# Cub Cadet PTO Will Not Engage



## Wingdo

I keep thinking it is me, as in something simple, but I have worried over this dang thing for almost a week now. I'm pretty much blind as far as seeing things clearly, but while mowing last week the blades stopped and after traveling a couple of hundred feet, I tried it again, it kicked on and then stopped again, not to restart again. I went so far as double checking all the "safety" features to make sure they were still plugged in, then pulled the electric PTO and checked to make sure it engaged by completing the circuit with the battery and it was fine. Now I'm getting worried as the grass continues to grow and the mower doesn't seem any closer to mowing.
It's a Cub 2206 w/a 19 HP motor and a 48" deck... any simple ideas to help get this cow mooing again would be greatly appreciated.


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## Bearfootfarm

I'd try by-passing the safety switches one at a time to make sure they haven't gone bad. and test the PTO switch also


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## farmerDale

The seat switches have given me grief on my mowers in the past, so I re-routed them to by pass the faulty, "and oh so annoying) switch.


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## flewism

Mine is a 1529 and had the silly switch that cut off the deck if you went in reverse. Both the seat and reverse cutoff switches have been bypasses for 10 years now. So now you have no power to the electric PTO clutch when you pull the switch to engage it? Do have a meter or test light or something to trace where you are losing power?


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## sammyd

Bad fuse somewhere?


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## Wingdo

flewism said:


> Mine is a 1529 and had the silly switch that cut off the deck if you went in reverse. Both the seat and reverse cutoff switches have been bypasses for 10 years now. So now you have no power to the electric PTO clutch when you pull the switch to engage it? Do have a meter or test light or something to trace where you are losing power?


I had a tester some ten years ago when I could actually see it... those days are long gone. The seat switch was simple enough, all I had to do was unplug one lead and it did fine for the past 6 years... I plugged it back in recently to see if that would help matters but it didn't.
While I got you here how do I bypass all those safety features... at this point I'd rather mow than sit on my butt doing nothing but watching the grass grow!


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## Cabin Fever

Wingdo said:


> I had a tester some ten years ago when I could actually see it... those days are long gone. The seat switch was simple enough, all I had to do was unplug one lead and it did fine for the past 6 years... I plugged it back in recently to see if that would help matters but it didn't.
> While I got you here how do I bypass all those safety features... at this point I'd rather mow than sit on my butt doing nothing but watching the grass grow!


If you do not have a volt meter to test whether the PTO clutch is getting power, just use a 12-volt light. Remove the electrical connector from the clutch and push a couple of wires into the connector and attach the other ends of the wires to a 12-volt light. Turn the ignition to ON (dont start the engine, but make sure you're sitting on the seat) and pull out the PTO knob. If the light comes on, the problem is in the clutch. If the light doesn't come on, the problem is upstream somewhere (PTO switch, safety turn off, broken or loose wire, etc).


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## flewism

Wingdo said:


> I had a tester some ten years ago when I could actually see it... those days are long gone. The seat switch was simple enough, all I had to do was unplug one lead and it did fine for the past 6 years... I plugged it back in recently to see if that would help matters but it didn't.
> While I got you here how do I bypass all those safety features... at this point I'd rather mow than sit on my butt doing nothing but watching the grass grow!


 My reverse cutoff switch was on the linkage for the forward/reverse pedal under the platform right side. I don't recommend disabling anything just yet. Do what CB said first that you have no power to the electric clutch, then back up the switch.
Mine does have (2) 15amp automotive type fuses and some do have relays, but you said the deck stopped while mowing, then started working again, then stopped again and hasn't worked since. Based on that I don't think fuse but a bad relay ??


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## alleyyooper

You know it works but keeps shutting off. So there fore the problem is not with the safety switches. Plus you are getting power to the clutch if it comes on for a little while but shuts off.

Only one thing left that can be the problem.
*the air gap on the clutch. * I AM NOT SURE WHICH CLUTCH MTD used, so can not tell you what the air gap should be. Also some have adjustments for the air gap and some don't.

If the gap is to great the electro magnet can not pull the two parts together.
Yours sounds as if it is right on the verge of being OK but not enough.

http://www.mowfaster.com/service/el_cl_adj.php

Here is a PDF that might be of help.

http://agriquip.co.nz/uploaded_files/Kingcat Manuals/Warner Clutch Adjustment.pdf


 Al


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## Wingdo

There are no adjustment bolts... on closes the gap off creates it.

Can I wire it directly to the pos/neg and install a toggle switch?


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## Wingdo

There are two wire running into the PTO, the blue one runs directly to the engagement switch on the dash... however, if I touch the blue wire to the negative side of the battery the pto will engage. Is this bypassing all the safety switches? Can I put a toggle on it and could this be a sign of a bad ground connection... the battery hasn't maintained a charge in years so it usually a jump every time I mow?


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## Wingdo

Well... I mowed! I didn't have a toggle switch, but did have a pull chain switch for a lamp... yep, looks ridiculous, but it did the job and gives me a little time to figure the rest of this stupid mess figured out! Tied it from the blue wire coming out of the PTO to the negative side of the battery and it took off like a scalded dog.
Now, since I got it figured as a grounding issue, how in three quarts of oil do I figure out were the problem is? I borrowed a tester from the neighbor but can't really see to do much with it other than watch the needle bounce when I hit a nerve. Tell me in simple words, like you're talking to a 71 year 9 year old, if you can... thanks!


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## flewism

I believe this is your wiring diagram, print it, it is time to check the PTO switch. make sure you have 7 terminals on the back of your switch. You still need the meter, a new switch is less than $20 if it is bad.


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## Wingdo

When I bought this mower I bought another with a blown engine about a week later for parts in case anything went wrong... that was in 2009. This spring about everything went wrong, the steering bushing went bad, front axle fell apart when I jacked it up to air a flat, the spindle on the deck, etc. all parts that were replaced with parts from the blown mower, including the PTO switch early in my current frustrations. Do you think both the switches could be bad? I don't know, as I gave up on being a mechanic in 1966 when all those weird things began showing up on engines... PCV valves and such.


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## flewism

Only you can decide what you want to do, there is (2) fuses one comes off the battery thru the relay and into pin #7 and #4 on your PTO switch, check that fuse, the other fuse should be good because it starts. Then find the relay, green and white going in (2) browns coming out.


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## Wingdo

Then find the relay, green and white going in (2) browns coming out.

You left me hanging there flewism... find them and do what? I remember the wires being there... is this the "relay" I should try replacing so I can take my lamp pull chain off? I have a sense of humor, but lamp parts on a mower is kinda pushing that particular limit!


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## flewism

So the fuse is good? Did you find the relay? I'm on my phone.


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## Wingdo

Yes sir... both fuses are good and I know exactly where the "relay" is.


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## flewism

Good, I'm home now staring at that drawing,
Pull the relay, there is a lot of Utube videos on how to test a relay. there will be a drawing on 1 side of the relay describing the terminal layout. you will need a couple lengths of wire and a 12V DC power source (the battery) 
Are you comfortable using that meter on the 20 volt DC range and ohms?
1) Now that the relay is pulled with the ignition key on you should have 12 volts at the white wire so meter on 20 volt dc range, one (red) probe in the female terminal at the white wire and the black probe on battery negative, you should get the same reading on the frame as the ground.

2) With the meter set to ohms you need to have a good ground (zero reading) at the terminal with the green wire so either probe at the green wire and the other at negative at the battery and/or frame. 

All this is checking is that you have power going into the relay.

If you don't have the 12volts at the white wire, look at or disable at the reverse cutoff switch discussed in an earlier post as it is wired in between the alternator and power in at the relay. It is under the platform on the pedal linkage with a red wire going in and a white wire coming out straight to that relay.

If that doesn't get you 12volts at the white wire then your looking at damaged wiring.

If all that checks out, install the relay, pull the brown wire #7 off the PTO switch and you need 12 volts there, so back on 20 volts dc and the brown wire to ground need to read 12volts with the key on. Pull the green wire off the PTO switch #5 and you need a good ground there.


If all that check out were back at the PTO switch, which can be tested.

I'm tied up tomorrow until mid afternoon I'll check in then.
Good luck and don't blow the fuse in your buddy's meter.


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## flewism

Switch number 725-3233, has (7) terminals make sure you chart the wiring. The colors and number position are on the posted picture. 

We are going to measure what terminals are open (no power can flow) or or closed (power can flow)

We are measuring continuity on ohms, so all power off, disconnect the battery or remove the switch.

PTO switch off position
Terminal 1 & 2 closed, zero ohms, power flows 
Terminal 5 & 7 closed, zero ohms, power flows 

PTO switch ON
Terminal 3 & 4 closed, zero ohms, power flows. 
Terminal 6 & 7 closed, zero ohms, power flows. 

Terminal 6 is the blue wire the you rigged with your switch to negative for your temporary fix, by the way good job on that.

Or you can install a toggle switch and secure the wiring you have, the only issue I can see is that you could then start the mower with the PTO on.

I hope this works out.


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## Wingdo

Sorry Flew... just got home from a three day ride in a hospital bed. Had a little issue and it pretty well eliminated any work on the mower, or mowing for that matter. Thanks for your help.


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