# Does A Good Guard Dog Have to Be Aggressive?



## CageFreeFamily (Jul 19, 2012)

My story:

My English Mastiff had always been gentle, friendly, and willing to come to strangers who called her. I trusted her implicitly to never harm another person. She did not bark at people going by, she did not stop the delivery men, etc.

However, one evening my husband went to the store during a TX windstorm. A man came to the door, and standing back from the porch, was talking to me. However, because of the wind storm I couldn't hear him so I stupidly unchained the door so that I could open it further and hear him better (why is he standing back so that I can't hear him?!) When I did that my EM got of the couch and started growling this deep menacing growl. I shouted at her to Go Back, and pointed to the couch. She walked back to the couch as I told her but her growl turned to a viscous bark. I stepped forward and they guy was talking nonsense, it didn't make sense. Just as she got of the couch and started stalking toward the door, he was stepping onto the porch. Then he turned, saw my husband pulling up in front of the house, and turned around and ran away. 
He knew my husband was gone. He knew what my husband's car looked like. He was baiting me to open the door, and I fell for it. My sweet, gentle, sleepy giant of a dog knew the entire time. The entire time without him having to make any kind of aggressive move. I have no doubt that a dog that had never shown any guarding tendencies would have straight up killed the guy had he tried to harm me.

I have two long time friends who had similar experiences with their dogs. One was saved from being raped, and the other was saved from being dragged out of her car. The first by her English Mastiff, and the second by her Great Dane.
In my years working with dogs I have heard so many of these stories. 

A good guard dog does not have to be obvious or preemptive. Many are, but ojeriza is not a necessary component of an effective guardian.

Not all guard dogs are bred to show aggressive tendencies. Some are specifically bred to show the opposite. This does not mean that the guardian has been bred out of them. 

If you come to my home you will be greeted by wagging tails and pure friendliness. You make a move to harm my family, or enter my home while I'm not here, and you will receive a very different kind of welcome from my gentle giants. 

Another thing to remember is that many giant breeds are very slow to mature, and some might put on a good show of fearfulness, laziness, or indifference until they reach sexual maturity. Some, as I've seen for myself, may never show anything else until the situation truly warrants it.

Before you discount an entire breed you might want to actually have some real experience living and working with it. You might want to spend a little time on some breed forums, talking to other owners, breeders, and handlers who are _actively involved in the preservation of *that breed*.

_Furthermore, if there are even a _handful_ of exceptions to the rule you have created, then you simply _cannot _apply your rule to the whole breed. You cannot discount an entire breed because of a bunch of back yard breeders turning out crap. If you did we would have to have discounted rottweilers, dobermans, german shepherds, great pyrenees, and a slew of other breeds that had to deal with the common misconception of their valuable breed being created by a group that had no business breeding or buying.


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## mekasmom (Jan 19, 2010)

LGDs are not aggressive dogs. Since this is a livestock forum, I assume that is what you are asking about?


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## pancho (Oct 23, 2006)

Just because a dog barks or growls at a person does not mean they will protect their owner. Barking and growling is a bluff. Most dogs that bark and growl will not follow through with the threat. The dogs that do not make a noise at all are some of the most dangerous.


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## CageFreeFamily (Jul 19, 2012)

mekasmom said:


> LGDs are not aggressive dogs. Since this is a livestock forum, I assume that is what you are asking about?


I think we established, with the moderator, in the American Bulldog thread, that this forum is not limited to Livestock guardian dogs, but is open to discussion of all guard animals. 

So no. I am discussing whether a dog can be expected to protect a family, or home, without giving previous signs of aggression toward strangers or strange situations. 

Pancho - I agree that some of the most dangerous dogs are the dogs who give no prior warning with barking or growling. I would have to disagree though that barking is bluffing, and that most dogs who bark and growl will not follow through. I think most of the Schutzhund dogs would disprove that.

My LGDs also bark and growl long before chasing coyotes. They don't exert any unnecessary energy. If they can get the threat to leave with a bark or a growl, they would prefer that to allowing the threat to approach and then having to attack. It's a smarter tactic for them that decreases their energy use as well as decreasing their risk of injury. Why bite when you can eliminate the threat with a bark or growl, or mere presence? However, if the threat chooses to advance despite their warning they will advance as well.


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## NamasteMama (Jul 24, 2009)

We had an english mastiff and he loved everyone! Never barked a a soul. One day a guy from the around the corner came by and tried to pet him. Immediately the dogs fur stood on end, he jumped between the guy and me and started acting like he was going to et the guy. Found out later the guy was a register sex offender for rape and being a pedophile. Dog never barked t a soul again.


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## TJN66 (Aug 29, 2004)

I have a german shepherd neutered male, 6 years old. He love everyone..except my one neighbor. He hates him, never leaves my side when he is around. Its nut just this dog...our other gsd also hated this same man. 

The only other time this dog has growled at someone is when a man walked on my enclosed front porch and into the living room. Ruso got between the mand and me. I gave him the command to stand down and he sat right by my side never taking his eyes off him. (Hubby was at work that day.) Both times Ruso only growled once but his hackles were raised. As soon as the man left he went back to being a couch decoration. 

Dogs just know I think.


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## Laurie J (Mar 9, 2005)

Livestock Guardian Dogs are generally not aggressive. The Great Pyrs we've had have not been at all. I wouldn't have an aggressive dog. They do, however, know when predators are threatening their livestock, and will take measures to protect their charges.


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## Otter (Jan 15, 2008)

I have 2 uncles that trained dogs for the police force. Drug detection and protection.

What they taught me is this; A good protection (guard) dog is NOT inherently aggressive. An aggressive dog is untrustworthy. A guard dog has a job to do, and does it. He doesn't have to be mean.

That is how I trained my Thunder. He was NOT an aggressive dog. He was totally trustworthy. Oh, the stories I could tell you! If you walked in through the gate and knocked on the front door, he was a sweet, polite, friendly dog. That was his job, and he did it.
If you came around _any_ other way - his job was different, his job was to put you out of there - and he did it.

I don't want an aggressive dog, and I sure as Hades don't want an independent, aggressive dog. A dog is _my_ responsibility and potentially lethal force - I don't want potentially lethal force that I am liable for acting on it's own judgement. They have the teeth but* I *have the brain.
I want a dog that has a job - it is my responsibility to give him that job, and my responsibility to make sure he knows it well.
I haven't done that with my current dogs - it takes time. They just bark - but as there's a whole pack of them to wade through, that's all I need from them, lol, don't worry about them, worry about _me._


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## CageFreeFamily (Jul 19, 2012)

Otter said:


> my[/I] responsibility and potentially lethal force - I don't want potentially lethal force that I am liable for acting on it's own judgement. They have the teeth but* I *have the brain.
> I want a dog that has a job - it is my responsibility to give him that job, and my responsibility to make sure he knows it well.


:goodjob: Yes, Yes!!
Agree completely!


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## Pops2 (Jan 27, 2003)

CageFreeFamily said:


> My story:
> 
> My English Mastiff had always been gentle, friendly, and willing to come to strangers who called her. I trusted her implicitly to never harm another person. She did not bark at people going by, she did not stop the delivery men, etc.
> 
> ...


First you cannot have absolutes when talking dogs because they are living things, and there will ALWAYS be exception with living things.
Second the whole point of having breeds is so you CAN speak in generalities of appearance, performance or both. But these generalities in NO WAY preclude the exceptions. Nor do the exceptions invalidate the generalities.
And FTR rotties and dobes have pretty much been discounted from professional dog work for about two decades now. Which is sad because the dobe was the USMC dog of choice in the pacific in WWII. The GSD OTH has essentially been divided into two breeds (like pointers) the show and the working. The military is in fact PROHIBITED from buying AKC registered GSDs. Heck they're only allowed to buy them to make up for shortfalls in available Belgian Mals anyway. So you're pretty safe in saying show line GSDs are generally worthless for PP/guard work.
I stand by my statement that started this whole mess, MOST EMs won't guard anything but the food bowl. Bt I do love to see the exceptions.


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## wendle (Feb 22, 2006)

mekasmom said:


> LGDs are not aggressive dogs. Since this is a livestock forum, I assume that is what you are asking about?


I suspect you are lost and meant to go to this page instead.
http://edgefieldsheep.com/bb/viewforum.php?f=3&sid=6391b9d85253a6da10449e582467aafe


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## solas4me (Apr 27, 2012)

A good guard dog would need to be aggressive if you expect him to engage someone that is trying to do you or your family harm. That does not mean that he would need to show aggressive tendencies at all times, only when it is required of him.
If you only want a good guard dog to bark as a deterrent, then they don't need to be aggressive, they just need to bark at threats or on command.

I was a LE K9 handler and have trained several dogs for many different purposes. My K9 partner (a Czech Shepherd) was like a light switch and displayed aggressive behavior when required and engaged when needed. When it wasn't needed, like lounging at home with our children, then he did not display that behavior.

There is much more to say on this topic, but that addresses the main question I think?

Justin


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## pancho (Oct 23, 2006)

I want a guard dog that will do his job when I am not around.
To do that it needs to be aggressive.
I don't want to have to tell the dog every time I want him to guard or how I want him to act.


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## RJMAcres (Sep 9, 2009)

Ours aren't aggressive until it's time to be aggressive.

They are nice and gentle to people we introduce them to.
They are nice and gentle to other animals that we introduce them and tell them to leave it be.
Any other people, dogs, coyotes, etc aren't so lucky.
Except children and small animals. Those are more inclined to just get knocked over from the
dogs getting over excited to see them.


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## Laurie J (Mar 9, 2005)

wendle said:


> I suspect you are lost and meant to go to this page instead.
> http://edgefieldsheep.com/bb/viewforum.php?f=3&sid=6391b9d85253a6da10449e582467aafe


I suspect that is a good idea. Until very recently this WAS a livestock guardian forum. Couldn't care less about mastiffs and bulldogs. What's next? Pit bulls? Later!


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## pancho (Oct 23, 2006)

Laurie J said:


> I suspect that is a good idea. Until very recently this WAS a livestock guardian forum. Couldn't care less about mastiffs and bulldogs. What's next? Pit bulls? Later!


You haven't been around long or looked at many of the posts.
Pit bulls have been some of the busiest threads on here.


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## solas4me (Apr 27, 2012)

pancho said:


> I want a guard dog that will do his job when I am not around.
> To do that it needs to be aggressive.
> I don't want to have to tell the dog every time I want him to guard or how I want him to act.


Agreed. A dog appropriately trained will do so, even when you are not around.

Justin


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## Maura (Jun 6, 2004)

The best guard dog has the ability to size up a person and situation. A person who means you no harm should not be afraid of your dog. I know many people believe that a protection dog is one that lunges at everyone, but that shows a dog who is overly cautious and often fearful. A dog that lunges at everyone and isn't fearful is hard to control. This is one reason I recommend Bouviers to people who want a good watchdog because a well bred Bouv has sense. You have a good dog in your mastiff.


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## Pops2 (Jan 27, 2003)

Laurie J said:


> I suspect that is a good idea. Until very recently this WAS a livestock guardian forum. Couldn't care less about mastiffs and bulldogs. What's next? Pit bulls? Later!


Don't be so quick, still lots of good information here.


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## mekasmom (Jan 19, 2010)

pancho said:


> You haven't been around long or looked at many of the posts.
> Pit bulls have been some of the busiest threads on here.


And that is very unfortunate. Dogs that take care of livestock are not aggressive like the dogs you like to fight. Livestock guardian dogs are not fighting dogs, nor does it matter about their "bite" or any of the other things that have been put forth in those pit threads. Livestock guardians, of all types, are not aggressive animals.
I have read that Mastiffs have been used for some livestock purposes. But they are not really LGDs. They would be more of a general farm dog that took care of the place.


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## motdaugrnds (Jul 3, 2002)

"..............*Does A Good Guard Dog Have to Be Aggressive*? .............."

Absolutely not! It does, though, need to know how to get aggressive and be trained to do so should the need arise. Many breeds can do this ON COMMAND. 

Does one want a dog to be aggressive without it being a "command"? That depends on what that dog's job is. This will be different depending on the owner's needs.

Many dogs are bred for specific responsibilities; and I believe an owner needs to take that into account BEFORE ever purchasing the dog. Expecting a dog bred for one job and expecting it do to another (going against its instincts) does not seem humane to me. If that is what an owner wants, it is that owner's responsibility for the outcome.


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## AngieM2 (May 10, 2002)

mekasmom said:


> LGDs are not aggressive dogs. Since this is a livestock forum, I assume that is what you are asking about?


 
I'm sorry - seems you forgot that this is a GUARD ANIMALS forum, and pushing it as JUST a LGD forum is way off base.

Please realign perceptions and expectations.


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## AngieM2 (May 10, 2002)

Laurie J said:


> I suspect that is a good idea. Until very recently this WAS a livestock guardian forum. Couldn't care less about mastiffs and bulldogs. What's next? Pit bulls? Later!


Another totally misconception by those that tried to make it into what they wanted it to be.

It's a GUARD ANIMALS forum. 

Many things to Guard, different types of Animals to guard them.


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## Tarheel (Jan 24, 2010)

AngieM2 said:


> Another totally misconception by those that tried to make it into what they wanted it to be.
> 
> It's a GUARD ANIMALS forum.
> 
> Many things to Guard, different types of Animals to guard them.


I have worked hard to build a farm without livestock. We are producers of fruits and vegetables (as Angie know's ) and I never thought I would see the day that we would need a guard dog........but do.

We have fenced and crossed fenced to keep predators out. The most damaging has been deer which will ruin an orchard over night. Even with fencing you need perimeter control, hence a guard animal.

By chance 3 years back I ended up with a Boykin Spaniel which for our application has become one of if not the best dog for our farm. She will walk the fence lines and keep a check, she will chase any deer, rabbits, ***** etc out of her appointed area. We have actually saw her leap in the air and catch birds that were flushed. By no means are these dogs meant for everyone but for us she's not only our guard dog but our friend.

It's nice to learn from people like Pops2 and others that are very knowledgeable about other breeds also. I can also understand that the folks that do have livestock are as concerned about their dogs to. Hopefully we can meet in the middle and all learn something together.

Life is good!


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## Pops2 (Jan 27, 2003)

mekasmom said:


> And that is very unfortunate. Dogs that take care of livestock are not aggressive like the dogs you like to fight. Livestock guardian dogs are not fighting dogs, nor does it matter about their "bite" or any of the other things that have been put forth in those pit threads. Livestock guardians, of all types, are not aggressive animals.
> I have read that Mastiffs have been used for some livestock purposes. But they are not really LGDs. They would be more of a general farm dog that took care of the place.


You are woefully mistaken. Several LGD breeds are fighting dogs in their home countries especially in Central Asia & the Middle East but also in Eastern Europe. Further since humans are the primary threat in most of those areas, LGDs from there tend to be very man aggressive. West European LGDs are the least man aggressive & that is a change that has only come about in the last century or two.


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## DaniR1968 (May 24, 2008)

I have two doberman. My husband thought they had no guarding ability at all as they greeted everyone with a smile and wiggling butts. One day my son answered the door when we were not home. He was 12 or 13. One dog stood between him and the person at the door(his scout master) and snarled. The other was right behind. I don't think there was anything wrong with the guy. I think it was because there was no adult home. 

Dogs that bark and act stupid about every person are probably not going to back it up. Dogs that are usually friendly, I would not bet on them backing down when they feel the need to protect their family. 

What my girls did, in my mind, is the perfect family protector. You need to be able to trust your dog around people for it to effectively protect you. I know several people that brag about how aggressive their dogs are. They have to put the dog outside or in another room when company comes over. What good is that if the person you have invited in turns out to be the bad guy?


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## Maura (Jun 6, 2004)

My neighbor has a boykin spaniel and I cannot imagine that dog attacking anything. She is small and very sweet. It's good to know their yard is safe from rabbits.


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## Rock (Jan 5, 2009)

*CFF to answer your question in short NO.*
in fact a good guard dog is by nature confident in their abilities. They have the tools and thought process instilled to do the job, then go back to playing with the kids.

If your dog thinks someone is a creep, TRUST THE DOG! hold the dogs collar with 1 hand while you fetch your gun with the other.
Never count on an untrained dog, not to go into self preservation mode. (I have proven this to many times, to remember, even with bulldogs & pitbulls)
My description of a good guard dog, is they are like a fireman or bouncer, they are just there hangin around most of the time, till the switch gets turned on, they go do the job, then right back to hangin around.


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## motdaugrnds (Jul 3, 2002)

I totally agree with those who give credit to the "thinking" ability of guard dogs, be them LGD strictly or family dogs. In my humble...did I say humble? ...opinion, a calm breed of any type that has the smarts (whether inherited or trained) to tell the difference between what is harmful on the premises and what is not is the BEST GUARD DOG whether it "looks" aggressive or not. And I definately don't see any benefit in having a dog around to guard the place that has to be locked up or chained when neighbors come over...simply defeats the purpose!


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## bluemoonluck (Oct 28, 2008)

I had an AmStaff who was the sweetest, gentlest dog you would ever meet. Slept under my DD's crib at night, watched over her while she played, allowed her to put stickers all over his entire body, helped me raise litters of orphaned kittens, the works.

I moved and had to have the cable guy come into my new home to set up the cable. Cosmic did NOT like this guy. He was quiet about it, but instead of lounging on the couch as he usually did, he stood between me and the cable guy. Quietly. No snarling, no show of teeth, just started at him. The man would move around the room, and Cosmic would carefully move so he was always between me and him.

Cable guy finished and went to hand me the paperwork to sign, and with the first step he took towards me Cosmic's hackles went up and he started rumbling. Cable guy  and put the paperwork down on a table behind him, and went to stand by the door so I could sign the papers, then I left them on the table and stepped back so he could retrieve them. Even after the cable guy left, Cosmic kept a good eye on the door and stuck to me like glue for a good hour or more. IDK what the issue was with that cable guy, but I don't think I wanted to find out either.

There were a few times in his life that Cosmic got like that and quietly stood between me and whatever it was that he distrusted. Now when the doorbell rang, he'd start his happy dance and bark in welcome - he LOVED people, and doorbells mean more people! - and the average Joe found this to be terrifying . If Cosmic was barking and dancing, you were fine. If he was quiet and staring you down, you'd better watch your step.

I still miss that dog


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## Maura (Jun 6, 2004)

The only dog I've ever had that bit was a big Irish Setter. He was guarding. Otherwise, a ***** cat. You just never know.


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## pancho (Oct 23, 2006)

Different people have different opinions on what they want and expect from a guard dog. Some want a dog that will bark and alert them. Some want a dog that will take out any threat that comes up.
I like my guard dogs a little different. They should be on duty 24 hours a day. They should not allow man or beast on my property. The only time they should allow another person to touch them is when they are at a dog show. They should never let another person feed them.
I don't like to carry keys so I leave my house unlocked. If anyone comes on my property and attempts to go inside my house while I am gone I expect them to be there when I get back.
My idea of a guard dog is some what different and the majority of dogs do not have what it takes to handle the job. I want to be able to trust my life and the life of my loved ones to a guard dog. Before I can do that they have to prove they can handle the job. There will be no guessing what they will do. I need to know for sure.


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## motdaugrnds (Jul 3, 2002)

Love your answer Pancho!


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## Allen W (Aug 2, 2008)

A story I heard once was a couple of guys broke out of jail and stole a farmers pick up. When the farmer asked how they got past his dogs the answer was a big stick and an aggressive attitude. Most times a dog is more intimidating then he is mean.


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## pancho (Oct 23, 2006)

Several years ago i had some people come look at my dogs.
After looking them over one of the men told me that he had never seen a dog that he couldn't handle. According to him all he had to do is take his hat off, wave it in front of him and run at the dog making a loud noise. It had worked every time he tried it.
He asked what would my dogs do if he did that. I told him to pick the dog and try it himself.
At that time I had a small female on a chain while I was re doing her run. He decided he would try her. A couple of the people knew my dogs so we stood back to watch the fun. The man made his run and the dog met him halfway. As soon as she took his hat he made a run for a tree. He couldn't understand why it didn't work.
Then he asked me to get his hat. I pointed out where he left his hat and he was free to go and get it anytime he wanted.
That little female
really enjoyed playing with that hat.


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## motdaugrnds (Jul 3, 2002)

HaHaHaHa .... I love stories like that! Thanks for sharing Pancho....I can just see that little dog playing with that man's hat while he watched shivering in his boots!


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