# American Chinchillas



## bowbuild (Aug 2, 2008)

So, here is my SITUATION.... I have papered purebred AM chins for which I am quite found of. I started my breeding program 4 yrs ago, or so. I had a doe that was papered, with perfect rings, and had been bred several times with no color variations.....then she through out a black doe, and a REW male. I was shocked ...yet very intrigued. I waited till both the offspring were of breeding age, and bred them together.......result was half REW, half a off grey. I next waited till the litter matured of the REW offspring, and bred back to their father that was the original REW, and now have pure REWS. I have since added another male, and female of the offspring to the line up with NO color variety other than REW. I have 4 REW females all of which DO NOT THROW any thing but REWS. This is soon to head into the third yr of inbreeding with some interesting results....


1. For whatever reason these REW have larger livers than those of AM chins at the same size.
2. The hides on the REW are tough as heck.
3. Mothers seem more protective of their off spring than comparable AM chins. These mothers will literally strip ALL the hair from their neck at nesting time....I mean bald! Shocking the first time I seen it......believe me, no lack of comfy fur for babies.
4. Litter size is average 8-11.
5. you can auctually see the blood running through their nails their nails are clear no pigment.
6. I have one of my REW's at a tractor supply stores as a store front pet, that was taken to a local fair, and won several awards as a flemish......Since I had no idea he was there till after the fact I sure got a laugh.


So, with all I have written what are AM chins "base" breed how were they developed, and why the black/REW throwback???


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## tbishop (Nov 24, 2004)

Someone bred something REW in at some point in it's history. That REW must have had self colors (black, maybe blue from the way you describe the second gen litter). When you breed REW to REW all you will ever get is REW from there on out. Nothing else can show through unless you re-introduce an alternate color.

Tim B.


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## rabbitgeek (Mar 22, 2008)

The American Chinchilla was selectively bred from the Standard Chinchilla rabbit, which was imported from Europe.
http://albc-usa.org/cpl/americanchinchilla.html

Having said that, because of the rarity of the American Chinchilla, people have crossed them to other meat breeds like the New Zealand, which includes the genes for Black, REW, and whatever color is hiding under the REW coat.

Cull the unwanted colors and keep the chinchilla coats.

With rare breeds, we often have to made do with what we can get our hands on, hoping there is enough genetics in the rabbits at hand to produce what we need.

Have a good day!
Franco Rios


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## akane (Jul 19, 2011)

Chinchilla rabbits go waaaaay back and the american chins were bred for larger size originally without crossing anything so you should not get any other colors. There should be no throwbacks in pure chins. Only chinchilla coloring. Most likely someone threw in some New Zealand or something of similar body type with full color and rew genes just off your pedigrees. If your chins place as flemish either your local show was severely lacking in quality or your chins aren't quite the right body type which may point to something else besides a standard meat breed being crossed in to them. Those recessives can hang around for a long time. I've gotten plenty of surprises and have a creme d'argent that I know is not 100% creme d'argent because of what colors a cross to a self rabbit produced. If you want to breed the odd colored rabbits they of course won't harm any production for meat or pelt (unless your aim was chin colored pelts) but they aren't worth much as am chin breeding stock to most if any chin breeders and worthless for shows unless you enter them as something else.


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## Honorine (Feb 27, 2006)

With rare breeds its very common to cross in another breed to enlarge the gene pool and improve type. NZ whites have been used to improve many other breeds and as a result of such REW pops up in many breeds where it does not belong, such as Harlequins. Someone I knew got REW's in a Silver litter, much to her horror. Both REW and the Self gene are recessives, both parents must carry it to produce it, so yes somewhere some other breed was crossed it, it could have been 10 generations ago, as REW in particular is tenacious, I call it the gene that never dies, just keeps showing up. Your black is probably not a black, it should be a seal/self chin, and of course under that white coat those REW are chinchilla based. In your place I'd do test breedings on all of my AM Chins, see who carries REW, and eliminate them from my AM Chin program, you could also test breed for self, and eliminate those as well, until you had just pure for chin rabbits. Thats what I would do. Rabbits are very plastic genetically, and many consider them to be 'purebred' again once the outcross is off of the pedigree. I mean your first cross is 50%, second is 75%, third is 87%, and fourth is mighty close to 100%, if you keep crossing your outcrosses back to purebreds. As for the differences with your REW line, I think you've fixed traits by inbreeding without meaning to, as you took close relatives and bred them. So your original rabbits had big livers, tough skin, were excellant mothers, and were mandolin in type as opposed to commercial, so thats what you got because of the inbreeding. Its easy to fix traits by inbreeding, hard to change them, as tight inbreeding can make a rabbit prepotent for those traits.


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## Countrygent51 (Jul 30, 2011)

I've never had the opportunity to raise them, but American Chinchillas sure are a beautiful rabbit. The nice thing about purebred show rabbits, as I'm sure you know better than me, they have to meet a very exacting standard on the judging table. It may not prevent crossbreeding but it doesn't necessarily give anybody an advantage if the offspring look like Heinz 57 specials. The person who maintains the true breed standards should win in the end, and is doing the world a service by maintaining an important breed. Best of luck with your venture!


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## Honorine (Feb 27, 2006)

Rabbits are shown by phenotype, not genotype, meaning that they are shown by what they look like, not what they are genetically. They are also very plastic genetically, its takes very few generations to return to breed type, depending on what that breed type is, and of course if you know what your doing. For instance, say I have Harlequins, which are notorious for lousy conformation. So I get myself a nice red New Zealand buck, and I breed all my Harlequin does to it. Well, what am I going to get? I'm going to get all japanese harlequins, because harlequin is dominant over non-extension- ie 'red'. Say by some miracle one of them has decent markings(first cross seldom does) and improved conformation due to the exceptional body type of their sire, I can show that rabbit as a Harlequin, and possibly beat rabbits that are not outcrosses, ie 'purebreds'. Then of course there is the big problem with the rare breeds, their are so few of them, and many of them have been 'recreated'. For instance, American Sables. At one point there was only 6 or 7 left in existence. All of them were bucks, literally, all bucks. So the breed was recreated using Californians and other breeds, and they still exist today. Some breeds are well known for certain faults that plague most of the breed and you can't breed it out because its so widespread. What to do? Breed it out using breeds that do not have that fault. Granted there are two schools of thought, one with the purebred purists and color nazi's, they normally hang with those who need a judge to tell them if their rabbit is any good, and then the second group are the lets see what I can do with this and see what I get folks, who may just have enough understanding of genetics to be dangerous. American Chinchillas were number 12 on the rare breeds list in 2009, they were number six in 2007, can't wait to see where they end up in 2011. Right now very active outcrosses are occuring in Blanc de Hotots to both increase the gene pool, improve type and restore correct fur type. I could go on and on. Its common, its done a lot and its not a big deal, just work with what you have, cull hard and breed towards the standard. Good Luck.


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## rabbitgeek (Mar 22, 2008)

The last Rare Breed List was updated in 2010
http://www.rabbitgeek.com/rarelist.html

Our list features the least active of the ARBA recognized rabbit breeds
to focus attention on these breeds. Some are in danger of disappearing
altogether. Here it is.

Here is the short version
#1 is most rare, #16 is less rare

2010 Rare Breed Rabbit Rank
1 Blanc de Hotot
2 Giant Angora
3 Cinnamon
4 Beveren
5 American
6 Satin Angora
7 Giant Chinchilla
8 Lilac
9 Silver
10 American Sable
11 Belgian Hare
12 American Chinchilla
13 Rhinelander
14 Creme d'Argent
15 Silver Fox
16 Palomino

Note: Standard Chinchilla was #16, is now #17 and is off the list.
Palomino has joined the Rare Breed List. 

Have a good day!
Franco Rios


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## arachyd (Feb 1, 2009)

I'm curious as to growth rate and litter weights. If your rabbit does fit the type for Flemish but grows faster I'm sure there are a lot of meat breeders who'd be very interested in your rabbits.


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## Countrygent51 (Jul 30, 2011)

Honorine, your explanation and example is really good. I think we agree, especially given that list of rare and endangered breeds on Franco's list. My point is that in rabbits you don't get an unfair advantage by outcrossing as happens all too often with other kinds of livestock. If you use a NZ Red to improve a Harlequin, the end result still has to look like a Harlequin on the show table or it gets bounced. A qualified ARBA judge would not say "well, this one is twice as big as the normal Harlie, doesn't have the right markings, but it is the same shape and size as one of the current popular breeds so first prize!" That kind of thong happens with sheep, hogs and cattle all the time which is where crossbreeding tends to hurt breeds more than help in my opinion because there is no consistent breed comparison that exhibitors are held to. Take a look at photos of Shropshire sheep from the 1940s, 1970s, and today. They look completely different in each era. Crossbreeding in that case changes the breed fundamentally since they just toss out the standard and choose the biggest one or whatever criteria is popular at the moment. Not the case with rabbits and poultry as far as I know?


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## Millroad (Oct 15, 2010)

We bought one Palomino doe and buck as our foundation stock. We would have acquired another doe (and are actively looking for one now), but they are not that easy to find around here and they are all related, which is part of our problem. We realized that they both carried an REW gene when we got a few REW kits in our first two litters.

Interestingly, these rabbits have been winning big at the shows (the doe before we bred her) when the kids show them in the open class. Best of breed, best of opposite, and the buck just won Best of Breed and Reserve Grand Champion (!) at the county fair. Makes me wonder if that recessive gene confers some kind of benefit!

We'll keep these rabbits and continue to breed them - we mainly use them as meat rabbits - we'll continue to let the kids show them and their offspring, and it is too bad that we can't sell the kits as show rabbits since their parents have done well. I know I could indicate on the pedigree that they potentially carry the REW gene, but I wouldn't feel good about doing that to the Palomino breeding gene pool.


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