


Why not ?


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## GTX63 (Dec 13, 2016)

AmericanStand said:


> Not really Illinois has two basic groups of people the conservatives that live in Chicago and the people downstate who think the Chicago people are far too liberal.


And yet they keep electing the do good feel good politicians, like California.


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## AmericanStand (Jul 29, 2014)

That’s just the silliest thing I’ve ever heard. Illinois has a long and proven record of electing the politicians who can steal the most It is one thing that Illinois truly excels at . So much so that the department of corrections is in charge of our governor‘s retirement program.....


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## Wolf mom (Mar 8, 2005)

Oxankle said:


> I do not mind the idea of people leaving an inhospitable area, but I am dead set against their bringing with them the values that destroyed their previous home.


Right on! This really applies to Illegal aliens also.


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## Darren (May 10, 2002)

I had several work assignments in California about thirty years ago. I saw the state from Sacramento to San Diego. I liked the weather. But on some level the state felt alien. 

I turned down an offer to relocate and work out of the company office in LA. Even though I would have been working in a rural area near Sacramento as soon as I got the offer I called the project I was TDA from and requested a recall to the project in Mississippi. A week later I left and never looked back.


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## farmrbrown (Jun 25, 2012)

Bearfootfarm said:


> But they still can't use them when the power is out.





AmericanStand said:


> Why not ?


Because batteries haven't been invented yet.


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## AmericanStand (Jul 29, 2014)

But what if the sun is shining ?


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## Mish (Oct 15, 2015)

AmericanStand said:


> so what you’re telling me is that conservatives like a lot of the benefits that liberal Californians have obtained in their state .
> They just don’t wanna pay for them so they leave California and it’s taxes behind but take the ideas with them?


No, what I'm telling you is that people can't afford to live in California so they have to move. Doesn't matter if they're conservative or liberal.

Generally speaking, though, even a native Californian that considers themselves conservative is still a lot more liberal than your average conservative somewhere else. Most Californians don't even consider themselves conservative.


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## farmrbrown (Jun 25, 2012)

I'd like to apologize in advance if this thread gets booted to the dark hole, but I was amused by the references to Illinois, California, labor unions and liberal/conservative policies.
Sometimes truth is stranger than fiction....

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ronald_Reagan


> *Ronald Wilson Reagan* (/ˈreɪɡən/; February 6, 1911 – June 5, 2004) was an American politician who served as the 40th president of the United States from 1981 to 1989 and became the highly influential voice of modern conservatism. Prior to his presidency, he was a Hollywood actor and union leader before serving as the 33rd governor of California from 1967 to 1975.
> 
> Reagan was raised in a low-income family in small towns of northern Illinois. He graduated from Eureka College in 1932 and worked as a sports commentator on several regional radio stations. After moving to California in 1937, he found work as an actor and starred in a few major productions. Reagan was twice elected President of the Screen Actors Guild—the labor union for actors—where he worked to root out Communist influence. In the 1950s, he moved into television and was a motivational speaker at General Electric factories, during which time he became a conservative. Reagan was a Democrat until 1962 when he switched to the Republican Party. In 1964, Reagan's speech, "A Time for Choosing", supported Barry Goldwater's foundering presidential campaign and earned him national attention as a new conservative spokesman.


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## Mish (Oct 15, 2015)

mzgarden said:


> I grew up in So Cal, got married, had a family and couldn't wait to get out. My company closed down my dept and centralized everyone doing the work to Ohio - they would move us, we would go. Total blessing for us. Parents stayed in So Cal until they passed, Brother & SIL still there but getting priced out. I can't imagine ever going back to visit, let alone stay.


Heh, you did the opposite of what I did. Born and raised in Ohio, ended up in So Cal after traveling the country for 20 years. Mostly because this was my husband's last duty station, the kids were finishing school, and the husband's family was mostly out here. 

Almost 10 years later, we're still here. I really, really want to go home (OK if I'm honest make a little further south like Kentucky, I don't know how well I'd do with lake effect winters anymore).


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## mreynolds (Jan 1, 2015)

Well when your from Texas no other place matters.


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## solar (Feb 11, 2010)

I lived in California back in 1969. It was pretty sorry then and has gotten much worse. Half the population doesn't speak English. Gangs roam the state like they own it. We have become strangers in our own land.


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## Grandpappy (Apr 22, 2017)

Mish said:


> No, what I'm telling you is that people can't afford to live in California so they have to move. Doesn't matter if they're conservative or liberal.
> 
> Generally speaking, though, even a native Californian that considers themselves conservative is still a lot more liberal than your average conservative somewhere else. Most Californians don't even consider themselves conservative.


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## Grandpappy (Apr 22, 2017)

Left CA in 94 before it was Cali. Moved to Kentucky where people can afford to live. I’m retired now and I darn sure couldn’t afford “Cali”.


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## ChuChan (Apr 15, 2013)

HDRider said:


> Seems like Cali gov only wants uber rich to pay taxes and illegals to mow lawns


All the lawn guys I know of make on average $75.00/hr and drive the latest, biggest trucks and live way better in Tijauna than most of the people they work for. Those guys ain't hurtin'.


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## ChuChan (Apr 15, 2013)

I was born here in CA and have lived here my whole life, except for 7 years. This is not the same CA I grew up in and have loved. I've been trying to get my husband to move for years and Lord willing it will happen early next year. The reason being, the corrupted left wing politicians such as Pelosi and her nephew Gavin Newsome. Who by the way are part of the Rothchild dynasty and own the Federal Reserve. CA has taken in Fed $ handouts and nothing to show for it, just like Baltimore. 

I'm sick and tired of watching the mentality of the citizens change to accept the "new normals" that are instituted, whether it be home prices, fires (that happen only in central CA from a variety of reasons but we're told it's the weather?? If that's the case San Diego county should have just as many fires when the Santa Ana's hit!), taxes, homelessness, etc, that have become more extreme than ever before. It''s not something I can accept any longer and yet I'm being told I HAVE to?!? With the fires and antifa, reminds me of Germany's pogroms and herding populations into controlled areas. So hope I'm wrong.

I am a conservative and have no wish to bring CA ideals with me. I want them left far behind. I was taught to work hard, not depend on handouts, help your neighbors in need, do what is morally right. There are a lot more people here that feel the same but are not "woke" yet.

And I ThankQ all for the wonderful wisdom and support that you share.


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## MissyinKentucky (Jan 23, 2003)

I am 64, born and raised in the SF Bay Area. Got married in '88 and we decided we didn't want to raise a child there. It was getting too crazy. Half of our income went into our $1300 a month mortgage. Finally we decided to leave. bought a 1920's home in Iowa $14,000. Moved out in '95. Because of church affiliation before we moved, we continued on to Ohio, where we still live. There we bought a 38 acre farm for $96,000. Kids still bike to the store and leave their bikes unlocked outside. In the Spring WalMart has all their plants outside in the parking lot. No one steals them, they just put them in the basket and go in and pay. So many things that haven't been that way in CA for 50 years. Young people can still expect to buy a home when they get married as there are plenty under $100,000, hell there's plenty under $50,000. My husband's brother still lives there. He won't go on vacation because he's afraid squatters will break into his home and confiscate it. Multiple homes on his block have 5 famililies living there and 5 or more cars for each house parking in front of his house so he has no place to park. Say anything and you risk damage to your property. No thank you. I went back for my brother's funeral a few years ago, and couldn't wait to leave and get back to sanity.


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## mreynolds (Jan 1, 2015)

California has been killing itself from within for the past 40 years. They have a housing shortage and too many insane regulations. I read they would have to build 3.5 million new homes in the next 6 years just to break even. That's assuming no one else moves there and with the current net loss taken into consideration.

It's so bad there that Facebook has donated 25 million dollars to build an apartment for teachers to live while being subsidized by the state. They make too much for HUD housing and not enough to live there. Even by renting. 

The median house price is 600k in Cali. That's more than twice the price everywhere else. The poverty rate, when adjusted to cost of living, is the worst in the nation. Cali is 12% of the population but 25% of the homeless. Cali has the highest percentage of households that spend more than 30 percent on housing. 

Yet people still believe they are the bomb. Let's get real and really look into what they have done to themselves.


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## ChuChan (Apr 15, 2013)

missyinohio said:


> I am 64, born and raised in the SF Bay Area. Got married in '88 and we decided we didn't want to raise a child there. It was getting too crazy. Half of our income went into our $1300 a month mortgage. Finally we decided to leave. bought a 1920's home in Iowa $14,000. Moved out in '95. Because of church affiliation before we moved, we continued on to Ohio, where we still live. There we bought a 38 acre farm for $96,000. Kids still bike to the store and leave their bikes unlocked outside. In the Spring WalMart has all their plants outside in the parking lot. No one steals them, they just put them in the basket and go in and pay. So many things that haven't been that way in CA for 50 years. Young people can still expect to buy a home when they get married as there are plenty under $100,000, hell there's plenty under $50,000. My husband's brother still lives there. He won't go on vacation because he's afraid squatters will break into his home and confiscate it. Multiple homes on his block have 5 famililies living there and 5 or more cars for each house parking in front of his house so he has no place to park. Say anything and you risk damage to your property. No thank you. I went back for my brother's funeral a few years ago, and couldn't wait to leave and get back to sanity.



Where in SF Bay area did you grow up? Born in San Jose and grew up in Fremont, I remember those days when it was still fairly safe and could leave your door unlocked. Always had a love affair with SF as a teen and young adult. If it hadn't been for our 7 years in Japan I probably would still have blinders on. I knew how our politicians were selling our country down the river (husband saw so much waste in Afghanistan like you wouldn't believe not to mention the building up of the infrastructure and pallets of laundered money!) but I didn't know how bad CA had become. You made a wise choice getting out when you did. It's so true what your brother is going thru, it's that way even here in San Diego county in some areas. So many people are like the science class frog with heat being turned up, they aren't going to realize until it's too late.......


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## Hitch (Oct 19, 2016)

Aside from going out of state for college I have always lived in CA. Unfortunately, we're too imbedded here to relocate (business, real estate holdings and family). But come retirement I don't foresee living here, not because of the high cost of living but because of the liberal political climate. The government has shifted so far to the left with the right having virtually no say it has become a one-party state and lacks any sort of checks and balances.


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## B&L Chicken Ranch and Spa (Jan 4, 2019)

"So many people are like the science class frog with heat being turned up, they aren't going to realize until it's too late......."

Good analogy.

We are moving to Maine from Washington progressive politics (really a different term for MORE TAXES for workers)
Government is moving Africans to Maine because, and I am quoting, it is too white!


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## dyrne (Feb 22, 2015)

mreynolds said:


> Well when your from Texas no other place matters.


Texas seems to be a distinct shade of purple lately. Do you have an exit strategy or will you stay in a rural area while the towns and cities begin to vote opposite of you and enforce their view of the way (what used to be your) society should operate? Not to be all doom and gloom, just curious.


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

B&L Chicken Ranch and Spa said:


> "So many people are like the science class frog with heat being turned up, they aren't going to realize until it's too late......."
> 
> Good analogy.
> 
> ...


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## mreynolds (Jan 1, 2015)

dyrne said:


> Texas seems to be a distinct shade of purple lately. Do you have an exit strategy or will you stay in a rural area while the towns and cities begin to vote opposite of you and enforce their view of the way (what used to be your) society should operate? Not to be all doom and gloom, just curious.


Wasn't too long ago we were blue. Most forget that. But the blue here is more purple than deep blue. 

We have plenty good blue people here and I vote often for some of them. It's the blue in the face people I have issue with.


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## mml373 (May 2, 2017)

poppy said:


> California's problems are just a reflection of what liberal policies bring everywhere they get tried. The brush fires are due to liberals banning brush clearing and logging. Every state has power lines, trees, and wind, but they don't have wild fires like California because crews keep trees and brush cut back away from the power lines. The homeless problem is another example of liberal policies. Liberals created the problem but they are unable or unwilling to solve it. Liberals love spending other people's money to buy votes and result in higher and higher taxes until the people flee. Illinois is headed the same way.


Don't discount the Santa Ana winds...a very real problem that contributes to the fires in California, and one other states don't have to deal with.


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## mml373 (May 2, 2017)

mreynolds said:


> Wasn't too long ago we were blue. Most forget that. But the blue here is more purple than deep blue.
> 
> We have plenty good blue people here and I vote often for some of them. It's the blue in the face people I have issue with.


Grew up south of Houston. They've been fighting the nuts there for decades, and Austin is a lost cause.

Lots of influx of Californians to Houston due to the aerospace biz nuttied up the place long ago.


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## mml373 (May 2, 2017)

AmericanStand said:


> That’s just the silliest thing I’ve ever heard. Illinois has a long and proven record of electing the politicians who can steal the most It is one thing that Illinois truly excels at . So much so that the department of corrections is in charge of our governor‘s retirement program.....


Heheheh. I lived in O'Fallon for a few years (2014-2017) while stationed outside of St. Louis. Lovely place, but there were some far lefties.

I can't imagine having to live in Chicago, Champaign, etc. Moving to Missouri next year...hopefully the rural part of the state where we'll settle is pretty conservative (seems to be.)


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## AmericanStand (Jul 29, 2014)

Lol Once you get out of the big cities of Illinois small towns in the rural areas are very conservative and to be honest they are conservative in the southern way. 
Most of Missouri is a hotbed of liberals compared to where I live.


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## ET1 SS (Oct 22, 2005)

mml373 said:


> Don't discount the Santa Ana winds...a very real problem that contributes to the fires in California, and one other states don't have to deal with.


Hot dry wind blowing in from the Mojave Desert does fan the fires, but extreme drought starts those fires, not the wind.






mml373 said:


> ... I can't imagine having to live in Chicago, Champaign, etc. Moving to Missouri next year...hopefully the rural part of the state where we'll settle is pretty conservative (seems to be.)


Check the aquafer in the region of Missouri where you want to migrate.

Some of those aquafers are running pretty low right now.

My familiy used to farm in Missouri, but those extreme droughts make farming difficult.


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## AmericanStand (Jul 29, 2014)

I don’t believe either drought or high dry wind will start fire but the winds would be more likely to create a lightning strike which might start a fire.


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## mml373 (May 2, 2017)

ET1 SS said:


> Hot dry wind blowing in from the Mojave Desert does fan the fires, but extreme drought starts those fires, not the wind.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Fortunately we're in a pretty good place, water-wise.

Say, caught the links in your signature line...innnteresting...


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## ET1 SS (Oct 22, 2005)

AmericanStand said:


> I don’t believe either drought or high dry wind will start fire but the winds would be more likely to create a lightning strike which might start a fire.


When the grass is green it is hard to get it to burn.

Dead brown grass burns real easy.


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## mml373 (May 2, 2017)

AmericanStand said:


> I don’t believe either drought or high dry wind will start fire but the winds would be more likely to create a lightning strike which might start a fire.


The Santa Ana winds are very warm and dry, effectively drying out the brush that California refuses to clear. Doesn't take much to spark something in that kind of environment where everything is so dry...and of course it spreads. Like wildfire.


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## AmericanStand (Jul 29, 2014)

Oh I very much agree !
I have spent considerable time in that environment in fact I believe I once saw the wind literally starting a fire but I believe it is a very usual occurrence.


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## Lisa in WA (Oct 11, 2004)

mreynolds said:


> Wasn't too long ago we were blue. Most forget that. But the blue here is more purple than deep blue.
> 
> We have plenty good blue people here and I vote often for some of them. It's the blue in the face people I have issue with.


sounds like Idaho. Idaho Dems are generally not at all like NY or MA Dems. More conservative


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## fordy (Sep 13, 2003)

................Don't forget boys and girls........Texas also Spells Taxes.......as in High Realestate Taxes ! , fordy


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## mreynolds (Jan 1, 2015)

Lisa in WA said:


> sounds like Idaho. Idaho Dems are generally not at all like NY or MA Dems. More conservative


Yeah our last blue Governor built more prisons than all the last 4 red ones combined.


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## Elevenpoint (Nov 17, 2009)

mml373 said:


> Heheheh. I lived in O'Fallon for a few years (2014-2017) while stationed outside of St. Louis. Lovely place, but there were some far lefties.
> 
> I can't imagine having to live in Chicago, Champaign, etc. Moving to Missouri next year...hopefully the rural part of the state where we'll settle is pretty conservative (seems to be.)


In rural Missouri you see plenty of Trump yard signs.
Permanent year round.


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## AmericanStand (Jul 29, 2014)

When you take into account that southern Illinois is yellow dog democrat country there are amazing numbers of trump signs
The truth of the matter is that Trump was not a democrat or a republican the Republicans did not want him he did not want to Democrats.

But the people huge numbers of people of both parties wanted Trump and they got him !


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