# Want to cut energy usage by 50%...



## Mrs. Weasly (Jul 31, 2009)

I've set a goal of 50% reduction in energy usage by midsummer. I do not intend to replace with solar panels or other renewable besides wood and elbow grease. Here are my initial plans, with some questions:
1. tankless hot water heater (propane)
2. Woodstove (possibly wood cookstove); propane range as backup
3. "solar" clothes dryer only
4. Manual washing machine (NEED IDEAS HERE--if you own one, which one, and does it work for you?) Family of 6--need a large one
5. additional well drilled with manual pump to water livestock/gardens and as backup in power outtage
6. Energy "kill" switch--want to be able to turn off power easily at the breaker, leaving only refrigeration on at night.
7. Only one family car on the road per day.
8. Replacing all small electrics with manual counterpart.
9. No more TV; computer use limited 

So, my questions are these: any manual clothes washer recommendations? Would a kill switch such as I described eliminate consumption of phantom energy? I know it will be inconvenient, but are there any reasons why this would not help me achieve my goal or why I shouldn't do it? Also, having a hard time making the switch in light bulbs, mostly based on difficulty in properly disposing of used ones because of mercury content...

I am in the planning stages of this, and just starting to track "normal consumption" for us, so 50% is rather arbitrary, but my wish is for a large inital reduction the first year, then smaller reductions in subsequent years. Just finished Sharon Astyk's Depletion and Abundance which has inspired me...I just need to invite her to my house now to inspire my family 

Thanks everyone.


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## LonelyNorthwind (Mar 6, 2010)

How many are you, Mrs. Weasley? I lived on a trapline in the bush with my sweetie for 2 years. I washed all our clothes in a 5-gallon bucket with a toilet plunger, but I also had a pure clear creek running nearby. But, your washing machine takes very little electricity.

If you live where you can burn a woodstove and have access to wood you should have one already. A blaze queen or king has a nice flat top, I do at least 50% of my cooking on my woodstove.

Sell your dryer. Use drying racks indoors on icky days, hang them outside when you can. If you fold your sheets & blankets in 4ths they'll drape over the racks, they'll dry.

Buy the best biggest stainless pot you can afford (I have an 8-gallon one) with a good tight lid. Keep it full of water all the time on top of the woodstove. Use that for washing dishes & cleaning up. You'll never be out of free hot water. You can even fill a sunshower in your bath from the pot and get a free hot shower. I've used sun showers a lot and simply cannot use up all the water. If you want warm water in your washing machine dump hot water from the pot into it. Just don't dry to carry that thing full, cold or hot! Use a big pitcher to dip.

I won't have those mercury filled poisonus light bulbs in my house for the very reason you mentioned in disposing of them. Why the blank our government insists on forcing us to use something dangerous to the environment and us is beond me. My grandson broke one trying to get it out of the socket - the stink was horrible and without knowing anything more ahead of time I knew we should get outside for a while. They're rediculous in my opinion. Just don't use your lights unless you need them.


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## Rootdigger (Jan 26, 2011)

I lived with an on demand water heater, it used up a 10 gallon tank a week...now that I think about it I was using a propane fridge during some part of that time so my memory is skewed, but it ate a lot. I found that if I only lit it twice a week to take showers and do laundry (and also cooking every night separate from the water heater pilot light) I would only use 30 gal in 6 months ( the time period I am snowed in for in winter). The pilot light would eat you alive, the same pilot light in all gas appliances, they are killers of energy. If you can get one with an electronic ignition then go for that or just light when you use it.

I posted the following on another thread, the example of the microwave is over 24 hours over a kilowatt, that is 1/7th of the daily use of a normal family. I would say 50-60% of power usage is phantom loads eating 24/7. Get power strips you can toggle on and off for all appliances and have them on only when you want to use the appliance. There is a demonstration house for power savings in town that does this and also does this for the fridge during non-use hours on a timer, like and hour before they leave for work to an hour before and at night when no one opens the door and they cut their energy use by 30% with that one trick. They also used solar cookers and vacuum cookers...with the vacuum cookers you load the stew or whatever ingredients in the morning, bring it to a boil in a minute or so and then leave it on the counter all day vacuumed and when you get home it is eating temp and fully cooked, like 150 degrees 8 hours later and slow cooked all day. Also, a microwave is the most energy friendly heating device there is. I was amazed when I started down the "green energy' path that every green energy hippy had a microwave in their house or workplace. With the most powerful microwave 2 minutes will get anything piping hot with a total usage of 34 watts which is absolutely nothing compared to wood or gas heat, absolutely nothing.

posted on another thread...
The last thing to keep in mind with your calculations is phantom loads. Phantom loads are the little bit of power it takes to keep something plugged in...the wattage rating on an appliance is always the peak load, it doesn't tell you the running load or if there are phantom loads. Not everything has a phantom load but some have high peak loads. An example of a phantom load is a TV, they have a low wattage draw that is always on to keep the capacitors warmed up so when you hit the on button the TV comes right on versus the old TV' from the 70's where it had to warm up first. Any gadget that has a light on is indicating it is plugged in is drawing a phantom load. My microwave is rated at 1000 watts, so if i only run it for 1 minute over 1 hour i have only used 17 watt hours total, but the LCD screen display on the microwave draws a phantom load even when the machine is not in use of 45 watts per hour, almost a full 3 minutes of microwave time is lost to phantom load every hour. The solution is to only plug in the appliance when you are using it.


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## shawnlee (Apr 13, 2010)

I recomend a kill-o-watt meter that you can plug in to everything and get a reading on what is happening to isolate the big users and how much you can reduce....


We turn the water heater all the way down to almost the lowest setting and our gas bill is like 12 dollars a month and we boil water all the time for tea.

Everything..well almost everything is on a power strip to shut it off.....the electric bill is usually 27 bucks a month, but we try hard to conserve.

We still use 2 computers all day and have a 36 inch tube tv with surround sound to watch dvds and such...but do not leave things on when not in use...

We have all screw bulbs in flourescents, next is leds...


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## Jim-mi (May 15, 2002)

If you want to go with a big ole manual washing machine your going to have a trade off. Those big beasts use a lot of water. . . . hence your well pump is running more.
Manual pumping water for livestock is going to get very old in a hurry.
'Today' there are several good options for more efficient electric water pumps.
Some of these can be run with 'just' a PV panel . . . .worth thinking about.........


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## Jim-mi (May 15, 2002)

dup post........forum hickup . . not mine


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## kirkmcquest (Oct 21, 2010)

Do you have to drill a new well...or can you drill into the existing well ( slant drill ) somehow?


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## SolarGary (Sep 8, 2005)

Hi,
This is our program to cut energy use by 50% -- it worked for us, and you may get some new ideas from it:
http://www.builditsolar.com/References/Half/Projects.htm

The main use of energy for washing clothes is the water heating -- running the washer itself does not use a lot of power. We've been using cold wash cold rinse for years and it works fine -- saves a lot of energy.

We found a big reduction in putting our computers AND all the peripherals on a power strip controlled by the computer, so that when the computer goes off, all the rest of the junk around it also goes off -- its at the link above.

I don't agree at all with the comments made about CFLs above -- I think they are great and save a ton of electricity. The net effect of CFLs is to reduce mercury emissions substantially when you include the electric power plant emissions. LEDs are getting to the point where they make sense in some areas -- we just did our kitchen:
http://www.builditsolarblog.com/2011/03/giving-leds-try.html

I don't see anything on your list about reducing energy for heating and cooling -- this is a big chunk of the energy most people use.

Gary


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## Txrider (Jun 25, 2010)

SolarGary said:


> I don't agree at all with the comments made about CFLs above -- I think they are great and save a ton of electricity. The net effect of CFLs is to reduce mercury emissions substantially when you include the electric power plant emissions. LEDs are getting to the point where they make sense in some areas -- we just did our kitchen:
> http://www.builditsolarblog.com/2011/03/giving-leds-try.html
> 
> Gary


I don't either.. It would take well over 100 of them to just equal the mercury in one thermometer. Many AC thermostats have 1000 times that in it.

Every fluorescent bulb out of the billions that have been used for decades has a trace of mercury in it. It is nothing new. People simply overreact.

Besides, in using them for almost 15 years, I've only had to dispose of maybe 4 or 5 of them total.

And the government is not forcing anyone to use them. Incandescent bulbs are simply having to conform to new energy standards, they are not going to be banned, thought the standards will get even tougher in another decade.

CFL's are just a stop gap on the way to LED lights though, that last even longer, use even less electricity, and have no Mercury.


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## Mrs. Weasly (Jul 31, 2009)

GrammasCabin, that is just how I want my kitchen to look--thanks for the pic. Have been washing in cold for years; and will continue to do so--I think I will end up rigging up a homemade washer (with plunger type agitator and wringer) so I have max control over water amounts etc. My super-duper clothesline is to be my Mothers Day present. Isn't my husband a lucky guy that this is all I ask for 

Jim-mi, agree that manual pumping may get old, but I just have a subsistence set up--a few chickens, goats, and a pig--can't be harder than carrying buckets across the yard from my kitchen! (This is all part of my plan to get in better shape, too;-)

And Shawnlee, the kill-a-watt meter sounds like just thing to help me prioritize. Thanks for the tip.

kirkmcquest, our current well (which was here before we bought the place) is 328 feet deep and filled with sulphur...I'd rather have a dowser find me a new one if possible, but will consider your suggestion if plan A is not viable.

Rootdigger, lots to think about there. I had been wondering about refrigeration and whether it can be turned off, at night, say. My freezer manual says stuff will stay frozen for 24 hours, my concern would be a faster spoilage rate in the fridge. But will look into it.

Solar Gary, I will check out that website, thanks for sharing. And I do need to do some more research into CFLs etc--I just recently read an article on how traditional bulbs are being phased out and I get cranky at being "forced" to make a change that inevitably include other types of unforeseen or unplanned-for "costs" as well. re: heating and cooling: in upstate NY, our need for cooling is minimal  But for heating, I plan to heat exclusively with wood.

Txrider, I guess I am ok with stop gaps--I drive a propane powered car--which costs less to fuel, comparable mileage with gasoline, and has 50% cleaner emissions--still, a fossil fuel, and thus in my mind, a stop gap. I'll look into other lightbulbs.

Thanks so much everyone--great information and ideas.

MW


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## Rootdigger (Jan 26, 2011)

I have 2 experiences with the refrigeration issue. I am snowed in for 6 months and one year the main generator broke down in Feb I had a small 1200 watt generator for back up that would power the fridge and freezer only and would only run 9 hours a day and used it like that for several months. Now take into account that everything in the fridge and freezer was purchased in November, half and half, sour cream, cheese and all the frozen meats, everything was still edible through June with no problem. 

My second experience was during a forest fire that lasted a month and I had to disconnect my main power source generator and inverter for that time period. It was about 100 degree temps every day and the fridge and chest freezer were out on the porch in the heat. The upright fridge freezer all the meat thawed on this schedule but the chest freezer was fine. In the fridge its self the vegies did spoil faster but everything else was fine


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## Ken Scharabok (May 11, 2002)

Consider cutting the amount of laundry. For some reason Americans think one needs a new change of clothes every day. I remember when I was a kid when you took a bath chances are the towel had already been used several times and allowed to dry. Socks and underwear can be used for several days in a row. If sheets are changed weekly, what about every two weeks. Same for bathing. Everyday? How about when one is really needed.

Europeans may wear the same clothes for about a week.

Locate what circuit your frig. is on. Each night you simply flip off the other fuses.

My electric hot water is on a timer. Comes on from about 6AM to 8AM. I have all the hot water I need during the day. If I do a load of laundry, there is an override button.


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## mightybooboo (Feb 10, 2004)

Mrs. Weasly said:


> Rootdigger, lots to think about there. I had been wondering about refrigeration and whether it can be turned off, at night, say. my concern would be a faster spoilage rate in the fridge. But will look into it.
> 
> S


BIL did that,and right after that noticed that the quality of milk produced had gone downhill and was spoiling much faster.......:hysterical:

Get an energy star refer and remember the larger it is and the more features the more it costs to run. No FREE lunch on it,just better or worse choices is all.


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## Jim-mi (May 15, 2002)

Existing well 328' . . . . . . .not knowing where the static water level is at but doesn't at all sound like it is any where near enough to where any manual pump would work . . . . .other that the tube gizzmo and hand over hand hauling.......
You'd be worn out just getting a couple gallons for your self.......

Best talk around with local well drillers about the sulphur thing.
I have the feeling that even a new well a 100 yards away would be full of sulphur . . . . . .
Big Berkey time.............


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## Mrs. Weasly (Jul 31, 2009)

Ken Scharabok said:


> For some reason Americans think one needs a new change of clothes every day.


Agreed. I already get several days out of a change of clothes. Having a hard time convincing my family, though! Will keep working on it. Looking into HW timer too, until I can get tankless installed. Thanks.


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## Mrs. Weasly (Jul 31, 2009)

Jim-mi said:


> Best talk around with local well drillers about the sulphur thing.
> I have the feeling that even a new well a 100 yards away would be full of sulphur . . . . . .
> Big Berkey time.............


That was my concern too, but am told that if I dig a shallower well I may not have that problem. There is water closer to the surface. I believe the former property owners wanted such a deep well due to the absence of any septic or other means of dealing with household/human waste. (We have remedied that!) Even so, a big berkey may not be a bad thing to have...

Thanks


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## Ken Scharabok (May 11, 2002)

Various ways to bathe:

Tub bath: Put in no more than 3" of water for a bath. Shower for ten seconds afterwards.

Marine bath: Dampen a facial towed. In order wipe face, hair, underarms, groin area front and back and finally feet.

Navy shower: Run water for ten seconds to get wet. Soap and scrum. Then no more than a 50 second shower finish. (Occasionally when I was in the Navy a ship would run low on fresh water. There would be guys who timed you on the rinse off.)

Rain: If the weather is warm and it rains, but on a bathing suit and let the rain be your shower.


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## Jim-mi (May 15, 2002)

A low keyed phone call to the local 'county' health dept. to see about minimum depth well requirements would be in order........

good luck.........


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## garyinmississip (Aug 23, 2010)

Txrider said:


> I don't either.. It would take well over 100 of them to just equal the mercury in one thermometer. Many AC thermostats have 1000 times that in it.


Thermometers are available without mercury and have been for some time.

How many AC thermostats have you broken and thrown away? Most people don't ever change the thermostat in their houses.





Txrider said:


> Every fluorescent bulb out of the billions that have been used for decades has a trace of mercury in it. It is nothing new. People simply overreact.
> 
> Besides, in using them for almost 15 years, I've only had to dispose of maybe 4 or 5 of them total.


The problem is the billions (your number) that are out there. I don't use very many CFLs but I've already had to dispose of more than 4 or 5. And I''ve broken way more than that many tubes.




Txrider said:


> And the government is not forcing anyone to use them. Incandescent bulbs are simply having to conform to new energy standards, they are not going to be banned, thought the standards will get even tougher in another decade.


Not true. I've been told by more than one retailer that they will not be able to sell the Incandescent bulbs after this year or next (some confusion on when the ban takes effect.) 



Txrider said:


> CFL's are just a stop gap on the way to LED lights though, that last even longer, use even less electricity, and have no Mercury.


Why not just leave the Incandescent bulbs as a stop gap until the LEDs are viable?


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## SolarGary (Sep 8, 2005)

garyinmississip said:


> Thermometers are available without mercury and have been for some time.
> 
> How many AC thermostats have you broken and thrown away? Most people don't ever change the thermostat in their houses.
> 
> ...


Hi,

The law doesn't ban anything -- it sets standards for efficiency of light bulbs. I think it says that 100 watt and above light bulbs have to be 30% more efficient than the current incandescents are.

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/03/12/business/energy-environment/12bulb.html

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/07/06/business/energy-environment/06bulbs.html?_r=1



Quote from above:
"The law does not outlaw incandescent bulbs or dictate that consumers must use the spiral-shaped compact fluorescent lights that have become increasingly popular in recent years. Rather, it sets standards for the amount of light emitted per watt of power used. Current 100-watt bulbs must become 25 percent more efficient, and makers are designing new bulbs. "

It looks (from the link) that there will be some new incandescents that will meet the requirement. It seems to me the standards are not very stringent given that CFLs use 75% less energy that current incandescents.

I don't think the CFLs are just a stopgap -- they work fine in many situations. They have a problem for applications where they turned off and on a lot, and LEDs are a better choice there.

If you include the mercury emitted into the atmosphere by coal powered electric plants, the CFL actually results in a significant reduction in mercury emissions -- this is true even if the mercury in the CFL ends up in the air, which should not happen unless you accidentally break one. The mercury in each bulb is very very very small and getting less as the bulbs improve.


Bottom line is that the bill aims to reduce energy consumption for the purpose of reducing carbon emissions from power plants. If you don't believe that carbon emissions are a problem, then I suppose it looks like a dumb law. But, if you do think carbon emissions are a problem, its basically just like the kind of laws we have that make it illegal to dump your used motor oil in the creek behind your house -- its fundamentally an anti pollution law.

Gary


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## Ken Scharabok (May 11, 2002)

Problem is I need the heat from the bulb sometimes, such as in a refrigerator in the shop for my welding rods, pump house when it gets really cold and for heat for chick/duckling.

Added: If not available at a retailer, suspect they will be a 'black market' for them.


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## Grandmotherbear (May 15, 2002)

I'vebeen putting 60 watt equivalent LED bulbs in my lamps and thinking about one w/a CFB in the ceiling fixtures. I did have one on a timer burn out after 18 months and C Crane and Co. replaced it free of charge. LED bulbs are not recommended for timers.
Edited to add as a 20 + 30 + 40 year old I did a lot of hand laundry when short of cash or on water restrictions. (TL washer) In my 50s I noticed a lot of difficulty hand wringing. Now I have arthritis in my hands and the thought of doing hand laundry ever again is daunting. I do have a scrubbing board for if needed but would have to purchase a wringer bucket to get the water out prior to hanging. I also have a solar cooker I am planning to experiment with- I believe Mighty Booboo did a lot of solar cooking a few years back if you search for his name.


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## City Bound (Jan 24, 2009)

regular light bulbs are toxic also, not just the cfl ones. I think what most people object to with the cfl light is that the government is forcing people to use them. People do not like to be told what to do.

I switched to cfl's years ago, before the feds starting flexing their pretend muscles, and I switched because they lasted longer and cost less to run. I have the same bulbs in my lights now for two years straight. Eventually I will move into LED which last even longer then, and use less energy then, cfl's.

But, if I didnt make the change to Cfl's Years ago and I was now being forced to by the feds, man, I would be ripping angry also.


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## City Bound (Jan 24, 2009)

Grandmacabin, nice info, thanks for sharing.

Mrs Weasly, I am trying to transition to manual clothes washing also.
I have a five gallon bucket that I wash my clothes in and then I run them through the spin cycle in the washing machine to wring them, then I hang them on a rack or outdoor clothes line to dry.
I am looking for a manual wringer now.
Some people use a mop wringer.

I picked up a sturdy plunger from a dollar store (great find) and I am going to try to use that to aggitate the clothes instead of my hand. 

I was shocked how easy and quick hand washing is. I put my five gallon buckey in my kitchen sink so i can get easy water, and any water that splashes out just goes down the drain. No fuss.
When I am done with the wash water I pore it into another five gallon bucket in my bathroom, then I rinse the clothes, then add the rinse water to the bucket in the bathroom also. I use that water in the bucket in the bathroom to flush my toilet. Just pore the water right into the bowel where you go to the bathroom and it flushes the toilet. I can flush the toilet with about a gallon of used water. I use my dish and shower water for this also. I learned this from my chinese friend in china who does this.
Check out Lehmans.com, they have manual washing machines, wringers, and other manual things....they are expensive though.

Check out this video of one option of manual washing:
[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vUqACGizd30[/ame]

It is a little expensive, but I am thinking of getting this wringer.
The claim it gets out 90% of the water. If it gets 90 % of the water out, it is worth the price, because it cuts drying time down greatly. And it does attach nicely to a five gallon bucket.
http://www.amazon.com/Dynajet-BL-38...T5Z0/ref=sr_1_5?ie=UTF8&qid=1301986104&sr=8-5


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## Gailann Schrader (May 10, 2002)

I switched over to a kegerator fridge - a chest freezer converted to a fridge. I love it. More difficult to keep stuff in, but it forces you to cycle stuff through. I've seen a drop in my energy consumption as well.

here:

http://mountbest.net/chest_fridge.html

I haven't done the bubble-wrap for the windows, but really like the idea... Mount on a frame and put on the inside of the windows to block incoming wind... Neat site...


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