# Bunny poo-ponics vs. Aquaponics



## Johnny Dolittle (Nov 25, 2007)

Ok say I don't want to do fish.... and I have some small livestock .... Could I just add the daily droppings to a tub of water and pump it through a biological filter to feed plants and then recirculate it back into the tub ???

and should this post belong in the rabbit forum ?


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## ||Downhome|| (Jan 12, 2009)

The biofilter is for nitrification of the fish waste (Ammonia).
Basically the bacteria process the Ammonia into Nitrites and nitrates which are available to the plants.
You would be doing a organic form of hydroponics.
You would not need the Bio filter.
You may need to supplement it with other organic materials.
The plants would give you indications based on how they react.
nutrient deficiency is seen pretty quick in hydroponic systems.
spots on leaves,browning tips,yellow leaves ect.
But I know many gardeners that would kill for rabbit droppings.

What I would recommend though is doing this passively.
Container gardening if you will.
Using something like a coco choir. 
I find peat to be a little acidic.
saugum moss I have not really seen much in planting mixes anymore.
these mixes are referred to as soiless planting mix.
Basically inert and you have to add the nutrient.
I really like coco choir and mix it with plain old sand at 2 to 1 ratio.
2 parts choir 1 part sand.
this is a good system because its very forgiving to both newbies and pros alike.
The mix will buffer the nutrient, that is take up and release, less chance of "burning" the plant.
It also holds moisture well.
The sand is cheap and prevents the mix from packing adds necessary aeration.
The choir is not to bad either, use to be hard to find but seems every other corner has grow shops any more. I can get a compressed block that expands to 2 cu feet for 12.99 and can be used many times over.
Remember I mentioned the buffer effect, eventually the choir or what ever you use in place will need to be replaced or leached. 
as far as feeding you can water bottom up (which I prefer) just have a container you can fill and the pots will wick it up. Or top down, manually or with drip emitters.

You may find you need to add in some nitrogen number of ways you could do that.
First one comes to mind if you want to stay organic is pee.
The other is Fish emulsion.
Either you could provide for yourself.
The third is a standard fertilizer..

Another thing thats critical for a long growing crop is magnesium. as the choir tends to lock it up. I use Epsom salts which provides the magnesium as magnesium sulfate . I find a tablespoon per 5 gals of nutrient, every other feeding to be sufficient.
you don't want to get crazy with it though the sulfate side can make the mix toxic to the plants over time. if you develop problems you can leach the mix though.

only other thing I can add is if you water from the top side itas best to water with just water then apply you nutrients. other wise if you need to water later (you dont always use the nutrient) you will wash away the nutrients you added. better to have the mix moist then the nutrients.


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## Johnny Dolittle (Nov 25, 2007)

Thanks but why do you say I do not need the bio filter ? The rabbit manure will have N in the organic ammonia form same as the fish ...


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## ||Downhome|| (Jan 12, 2009)

not the same though, the fish waste is much higher concentration.
at least in a intensive aquaponics set up. 
IMHO you don't need it.
Rabbit manure can be applied direct so a tea should not be different.


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## ||Downhome|| (Jan 12, 2009)

double post


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## ||Downhome|| (Jan 12, 2009)

bacteria in the soil or mix or medium will break it down but a biofilter will do it faster.
which in the aquaponics is necessary because anything not broke down or "evaporating" goes back to the tanks and to high a level is not good for the fish. 
even if the plants don't up take the nitrites and nitrates not half as bad as the ammonia.

think thats a better explanation.


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## Johnny Dolittle (Nov 25, 2007)

There is a man on youtube who makes prepper videos.... username is Mphgardener. He has experimented with various diy hydroponic systems and is now experimenting with aquaponics.

In one of his videos he tested various hydroponic nutrient solutions (which always contain N in nitrate form). He also used Miracle Grow which is a synthetic fertilizer with N in ammonia form. The testing was done with lettuce using raft system. The miracle Grow solution (which was balanced with additional calcium ) grew at a much slower rate.


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## tentance (Aug 16, 2012)

the nitrogen in the rabbit manure is already in the form that plants can take up. you do not need a bio filter at all. i have potted plants and water plants growing in nothing but rabbit manure. in fact, i second that watering your bunnyponic garden from the bottom via wicking is a much better idea than using electricity to run a pump system, generally that is done to help water aerate and circulate fast enough to support fish. but if you have no fish then you have no reason to need a pump.








These plants in my new pond are growing on bunny poo ponics, passively. no pump. bubbler broken. also a betta fish and many many tadpoles. literally, the floating planters are filled with poop, not dirt.
two cannas, papyrus, taro, and mint. happy plants. i'm not saying you need to build a pond, but that bunnypooponics does work without a biofilter. there was a guy on youtube growing giant tomatoes with a wicking hydroponic setup, think he was reusing kitty litter boxes. it was awesome.


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## tentance (Aug 16, 2012)

> There is a man on youtube who makes prepper videos.... username is Mphgardener. He has experimented with various diy hydroponic systems and is now experimenting with aquaponics.


thank you. this is the guy with the awesome hydroponic tomato buckets.


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## ||Downhome|| (Jan 12, 2009)

scratch that I see he you mentioned he balanced the ph of the miracle grow


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## Johnny Dolittle (Nov 25, 2007)

||Downhome|| said:


> scratch that I see he you mentioned he balanced the ph of the miracle grow


Well yes but also Calcium is a necessary secondary macro nutrient.


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## Johnny Dolittle (Nov 25, 2007)

For the record .... I am trying to set up a small growing business for retirement income. I am 60 and retirement is a ways off yet. I bought some used greenhouse frames to use as high tunnels and am now growing in some of them. I have enough frames to cover 1/4 acre. I am thinking I might heat one and set up either a hydroponic or acquaponic system. It will probably be just hydroponics... because it is easier and safer.


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## Johnny Dolittle (Nov 25, 2007)

Also I wonder about safety. With warm blooded animals you have issues with Salmonella and E. Coli strains of bacteria. Fish are cold blooded and so risk is minimal if non existent !


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## Johnny Dolittle (Nov 25, 2007)

Here is the final result video of MHPgardner's fertilizer experiments on his modified raft system. He has a few earlier experiment videos also.

Like I said .... I am looking to grow commercially for profit so a finely tuned system will be needed. Backyard systems need to only perform to the satisfaction of the user.... and low input systems without pumps and need for electricity are often more desirable

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TQzgMve9hoA


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## ||Downhome|| (Jan 12, 2009)

Miracle grow is acidic, it was originally intended for tomatoes and they like things a little on that side of the ph spectrum. which is why I assume he added the calcium.
Post 10, I had started to say it may be because of the ph causing the difference in growth rates.

I have gotta think that Salmonella and E. Coli would not be issue with the rabbit manure.
you could always compost it first wich is where you could add in the other potentially needed organics. Chicken manure would be a great addition bumping up the nitrogen content and aiding in breaking down the carbon in the rabbit manure.
you could also set up some sort of solar sterilizer and let the sun cook the tea but then you'll kill off other beneficial bacteria and perhaps destroy helpful enzymes.

You could always run a few batches and test to see if it is of any concern?

I think we are all trying to get at least ahead of the curve. I have a pretty decent sized project planed. Which "should" produce some profit, in a few year my biggest concern is to cover the taxes. I'd be happy just to do that and provide food for us. I'm not looking to get rich just cover the bills.

I really think the aquaponic routes the way to go, But I also love eating fish. a pure setup though needs some supplement to increase the range of plants you can grow. 

with you side stepping the fish , and going "hydro" will eliminate a good bit of work load and potential failure. I suppose thats what you mean by safer.


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## ||Downhome|| (Jan 12, 2009)

I watched the vid I see he's not adding any oxygen to the solution.
could be a factor. 
those benificial bacteria remember are aerobic, and the roots need oxygen also.
may have achieved different results.
In soil and soiless your going to have that oxygen.

I never cared For MG and usually use a fertilizer that has at least macro nutrients added.
I really loved rapid grow and in a soilless pots worked very well.
It had both macro and micro nutrients.
It was also much cheaper then a intended for hydro nutrient.
they no longer produce it though.

the nitrogen in MG though is urea and ammonium phosphate. the second I'm sure you know is providing phosphorous as well. 
So not quite the same as ammonia.

right now I use a 20-20-20 with macro nutrients thats made by scotts.
peters is a good one with micro nutrients bit more expensive though.
comes in a wide range of formulations also.
Course I really have not seen that on the shelf's lately either.


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## tentance (Aug 16, 2012)

rabbit manure contains many if not all of the micronutrients if your rabbits are eating well. for example, alfalfa pellets produce a manure that is high in calcium because alfalfa is high in calcium. the higher the protein content in the manure, the higher your nitrogen output is going to be. if you are planning on separating the pellets from the liquid urine, you will have much less nitrogen in your manure, better to let them urinate on the pellets before collecting.

magnesium can easily be added by using epsom salt. calcium from sea shells thrown into the tanks.

i would definitely agree that rabbit manure ponics would be easier to maintain and run than aquaponics, but it will still need periodic testing for the major and minor nutrients and pH to keep your plants growing optimally. there are many cool digital testers out there that let you see the state of your system remotely, maybe that should be factored into the startup costs. it's what i would do if i was going to set up a large hydroponic system, to save time later. if your system is large enough, you will be busy starting seeds and harvesting, much like the GROWING POWER systems on youtube. perhaps your rabbits could be built into your greenhouses to passively heat them in the winter. or suspended over your tanks so the waste just goes right in.


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## Tomeroe (Dec 14, 2020)

||Downhome|| said:


> I watched the vid I see he's not adding any oxygen to the solution.
> could be a factor.
> those benificial bacteria remember are aerobic, and the roots need oxygen also.
> may have achieved different results.
> ...


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## Tomeroe (Dec 14, 2020)

Why not do both? Have rabbits over the fish tanks. The fish would also eat the rabbit poo


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## Tomeroe (Dec 14, 2020)

Tomeroe said:


> Why not do both? Have rabbits over the fish tanks. The fish would also eat the rabbit poo


And rabbits produce a ton of ammonia as well


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