# The perfect car



## genebo (Sep 12, 2004)

This may not be the best place to post this, but I don't know of any others, so here goes:

The perfect car will be solar powered electric. It will be able to travel a hundred miles on a single battery charge, that it can get from a home roof mounted solar array. It will use motor braking during coasting to charge the battery. Braking energy will be used to charge the battery. It will drive through and derive charging power from all four wheels. It will have flexible solar panels on parts of the body to provide charging. Enough on-board charging will be provided to boost the batteries and extend the range while you're working or shopping.

To go a step further, a standard will be established and plugs will be shaped to reflect the voltage used. Electric charging stations will be available at all service stations and parking locations. Put a few bucks in the meter and charge up.

Standardized removable battery packs will extend the range to 300 miles. Major service stations will provide exchange service for these batteries, so if you have to take a trip, you can drive up to 300 miles, then pull into an Exxon station, instantly swap your batteries for fresh ones and pay the $30 fee with a credit card.

I hope that there is someone reading this who can make this happen. If you are that person, keep me in mind. I'm your test driver!

Genebo


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## Michael Kawalek (Jun 21, 2007)

You must watch a lot of Star Trek!


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## PyroDon (Jul 30, 2006)

well first off rather than flexible solar cells the car will be painted with photovoltic paint which will constantly add a trickle charge. 
or a much simpler method such as fuel cells where you pull up and fill up on hydrogen which then combines in the battery to produce the electricity and exits the car in the form of distilled water .
I can see that by your plan electric companies should make a killing a few bucks for a few cents worth of kWs would be a great deal for them , but your still burning fossil fuels to get the electricity. 
the real problem isnt building an electric car that can do the job the problem is doing it at a cost people can afford. then you have the safety issues . 120 volts at high amps become a real issue in a crash as do hydrogen tanks , and acid leaking batteries . explosive gases and sparks from electrical shorts dont mix well at all . 
Now figure out how to make bomb proof hydrogen tanks and a method of cheaply producing hydrogen and we will be all set .


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## genebo (Sep 12, 2004)

I never watched Star Trek, but worked at NASA for 38 years. We believed that if you could dream it up, we could make it happen.

The hydrogen fuel cell is an example.

Actually, most of the electronics and communications devices and many of the transportation forms we take for granted today were once science fiction. Some are even ahead of science fiction.

Do you know why the PV device was invented?

Genebo


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## wy_white_wolf (Oct 14, 2004)

Why even use batteries?

Capacitors can store energy more effeciently and don't need replaced like batteries. They can also be quickly charged so it would be about the same as pulling into a gas station to charge them.


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## genebo (Sep 12, 2004)

What is the cost of a large capacitor (or capacitors) compared to a battery? Can you get them big enough to provide power for a long time?

Genebo


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## kendall j (Mar 30, 2007)

Super capacitors or ultra capacitors are very expensive. Capacitors would charge in seconds, but capacitors tend to give up their charge rapidly. 

I guess if you built a large enough capicitor, you could get it to hold a charge longer, but it would be insanely high in cost at this point. Combining batteries with capacitors could work well. Having capacitors that charge during a regenerative braking cycle would be useful for a burst of energy to use on acceleration.

Kendall


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## genebo (Sep 12, 2004)

"A regenerative braking cycle". Is that the proper name for using the motor to slow the car by loading it to charge the battery (or capacitor)? I've been looking for the correct term for that.

Genebo


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## BeaG (Aug 21, 2008)

Here is a link to an "air powered" car that uses no fuel except compressed air. The car will be available in the US next year for under $20,000. This is interesting reading; the average economy is expected to be 106 gasoline-equivalent mpg. On the left hand side, there is a link that shows how the motor works.

http://zeropollutionmotors.us/?page_id=43


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## 57plymouth (Dec 23, 2008)

Sorry, this is the perfect car.


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## wy_white_wolf (Oct 14, 2004)

So, Christine lives


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## Kevingr (Mar 10, 2006)

I think it needs to get at least 250 miles on a charge without special batteries or extra charging and be priced in the mid to low twenties. My commute to work is 60 miles one way, throw in a trip to Costco or Sam's on the way home, then your mother calls and wants you to swing over there and help her clean out her gutters. By the time your day is done you've but on 200 miles.

Granted, driving 200 miles a day isn't the norm for most people, but for many country people it is. The only car that gets me excited so far is the Tesla, but it's to expensive and impractical for daily family car. To charge these vehicles we would need something other than fossil fuel burning plants though, nuclear, solar, wind? Maybe a home hybrid solar/wind system that runs a process to create hydrogen fuel cells that are used to run generators?


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## CamM (Dec 6, 2008)

I think it'd work better to have a little windmill anchored to the chassis recharging from the wind produced while the car drives. It's hard to believe that right now solar panels could do much for a car quickly enough to regenerate it.


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## wy_white_wolf (Oct 14, 2004)

CamM said:


> I think it'd work better to have a little windmill anchored to the chassis recharging from the wind produced while the car drives. It's hard to believe that right now solar panels could do much for a car quickly enough to regenerate it.


The wind genny would do less than solar panels. The increased drag from it would take more energy to overcome than it can generate.


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## rzrubek (May 13, 2004)

This looks like an electric car to me. Only thing different is it is using compressed air for the battery. I hope it works good though, as air tanks are much cheaper and easier to recycle than batteries.


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## gwest (Oct 9, 2008)

Ram turbines built into the chassis to power generators to produce electricity to charge the batteries while in motion would work. Now just scale it all down to fit.


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## wy_white_wolf (Oct 14, 2004)

If this is what you mean by Ram Turbine

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ram_air_turbine

Nope, The extra turbulance created by them takes more power to overcome than they produce.


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## MELOC (Sep 26, 2005)

it would take 4 hours to fill the tank at home when it is plugged in. if electricity costs 10 cents per kwh, that would be 55 cents x 4 hours. that means you could "fill er' up" for $2.20 and if you drive under 35 mph, you would burn no gas. i think that is pretty awesome.


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## Orchardsmith (5 mo ago)

genebo said:


> This may not be the best place to post this, but I don't know of any others, so here goes:
> 
> The perfect car will be solar powered electric. It will be able to travel a hundred miles on a single battery charge, that it can get from a home roof mounted solar array. It will use motor braking during coasting to charge the battery. Braking energy will be used to charge the battery. It will drive through and derive charging power from all four wheels. It will have flexible solar panels on parts of the body to provide charging. Enough on-board charging will be provided to boost the batteries and extend the range while you're working or shopping.
> 
> ...


This is what I call a nightmare scenario. The marketplace will provide just what is needed just in time, if allowed to do so.


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## 012345 (6 mo ago)

One way to look at this .. based on physics, it will take exactly the same amount of energy to move an object regardless of the source. For an EV the source is stored energy that was created previously (most likely fossil fueled or nuclear or solar). Fossil fuel burned now (IC engine) or previously (power source to charge battery) is still going to be about the same. Nuclear has it's issues but really has more of a stigma because of the fears of radiation, contamination, etc. which is overstated really. Solar requires massive cells to gather the electricity and time and the batteries themselves are a huge hazard plus they take a ton of natural resources to produce that will also run out some day. In many regards, high speed travel is just not "green" and never will be.


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## Orchardsmith (5 mo ago)

HillFun said:


> One way to look at this .. based on physics, it will take exactly the same amount of energy to move an object regardless of the source. For an EV the source is stored energy that was created previously (most likely fossil fueled or nuclear or solar). Fossil fuel burned now (IC engine) or previously (power source to charge battery) is still going to be about the same. Nuclear has it's issues but really has more of a stigma because of the fears of radiation, contamination, etc. which is overstated really. Solar requires massive cells to gather the electricity and time and the batteries themselves are a huge hazard plus they take a ton of natural resources to produce that will also run out some day. In many regards, high speed travel is just not "green" and never will be.


Fine. But the cost of the fuels varies widely, and that's what this whole discussion is actually about. For the foreseeable future oil and natural gas will be far more economical. That makes it criminal and just plain effed up to kill the oil and gas industries now because green whack jobs want to feel warm and fuzzy inside at our expense.


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## doc- (Jun 26, 2015)

The carbon footprint of producing EV batteries takes 4-8 yrs, depending on miles driven & specifics of the battery pak, to "pay back" vs using fossil fuels. Just when the TreeHuggers' debt is paid, it's time to replace the batteries and run up the debt again....and then we have to talk about the disposal problems of all those nasty minerals in the batteries.

As long as KE = 1/2mv^2, the only way to reduce automotive energy usage is to reduce m and v &/or drive less. They will never be able to repeal the Second Law of Thermodynamics no matter how Liberal they are.


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