# Anyone else use old military rifles for hunting?



## simi-steading

GC Pete got me to thinking.. I was gonna give you a rub about it too... when you mentioned a 7mm-08... I was gonna say the 7x57 is better because the guns that used them are cooler 

Then I got to thinking about how much I like shooting the old military guns.... 

My favorite rifle for deer is a 7mm mauser... Yeah, it's a little long, but it just feels right, and I can shoot bottle caps with open sights at 100 yards.. well... when I could still see 20 years ago... and didn't shake  .... I've also gotta sported Swed that's pretty sweet too.... and small... and light.. and dead eye accurate... 

I actually prefer using those over my Rem 700 and a Winchester model 88. ...guns built for sporting.. 

I do have a Mosin I never intended to own,.. .but I do.. so I was almost thinking of taking it out. It's not near as accurate as the mousers or any of my other rifles.... Still fun to shoot...


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## wiggles_n_flop

JC Higgins Mauser 98 in 30.06 is my hunting gun.... Though not itself a military gun its still a Mauser action and probably the most accurate gun I have if I could see that well


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## Guest

We have a 1966 AK and a 1940's Swiss thing with a bayonet that has been recalibrated to a more modern calibre.


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## GREENCOUNTYPETE

I don't hunt with old military primarily because most of my hunting is in a shotgun only town ship , I susppose if you consider that the military at some point used the same modle shotguns , then using a M37 , 870 or model 500 is sort of old military 

does the 870 police magnum I bought used from the police department with the factory original smooth bore improved cylinder slug barrel count , it rode around in a cruiser for about 25 years , I think it might have earned a pension.


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## hawgsquatch

I had a 7x57 Swedish Husqvarna Mauser that I loved to hunt with. I traded it off for something sexier when Roger Raglin was one of the first guys touting synthetic stocks and his "black magic" rifle. I wish I had it now.

What qualifies as military? I have an old model 8 Remington semi-auto in 35 Remington that has U.S.Federal Prisons Bureau stamped on it, and I have hunted with it, but have yet to kill anything.


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## vicker

My first deer rifle was a 1903 Springfield 30-06. I sure loved that gun. Alas, some person, who will remain un-named hocked it. Probably didn't get $20 for it.


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## littlejoe

Had a 6.5 swede and a 03/A3 that I hunted with as a kid. Never did shoot anything with either, though.

I'd like to find something I could swap you for on that 88 though!  What caliber do you have? THey rank close to Savage 99's for me


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## Guest

Oooh, Mauser is the Swiss thing... It shoots awesome!


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## simi-steading

I've been looking for a 1903 A1, Springfiled manufactured, for a few years now. Not found one that I could justify being worth the cost.. Either old and beat up, or nice and too much... Had a friend that had one that had been sportrized and I loved shooting that gun... 

My 88 is in 308... It has an old Leopold scope on it with a Pachmayr tip-off mount.. Great shooting gun, but I'll never part with it. It was a gift from a friend, as was the Swed I have. He was the one that had sporterized the Swed, and he did one heck of a job on it. However, he did it years ago when that was the thing to do. Now he wished he never had, I wish he wouldn't have either.


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## simi-steading

Oh, yep, I would consider police and prison guns to be in the same class.. It's something about the history of a gun that I really like.. 

I've got a couple old CZ handguns that were police gns, and I've also got a FEG that was a police issue... 

Something about if those guns could only tell a story.. .I only have a couple guns that weren't military or police issue.. 

I've got an old Potsdam muzzle loader that I wish could tell me the stories of where it's been and what it's seen... It was only one of two guns my grandfather owned that are left in the family.. I also own the second one.. a handgun..


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## littlejoe

simi-steading said:


> I've got an old Potsdam muzzle loader that I wish could tell me the stories of where it's been and what it's seen... It was only one of two guns my grandfather owned that are left in the family.. I also own the second one.. a handgun..


And may those two guns mean as much to your offspring as they do to you!

I've given two of my boys, guns in the last year. Under the guidance that it never be sold, but they pass it on to someone who holds the second amendment close and dear, and so on. Family or not.

Those two guns are both favorite rifles, I've got another reserved for the other son...and no less of a gun! Dang...now I need to replace them!


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## chester5731

I like the old M1 garland 30-06 for deer hunting. During regular deer season it is shotgun only. During the summer I get crop damage permits and am allowed to use the rifle.


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## Shrek

My father had a war surplus model 11 12 gauge riot gun with 20 inch barrel and a M1903 refit with a sportsman stock. He let me use both for deer hunting depending on season weapon restrictions for three years until they were stolen by a druggie busted for other break ins around where we lived as best the law could figure although the weapons were never recovered.


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## simi-steading

littlejoe said:


> And may those two guns mean as much to your offspring as they do to you!
> 
> I've given two of my boys, guns in the last year. Under the guidance that it never be sold, but they pass it on to someone who holds the second amendment close and dear, and so on. Family or not.
> 
> Those two guns are both favorite rifles, I've got another reserved for the other son...and no less of a gun! Dang...now I need to replace them!


I have no kid... by choice... I have already let my brother and his first son know that they will be going to my nephew... He's not into guns really, but he does understand the meaning of getting them.


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## simi-steading

Shrek said:


> My father had a war surplus model 11 12 gauge riot gun with 20 inch barrel and a M1903 refit with a sportsman stock. He let me use both for deer hunting depending on season weapon restrictions for three years until they were stolen by a druggie busted for other break ins around where we lived as best the law could figure although the weapons were never recovered.


I would have recovered them outta his butt as soon as he got outta jail..


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## michael ark

I also have a mosin nagant. I have the m44 or carbine great little gun it is a 1946 model.I was thinking about updating it like this.http://www.amazon.com/dp/B008AY8KAA/ref=wl_it_dp_o_pd_nS_ttl?_encoding=UTF8&colid=2SQ49JO1UZGNQ&coliid=IBF3C9VLAUAD0http://www.amazon.com/dp/B001HIT1UO...UTF8&colid=2SQ49JO1UZGNQ&coliid=IW5VBPEVFEDF2
http://www.amazon.com/dp/B008AY8KAA/ref=wl_it_dp_o_pd_nS_ttl?_encoding=UTF8&colid=2SQ49JO1UZGNQ&coliid=IBF3C9VLAUAD0
Has anyone taken a old bolt action and changed it to hunt with.


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## littlejoe

simi-steading said:


> I have no kid... by choice... I have already let my brother and his first son know that they will be going to my nephew... He's not into guns really, but he does understand the meaning of getting them.


He sounds like a young man who is primed and ready to be taught heritage and rights. One reason I didn't stipulate that they be handed down to offspring....I want them to realize what they represent and meant. Yes...better in the family, but no guarantees.


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## simi-steading

michael ark said:


> I also have a mosin nagant. I have the m44 or carbine great little gun it is a 1946 model.I was thinking about updating it like this.http://www.amazon.com/dp/B008AY8KAA/ref=wl_it_dp_o_pd_nS_ttl?_encoding=UTF8&colid=2SQ49JO1UZGNQ&coliid=IBF3C9VLAUAD0http://www.amazon.com/dp/B001HIT1UO...UTF8&colid=2SQ49JO1UZGNQ&coliid=IW5VBPEVFEDF2
> http://www.amazon.com/dp/B008AY8KAA/ref=wl_it_dp_o_pd_nS_ttl?_encoding=UTF8&colid=2SQ49JO1UZGNQ&coliid=IBF3C9VLAUAD0
> Has anyone taken a old bolt action and changed it to hunt with.



hhhmmm.. pistol grip on a rifle like that... I don't know... Guess I'm just too old school.. 

My Mosin I bought off a friend that was needing money to buy clothes for his kids before school started. He didn't want to sell it, but didn't have much other choice. I bought it in case he decides he wants to buy it back, instead of him taking it to the pawn shop, and getting less money... 

I doubt he'll be buying it back though.... Just a feeling... Anyway, it's a Hex receiver.. I believe it's a 1934? I can't remember, but it does have some cartouches on it that hint towards it being a more accurate gun that they issued to more skilled shooters or snipers.. I still need to do more research on it... It's not your every day Mosin though. Because of that, I'd never modify it... An every day Mosin I'd have no issues hacking it up.. .


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## Rollochrome

M1 Garand quite a bit.

Also used a CETME.

Both on pigs


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## simi-steading

I sat down two nights agot and got a new sling on my Brazilian Mauser... Pulled out a few rounds, and I'm ready to head out tomorrow morning with it to go get me some meat :thumb:

That's for my first deer this year. My next one i'll probably take my Winchester 88...


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## Vahomesteaders

Hunted with British 303, 7.62x54, and ask to this day hunt with a Mauser chambered in 35 Remington. Lots of fun using them old guns. But the 50 bmg is my favorite military rifle to take. Just cost to much to shoot regularly. Lol


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## simi-steading

LOL.. 50 BMG.. here in WV you'd split a deer in half with one of those since they are so small.. My 7mm is a little on the big side for WV deer. Most people in these parts hunt wit a .243


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## deaconjim

I have used a Mosin Nagant, but my favorite is a sporterized Argentine Mauser re-chambered to .308


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## simi-steading

I may end up having to pull out the Mosin if I go for a third deer this year... Just because so many here say they use one..


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## Vahomesteaders

simi-steading said:


> LOL.. 50 BMG.. here in WV you'd split a deer in half with one of those since they are so small.. My 7mm is a little on the big side for WV deer. Most people in these parts hunt wit a .243


You would actually be surprised. It really doesn't do as much damage as you would think. Even the softest lead I can find just punches a whole not much bigger than a muzzleloader. But the energy from it will flip them sometimes. Lol now if you hit solid bone it leaves a big mark. Lol


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## Wylie Kyote

Once had a British, Lee-Enfield .303, full wood model. Not very accurate at long distances. Traded it for a Czechoslovakian Brno, .308Win with a 3 X 9 variable Leopold scope. What a great rifle. Used to use a .220 Swift for middle distance kangaroo shooting.

Wylie


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## FireMaker

Does my 1740 flint fusil count? Used by French Military, .62 smoothbore.


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## simi-steading

Of course it counts... I've got a M1809 Prussian Postsdam... 72cal smooth bore... Military gun for sure, and was brought into the US early in the Civil War.. but I really don't think I'm gonna take it out deer hunting this year... Something tell sme you don't usually use yours for hunting?


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## biggkidd

My go to hunting rifle is a SKS that I have worked over. It's great for our VA deer. From shooting one other SKS and talking to many folks mine is far more accurate than most. It has about the same ballistics as a 30-30. Using hand loads and bench rest I'm getting 1.25 - 1.5 groups of 5 at 100 yards. It is heavy though, the Choate (sp) stock added about a pound plus the scope and mount added more. So it's not one I want to carry around for long distances.


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## hardrock

I use a 6.5x55 Swedish officers rifle (custom) and sometimes I use my Underwood M1 carbine that's ok for the close shots we get around here.

In my state it's legal to use an M4 or 5.56.


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## JackAubrey

.303 British No1Mk3 & .303 British No.4 Mk1*. I haven't hunted with them in years though, they are put up for posterity. Now when I hunt, I still use military weapons , but my interest has moved BACK into history. Nowadays I will use either my 1762 Brown Bess(.75), my 1853 Enfield( Confederate .577) or my M1861 Springfield(Federal .58.) I don't have to track very far with these, getting too old for that!I've not taken any pictures of my guns. I guess I could, but I don't feel like getting up, getting them out of the safe, and fooling with this new fangled camera phone. So here is a few pics I pulled off the internet to give y'all an idea of what they look like! They certainly put the hunt back in hunting! JA


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## simi-steading

I do actually have a picture of my Potsdam... sort of.. My grandmother wanted a picture of me with it a few years back.. I was about a year before she died, so I sent her this picture in a frame.. 

Anyway.. I'm telling ya.. it's a heck of a lotta gun to be toting around the woods..


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## simi-steading

Oh.. and I broke my rule that my first deer here in WV was gonna be with my Mauser.... I left it home, went and sat out in the field with my Win. 88 and got the first one... Oh well... Kinda glad though... I do't think I would have gotten it since it had open sights, and my 88 has a scope... It was one of those take it now and fast shots, or your not gonna get it... I wouldn't have been as close as I was with the scope, and it was still one of those not the greatest of shots..


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## kycrawler

I have killed quite a few with a 24/47 Yugo Mauser good shooting rifle that looks like it was never issued I shoot a 213 gr cast lead bullet out of it


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## diamondtim

simi-steading said:


> I've been looking for a 1903 A1, Springfiled manufactured, for a few years now. Not found one that I could justify being worth the cost.. Either old and beat up, or nice and too much... Had a friend that had one that had been sportrized and I loved shooting that gun...
> 
> My 88 is in 308... It has an old Leopold scope on it with a Pachmayr tip-off mount.. Great shooting gun, but I'll never part with it. It was a gift from a friend, as was the Swed I have. He was the one that had sporterized the Swed, and he did one heck of a job on it. However, he did it years ago when that was the thing to do. Now he wished he never had, I wish he wouldn't have either.


You guys are such a bad influence!:thumb:

Yesterday, I went to an invitation only estate sale of a gun guy. There were 100+ long guns (mostly sporterized military) and more than a dozen pistols. I bought three.

Gun 1 is an 03A3 that was cut down and the upper hand guard was removed, Still has the peep sight.

Gun 2 is a 1918 Carl Gustave Swedish Mauser in 6.5x55. Cut down and has a Williams peep sight.

Gun 3 is a K98 Mauser that was rebarrelled and chambered in .270 with a Williams rear peep sight.

Then there were the reloading dies for the new calibers and ammo.

If I had more money available....

30-40 Krags, a P-14, and even more Springfields, Mausers, dies, powder, primers, bullets, molds, scopes, barrels, ammo, etc.:facepalm:


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## vicker

Talk about bad influences...


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## diamondtim

vicker said:


> Talk about bad influences...


Mea Culpa! Mea Culpa!


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## vicker

Would you tell us what you paid for guns 1 and 2? Just curious, as they are about tops on my want list.


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## diamondtim

vicker said:


> Would you tell us what you paid for guns 1 and 2? Just curious, as they are about tops on my want list.


Gun 1 was $100
Gun 2 was $75
Gun 3 was $75

The Pattern 14 (a M1917 Enfield in .303 British) where only the stock was sporterized was going for $50.:facepalm:

That is why I couldn't pass the opportunity by.


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## simi-steading

NICE... you did good... Shame they were all sporterized though... Worth a whole lot more whole..

I've been on the lookout for a really nice K98 with original cartouches..


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## diamondtim

simi-steading said:


> NICE... you did good... Shame they were all sporterized though... Worth a whole lot more whole..
> 
> I've been on the lookout for a really nice K98 with original cartouches..


Thanks.

Of course, I would have preferred a "whole gun", but for a deer gun or play at the range gun, they'll do.

The lesson to be learned, like today's Mosin-Nagant, the 03A3 of 40 years ago was cheap and never was going to be worth much.


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## simi-steading

A nice condition 03A3 today sells for a lot of money... Lots of different things influence the prices of them.. Maker, originality, lots depends on the re-armoring.. I was looking at one the guy wanted $1500... I say it was a $1000 gun going by the things I saw and knew...


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## diamondtim

I totally agree about condition, mfg, etc., but the more common ones are running north of $800 the last time I saw one.

The last Swed I saw was in the $450 range.


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## simi-steading

I'm still looking for that great condition 1903 A1, manufactured by Springfield.. but I know once I find it, I'm going to have one heck of a time convincing my wife why I need to buy a gun that expensive..


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## GREENCOUNTYPETE

I about kick myself every time I got to this one gun shop , he always seems to have something worth having and at a great price and I am short the cash to make it mine 


last time it was a sporterized 1917 enfield 30-06 for 350

time before that a Marlin not a remlin , 1894 44mag in very nice shape for 425

before that a sporterized P14 Enfield in 30-06 for 350
I think it was on that trip he told me It was a shame I wasn't in the week before , he had a sweede 

another shop had a sporterized 1903A3 for 350

my wife asked me what I wanted for Christmas , I told her cash so I can stop setting these great deals down never to see them again


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## Silvercreek Farmer

Haven't shot enough deer yet to be ready to make it any harder. Got a Mosin, but would love a 03-A3 to peep at a deer with!


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## diamondtim

UPDATE.

I was cleaning up the Swede tonight and noticed a SA inside a rectangle on the side of the receiver. This means the rifle was in the employ of the Finns during WWII. Too bad the prior owner decided to "improve" it and ruined its historic value.:facepalm:


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## simi-steading

diamondtim said:


> UPDATE.
> 
> I was cleaning up the Swede tonight and noticed a SA inside a rectangle on the side of the receiver. This means the rifle was in the employ of the Finns during WWII. Too bad the prior owner decided to "improve" it and ruined its historic value.:facepalm:


I'll one up you. Actually I'll up you big time, because there's something that's strange with mine... Mine is a first year 1898 production...There is no import mark on it, and it has the OG. inspector mark.. Olof was an inspector from 1898 until 1902... according to the serial, it's one of the first 300 built.. All numbers are matching.. All of this makes it a pretty expensive gun, at least, if it wouldn't have been sported... 

But here's where it gets strange.. The serial number on all parts is 3 digits, under 300 and matching BUT, on the receiver, that number is prefixed with a 4... That's an issue, because according to records, under 4000 guns were made the first year.. 

It ALMOST makes me think they had a 1898 receiver left over, and at the beginning of the 1899 production run, they started out with a 4... 

Although, I have found another Mauser that is in the 4000 serial range, and it is stamped 1900.... 

This gun seems to be a very strange bird.. because of the way the serial is, the fact it's dated a first year production on the top of the receiver, and because there is no import marking...


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## simi-steading

OK.. I'm going to back up here on what I THOUGHT I had.. 

I got real curious now as to what I really have... I THOUGHT I had a M96, but turns out I appear to have a M94... The serial numbers fit now, in the 4000 range... There still don't appear to have been a lot of 94's made in 98... I found record of one gun built in 1898 that is 20 digits away from mine, and it's a M94/14...


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## diamondtim

Historic hand-wringing aside.:grumble:

I bought this gun as a shooter, a range toy, deer gun, yada yada. The Williams gun sight on it and walnut Monte Carlo stock (needs refinishing) makes it a very good deal for $75. So I'm very happy with it.


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## simi-steading

Mine was a gift from the guy that sported it years and years ago... I'll never part with it... FANTASTIC shooter... Only deal is, it shoots WAY high.. so I was asking him about it a month or so ago, and he said try it between 3 and 400 yards.. bet it shoots right on.. 

I can only dream of finding a shot that far around here.. think I'll adjust it more realistically...


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## diamondtim

simi-steading said:


> Mine was a gift from the guy that sported it years and years ago... I'll never part with it... FANTASTIC shooter... Only deal is, it shoots WAY high.. so I was asking him about it a month or so ago, and he said try it between 3 and 400 yards.. bet it shoots right on..
> 
> I can only dream of finding a shot that far around here.. think I'll adjust it more realistically...


Try what your friend suggests. The reason is because a rifle shoots its projectile in a ballastic arc, and the bullet passes through the same point twice in that arc. I have heard this same suggestion for taming a high shooting Mosin.


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## simi-steading

Yes, I know it passes through the same spot twice on the arc, but for hunting out here, 150 yards is going to be about the furthest shot I'd ever be able to find, and I don't plan to take it anywhere else to hunt..


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## GREENCOUNTYPETE

most battle rifles sights were set to shoot on at 300 yards or 300 meters and will hit 6-7 or so inches high at 100 yards 

I have some theories on this , first men are taller than wide the opposite of most game and you only have to hit them so 7 high 7 low are still hits if your aiming at the center of a man collar to belt buckle on an average man is about 14-16 inches I think they figured the less math and range estimation a user would do the better also 6 oclock hold , not somthing most hunters are used to but if you take a 8-10 inch bulls eye at 100 yards and use a 6oclock hold so you can actually see what your shooting at and not cover half of it with the sights on some of these old guns and hit nearly the center of the bull

you want to raise your front sight to lower the point of impact


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## GREENCOUNTYPETE

Oh while I haven't hunted with it or even shot it yet I will be , I picked up a 1903a3 sporter last night


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## diamondtim

GREENCOUNTYPETE said:


> Oh while I haven't hunted with it or even shot it yet I will be , I picked up a 1903a3 sporter last night


I guess, I am a bad influence.:yuck:


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## GREENCOUNTYPETE

diamondtim said:


> I guess, I am a bad influence.:yuck:


maybe but I have wanted one for a while , had seen a few come and go , told the wife when she couldn't figure out what to get me for Christmas I told her cash so I don't have to set down the next really nice rifle I find 

well not 2 days later I found one in a local shop asked them to hold it for me till the next day and went back for it when I had a bit more time and such.

2 groove Remington 1903A3 mid July of 1943

the barrel hadn't looked great definitly dirty when I looked it over at the shop but I couldn't see any pitting or anything so I went for it , a good cleaning and it is smooth and looks very good ,incredible considering it 71 years old and possibly seen service some one took care of it.


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## diamondtim

Congrats on your new toy, Pete!:thumb:


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## big rockpile

I always liked 303 British.

big rockpile


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## farmerDale

Well how the heck did I miss this thread???!!! I don't come to the home defense forum much, because as a Canadian it is frustrating. We basically have no legal home defense with firearms, and we are supposed to have guns locked away from the ammo which is also supposed to be locked.

In case you ask, my official answer is of course mine are locked!

That aside, a friend of my dad's moved away, and he wanted to leave me a .303 British in a no.5 jungle carbine. Thankfully my dad accepted the offer. The friend also had a 264 winny magnum, which I wish was also left behind... But I digress. And dream. I take the "jungle" with me for deer if I am going to have a limited shooting distance, IE. a stand in the woods, etc..due to the open sights.

After my dad had died, I took the butt plate off just to clean it well. There was a little compartment in the stock, and when I popped it off, there was a paper in there. My heart skipped a beat. I was excited what it may be!!! But alas it was just a paper with a typed set of numbers on it. I am not sure if it saw service, as mine was made in 1945, so if so it would have been limited service, at least in WWII,

Cool topic...


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## diamondtim

big rockpile said:


> I always liked 303 British.
> 
> big rockpile


I've heard that is a sweet caliber.


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## diamondtim

farmerDale said:


> Well how the heck did I miss this thread???!!! I don't come to the home defense forum much, because as a Canadian it is frustrating. We basically have no legal home defense with firearms, and we are supposed to have guns locked away from the ammo which is also supposed to be locked.
> 
> In case you ask, my official answer is of course mine are locked!
> 
> That aside, a friend of my dad's moved away, and he wanted to leave me a .303 British in a no.5 jungle carbine. Thankfully my dad accepted the offer. The friend also had a 264 winny magnum, which I wish was also left behind... But I digress. And dream. I take the "jungle" with me for deer if I am going to have a limited shooting distance, IE. a stand in the woods, etc..due to the open sights.
> 
> After my dad had died, I took the butt plate off just to clean it well. There was a little compartment in the stock, and when I popped it off, there was a paper in there. My heart skipped a beat. I was excited what it may be!!! But alas it was just a paper with a typed set of numbers on it. I am not sure if it saw service, as mine was made in 1945, so if so it would have been limited service, at least in WWII,
> 
> Cool topic...


I remember when you could buy those for under $130. Then there were the Indian SMLE's in .308 for under $100.:facepalm:


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## GREENCOUNTYPETE

I hear guys talk about how in the 50s and early 60s they could walk into Kmart and they had a barrel of Enfield 303s you would look them over and go pay at the register 15 dollars


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## diamondtim

GREENCOUNTYPETE said:


> I hear guys talk about how in the 50s and early 60s they could walk into Kmart and they had a barrel of Enfield 303s you would look them over and go pay at the register 15 dollars


They said the same about 1903 Springfields and German Mausers. That is why so many were cut down for hunting rifles or used as a base for custom rifles.


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## JohnnyRebel

I always hunt with a Marlin Model 336 .30-.30, my other option if I don't feel like a lever action is my M44 Mosin-Nagant....accurate and smooth and LOUD AS HELL

:cowboy:


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## diamondtim

JohnnyRebel said:


> I always hunt with a Marlin Model 336 .30-.30, my other option if I don't feel like a lever action is my M44 Mosin-Nagant....accurate and smooth and LOUD AS HELL
> 
> :cowboy:


I love the Mosin M44, especially the huge flame ball when you use Russian surplus ammo.:clap:


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## simi-steading

Guess I need to take my Mosin out and shoot it... Decide if I like it or not.. I only fired two shots from it.. 

Only reason I own it was because a friend needed money, and it's a hex receiver.. If it wouldn't have been a hex he would have been going to the pawn shop..


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## GREENCOUNTYPETE

you got me wondering why 8mm mauser ever got more popular than 7mm the 7mm Mauser is balistically superior to 8mm mauser , really what where they thinking 

just comparing the 145gr 7x57 to the 170gr 8x57 the 8mm is not looking good , about the only thing the 8x57 seems to do is make you think a spitzer bullet in a 30-30 is a better idea


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## simi-steading

hhhhmm.. I never though the 8mm was more popular... I've not often heard of or seen the 8mm, (actually a 7.9mm) but I have seen the 7mm a fair amount.. 

Wasn't it mostly only the Germans that used the 8? I know a lot of countries used the 7mm..


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## GREENCOUNTYPETE

I guess I am thinking of the K98 in 8mm , but why why did they go 8mm seems ballistically and strategically a bad idea , they should have gone 6.5 x57 use less lead more effectively

this falls into the same 9mm carbine vs 223 you get more ammo and more potent ammo for less weight , they were strapped for all resources ammo included why use it wastefully


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## simi-steading

I have no clue why they would have... Seems if ya got a good thing, why not stick to it?


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## GREENCOUNTYPETE

after a little reading it seems that the germans adopted and stuck with the 7.92x57 also known as 8x57 or 8mm mauser and some part of the development was taken from the french research and the french adopting a 8mm lebel and many of the other countries around them adopting the french 8mm lebel in a way the 7.92x57 is 8mm lebel rimless improved 

oddly enough Paul Mauser developed the 7x57 at nearly the same time , and it would almost apear that since he had a 7x57 and the germans wanted an 8 because the french had an 8 he necked up his cartridge and let them have an 8 

just imagine if politics didn't play into the cartridge adoption what we might have 

the Spanish adopted the 7x57 and the mexicans and chileans and argentines and several others , the Portugal and Brazil went 7.65x53

it was during the Spanish American war the US first realized the range of the 7x57 against the 30-40 krag and likewise not long after the 30-06 with greater range yet was adopted the US was set on 30cal as many times as 7mm or 277 was attempted it was shot down 

did you know that Garand originally built the M1 as a 270 tapered cartridge the gun would have held 10 but when he was told it would have to be 30-06 as that was the US cartridge it only held 8

the English name for 7x57 is 275 rigby taking its measurement from the land diameter


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## GREENCOUNTYPETE

one other note the current SAMMI spec for 8x57 is 35,000ps the original german spec was 56,000psi it would have been a very different cartridge when not held to 30-30 pressures but balistically not what 7x57 with a spitzer would have been either but since the 8x57 started as a 225gr round nose , the 8mm Lebel started as a 232gr flat nose round really not to far off 32 Winchester special and they were likely taken at it's effectiveness 
a 32cal flat nose at 2000fps certainly is effective on game inside 150 yards


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## michael ark

I have been looking at a hex for $130 at the pawn shop i like.I have a 50 year old m44 that shoots like a dream as long as the bayonet is out otherwise the point of aim changes.


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## Zimobog

I had 3 Mosins- a pre-war, one made during the war, and a polish carbine. I traded the one with Soviet markings for two hogs recently. There isn't a cheaper shooter in my safe and all three would ring the gong at 300 meters.


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## diamondtim

GREENCOUNTYPETE said:


> you got me wondering why 8mm mauser ever got more popular than 7mm the 7mm Mauser is balistically superior to 8mm mauser , really what where they thinking
> 
> just comparing the 145gr 7x57 to the 170gr 8x57 the 8mm is not looking good , about the only thing the 8x57 seems to do is make you think a spitzer bullet in a 30-30 is a better idea


Bigger hole and greater terminal energy?


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## GREENCOUNTYPETE

diamondtim said:


> Bigger hole and greater terminal energy?


bigger hole I suppose but 
see you might think that 8x57 would give greater terminal energy because of the greater weight but , at least at today's SAMMI spec pressures the 7x57 with a 145gr bullet starts with 2278fpe and he 8x57 starts at 2102fpe

at 300 yards the 7x57 is 1236fpe and 8x57 is 671fpe

in direct comparison on the winchester ammunition site http://www.winchester.com/Products/rifle-ammunition/Performance/Super-X-rifle/Pages/default.aspx

if you load to book max and use heavy for caliber high balistic coeficient bullets like the 8mm hornady 180gr with a bc of .460 and the 7mm 154gr bullet with a .525 bc the 8mm wins under 400 yards then the 7mm starts making gains in BC savings and gives 250 yards more effective range while super sonic


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## diamondtim

GREENCOUNTYPETE said:


> bigger hole I suppose but
> see you might think that 8x57 would give greater terminal energy because of the greater weight but , at least at today's SAMMI spec pressures the 7x57 with a 145gr bullet starts with 2278fpe and he 8x57 starts at 2102fpe
> 
> at 300 yards the 7x57 is 1236fpe and 8x57 is 671fpe
> 
> in direct comparison on the winchester ammunition site http://www.winchester.com/Products/rifle-ammunition/Performance/Super-X-rifle/Pages/default.aspx
> 
> if you load to book max and use heavy for caliber high balistic coeficient bullets like the 8mm hornady 180gr with a bc of .460 and the 7mm 154gr bullet with a .525 bc the 8mm wins under 400 yards then the 7mm starts making gains in BC savings and gives 250 yards more effective range while super sonic


Not arguing with you, Pete, but you need to look at military loadings for each cartridge instead of the civilian ones. If I recall correctly, Turkish military 8mm was pretty hot (2900 fps).


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## GREENCOUNTYPETE

I am not arguing either at military loading it would make it a different cartridge but what I think they didn't know that we know know is about high BC bullets and the long range energy savings 

Turkish 1940s loadings do put 8mm at 2976 average velocity http://www.turkmauser.com/ammo/mhbTurk.aspx

but appear to do it with a 155gr bullet fat light bullets have low BC
so even with the added velocity an expected .290 BC would still hold it's supersonic range to 800 yards 

given a little hotter military loading of 7x57 one could expect 2850fps putting it supersonic to 1200 yards and precisly why we found ourselves out ranged by the 7x57 Mexican Mauser in the Spanish American war against out 30-40 krags


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