# What has Obama's presidency done for you?



## Fowler (Jul 8, 2008)

Has any of his decisions affected you personally? If so how?

What exactly has improved since he's been president? 

What were you hoping would improve when he was elected in?

I am just curious why so many defend and cherish him.


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## 7thswan (Nov 18, 2008)

The Commiecare bill upped my BC/BS to the point we had to go with HAP. bad.
My Computer skills have tremendously improved.
Have learned to spot Fake documents.
I think I have an Ulcer.
I knew things would get worse/bad with him in office.
Can't help you on the last part.


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## Laura Zone 5 (Jan 13, 2010)

Fowler said:


> *What has Obama's presidency done for you?*
> 
> Has any of his decisions affected you personally? If so how?
> 
> ...



It has confirmed for me that all humans, are born with sin.
Some chose to be ruled by it, some choose to fight it till death.
It has confirmed to me that man is NOT basically good, that he was born with sin.
What has 'improved' in the last 3 years has zero to do with our president.
It has had everything to do with God's Plan for me.

I defend no president, no man or woman for that matter.


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## DAVID In Wisconsin (Dec 3, 2002)

My blood pressure has gone up. Oh, and my share of the national debt has gone through through the roof and continues to rise with no end in sight.


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## JuliaAnn (Dec 7, 2004)

First, I have been witnessing firsthand the rise of a dictator. For so long, we have only had second-hand knowlege of dictators, learning about them from history or from watching news coverage of the rise and fall of dictators in other countries like Iraq, Haiti, etc., but never ourselves being directly impacted by the actions of a dictator. Now, we have. We are all witnessing the various techniques used by dictators to divide and conquor a country.

Second is the question of how have his actions impacted me, personally? Our business is down some 60% since Obama took office. It continues to decline. As we are not wealthy, this is a direct impact on our income.

What has he done good for us?

Nothing. There is not one thing I can point to that has been helpful or constructive. Not one.


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## Win07_351 (Dec 7, 2008)

It has made me study history more.


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## farmerpat (Jan 1, 2008)

It's made me very conscious of the Great Depression that we are living under NOW, and has made me think about and plan more for when the eventual complete crash does occur. It's made me completely distrust our Dictator In Chief (and his entire administration) who lies to us DAILY with reckless abandon. It has made me very distrustful of ALL government entities. It has made me lose sleep every night for the last 3 weeks. It has made me look at my preps in a whole new light with the realization that no matter how much I or any of us prep, it may not be enough to last us for the very very long period of hardship we WILL be enduring.


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## JuliaAnn (Dec 7, 2004)

Well, if y'all are speaking about the lessons of history.... I have read 'Rebels and Red Coats' yet again. Have read several historically accurate, factual and reasonably unbiased books on the subject of the Revolution, and several biographies and a few autobiographies of the founders and other actors of the Revolution. 

It's given me a deeper understanding of just exactly what the citizens of America at that time were forced to deal with (for example--having British soldiers quartered in their homes, eating out their subsistence as someone put it, raping their wives and daughters, and stealing their possessions) and what state of mind the citizens were in when they finally began to fight back. There are many parallels that can be drawn between that time and now. Not the soldier quartering thing, of course, but others.


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## Cornhusker (Mar 20, 2003)

I can't really add anything positive that he's done for me or this country, but I would be interested to see what his supporters have to say.


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## Danaus29 (Sep 12, 2005)

Let's see;
taxes have gone up
debt has gone up
ss deductions have been reduced (wow, an extra $1 on my paycheck) so I'll get to work longer to collect less
health care costs have gone up
gas prices have gone up
jobs have disappeared
my distrust of the govt has gone up
my fear for the next generation has gone up

I had hoped he would at least find some way to get our people out of Iraq, it was one of his major promises. So far it ain't happened.

I never defended him. I knew trouble was coming when he started calling non-supporters racist.


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## tgmr05 (Aug 27, 2007)

What has Obama's presidency done for you?  Nothing but harm/damage...

Has any of his decisions affected you personally? If so how? YES, paying astronomically more for health insurance, business is down, just found out my house is worth less than I paid for it 13 years ago due to very recent foreclosures in the area, had to cut my pay, my wife lost her job, and groceries are not get getting cheaper.....

What exactly has improved since he's been president? NOTHING, unless you want to destroy the US as it was founded, and remake it.... in that case, a lot has improved toward achieving that goal.

What were you hoping would improve when he was elected in? Are you kidding? Most intelligent folks that could care less about being PC understood what he would do before he was elected, and tried to help others understand, but it is very tough to educate those under the spell of Obama, especially when they constantly listen to the propaganda of the left.

I am just curious why so many defend and cherish him. The number that do is not as high as it is made out to be.....The left wants everyone to think he is great, ala Saddam Hussein, Hugo Chavez, Fidel Castro, etc. If you live in those countries, you would think EVERYONE loves those guys, too.....
__________________


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

He's cost me a *lot* more money for medical insurance and treatments, among other things


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## Nevada (Sep 9, 2004)

Fowler said:


> Has any of his decisions affected you personally? If so how?


I can't say anything Obama has done has affected me personally, at least not to the extent that the last few years of the Bush presidency affected me. I don't say that just because I hate Bush, but because of the enormous lifestyle changes I believed I had to make.



I was first hit with Medicare Part D, which affected my friend negatively. She was prescribed some very expensive meds, and was headed to the doughnut hole fast. I knew I needed to find an alternative for her. That's when I started sourcing meds from overseas. I beat the doughnut hole.
Then about 5 years ago I realized we were headed for a depression. I knew I needed to find rent & mortgage free housing fast. I left Las Vegas to build a cabin 350 miles north. I lived in that cabin for nearly 4 years. There was good and bad to living there, but either way it was a huge disruption to my life.
Finally, the housing crash that happened in Bush's watch had a positive impact on me. Through happenstance, I was in a position to take advantage of low housing prices in Las Vegas, buying a house for $30K that sold for $178K just 4 years before. I suppose that was a good thing for me, and had a profound impact on my life.

There is nothing that's happened on Obama's watch that has impacted me anywhere near as much as any of those three things above.


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## FourDeuce (Jun 27, 2002)

The only thing it's done for me personally is allow me to tell the people who voted for him, "I TOLD YOU SO!".:happy2:


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## oth47 (Jan 11, 2008)

It amazes me that folks who appear to be intelligent otherwise,have such a blind spot about Obama.And my Lord,the lengths they'll go to defending him.I just found out Saturday that a couple that I like very much voted for the O.They've realized their mistake,but I don't see why they couldn't see him for what he is.


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## Win07_351 (Dec 7, 2008)

It has solidified my belief that only landowners should vote.


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## KnowOneSpecial (Sep 12, 2010)

Even though I'm sure that someone is trolling, I'll give it a whirl. 



Has any of his decisions affected you personally? If so how? *Towards the end of the Bush Presidency, my DH's company was starting to have financial problems. Due to some of Obama's infusion of money in the infrastructure, we have been employed and owning our own company all of this time. Now that the Republicans are beefin' about putting money in the infrastructure and making Obama cut some of these programs, we're looking at possibly shutting the company down. *

What exactly has improved since he's been president? *Well, we sold our house for a nice profit (thanks to the homeowners incentives), moved out of suburbia and now have almost 5 acres of Heaven.
*
What were you hoping would improve when he was elected in? *I was hoping to be able to move out to the country on a few acres. Mission accomplished. *

I am just curious why so many defend and cherish him*. Personal employment and prosperity do that to a person. *


I would like to note, however, that I don't think we can lay all of these problems and successes at the feet of one person. The downturn has multiple factors of causation and voting one person in or out of office will not solve this. It took us years to get into this mess and it'll take years to get out.


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

> I don't say that just because I hate Bush


I agree.

It's become more of an OCD thing


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## Shrek (May 1, 2002)

His presidency has given me the opportunity to feel good about hanging his picture on the wall above my toilet .


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## Cornhusker (Mar 20, 2003)

Shrek said:


> His presidency has given me the opportunity to feel good about hanging his picture on the wall above my toilet .


You hung it too high ound:


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## Cornhusker (Mar 20, 2003)

One positive thing I can think of that came out of the Obama debacle is that having an anti American "president" has woke people up.
Since Obama bought the throne, states have issued concealed carry permits, passed castle doctrine laws and pretty much told people "you will have to defend yourselves from the coming Obamapocalypse, arm yourselves."
We are seeing the beginnings of Obamapocalypse with the thugs gathering in mobs beating white people, ransacking stores, thugging it up at election time, etc.
It's coming, it's real, Obamazombies are here.


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## chickenmommy (Aug 24, 2004)

Honestly, my world started crashing when Bush was re-elected. I lost my house and my business and my savings. I can't hold Obama solely responsible for my financial situation. I will say that when I voted, I did not vote FOR anyone, I voted AGAINST Obama because he literally scared me. Every time I heard him speak I became more afraid. Since he has been president I have managed to get a college degree and get my feet firmly planted in a whole new career, but I also don't think he was responsible for that in any way. I still fear him because I think the man we see is not the man he actually is. Therefore I also cannot, in all honesty, trust him or his decisions. Especially when I look at the state of this country today. I know he is not solely responsible for the state if the economy, but I also think he could have done things a little differently.


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## plowjockey (Aug 18, 2008)

Fowler said:


> Has any of his decisions affected you personally? If so how?
> 
> What exactly has improved since he's been president?
> 
> ...


So either one hates him, or cherishes the ground he walks on? So much for common ground. :hrm:

I'll take a pragmatic view and state that if it were not for the Stimulus, CFC and the automaker "bailouts", gasoline would be much cheaper, because less people would be buying it (300K GM, 50k Chrysler workers + 100's of thousand of supply and support related workers/businesses now bankrupt, or on the "dole")

Less motor fuel consumed, would mean less fuel re-processing and less fuel deliveries. I would have had to find a job 'somewhere", with unemployent much higher than it is now. It would not be in the trucking industry, for sure.

These programs hurt the defecit, big-time for sure, but it's not like the defecit was zero, before Obama was elected.


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## Nevada (Sep 9, 2004)

oth47 said:


> It amazes me that folks who appear to be intelligent otherwise,have such a blind spot about Obama.And my Lord,the lengths they'll go to defending him.


Okay fine, open my blind spot. What impact do you think Obama has had on my life?


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## jwal10 (Jun 5, 2010)

Win07_351 said:


> It has solidified my belief that only landowners should vote.


And people that have worked and payed taxes :hrm: Oh and what happened with the whole thing about (this president will bring the 2 sides together because he will do what we all wanted)....Open and Transparent GOVERNMENT....James


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## HTG_zoo (Apr 18, 2011)

My fiancee is probably going to die because of Obamacare. He needs a heart valve replacement, but since we live with the person we rent from, and she makes a decent living, he doesn't qualify for medicaid. He's not yet disabled enough to qualify for disability (and it will be a 3-4 year fight to get it when he is.) Before Obamacare, we were on the list to get him on the Healthy Indiana Plan, which is a program that would have allowed us to purchase insurance for him at $250 a month. The new federal rules for state medicaid funding have led our state to deny this coverage to adults without kids. The cheapest insurance quote we have found, is more then he makes each month. So he's getting by with cheap meds from the low cost clinic, who are pushing him to see the cardiologist that already charged us $350 for nothing.

So due to his impending massive medical bills and our state's joint property laws, we're not planning on getting married any time soon.

Also, my doctor left the country rather then deal with the new rules, which put me in a bind, it's hard to find a doctor who will take a chronic pain patient, let alone one with neurological problems and kidney disease.


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## JJ Grandits (Nov 10, 2002)

prior to Obama, I ran a Landscaping business that supported my family. Since Obama, I run a Landscaping business plus work a full time job and we barely get by. The absolutely worst President in our history. That pinhead couldn't lead a spawning Salmon upstream.


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## Shrek (May 1, 2002)

JJ Grandits said:


> prior to Obama, I ran a Landscaping business that supported my family. Since Obama, I run a Landscaping business plus work a full time job and we barely get by. The absolutely worst President in our history. That pinhead couldn't lead a spawning Salmon upstream.


I don't think he could lead a pack of starving wolves to a fresh kill over flat ground if he was wearing Lady Gaga's meat dress and a pair of sirloin steak sandals.


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## NoClue (Jan 22, 2007)

It's done nothing short of saving western civilization from a terrible and flaming death.

I am profoundly disappointed in Obama as a president, but in my lowest moments I still find cheer in the fact that the alternative was John McCain, which, under the very best of circumstances would have us exactly where we are now, except with Sarah Palin one shaky heartbeat away from the presidency.


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## sherry in Maine (Nov 22, 2007)

HTG Zoo my prayers with you and yours.
While my dh was dying of cancer, I dealt with drs who wanted to kill him with morphine. (during the 'heady days' of big O) We'd already heard of the 'death panels' and I know thats exactly what it is. THEY decide. Not you.
My dh told me 'dont let them kill me- I'll die the way I want'  Drs kept telling me, 'he's gonna die anyway!' So glad that medical degree worked out for them. That was because that hospital was funded by the gov't, and they stood at the bunghole of the gov't, awaiting their money. Why waste a bed on a guy who's dying anyway?
I transfered him to another hospital who were respectful of rights of dying people.

Also during dh's last days, we were hounded by phone repeatedly by some of Obama's thugs about his healthcare plan & how wonderful it was. They were looking for people to support it I guess. I have no idea why they would call us, but they were thugs, repeatedly made harrassing phone calls to us late in to the night, threatened us, etc. That was the first taste I got of 'hope and change' . . . . I didn't vote for him, I knew him for liar & marxist that he was; what I wondered was how so many folks couldn't see who or what he wanted to do. They only saw their own picture in their own head, I guess. 
No, anyone else wouldn't be worse. They might not be 'better' but they wouldn't be tearing down our nation intentionally.


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## Tricky Grama (Oct 7, 2006)

Shrek said:


> I don't think he could lead a pack of starving wolves to a fresh kill over flat ground if he was wearing Lady Gaga's meat dress and a pair of sirloin steak sandals.


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## Tricky Grama (Oct 7, 2006)

Nevada said:


> Okay fine, open my blind spot. What impact do you think Obama has had on my life?


You happen to be one of the few who took advantage of other's misfortune in this horrific presidency by getting a home for pennies on the dollar. 
Don't blame you, just that not many were able to do this-far more lost their shirts & are still losing.

Personally, this admin has kept us from making ANYTHING on savings. Interest rates?? Sheesh-1/2%? Sure encourages folks to put away a little...NOT.

What has improved? The Tea Party has elected a bunch of good people who WILL do something about the debt & spending. As soon as they have the majority. B/c this POTUS is ONLY about SPENDSPENDSPEND.
And a lot of folks have awakened to do research, to educate themselves & others about our gov't.

What did I think would happen or what did I HOPE would happen? I thought we'd be doomed. So much for my accuracy-right on. When now was the last time a POTUS got our credit rating lowered?? Of course most of you have seen my LOOOONG list of debacles from the community organizer sock puppet-NONE of which McCain woud've done.
What I HOPED would happen is that capable people would be app'ted to the cabinet & czar postitions.
BWHAhahaha! Someone name ONE! Just ONE!! Ack.

Who defends this idiot-in-charge?? The far left who cannot find their own rears w/both hands & a flashlite.


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## Tricky Grama (Oct 7, 2006)

HTG_zoo said:


> My fiancee is probably going to die because of Obamacare. He needs a heart valve replacement, but since we live with the person we rent from, and she makes a decent living, he doesn't qualify for medicaid. He's not yet disabled enough to qualify for disability (and it will be a 3-4 year fight to get it when he is.) Before Obamacare, we were on the list to get him on the Healthy Indiana Plan, which is a program that would have allowed us to purchase insurance for him at $250 a month. The new federal rules for state medicaid funding have led our state to deny this coverage to adults without kids. The cheapest insurance quote we have found, is more then he makes each month. So he's getting by with cheap meds from the low cost clinic, who are pushing him to see the cardiologist that already charged us $350 for nothing.
> 
> So due to his impending massive medical bills and our state's joint property laws, we're not planning on getting married any time soon.
> 
> Also, my doctor left the country rather then deal with the new rules, which put me in a bind, it's hard to find a doctor who will take a chronic pain patient, let alone one with neurological problems and kidney disease.


I am so sorry about this...have you tried going to the newpapers? Its possible something could be done in the community-happens a lot here.

Prayers-
Patty


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## EDDIE BUCK (Jul 17, 2005)

What has Obama's presidency done for you? 

To keep it short, I'll just say it has drastically reduced my positive expectations of where America stands, and wondering just how much more of this kind of leadership will it take to wake it up or will it awaken?

I am begining to wonder if there is such a thing as "The Straw That Broke the Camel's Back" or if it is, has the bar been raised to such impossible heights theres no hope, or at least very little hope of ever reaching it again.


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## Fowler (Jul 8, 2008)

oth47 said:


> It amazes me that folks who appear to be intelligent otherwise,have such a blind spot about Obama.And my Lord,the lengths they'll go to defending him.I just found out Saturday that a couple that I like very much voted for the O.They've realized their mistake,but I don't see why they couldn't see him for what he is.


*I agree with this statement.*



KnowOneSpecial said:


> Even though I'm sure that someone is trolling, I'll give it a whirl.



*Dont quit your day job cause being a psychic is not looking good in your future. *




Nevada said:


> I can't say anything Obama has done has affected me personally, at least not to the extent that the last few years of the Bush presidency affected me. I don't say that just because I hate Bush, but because of the enormous lifestyle changes I believed I had to make.
> 
> *I too had to make enormous lifestyle changes, under Obama's watch. My husband has been working on drilling rigs for 27 yrs. To have your livilhood placed in the hands of one person is and can be devastating. So I feel your pain just with the current presidency. *
> 
> There is nothing that's happened on Obama's watch that has impacted me anywhere near as much as any of those three things above.





HTG_zoo said:


> My fiancee is probably going to die because of Obamacare. He needs a heart valve replacement, but since we live with the person we rent from, and she makes a decent living, he doesn't qualify for medicaid.


*I am so sorry, you are in my thoughts.*



Shrek said:


> I don't think he could lead a pack of starving wolves to a fresh kill over flat ground if he was wearing Lady Gaga's meat dress and a pair of sirloin steak sandals.


*LMAO!!!!*


I honestly wanted to know how his presidency has affected you both negative and positive. I read through these threads all the time and the same argument about Obama which I too feel the same way about, and it's his lack of leadership and knowledge.
However the people that defend him give no real reason as to why? what has he done for you? No one on here that I have seen has qualified or stated that they benefited from any of his stimulus.

I think their is one person on here that has said their business has gotten better.

My house value has gone down so much I couldnt sell it for what I owe.
So I support my husband doing what he does for a living, after all we didnt live beyond our means when we bought our house but now it's worth less. And our jobs are too. This happened to us on Obama's watch. 

Thank you all for your input. I was hoping to see it through someone elses eyes but come to find out, I'm not looking threw rose color glasses. And it's not just me that knows he is incompetent.

Instead of donating to Somali why doesn&#8217;t America start taking care of us first and help the people that don&#8217;t qualify for health insurance. All I've heard from this presidency is "How bad we are", "And please forgive us tour", and we need to go "green", and slit our throats despite our face. Let&#8217;s run out drilling and coal mining and never mind "thanks to computers" we are shutting down Post offices. I realize things change and improve. It seems to me when people voted in Obama they and him wanted our demise right then and there and when he tried to implement these changes ASAP, this country went South and he went on a spending spree. And a lot of you didnt care if people lost jobs for "change".

Bottom line is I was wondering if you care now.

Thanks for your answers.


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## Tricky Grama (Oct 7, 2006)

Fowler-


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## NoClue (Jan 22, 2007)

Fowler said:


> *I agree with this statement.*
> 
> 
> 
> ...



What you really wanted was 'Obama's picking on us poor, hard-working Americans' pity fest.

Grow up....

Obama isn't the cause of your problems.

It just so happens that my income went down dramatically while Bush was president. I didn't blame him. I came up with a new plan, and my income has been going up since then - it's more than doubled since it bottomed out in late 2002. 

Since Obama has been in office, my income has gone up. I don't give him the credit - he didn't do it, I did.

I understand you don't like Obama. I don't like him either. He's just another politician though, no different, for better or worse, than any other politician. He doesn't have magical powers. If all it takes is an Obama to ruin your ability to exercise free-will, initiative, and flatten your huevos, how on earth would you deal with a Stalin? or a Hitler?

Seriously....


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## Fowler (Jul 8, 2008)

NoClue said:


> What you really wanted was 'Obama's picking on us poor, hard-working Americans' pity fest.
> 
> Grow up....
> 
> ...


Truth hurts I know, I expect you to defend. After all you stated yourself your income has gone up. I never stated he had "magical powers" he just needs to stay out of things he does not know or understand. Free will and initiative was given away when he was voted in office, now it's his way or the highway.

So how do you like them gas prices? thanks for keeping 10's of thousands in a job


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## bruce2288 (Jul 10, 2009)

Nevada Could you explain for me why you unwaveringly defend Obama. Is it his leadership, personality, race or ideology that has won your loyalty or simply that he is a democrat. I seriously would like to know your reasoning.


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## NoClue (Jan 22, 2007)

Fowler said:


> Truth hurts I know, I expect you to defend. After all you stated yourself your income has gone up. I never stated he had "magical powers" he just needs to stay out of things he does not know or understand. Free will and initiative was given away when he was voted in office, now it's his way or the highway.
> 
> So how do you like them gas prices? thanks for keeping 10's of thousands in a job


I haven't liked gas prices since Carter was President... it would probably go back farther than that, but I wasn't concerned with them until the 70's.

Obama is a total failure as a President, and his greatest failure is that he has not only failed to correct past damage done, but continued right along the same path as all of his predecessors, both in terms of economics and politics. I've got a news flash for you - no matter who is president, from now until the country collapses (and probably not after that, either) the government is never going to get out of your life. That's the price of living in a 'wired', 'connected', 'global', super-power. I don't like it either, but, so far at least, I'm not prepared to vote with my feet, so I can't blame anyone but myself.


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## Nevada (Sep 9, 2004)

Tricky Grama said:


> You happen to be one of the few who took advantage of other's misfortune in this horrific presidency by getting a home for pennies on the dollar.
> Don't blame you, just that not many were able to do this-far more lost their shirts & are still losing.


But that wasn't a reflection on Obama. I have to give credit for making the house affordable to Bush.



Tricky Grama said:


> Personally, this admin has kept us from making ANYTHING on savings. Interest rates?? Sheesh-1/2%? Sure encourages folks to put away a little...NOT.


I suppose, but I don't think you would like what higher interest rates would bring.


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## OkieDavid (Jan 15, 2007)

Has any of his decisions affected you personally? If so how? 
1. For the first time in my 38 years of employment, my pay is less than the year before.
2. Risk to my personal health/safety has increased as the population's distrust of Government officials has begun too take a turn for the worse.
3. His attempts to railroad the economy into collapse have prompted me to put my dreams and desires on hold to free up funds to "stock the larder and batten the sails"... A cruise up the inside passage of Alaska would have been so much more fun

What exactly has improved since he's been president? American Patriotism, religious faith and decline in apathy as American's are waking up from a 295 year nap.....

What were you hoping would improve when he was elected in? I had hoped he would get us out of the Bush wars and bring our troops home......

I am just curious why so many defend and cherish him. As am I


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## Tricky Grama (Oct 7, 2006)

Nevada said:


> But that wasn't a reflection on Obama. I have to give credit for making the house affordable to Bush.
> 
> 
> 
> I suppose, but I don't think you would like what higher interest rates would bring.


Personally, if I wasn't thinking of our fellow americans, it would be good-our savings would be in hi int. CDs.


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## mekasmom (Jan 19, 2010)

Fowler said:


> Has any of his decisions affected you personally? If so how?
> 
> What exactly has improved since he's been president?
> 
> ...


The stimulus was very helpful to my husband's business because a lot of new, big contracts were out there to bid on.

I was hoping he would first and foremost end the needless warmongering that shrub started. I was also hoping he would tax the ultrawealthy and take away breaks to big business like GE, BIG AG, BIG Pharma, etc. I was also hoping for basic universal healthcare for all Americans, not comprehensive, super human care, but basic healthcare. I have been disappointed on all these fronts.

I think he cares about people. If the election were held today, and the choices were the exact same two candidates, I would choose to vote for Obama again. I guess it depends on who the candidate is that runs against him next election as to whether I will choose to vote for President Obama again though. I am very disappointed in his continued lack of strength in standing up to the GOP and their warmongering mentality or their lack of concern for the poor.


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## Nevada (Sep 9, 2004)

Tricky Grama said:


> Personally, if I wasn't thinking of our fellow americans, it would be good-our savings would be in hi int. CDs.


But higher interest rates would almost certainly throw a wet blanket on what little economic activity we have. That would mean harder times for a lot of Americans.


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## mekasmom (Jan 19, 2010)

chickenmommy said:


> I will say that when I voted, I did not vote FOR anyone, I voted AGAINST Obama because he literally scared me.


You know what? I did the exact same thing for the exact same reason, only I voted against McCain because he scared me. I just think it is interesting that people had such fear at that election and actually voted against people instead of for people.

I voted against McCain because I was afraid he was another shrub, or even worse with the war mongering and hatred of the weak and poor in society.

And what is worse, I think people will probably be voting against again in this election rather than for the candidate that they feel is a good choice. People are scared now, and have been for a long time.


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## Nevada (Sep 9, 2004)

mekasmom said:


> The stimulus was very helpful to my husband's business because a lot of new, big contracts were out there to bid on.
> 
> I was hoping he would first and foremost end the needless warmongering that shrub started. I was also hoping he would tax the ultrawealthy and take away breaks to big business like GE, BIG AG, BIG Pharma, etc. I was also hoping for basic universal healthcare for all Americans, not comprehensive, super human care, but basic healthcare. I have been disappointed on all these fronts.
> 
> I think he cares about people. If the election were held today, and the choices were the exact same two candidates, I would choose to vote for Obama again. I guess it depends on who the candidate is that runs against him next election as to whether I will choose to vote for President Obama again though. I am very disappointed in his continued lack of strength in standing up to the GOP and their warmongering mentality or their lack of concern for the poor.


I suspect that's going to be my view in 2012 too. I'm disappointed that Obama hasn't worked harder to make his promises happen, but republicans aren't offering anything I like better. Given a choice between Obama or returning to Bush-era policies, I'll take Obama.


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## NoClue (Jan 22, 2007)

Tricky Grama said:


> Personally, if I wasn't thinking of our fellow americans, it would be good-our savings would be in hi int. CDs.


High interest rates will constipate an economy just as fast (maybe faster) than high interest rates.

I'm one of those that believe interest rates should have been raised a while back. Doing it now though, and I would most certainly enjoy earning some interest on my savings, will stifle what little bit of growth we have. I go a step further in believing that much of our present problems stems from keeping interest rates too low for too long - someone is bound to blame Obama for this, but it really goes back as far as Clinton, and neither political party is going to start playing the song.


----------



## FourDeuce (Jun 27, 2002)

" I think people will probably be voting against again in this election rather than for the candidate that they feel is a good choice."

We can vote for a GOOD choice? When did they start that? I've yet to see a candidate for president I consider a good choice.:bash:


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## Nevada (Sep 9, 2004)

FourDeuce said:


> " I think people will probably be voting against again in this election rather than for the candidate that they feel is a good choice."
> 
> We can vote for a GOOD choice? When did they start that? I've yet to see a candidate for president I consider a good choice.:bash:


Indications are that it will be Obama vs Romney in 2012. Where's the good choice?


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## 7thswan (Nov 18, 2008)

Romney,McCain are Not Marxist/communists like Obama.


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## Nevada (Sep 9, 2004)

7thswan said:


> Romney,McCain are Not Marxist/communists like Obama.


Obama is not even a progressive, let alone a Marxist/communist. He's backed-off on every liberal promise he's ever made.


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## Tricky Grama (Oct 7, 2006)

Nevada said:


> Obama is not even a progressive, let alone a Marxist/communist. He's backed-off on every liberal promise he's ever made.


He's only backed down on things his own party would not agree to passing. ONLY those things.


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## Cornhusker (Mar 20, 2003)

HTG_zoo said:


> My fiancee is probably going to die because of Obamacare. He needs a heart valve replacement, but since we live with the person we rent from, and she makes a decent living, he doesn't qualify for medicaid. He's not yet disabled enough to qualify for disability (and it will be a 3-4 year fight to get it when he is.) Before Obamacare, we were on the list to get him on the Healthy Indiana Plan, which is a program that would have allowed us to purchase insurance for him at $250 a month. The new federal rules for state medicaid funding have led our state to deny this coverage to adults without kids. The cheapest insurance quote we have found, is more then he makes each month. So he's getting by with cheap meds from the low cost clinic, who are pushing him to see the cardiologist that already charged us $350 for nothing.
> 
> So due to his impending massive medical bills and our state's joint property laws, we're not planning on getting married any time soon.
> 
> Also, my doctor left the country rather then deal with the new rules, which put me in a bind, it's hard to find a doctor who will take a chronic pain patient, let alone one with neurological problems and kidney disease.


Prayers are with you
We are facing a lack of medical care here too.
My doctor headed for Alaska, and our ER won't let you in the door if you aren't dying due to the complex, confusing and idiotic mess that is Obamacare
Even though it's not actually in effect, it's killing the medical industry and killing good people.
Nobody knows what to do because the morons who wrote it don't know what's in it, and it's so full of pork and contradictory rules, it's impossible to follow.
Another Obamaco success story


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## Cornhusker (Mar 20, 2003)

Nevada said:


> Indications are that it will be Obama vs Romney in 2012. Where's the good choice?


You are right, that's not much of a choice.


----------



## Nevada (Sep 9, 2004)

Tricky Grama said:


> He's only backed down on things his own party would not agree to passing. ONLY those things.


Not really. Congress was clear about DADT, but Obama even tried to block congress' bill repealing it, by refusing the enforce the bill. Congress seemed to be behind the public option, and dems even had a majority at the time, but it was Obama who wanted it out of the bill.

I'm sorry, but I can't agree with that. Even Obama doesn't see himself as a progressive any longer.

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H3EVoF-LUdU[/ame]

I would like to see him to pay a political price for that, but he probably won't.


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## Cornhusker (Mar 20, 2003)

Nevada said:


> Obama is not even a progressive, let alone a Marxist/communist. He's backed-off on every liberal promise he's ever made.


He was raised by Communists
His "mentor" was a Communist
His father was a socialist
He was anointed by Communists
How can you say he's not a Communist?


----------



## Cornhusker (Mar 20, 2003)

Nevada said:


> Not really. Congress was clear about DADT, but Obama even tried to block congress' bill repealing it, by refusing the enforce the bill. Congress seemed to be behind the public option, and dems even had a majority at the time, but it was Obama who wanted it out of the bill.
> 
> I'm sorry, but I can't agree with that. Even Obama doesn't see himself as a progressive any longer.
> 
> ...


Obama is for sale to the highest bidder, just like any other corrupt politician.
Problem is, he's run by Soros, the guy who wants to crush our economy


----------



## 7thswan (Nov 18, 2008)

Nevada said:


> Obama is not even a progressive, let alone a Marxist/communist. He's backed-off on every liberal promise he's ever made.


He is an admitted Marxist, his family were communists.People just don't want to see it, many don't even know what they are.


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## Nevada (Sep 9, 2004)

Cornhusker said:


> Obama is for sale to the highest bidder, just like any other corrupt politician.


Being for sale to the highest bidder wouldn't be a communist trait. That would be a capitalist trait.


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## mekasmom (Jan 19, 2010)

Nevada said:


> Obama is not even a progressive, let alone a Marxist/communist. He's backed-off on every liberal promise he's ever made.


That's how I feel too. He is allowing his more liberal agenda to be completely stampeded into oblivion. And that bothers me.


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## NoClue (Jan 22, 2007)

Cornhusker said:


> He was raised by Communists
> His "mentor" was a Communist
> His father was a socialist
> He was anointed by Communists
> How can you say he's not a Communist?


By those standards, I'm a Republican, and I AM NOT a Republican


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## mekasmom (Jan 19, 2010)

Cornhusker said:


> How can you say he's not a Communist?


He may have more left leaning ideals than you like, but he doesn't follow through on them. Look at the health care mess. He should have pushed through universal care for all Americans when Congress had the votes to do it. I would have if I were president. I would have called the rank and file Dems to task to push it through and let the GOP squack and whine with no remorse for doing it. Our nation needs to care for our citizens. 

But, instead, he allowed debates and talks and all sorts of compromises into the equation. He has bowed to cow tow the GOP. And I feel that is disgusting. He is not left enough for my liking. Over and over again, he has made compromises for the right. He really isn't "communist" at all. If anything, he is a right-wing lover. And that is not what he was elected to be at all. People who chose to support him wanted a more left approach than he is showing. He is not left enough for my liking. And he has been too compromising to the right on economic matters. 
When I voted for Obama, I voted for peace, which he didn't bring, economic equality, which hasn't happened, power for the people rather than for big business which hasn't happened, power for the weak rather than the ultra-wealthy..... He has followed through on none of that. He is way too right winged for my liking. I'd like to see some "bail-outs" for the people of the nation rather than simply for big banks and auto makers. I'd like to see the downtrodden and poor have access to decent medical care. I'd like to see children have access to good dental care..... We need some left leaning politicians to lead our nation rather than simply showing such favoritism to the ultra-wealthy and big business. We need for our troops to be home where they are safe to build our nation rather than off killing somebody to profit an oil company.
Obama isn't left leaning at all when you look at his record.


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## Danaus29 (Sep 12, 2005)

He's only backing down on his agenda now because his Dem party is no longer in power. When he was trying to get the health care bill passed there were a few key hold-outs that after long trips in Air Force One disembarked from the plane saying what a great plan it was and how lucky we would be to have it. The only reason he's not in jail for threats and intimidation is because he has/had those politicians by the 'nads and they know it. They don't dare publicize what happened in those private meetings.


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## mekasmom (Jan 19, 2010)

Danaus29 said:


> He's only backing down on his agenda now because his Dem party is no longer in power. When he was trying to get the health care bill passed there were a few key hold-outs that after long trips in Air Force One disembarked from the plane saying what a great plan it was and how lucky we would be to have it. The only reason he's not in jail for threats and intimidation is because he has/had those politicians by the 'nads and they know it. They don't dare publicize what happened in those private meetings.


Do you have a link or stories to what happened in private meetings?


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## KnowOneSpecial (Sep 12, 2010)

Cornhusker said:


> You are right, that's not much of a choice.


Cornhusker and Nevada agree on something?! 

I'm RUNNING over to the Survival Forum cause I think the first sign of the Appocalypse has happened.....


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## Cornhusker (Mar 20, 2003)

NoClue said:


> By those standards, I'm a Republican, and I AM NOT a Republican


I can tell :cowboy:


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## Cornhusker (Mar 20, 2003)

KnowOneSpecial said:


> Cornhusker and Nevada agree on something?!
> 
> I'm RUNNING over to the Survival Forum cause I think the first sign of the Appocalypse has happened.....


Either he really likes Romney or I really don't like him........


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## TheMartianChick (May 26, 2009)

KnowOneSpecial said:


> Even though I'm sure that someone is trolling, I'll give it a whirl.
> 
> Has any of his decisions affected you personally? If so how? *Towards the end of the Bush Presidency, my DH's company was starting to have financial problems. Due to some of Obama's infusion of money in the infrastructure, we have been employed and owning our own company all of this time. Now that the Republicans are beefin' about putting money in the infrastructure and making Obama cut some of these programs, we're looking at possibly shutting the company down. *
> 
> ...


This is similar to my situation... Under Bush, hubby's company began to struggle and cut his work week by one day. After 4 months under Obama, hubby was back to full work weeks and more importantly, a full paycheck. 

Since the Republicans have started saying no to everything, I no longer feel that my job is as safe as it once was and I worry about new job creation. You see, while the big companies are shipping jobs overseas and downsizing their workforces, I work to help unemployed and underemployed people to start new businesses and create jobs. The Republicans seem to be enamored of "trickle down economics" which never seems to trickle down far enough.

Another thing that has improved for us is that we are making headway on paying off the mortgages on our rental properties. We are on track to reach our goals, so that we can buy a farm. That happened on President Obama's watch, though I also cannot lay it all at his feet. There are many factors at work.


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## Tricky Grama (Oct 7, 2006)

mekasmom said:


> He may have more left leaning ideals than you like, but he doesn't follow through on them. Look at the health care mess. He should have pushed through universal care for all Americans when Congress had the votes to do it. I would have if I were president. I would have called the rank and file Dems to task to push it through and let the GOP squack and whine with no remorse for doing it. Our nation needs to care for our citizens.
> 
> But, instead, he allowed debates and talks and all sorts of compromises into the equation. He has bowed to cow tow the GOP. And I feel that is disgusting. He is not left enough for my liking. Over and over again, he has made compromises for the right. He really isn't "communist" at all. If anything, he is a right-wing lover. And that is not what he was elected to be at all. People who chose to support him wanted a more left approach than he is showing. He is not left enough for my liking. And he has been too compromising to the right on economic matters.
> When I voted for Obama, I voted for peace, which he didn't bring, economic equality, which hasn't happened, power for the people rather than for big business which hasn't happened, power for the weak rather than the ultra-wealthy..... He has followed through on none of that. He is way too right winged for my liking. I'd like to see some "bail-outs" for the people of the nation rather than simply for big banks and auto makers. I'd like to see the downtrodden and poor have access to decent medical care. I'd like to see children have access to good dental care..... We need some left leaning politicians to lead our nation rather than simply showing such favoritism to the ultra-wealthy and big business. We need for our troops to be home where they are safe to build our nation rather than off killing somebody to profit an oil company.
> Obama isn't left leaning at all when you look at his record.


I hope you know you lose all credibility when you say the community organizer sock puppet cow-towed to the "Rs" ANYTIME in the 1st 2 yrs of his reign. 
That just is FALSE. He HAD to get the UNhealthcare bill passed thru HIS "Ds"!! Did NOT need ONE "R"! It was his own party who would not allow the total socialist bill to be passed.
"Rs" were locked out of meetings, were NOT put on any committees, were told to sit down & shut up-go sit in the back of the bus.
Yeah, he couldn't get all the communist ideas passed b/c not all "Ds" are communists.


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## greg273 (Aug 5, 2003)

Interesting thread... finally something besides 'anti-Obama, all the time.'

What Obama has done... Kept us out of a war with Iran. Is winding down the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan. Is concentrating spending on DOMESTIC issues rather than shipping C-130's full of cash to the middle east. Brought the economy back from the brink of a depression.


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

> Is concentrating spending on DOMESTIC issues rather than shipping C-130's full of cash to the middle east.


LOL

You don't read the news much do you?


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## Danaus29 (Sep 12, 2005)

mekasmom said:


> Do you have a link or stories to what happened in private meetings?


Of course not. Zack Space was one of the key votes that was changed though. before his "tour" he was dead set against the bill. Got off the plane and was a whole hearted supporter.


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## Nevada (Sep 9, 2004)

Bearfootfarm said:


> LOL
> 
> You don't read the news much do you?


Interestingly, no matter what I read in the news there's always a conservative ready to tell me that it's the way the liberal news media presents it, the wrong person was interviewed, or that I am just plain wrong. The same is true for history, and even science.


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## InvalidID (Feb 18, 2011)

Nevada said:


> Interestingly, no matter what I read in the news there's always a conservative ready to tell me that it's the way the liberal news media presents it, the wrong person was interviewed, or that I am just plain wrong. The same is true for history, and even science.


 That's a two way street. Sadly


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## How Do I (Feb 11, 2008)

Danaus29 said:


> Of course not. Zack Space was one of the key votes that was changed though. before his "tour" he was dead set against the bill. Got off the plane and was a whole hearted supporter.


Zack Space's vote went from Yes for House Bill to No for Senate Bill. 



> "Probably the most significant concern is the pay-fors in the bill," said Space. "They are opening the door to taxing employee benefits as income, which is going to create, I donât care how you slice it, a hardship for middle class families that they canât afford to endure right now."
> 
> Space said the version of the bill he supported last year taxed the wealthiest Americans, rather than the middle class, to pay some of the working poor's health care costs.
> 
> "This bill has taken those people out of it," said Space.



link

Zack Space for Congress - Health Care Issue


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## SageLady (Jun 10, 2008)

He saved the auto industry and the positive result is that my DH continues to receive his pension check....
Of course, we all know why he saved GM and Chrysler - for the union support and votes. He also had his car czar try to get GM and Chrysler to dump the retirees pensions in the bankruptcy negotiations. He doesn't care about us old folks whatsoever. Of course, the Repubs would of dumped the retirees pensions too without batting an eye. They REALLY don't care about old folks - they would dump SS and Medicare if they could.
Right now we're just thankful to have the pension income that my DH worked long and hard for over 35 years....


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

> Interestingly, no matter what I read in the news there's always a conservative ready to tell me that it's the way the liberal news media presents it, the wrong person was interviewed, or that I am just plain wrong. The same is true for history, and even science.


Anyone who says we aren't *still spending *in the Middle East has never heard of Egypt, Syria, or Libya


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## NoClue (Jan 22, 2007)

Tricky Grama said:


> I hope you know you lose all credibility when you say the community organizer sock puppet cow-towed to the "Rs" ANYTIME in the 1st 2 yrs of his reign.
> That just is FALSE. He HAD to get the UNhealthcare bill passed thru HIS "Ds"!! Did NOT need ONE "R"! It was his own party who would not allow the total socialist bill to be passed.
> "Rs" were locked out of meetings, were NOT put on any committees, were told to sit down & shut up-go sit in the back of the bus.
> Yeah, he couldn't get all the communist ideas passed b/c not all "Ds" are communists.


You forget the part where passing it was continually stalled so that it could be mangled into pointlessness in his riduculous, unnecessary, pointless, quixotic attempts to get a bi-partisan bill. If he were the communist messiah you accuse him of being, with his full control of the senate, he could have actually socialized medicine, and instituted actual government administered health care. What passed is in no way even remotely socialist.

Obama has failed. We can agree on that. You could build a platform on that. His legislative and policy 'accomplishments' are just plain wrong and destined for failure if they haven't already failed. We agree on that. You could build a platform on that.

With such a platform, you could retake the Presidency, and loot Obama's base to hand him an electoral embarassment not seen since Reagan beat Mondale. Handled properly, you could even defuse the polarization of the country, and actually bring people together. America might actually become a better place, and look like the country we ALL believe it should be.

But that doesn't seem to be what you're interested in. What's more important is that you 'prove' Obama is a socialist, marxist, islamist, fascist, foreign-born, racist, black-liberationist, bi-sexual, illegitimate, over-educated, madrassa-trained, ivy-league, amoral, ideologue, brain-dead proxy for dark, nebulous, powers that want to enslave us, starve us, poison us, kill us, steal any children that escape manadory abortion and sterilization, force us into dhimmi-tude or convert us to islam and/or atheism and/or nature-worshiping pantheism, and anyone who argues that it simply isn't possible must be drinking the special Kool-Aid.

Well, I'm sorry. It's not going to work. I'm too old, too smart, too educated, too well-traveled, too American to believe that the only way to beat Stalin is to support Hitler. I want Obama out of office, but replacing him with only a different flavor of incompetence and wrong-headedness isn't going to do any good.


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## Laura Zone 5 (Jan 13, 2010)

Cornhusker said:


> He was raised by Communists
> His "mentor" was a Communist
> His father was a socialist
> He was anointed by Communists
> How can you say he's not a Communist?


Hisses like a snake
Slithers like a snake
Sheds its skin like a snake
Strikes like a snake.....

Good chances are, it's not a duck!

Birds of a Feather flock together.
Better yet?
Do not be misled: â*Bad* *company* corrupts good character.â


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## Tricky Grama (Oct 7, 2006)

Nevada said:


> Being for sale to the highest bidder wouldn't be a communist trait. That would be a capitalist trait.


BWhahaha! Goes to show what you know.


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## Tricky Grama (Oct 7, 2006)

mekasmom said:


> Do you have a link or stories to what happened in private meetings?


Of course! Are you kidding? With this "most open & transparent administration yet? I'm sure all the meetings are on record.
"This will be the most honest administration"-Nan Pelosi.

BWhahahah! Chicago style.


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## Tricky Grama (Oct 7, 2006)

greg273 said:


> Interesting thread... finally something besides 'anti-Obama, all the time.'
> 
> What Obama has done... Kept us out of a war with Iran. Is winding down the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan. Is concentrating spending on DOMESTIC issues rather than shipping C-130's full of cash to the middle east. Brought the economy back from the brink of a depression.


Riiiight. Like all those 'sit down & talk' sessions w/Iran?? Ya know like he promised b/4 election? BWHahahaha!!
Loads of cash to the ME? Yup-goes on daily.
Brought the economy BACK??? Where do you live? Can you COUNT?? Look at the job #s!
C'mon man!! Make some sense here!


----------



## Tricky Grama (Oct 7, 2006)

SageLady said:


> He saved the auto industry and the positive result is that my DH continues to receive his pension check....
> Of course, we all know why he saved GM and Chrysler - for the union support and votes. He also had his car czar try to get GM and Chrysler to dump the retirees pensions in the bankruptcy negotiations. He doesn't care about us old folks whatsoever. Of course, the Repubs would of dumped the retirees pensions too without batting an eye. They REALLY don't care about old folks - they would dump SS and Medicare if they could.
> Right now we're just thankful to have the pension income that my DH worked long and hard for over 35 years....


Yeah, like the "Rs" did w/the UNhealth care bill-stripped 500 billion from medicare. 
Oh, wait! That was the community organizer sock puppet!
Show us where the "Rs" have dropped SS & medicare.
Drink the koolaid much??


----------



## Tricky Grama (Oct 7, 2006)

Bearfootfarm said:


> Anyone who says we aren't *still spending *in the Middle East has never heard of Egypt, Syria, or Libya


OR the kahzillions sent to HAMAS!


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## Tricky Grama (Oct 7, 2006)

NoClue said:


> You forget the part where passing it was continually stalled so that it could be mangled into pointlessness in his riduculous, unnecessary, pointless, quixotic attempts to get a bi-partisan bill. If he were the communist messiah you accuse him of being, with his full control of the senate, he could have actually socialized medicine, and instituted actual government administered health care. What passed is in no way even remotely socialist.
> 
> Obama has failed. We can agree on that. You could build a platform on that. His legislative and policy 'accomplishments' are just plain wrong and destined for failure if they haven't already failed. We agree on that. You could build a platform on that.
> 
> ...


You talkin' to ME??!!?
Don't think I've been the one who's TRYING to PROVE those things...ain't hard showing how incomptent he is...seems tho that the left IS heck-bent on socialism or they wouldn't be so thrilled w/this guy & his background. 
Who, BTW, has all those 'traits' you mentioned. Makes his incompetence even more distasteful.

BTW, I haven't seen you trying to prove otherwise...you like all the czars? Tell us which ones are biz friendly? Which ones are NOT anti-biz and or non-socialist?


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## ninny (Dec 12, 2005)

You're wound up this morning Tricky, too much coffee?ound:

,


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## Tricky Grama (Oct 7, 2006)

ninny said:


> You're wound up this morning Tricky, too much coffee?ound:
> 
> ,


Yup, that & the fact that all the ones I disagree with post when I'm asleep.


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## linn (Jul 19, 2005)

Tricky Grama said:


> You talkin' to ME??!!?
> Don't think I've been the one who's TRYING to PROVE those things...ain't hard showing how incomptent he is...seems tho that the left IS heck-bent on socialism or they wouldn't be so thrilled w/this guy & his background.
> Who, BTW, has all those 'traits' you mentioned. Makes his incompetence even more distasteful.
> 
> BTW, I haven't seen you trying to prove otherwise...you like all the czars? Tell us which ones are biz friendly? Which ones are NOT anti-biz and or non-socialist?


You go girl. Don't you just hate it when someone starts to pontificate?


----------



## NoClue (Jan 22, 2007)

Tricky Grama said:


> You talkin' to ME??!!?
> Don't think I've been the one who's TRYING to PROVE those things...ain't hard showing how incomptent he is...seems tho that the left IS heck-bent on socialism or they wouldn't be so thrilled w/this guy & his background.
> Who, BTW, has all those 'traits' you mentioned. Makes his incompetence even more distasteful.
> 
> BTW, I haven't seen you trying to prove otherwise...you like all the czars? Tell us which ones are biz friendly? Which ones are NOT anti-biz and or non-socialist?


Yes, I'm talking to you, and all those supporting your cause.

Ok, I'll admit that you're not actually trying to prove anything. You just make snippy comments at everyone who doesn't think the way you do, working on the assumption that you are so obviously correct in your beliefs that proof is not required.

Absolutely nothing Obama has done is socialist or communist (still wrong-headed, but nothing has to be communist or socialist to be wrong). Socialism and communism, in simple terms means that economic and political capital are removed from the hands of private citizens and exercised by the nation-state for what it believes to be or claims is 'the common good'. The important, distinguishing characteristics here, that make communism what it is, that ALL (or nearly all) property and wealth belong to and are controlled by the state, for the direct benefit of the state.

So compare Obama's two major 'accomplishments':

TARP: Money was taken from private citizens and funneled through the state to private corporations, in exchange for non-voting shares. Unions, the closest thing the US has to socialist institutions were forced to concede wages, benefits, jobs, AND forced to buy non-voting shares in the corporations they worked for, while being forbidden to strike.

Health Care Reform: Private citizens are required to buy private insurance from private companies OR the government will sieze their assets in the form of fines and on behalf of those who can't afford to do so, the government will take money from private citizens in the form of taxes and pay it to private companies to insure and treat the poor.

How on earth is that socialism or communism?

What about 'Tsar' implies communism? Monarchism maybe, but communism?

The continuation of which Bush policies implies Communism?


----------



## Tricky Grama (Oct 7, 2006)

You know as well as I that NONE of BO's advisors are pro biz. NONE.

Van Jones is a self-avowed RADICAL communist.
Valerie Whatshername said publically that this admin was soooo glad to get him, been watching him since his activist days in CA-creating STORM as well as one of the 1st signers of the 'truther' movement!

The religious czar/advisor Jim Wawllis is admittedly socialist. Said so publically.

Look up Ron Bloom, Cass Sunstien, Carol Browner (she was a board member of "Socialsits International").

Look up the Appollo Alliance & who heads it. What they have done-like create the HC bill & Stinkulus, for starters.

Look up Ezekial Emmanuel & his belifs.
Andy Stern, most freq visitor in the WH last yr. "Share better the wealth"...

Look up John Holdren & his feeling on population control.

Look up Marc Lloyd & his radical ideas on how to control freedom of the press.

Then come tell us there's no communist/socialist tendendies in this WH.


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## Tabitha (Apr 10, 2006)

I am just curious why so many defend and cherish him. 

Reply
Because he is black and they are blooming racists. 

to elaborate. I have talked to two white Obama admireres recently. One a white woman. I pointed out that he has not presented a birthcertificate. She said she does not care, it is not important. In other words truth and honesty are not important. adhering to the constitution is not important. I talked to a white male yesterday and basically the same. The important thing is to have a black in the white house. Nothing else counts.

what has changed for us? We have to pay 26% more for our health insurance.


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## Evons hubby (Oct 3, 2005)

mekasmom said:


> When I voted for Obama, I voted for peace, which he didn't bring, economic equality, which hasn't happened, power for the people rather than for big business which hasn't happened, power for the weak rather than the ultra-wealthy.....


Well then, from the sound of this you should be finding, joining up, and supporting your local tea party and their chosen candidates! These are the very things we are all about. 

We want peace.. which is only obtainable in todays world with a strong miltary. (not necessarily to be used, (or should I say misused) but to have on hand if/when needed) We want economic equality.. via observation of our Constitution.. which is supposed to ensure every citizen the right to be all they can be, and again, observing the Constitution to return the power back to the states, and the people and get it OUT of the hands of the federal government and their uber wealthy cronies.


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## NoClue (Jan 22, 2007)

Tricky Grama said:


> You know as well as I that NONE of BO's advisors are pro biz. NONE.
> 
> Van Jones is a self-avosed RADICAL communist.
> Valerie Whatshername said publically that this admin was soooo glad to get him, been watching him since his activist days in CA-creating STORM as well as one of the 1st signers of the 'truther' movement!
> ...


That's not what I said. I said that nothing he's actually done - which isn't very much, Obama has failed on that count too - is actually socialist or communist. When what people SAY is different from what they actually DO, what they DO is more important.

You're also ignoring the fact that his actual finance and economic teams have exactly the same pedigrees and resumees of every president of the past 40 years (since Ronald Reagan), regardless of party. Geithner is no more a communist that Paulsen. Bernanke is just as much a Keynesian as Greenspan was.

The only 'businesses' that any administration has cared about in 40-odd years are large corporations, and Obama's policy has favored them just as much as Bush or Reagans. Look at their earnings statements and balance sheets, before you start spewing someone else's rhetoric about how anti-business this administration is: earnings and profits are up across the board the past two years; companies are sitting on larger cash reserves than any time in history; CEO salaries are outpacing their company averages by several hundred times - their taxes are the same; labor unions have been castrated; profits are up; productivity is up, wages and salaries for non-CEO's are down - and you still believe Obama is anti-business.

Nice dodge too: avoiding answering any of my questions.... Does the fact that most of my friends, and all of my mentors were conservatives make me one?


----------



## linn (Jul 19, 2005)

I would consider Obama Care as socialized medicine.

"
Barack Obama was endorsed by an organization known as the Chicago "New Party". The 'New Party' was a political party established by the Democratic Socialists of America (the DSA) to push forth the socialist principles of the DSA by focusing on winnable elections at a local level and spreading the Socialist movement upwards. The admittedly Socialist Organization experienced a moderate rise in numbers between 1995 and 1999."

Read more: http://www.newsbusters.org/blogs/p-...-membership-socialist-new-party#ixzz1Udqr7o2G


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## NoClue (Jan 22, 2007)

linn said:


> I would consider Obama Care as socialized medicine.


What kind of socialism is it that requires the patient to write a check to a corporation, and to pay taxes, which pass through the government to end up being paid out to one or more corporations?


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## linn (Jul 19, 2005)

Is is still socialize medicined. It is run through government agencies, no freedom of choice, just the government's own HMOs. That is socialized medicine whether you want to admit it or not.

"A reasonable definition of socialized medicine is possible. Socialized medicine exists to the extent that government controls medical resources and socializes the costs. Reasonable people can disagree over whether Obama&#8217;s health plan would be good or bad. But to suggest that it is not a step toward socialized medicine is absurd."

http://www.cato.org/pub_display.php?pub_id=9679


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## Nevada (Sep 9, 2004)

linn said:


> Is is still socialize medicined. It is run through government agencies, no freedom of choice, just the government's own HMOs. That is socialized medicine whether you want to admit it or not.
> http://www.cato.org/pub_display.php?pub_id=9679


The government owns HMOs?


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## NoClue (Jan 22, 2007)

linn said:


> Is is still socialize medicined. It is run through government agencies, no freedom of choice, just the government's own HMOs. That is socialized medicine whether you want to admit it or not.
> 
> "A reasonable definition of socialized medicine is possible. Socialized medicine exists to the extent that government controls medical resources and socializes the costs. Reasonable people can disagree over whether Obama&#8217;s health plan would be good or bad. But to suggest that it is not a step toward socialized medicine is absurd."
> 
> http://www.cato.org/pub_display.php?pub_id=9679


Ok... I see where this is going... socialism means whatever you want it to mean, thus Obamacare is socialized medicine....


of course, this definition can't be universally applied - if it it could, that would mean we already have socialized car insurance (the government mandates car insurance, and it defines the minimum coverage requirements), and it penalizes those who drive without purchasing it.


I'm not defnding Obamacare. I think it's a travesty. That doesn't make it socialism - things can be bad, wrong, evil, and unamerican without being socialism.


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## linn (Jul 19, 2005)

Excuse me, now that I have proven to you that Obama care is essentially socialized medicine and given evidence that Obama supports socialist organizations, you have to branch off into something else. Obama is for a socialist society and he has associations with domestic terrorists and a hate-preaching racist. 
It seems to me that you had no argument about socialized medicine being part of the soicalist movement until I gave you a credible source stating that Obama Care was soicalized medicine. Now you seem to want to change the definition of soicialism to skirt the issue. Socialist seek to redistribute the wealth and Obama and the liberals sure seem bent on doing that.

http://www.aim.org/aim-column/obamas-international-socialist-connections/


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## NoClue (Jan 22, 2007)

linn said:


> Excuse me, now that I have proved to you that Obama care is essentially socialized medicine and given evidence that Obama supports and socialist organization, you have to branch off into something else. Obama is for a socialist society and he has associations with domestic terrorists and a hate-preaching racist.


You didn't prove anything of the kind (or anything at all, for that matter) - you quoted from a single source, that isn't authoritative and only marginally supports your claim - and you still haven't answered the basic question:

Since when does socialism aim at funneling more money to corporations rather than the government itself?


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## linn (Jul 19, 2005)

Here is another quote from another source. I can just keeping pitching. Obama and company are sure bent on gouging the rich to give to the poor.

"With Socialism there is not rich or poor. Everyone is equal, taxes are high because the government runs your health care."

http://www.wisegeek.com/what-is-socialism.htm


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## NoClue (Jan 22, 2007)

linn said:


> Here is another quote from another source. I can just keeping pitching. Obama and company are sure bent on gouging the rich to give to the poor.
> 
> "With Socialism there is not rich or poor. Everyone is equal, taxes are high because the government runs your health care."
> 
> http://www.wisegeek.com/what-is-socialism.htm


You can keep pitching, but you're still wrong.

What Obamacare does is force Americans to turn control of their healthcare over to a non-governmental organization - i.e. a corporation who is going to make a profit the controllers of which are going to be even more rich than they already are.

THAT IS NOT SOCIALISM

You can't prove anything by providing quotes that while they may share your opinion, do not agree with the basic facts:



> soÂ·cialÂ·ism&#8194; &#8194;/&#712;so&#650;&#643;&#601;&#716;l&#618;z&#601;m/ Show Spelled
> [soh-shuh-liz-uhm] Show IPA
> 
> ânoun
> ...


but yields very capitalistic profits to private individuals who own and control the means of production.

You could argue that Obamacare is totalitarian, or authoritarian, plutocratic, or corporatist; even that it smacks of fascism, and I would argue on your side. Instead you insist that it's socialism, when it very obviously isn't.


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## linn (Jul 19, 2005)

You haven't proven anything either, just offered your opinion. Here are a couple of more quotes from a socialist webstie. I guess you can put a spin on that also
"Socialist Action argues that the problems of exploitation and oppression in the world today can ultimately be solved by first replacing the capitalist system with a socialist system. The chief means of production should be socialized, that is, taken out of the private hands of the capitalists and put under public ownership, that is, government ownership." (Hmmm, sounds something like a National Healthcare System.)
"Money currently spent on the military could be spent instead on cleaning up the country's air and waterways and developing environmentally safe technology."
"A socialist government of the United States would end this country's oppression of Third World nations because it would not be defending corporate profit." (Sounds like the liberal rantings during the presidential debates.)

Sounds like what this administration is moving toward.

http://www.socialistaction.org/socialism.htm


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## NoClue (Jan 22, 2007)

linn said:


> You haven't proven anything either, just offered your opinion.



I've already given the definition of socialism several times.

Obamacare requires citizens TO BUY health insurance from a non-governmental entity and subsidizes that purchase for those with insufficient income AND fines those who refuse to purchase insurance.

With me so far?

The definition of Obamacare is not compliant with the definition of socialism.

Why? 

Because the insurance is purchased from someone other than the government: the government doesn't control the means of production or the means of distribution - it's only mandating that a transfer of wealth from citizens to insurance providers (and presumably to health care providers at some point)

With me so far?

A does not equal B

Insurance providers and health care providers are still free to make a profit, and to invest the proceeds as they see fit as any other business interest does.


QED
Obamacare is not socialism

Got it?


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## linn (Jul 19, 2005)

I have got that this is your opinion. That doesn't make your right. "A reasonable definition of socialized medicine is possible. Socialized medicine exists to the extent that government controls medical resources and socializes the costs. Reasonable people can disagree over whether Obama&#8217;s health plan would be good or bad. *But to suggest that it is not a step toward socialized medicine is absurd*."
Got that?????? But I really doubt, as all you want to do is expound.

http://www.cato.org/pub_display.php?pub_id=9679


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## Cornhusker (Mar 20, 2003)

Tricky Grama said:


> Yup, that & the fact that all the ones I disagree with post when I'm asleep.


They probably sit up all night copying our posts and emailing them to DHS


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## Cornhusker (Mar 20, 2003)

NoClue said:


> I've already given the definition of socialism several times.
> 
> Obamacare requires citizens TO BUY health insurance from a non-governmental entity and subsidizes that purchase for those with insufficient income AND fines those who refuse to purchase insurance.
> 
> ...


Obama requires us to but insurance from the insurance companies who paid him to pass Obamacare.
What happened to the trillion or so he got for this mess?


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## NoClue (Jan 22, 2007)

linn said:


> You haven't proven anything either, just offered your opinion. Here are a couple of more quotes from a socialist webstie. I guess you can put a spin on that also
> "Socialist Action argues that the problems of exploitation and oppression in the world today can ultimately be solved by first replacing the capitalist system with a socialist system. The chief means of production should be socialized, that is, taken out of the private hands of the capitalists and put under public ownership, that is, government ownership." (Hmmm, sounds something like a National Healthcare System.)
> "Money currently spent on the military could be spent instead on cleaning up the country's air and waterways and developing environmentally safe technology."
> "A socialist government of the United States would end this country's oppression of Third World nations because it would not be defending corporate profit." (Sounds like the liberal rantings during the presidential debates.)
> ...


Except for one important fact: Capitalism is thriving under Obama - earnings continue to increase; producitivity is increasing, etc. and he is making no attempt to do anything other than increase it - to the point of requiring citizens to patronize certain industries under penalty of law.


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## NoClue (Jan 22, 2007)

linn said:


> I have got that this is your opinion. That doesn't make your right. "A reasonable definition of socialized medicine is possible. Socialized medicine exists to the extent that government controls medical resources and socializes the costs. Reasonable people can disagree over whether Obamaâs health plan would be good or bad. *But to suggest that it is not a step toward socialized medicine is absurd*."
> Got that?????? But I really doubt, as all you want to do is expound.
> 
> http://www.cato.org/pub_display.php?pub_id=9679


but your bolded statement isn't proof of anything, and doesn't even present itself as a fact.

So yes, I get that the source of your quote is expressing his or her opinion.

In order for you to disprove my argument, you have to show that my definition of socialism is incorrect, or that my presentation of Obamacare is flawed. You haven't done either, just produce isolated quotes of others who feel that obamacare is socialism.

Stop taking this personally. I would present the same argument to the Cato institute - the facts about what socialism is and what obamacare is simply don't support their argument, and in fact, the gist of their argument is that it isn't what obamacare *is* that makes it socialist, but what they believe it will become. Or, in other words - Obamacare could lead to socialized medicine, therefore, it IS socialized medicine. That's just not sound logic. It could also lead to a violent backlash and the ultimate overthrow of the government, in which case one might argue that Obamacare is anarchism (which, of course, would be ludicrous).


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## NoClue (Jan 22, 2007)

Cornhusker said:


> Obama requires us to but insurance from the insurance companies who paid him to pass Obamacare.
> What happened to the trillion or so he got for this mess?


I have no idea.

Impeach him and find out. I'll back you 100%.


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## linn (Jul 19, 2005)

I don't have to disprove anything. You disprove my quotes from the socialist website. I am sure you will come up with some rigmarole, but that doesn't prove anything except that you are longer winded and more fond of reading your own writing.
No, in fact I have already disproven your statement, right from the mouth of socialism:
""Socialist Action argues that the problems of exploitation and oppression in the world today can ultimately be solved by first replacing the capitalist system with a socialist system. The chief means of production should be socialized, that is, taken out of the private hands of the capitalists and put under public ownership, that is, government ownership." 


http://www.socialistaction.org/socialism.htm


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## NoClue (Jan 22, 2007)

linn said:


> I don't have to disprove anything. You disprove my quotes from the socialist website. I am sure you will come up with some rigmarole, but that doesn't prove anything except that you are longer winded and more fond of reading your own writing.
> No, in fact I have already disproven it right from the mouth of socialism:
> ""Socialist Action argues that the problems of exploitation and oppression in the world today can ultimately be solved by first replacing the capitalist system with a socialist system. The chief means of production should be socialized, that is, taken out of the private hands of the capitalists and put under public ownership, that is, government ownership."
> 
> ...


I agree that this is a very socialist agenda - but this is not at all what Obama is doing - in fact, he's doing just the opposite and transferring public assets into private hands - the exact opposite of what an actual socialist would be doing.

I've gotten long winded because no matter how explicitly I lay out my case for you, the only counter you seem able to provide is one that in no way counters my argument or supports yours.


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## Nevada (Sep 9, 2004)

linn said:


> Obama and company are sure bent on gouging the rich to give to the poor.http://www.wisegeek.com/what-is-socialism.htm


I suppose that all insurance is taking from the fortunate and giving to the unfortunate. After all, if you are unfortunate enough to have your house burn down your insurance company will give you money collected from people who were fortunate enough to not have their houses burn down. Isn't that redistribution of wealth, socialism, and perhaps even communism?


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## linn (Jul 19, 2005)

That is a little different. I you have insurance on your house, you have paid for that through the nose. Not the same thing at all and you know it.


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## linn (Jul 19, 2005)

NoClue said:


> I agree that this is a very socialist agenda - but this is not at all what Obama is doing - in fact, he's doing just the opposite and transferring public assets into private hands - the exact opposite of what an actual socialist would be doing.
> 
> I've gotten long winded because no matter how explicitly I lay out my case for you, the only counter you seem able to provide is one that in no way counters my argument or supports yours.


Exactly how is Obama transferring public assets into private hands. It seems to me that he and the liberals are bent on taking our private assets and transferring it into government hands.:heh: I disagree with you statement, but we are not going to agree and I fear some of my comments could have been nicer, so I am going to quit before I embarrass myself by becoming really petty.LOL


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## Nevada (Sep 9, 2004)

linn said:


> That is a little different. I you have insurance on your house, you have paid for that through the nose. Not the same thing at all and you know it.


Compared to the cost of replacing your house, you only contributed a token amount.

If fire insurance on your $150K home is $50/month, so you contribute $600/year. Say you own a home for 10 years and pay $6,000 on fire insurance premiums over that time, then your house burns down. The fortunate people pay $144,000 while you only paid $6,000. That's not "paying through the nose", that's contributing only a small part while the fortunate people paid the rest.

Why should the fortunate people have to contribute to your bad luck? That certainly sounds like redistribution of wealth to me.


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## Nevada (Sep 9, 2004)

linn said:


> Exactly how is Obama transferring public assets into private hands. It seems to me that he and the liberals are bent on taking our private assets and transferring it into government hands.


Government spending winds up in the hands of individuals. Government spending creates jobs, and cutting government spending kills jobs.


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## linn (Jul 19, 2005)

Yes, much of the government spending ends up in the hands of individuals who never did a day's work in their life. Government spending has gotten us in the mess we are in now.


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## Nevada (Sep 9, 2004)

linn said:


> Yes, much of the government spending ends up in the hands of individuals who never did a day's work in their life. Government spending has gotten us in the mess we are in now.


Conservatives have always felt that way, even when the proposed programs are for very good causes. When I was in firefighter training we were presented with a history of organized firefighting. I found it interesting how Ben Franklin faced as much conservative opposition to his fire department idea as he did. The prevailing idea was that people who were careful with fire should not have to pay for the carelessness of others. The town hall exchange went something like this.

*Conservative:* Why should I be taxed to help some idiot who let his house catch on fire?
*Ben:* Not everyone who has a fire is an idiot. Remember that last year when old Jim Whatshisname's barn burned down?
*Conservative:* Yes, but old Jim Whatshisname is an idiot.
*Ben: *Do you know him?*
Conservative:* No, but anyone who would let his barn catch on fire has to be an idiot.

And so it goes with conservatives -- for 200 years. And they still feel that way today about issues just as critical; universal health care for example.


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## NoClue (Jan 22, 2007)

linn said:


> Exactly how is Obama transferring public assets into private hands. It seems to me that he and the liberals are bent on taking our private assets and transferring it into government hands.:heh: I disagree with you statement, but we are not going to agree and I fear some of my comments could have been nicer, so I am going to quit before I embarrass myself by becoming really petty.LOL


Yes, some of it is paid out in the form of entitlements. The vast majority of it is paid out in the form of government contracts. Remember, the government doesn't actually produce anything - this means that everything the government consumes, distributes, gives away, it bought from someone (a private company) and paid for with money it took from someone else (you and me).

Who do you think lobbyists are? Why do you think they spend so much time wining and dining lawmakers? The answer is money! more money than you and I can really imagine (and I have a very active imagination), and the money is flowing both ways - campaigns are financed with it and contracts are awarded accordingly.


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## greg273 (Aug 5, 2003)

Tricky Grama said:


> Riiiight. Like all those 'sit down & talk' sessions w/Iran?? Ya know like he promised b/4 election? BWHahahaha!!
> Loads of cash to the ME? Yup-goes on daily.
> Brought the economy BACK??? Where do you live? Can you COUNT?? Look at the job #s!
> C'mon man!! Make some sense here!


 I'm making plenty of sense, you are just so warped by your hatred of Obama you cant tell whats true and whats not anymore! LOL. Dont blame me for raining on your constant anti-Obama tirades. And you know darn well where I live, you can READ cant you??
The economy is in FAR better shape than when he took over. FACT.
And you know I was talking LITERALLY about planeloads of CASH to the middle east. That was the Bush plan, flood the area with weapons and greenbacks and see what happens. Well, we're still there. But we are leaving, slowly. I know we'll never leave fully, because obviously that was not part of the neo-con plan, but things are winding down. We didnt get our empire, but we got to pay for one. At least the defense industry was happy.
You guys just keep on complaining, I never see any SOLUTIONS being offered up, just critisisms... your solution seems to be put the GOP back in power, and sorry, that didnt work out so well when the Chimp in Chief W got his hands on the steering wheel.


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## Win07_351 (Dec 7, 2008)

The only real solution is less spending and they're not going to do that. So in the end the problem never gets solved regardless of who's at the helm.


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

> And you know I was talking LITERALLY about *planeloads of CASH *to the middle east.


Yes, we realize you were referring to the IRAQI cash that was seized, then RETURNED to them.

You were probably hoping we didn't know those details

It was always *their* money

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2007/feb/08/usa.iraq1



> The memorandum details the casual manner in which the US-led Coalition Provisional Authority disbursed the *money, which came from Iraqi oil sales, surplus funds from the UN oil-for-food programme and seized Iraqi assets*.





> However, evidence before the committee suggests that senior American officials were unconcerned about the situation because the billions were not US taxpayers' money


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## tgmr05 (Aug 27, 2007)

greg273 said:


> I'm making plenty of sense, you are just so warped by your hatred of Obama you cant tell whats true and whats not anymore! LOL. Dont blame me for raining on your constant anti-Obama tirades. And you know darn well where I live, you can READ cant you??
> The economy is in FAR better shape than when he took over. FACT.
> And you know I was talking LITERALLY about planeloads of CASH to the middle east. That was the Bush plan, flood the area with weapons and greenbacks and see what happens. Well, we're still there. But we are leaving, slowly. I know we'll never leave fully, because obviously that was not part of the neo-con plan, but things are winding down. We didnt get our empire, but we got to pay for one. At least the defense industry was happy.
> You guys just keep on complaining, I never see any SOLUTIONS being offered up, just critisisms... your solution seems to be put the GOP back in power, and sorry, that didnt work out so well when the Chimp in Chief W got his hands on the steering wheel.


The economy is in far better shape than when he took over. FACT. Are you kidding???? That one statement pretty much proves you are out of touch with reality and living in leftist propaganda induced bubble fantasy land.

I nearly had milk snort out my nose when I read it. You should try to win the contest for best joke......


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## Tricky Grama (Oct 7, 2006)

greg273 said:


> I'm making plenty of sense, you are just so warped by your hatred of Obama you cant tell whats true and whats not anymore! LOL. Dont blame me for raining on your constant anti-Obama tirades. And you know darn well where I live, you can READ cant you??
> The economy is in FAR better shape than when he took over. FACT.
> And you know I was talking LITERALLY about planeloads of CASH to the middle east. That was the Bush plan, flood the area with weapons and greenbacks and see what happens. Well, we're still there. But we are leaving, slowly. I know we'll never leave fully, because obviously that was not part of the neo-con plan, but things are winding down. We didnt get our empire, but we got to pay for one. At least the defense industry was happy.
> You guys just keep on complaining, I never see any SOLUTIONS being offered up, just critisisms... your solution seems to be put the GOP back in power, and sorry, that didnt work out so well when the Chimp in Chief W got his hands on the steering wheel.


Well, post the job #s then! Show the GROWTH!! Its far worse than when the big ZERO took over.
PS-nowhere have I ever said I hate Obama. I hate the policies he's put into place & the ones he still wants to implement. We conservatives have posted our ideas/plans enuf times on this forum. You continue your mantra tho w/eyes wide shut. 
I'm quite certain the man is a good husband & father.


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## NoClue (Jan 22, 2007)

Tricky Grama said:


> Well, post the job #s then! Show the GROWTH!! Its far worse than when the big ZERO took over.
> PS-nowhere have I ever said I hate Obama. I hate the policies he's put into place & the ones he still wants to implement. We conservatives have posted our ideas/plans enuf times on this forum. You continue your mantra tho w/eyes wide shut.
> I'm quite certain the man is a good husband & father.


When Obama took office, it looked like the economy was plummeting to a nearly instantaneous demise. Unemployment looked like it was going to go through the roof.

One can argue about whether or not the economy is recovering or not, but the one thing it isn't doing is heading precipitously downward.

So what did Obama do that's caused our current crisis?

1. He adopted the bailout plan put forward by Hank Paulsen - Secretary of the Treasury -UNDER BUSH.

It was a Republican plan that nobody liked. BUT if McCain had won the election, do you honestly believe that he wouldn't also have put forward the same Republican plan? This was the best possible thing that could have happened to Republicans - they got to push one of their programs through and then blame the failure on somebody else.

2. He extended the Bush era tax cuts. At the time, he had a majority in the house; he had a fillibusterproof majority in the Senate. He could have asked for and gotten any kind of tax increase he wanted. Instead, he continued exactly as Bush had.

3. He bailed out two of the three automakers, by giving them cash in exchange for non-voting, non-dividend paying shares of stock, and forced labor unions to make concessions, and took away their right to strike under the new, revised contract he crammed down their throat.

4. He implemented Cash for Clunkers, which amounted to a second gift-wrap package of cash for auto-makers.

5. He pushed for and signed the Health Care Reform Act, which forces at least 40 million americans who previously were not to become customers of Insurance companies.

6. Besides not ending the two Republican wars, he's started at least one, and maybe as many as three other wars at the cost of billions. When we say that a war cost billions, what are we actually saying? Besides the salaries of those doing the training, which amounts to millions at most, we're saying that the Government is *buying* a lot of equipment and materials and services from Defense Contractors - those corporations are not selling that stuff to the government at a loss (read their financial reports if you don't believe me). Subsidizing the Defense Industry is a time-honored Republican past time.


In short, while his rhetoric is certainly different, nothing Obama has done is the least bit anti-Republican. Obama's biggest failure is that he has failed to _CHANGE_ anything except the rhetoric. He's failed to be a leader, because he's simply followed Republicans. He's failed to be a liberal in anything except running his mouth.


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## greg273 (Aug 5, 2003)

NoClue said:


> When Obama took office, it looked like the economy was plummeting to a nearly instantaneous demise. Unemployment looked like it was going to go through the roof.
> 
> One can argue about whether or not the economy is recovering or not, but the one thing it isn't doing is heading precipitously downward.
> 
> ...


 Agreed, 100%. Your post pretty well sums it up.


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## greg273 (Aug 5, 2003)

tgmr05 said:


> The economy is in far better shape than when he took over. FACT. Are you kidding???? That one statement pretty much proves you are out of touch with reality and living in leftist propaganda induced bubble fantasy land.
> 
> I nearly had milk snort out my nose when I read it. You should try to win the contest for best joke......


 Wow, use much rhetoric? 'left wing fantasy land'?? Sorry, but I live in the REAL world... and I can plainly see the economy is better than 08-09. Granted, that is not saying much, but at least my industry, residential construction, is showing some signs of life after being dead in the water for 18 months beginning in 08. Now that is regional,I will admit. Things as a whole arent great, but what did you expect after the housing bust and subprime mess?


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## Evons hubby (Oct 3, 2005)

NoClue said:


> Yes, some of it is paid out in the form of entitlements. The vast majority of it is paid out in the form of government contracts. Remember, the government doesn't actually produce anything - this means that everything the government consumes, distributes, gives away, it bought from someone (a private company) and paid for with money it took from someone else (you and me).
> 
> Who do you think lobbyists are? Why do you think they spend so much time wining and dining lawmakers? The answer is money! more money than you and I can really imagine (and I have a very active imagination), and the money is flowing both ways - campaigns are financed with it and contracts are awarded accordingly.


I agree with you inasmuch as the government doesnt produce anything... well at least nothing good. I do think you are mistaken though on the amount of money going to contractors and the money going to entitlements. Roughly 2/3s of our federal tax dollars go to entitlements in one form or another... the remaining third goes out to government employees in wages and benefits... along with those government contracts.


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## greg273 (Aug 5, 2003)

Tricky Grama said:


> Well, post the job #s then! Show the GROWTH!! Its far worse than when the big ZERO took over.
> PS-nowhere have I ever said I hate Obama. I hate the policies he's put into place & the ones he still wants to implement. We conservatives have posted our ideas/plans enuf times on this forum. You continue your mantra tho w/eyes wide shut.
> I'm quite certain the man is a good husband & father.


 Never had a 'mantra'... not sure what your getting at there, but here are the unemployment numbers since 2001...










http://data.bls.gov/timeseries/LNS14000000

Obama inherited a mess in late 08...and the numbers show under his presidency, the downward spiral has been arrested, and we are beginning to SLOWLY make progress toward a reasonably healthy economy. This is not partisan, this is what is actually occurring. 
And yes, things did get worse when Obama took over. But the numbers clearly show the drastic upward spike in unemployment occurred in the last year of W, with no help from Obama. Thank Goldman Sachs, AIG, and the rest of the speculators and congressional enablers that sheared the lambs one last time before the GOP exited the White House.... the Final Scam that nearly took down the economy.


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## Tricky Grama (Oct 7, 2006)

greg273 said:


> Wow, use much rhetoric? 'left wing fantasy land'?? Sorry, but I live in the REAL world... and I can plainly see the economy is better than 08-09. Granted, that is not saying much, but at least my industry, residential construction, is showing some signs of life after being dead in the water for 18 months beginning in 08. Now that is regional,I will admit. Things as a whole arent great, but what did you expect after the housing bust and subprime mess?


Do you remember what the unemployment rate was when the big ZERO took office? Give ya a hint: He said "hurryhurryhurry pass this stimkulus bill so the rate WILL NOT GO ABOVE 8!!"
BWhahaha!

Economy is "plainly better"? Not according to any news source.

Other 'promises':

End the recession & bring back a healthy booming economy. 
Yeah. Complete failure. Look at housing. Jobs.

2. End the war in Iraq w/o leaving them in dire straits. 
Pretty much still a disaster.

3. "Reset" relations w/Russia.
Bwhahaha! Even the 'reset' button was bogus.

4. Go over the federal budget 'line by line' removing pork.
Another BWhahaha! Plus-where's the budget for the last 3 yrs?

5. Bring peace to the ME.
Wow, 'course evveryone knew this wouldn't happen. Just gripes me that one POTUS can say "no new taxes" & lose the office but this one can get by w/anything.

6. Create a new peaceful productive relationship w/Iran.
Yeah. That happened, huh.

7. Close GITMO. 
Sure its congress' fault for passing a law to withold funds so he can't. HIS "D" congress. What a leader.

8. Immigration reform by the end of his 1st year.
Well, maybe this IS reform? We're so poor that the illegals are going home.

9. Health Care.
BWhahaha! 1 1/2 yrs wasted on a horrendous usless illegal piece of carp.


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## Evons hubby (Oct 3, 2005)

Tricky Grama said:


> 7. Close GITMO.
> Sure its congress' fault for passing a law to withold funds so he can't.


How much funding is required to turn the lights and water off, and bring our people home... Gitmo closed!


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## greg273 (Aug 5, 2003)

Bearfootfarm said:


> Yes, we realize you were referring to the IRAQI cash that was seized, then RETURNED to them.
> 
> You were probably hoping we didn't know those details
> 
> ...


 Hah... 'Returned' to them, via the hands of the CPA, which, you know, took a little off the top...
The other *trillion* in US taxpayer money spent on Iraq could have went to better uses, in my opinion. Such as US infrastructure, something lasting and domestic. Not a boon for weapon dealers.


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## farmergirl (Aug 2, 2005)

HTG_zoo said:


> My fiancee is probably going to die because of Obamacare. He needs a heart valve replacement, but since we live with the person we rent from, and she makes a decent living, he doesn't qualify for medicaid. He's not yet disabled enough to qualify for disability (and it will be a 3-4 year fight to get it when he is.) Before Obamacare, we were on the list to get him on the Healthy Indiana Plan, which is a program that would have allowed us to purchase insurance for him at $250 a month. The new federal rules for state medicaid funding have led our state to deny this coverage to adults without kids. The cheapest insurance quote we have found, is more then he makes each month. So he's getting by with cheap meds from the low cost clinic, who are pushing him to see the cardiologist that already charged us $350 for nothing.
> 
> So due to his impending massive medical bills and our state's joint property laws, we're not planning on getting married any time soon.
> 
> Also, my doctor left the country rather then deal with the new rules, which put me in a bind, it's hard to find a doctor who will take a chronic pain patient, let alone one with neurological problems and kidney disease.


Move to Oregon. Seriously. The Oregon Health Plan is available to all Oregon residents and premiums are based on a sliding, income-related scale.

Another thought, if both or one of you is still able to work, take a job for a big company that offers group health insurance with no consideration for "pre-existing conditions".

You have my sympathy. The healthcare system in this country needs a serious overhaul.


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## Evons hubby (Oct 3, 2005)

greg273 said:


> Hah... 'Returned' to them, via the hands of the CPA, which, you know, took a little off the top...
> The other *trillion* in US taxpayer money spent on Iraq could have went to better uses, in my opinion. Such as US infrastructure, something lasting and domestic. Not a boon for weapon dealers.


Yes, our patent office could prolly use a revamp, along with our post roads... Those are only a couple of the Constitutionally authorized areas that the federal government is ALLOWED BY LAW to spend our money on as far as "infrastructure" is concerned.


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## Cornhusker (Mar 20, 2003)

All I'm reading is excuses.
Obama sold guns to Mexican drug lords.
He left holes in the border
He did it to try to take away our gun rights.
Anybody who can't see that is being foolish.


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## manfred (Dec 21, 2005)

We really dont know what would have happened if he had not been there. Maybe total collapse? I think he is a great man.


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## Evons hubby (Oct 3, 2005)

manfred said:


> We really dont know what would have happened if he had not been there. Maybe total collapse? I think he is a great man.


I seldom think of men who are contributers to the problem as being "great" men. But thats just me.


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## Roadking (Oct 8, 2009)

greg273 said:


> The economy is in FAR better shape than when he took over.* FACT*.



I think you mean *FANTASY*. Love to see your proof of this fact. Doubt it tho.
Matt


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## Cornhusker (Mar 20, 2003)

manfred said:


> We really dont know what would have happened if he had not been there. Maybe total collapse? I think he is a great man.


That's interesting.
Just out of curiosity, what, (in your opinion) makes Obama great?


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## Nevada (Sep 9, 2004)

Cornhusker said:


> That's interesting.
> Just out of curiosity, what, (in your opinion) makes Obama great?


Regardless of how Obama's presidency turns out, his place in history is secure. He'll have a legacy equal to that of Abraham Lincoln. Expect to see his face on some kind of currency during your lifetime.


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## Roadking (Oct 8, 2009)

Nevada said:


> Regardless of how Obama's presidency turns out, his place in history is secure. He'll have a legacy equal to that of Abraham Lincoln. Expect to see his face on some kind of currency during your lifetime.


Yup, the Three dollar bill....
Matt


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## TedH71 (Jan 19, 2003)

He got my training paid so I could continue my education. He had the money to pay the vocational rehab counselor an incentive to let the company give me a 2 week period temp job to see if I was a good fit...then hired me. I'm working now.


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## Tricky Grama (Oct 7, 2006)

TedH71 said:


> He got my training paid so I could continue my education. He had the money to pay the vocational rehab counselor an incentive to let the company give me a 2 week period temp job to see if I was a good fit...then hired me. I'm working now.


Good for you, glad something helped. Fact is, one case does not make our economy any better.


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## michiganfarmer (Oct 15, 2005)

about the same as most. More restrictions, more spending, more waste. Between his welfare, bush's war mongering, and both of their big business bailouts, I odnt know how we are ever going to pay for it all


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## Evons hubby (Oct 3, 2005)

Nevada said:


> Regardless of how Obama's presidency turns out, his place in history is secure. He'll have a legacy equal to that of Abraham Lincoln. Expect to see his face on some kind of currency during your lifetime.


I agree, I already put him in the same league as dishonest Abe... ok not quite as bad as Abe.. but hes getting there.


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## Evons hubby (Oct 3, 2005)

Roadking said:


> Yup, the Three dollar bill....
> Matt


Thats possible too, but I was thinking prolly the trillion dollar bill.... which will be required to buy a cuppa coffee by the time the runaway inflation runs its course. Something about printing money with nothing to back it up has that affect. Zimbabwe is a prime example.


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## EasyDay (Aug 28, 2004)

manfred said:


> We really dont know what would have happened if he had not been there. Maybe total collapse? I think he is a great man.


To think he's great, you must believe that he's done some great things, right? Would you mind listing them for us? Apparently, we need to be enlightened.

Ooops, I overlooked where CH already asked you that.

We're still waiting!

<chirp, chirp> (the sound of crickets)


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## J.T.M. (Mar 2, 2008)

I would love to hear an update from this person..
[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P36x8rTb3jI&feature=player_embedded[/ame]


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## greg273 (Aug 5, 2003)

Tricky Grama said:


> Do you remember what the unemployment rate was when the big ZERO took office? Give ya a hint: He said "hurryhurryhurry pass this stimkulus bill so the rate WILL NOT GO ABOVE 8!!"
> BWhahaha!
> 
> Economy is "plainly better"? Not according to any news source.
> ...


 Ah tricky you obviously didnt even look at the unemployment numbers I posted.









This graph pretty much sums up the economic situation we faced BEFORE Obama took office, and it also clearly shows unemployment is on the decline. 
And you are complaining because a politician didnt keep campaign promises??? LOL Now who is living in 'fantasy land'? 
I can guarantee you 'housing' and 'jobs' arent a 'complete disaster' as you claim. I am IN the housing industry, I see firsthand what is occurring. I can assure you things have IMPROVED since Obama took over. The credit crisis/mortage/subprime mess nearly KO'd the nation. You expect it to be all good in a few short years?
I can see you and many others have a vested interest in making things look as bad as possible, so information that is contrary to your doom-and-gloom mindset is not received well. 
There is no need to argue, the numbers prove that the freefall experienced by the nation has been stopped, and we are on the way to recovery. Too bad if that isnt what you want to hear!


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## Scott SW Ohio (Sep 20, 2003)

Good news - I just (this morning) came to an agreement to sell my small-town commercial building to the owner of the hardware store next door. He started up in a vacant building in 2009 and now is doing well enough to expand. My building wasn't exactly for sale but the deal we made is good for both of us. I'm glad this happened and give credit to Tony, the entrepreneur, but it also is obvious that people hereabouts are doing better than a couple of years ago and have money to spend, which is helping small businesses.

I also sold a tract of farmland earlier this year to the long-time farmers whose land bordered mine. They had been renting the land but had some cash since crop prices the last few years have been pretty good. The house I live in I just bought in January. I got a mortgage rate of 4.25% which made the deal much more attractive. Compared to 2009 and 2010, the real estate market hereabouts is much more active.

I have been working voluntary part-time at my job since 2008, but when I wanted to buy the new house and take on a mortgage I needed to up my income. My boss readily agreed to let me go from a 60% schedule to 100%. Our business (scrap metal) is good now and there was plenty of work to do in my department. We were dead in the water in late 2008, sitting around watching coworkers get laid off and wondering who would be next. Since then steel and nonferrous demand has risen, we have returned to profitability, we got raises and bonuses this year and next year's bonuses are looking to be even better.

My wife works at a horse tack store that has expanded twice in the last two years and she also has gone from part-time to full time (and my daughter works there too). Capital for the expansion was provided by our local bank. 

I hesitate to praise or condemn any President for good or bad things happening in my life. On the other hand, I can see some cause and effect. Infrastructure stimulus spending certainly helped the mills who make structural and rebar products, who buy our scrap, and if the domestic auto industry had slid into bankruptcy I think my company would have gone down too. Real estate (where I have made a fair share of my income, on the side) is weak but improving noticeably, and governmental efforts to stimulate homebuying, moderate foreclosures and keep interest rates low seem to have contributed. And without regulations that encourage lenders to make loan money available, the expansion of my wife's employer and the hardware store that just bought my building would have been hard to finance. Should the President get credit for any of this? Most here would say no, and that's fine. For myself, I try to keep a balanced perspective.

I feel for those who are not doing well now, and hope things improve for you.


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## Jolly (Jan 8, 2004)

TheMartianChick said:


> This is similar to my situation... Under Bush, hubby's company began to struggle and cut his work week by one day. After 4 months under Obama, hubby was back to full work weeks and more importantly, a full paycheck.
> 
> Since the Republicans have started saying no to everything, I no longer feel that my job is as safe as it once was and I worry about new job creation. You see, while the big companies are shipping jobs overseas and downsizing their workforces, I work to help unemployed and underemployed people to start new businesses and create jobs. The Republicans seem to be enamored of "trickle down economics" which never seems to trickle down far enough.
> 
> Another thing that has improved for us is that we are making headway on paying off the mortgages on our rental properties. We are on track to reach our goals, so that we can buy a farm. That happened on President Obama's watch, though I also cannot lay it all at his feet. There are many factors at work.


I see....Vote for Obama, so more people can lose their jobs or be underemployed, leading to improved job security for you...

I guess no matter the situation, there's always an upside for someone.


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## Sawmill Jim (Dec 5, 2008)

Well with O at the helm my gun collection has gone threw the roof .:bow: And going higher every day eep::icecream:


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## Tricky Grama (Oct 7, 2006)

greg273 said:


> Ah tricky you obviously didnt even look at the unemployment numbers I posted.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Kinda hard to see -there's nothing there. Just a little red X.
Are you denying that unemployment was nowhere near 10 when the community organizer sock puppet took office? What did he mean when he said hurry hurry pass the stinkulus OR unemployment will go above 8%??? Do you know what it is now?
Sure, I'm complaining about campaign promises, when Bush 1 gets canned for the "D" congress raising taxes & this big Zero seems to be getting a pass. ONE broken promise & media goes nuts-if its not a "D".

You can be in whatever industry you chose to tell us about but I'm more inclined to believe the stats that come out every month. You cannot be serious if you count .05% growth 'improving'.


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## InvalidID (Feb 18, 2011)

Tricky Grama said:


> Kinda hard to see -there's nothing there. Just a little red X.
> Are you denying that unemployment was nowhere near 10 when the community organizer sock puppet took office? What did he mean when he said hurry hurry pass the stinkulus OR unemployment will go above 8%??? Do you know what it is now?
> Sure, I'm complaining about campaign promises, when Bush 1 gets canned for the "D" congress raising taxes & this big Zero seems to be getting a pass. ONE broken promise & media goes nuts-if its not a "D".
> 
> You can be in whatever industry you chose to tell us about but I'm more inclined to believe the stats that come out every month. You cannot be serious if you count .05% growth 'improving'.



I agree.
With the newest numbers saying the economy is dipping below stall speed I'm inclined to believe things are worse now than just 1 year ago, let alone when O took office. Anyone arguing otherwise is blowing smoke up your backside.


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## Ohio dreamer (Apr 6, 2006)

I haven't read any of the responses so I'm not sure what twists and turns this discussion has taken.....but I'll answer the original question.

The Obama presidency has been good for me (Please KEEP reading before you flame). Since Obama has taken office I have increased our food preps, enlarged our gardens and learned to shoot a .22, .410, 20 ga and finally a 12 ga and and looking to now learn to use a 9mm and get my CCW. I watch sales like a hawk and am buying socks and underwear in the next two sizes for my kids (Love back to school sales) and watching for other clothes for them to grow into. I'm buying school supplies years in advance and doing what I can, while DH still has an income, to get ready for tomorrow.


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## Laura Zone 5 (Jan 13, 2010)

Can I add:

It has opened my eyes. Without Obama, I would not see, what I see today.
The presidents before him were much sneakier, much more on the DL.
Obama let's it all hang out. He draws the picture, clear as a bell, and it's easy to connect the dots.
I can see clearly now, the veil is gone......
Thanks barry, you rock!


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## greg273 (Aug 5, 2003)

Tricky Grama said:


> Kinda hard to see -there's nothing there. Just a little red X.
> Are you denying that unemployment was nowhere near 10 when the community organizer sock puppet took office? What did he mean when he said hurry hurry pass the stinkulus OR unemployment will go above 8%??? Do you know what it is now?
> Sure, I'm complaining about campaign promises, when Bush 1 gets canned for the "D" congress raising taxes & this big Zero seems to be getting a pass. ONE broken promise & media goes nuts-if its not a "D".
> 
> You can be in whatever industry you chose to tell us about but I'm more inclined to believe the stats that come out every month. You cannot be serious if you count .05% growth 'improving'.


... hmmm thats the second time I posted that chart and BOTH times it has disappeared. It showed up in the post preview, so I dont know. Here is the link, again.
http://data.bls.gov/timeseries/LNS14000000


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## greg273 (Aug 5, 2003)

Scott SW Ohio said:


> Good news - I just (this morning) came to an agreement to sell my small-town commercial building to the owner of the hardware store next door. He started up in a vacant building in 2009 and now is doing well enough to expand. My building wasn't exactly for sale but the deal we made is good for both of us. I'm glad this happened and give credit to Tony, the entrepreneur, but it also is obvious that people hereabouts are doing better than a couple of years ago and have money to spend, which is helping small businesses.
> 
> I also sold a tract of farmland earlier this year to the long-time farmers whose land bordered mine. They had been renting the land but had some cash since crop prices the last few years have been pretty good. The house I live in I just bought in January. I got a mortgage rate of 4.25% which made the deal much more attractive. Compared to 2009 and 2010, the real estate market hereabouts is much more active.
> 
> ...



Yes, things have improved economically here also. That is the point so many seem to miss, that while things are still not great, they are also not in freefall mode as they were at the end of W's term. And, like I said, so many here have a vested interest in seeing Obama fail they will do ANYTHING to make their doom and gloom prophesies come true. And ignoring any POSITIVE economic news is part of their agenda.


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## Sawmill Jim (Dec 5, 2008)

Hope some of y'all hang on to that bright tingle feeling when everything does hit bottom .:shrug::icecream:


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## tarbe (Apr 7, 2007)

He moved us to buy 80 acres in the Ozarks.

I have a better stockpile of food, ammo and loading components than ever before.

My tool supply has never been better.

I doubled my savings rate and paid for it by stopping most non-essential spending.

Probably all things I should have done when Bush 43 was in office...but somehow BO pushed us over the edge. I think it was the massive increases in deficit spending that did it.


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## Ohio dreamer (Apr 6, 2006)

greg273 said:


> Yes, things have improved economically here also. That is the point so many seem to miss, that while things are still not great, they are also not in freefall mode as they were at the end of W's term. And, like I said, so many here have a vested interest in seeing Obama fail they will do ANYTHING to make their doom and gloom prophesies come true. And ignoring any POSITIVE economic news is part of their agenda.


I'm glad you are in one of the areas that are pulling out of this. Our area is not. I admit things haven't gotten any worse in the last year as far, as I can see... but they have not improved at all. I look at many of the things on the "agenda" and am very unhappy with the direction the government is trying to drag us. As DH and I said back during the last election it didn't mater who won (Obama or McCain) they were walking in to a bad situation that would only get worse. No matter what they did it would be wrong and would likely only make it one term. I'm not sure that the next election winner won't be in the same boat.


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## TheMartianChick (May 26, 2009)

Jolly said:


> I see....Vote for Obama, so more people can lose their jobs or be underemployed, leading to improved job security for you...
> 
> I guess no matter the situation, there's always an upside for someone.


That is not what I said... My job is not tied to there being more people unemployed. If that were true, then my job would be more secure today than it was 5 years ago. I don't work for the Department of Labor. I work for a non-profit agency that provides business counseling, marketing and business plan writing to entrepreneurs. The agency does a lot more, but that is my specific role. 

There are plenty of unemployed people who'd like to start businesses because there aren't a lot of jobs available here unless you have an engineering degree. (Our area gets a lot of defense contracts.) The local college campuses, school district and hospitals aren't hiring either. I used to be able to schedule an appointment for a new client within a week and a half. Now, I am booking clients into late September. We are funded through a private charitable trust that funds many projects in the area and don't have the money to hire someone else to do what I do. There is a strong chance that our funding will be halved for the next fiscal year.


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