# I'm an Anti-Vaxer and Worse



## MoonRiver (Sep 2, 2007)

I am a member of a heart disease forum and there is a thread on Covid-19. I normally stay out of it, but for some reason, I decided to read it tonight. Needless to say, I quickly became a persona non grata. 

I posted concerns I had about the vaccines and that if I had it to do over again, I didn't think I would get vaccinated. I was quickly labeled an anti-vaxer, right-wing, Trump supporter, spreader of disinformation, and one person even said I should be banned from the site. All their arguments seemed to be based on what someone in the government has said, not on scientific studies or actual reports from doctors working in the field. They like to quote university professors too.

As Rush used to say, I'm just a Lovable Little Fuzzball.

The vaccine has become God to some people. It is not to be discussed or questioned. It is perfection. Everyone bow down to Fauci and the mRNA vaccines.

With everything that is going on - vaccines, BLM, woke, CRT, etc, I just noticed they all have one thing in common. They all must be accepted as fact and discussion and debate are not allowed. There can be no intellectual curiosity.


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## Alice In TX/MO (May 10, 2002)

Run away from that group. Run very fast.


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## GTX63 (Dec 13, 2016)

A good glass of whiskey and ice and the ability to think abstractly for about an hour and you will have them arguing with their spouses and kicking their dog before the evening is done.


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## Hiro (Feb 14, 2016)

MoonRiver said:


> There can be no intellectual curiosity.


When you recognize that as a flag, it becomes much simpler to identify the real problems. When you get one step further to ask why does this otherwise rational person try to shame/stop your curiosity is the next step. I am not certain of the next step, but I have some ideas that need fleshing out......


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## MoonRiver (Sep 2, 2007)

Hiro said:


> When you recognize that as a flag, it becomes much simpler to identify the real problems. When you get one step further to ask why does this otherwise rational person try to shame/stop your curiosity is the next step. I am not certain of the next step, but I have some ideas that need fleshing out......


Something I have wondered about is why are there so few intellectuals on the conservative side? I don't mean to make this political, just curious as to why conservative intellectuals are looked at as oddities. Maybe it's that conservatives don't hang around universities and earn PhDs, but tend more toward business and the physical sciences where a Ph.D. is not necessary.


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## Wolf mom (Mar 8, 2005)

MoonRiver said:


> Something I have wondered about is why are there so few intellectuals on the conservative side? I don't mean to make this political, just curious as to why conservative intellectuals are looked at as oddities. Maybe it's that conservatives don't hang around universities and earn PhDs, but tend more toward business and the physical sciences where a Ph.D. is not necessary.


I don't think there are fewer "conservative intellectuals". I believe you are correct about liberal "intellectuals" receiving PhD's and end up in universities. After all, that's where they can be looked up to while corrupting young minds. I also believe that intellectually conservative people don't speak up. They realize the futility of conversing with people who redefine reality.


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## MoonRiver (Sep 2, 2007)

Wolf mom said:


> I don't think there are fewer "conservative intellectuals". I believe you are correct about liberal "intellectuals" receiving PhD's and end up in universities. After all, that's where they can be looked up to while corrupting young minds. I also believe that intellectually conservative people don't speak up. They realize the futility of conversing with people who redefine reality.


Name 5.


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## Hiro (Feb 14, 2016)

MoonRiver said:


> Something I have wondered about is why are there so few intellectuals on the conservative side? I don't mean to make this political, just curious as to why conservative intellectuals are looked at as oddities. Maybe it's that conservatives don't hang around universities and earn PhDs, but tend more toward business and the physical sciences where a Ph.D. is not necessary.


I suppose that observation depends on who you consider an intellectual and who you consider a conservative.


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## MoonRiver (Sep 2, 2007)

Hiro said:


> I suppose that observation depends on who you consider an intellectual and who you consider a conservative.


Someone with the intellectual ability and knowledge of a Jordan Peterson.


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## Hiro (Feb 14, 2016)

MoonRiver said:


> Someone with the intellectual ability and knowledge of a Jordan Peterson.


I have a great deal of respect for Jordan. But, he has a gift of communication that is quite effective and I don't disagree with most of what he says or writes Continue your search for knowledge and those that speak the truth. And recognize those that fear the search for knowledge and realize that they likely don't have your best interests as their primary motivation.


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## 101pigs (Sep 18, 2018)

MoonRiver said:


> I am a member of a heart disease forum and there is a thread on Covid-19. I normally stay out of it, but for some reason, I decided to read it tonight. Needless to say, I quickly became a persona non grata.
> 
> I posted concerns I had about the vaccines and that if I had it to do over again, I didn't think I would get vaccinated. I was quickly labeled an anti-vaxer, right-wing, Trump supporter, spreader of disinformation, and one person even said I should be banned from the site. All their arguments seemed to be based on what someone in the government has said, not on scientific studies or actual reports from doctors working in the field. They like to quote university professors too.
> 
> ...


A few of my friends was not going to get the shot until two of our friends age 45-48 got the virus and passed away. I have had 5 Heart operations and was not going to get the shot. However i did get the virus and was a bit sick for 4 days. The health dept. told me to go ahead and get the shot in 30 days. I did not have any side effects from the shot. I plan on getting the next shot for the new virus at health dept. in a few weeks.


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## MoonRiver (Sep 2, 2007)

Hiro said:


> I have a great deal of respect for Jordan. But, he has a gift of communication that is quite effective and I don't disagree with most of what he says or writes Continue your search for knowledge and those that speak the truth. And recognize those that fear the search for knowledge and realize that they likely don't have your best interests as their primary motivation.


What I'm getting at is politics has become very superficial and based on little more than slogans. We see it in things as simple as getting vaccinated or not. In many ways, our Founding Fathers were better educated than today's politicians, at least in terms of having a coherent philosophy for governing.

I am using the word politics, but I mean it in the sense of understanding and addressing real problems with the best solutions as demonstrated by studies or pilot projects. This is across society and culture and is not limited to just the government.


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## MoonRiver (Sep 2, 2007)

101pigs said:


> A few of my friends was not going to get the shot until two of our friends age 45-48 got the virus and passed away. I have had 5 Heart operations and was not going to get the shot. However i did get the virus and was a bit sick for 4 days. The health dept. told me to go ahead and get the shot in 30 days. I did not have any side effects from the shot. I plan on getting the next shot for the new virus at health dept. in a few weeks.


It can be a difficult decision. I got mine because of my age, weight, and artificial aortic valve. I got the J&J because I thought it might be safer than the mRNA vaccines and only required 1 shot.

In your case, I still don't understand why they are telling people who have already had Covid to get vaccinated. I don't believe there are any studies showing it is necessary or beneficial. I was reading today that they know that natural antibodies are protective for at least 10 months.


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## Alice In TX/MO (May 10, 2002)

I wonder if the poster questioning the existence of conservative intellectuals meant members of the supposedly conservative party.

Any true intellectual would run like their hair is on fire from EITHER party.


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## Alice In TX/MO (May 10, 2002)

Interesting article that addresses the question.









How to Identify Today's Conservative Thinkers - Intercollegiate Studies Institute


These 54 thinkers may stand outside the stereotypes, but conservatives need their wisdom more than ever.




isi.org


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## wr (Aug 10, 2003)

The whole Covid experience seems to have brought out the absolute worst in people.

Long gone are the days when anyone respects the thoughts or opinions that don’t mirror their own.


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## doc- (Jun 26, 2015)

MoonRiver said:


> Something I have wondered about is why are there so few intellectuals on the conservative side?


An intellectual is somone who can listen to The William Tell Overture and NOT think of The Lone Ranger....

First, define "conservative."...In these dicussions, it should refer to somone who wants to save (ie- conserve) The Constitution. ...But too often we use it to describe the religious fanatics and of course, religion involves belief thru faith alone, not evidence..Ever notice how conservatives want the govt out of their lives--except when it comes to our bedrooms?
.
"Inetellectuals" tends to describe those highly formally educated, and therefore, should be relying on evidence based beliefs..Unfortunately, many of them, even tho highly educated, have resorted to beliefs in things like GW, socialism, etc...things that have a preponderance of emprical evidence against them, but ignored by so many "intellectuals." 

The social pressure is "to go along to get along." Intellectuals (really "academics") need to rely on the university system for their livelihood. ("Those that can, do. Those that can't, teach.") That sytem had an equal chance of becoming liberal or conservative. It became liberal. The die is cast.



MoonRiver said:


> .... Jordan Peterson.


??? Where does he tend bar?


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## MoonRiver (Sep 2, 2007)

Alice In TX/MO said:


> Interesting article that addresses the question.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I only recognize 1 name. Others I would include are Heather Mac Donald, Ben Shapiro, and Douglas Murray.


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## MoonRiver (Sep 2, 2007)

Alice In TX/MO said:


> I wonder if the poster questioning the existence of conservative intellectuals meant members of the supposedly conservative party.
> 
> Any true intellectual would run like their hair is on fire from EITHER party.


Getting back to my op, what got me on this track of intellectualism is the many liberal intellectuals who now find themselves aligned with and supported by conservatives when it comes to government policy on Covid-19 and vaccines. There is a recent video on youtube of Bret Weinstein with Tucker Carlson. Bret is a well-known liberal and former professor at Evergreen State College. When he was forced to leave Evergreen, he said he received hundreds of messages from Conservatives supporting his stand. Another is Dr. Pierre Kory with the FLCCC. He is a liberal, yet when he was asked by Ron Johnson to address his committee, all the Democrat senators boycotted his presentation, and some engaged in trying to destroy his reputation. Youtube keeps censoring the FLCCC presentations. He says he has to go on conservative media to have any means of communication and they have been very fair with him.

There is story after story like this. People who have been unquestioning liberals all their lives suddenly find that conservatives are not the monsters the media has painted them to be. What I find interesting is several of these liberals now define themselves as Classical Liberals, which is also how many conservatives define themselves. Classical Liberalism goes back to the Enlightenment and in the US was exemplified by Jefferson and Madison.

I agree any intellectual should run from either party, but couldn't classical liberals create a solutions-based party or at least reinvigorate the classical liberal philosophy?


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

MoonRiver said:


> I only recognize 1 name. Others I would include are Heather Mac Donald, Ben Shapiro, and Douglas Murray.


Thomas Sowell. Victor Davis Hanson.

They are there


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## GTX63 (Dec 13, 2016)

MoonRiver said:


> I agree any intellectual should run from either party, but couldn't classical liberals create a solutions-based party or at least reinvigorate the classical liberal philosophy?


The company store sells two kinds of bread, pickle loaf and rye. If you want wheat or white you make your own. They won't sell it and they are the only store in town. There are not enough people willing to shop outside of the store and money is company script.


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## GTX63 (Dec 13, 2016)

HDRider said:


> Thomas Sowell. Victor Davis Hanson.
> 
> They are there


Thomas Sowell, while an excellent source, is dead.


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## MoonRiver (Sep 2, 2007)

GTX63 said:


> The company store sells two kinds of bread, pickle loaf and rye. If you want wheat or white you make your own. They won't sell it and they are the only store in town. There are not enough people willing to shop outside of the store and money is company script.


Until someone comes along and says I am already baking white and wheat bread for my family. I could make a few more loaves and sell them. And maybe I'll try making a better pickle loaf and rye than the company store sells. If that works out I might add pies and cakes I can sell.

Now we have a more inclusive baker providing a better solution for her neighbors.


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## GTX63 (Dec 13, 2016)

MoonRiver said:


> Someone with the intellectual ability and knowledge of a Jordan Peterson.


Jordan is an open door conversationalist. He will listen to an exchange and give the other person an acknowledgment of understanding.
A predetermined set of thoughts and ideals without a full grasp of the subject is what you ran headlong into.
Talking points are the earbuds of debate. You cannot carry on an intelligent conversation with someone who can only half hear what you are saying and have a piped in stream of consciousness.
That would be the closed door conversationalist.


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## MoonRiver (Sep 2, 2007)

GTX63 said:


> Thomas Sowell, while an excellent source, is dead.


Boy, is he going to be surprised when he gets up this morning?


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## GTX63 (Dec 13, 2016)

MoonRiver said:


> Until someone comes along and says I am already baking white and wheat bread for my family. I could make a few more loaves and sell them. And maybe I'll try making a better pickle loaf and rye than the company store sells. If that works out I might add pies and cakes I can sell.
> 
> Now we have a more inclusive baker providing a better solution for her neighbors.


In the book version I agree with you.
That store just dropped the price of their bread 10 cents below your cost.
If you continue you will be absorbed.
Like social media, the government owns the parties and the parties own the government. You cannot win at a game in which the rules are fluid and you have no control of.
One has a better chance of being Elon and creating a new car than a new party, and Elon needed a hand to feed him.


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## GTX63 (Dec 13, 2016)

MoonRiver said:


> Boy, is he going to be surprised when he gets up this morning?


I'll offer him my apologies. He wasn't looking good.


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

No conservative would thrive in today's university system. They would barely survive.

You hear them more because the left is more vocal, and it is their nature to organize.

When you consider lending credibility to the Left, ask yourself why they all support a governmental system that has failed every time it has been tried. That one fact should discredit any thought they put forward.


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## GTX63 (Dec 13, 2016)

HDRider said:


> ask yourself why they all support a governmental system that has failed


That is an absolute and would be incorrect.
Just as there are members here who disagree with you on most everything simply because it was you that posted it, there are those who tend to live as contrarians rather than for what they truly believe in.
Listen to enough of them on tv and you will see that they don't have any real solutions, they only know what they hate.


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## MoonRiver (Sep 2, 2007)

HDRider said:


> No conservative would thrive in today's university system. They would barely survive.
> 
> You hear them more because the left is more vocal, and it is their nature to organize.
> 
> When you consider lending credibility to the Left, ask yourself why they all support a governmental system that has failed every time it has been tried. That one fact should discredit any thought they put forward.


There are many colleges and universities where a conservative will do just fine. The problem is those are not the universities where the battle is taking place.

There is a valid liberal point of view just as there is a valid conservative point of view. The problem is most liberals and most conservatives do not have any philosophical grounding and end up relying on slogans masquerading as philosophical principles.


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

MoonRiver said:


> There are many colleges and universities where a conservative will do just fine.


Name five prominent conservatives thriving in today's major universities. ECU or Wake Tech do not count.


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## MoonRiver (Sep 2, 2007)

HDRider said:


> Name five prominent conservatives thriving in today's major universities. ECU or Wake Tech do not count.


I said there were universities where a conservative could do well. I think you will find much more than 5 conservative scholars on the faculties of these colleges.

Liberty University
Hillsdale College
College of the Ozarks
Brigham Young University
Regent University
Grove City College
The Kings College
Harding University
Colorado Christian University
Patrick Henry College
Thomas Aquinas College
Texas A&M
Pepperdine
Oral Roberts University
Campbell University


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## no really (Aug 7, 2013)

MoonRiver said:


> I said there were universities where a conservative could do well. I think you will find much more than 5 conservative scholars on the faculties of these colleges.
> 
> Liberty University
> Hillsdale College
> ...


Interesting but many of those might be problematic if you're not of a certain religious faith and might not have the degree path needed.


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## MoonRiver (Sep 2, 2007)

no really said:


> Interesting but many of those might be problematic if you're not of a certain religious faith and might not have the degree path needed.


Political leaning is not that big an issue at many state colleges and universities as long as you exclude the east and west coasts, and parts of the upper midwest.


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## no really (Aug 7, 2013)

MoonRiver said:


> Political leaning is not that big an issue at many state colleges and universities as long as you exclude the east and west coasts, and parts of the upper midwest.


I've spent more time in college than I wanted too, LOL. IMHO most have issues with categorizing by political leanings and race. I had intended to continue my education in a few years but have decided that it is not a good choice in the present climate.


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## GTX63 (Dec 13, 2016)

MoonRiver said:


> Political leaning is not that big an issue at many state colleges and universities as long as you exclude the east and west coasts, and parts of the upper midwest.


Our daughter went to a smaller college/tech institute in the midwest about a dozen years ago.
There were some real nuts drawing paychecks there. She was well grounded and survived.
Our oldest son attends an SEC University. Being "woke" is almost assumed, but then there are so many imports from both coasts. The instructers vary greatly.
Our youngest son attends a small community college out of state.
I sometimes think he gets more of an education (in ignorance) listening to the enlightened fellow classmates in the lunchroom and hallways. He has one biology professor who is a Christian and conservative. My son says it is like walking into a room full of oxygen after being outside on the moon all day.


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## Alice In TX/MO (May 10, 2002)

Constitutional Realists.


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## MoonRiver (Sep 2, 2007)

Alice In TX/MO said:


> Run away from that group. Run very fast.


It's strange how when it comes to heart surgery or which valve to choose, they are rational and willing to discuss options. There are sometimes disagreements, but nothing like the way I was treated in the Covid thread. It very well could be that people who share my concerns realized the best approach was to stay out of it and say nothing.


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## GTX63 (Dec 13, 2016)

It isn't always political. I'm currently following a thread on treating a copperhead snake bite. One EMT says to apply a tourniquet above the bite and another health clinic employee says no, just ice.
Then the old timers pitch in with remedies such as drinking grease, raw eggs, applying coal oil and onion juice.
No accusations of being a Democrat or a Bigot yet but they are off to the races.


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## boatswain2PA (Feb 13, 2020)

MoonRiver said:


> he vaccine has become God to some people. It is not to be discussed or questioned. It is perfection.


The GOVERNMENT has become God to some people. IT is not to be discussed or questioned. It is perfection.



MoonRiver said:


> With everything that is going on - vaccines, BLM, woke, CRT, etc, I just noticed they all have one thing in common. They all must be accepted as fact and discussion and debate are not allowed. There can be no intellectual curiosity.


Add global warming, modern monetary theory, etc.



MoonRiver said:


> Name 5.


Condi Rice, Ben Carson, Thomas Sowell, Art Laffer, Bill Kristol, William Barr, Clarence Thomas, Ted Cruz....from the top of my head. 




MoonRiver said:


> Until someone comes along and says I am already baking white and wheat bread for my family. I could make a few more loaves and sell them. And maybe I'll try making a better pickle loaf and rye than the company store sells. If that works out I might add pies and cakes I can sell.
> 
> Now we have a more inclusive baker providing a better solution for her neighbors.


They are out there. The National Review is a great source for full context reading of issues of today from conservative but not rabidly-right-wing positions. I even got an email yesterday about a site called Mammoth Nation that touted itself as a conservative online marketplace (have not checked it out yet).


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## MoonRiver (Sep 2, 2007)

boatswain2PA said:


> Condi Rice, Ben Carson, Thomas Sowell, Art Laffer, Bill Kristol, William Barr, Clarence Thomas, Ted Cruz....from the top of my head.


Do you really think 70, 80, and a 90-year-old are the future of conservatism?


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## no really (Aug 7, 2013)

MoonRiver said:


> Do you really think 70, 80, and a 90-year-old are the future of conservatism?


Who is the future of liberalism?


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## no really (Aug 7, 2013)

Here are some younger conservatives worth watching.









Newsmax's 30 Most Influential Republicans Under 30


President Ronald Reagan once said, “The future does not belong to the fainthearted; it belongs to the brave.” In that spirit, Newsmax has compiled a list of the brightest and bravest in the Grand Old Party under the age of 30.




www.newsmax.com





*1. Tomi Lahren* — A newcomer to this annual list, Lahren, 24, shot to the top this year with her booming social media presence. The “Tomi” show on TheBlaze TV has taken Facebook — and the world — by storm. In fact, she proved so popular in 2016 that Donald Trump’s campaign tapped her to help boost the candidate’s social media profile. But it was her Final Thoughts segment aimed at Colin Kaepernick’s national anthem protest that really launched her into the stratosphere. On Lahren’s official Facebook page, which has nearly 4 million page likes, the Kaepernick post alone collected 135,000 comments, 718,000 likes, 1.5 million shares, and 66 million views.
*2. Elliott Echols *— As the director of the Republican Leadership Initiative in Washington, D.C., Echols mobilized the organization to train political field staffers and organizers for the 2016 election. The 26-year-old activist spent most of the election traveling to various battleground states to focus the Initiative’s efforts in what would become an upset victory in the presidential race. Prior to his current role with the Republican National Convention, Echols was the national youth director for the RNC, a position that was geared toward engaging both young voters and College Republican groups.
*3. Hadley Heath Manning* — A senior policy analyst and director of health policy at the Independent Women's Forum, Manning, 28, is frequently invited to comment on issues like healthcare, entitlements, and economic policy for print, digital, radio, and television media. The Republican National Convention called her a “Rising Star” in 2015, and, this year, the Steamboat Institute named her its 2017 Tony Blankley Chair for Public Policy and American Exceptionalism.
*4. Niraj Antani *— In 2014, a year after graduating college, Antani won elected office to the represent the 42nd District in the Ohio House of Representatives. In 2016, the 25-year-old Republican incumbent won re-election over his Democratic challenger by 26 points. Prior to his budding legislative career, Antani served as the communications director for The Ohio State University College Republicans during the 2012 presidential election and as chair of Young Americans for Romney in Ohio.

*5. Alison Howard *— As the director of Alliance Relations at Alliance Defending Freedom, Howard, 28, is on the front lines in D.C. fighting to preserve religious freedom, the sanctity of marriage, and the lives of unborn children. Before joining ADF, she served as the communications director for the Concerned Women for America, the “largest public policy women’s organization” in the U.S.
*6. Ryan Fournier* — Currently enrolled at Campbell University and majoring in political science, Fournier, 21, gained widespread recognition as the founder and national chairman of Students for Trump, a social media phenomenon that helped engage millennials in support of the eventual president-elect.
*7. Aundré Bumgardner* — At the age of 20, Bumgardner was elected to represent the 41st District in the Connecticut House of Representatives in 2014, the youngest person ever to win such a bid in the state’s General Assembly. His campaign ran on themes of lowering taxes, improving transportation, pushing for townships to balance their budgets, and shoring up the economy overall. Bumgardner served on the Finance, Revenue and Bonding, Education, and Transportation committees while in office.
*8. Erin Stewart* — The mayor of New Britain, Connecticut, Erin Stewart was re-elected to a second term in 2015 by a convincing margin, championing a leadership that is bipartisan in a largely Democratic state. The 29-year-old’s executive career began in landmark fashion when she became the youngest mayor in the city’s history, the second woman to hold the office, and now the first to be re-elected in New Britain. Her name is already being whispered around the state in connection to upcoming elections for higher offices currently occupied by Democrats.
*9. Saira Blair *— She was the youngest person elected to either state or federal office in 2014, winning in the first election in which she was eligible to vote. Her West Virginia House of Delegates campaign focused on lowering her state's income tax to “below 6 percent,” coupled with creating a “business-friendly environment that will stimulate job growth.” Blair was re-elected to a second term while juggling the demands of college.
*10. Alex Smith* — She was elected national chair of the College Republican National Committee while completing her J.D. at Seton Hall University School of Law. Smith is also a distinguished graduate of The Catholic University of America. She has appeared on Fox News Channel, MSNBC, and CNN on programs such as “The O’Reilly Factor,” “The Kelly File,” “Your World With Neil Cavuto,” and “The Rundown with Jose Diaz-Balart,” as well as in print and digital media in The Wall Street Journal and Politico.
*11. Drew Christensen* — Minnesota state Rep. Drew Christensen represents District 56A. He was elected to office in 2014 and ran on education and healthcare reform while pushing to trim the debt of the state government. Christensen, 23, serves on the Aging and Long-Term Care Policy, Education Finance, Education Innovation Policy, and Higher Education Policy and Finance Committees.
*12. Anthony “AJ” Edgecomb* — The youngest member of the Maine House of Representatives, he represents the 148th District. The 21-year-old currently serves on the Agriculture, Conservation, and Forestry, and the Engrossed Bill committees while attending the University of Maine at Presque Isle where he’s majoring in physical education.
*13. Kayla Kessinger *— Kayla Kessinger, 24, represents the 32nd District of West Virginia and was first elected to office in 2014. She won re-election this year and serves on the Energy, Government Organization, Veterans Affairs and Homeland Security, and Small Business Entrepreneurship and Economic Development committees.
*14. Chelsi H. Bennett* — Another “rising star” in the GOP, 28-year-old Bennett is a successful lawyer, entrepreneur, political consultant, and pastor’s wife — whew. She has served as an elected official, a motivational speaker, and senior policy adviser, to name a few of her many accomplishments.
*15. Steven Crowder *— Steven Crowder, 29, is a talk show host who provides insightful nuance on the many issues coursing through the political arena today. He is tactful, entertaining, and, above all, right. Whether it be engaging Bernie Sanders supporters or lambasting the ludicrous claims of the Left, Crowder never shies away and always has a smile on his face. Both a first-rate commentator and comedian, he continues to bring in followers by the hundreds of thousands with his “Louder with Crowder” podcasts and videos.
*Important: The Top 4 Signs That You're Already Prediabetic*
*16. Ashe Schow* — At 28, she is the senior political columnist for the New York Observer and a Watchdog.org reporter covering higher education. In 2016, the Independent Women’s Forum, Families Advocating for Campus Equality, and Stop Abusive and Violent Environments presented Schow with a “Champion of Justice” award in recognition of her hard-hitting reporting on gender politics and free speech issues. Previously, she made a name for herself as a commentary writer for the Washington Examiner and an editor and writer for The Heritage Foundation.
*17. Elly Maye* — She is a YouTube star who is most famous for her fun, informative video "Top 10 Reasons I’m Not a Democrat," which has been watched nearly a half-million times on her channel. Maye, 24, is a writer and video contributor to conservative heroes Dinesh D’Souza and Wayne Dupree. She is also a frequent guest on conservative radio and online streaming shows.
*18. Jimmy Sengenberger*— A prolific talk show host and commentator, Sengenberger, 26, has been penetrating the radio waves throughout Denver since 2008. A rising leader in Colorado politics, Sengenberger is also the president of the Liberty Day Institute, a nonpartisan nonprofit that works with educators and communities to expand literacy and understanding of the Constitution.
*19. Katie Pavlich* — The 28-year-old journalist is an editor for Townhall.com and a former contributing editor to Townhall Magazine. Her first book, “Fast and Furious: Barack Obama’s Bloodiest Scandal and Its Shameless Cover-Up,” made The New York Times Best Seller list for nonfiction. Her most recent book, “Assault and Flattery: The Truth About the Left and Their War on Women,” hit bookshelves in 2014, and she was honored the same year as “Woman of the Year” by the Clare Boothe Luce Policy Institute. Pavlich provides her insight frequently on Fox News and never ceases to be on target.
*20. Adi Sathi* — This 26-year-old Michigander is the vice chair of coalitions within his state’s GOP, one of the youngest members of the convention’s leadership. In addition, Sathi is an Asian Pacific American Institute for Congressional Studies legislative fellow in the office of Utah Sen. Orrin Hatch, the Senate president pro tempore and chairman of the Senate Finance Committee.
*21. Kierstin Koppel* — She is the founder and president of Galt Solutions, a boutique political consulting company in Miami, Florida. Prior to starting her firm, Koppel, 27, worked as the national youth director for the presidential campaign of former Florida Gov. Jeb Bush. Koppel is also involved with Generation Opportunity.
*22. “Millennial” Millie Weaver* — The 25-year-old former model has made a name for herself as a political activist, reporter, and satirist. Weaver is most known for her contributions to Infowars.com and the videos on her YouTube channel, which has attracted more than 50,000 subscribers since she created it a little more than a year ago.
*23. Sterling Beard* — The Dartmouth graduate is currently the editor-in-chief at Campus Reform, a conservative spotlight on the news and events happening at America’s universities. Beard, 27, has recently earned such accolades as “rising star in journalism” by the Intercollegiate Studies Institute for his recent work with the Heritage Foundation in 2015.
*24. Kristin Tate* — The 25-year-old political columnist appears frequently on TV programs across the political spectrum: Fox News, Fox Business Network, PBS, CNN, and Newsmax TV. Tate’s writing has been featured in the Washington Examiner, National Review, The Hill, The Washington Times, and The Daily Caller. Her new book, “Government Gone Wild: How D.C. Politicians Are Taking You for a Ride — and What You Can Do About It,” will be released in paperback this spring, and copies will surely continue to fly off the shelves.
*25. Grant Strobl *— Ascending to national chairman of Young Americans for Freedom, Strobl has been heavily involved with conservative campus activism for more than five years, beginning in high school. The 21-year-old University of Michigan student has written for the YAF’s The New Guard newsletter, Red Alert Politics, The Detroit News, and Fox News’ Copy That newsletter.
*26. Justin Haskins* — At 29, Haskins is the executive editor at the Heartland Institute, a free-market think tank. Also, he recently created the New Revere Daily Press, a news start-up that primarily collects but also produces conservative and libertarian content and commentary, while providing nuance as well.
*27. Gus Portela* — The 27-year-old is the national executive director for the College Republican National Committee. He worked on Rick Santorum’s presidential campaign in 2012. He is one of the youngest influential Hispanic Republicans to come to the forefront of GOP activism in recent history, and will continue to help expand the big tent of the party.
*28.Hope Hicks* — This 28-year-old is a relative newcomer to politics, and her career in it has been both surprising and serendipitous. Hicks, a public relations wunderkind, was discovered by Donald Trump while doing some work with Ivanka Trump's fashion line. When the eventual president-elect began his presidential campaign, Trump immediately tasked Hicks with the job of press secretary, seemingly on the fly. Hicks grew in the role and then became the spokeswoman for Trump's transition team. After the inauguration, Hicks will ascend to the role of White House director of strategic communications in the Trump administration.
*29. Matt Hanrahan* — As the campaign director for Dan Carter, the Republican challenger to longtime incumbent Democratic Sen. Richard Blumenthal in Connecticut, 21-year-old Hanrahan ran a campaign that had a higher turnout among Republican voters in more than four election cycles. Hanrahan was the former chairman of the College Republicans at The Catholic University of America and the vice-chairman of D.C. Federation of College Republicans.
*30. Quaterrius “Quay” Manuel* — This Georgia teen became an overnight YouTube sensation when footage captured him engaging in a public debate with a Black Lives Matter supporter who was protesting Donald Trump. The YouTube video accrued millions of views across social media — and several death threats directed at him in response to his arguments. Manuel, 16, who proclaims to be a “conservative Christian Republican” on Twitter, has amassed nearly 25,000 followers on the social media platform since the video went viral. The undeterred teenager hopes to run for public office in the future.


----------



## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

GTX63 said:


> Thomas Sowell, while an excellent source, is dead.


You are thinking of Walter Williams. TS is alive and well


----------



## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

MoonRiver said:


> I said there were universities where a conservative could do well. I think you will find much more than 5 conservative scholars on the faculties of these colleges.
> 
> Liberty University
> Hillsdale College
> ...


Some of those I might argue, but too many are private, and I am not sure any would be considered comparable to the viper's nest of the Ivy League

Go ahead if you want to believe universities are teeming with conservative ideology. .


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## MoonRiver (Sep 2, 2007)

HDRider said:


> Some of those I might argue, but too many are private, and I am not sure any would be considered comparable to the viper's nest of the Ivy League
> 
> Go ahead if you want to believe universities are teeming with conservative ideology. .


I didn't say that.


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## MoonRiver (Sep 2, 2007)

Oops, I did it again. A different forum. I told myself to stay out of it, but I didn't. I keep seeing people paraphrase Fauci's comment about the smallpox vaccine which he said to try to shame people into getting vaccinated.

This was my attempt at making a measured comment.

_The comparison to polio or smallpox sounds good, but how about if we look at a disease caused by another coronavirus - the common cold. Where is the vaccine? There are many virus-born illnesses we don't have vaccines for. Just because there is a vaccine for smallpox and polio adds nothing to the discussion that I can see._​​_The smallpox vaccine actually used a less deadly form of the pox virus to create the vaccine. Hardly the same thing as an experimental mRNA vaccine._​​_The arguments being made by government leaders are meant to shame people into getting vaccinated and are likely to have the opposite effect._​​_Covid-19 and the various vaccines are serious subjects that deserve scientific discussion and debate. It will be years before we know whether mass vaccination was the right or the wrong strategy. In the meantime, everyone has to make the decision they believe is best for them and their family._​​_I'm disappointed the government is not treating us like adults and telling us both the good and the bad. Quite often, the statistics don't back up what we are being told. Once the government or the media loses the trust of the people, then everything they say is questioned._​​_With all we hear about new cases and deaths, have you looked at the most recent death rate for US? There might be a small uptick in fatal cases, but much smaller than the media would have us believe. _​


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## boatswain2PA (Feb 13, 2020)

MoonRiver said:


> Do you really think 70, 80, and a 90-year-old are the future of conservatism?


Well, you didn't ask for a list of 5 young conservative intellectuals.

The thing with conservatism is it doesn't change, despite what the leftist media tells us. We have been, are, and will always believe in individual rights, limited government, free market, etc. This is the past, the present, and the future of conservatism, so it doesn't really matter the age of those who believe in it.


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## todd_xxxx (Apr 19, 2018)

Religion will be the death of the conservative party. Unless the two are separated, the conservative party will die.


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## GTX63 (Dec 13, 2016)

Maybe you mean the Republican party. That has been the idea since about 1963.


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## todd_xxxx (Apr 19, 2018)

GTX63 said:


> Maybe you mean the Republican party. That has been the idea since about 1963.


I thought most people considered the Republican party to be the conservative party, but I'm sure someone will point out that I'm wrong.


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## GTX63 (Dec 13, 2016)

I would think conservatives and libertarians, and even classic liberals may share more in common than with the current Republican party.
It is no longer semantics. There are two parties that control the game but there are many factions that have influence.


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## Alice In TX/MO (May 10, 2002)

I thought this was pickle loaf. I am now befuddled.


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## GTX63 (Dec 13, 2016)

Texans....


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## Alice In TX/MO (May 10, 2002)




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## Alice In TX/MO (May 10, 2002)

I found this. Must be regional.








Dill Pickle Bread


If you love dill, you are bound to go wild for this white bread with dill pickle, pickle juice and dill weed -plus a little onion. It makes a great bread from your bread machine for a variety of sandwiches: pastrami, grilled cheese, and just about every




www.allrecipes.com


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## no really (Aug 7, 2013)

Alice In TX/MO said:


> View attachment 98285


Well now I need a sandwich!!


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## GTX63 (Dec 13, 2016)

The company store is open!


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## GTX63 (Dec 13, 2016)

Now that the thread went heavy portside-

"Horrible Sandwiches From The Depression"
Peanut and Carrot
Walnut
Bran and Evaporated Milk
Hot Corn
Celery and Biscuit
Cheese curd, Carrot and Pickle
Egg Walnut and Vinegar

My FIL up until he died ate radish sandwiches, whole yellow or red onions just like an apple, mayonnaise and butter sandwiches.
Don't ask what Dishrag Stew was.
The common ingredient for all of the above was a heavy dose of poverty.


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## boatswain2PA (Feb 13, 2020)

todd_xxxx said:


> Religion will be the death of the conservative party. Unless the two are separated, the conservative party will die.


I disagree. While you certainly don't have to be religious to be conservative, I think Christianity IS conservative in it's essence. 

Conservatives believe in personal choice and responsibility, with minimal oversight that protects the minority. We push back against government encroachment of our freedoms unless it is absolutely necessary to protect others. We don't want the all-powerful, all-encompasing government telling us what to do, think, listen to, watch, etc.

Wanna do meth? Great, but you're not getting welfare, and if you hurt someone then you're going to jail.

God (the Christian God) GAVE US personal choice and makes us responsible for what we do. Wanna eat that apple? Great, but you're getting kicked outta the garden.


There certainly are religious wacko's like the Westboro Klan, but there are only about 30 of them, and while most Christian religions share the teachings that homosexual behaviors are sinful, NO other Christian religious groups advocate for what the Westboro sleezeballs do.

However, Westboro has nothing on what some Islamic fundamentalist groups do to homosexuals. Some of their favorite pasttimes are throwing alleged homsexual's off of rooftops to see if they fly.


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## todd_xxxx (Apr 19, 2018)

boatswain2PA said:


> I disagree. While you certainly don't have to be religious to be conservative, I think Christianity IS conservative in it's essence.
> 
> Conservatives believe in personal choice and responsibility, with minimal oversight that protects the minority. We push back against government encroachment of our freedoms unless it is absolutely necessary to protect others. We don't want the all-powerful, all-encompasing government telling us what to do, think, listen to, watch, etc.
> 
> ...


I know what conservatives stand for and believe in. I vote conservative, and most of my belief system lines up with conservative ideals. I'm not talking about the fringe groups. The problem with conservative ideals being tied to religious ideals is that fewer and fewer people are religious, and especially if you believe the Bible is literal, you are going to immediately turn off a very large number of people. All, or nearly all, the conservatives I know have those ideals tightly woven in with their religious beliefs, to the point that, if you aren't religious, a divide immediately opens up between you and the conservatives that are religious.

Personal responsibility is something I believe in very strongly. It doesn't need to be tied to a belief in God.


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## GTX63 (Dec 13, 2016)

todd_xxxx said:


> All, or nearly all, the conservatives I know have those ideals tightly woven in with their religious beliefs, to the point that, if you aren't religious, a divide immediately opens up between you and the conservatives that are religious.
> 
> Personal responsibility is something I believe in very strongly. It doesn't need to be tied to a belief in God.


Religion and government.
One is a chicken and the other is an egg.
One can believe in a proper moral government without electing the pope to run it.
One can believe the Bible as written without expecting friends and family to function in a dogmatic lifestyle.
Like it or not, most every segment of society, from politics, to science, to medicine to sports now functions as a religion.


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## GTX63 (Dec 13, 2016)

Religion is not even comparable to faith and relationship.
The characters of bygone days and the Bible thumping hypocrites trying to legislate lifestyle has gone away from "conservatives" and switched into the liberal camp. Whereas stiff necked Christians taught damnation and hell and judgement, it is now another group that eats their own and declares that you are either for us or against us. They use their bible for canceling, excommunicating and placing scarlet letters on anyone they choose.
Spirituality and acknowledgement of Providence; understanding that we aren't the smartest creatures around is a good thing.
Religion as I believe you are describing it is a ring in the nose.


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## colourfastt (Nov 11, 2006)

101pigs said:


> *A few of my friends was not going to get the shot until two of our friends age 45-48 got the virus and passed away. *I have had 5 Heart operations and was not going to get the shot. However i did get the virus and was a bit sick for 4 days. The health dept. told me to go ahead and get the shot in 30 days. I did not have any side effects from the shot. I plan on getting the next shot for the new virus at health dept. in a few weeks.


I was reading the news last night and this popped up in my feed. It should be a warning to everyone.

Business Insider: A Georgia man, 24, refused a vaccine. He needed a lung transplant because of COVID-19, and his mom is begging people to get their shots.

Georgia man, 24, refused COVID vaccine, now needs lung transplant


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## todd_xxxx (Apr 19, 2018)

colourfastt said:


> I was reading the news last night and this popped up in my feed. It should be a warning to everyone.
> 
> Business Insider: A Georgia man, 24, refused a vaccine. He needed a lung transplant because of COVID-19, and his mom is begging people to get their shots.
> 
> Georgia man, 24, refused COVID vaccine, now needs lung transplant


People that want to get the vaccine don't need to be convinced, and this probably won't sway people that don't want the vaccine.


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## Alice In TX/MO (May 10, 2002)

That is a single case. Means almost nothing in the big scheme of things.


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## todd_xxxx (Apr 19, 2018)

So far, Northwestern Med has performed double lung transplants on 8 covid patients.

Northwestern Edu


*Episode Notes*
Some of the sickest COVID-19 patients have irreversible lung damage, with little hope of getting off a ventilator, but now there is evidence that a double lung transplant could save their lives. In June, Northwestern Medicine surgeons performed the first known double-lung transplant on a COVID-19 patient in the United States. Since then, seven more COVID-19 patients have received double-lung transplants at Northwestern Medicine – a total of eight - the most performed at any health system in the world. These patients have gone on to recover at a rapid pace.


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## MoonRiver (Sep 2, 2007)

colourfastt said:


> I was reading the news last night and this popped up in my feed. It should be a warning to everyone.
> 
> Business Insider: A Georgia man, 24, refused a vaccine. He needed a lung transplant because of COVID-19, and his mom is begging people to get their shots.
> 
> Georgia man, 24, refused COVID vaccine, now needs lung transplant


If the government had approved therapies such as HCQ and ivermectin as treatments maybe the disease wouldn't have progressed into his lungs and been so severe. Of course, I can't say for sure that either would have made a difference, but they certainly have made a difference for many.

This is another case of the media having an agenda and only telling the part of the story that fits that agenda.

We also don't know if he was a smoker, used drugs, or had a comorbidity. We don't know how long after he became infected before he was diagnosed and we don't know what, if any, treatment he received.


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## MoonRiver (Sep 2, 2007)

I just came across this which is somewhat related. Since transplant patients are on immunosuppressants, their immune system reacts differently to the vaccine.

"*Forty-six percent of transplant patients have had no evidence whatsoever that they had an antibody response to the vaccine" after two doses,* Dr. Dorry Segev says. He's a transplant surgeon at Johns Hopkins and one of the authors of the study, which looked at the antibody response after full vaccination with the Moderna and Pfizer shots in more than 650 transplant recipients, including Burns.​​"One of the things that we're really trying to emphasize* to the transplant population is, vaccination does not mean immunity*," Segev says.​​And even i*n transplant patients who did generate an antibody response from the vaccine, he says, "it is less robust than in people with competent immune systems.*"​


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## todd_xxxx (Apr 19, 2018)

MoonRiver said:


> This is another case of the media having an agenda and only telling the part of the story that fits that agenda.


In my mind, that pretty much sums up why not many people on either side are ever going to change their minds. If they read something that agrees with their point of view, it's a fact. If it agrees with the other side, it's agenda-driven fake news. Confirmation bias is very real.


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## wr (Aug 10, 2003)

todd_xxxx said:


> In my mind, that pretty much sums up why not many people on either side are ever going to change their minds. If they read something that agrees with their point of view, it's a fact. If it agrees with the other side, it's agenda-driven fake news. Confirmation bias is very real.


For some it is and others, it's a lot more complicated because we review a great deal of material that contradicts our opinions. I feel that any opinion I strongly hold should stand up to scrutiny. 

The generalizations and assumptions about others are what's driving most of the covid information and misinformation.


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## todd_xxxx (Apr 19, 2018)

wr said:


> For some it is and others, it's a lot more complicated because we review a great deal of material that contradicts our opinions. I feel that any opinion I strongly hold should stand up to scrutiny.
> 
> The generalizations and assumptions about others are what's driving most of the covid information and misinformation.


I was talking about the two groups that have strongly opposing viewpoints on the issue, not the more "moderate" people in the middle. For a moment, I let it slip my mind that posts here are rarely read for their intent, and are more likely to be picked apart for minutiae, and have every word dissected.


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## GTX63 (Dec 13, 2016)

Confirmation bias is a drug. But forget for just a moment the divisions among idealogy and just consider for a moment whether you trust the mainstream media? Do you believe the government agencies and their spokemxn are consistent in their message?
We can still doubt what we are being spoon fed and disagree.


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## MoonRiver (Sep 2, 2007)

todd_xxxx said:


> I was talking about the two groups that have strongly opposing viewpoints on the issue, not the more "moderate" people in the middle. For a moment, I let it slip my mind that posts here are rarely read for their intent, and are more likely to be picked apart for minutiae, and have every word dissected.


I have a strong viewpoint on some subjects and not on others, which is easy to tell by which threads I post in and which I don't. Having a strong opinion doesn't mean that one is inflexible or unwilling to change their opinion. I have gone from believing the vaccines were a miracle of science to now having concerns that there are many serious problems that serious and dedicated scientists have noted that are being mostly ignored by the government.

Ignored is probably the wrong word because I think the government is well aware of these problems but has decided that pushing the vaccines at all costs is the right strategy. I see no other reason for the government ignoring outside experts and discouraging the use of off-label drugs that appear to be very successful at treating Covid-19.

I have seen nothing to indicate that the virus is not still hospitalizing and killing the old, the infirm, those who are immunocompromised, those with comorbidities, those with low vitamin d levels, and especially minorities who are overrepresented in these categories. Yet, government spokespeople and the media blame the lack of vaccinations on the dirty dozen and Trump supporters, when logic says they should focus their attention on those people at the greatest risk.

In other words, how can you believe the government when its 2 highest priorities, regarding Covid-19, should be:
1) Protect those at greatest risk
2) Establish outpatient treatment protocols for people who do get Covid-19.

Yet, they don't appear to be doing either. It has been said that just the use of 1 drug, Ivermectin, could have saved millions of lives.

The 95% protection against death is the average. The young have less than a 95% of dying even without being vaccinated. If the government truly wanted to prevent serious health problems and deaths, they would focus on the highest risk. I just read that the risk of dying of a fully vaccinated 80-year-old is about the same as an unvaccinated 50-year-old.

I wish there was a plausible explanation for the government's policy, but I haven't heard one.


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## todd_xxxx (Apr 19, 2018)

GTX63 said:


> Confirmation bias is a drug. But forget for just a moment the divisions among idealogy and just consider for a moment whether you trust the mainstream media? Do you believe the government agencies and their spokemxn are consistent in their message?
> We can still doubt what we are being spoon fed and disagree.


I don't blindly trust any media, mainstream or otherwise. I do resent the implication that anyone that wanted to get the vaccine is a sheep that believes everything the government and mainstream media says. Do I believe government spokespeople? No. Not now, and not when Trump was in office. Both parties lie their asses off for their own agendas.

I got the vaccine because I read the research that is available about the vaccine, not because I believe to CNN or Gateway Pundit, both of which are entirely full of $hit, btw. I also don't grab ridiculous sound bites that I saw on facebook and present them as fact, as some people are wont to do.


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

More answers than you might like


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## MoonRiver (Sep 2, 2007)

HDRider said:


> More answers than you might like


He was also on the FLCCC weekly update last week.


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## todd_xxxx (Apr 19, 2018)

HDRider said:


> More answers than you might like



It's extremely refreshing to see someone discuss this subject rationally.


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## GTX63 (Dec 13, 2016)

Catch him while you can. He has to work to get exposure.


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## todd_xxxx (Apr 19, 2018)

GTX63 said:


> Catch him while you can. He has to work to get exposure.


The sad part about that is, nothing he said is radical and the information is available to anyone that wants to look and will keep an open mind.


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## GTX63 (Dec 13, 2016)

Mr. Weistein is a good example.
Demonetization of social media platforms, blocking, suspension of posting privileges. Then months later, certain topics are allowed to be discussed on their service, because, as one major social mediapire stated, "The government now backs the data".
The censors and liars are arm in arm.


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## todd_xxxx (Apr 19, 2018)

GTX63 said:


> Mr. Weistein is a good example.
> Demonetization of social media platforms, blocking, suspension of posting privileges. Then months later, certain topics are allowed to be discussed on their service, because, as one major social mediapire stated, "The government now backs the data".
> The censors and liars are arm in arm.


Social media is a terrible place to go for information. If you want information about the vaccines, or ivermectin, or fenbendazole for cancer, you have to dig around to find tidbits that then lead you to actual studies.

I was told not long ago that I may (probably) have cancer. So, I started searching on my own. I found research on fenbendazole, that, much like the information on ivermectin, is readily available if you know to look for it. I'm treating myself. I have tests and more tests and more tests scheduled, tests that I requested beyond the normal ones, and I'll use that information to decide how to proceed. I'm pointing this out because some people here seem to think I'm a drink the Koolaid kind of person, and believe whatever mainstream media, medicine, whatever, have to tell me. I spend far more time than that deciding my position on anything I am interested in, and covid is no different.


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## GTX63 (Dec 13, 2016)

todd_xxxx said:


> Social media is a terrible place to go for information.


Truth has almost become a black market commodity.


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## todd_xxxx (Apr 19, 2018)

GTX63 said:


> Truth has almost become a black market commodity.


I don't find so much that the truth is hidden. More so that it is buried in such an enormity of bad information that it's like looking for the proverbial needle in a haystack.


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## GTX63 (Dec 13, 2016)

Buried generally would be a good descriptive, but if honest accurate information isn't being hidden it is being rated far below what has been served up for our daily bread.
I am sure you are aware of search engine manipulation.


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## todd_xxxx (Apr 19, 2018)

GTX63 said:


> Buried generally would be a good descriptive, but if honest accurate information isn't being hidden it is being rated far below what has been served up for our daily bread.
> I am sure you are aware of search engine manipulation.


I have a more than passing familiarity with it, yes.


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## Vjk (Apr 28, 2020)

"CONSERVATIVE' ONLY MEANS YOU ADHERE TO THE STATUS QUO. IN THE OLD SOVIET UNION, THE COMMUNISTS WERE THE CONSERVATIVES. THE CAPITALISTS WERE THE LIBERALS. THE PARASITES WERE THE CONSERVATIVES, THE CAPITALISTS WERE THE LIBERALS.


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## Alice In TX/MO (May 10, 2002)

I think both terms, conservative and liberal, have been corrupted over the years. As you said, the stances have switched back and forth. 

I think of myself as fiscally conservative. Goals: less government, term limits, lower taxes, fewer handout programs, and more personal responsibility. 

I am a constitutionalist. I advocate following the Constitution of the United States, including the Bill or Rights and ratified amendments.


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## colourfastt (Nov 11, 2006)

Alice In TX/MO said:


> I think both terms, conservative and liberal, have been corrupted over the years. As you said, the stances have switched back and forth.
> 
> I think of myself as fiscally conservative. Goals: less government, term limits, lower taxes, fewer handout programs, and more personal responsibility.
> 
> *I am a constitutionalist. I advocate following the Constitution of the United States, including the Bill or Rights and ratified amendments.*


I have an issue with a country being "governed" by a fossilized (233-year-old) document. My preference is a situation like the UK where the "constitution" is law, case law, and custom.

I also take issue with how the US constitution is treated as some sort of sacred document delivered from on high.


----------



## Vjk (Apr 28, 2020)

colourfastt said:


> I have an issue with a country being "governed" by a fossilized (233-year-old) document. My preference is a situation like the UK where the "constitution" is law, case law, and custom.
> 
> I also take issue with how the US constitution is treated as some sort of sacred document delivered from on high.


Being governed by the whim of whatever party happens to be currently in power, as in parliamentary systems, is an utter absurdity.


----------



## colourfastt (Nov 11, 2006)

Vjk said:


> Being governed by the whim of whatever party happens to be currently in power, as in parliamentary systems, is an utter absurdity.


What is an absurdity is having a government so fossilised that its form is forever frozen into that defined by a small group of men nearly 250 years ago.


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## SLFarmMI (Feb 21, 2013)

colourfastt said:


> I have an issue with a country being "governed" by a fossilized (233-year-old) document. My preference is a situation like the UK where the "constitution" is law, case law, and custom.
> 
> I also take issue with how the US constitution is treated as some sort of sacred document delivered from on high.


I disagree with your take on it. In my view the Constitution is not a "fossilized document". Is it perfect? No, not by a long shot. That's why it has several amendments so that it will not be a "fossilized document" but a document that evolves with the times and needs of the country. It's a pretty good foundational document for the operation of the country and the founders got a lot right with it.


----------



## GTX63 (Dec 13, 2016)

colourfastt said:


> My preference is a situation like the UK where the "constitution" is law, case law, and custom.


And yet...


----------



## todd_xxxx (Apr 19, 2018)

colourfastt said:


> What is an absurdity is having a government so fossilised that its form is forever frozen into that defined by a small group of men nearly 250 years ago.


Do you feel the same way about the Bible?


----------



## MoonRiver (Sep 2, 2007)

colourfastt said:


> I have an issue with a country being "governed" by a fossilized (233-year-old) document. My preference is a situation like the UK where the "constitution" is law, case law, and custom.
> 
> I also take issue with how the US constitution is treated as some sort of sacred document delivered from on high.


Much British common law was incorporated into our Constitution. Our law does include case law, with the requirement that case law must not be in violation of the Constitution. 

There is nothing fossilized about our Constitution, it has been amended 27 times with the most recent being in 1992.


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

Can you imagine trusting today's body politic to rewrite our constitution?


----------



## Alice In TX/MO (May 10, 2002)

Exactly what part of the US Constitution do you have “issues” with, colourfast?


----------



## GunMonkeyIntl (May 13, 2013)

colourfastt said:


> I have an issue with a country being "governed" by a fossilized (233-year-old) document. My preference is a situation like the UK where the "constitution" is law, case law, and custom.
> 
> I also take issue with how the US constitution is treated as some sort of sacred document delivered from on high.


The entire point of The Constitution is that it is a framework, not an entire body of law. It is specific only where it needs to be specific, and is capable of being changed; albeit at a high bar of ratification.

Likening it to a fine old home, the decor may have been changed dozens of times over the centuries. It may have even had minor foundation work, as needed, over the years, but, if it remained sturdy and functional, you wouldn’t tear it down to bare dirt just because it hit a certain age.

If you rebuilt the house every time you wanted to change the decor, you would have spent ten-times as much maintaining the home, and, in the end, would have construction that diminished in quality with each rebuild. Your fine old stone home would eventually become an IKEA Kit-House.


----------



## JeffreyD (Dec 27, 2006)

todd_xxxx said:


> Social media is a terrible place to go for information. If you want information about the vaccines, or ivermectin, or fenbendazole for cancer, you have to dig around to find tidbits that then lead you to actual studies.
> 
> I was told not long ago that I may (probably) have cancer. So, I started searching on my own. I found research on fenbendazole, that, much like the information on ivermectin, is readily available if you know to look for it. I'm treating myself. I have tests and more tests and more tests scheduled, tests that I requested beyond the normal ones, and I'll use that information to decide how to proceed. I'm pointing this out because some people here seem to think I'm a drink the Koolaid kind of person, and believe whatever mainstream media, medicine, whatever, have to tell me. I spend far more time than that deciding my position on anything I am interested in, and covid is no different.


Im sorry to hear this. Cancer sucks ass. I wish you all the best.


----------



## todd_xxxx (Apr 19, 2018)

JeffreyD said:


> Im sorry to hear this. Cancer sucks ass. I wish you all the best.


Thanks. I'm not too concerned right now, but I appreciate the well-wishes.


----------



## MoonRiver (Sep 2, 2007)

HDRider said:


> Can you imagine trusting today's body politic to rewrite our constitution?


Remember how I have been lamenting we don't have conservative intellectuals? That's how I got there. Where are the Jeffersons and the Madisons and even the Franklins?


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## Vjk (Apr 28, 2020)

Ummmm ... they were the Liberals of the day. Rejecting the crown and all that.


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## Deniser60 (May 24, 2018)

MoonRiver said:


> Something I have wondered about is why are there so few intellectuals on the conservative side? I don't mean to make this political, just curious as to why conservative intellectuals are looked at as oddities. Maybe it's that conservatives don't hang around universities and earn PhDs, but tend more toward business and the physical sciences where a Ph.D. is not necessary.


I’m not being unkind, but I think common sense has something to do with it. My daughter had to take a philosophy course for her degree and the professor told the class that there is no such thing as common sense. I don’t know if she’s the only professor that holds that opinion but you can’t help but wonder other-wise.


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## Hiro (Feb 14, 2016)

Vjk said:


> Ummmm ... they were the Liberals of the day. Rejecting the crown and all that.


They were radicals of the day. Many of them were prospering just fine under the status quo, yet had the courage to pledge their lives, fortunes and sacred honor to overthrow the tyranny that they had prospered under for the idea of freedom.


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

Vjk said:


> Ummmm ... they were the* Liberals* of the day. Rejecting the crown and all that.


I hate how they label themselves. They do nothing but intend to mislead. Progressives my ass. We need to have a contest to name them accurately. I can't share the ones that come to mind.

Classical liberalism is a political and economic ideology that advocates the protection of civil liberties and laissez-faire economic freedom by limiting the power of the central government.


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## Stomperno1 (Aug 13, 2011)

MoonRiver said:


> I am a member of a heart disease forum and there is a thread on Covid-19. I normally stay out of it, but for some reason, I decided to read it tonight. Needless to say, I quickly became a persona non grata.
> 
> I posted concerns I had about the vaccines and that if I had it to do over again, I didn't think I would get vaccinated. I was quickly labeled an anti-vaxer, right-wing, Trump supporter, spreader of disinformation, and one person even said I should be banned from the site. All their arguments seemed to be based on what someone in the government has said, not on scientific studies or actual reports from doctors working in the field. They like to quote university professors too.
> 
> ...


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## Stomperno1 (Aug 13, 2011)

very well said we are w/ ya^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^


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## Gomezaddams51 (May 2, 2021)

MoonRiver said:


> I posted concerns I had about the vaccines and that if I had it to do over again, I didn't think I would get vaccinated. I was quickly labeled an anti-vaxer, right-wing, Trump supporter, spreader of disinformation, and one person even said I should be banned from the site. All their arguments seemed to be based on what someone in the government has said, not on scientific studies or actual reports from doctors working in the field. They like to quote university professors too.
> 
> As Rush used to say, I'm just a Lovable Little Fuzzball.
> 
> ...


*Report: 49 Fully Vaccinated in New Jersey Have Died of the Coronavirus *Report: 49 Fully Vaccinated in New Jersey Have Died of the Coronavirus#
The shot is not the salvation the government claims. I also read where instead of the 12.5% of pregnant women having miscarriages from the shot the real number is 82% miscarriages. 
CDC Caught Manipulating Numbers From Studies to Show Covid “Vaccine” Safe for Pregnant Women

The government is not telling us the truth and the sheeple are falling for it.


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## RoBlaine (Mar 24, 2015)

101pigs said:


> A few of my friends was not going to get the shot until two of our friends age 45-48 got the virus and passed away. I have had 5 Heart operations and was not going to get the shot. However i did get the virus and was a bit sick for 4 days. The health dept. told me to go ahead and get the shot in 30 days. I did not have any side effects from the shot. I plan on getting the next shot for the new virus at health dept. in a few weeks.


I'm 65, my wife is 70. We both have had heart attacks and have high blood pressure, she is asthmatic and I'm type 2 diabetic. We should be in the high risk range. We both got the Rona the day before Thanksgiving, 2020. We were both sick with some fever, heavy coughing and so tired it was hard to do anything. She lost her senses of smell and taste, I didn't. I got hit with diarrhea so bad that from late morning to early evening I got dangerously dehydrated. I couldn't drink fast enough so I won a four day hospital stay with full IVs to get and keep me hydrated. They didn't want me out of bed without someone, well, when you gotta go, you gotta go, not wait for someone on an understaffed floor. I caught hell several times a day. If they jump high enough, they'll get over it. After the second day they gave up and shut off the alarms. They knew they weren't going to win over me. Another thing, while out of bed I'd take the IV pole for a walk around the room, several times each time I got out of bed. I couldn't just lay there, it made me feel like crap - not just from the diarrhea! Some exercise, even the light exercise of walking around the bed helped SOOO much. I fully believe that their method of treatment by forcing bed rest does more harm than good, at least for me. I could feel the congestion building up in my lungs. Walking and coughing kept it loose and moving.
Now, to the vaccine. We both got it, doctor's orders. The first shot did nothing to us, not even a sore spot. The second shot ... Unholy Shiite! My wife, the next morning, had chills so bad she was actually fluttering - not shivering or shaking, fluttering! She couldn't hold her arms, hands, legs or feet still. No fever at all. She also had a sore, tender spot at the injection site. For me, that next morning felt like I'd been hit by a truck. My right side, the side I got the second shot in, was pure torture from my sternum around my rib cage to my backbone, from halfway up my neck down to around belt level including my entire arm and hand. I couldn't move without severe groaning and I couldn't even lift my elbow from my side without louder noise. That lasted for both of us until evening, just under around 10 hours. We got the shot at 10 am the previous day. In the early evening all effects disappeared, totally and almost instantly and at around the same time for both of us. Weird? Yes, but oddly in a strange way.
BTW, we got the Pfizer brand. 
Do it again? We're both going to grill our doctors about the need before we get any of the boosters. Now, we just have to decide whether to do the grilling with BBQ sauce or a dry rub. What do you all think would work best on doctors? Oh, both of our doctors are young women. Why would I have a woman doctor? It's simple, I'm over 50 and lady doctors have small fingers ... If I need to explain, I will!


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## todd_xxxx (Apr 19, 2018)

Gomezaddams51 said:


> *Report: 49 Fully Vaccinated in New Jersey Have Died of the Coronavirus *Report: 49 Fully Vaccinated in New Jersey Have Died of the Coronavirus#
> The shot is not the salvation the government claims. I also read where instead of the 12.5% of pregnant women having miscarriages from the shot the real number is 82% miscarriages.
> CDC Caught Manipulating Numbers From Studies to Show Covid “Vaccine” Safe for Pregnant Women
> 
> The government is not telling us the truth and the sheeple are falling for it.


 82%. Of course the sheeple are involved again. For Christ's sake.


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## Amber Butler (Mar 21, 2021)

MoonRiver said:


> Something I have wondered about is why are there so few intellectuals on the conservative side? I don't mean to make this political, just curious as to why conservative intellectuals are looked at as oddities. Maybe it's that conservatives don't hang around universities and earn PhDs, but tend more toward business and the physical sciences where a Ph.D. is not necessary.


There isn’t less intellectual conservatives, you are immersing yourself with nonintellectual ones. This is your bias speaking and frankly comes of as not intellectual. The start of your discussion was great however.


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## MoonRiver (Sep 2, 2007)

Amber Butler said:


> There isn’t less intellectual conservatives, you are immersing yourself with nonintellectual ones. This is your bias speaking and frankly comes of as not intellectual. The start of your discussion was great however.


How would you know whom I immerse myself with and what my biases are?


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## Alice In TX/MO (May 10, 2002)

Based on your posts, I am guessing.


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## MoonRiver (Sep 2, 2007)

Alice In TX/MO said:


> Based on your posts, I am guessing.


Pretty perceptive (and insulting) for someone's 1st post.


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## Alice In TX/MO (May 10, 2002)

Oh. You mean their first post.

Thinking positively, perhaps a long time lurker.

Also, could be a FB troll dipping his gnarled troll toes in the forum pool.

I am working on not being as insulated by comments. WORKING, I say.


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

MoonRiver said:


> Pretty perceptive (and insulting) for someone's 1st post.


They lay in wait. It is a convenient form of activism. 

I have noticed when I press a hot button we have newbies fall out of the sky to counter me. Google sends them here.


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

Alice In TX/MO said:


> insulated


?


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## Alice In TX/MO (May 10, 2002)

Dang multitasking.

I am in the midst of two remodel jobs, one tiny house design, two plumbing issues, and I need to finish getting the tax data ready for the accountant for the 2020 return.

It’s a wonder that I had MOST of the letters for that word correct.


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## Clem (Apr 12, 2016)

Gomezaddams51 said:


> *Report: 49 Fully Vaccinated in New Jersey Have Died of the Coronavirus *Report: 49 Fully Vaccinated in New Jersey Have Died of the Coronavirus#
> The shot is not the salvation the government claims. I also read where instead of the 12.5% of pregnant women having miscarriages from the shot the real number is 82% miscarriages.
> CDC Caught Manipulating Numbers From Studies to Show Covid “Vaccine” Safe for Pregnant Women
> 
> The government is not telling us the truth and the sheeple are falling for it.


82%, is a lot. and you're sure your source, welovetrump.com is a real news source, huh?


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## B&L Chicken Ranch and Spa (Jan 4, 2019)

MoonRiver said:


> Something I have wondered about is why are there so few intellectuals on the conservative side? I don't mean to make this political, just curious as to why conservative intellectuals are looked at as oddities. Maybe it's that conservatives don't hang around universities and earn PhDs, but tend more toward business and the physical sciences where a Ph.D. is not necessary.



There are plenty of "intellectuals" on the conservative "side", they just are smart enough to keep their collective heads down.

The pile on is never plesent so why expose yourself when there is no obvious gain?


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## doc- (Jun 26, 2015)

MoonRiver said:


> Remember how I have been lamenting we don't have conservative intellectuals? That's how I got there. Where are the Jeffersons and the Madisons and even the Franklins?





Vjk said:


> Ummmm ... they were the Liberals of the day. Rejecting the crown and all that.


The terms conservative and liberal are relative to the status quo-- a conservative wants to save things as they are, while the liberal feels free to change things. ..A conservative in 1955 USSR was all for communism while a liberal in 1955 USA agreed with him.


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## Forcast (Apr 15, 2014)

Now hold on! Breaking news ! People vaccinated are causing the variants in covid and pass it on to others. Thats why mask mandatory is coming back.


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## GTX63 (Dec 13, 2016)

I doubt we'll see the rush on buying masks like we did before.
Millions of Americans should be able to just reach under their front seat or across the dash and grab old faithful.


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## GTX63 (Dec 13, 2016)




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