# Making hootch



## Guest

Am I the only one here that does this? I tend to put up 4-5 hundred gallons a year. So far, I've got some blackberry working, still accumulating sugar for when the peaches come in. If nobody else does it, that's OK. On the other hand, if there are any other people make their own, maybe we could share information. I have experience with blackberry, peach, plum, apple and tomato. Because of the stigma attached, I rather not ever talk about corn liquor or sugarhead. 
You'd be surprised at the trade or barter value.


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## NewGround

zong said:


> Am I the only one here that does this? I tend to put up 4-5 hundred gallons a year. So far, I've got some blackberry working, still accumulating sugar for when the peaches come in. If nobody else does it, that's OK. On the other hand, if there are any other people make their own, maybe we could share information. I have experience with blackberry, peach, plum, apple and tomato. Because of the stigma attached, I rather not ever talk about corn liquor or sugarhead.
> You'd be surprised at the trade or barter value.


Well sometime in the future I'd like to try and make some wine... But I don't know nothing at the moment and would appreciate some help. you're not too far from me...

About as close as I've got is reading Possum Living, LOL

But I know what you mean by trade value after the SHTF...

Many a man will want to imbibe...

On my list of learnin'...


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## beaglebiz

I have 6 copper stills that belonged to my grandpa in the 1920's. I have no idea what to do with them, but Id never get rid of them...(could also be used as a big boiling pot, or come in handy if TSHTF)
we make grape wine (a dry italian variety my DH is VERY fussy with, and constantly perfecting, carboys, conditioners, those perc thingys etc), I make apple, plum, peach, cranberry and currant. all using the countertop glass jar easy method 
this year, Im growing hops for DH to try his hand at some beer


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## Guest

There is an organic canner just up the road. If you act right, you can get food grade plastic 55 gallon drums from them free. That is what I've been using for a while now. I know you can get really fussy about wine. On the other hand, if you are making "hootch" no reason to be fussy. It's hootch. One purpose for it's existence, and it's not to be a fine product. LOL. Its to be cheap and effective.


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## NewGround

zong said:


> There is an organic canner just up the road. If you act right, you can get food grade plastic 55 gallon drums from them free. That is what I've been using for a while now. I know you can get really fussy about wine. On the other hand, if you are making "hootch" no reason to be fussy. It's hootch. One purpose for it's existence, and it's not to be a fine product. LOL. Its to be cheap and effective.


In the market for some of them drums for my safe water storage. Mind sharing that free source?

Also that Possum book describes what I think is called single batch... Done easily in your kitchen with an old pressure cooker....

Watched some documentary about an old moonshiner doing it "one last time" for history's sake... Can't remember names too well... He did a double batch method that clarifies it all in one run... Got to find some books that describe it better... I might give it a try soon... Purely for research and as Granny used to say "for medicinal purposes"...


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## joyfulheart

I would love insstructions for the "countertop jar method" of making hootch!

LOL

(much appreciated!)


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## Guest

NewGround, where exactly are you? PM me. The pressure cooker method calls for a pressure cooker and a stainless steel bowl almost exactly the same size. the steam rises, then you cut off the heat, the steam condenses into the bowl. simple as all get out.


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## Guest

Simple recipe for hootch, a quart of sweet fruit(grapes, blackberries. etc) per gallon. Less sweet fruit, maybe a little more. Tomatoes, maybe 4 pounds per gallon. 2 pounds sugar. gallon of water. half a spoonful or so of regular yeast(I buy this by the pound for making bread). After 24 hours or so, you should be able to see it starting to "boil" from the bottom up. I start tasting it morning and night after a week. The first time it taste worse than the time before, strain out the fruit and refrigerate for several days to kill the yeast process. The longer it sets, the more it clarifies. There is a chemical you can put in to kill the yeast also. If you don't kill the fermentation, one morning it will be vinegar. After the first time or two, you can experiment with a little more fruit or sugar to get slightly different results. If your fruit is free, it costs about a dollar a gallon. I've seen grown men cry after 50 cents worth of hootch.
ETA: it only takes a little yeast to start working, so a half spoon per gallon don't mean 27 1/2 spoons per 55 gallons. Most I ever used was 3 spoons in 55 gallons.


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## Guest

couple of pictures
I don't have a really good camera but you'll see a little anyway
This is a gallon I put up today. I picked a few blackberries, between a pint and a quart. added extra sugar. It will be a lighter color, but more potency. Less Blackberries but 3 pounds sugar.








A bucket I put up Friday. Blackberries and a few extra early apples I had. quart fruit per gallon, 2 pounds sugar per.








You probably cant see it, but this is Fridays batch, bubbling up from the bottom.The smell of "wine" is noticeable through the bottom here. Note that as the batch progresses the color of the blackberries bleaches out. Eventually they'll be a pale pink, nearly albino and tasteless(except for the wine taste)


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## InvalidID

For anyone starting out I'd recommend The Alaskan Bootleggers Bible. It has several designs, all improvised with illustrations and and detailed how to info. 

The easiest still I can think of, one that wouldn't be explosive mind you, is the same set up as was once used to extract essential oils form plants and flowers and such.

This is about as close a picture as I can find to show what I am thinking of. I'll explain how we will change it though.

http://www.seanmichaelragan.com/img/radial_alembic_diagram.png

So, we won't be using a double boiler, just a very large pot. Next, where you see the rose pedals, you would poor wine, beer, or anything with alcohol in that space. The lamp could be replaced with a Wok filled with ice water. Lastly, I'd suggest a pickle jar filled with water to lift the receiving vessel up out of the alcohol. If you heated that receiving vessel all your hooch would evap. I'd also likely use some bread dough to seal the Wok to the pot, thus eliminating any 'leaks'.
This whole setup could be heated very lightly, on the lowest setting on your stove and just kinda slow cooked. I don't think the hooch that come out of it would be on par with Chivas, but in a SHTF situation anythings better than nothing.

So, the above is for educational purposes only. Please do not attempt to make such a still as it is illegal. The Government has decided that it is beyond the ability of the average person to make distilled spirits. They are protecting you as you might blow yourself up or something equally as bad. Blah blah blah, yadda yadda yadda... Oh yeah, this website nor myself are liable if you should decide to engage in any illegal activities or if you get constipated, bloated, stub a toe, or anything bad should otherwise happen to you.

ETA: Zong, you personally make 200 gallons a year right? Cause that's the limit I think.


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## Guest

I make a lot. but some of it is made at other peoples house. I would never ever do anything to violate any of our useful and necessary laws.
ETA: until February of this year, there were 2 adults living here. So, we could possess more. As my late wife use to say, he's the hotchie cootchie king!! LOL.


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## beachcomber

no way to get the heads out with the wok method .best to make a simple pot still


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## InvalidID

I agree Beachcomber. But for an educational project, or for emergency antiseptic supplies I think it'd work ok.


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## jamala

My hubby does simple wine in a 5 or 6 gallon bucket he purchased online for making wine. It has a little spiket in the bottom to drain the wine out and a "burper" on top. I know these are not the right terms for those items but he is not home right now and I don't know what they are really called, so forgive me. He mixes fruit juice, sugar, and water. He has made blueberry (yuck) muscadine (good) and apple (yummy).


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## Mike in Ohio

We make mead, hard cider and various fruit wines. We also make fruit infused vodka.

Mike


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## Harry Chickpea

I was precocious. (Hey, I told you I think different.) I have photos of me and a friend and a still I had in our basement, back when I was about fifteen. Remembering from back then, you only want the middlings. Run the first batch through, tossing out the first few minutes and the stuff that has no kick after the alcy has distilled. Then distill THAT stuff, and only take the middle stuff. Fusel oil or some such. The middlings will burn with a blue flame.

In most cases, it isn't worth the bother. Even a cheap vodka can be run through charcoal a couple of times to make better stuff. I guess if you have a lot of fruit, and a lot of time, it could be worth the effort. 'Twas fun though.


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## logbuilder

40 years ago my mom used to make her own wine. It was a cost savings thing. She would get one can of Welch's frozen grape juice concentrate. Add a pack of yeast and some sugar (not sure how much) and nearly fill up a glass gallon jug with water. Then she would put one of those really big party balloons on top. The balloon would get bigger and bigger. In about 21 days it would stop getting bigger. That was her signal that it was ready. She was able to make a gallon of wine for less than a dollar. I was too young to taste it so I don't know how it tasted. Seemed they said it was as good as Mogan David table wine you would buy by the gallon.

Speaking of Mogan David, in college when we ran short on money, we used to chip in and get a bottle of MD2020. Tasted like medicine.


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## calliemoonbeam

Logbuilder, that's the only kind of wine I've ever made, back in the 70s...and it was horrible! I figured unless you bought a bunch of expensive equipment and spent a lot of time on it, that's all you'd ever get from homemade wine, so I never tried it again, lol!

P.S. When I was a teenager, our "party" wine was either Bali Hai or Boone's Farm, lol! Boy does that bring back memories...not good ones, mind you, just memories!


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## Tarheel

NewGround, sounds like a few of the " Carolina Boy's" need to do some taste testing ! :happy2:

Good job Zong !


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## Guest

Next Sunday it should be right. I like to start around 10:00 AM so I can be good and right by noon. As WC Fields said, anybody that ain't drunk by noon just ain't trying.


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## Bearfootfarm

> In the market for some of them drums for my safe water storage. Mind sharing that free source?



I've heard that Mt Olive pickles gives them away but I can't swear to that.


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## Shrek

I make myself about 30 gallons of wine a year now from juice I freeze after harvest and 3 glass carboys. When I was living in the singles apartment complex in the 1980s I usually had four carboys thumping and six to 12 outgas finishing because all of us were short of money and I had plenty of muscodines and scupponaurs at my parents farm to juice to keep 20 gallons working and 30 to 60 gallons for drinking

One of my winter season favorites is a blend of tomato and jalapeno wines from recipes I found at www.jackkeller.net

There are a slew of wine recipes on the site.

There is even a recipe for corn wine on Jack's site that when aged a couple years with charred oak chips in the bottle is sort of like sipping a bourbon and branch water mixed drink.

BTW if you like cask aged wines , an easy way to do so without an oak cask is to outgas age the wine in a glass carboy with a couple of pounds of 1 inch long pencil sized white oak chips floating in the wine for the aging and fill the airlock with gliceryn to prevent evaporation of the lock solution.

I chip my own oak now but order my other supplies from E.C. Kraus at www.eckraus.com


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## lonelyfarmgirl

DH makes fruit wine out of my juicing leftovers. He likes it, I don't, but it is booze. He doesn't use any of the weird chemicals. Just sugar, yeast, water and fruit. He has a couple jars and air lock stoppers. The local wine making place sells the stuff. I know of a guy who makes the hard stuff..illegal of course..but that's his problem. I don't drink.

One time, years ago, DH gave the leftover fruit yuck to our potbelly sows. BIG mistake. He never thought they would be wasted. It was SO funny. They ran in circles trying to kill each other for hours, then passed out and laid on their sides and ran in their sleep for more than 24 hours. Once they came too they had bad hangovers for a couple days and raw spots on their thighs from 'running'. We felt really bad and were afraid at one point we might have killed them. 

On a positive note, the one sow we kept is a great mother, very tame, and at this point has raised 5 successful litters for us and is due anytime.


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## mekasmom

beaglebiz said:


> I make apple, plum, peach, cranberry and currant. all using the countertop glass jar easy method


I make wine that way too, only it's not on the countertop, it's on the floor in the corner of the extra room! LOL.


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## 7thswan

I make wine also. I did get all the big stuff-the carboys,pre fermenter bucket, bunch of chemicals, fancy yeast. It worked fine. But it is much easier for me to use gallon jars,due to picking off the trees,bushes etc and just putting in a jar,dump sugar in and let it set. After awhile I'll taste it, if it needs I add more sugar and it ferments again. Do this until the taste is right and it's done.I put it in quart jars. I don't drink it because of my isues with wine bringing on migraines. Tho it might be diffrent with homemade instead of storebought.This is Cherry,white grape/golden rasberry and Grape for gifts.







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## hintonlady

We make mead but would like to start making fruit wines. For the time being I'd rather use wine yeasts and save the bread yeast for shtf situations. It's a matter of alcohol content :happy: and clarity.


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## ladybug

We've been wanting to try this but haven't yet, too scared I will blow up the kitchen


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## po boy

I tend to put up 4-5 hundred gallons a year.

What do you drink the other 11 months of the year?


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## used2bcool13

With this countertop easy method you all are using, 

Do you put the yeast water fruit and sugar in a container and then put the lid on?

Or do you leave the lid off? 

Thanks very much!


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## lonelyfarmgirl

po boy said:


> I tend to put up 4-5 hundred gallons a year.
> 
> What do you drink the other 11 months of the year?


WOW, what do you do with it all? Drink it? That would be more than a gallon a day.


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## kirkmcquest

7thswan said:


> I make wine also. I did get all the big stuff-the carboys,pre fermenter bucket, bunch of chemicals, fancy yeast. It worked fine. But it is much easier for me to use gallon jars,due to picking off the trees,bushes etc and just putting in a jar,dump sugar in and let it set. After awhile I'll taste it, if it needs I add more sugar and it ferments again. Do this until the taste is right and it's done.I put it in quart jars. I don't drink it because of my isues with wine bringing on migraines. Tho it might be diffrent with homemade instead of storebought.This is Cherry,white grape/golden rasberry and Grape for gifts.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> [/url][/IMG]


You don't add any yeast? I know there is natural yeast on fruit and etc, but I have never tried to ferment without adding some.


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## Guest

You don't need to have it wide open to insects and such, but never completely seal it up, because pressure will build up and CAN explode. Sometimes I use a plastic bag tied over an open drum, it keeps bugs out and fumes down. These barrels I'm using now, they have 2 threaded bungs, I drill a hole through one of them, insert a plastic tube, and seal around it, then run the tube into a container of water, The air escaping the barrel goes through the tube then bubbles up through the water.


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## used2bcool13

Thanks Zong,

So if I were just doing a gallon on the counter I could use the same method.

I will try this after my grapes ripen.

Thanks again


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## AverageJo

Is there anything you can do with orange juice? 

I used to make beer and a looong time ago made wine (dandelion/raisin). Not sure about the hooch. I'm thinking zong left out a few steps? It's got to be more after straining and putting it in the frig to get the yeast to stop working. At that point it's wine, right? Not sure I'd even like hooch... what is commercially like it? Vodka? Burbon? Wiskey? How different is the taste given the starting liquor? If you're just looking for the buzz, why go through the extra step?


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## postroad

I have a fancy industrial unit used to distil solvent out of used paint. Probably cost thousands of dollars new but was bought at auction for fifty dollars.

If I had 240 handy I might try my hand at distiling some high octane fuel for the lawnmower.

I imagine that the boiling point of alcohol and solvent would be fairly close?


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## Guest

The entire point of hootch is it is cheap. about a dollar a gallon. You use more or less a quart of fruit per gallon. More or less 2 pounds of sugar per gallon. a tiny amount of regular old yeast like you make bread with. And the gallon of water. Let it sit. It will start working by itself in 24-48 hours. Thats about it. of course, you don't seal it up, nor do you leave it wide open for the dogs to get into either. You can put some more sugar in it and kick-start it into working again, and make it a little stronger. but why bother, at a dollar a gallon??when you like the way it taste, strain out the fruit leftovers, pour it up in bottles or jars and put it in the refrigerator to stop it from working. OR, buy the chemical, I think it's called Camden Tablets. There are no other hidden steps. They make it in jail using prunes for the fruit. Look up "Pruno"
ETA: when sugar was 50 cents a five pound bag, it only cost about 20 cents a gallon to make then.


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## nathan104

May try this when our pear tree ripens. We had so much extra last year, I was feeding pears to our livestock. This was after giving plenty away. We dont drink, but just sounds like something neat to try, Im sure my brother would drink it up, lol.


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## Shrek

hintonlady said:


> We make mead but would like to start making fruit wines. For the time being I'd rather use wine yeasts and save the bread yeast for shtf situations. It's a matter of alcohol content :happy: and clarity.


If you want to max out the alcohol levels pasteur red or distiller's yeast live longer in the ferment.


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## Shrek

zong said:


> The entire point of hootch is it is cheap. about a dollar a gallon. You use more or less a quart of fruit per gallon. More or less 2 pounds of sugar per gallon. a tiny amount of regular old yeast like you make bread with. And the gallon of water. Let it sit. It will start working by itself in 24-48 hours. Thats about it. of course, you don't seal it up, nor do you leave it wide open for the dogs to get into either. You can put some more sugar in it and kick-start it into working again, and make it a little stronger. but why bother, at a dollar a gallon??when you like the way it taste, strain out the fruit leftovers, pour it up in bottles or jars and put it in the refrigerator to stop it from working. OR, buy the chemical, I think it's called Camden Tablets. There are no other hidden steps. They make it in jail using prunes for the fruit. Look up "Pruno"
> ETA: when sugar was 50 cents a five pound bag, it only cost about 20 cents a gallon to make then.


If you use high sugar fruits you don't need processed sugar and often not even yeasts other than the local wild yeasts but those techniques lack consistancy from one batch to the next.


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## 7thswan

kirkmcquest said:


> You don't add any yeast? I know there is natural yeast on fruit and etc, but I have never tried to ferment without adding some.


No, I guess there is enough in the air. I have made all kinds, it seems to work. The top of the refridgerator seems to work nice, it's warm up there.Everyone says the wine's got a real kick. I have one of the hydrometers, but can't figure it out. Dh got me some copper coil, now it's time to figure out the rest using a canner? Oh ya, I don't screw the lid on the gallon jars, just set them on lightly.


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## AverageJo

DH made some really potent apple cider vinegar. 
Squeeze the apples into cider. Put the cider into wide mouth glass jars. Covered the jars with cheese cloth and put in a dark, cool place and let them set. As soon as it started forming the 'mother' (scum on top), we put a lid loosely on top to stop the evaporation. It's now 6 months old and has stopped 'working'. He's siphoning the vinegar out of the jars and putting it into gallon jars. 

Still wondering if you can make anything decent out of orange juice... Comments? Suggestions?
Went and did a web search. Might give it a try and let y'all know how it turns out.


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## Guest

I guess theres a little confusion about terminology. My fault for not clarifying. 
"white liquor" bootleg, moonshine are all terms for distilled alcohol. it has to be cooked, can be smelled for a long ways, is dangerous in that if you don't pour off the head, you can go blind and crazy. It's illegal. It takes a major operation to do properly. If you screw up, you'll have a fire you can't deal with. If you're on somebody else's turf, you could get killed. If you're selling to somebody, you compound your problems. The ATF will come down on you like a pack of buzzards on a dead possum.
On the other hand hootch is, at the very basics, a wine. It is fermented. It relies on the simple fact that sugar ferments under a given set of circumstances. It's legal. theres no fire hazard, and you don't have to go a mile down in the woods to make it. You'll not need to sell most of it just to break even. No pack of buzzards. Its cheap, many people consider it to taste unpleasant, but it works. 
If you google "prison hootch" you'll find recipes and videos that start with any kind of fruit or even fruit colored product, add sugar, in the prison hootch recipes, they usually threw in a couple pieces of bread, because there wasn't yeast readily available. put in your water and let it work. Hold your nose and drink it. Laugh at yourself and your jailhouse buddies and do it again next week. Making hootch is the epitome of simplicity.


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## 7thswan

Is it really that hard to make vodka? Potatoes grow great here.


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## Guest

This is a short video I made this morning, showing how it should look after 4 days. I took the fruit out because it had bleached out good and I don't want the seeds to start making a bitter taste.
[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3uiWhqRgddg[/ame]


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## soulsurvivor

zong said:


> This is a short video I made this morning, showing how it should look after 4 days. I took the fruit out because it had bleached out good and I don't want the seeds to start making a bitter taste.
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3uiWhqRgddg



I'm not certain why, but the background music to your video doesn't stop after the video has ended. LOL! I've never had this happen on youtube.

Oh goodness, my apologies. It's not your video that's doing this. My granddaughter has some other sites keyed in here. Sorry sorry sorry,,,, I could use some elixir about now....


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## beachcomber

you dont need potatoes to make vodka,all you need is sugar ,water ,nutrients,yeast,and a easy to make still


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## 7thswan

beachcomber said:


> you dont need potatoes to make vodka,all you need is sugar ,water ,nutrients,yeast,and a easy to make still


Thanks, someday,I'll read up.


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## Guest

soulsurvivor said:


> I'm not certain why, but the background music to your video doesn't stop after the video has ended. LOL! I've never had this happen on youtube.
> 
> Oh goodness, my apologies. It's not your video that's doing this. My granddaughter has some other sites keyed in here. Sorry sorry sorry,,,, I could use some elixir about now....


Ahh, if you liked the feeling of thinking "Huh?" you'll love hootch!!! I guess you've got a contact high!! Or visual high, maybe.


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## Ray

Boy you guys are all way ahead of me, All I've ever done is my 5 1/4 batches of home made ale, and some small 5 or 10 gal. batches of concord grape wine. experimented with dandelion wine, I herd it was soooo good, poohy tastes like oranges. whats the dandelion flowers for?? camouflage? I'll stick with my old home made Ale, just can't beat it for my tastes. But I can see how addicting it is making all these things so I'm all for ya!! great fun, and taste too!!


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## Guest

This is my other addiction, this turned out around 10:00 this morning. So, a bucket of hootch, 3 loaves of bread, and all I need now is some hungry, thirsty gal. If she eats all the bread, she'll look better and better as I drink all the hootch. Or, she can drink the hootch, and I'll look better and better to her...


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## unioncreek

If I was making anything stronger than wine, I wouldn't be talking about it. You may get a knock on the door.


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## momof2

zong said:


> This is my other addiction, this turned out around 10:00 this morning. So, a bucket of hootch, 3 loaves of bread, and all I need now is some hungry, thirsty gal. If she eats all the bread, she'll look better and better as I drink all the hootch. Or, she can drink the hootch, and I'll look better and better to her...


Reason enough to start making wine and bread! LOL You gave me a much needed laugh!!!


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## Cash

7thswan said:


> I make wine also. I did get all the big stuff-the carboys,pre fermenter bucket, bunch of chemicals, fancy yeast. It worked fine. But it is much easier for me to use gallon jars,due to picking off the trees,bushes etc and just putting in a jar,dump sugar in and let it set. After awhile I'll taste it, if it needs I add more sugar and it ferments again. Do this until the taste is right and it's done.I put it in quart jars. *I don't drink it because of my isues with wine bringing on migraines*. Tho it might be diffrent with homemade instead of storebought.


Most wine-related migraine headaches are caused by the sulfites that are added to preserve it. My daughter and my brother have that same problem, but they can drink non-sulfited organic wine and homemade wines without a problem.


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## Harry Chickpea

Sulfites are a natural by-product in some wines.


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## stormrider27

The number one thing you can do to improve your home made wine is to use wine yeast. It is cheap keeps for a long time in the fridge and doesn't have the same flavors as bread yeast. It will also ferment out drier than bread yeast meaning it will make more alcohol. There are a couple of different kinds depending on the type of wine that you want to make. I suggest getting a catalog from a place like Midwest brewers or more wine and reading the descriptions of the different yeasts. 
The other thing I recommend is getting a hydrometer for wine and beer making. This will take all of the guess work out of whether or not your wine is done. (On a personal note it will prevent your 18 bottles of apple wine from blowing their corks in the middle of the night and pouring their contents down the front of your microwave causing a 65$ circuit board to fry (ymmv)).

Those two things alone will improve the taste and joy of making wine. I have found that the more you do in this hobby the more you want to do. I don't make a lot of the fruit wines yet I am making Mead now I have made a bunch of apple wine, and I have a Malbec kit that is waiting for a carboy to free up (that makes 6 gallons). I am debating on putting in muscadine vines to grow my own grapes for wine but then I'll need a press and a much bigger fermentation chamber oh and some barrels and ..... 


Storm


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## ryanthomas

I second the wine yeast suggestion. Bread yeast works fine, but wine yeast will make it stronger and better tasting. For most fruit wines, you can't go wrong with Red Star Cote des Blancs at 50 cents each. That's supposed to be enough to make 5 gallons, but if you start it in 1 gallon for a day before adding it to a 55 gallon barrel of juice it should work fine. Or you could just add 5-10 packets right to the barrel. Montrachet and Champagne yeasts are also good for many different wines. I even use Champagne yeast to make beer occasionally. Airlocks will also help give better and more consistent results. You can get them for about a dollar and they'll last for many many batches. Get the three piece kind. They're easier to clean. A hydrometer is handy, too. You can get one for around 7 bucks. So even with a little specialized equipment to make a better quality wine, it can still be quite cheap.


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## stormrider27

I looked up a couple of my bookmarks. The first is really good page on country fruit wines. There are a ton of recipes and walk throughs. 

fruit wine recipes

This one is for those of you who live outside of the country where making and having a still is not illegal

how to make a still


I hope these are of use to you all.

Storm


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## Old John

I have been making Mead and Beer, Ale, since 1991. I generally make about 30 to 35 gallons of Mead a year, of various types, for our home use and for gifts to friends & family. I put my Mead into champagne bottles because they seal with the same crown caps I use on my beer bottles. So, I don't have to mess with using corks. I have about 10 cases of the green champagnes.

I also make 35 to 40 gallons of Ale. It's generally mostly Brown Ale, Sweet Stout, Porter and a little IPA. My beer is recognizable as the Style it is meant to be.
I make my beer so it is as good as the Imports you buy for twice the price. I have 20 cases of recycled beer bottles of various kinds, even 4 cases of the old long-neck amber Budweiser bottles. The rest are in cases I made out of 1/2" CDX plywood, built to hold four 6-packs.

Its is an easy, very gratifying hobby, to pursue, if you like good Ale, like to Cook, and have the Time and space.


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## AverageJo

I got curious enough to start a batch. Had some 'fruit punch' that I added 2 pounds of sugar and enough water to make up a gallon, then added 1tsp of bread yeast. That was yesterday around noon. So far..... nothing.

Does it take longer than that to see something happening? Does High Fructose Corn Syrup kill the yeast? Should I wait or dump this out and start from fruits? I was hoping to take a shortcut with the fruit drink. Bet I should have gone with 100% pure juice instead of the punch, but it's what was on hand.


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## Guest

It should start bubbling and roiling pretty soon. the cooler it is, the longer it will take.


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## kirkmcquest

zong said:


> I guess theres a little confusion about terminology. My fault for not clarifying.
> "white liquor" bootleg, moonshine are all terms for distilled alcohol. it has to be cooked, can be smelled for a long ways, is dangerous in that if you don't pour off the head, you can go blind and crazy. It's illegal. It takes a major operation to do properly. If you screw up, you'll have a fire you can't deal with. If you're on somebody else's turf, you could get killed. If you're selling to somebody, you compound your problems. The ATF will come down on you like a pack of buzzards on a dead possum.
> On the other hand hootch is, at the very basics, a wine. It is fermented. It relies on the simple fact that sugar ferments under a given set of circumstances. It's legal. theres no fire hazard, and you don't have to go a mile down in the woods to make it. You'll not need to sell most of it just to break even. No pack of buzzards. Its cheap, many people consider it to taste unpleasant, but it works.
> If you google "prison hootch" you'll find recipes and videos that start with any kind of fruit or even fruit colored product, add sugar, in the prison hootch recipes, they usually threw in a couple pieces of bread, because there wasn't yeast readily available. put in your water and let it work. Hold your nose and drink it. Laugh at yourself and your jailhouse buddies and do it again next week. Making hootch is the epitome of simplicity.


There is also a process of reverse distillation thats called 'jacking'. My grandfather used to set a barrel of hard cider out in the winter and shave off some of the ice every couple of days.

Only water freezes so you make it stronger every time you shave some ice off. You end up with 'cider jack'...something in between liquor and brew.


----------



## Trisha in WA

kirkmcquest said:


> There is also a process of reverse distillation thats called 'jacking'. My grandfather used to set a barrel of hard cider out in the winter and shave off some of the ice every couple of days.
> 
> Only water freezes so you make it stronger every time you shave some ice off. You end up with 'cider jack'...something in between liquor and brew.


OH MY! That is brilliant.


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## beachcomber

freeze distillation also concentrates the the alchohols that you dont want to drink like methonol that is already high in apple.again ...no way to get rid of the heads.best to distill so you have the oppertunity to get rid of the poisonous alchohols.


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## ryanthomas

AverageJo said:


> I got curious enough to start a batch. Had some 'fruit punch' that I added 2 pounds of sugar and enough water to make up a gallon, then added 1tsp of bread yeast. That was yesterday around noon. So far..... nothing.
> 
> Does it take longer than that to see something happening? Does High Fructose Corn Syrup kill the yeast? Should I wait or dump this out and start from fruits? I was hoping to take a shortcut with the fruit drink. Bet I should have gone with 100% pure juice instead of the punch, but it's what was on hand.


The fruit punch probably has preservatives in it. Their purpose is to keep it from fermenting. It may still work eventually, but not likely to work well.


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## Guest

day 5.5 you can hear it sizzle as it works. I'm getting excited!
[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NZugib7cFbY[/ame]


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## AverageJo

Thanks for your advice! I'll give it until tomorrow, but if it hasn't started anything by then, I think I'll chalk it up to learning.


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## ryanthomas

zong said:


> day 5.5 you can hear it sizzle as it works. I'm getting excited!
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NZugib7cFbY


I love that sound!


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## unregistered29228

Interesting thread! I've made wine and mead and beer but not for a while. It was a skill I wanted to learn, but then you have all this good wine lying around and you end up drinking it!

I thought distilling hard liquor was legal if it's just for personal consumption. Am I wrong?


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## ryanthomas

Mom_of_Four said:


> I thought distilling hard liquor was legal if it's just for personal consumption. Am I wrong?


Yes, it is illegal in the United States. Plenty of people do it, though. I may have dabbled in it a bit myself.


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## Blu3duk

the fruit wines made into brandy by distilling are the best medicinal tincture prodcuts there are.... they keep the best as they have no oils in them added like the large distillers do to "proof" up their products.....

simple double boiler makes a couple pints from a gallon in a short time..... careful though it can be addictive to make cause its only basement chemistry!

i aint made a batch in a longtime.... but i aint fergot how.

William
Idaho


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## beachcomber

basement chemistry can turn out a better product than you can buy


----------



## Harry Chickpea

I'd like to see cites on methanol in ciderjack or applejack. If it was that much of a problem, then it would be in hard cider as well. Methanol can be made from putting brass in the exhaust of a woodburner and collecting drippings, but I'm not aware of significant methanol production by yeast. I would expect aldehydes and conegers (sp?) that could give you a heck of a hangover though. Anyway, if someone has a cite from a respected source, I'd like to see it.


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## ryanthomas

I don't have a citation, but the way I understand it, fermenting pectin tends to produce more methanol and apples are very high in pectin. In hard cider, it's diluted by water so probably doesn't cause any problems. If you distill it with a still, it's easy to cut out most of the methanol because it boils at a lower temperature. Freeze distilling doesn't remove any methanol, only concentrates it. I don't think it's a huge problem though. Plenty of people have drank lots of apple jack and not gone blind.


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## Guest

couple more buckets making on the porch. notice how the fermentation has swollen the bags I tied on.


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## Vickie44

Storm: Great link on distilling ,Thank You ~ Vickie


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## Raven12

I'm trying wine next year. I can't wait!


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## Shrarvrs88

So thanks to this thread, I have my own hootch experiment going on in the kitchen, lol. Lets see how it turns out.


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## stanb999

ryanthomas said:


> I don't have a citation, but the way I understand it, fermenting pectin tends to produce more methanol and apples are very high in pectin. In hard cider, it's diluted by water so probably doesn't cause any problems. If you distill it with a still, it's easy to cut out most of the methanol because it boils at a lower temperature. Freeze distilling doesn't remove any methanol, only concentrates it. I don't think it's a huge problem though. Plenty of people have drank lots of apple jack and not gone blind.


Your mostly right...

The reason to avoid making apple jack is the hang over. It isn't going to harm you.

If you want to make a Hi alcohol cider. Start with a champagne yeast. That will get you to. 18%.

What you want to do is get you cider and boil it down.. When I say boil I mean evaporate it. You don't want a cooked apple taste so keep the temp below 180F. You need to boil away at least 3 gallons to one gallon. Apple cider is about 5-6%. This will bring the sugar to the 15-18% range.

Ferment it according to the temperature recommendation on the yeast package. When done you will have a liquor of about the same strength as triple sec. Really good for mixing with soda water. Or sippin' on a fortnight of winter during a bilazzrd.



Doing it this way you will get a cleaner brew. Without all the junk and no hang over. If you have a hydrometer take a reading from the juice and adjust the proportions of boiling accordingly. If not the above will still work.


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## Ohiogal

Interesting thread - thanks for posting it!
I've been making wine for about 10 years now. Last year I switched to making vodka-based liquers. I had an abundance of elderberry in the garden, and I made 1/2 the crop in wine and the other in liquer. I have a small grape arbor here, and I put the grapes up from that and then mix the batches for my signature farm wine.
I have about 100 bottles in the basement, of various vintages, just waiting to be consumed or traded.
I have a 'carrot whiskey' recipe that is to die for - but its expensive to make.
I have also made rose petal wine which is quite good but requires a fairly fragrant bush like the Zepherine Droughin.
I started out using "Home Winemaking" by H.E. Bravery, but his recipes run sweet as he's British. I have tinkerd with them to make dry wines which seem to work for me.
However, I do on occasion make a sweet wine for dessert.
This year I planted hops as I have my grandmothers old beer recipe (German Ale) which my father said was "great". He liked dark beers so I'm sure that what the beer turns out to be.
We'll see...


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## 7thswan

Ohiogal said:


> Interesting thread - thanks for posting it!
> I've been making wine for about 10 years now. Last year I switched to making vodka-based liqueurs. I had an abundance of elderberry in the garden, and I made 1/2 the crop in wine and the other in liquor. I have a small grape arbor here, and I put the grapes up from that and then mix the batches for my signature farm wine.
> I have about 100 bottles in the basement, of various vintages, just waiting to be consumed or traded.
> I have a 'carrot whiskey' recipe that is to die for - but its expensive to make.
> I have also made rose petal wine which is quite good but requires a fairly fragrant bush like the Zephirine Drouhin.
> I started out using "Home Winemaking" by H.E. Bravery, but his recipes run sweet as he's British. I have tinkered with them to make dry wines which seem to work for me.
> However, I do on occasion make a sweet wine for dessert.
> This year I planted hops as I have my grandmothers old beer recipe (German Ale) which my father said was "great". He liked dark beers so I'm sure that what the beer turns out to be.
> We'll see...


I have a Hops vine,supposed to be Golden Hops. When do I harvest them, when they are green( then put in dehydrator) or do I let them dry on the vine.I'm also curious about making wine with roses, I have Rugosa roses,they smell great and have huge Hips.


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## Ohiogal

I don't know when to harvest hops. I've been to big breweries and they are green when they go into the beer mix. I'm assuming pick them green. I'm going to have to Google that to see. This is the first year for my vines.

On the rose petal wine, my recipe calls for 1 quart rose petals, which is a lot unless you have several bushes going. You do not use the heads. Just strip the petals. If you use a fragrant bush, you'll get the rose scent in the wine, which sounds weird, but its very good as a table wine.


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## Shrarvrs88

Hey, I have a question. So I only let mine ferment a few days...it started tasting plenty strong for me, lol, I have to be able to drink it 

Anyways, I was wondering if methanol could be made from applesauce this way, and if so, how to get it out of there?


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## Guest

during fermentation, the methanol production typically runs 2-3 PPM. So, in order to get a gallon of methanol, you would need to ferment at least 500,000 gallons. On the other hand, you will have plenty of good stuff to drink. Thats why you don't have to worry about going blind and crazy with a fermented hooch.


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## Shrarvrs88

ok, so it is super safe then!  Good. So, do you mix it or drink it straight...and how strong do you think it normally ends up with a week fermenting?


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## Guest

I put up some blackberry after 9 days, it seemed about right. With the price of sugar currently(here) $3.00 a 5 pound bag, it cost 1.20 a gallon to make. A quart(30 cents worth) had me in a fine fettle so I guessed it was done enough for me. Through my headphones, I was blasting that Van Halen song, "why can't this be love?" and "whoo"ing in all the right places. Not bad for 30 cents.... It goes down easier cold. But easy ain't the cowboy way. Always straight. Of course, I drink whiskey straight too.


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## Shrarvrs88

Lol, sounds like fun! I bet I will have more patience with the batch I am starting today...Does it need to sit and clarify, or can you just drink it as is? Sorry, I can't find much info on the web, lol...and I am a hooch virgin....*chuckles*


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## ryanthomas

The best part about making "hootch" is there are no rules. You can drink it right away. But pretty much all wine will taste better and be smoother with some aging. One month makes a difference, six months is better, a year is great. Beyond a year, homemade stuff only gets better if you really know what you're doing when you start out.


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## Shrarvrs88

Oh, good. I pulled it out and it is YUMMY! MMMM....

Thanks for all the info.  I am starting mead today, that should be good.


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## Guest

What I do is, after 4 days or so, start tasting it. just a swallow or two. One day, I say, hmm, that's good and have a cup. or two. At some point I'm thinking, "this is right" or else, one day I'll think "this was a little more to my taste yesterday". Whichever of those two hit first, thats when I stop the process. I guess I could get a hydrometer for a few bucks, but after so many years, the taste method seems ideal to me. Some people are going to like it pretty smooth and easy to swallow. Some other people are going to like that "Wow!" tanginess. It all depends on your personal taste. 25 years ago, I liked to make it as easy to drink as ice tea, you'd be all tore up before you knew it. Now I like to make it a right smart tangier, sort of that involuntary eye twitching feeling. Times change.


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## Shrarvrs88

Oh, and it is soooo yummy.  

I seriously cant think of a reason this is not done more. I love it.  And thinking of all the things I could make with it...my mom assured me it would be nasty...on the contrair!

I love you Zong.  Thank you for this post. 

muhahhaha


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## ryanthomas

I've never made mead, but I've heard it's practically undrinkable before one year of aging, and it's amazing after three years, but few people ever age it that long because it's pretty darn delicious before that.


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## Peggy

just got into making wine. I made Mead 1st then dandelion wine this year I made strawberry and am planningon making blackberry wine when the blackberries ripen. :dance:


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## Durandal

My garden manager made a batch of Green Tomato wine last year. Have about a half gallon left in my fridge. Was mighty fine. She used all the frost drop tomatoes in October that had not changed.

Anythign with sugar.


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## unregistered29228

ryanthomas said:


> I've never made mead, but I've heard it's practically undrinkable before one year of aging, and it's amazing after three years, but few people ever age it that long because it's pretty darn delicious before that.


Mine never made it more than about 6 months....it's better with age, but totally drinkable after just a couple of months. Especially if you add flavoring to it like orange sections or cinnamon sticks.


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## stanb999

ryanthomas said:


> I've never made mead, but I've heard it's practically undrinkable before one year of aging, and it's amazing after three years, but few people ever age it that long because it's pretty darn delicious before that.


There are a ton of factors that make wine good or evil. The one thing to remember is home brewing is about making what you think tastes great. What the "experts" say really has no bearing at all.

I've "heard" you can't make great wine like I do. You need a ton of other ingredients.. You sure could add more cost and complexity. I make wine with 4 ingredients berries, sugar, water, and yeast. Mostly it comes out good. On occasion it comes out great. Some times it's not fit for swill and needs mixed with soda to choke it down. But it's always "drinkable".


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## CocalicoSprings

I've got lots of clean winemaking equipment for sale if any of you are interested. All my old winemaking buddies finally lost interest in the "winemaking parties" and I too have thrown in the towel!
Once I made shine. Had an old timer who set me up before he died and gave me his still.
The process takes a long time and with Evan Williams at $11.00 a bottle ...why bother unless it's the end of the world as we know it?


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## ryanthomas

CocalicoSprings said:


> The process takes a long time and with Evan Williams at $11.00 a bottle ...why bother unless it's the end of the world as we know it?


The shine I made cost about $11 a gallon and tasted 100 times better than Evan Williams. Just hearing that name makes me gag.


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## TNHermit

A question on this hootch stuff  ?

Lurked this thing out I gathered up some wild black berries and did the one gallon jar thing. Sugar yeast an water. Its been setting for 4 days (80-85deg) now with a plastic bag on top. Not really blowing up the bag any. smells good but don't see any color coming out of the berries. what should I be looking for now

Oh yea Do cherries have to be pitted to do this.?


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## Shrarvrs88

Maybe if you squish the fruit?


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## 7thswan

I've never squished the fruit,but the bigger stuff like plums I've froze. I suppose freezing pops the skin. 4 days tho, rasberrys show the color. I haven't done Blackberrys yet, the bushes are too young.Also never pitted the cherrys.


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## momof2

Zong... my blueberry wine is WONDERFUL. I already have peach and grape making. I can't believe how easy it is and how good it can turn out.


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## Freya

zong said:


> Am I the only one here that does this? I tend to put up 4-5 *hundred* gallons a year.



Are you really drinking 1-2 *GALLONS* a day year round? Was this a typo or are you filling a warehouse? :buds:


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## longshot38

hintonlady said:


> We make mead but would like to start making fruit wines. For the time being I'd rather use wine yeasts and save the bread yeast for shtf situations. It's a matter of alcohol content :happy: and clarity.


can you describe your mead making, maybe in a separate thread? ive always wanted to make mead but never had the nerve, i need a real easy method LOL. 

thanks

dean


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## Guest

Freya said:


> Are you really drinking 1-2 *GALLONS* a day year round? Was this a typo or are you filling a warehouse? :buds:


No, I don't drink hardly any wine at all. I'm more of a beer drinker, wine and liquor will make me crazy.


----------



## Guest

momof2 said:


> Zong... my blueberry wine is WONDERFUL. I already have peach and grape making. I can't believe how easy it is and how good it can turn out.


I'm glad that you didn't throw it out!!


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## Shrarvrs88

mmmm....I have been starting about a gallon a day. Everyone likes it, and while I am still playing around with it, we have lots of fun experimenting and drinking.  

It seems to make me uncordinated quicker than beer, though, and not as stupid mentally. I didnt know different preperation makes for a differnt buzz....


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## Guest

I had several 1 gallon jugs that I set down in a shack in the woods with the top ever so slightly unscrewed(to keep them from exploding) because the refrigerator was full. I planned on getting back to them in a few days, but forgot all about it. Several weeks later, I was back down there ,and found it. It had worked off all the sugar, and was kinda rough tasting, what they like to refer to as dry, I guess. It was really potent though. I thought the taste was easier to work with than the sweeter taste that everybody that comes around here seems to like. I could get use to that, I think. However, I don't think I could ever acclimate myself to the really sweet stuff other people seem to like. Brut. LOL. The dryest. I like the sound of the word, it makes me think of those really mean people with the low foreheads. I got yer Brut. Brute drinking Brut. LOL


----------



## Guest

OK, fellow hootchers, for the first time in my life I actually have a hydrometer. One of the recipients of my product bought me one on Ebay and sent it to me. My latest effort came to 12.5% alcohol. I've experimented, got the easiest and most straightforward recipe ever, which I found on the internet myself. It costs $4 per gallon to make and would theoretically end at 14% or so, but I ran it to 12.5% and kept 2 pounds of sugar.
This is for 5 gallons. So get a 5 gallon food grade bucket or a water bottle or whatever. Get it super clean. Buy 10 cans of frozen concentrated grape juice. I bought the Food Lion brand, was $1.29. Get a 10 pound bad of sugar. Cost me $5.59 at the Food Lion. Put the grape juice in the 5 gallon container, and at least 7.5 pounds of sugar. The more sugar, the stronger it'll get. up to a certain point. Put some hot water in there and stir it up good to try to melt the sugar. Fill it up with warm water. I used a tablespoon of plain old baking yeast. I don't have any wine yeast or anything like that, but I buy yeast at $4.25 per pound now. take a garbage bag(if you're using a bucket) and tie it tight over the top of the bucket. After a week or so, start checking it. That which I made using this formula kept on working and getting stronger for 2 weeks. Like I said, it ended up at 12.5% alcohol, which is pretty stiff. 10 cand grape juice at 1.29=12.90. 10 pound bag sugar, $5.59. total cost 18.69. plus tax. A little under $20 for 5 gallons high grade stuff.


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## CocalicoSprings

ryanthomas said:


> The shine I made cost about $11 a gallon and tasted 100 times better than Evan Williams. Just hearing that name makes me gag.


Ok..i get the gag bit. I am sure yours is better than EW....but what is your time worth? Does the gallon cost $11 for the ingredients, the equipment, the fuel, the clean up, and the time spent watching the still? How much time did you invest? How much do you make an hour? If it is fun to you and time doesn't matter then I see your point. If time DOES matter, do you see mine?


----------



## ||Downhome||

AverageJo said:


> Still wondering if you can make anything decent out of orange juice...


the Acidity of citrus makes it a hard thing to do, possible but not the greatest out come.

My suggestion is make a sugar wash. then mix with your juice. 
the other thing is maybe add a bit of orange oil, or add orange peel and let it set after its done working or both. same for lemon or lime or a combo. 
perhaps even orange marmalade.

pretty sure the flavored malt drinks like Smirnoff, are all blended drinks.

Zong if your using a brewing yeast, should tell you what the Alcohol tolerance is. 
Champagne yeast is 18% ABV and if you look around you can find others as high as 23%.

I'll be using the Champagne yeast and Sugar water, then blend it for different flavors. and bottle in clean 2 litter bottles. 

If my maths right 12 and 1/2 lbs to 5 gallons should yield, when worked completely a 18% dry product. mixed 3(other)to 1(brew) will give me a 6% final product. which is perfect for me. 
I could be off on the ratio may be 2 to 1 ?

Some one whos use to less alcohol like say regular beer could blend it 5-6 to 1 for a 3% mix.


----------



## Elie May

Ya'll got my curiosity up, so went out and picked some grapes (before the squirrels did) this morning and mixed up a batch... it's sitting on my kitchen counter. I'm excited!


----------



## ryanthomas

CocalicoSprings said:


> Ok..i get the gag bit. I am sure yours is better than EW....but what is your time worth? Does the gallon cost $11 for the ingredients, the equipment, the fuel, the clean up, and the time spent watching the still? How much time did you invest? How much do you make an hour? If it is fun to you and time doesn't matter then I see your point. If time DOES matter, do you see mine?


Yeah, definitely see your point. That $11 estimate didn't include the time I put into it. It was just a fun experiment for me, but the time required is the main reason I only distilled a few times. Of course if I invested more money in a better still I could make a much bigger batch in shorter time and maybe make it worth my time. But really just fun to do when I have extended down times. I'm not even much of a drinker, but I love all things about making alcohol for some reason.


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## Shrarvrs88

Making alcohol is a fun experiment for me, too. Time doesn't factor in for me cause it's like playtime.  

We are not big drinkers....but something about making it at home just rocks my boat.  If I was concerned about it, this counter wine still isnt crazy....I mean, mixing it and drinking it takes the most time of anything. Watching it bubble and tasting it each day only takes a few minutes.


----------



## TNHermit

I got a question. I have done cherry and blackberry and went out to get the grapes and the got stolen over night. Dang birds. Anyway the cherry and blackberry are in gallon jugs done. i put a filter in the coffee pot and poured it through then into 2 liter bottles. can I leave it in the bottle and does it have to be refrigerated.

Thanks
ME


----------



## Shrarvrs88

I refridgerate mine when it's done, and I would leave it in the bottle. mine stays in plasitc "hot mama" jars.


----------



## ||Downhome||

I would of capped ,let it settle and siphoned off TNHermit. depends on alcohol content and if there's sugar left. then you also have vinegar bacteria they can do a number on you.

if you can provide absolute sterility, you should be fine that and your sure its done working.

other wise I would treat as a short term product, unless you want vinegar? 
of coarse in either case refrigeration will slow either.

if your not aging in wood casks and such the flavors not going to change with aging.


----------



## ufo_chris

Hello,Great Thread. I have some concord grapes and will have pears soon so I want to try this . 
My Question, I want to make mine with lower alcohol content if possible, so what would I have to do to get this?
Just don't let it ferment as long?
Don't add the yeast? Less sugar?
And I can do it in gallon plastic jugs?
Oh, and do all of you use distilled water?
Thanks,Chris


----------



## Guest

Less sugar content will give lower alcohol content. You might need to research a little for the sugar content of different fruit. You can make it in gallon jugs, no problem. I just use well water.


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## ufo_chris

Hey Thanks so much Zong.
How much yeast should I put in 1 gal. jug? And what exactly does the yeast do? If I understand right, you don't have to add it ,right?
Thanks, Chris


----------



## Guest

I use a spoonful of yeast in 5 gallons so maybe a fifth of a spoonful? Early in the thread somebody talked about making wine without adding yeast. It probably takes an extra day or so to get started. I've never tried a no yeast run before.


----------



## ufo_chris

K, thanks, I'll use the yeast then.
So once you like the way it tastes and you refrigerate it, does it have to be in the fridge till you drink it or just to kill the fermentation and then it's ok to store at room or cellar temps?
Hey ,do you know how to make a sparkling wine? 
Thanks so much,
Chris


----------



## Tabitha

we just do not have enough fruit right now. Most of our peaches rotted, not enough blackberries, though long time ago DH made a blackberry burgundy that was fancy. He also made a sherry out of yellow cherries that was fantastic. we fooled company with that one. He has several books and is very, very careful. I always say he treats it like a sick horse. Right now I am more interested in making beer. We bought a couple of kits, that would prove to be expensive in the long run. We wanted to try and get our foot in. I also bought a can that must be the cake mix of beer brewing, as all you do is put it in the fermentation bucket and add water. The brand is 'Muntons', we'll start it tonight and see what happens.


----------



## Tabitha

PS, I knew a lady living back in the woods, she was a riot. She bought really cheap jelly on sale, and made a trashcan full of wine with it. Her horse liked it, too.


----------



## ufo_chris

zong said:


> I use a spoonful of yeast in 5 gallons so maybe a fifth of a spoonful? Early in the thread somebody talked about making wine without adding yeast. It probably takes an extra day or so to get started. I've never tried a no yeast run before.


Sorry is this a T or a tsp? 
Thanks,Chris

Oh ,and what happens if you use more fruit?
Does commercial wine have water added? I thought it was just pressed grapes or whatever fruit?


----------



## Guest

tablespoon. What I make, as stated more or less a quart of fruit 2 pounds of sugar, per gallon. that's going to mean 3 quarts or so of water. I put 5 quarts fruit, 10 pounds sugar, fill up the rest of a 5 gallon bucket with water, stir in a tablespoon of yeast. Cheap and easy.


----------



## ufo_chris

Thanks Zong.
Reason I was asking, I have plenty of grapes right now and wondering if more would make it better? 
Also If I use more grapes, would you use less sugar?


----------



## Guest

If they're real sweet you can. BUT you have limited grapes, why not max your potential??


----------



## 7thswan

Tabitha said:


> we just do not have enough fruit right now. Most of our peaches rotted, not enough blackberries, though long time ago DH made a blackberry burgundy that was fancy. He also made a sherry out of yellow cherries that was fantastic. we fooled company with that one. He has several books and is very, very careful. I always say he treats it like a sick horse. Right now I am more interested in making beer. We bought a couple of kits, that would prove to be expensive in the long run. We wanted to try and get our foot in. I also bought a can that must be the cake mix of beer brewing, as all you do is put it in the fermentation bucket and add water. The brand is 'Muntons', we'll start it tonight and see what happens.


I would like to try Beer. Just picked my Hops. They are drying, I wasen't even sure when to pick them,but had seen a program on tv and they putting green dry hops in a batch of beer.


----------



## ufo_chris

Are you supposed to stir every day or at all?
Also, if I use say 3 quarts of fruit per gallon, should I still add sugar?
I have a lot of grapes and don't want to start a bunch now since we don't know if we'll like it yet.LOL!


----------



## Trisha in WA

Starting my first ever batch! I had some pears that were too soft to can as sliced pears, so I decided to try this! Very much looking forward to seeing how it goes. I'll be sure to post the end result.


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## snake35

I am working off some pear hooch at the moment.


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## Tracy Rimmer

I have four or five five gallon carboys on the go at any given time. I like my wine! I also make mead and started making scrumpy this year... we'll see how that turns out.

I've also made liqueurs. Easy-peasy, but you need to start with alcohol (I normally use vodka).


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## Guest

Lordy mercy Tracy. You so far away, things are surely different there. But around here, its not too hard to find "partners in crime" so to speak who will supply ingredients if you'll do the work, for a split on the finished product. I've parlayed that into a good beer making operation. Sadly, my main "partner" seems to be dropping out, but I was surprised at how many others were willing to jump right in. Easy enough to do, but some people got more time than others who just happen to have a whole lot of sugar and fruit, it seems. Funny how that works out.


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## Tracy Rimmer

<snerk> There are ALWAYS people willing to provide the ingredients for a portion of the finished product! Too much hassle, IMHO, though. If a batch doesn't work out (hey, it happens!) people get upset. I pretty much just make for our own personal use and a few extra bottles to share when friends stop by.


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## Guest

Ahh, well, Some's good, some's better. I advise against letting it age over a few weeks. LOL.


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## Harry Chickpea

Scrumpy??? I guess I'm a virgin here.


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## ||Downhome||

Harry Chickpea said:


> Scrumpy??? I guess I'm a virgin here.


Hard Cider, here we call it Apple Jack. other places just Cider or Hard Cider.

The Pear option is called Perry. Same thing just pear Cider.


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## bowdonkey

This has my vote for the most worthwhile post ever on HT. It's early in the morning but I'm lifting a 16 oz tumbler to zong and all the posters. Thanks to all.


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## ladymother

I second that, bowdonkey!


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## sgrmtndrone

I been making wine for a few years now . I have made pear , wild raspberry , blackberry ,strawberry and gooseberry we now have 5 gal of watermelon going and more gooseberry too everyone seems to like it the best . Our adult kids love bottling day


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## Shrarvrs88

I third that vote, bowdonkey! And I wonder if it could be stickied....


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## wy_white_wolf

zong said:


> I make a lot. but some of it is made at other peoples house. I would never ever do anything to violate any of our useful and necessary laws.
> ETA: until February of this year, there were 2 adults living here. So, we could possess more. As my late wife use to say, he's the hotchie cootchie king!! LOL.


100 gallons for an individual with a 200 gallon limit if 2 or more adults live in the same household.


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## Trisha in WA

OK Here's a question for those who are in the know...how do I clean the carboys? And would I put the original mash in that or do I put just the liquid part in there after it is done? I have one or 2 plastic carboys that I got from my mom, but I have been afraid to do anything with them not knowing how to get them clean first. 
So, my pear hooch is cooking in a food grade bucket with the lid just resting on top...is this OK???


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## sgrmtndrone

Glass Carboys are best . I use a 10% bleach to clean them then purify them with Campden Tablets the tablets can be bought from any brewery supply .


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## Tracy Rimmer

Trisha -- you can use bleach to clean them if they're really dirty, then sanitize them with a powdered sanitizer from a brewing or winemaking supply store.

Never put the original must (mash) in the carboy, use a food-grade primary fermenter for that -- either one made for the purpose (also available at a winemaking supply store) or a food-grade plastic bucket with a lid, well cleaned. Never use one that was used to store pickles or anything with vinegar, though -- it will give a nasty taste to your wine.

Glass carboys are best. I've never even seen a plastic carboy, but I suspect that they had a purpose other than winemaking.


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## Paumon

I realize this is an odd question but would appreciate any answers.

Is it possible to take a white grain vinegar that has been very heavily infused and flavoured over time with fruits, spices and sugars and then convert it into an alcoholic beverage?

This vinegar is derived from grain spirit produced by the natural fermentation of sun-ripened grain. The vinegar has been diluted with natural spring water to bring it to a strength of 5% acetic acid. It is presently infusing with the fruits, spices and sugars.


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## Guest

Wine often turns into vinegar. Vinegar never turns into wine. That's the main reason to stop wine from working, if not, it just keeps on going. After my first "wine to vinegar" transformation, long before the internet, I went to the library and looked it up. The culprit is called "acetobacter" which I remember after all these years due to the silly poem I had to make up to remember the word. There's no way to reverse the process. Sorry..
ETA: In case you're wondering it rhymed with " ...face you smacked her"


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## Paumon

Thanks Zong. 

If 80 proof grain alcohol was added to it at a 1:1 ratio would the vinegar convert the grain alcohol into more vinegar or otherwise destroy the alcohol content?


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## Guest

I don't think distilled alcohol is subject to the bacteria like fermented alcohol is. so, I think it would be a nice, sour drink. Still, I think I'd do a little first just to find out how I liked it.. The process of wine turning to vinegar doesn't happen real fast, you can tell by the taste if it's getting a little bit vinegary and stop it by drinking it all up!! Or almost freezing temperatures for several days.


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## Paumon

Thank you very much, your answers are more than helpful. Your mention of acetobacter also helped me find an interesting site with good information about making vinegars. http://hbd.org/cdp/vinegar/vinegar.htm



> I think it would be a nice, sour drink. Still, I think I'd do a little first just to find out how I liked it.


I will do a little bit first. It won't be sour, it will be exceptionally sweet & sour, spicy and fruity. I'm hoping the addition of grain alcohol will act as a further preservative and extend the shelf life of it.


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## Trisha in WA

Well, our pear "wine" is tasting pretty good. I had a couple of glasses last night and it was lovely. I am shocked that I could make something drinkable in a bucket with bread yeast LOL 
I'll probably try something with apples next time as I have 2 boxes of those sitting in the extra bedroom just waiting for me to decide what to do.  
So, now I guess I should get my wine very cold for a few days (based on an earlier post) to stop the fermenting process...yes???

Thanks for the education here all. I am having lots of fun. Oh and I already make cheese, so what better to go with it than home made "wine" huh?


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## Guest

I love cheese!! Thats my next project. Yea, you can chill the wine to near freezing for several days, and it will stop working. DO NOT cap tightly though, or you may get a serious buildup of carbonation. Someone sent me some wine yeast, which I'm impressed with, Not really sure it's better, but it makes me feel classier. I'm drinking out of fancy glass jars now, instead of plastic jugs. 
If somebody sent me some cheese, every time I pray for something good to happen to me, I'd pray for something good to happen to them, too. Just in case somebody had more than they wanted or anything.


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## Old John

Well, if you don't mind using other food additives......Some wine makers use a tsp. of Sorbate per gallon, to the Wine to kill off fermentation. I do that to my Mead when it is finished fermenting, too dry and I want to sweeten it with more honey. The Sorbate keeps the fermentation from starting again and blowing up all the bottles.

OTOH, some purists would rather just drink it dry, instead of sweetening it and adding Sorbate. OBTW, it is used in most commercial bread to retard spoilage.
ETA...Chilling is Not guaranteed to totally stop fermentation, just slow it.......That's how Beer is "Lagered". When your wine warms to room temp. again it may restart the fermentation.


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## Trisha in WA

zong said:


> I love cheese!! Thats my next project. Yea, you can chill the wine to near freezing for several days, and it will stop working. DO NOT cap tightly though, or you may get a serious buildup of carbonation. Someone sent me some wine yeast, which I'm impressed with, Not really sure it's better, but it makes me feel classier. I'm drinking out of fancy glass jars now, instead of plastic jugs.
> If somebody sent me some cheese, every time I pray for something good to happen to me, I'd pray for something good to happen to them, too. Just in case somebody had more than they wanted or anything.


Well, if someone sent me a PM with a mailing addy, there might be some extra feta in a few weeks 

My pear wine turned out REALLY good. Now that it is chilled, I like it a lot! Thanks for the motivation to try and all the help along the way.


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## Capt Quirk

What is sugarhead? Google didn't have an answer that made sense.


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## Guest

Well, captain, sugarhead is when you realize where the alcohol comes from and just bypass all thst fruit and vegetable stuff and distill pure sugar. No corn, nothing. Instead of "corn liquor" its just pure sugarhead. I suppose you can make wine like that, I may try some, just out of curiosity.


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## Capt Quirk

That's what I thought, but never heard that name. What kind of alcohol would come from that? Wine or whiskey?


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## ChickenHopeful

Didn't at one time they make rum from just straight sugar? Or, an I mistaken and they used other ingredients?


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## Guest

Any time you're distilling you get basically a pure grain alcohol. Locally known as "white liquor" sometimes called bootleg or other names. If you read up on distilling, you'll soon find that you got the "head" first liquid to condense, has poisons in it. After that, you get something approaching pure grain alcohol, and as time goes by, your alcohol content gets lower and lower. Most people run the bottoms back again to strengthen it. I strongly recommend not trying to distill. The product is often unreliable, until you get some experience under your belt. It can catch on fire, or even explode. You can go to jail, and if you're in somebody else's territory, you'll wish all of the above had happened. Stick to wine, and beer. Legal, easy, fun.
Rum is made from sugar cane.


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## ||Downhome||

Capt Quirk said:


> That's what I thought, but never heard that name. What kind of alcohol would come from that? Wine or whiskey?


Neither, Whiskey is distilled and aged,Wine is made from fruit. some people classify other fermentation's as wine,but they are not true wines. IMOH at least.




ChickenHopeful said:


> Didn't at one time they make rum from just straight sugar? Or, an I mistaken and they used other ingredients?


Sugar cane juice and or molasses.


What Zong refers to as Sugar head is more properly called a "Sugar Wash" as opposed to a mash. it can be distilled down for a high proof. 

of course any brew can be distilled, when they are done making wine in certain places, they take the residue, skins,seeds,pulp (pomace) and ferment that, then distill it. the liquor is known as Grappa.

think of Sugar washs more as a "malt" type liquor with out the malt or a Distillation base.

you can remove a good amount of the unpleasant taste of the wash by filtering through activated charcoal. 
there are also tons of things to Flavor it with. You may have heard of "twisted tea" as far as I know its a mixed sugar wash.
there are various flavorings in the spice section of the local supermarket,I don't know if Watkins is still around they would be a good source.koolaid, liptons intant tea, mix it with sun tea or fruit juice as you drink it.


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## Capt Quirk

I have been thinking about Absynth for a while now, and been working on growing all the herbs I would need. Unfortunately, that was a bust the first time 

So far, all the herbs are legal, and you can add them to vodka or pure grain to infuse. Or even wine, like they did in the early days. The real recipe for it though, calls for it to be distilled, slightly less legal and safe. And then... I found a video online, where somebody used a counter top water distiller as a tiny still! It will only produce like maybe a couple gallons a day, still less than legal, but more safe  Maybe someday.


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## Guest

There was an old woman in Danville that used pressure canner and a stainless steel bowl and made white liquor by the drink!! only took a few minutes per drink.


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## Capt Quirk

zong said:


> There was an old woman in Danville that used pressure canner and a stainless steel bowl and made white liquor by the drink!! only took a few minutes per drink.


Sounds hazardous, specially after a few drinks in ya :teehee:


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## Capt Quirk

I have a question for you more experienced home brew folks. About a week ago, I started two buckets of wine. One is an improvised Sangria, made with grapes, cherries, oranges, and 2 1/2 pounds of sugar. The other is sort of an improvised apple jack, with apples, raisins, some cinnamon and cloves, and 2 1/2 pounds of sugar. These were both started the same day, and yeast was added to them both the next day. Well, the apple jack is bubbling away happily, as it should. The Sangria though, seems to have stopped the other day. Should I just sit it out, or add more sugar/yeast?


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## Guest

not enough sugar. unless you are working with pure fruit, you need plenty of sugar. My original formula called for 1 part sweet fruit, 1 part sugar, 3 parts water. basically, for 5 gallons, you'll need a gallon of fruit(about 8 pounds. loose fruit will weigh less, you have to consider the tight packed weight) a gallon of sugar(about 8 pounds also), and 3 gallons of water. and a couple spoonfuls of yeast. I don't know the quantities of anything you're working with. Last apple jack I tasted(Sunday) was made with 2.5 gallons apple cider, 10 pounds of sugar, and 2.5 gallons of water. Worked for 4 weeks. It was paralyzing.


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## Capt Quirk

The sangria was about 3 pounds grapes, 3 pounds cherries, 2 pounds oranges, and 6 pints water.

And ain't you supposed to be on your way to fix a drain?


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## Guest

Like so many other efforts of mine, all with good intentions, and my motto, "Just trying to help" that one seems to have died in the early stages. Unlike most of my home brewed products.....


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## Capt Quirk

Oh well, you tried  About the wine, you still think that 2 1/2 pounds of sugar is too little for it? That is what I usually use for a little more than a gallon.


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## Guest

My thinking is 1.5-2 pounds sugar per gallon. 2.5 pounds should make a strong, but sweet gallon.


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## ||Downhome||

Zong depends on the yeast.

If hes Using Champagne or one of those super Yeasts that could end up being very dry but around 18% alcohol content.

Quirk I would not of added the orange until after the ferment or just prior to consumption.

Citrus is hard to ferment, think its something to do with acidity.

what you could of done a little different is used orange zest rather then Juice.

try and adjust it to neutral PH. then add you yeast.


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## Guest

Lately we've used Pasteur Champagne yeast which seems to do a good job working up all the sugar. Also figured that if you save the bottom. put new ingredients in right away, you don't need to buy more yeast. However, in my usual zeal to save a buck, I found sources for quantities in excess of the average 1 batch package. The Pasteur Champagne yeast may not actually make it stronger than regular bread yeast, looking back over 30 some years of memories. I mean, it's hard to compare the buzz I got in 1981 to the buzz i get now. BUT, buy it once for a buck or so, keep your bottoms and use it again. If you plan on making it on a regular basis, that is.


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## Capt Quirk

Nice to know about the orange, just a little late... The yeast is just regular wine yeast, not champagne. Like I said, this is an experimental recipe. The wife and I both like the bottled sangrias, so I thought I would give it a go. I did not use just the orange juice, but the peel as well, for the zest. I did not check the ph level, which I should have done, but I can never get a straight ph or sg reading that matches the book. So far, that has not stopped me from making some killer wines. But, a new recipe, new lesson  At this point, what do y'all suggest I do? I believe I may have used acid blend, but can't verify that for sure.


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## Common Tator

zong said:


> day 5.5 you can hear it sizzle as it works. I'm getting excited!
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NZugib7cFbY


This video has been removed by the user.


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