# New Goat Owner: Good Udder vs. Bad Udder



## volchitsa (Jul 18, 2011)

How can you tell a good udder from a bad udder? I want to get a very young doe so I'm guessing I look at the mothers and paternal grandmothers udders? What else should I ask about when choosing a milk doe?
Could you guys post pictures of good udders and bad udders please? Also, good does and bad does (like conformation and such).
Thank you all very much !


----------



## Alice In TX/MO (May 10, 2002)

Good udders:


















Also look at:
snowbird.html

Bad udder:


----------



## Alice In TX/MO (May 10, 2002)

Link to previous discussion with one more badly attached udder pic:
http://www.homesteadingtoday.com/goats/326050-bad-udder-discussion-thread.html


----------



## Alice In TX/MO (May 10, 2002)

Attachments illustrated and explained:
Choosing a Good Dairy Goat - Chaverah Farm Nigerian Dwarf Goats


----------



## Natural Beauty Farm (Feb 17, 2003)

Good links there.

Right clicking will enlarge photos so you can see them better.


----------



## Creamers (Aug 3, 2010)

lol! Alice - that poor doe!!!!


----------



## Alice In TX/MO (May 10, 2002)

She was a registered Alpine that I bought one winter when desperate for milk. All her kids were put down or banded. She's featured on one of the EZ Milker's ads, too. 

No suspensory ligaments at all, and the inside of her udder didn't hold the mammary tissue in place. It fell into her teats. Just a mess. Still, she got us through that winter and another freshening. Then, she went to freezer camp. She makes a good "do not buy this" photo feature!!


----------



## volchitsa (Jul 18, 2011)

Thanks. And ouch! That bad udder looks painful :O! 

So the 'udder attachment' is where the skin of the udder meets the skin of the legs, and a good udder attachment is when..?
So much to learn lol


----------



## Alice In TX/MO (May 10, 2002)

The good udder looks like a volleyball or basketball that is embedded in the underneath side of the doe, between her back legs. The attachments hold it up firmly and there is little space to (for example) slide one's hand between the upper part of the udder and the upper thigh.

It takes a while to learn to "see" it.


----------



## Hollowdweller (Jul 13, 2011)

Remember not all beautiful udders are created equal.

While there are beautiful udders that milk, there is somewhat of an slight inverse relationship between beautiful udder and milk production.


Also there is an ergonomic aspect that may differer between milkers. A goat can have orificies so tight that even with the beautiful udder she is a pain to milk. Or her teat size or placement may not suit your hands.

So if you can actually see the animals related you can check those out too.:thumb:


----------



## saanengirl (Apr 7, 2009)

Hollowdweller said:


> Remember not all beautiful udders are created equal.
> 
> While there are beautiful udders that milk, there is somewhat of an slight inverse relationship between beautiful udder and milk production.


There doesn't have to be an inverse relationship between beauty and productivity. Many top ten milkers have E mammaries.


----------



## copperpennykids (Sep 6, 2004)

saanengirl said:


> There doesn't have to be an inverse relationship between beauty and productivity. Many top ten milkers have E mammaries.


Like this:










This is Whey-to-Go Tabbitina. She produced over 4000#s of milk on this particular lactation. Do you want to see her foreudder too? LOL


----------



## Hollowdweller (Jul 13, 2011)

saanengirl said:


> There doesn't have to be an inverse relationship between beauty and productivity. Many top ten milkers have E mammaries.


Saanengirl,

Because a Top 10 milker has an E mammary that doesn't mean there is not an inverse relationship between type and milk.

In the saanen world at one point there were only 2 saanen bucks that had BOTH positive PTA's for type and milk. Those two were Lake Country Sno Creta Caesar and Singing Spruce Valiant.

Now there are many still if you go to Genetics Home and pull out the top 5 bucks by % ile only 1 buck has a Positive PTA for Type.

If you pick the top 5 bucks pta for type in the saanen world only 2 have positive PTA's for milk.

So while I agree that there are examples of top 10 does with E udders if you focus on milk your LA scores will be lower than if you focus on type.


----------



## Hollowdweller (Jul 13, 2011)

copperpennykids said:


> Like this:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I'm not talking about individuals. I'm talking statistically.


----------



## saanengirl (Apr 7, 2009)

Hollowdweller said:


> Saanengirl,
> 
> Because a Top 10 milker has an E mammary that doesn't mean there is not an inverse relationship between type and milk.
> 
> ...


I just looked at the PTI/ETA search, and every Saanen buck on the first page with positive PTIs for milk also had positive PTIs for type...


----------



## Hollowdweller (Jul 13, 2011)

saanengirl said:


> I just looked at the PTI/ETA search, and every Saanen buck on the first page with positive PTIs for milk also had positive PTIs for type...


PTI's are based on a combination of type and production. 

So if you have a goat with a huge Pta for production and a negative one for type when averaged together even the 1:2 could be positive.

To judge you have to use the PTA's not the PTI's.


Heavenly Poor Farm Prime Rate

His PTA for milk is +230 His PTA for type is -.2 So he's highly positive for milk but negative for type. Yet even is 1:2PTI is positive because it's an average.


PS love your doe *SGCH Wild Garden Warlord Titania*


----------

