# Buck to doe ratio



## rabbithappy (Jun 24, 2009)

I was just wondering what most people's buck to doe ratio is. Up until tonight I had 6 does & 2 bucks. I just gave my NZW buck to my neighbors, as I was tired of dealing with his allergies. ( They plan to have him for Sunday dinner). I had planned on getting another NZW buck to replace him, even found a place that has several to choose from. Then got to wondering, is it really necessary to have 2 bucks for only 6 does? What do you all think?


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## SquashNut (Sep 25, 2005)

It depends on how fast you can replace him if some thing happens. I have 3 breeds and 12 does and 5 bucks.


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## brody (Feb 19, 2009)

are your does bred? any to him? if so I'd wait and see if any of the popples are keepers 

depending on your buck he can probably handle 6 does but it might be a scramble if someting happens to him to find a replacement


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## MaggieJ (Feb 6, 2006)

You can lose a lot of time if you don't have a back-up buck. We had a apparently healthy 14 month old buck die suddenly... leaving us without a viable herd sire. Due to my tendency to procrastination, none of my does were bred when he died. He did sire a nice litter that were a couple weeks old when he died. Thanks to Brodie and Moonkitten :bow: it looks like I will soon have a new boy to carry on. But you can be sure that the most promising buckling from our month-old litter will be kept as well. Lesson learned.


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## brody (Feb 19, 2009)

hehehehe 


I love it when a plan comes together


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## rabbithappy (Jun 24, 2009)

You all mentioned a very good point. I would hope nothing would happen to my buck, but you never know & I guess its better to be prepared for the unexpected. I do have my 2 ( now almost 9 week old ) kits from him. I'm not sure if one is a buck or not. I planned on re-sexing them tomorrow. The first time I checked, it looked like a buck & a doe. That was when they were 5 weeks. Then I checked them Monday when they turned 8 weeks. To me, it still looked like a buck & a doe, but my friend felt for sure it was 2 does. I think I'll take my magnifying glass out with me tomorrow when I do a recheck. Might help me see things better! The only doe I have bred by him is the one due next week that we thought might be a false pregnancy. I'll update you all on her in another post, as I want to get your opinions.


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## pfaubush (Aug 17, 2009)

Suppose some of your does are from that buck and you kept one from his litter as a backup buck. If you're only breeding for meat, would that be ok? I know you aren't supposed to breed brothers and sisters. I hope I'm not hi-jacking here (not my intention), the question just made me think of that.


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## BackfourtyMI. (Sep 3, 2007)

I think Mother to son & father to daughter is fine, like in goats, especially since your raising them for your family for meat.

I have 1 Buck & 3 doe's, sure hope nothing happens to my buck because I don't plan on breeding them again till early spring & all the babies in grow out pens will be in the freezer by then.


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## MaggieJ (Feb 6, 2006)

Even brother/sister matings are not generally a problem. One study of inbreeding in rabbits determined that the rabbits did not begin to show genetic problems until the 17th generation. My rabbits are quite inbred. It is probably a good idea to bring in some new blood every few years, but in a small rabbitry for home use this is less of a concern than when breeding purebreds where the line will be preserved long-term. Inbreeding does not create weaknesses... it can only accentuate characteristics that already exist. It is very important to only save the best of the best for breeding.... but when you are breeding for meat, this makes good sense anyway.


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## brody (Feb 19, 2009)

MaggieJ said:


> . It is very important to only save the best of the best for breeding.... but when you are breeding for meat, this makes good sense anyway.



doesn't it just make good sense period?


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## vikav (Mar 30, 2009)

MaggieJ said:


> Even brother/sister matings are not generally a problem. One study of inbreeding in rabbits determined that the rabbits did not begin to show genetic problems until the 17th generation. My rabbits are quite inbred. It is probably a good idea to bring in some new blood every few years, but in a small rabbitry for home use this is less of a concern than when breeding purebreds where the line will be preserved long-term. Inbreeding does not create weaknesses... it can only accentuate characteristics that already exist. It is very important to only save the best of the best for breeding.... but when you are breeding for meat, this makes good sense anyway.


I agree with Maggie, in a small rabbitry one can usually easily bring in a new buck to shake up the genetics, every 3 years or so. I now have 2 unrelated NZW does and 1 buck from one breeder, and unrelated 1 NZR doe and 1 NZR buck from another place. Too many bucks IMO, but I wanted the reds. I figure, I have enough genetics here for at least 5 years, if not more. The different combinations I can have with those 5 are so numerous. I could breed across the colors some, and then back to the same color, or whatever. These of course are not show rabbits, therefore I can breed them any way I want. I really don't like bringing any new rabbits in, always can expect problems. To me it's important to chose a really good bun when buying replacement stock. (look who's talking, me, and after choosing the worst possible NZR buck a little while ago  )


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## MaggieJ (Feb 6, 2006)

brody said:


> doesn't it just make good sense period?


Yes, it certainly does (make good sense to keep only the best of the best) whatever your reasons for breeding rabbits... but where people are breeding for reasons other than meat, there _may_ be a temptation to save a larger percentage of youngsters.


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## brody (Feb 19, 2009)

fair enough - I knew you'd explain what you meant  thanks

vikav- you raise a really good point - it makes me so nervous when I hear people happily posting they brought a new rabbit home and bred it or whatever that night - until something goes wrong it's hard to really grasp the importance of quarantine until something goes wrong 

I'm very fortunate I guess in that one of the first animals I ever fostered was a kitten with ringworm - I was forced to set up a good isolation ward in our old house and it was easy to keep using it when new animals arrived .. I have had some horrble things come through the door (parvo, disptemper, pasturella, tons of parasites, etc) but becuase of q procedures have never jeopordized the health of my own gang ...
I err on the side of paranoid - and it works for me


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## o&itw (Dec 19, 2008)

I am keeping three bucks right now, but that is onlyt because I am in a cropss breeding program. I would normally keep two, it is an added expense, but like Maggies said, there is always a chance one will lose a buck for some reason. If I am raising a replacemnt buck, I am apt to let one of the older bucks go when the younger one gets to 12-14 weeks old. Even if I would lose the other buck, it would not delay the program that long. According to Murphy, there will never be a replacment buck available from another rabbitry when you need one.

Once I get my mix breed set, I will still try to bring in outside bucks often. I am a big believer in hybrid vigor, in fact that is what my crosses are all about. While it is true that inbreeding may not cause a problem for multiple generations, there will be losses in health viability and fertility. The problem with thinking one can go an x number of generations, is that most rabbits, especially "show rabbits" have already been line bred for a number of generations when one gets them... especially if one gets them from the same breeder, ore even in the same area. Line breeding is a type of inbreeding. I have raised show animals for years, and if one is raising show animals there is not much of a way around it if one wants to win. But now that I am raising rabbits for meat, I only have to be concerned about growth rate, and body type, so I can breed primarily for viability and health. A show rabbit breeder has to be concerned about everything from color, to ear set, to back arch... on and on....that doesn't leave much room to worry about vigor, and fertility doesn't get much of a thought till the rabbits are almost sterile.


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## NorWester (Jul 23, 2009)

How many generations have you inbred before size and fertility diminishes?

I can personally say I've never seen what I consider a bonifide example of hybrid vigor (using the term in the context most breeders do).
In my opinion one has to inbreed two separate and distinct lines until you begin to lose ground with each, (size, fertility, function) and then cross the two thereby getting the hybrid vigor effect. 
What you are describing simply sounds like a proper selection process of the traits and characteristics you desire to propagate within the bloodlines you utilize.


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## Skykomish (May 28, 2008)

I think it depends on the health/quality of what you're inbreeding on. I have a Rex doe (who you all have been hearing about) who may have snuffles or at least has sneezy weepy nose. She has the same grandmother on both sides. (BIS Grand Champion, that threw BIS Grand Champs, both of my doe's parents) That doe must have had a weakness in her immune system, because according to what I'm reading almost all rabbits CARRY pastuerella but very very few actually get snuffles.


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## NorWester (Jul 23, 2009)

> I think it depends on the health/quality of what you're inbreeding on


I agree. The fault (or credit depending on the example) almost always rests with the selection process before it does the style of breeding used.


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