# Weapon recommendation needed for **** control



## meganwf (Jul 5, 2005)

We left our little homestead for two weeks for a big family event across the country. Kept the chickens under lock and key but lost 3 guineas to raccoons and tonight killed three of raccoons with what we had at hand: a high-powered pellet gun. It took a long time. What should we get instead? Kid-safety-lock info needed as well. Thanks!


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## TnTnTn (Dec 23, 2004)

Well any and every 'homesteader' ought to have probably 4 or 5 firearms
1. 12 or 20 gauge shotgun-pump or single shot depending on your tastes and budget
2. .22 rifle bolt action or quality semiauto
3. high power rifle for big game lever, bolt, or single shot 30-30, .308, 30/06 etc
4. centerfire varmint rifle bolt or single shot .223 probably the best
5. .22 semiauto pistol like the Ruger-best for the money
The above order is how I would buy if I didn't have any firearms. These can cover most any situation likely on a homestead. And they can overlap with their versatility.
TnTnTn


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## Bear (Jan 25, 2005)

I would suggest a 22 or better yet a 22 mag. I have a Ruger 22 mag and does a good job on the local varmits. I see your in PA. also. I got gun locks for free at the local police station.


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## CGUARDSMAN (Dec 28, 2006)

10/22 .22 will do the job on *****


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## Cabin Fever (May 10, 2002)

Unless you get a good solid head shot, it seems like those big ol' fat ***** just absorb .22 bullets and run away. I perfer a 12 gauge with 00 or 0000 buckshot.


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## Bear (Jan 25, 2005)

If you use hollow points, they aren't going to go too far, espically in the 22 mag!


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## MELOC (Sep 26, 2005)

i like the .22/.410 over-under.


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## Philbee (Jul 5, 2004)

New hand guns come with locking devices built in. They have a "Key-like" device (kind of like a allen-key) and they also come with a padlock. 

Philbee


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## DaleK (Sep 23, 2004)

Don't forget the live traps, sardines and barrel of water for next time.


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## DavidUnderwood (Jul 5, 2007)

If you aint used to shooting a rifle,
get a shot gun first. #4 or #6 shot
will kill most anything you need to without
doing too much damage to property.
A stray buck shot will go thru a wall
or your car same as a rifle bullet.
This winter get a local trapper to thin
out your predators for you. In the winter
the hides have a little value. You get the
service you need, and someone else
benefits, as well. (and the **** aint wasted)


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## DavidUnderwood (Jul 5, 2007)

About those locks..............
A gun is no danger without ammo.
Unload the gun. Lock away the ammo.


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## hunter63 (Jan 4, 2005)

Cabin Fever said:


> Unless you get a good solid head shot, it seems like those big ol' fat ***** just absorb .22 bullets and run away. I perfer a 12 gauge with 00 or 0000 buckshot.


LOL,
That reminds me of a a guy at work, asked me if I had any "buck shot", thought he would ask me, as he knew "I shoot".
Said it was for raccoons, so I gave he a couple of shells.

He didn't say any thing for a week or so, so I ask him how it went with the raccoons?

He said "Well, I'll never do that again"!

"Raccoon came up on the deck, after the bird feeders, I was waiting for him, slid the patio door open ever so slightly, and let him have it!"

"Killed him deader than snot, but blew a hole in my plastic storage can, shot holes in the pool, and garage siding"

"Neighbors called the cops, they came, chewed my but, and took away the other shell, but thanks for asking."

Shooting rule, "Be sure of your target and beyond".


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## wogglebug (May 22, 2004)

I note you're in Pennsylvania.

I'm coming to the conclusion that what you've got - a high-power air-rifle - should be one of the first self-sufficiency firearms. That you used it successfully for despatching raccoons proves the point. It's good for anything less, as well, if you're a good enough hunter to stalk close enough. It's not just for hunting rabbit, pigeons, squirrels, woodchuck and any other small game though. It's also a marvellous and cheap tool for honing your shooting skills. Practice, practice, practice - then a little more practice with the more-expensive *FIRE*arms.

***** go up, as I understand it (not my part of the world, but I can do research, plus I've been reading voraciously since I was 5 or 6). You don't want to go shooting upward with anything that will go a long way (and that includes .22 rimfire), because it WILL go a long way. That means if you've treed a **** on your "little homestead", then your air-rifle or a shotgun is about all you _should_ use.

I had heard about some strange restrictions in some parts of your New England area, so I did some searching on Pennsylvania game and hunting. Self-loading firearms are _*not*_ legal for hunting (unless you've got a special disabled licence). Nor is your air-rifle on game animals (which does not include raccoons). If you want to keep your options open, then single-shot, bolt-action, pump or lever-action are probably what you should stick to.

In general, if I wasn't real interested in hunting, I'd go with your air-rifle, and a stack-barrel (single shot each) .22 or .22 Magnum over a shotgun barrel - best bigger than a .410 - a 20 gauge is a nice size that won't knock a little person base-over-apex, but can shoot slugs or buckshot that _will_ knock a bear base over apex if required.

If you wanted to go beyond that, I'd get a .22 rimfire (much cheaper ammo than the .22 Magnum (also referred to as .22 Winchester rimfire Magnum or .22WRM)). It throws a MUCH larger lump of lead at a somewhat faster velocity than does your air-rifle. I'd then get a multi-shot shotgun in 12 or 20-gauge. It could be an auto (uses some of the recoil to load the next shot, so the recoil is tamed a little), a pump, or a double-barrel over-and-under (O&U) or side-by-side (SxS). Note that the 12-gauge is much more common and there's a lot more choice in ammo; the 20-gauge is easier to shoot and surprisingly close to the 12-gauge in capability. There's a 16-gauge which would make sense except that the 20 is so close to the 12 that the middle has been been squeezed out, and accordingly is costly and has few choices.

Others would reverse the order of the shotgun and .22 acquisition.

Beyond that - well, if your little patch of heaven is small enough, you might get something like a swap-cylinder Ruger Single-Six pistol in .22LR and .22WRM. You might even be able to substitute that for the .22 long-arm I mentioned.

Then someone mentioned two other centrefire long-arms - a .30 calibre, and a high-velocity .22 - say a .223. Both have their value. .308 is the up-market civilian brother of the 7.62x51mm NATO, and the .223 is the the civilian version of the 5.56m NATO. There are some potential advantages to being able to fire military ammo. Given my choice, I'd go for the .243 Winchester, which falls in the middle of both, and can be reloaded from empty .308 brass. However, we're talking philosophies here. There's also the fact that I'd never want to fight a grizzly, or down a moose, with a .243. Could be done, but not an option I'd ever choose.

*Added later.* I did some extra looking. So should you. There's some really ODD things in your hunting laws, and some of them contradict others. Particularly with regard to centrefire rifles. you should talk to your local authorities, and ask THEM what is legal or not. Admit nothing - just say you've got a little place, and you want to know what you could do legally in the future.


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## Va. goatman (May 12, 2006)

It's really hard to beat a shotgun though I mostly use a .22 revolver just easier to carry but I been shooting handguns a long time I like a shotgun at night I use an old H+R 410 and have killed a truckload of varmints over the years


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## meganwf (Jul 5, 2005)

WOW. Now that is a lot of information to digest. Thanks so much for all the help. I'll put all the information through the digester and see what filters out. We are also next to a state park so that might effect things too. We have had no luck with traps but I'll keep researching. Thanks again!


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## Paquebot (May 10, 2002)

meganwf said:


> WOW. Now that is a lot of information to digest. Thanks so much for all the help. I'll put all the information through the digester and see what filters out. We are also next to a state park so that might effect things too. We have had no luck with traps but I'll keep researching. Thanks again!


You'll get too much indigestion from all of the above. Just get a single-shot .22 rifle and use hollow-point LRs. Any semi-auto uses too much power operate the mechanism. Fine for squirrels but not ****. Also, best to tree the ****. Get in position where you see a white triangle formed by the jaw and throat. Aim for the center of that triangle and you'll hit the center of the brain. One shot is all that's needed. Did that for years with a Remington Model 514.

Martin


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

> Any semi-auto uses too much power operate the mechanism.


Semi auto 22's are recoil operated, and you lose NO velocity at all.
If your theory were correct, you wouldnt be able to kill anything at all with a revolver, since it loses FAR more gas pressure than any semi auto.
Advice is good *IF* its *factual*


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## Ernie (Jul 22, 2007)

I use an old Mauser 8mm for **** control sometimes. It's for when I see them out in the orchard or along the fenceline and need to "reach out and touch someone". Up close around 50 yards or so I grab a 12 gauge.


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## Paquebot (May 10, 2002)

Bearfootfarm said:


> Semi auto 22's are recoil operated, and you lose NO velocity at all.
> If your theory were correct, you wouldnt be able to kill anything at all with a revolver, since it loses FAR more gas pressure than any semi auto.
> Advice is good *IF* its *factual*


Snipers and other long-range target shooters always use bolt actions because every ounce of energy is used to propel the bullet.

Somewhere I've seen charts with trajectory figures for various models and types of rifles and they showed that my 514 would send a LR out further and straighter than my 550-1. The 550-1 was a great squirrel rifle but lacked killing power for ****. Ended up swapping it for a dog that was almost as useless!

Also, a revolver's mechanical action is supplied by the hand of the shooter, not from the propellant. 

Martin


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## EDDIE BUCK (Jul 17, 2005)

Paquebot said:


> You'll get too much indigestion from all of the above. Just get a single-shot .22 rifle and use hollow-point LRs. Any semi-auto uses too much power operate the mechanism. Fine for squirrels but not ****. Also, best to tree the ****. Get in position where you see a white triangle formed by the jaw and throat. Aim for the center of that triangle and you'll hit the center of the brain. One shot is all that's needed. Did that for years with a Remington Model 514.
> 
> Martin


 Sometimes when you have young dogs just starting out that need a little hands on experience, you make the shot a lot farther back lol :gromit: This one sure is lively, Eddie


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## mtman (Sep 2, 2004)

MELOC said:


> i like the .22/.410 over-under.


thats what i use my ol savage and yes its a model 24


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

> *Snipers and other long-range target shooters always use bolt actions *because every ounce of energy is used to propel the bullet.


They *mostly* use bolt actions for ACCURACY. It has nothing to do with the internal ballistics. And for years, the Army used M14's and XM 21's as Sniper rifles. They are both gas operated semi autos. They are also used in 1000 yd competition shooting



> Also, a revolver's mechanical action is supplied by the hand of the shooter, not from the propellant.


I realize that, but your theory was that the semi auto action is somehow robbing power from the bullet, when in fact it does not. The breech block on a semi auto 22 doesnt open until the bullet has left the barrel, and all the pressure has dropped

A revolver loses a LOT of pressure from the cylinder gap, so if loss of pressure made any huge difference, revolvers would be pretty useless.

You may have seen some "chart" but it wasnt comparing *just* the velocity difference in a 22 lr bolt gun and a 22 lr semi auto, since there IS NO MEASUREABLE DIFFERENCE if you use the same load and barrel length


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## Paquebot (May 10, 2002)

Bearfootfarm said:


> You may have seen some "chart" but it wasnt comparing *just* the velocity difference in a 22 lr bolt gun and a 22 lr semi auto, since there IS NO MEASUREABLE DIFFERENCE if you use the same load and barrel length


You're close, it's same load, same barrel lenth, and same action. Ballistic numbers for any bullet are determined by using rifle length test barrels with bolt action and zero pressure loss. That determines maximum potential velocity. Any mechanism which operates off the bullet's recoil is using some of that bullet's power to do it. As the mechanism becomes worn, more and more of the pressure is being lost, the muzzle fps drops severely. I thought that everyone knew that. 

The comparison of various rimfire and varmit rifles has been covered many times in the MRA magazines. Haven't seen one lately so another is about due. Don't know how far back they go in their archives but the info is probably there. 

Martin


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## quietstar (Dec 11, 2002)

Martin is pretty well right-on with my experience. Close-up, reliable killing of ***** can be done with a .22 short in the brain. These Texas ***** may be dumb, but when they are 20' above ground in a tree, they seem to feel pretty safe. I use a good accurate Remington auto that will digest shorts, longs, or long rifle ammo. The scope gives me a good look with the red light from my Petzl headlight. The **** doesn't see red and realize he is lit up and usually settles down for a killing shot. 

Consideration for neighbors after bedtime is a good thing, but I confess to finding pleasure in making a difficult shot with a good rifle. If you will handload for your centerfire and choose proper bullets, they are fun to use at the longer ranges. I can load my little .222Rem down to about .22Hornet levels and it costs less to shoot than the .22 Rimfire Magnum...Glen


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## Cabin Fever (May 10, 2002)

You guys can argue over the use of .22s, but the little ol' rimfire would rarely we useful for us. Our ***** are so alert, and the woods are so close to the yard, that I have only one or two seconds to get a shot off before he's gone into the forest. They can hear me cracking the door or window open and are immediately on the run! They don;t "tree"...they just run into the thick woods which is usually 50 or so feet from where we see them in the yard. I'm a pretty good shot at stationary targets with a .22, but I'll stick with by shotgun and buckshot for these running *****.


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## Ernie (Jul 22, 2007)

When I started out the ***** were fat, insolent critters who wouldn't even run when you opened up the back door with a shotgun pointed at them. Over the last winter those ***** were piled up in the back pasture for the coyotes. What I've got left is apparently Cabin Fever's brand of **** ... the wary, wily ones who run if they hear the slightest noise. They don't come around the chicken coop so often anymore and I rarely see their tracks where I used to.

In time you clean out the ones who have lost their fear of man, and then you need something with a little more oomph, like a shotgun, unless you've got plenty of cover and all night to spend hiding in the bushes waiting on them to show (which I don't).


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## Paquebot (May 10, 2002)

BUT, what we need to do is suggest a weapon for Megan which will:
1) Not cost an arm and a leg.
2) Not require a lot of shopping.
3) Be simple to operate in the dark.
4) Be able to do the job. 

All of the above are accomplished with a .22 single rifle and LR ammo.

Martin


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## Madsaw (Feb 26, 2008)

meganwf said:


> We left our little homestead for two weeks for a big family event across the country. Kept the chickens under lock and key but lost 3 guineas to raccoons and tonight killed three of raccoons with what we had at hand: a high-powered pellet gun. It took a long time. What should we get instead? Kid-safety-lock info needed as well. Thanks!


Quick most versitile firearm for a farm is a 20 gauge pump shotgun. Could go with a single shot but they tend to kick a bit more. With a pump the action can be left open and a cable type gun lock can be ran through the action.
You can use birdshoot(6,7 1/2,8) in cheap traget loads or you can get buck shot for bigger critters. Also you can get slugs too. Here in wisconsin we use them in my area to hunt deer. Just find a a mossberg model 500 and your all set.
Bob


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## Cabin Fever (May 10, 2002)

Paquebot said:


> BUT, what we need to do is suggest a weapon for Megan which will:
> 1) Not cost an arm and a leg.
> 2) Not require a lot of shopping.
> 3) Be simple to operate in the dark.
> ...


Martin, I would agree with your recommendation if the dern varmits would just sit still and pose while I put a bead on them. "Say cheese!" The ones around my place are "off to the races" before I can even get the rifle butt to my shoulder. If Megan has those kind of critters, my recommendation is a shotgun.


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## Paquebot (May 10, 2002)

Cabin Fever said:


> Martin, I would agree with your recommendation if the dern varmits would just sit still and pose while I put a bead on them. "Say cheese!" The ones around my place are "off to the races" before I can even get the rifle butt to my shoulder. If Megan has those kind of critters, my recommendation is a shotgun.


And I believe that we've already heard what happens with the shotgun pellets which don't hit the target! For certain, I wouldn't want to be around someone taking wild running shots at a ****, at night, and with a shotgun or any weapon. May as well recommend an Uzi and just keep firing until the critter is dead from a stray shot or a building falling on it!

Martin


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## Ernie (Jul 22, 2007)

An Uzi is a far cry from a shotgun, Martin. C'mon, we're expecting that the user will exercise some good judgement and NOT fire towards anything that can be damaged by the shot. Even with a rifle I wouldn't take a shot at a raccoon standing up against a neighbor's house, or on the hood of my car.


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## Paquebot (May 10, 2002)

Ernie said:


> An Uzi is a far cry from a shotgun, Martin. C'mon, we're expecting that the user will exercise some good judgement and NOT fire towards anything that can be damaged by the shot. Even with a rifle I wouldn't take a shot at a raccoon standing up against a neighbor's house, or on the hood of my car.


Ernie, your **** are standing, Cabin Fever's are running. 

Martin


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## Cabin Fever (May 10, 2002)

Marty, our nearest neighbor is 1/2 mile away. I might hit a pine tree with a deflected buckshot pellet. 

And for the record, I have never taken "a wild shot" at anything in my life.


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## Paquebot (May 10, 2002)

Cabin Fever said:


> Marty, our nearest neighbor is 1/2 mile away. I might hit a pine tree with a deflected buckshot pellet.
> 
> And for the record, I have never taken "a wild shot" at anything in my life.


For you, a 12 gauge pump would work just fine, maybe a Maverick 88. You could always use it for turkeys when not blasting ****. 

For a lady, 20 gauge pump such as Remington 870 would take a lot of the aiming out of the equation. Point in the general direction while firing from the hip and something's bound to be hit!

Martin


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## Cabin Fever (May 10, 2002)

Paquebot said:


> For you, a 12 gauge pump would work just fine, maybe a Maverick 88. You could always use it for turkeys when not blasting ****.


Ya think? Geez I already have three shotguns (four if you count the .410 barrel for my Thompson Contender handgun). WIHH would shoot me if I came home with another one. 

Turkeys are easy! I just wish my scatterguns would do a better job at hitting ruffed grouse and woodcock!


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## Paquebot (May 10, 2002)

Cabin Fever said:


> Ya think? Geez I already have three shotguns (four if you count the .410 barrel for my Thompson Contender handgun). WIHH would shoot me if I came home with another one.
> 
> Turkeys are easy! I just wish my scatterguns would do a better job at hitting ruffed grouse and woodcock!


If you aren't able to stop a **** with the arsenal that you already have, I doubt if much advice here is going to be of any help to you! Practice, practice, practice!

Martin


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

> You're close, it's same load, same barrel lenth, and same action. Ballistic numbers for any bullet are determined by using rifle length test barrels with bolt action and zero pressure loss. That determines maximum potential velocity. *Any mechanism which operates off the bullet's recoil is using some of that bullet's power to do it.* As the mechanism becomes worn, more and more of the pressure is being lost, the muzzle fps drops severely. I thought that everyone knew that.
> 
> The comparison of various rimfire and varmit rifles has been covered many times in the MRA magazines. Haven't seen one lately so another is about due. Don't know how far back they go in their archives but the info is probably there.


There's an "equal and opposite reaction" to EVERY force. 
A bolt action has the same amount of recoil as a semi auto. 
It makes NO DIFFERENCE if that force is used to operate the action, or if it simply moves the gun.

NEITHER of those thing affects bullet speed, and no matter how often you reword it, your theory still wont be true


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## Paquebot (May 10, 2002)

Bearfootfarm said:


> There's an "equal and opposite reaction" to EVERY force.
> A bolt action has the same amount of recoil as a semi auto.
> It makes NO DIFFERENCE if that force is used to operate the action, or if it simply moves the gun.
> 
> NEITHER of those thing affects bullet speed, and no matter how often you reword it, your theory still wont be true


The little thing about accuracy/inaccuracy is due to variances in muzzle speed. For example, the 10/22 may vary as much as 100 fps in the same series of shots. There is no such variation in bolt action barrels.

Martin


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## quietstar (Dec 11, 2002)

Seems like a lot of folks are trying to protect the homestead without a good friend and helper. Even at some distance from the back door, a good Feist dog will detect a **** and put it up a handy tree before barking treed so you know it's time to do your part. I have 22 acres, but try not to run loud tools or equipment after bedtime. I also don't need my 3.5 in. 12ga magnum to kill a 24 lb. **** and disturb my sleeping neighbors. 

I find it interesting that professional hit men for crime organizations have begun using the .22 rimfire to deal with large, armed male targets. Seems they also know that deliberate shot placment of a 40 grain .22 bullet will carry the day...Glen


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## Cabin Fever (May 10, 2002)

Paquebot said:


> If you aren't able to stop a **** with the arsenal that you already have, I doubt if much advice here is going to be of any help to you! Practice, practice, practice!
> 
> Martin


Marty, where did you read that I couldn't stop a ****??? I shoot running **** with my shotgun and have never missed. I guess I did imply that I'd have a very difficult time shooting a running **** with one of my .22s.


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## Paquebot (May 10, 2002)

Cabin Fever said:


> Marty, where did you read that I couldn't stop a ****??? I shoot running **** with my shotgun and have never missed. I guess I did imply that I'd have a very difficult time shooting a running **** with one of my .22s.


You did indeed *imply* that you have the same problem that anyone else would have shooting at a moving target with any weapon. If it ain't stopped and you ain't got a shotgun, forget it until it does stop unless you have something like an Uzi. I can honestly say that I've never missed a running **** with a .22 due to having never been foolish enough to attempt it. 

Martin


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## Cabin Fever (May 10, 2002)

Well there ya go! We agree!


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## poorboy (Apr 15, 2006)

Paquebot said:


> And I believe that we've already heard what happens with the shotgun pellets which don't hit the target! For certain, I wouldn't want to be around someone taking wild running shots at a ****, at night, and with a shotgun or any weapon. May as well recommend an Uzi and just keep firing until the critter is dead from a stray shot or a building falling on it!
> 
> Martin


I've heard what them shotgun pellets wildy sprayed do. No. 6shot my favorite for **** or #4 is totally out of steam and harmless by the time it could reach my neighbors.:nono:


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## Hooligan (Jul 18, 2007)

Bearfootfarm said:


> There's an "equal and opposite reaction" to EVERY force.
> A bolt action has the same amount of recoil as a semi auto.
> It makes NO DIFFERENCE if that force is used to operate the action, or if it simply moves the gun.
> 
> NEITHER of those thing affects bullet speed, and no matter how often you reword it, your theory still wont be true



You ever see the Myth Busters episode where they tested cartridges put in an oven and in a campfire?

In all cases where the cartridge case was completely unsupported the case had much greater velocity and caused far more damage then the bullet did.

If you were standing around a campfire and threw in a handfull of .45 cartridges you would be far more likely to be injured by the case flying out of the fire then the bullet.

This seems to lend at least a bit of credibility to the argument that a semi-auto action might rob some velocity.


As far as the OP's question goes, I would go with a shotgun since it will be the only gun you have and it is more versatile.


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

> *In all cases where the cartridge case was completely unsupported *the case had much greater velocity and caused far more damage then the bullet did.
> 
> If you were standing around a campfire and threw in a handfull of .45 cartridges you would be far more likely to be injured by the case flying out of the fire then the bullet.
> 
> *This seems to lend at least a bit of credibility to the argument that a semi-auto action might rob some velocity*.


The reason the UNSUPPORTED case moves faster than the bullet is because it is lighter.

But this is nothing like what happens in the chamber of ANY type of firearm.

When the powder ignites and pressure starts to build, the brass case expands tightly against the chamber walls, and SEALS the gas pressure in.
The base of the case is against the breechblock, which cant move due to inertia ( in a semi auto), and the force of the recoil spring.

Once the bullet has started down the barrel, the pressure starts to overcome the inertia, and the case loosens in the chamber, allowing the breechblock to start moving towards the rear.
By the time it withdraws the cartridge from the chamber, *the bullet has already left the barrel* and all the pressure has dropped.

In a GAS OPERATED semi auto, there MAY be a very slight velocity loss, since it bleeds off pressure BEFORE the bullet leaves the barrel Usually its less than 50 fps.

But this discussion is about 22 lr's so that wouldnt apply. Any velocity loss would be LESS than the normal deviation from round to round, no matter WHAT type of action is used. Barrel length has much more effect on velocity than action type.


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## DavidUnderwood (Jul 5, 2007)

Right, Bearfoot.
The part weighing the least moves the most.
BTW, I've been shooting a 10/22 for 30 or
35 years. It was the first gun I bought myself.
Got my dads ol 514 Remington too. Can't tell 
much difference, other than barrel length.


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## swamp man (Dec 25, 2005)

Bearfootfarm said:


> They *mostly* use bolt actions for ACCURACY. It has nothing to do with the internal ballistics. And for years, the Army used M14's and XM 21's as Sniper rifles. They are both gas operated semi autos. They are also used in 1000 yd competition shooting
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Dang right.

I'd add that the accuracy gap between bolt actions and autoloaders has shrunk signifigantly in modern times, too. Most common autoloding rifles on the market today have more accuracy potential than even a seasoned shooter, at least if we're talkin' about dispatching unruly raccoon's, and not punching paper from a bench.

Besides, it's a .22.... at "run out the back door to smoke a racoon" range, a little difference in velocity is neither here nor there....it's about shot placement. [email protected] fps in the brain/vitals is still a good shot, and [email protected] in the backside is still a bad shot.


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## VarmitSniper (Apr 2, 2008)

A .22 LR is great for ***** IF you get the chance to make the shot, otherwise use a shotgun with some smaller size shot. (don't use #9 or smaller, it makes a real mess) A word of caution if you use a .22, some ***** are hard to convince they are dead, I watched one get drilled once through the head once and through the body twice, then had his insides stirred up with a hunting knife to make sure, 10 minutes later he decided he wasn't dead.(changed his mind with a .45) Most aren't like that,but it happens.


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## BuckBall (Dec 26, 2005)

12 ga for a ****? Yeah right. I have but two firearms by choice. A marlin 336 .30-30 which can be, if handloaded can take anything from grouse (110gr) to moose (170gr) including a few bears (200gr) as I have done. The lever action is the best farm, varmint weapon on the market and ammo is available everywhere for it. Some stated the 22LR, this too works, if you go for head shots, so you had best to sharp. Just my $.02


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## tallpaul (Sep 5, 2004)

an uzi with a silencer would be excellent for **** control... in capable hands. I know my sten with a can works well enough close in on tin cans smaller than a ****...

you all that wanna say they would not work well have no experience with an uzi do ya?


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## giffy (Jul 22, 2005)

My favorite..........CZ452 American .22 with a Mueller APV scope.










giffy
------------------
GiffsFarm


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