# Please Help w/ A Simple Dog Food Recipe



## Tango (Aug 19, 2002)

I'm having a nervous condition with this Diamond recall. I bought a bag of Nutro Max Natural but I'm scared to trust my dogs to it - to any food, really. We've done a lot of reading on Dog food ploys and with this latest episode I think I'm going to burst. I'm living off grid and want to begin preparing my dogs' own food again. In Florida I had a kitchen, a commercial freezer, a rabbitry, and a lot of convenience. Here I have a propane cook stove and winter. I can use goat or deer meat, rice, macaroni, some vegetables available at the grocery store, and I can purchase supplementation. Canb anyone give me an easy to make and easy to keep recipe for my dogs? I have a 2 year-old American Bulldog male who suffered with skin allergies until we started him on Diamond Professional. I have a 4 year old neutered hairless Chinese Crested, a 6 month -old female Catahoula with very high energy requirements, and an 11 week old Great Pyrenees female who is a bottomless pit. During this winter I can safely make one weeks' worth of feed and keep it in my 5 day cooler. It won't freeze. Anyone have an easy recipe I can give my clan and ease my nervous condition? Thanks in advance.


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## marvella (Oct 12, 2003)

i don't have any recipes, but i've had really excellent luck with joy brand maintenence plus dog food.


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## Pyrenees (Oct 23, 2004)

Please take the mycotoxin thing in perspective...in the last ten years there has been only one other reported case among the large manufacturers (Natural brand) out of the billions of dollars of food manufactured and sold. 

Given the quantity of food you would be preparing (and I applaud you for being able to even consider the undertaking)...you would have a much higher chance of doing damage to your dogs from feeding a raw/home-cooked diet without capacity for refrigeration/freezing than you would feeding from a commercial dog food.


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## Pyrenees (Oct 23, 2004)

Oops...(Natural brand) should be (Go Natural brand)


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## GoldenMom (Jan 2, 2005)

Are you talking a long-term diet or a month or two until you have better facilities? If we're talking relatively short term, feed the dogs what you are eating (pretty simple, huh?). The adults should need between 2-3% of their body weight per day and the pup will probably need more like 6%+/-. If you don't want to just fix more of your food (or if you splurge and get something expensive for yourself) they would probably be just as happy with some oatmeal, veggies, eggs, and meat (preferably with the bone). Buy some doggy multi-vitamins and give them each a vitamin when you think about it. Personally I would go heavy on the meat/bones and lighter on the grain. Be sure to add some liver and other organ meat occassionally. If you are looking for a more permanent diet, visit the library and see if you can find a homemade dog food book. I think that will be easier than re-typing a bunch of recipes! Good luck.


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## MARYDVM (Jun 7, 2004)

Home-prepared Dog and Cat Diets, a book by Donald Strombeck has many recipes with common household ingredients. I put some in our computer at work to print out for clients who's cats won't eat our prescription kidney diet. The book has lots of recipes for healthy animals as well as diets modified for different diseases. Kind of pricey, but you might find it on Amazon, or a local vet might let you copy from their book.

http://store.blackwell-professional.com/0813821495.html


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## Tango (Aug 19, 2002)

Pyrenees said:


> Please take the mycotoxin thing in perspective...in the last ten years there has been only one other reported case among the large manufacturers (Natural brand) out of the billions of dollars of food manufactured and sold.


The only perspective I see is that someone lost her dog to the dog food company I use currently from the mill which currently serves my area. That is the closest we've ever gotten to any of the problems and a mycotoxin outbreak is merely one of many. Which of my dogs will I accept losing? None. We make choices based on what we consider reasonable. I raise my own meat and veggies for my family, and yet I chose to trust my dogs to someone else. I'm not prone to an attack of nerves but to be honest here I've lost two dogs prematurely to unexplainable conditions: renal failure for my Catahoula and a body riddled with tumors for my Rottie before her. I had already made the decision to switch to a partially raw/ partially cooked diet for my dogs when I had more convenience. I thought it would be fine to put them back on commercial food for the time it took to get the kitchen and appliances but it isn't for me.


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## Tango (Aug 19, 2002)

Thanks Marvella but I won't feed a store brand at all. 
Sarah, last night I had a couple of oatmeal cookies for dinner and some leftover popcorn for breakfast- my diet is definitely worse than whan my dogs eat  I have a couple of your recipes saved on my desktop computer which isn't here yet. I can do either but the deer meat will be only through hunting season anway. I don't want to get into the tedium of raising rabbits again so I might get some broad-breasted whites to raise for them and butcher an ocassional goat. Of the carbs, which is easier to digest? They have preferred macaroni to rice before, never tried oatmeal... Mary thanks for the link that is a must have book.


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## GoldenMom (Jan 2, 2005)

Guess my dogs aren't picky-they'd eat any grain I put in front of them. Maybe you could cook the rice in broth to make it tastier. Don't think any particular grain (unless somebody is allergic) will do any better for you.


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## longshadowfarms (Nov 27, 2002)

Pyrenees said:


> Please take the mycotoxin thing in perspective...in the last ten years there has been only one other reported case among the large manufacturers (Natural brand) out of the billions of dollars of food manufactured and sold.
> 
> Given the quantity of food you would be preparing (and I applaud you for being able to even consider the undertaking)...you would have a much higher chance of doing damage to your dogs from feeding a raw/home-cooked diet without capacity for refrigeration/freezing than you would feeding from a commercial dog food.


More questions for you vets coming out of this whole dog food issue:

My vet yesterday mentioned that aflatoxin is a carcinogen and that even if these dogs survive the liver problems, they are concerned that down the road a ways they may die prematurely from cancer. Maybe I'm a bit off here but it seems to me that cancer is on the rise in dogs. Do you think it is higher awareness? More people taking dogs to vets rather than just letting nature take it's course? Or is it possible that low level aflatoxin poisoning has been going on in our country's dog population for longer than we have paid attention before? I'm not ready to make my own dog food but I'm sticking with a non-corn formula as long as I have dogs until the corn problems change or we become aware of major issues with other things like rice. Have any of you vets heard any connection between low level aflatoxin poisoning and hair loss or fertility problems? I do want to thank all of you for contributing to this forum! We are so blessed to have such a knowledgeable group checking in and helping us keep our pets healthy!

P.S. forgot to mention that if you search on raw diet on the web, there are a lot of sites that may have recipes. I ran across a number of them while trying to find an article my SIL had read about aflatoxin and hair loss and fertility problems. Never did find the article.


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## savinggrace (Oct 27, 2005)

Here is my post from the natural dog food query...

I mix my own; it is a very simple recipe. 

2 lbs ground meat

2 lbs chopped stew type meat

2 cups cooked BROWN rice (or whole grain oatmeal)

4 tbsp Solid Gold Seameal (supplement)

2 cups cooked vegetables (aviod peas, onions, ect.)

12 or so crushed egg shells, baked for 5-10 min at 300 to make them brittle and powder.

2 cups extras...really whatever is handy! Offal, marrow, cottege cheese, berries, ect.

Mix it up. I put it in individual sandwich baggies, freeze or refrigerate (that depends on how many dogs you are feeding!)

Remember raw food is more efficient than commercial; it is digested sooner and your dog may be hungry more often. It's not a bad thing for dog's stomachs to be empty for a few hours however! I feed twice a day. Sometimes I mix the raw with commercial Hund N Flocken dog food. You don't have to do the rice/oatmeal, I do it for some filler. (meat can be expensive)

Ok some ideas on how to get your hands on affordable, locally raised meat!

Look into local meat packing plants. Tell them you are looking for meat for dog food. Some sell shrink wrapped 'Dog Food' never wanted to ask what's in the stuff...there are some parts that are perfectly edible esp. for dogs, but don't make their way into our cuts.

www.localharvest.org This is an AWESOME site! Look up local farms who raise chicken, sheep, meat goat (sort of ethnic) beef, ect. Many people feed pork, but I hae been told pork is a little tougher on the digestion than other meats for dogs. 
Of course don't discount fish! Smaller fish can be essentially fed whole. 

Bones are good for dogs. Including poultry. I raise poultry, and when processing, sometimes I end up with one that is blemished, ect. and those are chopped into large pieces and given to the dogs. Chicken bones ARE very bad for dogs when COOKED. That's when they splinter dangerously! 

Good luck!


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## savinggrace (Oct 27, 2005)

Tango said:


> Thanks Marvella but I won't feed a store brand at all.
> Sarah, last night I had a couple of oatmeal cookies for dinner and some leftover popcorn for breakfast- my diet is definitely worse than whan my dogs eat  I have a couple of your recipes saved on my desktop computer which isn't here yet. I can do either but the deer meat will be only through hunting season anway. I don't want to get into the tedium of raising rabbits again so I might get some broad-breasted whites to raise for them and butcher an ocassional goat. Of the carbs, which is easier to digest? They have preferred macaroni to rice before, never tried oatmeal... Mary thanks for the link that is a must have book.



Hey, stick with whole grain. Even instant brown rice-which is the most preferable grain for dogs; is better than processed. 

Meat should be 70-90% of your dogs diet. Dogs require far more calcium than you would think! Bone meal, egg shells, marrow bones, ect. are extremely important. Brewer's yeast is also extremely good! 

THE BAD FOR DOGS LIST

Macadamia nuts-very toxic
Avacado-the nut and skin is toxic
fresh/frozen/canned peas-unless dried and re-consititued
Onions
Milk in it's actual form is not so good.

THE AWESOME FOR DOGS LIST

BONES AND BONE MEAL! NEVER COOKED! 
EGGS AND EGG SHELLS! (bake egg shells *not whole eggs) briefly so they crumble when smashed)
LIGHTLY COOKED VEGETABLES AND FRUITS! (yes lightly cook fruits
GARLIC! GARLIC! GARLIC! (no their breath won't smell...dogs metabolize garlic differently than we do)
VARIETY MEATS-LIVER, TRIPE, ECT. 
YOUGERT AND COTTEGE CHEESE
BERRIES! If you feed no other fruit, berries are great! 
FISH! (brain food!)
Apples! (pectin is good for loose stools too)
BROWN RICE/OATMEAL cooked of course!


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## Lawbag (May 10, 2005)

Can't help much with recipes as my dogs are currently on commerical foods (Innova, Wysong canned meat, and Solid Gold) supplemented fresh fruits and veggies. But when my dog with food allergies was on an a test diet, I made his food which consisted of cooked rabbit, cooked potatoes, and sunflower oil for fat. We also added half of a human vitamin (forget the brand right now) and diacalcium phosphate (calcium supplement which can be found in feed stores). We're living in a camper with dinky fridge and freezer at the time so I made only 2-3 days worth at time. If you end up cooking daily for your dogs, get a pressure cooker. While discussing possible long-term homemade diets with Rags' dermatolgists, eggs and fish were recommended as good and cheap protein sources if the dog is not allergic to them. 

There is at least 1 dog nutrition group available on yahoo groups. Also check out these books: Dr.Pitcainr's Complete Guide to Natural Health for Dogs & Cats (has recipes for dog and cat food; some people think they are too heavy on the grains). 
Natural Food Recipes by Carol Boyle -book was written by a former Great Pyrenees breeder and is a little different as it has recipes for people and dogs with the idea that you cook for both you and your dogs at the same time. Then there's my current favorite dog book: The Complete Holistic Dog Book by Jan Allergretti and Katy Sommers, D.V.M. This has a chapter on diet, suggestions on how to create homemade meals, suggested meats, veggies and grains as well as which ones to avoid. HTH


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## cwgrl23 (Feb 19, 2004)

Tango - 

Do a search for the "BARF" diet or "RAW" diet. There are a lot of people feeding Great Danes that do these. I think if you google one of those and maybe throw the words Great Dane in the search, you should come up with some interesting websites.

When I get home, I will look and see if I still have any of the links.

www.barfdiet.com 

Found one link. Just make sure to do your research!

HTH 

Carrie in SD


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## Mastiff (Dec 5, 2004)

We have been feeding BARF for 5+ years... It is a great way to go... We even belong to a BARF co-op and get ~ 350+ lbs of raw food every 3 months...
Dogs love it, they have great coats, and stay healthy... My vet friend is super into raw food diets... Check it out...


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## Lannie (Jan 11, 2004)

...


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## MARYDVM (Jun 7, 2004)

Here are a couple of recipes from Strombeck

Eggs and Macaroni diet
3 eggs, large hard boiled
2c. cooked macaroni
2Tbsp canned sardines in tomato sauce
1/4 tsp salt substitute - potassium chloride
1/10 tsp table salt
4 bonemeal tablets 
1 canine multiple vitamin mineral tablet.

provides 696 kilocalories, 39.1 grams protein, 22,4 grams fat, supports caloric needs for 22 lb. dog for 1 day.

Poultry and Rice diet
1/3 lb. poultry meat (raw weight), cooked
2 cups cooked rice
2Tbsp sardines in tomato sauce
1 Tbsp canola oil
1/4 tsp salt substitute - potassium chloride
1/10 tsp salt
4 bone meal capsules
1 canine multi vitamin and mineral tablet

provides 879 kilocalories, 43.1 grams protein, 37.3 grams fat. Supports caloric needs of a 29 to 30 lb. dog

He also mentions using ground up raw bone instead of bonemeal tablets (remember, these diets are formulated with average non-homesteading owner in mind.) Egg shells can be used for a calcium source, but are completely lacking in the phosphorus that bone naturally has.Also veggies can be added as desired. 

As to cancer rates in animals and humans - since cancer tends to arise from damaged (mutated) DNA, anything that damages the cells over time can eventually cause an increase in cancer. We're getting hit with toxins/ pollutants in air, water, food, etc. in much higher levels than in our past, and after a time the body can't keep up with absorbing and repairing the damage.


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## Tango (Aug 19, 2002)

Thanks everyone. I'm not new to dog food and dog diets. I've been reading and researching since I first got a Great Dane - now deceased- over 12 years ago. This is merely the proverbial straw for me and it comes at a time when I am limited in my options and resources (most of my books and papers are in storage and my desk top isn't even here). I have qualms with a straight BARF diet which can be found on other threads before this forum was established. I feed home butchered raw meat to my dogs once in a while, like on butchering days- but usually parboil as a daily practice. I am rasing beef cattle now and will be raising a steer for them every year. But none of the vets I've used - in three states- are BARF proponents. I think there are probably basic misunderstandings on both sides of th issue that prevent better communication. I respect the choice of those who feed BARF diets to their animals though and I've met vets on line - like Sarah- who feed BARF in combination with other foods.


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## MelissaW (Jun 18, 2003)

Hi Tango! When the recall came out, I dumped the Diamond (even though the Large Breed wasn't part of the recall), and got the Nutro, just like you. They really seem to like the taste, and the doo-doo load is way down, lol! The year we had a zillion white leghorn roosters to butcher, I made up a bunch of homemade food and froze it. It consisted of cooked chicken and chicken liver, brown rice, peas and carrots, scrambled eggs, and a vitamin E and Pet Tab added at the last minute. They did well on it, and boy were those coats shiny!


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## Maura (Jun 6, 2004)

BARF is pretty easy to do. You don't have to worry about feeding your dog or cat a complete balanced diet at every meal. Chicken backs or chicken legs can be bought frozen and can be kept in your five day cooler (I did the summer we were building our house and didn't have a refrigerator). Whole raw eggs are also fed to the dog, they can eat the shells. If you raise chickens those eggs will be the healthiest things you give your dogs.

Dr. Billinghurst's book, Give Your Dog a Bone, is the book I use.


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## Tango (Aug 19, 2002)

Hey Melissa  I found the same thing about their stools with Nutro. Especially the Great Pyr pup. She went form 7 bm's a day to 3. Very nice side benefit  since she is my hungry, hungry hippo.
Maura and everyone. I have found a happy medium for now. Since we've had company and plenty of leftovers this past week my dogs have been getting half people food and half Nutro. I think I can safely continue this regimen including raw meat and bones, fresh eggs, and rice or macaroni plus the supplemtal oil and vitamin/min mix for the time it takes to finish the house. Some days they'll get all fresh food, some days they'll get half Nutro and half left overs. We have an abundance of deer meat right now that will make it easier than I thought. After hunting season we'll probably switch to goat meat and home raised turkeys and continue the other part being careful not to use any dog food with corn, wheat, soy, etc. I'm feeling much better about this and it will help me be healthier too


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## Cheryl in SD (Apr 22, 2005)

I had some old turkey burger that my family did NOT care for, and a package of 4 yo liver. I tried the homemade dog/cat food recipe and the dogs LOVE it, the cats (who are out of food) just turned their noses up. I guess they aren't hungry enough yet.

Cheryl

Recipe -

2 parts ground meat
2 parts ground vegetables
3 parts oatmeal 
water to moisten

keep in separate containers in fridge. Worked like a charm!


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## GoldenMom (Jan 2, 2005)

I tried on the cats, too. They won (or should I say ONE of them won)! My boys would eat anything, and the old girl would finally come around, but the younger girl WOULD NOT switch! It got to the point where her liver values were starting to go up, so I let her win.


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## quiet mountain farmer (Mar 27, 2003)

I have only just now begun to cook my own dog food, because we had a house fire, and can't leave home. I have tons of frozen liver. I'm using liver, rice, dehydrated vegetables, some oatmeal, garlic and among other things - worcestershire sauce, because my dog will eat anything with that, and we have a gallon! 

I found these recipes while searching:


Homemade Diet 

*	1 lb ground meat, browned and drained of fat 
*	1 potato, cooked and mashed 
*	2 c cooked whole grain brown rice 
*	1/2 c cooked oatmeal 
*	1/2 c cooked barley 
*	1/2 c grated raw carrots 
*	1/c c grated raw green veggies (broccoli, green beans..) 
*	2 T olive oil 
*	2 T minced garlic 

Homemade Performance Diet 

*	1 lb ground meat, browned but not drained 
*	4 hard boiled eggs 
*	2 c cooked whole grain brown rice 
*	1 c cooked oatmeal 
*	1 potato, cooked and chopped 
*	1/4 c wheat germ 
*	1/2 grated raw carrots 
*	1/2 grated raw green veggies 
*	3 T olive oil 
*	2 T minced garlic 
*	optional, when serving: cottage cheese, yogurt, vitamins, herbal supplements


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## Peepsqueak (Apr 6, 2005)

All these suggestions are great. Also for homesteaders BARF may even be more practical. Also read up on the Volhard diet too. www.volhard.com

This diet contains grains, however some dogs need it. Many people do not use grains though. If dogs have allergies, etc., I would avoid grains.

I tried Barf, Pitcairn, Volhard, Sue Johnson's version of the raw diet, Billinghurts' and they are all great. I think Pitcairn uses too much grain though....Volhard uses less grains and specific ones that help the dog metabolize their food. It is a great balanced diet if you are concerned about balance. Of course Raw diets supposedly balance thmeselves in time.

Good luck.


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## birdie_poo (May 10, 2002)

I love Nutro and will never use anything different, with the exception of some Avoderm.

Since I started my dogs on Nutro, we have had less waste, they love the taste, it's healthier, and with 2 dogs with severe skin disorders, they no longer have skin problems.

One of the dogs used to scratch himself on the stucco walls and would leave smudges of blood where he'd done it...no more with Nutro.

My grandma used to make a dog food for her poodles. It was ground beef or turkey in a pot of water to which she added 2 packs of frozen mixed veggies. After the meat was cooked through, she would add rice as a filler. She wouldn't drain the water and put it in the fridge for the fat to solidify. Once it was solid, she would scrape or pull it off, then drain the warter off. The dogs loved it, and I remember sneaking bites of it here and there.


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## quiet mountain farmer (Mar 27, 2003)

Pipsqueak - is the rice okay? And would you count some oatmeal as grain? I am just trying for some filler, so I won't have to throw any juice away.


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## birdie_poo (May 10, 2002)

quiet mountain farmer said:


> Pipsqueak - is the rice okay? And would you count some oatmeal as grain? I am just trying for some filler, so I won't have to throw any juice away.


Our dogs had sensitive skin and the rice wasn't a problem.

You can try adding less water, to reduce the waste, or use dehydrated veggies, they will soak up the water.


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## Willowynd (Mar 27, 2005)

I tried home cooked- it was a flop- all my dogs lost weight and condition on it and increasing the amount meant I would have went broke. I switched back to kibble until I compiled enough info on raw. Check out my websites health page, I talk all about it and give my raw diet outlines. Http://willowyndcollies.tripod.com/Health.htm


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## rabbitgal (Feb 12, 2005)

Quick question: isn't corn-based food hard on a dog's digestion anyway, even without aflatoxin? Why are we feeding carnivores grain-based diets anyway?


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## pookshollow (Aug 22, 2005)

My old dog was on Nutro for a while but her coat got greasy and smelly, and she had digestive problems so I switched back to home-cooked. She lived to be 15.

About a year ago, one of my cats developed a very sensitive stomach, every time he ate, it came right back up - he was also on Nutro. Back to home-cooking. 

I have a few recipes that I follow now and then, but when I was cooking for the dog, I just went with 1/3 protein (meat, eggs, cheese), 2/3 grain with veggies. I use brown rice or oatmeal mainly for the grains. If I was cooking up a big batch of food, I'd use the frozen mixed vegetables, otherwise, a bit of leftover whatever, squash, broccoli (she loved broccoli), ripe banana (I don't like them ripe so it helped use them up!).


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