# Any off-grid folks using a 'regular' fridge?



## greg273 (Aug 5, 2003)

Home Depot has a 9cu.ft. fridge for $250, unfortunately made in China, but it says it has a 1.5Amp current draw. That is on par with the chest-type freezers I've seen, and it seems like it might be do-able with my limited solar electric system.
Anyone else using an efficient 'normal' fridge off-grid? And for those using the chest-type freezer converted to fridge, hows that working out for you?


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## Jim-mi (May 15, 2002)

How thick are the walls of that unit. . .??
If its short on insulation than that compressor is going to be running a whole bunch.
The walls on mine are 4" thick. Very efficient . . . infrequent running (12vdc)

After way too many years of using 'uprights' many will find a 'chest' style inconvient. . . . . . My advice get used to it . .cause your saveing big on energy.

One of the "best buys" today is the SunDanzer. . . .Danfoss compressor(the best) . .4.3" wall insulation . . . and no computer . . . . .
But the price is far from what you mentioned.

Ya get what ya pays for.




rant off


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## dunewalker (Mar 4, 2007)

We've been using a conventional fridge here on our off-grid homestead for several years, but it's a small apartment-sized one, maybe 6 cu. ft. Both of our off-grid neighbors use larger conventional ones. There are three things you can do to save power with these: 1)glue some foam insulation around the outside, plus carpeting on the door 2) put the fridge in a "pantry" or tightly closing cabinet that's vented to the outside (this really helps during winter when power production is low & temps are too) 3) keep the fridge dialed to the lowest setting.


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## VonWolfen (May 24, 2004)

We have a full sized Sears refrigerator/freezer that has a 3.5 amp draw. It has worked well for 2 years and we have only off-grid solar power. I don't know anything about the refrigerator you mentioned...but much has to do with the size of your solar system, obviously.


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## mightybooboo (Feb 10, 2004)

Jim-mi said:


> One of the "best buys" today is the SunDanzer. . . .Danfoss compressor(the best) . .4.3" wall insulation . . . and no computer . . . . .
> But the price is far from what you mentioned.
> 
> Ya get what ya pays for.
> rant off


Thats no rant,thats excellent advice.

Friend has the 8 cf sundanzer freezer.Set at 0 degrees.Draws 1.8 amps at 24 volts.Quality I would rate an 'A'.

Hasnt put a kilowatt meter to it,I doubt it runs even 4 hours/day. His 24 volt 20 amp panel setup runs it just fine,along with his lights and tv/sat system.

Yep,you get what you pay for.

But Im wondering Jim-mi,do you think its possible it just might be better buying 850 worth of panels at 4.50/watt and a 250 dollar cheap freezer or fridge? My gut says no but Im not good at doing the usage conversions for power usage.Maybe Solar Gary has the numbers already crunched?

My next freezer and fridge are definitely sundanzers unless Im broke and cant afford them,and Im still on grid but an offgrid hopeful.

Its an awesome machine.


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## Lisa in WA (Oct 11, 2004)

Yes! We finally got rid of my old nemesis, the Danby propane fridge. I wanted to shoot it but greed prevailed and we sold it to a friend for his hunting cabin.  
For the short term we have a smaller electric Magic Chef "freezer on top version" and when we redo the cabinets in teh kitchen, I'll get a larger super efficient one.


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## Jim-mi (May 15, 2002)

Boy talk about a >"Buyer Beware"<

You don't want me to post my real feelings about a china cheapo..........................................

Boo there's so many factors here so that its gonna be really hard to tell how much *run time* this 250 unit would rack up.
AND...more PV pannels wont do a thing for all the night time running energy needed.

It will be 120vac so you've the conversion losses (DC to AC) to add in.
Sundanzer will go 12\24 dc and now a 120ac unit is available.

Way too many folks have the problem thinking that "a couple PV pannels will run everything".
Tain't so
If they would only>up front< replace that monster-electric-guzzler with the likes of a Sundanzer, they would see a very large reduction in their electric usage.


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## mightybooboo (Feb 10, 2004)

To get an idea how efficient that freezer is at 1.8 amps,his new desktop computer with a 22 inch LCD monitor draws 7 amps from 24 volt batteries to 120 volt inverter to computer!

Words like AMAZING and ASTOUNDING are certainly not an understatement to describe that freezer,this is a tremendous power savings.Imagine how much grid power could be saved by making this technology the norm.

Back to MY rant,new tech will indeed be the answer to the power equation of the future.


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## mightybooboo (Feb 10, 2004)

LisaInN.Idaho said:


> Yes! We finally got rid of my old nemesis, the Danby propane fridge.


Bud has propane fridge in the house.He figured it would be about a 5 year payback to replace it with a Sundanzer fridge.


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## greg273 (Aug 5, 2003)

The first thing I thought when I looked at that Chinese fridge was... its gonna need a LOT more insulation... 


My current solar setup is ~200 watts, soon I'll uprgrade to about ~960, quite a jump in power production.


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## Jim-mi (May 15, 2002)

Greg you seem to be a thinking man.........
The chinnnneee 250 unit is for non thinkers.
Definition; The non thinkers buy strickly by the price tag. They have no clue about their electric meters spinning out of control.
And "Looky here we've now got His & Hers ice cube makers"
And "The frig computer tells the grocery store when we are low on eggs and milk" . . ."And the store sends the eggs and milk over" . . "It is so conveniet" . . ."I don't even have to think"
And the sheep__ buy into all this nonsense.
The *dollar store* attitude is helping to kill this country.

One of my customers (wind turbine) was showing me her latest kitchen goody . . . a monster 3 door fridge. Her focus was on how all those doors were so neat. No clue as to the power needed to keep that thing going.
Oh ya . . .the price tag for her unit was 2000 +

It is refreshing that there is a top of the line, quality, no frills added-or needed- refridgeration unit that will keep my ice cream just right----and uses a Very small amount of energy to do so.

Increase your system size and work your way toward a *good* fridge.


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## Blu3duk (Jun 2, 2002)

What if a person was to take the $250 china unit, tear it apart, and build your own inside a wood cabinet with adequate insulation?

i know not everyone is a wood worker, but a simple plywood cabinet is not hard to build.

I have for years wanted to build a fridge and freezer into the existing walls of a house i one day build, and have the motors vented to the outside of the house away from the cold units..... never have built the house that would allow that to be installed in the manner i want to...... yet..... including a nice cold room for hangin the meat, be it wild game or farm raised..... so many wants and so few dollars right now to have an efficient walk in freezer would be the ultimate.... yeah i know find an ice cave, which are around this are.

yet the possibilities exist to build a new efficient fridge out of lesser one and relocate the hot motor/compressor so the rising heat does not enter the cold area.

William


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## Jim-mi (May 15, 2002)

To dissapate the compressor heat, coils are attached to the outside *skin* of those cheapy units.
Don't believe me . . .plug one in and soon your hand will tell you where the coils are.
SO . . .you can not add insulation all the way around it . . 

William, there use to be available all the componets so that you could *build your own* fridge. I've seen that done on boats, and someone *built his own* in his kitchen with 6" thick foam walls . . . . .talk about efficient.

Interesting challange to take apart that cheapy and rebuild it with super insulation.


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## Blu3duk (Jun 2, 2002)

well I never have seen one of those new cheap things, i have not been in the market for one, 7 years ago when we were first married and needing a fridge my wife and I bought a Crosby fridge only cause we inherited a big ole 21 ft chest freezer that was her folks [both had passed away and none of the other kids wanted it] and other than it was built back in the 1960s, it is not bad at all. of course we are on the grid so it is plugged in, but if I had to go buy a new unit to "save" a few bucks, it would definitely be awhile afore the difference between free and new would catch up on the difference in efficiency right now.

I still think once in awhile about building my own though i have never seen a kit offered for sale, i really had not search one out either..... if such does not exist therein lies a fair niche business with a probably growing market for the right person...... boats you say...... nah the ole lady wont live in a tent, i doubt she would go for a boat either....


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## mightybooboo (Feb 10, 2004)

Jim-mi said:


> To dissapate the compressor heat, coils are attached to the outside *skin* of those cheapy units.
> Don't believe me . . .plug one in and soon your hand will tell you where the coils are.
> SO . . .you can not add insulation all the way around it . .
> 
> ...


http://www.westmarine.com/webapp/wc...tegory:Refrigeration+Conversion&storeId=10001


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## Jim-mi (May 15, 2002)

Well thanks booboo.
See . . .I wasn't kidding you....
Boy they shure are pricy now . . .

Thats about the same that I paid for my SunDanzer . . guess I'll stick with that.


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## DrippingSprings (Sep 22, 2004)

i have friends that are solar only and they dont even use a fridge in the winter. They build a really well secured box and just leave stuff in it out on the porch. 

I once left a pack of wieners on my truck seat for ten days while hunting and they were just as fresh as when i put them there. 

depends on where you live I suppose. We have many days of between 50 daytime and below freezing at night. From around nov to middle to late feb usually


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## Jim-mi (May 15, 2002)

Another thought occures:
I would still take that refridge stuff from westmarine, and the compressor in my SunDanzer(Danfoss--the best) to a compressor made in chinnna.

Shall we say
One is made for a cheap price tag.
And the other is quality---stuff that will last.

How do you fight todays *mind set* of the wallfart pricetag over Quality products. .?????????


rant off


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## fishhead (Jul 19, 2006)

An off grid friend of mine uses a 110V Haier fridge. He said the cost of a 12V was much higher than converting the voltage.

Would it be possible to take the cooling coils out of the wall of the fridge and put them away from the fridge so it could be super insulated?

For most of our MN winter a person could use the fridge like an ice box and freeze containers of water outside and rotate them into the fridge as needed.


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## mightybooboo (Feb 10, 2004)

Blu3duk said:


> a big ole 21 ft chest freezer that was her folks [both had passed away and none of the other kids wanted it] and other than it was built back in the 1960s, it is not bad at all. .


Would love to see what the Kill o watt meter says about that one.Some of those old suckers pulled some SERIOUS juice.

Can you check it?


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## mightybooboo (Feb 10, 2004)

fishhead said:


> An off grid friend of mine uses a 110V Haier fridge. He said the cost of a 12V was much higher than converting the voltage.
> 
> For most of our MN winter a person could use the fridge like an ice box and freeze containers of water outside and rotate them into the fridge as needed.


I disagree with your friend.He is wasting very expensive home generated power.IMO.

But some good points are being made here.For us folks in cold climates in the winter,who needs a refer?

In Portland we had a deep set south facing window.We didnt use refer in winter,put it all on the shelf between window and the screen.It also had a bush that covered window outside.

Milk would have ice in it in the morning,it worked GREAT!

Me thinks weve lost some valuable old knowledge and just been brainwashed by Reddy Kilowatt


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## Jim-mi (May 15, 2002)

And the . . . "Self Defrosting"

Why that saves you time and a mess . . .This is more better ?

And icecubes that spit out of the door.

Why that saves you time . . . . .

. .>BIGGER IS MORE BETTER<

lazy brain washed sheep__ -


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## Blu3duk (Jun 2, 2002)

mightybooboo said:


> Would love to see what the Kill o watt meter says about that one.Some of those old suckers pulled some SERIOUS juice.
> 
> Can you check it?


I will have to finally break down and purchase one o those handy dandy meters that measures such..... I have not been so worried over the few dollars it costs as it has saved on the food bills over all, that appliance will hold half a beef, 2 deer, 40-eleven chickens and a partidge outta the pear tree. and when it aint full of meat, I fill jugs of water to take up the unused space which keeps it from running as much.

William


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## mightybooboo (Feb 10, 2004)

Blu3duk said:


> I have not been so worried over the few dollars it costs as it has saved on the food bills over all, that appliance will hold half a beef, 2 deer, 40-eleven chickens and a partidge outta the pear tree. and when it aint full of meat, I fill jugs of water to take up the unused space which keeps it from running as much.
> 
> William


True.We only buy meat on sale,then 'shop' out of the freezer.

Save a bundle!


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## Jim-mi (May 15, 2002)

"40-eleven chickens" . . . lol

haven't heard that one for more than a bit.....lol


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## Blu3duk (Jun 2, 2002)

Gald to break in with a little humour ...... I also have a couple of salmon and steelhead from the local river in there at times, a person can only eat so much and they are only in season a short time..... but I digress.

William


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## Seeria (Jul 21, 2006)

Good thread, thanks all. Having lived out of an extreme cooler for nearly a year now (traveling), I don't think moving over to a chest style frig will be hard at all!  Sundanzer looks great


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## okie-steading (Jul 19, 2007)

Jim-mi said:


> And the . . . "Self Defrosting"
> 
> Why that saves you time and a mess . . .This is more better ?
> 
> ...


BUT; in regards to the ice in the door -- i would imagine that it would be more efficient to use that rather than opening the freezer door, grabbing some ice cubes and then possibly having to fill the trays again. opening that door lets a lot of cold air out. with a dispenser, just a little door opens.


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## wy_white_wolf (Oct 14, 2004)

That ice maker is a hole in the door that has very little insulation so it loses energy all the time.


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## Jim-mi (May 15, 2002)

Yes to loosing a bunch of 'cold' if your opening a vertical fridge door.
That would be the salesman's line's for selling the guzzler that he has on the floor.
"And it is so handy" "And you will save 9.3 seconds of your precious time when ever you need a icecube."

If you choose this vitally important convience over efficiency then so be it.

You Will Pay For It.

rant off


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## SolarGary (Sep 8, 2005)

Hi,

If you run the numbers, losing the cold air inside an upright fridge when you open the door does not seem to amount to a big heat loss:

(15 ft^3) (0.075 lb/ft^3) (70F - 35F) (0.24 BTU/lb-F) = 9 BTU 

This says that when you open the door, you loose 15 cubic feet of air at 35F, this weighs (15)(0.075) = 1.1 lbs, and it takes (0.24 BTU/lb)(1.1 lbs)(70F-35F) to cool this air down = 9 BTU.

or 0.0028 KWH per door opening -- if you open the door 10 times a day, its 0.03 KWH per day. 

Surprisingly small, but I think the calcs are correct?

Gary


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## Doc1 (Oct 15, 2007)

Hi,

I'm new here and find this to be a very nice forum! 

We have a converted school bus whichwe use for hurricane evacuation. After Katrina - which destroyed our home - I lived in it for several months and generated all of my electicity with alternators and modified sine wave inverters.

At the time, the bus had a 120 amp alternator which fed a modest battery bank and a Xantrex 1500/3000 inverter. My main source of power was from our little Isuzu diesel P'up which I'd equipped with a rewound 200 amp Delco 22SI. This fed a Wagan 3000/6000 watt inverter.

My usual protocol was to fire up the Isuzu briefly once or twice a day to power my 115 vac needs and charge batteries. 

The bus is equipped with a small Haier chest freezer and this ran fine for a period of months off of the inverter current. I never measured the current draw, but I rarely ran the Isuzu for more than 30 minutes to an hour on any given day. This was primarily to operate things like electric chainsaws and the well pump. The freezer was really an afterthought, current wise, but it stayed cold throughout the period. I *think* the rating on the little freezer is 1.5 amps @ 115vac, but the bus is locked up at the moment and it's raining outside...so I ain't a gonna check it just now ;-)

I have no idea how well this set up would work over a period of years, but it did sterling service for the relatrively short time I needed it.

Best regards
Doc


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## mightybooboo (Feb 10, 2004)

Hi Doc1

Nice to have you here!


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