# Best for dog feeding?



## matlori (May 22, 2013)

Any opinions about the best animals to raise to feed the dogs?? We do feed them chicken and turkey legs, and inards. But they are here to protect the poultry and cattle so I cant just kill one and give it to them every day. Not much for gophers or other pests like that around. Right now we are feeding them mostly dry dog food  I do not have the time to be "making" them dog food, but fully agree with the idea that if you give them the whole animal to eat they will get all that they need.


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## bluefish (Jan 27, 2006)

I would use what you have. I raise goats, rabbits and poultry as well a steer or two a year. The dogs get any dead animals and butchering leftovers as well as extra birds and rabbits that I just don't feel like processing. I have never had any issues with the dogs deciding to help themselves to any of it. And they could very easily. They always get a dead animal from my hands and they know that one is ok. Anything alive is off limits. They know the difference. I have one LGD, an english shepherd and a couple of herding/hunting crosses.

To supplement the meat or in lean times, they get a lot of oatmeal or peas and rice. Often cooked in whey from the cheesemaking. It doesn't take much time to prepare those. For the oatmeal, I just warm up a big pot of water, dump in the oats, cover, turn off the heat and let it sit. I do this the night before or in the morning. My dogs eat in the evening. The peas and rice just simmer for a few hours. I don't have to sit and watch these things, just sorta keep an eye on things. If they burn, the dogs are still happy the eat it.  It's really not that time consuming. I can easily work it in with the animal chores, homeschooling, gardening, fencing, etc.

I am also known to pick up fresh roadkill for the dogs. It's not legal everywhere, but I can do it here. Do you know anybody who raises a lot of cows? I've often gotten dead calves and/or older cows that aren't worth taking to the sale barn.


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## HayBabies (Feb 27, 2013)

I've always wondered if the cost of feeding animals for dog food would be higher $ then just buying a high grade dry kibble? I don't know about you but the feed cost for such animals are here is crazy. Then you have to deal with shelters, containment and predators killing you dog food. Is it really worth it??


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## bluefish (Jan 27, 2006)

HayBabies said:


> I've always wondered if the cost of feeding animals for dog food would be higher $ then just buying a high grade dry kibble? I don't know about you but the feed cost for such animals are here is crazy. Then you have to deal with shelters, containment and predators killing you dog food. Is it really worth it??



It really, really depends on your situation. What can you raise easily and cheaply or what can you 'scrounge'? If you live someplace you can't do either, it does get a lot more expensive. I have a bit of acreage and can raise a few things pretty cheaply and these animals are raised for more than dog food. They also contribute to our diet. Actually, mostly to our diet. 

As to the difference in feeds, the only long term example I know of is my dog and a friend's. My dog is 14 and has hip dysplasia. Her dog is 13 and has normal wear and tear arthritis. My dog has been raw fed since 3 years old. Hers has had a very nice, high quality dry kibble it's whole life. Her dog is doing well but is on pain meds. My dog is doing well on no meds at all. Now there are genetics and breed and all sorts of things contributing to both dogs, but it's the only dog I know personally that is fed one of the best dry foods you can get that I have known for most of it's life. Therefore, it's the only example I've got.


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## Maura (Jun 6, 2004)

How about deer?


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## matlori (May 22, 2013)

I would like to do something that does not cost much. I think the cheepest would be to use the incubator to hatch batches of cheep eggs or get male leghorn chicks and just feed those scraps etc. let them free range, and feed out those. I am a bit worried about feeding them those, but even though the LGD is only a year old, i think she could be trained to only take them from our hands.
Any training tips on this?
that would be much easier than raising something new for them. 
I will look into the cost of hunting dear too, we were thinking about trying some deer meat from my uncle and maybe hunting this year.


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## bluefish (Jan 27, 2006)

I make all my dogs sit and wait til I tell them they can eat. Always have, just considered manners around here. They sit, I put the animal/parts down, they keep sitting til I say they can eat. I don't know if that will have anything to with not chasing animals or not, but it definitely says I am the food source. Even if you're feeding kibble, you can do the same thing to get them started on it.


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## matlori (May 22, 2013)

roadkill is legal here. you have to call F & W when you find it, tel them what it is, sex, and what you want it for, they send out a permit in the mail. you the road kill away as soon as you get offf the phone with them. cool!


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## motdaugrnds (Jul 3, 2002)

I can tell you what I'm giving serious thought to doing. I have two large breed dogs and they always get the parts of our processed animals (goats & assortment of fowl). However, our homestead is small and so is our goat herd and flocks of fowl; so I've been feeding them grain-free dried food (Taste of the Wild) for the most part with the raw foods only once a week.

What I've been contemplating is rabbit! I want to create a fenced in area strictly for rabbits to colonize. The parameter fence will be 2-3 ft high rabbit fencing embedded into 2' deep concrete and attached to metal T-posts. Both my dogs could jump that easily, though I would teach them it is not ok without my permission.

Then I would create some housing inside that fenced area that would "not" be prone to collecting water. This would permit the rabbits to have as many litters they want all year long, which would be quite a lot. The area would need to be protected from the heat of the summers and have a steady supply of water from one of our many springs and be kept full of vegetation (for winter as well as spring crops) the rabbits could eat; so I would not need to buy any food for them. These rabbits would strictly be for feeding the dogs. 

Hopefully soon I can get this project started!


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## bluefish (Jan 27, 2006)

Rabbit by itself is not enough for dogs. That's a big reason we got into rabbits, but you do have to supplement. Rabbits are too lean to be the only food. I have had no problem with rabbit and supplementing with the above mentioned 'cereals', especially if I add a little fat. A dollop of olive oil works fine.


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## motdaugrnds (Jul 3, 2002)

Nice to know. Thanks thermopkt. Seems if I mix some "biscuits" (rabbit, olive oil, vitamin C and rice) this might be a quality supplement. ?? Yes ??


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## Maura (Jun 6, 2004)

I wouldn't give them any grain. Raw meat has vit C, but you can supplement if you want. I gave C when my bc was a puppy and again now that he is elderly, also sick dogs. I'd give them discarded fat from other animals along with the rabbit find out what vegetable oil most closely resembles meat fat for when I don't have meat fat.

If you have LGD's they are not going to kill the rabbits except by mistake. If you have "guard" dogs they may want to kill the rabbits because they are prey driven. In this case, with your set up, I'm sure you can train them to stay away from the rabbit condo.


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## Whisperwindkat (May 28, 2009)

Dogs get something from everything we raise for food. We raise goats, rabbits, chickens and pigs. We also hunt for deer and usually put a couple in the freezer just for the dogs. We supplement with occasional squirrel hunting and fishing. I stock up on chicken leg quarters when they are on sale so that I have something for when things might be lean. They also get dairy products and extra eggs. If we didn't raise so much or hunt for so much then I would imagine we would spend more than we did on a good quality kibble. But then when we fed kibble we didn't have the mastiffs so I can't imagine what it would cost to feed them. Like someone said though you can't feed rabbit exclusively because it is too lean. We usually give some pork or beef fat with the rabbit to balance it out and ours eat rabbit 2-3 times a week. Blessings, Kat


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## EvoQ (Dec 23, 2012)

Dogs were not meant to eat CORN, if you are feeding your dogs corn products then you are killing them slowly. I started feeding my dogs a Protein based kibble along with the leftovers from the butcher, such as Hearts, innerards, etc. Next Hunting Season go to your local Deer Processing person and see if they will give you what the hunters dont want or sell it to you. Lots of different ideas and places to obtain quality meats for your Pups. The Connective tissue that these organs have is very nutritious not to mention your Dogs will instantly Feel Much Better. I'm sorry to be blunt but if you feed your Dog Corn Shame on You. No Corn what-so-ever. Not to even mention that Humans should not eat Corn either, this Yellow dent that you buy is the absolute worst vegetable you can put into your body. I will not even eat Bef that is not free range and it has drastically improved my health. If you don't belive me then watch the Documentary "Big Corn" I believe thats the name. These Feedlots to fatten up cows basically get the cows to the point of death then slaughter them. So all you people that will reign down hard on me, its the facts live with it. But for Dogs Stay away from any food that has Cor in it. There are several brands of Kibble foods that do not have corn and are affordable too. What extra money you spend on a better Kibble you will save with fewer Vet bills.
Corn Kills Dogs !


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## motdaugrnds (Jul 3, 2002)

I had not heard that about corn; but I can certainly believe it! Thanks EvoQ for sharing that bit of information.


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## bluefish (Jan 27, 2006)

I agree with the corn, wheat is also a big problem. I have had no issues with oats and rice. It is NOT their sole ration. Dogs are omnivorous and will eat grain on their own if allowed. At least mine do. Even when they have had free choice meat available, they would sneak into the chicken feeder at every opportunity. They also do well on slightly cooked veggies. I don't buy my dogs veggies, but they do often get the parts that I don't eat such as stems and peels. Mine LOVE apples.

Basically there are a few things that you really should avoid, otherwise dogs are VERY adaptable as far as diet. Keep the grains down, but don't stress about feeding only meat. In fact my old dog does worse on 100% meat. Feed what you have and mess around with it until you find what works for your dogs. It'll change somewhat with age and season. Mine need more fats in the winter and more meat and fat as puppies. Also be aware that a few dogs will actually get an allergy to beef. Strange, but it does happen. I've always wondered if those particular dogs would do ok with grass fed beef vs feedlot, but have never had the opportunity to experiment. None of mine have that issue.

Common signs of allergy are yeast infections, especially in the ears and feet. Hair loss, hot spots and other skin issues. Sometimes it comes as bad gas, but that is also very common at first as their digestion gets used to 'live' foods. If it's an indoor dog, introduce meat slowly and avoid guts. If they get too much meat before their gut flora gets used to, they get VERY fragrant. The guts are very good for them, but if an indoor dog always do small amounts. That has got to be the worst smell in the world. Makes normal dog farts smell good.

I also avoid raw pork on a regular basis. They don't seem to digest it as well.


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## Maura (Jun 6, 2004)

Scientific evidence shows that the gene (alleles, or something) for digesting carbohydrates vary between animals. Wolves have two and have trouble eating carbohydrates, they do better with very ripe fruit, fermented things. Domestic dogs have between 3 and 30. Humans, I think, have 32. This means just because you can digest it doesn't mean your dog can. The dogs with 32 can digest carbs almost as well as humans, but the dogs with 3 or 4 obviously aren't getting much from carbs other than gas. Corn is hard for humans to digest. It's really bad for dogs. Rice is a grain. Don't give your dogs grain. It's really better to give them cooked green beans or carrots if you want to add carbs ( in other words, leftovers)


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## EvoQ (Dec 23, 2012)

motdaugrnds said:


> I had not heard that about corn; but I can certainly believe it! Thanks EvoQ for sharing that bit of information.


 No Problem several of my Dog friends had no clue about How Bad Corn was/is for Dogs. I gently persuaded them all to start feeding a more premium kibble and every single dog owner friend said they saw immediate positive results. Since I have added much more protein in my Pyrs diets they too have shown signs of marketed improvement. Hopefully these great Big Dogs will live a longer life from it. 
As for the Rice issue while it is a grain and I would be opposed to feeding any grains, I do use Cooked Rice in my Pyrs diet. My Vet has even suggested Rice Milk for upset tummy many times over, and it works. When I say Rice Milk I mean Cooking the rice until it is mushy and forms a soupy milk like substance. Just about every Premium Kibble has Rice as a major ingredient. I am by no means a nutritionist for dogs but go off of first hand knowledge and also from what I have heard and seen.
I would Please suggest that people immediately turn away from Any and All Corn Products for their Dogs. And also as a suggestion on my part when you can or everyday like I do supplement their diet with much more protein. I buy whole chickens and boil them up. You would be amazed at just how much meat comes off a whole chicken, yes it is more labour intensive but well worth fewer trips to the vet. The Dogs Love the Meat and are happier for it not to mention healthier in my experience. There are many ways to add more protein and not break the bank so to speak. But remember helping your dogs to be healthier means less huge vet bills too, so the savings off of those vet bills will counter the added cost of the meat added to their daily meals. I typically buy whole chickens and boil them. Sometimes I get Beef meats that are close to their prime dates at discounts at the grocery store. I also buy large cuts of meats, such as Filet's, Strips, Prime Rib, and also do my own butchering. The cutoffs alone will add up to allot of meat foods for your pups. Think Connective Tissue which is packed with Healthy nutrients such as heart, Lungs, Liver, all organs Tongue, etc. I also during the hunting season go to the local deer processor and get what his customers dont want. Chicken Gizzards and Livers both meats that are cheap and Dogs luv them. Also fish is a very cheap alternative, such as frozen tilapia, very reasonable and your pups luv it.
lastly I want to briefly mention foods to avoid, and this list is by no means all inclusive but are typical items that most people serve their dogs but are surely Poisoning their dogs instead. garlic, leave the Garlic off, because Garlic is in the Onion family and Onions are most definitely Poison to your Dog. Raisins and Grapes are also Poison. These are only a very very few of the big NO-NOs for Dogs. Go online and check out the many many Poisons which should be avoided for Dogs.
Lastly I am No Expert by any means; but go off of experience, so if anyone else has something to add please do as I am more than eager to learn more to help my Pups be even more healthier !


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## bluefish (Jan 27, 2006)

EvoQ said:


> I buy whole chickens and boil them up. You would be amazed at just how much meat comes off a whole chicken, yes it is more labour intensive but well worth fewer trips to the vet.



I second this, but would advocate feeding raw. Once the dogs get used to digesting raw food, they have no problem with bones. _RAW_ chicken bones are fine for most dogs. Raw, not cooked. Raw bones don't splinter and present issues the way cooked bones can.

But even cooked meat is sooooooooo much better for your dogs than your average dry food.


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## PermaAMP (Jun 13, 2013)

Feeding raw meat will not make an animal aggressive or try to attack what the meat came from. And contrary to what many say wolves nor dogs actually eat the filled intestines. Doing so promotes worm infestations so they actually avoid it. Be sure when you feed raw meat you are also giving bones and some offal to balance out all the nutritional needs. 

I can vouch for dogs being healthier on raw. I have two six year old doberman/rottweiler crosses. They were on Taste of the Wild dog food and their coats were shiny but they still smelled a bit wet dogish if you know what I mean and their teeth were so covered in plaque they were dark brown. I started feeding them raw goat meat with bone and some other animal offal. Their teeth were pearly white within a week and that wet dog smell went away. They are shiny and healthy as ever. 


Here is a picture of one of them. She is covered in dirt but still shiny.


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## motdaugrnds (Jul 3, 2002)

Xymenah, that is a beautiful dog. Taste of the Wild is what I'm feeding my dogs too. I supplement with the raw goat; however, my goat herd (and flock of fowls) is too small to have enough for 2 large dogs a full year; and I'm not feeding my dogs meats offerred in the local grocery stores. I won't feed those to my family either! (We do have a place near that processes deer for the hunters; so I'm going to call and see if I can get what others are not taking. Is there any particular parts of the deer I should NOT accept?)


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## siberian (Aug 23, 2011)

Raw has been been great for us. Couple of rescue and strays that found us have had their teeth go from yellow to white , after being feed bones and raw diet. We also look at the Whole Dog Journal as they don't accept adeverising. They constantly review dog foods and rate them. We supplement with their 5 star and sometime 4 star food..9


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