# Copper pipe...type L or M??



## Nick53 (Mar 6, 2003)

Hey all, I'm planning on building a 14 x 24 house from plans at countryplans.com. I'm looking at doing this with a time frame of about 5 years or so. With building material prices so low, I've started to buy things that I can use in building the house when the price is right. Menards has copper pipe on sale for $4.99 1/2" type M and $6.99 type L. That price is for 10ft lengths. Seems like a good price. Naturally, being frugal I'd like to got with the type M, but if type L will be a longer lasting product I'd go with that. What's all your opinions? My understanding of local code is that for anything not underground type M is allowed. 

Nick


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## clovis (May 13, 2002)

Nick,

I went through the same exact debate myself. Go with the cheaper stuff and save some money, or go with the good stuff?

What solved this issue for me was that I bought L, and ran it. I really liked it, but still wasn't convinced that it was worth the money.

I did score a few sticks of the thinner M at an auction for $1. The plumber friend I have helped me run a new line, and we used, by accident, the thin M.

There is a definate difference in strength and rigidity with the L over the M. It really is quite a difference, IMO.

For the $2 per stick difference, it would be a no-brainer for me, and I am a very frugal person!!!!!!!

I think the difference between the 2 types was about $6 per stick when I bought my supplies.

If something happened, and I had to replace the same pipe, I would still go with the thicker L. I have even had some thoughts of ripping out the M that we installed, and replace it with L. Probably never will do that, but I have thought about it.

Over the entire cost of your house, I would say the $2 per 10 foot is well worth the added cost, but you will probably never wear out either of them. Once I finish a run, I don't ever want to jack with it again, so I think the value is well placed. 

BTW, how much are we talking in difference for the whole house? $30???? 

Just my 2 cents.

Clove


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## Sawmill Jim (Dec 5, 2008)

Here we use a lot of cpvc pipe our well water eats copper up like making a sieve.If your water isn't hard on copper i wouldn't think you would live long enough to know the difference


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## Ross (May 9, 2002)

M is fine for residential use, L is used a lot for heating or commercial use. I find L is a little harder to solder, but yeah it's great stuff. If you're reaming the ends before assembly you cut down on turbulence which extends the life of the pipe..... its only a concern if you're using a circ pump (say on the hot water to keep HW right at the tap) Kind of a small house for that!!


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## agmantoo (May 23, 2003)

I would use neither the L or the M. IMO, M is junk. The chance of getting a pin hole with the thin wall M is great, especially with the product being sourced out of Asia. My choice would be CPVC for a new home. For replumbing an existing home or for a place that the plumbing may freeze then Pex would be the product of choice.


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## Ross (May 9, 2002)

Certainly if cost is an issue you should look at PEX. Cheaper, faster to install and better. It's what I used for my boiler distribution system, and all plumbing additions here.


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## pred (Aug 10, 2008)

M is for heating applications and L if for domestic uses.
I have been installing boilers and piping systems, And M is thinner,,, Less oxygen in a sealed heating system,,, L is for Domestic water.
Peter


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## sammyd (Mar 11, 2007)

Nothing more fun than soldering a bunch of copper.
The thicker stuff is nice in areas that have water issues. I've seen copper pipe as thin as tinfoil after a few years in certain locations.
I would look at pex myself. Or maybe PVC of some sort.


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## Nick53 (Mar 6, 2003)

Thanks for the replies guys. I'll go with type L if I decide to go with copper. I've thought about going with pex, but my concern is with leaching of chemicals into my potable water. I know this stuff has been used in europe for a while, but plastic + water makes me a bit nervous. Maybe i'm just being a bit too cautious. I'll have to research it a bit more, and look in that direction if the installation of it is that much quicker and easier.

Thanks again,
Nick


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## dirty (Oct 14, 2005)

i had always used the "L" in my past plumbing projects.

last year i started using PEX. i love it.


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## clovis (May 13, 2002)

Nick,

I am going to be the odd man out with this opinion.

I am still not sold 100% on PEX. Yes, without a doubt, it has its advantages. To me, the biggest advantage of PEX is that it is freeze-thaw stable. There are applications for PEX that I don't think can be beat.

I too still have my questions about its long term safety with drinking. I want to see more time tested, real life study. There will be plenty of it, because it seems like everyone I know swears by it and uses it on every occasion possible.

Maybe I am uneducated, ignorant and a skeptic.

The more I learn about the world, the more I learn how little I know. 

Clove


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## Ross (May 9, 2002)

I was thinking my underground pipe from the well is PVC, and by replacing my indoor stuff with xpvc I was cutting down on the metals leaching into my water. Could be better could be worse, I don't know truthfully.


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## agmantoo (May 23, 2003)

Nick53
An aside question. You stated that one of the dimensions of the new house would be 14 feet. Have you calculated the difference on going to 16 for that dimension? I am of the opinion that you could gain a lot of space cheaply and have no more labor of any consequence. Most building materials are dimensioned for multiples and dividables of 2' and 4' such as plywood at 4 x 8 and sheetrock of 4 x 16 and the best of the wood in the stores start in the long lengths and it takes larger trees to yield them.


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## Beeman (Dec 29, 2002)

In worrying about the plastic what will feed the system? Most wells and municipal systems use plastic of some sort before it gets to the house.


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## wendle (Feb 22, 2006)

clovis said:


> Nick,
> 
> I am going to be the odd man out with this opinion.
> 
> ...


I worry about that stuff too. Try googling pvc and cancer. 

http://www.besafenet.com/pvc/about.htm
I've used pex in my closed loop system, but not in the plumbing used for bathing, drinking, etc. 

After working on some old plumbing in my house with a lot of that thin copper pipe, I would much prefer the heavier stuff. The thin stuff bends and distorts easier making it harder to get a good seal on any repaired or changed pipes. Might as well do it good the first time.


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## OkieDavid (Jan 15, 2007)

Concerns about chemicals in PVC/PEK and yet no concerns about lead/tin based solder or increased copper entering your system? Don't get me wrong- I'm NOT an puritanical environmentalist, in fact I spray pesticides without a mask, have been known to indulge in the flavor of a fine cigar and drink straight from the hose (and creek on occasion) but am I the only one that sees a trace of irony? IMHO- choose your poison......


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## Rocky Fields (Jan 24, 2007)

Hey.

If everybody is so concerned with toxicity, why not use iron pipe? It's harder to work with, but iron is a necessity in your diet...

RF


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## cfabe (Feb 27, 2005)

If I were building, Id go with CVPC for a small project or PEX for a large house. Copper is just too expensive for water pipe any more, even with the prices having come down quite a bit recently.


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## garymunson (Apr 20, 2009)

Nick,

I suspect that even given your 5 year timeframe, the current conditions make building a home way less cost effective than purchasing an existing one. We built our retirement dream home about 2 1/2 years ago but if we were to do it today...we wouldn't. Especially for someone handy like all of us, 'fixer-uppers' are so cost efficient as the banks have them in droves and are just begging people like us to take them off their hands. The houses are EVERYWHERE, all sizes and styles. I'm sure you'd be able to find something that would suit your tastes and give you much more for your money than you could possibly do from scratch. This is an extrodinary time for those willing to provide a little elbow grease to restore a 'challenged' home. I've gotten into arguments with people who insist that 'you don't get what you really want' but now that we're in our new home we can think of things we'd do differently now. You don't really know until you've lived in a house...we're happy with what we have but have come to realize that no house is ever 'perfect'...it always needs tweaking as your tastes, needs, and circumstances change over time. Have fun, good luck...BTW, my preference is CPVC...here in central Fl, copper (and the solder) gets eaten up by minerals in the water. Had several friends go through the nightmare of under-slab water leaks....ouch!


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