# Horse Nooby



## Chago (Jul 14, 2014)

Ok so I have some more details now on my pastures I plan to make, and had a few questions.

So I have 5 acres and plan to have 2 horses. Now I know I am diving into a hobby with tons of chores. I can totally appreciate that, although I am trying to make it as smart as possible to minimize as much chores as possible. I would rather invest more upfront in order to make my life easier later. One thing to mention the soil where I live drains very very well. It is all gravel with some minimal top soil on top. I am surrounded by gravel quarries if that helps. 

So the 3 paddocks I could fit would actually be smaller then I first expected. Here they are.

North Field 150' x 190'
South Field 120' x 240'
Back Field 135' x 190'

So I do plan to feed hay everyday all year, so these were not meant to be pastures. But I imagine horses will be horses and graze anyways. My thought was they could be moved on a weekly basis year round to give each field a 2 week break. I figured this would minimize mud, flies, cleaning of manure etc. I could harrow it all and mow during the 2 week off break. What are your thoughts?? Will 2 horses left in rain, snow and sun ruin these in 1 week intervals? Each paddock will have its own run in shed.

Do I need 2 paddocks? Do I need 3? Or am I doomed and destined for mud?? If this is true I would like to look at not spending so much money on 3 paddocks fencing and instead make one large paddock in the back ( I can actually fit a full 1.5 acre if I want. And could create a small 40x40 dry area that they can live in all year. I would need to clean poop a lot etc. But then just let them in the one large field when weather and fields allow. But I was not sure if a 40 x 40 is a good living environment? Can I do something like this but with a large dry area? Obvoiulsly the dry area would be a high cost so I would invest more in this one set up rather than the 3. Thoughts?? comments??? Rude Remarks???


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## doc- (Jun 26, 2015)

Where are you located, Chago? Here in the MidWest, with our good soil and copious rainfall, it takes a horse 4 weeks to chew down one acre of pasture, and then it will replenish itself in one week. But in the dry SouthWest, it may take only a couple days for a single horse to gobble up an acre and then 4 weeks to re-grow.

Having a small dry lot (40 x 40 is fine) is nice. You can train them to come in for feedings and water and treats. That makes it easier to catch them when you want to ride or have to give shots, dewormers. etc. If you have a lot of rain, you may want to gravel that area or else it can become a boggy, muddy mess.


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## haypoint (Oct 4, 2006)

I live where the soil has a lot of clay in it. It is a sticky mess in the spring and fall. However, it grows grass like crazy, never drying out in mid-summer.
You have the advantage of rapid drainage, but if the water leaves too soon, the resulting drought will halt grass growth. Warmer climates dry out quicker than my far north climate.

Only a fool would advise you without knowing fertility, climate, soil type, current grass types, etc. Just running around, horses can wipe out grass and any trees they can get to, even when moved off for awhile. 

Most run in sheds are too shallow to be of much good. Horses seek protection from biting flies and direct sunlight. While a horse can get into an 8 by 12 run in, 16 feet deep is, IMHO, necessary. A run in built to open to all three pastures would work, if you had gates to swing around, allowing rotation of fields.

Big round bales of hay or small squares? 40 by 40? It that a corral or a barn?


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## Forcast (Apr 15, 2014)

make sure you have a savings account just for the horse above your own


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## Chago (Jul 14, 2014)

So I am in central ontario. So climate would be similar to northern Michigan. 

Currently I have wild grasses and weeds. So I will be mowing this down and possibly starting a new seed bed. I'm first planning the space out before I start anything. Grass grows like crazy in spring and fall. Summer it grows well too if we have a normal season. But years lkle this one where we had no rain for almost 2 months that's another story. 

I plan on feeding 60b square bales. 

So it sounds like I'm better off making a large dry paddock like even 50 x 50. And let that be there house. And use the field just for exercise and casual grazing. Or make 2 adjoining fields. The third wouldn't be possible to adjoin.


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## haypoint (Oct 4, 2006)

Big round bales would be cheaper, but need tractor to move. Square bales need dry storage and hauled out each day. Best if you had a way to fill hay feeder over the fence so you won't be tramping through the mud and snow carrying a bale. They'll have that paddock down to dirt in no time and if they don't have a good covered shelter, they'll be running wild with horse flies after them.


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## Chago (Jul 14, 2014)

So I do plan to have shelters in each paddock. How do shelters protect from flies ?


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## haypoint (Oct 4, 2006)

Flies don't bite in the darkness of a shed. Make it deep so it will be darker.


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## aoconnor1 (Jun 19, 2014)

I strongly urge you to volunteer at a large stable near you for a few months before getting 2 horses. It is a LOT of work caring for horses, even just 2 of them. Do you have a farrier lined up for trimming every 6-8 weeks? Do you know what a founder or abscess looks like so you can get a vet involved if necessary? Do you have a vet who can either come out on a farm call or that you can haul a horse to for emergencies? What is your feed plan for them during the winter? You need a worming protocol for them to keep them healthy and in good shape, have you spoken to a vet about it? Gosh, there is so much about owning horses that you need hands on experience to learn before you pick a couple up for yourself. I strongly recommend you work with them off your property for a while before getting a couple, they are more work than you may realize. Seeing horses standing in pastures as you drive out in the country might be nice, but the work you don't see going on to maintain those animals is huge. Be prepared, for both your sake as well as the horses you will have.


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## Alder (Aug 18, 2014)

Personally, I'd probably do your two or three paddocks, but put in a decent sized dry lot connected to the barn from which all paddocks attach. It's good for wet weather, feeding hay (can be a mess - especially with horses), and for use in winter months. Nothing is worse than keeping horses in the mud and horses are good at making mud where you never thought it could happen. Also, seems more and more horses are being bred that can't take 24 hour/day turnout on grass. Laminitis and metabolic issues are common.

Think about setting up your gates and pens so that you don't have to lead horses in and out of the barn and between paddocks. That's where a lot of people get hurt - set things up so all you have to do is open and close gates. And make every gate wide enough for the tractor and equipment. Think about making life easy in case you are injured, (ever see all the old horsemen gimping around at an auction?) or you have a farm sitter taking care of your animals while you are gone.


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## Maura (Jun 6, 2004)

I&#8217;d put a roof with large overhang and solid walls but open a foot at the top for ventilation. I&#8217;d have it centered so you could use it regardless of which paddock they are in and have gates into each paddock (keeping two of the gates closed at any given time). Run water to the shed. One paddock may need an alley to get them to the shed, this is since they would only use the alley 1 week in 3.

Don&#8217;t chase them. Train them to a whistle. Whenever you bring a bale of hay out, whistle so they associate the whistle with something good. You won&#8217;t have room, I&#8217;m guessing, to have cross ties, so brush them out in the paddock and train them to stand still where ever and when ever you say &#8220;whoa&#8221; or &#8220;be still&#8221;. You can brush, saddle, halter, etc anywhere. You can train them to hand signals as well.


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## doc- (Jun 26, 2015)

Gee, these last coupla posts are discouraging--I may have to start considering getting rid of my horses. :huh:

I just moved out of a suburban setting where mine were confined in a two stall barn with free access to a dry paddock 50x100. I mucked stalls & picked the paddock each AM, tossed hay from small squares, fed grain and watered. They got 3 more hay feedings and one of grain each day. Total time involved: 45 minutes. Big deal.

Now I'm in a rural setting. I set up two stalls in the barn that lead to a fenced paddock 35 x 60, and that leads to a two acre pasture. They get a round bail in the paddock and free access to the pasture. I can confine them to the paddock if needed. I grain them twice a day: total time involved 15 minutes, most of that the walk from the house to the barn. Good excercise. 

Time sent grooming, handling their feet and riding is therapeutic for all of you. Time well spent.

If you're planning on offering them hay anyways, then pasture size is almost unimportant. They'll develop a routine spending some time at the feeder and some time out nibbling grass.

In Ontario they're gunna need some real shelter from the weather: actual stalls and not just run in sheds. What's your water source and how will you keep it ice-free in winter?

Sure there's the consideration of the farrier every couple months, the vet for yearly routine care and availability for emergencies. Yea, you need to secure a source of hay & grain/feed. Once you have it figured out, it becomes a simple routine.

Have fun with it.


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## haypoint (Oct 4, 2006)

doc- said:


> Gee, these last coupla posts are discouraging--I may have to start considering getting rid of my horses. :huh:
> 
> I just moved out of a suburban setting where mine were confined in a two stall barn with free access to a dry paddock 50x100. I mucked stalls & picked the paddock each AM, tossed hay from small squares, fed grain and watered. They got 3 more hay feedings and one of grain each day. Total time involved: 45 minutes. Big deal.
> 
> ...



If suggesting a long hard look on horse ownership is discouraging, then I&#8217;d suggest you continue thinking about getting rid of your horses.
Feeding horses four times a day might take 45 minutes. But unless you live and are employed next to the barn, it&#8217;s a bit more complicated. How did the bales of hay find their way into the hay mow? How much did this stall barn with water cost? Concrete floor and rubber mats or a bale of wood shavings every few days? Who maintained your fence, trimmed hooves, vaccinated and brushed them? Part of your 12 minutes four times a day? 
At your new place, the existing barn takes care of the need for building a shelter. Good for you. Who fills your water tank?
Does that 800 pound round bale jump into the feeder by itself? How do you protect the hay from getting rained on and molding before it is consumed? How do you clean out the round bale feeder. Do you have them eating out of a hay feeder that lets the hay sit on the ground? Do you even have a hay feeder?

Pasture size isn&#8217;t important if you don&#8217;t understand sand colic. Every horse I&#8217;ve ever seen will eat pasture down to putting green length before spending much time eating hay.

In south or central Ontario, a wind break is enough protection from the cold. As long as they are protected from wind when wet, they&#8217;ll be fine. Having a run in shed, that they&#8217;ll almost never go into during the winter is good to clear your mind. But, IMHO, flies will drive horses crazy if not protected.
Sourcing feed is one thing, building a year&#8217;s worth of storage space is something else. 
Buying sound, trained horses is tricky. Sometimes locating someone to teach you to ride or finding a good farrier are problems that don&#8217;t just work themselves out. Is there a Vet that is willing to see horses in your area?


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## aoconnor1 (Jun 19, 2014)

doc- said:


> Gee, these last coupla posts are discouraging--I may have to start considering getting rid of my horses. :huh:
> 
> I just moved out of a suburban setting where mine were confined in a two stall barn with free access to a dry paddock 50x100. I mucked stalls & picked the paddock each AM, tossed hay from small squares, fed grain and watered. They got 3 more hay feedings and one of grain each day. Total time involved: 45 minutes. Big deal.
> 
> ...


You are already a horse owner with some level of experience being able to keep them at your home. The OP is not an experienced owner, so the information given them is much different than what would be given to you or asked by you.

I think there is nothing at all wrong with encouraging someone to take their time and really understand the work required to keep horses before they go get a couple. They are rather fragile animals medically, and one choke or colic could end a horses life if the owner doesn't know what's happening enough to call for help.


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## doc- (Jun 26, 2015)

On the first day of medical school, the dean welcomed our class with a little speech. He told us that over the next four years we would come to learn that 80% of our patients would get better _no matter what we did to them._

I know plenty of people who just turn their horses out to pasture with the cattle and give them no attention at all for days, weeks and months on end. The horses do quite well.

All the detailed advice we've been dishing out to the OP seemed to me to maybe be a bit overwhelming and discouraging rather than encouraging. If you notice he doesn't seem to be responding to any of our chatter anymore. Kinda reminds me of the guy who starts an argument in a bar and then leaves while everyone else keeps going and it eventually turns into a fist fight. :hobbyhors


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## haypoint (Oct 4, 2006)

doc- said:


> On the first day of medical school, the dean welcomed our class with a little speech. He told us that over the next four years we would come to learn that 80% of our patients would get better _no matter what we did to them._
> 
> I know plenty of people who just turn their horses out to pasture with the cattle and give them no attention at all for days, weeks and months on end. The horses do quite well.
> 
> All the detailed advice we've been dishing out to the OP seemed to me to maybe be a bit overwhelming and discouraging rather than encouraging. If you notice he doesn't seem to be responding to any of our chatter anymore. Kinda reminds me of the guy who starts an argument in a bar and then leaves while everyone else keeps going and it eventually turns into a fist fight. :hobbyhors


Well, apparently you haven't left the bar and I'm still here. I'll assume that the OP is among the numerous others quietly listening to the discussion as it continues. 

That 20% of horses do not recover if left untreated is important to note. 

I suppose, using your figures, that one out of five horses don't recover from being caught in a barbed wire fence. One in five succumb to colic because their water trough was frozen over. 

Anyone that has spent more than a day in a Vet clinic can tell you that improperly cared for horses do not " do quite well".

The uniformed might think their horse's injuries or death was just one of those freak accidents. But an educated horse owner has seen or heard of accidents, mistakes and hazards endured by others and takes the steps to reduce those pitfalls before they lose their horse.

Prior to the valuable recourses like Homesteadingtoday, I watered my horses ,in the winter, from a stream near the barn. One extremely cold day, the creek froze solid. The horses ventured up stream to the spring. A $6000 bred 4 year old mare drowned in 2 feet of water. To me it was a freak accident. To experienced equine veterinarians, draft horses often drown in shallow water. It is the sharing of information and experiences that makes this resource so valuable. To dismiss this resource as immaterial, since things mostly work out without help, is counterproductive.


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## aoconnor1 (Jun 19, 2014)

haypoint said:


> Well, apparently you haven't left the bar and I'm still here. I'll assume that the OP is among the numerous others quietly listening to the discussion as it continues.
> 
> That 20% of horses do not recover if left untreated is important to note.
> 
> ...


Haypoint, I have never heard that about draft horses. I'm so sorry you lost a mare that way. As a draft owner (I have a large Percheron gelding), please help me understand how this can happen so I am aware of what I can prevent! 

Thanks for the info!


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## haypoint (Oct 4, 2006)

aoconnor1 said:


> Haypoint, I have never heard that about draft horses. I'm so sorry you lost a mare that way. As a draft owner (I have a large Percheron gelding), please help me understand how this can happen so I am aware of what I can prevent!
> 
> Thanks for the info!


[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FUt1c_2v0fw[/ame]

[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NKlAWDDv99Q[/ame] last 20 seconds

[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NKlAWDDv99Q[/ame] part 2.

For centuries draft horses have been selected for calm disposition A riding horse caught in barbed wire might struggle to the death, while a Draft may recognize he's caught and stand to be rescued.

I have had drafts step off a snow packed trail into three feet of soft fluffy snow, fall over and lay there until I could unhook the sled of firewod and encourage him to attempt to get up.

I n winter the creek was barely a foot across and a foot deep. 200 yards upstream is a spring. The spring never freezes over and supplies the creek year around. While the area around the spring is frozen solid all winter, an area about 10 feet across stays open. The edge of the spring is an ice shelf, extending over the water by a foot or two. The spring is about two feet deep. Seems safe enough for big mature horses to be around. 

Apparently, as this mare was getting a drink, she either stepped into the shallow water or slid. Her head pushed forward, under the ice shelf. With her front feet in shallow water and her rears up on the icy area around the spring, she was unable to back up. To get up, horses need to throw their head. But her head was under the narrow edge of ice. Instead of a frantic effort to free herself, she apparently laid down and waited for me to help. I found her the next morning.

The stud fee for Blackhome Duke was $1000, plus the Vet bills to get her in foal. She was 120 days from foaling. She was born on this farm, I raised her from a colt, broke her to drive and showed her at several County Fairs.

The youtube videos I posted show how drafts lay still in times of danger.


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## aoconnor1 (Jun 19, 2014)

I have seen that video, it was horrifying, but I was so glad all was well in the end.

I'm so very sorry for your loss. How sad, they really are so trusting that we can get them out of anything. I have thankfully not had a saddle horse struggle too much in a bad situation when I am there, but when I'm not right on hand, I don't know how it would go. 

Thank you for explaining, I hadn't really thought for it that much. My Percheron is very quiet and calm, I imagine he might do the same that your mare did. I know now to keep a closer eye on him should he get into a bad situation.


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## Chago (Jul 14, 2014)

Sorry folks I am around and always was. I have been spending time on farms and reading. If you look at my original picture of my land. I live next door to a boarding facility. So have a wealth of knowledge there as well. Although I came on here to get more opinions. Because in other hobbies I have learned listening to one "expert" is not always the best course of action.

I am still very motivated to bring my dream to a reality. I am currently in the budgeting phase. Our plan is to build everything in spring. By everything I mean fences, hay storage, run ins etc. I don't plan on getting my first horse until Spring of 18. I am not a fly by night, I don't do anything unless I do it 100%. As a matter of fact it drives people around me crazy. But when I want something, I get it! and I do it with 100% commitment. Hence the planning years in advance. 

I plan on feeding the horses hay. My neighbor has agreed to handle my hay storage and feeding. They have a large tractor and can place 1 large round bale as needed. The horses can self feed. With only 2 horses this should last a few weeks. I plan to build a roof over the feeder, due to my hay hanging around a long time I want to be able to keep dry. The tractor forks will easily be able to push the hay in under the roof. 


Now I still haven't decided on how many paddocks. The neighbour is suggesting if I simply fence in my back field which we can make bigger then we originally thought. 300' x 150' is possible. Horses are being fed hay so grazing amounts are not a concern. Although I don't want a mud pit. That being said my soil is pure gravel and really I don't see standing water, 2 minutes after a rain storm. 

Thoughts on only using one paddock?


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## haypoint (Oct 4, 2006)

Here is a simple hay feeder. The boards lift out and a round bale goes in and the boards slide back in.


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## Chago (Jul 14, 2014)

That looks perfect.


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## Jollyhomestead (Sep 23, 2016)

Chago said:


> Sorry folks I am around and always was. I have been spending time on farms and reading. If you look at my original picture of my land. I live next door to a boarding facility. So have a wealth of knowledge there as well. Although I came on here to get more opinions. Because in other hobbies I have learned listening to one "expert" is not always the best course of action.
> 
> I am still very motivated to bring my dream to a reality. I am currently in the budgeting phase. Our plan is to build everything in spring. By everything I mean fences, hay storage, run ins etc. I don't plan on getting my first horse until Spring of 18. I am not a fly by night, I don't do anything unless I do it 100%. As a matter of fact it drives people around me crazy. But when I want something, I get it! and I do it with 100% commitment. Hence the planning years in advance.
> 
> ...


We have two paddocks on our property and I highly recommend it. The three horses that we own plus the two goats all stay together in one paddock. However, having the second paddock allows us to rotate so the grass can replenish. We have temporarily boarded an additional horse at times and then the second paddock is used to keep the new horse separated. The social dynamics of horses can be very interesting! Hence the term "horse play" 

Kathie
www.jollyhomesteading.com


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