# choke......... again.......



## Oakshire_Farm (Dec 4, 2008)

Effing horse choked again today!!!! 
The last episode was just about a month ago, it kicked the snot out of him. He lost about 100lbs! It has been a HUGE battle to get the weight back on him, every time I try to give him grain he chokes on it!!! I have tried EVERYTHING! He will not touch alfalfa, he will not touch beet pulp, he nibbles at Equical, but it takes him a hour to get 6 cups into him!!!!! I have soaked everything, I have tried adding oil. I have been soaking his hay. He loves haylage, and has free choice of it. And seems to spend lots of time eating it, but he is not putting the weight back on????? The vet has been out his teeth are fine. He has been tubed twice now. The vet is now after today thinking that he may have a underlying issue?? So has put him on a course of antibiotics, after those are finished he says if he is still not putting on weight we may have to think about putting him down. My vet was going to chat with the others in the clinic and see if anyone else has any suggestions?

So at this point I am looking for any suggestions..... any one ever dealt with this??? Any tricks that have been handed down??? Anything??? I am just getting so frustrated with spending all the $$$ on different grains and getting on results. It would be fine if I was spending $25+ on a bag of grain if it put weight on him, but it drives me nuts to then have to feed it to my other 2 horses watching them getting fatter and fatter, and him not....... GGGGRRRRRRrrrrrrrrrrr


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## jill.costello (Aug 18, 2004)

Your vet has tubed him twice, has reccommended a course of antibiotics WITHOUT doing bloodwork to confirm an infection, and now will reccommend putting your horse down without further testing?

Your vet is an ignorant donkey's rear.

A severely choked horse will do it again IF the first choke was severe enough to scar or inflame the internal structures and mucosa. 

If your horse needs calories and chokes on anything but hay, then give him Alfalfa hay. (or cubes). You can top-dress a POWDERED fat supplement (available at Tractor Supply called Max-E-Glo by Manna-Pro) that is only $24.00 for 40 lbs. Throw the Alfalfa in a big tub and toss the supplement right on top; it smells and tastes like cookies; I'm sure your horse will ingest some of it.

It is time for a NEW vet; bloodwork to rule OUT infection, and a scope down his throat to VISUALISE the structures and see if anything's amiss.

This concept of "I don't know what's wrong with your horse so you should let me kill it" from inept veterinarians is getting really old and getting me really angry!


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## jill.costello (Aug 18, 2004)

Ugh, I apologise, you did say he won't eat Alfalfa. I find that very strange. Alfalfa should be beautifully green, the bale should spring open when you cut the strings, and the stem should be medium-fine with alot of leaf and blooms in it.


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## jill.costello (Aug 18, 2004)

Have you had him on probiotics daily since his last tubing and especially now that he's on antibiotics? His gut flora may be significantly out-of-wack and not letting him absorb the nutrition he does get down his throat...


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## Oakshire_Farm (Dec 4, 2008)

He has had blood work to rule that out..... Sorry I thought blood work would be covered in the "I have tried EVERYTHING" category. And I should mention I have had 2 vets look at him. 

You know when people just jump down your throat for asking for help is the thing that really ruins forums like this for me! 

A nicer way to say that would be....
Has your vet done bloodwork? 

How would you recommend getting a powdered supplement into a horse that cannot eat grain??? Or even apple sauce, I tried to give him his meds tonight in apple sauce, he will not touch it! 

I am looking for suggestions, not looking for a new vet. This guy is GREAT! But I am also a realist...... I am not going to spend thousands trying to fix a horse, I love my horses but I have always said I refuse to go into debt to save a horse..... I would rather put the horse down. And put the money saved towards a new horse. I know that may sound harsh. But feeding my family is more important that a horse to me.


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## beccachow (Nov 8, 2008)

Large stones to keep him from bolting grain? Sadly when a horse chokes once, it WILL most likely happen again, and again. If his throat is still sore from the episode, that will put him off his feed for a while.

You did all the normal stuff, worming etc? Does he like carrots and apples (cut very small) you can hide the powder supplement in those if he'll eat them. Buddy chokes about once a year, we look forward to it like a bad holiday. It takes him a bit to get back on his game.

I have been giving him Triple Crown Sr with a 33% fat also pelleted supplement, and watering it down so much I hate to get horsie kisses when he is done. I also lock him away from the ohers so he doesn't feel threatened over his feed and takes it nice and slow. When you soak, do you make it into a nice soup?

I feel your frustration, but give it a little more time ((hugs)). This isn't panic mode yet. I would assume if it was soemthing physical the vet would have noticed when tubing him. I like that your vet is going to ask a few colleagues, more heads and brains are a good thing.

Hang in there, I KNOW how frustrating it is.

Do not panic.


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## Molly Mckee (Jul 8, 2006)

I have had good luck mixing powdered meds or liquids with strawberry jello powder and a little bit of water to make a paste, then putting it into an old wormer tube and put it in the horses mouth. If you are giving pills you will have to mash them first. 

I wonder if the haylage is park of the problem. If his throat is sore from the last choke, the pieces of haylage may be getting stuck if he isn't chewing well. Is the vet okay with him having the haylage?


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## DamnearaFarm (Sep 27, 2007)

Hmmm... have you tried mixing a mash of whatever he WILL eat and beet pulp? I agree, a choke seems to do a number on their throats. It will put them off feed and usually causes choke again, particularly if the horse's feed isn't soaked down into almost a slurry. 
Good luck, choke sucks.


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## kscowboy (Apr 27, 2008)

four weeks after a severe choke the horse being alive is a pretty good success point. This time of year , summer , is not going to drive a huge appetite combined with the recent trauma. I'd be very hesitant to present any concentrate feeds at all and would focus on getting him the best grass hay you can find , not alfalfa.This horse's days of eating grain are probably over but that doesn't indicate a death sentence. Can you get brome hay in your area ? Get him fresh baled grass hay and give him the time to recover. Weight gain occurs over months not weeks.An absorption supplement to help his guy would be the best thing for him right now combined with a quality hay.


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## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

Oakshire_Farm said:


> He has had blood work to rule that out..... Sorry I thought blood work would be covered in the "I have tried EVERYTHING" category. And I should mention I have had 2 vets look at him.
> 
> You know when people just jump down your throat for asking for help is the thing that really ruins forums like this for me!
> 
> ...


Jill wasn't being nasty you didn't provide the information needed to even guess at what else could be done. Additionally, it wasn't aimed at you but at the Vet who _should_ have looked into the "why" of the choke during the first episode.


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## SFM in KY (May 11, 2002)

I suspect Oakshire is feeling at the end of her rope and is having problems dealing with a problem that she (and her vets) have not been able to solve rather than thinking whether her replies are going to sound defensive or not.

I've been there (though not with repeated choke) and I know how traumatic it can be when you have done absolutely everything you can think of, your vet (or vets) have done everything they can think of ... and nothing is working.

Several years ago I had a young mare that kept losing weight when everything else was fat ... absolutely no difference in care/feed. Did all of the usual things, power pack worming, teeth, probiotics, high-fat feed, beet pulp, vitamins, blood work showed nothing and she kept going down until she really looked like death warmed over. Bad enough for all of one summer that every time the vet came out we would look at her and discuss whether to put her down or not. We didn't and that fall she started to pick up again ... finally got back up to weight and never had another problem, went on to produce two foals and then go under saddle as a hunter pony. But I would never want to repeat that summer again ... I've never felt so helpless in my life.

I don't have any suggestions for Oakshire ... I've only dealt with four cases of choke in my life, all four separate horses, all young horses and all with grain. The choke was resolved and there was no repeat episodes so I'm no help in this specific situation, unfortunately.

The only possible suggestion I would have would be to consider putting him on Red Cell. That was what my vet suggested when the mare I had wasn't eating well, said it might help her appetite ... and because she was a picky eater, I had to put it in a syringe and squirt it in her mouth. Have no idea if it would help but if you haven't tried a liquid vitamin and he's not eating well/ eating grain with powdered vitamins added, you might try it.


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## offthegrid (Aug 11, 2009)

What about pasture, do you have any?

Agree with Jill about alfalfa....are you talking alfalfa cubes or actual alfalfa "hay"? I have never had a horse turn down baled alfalfa, in fact, I can't feed it because they eat it too quickly and gain too much weight on it.

Haylage -- what exactly do you mean? If you mean bagged hay (the kind that is sprayed with molassess), that is often very poor quality hay, just made more tasty with sugar. Not sure what other "haylage" is out there for horses...but bagged hay isn't always a good choice....or at least not as the primary source of calories & nutrients.

I'm not sure what Equical is....a supplement or a grain?

I also agree with the recommendation for TC senior - it can be fed as a full diet (although it would get pretty darn expensive), but my horses will trample me for it. I would probably wet it as well, even though it is pretty "soft" as grains go.

And I might start to add a tablespoon of soaked beet pulp or hay stretcher, then 2 Tb, and keep increasing it if the horse is eating the grain.

Good luck!


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## jill.costello (Aug 18, 2004)

I apologise again; my fervor was not directed at *you* AT ALL; it was directed at what I thought had been done by the vet per your post, and that he was ready to throw in the towel with such little info. 

Yes, now that I'm not ranting about vets jumping the gun anymore :stars:, I agree that some of the "chopped", bagged hay is the lesser quality hay that has been treated to make it tasty; but not nutritious.

Your horse's lack of appetite may be ulcers from the stress of the last choke... perhaps instead of investing in feeds right now, you could address just getting his appetite back with B-vitamins and Omeprazole (UlcerGuard paste). Again, if you've tried that and I missed it, I apologise, I'm just now getting that frantic horse-owner feeling about this myself...I would be panicked, too, in your situation at this point in the problem....


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## wr (Aug 10, 2003)

I have a wily old gal that will not take any powdered meds/vitamins with grain or anything else and Molly Mckee's method has worked very well for me for years.


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## SDjulieinSC (Aug 8, 2005)

Have you considered the possibility of an ulcer?

ETA>>>Just noticed that Jill has already asked................


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## Oakshire_Farm (Dec 4, 2008)

The vet did not figure ulcers, teeth have been checked and are great, they were floated last may. blood work is normal, I have tried both alfalfa cubes, soaked and dry, and baled alfalfa, he will not touch it. We have pasture, and good pasture, but he prefers to eat the haylage. We make all of our own hay and haylage. It seems haylage means different things in different areas??? Ours is good quality orchard grass that we cut and round bale the next day while it is still green, then it is plastic wrapped and if ferments. Similar to silage but not chopped. The vet thinks it is a good choice for him, be cause it is not dry and hard on his throat. The Eqical is a concentrated complete feed that it used for weight gain and hard keepers. I am in Canada, and may of the products that have been named are not available here  The vet says that there may be a neurological issue with his esophagus ??? Which oddly enough brought up a story from his past..... He was originally bought as a 2 year old by a friend of mine, she sold him at 8 years old, he went to a saddlebred person, she used him for CTR, he took a bad fall and she figured it was neurological issues. Now I have heard this story through the grape vine and I have no idea if it was confirmed by a vet??? But this woman than gave him to the idiot that starved and neglected him for 2 years before being seized by the SPCA. So I told this to the vet, he said it could be true and then he was triggered and he is having issues again???? About 2 weeks before choke episode #1, we were out on a trail ride and he was a bit full of him self, on of the girls that joined us was on a stallion that had not been out in a group and he really made it a high energy ride  He spooked, with my husband on him and bolted, one of the other girls on the ride turned her gelding around to see what was going on and turned him right into his path. He ran straight into the other horse, knocked him FLYING, rider was thrown. My hubby some how managed to stay on and get control. Could this episode have triggered something in his brain????? I have no idea, I am just grasping at straws...........

On a happy note, he was bright eyed this morning, completely off food  Has not drank any water  But I am going to keep stalled a few days to keep a close eye on his feed intake. He is pooping normally, not alot, but he did not eat anything yesterday or so far today  I will keep posting updated on him. I am going to try and figure out how to make the antibiotics into a paste, so I can squirt them into him like a wormer????


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## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

Oakshire_Farm said:


> I am going to try and figure out how to make the antibiotics into a paste, so I can squirt them into him like a wormer????


If you dissolve the antibiotics into a large barrel syringe with water or apple juice and then squirt it high up into his mouth (so he has to swallow it) it's easier than making a paste. Most antibiotics dissolve fairly easily, other things don't so you have to make a paste. 

I hope it all works out for you and your horse.


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## Oakshire_Farm (Dec 4, 2008)

The vet said this kind does not dissolve very easy  But I will give that a try. I have some apple sauce I was going to try too


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## wolffeathers (Dec 20, 2010)

Is there a go-to place or a very highly thought of vet in the area? I know you stated you had two different vets out.

Here, if a vet cannot figure it out themselves, they send you to the School of Veterinary Medicine(2-3 hours away) where they deal with the complicated cases. Maybe there is a place like that near you?

It definitely sounds like a complicated case. Hopefully it is something that can be resolved.


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## offthegrid (Aug 11, 2009)

Oakshire_Farm said:


> The vet said this kind does not dissolve very easy  But I will give that a try. I have some apple sauce I was going to try too


Use a pill crusher (or plastic baggie & hammer) and mix them w/ applesauce & molasses and stuff it into an old (clean) dewormer syringe. They don't need to dissolve.

I've heard of haylage as you describe for cows but never for horses. Although they probably eat it too.. just not around here.

I know you said your vet said his teeth were fine, but it does make me wonder if he prefers haylage to grass pasture (my horses will always take pasture over anything). Curious if maybe his front teeth don't allow him to cut grass easily? Just another thought if you run out of ideas - perhaps having an equine dentist take a look at his teeth as well. 

Of course there could be underlying issues, but if he's gone most of his life w/o these issues affecting him, I'm thinking it's more about the food or possibly scarring from the last choke incident? Not that it makes your job easier, of course....


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## Oakshire_Farm (Dec 4, 2008)

The only Vet school in Canada is on the other side of the Country  So that is not a option...... I think the reason he prefers the haylage is because I have to put him in a separate pasture to get the green grass, he just stands at the gate to be with the other horses, there is only a fence separating them. My other 2 are FAT! and the last thing they need is lush, green spring grass. Here is pretty common to feed haylage to horses, there is a risk of botulism from feeding it to horses, but honestly I have never heard of a case, it just a risk, but not a common one. A Equine dentist! I wish!!! But for some STUPID reason, the BCVMA (British Columbia Veterinary Medical Assn.) has decided that Equine Dentists are making money and they have raised enough of a stink about it that it is illegal for a Equine Dentist to practice in our Province??? I know STUPID!!! 

He is feeling pretty yucky still this afternoon, not touching his hay.


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## GrannyCarol (Mar 23, 2005)

When I had to give Star pain meds, she wouldn't eat them, but I mixed them with peanut butter and used a dosing syringe to give them to her. She still didn't like it, but we got them in her. You do have to wash out dosing syringes well every so often, they tend to get sticky. 

So sorry you have this problem, it's always hard to be helpless when your pets are not well.


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## wr (Aug 10, 2003)

Oakshire_Farm, call Moore & Company over here in Alberta and take a few minutes to explain your situation and ask for their thoughts or if they can refer you to a vet within a reasonable distance from your home. They're a bit far for me to use them but anytime I've had an unusual situation arise, the've been incredibly helpful. 

http://www.mooreequine.ca/index.asp 

If you're not overly comfortable calling them, you could call my cranky old vet and perhaps he could consult with your vet and come up with a solultion. His stallside manner can be a big gruff but as long as he thinks you're trying to do the best you can for your horse, he's pretty reasonable. 

My daughter is living in Vancouver and while her schedule is a bit hectic because she works in a club and moonlights as a promoter and photographer, we might be able to make arrangements for her to come over, help you with the medication and take a look at the horse.


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## farmergirl (Aug 2, 2005)

You mentioned that his teeth were floated last May. I assume you mean 13 months ago, right? I have a horse who needs his teeth floated every 9 months. Wasn't always that way, used to do them every 12 months, but as he has aged he has become far more sensitive to changes in his mouth. Even the tiniest little hook will cause him to not eat as well.

If I were you, I would have the horses teeth floated again. Then I would put him out in the pasture with the other two fat horses. The fat horses can wear grazing muzzles to keep them from bursting, and that way he doesn't have to choose between his buddies and eating.

If he won't eat beet pulp or alfalfa, look for a complete Senior feed (here in the states we have Purina's Equine Senior). It's a pelleted feed that turns into a nice mash when soaked for 10 minutes. To that you can add the antibiotics and probiotics. 

I will say though that antibiotics can kill any appetite the horse has, not to mention kill off healthy gut flora. To give antibiotics because nothing else is working is a mistake, IMO.

Best of luck to you and the horse. I'm one of those rare birds that WILL go into debt to save a horse, but I realize that's not common.


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## beccachow (Nov 8, 2008)

farmergirl said:


> Best of luck to you and the horse. I'm one of those rare birds that WILL go into debt to save a horse, but I realize that's not common.


Boy did my wallett sceram agreement on that one!!!


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## wr (Aug 10, 2003)

farmergirl said:


> Best of luck to you and the horse. I'm one of those rare birds that WILL go into debt to save a horse, but I realize that's not common.


I hope you didn't intend to sound as condescending and rude as it seems because that's not how we operate here. 

You have absoloutely no idea if this person has or has not gone into debt over this horse nor do you have the right to suggest they should. You also don't know if this person happened to have contacted me make arrangements for my daughter to come out or if they happened to contact the most modern and comprehensive vet clinic that I suggested. 

The one thing we do know is that this person came here asking for advice and showering them with that special tone, runs more people off than helpful advice ever did.


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## farmergirl (Aug 2, 2005)

My post was a direct response to her mention that she wasn't willing to go into debt over the horse. I simply was saying that even though I will, I know that's not a common or even recommended thing to do.

I've posted here for a long time. You know that I am not normally confrontational or otherwise condescending. I'm sorry if my post sounded that way, t'was not my intent.


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## farmergirl (Aug 2, 2005)

Forgot to mention, I did post lots of advice, none of which reads as condescending to me. I honestly don't get where the problem is in my post


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## wr (Aug 10, 2003)

farmergirl, then please carry on as you wish but it might be a good idea if you were aware that your tone and HT's policies might differ.


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## where I want to (Oct 28, 2008)

This is real old-timey stuff but have you tried fortified B complex? I can remember vaguely using this with a horse who didn't seem to want to eat well. 
Simply being dehydrated can make a person feel awful so maybe that's an issue with him too. 
But I wonder if he might have something hurting him when he eats, even a tooth abscess. This might make him reluctant to chew and lead to choke. They can be hard to find.
But on a simple try anything to get some weight on him- what about adding a sugar to his drinking water? If soda makes people fat, maybe it would add enough calories to help him a bit. I've never tried it on a horse but he might take a warm molassas drink a couple of times a day. Or if he doesn't, a giant syringe squirted into his mouth holding his head up so it's level. In the old days, we used to drench a horse with a soda bottle, sliding it over the bars with the head head held up level. Small amounts at a time so as to allow the horse to swallow, holding the head up til there was a swallow, even rubbing the throat to encourage it. 
Most of it would end up in the horse's stomach- some ended up on the person's hair.


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## Del Gue (Apr 5, 2010)

Have you tried timothy grass pellets?
Tractor supply sells them, they are made by Standlee.

Not may people even know they make timothy grass pellets.


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## farmergirl (Aug 2, 2005)

wr said:


> farmergirl, then please carry on as you wish but it might be a good idea if you were aware that your tone and HT's policies might differ.


Never had a problem before. Tone is easily misunderstood in written form. 
As I stated, t'was NOT my intention to condescend. BeccaChow got my comment as it was intended.

I know that my approach to horses and money is different than a lot of people's way, in fact, it's how I got the hand-me-down horse I've posted about here.

I took the time to answer with advice I thought helpful based on my own personal experience with horses and choke, and horse nutrition and health. Is that not what this forum is about? Neighbors helping neighbors?


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## Oakshire_Farm (Dec 4, 2008)

First of all.......

Thankyou all for the GOOD advice, 

-His teeth were checked on monday, no hooks or over growth.
- feeding any grain is out of the question, I have been trying to feed senior/complete feeds, he will not touch them! If he does, he chokes AGAIN! I have tried soaking them as well, he still chokes.
-I have looked for timothy pellets, they are not available in my area 

Update - - He is "nibbling" on haylage right now. I think it is easier than dry hay for him to get down?
The vet called today, he has spoken with 2 other vets, they all agree NOT TO FEED HIM ANY GRAINS! If he chokes again and needs to be tubed, it will only set him back, since every time he is tubed he goes off feed for a few days. They have agreed to switch him onto injection penicillin. So this is what we are trying for now. 

wr - thanks for the offer of your daughter, but I am over on Vancouver Island, not as easy as a drive across town to come over. since switching to the injectable, meds are not a problem. I have looked at the website, my vet has been talking to our local "specialist" equine vet. He has been really helpful! 

farmergirl - don't judge me because I am not willing to go into debt for a horse, it is QUALITY OF LIFE BEFORE QUANTITY. The vets have all figured that he either has a mild pneumonia which is the reason for not being able to put back on the weight. or there is neurological issues in his esophagus. If it turns out to be neurological, I will put him down. unlike many people I think a little more realistic, I will not stand back and pour huge amounts of money into a animal that will never have a good quality of life, I would rather suffer the heart ache of loosing a "pet" than watch a animal struggle to keep good condition. I love all of my critters but if mortgage payments and food on the table come way before animals. Call me cruel, fine, but that is how things work here. This horse has been rescued from a horrible situation once before, he was seized by the SPCA. In his short 13 years he has been through more suffering than any animal should have to. 

I have been adding some molasses to his water and syringing it into him. To make sure he stays hydrated.


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## DamnearaFarm (Sep 27, 2007)

farmergirl said:


> Never had a problem before. Tone is easily misunderstood in written form.
> As I stated, t'was NOT my intention to condescend. BeccaChow got my comment as it was intended.
> 
> I know that my approach to horses and money is different than a lot of people's way, in fact, it's how I got the hand-me-down horse I've posted about here.
> ...


Don't worry about it- I know what you mean. I'm one of the few people in this area who would (back when I could afford it) go in debt. 

I also understand the OP's stance, especially when the vet thinks it could be neurologicial. 

Regardless, I hope the horse finds relief soon, in whatever manner is necessary.


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## wr (Aug 10, 2003)

Oakshire_Farm, I had a good idea where you were at and she's a photographer with itchy feet so she's always up for a road trip and adventure. I do hope the injectible works better for you and to be quite honest I prefer them to oral. 

BTW, I got thinking last night and is your horse running any snot?


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## farmergirl (Aug 2, 2005)

Oakshire_Farm said:


> First of all.......
> 
> Thankyou all for the GOOD advice,
> 
> ...


SO wasn't intending to judge. It was more a rolling of the eyes at myself, which at lease one other poster could relate with. I've stated a couple times that I didn't intend to be rude or condescending. I'm sorry that it read that way to you.
I do have experience with choke, and with enticing picky eaters to eat, thought I could help with some advice.

Hope the horse improves.


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## Oakshire_Farm (Dec 4, 2008)

nope, no snot.

The injectable is so much easier! If would be fine if I could give him grain to hide the powdered stuff in, but it is hard to hide it on anything. 

Fingers are crossed that we notice a change soon.


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## jill.costello (Aug 18, 2004)

Oakshire_Farm said:


> nope, no snot.
> 
> The injectable is so much easier! If would be fine if I could give him grain to hide the powdered stuff in, but it is hard to hide it on anything.
> 
> Fingers are crossed that we notice a change soon.


I'm praying this works; I do hope you notice a change! I would do all you're doing at this point, myself, but I would add just that one more thing: the UlcerGuard paste. Even a tiny stomach ulcer can make a sensitive horse not eat, and the Ulcer Guard works FAST; we gave it to a sickly foal who had been on a huge course of antibiotics for an umbilical infection and he turned around after only 3 days on the UlcerGuard (omeprazole). I myself am on Omeprazole every day for MY "pre-ulcerous" condition, and it is a god-send! If I forget and miss just one day, I KNOW it; I feel lousy.

Here in the US, it's about $29.00 per tube, but I think you get 5 doses out of one tube, so one tube would be enough to either note that it's working or not....


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## wr (Aug 10, 2003)

Jill, I agree that an ulcer should be considered and the product you mention is a lot cheaper than what I used several years ago.


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## Oakshire_Farm (Dec 4, 2008)

I will give the call about the possibility of a ulcer? I have no experience with them. So I will go and google it and see what I can learn today.......

Thanks


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## jill.costello (Aug 18, 2004)

http://www.equinepi.com/faq/ulcers.html#ulcer6


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## farmergirl (Aug 2, 2005)

Can any of the local vets do an endoscopy on him? That would be helpful to see if there is a lot of scarring from the last episode that might be making him hesitant to swallow. 
They could also look for ulcers.


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## hrslvrtrailridr (Jan 9, 2007)

Have you had him checked for vitamin E deficiency.
Symptoms: lack of coordination, poor weight, lethargy.
Here in Alaska we see a lot of horses that are E deficient.

I own a horse who chokes and has had aspirated pnemonia from choking. She eats hay fine but any other foods (pellets, grain, pulps) I soak just enough to soften it.

Was wondering if a pelleted concentrate such as a Mare and Foal formula, soaked of course, would help with weight gain. It also has double the nutritional supplementation then regular complete feeds. Just a suggestion.


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## jill.costello (Aug 18, 2004)

hrslvrtrailridr said:


> Have you had him checked for vitamin E deficiency.
> Symptoms: lack of coordination, poor weight, lethargy.
> Here in Alaska we see a lot of horses that are E deficient.
> 
> ...


All of this things have been suggested and what the issue seems to be is his WILLINGNESS to eat high-concentrate foods of any kind....which brings us back to possible tummy troubles/ulcers or scarring in the throat from previous choke, etc.... soooo frustrating!


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## Oakshire_Farm (Dec 4, 2008)

Well........ I think I saw a twinkle tonight!!!! He ran away from me! lol, I never thought that would be a good thing. I went to get him to bring him to the barn for his antibiotics, and instead of just standing in the pasture with his head hanging low...... he ran away from me!!!!!!!!!!!! hahahaha ahhhhhh it is the stupid little things that make us crazy. So I am hoping he is feeling better?


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## Stonybrook (Sep 22, 2007)

I don't think the Ulcer Guard would hurt him at all even if he doesn't have an ulcer, but you know horses are pretty sensitive critters and many of them are prone to ulcers when stressed. Your horse has reason to be stressed. If you can find a good quality pelleted hay (I use the Standlee brand from Tractor Supply) you can soak it really well and I think he should be able to swallow it fine. You have to soak it with hot water though to really dissolve it well. Surely someone in your region sells hay pellets. Also, if he is even nibbling at your haylage, could you add something Rice Bran Oil or one of the other oils? The extra fat will give him some extra calories.


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## beccachow (Nov 8, 2008)

Running away from you is a good sign...really sick horses tend to be pathetic and lethagic. Just remember, between thr tubings and the blockage, he maynot be in much shape for food for sevral days. Encourage water, it will elp soothe his throat.


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## Oakshire_Farm (Dec 4, 2008)

I am going to grab some of the Ulcer guard, I have heard enough people say it is worth a try and is not going to hurt him if it is not the problem. Is it a powder? That may be a problem? I have no idea how I am going to get it into him??? The pelleted hay is not something I am willing to risk trying..... Every time he has had grain or cubed alfalfa he chokes on it. So I am going to stick with the haylage and grass. I know he is good on those, I don't want to try feeding something new and risk another choke episode.


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## beccachow (Nov 8, 2008)

My vet recommended good old pepto bismol to my guy when he pulled his colic for a week episode a few years back. Look that up...if you can use it on him (or maalox) you cane squirt it down his throat. You will look lovely in Pepto Pink, it is quite a flattering color. Also, the maalox and pepto come in chewable. Please double check my info on line, could be an option.


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## jill.costello (Aug 18, 2004)

The UlcerGuard is in a tube of paste, just like a wormer tube! Give him a good loading dose (like 2x the daily dose) and then follow the directions thereafter! I'm SO DARN GLAD you're going to try it! Wouldn't it just be magnificent if that was the trouble?! That would be such a relief to know what EXACTLY to treat for!! You can give ProBios paste for many days in conjunction to help re-populate his gut flora now that he's had antibiotics, too....


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## beccachow (Nov 8, 2008)

hey, how's it going? How is he doing? Being the owner of a choke prone horse, I thnjk of you guys often. Update?


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## Oakshire_Farm (Dec 4, 2008)

Things are going GREAT!!!!! He has way more spunk! Took me 5 minutes of chasing him around to catch him this morning for his shot. We are going to wait to start on the ulcer med treatments. I have found a good product that has been recommended by a few local people. He "looks" like he is putting weight back on!!!!! YAY The spark is back in his eyes! He even took off trotting away from me this morning. I think we may get through this! I am staying very cautious. I am going to start the ulcer treatment at the beginning of next week. Once the antibiotics are done.


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## beccachow (Nov 8, 2008)

Such great news. 

I have to laugh at chasing him for his shot...old Sid had some serious cloudy eye issues, they come and go, and he HATES antibiotic ointments in his eye, throws his head so far up in the air he clocked himslef on the ceiling of the stall. Called the vet, said Sid was being uncooperative, and vet suggested a low dose of Rompun (he had also been there and tried to give him the antibioic), wait til he quieted down, then goop his eye up. Now Rumpun is NOT a low dose sedative, we already knew Ace wasn't going to work. So, full of myself and armed with Rompun, I approached him and gave him the shot, giggling at how easy this would be. His eyes glazed over, his head dropped...I had him under the overhang since being in a stall flips him out now, I think he sees shadows in there. So, there he was, putty uin my hands...I confidently and quite smugly pulled out thhe drop tubes...Sid immediately ran past me, and ran across the field. Full of Rompun. Running like a drunk person. I gave chase, cause just how fast can he run doped up like that?? Answer: Very fast. I finally stopped because he kept stumbling and running sideways...I was afraid he would seriously trip and fall. I called the vet back, and after he stopped laughing at me, we devised a two person halter holding exursion (which resulted in two of us being lifted in the air dangling by his halter). It took days of just catching him and petting him, then releasing him until I could finally get that stuff in his eye; whatever the infection is comes and goes. I keep him fly masked now to keep the sun from hitting that eye and pray the infection stays away, becasue THAT is a nightmare, lol. Oh, and if you accidnetally inject your thumb with Rompun, you will not get high. Don't ask me how I know this.

Buddy went through a HORRIBLE time before his teeth were floated, he was easily 300 pounds underweight. He looks like a normal horse again, but I was able to grain him and mix weight gain powder in there. Perhaps if you get that ulcer med in him a few days, his appetite for grain will pick back up. Soupy soupy sloppy elderly pellets.

Keeep us posted, I love the spunk coming back. Perhaps just catching him, petting him and releasing him in betweeen shots would be a good way to win him back, after all, the past few times he was caught weere MOST unpleasant for him). The most promising signs that Buddy was coming back aroound, when he would full out gallop to the barn for his feed. He has gone from emaciated to...er....rather lean, now. Since I have been so sick again, I haven't been able to get out there to grain him for a week, he is doing fine on grass alone now, tho I know he would still benefit from grain, I just cannot do it right now.

Keep up the good work! Patience and love will win most of the time.  :goodjob:


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## Oakshire_Farm (Dec 4, 2008)

Todays update........ Diesel just had his final dose of antibiotics...... The weight is flying back onto him!!!!! He is looking great! And I just finished a riveting 45 minute long game of "Ring Around the Stallion" Diesel know the shot is coming.... so he has decided rather than running laps of the pasture, like we have been doing  He was going to do small circles around my stallion (He is a Shire) so Patriot (the Shire) is sleeping and as docile as anything, So we played keep away.. I followed Diesel in small circles for what seemed like forever til I tricked him....... I went under the sleeping stallion and caught him! HAHAHAHA, I wish I had thought of that move 5 minuted into our game! Either way, antibiotics are done! I am hoping if I ignore Diesel for a few days he will forgive me and be as easy to catch as he used to be. 

For now I am just going to let him be, and watch him get fatter and keep my fingers crossed that he gets back up to a healthy weight. I am kicking my self now that I have not been taking weekly photos of him to show the loss and not the gain


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## Sededl (Jan 14, 2011)

I dont know if this will help or not, but ive always heard add molases or gatorade to their water to not only help hydrate but also to cover yucky tasting water. Maybe you could get some sort of herb that would stimulate appetite and slip it into his water. I have also heard that for keeping weight some people feed boiled white rice. I know it sounds crazy. but it works. This is also really good for chronic cases of diarrhea.


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## Oakshire_Farm (Dec 4, 2008)

I thought I should post a update on Diesle........... he is looking FANTASTIC!!!!!!!!!! well compaired to a few weeks ago, but he is on the mend! (fingers crossed) His ribs are now covered!!!!! He needs some fat and muscle to fill in between his spine and the top of his ribs, and the top of his bum. But he is on the mend  I am thinking about starting some light lounging to start to build some muscle up (yes/no???) I have been giving him cookies, he has been eating them with no problems!! I have not been brave enough to try grain? I was thinking about starting and giving him a hand full? Just to see if he can do it???


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## beccachow (Nov 8, 2008)

Yeah, enough time has passed. But LOTS of water...make a soup. And be sure to let the pellets absorb to where they no longer even remotely resemble a pellet. Tiny amounts, with the rocks in the bottom to keep him from bolting his food.

So glad he is better! Buddy only chokes about once per year.


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