# ACD, Blue Heeler, Red Heeler Owners



## shepmom (May 29, 2003)

First time I've enetered this forum...don't know why???

My good friend Max(GSD) is resting in doggie heaven. I've always owned GSD and one Schnauzer. Hubby brought home a Blue Heeler this past weekend. Never heard of that breed before. Of course, I went online so I'd have a clue. From what I've read they are very much like GSD just not as big.

Added photos of him today.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/mcountryhaven/sets/72157620774089382/

Tell me about your experience with Heelers. We have chickens and ducks...any problems likely with Sam killing them? We also have sheep but he's primarily a pet.


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## Serena (Apr 28, 2004)

A good sturdy crate is my first recomendation! My ACDs were the worst demolition crews there were... They are tooo smart, they think think think... its a job in itself outthinking them. I have had to replace a laundry room door, laundry rooms floor, bathroom floor... drywalll etc... from a bored ACD that got locked up a litttle to long in his opinion. 

We are down to our last ACD... this one has driven me crazy for 10 long years haha. Up until this year he was not trustworthy around our chickens and ducks and killed many of them if he escaped. We went without poultry for a few years and for some reason this year when we got them he doesnt go after them. Our boy gets put outside on a long lead outside part of the day(ESCAPE ARTIST HOUDINI DOG CANNOT BE KEPT IN A FENCE and I wont let him run loose....) Our chickens will come up where he is and tramble him trying to get his food and he doesnt bat an eyelash now. 

He also hasnt been around cattle since he was five years old and recently we took him out to see how he acted with some escapees. Everything "clicked" and he went to work like hed been doing it his whole life. 
Once they figure out what you want them to be doing they are awesome dogs, some just take a LOT more patience than others. I am tempted about twice a month to add another to our family... so far i am resisiting...


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## simplepeace (Oct 29, 2005)

Welcome to it!
Look up Skidboot on youtube so that you can see what kind of smart you will be dealing with  Of course someone spent hours training him, which is what they crave.

They are so smart, they do think, and they HAVE to have a job. The first 2-3 years well, there is some adjusting to how much energy they have, and how much work they need to do...  
Work him, and wear him out, then work him some more, then wear yourself out some more. It is the only way to survive them in their youth.

Mine were stubborn in a way, but eventually they learned to do what I asked immediately, just kind of begrudgingly if they thought they were doing it right already. It gets better with age. They are kind of *teenagery* for a good while.

Does someone in your family jog, or walk for miles? Not kidding. Mine were not destructive at all, but I did not leave them in the house when I was out when they were young. I had them at different times, but I took both with me to work.

Their job was to protect me - they were self appointed to that duty. They both loved the car, it was their domain. Be sure to socialize him, take him everywhere possible, and expose him to anything you can think of, otherwise they can sometimes get to be a bit too protective. In certain parts of the country if you see one in a car or truck you KNOW not to touch anything in the vehicle.

They both loved cats, and other animals (both females became female dog aggressive later in life). They were both housebroken fast too. Mine were both great in obedience classes, and neither of them EVER considered running off, not once. They were super velcro dogs.

ACDs are not like GSDs at all imo, except that they are devoted (though usually to one person over all else). Mine loved & protected everyone in the family, but looked to me first. 
Also, GSD are bred to be obedient first, an ACD is bred to work long hours first, to be obedient second.

I miss mine nearly every day still... I'll have another one day when I have the energy!


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## Ode (Sep 20, 2006)

I have 2 ACDs, both reds. I love them to bits, but the younger one sure is a handful. He is almost 2 years old now, so hopefully he will settle down soon. They are indeed very smart dogs, and it is never too soon to start training them. They love having a job, and will do just about anything. My older one 'helps' me do laundry by carrying something to the washer when I do a load. A small towel, a sock, whatever it is I accidentally on purpose drop so he can get it. He is very proud of himself for being such a helper, lol. 

Mine are pets, house dogs, but they have regular sessions of training and daily exercise and walks. They have killed a couple of opossums that strayed into their yard, and do not care for other dogs at all. They adore the car, and when they know they are going to get a ride they are in doggy heaven! Long ride or short, doesn't matter to them...it's all good.  

I always have a doggy entourage wherever I go. I guess I need protecting from the bathtub, and the basement, and the broom...so they are on guard to make sure nothing happens to mom. Stuck to my side like velcro, and as loving as can be. And their eyes are irresistable. The older one is instantly obedient, and always looks to me for direction. The younger one is obedient when he isn't too distracted to pay attention! I think he has a case of doggy ADD, hehe. Even so he is very smart and obeys very well.

They need a good diet, and you won't want to feed him puppy food long, it can cause problems if they grow too fast. I had mine on adult food by 3 months of age, and they now eat a raw diet. Before they ate raw, they had 'Taste of the Wild' which is a really good grain-free kibble.

The older one is going to be 8 this year, and I can see the beginning signs of age in him. I love him the most, and it will break my heart when he is gone. The best dog by far, that I have ever had in my entire life.


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## shepmom (May 29, 2003)

I'm already learning they are natured differently from GSD. This pup needs constant watching when awake! Constant entertaining. He thinks our shoes, pant legs, fingers, ears...any human part were made just for chewing/biting on. 
Trying to walk with him is a challenge. He spends so much time on top of my shoes. He unplugged the keyboard his second day here. Keep boxes blocking access to the wires now. Doggie gates. Wish I had a playpen just to let me rest from telling him ... No, no.
grin

He sleeps in crate at night now without screaming for hours, but once he sees the first person up that's it. I now have to be up tween 5:30-6 am to start his day.

Sadly my physical abilities are limited post car accident years ago and now having balance problems too. We have a large fenced yard and pastures for the hair sheep.
I read that ACDs like Frisbee play, something I could do to exercise him. Maybe, he'll enjoy some time with the sheep once he's older. They really don't need herding...they come running when they see us.

Any tips to break him from his human chew/bite fascination. No, stops him for a few seconds, light spanking makes him mad...any sprays/scents they don't like?


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## coalroadcabin (Jun 16, 2004)

Thank you for asking about Heelers! And congrats on your new puppy! I'll be reading all of the posts on this thread with great interest. I adopted a 6 month old GSD/Red Heeler mix from the pound on June 15th. He is an absolute doll baby! The only problem we have with him is that he loves to mouth my hands and feet and he chews *constantly* - I have to make sure he has plenty of chew toys around at all times or he'll chew the nearest object (including a metal lawn chair!!)


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## shepmom (May 29, 2003)

OMG, he's 6 months old and still soooo chewy! BWG 
Any pics?

I was hoping his age (nearly 7 weeks now) was making him so mouthy/chewy.
He has a truckload of chew toys(he does like his sock doodle, something I've used for many years for pups) but prefers human fingers, toes, arms, shoes, etc. I'm thinking I may try tobasco sauce, pepper to see if it deters him.

Sock doodle- soft tennis ball or rubber ball shoved to the toe section then close the sock with knots.


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## Rouen (Aug 19, 2004)

with hard headed puppies that wont take to other methods, I find closing their mouth slightly while they're biting you(making them bite you) and telling them no in a very stern voice makes them learn a little more faster. you dont have to hold it very long, just long enough for you to say no. he might give out a squeal, because no one has ever made him bite before.
and remember, correct then redirect, once he's removed his mouth from your body give him something good to chew. if you were playing a game when he started, stop the game.
at his age you'll want to be a little more careful with corrections as he is or will be going through a fear stage.


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## jane2256 (Feb 7, 2006)

Please keep in mind that these are herding dogs with very strong instincts. They need to chase and herd. That can mean joggers, bikers, children getting on/off the bus and cars. Most anything that goes past them will 'need to be brought back to the herd'. 
I have to have my guy on a very strong lead when we go for walks because of this, if I let him off lead he would shoot out to the road in no time.
Also, when we have large gatherings at the house he goes around snapping at peoples heels trying to herd us all together in on spot.


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## Otter (Jan 15, 2008)

Get a Kong a size bigger then you think you need. And a Buster food cube. These toys are your best friends if you have a busy, mouthy puppy. One of my favorite things to stuff a Kong with is good quality canned food - then freeze it.

As far as the mouthing, have you tried squealing or yelping like a puppy and walking away from him and ignoring him for 5 minutes or so. That usually works. If it doesn't I either grab his tongue (not mean, just hold it) or push my whole hand into his mouth. I don't scold or even make eye contact when doing this, it is just a natural consequence. When you walk into a wall, it hurts your nose, when you mouth my hand, you gag on it. Get your fingers back there so he hacks and does his best to get your hand OUT of his mouth. Again, no pinching, pulling, fingernails, hurting or meanness, just slide your fingers right on back until it is HIS idea to get your hand out of his mouth.

The very rare puppy who will then start grabbing clothes or pinching with the front teeth (very rare) then up the anty and learn to literally growl like a momma dog. When he does it, whip around, glare and snarl at him and put your hand over the top of his muzzle and shake it. Do NOT try this first as most puppies will submissively urinate. This is only for a puppy who responds to squealing with lots more mouthing and who decides if he pinches or grabs clothes he wont end up with a giant hand tickling his tonsils.

Enjoy your lovely puppy!


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## TedH71 (Jan 19, 2003)

With the floppy ears, he looks more like a blue tick coonhound. Heelers have upright ears that are that way usually by 8 weeks old. I speculate he is a mix of either heeler or bluetick coonhound. Nice pup tho!


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## Rouen (Aug 19, 2004)

Ted, from what I have seen 6-7 week old ACD's do have flop ears, so he's right on track with that so far.


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## shepmom (May 29, 2003)

Thank you all for all the excellent advice. I will try your recommendations Otter. Sounds like that might work with him. He's getting much better with me.

I added some more pics of him on Flickr. Photo moment as he lay on his back on the deck.
Url below...

He was free with a purchase of roll of hay. Mom(ACD) was either bred with neighboring ACD or Beagle according to the farmer. Vet said he has strong ACD traits.


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## Otter (Jan 15, 2008)

Aaaahhh!!

The link isn't working

need....puppy.....fix.....


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## Serena (Apr 28, 2004)

those ears sure do seem more beagly now that you've mentioned that. I had some that hadnt perked at that age, but they werent floppy looking like that, the bases of the ear were starting to harden up and they would have that silly half flop half perk thing going on. Hes still a cutey though. But wow... heeler and beagle.. I bet he will have a set of lungs on him... Our heelers if they were locked up for some reason and felt slighted had the shrillest yip bark that just peirced your brain. Add in some hound bay... Extra cute!


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## shepmom (May 29, 2003)

http://www.flickr.com/photos/mcountryhaven/sets/72157620774089382/

That link should work.
Fist in mouth makes him mad. As soon as he backs his mouth out of my fist he bites my fingers. Growling at him makes him back off. Then I distract him with one of his toys. That works for awhile. I'll just keep working with this hard headed rascal. smile


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## Otter (Jan 15, 2008)

He is OMG cute.

If he has a temper tantrum and snaps at your fingers, go off on him. 

Snarl (you'll feel silly, but he'll get it), big, angry eye contact, whip your hand towards him in a snapping dog motion and grab the scruff of his neck for a good shake. Then stalk off and give him the cold shoulder treatment for a few minutes. Make him work at getting you to "luv" him again.
Let him know in a big way that he is not allowed to get mad at you.

The hard headed ones are usually the ones who give you their very soul once they're convinced you're the boss. They never do anything half way.

I love the blanket pic. Did I mention that is an insanely cute puppy?


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## shepmom (May 29, 2003)

LOL, Otter it's a good thing he is so darn cute cause his personality is quite a challenge.

He is lifting the base of his ears today though majority still floppy. Will just have to wait and see. I hope they stay floppy. He'd be the first pet with flop ears.

He's outside with daddy helping water the critters. Well, he's more interested in finding rotten eggs and poo. ugh


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## Otter (Jan 15, 2008)

shepmom said:


> He's outside with daddy helping water the critters._ Well, he's more interested in finding rotten eggs and poo_. ugh


:rotfl: Yup, you've got a puppy alright ! :rotfl:


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## deb (Jul 27, 2002)

We have a ACD/Rat terrier which is a common farm dog in the local Amish community.

They are big chewers, so always give them "over sized" chew toys.

They are stubborn. You need to learn how to train them without inducing a case of the "i won'ts". Beagles are also stubborn

They are too smart , They need you to start training them at a young age or else they will figure things out for themselves

Don't let him get away with eating paper or fabric or you will regret it forever (ask me how I know )

ACD love their people, but they really need to be socialized with strangers or else they become too protective. Now is the time to get him used to strangers. take him everywhere.

ACD need to get used to small animals as pups and learn not to chase & kill them. We found ours running on a highway as a bigger pup and she was *wild*. I can not trust her with the chickens, even at 5 years old.

deb
in wi


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## Reptyle (Jul 28, 2005)

deb said:


> We have a ACD/Rat terrier which is a common farm dog in the local Amish community.
> 
> They are big chewers, so always give them "over sized" chew toys.
> 
> ...


I'd love to see a pic of an ACD/Rat Terrier cross. I can't imagine.


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## simplepeace (Oct 29, 2005)

Sam is sooo cute! 

Great advice from Otter on the nipping. I would add that yelping when they bite you has always helped me the most. Since that is what puppy playmates will do - because they are just playing and they don't really want to hurt you.

Raw beef rib bones at his age/ size would be a perfect chew toy. I would only give it to him 5 mins at a time at first (to be sure it doesn't upset his stomach). Once you know he can handle it, it is a great babysitter - while you are nearby of course). Bones like that saved my sanity, I would get at least an hours peace & then the puppy is so tired after working so hard on the bone that they sleep for half an hour . 

Kongs & the new kong bone are great, and though my dogs never much went for nylabones they did like the nylanbone dental dinosaur (it has nubs on it). I think frisbee or tennis balls would be a great way to get him his exercise. Is he interested in chasing things yet?

My last heeler could care less about chasing or fetching anything, but her mother was a fiend for her ball & frisbee. That dog was SO focused that she would acknowledge Nothing else if there was a ball around! 

His ears can go up and down through teething, so it could be awhile before you know. I have a dachshund x chihuahua and her ears will both stand up fully sometimes when it is cold, but when she is sunbathing they will both flop. Sometimes one is up and one is down (my personal favorite )

Watch this when he is a pill, it will give you hope!

This is Skidboot btw, a most amazing ACD.

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P2BfzUIBy9A[/ame]


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## deb (Jul 27, 2002)

Reptyle said:


> I'd love to see a pic of an ACD/Rat Terrier cross. I can't imagine.


I don't have a way to share pictures. Sorry.
Deb
in wi


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## ForMyACDs (May 13, 2002)

He looks like a beagle mix (the ear shape and drop of the ears and the coloration on the face are more beagle-like than ACD.....also the body spots are a give-away that there is a mix here.......it's rare to have a purebred with body spots like that as it's against breed standard). He is also a blue, not a red.

ACD's can be a handful and take much in the way of training......lots of consistent training.

Lots of good ACD information to be had here: www.cattledog.com


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## peacebaker (Dec 30, 2005)

Very cute pup! 

We have two ACD mixes. One is part lab, and is (was, now "retired") a great frisbee dog, ball retriever, and swimmer, all which was great at keeping a smart boy happy and out of trouble  Our old guys is now 12 and a half, and has been a very healthy and active dog up until the last year or so (still healthy, just slowing down, understandably).

I do tend to think the ACD dominates when crossed with other breeds.

Our newer pup is heeler x ? (aussie, border collie perhaps). Much different dog, very mouthy, you have to explain things to him rather than show him (the lab mix is much more a physical guy, the pup is much more hands-off). We're not used to his style--after 10+years with another dog-- but he has a lot of good attributes too, just different. Have taken a few classes with him which helps us a lot. I think with good training and lots of exercise they make great dogs. Perhaps not couch potatoes though! 


This is an old pic, the "pup" is now 18 months old...


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## shepmom (May 29, 2003)

Ohh, I love seeing other dog pics. They make a nice pair, Peacebaker.


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## shepmom (May 29, 2003)

** Is he interested in chasing things yet?**

Only live things. He's real big into people feet/shoes. And he is herding/blocking us. He's no longer fearful of the big chickens or ducks and has chased them. Tried to keep one duck cornered. Hasn't tried to bite them.

I just popped him one today for biting on me and the message finally struck home. I know mom dogs will bite the pups when she's had enough. I can't bite him, whining and yelping wasn't clear enough, growling(he'd stop, look and then continue)

He definately thinks and he thinks he wants to be in charge....sorry, Sam that's not going to happen. grin


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## shepmom (May 29, 2003)

Sorry Simplepeace, I'm on dial up and video breaks up too much not to mention very slow loading.


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## shepmom (May 29, 2003)

deb said:


> We have a ACD/Rat terrier which is a common farm dog in the local Amish community.
> 
> They are big chewers, so always give them "over sized" chew toys.
> 
> ...


He already likes yarn. I gave him a woolie spider mum "toy". He really like playing with that one along with his sock doodle...the rest only short periods at best.

We took a nice walk in the pasture today...I think I need to move more with him so he has less to boringly get into.


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## shepmom (May 29, 2003)

ForMyACDs said:


> He looks like a beagle mix (the ear shape and drop of the ears and the coloration on the face are more beagle-like than ACD.....also the body spots are a give-away that there is a mix here.......it's rare to have a purebred with body spots like that as it's against breed standard). He is also a blue, not a red.
> 
> ACD's can be a handful and take much in the way of training......lots of consistent training.
> 
> Lots of good ACD information to be had here: www.cattledog.com


I read at Wiki and a dog breed site about all the breeds that were used in developing ACDs.
..."It is rumoured that in order to create a breed that had a strong natural affiliation with horses, the Cattle Dog was crossed with the Dalmatian, which although not a working dog, was popular during the 19th and early 20th century as a carriage dog, running beside the horses. As a result of Dalmatian being introduced, Australian Cattle Dog pups are born all white and rarely, some adult dogs will have floppy ears, although undesirable, it is purely superficial and won't affect their abilities.

It was thought that the breeding with the Dalmatian led to the spotted colouration in some Blue Heelers, though this is considered undesirable, and is most commonly seen in mixed breed dogs that have Australian Cattle Dog in their ancestry. For many years "Blue Heelers" commonly had large black patches on the body, as well as the Collie's mask. 
"....

I thought maybe some Dalmation spots may have surfaced with him. He may have Beagle in him, the farmer wasn't sure. He isn't bred to any breed standards. grin He's definately got ACD in him. He amazes me how alert he is at this age.


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## shepmom (May 29, 2003)

Yesterday he found out that the ducks will only take so much of him chasing them, too.
grin
Hubby said one of the Silver Appleyard drakes whacked him with a wing. 
Though this AM that memory has faded as he chased a few away from the deck. The Light Brahma hens flare up at him, too. He's still afraid of the Blackbellies...too big for him.


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## ForMyACDs (May 13, 2002)

shepmom said:


> IIt was thought that the breeding with the Dalmatian led to the spotted colouration in some Blue Heelers, though this is considered undesirable, and is most commonly seen in mixed breed dogs that have Australian Cattle Dog in their ancestry. For many years "Blue Heelers" commonly had large black patches on the body, as well as the Collie's mask.
> "....
> 
> I thought maybe some Dalmation spots may have surfaced with him. He may have Beagle in him, the farmer wasn't sure. He isn't bred to any breed standards. grin He's definately got ACD in him. He amazes me how alert he is at this age.


Dalmation is SO far back in bloodlines that no you aren't going to see it popping up. Lots of body spots are seen in poorly bred ACDs (occasionally you will see a small one pop up on well bred dogs, but nothing to the extent of your pup), and are generally attributed to another breed somewhere "in the woodpile". 

The main reason I suspect your pup is part beagle isn't necessarily the drop of the ears, but the actual shape (ACDs have pointed or pointed with as SLIGHTLY rounded tip ears). The markings on the face are not typical ACD markings......they appear much closer to that of a beagle or other hound and fit in with the large body spots.

That's not to say that your pup isn't absolutely adorable!


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