# Video: Hunting wild boar with spears in Tx.



## ninny (Dec 12, 2005)

I know there are some crazy people here in Tx., but this is way past being crazy. I'm not sure that these people aren't certifiable.


[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eUNu9D9PO94[/ame]


Couldn't find a video of the guys killing an Aoudad ram with a pellet gun.


.


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## hunter63 (Jan 4, 2005)

I'll bet the Native Americans would have like to used a 4X4.

My old company had a customer in TX and their hunting club use this type of hunt as a initiation.

Not for me....................


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## ninny (Dec 12, 2005)

hunter63 said:


> I'll bet the Native Americans would have like to used a 4X4.
> 
> My old company had a customer in TX and their hunting club use this type of hunt as a initiation.
> 
> Not for me....................




I think I'd pass too. Did you see that thing charge that jeep? 


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## dngrous (Sep 22, 2009)

Absolutely NO WAY would I ever want to hunt like that.

If I can't make the kill with ONE SHOT, I don't take the shot. I see no reason to make the animal die slower just because it gives a person more of a thrill. When and if I do hunt, it's for food, never sport. (with the exception of crows, and those are to build stalking experience)


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## Guest (Sep 26, 2009)

I haven't seen the video, but wanted to mention that around here, people just trap them. No muss, no fuss, no danger.


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## Riverdale (Jan 20, 2008)

Call me silly, but I would love to try this.

Matter of fact, I know several people who would like to try this.

Of course, I would retire the spear if I was successful, just like every arrow of mine that 'retired' and turkey or deer.


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## Pops2 (Jan 27, 2003)

what a bunch of nimrods. if they really ran as much as they make it look like, the one guy wouldn't be so fat. so much of what they are doing is so stupid it's not even funny. throwing spears (while an effective subsistance technique) is a horrible way of making a quick humane kill and presents a poor image. i will defend this against AR nuts & legislation on principal but it was really a big joke to me. if they really want to man up they should get a good dog and some mule tape or a knife. it's more dangerous & more humane than even most "well placed" gunshots.


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## pred (Aug 10, 2008)

I think those guys should be beat down by 30 5 year old kids!
Without that jeep, The hog would have been long gone!
They basically ran it to death before they finished it off!
Just not right!
Peter


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## Gregg Alexander (Feb 18, 2007)

What a rush, up close an personal. But rather have my hog dogs help do the work, between my pack and the guys I hunt with we have taken 30 hogs this summer


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## big rockpile (Feb 24, 2003)

Truth I had enough fun with Muzzleloader on the ground.Nothing like shooting a Boar and have it run at you have it drop at your feet.

big rockpile


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## megafatcat (Jun 30, 2009)

Lord of the Flies??


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## ninny (Dec 12, 2005)

megafatcat said:


> Lord of the Flies??


Nah... Bunch of Nuts.

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## Guest (Sep 28, 2009)

Upon a time boar hunting in this way was a great sport for the aristocracy and royalty of Europe. On horses.

.....Alan.


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## dngrous (Sep 22, 2009)

A.T. Hagan said:


> Upon a time boar hunting in this way was a great *sport* for the aristocracy and royalty of Europe. On horses.
> 
> .....Alan.


And herein lies the problem....


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## megafatcat (Jun 30, 2009)

No problem. I would hope that you would have a "problem" with 22 men beating each other over the position of a pigskin bladder within 100 yards than a group of fools trying to emulate the foodgathering efforts of their ancestors. Even if they are incompetant at it.


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## dngrous (Sep 22, 2009)

Never have played football, and never watched a full game of it. It doesn't interest me in the least, nor does boxing. I can see WHY they're doing it, but it doesn't make it any better than a modern doctor sticking a leech on a person, "in memory of the way it was once done."

From a movie I watched last night.... 

"Just because it's the way it is, doesn't mean it's the way it should be."

Brownie points to whoever guesses the movie.


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## Pops2 (Jan 27, 2003)

actually they did it using dogs and horses and spears, swords or knives. they also didn't discriminate much, red stag, wolf, bear, wisent & auroch were equally good.
AND i don't see that as a problem.


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## tyusclan (Jan 1, 2005)

dngrous said:


> Absolutely NO WAY would I ever want to hunt like that.
> 
> If I can't make the kill with ONE SHOT, I don't take the shot. I see no reason to make the animal die slower just because it gives a person more of a thrill. When and if I do hunt, it's for food,* never sport.* (with the exception of crows, and those are to build stalking experience)


Sorry, but I don't buy it. Everyone who hunts does so for the sport of it. Yes, you may indeed eat what you shoot, but if you're only hunting for "food" save your money and go buy ribeye steaks. You'll come out cheaper.

Every ethical hunter makes every effort to make a one-shot kill, but there are too many variables to say that you won't shoot unless you know you can make a one-shot kill. The animal can move, an unseen branch can deflect your shot, or one animal may just absorb more than another before going down. Real life is real and it don't always work out like we think it will.


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## dngrous (Sep 22, 2009)

tyusclan said:


> Sorry, but I don't buy it. Everyone who hunts does so for the sport of it. Yes, you may indeed eat what you shoot, but if you're only hunting for "food" save your money and go buy ribeye steaks. You'll come out cheaper.
> 
> Every ethical hunter makes every effort to make a one-shot kill, but there are too many variables to say that you won't shoot unless you know you can make a one-shot kill. The animal can move, an unseen branch can deflect your shot, or one animal may just absorb more than another before going down. Real life is real and it don't always work out like we think it will.


I didn't think I needed to clarify myself, but I was apparently wrong.

I meant I don't hunt ONLY for sport. Yes, I enjoy hunting, so there IS sport involved. But, I don't toy with the animals, and I don't do anything that will intentionally cause more suffering or stress.

I know there's always the possibility of a missed shot, but I strive to eliminate the variables. And I think you pegged it with your statement, "Every ethical hunter makes every effort to make a one-shot kill."
Chasing down a wild hog with a spear just doesn't seem ethical to me.

That's my opinion, and everyone's entitled to their own.


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## Guest (Sep 29, 2009)

tyusclan said:


> Sorry, but I don't buy it. Everyone who hunts does so for the sport of it. Yes, you may indeed eat what you shoot, but if you're only hunting for "food" save your money and go buy ribeye steaks. You'll come out cheaper.


Absolutely not true. I have hunted when it was that or go hungry. No sport about it, no way no how (and I can tell you from *experience*, it's not easy living off the land and you have no pleasure of any kind in hunting when you're not getting enough to eat for long periods of time).

There were also times when I was a kid when my stepfather hunted or fished to keep us from going hungry.


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## tyusclan (Jan 1, 2005)

dngrous said:


> I didn't think I needed to clarify myself, but I was apparently wrong.
> 
> I meant I don't hunt ONLY for sport. Yes, I enjoy hunting, so there IS sport involved. But, I don't toy with the animals, and I don't do anything that will intentionally cause more suffering or stress.
> 
> ...


I knew what you meant. I just get a little tired of one group of hunters constantly finding something to slam another group about because they may not particularly care for that type of hunting. "Sport hunting" is a favorite target. Somehow it's more noble to "hunt for food". Sport or trophy hunters often spend a lot of money and time traveling to different places looking for a better rack than they have. They'll buy licenses, book guides, stay in motels, buy gas and food, etc, and may hunt for several years and not even take a shot because they won't kill anything unless they can get a nicer rack than the one they have. That's not something I'd want nor can afford to do, but it's not unethical as far as I'm concerned, and I'm certainly not going to tell them they shouldn't do it. The more the anti's can get us arguing amongst ourselves the less work they have to do.



ladycat said:


> Absolutely not true. I have hunted when it was that or go hungry. No sport about it, no way no how (and I can tell you from *experience*, it's not easy living off the land and you have no pleasure of any kind in hunting when you're not getting enough to eat for long periods of time).
> 
> There were also times when I was a kid when my stepfather hunted or fished to keep us from going hungry.


There are always exceptions. I know most people *can* hunt cheaper than they do, but in the vast majority of cases "hunting for food" does *not* save anyone any money. By the time you count the cost of guns, ammo, licenses, vehicle, gas, and on and on, you've bought some expensive meat.


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## Riverdale (Jan 20, 2008)

dngrous said:


> I didn't think I needed to clarify myself, but I was apparently wrong.
> 
> I meant I don't hunt ONLY for sport. Yes, I enjoy hunting, so there IS sport involved. But, I don't toy with the animals, and I don't do anything that will intentionally cause more suffering or stress.
> 
> ...



Do you bow hunt?


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## dngrous (Sep 22, 2009)

Riverdale said:


> Do you bow hunt?


Nope. I tried for nearly a month to learn how to shoot a bow, with my then-girlfriend training me. At one time, she was the best in the state for her age group.
Anyway, after a month of it, I still couldn't hit the (rather large) target. I gave up, lol.


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## ninny (Dec 12, 2005)

dngrous said:


> Nope. I tried for nearly a month to learn how to shoot a bow, with my then-girlfriend training me. At one time, she was the best in the state for her age group.
> Anyway, after a month of it, I still couldn't hit the (rather large) target. I gave up, lol.




Is that when she dumped you?

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## dngrous (Sep 22, 2009)

ninny said:


> Is that when she dumped you?
> 
> .


Actually, I broke it off with her when I discovered she was smoking behind my back and lying to me about it.


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## huck (Feb 11, 2008)

Didn't care for the video. The whole exercise seemed ridiculous.



> From a movie I watched last night....
> 
> "Just because it's the way it is, doesn't mean it's the way it should be."
> 
> Brownie points to whoever guesses the movie


Australia, said by Nicole Kidman's character. Good movie.


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## dngrous (Sep 22, 2009)

huck said:


> Didn't care for the video. The whole exercise seemed ridiculous.
> 
> 
> 
> Australia, said by Nicole Kidman's character. Good movie.


I was actually thinking of when Drover said it to the bartender, but close enough...


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## WstTxLady (Mar 14, 2009)

Running pigs with dogs & then taking them out with a knife or spear is a HUGE rush. Its getting to be very popular in Tx...its all good as long as its another way to rid this state of those pests, so many they are disposable.


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## Gregg Alexander (Feb 18, 2007)

I agree with the rush. When , cowboy'n in Texas 25 yrs ago, hogs were a pest then. We would take a pig every couple of weeks for food and fun


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## Pops2 (Jan 27, 2003)

Gregg didn't used to be many hogs in west TX. hogs have exploded they're moving into NM in big numbers because of it. the hogdogging w/ a knife is pretty new to west TX hunters.


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## WildBillTN (Feb 1, 2006)

I hunted wild hogs in Florida's Big Cypress Swamp years ago using pit bull dogs to catch them, and a well-placed stab with a knife to dispatch them. Smaller ones we would tie up, take home and feed out for the freezer.


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## pred (Aug 10, 2008)

WstTxLady said:


> Running pigs with dogs & then taking them out with a knife or spear is a HUGE rush. Its getting to be very popular in Tx...its all good as long as its another way to rid this state of those pests, so many they are disposable.


If people only had this "Rush" in keeping criminals off the streets.
I am sorry,,,,
The Rush is too much like killing purely for the sport of it and I am embarrassed that I too am a human and am represented by these yahoos in the jeep with spears slashing at a hog in desprit efforts in feeling like a "MAN"
I see this practice as a way to compensate for their lack of whatever.....
At least with Football everyone playing knows what they are there to do...
I dont condone in the torture of any animal...
If you're going to eat it, Kill it with grace and swiftness.
This entire thing makes me angry and disappointed that folks think this slaughter is OK.
I eat meat,
I have killed,
But to end anythings life with fear and panic is just NOT RIGHT, Especially if it's for nothing more than a thrill.
If you want the thrill, Go after a hog with a knife, Or a spear and no sag wagon...
Then eat it if it does not kill and eat you first.
Sorry for the rant,
I have said enough here.
Peter


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## Ed Norman (Jun 8, 2002)

I guess if you want to get technical, a flushed pheasant or covey of quail has fear and panic when you hunt. So does a deer that winds you and snorts right before you shoot. So does a flock of ducks or geese that flair right above the block of decoys. So does a squirrel trying to hide behind a limb. So does a cottontail staying still under a bush, hoping you don't see him while you aim. 

There are too many groups wanted to whittle away my rights to hunt and have guns, so I support all legal forms of hunting. I may not participate or enjoy watching them, but I support them. Whenever they get one more little way to hunt outlawed, they begin on the next little way.


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## Pops2 (Jan 27, 2003)

peter
the rush comes from the fact that the hog can kill you back. it is similar to the rush of a gunfight.


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## pred (Aug 10, 2008)

I agree somewhat with the two above posters.
The flushing of quail and the like is one thing,
And the thrill of a gun fight,, Well I dont want to be part of that.
Also an NRA member and have a permit to carry.
I believe in our rights, And am a avid firearms collector and believe that we should be able to hunt, And I will also agree that the tree huggers are trying to whittle away at our rights, And this hog hunt is one of the cantelevers of which they get their prybars under showing the inhumane way it's done.
I also lead off road exibitions, We go through very rough terrain, Severe slopes and the like, With lots of winching out, BUT we always keep our speed down, Use tree straps when needing to use a tree to anchor to as not to damage the tree with the winch lines, And never litter,
We do this so when the park rangers see us as well as other types, We ARE caring for the forests.
Peter


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## phlip99999 (Aug 20, 2009)

> the rush comes from the fact that the hog can kill you back


I had never heard of hunting hogs with dogs and knife before, so I thought I'd see what was out there. After watching a couple Youtube videos of guys hunting hogs with dogs and knife, I'm not seeing how the hog can kill the hunter, what with six pitbulls stuck to its head and neck. Am I missing something? Is a typical hunting pack smaller?

My initial reaction to it was horror. I'm not at all opposed to hunting (I was out this last weekend), but this seemed like the next best thing to pit fighting dogs. Can someone explain what I'm missing?


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## WstTxLady (Mar 14, 2009)

not everyone has several dogs...some run just 1-2

the point of having a few dogs is to get head control of the animal so it doesn't slice u nuts to neck & YES people have been killed/seriously hurt from pig cuts


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## liquorlawman (Jun 14, 2008)

My oldest did it with a bowie knife. No spear. Just let the dogs corner it. Then when you can you move in and drive the blade in and run like hades. 

Gonadious Maximous


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## Pops2 (Jan 27, 2003)

phlip999999999
typical of youtube videos, what you're seeing is nimrods who don't really know their but from a hole in the ground. too many dogs increases the chances of dogs getting hurt. that said i've seen hogs w/ a dog on each ear cut a guy's calf almost in two & seen another fella get sliced inside his thigh. not all hogs are made the same. some go down easy & some don't. most anyone who does it for any length of time gets cut at least once & usually from having too many dogs out at once.
done properly knifing kills faster than most gunshots.

ETA
liquorlawman
if your boy did it that way then he wasn't taught right. if he went w/ me & still did it that way i wouldn't hunt w/him. poke & run gets dogs hurt or killed and is a good way of getting the hog to focus on you while he's still able to do damage.


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## phlip99999 (Aug 20, 2009)

> done properly knifing kills faster than most gunshots.


So the time the dogs are hanging off the hogs face and chewing on it doesn't count in the time 'til dead?

If I put it in terms of how I'd rather die, would I like to suffer for a while at the hands of dogs before someone knifes me, or get shot and potentially bleed out, I'm gonna have to go with the gunshot. Maybe it's a little personal fantasy that a gunshot is cleaner than being chewed on by dogs. I don't know. I do know if that ever comes to a vote in this state, I can't see a reason I'd vote for allowing it.


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## tyusclan (Jan 1, 2005)

phlip99999 said:


> I do know if that ever comes to a vote in this state, I can't see a reason I'd vote for allowing it.


This is a prime example of why our founders set a representative republic instead of a democracy, so that laws can't be changed on a whim by people voting with their emotions instead of the facts. Most of these things look far more cruel than they actually are.

If you don't think this a method of hunting that you would enjoy there is no law that says you have to participate. I have hunted hogs with dogs. I didn't hunt the way those guys hunt, and normally only used two dogs, one trail dog and one catch dog. We either tied them up and took them out live, or shot them. Even though I don't personally care to hunt using their methods I'm not going to try to stop them if that's the way they want to hunt. The next method they try to stop might be mine.


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## brownegg (Jan 5, 2006)

I'm also one of the folks that think this a stupid and inhumane way to kill a hog. The stress can't provide anything other than tough meat.

If these boys or anyone wants a real rush.....go into the inner city at night without a weapon....that will cure your need.

brownegg


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## legacy (Oct 16, 2005)

Are these guys supposed to be doing something special by running down wild boars in a jeep and stabbing them with a knife attached to a pole?

Why not just run em over? That would probably take more skill than irritating the dumb animal until it charged your vehicle, then poking it.

Whup-tee-do.


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## WstTxLady (Mar 14, 2009)

...there are just way to many stupid feral pigs out there to worry about it, they are disposable


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## phlip99999 (Aug 20, 2009)

> This is a prime example of why our founders set a representative republic instead of a democracy, so that laws can't be changed on a whim by people voting with their emotions instead of the facts. Most of these things look far more cruel than they actually are.


Okay, fact: Being chewed on by a dog while a hunter figures out a way to stick a blade in the hog means the hog is suffering. Those were not contented gruntlings coming off those hogs. They were screams. Take the dogs out of the equation, and hunt all you want. Adding the dogs means the prey suffers. It's not like you're going to tree a hog with your pack, so the dogs can hold the animal until you catch up.

If you can't find a way to take an animal without making it suffer for a while first, I have no hesitation in outlawing it. This isn't a whim. It isn't being squeamish or anti-hunting or anti-meat or anything else. It's about being ethical and a good steward of the bounty God put on this earth for man to manage.



> ...there are just way to many stupid feral pigs out there to worry about it, they are disposable


Wow. I hope you're joking.


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## tyusclan (Jan 1, 2005)

phlip99999 said:


> Okay, fact: Being chewed on by a dog while a hunter figures out a way to stick a blade in the hog means the hog is suffering. Those were not contented gruntlings coming off those hogs. They were *screams.* Take the dogs out of the equation, and hunt all you want. Adding the dogs means the prey suffers. It's not like you're going to tree a hog with your pack, so the dogs can hold the animal until you catch up.


Hogs don't "scream", they squeal. They squeal not only when they're hurt, but when they're mad. There are very few things any tougher than a wild hog. I've seen one hog cut down three or four dogs in a row. They can handle themselves just fine. 

Again, if you don't like the way hunt, you have the right NOT to hunt that way. You do NOT have the right to tell them they can't.


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## poorboy (Apr 15, 2006)

tyusclan said:


> Hogs don't "scream", they squeal. They squeal not only when they're hurt, but when they're mad. There are very few things any tougher than a wild hog. I've seen one hog cut down three or four dogs in a row. They can handle themselves just fine.
> 
> Again, if you don't like the way hunt, you have the right NOT to hunt that way. You do NOT have the right to tell them they can't.


AMEN!:rock:


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## Ed Norman (Jun 8, 2002)

tyusclan said:


> Again, if you don't like the way hunt, you have the right NOT to hunt that way. You do NOT have the right to tell them they can't.


He's from Oregon. They voted to outlaw hounds for running lion. 

I feel sorry for the good folks in the eastern half who get outvoted by the fools in the western half.


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## WstTxLady (Mar 14, 2009)

tyusclan said:


> Hogs don't "scream", they squeal. They squeal not only when they're hurt, but when they're mad. There are very few things any tougher than a wild hog. I've seen one hog cut down three or four dogs in a row. They can handle themselves just fine.
> 
> Again, if you don't like the way hunt, you have the right NOT to hunt that way. You do NOT have the right to tell them they can't.


EXACTLY.....another case if u dont like it, then just dont do it




phlip99999 said:


> Wow. I hope you're joking.


No I am not, they are a destructive plague that needs elimination...by ANY means. I have seen/experienced first had how they can tear up farmland, your yard, your TRUCK when they run out in front of you, how they tear up a feeder & pen, run off the deer I am trying to hunt to fill the freezer...I can go on all night. I have NO heart from them & will shot every single one I see & more.


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## phlip99999 (Aug 20, 2009)

> I feel sorry for the good folks in the eastern half who get outvoted by the fools in the western half.


I do too. However, in this case, you don't know what you're talking about. You have no idea how I voted, and you don't know if I'm a fool. You just surmise that I live on the western half of the state because I disagree with you. Great deduction, there.



> Again, if you don't like the way hunt, you have the right NOT to hunt that way. You do NOT have the right to tell them they can't.


That's just crap. Some things are wrong, and you have a moral obligation to stand up for what is right. That's why we have ANY laws.

Consider murder. I have the right to abstain from murdering. Does that give you the right to murder? No. Murder is wrong, and there is a law supporting that, because some folks just can't seem to abstain.

Consider theft. Consider rape, incest, polygamy, whatever. Every single one is a moral decision being forced on some who would otherwise choose to do them. Consider NAMBLA, and why we have laws to protect young children from predators. Some folks just can't seem to do right.



> No I am not, they are a destructive plague that needs elimination...by ANY means.


So they're a pest. They're also a living, breathing thing. As a human being, it may be good stewardship to eliminate them, but you don't have to do that in a way that is cruel.



> I have NO heart from them & will shot every single one I see & more.


This I get. Shoot 'em. End it quick. Eliminate the pest. They don't have to be tortured first.


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## Pops2 (Jan 27, 2003)

phlip99999 said:


> So the time the dogs are hanging off the hogs face and chewing on it doesn't count in the time 'til dead?


 still faster than alot of nimrods i've seen w/ their magical 7mm magnums and their ---- poor gutshooting of standing deer at 200yds (500 as they pace it off). i've NEVER found a dog caught & knife stuck hog stumbling around dieing from gangrene or w/ a leg cutoff and being eaten alive by coyotes. OTH i've found poorly shot deer in EVERY state i've lived & hunted in and in some of the states i've lived in but didn't get to hunt. in fact i've averaged two a year for every year i've been home.
most deer & hogs shot "correctly" by stand sitters run a fair distance after the shot waiting for their lungs to collapse & their system to shut down from blood loss in pain & fear the whole time. 
nearly all adult hogs have a hide & bristles so thick that only exceptionally large & powerful dogs can cause any significant pain or damage. the average dog's bite on a hog is equivalent to a hard pinch, sharp & painful but not real sufferring. when you stick a hog correctly (roughly in the "armpit") it drops to zero blood pressure instantly and is stone dead in about 3-5 seconds.



phlip99999 said:


> If I put it in terms of how I'd rather die, would I like to suffer for a while at the hands of dogs before someone knifes me, or get shot and potentially bleed out, I'm gonna have to go with the gunshot. Maybe it's a little personal fantasy that a gunshot is cleaner than being chewed on by dogs. I don't know. *I do know if that ever comes to a vote in this state, I can't see a reason I'd vote for allowing it.*


we've covered your arguing from holier than thou ignorance, & i'm getting used to this from nonhunters & deershooters so i'm not shocked. but you are completely willing to use your position of ignorance as a basis for taking away you neighbors liberty and that puts you in the same traitorous class as PETAphiles, Sarah Brady and any number of selfrighteous whackos.


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## Pops2 (Jan 27, 2003)

phlip99999 said:


> Okay, fact: * Being chewed on by a dog while a hunter figures out a way to stick a blade in the hog means the hog is suffering. * Those were not contented gruntlings coming off those hogs. They were screams. *Take the dogs out of the equation, and hunt all you want.* Adding the dogs means the prey suffers. It's not like you're going to tree a hog with your pack, so the dogs can hold the animal until you catch up.


 1. guess you better eradicate all the lions, hyenas, coyotes, wolves & other wild canids as they eat the animals while they are still alive and screaming and so have caused FAR MORE sufferring than i & my dogs ever have. 2. YOU DON"T HAVE THE RIGHT TO MAKE THST CHOICE FOR ME.



phlip99999 said:


> *If you can't find a way to take an animal without making it suffer for a while first, I have no hesitation in outlawing it.* This isn't a whim. It isn't being squeamish or anti-hunting or anti-meat or anything else. It's about being ethical and a good steward of the bounty God put on this earth for man to manage.
> 
> 
> 
> Wow. I hope you're joking.


 guess you better outlaw deer shooter's then.
being a good steward means eradicating dangerous invasive nonnative species by the BEST means possible. hogs are very smart and will learn to avoid baits & traps after a single incident, in TX they have even learned to avoid USDA shooters in helicopters. when all that no longer works, the ONLY way to catch & kill them is with dogs.


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## Pops2 (Jan 27, 2003)

phlip99999 said:


> Some things are wrong, and you have a moral obligation to stand up for what is right. That's why we have ANY laws.
> 
> Consider murder. I have the right to abstain from murdering. Does that give you the right to murder? No. Murder is wrong, and there is a law supporting that, because some folks just can't seem to abstain.
> 
> Consider theft. Consider rape


what kind of mentality can even remotely compare hogdogging w/ murder & rape? certainly not a rational one, in fact this is a common tactic of PETAphiles who don't even remotely deal in rational or truthful thought.

but i'm going to address your arguement anyway.
rape and murder are acts of violence against another human being. they are acts which cause permanent harm. if you cross that line once you are forever a threat to society and should be handled in such a way that you can never harm anyone else again, ideally by execution.
OTH
you don't even know when i stick a pig caught by my dogs. since my actions in no way infringe on your right to do as you see fit w/ your time, property & resources, they can in no way harm you. in fact everytime i engage in such actions i am actually benefitting the environment and thus performing a public service. consequently neither you nor any government have a moral right to prohibit them.

(yes i purposely ignored incest & polygamy because when these actions are undertaken by consenting adults they are no more anyone's business than other socially acceptable sexual or marital relationships. when children are forced to engage in such acts that is yet another form of rape and my position has already been covered.)


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## Reptyle (Jul 28, 2005)

Good posts Dave! I dunno that I've ever seen you get this riled up!


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## Ed Norman (Jun 8, 2002)

phlip99999 said:


> I do too. However, in this case, you don't know what you're talking about. You have no idea how I voted, and you don't know if I'm a fool. You just surmise that I live on the western half of the state because I disagree with you. Great deduction, there.


I made no guesses as to where you live or how you vote, and I also don't care. I merely said I feel sorry for the good folks in the eastern half who get outvoted by the fools in the western half. There are surely fools in the east and good folks in the west, too. You seem mighty defensive for some reason. 

Trying to equate legal hunting to rape and murder doesn't help you case at all. Try again.


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## Pops2 (Jan 27, 2003)

Reptyle said:


> Good posts Dave! I dunno that I've ever seen you get this riled up!


that's only because eminent domain is pretty universally despised on this forum. seriously i get fired up about anyone who is willing to take away their neighbor's liberty simply because they disagree w/ something they do that has absolutely no effect on their life. that's just petty, ----y & stupid.


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## Gregg Alexander (Feb 18, 2007)

There is a man out near Haskel,Tx called Bare Foot Bob . Ever heard of him? Him and his dogs have taken hundreds of hogs. The way we hunt them here is turn the strike dogs loose, send in the bay dogs and finally cut the catch dog loose. When we get to the hog, stick him just back of the shoulder and twist the knife and pull up tears the heart and finish him off. Here in Alabama , we have to kill on site, aganist the law to transport live wild hog , I know a couple of guys last yr got caught and fine was $500 /each for the 1 hog


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## Gregg Alexander (Feb 18, 2007)

For those that think this is inhumane, hogs will kill you and eat your body just like a grizzly, law of the jungle, kill or be killed. The hog will show no remorse.


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## phlip99999 (Aug 20, 2009)

> what kind of mentality can even remotely compare hogdogging w/ murder & rape? certainly not a rational one, in fact this is a common tactic of PETAphiles who don't even remotely deal in rational or truthful thought.


You missed the argument. You said:


> Again, if you don't like the way hunt, you have the right NOT to hunt that way. You do NOT have the right to tell them they can't.


My response was that that's a crap argument, because all laws are based on a moral decision. Just like murder laws, or theft laws, or anything else are based on moral arguments, so a law forbidding dog hunting of hogs is based on a moral decision. I was in no way equating hog hunting and murder, or hog hunting at incest, or hog hunting and pedophilia.




> Trying to equate legal hunting to rape and murder doesn't help you case at all. Try again.


So, let me state it again so that it's as clear as I can make it: making a law forbidding hunting of hogs with dogs follows the same process as making a law forbidding murder or theft or rape. I am comparing the process, not the act.



> 1. guess you better eradicate all the lions, hyenas, coyotes, wolves & other wild canids as they eat the animals while they are still alive and screaming and so have caused FAR MORE sufferring than i & my dogs ever have. 2. YOU DON"T HAVE THE RIGHT TO MAKE THST CHOICE FOR ME.


Wolves and hyenas and coyotes and lions do what they do. They're put on this earth as they are. They don't have rational choice. You do.

Also, I'm talking about MY vote, not society's vote. Make your arguments about why dog hunting is equally humane (which, by the way, you finally started to do), and we put it to a vote. I may not win. That's the whole democracy in action.

I've been challenging this on moral grounds (that it's cruel), and what I've been hearing back is that it's a right to be cruel. Credit to Pops that he finally addressed the question of whether it's cruel, with:



> still faster than alot of nimrods i've seen w/ their magical 7mm magnums and their ---- poor gutshooting of standing deer at 200yds (500 as they pace it off). i've NEVER found a dog caught & knife stuck hog stumbling around dieing from gangrene or w/ a leg cutoff and being eaten alive by coyotes. OTH i've found poorly shot deer in EVERY state i've lived & hunted in and in some of the states i've lived in but didn't get to hunt. in fact i've averaged two a year for every year i've been home.
> most deer & hogs shot "correctly" by stand sitters run a fair distance after the shot waiting for their lungs to collapse & their system to shut down from blood loss in pain & fear the whole time.
> nearly all adult hogs have a hide & bristles so thick that only exceptionally large & powerful dogs can cause any significant pain or damage. the average dog's bite on a hog is equivalent to a hard pinch, sharp & painful but not real sufferring. when you stick a hog correctly (roughly in the "armpit") it drops to zero blood pressure instantly and is stone dead in about 3-5 seconds.


So can I ask you, based on your experience, how often do the dogs bite through the hide of the hog? How often are there broken bones? How long are the dogs on the hog? How often does a hog escape?

Hopefully we're past all the outrage and yelling, now, and down to the meat of the argument of whether this is cruel. Please, will you me more information.


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## ||Downhome|| (Jan 12, 2009)

phil ummm let me run this by you again,I know others have but let me have a go here, wild hogs or feral pigs dont have any rights thier not suppose to be
they are dangerous and destructive, they like all other invasive and feral animals need to be erradicated by any means.

as far as hunting them , I never have but lets put this in perspective 

pigs are smart now wild pigs versus farm raised I would dare to say a wild pig would be the smarter out of the two (I'm using what I have seen of domestic cervids versus wild here to reach that decision, it only makes sense when your not pamperd you get smart quick or die most likly a horriable death at that , nature is a cruel and heartless mistress somtimes isnt she.)

people well smart are not as capable as a pig or a dog in certain terrain and if anything these natural abilitys in both these species are probably better matched then either to a person.

so we have the dog who is on par with the pig thus giving us a advantage on the prey ( wich is a unwanted species in the wilds of north america ) 
so when our dogs catch the pig for us would it be a cruel act to let them finish the job we used them to start as they are as god made them and dont have rational choice or is it more humane to dispatch the prey ourselfs.

and if so how do we preserve the safty of our dogs against friendly fire, dont think a gun would be to safe for them or really any projectile, I would think the ways its done would be the safest way for the dogs now if your ballsy enough to run up with just your knife and do the deed feel free but a rampaging hog is a dangerous beast and call this crazy but I think I would rather keep some distance between me and it and my pack of dogs wich could maybe mistake me for the hog in the heat of the moment.

any of this clicking in you mind or is this still an ethical thing, bottom line is you do what you have to to take your prey and if anything modern hunters are more ethical then many from the past, what ever game it is. 

this is what works for some people it is a bit of a bloodsport and I really dont have anything against hunting with dogs though the only game Im familar with is birds and the dog only makes physical contact with the game after its down. but as mentioned before most people here will tell you they dont want anothers will/view pushed upon them though then many will yell call the law later, Im with the "if you dont care for it dont do it" you can even take that a step farther and teach your kids your views and they in turn can teach thiers 
maybe in the course of all that maybe in converstion you can win converts over because your ideal appeals to them and a hundred years from now no one hunts pig like that but we dont need more laws we need less and the ones we keep need to be enforced for everyone! its nice of you to want to be noble but you cant really force that on someone or at least you shouldnt be able to with a clear Conscience, to each thier own!!!


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## WstTxLady (Mar 14, 2009)

sorry, phil...im not a bleeding heart when it comes to pigs...any means is any means...traps, shooting, dogs, snares, poison, claymores....ANYTHING.

yea they are living breathing things but not human & nothing more then an annoying pig

as for the "shoot & end it quick"...even the well placed shot isnt instant


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## Pops2 (Jan 27, 2003)

phlip99999 said:


> You missed the argument....
> My response was that that's a crap argument, because all laws are based on a moral decision. Just like murder laws, or theft laws, or anything else are based on moral arguments, so a law forbidding dog hunting of hogs is based on a moral decision. I was in no way equating hog hunting and murder, or hog hunting at incest, or hog hunting and pedophilia.


on the contrary, let me requote you



phlip99999 said:


> *Some things are wrong, and you have a moral obligation to stand up for what is right. That's why we have ANY laws.*
> 
> Consider murder. I have the right to abstain from murdering. Does that give you the right to murder? No. Murder is wrong, and there is a law supporting that, because some folks just can't seem to abstain.
> 
> Consider theft. Consider rape.


a reasonable person would interpret that to mean you think ALL laws are based on morals (which BTW are actually usually codified social norms, only a very few morals are universal and those are the ones which prevent inflicting harm on another person). and so you are equating the immorality of rape & murder w/ the "immorality" of a specific hunting technique. which brings us back to your "vote" to outlaw. you are willing to FORCE another person to live according to YOUR moral values which they do not share in regards to an activity which causes you (nor any other human being) NO HARM. even when it's done by majority vote (like lion hunting in CA) it's not morality but bullying by numerical superiority and no different in that regard from the laws prohibiting interacial marriage in the pre-civil rights act south. and again the intent of the founding fathers in having a republic over a pure democracy was to protect the rights of the minority from majority tyranny. so again you (including everyone who votes w/ you) do not have a moral right to dictate to another person what actions they can engage in that cause no harm to another person. remember animals do not have rights, this doesn't mean we shouldn't use social pressure to affect positive change (for example catch & release fishing when not legally required in order to improve the overall quality or the resource). but animals are not sentient beings and so do not have rights.





phlip99999 said:


> Wolves and hyenas and coyotes and lions do what they do. They're put on this earth as they are. They don't have rational choice. You do.


but the very valid point is that using the animal sufferring as a justification to ban an activity is hypocritical if you don't advocate the eradication of another group of animals causing identical or greater sufferring.



phlip99999 said:


> So can I ask you, based on your experience, how often do the dogs bite through the hide of the hog? How often are there broken bones? How long are the dogs on the hog? How often does a hog escape?


on an adult hog, rarely. most dogs used by the majority of hogdoggers aren't large enough to bite that hard. the most common injury is damage to the ears when caught by a dog since the dog & hog are pulling in opposite directions sort of. now most dogs can cause severe injury to a shoat (even little ones like beagles or fox terriers). 
on an adult again rarely and when there are extenuating circumstances like a tumble into a gully.
how long the dogs are on a hog (assuming you mean caught not just running or baying) is usually seconds to minutes depending on the exact style of catch dog used. i like a running catchdog because it means the hog runs less before it's caught but it also means it is caught longer because i am not as close when the catch is initially made. using bay dogs & leashed catchdogs may put your baydogs at risk of being killed for several reasons like overheating, getting hit by cars or shot if the hog runs onto another property.


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## ||Downhome|| (Jan 12, 2009)

phil I think your fighting the wrong fight, you need to solve the problem before it starts,
you need to make people contain the domestic pigs so feral populations dont develop
hence to need for hunt pigs, now Im sure most sportsmen ,and those that are truley looking for the manly man feeling are not in to canned hunts ,(I am not at least,Im all for "fair chase" the animal has its advantages and I mine) and yes there are pig hunts that are canned but all that Im aware of are with a gun and no dog/s
so well your cruelty argument might carry wieght in that sort of venue (canned hunt) , where it does not in this type of hunt as it stands. Im not against canned hunts mind you,I just think they should be done properly whole other topic though.


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## WstTxLady (Mar 14, 2009)

i believe this thread needs to die !!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## Ed Norman (Jun 8, 2002)

WstTxLady said:


> i believe this thread needs to die !!!!!!!!!!!!!


It was well on it's way until you opened it up again. 





Ooops, I just opened it, too.


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## Guest (Oct 15, 2009)

WstTxLady said:


> i believe this thread needs to die !!!!!!!!!!!!!


It had not been posted in for 3 days until you resurrected it.


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## phlip99999 (Aug 20, 2009)

I'm going to resurrect it just a little to say thank you to Pops for explaining how he does it. I appreciate an explanation outside of the videos that got this thing started, and outside of the anger this sparked.

We will have to agree to disagree. This is a moral issue for me, making another creature suffer for my sport. I understand these are pests. I just don't agree that the end justifies the means.


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## ||Downhome|| (Jan 12, 2009)

phil I watched the vid and I would have to say those are idiots in it, when I go after an animal it dont take a second poke at it ( and again I never hunted pigs and at that any critter with a spear) but I do bow hunt and they expire pretty quick (min or less) so Im sure should I pursue this sport I would get pretty efficient at it. but if its morals your after would it be more moral just to let these beasts ruin habitat for the native critters? or take them by any means? a pit trap would work best but theres no way to know who or what might fall in it. morals and ethics are two very different things as well as acceptable , need to balance between them.


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## Reptyle (Jul 28, 2005)

phlip99999 said:


> We will have to agree to disagree. This is a moral issue for me, making another creature suffer for my sport. I understand these are pests. I just don't agree that the end justifies the means.


If you "agree to disagree" shouldn't your final agreement be free of barbs? Or was your statement that it was a moral issue for you (meaning those of differing opinions lack morals) meant to be construed in some other way?


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## TedH71 (Jan 19, 2003)

I was starting to get out of baying contests with my dogs to wood hunting when I relocated to KS. They are rather serious about not allowing hunting hogs but you can call yourself a "feral hog removal service" and it's perfectly legal and allowed. I am considering traveling to OK and West Texas to get some hog hunting time in and maybe buying a cur dog or two for hunting. My preference is 1-3 cur dogs and up to 2 catch dogs. Those morons with multiple dogs are asking for accidents or deaths of the dogs because when hogs go for your dogs, they go for the weakest and the slowest dogs. Their teeth are long and sharp from continual sharpening. They can stab,slash, and bite. They are more than willing to eat your hand if you put your hand near their mouths guaranteed. They are also one of the few wild animals that will actually stalk you...bears are the other. They are commonly called the poor man's grizzly for obvious reasons. They also breed at 6 months of age and every 6 months or so. They are like roaches in parts of Texas and Oklahoma. Anyone have a need for an extra hunting partner who is still learning? :rock: PM me. Also may be in the market for a cur dog pup.


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## WstTxLady (Mar 14, 2009)

Not many in west Texas but more in the Panhandle, Central & LOTS in east Texas Ted. 

Any state that thinks pigs are not a risk & try to ban hunting them...its STUPID!!! Do they NOT see how bad it is here in Texas.

Very true fact that pigs WILL stalk you, that is why the dark in my part of Texas is very dangerous just due to having pigs here. They are worse then anything, they breed every 3 month, 3 weeks & 3 days...each year once they are mature enough to start.


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## TedH71 (Jan 19, 2003)

I may be moving to Amarillo for a job at Bell Helicopter. Gotta wait til end of Feb to find out.


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## phlip99999 (Aug 20, 2009)

> If you "agree to disagree" shouldn't your final agreement be free of barbs? Or was your statement that it was a moral issue for you (meaning those of differing opinions lack morals) meant to be construed in some other way?


Reptyle, there isn't any intended barb there. Some folks don't view it as being needlessly cruel. I do. We disagree. That's it. Nothing more intended.

If you want to continue the discussion, PM me. I'm done on the board.


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## TedH71 (Jan 19, 2003)

Sir, you live in Oregon where the hogs are not high in numbers but will be soon enough. Eventually your state will beg and ask the citizens to do whatever it takes to get rid of the hogs before long. I have a feeling feral hogs in Oregon are not aggressive yet because at this point in time, they have plenty of food and no competition. Just wait and see. Once hogs get less food and more hogs...they turn mean and even 2 day old piglets try to either bite you or run away while momma charges you. I suspect the hogs up there do not have Russian hog blood. IF they do, man! Their personality really changes. Pure Russian hogs have a real mean streak to them. That's how they have managed to survive where tigers roam and heavy winter storms. I think Oregonians just have their heads in the sand regarding this problem. That's fine. Yall will find out soon enough.


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## Ed Norman (Jun 8, 2002)

TedH71 said:


> Sir, you live in Oregon where the hogs are not high in numbers but will be soon enough. Eventually your state will beg and ask the citizens to do whatever it takes to get rid of the hogs before long. I have a feeling feral hogs in Oregon are not aggressive yet because at this point in time, they have plenty of food and no competition. Just wait and see. Once hogs get less food and more hogs...they turn mean and even 2 day old piglets try to either bite you or run away while momma charges you. I suspect the hogs up there do not have Russian hog blood. IF they do, man! Their personality really changes. Pure Russian hogs have a real mean streak to them. That's how they have managed to survive where tigers roam and heavy winter storms. I think Oregonians just have their heads in the sand regarding this problem. That's fine. Yall will find out soon enough.


Idaho has two populations of feral hogs now. Some guy from CA missed hunting them and imported Russians to his two places, and of course they escaped. I bet we'll be hunting them soon enough here. 

My first hog hunt in south Texas, we were on a ranch road at sunup and jumped a whole fleet of little 75 pounders. There must have been 15 of them. They ran down the 2 track in front of us until they got to the bottom of the draw. The leader turned towards the game fence to his left and stuck his rooter in it. The others gave him a big shove and got him through the new hole. Then the rest pushed and shoved until they were all through the fence. When they were done, there was a 5' hole in that expensive game fence.

As the sun came up, we could see hogs moving around the huge pasture, many miles square. It was short grass with brush patches. There were hundreds of hogs. The rancher said this pasture was about hunted out and he was about to open a new one that had more hogs. What a problem. 

On another hunt, the rancher had a wheat field with one wheat plant every foot, and those were grazed off. The rest were eaten or rooted by hogs. He let us spotlight, I guess it's legal there with permission. After we spent the day shooting hogs, we spent the night shooting hogs.


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## Pops2 (Jan 27, 2003)

Ed
in TX & many states certain species can be spotlighted like predators & nuisance species.
I can remember as a kid riding on the hood of a car driving down the dirt roads in TX shooting jacks & cottontails in the headlights w/ a 22.


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## WstTxLady (Mar 14, 2009)

Ed...anything but "game species" can be spotlighted. Pigs, varmints, exotics are all hunt-able at night with spotlights & are good fun at that.


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## Ed Norman (Jun 8, 2002)

I had done some spotlighting of coyotes in other states where it wasn't actually smiled upon by the law. It was nice to openly use a spotlight without having to keep one eye looking for blue lights.


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## ninny (Dec 12, 2005)

WstTxLady said:


> Ed...anything but "game species" can be spotlighted. Pigs, varmints, exotics are all hunt-able at night with spotlights & are good fun at that.




Careful with that kind of advice. If I remember correctly the game laws state something to the effect that "it is unlawful to spotlight where game animals, i.e. deer, are known to habitat." Before you run out with a spotlight might oughta check the game laws. I had a lengthy discussion with a game warden one night around midnight about that very thing.

.


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## WstTxLady (Mar 14, 2009)

Not unlawful because then there would be NO area to spotlight that deer weren't also. Kind of obvious that when you are out there squawking & squeaking for predators, you aren't out for deer. No need to worry especially if you have your OWN land as we do. Unless you have some "anti's" for neighbors that might call a false report in on you, no worries. IF you are worried, just call the warden & let him know when/where you are predator/pig hunting with spotlights & it will all be fine. Had this discussion with our local wardens before. That info below pretty much clears it up.

Here is the word from the Texas Parks & Wildlife site : ( http://www.tpwd.state.tx.us/publications/annual/hunt/means/ )

# Non-protected nongame animals and fur-bearing animals may be hunted at night with the aid of an artificial light on private property. If hunting at night, please make a courtesy telephone call to your local game warden.


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