# How grey would you get?



## hoggie (Feb 11, 2007)

Ha - some bright spark said to take a couple of days off - so I did and now my mind is whizzing nineteen to the dozen - and I wonder why I get tired !!!

But - a hypothetical question. Let's say for argument's sake, that the area you live in has moved into hands that are ideologically "different" from your own. I'm going to put a match under this and let's say it is somethign extreme like totalitarian rule, or extreme muslim rule.

How far down the "going grey" route would you be prepared to go in order to survive? For example - if it was muslim rule, would you go through the pretense of not educating your daughters? Would you take your faith into hiding and worship in secret? At what point in the take-over would you turn grey? How would you go about teaching your children about your ideology, and how to stave off the possibility of your children doing, as they did in Germany, turning on their parents?

General discussion here - just my mind occupying itself  Any thoughts?

hoggie


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## farmerDale (Jan 8, 2011)

I've read, but now I have to do some serious thinking. I didn't plan on thinking that hard today. Now you've ruined my Sunday. All during church I shall be thinking about this one. lol


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## JIL (Aug 25, 2007)

it is something to think about and plan for.


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## puddlejumper007 (Jan 12, 2008)

gees guess i would not have to plan, i would probably go down fighting


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## hoggie (Feb 11, 2007)

farmerDale said:


> I've read, but now I have to do some serious thinking. I didn't plan on thinking that hard today. Now you've ruined my Sunday. All during church I shall be thinking about this one. lol


 - sorry


JIL - it is something I have pondered before, and never really come up with a definitive answer

hoggie


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## bee (May 12, 2002)

I already intend to be "gray" for zombies..which is to say I intend to look as hungry as they actually are by losing weight and aquiring a dirty "pinched" look. Dosn't pay to look "prosperous" when everyone traveling thru your area is starving....

Now as for the OP...depends entirely on how serious the need. The more serious the need the more likely I will go down fighting. A plain simple military take over that seeks to maintain the status quo except that taxes go to them, then I can bend. If things get to forced religous conversions and culling of the population, then I am dead already and will go down fighting. Op said "grey" and that is what it is likely to be..not black or white but personal gray. Everybody will have a break point, and a reason for that point like children or elderlies in the family. JMO that it is easier to say "go down fighting" if you don't have a spouse or children..OR easier to go down fighting if your loved ones are being targeted. Grey, just grey.

Welcome "back" Hoggie!


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## chickenslayer (Apr 20, 2010)

Death before dishonor


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## Trisha in WA (Sep 28, 2005)

I moved out of a town that was more than half of a different "religion" (read cult) because I couldn't make myself have that much gray. I would leave the area or as someone else said "go down fighting". When it is a matter of my faith, I will not budge.


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## jlrbhjmnc (May 2, 2010)

We know what Margaret Clitherow did. During the time when being Catholic in England brought the death penalty, this housewife practiced her faith, protected priests and was murdered while pregnant because she refused to expose her husband, children and friends to prosecution. A link to her story:

http://www.tanbooks.com/doct/margaret_martyr.htm


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## ovsfarm (Jan 14, 2003)

In a way I feel rather grey even now. 

Because we do not agree religiously, philosophically, physically, fiscally, academically, or logistically with what the public school system in our area is doing, we homeschool. But we still work to blend in and to have our daughter blend in. We do 4H activities (I am actually a 4H club leader), we did Girl Scouts for a while, we occasionally sign up for music or art lessons in the community. We don't want to stand out like sore thumbs.

Because of numerous concerns regarding the availability and quality of food, water, utilities, etc., we prep. And we do so fairly circumspectly. Not many people know what we have, how much of it we have, or where it is all stored. So I comiserate with friends about not knowing what I am going to make for dinner that night - although in my case, I have only to go to the pantry for all the ingredients I need for whatever I finally choose.

In some of the homeschool circles I frequent, violence is profoundly abhored and everyone (else) agrees that we must sit back and allow the PTB to take care of us and shield us from any unpleasantness. Although I often chime in with a call to practicality and the need to be able to take action while waiting for the authorities to arrive, I do not regale those ladies with a list of the weapons we have, copies of my daughter's prize winning shot pattern on the target, or chat about the great fun we are having in martial arts class. They are so horrified at the very idea of anyone standing up to a bully that I know they would not be able to accept anyone who would not only do it themselves but is training their child to do so also.

So while I move through society looking like a very crunchy, tree-hugging, sweet-natured, middle-aged mom of a pre-teen, I think that many of my acquantances would be pretty shocked if they were to be introduced to the "real me".

Regarding where I would draw the line, I think it would depend on the price I would have to pay to draw it and what the risks of discovery were at that level. Religion, safety of my family, and many of our basic freedoms would be non-negotiable. If I couldn't have a high degree of autonomy in those things, I would relocate to a place where I could and fight for freedom from the outside instead of sacrificing myself and my family ineffectively from within. 

My husband and I often talk about the frog in the boiling water analogy. (The frog will immediately jump out of boiling water if plopped directly in it, but will stay in until he is cooked if the temperature is slowly increased from comfortable to a boil - he doesn't recognize the danger until it is too late for him to respond) I ponder whether we are all frogs in a pot on a high simmer. My fear is that I will wake some day to discover that the rolling boil is on and I have missed my chance to get to safety.


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## Ernie (Jul 22, 2007)

Your situation isn't really all that hypothetical, hoggie.

Every day I wake up in a nation where the government has turned against me and only a few scattered holdouts share my ideology and religious beliefs.

How gray am I now?


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## Blu3duk (Jun 2, 2002)

Ernie said:


> Your situation isn't really all that hypothetical, hoggie.
> 
> Every day I wake up in a nation where the government has turned against me and only a few scattered holdouts share my ideology and religious beliefs.
> 
> How gray am I now?


As of yet we are still able to communicate and not have to worry about what we say or practice in private of our domiciles, but as those "executive orders" holding the "color of law" become more and more repressive more of us will not only go gray [or grey] but will totally go dark and no one will hear from us any longer, not out of fear but out of frustration that no one really listened or those who did, passed us off as "chicken little" type of folks..... and yes there are extreme "ware Ye" sign carriers touting the world is coming to an end, which really dont help the case that there are people who really would kill you for your beliefs cause those beliefs do not fit in with the Caliphate order......

When there is no freedom of choice, then there is no freedom at all..... and that applies in any state, nation or world government..... 

My children are learning from me all the time, and i trust that they will do the right thing and not say the wrong thing at the wrong time, cause we have preps and not because anything we do is "unlawful" and so far they are EXCELLENT in that area for being so young and knowledgeable about what we have and what i tell them or teach them...... ages nearly 7, nearly 9 and 10..... though walking through the camping store a couple years ago, my youngest pointed out ALL the things we do have to me, and i was happy that no one was close enough to hear his "dad you got one of those, and two of those" and "dad we could use one of these for...." we have since worked on security of data with him...... and in a good way!

William
Idaho republic


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## chickenista (Mar 24, 2007)

Grey all the way, baby!!
Do what you have to do to get along. Cause no waves. Draw no attention. Dying for a cause gets you nothing but dead. Survival at all costs.


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## kirkmcquest (Oct 21, 2010)

chickenista said:


> Grey all the way, baby!!
> Do what you have to do to get along. Cause no waves. Draw no attention. Dying for a cause gets you nothing but dead. Survival at all costs.


I disagree. A life without the freedom to live it on my terms isn't worth living. I won't be a willing cog in someone else's machine. Better to go down fighting in some cases.


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## thequeensblessing (Mar 30, 2003)

I dunno...in a situation such as this, I think the Saints would all come together for the common good and general defense. I think....


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## Ernie (Jul 22, 2007)

A thing I've learned is this ...

If you think you're "safe" because you've gone gray, then you're dead wrong. Stalin killed MILLIONS of his own citizens who never spoke a word against his government. Why did he do it? Because they didn't fit his plan.

Guess what? You don't fit the plan either. If you did, you wouldn't be reading on this forum.

So quit worrying about getting your name on a list. There IS a list and your name ISN'T on it. That list is reserved for the precious few people who they'll allow to live free. It's only got their names on it. You didn't make the cut. You didn't donate enough, you weren't rich enough, you weren't the right skin color, or you weren't lucky enough to attend the right schools. 

God always allows the cup of iniquity to get so full before he overturns it. Always. We're almost there. They can't squeeze in another drop.


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## bee (May 12, 2002)

Ok Blue3duck..I checked the spelling..England english is grey and us American english yanks use gray.. or as the site says" English grEy-- American grAy..I learn something everyday!

regardless it somewhere between black and white.....


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## Ann-NWIowa (Sep 28, 2002)

Gray is good.  However, if its "me" or "them", then I figure I might as well take some of "them" out as I go. I know where I'll be going, I doubt they'll be so fortunate.


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## texican (Oct 4, 2003)

I could imagine going gray, easily. Fit in, go along, until the time for a grand action was called for, complete the action, and if possible, remain gray, and later complete more actions... if the Marxist/Stalinists started rounding people up and disappearing them, then it would be time to go black... and Samson as much command and control as possible.

Ernie, I have to wonder if the peasants, if armed as well as Americans are, would have been rounded up so easily by Stalinist forces.

Unless the country was partitioned, going gray would be the only game in town... if caught on the wrong side of the partition line...

Hopefully I'll be on the 'right' side of the partition line.


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## kirkmcquest (Oct 21, 2010)

The country will not be partitioned, that was tried once and they were trounced hard.


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## manygoatsnmore (Feb 12, 2005)

kirkmcquest said:


> The country will not partitioned, that was tried once and they were trounced hard.


Yes, and it was a total SHTF situation for many, many people in the process. Are you ready if history repeats itself?


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## Ernie (Jul 22, 2007)

texican said:


> Ernie, I have to wonder if the peasants, if armed as well as Americans are, would have been rounded up so easily by Stalinist forces.


http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=3897393411603039499#

"Harvest of Despair". Watch it. Learn from it. I think it's highly likely we'll see it in our own lifetimes here in the United States.


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## Honduras Trish (Nov 30, 2007)

This is a really serious thread, so I'm going to apologize first, then admit that when I read the thread title, my first thought was . . . 



when the shtf, and there's no hair dye available, I will be going _very_ gray!


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## wyld thang (Nov 16, 2005)

Hoggie, I'll just relay my sister's observations living in a muslim country and "fraternizing" with the local Christians...there is no going grey. The folks who choose Christianity know they choose death. It's an all or nothing existance, and the Christian experience those people live in makes the risk worth it. Kinda makes ya wonder, huh?

Again, there is no grey in a totalitarian, fundamentalist muslim regime. And obviously neither in a Christian one too.


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## chickenista (Mar 24, 2007)

kirkmcquest said:


> I disagree. A life without the freedom to live it on my terms isn't worth living. I won't be a willing cog in someone else's machine. Better to go down fighting in some cases.


You are quite welcome to disagree.
I prefer to live.
And the Stalin regime was an extreme circumstance and I would be dead whether I laid low or not.
I just prefer not to be a nameless, faceless corpse that died for absolutely no gain or whose death for a cause changed nothing.


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## mpillow (Jan 24, 2003)

I can play grey.....my husband would have trouble...he's politically incorrect on purpose!

That said my kids are very different than most kids today...comments this week when youngest held the door for elderly gentleman "You are raising a fine young lady" my reply "Yes sir we try!"
Daughter today at the store...I asked her to help me and another with putting carts away...she's 15 and all hormones..."Yes ma'am"

It doesn't blend well...


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## Our Little Farm (Apr 26, 2010)

I'm past grey, I'm now charcoal.


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## navygirl (Oct 23, 2005)

Yep, no gray here... Pretty sure I could never live as a slave. For what it's worth, I'm definitely kooky according to my work-mates. My friends understand me, but don't quite think as far in the same direction.


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## Cyngbaeld (May 20, 2004)

To live is Christ to die is gain.

I will neither hide my faith or attempt to blend in with those opposed to it.


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## soulsurvivor (Jul 4, 2004)

I was a happier person when I held beliefs similar to my family and community. Now, I just stay quiet most of the time because anything I have to offer is usually upsetting if I'm taken seriously. I'm closer to death than most and I don't see any reason to interfere with the belief systems of others. Am I grey (gray)? Oh yea.


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## Harry Chickpea (Dec 19, 2008)

History can be a lesson.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timur


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## unregistered29228 (Jan 9, 2008)

We already live kind of gray - we keep our religious, gun, political and financial info hidden from our community. We don't let anyone know we prep, and although we're active in our community (baseball and community service) I think anyone would be surprise to know how he live. Even when kids sleep over here, I lock the areas of the house that have our food in them.

We'd be even more this way if we had to be. We'd close ourselves off from the outside world and defend what we have. Although I'd gladly take a bullet if I had to, declaring my faith.


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## Shrarvrs88 (May 8, 2010)

hmmm...this is a hard one for me. If I trully believe that something is wrong....You are going to be hard-pressed to get me to do it. I don't vaccinate, I don't bottle feed, and it would have to be a true emergency to get me to birth in a hospital. 

I have strong beliefs when it comes to my kids and my lifestyle. It would be very hard to get me to bow to authority for any reason if it meant breaking my personal values. HOWEVER, I do have a breaking point. 

:shrug: I guess it is what it is...


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## FyredUp (May 22, 2010)

If the short term need is to be gray and blend until the opportunity rises to be involved in a serious effort to overthrow the invader then I say that is the prudent choice. 

Of course being a gun owner, or any number of other seemingly innocent activities could already have you on a government watchlist. It is completely believable that any invader would use those same lists to round up possible disidents.

Gray may not be enough, you may have to go into hiding to prevent being rounded up, imprisoned, enslaved, or killed. Blending in or hiding seems to me to be a much smarter choice than simply allowing yourself to be among the first killed for no gain because you refuse to go covert initially.

IMHO their is NO ONE in today's world that isn't some shade of gray. We all hide things from our neighbors, firends, family, and most certainly the government that we would not be comfortable with them knowing. Whether that is private pruchase forearms, prepping supplies, a hidden bug out location, or whatever. Very few of us reveal 100% of ourselves to many, or anyone we know.


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## glazed (Aug 19, 2006)

Isn't "going gray/grey" basically the same as being "politically-correct?"


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## KarmaKar (Nov 3, 2010)

glazed said:


> Isn't "going gray/grey" basically the same as being "politically-correct?"


I think so, but it is more too. Not just not being offensive to those around you by choosing language carefully, but more becoming invisible.

Yesterday it took reading a few posts to understand how the OP was using "going gray." But I read it to mean blending in so others don't even notice you are there.

You can be politically correct and outspoken. As well as blatant in showing who you are at your core. If you need to, can you blend into others around you in a way that makes you invisible in society. Or will your faith, lifestyle or other core values stand out and set you apart.

For me, I do my best to speak my mind while holding to a politically correct tone. It isn't me again you or anyone else, just, open your eyes to the world around you folks! I don't preach but others know I am a believer. I don't tell anyone I prep, but help those who caught a clue and offer suggestions of looking forward to one's future needs. I don't tell others what to do, but try to live by example.

As I live in a city, I have to take the prospect of riots seriously. If due to economic collapse, well luckily, everyone knows I am at the low rungs of the economic ladder, so my preps will go unnoticed unless I call attention. That is gray for me. 

If it is a religious issue, I will not deny my faith. However, will I continue to wear it openly, I guess is the question. Sufficiently to assure I have not denied Christ. I can't bend too far there. No shouting maybe, but not denial either.

Should my other core values be attacked, I hope I could hide sufficiently to remain unnoticed. But, when you are known for having and opinion and being willing to share it, sudden silence is obvious. 

Thanks for showing that now is the time to step back and begin to "go gray." If I wait until something big happens, I may have a reputation that could have others expect the knowledge and forthrightness I have shown mean I should lead (ouch, not my goal or desire) or at least be a red flag in their memory (Hi, Mr Government Man, or Religious Zealot, you are not interested in my but my coworker over there....).

Good question, great answers.


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## willow_girl (Dec 7, 2002)

BTDT, sorta. I lived in an extremely conservative Christian part of Michigan for six years. The local mantra was, "If you ain't Dutch, you ain't much" -- and I wasn't Dutch, either! 

Never had any problems, really. I tried to be a good neighbor and the people around me reciprocated. OTOH, I didn't exactly fly my freak flag, either. I did get a funny look once at a Farm Bureau meeting when I politely turned down the lady passing out Bush/Cheney bumper stickers. OTOH, I once was mistaken for a Mennonite when I went to work with my hair hastily gathered up in a bun! :hysterical:


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## willbuck1 (Apr 4, 2010)

Nobody on this site is grey. I guarantee that you are on a list somewhere. The only thing that might differ for each of us is the level of threat we are considered to be. Make no mistake, in such a situation you will be watched very closely. Some will be marked for immediate cleansing. Independence and preparedness are not something to be valued in slaves. In such a situation you only have value either as one of the elite or one of the drones. Nobody who ever evidenced any interest in subjects like the ones covered in homesteading and prep sites will really ever be trusted even as a drone.


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## Ernie (Jul 22, 2007)

When Forerunner disappears, that's my warning to head to the hills. When *I* disappear, that's YOUR warning to head to the hills.


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## FyredUp (May 22, 2010)

I have long said the best camolflague is to be invisible right out in the open. Go about your daily life, do what you normally do, and don't draw attention to yourself. My local grocery store is so used to me buying mass quantities of sale items that they don't even comment anymore other than to say well I see you found the good deals today again. It has become normal for them to see me do that. 

The only people that know I prep and that I have the weapons I do are my immediate family, and a couple of very close friends. All of them know that if they expect to come here and survive if the SHTF they had best keep their yaps shut about what I have.

Some here seem to be implying that if an invader seized control it is more important to them to continue openly being who they are and practicing their religious faith even if that means their being rounded up, tortured, enslaved, or even killed. I am sorry but that flies in the face of basic survival and I find it hard to believe that any religion's God, with the exception of perhaps Allah, would want you to die so needlessly. Keep practicing your faith, in your home, in small gatherings, and with friends and neighbors. I am not saying renounce your faith, but discretion in the short term may ensure survival in the long run. This country and its citizens would not stand for a foreign invader to be on our soil. The guerilla and underground resistance would form almost immediately and the vast amount of guns and ammunition in private hands would soon prove a daunting task for an invader to control.

Gray today, free again tomorrow.


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## bee (May 12, 2002)

Well now Ernie..you "dissappeared" from the forum not to long ago..how will we truely know "the flag has gone up" for you?? Forerunner has his periods of inactivety(as do we all) soo?? Watching to see when the (admitedly) most outspoken of us go quiet can be taken wrong..they may have had personal issues to deal with that have nothing to do with national situations...just sayn' bee


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## ChristyACB (Apr 10, 2008)

Grey/gray is relative, isn't it? We're all grey to some extent with some people. 

True grey, blending in the face of an adversary that means harm to you as you truly are, is very hard nowadays and will be harder when the time comes.

Talk to some of the UK folks who live in London or other monitored cities. If you get on a facial recognition list, where can you go? What can you do to not wind up on a camera and identified.

Resistence has always relied on the ability to move about at some point unnoticed. We don't have that so much anymore. 

So, I don't think that I could really go grey even if I chose to. All of us who have lived in a society where not being Christian is fraught with tension and the natives are just one beer away from doing whatever they choose to you understand how valuable being truly grey is. I would imagine the same goes for a Christian in a Muslim society or a Catholic in a rabidly Protestant one or what have you.

Once announced, always remembered. We should be very careful in how we announce ourselves now if we have any hope of greyness later. 

I would certainly try though, if I couldn't get away.


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## tgmr05 (Aug 27, 2007)

How grey/gray depends on the situation/circumstance. In a more serious situation, I would stay grey enough to get out, as that would be my first choice. History has shown time and again, that staying in an area unfriendly to you, holds a much higher risk, than simply leaving.....


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## wyld thang (Nov 16, 2005)

willow_girl said:


> OTOH, I once was mistaken for a Mennonite when I went to work with my hair hastily gathered up in a bun! :hysterical:


Haha! But I would have known you weren't because you smile


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## Ernie (Jul 22, 2007)

bee said:


> Well now Ernie..you "dissappeared" from the forum not to long ago..how will we truely know "the flag has gone up" for you?? Forerunner has his periods of inactivety(as do we all) soo?? Watching to see when the (admitedly) most outspoken of us go quiet can be taken wrong..they may have had personal issues to deal with that have nothing to do with national situations...just sayn' bee


You'll know.


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## bluemoonluck (Oct 28, 2008)

What was the quote from Anthony Hopkins in the movie Zorro, when a drunk and unprepared Antonio Bandaras starts to go after the man who killed his brother...."you will fight bravely and die quickly".

As has happened throughout history, some people will be gung-ho and jump immediately into the frey. They will certainly fight bravely, and will also likely die quickly. Others will hold back - either for lack of opportunity or to save themselves and their families. They will probably survive the revolution, and go underground, but they should NOT be discounted! 

IMO the initial "war" will not begin until TPTB are absolutely certain they will not lose. We the unorganized masses cannot expect to win this initial push....those who fight will die, and in doing so they will be marking their families for death as well. It is those who pretend to go with the new program, then quietly gather under cover of darkness with other like-minded citizens, who will be the ones who ultimately win the war for us. 

Of course this is just my 0.02 cents.


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## switchman62 (Oct 19, 2007)




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## JuliaAnn (Dec 7, 2004)

Read most of the replies, not all.

I could only go 'gray' to the point where I was, and my family (yes, this includes my children, one of who is already with the Lord) was demanded to deny Christ as my Savior.My eternal soul would burn in a very real hell, for a very real eternity. This is what becoming muslim means-- denying Christ and His saving grace. They have no personal savior. Musilms do not believe Christ is the son of God. Instead they worship the false prophet Mohammed, paying only lip service to God. Their souls are ----ed for eternity. I will never join them.

If it meant death of our bodies vs. burning in an eternal hell after denying the Savior in order to merely live on earth.... I freely choose death.


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## AngieM2 (May 10, 2002)

Please post about your going grey/gray.
Do not tear apart another's reason for their actions, just cause you don't agree. Especially for their religious reasons for their actions.
I'm trying to keep this on topic, and the topic is not tearing down another's religious reasons for how they'd go/not go gray/grey.


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## ovsfarm (Jan 14, 2003)

Some things I would hide at the drop of a hat; preps, guns, Bibles, my opinions (fabulous though they are!), etc. and deny that I had any. Other things I would work extremely hard to sneak through under the radar; my religion, my family members, etc. However I would not deny either of those last two. I would die for them in a heartbeat. 

Regarding politics and armed resistance, sure I would do what I could, if I could do so and remain somewhat anonymous. I mean, I've seen Red Dawn, after all. But I would not openly engage in armed resistance while there was still some reasonable chance that I could get my family to safety. I would not make them a target by my actions.

I do believe that it would be better to have a bunch of live expatriots, fighting tooth and nail to regain control from outside the captured territory rather than a bunch of dead patriots who refused to bow their stiff necked principles to actually benefit their nation. I'm big on the idea of guerilla warfare - run, hide, and shoot the enemy in the back as they swagger by to survey that which they mistakenly believe they have subdued. As we have seen in history, guerilla forces are extremely difficult to root out and they often win the day in prolonged wars with weak leadership, faulty supply lines, and no international support.


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## Harry Chickpea (Dec 19, 2008)

FyredUp said:


> deleted post quote was here..


So you are saying you need to go grey/gray to be able to post??? Hmmmmm...


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## Kiamichi Kid (Apr 9, 2009)

Ok..I sure wish I knew what was being deleted..


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## Harry Chickpea (Dec 19, 2008)

Doc,

It really is silly, but if we told you we would have to kill you....


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## ryanthomas (Dec 10, 2009)

Kiamichi Kid said:


> Ok..I sure wish I knew what was being deleted..


Anything that isn't "Christian" friendly. I am a Christian and find some of the posts not deleted to be offensive.


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## AngieM2 (May 10, 2002)

ryanthomas said:


> Anything that isn't "Christian" friendly. I am a Christian and find some of the posts not deleted to be offensive.


Actually you're wrong.

the being deleted is the tearing down of another member's post here and why or why not they would go grey/gray.

If their perception is that radical Muslims are going to come get them, and that is the point at which they will not blend it - that's their breaking point.

The subsequent posts, tearing that down, have nothing to do with when a subsequent poster would go gray/grey.

Therefore, don't tear down another's reason for standing up for their beliefs - aka "not going gray/grey", and you won't get deleted.

I've already said this in 


> Please post about your going grey/gray.
> Do not tear apart another's reason for their actions, just cause you don't agree. Especially for their religious reasons for their actions.
> I'm trying to keep this on topic, and the topic is not tearing down another's religious reasons for how they'd go/not go gray/grey.


But, some folks just don't want to get it. This thread is NOT about tearing down another poster's reasons due to their belief system.

And I will continue to delete. It's too bad if you don't like it.
I thought about closing or deleting this thread, but decided I would not give the rable rousers that satisfaction. Be insulted if you choose, but it's your choice.

Stay on why or what will keep you going or not going grey/gray.


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## ryanthomas (Dec 10, 2009)

I apologize for my comment, Angie. It wasn't fair to you. I'll answer the question the OP asked. If I am ever put under totalitarian rule I will try to blend in as much as possible without denying my faith. I will do my best to "submit for the Lord's sake to every authority instituted among men." Even if the authority is Muslim. I think I would go so far as to attend prayer meetings in mosques if it was required. That being said, I wouldn't accept the faith. And I would also be looking for a way out from under the totalitarian rule by getting to another place if it isn't forbidden by the authority. It's a complicated subject.


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## AngieM2 (May 10, 2002)

thank you RyanThomas - it is complicated and one that we all must think on.


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## Wanderer0101 (Jul 18, 2007)

I try to be pretty "gray" now with regard to many matters. I've also had very practical experience with being Christian in a Muslim country where any overt Christianity was banned. You can be very covert without compromising your principles. I never found any good reason or requirement for kicking people in the shins to demonstrate my faith or anything else.


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## susieM (Apr 23, 2006)

Same God. I would convert.


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## Sonshine (Jul 27, 2007)

wyld thang said:


> Hoggie, I'll just relay my sister's observations living in a muslim country and "fraternizing" with the local Christians...there is no going grey. The folks who choose Christianity know they choose death. It's an all or nothing existance, and the Christian experience those people live in makes the risk worth it. Kinda makes ya wonder, huh?
> 
> Again, there is no grey in a totalitarian, fundamentalist muslim regime. And obviously neither in a Christian one too.


I agree, when it comes to my faith, there's no such thing as grey. Even if it means my family may suffer. I figure if it comes to us suffering and dying then we'll be going to a better place.


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## bluemoonluck (Oct 28, 2008)

Thinking about it more, if we were taken over by a culture that required clothing that is homogenious and covers a great deal of the body (ie the total-body covering that is required of traditional muslim women) I think I'd be MORE likely to go grey / go with the flow. 

Think about it: It would be easier to "blend in" with the crowd if we're all dressed alike and our faces/identifying characteristics are covered up. If I don't stand out, I cannot be an easy target for our oppressors. If I were to attend an underground meeting of rebels and they see us fleeing the scene, they'd have a heck of a time identifying for certain who was there and who wasn't....where as if we were wearing street clothing at least they'd know to look for a brown-haired female.

And I think I could conceal a great deal of items beneath those flowing robes.

Knowing that I could be, for all intents and purposes, anonymous in my oppression for some reason makes it easier for me to imagine just going with the flow while I re-group with like minded individuals.

And of course since only women are required to keep their bodies covered, I believe that women would lead the revolution  We'd have to be key players - the men wouldn't have the same ability to hide themselves and their actions as us girls would.


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## Ernie (Jul 22, 2007)

Well, there's various forms of "gray".

If I am told that I can't wear a cross around my neck in public, well, I'm not going to die for that. I don't know there's any place in the bible that tells me I HAVE to wear a cross around my neck.

If I'm told that my sons cannot be taught the Christian religion and will be forcibly taken from me and trained in another religion, then yes, I'll die to prevent that. 

It's not going to be an all or nothing thing. For each individual act we will have to decide what we will or won't accept, just like we've had to do with the creeping athiesm that's taken over our schools and government for the past hundred years. 

But I really don't expect it to come to this. All through the bible we see points where God put His people beneath the thumb of an enemy nation, but we never see a point where they were forced to give up their religion. Even under the Pharaoh the Israelites were allowed to maintain their own religion. In fact, the only problem was that so many of them WILLINGLY gave up their religion time after time. 

The cup of iniquity will be poured forth long before we are forced to submit to Islam.


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## Bruenor (Oct 2, 2008)

Currently I share my faith through my testimony and through my actions. I will always continue to do both, no matter what circumstances I am in.


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## Owldancer (Jun 24, 2010)

My in-laws are all progressives. No matter how much I have tried to keep my mouth shut it just has not worked. They know about my believing in the Constitution, freedoms, individual rights and responsibilities, etc. And they know I have guns and believe in them.

No hope for me since two work for the government, and would put my name at the top of the list. 

I would have to not exist right away! Off to the back country for me. Hide where I could and then hit and run when I could.


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## hoggie (Feb 11, 2007)

AngieM2 said:


> But, some folks just don't want to get it. This thread is NOT about tearing down another poster's reasons due to their belief system.
> 
> And I will continue to delete. It's too bad if you don't like it.
> I thought about closing or deleting this thread, but decided I would not give the rable rousers that satisfaction. Be insulted if you choose, but it's your choice.
> ...



Sorry Angie - I didn't realise I was opening a topic that would upset people - it was genuinely meant.

Maybe I should explain what started me off. Where I live, the islands were occupied by the Nazis in the war - people living in the islands didn't know if the British were ever coming back, for all they knew this was the new future. They coped the best they could - and later many were accused of being "collaborators". 10 miles away in France, the French resistance worked away during their occupation, often leading "grey" lives in order to further the work of the resistance. 

Even in Germany, there were those who sheltered and protected Jews - had they stood up and said "I believe we shouldn't persecute the Jews" and been shot for it - where would the Jews have been ? 

I guess I am thinking that, although we can all fall on our swords to make a point for our cause (whatever that cause may be) how does that help the cause in the end? 

Now of course, our thoughts are towards Islamist regimes rather than Fascist or communist - but the end result could be the same!

I honestly don't know how I would react - so much would depend on what the circumstances were and what was at stake 

Sorry again if I have stirred up a can of worms

hoggie


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## hoggie (Feb 11, 2007)

Ermie - I am ot sure about people not being forced to give up reilgion - the Romans made a habit of feeding Christians to the lions, in England the Protestants and Catholics made a habit of turnign on each other and putting each other to death, some of the worst atrocities in European history have been committed in the name of religion - whoever was in power insisting that EVERYONE worship as they did.


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## hoggie (Feb 11, 2007)

bee said:


> Welcome "back" Hoggie!




Thank you


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## insocal (May 15, 2005)

I will turn the fantasy scenario to what I believe is much more likely: a totalitarian fascist christian theocracy (muslims don't scare me, I live among plenty of them and they are just as good, bad, and indifferent as other Americans). Yeah, I'd go grey. And I ain't sayin' what else I'd do.


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## chickenista (Mar 24, 2007)

Ernie said:


> then yes, I'll die to prevent that. QUOTE]
> 
> 
> That covers my point.
> ...


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## jlrbhjmnc (May 2, 2010)

I don't know if anyone read about her life, but Margaret Clitherow was grey in her lifestyle but it didn't save her from martyrdom. She had the cover (and loving support - the story of their marriage is a lesson for all of us) of a respected Anglican husband and that didn't save her, either.

I think her story is very relevant to hoggie's question because _*she was killed by the State as it selectively enforced laws against a group out of favor*_ with the Crown. There was a law against torturing and executing pregnant women, but they did it anyway.

In my opinion, this is the biggest danger to us in the United States today - the power of the government getting out of control. We've been cooking like proverbial frogs in the pot as law after law is passed to make doing almost any activity illegal in some way.


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## glazed (Aug 19, 2006)

glazed said:


> Isn't "going gray/grey" basically the same as being "politically-correct?"





KarmaKar said:


> I think so, but it is more too. Not just not being offensive to those around you by choosing language carefully, but more becoming invisible.
> 
> Yesterday it took reading a few posts to understand how the OP was using "going gray." But I read it to mean blending in so others don't even notice you are there.
> 
> ...


Thank you for your response ... I really appreciated it ... this whole thread gives me a lot to think about, too ... yes, great question and great answers.

:donut:


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## Ernie (Jul 22, 2007)

chickenista said:


> Ernie said:
> 
> 
> > then yes, I'll die to prevent that. QUOTE]
> ...


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## oregon woodsmok (Dec 19, 2010)

Put me down for survival at any cost.

Also, I believe that you do more harm to the enemy by sneaking around behind him and biting him on the ankle. You can hamstring thousands and do a lot more damage than you can do by standing up, shouting "death before dishonor" and managing to shoot 2 of them before you die.

Me: patriotic coyote with a mean streak.


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## ovsfarm (Jan 14, 2003)

insocal said:


> I will turn the fantasy scenario to what I believe is much more likely: a totalitarian fascist christian theocracy (muslims don't scare me, I live among plenty of them and they are just as good, bad, and indifferent as other Americans). Yeah, I'd go grey. And I ain't sayin' what else I'd do.


I guess I never thought about being of the same religion (sort of) as the PTB. However, I can say that if that was the case, then I would probably be helping nonBelievers escape to safety. I hope that nonBelievers realize that there is a world of difference between a political Christian and a spiritual one.

But even if I was more in line with the ruling party, in an emergency situation like that I would try to be as grey as possible. Be nonexistant when possible, blend in as much as possible if I had to be seen at all. Some situations are just too volatile to risk standing out.


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## Txrider (Jun 25, 2010)

I'd go grey or more than likely just relocate to a better place..


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## DIM TIM (Aug 9, 2010)

I love a good game of WHAT IF.......

OK...for what it is worth. If you assume that you will go the grey route, consider the modern day Muslim.

To them, we are infidels, and as such are lower than the dirt beneath their feet. We should be exterminated, but they HAVE TO live with and among us.
SO.......they PRETEND to be friendly, and they SHOUT out about their disgust for their BROTHERS killing people. And some people think that they mean it, and all the while they are reminding themselves that they must keep up this act, lest their true feelings and intentions be made public. And all the while they are watching.......waiting.


Sounds like some carefully thought out OPSEC don't it? Hmmmmmmmmm I wonder..........................................................

:thumb:


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## seedspreader (Oct 18, 2004)

I've never been very good at avoiding attention. I don't seek it out, but it does seem to find me.

I certainly wouldn't want to die uselessly, but I don't want to deny God. 

I don't know... I could be like John the Baptist or I could end up like Peter. If like Peter, I hope, like Peter, that I have another chance to live by Faith.

They both ended up being Martyred because they wouldn't sit down and shut up...


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## Karen (Apr 17, 2002)

Cyngbaeld said:


> To live is Christ to die is gain.
> 
> I will neither hide my faith or attempt to blend in with those opposed to it.


That was always my thoughts as well; however, I've been thinking a lot about this lately and have changed my view on that. If it was to save our own lives, we'd go down fighting because we're already dead if it gets to that point. 

*However*, if we had the ability to do something to help others to flee to a safe place of religious freedom; or to help others to find Christ as their Savior; or even to bring encouragement to those persecuted for their faith, then we'd turn gray. Someone has to be here for others until Christ comes to take us home to give others hope from the evil. In all of history, there has always been those who have done that. Who knows how many thousands (or even millions) of souls have been saved because someone was gray to continue to spread the Gospel Message or, to assist those who may be weak in the faith, to endure.


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## Aintlifegrand (Jun 3, 2005)

There will be those among us who must and will die for the cause... and there will be others who will need to go grey in order to forward the cause.. each will have its place...and when the time comes I pray that each will know what will be required of them...IMO it does not matter the individual consequences...as long as the cause is kept foremost in sight.


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## oregon woodsmok (Dec 19, 2010)

By the way, if it is an invading army scenario, they'd probably find it slow going through this area.

Everyone has guns, nearly everyone hunts, and we have a very high participation in the armed services from this area.

Not going to be as easy as taking over, say, politically correct San Francisco.


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## anette (Jun 20, 2008)

This is a great question, and I have found ALL of the answers thought provoking. As are others, I am already kinda gray. I live a moderate lifestyle. I prep, but not ostentatiously. Im prepared to defend self and family. And I can be quiet in my religion, but only to a point.

Lots to think about...

anette

eta: even gray stands out when all is black or white


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