# Which one?



## motdaugrnds

If you had an opportunity to get a brand new computer, would you choose a desktop or laptop? Which type (Windows, Linux, etc.)? Please state why you would make such a choice and share your experiences.


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## arabian knight

I would stick with my iMacs. Band-new, wow that would be fantastic, and last years and years.


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## Murby

motdaugrnds said:


> If you had an opportunity to get a brand new computer, would you choose a desktop or laptop? Which type (Windows, Linux, etc.)? Please state why you would make such a choice and share your experiences.


First, I would never buy a brand new computer.. its a waste of money and you don't get what you're paying for.. 

I build my own computers from ebay and craigslist parts.. Its very easy to do and you end up with twice the machine at less than half the cost. (or the same machine at 1/4 the cost  )

Box store computers are built with the cheapest components they can get to work.. They advertise things that are not important as if they are (like hard drive size, memory, sound etc).. 

I have a CoreI5-2500K processor with a GeForce GTX960 and 8 gigs of ram. I built it for $300 including the new case with the really cool looking but totally useless led lights.

I've never liked Macs.. I don't like the way they're set up and I don't like the fact that Apple tends to make all their stuff only work with their stuff.

Windows 8.1 Pro running 64 bit hardware is really fast. I run autocad design software and it really taxes computers hard.. makes them work when rendering motion or life like drawings. 

Its easy to upgrade PC's.. just rip out the components you don't want and replace them with the latest hardware.. you don't even have to change the case if you don't want. 

I know a few people who have Macs and they say they love them.. although I could never figure out why.


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## jwal10

A lot depends on what you need to do with it. I love my Chromebook. I would never have a desk top again. This little Chromebook goes everywhere....James


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## HermitJohn

First choice is a retired corporate desktop if I can find one reasonably modern for cheap with free shipping. Used to be some like that but anymore they are getting more rare. Or they have crazy shipping cost. 

Second choice a laptop connected to a desktop monitor and keyboard and mouse. They ship cheap and you can find cheap ones that work but have cracked or faulty screen. Just remove the damaged lid/screen if its in way. 

I always pick Puppy Linux and install my preferred version of it. Though if it comes with win7 or such, thats fine, leave that on its own partition for occasional off line use with tax software. Would not mess with win10 as its built as pure spyware.


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## Nevada

It would be a larger screen (15") laptop running Windows 10. I would get one with at least 4GB memory and a generous SSD (no less than 250GB) instead of a hard drive. Processor generation isn't that big of a deal to me because I don't run processor-intensive applications, but I would insist on at least a 2-core processor that can handle 64-bit software. Likewise, graphics adapter isn't a big deal to me, since I don't run graphic-intensive applications.

Laptops have become a great bargain over desktops, since they include a monitor. They are also portable, use very little power and are getting easier to work on.

Despite my work with Linux servers I still prefer a Windows workstation. Linux graphical environments aren't as mature as Windows products. That's not surprising, since Linux developers are spreading their community programming resources over perhaps 50 different distros. Windows is the way to go, at least for now.


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## motdaugrnds

That all helps. Thanks everyone.


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## jcthomas07

I second the Chromebook. Absolutely love my Acer C720


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## painterswife

This might be an option, if you have a monitor and keyboard/mouse already. http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...3722001&cm_re=kangaroo-_-83-722-001-_-Product

I have one and it works very well. It is a basic computer. Not a lot of storage but you can add a portable drive or flash card. The price can't be beat.


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## HermitJohn

painterswife said:


> This might be an option, if you have a monitor and keyboard/mouse already. http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...3722001&cm_re=kangaroo-_-83-722-001-_-Product
> 
> I have one and it works very well. It is a basic computer. Not a lot of storage but you can add a portable drive or flash card. The price can't be beat.


Looked at website and...



> The most portable mobile desktop you have ever seen. It's truly the most versatile, sexiest computer. Ever.


Dont know if I could handle the "most versatile, *sexiest* compter. Ever."


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## HermitJohn

motdaugrnds said:


> If you had an opportunity to get a brand new computer, would you choose a desktop or laptop? Which type (Windows, Linux, etc.)? Please state why you would make such a choice and share your experiences.


Seriously its all about how you want to use it, and what you want to use it for. If you NEED to run a particular specific piece of software, then it has to be capable of that, meaning powerful enough and a compatible operating system.

If you just need to do usual day to day home computer stuff, email, surfing, etc. Then you dont need the latest greatest. My computer is one of the last XP generation. Now considered outdated. Came with copy of XP on it. I didnt even realize it was two core processor for some time, since XP was 32bit that came with it. Anyway I restricted XP to a relatively small partition on hard drive, installed Puppy Linux for day to day use and it still easily meets my needs. Since it is two core processor, I can run latest 64bit version of Puppy on it if I so desire. It doesnt have memory enough for newer versions of windows and like say win10 was written as spyware from getgo. So if you get a win10 computer, be aware anything you do on it is shared with Microshafter with your full permission since using their system gives them permission according to terms of service. Unless you can figure ways to block the sharing, there are websites devoted to such, but its lot work and you are never truly sure you succeeded.

Now I will point out last spring on my computer, new tax software would no longer work with XP, it now required minimum of VISTA. So think hard what you may actually need to run on your computer. I was able to get my tax software to run under Puppy Linux using WINE (you can think of it as a windows emulator for linux, though it really is more a translator program than an emulator) but required lot of tinkering and experimenting to get it functional. Some windows software can be made to run with WINE, some cant. I didnt want to upgrade my computer JUST to run one stupid program once a year, OFFLINE, so worth little time and effort on my part.

I only get newer used computer when my computer no longer does what I need it to do day to day. Usually means when motherboard is fried and it wont function and not worth repairing. I once had a win95 laptop. I found it useful far longer than most people would, used it until the day the screen got so faded, couldnt read it. At that point yea, could plugged it into a desktop monitor, but wasnt worth it, too slow and antiquated and no longer portable.


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## Nevada

painterswife said:


> This might be an option, if you have a monitor and keyboard/mouse already. http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...3722001&cm_re=kangaroo-_-83-722-001-_-Product
> 
> I have one and it works very well. It is a basic computer. Not a lot of storage but you can add a portable drive or flash card. The price can't be beat.


2GB memory and only 32GB SSD storage? I don't know what I would do with it. As I said above, I would insist on at least 4GB memory and a 250GB SSD.


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## arabian knight

That is not what I would want around unless it is a entry level for some small kids to play with. Non Upgradeable memory, so no getting any more RAM or putting in a larger SSD. Both are soldered in place.
This is just one of the reviews for that machine.


> Cons: *-no in built fan. PC easily gets hot and throttle.*
> -2 gigs of ram which is common for mini pcs and netbooks these days. it's not adequate for multitasking
> *-The processor is meant for smartphone and tablet hence the performance is worse than a weak entry level laptop with a Pentium cpu*.


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## Nevada

arabian knight said:


> That is not what I would want around unless it is a entry level for some small kids to play with. Non Upgradeable memory, so no getting any more RAM or putting in a larger SSD. Both are soldered in place.
> This is just one of the reviews for that machine.


Yes, it has the specifications of an entry-level tablet, not a comprehensive computer workstation. It might be okay as a traveling device just for checking email and Facebook on the road, but even then I would want to install Android instead of Windows to save memory & SSD space.

As I said, I would have no use for it.


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## HermitJohn

I wouldnt want to try to run win10 with 2gb memory. But it would be fine for Puppy Linux. Thing is, you can get a used laptop with dual core processor and max of 2gb memory for $25 shipped on ebay. Yes it takes some searching and luck for one with good screen. For $100 you should be able to get something much more powerful on used laptop market.


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## Nevada

HermitJohn said:


> I wouldnt want to try to run win10 with 2gb memory. But it would be fine for Puppy Linux.


Puppy is more similar to Android than you might think. Both Puppy & Android use the Linux kernel. Kids get used to Android pretty quickly. It's fine for email, Facebook, and web browsing.


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## HermitJohn

arabian knight said:


> That is not what I would want around unless it is a entry level for some small kids to play with. Non Upgradeable memory, so no getting any more RAM or putting in a larger SSD. Both are soldered in place.
> This is just one of the reviews for that machine.


Its purely a matter of what the user ACTUALLY needs, not having the latest greatest most powerful computer available to brag to their friends. 

Seriously for light surfing and email, you dont really even need anywhere close to computing power available in your cell phone. Men went to the moon on less computing power.

Now if you are into gaming or have to run specific software for a job, then yea you need to go find something that works for those needs. 

The thing is today, people feel locked into getting latest greatest bloated windows operating system and IT requires lot of hardware power/memory. Skip the windows marketing scam and you dont need near the hardware. I do fine with XP era computer that can run latest greatest version of Puppy Linux. 2gb ram is fine for Puppy, it could do ok on less.

Dont like linux, go Android. You have to be careful of hardware you pick due to driver availability, but there are versions of Android that will install and run on x86 computer.


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## Heritagefarm

Nothing but great experiences with my macs, and I'm on my 4th one. I enjoy their streamlined, futuristic styling, which you can also get on a Windows lappie as well. I don't like using machines that jar my eye when I use them. With Retina, you basically can't see the pixels unless you use a magnifying glass. The OS is superb and almost never crashes. They can also be extremely fast. My MacBook Pro can open photoshop and other behemoth programs in about 6 seconds, tops. But these machines are often bored just surfing the web, so you can set up background processes such as data mining and harddrive farming to make you extra cash if you have the brand with, extra space and know how.


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## arabian knight

HermitJohn said:


> Its purely a matter of what the user ACTUALLY needs, not having the latest greatest most powerful computer available to brag to their friends.
> 
> Seriously for light surfing and email, you dont really even need anywhere close to computing power available in your cell phone.


That is why I like my iPad for doing those small things, besides I like playing games on it like Cookie Crush and such, and a iPad is great for that.
Then for the main use of a computer I use buy iMac. LOL


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## painterswife

Some of the responses have me chuckling. You don't know what the computer is needed for and you have not used it. If you have everything in the cloud and you are don't need to install programs it works great.

I build all my own personal computers and servers. This was a test for a client PC and it works wonderfully. It is a smart phone that you can hook up to any hdmi TV or monitor.


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## motdaugrnds

Well, I'm a bit confused as to what I would need. I never do "business" or "banking" stuff on the computer of any significance...PayPal is about it. 

The only thing I actually use this PC for is a few forums to visit, my website building, Paint Shop Pro (a great graphics program), surfing the web for information, email with my ISP and playing two games I enjoy (one being Armies of Gielinor and the other RuneScape) both high in models/graphics. Oh I enjoy YouTube videos too for both education and fun. (I would like to be able to watch a full movie...the classics...as my TV only has a 6" ...yes inch...screen.)

Now exactly how much of what I would need on a PC for the above is beyond me. I cannot even guess.


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## Heritagefarm

I think you could get by on roughly 2GB RAM, at least 2 GHz processor, and maybe 64 GB harddrive depending on how many documents you have.


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## HermitJohn

I am not familiar with the games. Are they online or are they software games you run on your computer. There are linux graphics programs and they will be free, but they are not going to be Paint Shop Pro, and I have no idea if Paint Shop Pro would run under WINE. So think you are answering your own questions. 

Nearly any modern internet capable device can do email and light surfing. But if you want this particular version of Paint Shop Pro and the games to run natively, you need a computer with an operating system that supports them. Be aware just cause its windows doesnt mean your software will run, it has to be a version of windows that they are designed to run on. Just like last spring for me the new tax software to do 2015 taxes would no longer run on winXP, though the same company's tax software for 2014 would run. Well software for older versions of windows doesnt necessarily run on newer versions of windows. Sometimes it will, but not necessarily.

Just saying unless the software you want to run specifically says it runs on so and so operating system, it may not. Also to install it on a new computer, you will need the original software cd and the key that unlocks it indicating you bought it. It has to be installed, you cant just copy it over from your current hard drive. Not needed if its free software of course.


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## arabian knight

Heritagefarm said:


> I think you could get by on roughly 2GB RAM, at least 2 GHz processor, and maybe 64 GB harddrive depending on how many documents you have.


(1.44 GHz) is what that has that was shown in the link. Cheap, yes it is, but........


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## Heritagefarm

arabian knight said:


> (1.44 GHz) is what that has that was shown in the link. Cheap, yes it is, but........


I think that's not terrible if you don't tax it too much. It's the same power as an iPad processor, but the iPad also has a very lightweight OS and SSD harddrive.


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## Bellyman

Murby said:


> First, I would never buy a brand new computer.. its a waste of money and you don't get what you're paying for..
> 
> I build my own computers from ebay and craigslist parts.. Its very easy to do and you end up with twice the machine at less than half the cost. (or the same machine at 1/4 the cost  )
> 
> Box store computers are built with the cheapest components they can get to work.. They advertise things that are not important as if they are (like hard drive size, memory, sound etc)..
> 
> I have a CoreI5-2500K processor with a GeForce GTX960 and 8 gigs of ram. I built it for $300 including the new case with the really cool looking but totally useless led lights.
> 
> I've never liked Macs.. I don't like the way they're set up and I don't like the fact that Apple tends to make all their stuff only work with their stuff.
> 
> Windows 8.1 Pro running 64 bit hardware is really fast. I run autocad design software and it really taxes computers hard.. makes them work when rendering motion or life like drawings.
> 
> Its easy to upgrade PC's.. just rip out the components you don't want and replace them with the latest hardware.. you don't even have to change the case if you don't want.
> 
> I know a few people who have Macs and they say they love them.. although I could never figure out why.


I would very much like to have a new computer. And a desktop is my preferred choice. I am using a laptop right now and it's really not a good fit. It's a cheap AMD A8 processor that's highly overworked, a keyboard that's worn out (literally, I can't read about half the keys anymore), and the screen real estate just doesn't work all that well for what I need it to do (not high enough resolution and even with an extra monitor, it's still not giving me what I need.

I would love to build my own computer. But I'll tell you where I get bogged down - the motherboard. There are SO many choices out there that I quickly get overwhelmed. I'm a pretty big fan of Intel processors and I find it a lot easier to narrow down my choices there. And since most of what I need on that screen real estate isn't typically a lot of fast moving video, the built in graphics would probably do what I'd like pretty reasonably even in very high definition (usually large spreadsheets, sometimes multiple, sometimes 3 or 4 word processing applications at a time, often at least two web browser pages, usually a few other specialized programs running also, but life is so much easier if I can see them all at a glance rather than having to minimize / maximize / minimize / maximize, etc. 

I do have to run some Windows programs but I do not want Win10. Honestly, I'd like to try running Linux, perhaps with Wine, to see if I can do what I need to do as far as MS programming, without Windows. If I feel like I need to add Win 7, I could do that, but I'd like to try it without.

Anyway, if you have suggestions on a MB setup or even how to figure out what a good choice would be, I'm interested.

Thanks!


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## HermitJohn

Bellyman said:


> I would very much like to have a new computer. And a desktop is my preferred choice. I am using a laptop right now and it's really not a good fit. It's a cheap AMD A8 processor that's highly overworked, a keyboard that's worn out (literally, I can't read about half the keys anymore), and the screen real estate just doesn't work all that well for what I need it to do (not high enough resolution and even with an extra monitor, it's still not giving me what I need.
> 
> I would love to build my own computer. But I'll tell you where I get bogged down - the motherboard. There are SO many choices out there that I quickly get overwhelmed. I'm a pretty big fan of Intel processors and I find it a lot easier to narrow down my choices there. And since most of what I need on that screen real estate isn't typically a lot of fast moving video, the built in graphics would probably do what I'd like pretty reasonably even in very high definition (usually large spreadsheets, sometimes multiple, sometimes 3 or 4 word processing applications at a time, often at least two web browser pages, usually a few other specialized programs running also, but life is so much easier if I can see them all at a glance rather than having to minimize / maximize / minimize / maximize, etc.
> 
> I do have to run some Windows programs but I do not want Win10. Honestly, I'd like to try running Linux, perhaps with Wine, to see if I can do what I need to do as far as MS programming, without Windows. If I feel like I need to add Win 7, I could do that, but I'd like to try it without.
> 
> Anyway, if you have suggestions on a MB setup or even how to figure out what a good choice would be, I'm interested.
> 
> Thanks!


There are other ways to do this. If you have a copy of windows, you can run linux and then install windows as a "virtual" operating system under linux. This is especially way to go if you want to run an older operating system that doesnt support newer hardware. So if you wanted you could run say win98 as virtual system on linux or win10! Or win10 on linux. Or linux on win10. you need an installable copy of whatever system you want to run virtually though. So if you want to run win10 virtually on linux system, you need an installable copy of win10.

There is also CrossOver which is a commercial translator like WINE but commercially supported (it costs MONEY). Not all the tinkering and experimenting necessary with WINE. WINE is fine, but Crossover can be quicker.

If you need to run a particular piece software, still easiest to get hardware and operating system that runs it natively. Anyway here is link to four ways to run windows software on linux...

http://www.howtogeek.com/133515/4-ways-to-run-windows-software-on-linux/

I used to have a link to a company that sold NEW generic desktop computers, any configuration you want. Could buy them with no operating system installed or you could buy them with windows of your choice. Elderly friend decade back was interested, so we ordered him one, cheapest one that was complete minus any operating system. I installed Puppy Linux on it for him. He was happy. He just used it to surf and email, so didnt matter whether he could run Microshaft software or not. Plus he could consult me on any Puppy questions.

I probably can find link if somebody is seriously interested, been long time though. May not even still be in buisiness??? At time it was cheapest new complete shipped desktop I found. And you could choose options to have it from super cheap barebones to very elaborate and powerful with all options, choice of motherboards, etc.


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## Shin

It really does depend on what you'd use it for.. if it's just small stuff, like email, a laptop can be more convenient. You can hook up a monitor, mouse, and keyboard to a laptop if the small size of any of its parts bothers you too.

I always build my own computers, because I get more out of them than if I bought a prefab. 

I often recommend to folks who aren't at a place where they will build their own.. if they are not trying out before buying a particular machine, which can be helpful, to buy one it's easy to return, so if they don't like it, do in fact send it back and try another.

Pay attention to those return dates and whether there's free return shipping/restocking fees and such.

Right now, the latest thing is 4K monitors. My computer however will need a new video card before it can fully use one of those. Thankfully I have no problem taking one out and putting a new one in. 

Since I put my own together, I have certain advantages -- a whisper quiet energy efficient power supply and video card, as well as venting fans, so the computer can't be heard when turned on. This is quite nice. 

If you're buying a motherboard, read the reviews thoroughly, and make sure it's compatible with your chosen CPU and the right size to fit your case. The motherboard manufacturer will also have recommended memory for it in its online manual. Part of the fun of building a new computer is making lists of possible components and pruning them down.


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## Bellyman

HermitJohn said:


> There are other ways to do this. If you have a copy of windows, you can run linux and then install windows as a "virtual" operating system under windows. This is especially way to go if you want to run an older operating system that doesnt support newer hardware.
> 
> There is also CrossOver which is a commercial translator like WINE but commercially supported (it costs MONEY). Not all the tinkering and experimenting necessary with WINE. WINE is fine, but Crossover can be quicker.
> 
> If you need to run a particular piece software, still easiest to get hardware and operating system that runs it natively. Anyway here is link to four ways to run windows software on linux...
> 
> http://www.howtogeek.com/133515/4-ways-to-run-windows-software-on-linux/
> 
> I used to have a link to a company that sold NEW generic desktop computers, any configuration you want. Could buy them with no operating system installed or you could buy them with windows of your choice. Elderly friend decade back was interested, so we ordered him one, cheapest one that was complete minus any operating system. I installed Puppy Linux on it for him. He was happy. He just used it to surf and email, so didnt matter whether he could run Microshaft software or not. Plus he could consult me on any Puppy questions.
> 
> I probably can find link if somebody is seriously interested, been long time though. May not even still be in buisiness??? At time it was cheapest new complete shipped desktop I found. And you could choose options to have it from super cheap barebones to very elaborate and powerful with all options, choice of motherboards, etc.


Thanks, Crossover is certainly a possibility. I'm not opposed to paying for something that I use. I would just like to have control over it. I'm already frustrated with the nearly forced interconnectivity that comes with MS products. 

I have a bunch of old hardware, some of it ancient by XP standards, some of which was made in the 1990s. What I would like is some new hardware that will be able to keep up for the next 5 - 7 years without feeling like it's completely overwhelmed 3 months after I buy it... like the current laptop. (It's not a terrible laptop, just totally inadequate for what I want it to do.) I don't need a high resolution virtual reality machine. But I need more than just the cheapest set of silicon wafers that will put a few pixels on a screen and call it a computer. If that's all I needed, the current laptop would be awesome.

My needs for MS products are chiefly having to run MS Word. (No, Open Office and the like won't cut it, I've been down that road. It really does have to be MS Word.) Most of the other stuff that I do really does not care what operating system I'm using. And Word isn't particularly resource intense even though I often need several different docs open (and in sight really helps) at one time.

Didn't mean to hijack the thread...


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## Shin

One suggestion for what it's worth on motherboard setup I have is this. It's worthwhile to have a video cable to hook it up to the monitor that is not an HDMI cable.

You can have an HDMI cable too of course, and plan on using it normally but when setting up the motherboard initially may well absolutely need something else, as some motherboards will show a blank screen instead of their setup information when hooked up to a monitor via HDMI. This would be very discouraging for anyone let alone a first time builder.


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## HermitJohn

Bellyman said:


> Thanks, Crossover is certainly a possibility. I'm not opposed to paying for something that I use. I would just like to have control over it. I'm already frustrated with the nearly forced interconnectivity that comes with MS products.
> 
> I have a bunch of old hardware, some of it ancient by XP standards, some of which was made in the 1990s. What I would like is some new hardware that will be able to keep up for the next 5 - 7 years without feeling like it's completely overwhelmed 3 months after I buy it... like the current laptop. (It's not a terrible laptop, just totally inadequate for what I want it to do.) I don't need a high resolution virtual reality machine. But I need more than just the cheapest set of silicon wafers that will put a few pixels on a screen and call it a computer. If that's all I needed, the current laptop would be awesome.
> 
> My needs for MS products are chiefly having to run MS Word. (No, Open Office and the like won't cut it, I've been down that road. It really does have to be MS Word.) Most of the other stuff that I do really does not care what operating system I'm using. And Word isn't particularly resource intense even though I often need several different docs open (and in sight really helps) at one time.
> 
> Didn't mean to hijack the thread...


I didnt do more than quick google, but you can at least install some MS Office versions under WINE. http://www.bleepingcomputer.com/for...ll-microsoft-office-2010-in-ubuntu-with-wine/

This link was for MS Office 2010. Here is link that says somebody got MS Office 2013 working in WINE. https://www.reddit.com/r/linux/comments/3ukrfh/microsoft_office_2013_on_linux_using_playonlinux/


http://www.wine-reviews.net/2015/11/microsoft-office-2013-on-linux-with.html


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## motdaugrnds

HermitJohn, that is welcome information. Thank you. Both the games I enjoy (Armies of Gielienor and RuneScape) are on-line games. The graphics program (Paint Shop Pro) was purchased on a disc for the computer I still have which is Windows (now XP). These and the YouTube videos I learn (and enjoy) are about all I do on a computer. I do, however, take a lot of pictures on this homestead and put them on my website; so this requires quite a bit of memory I think.

So is it a Linux I should get? Laptop? Desktop?


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## Heritagefarm

motdaugrnds said:


> HermitJohn, that is welcome information. Thank you. Both the games I enjoy (Armies of Gielienor and RuneScape) are on-line games. The graphics program (Paint Shop Pro) was purchased on a disc for the computer I still have which is Windows (now XP). These and the YouTube videos I learn (and enjoy) are about all I do on a computer. I do, however, take a lot of pictures on this homestead and put them on my website; so this requires quite a bit of memory I think.
> 
> So is it a Linux I should get? Laptop? Desktop?


Linux is your operating system and I reccomend against using it unless you're an advanced user. Not many programs work with Linux and you need a specific reason to use it, other than hating Windows and/or Apple OSX. You just need a computer that will get your job done - a cheap Walmart computer will probably do you just fine.


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## HermitJohn

Heritagefarm said:


> Linux is your operating system and I reccomend against using it unless you're an advanced user. Not many programs work with Linux and you need a specific reason to use it, other than hating Windows and/or Apple OSX. You just need a computer that will get your job done - a cheap Walmart computer will probably do you just fine.


I bet more windows programs run on linux, than linux programs run on windows!

Seriously, there are linux programs written for linux that do same things that windows programs written for windows do. And they tend to be FREE. If you want to use linux, try these native linux programs first to see if they meet your needs. 

And some windows programs (not all by any means) will run on linux using WINE or Crossover.

By way cheapest NEW desktop at Walmart starts around $250. I dont think best buy in computers is to be found at Walmart. I saw a refurb desktop on ebay with win10, 3ghz four core processor, 8gb ram, and 1TB hard drive for half that. And I wasnt looking very hard, that was just first thing popped up in a quick search. And frankly the average home user doesnt begin to need that kind of computing power. Mostly just need the hardware to run the extremely bloated operating system and spyware, which if you think about it is pretty stupid, when what you want to actually accomplish doesnt need anywhere near that kind computing power.


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## Heritagefarm

HermitJohn said:


> I bet more windows programs run on linux, than linux programs run on windows!
> 
> Seriously, there are linux programs written for linux that do same things that windows programs written for windows do. And they tend to be FREE. If you want to use linux, try these native linux programs first to see if they meet your needs.
> 
> And some windows programs (not all by any means) will run on linux using WINE or Crossover.
> 
> By way cheapest NEW desktop at Walmart starts around $250. I dont think best buy in computers is to be found at Walmart. I saw a refurb desktop on ebay with win10, 3ghz four core processor, 8gb ram, and 1TB hard drive for half that. And I wasnt looking very hard, that was just first thing popped up in a quick search. And frankly the average home user doesnt begin to need that kind of computing power. Mostly just need the hardware to run the extremely bloated operating system and spyware, which if you think about it is pretty stupid, when what you want to actually accomplish doesnt need anywhere near that kind computing power.


Yes, true. My Windows machine with 4GB ram and Windows 7 ran only as fast as my 500MB RAM and Window ME. They just keep adding more junk to Windows, which is why I prefer OSX.

My point was that the average user is going to have a lot harder time finding Linux programs, re-learning how to use them vs. the Windows programs they're used to, and installing Linux in the first place is challenging if you aren't used to it.


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## HermitJohn

Heritagefarm said:


> Yes, true. My Windows machine with 4GB ram and Windows 7 ran only as fast as my 500MB RAM and Window ME. They just keep adding more junk to Windows, which is why I prefer OSX.
> 
> My point was that the average user is going to have a lot harder time finding Linux programs, re-learning how to use them vs. the Windows programs they're used to, and installing Linux in the first place is challenging if you aren't used to it.


You can now get live linux cd or in some cases dvd and you just set computer to boot first from the cd/dvd drive. Or if your computer doesnt have such, you can boot from a usb drive.

Now some are demonstration only and you cant save settings. Puppy and some others allow you to save your settings and such to your windows partition or to a usb storage drive.

You can usually find such live cd with software already included. But anymore many linux distributions will have one or another package managers that will download and install software packages including dependencies. Well supposed to. I have still had to occasionally track down some missing dependency and install it manually. Trick is to get the right version that the software needs.


----------



## HermitJohn

motdaugrnds said:


> HermitJohn, that is welcome information. Thank you. Both the games I enjoy (Armies of Gielienor and RuneScape) are on-line games. The graphics program (Paint Shop Pro) was purchased on a disc for the computer I still have which is Windows (now XP). These and the YouTube videos I learn (and enjoy) are about all I do on a computer. I do, however, take a lot of pictures on this homestead and put them on my website; so this requires quite a bit of memory I think.
> 
> So is it a Linux I should get? Laptop? Desktop?


Ok then, you dont need a special computer for your games, since obviously just need a browser that can access the game website.

Actually if your current XP computer still works ok and does what you want, keep it. Upgrade browser to whatever latest Firefox or Pale Moon browser that still runs on it. Voila, done. Dont be scared off by dire warnings that if you dont have the latest greatest computer with the latest greatest operating system, you will die of scurvy tomorrow.

And if you are worried about going online with XP, you can just boot with a current live linux cd without installing anything (Puppy Linux works well on XP era computers) and surf with it. Use XP to run your paint shop pro software. 

I dont know specs of your XP computer, but suspect its likely a single core processor. So you would want a 32bit version of live linux cd. Even if you have a dual core processor, you can still run 32 bit version, though in that case you could also run a 64bit version. I found the 64bit slightly faster with same memory on my dual core computer. Some linux is pretty bloated anymore. There are other smaller distributions like Puppy, but I have used Puppy for so long thats what I am most familiar with. You can download the iso file and burn your own Puppy live cd for FREE or there are couple places you can buy an already burned cd for less than $5 shipped. See the live cds on ebay too, though sometimes the ebay cds arent the latest version of Puppy. 

What is exact version Paint Shop Pro that you are running. I am finding mixed results when I searched to see if version 7 still runs on win10. Some said it did, some said it didnt, some said it runs but everything doesnt work anymore. Some said it worked at first then popup asking which storage file you want to use and whatever you pick, it no longer responds.

By way I looked at WINEHQ and looks like PaintShopPro version 7.x, 8.x, and 9.x have had some success running using WINE. I hesitate to recommend WINE to any linux newbie. It is one of those things that usually takes some tinkering under the hood to make things work, sometimes a LOT of tinkering. Last spring getting my tax software to run on Puppy Linux using WINE, took lot experimenting since nobody had posted exact combination to use in WINE for my particular version of this tax software, just ran across couple mentions of people that got older versions of this tax software to run and what they used. What worked for them didnt work for me and version of the tax software I was using. But after lot experimenting installing various versions of WINE and various versions of IE that the tax software required be present, I got it functional. And yea after the time I spent, might been easier to just bought a used computer with win7 or newer off ebay that would run the tax software without tinkering. Just really bugged me to have to upgrade my computer just cause of one piece of software I run once a year. Its the ONLY thing I keep windows around for, since there is no linux version of tax software. I am not trusting enough to use the online tax preparation. That just seems to be asking for trouble.

And yes like Heritage said, LINUX is an operating system as is WINDOWS. It is not a brand of computer. And there are different linux distributions. Usually if they use the same kernel, they have very similar abilities. Though the look of the desktop maybe different and they may come with different software included.


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## Bellyman

Heritagefarm said:


> Yes, true. My Windows machine with 4GB ram and Windows 7 ran only as fast as my 500MB RAM and Window ME. They just keep adding more junk to Windows, which is why I prefer OSX.
> 
> My point was that* the average user is going to have a lot harder time finding Linux programs, re-learning how to use them vs. the Windows programs they're used to, and installing Linux in the first place is challenging if you aren't used to it*.



I'm just curious, have you tried to do any of that lately? Just the last year or so has brought about quite a bit of advancement in the ease of use and ease of installation for some Linux operating systems. 

Installing and using a Ubuntu distro from 2012 or so, I would agree with your statement. Installing the latest version of Mint / Cinnamon, though, might be a little different story. 

Depending upon what a person actually does with their computer, a Linux distro might work very, very well, maybe better than most think.


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## HermitJohn

I should mention far as Puppy goes, there are official releases, there are community releases and variations.

I have had very good experience with Slacko, think last version is like 6.3. Its based on Slackware Linux. Just super stable. And with Tahrpup, think last version is 6.0.5 Its based on Ubuntu and can use the Ubuntu repositories to add software which is kinda nice. I also found it very stable and like it much better than any actual Ubuntu distribution. Havent tried Quirky but havent had bad puppy in ages though some of early ones werent always all that stable. And if you look on Puppy Linux forum there are links and downloads of many community made variations, many for special purposes. Some for specific computers. Some minimalist with lot stuff stripped out. Some maximalist, with every piece linux software known to mankind, well maybe not every piece, but quite large assortment. 

You actually want every piece software possible there is Debian Linux, and multiple dvds to install. It does seriously offer everything and the kitchen sink.


----------



## no really

Heritagefarm said:


> Nothing but great experiences with my macs, and I'm on my 4th one. I enjoy their streamlined, futuristic styling, which you can also get on a Windows lappie as well. I don't like using machines that jar my eye when I use them. With Retina, you basically can't see the pixels unless you use a magnifying glass. The OS is superb and almost never crashes. They can also be extremely fast. My MacBook Pro can open photoshop and other behemoth programs in about 6 seconds, tops. But these machines are often bored just surfing the web, so you can set up background processes such as data mining and harddrive farming to make you extra cash if you have the brand with, extra space and know how.


Thanks for the review, I am in the process of looking for a new laptop. My new one has Windows 8 and I dislike it. I will probably go Mac, you've convinced me.


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## Nevada

no really said:


> Thanks for the review, I am in the process of looking for a new laptop. My new one has Windows 8 and I dislike it. I will probably go Mac, you've convinced me.


If you want to open applications faster I don't think you'll get much performance boost from alternative operating systems. To open applications fast get a solid state drive (SSD) in place of a hard drive. I open MS Word in under 3 seconds, no exaggeration at all.


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## Heritagefarm

Nevada said:


> If you want to open applications faster I don't think you'll get much performance boost from alternative operating systems. To open applications fast get a solid state drive (SSD) in place of a hard drive. I open MS Word in under 3 seconds, no exaggeration at all.


Ditto, but I think the processor should be good too. For example, my iPad has SSD, but takes about 10 seconds to open Word, likely due to only having a 1.5 GHz processor.


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## Nevada

Heritagefarm said:


> Ditto, but I think the processor should be good too. For example, my iPad has SSD, but takes about 10 seconds to open Word, likely due to only having a 1.5 GHz processor.


My processor is modest. It's an Intel Core 2 Duo, 2.8 GHz. Those were top processors 5 or 6 years ago, but no competition for today's i3, i5 & i7 processors. But I get more than acceptable performance from it.

I would recommend against a single core processor today, but any multi core processor capable of running 64-but software should be ok.


----------



## Heritagefarm

Nevada said:


> My processor is modest. It's an Intel Core 2 Duo, 2.8 GHz. Those were top processors 5 or 6 years ago, but no competition for today's i3, i5 & i7 processors. But I get more than acceptable performance from it.
> 
> I would recommend against a single core processor today, but any multi core processor capable of running 64-but software should be ok.


Are the Ghz or the cores more important in determining speed and performance?


----------



## Nevada

Heritagefarm said:


> Are the Ghz or the cores more important in determining speed and performance?


That's not a simple as it used to be. Of course the number of cores is important, but GHz isn't as important as architecture. The best processors today are the i7, followed by i5, i3, and then the Core 2 series.


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## motdaugrnds

Golly I'm wishing I understood all that is being said in this thread. My mind just won't wrap around much of it.

To answer your question, John, I'm running the older version of Paint Shop Pro, Version 7.04 (a Jasc Software). And I used this program to take a pic of the system components of this PC to place here.

I'm hoping this computer will last a few more years yet have been concerned it won't be able to receive protective updates before long. And I've already received information that, if I update the Java thingy, the update will not only not function on this PC but will mess up programs I'm using with the outdated Java.  Thus, I'm feeling a bit confused and even anxious about how long I will still have a functional computer.


----------



## Bellyman

Nevada said:


> That's not a simple as it used to be. Of course the number of cores is important, but GHz isn't as important as architecture. The best processors today are the i7, followed by i5, i3, and then the Core 2 series.


The hard part for me is when I start comparing, I always seem to end up slowly talking myself into the best of the best of everything. It's hard for me to decide when it really is good enough. 

For a fairly basic computer that's being used for email, web browsing, messing with personal photos, that kind of thing, it doesn't take a top end i7. But I get to looking and think, some of those i3 processors are really fast and quite capable, plus, they aren't a big step up in price from a Core2. Hmmm. And then, I get to looking at the i5 processors and looking at the specs, go, Wow! Those things are awesome! And then... well, it doesn't seem like a very big step from an i5 to an i7 and that's like the flagship. 

And so, I've gone from Toyota Corolla to Ferrari 458 Spider in a flowing stream of logic that lands me in mega dollar land so I'm looking back to the beginning. Rinse, repeat.

How is the best way to figure out when enough really is enough and I won't be wishing I'd have just taken one more step up?


----------



## Heritagefarm

Bellyman said:


> The hard part for me is when I start comparing, I always seem to end up slowly talking myself into the best of the best of everything. It's hard for me to decide when it really is good enough.
> 
> For a fairly basic computer that's being used for email, web browsing, messing with personal photos, that kind of thing, it doesn't take a top end i7. But I get to looking and think, some of those i3 processors are really fast and quite capable, plus, they aren't a big step up in price from a Core2. Hmmm. And then, I get to looking at the i5 processors and looking at the specs, go, Wow! Those things are awesome! And then... well, it doesn't seem like a very big step from an i5 to an i7 and that's like the flagship.
> 
> And so, I've gone from Toyota Corolla to Ferrari 458 Spider in a flowing stream of logic that lands me in mega dollar land so I'm looking back to the beginning. Rinse, repeat.
> 
> How is the best way to figure out when enough really is enough and I won't be wishing I'd have just taken one more step up?


For surfing the web I use a "cheap" iPad attached to a keyboard case. Works like a charm and it can handle Word and Pages which is basically all I do.


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## Nevada

motdaugrnds said:


> Thus, I'm feeling a bit confused and even anxious about how long I will still have a functional computer.


From the specs you posted you're running a 2.6 GHz Pentium 4 processor, and only 1.2 GB memory. That cpu is a high-end single-core processor. You can run most any version of Windows with that processor, but you can't support 64-bit software or operating systems. You'll have to ask for 32-bit software & operating systems.

32-bit is ok for the time being, but the handwriting is on the wall. We're headed into a 64-bit computer world.

As was pointed out earlier by HermitJohn, the performance boost from 32-bit to 64-bit isn't a lot. Most benchmarks I've see put it at about 20% improvement. The bigger motivation to go to 64-bit is to have a lot more memory, since 32-bit is limited to 4 GB. I know heavy Photoshop users who need a lot more than 4 GB of memory. 32-bit software & operating systems should work fine for you for the next few years. Windows 7, 8, 8.1, and even 10 are all available in 32-bit versions.

But you need more memory. 1 GB just isn't enough to do much these days. No contemporary Windows version will run on 1 GB, and your motherboard might not take much more than that. In that case you'll really need to consider new hardware. Your processor & mainboard are obsolete. The rock-bottom priced mainboard & processor combinations are the core 2 duo, and are very inexpensive (priced as low as $20 for the combo).


----------



## Bellyman

Heritagefarm said:


> For surfing the web I use a "cheap" iPad attached to a keyboard case. Works like a charm and it can handle Word and Pages which is basically all I do.


I used to think I'd like one... until I got one. Really did not work nearly as well as I thought it would except for very light web browsing, which I really don't do that much of. It's not comfortable enough for me to want to do much typing on it, and I do a LOT of typing. I do a lot of things with multiple windows/programs running at once, too. 

For some people, a tablet is great. Kinda wish I was one of them sometimes cause it would sure make life easier. LOL!


----------



## HermitJohn

motdaugrnds said:


> Golly I'm wishing I understood all that is being said in this thread. My mind just won't wrap around much of it.
> 
> To answer your question, John, I'm running the older version of Paint Shop Pro, Version 7.04 (a Jasc Software). And I used this program to take a pic of the system components of this PC to place here.
> 
> I'm hoping this computer will last a few more years yet have been concerned it won't be able to receive protective updates before long. And I've already received information that, if I update the Java thingy, the update will not only not function on this PC but will mess up programs I'm using with the outdated Java.  Thus, I'm feeling a bit confused and even anxious about how long I will still have a functional computer.


What do you use Java for? Do you need it for your gaming? Having it installed if you dont need it, is somewhat of a security risk. Only some websites and apps require it. Some gaming sites require it so guessing thats why you have it installed. Though it used to just be automatically installed whether you ever used it or not. 

Like I said, if it were me, I would use your current winXP offline only to run your Paintshop program, then boot from a live linux cd to go online and surf. All you have to do is set your computer to try and boot from cdrom first. It will boot into whatever linux distribution you are using. Since you have single core processor, you would need a 32bit version of linux.

How do you connect to internet? I suspect either an ethernet cable to card in back of your computer or else via wifi to a wireless router. Not too many still use dialup and modem. But just cause there is a windows driver for your ethernet or wifi doesnt necessarily mean there is a linux driver. Usually is, but not necessarily so. Can use XP driver and and a translator called ndiswrapper or its like $5 to get a usb version wifi adapter that will work with the already included linux wifi driver. I have been using ndiswrapper and XP driver with wifi adapter on my computer. Usually third attempt is a charm to get it to connect. Once connected its fine. I did recently order $5 usb one off ebay that Puppy already has driver for so I wont need the clunky ndiswrapper. But its on slow boat from China so havent received it yet. Figured it would be nice if Puppy would just automagically connect rather than me forcing it to try three times... every time. I used to have a different usb one where Puppy had driver and would automatically connect, but it got to overheating and dropping connection fairly often. Cheap stuff sometimes doesnt last well.

Here is an example of Puppy 32bit live cd. http://www.ebay.com/itm/Puppy-Linux...423446?hash=item33b33c9296:g:9n0AAOSwh-1W4vca

Or like I said if you have burner software and broadband connection, you can download the file and burn it yourself for free.

Then when you shut down Puppy live cd first time, it will offer to make you a settings file on your XP partition. Its just a storage file. Then the live cd can store settings and any additional software you want to run in this file. The storage file can be deleted by either Puppy or Windows at any time you want it to go away.

I have been looking more on ebay just out of curiosity. It truly isnt that hard to get a used cheap computer newer than yours. Saw some complete ones with win7 or win8 that I think will go less than $50 shipped. You can get a functional laptop down around $25, but those tend to have been partially stripped where hard drive and caddy maybe missing. Either that or they are ancient. 

While I was looking I even bid on a laptop with 4gb ram and i7 processor but no hard drive or power supply. No hard drive means no operating system included. If I won, it would be like $12shipped. Being an i7 processor suspect it will get bid up some and I am in no danger of winning it. If I won it I would just use an external usb drive and run a late 64bit version of Puppy. Power supply (wall wart) for laptops anymore tend to be around $10, but you do have to check before bidding on something like this. Occasionally there will be laptop needing rare expensive power supply or one with funky connection that generic power supply wont have.


----------



## HermitJohn

Bellyman said:


> For some people, a tablet is great. Kinda wish I was one of them sometimes cause it would sure make life easier. LOL!


My ex has a desktop, a laptop, and a tablet. I dont think she has used her laptop or desktop in couple years. She LOVES that tablet. I sincerely hate them, seem lot clumsier than desktop or larger laptop. And my old eyes not liking tiny screen. Course I am not going anywhere so dont need portability.


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## HermitJohn

Nevada said:


> From the specs you posted you're running a 2.6 GHz Pentium 4 processor, and only 1.2 GB memory. That cpu is a high-end single-core processor. You can run most any version of Windows with that processor, but you can't support 64-bit software or operating systems. You'll have to ask for 32-bit software & operating systems.
> 
> 32-bit is ok for the time being, but the handwriting is on the wall. We're headed into a 64-bit computer world.
> 
> As was pointed out earlier by HermitJohn, the performance boost from 32-bit to 64-bit isn't a lot. Most benchmarks I've see put it at about 20% improvement. The bigger motivation to go to 64-bit is to have a lot more memory, since 32-bit is limited to 4 GB. I know heavy Photoshop users who need a lot more than 4 GB of memory. 32-bit software & operating systems should work fine for you for the next few years. Windows 7, 8, 8.1, and even 10 are all available in 32-bit versions.
> 
> But you need more memory. 1 GB just isn't enough to do much these days. No contemporary Windows version will run on 1 GB, and your motherboard might not take much more than that. In that case you'll really need to consider new hardware. Your processor & mainboard are obsolete. The rock-bottom priced mainboard & processor combinations are the core 2 duo, and are very inexpensive (priced as low as $20 for the combo).


I suspect she doesnt really need much of a computer. And from reading, not sure how old of a windows system she would need to run here Paintshop Pro 7.04. I ran across website discussing whether such would install and run on win10. For some it did and worked initially. Then something happened, whether some update or what, but it would stop functioning and just popup a screen wanting user to tell it location of a necessary storage file. You could tell it anything, but it wouldnt accept the answer. So in effect it was no longer functional. 

I did look and Paintshop Pro 7 will work on linux using WINE. It got rated between silver and platinum as to functionality. Think functionality depended how much somebody was willing to tinker with it. Getting any program running under WINE can require lot tinkering. Usually not worth it IMHO unless there is just no linux software alternative. There are several linux paint/graphics programs. Puppy comes with mtPaint that does most of what I need, though I am certainly not into extensively photoshopping stuff. But there is linux version of GIMP which rivals Photoshop. But if you are used to a particular program, its nuisance to have to learn ins and outs of a new one.


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## HermitJohn

Oh here is guy selling both 32bit and 64bit Slacko 6.3 together for $5. http://www.ebay.com/itm/SLACKO-6-3-...8c3705e&pid=100005&rk=4&rkt=6&sd=222050423446 Some are after a quick buck, but most sellers of linux cds are more interested in just making it easy and convenient. The idea is people can sell burned cd copies to recoup their expenses. They arent selling an operating system, they are selling bit convenience. So if you dont have a fast connection or are clueless how to burn a iso file into a bootable cd, then its cheap alternative. When i was on dialup, I used to buy them. On dialup even when Puppy was lot smaller size, still took like 15 hour to download it. So was worth couple bucks to me not to have to go through the pain of it. With even a slow broadband connection it shouldnt take over half hour to download the file.


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## motdaugrnds

I do appreciate the help all of you have given me. Understanding what type of PC I have and what I might need is difficult.

When I purchased this PC a few years ago I asked for extra memory and it was my understanding a larger memory card was put in at that time. I don't know why it didn't show up in that pic above. 

Here is a pic I took of my defrag which is showing more than 2GB. Isn't that memory?


----------



## Nevada

motdaugrnds said:


> I do appreciate the help all of you have given me. Understanding what type of PC I have and what I might need is difficult.
> 
> When I purchased this PC a few years ago I asked for extra memory and it was my understanding a larger memory card was put in at that time. I don't know why it didn't show up in that pic above.
> 
> Here is a pic I took of my defrag which is showing more than 2GB. Isn't that memory?


Your larger memory probably did show up. The thing is that memory needs were very different during the XP days. There was a time when 500 MB (1/2 GB) was plenty. You probably doubled that, which was great for XP.

There was also a time when 2 GB was plenty for Windows 7, but updates made it require more memory. You just can't get away with less than 4 GB of memory.

The image shows your hard drive space of 298 GB with 89.52 GB free. That's not memory, that's bulk storage space for operating system, applications, and user files. That's a good sized hard drive, even by today's standards. I recommend a SSD instead of a hard drive for performance, but a hard drive will do the job.


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## HermitJohn

I just dont keep up with the windows world that well. I found this article: http://www.howtogeek.com/244678/you-dont-need-a-product-key-to-install-and-use-windows-10/ 

Apparently M$, though they would like you to buy win10 activation, is happy enough to let you use it indefinitely unactivated, with only minor watermark and nag. I think their continuing decline as Google and Apple's stranglehold on smart phone and tablet market with fewer and fewer people buying new desktops and laptops, finally made an impression. They are pretty well forced to let you use it without paying upfront, just to keep some of their market share. Though their backdoor spyware built into it helps defray any costs.

Just saying if you really need to run windows and have a computer that it can run on, then there you go. There are still evaluation copies of win7 and win8 out there too, but they only work for 90 days. This might be answer to my problems with tax software into future. Just get super cheap computer that can handle it, install win10, only use it offline to run the tax software. If I remember, unlike XP, I think all later windows versions can be intalled to external usb drive. Though have to check on that to make sure. 

For my needs, dont even have to play games blocking it from phoning home with my personal info, cause it wont/cant ever go online. Yep, that would be easier than trying to make every new years tax software run using WINE.


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## arabian knight

The way I have been hearing things even on tech shows. Is that Wndows' IS the last one. There will be no more Windows 11 and Windows 12 etc. 
All future Updates will be just updating Windows 10. And there is a big update coming in the next few months for Windows 10. As THAT IS the future of MS and their OS going forward. 10 is it.
Very close to what Apple has been doing for the last 15 Years., They have stayed with OS X that long and just doing updates to that. 
But this fall Apple drops the OS X-- NAME-- to go with just *Mac OS*. And then updates or new versions of that. 
So Apple is dropping their Roman Numeral X, and Windows is not going any further then the Number 10. I think that is funny. LOL


----------



## Nevada

arabian knight said:


> The way I have been hearing things even on tech shows. Is that Wndows' IS the last one. There will be no more Windows 11 and Windows 12 etc.
> All future Updates will be just updating Windows 10. And there is a big update coming in the next few months for Windows 10. As THAT IS the future of MS and their OS going forward. 10 is it.


I don't see why it makes a difference. It's all in nomenclature. The operating system will still evolve, we'll just identify the version as the update version rather than the Windows version. Why is that a big deal?


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## Heritagefarm

Nevada said:


> I don't see why it makes a difference. It's all in nomenclature. The operating system will still evolve, we'll just identify the version as the update version rather than the Windows version. Why is that a big deal?


Well, it would seem odd if they both did it at the same time. Are they in cahoots? Apple and Microsoft are supposed to be mortal enemies.


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## Murby

You all might want to be careful when buying processors.. some of their benchmarks are pretty low.

Here's a couple of nice links to help you out.. you can look up your current processor or video card and then compare its benchmark to what processor you want to upgrade to.. that will give you an idea on how much faster your system will be.

For CPU's:
http://www.cpubenchmark.net/cpu_list.php

For Video Cards:
http://www.videocardbenchmark.net/gpu_list.php

Also, if you're currently running a 32 bit system, when you jump to 64 bit, you'll see much faster performance since the computer moves twice the information down the same bus.

As for motherboards.. If building a desktop, go with a full size ATX in something like a Gigabyte brand.. Make sure you get the correct type of RAM and buy as much of it as you can afford.

DO NOT try to skimp on the CPU and make up for it with a video card if you're into graphics like games. Video cards are only as powerful as the motherboard CPU allows them to be. A brand new, top of the line GeForce for $800 will still act like a $40 video card if you try hooking it up to an 8 year old processor.

I have a Core I5-2500K with a Geforce 960 and a boat load of ram.. I use Western Digital hard drives.. either the caviar blue or caviar green.. they're both about the same but the green is a bit more energy efficient.

My system boots up to the desktop in about 18 seconds and its ready to go.. I also run Windows 8.1 PRO.

One other thing you should do if you're on a window's computer.. and it doesn't matter if its 7,8, 10, or an XP machine. Go into your services.msc and disable all the garbage you don't use. For every service that is allowed to run, your computer slows down just a little bit. Disable 10 to 15 unused services and you'll think you have a new computer.. Yup.. its that big of a difference. You'll have to learn on your own which services you need, which are required, and which you can disable.. but things like "telephony", internet connection sharing, routing and remote access, smart card, remote registry, etc etc are almost never used by the average user.. Disable them and your system won't be devoting resources to that unused garbage. 

Also, learn how to manually keep your registry clean.. Unused registry entries clog things up and bloat your registry file. Bloated registries bog down computer performance.. cause conflicts, and generally muddy things up. 

Hope that helps,


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## Murby

Heritagefarm said:


> Well, it would seem odd if they both did it at the same time. Are they in cahoots? Apple and Microsoft are supposed to be mortal enemies.


Microsoft used to own part of Apple.. If I remember, Gates gave Jobs 150 million to keep him from closing his doors. (and probably to help alleviate some of the guilt from stealing Apples GUI ideas when both companies were young).

I'm pretty sure Microsoft sold its stake in Apple some time ago.. like around 9/11 or something.


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## motdaugrnds

Murby, you stated, "Also, learn how to manually keep your registry clean.. Unused registry entries clog things up and bloat your registry file. Bloated registries bog down computer performance.. cause conflicts, and generally muddy things up."

Can you give some detailed instruction as to how to clean the registry?


----------



## Murby

motdaugrnds said:


> Murby, you stated, "Also, learn how to manually keep your registry clean.. Unused registry entries clog things up and bloat your registry file. Bloated registries bog down computer performance.. cause conflicts, and generally muddy things up."
> 
> Can you give some detailed instruction as to how to clean the registry?


Not in a single post in an online forum. There's free registry cleaners available that do a good job.. the only down side is they have to be installed like any other program which adds more registry entries.. They do work however and adding one program to get rid of a half dozen others isn't such a bad trade off.

Just be sure to always make a back up copy in case you screw up and remove something important. You can always restore the registry from the back up.

Some things just can't be taught with a few lines of message texts..


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## motdaugrnds

I understand. Thanks


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## Heritagefarm

Murby said:


> Not in a single post in an online forum. There's free registry cleaners available that do a good job.. the only down side is they have to be installed like any other program which adds more registry entries.. They do work however and adding one program to get rid of a half dozen others isn't such a bad trade off.
> 
> Just be sure to always make a back up copy in case you screw up and remove something important. You can always restore the registry from the back up.
> 
> Some things just can't be taught with a few lines of message texts..


One more reason to like OSX or Linux - no registry.


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## Solar Geek

I have had many brand new laptops and desktops due to work- prefer the keyboards on desktops immensely. Never met one I didn't like.

I have a fancy ASUS laptop DD #1 picked for me as I am a heavy user. I hate it. 
Keyboard is flat and a nightmare. 
Too hard to control NOT using the mousepad (it regularly re-boots to "on" no matter what we do. I have a program on the computer now that I have to search out to again turn off the terrible mousepad.)

*Best computer has been HP desktop.* I have had 3 Toshiba laptops and they were good too. 
Had a Dell which was so bad, met the GEEK SQUAD 3 strikes and I got a new computer! That's how I got my HP.

My Sony VAIO (long time ago) laptop was fantastic also. But way too expensive for now.

So that I DISLIKE my ASUS should help you with what NOT to buy.

More specific info if you need it....


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## Bellyman

Solar Geek said:


> I have had many brand new laptops and desktops due to work- prefer the keyboards on desktops immensely. Never met one I didn't like.
> 
> I have a fancy ASUS laptop DD #1 picked for me as I am a heavy user. I hate it.
> Keyboard is flat and a nightmare.
> Too hard to control NOT using the mousepad (it regularly re-boots to "on" no matter what we do. I have a program on the computer now that I have to search out to again turn off the terrible mousepad.)
> 
> *Best computer has been HP desktop.* I have had 3 Toshiba laptops and they were good too.
> Had a Dell which was so bad, met the GEEK SQUAD 3 strikes and I got a new computer! That's how I got my HP.
> 
> My Sony VAIO (long time ago) laptop was fantastic also. But way too expensive for now.
> 
> So that I DISLIKE my ASUS should help you with what NOT to buy.
> 
> More specific info if you need it....


Not sure if the above goes for components or not.?

Reading reviews on motherboards leads me to believe that Asus makes a pretty good motherboard. 

Still leaning towards building a desktop which may be a totally different thing.


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## Nevada

Heritagefarm said:


> One more reason to like OSX or Linux - no registry.


That's true. Linux doesn't keep configuration information in one central location the way Windows does, but similar configuration information does, of course, exist within the system. Linux maintains configuration information individually along with applications, usually in flat text files. It's debatable whether that's an improvement over a central registry. I don't know that it's better or worse, it's just different.

But if you're suggesting that a Linux installation can't become fouled up by a corrupt configuration, you're dreaming.


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## Murby

Solar Geek said:


> So that I DISLIKE my ASUS should help you with what NOT to buy.


ASUS actually makes a very nice motherboards for desktop units. 
Or at least they used to.. I haven't purchased one in a while but there were top notch when I did.


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## Heritagefarm

Nevada said:


> That's true. Linux doesn't keep configuration information in one central location the way Windows does, but similar configuration information does, of course, exist within the system. Linux maintains configuration information individually along with applications, usually in flat text files. It's debatable whether that's an improvement over a central registry. I don't know that it's better or worse, it's just different.
> 
> But if you're suggesting that a Linux installation can't become fouled up by a corrupt configuration, you're dreaming.


Is that what happens if we let Hillary install the distro instead of, say, Jane Goodall?  

Honestly I don't know much about Linux. I do know it works good and that my freind loves it. Always trying to get me to install Linux, but I'm over here yawning and using my already existing OS X programs and not bothering.


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## HermitJohn

I've been reading about controlling win10 and happened to run across somebody with my old HP dc5100 having installed it. Apparently there are win10 drivers for the motherboard. Thats amazing. Its dual core processor but came with 32bit XP and has sticker saying Vista capable! LOL I get to library sometime, might download the win10 iso. Be hoot to see it run on my old computer. I once put win98 on an old 386 pre-pentium computer. Got it to run on a dare, but it was extremely slow and the swap files were really churning... In other words it was useless for anything but absolute simplest things. 


I looked but couldnt find win10 support for the orignal poster's single core processor and motherboard. Best I can tell the only single core processors supported are the Intel Atom processors, but wont swear to that. Or at least last generation of single core processors used. Requires some built in protection thing that older processors dont have.


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## HermitJohn

Well you had to figure somebody would grab that free win10 iso file from Microsoft site and burn it to dvd and sell it on ebay. Assuming since there seem to be several sellers and neither Ebay nor M$ is rushing to stop it, that they dont care. Lot like people selling linux cds and dvds. So ordered one for $4. Saves me the hassle of downloading it at library. Too big of a file for my metered mobile broadband to do it at home. 

Also found a site that offers files to slipstream the installation removing lot of the bloat. You just add the LITE pkg files they offer and at certain point in the installation you bring up a terminal and issue it a command to run the extra instructions. People that did it said it made win10 lot nicer on older computers with lower memory. Think I will try full install first to see what its like in all its bloated glory, then reinstall with slipstream LITE pkg.


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## Nevada

HermitJohn said:


> Well you had to figure somebody would grab that free win10 iso file from Microsoft site and burn it to dvd and sell it on ebay. Assuming since there seem to be several sellers and neither Ebay nor M$ is rushing to stop it, that they dont care.


My understanding is that it won't work for new registrations after 7/29.


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## Belfrybat

I haven't read the entire thread, but I purchased this back-up computer from E-Bay and am very happy. http://www.ebay.com/itm/HP-Desktop-...644096?hash=item1a10102880:g:l-MAAOSwoudW6d2v
This has more RAM and storage than you need, but the price is phenomenal. I would spring for the extra warranty for $49.00. That still brings you in under $200.00.

This is the second computer I've purchased from Tech-Depot. The first was for my sister and it malfunctioned after a month. They shipped out a replacement component right away at no charge and walked my sister through how to replace it. Good people to deal with. 

If I were to buy a laptop, this is the one I would get:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Fast-Dell-l...597067?hash=item1a05de300b:g:e1gAAOSwjVVVusFd

Again, it has more than what you probably need, but the price is excellent.

ETA: The Windows installed on these are legal unlike some sellers. That means if you want to upgrade to Win 10 you could.


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## Solar Geek

Murby said:


> ASUS actually makes a very nice motherboards for desktop units.
> Or at least they used to.. I haven't purchased one in a while but there were top notch when I did.


You are so right! They are top notch but I hate the keyboard


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## HermitJohn

Nevada said:


> My understanding is that it won't work for new registrations after 7/29.


Well its not 7/29 yet. Doesnt matter though, as its not going to activate on my computer anyway, its only free activation for those currently with win7 or win8 or at least the numbers from such a computer. My computer came with XP and still has XP, though as I say, do have a sticker that indicates I am Vista Capable!

But it will apparently install and run indefinitely unactivated. M$ makes money legally stealing your data with your consent and selling it, so they are happy to have yet another win10 user whether they get their $100 upfront or not. Unactivated, you get a watermark reminder on desktop screen and you get a static nag in the settings area. Oh and you cant change the desktop wallpaper though I ran across a way around that, though such triviality frankly doesnt matter. I just want a supported windows system to run tax software offline once a year. Though I might experiment with it a bit after turning off updates. No you cant do that in settings on anything but Enterprise edition, but there are third party apps that can or you can block communications with update site using host file or firewall.

After reading the horror stories and here is a very exhaustive one: https://hackmag.com/security/what-data-windows-10-sends-to-microsoft-and-how-to-make-it-stop/

I wouldnt trust it with regular online connection on a bet. Would first need to install a very heavy duty condom on computer before bending over and allowing myself to get gang Microshafted by Cortana and crew.


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## HermitJohn

Belfrybat said:


> I haven't read the entire thread, but I purchased this back-up computer from E-Bay and am very happy. http://www.ebay.com/itm/HP-Desktop-...644096?hash=item1a10102880:g:l-MAAOSwoudW6d2v
> This has more RAM and storage than you need, but the price is phenomenal. I would spring for the extra warranty for $49.00. That still brings you in under $200.00.
> 
> This is the second computer I've purchased from Tech-Depot. The first was for my sister and it malfunctioned after a month. They shipped out a replacement component right away at no charge and walked my sister through how to replace it. Good people to deal with.
> 
> If I were to buy a laptop, this is the one I would get:
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/Fast-Dell-l...597067?hash=item1a05de300b:g:e1gAAOSwjVVVusFd
> 
> Again, it has more than what you probably need, but the price is excellent.
> 
> ETA: The Windows installed on these are legal unlike some sellers. That means if you want to upgrade to Win 10 you could.


You can upgrade any computer that meets win10 minimum specs. Those that have had at some point win7 or win8 can upgrade and activate for free.

I have actually gotten into watching some computers sell on ebay mostly due to this thread. I was following a refurbished desktop computer similar specs to this one with a fresh activated legal copy of win10, it went for something around $55 shipped in auction and at that price probably really good deal. Hey I was willing to give $30 for it! I am sure it depends on how many interested in that particular auction. These show up with starting bid way low knowing it wont sell for that.

By way your really want around 8gb ram if you are running stock win 10. 4gb is sort of the minimum. Yea I know the win10 spec sheet says 1gb ram. I would seriously doubt it would be usuable like that. That wouldnt even run the built in spyware win10 comes with.


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## Nevada

HermitJohn said:


> its only free activation for those currently with win7 or win8 or at least the numbers from such a computer. My computer came with XP and still has XP, though as I say, do have a sticker that indicates I am Vista Capable!


Not a problem. Microsoft has extended the free Windows 10 offer to people who have pirated versions of Windows 7 or 8.1. Their statement said that they are doing that so people can see how great it is to be fully licensed Windows subscribers.

I've done a little experimenting with that. It won't work if it says the Windows 7 or 8.1 needs to be activated, but if it says it's activated the Windows 10 install will take, regardless of how 7 or 8.1 became activated.

So just install a cracked version of Windows 7 and you're good to go for a free fully-licensed install of Windows 10.


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## HermitJohn

LOL, I dont have bandwidth to download the win10 file, thats why I bought the $4 dvd. doubt win7 or win8, legit or cracked, is much smaller. So messing with them just to get officially activated and approved by M$, not worth the effort. Unless there is some small file out there intended to trick the updater into thinking I have an existing activated win7. Like I say, I am fine with unactivated copy long as it will run future versions of tax software offline once a year, since XP no longer will. Beyond that not worth the effort for tiny bit of experimenting I'd like to do with it. I am especially curious what it would take to block ALL communications to the mother ship without my specific permission when win10 is connected. 

Otherwise not going to use win10 online for anything. I'd sooner trust XP online than win10. At least with winXP I only have to worry about external threats to my data and personal info, not hidden threats from within. Far as that goes, I'd soon use the smallest operating system possible. Alas navigating the web anymore requires rather sophisticated browser, its not just static html and text like in old days. And nobody makes modern browsers for older operating systems. Not sure how old of an operating system, current browsers will work. I suspect not much past XP though win2000 and winNT arent that different from XP. Pretty sure no current version of any truly usable browser works on win98 anymore and for sure nothing older.


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## Belfrybat

4 GB is plenty to run Win 10. That is what my laptop has (previously an 8) and it runs 10 just fine. But on my work computer I needed to stay with 7, so that is why I purchased a back-up -- just in case.


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## HermitJohn

32bit or 64bit version? I think 32bit couldnt handle any more memory. 64bit can and will use lot more. Though I did find posts of people saying swapping regular hard drive for solid state hard drive speeded things up more than more memory. Oh and found some old laptops with 4gb limit on memory can unofficially be upgraded to 8gb, if you also upgrade to 64 bit system. Pointless if you only have 32bit system. HOWEVER if you then go looking for the those rare 4gb ram chips since there are only two slots, you will find them quite expensive. Meaning probably cheaper just to get a newer computer.


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## Nevada

Belfrybat said:


> 4 GB is plenty to run Win 10. That is what my laptop has (previously an 8) and it runs 10 just fine. But on my work computer I needed to stay with 7, so that is why I purchased a back-up -- just in case.


Where 4GB becomes limiting is that many motherboards have an architecture problem that will only allow 3GB to be accessed by 32-bit operating systems. But those same motherboards will allow 4GB (and more) to be access by 64-bit operating systems. I don't think there's a lot you can do about that problem except to go to 64-bit Windows.


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## HermitJohn

Ok, its dangerous to look at cheap computers. They finally found a price point for new computer even I couldnt resist. $14.50 shipped!!!! http://www.ebay.com/itm/262533394285? 

Actually with its specs, not too interested in running win10, no doubt that would be a dog, more interested in getting a 64bit version of Puppy Linux onto it. Its specs are similar to my ancient HP desktop, though imagine my desktop processor is faster than this Atom tablet processor despite its age. Maybe coolest thing about this cheap computer is that it has a usb3 port. Havent had a computer with that before.


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## Bungiex88

Please do your self a favor and use Linux. I've used Linux now since 2004 and never looked back. Linux is getting more user friendly as the years go on. I've never had a Linux computer crash or get a virus. After using it for so long then getting on a Windows computer I get frustrated with how slow Windows is. And best thing about it it is free and easy to load on a computer. As far as computers go desktops are a lot easier and cheaper to fix but laptops are nice to take all around the house. I have 1 of each


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## Nevada

Bungiex88 said:


> I've never had a Linux computer crash or get a virus.


If you get a memory fault Linux will crash as quickly as Windows. The difference is that Linux calls it a kernel panic rather than a blue screen of death. Linux server admins get around that by using error checking memory and installing Linux as a command line only interface. But that wouldn't do for a workstation. I know that if you install a 1GB memory-resident graphical interface like KDE or Gnome you'll see about the same stability as Windows.

I wouldn't know about workstation viruses on Linux. But I can tell you that rootkit viruses are a constant threat to Linux servers.

What flavor of Linux do you run? I just need a frame of reference.


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## HermitJohn

I will say some linux distributions of linux are more stable than others. Some releases of some distributions are more stable than others. Meaning some get corrupted easier than others.

All official releases of Puppy I have tried in recent years are pretty stable. But I followed Puppy almost from start. In early years, there were some noticably more stable releases than others. When I got a particularly stable one, I hung onto it until I was just absolutely forced to upgrade due to new hardware or particular software I wanted to run. Put it this way, a good operating system should be stable for a few years years unless you do lot software swaps and changes. Lot changes can make any system bit wobbly. You dont need a serious fault that shuts system down to realize there is a problem, you will get hints of things not quite working properly.

I personally dont like the heavy desktops like KDE and Gnome. Very resource heavy. The version of Puppy I use, uses Joe's Window Manager and ROX file manager. Very light weight, very fast. There are many lightweight linux window managers out there and with some work you can install and use them on any linux system, though usually lot easier to pick a distribution release that uses management systems you want by default.

Now as far as file manager, I have added ROX file manager to other distributions quite easily. Its by far my favorite file manager of all time. There is even way to put it on windows though no more than I use windows, not worth it, you first have to install a huge cygwin layer, then x-windows, then ROX. As convoluted as Explorer has become, in windows its at least worth adding a freeware Midnight Commander type file browser. Such tend not to be pretty, but they dont hide stuff like Explorer does.


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## HermitJohn

Not what I started out doing, but plugged the external hard drive to an old laptop I have that has AMD Turin dual core processor. Something like 1.4ghz? Surprised me when win10 booted. I just wanted to briefly use it as storage device. It took little bit to adjust drivers, but booted into desktop and I am using it now. You rarely could do this with earlier windows... Actually boots win10 much faster than my desktop. Well it is actually a two core processor not just a hyperthreaded single core. But just pointing out win10 runs ok on low spec machines, well with all the cloud and spy apps removed/blocked. Pretty sure you arent going to run Cortana on such a machine.


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## HermitJohn

Ok, its an AMD Turin TL50 2 core processor which is 1.6ghz. And it has 2gb ram. Took 30sec to boot to user account login. Then another 10 ti 15 seconds to get to actual desktop. Think this also was orginally an XP/Vista laptop, though I got it cheap minus hard drive and power adapter. JUst rarely use laptop anymore and kinda forgot about it. I may have upped the ram too. Probably originally had 1gb.


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## HermitJohn

So thinking since the version of puppy on internal hard drive of this laptop is old and rarely used, why not try installing win10 with this modification: sourceforge.net/projects/windows-10-lite/ You basically bring up a command prompt at certain page in installation process and run a script that uninstalls lot of the bloat or maybe prevents it installing in first place. You will no longer have Edge, but will have IE11. No Cortana of course, no cloud apps. Lot telemetry stuff uninstalled. It leaves a few crumbs, for example the search box in taskbar no longer does anything so you can hide it. If you really want a search link in taskbar, can do link to one in ?settings?. Explorer is so esoteric, I am not always sure where anything is without lot looking. 

I really like this approach better than trying to block and turn off stuff in full install. This is cleaner version. And it boots to desktop in 15 seconds!!!!! Remember this is an old laptop with 2gb ram and slow processor and old slow hard drive!!

I then installed latest Firefox and necessary extensions along with Calibre and FBreader. Dont know how much I will use the thing. But I very much like this install better than one I did on desktop with usb drive. This is lot closer to tinyxp I used to have. Though its not a warez download, since your are using a legal download direct from Microsoft website, just giving yourself more options during install....

Now if I could find a file manager I actually like for windows. I really hate the win10 Explorer. Found myself booting Puppy and mounting the win10 partition, just so I could use ROX file manager in Puppy.

Seriously if you want a lighter version of win10, give that sourceforge link above a try. I was very impressed. Its not the easiest, but if you have had even bit of experience with DOS or Linux commandline, its pretty simple. Even if you havent, just follow instructions EXACTLY.


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## HermitJohn

Interesting. I started getting the "activate windows" watermark and the no personalization punishment quickly on the old laptop install. I found a freeware program to eliminate the watermark as it bled through any software being used. Didnt care about the personalization.

Well since this install already had built in crapware removed by force, I didnt run Destroy Windows Spying which also sets up bunch firewall rules and hosts file listings to block the M$ servers communicating. So did that.

It blocked contact with windows activation servers. Voila, now can personalize my desktop. Apparently in win10, punishment is directed from outside win10 install, not by some builtin evaluation timer. If win10 cant contact M$ activation servers, then you dont get the limitations. 

Gotta say I like this LITE stripped down version of win10 on old laptop. Lot faster and pleasant to use with all the cloud stuff and spying removed/blocked. Doubt I use it much cause windows is still big target of those producing virus and other malware.

Funny thing without all the garbage, win10 boots just as fast as Puppy, maybe little faster depending how Puppy is installed. Yep on 2gb ram.....


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