# HELP! HELP NOW! Goat can't swallow; drooling



## jill.costello (Aug 18, 2004)

Never had this before; just went out for am feed and goat wouldn't touch her grain. staring, head shaking, drooling & coughing a bit. Very cold last night. Gums grey. tried to give oral warm water & nutridrench but she just drools it out. No obstruction visible in mouth. Gave 12cc Vit B Complex sub Q & 3 cc Banamine SubQ (to make me feel better- it's all I have)

Felt throat for lump or obstruction and can';t feel anything compelling, but she coughs and drools when we squeeze her glottis.

IDEAS???? I don't have a tube and I don't have an IV fluid set :Bawling:

Am also trying to find an emergency vet (on a Sunday...:Bawling


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## fishhead (Jul 19, 2006)

Have you checked her temp?

My only experience with this is when one of my wethers had listeriosis. He would shove his whole face in the bucket to drink but couldn't swallow and it would all run out when he lifted his head. His temp started at 106.5


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## wintrrwolf (Sep 29, 2009)

oh dear it sounds like she may have something caught in her airway, partially blocking oxygen intake. I hope you can find a vet soon.


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## fishhead (Jul 19, 2006)

Your hardware store should have tubing.

Good luck!


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## Jyllie63 (Dec 30, 2004)

Oh I hope you can help her!


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## HappyFarmer (Jun 17, 2006)

Sounds like Listeriosis if there is no blockage. Her temperature is important.

Listeriosis treatment is 6cc procaine pennicillan every 6 hours for a 100# goat. Is the B complex Fortified? If so 12 cc should be enough, if not you are underdosing Thiamine. Pure Thiamine would be better. Dose again in 6 hours then every 12 hours. Vet scripts Dexamethazone for swelling, Banamine for the pain. 

If you get a hold of a vet have them give thiamine intravenously for the first dose. Do not tube that goat if you suspect a blockage! She could possibly be choking on her cud also. 

HF


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## jill.costello (Aug 18, 2004)

OK, great vet, agrees with Listeriosis and is having me come to her house for IV fluids, Thiamine, LA 200, etc.

Goat is standing comfortably now in the garage in front of the space heater (her choice) and wearing a winter vest (vet's idea). Still cannot swallow, but seems more relaxed now with the Banamine on board.

Anything else I can do while we wait to meet the vet for the supplies? Also, what kind of "aftercare" or prevention should I implement from now on??? this snuck up on us!


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## beccachow (Nov 8, 2008)

Drat, it DOES sound like Listeriosis. Keep us posted, I'll keep you guys in my thoughts. One thng though, isn't Listeriosis contagious?


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## jill.costello (Aug 18, 2004)

just read up on it; only really affects humans that are immunosuppressed or the elderly or infants......


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## HappyFarmer (Jun 17, 2006)

Listeriosis is not contageous but there are other diseases with similar symptoms that can be deadly. Until you see recovery keep saliva contained & away from your person.
HF


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## dm9960 (Nov 26, 2009)

wish I could do something to help, hope all is better


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## fishhead (Jul 19, 2006)

Make sure you restart her gut with some yogurt or probios or cud.

I've got my fingers crossed for her.


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## jill.costello (Aug 18, 2004)

Yes, I will have to steal a cud from my other doe. Can my other goats catch listeriosis if they DON'T share a water bucket and DON'T share a yard? The little one that's sick lives by herself; always has, because the full-size goats pick on her. They DO share a Shed, but have no contact, there is a solid wall between them.


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## fishhead (Jul 19, 2006)

I just thought of something else. Is she up to date on her tetanus shot?


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## BackfourtyMI. (Sep 3, 2007)

How's she acting now? Are you sure she's not choking? If not it sounds like Listeriosis to me too. poor little thing & it's been so cold in our part of the country too. You can always make her a coat out of an old sweatshirt too.

Keep us ;posted on how she's doing OK?


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## Minelson (Oct 16, 2007)

oh I hope she is ok! Keep us posted ...prayers and hugs to you both


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## jill.costello (Aug 18, 2004)

OK, she's much brighter now. She has 2cc Thiamine on board, 4.5cc LA 200, and 300cc of fluids SQ. She also took a dose of NutriDrench, so she's swallowing again, thank goodness! Picking at her hay, and generally more alert.

We've got the temp in the garage up around 30 degrees, and she's deeply bedded with straw, as well as still wearing my winter vest (front legs through the arm holes and zipped up along her back; perfect fit! )

I'm headed out to give the other two goats some warm water, and bed them deeper (wind chill is 8 degrees! They are in their shed, but still.....)

Will keep you posted!


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## jill.costello (Aug 18, 2004)

fishhead said:


> I just thought of something else. Is she up to date on her tetanus shot?


She had her CD&T about 1.5 years ago; gave her such a hard knot in her skin that I didn't repeat it this year (she has gotten 3-4 doses over her 5 year lifetime)

Now that the Thiamine and fluids have perked her up, I'm not as worried about tetanus....


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## Minelson (Oct 16, 2007)

Whew! Glad she is better  You have a very busy day on your hands!


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## fishhead (Jul 19, 2006)

With such a quick recovery I wouldn't think it was listeriosis but I don't know for sure.

Glad to hear she's perking up.


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## jill.costello (Aug 18, 2004)

Yes, I keep reading about the differences and similarities between Polio and Listeriosis. She has been QUICKLY treated for both (the Thiamine for Polio, the LA 200 and fluids for Listeriosis).

I am very lucky in that I only have three goats, and this particular one is The Pet, so when I go to feed, I am very "Aware" of her attitude and mood. Last night, she gobbled her grain just like every other night. This AM, she didn't even notice I put it in front of her, so I believe I caught this within 8-10 hours of it presenting; VERY LUCKY for her/me!


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## dm9960 (Nov 26, 2009)

great news!


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## canadiangirl (Jul 25, 2004)

Also take a look at your hay and grains for mold if you think it was listeriosis. A friend of mine just had a sick doe over the holidays with this.


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## garyh141 (Mar 7, 2008)

I just lost a doe to listeriosis. And that sounds exactly like the simptons that she had. The Thiamine is a very good idea but if it is listeriosis she need procaine penicillin ASAP

Read http://www.tennesseemeatgoats.com/articles2/listeriosis.html


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## FarmerChick (Dec 28, 2009)

wow I use that website for goat info also
they have the best articles and basic good to know goat info

I have used this website forever--many many moons..LOL


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## jill.costello (Aug 18, 2004)

garyh141 said:


> I just lost a doe to listeriosis. And that sounds exactly like the simptons that she had. The Thiamine is a very good idea but if it is listeriosis she need procaine penicillin ASAP
> 
> Read http://www.tennesseemeatgoats.com/articles2/listeriosis.html


I believe the LA 200 is oxytetracycline, another fast-acting antibiotic used for listeriosis.

She is doing fabulously well, just got more SQ fluids, but did drink on her own and took another 60 cc oral dose of warm water and an ounce of nutridrench.

She'll get 2cc of Thiamine again before bed.


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## Briza (Aug 11, 2009)

Maybe as a follow up you can get a fecal done. 
The stress of this will have suppressed her immune function allowing any resident parasites to take advantage.
B~


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## beccachow (Nov 8, 2008)

Yeah, Thiamine can't ever hurt. I hope she continues to improve.


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## Caprice Acres (Mar 6, 2005)

I lost a wether to either polio or listeriosis back when I just had two for pets, didn't know how to diagnose/treat at home, and thought that vets knew what was best... My vet of COURSE didn't know what was wrong with it and diagnosed pneumonia... Of course, to him, EVERYTHING (including diarrhea!) is pneumonia.

Glad to hear you have a good vet and that your goat is doing better - hope to hear about a full recovery!


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## fishhead (Jul 19, 2006)

I lost my little wether to listeriosis because I stopped the antibiotics too soon. He was doing great on day 4 and did a 180 on day 5. Couldn't swallow and his head was rotated to the left.


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## garyh141 (Mar 7, 2008)

Our doe we lost had listeriosis but also had preg toxemia, ketosis and pneumonia. She was paralyzed on her right side of her head (ears, jaw, "throat" so drenching was basically drooling out or drowning her, eyelid did not close). Onset of symptoms was about 2 hours (from feed time to first sign of drooling). She actually died during surgery for c-section, but was due to all the complications. They thought the babies were dead and was poisoning her system. She ended up dieing and 3 spoiled brats are living in our house (can you imagine!!!) being bottle fed. But they're cute brats!
Vet said listeriosis (in Missouri) is appearing frequently this year due to all the rain. If I understood him correctly, listeria is not contagious but could be contracted through the same source (ie hay, browse area or whatever). He said it was not something we could have prevented, it just is...that we did everything right with our early detection, jumped on the treatment process but she just had too many things going against her I guess.

Glad she is better. Whether goat polio or listeria, be aggressive in your treatments and as fishhead said, don't stop too soon.
Sandra


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## jill.costello (Aug 18, 2004)

Just checking in; she's still improving. Opened the door from the kitchen to the attached garage where she is staying, and was greeted with an up-goat; in her hay. :clap:

I gave her 1.5cc Thiamine, and offered her a bucket of warm water which she drank greedily; about 20oz. Also gave her the 60cc oral syringe with the warm water/nutridrench mix and BIG HUGS 

*She will get another 4.5cc dose of the LA 200 this evening, unless someone wants to advise me otherwise... the vet gave me two doses, and said to give them 48 hours apart, under the skin. So her first dose was at 2:00pm yesterday (Sunday the 3rd). Per the vet, she shouldn't get her next dose until 2:00pm TUESDAY, but I keep reading here and there on goat sites that even the LA 200 ("long acting") needs to be given closer together than THAT....(remember, this is going under the skin, not in the muscle..)

check-in: LA-200 Sub-Q dosing schedule for Caprine treatment of Listeriosis*??


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## jill.costello (Aug 18, 2004)

I just found this article, written by a non-vet, about her experience with Listeriosis. Quite obviously, her goats were stricken much more severley than mine (and bigger goaties, too), but she did successfully use the LA 200 at the every-48 hour dosing, so now I'm on the fence about it again.... here's the link...

http://celticknotlm.com/Listeriosis.htm


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## goatkid (Nov 20, 2005)

I'm glad your goat is doing better. With her quick response to treatment, my bet is that you're dealing with polio.


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## Ross (May 9, 2002)

I'd have started with Procaine Pen or PenG too, Listeria is a gram pos bacteria and well treated with penicilan. Tetracycline is a broad spectrum but it works OK too, smaller doses and obviously its working so I'd keep her on it! I'm wondering why the thiamin or lowering the dosage of thiamin at least. I'd use a B complex unless I was sure it was polio. I'd also keep up the banamine..... although if your vet agreed dexamthasone is better. Monitor her symptoms and do not stop too soon. I may have missed it but what was her temperature? Two treatments sounds a little weak to me, even with a spaced apart LA drug. With such a fast recovery I wonder about Listeria, we've had it in sheep here and it was considerably more serious than that


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## jill.costello (Aug 18, 2004)

The Thiamine is to keep her rumen functioning through hard stress; it IS the "cure" for Polio, but it is also indicated whenever a goat has been off feed & water and stressed.

The Thiamine at 2cc is a huge whack, because the bottle of Thiamine I was dispensed is the 500mg/mL strength. So she'll still be "high" at 1.5cc doses; she's only about a 80-90# goatie!

Because she is a five-year old, not a youngster, is why we are leaning toward Listerioisis. Also, we have had a horrible stretch of wet, wet, wet weather (10 weeks of rain!) here in Delaware and EVERYTHING is soggy and moldy. You put out hay, and in less than an hour it is droopy from the mist/drizzle in the air, and the dampness rising up from the ground. Then, just last week, we had the huge blizzard w/24" of snow.....And the night before she got sick we had a sudden, bitter cold come in at 12 degrees, with sub-zero wind chill.
The vet feels that this combination could easily have triggered dormant Listeriosis to manifest.


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## Natural Beauty Farm (Feb 17, 2003)

I'm not a vet but IMO I would
banamine 3cc for 80-90lbs is a lot a once, cut it down to 1cc, it slows the heart rate and puts them in LA LA land at higher dosage rate.
Thymine keep up
LA200 or Biomycin200(no sting carrier) every 24hrs, goats have fast metabolism so it is out after 24hrs


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## jill.costello (Aug 18, 2004)

Yes, the Banamine WAS too much for her, the vet already schooled me on that one... As for the LA 200, I'm going to split the differences of opinions and give her the second dose at 36 hours.....


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## beccachow (Nov 8, 2008)

Jill, you are doing great. Keep doing what you are doing, she is responding positively.


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## HappyFarmer (Jun 17, 2006)

IMO her rapid recovery after dosing with Thiamine once, indicates polio. Her temp still hasn't been posted so all I can say is you should follow your vets recommendations as it's difficult for anyone on the list to make suggestions.

If she were my goat I would not decrease her dosages, in particular her antibiotic. 

My preference would be Procaine Pennicillan as stated prior. Oxytetracyclines also used for treatment. High dosages of antiobiotic are to cross over the blood-brain barrier. There are various kinds of listeriosis and antibiotics recommended vary and by dosage also. If this is truly Listeriosis you are risking the welfare of the doe with a re-lapse if you decrease the dosage.

Goat Medicine by Smith and Sherman explains this well. I'm glad to hear your doe is perking up.
HF


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## Ross (May 9, 2002)

> I'm going to split the differences of opinions and give her the second dose at 36 hours.....


 I think where these bulletin boards excel is in raising great questions you can ask your vet. I wouldn't suggest you change a vets prescription without asking!! 
To clarify when I said the antibiotic treatment sounded a bit weak I meant short in duration over 4 days. The trouble with cutting an antibiotic treatment short is if there are any bacteria left after the treatment, they are typically the strongest in the population if small in number. When the antibiotic is stopped early they could flourish with an even worse infection.


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## LaManchaPaul (May 21, 2008)

Great thread. Glad things are going better. 
Thanks for the link, Jill. Good reading.


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## BackfourtyMI. (Sep 3, 2007)

So glad it sounds like she is well on the mend, no matter what the cause. Nothing worse than having a dear sick pet.

I do agree with ROSS above that 2 doses over a 4 day period don't seem like enough but I am no vet & so far she seems to be doing good.
LA 200 is sold at TSC if you just want a bottle to keep on hand in case needed though.


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