# Berkshire x Guinea Hog cross?



## happydog (May 7, 2008)

What would happen if you crossed a Berkshire sow with an American Guinea Hog boar? 

And then picked a couple of the best gilts from the resulting litter and bred them back to another Guinea Hog boar?

Would it be possible to have the famous Berkshire quality pork, in a small easy care package? I'm like Gailann, I'm stuck on small pigs. They just fit my small homestead situation so well. But then I read about Berkshire meat...

Has anybody ever heard of someone trying it or is there a genetic or other reason it wouldn't work?


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## bruceki (Nov 16, 2009)

Introduction of valued traits is why you crossbreed. I can't be sure how much different the resulting hybrid might be, you'll have to eat them to be sure, but this sort of crossbreeding happens all the time. 

I crossbreed new hampshire and berkshires NH hogs have a larger litter size, berkshires are tastier. By doing so my litter size went up from 8 average to 10 average, and the taste is about the same. 


Bruce / ebeyfarm.blogspot.com


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## Bfly Farmer (Aug 8, 2006)

If you want small pigs, why cross the guinea? They have great meat. In fact, they are considered gourmet pork by chefs who use them. I personally think that berkshire gets a lot of hype because there are many more of them being butchered and thus more people to comment on them.


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## olivehill (Aug 17, 2009)

I'm with Bfly, if you're looking for a small pig with very tasty meat the Guinea already has what you're looking for. You're free to cross whatever breeds you want, of course, I just don't see the point in this one.


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## Levonsa (Dec 17, 2008)

We are crossing a KuneKune Boar over our American Guinea Hogs sows. We haev been very pleased with these piglets so far. We had one litter in April and one in May. They have shorter snouts than the pure AGH and seem to be growing faster. They are some grazing little machines. If it is not so hot that they are in their wallow, they are grazing. We really enjoy these small pigs. It doesn't hurt that they become pets, and the sows don't mind if you handle the piglets.


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## Rogo (Jan 1, 2006)

A Guinea boar and a Berkshire sow. Could he get the job done or would you have to use AI? Or maybe a step ladder!


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## highlands (Jul 18, 2004)

happydog said:


> What would happen if you crossed a Berkshire sow with an American Guinea Hog boar? ... Has anybody ever heard of someone trying it or is there a genetic or other reason it wouldn't work?


This is why we cross breed. I'm not interested in small pigs so that is not the direction we're headed but the concept is the same. Just keep breeding the best of the best and eat the rest. In time your herd genetics improve. It takes generations to make it stick. Cull hard any undesirable traits. The larger the population the easier this is to do.

Cheers

-Walter
Sugar Mountain Farm
Pastured Pigs, Sheep & Kids
in the mountains of Vermont
Read about our on-farm butcher shop project:
http://SugarMtnFarm.com/butchershop
http://SugarMtnFarm.com/csa


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## happydog (May 7, 2008)

I really agree with you Walter, cull hard and only breed the best of the best. Unfortunately, because guinea hogs are scarce and expensive I don't see that happening any time soon for this particular breed.

When you can get $200 for every piglet in a litter there's not much incentive for heavy culling. Not too many of them are getting eaten.

So I haven't seen a lot of taste comments except for the occaisional "it was tasty compared to the grocery store pork we're used to." I'd LOVE to find a true taste comparison of different breeds. 

Also, part of the reason I was looking at crossbreeding is to benefit from some hybrid vigor and larger litter size. 

I'm all for increasing the breed for conservation and all. I was just thinking of doing some crossing for personal consumption. 

I've read little guys can get the job done, even if they have to stand on a hill or a log or manuever the sow into a ditch .


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## olivehill (Aug 17, 2009)

happydog said:


> I really agree with you Walter, cull hard and only breed the best of the best. Unfortunately, because guinea hogs are scarce and expensive I don't see that happening any time soon for this particular breed.
> 
> When you can get $200 for every piglet in a litter there's not much incentive for heavy culling. Not too many of them are getting eaten.


There is culling going on, but you have to look beyond the 5 or 6 "big" breeders of Guineas to find it. Also keep in mind that culling and butchering for the table are not necessarily one and the same. While butchering for the table is a way to cull, culling doesn't have to be butchering for the table. 

With guineas having a limited gene pool and a breed _description_ rather than a standard, it's just as important to preserve each strain/type of Guinea as it is for an individual farmer/breeder to establish a strong, consistent herd. Selling those guineas that do not best fit one's ideal herd _is_ a form of culling -- removing those genetics I do not find desirable from _that_ herd. 

Even if we consider the statement that $200 per pig at weaning removes a breeder's "incentive" to cull only in the context of butchering for meat there is no sustainable logic there. The hogs meat is worth more than $200 at butcher and they cost very, very little to get to that point making for a strong profit margin. 

Like I said, look beyond the few main breeders and you'll find a number of people out there working to make the guinea a recognized, viable farm hog again. It's just not necessarily a popular subject when you bring it up, I'll certainly give you that.  LOL!



happydog said:


> So I haven't seen a lot of taste comments except for the occaisional "it was tasty compared to the grocery store pork we're used to." I'd LOVE to find a true taste comparison of different breeds.


Criag Deihl is working with a Guinea farmer in SC and has done some nice write ups on his blog about the guinea, how the ones he's using process out, etc. Not a breed by breed taste breakdown, but good reads nonetheless.

Here are some links:
http://therealdeihlchef.com/?p=177
http://therealdeihlchef.com/?p=204
http://www.charlestoncitypaper.com/...ont-cook-just-any-old-hog/Content?oid=1772657

If you search his site for Guinea Hog there are more there that I don't have handy.


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## Farmerga (May 6, 2010)

I have 2 Berkshire sows that had their litters at the same time(exactly). One was crossed with an American Mulefoot Hog, the other with a Large Black. I also had two full blood American Mulefoot litters born the same week. The cross breeds are growing at the same rate and both are growing much faster and larger than the fullblood Mulefoots. I am all for crossing rare breed boars with more common sows. It is a way to make the rare breeds better known.


http://www.dostersheritagefarm.com


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## HeritagePigs (Aug 11, 2009)

We crossed Gloucestershire Old Spots with Hampshire crosses and have some very nice piglets! They are very fast growers and are living solely on pasture. They also don't seem to mind the heat and sun. Imagine the muscle of a Hamp with the marbling of a GOS... They are selling quickly to folks who want heritage quality without purebred cost.


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## farmerjohn (Jun 11, 2010)

We have 2 pair of registered purebred AGH. We are looking at doing a crossbreed for only our table comsumption and family with some Poland Chinas. We are looking for some Hamp and Yorks for a different breeding program. So we will see how the crossbreeding works. We will although keep the Black Guinea Hogs as viable pairs and for resale as such in our own program.


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## njenner (Jul 15, 2013)

We have two Berkshire/guinea hog cross gilts that are about 6 months old; being raised solely on pasture and home grown vegetables. We plan to butcher one and breed the other to our kunekune boar - I hope he can reach. . . . . .


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## Pig in a poke (Mar 27, 2013)

Our AGH gilt is currently bred to a Berkshire boar. 
Originally the premise was we wanted less fat. But now that we are over a year into raising and eating this smaller, lard-type breed ... 

I honestly think I could use even more lard;
I absolutely cannot fault the temperament of this gentle breed;
they have required only about 35% of the feed of a larger breed; 
the gilt we chose to keep reached over 225 pounds by one year old;
the litter she came from had 11, so no complaints about litter size (we'll see how she does)...
So, I'm left to wonder what improvements the Berkshire can bring to this cross...we will see. 
I agree that most AGH growers are selling their animals at breeding stock prices. Now that we've raised our first litter, and I can see nuances among these one-year-olds, and see that we did manage to select the best for breeding, I feel I could be more discriminating in selecting an AGH boar for her.

Very insightful comment about there not being a breed standard, just a description. Something to think about when trying to envision future goals.


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## TinFoil (Feb 18, 2014)

I will have AGH x Yorkshire cross piglets next year. If everything goes as planned, I should have my first litter around January.


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## gjhinesjr (Jun 28, 2014)

Man this thread is timely. I have an AGH boar and a berkshire gilt (about 275lbs) and I see him mount her, and she stands, but man he just can't reach. I'm hoping that the two of them will figure it out, but it sure doesn't seem like it. He's already been in with her for one heat cycle, and judging by the fact that she's cycling again, it doesn't seem like he's able to get it done.

Those of you with AGH x "Full Size" crosses, did you notice trouble with breeding? Did it take a while? I want to give it enough time as I'm really excited about the cross but I'm not sure what to do, if anything.

I've thought about making a "breeding stand" of sorts, kind of a stanchion for her with a platform on the back for him to stand on. But although she's extremely friendly, he doesn't really let me near him, so I'm not sure how that would work out.

Any ideas?


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## highlands (Jul 18, 2004)

I would just let them go to it. Evolution has equipped them. Even a small boar will do a big sow, sometimes positioning her so he is uphill.


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## Loco179 (Jun 4, 2014)

Pig in a Poke. I was actually looking to do that. My AGH came from larger stock. You just beat me to it. 

1. Are you looking for more marbling?
2. Are you trying to keep that temperment?
3. Do you pasture your AGH?
4. Do you pasture your AGH gilts?

This is exactly what I was thinking. If you are interested I would love to try some of them for feeders. I live in Southern Indiana so driving down to pick them up would be easy. 

I am beginning to think having AGH with Berkshires might be the way to go. Having the quick growing Berkies for the short term and AGH for long term.


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## Pig in a poke (Mar 27, 2013)

Loco,
We have just one AGH gilt (13 months). I'm wishing I'd kept her 2 sisters, now that I see how she has grown. We have 2 AGH barrows (1 is going to the butcher this Thursday) and one younger Berkshire boar (going on 9 months). They are all together on pasture. I'm thinking the boar is on the small size for his age and breed, but that works out well for now. I'm thinking I can get at least one more litter from him with this AGH before he becomes too large for her. Not sure what will happen in the future with him. That is the down side of crossing with a smaller breed: the bigger breed outgrows its use. 

Yes, I definitely am seeking to keep the temperament. The AGH are awfully docile and gentle. Very calm and slow-moving. They love attention. The Berk is more frenetic at feeding, but in the past week (maybe it's the heat), he has really become calmer, has stopped bumping into me, and moves ahead of me out of my way, like the AGHs do. He is overall a good-natured boy. So I would be very surprised if the cross is anything but easy-going and tractable. 

As for marbling, I am not sure what to expect. This Berkshire is a very lean-shaped pig, so I expect there to be less fat/lard in general in the cross. I hope the cross doesn't eliminate too much lard. 

I will certainly post back when the gilt farrows. We'll have to see how many she has before deciding how many to keep vs. sell. Right now I have just one friend who has been bugging us for a feeder. So I am open to selling some more.

How many AGHs do you have? Any females bred currently?


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## Pig in a poke (Mar 27, 2013)

jghinesjr,
The AGH do have some body limitations. I was watching ours try to drink water out of a low trough. They literally could not lift their jowls over the edge. We have limestone outcroppings below the natural watershed, so I moved the trough down below one of the rock steps so they can stand above it and reach the water. So, yeah, kind of a similar remedy to what you are thinking for your boar to breed the larger gilt. Are they outside, where they can use the natural terrain to their advantage? I think they will figure it out.


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## Loco179 (Jun 4, 2014)

Right now I have 2 gilts about 6 months or so. The guy I bought them from had around 60 AGH in about a acre feedlot. I have been keeping them in area to get used to electric fence. I have had them 2 months and they have doubled in size. Its almost time to get them on pasture. I felt getting used to me and electric fence was more important than putting them out. 

For the first few weeks I fed them like normal pigs. I learned fast you cannot do that with them. They put on too much fat. Now they get fed a feedmill ration and oats. They get leftover eggs as well. They seem to be doing well. 

I am trying to research the perfect pig pasture. I am going to run these 2 though a trial set-up to really prepare it. Its gonna be awesome when its done.


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## highlands (Jul 18, 2004)

When we cleared the trees to create our pastures we seeded with soft grasses, legumes (e.g., alfalfa, various clovers, trefoil, etc), millets, chicory, brassicas, etc. I avoid the grasses that go toxic with drought or frost as I can't manage avoiding them in the rotation - eventually they'll be everywhere if they're successful.

-Walter


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## Loco179 (Jun 4, 2014)

I am going to go with the Mark Shepard style pasture. He uses passive water collection with pocket ponds called swales. He plants various fruit, nut and support trees into those swales. Then he pastures animals in the alley. He finishes his pork on the dropped fruit and nuts unfit for humans. He has breed his trees to produce in 3 years.

I have very very heavy clay. Making the pasture is going to take awhile. Good news is that I am getting very good clover cover ( both white and red ). Maybe mess so Rape and turnip in this first year?


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## highlands (Jul 18, 2004)

What you describe is similar to what we do. We are on steep terrain (mountains of Vermont) so not much in the way of flat land and what there is is rocky. We fence with the contours so that the actions of frost, wind, water and hooves naturally create swales and terraces along the mountain side. We do double fence lines planting fruit trees, nuts and berry bushes between the fences which act as creeps. Smaller livestock can get into the creeps but the bigger ones stay out in the paddocks between the lines of trees. This works very well for us. Previously when we had a rain storm the water just ran down the mountain taking the nutrients with it. Now it is slowed and soaks in which results in us having much better pastures.


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## Loco179 (Jun 4, 2014)

How long did it take for your pastures to really get going? I have heard it takes a few years.


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## highlands (Jul 18, 2004)

Years. It was a gradual process for us. We have steep, sandy, stumpy, stony soil. Transforming it from forest to field was a slow process. The fast expensive way would have been to bring in a bulldozer and then machine plant but that was not an option and it would have lost all the nutrients in the soil from the root mass of the trees. Instead what we did is cut the stumps low and then seed by hand. We seeded 70 acres by hand, 135 acres total since part of it we double seeded that first year. Most of that we did not graze the subsequent year so as to give the new plants a chance to set root. 

We do frost, storm and mob seeding since we can't get equipment safely on the land. This works. We trade a slightly lower efficiency of seed use but are able to work land that is too rough for tractors. On flat land you could speed things up by a year and get about 10% to 20% better seed use I suspect.

The following year we started grazing those areas. We already had 20 acres grazing so this was doable. Each year we use about 40 acres of the total in a grand rotation and within that do the managed rotational grazing. We now patch seed a little bit where necessary but that is pretty minor. After three years the grazed pastures were nice and each year they all get better. Most of our pastures extend slightly into wooded areas which gives a variety of climes, shelter and shade.

The reason for doing the big jump in pasture size from 20 to 70 acres even though we don't need the whole thing yet is that: 1) I knew it would take time to improve the pasture and 2) it was more efficient in terms of the logging back the 100 year old forest from the old pastures where it had grown in. Bringing in the logging equipment five or ten acres at a time wouldn't have been cost effective. Our herds grow each year in small increments but the pasture needed to grow in larger jumps for efficiency and economics.

See:

http://sugarmtnfarm.com/2009/08/02/.../http://www.sugarmtnfarm.com/?s=frost seeding

http://sugarmtnfarm.com/2009/08/02/field-clearing-grapple-skidder/

-Walter


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## Beggs n Achin' (Feb 26, 2021)

I'm breeding AGH/KK boar to Hamp/York/Duroc mamas. My first one didn't turn out so well for weight gain, but there are a lot of factors involved, not the least...younger piglets in the stall with them hogging off all the grain. My second mama has two week olds, healthy, fat... That's this pic, here. We will see how those ones turn out. 

I'm documenting the whole endeavor by video and farm blog on my website, if that helps. 
beggsnachin.webstarts.com











happydog said:


> What would happen if you crossed a Berkshire sow with an American Guinea Hog boar?
> 
> And then picked a couple of the best gilts from the resulting litter and bred them back to another Guinea Hog boar?
> 
> ...


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