# Geothermal in Northern Michigan



## WhitÂ´s End Farm (Feb 2, 2010)

Hi, anyone have any experience with Geothermal. What are the pros cons and start up costs?
Thanks for any advice.


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## Batt (Sep 8, 2006)

If you are talking about tapping into the Yellowstone caldera, then you have geothermal. Otherwise it is "properly" called ground source heat pumps.

Yes, startup casts can be quite high, but I manage to heat and cool (think meat locker) my 1600 s/f home on just a bit over $1.00/day. It costs more to keep the goat/horse/chicken waterers from freezing in the winter than to heat. When you expense it out, it doesn't take all that long to break even.

BTW...Welcome to the boards!!


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## Windy in Kansas (Jun 16, 2002)

Welcome to the forums. I hope you will participate and enjoy the various ones offered.


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## SolarGary (Sep 8, 2005)

Hi,

Here is some collected material on ground source heat pumps:
http://www.builditsolar.com/Projects/SpaceHeating/Space_Heating.htm#GSHP

It includes some actual measured performance on 5 systems in the northern US.

One thing you might consider instead of a heat pump is a packages of changes to upgrade your insulation and sealing. This can also achieve big heat bill savings and might be just as (or more) cost effective. and, you never have to replace the compressor on more attic insulation 

If you do go with the ground source heat pump, I'd put a lot of emphasis on getting a good contractor -- a lot of people have trouble with poorly designed and installed systems not living up to expectations.

Gary


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## WhitÂ´s End Farm (Feb 2, 2010)

Thanks for the input. The house is very well insulated now and heated by gas and a wood stove. Just looking at alternatives. This forum inspires so I will continue the research and interview some contractors and end users.

Really love the site. Thanks to all.


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## BlackWillowFarm (Mar 24, 2008)

The installation costs are quite high, but if you can swallow that, the savings would make up for it. We were very interested when we built our house 6 years ago, but the cost (around $10K) was too much for us.

We have an uncle who installed it in his home many years ago and he is very happy with it but warned us that it takes hours to change the temp in the home. It's very slow to respond when you adjust the thermostat.


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## MN Gardener (Jan 23, 2008)

We are in the process of getting bids for geothermal in a new house we are hoping to build this summer. The costs depends on what type of system you end up with. We are looking at a 5 ton unit for an open system (aka pump and dump) and the average of the quotes is $14,000. This is for the unit, installation and installing the pex tubes in our floor (we are doing in floor radiant heat). This is for a 2200 sq ft home and will have excellent insulation. There is current 30% energy tax credit, so after all is said and done we will have paid about $10,000 and will make that up in about 7 years. We will also be able to get a credit from our power company. Typical warranty is 10 years. As far as temp change goes, it depends on the system, if it is in floor heat it takes hours to change temp, but that is because of the in floor system. It will take that long no matter if it is gas, electric or wood because the concrete needs to cool down. If you do a forced air system, then you don't have that problem. You also need to take in consideration that geothermal can cool your house too and they have systems that heat your water too. Something to consider when you are calculating the cost benefits.
Welcome to our forums!


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## WisJim (Jan 14, 2004)

It doesn't make sense to spend the money on a "geothermal" (assume you mean a ground coupled heat pump) when it would be cheaper in the long run to build a house that is well insulated and sealed so it doesn't require much outside energy for heat at all. Proper building design and construction should eliminate the need for a complex central heating system, passive solar, a wood stove, and small propane backup heater should take care of heat in Wisconsin or Minnesota or similar climates.


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## MN Gardener (Jan 23, 2008)

WisJim said:


> It doesn't make sense to spend the money on a "geothermal" (assume you mean a ground coupled heat pump) when it would be cheaper in the long run to build a house that is well insulated and sealed so it doesn't require much outside energy for heat at all. Proper building design and construction should eliminate the need for a complex central heating system, passive solar, a wood stove, and small propane backup heater should take care of heat in Wisconsin or Minnesota or similar climates.


This is true in an ideal situation but a lot of people aren't in that situation (which is a whole different thread  ). There are costs involved in wood heat and propane. Even if you could cut the wood yourself off your own property (which isn't always available) it costs you in time and money. Not everyone has wood available to cut or a body that is able to cut it and if you use a chainsaw, there are costs associated with that. Most lender's want a "conventional" heating system in the home in case they end up having to sell it (or winterize it) if you go into foreclosure. After looking at a lot of different heating options, I feel geothermal is the best bang for the buck, even if the upfront costs are a lot.

Please do not misunderstand me, you are probably right if you can achieve the conditions you stated above, but not everyone can, especially if you are retrofitting a heating system.

I also wanted to add that the $14,000 quote I said above included a air exchanger, so I would saw it will be approx $11 - 12K for the system.


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