# dog horses and libility



## Ziptie (May 16, 2013)

Question, if a dogs is barking it's crazy head off on its own property and a person is riding a horse next to the property and gets bucked off and hurt. Who is a fault the owner of the dog or the horse?
I am guessing it is the horse owners. Correct?


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## offthegrid (Aug 11, 2009)

I would say the rider holds all the responsibility -- barking dogs are just one of many possible things that might spook a horse and rider. 

For example...my pasture is on the road. I also worry about riders when my horses gallop up to the fence. But....what do I do? (For the record, if my neighbors ever actually called me and asked me to move horses to the back so they could ride by, I would!...but maybe they figure it's just part of riding on the road....)

In my opinion, a rider is 100% responsible for their own safety, pretty much all the time. If I chased them down with a chainsaw...ok, maybe I could be held liable. But if my tractor spooks them (yes, this has happened to me, resulting in a child falling off while I was moving gravel), or if a deer jumps out...bicycle goes by, or if a car swerves too close....these are the possible dangers to a rider when on a public road or public place.


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## Forcast (Apr 15, 2014)

why would it be any different then riding by a railroad track and a train comes along? I know I am near the rail line (your property line) and I know trains run on the tracks (I know you have a dog) hence I choose to stay away from the trail tracks and your property line and dog or teach my horse about trains and barking dogs or find a different trail to ride.


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## rambotex (May 5, 2014)

he Texas Equine Act limits liability for Equine activities and equine related injuries. I do not think that would apply to gross negligence


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## wr (Aug 10, 2003)

Ziptie said:


> Question, if a dogs is barking it's crazy head off on its own property and a person is riding a horse next to the property and gets bucked off and hurt. Who is a fault the owner of the dog or the horse?
> 
> I am guessing it is the horse owners. Correct?



I'm afraid that if a horse is spooky enough to buck because a dog is barking on adjacent property, it's spooky enough that you can't blame the dog or dog owner. 

Realistically, if a horse is goofy enough to come apart for something that silly, it likely needs to be replaced by something sane.


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## wr (Aug 10, 2003)

Would liability be any different if a plane flew over or someone started a lawnmower and a horse flipped out?


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## Molly Mckee (Jul 8, 2006)

Just keep in mind that people will sue for what they think is your liability and defending yourself is not cheap!


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## rambotex (May 5, 2014)

Molly Mckee said:


> Just keep in mind that people will sue for what they think is your liability and defending yourself is not cheap!


If you have insurance defense is included


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## Ziptie (May 16, 2013)

Thanks everyone for the input. That is what I thought. We live next to a trail. Supposed to a just a walking trial but some people are riding there horses on it.


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## aoconnor1 (Jun 19, 2014)

Ziptie said:


> Thanks everyone for the input. That is what I thought. We live next to a trail. Supposed to a just a walking trial but some people are riding there horses on it.


If it's your dog doing the barking and spooking, I would try to stop that behavior on your end...just so a rider who is stupid enough to ride your fenceline and gets bucked off from your dog barking, doesn't come back on you with a lawsuit even if they were at fault. Just my two cents worth. 

We had a film crew on our little county lane last spring filming a scene where riders were coming across the small bridge on our lane on horseback, and then walking their horses up the lane about 100 yards. Our 48 acre bottom pasture runs along that lane all the way to the bridge. I graze 22 horses on that piece. We had no prior warning the film crew was doing work down there...and boy did my horses have a ball running and gawking during the entire filming! The riders would come across the bridge, and BOOM, 22 horses (several off the track Thoroughbreds and running QH's in that herd) would be full on hurtling toward the riders with reckless abandon. The riders horses didn't even flinch, just flicked their ears forward and stared, but didn't spook. The riders would go back across the bridge for another take, and my herd would wander back to graze. Then here comes the riders, and there goes my herd...BOOM! Right back to the fence line gawking and carrying on like a bunch of high schoolers meeting a rock star! It was hilarious...no one got hurt and the film crew had a good time as did the riders. Had one of them gotten thrown or injured though, you better believe I would have heard about it and I don't know that I wouldn't have had a lawsuit against me for not controlling my horses, even without prior warning of the filming. One never knows in this world today who is going to come after you, or for what. Better to be safe than sorry.


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## Maura (Jun 6, 2004)

I would work on keeping your dog from barking at the horses. If he got out, he would probably chase the horses, and then the liability would be on you. Sometimes horses come down our road, a couple of times a large party of riders. I worked my dog to leave the horses alone. He can sit and watch them, but that is all. He is not behind a fence and his compliance is necessary. It took a couple of time, but he is quite trustworthy now. Though, If I saw horses when he is outside I would go out and make sure all was well.


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## redgate (Sep 18, 2008)

When we lived in Colorado, I remember one day hearing my livestock guardian dogs take off across the (fenced) pasture barking fiercely. Then, I saw my donkey follow suit. I looked out the window and saw a horse-back rider passing by. I don't know if the horse was reacting more to the dogs or to the donkey (which seemed to spook every horse we ever encountered on the trail too), but that horse was so freaked out, it was an accident waiting to happen. The rider jumped off and managed to lead the horse (whose hooves were pretty much off the ground the whole time!) past our property. Remounting down the road was no easy feat either. I don't know their story, and never saw them again, but that would not be a horse I would consider ready for such encounters. I expose my horses to everything I can think of before going out on the trail for the first time. I let my dogs bark, I have my kiddos ride their bikes, po-go sticks, and play with balloons and balls nearby, and to prepare for parades, I've even gone as far as tying streamers and flags by the water trough. My horses may get nervous at something new, but they remain calm enough to control them. In a case like the OP's, it is my understanding that, as long as the dog is on its own property, there is no liability.


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## bergere (May 11, 2002)

What I hate... is loose dogs on someones land, which they don't have fenced... you are riding on the other side of the street and the dogs come off their property, across the road, to chase down, horses, walkers...what ever.
Seen dogs savage horses so badly, they had to be put down... riders hurt. 

Remember one Rotty back when I lived in Gig harbor, warned the owner about his dog,, he tried to attack my son who was 6 years old at the time (and no,my son didn't try to do anything.. he was just sitting there next to me), when I was working in the veggy garden down the road from my place. I beat the dog off... told him, he did that again and I would shot the dog.
Later that week, a young girl even farther down the road was riding to the trails.. same Rotty went after her horse, which was no were near that dogs house...
I couldn't do a thing.. dog was ripping up a panicked horse.. I called the police... it was a mess.

Lets just say, I have gotten to the point,, I no longer drive my Mini Maggie off our place. Can't trust any dog owner to do the right thing.

So if those dogs that are barking are fenced in, is one thing... barking and no fencing..and coming after someone walking or riding,, sorry.. but that is the dog owners fault.


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## Alder (Aug 18, 2014)

I've driven horses on public roads and contended with dogs for many years. Helps to always carry a long buggy whip and have your horses trained and confident to it being used around them. In a pinch, the whip is "helpful" against dogs on the road.

One very weird thing we found with dogs that ran out of driveways after us...we most always have hats on in the carriage...and doggoned if it doesn't just stop a dog in his tracks when I take my hat off - like saying "hello, glad to meetcha" to the dog. Saved us a kerfuffle many a time, and funny besides.

Try it sometime.


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## where I want to (Oct 28, 2008)

I remember once riding past an old farm house when at least a dozen dogs from tiny to big charged down the driveway onto the road to attack my horse. She had one hanging off her tail, another snatched her winter fur off her belly. 
Dang trooper did not even break her stride except to cow kick one dog into the road side ditch where upon the whole pack charged back to the house. If something would have happened, it would have been the farmer's liability but I wrote this to point out the horse is also a major component. 
I will say that most places have laws making it illegal to deliberately startle a horse. I'm not sure if allowing a dog to do so qualifies as deliberate.


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## bergere (May 11, 2002)

Alder said:


> I've driven horses on public roads and contended with dogs for many years. Helps to always carry a long buggy whip and have your horses trained and confident to it being used around them. In a pinch, the whip is "helpful" against dogs on the road.
> 
> One very weird thing we found with dogs that ran out of driveways after us...we most always have hats on in the carriage...and doggoned if it doesn't just stop a dog in his tracks when I take my hat off - like saying "hello, glad to meetcha" to the dog. Saved us a kerfuffle many a time, and funny besides.
> 
> Try it sometime.


For big horses its one thing... but when the horse you drive is the same size as the dogs.... not so good. Maggie is bold, not scared of a thing.. she will chase dogs bigger than her. But if one goes for 
her throat....

There are a lot of deer hunting dogs around here... loose... and packs will not back down, if they have your animal in their eye. Single dog, depending on the dog will some times back off... but I have
never seen a pack back off.

Back in Oregon where I used to live, there were a high number of Cougar and Bear... you very rarely saw a loose dog. Rather deal with the wildlife than domestic dogs.

Glad what you do works, but sadly, I have seen too many accidents cased by dogs.


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## redgate (Sep 18, 2008)

They also make a battery-powered dog whistle. I used to carry one when I road in south GA, where there lots of packs-gone-wild dogs. The frequency was too high for the horses, but stopped even the most aggressive dogs in their tracks, and sent them running. I would just loop it onto my saddle, and off we'd ride. I loved that thing!! Don't remember where I got it, but I have seen similar things in several equine catalogs, and they aren't very expensive.


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## Alder (Aug 18, 2014)

Loose running dog packs don't last long around here because there ARE too many deer hunters. It's legal for any citizen to shoot deer-chasing dogs from January to July in Minnesota...and they do.

The worst problems here always come from people who have their dogs loose in the yard and let them charge out on the road from the driveway. I make it a point to encourage my horses to see dogs as fair game. As usual, if the handler doesn't panic, and takes an aggressive stance, the dogs often back off. Horses learn this too, and mine have been known to strike, kick and try to run dogs into the ditch (not encouraged in the carriage). Horse vs. dog...horse wins every time.

Granted - if you drive ponies, this might be a problem. Then, a pellet gun/paint ball gun would be helpful...as well as liberal use of that handy dandy buggy whip.

But a confident driver/rider (as always) imparts courage and confidence in their horses, and that is the base of any defense against dogs on the road.


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## tamarackreg (Mar 13, 2006)

Some of the most fun I've had on a horse was with a mare that hated dogs. 

No fear. She would pin her ears back and charge in full stomp'em, grind 'em gear.

The looks on the owners of Mr. Badass Rott / Pit / Shepard's, etc, etc's face was priceless.


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## redgate (Sep 18, 2008)

I do know of one situation where aircraft could have been held liable. It was a Percheron training farm, and it happened to be on a common flight path. However, for some unknown reason, some of the personal aircraft would swoop pretty low to the farm. We can only guess to get a good look at the horses. It nearly killed the driver on several occasions, when the noise and sudden appearance of a low-flying plan sent a new team-in-training running. Potentially ruined a few good teams too, due to the wreck it caused. My husband (who was a pilot) explained that aircraft are given levels they are allowed to fly. Above residential and other) areas, they are required to stay xx number of feet in altitude. These low-flying aircraft were breaking the rules, and could have been held liable. In this case, however, the annoyed, but forgiving owner called the flight line office, explained his predicament, and the pilots were notified accordingly (he had descriptions of the guilty aircraft). The pilots stopped, and all was resolved. Sometimes people just don't think, or aren't educated as to the potential dangers they can cause.


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## SueMc (Jan 10, 2010)

tamarackreg said:


> Some of the most fun I've had on a horse was with a mare that hated dogs.
> 
> No fear. She would pin her ears back and charge in full stomp'em, grind 'em gear.
> 
> The looks on the owners of Mr. Badass Rott / Pit / Shepard's, etc, etc's face was priceless.


I had a mare like that. Most loose dogs knew to leave her alone except one 7 pounder name Precious. That thing would run down yapping at my horse every time while the old lady owner yelled "leave the horse alone Precious". It was all I could do to keep my mare from chasing the dog back to the house and up the porch steps. 

Except for loose dogs and people who intentionally honk at me while riding I think it's up to the owner to "bomb-proof" the horse. I thought my mule was until a grain semi did that loud brake noise thing while coming up behind us. My mule took off like a shot but as a good mule will do, got it together and calmed down quickly. 

One good remedy for a chasing dog is a water gun full of full strength ammonia. You don't even have to hit the dog directly, just get close.

As far as liability, we do carry a policy on our homeowner's insurance that covers damage caused by my horse's should they escape and cause a wreck, etc.


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## tamarackreg (Mar 13, 2006)

Have used ammonia on a habitual chasing dog that lived on a fast downhill stretch while bicycling. 

Ended his chasing carreer immediately and permanently.

A less voluminous delivery method than a dishsoap bottle would be sufficient.


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## Lisa in WA (Oct 11, 2004)

Alder said:


> Loose running dog packs don't last long around here because there ARE too many deer hunters. It's legal for any citizen to shoot deer-chasing dogs from January to July in Minnesota...and they do.
> 
> The worst problems here always come from people who have their dogs loose in the yard and let them charge out on the road from the driveway. I make it a point to encourage my horses to see dogs as fair game. As usual, if the handler doesn't panic, and takes an aggressive stance, the dogs often back off. Horses learn this too, and mine have been known to strike, kick and try to run dogs into the ditch (not encouraged in the carriage). Horse vs. dog...horse wins every time.
> 
> ...


How do you encourage a horse to see dogs as fair game?
I have a pony who will go after a dog in his pasture but we never encouraged it...it's his idea.


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## Alder (Aug 18, 2014)

basketti said:


> How do you encourage a horse to see dogs as fair game?
> I have a pony who will go after a dog in his pasture but we never encouraged it...it's his idea.


How do you encourage a horse to work cattle or a dog to hunt? Same deal. Praise them when they make the right moves, boost their confidence, then let them work.


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