# How to get rid of a useless LDG?



## JohnHoward

So my BMC died of old age and not wanting to raise a puppy, I went looking for a mature homestead dog off another farm. Some people contacted me from a facebook post and said that had a great dog that would fit my needs. He is a Pyrenees/Blue Heeler mix about 2 years old. He seemed perfect.

Long story short, this dog is useless and lethal. He tries to herd everything, even armadillos and does not provide any protection. We have lost our entire turkey flock and most of our free-range chickens with him on the job. Just a few days ago I came home to find a whole pack of coyotes in my front yard and my dog was nowhere to be found. But this is not why we want to get rid of him.

The reason we have to get rid of him, is because this dog only hates one thing; other domestic dogs. He has attacked several other dogs completely unprovoked. He just attacks without warning or giving off any sign of aggression. And he goes for the kill. My wife has a little Shih Tzu that is inside dog that she only lets out to go to the bathroom. The LDG dog attacked it and almost killed it. Tore a huge gash in it. I have never seen a large dog that would simply attack another dog, and especially a tiny dog that presented no threat or was even paying attention to it. 

Bottom line, the dog has to go. But I have a problem. There are no pounds in my area that will take him. There is no county pound and the city pounds won't take him because we do not live in the city limits. I have called everywhere.

Obviously, the person who gave this dog to me, knew the dog had problems and withheld this information in order to get rid of him. I will not do that to someone else. This dog can turn lethal at the drop of a hat without warning. 

So, unless I get some good ideas on here, I am down to putting a bullet in his head or just driving him out into the country and dropping him off. I do not want to do either of these. I am constantly having to deal with drop-offs that other people dump in my area. But I now understand why people are dropping dogs off, they have no other choice because the pounds have made it almost impossible to get rid of an unwanted dog. They are in the same boat I am and cannot bring themselves to shoot the dog, so they just drop it off. 

I am not sure there is a solution to this problem, but I thought I would put this out there and see if someone has a creative idea.


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## Lisa in WA

If you can’t get a shelter to take him, put the dog down humanely. If it’s attacked and nearly killed another pet, I’d probably just put it down. It’s not cool to pass on a problem like that.
People who dump animals Are the worst type of people.
And if you want a real LGD, get one.
Don’t get one mixed with a different type of dog. If you want a mix, keep it within the LGD breeds.


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## GTX63

#1
Do not dump the dog in the country.


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## JohnHoward

GTX63 said:


> #1
> Do not dump the dog in the country.


As I said, I do not want to, but that leaves me with having to put a bullet in his head, which would be very dramatic for my family and three-year-old grandchild that loves the dog. This post was looking for "ALTERNATE" solutions. Guess I did not make that clear enough, as your post indicates that you think that is what I want to do.


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## Lisa in WA

JohnHoward said:


> As I said, I do not want to, but that leaves me with having to put a bullet in his head, which would be very dramatic for my family and three-year-old grandchild that loves the dog. This post was looking for "ALTERNATE" solutions. Guess I did not make that clear enough, as your post indicates that you think that is what I want to do.


You can’t take him to the vet and euthanize? Or take him to the woods alone to shoot him?


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## Alice In TX/MO

Shoot him.


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## JohnHoward

Lisa in WA said:


> If you want a real LGD, get one.
> Don’t get one mixed with a different type of dog. If you want a mix, keep it within the LGD breeds.


I do not really want a LDG. What I really want is a Homesteading Texas Landrace dog, which is the exact opposite of a Breed dog. Americans want dogs that do certain things. They want a dog to hunt birds, so they breed out all other qualities and just keep the qualities for bird hunting. They wan a LDG, so they breed out everything they don't want. This makes the resulting dog extremely unbalanced so that the dog can only function good in a certain environment for a certain purpose. This style of breeding has destroyed all landrace breeds by breeding out all good balanced landrace qualities in favor of unbalanced breed dogs that have uncontrolled instincts to do certain things. 

Having homesteaded in Mexico and In Brazil before coming to Texas, I have never had problems finding good landrace homesteading dogs that could serve as both hunting dogs, and LDG dogs, and were great pets as well. Since coming to the US 14 years ago, I have gone through a series of dogs trying to find a good balanced landrace homesteading dog. Unfortunately, Americans have gotten rid of them. The Best breed I have found for my Homesteading needs is the BMC, but they are hard to come by as adults, and I do not want to raise a puppy. 

So, while I would like to get what I really want, as you suggested (*If you want a real LGD, get one*), I don't really have a whole lot of options. Americans have made it really hard to find a good landrace homesteading dog. I am not suggesting that anyone has done anything wrong, but in my case, as a person who actually knows what a really good, landrace, homesteading dog looks like, it is hard to find something that fits the bill in this country.


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## Lisa in WA

Someone must not have told my Great Pyrenees that they were only good for one thing. Ours guarded stock, were excellent pets with our kids and functioned as watchdogs.

What have you done with the other dogs that haven’t worked out in the last 14 years.


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## HDRider

Lisa in WA said:


> If you can’t get a shelter to take him, put the dog down humanely. If it’s attacked and nearly killed another pet, I’d probably just put it down. It’s not cool to pass on a problem like that.
> People who dump animals Are the worst type of people.
> And if you want a real LGD, get one.
> Don’t get one mixed with a different type of dog. If you want a mix, keep it within the LGD breeds.


This is good advice.

I have two LGDs that could not be better, a mix of Anatolian and Pyrenees.


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## JohnHoward

Lisa in WA said:


> What have you done with the other dogs that haven’t worked out in the last 14 years.


Most of them were chicken killers that could not be broken, but otherwise good dogs, so I gave them to people that did not have chickens. One was just like this one, he was very aggressive to other dogs and even small children, but I got him at the pound, so I took him back to the pound and told them that I would sue their pants off if the adopted that dog out to another family after me telling them that he tried to attack a small child.

I have heard that Pyrenees are good LDG dogs, but they are also typically one owner/family dogs. I have strange people come to my place almost on a daily basis and some bring pets, so I can't have a dog that is anything but sweetness and light to strangers and other pets. Plus the Pyrenees is way too big for my purpose. My preferred dog is in the 30 to 40-pound range, about the same size as a coyote.

I am talking with the family about humainly putting the dog down. I guess there are no other options.


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## flewism

You don't have a buddies place you can take him to and put him down? Once a year our county will take unwanted animals and put them down for a donation to animal control.


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## muleskinner2

Shoot him.


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## altair

If you have a Facebook account, join this group of dog owners and trainers who also breed and raise working LGDs and troubled animals of other breeds: https://www.facebook.com/groups/1828786214072789/. Farei Kennels LGD Training & Education.

As for certain breeds being too stream-lined in certain fields I think more of the issue has to do with not very good breeders and owners not properly socializing and training them to be decent all-around dogs.


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## Bearfootfarm

JohnHoward said:


> I do not really want a LDG.


You don't have one.
You have a crossbred mutt with bad behavior.

The solutions are take him to a shelter where he will likely be killed, take him to a Vet to be euthanized, or put a bullet in his head and don't advertise the fact. 
SSS


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## barnbilder

I agree that the BMC is a good, American breed of livestock guardian dog, general purpose herding and hunting dog all wrapped into one. But there are bad and unsuitable ones in any breed, BMC included. The reason any of these breeds are good for anything is because people shot the ones that were junk.


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## Alice In TX/MO

Pyrenees/Heeler mix had genetic cards stacked against him. His brain doesn’t know whether to guard or herd. I have heard of MANY disasters when two different types of working dogs are mixed.


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## JohnHoward

Alice In TX/MO said:


> Pyrenees/Heeler mix had genetic cards stacked against him. His brain doesn’t know whether to guard or herd. I have heard of MANY disasters when two different types of working dogs are mixed.


I agree 100%


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## po boy

Alice In TX/MO said:


> Pyrenees/*Heeler* mix had genetic cards stacked against him. His brain doesn’t know whether to guard or herd. I have heard of MANY disasters when two different types of working dogs are mixed.


Kind of off topic, but I saw an ad by someone wanting to rehome a heeler because it kept trying to heard the robo vac.


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## Lisa in WA

po boy said:


> Kind of off topic, but I saw an ad by someone wanting to rehome a heeler because it kept trying to heard the robo vac.


Good grief, don’t they need a smack in the head?
My BC tried herding it too but we told him not to and he stopped.


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## hiddensprings

You might be able to find a recuse group to take the dog, but I'm like the others....if you can't rehome, you don't have any other options other then shooting it.


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## AmericanStand

Dropping a deadly dog in the country would be much the same as planting a few land mines at random!
Bad for you if your caught too.


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## Forcast

You have no human socity, dog pound, or animal control any place near you? Check on facebook for rescues even the sheriffs office might be of help. If all else fails a vet would most likely put the dog down for a fee. Because of the attack on the shih tzu. Only reason i asked about a rescue is they would not adopt him out if he was not safe most behavior test dogs before adopting them out. I would not adopt him out yourself for safty reasons.


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## haypoint

Instincts are powerful forces. Hundreds of years of selection for specific sets of instincts creates animals that are superior at a specific task. 

A border collie has intense herding instincts. Never get a border collie unless you have a job for them.

A LGD needs specific training and specific treatment and a place to live where their all nigh barking won't cause neighbor troubles. 

Crossing contrasting instincts is often a disaster. I know of an Animal Shelter that had a dog that was adopted and returned a dozen times. Blue Healer/ Jack Russel mix. 


I have spoken out against numerous crosses. Jersey with beef breed, draft horse with pleasure horse, heritage breed hog with commercial breed, etc.


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## AmericanStand

Yeah that problem is that a blue healer has been bred to savagely attack but not actually make contact.
Well the guard dog has been bred to never break contact.


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## JohnHoward

Thanks for all the advice. I really appreciate it.


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## po boy

po boy said:


> Kind of off topic, but I saw an ad by someone wanting to rehome a heeler because it kept trying to *heard* the robo vac.


herd


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## Evons hubby

Send the family to town. Take care of your problem while they are away. Dogs will wander off sometimes is all they need to know.


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## Danaus29

I feel for you, and realize you wanted an alternative solution. Unfortunately a dog that is not safe around other dogs leaves you only one option. Even people who don't have other dogs would have problems if any other dog happened across it's path. 

Don't drop your problem off on someone else, be responsible and do what has to be done. Sorry.


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## MeatCountry

Its very comforting to read rational responses regarding this difficult situation. Sometimes the kindest thing you can do is not the easiest.


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## barnbilder

I find it interesting that people that promote LGD breeds are also down on professional dog fighting. If a dog (or coyote) comes to attack your livestock, and your dog attacks and or kills it, how does that make you any different than Michael Vick? 

The Pyrenese comes from France, not many wolves or bears left there, basically a show breed for the last hundred years or so. No telling what traits might come out of the mists of ancestry in a giant molosser breed, descended from war dogs bred to attack and kill everything in their path. 

The breeds most used for livestock guarding in recent history are the middle eastern ones. But the coyote sized wolves from that region have long been hunted almost to extinction (by dogs actually bred for offensive flock protection, they have some of the best sighthounds in the world). The biggest threat to flocks in those regions stretching from the middle east to the southern reaches of the former soviet empire are feral dogs. In fact, to showcase the best LGD breeding accomplishments, many people in those regions stage events that would be very familiar to Mr. Vick. Some of them don't even have the dogs in a flock environment, they are kept solely for pitting against other dogs in such events. This not surprising for regions and cultures that bet on everything from camels to crickets, quails are fought regularly, scorpions, as well as the standard dog and chicken fighting.

It will be interesting to see, as all of these fresh genetics work their way in to the American Heinz 57 mutt, what wonderful traits will rise to the surface. Genetics mainlined by the backyard yuppy farmer, with five acres and two goats that they need to protect with the toughest LGD breed, because they heard some coyotes in the woods out back. Who knows, LGDs might replace the pit bull as the most hysterically disdained breed, as poor breeding and commonness works them into the limelight. A little larger, less historical selection against human aggression, it should be really interesting.


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## aart

barnbilder said:


> If a dog (or coyote) comes to attack your livestock, and your dog attacks and or kills it, how does that make you any different than Michael Vick?


Huge difference!
Surprised you would even ask....unless you're just spoiling for a 'fight'.


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## AmericanStand

barnbilder said:


> I find it interesting that people that promote LGD breeds are also down on professional dog fighting. If a dog (or coyote) comes to attack your livestock, and your dog attacks and or kills it, how does that make you any different than Michael Vick?
> 
> The Pyrenese comes from France, not many wolves or bears left there, basically a show breed for the last hundred years or so. No telling what traits might come out of the mists of ancestry in a giant molosser breed, descended from war dogs bred to attack and kill everything in their path.
> 
> The breeds most used for livestock guarding in recent history are the middle eastern ones. But the coyote sized wolves from that region have long been hunted almost to extinction (by dogs actually bred for offensive flock protection, they have some of the best sighthounds in the world). The biggest threat to flocks in those regions stretching from the middle east to the southern reaches of the former soviet empire are feral dogs. In fact, to showcase the best LGD breeding accomplishments, many people in those regions stage events that would be very familiar to Mr. Vick. Some of them don't even have the dogs in a flock environment, they are kept solely for pitting against other dogs in such events. This not surprising for regions and cultures that bet on everything from camels to crickets, quails are fought regularly, scorpions, as well as the standard dog and chicken fighting.
> 
> It will be interesting to see, as all of these fresh genetics work their way in to the American Heinz 57 mutt, what wonderful traits will rise to the surface. Genetics mainlined by the backyard yuppy farmer, with five acres and two goats that they need to protect with the toughest LGD breed, because they heard some coyotes in the woods out back. Who knows, LGDs might replace the pit bull as the most hysterically disdained breed, as poor breeding and commonness works them into the limelight. A little larger, less historical selection against human aggression, it should be really interesting.


 It’s the difference between guarding your house and eating your neighbor.


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## barnbilder

aart said:


> Huge difference!
> Surprised you would even ask....unless you're just spoiling for a 'fight'.


Explain what you think the difference is. One is using a dog bred for a specific purpose doing what it is bred to do for the monetary gain of it's owner, at the expense of another animal. And so is the other.


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## aart

barnbilder said:


> Explain what you think the difference is. One is using a dog bred for a specific purpose doing what it is bred to do for the monetary gain of it's owner, at the expense of another animal. And so is the other.


Betting on dogs bred specifically for fighting each other intentionally in an enclosed space as a blood sport
is way different than using a dog to protect your livestock from wild animals.
Keeping an LGD to chase off or even kill a coyote trying to kill your lambs is in no way comparable to Michael Vick's activities.


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## AmericanStand

Art We understand the situation but it’s why there is a moral difference that he is trying to understand.


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## altair

That LGDs are wolf-killers or raccoon-killers, what have you, isn't really the full picture. True LGDs worth their salt aren't the ones tearing through unleashed dogs or coyotes but ones deterring them from entering the property to start with. These are intelligent animals able to assess threats when humans aren't always around. Encounters are dangerous so if predators can be warned to stay away before being engaged, that's really the whole point. Secondary is, or should be, an encounter.

With any breed of anything you'll have idiot breeders, sometimes greeders, and sometimes "oopses" and all other gray areas. This is why research is important for people looking for a good breeder and why good breeders need to educate.


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## Wolf mom

Hey, JohnHoward - what was the outcome?


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## Dutchie

JohnHoward said:


> As I said, I do not want to, but that leaves me with having to put a bullet in his head, which would be very dramatic for my family and three-year-old grandchild that loves the dog. This post was looking for "ALTERNATE" solutions. Guess I did not make that clear enough, as your post indicates that you think that is what I want to do.


Take him to a vet and gave him euthanized. There is no other solution


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## Dutchie

AmericanStand said:


> Dropping a deadly dog in the country would be much the same as planting a few land mines at random!
> Bad for you if your caught too.


And rightfully so.


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## altair

Dutchie said:


> Take him to a vet and gave him euthanized. There is no other solution


There are trainers who work and are familiar with LGD breeds, even the crappy-behaved ones (the link in my prior post on page one provided some means of contact).


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## Dutchie

altair said:


> There are trainers who work and are familiar with LGD breeds, even the crappy-behaved ones (the link in my prior post on page one provided some means of contact).


I stand corrected. You are right


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## secuono

Great Pyrenees are annoyingly friendly towards strangers. I hate it. It must depend upon what is bred in your area, here, they are just giant, fluffy, stranger loving dogs. 

Shoot the dog. 

Dumping it means other innocent dogs will be mauled and/or killed and other families and kids will be traumatized. Unacceptable to spare your own to let it terrorize the countryside. Wait until they go to work and school to shoot it or take it into the woods or a friend's woods to do the deed. Or pay to have the vet do it.


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## secuono

I will add. You can potentially import a landrace dog from Mexico or south america. Just need to do the legwork to find it and then pay the fees.
Heck, you may be able to do a group import, to lessen the cost, with others interested in these dogs.


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## altair

There are Great Pyrenees owners I know of who have very capable dogs as far as protection for people and animals are concerned (state of Maine). I'm not sure if she breeds them but she definitely raises several. There are also Turkish Boz, Kangal, Karakachan, and Spanish Mastiffs I know of via reputable online groups. All right here in the U.S.

But I don't mean to derail your original post, John, and hope all is well.


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## oregon woodsmok

You might try a purebred Catahoola. Those are general farm dogs and the folks I know who have them are plenty happy with them.

The only way to have a chicken safe dog is to raise the dog as a pup and get after him when he is little and slow and teach him to leave the chickens alone. You are going to have a hard time getting a dog who is an adult who has never seen chickens before and thinking that dog will just naturally leave chickens alone.

One of the farmers in my area, many years ago, raised farm Airdales that would guard the farm, meet the kids at the bus, give an alarm bark for strangers, control vermin, stay at home, and were darn good bird dogs. I don't know if anyone is still raising those dogs.


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## oregon woodsmok

You could always import a dog from Mexico or Brazil. It's not actually that hard.


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## aoconnor1

I'm sorry to hear about your situation. What a difficult decision to make, but honestly...there is really no other choice but put it down. I would never, ever put a dog into someone else's possession that has intentionally tried to kill another one of my dogs. Next time it will be a child running in your yard, or a baby crawling across the floor. The end result will be a bad one.

All the "send it to a rescue" folks don't have to be the ones who contend with this dogs terribly bad behavior. I have been in a situation with a dog I found freezing and starving in my yard not long ago. He was a mix, Dane and probably Catahoula. He was well cared for by us, but he simply could not be off leash or he would attack my chickens (found that out in less than 10 seconds when he slipped away, killed 14 of my birds in one fell swoop that fast). He also went after my cats and other small dogs, and was very rough when he was near my small grand children, which only happened once and then he was not allowed anywhere near them again. He would chew through walls to get away from distant thunder, and was inconsolable and destructive if the thunder was closer. I took him to my vet, who insisted the dog was fine. I told them to euthanize. To my horror, I found out later they had called a rescue and they had placed MY dog with a place I neither new nor wanted. He is somewhere now as we speak, doing the same thing he did here. I hope and pray they don't have small animals or children where he went. 

I hope you don't push him off on someone else.


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## Lisa in WA

aoconnor1 said:


> I'm sorry to hear about your situation. What a difficult decision to make, but honestly...there is really no other choice but put it down. I would never, ever put a dog into someone else's possession that has intentionally tried to kill another one of my dogs. Next time it will be a child running in your yard, or a baby crawling across the floor. The end result will be a bad one.
> 
> All the "send it to a rescue" folks don't have to be the ones who contend with this dogs terribly bad behavior. I have been in a situation with a dog I found freezing and starving in my yard not long ago. He was a mix, Dane and probably Catahoula. He was well cared for by us, but he simply could not be off leash or he would attack my chickens (found that out in less than 10 seconds when he slipped away, killed 14 of my birds in one fell swoop that fast). He also went after my cats and other small dogs, and was very rough when he was near my small grand children, which only happened once and then he was not allowed anywhere near them again. He would chew through walls to get away from distant thunder, and was inconsolable and destructive if the thunder was closer. I took him to my vet, who insisted the dog was fine. I told them to euthanize. To my horror, I found out later they had called a rescue and they had placed MY dog with a place I neither new nor wanted. He is somewhere now as we speak, doing the same thing he did here. I hope and pray they don't have small animals or children where he went.
> 
> I hope you don't push him off on someone else.


Are you serious? That vets behavior is outrageous.


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## aart

aoconnor1 said:


> I took him to my vet, who insisted the dog was fine. I told them to euthanize. To my horror, I found out later they had called a rescue and they had placed MY dog with a place I neither new nor wanted. He is somewhere now as we speak, doing the same thing he did here. I hope and pray they don't have small animals or children where he went.


I assume this person is no longer 'your' vet?
Took me going thru 4-5-6 vets to get one that would come here and euthanize my old dog.
Some were downright 'shaming', finally found one with some sense.


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## aoconnor1

aart said:


> I assume this person is no longer 'your' vet?
> Took me going thru 4-5-6 vets to get one that would come here and euthanize my old dog.
> Some were downright 'shaming', finally found one with some sense.


They are no longer my small animal vets. I was appalled by their behavior, reported it to the sheriffs department, but beyond that I can’t do much else. It was the small animal vets who did this, but they also have large animal vets there and one is a danged good cow guy, so while I do not use that clinic for any small animal work, I did leave on terms that would still make it possible to have my cattle vetted in emergencies.


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## aoconnor1

And my equine vets are all good friends and have come up to my place to euthanize a couple of my dogs for me in the past. I don’t need a small animal vet for that, thankfully.


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## aart

aoconnor1 said:


> And my equine vets are all good friends and have come up to my place to euthanize a couple of my dogs for me in the past.


Wonders why you didn't go that route this time?


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## snowlady

Sister in law refused to let a dog be put down. It bit 2 people including her 3 years old grand daughter, two dogs, nearly killing one and killed a cat. But “no one speaks for the dogs” and “no one gives him a chance”. The rescue wanted him back knowing the details. I pray for the people he was passed on to.


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## Lisa in WA

snowlady said:


> Sister in law refused to let a dog be put down. It bit 2 people including her 3 years old grand daughter, two dogs, nearly killing one and killed a cat. But “no one speaks for the dogs” and “no one gives him a chance”. The rescue wanted him back knowing the details. I pray for the people he was passed on to.


people who do that don’t really care about the dog. If they did, they’d have quietly put the dog to sleep while they held it and not passed it on to an uncertain but mostly likely ugly future. They are weak and don’t want to make the hard decision.
I feel for the future victims in theses situations...but also for the animals involved.


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## aoconnor1

aart said:


> Wonders why you didn't go that route this time?


They were closer. Should have just had my equine vet come up.


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## MichaelZ

A vet will euthanize. Some will even come out to your house so you don't risk the dog attacking some other dog at the vets office. If you put him down yourself, watch yourself and know the existing laws. Some "do-gooder" neighbor might just report you and you end up behind bars charged with a felony - that is just the world we live in now. See https://www.seattletimes.com/nation...ed-with-animal-cruelty-in-death-of-feral-cat/


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## MeatCountry

aoconnor1 said:


> I'm sorry to hear about your situation. What a difficult decision to make, but honestly...there is really no other choice but put it down. I would never, ever put a dog into someone else's possession that has intentionally tried to kill another one of my dogs. Next time it will be a child running in your yard, or a baby crawling across the floor. The end result will be a bad one.
> 
> All the "send it to a rescue" folks don't have to be the ones who contend with this dogs terribly bad behavior. I have been in a situation with a dog I found freezing and starving in my yard not long ago. He was a mix, Dane and probably Catahoula. He was well cared for by us, but he simply could not be off leash or he would attack my chickens (found that out in less than 10 seconds when he slipped away, killed 14 of my birds in one fell swoop that fast). He also went after my cats and other small dogs, and was very rough when he was near my small grand children, which only happened once and then he was not allowed anywhere near them again. He would chew through walls to get away from distant thunder, and was inconsolable and destructive if the thunder was closer. I took him to my vet, who insisted the dog was fine. I told them to euthanize. To my horror, I found out later they had called a rescue and they had placed MY dog with a place I neither new nor wanted. He is somewhere now as we speak, doing the same thing he did here. I hope and pray they don't have small animals or children where he went.
> 
> I hope you don't push him off on someone else.


Something similar happened to me. Years back I bought a Great Dane from a breeder, the pup had some signs I didn't like but figured it was a transition. At 2 the dog was a neurotic mess, severe anxiety and would pace in circles endlessly. It would attack anyone holding a lead to get to me (not fun when your in dog sports.) I consulted trainers, behaviorists, vets, did medications, etc. I couldn't do it anymore I was mentally drained, the final straw was when he lunged unprovoked at 2 small children in a pet store.

I called around trying to find a vet to euthanize but none would. I took the dog to animal control but they didn't want to take him instead they called a local rescue who picked the dog up. If looks could kill....I'm pretty sure I was the most vile person on earth at that moment. I found the rescue on FB but never followed up with them, the comments were so sickening. A few months later the trainer I was working with asked if I saw the posting about the dog I surrendered. Nothing changed about the dog and he got worse yet they were still trying to adopt him out.


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## lmrose

Hearing this story brings back a heart breaking situation and a very hard lesson learned. We raised our grandson and when he was a year old I bought a 8 week old puppy. He was a Nova Scotia Duck Tolling Retriever. The pup and my grandson became constant companions and very attached to each other.

When the dog was three years old he bit a child but not hard. After that he started showing mild aggression towards anyone who came to our farm or near my grandson. So we tied him whenever others were around. We couldn't trust he wouldn't try to bite someone. He should no aggression towards our immediate family. When he turned six he started attacking chickens so we kept him away from chickens.

My husband said we were going to have to put the dog down as he was becoming too aggressive towards both people and other animals. My grandson and I were heart broken as the dog was fine with us. When the boy was three he even saved him when he had wandered dangerously close to the ocean when the tide was coming in. There was a long history with our dog.

Finally things got worse and we took our beloved dog for one last swim in the lake. It was arranged that my grandson and I would leave home the next day while the dog was put down. While at the lake a man with a dog in his truck stopped admiring our dog and wanted to buy him as a companion to his dog. I explained the problem we were having but he was sure he could handle the situation. He and his wife were alone with their other dog. He also was going hunting and wanted to pick up our dog in a week. I told him to call me in a week and went home and explained these events to my husband. He reluctantly consented and one week later the man came to our house. My grandson and I cried so hard the man wouldn't take the dog. A week later he returned and I made sure my grandson and I were not home. My husband gave the man our dog while we were gone.Where we went that day was to the SPCA and adopted a Beagle and brought her home with us. She helped fill a void. We still cried and missed our first dog but loved our new companion too.

A year passed and one day I was in town and saw a local man who collects bottles in an old grocery cart coming my way with his dog tied to his cart. Except it wasn't the dog he always had with him! A closer look and I recognized our dog and called his name. He turned inside out with happiness seeing me. He was thin and cowered and looked like he had been beaten. I asked the man where he got the dog and he said the name. It was the man I had given the dog to. This fellow carried a gulf club and told me the dog was so mean no one would ever bother him again. I offered him $50 for the dog and he said he would consider it. I saw him the next day and he said he wanted $700 for the dog. I went home very upset.

Not one to give up I returned the following day and saw the man's grocery cart parked in front of the court house dog tied to the cart. I leaped into action and ran to the dog and untied him and ran calling him to follow me straight to my son's apartment. I gave my dog a bath and called a neighbor to pick us up and I took him home. That very night it was raining hard the man with the cart was hit by a truck and died while out looking for the dog. An article came out in the local paper the next week and everyone was wondering what happened to the man's dog?

A high school student saw me take the dog and called the police who soon were knocking on my door. I told them I had given the man a $50 check which was true but I didn't tell them he tore the check up! This man had one relative who was contacted but he didn't want the dog. The police gave me a verbal warning that I could have been arrested for stealing the dog but since I gave the man a$50 check they wouldn't arrest me.

In the mean time our dog went from being mild mannered to aggression in unexpected bursts. He attacked our new dog and finally the last straw came. We were at the lake camping and our dog was swimming in the lake happily just like when he was younger. He came out of the lake snarling and approaching us ready to attack. I stepped between him and my grandson speaking quietly to him. He calmed and I leashed him and took him home. My husband put him down that evening.

Rightly so he told me he hoped I had learned my lesson that sometimes as hard as it is animals need to be destroyed when a danger to other animals or people. People like me get so attached to pets that we lose sight of the fact animals are not people and we are responsible for them and even their actions. It is a judgement call that is hard to make but necessary at times.

We have had dogs since then and they lived out their lives. My grandson grew up and has a family of his own but when he came to visit he told his wife about his dog. How his dog saved his life when he was three years old. He told about all the good times and fun they had together and answered the inevitable question. What happened to your dog? He said; "They killed my dog" but explained why. It was an awful moment.

The worse I live with is would the old man; even though he had been so abusive to the dog; would he still be alive had he not been out that black, rainy night looking for the dog? Had I listened three years prior when my husband wanted to put the dog down the rest never would have happened.

I would implore anyone if you have an aggressive animal put it down before someone gets seriously hurt. Don't turn it loose, sell it or give it away as was my case.If there is no other choice a bullet is quick and merciful.It isn't worth the anguish and heart break that was caused and in the end the inevitable happened.


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## muleskinner2

Keeping livestock, and pets is a responsibility. People who say that they just can't put down a dog, or want to give them a second, third, or fourth chance. And then dump them off on someone else, or a rescue, shouldn't have animals in the first place. The real world isn't all cookies and cool aid. If you have animals sooner or later hard decisions will have to be made.

Animal control and rescues exist because whiners and cowards won't take responsibility for their own problems. It is beyond comprehension that a grown adult would even have to ask what should be done with a dog they couldn't control. If a dog bites a child, kills chickens, lunges at people, or is in general dangerous, shoot the dog. Don't farm it out, don't dump it off on someone else. Stand up, grow a pair, and do what has to be done.

I am sure this will be deleted, but I just couldn't keep still any longer.


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## Jreed

a high drive heeler and mixed with a guardian dog genetics, supposed to be low drive except for deterrent duties. What did you expect was going to happen from this awful mix of genetic nonsense?


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## JohnHoward

muleskinner2 said:


> Keeping livestock, and pets is a responsibility. People who say that they just can't put down a dog, or want to give them a second, third, or fourth chance. And then dump them off on someone else, or a rescue, shouldn't have animals in the first place. The real world isn't all cookies and cool aid. If you have animals sooner or later hard decisions will have to be made.
> 
> Animal control and rescues exist because whiners and cowards won't take responsibility for their own problems. It is beyond comprehension that a grown adult would even have to ask what should be done with a dog they couldn't control. If a dog bites a child, kills chickens, lunges at people, or is in general dangerous, shoot the dog. Don't farm it out, don't dump it off on someone else. Stand up, grow a pair, and do what has to be done.
> 
> I am sure this will be deleted, but I just couldn't keep still any longer.


Assume much, friend? I have put down several of my own dogs, including this one (45 hollowpoint). Just because I don't enjoy it and would rather not if at all possible, does not mean I won't if I have no other option. Some of us don't derive joy and pride out of shooting our own pets like you.


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## muleskinner2

JohnHoward said:


> Assume much, friend? I have put down several of my own dogs, including this one (45 hollowpoint). Just because I don't enjoy it and would rather not if at all possible, does not mean I won't if I have no other option. Some of us don't derive joy and pride out of shooting our own pets like you.


Who told you that I liked putting an animal down. I have put down more than just a few of my pets, horses, mules, and dogs. And I cry like a little girl every time.


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## Danaus29

How is the little Shih Tzu doing? I hope it is recovering.


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## JohnHoward

muleskinner2 said:


> Who told you that I liked putting an animal down. I have put down more than just a few of my pets, horses, mules, and dogs. And I cry like a little girl every time.


Just reading your own comment on how you think people need to "Grow a pair" like you. That is an arrogant boastful statement.

Don't post rude judgmental comments if you don't want people to read them and make assessments about your personality from them.


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## Grandmotherbear

Maybe try raising geese? I understand they are pretty aggressive.


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## muleskinner2

JohnHoward said:


> Just reading your own comment on how you think people need to "Grow a pair" like you. That is an arrogant boastful statement.
> 
> Don't post rude judgmental comments if you don't want people to read them and make assessments about your personality from them.


I'm sorry I must have misunderstood. And thank you for your interest in my personality. People do need to grow a pair, and take responsibility for their actions, pets, livestock, and kids. And anyone who doesn't is a coward. You are right, I am sometimes arrogant and boastful. You say that like it's a bad thing.


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## AmericanStand

Good looking dog but remember if she’s a chicken killer she’ll kill the neighbors chickens to


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## Evons hubby

muleskinner2 said:


> I'm sorry I must have misunderstood. And thank you for your interest in my personality. People do need to grow a pair, and take responsibility for their actions, pets, livestock, and kids. And anyone who doesn't is a coward. *You are right, I am sometimes arrogant and boastful. *You say that like it's a bad thing.


wrong words there... A man who is confident and honest about things is a man that commands respect. Arrogant and boastful is a whole nuther thing. I've been reading your posts here for a long time... I find you to be confident and honest. I also think you check to be sure the mule is dead before you embark upon skinning it.


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## barnbilder

JohnHoward said:


> Oh my! I feel really sorry for you in the current political environment. I have just turned it off and tuned it out. It is beyond description. Insanity is the only word that comes close to describing it. I have enough problems without adding all that mess to my plate.
> 
> Like today, for example. I have been out of town for two days. I came back to find my whole chicken flock massacred in their pens. There was my new dog in the pens with feathers in her mouth. I am not a vulgar person, but this just about drove me to the point of saying things that I would need to ask forgiveness for. After the last dog that was the reason for this thread "Ran Away" , a drop off showed up on my land. A young dog of unknown breeding, but super sweet. I had my sights on her to shoot her, but she just stood there and looked at me. So, I did not shoot her and thought I would try to see if she came off of a nearby farm. I put out a notice to the locals hoping to find her owner, but as I expected she was a drop off. She is young and about the size of a large coyote, which is my preferred size of dog, and the whole family took to her, immediately. My best guess for her breed is maybe a Chocolate Lab/ Whippet cross. She is a slender Pettit dog.
> 
> View attachment 82188
> View attachment 82190
> 
> 
> She is a good barker and has been really good for the last couple of months since she showed up. Never one sign of a desire to hunt or go after anything. Now she wipes out my whole chicken flock in one fail swoop. I am so tired of this crap, I can't stand it. I lived in the Amazon for 20 years and had chickens and dogs that ran free with each other and never not once had a problem. But these American dogs are nuts man. I don't know what Americans have done to dogs, but they have all but ruined dogs for general homesteading farm needs. It is really sad. This is like the umteenth dog I have tried in the last 14 years since I moved here that is a chicken killer. I never had this problem in South America.
> 
> But since I have no more chickens, I think I will keep her. My grandson loves her to death and he is just now getting over the sudden disappearance of the last dog that Ran Away. Dang chickens were costing too much and not producing enough anyway. Maybe she did me a favor. Either that or I am losing my mind. LOL!


You answered your own question about why American dogs are nuts. People in Brazil would cut the dogs throat, while the grandson watched, and his tears would be dried up by the words "had to do it because she is a chicken killer". You have to kill a lot of dogs to breed decent dogs, and that isn't done in this country any more. What often happens, is that somebody "loves" the dog (a silly notion for a working animal) so instead of killing it because it is not right, or at the very least not ever considering breeding it, they in fact breed it so that it can pass on it's bad traits. Many breeds have been "loved to death". If you love something, sometimes you have to kill it.


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## Danaus29

JohnHoward said:


> The reason we have to get rid of him, is because this dog only hates one thing; other domestic dogs. He has attacked several other dogs completely unprovoked. He just attacks without warning or giving off any sign of aggression. And he goes for the kill. My wife has a little Shih Tzu that is inside dog that she only lets out to go to the bathroom. The LDG dog attacked it and almost killed it. Tore a huge gash in it. I have never seen a large dog that would simply attack another dog, and especially a tiny dog that presented no threat or was even paying attention to it.
> 
> Obviously, the person who gave this dog to me, knew the dog had problems and withheld this information in order to get rid of him. I will not do that to someone else. This dog can turn lethal at the drop of a hat without warning.
> 
> So, unless I get some good ideas on here, I am down to putting a bullet in his head or just driving him out into the country and dropping him off. I do not want to do either of these. I am constantly having to deal with drop-offs that other people dump in my area. But I now understand why people are dropping dogs off, they have no other choice because the pounds have made it almost impossible to get rid of an unwanted dog. They are in the same boat I am and cannot bring themselves to shoot the dog, so they just drop it off.
> 
> I am not sure there is a solution to this problem, but I thought I would put this out there and see if someone has a creative idea.


You stated your options were putting the dog down or dropping it off on someone else. People who drop off unwanted and potentially dangerous animals on other people are not "decent" people. You stated you have had to deal with drop offs yet your other option is to drop off a dangerous dog on some unsuspecting person. I get that no shelter would take the dog, happens all the time here. Shelters are overflowing with dogs that were poorly bred and have not been trained or socialized. The previous owner of your dog was lazy and irresponsible. They should have taken care of the problem themselves. But just because they were irresponsible does not give you or any other person the right to pass the problem along. Shooting a dangerous dog is sometimes necessary. But we do it to protect our families, pets or livestock. It is a distasteful task that is occasionally required. Just because we do that job does not mean that any of us find pleasure in it. But to allow another persons pet to be injured or killed because someone determines a dangerous dog is more important is simply irresponsible and cowardly.

Besides, in many areas dropping off animals is illegal. In some places you can go to jail for dropping off animals. In many ways dropping an animal is the most horrible form of cruelty. No food, water, shelter. It would be in danger from wild animals or other people protecting their animals. Much better to give the dog a wonderful last meal, a good scratch between the ears and a pat on the back and simply done than to let it try to survive in a strange place with absolutely no survival skills, looking desperately for the people it depended on for food and comfort.


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## 397950

So I prefer most dogs to most people but I have to say in this case, if you can't deal w/ putting this one down yourself, a visit to an understanding vet is in order.

I also think, to help prevent others from getting saddled with such a situation, some information on the animal's source should be shared; the people who stuck you w/ this problem knew exactly what you were getting.


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## muleskinner2

JohnHoward said:


> Assume much


Yes I do, and so do you. The difference is, I don't lie to myself or anyone else about it.


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## jewel777

JohnHoward said:


> So my BMC died of old age and not wanting to raise a puppy, I went looking for a mature homestead dog off another farm. Some people contacted me from a facebook post and said that had a great dog that would fit my needs. He is a Pyrenees/Blue Heeler mix about 2 years old. He seemed perfect.
> 
> Long story short, this dog is useless and lethal. He tries to herd everything, even armadillos and does not provide any protection. We have lost our entire turkey flock and most of our free-range chickens with him on the job. Just a few days ago I came home to find a whole pack of coyotes in my front yard and my dog was nowhere to be found. But this is not why we want to get rid of him.
> 
> The reason we have to get rid of him, is because this dog only hates one thing; other domestic dogs. He has attacked several other dogs completely unprovoked. He just attacks without warning or giving off any sign of aggression. And he goes for the kill. My wife has a little Shih Tzu that is inside dog that she only lets out to go to the bathroom. The LDG dog attacked it and almost killed it. Tore a huge gash in it. I have never seen a large dog that would simply attack another dog, and especially a tiny dog that presented no threat or was even paying attention to it.
> 
> Bottom line, the dog has to go. But I have a problem. There are no pounds in my area that will take him. There is no county pound and the city pounds won't take him because we do not live in the city limits. I have called everywhere.
> 
> Obviously, the person who gave this dog to me, knew the dog had problems and withheld this information in order to get rid of him. I will not do that to someone else. This dog can turn lethal at the drop of a hat without warning.
> 
> So, unless I get some good ideas on here, I am down to putting a bullet in his head or just driving him out into the country and dropping him off. I do not want to do either of these. I am constantly having to deal with drop-offs that other people dump in my area. But I now understand why people are dropping dogs off, they have no other choice because the pounds have made it almost impossible to get rid of an unwanted dog. They are in the same boat I am and cannot bring themselves to shoot the dog, so they just drop it off.
> 
> I am not sure there is a solution to this problem, but I thought I would put this out there and see if someone has a creative idea.


Seems to be a bad mix. I never did like blue heeler mixes.


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## muleskinner2

Yvonne's hubby said:


> wrong words there... A man who is confident and honest about things is a man that commands respect. Arrogant and boastful is a whole nuther thing. I've been reading your posts here for a long time... I find you to be confident and honest. I also think you check to be sure the mule is dead before you embark upon skinning it.


Thank you for your assessment, although I am not sure I am deserving of it.


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## audacity

JohnHoward said:


> So, unless I get some good ideas on here, I am down to putting a bullet in his head or just driving him out into the country and dropping him off. I do not want to do either of these. I am constantly having to deal with drop-offs that other people dump in my area. But I now understand why people are dropping dogs off, they have no other choice because the pounds have made it almost impossible to get rid of an unwanted dog. They are in the same boat I am and cannot bring themselves to shoot the dog, so they just drop it off.
> 
> I am not sure there is a solution to this problem, but I thought I would put this out there and see if someone has a creative idea.



The dog is highly _dog-aggressive_. You can't train that out, and frankly, the people you got it from likely knew it was dog aggressive even if they didn't own any other dogs, and they should have told you. Not sure how you got in touch with them, but I'd make sure others are aware if you see them adopting out any other dogs.

You should NOT take it to a shelter, even if you find one open. Assuming it gets put up for adoption, odds are great that they won't advise people that he's dog-aggressive or they'll place him in a "no other dogs" home with people who don't understand the seriousness of this dog's behavior.

*Please*, whatever you decide to do, _do NOT dump this dog off somewhere_! That is BEYOND cruel. I personally find myself wanting to beat the ever-living daylights out of the human beings who intentionally do this, with a 2-by-4 embedded with half-molten nails (well, I will dream about it, anyway). Most of these dogs end up killing other people's pets, getting shot by neighbors and bleeding out in the woods, dying to infection, or starving. It's not giving the dog a chance, it's just evil.

Personally, you have (edited) three options:

1. Humane euthanasia -- even if you choose not to rely on a vet for this, you dispatching the dog while it's calm is significantly kinder to it getting gut-shot and left to die in the woods.

or,

2. Reach out a rescue who may be able to put you in contact with someone who is _experienced_ with dealing with dog aggression.

or,

3. Return the dog to the people you got it from. Tell them the problem and leave it on their porch.


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## AmericanStand

muleskinner2 said:


> Who told you that I liked putting an animal down. I have put down more than just a few of my pets, horses, mules, and dogs. And I cry like a little girl every time.


 There are jobs that we hate that are parts of things we love. 
I like the Indian tradition of saying a prayer for the soul of the animals we kill to live. 
A old Indian Friend caught me crying and saying a prayer for The soul of a moose .
We wound up having a discussion about it ,out of respect I asked him if I was doing it right. 
He explained to me that the mousses soul was complete. 
That it was from my soul the prayer was said.


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## JohnHoward

Danaus29 said:


> You stated your options were putting the dog down or dropping it off on someone else. People who drop off unwanted and potentially dangerous animals on other people are not "decent" people. You stated you have had to deal with drop offs yet your other option is to drop off a dangerous dog on some unsuspecting person. I get that no shelter would take the dog, happens all the time here. Shelters are overflowing with dogs that were poorly bred and have not been trained or socialized. The previous owner of your dog was lazy and irresponsible. They should have taken care of the problem themselves. But just because they were irresponsible does not give you or any other person the right to pass the problem along. Shooting a dangerous dog is sometimes necessary. But we do it to protect our families, pets or livestock. It is a distasteful task that is occasionally required. Just because we do that job does not mean that any of us find pleasure in it. But to allow another persons pet to be injured or killed because someone determines a dangerous dog is more important is simply irresponsible and cowardly.
> 
> Besides, in many areas dropping off animals is illegal. In some places you can go to jail for dropping off animals. In many ways dropping an animal is the most horrible form of cruelty. No food, water, shelter. It would be in danger from wild animals or other people protecting their animals. Much better to give the dog a wonderful last meal, a good scratch between the ears and a pat on the back and simply done than to let it try to survive in a strange place with absolutely no survival skills, looking desperately for the people it depended on for food and comfort.


There is a severe lack of reading comprehension on your part here. Go back and read my OP. I think you will find that if, you pay attention, I never said that I was going to drop this dog off. It is pretty clear. I said it was an option I did not want to choose. 

You need to understand that online content is permanent. What you say online can come back to bite you years down the road. In many cities and states, it is illegal to shoot your own dog, regardless of the reason. The law requires you to have the animal put down by a vet. Because of this, I carefully worded my OP so as not to blatantly say that I was going to shoot the dog. But for some reason, people on internet forums these days have lost the ability to read between the lines. Lol!


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## Alice In TX/MO

I could go ALL English teacher on this. I won’t.


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## Danaus29

JohnHoward said:


> or just driving him out into the country and dropping him off.


Well my mistake then. I was sure the line above was from your original post.


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## Alice In TX/MO

Only if you edit out the next sentence and the whole reason for the post.


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## Danaus29

Alice In TX/MO said:


> Only if you edit out the next sentence and the whole reason for the post.


"I do not want to do either of these"
I am very much aware of the whole post. And I agree with having to shoot the dog being a distasteful chore, but it is much more humane than the alternative option which is what I stated. 

The dog could not be trusted around the op's other dog. How do you rehome a dog which is known to be dangerous? How do you handle the dangerous dog while you search for a suitable home? How can you be sure any new owner would ensure that the dog would never be around another dog? You can't, which leaves only one option, 2 if you can find a vet that would do the job.


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## JohnHoward

Alice In TX/MO said:


> Only if you edit out the next sentence and the whole reason for the post.


Thanks for the support, but I am sure you are aware that modern Americans lack the capacity to admit when they have made a mistake and insist that they know better what you meant to say than you do yourself. LOL!


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## Alice In TX/MO

Yes. As a former English teacher and debate coach, I find it very frustrating.


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## JohnHoward

Alice In TX/MO said:


> Yes. As a former English teacher and debate coach, I find it very frustrating.


Oh my! I feel really sorry for you in the current political environment. I have just turned it off and tuned it out. It is beyond description. Insanity is the only word that comes close to describing it. I have enough problems without adding all that mess to my plate. 

Like today, for example. I have been out of town for two days. I came back to find my whole chicken flock massacred in their pens. There was my new dog in the pens with feathers in her mouth. I am not a vulgar person, but this just about drove me to the point of saying things that I would need to ask forgiveness for. After the last dog that was the reason for this thread "Ran Away" , a drop off showed up on my land. A young dog of unknown breeding, but super sweet. I had my sights on her to shoot her, but she just stood there and looked at me. So, I did not shoot her and thought I would try to see if she came off of a nearby farm. I put out a notice to the locals hoping to find her owner, but as I expected she was a drop off. She is young and about the size of a large coyote, which is my preferred size of dog, and the whole family took to her, immediately. My best guess for her breed is maybe a Chocolate Lab/ Whippet cross. She is a slender Pettit dog.















She is a good barker and has been really good for the last couple of months since she showed up. Never one sign of a desire to hunt or go after anything. Now she wipes out my whole chicken flock in one fail swoop. I am so tired of this crap, I can't stand it. I lived in the Amazon for 20 years and had chickens and dogs that ran free with each other and never not once had a problem. But these American dogs are nuts man. I don't know what Americans have done to dogs, but they have all but ruined dogs for general homesteading farm needs. It is really sad. This is like the umteenth dog I have tried in the last 14 years since I moved here that is a chicken killer. I never had this problem in South America. 

But since I have no more chickens, I think I will keep her. My grandson loves her to death and he is just now getting over the sudden disappearance of the last dog that Ran Away. Dang chickens were costing too much and not producing enough anyway. Maybe she did me a favor. Either that or I am losing my mind. LOL!


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## Alice In TX/MO

Yeah. She did you a favor. Having a dog that is bonded with your grandson is more valuable than chickens.


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## JohnHoward

Alice In TX/MO said:


> Yeah. She did you a favor. Having a dog that is bonded with your grandson is more valuable than chickens.


Yes. He named her "Malassie" (he is 3). I think it is a good name that fits her.


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## JohnHoward

So my BMC died of old age and not wanting to raise a puppy, I went looking for a mature homestead dog off another farm. Some people contacted me from a facebook post and said that had a great dog that would fit my needs. He is a Pyrenees/Blue Heeler mix about 2 years old. He seemed perfect.

Long story short, this dog is useless and lethal. He tries to herd everything, even armadillos and does not provide any protection. We have lost our entire turkey flock and most of our free-range chickens with him on the job. Just a few days ago I came home to find a whole pack of coyotes in my front yard and my dog was nowhere to be found. But this is not why we want to get rid of him.

The reason we have to get rid of him, is because this dog only hates one thing; other domestic dogs. He has attacked several other dogs completely unprovoked. He just attacks without warning or giving off any sign of aggression. And he goes for the kill. My wife has a little Shih Tzu that is inside dog that she only lets out to go to the bathroom. The LDG dog attacked it and almost killed it. Tore a huge gash in it. I have never seen a large dog that would simply attack another dog, and especially a tiny dog that presented no threat or was even paying attention to it. 

Bottom line, the dog has to go. But I have a problem. There are no pounds in my area that will take him. There is no county pound and the city pounds won't take him because we do not live in the city limits. I have called everywhere.

Obviously, the person who gave this dog to me, knew the dog had problems and withheld this information in order to get rid of him. I will not do that to someone else. This dog can turn lethal at the drop of a hat without warning. 

So, unless I get some good ideas on here, I am down to putting a bullet in his head or just driving him out into the country and dropping him off. I do not want to do either of these. I am constantly having to deal with drop-offs that other people dump in my area. But I now understand why people are dropping dogs off, they have no other choice because the pounds have made it almost impossible to get rid of an unwanted dog. They are in the same boat I am and cannot bring themselves to shoot the dog, so they just drop it off. 

I am not sure there is a solution to this problem, but I thought I would put this out there and see if someone has a creative idea.


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## Lisa in WA

If you can’t get a shelter to take him, put the dog down humanely. If it’s attacked and nearly killed another pet, I’d probably just put it down. It’s not cool to pass on a problem like that.
People who dump animals Are the worst type of people.
And if you want a real LGD, get one.
Don’t get one mixed with a different type of dog. If you want a mix, keep it within the LGD breeds.


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## GTX63

#1
Do not dump the dog in the country.


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## JohnHoward

GTX63 said:


> #1
> Do not dump the dog in the country.


As I said, I do not want to, but that leaves me with having to put a bullet in his head, which would be very dramatic for my family and three-year-old grandchild that loves the dog. This post was looking for "ALTERNATE" solutions. Guess I did not make that clear enough, as your post indicates that you think that is what I want to do.


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## Lisa in WA

JohnHoward said:


> As I said, I do not want to, but that leaves me with having to put a bullet in his head, which would be very dramatic for my family and three-year-old grandchild that loves the dog. This post was looking for "ALTERNATE" solutions. Guess I did not make that clear enough, as your post indicates that you think that is what I want to do.


You can’t take him to the vet and euthanize? Or take him to the woods alone to shoot him?


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## Alice In TX/MO

Shoot him.


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## JohnHoward

Lisa in WA said:


> If you want a real LGD, get one.
> Don’t get one mixed with a different type of dog. If you want a mix, keep it within the LGD breeds.


I do not really want a LDG. What I really want is a Homesteading Texas Landrace dog, which is the exact opposite of a Breed dog. Americans want dogs that do certain things. They want a dog to hunt birds, so they breed out all other qualities and just keep the qualities for bird hunting. They wan a LDG, so they breed out everything they don't want. This makes the resulting dog extremely unbalanced so that the dog can only function good in a certain environment for a certain purpose. This style of breeding has destroyed all landrace breeds by breeding out all good balanced landrace qualities in favor of unbalanced breed dogs that have uncontrolled instincts to do certain things. 

Having homesteaded in Mexico and In Brazil before coming to Texas, I have never had problems finding good landrace homesteading dogs that could serve as both hunting dogs, and LDG dogs, and were great pets as well. Since coming to the US 14 years ago, I have gone through a series of dogs trying to find a good balanced landrace homesteading dog. Unfortunately, Americans have gotten rid of them. The Best breed I have found for my Homesteading needs is the BMC, but they are hard to come by as adults, and I do not want to raise a puppy. 

So, while I would like to get what I really want, as you suggested (*If you want a real LGD, get one*), I don't really have a whole lot of options. Americans have made it really hard to find a good landrace homesteading dog. I am not suggesting that anyone has done anything wrong, but in my case, as a person who actually knows what a really good, landrace, homesteading dog looks like, it is hard to find something that fits the bill in this country.


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## Lisa in WA

Someone must not have told my Great Pyrenees that they were only good for one thing. Ours guarded stock, were excellent pets with our kids and functioned as watchdogs.

What have you done with the other dogs that haven’t worked out in the last 14 years.


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## HDRider

Lisa in WA said:


> If you can’t get a shelter to take him, put the dog down humanely. If it’s attacked and nearly killed another pet, I’d probably just put it down. It’s not cool to pass on a problem like that.
> People who dump animals Are the worst type of people.
> And if you want a real LGD, get one.
> Don’t get one mixed with a different type of dog. If you want a mix, keep it within the LGD breeds.


This is good advice.

I have two LGDs that could not be better, a mix of Anatolian and Pyrenees.


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## JohnHoward

Lisa in WA said:


> What have you done with the other dogs that haven’t worked out in the last 14 years.


Most of them were chicken killers that could not be broken, but otherwise good dogs, so I gave them to people that did not have chickens. One was just like this one, he was very aggressive to other dogs and even small children, but I got him at the pound, so I took him back to the pound and told them that I would sue their pants off if the adopted that dog out to another family after me telling them that he tried to attack a small child.

I have heard that Pyrenees are good LDG dogs, but they are also typically one owner/family dogs. I have strange people come to my place almost on a daily basis and some bring pets, so I can't have a dog that is anything but sweetness and light to strangers and other pets. Plus the Pyrenees is way too big for my purpose. My preferred dog is in the 30 to 40-pound range, about the same size as a coyote.

I am talking with the family about humainly putting the dog down. I guess there are no other options.


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## flewism

You don't have a buddies place you can take him to and put him down? Once a year our county will take unwanted animals and put them down for a donation to animal control.


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## muleskinner2

Shoot him.


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## altair

If you have a Facebook account, join this group of dog owners and trainers who also breed and raise working LGDs and troubled animals of other breeds: https://www.facebook.com/groups/1828786214072789/. Farei Kennels LGD Training & Education.

As for certain breeds being too stream-lined in certain fields I think more of the issue has to do with not very good breeders and owners not properly socializing and training them to be decent all-around dogs.


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## Bearfootfarm

JohnHoward said:


> I do not really want a LDG.


You don't have one.
You have a crossbred mutt with bad behavior.

The solutions are take him to a shelter where he will likely be killed, take him to a Vet to be euthanized, or put a bullet in his head and don't advertise the fact. 
SSS


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## barnbilder

I agree that the BMC is a good, American breed of livestock guardian dog, general purpose herding and hunting dog all wrapped into one. But there are bad and unsuitable ones in any breed, BMC included. The reason any of these breeds are good for anything is because people shot the ones that were junk.


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## Alice In TX/MO

Pyrenees/Heeler mix had genetic cards stacked against him. His brain doesn’t know whether to guard or herd. I have heard of MANY disasters when two different types of working dogs are mixed.


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## JohnHoward

Alice In TX/MO said:


> Pyrenees/Heeler mix had genetic cards stacked against him. His brain doesn’t know whether to guard or herd. I have heard of MANY disasters when two different types of working dogs are mixed.


I agree 100%


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## po boy

Alice In TX/MO said:


> Pyrenees/*Heeler* mix had genetic cards stacked against him. His brain doesn’t know whether to guard or herd. I have heard of MANY disasters when two different types of working dogs are mixed.


Kind of off topic, but I saw an ad by someone wanting to rehome a heeler because it kept trying to heard the robo vac.


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## Lisa in WA

po boy said:


> Kind of off topic, but I saw an ad by someone wanting to rehome a heeler because it kept trying to heard the robo vac.


Good grief, don’t they need a smack in the head?
My BC tried herding it too but we told him not to and he stopped.


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## hiddensprings

You might be able to find a recuse group to take the dog, but I'm like the others....if you can't rehome, you don't have any other options other then shooting it.


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