# Swollen glands



## MamaDee (May 10, 2006)

Do goats get swollen glands like people do?

My one year old doe Lilly has this "bump" or swollen area on her neck. I've been going crazy reading about CL, etc. Lots of you answered my post about it and I thank you.

What it really feels like is a swollen gland. You know the gland we humans have just under the jaw on the sides of our neck? And when they swell up you can feel them under the skin, bigger than normal and they move around under your fingers? That's just how Lilly's is. It's not "hard" but it feels like there's a walnut to golf ball sized bag of jel or something just under her skin --just below the jaw on one side. This doens't sound like anything I've read about CL---like a knot or something. Does a CL knot or bump move around under the skin when you press on it?

I couldn't find any bug bites, splinters, etc. She doesn't have a fever and seems otherwise healthy. Other than the fact that she just finished a treatment for coccidiosis and just had a miscarriage. Oh, and she has bald knees....but I've been told that that, at least, is normal! :baby04: 

Thanks for all the help. 

Dee


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## Idahoe (Feb 4, 2006)

CL abscesses are the swollen lymph glands themselves. That's why the CL lumps show up in semi predictable areas, like around the neck and jawline, down the brisket, etc. That said (I did read some on your previous topic) I hope she is OK. I'd definitely have a vet check it out or lance it and send in the exudate.


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## BlueHeronFarm (Feb 9, 2007)

One of our little doelings has a little lump at the base of her jaw - we have been advised it is likely a salivary cyst. Is that more or less the location on your goat? 
Ours will come and go - and we can often we can "aspirate" it just by pushing it a little, but then it fills back up and comes back.


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## MamaDee (May 10, 2006)

The only gland diagram I could find shows the salivary glands on the cheeks--that's not where this is. This is below the jawline on the side. I'll try to add the diagram I found into this post....if I can't though, it shows the area of swelling to be in the thymus area. Is this in the lymph system where CL attacks?

Dee


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## ozark_jewels (Oct 7, 2005)

If it is the gland under and to the side of the jawbone, then yes, CL can exhibit itself there with a swollen gland that will eventually abcess out. BUT!! Just like us humans when we are fighting off a bug or infection of some sort, animals do get swollen glands occaisionally, so it by no means MUST be CL. 
If he was mine, I would watch it very closely, see if it continues to grow. If it continues to grow or shows signs of the hair thinning, etc, GET HIM AWAY FROM YOUR HERD. But it may very well just disapear over the next several weeks.
If you do separate him and it seems to be coming to a head, please have your vet take care of it and test the contents so that you *know* and its not just a guessing game.


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## BlueHeronFarm (Feb 9, 2007)

I don't know if this is at all helpful but here is a photo of ours. The circle shows where her lump is - i would say jaw, not cheek... I am not sure about they thymus area being a CL spot.


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## MamaDee (May 10, 2006)

Lilly's is further down than your picture. THanks for posting it. I'll try to get a picture of Lilly....I'm still trying to figure out how to add that diagram. I can't find a "browse" icon anywhere to click and I can't figure out the "add image" one.

Dee


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## BlueHeronFarm (Feb 9, 2007)

I upload my photos to photobucket.com and then copy the image code from there into my post. 

Photos are great in posts - they really allow people to get an idea of what's going on. It should bring you better answers.


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## MamaDee (May 10, 2006)

Thanks for the help....here's the gland diagram. Her swollen spot is where they have labeled thymus. I'll take a picture of her and add that when I can get back down to the barn....baby is sleeping now (the human kind).  










Dee


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## BlueHeronFarm (Feb 9, 2007)

How old is she? I also have a baby with a milk goiter - which is right there - but centered. But that is a kid thing.

This may be regular, iodine-deficiency goiter?


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## MamaDee (May 10, 2006)

She is one year old. And she does have a free choice mineral mix. Is goiter centered on the throat? Her's is off to one side. I did think of goiter, but don't know why she would be deficient.

Dee


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## ozark_jewels (Oct 7, 2005)

Hey Dee, I just got a note from a new member(she can't post yet, her account isn't activated). She asked me to tell you that they had experience with a CL abcess on a doe they bought. It was in almost exactly the spot as the one on your doe. It was tested CL positive. She advocates extreme caution for this reason. She just asked me to pass this info on as she can't yet.


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## MamaDee (May 10, 2006)

Emily,

Thanks for the info. Did she say what it "felt" like?

Dee


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## ozark_jewels (Oct 7, 2005)

MamaDee said:


> Emily,
> 
> Thanks for the info. Did she say what it "felt" like?
> 
> Dee


Not really....she should be able to post in a few days....maybe she'll say then.


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## MamaDee (May 10, 2006)

Here are the pics of Lilly...tell me what you think.

Dee


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## crowinghen (Jul 25, 2004)

Dee,
I had a goat with Cl- the lumps were kind of in a line from the chest upward more to the side. They were about walnut sized, kind of firm. He had been starting to do poorly too, hair loss, thinning, etc. I was glad he had been kept seperate from the herd( he was a buck) but sad that he got it-- we had only had him a few months. We put him down. We had the whole herd tested, he was the only positive one. He must've had it when we got him-- live and learn.
It's pretty easy to draw blood and send it in to WSU veterinary lab-- then you will have peace about it.

One of my doelings a few years ago had an abscess kind of between her back legs, I had the exudate tested for CL, it was negative-- I was SICK with worry!!I know how you feel.

If you want to learn how to draw blood, google it, there's a really good site that has a young girl showing how it' s done-- it was surprisingly easy. You should be able to get the test tubes from your vet.
Good luck,
Susie


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## marytx (Dec 4, 2002)

My first thought from this photo would not be cl. Did this come up suddenly, then? Has she been wormed recently?
mary


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## southerngurl (May 11, 2003)

BlueHeronFarm said:


> One of our little doelings has a little lump at the base of her jaw - we have been advised it is likely a salivary cyst. Is that more or less the location on your goat?
> Ours will come and go - and we can often we can "aspirate" it just by pushing it a little, but then it fills back up and comes back.


How old is she, is she nursing mom?


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## BlueHeronFarm (Feb 9, 2007)

She's a bottle baby- 5 weeks now. Still has it - doesn't seem to bother her.


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## MamaDee (May 10, 2006)

The doe in the big pictures is one year old. She had a miscarriage a week ago. She had coccidiosis about 1 1/2 weeks ago and was treated with Albon. She had a fecal check clear of worms two weeks ago.

BlueHeronFarm, where is your bottle baby's lump? Can you post a pic, too?

Dee


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## BlueHeronFarm (Feb 9, 2007)

Dee-- I'll take some photos. We have one with a salivary cyst and one with a milk goiter (which looks ALOT like Lily's lump) ...poor lumpy babies.  Will try to post tomorrow.


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## Jim S. (Apr 22, 2004)

In my opinion, it's a milk goiter. You can treat it if you want to try. Treatment is kind of uneven, in my experience.

One way to treat is get some iodine and apply it on the front shoulder where the goat can lick it off.

Be sure there is loose mineral containing iodine where the kids can get it.

Some of these resolve as the goat gets to be an adult, some get too big and still show. 

It is called "milk goiter" because milk is not a good source of iodine, and a really growthy kid will have a high need for it.

Hope this might help some. You can relax cuz whatever it is, it is not anything nasty for her or the other goats.


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## Jim S. (Apr 22, 2004)

Oh, here, I found this at 

http://www2.luresext.edu/goats/training/nutrition.html



> The only proven biological function of iodine is as a component of thyroid hormones that regulate energy metabolism and reproductive function. The major iodine deficiency symptom is goiter - a swelled or enlarged thyroid gland in the neck. This should not be confused with the thymus gland in the neck on young animals (the thymus gland is especially pronounced in Nubian kids, but shrinks after several months of age). Also, iodine deficiency causes reduced growth and milk yield, pregnancy toxemia, and reproductive problems such as late term abortion, hairless fetus, retained placenta, and weak kids. Most of the southern U.S. has adequate iodine in the soil and most minerals and trace mineralized salts contain iodine. A number of areas in the northern U.S. are deficient in iodine due to soil geology.


This tells me that some goats I had treated who did resolve may have just had thymus enlargment that self-resolved. So I learned something today.


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## BlueHeronFarm (Feb 9, 2007)

Well, that's interesting. Wonder if our milk goiter is really a thymus enlargement. I'll still post photos.


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## marytx (Dec 4, 2002)

My Nubian kids routinely have milk neck (the thymus, I now guess).
I only thought this was worms because this is a mature doe that just kidded
mary


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## MamaDee (May 10, 2006)

This should not be confused with the thymus gland in the neck on young animals (the thymus gland is especially pronounced in Nubian kids, but shrinks after several months of age). Also, iodine deficiency causes reduced growth and milk yield, pregnancy toxemia, and reproductive problems such as late term abortion, >>>>>

Hmmmm.....now I wonder. Lilly did have what I thought was a milk goiter when she was a kid, but it went away when she was weaned. I don't know why she would have that now at one year old, unless she is not getting enough iodine. She has loose minerals available--of course, I don't know how much of that she eats since it's free choice. It is a interesting note that she just had a miscarriage.......(not late term, though, it was at 6 weeks).

As for the swollen thymus.....that's sure the area it looks like in her. But she isn't a nubian kid anymore--like I said, she's one. So.........

Thanks for the info. I'm going to do some more reading.

Dee


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## matt633 (Apr 11, 2007)

Mama, 

You replied to my post about my doe's lump. Mine looks the same......hair still intact, soft, gel-like feeling, same spot on neck/throat area. I'll try to post pics later today. I am wondering about the milk thing w/ yours having a miscarriage and mine just having had a baby die. I am just thinking out loud here (don't know much about goats yet). But, if they start producing early in pregnancy, could it have anything to do w/ production stopping abruptly? I don't know......just seems like a common thread ya know? 

Also, my goats have mineral blocks, so I am going to the feed store today to get loose mineral..maybe it will help.

Have you treated Lilly at all? Mine is not looking any better or worse, she seems to be fine, so I haven't done anything. In my INEXPERIENCE, I think nothing would be better than something at this point!

I'll try to get some pics on here in a bit.


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## 4Hmomwyo (May 7, 2007)

Sorry it took so long to get on to reply. The cycst that my doe had (that tested positive for cl) was located where the #2 spot is located on the diagram. From the angle of the first picture it looked to be the same location. It started out firm, but softened and burst within 2 weeks of forming. It never lost any hair until after it burst and I cleaned it out twice. The pictures you posted in the other thread look lower than it did in the first picture on here. Our doe was bred and raised by a breeder who had never had cl in her herd until she brought in a doe 2 years ago. The new doe has only had one abcess and the breeder lanced, cleaned etc. This doe had no history (she is two), but apparently the stress of the move and being pregnant caused it to come out. She is back with the breeder now though. Hope this was helpful!


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## matt633 (Apr 11, 2007)

Here's my pics. Any advice?


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## MamaDee (May 10, 2006)

I'm reviving this thread to let everyone that posted know that Lilly's neck is now completely fine. Matt633, how is your goat? 

I still don't know what it was, but it's gone. She did sneeze a few times back then and I haven't heard her lately so I wonder if it was a cold?

Or maybe a one year old Nubian can get self resolving thymus enlargement just like a kid? Dunno.

Anyway, I hate it when threads end and you don't know what happened. So I thought I'd post what happened!

Dee


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## fishhead (Jul 19, 2006)

Thanks for the update. It sounds like it was something else.


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