# Can we talk about "small" guard dogs...



## motdaugrnds

I have two large dogs that do a very good job of letting me know if there is any intruder (4-legged and/or 2-legged) near the parameter of my 6 acres. One is doing an excellent job of guarding my goats as well as the fowl that stay in the pasture with them.

Since I now live alone, I am considering getting a small dog that I can keep in the house with me, especially at night. I want one that will not bark excessively and can be very serious if it ever needs to confront an intruder.

I've been googling "small guard dogs" and found quite a few that sound pretty good though most seem to want to bark more than growl. I would greatly appreciate hearing from anyone who has a small guard dog. (The "house" dog I get must not have a prey drive because periodically it would be outdoors with me and one of the dogs I have now would not permit anything chasing her charges.)


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## CAjerseychick

Hmmm something guardy (for you not livestock) will usu have a fair amount of prey drive... An airedale maybe (its all doable, I coexist with a giant schnauzer who is an outdoor dog when we are home on the "farm" and wants to kill things in the worst way)- how small is small? a female doberman or boxer can weigh in as little as 50 or 60 lbs....Staffy bull maybe those are in the 40lb range (I think)...


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## CAjerseychick

We had both an airedale and boxers- good guards and workable , much easier to train off of prey than our current schnauzer- both our girls were waaaay larger than breed standards though -the airedale was from "hunting lines" and was about 80lbs, boxer was a german bred gal, and about 75 kbs...

I think a standard schnauzer would be great and they are also in the 40 lb range, if you got a female.... you would have to work on shaping around prey drive, but they started out on farms so it should be doable....


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## hercsmama

I have a pair of Pekingese for my house dogs, and a pair of Pyrs out in the pastures.
My Pekes are very good at guarding the house, they let me know if someone pulls up in the drive, and both of them sleep in my room at night, and will growl, if they hear anything odd. Pekes do have some prey drive, but mine aren't allowed out in the pastures, so for me this isn't an issue. they are a terror to possums, and racoons though....
They weigh about 20 pounds a piece, most likely would be rather ineffective in a real confrontation, but they are a great warning system, and my .357 will take care of the rest....


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## motdaugrnds

I was looking at the Pekingese but don't care for all that hair. Still, they are the size I'm considering. I was also looking at Yorkies as they "sound" like they would attack if the need arose.

I do know such "house" dogs would have pray drives; however, I've had German Shepherds, Labradores and "mixes" that, also, had prey drives. It does take work, but that drive can be curtailed. (I would probably need to keep this small dog with the prey drive on a leash when it is outdoors. I am guessing it might take quite a long time before that leash could be taken off outdoors.)

I'm thinking (like I did with my German Shepherd) that, if I get a just-weaned puppy, introduce it to my Karakachan who guards the goats/fowl and does not have a prey-drive, this small dog could learn like my German Shepherd did. (I actually got to where I could attach the leash on the GS to my "mix" Apache, who would not let her chase anything.)

I'm leaning toward the Yorkies; however, the only ones I've found in this area cost $1000-1200.


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## Maura

What&#8217;s the likelihood anyone is going to get past Valentina?

If you want an alarm, any little dog that barks will do. Choose a breed and go to rescue.

If you want a dog whose bite would be a deterrent, a small mix that has GSD may do the trick. Again, rescue.


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## motdaugrnds

Well, it is unlikely any "stranger" (4 legged and/or 2 legged) would get past either Valentina or Cujo; and I may just be being paranoid. However, with all that has occurred on my place the last few months, I want to prepare for the worse. (If my outside dogs were shot or poisoned, my inside dog would still be available to alert me to danger.)

I could certainly get a "rescue" and may be able to find a baby; so I will look as I'm not at all opposed to getting one of these dogs.

[I remember when first moving onto this homestead back in 1995 a stranger came to talk and with him was a little dog about 10 lbs sitting behind his neck in the truck. I believe he told me it was a "terrior" of sorts. He told me of an incident that had occurred to him awhile back when his large bull had gotten loose and, in the process of attempting to coral that bull, got caught by the bull. This man was being tossed all over the place. Then here came this little 10 lb dog biting at the heels of that hugh bull. The little dog kept biting until that bull started running off, even crossing a small creek bed. This little dog climbed onto a log over that creek bed and growled and barked at that bull to make sure it knew to stay on its own side. I'll probably never forget that story; so I know the size of a dog does not always mean it cannot be of help in times of need.]


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## CAjerseychick

oh if you want truly small (yorkie size) you could go with a mini schnuazer--I would suggest that the 8-10 lb range is just alittle more durable than a 2 lb yorkie.... scrappy is terrier all the way- and, there are plenty in rescue!

Other scrappy little dog breeds- Jack russell, Cairn terrier, welsh terrier, Norwich and Norfolk terriers, Australian terrier- these are all the little terrier breeds.... they dont quite have the look of the Yorkie, though ...


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## Maura

Okay, so you may want a dog that is not friends with your ex. As CA wrote, any of the terrors, er, terriers will make a great display and will bite if provoked. Only thing, a breed with a pushed in face has a harder time making contact. The Bostons we foster are great for not letting go, but their jaws aren&#8217;t as adept at making good contact if you get one with a typical muzzle.

A yorkie has a fuzzy coat. You have to comb them out often and some people even bathe them once a week. Most of the other terriers have &#8216;terrier&#8217; coat and are wash and wear. My choice would be a cairn. Any of them would have to be trained to leave the livestock alone.


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## motdaugrnds

Yes, I think I may be thinking of taking on more than I can handle. I googled the Cairn Terrier and the size is exactly what I'm focusing on. It's temperament sounds a lot like Valentina's and I sure would hate to have to separate those two in a fight.

Maybe I should just get another "outside" dog, one new to the place. Still, in my new situation, I'm needing a security blanket inside the house and this 37 Glock is not only cold. It won't wake me up either.


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## Wendy

Let me tell you, I have a 4.4 lb Chihuahua that will eat anyone that comes in the house!  Seriously, she is the best watchdog & very protective of the kids. I have to put her in her kennel when someone is here until they have been here for awhile. I really think she'd try to eat them!


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## doozie

I too have a chihuahua, he shows no prey drive,in my case squirrels or birds in the yard, but will let us know if anything is out of place here. He puts on a good show, acts fearless, but wouldn't bite a thing. He is most possibly a mix, and is a very sturdy little dog.


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## motdaugrnds

A chihuahua without a prey drive? Golly, if only it had hair!


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## Barnbum374

We found our little indoor guard dog. Someone dumped her on the road that leads to our ranch. This is how we get most of our dogs. Wish I knew what kind of mix she is, she is exactly the kind of dog you described. 
View attachment 27002


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## CAjerseychick

Maybe get a male cairn terrier? the opposite gender thing should work for Valentina, it just depends how Cujo is-- we got our 3rd dog - male pup cause of this and our 2 yr old male is very mellow and gets along fine with him (we were concerned re: our lead dog, the dominant female schnauzer- she loves having males to boss around)...


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## paradox

Yorkie's are fragile so no matter how bravely they might run in to "attack" as you say - it won't take much of a kick to completely incapacitate them. You need something with a bit more sturdy body type and a "no giving in" attitude. I would lean toward a stocky Terrier (Jack Russell), Schipperke, or Bulldog of some type. That type of body construction can take a kick or two and still get back in the fight.


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## akane

This is one case I'd actually go looking for a mutt to rescue. All the characteristics you are talking about are either in many many breeds or require training of any breed. I can't think of a purebred that would guarantee what you want anymore than a small breed cross. We had a border collie x some type of terrier cross that probably would have been perfect for that. Prey drive is fine provided there's at least a little guarding instinct with it. You can use the guarding instinct to direct the prey drive away from your animals and on to other animals and people. That's how I trained my akita to mostly be safe around animals. If she's never seen it before she does go to investigate and may injure it in the process. I have to make sure to point out to her everything that's new.

Our shiba is about right for a house dog. 20lbs is about the show limit but ours is 30. Her lines run a little large. They were used for boar hunting so they have crazy prey drives and a reckless nature even with them being bred for show and companion animals instead of hunting the past 30years or so. They will alert you to house intruders and often things just outside but they don't have enough property guarding instinct to be confident you can train them off attacking animals outside. They generally need leashed or confined their entire life. Personality of pet store or puppy mill shibas also varies greatly from show animals and amongst those the personality varies a lot between american bred and imported dogs from japan. It's being argued to split all the japanese spitz breeds in to american version and japanese version because of the different breeding goals. Many other countries have already done so, especially with the akita.


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## CAjerseychick

True there are tons of scrappy little terrier mixes in rescue/ shelters, maybe have a look see first, but get a male for Valentinas sake...


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## motdaugrnds

All great information and I thank you for taking the time to talk with me about this. 

I will look at rescue dogs and I will, of course, take Valentina into consideration; however, there is noway I'm ever going to breed Valentina. Next year when she turns 2 yrs old, I'm having her spayed. (This year I'm having Cujo spayed.) Any pup I get as my house dog will be spayed as soon as it is healthy for the breed.

In my searches, I'm coming to the same conclusion some of you have, i.e. some of the smaller dogs could be very easily hurt. So I'm now leaning more toward the stockier built ones.

I googled the *Schipperke *and there is something about the look in their eyes that I am uncomfortable with. I suspect such a dog might cause problems on my 6 acres that I would not be able to cope with; and if I did not cope well with it, Valentina and Cujo would!

I like the Jack Russell. Just not sure how it would get along with my Karakachan and Lab should it want to play with the goats and/or fowl. (Wondering if I could truly curtail this dog's need to chase.)


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## Squeaky McMurdo

My Jack Russell is best friends with a few of my goats and enjoys sleeping in the sun while my chickens run all over her. Even sits there looking pathetic if they decide her tick marks look edible. I was concerned she would want to eat my ferrets but we got her as a young puppy so she learned what was expected of her early.

She revels in acting vicious toward anyone that stomps and barks back at her. She thinks it's a game. I doubt she will ever bite anyone but her bark is pretty scary sounding sometimes.


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## motdaugrnds

Thanks for sharing Squeaky. I do like the looks of the Jack Russell.

I'm also thinking maybe a 50' training leash would work well to help me curtail this pup's prey drive while she got acquainted with all the animals here and learned what was ok and not ok to do.


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## aart

I think with your experience and aptitude with dogs just about any mixed mutt would fit the bill and that having a companion/alarm pup in the house would be of great comfort to you.

I suggest that go to the rescues/pounds and just look, you'll know when you look in the right dogs eye. Size is factor but temperament is key. I've found in the last 20 years the 3 dogs I've owned have 'come to me' when I needed them.

Best of luck to you...can't wait to see what finds you.


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## alsarve

Schipperke...oh my! Definite prey drive and independent, wandering mind set. My old boss had one and I really liked him, extremely intelligent but oh so bad! Terrible puppy until the age of 3. Also wanting to challenge larger dogs. And I know that look u talk about lol


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## backwoods

Why not get a german shepherd and keep it inside? I had one for years living in an apartment when I was young & single. He was very well behaved, and was super protective of me. When the burglar (who lived next door) tried to break in on me at 2:00 a.m. he bolted down the stairs and leapt on the door, that had been pried open and only a "safety chain" was keeping the man from getting inside. I'm telling you, that dog was SCARY!!! He was ALL teeth & growl, and when I got there (with gun) I jerked the door open and the dog bolted outside, sniffed the ground, and walked right back over to the next door neighbor's door and started growling & barking ferociously. I knocked on their door, and the man wouldn't come outside!! I called the police who came & made a report & they arrested the guy about a week later, for 11 burglaries in the area. German shepherds take training, but you raise one the right way, and the only way anyone will get near you is to kill the dog first. When a stranger approached me, the dog instinctively stepped across in front of me so as to place itself between me and the stranger. It was never taught to do that either. If I lived alone and didn't have small children, I wouldn't even have to think about it...I'd have one.


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## motdaugrnds

Well, I certainly have always been fond of the German Shepherd. Many years ago I actually raised them. 

Still, I live in a trailer and, though I've house broken many a large breed dog (even a couple of goats), I am really looking forward to getting a smaller canine.

As soon as my phone is working again, I'm headed for the nearby rescue center(s) to see what is available. (As Aart mentioned above, I have no doubt some dog will choose me and I will not be able to resist....That is actually how I got my first Nubian goat. I went after a white one and this black one wouldn't leave me alone, always putting her head on my chest and looking up at me with those beautiful eyes.)


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## Maura

Each time I get a dog he&#8217;s a little smaller than the one before. I have a 40 pound border collie now, and the next dog will probably be a papillon as we are going into retirement and living in town. I&#8217;d like to be able to easily take my dog with me wherever I go. Purely practical, I like all dogs.

When I got my border collie I first considered a cairn terrier, but when we bought the acreage I got the border collie and sheep. I found that it was difficult to get a cairn from rescue simply because it&#8217;s so easy to rehome them that they do not end up in rescue. I think you may end up with a puppy mill dog if going to a rescue. That being said, it wouldn&#8217;t hurt to ask.


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## GrannyCarol

One of my grooming customers has Norfolk Terriers. Her ***** is a tough little thing that doesn't back down from anything. However, she did go after an Alpaca and bit it in the face so badly they had to put it down. She seems fine with people. Their male is the sweetest thing ever. 

The small to medium terrier mixes should be a great choice for a house dog with some attitude and tenacity.


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## Maura

I&#8217;m sure motdaugrnds will socialize her rugrat to the goats. My vote is still the cairn terrier.


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## Susan Mary

I have two which I purchase as puppies for house pets. Those two are the toughest n roughest little dogs. They go out on the pastures with me but are respectful of the horses. But when night comes and they comes inside they become the house watch dogs. These two are Boston. 8 and 9 do I knew what I was getting. To me you cant go wrong with a Boston. They have energy plus. Just my two cents


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## motdaugrnds

Goodness much of what I'm finding in all the internet research on small dogs is that they are all hyper....Are there any 20-30 lb dogs that could be good as a "house 'guard'" yet are not hyper?


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## CAjerseychick

motdaugrnds said:


> Goodness much of what I'm finding in all the internet research on small dogs is that they are all hyper....Are there any 20-30 lb dogs that could be good as a "house 'guard'" yet are not hyper?


Hmmm I dont find that true of all small dogs at all- and its dealable- not like the high energy of my giant schnauzer...


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## Muleman

I seen someone who kept a miniature mule in their house once. They bray at strange things and would definitely surprise an intruder???

Just saying, maybe think outside the box!!!!!


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## secuono

More of a training and raising issue than 'prey drive' thing. My doberman has high prey drive, but he grew up in the house and out with the livestock. The LGD taught him what was ok and what wasn't. But he isn't a personal guardian, didn't get that gene...
Our bulldog and mutt will bark at strangers on the property, but are friendly on leash and off the property. 
Maybe go to shelters and foster/adopt young dogs and try them out.


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## motdaugrnds

Thanks CAjerseychick, that is giving me hope.


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## GrannyCarol

I don't think small dogs are any more hyper than any other dog. Each breed has its characteristics and each individual does too. 

I have a 45 lb Collie that is from working bloodlines. She is high energy and a bit of work (just 2 yrs old), but she's turning into a wonderful pet. I have a 55 lb English Setter that is three, she is so laid back you wonder if she's breathing...  They are similar to one another in size, but opposite in temperament. My daughter has a collie that looks just like mine (smooth coated, tri color) that is very laid back and mellow. 

I have a friend with a Jack Russell that is very sweet and mellow, a great lap and housedog, others I am sure are more work. Most terrier breeds have a fair amount of energy, but they are smart and easily trained. They respond well to kindness, fairness and a bit of food. In general they can hold a grudge if poorly treated and rarely forget. That is my experience with terriers - I bred Silky Terriers for years and groom various terrier breeds. I love Airedales, more of a working temperament, very smart. The ones I've groomed have all been great pets, mellow, but not deadheads. Maybe a wee bit big, but a great choice for a watch dog. The show lines are smaller and more lightly built. Their coat is rough - coarse and easy to care for. That's one breed I'd kinda like to have at some time. 

Here is a list of AKC terriers, some of them might make a great choice for you: https://www.akc.org/breeds/terrier_group.cfm

Australian Terrier, Mini Bull Terrier, Irish Terrier, Airedale, Kerry Blue, Cairn, Soft Coated Wheaten, Welsh and West Highland White might be good choice. I'm thinking since your space is small you'll want the quieter breeds. The Silkys I had would certainly bark and possibly bite as well if they felt a need. They ran from 10 to 12 lbs, but were pretty athletic solid dogs. 

Just some thoughts!


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## Breezy833

I always wanted a staffordshire bull terrier as my small dog. Stocky build, low maintanace, nick named "the nanny dog"


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## motdaugrnds

I really like the stocky build on some of the terriers. They look alot like my lab, Cujo. Do these terriers drool like the labs do?


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## CAjerseychick

motdaugrnds said:


> I really like the stocky build on some of the terriers. They look alot like my lab, Cujo. Do these terriers drool like the labs do?


Never heard about terriers drooling (not like our Boxers, which again, I did not think was too bad), we have a giant schnauzer and in the past a Airedale (she was really mellow, despite coming from hunting lines)...
One thing I have learned to live with, depending on the terrier style/ grooming/ clip- is the dreaded wet drippy beard- they seem to love their water and that cold wet beard coming in contact with you unexpectedly is really something else! (Even my brother's miniature schnauzer has a little version of that wet beard)....
I call my gal my "bearded lady"- ha....


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## GrannyCarol

I don't think drooling is a common problem with terriers. Yes, the bearded ones do have that wet beard thing. They can be trimmed short, but its not nearly as cute. Many of the terriers are short coated though or have less beard than others. The Cairn doesn't have a lot of facial hair compared to a Schnauzer for example. Cairns are very solid little dogs. I like Westies, very cheerful and cute and also solid, but they are white and do require more grooming than some. It's not like a soft coated breed though, the hard coats do tend to shed dirt and water and don't really mat up, except for spring and fall shedding. Most of them don't seem to shed heavily year round and some don't really shed much at all. Airedales don't shed so much, but do lose their undercoat twice a year. They don't grow a long coat even if ungroomed.

Which ones appeal to you?


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## motdaugrnds

The ones I'm drawn to at this time are:

1. American Staffordshire Terrier
2. Cairn Terrier
3. Russell Terrier
4. Staffordshire Bull Terrier

I have not had a chance to contact the local rescues to see what they have as my phone is still not working. 

I want to make sure the dog chosen is large enough and aggressive enough to do some damage should the need arise while still being small enough to sit with me in my big chair.  (Poor Cujo still tries. He jumps up at my "inclincation" to let him up into my lap, lays down quickly and won't move at all....probably thinks I'd make him get down. He weighs over 80 lbs and is waaaaaay to large to be a lap dog. Still, I let him up once in awhile then, when my legs start to feeling his weight, tell him to get down.)

I could actually let Cujo stay indoors all the time as he would love that and is house broken; however, that would leave Valentina out to guard all by herself and I don't think that would be fair to her.


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## CAjerseychick

motdaugrnds said:


> The ones I'm drawn to at this time are:
> 
> 1. American Staffordshire Terrier
> 2. Cairn Terrier
> 3. Russell Terrier
> 4. Staffordshire Bull Terrier
> 
> I have not had a chance to contact the local rescues to see what they have as my phone is still not working.
> 
> I want to make sure the dog chosen is large enough and aggressive enough to do some damage should the need arise while still being small enough to sit with me in my big chair.  (Poor Cujo still tries. He jumps up at my "inclincation" to let him up into my lap, lays down quickly and won't move at all....probably thinks I'd make him get down. He weighs over 80 lbs and is waaaaaay to large to be a lap dog. Still, I let him up once in awhile then, when my legs start to feeling his weight, tell him to get down.)
> 
> I could actually let Cujo stay indoors all the time as he would love that and is house broken; however, that would leave Valentina out to guard all by herself and I don't think that would be fair to her.


Haha, my Max thinks he is still a small puppy and wants lap time too (but at 130lbs he has to be content to sit on our feet)- he is out doors too as I dont want the GP pup out alone....
I dont think any of those are known to drool... there are tons of jack russel in rescue though (I feel your pain on the phone thing mine wont charge, so its outa commission)...
Both the littles (Cairn and Russel are fiesty dogs, buts its the Am staff and staffy bull that will do more damage)....
Staffy bull are really adorable and very chunky blocky little dogs, we really liked the bully breeds for some time (had 2 boxers)....
all good picks IMO (maybe stay away from the pit bull thread though)....Just see what you come accross when you search...


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## Maura

If you want a lap dog find out the average weight of all those breeds. Find out if they will bite, not all will bite a human.


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## motdaugrnds

Well, I'm fast changing my mind about the Staffords. Seems they're too much like the pit bull; and I don't want to deal with a pit bull whose jaws I might not be able to unlock should an accident occur on my place.


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## JasoninMN

Every breed you listed except the cairn is known for same sex dog aggression. Seeing as you already have a male and a female I would steer clear of the JRT, look at a rat terrier, similar in appearance to JRT and not as dog aggressive.


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## motdaugrnds

I will be neutering Cujo this summer and Valentina next summer. 

I'm leaning toward the Cairn and Jack Russell now. (Still don't have a phone so will be awhile before I get to check out the rescue dogs.)


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## JasoninMN

Fixing isn't going to make much of a difference.


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## CAjerseychick

JasoninMN said:


> Fixing isn't going to make much of a difference.


well, it will for pregnancy issues!


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## CAjerseychick

Ahhh Jason, 
I had completely forgotten about the rat terrier (name notwithstanding) they are appealing, fiesty little dogs but not so much as the Jack or Cairn and come in (I think alittle) bigger sizes too....

On another Forum someone has 2 intact rat terriers(male) that live with 3 other dogs, one an intact LGD breed(male) without difficulty....


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## RedHeadedTricia

What about Corgi's? Either type might work. I had a pembroke who thought he was a big dog when strangles came around. He would stay between the stranger and me until I/we gave him the word otherwise but loved to lap it every chance he could. I know that they are "herders" by nature but mine was a prefect gentleman when we would go visiting a friend at her farm. She had all kinds of critters. I had him til he passed away. The Cardigans have the tails and tend to be less stocky then the Pem's. The Queen has Pem's if you need a visual.

RHT


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## arnie

check out the organal Mt curs . these are ''Thee ''small farmers dog since America was settled , you don't hear much about them because they are not an AKC registered breed and have never been subject to breeding just for showing or pets .(Which I consider a good thing) can be trained to do any thing .are extreamly intelligent, fearless,and faithful to the end can be trusted around chickens and children at around 30 pounds they are big and tough enough to handle any intruder yet not eat you out of house and home . I would not trade mine for a farm in Georgia. the only fault I could find would be they tend to be one person dogs an it is best to raise one from a pup . i'm in sw va near bristil and abington and have some pups


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## motdaugrnds

Well, I did look up the Corgi as well as the "original" Mtn Cur. The Corgi looks as though one kick would do the poor thing in; and the Mtn Cur looks like it stands at least 2 ft tall and can weight up to 60 lbs. Those curs are, also, hunting dogs; and though I'd certainly enjoy a squirrel in the frying pan now and then, I'm concerned as to how it would react to my newborn goats.....

I'm getting discouraged as what I want I may not find. It must be small enough to sleep in my lap without my legs going to sleep. ROFL And it must be VERY PROTECTIVE OF ME while still getting along with all animals on my place. 

Still leaning toward the Cairn and Jack Russell.....and sure am missing my phone....


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## GrannyCarol

A good Corgi can stand up to a kicking cow. I had one when I was a teenager, forgot about him. He was a great dog, very intelligent, great housepet and a good solid little dog. I want to have another some day and I don't doubt he would have stood up for me. They would be heavier than many of the small dogs - more solid - because they are a larger dog with short legs. He could handle my horses just fine, though they didn't try to attack him. Brave dogs.


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## Maura

Asking for a dog that is small enough to be a lap dog really limits you. If you consider a dog that could put his front half on your lap and the rear on the couch broadens the view.

Any terrier is going to be a good watch dog and bark if there is a strange noise. Due to their size, they are not considered good guard dogs. This does not mean they will not bite. Most dogs will guard _bark_ The Sealyham terrier has low indoor activity and medium outdoor activity, which I think is what you are looking for. They are emotionally stable, not as barky as other terriers.

As for toys that do not have a &#8216;high&#8217; or &#8216;very high&#8217; indoor activity, the English toy spaniel, but has a pug nose. Otherwise a very nice dog with high watchdog ability.
Bichon frise has high indoor activity but is very sociable and a good watchdog. Nothing to dislike about the dog and may be a really good choice for you. Needs grooming.
Boston terrier was mentioned, low indoor activity, high watchdog ability, very sociable and good with children and other dogs. However, they need to learn early to leave the livestock alone because once they latch on they don&#8217;t let go.
French bulldog has high indoor activity but is a good watchdog, affectionate and dependable.
A miniature poodle indoor activity ranges from very high to medium very smart and trainable, excellent watchdog, high to low guard dog ability. Playful, generally good with children.
Papillon has high indoor activity but is very sociable and smart, again a good watchdog and not barky.

With any of the dogs you must be careful to avoid puppy mill puppies or dogs. Many of the bad things you hear about a breed, especially small ones, is about those bred in puppy mills where they are cash cows and no thought is given to proper temperament or health. Since miniature poodles are so popular, you may be able to find a well bred min poodle for a reasonable price, possibly even in rescue. There are many poodle mixes but beware that if the parents had health problems, so will the puppies. Start letting people know that you are looking for a small indoor dog and you may get a real charmer in the form of a lovable mutt.


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## Molly Mckee

We have Westies, West Highland White Terriers. They are basically the same dog as both Carin and Scotties. All three came from the same breeding originally and were sorted by color.

Our Westies are pretty calm, are good with other dogs and animals (we have horses and goats) don't shed, are fascinated by the cats but only watch them and are good watch dogs. They are happy to sit on your lap or sleep by the fire. They have a big dog bark instead of a yap, and are well behaved and very smart. They are devoted to their people. However, we have spent a lot of time training them and have been careful about their breeding. I would be careful about one from a puppy mill, but that is true of any dog. The white does need to be at least rinsed off often in mud season, but they are small and easy to stick in a sink.


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## TriWinkle

You've been given a lot of great suggestions on here by some knowledgeable people...Heck, I was even taking notes on a few...But I'll throw out another shout for rat terriers...

They come in various sizes and aren't as sex aggressive as other breeds...

I can't speak for everyone's experience, but my own male rat terrier is what they refer to as a Decker Rat or Giant Rat Terrier.

He weighs about 30lbs...kills pests on site...has been taught to leave my chickens alone...he'll eyeball my baby lambs, but he's smart enough to stay away from them, because of their mommas...

But he doesn't lack for guts...he's tried to go toe to toe with the neighbors doberman...and he'll raise a ruckus (BTW, that's his name...Ruckus) only when there's a need...he isn't a yip yip dog, so when he starts barking...I go out and look.

I had him at the same time I had my male American Bulldog...both males were intact and neither attacked the other.


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## alsarve

Would like to just put in a few words for the Corgi breed. They aren't really slight dogs even tho they have short legs. The males are usually quite laid back, w the females being more protective. Very smart and often a one person dog. Good luck on your search!


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## motdaugrnds

I took another look at the Rat Terrier and remembered why I had not considered them, i.e. they are "digging escape artists". Sure don't need a newcomer teaching bad habits around here.

I looked at the West Highland White Terriers too. They are about the right size, just too much white for me. (We get a lot of spring rains and I can just see this pup enjoying the ourdoors and then wanting to come inside all muddy...and for this cause I, also, have ruled out the Sealyham terriers and Bichon.)

I also looked at the Papillon; however, they are just tooooo small.

I'm wanting a dog about 18" high and between 20-30 lbs....I'm getting the idea I'm wanting too much..........


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## solas4me

Min Pin (Minature Pinscher) gets my vote for best mini guard dog!


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## Squeaky McMurdo

My Jack Russell just had puppies yesterday and she lives with my intact female lab and still loves her dearly. We also go camping with friends that have both male and female dogs (so like a random pack of 10 dogs) and there has never been an issue. My lab and jack are both dominant personalities and yet are best buds even with puppies in the picture.


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## motdaugrnds

Solas4me, I sure do like the looks and sound of that miniature pinscher. Even though a bit smaller than what I was considering, it's temperament makes up for it. In researching it, I find it enjoys escaping, like I'm finding many smaller breeds enjoy; so I need to consider this. (I do have 6 acres but I would not want it to feel free to leave them.) .... editing to include what I remembered: My sister had a miniature doberman, which may or may not be the same as this miniature pinscher; and I recall her telling me that was the worst dog she ever had because it was never still and would even pee on her bed....I find myself wondering what type of "owner/trainer" my sister is........

Squeaky, can you speak to the genetic health of your Jack Russell pups? Also how much are you asking and what type shipping would be required? (I see you're in Wyoming and that is quite a distance from Virginia.)

I did find a breeder of the Cairn breed in New Jersey and have written them for some genetic information as to health, price and shipping.

.....also heard from my phone company and my phone is suppose to be active this Wednesday..... at which time I'll see what rescue pups are available in my area.


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## Squeaky McMurdo

The dad is a service dog so has several generations of sound dogs behind him. Zip is not quite two years old but is a great farm dog. The stud owner insists I can get $300 or more out of them if I dock their tails, but I don't really want to dock their tails. Not sure if that matters to you


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## GG

Squeaky! Natural tail! Natural tail! (Not that I have a vote, and not that I've been dreaming about getting that little girl pup ever since you posted.......)


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## CedarGait

We have a mini schnauzer that if something is outside he let's us know but is pretty much laid back the rest of the time. He'll chase the cat but doesn't mess with the goats or chickens.


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## motdaugrnds

Sure wish you were closer Squeaky...

My phone is still not connected. Appears the "wireless" that Verizon could NOT provide me services for will not let go of the account I NEVER EVEN ACTIVATED BECAUSE COULD NOT GET WIRELESS AT MY HOME..........duh!


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## Kasota

Terriers, by and large, are really active dogs and they can be stubborn. I love my Wire Haired Fox Terrier to death...but she is terrier through and through and has a very strong prey drive. They can be (though not all for sure) quite the barkers. 

She is a blessing here because my elderly mom lives with me and her hearing is bad. She refused hearing aides. (sigh) But my wee dog has turned into a bit of a service dog. She lets her know when the microwave beeps, when the timer goes off, when the toast pops up, if the dryer buzzer goes off and if there is someone at the door. She doesn't miss a beat. She can be scrappy if need be and while she wouldn't be much protection due to her size - she lets us know if there is anyone or anything around in the yard. I find her very useful in her small dog way.  But there is no doubt that she is on the hyper side. She's got one ear that sticks up and it rotates around like radar... lol.


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## motdaugrnds

I finally got my phone connected; so I was able to call the local dog shelters. One of them had some "terrier mixes" PUPPIES; so I'll be going down as soon as weather permits and take a look. (I'm a bit concerned a terrier would have too much energy to be happy inside this trailer with me. And I'm concerned it might keep my nerves torn up by barking so much.)

I also found (on the net) a few other breeds that are interesting and just might work for me here. They are:

Australian Cattle Dog (Blue Heeler I believe)
Belgian Shepherd Dog (Malinois)
Kai Ken (a Japanese dog)

These are not tiny dogs and not large dogs; however, they are small enough to be indoors. If I'm understanding what is written about these breeds, they are more calm than a terrier and smart enough to be taught some of what I want to teach my house dog, i.e. to pick up things I drop, get me items needed, even carry things for me at times; and I definately want it to be able to STAY near me "most" of the time when I'm out doors and not just taking off to roam all the time.


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## GrannyCarol

Heelers are a high energy, high herding drive dog usually. That means they are also very smart. We have a high drive Smooth Collie. She is incredibly smart. As we are a bit older, we "work" her by teaching her tricks, but she would have made a wonderful service dog. She's pretty good in the house (she's only two) and is about 22" tall at the shoulder and weighs 42 lbs. If she had to protect us, I think she would and that she could. She would be difficult with livestock, because she really wants to herd. 

I'll say again that my Corgi was a wonderful dog and they should weigh about the right amount. He was very intelligent and not hyper. The breed standard calls for the males to be under 30 lbs, but that means most of them will be close to 30 lbs rather than 20 lbs. They are not a small fragile dog. They have the tenacity to work cattle and the speed to duck under a kick. Mine would herd the horses when let to, but otherwise left them alone. 

Malinois are a possibility. I don't know anything about the Kia Ken, I suspect they'd be really hard to find. This might offend the Min Pin lovers (they ARE really cute and some are pretty cool dogs too), but I always thought of them as fleas on steroids! My 55 lb English Setter uses less space in the house than one Min Pin would (yes, they are sometimes called Miniature Dobermans). Min Pins are also TINY - more like 5 lbs than 30. 

Good luck at the shelter! If you like the terriers there, just choose a quiet laid back one, but never ever a fearful one. Don't pick a pup because you feel sorry for it, chances are it'll be pretty worthless, its hard to overcome poor early socialization or a naturally shy temperament. Mess with whatever dog you look at and look for one that will retrieve, that often indicates intelligence and trainability. Pick one interested in you, alert, friendly and not clingy. I suspect you know most of that anyways.


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## motdaugrnds

Carol, That is great information. Thank you so much. 

I have been quite interested in the Corgi; but only found ONE breeder. That breeder was in New Jersey and has not responded to my email.

What you said, Carol, about interacting with the puppies found at the shelter is welcomed. I like being reminded to go with my head in these matters instead of my heart as I do tend to protect more than be protected; and in this case, I want a dog with a personality strong enough to stand in the face of possible danger in my home. So, I've written down what you said on a card and plan on carrying it with me so as not to forget to test the pups. Thank you.


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## GrannyCarol

One of our best ever dogs was a medium sized black mutt. He was supposed to be Lab and German Shorthair, but I am convinced he was Lab and Border Collie by his smaller size and overall look and temperament. Very smart, very willing, he practically trained himself. I'd say looking back he was about 22" and 40 lbs. Sometimes the basic black mutt IS the best dog and there always seems to be plenty of them around. 

Each breed has characteristics that are commonly found within the breed for temperament, but each individual expresses them according to how it sorts out within that dog. It is helpful to pick a breed that generally has the characteristics you need, but in the end it is the individual dog you live with. I know how hereditary temperament is... After many litters of puppies of a few different breeds, I found you can pick up a new born puppy and it will be calm and relaxed or tense and reactive. A little one might be a screamer or it may be lazy. These traits hold throughout its life and must be taken into consideration and worked with to produce the best possible dog in the end. That's why I suggest really looking at each pup to see how it reacts, because that is the best guide you have in this situation to what you will need to do with it to get it to turn out the way you want it, or whether it is really suitable in the first place. 

You don't have to look for protection in a puppy, all you want is bold, confident, affectionate, a pup that wants to be with you, but also explores its surroundings. When it grows up and is bonded to you, almost any dog will protect as best it can. I'm thinking house dog here, rather than a guard dog in the yard. Even my lazy, sweet, "I love everyone" English Setter goes on guard when she's startled and I'm sure she would if anything bad was going on. 

Good luck!


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## Squeaky McMurdo

Instead of going to the shelter and walking the isle looking for the first dog that catches your eye, how about calling them ahead of time? Tell them what you need size and personality wise, what your plans are for the dog and let THEM pick a few dogs for you to look at. They have spent enough time with them to have a good idea who their dogs will match the best for.


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## Maura

I don&#8217;t know about the Kai. The malinois and heeler are going to want to go after your livestock. Malinois are prized dogs with police and military, but they are known to bite their handlers. They are very smart and are really more dog than you seem to be looking for.


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## hickerbillywife

westies!


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## mrs whodunit

We have a doxie (8lbs) who is an excellent watch dog, had a yorkie (2lbs) who was also excellent. That yorkie heard stuff we or the lab never did.

I think yappy-ness of little dogs comes from lack of training


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## bluemoonluck

motdaugrnds said:


> Well, I'm fast changing my mind about the Staffords. Seems they're too much like the pit bull; and I don't want to deal with a pit bull whose jaws I might not be able to unlock should an accident occur on my place.


Just FYI, it's an Urban Legend that pit bulls have locking jaws. Pit bulls have very strong jaw muscles, but their jaws are hinged the exact same way as all dog jaws are, there is no locking mechanism on any of them :thumb:

I live with a handful or two of Miniature Bull Terriers. They all have various personalities, some are more laid back than others, some won't bark when the doorbell rings, others do. ALL of my dogs have an "off" switch, and as long as they get adequate exercise they're more than happy to lay on the couch with me all day long. Not all terriers are spazzy :sing:.

If you're talking to breeders about puppies, please keep in mind that a healthy dog is a happy dog. Ask for health testing results - OFA clearances, etc. Nothing worse than spending big $$$ on a dog only to have it fall ill with a disease/disorder that could have been avoided if the parents were adequately health tested. This article explains it pretty well: [FONT=&quot]http://www.forbes.com/sites/allenst...ing-economics-of-purchasing-a-purebred-puppy/

Of course for your needs, a pup from the local animal shelter may be just what you need! Go see what they've got and then sit down and think over your options. And once you get a pup, you know you have to post pics, right? [/FONT]


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## motdaugrnds

Well, I was finally able to get out today. I visited the nearest shelter whose people had told me they had a variety of puppies available.

The puppies were of various ages and various breeds. 

I saw a couple of 2 mos old chows (one red; one black). Both were quiet & cautious, yet friendly. I wanted both of them.

I saw two Jack Russels 4 mos old (one red/white; one black/white). The red one growled and barked at me, never coming over for a pet. The black one barked once, then came over for pets. At that time, the Red one turned its attention to the black one, barking and growling and even pulling its back leg, an obvious attempt to get that black pup away from me. The black one would turn around, growl and snap at the red one, then return for attention. I wanted both of them.

One looked like it had a great deal of pit bull in it yet was thinner/taller; so not sure what it was mixed with. It stood on its hind legs and attempted to slide thru openings to get to me it wanted to cuddle so badly. My heart went out to this one.

Then there were 3 teeny tiny chiwawa (mispelled) pups. One growled and barked at me. The other 2 wanted pets. 

There was, also, a mother beagle still nursing her litter of 5. The pups looked healthy and fat; however, the mother looked pitiful.

There were a few others I did not pay much attention to as they would be making larger dogs than what I want. Still as puppies....well you all know how cute puppies are!

This was NOT a positive experience for me. I have a very hard time leaving animals in need alone. I hope they all get adopted, though I doubt they will.

This trip did kind of change my mind about a Jack Russell. I really like the way both those dogs acted, even the red assertive one.

I never gave any of these dogs pets, though I did let a few of them smell my hand and I walked away without taking any pup.


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## GrannyCarol

Well, Chows might be alright, they do tend to bite and there is a LOT of grooming. I good one is a very cool dog. They are lower energy dogs, good in the house that way. 

The black Jack Russell sounds like a good candidate, probably better off not getting the red one. Beagle pups might also be a good choice, they tend to be busier, but are tough, hardy and easy going. They will roam, as it is bred in them to put their nose to a trail and follow it, come what may. I bred them for a time, enjoyed them, but they weren't as cuddly as my English Setters so ended up with that breed in the end.


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## Squeaky McMurdo

It might be worth it to have the shelter bring the two Jacks out individually away from the other dogs for you to get to know them. I got Zip at 9 weeks so those pups are still within the parameters of being young enough to mold into farm dogs.

I would only pick one though as you want your dog to be friendly to your other dogs and if you get them both they may form a clique and not bond with your current dogs or any of your animals.


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## CAjerseychick

Just at the vets, couldnt help leafing through the "dogs for adoption" folder--
saw some great dogs that would be perfect for you--

a couple Jack russel mixes, a mini schnauzer- cairn terrier cross (he seemed Perfect),
a 3 yr old Schipperke fixed male (they were the original watch dogs for the barges in Holland),
a lhasa apso mix (I forgot about these, they were bred to be house guards, and have the flowing locks you desire, but alittle sturdier that the Yorkie)...

sigh...


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## motdaugrnds

WOW CA wish California was closer to Virginia........


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## CAjerseychick

motdaugrnds said:


> WOW CA wish California was closer to Virginia........


Yeah me too for lotsa reasons (what we need is a Star Trek style Transporter so we can Beam places.... oops my Geek is showing),

it killed me, there was a pair of registered, titled Pointers (musta gotten too old for hunting?) and a SEVENTEEN month old spayed female purebreed Golden Retreiver, just some really nice dogs....


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## motdaugrnds

I called the nearest animal shelter today to double check on the two Jack Russells mentioned in one of my posts above. They are both still available; however, I was wrong about their ages. Neither is a new born pup. The red/white one is 2 yrs old and the black/white one is 1 yr old. I'm concerned about getting any this old. Should I be?


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## CountryCabin

motdaugrnds
I would go with the 1 yr old pup..not a full adult yet thats set in its ways.

ETA did they say if pup was fixed? Can you go visit the 1 yr again and see how you get along?

Good luck!


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## aart

CountryCabin said:


> motdaugrnds
> I would go with the 1 yr old pup..not a full adult yet thats set in its ways.
> 
> ETA did they say if pup was fixed? Can you go visit the 1 yr again and see how you get along?
> 
> Good luck!


Ditto...see if you can visit the 1yo B&W in a separate area from the 2yo R&W....Best of Luck!


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## motdaugrnds

Good idea! I will call and find out if they will set it up for me to observe both of those JR in an open pen with other dogs....then in open pen with only myself and both of them; then with only the one. That should tell me a lot.

My biggest concern is that even the youngest blk/wt one has already made a decision as to its position in a pack; and should it be the dominant one, it will not work at my home. Oh yes, I can claim the dominant role "inside" my home; but among the other 2 dogs, there is still that pecking order. Valentina has laid claim to dominancy between her and Cujo and I have little doubt she would not give that position up to a JR. (I think my own insecurities are showing here as I don't want to bring home a dog that could get hurt.) I do know a lot would depend on the way the new 1 yr old was introduced; and I do trust Valentina and Cujo not to hurt me. I'm just not sure my poor agility would be enough should the JR make its own move....I know: calm, calm, calm!!!!! It's just that I've been thru too much these past couple of months that have torn up my emotions; so I'm not as trusting of them as I need to be.


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## Squeaky McMurdo

Pack dynamics change all the time.

Both Zip the JRT and Cammy the Lab have dominant personalities. Sometimes I don't know who the dominant one is.

In my experience (we go camping fairly often with a massive pack of dogs between us and our family and friends) the intact females take over leadership fairly quickly just by virtue of being intact. The JRT being neutered already probably won't make any serious plays for top dog.


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## CAjerseychick

Yeah in my experience- males- even ones prone to dog aggression -- are waaaayyyy more accommodating then dominant Females.... 

(once the pack order is established)...
we have neutered and un- neutered male experience, and a pair of both existing well together right now...


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## motdaugrnds

I'm going down today to get in a pen with these Jack Russells. I'm thinking if they are too hyper, I will not consider them again. I do need a "house" dog that will not continually drive me up the wall.


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## Squeaky McMurdo

Mine likes to lounge around indoors and be held, but is alert around new people.

Is there any way the shelter would let you take one home on a trial basis? Same goes for any shelter dog really. That would be the best way to see what they are really like.


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## motdaugrnds

I went down to socialize a bit with the JR and they were both gone. The lady said they were both at the vets getting spayed and that one (the youngest) was already spoken for.

A different lady showed me an area where puppies were that was different from the one I had seen previously; and there were some 12 week old terriers in there, 2 of which were playing with each other. There were also a couple of terrier/chow mixes (with very small feet) in with them. 

The lady took both terriers out and placed them in a play room alone with me. They both were friendly and wanting attention until I offered them one of the toys in the large toy box. Then they could care less that I was there as they played tug of war with each other. The lady then returned saying the female was spoken for already; so I asked her to take it out and only leave the little boy. She did and he was more inclined to look my way now and then. I could pick him up (as a ***** would have done) by the back of its neck and its tail was nice and limp and it was not at all vocal nor showed any sign of fear or anxiety. 

Both these pups are labeled "terrier mix"; however, no one knew what they were mixed with and they didn't look mixed to me at all....yeah, what do I know about Terriers. I went ahead and filled out an application for the little boy, getting the number to the place that had sent these pups to this particular shelter.

When I got home I called the party and it was an animal control shelter in the same county. The man I spoke with remembered the pups as he told their story. A party had called saying there was a female and a male dog with "many" pups living in an abandoned building. When this control person went to see, all the pups came running out to greet him but there were no adult dogs around. The pups looked healthy and happy with good weight on them...about 8 weeks old he guessed.

Now, I'm thinking this Terrier will certainly have a lot of energy, yet it is young enough to play some of that off and teach it whatever I want it to learn. I'm really not that concerned about having a pup/dog to cuddle with as I have a very affectionate 5 yr old cat that sleeps at my feet and/or in my lap often. So, this pup would certainly keep me entertained! (I don't like what is on TV anyway.)

Now, I'm wondering how I would terrier-proof my trailer. My concern is the electrical plugs/chords close to the floor in the living room. I'm thinking I can probably push certain pieces of furniture up to keep those out of reach to this pup. Then I have 2-1/2 ft plastic gates I can place at the doors of the rooms I don't want a "puppy" to enter. I could, also, attach a rather lengthy light-weight leash to this puppy, which is probably a good idea since it is so much more agile than I.

I will call tomorrow to see if my application has been accepted. In the meantime, what do you all think of my taking this pup? (My long-term plans for this terrier is to have it go with me whenever I work in the garden. It can dig up all the voles/moles/whatever in there.)

I remember a neighbor came by a few years back with a "rat terrier" in the cab of his truck, sitting across his shoulders. That "grown" terrier growled at me but did not lunge while I stood talking with this neighbor. This man told me how much he valued this dog and why....He had been tending his bull and the bull got out and charged him, picking him up and tossing him around as though he were a rag doll. He said this little terrier started nipping at this bull's feet and, with growls and barks and bites, he drove that hugh bull across the creek. Then this terrier stood on top of a log and looked like he was facing that bull down with growl and barks. That bull stayed across the creek.

What this tells me is that a little Terrier could be protective of me should the need arise. This gives me a lot of comfort!

Anxious to hear comments about all this.....


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## Squeaky McMurdo

Sounds promising!


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## aart

Well, if it feels right do it! 

If anyone can train him, you can. Only time will tell for sure.
Not sure you want to allow him to dig in the garden after moles/voles.......could end up digging thru your veggies......but you'll figure it out.

Of course we'll need a pic...and can't wait to hear the stories this new pup in your pack will generate!

Best of Luck!


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## GrannyCarol

Terriers are fearless and tough and smart as can be. They are a lot of dog in a small body. I would think a good amount of exercise and training to keep that busy mind under control and you'd have a great little dog.


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## CAjerseychick

Sounds great! He is little so thats good you can pick him up or use baby gates to keep him outa trouble.... also get some Bitter apple to spray on things like cords....
a squeaky ball too to roll around and he can pounce on it and it will squeak which will drive him crazy (in a good way)..
Def need pics!


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## CountryCabin

Congrats sounds like you are about to become a new 'mom'. 

Those baby gates are the greatest to corral them in one place.
Looking forward to pictures.


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## 65284

Maura, we used to raise and show Papilons, very intelligent, athletic and gutsy they think they are 10 feet tall and bullet proof, we lost a male who tackled a Boxer that came over a chain link fence into the yard. I recommend them highly, only downside is they do need bathing and brushing weekly.

Our curent house dog is a 17 year old, 18 pound Mini Schnauzer. Couldn't ask for any thing better he is very alert, and vocal and still jumps upon "his couch" and lays on the back where he can look out the window. And I don't doubt he would gum anyone that needed it. 

Our Pyrs take care of things outside, Leroy makes sure we know if anyone gets close to the house. That's all I ask of a house dog, just a warning in time for me to get the hardware out.


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## motdaugrnds

Well, this endeavor went south fast!!!

Seems this animal shelter wants to neuter this 12 week old pup before I can take it home. I called my vet and asked about this and was told they did not like to neuter a pup this young. Soooooo still looking...................

Another situation has risen, i.e. my trailer gets quite warm during summer months; and any "inside" dog would need to be able to deal with this. (I'm wondering if any dog can; although my grown cat has been doing fine all these years with it.) Maybe I need to put this search off until later this year when the weather is cooler. This way the "house" dog could get use to the place and all the other animals could get use to it so that next summer when the weather is so hot, I could let it out to enjoy the shade and water excursions my other dogs make use of to stay the heat. (Seems making an adjustment to a new home at such a young age is all a pup should have to contend with!) 

((sigh))


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## aart

When it's meant to be, it'll happen.


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## terapin

Coming late to this party, but I would certainly recommend a Scottish terrier, since you have already trained and raised dogs. There bark is right out of Rottweiler territory, completely fearless, very loyal. Although they can be a bugger to train.

read more about scotties here

Edit: You will rarely find these dogs at a shelter, your best bet is to contact your local scottish terrier rescue.


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## VonDenWald

Corgi's are great smaller farm/cattle dogs. I have a corgi crossed with blue heeler, Australian shep, boarder collie and he is a great house/farm dog. I also have chihuahuas that though will push my free range chickens once in a while they are never serious about catching. Having a farm/house dog is in the training. Any breed you want can live in the house and Co-habitat with farm animals. Now I don't recommend small breeds being out with large livestock but that does not mean you cannot teach a small dog to stay out of the way or stay out of certain areas.

Good this helps.


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## CAjerseychick

Just be aware that any shelter worth its salt is gonna want any dog you take home neutered ....

For a small dog its not as much of a deal breaker, to me, in terms of early neuter...
and remember, I think most dogs would rather live and acclimmate to heat than die in a shelter...


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## motdaugrnds

Giving lots of thought to this. I do want an inside dog so badly. My cat is alert but she won't wake me; and should something happen to my outside dogs, I really need to be alerted so I can get whichever gun is handly...got one at each end of the trailer....a bit paranoid I think!

Yes, Aart, I've learned "When it's meant to be, it will happen." Thanks for reminding me. The little 12 wk old terrier never really "felt" right anyway.....

This actually how I got the trailer I live in. The owner had tried to sell it 3 yrs in a row in order to make a down payment on a red brick house he wanted; yet each year the owner of that brick house backed out until the year I needed the trailer. That is when this stranger knocked on my door and told mother he had this 3-bedroom 1-1/2 bath trailer I could have with nothing down and pay if off as I could. Maybe my house dog will show up in a similar fashion, i.e. when the right dog is available. 

In the meantime and for fun I've been looking at the miniature schnauzers...........


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## BlueRose

Take a look at some cross breeds too. There are some good crosses that make great house and yard dogs.


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## motdaugrnds

Thanks for reminding me Rose. One of the best dogs for my stock, home and family was a "mix", Apache Rose. She is still missed!

I've been watching youtube videos of "The Dog Whisperer" for fun! He has been dealing with a lot of "mixed" breeds.


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## Fetherhd

These little dogs were bred to guard barges. They are small perky dogs who will back up their bark with a bite if needed!


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## motdaugrnds

Thanks all.....am looking at the Papilons, Scottish terriers and Schipperkes.

I'm keeping an eye on Craigslist too. 

Getting a little concerned about what I'm hearing about ears needing to be "plucked" on some breeds ....


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## aart

I have to pluck my std poodle Rascals ears....it's not fun. Small hemostats with good serrated jaws, medicated powder to dry the hair(makes it brittle), provides 'grip' against the 'wax' and increases visibility....and a good headlight, you have to be able to see the opening of the ear canal and all those funky cartilage folds in there. I'm very lucky that my pup is rather complacent (nature and training), and after 7 years I've gotten pretty good at it so it takes less time, I can't imagine doing it on an uncooperative dog.

If I don't pluck it regularly (the more often you do it the easier it is to do as there's less hair, wax and irritation) the hair can grow right into the ear canal creating a wax saturated mat as big around as a #2 pencil that can get over an inch long. I also use an ear wash a few days before plucking to cut the wax and a week after to get the powder residue out.

My vet showed me how to do it when it got bad and Rascal got a bad ear infection when I first got him. You could probably pay a groomer or a vet to do it for you, ask around and do some googling(that's how I learned about the powder). Some breeds are worse than others and individuals do vary as to the rate of hair growth in the ear, Rascal grows it pretty good and I pluck every 2-3 months.

Maybe more info (that you didn't even ask for... lol) than you wanted, but thought I would share my experience as I was shocked with guilt to see that huge mass pulled out of my poor pups ear by the vet and determined to make sure it didn't happen again.


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## motdaugrnds

Thank you Aart. I actually can never get too much information as I know there is ALWAYS something I didn't know and wish I had at one time or another. 

I'm going to try and avoid getting a pup whose ears need plucked; however, I will take from your experience and keep tabs on the hair growing in ears.


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## CAjerseychick

motdaugrnds said:


> Thank you Aart. I actually can never get too much information as I know there is ALWAYS something I didn't know and wish I had at one time or another.
> 
> I'm going to try and avoid getting a pup whose ears need plucked; however, I will take from your experience and keep tabs on the hair growing in ears.


Actually our schnauzer has a longer (not correct "American" style) coat and very hairy ears. She is 5 and I dont really fool around with plucking, just give them a good clean everynow and then and if they get really long I just trim them back a bit with grooming scizzors-- itsa sorta late night TV thing after I get offa work and will sit on the floor on her rug with her fooling around with brushing, detangling, toenail checks, etc....


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## Squeaky McMurdo

Wouldn't using a nose and ear trimmer be just as helpful as plucking? I had a Westie growing up and she never had any ear problems and we kept her trimmed (plenty of skin and other problems though, poor thing had to be put down at 3)


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## aart

The ear canal opening is way down at the bottom of the outer ear, it's hard to see unless you lay the dog down on it's side and pull the outer ear open and shine a light down there. 

I thought I was keeping the inside ear hair trimmed well until the vet pulled that nasty chunk of hairy gunk out. I don't know about other breeds of dogs as I mostly just researched poodles. Poodles have hair rather than fur, it keeps growing and growing longer and longer whereas most dogs fur grows out to a certain length....and I think that's part of why poodles seem to have more need of the plucking....but not sure, YMMV.

I don't think a human nose/ear trimmer is sharp enough to cut that hair and could clip the edge of a cartilage fold.

Here's pic I found, it's a Pyrenees but shows the anatomy that I see when I pluck. The ear canal opening that I talk about is where the horizontal ear canal starts. That whole horizontal canal can get clogged with hair and wax....and it shows the cartilage folds I was talking about.


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## motdaugrnds

Great information. Thank you all so much.

Was offerred a Shipperke pup for $450; but would have to arrange shipping. Thus, such a pup would wind up costing me about $1,000 and I wouldn't even get to see it first. Had to turn this offer down; but sure do like the looks of those Shipperke dogs.


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## CAjerseychick

motdaugrnds said:


> Great information. Thank you all so much.
> 
> Was offerred a Shipperke pup for $450; but would have to arrange shipping. Thus, such a pup would wind up costing me about $1,000 and I wouldn't even get to see it first. Had to turn this offer down; but sure do like the looks of those Shipperke dogs.


Are you sure thats a honest offer?, that sounds a bit off to me...

I would call around to Vets offices or rescues..... (I wish I could give you the purebreed male thats posted at my vets office, so many beautiful purebred dogs available here-- maybe call big city vets near you, or the SPCA there)...


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## CAjerseychick

Heres one link to schipperke rescue 

http://www.schipperkerescue.net/Pages/FRrescuers.htm
!


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## motdaugrnds

Thanks CA 

Will expand my search...


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## Mattemma

I have a mini pinscher(sp). He is quite alert and a major barker.He sleeps by the door at night.

Cost me $50.He is a good protecter and looks great even with no tail/ear cutting.

Most dogs are good at protection. Just gotta get one that does not void in the house.Best wishes!


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## shadowenwalker

Why not a Manchester Terrier...http://www.animalplanet.com/breed-selector/dog-breeds/terrier/manchester-terrier-standard.html


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## sisterpine

Wow, this somehow landed on the wrong thread!! 

What a blessing that no one was seriously injured!


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## Maura

So, do you have an indoor dog yet?


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## motdaugrnds

Maura, the answer to your question is no.

when I got hit with a lot of unexpected bills (only one of which was the expense of treating my goats for meningeal worms), I didn't want to take the chance of not being able to provide for a 3rd dog. So at present, my hopes are still high that I can get a "house" dog, though my nerves and good sense are telling me to slow down until I feel more comfortable ... financially as well as emotionally.

I know getting one from the humane society would not cost much; but by now you know I won't skip on getting my animals what they need, which includes shots and regular checkups. 

Also, my nerves are such that it simply would not be fair to bring any new animal onto this place right now.  I need to be more stable so as to be more certain I can offer a re-homed dog what it might need.


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## Maura

Well, good that you have a handle on what you can manage.


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## wiscto

Hey there everybody. This is my first post on this site, so I'm going to give a couple quick disclaimers.

1. I'm definitely not making an argument against any of the other breeds mentioned here, no experience with most of them.
2. I don't have much experience with true personal protection dogs.
3. I too find that heavily caffeinated look in the shipperke's eyes to be a little unsettling, but like I said, no experience with those pups!

So anyway, I thought I would mention English Shepherds (Farm Collies). You can probably find a good breeder in Virginia, although I don't think all ES litters are advertised. There is no real physical breed standard, good ES breeders breed them for temperament and versatility. In general, it's pretty easy to teach them where your territory starts and stops, what kind of trouble to stay away from, and most of them will at least alert you to visitors. 

We had a mix when I was growing up. One parent was English Shepherd, the other was an Irish Setter/Springer Spaniel mutt. She was a beautiful dog, and very calm. Although I'm not really sure how she would have reacted if any of us had been attacked, the English Shepherd in her liked to patrol the yard when I went outside so that she could find out what kind of critters might be around to hurt me. Sometimes she would get a whiff of something and go sit at the edge of the yard facing the woods/field and just watch for an hour or so, I always assumed coyotes or stray dogs were around. If she didn't trust a situation, she would give a warning bark. If she flat out didn't like someone, everyone knew, although that was pretty rare and it really stopped after we moved to our second house. I guess she didn't like our old neighbor very much.

And I'm not kidding about the varmint control part. She didn't have an uncontrollable "drive" as I see it called around here, but my dad had bird feeders for years, and I swear that after a while the chipmunks just knew better than to approach all that delicious seed on the ground. She wasn't even really that fast, she just knew when they weren't alert to her. After a couple years of tragic chipmunk apocalypse, they just didn't show up very often, and they were all over everywhere else.

The funniest thing about her was the bees. We didn't notice it until after I got stung (I was pretty loud about the whole thing), so we think she was exercising a little danger control. She would lay by the flower garden snapping at them all day. When she got one, she'd start chewing very carefully, then the next thing you know she'd push the stinger out with her tongue, spit it on the ground, and swallow. If only we had video cameras back then. I think she felt like it was a job and a snack all in one, pure dog heaven I guess.

If you get one, I think it would be a pretty quick learner and wouldn't get in your LGDs way. It may even be able to help a bit, and then join you in the trailer at night.


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