# Update on strange plant



## City Bound (Jan 24, 2009)

Ok, here is the update I mentioned I would do on the plant I was curious about.This is the seed head that grew on it. I think it is curly dock. Am I wrong?

<a href="http://s1119.photobucket.com/albums/k638/joyjoy47/?action=view&amp;current=DSCN0937.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i1119.photobucket.com/albums/k638/joyjoy47/DSCN0937.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a>

<a href="http://s1119.photobucket.com/albums/k638/joyjoy47/?action=view&amp;current=Strangeplanttwoupclose.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i1119.photobucket.com/albums/k638/joyjoy47/Strangeplanttwoupclose.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a>


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## MELOC (Sep 26, 2005)

yep..and you have left the seeds mature...for shame! lol

now you will have lots more next year.


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## Ray (Dec 5, 2002)

It is a dock plant, there are several kinds of dock, curly dock, sour dock, yellow dock, narrow dock etc. and others. yours looks kinda like yellow dock. Great to eat the small leaves. This plant has the highest amount of iron of any known plant to eat, I've read. I've eat a bunch already this year. I mix it with polk, lambs quarter, etc and other wild greens, and steam, with a piece of bacon for some seasoning. these are used by crafters also. YUM!


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## motdaugrnds (Jul 3, 2002)

ROFL We are all so different in here.

No, you're not wrong. It does look like the seed head of a Curly Dock. If it were in my "vegetable" garden, I would consider myself fortunate. (In fact you should see the two types of docks I have seeding out now in my veg garden.) Dock is a nutritious green and delicious when parboiled.


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## City Bound (Jan 24, 2009)

Ok. Well, if this is dock, then I am happy that it is there and has gone to seed, because I am going to raise them in my garden. I am going to try to grow them in little patches and harvest the leaves and then the seeds. The seeds are good for adding to bread and i hear they make a nice porage. Wild plants are superior to many cultivated plants, they need less fussing, less water, and they are hardy.

Are all the different docks edible?


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## City Bound (Jan 24, 2009)

motdaugrnds said:


> ROFL We are all so different in here.
> 
> No, you're not wrong. It does look like the seed head of a Curly Dock. If it were in my "vegetable" garden, I would consider myself fortunate. (In fact you should see the two types of docks I have seeding out now in my veg garden.) Dock is a nutritious green and delicious when parboiled.


Mot iwould love to see a pic of how you have them seeding out in the field.


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## City Bound (Jan 24, 2009)

Ray said:


> It is a dock plant, there are several kinds of dock, curly dock, sour dock, yellow dock, narrow dock etc. and others. yours looks kinda like yellow dock. Great to eat the small leaves. This plant has the highest amount of iron of any known plant to eat, I've read. I've eat a bunch already this year. I mix it with polk, lambs quarter, etc and other wild greens, and steam, with a piece of bacon for some seasoning. these are used by crafters also. YUM!


Ray, i am curious, how are they used by crafters?


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## motdaugrnds (Jul 3, 2002)

CB, The two types of dock I'm nurturing show up in my thread entitled, "Gardening 2011 .. good/bad/ugly .." on page 4 of "Gardening & Plant Propagation" forum. The "broad-leaf" dock can be seen in the 2nd picture (if you look closely) between the two asian pear trees and near the first comfrey plant. The "Curly-leaf" dock is farther back in the garden in picture number 6 (last pic in first post). It had just started seeding at the time that pic was taken. Presently the seeds are dark red. (I want to keep the two different docks separate as I learn about them.)

Now I have a question for you. You spoke of using "seeds" in bread and for porage. Are you sure you aren't thinking of "Burdock"?

I have heard the seeds of "Dock" are highly astringent and may be used "medicinally" in cases of diarrhea; but I never heard anything about using them in foods.


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## City Bound (Jan 24, 2009)

Mot, I may be wrong. I will have to check my wild food book again. I will get back to you on that.


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## City Bound (Jan 24, 2009)

Ok mot I saw your dock. Looks good. Are you cultivating them for food or for observation?


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## motdaugrnds (Jul 3, 2002)

I'm cultivating both kinds of dock as well as both types of plantain, some primrose, lambsquarter, polk salet, smart weed & chickweed at this time because those I'm sure of how to recognize and prepare those for meals. I also have some Burdock David will be putting in a particular area in our garden as soon as it seeds as we want control over that plant. And I have sent about 14 samples of other plants found here to the county's agricultural lab dept for identification. So, to answer your question, yes I am cultivating them for food "and" for observation as I'm still learning about their "seasonal" looks & usages. 

Oh I also have some Comfrey (Block 14) and I found a Rugosa Rose with 3 new and healthy-looking leaves on it. 

We grow a traditional vegetable garden; however, I agree with you in that many "wild plants are superior".


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## MELOC (Sep 26, 2005)

i bet there is an acre of the stuff on this property if you add up all the patches in the pastures and fields...+ the gardens. nature has cultivated quite enough of it for my liking. 
try cultivating other stuff like rhubarb, asparagus, strawberries or any other plant that stays in one place while you have a bunch of yellow dock growing nearby. they root deep quickly and break off when pulled. then they come back double-stalked and break off when pulled even easier. then you have to dig a foot down and disturb everything it is invading.

i am not knocking your idea. there is nothing wrong with taking advantage of nature. i just think you should be aware of what you may be getting yourself into. if you decide you don't want dock around anymore, it could take years and lots of work to get rid of it.


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## motdaugrnds (Jul 3, 2002)

Meloc, My goats free-roam over everything except our garden as do our chickens. I really don't want to harvest even wild plants that animals frequent. As for cultivating the regular garden vegies, you can look at my thread to see I actually do that too.


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## springvalley (Jun 23, 2009)

Yep, sure enough, curly dock, sour dock what ever you want to call it, it is it. You can eat the plant when it is still nice and green in the spring of the year. Kinda has a lemony flavor, can make pie out of it kinda like ruhbarb pie. > Thanks marc


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## naturelover (Jun 6, 2006)

City Bound said:


> Ok. Well, if this is dock, then I am happy that it is there and has gone to seed, because I am going to raise them in my garden. I am going to try to grow them in little patches and harvest the leaves and then the seeds. The seeds are good for adding to bread and i hear they make a nice porage. Wild plants are superior to many cultivated plants, they need less fussing, less water, and they are hardy.
> 
> Are all the different docks edible?


You need to be careful about not including too much dock leaves or seeds to your diet. It's okay to eat in moderation but all the docks have quite a high oxalic acid content and consuming excessive quantities of oxalic acid can cause severe toxic symptoms including vomiting and abdominal pain, and in some cases it causes kidney stones or kidney failure. If you are already eating a lot of other foods that contain oxalic acid (which you probably are since it's in a lot of foods) then moderation with dock consumption is advised. I'd suggest you do an internet search for information about the health effects of oxalic acid and also search for a list of all _"foods that contain oxalic acid"_ so you can see how many of those foods you are already eating on a daily basis. 

.


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## motdaugrnds (Jul 3, 2002)

I totally agree with Naturelover. Caution is a must when dealing with wild plants. Since they are more nutritious than regular foods purchased in grocery stores, it stands to reason they could be equally as problematic if used to excess.


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## City Bound (Jan 24, 2009)

I am thankfull for all the good advice, everyone. 


Mot, from what I have read, and which is to be considered and confirmed, is that all parts of the plant are edible in some way. Dock is in the buckwheat family. The seeds can be ground into flour or roasted to make a coffee like drink. I read that the seeds have a buckwheat flavor. The stalk can be eated, if you peel the skin off it. it can be eaten raw or boiled. Leaves can be eaten raw or cooked, but if eaten raw wash them in water to wash of a chemical that numbs the tongue. leaves can used to make a lemonade like drink. Leaves are poisonous in large amounts. I am not sure excatly what you can do with the root but it can be eaten. From what I read the root is used more for medicine. The yellow dock root is used to make a yellow dye also.

I dont know if the toxin is only in the leaf of within the whole plant.
When I tasted the leave in the spring, it tasted like sorrel. Sorrel is another plant I have heard that can be toxic if eaten in large amounts, but it is very popular in places like poland where it is eaten a lot in the spring. They make a soup out of it and drop a large glob of sourcream in the middle of the person's bowl of sorrel soup. The cream cuts the bitterness. They eat this more as a spring tonic to cleanse the body of the ill effects of winter.


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## naturelover (Jun 6, 2006)

City Bound said:


> Leaves can be eaten raw or cooked, but if eaten raw wash them in water to wash of *a chemical that numbs the tongue*. ...... Leaves are poisonous in large amounts.
> 
> I dont know if the toxin is only in the leaf of within the whole plant.
> When I tasted the leave in the spring, it tasted like sorrel. Sorrel is another plant I have heard that can be *toxic if eaten in large amounts* .....


That toxic chemical in the leaves of both dock and sorrel is what I was cautioning you about - it is *oxalic acid*. Large amounts of it not only numbs the tongue, in juice from larger fresh, uncooked leaves if you get it on your skin it can burn the skin and cause a rash. The crystals of oxalic acid can bond together into calcium oxylate stones in the kidneys. Hence the reason why I suggested it be eaten in moderation.

.


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## City Bound (Jan 24, 2009)

Nature, thank you. I would not eat large amounts of the leaves. i would just eat a few in the spring. What I am interested in with the dock is the seed. If the seeds truely are not as toxic as the leaves, then they would be a good resource.

nature, do you eat dock leaves? If you do, how do you use them.

maybe if one combined dock and dandelion leaves together it would be safer for the body because the dadelion would keep the kidneys flushed.


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## motdaugrnds (Jul 3, 2002)

That is a good question CB. I want to hear the answer myself.

I prepared quite a bit of dock "leaves" (parboiled) during the spring and put many packages up in the freezer for winter use. I don't have enough dandelions growing here as yet; but will next year and, if mixing the two together as a dish works to negate the negative aspect of dock, that would be a good thing.

I have some dock seeding out in the garden now and am gooing to pull off one of the seed heads to see what it is like for porage.  Thanks for the information CB

Just discovered "roots" can be tinctured and makes an "iron-rich" tonic.


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## City Bound (Jan 24, 2009)

You are welcome Mot. I am new to wild plants so I have no practical experience with them, other then dadelions which I explored pretty heavy this spring, so I have no idea how some of these things I read about curly dock will work out. I have no idea how to literally use the seeds yet. We had a few days of heavy rain, so I am waiting for the seed head to dry and then I will actually dig in and experiment with the seeds. I dont know if they need to have the husks removed. I will try to gather some info on those realities when I actually get to play with the seeds. 

I have no idea how to make the porage, so proceed with caution, and I have no idea if it tastes nice. My hunch and hope is that the seeds taste a little like buckwheat.

Mot, if you have a grain mill, mill some up and see how it comes out. I would be curious to know.

I dont know for a fact if dandelion would help reduce any ill effect that the oxalic acid may cause, it was a hunch I tossed out there to NatureLover to see what she might say. I personally think dandelions have a good shot of keeping the dangers of the dock down because dadelion is a diaretic and it will wash out a good deal of the oxalic acid that may otherwise have a chance to just sit around in the kidney for too long causing miscief.

Do you think you will experiment with the root?


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## City Bound (Jan 24, 2009)

mot, I was trying to find some info for you on how to make the porridge, but I didnt find much. One little bit of info that i found while looking is important though. Most people eat them with the husks on, but, eating the husks is like eating high fiber and it can cause a lot of, omm, errr, how should I put it....pooping.

Also, some people roast the seeds and eat them for a snack.


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## City Bound (Jan 24, 2009)

naturelover said:


> That toxic chemical in the leaves of both dock and sorrel is what I was cautioning you about - it is *oxalic acid*. Large amounts of it not only numbs the tongue, in juice from larger fresh, uncooked leaves if you get it on your skin it can burn the skin and cause a rash. The crystals of oxalic acid can bond together into calcium oxylate stones in the kidneys. Hence the reason why I suggested it be eaten in moderation.
> 
> .


Nature, I am truely greatful for the warning, you truely did help me.

How serious do you consider this oxalic acid? 

I was feeling a little concerned and alarmed about potentally harming myself so I tried to find some info on oxalix acid. I was suprised to find that oxalic acid is in a lot of accepted mainstream foods like chard, beet greens, rhubarb, and spinach. Are you concerned about these other foods also?


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## naturelover (Jun 6, 2006)

I wasn't trying to frighten you into not eating dock, just cautioning about not eating it in excess because of the high content of oxalic acid. There are many foods that most people eat on a daily basis that have some oxalic acid in them, some have more, some have less so it's helpful to be aware of how much of it is being consumed. 

Cooking does actually help to neutralize some of the oxalic acid and the dock leaves can be cooked as you would many other types of leafy greens - steamed, stir fried, curried, simmered in stews and soups, used to wrap around fillings and baked in the oven (you know how you do with stuffed cabbage or grape leaves) and they can also be pickled which will additionally help to neutralize some of the oxalic acid. 

As to the seeds, yes they do have some oxalic acid in them but you aren't going to be eating them raw, you need to cook them anyway. They can be ground up in a mill into a fine or mealy flour to add to other flours for all manner of baking purposes; or cracked or crushed with mortar and pestel for roasting and for including with other cereal grains to get cooked into a porridge. I personally wouldn't recommend eating the cracked seeds all by themselves as a porridge just because there will be a lot of chaff that can't be separated from the inner kernel of the seed and even though cooking the chaff in water will soften it somewhat that might still be too much coarse fibre for the bowels. So mix the seeds with other cereal grains for a porridge.

As to the mention of eating dandelion combined with dock leaves, that is a good thing to do and I understand that was a very common practise amongst North American natives and was an important part of their staple diet along with nettle leaves and chickweed and other wild edibles.

Here is a link to a website I'm recommending for you - there is much valuable information in here that I think you will enjoy very much and find suitable to your purposes for foraging for wild edibles, making medicines, profiles and historical uses of wild plants and fruits, etc. http://www.sacredearth.com/

And here is a link to some quick information about oxalic acid, what it's potential risks are, plus a _nearly_ full list at the bottom of the page of most of the foods that contain oxalic acid - you will be surprised how many foods it is in and this list is incomplete, there are others that are not listed on the page. Don't pay too much attention to the content percentages listed there because other dietary considerations must be taken into account:
http://oxalicacidinfo.com/

Last but not least, you asked if I personally was concerned about these foods. For myself yes because both I and my twin sister and our mother are already victims of oxalic acid and we got calcium oxalate kidney stones from having eaten too many foods that contained it for too many years. I won't go into the unpleasant details but needless to say we have by process of experimentation and elimination cut back on or totally eliminated several of our favorite foods from our regular diets - black tea, coffee, asparagus, tomatoes, eggplant, spinach, all beans, lentils, blueberries, blackberries, rhubarb, quinoa and beets seem to have been the very worst offenders for me and I have totally eliminated them from my diet. Anything else that contains it I eat very sparingly.

.


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## motdaugrnds (Jul 3, 2002)

Ok now I'm quite confused. Naturelover, you stated above, "...Cooking does actually help to neutralize some of the oxalic acid and the dock leaves can be cooked as you would many other types of leafy greens - steamed, stir fried, curried, simmered in stews and soups, used to wrap around fillings and baked in the oven (you know how you do with stuffed cabbage or grape leaves) and they can also be pickled which will additionally help to neutralize some of the oxalic acid. 

As to the seeds, yes they do have some oxalic acid in them but you aren't going to be eating them raw, you need to cook them anyway."
====================
However, the information I have found on Oxalic acid states, "...Oxalic acid is a colorless, organic compound that occurs naturally in plants, animals and in humans. Organic oxalic acid is an important element, even essential, to maintain and to stimulate peristaltic motion in our body. It is when oxalic acid is cooked or processed that it becomes dead, or inorganic and thus harmful to our body. Oxalic acid readily combines with calcium. If both oxalic acid and calcium are organic at the point of combination, the result is beneficial where the oxalic acid helps the digestive assimilation of the calcium. At the same time, this combination helps stimulate the peristaltic functions in our body. It is only when the oxalic acid has become inorganic because it was cooked or processed, that it forms an interlocking compound with the calcium that destroys the nourishing value of both. This results in a deficiency of calcium that causes decomposition of the bones. When the concentration of inorganic oxalic acid is high, it may precipitate out in crystalline form. These tiny crystals can irritate the human tissues, and get lodged in the stomach, kidneys and bladder as 'stones'...Just remember, organic oxalic acid is essential for your body and is completely harmless if consumed in organic form. It is the inorganic oxalic acid that causes trouble to your body. This is the reason why when you drink fresh raw spinach juice, your body utilizes 100% of all the minerals that spinach has to offer. But when cooked, the oxalic acid in spinach becomes inorganic and may posed some health problems in the long run."


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## City Bound (Jan 24, 2009)

Ok, now I am confused also.


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## Mid Tn Mama (May 11, 2002)

When you cook things with oxalic acid, just remember to parboil, change the water and do another one or two times. You also need to do this with scarlet runner beans and the like.

Citybound, I like to cut those seed heads and put on my birdfeeder or feed to chickens. I don't think you have chickens though. Very interested in what a Brooklyn backyard might look like. If you post pictures, I bet I can think of a million ways to feed yourself there! Space isn't everything! I'll bet you aren't utilizing 100%


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## naturelover (Jun 6, 2006)

motdaugrnds said:


> Ok now I'm quite confused. Naturelover ..... However, the information I have found on Oxalic acid states, .....


I will attempt to un-confuse you. That information is very out of date and medically incorrect in several respects. You didn't post a link for where you got that information from so I went looking for it on internet. On the first search page that came up I found the exact same full paragraph, word for word, posted on dozens of websites, blogs, forums, many of whom were taking credit for the information themselves. The one agenda all of those websites had in common was the promotion of juicing and raw food vegetarianism. Upon further investigation I finally found the original author of that paragraph and the name of the book that it came from. It was from a book called "Fresh Vegetable and Fruit Juices: What's Missing in Your Body", originally published in 1936 and written by Norman Wardhaugh Walker (born *January 4, 1886 &#8212; *died* June 6, 1985*). http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Norman_W._Walker 

Mr. Walker, a rather controversial character who believed no foods of any kind should ever be cooked, was neither a doctor or a scientist and has now been dead for 26 years, published that book over 75 years ago at a time when we still didn't have all the medical and scientific advances and understanding that we now have of how many foods, minerals and chemicals work in the human body. A lot of his writings at that time were based on theory only but were not backed up even by medical science of 75 years ago, and many of his theories have been disproved by modern medical science of today. There is a great deal more science now known about oxalic acid and other chemicals, minerals and vitamins in foods and how they interact with each other to effect the human body, what their benefits are and what their toxic effects are. 

What I know about oxalic acid (which I freely admit I don't know everything about it) is all knowledge gleaned from current medical knowledge and much information given to me by my own medical specialists in the field of renal health. Some of that information was told to me by my renal specialist while I was lying in a hospital bed stuck full of needles and tubes while recovering from my first nearly fatal renal failure due to the effects of excessive amounts of oxalic acid in my foods.

What I'm trying to say here is don't believe everything you read on internet, and don't believe everything I might say on internet either. Dig deeper and deeper to get to the truth and stick with credible, up-to-date medical knowledge and reliable, modern scientific sources that can be verified. There is much valuable information from many sources from the past but it must be counter-balanced with verifiable scientifically proven evidence from the present.

.


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## City Bound (Jan 24, 2009)

Mid Tn Mama said:


> When you cook things with oxalic acid, just remember to parboil, change the water and do another one or two times. You also need to do this with scarlet runner beans and the like.
> 
> Citybound, I like to cut those seed heads and put on my birdfeeder or feed to chickens. I don't think you have chickens though. Very interested in what a Brooklyn backyard might look like. If you post pictures, I bet I can think of a million ways to feed yourself there! Space isn't everything! I'll bet you aren't utilizing 100%


I am going to post a thread with some pics of my garden, once my garden has matured enough. if you can help me use more space, I welcome the help.


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## Mid Tn Mama (May 11, 2002)

When you do, think of getting pictures that show the things you are working around: shade, garbage cans, etc.. Also fencing. 

Don't wait until you have mature plants, I want to get started right now!


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## City Bound (Jan 24, 2009)

moderation is the key with everything. I think we have to listen to our bodies. You mentioned tea having oxalic acid. Sometimes I crave tea and it feel healthy to drink it and some times if I over drink it it I feel unhealthy, I get an overly acid stomach ph and my joint feel strange. 

Everything we eat is medicine and poison. Each food is both medicine and poison at the same time depending on the person and the person's currant state. 

I think balance is the key to using these food and sometimes we need a counter balance when we are trying to stay balanced. Like, I was reading that cholesteral is not the big bad wolf that we have been told that it is, the big bad wolf is not getting enough Licithin in the diet. Lichithin cleans the cholesteral out of the system. We need more whole grains in the diet to get that licithin. I think with wild foods it is going to have to be a balanceing act also.


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## City Bound (Jan 24, 2009)

Mid Tn Mama said:


> When you do, think of getting pictures that show the things you are working around: shade, garbage cans, etc.. Also fencing.
> 
> Don't wait until you have mature plants, I want to get started right now!


it is too late now. This is the peak of the growing season here. I will be starting a fall crop in a week though.


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## motdaugrnds (Jul 3, 2002)

Yes, CB, I totally agree. We need to know our own bodies and listen intently. I know I had to cut out salt (except during hot summers) as it played havac with my body. At the present time I 'm dealing with what I believe to be gout in the balls of my feet. (The doctor told me I didn't have gout; but I know my body is telling me I have something that sure seems to be gout.)

Anywho, as Naturelover stated, we need to stay on top of what is being learned and look beyond the words at the probable motive. With this being said, I parboil all my greens that do not taste sweet raw. Guess I'll find out how these wild plants affect me; however, I'm moving with caution. I do believe we can overdo even the healthiest of foods; so as you said CB, "...balance is the key..."


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## City Bound (Jan 24, 2009)

Mot, my brothers get gout all the time. I heard that gout was caused by uric acid (maybe I spelled it wrong) building up int he body. it sounds like the kidney needs regular flushing, when I think of gout. We should only have yellow urine once a day in the morning, unless we take vitimin pills that color the urine, and the rest of the day the urine should be clear. if it is not clear that means we need more water intake. Water, not juice and soda.

Do you eat a lot of tuna fish? My brother lived on the stuff and then doc told him to cut down because it was adding the gout trouble.

This suggestion may sound odd, but, what I do sometimes is i sit and I relax and I try to tune into my ailment mentally and I try to ask it what it needs to heal. often it works. Sometimes, if I am sick in some way, I will go to the health food store and glance over the herb section and open myself, and ask intuition or a higher power guide me to the herb I need. The herbs I found when I did this were new to me, because herbs were new to me, but they always were what I needed. 

maybe you can tune into your foot and wait to see what thoughts or feelings emurge that could lead you to a sollution.


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## motdaugrnds (Jul 3, 2002)

CB believe it or not, I do let my body talk to me. It can be a psychological thing; but it often works.

My urine is clear and I do drink a lot of water. I also have been eating a lot of fish (and taking fish oil) for joint pain in my hip; so maybe this is contributing to the ailment in my feet. OMG where is the balance?

I've been taking a lot of Vitamin C to help flush my system too; still the problem persists.


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## DryHeat (Nov 11, 2010)

> At the present time I 'm dealing with what I believe to be gout in the balls of my feet. (The doctor told me I didn't have gout; but I know my body is telling me I have something that sure seems to be gout.)


I've been reading through this thread planning to add: oxalate consumption is suggested as a cause of gout, or at least its flareups, if excessive. Another thing to research thrown into the mix, lol.


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## motdaugrnds (Jul 3, 2002)

Thanks DryHeat. I have been experimenting with wild plants this year, eating quite a bit of "cooked" poke salet, dock & plantain. I read there is a lot of oxalate in these when cooked; then read they are better for you when cooked. Again, I'm yet to understand. 

I was taking MSM (over counter capsules) to help with joint pain; and I ran out of it 3 days ago as we have not been able to get to the store to get more. I've noticed my feet don't hurt as much; so now I'm wondering if that was the straw that broke the camel's back (so to speak).


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## City Bound (Jan 24, 2009)

Mott, i am trying to tune into what may be a balance for you. Ask your body if oats would help (not those junky quick cook ones though). Ask if sea salt or another natural salt would help. Ask is fresh water, like poland spring would help. Ask is massage or a hot bath would help.


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## naturelover (Jun 6, 2006)

What you have been talking about is similar to doing what is called intuitive _self testing_, also known as _body dowsing_. Self testing is like kinesiology in that it lets your body 'speak' to you to tell you what it needs or does not need. The method is very effective once you get the hang of it and can help a person determine what their body needs in the way of foods, medicines, even for choosing a variety of vibrational healing modalities such as crystal therapy, reiki, color therapy, flower essences, or plants to keep in the house for their beneficial energy signatures, etc. The method can be expanded in a number of ways - literally using your body as a pendulum or dowsing rod to choose things or determine directions to go in or goals to set for yourself. Here are a couple of links that show you how to do self testing and if you have any questions about other ways it can be used you can ask me.

http://www.ladybarbara.net/html/self-testing.html

http://www.healthcallsus.net/hh_enscan.html

.


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## motdaugrnds (Jul 3, 2002)

Naturelover, those are great urls. I really like Hart Brent's "self-testing" method. 

I have used a similar one all my life with respect, not only to myself, but to my son as well (especially when he was a child). It takes a little training to set aside the world and let your senses pick up what your body is telling you; but I have caught many a situation that could have been real bad if I had not caught it as quickly as I did, i.e, jaundice, anemia even insecticide poisoning. Now I've caught "gout" before it can develop into something more difficult to deal with.

I brought home some black cherry concentrate today and ran that through my sense of self...lol...almost fell on my face! (Did the same thing with the black cherry in capsule form and still had that strong forward pull.) I had purchased this BCconcentrate because of what people had said on the forum and because of the knowledge I have of my own body; so what occurred didn't really surprise me. Just encourages me.


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## Jan in CO (May 10, 2002)

I for one am glad to know what that plant is! It grows wild along the roadsides here, and I brought a bunch of seed heads home once to see if the chickens would eat it. They wouldn't touch it. I was hoping it was some relative of amaranth and took some to the extension office of all places and asked them to have one of the master gardeners call me about it. Would you believe no one knew what it was? The seeds are so prolific, I was hoping it would be good feed. The goats will eat the plants, tho. I don't give it to them a lot, however.


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## naturelover (Jun 6, 2006)

motdaugrnds said:


> Naturelover, those are great urls. I really like Hart Brent's "self-testing" method.
> 
> I have used a similar one all my life with respect, not only to myself, but to my son as well (especially when he was a child). It takes a little training to set aside the world and let your senses pick up what your body is telling you; but I have caught many a situation that could have been real bad if I had not caught it as quickly as I did, i.e, jaundice, anemia even insecticide poisoning. Now I've caught "gout" before it can develop into something more difficult to deal with.
> 
> I brought home some black cherry concentrate today and ran that through my sense of self...lol...almost fell on my face! (Did the same thing with the black cherry in capsule form and still had that strong forward pull.) I had purchased this BCconcentrate because of what people had said on the forum and because of the knowledge I have of my own body; so what occurred didn't really surprise me. Just encourages me.


This thought just occured to me and I had to LOL. The suggestion of using a method like self-testing is kind of the opposite of what I said about sticking with researching credible, up-to-date medical knowledge and reliable, modern scientific sources that can be verified. :hysterical:

But anyway, it's good that you relate to the self-testing method. I've developed a couple of methods for self-test dowsing that work good for me, one I use my sense of smell and the other I go by vibrational sensations I get through the palms of my hands.

.


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## City Bound (Jan 24, 2009)

naturelover said:


> This thought just occured to me and I had to LOL. The suggestion of using a method like self-testing is kind of the opposite of what I said about sticking with researching credible, up-to-date medical knowledge and reliable, modern scientific sources that can be verified. :hysterical:
> 
> But anyway, it's good that you relate to the self-testing method. I've developed a couple of methods for self-test dowsing that work good for me, one I use my sense of smell and the other I go by vibrational sensations I get through the palms of my hands.
> 
> .


Well, a little bit of clinical medicine, a little folk medicine, and a little intuitive sensitivity all can intermingle.


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## City Bound (Jan 24, 2009)

Jan in CO said:


> I for one am glad to know what that plant is! It grows wild along the roadsides here, and I brought a bunch of seed heads home once to see if the chickens would eat it. They wouldn't touch it. I was hoping it was some relative of amaranth and took some to the extension office of all places and asked them to have one of the master gardeners call me about it. Would you believe no one knew what it was? The seeds are so prolific, I was hoping it would be good feed. The goats will eat the plants, tho. I don't give it to them a lot, however.


Jan, I would check the leaves of the plant to get a better sense of if it is or is not dock. be careful.


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## motdaugrnds (Jul 3, 2002)

ROFL Isn't it wonderful we are all so different?

Jan in CO, if it is dock, it is healthy for humans.


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## RedDirt Cowgirl (Sep 21, 2010)

So good of you to give this to us, I ended up with an inspiring article about St. John's Wort - I'm gonna grow my own!



naturelover said:


> What you have been talking about is similar to doing what is called intuitive _self testing_, also known as _body dowsing_. Self testing is like kinesiology in that it lets your body 'speak' to you to tell you what it needs or does not need. The method is very effective once you get the hang of it and can help a person determine what their body needs in the way of foods, medicines, even for choosing a variety of vibrational healing modalities such as crystal therapy, reiki, color therapy, flower essences, or plants to keep in the house for their beneficial energy signatures, etc. The method can be expanded in a number of ways - literally using your body as a pendulum or dowsing rod to choose things or determine directions to go in or goals to set for yourself. Here are a couple of links that show you how to do self testing and if you have any questions about other ways it can be used you can ask me.
> 
> http://www.ladybarbara.net/html/self-testing.html
> 
> ...


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## naturelover (Jun 6, 2006)

You're welcome RedDirt Cowgirl. If you liked that then here is one more for you, it is Susun Weed's "Wise Woman" forum. You won't find another forum or people quite like this anywhere else on internet. Chock-a-block full of information about how to prepare and use "weeds" and other plants for all purposes and how to 'communicate' with them on a spiritual or intuitive level. If you liked what you already read about St. John's Wort then take a boo through the forums there and do a search there on the WW forum about it and you will find even more information. The women who have those websites I posted are also members on the Wise Woman forum and there are also several HT members are members on there too (all known by other user names of course) - mostly women, but men are welcome too. There are also members from many other places around the world who contribute their weed wisdom and plant culture from their locations. People of all cultures and belief systems are contributing members there and it's a very friendly and supportive cyberspace environment. http://www.healingwiseforum.com/ 

Oh, edited to add: You are in California? You might want to check out whether or not you can legally grow St. John's Wort there - I seem to recall that it's restricted to grow it in California and Oregon because it's classified as a highly invasive species there. At one time it was so invasive that in 1946 California imported the leaf-beetles _Chrysolina quadrigemina_ Rossi, and _C. hyperici_ Forst from Australia to exterminate the plant, which the beetles did quite a good job of but they didn't get all of it of course. I know there are probably ways that responsible herbalists there now get around that by growing it in strictest confinement but I'd recommend you should find out whether or not it is still restricted before jumping in and growing it openly in open spaces. You might have to grow it in pots somewhere where it can't be seen or be reported and where there's no chance the seeds can infest your property or any agricultural and/or livestock lands around you.

.


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## Ray (Dec 5, 2002)

Mostly its the young little leaves with the acit and then just steam or boil before eating instead of using the small leaves in a salad and thats the cure for that. I believe the crafters used the roots for a nice yellow die, the seed stalks were striped of dry seeds and the seeds roasted and coffee was made of the roasted. So some called it coffee plant. Do a search for usses of Dock plant it was and can still be phenomenal. All the medicinal and food uses. and don't forget the dye. I eat it till fall, but then I eat many many WEEDS. I consider the flavor of wild plants most wonderful! Like the Cat Tail, one of the most useable plants known to man also!, along with my favorite Lambs quarter, & Polk. When I didn't have a garden I used to take the cat tail and peel the stalk off and slice the center and use them as a side dish like sliced cucumbers. Also battered and fried the core. I guess there isn't any part of the cat tail you can not use?? The Lambs quarter is just the best flavored salad I've EVER tasted PERIOD. Also steam the stems, and lightly boil the leaves with Polk, Dock, lady finger, mouse ear, chick weed, etc. etc. etc. as with what ever is in season. Pigweed is great in salad, OR. You can use the Lambs quarter seeds later in the year, they have a great nutty taste! 
They worst part of eating the wild plants is the time collecting them, but if you have or know anyone with cattle or animals, with a feed lot or barn lot, you can get most of the plants there along with the edges of yards etc. Just be sure no one is spraying any weed killers or insect poison anywhere around your collecting area!!! be sure to get clean wild plants, & if you oick a little slower you can preclean your food before you put it into your collection bag. I always inspect quickly for bugs or worms, insect eaten leaves etc. & avoid them. So when you go to wash the pickings you just have to run it lightly under running water and slap it against the sink to remove the excess water, then throw it in a storage bag for the fridg, or put it in the pot to cook.


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## motdaugrnds (Jul 3, 2002)

Ray, you just reminded me to run out to the garden and grab some of those lambsquarter seeds.


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## RedDirt Cowgirl (Sep 21, 2010)

Thanks again, Nature Lover, good point about the invasive aspect of this plant. Unfortunately, there's not any control of invasives by the state at all, but St. John's Wort isn't invasive here. (Our ranch is in such sere conditions sometimes I wish something would take over!) But I keep my domestics under pretty tight control, no matter what. Been a long-time member of the California Native Plant Society so I feel pretty strongly about this - good to hear from folks with some insight to the problem. Good on ye' for giving the advice.

The Healing Wise forum looks fascinating! Talk about inclusive, this spot has it all...


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## City Bound (Jan 24, 2009)

I was stung twice in two weeks by nettle. Ripped a leaf of the dock plant in the picture, crushed it up, rubbed it on my nettle sting. Greatly reduced the sting in seconds, then made it vanish by the end of the day.

I think it is good to keep it around as medicine. As long I chose to grow nettles, I am going to keep dock growing also.


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## motdaugrnds (Jul 3, 2002)

Oh very nice thing to know about dock. Now if I can just get some edible nettles growing around here. About all I've found is "bull thistle".


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