# I remember when our range master showed us how to make our own...



## Shrek (May 1, 2002)

...hydraulic expansion JHP rounds using bird shot super glued in the hollow cavity to maximize expansion of the hollow point 40 years ago.

The other day I bought a couple boxes of JHP rounds for my 1911 and when I got home and loaded my magazines for my next range practice and self defense, I noticed the ones I bought were factory made hydraulic expansion rounds and weren't that more expensive per box than the standard JHP rounds I usually buy.

In the ancient times after he showed us how to make the cavity hydraulic, I made some but when I found out hydraulically altering a JHP only increased expansion by 20% or so, I just figured double tapping with standard JHP was sufficient.

After noticing the factory made hydraulic expansion rounds, I called the gun shop guy to make sure they were legal for civilian use and not reserved for LE only and he told many civilians use them for self defense now instead of upgrading their own with the glued in bird shot tactic of decades ago. 

I guess I am behind the times but like my father and grandfather before me, if I find something that works for me, I don't worry about fixing what ain't broke which is why I have always stuck with what worked for me, the time I had to spend to maintain my gear and best fit my budget.

When i buy more JHP to range practice with the same I load to carry, i will probably buy the less expensive standard hollow point , but these factory made hydraulics I won't run many through range practice and just keep with the 1911 for a little more expansion if i have to use it for home defense.


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## GunMonkeyIntl (May 13, 2013)

There are several Commercial loads with filled HPs, and there is no legal issue (in most states) with civilians owning them as they aren’t considered armor piercing. 

You are correct that the filled HP doesn’t do a whole lot in terms of expansion into soft material. There may be a slight increase, but some of that may well be due to the other design considerations the manufacturer puts into it. 

Where filled HPs really shine is in shooting through barriers. When shooting through plywood, drywall, and even heavy cloth, a standard HP can fill up with barrier material, and fail to expand as well once it hits the soft target. Harder barriers, like glass and car doors, tend to deform the rim of the HP, closing it up a little, and causing it to expand less in the soft target. 

A properly filled HP hits the barrier and begins expansion, ever so slightly, so that, by the time it gets to the soft target, it behaves a little more like it was designed. The filler becomes sacrificial, and what comes out the other side is more or less like a regular HP. 

I’m not sure DIY-filling a HP is such a good idea, though. Just like using handloads or a modified pistol for self-defense, it could give the prosecutors extra ammunition to use against you. Using something like shot would be pounced upon as your having intentionally taken steps to make your ammo more “killey”, and I wouldn’t trust most juries not to take that bait.


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## GREENCOUNTYPETE (Jul 25, 2006)

There should not be any ban on civilians owning anything LE has PERIOD.

a few states like NJ trample the peoples rights.

If a police officer has a justified use for it when he/she arrives on scene , you had a justified use for it until he/she got there.

if you can find something real to test your ammo on I found some very well known commonly marketed as LE duty ammo was basically a 147gr fmj when I shot it.

nuisance raccoons have been my test medium several times.


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## muleskinner2 (Oct 7, 2007)

Unless you live in a dictatorship, there are no rounds that are for "police only". I have heard that there are police departments that carry FMJ as duty ammo. I find it hard to believe that anybody could be that stupid. On the other hand there are a lot of things I hear about that are hard to believe.


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