# What would it take to run 2000 watts?



## Pearl B (Sep 27, 2008)

Im not that familiar with whats currently available in solar setups,ie, the best panels, inverters etc.

What would it take to run an appliance, my little space heater, its top wattage is 1500. Dc I think is 60HZ. So I figure 2000watt to be on the ample side.

Ideally I would like a set-up dedicated to that appliance only. Im in AZ and would say its full sun most of the time. Can anyone point me in the right direction of panels, batteries, inverters, overall setup?

TIA


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## nadja (May 22, 2011)

TIA, I am also in N.E. Az. You do NOT want to run any kind of heating appliances on solar. You would be throwing away your money. Is the space heater for your bedroom or for the rest of the house ? I use a Kozy brand vented thermostat controled heater in the bedroom and have two ventless propane heaters for my office and living room. Propane, which is really nice heat. The brand I find the best for that is a "Pro Com" which also works on a thermostat. Fantastic wall heater. 
Can also be used on included feet to be pointable to wherever you wish. Just have it hooked up with a 4 -5 ft. rubber hose. Have the gas man do that. The pro com heater was about $200.00 plus shipping and cost me another 60.00 for the fittings, hose and the gas man to connect it all up. Much better then the 35,000.00 or so for the correct amount of solar to run an elec. space heater for a few hours. P.s I live totaly off the grid and have for a little over 16 years. I know what I am talking about. Nadja


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## whodunit (Mar 29, 2004)

nadja said:


> TIA, I am also in N.E. Az. You do NOT want to run any kind of heating appliances on solar. You would be throwing away your money.


Mind explaining the above?


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## nadja (May 22, 2011)

whodunit said:


> Mind explaining the above?


Simple, when you turn on a small electric heater, it will zap your solar system, including your batteries. If you do that several times , then you can throw away a lot of very very expensive batteries. They are not meant to be taken down below the 75 - 80 % areas. If you do take them below that which a heater would do, especially if ran an hour or so, then their life span is reduced by leaps and bounds. For solar , the best thing you can do, is run stove, water heater's , reg heaters etc on gas, be it natrual or propane/butane. But to install a very large solar system just for that is not a viable solution, unless you just want to throw away large amounts of money


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## artificer (Feb 26, 2007)

An expansion of why heating with solar electric doesn't make sense:

If you want to run that 1,600 watt heater 24hrs/day, you'll need over $10,000 worth of batteries. Double that for panels. If you get someone else to install it, you're up to triple the battery price. It makes a propane tank/heater look cheap in comparison, even if you have to haul the propane in on horseback.

Solar powered heating never makes sense, unless its very minor, like a run of heat tape.

A better idea is to go to Solargary's wonder web site http://www.builditsolar.com/ Look at the solar water heaters. You could get a solar panel/battery setup to power the water pump since it doesn't use much power. An insulated water tank to store the heat over night, and a fan coil to put the heat where you want it. Depending on your scrounging ability, you can put a system together for $1000 or so.

Michael


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## Jim-mi (May 15, 2002)

I use a 600/900 watt heater all the time as a dump load for my system.

It is a voltage controled circuit.

It shuts off the heater when the voltage gets down to 25.7

Has worked fine for several years now . . . . . . . . . .. .


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## TnAndy (Sep 15, 2005)

Yes Jim, but now tell the rest of the story. 

It's on a wind turbine, and a dump load on a wind turbine is to rid the system of excess power generated in high wind......not a solar generation system.


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## TnAndy (Sep 15, 2005)

Pearl B. said:


> What would it take to run an appliance, my little space heater, its top wattage is 1500. Dc I think is 60HZ. So I figure 2000watt to be on the ample side.
> 
> *Ideally I would like a set-up dedicated to that appliance only.*


You don't say how much per day you run the heater, but I'll assume for the sake of this exercise it's on 24hrs per day...all the time. If you only run it half the time, cut all the below in half.....including what you would pay the electric company.

To set it up for THAT appliance ONLY would require a battery based system to take care of non sun time ( nights, clouds, etc ).

If you want 2,000w 24hr/day you'd need:

A battery bank capable of delivering 2,000 x 24 or 48,000 watt hours a day. To allow for 3 days of a period of no sun, you'd triple that.....say 150,000w/hrs.

At 120v AC ( not allowing for any inverter loss, which there would be ), 150,000/120 = 1,250amp/hrs.

You don't want to regularly discharge batteries more than 50%, so double that to 2,500 amp/hrs. The more often, and deeper, you discharge batteries, the quicker they wear out. 50% is the accepted standard, to get decent life out of a set of a batteries.....say 4-7 years.

Assuming you used the cheapest flooded cell lead acid battery ( and remember to water them regularly so they last ), like golf cart batteries, you'll spend something like 2-3 dollars per amp hour.

Figure $7,500.

Now you'll need enough panels to supply what you use + keep the batteries charged. Go back to that 2,000w x 24 hours. That's 2kw x 24hrs or 48kw/hrs per day.....48,000watt/hours/day.

Figure you get GREAT SUN, and get it 8hrs per day ( you probably don't, but be optimistic )....48,000 / 8 = 6,000 watts of panels, bare minimum.....just to supply what you want to use, not putting ANY back in the batteries for cloudy days.

Figure double that by the time you add enough for that, plus system losses, plus panels simply don't put out their rated amount....more like 80%, and then only during about 4 peak hours per day....morning and evening hours are a LOT less.

16,000 watts of panels would cost $1.50/w or about $24,000.

Then you would have to add inverters, charge controllers, wiring, racks to mount the panels, and so on and so on.....and labor if you don't plan to do it yourself.

JUST the equipment is going to run something like $50,000. Labor, probably another 10-15,000 at least.

SO, you'd have that in a system to guarantee you 48kw/hr/day.

Look up your electric rate.....it's probably 15-20 cents per kw/hr.

So, you can spend 60-70,000 bucks on solar, or you can plug into the wall and pay the electric company 48 x .20 or $9.60 per day.

See what a bargain grid power is ?

You pick.


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## Pearl B (Sep 27, 2008)

Thank you everyone. I didnt think it would be that much of a problem to run a little heater.
I just use to heat my bedroom. Its been surprising me. It gets the room warmed up pretty quick. Then I just turn it on and off as needed.


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## nadja (May 22, 2011)

Pearl B. I don't think any of us are trying to be nasty, just a realistic idea of what it would take. Andy does all the number cruntching and is good at it, so you can take it to the bank.


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## Jim-mi (May 15, 2002)

My heater is on a good part of the day with- ONLY- the PV generating power . . . . . .

All the better when there is also wind . . . . . . . . .

Makes more sense to me to have that kilowatt of energy turned into warmth for me rather than a miserable .10 cents credit at the utility company...................


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## nadja (May 22, 2011)

Jim-mi How much solar do you have ? Also, keep in mind that your grid tied. Pearl is not asking about grid tie. Only solar for her heater etc.


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## Pearl B (Sep 27, 2008)

nadja said:


> Pearl B. I don't think any of us are trying to be nasty, just a realistic idea of what it would take. Andy does all the number cruntching and is good at it, so you can take it to the bank.


I didnt think you guys were being nasty. I hope my comment didnt come off that way, as I didnt intend for it to. I just didnt think it would be that problematic to set something up for the space heater. 

Youre right, Im just interested in a stand alone solar for the heater. I have electric, Im not interested in paying back to the utility company or anything along those lines.

ETA, I just wanted to know what kind of package,ie, converters,batterys, solar panels are needed for 2000watts


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## Jim-mi (May 15, 2002)

1960 watts of PV...............


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## Pearl B (Sep 27, 2008)

I just googled PV and came across the same sight that artificer posted.
I bookmarked it and will start reading it.

I read the thread Moonriver started and realized its quite an undertaking to get 2000watts. Thats okay. Its just going to take some time & research. I doubt I will try to run the heater on solar, ever. 

Ive been toying with the idea of dedicating solar to specific appliances. Like a setup just for the computer, one just for the tv, stuff like that.

Thank you for posting you guys. It gave me a starting point and thats what I wanted as well.


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## texican (Oct 4, 2003)

With a bottomless bank account, or a friend of the Administration in Washington, there are no problems.

For us mortals, resistive heat (electric heat) is way too expensive.

When I was researching solar power (before the internet) in '87, it's one of the first things I learned... high power consumers weren't practical for regular usage, and electric stoves, heaters, hot water heaters were simply "OUT". Unless one had a wind/hydro setup where the excess load had to be dumped into a load, producing heat was not economical.


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## doodlemom (Apr 4, 2006)

http://eartheasy.com/green-home/green-kitchen/global-sun-oven-dehydration-kit
The above is hopefully going to replace my oven for berry pies/breads in the summer and warmer months for canning and dehydrating too as not to go against the ac. In winter months cooking with a full oven on electric doesn't bother meals it heats the house and smells real good, but I'm gonna try this baby out in the snow. A warm comfy bathrobe, some thermal jammies, and an optional fireplace is as off grid as I'm going with the heat. I use oil which requires electric usually until I find the right cost/safety/benefit ratio.


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## tylerharmon92 (Nov 23, 2011)

Sunlight -> electricity -> heat
is extremely inefficient. Photovoltaic (PV, or electric) solar panels are only 20-40% efficient. Then, resistive heating - your space heater - is the least efficient way to make heat out of that electricity.

But solar energy is hot naturally. What you need is a *solar thermal panel* system. This skips the intermediate (and inefficient) steps and brings the HEAT of the sun straight into your house. :happy:

There are a lot of ways to do this. You can do a solar air heater that simply circulates air from your house through a large, black panel to warm it directly. Or a solar hot water heater + heat exchanger or radiator. A common solution is to run radiant floor heating with water heated in a solar water heater panel.

These solar thermal (as opposed to PV) solutions are cheaper, more efficient, simpler, and more reliable. What do ya think?


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## greg273 (Aug 5, 2003)

You are in Arizona, your winters are probably cold, but sunny... Use that solar thermal heat. THere are plans for small solar thermal window units you can make, on the cheap. A friend of mine here in not-so-sunny Illinois just put one together for under $100, and it puts out a good amount of heat.


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## Pearl B (Sep 27, 2008)

The solar thermal panel heat ideas sound good & reasonably priced, I will look into that.
Thank you


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