# Wheres Ernie???



## BlueRose (Mar 7, 2013)

Did he and his family go to Africa?


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## elkhound (May 30, 2006)

must be off living life...i bet hes busy with garden and homestead doings.


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## AngieM2 (May 10, 2002)

He takes time off when he gets in a heavy thinking mood. His last postings seem to indicate he was in a thinking change time of life.

It may be awhile before he checks in, or it could be today.


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## Belfrybat (Feb 21, 2003)

The last he posted he and his family were going into bunker mode due to the Ebola case in Dallas. He may still be doing that.


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## unregistered353870 (Jan 16, 2013)

I find a lot of value in many of his posts, but he seemed to be getting into a bad mood or something before he left. Someone called him out for kind of looking down on preppers and then he never posted again.


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## manygoatsnmore (Feb 12, 2005)

Um, that was me....I don't think that would make Ernie leave, would it?


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## unregistered353870 (Jan 16, 2013)

His last post was shortly before yours and he had been posting a lot, so it appeared that way...maybe it was just a coincidence. Hopefully he'll come back eventually.


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## Rainy (Jan 21, 2010)

I always miss him when he is gone.....Hope you and your Family are all doing well Ernie...Come back when you can.


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## Ernie (Jul 22, 2007)

Every time I stop posting there's one of these threads.

I glance at the forum from time to time, though that's gotten more difficult to do now with the administrator's locking things down. However there's very little that I feel requires my attention or input.

I thought I would say this, then I thought better of it, then I prayed about it, and now I'm going to say it because I think it's something you need to hear. Some of you are going to see yourselves in this and get mad and that's fine too. Maybe getting mad is what you need to do in order to make a change.

Much of this forum has become extremely repetitive. Many of you are having the same problems you were having almost a decade ago. Like battered wives, you return to the system and then post all about the latest woe where the system has mauled you somehow. And just like battered wives, you savage people who try to give you advice to get out of the system. How many people have you ran off over the years for trying to tell you that the system was bad and that your voluntary participation in it leads to heartache?

When you want advice on water, or plants, or solar power then there's a dozen other people who can give you that advice (and usually better than I could). And I don't care to participate in the other little dramas that happen when people foolishly return to the same system time after time that is grinding them into little bits. You've been warned and you've had other people show you the path out but you failed to take even the most basic of steps to free yourself beyond putting a sack of beans and a bucket of wheat berries in the basement.

That path is going to disappear pretty soon. And like that battered wife, you're going to be surprised and shocked when the husband you returned to time after time leaves you dying on the kitchen floor.

Brutal truth said in love. I tell my family these same things (and they listen about as well as you do).


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## Jupiter (Dec 30, 2012)

Ernie, 
I'm going to have to respectfully disagree...more people are listening than you realize. We never fully know all the lives we have impacted. Sometimes we get to see the results in action but not always. I always enjoy your posts & even though I don't always agree with everything you might say, you definitely make me think.


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## Eagle-eye (Sep 16, 2014)

Ernie seems to be in that small circle of people who "gets it". If he leaves, our circle is reduced immeasurably. What I hear from the previous post is that you're just sick and tired of saying the same things to people who resist hearing what they don't want to hear.

I get that way too sometimes in my life with people in my family, friends, and social media like this one. I often wonder why I bother about it, since I have freed myself from the treadmill of society why don't I just be happy and let everyone else deal with their own problems? Something in me wants to spread the word and open people's eyes, but in a way it kind of puts me face to face with the thing that I already vanquished in my own life.

Once I stopped all facebook, HT, emails, arguments with friends, reading the news, etc for 3 months. I was never more at peace. I was able to really enjoy the freedom and good things that I have. It occurred to me that I already won the battle with 'the system', so why did I continue to fight it in other people's lives? Somehow I got sucked back in again. I struggle with it, like Ernie I often teeter on the verge of giving it all up and just focusing on my own life.


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## elkhound (May 30, 2006)

* Revelation 18:4King James Version (KJV)*

4 And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, Come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues.


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## bluefish (Jan 27, 2006)

What is getting out of the system? What does that mean?


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## Eagle-eye (Sep 16, 2014)

thermopkt said:


> What is getting out of the system? What does that mean?


Becoming independent. Out of debt, not needing to work your life away. Not having your productivity stolen. Self reliance.


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## elkhound (May 30, 2006)

* Revelation 18 King James Version (KJV)*

18 And after these things I saw another angel come down from heaven, having great power; and the earth was lightened with his glory.
2 And he cried mightily with a strong voice, saying, Babylon the great is fallen, is fallen, and is become the habitation of devils, and the hold of every foul spirit, and a cage of every unclean and hateful bird.
3 For all nations have drunk of the wine of the wrath of her fornication, and the kings of the earth have committed fornication with her, and the merchants of the earth are waxed rich through the abundance of her delicacies.
4 And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, Come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues.
5 For her sins have reached unto heaven, and God hath remembered her iniquities.
6 Reward her even as she rewarded you, and double unto her double according to her works: in the cup which she hath filled fill to her double.
7 How much she hath glorified herself, and lived deliciously, so much torment and sorrow give her: for she saith in her heart, I sit a queen, and am no widow, and shall see no sorrow.
8 Therefore shall her plagues come in one day, death, and mourning, and famine; and she shall be utterly burned with fire: for strong is the Lord God who judgeth her.
9 And the kings of the earth, who have committed fornication and lived deliciously with her, shall bewail her, and lament for her, when they shall see the smoke of her burning,
10 Standing afar off for the fear of her torment, saying, Alas, alas that great city Babylon, that mighty city! for in one hour is thy judgment come.
11 And the merchants of the earth shall weep and mourn over her; for no man buyeth their merchandise any more:
12 The merchandise of gold, and silver, and precious stones, and of pearls, and fine linen, and purple, and silk, and scarlet, and all thyine wood, and all manner vessels of ivory, and all manner vessels of most precious wood, and of brass, and iron, and marble,
13 And cinnamon, and odours, and ointments, and frankincense, and wine, and oil, and fine flour, and wheat, and beasts, and sheep, and horses, and chariots, and slaves, and souls of men.
14 And the fruits that thy soul lusted after are departed from thee, and all things which were dainty and goodly are departed from thee, and thou shalt find them no more at all.
15 The merchants of these things, which were made rich by her, shall stand afar off for the fear of her torment, weeping and wailing,
16 And saying, Alas, alas that great city, that was clothed in fine linen, and purple, and scarlet, and decked with gold, and precious stones, and pearls!
17 For in one hour so great riches is come to nought. And every shipmaster, and all the company in ships, and sailors, and as many as trade by sea, stood afar off,
18 And cried when they saw the smoke of her burning, saying, What city is like unto this great city!
19 And they cast dust on their heads, and cried, weeping and wailing, saying, Alas, alas that great city, wherein were made rich all that had ships in the sea by reason of her costliness! for in one hour is she made desolate.
20 Rejoice over her, thou heaven, and ye holy apostles and prophets; for God hath avenged you on her.
21 And a mighty angel took up a stone like a great millstone, and cast it into the sea, saying, Thus with violence shall that great city Babylon be thrown down, and shall be found no more at all.
22 And the voice of harpers, and musicians, and of pipers, and trumpeters, shall be heard no more at all in thee; and no craftsman, of whatsoever craft he be, shall be found any more in thee; and the sound of a millstone shall be heard no more at all in thee;
23 And the light of a candle shall shine no more at all in thee; and the voice of the bridegroom and of the bride shall be heard no more at all in thee: for thy merchants were the great men of the earth; for by thy sorceries were all nations deceived.
24 And in her was found the blood of prophets, and of saints, and of all that were slain upon the earth.


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## calliemoonbeam (Aug 7, 2007)

Amen Elkhound, my friend! And how about "There are none so blind as those that will not see"? That phrase is often mistakenly referred to as from the Bible, but nevertheless I think it's pretty appropriate to describe what you and Ernie are talking about.

I think what Ernie is referring to by getting out of the system is more about getting past the worldly concerns of money, material things, keeping up with the Jones, concentrating on the earthly excesses, etc. I think he, and I know Elk too, is talking about focusing on the more spiritual side of things, getting right with yourself, your loved ones, your fellow man, and mostly with your God. Am I close Ernie?

I used to consider Ernie pretty much my prepping guru, lol, and I do still prep more than he does. He's found another path for his life and, while I'm making progress in that area, I haven't progressed nearly as far as he has, nor do I agree with him on every point. I do keep prepping because I believe that "God helps those who help themselves", another oft-misquoted line not from the Bible, and it's just in my nature to prepare for uncertain times, having lived through so many already in my life. But that's not the true prepping I believe he's talking about.

And he's right, a lot of people don't believe in it or don't want to hear it, and they really don't want to really hear advice or suggestions for resolving their problems. It's why I don't post nearly as much any more either, as well as a few other people I know. People seem to want to just talk about their problems repeatedly and get sympathy, but not really do anything about them. 

Don't get me wrong, venting is one thing, everybody needs to vent now and then, but to realize you have a problem and to keep doing the same thing and expecting a different outcome or not actively doing anything to change it...well that's not venting, that's playing the victim and, despite my signature line, I don't tolerate victims or fools very well, lol, and I'm sure Ernie feels the same way.

It does seem like we just keep going over the same old stuff over and over on these boards, and after a while you just don't have the patience or energy to take the time to reply when you know people aren't going to listen anyway and that someone else is going to come along in a few days and ask the very same things again. That's my take on it anyway. :shrug:


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## Ernie (Jul 22, 2007)

thermopkt said:


> What is getting out of the system? What does that mean?


This is a good question and worthy of an attempt at answering. I say an attempt because it's also very nearly impossible to answer. I've seen groups of die-hard anarchists fall apart in trying to define that.

Here's my definition of "the system":

The infrastructure and artificers of governance, those who support their existence, and the mythologies that support said governance.

So how exactly do you get out of THAT? It's the evil central government, but also the person in uniform on the corner who carries a gun and makes sure you comply with all of the laws passed by the evil central government. And it's also the sweet soccer mom next door who believes that there should be someone carrying a gun to protect her from the bad people.

You can't hardly get out of that completely. In fact, they generally kill the people who try. Unless, of course, you are dirty, scared, cold, and hungry in which they will use you as an example to keep everyone else in line.

How you "get out of it" is a heart matter and will be unique to each person, largely depending on what their involvement is with it already.

Best I can say is that the honest man should withdraw his support of it and stop allowing proxy violence to be committed against his fellow man in his name.

There are literally hundreds of books written on this topic, from Hobbes and his "Leviathan" to Thoreau and his pond. Best you can do is educate yourself on the subject and pick a side, not because Mother Culture put you there but because you rationally made a decision on your own.


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## unregistered168043 (Sep 9, 2011)

^^Classic Ernie. Welcome back.


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## Terri (May 10, 2002)

Ernie, I do not actually like the system, but I need it. So, I stay in it.

Would I like to homestead for real with a hand made house and a hand driven well? Yes, yes I would. HOWEVER, without insurance I could not afford the meds that keep me on my feet and functioning, as the cheapest mail order ones cost $2,900 per month. So we must live in town and work at a regular job that offers benefits. 

We bought the house with the biggest lot we could afford that was within commute distance, which was about an acre, and I homestead the back yard. It is what we can do.

Lastly, I am not single. My husband LOVES cities, and he does not actually WANT to go live in a hand made home. And he is fine man, and a keeper!

You have made the break and I salute you! 

I enjoy your posts very much. But, I suspect that I am not the only person here who CANNOT make the break, for one reason or another.


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## Ernie (Jul 22, 2007)

calliemoonbeam said:


> I think what Ernie is referring to by getting out of the system is more about getting past the worldly concerns of money, material things, keeping up with the Jones, concentrating on the earthly excesses, etc. I think he, and I know Elk too, is talking about focusing on the more spiritual side of things, getting right with yourself, your loved ones, your fellow man, and mostly with your God. Am I close Ernie?


Not really, but not absolutely off the mark either.  

There are thousands and thousands of hours of praying, discussing with my wife, reading, and thinking that has led me to where I am today. I can't sum it up for you in something small enough to be put on a bumper sticker.

As for God helping those who help themselves, that's not from the bible. In fact, it's from Aesop's Fables and was a line said by Hercules. It's not "God helps those ..." but rather "The Gods help those ..." and Hercules was referring to the pagan Greek Gods.

The bible gives you a pretty consistent theme that says that all our work is dust and we are to look specifically to the Lord. Now that doesn't mean we should sit on our butts and wait for ravens to show up with the food. In many ways, the work we do is edifying to us and others and glorifying to God. If you see that what you're doing ISN'T that way then you need to make a change.

But we should never forget that it's God who controls the results of our labor.

That's not entirely what this is about, but I thought I'd cover it. Essentially there's very little I have to say that hasn't been said already. If you want to hear what Ernie has to say on a topic then a quick forum search will find probably a dozen places where I've spoken on the same topic before, and sometimes even in contradictory fashion from year to year.

I'm not a prepper and I have very little place on a prepping forum now. I'm not a survivalist because I don't give a darn about my survival in the grand scheme of things. My survival and comfort are in the hands of someone smarter and more powerful than I. 

So don't seek for me in Babylon. I'm not there.


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## Ernie (Jul 22, 2007)

Terri said:


> I enjoy your posts very much. But, I suspect that I am not the only person here who CANNOT make the break, for one reason or another.


It's not about your physical location or what type of home you live in.

I wouldn't cease to believe what I believe if you put me in a condo, or an apartment, or a suburban home, or a prison cell. Would you?


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## calliemoonbeam (Aug 7, 2007)

My like button is schizophrenic, lol, but consider the above posts liked. 

If you'll notice Ernie, I said that line was MISquoted as being from the Bible, I know it didn't come from there. I had heard it came from Algernon Sydney in the 1600s, but I guess your source predates mine, lol. But yeah, I agree pretty much with what you said, but I feel an inner push to keep prepping for myself and hopefully to help others if given the opportunity. We all have to listen to our own inner voices.


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## AngieM2 (May 10, 2002)

Hi Ernie's
Good to see you posting some.


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## partndn (Jun 18, 2009)

I'm sometimes guilty of what Ernie was saying. I'm not offended. I'm not down on myself, because I am still headed in the right direction. Moving away from the system is slow or even flat at times. 

From a prepping standpoint (earthly prepping), we each decide what is our goal. Goals change. Change takes time, and certainly dependent on each individual circumstance and how we feel led to get from point A to point B, and so on.

From a soul prepping standpoint, I have peace for mine. Moving in the right direction is a life-long effort for any human. 

I agree with Jupiter that none of us know how "repeating" ourselves may positively impact folks we never see or know of. 

I'm not where I want to be, but I can look back over my life and see where I should have known better, but repeated some mistakes. But I also see that the more recent in view, the less frequent the foolishness. 

This favorite makes me grin every time I read it..

*Proverbs 26:11

As a dog returns to his vomit, so a fool returns to his folly.*


Happy to see you Ernie


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## Terri (May 10, 2002)

Ernie said:


> It's not about your physical location or what type of home you live in.
> 
> I wouldn't cease to believe what I believe if you put me in a condo, or an apartment, or a suburban home, or a prison cell. Would you?


Then I guess that I do not understand how you would know if someone had made a "break" or not.

I live in an area with zoning, I pay my taxes and vote, etc. No, I am not at all happy with the way the system runs and I am not happy about what most people here value. But they are my neighbors and they also get to make a choice in life. Ad, I pretty much look just like everyone else in this area.


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## Ernie (Jul 22, 2007)

Terri said:


> Then I guess that I do not understand how you would know if someone had made a "break" or not.
> 
> I live in an area with zoning, I pay my taxes and vote, etc. No, I am not at all happy with the way the system runs and I am not happy about what most people here value. But they are my neighbors and they also get to make a choice in life. Ad, I pretty much look just like everyone else in this area.


It comes down to Nicomachean ethics and the debate is about 2,500 years old at least. You can read Aristotle's view on it, or Paul's view on it (in Ephesians), or Ammon Hennacy, or even Daryl Dixon (from the Walking Dead).

It comes down to being a self-actualized human being. To having your own sense of self-determinism. 

For instance, we are friends with this one family and they insisted on putting their children in public school because it's the "normal" thing to do. Yet they complain about it all the time and it's a huge source of stress in their lives. They say they wish to homeschool, but yet they don't actually ever seem to get around to making the steps to do so. 

Doing things because it's "normal" or because other people do so is not self-determinism. Continuing to do those things, even when you see that they are harming you and others you care about, is a type of psychosis. You don't value your own thought process and decision-making skills enough to go against the social conventions or public opinion.

I know lots of people who live in cities and are quite happy with that choice. A large number of them are doing what I would consider God's work there. They don't farm or live in any way a life of self-sufficiency. Heck, one lady I know doesn't even so much as have a microwave in her apartment and jokes that she doesn't even need to make a cup of tea since she lives in New York and can have anything delivered on a moment's notice. She works there as a teacher at a religious institution teaching newly arrived immigrants to speak English and spreading the Gospel.


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## elkhound (May 30, 2006)

just post ever so often so people dont go into ernie detox mode....roflmao.


i think some find it comforting to know you are doing it out there...whatever it is and where ever there is in their minds.


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## Terri (May 10, 2002)

NOW I think that I get it! 

With apologies to Yoda: sort of "Choose, or choose not". 

But live with your choice.


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## Muleman (Nov 8, 2013)

I would not want to take away from this thread or go off into another direction. I also would not want to put words into Ernie's mouth, he has plenty of good ones of his own and if someone has read very many of his post, they are probably fairly sure where he stands on most things. I understand the things he is saying, I also understand the frustrations some of these discussions can bring about to those who have come to a point where they "Get it" so to speak, or have made the "Break" as some have called it. 

Many people want something different, something better, they are not entirely happy, or not happy at all with their life, and society as a whole, but in all honesty very few are really willing to give up anything to get it. I will tell a bit of a personal story about what I mean.

It was probably 15 or more years ago that I thought I had most everything. I had land, I had cattle, I had farm equipment, I had a $100,000.00 semi truck and was my own boss. From the outside it appeared I was on top of the world. However, I was the most unhappy I had ever been. I was constantly gone, constantly running to hold it all together. I finally came to a point where I had enough. I prayed for God to lead me in the right direction, but I held stipulations even at that. I would not be made to look like a failure in front of my family and friends, there were things I would not give up, my land, my possessions all material things. What changed?? Nothing!! It was not until I finally feel down on my knees and said take it all, that I seen a real change. I seen a change in me and I seen a change in how God worked in my life. I believe that is what is being talked about here, real change, honest change. Not change with stipulations. 

This kind of change is not easy. I slowly let the world suck me back in and have been fighting for a while now to get myself back out. Even though I know when I turn everything lose, I will be taken care of, it is still hard to do. I have finally reached a point again where I am willing to turn it all over, maybe this time I will remember the lessons of the past and be able to continue to follow my convictions from here on out? I certainly pray I do. I know there are those who will say they are not in a position to make the kind of change where they let everything go. I know there are some who deep down inside, just believe it is not possible to leave whatever life they have created behind. I know from my own experience it is possible for anyone who chooses too. I also know you must have complete faith that your needs will be provided for, and be focused on the correct goals. 

I do not speak about these things a lot here, because I know there are some who do not agree with my Christian values and ideas. I have no problem with that, every man is entitled to choose his own way, I respect your right to choose and to disagree. I also know until we change inside, nothing will change outside. If we are focused on what we are labeled as, prepper, survivalist, homesteader or whatever we are doing, as to who we are, we will never get to where we need to be. We must change inside, when we do that, we will be unable to continue to be who we are on the outside any longer. In my opinion, that is the point in which we will have made the "Break" from the society we live in. A change on the inside will force you to change who you are outside. That is when you will find not only Can you live a different life, but you will find you have to, your conscience will no longer allow you to simply fit in and go along to get along.


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## BlackFeather (Jun 17, 2014)

Some points I like to comment on. It is clear from reading the book of Daniel that there are princes over the nations, these princes are spirit and are opposed to God, obviously demons. The prince of Persia and the Prince of Greece were specifically mentioned. It seems every nation has an evil spirit governing it in the spirit realm. This country is no different. This is why I won't vote, every man or woman running is most likely influenced by these evil powers, how can I take part in that system. Now, Is it wrong to use your citizenship, The Apostle Paul did on occasion, he used his Roman citizenship to appeal to Caesar, among other things. I don't begrudge anyone who uses their citizenship when needed but be prepared to be betrayed by it or live without it. The Bible also says we are in the world but not to be a part of it. 
If the end times are near as I suspect they are, it says in the Old Testament "Though these three men, Noah, Daniel, and Job, were in it,(the land) they should deliver but their own souls by their righteousness, saith the Lord GOD. So as I see it anyone's only hope is to equal those men's righteousness. However it also says, he that seeks to save his life may lose it in the end, but those that lose their lives for Christ's sake can save it in the end. So every one must be prepared for that possibility as well. The final question, are you here on this earth for yourself or for others? If for yourself... you lose, if for others, then that is what real love is. So the conclusion of the whole matter is to fear God and keep his commands, for it is your spirituality that is more important than how many cans of food you have stored up. Not that preparing to help your family is wrong, ("he that doesn't provide for his family is worse than an infidel") that is a part of love too, but first is the spirit side of things, for if you don't have your spirit right...." the day of the LORD is darkness, and not light. As if a man did flee from a lion, and a bear met him; or went into the house, and leaned his hand on the wall, and a serpent bit him." No matter where you turn your met with bad.


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## Tiempo (May 22, 2008)

Terri, if I may comment on how I see it from my point of view. It's simply about following your own path, even if that path involves a whole lot of bushwacking 

It looks different for everyone. For myself it involved discarding a care for what others thought and expected of me, I never wanted children for example despite huge societal pressure that told me I was 'not a real woman' unless I 'made a family'. Too darn bad, I know myself enough to know that being a mother would be a suffocating prison for me.

I rejected religion completely even though I spent six years in a church school. It wasn't right for me, it had to go.

I chose a trade that everyone told me was foolish and thrived in it.

Some see it as selfish, I see it another way, that it's selfish to expect anyone to conform to their mold as long we hurt no one.

It sounds a little (ok a lot) trite, but follow your path the way you feel is right for you and yours and contentment will fall into place.


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## farmgal (Nov 12, 2005)

I was just pondering this epiphany myself. I see so many without real passions to drive their goals to completion. Making changes or following a plan, without passions, you have no fuel to get you there. It's the energy that pushes you to make changes and move forward. You can give one all the tools and knowledge but without a passion, sedentary lives on. 

The abused spouse. Good way to put it. 

A fly banging his head on the window when the doors open.


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## Lilith (Dec 29, 2012)

Something I would like to point out that I have noticed across HST a LOT lately. There are a lot of "old timers" on HST that have been there done that. It is a huge drawing point for new members, like me to start participating in the discussions. I am new to prepping, new to being an adult, new to being self sufficient - or even trying to get there, I am new to the whole idea of it. I could drag old threads out of the vault to have my questions ignored, or I can ask the same questions you have answered a million times before. I can also give fresh perspective on things you may not have thought of yet. 
I sincerely hope that those of you who have achieved self reliance can remember back to a time when it was all so overwhelming that you didn't "get it" the first time you were told. If you are that tired of watching new folks go through the growing pains of this lifestyle, I would hope you wrote a book I could purchase with the infinite wisdom you have to offer us. It would not be so painful for you when I reread it 7, 8, or 9 times to get what you are saying. Your knowledge is valuable, and I appreciate your time and effort to help people like me who are behind on picking up the clues about what is bound to happen one day - please be glad that i picked up the clues at all.


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## calliemoonbeam (Aug 7, 2007)

*Changed my mind.


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## mzgarden (Mar 16, 2012)

I agree with Lilith and I'll add my dimension. I learn here - and not just about the how to of prepping, homesteading, etc. I was not exposed to discussions of philosophy, social contracts, etc. I am stumbling across references I am unfamiliar with from conversations like this one. It may be a well-worn discussion - maybe 2500 years worn - but for me, it's eye-opening, new ground. I appreciate the perspective of 'why' as much as the 'how to.' I almost always end up requesting some book from the library. Example: I now have on order Hobbes Leviathan and The Summa Theologica of Saint Thomas Aquinas. New to me, old and likely well worn to many of you. I know I will feel like I jumped into the deep end of the pool and much of it will soar over my head the first time around but I would not have known to seek them out without this discussion.


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## bowdonkey (Oct 6, 2007)

Outstanding post Muleman. My experience is similar.


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## Jupiter (Dec 30, 2012)

When we started down this road, we knew no one who had a homestead or even homeschooled. We prayed about our decisions & really felt lead to live like we live. While we do stock up & try to raise a lot of our food, it was never our intent to be preppers. We wanted to live how we felt God led us to live. In the process we have been able to help quite a few people in need by having extras on hand. We also have been blessed with a few friends who share our goals & values. Have we impacted any lives? I hope so, but my main [email protected] this point is following God's plan for our lives.


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## Ernie (Jul 22, 2007)

farmgal said:


> I was just pondering this epiphany myself. I see so many without real passions to drive their goals to completion. Making changes or following a plan, without passions, you have no fuel to get you there. It's the energy that pushes you to make changes and move forward. You can give one all the tools and knowledge but without a passion, sedentary lives on.


A good point. I'd like to point out that political outrage is a terrible fuel for trying to inspire you to win your freedom. It not only burns out fast but the way in which it is revealed to you is particularly designed to pull you one way after the other.

Fear is also a terrible fuel in that it doesn't last long enough to get you through the real labor behind building a new life. 

If you're a Christian, I'd say start by praying that God put His finger on everything in your life that isn't pleasing to Him. But be convicted enough to follow through with this, because after you offer that genuine prayer you're going to find that some friends, some hobbies, and maybe even your livelihood will disappear. And the hardest part will then be letting go of some of those things.

And you can forget any ideas of a gentle transition. If a sculptor is carving a statue, the first whacks on the stone with a hammer and chisel will be quite hard and brutal. As Tozer said, "Piles of ashes will remain where your most precious treasures used to be."


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## whiterock (Mar 26, 2003)

Ernie, new folks come here as old folks leave. You have good advice, opinions and we like to hear from you now and again. We get to missin you bud.
Ed


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## BlueRose (Mar 7, 2013)

Ernie you and Elkhound are the ones that got my mind thinking and got me back on track with my Bible study and I will always thank you for that.

There are quite a few on here that got me to thinking and changing my life. I am taking one issue at a time and working on it. I have my own little place. I am buying extra food even animal food and finding building supplies every month so that next Spring I will be able to get my garden, chickens and goats up and running that will help me be one step closer to where God wants me to be.

Thank all of you on Homesteading Today


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## Ernie (Jul 22, 2007)

BlueRose said:


> Ernie you and Elkhound are the ones that got my mind thinking and got me back on track with my Bible study and I will always thank you for that.


That's awesome. I'm very pleased to hear that. 

In my mind, our study of the Bible and communion with God is the most important thing we do. Everything ELSE we do is just sort of keeping ourselves alive while we do that.


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## unregistered353870 (Jan 16, 2013)

I have to say it's more "interesting" when you're around, Ernie. I hope you continue to post occasionally and don't get too frustrated by the nature of the forum. I get value out of your unique perspective.


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## Ernie (Jul 22, 2007)

jtbrandt said:


> I have to say it's more "interesting" when you're around, Ernie. I hope you continue to post occasionally and don't get too frustrated by the nature of the forum. I get value out of your unique perspective.


What's unique about it? I think my perspective is just a collage drawn from the perspective of other smarter people who came before me. I don't really have any "new" ideas.


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## unregistered353870 (Jan 16, 2013)

Ernie said:


> What's unique about it? I think my perspective is just a collage drawn from the perspective of other smarter people who came before me. I don't really have any "new" ideas.


You're right...unique wasn't the right word...uncommon is probably more fitting, at least as far as here in this forum. It may be more common in other places.


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## Forcast (Apr 15, 2014)

And Ernie some of us just have a little crush on you:ashamed::grin: But I just had 2 teeth pulled so it might be the drugs talking...

No really I enjoy reading your prospective on life.


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## partndn (Jun 18, 2009)

Forcast said:


> And Ernie some of us just have a little crush on you:ashamed::grin: But I just had 2 teeth pulled so it might be the drugs talking...
> 
> No really I enjoy reading your prospective on life.


ound: Oooohhh that made me laugh!


I think I remember sayin the same thing years ago in some sorta similar discussion...  'cept I couldn't blame it on the dentist.:shocked:
eep:


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## Ernie (Jul 22, 2007)

jtbrandt said:


> You're right...unique wasn't the right word...uncommon is probably more fitting, at least as far as here in this forum. It may be more common in other places.


Let me know if you find such a place. I'm tired of always being the odd one.

When I want to hear reinforcement, I go read Thoreau, or listen to Utah Phillips, or read some Ammon Hennacy stories. 

I fully expect the world to be at odds with me because I'm rather at odds with it.


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## unregistered353870 (Jan 16, 2013)

I kind of like the world, but I do appreciate your views. Some of them remind me of a younger me. Some not at all, but they challenge me nonetheless.


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## Rosepath (Feb 18, 2011)

Just listened today to one of the Rich Mullins songs, and it fits this discussion, I think,
"the stuff of earth competes for the allegiance I owe only to the Giver of all good things."
Boy does it. But it doesn't have to win the battle.


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## unregistered353870 (Jan 16, 2013)

Well it looks like Ernie is gone again...he seemed to be in a bad mood again last night and got himself banned...probably intentionally. I know we're not supposed to discuss why people are banned, but I just have a general question for the mods...is it always permanent, or could he possibly come back at some point? I'll miss his perspective, if not the lack of diplomacy and nuance.


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## Tiempo (May 22, 2008)

jtbrandt said:


> Well it looks like Ernie is gone again...he seemed to be in a bad mood again last night and got himself banned...probably intentionally. I know we're not supposed to discuss why people are banned, but I just have a general question for the mods...is it always permanent, or could he possibly come back at some point? I'll miss his perspective, if not the lack of diplomacy and nuance.


IDK, there were some pretty egregious personal insults going on. It's a shame, he did have some interesting viewpoints that gave many food for thought, for better or worse.


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## whiterock (Mar 26, 2003)

I think he just put that up on his name. Probably to avoid the bother


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## bowdonkey (Oct 6, 2007)

whiterock said:


> I think he just put that up on his name. Probably to avoid the bother


He's not that smart, . I know he loathed me and avoided me like a pile of dog dung, but he did make me think. The corporate Ernie of old is gone. I like the new Ernie. He made alot more sense. He was becoming more like me. A little more time and he would have been perfect. I hope he's not gone. Ernie, if you're out there, if you come back I'll take off my helmet and give you one free punch. Just one now! And I promise not to foul your sandbox. At least to the best of my ability.:buds:


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## 7thswan (Nov 18, 2008)

Tiempo said:


> IDK, there were some pretty egregious personal insults going on. It's a shame, he did have some interesting viewpoints that gave many food for thought, for better or worse.


Copperheadkid gone too,I'll miss em.


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## Becka03 (Mar 29, 2009)

Was there a thread fight? geeish - 2 more banned- 

I liked reading their posts


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## Muleman (Nov 8, 2013)

How do I always miss this stuff??? Seems I always miss what happens then am left going " Wait? What happened? Why are they gone again??" 

I liked some of their post as well. You know, I remember on another forum there used to be someone who was always making trouble it seemed and always quick to judge. But, to be perfectly honest!! While, I did not think they added much in the way of useful information, once they were gone a while, I realized there was something missing from the conversations?? 

people, hard to figure us out sometimes???


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## KentuckyDreamer (Jan 20, 2012)

When I first joined this forum I was so new I had no idea how much I did not know. Slowly, daily, I learned things. I emphasize slowly because coming to HT the information can be overwhelming, from composting to chickens getting sick. That is the same with this particular forum. 

I love reading Ernie's posts, watching Elk's video's, Bellyman makes me think I can do anything, etc. I love that if I am not ready to process that info right now, it is there when I am ready. I love that if I do not agree with a premise it has the ability to jerk me just a bit away from my self centered views or maybe even remind me of my past altruistic world view. 

Love to each and everyone of you...the patchwork is why I come here.


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## Becka03 (Mar 29, 2009)

KentuckyDreamer said:


> When I first joined this forum I was so new I had no idea how much I did not know. Slowly, daily, I learned things. I emphasize slowly because coming to HT the information can be overwhelming, from composting to chickens getting sick. That is the same with this particular forum.
> 
> I love reading Ernie's posts, watching Elk's video's, Bellyman makes me think I can do anything, etc. I love that if I am not ready to process that info right now, it is there when I am ready. I love that if I do not agree with a premise it has the ability to jerk me just a bit away from my self centered views or maybe even remind me of my past altruistic world view.
> 
> Love to each and everyone of you...the patchwork is why I come here.



Very well said!:thumb:


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## unregistered353870 (Jan 16, 2013)

Tiempo said:


> IDK, there were some pretty egregious personal insults going on. It's a shame, he did have some interesting viewpoints that gave many food for thought, for better or worse.


I missed the insults, but not surprised. Most people seem to get mellower as they age but he seems to be going the other direction, judging from some of his older posts I've seen on revived threads. I never "knew" him before fairly recently though. It is a shame.


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## AngieM2 (May 10, 2002)

just remember even all members have clay feet, and some of the most opinionated do not deliver their opinions in a manner that is not insulting.

Infractions add up, and then a member has banned themself. 99% of the time, if it is not spam, is it an accumulation of infraction points, that any number of mods may have given over a period of time. They do time out after a good length of time, but it takes awhile. It's worth paying attention to those points. If you have any, you know about them, if you do not know about them, you don't have any.

Also, usually if we know an infraction will ban a person, 2 or 3 or 4 mods will verify that it should be given. But, many times, I'm the one that does the actual deed.


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## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

Is there a chart of what you get infractions for? How many gets you banned?


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## AngieM2 (May 10, 2002)

No, But if you follow the site rules. Especially no cussing and not being insulting to another member you probably will never need to know.


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## motdaugrnds (Jul 3, 2002)

Well, I have read this entire thread and nowhere in any of Ernie's posts did I read anything insulting to others. So I'm quite confused as to what would be called an "infraction".

What I saw was a man truly dedicated to a Heavenly Father and making every effort to live a "spiritual" life rather than one that lets him fit into the world's view of how to exist. 

I will add what I was wanting to say to Ernie and others here and then not post again on this thread for fear of myself getting an infraction for ??

The points that caught my mind's eye the most were: 

Ernie's:
It comes down to being a self-actualized human being. To having your own sense of self-determinism. Doing things because it's "normal" or because other people do so is not self-determinism. Continuing to do those things, even when you see that they are harming you and others you care about, is a type of psychosis. You don't value your own thought process and decision-making skills enough to go against the social conventions or public opinion. I fully expect the world to be at odds with me because I'm rather at odds with it.

Muleman's:
Speaks of the world sucking one into its system of surviving. He spoke of examining one's earthy life in relation to one's spiritual life; and that, and though the living situations may be different for each, still the process is the same, i.e. an internal inventory of where you are in relations to where you need to be to achieve the type of separation you are actually wanting from this world. 

BlackFeather's:
The Bible says we are in the world but not to be a part of it....are you here for yourself or for others? If for yourself, you lose; if for others, then that is what real love is. So the conclusion of the whole matter is to fear God and keep his commands, for it is your spirituality that is more important than how many cans of food you have stored up. 

Lilith's:
I sincerely hope that those of you who have achieved self reliance can remember back to a time when it was all so overwhelming that you didn't "get it" the first time you were told. If you are that tired of watching new folks go through the growing pains of this lifestyle, I would hope you wrote a book I could purchase with the infinite wisdom you have to offer us. It would not be so painful for you when I reread it 7, 8, or 9 times to get what you are saying. Your knowledge is valuable, and I appreciate your time and effort to help people like me who are behind on picking up the clues about what is bound to happen one day - please be glad that i picked up the clues at all. 

mzgarden's:
Talks about discussions that are old news to some but new to her and lets us know she would not have known to seek what was unknown to her without such discussions. 

All who are familiar with my personal story (found here in the archieves) know my path is in this world without actually being a part of it. I have *always* been an outsider not understanding why I didn't fit until I started studying the Scriptures way back in 1964; then when I was on my death bed in 1972; again when I started tending to my mother who was dying of parkinsons; and now that I'm up in years with no one but my Heavenly Father to rely on. I've also always had to "fit into the system" (while maintaining my spiritual separateness) to hold down a job, raise a son & simply exist. It does take a self-actualized person to do this because absolutely every thought/feeling/behavior comes into question either by self or by reflection from others. It is always a struggle for even now I'm processing who I am "in Christ" and what I can actually do "in Christ". When one is up in years it is not as easy to do for others as one might want; so figuring out how I can still "walk by faith" is what I'm doing now....seems there is always a new part to this same spiritual path.

I'm sorry Ernie can no longer post. I will miss him.

Well, I've just checked another thread in an attempt to understand why Ernie may have been banned. It became obvious he does not hold back when expressing himself; and I must say I'm truly glad our moderators do not allow derogatory comments about others.


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## Becka03 (Mar 29, 2009)

Angie is very fair and gives warnings and will pull someone aside when they are in the penalty box- I have great respect for that- as I am sometimes given a tap on the shoulder-


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## Muleman (Nov 8, 2013)

Unless I am badly mistaken the offensive posts were not in this thread, but in other threads? But I could be wrong? I have been before!


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## unregistered353870 (Jan 16, 2013)

Muleman said:


> Unless I am badly mistaken the offensive posts were not in this thread, but in other threads? But I could be wrong? I have been before!


Yes, different threads. And deleted so they aren't there to see any more.

Ernie must be an interesting guy to be missed and talked about this much...one of several members I'd like to meet in real life just to chat for a bit.


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## Tiempo (May 22, 2008)

7thswan said:


> Copperheadkid gone too,I'll miss em.


CK lives very close to me and I run into him once in a while. We agree about practically nothing in politics etc but IRL we get along quite well.

It was pretty funny how we met, I went to buy cochin chicks from a breeder I'd had birds from before and there was a guy there buying some also. When I got home and came on HT I had a PM from CK saying, "were you at *****'s buying chicks today by any chance? We had been pretty much nothing but adversaries on here so I about fell off my chair! 

His inner detective told him there can't be many English chicks with veteran license plates on her truck in these parts and he called it right 

Some time later he sent me a message about a farm auction up the road and I met up with him there, it was a beautiful day and we had a nice chat sitting on some farm equipment for about an hour and mooched around the auction.


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## bowdonkey (Oct 6, 2007)

For once in my life I got to read the offending posts before they where pulled. It was heated but nothing offensive to my way of thinking. Just two guys disagreeing. But maybe I missed something. I feel really bad for Angie, caught up in all this. As Josey Wales once said " When ever I get to liken someone they're never around for long".


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## 7thswan (Nov 18, 2008)

Tiempo said:


> CK lives very close to me and I run into him once in a while. We agree about practically nothing in politics etc but IRL we get along quite well.
> 
> It was pretty funny how we met, I went to buy cochin chicks from a breeder I'd had birds from before and there was another guy there buying some also. When I got home and came on HT I had a PM from CK saying, "were you at *****'s buying chicks today by any chance? We had been pretty much nothing but adversaries on here so I about fell off my chair!
> 
> ...


I'm sure You and I would get along quite merrily also. I was an art major-jewerly design, I saw once you had some silver up for sale. I also trained Standardbreds,did all my own shoeing, I KNOW how hard you work. Never wanted children, yes they would smother me,because I never felt that a man would be a good enough father and leave it all up to me. I could go on, politics is something the last person in the world would think I'd be interested in, I'm just a little ol blue eyed blond push over


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## TRellis (Sep 16, 2013)

bowdonkey said:


> For once in my life I got to read the offending posts before they where pulled.


I know what you mean...

I kept missing the drama also until a week or two ago when I happened to witness the Pretty Paisley meltdown. And I just realized that she was banned also. I saw the Ernie posts last night, but completely missed the CopperKid posts. Three in about a week or two.

In the same manner that I do not envy the jobs that cops do, I also do not envy what the moderators of this forum are put through. I just never want to get on Angie's bad side. It may wind up looking something like this ----> :bdh:

...and that horse would be me!!!

TRellis


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## Muleman (Nov 8, 2013)

Wow, where have I been?? Paisley is gone too!!! Ok, that's it, no more sleep for me and tomorrow I am calling in sick, just missing way to much that is going on here!!! 

Wait a minute, I'm already at work?? Have to rethink this now!

Angie, you may want to think about getting some sleep, sounds like you and the other mods have been busy lately. Thanks for all that you do to keep these boards livable for us civilized folks!!


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## Becka03 (Mar 29, 2009)

Aww man Paisley is banned too? 

I liked those 2 posts Teimpo and 7th Swan- that was an awesome read how I am sure we would all more than likely get along in real life- typing can only show a person so much


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## unregistered353870 (Jan 16, 2013)

Holidays are tough for a lot of people. Maybe that has been a part of people going way over the line lately.


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## TRellis (Sep 16, 2013)

jtbrandt said:


> Holidays are tough for a lot of people. Maybe that has been a part of people going way over the line lately.


And, there is a full moon this coming Saturday night....

I think I will just crawl into bed early and not go any where near the computer.

TRellis


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## Forerunner (Mar 23, 2007)

This thread leaves me feeling dull and nondescript.

I feel ashamed to have never been banned.

:facepalm:


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## calliemoonbeam (Aug 7, 2007)

Forerunner said:


> This thread leaves me feeling dull and nondescript.
> 
> I feel ashamed to have never been banned.
> 
> :facepalm:


I know, right?? I've never even received an infraction, lol! We must be dull as dishwater FR, ROFL! 

Seriously though, I think the world situation is getting pretty stressful for a lot of folks and more so for those who are big preppers and/or more spiritual...and unfortunately that tends to lead to overheated discussions that get out of control without that being their exact intention, yet they're so committed to their convictions that they can't pull back even when they see where it's leading. 

It's a shame, I think we've lost quite a few really good members because of it, but I understand why the mods have to step in. They do give warnings before infractions, and I know it takes quite a few small infractions or a couple of really serious ones to get banned, so people do have plenty of opportunity to back off and cool down.

Angie, I don't envy you and the other mods' jobs one bit, especially for no pay and mostly no thanks, but you all do a great job and this place would be an ugly free for all without you, so thank you for all you do.


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## mollymae (Feb 10, 2010)

This is why I rarely post. I enjoy reading and learning so much from folks here....but often do not type my responses. Just talk it out in my my head unless I have a specific questions. Sometimes my texts or responses here when read...are not received or interpreted the way I intended. So....i Just try to keep my mouth shut and learn from what others have to say. I will say now though. That this forum needs Ernie. If we are lucky enough to get him to come back. Losing that amount of perspective on life from one single person would really be a disappointment. There are so many others too...that are still here...some are not. All of which I look for their posts daily. If I do....then surely lots of others do too. God Bless You Ernie


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## Harry Chickpea (Dec 19, 2008)

I'm not sure what has set off a lot of bickering, but I have noticed a marked increase of it here and in some news feeds and a few other places. There is a full moon coming, but I'm wondering if there were more than the normal arguments over tables on Thanksgiving, a lot of indigestible Franken-foods, or if the next political cycle is ramping up. In usenet groups like misc.consumers.frugal-living, the chewing would go on for a while and usually wear itself out as the combatants found themselves posting in two-party threads that most readers just skipped while their fingers became bloody stumps on the keyboards. At times, those flame wars could be entertaining.

Cut-n-clean works to keep forums on track, but often the most free thinking, creative and original posters find their incompatibility forces them out. There are no good answers.


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## unregistered353870 (Jan 16, 2013)

Forerunner said:


> This thread leaves me feeling dull and nondescript.
> 
> I feel ashamed to have never been banned.
> 
> :facepalm:


You have a very nice quality in that you seem to be able to just share your wisdom and let people take it or leave it, instead of getting all frustrated and angry if some don't accept it. A lot of the same ideas as Ernie (didn't he learn some of that stuff from you?) but presented in a much more "friendly" way. 

ETA: I frequently have to look things up after reading your posts...words, laws, people, etc....so you're contributing to the education of an old man.


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## Ceilismom (Jul 16, 2011)

Harry Chickpea said:


> I'm not sure what has set off a lot of bickering, but I have noticed a marked increase of it here and in some news feeds and a few other places. There is a full moon coming, but I'm wondering if there were more than the normal arguments over tables on Thanksgiving, a lot of indigestible Franken-foods, or if the next political cycle is ramping up. In usenet groups like misc.consumers.frugal-living, the chewing would go on for a while and usually wear itself out as the combatants found themselves posting in two-party threads that most readers just skipped while their fingers became bloody stumps on the keyboards. At times, those flame wars could be entertaining.
> 
> Cut-n-clean works to keep forums on track, but often the most free thinking, creative and original posters find their incompatibility forces them out. There are no good answers.


I have noticed over the years, and from more than one forum, that along about October and November, and then again in the hottest part of summer, people as a whole seem to get rather cranky. I think we'd all do well to remember that forum participation doesn't have to take place in real time, and that we have the luxury of walking away and thinking a thing over before responding.


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## Muleman (Nov 8, 2013)

I have written many post, then after reading them and giving them a bit of thought have deleted them or reworded them. I think posting when we are angry or getting caught up in the moment is kinda like going to the grocery store on an empty stomach, we wind up saying things we wish we had not later after giving it some thought. 

I know there are those here who feel strong urges to share what they know and what they believe with others, and for good reason. We must all keep in mind however that everyone is free to make their own choices and it is not our job to change their minds, only to present information and give them the opportunity to make the changes themselves. I do admit it is frustrating at times to continually present some of the same information over and over and examples of failure, or success, of the same ideas over and over, just to have people keep saying "I am just not sure how to???" or " I just can't understand why I keep having these problems??"

Ahh People, a complicated bunch for sure. That is why I like my mules, they always seem to "get it" and though they do not always agree with my ideas, they never seem to take things personally, like people, seems we are always able to work past our disagreements without the hostility one sometimes runs into with people?


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## Forerunner (Mar 23, 2007)

I would likely have chosen mules as the soul balm of choice, had I not spent the first years of my hardscrabble career as a farrier.

I have found knitting needles, of all things, to be much less temperamental. :grin:


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## TripleD (Feb 12, 2011)

Well since this thread is going to be locked soon , I'm going to put my 2 cents in. If you get banned you have more time to get yourself in order !


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## unregistered41671 (Dec 29, 2009)

Muleman said:


> I have written many post, then after reading them and giving them a bit of thought have deleted them or reworded them. I think posting when we are angry or getting caught up in the moment is kinda like going to the grocery store on an empty stomach, we wind up saying things we wish we had not later after giving it some thought.


Me too Muleman, I have written many posts and ended up hitting the delete key just before sending. Sometimes there is no need for a reply, especially some of the replies I have had in my little pea brain. 

One thing for sure if we want to stay here on this forum, we all need to think, before hitting send and most importantly we need to think about how our delivery is going to sound from a keyboard.

I have said things here that some interpreted in a wrong way but I did not mean it that way. 
I reckon we all need to read and think before we hit send. 

Sometimes the delete key says more.


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## motdaugrnds (Jul 3, 2002)

Well, this may sound harsh to some; however, it is not meant to be.

It is actually quite easy to speak without calling someone names or identifying another's actions/words negatively even when we disagree. Yes, all of us will make mistakes at times and, as some of you have stated, re-reading your post prior to posting it does permit you to re-do portions of it.

One rule that can be useful in posting is to remember to own your own thoughts when opposing what another has said. Using the word "I" to start your sentences is often more calming than starting a sentence off with the word "You". And even asking questions about what another has said is often viewed as more positive than using your own perspective/experiences to interpret what was said.


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## bowdonkey (Oct 6, 2007)

Ceilismom said:


> I have noticed over the years, and from more than one forum, that along about October and November, and then again in the hottest part of summer, people as a whole seem to get rather cranky. I think we'd all do well to remember that forum participation doesn't have to take place in real time, and that we have the luxury of walking away and thinking a thing over before responding.


It's the rut. Guys just get crazy in the fall.


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## 7thswan (Nov 18, 2008)

The moon affects me greatly. I get migraines even with my meds. Last night after helping with some broken water pipes in the basement, I walked outside and saw the moon. I knew why I feel like crap. It will last days and it feels like a pressure on me. A constant yeck feeling. Maybe others are just not so aware of their body??? They might get grumpy??


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## Muleman (Nov 8, 2013)

I hate how this all got started, but I am glad to see some of you finally opening up and admitting none of you are perfect, and you are all sometimes in a bad mood, which may affect your post. I was starting to think, I could be part of the problem at times, but it is good to know I am the normal one and "It is not me, it is you" 

I feel much better now, thanks!!!


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## Becka03 (Mar 29, 2009)

mamita said:


> deleted post was quoted here.


lol
This thread probably needs a different title- 
read thru it- it has evolved into something cathartic as far as I am concerned:thumb:


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## bluefish (Jan 27, 2006)

_Everybody_ is getting banned anymore. Granted, I've only been on here a few years but I've never seen the amount of banning as I have in the last year.

I don't know if the rules have changed that much or if everyone is just going to pot.

:huh::shrug:


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## mamita (May 19, 2008)

everyone is getting banned. anyone have the nerve to ask WHY?


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## Ceilismom (Jul 16, 2011)

http://www.homesteadingtoday.com/specialty-forums/general-chat/501457-missing-members.html

Whenever I get to feeling nosy, and wonder why a member was banned, I just look up the last thread(s) they posted in. The answer can usually be found there. It satisfies my curiosity, and since I like being able to post here, eliminated the risk of joining them.


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## Tiempo (May 22, 2008)

mamita said:


> delted post was quoted here


HT is now owned by a large corporation based out of greater Detroit, I would imagine they have image control issues.


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## TRellis (Sep 16, 2013)

I look at it like this...

I doubt the we average forum members really know the entire story. Yes, some of us may have seen what was posted by a particular forum member before they were banned and thought, "Well, that was not so bad. I can not understand why that person was banned for that. I have seen worse on this forum before."

But do you and I know the entire story? Many have mentioned in this thread that if the moderators think that you may have put a toe over the line they will tell you so. I assume that they do so discreetly in a private message. I think that it is somewhat reasonable to assume that at times the individual being told to put their toe back on the other side of the line may not take the rebuff well at all and fights back with the moderator. 

Several back and forth PM's later, bad words exchanged, the moderator has had enough, gets together with the other moderators and the individual gets the ax. Perfectly plausible.

I am not saying that this is what happened in any of these aforementioned cases. Neither do I have any inside information. I am just saying that what some of us have had the opportunity to see on the public side sometimes may pale in comparison to what is said in private to the moderators.

If that is the case I really do not feel that the moderators have to put up with it publicly or privately.

TRellis


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## Muleman (Nov 8, 2013)

I have some understanding after reading many different post of some of the things people do to get banned. I believe anyone who has spent much time here probably has some idea of what is allowed and what is not, even if there is not an exacting rule book, common sense usually prevails. What exactly happened with Ernie or Paisley or ???, I honestly do not know. I view this as a free forum, therefore while I participate I basically am writing on someone else's chalk board. Therefore, they can ask me to stay in the lines and are well within their right to do so. I know some people who have their own Blogs for this purpose, that way it is their chalk board and they can write whatever they want, and make rules about what others they invite on can write. 

That is kinda how I feel on the subject, and if I was bothered as to the exact reason a member here was banned. I would send the moderator a PM asking in a respectful manor if they would be willing to offer an explanation, because I was concerned. I would imagine if a member had a honest concern and approached the mods in this manor they would try to give you an explanation for their actions.


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## motdaugrnds (Jul 3, 2002)

I totally agree the moderators are more knowledgeable than we are because they see *most if not all *a person's posts. I have been enjoying this HT forum for many, many years and not once have I read a post from a moderator that was disrespectful.

So, no, I don't believe it is "POOF...banned" and making such broad statements as "everyone is getting banned" with comments like "...anyone have the nerve to ask why?" could easily disturb me if I didn't recognize them as simply foolish. (No, I did not say the poster was foolish. I said the comments sounded foolish to me.)

I have read posts from the various parties who have been banned that I admired and learned from; so I will miss their contributions. Even when their wording could be viewed by some as a bit ... unfriendly .... My comment to them would simply be something like, "I appreciate the information you have given; and had you worded it a bit differently, it would have been easier to hear." (I do wish there were some way of helping such people learn to say whatever they want/need to say in ways that are easier to hear *before *they wind up losing the privilege of posting.)


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## unregistered353870 (Jan 16, 2013)

Tiempo said:


> HT is now owned by a large corporation based out of greater Detroit, I would imagine they have image control issues.


I didn't know about that...looks like it happened in July...thanks for the info.


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## raybait1 (Sep 30, 2006)

True honesty doesn't often come from submissive personalities.


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## bigjon (Oct 2, 2013)

ernie&elk make u think.


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## Explorer (Dec 2, 2003)

Elk's banned also?????


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## Forerunner (Mar 23, 2007)

The day they ban Elk is the day I'll leave of my own accord.


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## okiemom (May 12, 2002)

Anyone who has been here for any times has seen this time and time again and the bigger it gets the stricter the rules and as this forum is about making your own rules not being 'sheeple" it is not hard to understand somethings will be said before tack and forethought prevail. 

It is true certain times of the year and month see to make things worse as do an individuals personal health. I have been slightly amused for the last week as I have felt like I was going loony. I have had a sinus infection for almost a month as for the last week have been camped at the computer. It is rather disconcerting to see threads start then seeming vanish. Sort of like how I felt when my kids started to walk around. I would put something down and it would disappear or be moved. Thought I was going crazy often. 

Give it some time and things will calm down. If it seems hard to play in the sandbox feel free to take a break and a deep breath come back when things are better. It does a body good.


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## Muleman (Nov 8, 2013)

Wait is this kinda how rumors start??

I do not think elk is banned, I think it was just an observation that their post's were equally liked. 

Now come on everybody, if we keep whoop'in I bet we can get another page or two out of this dead horse!!


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## Forerunner (Mar 23, 2007)

I'm sure Elk hasn't been banned. 
I was just sayin'. :grin:

Banning Elk from HT would be like banning Mr. Green Jeans from the Captain Kangaroo show. It wouldn't be worth watching, after.

:shrug:


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## Becka03 (Mar 29, 2009)

Forerunner said:


> I'm sure Elk hasn't been banned.
> I was just sayin'. :grin:
> 
> Banning Elk from HT would be like banning Mr. Green Jeans from the Captain Kangaroo show. It wouldn't be worth watching, after.
> ...



AMEN:buds:


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## Tiempo (May 22, 2008)

I don't recall ever seeing Elk be insulting


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## AngieM2 (May 10, 2002)

I have figured that more are being banned right now, as the infractions do not wear off as quickly as they did when some people had double or triple amount to be banned over a period of time. They had figured out the number and would go right up to the edge, then be nice until one dropped off, and then would start in again.

Some time ago, we changed so the infractions take longer to wear off. If it's a one time thing, it will wear off. If you do it often within a time frame, even after being warned and previously infracted for the same thing, you will have just banned yourself.

It's not fun to decide to do that last infraction. Most often the mod that is about to give that last infraction will consult with up to 4 or 5 other mods, to make sure it is deserved and should be done. 

And as to older ones getting banned. I guess they were not watching their behavior and have had more time to accumulate infractions.

Also, in this thread and else where on the site, you will see an example of 
"do not post something that has been deleted" , that's in the rules.

Everyone should see what the behavior is for this site, and the rules are agreed to by registering and logging in.

FAQ Section 4, 2nd paragraph is the main one

Now to see what to do about people blatantly and with full intention of breaking the rules.


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## motdaugrnds (Jul 3, 2002)

Nice reminder AngieM2. Thank you


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## AngieM2 (May 10, 2002)

Tiempo said:


> HT is now owned by a large corporation based out of greater Detroit, I would imagine they have image control issues.



Incorrect. People keep breaking rules.


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## chickenista (Mar 24, 2007)

Forerunner said:


> The day they ban Elk is the day I'll leave of my own accord.


 
Yep.
Or you..


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## AngieM2 (May 10, 2002)

If you don't break the rules, it doesn't matter.


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## AngieM2 (May 10, 2002)

The questions have been answered in my long post. This whole site is under the BE NICE rule, some of the rules that can cause you problems are listed on that FAQ link.

It has been the rules since day one. They are still the rules. 

That's it.


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