# "hiding in plain sight"....



## stef (Sep 14, 2002)

I think this topic has been discussed before, but any thoughts or experience to share?


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## bowdonkey (Oct 6, 2007)

stef said:


> I think this topic has been discussed before, but any thoughts or experience to share?


I have alot of things I could say about this.  Why do you ask?


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## 7thswan (Nov 18, 2008)

Is this about the Enemy Within?


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## bowdonkey (Oct 6, 2007)

7thswan said:


> Is this about the Enemy Within?


OK, I'm lost. Is the Enemy Within like a concept? Actually this is a good question steph. I asked this in a way up in CE. Ukraine and Syria, would be tough places to lay low. And it has been asked in the past.


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## Roadking (Oct 8, 2009)

Plain sight is just one part of an overall plan. Some things folks just won't pay attention to, like that old shot gun over the mantel...wouldn't think twice if it worked or not...just assume it's decoration.
Boxes of canning jars stacked and with a cloth, used as an end table, and so on.
Some things one just wouldn't consider leaving out in plain sight...gold, cash, etc.

Matt


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## greatlakesmom (Nov 14, 2014)

I've heard of people installing an extra, unwired electrical outlet to hide small objects.


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## stef (Sep 14, 2002)

Sorry, should have been more specific: hiding _yourself_ in plain sight, not necessarily your belongings.


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## Belfrybat (Feb 21, 2003)

You mean as in camouflage? A gilly suit would work in some areas to help blend in -- forests and such, but doubtful for a desert terrain. In the city, not sure there is any camouflage that would work. 
Perhaps if you were more specific?


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## 7thswan (Nov 18, 2008)

You meen like witness relocation?


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## 7thswan (Nov 18, 2008)

bowdonkey said:


> OK, I'm lost. Is the Enemy Within like a concept? Actually this is a good question steph. I asked this in a way up in CE. Ukraine and Syria, would be tough places to lay low. And it has been asked in the past.


I thought maybe she was talking about Obama.


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## BlackFeather (Jun 17, 2014)

I think she means something like how I dress. Like I don't have two nickels to rub together, (which most of the time I don't). Let me tell a story of old Raymond the first. He pulls into our driveway with a Datsun (before they called them Nissan) it was rusted out, ran on three cylinders. He got out his T-shirt was all stretched out at the neck and the shirt itself was perforated with holes. He talked to my father and afterward my father asked me if I knew who it was, I said no. (Obviously some old farmer I thought.) He told me it was Old Raymond the first. I went to school with Raymond the third. This man was worth over a million dollars back in the 70's. You would never have known he was worth so much. So if walking down the street and someone wanted to mug a person, he would be ignored because he was looking poor while the guy in a three piece suit and a briefcase would look like a good target for a mugger. I kind of think this is what the question is about.


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## joseph97297 (Nov 20, 2007)

I drive one of those Datsuns that they have labeled it both Nissan and Datsun, just depends on which side of the tailgate you look at. 

I also think that the best advice to give in regards to this topic is 'Op Sec' should be a priority. I know certain people that will tell anyone they meet about their 'prepping' and food supply, etc. I figure they like to pat themselves on the back and like the looks or attention they get.

Me, I don't tell anyone, keep to myself. One guy was at the fire Department talking about how he is storing up food little by little and the other guys make the typical :

"I know where I will be heading". 

I make my life here on the homestead just that....MY life. Don't discuss food supplies, ammo/weapons, etc. It sounds harsh to some, but I don't let my actions here make their way out to people that know where I live.


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## stef (Sep 14, 2002)

Okay...let me try again. LOL! 
I am talking about living 'under the radar'. Trying to keep a low profile, not calling attention to yourself, blending into the background, functioning, yet being unobtrusive. 
This is the S&EP forum, after all. 
I thought everyone would easily catch on as to what I was talking about.* *


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## TenBusyBees (Jun 15, 2011)

In this day and age of the internet, cell phone cameras, online banking, facebook, security cameras in every nook and cranny, satelite imaging, etc "living under the radar" is a thing of the past.

It amazes me anyone can keep a low profile.


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## AnnieinBC (Mar 23, 2007)

Wear what others are wearing, be quiet in stores. You can keep as low a profile as you like, if you want.

If you drive a flashy car or wear lots of jewellry etc...your profile won't be as low


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## 7thswan (Nov 18, 2008)

TenBusyBees said:


> In this day and age of the internet, cell phone cameras, online banking, facebook, security cameras in every nook and cranny, satelite imaging, etc "living under the radar" is a thing of the past.
> 
> It amazes me anyone can keep a low profile.


Don't do those things. I don't. I have a cell, real old flip phone,rarely talk on it. No bank, no facebook, no credit card,no thingie in my car telling me to get lost.
I've always tryed to be under the radar because I've had stalkers and "peepers" when I was young so it made me aware. When out, yes, figure that you are always on camera. Creepy I know, but it does reinforce the idea that some of us like our dogs far more than people.


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## AngieM2 (May 10, 2002)

stef - going grey.

Living where you are there but not really being noticed. Just as poor as everyone else, just as dirty if hard to find washing and clean clothing, etc. 

Just a harmless little ol lady, with her knitting and part of the background of any events that might cause concern.


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## bowdonkey (Oct 6, 2007)

AngieM2 said:


> stef - going grey.
> 
> Living where you are there but not really being noticed. Just as poor as everyone else, just as dirty if hard to find washing and clean clothing, etc.
> 
> Just a harmless little ol lady, with her knitting and part of the background of any events that might cause concern.


Good advice, don't stand out. At the same time don't present yourself as an easy target. And never ever let anyone but the most trusted know who you really are.


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## Cyngbaeld (May 20, 2004)

If anybody pokes fun at preppers in your hearing, don't get riled and try to defend prepping. Just nod, sagely and act bored.


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## joseph97297 (Nov 20, 2007)

bowdonkey said:


> And never ever let anyone but the most trusted know who you really are.


I've gone a step farther, Trust No One. 

The three times that I have been compromised in regards to security or on a personal level have been by two people that I trusted and knew for over 15 years. I have learned from that and now just treat everyone the same, as in that I don't share stuff or introduce them into my world in regards to security and the life we have chosen to lead.

I know that there will be some people that say their best friend or co-worker or whomever would never turn on them or turn them in, but if things get rough, you can not accurately nor honestly say what other people will do (only what you will do).

So, you just need to find the happy medium where you feel comfortable. You have a close friend that you feel you can trust, then share. If you want to keep it all tucked in close to your vest, do that. Everyone is different, and what works for me and what I am comfrotable doing may not be what is easy or best for you. Just sit down, talk it over with your family and see where you all stand.


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## Shrek (May 1, 2002)

In this totally connected society many claim that being totally off grid is more noticeable than just being in the crowd and will use satellite images of North Korea and under developed nations as examples, but its not anything new.

Hiding in plain sight has existed as long as mankind and guerrilla mind set.

Most defensive hiding in plain sight is a part of many employees normal days.

In the early days of my industrial career we had small rooms for our lab areas and used Billy Bass plaques as early warning in the hallways in case we were goofing off .

Later they moved us to a hanger bay sized area where all the labs could be monitored from above like mice in a maze.

When we lost our cubby hole areas and got stuck into the maze we simply traded of the singing fish plaque sentries for lab coat collections in a variety of colors so if we wanted to hide in plain sight we swapped out our engineering or supervisor color lab coat for a production line color or color from another division under the same roof like sergeants in military transient pipeline barracks would often have shirts with stripes lower than their rank and choose which they would wear or hang from their rack if they wanted to avoid transient NCO duties.


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## GREENCOUNTYPETE (Jul 25, 2006)

Stef I thought that is what you maybe meant the first time I read it 

legitimize everything you do with a reason other than I am prepping 

wear things that don't stand out as much different than others in your area but that you have selected for "tactical" value 

one example might be combat boots would stick out , but quality leather work boots is what every other guy in town is wearing 

BDUs would stick out in camo but very similar pants with cargo pockets in tan do not 

An alice pack would stick out but a Large student Jansport in navy blue does not 

A camo truck would stick out but brown one a little rusty around the edges fits right in 

actually you would be absolutely amazed where you could go in a white work van , every plumber , heating and air guy and electrician has one it seems sure many have company logos all over but a lot of them do not 

the white work van or truck was brought up in some stuff I remember reading about Katrina , people how had plain trucks or had company signs on the trucks even if they were just the magnetic type could come an go much easier form areas than others they blended in with the many contractors working int he area 


it is all about putting people at ease with who you are and why your there , and what your doing , let them check an easy box in their mental form of who is this person and what are they doing.


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## watcher (Sep 4, 2006)

Look cheap/trashy.

If you are walking down the street dressed in an old T-shirt and a well used pair of jeans wearing 'wal mart' shoes who will notice you or think you are a good target for a mugging? Do the same in a name brand 'nice' shirt with matching slacks and nikes and you show up on most bad guy's radar.

Ditto for your place. If you have a couple of nice newer vehicles in the driveway, a good looking bass boat in the back yard of your big well kept house sitting on your manicured lawn the bad guys are going to think there's got to be a lot of good stuff in there we can steal. But if your vehicles look like they have been in a demolition derby, you house looks two steps from being condemned and your yard has more weeds than grass and really needs to be mowed they are going to think that guy ain't got nothing but crap lets move on.


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## fixitguy (Nov 2, 2010)

Lay low on social media if you have a account. Don't post comments on political stuff, no pics of yourself or family, home cars etc. Don't give your real DOB, real town or phone # , or current job on FB, IF your friends want to know more about you, they can sent you a message. 
If you want to "like" pages on prepping (there are some cool ones), Also "like" something in the total other end of the spectrum. Just turn off any notifications for the stuff you really don't like.

Don't put out any political signs in your yard, no "I'm voting for this guy" signs.

As A side note on the social media.
Some of the protesters from the MOA protest were caught using their own posts from FB. They were not arrested on sight. A few weeks later some, got a nice little knock on the door. :badmood:


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## 1shotwade (Jul 9, 2013)

I attended a class some years ago put on by the FBI. As I entered the room there was a black guy dressed in bibs sweeping up. He looked like he just got finished sloping the hogs. I told him we were supposed to have a class in that room. It was our instructor,an FBI agent.I also learned latter by accident that they only drive grey or brown "K" cars.(at that time.) They stay grey.

Wade


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## Shrek (May 1, 2002)

If you belong to the NRA, do not share any email with them or place their stickers on your vehicles or storm doors as they ask in their membership packets, insurance offerings , etc. 

If you do support the NRA, it doesn't hurt to shred the old magazines when your done reading them instead of just putting them in the trash.

In this day its bad enough to maintaining a gray man existence having the postal carrier aware that you support them without openly advertising to left handed nuts that in their eyes your a right handed nut by advertising on your vehicle, storm door or even outgoing trash can.


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## Roadking (Oct 8, 2009)

Kiddos get their magazines from our recycling efforts for scouts... folks' names and addys still on the cover...:hair:

Matt


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## Dixie Bee Acres (Jul 22, 2013)

stef said:


> Okay...let me try again. LOL!
> I am talking about living 'under the radar'. Trying to keep a low profile, not calling attention to yourself, blending into the background, functioning, yet being unobtrusive.
> This is the S&EP forum, after all.
> I thought everyone would easily catch on as to what I was talking about.* *


If you want to stay under the radar, the first step would be, Quit posting on the internet about wanting to stay under the radar.


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## stef (Sep 14, 2002)

Dixie Bee Acres said:


> If you want to stay under the radar, the first step would be, Quit posting on the internet about wanting to stay under the radar.


I know you didn't mean anything derogatory by your comment. Really, my life is an open book with nothing to hide. If you read some of my comments on this entire board you can see that I'm interested in numerous topics, this being one of them. 

Sometimes I participate by answering: sometimes I participate by asking.


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## BlackFeather (Jun 17, 2014)

I'll expand on some of the comments,... rip them bumper stickers off the car. There are always people with a different point of view, or hate people for who they associate with. Like a college sticker and someone hates college snobs, or a police benevolent sticker and some one hates the police. As times get tough people go crazy. And watch out what you put out to trash. Especially if times get tough, last thing you need in the garbage can is empty food cans or Twinkie packages. Burn what you can, and smash and bury empty cans. If necessary take your garbage and dump it in a dumpster behind a store or someplace. Don't decorate excessively on holidays, if you decorate at all. Don't be like the guy down the street from us who puts out in front of his house his and hers snowmobiles, his and hers 4 wheelers, his and hers lawnmowers and so on. Watch what you say to people, like hey we just got a new TV, or I just bought and paid for a new garden tractor. Always let people know what a tough time you are having, even if your not.


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## Astrid (Nov 13, 2010)

My uncle, who is quite wealthy, looks like how you described the FBI agent 1shotwade. He wears OshKosh overalls, drives a beat up old truck and buys things at Pamida. No one would know he is a millionaire. To stay under the radar, do that.


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## bowdonkey (Oct 6, 2007)

Double post!


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## bowdonkey (Oct 6, 2007)

Dixie Bee Acres said:


> If you want to stay under the radar, the first step would be, Quit posting on the internet about wanting to stay under the radar.


Though true, I have friends in law enforcement, they pretty much know 75%+ about you if they need to know it. To stay really unnoticed, ditch anything you must register, license, insure, anything that generates a bill like power, telephone, internet, insurance, property tax. Get rid of that bank account, any money transaction, anything that generates income is monitored and probably tracked. If you take part in society, your known and watched. It gets more intrusive by the year. To stay under the radar will mean making some sacrifices and a huge change
of lifestyle IMHO. I'm turning in now and thats my bedtime story for everyone. Sweet dreams.


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## Marshloft (Mar 24, 2008)

stef said:


> I am talking about living 'under the radar'. * *


 The only way to know for sure if you're under the radar, try googleing yourself.
If you have a utilities in your name, you can be found by letting your fingers do the walking.
I googled myself last week. All my information is almost 10 yrs old.


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## sss3 (Jul 15, 2007)

Glad this subject came up. When I Google my name, my HT posts come up.


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## bowdonkey (Oct 6, 2007)

bowdonkey said:


> Though true, I have friends in law enforcement, they pretty much know 75%+ about you if they need to know it. To stay really unnoticed, ditch anything you must register, license, insure, anything that generates a bill like power, telephone, internet, insurance, property tax. Get rid of that bank account, any money transaction, anything that generates income is monitored and probably tracked. If you take part in society, your known and watched. It gets more intrusive by the year. To stay under the radar will mean making some sacrifices and a huge change
> of lifestyle IMHO. I'm turning in now and thats my bedtime story for everyone. Sweet dreams.


Holy smokes, I was a bit under the influence when I wrote that last night. Good advice though. You'll have to unplug more and get more grey as the caliber of those scrutinizing you go up.


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## tarbe (Apr 7, 2007)

joseph97297 said:


> I know that there will be some people that say their best friend or co-worker or whomever would never turn on them or turn them in, but if things get rough, you can not accurately nor honestly say what other people will do (only what you will do).


Truth is, people like to blab.

If a trusted friend busts your cover, it will probably be unintentional...but you're busted just the same.


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## Cyngbaeld (May 20, 2004)

You cannot expect anybody to keep your secret if you blabbed about it to them. Once you tell ANYBODY it is not a secret anymore.


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## GREENCOUNTYPETE (Jul 25, 2006)

I can tell you that your farm co-op know an awfull lot about you from your orders , but that they don't care , actually barring you started drying corn out of season they can generally tell you if you have a slow gas leak you can't smell

the clerck at the local electric utility asked if we had started using some electric heaters one year , we had run short on wood and it seemed cheaper than 4.20 a gallon oil , it probably wasn't by much , she said if you haven't started using electric heaters your fridge is probably about to go out.

actually any servicer knows a fair amount about you , but honestly they mostly don't care . I get to see all sorts of personal very private data every day , you know about how much of it I remember , none I want to get in fix the problem and I don't care what their medical records say yes I had to sign a form and take qa short training in how to handle sensitive date , 10 years after I had been looking at it every day and doing just fine forgetting it seconds later.

you could pay cash for everything but then you would be that person who always pays cash you stand out just as much 

heck even the Amish around here have bank cards

this is why alternate justification is the way to go


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## Blackwolfe (Sep 9, 2009)

Sam Walton the founder of Walmart always looked like a dirt poor farmer, would go in one of his stores and even the managers would not recognize him.


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## ||Downhome|| (Jan 12, 2009)

Many ways to keep your distance from people, with out raising awareness of the desire to do so.
Though the crazy nice card works the best, you know nice guy but a little touched...
don't pay to much attention and don't get him talking... lol


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## BlackFeather (Jun 17, 2014)

Marshloft said:


> The only way to know for sure if you're under the radar, try googleing yourself.
> If you have a utilities in your name, you can be found by letting your fingers do the walking.
> I googled myself last week. All my information is almost 10 yrs old.


I googled myself, I'm dead. Been dead for a while too. I was born in 1861, guess that's as under the radar as I can get. I finally found some information about my real self, my amateur radio license came up, my name and address, and I was listed in some one else's obituary, and one other thing came up but that was all. (Oh, I was named after the dead guy.)


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## Cyngbaeld (May 20, 2004)

I figure if anybody wants to find me particularly, it won't be all that hard. It really isn't somebody looking for you by name or personally that is likely to be a problem. It is the people who live nearby or those out looking for a victim that you need to avoid attracting attention from.


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## manygoatsnmore (Feb 12, 2005)

Mapquest takes you to a logging road and down it to a locked gate a mile from my house - it's always fun to wait for the call from delivery drivers that insist they don't need directions because they can just follow their GPS. 

Now, Google Earth, if you know my address, you can get an satellite view of my entire place, right down to the pool I had set up last summer. Sure glad I wasn't skinny dipping when they flew over! 

My hope to stay undercover after SHTF is that the grid will be down and no one will be able to access the internet...

After the power outage Sunday night, I know where at least one generator is located in the neighborhood. Makes me even more determined to build a generator shed and muffler system for my diesel generator. It runs very quietly compared to a gas genny anyway, but when it's quiet out at night, sound really carries.


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## Cyngbaeld (May 20, 2004)

No 911 here, so no addresses that google or any gps recognizes. No street view and the sat pix are way outdated.


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## manygoatsnmore (Feb 12, 2005)

No street view here, either, but the overhead shots were sure crystal clear.  Since I knew exactly when I put up the pool, and it was obviously still full (so it was before I drained it in the fall), I could pretty much pinpoint when they updated the pics.


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## hoggie (Feb 11, 2007)

I think the answer is to show people what they expect to see. Do what everyone around you is doing. If everyone else drives a 4x4 and you turn up in a convertible you stand out and vice versa.

Try to dress in a conventional way.

Stock up in a way that you are not seen doing trailer loads of grocery shopping at one go (unless that is the way your neighbours shop)

etc etc


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## ||Downhome|| (Jan 12, 2009)

Most people pay little attention to others.
They are more worried about themselves.

I don't think anyone got my earlier comment.
The less you interact with those who are not close the better.
But to purposefully distance draws attention.
So you do something that forces them to keep distance.
Your willing to interact they are not...


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## ovsfarm (Jan 14, 2003)

joseph97297 said:


> ...
> I know that there will be some people that say their best friend or co-worker or whomever would never turn on them or turn them in, but if things get rough, you can not accurately nor honestly say what other people will do (only what you will do)....


 From what I have seen, you can't even really know what you will do. In times of extreme stress and fear, you will find yourself doing and saying surprising things. I have seen very meek, mild people go ballistic and I have seen GI Joe types break down and crawl off whimpering. You can't really know how you would react unless you have been in the situation before and had the benefit of an unbiased report regarding how you behaved. The other thing that surprised me was how people totally misjudge how they are behaving, seemingly unaware of becoming a bully or a baby or whatever.

We can only know what we hope we would do and prep/plan/train for that, hoping that muscle memory and force of habit will cause us to react in a predictable, desired way.


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## NEfarmgirl (Jan 27, 2009)

Live using fake names and fake info.


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## NEfarmgirl (Jan 27, 2009)

I don't think you could live completely under the radar unless you are extremely good. I have a family member who used to work for the FBI and his job was doing backround checks. He could find out any info about anyone pretty easily. It scared me how much info they could gather about a single person.


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## ||Downhome|| (Jan 12, 2009)

The key is not to draw attention, Be open and Obvious.
Just not too open.
Have a way that when people do take notice or interest you can repel them,with out making it obvious that is you intent.
I can glaze peoples eyes over in a matter of minutes.
Some I put it in their head I'm a bit touched, not in a dangerous way just a bit nutty, enough they keep away.
So those who would seek to idle the day away with small talk , become passing acquaintance with a wave, offering only a smile or a wave.
Because those are the people that will blow what little cover you may still have.
After all if they are chatty with you they are chatty with other people.
Some of those others may not have your interests at heart.


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