# Drawing up plans for a DYI vawt, Help



## RW kansas hogs (Nov 19, 2010)

Well my idea is make a vawt to run a eletric fence for a 3 acre pasture for our steers. Where i live is pretty much tree-less with the exception of wind breaks by the house's. 
The pasture is 3/4 of a mile away with no trees anywhere so i think it will work great, Most of the supplies i have but will have to order some on line, I plan on using a alternator with a voltage regulator built in.

My qeustions are,
1. Do i need a seperate power source for the alternator or can i run a wire from the positive side of a battery that will be used as back up for the fencer?
2. Should i run 2 alternators to make sure i have enough amps for the 3 acres of fence? 
3. I have done a lot of :kung: so to me everything should work ( in my head :happy Am i missing anything? 
Feel free to tweek it or give me ideas, Its work in progress. Thanks everybody. Tim


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## TraderBob (Oct 21, 2010)

I can't give you advise, I'm sorry. I am however interested in how it works for you. I have found both pro and con articles on the vawt, pretty evenly split whether conventional or vawt works better. Looking forward to your adventure.


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## wy_white_wolf (Oct 14, 2004)

RW kansas hogs said:


> Well my idea is make a vawt to run a eletric fence for a 3 acre pasture for our steers. Where i live is pretty much tree-less with the exception of wind breaks by the house's.
> The pasture is 3/4 of a mile away with no trees anywhere so i think it will work great, Most of the supplies i have but will have to order some on line, I plan on using a alternator with a voltage regulator built in.
> 
> My qeustions are,
> ...


 If this is critical that the fencer stayed powered make sure you have a big enough battery bank to power it for at least 10 days without any wind. Solar can usually get by with only 5 days atonomy as it more dependable that the sun will come up oner the wind will blow hard enough to generate power.


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## artificer (Feb 26, 2007)

The first question is: why go with a vawt? Is it a cool project you want to do, and powering a fence is a good excuse? If so, then go for it.

If you want a better solution, just get a solar panel and battery. We have a small fencer thats run with 2 D-cell batteries. You don't need much power for a small fence.

What type of alternators are you talking about? Axial flux, Disk drive PM, or from a car, something else?

Michael


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## Jim-mi (May 15, 2002)

Why not just go with the tried and proven solar electric fence units . . . ????
VERY durable and no upkeep persay . . . .

And spinning fast enough to make an alternator work . . .??
Let alone enough power to spin two alternators . . . . .??

Of the few vawt's that I have seen . . .A good Kansas wind would have shattered them very quickly...............

solar fence chargers are an excellent way to go............


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## NW Rancher (Mar 8, 2008)

1. If you are talking about supplying voltage to excite the alternator, you won't need to add an extra wire or extra battery. Depending on the alternator, you can excite it from the positive post on the alt, if it isn't already set up like that.

2. Two alts is way overkill for both the fence and the turbine, in my opinion.

You've gotten solid advice above, but if you want to build it, I think it'll be a cool project. That said, I'd just buy an off the shelf solar unit and build the thing to run the margarita blender or something equally impressive.


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## farminghandyman (Mar 4, 2005)

If a small solar panel can run a fencer, and I would just go buy a solar charger, if it was me, or run a wire out to the pasture from power and go that route, I have ran fences miles from the house with good grounds, 
I am not a fan of battery or solar chargers, usually kinda anemic IMO

I am sure a car alternator will keep the battery charged up well even if it the smallest auto alternator made, if you can get the RP Ms up on the alternator, and that will be the basic challenge, 

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9UPe6A_UVPc&feature=relmfu]How to Make an Inexpensive Vertical Wind Turbine - Part 1 - YouTube[/ame]
[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=24LSnATIZhw&annotation_id=annotation_677293&feature=iv]How to Make an Inexpensive Vertical Wind Turbine - Part 2 - YouTube[/ame]
note: the bearings and items IMO are to light and flimisy for real use and relibality, but posted for an example,

I would just use pulleys, but your going to have to get the alternator spinning near 1000 rpm to start to generate power, the cut in speed, at least of most automotive type alternators are close to that, I have been working on car alternators and batteries and have started the car and the alternator is putting out 0 amps and the voltage is battery, and not until I speed the engine up to the cut in will it start to produce power, 

so if your spinning at 50 rpm you will need a 20 to 1 step up in pulleys, to get you 1000 rpm at the alternator, but the problem is you alternator has about a 2 pulley on it, so you will need about a 40" pulley, now for that size of pulley it could be a plywood flat pulley for what your doing, or a old wheel of the propper size, 

note: the video only showed some voltage not charging, my guess is that he is not spinning his alternator fast enough to get any real work out of it, 

but I would go solar before I went and tryed to build a wind charger like that, IMO


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## stormrider27 (May 31, 2011)

if you want to know everything there is about flying a turbine check out these guys Fieldlines.com: The Otherpower discussion board - Index and also Welcome to OTHERPOWER.COM

There isnt much these guys haven't done or seen 


Storm


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## Jim-mi (May 15, 2002)

Just for kicks I went and watched FHM's links on building a vawt.............

Give the guy credit for being in his shop and not watching dumb TV . . . . . 

But a "lazy suszan" bearing . . . .WOW

Now the bet is how quick would a real wind scatter / shatter that thing . . . . . ????

What I saw there is a backyard whirly-gig conversation piece.........

Not at all a piece of equipment to generate power......


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## farminghandyman (Mar 4, 2005)

I know it was not the best video, but some one sent it to me, and it was easy to find, what I was trying to point out is his speed conversion for the alternator was not going to be fast enough, to generator power, 

saw one using bicycle wheel with out tire for the large pulley, it would be simple and easy to find, for the gear increase,


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## wy_white_wolf (Oct 14, 2004)

The Generator used in the videos is not a standard car alternator. It has been converted to a PM Generator and is not internally regulated. That is the reason they can get by with it producing at lower RPMs.

Link to generator
Wind Generator Turbine PMA Alternator | eBay


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## artificer (Feb 26, 2007)

farminghandyman said:


> ...
> I am not a fan of battery or solar chargers, usually kinda anemic IMO


You should see the Gallager MR5000 fencer at work thats run off of solar power. not anemic at all. That thing will drop you to your knees. It all depends on the battery and solar panel. This wouldn't be a typical application, however. 50 joule fencers are overkill for most homesteaders.

Michael


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## farminghandyman (Mar 4, 2005)

artificer said:


> You should see the Gallager MR5000 fencer at work thats run off of solar power. not anemic at all. That thing will drop you to your knees. It all depends on the battery and solar panel. This wouldn't be a typical application, however. 50 joule fencers are overkill for most homesteaders.
> 
> Michael


my search of that model is a 120 volt unit not a solar unit, and the $1200 price tag is a little limiting,

I have liked the parmak units, my self, I like the mark 7 and have had good luck with them they run about $110 and claim to be a 30 mile fencer, it is line voltage unit (not solar), 

now the last time I tried a solar unit was close to 20 years ago I tried two different units and was not impressed, found it better to run a wire out to the fence it is was a few miles off, and had better luck than the solar units, as most of them are only 6 volt units 12 at the most, 

(but the specifications of the new units look fairly good),

I have found that the better the fencer you have (if your in sand and it is dry), the better the fencer you have the better, I try to get the rate units for 30 to 50 miles, even tho I usually only have a few miles on the fencer at any time,


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## artificer (Feb 26, 2007)

farminghandyman said:


> my search of that model is a 120 volt unit not a solar unit, and the $1200 price tag is a little limiting,


The unit is powered with a big solar panel, and an inverter. They were thinking of using 2 of them. 50 joules each.

Gallager also makes a 26J unit thats battery powered directly. Considering many of the solar fence chargers are under 1J, its fairly impressive. I don't want to pay for any of them though.

Considering they talk about miles of fence that they can power, if AC is available, running a line from the power source to the fence, even if its a good distance away is a good idea.

Michael


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## solidwoods (Dec 23, 2005)

How far to the nearest electricity?
I've used TV coax buried to send the hot wire. Works great. Large dia. wire (the center wire :spinsmiley.
jim


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## Jim-mi (May 15, 2002)

Just don't advertise that to your local electrical inspector . . . . .he'll have a tizzy fit.

And of course not recommended for Joe Public who have NO idea of what neutral and hot are to electric.

If you don't have some knowledge thats a good way to electrocute yourself...


pardon me solidwoods but when I read on here unsafe ideas I like to jump in about 'safe' ways
I have no idea of your electrical ability, but I read on here far to often of those who shouldn't touch anything electrical . . .even with a ten foot wooden pole . . lol


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## farminghandyman (Mar 4, 2005)

If I have to power a fence some distance away I usually just build a single wire fence and if I have to go under a drive way or what ever, I use a piece of Polly pipe, and feed a normal 12 Gage THHN copper wire thorough it, and under the drive (where were at the roads are gravel and I have just pulled the Polly pipe under like pulling a lawn sprinkler line, a single knife (usually a an old single anhydrous ammonia knife, attached to a three point bar, and a loop welded on it to attach the grip for the pipe, (the grips are usually the Chinese finger type, similar to this picture, http://upload.ecvv.com/upload/Produ...rips_Heavy_Duty_Split_Grips20111081158596.jpg

If your on a barbed wire fence, or multi wire fence, and by using that to get your fencer power by using the non electrified wire will extend the ground, wire or get a better ground as each (if steel post will act like an additional ground stake),


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## artificer (Feb 26, 2007)

Jim-mi said:


> Just don't advertise that to your local electrical inspector . . . . .he'll have a tizzy fit.
> 
> And of course not recommended for Joe Public who have NO idea of what neutral and hot are to electric.


I don't think he means hot as in 110v black/red line, but the high voltage line from the charger.

They make special burial wire for fences. The Coaxial cable should work well.

Did you know that if you have a mile of buried fence wire, even with proper burial wire, it really drains the charge? Thats one big capacitor if the wire isn't in the air.

Michael


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## Jim-mi (May 15, 2002)

Thanks Michael, Had not thought of doing that...........

But at the price of any wire now-a-days seems like that would still make a solar powered fence charger the least $$$$ way to go.

I've got a partial spool of RG9U that would run out to my outback garden but a solar unit sitting on a fence post "out there" would be a lot less hassle then running a "wire" to it......

Yes any distance with coax would drain the zap power......


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## fishhead (Jul 19, 2006)

When I was trying electric fencing around my fish ponds I connected them all to the charger by running a wire from each pond loop to the next suspended high enough to drive under. That same method could be used to run power out to a remote fence.


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## solidwoods (Dec 23, 2005)

Jim-mi said:


> Just don't advertise that to your local electrical inspector . . . . .he'll have a tizzy fit.
> 
> And of course not recommended for Joe Public who have NO idea of what neutral and hot are to electric.
> 
> ...



The Hot wire from the shocker box not the 110 hot wire.
jim


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