# Collection of stories of Healthcare providers resigning



## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

LOWVILLE, New York (WWNY) - Lewis County General Hospital will stop delivering babies after September 24 because too many maternity unit workers have resigned over COVID vaccination mandates.

That’s according to Lewis County Health System Chief Executive Officer Gerald Cayer, who held a news conference Friday in Lowville.

He said 6 employees in the maternity unit resigned rather than get a COVID shot and another 7 are undecided.









Hospital to stop delivering babies as maternity workers resign over vaccine mandate


Lewis County General Hospital will stop delivering babies after September 24 because too many maternity unit workers have resigned over COVID vaccination mandates.




www.wwnytv.com


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

Is it a trend?

Post stories if you see them


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

Mississippi now has at least 2,000 fewer nurses than it did at the beginning of the year, according to the Mississippi Hospital Association's Center for Quality & Workforce. The staff shortages add to the growing strain on the state's hospital system -- both due, in large part, to the Covid-19 pandemic.

When asked if the health care system is reaching a breaking point, Singing River Nursing Manager for Personal Care Buddy Gager said, "I think we already broke."








'I think we already broke': Mississippi's nurses are resigning to protect themselves from Covid-19 burnout | CNN


Earlier this month, Mississippi ICU nurse Nichole Atherton resigned, worn down by the stress, young patients and preventable deaths that have overwhelmed the state's hospitals during the Covid-19 pandemic.




www.cnn.com


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## RJ2019 (Aug 27, 2019)

A hostpital south of here is losing half their maternity nurses.
Play stupid games, win stupid prizes. Our healthcare system in the US is basically robbery anyway so maybe a collapse is doing us all a favor in the long run.


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## barnbilder (Jul 1, 2005)

Hillary destroyed the health care industry in the nineties. HMOs, networks, all designed to fail, so they could usher in universal healthcare. Then came Obamacare. It was supposed to be her, but Obama happened, she agreed to step aside, but only so she could fix obamacare. Then Trump happened and ruined her plans. Covid is likely part of an impetus to fix a system that was broken by those who continually break things so they can be the hero. Their only saving grace has been aging boomers needing more healthcare.

There are probably a lot of people in the healthcare industry who can see the writing on the wall. Tons of people in school training for the health care industry. When the boomers die, the xers are a fraction of the previous generation, and with health care being the leading industry, many will be left jobless in ten years or so It is pretty clear that anyone who stays in is going to be a political pawn for some time to come. Step out and develop a new skill has been a good idea for a while now, but with the current trend, it seems like an easier conclusion to come to for many.


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## Pony (Jan 6, 2003)

Looking for report of a protest/walk-out in OH last week. 

Has anyone seen anything about it?


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## Alice In TX/MO (May 10, 2002)

Several doctors have expressed to me their disgust with the system. Some retired. Some don't take ANY insurance at all; you have to file claims yourself.

I don't know anymore what the answer is. I know healthcare is too expensive for regular folks. Insurance is too expensive for self employed and small businesses.

My friends in Germany have universal healthcare with a supplement private insurance so that they get better/complete care.


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## Alice In TX/MO (May 10, 2002)

Walk out, not resignation.









Alabama coal miners on strike, nurses and students walk out


Centreville, Ala. Sept. 12 — At the beginning of July, Alabama’s vaccination rate was the lowest among U.S. states, with only 34% of its people fully vaxxed. Now the state has been hit by the more contagious delta variant. Hospitalizations have risen five-fold in the last two months. On Sept.




www.workers.org


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## Alice In TX/MO (May 10, 2002)

In an tangential development, there was a "false" article about Air Force pilots resigning. Currently, it isn't true. The military folks I know are working on the process to be exempt.


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## Alice In TX/MO (May 10, 2002)

11 employees at Olean General Hospital resign over vaccine mandate


Effective September 27, New York will require all hospital and nursing home workers to be vaccinated against COVID-19 or face losing their jobs.




www.wgrz.com


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## wr (Aug 10, 2003)

It's not that I don't feel the vaccinations are helpful but I've strongly maintained that pushing people to accept the vaccinations is going to fail badly in the long run. 

People will only be pushed for a while before they either dig in or start pushing back.


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## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

If they are digging in because they are being pushed then they were never going to get the vaccine anyways. You either trust that the good the vaccine does outweighs the bad by now or it might take someone close to deaths to change your mind.


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## Alice In TX/MO (May 10, 2002)

Or they keep fighting for freedom, requiring that the government follows the Constitution, and demanding that the injections be properly researched.

It's going to be a long legal fight.








Judge blocks New York from imposing vaccine mandate on medical workers


Health care workers' Constitutional rights were violated because state order barred religious exemption, court rules.




www.cbsnews.com





Someone dying isn't motivation to throw out the points mentioned above. 

You really think those nurses haven't had "someone close" to them die?


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## GTX63 (Dec 13, 2016)

Sure some would. I know people who will do something simply because they were told not to. It is the "wet paint" type.
However, trusting the oil when the snake is a liar might be considered dumb.
And someone may die near and dear to us; doesn't mean the vaccine would have made a bit of difference.


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## no really (Aug 7, 2013)

The push back is going to get worse, when illegals and congress are exempt from mandates it makes many question why some are not included. The optics are starting to look really bad.


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## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

The vaccines are proven to reduce deaths. The vaccines might not save everyone but they save many.


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## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

no really said:


> The push back is going to get worse, when illegals and congress are exempt from mandates it makes many question why some are not included. The optics are starting to look really bad.


Another stupid reason to not get the vaccine.

I have no problem with pushing back through the courts or just not getting vaccinated. I just believe that pushing back because you are pushed and not because you don't trust the vaccine it's is not a good reason.


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## GunMonkeyIntl (May 13, 2013)

Alice In TX/MO said:


> Several doctors have expressed to me their disgust with the system. Some retired. Some don't take ANY insurance at all; you have to file claims yourself.
> 
> I don't know anymore what the answer is. I know healthcare is too expensive for regular folks. Insurance is too expensive for self employed and small businesses.
> 
> My friends in Germany have universal healthcare with a supplement private insurance so that they get better/complete care.


I may be coming around on universal healthcare. Working for a European company, I’ve had the opportunity to have some very apples-to-apples comparative discussions with colleagues who live with UHC. 

My inner libertarian still recoils at the thought, and I realistically accept (unlike most of the proponents here) that open borders in a country with the world’s unbacked, reserve currency complicates the situation for us, but I do see the merit in the idea.

Unfortunately, I’m doubtful we’ll ever be able to make the ideo-political compromises to make it workable in the US.. prior to going one-world government, at least.


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## no really (Aug 7, 2013)

painterswife said:


> Another stupid reason to not get the vaccine.
> 
> I have no problem with pushing back through the courts or just not getting vaccinated. I just believe that pushing back because you are pushed and not because you don't trust the vaccine it's is not a good reason.


If the vaccine is that important why are these groups exempt?


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## GTX63 (Dec 13, 2016)

Not trusting a person or product is an excellent reason and probably the primary reason for one's own personal decision.


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## Alice In TX/MO (May 10, 2002)

Just because a person on this forum thinks other peoples' reasons are stupid doesn't mean they are. It means she hasn't walked in their moccasins. It means she thinks her reasoning is better than anyone else's.


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## MoonRiver (Sep 2, 2007)

GunMonkeyIntl said:


> I may be coming around on universal healthcare. Working for a European company, I’ve had the opportunity to have some very apples-to-apples comparative discussions with colleagues who live with UHC.
> 
> My inner libertarian still recoils at the thought, and I realistically accept (unlike most of the proponents here) that open borders in a country with the world’s unbacked, reserve currency complicates the situation for us, but I do see the merit in the idea.
> 
> Unfortunately, I’m doubtful we’ll ever be able to make the ideo-political compromises to make it workable in the US.. prior to going one-world government, at least.


Could universal healthcare work in these countries if the US joined in? Where would the rich people go for treatment? What would Canadians do?


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## GTX63 (Dec 13, 2016)

Alice In TX/MO said:


> Just because a person on this forum thinks other peoples' reasons are stupid doesn't mean they are. It means she hasn't walked in their moccasins. It means she thinks her reasoning is better than anyone else's.


I dislike labels, however a classic liberal line of reasoning is that you are stupid and they know better than you, regardless whether it is your own business, whether they know you or have even met you.
They know better than you what is right for you.


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## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

no really said:


> If the vaccine is that important why are these groups exempt?


The same reason reason that work mandates for only companies with 100 or more emplo were given the choice of vaccine or testing. The convoluted laws because of federal a state jurisdiction.


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

GunMonkeyIntl said:


> I may be coming around on universal healthcare. Working for a European company, I’ve had the opportunity to have some very apples-to-apples comparative discussions with colleagues who live with UHC.


The idealist in me is for it. The realist in me is against it.

Every program out of DC has one goal - Make as many donors as possible rich, while the politician takes a taste for themselves.


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## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

I said it was a stupid reason not that anyone was stupid.


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## Alice In TX/MO (May 10, 2002)

You just confirmed my suspicions. Please re-read what I wrote. Sigh.


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## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

Alice In TX/MO said:


> You just confirmed my suspicions. Please re-read what I wrote. Sigh.


I did not respond to your post.


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## no really (Aug 7, 2013)

painterswife said:


> The same
> The same reason reason that work mandates for only companies with 100 or more emplo were given the choice of vaccine or testing. The convoluted laws because of federal a state jurisdiction.


Seems sensible to allow thousands of illegals to enter and travel to all areas of the US with positive covid tests and no vaccinations, when the legal citizens are being pressured in many ways to take the jab. 

As to congress and their staff, they are supposedly to set a good example for the nation, seems they are special. The military must take the vax so should congress. Common sense is missing in the mandates.


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## Alice In TX/MO (May 10, 2002)

"I said it was a stupid reason not that anyone was stupid."


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## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

no really said:


> Seems sensible to allow thousands of illegals to enter and travel to all areas of the US with positive covid tests and no vaccinations, when the legal citizens are being pressured in many ways to take the jab.
> 
> As to congress and their staff, they are supposedly to set a good example for the nation, seems they are special. The military must take the vax so should congress. Common sense is missing in the mandates.


I believe every person crossing the boarder should be vaccinated. No matter who they are, Citizens, tourists or immigrants ( legal or illegal).


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## wr (Aug 10, 2003)

painterswife said:


> Another stupid reason to not get the vaccine.
> 
> I have no problem with pushing back through the courts or just not getting vaccinated. I just believe that pushing back because you are pushed and not because you don't trust the vaccine it's is not a good reason.


The problem is that people have been fed misinformation, which has brought on greater mistrust and they are pushing back. We're seeing medical professionals quit their jobs at a time when we need them because they don't want to be pushed.

Right now a lot of them are feeling let down, they went from hero to zero in under a year.


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## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

wr said:


> The problem is that people have been fed misinformation, which has brought on greater mistrust and they are pushing back. We're seeing medical professionals quit their jobs at a time when we need them because they don't want to be pushed.
> 
> Right now a lot of them are feeling let down, they went from hero to zero in under a year.


I have tendered my resignation because I did not want to do something I believed was wrong. I just don't believe that making a medical decision solely because you were being pushed is sound reasoning. You choose not to because it is the right medical decision.


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## wr (Aug 10, 2003)

GunMonkeyIntl said:


> I may be coming around on universal healthcare. Working for a European company, I’ve had the opportunity to have some very apples-to-apples comparative discussions with colleagues who live with UHC.
> 
> My inner libertarian still recoils at the thought, and I realistically accept (unlike most of the proponents here) that open borders in a country with the world’s unbacked, reserve currency complicates the situation for us, but I do see the merit in the idea.
> 
> Unfortunately, I’m doubtful we’ll ever be able to make the ideo-political compromises to make it workable in the US.. prior to going one-world government, at least.


Our system works well for us and Canadians always been happy to answer questions but it usually ends up with someone believing that because we answer questions that we're trying to force our opinions on others, someone becomes defensive and the rest is history.


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## wr (Aug 10, 2003)

painterswife said:


> I have tendered my resignation because I did not want to do something I believed was wrong. I just don't believe that making a medical decision solely because you were being pushed is sound reasoning. You choose not to because it is the right medical decision.


Those that are refusing believe their reasons are valid as well. The problem is that they may very well feel their reasons for quitting are as valid as you felt yours were. 

How many times do you feel the mandatory vaccination routine is going to hold water? If we look at Isreal, we could be facing mandatory vaccination #4 and possibly more. 

At some point, we're going to need to prove to the dissenters that vaccinations are working, while forcing them to take more and more mandatory vaccinations that seemingly aren't doing what they were told it was going to do.


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## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

wr said:


> Those that are refusing believe their reasons are valid as well. The problem is that they may very well feel their reasons for quitting are as valid as you felt yours were.
> 
> How many times do you feel the mandatory vaccination routine is going to hold water? If we look at Isreal, we could be facing mandatory vaccination #4 and possibly more.
> 
> At some point, we're going to need to prove to the dissenters that vaccinations are working, while forcing them to take more and more mandatory vaccinations that seemingly aren't doing what they were told it was going to do.


I spoke to refusing a vaccine because you were pushed and not medical reasons, and only that. I am not going off on your tangent.


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## wr (Aug 10, 2003)

painterswife said:


> I spoke to refusing a vaccine because you were pushed and not medical reasons, and only that. I am not going off on your tangent.


Lol, I think I spoke to refusing the vaccine for non medical reasons and I was pretty sure you wouldn't have a response. Just eat the peas.


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## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

wr said:


> Lol, I think I spoke to refusing the vaccine for non medical reasons and I was pretty sure you wouldn't have a response. Just eat the peas.


Simply because refusing for non medical reasons is a choice that I don't think is logical.


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## wr (Aug 10, 2003)

painterswife said:


> Simply because refusing for non medical reasons is a choice that I don't think is logical.


I understand it may not make sense to you but not everybody has the same opinions and values and that's my whole point. 

If we're not prepared to listen to why others don't want to vaccinate, we don't stand much chance of changing their mind.


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## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

wr said:


> I understand it may not make sense to you but not everybody has the same opinions and values and that's my whole point.
> 
> If we're not prepared to listen to why others don't want to vaccinate, we don't stand much chance of changing their mind.


I listen to their reasons lots. I just don't always comment on them. I stated my opinion quite clearly. I could go on and on to every post that I think is misguided but I don't find that productive. If someone is not getting vaccinated for other than medical reasons then me responding to every situation you post or they post will not change their minds. Therefore I choose when I want to express my opinion and when I believe it will be a waste of time. Then you get make a running joke at my expense and prove it.


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## wr (Aug 10, 2003)

painterswife said:


> I listen to their reasons lots. I just don't always comment on them. I stated my opinion quite clearly. I could go on and on to every post that I think is misguided but I don't find that productive. If someone is not getting vaccinated for other than medical reasons then me responding to every situation you post or they post will not change their minds. Therefore I choose when I want to express my opinion and when I believe it will be a waste of time. Then you get make a running joke at my expense and prove it.


Running joke? I was just affirming your statement and that's a big part of the problem. 

If agressive pro vaxxers believe that anyone who doesn't see things their way, is nothing more than an errant toddler, there is not much chance of changing anybody's mind.


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## Danaus29 (Sep 12, 2005)

painterswife said:


> Another stupid reason to not get the vaccine.
> 
> I have no problem with pushing back through the courts or just not getting vaccinated. I just believe that pushing back because you are pushed and not because you don't trust the vaccine it's is not a good reason.


My mom spent a whole week thinking she was going to die after she got the vaccine. I don't trust that it won't do the same to me. Even when I was sick with presumed covid I wasn't so bad that I thought I was going to die. Even though I took lots of naps I still had enough energy to cook easy meals. My mom couldn't even make a cup of tea without almost passing out.

Will the vaccine kill my immunity from having had covid? That is a question that has not been answered. From the increasing numbers of people who have beat covid only to get it again after getting the shot, it seems like a real possibility. 

I don't care if you think they are stupid reasons. That is what keeps me from getting the shot. The more I am told, "your baseless concerns are irrelevant. Just get the shot", the more I am going to resist. 

VAERS needs to be easier to access. They and the CDC are hiding the true number of adverse reactions.


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## barnbilder (Jul 1, 2005)

Wonder what kind of things health care workers have seen that make them distrust safety claims for the vaccine.


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## Danaus29 (Sep 12, 2005)

barnbilder said:


> Wonder what kind of things health care workers have seen that make them distrust safety claims for the vaccine.


Especially since they were at the head of the line to get vaccinated.


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## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

[/QUOTE]


Danaus29 said:


> My mom spent a whole week thinking she was going to die after she got the vaccine. I don't trust that it won't do the same to me. Even when I was sick with presumed covid I wasn't so bad that I thought I was going to die. Even though I took lots of naps I still had enough energy to cook easy meals. My mom couldn't even make a cup of tea without almost passing out.
> 
> Will the vaccine kill my immunity from having had covid? That is a question that has not been answered. From the increasing numbers of people who have beat covid only to get it again after getting the shot, it seems like a real possibility.
> 
> ...


I don't think those are stupid reasons. Those are medical reasons. You are not resisting for the sake of resistance.


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## Redlands Okie (Nov 28, 2017)

So many medical people quitting good paying jobs is a attention getter. Keep in mind that the senate and house and their workers are NOT required to get the vaccine as of last September. Many have, but they are not required to. Gets my curiosity up. 
Biden and Fauci saying in public that they will continue with more mandates and other methods to force people to get a vaccine shot just makes it a bigger mess.

And all of this for a problem that seriously affects such a small percentage of people.


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## Alice In TX/MO (May 10, 2002)

I know of NO HUMANS who are declining the injections simply because they enjoy resisting.


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## Danaus29 (Sep 12, 2005)

I don't think those are stupid reasons. Those are medical reasons. You are not resisting for the sake of resistance.
[/QUOTE]

Unfortunately my son who was incapacitated for 3 days and left with brain fog for a week after getting the shot, thinks I am stupid and will soon die from covid.


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## GTX63 (Dec 13, 2016)

This is beginning to sound like a new religion.


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

GTX63 said:


> This is beginning to sound like a new religion.


It is a denomination


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## GunMonkeyIntl (May 13, 2013)

GTX63 said:


> This is beginning to sound like a new religion.


Not new. The Church of Science! has been fleecing devotees for generations. The Immaculation of Saint Fauci of Deesisi has just spurred something of a revivalist fuhrer furor.


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## GTX63 (Dec 13, 2016)

With some of them, not all, it is beginning to feel like their religion is being shoved down our throats. Vax Thumpers maybe.


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## GTX63 (Dec 13, 2016)

The Minister of Plenty has 3.5 more trillion flying thru the air to solve problems we never had before.


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## GunMonkeyIntl (May 13, 2013)

MoonRiver said:


> Could universal healthcare work in these countries if the US joined in? Where would the rich people go for treatment? What would Canadians do?





HDRider said:


> The idealist in me is for it. The realist in me is against it.
> 
> Every program out of DC has one goal - Make as many donors as possible rich, while the politician takes a taste for themselves.
> 
> View attachment 99864


I really do think it could work in the US, but there are some political compromises that would have to be made. It’s economically infeasible here because of our lack of enforcement of immigration law. Unfortunately, the side that is for UHC is also for open borders. The two, together, would wreck our currency completely, and take the rest of the world down with it.

If, though, that side we’re willing to compromise and get serious about immigration law, and both sides would get serious about reducing ridiculous foreign aid, we could have UHC here. The problem is that the other side doesn’t want UHC, so they’re not willing to spend the political capital to force the compromise. So, in the meantime, we get unsecured borders, a healthcare system that is out of reach for many of our people, and we get to send billions of dollars to our enemies. 
Awesome.


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## Alice In TX/MO (May 10, 2002)

I love the smell of sarcasm in the morning.


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## GTX63 (Dec 13, 2016)

It is sweet isn't it, like caramel in your coffee.
It beats the pissnvinegar some folks wake up with every morning.


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## Pony (Jan 6, 2003)

GTX63 said:


> This is beginning to sound like a new religion.


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## wr (Aug 10, 2003)

Alice In TX/MO said:


> I know of NO HUMANS who are declining the injections simply because they enjoy resisting.


If nobody will listen to the reasons people have for not vaccinating, there is no opportunity for constructive discussion.


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## GunMonkeyIntl (May 13, 2013)

wr said:


> If nobody will listen to the reasons people have for not vaccinating, there is no opportunity for constructive discussion.


When someone has decided they are the arbiter of worthiness for anyone else’s reason, that person’s ship of constructive-discussion has already sailed.


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## wr (Aug 10, 2003)

GunMonkeyIntl said:


> When someone has decided they are the arbiter of worthiness for anyone else’s reason, that person’s ship of constructive-discussion has already sailed.


I don't think they really care if someone else approves of their opinion or their worthiness.


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## Forcast (Apr 15, 2014)




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## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

They have a right to say no. They don't have a right to employment, if they don't meet the company's terms.


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## Farmerga (May 6, 2010)

painterswife said:


> They have a right to say no. They don't have a right to employment, if they don't meet the company's terms.


"I am altering the deal. Pray I do not alter it any further" Darth Vader.


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## GunMonkeyIntl (May 13, 2013)

Farmerga said:


> "I am altering the deal. Pray I do not alter it any further" Darth Vader.


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## GunMonkeyIntl (May 13, 2013)

If there was still any question left that any of this has any more than precisely ****-all to do with science, the Raleigh, NC diocese of the _Church of Science!_(tm) has issued a gospel decreeing that those who refuse the Kool-Aid aren’t righteous enough to merit consideration for promotion.



https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.newsobserver.com/news/local/counties/wake-county/article254258088.html



Seriously. If, at this point, you’re still believing a single thing the King’s Science!men have to say about this ****show, there is nothing anyone can say to save you.

May the holy dumpster-fire forever keep you warm, and the odds be ever in your favor.


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## Alice In TX/MO (May 10, 2002)




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## GunMonkeyIntl (May 13, 2013)




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## Alice In TX/MO (May 10, 2002)

Pretty much there. I went to a concert this evening in an event center in Austin. Perhaps 5% of the audience wore masks. The staff was required to wear masks.


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## boatswain2PA (Feb 13, 2020)

Danaus29 said:


> Will the vaccine kill my immunity from having had covid? That is a question that has not been answered.


Will the vaccine act as a tracking beacon for aliens to find you when they invade? That is also a question that has not been answered either.

Of course, there is absolutely to reason to think the answer to either of these questions is yes, which is why they have not been studied.

I DO think there is very good reason for you NOT to get the vaccine if you definitively had covid, especially if you have proven antibodies from said infection.


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

Danaus29 said:


> Will the vaccine kill my immunity from having had covid? That is a question that has not been answered. From the increasing numbers of people who have beat covid only to get it again after getting the shot, it seems like a real possibility.





boatswain2PA said:


> Will the vaccine act as a tracking beacon for aliens to find you when they invade? That is also a question that has not been answered either.



That was very legitimate question. One that has been obfuscated to no end.


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## Alice In TX/MO (May 10, 2002)




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## Danaus29 (Sep 12, 2005)

boatswain2PA said:


> Will the vaccine act as a tracking beacon for aliens to find you when they invade? That is also a question that has not been answered either.
> 
> Of course, there is absolutely to reason to think the answer to either of these questions is yes, which is why they have not been studied.
> 
> I DO think there is very good reason for you NOT to get the vaccine if you definitively had covid, especially if you have proven antibodies from said infection.


And answers like that are why people are refusing to get the shot.


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## boatswain2PA (Feb 13, 2020)

Danaus29 said:


> And answers like that are why people are refusing to get the shot.


Questions like you ask are reasons why unreasonable people don't get the vaccine. There is no scientific theory about the vaccine somehow canceling your and made her teeth that you developed after an infection. There's just no way for that to happen. It is about as likely as the vaccine being a tracker for aliens.

There are lots of reasons to question the vaccine. Probably the best question is why are we forcing vaccines on people who have already had covid? Other great questions or do we need to vaccinate the young and healthy with very low risk profiles to the disease? Or, should people who have family members who have had moderate to severe reactions to the vaccine, should those people get vaccinated? Those are all legitimate question.


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## barnbilder (Jul 1, 2005)

boatswain2PA said:


> Will the vaccine act as a tracking beacon for aliens to find you when they invade? That is also a question that has not been answered either.
> 
> Of course, there is absolutely to reason to think the answer to either of these questions is yes, which is why they have not been studied.
> 
> I DO think there is very good reason for you NOT to get the vaccine if you definitively had covid, especially if you have proven antibodies from said infection.


How dare they question the omnipotent godlike authority that comes from being a random person on the internet that claims to have experience in the field of discussion.


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## boatswain2PA (Feb 13, 2020)

barnbilder said:


> How dare they question the omnipotent godlike authority that comes from being a random person on the internet that claims to have experience in the field of discussion.


Absolutely? Those aliens could track anything. Let's all put on our tin foil hats to protect ourselves from the aliens canceling out our innate immune system. Covid-19 is created by aliens to take control of politics.

There's lots of problems with the vaccine in politics. But we can't have reasonable discussion about it if we going to unreasonable things like the vaccine canceling out the natural immunity development after being infected. There is just no mechanism for that to happen.


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## Danaus29 (Sep 12, 2005)

It is a valid question, it would have been very easy to study. A number of people who have recovered from covid, get vaccinated, then get covid again. 

The problem is that TPTB have mandated that everyone get the vaccine without asking *IF* everyone should get the vaccine.

6 months ago questions regarding the longevity of the vaccines was poo-pooed too.


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## Danaus29 (Sep 12, 2005)

Care to explain _*WHY*_ the mRNA can't cause your immune system to target existing antibodies? In laymans terms please.


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## Alice In TX/MO (May 10, 2002)




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## GunMonkeyIntl (May 13, 2013)

boatswain2PA said:


> Questions like you ask are reasons why unreasonable people don't get the vaccine. There is no scientific theory about the vaccine somehow canceling your and made her teeth that you developed after an infection. There's just no way for that to happen. It is about as likely as the vaccine being a tracker for aliens.


Really, Doctor? I know the _Church of The Science!_(tm) evangelicals like to stick to the latest gospel according to St. Fauci, but there have been actual, scientifically considered indications that Fauci’s Blessed Ouchi may retard natural immune responses.









Research suggests Pfizer-BioNTech COVID-19 vaccine reprograms innate immune responses


Researchers in The Netherlands have warned that Pfizer-BioNTech’s coronavirus disease 2019 (COVID-19) vaccine induces complex reprogramming of innate immune responses that should be considered in the development and use of mRNA-based vaccines.




www.news-medical.net





So, if they really are of the same validity, let’s see your link for the vaccine possibly being a tracker for aliens. Or were you just trying to condescend someone who doesn’t have the same faith in The Church that you do?


----------



## wr (Aug 10, 2003)

boatswain2PA said:


> I DO think there is very good reason for you NOT to get the vaccine if you definitively had covid, especially if you have proven antibodies from said infection.


Unfortunately, there seems to be no interest in giving anyone a pass on the vaccine even if we have proven antibodies.


----------



## boatswain2PA (Feb 13, 2020)

Danaus29 said:


> It is a valid question, it would have been very easy to study.


I'm not sure it would be easy to study. To appropriately study this one would have to come up with a mechanism (how would the mrna somehow produce an anti-antibody protein instead of a protein that triggers an antibody response), and then would have to include enough post-covid and immunized people that show a reduction in antibody titers greater than that of baseline numbers.....which I dont think we even have yet.


Danaus29 said:


> A number of people who have recovered from covid, get vaccinated, then get covid again.


Lots of people dont mount an antibody response to many things. Coronavirus' are notorious for this before Covid (possibly why this was used in the gain of function testing).



Danaus29 said:


> The problem is that TPTB have mandated that everyone get the vaccine without asking *IF* everyone should get the vaccine.


Concur



Danaus29 said:


> 6 months ago questions regarding the longevity of the vaccines was poo-pooed too


Not by me or many others. This is a coronavirus, well known for people to rapidly lose immunity to. However our political masters certainly overpromised.



Danaus29 said:


> Care to explain _*WHY*_ the mRNA can't cause your immune system to target existing antibodies? In laymans terms please.


Think of mrna as the computer code for a milling machine. The vaccine gives a computer code for the milling machine to produce a screw. Why would you expect the milling machine to suddenly start producing hammers?

The MRNA tells our muscle cells to produce a new strand of protein that is so foreign to our body that it makes an antibody against. And this new protein strand is identical to a surface protein on covid, so our newly created antibodies latch onto that and our immune system then eats it.

So for an MRNA vaccine to do what you are proposing (start making hammers instead of the screws they were programmed to make) something would have to change their programming.


----------



## boatswain2PA (Feb 13, 2020)

GunMonkeyIntl said:


> but there have been actual, scientifically considered indications that Fauci’s Blessed Ouchi may retard natural immune responses.


Dont have time to read this in full right now. Wouldnt surprise me if one immune reaction could retard another immune reaction. However the specific statement that the covid vaccine can reduce your post-covid immunity has no basis in current reality.

Could it change? Yeah, and aliens could be enroute.


----------



## barnbilder (Jul 1, 2005)

Pretty presumptive to assume that we are the only life forms in the universe, and that at some juncture they may visit. That isn't a very good illustration to explain that faucci didn't create the vaccine's ability to inhibit natural immunity while he was creating the disease.


----------



## mreynolds (Jan 1, 2015)

boatswain2PA said:


> Will the vaccine act as a tracking beacon for aliens to find you when they invade? That is also a question that has not been answered either.
> 
> Of course, there is absolutely to reason to think the answer to either of these questions is yes, which is why they have not been studied.
> 
> I DO think there is very good reason for you NOT to get the vaccine if you definitively had covid, especially if you have proven antibodies from said infection.


Only for those that didn't get the alien tracking injection at birth.


----------



## mreynolds (Jan 1, 2015)

boatswain2PA said:


> Yeah, and aliens could be enroute.


We are already here.


----------



## boatswain2PA (Feb 13, 2020)

barnbilder said:


> Pretty presumptive to assume that we are the only life forms in the universe, and that at some juncture they may visit. That isn't a very good illustration to explain that faucci didn't create the vaccine's ability to inhibit natural immunity while he was creating the disease.


You are ignoring the most alarming part of the story! Fauci IS the alien! He is the elite alien soldier, sent in before the invading alien army to soften us all up so they can probe all right wing anti-vaxxers.

Get real folks....


----------



## Danaus29 (Sep 12, 2005)

Oh puh-leazeee! Fauci was sent to find out how many alien squadrons will be needed to control the non-compliant earthlings. The real probing will be done on the good little followers because it's "for their own good".

(sarcasm, just in case someone doesn't realize that)


----------



## Pony (Jan 6, 2003)

boatswain2PA said:


> Questions like you ask are *reasons why unreasonable people don't get the vaccine*. There is no scientific theory about the vaccine somehow canceling your and made her teeth that you developed after an infection. There's just no way for that to happen. It is about as likely as the vaccine being a tracker for aliens.


Who is the arbiter of what is reasonable and unreasonable?

ETA: It does not matter whether a person is considered reasonable or unreasonable.

The fact of the matter is, as free people with unalienable rights conferred on us by our Creator, we can say no, and there is no law that says we can be forced to allow someone to inject ANYTHING into our bodies. AND we do not have to give a reason or explain ourselves to your or anyone else's satisfaction.

Period.


----------



## GunMonkeyIntl (May 13, 2013)

boatswain2PA said:


> Dont have time to read this in full right now. Wouldnt surprise me if one immune reaction could retard another immune reaction. However the specific statement that the covid vaccine can reduce your post-covid immunity has no basis in current reality.
> 
> Could it change? Yeah, and aliens could be enroute.


That’s exactly what the study said. Granted, it was not presented as decisive evidence, but it was a compelling indication that a Covid vaccine could retard a body’s natural immunity. This has been a point of discussion and one that, like Alice pointed out, has had a cloud of obfuscation around it.

So, it is a reasonable question/concern for one to have, as did Danaus.

Got anything showing how the concern that the vaccine is a tracking device for aliens is “equally reasonable” yet? (_Hint: I know you don’t, but maybe (just maaaybe) you’ll realize that it’s people like you making it impossible to have a reasonable discussion about this virus and what we should be doing about it._)


----------



## Danaus29 (Sep 12, 2005)

It's already been proven that the needle used is too small to be used to implant microchips.





__





How do we know that COVID-19 vaccines are not being used to inject tracking chips?


May 10, 2021 by Health Desk – No, COVID-19 vaccines are not being used to inject tracking chips. Health organizations, national health and drug regulatory agencies, and disease control centers would not approve vaccines that secretly track patients without their consent. For COVID-19 vaccines...




health-desk.org





I find it hillarious that people worried about tracking chips have no problem carrying a cell phone with the locator feature turned on.

What I don't understand is that time and research was taken to prove this wrong but not one bit of research time or money was spent to track how long the natural antibodies last. And not one bit of time or money is being spent, in North America, to develop a vaccine that works like our old-fashioned flu vaccines. And no time or effort is being used to find out *WHY* people are refusing to accept an experimental vaccine.


----------



## Alice In TX/MO (May 10, 2002)

Too many erroneous statements to address. Hyperbole. Sweeping generalizations.


----------



## Fieldsendart (Jan 25, 2021)

Alice In TX/MO said:


> Several doctors have expressed to me their disgust with the system. Some retired. Some don't take ANY insurance at all; you have to file claims yourself.
> 
> I don't know anymore what the answer is. I know healthcare is too expensive for regular folks. Insurance is too expensive for self employed and small businesses.
> 
> My friends in Germany have universal healthcare with a supplement private insurance so that they get better/complete care.


Anything the Government handles ends in a disaster. Including healthcare. Look at the chaos in this country — it’s been caused by the Government — you really want those fools handling your healthcare???


----------



## B&L Chicken Ranch and Spa (Jan 4, 2019)

painterswife said:


> If they are digging in because they are being pushed then they were never going to get the vaccine anyways. You either trust that the good the vaccine does outweighs the bad by now or it might take someone close to deaths to change your mind.


but it isn't even a vaccine, but it is mandated by politicians and fascists.


----------



## B&L Chicken Ranch and Spa (Jan 4, 2019)

painterswife said:


> The vaccines are proven to reduce deaths. The vaccines might not save everyone but they save many.


and the jab creates variants that infect others who had been immune.


----------



## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

The "it isn't a vaccine" is getting old and so false.


----------



## B&L Chicken Ranch and Spa (Jan 4, 2019)

painterswife said:


> The "it isn't a vaccine" is getting old and so false.


I feel bad for your Dog.


----------



## boatswain2PA (Feb 13, 2020)

GunMonkeyIntl said:


> but it was a compelling indication that a Covid vaccine could retard a body’s natural immunity.


Retarding our natural immunity is different from Danaeus post that, I believe, said the vaccine destroyed the natural antibodies built after an infection. I don't see any mechanism where that could happen.





Danaus29 said:


> What I don't understand is that time and research was taken to prove this wrong but not one bit of research time or money was spent to track how long the natural antibodies last.


Think hard about this.....what would be the BEST way to study how LONG something last??

Maybe.....by looking at how long they last? 

How long ago did the first person get covid? Less than 24 months ago.

There are LOTS of people studying how long the natural antibodies will last. Of course we are all different, with some people quickly losing their antibodies, and some people potentially having eternal antibodies, but eventually we will come up with an average length of duration.




Danaus29 said:


> And not one bit of time or money is being spent, in North America, to develop a vaccine that works like our old-fashioned flu vaccines.


You know there isn't anyone spending time or money doing this? 

My limited understanding here is coronavirus surface antigens are very humanesque, so very difficult to create a traditional vaccine that would not have devastating side effects to us. This is why we focused on the spike protein which is very unnatural.



Danaus29 said:


> And no time or effort is being used to find out *WHY* people are refusing to accept an experimental vaccine.


Most reasonable people I ask about this say they just haven't gotten it YET because they just don't know what to believe. Too many crazies screaming from the left about how you are evil if you haven't gotten it yet, and too many crazies on the right screaming that it's a poison that is going to make you infertile, knock out your immune system, alien tracking device, or set you up to be taken out by the next china virus (etc ad nauseum).


----------



## Danaus29 (Sep 12, 2005)

Retarding, destroying, whatever. Can you point to one study where they have looked at the effect of the "vaccine" on natural antibodies?

Longevity studies that I have found results for, were done for the purpose of pushing a single dose of the mRNA therapy. Like this study here;



https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jama/fullarticle/2782139



Are traditional vaccines being developed and studied in the US.? Show me the info if you have any? Novavax has been put on the back burner since the FDA approval of the Pfizer vaccine.









The mRNA Vaccines Are Extraordinary, but Novavax Is Even Better


Persistent hype around mRNA vaccine technology is now distracting us from other ways to end the pandemic.




www.theatlantic.com





A lot of people are vaccine hesitant because of all the misleading information from both sides. Who can you trust? A lot of people are vaccine hesitant because they don't want to get sick and miss work for a "vaccine" when they can still get covid and miss work again. Those quarantine sessions really eat up vacation time, for those who can take vacation.


----------



## boatswain2PA (Feb 13, 2020)

Danaus29 said:


> Retarding, destroying, whatever. Can you point to one study where they have looked at the effect of the "vaccine" on natural antibodies?


I doubt there are any. Studies are usually done to prove/disprove a theory that is considered reasonable. There is no reasonable theory of why a vaccine would degrade natural antibodies.



Danaus29 said:


> Longevity studies that I have found results for, were done for the purpose of pushing a single dose of the mRNA therapy. Like this study here;


Not uncommon for initial studies to be done by those with financial incentives, and the results should be questioned skeptically.



Danaus29 said:


> Are traditional vaccines being developed and studied in the US.?


I don't know of any. I'm sure someone somewhere is looking for a surface target they could build an antibody against, but again, my understanding is the coronavirus' in general are difficult because their surface antigens are very humanistic, hence our focus on covid's spike protein.


----------



## Redlands Okie (Nov 28, 2017)

painterswife said:


> The "it isn't a vaccine" is getting old and so false.


Definitions seems to have been changed so that the mRNA stuff is now labeled as a vaccine.


----------



## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

Redlands Okie said:


> Definitions seems to have been changed so that the mRNA stuff is now labeled as a vaccine.


The process of making this vaccine may be new but it is still a vaccine. Vaccine technology is always progressing.


----------



## Redlands Okie (Nov 28, 2017)

boatswain2PA said:


> I doubt there are any. Studies are usually done to prove/disprove a theory that is considered reasonable. There is no reasonable theory of why a vaccine would degrade natural antibodies.
> 
> 
> Not uncommon for initial studies to be done by those with financial incentives, and the results should be questioned skeptically.
> ...





“humanistic”. I am getting lost on this. Would be interested on a layman description if you care to. 
Thanks


----------



## Redlands Okie (Nov 28, 2017)

painterswife said:


> The process of making this vaccine may be new but it is still a vaccine. Vaccine technology is always progressing.


Definition was changed. 
I do agree that things are changing. Lilkly to see some more changes as time goes by with this covid stuff.


----------



## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

Redlands Okie said:


> Definition was changed.
> I do agree that things are changing. Lilkly to see some more changes as time goes by with this covid stuff.


Definition was updated to what vaccines have been for years.


----------



## boatswain2PA (Feb 13, 2020)

Redlands Okie said:


> “humanistic”. I am getting lost on this. Would be interested on a layman description if you care to.
> Thanks


Humanistic - meaning the proteins on the surface of coronavirus' are the same, or very similar to, other proteins found throughout our body. Therefore if we make a vaccine to make antibodies against these proteins, either we would not create such antibodies, or the antibodies would attack our own bodies as much as the virus.


----------



## boatswain2PA (Feb 13, 2020)

I dont think we changed the definition of vaccine, just expanded it to include new technologies that had the same goal of producing an immune response to prevent/reduce infection.


----------



## Danaus29 (Sep 12, 2005)

boatswain2PA said:


> I doubt there are any. Studies are usually done to prove/disprove a theory that is considered reasonable. There is no reasonable theory of why a vaccine would degrade natural antibodies.





boatswain2PA said:


> Humanistic - meaning the proteins on the surface of coronavirus' are the same, or very similar to, other proteins found throughout our body. Therefore if we make a vaccine to make antibodies against these proteins, either we would not create such antibodies, or the antibodies would attack our own bodies as much as the virus.


Antibodies, even our own natural antibodies, sometimes attack systems they are not targeted to attack. 

Apparently there was some research done early in the mRNA trials to see if the therapy would attack the host animals immune system. I don't have the time to wade through all of them now. I am posting the link so I can reread the info when I have more time.









Evading innate immunity in nonviral mRNA delivery: Don't shoot the messenger | Request PDF


Request PDF | Evading innate immunity in nonviral mRNA delivery: Don't shoot the messenger | In the field of nonviral gene therapy, in vitro transcribed (IVT) mRNA has emerged as a promising tool for the delivery of genetic information.... | Find, read and cite all the research you need on...




www.researchgate.net


----------



## Alice In TX/MO (May 10, 2002)

The actual definition WAS changed. I wish I had taken screen shots when I checked it just as Covid started and now. 

I will grant that language evolves, otherwise we would sound like Shakespeare. 

It's disconcerting to see it happen this way.


----------



## no really (Aug 7, 2013)

Advertising the product.


----------



## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

Alice In TX/MO said:


> The actual definition WAS changed. I wish I had taken screen shots when I checked it just as Covid started and now.
> 
> I will grant that language evolves, otherwise we would sound like Shakespeare.
> 
> It's disconcerting to see it happen this way.


It was changed because it described the process of how vaccines were made decades ago. It was updated to leave out the process of making vaccines because there are new vaccines.

It was too specific. It is like describing a phone 40 years ago as with a dial compared to phones now with push buttons.


----------



## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

https://languagelog.ldc.upenn.edu/nll/?p=50886



"1. any preparation of weakened or killed bacteria or viruses introduced into the body to prevent a disease by stimulating antibodies against it. "

"
*: *a preparation that is administered (as by injection) to stimulate the body's immune response against a specific infectious disease:

a *: *an antigenic preparation of a typically inactivated or attenuated (see attenuated sense 2) pathogenic agent (such as a bacterium or virus) or one of its components or products (such as a protein or toxin)

b *: *a preparation of genetic material (such as a strand of synthesized messenger RNA) that is used by the cells of the body to produce an antigenic substance (such as a fragment of virus spike protein)
"


----------



## no really (Aug 7, 2013)

Alice In TX/MO said:


> The actual definition WAS changed. I wish I had taken screen shots when I checked it just as Covid started and now.
> 
> I will grant that language evolves, otherwise we would sound like Shakespeare.
> 
> It's disconcerting to see it happen this way.







__





Immunization Basics | CDC


Immunization: The Basics




web.archive.org





*Definition of Terms*
*Immunity:* Protection from an infectious disease. If you are immune to a disease, you can be exposed to it without becoming infected.

*Vaccine:* A product that stimulates a person’s immune system to produce immunity to a specific disease, protecting the person from that disease. Vaccines are usually administered through needle injections, but can also be administered by mouth or sprayed into the nose.

*Vaccination:* The act of introducing a vaccine into the body to produce immunity to a specific disease.

*Immunization:* A process by which a person becomes protected against a disease through vaccination. This term is often used interchangeably with vaccination or inoculation.


----------



## Forcast (Apr 15, 2014)

Not a job but renters are told to be vaccinated or you cant renew your lease. I suppose new renters as well. How far can this go before the rubber band snaps? Someone here posted about bedbug inspection on renewed lease.


----------



## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

Forcast said:


> Not a job but renters are told to be vaccinated or you cant renew your lease. I suppose new renters as well. How far can this go before the rubber band snaps? Someone here posted about bedbug inspection on renewed lease.


There are not enough homes or rentals to meet the need. They can require anything they want if the market will bear it.


----------



## mreynolds (Jan 1, 2015)

Forcast said:


> Not a job but renters are told to be vaccinated or you cant renew your lease. I suppose new renters as well. How far can this go before the rubber band snaps? Someone here posted about bedbug inspection on renewed lease.


I have not heard of this. Where are they doing this at?


----------



## wr (Aug 10, 2003)

painterswife said:


> There are not enough homes or rentals to meet the need. They can require anything they want if the market will bear it.


This one may suit your narrative but the next one may not. 

Would you be just as okay if landlords were refusing minorities, certain medical conditions or disabilities?


----------



## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

wr said:


> This one may suit your narrative but the next one may not.
> 
> Would you be just as okay if landlords were refusing minorities, certain medical conditions or disabilities?


Did I say it suits my narrative or that I agree with it? Don't assume things just because I discuss the facts.

Discrimination based on minorities and disabilities is against the law. Requiring a vaccination is not.


----------



## wr (Aug 10, 2003)

painterswife said:


> Did I say it suits my narrative or that I agree with it? Don't assume things just because I discuss the facts.
> 
> Discrimination based on minorities and disabilities is against the law. Requiring a vaccination is not.


But they can demand whatever they want as long as the market will bear it.....


----------



## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

wr said:


> But they can demand whatever they want as long as the market will bear it.....


That is how capitalism works. Did you believe otherwise?


----------



## Alice In TX/MO (May 10, 2002)

How does freedom work nowadays? How do your rights to choose what happens to your body without concern for consequences of discrimination work nowadays?

"Blacks were denied admission, jobs, full enjoyment of citizenship because of their race. Now, it's because of vaccination status." ~Michael Berry


----------



## wr (Aug 10, 2003)

painterswife said:


> That is how capitalism works. Did you believe otherwise?


I don't feel there's anything wrong with capitalism but I really don't think that landlords need medical records to verify if a tenant is going to pay their rent. Just as I don't believe they need to know what goes on in their tenants bedrooms.


----------



## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

wr said:


> I don't feel there's anything wrong with capitalism but I really don't think that landlords need medical records to verify if a tenant is going to pay their rent. Just as I don't believe they need to know what goes on in their tenants bedrooms.


I don't either but they may have reasons you and I are not aware of.


----------



## wr (Aug 10, 2003)

Alice In TX/MO said:


> How does freedom work nowadays? How do your rights to choose what happens to your body without concern for consequences of discrimination work nowadays?


That only applies when it suits the narrative. 'My Body, My Choice' is just a slogan, just like Nike coined the phrase, 'Just Do It.'


----------



## wr (Aug 10, 2003)

painterswife said:


> I don't either but they may have reasons you and I are not aware of.


They certainly do. They are forcing people to eat their peas.


----------



## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

LOL. That post has been brought by you ad nauseam. So what if you don't like my opinion. Anyone that balks just because they were told to get vaccinated instead of basing their decision on medical reasons is acting like a petulant child.


----------



## Alice In TX/MO (May 10, 2002)

Don't evict anyone during the Covid Panic. Oh, wait. You can if they haven't been vaccinated.

Yeah. That makes sense.


----------



## Alice In TX/MO (May 10, 2002)

definition of ad nauseum


painterswife said:


> LOL. That post has been brought by you ad nauseam. So what if you don't like my opinion. Anyone that balks just because they were told to get vaccinated instead of basing their decision on medical reasons is acting like a petulant child.


----------



## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

Alice In TX/MO said:


> definition of ad nauseum


 Another LOL. Right back at you.


----------



## Danaus29 (Sep 12, 2005)

If marijuana smoking is allowed in "no smoking" apartments I don't see how landlords can legally make a vaccine requirement in a rental contract.

Bedbugs are totally different. The landlord has a legal right to inspect any unit for damage and/or pest infestations as long as the inspection follows legal guidelines.

So the answer would be, no, capitalism is not legal when it comes to housing.


----------



## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

Danaus29 said:


> *If marijuana smoking is allowed in "no smoking" apartments *I don't see how landlords can legally make a vaccine requirement in a rental contract.
> 
> Bedbugs are totally different. The landlord has a legal right to inspect any unit for damage and/or pest infestations as long as the inspection follows legal guidelines.
> 
> So the answer would be, no, capitalism is not legal when it comes to housing.


I was under the impression that "no smoking" is enforceable by landlords, even if it is marijuana. Do you know of somewhere that is different?


----------



## wr (Aug 10, 2003)

painterswife said:


> I was under the impression that "no smoking" is enforceable by landlords, even if it is marijuana. Do you know of somewhere that is different?


Can landlords prohibit tenants from medical treatment?


----------



## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

wr said:


> Can landlords prohibit tenants from medical treatment?


Are you implying that the marijuana is a medical treatment? Have you heard of edibles?  There is vaping as well.


----------



## GTX63 (Dec 13, 2016)

painterswife said:


> LOL. That post has been brought by you ad nauseam. So what if you don't like my opinion. Anyone that balks just because they were told to get vaccinated instead of basing their decision on medical reasons is acting like a petulant child.


You are even wrong about not being wrong. You are a little clueless regarding landlord tenant rights and I'll be nice and call it naive in regards to the interpretation of capitalism.
Anyone that decides against being vaccinated is acting on their God given right to do so. It doesn't have to be a medical reason, nor is it, and you better lean in close for this one...any of your business.
Stomp your foot and push out your lower lip but it won't make any difference sweetie.


----------



## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

GTX63 said:


> You are even wrong about not being wrong. You are a little clueless regarding landlord tenant rights and I'll be nice and call it naive in regards to the interpretation of capitalism.
> Anyone that decides against being vaccinated is acting on their God given right to do so. It doesn't have to be a medical reason, nor is it, and you better lean in close for this one...any of your business.
> Stomp your foot and push out your lower lip but it won't make any difference sweetie.


Sorry but that is your opinion and not backed up by law. PS. There is no God.


----------



## Danaus29 (Sep 12, 2005)

painterswife said:


> I was under the impression that "no smoking" is enforceable by landlords, even if it is marijuana. Do you know of somewhere that is different?











Do the Non-Smoking Laws Apply to Legalized Marijuana?


In this atmosphere of ever changing laws, do the non-smoking laws apply.....



www.legalteamusa.net





It depends on the state, terms of the lease and if the landlord wants to persue the case. If the landlord refuses to persue the case it sets up the smoking tenant to be legally permitted to keep smoking.

If the marijuana is for medical use, the landlords hands are tied by several disability acts.

I know someone who does not smoke but lives next to a medical smoker in a "no smoking" apartment. They have been fighing this since they moved in, not knowing the person next door smokes pot.


----------



## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

Danaus29 said:


> Do the Non-Smoking Laws Apply to Legalized Marijuana?
> 
> 
> In this atmosphere of ever changing laws, do the non-smoking laws apply.....
> ...


Well, with the advent of vaping, maybe more landlords will fight it now as they do have alternatives.


----------



## Danaus29 (Sep 12, 2005)

Ohio laws lump vaping in with smoking. The laws were written to cover vaping faster than they were to cover medical (which is the only way pot is currently legal here) marijuana smoking. It's one of those grey areas now.


----------



## Farmerga (May 6, 2010)

painterswife said:


> LOL. That post has been brought by you ad nauseam. So what if you don't like my opinion. Anyone that balks just because they were told to get vaccinated instead of basing their decision on medical reasons is acting like a petulant child.


Sure, it worked out so nicely for those Black men during the Tuskegee experiments.


----------



## wr (Aug 10, 2003)

painterswife said:


> Are you implying that the marijuana is a medical treatment? Have you heard of edibles?  There is vaping as well.


It is prescribed in Canada, so yes, it is considered a medical treatment and I know a few people who have prescriptions from their doctor. 

Since it's outside my area of expertise, I'll have to accept their belief that gummies are ineffective for certain conditions and genreally considered recreational but one of my elderly neighbours takes two gummies a day for her arthritis and claims she hasn't felt better


----------



## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

no to the vaccine usi


wr said:


> It is prescribed in Canada, so yes, it is considered a medical treatment and I know a few people who have prescriptions from their doctor.
> 
> Since it's outside my area of expertise, I'll have to accept their belief that gummies are ineffective for certain conditions and genreally considered recreational but one of my elderly neighbours takes two gummies a day for her arthritis and claims she hasn't felt better


Vaping and edibles can be used by those prescribed Marijuana. Therefore no smoking required and no accoma needs to be made by landlords under the laws of most US States.

They don't make children prescribed it, smoke it. That in itself would stand up in any court.


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## wr (Aug 10, 2003)

I know that in Canada, it's prescribed specifically and landlords have made concessions such as allowing them to smoke or vape (which is also not allowed in rental units) on balconies or in suites under specific circumstances. 

I've never heard of landlord overriding a doctor's prescription and nobody seems to eager to challenge it so far.


----------



## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

No landlord here has overridden a doctor's prescription either.


----------



## mreynolds (Jan 1, 2015)

I think it mostly a moot point anyway. Leases say no pets and when they move out there is a distinct odor in the place. No boarders and you drive by and see 10 people there all the time.


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## Redlands Okie (Nov 28, 2017)

boatswain2PA said:


> Humanistic - meaning the proteins on the surface of coronavirus' are the same, or very similar to, other proteins found throughout our body. Therefore if we make a vaccine to make antibodies against these proteins, either we would not create such antibodies, or the antibodies would attack our own bodies as much as the virus.


Thought it was along those lines but was not sure. Thanks for taking the time for the answer. Makes sense.


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## Alice In TX/MO (May 10, 2002)

I saw an article mentioning exactly that earlier today, and I'll search again later. Something about males being more vulnerable to confused immune systems after the Covid injection. Perhaps related to the cardiomyopathy that has happened as a side effect.


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## Redlands Okie (Nov 28, 2017)

I am having a hard time that anyone thinks that vaping does not have a odor that carries or persists.


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## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

Redlands Okie said:


> I am having a hard time that anyone thinks that vaping does not have a odor that carries or persists.


No more of an odor than dirty socks or smelly fatulence. The difference is combustion and how smoke seems into everything .


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## mreynolds (Jan 1, 2015)

Alice In TX/MO said:


> I saw an article mentioning exactly that earlier today, and I'll search again later. Something about males being more vulnerable to confused immune systems after the Covid injection. Perhaps related to the cardiomyopathy that has happened as a side effect.


Dont forget "ballgate".


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## wr (Aug 10, 2003)

Redlands Okie said:


> I am having a hard time that anyone thinks that vaping does not have a odor that carries or persists.


Regardless of what you put in your vape, it does smell, which is why it's treated exactly like smoking in Canada. 

We are not allowed to vape in public buildings, must stand 15' from entrances and we are no longer allowed to smoke or vape as we walk down a public street. 

Albertans spoke and they don't approve of the wafting aroma of Tutti Frutti, tobacco, pipes cigars or any other substance. 

Weed is treated like alcohol and there are restrictions on public use, transportation and quantity but that changes if there is a prescription.


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## Alice In TX/MO (May 10, 2002)

Yeah yeah. No smoking on the University of Texas campus or in any buildings.

The smell of cannabis wafted through the venue at the Eric Clapton concert on Wednesday.

No one cared.


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

painterswife said:


> There is no God.


How do you know?


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## Alice In TX/MO (May 10, 2002)

1. No one called for security
2. The tipsy lady two seats away asked loudly for the smoker to share
3. The sound of people inhaling deeply
4. Not my first concert (or rodeo)
5. This is Austin.


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## B&L Chicken Ranch and Spa (Jan 4, 2019)

painterswife said:


> The process of making this vaccine may be new but it is still a vaccine. Vaccine technology is always progressing.


Wrong again. Poor dog


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## homesteadforty (Dec 4, 2007)

painterswife said:


> PS. There is no God.


I can't prove there is (but I have faith), but neither can you prove there isn't.

Problem is:

If you are correct I've lost nothing by believing.

If I'm correct... I'll spend eternity in heaven with him and you'll... well... end up in a less comfortable place with a master less forgiving.

I don't push my faith on anybody... why do non-believers want to push their lack of it on me? (that's a general question... not specific to me)


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## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

homesteadforty said:


> I can't prove there is (but I have faith), but neither can you prove there isn't.
> 
> Problem is:
> 
> ...


I was responding to someone that brought God into the thread. I don't push that on anyone. I simply replied to someone who brought it up first.

I am perfectly fine with not spending eternity in heaven or hell. I also don't believe that if there was a god as you believe that they would dismiss my life as it is and send me to hell just because I don't believe. Just no logic in that at all.


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

painterswife said:


> if there was a God as you believe that they would dismiss my life as it is and send me to hell


You choose to believe things I do not believe


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## 101pigs (Sep 18, 2018)

Alice In TX/MO said:


> Several doctors have expressed to me their disgust with the system. Some retired. Some don't take ANY insurance at all; you have to file claims yourself.
> 
> I don't know anymore what the answer is. I know healthcare is too expensive for regular folks. Insurance is too expensive for self employed and small businesses.
> 
> My friends in Germany have universal healthcare with a supplement private insurance so that they get better/complete care.


When i worked for 5 years in Canada i had healh care card there. It covered all health care including glasses etc. You pay by what they took out of your earnings. The best part about Canada was my wages was twice what i made in the U.S. Parks, streets, everything in any part of V.C.B.C. was extra clean. Loved working in Canada. A lot safer place to live. No one messed with you if you took a walk at 12 am or any part of the night. Standard of living was 25% higher than in the U.S.


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## homesteadforty (Dec 4, 2007)

painterswife said:


> I was responding to someone that brought God into the thread. I don't push that on anyone. I simply replied to someone who brought it up first.


The subject of that sentence was our rights as reference by Locke... not a particular belief in God. Many, many people reference "god" in ways both good and bad, without intentions of invoking him in supplication. From that you chose to directly attack the beliefs of billions of people.



> I am perfectly fine with not spending eternity in heaven or hell. I also don't believe that if there was a god _as you believe_ that they would dismiss my life as it is and send me to hell just because I don't believe.


And you know what I believe... how exactly? Do you believe you can begin to understand my beliefs from a couple of short references on this forum?... or do you have the gift of divination?



> Just no logic in that at all.


Um... as I understand it... that's why it's about Faith.


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## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

homesteadforty said:


> The subject of that sentence was our rights as reference by Locke... not a particular belief in God. Many, many people reference "god" in ways both good and bad, without intentions of invoking him in supplication. From that you chose to directly attack the beliefs of billions of people.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I know you believe there is a god. You have been on this site for many years and I know what I have read you say.


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## homesteadforty (Dec 4, 2007)

painterswife said:


> I know you believe there is a god. You have been on this site for many years and I know what I have read you say.


Yep... unashamedly.

But did you know that, like my political beliefs, I don't follow a particular religion? I believe that God (with a capitol G) is _the supreme being_... but I also believe there are many lesser gods and other supernatural powers, both good and bad, that hold sway over parts of our lives. I believe in heaven, purgatory and hell. I follow a combination of christian, celtic, native american and some shamanistic beliefs.

Most references on this forum are to God... hence my answers reflect that. But that doesn't come anywhere near the sum total of my beliefs.


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## wr (Aug 10, 2003)

101pigs said:


> When i worked for 5 years in Canada i had healh care card there. It covered all health care including glasses etc. You pay by what they took out of your earnings. The best part about Canada was my wages was twice what i made in the U.S. Parks, streets, everything in any part of V.C.B.C. was extra clean. Loved working in Canada. A lot safer place to live. No one messed with you if you took a walk at 12 am or any part of the night. Standard of living was 25% higher than in the U.S.


My province only covers basic medical care. Glasses, dental and prescription coverage come from private insurance such as Blue Cross.


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

101pigs said:


> When i worked for 5 years in Canada i had healh care card there. It covered all health care including glasses etc. You pay by what they took out of your earnings. The best part about Canada was my wages was twice what i made in the U.S. Parks, streets, everything in any part of V.C.B.C. was extra clean. Loved working in Canada. A lot safer place to live. No one messed with you if you took a walk at 12 am or any part of the night. Standard of living was 25% higher than in the U.S.


I have to wonder why you chose one of the most backward places in America over the idyllic setting you describe.


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## wr (Aug 10, 2003)

HDRider said:


> I have to wonder why you chose one of the most backward places in America over the idyllic setting you describe.


Van is beautiful and the climate is a huge attraction for many but housing costs compounded with federal and provincial sales taxes makes it a very expensive city.


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## kinderfeld (Jan 29, 2006)

Hospital to stop delivering babies as maternity workers resign over vaccine mandate


The best uncensored news, information, and analysis.




www.blacklistednews.com


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

A North Carolina-based hospital system has fired 175 employees for failing to comply with its COVID-19 vaccine mandate.

Novant Health had said last week that approximately 375 of its 35,000-member workforce was noncompliant with the mandate, and those individuals were placed on a five-day, unpaid suspension.

Team members who remained noncompliant after the suspension period would have their employment terminated.

ADVERTISEMENT
In a statement to The Hill on Tuesday, the hospital system said that roughly 200 additional team members have come into compliance since last week’s update.









North Carolina-based hospital system fires 175 for failing to comply with vaccine mandate


A North Carolina-based hospital system has fired 175 employees for failing to comply with its COVID-19 vaccine mandate.Novant Health had said last week that approximately 375 of its …




thehill.com


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## GTX63 (Dec 13, 2016)

HDRider said:


> In a statement to The Hill on Tuesday, the hospital system said that roughly 200 additional team members have come into compliance since last week’s update.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Oh, they are calling them "Team Members" now.


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## Pony (Jan 6, 2003)

deleted the post because it was redundant


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## Redlands Okie (Nov 28, 2017)

GTX63 said:


> Oh, they are calling them "Team Members" now.


Seems “employee” is a bad word now. Being paid to do a job is somehow not enough. Need to make the hired help feel “included.”


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## Pony (Jan 6, 2003)

Redlands Okie said:


> Seems “employee” is a bad word now. Being paid to do a job is somehow not enough. Need to make the hired help feel “included.”


e

More/continuing PC....


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## jeepgrrl (Jun 3, 2020)

Danaus29 said:


> It is a valid question, it would have been very easy to study. A number of people who have recovered from covid, get vaccinated, then get covid again.
> 
> The problem is that TPTB have mandated that everyone get the vaccine without asking *IF* everyone should get the vaccine.
> 
> 6 months ago questions regarding the longevity of the vaccines was poo-pooed too.


If there is any good news to report on COVID, it is that the CDC is finally being forced to acknowledge natural immunity and they can’t hide from that any longer, despite their BS Kentucky study. Hopefully, this will pave the way for the civil rights issues of bodily integrity and informed consent that are protected by our Constitution. If we are stripped of those rights, along with the diluting of the 2nd amendment, there will no longer be a United States of America as we used to know it.


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## Pony (Jan 6, 2003)

This graduate level nurse, a Fed Gov employee, blew the whistle in a big way.

If, after watching this video, people still make comments about those who refuse the jab, then they are tools of the dictatorship and nothing more.









Federal Govt Whistleblower Goes Public with Secret Recordings: ‘Government Doesn’t Want to Show the [COVID] Vaccine is Full of Sh*t’; ‘Shove’ Adverse Effect Reporting ‘Under the Mat’


Investigating and exposing corruption in both public and private institutions.




www.projectveritas.com


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## nchobbyfarm (Apr 10, 2011)

80 of 30,000 UNC Health workers quit over COVID-19 vaccine mandate


Eighty out of 30,000 UNC Health employees have resigned rather than get vaccinated against coronavirus, health system officials said Tuesday.




www.wral.com


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## nchobbyfarm (Apr 10, 2011)

Maine hospital preparing for staff shortage. 









Maine hospital suspends some admissions, diverts patients over vaccine mandate staffing concerns


Central Maine Medical Center in Lewiston will assess and stabilize certain patients who arrive at the emergency room before diverting them to another facility if they need to be admitted, the hospital said Monday.




www.foxnews.com


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## GTX63 (Dec 13, 2016)

We are told we are in the middle of a world wide pandemic, and the hospitals are firing health care workers and Doctors are refusing to see patients because they might be sick.


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## mreynolds (Jan 1, 2015)

Went to the doctor yesterday and walked in without a mask. Nurse took me to the back without a mask. Doctor came and and saw me without a mask. 

No one wore garlic around their necks or made the sign of the cross. No one came at me with a stake to the heart. There was not any wolfsbane in the building. No water to pour on the witches. 

I thought I was back in 2019.


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## B&L Chicken Ranch and Spa (Jan 4, 2019)

mreynolds said:


> Went to the doctor yesterday and walked in without a mask. Nurse took me to the back without a mask. Doctor came and and saw me without a mask.
> 
> No one wore garlic around their necks or made the sign of the cross. No one came at me with a stake to the heart. There was not any wolfsbane in the building. No water to pour on the witches.
> 
> I thought I was back in 2019.


Sir, you live in a sane world. Lucky stiff!


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