# Exploring options



## thequeensblessing (Mar 30, 2003)

We live in an area that is predominantly small farms. We were the first small farm to have Great Pyrenees as guardians. Most of our small farmer neighbors didn't know what they were when we brought our first two Pyrs to our new farm, 10 years ago. One of our neighbors, a Jersey dairy and Suffolk sheep farmer, fell in love with them, but didn't approve of the way we treated our Pyrs "like pets" as he put it. He wanted to get some and treat them like livestock. So, long story short, a year or so later, he bought a Pyr dog and a Maremma ***** and turned them out with his sheep. Eventually, he noticed that the maremma appeared to be nursing pups, so he went out searching for them. He found the new litter sandwiched between two upright round bales along a fence row. Mama was there and about tore him to pieces, because she had had so little human interaction, she just saw him as a threat. He beat a hasty retreat and she raised her pups to be pretty much feral. This has happened numerous times and now the neighborhood is over run with feral Pyr/Maremma mixes. 
We currently have 2 elderly Pyrs, and a 2 year old. These feral Pyrs continually come onto our property and our Pyrs are getting so used to them, that they do whatever they can to get over, under or through the pasture to go romp and run with the feral pyrs. Last year we lost more livestock to predation than we have in all the other years we'd lived here, combined. You'd think with that many feral pyrs around, the predators wouldn't stand a chance, but I"m not convinced that these feral pyrs aren't doing some of their own predation. I just don't know what to think. My own Pyrs are off carousing the neighborhood instead of doing their job. 
So, we're exploring options. Our two elderly Pyrs will probably meet their maker soon as they are both 11 years old. I don't know what the young one will do once they are gone. She's a spayed female, but she won't stay home. I always catch glimpses of her running off with a group of the feral dogs. (I've come around the corner of our barn/equipment shed and come face to face with a snarling, growling feral pyr who hubby dispatched quickly.) 
What are options, other than dogs, for reliable predator control. 
Because or dogs aren't reliable any longer, We are playing shepherds and bringing our sheep out to the back pastures by day, and bringing them into the barn at night. Last year alone, we lost 8 lambs to predators, a mother Muscovy duck and her 5 three day old ducklings, 2 full grown guineas, numerous chickens, and a full grown turkey hen. We find some carcasses laying around (the chickens and turkey) minus heads and with their innards missing via a gaping whole in the breast/abdomen, but the lambs and ducks simply disappeared over night. The guineas, I assume were taken by foxes because all we found of them were feather piles outside the pasture fence. We have caught numerous coyotes patrolling our pasture fences on our game camera. 
We no longer free range anything. Everything has a coop and a run, fowl wise. We still worry about the lambs. 
So, what are the viable, reliable alternatives?


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## Maura (Jun 6, 2004)

Call animal control and tell them there are stray dogs in the area and you have been loosing livestock. They will first try to find the owners, which means they will visit the neighbors and see if anyone owns up to the dogs. After that, they will probably dispatch them.

Another option is to lure the dogs one by one into a truck and take them yourself to an animal shelter. They will probably be put down unless a rescue group will take them.

If you have no animal control in your area, then the next logical choice would seem to be SSS.


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## thequeensblessing (Mar 30, 2003)

Thank you, Maura. I agree, and we've been working on the solution to the feral dog problem. It may take a while to rid the neighborhood of them all, but we are doing it. 

My question is more about the livestock guardian options we might have. What are the pros and cons of the different non-canine guardians. What are other's experiences with non-canine guardians? Or how can we make guardian dogs work for us, i.e., stay put in the pasture? Our fences seem solid and keep all our livestock in, except for our dogs, who we've watched climb over, or under to get out when the feral pyrs are around. They stay in the pasture unless those darned ferals are around. (I blame my dogs, not solely the feral ones). My dogs are neutered and my fences are good. I'm frustrated and exploring options. Thanks!


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## CAjerseychick (Aug 11, 2013)

Being a dog person myself- I would probably get a handler oriented canine like a Rottie or a giant schnauzer (something on the Plus side to handle the size of these ferals)or maybe even an Ovarchaka-- something known for dog aggression espec male dog aggression(they will be fine with your Spayed female)-- they will establish territory on your property and kill/ chase off other intruding canines. 
There is a lady on Dog forums that loves loves her Caucasian Ovcharka...


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## CAjerseychick (Aug 11, 2013)

Oh and here is the National Pyr rescue link, they seem to have alot of Ohio cases, they can be a great resource for you (info and how to handle that farmer-- if he had to pay for the damage his feral pups did, he might care more)...

http://www.nationalpyr.org/neediest-cases


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## motdaugrnds (Jul 3, 2002)

You do have quite a problem. I think I might let the neighbor who owns those ferals know (in as kind a way possible) that they will be held accountable for any of my animals I personally see their dogs killing. (You know they know what is going on!)

I sure would contact animal control; and I like CA's idea, too, about getting some extra large dog-aggressive canines...quite a few. (Not real sure how this would be done while keeping your sheep safe.) ... I really like the look and temperament of the Central Asian Ovcharka .............


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## Muleman (Nov 8, 2013)

I would say there is a few things to consider, not knowing the exact nature of your relationship with your neighbor. Sometimes making a big deal out of your neighbors dogs coming on your property only causes the neighbor to think you are being a **^%$$# about the hole thing and it is no big deal. Then when they start coming up missing they put 2 and 2 together and blame you (maybe not to your face). It may be better if it has come up in casual conversation in the past to simply keep quite, keep doing what you are doing (dispatching) until there is no more issues. A live trap also works very well. 
Next what to get instead. I would seriously consider a large donkey and are possibly a mule. Some mules do not differentiate between friendly small animal and unfriendly though?? In either though, they are just like dogs, you got to get one with the right temperament, some donkeys will ignore other animals, some will herd up with them. 2 Donkeys will herd with each other, so just get 1, same with the mule.


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## Maura (Jun 6, 2004)

I was also thinking of a donkey. It would have to be a guardian donkey, one bonded to the livestock. They will confront a dog, which usually makes the dog go away because they don&#8217;t want a fight. If you have two, they will tag team. However, they will not let your dogs in with the sheep either. I had two mini donkeys when I had sheep and they formed their own set, the sheep in the other set, but the two groups form a larger set. The two jennets were very protective of the sheep. When they come from their shelter over to me (hay, water) or over to a graze, the head donkey would take the lead, the other donkey took the rear, and the sheep all walked single file between them.

So, it is possible, but the donkeys must be bonded to sheep and this is done as weanlings. Just like with LGD&#8217;s.

In your situation I might lure the dogs into an enclosure and call AC to come and pick them up. Discuss the situation, the AC may have a specific routine and equipment they use for large feral dogs. If your own dog ends up trapped, just let him out.

I think your dogs may be so trained to roam that even with the ferals gone, you may need to rehome the younger one and get another dog. Prys are great, but they roam and a better choice now may be a dog that sticks closer to home and is less friendly toward stranger dogs.


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## hercsmama (Jan 15, 2004)

I'm afraid your female has most likely been ruined by those ferals.
I agree with either calling animal control, if you have one available, or SSS. They need to be gotten rid of and quickly.
As to the ignorant owner that started the whole mess, I'm sorry, friendly neighborly relations be, you know what. I'd tell him flat out what he has done, and quite possibly have an attorney write up some sort of letter, letting him know that you hold him responsible for your losses, to include the loss of your working dogs.
See if that doesn't light a fire up under his behind to deal with the issue he has caused.
He really needs to be held accountable for his ignorance.


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