# So why is every place still out of ammo?



## mnn2501 (Apr 2, 2008)

OK, so I understand there was a run on ammo last year, but why are most places still out?

Seriously, why aren't the ammo companies running 24/7 and charging what the market will bear?


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## Dixie Bee Acres (Jul 22, 2013)

Homeland security is buying a lot of it.


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## hercsmama (Jan 15, 2004)

Nope, not just Texas.
We can get it at the gun Shop for twice the normal amount, but Wally world and Cabelas never have any. According to the guys in that department (both places), you literally have to be there when it goes on the shelves, or you can forget it.


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## mnn2501 (Apr 2, 2008)

Wind in Her Hair said:


> I swear, it must just be Texas. My son and son-in-law say the same thing.


No, you go online with companies from all over the country and they're mostly out.
I can get up to 5 boxes (50 rounds each) when I go to shoot targets, but that's it, and sometime they are out of certain calibers for a week or so.


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## paradox (Nov 19, 2012)

Because people are still buying it up. The run isn't over yet. Ammo companies are running some major overtime but still can't keep up. Many are asking why they don't just expand their operation - well because when the run is over, they would have to shut it back down and fire everyone - not cost effective. So they do the best they can and wait for things to normalize. It isn't just Texas - I have relatives in LA fussing about it too and there are enough articles in mags and things on FB to make me think it is still fairly common everywhere. 

Right now there is kind of an odd mix going on. The stores selling at only slightly elevated prices generally limit one box per person per day and they still have bare shelves so you have to walk in at just the right time. There are actually whole websites and fb pages dedicated to alerting folks when something comes in stock. Then there are stores that are charging outrageous prices - they have lots on the shelves - but few people are desperate enough to pay it. Some online stores have relatively decent prices but are limiting to one box so when you figure shipping it becomes outrageous (i.e. Cabelas). Some stores don't limit you but they will post something and then sell out before you can blink.

Personally, I have become a total stalker on sites like ammoseek and gunbot. Because when something hits the list (like 22lr for 7 cents per rnd) it will be gone in literally minutes. Yesterday I literally lost what was in my cart in the time it took to register so I could buy. They didn't let me checkout as a guest. Soooooooo frustrating!

We reload for our carry guns, but we love to play shooting games with the kids and use 22lr for that stuff and we are running very very low.


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## GREENCOUNTYPETE (Jul 25, 2006)

try and get powder or primers powder valley one of the larger onlune powder suppliers , looks like they must be having a very slow shipping month every product powder , caps , primers , bullets , brass all out of stock 

commertial hunting ammo is making it back to the shelf here , you can buy 30-06 and 7mm and 270 , 243 and such now but people tend to shot maybe 20 rounds of that a year .

even seen a little 223 hit the shelf 

but 22lr , still nothing 

when will the market not be able to absorb the ammo manufactured , when every guy with 25 bucks in his wallet feels like he has a life time supply of 22lr


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## paradox (Nov 19, 2012)

Luckily we had lots of reloading stuff. I am hoping by the time we run out, things will be back to normal. We saw powder on the shelf last weekend but didn't check the price since we didn't need any. I did notice small pistol primers where 44.99 for 1000 and they have had those in stock for several weeks running so that is a good sign.


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## GREENCOUNTYPETE (Jul 25, 2006)

but at 34.99 i bet they would be gone in a few days at 29.99 a day 

I got some primers a while back 

part of it is when the prices started rising on a box of primers many said well lets order a case from the online place and get 10k each 

think about it this way , if the DHS has ordered 3 rounds per every man woman and child , think of what the shooting public has , and is putting away every day.


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## bassmaster17327 (Apr 6, 2011)

I know walmart does get shipments of 22LR but it is bought right away because they did not raise their prices. I was at Walmart last week and they had four boxes of 22 mag, I bought three and the guy said that they had 20 boxes an hour before I got there. I asked about 22lr and he said he stocked "a bunch" and it was all gone in 20 minutes


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## paradox (Nov 19, 2012)

Just scored 1500 22lr for 11 cents per round. It's really sad that I am happy about that. But since 22lr has become rare as rockin horse turds, I am actually pretty stoked.


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## vicker (Jul 11, 2003)

You payed $165 for 1500 .22 rounds? Wow! I'm glad I was stocked.


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## paradox (Nov 19, 2012)

LOL - I know. Sickening. And I had to hunt for days to pull that off.


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## vicker (Jul 11, 2003)

I gave my sister a box a couple of weeks ago, as she couldn't find any. She was all like kissing me and stuff, I think I understand now


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## oz in SC V2.0 (Dec 19, 2008)

This website searches online for the best price.
http://www.gunbot.net/


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## Pops2 (Jan 27, 2003)

Part of the problem is hoarders that don't understand when they have enough. I've literally heard a guy say at the cabelas here, "when are you getting bricks (of 22)...... i only have ten bricks right now.....I want about ten more."
That's 5000 rounds of 22lr. It's an all day event for one guy to blow off one brick, heck it's an all day affair for 20 Marines to pop off 20,000 rounds of 50 cal from a couple of ma deuces. If you have ten bricks you don't need to be trying get another ten, just replace them as you use them until things get back to normal.


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## GREENCOUNTYPETE (Jul 25, 2006)

Pops2 said:


> Part of the problem is hoarders that don't understand when they have enough. I've literally heard a guy say at the cabelas here, "when are you getting bricks (of 22)...... i only have ten bricks right now.....I want about ten more."





GREENCOUNTYPETE said:


> when will the market not be able to absorb the ammo manufactured , *when every guy with 25 bucks in his wallet feels like he has a life time supply of 22lr*



for a long time the survival boards have been saying stock up on 22lr , one day it may even be the currency , people finally listened all at once the first time they couldn't get it.

actually it was not in great supply for the past 5 years , but you could alwasy get some , just maybe not your brand at the standard price 

cci blazer was one of these , Farm and Fleet held the price at 19.95 a brick the boxes would be gone within a day or two of being stocked , it was great ammo tht fed in almost everything and 4 cents a round.

convenience makes people take things for granted , cold beer is an example , most places in the US you can buy a cold beer at a convenience store form roughly 9am to 9pm with some variation , but lets say one day you couldn't buy cold beer , well the rush of people to stock up on warm beer and buy a spare fridge for the garage would be overwhelming , cause what would you do if a cold beer want easily available.

one of the fastest ways to get people to want more of somthing is to tell them they can only have X amount at a time , gas is an example of this tell everyone 5 gallons per purchase and you will have them filling their cars every time they get to half a tank and they will be waiting in lines to get it. have a steady supply of gas and the majority will be under a 1/4 before they fill their tank and no lines will exist.

when you draw attention to something people fixate on it , logic is gone and they have to have it.


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## oz in SC V2.0 (Dec 19, 2008)

You can never have too much ammo or too many magazines.


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## alleyyooper (Apr 22, 2005)

Saw this on the Remington site a while back.

*The Remington plant in Arkansas annouced a 30 million dollar new plant to make ammo to try to keep up with demand, ready in a year.*

Our local wal mart has a sign up on the ammo shelves. It list the delivery day the shelves could be stocked. It says in big letters to be there and if your late don't ask.
The sell it right out of the shipping box. Local gun shop has kept prices the same as they were but they also limit you to so many rounds so the next guy can buy some. Don't even try to buy a box and then go back a couple hours latter to buy another one. They remember who bought today.
As long as people will pay the crazy prices like 11 cents a shot that is what they will sell it for. If people do not buy due to stupid prices it sets till the price comes down.

We can still buy most shot gun shells off the shelf, Most reloading powder and bullets are on shelves also. Some times the large rifle and pistol primers are all gone but next week they will have more and you are limited on the amount there too.
The local gun shop really does try to keep every one shooting a bit at least instead of letting horders and scalpers to buy every thing.

 Al


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## paradox (Nov 19, 2012)

oz in SC V2.0 said:


> This website searches online for the best price.
> http://www.gunbot.net/


ammoseek is good too and it catches some things gunbot misses. If you check both of them regularly you have a decent chance of finding something.


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## Glade Runner (Aug 1, 2013)

I get most of my ammo mail order and pretty much everything I've ordered has come in. Some has come very quickly and at pretty good prices. Then yesterday I was in a gun store and they had 7.62 X 51, 7.62 X 39, 5.56 X 45m .45 ACP FMJ, 9MM FMJ, and .40 S&W FMj by the thousands of rounds at quite good prices. Federal, MagTec and Fiocchi mostly. Guess it just depends on where you look. A certain amount of persistence seems to be required. The only thing I'm waiting on at the moment is some .338 Winchester magnum and 5,000 rounds of .22 that I ordered from CMP.


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## Shrek (May 1, 2002)

There have been no ammunition shortages in our area for quite awhile. Prices are higher than they were 5 years ago but the three gun shops I purchase my ammo from stock plenty for regular customers as well as the LEOs.

The shop I prefer to purchase from in addition to being a bit lower priced also offers a NRA membership card discount of 10%.

As far as the cheaper questionable quality off brand ammo available at places like WM I wouldn't know as I steer wide and clear of those big box store places for my ammunition.


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## ET1 SS (Oct 22, 2005)

I was at the gun store Wednesday, they are out-of-stock. Word is that most retailers in this area are out-of-stock.


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## ace admirer (Oct 5, 2005)

Olympic quality match 22 ammo is and has been $19.00 per box of 50, hordes are even getting into that market.


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## Malamute (Sep 15, 2011)

I've found 22's and other ammo at wal mart. It doesnmt last long, but I just check when I'm in. several times I've found it still on pallets waiting to be stocked, the counter people at sporting goods didnt even know it was there until I pointed it out. They were happy to get it out, but it doesnt make it to the shelves generally, it sells before they get it that far. Prices have been "normal" for the most part at wal mart. one local shop has been fairly well stocked all along, with a few gaps in their stock. Prices have been close to normal, unless they couldnt find things at regular prices.

I've bought a little 22 for myself, and a bit for others that couldnt find it, same for pistol ammo. I reload most that I shoot though. Reloading supplies seem to be getting a bit better over time.




Dixie Bee Acres said:


> Homeland security is buying a lot of it.


 Whatever homeland security is buying (or contracted to buy) is a drop in the bucket compared to commercial supplies and demand.


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## Shrek (May 1, 2002)

The shop I trade at had CCI .22lr hollow points for $8.60 per hundred count box today and I picked up three boxes while picking up some .38 snake shot loads to replace the ones I used the last couple weeks as the snakes started heading to the high ground around my house during the flooding.


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## goodatit (May 1, 2013)

the reason there is a shortage has a lot to do with homeland security. they not to long ago ordered 1.6 billion rounds of ammo. very recently ordered 1.4 billion more rounds. so ammo manufacturers are working for the gov't right now.  http://www.humanevents.com/2013/02/...d-with-enough-ammo-for-24-year-long-iraq-war/


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## GunMonkeyIntl (May 13, 2013)

I work for one of the major manufacturers and I can attest that the run is not over. We're running at capacity and still taking more new orders than back-orders filled. Those of us that work in the field even have trouble sometimes getting ammo for testing and demos when we need it.

The two biggest droughts are .22 lr and reloading components. The scarcity of components at retail is that it is difficult to justify selling seperate components when you have such deep back-orders. And the issue with .22 lr is that it is the one caliber that the average Joe can afford to stockpile. Unfortunately, rimfire, metalic centerfire, and shotshell are all made on very different machines. Even though we manufacture from raw commodities, soup to nuts, we can only surge our bandwidth to meet demand within product categories. We're increasing capacity, but that takes time. 

Most of the pistol and rifle calibers that were difficult to get a year ago are shoring up, but I have a feeling that the .22lr drought will continue for some time. 

I'm afraid the thing we're going to have to watch out for is when the foreign market spins up to catch some of this demand and starts flooding our market with cheaply made rimfire ammo. Despite its comparatively cheap price, rimfire is some of the most difficult ammunition to make reliably and of high quality. But, unfortunately, when it is made poorly, it can hurt a shooter just as bad as the big stuff. 

I've been known to shoot some cheap, steel-case import centerfire from time to time, but you won't catch me dead with cheap, imported rimefire ammo - or, rather, you might.


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## GunMonkeyIntl (May 13, 2013)

goodatit said:


> the reason there is a shortage has a lot to do with homeland security. they not to long ago ordered 1.6 billion rounds of ammo. very recently ordered 1.4 billion more rounds. so ammo manufacturers are working for the gov't right now. http://www.humanevents.com/2013/02/...d-with-enough-ammo-for-24-year-long-iraq-war/


No. 

Not much else to say about that. Just no.


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## Chuck R. (Apr 24, 2008)

I was at a local shop today swapping a SIG220ST for a S&W M&P 9mm Pro 5â and he was completely stocked. Donât know how he does it. Last month I bought 10K in SPs from him also. He also had over 30 ARs in stock from different companies. Swung by WalMart, and the shelves were bare except for .357 and .40.

Chuck


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## GREENCOUNTYPETE (Jul 25, 2006)

my local dealer has all the AR's you could want at normal prices he deals in RRA so right around 950 to 1250 for most, the local walmart has so many AR's they have them filling the shotgun case also 
prices ranging from 7 something to 1100 depending on the options 

the local dealer also has some of most every ammo back on the shelves , but no 22 

oddly enough i hear about the gov buying up so much ammo, but 40 was one of the first things back on the shelves , and it is what most gov agencies are feeding their side arms.223 was also not that long in coming back but 9mm has taken much longer 

I really think consumers are doing this , just think if every American gun owner bought a brick of 22 you would be talking 50-60 billion rounds that makes the governments 3 billion look like not so much 

I don't know about you but 500 rounds if you include 22 is not very much 
now if you had 500 rounds of 30-06 it would be a fair amount unless you shot competitive high power
but 500 rounds of pistol ammo can go rather fast so not a huge amount , 200 is a normal break in for a new pistol 
the American consumers could easily absorb a hundred billion rounds , 2 k in 22lr , 1.5k of pistol ammo a 500 of high power or shot shells even if 50 million people stocked that 4k of ammo it would be 200 billion rounds , and thatch not even that large a storage of ammo.


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## Pops2 (Jan 27, 2003)

Yeah consumers are doing it. 
The fed contracts are pay on delivery over an extended period at a govt set price. The manufacturers make more money on the private civilian market. Additionally the govt has their own production facility that sells to the civilian market at times especially the 50 cal, & linked 762 & 556.


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## Jim-mi (May 15, 2002)

Last weekend at an auction, I witnessed a guy pay $55 for a brick of 22's.......


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## TnAndy (Sep 15, 2005)

Pops2 said:


> Part of the problem is hoarders that don't understand when they have enough. I've literally heard a guy say at the cabelas here, "when are you getting bricks (of 22)...... i only have ten bricks right now.....I want about ten more."
> That's 5000 rounds of 22lr.


"Enough" is a very subjective call.....although buying in today's environment has to hurt, it won't hurt as much as when 22lr goes to a dollar a round......followed shortly thereafter by nobody will sell you a round for ANY amount of green paper trash.




GREENCOUNTYPETE said:


> for a long time the survival boards have been saying stock up on 22lr , one day it may even be the currency , people finally listened all at once the first time they couldn't get it.



Yep. Clearly that day is a lot closer. Why more people didn't listen is beyond me. The handwriting on the wall was in day glow orange.

Years back, I would stop by Wideners and pick up a 5k case of Rem22lr for shade over 100 bucks. So I did on a pretty regular basis ( along with .223, 9mm, 762x39, powder, primers, bullets, etc )....because it was clearly dirt cheap at the time, and most likely paper money was going to turn into lousy toilet paper. Today, that stuff is stacked wide and deep.....along with the implements that use them.

But guess what ? 

Those same people moaning about ammo shortages and hoarding are going to be the same ones without food, water, fuel, tools, livestock, toilet paper, solar setups, gardens, fruit trees, firewood, and so on, when THOSE things follow the same pattern, and their 401k is completely worthless. That's when we 'hoarders' will REALLY be demonized for turning our labor into real wealth instead of putting it in a bank for 0.05% interest (when inflation is running 8-10%).

And, hey.....if I'm wrong, be SURE to make it to my estate sale. It will be interesting


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## Pops2 (Jan 27, 2003)

TnAndy said:


> "Enough" is a very subjective call.....although buying in today's environment has to hurt, it won't hurt as much as when 22lr goes to a dollar a round......followed shortly thereafter by nobody will sell you a round for ANY amount of green paper trash.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Like the stock market it's all overreaction to noise. 2000 rounds of 22Lr is enough for me to feed the family for at least 5 years if I only use it for slaughter & hunting. So yeah for MOST people 10000 rounds is probably a good minimum. Truthfully most people trying to hoard NOW will waste the ammo as they ARE Johnny come latelies who are unlikely to know or research proper storage techniques and much of that ammo will spoil before they use it.


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## TnAndy (Sep 15, 2005)

Pops2 said:


> Truthfully most people trying to hoard NOW will waste the ammo as they ARE Johnny come latelies who are unlikely to know or research proper storage techniques and much of that ammo will spoil before they use it.


Storage isn't that hard. I've got some that has been literally laying around for nearly 40 years.

Mid 70's, local gun store went out of business and they held an auction. I bought a couple cases of Remington 12ga shells in some odd (to me) loads.....like #4 "nitro mag", and stuff like that......and a brick of 22lr "rat shot"....the stuff with the crimped shell end and some real small shot inside. All of it went for peanuts, which is why I bought it. Well, it being really odd stuff ( I mean how much 22 rat shot does one really go thru ? ), I still have most of it around. I've done nothing special to store it....shelf in the shop, shelf in the basement, moved here and there over the years, that kind of thing....I mean I don't let it sit out in the rain, but that's the only 'preventative' thing I've done with it. From time to time, I'll shoot some of it. Never had any fail to ignite.

Got one wood crate left of 1200rd Chinese 762.x39 I've had since the mid 80's....haven't opened it, but I'd bet it's as good as the day they made it. They did pack them in individual boxes ( from others I did open ) of 30rds in some kind of grease paper.


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## tarbe (Apr 7, 2007)

GunMonkeyIntl said:


> Most of the pistol and rifle calibers that were difficult to get a year ago are shoring up, *but I have a feeling that the .22lr drought will continue for some time. *



My gut has been telling me the same thing.

I have given away or sold perhaps 3,000 22 LR from my stash over the past 8 months, but I have not personally shot more than 100 rounds. And I will be very stingy with what I have left, until I see a sustained change in the market!

Tim


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## Shrek (May 1, 2002)

I have some ammunition stored that my father bought in the late 1970s. I vacuum store it cool and dry in gasket and suction valve plastic buckets with mil std desiccant packs that I salvaged from the trash at the DoD subcontractor I retired from and at least once a year oven dry the packs to revitalize them when I inspect the metal for any signs of tarnish or mold.

As I purchase new ammunition for my stores if I need an active use box of ammo I date the newer box adding it to the bottom of the bucket as I repack the contents.

I also do a 10 to 15 percent qual test of any ammunition I pull for active use by doing single shots. 

Although I have only had one shell of a box of shotgun shells fail the single shot qual testing of ammo I rotate out of my put back stores and gave that box of 24 to a friend who reloads to disassemble and reuse components if he chose, I still qual test the contents of my stored ammo before shelving it on my gun rack or using it for hunting.

When I gave my reloading friend the box of qual fire failed ammo I said he would probably laugh at me for disposing of a full box just because of one dud but he just looked at the primer strike of the three day old dud I brought to him to dispose of and started disassembling the remaining cartridges to salvage the shot and deactivate the primers before adding the salvaged parts to his reload stock.

My DoD spec training influenced storage may seem eccentric to some but it leaves me more confident of my stored virgin manufactured ammo and my friend who reloads uses gasketed containers and renewable desiccant packs to store his reserve supplies also and has offered me good deals on dove hunting ammo before.

He also is a trusted safe disposal of duds to me and when I noticed that he stores ammo and reload supplies as I do, he reminded me of the "keep your powder dry " adage. :shrug:


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## Dutch 106 (Feb 12, 2008)

Hey,
I was wondering about the state of my 22rf and when I got past 25,000 rounds I figured I had enough.
Dutch


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## GREENCOUNTYPETE (Jul 25, 2006)

I was at the LGS over the weekend 

he had some aguila 22 at 44 dollars a brick , some 100 round packs of shorts , and a few others , but no bulk 22lr yet , he said they have gotten shipments and all in all it has gotten a lot better 

now my rant , what happened to #11 percussion caps i bout them dec 15th for 4.65 and now they are 6.75 , and compared to some online prices that looks good 

really there was a run on percussion caps for muzzle loading rifles , crazy , ok fine i was probably part of the problem on that i bought a few back in dec , i thought what would be a several year supply , then i started shooting more smoke pole and now it doesn't look like so many , really what kind of crazy would shoot 50 rounds from a muzzle loader each month , apparently my kind of crazy


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## wildcat6 (Apr 5, 2011)

Everything but shotgun ammo is hard to find around here. I really thought it would have let up by now but it hasn't really. Problem around here is the flea market vendors buy up everything and then double or triple the price of it at their booths. It has gotten so bad that many stores limit how much you can buy at one time now bt the vendors beat that by getting all their family members to buy as well.


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## paradox (Nov 19, 2012)

wildcat6 said:


> Everything but shotgun ammo is hard to find around here. I really thought it would have let up by now but it hasn't really. Problem around here is the flea market vendors buy up everything and then double or triple the price of it at their booths. It has gotten so bad that many stores limit how much you can buy at one time now bt the vendors beat that by getting all their family members to buy as well.


We have this discussion a lot at my house. We know some of those people who have enough free time to be at the stores when it hits the shelves and then sell it at a profit. The ammo buyer in me is pretty irritated at them. But the free market lover in me reminds myself quite frequently that every store owner on the planet buys things at one price and sells it at a higher one. Does that mean I have multiple personalities?:stars:


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## SteveD(TX) (May 14, 2002)

To the OP - I notice you're in the Dallas area. There is a gun show at least one per month somewhere in the area; there's a pretty good supply there with quite a few high volume ammo dealers competing with each other. Prices are mostly high but they are high everywhere. Last time I was in Academy (in Mesquite maybe a month ago) they had a pretty good selection too. If you're looking for cheap or even reasonable prices, good luck.


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## Shrek (May 1, 2002)

I picked up a 50 round box each of .38, .357, .40, .45, .30-06 , .9mm and another 100 round box of .22s today spending less than $170. Prices are higher than they were in the 1990s but I would look really funny going to the shooting range with my Lone Ranger cap pistols even if I could find red roll caps for them :rotfl:


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## hefty lefty (Aug 22, 2013)

The bottom line is that people are still buying like there is no tomorrow because they have a not wholly unjustified suspicion there may not be. I know some very wealthy people who complain. I told them, "Well, you knew this was going to happen. You should have built an ammo plant with all that money and by now you'd have paid it off running three shifts." 

If there is no collapse, there will be a monster ammo glut in four or five years. And if there is we will have other fish to fry. That's why production has not expanded to slake the demand. 

My family did the prepper thing (we called it survivalist) pretty hard during the Carter malaise era. So this is not my first rodeo and I figure it may and may not happen.


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## Chuck R. (Apr 24, 2008)

Iâm currently TDY down in Leesville, LA (at Ft. Polk) and while checking out a couple gun stores both had pretty decent selections of centerfire ammo, again zero .22LR.


I donât know how you non-reloaders do it. For a while reloading components were in short supply, but now thatâs coming back, and the prices are also returning to normal. Local shop has primers and powder in stock; they literally had 50,000 WIN SPs arrive last week. Today I ordered another 2000 9mm cast bullets and instead of the 4-5 week delay, they actually shipped today, so thatâs also coming back on line. I normally shoot between 9-12000 rds of handgun a year (mostly 9mm & .45ACP), and thereâs no way I could do it this year buying commercial due to both cost and availability. 


I know that this stockpiling/hording craze will end sooner or later, people only have so much disposable income theyâre willing to put aside for âwhat ifsâ. Iâm surprised it lasted this long, and I did get caught short on .22LR and SP primerss, it will not happen again.

Chuck


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## Cabin Fever (May 10, 2002)

FWIW, I was to a gun auction last weekend and off-brand (Russian?) .22lr was selling for ~$40/brick.


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## wildcat6 (Apr 5, 2011)

paradox said:


> We have this discussion a lot at my house. We know some of those people who have enough free time to be at the stores when it hits the shelves and then sell it at a profit. The ammo buyer in me is pretty irritated at them. But the free market lover in me reminds myself quite frequently that every store owner on the planet buys things at one price and sells it at a higher one. Does that mean I have multiple personalities?:stars:


Well, I can't answer that for you lol....But, it is very frustrating that they do this. As long as people keep buying from them they will continue to influence the local markets on ammo.


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## Shrek (May 1, 2002)

I picked up a 500 count box of hollow point 22lr today for $27


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## tarbe (Apr 7, 2007)

Just a little thread necromancy, to remind all of us that we should always be prepared as these sort of ordeals have a way of occuring in cycles...


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