# Tattooing



## redneckswife (May 2, 2013)

I have a couple of questions for those of you who have experience with the tattooing.

I went to purchase a tattoo kit for the Netherland dwarf bunnies. I noticed that besides the tattoo "press", there is also a Tattoo Pen.

Has anyone had any experience with the Pen? If you have used both, which is easier and which is more permanant?

I went to pick up 2 new Jr. Does and the breeder told me that it's harder to get a good permanant tattoo in the summer(he used the "press"). When I got home, I noticed that on one of the does, I couldn't even make out the first letter, the # is barely recognizable. Since I paid for a pedigreed doe with a tattoo, is it unethical to re-tattoo her ear with his letter & #? He lives 4 hours round trip away.The 2nd does tattoo is easily seen.

Third question(okay 4th),These are white does, their tattoos are only 3 days old, but the ink smear is getting on other parts of their coats, besides their ears. Is the excessive ink supposed to wear off or is there something I can use to clean it off? He rubbed them down with Vaseline after he tattooed and it's becoming quit the mess.

My other Dwarfs tattoos weren't new when I got them, so I'm unsure what the procedure is after....

Any info would be helpful.


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## TMTex (Apr 5, 2013)

I use the KBTatts pen with their supplied ink. The tattoos are nice and sharp and there's no fading. It's easy to do and doesn't seem to hurt the bunnies, but it takes a little time.

I clean the ear with alcohol, then use Bactine to numb it. (Bactine has 2.5% lidocaine). I then prep the ear with antiseptic ointment and with my wife holding the bunny tight in a towel, I tattoo the left ear after the Bactine has taken effect (about a minute). I then clean the ear with alcohol again and check the tattoo. I reapply Bactine, touch up any that need it and reclean with alcohol, then apply Bactine again. It really helps to have a second person help because the rabbits get bored and want to go off to explore.

You can touch up the left ear without any worries. It's the right ear (reserved for registration) that some have questioned.

I can't help you with the mess. Perhaps someone who's experienced that might chime in.


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## SherryB (Oct 10, 2012)

When I first got my rabbits the person put the tattoo with the clamp in one rabbit's ear. Yes, the ink rubbed off elsewhere and it did fade away. So, no worries there presuming the ink is something similar. I have used sharpie pens which I thought was a very permanent ink and it even fades away. So, I think that aspect will be fine for you and your bunnies.


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## redneckswife (May 2, 2013)

Thanks TMTEX.
I think I'm gonna try the Tat Pen.

Thanks Sherry, I was worried that these white bunnies would forever look like they have eradic black patches of hair,lol.


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## Caprice Acres (Mar 6, 2005)

I use both the clamp and the pen. 

I tattoo alone, so the clamp is easier for me to do mass amounts of rabbits. I *always* tattoo rabbits at 6 weeks of age - the whole litter - because I usually wean them all into one big growout pen. One SF kit looks much like another, so a permanent ID is important. 

However, for whatever reason, my tattoos fade like crazy. Some are bright and vibrant but the majority are hard to read. Makes for annoying times at shows. 

I also have an EZ tatt and LOVE it. HOWEVER, it is REALLY hard to restrain rabbits to tattoo them this way. I don't have anybody to help me. Tattoos take a LONG time to do, also.

Currently what I do is tattoo with a clamp at 6 weeks of age, then redo them on animals if their tatts fade or are difficult for a judge to quickly read. Even my most difficult rabbits I can read the tattoo in the proper light or with back lighting (most are just dim, not illegible or impossible to read), but most of the time I want them to be quickly and easily read. The pen makes SUPER clear bright tattoos as long as you don't screw up or have horrid writing.


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## Andrei (Jul 9, 2013)

What is the Natural reason to tattoo an animal?


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## TMTex (Apr 5, 2013)

Someone on one of these forums came up with a sock that held the bunnies firmly so you could tattoo them. It had a hole for the ears, but covered the body and eyes.

Looked like a good tool if you had to tattoo alone. The idea is probably easy enough to implement and adding a velcro belt would probably help too.


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## Caprice Acres (Mar 6, 2005)

Andrei said:


> What is the Natural reason to tattoo an animal?


There is essentially no natural reason for anything we do in raising domestic animals IMO... But that being said, pedigreed animals are tattooed. They must be tattooed to show. And when you have several animals you maintain more as 'livestock' and less as 'pets', then it can be hard to tell each one apart as one black rabbit looks much like the next.  Without a permanent, easy identification it is impossible to have any sort of meaningful recordkeeping program unless you're extensively 'involved' in your rabbitry, which I don't have time for or a need for. I like easy. I like recordkeeping so even if I didn't have pedigreed purebred show rabbits, I can keep track of who is productive in the meat sense (I still raise commercial meat breeds and production traits like litter size and mothering are important to me).

I made a 'sock' for tattoing and it still isn't very good but is about as effective as anything I could buy, I imagine. I took the sleeve from one of my small old sweatshirts and zip tied the wrist opening shut, and cut a hole for the ear. I then stuff the bunny in and pull the ear through the hole. They STILL manage to put up quite the fuss in the thing and come out spitting angry.


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## rabbitgeek (Mar 22, 2008)

I have tattoo notes on my web page
http://rabbitgeek.com/articles/tattoo.html

Have a good day!


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## lonelyfarmgirl (Feb 6, 2005)

One thing helpful I have found when tattooing with a clamp is the use a soft toothbrush to rub the ink into the holes post tattoo, then coat with ointment. They fade less this way. Also make sure the ink is well shaken and the clamp letters are super clean and sharp. they do get dull after some years go by.

Andrei when you have more than a couple rabbits, the only way to accurately identify them is with a tattoo in the ear. Its safe, fast, only hurts for a split second and permanent. In all animal events it is a requirement.


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## Andrei (Jul 9, 2013)

mygoat said:


> There is essentially no natural reason for anything we do in raising domestic animals IMO...


Food.
Eating is Natural.
Showing is not.
It just feeds the ego.


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## MDKatie (Dec 13, 2010)

We just tattooed all our babies last night. We use the clamp style, and it works great. The does I tattooed last year still have really nice, bright tattoos. We put ink on the ear first, then tattoo, then rub more in w/ a toothbrush. The rabbits do struggle for a second when it's first clamped, but then they're ok. I held them, and my 10 year old DSS tattoed them. 

And yeah, my 10 year old is showing at the 4-H fair to stroke his ego. :whistlin:


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## redneckswife (May 2, 2013)

Andrei said:


> Food.
> Eating is Natural.
> Showing is not.
> It just feeds the ego.


I eat my NZ.I don't eat my small breeds(Netherland Dwarfs or Lionheads).
Each owner makes a personal decision what to do with their own stock.

My small breeds are being purchased mainly by Jr.4-H girls who are age 6 to 8 yrs. old. They then show these rabbits at County Fairs and other youth or open shows.These types of shows require a tattoo(most of the shows)I think it teaches them responsiblity for another living being, not to have big egos:umno:.These kids also learn how to lose gracefully as they won't always win,so I am having a hard time seeing how dealing with ups & downs feed an ego:shrug:?

What someone does with my livestock after they purchase it, is their business. I do not/would not inform others what to do with their purchases in other areas of their lives:nono:, why would thier animal be any different?


ANYWAYS, Thanks to all of you for the super helpful information on tattooing, as it looks like it will be something I will becoming familar with and it helps to hear others experience and some ideas on different ways:thumb:


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## Caprice Acres (Mar 6, 2005)

Andrei said:


> Food.
> Eating is Natural.
> Showing is not.
> It just feeds the ego.


Do you keep records at all as to who is a good meat producing doe? If so, that's unnatural. (and easier if you tattoo your rabbits... I understand if you just have 2-3, but if you ave 30 meat rabbits, they often all start looking the same and as I said, I maintain mine more like livestock than pets. So one looks much like another at first glance) Do you keep rabbits in cages/pens or feed them things you pick or purchase? That's not natural. Do you raise a domestic breed of rabbit for meat? Those were all created through artificial selection - so that's not natural.  

As for feeding the ego - maybe a bit, as I like seeing my rabbits do well, and it's 'payoff' for all the hard work I do towards my goals. But, I enjoy going to shows and NOT winning almost as much because I have many, many friends and talk to many, many people about the hobby of rabbit raising. I like hearing the judge make comments that agree with what I think are a rabbits' strong and weak points, even if that means it's not a winner - because it means I'm recognizing faults and strengths that will influence my breeding strategy. It's about improving the breed and a show gives you direction to do so. Reducing it to 'just feeding my ego' is just not accurate.


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## lonelyfarmgirl (Feb 6, 2005)

Andrei said:


> Food.
> Eating is Natural.
> Showing is not.
> It just feeds the ego.


If every person only did things that were natural and didn't feed the ego, it would be a very boring life indeed. Showing may or may not feed the ego, but what it DOES do is give me the reputation that allows me to be able to sell my rabbits for 100-150$ EACH, which pays to feed them, and quite a few of my other small livestock. It also makes me be able to afford to give rabbits to youth for alot of the reasons already mentioned by mygoat. 4H livestock teaches responsibility and compassion.

You know, I've seen you say things like this on other boards. Excuse me for being forward, and my apologies if I'm wrong, but I smell an HRS troll.


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## rabbitgeek (Mar 22, 2008)

We used Evans Rabbit Register to print pedigrees for our rabbits. It tracks tattoo numbers too. We also used to for tracking litters, how many weaned, weights, etc. The more data you put in the better the reports you can get out of it.

And we definitely enjoyed competing in the shows. Our first goal was NO DQs (no disqualifcations in show). If we could stay on the table we had a chance at the blue ribbon.

My sons spent their first year trying to beat a well known youth breeder of Netherland Dwarfs. They were happy to take 2nd place or even 3rd place. The 2nd year we were beating some of his rabbits. Then he graduated out of youth rabbits. Our sons now had 2 years of experience show and breeding rabbits. They started winning lots of blue ribbons.

We had a lot of fun in the rabbit shows.
Have a good day!


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## TMTex (Apr 5, 2013)

lonelyfarmgirl said:


> You know, I've seen you say things like this on other boards. Excuse me for being forward, and my apologies if I'm wrong, but I smell an HRS troll.


Andrei does seem to goad and insult when the opportunity presents itself. I found that if you ignore him, he'll eventually go away. Answering just gives him an excuse to respond.


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## mamma24 (Aug 29, 2012)

I had purchased a pen style tattooer that was HORRIBLE. Every tattoo didn't last and the needles broke very easily. I just recently purchased the new KBtatts Tattoo Pen and I already love it! I really researched my options and this one had great reviews. The customer service was amazing - had the tattoo pen/ink in my hands in less than a week. I feel that small business that do a great job deserve a shout out! www.kbtatts.weebly.com


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## MDKatie (Dec 13, 2010)

Is it hard to hold the animal while using a pen tattooer? I know they struggle when we clamp the other kind, so I am thinking it'd be hard to use the pen tattooer.


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## lonelyfarmgirl (Feb 6, 2005)

mamma24 what was the brand you bought that failed on you?

MDKatie, I've found it depends on the breed and the individual animal. The younger they are it seems the easier it is to use the pen. Make sure you are getting in between the veins in the ear and don't hold them too hard, and stay away from the tips, as that is where it tends to hurt them. Go as deep in the ear as possible. I know a woman who is very well-endowed and simply places them on her "shelf" (her words) and doesn't really hold them at all.

If I get a squirmy one, I sit down and place it on its back in between my leg cracks to hold the entire body secure, or I tuck the whole body like a football under my arm. It is important that they can't flail. You don't want them to injure themselves. 

If I get a particular difficult animal or an older animal, I simply use my clamps instead.


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## MDKatie (Dec 13, 2010)

lonelyfarmgirl said:


> I know a woman who is very well-endowed and simply places them on her "shelf" (her words) and doesn't really hold them at all.


Ha! Too funny. Thanks for the info. I borrowed a tattooer, but I think if I bought one I'd like to tattoo them at an earlier age. Seems like it'd be much less stressful for them.


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## wr (Aug 10, 2003)

Andrei said:


> Showing is not.
> It just feeds the ego.


Showing livestock does a lot more than feed the ego. While I have not raised purebred/registered rabbits, I have raised registered livestock and it takes a long time to develope a reputation within the industry. Showing provides an opportunity to showcase your operation, network with inudstry peers, make valuable contacts, and explore genetics that may be different from my own.


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## TMTex (Apr 5, 2013)

MDKatie said:


> I borrowed a tattooer, but I think if I bought one I'd like to tattoo them at an earlier age. Seems like it'd be much less stressful for them.


Consider using a lidocaine solution. Bactine has 2.5% and there are actual tattoo pain deadening solutions with 4% Lidocaine. I've also heard of people using Benzocaine, but from what I recall, it burns at first.

I also found a tattoo solution that had 2.5% lidocaine at the local HEB grocery store. Personally, I like Bactine because it's cheaper and doubles as an antiseptic. I put some on a cotton ball to apply it.

It takes over a minute for the lidocaine to take effect, so a little patience is in order.

Good luck.


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## Fat Man (Mar 9, 2011)

Andrei said:


> Showing is not.
> It just feeds the ego.



You say that like it's a bad thing.


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## Andrei (Jul 9, 2013)

Fat Man said:


> You say that like it's a bad thing.


No, I do not.
I do not see good vs bad in life.
All I see is Natural or not.


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## Fat Man (Mar 9, 2011)

Define natural.


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## Andrei (Jul 9, 2013)

I do not define what is natural.
I look in Nature and observe it.
Nature defines what is natural and all I can do is try to blend with it as much as I can and when I can.
It is sad that the admin decided to erase the info I posted but that is the result of UN-natural life some have.
I have raise rabbits since 1972 and for some reason I could always tell them apart.
I have raised competition race pigeons since 1996 and looking at them I know who is who and what they have accomplished and who are the parents.
It is part of bonding with them.

PS. I might not be able to post soon due to pending banning.


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## Fat Man (Mar 9, 2011)

Your definition is tautological and as such of little value. If nature defines itself to each person then no one can tell another that what they do is unnatural as they are following the definition that nature has given them.

Sorry but I find your ramblings on what is natural a bit pompous.


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## TMTex (Apr 5, 2013)

I forgot to mention...

If you go with the KBTatts pen, there's a little black sleeve protecting the needle. It blends in with the rest of the pen so it's not obvious. You'll need to slip that sleeve off of the tip before inking.

I didn't notice it at first.


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