# alternative to Rx for high cholestral?



## motdaugrnds (Jul 3, 2002)

I am thinking a new diet might reduce my cholestral. Last visit to lab showed 

Total cholesteral = 234 (normal is 200)
Triglycerides = 403 (normal is 55-250)
HDL (good cholesterol) = 31 (normal is 35-85)

Does anyone have any experience in actually reducing cholesteral by changing diet?


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## rxkeith (Apr 13, 2009)

my wife and i have lots of experience with reducing cholesterol based on dietary modification. my wife topped out at 366. mine was around 234. my wife eats a vegan diet. i eat pretty much the same 90 % of the time which has enabled me to get off medication for hypertension. our cholesterol is fine now. the changes we have made evolved over a number of years as we have learned more and more about diet and how it affects health, and disease. before you make any big changes, i would suggest having a plan of action to make things easier for you. sign up for dr john mcdougalls newsletter, its free. drmcdougall.com is his website.
get some vegetarian cook books from the library, and start trying some recipes. set a modest goal of going meatless one or two days a week, and increase from there as you discover more recipes you like. you may experience cravings for certain unhealthy foods during the beginning of your change. they will go away after a few weeks. we have a 6 year old son. he eats a vegetarian diet. we are all happy and healthy.

my wife and i are both pharmacists. knowing what we know about drugs, and side effects, we avoid them. eating the way we do, there isn't any need to take them. drugs don't cure high cholesterol, hypertension, diabetes or heart disease. they only manage them. diet, and lifestyle changes can prevent and reverse all of them. that is really powerful knowledge.



keith


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## greif (May 31, 2009)

grapefruit


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## Wisconsin Ann (Feb 27, 2007)

I've done it successfully and helped a couple of other people work on theirs. It's not hard.

Oatmeal for breakfast, or actually any of the oats type cereals actually works well. (it's also extremely filling)

Fish. 2x a week or more. Oily fish specially..like tuna or salmon. I like salmon poached in white wine with tarragon and onions. 

use olive oil in place of vegetable oil in/on stuff. You'd be amazed at the amount of HDL that helps with.

Pastured/free range eggs. yes, eggs. High in the omega3s, low in the bad cholesterol..and full of protein and nutrients. I scramble eggs without oil..often just pouring them over a pan of heated chinese veggies. 

If you're over weight, lose some. That all by itself will help lower the LDLs. Cutting out some of the fats will help tremendously.

Whole grain breads. Tremendous difference. You can make whole grain "cookies" that help, too. I think there are some recipes on the web for them, but what I do is stone ground wheat, rolled oats (not quick oats), rolled barley(can be hard to find), and some rice flour. mix it up, then mash in either apples, carrots or both. (grind them in a blender and they're great). Press the stuff into molds or just pat it into little cakes. Bake at 350 until brown-ish. Don't make a LOT at one time until you have a recipe you like. Add in raisins if you like. 

Lots more things like that which help. For me it was a combination of losing weight, eating more fish and the olive oil. Olive oil with tarragon or rosemary in it (soaked a while) and then used to pop popcorn in is FANTASTIC! by the way


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## motdaugrnds (Jul 3, 2002)

Thank you all so much.

I have made a note to visit that mcdougalls site; and have actually had a few good-tasting vegetarian meals; however, I remember the ingredients being rather expensive and, thus, is no longer an option.

I am already using olive oil (also coconut oil); but will start cutting out the vegetable oil.

I already enjoy the whole grain breads (store bought though).

I only eat our own chicken eggs (all chickens free range); but maybe I'm eating too many as I have been enjoying 2 a day cooked in coconut oil, seasoned with ground flaxseed.

I have been eating tuna (packaged from store) and pink salmon (canned from store), though I have been frying the salmon (mixed with eggs and stone-ground cornmeal) in vegetable oil, which I will now stop.

I am overweight, 155 lbs and am 5'7" tall; so will work at losing some pounds.

I eat only home grown meat (goat and chicken) and will make sure I take off all the fatty parts from now on and let the left overs cool before making stews or soups so I can skim off the fat that comes to the top.

I appreciate so much the information you all have given me. I stopped taking Lipitor awhile back when my cholestrol was much lower (had been drinking much goat milk). When we started letting the baby goats get most of the milk, my cholestrol went up. Thus, I will start competing with the kids for some milk now. ROFL (Could easily milk each of 3 does to get a gallon of milk a day as each are heavy milkers; and this would leave plenty "all" day long for the baby goats.)

Again, thank you all.


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## Terri (May 10, 2002)

motdaugrnds said:


> I am thinking a new diet might reduce my cholestral. Last visit to lab showed
> 
> Total cholesteral = 234 (normal is 200)
> Triglycerides = 403 (normal is 55-250)
> ...


The high triglycerides mean that you are having trouble controlling your blood sugar. Extra triglycerides are formed when your blood sugar goes over 170.

To control your triglycerides, snack more but eat less carbohydrates at each meal. Eat more unsaturated fat (fish, lean meat, ham, white meat poultry, olive oil). 

I found that it helped to eat one egg in the morning, with toast. That is a tiny breakfast but of course I ate more food mid-morning. Lunch was a sandwich plus whatever, afternoon snack, a dinner where I ate more lean meat and cut down on the carbs, and a bedtime snack. 

My triglycerides went from 577 to normal. And, if you are thinking that this looks a lot like the diabetic diet, you are correct. My triglycerides were so high because I was prediabetic. 

I took the diabetic diet and I tweaked it a bit: less food in the AM and a little more in the PM. This corrected some blood sugar swings.
By eating the meat protien and healthy fats you are not eating so many carbs.

Stay away from the low-fat diet: with your numbers it is not for you. You NEED the fat so that you are not living on carbs: just make it HEALTHY fat like the olive oil you are using, and the fat that comes with the healthy meat like fish and chicken breasts. I THINK that goat meat is also lean but I really do not know? 

My B/P, by the way, started at 210/110 When I was not on the pills). I gradually needed fewer meds for that and I stopped taking them because without the pills I was 120/70. 

Aging continues, of course. After some years, I have started on the B/P meds again, and I am now started on crestor. But, it did work for some years.


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## VegRN (Jun 23, 2010)

Also, regular exercise goes a long way towards improving your labs. Start with a 30 minute walk and work up to 2 30 minute walks daily.


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## kyweaver (Nov 30, 2009)

Exercise is the only thing that will significantly improve your HDL.
Oats work wonders. If you don't like regular oatmeal, try steel-cut oats. They are much tastier and help your cholesterol even more than rolled oats.


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## motdaugrnds (Jul 3, 2002)

Terri, "The high triglycerides mean that you are having trouble controlling your blood sugar. Extra triglycerides are formed when your blood sugar goes over 170." [My test work showed my "glucose (blood sugar) to be 111 (normal is 74-100).]

Yes, goat meat is very lean; however, I always trim off any fat I find anyway. (I also eat our farm eggs from free-range chickens cooked in Coconut Oil.)

VegRN, "...regular exercise goes a long way towards improving your labs..." (Does farm work count? I walk an acre to tend bucks each morning, hoe a 200' x 300' garden, climb up/down steps to get grain for does each morning. These are daily. On top of this I have digging 2'holes to place studs in for a 15' x 8' shed I'm building and just transferred 12 marigolds from pots to acreage. I also comb the dogs, hand carry a bag of hay over an acre daily & tend baby chicks. This is just the "outdoor" tasks.)

Obviously I'm doing (or not doing something) that sent my triglycerides up and lowered my HDL (good cholesterol). I just cannot find what it is. Am wondering about the breads (whole grain mostly) and I have been using the vegetable oil too much. Also been using the fat cooked out of our home-grown chickens to make soup out of (without skimming most of it off first). Other than that, I'm stumped as to what I am doing wrong.


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## Terri (May 10, 2002)

motdaugrnds said:


> [My test work showed my "glucose (blood sugar) to be 111 (normal is 74-100).]
> .


At that moment it was 111: blood glucose goes up and down throughout the day.

I was sent home with a blood test kit: it turned out that after my low-fat breakfast (cheerios) my blood sugar was 200. The rest of the day I was within the normal range. 

When I switched my breakfast to toast and an egg, followed a couple of hours later with a snack, I was just fine.

Triglycerides are made up of 3 sugar molecules and one fat molecule. It is much easier to lower your triglycerides by keeping your blood sugar lower than it is by restricting fats. Much easier.


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## jamala (May 4, 2007)

I made my dr. say "WOW how did you do that" when he tested mine last year. My chol was 230 and Tri's. were 550. He wanted me on meds immediatly but I told him to give me 2 months. 1 month later My chol. was down to 155 and my tri. were down. to 300! ALL I did was walk for 30-40 min. each day no matter what. Cut out ALL soft drinks, only drank water and cut out ALL red meat. I ate lots of ground turkey, even had a turkey burger on the forth of July. It was painless and became a good lifestyle change for me. My hubby still prefers meds and wants his red meat, and fast food and pops his pill daily for high BP and High Chol. Oh and I only ate rice and potatoes for my carbs. No breads.


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## EasyDay (Aug 28, 2004)

Among all of these suggestions, I didn't see a glass of red wine every day. (Did I miss it?) This is from both my MD and my holistic doc.


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## Terri (May 10, 2002)

EasyDay said:


> Among all of these suggestions, I didn't see a glass of red wine every day. (Did I miss it?) This is from both my MD and my holistic doc.


Because I have heard it but I have never personally tried it! I don't much like it.


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## motdaugrnds (Jul 3, 2002)

Wow I am getting much to consider. I have been drinking a lot of soda (Big Red and Vistage put out by Mountain Dew) and am now wondering if this is why my cholestral is high.

Also, I was told whole grain "cheerios" was a healthy breakfast; yet switching to an egg & toast seems better.

I have, also, heard of drinking a glass of red wine a day.

Changes gonna make now are:

1. No more sodas (orange and grapefruit juice with G-2 gateraid instead)
2. No more cheerios (home grown & free-range chicken eggs instead)
3. "One" glass of red wine daily (Can I drink just "one"? ROFL)
4. Daily 30-40 min walks (Can even do this standing still in air conditioned room.)

Thank you all for giving me much to consider and experiment with.


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## Terri (May 10, 2002)

No more soda unless it is diet: no more gatorade unless it is diet!

Drink juice from a 6 ounce glass: fructose is sugar also. Juice is less sweet than sprite but it is still sweet, so use in moderation. I still drink juice but in a very small glass.

Ice water with a twist of lemon is good, and believe it or not, with slices of cucumber for variety. I like diet pop, but, some people are not comfortable with nutrasweet.

Cheerios are good for some people but too rich for breakfast for someone who is, in the words of my doc, "Sugar-intolerant" like I am.


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## Old Swampgirl (Sep 28, 2008)

Low carb diet will increase your HDL's, so that might help that. You also might try Mega Red, which is krill oil based, as well as 2000mg of omega 3 from fish oil, niacin and a good B complex. Exercise, of course, would be helpful also.


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## EasyDay (Aug 28, 2004)

Terri said:


> Because I have heard it but I have never personally tried it! I don't much like it.


I don't care for red wines, either, so I don't drink it. Just mentioned it because both of my docs said it. Some people would be GLAD to hear it!


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## rxkeith (Apr 13, 2009)

eating a vegetarian diet is about the cheapest way i know of to eat. the most expensive thing we buy is nuts.

your body gets cholesterol 2 ways.

we make it.
we eat it.
thats it.

any kind of meat or animal products you eat is going to have cholesterol.
think of milk as liquid fat.
a diet high in meat or fat is going to lead to high cholesterol in most people.
the body will convert excess sugar to fat. soft drinks are bad. drink water instead.
eliminate oil from your diet.
think again about consuming fish. most of the fish out there has mercury or some other contaminants in it. farm raised salmon pollutes the environment, and just isn't that good in my opinion.
hold off on the wine. the sugar and alcohol in it can increase your triglycerides even more.

if you truly want to lower your cholesterol you need to decrease the meat and fat in your diet. eat more grains, legumes, and veggies.
if you have family risk factors such as one or more immediate family members with heart disease or stroke, 200 is too high for cholesterol. drs would want you to be around 150, so keep that in mind regarding normal levels.
i don't get too concerned about hdl levels if your cholesterol is under control. i look at it this way. ldl cholsterol is bad. its garbage. hdl cholesterol is good. its the garbage truck. if you have a lot of garbage in your body, then you need more garbage trucks to get rid if it. don't get stuck on hdl levels. look at the total picture.

my wife and i have talked to people at work about trying to improve their health through diet and lifestyle changes. some people have said they would rather die than eat the way we do. well, you know what? they are going to get their wish. they will continue to come to the pharmacy, and get their bag o meds, and they will gradually get worse, and worse. i have seen it over and over through the years. i am healthier now, at 50 than i was 20 years ago. thats the direction i want to go.
everyone has to make their own choice on how they want to live. i understand that and respect that. i just want people to know they have options.



keith


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## mekasmom (Jan 19, 2010)

Terri said:


> Triglycerides are made up of 3 sugar molecules and one fat molecule. It is much easier to lower your triglycerides by keeping your blood sugar lower than it is by restricting fats. Much easier.


The lady is right.
Lowering triglycerides has nothing to do with lowering fat intake and everything to do with carbohydrate intake. Fats are not evil things. You need them. Just avoid trans fats, and lower your carb intake. You will see a faster and more noticeable improvement in your blood cholesterol levels and triglycerides than you will trying a low fat diet. IT's all about sugar, not fat.


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## motdaugrnds (Jul 3, 2002)

Thank you for more information. Guess "moderation" is the key here.

Cannot stand the aftertaste of diet drinks. Will try the lemon water instead. (Can I add "Splenda" to it?)

I never considered the sugar relative to high cholestral; only the fat. I do watch my sugar intake because I have had hypoglysemia for many years. However, recently (say the last 7-8 months) have been drinking way too many sodas. This will stop!

I absolutely agree a vegetarian diet is the healthiest way to eat. It just isn't for me; however, I can and will trim our home-raised meats of all fats and stop making gravy from their juices.

Hugs to all


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## Terri (May 10, 2002)

As we get older, our bodies do not work as well. That is a fact.

In my case, I do not handle carbs as well and so I needed to eat less of them at one time, as my pancreas could no longer deal with that much all at once. In some one ELSES' case, they might handle sugar just FINE but not handle fat well at all!

Motdaugrnds, your past trouble with hypoglycemia and your fasting blood sugar of 111 makes me think that your body no longer deals with carbs the way that it once did. Me, neither. So, I eat my carbs a little at a time, to avoid pushing my system. 

I am just not as young as I used to be: I am in my 50's. I can no longer eat 3000 calories and be too thin: I can no longer eat vegetarian spagetti and finish off with ice cream. That is more than my body can deal with.

So, I eat a LITTLE spagetti and eat meatballs with it, and save the second helping for a bedtime snack. By breaking the carbs into manageble chunks my triglycerides stay down.

Other people have bodies that show age in different areas: Cheerios and a low fat diet really DO help many people. Just NOT me. And, since your blood tests and history of hypoglycemia is so similar to what mine once was, probably not you, either.


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## Terri (May 10, 2002)

motdaugrnds said:


> Cannot stand the aftertaste of diet drinks. Will try the lemon water instead. (Can I add "Splenda" to it?)
> l


YUCK! I HATE Splenda!

But, yes!!!!!!!!!


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## motdaugrnds (Jul 3, 2002)

So smaller meals; but can eat more often. OK


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## marvella (Oct 12, 2003)

Terri said:


> The high triglycerides mean that you are having trouble controlling your blood sugar. Extra triglycerides are formed when your blood sugar goes over 170.
> 
> To control your triglycerides, snack more but eat less carbohydrates at each meal. Eat more unsaturated fat (fish, lean meat, ham, white meat poultry, olive oil).
> 
> ...



this is what i was going to say. get your blood sugar undercontrol. it may not show up on fasting blood work your doctor may do. one sign of prediabetes is a spike in blood sugar AFTER meals. a normal person sugar will not go up over 120 or so after a meal, even a high sugar meal. a prediabetic will go up over 12o but return to normal after several hours. these spikes in blood sugar also raise the triglycerides in your blood.


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## marvella (Oct 12, 2003)

i bet it is the sodas you drink. those things are lethal espcially if they are sweetned with high fructose corn syrup. most are. i bet if you just quit doing that, most of your problem will be solved. my pov is it's easier to make changes by doing one thing at a time. trying to change everything all at once is overwhelming to some people. for others it's the only way.

you've gotten excellent advice on here.

but i love splenda. if you like your morning oats sweet i've found i can put 2 tsps in the cooking water, then top with two more tsps and fresh berries. gets my whole day off to a good start.


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## Terri (May 10, 2002)

motdaugrnds said:


> So smaller meals; but can eat more often. OK


Exactly! 

And, you MUST eat more often. You can eat a small snack if you chose, but if you SKIP a snack you will tend to binge on your next meal.


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## motdaugrnds (Jul 3, 2002)

Yes, I have come to the same conclusion, i.e. the soda pops.

I rarely eat sugar or sweets; but I have been drinking way too many soft drinks.

So, present plan now is:

1. No more soft drinks! Water seasoned with lemon juice and splenda instead)

2. Small meals every 2-3 hours! (Gosh this will be hard. I love to cook and love to eat too.)

3. No more gravy made with what cooks off my meat dishes without first letting it cool and skimming off the fat that rises to the top.

4. daily 30-50 min walks (probably in front of the TV as it is too hot here this time of year)

5. Thinking I can snack on "dry" oatmeal. I love the stuff and it certainly is filling.


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## dezeeuwgoats (Jan 12, 2006)

You can try a liquid stevia for a natural sweetener with absolutely no calories. It is far better for you than artificial sweeteners. Also, I have found that the fake sweeteners, as well as caffeine will raise my blood sugar and keep it raised for awhile. I HATE the powdered stevia, but the liquid I have been able to use and no bitter taste. It's been a life saver when craving something sweet to drink (soda water, lemon, stevia, or decaf iced tea with stevia).

There's a book called Death to Diabetes which includes lifestyle changes that are really working for me - the weight is melting off, no cravings, and my blood sugar has dropped seventy points...I bought the book -and it is very comprehensive, but the web site offers pdf files, and a good amount of basic info if you sift through the pages.


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## mekasmom (Jan 19, 2010)

Niacin (the regular, not flush free) will lower LDL if taken in high doses. It doesn't help triglycerides. They are helped by a low carb diet, NOT low fat, but low carb.


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## motdaugrnds (Jul 3, 2002)

Thank you both so much for the additional information. I can already tell something is different in that I can be outdoors longer now (quite hot here this time of year) without my body giving way.


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## ChristieAcres (Apr 11, 2009)

Dropping sugar has been proven to help with high cholesterol. I don't eat sugar, empty carbs, don't don't drink soda or alcohol, limit fat intake, and it dropped my cholesterol, dropped all the weight very easily, without even increasing my activity level by much. That was almost two years ago, and I haven't put the weight back on (20#s). I also drink Kefir Smoothies every day. Diet? I eat a lot of fruit veggies, eggs, dairy, all kinds of different meats, and enjoy a good steak once in a while. My health? Blood tests are great and in excellent health.


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## motdaugrnds (Jul 3, 2002)

Lorichristie, what is a "Kefir Smoothy"?


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## Harry Chickpea (Dec 19, 2008)

Publix has a line of flavored club sodas that are nothing but carbonated water and flavorings. They have learned that when those are on sale I can be depended upon to get a cart full. The lemon lime is fine, and if I want to tart it up a bit I add a splash of grapefruit juice. High fructose corn syrup is evil stuff.

I applaud all the healthy alternatives listed above, especially as they keep the drug pushers at bay.

Unless you have already had a heart attack, cholesterol levels are merely a documented POOR indicator of longevity based on heart/artery issues. Do some research on your own, read the original studies, and discover for yourself what the supposed increase in lifespan actually is between folks with high (over 225) and low (200 or under). You will ask yourself --- is all the fuss about??? Then look at the research on the effects of statins vs. plain old cod liver oil on reducing heart/artery issues, and the side effects of the two treatments, and you will likely go back to "mamma knew best." 

Statins are the current cash cow for drug syndicates and drug lords (whoops, I meant to say drug companies...) If you are old enough, you'll remember some of their earlier promotions - like providing reports that cigarettes are safe, and that fav. of the 1960s, Milltown, which kept a nation of upper class housewives drugged out and passive. Now a group of "doctors" wants to promote reducing cholesterol in kids. Maybe it is because cholesterol is REQUIRED to build the brain - the brain IS largely cholesterol. What better way to make dumb adult consumers who are hooked on drugs that keep them dumb?


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## ChristieAcres (Apr 11, 2009)

> motdaugrnds- Lorichristie, what is a "Kefir Smoothy"?


http://users.chariot.net.au/~dna/kefirpage.html#what-is-kefir

The link above is very informative and defines what Kefir Grains are. I use Milk Kefir Grains to produce Kefir Milk with. I then use that Kefir Milk with bananas, blueberries, ice, honey, and whatever else I want to add.

Chickpea- I remember Grandma with her Cod Liver Oil... I've also known people to live very long lives with "high cholesterol..." The body does manufacture it and it is needed. It kind of reminds me of those hormone tests... I was told many years ago that my Estrogen level was too low, based on their required levels. Never took the Estrogen pills, either. I am aging just fine and it just turns out my levels were totally okay for me. Diet, nutrition, and exercise... I don't take any prescriptions unless they are absolutely necessary.


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## motdaugrnds (Jul 3, 2002)

Thanks for the link Christie. I will definately check it out.


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## Fla Gal (Jul 14, 2003)

motdaugrnds said:


> Does anyone have any experience in actually reducing cholesteral by changing diet?


At one time my cholesterol was at 394. My doctor freaked and acted like I was ready to die. I felt far from it. He prescribed Welchol, an equivalent of Lipitor, but according to him, didn't mess up your liver.

I thought ok, I can do this for a while. I had to go back to the doctor about two weeks later for a check up and asked how long I was supposed to take this medication. I was told "For the rest of your life". NOT!

One of the side effects of the drug was constipation. At the time of that office visit I'd gone from daily regularity to once in five days. Didn't tell them that because I didn't want them wasting their time or my money on another prescription I had to take 'for the rest of my life' for constipation. I threw the remaining pills away and changed my diet.

Not once did my doctor ask me about me about my diet. I knew my diet was wacky. I'd fry up half a pound of organic bacon, make gravy from ALL the fat and eat it all at one meal. I did that once week. That and biscuits and sausage gravy, deep fried chicken, etc, etc wasn't the best diet for anyone.

After I threw the pills away I changed my diet. Within six months my cholesterol went from 394 to 324. It's probably lower than that now. I have no clue what it is since I don't have insurance and haven't been to a doctor for quite a while.

I haven't completely cut fat out of my diet because a healthy diet means consuming some fat. The fat I consume now is olive oil, butter and sometimes bacon fat.

Yes you can change your cholesterol level with diet changes. I wouldn't say go the tofu route but eat a lot of veggies, some meat, eggs, dairy, grains and legumes.


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## EasyDay (Aug 28, 2004)

... and fish. Eat fish at least twice a week.

Fla Gal, 324 is still amazingly high. (Is that just your LDLs, or your total numbers?) It wouldn't hurt for you to have your doc check for accumulation in your carotid arteries, just in case. My dad died at 48 y/o because they didn't know anything about cholesterol back then (early 70s). It is partially hereditary, and I got it... so did my bro.


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## Zephaniah (Mar 16, 2010)

My Trig went to over 500 and I had an MI episode and stent put in in 2004. I just recieved my Cardio report and they cannot find ANY evidence of an MI

For Cholesterol since then

Cut the Sugar. This is the triglyceride component of Cholesterol. I mean none. Xylotol is an alcohol sugar that is a good substitute. Does not use insulin to breakdown
Cut the alcohol. This is also the triglyceride component. A ( as in 1 glass of red wine might be OK)
Lay off the animal fats
lay on the natural fats as in eggs, avocados, nuts in moderation
Lay off the meats especially red but as much as you can any except fish
take 
Garlic
Red rice yeast
Vitamin E
Policosanol
Fish oil
as much Niacin as you can handle up to 2 -3 grams a day - NOT the no-flush kind. Take 4 times a day, with cold water or with meal to reduce flush component. watch for gout by use of niacin

Plenty of exercise. 

What worked for me , your mileage may differ


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## MoonRiver (Sep 2, 2007)

Flax meal. Great for muffins and pancakes or to sprinkle over cereal and salads.


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## crunchy_mama (Aug 7, 2010)

As to the lower carb diets you might want to check out the site:

www.marksdailyapple.com

TONS of info there and specifically information about how and what effects cholesterol(especially on the forum there is a cholesterol primer that is especially good). My dh has to have a health screening every year and with it comes literature about what all the numbers mean and what you can do to improve them. It is very mainstream info from the health insurance company- it tells you that you need to cut the sugar to improve your cholesterol numbers. 

Too many people than I can count that have had their cholesterol numbers improve following a 'primal' lifestyle(advocated on MDA). It is a paleo type diet- meat, veggies, fruits, nuts- some dairy. NOTHING low fat BUT everything all natural. Animals that are raised grassfed are preferable as it changes the fatty acid profile CAFO meat is high in Omega 6's whereas grassfed eggs, meats etc are high in Omega 3s. Red meat isn't the devil. 

I think that we aren't necessarily designed to eat the same diet but the closer you can get to a natural diet the better and with your numbers cutting the carbs/sugar. (JMO  )


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## motdaugrnds (Jul 3, 2002)

Cutting out the sugars is doing it for me. ))))

Still have not found a drink I like though and really need to!


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## How Do I (Feb 11, 2008)

_Eat more fiber_ and study up on healthy and unhealthy fats. You might want to read up on the Mediterranean Diet. Even if you start replacing just a few of the bad foods with the good, you will start to notice a difference.


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## simplepeace (Oct 29, 2005)

Have you tried flavored herbal teas? Most can be made into iced tea if you like - especially the fruit flavors. I use stevia if I want it sweet. 

I have tried almost all of the Celestial Seasonings flavors. I really like most of them, especially the English Toffee (kind of sweet even without sweetner) & Sleepytime. I also just tried STASH brand Chocolte Mint tea and love it too. 



motdaugrnds said:


> Cutting out the sugars is doing it for me. ))))
> 
> Still have not found a drink I like though and really need to!


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## motdaugrnds (Jul 3, 2002)

Thank you simplepeace, I had forgotten about herbal teas. Many years ago I use to drink an assortment of them. I will check into those next time I get to town. (I still have "splenda" I have been using to sweeten dishes with. Anyone know a better choice?)


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## simplepeace (Oct 29, 2005)

I have tried "Stevia in the raw" and "Sweetleaf (stevia plus)" and thought they were pretty good alternatives to splenda. Supposedly Stevia is better for you, I don't know about the 2brands I have tried. The Sweetleaf has a few additives, but I don't have the ingredients for Stevia in the raw. Hopefully someone knows?
Any luck with the herbal teas?


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## rxkeith (Apr 13, 2009)

i'll pop in one more time. 

if you want to minimize health problems, and maximize feeling good, then start reading what dr joel fuhrman has to say. my wife has met both dr mcdougall, and dr fuhrman at week long conferences. fuhrman has a better plan in her opinion, more compassion toward people too. his son and my son were pretty good play mates during the conference. we may have a play date with them when we go to joisey later in the week to visit friends. mcdougall is the pioneer in nutrition based health. fuhrman takes it one step further.


keith


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## motdaugrnds (Jul 3, 2002)

Thanks rxkeith, I will do a little reading about what fuhrman has to say.

Have not had an opportunity to get to town for some herbal teasyet; but will next month. Have no herbs growing on the place at this time, though will be planting some next year.


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## motdaugrnds (Jul 3, 2002)

Found a drink called "G-2". It is suppose to be a form of gateraid and is supposedly healthy. It's primary ingredients are water first; then "sucrose", which I believe is exactly the sugar I am trying to stay clear of.

Purchased some herbal teas; yet need some kind of sweetner with most of them. Still using up the Splenda we have.

Have contacted Dom & Sandra in Australia about ordering Kefir grains; have not heard from them yet. (Is there any place in the USA that sells "quality" kefir grains?)


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## ChristieAcres (Apr 11, 2009)

> motdaugrnds- Have contacted Dom & Sandra in Australia about ordering Kefir grains; have not heard from them yet. (Is there any place in the USA that sells "quality" kefir grains?)


I have (1) order of Kefir Grains. These are a very healthy strain & yes, I am in the US. I sell only a few orders per month. There are enough grains to process (1) quart of whole milk OR goats milk. They are $10 including postage.


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## whodunit (Mar 29, 2004)

I was told to take 1000 mg fish oil (work up to three a day), exercise and lose weight...am making some changes. Got the fish oil going, but still working on the rest. I'll be interested to see if it works. I was just considered "high normal", so RNP did not recommend meds.


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## motdaugrnds (Jul 3, 2002)

lorichristie, $10 per quart? I would never pay that for a drink!


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## ChristieAcres (Apr 11, 2009)

> motgaugrnds- lorichristie, $10 per quart? I would never pay that for a drink!


:hysterical: Neither would I!!!!!!!!!!! Thanks, really, had a rough few days and needed a laugh 

Have you googled Kefir Grains? Do you know how they work and how long they last? I got my superior Kefir Grains 1.5 years ago. They are the SAME grains... You put the Kefir Grains in a quart mason jar, add whole milk or goats milk, place cheesecloth or paper towel, and secure with ring. You wait 24 hours, and you have Kefir Milk:banana02: You then strain the Kefir Milk, put the Kefir Grains right back in the jar and repeat the process. If you take care of your Kefir Grains, you NEVER have to replace them. BTW- this was the "continual method." In just one year, I have had 365 quarts of Kefir Milk from my Kefir Grains.

Here is what I wrote:



> There are enough grains to process (1) quart of whole milk OR goats milk. They are $10 including postage.


Most people who sell Kefir Grains sell them for $5 for ONLY ONE GRAIN. That may process less than only a PINT of milk. I sell enough to process a QUART. Usually, there is a waiting list for my grains. I only happened to have (1) extra order. If you want it, please let me know.


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## motdaugrnds (Jul 3, 2002)

Thank you so much for explaining that to me. Since the grains can be used over and over like that, $10 does not sound like much. 

You stated, "...If you take care of your Kefir Grains, you NEVER have to replace them..."

Truly? (Sounds kind like the way my grandmother kept her yeast.)

What do you do to "take care" of Kefir Grains?


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## ChristieAcres (Apr 11, 2009)

Good comparison- your grandmother's yeast. Okay, the method I described- continuous. Giving fresh whole milk to the Kefir Grains feeds them. Their job is to ferment your milk into a very nutritious healthy source. It is (5) times better for you than yogurt, also is a probiotic, and contains 30 vitamins/minerals (according to online sources).

All that is required to keep Kefir Milk Grains alive is to feed them and make sure they don't get too hot. Kefir Grains seem to work best in 70F to around 85F. They should be kept in a warm dark place. I keep mine on top of a shelf unit in my dining room. You can also put them in a cupboard. When not in use for any reason, they should then be kept in the fridge and the milk changed every week. I still have my Kefir Grains after 1.5 years and a lot of other people now have them, who got them from me. 

Dom's Kefir Website is the best I have found for info.

I am shipping out boxes on Tuesday (Comfrey Plants & Kefir Grains). So, if you would like to get some Kefir Grains, I take Paypal to [email protected] That way, I could ship to you on Tuesday when I go. Every week, I make one trip to the Post Office.


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## motdaugrnds (Jul 3, 2002)

Lorichristie, you are very kind in giving me the information. Thank you so much.

I have already made contact with the originator of this grain & am now trying to decide which is the best item(s) to get and which method of shipment would be best for me, i.e. fresh or dry.

I know I want the book
I know I want the "milk kefir-grains"

I am wondering if I "need" the "sugary kefir-grains" for any reason. Do you use this item?

There are so many items to choose from and my funds are so limited that I need to make informed decisions in order not to waste money.

It would help me decide if I knew what you and/or others have used and how. I am so new to all this and I usually do most things wrong the first time; so I am hoping to not do so in regard to this order as it is quite expensive.

I suspect I need to order the "dry" kefir-grains; but how then do I "activate"?? it, turning it into "fresh"? (Isn't it only the "fresh" that can actually be used?)

As a side note: David is thinking he can find out what to grow to make our own kefir grains. I told him I don't think we can; but would ask if anyone in the forums have tried; so I'm asking: Anyone ever grown stuff to make their own with & been successful?


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## pattishadow (Feb 12, 2010)

Take Lorichristie up on her offer, they will be fresher and ready to go. I bought some that were $20. dollors. With your fresh goat milk you will be able to make awesome kefir.
Dom's is probably great but there will be more to getting his active.

Pattishadow


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## ChristieAcres (Apr 11, 2009)

Your welcome. Kefir Grains are living organisms and they originate in different areas of the world. Mine is a superior strain, which I have told you before and I was very fortunate to get them. You can't "make them," and this has scientifically been proven. They aren't the results of ingredients, but are alive. You have to start with Kefir Grains, which is like a culture, then do everything I wrote. It is VERY simple.

What you are bringing up with sugar can ONLY be Water Kefir, which I do not use. I don't eat processed sugars and Milk Kefir doesn't require ANY sugar, only whole milk or goats milk. 

If you are on a budget, there is no need at all for a book. There is so much free information on Kefir Milk, it is amazing. Also, the best site is the one I already gave you (Dom's Kefir Website). Recipes? All FREE and online. 

I ship live Kefir Grains and 100% have made the trip with flying colors (I don't dry them since I don't ship outside of our Country). There are a number of HTer's who received Kefir Grains from me. They are strained, placed in a quart jar of whole milk or goats milk, cheesecloth covered & ring to secure. Kefir Milk in 24 to 48 hours, can't be simpler. After that, every 24 hours, you repeat the process. When the Grains multiply, which they do, share them with friends/family or sell your extra ones. I sell mine as fast as I can, so I don't have to support more "dependents..."


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## motdaugrnds (Jul 3, 2002)

What do you mean "...multiply..." 

I am guessing the "size" of the grains increases. Is this true?

Ok, you sold me! I would like to get some from you, Lorichristie if you still have some. I have only used PayPal to sell my jewlry; never to purchase anything. Thus, I am not sure how; but I will ask David. I understand enough to process a quart would cost $10 plus shipping. I live in Virginia. Let me know total and I will get David to use PayPal to send it to you. (I will send you our personal address in a private message.)


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## ChristieAcres (Apr 11, 2009)

The Kefir Grains grow in size and multiply in number. I'll try to post a picture after dinner, so check back to see it. The price is $10 including shipping. Paypal has an option to SEND MONEY then you have to type in an email address and mine is [email protected] I am heading to the Post Office tomorrow afternoon and then not again until next Monday.

Since I drink Kefir Smoothies every day, I do make different kinds. I add bananas to every smoothie, and then either Blueberries, Strawberries, Marionberries, Blackberries or I will add an extra banana, alcohol free vanilla, nutmeg and have an "Banana Nog Smoothie." I regularly use my extra Kefir milk to made salad dressings, dips, and use in the place of buttermilk in my recipes when cooking. The Probiotic benefits are only present when Kefir Milk isn't heated in cooking, but when you do cook with it you still get the vitamins/mineral benefit.


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## ChristieAcres (Apr 11, 2009)

pattishadow- Thanks for that recommendation. That last HTer I sent the grains to told me mine were superior to the ones she had before and the flavor was better. I was told I had a very high quality strain from the lady who sent them to me originally. motdaugrnds has purchased the Kefir Grains, so her order will be shipped tomorrow. The cost was $10 including shipping. Now for that pic...how about a close up?









Do you see them smiling?


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## motdaugrnds (Jul 3, 2002)

ROFL would you believe I can smell them? yummmmm


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## ChristieAcres (Apr 11, 2009)

Your Milk Kefir Grains have been in whole cows milk. For the best initial flavor, I recommend starting with cows milk. Then, when you have some extra Kefir Milk (when the grains multiply, you can get two jars going...), switch one jar to goats milk and then cook with the end product (it won't be very tasty the 1st few times). After about the 3rd time, use the goats milk Kefir in a smoothie or use in one of the other ways (uncooked if possible).

My son, Rob, called tonight (he is 20), and I told him his box was on the way. He was THRILLED. In his box? Kefir Grains, 2 Purple Striped German Garlic Bulbs, Christie Comfrey Oil, and Christie Comfrey Coconut Lavender Salve. Rob couldn't take his Kefir Grains on the plane, so I have to send him new grains every time he moves. He calls them "Kefee's." My daughter, age 22, is also in to Kefir Milk (smoothies) and as soon as she gets her sublet, I will be mailing her more grains. Almost all my family members are making their own Kefir Milk, and my friends, too.


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## motdaugrnds (Jul 3, 2002)

Thank you. Will do!


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## Lizza (Nov 30, 2005)

crunchy_mama said:


> As to the lower carb diets you might want to check out the site:
> 
> www.marksdailyapple.com
> 
> ...


I wanted to second Mark's website and book.


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## motdaugrnds (Jul 3, 2002)

Thank you morningstar. My diet has mostly been vegies, fruits & nuts. We do use our own goat milk and raise our own "grass-fed" meat. I believe it has been what I drink that has caused me the most problems; but that is changing!


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## ChristieAcres (Apr 11, 2009)

morningstar & crunchy_mama right on! Eating naturally is better for you and there is too much hype about lowfat and nonfat diets, which aren't good for you. I spoke to a delighted daughter yesterday about her dietary changes (after visiting me for three weeks). She dropped the sugar, at more complex carbs, continued to eat fruit/veggies, no processed foods, and walk each day. Her reward? A 5# weight loss. That leaves only 15#s to go for her target weight, which has to do with her career. The target is a healthy one for her bone structure/size - for photographs & video. Since she will be based locally soon, I get to supply her with a lot of healthy organic fruit/veggies, Kefir Milk, and Herbal Infusions.

motdaugrnds- You are doing great! How often do you eat fish/chicken/other meats? Yesterday, we ate crab (last of our catch- crabbing season closed until Winter crabbing opens). Tonight, we ate fish (Len caught today). Tomorrow, it will be chicken. We have venison, beef, and chicken in the freezer. Sure wish we were raising our own beef, but maybe next year... I have been thinking...with our newest neighbors interested in getting cattle, we could partner a bit. Then, also they want a milk cow (we could buy our milk from them or a cow-share).


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## Lizza (Nov 30, 2005)

lorichristie said:


> morningstar & crunchy_mama right on! Eating naturally is better for you and there is too much hype about lowfat and nonfat diets, which aren't good for you. I spoke to a delighted daughter yesterday about her dietary changes (after visiting me for three weeks). She dropped the sugar, at more complex carbs, continued to eat fruit/veggies, no processed foods, and walk each day. Her reward? A 5# weight loss. That leaves only 15#s to go for her target weight, which has to do with her career. The target is a healthy one for her bone structure/size - for photographs & video. Since she will be based locally soon, I get to supply her with a lot of healthy organic fruit/veggies, Kefir Milk, and Herbal Infusions.


That's great about the more healthy eating for your daughter! When I was doing some research about how to lower my Mom's and Dad's cholesterol (Mom is a vegetarian, Dad is a vegan, most of their lives), something that kept popping up on searches was adding animal protein to the diet, I managed to get my mom to eat my home grown eggs but dad still believes the low fat hype and eggs cause high cholesterol. They both have high cholesterol and high blood pressure, even though they are fit/thin and almost zero processed food but they have a diet almost completely based on soy and grain.


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## ChristieAcres (Apr 11, 2009)

> morningstar- That's great about the more healthy eating for your daughter! When I was doing some research about how to lower my Mom's and Dad's cholesterol (Mom is a vegetarian, Dad is a vegan, most of their lives), something that kept popping up on searches was adding animal protein to the diet, I managed to get my mom to eat my home grown eggs but dad still believes the low fat hype and eggs cause high cholesterol. They both have high cholesterol and high blood pressure, even though they are fit/thin and almost zero processed food but they have a diet almost completely based on soy and grain.


Yes, I am very happy about it, too! I sure don't want to see her drop any weight on an unhealthy lowfat/nonfat diet. My recommendations include her getting to put a little WHOLE CREAM in her coffee! I took 20#s off, just going off sugar and following the diet recommendations I gave, in just one month, eating 5 times/day and NOT reducing my caloric intake. This was 2 years ago, after a sudden weight gain, and I have not gained it back.

The body manufactures Cholesterol, some have higher levels than others. It is a misnomer that dietary changes greatly reduce Cholesterol levels, can help, but we are being lied to. My FIL has high Cholesterol, in his late 70s, and his arteries are CLEAR. He and my MIL eat similar to the way I do, except they eat sugar (I still stay away from it). 

I don't debate on being a vegetarian or vegan. Due to my own research, I have found a lot of information on autopsies and comparisons and have drawn my own conclusions. I eat eggs every day, and have a fair amount of protein in my diet. The sources are more important to me, than the fact I am eating meat. I've read "Eating for your Blood Type," which is a good book, and also many others on diet/nutrition. Sure didn't make me an authority, but I have made what I consider informed decisions due to all my research over the years. There are those who will debate drinking herbal infusions. I could care less, but will continue to drink them as I know they are good for me, packed with vitamins/minerals. Kefir Milk? Another one some will debate, but it is 5 times better for you than yogurt, a great Probiotic! 

Oh, blood results? My last physical, I got a 99. That means I was in better shape than 98% of other women my age. This included my blood levels. Here I have FMS, CFS, and you'd never know it. 

Soy? I eat ZERO SOY, don't need the hormone. Men should NOT eat Soy (Estrogen...). Also, only fermented soy products are recommended in most sources today with what they have discovered about it. Anyone can do the research on this.


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## motdaugrnds (Jul 3, 2002)

Lori, I totally agree it is more sensible to eat meats that we know are grown well. My family grows our own meat (goat meat & chicken .. all pasture raised). What vegies we don't grow, we purchase as frozen (nothing processed). The only canned items we use is Pink Salmon simply because I cannot find any fresh or frozen around here for a reasonable price.

We eat all our different meats at least twice a week (includes home-made meat pies & stews) with pastas taking up the other meals. I love crab (especially the whole ones) because they are not only tasty but are fun to eat. (It is a scavenger as is lobster, which I also love; so we don't eat much of it at all.)

Goat milk is healthier than cow milk in that cow milk leaves an acidic ash; whereas, goat milk leaves an alkaline ash in ones system.

You stated you had venison in the freezer and that is similar to goat meat in health and nearly as tasty too (if it is killed while calm).

morningstar, I think you were right in introducing the idea of adding animal protein to your parents' diet. People get something in their head about what causes high blood pressure and high cholesterol and, sometimes, it is difficult to get them to understand that information might not be quite accurate. (I can reduce my high cholestral rather quickly by drinking a lot of "goat" milk and leaving off sugary drinks.) My high blood pressure completely went away just a few months after my precious mother died. (I had been caring for her 24/7 for nearly 18 yrs.) This lets me know diet, alone, is not always the answer we need for physical health.

I just yesterday received some Kefir-Grains and am looking forward to finding out what that does for my family.


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