# lets talk about grey water



## lonelyfarmgirl (Feb 6, 2005)

kind of a simple question really. Been looking at some info on greywater drainage systems, then MEN has an article this month about putting one in, but nowhere have I yet seen anything that specifies how they function in winter.

Here, it would freeze solid, so how do you handle winter time with a grey water system instead of septic?


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## Alice In TX/MO (May 10, 2002)

http://greywateraction.org/content/systems-cold-climates-including-wetlands


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## brushhippie (Jul 12, 2011)

Its basically a hole in the ground below the frost line filled with different sizes of gravel (progressively smaller toward the bottom). The size you need depends on how much water you're going to put through it and the perk rate in your area.


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## lonelyfarmgirl (Feb 6, 2005)

I would want to set it up so the lines water the orchard we will be planting.
Seems a waste to just dump it off in a hole somewhere.


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## brushhippie (Jul 12, 2011)

You can send it anywhere, just more complicated. If its downhill the possibilities are endless, that would not really be a french drain.


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## lonelyfarmgirl (Feb 6, 2005)

That link didn't really offer a solution at all, except switch to a septic in the winter. The whole point of doing the greywater thing in the first place is to avoid putting in a septic. It talks about wetlands. I certainly won't be creating one of those. Wetlands encourage mosquitos.

The frost line here is 4 feet, so we would have to dig a trench 6 feet deep (to accommodate for gravel) just for a winter line? May as well install a septic and forget it then.


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## PlicketyCat (Jul 14, 2010)

One option we've been looking at is running our wash house greywater through a greenhouse in the winter. Use the warm water both for hydration and a little heat in our arctic greenhouse to overwinter a few things, and the greenhouse beds will treat any surplus greywater so that it can be safely stored in an insulated tank below frost level until spring. The greenhouse limits the mosquito and freezing issues with many open constructed wetlands.

http://greywateraction.org/cat/image-galleries/greywater-recycling-images/systems-cold-climates

http://renewingthecountryside.org/c...tpages/task,view/category,38/id,58/Itemid,43/

http://www.oasisdesign.net/faq/gwCold.htm

Insulated pipes, short runs, proper angles and minimal bends definitely help keep water flowing completely through the pipes in winter so that none is sitting there waiting to freeze. That might not be enough for us here at -60F, but we can always switch to a capture bucket when it's that cold rather than relying on plumbing.

*Note: We have a dry cabin and use buckets on the kitchen and lav sink drains, which we consider "dark grey" water and dump directly on the compost pile regardless of season. Our bath/shower and laundry will be in a separate building, the "wash house", and we're planning to build the greenhouse right on to that to minimize heat loss and plumbing runs for this "light grey" water.


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## City Bound (Jan 24, 2009)

How about filtering the water with at the very least a crude sand filter, would any of you do that? I have been saving my gray water from washing my dishes and clothes in buckets to use to flush the toilet, and I have noticed that soap residue, oils and fats from foods and cooking, can emulsify in the water when the water cools and is left for a few days. Also, it may not look like it in the water that goes down the drain, but there are a lot of sediment particles. Even just in a three gallon bucket I have found notable sediment deposits, and I figure that if you had a system set in place that the amount of sediment after one year would be significant without a filter. How would you guys maintain and clean your system?


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## PlicketyCat (Jul 14, 2010)

I normally filter my "light grey" water through cheese cloth to get out any lint/hair/floaties before watering the garden. I don't use my dish water other than to keep the compost heap moist, so fat/bits aren't really that much of a concern. But I don't keep my greywater around for more than a few hours either since letting it sit around is too much of a pathogen risk. 

In my old laundry bypass, I had the water pour out into a sand bed, but that was just to keep it from splashing and to cover the exposed tube end so no one was aware it was there (yes, I was a renegade greywater gardener!) 

I suppose either a sand or charcoal filter would help remove emulsified fats, detergents and particulates if you did it while the water was still warm... otherwise you should get a few layers that could be strained/skimmed once it cools and settles. I know my sink bucket gets a nasty ring around it if I don't dump it before it cools down in the winter.


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## City Bound (Jan 24, 2009)

A sand filter would be good. I am figuring that the greater degree of filtering the greater the degree of applications that it can be used for.


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## PlicketyCat (Jul 14, 2010)

When you're dealing with greywater, it's important to understand the distinction between filtering and treating/purifying. 

In most greywater reuse systems, the water is passed through a relatively large filter (cloth, sand or GAC) to remove debris and sediments. This water may still contain potentially dangerous levels of bacteria and chemical residues. Storing this water for long periods is not recommended because it may allow bacteria to multiply. The use of many household chemicals (detergents, etc) may render this water unsuitable for most reuse purposes without further treatment.

There are many fine/superfine filters available that are designed to remove specific microorganisms and chemicals. These filter systems border on treatment systems, and are not normally practical for the majority of greywater reuse systems.

Treatment systems are designed to render tainted water safe to store and drink. These systems usually consist of coarse to superfine filtration and then some manner of chemical (ex. chlorine), physical (ex. boiling, UV), or biological (ex. septic, subsoil) treatment to render it safe.

Most practical greywater reuse systems would be considered biological treatment systems because they rely on soil micro & macro organisms and plants to remove harmful residues. Essentially, we are getting the added benefit of biological water treatment when we use this greywater in our gardens, landscape, and constructed wetlands... as long as we do not kill these beneficial flora and fauna with the contents of our greywater or supply more greywater than they can process effectively.


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