# Shaver Outdoor Wood Boiler



## tarbe (Apr 7, 2007)

I have been looking at wood boilers for a possible future hydronic heating system for our yet-to-be-built retirement place in MO.

I came across the Shaver units, and they happen to be built in Salem, AR - not too far from our place. 

Anyone here have any feedback on them?


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## mike554 (Jun 9, 2012)

I don't know anything about Shaver but I sure am loving my Hardy.


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## agmantoo (May 23, 2003)

tarbe
I have installed probably 10 wood boilers. from digging the trench for the plumbing to making the controls that make a wood boiler work and interface with the alternate heat source. One was for myself and the rest for friends, family and neighbors and money. I have worked on many more mostly for free and pleading owners. IMO they cost more than they are worth. They definitely are not problem free and they have maintenance issues. Over time the biggest fault is a leak between the firebox and the water storage. Some of these leaks can be accessed and repaired where other leak repairs aren't justifiable. Current prices exceed what I paid for my geothermal heat pump and I get both heat and cool that is efficient, clean and economical. What thousands of dollars bought as a wood boiler will bring a few dollars as scrap. The longest that I have known a wood boiler to last without a major repair is 18 years. It was the exception. I do not consider pumps, transformers, solenoids and warped door replacements as major. If you plan on having close neighbors they will not like the emissions, smoke and stink, from the unit. If you go away from home for more than a couple of days you will have to have an alternate heating system or get someone to attend to the unit. If you feel compelled to have a wood boiler do some research on a Tarm brand.


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## Ross (May 9, 2002)

I've installed 4 stainless steel Empyre boilers, and have been very happy with them. Look for Wifo Star circ pumps. These are just your basic wood burners nothing fancy. Heard lots of complaints about gasifiers though.


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## Jim-mi (May 15, 2002)

That name / brand is not available around here....

A customer / friend installed a outdoor wood burner at his off grid place..
I warned him that it was going to take / use more electric than he realized.
It had 5 pumps ---different zones---
Sure enough he found that he had to run his screaming 3600 rpm generator far far more often. 

. ."But the wood is free" . . . .that was ok for a short while until he found out all the labor involved . . .
Then he paid a big buck to have a load of wood hauled in . . . .


Have you stopped to consider what you will do for electric power, to make the wood burner work, if / when the grid goes down . . . ???

I have been considering a wood pellet stove / heater . . .but I am gun shy about the amount of electric needed to start the darn thing--500 watt glo bar-- and the constant auger and fans to keep it running..........


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## tarbe (Apr 7, 2007)

Jim-mi said:


> Have you stopped to consider what you will do for electric power, to make the wood burner work, if / when the grid goes down . . . ???



Our property is off-grid.


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## tarbe (Apr 7, 2007)

Not much love for the boilers?

Reading the Shaver site and all their talk about the .4" thick boiler plate and 25 year life expectancy....is it all hype? They do not like the stainless due to the cracking issue in a heated application. More hype?

The boiler/hydronic heat seemed like a good choice for an off-grid application in a rather mild (southern MO) application. I would have propane back-up.

If not an outside boiler, what better to do if we stay off-grid?


Tim


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## tarbe (Apr 7, 2007)

Much of the stuff regarding boilers at the linked site is old....but still interesting.

A Dialogue With Our Visitors About Outdoor Boilers


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## Jim-mi (May 15, 2002)

. . "What better to do . . . ""

A really good wood stove. . . .If you have a wood lot

Warmth, cooking, hot water, without the need for electric.

All those guys claim . ."Ours is better than the competition" . . . . . .who knows....


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## mike554 (Jun 9, 2012)

My Hardy hasn't raised my KWH average much at all. I used about 20 kwh more in Nov than I did in Oct before I had my stove going. Part of that too is my circulator pump for my zones. I know 20 kwh is still a big deal when you are off grid.


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## tarbe (Apr 7, 2007)

Jim-mi said:


> . . "What better to do . . . ""
> 
> A really good wood stove. . . .If you have a wood lot
> 
> ...




I have 85 acres of woods....so I have the wood thing covered!

I heated a 3,000 square foot house in northern MS with an Ashley in the basement. Air plenum hooked into the central system.

I really wanted to avoid ducts and blowing air. 

Maybe I am coming full circle back to a centrally located masonry heater?


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## tarbe (Apr 7, 2007)

One of the scenarios that boilers seem to come into their own in is when you have multiple buildings to heat...just a matter of running the hot water to the second location and providing for heat transfer.

I should say that I am really only planning to heat a house...so maybe that makes the outdoor boiler less sensible?


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## Jim-mi (May 15, 2002)

Done right a monster Russian masonry heater is hard to beat.........

Lots of thinking as to your source of electric to power that outdoor boiler . ???
(if your off grid)


back to my above post . . . .this guy would shut down his screaming (Coleman) generator at bed time . . . . . and those 5 zone pumps of course kept going, . . . .He was abusing badly his battery bank......


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## tarbe (Apr 7, 2007)

Jim-mi said:


> Done right a monster Russian masonry heater is hard to beat.........
> 
> Lots of thinking as to your source of electric to power that outdoor boiler . ???
> (if your off grid)
> ...


You know better than I, that many off-grid solar set-ups are undersized. People forget that in order to get adequate "free" electricity, you gotta spend money! :trollface

I have several books on masonry heater history, design and use. I really like the idea....but my concern comes in when I consider that my wife is going to want more than just a small house, and I worry about comfort in far-flung reaches. Maybe a second, smaller (more responsive) stove?

I suppose I could just have a small propane heater in the 3 or 4 rooms distant from the masonry heater, plumbed off the main propane tank used to supply the cookstove, hwh, etc.

Good thing I started thinking about this way ahead of time. I have already changed my mind 3 times on primary heat system. :shrug: 

Thanks for the feedback!


Tim


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## Jim-mi (May 15, 2002)

People tend to max out what that (for instance) 100 watt PV panel can do..
They forget that there is 19+- hours left in the day.
And that there is cloudy / rain days 

Yes they expect wonderful things from badly undersized systems . . . . .
And then comes the line . . "But that will cost more money".....................

I haven't had personal experience with a good Russian stove but I guess those that have them, love them.
A back up propane heat scorce is a very good idea . . . . .and they would not need electric for blowers etc.........


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## wendle (Feb 22, 2006)

Not sure about that particular brand, but I love my old 20+ year old Hardy. You might check and see if it will also heat your tap water. A friend of mine spent 6,000.00 to have an outdoor boiler installed, and doesn't heat his water, or automatically refill water loss levels. Cost? If you don't mind a little work you can install one yourself. I found my used Hardy for 500.00 and did all the plumbing to heat the house and water. Pex pipe makes everything somewhat easy. If you want to go with solar water heat in the summer, a boiler can use some of the same plumbing.


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## AtomicFarmer (Sep 16, 2012)

I have a Hardy H5. It uses A LOT of wood but I love it. Smoke is definately an issue with this kind of furnace if you have neighbors, which I do not. It cut waaay back on my heating expenses, but I did have to make some one time purchases that were expensive-namely a Stihl chainsaw (I wore out a cheap Poulan WalMart gas chainsaw in the first season) and a logsplitter. They don't smoke constantly-just during a burn cycle that happens every few hours.


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## kycrawler (Sep 18, 2011)

Our new house is going to be off grid I have a hardy h2 at my current on grid house the blower fan for the stove draws 54 watts when running a stock taco 007 pump draws 58watts i intend to run the stock blower fan and 2 grundfoss alpha circulating pumps at the new place the grundfoss pumps draw 7 watts each .

My stove now with 20-30 deg outside temps draws 800 watts per day on a kill a watt meter running the less efficent taco pump 

Running a hardy stove on a modest solar system is entirely do-able I do not want the dirt and junk inside the house and unlimited hot water sure is nice


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