# Sticky  Sale barn/Bottle calves



## topside1

Moderators if you would title this as a sticky called "Raising your first bottle calf" I feel that it would be beneficial to homesteaders....Thanks

Hi all, sure hope the follow tips can help prepare you for buying your first bottle calf. Little background, I am currently raising 15-20 calves per year. I started off raising dairy bull calves; once my confidence level rose I shifted to raising dairy heifers. The majority of my calves are purchased from a dairy auction. Enough about me, follow these auction house tips closely, this is the first step in raising a healthy calf..... Good luck,,,,,Topside

*The Auction House: Calf Hunting 101*

1. Have a paper and pen
2. Have a pre-written healthy calf check-list
3. Don't be intimidated by the sale barn environment
4. You *MUST* enter the calf pens to inspect the animals
5. Once in the pen use you checklist as a guide and look for the following:
a. brittle dry cord
b. check to see if youâre looking at a heifer or bull calf
c. look into its eyes for brightness/alertness
d. good vision out of both eyes
e. does it walk correctly
f. good broad standard size nose/snout
g. make sure it wants to suck on your hand
h. if it poops the dropping should be mushy, not liquid
i. if it's tail is *WET* from poop, pick another calf
j. dried poop on tail is ok, clean tail is best
k. rub your hands all over the animal feeling for abnormalities
l. some calves may have a lump on their necks (usually heifers) from farm vaccinations
m. don't buy any calves that are coughing or struggling to stand
n. write down (4) numbers of the calves your interested in buying.

*The Auction Begins: Stress Level Rises*

1. Stick with your calf numbers or you will be sorry
2. If you ignored my list written above, you will be sorry
3. You will only get what you pay for, bring extra money and spend it. 
4. Once you have won the bid and own your first calf, pay up, load up and head out, no delays. Stress is the #1 killer of calves.
5. Buying a cheap calf will only haunt you and end up costing you more in grief and supplies.
6. Only buy one calf. It does not need a friend; you will be its barnyard friend.
7. Donât let anyone tell you that calf raising is easy, be prepared.


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## topside1

Hopefully other folks will join in on this thread so that it can become a sticky. Need advice on housing, feeding, vaccinations, common illnesses, castration, disbudding, and of course more....hope you can find the time...topside


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## LittleRedHen

Most auctions will not let you check up the animals up close I don't think. We can walk overhead and peer down at the animals but we cannot go up to them and inspect them whatsoever. You just gotta have good eyes and look from 50 feet away

And personally, I think to buy two means at least you have half a chance at having a calf still in 2 weeks. I am pessimistic though as I just had to bury two jersey calves I bought at the auction 10 days ago. I have bought 5 calves at the auction this year and only one lives. The stress is really hard on them.

Btw.. I lost all four to pnemonia. One in February.. One in October and two December. Keep them dry and out of drafts. Buy a fluid feeder that has a tube on it. It is sooo useful as not all calves want to eat when they need to. Heat lamp is a good tool.


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## topside1

When I visit the sale barn I notice some bull calves sell for $10 while others sell for $60. What a big difference and in my opinion the $10 calves are high risk...Just my opinion.


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## farmergirl

I always buy them two at a time, since I keep the young calves seperate from my other cattle for several weeks. They seem to settle right in since they have a buddy with them. I figure the whole weaning/ auction barn/ new home thing is stressful enough...they don't need to be all alone, too!


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## LittleRedHen

At ours... Jersey calves go for $2.50-$5 whereas Hoelsteins go for $40-60-- Now for this threads sake... maybe you could elaborate why?


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## topside1

Here's why, the Holstein is younger than the Jersey.


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## agmantoo

LittleRedHen 
The reason is summed in one word, potential.

Barn sale calves have a lot in common with market shares on the stock market. Cheap market shares and young calves that are cheap are cheap for a reason. If you do not understand why they are cheap, you need to leave both of them alone or you are going to lose money.


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## LizD

Ok this is a 'calf ready' post right? Well we don't buy from the sale barn. We veal a couple of dairy calves every year and these are from local dairy barns. This way we have the ability to talk to the producer and make sure that the calf has sufficient colostrum etc. But sale barn or local barn, the problems could be the same. Before you buy a calf you need a few things in your medicine chest: a rectal thermometer, $12 - $14 bucks at your local drug store, a calf tubing rig, electrolytes, calf bottles, injectable vitamins (like e-sel in my area), banamine or another anti-inflamitory, I keep cow aspirine on hand and also a broad specetrum antibiotic like Excenel. Problem though with an antibiotic is that they are really all geared to different infections and most dairy barns have resistance built up in their herd to one or another. Excenel and another, Nuflor will do respiratory but you should speak to your vet because she/he will know what resistance there is in the dairy barns of the area. We also know that we have coccisidiosis on the farm and so I keep cocci-boluses and also Amprol at hand. Oh and most important, a probiotic if you do have to use an antibiotic; yogort works and 'Fast track' we have found better. Ok what am I missing guys, jump in. Liz


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## gone-a-milkin

Calves having a DRY umbilical cord is VERY! important. If it is wet....that very much increases the chance that it will get sick. It is not pretty to deal with a joint-ill calf. Every calf should have its navel saturated with iodine just after birth. (even more important in summer weather) because they quickly absorb any and all bad stuff right into their systems through that pathway.


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## haypoint

The price of day old to week old calves is lowest in February and August. The extreme cold or extreme cold increases the death rate.


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## Slev

Well, one thing to consider when picking up a bottle calf at an auction is; if you're looking for a female, reconsider. A lot of times a dairy farmer will bring in a "freemartin" Something to look for would be if there are any other bucket calves in the sale barn that looks to be the same age and breed, and if they are numbered, see if the number runs consecutive, (one above or below) that calf's number, it would be a good bet that she was born a twin and her brother is in there with her. (One time I was walking in the pens and overheard the farmer who brought one in that he learned long ago to hold one back till the next week, that way people won't see them together and figure out she may be a freemartin.) 

The other tip would be to see if the auction house offers a vaccination shot program. Ours does, and they really promote it. From what I've seen it seems to be a good program, with best interests to raising a healthy animal. Here's a link, http://www.greenvillelivestockauction.com/gla-vacc-program.asp


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## farmmaid

Try to buy, if you can, at the farm. Here in NY, they take the Jersey bull calves out back of the barm and shoot them at birth !:grit: Our neighbor is WONDERFUL to me! He raises the calves until they are 3 weeks old, past "dangerous time", sends them home with me with 3 gallons of milk so I can gradually switch them over and charges me $25. I pick the calves up, drive 6 miles and put them in a nicely bedded stall. Have had zero problems. He even comes back when they are old enough and steers and dehorns them...free. After the second round of calves I have INSISTED on grooming his dog every 7 weeks, I have groomed for 34 years. He was very humble, did I mention how nice he is to me!
I realize that I am blessed, BUT ask around!!!!


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## myersfarm

Ok here is what I do 

I buy everything other people do not buy and I also buy everything you would buy

I buy 15 to 30 at a time ....but this is my 6 year doing this

A sale barn calf and a home bught calf are two totally different animals treated the same way the sale barn will die with a sale barn calf you have hours not days as a farm raised calf you have


I put 5 calves in a pen thats 5 calfs that usually cost me and average of $150 if i raise 3 of the 5 I make lots of money if get lucky and raise 4 of 5 then i really make a lot of money on that pen....I also buy the highest calfs at the sale barn those sell for a average of $400 put them in pen of 5 if I raise all 5 then I really make money on that pen ...

my usual average on the price of calves is $260 a calf thats the price I have in the LIVE CAlFS thats like buying 10 for $250 thats $2500 if I lost 2 then the average is $312

the best time to buy calfs is from October to January during the holidays when nobody wants to feed calfs on Christmas day Thanksgiving or New Years day


I give a shot of 1 cc batamine and 2 cc of LA200 when I put them in my trailer..as most time they have a 6 hour trip before they get to my house

I feed colostrum the first meal home then i feed Milk Replacer for the first 3 days then go to my Jersey Milk gradually

What you have to learn is what you have when you unload form the trailer

who needs what Calfs are like kids they can not tell you only show you they feel bad....I set out there every day for a hour watching the calfs see who is the last to the milk bar if the calfs swap on being last they get a shot

never believe that they will get better believe they will die in the night as they will

the way the coat on a calf lays tells me a lot about whats going on with the calf

A calf that cleans n it own coat does not need anything one that does not will die very fast


A calf when it sucks holds it's head high will be sick soon

A calf that does not meet you at the gate will be sick soon

A calf will die before you can go buy and get back with what you need so have it on hand now.


just my 2 cents 


I have 31 on milk right now next week will be down to 20 on milk and be buying more
tjm


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## Allen W

myersfarm what kind of calves are you buying? Dairy calves or beef calves, babys or slightly older calves pulled off the cow at the sale barn. Why the extra step of giving them milk replacer then switching to jersy milk?

I agree with how your handling them. There is no time to lose with a baby calf.


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## myersfarm

I only raise dairy heifers any dairy breed 7 days old or less last year I think it was 93 calfs I sold 60 at 400 lbs. and still have 33 left will sell in June


stress is the reason I give MR to the calfs the first few feedings the less change I can do the better I am sure most dairys feed calves MR or since most of my calves I buy are holstiens ...holstien milk ..... thats a big jump from MR or Holstien milk to jersey milk ......so I try to give them something they are use to.. then after they settle in they can handle the jersey milk

I also seem to be able count the days after I get them home on day 3 or day 10 you really need to spend some time with the calfs thats when every thing shows up that they might have picked up at the sale barn


tjm


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## Key

OK, gentlemen (and ladies?), in your experience is the "tubing" they do on heifer calves at the auction reliable? I asked the auction worker once if he trusts the test, and he looked skeptical. I thought one time my vet told me that the heifers need to be a certian age to be checked to see if they are or are not free martins. 
I love this thread as we raise sometimes holstein bull calves and there are some tricks to the trade. Some calves we just can't keep alive, but they are often the ones (as suggested above) that I knew better than to buy in the first place.
When the auction workers check the navel for the veal buyers, are they checking if it is wet or are they checking for hardness/softness? Veal buyers often ask the ring guys to do that around here. I like when the veal buyers don't want the calf as that means lower prices for me 
We do have access to the animals ahead of time, so that is nice to scout out obvious problems or good choices.


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## agmantoo

myersfarm, since you raise only heifers that explains the prices you are having to pay for the calves. My neighbors are in the dairy business. I notice that they raise their calves in individual huts and everyone here groups there calves from what I read. Is there a reason for grouping or individual huts? Additionally, how frequent do you feed the new calves that are on milk and how much milk at each feeding? I have always felt that a hungry calf was a healthy calf and that often calves are killed by kindness as new calf owners want to "treat" their animals to the best and the most. Your thoughts please.


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## myersfarm

I will only buy at a place that tubes I trust 100% the tube being right on a calf that does NOT pass... as in a other board only way to check for sure is a blood test.....but if they pass the probe I have never had one that did not pass the vet....not sure they will pass the blood test or if they will breed.... why I also sell at 400 pounds...



I put in pens of 5 because I use Milk bars that have 6 teats and also I have these building







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I feed twice a day at 9 in morning and 8 at night that way they get there bellys full before it gets cold

I feed as much as I can get into them starting at 1 / 2 gallon a day for holstiens or jerseys and crosses get 3 pints a feeding to them...I milk cows and I do not push my cows milk cost me 30 cents a gallon to make so I can feed more they get 64 gallons before I wean on average so $20 to $30 for the milk bill


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## topside1

Another worthwhile tip I forgot to mention is: purchase some of the last calves off the cattle trailers, they just left their farm and have had little exposure to sale barn sicknesses. Also watch how the owner un-loads the calves, meaning with a kind heart or with no heart....Topside


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## Madsaw

Great thread here Topside. Evne though we do not buy calves. I will give my penny's worth.
First off like most said have meds on hand before hand. Pencillin, pnuemonia specific injectable, sulfa based drug and a coccidiastat.
If your in a climate that has severe weather changes in temp have good housing. In real cold climate a calf coat does wonders. We use coats even in cold housing inside.
I will add more with time
Bob


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## 65284

Good info Topside. I have another thing to add, as silly as it sounds, make sure you have a bidder's number before the auction starts. Although it would seem obvious a person needs a number, I have seen a lot of folks at auctions bid on and win things and when asked for their number didn't have one. Delays things, the crowd dislikes it and auctioneers absolutely hate it.


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## topside1

Thanks 65284, I wrote the thread in hopes that it helps someone. If the thread helps only a few owners and calves then it was surely worth the time. You also have a good point, get your bidding number and enjoy the show....Topside


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## francismilker

Good Thread Topside!

I'd like to jump in here as well. Although I don't raise the huge numbers you and Myersfarm produce, I usually raise twenty or so per year and have had pretty good success. 

I can't reiterate enough your thoughts on calf selection and the things you mentioned to look for. 
Here's my methods:
-pick out the calf(s) that I'm interested in prior to the sale. (if I don't get there in time to preview the calves, I don't buy calves PERIOD!)
-win the bid, load the calves, and head toward the homestead ASAP.
(one note: As I'm loading the calves, I give them all a 3cc shot of Baytril.)

Now, I'd like to add my preventative measures for once the calf is at home and in the pen. 

-I don't immediately stick a bottle in their mouth.(as is usually the first thing a new calf buyer does out of sympothy for the begging, crying calf.)
It's important for first time bottle calf raisers to realize the feeding instructions on the MR bag are the volume feeding rate for a healthy, normal sized calf with their feet on the ground good and a clean bill of health. A calf will keep on sucking the bottle until they are completely and totally filled to the brim which most always ends in the scours.
-The first feeding they get is a 1qt bottle of water and electrolytes. 
-8 hours later, they get 1-1/2 qts of MR and electrolytes mixed 50/50.
-12 hours later, 1-1/2 qts of MR 75% and electrolytes 25%.
-12 hours later, 1-1/2 qts of MR
(this gradual introduction to MR or fresh cow's milk is only if there is no apparent signs of scours.)
-If I do see signs of scours, I treat it with electrolytes solely. (remember, yesterday the calf got a shot of baytril as a preventative measure against pnuemonia, shipping fever, and scours.)
-Too often, a first time calf raiser goes to the local feedstore only to have someone sell them a bottle of scour boluses (which do have their place) and starts shoving them down the animal's throat.
-Most of the time, what we call scours isn't actually scours. It's just loose bowels and should be treated with liquid replacement. 
-The boluses usually contain oxytetracyclene which is a broad spectrum antibiotic and the natural bacteria in the animal's digestive sytem is compromised. (after all, when our children come home from school with diarea or upset stomach we don't start giving them antibiotics until the symtoms persist or we see the need for medical treatment as prescribed from a doctor. We treat them to 7-up or gatorade to keep them from getting dehydrated.)
Remember, if you see liquid out, you need liquid going back in. 
-If you even think that the calf's bowels are getting too loose, start feeding them 4 small feedings instead of 2 larger ones. I realize this might be impossible for someone who works a day job but do the best you can to keep the animal hydrated 24/7 without over or under feeding.
-I always keep feed, (sweet grain consisting of oats and corn is my personal choice) water, and hay out to the calf at all times.
-The calf is getting all the fat and protein they need from the MR or fresh milk so I see no need of buying an expensive calf starter right at the start.
-I always separate the water and feed buckets far enough apart that the calf isn't able to dribble feed into their water bucket when switching from one bucket to another. 
-I always thoroughly clean the water and feed buckets daily. (all the left over feed, (and there will be a lot of it for the first week or so) gets fed to the chickens.) Wet, nasty feed will sour in the bucket and could help the critter to get sick.
-I do the same with the hay. What doesn't get consumed gets discarded.
-AWAYS, ALWAYS, ALWAYS look for signs of dehydration. ( I like to see the calf with a moist nose and very alert eyes and perky ears)
-a kind of sick, lethergic calf before you leave for work can be a near death unreversible calf when you get home!
-Most generally, after about one to two weeks, a calf that is eating and drinking well becomes another one of the chores and requires very little more than dropping a bottle in it's hanger and coming back to pick it up once it's finished. The first few days are the most critical. Just keep a good eye on them. 
-Once a calf is totally cleaning up the amount of feed that would equal 3-4% of their body weight daily and eating hay and drinking water I wein them. This consist of one week of 1/2 the volume of MR and then I go to one week of once a day bottle at 1/2 volume. After this, I quit them cold turkey and turn them into larger pens with like sized calves that have access to water, hay, and minerals free choice. 
-I hope this helps and I'm quite certain there are other ways to get the job done. It's just what works for me.


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## topside1

Super Info Francismilker, hope the mods cut and paste some of this knowledge into a sticky, as a quick reference....Plus anyone else please join in....Topside


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## arabian knight

I don't go to an action place to buy my Jersey bull calves, I go to a farmer just a few miles from me and for 40 to 50 bucks I can get a nice healthy already eating grain at 6 days old, and have a wonderful Jersey steer in 2 years well not really 2 years, I like to send them at about 16 months and the steaks are oh soooooo tender, and with over 400 pounds of beef in the freezer at a time, is just fine, with me. I don't buy Holsteins because of their price and also in LESS then a year ready to butcher is just tooo much meat for me, so I will stick to the Jerseys which is sweater to eat then Holstein anyways.


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## dosthouhavemilk

Bumping this up


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## topside1

Thanks Roseanna, I sent a PM to Ken regarding a sticky...


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## Farmerwilly2

I don't know from the different shots ya'll give your calves. we've been lucky with ours I guess. We were real careful to keep they're stall clean. The Mrs. made sure to boil the new nipples in a little sugar water before she used them. She uses a little black molasses on her fingers and then the nipples to get them to sucking. We started off with a diluted mr and a taste of molasses and then a bottle with warm water and molasses for the first few days. We also go with several smaller feedings the first few days and by the end of the week we're at twice a day, full mr. We like to handle them a lot when they're little, they seem to be less skittish if we touch or brush them while we feed.


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## Farmsteader

Yep FarmerWilly, that tough Love Stuff, really works for us too. We got lucky on our first Jersey Cross, she lived and looks great now 9 weeks old, i am sure we can improve on the expense side, this was a learning curve lesson. We like the process of seeing them grow , and these heifers are so sweet, don't understand how some people mistreat them at Auctions etc. We are not PETA folks but no reason to abuse these gifts from Heaven, we are entrusted with them for good use . Thanks TopSide for Starting this thread , great info needed .Would like to see some Holistic opinions on treating calves, we mix Western and Herbal ,Homeopathic, -- Slippery elm bark powder with Yogurt has worked well for Scours mixed in the MR-(milk replacer)- we had to give our's a shot as well and probotics which helped our calf's digestion -making them ,"Want to Live", as our Vet stated using Betamine with B-12- helped ours pull out of lethargic conditiion-perked her up - the attention we gave her tamed her as well. I am sure having full time jobs would be difficult, without someone to watch the Calves- its a full time job , if you want to do it right.



Farmerwilly2 said:


> I don't know from the different shots ya'll give your calves. we've been lucky with ours I guess. We were real careful to keep they're stall clean. The Mrs. made sure to boil the new nipples in a little sugar water before she used them. She uses a little black molasses on her fingers and then the nipples to get them to sucking. We started off with a diluted mr and a taste of molasses and then a bottle with warm water and molasses for the first few days. We also go with several smaller feedings the first few days and by the end of the week we're at twice a day, full mr. We like to handle them a lot when they're little, they seem to be less skittish if we touch or brush them while we feed.


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## lasergrl

what are the pros and cons of medicated all milk protein replacer? TSC has 25# bags of non medicated and 50# bags of medicated. It would be nice to get the 50# bags.


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## Cotton Picker

The following is an interesting article on calf care. It contains some very good points.

http://www.rd1.com/web/content?in_section=10&in_item=379&in_page=5814


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## topside1

Cotton Picker, that's an excellent article...thanks for posting.


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## Cotton Picker

You are most welcome Topside. 

I thought that I would add this from the thread you started in regards to the article.

Here's another interesting link for a DIY calf feeder. It has the McCarville contact info, as well as, another place in Missouri.

http://www.ibiblio.org/farming-conne...y/nzbarrel.htm

Oh, and here's another article by some guy named Ken Scharabok..... (That name sounds familiar for some reason)

http://www.thefreelibrary.com/Bucket......-a083553792


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## randiliana

Chart for Scoring Respiratory Diseases 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Found this chart to be quite interesting, and possibly very useful. 

http://www.vetmed.wisc.edu/dms/fapm/...ring_chart.pdf

I would have to say, that if a calf is at a level 3 for any symptom described, that I would be treating it, though. Not just if it had a total score of 5 or more....

Here are a couple more sites with a TON of calf raising information

http://www.atticacows.com/orgMain.asp?sid=

http://www.calfnotes.com/


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## lasergrl

this article from the above mentioned website was of particular interest:

http://www.calfnotes.com/pdffiles/CN138.pdf

I just read in the AVMA journal that there was a study done on adult dogs given bovine colostrum and they had markedly improved stool quality and digestion. Why wouldnt calves benefit as well? Turns out they do!


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## JK-Farms

jw the prices on fed out jersys, in the diffrent areas.
THX: James K


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## topside1

Hi all, here's the short version. Bought my last group of calves and as usual feed them goats milk, except this time I mixed 100% milk replacer with the goatsâ milk into 50/50 blend. Well here is what I learned: All four calves had very loose poo for the first seven days. Of course I blamed it on traveling stress, vaccinations, anti-biotic precautionary shot and whatever else I could think of. The four never had scours, just very loose poop. Finally I couldn't take it any longer and shifted to straight goatsâ milk. Well overnight all four hardened up and life has been grand ever since the change. Word to the wise don't feed this volatile mixture. The calves will thrive, but just don't stand behind them...In fact I named one "Squirt" for obvious reasons. I will copy and paste this learning experience onto the bottle calf sticky, without photos....Hope all is going well in your neck of the woods,,,,Topside


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## kmorisett

I can't remember who asked about the checking of the abdomen/cord area of calves in the auction ring while bidding, but I wanted to throw in my 2 cents worth. At the auction that I went to, a few bidders asked for the guy in the ring to check the calves for umbilical hernias that he thought he might have seen from the stands. Maybe that is what they were checking for in your instance as well.


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## topside1

Homesteaders: if you're thinking about buying your first calf soon how about investing a little extra money and purchase one of these. Best investment you could ever make for you and your special calf. This item only cost $10 more than a standard bottle and nipple, plus it will last forever. Just thought I'd pass on my opinion...Topside

I buy mine through Valley Vet....$21.95 for the one nipple milk bar.


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## Trisha in WA

topside I couldn't agree more! I bought a 5 nipple version of the same bucket (I bought 2 calves) and I LOVE IT!!! Best thing ever invented for feeding calves. The single nipple buckets you can get at the feed store are no where near the quality of a Milk Bar!
Trisha


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## lasergrl

The milk bar has eliminated alot of pneumonia I was seeing. With the valve buckets they would asperate alot


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## topside1

What is calf diphtheria?
There are two forms of calf diphtheria. The most common is an acute oral (mouth) infection, usually seen in calves less than 3 months old. The second form is usually seen in older calves and affects the larynx (or voice-box), Both forms are caused by the bacteria Fusobacterium necrophorum, which also causes foul-in-the foot and liver abscesses in older cattle.

Clinical Signs
Oral form 
Initial presenting sign may just be a swollen cheek 
Calf may be otherwise bright and active with no temperature 
Examination of the inside of the mouth shows a foul-smelling ulceration and swelling of the cheek 
Temperature may be normal at the start
If untreated more signs develop: 
High temperature 
Coughing 
Loss of appetite and depression 
Difficulty breathing, chewing and swallowing 
Swollen pharyngeal region 
Deep ulcers on the tongue, palate, and inside of cheeks 
Pneumonia

Usually only a few calves in a batch are infected though outbreaks can occur where hygiene is poor

Laryngeal form: 
Coughing : Moist and painful 
High temperature 
Loss of appetite and depression 
Difficult breathing, chewing and swallowing 
Pneumonia
Diagnosis
The diagnosis of calf diphtheria is usually based on the clinical signs. 
For one-off cases rule out other problems such as BVD and foreign bodies by getting your vet to do a thorough oral 
examination 
Bacteriology can be also useful. 
A post-mortem can confirm the ulcerative nature of the disease, particularly in calves with the laryngeal form
Treatment
Early prompt treatment is important as early treatment is much more effective 
Separate the infected animals and isolate them 
Antibiotics and pain killers are effective in most cases 
The laryngeal form is much more resistant to treatment. Get veterinary advice
Prevention
Fusobacterium necrophorum is a normal inhabitant of cattle intestines and the environment. Under unhygienic conditions, infection may be spread on feeding troughs and dirty milk buckets. Some of the contributory factors for occurrence of this disease include abrasions in the oral mucosa (such as those from erupting molar teeth), poor nutrition and the presence of other diseases present in young calves.

If animals are closely confined, the spread of this infectious disease can be prevented by thoroughly cleaning and disinfecting of all calf feeders. Young calves must be examined daily to identify early stages of the disease.


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## electrikat

We bought 5 bucket babies at once from the auction here in West. Very sad little babies. We bought the colustrum from the feed store but if they don't get it within 24 hours it's just bad news. Two died from scours/dehydration within a week. The other three made it to about 3 months but we couldn't get our herd of angus to accept them so the babies just made their own herd. Over the next month or so two of them dissappeared. We couldn't keep them out of the oat field and they had the scours all the time. We think the coyotes finally got the two weaker ones. We ended up with one baby that made it to market weight so we could sell him. We paid 65 dollars for 5 calves plus milk, bottles, medicated feeds, etc. and we made right at 500 from him when we sold him. I figure we might have broke even by the time we wrote off the deceased ones on our taxes. Bottle babies are not for the faint hearted, the busy or the broke! Please consider it very carefully.


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## topside1

Tips on handling two types of lump jaw in cattle.

Bacteria are often present in the mouth of cattle. As a result, anything puncturing the mouth tissue can open the way for infection, which can lead to "lump jaw."

According to Salmon, ID, veterinarian Robert Cope, there are two kinds of lump jaw. Each is caused by two different types of bacteria and require different treatment.

The most common are soft tissue infections that are relatively easy to treat. Sometimes, these abscesses break and drain on their own. Usually, however, they must be lanced, drained and disinfected before they'll heal properly.

Another type of lump jaw is caused by infection in the bone, and it's difficult to halt, Cope says. Usually, it results in having to sell or butcher the animal.

Bony lump jaw tends to occur in two- to three-year-old cattle, says Pete South, a retired veterinarian and professor at University of Idaho.

A Common Beginning Both forms of lump jaw actually begin in the same manner, says Cope. A break in the tissue surface allows bacteria to enter - which can happen if a cow eats or chews on a sharp stick or even a pointed blade of stiff grass. A sharp seed may poke into the side of the mouth. Ulcers caused by BVD virus can open the way for bacteria, which can then enter from feed or soil.

Ingesting dirt can also play a part, introducing certain bacteria that can begin an infection if there's a break in the tissues.

The Soft Tissue Variety The most common form of lump jaw is caused by Actinobacillus bacteria. It occurs in the soft tissues, forming an abscess, often along the lower jaw.

"Actinobacillus is a gram-negative bacteria routinely present in soil," says Cope. "Once the bacteria enter the mouth tissues they immediately begin to grow and stimulate an inflammatory response from the cow, resulting in formation of an abscess."

Treating with an injectable antibiotic generally isn't useful, Cope says. The abscess is a pocket of infection surrounded by a relatively thick wall of connective tissue. This wall prevents the infection from spreading through the body, but also keeps antibiotics in the blood stream from reaching the infective organism.

The best treatment is to lance the abscess and flush it out with strong (7%) iodine, he says. One or two treatments will usually suffice to cure the problem. He recommends waiting until the infection comes to a head with a soft spot in the lump. If you lance it too early, it will not yet have formed a drainable pus pocket.

The lump may be either hard or soft, but moves if pressed firmly with your hand, he says. It's not attached to the bone. Inserting a needle (16 ga. or larger) into the lump is another diagnostic check. If it's an abscess, pus will come out the needle or be present in the needle when you remove it.

If pus is present, lance the abscess at its lowest point (with scalpel or sharp knife) to allow drainage. After squeezing out the pus, flush the abscess with tincture of iodine (7% solution) to remove the rest.

This type of abscess usually heals quickly once it's opened and drained, unless the drain hole seals over before all infection is out. Then, it must be opened and flushed again.

Bony Lump Jaw Another bacteria, Actinomyces bovis (a gram-positive bacteria that also lives in soil), can infect the mouth and cause bony lump jaw. The condition is called Actinomycosis.

The bacteria enters a mouth wound similar to Actinobacillus, says Cope, but infects the bone if the tissue break is deep. This infection may also become established through the dental sockets where the teeth are set into the jaw, adds South. This is why the condition is common in young cattle whose permanent teeth are coming in. Two-year-olds are prime candidates.

The infection sets in the jawbone, creating a painless bony enlargement, usually at the level of the central molars. Some enlarge swiftly within weeks, while others grow slowly over months.

The bony swellings are very hard. They're also immobile because they're part of the bone. In later stages, the area may be painful and interfere with chewing.

This type of lump may break through the skin eventually and discharge through one or more openings, oozing a little pus or some sticky honey-like fluid containing tiny hard yellow granules, South says.

Lancing is of no value, since the lump is composed of infected bone and can't be drained. Attempting to drain this lesion can be harmful because opening this area to the outside may allow other disease organisms to enter, resulting in further secondary infection, South adds.

South says teeth in the affected jawbone of a bony lump may become misaligned, making chewing painful and thus causing weight loss.

In severe cases, the infection spreads to softer tissues and involves the muscles and lining of the throat. Extensive swelling can interfere with breathing. An animal may become so thin that humane destruction is necessary, though it may take a year or more to get this bad. If the infection spreads to the esophagus and stomach, digestion becomes impaired, causing diarrhea (passing undigested food particles on through) or bloat, says South.

Treatment Is Difficult This bony lump is easy to diagnose but hard to treat. Since it's a bone infection, "it must be treated from the inside out, via the bloodstream that serves the bone," says Cope. The usual treatment is to put sodium iodide into the jugular vein - a treatment that may need repeating in 10 days.

"Sodium iodide is merely iodine in a salt form, allowing us to get the iodine to the site of the infection via the bloodstream," says Cope.

This treatment isn't always successful in halting the bone infection, however. The animal may eventually have to be culled; the lump may stop growing for awhile and you might get one or two more calves from the cow, then it starts again.

Iodides given intravenously may halt the infection if given early (before the lump gets large) but many cases are stubborn, says Cope. Some lumps reduce a little in size once infection is stopped, but never go away completely.

The IV injections must be given carefully and slowly or the animal will go into shock. If you're not experienced in giving IVs, have your vet do it.

Treatment And Abortion When treating either type of lump, remember that both iodine and the iodide solution can cause abortion, Cope says.

"We often try to postpone treatment of bony lump jaw during late pregnancy, hoping to save both the cow and calf. But if the cow is failing or not due to calve for some time, we'll usually treat and take our chances with the possibility of abortion," he says.

In the case of soft-tissue abscesses in pregnant females, Cope recommends flushing with a mix of nolvasan and water.

You can also use "green wonder," says Heidi Smith, a veterinarian in Terrebonne, OR. This recipe originated at Purdue University, she says, and is a mix of nolvasan and water, furacin solution and hydrogen peroxide (1/6 nolvasan, 1/6 water, 1/3 furacin, and 1/3 hydrogen peroxide).

If a cow is pregnant, play it safe and use this type of flushing solution instead of iodine, Smith says. The mix is effective for abscesses or cleaning dirty wounds, she says, because "the peroxide's foaming action carries the disinfectant into all the nooks and crannies of the wound or abscess."


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## bigmudder77

i have been feeding all my calves milk replacer since i got them (4-6 days old) 

i get the 50lb bag for $37 out the door a bag (i think its 16% fat 20% protien)

and none of mine had really loose poop it has always been pretty solid 

and they were all fed two 2qt bottles twice a day since i have got them 

ya some people will say thats too much but i think getting them on a good start helps them alot more than just giving them one bottle twice a day 

and i always have 2nd cutting hay, grain and fresh water replaced every night in there with all the calves 

also get them on the bucket as soon as you can saves time and has them learn to drink the water faster 

now i had chickens in with all the calves and they showed them how to drink out of the bucket and eat the grain i guess cause i seen them drinking water out of the bucket and at least starting on eatting the grain so i put a bucket in there that night and they drank it right down 

ya buckets with nipples on them saves time


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## danll

Slev said:


> Well, one thing to consider when picking up a bottle calf at an auction is; if you're looking for a female, reconsider. A lot of times a dairy farmer will bring in a "freemartin" Something to look for would be if there are any other bucket calves in the sale barn that looks to be the same age and breed, and if they are numbered, see if the number runs consecutive, (one above or below) that calf's number, it would be a good bet that she was born a twin and her brother is in there with her. (One time I was walking in the pens and overheard the farmer who brought one in that he learned long ago to hold one back till the next week, that way people won't see them together and figure out she may be a freemartin.)
> 
> The other tip would be to see if the auction house offers a vaccination shot program. Ours does, and they really promote it. From what I've seen it seems to be a good program, with best interests to raising a healthy animal. Here's a link, http://www.greenvillelivestockauction.com/gla-vacc-program.asp



I was noticing that you are calling a "twin calf" a "freemartin". Is that correct? If so, why are farmers calling it that, and why do they want to keep them apart?

Thanks so much,
Danll


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## ozark_jewels

danll said:


> I was noticing that you are calling a "twin calf" a "freemartin". Is that correct? If so, why are farmers calling it that, and why do they want to keep them apart?
> 
> Thanks so much,
> Danll


Heifers that are twins with a bull, are *usually* sterile, only good for butcher. These are called freemartins.
A less-than-honest farmer would bring in a heifer he knew was a twin to a bull and by not telling anyone, hope to get full heifer price for her, though she is actually not worth more than a bull calf.


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## sdnzero

hello and i hope someone here can help. we got another bull calf on friday and they say he's about 3 weeks old. his mom was a first time and she had like no milk when we went there to get him. we had to catch them in the field and grab him. he is eating calf feed and drinking water as well as yelling at the top of his lungs when he sees us coming to feed. He will NOT take a bottle and i have tried everything. He won't take a bottle with anything at all in it and isn't really drinking any milk at all. He is bright alert and very fiesty (no scours yet) just really small. He is a angus/brangus cross and about 100 lbs. I'm just worried without the milk he may not be getting what he needs and i'm hoping someone here might have a suggestion. We have left his milk in a bucket and while we haven't seen him eat it it is empty and he kicks it around. Any ideas are helpful but until then we'll just keep doing what we are doing.


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## randiliana

OK, even though they may have been starving, most calves do not transition easily to the bottle. The milk tastes different, and most nipples do not resemble or feel like a cows teat. If you are very worried about him, you could tube him, but I don't reccomend that if you want to get him onto a bottle. And at this age, yes, he does still need milk.

It sounds like he may already be drinking his milk, if this is the case, then you are good to go, don't worry about getting him to suck a bottle. But, first you have to make sure he is actually drinking it and not just spilling it out onto the ground. Or put it somewhere that he cannot spill it. You need to watch what he does from a distance, so he is not distracted by you. If he is drinking it, he will already have learned what is in the bucket and you shouldn't have to watch long before he drinks. I'd actually be surprised if he is drinking it, but stranger things have happened.

Here is how I get an older calf onto the bottle. First off, back him into a corner, then straddle his shoulders, squeezing his neck between your legs, and facing forward. Now, you bend over his head, and stick the nipple into his mouth. If you can find them the soft rubber/latex nipples that fit onto a pop bottle work the best or a lamb nipple will work too. Once the nipple is in his mouth, wrap your hand/s around his muzzle so he can't spit it out, and so you can work his mouth on it for him. Having a nipple with an x cut into it works better than one that only has holes. Squeeze his mouth in a way that imitates him sucking, you won't be exact, but close counts here. Tip his head up (kinda like you are hugging him), so he pretty much has to swallow, and sooner or later the little light bulb should come on. Some calves are easy, some are hard, and you will run into some that won't have anything to do with a bottle at all.


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## Allen W

sdnzero
He might still take a bottle, sometimes it can take them several days to take the bottle. He also might not have been getting much milk if any and with access to starter feed just not missing it. If he is eating starter feed good, hopefully a good quality one with milk products in it, he should be all right.


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## Patty0315

Try putting his milk in a pail to drink . He is already drinking water from a pail .


Patty


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## sdnzero

well he is eating quite a bit of starter feed and we started added some of his milk to it. After about 4 hours yesterday he flat out refuses a bottle with anything even water in it. he sucks for a little bit then quits. we are going to keep trying and he as far as we can tell isn't drinking much if any milk out of the pail. He is strong as an ox , no temp, wet nose, eats hay and grass, and acts just like a little cow. No scours either at this point. Like i said before his mom had like no milk so maybe he's used to it. The guy we got him from wasn't even sure how old he was but swears he's atleast 3 maybe even 4 monthes old. Yesterday afternoon we let him out with the older calfs just about 3monthes old and totally weaned and he seemed happier. We'll just keep trying i guess.


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## topside1

Sounds like he's 3-4 months old, not 3-4 weeks old. Don't bother feeding him any milk he's ready for your pasture. What you need to do find out is he is 4 weeks or 4 months old. The way you describe his eating habits, well it my guess that he's 4 months old, and stronger than you think,,huh,,,..topside


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## randiliana

If he's 3-4 months old, he is more than old enough not to need any milk. 3-4 weeks he still needs milk. There is a big difference.....


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## sdnzero

yeah so needless to say we don't know how old he is.. however he broke out and went to hang out with our holsteins (who are just about 3 monthes old) and seems to made himself at home. My worry is that he is so small and at first they said like 3 weeks so.. we figure as long as he's eating drinking and playing he's fine. i'll try to post a picture of him so you guys can see.


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## eversgerd38

Hello all my name is curt and I am from pocahontas ILLINOIS and have been trying to get my hands on some bull calves in my area and for some reason we can not find any. We really do not want to buy them from the sale barn because they seem to look really sickly. If there is any one who is in the bond county area in illinois. I would really like to but about 6 to 10 of holstein bull calves for about 50 to 100.00 a for each Just got laid off and I have a farm with the right stuff I think I can do this . Thank you [email protected] or you can contact me at 618-669-2244 or 618-669-2825 And would like them to be about a week old so they no how to suckle .


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## MissyMoo

ATTENTION: Topside1, 

I need your advice please. I raised 3 calves (1 jersey and 2 holsteins - all bulls) last winter on jersey milk replacer formula and besides some scours on occasion and pepto bismol and electrolytes into them, they grew into fine calves. However, now I am getting into selling newly-weaned calves and am now using fresh pasteurized whole cows milk from the supermarket (I buy it by the gallons/cart loads, LOL) and I had great results with the jersey/holstein cross bull calf I just weaned, however I now bought 2 - 2 week old? holstein calves (1 is a heifer, 1 is a bull) and the heifer has a really watery stool as of yesterday. I gave her pepto and electrolytes and she eats well on her own. This morning she was fighting for first in line to drink her breakfast. Then she went and laid down and then stood up later and went the watery poo again. I will see how she acts tonight for the nitetime feeding.
The bull calf has liquid poo too but not quite as watery as hers. I have a buyer for her that I am supposed to deliver her to tommorrow (sunday) and the lady is going to be finishing bottle-feeding her (even though normally I sell weaned calves). I havent mentioned to her yet the diarrhea, and am not sure how to email her about it (what to say). Should I even be selling the calf while she has the diarrhea - even though she has a good appetite? 
Also I have another question: how much to feed the calves from newborns to about 4 weeks old or so? since I am using the fresh store-bought milk, I dont know if I am overfeeding or what?
They are about 2 to 3 weeks old and they are getting a total of about 10 pints of milk EACH per day (1 and 1/4 gallons per day).
is this too much or not enough? 
I'd truly appreciate any and all help from you.
I have to attend the auction (sale barn) on monday as I have an order from one person for the heifer calf for sunday and I have the bull calf already reserved for a man that also wants 7 heifer calves from me (weaned ones only). He has already sent in his deposit and he knows I am short the 7 heifer calves, so he is waiting for me to get them and wean them (any I get that arent weaned already). 
so......a waiting list......and I hope I am not in over my head.


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## topside1

That's a lot of info to digest Missy...Here's what I can tell you @ 3.00 a gallon whole milk is definitely cutting into your profit margin. Only guessing $90 per month so $180 come weaning age. Your choice of course but consider 100% milk, milk replacer. It's about 50-60 dollars a bag, and one bag is sometimes all you need. Anyway that's one point to consider. I rarely sell a un-weaned calf, mainly because they are so easy to kill if the buyer is not experienced. I've had two die in the past four years something you sure want to avoid. Jersey/Holstein calves will only be fed 2 pints week one, increase slowly to 3 pints by week 3. Around a month old I may or may not boost up to 4 pints. Yes in my opinion you are over-feeding. I would not sell a scouring calf, the runs yes scours no...Once again rarely do I sell a un-weaned calf. Raising calves is a tricky business, lots to learn. 
Hope some of my advice helps...Topside


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## MissyMoo

Thank you soooo much Topside, and of course....all advice is helpful in some way or another  
One more statement: I pay $2.18 to $2.50 per each Gallon of milk, so not as bad as $3. a gallon, however, when I used jersey milk replacer powder on my first 3 calves last winter, I paid about $84. for a 50 pound bag of the milk replacer....and the directions said give 1 bottle (4 pints) per feeding twice daily.....if I remember correctly. I think I am going to go back to the formula powder, maybe its cheaper?

another question if I may:
When you feed the 3 pints, Do you feed the 3 pints PER DAY or 3 pints PER FEEDING twice daily?

thank you.

-Theresa 
(missymoo)

(I did notice that the calves are helping themselves to the water buckets in their pen - in between feedings)


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## MissyMoo

only 2 died in the last 4 years? WOW. you are amazing! you are obviously VERY good at what you do (raising calves).
even the dairies around here seem to dump off dead calves bodies weekly. You should teach them a thing or two!


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## topside1

Missy 3 pints per feeding, twice a day. MR mixing directions are generic, and calf owners need to use common sense and adjust to calf size and experience. Also MR price has dropped dramatically over the last year. I rarely use it because I have goats and a cow too. Yes only two, luckily I have extra time to spend raising them. Keep up the good work, lots to learn though, keep asking questions....Topside


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## MissyMoo

Topside: I also have goats, but no cow. I currently have orders for 9 heifers plus several others more, but I have only one right now, so I'm on the hunt for more. I talked to that lady that I am going to sell the 1 heifer to and she is ok with me keeping the heifer calf until she has no scours....or she says I can even give her a different one instead, so thats cool. she also wants one more. AND she is going to trade me 3 - two week old bull calves for the 1 heifer calf, so I am happy about that. she said they are holsteins but one is a jersey/holstein cross. now I just have to find more heifer calves.

far as the MR goes.....I am going to switch over to it again. Thats great about the price drop. I will check and see what it runs now in this area.


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## myersfarm

shoot I would trade 7 bulls for a heifer ...bulls sell for $$10 to 15 heifers sell for $200 to $250


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## MissyMoo

not around here they dont. they only time I got a bull calf for $20. was when it was at an auction and the bull calf was tiny and skinny but already nibbling on hay (I resold him a week later for $150.....not bad).

usually I have to spend $45. to $77.50 currently for a bull calf, and the dairies either refuse to return my calls and when I do talk to them they wont sell any calves to me, they say that they take them ALL to the auctions and they are rude on the phone. 

I have only bought one heifer so far, as I prefer to deal with the bull calves, and I paid the same for her = $77.50.
so I am currently selling them for the same as I pay the same for them.

another person (in response to my online for sale ad) wrote me and asked me why I sell the bull calves for so much and the heifers for same price, well that is because I just paid the same, and since I have no idea if the heifer is breedable or not someday when she grows up......to me they are all the same. 
I sell for people to use as beef or herd sire bulls. 

I wish I could get bull calves for $10. to $15. because I can sell them just weaned for $150. to $200. (depending on how nice they look). I can also get more for jersey calves than holsteins.

I dont understand why the dairies around here arent overly excited to sell their calves to me, as I would happily pay them twice the bull calf prices you listed - per each calf.

yeah :Bawling: Maybe I should have held out for more bulls in the trade.


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## myersfarm

check out these prices sulphu springs tx...I saw the sale on the internet



Market Report
UPDATED 9/29/2009
Livestock Head Count:1510 Dairy Head Count:386 
STEERS 
UNDER 300lbs. 80-132.5 
300-400 lbs 80-116 
400-500 lbs. 72-106 
OVER 500 lbs. 70-99 
HEIFERS 
UNDER 300lbs. 70-125 
300-400 lbs. 70-104 
400-500 lbs. 70-94 
OVER 500 lbs. 68-88 
PACKER COWS 28-54.5 
PACKER BULLS 45-57.5 
STOCKER COWS 390-960 
COW/CALF PAIRS 550-990 
CALVES 3-185 
DATE OF SALE 9/28/09 
Fresh 
Good 925-1550 
Medium 600-925 
Plain 425-600 
Holstein Springers 
Good 900-1325 
Medium 700-900 
Plain 400-700 
Bull 
Breeding Age 250-550 
Small 75-250 
Bull Calves 3-75 
Heifer 
Breeding Age 550-850 
Small 250-550 
Heifer Calves 50-250 
DATE OF SALE 09/24/09 


Sulphur Springs Livestock and Dairy Auction

P.O. Box 480,
Sulphur Springs TX, 75483

Phone: 903-885-2455
or 903-885-3311
Fax: 903-885-7739

E-Mail: ssls
@sslivestockauctions.com


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## MissyMoo

My calves are doing great. I hope to get more tommorrow.
The heifer is over her scours and she seems to be very frisky and has a big appetite. I switched them to Milk Replacer numerous days ago, and they are doing very well. I just love them. I am going to miss the little buggers when they go to their new homes :Bawling:


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## MissyMoo

oh yeah, I forgot to mention that the Milk Replacer was priced at $54. (if I remember correctly) and that was for a 50 pound bag of it (20/20 gold - NOT medicated). When I raised three calves last winter I raised them on Jersey MR and it cost me $84. for a 50 pound bag of it (22/22).


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## topside1

Missy, 20/20 Gold is all I feed...Good stuff...Sounds like your getting a handle on calves...Topside


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## MissyMoo

Thanks Topside 
I was wrong about the price of the MR (the 20/20 Gold) it was only $45.75 (not $54.).
I bought 3 holstein feeder bull calves yesterday, they look to be about 4 months old?? They are very tall, but thin (1 weighed only 210, the other one 180). 2 had a bit of a cough (which of course I am treating with antibiotics and ALL of them are quarantined for now) and had mud caked in their eyes. one of those had a blue eye (I am putting eye antibiotic in their eyes tonight hoping it will clear most of it up). I have seen eye that were completely blind and way past the blue stage at being swollen and blood red and looked like they were about to burst (in one of my past goats) and within less than a month her eyes were like new. The 2 boys went right to eating alfalfa and drinking water from a bucket, and seem to be doing great - I expect they will be fine.
Then there is the #3 bull calf. He is so skinny and most likely pneumonia as well, that he could barely stand up (probably 4 foot tall or more and weighs only 160 lbs) and blind in both eyes (blue in one and half blue half brown in the other) due to infection (dried dirt stuck in his eyelashes and eyes). My guess is that some IDIOT that I would LOVE to choke, didnt even notice or care to notice or ignored the fact that he developed bad eyes, did not treat them (which is so simple), then the coughing, then the poor calf couldnt find his way to the feed and water, so he ended up severely thin, so much so that by the time I got him he was nearly dead and could barely stand up but refused to due to the fact he was scared and in pain and could not see. 
I had a horrible time dragging him - dead weight - by myself to put him in the enclosed barn (safe and nice and dry and warm in there with NO wind). I fully expected he would die by end of that night cause he was in such bad shape. A big storm (lots of wind and rain) hit hear starting last night and I knew he'd be best off in there. 
First thing, he got a shot of antibiotics and a bottle of milk replacer. I put the nipple in his mouth and he drank it like it was yesterday that he was last on the bottle, even though you could tell that he had been weaned for quite some time. Then I went back in later in the night and put eye antibiotics in his tearing eyes. Then this morning, I went out there and he was walking around bumping into things while looking for me as he heard me come in the barn. I gave him a big bottle of formula and a big flake of alfalfa and he drank the milk and was enjoying eating his hay when I left. I also put in there a bucket of water. I expect he will gain sight back in at least one of his eyes - which is just wonderful, I also noticed his coughing is already down to only a couple coughs while drinking the milk (he sucks it in too fast). Noone that seen this calf now would say he would make it, however I truly believe that he will be fine. 
Is there anything else that you think I should do for him? oh, and I also gave him a dose of vitamin paste for calves/cows. I figured he needed it - since being so thin. He is nothing but skin and bones. literally a skeleton, yet he has an appetite like my pigs, LOL. I figure that if he was of normal weight for his size, he would weigh twice what he weighs now at 160....maybe 300 lbs? I don't know. I want to eventually deworm him but am not sure when to be doing that. I figured now was too soon since he is already on antibiotics and I don't want to overload his system.


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## SLD Farm

Missy Moo...Just wondering how the #3 Calf did? Where you able to save him? Hope so.

I purchased 3 bottle calves this year for the 1st time. Holsteins. 2 were in good shape but one was very poor and lethargic. I was able to pull him out of it, but I wasn't sure if he was going to come around or not for a while.


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## eatonfamilyheif

Im trying to raise a few heifer calves buying them from sale barns and not having great luck. Ive read alot of the post on here and have gotten some really great info and want to think yall for the pointers. I have one question and the answer may already be on here, the question is i have a heifer calve that is starting to cough and at times it looks like her belly is jumping and now today she has a swoolon spot on here cheek what should i do? Shes about 4weeks old. thanks


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## agmantoo

When, if ever, was this heifer wormed? If never wormed I would do it ASAP.


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## myersfarm

i send you a pm


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## MissyMoo

I lost every one of those weaned feeder calves - every last one :Bawling: and of course ALL of my money invested, plus lots of physical labor hauling the dead bodies and smelling them for weeks later. they all died within a couple days of each other. one of the seemingly not to bad sick ones took a turn for the worse and died first (regardless of medications), then the totally blind really sick one died. then the last one hung on for a few days longer then it too died. :grit:
I havent bought any calves since - weaned or not. 
I never knew they were sick until seeing them close up which wasnt until they loaded them into my van, so I learned something.....no more buying ANY calf until I see it first. if I cant see it or they wont let me, NO SALE! 
if one could just go back in time - wow - wouldnt that be nice. it seems that if it is sick enough to need antibiotics, its best to just kill it straight away and go on about your life. if the calf coughs or gasps or wont eat or has slime coming out its nose, its sick and I am not going near it.
one thing I have noticed is that if I get a healthy calf then it never gets sick here, but if I get a sick one it will surely die, so all in all I learned my lesson, and now I feel bad because I miss that darn blind extremely sick big calf. :Bawling:


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## MissyMoo

funny thing is I thought that calf would be ok. he got better and then all the sudden got worse really quickly and died. weird. 

anyway, next time I am sticking with newborn healthy calves. I have much better luck with them.


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## eatonfamilyheif

I have a question, other than tubing a dairy heifer to ck for it being a free-martin is there any other signs that can be seen visual? The reason im asking is theres a guy that has 3 holstein heifers he said there weined and way around 150 to 220 and i want to make sure there not frees. Any help would be appreciated. thanks Rusty


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## Madsaw

MissyMoo,
Just curious as to what froms of antibiotics you used? Sounds to me all them calves had pnuemonia in a bad way. I have also seen it to cause them to go blue eyed too. Micotil,Nuflur, and draxxin would have all been great choices here. Also a side of a sulfa drug to help too.
Bob


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## MissyMoo

Madsaw, 
yeah I kinda figured they had pneumonia as well.
I got a calf once that had a touch of it and penicillin worked (just a couple shots of it) then all gone. I've even given only penicillin to one of my past goats that had SEVERE pneumonia and everyone told me she would for sure die, and she got well. she gained weight and had a baby and I had her for months before selling her. prior to that, she was a sick skeleton that had to get down on her knees to be able to get enough air in her lungs just to keep alive when I got her from the auction/sale barn. 
I've used LA-200 on goats and penicillin and have had mixed results (either 1 works or the other works or none work), so I used penicillin on the calves and then LA-200 on one of them, however nothing seemed to even make a dent in it. Might as well as been giving them nothing at all. I've never used the antibiotics you mentioned but I am assuming they are from a vet. I am not a vet, therefore it would cost hundreds of dollars here for me to have a vet come here and check out the cows and give them medicine (I have called the vet before to get pricing), and from me hearing others on here doing just that only to see the calves dead anyway.....I was not going to or able to spend that kind of money. Now, I figure if they are that bad off, I am moving onto the next calves, cause I have no hope they will survive if they have it more than just a minor case of pneumonia. 
I hate to say it, but I am a low-income, hard-working & single female - new to all this farming stuff (which I dearly love but I have only had livestock for about 1 1/2 or so years now), and I would rather lose the approx. $200. I lost in purchase prices and medications than lose hundreds more than that just to see them die anyway. Now that I look back, I think a smart Veterinarian wouldve told me to put the poor things to sleep. 
I believe those 3 calves were left sick way too long, and then put under ALOT of stress prior to my getting them settled here (I'd like to choke the jerk that let them get to that condition - it shouldve been his/her's job to put to sleep those poor calves). 
the poor things suffered GREATLY  and I will NEVER see calves go through that again. I feel as if I prolonged their misery. the 2nd calf that died was 210 lbs and seemed to just have a very occasional cough.....like once every half hour or something and still I gave him antibiotics and then he got sicker and sicker and died anyway. they must've had some severe strain of sickness because it took them down HARD. the sickness was not satisfied until it killed everything that was alive.  
It was definitely a learning experience for me thats for sure, but it hurts because I value the lives of others (animals and people) and feel really bad about losing them.


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## Madsaw

Missy,
If you read some of my post it will give you a idea as to teh routine I use when dealing with pneumonia. Of the 3 drugs I always leave Micotil to be used last. This is a very good drug, but very dangerous to humans. There is so many strains of pneumonia out there now days the common penicillin will not even slow it down. With draxxin its only 1.1cc per hundred weight. Which a vet will sell you a dose per calf when you need it. Which should be under $10. Nuflur is a older drug and you use more cc's and retreat in 3 days still will fall into the unser $10 for a 200 calf. Its been so long since I have used Micotil that I will not even touch base on the cost or the amount. Also a bottle of Sustain3 calf boluse for the sulfa. Alot of times you can just get by by giving the Sustain 3. The S3 can be gotten at a farm supply store. Which I would say if you buy any calfsits always good to have them on hand just incase.
Bob


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## francismilker

I'm a pretty large fan of baytril being the "cure-all" drug for calves! Seems to work good for me no matter what the symptoms are.


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## babycalf

hey all im new at raising calfs this is only my second calf the first was a 1day old heifer who was very sick with scours and i dont think she had had her colostrium she couldnt stand up we braught her back to life and then some dogs got ahold of her when she was a few weeks we were so devistated she was still alive and we tried everything getting her back to life but a week later she passed now we went to auction and got a calf not sure how old but much older then the other one hes a holstien bull calf who at first had scowers but today he stated pooping normal and we are so glad hes done with that we have him on some starter feed but he still eats from the bottle and has been wanting more then a gallon and a half in one sitting do you think its time to ween him completly and is there anything special i should get for that?


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## topside1

Babycalf welcome to the forum...Start a new thread for your question, you will get a lot more responses that way....I'm also not exactly sure what your question is? Start a new thread with your question and I'd be glad to help....Topside


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## babycalf

also was wondering will a bull calf get agressive if i dont casterate him? I would love to keep him as a bull and get a heifer down the line to breed them but Im pregnant and dont need anything agressive


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## topside1

The new thread button is in the upper left side of the cattle forum page...


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## 2HFARMS

I tried raising bottle calves for 2 years with approximately 27 calves on sight. I learned a lot as time went on and reduced the death rate from 55% to 30% in the end. Generally, I didn't lose calves until they were over 3 weeks old. As of now, I have switched to the nurse cow operation and reduced the death rate to 2% overall. I think stress is the issue and the calves need a Mama present. As always, I will review, discuss & listen to all advice and comments.

2hfarms


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## trbizwiz

I bought 4 bottle calves in early march. I brought them home in a snow storm. I put them up in the barn. I kept them in the barn until early April. When I turned them out to pasture after 5 weeks, I weened them from the bottle, and started them on a small supplement of sweet feed. They are all very strong and healthy, and look to turn out to be great little calves. With milk replacer, feed and meds I have less than $100 each in them. I'll probably let them go 31 to 32 months before butchering. I have plenty of grass and I want to maximize their potential before I harvest them. I'll probably get a few more next year. Between 4 and 6, is all I could probably deal with at one time. I think 6 would be an ideal number.


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## rcornish

Glad to see this - lot of good information in here. I have not dealt with bottle baby calves in pretty close to 20 years. As I am getting ready to get into that venture again here really soon it was some really good reading to refresh and get a few tips on some of your standard practices that we were not doing way back when.


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## DroppedAtBirth

I'm new to being the one in charge on the cattle in the family and will be purchasing 2-3 bottle calves (jersey/angus cross and at least one a heifer) in a few weeks or a month. I'm purchasing from a private individual and will be making sure they've had some colostrum prior to coming home. I would like to get a kit together of things I need to have at hand if anything goes awry and just want to double check the items I've written down so far:

Rectal thermometer
Calf tubing rig
Electrolytes (pedialyte work?)
injectable vitamins (don't have much on specifics with this one)
banamine
cocci boluses
amprol
heat lamp
bottle and cleaning supplies
Milk replacer
shelter

Wondering what I've missed and what I've gone overboard on before I make the trip to the co-op for purchase. I live at best 1/2 hour from town (4 in the morning drive time) but usually closer to 45 minutes (not counting construction, downed trees, wrecks, etc.) so need to have stuff readily available here.

Almost forgot, I have my vet on speed dial


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## trbizwiz

I transitioned my calves to sweet feed as soon as possible. I think they were on MR for a total of 5.5 weeks. Don't forget to worm them a month or two after they go outside. Worms will keep them from gaining condition early. Mine have been very healthy. I only had a small bout of occicidosis, cured easily with antibiotics. I will definitely do this again next year. It will be hard to call these guys grass fed, but the last half of their lives will be straight grass. Unfortunately to get them off MR you need to give them high calorie feed. Sweet feed is much cheaper and easier to administer than MR. I plant deer plots for my cows to graze so they go into winter in very good condition. Its much cheaper than over feeding hay, and it makes the soil healthier. You aren't bringing in foreign weed seed and who knows what, and winter annuals will loosen the soil so it will hold more winter moisture.


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## SabineHomestead

holstes bulls make graet oxen to work your farm land , and pull fire wood out of your wood lot . thay are very ezy to train


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## trbizwiz

Looking back over the last nine months, my first go at raising bottle calves has been a positive one. First off I bought my calves privately from a dairy. They were healthy from the start. I bottle fed them inside as I bought them in March during a snow storm and it stayed cold the first month. I have a barn at my disposal so I had that option. I did ween my calves after 5.5 weeks, still giving them a watered down bottle of MR for an additional week while transitioning to grass. I did start them on free choice sweet feed right away, though they did not choose to eat any for the first 2 weeks or so. I kept them on sweet feed and grass until they fully made the transition to grass and I had plenty of good quality grass.
The calves are in very good condition now going in to their first winter. They are about 300 pounds, might be bigger if I had bottle fed longer, but I would rather they take longer to grow on grass than invest more in expensive MR. I just want them to have milk for as long as it takes for them to be healthy. 
I think a bigger part of why they aren't 500 pounds is that I did not worm them until July. I think they needed it much earlier than that now that I am looking back. So I recommend you worm your calves early and a gain late to get the best condition.
The only other mistake I think I really wiffed on, is I practice MIG. I did not start the calves into the MIG program until this fall. I think that made their transition a little more challenging, and it also hurt my grass recovery. I would have started them right away if I were starting today. 
This has been a great experience, I may do it again in the future if I buy more land. These calves were the stop gap for me. I had some young heifers, and I needed more cows to manage the grass I have. The heifers are bred now and will calve in the spring. SO I wont need the extra cows next year. When I buy some adjacent property, I will probably buy more dairy calves to get a good stocking rate quickly and cheaply in order to build my herd more slowly with higher grade breeding stock, and still have enough calves to manage the grass. 
I hope my experience helps someone considering doing the same to take the leap. Make sure though to start with healthy calves.


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## topside1

Glad to here your bottle feeding experience was a positive one...Topside


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## trbizwiz

thanks


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## Messianic4

We are going to be getting our first cows in Jan. We only want 1 Dairy and 1 Beef. Right now that is all we have room for until we can build a bigger barn. I was wondering if anyone could suggest what kind of cows we should get. I have been told so many ..from so many different people. I want to hear from people who know. Also Do you bottle feed them for 4 or 6 weeks? After the bottle feeding..how much do they eat..how often and what all do you feed your cows? I have not had a cow since I was 7..and don't remember everything. Car accident and brain surgery...(didn't help). I have been reading online and books...but so many diff opinions.


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## trbizwiz

For your dairy cow you will want to be pretty selective. Jerseys and a few others have milk that is less likely to cause milk allergies for kids. 
For the beef cow, you might consider a dairy breed. They take longer to mature to slaughter weight, but they will cost much less to purchase. I bought mine for $60 each last year. you will want to buy directly from the farm and get one a few days old that has had his colostrum. Also a free martin heifer would be a good choice. They wont need to be castrated and their beef is every bit as good as a steer. 
I only bottle fed mine for 5 weeks, and I started them on sweet feed the first week. When they were eating sweet feed fine I took them off bottle. When they were eating grass well I greatly reduced their sweet feed. 
Remember their poop will tell you a lot about their health. Their coat will too.
I have heard you can eliminate worming by having cows and chickens and sheep in the same pasture. i have cows and chickens, I may try sheep this spring but I have no first hand experience.
Also my suggestions are based solely on my personal experience and are not the only or possibly even the best way. But they worked well for me so far. Only been doing it for 2 years though.
Best of luck


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## myersfarm

I am using a new product SAV-A-CAF Scours & Pneumonia Treatment....it seems to work better then anything else I have used as it has milk in it also...still need to check temp on calf to see if they need anything else....but seems to make them firm up fast...


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## myersfarm

I have another new product I am using on calfs a respiratory vaccine for new born calfs....called Inforce 3....it is made for 3 to 9 day old calfs intranasal , BUT USED ON ALL SIZES AND AGES but the shot works better in other sizes ,,it works on BRSV IBR PI3..will see how this works this year


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## myersfarm

Inforce 3.... really works after using one month no more signs of respiratory problems...will use on next batch for sure


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## VaFarmer

I like the Jerseys because they have a better sense of survival and hardier, just learn how to eat and routines faster than holistiens & angus. They'll go for the sweet feed within 2 wks and nipple on hay & grass wks before the others. I had a group of 5 started last October & they handled the winter with much less trouble & penicelin than the holisteins. Have a group of 9 that are a wk old going now and they took to the hanging bottles by the 2nd day and I turn them out during the day to mingle with the herd and when I walk up to the barn in the evening & whistel to them they run right in and ready for evening feeding, the angus would just stand there in the field till I walked over with a bottle and lead them in. . For slaughter holisteins seem to have a lot of loss of hanging weight, heavy boned, but people like them because they look big but you don't get the amount of meat from them for the size. I get the jerseys for $30 each at 2 days old. Have 2, 6 mth old holstein heifers that will bred next yr to 1 lucky boy that won't get banded. :dance:


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## Marsha

I just bought a healthy looking holestin bull calf at the auction last Thursday.
He weighed 74 pounds, and, his embilical cord was all dried up. Well, for the first 3 days his poop was fine, but, now it is runny as water.

My hubs said to cut back on the MR, and, I did, but, I noticed today that he still has runny poop.

He is still very active, and, alert...up, and, at the gate waiting for me when I go to the barn.

What should I do to get him over this runny poop thing?


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## VaFarmer

How's the calfdoing now? There are additives you put in the MR that balence there stomach enzine action and get them over scoures faster. Sav-a-calf has worked well for me.


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## trbizwiz

I have heard good things about save a calf too. It is never in stock when Ineed it. I suggest you keep some of that on hand.


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## JoeHollinger

francismilker said:


> Good Thread Topside!
> 
> I'd like to jump in here as well. Although I don't raise the huge numbers you and Myersfarm produce, I usually raise twenty or so per year and have had pretty good success.
> 
> I can't reiterate enough your thoughts on calf selection and the things you mentioned to look for.
> Here's my methods:
> -pick out the calf(s) that I'm interested in prior to the sale. (if I don't get there in time to preview the calves, I don't buy calves PERIOD!)
> -win the bid, load the calves, and head toward the homestead ASAP.
> (one note: As I'm loading the calves, I give them all a 3cc shot of Baytril.)
> 
> Now, I'd like to add my preventative measures for once the calf is at home and in the pen.
> 
> -I don't immediately stick a bottle in their mouth.(as is usually the first thing a new calf buyer does out of sympothy for the begging, crying calf.)
> It's important for first time bottle calf raisers to realize the feeding instructions on the MR bag are the volume feeding rate for a healthy, normal sized calf with their feet on the ground good and a clean bill of health. A calf will keep on sucking the bottle until they are completely and totally filled to the brim which most always ends in the scours.
> -The first feeding they get is a 1qt bottle of water and electrolytes.
> -8 hours later, they get 1-1/2 qts of MR and electrolytes mixed 50/50.
> -12 hours later, 1-1/2 qts of MR 75% and electrolytes 25%.
> -12 hours later, 1-1/2 qts of MR
> (this gradual introduction to MR or fresh cow's milk is only if there is no apparent signs of scours.)
> -If I do see signs of scours, I treat it with electrolytes solely. (remember, yesterday the calf got a shot of baytril as a preventative measure against pnuemonia, shipping fever, and scours.)
> -Too often, a first time calf raiser goes to the local feedstore only to have someone sell them a bottle of scour boluses (which do have their place) and starts shoving them down the animal's throat.
> -Most of the time, what we call scours isn't actually scours. It's just loose bowels and should be treated with liquid replacement.
> -The boluses usually contain oxytetracyclene which is a broad spectrum antibiotic and the natural bacteria in the animal's digestive sytem is compromised. (after all, when our children come home from school with diarea or upset stomach we don't start giving them antibiotics until the symtoms persist or we see the need for medical treatment as prescribed from a doctor. We treat them to 7-up or gatorade to keep them from getting dehydrated.)
> Remember, if you see liquid out, you need liquid going back in.
> -If you even think that the calf's bowels are getting too loose, start feeding them 4 small feedings instead of 2 larger ones. I realize this might be impossible for someone who works a day job but do the best you can to keep the animal hydrated 24/7 without over or under feeding.
> -I always keep feed, (sweet grain consisting of oats and corn is my personal choice) water, and hay out to the calf at all times.
> -The calf is getting all the fat and protein they need from the MR or fresh milk so I see no need of buying an expensive calf starter right at the start.
> -I always separate the water and feed buckets far enough apart that the calf isn't able to dribble feed into their water bucket when switching from one bucket to another.
> -I always thoroughly clean the water and feed buckets daily. (all the left over feed, (and there will be a lot of it for the first week or so) gets fed to the chickens.) Wet, nasty feed will sour in the bucket and could help the critter to get sick.
> -I do the same with the hay. What doesn't get consumed gets discarded.
> -AWAYS, ALWAYS, ALWAYS look for signs of dehydration. ( I like to see the calf with a moist nose and very alert eyes and perky ears)
> -a kind of sick, lethergic calf before you leave for work can be a near death unreversible calf when you get home!
> -Most generally, after about one to two weeks, a calf that is eating and drinking well becomes another one of the chores and requires very little more than dropping a bottle in it's hanger and coming back to pick it up once it's finished. The first few days are the most critical. Just keep a good eye on them.
> -Once a calf is totally cleaning up the amount of feed that would equal 3-4% of their body weight daily and eating hay and drinking water I wein them. This consist of one week of 1/2 the volume of MR and then I go to one week of once a day bottle at 1/2 volume. After this, I quit them cold turkey and turn them into larger pens with like sized calves that have access to water, hay, and minerals free choice.
> -I hope this helps and I'm quite certain there are other ways to get the job done. It's just what works for me.


Feeding MR and electrolyte at the same time is a no-no per my vet. It causes the milk to curdle wrong in the calves stomach and continue scours. If calf scours, feed nothing but electrolytes for 24 hours, then return to MR. Don't feed MR within one hour before or one hour after feeding electrolyte. I found that a scouring calf does better with a probiotic for three days as well as a 3cc shot IM of LA-200 under the skin of the neck for three days. Remember, no more than 10cc in any one spot. If the calf is for meat, the LA-200 will discolor the meat at the injection point. Its a good idea to inject them in a spot where discoloration trimming won't cost you prime cuts.

Has anyone noticed that "bull" calves in the same pen will nurse "?" on each other right after coming off of the bottle? Is this harmful? If it is, how do you stop it?


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## topside1

Feed them separatly and then re-unite after they calm back down...You will get more answers if you start a new thread in the main body of the cattle forum. Start a new thread. Several other way to stop the sucking, but start a new thread and I'd be glad to help, as will others...Topside


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## myersfarm

francismilker were is that like button.....i mix eletrolites and milk together also....not sure but we do lots of stuff the same way....you have been reading my post or i have been reading yours.......but the biddest thing I see about us we both say


WHAT WORKS FOR ME

I buy from different sale barns so what works fora calf from one sale barn calf may not work from a calf from a different sale barn....


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## boundarybunnyco

I tried dairy bull calves two years ago. Raised them on MR and sweet feed, hay, and grass. They got sick and coughed and had snotty noses, and we got meds from the vet and gave them shots. They all got better, and we raised them and butchered them. They were holsteins.
I'm wanting to do this again, and I can't remember how long we had them on milk replacer. Can you all please tell me how long to have them on the MR, and when to introduce them to a bucket, and when to add the grain? Thanks in advance.


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## myersfarm

I keep mine on MR for aslong as it takes for them to eat feed really good...usally 8 to 10 weeks.....I give feed the first day


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## sassafras manor

Our last batch we brought to the farm on October 18. Just like myersfarm they were given feed the first day by hand as well as free-choice fresh water. After a few days they would willing nibble on their feed and mess with the water in the hanging bucket. After a week they were transitioned to the bucket for thier MR as well. They now are eating 3/4 lb. of calf starter in the morning and another 3/4 lb. in the evening. About 2 weeks ago, I stopped giving them MR in the morning and tonight will be their last feeding of MR (bag will be empty).


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## freeb

Spet 24th i bought 5 jersey bull calves at the auction house. Got them for $3 each. Everything went well and all 5 have now been weaned and are now almost 10 weeks old. i weaned at 8 weeks, fed 2 days of powdered colostrum when first brought them home as most had been born that day. They are now on range cubes, sweet feed and hay.


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## francismilker

Myers, 
Did I read correctly? Are you going to quit the dairy heifer gig? Has the bottom fallen out of raising replacement heifers since sexed semen come along? Is it going to beef calves next year?


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## Allen W

freeb said:


> Spet 24th i bought 5 jersey bull calves at the auction house. Got them for $3 each. Everything went well and all 5 have now been weaned and are now almost 10 weeks old. i weaned at 8 weeks, fed 2 days of powdered colostrum when first brought them home as most had been born that day. They are now on range cubes, sweet feed and hay.


A lot of range cubes have urea as a protein source which small calves don't utlize well.


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## myersfarm

Francis Yes I am switching to the dairy /beef cross...or a pen or two of just straight BEEEF if I can find them..sex semen had nothing to do with it ...dairy farm input cost are making dairy unprofitable......sold 39 of my best heifers BRED AND REALLY GOT NO MORE THEN BEEF PRICE......why I am changing


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## radavis

LizD said:


> Ok this is a 'calf ready' post right? Well we don't buy from the sale barn. We veal a couple of dairy calves every year and these are from local dairy barns. This way we have the ability to talk to the producer and make sure that the calf has sufficient colostrum etc. But sale barn or local barn, the problems could be the same. Before you buy a calf you need a few things in your medicine chest: a rectal thermometer, $12 - $14 bucks at your local drug store, a calf tubing rig, electrolytes, calf bottles, injectable vitamins (like e-sel in my area), banamine or another anti-inflamitory, I keep cow aspirine on hand and also a broad specetrum antibiotic like Excenel. Problem though with an antibiotic is that they are really all geared to different infections and most dairy barns have resistance built up in their herd to one or another. Excenel and another, Nuflor will do respiratory but you should speak to your vet because she/he will know what resistance there is in the dairy barns of the area. We also know that we have coccisidiosis on the farm and so I keep cocci-boluses and also Amprol at hand. Oh and most important, a probiotic if you do have to use an antibiotic; yogort works and 'Fast track' we have found better. Ok what am I missing guys, jump in. Liz


I see you do veal could you give me some info on who to sell to. I new here an loving it, make me feel like I back in the hill of KY, I live in Lawrenceburg tn now on 27.24 A, I was rasied on a dairy farm, and i do not think I will have a lot of trouble rasing them, been reading about a new way of rasing them, and I like that a lot better,
Robert
Green Acres


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## myersfarm

radavis wrote ....been reading about a new way of rasing them, and I like that a lot better,
...do you want to share or a link


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## radavis

myersfarm said:


> radavis wrote ....been reading about a new way of rasing them, and I like that a lot better,
> ...do you want to share or a link


here is two of the palce I've see doing the new way and it may not be new but it new to me. these are the best two I found, there more but there on my other computer and I have not got it up and running yet, we just moved in up here and I'm starting to get the barn ready for the frist ones. going to try maybe 5 at the most right now.

http://www.provitellofarms.com/

http://www.vealfarm.com/housing.aspx

Robert 
Green Acres


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## myersfarm

I have read those before I raise in pens of 5 . milkbars have 5 to 6 nipples....yes I know they have 12 nipple milk bars but that would mean you have to get into pen and move calfs over..can not figure a easy way to feed in pens of 20 or 30 making sure each calf gets its share


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## myersfarm

those Milk feeders at veal farm...run $3000..if I could find one cheaper I would try it my barns hook together so I could make a barn 15 X 400 real easy


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## radavis

myersfarm said:


> I have read those before I raise in pens of 5 . milkbars have 5 to 6 nipples....yes I know they have 12 nipple milk bars but that would mean you have to get into pen and move calfs over..can not figure a easy way to feed in pens of 20 or 30 making sure each calf gets its share


I going to start out with 5 right now and see how thing go, I think i still remember most of the stuff I learn on the farm mean mean yrs ago, we milk about 100 heard two time a day, then I left for the marines and while I was gone granddad sold the farm, it been a while but I think thing will come back to me as I do them. the only thing that I not been able to find out is where to sale, my Question is do I sale at a sale barn or is there a diff market place for veal. I try to look on line and I not been able to find much about where to market my prodce after I get it ready to sale. lots on how to get started and then make it better. 
Thank
Robert n Randi 
Green Acres


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## myersfarm

Radavis you will need to BE CLOSE TO A SLAUGHTER HOUSE ...that butchers for VEAL to sell as Veal..usually around big dairy markets.....most grow there own then slaughter......none around me...they also want them kept inside out of sun with no grain or grass just MILK TILL THEY GET TO 400 pounds....thats a lot of milk


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## radavis

myersfarm said:


> Radavis you will need to BE CLOSE TO A SLAUGHTER HOUSE ...that butchers for VEAL to sell as Veal..usually around big dairy markets.....most grow there own then slaughter......none around me...they also want them kept inside out of sun with no grain or grass just MILK TILL THEY GET TO 400 pounds....thats a lot of milk


if that the case I will not be doing veal, 
Thanks
Robert n Randi
Green Acres


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## Valmai

myersfarm said:


> I have read those before I raise in pens of 5 . milkbars have 5 to 6 nipples....yes I know they have 12 nipple milk bars but that would mean you have to get into pen and move calfs over..can not figure a easy way to feed in pens of 20 or 30 making sure each calf gets its share


One place I worked at had 30 per pen. We had a folding aluminium gate to divide the pen in half and so feed 15 at one time.


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## myersfarm

I did not explain it right i meant to say if you have 20 in the pen even with the gate and 10 in each pen you will have 3 fighting to get on the first nipple and none on the 9 and 10 nipple...the first 2 weeks and will have to get in pen and move them over...that takes up time on feeding instead with the 5 calfs in pen and 6 nipples on milk bars...I just move the 5 nipple milk bar to the older pens and start the new calves on the 6 nipple bars where they are extra nipples

when very young even with 5 nipples and 5 calves they just want the nipple they want and one will take 3 sips and another calf will butt her off and take 3 sips before she gets butted off INSTEAD of moving over to the empty nipple


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## New Farm Momma

I am a first timer here I may be paraniod but figured this was where to ask questions. We purchased to dairy cross calves 5 days ago. We think they were 2-3 days old when we got them. We gave no antibiotics, no vaccines and intend to grass feed throughout.

Day 1 "Porter" was lethargic, wouldn't stand, wouldn't eat, liquid poop, etc. We gave him electrolytes (in the middle of the night via dropper) and again in the morning and he perked right up. Later that day we gave him half electrolytes/half MR. The electrolyes say it is ok to mix the two, we followed their directions. And the next feeding he had MR and has been normal since. Thicker poop (pudding consistency) active, eating well.
Day 1 "Meatball" was active, ate well from bottle (2 pints MR). Mistake #1 I fed him too much the next morning thinking he was ready, not so much. He ended up droopy and poopy that afternoon so we fed him electrolyes for one meal, and half electro/half MR (lesson learned). After that he wasn normal for day 3 and most of day 4. Last night we noticed his poop was getting a little bit thinner (not like water but maybe gogurt constency) and had a small tinge on blood at the end. We fed as normal but today his poop is a little thinner, seems like wet snot really and had blood in it again (not a lot, but enough that I knew what it was and was like snot). 
INFO: 
*Feed*... Grade A ultra 24 Milk Replacer (non medicated) 2 pints in the am/ 1 pint 8 hrs later/ 2 pints pm (planned to switch to 2 feedings after day 10)
*Behavior*...ready to eat when I enter, sucks well, still bothers me when he is done trying for more, not jumping around much but up to see me and sniffing around pen, layed down a few minutes after eating, he did cough twice while I was out there (20 min) doesn't seem to have labored breathing, bright eyes, head up, stands normally, yesterday had a little bit of a runny eye (clear/whitish). He does get poop all over he when he goes but tries to clean it himself.
*Housing*...Fully inside barn in pen with other calf, straw bedding and haven't went outside yet. We remove any soiled straw every time we go out to check on them and have never had cows in there before. Day #2 was a dreary rainy day but the weather has been nice since then in Missouri. 

I am wondering if I should just cut back food or give eletrolyes. 
I get worried simply because I know it can go downhill fast with the young ones and we are certainly not experts...more like we have read the books and are scrambling through it now. Thanks for any help.


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## VaFarmer

I would continue with a weak mix of MR and a full 50% of electrolite, keep using a electrolite that is rated to mix with MR, some are not so good for mixing, if in dought just use straight eletro lite everyother feeding.


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## 4h farmer

sounds like he has scours


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## New Farm Momma

Thanks  He is doing a lot better now. Thankfully we caught it before it got too bad. He never did get lethargic or droopy. We did electro for about 24 hrs, then mixed 50/50. He went back to regular milk and it slowly improved. Our neighbor stopped by and when I asked him about it he said that some calves (even with their mother) simply have thin poop. 
Hopefully we we have a handle on this one so that we can be ready for the next thing that comes up with them :thumb:


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## TXFarmer

I had a small calf pulled off a too early bred heifer, she was 4 days when I got her and was told she had had her colostrum. 2 days later she was down I happen to have some colostrum so started her on it a few oz 4 times a day. Also gave her electrolytes. Started reading on internet figured out she might have pneumonia. Im not into using antibiotics anymore than necessary. When reading thought she might have the strain that is hard to fight with them anyways. I have recently learned about Oregano Oil. I mixed it with her electrolytes so it would not burn her mouth gave it to her 2 times a day within a day she was getting up going to the milk cow I have and trying to nurse. This Oil is a great thing I recommend it highly I use it due to allergies and even with the worst year in a long time for allergies I am not having episodes like I did in the last 2 years. Go to HealthyHealth.com - This Name is Now Available to RENT or BUY !!! and you can get it pretty reasonable. Be careful with it it can burn it is hot, taste horrible, but worth all that cause it works. By the way she is up and outside running with a cow that I got that lost her calf she has now taken on the little toot toot as I call her.


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## kfrancisco92

we have only raised ten jerseyX bulls and never had to give them any antibiotic or other medicine. we did have to give a couple of them PeptoBismol when they were bloated but other than that had no issues. we slowly sold them off due to financial issues but they all went to friends and they are all still well. my husband bought me one for valentines day (yes it is romantic right? ) and he is the only one we have kept ill never sell him. i am reading all these post and had no idea there was so much that could go wrong. we just had them offered to us one day. since Red (the calf) is now on his own for the first will he get lonely? or possibly lack in the growth department since he doesnt have a buddy to compete with to eat? i would hate for something to happen to him, he is my baby 

great thread!


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## topside1

Yes do get him a buddy, he'll thrive with a friend...Topside


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## BlueHillsFarm

So is there a way to a profitable calf rearing operation? I raised 20 last year with 2 deaths that could have been prevented. I'm running these guys with the big herd now but is there a way to profitably market weaned calves? Apparently in NZ they have gone to once a day feedings which cut labor costs and increase DM intake sooner. I'm in VA and holstein bull calves are expensive like ~$50-80. Has anyone crunched the numbers? Thanks!


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## cnsper

Here people are selling their day old holstein calves for $200-$300 each. They don't sell quick that I know of so they are usually a week old before being sold.

I used to work a sale barn in high school and it was my job to load and unload the trucks. What an experience that was. Have to be quick on your feet and climb walls like spiderman. With the calves the most we had to do was push them from behind to get them to move. The pen for the calves was the one closest to the arena for obvious reasons and thick with sawdust and had it's own loadout door. Our barn did not allow anyone to use cattle prods or whips of any kind anywhere in the barn. We did carry canes because they make your arms longer when you are trying to sort 3 head out of a pen of 50. Some cows that came in were just plain wild and scared, with those you opened the gate and got out of the way. In the 3 years I worked there I only saw one cow that was hit with a cane and that was because it was charging and there was no where to go. They were also good for steering pigs in the right direction. The bulls were always fun to run up the alley to the arena. You always had to have 2 gates between each bull and they did not come off the scales until the previous one was secured in it's pen. Nothing worse than a bull fight in a 4 foot wide alley.


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## Valmai

BlueHillsFarm said:


> So is there a way to a profitable calf rearing operation? I raised 20 last year with 2 deaths that could have been prevented. I'm running these guys with the big herd now but is there a way to profitably market weaned calves? Apparently in NZ they have gone to once a day feedings which cut labor costs and increase DM intake sooner. I'm in VA and holstein bull calves are expensive like ~$50-80. Has anyone crunched the numbers? Thanks!


The science of once-a-day calf feeding | Calf Rearing

I personally disagree with some of the things they say in this article. I believe you should not contemplate OAD feeding until the calves are feeding well, milk meal and hay, and are healthy. People who have done this system say if it is not done absolutely perfectly all you accomplish is to turn good calves into poor calves. No matter how well you manage this they always look bad for at least 4-6 weeks.
Calves here cost between $30-$120 depending on breed (it is illegal to sell calves less than 4 days old). Milk powder approx $75-$100 per 20kg bag and you need 1 1/2 bags. Or if buying waste milk (peniclin milk) from dairy farm at 10-12 cents per litre= approx $40. Selling weaned calves at 100kgs + $330 - $460, once again depending on breed. This is for dairy bulls and beef cross bulls & heifers.
Example Freisian bull calf $60 raw milk $40 meal $44 tags vac meds etc $25 sell at $350. 
Or Same calf at $120 plus CMR 1 1/2 bags =$150 plus meal $44 plus tags vacinations medicine debudding etc= $25 Sell at $330. Sometimes you make money sometimes you dont.

A fully recorded dairy heifer 4 days old with a good BW and/or PW will cost around $650-700.


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## COWS

My parents had a small dairy up until their last child(me) left for college. They kept a few beef cows. Later when I settled in a job I added to the herd. Sometimes I have had a cow not accept a calf and I would bottle feed the calf. These were beef cattle and my experience was that it did not pay to bottle raise calves, unless you kept it on grass until it was large. Money is made from beef cattle off grass, not hay and certainly not expensive ground feed. 2 years ago we got tired of chasing cows that got out and I sold out the little herd. later I bought 300 pound heifers from the stock yard, fed them some and let them eat grass sold them after they doubled their weight. Haven't figured out the final money figures yet, but have just bought some more. The first lot I had one death loss and a vet bill for one with pinkeye. So far this lot is healthy.

In this area, Western SC, beef calves go for a much larger price that dairy calves. Once I had a cow die suddenly, leaving a month old calf. I bottle fed it long enough to get it healthy, took it to the sale, stood and announced the reason for selling, the breed details, the age of the calf, and the fact that it was feeding from a bottle. It sold real well, maybe $150, which is a lot higher that dairy calves bring.

People do not pay much for jersey calves because they take a long time to grow out. according to people that have tried them. Holsteins are much more popular. Dairies in the area are a short haul from the sale barn and calves are sold early, right after goats so they should have a good chance at being healthy. I would like to try holstein steers that someone has bottle raised to 300 pounds, then plan on keeping them a year or so until they are 1,000 pounds, howeve, I haven't seen any at the sales and the word is that someone else buys all he can find. 

In short, I have the facilities and the time, but I can't see bottle feeding paying off.

COWS


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## mrhower

Not so fast. It's probably Jersey bull calves bringing ten bucks and (guessing your in dairy country) holstein bulls bringing 60 plus dollars. This is because of the price difference when they are bigger. I would go with the stein myself-you can hardly give away a jersey steer.


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## mrhower

I do this for a living in Kansas so heres my thoughts on the matter. First of all if the baby you buy didn't get "mamas milk" within 24 hours there is nothing you can do to keep it alive-it will die within 5 days usually. There are very good replacements for mamas milk that can be bought but if the calf doesn't have it in first 24hours it don't matter. 
So now with the feeding, you probably are best off with medicated milk replacer (it helps prevent scours) and you can use the electrolites for fast energy but don't over use them. Also if a calf is starting to scour the best thing I'v found for the money is "One Day Response". Its a small package you mix with water and if they won't or cant drink it you tube them. It must be fed instantly after mixing cause it will thicken. 
It never hurts to give a calf you just purchased a small (3-5cc) of anti. (penniclin cheapest, nu-flor you need perscribtion). 
I feed young (under two weeks) 3 times a day (morning, noon and nite) but only feed 3/4 of a bottle. DO NOT OVERFEED IT. If you do you will kill him with the scours. And be smart, if its a 40 pound calf, feed him less and if he's a 120 pound calf, feed him more. 
Keep them dry and winter weather is better than summer if your just starting out. Start them on ground milo or a calf pellet you can buy at your local elevator by day 3. Live and learn.


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## SugarCrkRanch

I Have Bought 6 Jersey bulls They are 5 to 7 Days old the seller says. Also Says they have had the First Colostrum milk. He is feedin them twice a day MR 2 qts per feedin. I went to Farm last week Got there About 6:30 pm. Got 6 bulls That looked good, bright ,bouncy and ate good, a lil scours, Didnt bother me much ,I knew they would scour from the 3 hr ride and transition. Brought them home, Got home about 10:30 pm Put them in a good clean strawed small barn With each other . Next morning 5 dead. ????? I have called the farmer He said he would Give me 5 more Which he said he usally would not, But he said that did not sound right. When i put them in the barn they all seemed to be alert 3 were a little weak in the back but good stand Gave them Penicillan. And the ones with shot died and the ones without died.WHAT should I do about gettin these babies home and ease my Problems. I am not new to bottle Calves, Worked on a dairy for 2ys and a beef farm for 8 yrs. Just been out of the game for a while And wonder if there are new things I can do. I know the cold is hard on them as well. I Am Gettin Calf Blankets to bring them back in , And they will bee in the back of my truck with a camper shell on it.And was going to try to get some Baytril to shoot them with, And give them electrolyte when i get them home.Any other things should I do???


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## BlueHillsFarm

SugarCrkRanch said:


> I Have Bought 6 Jersey bulls They are 5 to 7 Days old the seller says. Also Says they have had the First Colostrum milk. He is feedin them twice a day MR 2 qts per feedin. I went to Farm last week Got there About 6:30 pm. Got 6 bulls That looked good, bright ,bouncy and ate good, a lil scours, Didnt bother me much ,I knew they would scour from the 3 hr ride and transition. Brought them home, Got home about 10:30 pm Put them in a good clean strawed small barn With each other . Next morning 5 dead. ????? I have called the farmer He said he would Give me 5 more Which he said he usally would not, But he said that did not sound right. When i put them in the barn they all seemed to be alert 3 were a little weak in the back but good stand Gave them Penicillan. And the ones with shot died and the ones without died.WHAT should I do about gettin these babies home and ease my Problems. I am not new to bottle Calves, Worked on a dairy for 2ys and a beef farm for 8 yrs. Just been out of the game for a while And wonder if there are new things I can do. I know the cold is hard on them as well. I Am Gettin Calf Blankets to bring them back in , And they will bee in the back of my truck with a camper shell on it.And was going to try to get some Baytril to shoot them with, And give them electrolyte when i get them home.Any other things should I do???


Well from my experience Jerseys are more susceptible to stress so there's one strike. 

You say that they were scouring a little bit when you bought them so there's another strike against you. I never buy a weak or scouring calf. If they are scouring a little bit they are already becoming dehydrated. I would not have bought calves or I would have at least given them electrolytes for the trip home.

Also a 3 hour drive is a very long way for these guys. Even big cattle get stressed and sick from such an ordeal, ie shipping fever. I would not buy from a farm that far away. 30 minute drive tops for me. 

They DEFINITELY need electrolytes after the trip. I always give electrolytes after getting them home which for me is usually a 15 minute trip.

I also assume temps dipped below 50 degrees that night where you live = more stress.

So all in all STRESS + DEHYDRATION + COLD killed your calves. I hope you got them cheap! =)


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## RedBuffalo

I am a newbie to bottle feeding calves. We went to the auction a month ago and we purchased 4 bull calves. Well we lost one within 3 days from pneumonia. The other 3 are doing great and they are eating grain and hay. And we just banded them last week. I will say that this has all been a great learning experience for me and now I am searching to find more bottle calves. The 3 that I still have follow me around like little puppies everywhere I go.


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## topside1

RedBuffalo said:


> I am a newbie to bottle feeding calves. We went to the auction a month ago and we purchased 4 bull calves. Well we lost one within 3 days from pneumonia. The other 3 are doing great and they are eating grain and hay. And we just banded them last week. I will say that this has all been a great learning experience for me and now I am searching to find more bottle calves. The 3 that I still have follow me around like little puppies everywhere I go.


Usually raising bottle calves can be quite rewarding, most new raisers are terrified of the sale barn, glad you were not....Congrats.


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## RedBuffalo

Well I was scared but excited about them at first but not because they were from the auction, but for the fact that these were the first calves I personally have ever owned. Then I started to get nervous after the first one died but we did everything we could to try to save him but it was too late. But like I said it was a great learning experience. And I will for sure do it again. I have got 3 great looking holstein calves right now. Even though they aren't sucking from a bottle anymore I still am giving them milk replacement, I am mixing it in with their grain.


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## Shayanna

Holstein Heifer for sale, 2 1/2 months old, weaned and eating hay/grain. asking for 500 dollars if anyone is interested.


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## JBarGFarmKeeper

http://springfield.craigslist.org/grd/3711726734.html

PM or email through CL

All of the milking animals were born/raised and freshened right here. Our children are getting older and leaving home and we have a large herd of dairy goats as well. We have 4 cows in milk currently and are looking to reduce the work load on the older kids. 

Contact me with any questions.


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## weendogmom

Picked up our first auction bull calf - want to raise him for beef. We paid $43 - figured if it didn't work out, it wouldn't be a huge loss (not to be insensitive, he is a beautiful animals). He is a 88lb Holstein. First night, I had to coax/force him to eat and stand - gave him raw cow milk mixed with raw goat milk, about 1.5 qts. We assumed the diary selling him at least gave him colostrum (to not do so seems like abuse) and that he was/is not more than a few days old (auction is every Tuesday).

Next day, went to TSC for milk replacer, etc. That day he had ploppy poop and a little poop that was mucousy with a touch of blood.

Day two fed Dumore Milk Replacer non-medicated (was all our local store had) 2x a day at 2 qrts each feeding (topped with some raw milk from the store) and 2 qrts of electrolytes in the afternoon because he doesn't seem to be drinking water from a tub. Also gave him a vitamin paste (B12 and others) and a probiotic paste, and 90cc of kaolin between bottles.

Day three, he still seemed like he was having a hard time getting up (harder than it seems a calf should at least), gave him a vit E & Sel paste, more probiotic paste and about 60cc of kaolin.

We are on day four. Over all he seems perky, wags his tail when eating, butts for more, gets up easier and is surer on his feet. We have him in our trailer at night until he is a bit bigger, and today and last night he was able to get in and out on his own (theres a ramp). He has gotten a little bit of poop on his back legs, but cleaned it off. Some poop on his tail, and today, a bit on one side of his rear. He has a wet nose. He had and still has a nice dry umbilical.

I am concerned and have questions about a few things: one, his poops still seem awfully soft, like pudding that has sat out and softened to a thick liquid, brownish yellow to brown, sometimes kinda dribbly (lands on the ground in a string) and sometimes a little thicker. I can't decide if he has mild scours or not?? He is urinating well. 

Should I continue with just electrolytes and kaolin or medicate? I went back to the store and bought Sav-a-caf medicated (neomycin and oxyteracycline) and some penicillin just in case... I don't want to administer antibiotics and destroy tummy bacteria if I don't have to. We don't have a local vet that does large animals - most everything is on us unless we want to call in someone from about 50 miles away. Everything the store sells in other antibiotics comes in huge containers, not to mention there are so many choices.

Two, he seems like his eyes are watering and he has some mucousy boogers around his nostrils - is this normal or should I be concerned? I don't hear a cough.

Also, when I go to check on him, sometimes parts of his coat are wet and seem ruffled - is he cleaning himself??



Also, misc. - when is a good age to dehorn and does anyone have any good videos to reference on doing it? This guy has a lot of strength already, I have a hard time imagining dehorning. Are we supposed to use an electric dehorner before they break the skin? Are any Holsteins naturally polled? I can feel two bumpy areas on the top of his head, but never having dehorned anything, I am not sure if they are the right spot. 


When is a good time to vaccinate? I figured I should wait until I am sure he is healthy?? 

Helpful notes or suggestions would be greatly appreciated - especially photos of calf poop, lol.


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## goodhors

Poops on a calf only getting a liquid diet will be soft. Consistantly thick, but not solid at all, is how calf poops look. Won't turn green until he eats pellets or grazes, but will STILL be soft and mushy. That is how cow poop looks! Any hardness means he needs more liquids, probably a LOT more liquids. The stringy part, could be from cleaning his nose. I don't know if I would keep trying different medications, you may not be letting them work long enough to have a helpful effect. For me, scours in a calf is really runny poops, mostly liquid. Your calf doesn't sound like that.

He does need lots of liquid, so the electrolytes probably helped, and the extra bottle mid afternoon keeps him lubricated. Calves get dehydrated so easily, and our Vet considers it the main reason bottle babies die. Electrolytes might work mixed in with his milk replacer too, for a bit longer. We fed our calves 3 bottles of milk replacer daily, which is what the Vet recommended. They were regular calf bottles, so I think they held 2 quarts each feeding. Our calf didn't drink from the bucket or tub of water for quite a while beyond the couple weeks of age. Didn't seem to understand or want water then. Make sure tub is not big enough for calf to fall into and drown. Bucket is safer at his age. He also needs a shady place to lay around, little babies like that do often lay around quite a bit. If he was a beef calf, his mom would park him in the AM, go out and graze, come back for a noon feeding, then leave him again. He wouldn't be up running about much at such a young age. 

Our calves did lick themselves some, even young. So he could be wet from that licking.

I would be washing his face, clean off eyes and nose a couple times a day, so the flies are not reinfecting him with germs as they walk on those boogers and drainage.

I would wait on the shots for a couple weeks, get him healthy first. I would certainly include Tetnus in his shots, to keep him safe. Good also for when you band him in preventing problems. I would practice leading him with a slip-rope halter DAILY, keep him used to doing as YOU direct him to do. Just leading him in and out of the trailer will be very helpful in keeping him under control and tamed for doing what you want.

We never bought an auction calf, ours came from the dairy farms, so we had little in the way of problems. I did pay for the more expensive medicated milk replacer, "just to be safe". Our dairy farm calf just wasn't as exposed to so many germs as auction calves are.

Hope to hear more reports of his good progress.


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## weendogmom

I've decided to go with 3 smaller feedings instead of just two, plus electrolytes, until he's a bit older and I'm not so worried about setting off scours.

His poops look a lot better today, but there is still some yellow mucous on the sides of his nose... When he runs a bit, he gives a little cough, but it's not regular.

He has two buckets with water and a bucket with a few handfuls of starter feed. I put some on my hand at each feeding and he takes a nibble.

I washed his face, legs, and rear end today, and gave him a little wipe down.


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## weendogmom

Also, we haven't used any medication yet, other than electrolytes and kaolin. I just bought them as a precaution and wanted to be ready in case he took a turn down hill.


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## goodhors

Glad to hear he is still improving. Seemed like our calves were just very slow at eating solid stuff. Much rather have their bottle until almost 2 months old. We started them with alfalfa pellets, the small ones. Didn't do calf pellets.

The coughing thing needs watching, don't want him going into pneumonia. Running and frolicking is good, makes him breathe deeply, so he gets air deep into all lung parts. Hoping he shakes it loose to come out and clear up.


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## weendogmom

So far, so good. My crazy husband even talked me into going back for another. So now we have a 3 week old holstein calf and a 1 week old jersey calf. Both are doing well. I was worried about the Jersey for a few days, as he came home with a wet umbilical and gave us a hard time eating the first two days, but we did colostrum as soon as he got home, put a dog e-collar on him to keep him from licking the cord, soaked the cord in triodine, and gave him penicillin for 4 days. Now he's an obnoxious little fellow.


Question for you all: When do you band? We waited with the Holstein until he was feeling better, and it was rather difficult to do. With the Jersey, I decided to just get it over and done with his first night while he didn't have a lot of fight in him - made it so much easier.

Another question: My husband, who is a bit nuts, has his heart set on leaving the horns on. I want to remove them. Any stories or experiences on folks who have left them on - good or bad? If we go with paste, when do you apply it?


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## Awnry Abe

I band early, for the reason you mentioned. Any time I can tag and band without running them up to the working pens, it is a bonus. So I get them very young, if possible.

If it were me, I wouldn't disbud/dehorn anything destined for the freezer. You'll here lots of bad stories about what happens with horns, and they are an issue, for sure. But for an animal that isn't going to get handled a great deal, I wouldn't push it. If you had a dairy heifer that was going to be a milker, on the other hand, it would be worth considering. Our dairy cows still have theirs, but I indend on dealing with them when fly season is over.


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## brendafawn

Just wondering,when are the bottle calfs considered out of danger. I bought two newborn santa gertrudis. They will be a month old friday. And when they start nibbleing hay and feed will they turn away from the bottle before they finish. My female has done it twice.they are very playful. She is even mooing when she sees me.

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## brendafawn

These are pictures of my calves,bully and Rosie.
View attachment 16416


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## masseyandy

They will drink as long as you let them. When they start eating about 2 pounds of calf starter a piece per day they are ready to be weaned.


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## francismilker

I usually wean mine at around 8 weeks on the bulls and 10-12 weeks on the heifers provided they are eating grass or hay well, drinking plenty of water, and are cleaning up a large coffee can of grain a day. 

I also like to see them being aggressive toward feed. If they're not leaving the bottle and going to the feed bucket without any coaxing or working with them, I try to be a little slower on the weining process with them by slimming down the amount I bottle them slowly instead of offing them cold turkey.


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## brendafawn

Just wondering if you start reducing their milk to get them to start eating grain. Mine will nibble grain an hay but will not clean the feed up. I feed them twice a day full bottles.


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## weendogmom

brendafawn said:


> Just wondering if you start reducing their milk to get them to start eating grain. Mine will nibble grain an hay but will not clean the feed up. I feed them twice a day full bottles.


I'm no expert, but I started reducing the amount they got to drink from the bottle at 8 weeks - down to 3/4 of a bottle for a few days, then half a bottle, then watered down half bottle, and then just water in a bottle for a day or two. Less stress, especially if you have one who is very attached to the bottle.


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## weendogmom

brendafawn said:


> Just wondering,when are the bottle calfs considered out of danger. I bought two newborn santa gertrudis. They will be a month old friday. And when they start nibbleing hay and feed will they turn away from the bottle before they finish. My female has done it twice.they are very playful. She is even mooing when she sees me.
> 
> Sent from my LG-LG730 using Homesteading Today mobile app



i would keep a close eye on her. at a month old, they should still be going to town on the bottle. check your formula or milk you are giving them??

honestly, they should drink their bottles, and once started on grain and off the bottle, eat their grain, like there is no tomorrow, lol. If they are off their bottle/feed, it's a sign there is something going on.


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## mrhower

Calves are never out of danger it seems with all the diseases today. Be sure and give them all their shots. A bucket calf should drink one 50 pound bag of milk replacer then be weaned. You should have ground milo or ground corn or a calf starter pellet in for them by day three so they can start eating it when ready. Hay also. Once eating their grain a calf that is around a hundred pounds should eat a pound a day, two hundred pounds-two pounds a day and so on. Some sort of grass hay would be great, try not feed them much alfalfa while they still drinking milk, maybe a little. Oh, this is just me but I give them their shots with killed virus and use-VIRA SHIELD 6. It will be given under skin in neck and will be followed with a second shot in a few weeks. I-Site XP given in neck under skin also. And ONE SHOT which is a single dose shot given under skin in neck also. Now you might wanna spread the shots out cause all them at one time can be hard on little calves. I also give Vision 7 Somnus w/Spur, it is given the same way and like Vira Shield 6 will need to be followed in a few weeks with a second shot.


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## brendafawn

Thanks they are actually off the bottle now and eating calf starter and hay. When do you start their shots. They are very happy and playful and feisty. The little bull will wrap around like a cat. Also wondering if all moo. My female moos whenever she hears my voice. Even if she can't see me,but the little bull has never moo`ed.


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## brendafawn

These little guy's are getting plump. I worried so much because they were so thin but not anymore.


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## brendafawn

Just wondering if you can feed your calfs to much. My hubbie thinks i am feeding mine to much. They are little butterballs. They were weened at about 10 weeks.


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## haypoint

brendafawn said:


> Just wondering if you can feed your calfs to much. My hubbie thinks i am feeding mine to much. They are little butterballs. They were weened at about 10 weeks.


Over feeding calves is likely the number one killer of calves by causing scours. If yours are thriving and not scouring, you must be doing something right. often, people over feed milk and cause scours. By the time they get advice and buy medication, and electrolytes, the calf is critical or dead.


----------



## brendafawn

Ok,they aren't on milk. I have two and their three months old. I feed them a bucket of feed a day shared between both and access to hay free will. They look good and have nice round bellies. Their bowls are good. I guess we were used to the look on sale barn calfs. We got these to from the feed lot right at birth. Fed them colostrum First couple of days.


----------



## Karin L

brendafawn said:


> Ok,they aren't on milk. I have two and their three months old. I feed them a bucket of feed a day shared between both and access to hay free will. They look good and have nice round bellies. Their bowls are good. I guess we were used to the look on sale barn calfs. We got these to from the feed lot right at birth. Fed them colostrum First couple of days.


The "fat" look shouldn't fool you nor your hubby as far as the size of their bellies are concerned. A big rumen doesn't equate to level of fatness--level of fatness across the ribs, spine and pelvis is the best indicator to really see if your calves are like butterballs or not. If you can still see/feel the pelvis--the hooks and pins, if you will--but they are not so sharply outlined, then they are in good shape. If you can't see nor feel the pelvis, then they are indeed fat. 

What is the nutrient content of their feed anyway? And how much is "a bucket full" of feed?


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## brendafawn

A feed bucket like you buy from the feed store. I hope this is enough.


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## Karin L

I've worked at a feed store and I can tell you there are different sizes of feed buckets--8 quart, 10 quart, 12 quart, etc. You've probably been feeding with one of those 8 or 10 quart pails, but I could be wrong, which is why I'm asking.


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## brendafawn

I think its probably an eight quart. Is that enough


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## Allen W

brendafawn said:


> Ok,they aren't on milk. I have two and their three months old. I feed them a bucket of feed a day shared between both and access to hay free will. They look good and have nice round bellies. Their bowls are good. I guess we were used to the look on sale barn calfs. We got these to from the feed lot right at birth. Fed them colostrum First couple of days.


I try to feed 1% of a calf's body weight per day of 16% protein grain mix for calves that size along with all of the better quality hay they can eat. I want them growing frame and muscle but no need for them to be overly fat.


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## Karin L

brendafawn said:


> I think its probably an eight quart. Is that enough


I can't tell you if it's more than enough without seeing them (have any pictures to share?) and knowing what their weight, breed and even sexes are, or even knowing what kind of feed you're feeding them. 

That's the curse of the Internet: I can't tell you anything about the amount of feed or quality of feed is sufficient for your calves across cyberspace because I've never seen them before among many other things: A three-month-old calf can be as little as 100 lbs or as much as 300 lbs depending on the breed. The types and nutrient value of a feed for such young animals vary in more ways than you can imagine. 

I hope this doesn't make things more frustrating for you or unhelpful in anyway, but trust me, when someone like me knows more about your animals it helps a lot.  



However, Allen covered it well for me since I didn't have enough time to come back with a reply. At least 16% protein (absolutely no urea!!) and around 65 MCal of energy (as in TDN [total digestible nutrients]) fed at ~0.5 to 1% of their bodyweight per day is what is definitely considered "enough." Note, though, that the amount of grain is needed depends on the type of calves you're feeding: Usually dairy calves need to be fed more grain than beef calves, as much as 0.5 to over 1% more.


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## brendafawn

Karen, my calfs are santa gertrudis, i have been feeding them 12% to 16% sweet feed. Sometimes i get a bag of. High protein calf feed. Here are pictures of them.the first is bully, the boy. And then rosie the girl.


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## Karin L

Well, aren't they a couple of sweethearts! 

They look like they're in good shape, not too fat and not too thin either. But I wouldn't call them "butterballs" like your hubby has.  

I can't tell much of their body condition from the amount of hair they have, but they look about as normal as normal as can get. But I can tell that the bull calf seems to like to hog the feed more than the heifer--just a dominance thing. She needs a little more weight (or fat) on her than with the bully boy. 

Are you feeding them so that they're eating together or separately? If you're feeding them together (like one big pile or one long line in the feed trough), try to feed them separately, like one pile for one calf and another pile for the other calf so that Rosie has a better chance at getting her share of the feed as her DB. (You probably don't feed them in piles, just in a feed trough, but if it comes to it, you might have to spread the feeding stations around to make sure she gets her fair share without having to be pushed out by her bigger brother.) We've always done that with our stocker steers because of the competition that goes on when the chop pails come out and the cracked barley is dumped in different piles on the ground for them. It just limits competition and allows for the less-dominant animals to get a chance to have their share without getting pushed out by the more bossy, pushy dominant steers. From the pics, I'm assuming that Rosie is the more submissive one of the two, hence the lower in condition. 

Assuming they're around 200 to 250 lbs each (the bull being more of the latter than the former), they should be getting around 2 to 3 lbs of feed each. An 8 qt. pail full of feed between the each of them should be enough, but just make sure to limit the competition between Bully Boy and Rosie. 

Otherwise, you're doing really good, Brenda!


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## brendafawn

Thanks Karin, i feed them in a feed trough but i have several small ones so i will definitly separate it. They are sweet hearts. I have put a lot of time and attention into them, i sure dont know if i could ever part with them.


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## Karin L

I wouldn't part with them either.


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## BobbyB

After the first week, I put a little feed out for mine and after they finish their bottle, I will let them suck a little off my hand. In a few days they are nibbling by themselves. 

By the time they turn 4-5 weeks old they are eating well and at 8 weeks, the bottle stops and they pick up on eating feed.

I feed a 15% creep that we make at work.


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## brendafawn

My son in law brought me some creep that was pretty much powdered. I feed them that first and then put them on the small pelleted creep and calf starter. Now they get sweet feed. I noticed they have 12% and 16% what does the percentage mean.


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## BobbyB

brendafawn said:


> My son in law brought me some creep that was pretty much powdered. I feed them that first and then put them on the small pelleted creep and calf starter. Now they get sweet feed. I noticed they have 12% and 16% what does the percentage mean.


percentage = protein

The creep I feed is a blend of cracked corn, roughage pellets, protein concentrate pellets , cotton seed meal and molasses. They love it.


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## agmantoo

I keep looking at the pics of these 2 calves. I cannot come to a conclusion as to what bothers me with the appearance. These calves just do not look thrifty to me. I do not like the poultry sharing the pen with the calves. The overly large gut on these animals does not reflect the quality of feed they are getting. I know it is Winter and long hair coats are expected but the hair seems overly coarse. If they were mine I would worm them ASAP just in case they have a parasite load.


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## BobbyB

agmantoo said:


> I keep looking at the pics of these 2 calves. I cannot come to a conclusion as to what bothers me with the appearance. These calves just do not look thrifty to me. I do not like the poultry sharing the pen with the calves. The overly large gut on these animals does not reflect the quality of feed they are getting. I know it is Winter and long hair coats are expected but the hair seems overly coarse. If they were mine I would worm them ASAP just in case they have a parasite load.


The chickens dont bother me, but they are awfully potbellied and unthrifty in appearence.


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## brendafawn

The chickens are free range. What kind of wormer do you suggest.


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## Allen W

What are they getting for hay? I would get a 16% starter or creep pellet and skip the sweet feed.


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## brendafawn

The hay is coastal. Il go the 16% creep. Any suggestions on wormer.


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## agmantoo

I would inject an ivermectin product. I would want to be certain they got the correct amount into their system without any doubt or question. A good mineral available could possible help also.


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## brendafawn

Thanks for the advice. I'll try that.


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## Allen W

brendafawn said:


> The hay is coastal. Il go the 16% creep. Any suggestions on wormer.


The hay gut your calves are carrying makes me think they aren't getting enough protein in their feed. Adding a half to a pound of alfalfa pellets or a flake of alfalfa hay to their diet in addition to the creep pellets could help with that. Little calves need a highly digestible diet because they don't have the rumen capacity to handle what a bigger calf can. The better you do growing them now the better they will do later.

Your little bull calf doesn't look too bad but your heifer calf could look better. I bought an old pair a month ago and the calf looked worse then yours but has really grew since then, her hair probably won't look good until she sheds in the spring though. The old cow has gained with the feed she has been getting too.


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## Karin L

brendafawn said:


> My son in law brought me some creep that was pretty much powdered. I feed them that first and then put them on the small pelleted creep and calf starter. Now they get sweet feed. I noticed they have 12% and 16% what does the percentage mean.


Bobby is partially right. The percentages are _Crude Protein_, the stuff that includes protein nitrogen and non-protein nitrogen (which is urea). I hope you're not feeding any feed with NPN in them, because calves at this age cannot and should not have any urea simply because they are incapable of digesting it. They must have the protein nitrogen that comes in alfalfa, soybean meal, canola meal, etc. 

I did say before to go with the high-protein stuff. The sweet feed is high in energy, but too much of a good thing. I concur with removing the sweet feed and going with the creep feed or calf starter. You might want to feed a little corn too to get some weight on them, especially that heifer. You can't feed something that is high in protein without feeding something else that is sufficient/high in energy, as these two nutrients go hand-in hand in ruminant nutrition, especially with young calves as these. Have the hay tested too, because a high fibre content can slow them down. Too much lignin (part of the fibre equation) is hard for a young calf or any age bovine to digest and simply stays in the gut and stays and stays until protein requirements are met and the animal can poop it out. (It's the exact opposite in horses.) I'm thinking that's part of the reason these calves look so pot-bellied, besides the parasite load, hence the term "hay belly".


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## Allen W

Since it's to late to edit my previous post I'll add here that calf mana would be another good product to add to their feed to up the protein instead of the alfalfa.


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## kayb

Hi to all,
This is my first posting and wanted to respond to raising bottle calves. In the last 2 years I have raised over 300 calves. Most we get from local farmers and they keep them 3 days before we pick them up or one farmer give us the milk and I feed them this for 3 days. I really love bottle feeding and the calves they all have names and spoiled. I have a picture of a calf coat I make out of old quilts. The cost here in VA is anywhere from $20.00 to $175.00. We have a set price from the farmers and take them year round.


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## Jhammett

ok so LOTS of questions here. My wife and I are school teachers ( her Sciences me History) we moved onto a 5 acre Homestead last year and decided to raise some of our own food. I have raised pigs, I have a flock of egg layers, and I just started a flock of Heavies for meat chickens. I really want to raise a cow also. do I do a cow or a bull? How long before I can put the meat in my freezer (quality meat)? Is there a breed I should look for? Is pasture going to be enough to feed it or should I plan on bringing in those big bales of hay? How much should I plan to spend on a cow. Are the $40-$60 prices I see here per head? are they still close to current market? Thanks for reading and your help.


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## brendafawn

Hi jhammett , i know that angus are meat cows, hereford also, im originally from south Texas, by the king ranch, they developed the santa gertrudis by crossing the brahma and shorthorn. They are very tolerant of texas weather. I got mine from the feed lot which is probably considered high risk but i have had some good luck with these two. Probably because they are santa gertrudis and have a high tolerance. I got mine straight from the mama. Had to feed them the colostrum myself. I plan on breeding mine. I couldnt eat them after raising them. But the calves are a different story. I want get as close to them. Good luck with whatever choice you make.


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## kayb

topside1 said:


> When I visit the sale barn I notice some bull calves sell for $10 while others sell for $60. What a big difference and in my opinion the $10 calves are high risk...Just my opinion.


I have raised 325 + bottle calves in the last 4 years with very good results, out of over 1and some yearly we average only 4 to 7 not to make it. I agree with the livestock sales some come in and not even have been with the mother. We don't buy from sales unless we know the farm they came from. Most of our calves come from 3 different farmers 2 are organic and they do very well they leave them with there mother 4 to 3 days and if they don't do well the refund the cost or another calf. I don't know where you are but here in Virginia in the valley you are lucky to get a calf under $100.00 to $i75.00 a better deal if you work with a farmer and take them year round.
Calflady


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## aoconnor1

This is all great information, something I will come back to many times I am sure. Can you guys tell me...do the same buyers guidelines apply to beef calves? I mean, shots, the MR routine, etc? Is there anything I would look for or do differently if I am buying a Brangus calf instead of a Jersey or similar?

Thanks in advance for any answers. I am not buying right now, but may someday...


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## haypoint

aoconnor1 said:


> This is all great information, something I will come back to many times I am sure. Can you guys tell me...do the same buyers guidelines apply to beef calves? I mean, shots, the MR routine, etc? Is there anything I would look for or do differently if I am buying a Brangus calf instead of a Jersey or similar?
> 
> Thanks in advance for any answers. I am not buying right now, but may someday...


Around here it is rare to sell a beef calf days after birth. Beef cows' job is to give birth to a healthy calf and feed it. Dairy cows' job is to make milk to sell. The calf is important, but secondary. Many dairy farmers get rid of their unwanted calves right away. No reason to market a beef calf early, unless the cow died giving birth.


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## aoconnor1

haypoint said:


> Around here it is rare to sell a beef calf days after birth. Beef cows' job is to give birth to a healthy calf and feed it. Dairy cows' job is to make milk to sell. The calf is important, but secondary. Many dairy farmers get rid of their unwanted calves right away. No reason to market a beef calf early, unless the cow died giving birth.


Ok, that is good to know. I prefer not to buy beef calves at all, but to breed my own, but if I find no open heifers or cows at auction that are a good buy, I thought to possibly pick up young calves and raise them to sell when they are older and larger. The cattle prices here are very high right now, I have scoured ads in my area for a week, read all sale sights, etc, and I want to learn everything I can before going to a sale.

Thanks for the help, I appreciate it.


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## Allen W

aoconnor1 said:


> Ok, that is good to know. I prefer not to buy beef calves at all, but to breed my own, but if I find no open heifers or cows at auction that are a good buy, I thought to possibly pick up young calves and raise them to sell when they are older and larger. The cattle prices here are very high right now, I have scoured ads in my area for a week, read all sale sights, etc, and I want to learn everything I can before going to a sale.
> 
> Thanks for the help, I appreciate it.


 
What is available varies from region to region. I can buy baby beef calves here regularly numbers available vary from season to season though.

Baby calves are off the wall here as far as price, I can buy a bigger calf for a couple hundred dollars more then the bottle calves are going for. Keep you pencil sharp and your mind open.


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## stanley

I am raising bottle babies and buying medicated MR was wondering where you can buy in bulk to save a little money I am in central VA


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## WIfarmboy

This is a good post. Thanks. I haven't been to a sale barn in a few years because of my move out west and selling all of our head, but this is good information. From my experience, larger sale barns will not let you in to "commingle" with your possible purchases prior to the actual sale/auction. Glad whenever I was looking, I was at a small town gathering and most of the people in the sales I knew personally. Great topic.


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## MJ1963

What do you give them if they won't drink the bottle and have the yellow watery poop also green nasal discharge?:cow:


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## MJ1963

myersfarm said:


> I only raise dairy heifers any dairy breed 7 days old or less last year I think it was 93 calfs I sold 60 at 400 lbs. and still have 33 left will sell in June
> 
> 
> stress is the reason I give MR to the calfs the first few feedings the less change I can do the better I am sure most dairys feed calves MR or since most of my calves I buy are holstiens ...holstien milk ..... thats a big jump from MR or Holstien milk to jersey milk ......so I try to give them something they are use to.. then after they settle in they can handle the jersey milk
> 
> I also seem to be able count the days after I get them home on day 3 or day 10 you really need to spend some time with the calfs thats when every thing shows up that they might have picked up at the sale barn
> 
> 
> tjm


If they pick up something at sale barn and it shows up on day 3 or day 10 what do you give them?:cow:myersfarm


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## jordie

myersfarm said:


> Ok here is what I do
> 
> I buy everything other people do not buy and I also buy everything you would buy
> 
> I buy 15 to 30 at a time ....but this is my 6 year doing this
> 
> A sale barn calf and a home bught calf are two totally different animals treated the same way the sale barn will die with a sale barn calf you have hours not days as a farm raised calf you have
> 
> 
> I put 5 calves in a pen thats 5 calfs that usually cost me and average of $150 if i raise 3 of the 5 I make lots of money if get lucky and raise 4 of 5 then i really make a lot of money on that pen....I also buy the highest calfs at the sale barn those sell for a average of $400 put them in pen of 5 if I raise all 5 then I really make money on that pen ...
> 
> my usual average on the price of calves is $260 a calf thats the price I have in the LIVE CAlFS thats like buying 10 for $250 thats $2500 if I lost 2 then the average is $312
> 
> the best time to buy calfs is from October to January during the holidays when nobody wants to feed calfs on Christmas day Thanksgiving or New Years day
> 
> 
> I give a shot of 1 cc batamine and 2 cc of LA200 when I put them in my trailer..as most time they have a 6 hour trip before they get to my house
> 
> I feed colostrum the first meal home then i feed Milk Replacer for the first 3 days then go to my Jersey Milk gradually
> 
> What you have to learn is what you have when you unload form the trailer
> 
> who needs what Calfs are like kids they can not tell you only show you they feel bad....I set out there every day for a hour watching the calfs see who is the last to the milk bar if the calfs swap on being last they get a shot
> 
> never believe that they will get better believe they will die in the night as they will
> 
> the way the coat on a calf lays tells me a lot about whats going on with the calf
> 
> A calf that cleans n it own coat does not need anything one that does not will die very fast
> 
> 
> A calf when it sucks holds it's head high will be sick soon
> 
> A calf that does not meet you at the gate will be sick soon
> 
> A calf will die before you can go buy and get back with what you need so have it on hand now.
> 
> 
> just my 2 cents
> 
> 
> I have 31 on milk right now next week will be down to 20 on milk and be buying more
> tjm


More information would be good....I am a begiinner in cattle.... pigs I dont have a problem. but cattle I need some one with plenty of experience that they are willing to share to get me up and running.

I swapped two calves for 30 kg of honey year before last year and they are nearly full grown...ready to mate well and truly. then i bought 5 calves last year and they have done well.....so just a month ago I bought 20 calves. they all had the scours and some still have the scours..have tried different things and have manage to dry some of them up....but what else can i do. 

all receiving hay, group one on pellets, and grain mix with oaten hay and lucerne hay ground in to the mix but in a more substantial size than the grain. they also get bentonite and some psyllium husk in the trough....want to take them off the pellets and add milk to their mix...cheaper option.
theyg et hay when finished their ration. they also get a salt, sugar carb soda solution in their water trough which they drink when finished. 

Second group were in the shed, but too wet and cold, so a new paddock with a hut. they get 2 litres of milk with 200g of powder aded they also get a pellet, grain ration and hay to last them out the day...they are given bentonite Also they are given the salt, sugar, carb soda water to drink for a few hours of the day.

calves were scouring kwhen i first bought them and was told they would just need hay, they were 4 - 7 weeks of age when I bought them.......they were skinny..... and really lacking. some have picked up but time is about all they have right now and me. any ideas on how long it will take for them to start to pick up...hads rained all day today and has been miserable and cold...


----------



## haypoint

If you do not know what you are doing, you may buy calves that are going to die, no matter the treatment.

Most avoid buying scouring calves. 

Your sugar, salt, soda water is what we call electrolytes. Scours will quickly dehydrate a calf. The electrolytes replace the lost minerals and fluids, without upsetting their digestion like milk will.

I always keep scours tablets on hand. Not sure what pills are available to you.

The chances that you can save one often depends if they had colostrum right after birth to impart the antibodies that protect the calf in the crucial first weeks of a calf's life.

This thread has 200 posts. Read them all, preferably prior to a winter visit to the livestock auction. Many people have spent their lives in self-taught calve husbandry, this thread serves as a speed course and is valuable.

I use the bentonite to seal off a water well and leave it off the list of calf feed. Don't know why you'd want to use psyllium husks that increases fecal moisture in scouring calves? I have no idea what those pellets you are feeding might contain.

You mentioned 2 L of milk, each day. Is that all at once? Better to space it out in two, three or four feedings. You also said you add powder to the milk. Powdered what?

As far as your question about when they'll get over it, scours generally kills calves in just a few days. So, you won't have long to wonder. Weakened by scours, pneumonia often sets in and without antibiotics, leaves them dead in their pen in a couple days.


----------



## haypoint

ksmith2006 said:


> One of the most problems associated with feeding baby calves is dealing with calf scours. In the past I followed the vet's advice on feeding elctrolytes and various scours medication with varying success. Their advice was too with hold milk replacer and this is when the trouble begins. Baby calves have very limited nutrient reserves and they are soon depleted when milk replace is with held. I found a natural product called RECOVER, that is an all natural nutritional supplent that can be added to the calves milk replacer. First I drench the calves with a healthy dose of RECOVER and I also add it to their milk as well. If needed, I will drench the calves for two or three days as needed. I have had excellent results with this product..I told my vet, but he said that it can't work. My healthy calves tell another story. I told my vet that not all solutions come from the lab!!! I have only found this product at www.innovatorsllc.net. Just my two cents worth.


You are right, it is a critical time for scouring calves. It is their mineral reserves that is most critical, along with dehydration. But dumping any amount of nutrition before the digestive tract has stabilized isn't going to help much. :nono:
I'll agree with your Vet on this one. The powder you are using is yeasts, coagulating bacterial cultures, dried fish meal and garlic. I tend to roll my eyes when a product employs the magical healing properties in garlic.:whistlin:

Stopping the diarrhea while maintaining electrolytes should be the focus. After that, feel free to employ any folk tale remedy you please, raw eggs, probiotics, yogurt, whatever. :lookout:

BTW, doesn't REMEDY come from a Lab? :shrug:


----------



## ksmith2006

I totally agree with these comments, especially about stress associated with sale barn calves. I only bought at sales barns as a last resort. These calves are subjected to so much stress you are bound to have numerous health problems. The one thing that I do to combat stress and sickness is to drench them for several days with a product called Recover. This is an all natural nutritional supplement that you can also add to their milk replacer. I have saved many sale barn calves this way. I prefer to go arouns to my local dairies and talk with the owners. I started raising calves when I was a young kid. I went to one dairy and wanted to buy a Brown Swiss heifer calf. He stated that he raises his own heifers, but would give me a one time chance. The only stipulation was that he had first chance at buying it back. Well he so liked what I did that he asked me to raise as many as his heifers as I wanted. Some times you only have to ask, but then you have to prove yourself. Not sure about giving the website to find Recover, but it is the only place that you can buy it. www.innovatorsllc.net


----------



## Nickxr100

myersfarm said:


> Ok here is what I do
> 
> I buy everything other people do not buy and I also buy everything you would buy
> 
> I buy 15 to 30 at a time ....but this is my 6 year doing this
> 
> A sale barn calf and a home bught calf are two totally different animals treated the same way the sale barn will die with a sale barn calf you have hours not days as a farm raised calf you have
> 
> 
> I put 5 calves in a pen thats 5 calfs that usually cost me and average of $150 if i raise 3 of the 5 I make lots of money if get lucky and raise 4 of 5 then i really make a lot of money on that pen....I also buy the highest calfs at the sale barn those sell for a average of $400 put them in pen of 5 if I raise all 5 then I really make money on that pen ...
> 
> my usual average on the price of calves is $260 a calf thats the price I have in the LIVE CAlFS thats like buying 10 for $250 thats $2500 if I lost 2 then the average is $312
> 
> the best time to buy calfs is from October to January during the holidays when nobody wants to feed calfs on Christmas day Thanksgiving or New Years day
> 
> 
> I give a shot of 1 cc batamine and 2 cc of LA200 when I put them in my trailer..as most time they have a 6 hour trip before they get to my house
> 
> I feed colostrum the first meal home then i feed Milk Replacer for the first 3 days then go to my Jersey Milk gradually
> 
> What you have to learn is what you have when you unload form the trailer
> 
> who needs what Calfs are like kids they can not tell you only show you they feel bad....I set out there every day for a hour watching the calfs see who is the last to the milk bar if the calfs swap on being last they get a shot
> 
> never believe that they will get better believe they will die in the night as they will
> 
> the way the coat on a calf lays tells me a lot about whats going on with the calf
> 
> A calf that cleans n it own coat does not need anything one that does not will die very fast
> 
> 
> A calf when it sucks holds it's head high will be sick soon
> 
> A calf that does not meet you at the gate will be sick soon
> 
> A calf will die before you can go buy and get back with what you need so have it on hand now.
> 
> 
> just my 2 cents
> 
> 
> I have 31 on milk right now next week will be down to 20 on milk and be buying more
> tjm


----------



## Nickxr100

What weight do you sell them at


----------



## Danaus29

Nickxr100 said:


> What weight do you sell them at


The member you quoted has not logged into this forum since 2013.


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## Jsb2id

LittleRedHen said:


> Most auctions will not let you check up the animals up close I don't think. We can walk overhead and peer down at the animals but we cannot go up to them and inspect them whatsoever. You just gotta have good eyes and look from 50 feet away
> 
> And personally, I think to buy two means at least you have half a chance at having a calf still in 2 weeks. I am pessimistic though as I just had to bury two jersey calves I bought at the auction 10 days ago. I have bought 5 calves at the auction this year and only one lives. The stress is really hard on them.
> 
> Btw.. I lost all four to pnemonia. One in February.. One in October and two December. Keep them dry and out of drafts. Buy a fluid feeder that has a tube on it. It is sooo useful as not all calves want to eat when they need to. Heat lamp is a good tool.


Bottle of penicillin on hand doesn’t hurt either


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## 101pigs

topside1 said:


> Hopefully other folks will join in on this thread so that it can become a sticky. Need advice on housing, feeding, vaccinations, common illnesses, castration, disbudding, and of course more....hope you can find the time...topside


----------



## LoveChrist

ksmith2006 said:


> I totally agree with these comments, especially about stress associated with sale barn calves. I only bought at sales barns as a last resort. These calves are subjected to so much stress you are bound to have numerous health problems. The one thing that I do to combat stress and sickness is to drench them for several days with a product called Recover. This is an all natural nutritional supplement that you can also add to their milk replacer. I have saved many sale barn calves this way. I prefer to go arouns to my local dairies and talk with the owners. I started raising calves when I was a young kid. I went to one dairy and wanted to buy a Brown Swiss heifer calf. He stated that he raises his own heifers, but would give me a one time chance. The only stipulation was that he had first chance at buying it back. Well he so liked what I did that he asked me to raise as many as his heifers as I wanted. Some times you only have to ask, but then you have to prove yourself. Not sure about giving the website to find Recover, but it is the only place that you can buy it. www.innovatorsllc.net


We used a product called bounce back for one of our calve that wasn't doing well. He is now (a few weeks later) doing a lot better. I have found that you can buy bounce back at most feed stores.


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## muleskinner2

I wouldn't bring a calf home from a sale barn if they were giving them away free. A sale barn is a petri dish of disease. My dad used to go to the sale barn, and buy calves in the parking lot, before they were unloaded. The best way is to pick them up from the dairy, when they are less than twelve hours old.


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