# can not control windows 10



## manfred

When i take my computer off of sleep every morning it starts sending and receiving data and I can not search any websites until it is done with whatever it is doing.
The maddening thing is I can not determine where this data is going and coming from. I am allowed 5200 mb per month and often run out of data.
Please help me.


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## Nevada

How fast is your Internet connection? If you don't know, test here.

https://www.speakeasy.net/speedtest/


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## no really

I'm having a similar problem with a new laptop. Windows 8.1, the maintenance program starts up resulting in slow speeds and at times freezing up. Also have data caps and don't want this program running at all. But according to Microsoft it can't be turned off permanently. 

Seriously considering getting a Mac.


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## manfred

I don't see why it would matter how fast my connection is.
My problem is the machine using data and I don't know where it's going.


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## Nevada

Unfortunately Windows 10 doesn't allow security updates to be deferred. I'm not convinced that updates is the problem, but it's not something that can be tried.


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## no really

Nevada said:


> Unfortunately Windows 10 doesn't allow security updates to be deferred. I'm not convinced that updates is the problem, but it's not something that can be tried.


Didn't know that, so windows 10 is a no go for a home computer.


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## Nevada

no really said:


> Didn't know that, so windows 10 is a no go for a home computer.


If your Internet speed is severely limited then yes. That's not an issue for me.


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## no really

Speed and data are limited severely. Such is leaving remote, trade off is worth it though.
Now to go check out Macs


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## HermitJohn

win10 is built as spyware. You use it, you agree in terms of service they can grab your data and phone home with it. And use the connection you pay for to do this! Thats how they were giving win10 away for free, they sell your info that they collect. The only sure way I have seen is to use a hardware based firewall so you can block the phone home sites. They cant change a hardware based firewall since its independent of the computer. They most likely can change settings for any software based firewall. Here is what you agree to when you use win10:


> We will access, disclose and preserve personal data, including your content (such as the content of your emails, other private communications or files in private folders), when we have a good faith belief that doing so is necessary to....


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## Nevada

no really said:


> Speed and data are limited severely. Such is leaving remote, trade off is worth it though.
> Now to go check out Macs


You won't like the price of Macs. You're probably better off with some flavor of Linux desktop as a Windows alternative.

If I was disgusted enough with Windows 10 to seek an alternative I would probably revert to Windows 7. It still has almost 4 years of update support left. Then in 2020, when security update support ends, you can reevaluate what's available.


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## Murby

HermitJohn said:


> win10 is built as spyware. You use it, you agree in terms of service they can grab your data and phone home with it. And use the connection you pay for to do this! Thats how they were giving win10 away for free, they sell your info that they collect. The only sure way I have seen is to use a hardware based firewall so you can block the phone home sites. They cant change a hardware based firewall since its independent of the computer. They most likely can change settings for any software based firewall. Here is what you agree to when you use win10:


Yup. That ^^^^^

Window's 10 is basically legalized spyware. Everything you do on your computer is sent back to microsoft so they can use your information to make more money. You can turn these spyware setting off but you have to know what you're doing and it takes some work.

You can turn off automatic updates easy enough however. Here you go:
http://www.howtogeek.com/224471/how-to-prevent-windows-10-from-automatically-downloading-updates/

Personally, I would suggest you format your drive and install a copy of Windows 7 or windows 8 pro editions. Pretty sure they're available on any torrent file site. 

Microsoft is getting sneaky with its software and is really screwing up.. it took me three full days of playing with it to make it work the way I wanted. I use Win8.1 Pro x64.. I do like it very much but the work to set it up was off the charts. 

My computer doesn't send or receive any data unless I allow it.. Even when it updates, I can choose which updates I want to install and which ones I don't. 

Microsoft was so intent on pushing windows 10 on everyone that they tried to install it through updates on all windows 8 machines. If you didn't want it, you had to go in and tweak some well hidden settings in order to prevent it. 

My next computer may be a non-Microsoft machine if they continue this course of business.


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## no really

Nevada said:


> You won't like the price of Macs. You're probably better off with some flavor of Linux desktop as a Windows alternative.
> 
> If I was disgusted enough with Windows 10 I would probably revert to Windows 7. It still has almost 4 years of update support left. Then in 2020, when security update support ends, you can reevaluate what's available.


I checked the prices of Macs before I got this laptop, yeah they are really high. I am giving some thought to 7 professional.


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## HermitJohn

People worried about privacy might also want to consider NOSCRIPT. Its not just MS that is collecting data. Though building such spyware into an operating system is an all time scammy thing to do. 

NOSCRIPT is telling me this website alone is wanting to run 87 background scripts using MY computer resources ON MY DIME. NOSCRIPT is allowing 6 that are necessary to navigation. Nobody is going to tell me the rest trying to run are just for grins and giggles.....

I am using expensive mobile broadband metered data. I dont need to subsidize any web site through such nefarious means. Thats why I went to such lengths. If they only want paying customers, be man enough to put up a paywall and sell your valuable content. Let the market decide just how valuable your content is. Dont secretly track me, dont secretly collect and sell my data. Dont try to sponge off my expensive resources. That goes for MS with their operating systems, third party software providers, and all websites on web doing this. IT IS NOT OK!


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## Murby

HermitJohn said:


> NOSCRIPT is telling me this website alone is wanting to run 87 background scripts using MY computer resources ON MY DIME. NOSCRIPT is allowing 6 that are necessary to navigation. Nobody is going to tell me the rest trying to run are just for grins and giggles.....


Huh? 6 of them? Only 2 are needed and perhaps it might just be one.
ajax.googleapis.com
homesteadingtoday.com

My NoScript is set to not allow anything by default.. But I allow those two listed above for this website. That's all that needed.

My AdBlockPlus also works to stop anything else from getting in. Small website forums like this one are usually run by folks who don't have time to monitor all advertisements for sneaky software attacks so I don't allow any of them.
No advertisements, no scripts allowed except the two above.

Where did you get 6 from? I bet the other 4 are from advertisements..


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## HermitJohn

No ads show. But if you block everything then you cant form paragraphs you post, all runs together. No script doesnt name each and every script individually. Only shows the external websites called to participate. You can only block websites, not individual scripts. And number scripts vary. Look at bottom of screen. Right now there are 67 scripts wanting to run. But four websites involved. I have all but homesteadingtoday.com and ajax blocked.

Ok, wierd. I opened Pale Moon also using NoScript. It shows 14 external websites blocked and 72 background scripts with only 2 of them running. I am letting ajax and homesteadingtoday.com remain unblocked.

Wonder if NoScript is updating properly on Firefox? Also I locked Firefox down to version 30 so latest NoScript might not run properly. Firefox updates got to be constant and annoying. I let Pale Moon update at will cause it doesnt abuse the privilege. I am very used to Firefox, but maybe should switch to using Pale Moon most of time.


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## HermitJohn

Ok, now PaleMoon is showing 6 blocked and homesteadingtoday.com and ajax unblockd. I am not sure why the change. What happened to the other eight shown before? They were all garbage ad and data collection sites.

Oh well I am at least going to see about NoScript working properly on Firefox 30.


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## HermitJohn

Ah found the problem on Firefox. I forgot, long ago I was experimenting with Ghostery. It does some of same stuff as NoScript, but does it automatically. Well its still running. Thus it blocked some of those external garbage sites before NoScript saw them.


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## Darren

HermitJohn said:


> win10 is built as spyware. You use it, you agree in terms of service they can grab your data and phone home with it. And use the connection you pay for to do this! Thats how they were giving win10 away for free, they sell your info that they collect. The only sure way I have seen is to use a hardware based firewall so you can block the phone home sites. They cant change a hardware based firewall since its independent of the computer. They most likely can change settings for any software based firewall. Here is what you agree to when you use win10:


Data mining. Since you agreed to Win10 terms the the eventual outcomes of the use of that data can be far reaching. In a sense it can be the same as someone going through your garbage. The legal implications are not good.

Software can help you or hurt you. Sometimes the implications only show up later. Farmers are facing that now.

http://www.miamiherald.com/news/business/technology/article88653497.html


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## HermitJohn

I guess if I were wanting to use win10 under such weird legal restrictions where I cant modify it, my legal theory would be, yea I agreed you could data mine (not like I had any choice), I just didnt agree you could use the connection I paid for, to phone it home. Therefore I have perfect right to use a router firewall outside of your operating system to block you.


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## HermitJohn

This has me interested for some reason, been reading lot about win10 spyware. Microshaft has been really thorough in nailing it down to stop people blocking it. There arent any ways to completely block it with settings in the system. Though there are several third party programs to make it easy to opt out on all settings available and even remove bits of spyware oriented components. At best probably just slow it down some. 

Without a win10 system to play with, cant say if a third party software firewall like Comodo would block it or if you would need to use a router firewall or run connection through a networked linux computer using its firewall. They make windows firewall hard to use to control outgoing stuff, though you can and there are third party frontends to make it easier. I would however bet they have already figured an end run around their own firewall though I doubt few would go to hassle of using it to block outgoing transmissions. Thats an inconvenience few will bother with, same reason few properly use NO SCRIPT. It can be very inconvenient sometimes figuring what to allow for function without giving too much away.

Oh did find a sort of way to slow win10 updates. If and only if you use a wifi connection, you can go to connection setting and specify that its a metered access. Supposedly then they will only do extremely critical updates to avoid running up a bill for you. Want actual absolute control and you would need to use a firewall.


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## manfred

My computer did windows updates yesterday... took about 5 hours and used 2.5 g of data. About half my monthly allowance.
I sure miss windows 7.


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## Nevada

manfred said:


> My computer did windows updates yesterday... took about 5 hours and used 2.5 g of data. About half my monthly allowance.
> I sure miss windows 7.


Sounds like you got the November update.


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## manfred

Something I did made it worse. I saw my computer downloading and disconnected from the web several times.m This caused my machine to start over with the updates. 
It took me some time to discover where my data was going and made me angry.


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## HermitJohn

This open source piece software supposed to work on win7, win8 and win10. Besides giving various options to disable windows spying, it also is supposed to give you control over updates. Way it sounds lets you toggle on/off whether you want them. So you can turn off when inconvenient, turn on when convenient. http://dws.wzor.net/ 

There is another trick in win10, if you are using wifi router, you can set the connection as metered and supposedly windows wont do any but an extremely urgent update. No idea what their idea of urgent is, could be adding more spyware.


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## Declan

They only had Windows 10 systems when I had to replace a computer recently. First thing I did was remove every app.add-on software that came on it except FF that I could. I don't have a data limit, but I just don't want all that stuff on there slowing down start-ups, spying, and constantly causing slow speeds. I then installed just the programs, add-ons I run. 

In my experience however, the newer the unit is, the more updating you have to do. Eventually it seems to settle down.


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## HermitJohn

I would spend whatever time it takes to regain control if using win10. This plethora of built in spyware and dependence on "the cloud" is big shock to me as I truly havent used any windows beyond XP. And it was bad enough. Win10 is big push to force people into making easy monthly payments forever, even the silly solitare games have become adware, you get ads unless you pay a low monthly fee.... Solitaire? Is M$ on edge of bankruptcy or something? Or just really really greedy? There are of course workarounds to install solitare off earlier windows. Or you could even run DOSbox and run the old DOS games, which tended to be better anyway. 

I have win10 dvd (one somebody burned from file M$ is giving away for free) on its way as I am not paying for the data to download it on metered mobile broadband. Supposedly my computer is theoretically able to run it, some guy posted he has duplicate of my old computer and got it installed. I am mostly curious to see its nonsense up close. In reality once my curiosity is satisfied, win10 will be relegated to an external hard drive dedicated to running tax software once a year. It wont be allowed online. I doubt I will be so impressed I would want to use it everyday. Puppy has been perfect fit for me for long time and expect it to remain so. It runs speedily on older cheaper computers.


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## terri9630

Reading all of this makes me glad my computer wouldn't download Windows 10.


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## HermitJohn

terri9630 said:


> Reading all of this makes me glad my computer wouldn't download Windows 10.


Never say never. If you live long enough, probably end up having to do lot things you never thought you would. Better to figure out how to deal with it head on. I think most of win10 garbage and spyware can be either deleted or blocked. Though unfortunately you are never completely sure when the whole operating system is designed around it and to further it.

I figure first try that software I gave link to that supposed to remove or block lot of the garbage. Have to block updates cause they WILL try to add more spyware and build in more back doors if enough people start blocking them. 

Then install a third party Comodo firewall set to paranoid and see if anything is still getting through to phone home. Course I suspect if put to it, M$ can burrow through any software firewall installed on win10. You would have to block it with either router firewall or make the connection go through a linux computer set up with firewall. Why in heavens name all this should be necessary is beyond me. I dont like sneaky and underhanded.


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## Bellyman

I wonder, will the current lash-back inspire new levels of functionality in the Linux world? In the last few years, it's come a long way already. And there seem to be an awful lot of torqued off MS users.

It's probably hard to quantify in any meaningful way but still something I wondered about.


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## arabian knight

I don't know about that, but what I have read is this stuff from MS has made a few more switch over to Macs. LOL


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## Nevada

Bellyman said:


> I wonder, will the current lash-back inspire new levels of functionality in the Linux world?


I kind of doubt it. The major Linux distributions (Red Hat, Debian, Ubuntu, etc.) are full-blown server platforms. They have quirky things important to server function but would be irritating obstacles to desktop users. Keep in mind that Linux was developed by nerds for nerds, so user-friendliness will never be a priority.

That said, there is a lot of promise for alternative operating systems using the Linux kernel. Developers are drawn to the Linux kernel because it's open source (i.e., free), unlike the Windows kernel. The kernel is the component of the operating system that interfaces with computer hardware. Users don't work directly with the kernel, but the kernel is what sends things to the display, writes & retrieves data to the hard drive, sends & receives to the network adapter or USB ports, and the like. One important feature of a kernel is that it has to be supported, since it has to evolve as new hardware evolves. The Linux kernel is heavily supported, and free. Naturally, developers look to the Linux kernel for alternative operating systems.

Several products have evolved from the Linux kernel, most notably Android and Chrome OS. They start with the Linux kernel and build a user interface around it. While Android is the defacto OS for smart phones, it's also commonly used today in tablets. It could evolve to become a replacement for Windows desktop & laptop computers. Google developers would like to say the same about Chrome OS. But they would need to support advanced office applications to get the attention of the business community.

So I don't see any of the major Linux distros overtaking Windows, while operating systems using the Linux kernel have a very good chance of success.


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## HermitJohn

Bellyman said:


> I wonder, will the current lash-back inspire new levels of functionality in the Linux world? In the last few years, it's come a long way already. And there seem to be an awful lot of torqued off MS users.
> 
> It's probably hard to quantify in any meaningful way but still something I wondered about.


Linux is quite functional. If you are somehow waiting for it to immediately run any windows software with no effort involved, you will be waiting a long time. You either learn to use and appreciate the native linux software or you spend lot time tinkering with WINE or Crossover. Or you stick with windows. Thats long and short of it. Its not a commercial product, and it ISNT a WINDOWS clone. 

Mac, chrome, and android arent going to run windows software either. The best you can say is their software is more polished and commercial, since they are commercial companies looking for profit. Linux software usually isnt commercial and isnt all polished and super pretty. And it ISNT WINDOWS.

I have been looking at Android for x86 and I think it needs lot work to make it work smoothly as workstation desktop. Most Android apps are made for small touch screens. Many of apps designed for ARM version of Android dont function well or at all on x86 Android. Google seems not to want Android to be developed towards desktop operating system, they want Chrome.

Now what I been reading, Apple and Google arent exactly all warm and fuzzy either. They collect data too, maybe not as heavy handed as M$ via operating system, but they do collect lot data. We are moving into some kind nightmare world where nobody has much privacy, and what little you do maintain has to be fought for continuously. And everybody wants everything to be on the most profitable easy payment plan, where you always rent and never actually own outright. Most money made in world anymore is through interest collected on financing, not actually selling anything outright.

Things are going to get lot worse before they get better.


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## arabian knight

HermitJohn said:


> *Mac,* chrome, and android arent going to run windows software either.


 You can install Windows directly on a Mac these days, after Apple went with INTEL for their Chips instead of Motorola ones they had in the past. So you can boot up either in Windows on a Mac or boot up just in Apple. There was an ad running a few years ago saying want Windows to work better? Use Windows running on a MAC. LOL
Why doesn't someone other than Apple, use Unix as a Kernal?


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## Steve_S

I would strongly suggest anyone with Windows 10 issues & questions, should check out this forum Windows TEN Forums or for Windows 8 Windows EIGHT Forums. These are run by the same group and have invaluable information, tips, tricks, tweaks and fixes for the annoyance that get under everyone's skin.

BE CAUTIOUS with "God Mode" tools if you are not a seasoned computer person, one wrong click can make for a terrible day, in a hurry.

Side Note: Windows 10 personal data collection ruled 'excessive' by France dated July-20-2016. This is lapping on similar findings & determinations elsewhere.


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## Nevada

arabian knight said:


> You can install Windows directly on a Mac these days


OK, but why would anyone do such a thing?


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## HermitJohn

Ok, today I installed win10 to a usb hard drive plugged into my desktop. Took about an hour, used a free demo copy of wintousb running on my XP install and that win10 iso dvd in the dvdrom, which is lot easier than doing it manually as the windows installer really doesnt want to install to an external hard drive.

I have bios set to try to boot from usb first. So unless I have reason to boot win10, just leave the hard drive unplugged. 

As to my take on win10 so far, its frankly creepy, desktop being like some garish midway carnival, pushing all these online apps and BIG brother knows best kind attitude to preventing me tweaking settings like I want them. Next time I boot it I run program called Destroy Windows Spying. Then Comodo firewall and maybe Pale Moon browser. Try to make it somewhat usable. Want to play with it some before I put it up until next tax season. But dont want it eating big chunk of my metered broadband with its spying.


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## HermitJohn

Ok, found a script to rip Cortana's heart out and did so. Seemed to work fine. Removed or blocked the cloud apps, and blocked the phone home stuff. Also used third party app to block updates since M$ doesnt natively allow such in any but Enterpise edition of win10. Big Brother knows best... Could only find wifi driver for my adapter by downloading a 30mb monster file with every windows driver ever made for that adapter. Pretty sure I only need an inf file a few kb big but just way things are done anymore. But it worked. Then Pale Moon which seems to have changed, it wouldnt install Firefox extensions. When I tried got error that the extensions didnt support that old of a version of Firefox??? And it was slow as molasses without ad blocker and no script.

So downloaded latest 64bit Firefox for windows. It too was slow until I got the extensions installed, then Firefox fast as it is on Puppy. There is now by way an Ad Block Ultimate so you dont have undo the whitelisted stuff as it has no white list. No-script (full version) is like it always has been.

Found out the universal HP printer driver for win10 supports my ancient HP 4000. BUT you need a parallel port to usb cable to make it work. Parallel ports are passe and not supported by the driver. Cable has to be two way and have a chipset that win10 likes. Dont think I will bother with that. Set it to print to pdf file and have Puppy grab the pdf files and print them to actual paper if need be. Rare I would print with win10 anyway. I do very little printing to paper anymore.

Win10 has to be the slowest booting operating system ever. I guess it is trying to preload every app it has or something. Anyway first two minutes pure black screen with no indication its booting. Then the blue four pane window on the black screen. Then the twirling marbles underneath the window. Finally the seashore cave pic with time in big numbers. Click on that and enter password. Then the desktop. I'd hate to go through that every day or multiple times a day. No watermark yet for being unactivated. Course I may have blocked that so it never reaches M$ to try and activate. I was able to change the background picture. In settings somewhere it had in small letters at bottom to please activate. Thats it.


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## Nevada

HermitJohn said:


> Win10 has to be the slowest booting operating system ever. I guess it is trying to preload every app it has or something. Anyway first two minutes pure black screen with no indication its booting.


That's not an issue if you replace your hard drive with an SSD. I boot Windows 10 in about 20 seconds.


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## HermitJohn

I am also betting you have a faster computer than me. Like I said, I was amazed win10 was able to install on mine. I was reading and even some single core processors have the nx bit that lets it install. Somebody said they got it installed on one of the late M-processors used in cheap laptops. That truly is amazing. They didnt even do full XP all that well. And if you are really desperate there is a work around that makes win8.1 install without the NX bit on processor, tells the installer to ignore that requirement. So some were speculating it could be done with win10 also. I wouldnt have clue how to do it without lot more reading. So OP might actually be able to install the 32bit version of win10, but I suspect it would take somebody with more than average expertise and persistance to accomplish it. In other words you would spend considerable time to save $50.


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## Nevada

HermitJohn said:


> I am also betting you have a faster computer than me.


Probably not. I use a 6 or 7 year old HP laptop (HP model 6730b) for a workstation. Specs are like this:

*CPU:* Intel Core 2 Duo, 2.8 GHz (T9600)
*Memory:* 4GB
*Mass Storage:* 250GB Intel SSD (solid state drive)
*OS:* Windows 10, 64-bit, Version 1511 (OS build 10586.494)

A lot of the work in booting the system is loading the Windows graphical interface, which is huge (~1GB). It's probably the hard drive holding you back. You'll be surprised at the performance boost an SSD gives you. I have nothing against newer & faster processors but I get acceptable performance out of my Core 2 Duo, at least since I switched from hard drive to SSD. Trust me, if I thought I needed an i3, i5 or i7 processor, I'd have one.


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## arabian knight

Nevada said:


> Probably not. I use a 6 or 7 year old HP laptop (HP model 6730b) for a workstation. Specs are like this:
> 
> *CPU:* Intel Core 2 Duo, 2.8 GHz (T9600)
> *Memory:* 4GB


 That is pretty much what I have in this 7 year old Mac.

2.66 GHz Core 2 Duo the drive is 320 Gigs And it came with 2 gig of ram I jumped to the max, to 8 gig, only because I could, and it was so very easy and inexpensive to do at 47 bucks~!.
But I still have the HHD inside.


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## HermitJohn

Ok, I believe you on the SSD, in my reading ran across several posts people telling others with pc having limited ram capacity, to try a SSD, that it would probably boost speed more than more ram or slightly faster processor. I have been watching used computer on ebay, and the i7s and even i5s tend to bring the money, even for a stripped computer, if they claim it will at least boot to bios. Still hard to believe anything short of changes to win10, stripping out lot bloat, would make it boot in 20 seconds. Even XP on pc takes upwards of a minute. Now I have a stripped to bone unofficial XP version called tinyxp on an ancient laptop, and that thing is as fast as any version of Puppy. Super stable too.


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## HermitJohn

ok, quick google, and my processor isnt actually a dual core, its a hyper threaded single core made to act like a dual core. Guess thats why for longest time I thought it was single core, when I bought the computer thought it was just a fast single core cause thats what I had been dealing with and it was running 32bit XP. Still even if not a real dual core, it lets me use 64bit operating system. But may help explain the long boot on 64bit win10.


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## Nevada

HermitJohn said:


> Ok, I believe you on the SSD, in my reading ran across several posts people telling others with pc having limited ram capacity, to try a SSD, that it would probably boost speed more than more ram or slightly faster processor.


You're going to need 4GB of memory to run any contemporary version of Windows well. 2GB just isn't going to be enough.


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## HermitJohn

Again and again, I just wanted to see win10 up close, take it for a spin, then keep it around to run tax software. About soon eat ground up glass than have to use it day to day. 2gb is plenty for Puppy Linux and it does everything I want. Putting more memory into this old computer would be rather pointless. It can take upto 4gb, but by time I did that, just as well get a used i5 with 4 to 8gb ram for $50 to $60. I've looked at used computers, lot overpriced junk at the bottom that still costs $30 to $40 shipped and needs lot repair/extras. But between $50 and $100, you can get something complete and relatively modern. $100 will buy something quite nice if you are careful shopper.


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## HermitJohn

Nevada said:


> You're going to need 4GB of memory to run any contemporary version of Windows well. 2GB just isn't going to be enough.


More experimenting. I timed bootup. Ok, 36seconds for the complete black screen (it just seems longer), 1 minute with just the black screen and little blue window (seems forever), then 15 seconds with the marbles spinning under the window. Then the seashore cave pic, click on that and log in. And yes sure this is combination of my old oddball single core hyperthreaded processor trying to run a graphic intensive 64bit system. Also my 2gb ram. 

I now have full version of latest Firefox and also latest Opera browser. Firefox takes 11seconds to load. Not a big deal at all. Opera is nearly instantaneous. However Opera only offeres No-script-lite which I dont like nearly as well as full version on Firefox. But even so its slightly faster than Firefox, about like PaleMoon.

Just saying if you get rid of the met-apps and ditch cortana, and block updates/telemetry, 64bit win10pro isnt horrible with 2gb memory. Is it great, no not great, but then I doubt I would care all that much for it on very fast computer. It wasnt designed for my needs, its trying to sell cloud based software/storage for a per month fee. Least not without lot more modification and slimming down with nlite. But it is usable for more basic stuff. Sure you arent going to game with it or run mega bloatware office software very well. But for a home computer, its livable if its what one had. And no you dont ever have to activate it for it to be usable forever or until M$ does an update that shuts unactivated computers down. Another good reason to block updates.

By way M$ gives away a trimmed down version of 8.1 (with BING) for manufacturers of small cheap, low spec computers that compete with Chromeboxes. Chrome operating system is free, and windows license is a big expense in producing a computer. One that I read about that comes to mind, HP Stream, think its called. cheapest intel processor available, and 2gb ram and neither can be upgraded. Cheap looking thing, but some people really like it.


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## HermitJohn

I was reading more about Chromebooks this morning. They do same thing as win10, push you to using web storage and web apps. That seems direction things are headed as its more profitable. Basically a thin client workstation with a light operating system. REally impossible for those of us in boonies with either very slow connection or expensive metered data connection. But you apparently can force a Chromebook to share its minimal hard drive with full linux distribution (at least on the x86 Chromebooks) and of course you could add a usb hard drive.


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## Shin

Yes, having an SSD instead of an HD to run the OS is one of the most visible and immediate improvements on bootup speed you'll ever see with a computer.


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## HermitJohn

Shin said:


> Yes, having an SSD instead of an HD to run the OS is one of the most visible and immediate improvements on bootup speed you'll ever see with a computer.


Been experimenting with an SSD via usb. Installed win10 on it directly from win10 install on an old laptop using wintousb. Did that to avoid all the hassles cleaning up win10 from fresh install with the dvd. This just cloned the existing win10 install to usb and adjusted bootloader. Quite interesting, it first generated an image of BartPE from existing files, rebooted to that image and used it to clone the win10 install to the usb SSD.

On the old laptop it booted to desktop in same 25 seconds whether I used the usb SSD or the internal hard drive. Imagine it would be significantly faster if I installed the SSD internally to the SATA connection. But seriously trying to improve on 25 seconds seems pointless.

Then plugged it into my old desktop. First boot it has to change around drivers and such. Second boot it took just shy of 90 seconds to get to desktop. Modest improvement over booting from mechanical hard drive connected via usb. But does show that booting with a hyperthreaded single core processor with 2gb ram is lot slower than booting from a dual core processor with 2gb ram on the laptop.


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## paulty_logic

no really said:


> I checked the prices of Macs before I got this laptop, yeah they are really high. I am giving some thought to 7 professional.


Before you go that route, I would give Linux Mint 18 a try. You can get a USB drive with it preloaded sent out to you and can run it from that to see if it's something you'll like. I guess it really depends on what you are doing with your laptop.


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## no really

paulty_logic said:


> Before you go that route, I would give Linux Mint 18 a try. You can get a USB drive with it preloaded sent out to you and can run it from that to see if it's something you'll like. I guess it really depends on what you are doing with your laptop.


Thanks, I think I will give that a try.


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