# Splitting hives and allowing the hive to requeen itself?



## illinoisguy (Sep 4, 2011)

My wife is a beekeeper...and relatively new at this. She read somewhere that some people don't in anyways requeen themselves but force the split hive to raise up a queen. 

Do any of you do this?

thanks


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## Terri (May 10, 2002)

illinoisguy said:


> My wife is a beekeeper...and relatively new at this. She read somewhere that some people don't in anyways requeen themselves but force the split hive to raise up a queen.
> 
> Do any of you do this?
> 
> thanks


I did this by accident.

I was more or less over the flu when I went into a hive. Alas, I got dizzy so I just closed up and went to lie down: I had no bee suit back then and the idea of falling with bees in my hands did not appeal to me! So, I simply put the inner cover on one box and the outer cover on the other and lay back down.

3 days later I went back into the hive, and I saw that they had build a queen cell. I decided to let them raise her up, as it would make for an easy split and it was early enough in the summer for them to have time to establish the hive as a strong one. 

It went very well, excepting that the new queen never came back from her mating flight. So, I did have to introduce a new queen, but other than that the split went just as the textbooks said.


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## Steve in PA (Nov 25, 2011)

Yes. It's called a walkaway split. Google "Sustainable Beekeeping" to get an idea of what is going on. 

Last year my 5 frame nuc turned into a 8-frame double deep and 2 5-over-5 nucs headed into winter by doing splits June 1st. There's a thread with pics on here somewhere. As of the other day they all still looked really good.

This spring I plan to aggressively split using the OTS method and hope to go into winter with 4x more hives. It all depends on luck so I can't count on anything until spring.


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## k9 (Feb 6, 2008)

It's not the best way to do it, sets them back a lot and conditions must be right for it to work out.


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## Michael W. Smith (Jun 2, 2002)

k9 said:


> It's not the best way to do it, sets them back a lot and conditions must be right for it to work out.


 I disagree.
This is pretty much the way nature does it (swarming) - other than the queen cells are already started and just about ready to hatch when the old queen and half the colony leave.

I'd rather let the bees make their own queen (with genetics to survive our winters) rather than buy some queen raised from down South where winters are mild.


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## bobp (Mar 4, 2014)

In my opinion or the way I understand it, it cost the hive precious time to let them raise out a queen. 
In nature they're not trying to produce enough to replace the robbing that WE do, all they need is to feed the hive itself. 

It's safer to order a queen from a reputable breeder, or work with your local club, and you don't lose a month. And the what ifs are enormous. 

Time is of the essence. Think about it. You split them in early spring. Take the queen with the split. It takes 24-36 hours for the pheromone to dissipate. Then they'll draw a queen cell and get busy feeding Royal jelly, and it's likely that the hive may produce a few to several. First to emerge- winner winner sisters for dinner. (Lost time and energy) Then at the 21-23 day mark from being an egg she leaves on a mating flight. 24-48 hours returns, and then in 7 days she'll get busy.... Laying replacement bees. 3 more weeks before they emerge. 
Meanwhile the hives been losing workers for nearly 6 weeks. Which happens to be during the peak nectar flow! 

So yes time is of the essence, assuming of course that you have money in them, and you intend harvest honey....
25$ for a queen? Pretty cheap insurance if you ask me..... But that's just my 2Â¢


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## bobp (Mar 4, 2014)

My point is that we've stopped letting nature do things its own way, the minute we put them.in a box and Robb them down, forcing re stocking efforts by the hive. 
Ethically you have an obligation to prevent swarming by boxed hives by making splits and managing them properly. Otherwise you set them up for failure. Enough failed hives happen as it is without encouraging it almost intentionally.


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## ed/La (Feb 26, 2009)

Safe easy split. Plus you can prevent swarming by splitting a strong 2 brood deep hive. Use double screened bottom board between the two boxes. Both boxes have brood and food. Make the top box with the queen, point entrance the opposite direction. The worker bees with her go back to original entrance, the bottom box. She is left with brood, nurse bees and food. She will not swarm . Bottom box, no queen, is roaring with bees. They make queen cells, have no new brood to take care of so they forage and pack in the honey. You can often harvest a queen cell or two before they hatch for another split. If it does not work out remove double screen divider and it is one hive again. You do this during the flow when they want to swarm.


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## alleyyooper (Apr 22, 2005)

Unless your a commercial honey producer I see no reason not to do a walk away queen rearing split.

I suggest you start early, watch your hives for drones, once you see drones you can do the split the new queen from cells to laying takes about 30 days total by then the drones are ready for mating. Takes them about 10 day from hatching to be ready to mate.

Advantage is your getting a new queen from a known queen in your apiary, Her genic have made it thru a winter at least so that shows promise. 

It is my belief that we set back our northern colonies every time we buy a southern or warm climate queen. At our bee club meetings one of the biggest complaints is those package queens fail over half the time.

The double screen isn't really a bottom board. One demention is wrong but I can't remember which one or maybe I did fix it.



It goes between the two deeps as shown. Only time I use it is if Ihave a caged queen and want to install her in a colony that has a queen and I want the new queen to stay warm.




 Al


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## ed/La (Feb 26, 2009)

What I was trying to describe is what Alleyyooper shows except in the south with our heat and humidity most use screened bottom boards. The biggest chance of failure here is the new queen not making it back from mating flight. I think it is about 80% success rate. If you harvest a cell or two you increases your odds of a mated queen or two returning. You need to do splits with strong hives. With a weak hive re queen with one of the queen cells you harvested from strong hive. No sense making new queen from bad genetics. No brood for short period of time can be good. A brood break will help break mite cycle. Save old queens in small bottle with alcohol in fridge. Use as swam lure in swarm traps. If you buy bees from different part of country you should re queen with eggs from your best local proven hives by mid to late summer. The easiest time to make queens is when the bees want to do it. During a good flow.


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## alleyyooper (Apr 22, 2005)

*"The easiest time to make queens is when the bees want to do it. During a good flow." *The easiest time to make a new queen is when the bees want to. That is any time they are queen less and they have eggs and real young larva in the hive. Only time they will make queen cells in a queen rite colony is when they are getting ready to swarm. 

If you find cells in a queen rite colony it is time to make a artificial swarm. remove the queen to a new set of hives and shake in about half the bees. then every thing is normally back to normal.

 Al


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