# AMAZON



## SLADE (Feb 20, 2004)

Anyone else feeling uneasy about the fires?


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## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

SRSLADE said:


> Anyone else feeling uneasy about the fires?


I am. It's an incredible amount of land that is on fire.


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## SLADE (Feb 20, 2004)

Indeed.


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## JeepHammer (May 12, 2015)

A football field burning every SECOND, that small area where 10% of the world's oxygen comes from, and it's only getting bigger...

I stomped all over central & south America during the Reagan adminstration in the military, and the rain forest was drying up then due solely to human encroachment, less ran forest means less rain, which means less rain forest, which means less rain and the cycle continues.

The two things humans have been exceeding good at are killing each other and deforestation.


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## MoonRiver (Sep 2, 2007)

There appears to be conflicting reports as to whether this season is any worse than the last 15 seasons. It also appears that most of the fires are on previously cleared land.

Not to say this is good news, but as usual the media over-sensationalizes.


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

MoonRiver said:


> the media over-sensationalizes.


Exactly.
They create issues to drive the agendas.


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## SLADE (Feb 20, 2004)

Bearfootfarm said:


> Exactly.
> They create issues to drive the agendas.


What if your'e wrong?


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

SRSLADE said:


> What if your'e wrong?


Will my opinion of the media have any effect on the fires?


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

> SRSLADE said: ↑
> What if your'e wrong?


An example of media hype to push their agendas:
Fake Amazon fire photos being used.
https://www.snopes.com/news/2019/08/23/viral-amazon-fire-photos/


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## Miss Kay (Mar 31, 2012)

I'm worried about a lot of things right now but not a dang thang I can do about any of it so I continue in my own little bubble and hope I'm gone before it all comes to a head.


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## Redlands Okie (Nov 28, 2017)

What’s being done for short term gains against long term losses is amazing. On the other hand some family trying to feed itself is hard to reason with about long term results. The politicians and corporations involved are sure not worried about 20 or 50 years from now. Need that vote or money for the owners, execs and others involved as soon as possible.


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## SLADE (Feb 20, 2004)

Bearfootfarm said:


> An example of media hype to push their agendas:
> Fake Amazon fire photos being used.
> https://www.snopes.com/news/2019/08/23/viral-amazon-fire-photos/


I do see a large increase in the amount of fires.
using file photos does not mean the fires are not real.


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

SRSLADE said:


> I do see a large increase in the amount of fires.
> using file photos does not mean the fires are not real.


*Reports* of fires are increasing.
If they use fake photos in those reports, it's hard to say what is truly real.


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## SLADE (Feb 20, 2004)

I heard Brazil is selling more grain and meat to China as they buy less from US farmers.
This may be the reason for the fires. To clear land for production.
I also heard once those sales go to Brazil they will not come back to US farmers.


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## po boy (Jul 12, 2010)

SRSLADE said:


> I heard Brazil is selling more grain and meat to China as they buy less from US farmers.
> This may be the reason for the fires. To clear land for production.


Exports are down.
http://www.worldstopexports.com/brazils


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## geo in mi (Nov 14, 2008)

If I were a Brazilian farmer, I think I would invest in a heavy duty flail mower to save all that organic material and get it back into the soil. Save all the moisture I could get. Maybe that's too simple.

geo


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## miggyb (May 2, 2015)

SRSLADE said:


> I heard Brazil is selling more grain and meat to China as they buy less from US farmers.
> This may be the reason for the fires. To clear land for production.
> I also heard once those sales go to Brazil they will not come back to US farmers.


https://www.theatlantic.com/science/archive/2019/08/amazon-fires-are-political/596776/


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## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

miggyb said:


> https://www.theatlantic.com/science/archive/2019/08/amazon-fires-are-political/596776/


Thank you for the link. The information is frightening.

It's great to see you back, miggyb!


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

miggyb said:


> https://www.theatlantic.com/science/archive/2019/08/amazon-fires-are-political/596776/


That source says 851,200 acres have burned in Brazil since January.

Last year in CA alone, there were 1,893,913 acres destroyed.

In 2106 5 million acres were burning in Siberia.


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## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

Somehow other larger fires are supposed to make the deliberately set (as the article indicated) Amazon fires OK? The Amazon fires are still burning.


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

Irish Pixie said:


> Somehow other larger fires are supposed to make the deliberately set (as the article indicated) Amazon fires OK?


It puts them into a realistic perspective.
This is fire data on the US, where millions of acres have burned this year, and are still burning.:

https://www.nifc.gov/fireInfo/nfn.htm


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## Oxankle (Jun 20, 2003)

All this has been going on for centuries. Nowadays the news reports from all over the world keep the little red hens all excited.

England, most of Europe was once forested. Once under ice, too. The Gulf of Mexico once extended almost to Oklahoma. Aizona and New Mexico were once rain forests. Glaciers dropped all kinds of drumlins on Arkansas. Damn, what it that happens again? Woe is us.


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## miggyb (May 2, 2015)

Bearfootfarm said:


> It puts them into a realistic perspective.
> This is fire data on the US, where millions of acres have burned this year, and are still burning.:
> 
> https://www.nifc.gov/fireInfo/nfn.htm


My perspective is colored by the global need, for a healthy Amazon rain forest, that provides 20% of the planet's oxygen. This is a global scale disaster, in my opinion.


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## Alice In TX/MO (May 10, 2002)

So, what are you doing to help?


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## miggyb (May 2, 2015)

Alice In TX/MO said:


> So, what are you doing to help?


"what can a poor boy do...." if the question was directed at me; donate when I can, doing my best to preserve my own.tiny 6 acres, and bring attention(when/where) I can. I'll agree it ain't doin' jack, for the Amazon(right now). Perhaps, it will bear fruit for my children and grandchildren.


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## Alice In TX/MO (May 10, 2002)

It was a collective “you.”


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## georger (Sep 15, 2003)

SRSLADE said:


> Anyone else feeling uneasy about the fires?


No I’m not uneasy at all.

Forests catch on fire either naturally or otherwise, because they’re made of stuff that burns.

Eventually the fire dies out, as it always does and always will. Then it grows back as it always does and always will.

Nothing new here.


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## Mish (Oct 15, 2015)

I know in California (in most of the west, actually) there area species of plants and trees that require fires for proper seed germination. By suppressing forest fires out here for decade we've changed the way forests grow, allowing non-natives to overtake natives as the natives can't propagate themselves properly. In some cases this increases fires because non-natives burn faster/harder (looking at you, eucalyptus). I have to imagine the same is true in most fire-prone forests. Even rain forests.

Fire is part of the natural cycle, we start messing with it and there are going to be unforeseen consequences.


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

miggyb said:


> My perspective is colored by the global need, for a healthy Amazon rain forest, that provides 20% of the planet's oxygen. This is a global scale disaster, in my opinion.


Within a week or so after the fires burn out, new growth will begin.
It's all part of a natural cycle.


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## SLADE (Feb 20, 2004)

wdcutrsdaughter said:


> yes, but trying to look at it as if all is happening as it should be..... in the Bible it says 365x "do not be afraid"
> 
> Also "the planet is fine the people are (mod edit)" George Carlin
> 
> ...


It has more to do with greed rather than creed.


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## SLADE (Feb 20, 2004)

Bearfootfarm said:


> Within a week or so after the fires burn out, new growth will begin.
> It's all part of a natural cycle.


If it's put under agricultural production after the fires it will not grow back. A cow is not a tree.


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## dmm1976 (Oct 29, 2013)

Not worried. This happens at this time every year and if i can find it I'll posy this graft where the fires are actually less then they were in past years. I'm chalking this up to fake outrage .


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## dmm1976 (Oct 29, 2013)

SRSLADE said:


> If it's put under agricultural production after the fires it will not grow back. A cow is not a tree.


From what I understand alot of whats being intentionally burned are already farms. The farmers burn the old crops then replant. Soy mostly. Not cows. Though yes they are clearing for cattle ranches.. I dont know what the rate for that is. But the rate of clearing forest for farm land has slowed since the 90s.


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

dmm1976 said:


> the fires are actually less then they were in past years.


They've only been recording the data for 6 year too, so there isn't much of a database to compare it to.

It's a relatively small fire outbreak when you look at fires in other parts of the world.


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## alleyyooper (Apr 22, 2005)

*Holding my breath as much as I can.* 
I am cutting mostly dead wood for the furnace and letting the live trees grow.
Not removeing all the brush that is growing where I wish it wasn't too.

 Al


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## dmm1976 (Oct 29, 2013)

Bearfootfarm said:


> They've only been recording the data for 6 year too, so there isn't much of a database to compare it to.
> 
> It's a relatively small fire outbreak when you look at fires in other parts of the world.


Theyve only been using sattelite info for that long...theyve been recording data much longer.


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## miggyb (May 2, 2015)

Bearfootfarm said:


> Within a week or so after the fires burn out, new growth will begin.
> It's all part of a natural cycle.


_Blame is largely being placed at the foot of Brazilian president Jair Bolsonaro.

Deforestation has rapidly accelerated during the first eight months of his rule, thanks to his policies weakening the environment agency, undermining conservation NGOs and promoting the opening of the Amazon to mining, farming and logging.

He recently fired the head of Brazil’s space research centre Instituto Nacional de Pesquisas Espaciais (INPE) after data was published showing 72,843 fires in the Amazon this year alone, marking an 83 percent increase over the same period of 2018 and is the highest since records began in 2013 _*Nothing natural about arson. http://www.rain-tree.com/facts.htm (quoted source)*


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

miggyb said:


> Blame is largely being placed at the foot of Brazilian president Jair Bolsonaro.


Yeah, "blame" is often more political than factual.
The biology remains the same.



> The Amazon Rainforest covers over a billion acres





dmm1976 said:


> Theyve only been using sattelite info for that long...theyve been recording data much longer.


I was going by Miggy's source above. 
It may not be accurate. 
I haven't looked for confirmation.


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## Redlands Okie (Nov 28, 2017)

Bearfootfarm said:


> Within a week or so after the fires burn out, new growth will begin.
> It's all part of a natural cycle.


Not likely in the case of the Brazilian and Amazon fires. Their burning to prevent the regrowing of the rain forest and to allow use of the land for other purposes. By no means a new issue in the area. The last couple of decades the clearcutting and burning have slowly decreased . With the new politics in the area the cutting and burning have increased vastly and quickly.


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## Alice In TX/MO (May 10, 2002)

Decades? 

(Please tell me that I don't have to define Neolithic.)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slash-and-burn

"During the Neolithic Revolution, which included agricultural advancements, groups of hunter-gatherers domesticated various plants and animals, permitting them to settle down and practice agriculture, which provides more nutrition per hectare than hunting and gathering. This happened in the river valleys of Egypt and Mesopotamia. Due to this decrease in food from hunting, as human populations increased, agriculture became more important. Some groups could easily plant their crops in open fields along river valleys, but others had forests blocking their farming land.

In this context, humans used slash-and-burn agriculture to clear more land to make it suitable for plants and animals. Thus, since Neolithic times, slash-and-burn techniques have been widely used for converting forests into crop fields and pasture.[11] Fire was used before the Neolithic as well, and by hunter-gatherers up to present times."


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## po boy (Jul 12, 2010)

I remember.


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

SRSLADE said:


> I heard Brazil is selling more grain and meat to China as they buy less from US farmers.
> This may be the reason for the fires. To clear land for production.
> I also heard once those sales go to Brazil they will not come back to US farmers.


China is financing huge efforts in Brazil to clear land for farming, most especially soy beans.


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## Redlands Okie (Nov 28, 2017)

Comparing Neolithic Revolution times with today is interesting. Wonder what we would be reading if they had the population and machinery back then that we are using in present times. Guess our great grandkids will be able to have a better idea.


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## Redlands Okie (Nov 28, 2017)

HDRider said:


> China is financing huge efforts in Brazil to clear land for farming, most especially soy beans.


The Chinese seem to be really good at long term plans. Usually to their benefit and little to others. Hard to blame them. 
To bad USA corporations and government are not better at it. Guess thats one benefit to few decision makers, and having them being in control for long periods of time. Our people seem to have a hard time seeing past the next couple of accounting reports and vote cycles, and it shows. The slash and burn areas being discussed are also going to learn a lot more about this issue.


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

Jair Bolsonaro won Brazil’s presidential election last year running on a platform of deforestation

Might have to get used to it


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## emdeengee (Apr 20, 2010)

The indigenous people of North America have used burns to improve the land and increase yields for thousands of year. Those who burned were known as Fire Guardians and they were mostly women who passed down their knowledge from generation to generation. They did not set the whole forest on fire as is happening now. This is just about greed. And yes - Brazil and many other countries will be benefiting from the mess Trump has made with China over agriculture. Why would they not want to profit? And with Trump South in charge the environment is just as unimportant in Brazil as it is in the US. Canada is also in dispute with China over agricultural products because of Meng Wanzhou. Instead of selling for food they are switching to use the unsold crops for bio-fuels. That used to be the big thing in Brazil.

The Amazon has a long history of human settlement. Contrary to popular belief, sizable and sedentary societies of great complexity existed in the rainforests of this region. These societies produced pottery, cleared sections of rainforest for agriculture and managed forests to optimize the distribution of useful species. 

The notion of a virgin Amazon is largely the result of the population crash following the arrival of the Europeans in the sixteenth century. Studies suggest that at least 10-12% of the Amazon’s terra firme forests are “anthropogenic in nature” resulting from the careful management of biodiversity by indigenous people. However, unlike most current cultivation techniques, these Amazonians were attuned to the ecological realities of their environment from five millennia of experimentation and accumulation of knowledge, with a strong understanding of how to manage the rainforest to meet their requirements within a sustainable capacity. 

They saw the importance of maintaining biodiversity through a careful balance of natural forest, open fields and sections of forest managed so as to be dominated by species of special interest and greatest use to humans.

The idea that the Amazon is not an untouched wilderness but the product of extensive management by large human populations sharply contrasts with long-held views that the region was sparsely populated by tribal groups who peacefully coexisted with the apparently hostile environment that surrounded them.


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## Oxankle (Jun 20, 2003)

Not to worry. Much of the Amazon is such poor land that it is fit only for tropical forest and will never be crop or pasture land---much of it floods annually as well. Corn needs CO-2, grass, cane, all growing crops do the same thing that trees do. The native peoples of the Peruvian mountains can live with the rarified air at !0,000 feet. So could we if we had to. By the way; there is more forested land in the NE US than there was a century ago. Don't fret too much. All you'll get from worry is wrinkles. I just get tired of hearing relatively young people who should be enjoying life wail about POSSIBLE future gloom and doom. The attitude should be "We'll handle whatever comes, and come out on top".


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

emdeengee said:


> The indigenous people of North America have used burns to improve the land and increase yields for thousands of year. Those who burned were known as Fire Guardians and they were mostly women who passed down their knowledge from generation to generation. They did not set the whole forest on fire as is happening now. This is just about greed. And yes - Brazil and many other countries will be benefiting from the mess Trump has made with China over agriculture. Why would they not want to profit? And with Trump South in charge the environment is just as unimportant in Brazil as it is in the US. Canada is also in dispute with China over agricultural products because of Meng Wanzhou. Instead of selling for food they are switching to use the unsold crops for bio-fuels. That used to be the big thing in Brazil.
> 
> The Amazon has a long history of human settlement. Contrary to popular belief, sizable and sedentary societies of great complexity existed in the rainforests of this region. These societies produced pottery, cleared sections of rainforest for agriculture and managed forests to optimize the distribution of useful species.
> 
> ...


There’s a tendency for some to make every single thing about Donald Trump


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## emdeengee (Apr 20, 2010)

You would like to believe that but it is not correct. Trump has made a huge mess and it is getting bigger. Time to take off the rose-coloured glasses.


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

emdeengee said:


> You would like to believe that but it is not correct. Trump has made a huge mess and it is getting bigger. Time to take off the rose-coloured glasses.


Or maybe open your eyes to what need to be done


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## wdcutrsdaughter (Dec 9, 2012)

SRSLADE said:


> It has more to do with greed rather than creed.


I don't understand what this means. Greed is what is the reality of the world, I am not blind to that. That's the way things are unfolding. Go ahead and try to stop it. Or accept it and just work on yourself.


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

emdeengee said:


> They did not set *the whole forest* on fire as is happening now.


It's actually 800,000 acres out of a total of one billion.



emdeengee said:


> Trump has made a huge mess and it is getting bigger.


Trump is starting fires in Brazil?


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## JeepHammer (May 12, 2015)

1. The PLANET is a hunk of molten metal with some rock slag hardened around it.
There is no need to 'Save The Planet', it will still be here long after the BIOSPHERE that supports life is gone.
Concern yourself with preserving the biosphere that supports life.

2. The question is, If some country were dropping 'Daisy Cutter' bombs to destroy this much of the biosphere, would countries do something about this people dropping the bombs?
This is outright war on the biosphere that supports life on as large of scale as is possible.

3. The Amazon IS turning into a desert.
The Amazon *Was* self sustaining, the more rain forest, the more rain.
Once the land is cleared, it's used for soybeans or cattle. These do NOT induce the rain, so the land basically turns to desert.
The Amazon was a quirk, it probably should have been a desert due to its geographic location, but the self sustaining rain forest kept it from becoming a desert.
Humans are entirely responsible for deforesting the Amazon, it's self inflicted.

4. The Amazon *Used* to provide up to 20% of the biospheres breathable oxygen.
Mans clearing of the Amazon has reduced that to around 10% and dropping.
1 in every 10 breathes YOU take came from the Amazon.
How good are you at holding your breath?

This isn't a CO2 removal issues so CO2 doesn't collect as a green house gas.
This isn't a CO2 removal issue so CO2 doesn't become toxic.
This is a lack of basic oxygen to begin with, with reduced oxygen content, no amount of 'Scrubbing' will keep you alive.

5. The Amazon is not the rain forests of South East Asia fed by monsoons off the oceans.
The Andes mountain range blocks moisture being pumped back into the Amazon.
Once the Amazon is destroyed, no humans are going to pay to clean and pump water back into the area for centuries so the Amazon can be regrown.

6. Oxygen production from the ocean is down due to toxins killing the plant life.
The oceans are shockingly polluted, and again, it's 100% man made.
Recent trip to the deepest spots in the oceans reveal the toxic waste is more than 3,000 feet deep and rising, it's a dead zone that currents are pushing around, up & down, and coming back to haunt us.

While so many choose to stick their heads in the sand (and it's a choice) the human race is poisoning itself so they can have plastic toys and bananas in January...
It's entirely shameless want & greed, and entirely self inflicted.
Too many people 'Wanting' way more than they need, in a false 'Consumer' based economy killing the biosphere.
It's suicide by greed & willful stupidity, so enjoy your plastic & petroleum today while your off spring suffers from a lack of clean water, food shortages, and has to buy oxygen supplements later on,
They are your kids, what a legacy you are leaving them...

Just like our parents/grandparents left us Love Canal, Chernobyl, Fukushima, Times Beach, etc.
37 super fund clean up sites in Missouri alone, where profits were privatized making old white rich men even richer, and the cleanup was socialized through taxpayers.

Think what the old, rich guys are dumping where people can't see it...
And it won't affect them in their mansions & villas.

If the owner doesn't eat the same food, and drink the same water as you, when the company is owned by some 'Foreign Conglomerate' with owners thousands of miles away,
Then you are at direct risk of the next Love Canal or Times Beach, or Rocky Flats or the 10,000 other places that are too polluted to inhabit or have to be cleaned up by billions of taxpayer dollars.
That won't cover the cancers, neurological disorders, deformed babies, etc...


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

If greed is a disease, what is the antidote?


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## SLADE (Feb 20, 2004)

Bearfootfarm said:


> It's actually 800,000 acres out of a total of one billion.
> 
> 
> Trump is starting fires in Brazil?


Indirectly his crazy trade war is. The American farmer will not be happy when this is over.


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## JeepHammer (May 12, 2015)

HDRider said:


> If greed is a disease, what is the antidote?


Education.

Simply to know the difference between 'Safe' and Toxic,
The difference between 'Need' and 'Want',
The difference between functional & useful and impulsive, greedy and useless.

It won't happen, sociopaths & psychopaths are running the global companies & most all governments, and even more viscous sociopaths & psychopaths are trying to make huge fortunes at the cost of people & biosphere.
What the human trafficking, terrorists & drug cartels do, the way they conduct business is being adopted by global corporations.
With private military corporations protecting the conglomerates, it's getting even worse by the minute since the government is giving military corporations immunity from prosecution.

I'm not talking out of my butt, I was military for 16 years.
One man with a gun can control 100 without.
Giving PMCs immunity is a licence to kill civilians, anywhere, any time.

Here is some education for you,
The ONLY branch of federal law enforcement that isn't using PMC 'Contractors' is the Secret Service.
DEA, CBP, ICE, BATFE, FBI, CIA, and every other alphabet government group is using PMCs to supplement ranks with the exception of the Secret Service.
If the president doesn't trust private contractors, why should the US public?

The conspiracy theory types are ALWAYS looking the wrong direction...
Again, another complete and total lack of education.


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

Some of the smartest people, and highly educated people I have known were plenty greedy.


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

JeepHammer said:


> Education.
> 
> Simply to know the difference between 'Safe' and Toxic,
> The difference between 'Need' and 'Want',
> ...


I guess there is a point in there somewhere. I did not find it.


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## Mish (Oct 15, 2015)

I think our mistake is thinking we can fix human nature. The best we can do is recognize it for what it is.


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## D-BOONE (Feb 9, 2016)

More harm comes from all the hot air and BS of washington dc than from the farting butt of my cow 
and yet all the "sky is falling" people want to get rid of the cow......Go figure


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## emdeengee (Apr 20, 2010)

Bearfootfarm said:


> It's actually 800,000 acres out of a total of one billion.
> 
> 
> Trump is starting fires in Brazil?



The first is a pedantic comment and the second - reading comprehension problems.


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

Irish Pixie said:


> This year's fires were deliberately set, they aren't naturally occurring normal fires.


According to the media.
It's been proven they will lie though.


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## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

Bearfootfarm said:


> According to the media.
> It's been proven they will lie though.


Prove the media is lying in this case...


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

Irish Pixie said:


> Prove the media is lying in this case...


That evidence has already been shown.
I've not seen any "proof" of arson.


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## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

Bearfootfarm said:


> That evidence has already been shown.


Do you have link(s) that all the fires in the Amazon right now were naturally occurring and not deliberately set? Please enlighten me.


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

Irish Pixie said:


> Do you have link(s) that all the fires in the Amazon right now were naturally occurring and not deliberately set? *Please enlighten me*.


I didn't make that claim.
I said the media will lie.



> said: ↑
> According to the media.
> It's been proven they will lie though.


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## Alice In TX/MO (May 10, 2002)

NASA website. Says “average.”
https://earthobservatory.nasa.gov/images/145464/fires-in-brazil


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## Alice In TX/MO (May 10, 2002)

Need more?


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## Alice In TX/MO (May 10, 2002)

https://globalecoguy.org/the-three-most-important-graphs-in-climate-change-e64d3f4ed76

Dr Foley’s website. Cool stuff. 

The article about “greenhouse gasses” is good. How many of you want to give up your air conditioning?


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## HappySevenFarm (Jan 21, 2013)

1960 3 billion people worldwide 
2018 7.5 billion people worldwide 

......and we are still all breathing. 

I guess if it gets really bad we can always get rid of everyone’s pets worldwide that are using our oxygen. Then we can start regulating everyone’s workouts worldwide because they use more oxygen. If things get really bad we can always resort to Scrooge’s mentality and ‘decrease the surplus population! 

Alice had a good post which is what I was thinking as far as my limited education gave me.....I was taught way back that almost everything green produced oxygen.


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## SLADE (Feb 20, 2004)

A forest does much more than supply oxygen.


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

SRSLADE said:


> A forest does much more than supply oxygen.


So does cropland.


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## SLADE (Feb 20, 2004)

Bearfootfarm said:


> So does cropland.


The forest contains plants and animals man has never seen and after these fires will never have the chance to see. Those plants may have the cure for all mans ills. How can you I or anyone be so cavalier about it's loss.


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## gilberte (Sep 25, 2004)

Alice In TX/MO said:


> It was a collective “you.”


 We will all be assimilated into the collective, resistance is futile.



wdcutrsdaughter said:


> yes, but trying to look at it as if all is happening as it should be..... in the Bible it says 365x "do not be afraid"


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

Climate change, another wedge.


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

SRSLADE said:


> The forest contains plants and animals man has never seen and after these fires will never have the chance to see. Those plants may have the cure for all mans ills.
> *
> How can you I or anyone be so cavalier about it's loss*.


Some are more realistic than others.

You're talking about fires that are mostly in areas previously cleared, and covering less than 1 million acres in a 1 billion acre forest.


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## mreynolds (Jan 1, 2015)

Alice In TX/MO said:


> https://globalecoguy.org/the-three-most-important-graphs-in-climate-change-e64d3f4ed76
> 
> Dr Foley’s website. Cool stuff.
> 
> The article about “greenhouse gasses” is good. How many of you want to give up your air conditioning?


Wait a minute, didn't Foley vote for Reagan and Bush????

Some of you guys really crack me up. If it's a site you approve of you lap it up like a kitten with a bowl of milk. 

Whatever happened to reading the content and making a decision on that instead?


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## Alice In TX/MO (May 10, 2002)

I totally agree.


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## Alice In TX/MO (May 10, 2002)

At the risk of turning this thread more political, I don’t give a flying rat’s fanny who anyone voted for. It has no relevance to me.


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

I went to Dr. Foley's site. Read a couple of articles. Lots of information. You could spend months absorbing and studying what he has posted.

I could not find where he said we could reverse climate change. I saw where he said we could make changes in the way we live to have some impact on our contribution to CC. The changes he discusses are monumental.


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## Alice In TX/MO (May 10, 2002)

Agree. (Starting the day with a migraine. Getting off the screen for a bit.)


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

Alice In TX/MO said:


> (Starting the day with a migraine. Getting off the screen for a bit.)


Have you heard of this?:

Will Soaking Your Feet in Hot Water Relieve a Migraine?
https://migraine.com/living-migraine/soaking-your-feet-in-hot-water/


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## manfred (Dec 21, 2005)

I have owned 100 acres for 40 years . Grown up so thick you can hardly walk through it in some places. 
A fire starts somewhere and volunteer fire depts and state fire crews show up and dig trenches and put out the much bneeded burnoff. My neighbors land had a fire and the state of Okla drove dozers through my fences to put out his fire.
And then left.


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## Alice In TX/MO (May 10, 2002)

Yup. I had illegal aliens on my place, and the Texas Rangers cut fences to get their horses and dogs in my pasture..... and left.


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## Redlands Okie (Nov 28, 2017)

The downside of living in a great place .......


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## no really (Aug 7, 2013)

Alice In TX/MO said:


> Yup. I had illegal aliens on my place, and the Texas Rangers cut fences to get their horses and dogs in my pasture..... and left.


I've been lucky the BP have been through here frequently with no problem, but than again I'm related to a couple of them and they know I'd be peeved. But seriously they have keys and or combinations for all my gates.


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## Alice In TX/MO (May 10, 2002)

There wasn’t a lock on the gate 100 yards away. (Rolling eyes)


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## no really (Aug 7, 2013)

Alice In TX/MO said:


> There wasn’t a lock on the gate 100 yards away. (Rolling eyes)


Sounds like a bunch of dimwits, Rangers can be a pain in the backside.


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## Alice In TX/MO (May 10, 2002)

Follow up....

https://www.forbes.com/sites/michae...the-lungs-of-the-world-is-wrong/#271483b5bde0


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## no really (Aug 7, 2013)

Alice In TX/MO said:


> Follow up....
> 
> https://www.forbes.com/sites/michae...the-lungs-of-the-world-is-wrong/#271483b5bde0


Thanks for the info, sure puts a different light on the issue.


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## emdeengee (Apr 20, 2010)

Lungs of the world is just one of the huge benefits from the Amazon. Moisture that completely controls the rainfall and temperature of Brazil and South America as well as a huge influence on the Caribbean and US is just as important to the world. 

Keep burning and all the grasslands and farms that have been cut into the forest will not have the water needed to produce anything.


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

emdeengee said:


> Lungs of the world is just one of the huge benefits from the Amazon. Moisture that completely controls the rainfall and temperature of Brazil and South America as well as a huge influence on the Caribbean and US is just as important to the world.
> 
> Keep burning and all the grasslands and farms that have been cut into the forest will not have the water needed to produce anything.


You did not go to the link did you?

*Why Everything They Say About The Amazon, Including That It's The 'Lungs Of The World,' Is Wrong*


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## Alice In TX/MO (May 10, 2002)

Please read information on other posts that provide links. The "lungs of the world" concept has been declared bogus by climate experts.


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## shawnlee (Apr 13, 2010)

SRSLADE said:


> What if your'e wrong?



What if he is right ?



Mish said:


> I know in California (in most of the west, actually) there area species of plants and trees that require fires for proper seed germination. By suppressing forest fires out here for decade we've changed the way forests grow, allowing non-natives to overtake natives as the natives can't propagate themselves properly. In some cases this increases fires because non-natives burn faster/harder (looking at you, eucalyptus). I have to imagine the same is true in most fire-prone forests. Even rain forests.
> 
> Fire is part of the natural cycle, we start messing with it and there are going to be unforeseen consequences.



When the humans think they need to regulate what has existed for a long time almost always ends up bad,...….



SRSLADE said:


> If it's put under agricultural production after the fires it will not grow back. A cow is not a tree.



There you have the answer to the question of the fires,...…...the media is controlling perception and this is just another exercise in mind control,.....how many will donate, how many will believe global warming,...how many will believe some sort of nefarious arson....etc etc etc,...…..


The media could be telling everyone this is great right now and millions upon millions would be on board.


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## SLADE (Feb 20, 2004)

emdeengee said:


> Lungs of the world is just one of the huge benefits from the Amazon. Moisture that completely controls the rainfall and temperature of Brazil and South America as well as a huge influence on the Caribbean and US is just as important to the world.
> 
> Keep burning and all the grasslands and farms that have been cut into the forest will not have the water needed to produce anything.


What you say is interesting and something to think about. Refreshing and so unlike those that fixate on talking points.


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

emdeengee said:


> *Lungs of the world* is just one of the huge benefits from the Amazon.


That phrase is really just a fabrication by the media.
Links have already been posted refuting it.



emdeengee said:


> Keep burning and all the grasslands and farms that have been cut into the forest will not have the water needed to produce anything.


Do you have any evidence to support that theory?
Has there been any substantial drops in rainfall totals in the past that you can show?
These fires are nothing new, so there should be data if what you say is true.


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## Alice In TX/MO (May 10, 2002)

Focusing on talking points? That's a bad thing?


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## SLADE (Feb 20, 2004)

Alternative talking points.


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

SRSLADE said:


> Alternative talking points.


An alternative to what, an alternative to your talking points?


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## Alice In TX/MO (May 10, 2002)

Is that like alternative facts?


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

A million opinions do not outweigh a single fact.


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## SLADE (Feb 20, 2004)

Iv'e mentioned that China will be buying grain from Brazil and not the US farmer. That's one alternative. Would you like to use that as a talking point?


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## Alice In TX/MO (May 10, 2002)

1. I don't grow grain.
2. I do not live in China or Brazil.
3. I have no influence in the trade decisions of China, Brazil, or the U.S.

Sometimes, you just have to go out and watch the goats. It's much less stressful.


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

SRSLADE said:


> Iv'e mentioned that China will be buying grain from Brazil and not the US farmer. That's one alternative. Would you like to use that as a talking point?


That is a fact


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

SRSLADE said:


> Alternative talking points.


That's all she posted, straight from CNN.



> *The Taiga: Lungs of the World - The Writer's Beat*
> https://writersbeat.com/the-taiga-lungs-of-the-world-t9653.html
> *Siberian Taiga*. *It produces more oxygen and absorbs more carbon dioxide than all of the tropical rainforests combined.*


I don't recall any big headlines when 5 million acres burned there.


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## wr (Aug 10, 2003)

Discussion is in GC. Threads including profanity and insults have been deleted.


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

SRSLADE said:


> Iv'e mentioned that China will be buying grain from Brazil and not the US farmer. That's one alternative. Would you like to use that as a talking point?


That won't change world wide demand.
According to some, Brazil is doomed due to climate change anyway, and soon won't be producing any crops at all.


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## po boy (Jul 12, 2010)

SRSLADE said:


> Iv'e mentioned that China will be buying grain from Brazil and not the US farmer. That's one alternative. Would you like to use that as a talking point?


Yep, Iv'e mentioned that Brazil's exports are down. I don't think China can wait for a new crop to grow and be harvested.


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## dyrne (Feb 22, 2015)

Well, I've seen numbers claiming 20% of oxygen is generated by the Amazon rainforests but even at that, 70% comes from the ocean. If we reduce oxygen by 20% say, turning them into another Sahara, that would only be the equivalent of what going from 1000' above sea level to 7000' -flagstaff AZ? Now this would really suck for people already someplace like La Paz, Bolivia... or similar spots. They'd be flirting with hypoxia... after typing this out I'm not sure were I was going. It isn't as bad as it seems? I'm glad I don't live in La Paz Bolivia?


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## SLADE (Feb 20, 2004)

Bearfootfarm said:


> That won't change world wide demand.
> According to some, Brazil is doomed due to climate change anyway, and soon won't be producing any crops at all.


That's interesting but I can't see how slashing forest and burning fields will help.


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

SRSLADE said:


> That's interesting but I can't see how slashing forest and burning fields will help.


They can grow more crops that will feed more people and create just as much oxygen.

Burning fields also kills pests and reduces the need for chemical pesticides, while returning nutrients to the soil.


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## dyrne (Feb 22, 2015)

Bearfootfarm said:


> They can grow more crops that will feed more people and create just as much oxygen.
> 
> Burning fields also kills pests and reduces the need for chemical pesticides, while returning nutrients to the soil.



Crops will not generate anywhere near the amount of oxygen per acre as rainforest. If you look at a forest canopy, you're dealing with orders of magnitude more plants than a sown however many feet tall corn plant.


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

dyrne said:


> Crops will not generate anywhere near the amount of oxygen per acre as rainforest. If you look at a *forest canopy*, you're dealing with orders of magnitude more plants than a sown however many feet tall corn plant.


Most of the fires have been in fields that were cleared before.
They had no "forest canopy":
https://abcnews.go.com/International/video/amazon-rainforest-continues-burn-record-rates-65198723

The actual "forest" is still mostly intact.


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## SLADE (Feb 20, 2004)

The film indicates burning the fields is setting the surrounding forest on fire. Their troops have no equipment to fight the fire with.
The international community should insist they accept help or face condemnation in the UN.


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## emdeengee (Apr 20, 2010)

Our planet has several lungs but each is vitally important. The Amazon of course and the Boreal Forest and the oceans. Unfortunately we are attacking all of these areas. And of coarse each of these areas does so much more for the planet and humans than just supplying oxygen.


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

SRSLADE said:


> The film indicates burning the fields is setting the surrounding forest on fire. Their troops have no equipment to fight the fire with.


The film indicates most of the fires are in areas already cleared of forest, just like I said.
Troops have all the same equipment that anyone has to fight forest fires.



SRSLADE said:


> The international community should* insist they accept help* or face condemnation in the UN.


What makes you think we can tell another country what they have to do within their own borders?


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## emdeengee (Apr 20, 2010)

Bearfootfarm said:


> What makes you think we can tell another country what they have to do within their own borders?



Past history and behaviour as well as current behaviour. Is it right or effective? Hardly but it has never stopped the US or Russia or just about every country in the world or organization including the UN. And of course money talks. Truman was wrong. Speak softly and pass out a lot of cash would be more accurate and it is exactly what China is doing around the world..


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## Alice In TX/MO (May 10, 2002)

Yup, we tell 'em and tell 'em. They then decide what to do. Sort of like toddlers and teenagers and husbands.


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

emdeengee said:


> Past history and behaviour as well as current behaviour. *Is it right or effective? Hardly* but it has never stopped the US or Russia or just about every country in the world or organization including the UN.


Has it ever stopped the countries from doing as they pleased?
If you admit it's not right and not effective, why suggest doing it at all?


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## Alice In TX/MO (May 10, 2002)

Because it is the way things are done. It is the core of human communication. Tell others what you think. They say what they think.


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

Alice In TX/MO said:


> Tell others what you think.


I don't think the farmers in Brazil care what we think.
I think they care more about making enough money to survive.


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## Alice In TX/MO (May 10, 2002)

I didn't say they CARED. That wasn't part of the formula at ALL.


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## SLADE (Feb 20, 2004)

In 2014 Brazil had another 100 million acres to turn into farm land.
They already had many mega farms. A large labor force and small equipment.


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## Mish (Oct 15, 2015)

Alice In TX/MO said:


> I didn't say they CARED. That wasn't part of the formula at ALL.


Just think how much more quiet the world would be if that _were_ part of the formula, though


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## Alice In TX/MO (May 10, 2002)

Mish, I totally understand.

Today at the hardware store, I saw a gentleman with a slogan T-shirt that said....

I used to be a people person...
But people ruined it for me.


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## SLADE (Feb 20, 2004)

I just learned that Brazil has a landmass larger than the continental US all of Hawaii and 2/3 of Alaska. Who knew?


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## mreynolds (Jan 1, 2015)

SRSLADE said:


> I just learned that Brazil has a landmass larger than the continental US all of Hawaii and 2/3 of Alaska. Who knew?


Brazil?


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

SRSLADE said:


> Who knew?


Most everyone?


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## SLADE (Feb 20, 2004)

I just try to reinforce what you already know. Did you also know 60 percent is tropical rain forest? That is also 60 percent of the Amazon rain forest.


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## GTX63 (Dec 13, 2016)

Alice In TX/MO said:


> Mish, I totally understand.
> 
> Today at the hardware store, I saw a gentleman with a slogan T-shirt that said....
> 
> ...


I'm thinking of wearing that to Church Sunday.


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## emdeengee (Apr 20, 2010)

Brazil is the fifth largest country at 8.51 million square kilometers. The US is the third largest at 9.63 million square kilometers. Canada is second at 9.98 million square kilometers and Russia is first at a huge 17.1 million square kilometres.


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

SRSLADE said:


> I just try to reinforce what you already know. *Did you also know* 60 percent is tropical rain forest? That is also 60 percent of the Amazon rain forest.


Did you know there are *more* trees now worldwide than 35 years ago?

https://www.spiked-online.com/2019/08/27/the-myth-of-ecocide/



> As made clear by a substantial report in Nature, published last year, the world’s tree cover has increased over the past 35 years. In three decades, 2.24million square kilometres of trees – an area the size of Texas and Alaska combined – have been added to the world’s already existing tree-covered land.
> 
> The study, involving satellite analysis of the Earth from 1982 to 2016, found that while there has been some tree loss in subtropical areas, this has been ‘outweighed by tree-cover gain in subtropical, temperate, boreal, and polar regions’.


Did you know the rain forests produce almost zero *excess* oxygen?

There's enough oxygen in the atmosphere, and produced by ocean plants that all the forests in the world could burn and no one would notice the difference as far as the amount of oxygen in the air.

https://www.space.com/amazon-fires-are-not-depleting-earth-oxygen.html



> Nearly all free oxygen in the air is produced by plants through photosynthesis. About one-third of land photosynthesis occurs in tropical forests, the largest of which is located in the Amazon Basin.
> 
> *But virtually all of the oxygen produced by photosynthesis each year is consumed by living organisms and fires.* Trees constantly shed dead leaves, twigs, roots and other litter, which feeds a rich ecosystem of organisms, mostly insects and microbes. The microbes consume oxygen in that process.
> 
> Forest plants produce lots of oxygen, and forest microbes consume a lot of oxygen. *As a result, net production of oxygen by forests — and indeed, all land plants — is very close to zero.*


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## SLADE (Feb 20, 2004)

That's interesting but it's not all about the oxygen.
That was just the spin on the left.


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## emdeengee (Apr 20, 2010)

And although not very effective - every once in a while someone will actually think about what they are doing because of what is being said by others.


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## SLADE (Feb 20, 2004)

emdeengee said:


> Brazil is the fifth largest country at 8.51 million square kilometers. The US is the third largest at 9.63 million square kilometers. Canada is second at 9.98 million square kilometers and Russia is first at a huge 17.1 million square kilometres.


When taking in account the other third of Alaska we beat them by a hairs breath. That third is out there.


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## mreynolds (Jan 1, 2015)

emdeengee said:


> Brazil is the fifth largest country at 8.51 million square kilometers. The US is the third largest at 9.63 million square kilometers. Canada is second at 9.98 million square kilometers and Russia is first at a huge 17.1 million square kilometres.


Well but who is the fourth?


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## GunMonkeyIntl (May 13, 2013)

mreynolds said:


> Well but who is the fourth?


China or Australia, probably.


ETA: oh, I forgot Kerplakistan.


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## mreynolds (Jan 1, 2015)

GunMonkeyIntl said:


> China or Australia, probably.
> 
> 
> ETA: oh, I forgot Kerplakistan.


Eh, I think it's China but would have to double check. I'm just ocd I guess because the fourth wasn't mentioned lol. 

Never heard of the Kerplakinians. Do you speak Kerplakin?


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

SRSLADE said:


> That's interesting but *it's not all about the oxygen*.
> That was just the spin on the left.


LOL
It was "all about the oxygen" until that was proven false.


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

mreynolds said:


> Do you speak Kerplakin?


I bet @no really either speaks it, or knows someone who does.
She's got connections.


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

mreynolds said:


> Eh, I think it's China but would have to double check. I'm just ocd I guess because the fourth wasn't mentioned lol.
> 
> Never heard of the Kerplakinians. Do you speak Kerplakin?


I think it is Kerplaki.


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## mreynolds (Jan 1, 2015)

Bearfootfarm said:


> I bet @no really either speaks it, or knows someone who does.
> She's got connections.


008


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## no really (Aug 7, 2013)

Bearfootfarm said:


> I bet @no really either speaks it, or knows someone who does.
> She's got connections.


Only when I've had to much to drink.


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## SLADE (Feb 20, 2004)

Bearfootfarm said:


> LOL
> It was "all about the oxygen" until that was proven false.


I never said it was about the oxygen. It's about biodiversity, Displacement of indigenous peoples and animals and the cutting of rain forest to raise cows and soy for china.
All this is because of mistakes in our nations trade practices.
I also mentioned that farmers are suffering and will, going forward.
That's if they have a farm to go forward with.


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

no really said:


> Only when I've had to much to drink.


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## Alder (Aug 18, 2014)

Nope. We have enough of our own fires here in this country from time to time, and I'm betting the Amazon doesn't give one flying fig about 'em either.


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

Alder said:


> Nope. We have enough of our own fires here in this country from time to time, and I'm betting the Amazon doesn't give one flying fig about 'em either.


Everything is our fault.


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## Alice In TX/MO (May 10, 2002)

Not mine! LOL


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## 1948CaseVAI (May 12, 2014)

Oh good grief folks. This is NO big deal at all. Much of what is on fire is intentional burning of the ag lands and happens every year. Just east of me we have annual burning of the entire flint hils in order to restore the grass and the tree hugging people get theior pants all in a wad over it. I guess there are some people who have to be worried about something all the time.


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## Alice In TX/MO (May 10, 2002)

Turns out there are other fires...

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-africa-49471644


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## po boy (Jul 12, 2010)

Alice In TX/MO said:


> Turns out there are other fires...
> 
> https://www.bbc.com/news/world-africa-49471644


Caused by an ember from the Amazon?


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## SLADE (Feb 20, 2004)

To create more farm land to sell.agricultural products to China. Yet another market for grain and meat. China is very involved in Africa. What american food companies are owned by China?


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

SRSLADE said:


> What american food companies are owned by China?


https://www.bing.com/search?q=What+...-48&sk=&cvid=61A3186B32954A79A5A2D258454A2C6F


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## jen32245 (Jun 29, 2019)

SRSLADE said:


> Anyone else feeling uneasy about the fires?


Definitely. Too much nature and animals dying.


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## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

SRSLADE said:


> To create more farm land to sell.agricultural products to China. Yet another market for grain and meat. China is very involved in Africa. What american food companies are owned by China?


From the link provided in post #152, it looks like Smithfield Foods is owned by China.


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## SLADE (Feb 20, 2004)

Irish Pixie said:


> From the link provided in post #152, it looks like Smithfield Foods is owned by China.


That's right. If you feel like it, take a look at what companies smithfield owns. It's a conglomerate.


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## shawnlee (Apr 13, 2010)

SRSLADE said:


> I never said it was about the oxygen. It's about biodiversity, Displacement of indigenous peoples and animals and the cutting of rain forest to raise cows and soy for china.
> All this is because of mistakes in our nations trade practices.
> I also mentioned that farmers are suffering and will, going forward.
> That's if they have a farm to go forward with.



Perhaps this country is destined to be more than peasant bulk grain harvesters for the starving commies,...……


PS, they are still buying stuff

PS,.. they always will

PS,...things change

PS,.. people and markets adapt

PS,....they will get over it

PS,.. in the end it is better for us

PS,...quit buying cheap Chinese garbage

PS,.. nothings fair

PS,.. it never will be

PS,...quit looking for it

PS …….


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## SLADE (Feb 20, 2004)

shawnlee said:


> PS,.. in the end it is better for us


Could you explain how it will be better. PS,should I learn mandarin?


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## Redlands Okie (Nov 28, 2017)

Yes you should learn mandarin. Recently a friend was discussing his child learning a 2 language. Spanish was the most likely choice. I had to ask if they in general wanted to talk and interact with the workers and low level management or learn mandarin and be more likely to talk to the upper management and investors as well as workers.


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## wr (Aug 10, 2003)

Please review rules regarding insults.


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