# Kit houses?



## dragonjaze (Sep 8, 2010)

wow, brand new forum, and it's already hopping  love it!

Has anybody built from a kit house? I've looked at soooooo many different kit houses, but still have yet to find a floor plan that really speaks to me. I know what I want in a house.

I've also read lots of people who love their kit houses, but I'm wondering if it's really that much cheaper than building from custom plans, especially on very small houses.

Do you or someone you know have a kit house? love it, hate it, what?


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## MushCreek (Jan 7, 2008)

I've been planning my house for 4 years now. Early on, I looked at kit houses, but decided they are too limiting and expensive. The cheapest house to build is one you build yourself, if you have the time and ability. Unless you live close to the kit manufacturer, shipping adds a major cost as well.


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## texican (Oct 4, 2003)

Imho, kit houses limit you too much.

If you have no 'scrounging' skills, have a full time job, and no building genes, a kit house might be the ticket.

If you have scrounging skills, you can save tons. I've gotten everything except cement in scrounging sessions. Doors, windows, sinks, tubs, wire (some of it new, partial rolls), light fixtures, lumber of every size imaginable, nails, screws, tools, roofing material, etc., all for free or for minimal expense (tear down and haul off). I was a rookie when I built my first home, and ended up buying a lot of stuff. 20 years later, and I've accumulated quite a bit of material to build the next one, for next to nothing (outside of time).


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## rickfrosty (Jun 19, 2008)

dragonjaze said:


> wow, brand new forum, and it's already hopping  love it!
> 
> Has anybody built from a kit house? I've looked at soooooo many different kit houses, but still have yet to find a floor plan that really speaks to me. I know what I want in a house.
> 
> ...



See my thread here about 'stress-skin' kit (under my earth sheltered theme).
I was certainly happy w/it, & if your not much in the way of carpentry skills, these go up easily. Mine came w/a floor plan, but it was built around leaving room for a stairway to basement which I didn't have so I thew the plan away & laid out the walls myself - people seem to like it. This house was a ranch style.
Don't know if this is the kind of kit you had in mind, but these are super-insulated, no exterior frame to build. Stand up walls, cut holes for windows & doors (carefully - remember, measure 2ice, cut once !) then there's an electric tool that you burn styrofoam out of the way to stick in a 2 x 6 frame for each window or door.
I want to say that the strapping for the ceiling was included too.
I was a carpenter & builder by the way, & I will say that the log house kits are pretty hard to heat !


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## dragonjaze (Sep 8, 2010)

texican said:


> Imho, kit houses limit you too much.
> 
> If you have no 'scrounging' skills, have a full time job, and no building genes, a kit house might be the ticket.
> 
> If you have scrounging skills, you can save tons. I've gotten everything except cement in scrounging sessions. Doors, windows, sinks, tubs, wire (some of it new, partial rolls), light fixtures, lumber of every size imaginable, nails, screws, tools, roofing material, etc., all for free or for minimal expense (tear down and haul off). I was a rookie when I built my first home, and ended up buying a lot of stuff. 20 years later, and I've accumulated quite a bit of material to build the next one, for next to nothing (outside of time).


Texican, I am the queen of scavenging, and an embarrassment to the rest of my family on the city's "free trash haul week" 

This is really what I'm hoping to do, I just wanted to get some feedback on kit houses, too.


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## glenn amolenaar (Mar 3, 2007)

rickfrosty said:


> See my thread here about 'stress-skin' kit (under my earth sheltered theme).
> I was certainly happy w/it, & if your not much in the way of carpentry skills, these go up easily. Mine came w/a floor plan, but it was built around leaving room for a stairway to basement which I didn't have so I thew the plan away & laid out the walls myself - people seem to like it. This house was a ranch style.
> Don't know if this is the kind of kit you had in mind, but these are super-insulated, no exterior frame to build. Stand up walls, cut holes for windows & doors (carefully - remember, measure 2ice, cut once !) then there's an electric tool that you burn styrofoam out of the way to stick in a 2 x 6 frame for each window or door.
> I want to say that the strapping for the ceiling was included too.
> I was a carpenter & builder by the way, & I will say that the log house kits are pretty hard to heat !


Sorry you feel a log house kit is hard to heat. If it is hard to heat someone forgot to read and follow the detail drawings. Each course should be sealed. But that is not what the OP asked about.
Glenn


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## tiogacounty (Oct 27, 2005)

glenn amolenaar said:


> Sorry you feel a log house kit is hard to heat. If it is hard to heat someone forgot to read and follow the detail drawings. Each course should be sealed. But that is not what the OP asked about.
> Glenn


 There is a long, and really ugly history of a minority of manufacturer log home products being absolute scrap. Failure to properly design and manufacture a log home that is capable of maintaining a water and air sealer exterior envelope is hardly unknown. There have been articles written about it for decades, and countless specialty contractors that do nothing but repair these structures. This work can be as simple as installing tens of thousands of lineal feet of caulk to a structure that in leaking air like a screen door and is essentially unheatable, to replacing rotted logs due to defective design details. Comments like "sorry you feel....." really gloss over the truth. there are some great log homes out there. There are great manufacturers and builders. However, EVERYBODY in the industry is well aware of the dark underbelly of the industry as well. A lot of buyers of new and existing log homes have really been hurt in this game. Log homes that are defective due to poor design, manufacturing processes, or construction practices are far from unusual. I have repaired homes by some of the best know names in the industry, and have seen everything from severe rot to extreme settling and insect infestation. all attributable to sub standard design, manufacturing and product quality.


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## glenn amolenaar (Mar 3, 2007)

tiogacounty said:


> There is a long, and really ugly history of a minority of manufacturer log home products being absolute scrap. Failure to properly design and manufacture a log home that is capable of maintaining a water and air sealer exterior envelope is hardly unknown. There have been articles written about it for decades, and countless specialty contractors that do nothing but repair these structures. This work can be as simple as installing tens of thousands of lineal feet of caulk to a structure that in leaking air like a screen door and is essentially unheatable, to replacing rotted logs due to defective design details. Comments like "sorry you feel....." really gloss over the truth. there are some great log homes out there. There are great manufacturers and builders. However, EVERYBODY in the industry is well aware of the dark underbelly of the industry as well. A lot of buyers of new and existing log homes have really been hurt in this game. Log homes that are defective due to poor design, manufacturing processes, or construction practices are far from unusual. I have repaired homes by some of the best know names in the industry, and have seen everything from severe rot to extreme settling and insect infestation. all attributable to sub standard design, manufacturing and product quality.


I did not want to take the OP from kit home question to loghome problems, I feel 90% of kit homes are a rip-off stick or log it does not matter. But the loghome is not at fault I said it is a LACK of someone or something in the assembly or design dept. I hate to see a post saying loghomes are hard to heat when the average joe was blind to what he purchased or was hi-pressured into a good deal (used car sales).
Glenn


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## tiogacounty (Oct 27, 2005)

Glenn, your points are valid, especially the grossly excessive "salesman" mentality that a lot of the alternative building and kit home industry seems to need to market their goods. With the possible exception of something like a fully CAD/CAM manufactured SIPS panel shell, I think most kits are a waste of a potential homeowner's most valuable asset, money.
As for anybody looking at a log home kit. It is a minefield. You had better educate yourself as to what makes a quality product and have a working knowledge of all the issues from settling, shrinkage, water and air infiltration issues, R-value and current code requirements, and the value of the "package" VS. the real value of the goods provided. 
When buying an existing log home, I would find an expert in the log industry to do the home inspection. Even if it costs several times what a typical home inspection costs. I have encountered far too many home inspectors that were of very little value when assessing a stick house, I can't imagine placing much credibility on their review of a log home.


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## glenn amolenaar (Mar 3, 2007)

tiogacounty said:


> Glenn, your points are valid, especially the grossly excessive "salesman" mentality that a lot of the alternative building and kit home industry seems to need to market their goods. With the possible exception of something like a fully CAD/CAM manufactured SIPS panel shell, I think most kits are a waste of a potential homeowner's most valuable asset, money.
> As for anybody looking at a log home kit. It is a minefield. You had better educate yourself as to what makes a quality product and have a working knowledge of all the issues from settling, shrinkage, water and air infiltration issues, R-value and current code requirements, and the value of the "package" VS. the real value of the goods provided.
> When buying an existing log home, I would find an expert in the log industry to do the home inspection. Even if it costs several times what a typical home inspection costs. I have encountered far too many home inspectors that were of very little value when assessing a stick house, I can't imagine placing much credibility on their review of a log home.


You hit the nail on the head. My feelings to.
Thanks Glenn


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## rickfrosty (Jun 19, 2008)

glenn amolenaar said:


> Sorry you feel a log house kit is hard to heat. If it is hard to heat someone forgot to read and follow the detail drawings. Each course should be sealed. But that is not what the OP asked about.
> Glenn[/QUOTE
> Sorry if I insulted your house ? I spoke from experience up here where the winter is longish & cold.
> The log kits aren't usually thick logs to provide much thermal mass.
> The true log house I built & sold in 2005 had logs where the butts were 16 in., now that was fairly warm. It was chinked w/a product called 'Perma-*****' which stays adhered to the logs as they expand or contract - great stuff (once you get good at applying it ).


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## willow_girl (Dec 7, 2002)

The house DH#2 and I built was a kit house from Big L Lumber Co. in Sheridan, MI. It was helpful to me to be able to walk through the models on the lot ... I have a hard time visualizing from floor plans!

Nothing was prefabricated; the "kit" merely included a precalculated amount of lumber, siding, shingles, etc., to rough in the structure. We upgraded all the windows to Andersens, added 4 ft. on to one end of the house, a covered porch across the front and dormers on the 2nd floor. Built all our own cabinetry and made all the wood trim except for spindles. Starting with the foundation already in place, it took us 9 months from soup to nuts. (We did end up hiring the drywall hung and finished at the end, as we were TIRED!)

Five years later, the house appraised for nearly 3x the amount we'd borrowed to built it.

All in all, it was a good experience!


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## Drizler (Jun 16, 2002)

dragonjaze said:


> wow, brand new forum, and it's already hopping  love it!
> 
> Has anybody built from a kit house? I've looked at soooooo many different kit houses, but still have yet to find a floor plan that really speaks to me. I know what I want in a house.
> 
> ...


Just a thought along that line what about a modular? We have had one for 16 years and it is just like any regular house aside from a slight difference in the roof trusses. You can get the basic designs fairly cheap and then build on it from there. Around here log homes seem to have just stopped happening at all the last 10 years or so.


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## glenn amolenaar (Mar 3, 2007)

rickfrosty,
You did not insult me or my home but it is the building correctly that makes the difference. But so many "KIT" companies cheapen the product throw together a material list and usually low quality materials and market it to the guy who can least afford to waste his money.
Stick bilt,SIP's,Logs it makes no difference you need to cut, insulate, assemble, seal correctly or you are asking for problems. I would never tell someone to buy a kit. If you are healthy and can read and most importantly have a desire to build your own home you most likely can do it. BUT YOU MUST DO YOUR HOMEWORK which means check what others have done, the web is a great tool to help on this.
If you really want to save money DIY, do not buy a kit there are plans to build with most any material, it is not difficult just takes time.
Glenn


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## tiogacounty (Oct 27, 2005)

willow_girl said:


> The house DH#2 and I built was a kit house from Big L Lumber Co. in Sheridan, MI. It was helpful to me to be able to walk through the models on the lot ... I have a hard time visualizing from floor plans!
> 
> Nothing was prefabricated; the "kit" merely included a precalculated amount of lumber, siding, shingles, etc., to rough in the structure. We upgraded all the windows to Andersens, added 4 ft. on to one end of the house, a covered porch across the front and dormers on the 2nd floor. Built all our own cabinetry and made all the wood trim except for spindles. Starting with the foundation already in place, it took us 9 months from soup to nuts. (We did end up hiring the drywall hung and finished at the end, as we were TIRED!)
> 
> ...


One of the regional lumber yards, that I do a limited amount of business with, still has a program to do this type of "kit house". The company, you ask....? Well, I really don't want to give them any props. for two reasons. They are THE low cost leader for local builders for one big reason. They move a large volume of really low quality lumber. Second, I know one of their former managers really well. He is pretty plain spoken and will freely admit that the customer gets the short end of this deal all the way. Overpriced products, mediocre outdated designs and less than impressive material. A competent draftsman should be able to provide a full set prints and "take-offs" listing all material required, and save a bundle over buying a kit.


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## JUllom (Dec 13, 2009)

Any experiences or thoughts with FirstDay Cottages? They seem to be well done from my initial research, I'd love to hear about their "kits" and someone with experience in one?


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## Wisconsin Ann (Feb 27, 2007)

I just wanted to add an observation about 2 types of "kit" homes. 

The first: The small garage/house kits you can get or order from places like Home Depot, or Menard's. They come with all the basic parts for the structure, but you need to figure out what is what and label the boxes or steel or wood bundles with Marker or something you can't miss. Or just be really organized, I suppose. You also need to be fairly good at reading directions and blueprints. BUT...they'll end up solid, and a decent place. Maybe not as fast or as GREAT as a custom built place, but you can save bundles of money if you're good at building things.

Second: Log homes. I lived in one while in Issaquah, WA. (near Seattle). I don't care WHAT I did, that house was cold. Big fire place in the livingroom, and a floor vent system of gas heat throughout. After talking with a few people who've lived in log homes I've heard pretty much the same story. Pretty to live in and look at...but cold.


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## glenn amolenaar (Mar 3, 2007)

WisconsinAnn,
Loghomes, people blame the loghome on being hard to heat it is not the log part that is problem. 

A fireplace is not a good heat source unless you have a insert the heat goes up chimney and pulls warm air from home.

Logs are no good just stacked they must be cut/machined and sealed, securely fastened with bolts or a fastner that will allow for settling.
The windows and doors must be more than off the shelf big box store quality, also installed and sealed correctly.

Building a log home takes knowledge not just a slap together job.

The coldest homes I ever lived in were in Illinois, old two story farm homes, little or no insulation, windows that could not be sealed to stop air flow. To compare this old type of home building with the new building tech of today may help people understand why a loghome build without proper techniques is hard to heat/cool.

Yes I live in a loghome and have built them. I have a log garage that when finished wil be warm and comfortable with a living area. I just get upset when people complain about loghomes being hard to heat.
Glenn


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