# Torn udder update with pics



## Creamers (Aug 3, 2010)

Okay - the tears, though the bleed, as fairly small and superficial 

But this doe's udder is shot  I am sure. It is SUCH a shame.

Here she was two weeks ago:










Here is is post horrific kidding that ended up with two dead kids. . .

and mind you, it LOOKS better, than it did when she kidded - which is scary. . . 

Anyone ever see such a thing? Milk is clear, at this time no mastitis - - -
the injured areas are somewhat hard - but it is from swelling, it seems - 

A MESS  We've miked her out 3 times today.



















ALSO - Look at her poor female parts  Those kids were stuck - two coming out at the same time - it was bad. . .

Should that go down in time? It is just hugely swollen, but like the teats, actually. . .

We clean her up pre milking . ..but there is still some gooping. . .very mildly. . .as you can see. . .
she kidded less than 48 hours ago.


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## Rockytopsis (Dec 29, 2007)

I have read that you can put Prep H on her rear to help reduce the swelling.
Nancy


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## Creamers (Aug 3, 2010)

I'm going to try that - I am going up and back right now waiting on a doe having issues trying to kid - will do that tonight


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## nehimama (Jun 18, 2005)

The swelling will go down on it's own without treatment. Had a horrific kidding here about 3 weeks ago, very invasive. The dam's perineal area looked just like what you posted, Creamers. She looks fine now.

I don't know WHAT to say about her poor udder. I've never seen anything like that!


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## Creamers (Aug 3, 2010)

I haven't seen anything like it either, and it looked worse than that as she was kidding. . . it was VERY big the night before she kidded, but not deformed and red. . .and I'd have milk then, but I did not think it wise. . .sure wish I had now


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## Laverne (May 25, 2008)

I would give vitamin C. 3/4 tsp. twice a day. I make a paste of it with a little instant pudding, then drench.


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## SherrieC (Aug 24, 2002)

Oh that poor baby, prep h, and Vit C keep her clean just keep milking and treating, she should look much better in two weeks. Of course if germs get in there she could also look much worse. (politian answer) I don't think I still have the photos of the teats I was dealing with they were also pretty gross.


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## Bfly Farmer (Aug 8, 2006)

Oh my. I have never seen anything like that, but maybe also try some tea tree oil on the udder. It has anti-fungal and anti-bacterial properties. I use it on any injuries and they have all healed well (including a rooster a fox got too!).

A lot of times it comes as a brush on - thick, but I keep mine in a spray bottle with some water to dilute it.


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## Alice In TX/MO (May 10, 2002)

Don't put tea tree oil on straight. Mix it with something. It burns if put on straight.


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## pygmybabies (Apr 24, 2010)

They have a wound spray you can use on genitals I had to use it on tito with his pens issue..muffins back end looks even worsevthan that so I am slaying that on it then using prep h switching each..it is made by mane n tail called skin and wound treatment


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## myheaven (Apr 14, 2006)

After I had a very hard and invasive delivery (me the human) what felt sooooo good was a pad with refriderated witch hazel on it. Also a warm comfrey compress ohhhh how good it felt and how fast I healed. I looked like your doe in the bum. A comfrey compress on the teat would most likely feel good drizzled with a littl tea tree oil to prevent infection. Preperation h as stated above is wonderful also.


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## motdaugrnds (Jul 3, 2002)

This looks "topical" to me as though whoever is doing the milking had something on their hands that irritated the teats. I say this because I think you said she has no kid nursing her.

If she were mine, I would do the following immediately:

Take warm water with just a touch of Hydrogen Pyroxide in it, make sure she is tied up as she may not like this and wash her udder and teats real well. Then "thickly" cover all irritated areas with NFL (a nitrofurozone ointment .2% in a water base of polyethylene glycol). In 12 hours, wash again with real warm (soapy water this time) & using a very soft cloth. Coat again "thickly" with NFL. [This ointment will be quite soothing & healing!]

As for her vaginal area, I would use the Prep H or triple antibiotic (pushing some of this into her).


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## Creamers (Aug 3, 2010)

The teats actually looked much worse prior to kidding and during kidding, before milking. . .so much so. . .we were afraid to milk her. . .


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## Pony (Jan 6, 2003)

Dang. (and that's not the first word I typed.)

Oh, dear. Your poor girl, and poor you! Oh, my that looks AWFUL.

I'm glad that it's better, and hope that it will continue to improve. Agree with Alice: do NOT use straight tea tree oil - the poor doe will go through the roof. 

Soothing compresses, keep clean, and the teats look so danged raw... I'm thinking zinc oxide ointment for that.

Keep on keepin' on. You're seeing improvement, so that's a good thing. I'm praying for you and your goatie gal.


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## Pony (Jan 6, 2003)

Oh, just saw the other suggestion about triple-biotic.

DO NOT USE THAT IN HER PERINEAL AREA. IT CAN CAUSE FUNGAL/YEAST INFECTION.


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## Pony (Jan 6, 2003)

motdaugrnds said:


> As for her vaginal area, I would use the Prep H or triple antibiotic (pushing some of this into her).


No, no, no, please no!

Triple biotic introduced into the vagina will cause a wicked yeast infection.


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## punchiepal (Oct 11, 2008)

My hands get REALLY bad sometimes if I get birthing fluids on them, especially if I don't wash them off soon enough. Almost looks like a burn or major skin irritation maybe from the fluids or something that was used during the pulling of the kids? Lube, iodine used to clean the area or person's hands? Iodine makes me get a sunburn-like irritation. Maybe treat it like you would a burn?


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## BackfourtyMI. (Sep 3, 2007)

I wish I had advice for you other than the Preperation H for her rear end as for her udder & teats I'd be right here like you asking for all these folks advice too. Never seen anything like that before. I sure hope she pulls through all this for you.


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## Creamers (Aug 3, 2010)

might be from birth fluids, then - they were like that before we pulled the kids or milked her. . .though


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## Creamers (Aug 3, 2010)

Here is a photo from tonight - I really think the many small cuts and gashes are why the one side IS SO messed up. . .


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## motdaugrnds (Jul 3, 2002)

Well, she is looking a little better.

I am wondering if somehow her nipples got the birthing fluid on them. That could certainly cause such an irritation if left on.

Thank you so much, Pony, for letting me know about the Trip-antibiotic. I had no idea it would cause a yeast infection. (I use it for most everything and it has never failed me yet; but sure don't like the idea of there being a first time at the expense of my does.)


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## Pony (Jan 6, 2003)

motdaugrnds said:


> Well, she is looking a little better.
> 
> I am wondering if somehow her nipples got the birthing fluid on them. That could certainly cause such an irritation if left on.
> 
> Thank you so much, Pony, for letting me know about the Trip-antibiotic. I had no idea it would cause a yeast infection. (I use it for most everything and it has never failed me yet; but sure don't like the idea of there being a first time at the expense of my does.)


I'm the same way with that stuff, usually. 

I am so sorry that I was so very emphatic, but oh! Can you imagine how that would be? :grit:


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## CarolT (Mar 12, 2009)

Maybe put some aloe on them? It does look like some kind of burn  Poor baby and poor you! I know I'd cringe having to milk or to see it engorged if I didn't.


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## Creamers (Aug 3, 2010)

I am sure if birth fluids can cause such irritation, it was the fluids that did it. 
The one side looks almost normal today, though the other side looks worse - please the cuts make it a real mess, too


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## Gailann Schrader (May 10, 2002)

Those were tears or are those sores? If sores, look up lysigin. I had issues years ago and had to use lysigin. Like cold sores on the udder.

I'm so so sorry you had this problem... And sorry the doe had to go through it as well.


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## Creamers (Aug 3, 2010)

Now, I did use Lysigin. . .but these look like cuts/tears.

This is from tonight before milking.

There is a lot of edema on the one side. . .my fingers leave deep indentions. . .
it is just warm, not hot - milk flows easy and no clots, etc


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## pookshollow (Aug 22, 2005)

I would say the skin has split from the swelling. Saw that once on a horse who had just been gelded - ouch! 

It does look like it's improving, so keep doing what you're doing.


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## Creamers (Aug 3, 2010)

I think it was so swollen, you're right, it likely did burst


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## Cannon_Farms (Aug 28, 2008)

I would use tri care over the furazone because it has a pain killer and it also stays on better.
That being said if you are wanting to use the milk you can slather it with bag balm and try to lightly bandage it as you want to keep as much dirt out as possible.

Could her hooves done this? looking at it maybe her kicking at her babies with a large udder and her larger teats. the inside one could have been done by her laying down. My only other thought is if shes on straw, mites can also be in straw but looking at it thats a bit far fetched on this case.


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## Gailann Schrader (May 10, 2002)

Darn it, Creamers, that just looks incredibly painful...

The other side is looking much better, but that left side. wow. just wow. 

I don't think I've quite seen this before. Do you think it's like stretch marks only to the nth? The teat couldn't expand?

Fascinatingly awful. Fascinatingly interesting. Again, I'm so sorry you and the doe have to go throught this. But it's certainly something curious to see.

That doe I had would have huge hot spots on her teats that I had to treat with lysigin. Stress-related, I'm told.

Did you say, is she a first-freshener?


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## motdaugrnds (Jul 3, 2002)

OMG I sure would fight if I were her getting milked. Poor girl! 

I hope you are only taking enough milk out to keep her udder from getting overly tight. That doe needs to dry up.

I would, also, keep that udder wrapped up with salve and a good pad so nothing else can harm it.


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## Creamers (Aug 3, 2010)

She is a FF.

Her hooves are very short, but her - are they considered dew claws - are rough. . .

The teats were SO huge before kidding, it really might be from the expansion and skin splitting. . .

I cover it in 100% lanolin and the burn treatment . . .the common people treatment cream . . can't think of the name - silver? ? ?

I wrap it, too


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## luvzmybabz (Sep 8, 2008)

Have you given her any banamine? It helps with swelling and pain


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## Creamers (Aug 3, 2010)

I hadn't thought of it, actually - I believe I might do that tomorrow


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## dosthouhavemilk (Oct 29, 2004)

It looks like the teats I see on occasion on FFs with severe edema. 
Especially since you said you are leaving imprints. It generally takes a few days of milking to bring it down.
She could have split from too much edema as well. We see it in cows more than goats. Again, especially in FFs.
How much salt was in her diet before kidding? Salt intake increases edema.
I would keep milking her. Some bag balm or udder ointment on the cuts to help soothe and heal them.
You are definitely headed in the proper direction.


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## Cheribelle (Jul 23, 2007)

It is looking better. Poor girl. 
Strange, around here I am not getting udders on anyone! Tiny little udders even on 2nd year does.


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## Gailann Schrader (May 10, 2002)

Silvadene - great stuff. Works wonders.


I'd keep milking her too. She's already got a lot of milk, the daily 'massages' will help her and you can massage in the creams at the same time...

Poor baby. Maybe next freshening you can keep her milked down before the babies come? It causes a big discussion, but I've had to milk several down BEFORE kidding... They were just too large.

Best of luck with her! Give her another week or two and I'll bet, setting aside the discolorations, she'll look 'normal'.


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## Creamers (Aug 3, 2010)

> Silvadene


 Yes! Using that and alt. with lanolin.

I would milk her before kidding if I could do it over. .. for sure!


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## Creamers (Aug 3, 2010)

Pics from tonight - maybe slightly better on the awful side - much better, almost normal, on the left

The blackish areas are scabs and bruising - mostly scabs


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## Gailann Schrader (May 10, 2002)

Improving. ...make sure you goop on the cream on Franken-teat. And you did treat with lysigin, correct?

...looking much better, is she eating and pooping and peeing ok? 

((hugs))

It'll be ok.


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## Creamers (Aug 3, 2010)

Yes, I did. She seems to feel normal - 

We wrap lightly after covering it with lanolin or the Silvadene - alternate


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## victory (Mar 2, 2010)

If you can get some Arnica 30c it is a homeopathic...start off with 3 pellets in a bit of water every 15 minutes for at least three treatments in a row, then three times a day for several weeks. Arnica is so wonderful in healing muscles and tissues, it saved Moon Beams udder this winter when she was attacked by a dog. Once you are done with the arnica, calendula helps with scarring!!Cream, powder, or pellets will work. 
My goodness, your poor goat!! I nearly cried when I saw those pictures!! Brings back memories !!
Sending good thoughts your way!! And here's a hug for ya!! O


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## SherrieC (Aug 24, 2002)

Don't do this now it's too late, but as this also was edema? In that case a good thing to do is Dexamethasone 3 cc's once a day for 3 days and 1/4 cc of oxytocin before each milking. If you had those drugs on hand that would have helped quicker with the swelling, and maybe lessened the severity of the skin damage.


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## southerngurl (May 11, 2003)

This is exactly what my grandfather's doe did. This was back when we first got goats. He called me in the real early morning (now he had to really need help to do that!) and said that doe wouldn't let the kid nurse and he had been fighting with them for a long time. So I went over and her teats were all read and inflamed. It was horrible trying to milk them out. Finally we got a little catheter and put up in the orifice and let the milk drain out which was much easier on us all. But not a great idea because of contamination in the udder. One side healed up quickly (much like your pic) and was ok, but the other was worse and she ended up losing most of her production on that side. The skin sloughed off her teats before it was over.


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## pookshollow (Aug 22, 2005)

That's looking a _lot _better! :goodjob:


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## cjb (May 2, 2006)

Is looking much, much better. This thread makes me cringe and I'm not even female 

Are you planning to dry her out or continue milking?


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## Creamers (Aug 3, 2010)

We will likely continue milking her.

We gave her Dex, and we have about an meds you can imagine on hand. . .but we didn't continue the dex after the delivery.

Arnica 30 - I'll check into that - here is the udder today:

A lot more red, though


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## victory (Mar 2, 2010)

Keep up the good work on her!!
She knows you are pulling for her!!
Energy is so important in healing!


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## farmerjohn (Jun 11, 2010)

Is she having an allergic reaction maybe to the straw? I have had a doe in the past that turned red and irratated because of the straw. SHe did not get near this bad though. I removed that straw from her pena dn she impoved almost overnight. I do not know if it was just that particular bale or that straw from that supplier or what. I did change suppliers and have never had a problem until this last doe freshing. She is red and irratated on both teats one more than the other but maybe needs a different thread.


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## Creamers (Aug 3, 2010)

Another updated photo from tonight after applying the silvadene cream and lanolin . ..










I think it looks darker, etc because of healing. . .right?


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## Cannon_Farms (Aug 28, 2008)

yes, busing always looks worse when its healing. what does her future entail?


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## Creamers (Aug 3, 2010)

If her udder heals, I will continue to milk her until fall and breed her to our Nigerian only - nothing else - for F1 Minis. . .She is a very nice doe - - -beyond this whole mess.


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## Cannon_Farms (Aug 28, 2008)

that she is, which is why I was curious lol


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## Creamers (Aug 3, 2010)

LOL - Oh, from these pics. . .I wouldn't have expected anyone to think much of her though - haa haa. Just pre-kidding, she was nice over all, and she was out first bred, born and re-bred here along with his sister. . .bottle babies - we are attached, esp. since we lost her dam


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## farmerjohn (Jun 11, 2010)

Looks way better that at the first pics. That right side looks to be healing well and is way down in size. Poor Poor girl. I imagine she must be in such pain. If you give the banimine to help from the inside will putting it on the teat help from the outside? Or is there an RX product we can use for something like this to kill the pain?

Good work Creamers. She is lucky to have you as her owner.


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## Creamers (Aug 3, 2010)

I would give banamine, but she seems to feel totally normal - which means she is awfully tough! lol


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## Cannon_Farms (Aug 28, 2008)

if you do sell her  keep me in mind. Did she have any doe kids? once i have a free moment I need to email you and us talk.


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## Creamers (Aug 3, 2010)

I have the mini Nubian doeling out of her full sister. . .she was a FF and the one that neither kid made it - I also have a 1/2 sister bred to the sire of this same do due to kid - if all goes well - March 1st. Email me anytime


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## Creamers (Aug 3, 2010)

Tonight next to her full sister who delivered without issue 2 days prior - so 6 days fresh and the other is 8 days - both FFs - one year old in Feb

Wondering if I should be worried about stricture on that teat?


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## Alice In TX/MO (May 10, 2002)

I must admit I didn't read every post. Sorry. Is she on an antibiotic, too?

I wondering if there's a topical anti-inflammatory.


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## Gailann Schrader (May 10, 2002)

I was just thinking antibiotic as well. I don't like that the color is regressing... Don't mean to be an alarmist, but I don't care for it one bit. Do you have a vet close?


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## Creamers (Aug 3, 2010)

Yes, she is on an antibiotic - it is hard to tell from the photos - the dark red is a scab around the whole teat - it isn't her skin - it is loose and starting to come off of the teat, but I am not willing to mess with it and try to remove it . . 
It really looks amazing considering everything. . .


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## Creamers (Aug 3, 2010)

Photo from this afternoon - the scab is actually separating from the teat - the whole really dark red area on both teats - it is all loose scabbing . . .I could cut it off, but I think I'll just it some off on its own. . .


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## Oat Bucket Farm (Jul 28, 2006)

It getting better bit by bit. It lookds like once this is all healed she will have a really pretty udder.


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## Creamers (Aug 3, 2010)

she sure ended up with VERY long, milkable teats - lol - the poor dear. . .
I'm glad to have her - long teats or not. . .I will miss her dam very much


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## Gailann Schrader (May 10, 2002)

I apologize if I made it sound like you missed something. No, I wouldn't remove the scab either. Man, this doe has seen a lot in her short life...


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## farmerjohn (Jun 11, 2010)

You both are to be commended for all that both of you have gone through. My doe has the left teat also sore and has been bleeding. But certainly not like your doe. The right side cleared up fast and is now not at all painful to touch. And it looks more like a teat and not a little tiny thing. That left side though is still a little raw on the front part and to the inside and is still bleeding a little. I noticed that as it heals the skin becomes rough and scabby and then the scabby part just starts flaking away. Hopefully all will go well with both of our does and things will heal up quickly. I cannot begin to imagine the pain this causes the doe.


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## Creamers (Aug 3, 2010)

> I apologize if I made it sound like you missed something. No, I wouldn't remove the scab either. Man, this doe has seen a lot in her short life...


No problem Gailann - honestly, from the photos. I can see how it would seem to be getting worse because you can't tell it is a scab - but once you realize it is a scab - not the actually skin, it seems to be improving, I think


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## Creamers (Aug 3, 2010)

Day 9



















This is after milking her out. . .

Anyone think I should mess with the scab?


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## Cheribelle (Jul 23, 2007)

No, just keep it soft with the creams like you are doing. It is still protecting very tender new skin underneath. Looking much better, too!


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## Alice In TX/MO (May 10, 2002)

No, I don't think you should mess with it. Just make sure it stays clean.


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## Rockytopsis (Dec 29, 2007)

That girl is looking so much better, good job.


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## LittleRedHen (Apr 26, 2006)

all I can say is WOW!!!! and thanks for sharing with all of these picture updates! I enjoyed being able to learn through your experience! And i think that she and her sister have a great udder and nice milkable teats  I hope my does grow up to look as nice


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## nehimama (Jun 18, 2005)

Good Lord, I've never seen anything like this. You're to be commended on your diligence and dedication to this doe. She certainly is in the right home. Looking forward to pics of healing, and I hope it goes smoothly for both of you from now on.


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## Creamers (Aug 3, 2010)

Thanks, everyone - I'm hoping it heals fairly normally!


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## Oat Bucket Farm (Jul 28, 2006)

She is really looking better. You have done such a good job taking care of her and your patience in working her through this has been wonderful. I wouldn't mess with the scab. Unless its already falling off, it is still doing a job. Thank you for letting me learn through your experience.


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## nduetime (Dec 15, 2005)

You, my dear, are a saint! What a wonderful, patient person you are. This lovely little doe could have no better home than with you.:goodjob::clap::clap::clap:


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## Creamers (Aug 3, 2010)

Thank you - I can tell the skin behind is very raw and such, so I figured leaving the scab intact was the best option for now.
She was on 3 days of excenel, and finished a week of Biomycin - should I continue with the biomycin?


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## Pony (Jan 6, 2003)

Creamers, you totally blow my mind! What an ABSOLUTELY FANTASTIC job you've done with this doe! I don't know about the biomycin, but if you're feeding her probiotics, I'd maybe go a couple or three more days, just to be sure. My goodness, I can't get over how well she is doing. No doe ever had a more dedicated or loving healer.


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## Creamers (Aug 3, 2010)

Thank you, Pony


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## Creamers (Aug 3, 2010)

Now it is easy to tell what a scab has formed - 

I think this is day ten

Here are the 1st and 3rd day photo to compare how far she has come so far:


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## Pony (Jan 6, 2003)

WOW! She's come a looooooooooooong way!

Lookin' good -well, good-er than she did before, by far!


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## Oat Bucket Farm (Jul 28, 2006)

She is looking soooo much better! I can't wait to see what it looks like once the scab comes off.


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## nduetime (Dec 15, 2005)

While I am very happy she has scabbed over and done so well...I gotta say that huge scab would give me the creeps! It is just so YUCKY! I do not know why this bothers me but it does. Goofy, I know.


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## Pony (Jan 6, 2003)

nduetime said:


> While I am very happy she has scabbed over and done so well...I gotta say that huge scab would give me the creeps! It is just so YUCKY! I do not know why this bothers me but it does. Goofy, I know.


Oh, I agree: That is one IMPRESSIVE scab! (I would so be wanting to pick at it... Yes, I am one of those kinds of people...)

A little creepy, but a much better outcome than I think any of us anticipated!


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## southerngurl (May 11, 2003)

Do not mess with the scabbing, you want it to stay on as long as possible.


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## BethW (May 3, 2007)

Unbelievable job! I couldn't look at those first pictures without cringing; the difference now is incredible.

What a lucky doe she is to have you


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## Gaby Rose (Jan 17, 2011)

I don't understand how you're milking with that huge scab on there! You must have a very gentle touch Creamers. It looks like it would crack and peel just from looking at it.


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## victory (Mar 2, 2010)

Creamers, 
Goodness gracious sakes of mercy!!! She looks amazingly awesome!!!
You deserve a huge pat on the back, sounds like everyone on here totally agrees with me!!! You've done an awesome job!!
That scab tissue is doing a great job protecting that wound, and eventually it will sluff off, but in it's own time!! Can't wait to see how she heals, you are one dedicated goat~tress!!!


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## Laverne (May 25, 2008)

If I hung those pictures on my refridgerator I'd lose a lot of weight.


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## Creamers (Aug 3, 2010)

haa haa, Laverne. . . lol

It looks much better even now - 2 days later - scab is coming off slowly. . .I think it really will look basically normal once it heals.


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## Cheribelle (Jul 23, 2007)

Excellent job. Can't wait to see all back to normal.


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## Creamers (Aug 3, 2010)

I need to take pics now - it will look so normal once this scab is totally off!


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## Creamers (Aug 3, 2010)

Today


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## nigeriandwarfs (Jan 23, 2011)

wow creamers she was sure lucky to have such a caring owner looking after her. Well done... 



http://2012youdecide.blogspot.com


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## CaliannG (Apr 29, 2005)

Wow, HUGE difference! Good going!


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## Alice In TX/MO (May 10, 2002)

That's looking really good.


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## Oat Bucket Farm (Jul 28, 2006)

Looking really good!


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## yarrow (Apr 27, 2004)

she's look great!! good job!!!!

susie, mo ozarks


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## Minelson (Oct 16, 2007)

Amazing! And so fast...you are awesome Creamers!  And so is your goat !!


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## DamnearaFarm (Sep 27, 2007)

Wow. What a difference! Way to go, Creamers. 

Regarding scabs.... my then six year old daughter unknowingly slid her finger between the seat and the seat frame at a local restaurant. Then she sat down and scooted forward to the table. 

After we got over our amazement that she wasn't going to lose the end of her finger, we became worried about her use of it- that poor little digit looked like someone had run it through a grinder! It stayed that way for a few weeks and one day when she was washing her hands, the 'ground up' part fell off! And under it was her tiny, PERFECT finger! That ugly ol' scab protected her new skin long enough to ensure it was healthy and ready to go before it fell off. 

I hope your 'girl' has the same end result.


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## Gailann Schrader (May 10, 2002)

LOOKS GREAT!!! The right side looks completely normal!


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## Creamers (Aug 3, 2010)

thanks!


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## southerngurl (May 11, 2003)

That is looking awesome!


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