# 22LR Head Shots NOT working!!!



## Murby (May 24, 2016)

Raised 5 pigs this past year.. they're around 450 to 550 lbs or so estimated weights.. Big animals! 

Is a 22LR really enough to do the job with animals this large? We seem to be requiring two shots.. 

I can't write this off to my own inexperience either because I sold a pig to a local guy and he had a professional come here from a well known meat packer house and slaughter the animal. The guy used a 22LR and had to shoot the pig twice. 

Is this normal for such a large animal? Should I use a 40 cal handgun instead?


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## raisinem (Jul 27, 2016)

I just shot a 700lb boar shot it ... straight down ...stick ....no problem. I would suggest maybe shooting behind the ear... .40 cal is overkill pun intended... pigs are often killed with a bolt gun to stun them just like a .22 is.


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## highlands (Jul 18, 2004)

I've done hundreds of pigs with .22LR in a rifle and it has worked every time for me. Some of them were very large animals over 600 lbs. I've used a single bullet with each pig, never had to shoot twice. Never had a pig get up. Placement is critical. It's a skill. See the cutaway of a pig skull here:

http://sugarmtnfarm.com/2011/08/20/of-pig-brains-and-tea-cups/

A heavy caliber is not good because it can over penetrate putting lead and bone fragments into the shoulder and other meat.

-Walter


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## raisinem (Jul 27, 2016)

highlands said:


> I've done hundreds of pigs with .22LR in a rifle and it has worked every time for me. Some of them were very large animals over 600 lbs. I've used a single bullet with each pig, never had to shoot twice. Never had a pig get up. Placement is critical. It's a skill. See the cutaway of a pig skull here:
> 
> http://sugarmtnfarm.com/2011/08/20/of-pig-brains-and-tea-cups/
> 
> ...


I agree... Don't know how many ive done but im sure its in the hundreds as well no getting up or two shots.


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## Gravytrain (Mar 2, 2013)

Please open Walter's link and refer to his picture and marking:

If you'll notice the room for error is nearly zero...the angle and entry point have to be just right. Look at the pink mark. One half inch higher and you are into the thick foreskull area that on a full grown pig is too thick to penetrate reliably. If you go 1/4 inch low, you are into the thicker upper snout area that doesn't even cover the brain anyway, so that's out. The only winning scenario that differs from the line in Walters cut away is a slightly flatter angle will still avoid the thickest part of the skull and will impact or stun the brain. I always aim between the eyes and about 3/4" above them...only had one mishap in dozens. Point blank with a rifle is best IMO. Get them while they are feeding or drinking.


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## bobp (Mar 4, 2014)

Growing up we were taught to draw an X from ears to eyes, the x marks the spot.


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## barnbilder (Jul 1, 2005)

Even experienced marksmen miss, and missing is the problem, not lack of power. Have killed plenty of 400 plus pound hogs and a whole heap of 1600 pound beeves, myself, with a .22 LR. Even a bull that probably hit 2200 pounds, tractor wouldn't get him off the ground. When they were hit in the right spot, they dropped like a sack of bricks, when they were not, they didn't drop. I head shot a whitetail once with a 7mm Remington Mag, guess what, I didn't hit the right spot, and it didn't go down. You can be all cute and use something bigger, but even a .22 mag can get too much penetration. It's not so cute when you take apart the sausage grinder after grinding all your sausage and find a nice smooth, shiny, lead bullet behind the grinder plate. It can make you feel dumb, literally.


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## big rockpile (Feb 24, 2003)

Killed a 1,200 pound Bull with .22 I have no idea.

big rockpile


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## mustangglp (Jul 7, 2015)

One thing to rember is that a close range your rifle will shoot low I recommend shooting it at target the same range as you will shoot the pig .


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## oldasrocks (Oct 27, 2006)

I used to do all my own butchering. I've killed up to 650lb sows with a single shot and many a beef also weighing a lot more.''Its all in placement of the bullet.

Imagine a triangle , eye to eye and from each eye to top of head.. Pop then right in the middle of that triangle. Back of the ear does not work.


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## raisinem (Jul 27, 2016)

oldasrocks said:


> Back of the ear does not work.


That is not a true statement at all if you are referring to pigs.


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## Spysar (Mar 30, 2013)

Not all 22 is equal. Try a better brand maybe?


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## Bubbas Boys (Apr 11, 2013)

I know in my experience ( 10-12 300 lb pigs) in last 3 years. I has a few misses. I have learned that between the eyes is not what works best. Has to be a little higher. Although I read that several times I still shot between eyes a few times. Not pretty when it doesnt drop them!! Lesson learned.


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## M88A1 (May 21, 2012)

You can always try a .22 Magnum


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

If a 22 LR isn't killing them with one shot, the placement is the problem.
It will probably help to not use a hollowpoint.

https://vetmed.iastate.edu/vdpam/ab...anasia/humane-euthanasia/anatomical-landmarks


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## thestartupman (Jul 25, 2010)

If you are using a semi-auto 22, it will take away a lot of the power to activate the action. You might try a single shot bolt action 22?


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## Clayjunky (Nov 23, 2016)

thestartupman said:


> If you are using a semi-auto 22, it will take away a lot of the power to activate the action. You might try a single shot bolt action 22?



The bullet leaves the barrel of a .22lr before the action cycles, this is ^^ an internet myth. No power loss. More reliability in a bolt action, but in semi-autos the recoil spring is cycling the bolt after the bullet has left the barrel, closed bolt systems all work this way. Shot placement is the culprit, the bullet will do its job if the shooter does theirs.


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## Murby (May 24, 2016)

Could using a hollow point be the problem? Should I be using a FMJ ?


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## Clayjunky (Nov 23, 2016)

Murby said:


> Could using a hollow point be the problem? Should I be using a FMJ ?



I would use a FMJ to ensure deeper penetration, its a small target, the bone frags and FMJ will be plenty if you place the shot.


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## Torch (May 25, 2004)

thestartupman said:


> If you are using a semi-auto 22, it will take away a lot of the power to activate the action. You might try a single shot bolt action 22?


*This is not true*. The blowback action to cycle a 22 semi takes NOTHING from the velocity of the projectile. The blowback action uses the force of the case recoiling from the propellant charge to reload the rifle but nothing is taken away from the bullet which has long since left the barrel.

Urban myth


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## Murby (May 24, 2016)

Clayjunky said:


> I would use a FMJ to ensure deeper penetration, its a small target, the bone frags and FMJ will be plenty if you place the shot.


Had my wife pick up a small box of CCI with copper jackets (not hollow points)

We'll see how it goes in a week or so.


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## highlands (Jul 18, 2004)

I've been using the hollow point copper jacketted .22LR for a decade with zero problems in hundreds of pig kills. If I can get it right so many times I suspect the problem isn't the .22LR and isn't the hollow point...


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## barnbilder (Jul 1, 2005)

.22 LR is not really moving fast enough for the hollow points to achieve any kind of real expansion. They will deform more, and could be deflected more than regular round nose .22 LR, but a pig shot in the right place, any deflection or expansion is not going to have time to take place, it will already be in the brain. The "jacket" on most .22 LR is not really a gilded metal jacket, they are just copper coated, or copper "washed". Some automatics don't like lead, functioning better with the copper coated ammo. I have toyed around with various drilling and splitting jigs designed to increase the expansion or fragmentation of .22 LR ammo, for shooting trapped furbearers without making an exit wound. Even with a short barreled automatic pistol, you are going to achieve three or four inches of penetration at least, which is more than enough to put down a pig, if it is shot in the right spot.


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## barnbilder (Jul 1, 2005)

Some revolvers, poorly made and cheap, "shave lead" entering the forcing cone, and have too much gap between it and the cylinder to achieve maximum velocity. This could cause problems with penetration, but usually the accuracy suffers to such an extent that penetration would be the least of your concern.


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## barnbilder (Jul 1, 2005)

A good thing to keep in mind, using the philosophy of archery hunters, don't concentrate so much on the external point of impact, as the internal trajectory of the projectile. Archery hunters concentrate on where the arrow is going to come out, as much as where it is going to go in. Point of aim changes relative to the angle of the pigs head and location of the shooter. A lot of times I kneel down to get the angle I want.


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## Clayjunky (Nov 23, 2016)

Gamo put out some hog hunting vids when their alloy .177 air gun pellet came out. Reinforces the value of proper shot placement. 

[ame]https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ugyO7dcF1n8[/ame]


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## oldasrocks (Oct 27, 2006)

thestartupman said:


> If you are using a semi-auto 22, it will take away a lot of the power to activate the action. You might try a single shot bolt action 22?


I have killed a lot of beef and hogs with a nylon semi .22


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## arnie (Apr 26, 2012)

could it be to weak of a 22 round check the Grains of the ammo ??


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## Murby (May 24, 2016)

oldasrocks said:


> I have killed a lot of beef and hogs with a nylon semi .22


I have one of those! Nylon 55 or some funky number like that.. 

I stopped using it when I bought a stainless Ruger 10/22... Pretty much everything I shoot around here is at least 100 yards out and my eyes are too aged to use iron sights anymore.

I'm still wondering if penetration is a problem with a hollow point round on a 500 pound pig.. Guess we'll find out in a week or so when I use the new rounds.


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## barnbilder (Jul 1, 2005)

Murby said:


> I have one of those! Nylon 55 or some funky number like that..
> 
> I stopped using it when I bought a stainless Ruger 10/22... Pretty much everything I shoot around here is at least 100 yards out and my eyes are too aged to use iron sights anymore.
> 
> I'm still wondering if penetration is a problem with a hollow point round on a 500 pound pig.. Guess we'll find out in a week or so when I use the new rounds.


Read my above post. Hollow point is almost meaningless below 1800 fps. Even on a 500+ pound hog, the thin part of the skull that you are missing, is really thin.


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## GREENCOUNTYPETE (Jul 25, 2006)

try not aiming , yeah I said it , had an animal in a trap and a guy trying to shoot it from about 10 feet back , he kept missing after 3 tries I took it over, I walked the gun up to about 3 inches from the point I wanted to hit , pull the trigger I hit that way every time sights no sights this takes zero skill as a marksman but it works and it seems to work with every gun every time .


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## gerold (Jul 18, 2011)

GREENCOUNTYPETE said:


> try not aiming , yeah I said it , had an animal in a trap and a guy trying to shoot it from about 10 feet back , he kept missing after 3 tries I took it over, I walked the gun up to about 3 inches from the point I wanted to hit , pull the trigger I hit that way every time sights no sights this takes zero skill as a marksman but it works and it seems to work with every gun every time .


Feed on the ground, put gun barrel few inches away from the brain just above the eyes, pull trigger. Pass gun off and use knife. Its really that easy.


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## barnbilder (Jul 1, 2005)

When done that way, it's more like playing pool than target practicing.


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## highlands (Jul 18, 2004)

gerold said:


> Feed on the ground, put gun barrel few inches away from the brain just above the eyes, pull trigger. Pass gun off and use knife. Its really that easy.


Yes, this is what I do. Always works for me.

-Walter


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

> Originally Posted by thestartupman View Post
> If you are using a semi-auto 22, *it will take away a lot of the power* to activate the action. You might try a single shot bolt action 22?


No, it doesn't "take away" any of the power since they are "blow back" designs that use recoil to operate the action. 

The bullet has typically left the barrel by the time the bolt retracts.

Velocity will typically be higher in a semi-auto than from a revolver of the same barrel length.

The only problem here is placement, not power.


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## Murby (May 24, 2016)

GREENCOUNTYPETE said:


> try not aiming , yeah I said it , had an animal in a trap and a guy trying to shoot it from about 10 feet back , he kept missing after 3 tries I took it over, I walked the gun up to about 3 inches from the point I wanted to hit , pull the trigger I hit that way every time sights no sights this takes zero skill as a marksman but it works and it seems to work with every gun every time .


When I shoot the pig, I don't need to aim.. the muzzle is only 3 to 4 inches from its head...


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## GREENCOUNTYPETE (Jul 25, 2006)

then I would test your rounds take a few short pieces of 2x4 clamp them together and clamp them to something like a saw hores hold the muzze the same distanc back form those 2x4s with the 3 1/2 inch side facing you so that your shooting through the 1 1/2 inch direction how how may inches of wood did the bullet go 

try with your old round and with the new rounds that are copper plated


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## loggerbud (Jul 19, 2014)

Make sure you have the barrel flat with its head. If you have another miss cut the head in half and see were you went wrong


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## Murby (May 24, 2016)

UPDATE:
Even though I bought some copper plated round nose 22LR rounds, we decided to just use a 40 cal handgun.

The pig dropped to the ground like a sack of potatoes.


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## Gravytrain (Mar 2, 2013)

Murby said:


> UPDATE:
> Even though I bought some copper plated round nose 22LR rounds, we decided to just use a 40 cal handgun.
> 
> The pig dropped to the ground like a sack of potatoes.


You'll just have to watch for bullet fragments throughout the jowls, neck and shoulders.


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## barnbilder (Jul 1, 2005)

Nothing like lead fragments in your meat and poor bleedout. Absolutely unnecessary. Despite all the resources available to ensure proper shot placement, and the assurances of people that have killed thousands of hogs with .22 LR. The .40 is not without fail if you miss the brain, and you have been missing the brain with the .22.


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## Murby (May 24, 2016)

barnbilder said:


> Nothing like lead fragments in your meat and poor bleedout. Absolutely unnecessary. Despite all the resources available to ensure proper shot placement, and the assurances of people that have killed thousands of hogs with .22 LR. The .40 is not without fail if you miss the brain, and you have been missing the brain with the .22.


Well, the first pig that we slaughtered wasn't even slaughtered by us. It was a pig I had sold and the buyer had a well respected meat packing company come and collect it.
They shot it and gutted it right here and they had the same problem. 

I know the guy was skilled by the speed and accuracy with which he gutted the animal.. and it took him two shots with a 22 rifle also.

I don't know what to say other than that perhaps the breed, size and specific linage of hogs I had might have thicker head bones or something... or not.. I just don't know.

One other note.. This last pig was also sold and the buyers did everything themselves, including shooting it.


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## manolito (Apr 7, 2013)

I agree on placement. I agree hollow point won't make a difference. I agree the bullet is long gone before a semi auto action starts moving. I agree placing feed on the ground puts the animal at ease and is good for the animal and you. 

http://www.cci-ammunition.com/products/products.aspx

Now I will tell you if you are shooting CCI it matters what round you choose. They make a round to fragment and it keeps ground squirrels etc from crawling off. Types of ammo available is amazing.
CCI Total metal jacket
CCI Metal jacketed hollow point
CCI varmint segmented 
CCI subsonic 
and a lot more at the attached link. 

If you use a segmented round to dispatch Cow, Sheep, Pigs etc. You are using the wrong round. Subsonic is the same a poor choice.

Opinion !!! Mine is that we can compensate for our choices by going larger in Tractor HP, Truck size, Caliber. Will this work Yes. The question remains do we want to treat our life with professionalism or not. Spend the time to practice and you will improve varmint control, Animal handlling and self satisfaction. 

Opinions are like noses everybody has one in my case my wife says I must have several noses.


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## KFhunter (Feb 21, 2010)

read this


http://www.homesteadingtoday.com/livestock-forums/pigs/545302-where-exactly-shoot-hog.html


I had a boar not go down with a .22 LR JHP CCI (not a varmint segmented round); sawed the head in half to see why it didn't go down. I think the evidence speaks for itself.

Shot placement is greatly exaggerated, you don't have to shoot at a spot the size of a dime, there is room for error. The target is more like a tennis ball if you're using adequate power IMO 22LR is under powered for an older boar. I know some of you have killed many hogs with .22LR and I have no answer for that other than you weren't there to kill my hog with your .22LR. The .22 *may* have worked if the shot was a dab lower but I contend that with a slightly larger caliber (22 mag) there's more room to get the job done.


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## barnbilder (Jul 1, 2005)

I always eat the brains. Saw enough pig heads in half, and you figure out where you need to shoot them. But you don't have to cut pig heads open. Highlands has some nice pictures linked on here. There is a spot, even on large boars, that the skull is thin, with brain just on the other side. On either side of that spot the skull is thicker. Above that spot, and you have missed the brain. Below that spot, there are sinus cavities with channels that will cause a bullet slowed down by penetrating the skull to follow the path of least resistance. Much lower, and you have missed the brain again. A perfectly centered shot, can allow the bullet to slip between the brain lobes. Usually, there is enough fragmentation of the skull that this isn't an issue. Most failures occur when an eating animal begins to raise it's head, leading to a sinus shot. If an improperly stunned animal has blood running out of it's nose, it's because the shot was low. Such a shot with a weapon with more muzzle energy could deliver a stunning blow by allowing bone and bullet fragments to damage the base of the spinal cord. Might get the job done, but you risk meat damage, and on a hog, some of the best meat on him. (Coppa) 

An old guy I knew, who had palsy, and was aware of his lack of accuracy, used a .410 shotgun loaded with number sixes. At fifteen feet, he had a good chance of hitting the sweet spot, and a single #6 shot in the right spot will achieve the desired results, and that is way less projectile than a .22 LR. Not much chance of messing up meat that way either.


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## KFhunter (Feb 21, 2010)

That actually makes sense. I see in my hog head picture the skull is a bit thinner down lower if I had hit the frontal lobe of the brain a .22 may well have knocked it down, but as I was a bit high it merely staggered it where it then ran off before I could reload. A semi auto I could have gotten 2 round in there though as he did stand there for a second stunned but standing. 


I still say for us folks who don't kill 100's of hogs a .22 magnum should be recommended.


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## Waiting Falcon (Nov 25, 2010)

I was given a hogs head to work up. The owner said he shot it from 15 ft away with a .22 which did not faze it . He finally shot it with a 9m. I found two of the .22 slugs side by side. They did not penetrate the skull. The 9m did kill the pig.
Evidently he shot it from the front.


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## highlands (Jul 18, 2004)

Problem with that statement is there is a lot of difference between .22's and a vast difference in bullet placement issues as many people have discussed above.


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## COWS (Dec 23, 2012)

I've posted this before. When I was a boy my parents had some men come to butcher our hogs(2 each year). They would kll, bleed out, scald the hog, and cut it into sections, hams, shoulders, etc. The pieces would be brought in the house and cut up on the kitchen table. chunks of meat were cut up and ground for sausage. Chunks of fat would be cut up and cooked in the iron pot. The lard would be rendered out and canned. Sometimes my mother would make lye soap from the fat meat. Anyway, the hog head was on the kitchen table and in looking at it I saw where the 22 bullet had hit between the eyes of the hog. It did not penetrate the skull. I assume the shot stunned the hog and the man finished the job by cutting the hog's throat so it would bleed out.

Fresh hog brains and scrambled eggs were mighty good. 

COWS


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## silfarmer (Jun 8, 2015)

I've shot more pigs, and cattle then you will probably ever see in a lifetime. Everyone of them with either a 22Lr. or a boltgun. Make an X from the ear to eye, and put it off center. They will be dead as a door nail by the time the gun says boom. Also a hog snare will safe you a lot of time.


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## Silvercreek Farmer (Oct 13, 2005)

I've used a .22 LR rifle as described with great results, but have switched to using one of my revolvers with either 44 special loads or light 357 loads. I drop a bit of feed on the ground the walk up beside the pig and shoot it behind the ear angling forward into the brain cavity. There is absolutely no meat damage. I started using the revolvers to test penetration/expansion of hand loaded cast bullets, but found the additional benefit of being able to holster the weapon after the shot which was handy enough to continue using the revolver.


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## spencedr (Mar 28, 2016)

highlands said:


> Yes, this is what I do. Always works for me.
> 
> -Walter


i know it is an old thread , previous years results were not good , first year 2 pigs didn't go well, lack of experience on my part, second year one died prematurely , the second pig dropped like you want them to, this year was a little apprehensive , reviewed this site and followed walters and gerolds advise , 22 lr fmj non lead round and some patience lining up the point blank shot. Dropped on the spot. 

thanks for this ...


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## SLADE (Feb 20, 2004)

throw a little grain. I put the muzzle pretty much on their head. I use an old 25/20 rifle. I go ear to eye x marks the spot. When I pull the trigger my knife is headed for their throat. Never had a problem. I want them down the first time every time.


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## Vineyard Farm (May 21, 2018)

CCI subsonics’ have always worked for us


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

Shot placement matters more than most anything else:
http://www.neacha.org/resources/Humane.livestock.Euthanasia.pdf


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