# One mould, one barrel of wheelweights and your choice of guns.



## Jolly (Jan 8, 2004)

Powder, brass and primers? Enough for you and your children and your children's children.

What guns would you choose? 

Remember, you only have one mould.


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## alleyyooper (Apr 22, 2005)

Winchester 94 chambered for either the 30-30 or the 32 special. Of course they are different bore sizes and if you were to use the 30-30 308 dia bullets you could load the bullets in several 30 cal rifle cases.

 Al


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## Chuck R. (Apr 24, 2008)

Jolly said:


> Powder, brass and primers? Enough for you and your children and your children's children.
> 
> What guns would you choose?
> 
> Remember, you only have one mould.


Provided the mold is the sticking point. I'd choose a 250-300 grain .454 diameter .45Colt.

Rational, I have:

3 Colt SAA's in .45Colt
1 Marlin 1894 "Cowboy" in .45Colt
1885 Highwall in .45-90 and an 1874 Shiloh Sharps in .45-100, using soft alloy the .454s should bump up. If not I can probably paper patch them up to diameter. 

Chuck


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## GREENCOUNTYPETE (Jul 25, 2006)

Jolly said:


> Powder, brass and primers? Enough for you and your children and your children's children.
> 
> What guns would you choose?
> 
> Remember, you only have one mould.


let me makes sure i have the rules correct I can have several guns , they can be in different calibers and I can have several different brass and more than 1 powder , but i can only have one mold 

but only 1 barrel of wheel weights , are these already smelted wheel weights in ingots or just raw scrap sorted to get the iron and zinc ones out. can I assume a 55 gallon drum is the barrel size


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## MichaelK! (Oct 22, 2010)

I'd select Lyman's .430" 245grain SWC and the .44 Magnum cartridge. Loaded properly, it can be used for lightish target loads, to full-bore magnums for deer hunting. With a .44 magnum revolver, and a .44 magnum rifle, you can pretty much expect to be able to kill about 95% of American game, depending on the range you chose to shoot at.

BTW, I was just at the flea market a few months ago and picked up a bucket of 44 brass for 18$. Here it is drying in the sun after I washed it. By weight, I've guestimated I got about 1050 44 magnum cases, mostly Starline brass.


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## tarbe (Apr 7, 2007)

Well, you might think I am cheating, but I am only thinking outside the box.

I would have a custom mold made up by NOE. It would be a three cavity...a nice 170 - 180 gr round-flat point, a clone of the Lyman 429421, and the third hole would be similar to the Ranch Dog 435gr wide flat point .460 diameter.

I could keep the 30 cals, the 44 mag and the 45-70/.458 mag shooting.

If I really wanted to make a pig of myself I could have them make up a custom 6 holer....




Tim


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## wilded (May 10, 2002)

.357 round nose flat point. Load my .38 special revolver, my .357 revolver and shoot both in my Rossi model 92 lever or my bolt action .357 Ruger 77.


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## GREENCOUNTYPETE (Jul 25, 2006)

I think i have the answer 

first , there is nothing wrong with the 30-30 , it is one of my favorite cast bullet shooters and part of the reason for that is the rimmed case , it never looses head space 

but i have been doing some reading and testing and I think I have found the reason and solution , no it wasn't my work that found it but a very smart guy who has done a lot of cast bullet experiments long before i even knew about them.

in his testing he found that pushing the shoulder forward on very light loads was actually being done by the large rifle primer, as reduced loads in the 223 case with a small rifle primer never seemed to have this effect and that if you drill out the flash hole and mark the cases with a saw file mark across the head it doesn't hurt the case , but makes it easily identifiable to you that it is a modified case he found that if a #29 drill was used to enlarge the flash channel a rifle large rifle primer would no longer set the shoulder forward any measurable amount he loaded and fired 50 times form the same case to make sure it didn't just extent the number of firings before the shoulder set forward and the primer would back out because of excessive head space 
I didn't have a #29 but looked it up .1360" I didn't go that big and I wasn't using large rifle primers but was using large pistol primers I used a more common 3/32 .0938 drill to open up the flash channel of one piece of brass that I marked and now have fired about a dozen times and does not appear to be pushing the shoulder forward if it does I will enlarge another more possibly with a 7/64 .1094 or 1/8 .1250
but with pistol primers it doesn't seem to be an issue 

the larger hole does make small amounts of pistol powder burn more complete also 
so far my tests have been with power pistol that is very similar to unique I needed 4.5 gr to get clean burn in 30-30 and with the larger flash hole in the 30-06 the same 4.5 gr still works well , I haven't put these on paper form the 30-06 but I expect similar results to the 30-30 that would make 1 big hole in the target at 25 and 50 yards with a 10 shot group. this was all done with a 90gr semi wad cutter mold tl314-90swc

other testing of light rounds but with heavier bullets in 30-30 found 6.7 gr of power pistol under a 170gr c309-170rf without a gas check gave good 50 yard accuracy and did as well as i could see at 100 yards with iron sights , ringing a steel plate at 100 yards was every shot.

part of the reason I started talking about light loads , is that 75% or more of what you shoot you don't need full power loads for , and if you never exceeded 150 or 200 yards 30-30 would really be all you would ever need 

But 30-06 can be made a 600 yard gun even with cast bullets , ideally a 1:12 barrel would make the best longer range cast boolit shooter allowing you to push velocities a bit higher to get 600 yards and still be super sonic you need a bullet with a decent ballistic coefficient .317 at 180 gr will do you and still be super sonic at 600 yards if you can start it off on it's trip at 2500 fps 

but when it comes to little cat sneeze loads the case capacity between 30-30 and 30-06 is just a grain or less difference 

either way one mold , well you didn't say we couldn't order a custom mold 

there is more than one way to skin this cat 

could do a plain base drop pin single cavity mold and be able to do cast boolits from short and light to long and heavy 

or you could order a 6 cavity mold with a few different things like 2 cavities as 90gr .314 " swc 2 cavities as 125gr .358 truncated cone and one 2 cavities as .311 170gr round flat 

smaller volume cartridges like 30-30 need 2.7gr of bullseye to get a 90gr swc to 850-950 fps and larger cases like 30-06 need 3.0 gr the difference being you get about 2500 or 2300 to the pound 

another good option would be to go pistol cartridge carbine and revolver combos for everyone and shoot 357mag or 44mag but the bigger around the more lead you use and lead seems to be fairly finite 

as for powders bullseye , power pistol or unique , 2400 and 4895 would be good choices 

for primers you can use pistol primers in most cast bullet loads as you seldom get pressure over 35,000 psi and we know they will take 40k just fine 

as for guns to feed them in I like bolts , because as much as i like levers they are more work harder to take down and clean , harder to push a patch form the breach to the muzzle 

I went kind of on the small light side because you really limited yourself to about a ton and a half of lead even if you put it in ingot form before stacking the barrel full then you asked it to last 2-3 life times and even at the little 90 gr pill 77 of them to the pound 3000 pounds of lead only makes 272727 boolits and if you got 50 reloads of each peice of brass you would need 5454 and if you were to shoot all those with an average of 5 gr of powder you would need 194 pounds so if you only have 2 ids and they have 2 kids and they have 2 kids you might be fine but if you each have 5 kids thats going to get used very fast 

I just thought about paper patching , you could paper patch the 180 gr 30 call up to .323 and run it through a 8x57 mauser 

but in the end if your looking low cost molds the Lee 2 cavity molds at 20-25 dollars with handles are very hard to beat and more than one is a good idea , and the 6 cavity sure make boolits fast , I have them for all my pistol calibers and wish i had one for .490 round balls

but I would standardized on 30 or 31 cal rifle there is just so much you can do with it


wow i started typing this this morning and kept thinking of more all day


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## GREENCOUNTYPETE (Jul 25, 2006)

I may have to go buy a #29 drill , .0938 is not big enough after a dozen firings the primer is backing out .005 still no where near enough to cause a head space issue big enough to keep it from firing in the M1 I am testing in but I may go buy a #29 drill bit and go to .1360 and be done with it


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## Jolly (Jan 8, 2004)

GREENCOUNTYPETE said:


> let me makes sure i have the rules correct I can have several guns , they can be in different calibers and I can have several different brass and more than 1 powder , but i can only have one mold
> 
> but only 1 barrel of wheel weights , are these already smelted wheel weights in ingots or just raw scrap sorted to get the iron and zinc ones out. can I assume a 55 gallon drum is the barrel size


Raw wheelweights - 55 gallon drum. As many guns as you wish. One mould, only.


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## Jolly (Jan 8, 2004)

Let's make things a bit more complicated...two bullet mould, single type.

No multi-bullet customs...if you can't buy it off the RCBS, Lyman or Lee shelves, it ain't kosher.


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## GREENCOUNTYPETE (Jul 25, 2006)

If I could only have one mold of a single bullet design but as many wheel weights as I wanted , I would go with a 250gr Keith desing and feed it in 44s 444 marlin , 44-06 , 44mag

in large part because I feel that hand guns are important also and I would want something I could feed both


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## bluetogreens (May 31, 2010)

even though I do not shoot either right now, if it was a SHTF prep time, I'd have to go the 44mag/spc route, or 357 route or 45 route. Where I live long range is not an option but small limbs/leaves/brush is an issue, so a fat bullet at speed with a min viable range of 150-200 yds. max range would be under 400yds and that would have to be from an elevated position to go over the neighbors.


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## Gray Wolf (Jan 25, 2013)

I'd go with 38 cal.

I have 44 mag handguns and one lever action, but the handguns are too big/heavy for everyday carry.

38/357 will get the job done in a smaller/lighter carry package and be easier for my wife to shoot.

For this game, can we resize the cast bullets a thousandth or two and also use for 9mm and 380? I'd really go with 38's if that is the case.


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## MichaelK! (Oct 22, 2010)

Gray Wolf said:


> For this game, can we resize the cast bullets a thousandth or two and also use for 9mm and 380? I'd really go with 38's if that is the case.


Funny you should mention this, because this is what I've already done with 9mm. I loaded it with Lyman's 358477 SWC sized to .356". In Lyman #2 alloy it weighs about 147 grains, the standard top weight for 9mm.

As funny shaped as it is, it feeds flawlessly in all my 9MMs.


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## Jolly (Jan 8, 2004)

Gray Wolf said:


> I'd go with 38 cal.
> 
> I have 44 mag handguns and one lever action, but the handguns are too big/heavy for everyday carry.
> 
> ...


Resizing - within commonly accepted parameters - is allowed.


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## tarbe (Apr 7, 2007)

Jolly said:


> Let's make things a bit more complicated...two bullet mould, single type.
> 
> No multi-bullet customs...if you can't buy it off the RCBS, Lyman or Lee shelves, it ain't kosher.


Man, you are like some politicians I know...changing the rules as you go! :happy2:


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## Silvercreek Farmer (Oct 13, 2005)

The one you have. Amazing what you can come up with when your options are limited.


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## simi-steading (Sep 27, 2012)

I think I'd go with a 7.62... 30 cal, or close enough.. and for chambering that into a handgun you got the CZ-52.. 7.62x25... kind of an all around caliber you could get away with in a lot of guns..


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## Jolly (Jan 8, 2004)

Lots of good stuff.

My thoughts...

A 180g Keith-style in a .357 caliber. Guns would be a .357 4" revolver, a 6" .357 revolver, a .357 rifle and a rifle chambered for .356 Winchester.

My barrel of lead will last longer. My guns can cover the gamut from everyday self-protection to small game hunting, to deer hunting, to hunting elk in timber.


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## GREENCOUNTYPETE (Jul 25, 2006)

who makes the 180 kieth , lyman has a 170


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## Gray Wolf (Jan 25, 2013)

That's a bit heavy/long for handguns, so I'd go a little lighter so they could be used for 357, 38, 9mm, and 380. 

You could always push a lighter bullet a bit faster if needed for a rifle load.


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## GREENCOUNTYPETE (Jul 25, 2006)

the problem is there isn't a one size fits all solution , small pistols that are easy to carry just don't do well with heavy bullets , and if you want the power and penetration to take larger game you need weight.

a 140-180 gr 26,27,30 or 31 caliber is the closest to a middle weight that will do it all are largely a function of velocity and weight to diameter but none of those translate well into small easy to carry pistol 


the answer might be to carry a rifle everywhere rather than a pistol 
or it might be to go bigger on the pistol 

for the price of molds , I think it would mean just get 2 molds a 35 cal 250gr rifle mold and a 35 cal 120-125 gr pistol bullet mold and use the pistol bullets on smaller game to conserv lead , then have the 250 gr thumpers that will take anything around 

but then I suppose this is the challenge what do you compromise for a 1 mold challenge

this had been why i chose the 250gr keith style , becuse a 44 special charter bull dog could launch it from a small enough package to be use full in social issues a 44 mag super blackhawk can run it well for a working gun to carry while doing chores and field work Kieth used it out to 200+ yards from a revolver , and a 444 marlin can run it fast enough for larger game like bear, hogs ,deer , moose , elk


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## poorboy (Apr 15, 2006)

My little .32 maxi-ball mold, can work in 30-30-, 7.62x39,.32 s&w,32 h&r,.327 federal and of course jist fine in the muzzleloader it was intended for..103 gr. mity mite


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## Ohio Rusty (Jan 18, 2008)

Probably the .357 magnum. You can get a myriad of .357 pistols in single or double action or rifles in lever action or bolt action -- both chambered for the same caliber. The .357 mould will work with both .38 special or .357 magnum. The .357 magnum will stop men and most beasts. The .357 is one of the best manstopper rounds according to the FBI. The .357 loaded up is more than adequate for deer sized game. The choice of bullet would be the 158 grain size, either hollowpoint of flat point with a good sized meplat that gives plenty of smack to knock down varmints ...whether they are 2 legged or four. A heavier bullet will work in .38, but there is TONS of good load data for the .158 grain lead cast bullet. Unique and 2400 are my two favorite powders for this caliber.
Ohio Rusty ><>

"If you run , you just die tired" ...........


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## Jolly (Jan 8, 2004)

GREENCOUNTYPETE said:


> who makes the 180 kieth , lyman has a 170


The Lyman will cast a tad heavy (maybe about 174), but it is the best example of a heavy Keith. RCBS makes a flatnose 180, as does NOE.

The guys over at Cast Boolits did a group buy a few years back for a 180g Keith, but that wouldn't count, as that would be more of a custom job...


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## 700ti (Nov 4, 2014)

I had a molds, lead and black powder. My problem was the other critical component primers. Makes the other two useless! I have seen it go for over 6 months without primers or smokeless powder on a self. There was always black powder or black powder substitute available in Anchorage 40+ miles away. 

After that I will never again be without a flintlock. I bought a used T/C Firestorm but I'm searching for a smooth bore so it can be used with both shot and round ball. So my one mold would be for a round ball mold for my (future smooth bore flintlock)

Lenard


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## GREENCOUNTYPETE (Jul 25, 2006)

was at the LGS tonight they had bulls eye and several of the powders I hadn't seen there in 2 years , they even had 22lr even a few different ones and 22wm 

stock the primers deep any time you find them cheap

Lenard remember to stock up on potassium nitrate to add to your willow cuttings.


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## littlejoe (Jan 17, 2007)

Wow! You definitely put some thought into this.

Although I'm not currently set up to cast, I'd pick the 357 caliber...even though I've got two 44 mag rifles. I intend on expanding to a 357 rifle...just havn't found the right trade yet.



GREENCOUNTYPETE said:


> I think i have the answer
> 
> first , there is nothing wrong with the 30-30 , it is one of my favorite cast bullet shooters and part of the reason for that is the rimmed case , it never looses head space
> 
> ...


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## GREENCOUNTYPETE (Jul 25, 2006)

if you ream a 357 mag to 357 Max it gets real interesting , most factory 357 chambered rifles are almost there anyway with a long freebore 

it is a matter of magazine or action length in many , but in single shots it isn't an issue 

in a rifle you can get 357 max over 2000fps in a range of bullets 

yeah I my over think some things


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## Danaus29 (Sep 12, 2005)

.45 long colt / .454 casull 
There's some really pretty guns in that caliber.  Got my eye on one that's just a tad out of my current price range.


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## krackin (Nov 2, 2014)

.458, no doubt. Pr'lly 400 gr. With non-jacketed ammo the velocity must be kept down and to make up for that I want a larger bullet. That will cover my semi-retired only for bear .45-70 #3 carbine plus the .450 Marlins kicking around the neighborhood. These will handle any situation out to decent range and then some.

Now, y'all understand I'm hanging onto the ammo and supplies on hand so this is no worry anyway.


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## GREENCOUNTYPETE (Jul 25, 2006)

You would be amazed the penetration a 30cal 170gr cast bullet has , 8 inches of oak at about 1200fps , that load has almost no recoil from a lever action 30-30 

a double lung shot out to 100 yards should be a pass though easy enough, it isn't very long range but using a flat nose soft cast bullet 

you would have to hunt a bit get shots in the 50-75 yard range with good shot placment , but you would be way ahead of archery range and power 

modest cast loads even plain base or gas check design but without the gas check installed are fairly easy to get to 1300 fps and maintain plenty of accuracy to hunt under 100 yards

change you hunting tactics to only take shots inside 30 yards and only head shots a nd the little 90gr swc would take deer ,after all they bring more thump than the 22lr that is a poacher favorite


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## krackin (Nov 2, 2014)

I have shot .30-30 with 125gr. through a Contender and these loads were extremely accurate and pleasant to shoot. I can't tell you what the loads were, I don't recall and they weren't mine. All the same, it another plus for .30-30 rounds. I have also fired factory 170 gr through a Contender and these aren't bad at all to shoot. A .35 Rem is quite a handful.


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## Malamute (Sep 15, 2011)

I already own more than one mold.


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## littlejoe (Jan 17, 2007)

Malamute said:


> I already own more than one mold.


Well....in the interest of furthering our present regime goals, you should give up your hoard and send me all... but if you insist, you can save one .54 caliber ball mold. It will suffice for any hunting or sporting activities!


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## krackin (Nov 2, 2014)

You know, if y'all decided to chip in and get me a Sharps .50, I'd change my mind. I'd even take pure lead and you split the barrel of weights.


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## GREENCOUNTYPETE (Jul 25, 2006)

I just started thinking of molds by caliber , when i ran out of fingers I just gave up, but I know there are a few more I Need


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## Malamute (Sep 15, 2011)

GREENCOUNTYPETE said:


> I just started thinking of molds by caliber , when i ran out of fingers I just gave up, but I know there are a few more I Need



I like the idea of having a light and a heavy in each caliber. Heavies for standard level loads, light for ultra-light loads and using less lead. Round balls make decent small game loads in almost any caliber, and are very cheap to shoot.

I used to think a flintlock or percussion gun was a good idea as far as shortages were concerned, but I figured out that for less than the gun would cost, I could buy enough primers and powder to last an _awful_ long time when used conservatively. Simply staying ahead of your use, rather than buying as you need it or run out. The problem isn't so much that you cant find stuff on the shelf, but that you didn't prepare ahead of time and buy when it was available, so periods of poor availability don't affect you. Same as 22 shells or any other commodity one may value. 

I don't think I've actually _run out_ of anything ammo or reloading supplies related in maybe 30 years. The first couple times were enough, and it wasn't even lean times. I _really_ don't understand why people don't plan ahead better.


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## GREENCOUNTYPETE (Jul 25, 2006)

Malamute said:


> I like the idea of having a light and a heavy in each caliber. Heavies for standard level loads, light for ultra-light loads and using less lead. Round balls make decent small game loads in almost any caliber, and are very cheap to shoot.
> 
> I used to think a flintlock or percussion gun was a good idea as far as shortages were concerned, but I figured out that for less than the gun would cost, I could buy enough primers and powder to last an _awful_ long time when used conservatively. Simply staying ahead of your use, rather than buying as you need it or run out. The problem isn't so much that you cant find stuff on the shelf, but that you didn't prepare ahead of time and buy when it was available, so periods of poor availability don't affect you. Same as 22 shells or any other commodity one may value.
> 
> I don't think I've actually _run out_ of anything ammo or reloading supplies related in maybe 30 years. The first couple times were enough, and it wasn't even lean times. *I really don't understand why people don't plan ahead better.*


a question for the ages , probably because they never had to , going out to dinner seemed more important a the time , there is never enough money and it wasn't a need , probably a million reasons 

I was just kicking myself (not hard) for not having cast any .430 210gr round flat bullets and worked up a load for them yet , and hunting season snuck up on me , don't worry chances are I won't even get the 44 out and if I do I have factory rounds , and hand loaded 240gr xtps and 240gr cast swc , but I told myself when I bought the mold last winter that I was going to work up a load this year for 210gr round flat to shoot to my sights and not have to replace the front sight to make the 240s work right even though I have the new front sight sitting on my bench 

I was packing for hunting and my wife saw me carry and arm load of ammo out and put it in a pack ,"were you planning to shoot ALL the deer" , maybe not all of them but anything that will make a target of it's self and they won't do me any good here if I am there.

I can't be the only guy who brings several boxes of shells and 3-4 guns to deer camp

my second year hunting I was sure happy a cousin brought a spare gun , that was just about the time that trigger locks came out and they were being given out , well we rode with a friend to deer camp in his truck , didn't need any keys so left them at home , yup opening morning opened the cases to find locks securely locked , not that we ever let that happen again but I have fallen and had the but plate crack , I had a cousin who had a firing pin break , a barrel get a plug of mud, and it is just so much easier to go grab another gun from the truck and fix it later


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## Malamute (Sep 15, 2011)

I tend to take enough ammo to survive a few months, hey you never know,... 

Spare gun, or two.

I've got the Lyman 429421 bullet in 44, but want one of the 429215's also. My medium load of 9 grs Unique with the 240-250's is nice, but also makes a really nice carbine load for plinking and small game shooting with a 200 gr flat point bullet in the 92 Browning. It turns out to be about what the black powder level 44-40 loads were. Very pleasant to shoot. Would like maybe a round ball for it also. The commercial .433 balls make good close range light loads.


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## GREENCOUNTYPETE (Jul 25, 2006)

I flare the case a bit , set a .440 round ball in same as I cast for the 45 cap lock and run it into the seating die .010 on a soft round ball squeezes easy and they hold in place well 2.5 gr of tight wad under it makes it move about right 

I did some 240 swc with 7.5 and 9gr power pistol comparable to the 9gr unique load 

I also run 13gr power pistol under a 240 XTP for a factory equivalent or slightly better load


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## ATPFARM (Dec 31, 2012)

Jolly said:


> Powder, brass and primers? Enough for you and your children and your children's children.
> 
> What guns would you choose?
> 
> Remember, you only have one mould.


one mould...?
with only one mould with lead.... 45 caliber
1911 and polymer gun for every day carry for acp only. ruger Blackhawk convertible (45acp and 45 colt cylinders) and a model 92 rifle for colts


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