# Dying



## fishhead (Jul 19, 2006)

What can be expected when a person stops eating and only takes in water?


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## DocM (Oct 18, 2006)

A reasonably healthy person can survive without food, if they have water, for a very long time. Months.


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## fishhead (Jul 19, 2006)

I'm wondering if there is pain involved. The person is elderly and has other health issues.


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## goatsareus (Jun 23, 2007)

elderly person, maybe three to four weeks


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## fishhead (Jul 19, 2006)

Is it painful?


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## RoseGarden (Jun 5, 2005)

It's impossible to say in each, individual case. I will offer what my family went through when my grandfather passed away. He had many strokes and cardiac arrests, and his body was just basically worn out. He was semi-conscious from time to time, seemed to be aware of his surroundings on occasion but not able to effectively communicate. He had pain from laying down all the time, and even though he was turned and shifted to prevent bed sores, he still had significant pain. You can imagine if you spent months laying down all the time how bad your back would hurt, for example. He also had morphine all the time, party to alleviate his pain and partly to keep him sedated so he wouldn't suffer. His digestive tract had ceased functioning and would not process food, what was given through his feeding tube had to be suctioned out because it simply sat in his stomach, which no longer functioned. After a certain point he didn't even have water, and at that point it is simply a matter of time. He lasted 14 days with no food or water. I am not sure if he had an i.v. drip or not, but I do know much of his morphine was drops under his tongue which my mother administered several times a day. 

If the elderly person you are speaking of has morphine or something strong like that for other issues, there likely won't be pain or hunger.


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## fishhead (Jul 19, 2006)

Thanks.


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## donsgal (May 2, 2005)

fishhead said:


> Is it painful?


I wouldn't think so. At first the person may feel some hunger, at some point they may feel very hungry. But eventually, the body will kick into "peaceful death mode" and there will be no discomfort. In fact, they will probably feel rather happy and euphoric and very good right before they die. I have read many places where, if you are not drugged out of your mind, that this happens.

donsgal


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## marvella (Oct 12, 2003)

as a former hospice nurse, i have some experience with this.

before answering, i need to know WHY you want to know, please?


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## fishhead (Jul 19, 2006)

Don't worry I'm not thinking of starving myself or anyone else. A relative of mine has decided to stop eating and taking her medications because she wants to take control of her remaining life.


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## RoseGarden (Jun 5, 2005)

There is nothing wrong with morphine, demerol or similar in a situation where someone is terminal and their time is short. It can relieve pain and alleviate anxiety as they get closer to dying. They need not be drugged into sedation, either. Light doses can help a great deal while still allowing clarity of thought and coherence.

I'm sorry to hear about your relative. It is good that she wants to take control of her remaining time. :angel:


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## comfortablynumb (Nov 18, 2003)

I dunno about dying of starvation, the last few days or weeks could get mighty unpleasant.

do a web search for this subject... seems like the most popular and effective route is a plastic bag and helium inhalation.

Startvation i think would be kinda unpleasant.... but I just read here that once you hit a certain point in starvation you loose your appetite and get very lethargic, so maybe it isnt to bad.

i think I'd rather jump off a cliff and enjoy one last adrenalin rush.


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## naturelover (Jun 6, 2006)

fishhead said:


> What can be expected when a person stops eating and only takes in water?..... Don't worry I'm not thinking of starving myself or anyone else. A relative of mine has decided to stop eating and taking her medications because she wants to take control of her remaining life.


If she stops meds and foods but still takes water the water will prolong the dying process and chances are she will get sick with pneumonia within a short time. Her lungs will fill with fluids and she may feel like she is slowly drowning and choking, which is distressful and may be painful. In fasting to a comfortable death it is recommended that the person takes no fluids  or foods and be allowed to dehydrate since it is less painful for them and they will die faster. Pain relieving meds are still recommended to assist the dying process during starvation.

Here is a link to an article entitled "Fasting to a comfortable death" - read the whole article, it will explain things to you better http://www.globalideasbank.org/creend/CRE-13.HTML and here is a very short quote from that article:



> http://www.globalideasbank.org/creend/CRE-13.HTML
> 
> *'The only method at the present time in which all sides in the "right to die" debate may reach common agreement under the law'*
> 
> As death from lack of nutrition alone is a potentially very lengthy process, a combination of ceasing nutrition and hydration by some method is likely to be a preferred course. This area undoubtedly needs much more research. While a peaceful death by this method seems feasible in some instances, without particularized medical advice and medical backup, and/or until more is known about the process of self-deliverance through fasting, an isolated individual acting alone would appear to have greater assurance of success by means of drugs. Abstinence from food and drink as a means of accelerating death does however have the distinction of being the only method at the present time in which all sides in the 'right to die' debate may reach common agreement under the law.


I pray for your relative to have a peaceful death and God bless her.
.


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## culpeper (Nov 1, 2002)

I strongly suspect that at some point, some so-called 'caring' professional will intervene and put your relative onto a drip and artificially feed her. She will be weak enough not to be able to resist. This will prolong the dying process for her and could be very distressing when she realises what they've done. 

I sincerely hope they won't do it. She has chosen her way, and that should be respected. From the accepting tone of your posts, I'd say she has very good reasons for doing what she's doing. 

I hope she will be permitted to die in peace and that she doesn't suffer the indignity of being artificially kept alive for the peace of mind of somebody else.

Be kind to her, and be there for her. Hold her hand to help her through, and respect her courage and her decision. 

At this early stage, perhaps you should suggest, if she hasn't already done so, that she seek legal assistance to sign any paperwork which spells out with precision what she wants. Without it, she may get just the opposite.


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## fishhead (Jul 19, 2006)

Thanks for the info.

She has a living will that prohibits them from forcing an IV and if they do it anyway I will remove it myself.

I was under the impression that dehydration was worse then starvation. I'll tell her that I was wrong tonight.


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## comfortablynumb (Nov 18, 2003)

there are several good boks on the subject such as "final exit" and 'how we die", which is hard to read but its VERY good on the subject you are asking about.

he problem for others comes when the person is to feeble to have done it themselves, and onthers get charged with homicide.

like I said... If I can still walk, theres a tall bridge in WV ive been meaning to visit.


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## marvella (Oct 12, 2003)

fishhead said:


> Thanks for the info.
> 
> She has a living will that prohibits them from forcing an IV and if they do it anyway I will remove it myself.
> 
> I was under the impression that dehydration was worse then starvation. I'll tell her that I was wrong tonight.


naturelover said what i would have if i had gotten here sooner.

if she has a living will, the cannot start an IV if she tells them not to. just make sure all the paper work is in order, just in case it is challenged at some point. she needs to be very specific about what she wants and doesn't want.

i can't say i blame the person. here are prayers for the peace she is seeking.


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## LFRJ (Dec 1, 2006)

Hey Fishhead. Sorry you are facing this challenge. 

I don't know if you've heard of the Hemlock society, but it is an organization dedicated to this issue. You can find them on the web along with pertinent info. 
During the eighties, I worked with many victims of AIDS as a peer counselor. It was a rough go. We were well educated and made aware of the Hemlock society as part of our training. 

I'm not advocating their philosphies, but it is a helpful resource for some.


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## greenboy (Sep 5, 2005)

for what Iam reading I think the only think you may do is to pray, do you have a prayer group. Does she knows the Lord, I think a good pastor should talk to her, I dont know but she doesn't sound Christian, You should contact some good older Christian woman, Menonite or Baptist is my advise to go and talk to her on regular basis. It sounds to me she needs the Lord. When you know Him you know every minute on this earth has a porpose and He put you here for something. I am going to pray for you and for you to make the right decision.



fishhead said:


> Don't worry I'm not thinking of starving myself or anyone else. A relative of mine has decided to stop eating and taking her medications because she wants to take control of her remaining life.


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## Terri (May 10, 2002)

Fish head, my Grandmother decided on this and I HATED it! But, I understood her decision. 

She had a problem swallowing, and she decided against having a tube sugically put in. Shw was alert and oriented and this was her decision. She passed quickly because she was not drinking.

I'm sorry.


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## Karen (Apr 17, 2002)

donsgal said:


> I wouldn't think so. At first the person may feel some hunger, at some point they may feel very hungry. But eventually, the body will kick into "peaceful death mode" and there will be no discomfort. In fact, they will probably feel rather happy and euphoric and very good right before they die. I have read many places where, if you are not drugged out of your mind, that this happens.
> 
> donsgal


Nope, not true at all. Being through several cancer deaths with our family members, we've researched, learned, as well as experienced it in all forms, the REAL truth.

Withholding water is a terrible death and painful. Our bodies are approx. 60% water and when the body has used up all the water it can from our system it hurts bad (well, actually begins hurting within a very short amount of time). Consider this; the water in our bodies is not only to hydrate us, but also do the following: lubricate joints and eye sockets; cushion and act as shock absorbers for the spinal cord; & adjusts our body temperature. 

High fever sets in that medication cannot alleviate, your back and all joints hurt terribly, your eye pop forward from your eye sockets, your skin, tongue, and lips crack and bleed; your nose bleeds from the mucous membrane drying out; your urinary/bowel tract convulses since the body has no means of cleaning itself (sever stomach cramping); etc. Most people die from the fever rather than from the actual loss of fluids. *Not* a humane way of bringing about death; especially when you consider it can take between 10-14 for death. 

Withholding food isn't a whole lot better and *IS painful*. After about 3 days, your body has used your stored fat and begins to actually eat itself by consuming your muscles. After a couple of more days, your hair begins to fall out; you experience hallucinations (since certain parts of the brain require glucose only); your stomach and tongue swells; you have terrible headaches; you cramp terribly all over. Another very inhumane way to go and this goes on for 30 days or more. 

No one, not anyone, is without severe pain and terrible terrible discomfort! They simply are not able to communicate how they really feel. Most of the time they are unconscious (which doesn't mean they don't still "feel" the pain, or morphine blocks their ability to communicate (even morphine doesn't block the pain -- ever had morphine after a surgery; it only helps with pain, it doesn't block it). Just because someone appears to fine doesn't mean they are.

PLEASE, before doing this to a loved one, please just stop for a moment and actually consider that this is not nature's way of dealing with death and not natural. Being an unnatural approach, it is not going to be a painless nor a humane way to go. 

In fact, a person would be better off is you just tied a plastic bag over their head -- _withheld air_. It's faster and doesn't hurt. Yet, of course, we would never consider doing such a terrible thing; and yet, it would be a more humane way than the "acceptable" withholding of food and/or water. Go figure! :shrug: 

Generally, when death is near for someone with a terminal illness, it is best (and natural) to just allow the disease to run it's course. As much as a person is in pain, allowing that pain and keeping them as comfortable as possible (even with drugs if they choose; although there are lots of herbs that can also help), allows death to come to the body naturally. If you think about it, adding more stress and pain to the body, on top of the stress and pain from the disease, doesn't even make sense, and is the part that is terribly inhumane and not helping the person at all.


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## Terri (May 10, 2002)

I don't think they were talking about WITHHOLDING food or water, that would be horrible. But, some people refuse to eat or drink.


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## fishhead (Jul 19, 2006)

This is a terrible thing to watch. If I could I would make all the people who spout the sanctity of life crap to watch as their loved one slowly wastes away. Let them watch their loved one lie there with her mouth open slowly breathing long hard breaths, eyes slightly open but not seeing.

It would be more humane to gather the family around while the person is still fairly lucid and able to talk, say goodbye and take an overdose.

I just did that with my dog. I held his head and apologized for failing him as his head grew heavy in my hand. Believe me it was much better for him and for me.

Hopefully today will be her last.


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## jen74145 (Oct 31, 2006)

fishhead said:


> It would be more humane to gather the family around while the person is still fairly lucid and able to talk, say goodbye and take an overdose.
> 
> I just did that with my dog. I held his head and apologized for failing him as his head grew heavy in my hand. Believe me it was much better for him and for me.


I agree with you, and I am so sorry you're all going through this. We fight to extend our lives with drugs and treatments so much that when the end does come, it has about zero chance of being natural.  I'm just so sorry...


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## fishhead (Jul 19, 2006)

Mom died this evening.


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## pancho (Oct 23, 2006)

fishhead said:


> Is it painful?


I will explain my experience.

I lived on goats milk for over 4 months, nothing else. After the first few days you do not feel hungry but the first few days are rough. After a few months the stomach forgets how to handle solid food. My first meal was cornbread. I thought I would die from stomach cramping.
There was no pain involved but I didn't come close to dying.


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## Yvonne (Jan 29, 2003)

I'm so sorry. May you find peace in the fact you were strong enough to follow her last wishes.

I agree that we can treat our pets better than our loved ones.


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## GrannyCarol (Mar 23, 2005)

fishhead said:


> Mom died this evening.


I don't really have anything to offer except my condolences. It's very hard to lose your mother. Mine died quite a few years back and we were very close. It was rough. However, today I am at peace, so I want to encourage you that it is possible.


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## stars01 (Jun 24, 2006)

I'm so very sorry for your loss.

Paula


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## Cntrygrl (Sep 8, 2007)

I am so sorry for your loss. May God touch your soul with the peace and comfort only He can provide.


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## Karen (Apr 17, 2002)

I'm so sorry for loss. I lost my mother that way (to lung cancer), so I know how heart wrenching it can be. There are indeed times when death is a blessing.


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## Charleen (May 12, 2002)

I'm sorry for your loss.


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## Ark (Oct 5, 2004)

I'm sorry you've had such a rough time of it. Your mom was blessed to have you!


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## naturelover (Jun 6, 2006)

fishhead said:


> Mom died this evening.


Fishhead I'm so sorry for your loss and that you had to witness your mom passing this way. She was a courageous woman and blessed to have you at her side throughout her ordeal. I hope you can take some comfort in knowing that her spirit now soars free. God bless your mom, God bless you.
.


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## Saffy (May 18, 2007)

I lost my mother in a similar fashion 4 years ago. It was the hardest thing I ever had to do but the one I was the proudest of. I staid my own fear of watching a loved one die and was at her side when she past. May god watch over her now, Hugs coming your way, even if your a stranger to me. 
A poem for my mother. 

The Journey of our lives: Circles of Life.

Just mother & I; together on a cold February night;
How can I thank you for the journey of my life;
You bought me into this world, and cared so much for me
You brought a lot of joy, and happiness to me. 
You took the time to watch, your only child grow
But mother, I donât know how toâ¦
stand-alone.

So as I sit beside you; singing childhood songs to you;
Remember that I love you; and what I say is true;
I donât know if you can hear, you can only blink your eyes,
Iâm trying my dam hardest, not to let you see me cry.
But the tears are as a river, flowing by and by;
I donât know how to watch, my only mother die.
I know its time for you to leave; death is coming soon
But my love will never leave; I promise this to you.

Before you continue on, the journey of your life;
I know I can not follow; just stay with you thru the night;
I Sing the songs of childhood; and hope that you can hear;
Hoping to give you love, & comfort; as death comes very near;
You begin a solo journey now; to complete the circle of your life.
I know I can not follow; just stay with you thru the night

Just before you left, you spoke once more to me,
I heard in your dying whisper, my name Shirley.
As you were here with me, when you brought me into this world,
I was there with you, when it was your time to leave your little girl,
You are now on your solo journey, into the heavens above
May your spirit soar high & free; on the wings of a dove
When you reach your journeys end, in the circle of your life;
May you find comfort and solace within this cold February night.

Remember to save a place for me, for I know I will see you again
When I reach the end of my circle, and come to my journeys end
Weâll be reunited and Iâll be able to see you once again,
But during the wait, May God bless and watch over you forever, amend
And mother I thank you for giving me the strength, to yes, Stand alone. 

Shirley


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## PineRidge (May 2, 2006)

FishHead, I'm so sorry.


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## cider (Nov 13, 2004)

Aw Fishhead, God bless you. I went that path with my Mom. It's hard.


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## Coco (Jun 8, 2007)

sorry to hear but rejoce in what she wanted. I work with the elderly as a RN , it takes months with no food but a short time with no fluids. Once they stop drinking their bodies will shut down, it's not as bad as one would imagine but many that are ill and lying in bed don't have a thirst or a want for foods. BUt they still need someone to swab their mouth with water and or glycerine to keep it moist as in the last days they will mouth breath, as far as I know and I have been with so many that left this life, it's not painfull to die this way, just scarry for those going though it. I sing to my patients , just to let them know your still here with us, and that we are with them when they move to the other life we all hope for.


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## Aintlifegrand (Jun 3, 2005)

Saffy said:


> I lost my mother in a similar fashion 4 years ago. It was the hardest thing I ever had to do but the one I was the proudest of. I staid my own fear of watching a loved one die and was at her side when she past. May god watch over her now, Hugs coming your way, even if your a stranger to me.
> A poem for my mother.
> 
> The Journey of our lives: Circles of Life.
> ...


What a beautiful poem and tribute Shirley...

I am deeply sorry for your loss Fishhead...I hope you will soon find peace in knowing you were there for your mother...


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## Sher (May 10, 2002)

Fishhead, I am sorry for the loss of your mom. My Dad chose to do this too. He was good with the decision, so how could we not be?

Take solice in the fact that Jesus overcame and defeated death. He did that for us. For your mom.

May the Lord bless and keep you and yours during this tough time.


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## greenboy (Sep 5, 2005)

My mother is bedridden and her brain is practically off, for the last three years, is very hard to deal with this, very hard. Some times I think like she is already dead and that helps me. But those situations are very very hard I don't have words to explain, and the only thing I can say is I am sorry you are going to be sad for a while, dont be sad forde yourself to be happier. But in everything is a purpose, even when we don't understand. Pray and pray somemore. God Bless


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## luvrulz (Feb 3, 2005)

You were there to do her wishes and to share some tender moments with your mom. Know that she's at peace and out of pain. May your memories help your through these days,

So sorry for your loss.......


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## roncarla (Oct 17, 2002)

I, too, am sorry for your loss. May God bless you during your time of suffering.


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