# Who is willing to work towards more adult conversations?



## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

Okay I am putting it out there.

I want the name calling and put downs to stop. I don't want to see it on either side. I want to know who is willing to make the change and who is not.

Are we going to work as a group to cut out the hate?

Please speak up.


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## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

No problem whatsoever. If you want respect, give respect.


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## Shine (Feb 19, 2011)

I have found the written word to be quite a difficult medium for the exchange of ideas. I do find it helpful to read things in a mono-tone voice to remove my own biases. [no, that doesn't work 100%]


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## Scott SW Ohio (Sep 20, 2003)

I'm in.


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## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

I personally have a problem with name calling of politicians and the put down names for the left and right. Bleeding heart liberal is a put down.


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## no really (Aug 7, 2013)

I don't feel like I have a side simply an opinion, all for discussions without insults.


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## Ozarks Tom (May 27, 2011)

Hmmm, suggested by the person with more deleted posts than any current member. Ok, I'll play, I've had one deleted post 2 years ago.


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## where I want to (Oct 28, 2008)

How do you know how many posts have been deleted? I've run up quite a few lately.


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## Ozarks Tom (May 27, 2011)

Just casual observation. Not the championship I'd be vying for, but go for it.


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## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

Ozarks Tom said:


> Hmmm, suggested by the person with more deleted posts than any current member. Ok, I'll play, I've had one deleted post 2 years ago.


Deleted because I insulted someone or deleted because I quoted the person who insulted someone? I think you should do that tally and you might just find you are incorrect. Of course that would be of the threads that did not get deleted as well.

I could make a snide remark in return but I was hoping we could move forward. Is moving forward something you want to do?


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## where I want to (Oct 28, 2008)

painterswife said:


> Deleted because I insulted someone or deleted because I quoted the person who insulted someone? I think you should do that tally and you might just find you are incorrect. Of course that would be of the threads that did not get deleted as well.
> 
> I could make a snide remark in return but I was hoping we could move forward. Is moving forward something you want to do?


And now you see why an individual is not a good judge of what others should say. Everyone know what has irritated themselves but is pretty poor at seeing its importance in the larger scheme of things.


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## Ozarks Tom (May 27, 2011)

Now, if the posts were deleted, how would I know? The irony just struck me as funny, sorry if you're insulted.


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

> Now, if the posts were deleted, *how would I know*?


By reading the reason that is generally posted?


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## where I want to (Oct 28, 2008)

Ozarks Tom said:


> Now, if the posts were deleted, how would I know? The irony just struck me as funny, sorry if you're insulted.


Tease.


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## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

Ozarks Tom said:


> Now, if the posts were deleted, how would I know? The irony just struck me as funny, sorry if you're insulted.


Actually the number of my deleted posts don't bother me one way or another most of the time. There have been a few times where I have really crossed the line and I was happy they were deleted because I should not have said it in the first place. In those circumstances I pm'd the person and apologized to them directly as well.

Quite often the deleted posts have the content removed and an explanation why in the thread. There are also the circumstance where the whole thread is deleted and you can not see who had delete posts.


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## kasilofhome (Feb 10, 2005)

where I want to said:


> Tease.


Truth


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## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

kasilofhome said:


> Truth


Are you willing to stop calling people abominations?


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## Fennick (Apr 16, 2013)

> I want the name calling and put downs to stop. I don't want to see it on either side. I want to know who is willing to make the change and who is not.


PW, I think what you're wanting is asking too much from everybody, including yourself if you can't restrain your own self from rising to bait as you just did here rising to Tom's bait. 

No offense intended because I do understand and relate to what you're trying to achieve but I think you worded the title of the thread and the above quote the wrong way and it will just get people's backs up. I want adult conversation. I don't want this and that. I want this and that. I want you to stop doing this and that. It makes it sound like you have control issues and you want to make people think and say only what is agreeable to you. 

Life doesn't work that way and you can't control or change what people say online, or what they think. There are too many people with too many cultural differences and fully, permanently engrained perspectives, perceptions, points of view, etc. and it's not practical to want everybody to change their habits and to drop all of that and converse the way you want.

I think the best you can do is try to not respond to the things you personally find offensive. They may not be offensive to other people or to the people who said those things. They may not even realize they're saying things that are offensive to other people.

There's some people online that I think are vomitous, abominable pigs. There, I just said it too - abominations. Some of the things they say make my gag reflex kick in and I know if we were face to face I would want to throttle them. I have to give myself a pat on the back every time I restrain myself from responding to their garbage, recognizing that if I did respond I'd be bringing myself down to their level. Sometimes it's hard to do and sometimes (all too often) I can't restrain myself and come out with a knee-jerk response when I know I shouldn't. One thing I do accept about them though is that they can't be changed and they wouldn't want to or know how to change themselves because as far as they're concerned they are normal and right and everyone else isn't.

Everyone is different, everyone is an individual who didn't come out of a single Borg mold. May as well get used to each individual expressing what they think. Take what works for you and ignore or discard the rest.


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## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

Fennick said:


> PW, I think what you're wanting is asking too much from everybody, including yourself if you can't restrain your own self from rising to bait as you just did here rising to Tom's bait.
> 
> No offense intended because I do understand and relate to what you're trying to achieve but I think you worded the title of the thread and the above quote the wrong way and it will just get people's backs up. I want adult conversation. I don't want this and that. I want this and that. I want you to stop doing this and that. It makes it sound like you have control issues and you want to make people think and say only what is agreeable to you.
> 
> ...


Can't get to the future if I don't take the first step. Might not get there today but I am interested in who is willing to try with me.


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## Fennick (Apr 16, 2013)

painterswife said:


> Can't get to the future if I don't take the first step. Might not get there today but I am interested in who is willing to try with me.


Well then I think you're in the wrong place for that. If you want to influence the future you have to do that with young people who represent the future, not a bunch of tight old knots who are set in their ways.


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## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

Fennick said:


> Well then I think you're in the wrong place for that. If you want to influence the future you have to do that with young people who represent the future, not a bunch of tight old knots who are set in their ways.


The future here on this forum. 

Does that mean you don't want things to change around here?


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## Fennick (Apr 16, 2013)

painterswife said:


> The future here on this forum.
> 
> Does that mean you don't *want* things to change around here?


First, let me say that I consider your above response to be a challenge to me. The way you've worded it I see it as bait that you're hoping I will rise to because you disagree with what I've said, *you want* me to explain myself and you're looking for an argument with me in the hopes of YOU making ME change my mind. You're not going to change my mind about anything I said above but I have chosen to answer your challenge and explain myself.

I'm not worried about the future of this forum. The forum will survive or it will die, it's not my problem, not my responsibility, not something I stress myself over. I enjoy reading and posting here but if the forum dies I will find something else suitable for me and I won't miss this forum. 

If it survives and if I continue to enjoy reading and posting here, then I will remain. If it no longer entertains me then I'll go away and nobody who remains here will miss me. 

No, I don't want to change things around here. It's not my concern and not my place to try to change how other people think or express themselves. I have no desire to try to control other people. 

I have no desire to try to change or control how the owners, administration and moderators of this forum conduct their business. It is their business to conduct as they see fit, not mine. I think if other people don't like the way this forum conducts its business then they should find somewhere else that's more suitable to them, not try to change this forum to be conducted the way they see fit.

No offense intended to anyone, but it's just not that important to me and I have to look at it as though nobody who participates here is real. It's just an internet forum and the forum is made up of personas created by people who project what they want to project, not what somebody else wants them to project. None of it is real life.


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## Old Vet (Oct 15, 2006)

Every Body needs to be PC. None of the name calling no matter how you feel about the subject. Just think in in your head and not put it down. That way the liberals win every time.


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## Evons hubby (Oct 3, 2005)

I have been posting here for quite a few years and have only had a few deleted posts, most because I had commented on someone else post that got deleted. I try to argue the topic, not the person making the post. I am also reasonably thick skinned and do not engage in the snide remarks that lead to some really hateful posts. In answer to the op's question... yes I would like to see more adult type discussion, and less throwing 2 year old type tantrums.


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## oneraddad (Jul 20, 2010)

Is what HT needs is more black and gay threads with some politics and religion tossed in.


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## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

Old Vet said:


> Every Body needs to be PC. None of the name calling no matter how you feel about the subject. Just think in in your head and not put it down. *That way the liberals win every time.*


C'mon. Was that needed? The post was great right up until that last sentence.


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## Tricky Grama (Oct 7, 2006)

painterswife said:


> I personally have a problem with name calling of politicians and the put down names for the left and right. Bleeding heart liberal is a put down.


I'm really sorry to tell you that politicians aren't immune. They take it daily. No one here thinks they can log on to GC or Politics and see all of 'em called Your Highness.
If you are looking for no insults to ANY & ALL members who come to HT, I'm ALL in.
In fact it was working quite well a few months ago...

Now, If you're expecting some if not all here to adhere to a elementary school idea of NOT expressing views/titles/adjectives of some of the most vile creatures on the planet-you're outta luck.

I could see 'bleeding heart liberal' going...I've never used that term. 
And since nearly all of our non-conservative friends have told us a number of times that they are 'moderates', I'm not sure why the labels & the facts reported on the "FAR left" would bother anyone.

Good try tho.


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## Evons hubby (Oct 3, 2005)

sorry, double post


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## Evons hubby (Oct 3, 2005)

Fennick said:


> No offense intended to anyone, but it's just not that important to me and I have to look at it as though nobody who participates here is real. It's just an internet forum and the forum is made up of personas created by people who project what they want to project, not what somebody else wants them to project. *None of it is real life.*


I have heard this before... and I still dont beleive it. The people who post here are quite real and have very real feelings, along with valid thoughts and opinions. I have had the opportunity to meet with several that post on this board and they are very real.


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## arabian knight (Dec 19, 2005)

Old Vet said:


> Every Body needs to be PC. None of the name calling no matter how you feel about the subject. Just think in in your head and not put it down. That way the liberals win every time.


 The have been doing that for way too long. Things will change.


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## Tricky Grama (Oct 7, 2006)

Fennick said:


> First, let me say that I consider your above response to be a challenge to me. The way you've worded it I see it as bait that you're hoping I will rise to because you disagree with what I've said, *you want* me to explain myself and you're looking for an argument with me in the hopes of YOU making ME change my mind. You're not going to change my mind about anything I said above but I have chosen to answer your challenge and explain myself.
> 
> I'm not worried about the future of this forum. The forum will survive or it will die, it's not my problem, not my responsibility, not something I stress myself over. I enjoy reading and posting here but if the forum dies I will find something else suitable for me and I won't miss this forum.
> 
> ...


Post of the day award.


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## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

Tricky Grama said:


> I'm really sorry to tell you that politicians aren't immune. They take it daily. No one here thinks they can log on to GC or Politics and see all of 'em called Your Highness.
> If you are looking for no insults to ANY & ALL members who come to HT, I'm ALL in.
> In fact it was working quite well a few months ago...
> 
> ...


I have no problem with anyone calling Hillary or me an idiot because of something we say. It is the names that are only meant to put people or parties or entire groups down. When someone says all liberals lie or all conservatives are racist. If I say something racist then hit me head on with it. Talk to me about my actions but please do not say that I am liberal so I automatically want to murder all children or that I believe that everyone should get a free ride.


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## Tricky Grama (Oct 7, 2006)

Old Vet said:


> Every Body needs to be PC. None of the name calling no matter how you feel about the subject. Just think in in your head and not put it down. That way the liberals win every time.


Ban it & give everyone a trophy.


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## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

painterswife said:


> I have no problem with anyone calling Hillary or me an idiot because of something we say. It is the names that are only meant to put people or parties or entire groups down. When someone says all liberals lie or all conservatives are racist. If I say something racist then hit me head on with it. Talk to me about my actions but please do not say that I am liberal so I automatically want to murder all children or that I believe that everyone should get a free ride.


x10. Or chastise non-believers with your church dogma. It's disrespectful, and tends to rile up people the same way that having their religious views disrespected does. How about no blanket statements like "All pro choice people think abortion is wonderful." It's not true.


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## DEKE01 (Jul 17, 2013)

so if i say the current pres is lazy, undisciplined, a racist, and a disaster for this county, is that name calling or a statement of facts?


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## Jolly (Jan 8, 2004)

painterswife said:


> Okay I am putting it out there.
> 
> I want the name calling and put downs to stop. I don't want to see it on either side. I want to know who is willing to make the change and who is not.
> 
> ...


Want in one hand...


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## Evons hubby (Oct 3, 2005)

DEKE01 said:


> so if i say the current pres is lazy, undisciplined, a racist, and a disaster for this county, is that name calling or a statement of facts?


That would be a statement of facts. If you said he was a liberal lilly livered weinie that would be name calling, and would be terribly offensive to liberal lilly livered weinies everywhere!


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## Fennick (Apr 16, 2013)

Are we all having an adult conversation now? :happy2:

May I offer my thoughts about the following quote:



painterswife said:


> I have no problem with anyone calling Hillary or me an idiot because of something we say. It is the names that are only meant to put people or parties or entire groups down. When someone says *all liberals* lie or *all conservatives* are racist*.* If I say something racist then hit me head on with it. Talk to me about my actions but please *do not say that I am liberal so I automatically want to* murder all children or that I believe that everyone should get a free ride.


I do recognize how you see this kind of phenomenon as a problem. Is it because you come from a place where people are not obsessive about liberalism and conservatism, not consumed in their daily life with social politics?

Here's my thoughts on the matter, take it or leave it. It's a phenomena that I see to this extremity only in a very few nations, not all nations, and of those nations who do exhibit the phenomenon, some are much worse and more polarized that others. America happens to be one of the more extreme. 

Recognize it for what it is. A cultural obsession to think in terms of liberal or conservative as 'the other guy', the enemy that must be fought. Everybody has to have an enemy to fight. If they don't have an enemy then they'll create an enemy because they feel their life is not worth living if they don't have an enemy to fight. So, the liberal or the conservative as the enemy has become an obsession for many people that has become engrained, a part of the fabric of the nation and literally programmed into people over the course of the past couple of hundred years or more. 

Not everybody in the nation is like that but there are still many who are incapable of thinking or making any statement that isn't influenced by their obsession to insert the word "liberal" or "conservative" as the enemy into anything they express. It's permanently fixed into their psyche. An obsession is a type of mental illness and this is one of those programmed illnesses that's kind of like Tourettes Syndrome in some ways. I don't think it can be fixed with a pill or with counselling and adult conversation or asking people "please be nice". The only way to fix it is to not program it into future generations.

Just my thoughts on the matter - at least that is how I view and respond to people who are afflicted with this obsession. They are ill.


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## arabian knight (Dec 19, 2005)

Tricky Grama said:


> Ban it & give everyone a trophy.


 I think its time some better take this to heart. And grow into a better pair of panties. Instead of in a knot all the time.


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## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

DEKE01 said:


> so if i say the current pres is lazy, undisciplined, a racist, and a disaster for this county, is that name calling or a statement of facts?





Jolly said:


> Want in one hand...





Yvonne's hubby said:


> That would be a statement of facts. If you said he was a liberal lilly livered weinie that would be name calling, and would be terribly offensive to liberal lilly livered weinies everywhere!


This is why we can't have nice things. :happy2:


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## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

arabian knight said:


> I think its time some better take this to heart. And grow into a better pair of panties. Instead of in a knot all the time.


I think I can work at both.


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## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

DEKE01 said:


> so if i say the current pres is lazy, undisciplined, a racist, and a disaster for this county, is that name calling or a statement of facts?


Speaking only for myself. I have no problem with it.


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## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

Fennick said:


> Are we all having an adult conversation now? :happy2:
> 
> May I offer my thoughts about the following quote:
> 
> ...


Yes, it is true I find this "sides" thing a bit much but my husband a born American and many of my other born American friends have a problem with it as well.

I also don't believe it is so ingrained that we as adults can't move past it in our discussions. In fact I have seen proof of that possibility often here on HT. I also don't want to ever treat people with different views as ill. I know that if I sat down with the people I argue with the most at a dinner table somewhere, we could both find common ground.


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## Evons hubby (Oct 3, 2005)

Irish Pixie said:


> This is why we can't have nice things. :happy2:


Ok, ya lost me there. I dont know about you but we (my Yvonne and I) have lots of nice things. :shrug:


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## gapeach (Dec 23, 2011)

DEKE01 said:


> so if i say the current pres is lazy, undisciplined, a racist, and a disaster for this county, is that name calling or a statement of facts?


The Gospel truth or a statement of facts! Either one works.


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## Fennick (Apr 16, 2013)

painterswife said:


> Yes, it is true I find this "sides" thing a bit much but my husband a born American and many of my other born American friends have a problem with it as well.
> 
> I also don't believe it is so ingrained that we as adults can't move past it in our discussions. In fact I have seen proof of that possibility often here on HT. *I also don't want to ever treat people with different views as ill.* I know that if I sat down with the people I argue with the most at a dinner table somewhere, we could both find common ground.


I'm not talking about people with different views. I don't consider having different views as being an illness. Different views is what makes the world go around, it's what keeps mankind continuously evolving instead of stagnating and going extinct. I'm talking strictly about people who are obsessed with whatever their personal 'enemy' is as being 'liberal' or 'conservative' and using those two words as epithets.


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## Fennick (Apr 16, 2013)

DEKE01 said:


> so if i say the current pres is lazy, undisciplined, a racist, and a disaster for this county, is that name calling or a statement of facts?


It's your opinion. You are stating what you consider to be facts to you but they might or might not be true. They would only be facts for you and those who hold the same opinion. To people who hold the exact opposite opinion you would be stating a lie.


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## Evons hubby (Oct 3, 2005)

Fennick said:


> It's your opinion. You are stating what you consider to be facts to you but they might or might not be true. They would only be facts for you and those who hold the same opinion. To people who hold the exact opposite opinion you would be stating a lie.


People who hold the opposite opinion about Obama are simply mistaken. Facts are facts.... in spite of what some folks believe.


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## where I want to (Oct 28, 2008)

painterswife said:


> I have no problem with anyone calling Hillary or me an idiot because of something we say. It is the names that are only meant to put people or parties or entire groups down. When someone says all liberals lie or all conservatives are racist. If I say something racist then hit me head on with it. Talk to me about my actions but please do not say that I am liberal so I automatically want to murder all children or that I believe that everyone should get a free ride.


There is a serious difference. For one thing, I find that calling anyone an idiot is uncivil- and the more they seem to deserve it, the less I like it. There are people you can call whatever you want and it just rolls off but there are people that are insecure about it enough that it damages. Then they either strike back or go away. Maybe that is a goal for some- to shut them up- but I rather not as on occasion I have had someone say something simple at right time to shake up my thinking. 
On the other hand, calling a person a liberal or conservative depersonalizes the attack. It may miss the mark or may (and usually does) lead to invalid assumptions but it allows room for discussion at least as to what a liberal or conservative is.
Beside it is really just a short hand for the truth that believing in a certain value does actually lead to similar positions on a lot of issues.


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## Old Vet (Oct 15, 2006)

gapeach said:


> The Gospel truth or a statement of facts! Either one works.


Oh you cant mean that the liberals will call you racist. Don't confuse them with facts.


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## where I want to (Oct 28, 2008)

painterswife said:


> Yes, it is true I find this "sides" thing a bit much but my husband a born American and many of my other born American friends have a problem with it as well.
> 
> I also don't believe it is so ingrained that we as adults can't move past it in our discussions. In fact I have seen proof of that possibility often here on HT. I also don't want to ever treat people with different views as ill. I know that if I sat down with the people I argue with the most at a dinner table somewhere, we could both find common ground.


The specific words are not engrained but the tendency use some words as short hand certainly are. Everyone has a good idea what a "helicopter mom" is, at least in probably what she considers most important. And there are million of such words- cowboy, *******, bully, racist, citified, whiner, back stabber, scrooge, etc etc etc. And using them aggressively. 
If you managed to train every person here today, tomorrow there will be more needing training. I think its better to learn how to civilly disagree and how to survive disagreements intact.
Finding common ground is only useful if there is something to achieve as a group. It would surprise me if that is a goal here at all. We have no use for consensus, otherwise we would have opted out of viewing this discordant subforum. 
Posting here has toughed me up a good bit and I needed it. I have found that getting along is highly overrated as long as there are a few boundaries to not getting along. And it's nice to be able to log off when wanted, which is not always possible in real life.
But I do think that your attempt to achieve it here is very endearing. And that is said without sarcasm.


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## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

It seems to be that most are saying don't bother. You either like the arguments and taking it to the gutter or you just don't care. I just don't understand why so many are complaining about the nature of the discussions here if they don't think we should try to change it.


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## watcher (Sep 4, 2006)

I'm old, sarcastic, opinionated, bossy, don't give an airborne rodent's rectum what you think or say about me and can be caustic. I tell people all the time, if I do something that offends you tell me and I'll most likely apologize but I'll probably do it again because that's just how I am.

Also I'm mostly a mirror. If you are nice to me I'm nice to you. You get snarky with me expect the same. I've had long debates with people who at totally wrong  and there was never a cross word because we each were just expression logical opinions on the point. But I've also had debates with people who refused to play nice and that resulted in me switching to I.D. 10 T mode of operation. 

My caustic side comes out when people refuse to answer direct questions put to them in order to clarify their POV. Or when they reply to a line of logic with some 'touchy-feely' thing which in no way counters the logic. 

Also there's a difference in name calling and labeling. Saying that you are a X because the words you post line up with what most X say/believe isn't calling you a name. 

Lastly if things get bad enough follow the advice my grandfather told me LONG ago. The more you poke at a pile of dog. . .ah. . .waste (grandpa's language wouldn't be allowed on the board) the more its going to stink. If someone really starts getting up your nose then just don't read their post.


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## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

painterswife said:


> It seems to be that most are saying don't bother. You either like the arguments and taking it to the gutter or you just don't care. I just don't understand why so many are complaining about the nature of the discussions here if they don't think we should try to change it.


Yup. You tried.


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## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

watcher said:


> I'm old, sarcastic, opinionated, bossy, don't give an airborne rodent's rectum what you think or say about me and can be caustic. I tell people all the time, if I do something that offends you tell me and I'll most likely apologize but I'll probably do it again because that's just how I am.
> 
> Also I'm mostly a mirror. If you are nice to me I'm nice to you. You get snarky with me expect the same. I've had long debates with people who at totally wrong  and there was never a cross word because we each were just expression logical opinions on the point. But I've also had debates with people who refused to play nice and that resulted in me switching to I.D. 10 T mode of operation.
> 
> ...


I completely agree with you Watcher. I can give as good as I get and I can enjoy it immensely. I was under the impression that many here were unhappy with the way things were going. I thought there could be some give and take to find a happy median. Looks like there might be no point.


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## where I want to (Oct 28, 2008)

painterswife said:


> It seems to be that most are saying don't bother. You either like the arguments and taking it to the gutter or you just don't care. I just don't understand why so many are complaining about the nature of the discussions here if they don't think we should try to change it.


I'm complaining about the tactics. Because it is a deliberate attempt to control through bullying. That is not debate- that is anti-debate. And there are plenty enough rules to stop it if the will was there.


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## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

where I want to said:


> I'm complaining about the tactics. Because it is a deliberate attempt to control through bullying. And there are plenty enough rules to stop it if the will was there.


That would be your opinion. My opinion is it is just a bunch of members sick of name calling and retaliating with a bit of enjoyment thrown it to make it spicy.


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## Tricky Grama (Oct 7, 2006)

Irish Pixie said:


> This is why we can't have nice things. :happy2:


Post of the day award.

But I spewed wine on my iPad. Just too funny. Right up there with: "well, that's what ya get!"


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## Tricky Grama (Oct 7, 2006)

Yvonne's hubby said:


> Ok, ya lost me there. I dont know about you but we (my Yvonne and I) have lots of nice things. :shrug:


YH, it's a mom thing...exasperated mom thing. Like after seeing cocoa spilled all over the new sectional...


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## Harry Chickpea (Dec 19, 2008)

Maybe there could be a Liberal vs. Conservative forum, complete with lots of club and mace emoticons? Some folks get jollies baiting, teasing, and raising blood pressure. A place for such play could be fine. 

I do find myself skipping more threads in this forum, but that is just me. I consider chat as a place to hash things out, not so much to fight.


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## arabian knight (Dec 19, 2005)

Harry Chickpea said:


> Maybe there could be a Liberal vs. Conservative forum, complete with lots of club and mace emoticons? Some folks get jollies baiting, teasing, and raising blood pressure. A place for such play could be fine.
> 
> I do find myself skipping more threads in this forum, but that is just me. I consider chat as a place to hash things out, not so much to fight.


And a fewer should be doing just that if they can't take some constructive criticism. Those that believe in conservatism sure don't have a lock on name calling. many then not it is started or implied by the liberal fractions that seem to think that they are the only ones that have the answers going forward and do not bends what so ever. does it ever occur to them that just maybe things are not working their way and a more stance toward the middle is better for all?


----------



## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

Pretty funny.


----------



## Oxankle (Jun 20, 2003)

Sheesh, what is it with you Painters Wife? Why do you mention hate? We don't hate anyone. It is not necessary to hate someone just because they are ignorant, stupid or just liberal. I would never engage in conversation with someone I hated. Stupid, I would, but not someone I hated.


----------



## Roadking (Oct 8, 2009)

It sure has change around here... sad.

Matt


----------



## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

Roadking said:


> It sure has change around here... sad.
> Matt


I see very little change, other than some of the names


----------



## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

> I just don't understand why so many are complaining about the nature of the discussions here if they don't think we should try to change it.


Some complain when they are faced with facts that don't fit their preconceived notions.

Others complain when the arguments don't go in their favor, but I think many complain because it's human nature.


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## Ozarks Tom (May 27, 2011)

I go to the other forums like Questions, Family, Shop, Sheep, Canning to see if either I can learn something or maybe help someone with a problem I might know something about.

I come to GC and Politics for fun. I'm not under any delusion that my comments will change anyone's mind. The fun is watching people of the other persuasion apoplectic when confronted with facts and logic. I'm always amazed that some people think emotional appeals win arguments.

Anyway, I'd like to apologize to anyone who has taken any of my comments as insults. I'd like to, but I won't.


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

painterswife said:


> Okay I am putting it out there.
> 
> I want the name calling and put downs to stop. I don't want to see it on either side. I want to know who is willing to make the change and who is not.
> 
> ...


This amazes me on so many levels.

So you are the arbiter of what qualifies as "adult conversation"? Who put you in that position, maybe a coup?

Why get so upset about something you have no control of, where you wish you did, oh do you wish you could control all the conversations to validate your less than conventional sense of convention.

I may have let slip calling someone a name. I called the Irish chick cute, but can't recall much worse than that.

Change, I ain't changing, and that is such a cause and concern for you and your type. Changing people to think like you. Hmm, no way wife of painter.

You get to decide what suits you and this little slice of the interweb. Nope.

Hate? You hate people on here? Really? I find people funny on here, smart on here, odd (really some are very odd) and some are real super duper. Some I would not spit on if they were on fire.

Change to adult conversation. You decide. Was that "adult" enough for you.

Wow.


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## popscott (Oct 6, 2004)

Opinions....
"If you're going to say what you want to say, you may have to hear what you don't want to hear."
Roberto BolaÃ±o


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## Vahomesteaders (Jun 4, 2014)

I believe pw may be Hillary Clinton incognito.


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## BlackFeather (Jun 17, 2014)

> Cow tipping is the purported activity of sneaking up on an unsuspecting upright cow and pushing it over for entertainment. The practice of cow tipping is generally considered an urban legend, as cows do not sleep standing up, and the implication that a cow can be pushed over and not stand up again is incorrect, as, unless injured, cows routinely lie down and can easily regain their footing. The implication that rural citizens seek such entertainment due to lack of other alternatives is also generally viewed as a stereotype.


 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cow_tipping

I try not to insult anyone but I love to go sacred cow tipping. I am a rural citizen who seeks such entertainment due to lack of alternatives. I guess I'm stereotypical. I don't think I could give this up. I hope you won't ask me to.


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

Vahomesteaders said:


> I believe pw may be Hillary Clinton incognito.


----------



## Lisa in WA (Oct 11, 2004)

Tricky Grama said:


> YH, it's a mom thing...exasperated mom thing. Like after seeing cocoa spilled all over the new sectional...


LOL....exactly. We were looking at sofas last week and my husband pointed out a lovely cream colored sectional. :happy2:

As if. We need something that will clean up and not show if a dog urps on it. 

And this is why we can't have anything nice. :happy2::hair


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## Lisa in WA (Oct 11, 2004)

Maybe what we really need is a cage fighting section for politics. No gloves and no holds barred. And no complaining and reporting posts if you don't like them. You go there at your own risk.


----------



## gibbsgirl (May 1, 2013)

Here's the thing to me. I really don't care what people say. No one is forcing people to click and read or click and respond.

So, just say what you mean and mean what you say.

And, expect that this will be a venue for communications that will frequently have miscommunications, cause it's only written and most communication, especially determining a person's intentions or context is non-verbal.

Let people say what they want and own the consequences of their lives own posts. Some will support, some will dispute, some will shun, some will skip or put on ignore, some will like, some will not.

I'm not terribly big on controlling or pressuring others actions or words. Not fond of them doing the same to me either.

The only thing I will say, is that if the people in charge felt it was a bit too contentious, i could respect the idea that they could select threads to be moved to a private area for members to go to only, if they wanted to be able to keep the publicly accessible side of HT less contentious.


----------



## Old Vet (Oct 15, 2006)

Vahomesteaders said:


> I believe pw may be Hillary Clinton incognito.


No she is not that bad yet.


----------



## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

basketti said:


> Maybe what we really need is a cage fighting section for politics. No gloves and no holds barred. And no complaining and reporting posts if you don't like them. You go there at your own risk.


I thought that was what politics might be. Nope. I started a thread about Bernie Sanders. I have never seen a thread with so many deleted posts.

Pretty wimpy, and you notice only three people in there since they locked it.

So much of what might have been there before the lock down is now out here, to the consternation of some. Unintended consequences and all..


----------



## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

Old Vet said:


> No she is not that bad yet.


Didn't you see the picture I posted? How much more proof do you need?


----------



## poppy (Feb 21, 2008)

watcher said:


> I'm old, sarcastic, opinionated, bossy, don't give an airborne rodent's rectum what you think or say about me and can be caustic. I tell people all the time, if I do something that offends you tell me and I'll most likely apologize but I'll probably do it again because that's just how I am.
> 
> Also I'm mostly a mirror. If you are nice to me I'm nice to you. You get snarky with me expect the same. I've had long debates with people who at totally wrong  and there was never a cross word because we each were just expression logical opinions on the point. But I've also had debates with people who refused to play nice and that resulted in me switching to I.D. 10 T mode of operation.
> 
> ...


I feel exactly the same. I tire of those always asking for tolerance since they are always the least tolerant. That trick has been a leftist staple forever. The feign a desire for understanding and cooperation but they only want it from you. It doesn't matter what words you use in disagreeing with them, they will always resort to calling you racist, homophobic, sexist, or some other label because they cannot win debates based on facts. Another tactic they use is bringing in red herring issues to shift the debate to another subject if they are losing. Why come to a forum where you disagree with the majority of posters and then try to change the rules to your advantage? There are plenty of leftist forums out there I'm sure. I do not go to any of them and then try to con them into accepting my conservative ideas, but then, I am a grown up.


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## JJ Grandits (Nov 10, 2002)

I actually like everyone here. Even the ones I disagree with. And yes, if they were on fire I would definitely spit on them. Several times if needed.

It's the kind of fair, open minded guy I am.


----------



## Woolieface (Feb 17, 2015)

How's this idea: the next contentious thread that comes along...everyone is required to type out a detailed description of their intended tone of voice. No guessing...yeah...that'll fix it. :happy2:


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## kasilofhome (Feb 10, 2005)

Sorry but I abide by the rules as they stand. Many of us us have. I post barefoot from day one and have not had a single post removed for personal attacking.

I will not voluntarily give up my freedom to post my views to meet new standards for appease someone because of political correctness.


I value my rights too much. Control the language control the people.


----------



## gibbsgirl (May 1, 2013)

Oops. This was a double post. Sorry.


----------



## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

No problem. I heard alot of complaining about the tone and tenor of the posts here. I thought I would extend the olive branch so to say and be the first to offer to make changes. It seems no one really wants to meet me halfway or even a little bit.


----------



## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

painterswife said:


> No problem. I heard alot of complaining about the tone and tenor of the posts here. I thought I would extend the olive branch so to say and be the first to offer to make changes. It seems no one really wants to meet me halfway or even a little bit.


Maybe if we thought you meant it, but I don't.

Actions speak louder than words. Act right, and you'l be treated right, speaking in the royal sense, of course.


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## mzgarden (Mar 16, 2012)

painterswife said:


> No problem. I heard alot of complaining about the tone and tenor of the posts here. I thought I would extend the olive branch so to say and be the first to offer to make changes. It seems no one really wants to meet me halfway or even a little bit.


I've quietly read through this string and I have to say this post appears to be indicative of an attempt to 'guilt' people into changing. This sounds very passive/agressive to me.
I tried, I'm right, I took the high road - you rejected me, you're wrong, you took the low road. This post continues to emphasize a line, IMO, between 'me' (trying to show you all the right path up and out of the mud and slop) and 'you' not knowing what's good and right and choosing to stay in the mud and slop.

Don't 'offer' to make a change but only if others will promise to make the change too.

Make the change because you think it's the right thing to do.

I personally don't like name calling, but I accept it happens.


----------



## Wolf mom (Mar 8, 2005)

arabian knight said:


> I think its time some better take this to heart. And grow into a better pair of panties. Instead of in a knot all the time.


Post of the Eon award! 

Whey you say something it reflects back on what type of a person you are - not the listener. I wish everyone would understand this. 

Hey, painterswife - have you ever read some of the posts on reddit?? You'd never complain about free speech here.


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## Cornhusker (Mar 20, 2003)

I'd be willing to have decent discussions.
I'm like a few others, having trouble buying the sincerity of the OP, but I'll give her the benefit of the doubt.
Now what do we talk about?


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## Tricky Grama (Oct 7, 2006)

HDRider said:


> Didn't you see the picture I posted? How much more proof do you need?


Hey! I posted pics too!
I didn't see yours, tho?


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

Tricky Grama said:


> Hey! I posted pics too!
> I didn't see yours, tho?


Mid page 4.


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## Tricky Grama (Oct 7, 2006)

HDRider said:


> This amazes me on so many levels.
> 
> So you are the arbiter of what qualifies as "adult conversation"? Who put you in that position, maybe a coup?
> 
> ...


Post of the day award.


----------



## oneraddad (Jul 20, 2010)

JJ Grandits said:


> I actually like everyone here. Even the ones I disagree with. And yes, if they were on fire I would definitely spit on them. Several times if needed.
> 
> It's the kind of fair, open minded guy I am.



Was this directed at the lady's ? Because you'd only spit on me once


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## JJ Grandits (Nov 10, 2002)

sir, I have never spit at you. I have a glandular problem.

Now I have disagreed with you. If that is considered spitting in you eyes there is not much to do about it.
Not that I would actually spit in your eyes. That is rude.

Even though I may argue and sometimes get creatively descriptive and sarcastic, I see HT as being a family. The kind that puts the "fun" in dysfunctional.


----------



## gapeach (Dec 23, 2011)

As far as I know, I have only had one post deleted and it was on the politics board last week. I posted a haggy looking picture of Hillary Clinton, not a cartoon but a real picture. It was deleted, reason: baiting.


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## where I want to (Oct 28, 2008)

gapeach said:


> As far as I know, I have only had one post deleted and it was on the politics board last week. I posted a haggy looking picture of Hillary Clinton, not a cartoon but a real picture. It was deleted, reason: baiting.


Yeah- that word has become an irritation to me too. It seems to have a highly variable definition.


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## popscott (Oct 6, 2004)

oneraddad said:


> Was this directed at the lady's ? Because you'd only spit on me once


If your profile picture is you, then it must be your fine feminine facial features that threw them off.


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## oneraddad (Jul 20, 2010)

JJ Grandits said:


> sir, I have never spit at you. I have a glandular problem.
> 
> Now I have disagreed with you. If that is considered spitting in you eyes there is not much to do about it.
> Not that I would actually spit in your eyes. That is rude.
> ...



Sorry I don't speak code, instead I type as if we were face to face.


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## Danaus29 (Sep 12, 2005)

I didn't read through all the posts because I don't have time for the petty bickering today. Just wanted to point out that for a thread about cutting out the name calling and petty bickering, it sure became just that very rapidly.


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## Tricky Grama (Oct 7, 2006)

gapeach said:


> As far as I know, I have only had one post deleted and it was on the politics board last week. I posted a haggy looking picture of Hillary Clinton, not a cartoon but a real picture. It was deleted, reason: baiting.


Are you kidding? Wow, some folks don't remember all the nasty uncalled for stuff we endured that flew about Palin...AND her children.


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## arabian knight (Dec 19, 2005)

You go that right. Some have such short memories don't they?


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## wr (Aug 10, 2003)

Tit for tat doesn't really work


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## kasilofhome (Feb 10, 2005)

Danaus29 said:


> I didn't read through all the posts because I don't have time for the petty bickering today. Just wanted to point out that for a thread about cutting out the name calling and petty bickering, it sure became just that very rapidly.


Sometimes facts line up that way. I consider sources when ideas come out. 
I do not trust folks who have not earned it. 

I disagree that it is petty to attempt to control freedom of speech even under the illusion of a peaceful resolution. There is oppression of freedoms to control the agenda.


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## kasilofhome (Feb 10, 2005)

wr said:


> Tit for tat doesn't really work


Surrendering one's values does not work either.

Understanding that words do not kill. That being offended should never be a crime.


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## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

kasilofhome said:


> Sometimes facts line up that way. I consider sources when ideas come out.
> I do not trust folks who have not earned it.
> 
> I disagree that it is petty to attempt to control freedom of speech even under the illusion of a peaceful resolution. There is oppression of freedoms to control the agenda.


What agenda. I asked if others wanted to changed the tone of discussions. A bunch don't, a bunch do and a bunch think it is some kind of liberal agenda to control the conversation.


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## kasilofhome (Feb 10, 2005)

We, in America have an election commuting up.
Financially we are upside down.
Our border is a joke
Are leaders are criminals who violated the trust by violating their oaths.
We have fundamental transformed our nation. Our history is changing 
Our culture of get up and work and reach to make the American dream true for each person by the sweat of their brow is abuse now.

As that is where we are we will fall unless we change our goals of what is the roll of government. So, controlling speech at this time will harm the chance to improve because it will take all ideas to be looked at.... not just the pretty ones.


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## Evons hubby (Oct 3, 2005)

kasilofhome said:


> Surrendering one's values does not work either.
> 
> Understanding that *words do not kill.* That being offended should never be a crime.


Of course words can kill.... many a thread on this forum have been killed simply because some posters opted to use words with an ugly intent.


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## wr (Aug 10, 2003)

Yvonne's hubby said:


> Of course words can kill.... many a thread on this forum have been killed simply because some posters opted to use words with an ugly intent.



I get the impression that is often the goal.


----------



## kasilofhome (Feb 10, 2005)

Yvonne's hubby said:


> Of course words can kill.... many a thread on this forum have been killed simply because some posters opted to use words with an ugly intent.


Was a death certificate needed. No, a thread while of value is not a life form.


----------



## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

The bit of free speech we have on here can die pretty quickly.


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## Evons hubby (Oct 3, 2005)

wr said:


> I get the impression that is often the goal.


I have often thought the same thing.


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## Evons hubby (Oct 3, 2005)

kasilofhome said:


> Was a death certificate needed. No, a thread while of value is not a life form.


You are welcome to believe that ifn ya wants too. The only requirement for anything to die is to be alive.... death certificates are NOT required. They can be handy in the case of a humans death for the purpose of settling an estate, but they are rarely the cause of death.


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

> So, *controlling speech* at this time will harm the chance to improve because it will take all ideas to be looked at.... not just the pretty ones.


I have no idea what makes you think someone can "control" the speech here simply by posting their own thoughts.

Are you really that easily lead?


----------



## watcher (Sep 4, 2006)

basketti said:


> Maybe what we really need is a cage fighting section for politics. No gloves and no holds barred. And no complaining and reporting posts if you don't like them. You go there at your own risk.


Isn't that what GC is supposed to be?


----------



## JJ Grandits (Nov 10, 2002)

oneraddad said:


> Sorry I don't speak code, instead I type as if we were face to face.


I'm sorry, I do not know what you mean by "code".

if we were face to face why would you bother typing? I mean, hey, Im standing right here.

Anyways, I don't use any codes and I don't spit at people. Codes are boring and spitting is rude.


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## Lisa in WA (Oct 11, 2004)

watcher said:


> Isn't that what GC is supposed to be?


No. Does it say "no holds barred" in the rules?


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## 1948CaseVAI (May 12, 2014)

painterswife said:


> I personally have a problem with name calling of politicians and the put down names for the left and right. Bleeding heart liberal is a put down.


I guess you just outed you own bias then. In my humble opinion there is no way to debate a person with liberal leanings and not be accused of horrible things because they see people who disagree as inferior and hateful. If I was not inferior and hateful I would always agree with you - and that pretty much ends discussion right there.

Nice try for civility I guess, but you are chasing "unobtanium" - that which does not exist in the adult world.


----------



## Old Vet (Oct 15, 2006)

basketti said:


> No. Does it say "no holds barred" in the rules?


It should but they have rules. Only PC and the like are in the rules.


----------



## Patchouli (Aug 3, 2011)

The only thing that really bothers me anymore in threads is when 2 or 3 people get into a bickering fit over something petty. Like you meant this and no I didn't and on and on for whole pages. I am getting better at skimming.  

I don't mind a strong discussion or even a heated one. A bit of snark can lighten things up. There just has to be some sort of actual exchange of facts and discussion of the topic going on. Quibbling a point into the ground is just tiresome.


----------



## JJ Grandits (Nov 10, 2002)

You got that right.


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## DEKE01 (Jul 17, 2013)

wr said:


> Tit for tat doesn't really work


That's for sure. Just the other day I walked up to a beautiful young lady and with great hope, offered her tat. But all I got was a slap in the face. 


:drum:



:facepalm:


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## AmericanStand (Jul 29, 2014)

Maybe she didn't think tats were worth as much as


----------



## AmericanStand (Jul 29, 2014)

basketti said:


> No. Does it say "no holds barred" in the rules?



I think it was politics that used to require flame proof undies.


----------



## AmericanStand (Jul 29, 2014)

kasilofhome said:


> Our culture of get up and work and reach to make the American dream true for each person by the sweat of their brow is abuse now..



I don't think that has ever been our culture we are a nation based on getting rich by getting lucky. 

Don't get me wrong lots of people have achieved good secure lives with hard work but I think the culture has always been based on striking gold.


----------



## poppy (Feb 21, 2008)

1948CaseVAI said:


> I guess you just outed you own bias then. In my humble opinion there is no way to debate a person with liberal leanings and not be accused of horrible things because they see people who disagree as inferior and hateful. If I was not inferior and hateful I would always agree with you - and that pretty much ends discussion right there.
> 
> Nice try for civility I guess, but you are chasing "unobtanium" - that which does not exist in the adult world.


Very well said. I've been on here several years and it has always been that way. Liberals do not base their debates on facts. If you say the flamboyant gays in weird clothes hurt the gay cause by holding parades, you are immediately branded a homophobe. If you say government welfare programs have hurt inner city blacks, you are branded a racist. There is a reason you don't find liberal talk show hosts on networks nationwide and why MSNBC is at the bottom of the cable news ratings. They cannot show credibility by using facts to support their views.


----------



## poppy (Feb 21, 2008)

AmericanStand said:


> I don't think that has ever been our culture we are a nation based on getting rich by getting lucky.
> 
> Don't get me wrong lots of people have achieved good secure lives with hard work but I think the culture has always been based on striking gold.


Totally wrong. Our culture was always based on freedom to work and try to become whatever you wanted. We had millions of legal immigrants come here with nothing and, through assimilation and hard work, have very productive lives. They took pride in their citizenship and were determined to succeed. Much of our population has lost that drive and love of country. Millions are content to let government buy their food, subsidize their houses and cell phones, provide their medical care, and raise their children. We now have a record 93 million working age people not in the workforce and yet we don't see people starving to death and very few living under bridges. The producers of society are supporting the deadbeats. We are no different or better than Greece and are headed for the same fate.


----------



## gibbsgirl (May 1, 2013)

Poppy,
I've never understood the word homophobic. I don't think I actually know anyone who is afraid of gay people.

Some of the vocabulary a lot of arguments are framed within, I think, leads to a lot of miscommunication. Sort of setting it up to head towards strife and misunderstanding, that really, I think, contributes a lot to people getting their blood up when trying to discuss hot topics.


----------



## oneraddad (Jul 20, 2010)

I think grouping liberals or conservatives is no different than grouping anyone else.

I think each individual should stand on their own


----------



## Tricky Grama (Oct 7, 2006)

1948CaseVAI said:


> I guess you just outed you own bias then. In my humble opinion there is no way to debate a person with liberal leanings and not be accused of horrible things because they see people who disagree as inferior and hateful. If I was not inferior and hateful I would always agree with you - and that pretty much ends discussion right there.
> 
> Nice try for civility I guess, but you are chasing "unobtanium" - that which does not exist in the adult world.


Post of the day award.


----------



## Tricky Grama (Oct 7, 2006)

AmericanStand said:


> I think it was politics that used to require flame proof undies.


It was GC, waaay b/4 politics was instituted.


----------



## Tricky Grama (Oct 7, 2006)

poppy said:


> Very well said. I've been on here several years and it has always been that way. Liberals do not base their debates on facts. If you say the flamboyant gays in weird clothes hurt the gay cause by holding parades, you are immediately branded a homophobe. If you say government welfare programs have hurt inner city blacks, you are branded a racist. There is a reason you don't find liberal talk show hosts on networks nationwide and why MSNBC is at the bottom of the cable news ratings. They cannot show credibility by using facts to support their views.


Post of the century award.


----------



## kasilofhome (Feb 10, 2005)

AmericanStand said:


> I think it was politics that used to require flame proof undies.


Interesting


----------



## kasilofhome (Feb 10, 2005)

AmericanStand said:


> I don't think that has ever been our culture we are a nation based on getting rich by getting lucky.
> 
> Don't get me wrong lots of people have achieved good secure lives with hard work but I think the culture has always been based on striking gold.



Well, that right there kinda defines you and where you are coming from...that is just another divide.

Those that just can't see that they can person achieve.... with work and sweat. That luck... something that they is not equal but rare,and a gamble .. sorry but LUCK happens when you work.


----------



## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

kasilofhome said:


> Well, that right there kinda defines you and where you are coming from...that is just another divide.
> 
> Those that just can't see that they can person achieve.... with work and sweat. That luck... something that they is not equal but rare,and a gamble .. sorry but LUCK happens when you work.


And sometimes bad luck happens when you work and you need help. You have been in that situation.


----------



## oneraddad (Jul 20, 2010)

poppy said:


> Very well said. I've been on here several years and it has always been that way. Liberals do not base their debates on facts. If you say the flamboyant gays in weird clothes hurt the gay cause by holding parades, you are immediately branded a homophobe. If you say government welfare programs have hurt inner city blacks, you are branded a racist. There is a reason you don't find liberal talk show hosts on networks nationwide and why MSNBC is at the bottom of the cable news ratings. They cannot show credibility by using facts to support their views.



What a bunch of BS, You are what/who you are by no doings of anybody else.


----------



## arabian knight (Dec 19, 2005)

poppy said:


> Very well said. I've been on here several years and it has always been that way. Liberals do not base their debates on facts. If you say the flamboyant gays in weird clothes hurt the gay cause by holding parades, you are immediately branded a homophobe. If you say government welfare programs have hurt inner city blacks, you are branded a racist. There is a reason you don't find liberal talk show hosts on networks nationwide and why MSNBC is at the bottom of the cable news ratings. They cannot show credibility by using facts to support their views.


 Boy you said a mouthful thee and all true. You should get at least POTD away for that one.


----------



## where I want to (Oct 28, 2008)

painterswife said:


> And sometimes bad luck happens when you work and you need help. You have been in that situation.


Rarely, yes. But a whole lot of people define bad consequences as bad luck. And since they do that, they never look to changing the actions that can change tge results because they think it does not make a difference.
Like the remark about it being bad luck being caught by the police for driving drunk just because there have been times when they were not caught. So it's thereby all a matter of luck, not having anything to do with the choice to get drunk in the first place.


----------



## poppy (Feb 21, 2008)

painterswife said:


> And sometimes bad luck happens when you work and you need help. You have been in that situation.


That's ALWAYS the default answer by liberals to everything. Yes, people sometimes suffer bad things and need help and our people are very generous in helping such people. I hope you understand that only a small percentage of people receiving government benefits are in that category. How many families suffer bad luck generation after generation? It's the same thing when discussing abortion. Liberals always bring up victims of rape as though a lot of women seeking abortions were raped. Again, it is only a small percentage and a red herring to change the subject.


----------



## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

poppy said:


> That's ALWAYS the default answer by liberals to everything. Yes, people sometimes suffer bad things and need help and our people are very generous in helping such people. I hope you understand that only a small percentage of people receiving government benefits are in that category. How many families suffer bad luck generation after generation? It's the same thing when discussing abortion. Liberals always bring up victims of rape as though a lot of women seeking abortions were raped. Again, it is only a small percentage and a red herring to change the subject.


Actually I was stating the reality of what happened to the poster.


----------



## poppy (Feb 21, 2008)

oneraddad said:


> I think grouping liberals or conservatives is no different than grouping anyone else.
> 
> I think each individual should stand on their own


Nonsense. We can group people on many things and it is accurate to do so. Do you deny that old people vote in higher percentages than young people? It's a fact and no one claims it applies to every young or old person. It's also true that old people as a group eat less than young people. That's why you see senior citizen discounts at buffets. It's true women as a group spend more time in the bathroom than men. It's true that young people are more likely to be involved in violent crime. The list is endless. Liberals as a group tend to form opinions based on their feelings or ideas of fairness instead of facts. We see it in gun control as just one example. They're always ranting about assault rifles but facts show few people are killed with long guns, especially assault rifles. Liberals focus on assault rifles purely out of feelings.


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## arabian knight (Dec 19, 2005)

poppy said:


> They're always ranting about assault rifles but facts show few people are killed with long guns, especially assault rifles. Liberals focus on assault rifles purely out of feelings.


Thats because they LOOK scary~! Ohhhhh Ahhhhhh don't want one of THOSE in the hands of Anybody especially R's LOL


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## where I want to (Oct 28, 2008)

painterswife said:


> Actually I was stating the reality of what happened to the poster.


As I said- rarely. But making a career out of it is another.


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## arabian knight (Dec 19, 2005)

Those on the left What is the difference between these?










And this one.










It is the grip on it the Looks of it, or the outer cover that just covers up th barrel?
What is it, or is the magazine?



















All these pictured are nothing but a semi automatic rifle, Nothing more nothing less. And these are not so called Assault riles either.


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## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

where I want to said:


> As I said- rarely. But making a career out of it is another.


Not rarely. I could give you 10 instances of people who have had bad luck in the 50 miles surrounding me that are having fundraisers right now due to reasons ranging from car accidents to house fires.


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## Woolieface (Feb 17, 2015)

gibbsgirl said:


> Poppy,
> I've never understood the word homophobic. I don't think I actually know anyone who is afraid of gay people.
> 
> Some of the vocabulary a lot of arguments are framed within, I think, leads to a lot of miscommunication. Sort of setting it up to head towards strife and misunderstanding, that really, I think, contributes a lot to people getting their blood up when trying to discuss hot topics.


The word homophobic always struck me as comical...


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## where I want to (Oct 28, 2008)

painterswife said:


> Not rarely. I could give you 10 instances of people who have had bad luck in the 50 miles surrounding me that are having fundraisers right now due to reasons ranging from car accidents to house fires.


And I could give you many, many, many, many, many more of people who 1) have not had a car accident or house fire because they took actions to keep it from happening or 2) had enough insurance to cover it on the -tah tah- rare occasions they did.  And so do not need the fund raisers, even if they are truthful in the first place. You look to a place where people have already decided to ask for help to prove that everyone will sooner or later need it.
There is a difference between assuming that everyone, including those who drive off the road drunk, has suffered inevitable bad luck and seeing that only occasionally everyone might possibly have something beyond human capacity to avoid. 
It's the knee jerk response that somehow everyone else, except the one person who has bad things happening, is mystically responsible for fixing all bad things for them that creates the dissent. It is the magnitude of the all inclusive demands that is wrong. And the automatic dismissal of someone saying that it did not need to have happened at all.
I won't say the term that usually applies to this belief.......


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## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

where I want to said:


> And I could give you many, many, many, many, many more of people who 1) have not had a car accident or house fire because they took actions to keep it from happening or 2) had enough insurance to cover it on the -tah tah- rare occasions they did. And so do not need the fund raisers, even if they are truthful in the first place. You look to a place where people have already decided to ask for help to prove that everyone will sooner or later need it.
> There is a difference between assuming that everyone, including those who drive off the road drunk, has suffered inevitable bad luck and seeing that only occasionally everyone might possibly have something beyond human capacity to avoid.
> It's the knee jerk response that somehow everyone else, except the one person who has bad things happening, is mystically responsible for fixing all bad things for them that creates the dissent. It is the magnitude of the all inclusive demands that is wrong. And the automatic dismissal of someone saying that it did not need to have happened at all.
> I won't say the term that usually applies to this belief.......


You are assuming lots. Not one of those I mentioned had bad luck that was their fault. Your posts are doing some dismissing.


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## JJ Grandits (Nov 10, 2002)

People have a hard time between determining the differance between bad luck and bad decisions. Bad luck is getting killed by lightning. getting killed because you were driving drunk is a bad decision. Either way that person might leave a family behind. I may not have sympathy for the drunk driver, but I always will for the family.


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## kasilofhome (Feb 10, 2005)

where I want to said:


> Rarely, yes. But a whole lot of people define bad consequences as bad luck. And since they do that, they never look to changing the actions that can change tge results because they think it does not make a difference.
> Like the remark about it being bad luck being caught by the police for driving drunk just because there have been times when they were not caught. So it's thereby all a matter of luck, not having anything to do with the choice to get drunk in the first place.




Painter is right I see.. I have been and still am. I doubt you would believe what I have been dealing with since Feb.. one day at a time... do all I can do. And work at solving the issue one way or another.

A lot of set backs a lot of change of plans. Giving up, oh yep many time I wanted to but giving up is a temptation to fail. When you give up... you don't give it your all. 12 years of rebuilding and there are steps forward a and backward. We can grow enough to make it a year... would not be a fun diet but we would survive.

Will honestly tell you that I firmly believe that my willingness to try to deal with what life tosses to causes folks to want to help me. I was offered by a group to do a fund raiser for us because people learned that I was walking up to nine miles each way to get to a main road to hitch hike to places I needed to go. It was a pain but I refused it why.... because I can walk and save money to solve the problem it just took time ...
Yea, it was slow but testing my endurance better prepared me for the next issue to solve. Who knows what the next challenge will be.


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## oneraddad (Jul 20, 2010)

poppy said:


> Nonsense. We can group people



and it's ignorant to do so.


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## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

kasilofhome said:


> Painter is right I see.. I have been and still am. I doubt you would believe what I have been dealing with since Feb.. one day at a time... do all I can do. And work at solving the issue one way or another.
> 
> A lot of set backs a lot of change of plans. Giving up, oh yep many time I wanted to but giving up is a temptation to fail. When you give up... you don't give it your all. 12 years of rebuilding and there are steps forward a and backward. We can grow enough to make it a year... would not be a fun diet but we would survive.
> 
> ...


I would not want anyone to have to experience what you have in life. You know that you are not unique. I know that because I know you work to help others. I operate from that basis in life. We never know the real struggles people face, we just assume we do. We need to walk in others shoes more often.


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## Ozarks Tom (May 27, 2011)

Things aren't always what they seem either. A few years after hurricane Katrina a woman and her daughter showed up in Springfield claiming to be refugees, destitute for all appearances, the daughter (about 13) in a wheelchair and severely handicapped. They became the cause celebre for the local charities, with fundraisers and showers of gifts. Habitat for Humanity built them a house with a wheelchair ramp.

Two weeks ago the daughter and her boyfriend were arrested for murdering the "mother", while waiting at the bus station - sans wheelchair. The daughter is thought now to be in her twenties. There's a good deal of question as to whether they were even related. Both played their parts with perfection, smiling and crying with every delivery.

My point: Not everyone who appears needy is, many who are needy wouldn't think of letting on that they are. If your first reaction to a situation is pity and emotion, you could be part of the problem.


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## poppy (Feb 21, 2008)

oneraddad said:


> and it's ignorant to do so.


I know. Facts don't matter to liberals. Thanks for proving my point.


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## oneraddad (Jul 20, 2010)

I'm pretty conservative and don't like the Fed's if my life. I like less rules.

I've been wondering what your point was, thanks for cluing me in.


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## oneraddad (Jul 20, 2010)

I know it's hard to believe, but you can be conservative and not hate gays or blacks


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## Evons hubby (Oct 3, 2005)

JJ Grandits said:


> People have a hard time between determining the differance between bad luck and bad decisions. Bad luck is getting killed by lightning. getting killed because you were driving drunk is a bad decision. Either way that person might leave a family behind. I may not have sympathy for the drunk driver, but I always will for the family.


So a drunk driver gets killed by a nonpaying attention soccer mom who runs a redlight and broadsides him while playing with her smart phone isnt bad luck? no sympathy whatsoever? :facepalm:


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## Evons hubby (Oct 3, 2005)

Ozarks Tom said:


> My point: Not everyone who appears needy is, many who are needy wouldn't think of letting on that they are. If your first reaction to a situation is pity and emotion, you could be part of the problem.


Good point, Due to medical reasons my legs will not support me for long periods of time. I therefor use the wheel chair furnished by our local market to do my shopping. I am NOT needy, it just makes it a lot easier for me to do my shopping. I am amazed at how many folks think I am needy, even had one guy insist on paying for my groceries a while back! I also get amused if there is a fairly long line at the register someone will invariably offer their place in line to me.... huh?!?! Whats up with that? I promise, I can sit in that chair and wait a whole lot easier than someone can stand in line. 
I swear.... people are funnier than anybody!


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## gibbsgirl (May 1, 2013)

Yvonne's hubby said:


> So a drunk driver gets killed by a nonpaying attention soccer mom who runs a redlight and broadsides him while playing with her smart phone isnt bad luck? no sympathy whatsoever? :facepalm:


I think both people weren't having bad luck. They were making dumb decisions.

That said, I don't withhold sympathy towards either one. I also don't think it's wrong to give grace and assistance to them, as long as it's not beyond what those who offer can reasonably give.

By golly, everybody does dumb stuff that sometimes really bites them in the rear end. The point I think is to try not to repeat the same mistakes.


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## Evons hubby (Oct 3, 2005)

gibbsgirl said:


> I think both people weren't having bad luck. They were making dumb decisions.
> 
> That said, I don't withhold sympathy towards either one. I also don't think it's wrong to give grace and assistance to them, as long as it's not beyond what those who offer can reasonably give.
> 
> *By golly, everybody does dumb stuff that sometimes really bites them in the rear end. The point I think is to try not to repeat the same mistakes.*


I will go along with that.... Those that get themselved killed prolly wont make that mistake again.


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## gibbsgirl (May 1, 2013)

Yvonne's hubby said:


> I will go along with that.... Those that get themselved killed prolly wont make that mistake again.


I realize the person that died in that scenario would not be able to repeat that mistake.

But, I think grace and helping them could still be offered.

I could pray for them. I could offer help financial and otherwise to their burial. I could offer friendship and support to their loved ones. I could speak in their defense against others who might attempt to villify their death to help spare their loved ones from shame.

Even though the drivers death was final. I think those are meaningful ways to offer them kindness and not stand in judgment over them.


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## JJ Grandits (Nov 10, 2002)

My problem is that I'm too tender hearted. It goes with that optimist thing I mentioned before. People who scam the system are one thing, but people with a need will have what support I can give. it's part of my hard hearted conservative philosophy. Darn empathy.


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## Evons hubby (Oct 3, 2005)

gibbsgirl said:


> I realize the person that died in that scenario would not be able to repeat that mistake.
> 
> But, I think grace and helping them could still be offered.
> 
> ...


I like the way you think.


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## gibbsgirl (May 1, 2013)

Yvonne's hubby said:


> Good point, Due to medical reasons my legs will not support me for long periods of time. I therefor use the wheel chair furnished by our local market to do my shopping. I am NOT needy, it just makes it a lot easier for me to do my shopping. I am amazed at how many folks think I am needy, even had one guy insist on paying for my groceries a while back! I also get amused if there is a fairly long line at the register someone will invariably offer their place in line to me.... huh?!?! Whats up with that? I promise, I can sit in that chair and wait a whole lot easier than someone can stand in line.
> I swear.... people are funnier than anybody!


I always appreciated it when people offered to move my grandparents ahead in line when they were in wheelchairs.

I kind of interested it how people offer that stuff to women who are pregnant or have small children.

I try and do the same when it happens.

But, it's cause I realize that in all those three scenarios those people might have to take a lot longer to get certain things done or might not have as much energy to get through the day compared to an adult running at full strength.

So, I just figure it might help save them a little time or wasted energy that they might need for other stuff.


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## Woolieface (Feb 17, 2015)

In the end, I think I can live with getting suckered once in a while...but I'm not sure I could justify not helping someone who really needed help. Sometimes it's just a risk you take, and I'd rather err on the side of grace and empathy.


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## oneraddad (Jul 20, 2010)

Usually the people in the store scooter are fat and need exercise. You never see a frail old person in one.


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## DEKE01 (Jul 17, 2013)

oneraddad said:


> and it's ignorant to do so.


actually, it is ignorant not to do so. And you make these same sorts of groupings every day. You can't hardly function in society without doing so. You've just made the same sort of grouping by insisting that the group of people who group people are ignorant. You've backed yourself into a logical contradiction.


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## oneraddad (Jul 20, 2010)

poppy said:


> I know. Facts don't matter to liberals. Thanks for proving my point.





DEKE01 said:


> actually, it is ignorant not to do so. And you make these same sorts of groupings every day. You can't hardly function in society without doing so. You've just made the same sort of grouping by insisting that the group of people who group people are ignorant. You've backed yourself into a logical contradiction.



OK, you win, here's your trophy.


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## DEKE01 (Jul 17, 2013)

oneraddad said:


> Usually the people in the store scooter are fat and need exercise. You never see a frail old person in one.


Isn't this more of the group assumptions you said were ignorant? 

Do I get another trophy? Maybe I should build a bookcase to display them?


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## oneraddad (Jul 20, 2010)

That's why i said usually. I didn't say liberals are ____ making all liberals____.


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## where I want to (Oct 28, 2008)

painterswife said:


> You are assuming lots. Not one of those I mentioned had bad luck that was their fault. Your posts are doing some dismissing.


I'm pointing out the assumptions that you are operating under. Me- I'm saying that I don't know and, even if told by the person, still will not know. That is the opposite of assuming.
I will agree that not one is saying it's their fault, whether it is or is not. But that is not to the point anyway. The previous posts are about some people never notice the connection between their actions and the results. So they just assume it was bad luck and never fix their situation. 
And if they always have people agreeing with that idea, they are dissuaded from it ever crossing their minds to see.
The point is that if there are 10 people needing help, and 1,900,875 who don't, then the actions required to help the 10 should not made a blanket give away impinging on the million.

What if someone tells you that they were just in a car accident and needed help getting on their feet again? You feel an urge to help because you assume that it was a random accident. Then you read a story in the paper, saying they are up on charges for driving drunk. Well, they still need help even if they caused the problem themselves. Then you read that they were also driving under a suspended license for repeated DUIs. It's getting a little irritating but you "fund them anyway." 
And then you read that, while awaiting trial on these charges, they got drunk again, had another accident that resulted in the deaths of a family of 5 coming home from vacation.
At that point, which is something that has happened, I would hope that you would agree that not supporting them in their quest towards self destruction would have been a much better choice. And that maybe, just maybe, pointing out that what they call bad luck was their choice in the first place may have saved a lot of misery.


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## Evons hubby (Oct 3, 2005)

oneraddad said:


> Usually the people in the store scooter are fat and need exercise. You never see a frail old person in one.


edited to remove snarky reply. just not going there today.


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## where I want to (Oct 28, 2008)

oneraddad said:


> and it's ignorant to do so.


So no affirmative action for you. No hate crimes- can't have that unless there is a group to hate. No flood victims- just a series of damp people. No rich people, no poor people. No pedophiles, rapists or murders- just individuals making bad choices. 
To sort is human, to never generalize is ineffective.

Gee, the whole thread went through this idea and moved on before I got here.


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## gibbsgirl (May 1, 2013)

Yvonne's hubby said:


> edited to remove snarky reply. just not going there today.


Good call. I let it lie as well. Figured it wasn't worth the idea of debating once I read it said never.

All or nothing assumptions are hard to reason with.


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## oneraddad (Jul 20, 2010)

Yvonne's hubby said:


> edited to remove snarky reply. just not going there today.



My Daughter has a heart murmur and her thyroid has been removed, she don't use the scooter


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## Patchouli (Aug 3, 2011)

oneraddad said:


> Usually the people in the store scooter are fat and need exercise. You never see a frail old person in one.


I assume that was dry humor in light of your posts about grouping people?


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## where I want to (Oct 28, 2008)

gibbsgirl said:


> I always appreciated it when people offered to move my grandparents ahead in line when they were in wheelchairs.
> 
> I kind of interested it how people offer that stuff to women who are pregnant or have small children.
> 
> ...


I routinely offer my place in line for an impatient shopper during lunch hours, saying I'm retired and have time, assuming they might need to get back to work. Sometimes I'm taken up on it, sometimes they say they have time too. But it is a kindness I offer, an offer I can not make if I need to get through the line fast too. 
Even if some just announced they were in a hurry and ask, I would accommodate if I could. 
But if a person just pushes themselves ahead........


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## poppy (Feb 21, 2008)

oneraddad said:


> I know it's hard to believe, but you can be conservative and not hate gays or blacks


Well, since you say you don't like the Feds in your life, do you think their meddling in the lives of blacks and other poor people for decades has done more harm or good? Would young men be more likely to impregnate young girls and stay with them to support their kids or walk away knowing Uncle Sam would take care of them? Would young girls allow themselves to get pregnant and walk away from the father if they knew they had to take care of the child themselves or would they use readily available birth control or marry the father and start a family?


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## kasilofhome (Feb 10, 2005)

As a conservative I too do not hate blacks or homosexuals.
Behaviors well that's another matter.. any public display of sexuality is not my preference to view.

Every race has success people trying to get ahead and some that are lazy and criminal.


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## oneraddad (Jul 20, 2010)

poppy said:


> Well, since you say you don't like the Feds in your life, do you think their meddling in the lives of blacks and other poor people for decades has done more harm or good? Would young men be more likely to impregnate young girls and stay with them to support their kids or walk away knowing Uncle Sam would take care of them? Would young girls allow themselves to get pregnant and walk away from the father if they knew they had to take care of the child themselves or would they use readily available birth control or marry the father and start a family?


Why not leave it at poor people, why mention blacks ?

Obviously the system gets worked by all, even the rich whites while doing their taxes.


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## where I want to (Oct 28, 2008)

oneraddad said:


> Why not leave it at poor people, why mention blacks ?
> 
> Obviously the system gets worked by all, even the rich whites while doing their taxes.


And that is one of the reasons for government systems to be trimmed way back.


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## Evons hubby (Oct 3, 2005)

oneraddad said:


> My Daughter has a heart murmur and her thyroid has been removed, she don't use the scooter


Ok, changed my mind. 

I am glad your daughter doesnt need the scooter. Its only been the last couple of years that I have needed the chair. To look at me you wouldnt think I had any heath issues at all. Of course I am sure you would get quite a jab out of it when I stood up, tryed to walk or speak. I am the poster child for "hire the handicapped... they are fun to watch" crowd.


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## oneraddad (Jul 20, 2010)

I see more scooters at Walmart than I see at the VA.


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## watcher (Sep 4, 2006)

AmericanStand said:


> I don't think that has ever been our culture we are a nation based on getting rich by getting lucky.
> 
> Don't get me wrong lots of people have achieved good secure lives with hard work but I think the culture has always been based on striking gold.


For the most part to strike gold you have to dig through a lot of worthless dirt.

If you check you'll find that most 'over night success' stories actually have a long history of hard work behind it.

I will admit that people seem to love the idea of easy money. This fact is how most people get scammed.


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## watcher (Sep 4, 2006)

oneraddad said:


> I think grouping liberals or conservatives is no different than grouping anyone else.
> 
> I think each individual should stand on their own


Groups are made of individuals and while each individual is different they all have general things that link them. Is someone tells you they have a horse you can be fairly sure what it looks like, how it acts and such. You might be off a little, say you are thinking draft horse and they have a miniature, but a lot of the things you think will be true.


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## wr (Aug 10, 2003)

oneraddad said:


> Usually the people in the store scooter are fat and need exercise. You never see a frail old person in one.


I had to use one of those hateful scooters for about 3 months and you'd be surprised how unkind and judgemental people can be. It seems folks need a injured people to carry a big sign that justifies using the scooter (full length cast just isn't good enough because it's assumed casts are made for walking) so you aren't continually stopped by folks asking specifically why you need it many will flat out suggest that 'if it's that bad, maybe you should stay at home.'


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## oneraddad (Jul 20, 2010)

I own the Paymaster extension gold and silver mine that was famous during the gold rush days. 
I own lots of dirt.


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## gibbsgirl (May 1, 2013)

wr said:


> I had to use one of those hateful scooters for about 3 months and you'd be surprised how unkind and judgemental people can be. It seems folks need a injured people to carry a big sign that justifies using the scooter (full length cast just isn't good enough because it's assumed casts are made for walking) so you aren't continually stopped by folks asking specifically why you need it many will flat out suggest that 'if it's that bad, maybe you should stay at home.'


That's a bummer. I can believe it would happen though. My kids and I have regularly gotten questioned by complete strangers in public about why they aren't in school. We Homeschool.

I tease the kids that one day I'm gonna just say something silly as a response instead 

I haven't yet because I can't decide what to say.

I keep waffling between two ideas.

One is to just say, they don't go to school or we just ditch a lot cause it suits us.

The other is to just say, the doctor said it wasn't safe to expose them to other kids while they were this contagious, so since they weren't quite bedridden yet we wanted to get out and run our errands.


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## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

This must be a record for thread drift.


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## gibbsgirl (May 1, 2013)

painterswife said:


> This must be a record for thread drift.


Yours isn't the only one today. I've been on I think five so far that seem to be wandering all over. I keep trying to double check the thread titles to see which one I'm on cause it's not super obvious by the new posts.

Maybe the fireworks fumes got to everybody last night.


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## oneraddad (Jul 20, 2010)

watcher said:


> Groups are made of individuals and while each individual is different they all have general things that link them. Is someone tells you they have a horse you can be fairly sure what it looks like, how it acts and such. You might be off a little, say you are thinking draft horse and they have a miniature, but a lot of the things you think will be true.



I don't know much about horses, so lets use a different analogy.

You're looking at a black person, what can you tell me about him besides he's black. Can you tell his education ? Can you tell me his family values ? If he's gay or not ? I mean what do all black people have in common ?


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## poppy (Feb 21, 2008)

oneraddad said:


> Why not leave it at poor people, why mention blacks ?
> 
> Obviously the system gets worked by all, even the rich whites while doing their taxes.


Because the blacks in our inner cities live a life of hell. How would you feel if you had to worry every day whether or not your teenager was going to get shot on his/her way to school or to the store? If you cared half as much about blacks as you pretend, you would be seeking answers to their problems instead of always playing the racism card. There will be no solving such problems until people like you realize we have to have honest debates on the core of the problem. Government freebies are not the solution and decades of history prove it. They only make it worse.


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## oneraddad (Jul 20, 2010)

Ohhhhhh..... So HT is for solving the problems of blacks. How's that working out ? 

You have any success stories yet ?


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## po boy (Jul 12, 2010)

oneraddad said:


> Ohhhhhh..... *So HT is for solving the problems of blacks*. How's that working out ?
> 
> You have any success stories yet ?


How do you arrive at that?


----------



## poppy (Feb 21, 2008)

oneraddad said:


> Ohhhhhh..... *So HT is for solving the problems of blacks. *How's that working out ?
> 
> You have any success stories yet ?


HT is a homesteading forum. GC is for general chat. It appears it is for people like you to spew garbage about anyone you disagree with being a racist. Can you show me any success stories of decades of liberal programs?


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## oneraddad (Jul 20, 2010)

po boy said:


> How do you arrive at that?







poppy said:


> If you cared half as much about blacks as you pretend, you would be seeking answers to their problems instead of always playing the racism card. There will be no solving such problems until people like you realize we have to have honest debates on the core of the problem.



This is how I got there.


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## po boy (Jul 12, 2010)

oneraddad said:


> This is how I got there.


In that case, I repeat the question. How did you get there?


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## DEKE01 (Jul 17, 2013)

oneraddad said:


> I don't know much about horses, so lets use a different analogy.
> 
> You're looking at a black person, what can you tell me about him besides he's black. Can you tell his education ? Can you tell me his family values ? If he's gay or not ? I mean what do all black people have in common ?


Other than physical features, I probably can't tell you much about that individual. I know this will probably brand me a racist by some of the people here, but if you group 1000 truly random black Americans and compare them to 1000 truly random white Americans, I can get close about a few things in each group. 

The blacks will be less educated, have lower incomes, swim slower, run faster, have curlier hair, served more prison time, and lots more things good, bad, and indifferent. 

I'm not sure what the purpose of this exercise would be, but there are some factual generalities about the groups that may be completely wrong about many of the individuals. The PC crowd often makes it a crime to notice the factual generalities, even when no ill will is intended.


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## oneraddad (Jul 20, 2010)

poppy said:


> HT is a homesteading forum. GC is for general chat. It appears it is for people like you to spew garbage about anyone you disagree with being a racist. Can you show me any success stories of decades of liberal programs?



Liberal.... I'm a Grandpa with a black Granddaughter that's a straight A student at the best private Catholic school in Reno. Most of the rich republicans send their kids to this school and my Granddaughter has always had the highest grades of her class. Her soccer team rarely loses a tournament and she is just an all around awesome person. She gets it from her parents.

I'm sick of you conservatives lumping her into your BS because of her skin color. We don't have a poor black neighborhood in Reno, we don't have race tension and were not scared of being shot or robbed.

If you wanna talk about your neighborhood fine, but all of America is not the same. I'm not here to care or save all blacks, just my Granddaughters honor.


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## DEKE01 (Jul 17, 2013)

oneraddad said:


> Liberal.... I'm a Grandpa with a black Granddaughter that's a straight A student at the best private Catholic school in Reno. Most of the rich republicans send their kids to this school and my Granddaughter has always had the highest grades of her class. Her soccer team rarely loses a tournament and she is just an all around awesome person. She gets it from her parents.
> 
> I'm sick of you conservatives lumping her into your BS because of her skin color. We don't have a poor black neighborhood in Reno, we don't have race tension and were not scared of being shot or robbed.
> 
> If you wanna talk about your neighborhood fine, but all of America is not the same. I'm not here to care or save all blacks, just my Granddaughters honor.


I'm very glad you have a wonderful granddaughter who does well in school. 

Now, can you point me to the comments where your granddaughter has been disparaged? Or blacks in general? I'll happily join you in denouncing racist comments if you care to point me in the right direction. I don't read but a few threads in HT on any given day, so maybe I've missed what has you upset.


----------



## JJ Grandits (Nov 10, 2002)

oneraddad said:


> I don't know much about horses, so lets use a different analogy.
> 
> You're looking at a black person, what can you tell me about him besides he's black. Can you tell his education ? Can you tell me his family values ? If he's gay or not ? I mean what do all black people have in common ?


I know this one! black people have a very contagious laugh. There is no doubt when they think something is funny. I can identify people by their laugh.


----------



## oneraddad (Jul 20, 2010)

DEKE01 said:


> I'm very glad you have a wonderful granddaughter who does well in school.
> 
> Now, can you point me to the comments where your granddaughter has been disparaged? Or blacks in general? I'll happily join you in denouncing racist comments if you care to point me in the right direction. I don't read but a few threads in HT on any given day, so maybe I've missed what has you upset.



Give me a break and that trophy back


----------



## po boy (Jul 12, 2010)

oneraddad said:


> Liberal.... I'm a Grandpa with a black Granddaughter that's a straight A student at the best private Catholic school in Reno. Most of the rich republicans send their kids to this school and my Granddaughter has always had the highest grades of her class. Her soccer team rarely loses a tournament and she is just an all around awesome person. She gets it from her parents.
> 
> I'm sick of you conservatives lumping her into your BS because of her skin color. We don't have a poor black neighborhood in Reno, we don't have race tension and were not scared of being shot or robbed.
> 
> If you wanna talk about your neighborhood fine, but all of America is not the same. I'm not here to care or save all blacks, just my Granddaughters honor.


Well, we finally got that out.

I am a conservative and haven't lumped your granddaughter into anything and no one has lumped all blacks into anything. 

OH, since you voted for RR are you sick of yourself?

By the way, I have a truckload of black relatives and love them the same as all my other relatives.

Feel better?


----------



## poppy (Feb 21, 2008)

oneraddad said:


> Liberal.... I'm a Grandpa with a black Granddaughter that's a straight A student at the best private Catholic school in Reno. Most of the rich republicans send their kids to this school and my Granddaughter has always had the highest grades of her class. Her soccer team rarely loses a tournament and she is just an all around awesome person. She gets it from her parents.
> 
> I'm sick of you conservatives lumping her into your BS because of her skin color. We don't have a poor black neighborhood in Reno, we don't have race tension and were not scared of being shot or robbed.
> 
> If you wanna talk about your neighborhood fine, but all of America is not the same. I'm not here to care or save all blacks, just my Granddaughters honor.


Who disparaged your granddaughter? Sounds to me like your granddaughter is living proof blacks can indeed succeed, given parents who care and take responsibility for their upbringing. Would your granddaughter be as successful in an inner city neighborhood rife with drugs and crime and parents who don't care? Possible, but not likely. I would like to see all blacks and whites succeed just like your granddaughter. The question is, how do we get there? Our government programs have clearly failed as evidenced by the number of unwed births and the prison incarceration rates and it is stupid to keep throwing money at the problem. A failed life is terrible for anyone.


----------



## oneraddad (Jul 20, 2010)

poppy said:


> Who disparaged your granddaughter? Sounds to me like your granddaughter is living proof blacks can indeed succeed, given parents who care and take responsibility for their upbringing. Would your granddaughter be as successful in an inner city neighborhood rife with drugs and crime and parents who don't care? Possible, but not likely. I would like to see all blacks and whites succeed just like your granddaughter. The question is, how do we get there? Our government programs have clearly failed as evidenced by the number of unwed births and the prison incarceration rates and it is stupid to keep throwing money at the problem. A failed life is terrible for anyone.



Are you drunk ? She don't live in the inner city so how would I know.

Did you read what I wrote ? I don't have and I'm not looking for the answers.


----------



## oneraddad (Jul 20, 2010)

Anybody here with the answers should let someone important know so they can get it fixed because it won't happen here.


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## poppy (Feb 21, 2008)

po boy said:


> Well, we finally got that out.
> 
> I am a conservative and haven't lumped your granddaughter into anything and no one has lumped all blacks into anything.
> 
> ...


I have a granddaughter married to a black guy. Nice young fella and they think the world of each other. He's very intelligent and did well in school. I had him working for me for a while and physical labor is not his forte. He would sit down the minute your back was turned. I think it was boredom more than laziness. He now works with computers and seems very happy doing that.


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## poppy (Feb 21, 2008)

oneraddad said:


> Anybody here with the answers should let someone important know so they can get it fixed because it won't happen here.


I'm not out to fix anything. Nothing gets fixed on any internet forum. It's for discussion and sharing ideas.


----------



## DEKE01 (Jul 17, 2013)

oneraddad said:


> Give me a break and that trophy back


here is your BrE a K

please enjoy it. You can't have your trophy back. What's mine is mine. 

Now, about those racist comments... I'm SURE there are some around here somewhere; it's a big forum with lots of diversity, including some not so desirable diversity. Obviously something upset you in that regard. Please point me to what set you off tonight.


----------



## po boy (Jul 12, 2010)

DEKE01 said:


> here is your BrE a K
> 
> please enjoy it. You can't have your trophy back. What's mine is mine.
> 
> Now, about those racist comments... I'm SURE there are some around here somewhere; it's a big forum with lots of diversity, including some not so desirable diversity. Obviously something upset you in that regard. Please point me to what set you off tonight.


I'm with Deke, please show us.


----------



## poppy (Feb 21, 2008)

po boy said:


> I'm with Deke, please show us.


Don't you and Deke hold your breath waiting for a sensible answer. We can't afford to lose 2 good posters.


----------



## DEKE01 (Jul 17, 2013)

oneraddad said:


> Why not leave it at poor people, why mention blacks ?
> 
> Obviously the system gets worked by all, even the rich whites while doing their taxes.


In msg 176, Poppy used the phrase, "blacks and other poor people," in reference to Federal programs for the poor. This seems to be what angered you and got you to play the racism card. Now I suppose if Poppy wanted to be completely PC, he could have phrased it more delicately, but let's be honest here.

This unbiased site says blacks receive food stamps at a rate higher than any other ethnic group and roughly twice the rate as whites. 
http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2013/07/12/the-politics-and-demographics-of-food-stamp-recipients/

this site reports that blacks and hispanics live in poverty at roughly 3X the rate of whites and asians. 
http://www.npc.umich.edu/poverty/

Now I realize my two stats don't describe the whole of the issue, but work with me, after all, I'm a trophy holder. Since the "war on poverty" has been going on for near 50 years, over 2 generations, and somewhere in the neighborhood of $15TRILLION has been spent on this war, with blacks disproportionately living in poverty and disproportionately receiving more welfare benefits, is Poppy's question not a valid one? Isn't it fair to ask, with all that has been spent, what good have the programs done and why have they not been more effective for blacks and other minorities? Isn't it fair to ask if the welfare programs have caused more harm than good? 

And what does any of this have to do with your admirable granddaughter? And why did you play the racism card?

Poppy may have told me not to hold my breath waiting for an answer, but like a spoiled child, I've got my arms crossed (terribly hard to type this way) and my cheeks are bursting. Please answer soon because I'm starting to get dizzy. :spinsmiley: 

 See, I'm turning red.


----------



## gibbsgirl (May 1, 2013)

Deke01,

A large portion of the native born black community is facing pretty staggering odds compared to other American races. But, it's not because they are different. It's because their community was targeted heavily by the programs launched during the Johnson administration. Many of those programs did not perform as advertised. They were realistically put in place to secure the loyalty of a huge voting demographic for politicians.

I feel like the same thing is now happening to the mainly Hispanic immigrant community now with the programs being launched by the Obama administration.

It's very sad. But, not about racism at all in my mind. And, I wish more people could see that so things could improve. But, I fear we may never get there and we're stomping down the path again with this new future voting demographic.


----------



## Woolieface (Feb 17, 2015)

oneraddad said:


> I don't know much about horses, so lets use a different analogy.
> 
> You're looking at a black person, what can you tell me about him besides he's black. Can you tell his education ? Can you tell me his family values ? If he's gay or not ? I mean what do all black people have in common ?


Snazzy shoes? Was that not PC?


----------



## Evons hubby (Oct 3, 2005)

oneraddad said:


> I don't know much about horses, so lets use a different analogy.
> 
> You're looking at a black person, what can you tell me about him besides he's black. Can you tell his education ? Can you tell me his family values ? If he's gay or not ? I mean what do all black people have in common ?


I can tell a few things.... Pretty much the same things I can tell about other folks. How one dresses can tell you a lot, if I get to hear them speak that can be revealing as well. A brief handshake helps too. Patches on the knees instead of his backside is an easy way to spot a working man usually. People of all colors reveal much about themselves by their appearance if one is tuned into what to look for.


----------



## kasilofhome (Feb 10, 2005)

At this point.... most families are multiracial...no big deal.


----------



## Evons hubby (Oct 3, 2005)

kasilofhome said:


> At this point.... most families are multiracial...no big deal.


I grew up in a multiracial family in the fifties and sixties. It is becoming more common all the time.


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## Tricky Grama (Oct 7, 2006)

painterswife said:


> Not rarely. I could give you 10 instances of people who have had bad luck in the 50 miles surrounding me that are having fundraisers right now due to reasons ranging from car accidents to house fires.


You should move. 
You could be next.

ETA-I'm kidding...


----------



## Tricky Grama (Oct 7, 2006)

oneraddad said:


> and it's ignorant to do so.


Have you never belonged to a group?
Ever?
Not sure how anyone could escape. 1st grade? 2nd, etc? Basketball team? Little League? Church? Voting? "D". "I". "R". "L". "S"? "none of the above"? CPAs? Army? Graduation class? summer job? Permanent in the workforce? Temp in the workforce? Farmer? Homesteader? HT member? (I hadn't realized non-members could post!)


----------



## Tricky Grama (Oct 7, 2006)

Yvonne's hubby said:


> Good point, Due to medical reasons my legs will not support me for long periods of time. I therefor use the wheel chair furnished by our local market to do my shopping. I am NOT needy, it just makes it a lot easier for me to do my shopping. I am amazed at how many folks think I am needy, even had one guy insist on paying for my groceries a while back! I also get amused if there is a fairly long line at the register someone will invariably offer their place in line to me.... huh?!?! Whats up with that? I promise, I can sit in that chair and wait a whole lot easier than someone can stand in line.
> I swear.... people are funnier than anybody!


Ah, just thank them for their generosity. 

We were shopping and a guy in front of us in the same WC wally's provides & could not pay for all his groceries. I grabbed the credit card, showed the clerk & said: "give him the rest of his groceries & put it on our tab". 

I was kinda sure he didn't notice this, which was what I wanted...DH frowned at me & I thought to myself-"is my hubs turning into a meanie?" 
After we left, DH said: "that guy doesn't always need that scooter, for 1 thing, for another thing, he'd 1st bought 2 gallons of wine, cookies, etc". 

Then we saw him in the parking lot, loading his groceries w/cigarette in his mouth. I was downhearted, at 1st then thought oh, well, I used to smoke too...and the wine IS pretty essential...


----------



## Tricky Grama (Oct 7, 2006)

Woolieface said:


> In the end, I think I can live with getting suckered once in a while...but I'm not sure I could justify not helping someone who really needed help. Sometimes it's just a risk you take, and I'd rather err on the side of grace and empathy.


Post of the day award.

Whatsoever you do for the least of my brethren...


----------



## Tricky Grama (Oct 7, 2006)

oneraddad said:


> My Daughter has a heart murmur and her thyroid has been removed, she don't use the scooter


Good for her...prayers & good thoughts for ongoing health.

So, is she fat tho?


----------



## Tricky Grama (Oct 7, 2006)

kasilofhome said:


> As a conservative I too do not hate blacks or homosexuals.
> Behaviors well that's another matter.. any public display of sexuality is not my preference to view.
> 
> Every race has success people trying to get ahead and some that are lazy and criminal.


Goes w/o saying no hate there...as well as discriminating about behavior...

Are those mentioned 'groups of people'?


----------



## Tricky Grama (Oct 7, 2006)

wr said:


> I had to use one of those hateful scooters for about 3 months and you'd be surprised how unkind and judgemental people can be. It seems folks need a injured people to carry a big sign that justifies using the scooter (full length cast just isn't good enough because it's assumed casts are made for walking) so you aren't continually stopped by folks asking specifically why you need it many will flat out suggest that 'if it's that bad, maybe you should stay at home.'


Wow, what rude folks! You need to get out of that rude country...come to TX...


ps-we'll teach ya to complain about 90 degrees...


----------



## Tricky Grama (Oct 7, 2006)

gibbsgirl said:


> That's a bummer. I can believe it would happen though. My kids and I have regularly gotten questioned by complete strangers in public about why they aren't in school. We Homeschool.
> 
> I tease the kids that one day I'm gonna just say something silly as a response instead
> 
> ...


Ooo, Ooo, the 2nd one the 2nd one!!


----------



## Tricky Grama (Oct 7, 2006)

painterswife said:


> This must be a record for thread drift.


Thread? What thread?


----------



## Tricky Grama (Oct 7, 2006)

oneraddad said:


> I don't know much about horses, so lets use a different analogy.
> 
> You're looking at a black person, what can you tell me about him besides he's black. Can you tell his education ? Can you tell me his family values ? If he's gay or not ? I mean what do all black people have in common ?


They belong to the human race.


----------



## simi-steading (Sep 27, 2012)

I just wish everyone would stop being offended.. If they would stop being offended.. then we wouldn't have to have discussions like this...

People need to stop shopping in the toddler panties department... Grow some tough skin and stop being chafed...


----------



## Tricky Grama (Oct 7, 2006)

oneraddad said:


> Liberal.... I'm a Grandpa with a black Granddaughter that's a straight A student at the best private Catholic school in Reno. Most of the rich republicans send their kids to this school and my Granddaughter has always had the highest grades of her class. Her soccer team rarely loses a tournament and she is just an all around awesome person. She gets it from her parents.
> 
> I'm sick of you conservatives lumping her into your BS because of her skin color. We don't have a poor black neighborhood in Reno, we don't have race tension and were not scared of being shot or robbed.
> 
> If you wanna talk about your neighborhood fine, but all of America is not the same. I'm not here to care or save all blacks, just my Granddaughters honor.


I'm just sure you can find a post that lumped ALL black people into BS. JUST ONE.

And I'll bet-prolly not hardly any on HT, but many in this country who are far left-would say your DGD is a product of WHITE SUPREMECY! Why, b/c you just described her living conditions & background. Just go look at UCLA's list of things they've been told not to say & why.


----------



## gapeach (Dec 23, 2011)

When you come in contact with a lot of people of a different color from you, a smile and a Good Morning or Good Afternoon goes a long way. I have seen the sourest expression change to a smile many, many times.


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## Tricky Grama (Oct 7, 2006)

poppy said:


> Who disparaged your granddaughter? Sounds to me like your granddaughter is living proof blacks can indeed succeed, given parents who care and take responsibility for their upbringing. Would your granddaughter be as successful in an inner city neighborhood rife with drugs and crime and parents who don't care? Possible, but not likely. I would like to see all blacks and whites succeed just like your granddaughter. The question is, how do we get there? Our government programs have clearly failed as evidenced by the number of unwed births and the prison incarceration rates and it is stupid to keep throwing money at the problem. A failed life is terrible for anyone.


Post of the day award.


----------



## Tricky Grama (Oct 7, 2006)

oneraddad said:


> Are you drunk ? She don't live in the inner city so how would I know.
> 
> Did you read what I wrote ? I don't have and I'm not looking for the answers.


Do you have any idea how some inner city black people have to live? Doesn't sound like it. Doesn't sound like you have a clue or care how your DGD is different than those who cannot find a way to get out of the ghetto.


----------



## Tricky Grama (Oct 7, 2006)

deke01 said:


> in msg 176, poppy used the phrase, "blacks and other poor people," in reference to federal programs for the poor. This seems to be what angered you and got you to play the racism card. Now i suppose if poppy wanted to be completely pc, he could have phrased it more delicately, but let's be honest here.
> 
> This unbiased site says blacks receive food stamps at a rate higher than any other ethnic group and roughly twice the rate as whites.
> http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2013/07/12/the-politics-and-demographics-of-food-stamp-recipients/
> ...


potda.


----------



## po boy (Jul 12, 2010)

simi-steading said:


> I just wish everyone would stop being offended.. If they would stop being offended.. then we wouldn't have to have discussions like this...
> 
> People need to stop shopping in the toddler panties department... Grow some tough skin and stop being chafed...


Some are here to be offended so they get snarky etc


----------



## simi-steading (Sep 27, 2012)

Well let 'em step right up... I'm pretty well practiced in offending people by being politically incorrect


----------



## mnn2501 (Apr 2, 2008)

painterswife said:


> I want the name calling and put downs to stop.


Create your own board then. Discussion does not mean always agreeing and people here are passionate about many things.


----------



## Txsteader (Aug 22, 2005)

painterswife said:


> I personally have a problem with name calling of politicians and the put down names for the left and right. Bleeding heart liberal is a put down.


 You probably would have had a nervous breakdown if you lived back in the 18th or 19th centuries. IMO, our criticisms are tame compared to some things that were written/drawn back then. 

As I understand it, the term 'bleeding heart liberal' was first directed at Eleanor Roosevelt during the '30s. 

It goes with the territory. It is part and parcel of what makes up politics. Just like the Democrats ruthlessly skewered Bush, even sang 'Goodbye' on Obama's inauguration day (which I thought was extremely tacky/juvenile), Obama is not immune to criticism......even the ruthless variety.


----------



## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

mnn2501 said:


> Create your own board then. Discussion does not mean always agreeing and people here are passionate about many things.


On this board, I would have liked it to stop. If we have the rule "Be nice" then we should embrace it. I am on other boards where I don't have to be nice at all. I can name call all I want and they can name call right back. It serves it's purpose well.


----------



## poppy (Feb 21, 2008)

po boy said:


> Some are here to be offended so they get snarky etc


Bingo. They post patently false, stupid, or insane things knowing some of us will feel bound to respond to such foolishness. They are here to stir the pot and some even enjoy going to other boards to brag about it.


----------



## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

poppy said:


> Bingo. They post patently false, stupid, or insane things knowing some of us will feel bound to respond to such foolishness. They are here to stir the pot and some even enjoy going to other boards to brag about it.


Good job at stirring that pot with this post. :thumb:


----------



## where I want to (Oct 28, 2008)

painterswife said:


> On this board, I would have liked it to stop. If we have the rule "Be nice" then we should embrace it. I am on other boards where I don't have to be nice at all. I can name call all I want and they can name call right back. It serves it's purpose well.


Why go there? A name calling site?
yes, there is a "be nice" rule, that if applied universally would certainly tone it down. The trouble seems to be that seems to be applied based on personal opinion as to the political position of nicety. Insults rage but are not stopped. 
There are rules for name calling-even of politicians but it is not enforced. 
Since when does a post get deleted for "bickering"? It's all bickering if it comes down to it.


----------



## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

it is so much more than a name calling site. You get to swear and tell people what you really think about them. It is the REAL flame proof undies forum.


----------



## Woolieface (Feb 17, 2015)

painterswife said:


> it is so much more than a name calling site. You get to swear and tell people what you really think about them. It is the REAL flame proof undies forum.


well, wait.... that sounds like a pretty favorable review of a board that sounds kind of like a zoo. Why are you campaigning for a more polite approach here if that other forum suits your fancy?


----------



## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

Woolieface said:


> well, wait.... that sounds like a pretty favorable review of a board that sounds kind of like a zoo. Why are you campaigning for a more polite approach here if that other forum suits your fancy?


So many complained here about it so I thought I would open a discussion about it. Funny but most did not want it to change even some who complained. I still don't get how name calling fits in with the be nice rule but it is what they want so no problem I can join in.


----------



## Txsteader (Aug 22, 2005)

wr said:


> I had to use one of those hateful scooters for about 3 months and you'd be surprised how unkind and judgemental people can be. It seems folks need a injured people to carry a big sign that justifies using the scooter (full length cast just isn't good enough because it's assumed casts are made for walking) so you aren't continually stopped by folks asking specifically why you need it many will flat out suggest that 'if it's that bad, maybe you should stay at home.'


You know, sometimes I forget just how rude and ignorant some people can be. And sometimes, I'm absolutely stunned that there are people who are that ignorant and rude.

While I'm a long way from perfect and have to diligently guard against being judgmental toward certain people, I would NEVER be so bold (stupid) as to actually say such a crass remark. :facepalm:


----------



## Woolieface (Feb 17, 2015)

painterswife said:


> So many complained here about it so I thought I would open a discussion about it. Funny but most did not want it to change even some who complained. I still don't get how name calling fits in with the be nice rule but it is what they want so no problem I can join in.


Tell you the truth, I can't remember any posts where a poster called another a name. As in "you old doo-doo head, you". There might be a lot of implied insults but those are kind of up for subjective debate.


----------



## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

Woolieface said:


> Tell you the truth, I can't remember any posts where a poster called another a name. As in "you old doo-doo head, you". There might be a lot of implied insults but those are kind of up for subjective debate.


I was talking about calling anyone ( poster or not ) names.


----------



## wr (Aug 10, 2003)

where I want to said:


> Why go there? A name calling site?
> yes, there is a "be nice" rule, that if applied universally would certainly tone it down. The trouble seems to be that seems to be applied based on personal opinion as to the political position of nicety. Insults rage but are not stopped.
> There are rules for name calling-even of politicians but it is not enforced.
> Since when does a post get deleted for "bickering"? It's all bickering if it comes down to it.


I reviewed the rules and can't find anything regarding calling polticians names and never has been and as far as using the term 'bickering', I believe that the previous terms used were 'back and forth', 'ping pong' and 'hiss and spit,' none of which upset you in any way. Ultimately, all violated the be nice rule.

It should be noted that all of those posts reported are reviewed by not one but multiple mods.


----------



## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

Woolieface said:


> well, wait.... that sounds like a pretty favorable review of a board that sounds kind of like a zoo. Why are you campaigning for a more polite approach here if that other forum suits your fancy?


Do you think people are limited to just one site?

Isn't variety a good thing?

On that other site, people could just come out and say what they want (with *proof* of course) without having to torment themselves and others with a lot of vague rambling, innuendo, or silly drama


----------



## watcher (Sep 4, 2006)

painterswife said:


> This must be a record for thread drift.


And its what makes thread drift so much fun. You NEVER know where you are going to wind up.


----------



## Patchouli (Aug 3, 2011)

po boy said:


> In that case, I repeat the question. How did you get there?



Read all of Poppy's posts, it's obviously his favorite pastime.  A few others here too.


----------



## watcher (Sep 4, 2006)

oneraddad said:


> I don't know much about horses, so lets use a different analogy.
> 
> You're looking at a black person, what can you tell me about him besides he's black. Can you tell his education ? Can you tell me his family values ? If he's gay or not ? I mean what do all black people have in common ?


Too large of a group to say much specifically. It depends on things like where are we, how's he dressed and such. A black man dressed in a suit in a business complex at 1400 will not have much in common with one dressed like a 'gansta' standing in a known drug area at 0200. But you can generalize about the individuals. Businessmen tend to be more educated, polite, have more wealth and commit fewer violent crimes. So if you have a question or are a bum looking for a handout or are afraid of being mugged its 'safe' to approach him. Ganstas OTOH tend to not be that well educated, not have a lot of wealth (although some can have large amounts of cash from time to time) and have records of violent crimes. So the opposite would be true of him.

And for the most part it has been my life experience some of the things that the vast majority of blacks are; they think the reason they (as individuals or a group) are not in a better socio-economic state is because of the actions of others. The, like all other races, tend to prefer, in large social settings, to be around people who look like them and given the choice will self segregate. Of course there are the exception which proves the rule as they say.


----------



## AmericanStand (Jul 29, 2014)

Tricky Grama said:


> They belong to the human race.



If this is a race the course needs work !


----------



## watcher (Sep 4, 2006)

oneraddad said:


> Ohhhhhh..... So HT is for solving the problems of blacks. How's that working out ?
> 
> You have any success stories yet ?


I do, several AAMOF. Any day now a young black man I have helped for a while will be going into the Navy and getting, I pray, a good education and a chance for a much better life than he was facing before. When I first met him he was your 'standard' angry young black man most likely heading for prison or a violent death on the streets. He thought the reason for all his problems was the fact that the racist world was doing everything it could to keep him down. Once he realized that it wasn't racists who were keeping him from getting an education it was his friends who thought "getting a white education" was for "Uncle Toms" and w/o an education it would be next to impossible to be much more than either a low paid unskilled peon, a bum sucking on the government teat or a criminal he changed.

You tell someone over and over that they are stupid, incapable of doing anything without help and such they will start to believe it. That's what the real racist have been doing to blacks basically since just after the civil war and are still doing it today. They do it to take power for themselves power from the blacks.


----------



## Woolieface (Feb 17, 2015)

painterswife said:


> I was talking about calling anyone ( poster or not ) names.


OHHHH...like calling Obama a dirty little weasel? Well, I honestly don't think his feelings are in danger of being hurt.


----------



## Tricky Grama (Oct 7, 2006)

mnn2501 said:


> Create your own board then. Discussion does not mean always agreeing and people here are passionate about many things.


Post of the YEAR award!
Wow, really.


----------



## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

Such a nice post. Why would I ever want to leave with such wonderful people here. So welcoming.


----------



## Tricky Grama (Oct 7, 2006)

watcher said:


> I do, several AAMOF. Any day now a young black man I have helped for a while will be going into the Navy and getting, I pray, a good education and a chance for a much better life than he was facing before. When I first met him he was your 'standard' angry young black man most likely heading for prison or a violent death on the streets. He thought the reason for all his problems was the fact that the racist world was doing everything it could to keep him down. Once he realized that it wasn't racists who were keeping him from getting an education it was his friends who thought "getting a white education" was for "Uncle Toms" and w/o an education it would be next to impossible to be much more than either a low paid unskilled peon, a bum sucking on the government teat or a criminal he changed.
> 
> You tell someone over and over that they are stupid, incapable of doing anything without help and such they will start to believe it. That's what the real racist have been doing to blacks basically since just after the civil war and are still doing it today. They do it to take power for themselves power from the blacks.


Post of the year award.

Watcher, if you want, would you tell us the young man's 1st name? Many here would like to keep him in our prayers...I KNOW God knows his name, but just so we'll remember...?

Our neighborhood just gave a scholarship to a similar young man, got in w/wrong crowd (I know, good excuse) & nearly lost his way AND his life. 
One starfish at a time, one at a time...


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## po boy (Jul 12, 2010)

Patchouli said:


> Read all of Poppy's posts, it's obviously his favorite pastime.  A few others here too.


He has about 11,500 post and I am pushing 70 years of age and don't have that much time left. Since you know the ones that apply, just post the links.

TIA


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## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

painterswife said:


> Such a nice post. Why would I ever want to leave with such wonderful people here. So welcoming.


And kind, helpful and well just plain nice. So inviting and tolerant of everyone.


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## Patchouli (Aug 3, 2011)

po boy said:


> He has about 11,500 post and I am pushing 70 years of age and don't have that much time left. Since you know the ones that apply, just post the links.
> 
> TIA


If you just looked at the threads he started you should find one in the last week.  

This ought to get you started: http://www.homesteadingtoday.com/search.php?searchid=5686438


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## nchobbyfarm (Apr 10, 2011)

The effects of these in your face posts has been to drive out the more moderate posters or at least cause then to post less. But worse, it has entrenched both sides and caused them to dig in more and widen the gap. Glad everyone is getting what they want. Won't be many left at this rate except the militant extremists of both sides.


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## Cornhusker (Mar 20, 2003)

Irish Pixie said:


> And kind, helpful and well just plain nice. So inviting and tolerant of everyone.


Yeah, those liberals huh?


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## po boy (Jul 12, 2010)

Patchouli said:


> If you just looked at the threads he started you should find one in the last week.
> 
> This ought to get you started: http://www.homesteadingtoday.com/search.php?searchid=5686438


Then link that one! I am not reading 200 post. It's a needle in a hay stack, you know where it is, link it.


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## arabian knight (Dec 19, 2005)

I do think that some better just go into their corner the others go to their corner wait till the bell rings and just stop and start from scratch. Or a nice new site is just looking for some that can be just of one-sided views.


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## watcher (Sep 4, 2006)

oneraddad said:


> Anybody here with the answers should let someone important know so they can get it fixed because it won't happen here.


Do you play checkers, cribbage, bridge and/or chess? I can tell you that the rules of each are very simple, so simple you can teach them to most preschool kids. But knowing the rules doesn't mean you can play the game well because the strategy of playing is very complicated. 

The same thing applies to many problems, the solutions aren't that difficult its getting them put into place that is complicated. Much more so when a lot of people don't want the problems solved because it would cost them jobs, money or power. 

A little background on me and this is about all I ever post about my private life online. I grew in a truly racist house in a racist area. I didn't know there was another word for a black person than the infamous "N" word until I went to school and there it was commonly used. A black man would step out of line to let any white person; man, woman or child go before them because to fail to do so could result in something bad happening to him. But I saw through that and became a strong believer in King's dream of judging a man by the content of his character and not the color of his skin. This lead to a lot of problems as I grew up but I followed it and taught my children to do the same. 

Now with that said you might see why I think the following.

One of the best ways to start solving the race problem is to get to King's dream and stop judging people based on the color of their skin. Start by getting the government out of the racism business. There should be no check box on any government form for what race you are. It shouldn't care if you are white or black or poka-dotted. 

With the current system blacks are told overtly and subliminally they are not as good as whites. They are told they aren't as smart as whites therefore they have to have 'bonus points' added to their college entrance scores to get in. They aren't as good as whites therefore they have to have affirmative action in place before they can get hired. They are told that they just can't make it on their own therefore they must be given stuff (housing, food, etc).

As I posted before if you tell someone something that over and over and over they will start to believe it.

It should also be out of the private race business. Like it or not you should have the right to like or dislike anyone you want for any reason you want and be able to express that opinion in any as long as it doesn't violate another's rights. And just so you know it you have no right to anything which must be provided by another person.

I rather see a sign in a business' window that says "No <insert description here> allowed" so I know where it stands than deal with a business which is covert in their avoidance of dealing with "those people". I rather know the people who use that business so I can know how they think as well. 

That would be a good start. But as I have said this will not happen because doing so would remove too much power and money from the real racist who benefit from the current system.


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## arabian knight (Dec 19, 2005)

Telling something over and over again people will sprat to believe such stuff is true even though it is far far from the truth.
Case in point People don't like Fox News.
Well if you add up ALL other news outlets and include the outlets on the internet Fox is over shadowed by the liberal media that keeps just shutting the same old thing and lies about the R's and soon people believe it is true, cause there are very very few conservative outlets.
Thank God there is a Fox News, and a Breitbart to tell the other side of things even if they have fewer Readers like Yahoo News and all those other online outlets that are so liberal.


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## Evons hubby (Oct 3, 2005)

painterswife said:


> it is so much more than a name calling site. You get to swear and tell people what you really think about them. It is the REAL flame proof undies forum.


I can usually get my point across without swearing or calling names.as to what I think of any posters.... I normally don't attach the attitude displayed in the post to a name one way or the other. I take the point of the post and discuss that. Very few posters here have caused me to form an opinion of them one way or another.


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## Evons hubby (Oct 3, 2005)

Woolieface said:


> Tell you the truth, I can't remember any posts where a poster called another a name. As in "you old doo-doo head, you". There might be a lot of implied insults but those are kind of up for subjective debate.


Taking a guess there are some here that would consider being called a democrat or republican a terrible insult, depending upon their party preference.


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## Cornhusker (Mar 20, 2003)

I believe the whole point of this thread was to give the OP an excuse to troll.
The OP had no intention of holding civil conversation.
There's a reason he/she got banned in the first place.
As usual, just my opinion.


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## poppy (Feb 21, 2008)

nchobbyfarm said:


> The effects of these in your face posts has been to drive out the more moderate posters or at least cause then to post less. But worse, it has entrenched both sides and caused them to dig in more and widen the gap. Glad everyone is getting what they want. Won't be many left at this rate except the militant extremists of both sides.


Nah, people been saying that for years. I think a vigorous back and forth makes it more interesting. Some get their knickers in a knot about it but they probably shouldn't discuss politics with anyone or even get on these forums if they upset that easily. I can truthfully say I never get angry at any post. It's just the internet. I may question the intelligence or common sense of a poster here and there but it is comforting to know there are people out there dumber than me and willing to prove it.:thumb:


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## Fennick (Apr 16, 2013)

Woolieface said:


> Tell you the truth, I can't remember any posts where a poster called another a name. As in "you old doo-doo head, you". There might be a lot of implied insults but those are kind of up for subjective debate.


I've never had anyone call me a really bad name but I've seen others do it in inventive ways. Except for being grouped in with those horrible "liberals" (oh, the horror) I think the worst anyone has called me occured one time in S&EP, a topic about freemen of the land. I was a brand new member with very few posts to my name on all of HT at the time (mostly in plant ID forum) and had only made 2 or 3 posts in S&EP, having just dipped my toe in the waters. 

One of the pet puppets who fancied himself as a prophet on that forum (now banned and I was glad to see him gone except he has now returned as a sock puppet) became inflamed by my offering of what I knew about freemen. The pet puppet berated me and referred to me as _"a nobody who hardly ever posts come crawling out of the woodwork"_ and then several other people "liked" the puppet's post. I only needed to see that person's one rude response and his name and the names of all the followers that liked his post to know who some of the most ignorant, insulting, bigoted people there were on the forum that needed to be avoided or ignored.

Some insults are blatant, some are subtley implied, tolerated and applauded, but I don't think there's anything subjective or debatable about it. An implied insult is still an insult and wouldn't be said if the person who said it didn't want it to be perceived as an insult whether it's blatant or subtle.


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## Jolly (Jan 8, 2004)

watcher said:


> Do you play checkers, cribbage, bridge and/or chess? I can tell you that the rules of each are very simple, so simple you can teach them to most preschool kids. But knowing the rules doesn't mean you can play the game well because the strategy of playing is very complicated.
> 
> The same thing applies to many problems, the solutions aren't that difficult its getting them put into place that is complicated. Much more so when a lot of people don't want the problems solved because it would cost them jobs, money or power.
> 
> ...


Quoted, because it was worth reading again.


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## gapeach (Dec 23, 2011)

Why would anyone want to be on a board like that? What is the point of calling people names?

Oops. I missed a page. The name calling forum is what I am referring to. That sounds a lot like the way the old insane asylums used to be.


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

> I only needed to see that person's one rude response and his name and the names of all the followers that liked his post to know who some of the most ignorant, insulting, bigoted people there were on the forum that needed to be avoided or ignored.


When they first added the "like" button, I said I didn't care for it, and I've never used it.

As you said, it does a great job of highlighting the cliques that form, and enables you to predict responses quite well

Say something snarky to me, and I can tell you 4 or 5 people who will instantly hit "like".


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

gapeach said:


> Why would anyone want to be on a board like that? What is the point of calling people names?
> 
> Oops. I missed a page. The name calling forum is what I am referring to. That sounds a lot like the way the old insane asylums used to be.


The fact it's allowed doesn't mean that's all anyone does, or that it's somehow required.

It just means no one is going to have a cow when you say what you think instead of having to use a thesaurus to keep from saying a "bad word".

Some of the conversations there are a lot more civil than the pretend "niceties" here


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## Fennick (Apr 16, 2013)

Bearfootfarm said:


> When they first added the "like" button, I said I didn't care for it, and I've never used it.
> 
> As you said, it does a great job of highlighting the cliques that form, and enables you to predict responses quite well
> 
> Say something snarky to me, and I can tell you 4 or 5 people who will instantly hit "like".


So true. For the most part, anyway.

Even if you don't use the like feature yourself, I hope you don't mind if other people like your posts.


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## Patchouli (Aug 3, 2011)

po boy said:


> Then link that one! I am not reading 200 post. It's a needle in a hay stack, you know where it is, link it.


All of them..... Start at the top and work your way through. :thumb: 

Okay I will have mercy on you, try this thread: http://www.homesteadingtoday.com/sp...l-chat/540298-new-doj-numbers-race-crime.html


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

Fennick said:


> So true. For the most part, anyway.
> 
> Even if you don't use the like feature yourself, I hope you don't mind if other people like your posts.


I don't mind at all

I just never used it because as you pointed out, it's often more as a "herd" response rather than a real "like' of what was said.

I try to read the posts without paying too much attention to who made them, and base my replies on content and not personalities.

Often it surprises people when they think they know I'm on a certain "side" when to me it's more case by case every time.

Even my worst enemies (the *truthful* ones) will tell you I try to get the facts right


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## AmericanStand (Jul 29, 2014)

poppy said:


> Because the blacks in our inner cities live a life of hell. How would you feel if you had to worry every day whether or not your teenager was going to get shot on his/her way to school or to the store? If you cared half as much about blacks as you pretend, you would be seeking answers to their problems instead of always playing the racism card. There will be no solving such problems until people like you realize we have to have honest debates on the core of the problem. Government freebies are not the solution and decades of history prove it. They only make it worse.



Lol you are gonna have a hard time convincing me oneraddad is racist !
OR pretending.


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## gibbsgirl (May 1, 2013)

Too funny. It's a wonder we all fit "in here" with the size of some of the egos.


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## Evons hubby (Oct 3, 2005)

I still don't know how many would be interested in civil discussions but it's becoming quite clear that there are several that aren't!


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## poppy (Feb 21, 2008)

Patchouli said:


> All of them..... Start at the top and work your way through. :thumb:
> 
> Okay I will have mercy on you, try this thread: http://www.homesteadingtoday.com/sp...l-chat/540298-new-doj-numbers-race-crime.html


I get it. You don't like facts. They aren't my numbers. I know they fly in the face of liberal talking points about all whites being racist. Why can't you cope with facts that show the vast majority of whites hate no other race?


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## watcher (Sep 4, 2006)

Bearfootfarm said:


> When they first added the "like" button, I said I didn't care for it, and I've never used it.
> 
> As you said, it does a great job of highlighting the cliques that form, and enables you to predict responses quite well
> 
> Say something snarky to me, and I can tell you 4 or 5 people who will instantly hit "like".


Something snarky to me. There I said it, I could use a few more likes


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## Patchouli (Aug 3, 2011)

poppy said:


> I get it. You don't like facts. They aren't my numbers. I know they fly in the face of liberal talking points about all whites being racist. Why can't you cope with facts that show the vast majority of whites hate no other race?



Facts? Is that what you are going with here? ound:

Alrighty I will bite: show me some facts that prove that whites are absolutely not racist by a large margin. Because I can pull some statistics that may shock you. And just to sort out your thinking no Liberals do not claim that all whites are racist. While you are pulling those statistics for me pull me just one link to a Liberal saying that. 

Cue crickets or an excuse.....


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## Old Vet (Oct 15, 2006)

Patchouli said:


> Facts? Is that what you are going with here? ound:
> 
> Alrighty I will bite: show me some facts that prove that whites are absolutely not racist by a large margin. Because I can pull some statistics that may shock you. And just to sort out your thinking no Liberals do not claim that all whites are racist. While you are pulling those statistics for me pull me just one link to a Liberal saying that.
> 
> Cue crickets or an excuse.....


 Showus what other races that are by alarge margin racist. If you use the same measure all of them are.


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## Guest (Jul 7, 2015)

Here ya go Patchouli one link:hand:
Read more: http://dailycaller.com/2015/03/27/s...ly-all-white-people-are-racist/#ixzz3fAv0WU6e


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## Woolieface (Feb 17, 2015)

Fennick said:


> I've never had anyone call me a really bad name but I've seen others do it in inventive ways. Except for being grouped in with those horrible "liberals" (oh, the horror) I think the worst anyone has called me occured one time in S&EP, a topic about freemen of the land. I was a brand new member with very few posts to my name on all of HT at the time (mostly in plant ID forum) and had only made 2 or 3 posts in S&EP, having just dipped my toe in the waters.
> 
> One of the pet puppets who fancied himself as a prophet on that forum (now banned and I was glad to see him gone except he has now returned as a sock puppet) became inflamed by my offering of what I knew about freemen. The pet puppet berated me and referred to me as _"a nobody who hardly ever posts come crawling out of the woodwork"_ and then several other people "liked" the puppet's post. I only needed to see that person's one rude response and his name and the names of all the followers that liked his post to know who some of the most ignorant, insulting, bigoted people there were on the forum that needed to be avoided or ignored.
> 
> Some insults are blatant, some are subtley implied, tolerated and applauded, but I don't think there's anything subjective or debatable about it. An implied insult is still an insult and wouldn't be said if the person who said it didn't want it to be perceived as an insult whether it's blatant or subtle.


I'm sure there are many insults subtly implied but there's probably also a lot of assumption that something is subtly implied when it isn't. I sort of have a short attention span for subtle implications anyway, so passive aggression can get boring around me. You can always ignore what you think people mean whether they do or not.


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

watcher said:


> Something snarky to me. There I said it, I could use a few more likes


Yep, all four are there.
It's too easy


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## Tricky Grama (Oct 7, 2006)

Patchouli said:


> If you just looked at the threads he started you should find one in the last week.
> 
> This ought to get you started: http://www.homesteadingtoday.com/search.php?searchid=5686438


Goes nowhere?


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## Tricky Grama (Oct 7, 2006)

watcher said:


> Do you play checkers, cribbage, bridge and/or chess? I can tell you that the rules of each are very simple, so simple you can teach them to most preschool kids. But knowing the rules doesn't mean you can play the game well because the strategy of playing is very complicated.
> 
> The same thing applies to many problems, the solutions aren't that difficult its getting them put into place that is complicated. Much more so when a lot of people don't want the problems solved because it would cost them jobs, money or power.
> 
> ...


Post of the millineum award.


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## Tricky Grama (Oct 7, 2006)

arabian knight said:


> Telling something over and over again people will sprat to believe such stuff is true even though it is far far from the truth.
> Case in point People don't like Fox News.
> Well if you add up ALL other news outlets and include the outlets on the internet Fox is over shadowed by the liberal media that keeps just shutting the same old thing and lies about the R's and soon people believe it is true, cause there are very very few conservative outlets.
> Thank God there is a Fox News, and a Breitbart to tell the other side of things even if they have fewer Readers like Yahoo News and all those other online outlets that are so liberal.


Well, ya know who believes that about FOX, the stupid voters, the ones Gruber was talking about...that would be the ones who voted for this LyingCorrupIneptadiministration & their UNhealthcare plan.


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## Tricky Grama (Oct 7, 2006)

AmericanStand said:


> Lol you are gonna have a hard time convincing me oneraddad is racist !
> OR pretending.


I see no where in his post that he said or even inferred there was racism...I DO see that he stated he felt there was NO caring, no solutions.


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## Tricky Grama (Oct 7, 2006)

Patchouli said:


> Facts? Is that what you are going with here? ound:
> 
> Alrighty I will bite: show me some facts that prove that whites are absolutely not racist by a large margin. Because I can pull some statistics that may shock you. And just to sort out your thinking no Liberals do not claim that all whites are racist. While you are pulling those statistics for me pull me just one link to a Liberal saying that.
> 
> Cue crickets or an excuse.....


OK, I HAVE to ask, please quote where it says ALL libs claim this?
I can point you to the criticism of the Tea Party a few years ago, MOST non-conservatives here as well as most of the lib media continued the LIE that the Tea Party was racist. 

I think I'll toss out there for fun...Conservatives give more to charity, give more $$, more of their time & more blood than do liberals. Proven in studies. Many poo-pooed this. I posted the studies-AGAIN, b/c I had in the past, as well. Then many snarky and rude things were said about Christians instead of admitting there were, in fact, after all, studies proving the FACTS.


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## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

Tricky Grama said:


> OK, I HAVE to ask, please quote where it says ALL libs claim this?
> I can point you to the criticism of the Tea Party a few years ago, MOST non-conservatives here as well as most of the lib media continued the LIE that the Tea Party was racist.
> 
> I think I'll toss out there for fun...Conservatives give more to charity, give more $$, more of their time & more blood than do liberals. Proven in studies. Many poo-pooed this. I posted the studies-AGAIN, b/c I had in the past, as well. Then many snarky and rude things were said about Christians instead of admitting there were, in fact, after all, studies proving the FACTS.


There is no black and white only shades of gray. I am a moderate non christian (but go ahead and call me a liberal you will anyway) and I know for a fact that I give more money to charity than some conservative christians. Why do I know this? Simply because I have more to give. 

There are skin heads (white conservative racists) in the tea party. It's proven, and one of the reasons why the tea party has lost support in recent years. 

When christians use their religion to promote they are better than the non religious it tends to upset those people that know it's not true. Snarky and rude, gets snarky and rude right back at you.


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## po boy (Jul 12, 2010)

Patchouli said:


> Facts? Is that what you are going with here? ound:
> 
> Alrighty I will bite: show me some facts that prove that whites are absolutely not racist by a large margin. Because I can pull some statistics that may shock you. And just to sort out your thinking no Liberals do not claim that all whites are racist. While you are pulling those statistics for me pull me just one link to a Liberal saying that.
> 
> Cue crickets or an excuse.....


Well, all liberals don't say all whites are racist, but a lot do
This whole thing is just silly as is the thing about poppy. I did read the thread you linked to and there was one post where he made a statement about blacks in a blanket fashion. He did not say all or some and I guess that gave oneraddad the open for his confession, proclamation, statement or whatever it was.
I have the impression there is more to onerad's trolling.


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## po boy (Jul 12, 2010)

Tricky Grama said:


> Goes nowhere?


Post # 27

Poppy used the term today's blacks.

He didn't say some nor did he say all. I doubt h meant all.

Just my opinion.

ETA: Your mileage may vary.


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## kasilofhome (Feb 10, 2005)

Why can't whites have a race stirrer like Al..... because most of us listened and learned and truly put Martin Luther king to heart..... boy what would Martin do
Aka WWMD bracelets should be marketed at all these riots.


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## Patchouli (Aug 3, 2011)

dlmcafee said:


> Here ya go Patchouli one link:hand:
> Read more: http://dailycaller.com/2015/03/27/s...ly-all-white-people-are-racist/#ixzz3fAv0WU6e



Sorry I had forgotten the utterly vapid waste of space that is Salon. I was actually mildly shocked they went that far though. I liked the responses to their Tweet. 

Kudos to you dlmcafee, I stand corrected. There actually are stupider Liberals in the world than I was aware of.


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## Patchouli (Aug 3, 2011)

Tricky Grama said:


> Goes nowhere?


It worked when I put it up, I guess there is a time limit for searches. Anyhoo I plugged in "blacks" for the word to search and Poppy as the poster.


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## po boy (Jul 12, 2010)

Patchouli said:


> It worked when I put it up, I guess there is a time limit for searches. Anyhoo I plugged in "blacks" for the word to search and Poppy as the poster.


Maybe, I'm doing this wrong. But when I do a search Blacks and Poppy, I get 194 post and a search with Black and Poppy I get 319 for a total of 513. A lot of those post were supportive of blacks, but if you use all of them it's a very small portion of all of Poppy's post. Less than 5%.


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## Cornhusker (Mar 20, 2003)

Patchouli said:


> Facts? Is that what you are going with here? ound:
> 
> Alrighty I will bite: show me some facts that prove that whites are absolutely not racist by a large margin. Because I can pull some statistics that may shock you. And just to sort out your thinking no Liberals do not claim that all whites are racist. While you are pulling those statistics for me pull me just one link to a Liberal saying that.
> 
> Cue crickets or an excuse.....


Do you believe blacks are not racist?
Seems to me that they are even more so, they just get away with it.
It's nothing to see blacks insult whites, call them names, hurl racial slurs, and nobody ever says a word about it, but let one white person say something and it's all over the news.
Bigots abound, and the bigot in the White House is exploding a race war


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## Cornhusker (Mar 20, 2003)

Irish Pixie said:


> There are skin heads (white conservative racists) in the tea party. It's proven, and one of the reasons why the tea party has lost support in recent years.


I'd like to see your proof of that
I'm pretty sure that's just another lie the left threw out there hoping stupid people would pass it on.

There are racists in the democrat party, that is proven, and even the most snarky lib can't deny it


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## arabian knight (Dec 19, 2005)




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## BlackFeather (Jun 17, 2014)

People identify themselves within groups. Look at this site here, I've seen country people look down on city people, conservatives look down on liberals and vise versa, Christians look down of non-Christians and vise versa. So is it any surprise that some will identify themselves by the race or nationality they originate from? The last time I posted this I got chewed out by someone who just didn't get it. Everyone is a little bit racist, it's true.

[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RovF1zsDoeM[/ame]


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## gapeach (Dec 23, 2011)

There are many Marxists and Communists in the Democrat Party!


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## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

Cornhusker said:


> I'd like to see your proof of that
> I'm pretty sure that's just another lie the left threw out there hoping stupid people would pass it on.
> 
> There are racists in the democrat party, that is proven, and even the most snarky lib can't deny it


There are racists, bigots, and misogynistic people everywhere even on this forum. 

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2010/oct/20/report-links-tea-party-to-white-supremacist-groups

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/10/24/tea-party-racist_n_4158262.html


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

> There are racists, bigots, and misogynistic people everywhere even on this forum.


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## fordy (Sep 13, 2003)

painterswife said:


> Okay I am putting it out there.
> 
> I want the name calling and put downs to stop. I don't want to see it on either side. I want to know who is willing to make the change and who is not.
> 
> ...


 ...........You , would like to "Purify" or restrict my free speech to suit your standards ? I , reserve the right to denigrate any Politican , Two faced Preacher , corrupt city mayor , slack jawed liberal , pedophile , presidential candidate , Mafia Union Boss , rapist comedian , or loud moth lesbian TV personality !!!!!! 
..........Insulting anyone in the USA with national recognition is or use to be a national past time . This is the very reason we should beable to see cartoons depicting Mohammad as Satin wearing a turbine in our newspapers without anyone having to worry about getting their throat cut . That freedom to denigrate those who deserve such should never be subject to editing or removal by the politically correct thought police . , fordy:flame:


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## mreynolds (Jan 1, 2015)

I admit to not being on here much as I have been busy but I am curious. How did a thread about being nice turn into another finger pointing session including racist and libs and cons? 


Just want to know, did my dog poop on the floor in here too? 

If so I apologize. He is getting a little long in the tooth and all.


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## Woolieface (Feb 17, 2015)

mreynolds said:


> I admit to not being on here much as I have been busy but I am curious. How did a thread about being nice turn into another finger pointing session including racist and libs and cons?
> 
> 
> Just want to know, did my dog poop on the floor in here too?
> ...


Hey, accidents happen.


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## po boy (Jul 12, 2010)

Irish Pixie said:


> There are racists, bigots, and misogynistic people everywhere even on this forum.
> 
> http://www.theguardian.com/world/2010/oct/20/report-links-tea-party-to-white-supremacist-groups
> 
> http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/10/24/tea-party-racist_n_4158262.html


LOL,

Reminds me of why I don't read anything Alex Jones writes.


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## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

po boy said:


> LOL,
> 
> Reminds me of why I don't read anything Alex Jones writes.


This type of response is why I don't bother to respond to some posters. It's not worth it because if the link isn't from an extreme right wing blog, vlog, or opinion piece it's not "real."


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## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

fordy said:


> ...........You , would like to "Purify" or restrict my free speech to suit your standards ? I , reserve the right to denigrate any Politican , Two faced Preacher , corrupt city mayor , slack jawed liberal , pedophile , presidential candidate , Mafia Union Boss , rapist comedian , or loud moth lesbian TV personality !!!!!!
> ..........Insulting anyone in the USA with national recognition is or use to be a national past time . This is the very reason we should beable to see cartoons depicting Mohammad as Satin wearing a turbine in our newspapers without anyone having to worry about getting their throat cut . That freedom to denigrate those who deserve such should never be subject to editing or removal by the politically correct thought police . , fordy:flame:


No matter how silly it makes you (collective you, there are tons on this forum alone) look, huh? Cuz that's your right!


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## Tricky Grama (Oct 7, 2006)

fordy said:


> ...........You , would like to "Purify" or restrict my free speech to suit your standards ? I , reserve the right to denigrate any Politician , Two faced Preacher , corrupt city mayor , slack jawed liberal , pedophile , presidential candidate , Mafia Union Boss , rapist comedian , or loud moth lesbian TV personality !!!!!!
> ..........Insulting anyone in the USA with national recognition is or use to be a national past time . This is the very reason we should be able to see cartoons depicting Mohammad as Satan wearing a turbine in our newspapers without anyone having to worry about getting their throat cut . That freedom to denigrate those who deserve such should never be subject to editing or removal by the politically correct thought police . , fordy:flame:


Post of the millineum award.


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## Tricky Grama (Oct 7, 2006)

Irish Pixie said:


> No matter how silly it makes you look, huh? Cuz that's your right!


Silly? Is that what you think of the Constitution? Or do you just call other posters silly? What part of what is written is silly? All? Just the 1st amendment part? The "right"?

You COULD do a poll. You could ask who thinks YOU are silly. Or by the comments of MANY of your posts-as well as the deleted ones-we could just tally up that. 

We've been over&over&over the 'name' calling. Seems as there's a handful who want the conservatives to stop it. Stop calling certain politicians names. Stop saying 'right & 'left'. But the "Handful"? Perfectly ok to continue w/name calling us-the individual posters-names.

So, if Fordy looks 'silly' to you, & a handful of others in that post or posts where he or any of us refers to a vile being in the media, betcha there's "HUNDREDS" who back him & would think your post looks 'silly'.


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## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

Tricky Grama said:


> Silly? Is that what you think of the Constitution? Or do you just call other posters silly? What part of what is written is silly? All? Just the 1st amendment part? The "right"?
> 
> You COULD do a poll. You could ask who thinks YOU are silly. Or by the comments of MANY of your posts-as well as the deleted ones-we could just tally up that.
> 
> ...


Isn't it wonderful to have an opinion?


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## DEKE01 (Jul 17, 2013)

Irish Pixie said:


> There are racists, bigots, and misogynistic people everywhere even on this forum.


Agreed. And were it not prohibited by HT, I would provide another link to a forum where you and Patch spend a lot of time, where a couple of high profile bigots spew hate, yet you don't bother to comment on it. 

I'm all for exposing and denouncing all of it.


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## po boy (Jul 12, 2010)

Irish Pixie said:


> This type of response is why I don't bother to respond to some posters. It's not worth it because if the link isn't from an extreme right wing blog, vlog, or opinion piece it's not "real."


Well that's funny!

I just compared your link to an extreme right winger. I give no credibility to either one.


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## Cornhusker (Mar 20, 2003)

Irish Pixie said:


> There are racists, bigots, and misogynistic people everywhere even on this forum.
> 
> http://www.theguardian.com/world/2010/oct/20/report-links-tea-party-to-white-supremacist-groups
> 
> http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/10/24/tea-party-racist_n_4158262.html


Let's see...the NAACP, a racist hate group says so, and you naturally believe it.
I'd bet money there's less hatred and racism in the Tea Party than the democrats party


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## po boy (Jul 12, 2010)

Cornhusker said:


> Let's see...the NAACP, a racist hate group says so, and you naturally believe it.
> I'd bet money there's less hatred and racism in the Tea Party than the democrats party


Goodness, are you saying The Black Panthers, Al Sharpton and Louis Farrakhan are racist and hate white folks.


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## poppy (Feb 21, 2008)

DEKE01 said:


> Agreed. And were it not prohibited by HT, I would provide another link to a forum where you and Patch spend a lot of time, where a couple of high profile bigots spew hate, yet you don't bother to comment on it.
> 
> I'm all for exposing and denouncing all of it.


Are you trying to tell me they are ignoring bigots spewing hate, probably even using fowl language, but complaining about what is said here? I can't believe that. That would make them hypocrites (sorry if that sounds like hate). Could it possibly be that they agree with the hate speech over there? I am completely dumbfounded over this revelation. They seem so sincere and pure of heart about disliking insults I figured they were the same everywhere they went. Makes me question their intent. Do they allow reporting posts over there even if you are not a poster? Woe is me. I feel used and disillusioned by all this.


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## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

DEKE01 said:


> Agreed. And were it not prohibited by HT, I would provide another link to a forum where you and Patch spend a lot of time, where a couple of high profile bigots spew hate, yet you don't bother to comment on it.
> 
> I'm all for exposing and denouncing all of it.


Aren't we were discussing what happens on Homesteading Today? I don't think the admin or mods want to import issues from other sites, but I could be wrong.


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## po boy (Jul 12, 2010)

poppy said:


> Are you trying to tell me they are ignoring bigots spewing hate, probably even using fowl language, but complaining about what is said here? I can't believe that. That would make them hypocrites (sorry if that sounds like hate). Could it possibly be that they agree with the hate speech over there? I am completely dumbfounded over this revelation. They seem so sincere and pure of heart about disliking insults I figured they were the same everywhere they went. Makes me question their intent. Do they allow reporting posts over there even if you are not a poster? Woe is me. I feel used and disillusioned by all this.


I always thought they just use HT to warm up before they went over there...
They tickle me


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## poppy (Feb 21, 2008)

Irish Pixie said:


> Aren't we were discussing what happens on Homesteading Today? I don't think the admin or mods want to import issues from other sites, but I could be wrong.



It is good to be able to understand the character of people you are discussing things with. I don't care what is discussed on other boards except the ones I post on. I am me on every board I get on. My views are the same everywhere. Posters sometimes have an agenda they are pushing and it is good to know that.


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## arabian knight (Dec 19, 2005)

po boy said:


> LOL,
> 
> Reminds me of why I don't read anything Alex Jones writes.


 You got that right, not worth it. Just a bunch of carp.


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## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

DEKE01 said:


> Agreed. And were it not prohibited by HT, I would provide another link to a forum where you and Patch spend a lot of time, where a couple of high profile bigots spew hate, yet you don't bother to comment on it.
> 
> I'm all for exposing and denouncing all of it.


Deke, you spend a lot of time there. Are you saying that all members don't ever bother to comment or just as often as you think they should?


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## poppy (Feb 21, 2008)

painterswife said:


> Deke, you spend a lot of time there. Are you saying that all members don't ever bother to comment or just as often as you think they should?



Since you say he spends a lot of time there, apparently you do too. Have you ever started a thread there asking people to agree to be more civil with those they disagree with like you did this thread? If not, why not?


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## Lisa in WA (Oct 11, 2004)

poppy said:


> Since you say he spends a lot of time there, apparently you do too. Have you ever started a thread there asking people to agree to be more civil with those they disagree with like you did this thread? If not, why not?


She wouldn't need to. People are far more civil over there than here.


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## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

poppy said:


> Since you say he spends a lot of time there, apparently you do too. Have you ever started a thread there asking people to agree to be more civil with those they disagree with like you did this thread? If not, why not?


How about you check it out for yourself. Lots of good info and conversations.


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## DEKE01 (Jul 17, 2013)

Irish Pixie said:


> Aren't we were discussing what happens on Homesteading Today? I don't think the admin or mods want to import issues from other sites, but I could be wrong.


I thought you wanted to take a stand against bigotry. Or maybe you just wanted to :stirpot: in a forum where your political opinions are in the minority? 

BTW - to return to your original theme, yeah, sure, I think we should all grow up and stop using the strictly personal attacks even against public figures, like when the public figures have an expansive figure. Talking about weight, looks, pants suits, hair styles, parents and relatives would be wrong anytime, but is especially wrong when the country is in what might very well be a terminal financial crisis. 

I could be wrong, but I think you object to the Obama equivalents of calling GWB, "Shrub". Please correct me where I'm wrong, but I think you would object to calling Obama---

Liar
Socialist
Fascist
lazy
undisciplined
Kenyan
Muslim
thief
perjurer
coward
buffoon
cunning
thickheaded
"the miserable tool of traitors and rebels,
"adrift on a current of racial fanaticism."
"I'm Not A Racist: I Hate His White Half Too" 
Filthy

almost all of those I took from a Chicago Trib editorial on how this pres is supposedly treated worse than previous ones, with the implication that it is due to race. 

Personally, I object to the last two, not only because Joe Biden once opined that Obama is "clean," but both comments enter the realm of race for no productive purpose. The rest, I may or may not agree with, but they are political speech and we are talking politics. 

It is curious why the left wants to restrict political speech when their pres is in power but have little problem with it when an evil Repub is in office. The attacks by the left and MSNBC on Palin continue to be highly personal and frankly bizarre. I don't think anyone here, or on TV has said that Obama should be forced to eat feces. But if I'm wrong, give a link and I'll denounce it, just don't try the common lefty tactic of equivalency where none exists. 

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/politics/martin-bashir-apologizes-sarah-palin-article-1.1521647


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## Tricky Grama (Oct 7, 2006)

DEKE01 said:


> Agreed. And were it not prohibited by HT, I would provide another link to a forum where you and Patch spend a lot of time, where a couple of high profile bigots spew hate, yet you don't bother to comment on it.
> 
> I'm all for exposing and denouncing all of it.


You must be wrong, DEKE. Pixie's told us she's a moderate & even said she's a republican.


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## Lisa in WA (Oct 11, 2004)

Tricky Grama said:


> You must be wrong, DEKE. Pixie's told us she's a moderate & even said she's a republican.


He must be wrong...he disagrees with what you do.


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## poppy (Feb 21, 2008)

painterswife said:


> How about you check it out for yourself. Lots of good info and conversations.


Nah, I actually have a life outside the internet. I'd be out working right now if it wasn't raining.


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## Lisa in WA (Oct 11, 2004)

poppy said:


> Nah, I actually have a life outside the internet. I'd be out working right now if it wasn't raining.


Do tell. One would almost think you are afraid to go to a little -moderated forum without your posse. Perish the thought.


Bring your posse with you.


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## no really (Aug 7, 2013)

basketti said:


> Do tell. One would almost think you are afraid to go to a little moderated forum without your posse. Perish the thought.
> 
> 
> Bring your posse with you.


Well golly, where is this nirvana of equality? Inquiring minds want to know :sing:


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## wr (Aug 10, 2003)

HT Admin and mods have no interest in anything that happens outside our group nor will we allow the import of conflicts from any other site to here. 

If one is interested in other sites, it's a free world and we have no interest in banning anyone who may participate elsewhere but in return, we also will delete any conflict or upheaval related to comments derived from other sites.


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## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

DEKE01 said:


> I thought you wanted to take a stand against bigotry. Or maybe you just wanted to :stirpot: in a forum where your political opinions are in the minority?
> 
> BTW - to return to your original theme, yeah, sure, I think we should all grow up and stop using the strictly personal attacks even against public figures, like when the public figures have an expansive figure. Talking about weight, looks, pants suits, hair styles, parents and relatives would be wrong anytime, but is especially wrong when the country is in what might very well be a terminal financial crisis.
> 
> ...


I'm not the "left" and I don't care if people call Obama a redheaded woodpecker, I object to assigning a woman's worth by the size of her butt. Perhaps you should be sure when you call someone out. 

And speaking of butts- did you get yours handed to you by someone you think is bigoted? I'll bet you did...


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## poppy (Feb 21, 2008)

basketti said:


> Do tell. One would almost think you are afraid to go to a little -moderated forum without your posse. Perish the thought.
> 
> 
> Bring your posse with you.


I go to some forums with very little moderation. I won't name them for you because they do not need their gene pool contaminated.:thumb:


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## Lisa in WA (Oct 11, 2004)

poppy said:


> I go to some forums with very little moderation. I won't name them for you because they do not need their gene pool contaminated.:thumb:


Uh-huh.


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## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

Tricky Grama said:


> You must be wrong, DEKE. Pixie's told us she's a moderate & even said she's a republican.


I am moderate, and a registered Republican. Those there were here when HT was first formed (and those on Lusenet when it was owned by Countryside) will know me by another name, Kincora Farm. I've always been fiscally conservative and socially liberal. Hence, a moderate. I'm gun friendly too. 

Anything else of a personal nature you want to know? My pantsuit size maybe? What I ate for breakfast? 

Are you going to continue to say you know me better than I do myself? :hysterical:


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## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

basketti said:


> Uh-huh.


Maybe he means the ultra secret, admittance by decoder ring only forum. The type that only admits people that agree with each other?


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## Lisa in WA (Oct 11, 2004)

Irish Pixie said:


> Maybe he means the ultra secret, admittance by decoder ring only forum. The type that only admits people that agree with each other?


Is that the forum that Angie started while banning people here for mentioning other forums?


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## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

Irish Pixie said:


> Maybe he means the ultra secret, admittance by decoder ring only forum. The type that only admits people that agree with each other?


That must be Angie's forum you are taking about.


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## DEKE01 (Jul 17, 2013)

painterswife said:


> Deke, you spend a lot of time there. Are you saying that all members don't ever bother to comment or just as often as you think they should?


What I am saying is exactly what I said. Don't try to make it something I didn't say.


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## DEKE01 (Jul 17, 2013)

basketti said:


> She wouldn't need to. People are far more civil over there than here.


Well...they are different. That is for sure.


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## Lisa in WA (Oct 11, 2004)

DEKE01 said:


> Well...they are different. That is for sure.


How so?


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## DEKE01 (Jul 17, 2013)

Irish Pixie said:


> I'm not the "left" and I don't care if people call Obama a redheaded woodpecker, I object to assigning a woman's worth by the size of her butt. Perhaps you should be sure when you call someone out.
> 
> And speaking of butts- did you get yours handed to you by someone you think is bigoted? I'll bet you did...


How did I call you out? I think we agree on women's butts, at least in one regard. 

As to your other comment, I have no idea what you mean. The bigot I called out retracted his statement and agreed it was bigoted and then of course, he made further bigoted statements on the same topic.


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## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

DEKE01 said:


> How did I call you out? I think we agree on women's butts, at least in one regard.
> 
> As to your other comment, I have no idea what you mean. The bigot I called out retracted his statement and agreed it was bigoted and then of course, he made further bigoted statements on the same topic.


Why did you quote my post?

I'm sure you don't know what I'm talking about.


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## DEKE01 (Jul 17, 2013)

Irish Pixie said:


> Why did you quote my post?
> 
> I'm sure you don't know what I'm talking about.


I quoted your post because I was responding to what you said. That's what we do here. 

But, having gone back to read that, yes, I did call you out for not having the same zeal to point out bigotry there as you do here. But I must admit, I'm not without flaw in that regard as well.


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## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

DEKE01 said:


> Well...they are different. That is for sure.





basketti said:


> How so?


I'm curious too. How so?


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## watcher (Sep 4, 2006)

Irish Pixie said:


> I'm not the "left" and I don't care if people call Obama a redheaded woodpecker, I object to assigning a woman's worth by the size of her butt. Perhaps you should be sure when you call someone out.


Like it or not humans tend to assign worth based on appearances. Companies spend millions (billions?) of dollars on getting the right appearance of their product. I'll tell you something else different cultures judge women body shape differently.


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## watcher (Sep 4, 2006)

Irish Pixie said:


> I am moderate, and a registered Republican. Those there were here when HT was first formed (and those on Lusenet when it was owned by Countryside) will know me by another name, Kincora Farm. I've always been fiscally conservative and socially liberal. Hence, a moderate. I'm gun friendly too.


How can you be fiscally conservative but socially liberal?


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## TripleD (Feb 12, 2011)

watcher said:


> How can you be fiscally conservative but socially liberal?


Other people's money ....


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## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

I'm pro choice, pro gay marriage, pro woman's rights, pro minority rights, etc... The fiscally conservative part means I'd like entitlement and other bloated programs reduced. I think the gun friendly part is self explanatory?

Now someone will be along to tell me I'm wrong... 3 2 1


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## AngieM2 (May 10, 2002)

Clarification.

The "Angie forum" is one I set up when some friends lost their space and the then Admin was not available for a month. It's not for everyone. I'm more a custodian and member. We all run it.

It has not been advertised here, and I went so far as to block it's name as the other one people talk of to be more fair.

And one of the posters on this thread even posed as Melissa to cause trouble, and let me know who it was via Facebook. Therefore, we did away with the welcome open forum and changed the forum name. 

It's not a public forum, not intended to be, and it is for like minded people that don't want to be trolled or bashed. 

Just wanted you to know I blocked it, as the other was blocked per then owners instructions.


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## gapeach (Dec 23, 2011)

It has been asked how some people have to much time to search for things on a computer. I wonder how people have so much time to be on so many other forums. I have a disabled DH and have to be home every day but I sure don't think it would be fun to be on a forum where it is ok to call people names and where no moderation is required. That reminds me of reality tv..

If I did not have to be home I sure would not be sitting around on a computer so much. I am not complaining. It is just the way things are. I'm very thankful to be physically able to handle the job of taking care of my husband.


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## wr (Aug 10, 2003)

I'm not sure there's much left to say in this thread but I'll review it and see if it can be cleaned up when my internet service is restored.


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