# Lack of Empethy.....Lack of Commpassion....???



## Sourdough (Dec 28, 2011)

OK, I just went slightly postal on the "Got Cash" Thread. And I am NOT sorry. I may well get "Banned" but so what.


Their post:

"Sometime the lack of compassion for others is breathtaking on this being" "Your fault" in times of distress or emergency. 


Usually I just lurk and not engage when I see some of the mean hateful and hurtful responses to the poor or under prepared victims of disasters.

If you are prepared great, if you have cash, marvelous, if you have food etc. Godspeed!!!

But others who may come here feel lack of sympathy for help or advice (me) for example feel the coldness, judgment even derision of some of you. As if, as victims, They deserve what we get. Starvation, freezing or death? Really?

We as Americans use to be known as compassionate and kind and generous. 

Wow , what happened, and how many of you are self described Christian Do you know how you come across?" 

My response:

GOD HELPS THEM WHO HELP THEMSELVES...........
(I think you are 100% WRONG) This nothing Millions and Millions of Americans are going to DIE. This not a JOKE. People who are prepared are going to have to KILL people who were warned, and were too STUPID to get ready. 

I am sorry but it is hard for me to be empathic toward people who have cancer because they smoked, people who live below "Sea level", and people that are my friends and I have warned to get ready, and they laugh. I guess I am just un-caring, non-empathic SOB.
(I feel much better now)......:ashamed:


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## mpillow (Jan 24, 2003)

self responsibility...actions and consequences....simple as that!


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## Sonshine (Jul 27, 2007)

I know that is some cases, maybe most cases, people find themselves in situations that could have been avoided. However, we are all human and we all make mistakes. If I'm able to, I try to help those who have a need. IMO that's what separates the humans from the animals.


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## mekasmom (Jan 19, 2010)

Sourdough said:


> My response:
> 
> GOD HELPS THEM WHO HELP THEMSELVES...........
> 
> ...



The first sentence quoted is not a scripture. That is what you posted. 
I can give you a scripture about this subject though. Prov 6.16 tells us things God Almighty hates, doesn't dislike, but actually hates.... number one? a proud look. We all need to be careful about that because we don't want Jesus to look at us with disgust or hate towards what we do or how our heart really is inside.


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## unregistered65598 (Oct 4, 2010)

I have to agree with sourdough, you build your house below sea level where hurricanes are going to happen, you build on a mountian side in an area with lots of rain, you build on a beach where hurricanes will happen, you live in a trailer in an area known for tornados, you live where ice and snow storms will happen. What do you think is going to happen? Why would you not be prepared to survive what most likely will happen in the area that you live in. I can not feel sorry for these people. They know the risks yet do nothing but wait for the gooberment to come save them. I live where snow and bitter cold will happen, so I am prepared with salt, sand, shovel, way to start fire, first aid, food and water when travling on the roads. At home we are prepared with food, water,first aid and a way to stay warm. Why would you not think about what not only could, but will happen? It doesn't cost that much to get prepared, Instead of that 3$ coffee, buy a bag of rice and a bag of beans. There are so many examples of money spent on things you don't need that can be replaced by items you do need. So Sourdough I may get banned with you, but as you put it "so what".


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## AngieM2 (May 10, 2002)

sourdough - you're safe. 

And I'd have seen this sooner but I've been watching weather radar while in a mobile home with tornado warnings coming up quick. So, I was paying attention. the warnings came up quicker than it was safe for me to get out of home and go to one of the two alternate places for these times.

And I do have the chance and responsibility of living in a mobile home where we have tornados. Since I cannot afford to move, I do pay extreme attention to the weather - this time was not good enough to get out.
But fortunately all the warnings were just weather men saying there was rotation possibilities in the clouds but no one saw one.

I only mention that as people here would have felt badly if something had happened to my home (or many would), but they are not responsible for where I live. Most do not understand a mobile home here, but it's what I can afford, so I prep by making sure to have alternate possibilities to see about not getting killed in a tornado. That does include getting low in a ditch full of water if needed.

We have to help ourselves, then people will want to help - but sitting and moaning and not working to help yourself does not get the compassion many in that state think they are owed.

There is a sticky thread about this not being PC forum, and we do say ideas that some don't like down here. Not everyone can take it; and this forum really is "survival light" as the really true down to business survival sites are a lot more cut throat and explicit about how to survive when the grasshoppers come calling after an even, and it's not to invite them in for supper.

Oh well, more rain and it's dark, more issues can hide in the dark.


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## Forerunner (Mar 23, 2007)

Noah was eventually instructed to close the ark doors.

Then there is the parable of the ten virgins, and how the five who were prepared handled the five who were not.......

Do what you can, now...... and be ready to exercise some serious discretion when the day comes.


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## triple divide (Jan 7, 2010)

Why worry about being banned from an Internet forum, lol!? 

SD, if you are a Christian and faithful to the Lord first, you know this earth is not yours. No individual is tasked by God to save the world. That job has already been filled. 

So relax. Set an example, and move forward. IMO if your first alegience is to God, he will speak to you about who to help and when.


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## zant (Dec 1, 2005)

Don't worry about it-I too am "uncaring and non-empathetic"...while the wife and I have prepared to be self-sufficent and have enough stored away to survive independently for a minimum of 1 yr...and have the skills and mindset to defend it......many sheeple that apparently are'nt smart enough or DON'T WANT to see the economic realities are spending money on big screens,srtupid car payments,fancy clothes and electronics........remember the grasshopper and the ant.


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## Forerunner (Mar 23, 2007)

triple divide said:


> Why worry about being banned from an Internet forum, lol!?






Why, that's almost blasphemy !

HT isn't just any old internet forum !






I do agree with the rest of your post, though.


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## unregistered65598 (Oct 4, 2010)

AngieM2 said:


> sourdough - you're safe.
> 
> And I'd have seen this sooner but I've been watching weather radar while in a mobile home with tornado warnings coming up quick. So, I was paying attention. the warnings came up quicker than it was safe for me to get out of home and go to one of the two alternate places for these times.
> 
> ...


I in no way was trying to cut down on those who live in mobil homes, You are the perfect example of someone who is prepared in all ways that you can. Yes you are someone I would have been greatly concerned for should something bad have happened. I am not saying those who live in mobil homes are asking for what they are getting, I am sorry I came accross that way. But if that is what you have and what you need to prepare for then do so. Don't just sit back and think well someone else will take care of me. You have back up plans in place and sometimes there is not enough warning to implement those. Those are the ones I will bend over backward for. Sorry you got this scare tonight and I am glad to hear you are safe and well.


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## AngieM2 (May 10, 2002)

Merks - I took no insult to your reference to mobile homes. It's been proven true. When I bought this one, by boss at the time was sorry I was buying a death trap.
It's something I live with due to circumstances, and sicne I've not figured out how to live elsewhere, YET, I stay extra vigilant during the possibility of bad weather and have a couple of places I usually leave earlier and go to.

No insult taken.


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## katydidagain (Jun 11, 2004)

I don't expect your sympathy or compassion. Until I landed in Brrrhio, I had never been ripped off or used by mechanics and such for services for which I paid them. I have been taken financially before thus I'm not in the position at this time to prep at all and may never be again. (Used to keep quite a pantry and all that but can't now.) 

As my mother told me "Life isn't fair."


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## nostawmama (Dec 29, 2011)

katydidagain- remember there are things that you could do to prepare for emergencies that don't cost money. my family is currently in a very tough financial situation as well and some preps are on hold but finding knowledge is frequently free. 

Things such as angie paying attention to her surroundings and weather because she is in a vulnerable situation doesn't cost anything but goes a long way in keeping prepared.

I have a lack of empathy/compassion for the people that make stupid decisions because they don't pay attention or because they stick there head in their..i mean in the mud and don't do anything!


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## AngieM2 (May 10, 2002)

katydidagain said:


> I don't expect your sympathy or compassion. Until I landed in Brrrhio, I had never been ripped off or used by mechanics and such for services for which I paid them. I have been taken financially before thus I'm not in the position at this time to prep at all and may never be again. (Used to keep quite a pantry and all that but can't now.)
> 
> As my mother told me "Life isn't fair."


Katy - I got told that a whole lot growing up also, and told it to my children. Also, found out how unfair it can be - one of the contributing factors to the mobile home.

But you are prepared as much as you can be, and you are aware and have residiual knowledge from when you had the "things"; I think knowledge is probably more important than the things. Cause when the bit problem happens, and others don't know what to do with what they have or die due to issues - you will have the knowledge to trade for taking care of yourself, or use the remainders that are abandoned or such by those that don't know what to do.


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## elkhound (May 30, 2006)

1 Timothy 5:8 But if any provide not for his own, and especially for those of his own house, he hath denied the faith, and is worse than an infidel.


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## katydidagain (Jun 11, 2004)

nostawmama said:


> katydidagain- remember there are things that you could do to prepare for emergencies that don't cost money. my family is currently in a very tough financial situation as well and some preps are on hold but finding knowledge is frequently free.
> 
> Things such as angie paying attention to her surroundings and weather because she is in a vulnerable situation doesn't cost anything but goes a long way in keeping prepared.
> 
> I have a lack of empathy/compassion for the people that make stupid decisions because they don't pay attention or because they stick there head in their..i mean in the mud and don't do anything!


No, I can't prepare; I cannot accumulate anything where I live right now. Not my home.

I have some money to invest in preps but no place to put them. I have a little bit of hard currency but that's about it. 

I grew up with a mother who had a pantry that would make many of you envious; I kept 1 for myself for most of my adult life. I didn't plan to land in Hades but that is where I am; I have been trying for 2 years to get out of here to where I can be prepared. If the SHTF sooner than I get out, so be it. I do eat dandelion buds-they're quite yummy!

BTW, I don't think implying that someone is stupid is very nice; it's like calling someone a moron and that's really not acceptable or so I've been told on HT. Like every other human being on earth (even you!), I made the best decisions I could based on the facts at hand at the time; I ended up stuck here. I said I didn't expect sympathy or compassion. What more do you want?

"Judge not lest you be judged..."


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## elkhound (May 30, 2006)

katy i know once you get settled in a spot you will have a huge pantry and your gardens will flurish.cause i seen them back in the day..hold on you will get there.


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## Melissa (Apr 15, 2002)

I think you can still feel badly for people and have compassion for them-even when they make mistakes or do things differently than they should. You just never know exactly why they ended up in the situation they are in. Even the best prepared person can end up in awful situations. The best thing to do is spread the word, prepare yourself the best you can, and help as you are able.


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## katydidagain (Jun 11, 2004)

elkhound said:


> katy i know once you get settled in a spot you will have a huge pantry and your gardens will flurish.cause i seen them back in the day..hold on you will get there.


I hope. I miss having a garden; I miss putting up stuff. I miss my life.


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## texican (Oct 4, 2003)

I strike up conversations with total strangers, telling them they should start preparing for hard times... their standard comeback, they can't afford it, with the kids sports, the alcohol bills, the tobacco bills, the eating out bills, the new car/new truck/new bass boat bills, etc. My sympathy meter (like a tightwad mean old sonofabiscuit eater) drops to zero when they tell me these things.

I reckon part of my standard spiel on how to get ahead in life is to drop alcohol, tobacco, drugs of all makes, and all entertainment (that costs money... reading books and watching dvd's from the library are Free!). Whey folks resist austerity, I automatically write them off my list of possible people worth saving.

Work hard, save everything, scrounge whenever possible. Get ready for the dark days now, or die. Very simple in theory, difficult to follow in practice... the Siren Calls of luxury smash many a good ship...


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## Sonshine (Jul 27, 2007)

Merks said:


> I have to agree with sourdough, you build your house below sea level where hurricanes are going to happen, you build on a mountian side in an area with lots of rain, you build on a beach where hurricanes will happen, you live in a trailer in an area known for tornados, you live where ice and snow storms will happen. What do you think is going to happen? Why would you not be prepared to survive what most likely will happen in the area that you live in. I can not feel sorry for these people. They know the risks yet do nothing but wait for the gooberment to come save them. I live where snow and bitter cold will happen, so I am prepared with salt, sand, shovel, way to start fire, first aid, food and water when travling on the roads. At home we are prepared with food, water,first aid and a way to stay warm. Why would you not think about what not only could, but will happen? It doesn't cost that much to get prepared, Instead of that 3$ coffee, buy a bag of rice and a bag of beans. There are so many examples of money spent on things you don't need that can be replaced by items you do need. So Sourdough I may get banned with you, but as you put it "so what".


Can you tell me one place in the United States that you aren't in danger of a single natural disaster? I haven't found one yet. Things happen. There is no way to be prepared for every eventuality. For instance, you say at home you are prepared with food and water, ect. What happens if your house burns to the ground? What happens when you are experiencing a long term drought and the forests around you catch fire?


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## Sonshine (Jul 27, 2007)

AngieM2 said:


> sourdough - you're safe.
> 
> And I'd have seen this sooner but I've been watching weather radar while in a mobile home with tornado warnings coming up quick. So, I was paying attention. the warnings came up quicker than it was safe for me to get out of home and go to one of the two alternate places for these times.
> 
> ...


Angie, from what I saw on what the poster said, it didn't seem to me like he/she was saying people should not prepare, but that it seems too many are concerned with just themselves, regardless of what others may face. Like you, I live in a mobile home. But I have lived in a brick home before that was destroyed by fire. I've seen homes in Florida where sinkholes completely swallowed them up. Some things we have no control over. IMO, it's those people the other poster was referring to. Do we just ignore the sufferings of others because we're ready?


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## AngieM2 (May 10, 2002)

Read what I posted, I already answered that question.


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## Sonshine (Jul 27, 2007)

For I was an hungred, and ye gave me meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me in:


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## elkhound (May 30, 2006)

prepping and homesteading is work and a lot of folks are allergic to work.even without funds you can read on internet and go to library....study up on things,...but thats work too.

i am lazy and half crippled at times but i keep going forward.i cant cut firewood by the pick up load in a hour anymore.but i can cut and split and stack my loader bucket full with ease.so i gauge my work load by that.a loader bucket full each day adds up.at times i can do it all day and the next.


and every little bit adds up in the end.be it leftovers,tomato,peppers,etc keep after it.

back in bible days when famine hit egypt they had been putting grain away for 7 years...then famine hit for 7 years.people talk like a month of food is something...pfttt..could you imagine how much grain was stored for an entire country.

i seen the grain bins underground they think was used at that time.they are huge.


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## elkhound (May 30, 2006)

katydidagain said:


> I hope. I miss having a garden; I miss putting up stuff. I miss my life.


your at the beginning of the new life...let the old go and bounce forward at your speed.you will succeed .


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## Melissa (Apr 15, 2002)

I think people can become frustrated or jaded in certain situations. I doubt though that anyone would be happy or gloat over the misfortune of others. If someone is hungry or thirsty or homeless, you would still feel bad that they are in that situation- even if you felt they had responsiblity for their situation. That is what empathy is all about...


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## elkhound (May 30, 2006)

Lazy hands make a man poor, but diligent hands bring wealth. Proverbs 10:4

How long will you lie there, you sluggard? When will you get up from your sleep? A little sleep, a little slumber, a little folding of the hands to rest -- and poverty will come on you like a bandit and scarcity like an armed man. Proverbs 6:9-11


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## unregistered41671 (Dec 29, 2009)

I will help anyone that I can, without taking food away from my family, or endangering my family. I will not go very far out of my way to help those that *refuse* to help themselves.


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## elkhound (May 30, 2006)

For even when we were with you, we gave you this rule: "If a man will not work, he shall not eat." 2 Thessalonians 3:10


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## triple divide (Jan 7, 2010)

If we're going to be quoting scripture, I've got one for everyone that is relevent to this subject and never, ever, seems to get any play (even in church)

John 7:24 "Judge not according to the appearance, but judge righteous judgment"

The whole "Judge not.." verse of Mathew is speaking of condemnation. Something none should endeavor into, rather instead we should be loving. But! Judging is not sinful if it is measured with the yardstick of God's word. Then a decision can be prudently made whether to sympathize, empathize, follow, or whatever. 

At least, that's what I've been taught. 

I'll get off the pulpit now...


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## elkhound (May 30, 2006)

i think a person needs to be able to have vision to.to see the future and whats coming....sometimes its just plain simple truth..like right no for example...i think garden seed is going to be scarce come spring...so i am rounding out my seed stocks...NOW... i ordered fodder beets from my patriotsupply this week.found a pound of turnips for cheap too.got it.i am collecting double the seed from my gardens i usually do as well.


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## AngieM2 (May 10, 2002)

Sonshine said:


> For I was an hungred, and ye gave me meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me in:


Sonshine - I'll reveal an issue I have with the Christians of the board and in any board - And I try to be a Christian.
The issue is, using a Bible verse to prove anything in a conversation such as this. Because you see, I have learned from 13 years of being married to a con man that could do just what you did - cherry pick verses to prove anything and everything. I eventually got smart enough to learn that the Bible can be used by the believers and non-believers alike to prove anything they want to prove, if they cherry pick the verses.

Now, just to see what was surrounding your chose verse I googled it to get the exact Chapter and Verse, since it was not provided in your post.

Matthew 25 KJV

For those that care to read along, or refer to it. 
We all have to live with ourselves, we all have to make our determinations.

But what struck me in the complete teaching that the verse you chose came from is that 3 or 4 times, Jesus gave a few something of value to see how they kept or multiplied it and scolded those that frittered it away or did nothing. 

And if all of us wait to be the "lesser of these" then there will be no one taking care of themselves so that the "lesser of these" can be taken care of by those that are called to do so.

So, please, While I totally believe in Jesus and the Bible; I also know that it irritates other that are non believers and that it does not much to promote anyone to be a believer as many have learned and hate to see, the cherry picked verses that are used to try to shame either a Christian to do something or not do it, or a non-Christian to do or not do something. 

And, just to let you know, I do help others and have helped others here, I don't talk about it or who, and after I help I usually forget who as that was not the point of the help. But, those that are not trying to help themselves - them, I don't help.


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## Sonshine (Jul 27, 2007)

AngieM2 said:


> Sonshine - I'll reveal an issue I have with the Christians of the board and in any board - And I try to be a Christian.
> The issue is, using a Bible verse to prove anything in a conversation such as this. Because you see, I have learned from 13 years of being married to a con man that could do just what you did - cherry pick verses to prove anything and everything. I eventually got smart enough to learn that the Bible can be used by the believers and non-believers alike to prove anything they want to prove, if they cherry pick the verses.
> 
> Now, just to see what was surrounding your chose verse I googled it to get the exact Chapter and Verse, since it was not provided in your post.
> ...


I don't believe I was the only one using scriptures. But that's ok. I'll leave. God bless you and yours. This crowd seems to have lost a lot of what I liked about it. Teaching one another to prep and giving encouragement to those who have been hit with unexpected tragedies. Seems everyone has completely missed my point. I never said that people shouldn't prep, but that no one can prep for every eventuality. So everyone here can ignore those who lose everything. I can't. Oh, BTW, this was the verse I meant to post:

Matthew 25: 34 &#8220;Then the King will say to those on his right, &#8216;Come, you who are blessed by my Father, inherit the Kingdom prepared for you from the creation of the world. 35 For I was hungry, and you fed me. I was thirsty, and you gave me a drink. I was a stranger, and you invited me into your home. 36 I was naked, and you gave me clothing. I was sick, and you cared for me. I was in prison, and you visited me.&#8217;

37 &#8220;Then these righteous ones will reply, &#8216;Lord, when did we ever see you hungry and feed you? Or thirsty and give you something to drink? 38 Or a stranger and show you hospitality? Or naked and give you clothing? 39 When did we ever see you sick or in prison and visit you?&#8217;

40 &#8220;And the King will say, &#8216;I tell you the truth, when you did it to one of the least of these my brothers and sisters,[c] you were doing it to me!&#8217;


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## AngieM2 (May 10, 2002)

I know Sonshine.
And this group still helps those that want to help themselves. 

Didn't you just see the thread NickieL had about the power. No one was down on her. We were all trying to help or give her ideas.


Sorry if this tough love being mentioned is not so much to your liking, if you chose not to come to this forum - you'll be missed. But this is Survival and Emergency PREP - we are talking about prepping.


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## elkhound (May 30, 2006)

i think its up to each of us to look at each situation as it comes to help or not to help.sometimes it will work out sometimes not.i have had both in my past.


but when you see a man digging a field by hand as i roll by on tractor with my 4foot tiller on it.i know i am sappose to stop and ask to till it for him and ask for nothing in return.

but when i offer to till somebody a garden cause i know they had no job and they said no.then ask me to put out extra green beans for them....then no i aint helpin...plain and simple.

i have had 2 people come for free food from garden when offered it.one picked a few minutes said it was hot and left.the other brought buckets and picked till they was full.i picked what i wanted then jumped in with them to fill all their buckets.


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## Sonshine (Jul 27, 2007)

AngieM2 said:


> I know Sonshine.
> And this group still helps those that want to help themselves.
> 
> Didn't you just see the thread NickieL had about the power. No one was down on her. We were all trying to help or give her ideas.
> ...


Sorry Angie, but in this thread it doesn't seem that way. I never once said to just give to those who won't do for themselves. I post one scripture and am told a story about a con man that uses scriptures. I very seldom post scriptures and I don't believe I was the first one in this thread to do so, so for you to single me out gives me the impression you would rather I not be here.


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## AngieM2 (May 10, 2002)

You were the last one to do so. 

And No, I am not asking for you to leave.


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## katydidagain (Jun 11, 2004)

Sonshine said:


> I don't believe I was the only one using scriptures. But that's ok. I'll leave. God bless you and yours. This crowd seems to have lost a lot of what I liked about it. Teaching one another to prep and giving encouragement to those who have been hit with unexpected tragedies. Seems everyone has completely missed my point. I never said that people shouldn't prep, but that no one can prep for every eventuality. So everyone here can ignore those who lose everything. I can't. Oh, BTW, this was the verse I meant to post:
> 
> Matthew 25: 34 âThen the King will say to those on his right, âCome, you who are blessed by my Father, inherit the Kingdom prepared for you from the creation of the world. 35 For I was hungry, and you fed me. I was thirsty, and you gave me a drink. I was a stranger, and you invited me into your home. 36 I was naked, and you gave me clothing. I was sick, and you cared for me. I was in prison, and you visited me.â
> 
> ...


Don't leave; I started it. Sorry. Secret? I went to BJU for 7th and 8th grade so I can quote up a storm. But I've held onto very little except that people should not judge others.


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## elkhound (May 30, 2006)

dont go sonshine....


i would like to hear how you think your scripture and the dont feed a man that wont work scripture are sappose to be followed. this is not arguing..its talking and learning and getting others perspectives on such.


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## Sonshine (Jul 27, 2007)

elkhound said:


> dont go sonshine....
> 
> 
> i would like to hear how you think your scripture and the dont feed a man that wont work scripture are sappose to be followed. this is not arguing..its talking and learning and getting others perspectives on such.


You are right, the Bible tells us not to feed a man that won't work. BUT, not everyone that finds themselves in a bad situation is there because they didn't work. And yes, some find themselves in those situations through mistakes they have made in life. I know, I have been in situations, some I brought on myself and ended up living in my car and others I had no control over, a house fire. I was not lazy. I didn't prep at the time, but I was young and really didn't understand what I do today. To just not help a person because we may think we know the situation, IMO is what the scripture I posted is about. If I had the means to help another without harming my family, I would try to help them. I believe Jesus expects us to give a hand up, not a hand out. This is all I was trying to say. If people disagree with that, that's their perogative. However, having been in the situations I have been in and believing God expects us to help others, this is what I believe.


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## unregistered65598 (Oct 4, 2010)

Sonshine said:


> Can you tell me one place in the United States that you aren't in danger of a single natural disaster? I haven't found one yet. Things happen. There is no way to be prepared for every eventuality. For instance, you say at home you are prepared with food and water, ect. What happens if your house burns to the ground? What happens when you are experiencing a long term drought and the forests around you catch fire?


Well, I can not think of a single place that is not in danger of a natural disaster. I can only say that we should prepare for the ones most common to each individual circumstance. If my house burnt to the ground then I am already physically and emotionally prepared for that. I do what I have to do. I have lived a tough road and am a stronger person for it. As for drought, well we were on the extreme drought list, everyone in town was complaining about how their garden failed this year, yet ours flourished. Fire? half the state of CO was on fire for awhile and yet we kept moving forward. I know bad things happen that you have no control over, but are you ready to stand and face the trials that will lie ahead of those???? I for one know I am.


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## Sonshine (Jul 27, 2007)

Merks said:


> Well, I can not think of a single place that is not in danger of a natural disaster. I can only say that we should prepare for the ones most common to each individual circumstance. If my house burnt to the ground then I am already physically and emotionally prepared for that. I do what I have to do. I have lived a tough road and am a stronger person for it. As for drought, well we were on the extreme drought list, everyone in town was complaining about how their garden failed this year, yet ours flourished. Fire? half the state of CO was on fire for awhile and yet we kept moving forward. I know bad things happen that you have no control over, but are you ready to stand and face the trials that will lie ahead of those???? I for one know I am.


You are prepared for those you are prepared for.  And I applaud you for it. I have already lived through some of the things I've mentioned, and like you, I am a stronger person for it. But, I don't kid myself into believing that I am prepared for every possible contingency. In cases like those we may be the ones that need a hand up.


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## unregistered65598 (Oct 4, 2010)

Sonshine said:


> You are prepared for those you are prepared for.  And I applaud you for it. I have already lived through some of the things I've mentioned, and like you, I am a stronger person for it. But, I don't kid myself into believing that I am prepared for every possible contingency. In cases like those we may be the ones that need a hand up.


And for those who have tried to be prepared for their circumstances and fall short because of unseen things and are willing to take a hand up not a hand out, I will be the first one in line to help. Even if it means kicking you in the shins so I get there first LOL  Sorry just wanted to lighten things up a tad.


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## katydidagain (Jun 11, 2004)

Sonshine said:


> You are right, the Bible tells us not to feed a man that won't work. BUT, not everyone that finds themselves in a bad situation is there because they didn't work. And yes, some find themselves in those situations through mistakes they have made in life. I know, I have been in situations, some I brought on myself and ended up living in my car and others I had no control over, a house fire. I was not lazy. I didn't prep at the time, but I was young and really didn't understand what I do today. To just not help a person because we may think we know the situation, IMO is what the scripture I posted is about. If I had the means to help another without harming my family, I would try to help them. I believe Jesus expects us to give a hand up, not a hand out. This is all I was trying to say. If people disagree with that, that's their perogative. However, having been in the situations I have been in and believing God expects us to help others, this is what I believe.


Big hugs. I agree. Except I don't believe we make mistakes in life--we make decisions based on the information/facts at hand at the time. Angie might not like me saying this but I firmly believe that every twisty turn in out paths is preordained so we're really not changing a thing when we "choose" but following what is meant to be--a lesson. If not to learn, why are we here?


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## Sonshine (Jul 27, 2007)

Maybe a good way to go forward is to think of situations that only have a slight possiblitiy of happening and figure out what we would do in those situations. For instance, take my own situation. Due to damaged nerves in my spine I have to spend a lot of time flat on my back. Fortunately DH has picked up a lot of the slack in our prepping. I still tend the garden and the animals when I'm able and I do a lot of research and studying. What are some ways to work around a physical disability? Or, another scenario would be you lost everything in a fire, or a flood. So, what are some scenarios you wish you knew how to be better prepared for?


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## unregistered65598 (Oct 4, 2010)

Sonshine said:


> Maybe a good way to go forward is to think of situations that only have a slight possibility of happening and figure out what we would do in those situations. For instance, take my own situation. Due to damaged nerves in my spine I have to spend a lot of time flat on my back. Fortunately DH has picked up a lot of the slack in our prepping. I still tend the garden and the animals when I'm able and I do a lot of research and studying. What are some ways to work around a physical disability? Or, another scenario would be you lost everything in a fire, or a flood. So, what are some scenarios you wish you knew how to be better prepared for?


For me I guess it would be the fear of trying something new and failing at it. My blog would be a great example. while trying to get over that fear i started it hoping to give others the courage to try something they never did before, think I made 1 real post about trying something knew and quit. I know I can adapt to anything when forced to, but getting myself to do it when there is;nt a need to is a whole other story.


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## Sonshine (Jul 27, 2007)

Merks said:


> For me I guess it would be the fear of trying something new and failing at it. My blog would be a great example. while trying to get over that fear i started it hoping to give others the courage to try something they never did before, think I made 1 real post about trying something knew and quit. I know I can adapt to anything when forced to, but getting myself to do it when there is;nt a need to is a whole other story.


This one would be hard for me to understand. I'm too dumb to be afraid of much.  Maybe try to figure out what it is that makes you afraid of it. That would give you a starting point. My fear is fire, but I'm better at dealing with it than I use to be. At least these days I don't freeze the first time I smell smoke.


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## Sonshine (Jul 27, 2007)

katydidagain said:


> Big hugs. I agree. Except I don't believe we make mistakes in life--we make decisions based on the information/facts at hand at the time. Angie might not like me saying this but I firmly believe that every twisty turn in out paths is preordained so we're really not changing a thing when we "choose" but following what is meant to be--a lesson. If not to learn, why are we here?


Not sure that we don't make mistakes in life. Some of us, like me, have the information, but due to immaturity decide we know better than others.  But I do agree that we should try to learn from our mistakes.


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## AngieM2 (May 10, 2002)

katydidagain said:


> Big hugs. I agree. Except I don't believe we make mistakes in life--we make decisions based on the information/facts at hand at the time. Angie might not like me saying this but I firmly believe that every twisty turn in out paths is preordained so we're really not changing a thing when we "choose" but following what is meant to be--a lesson. If not to learn, why are we here?


Katy - I sometimes wonder about the bad things that have happened and wonder if there is not a greater reason things happened. So, I sorta get what you mean.

(If I had not divorced, my youngest would have been a Sr at Columbine that day - but she was off on a mission trip instead - just a for instance).


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## Pink_Carnation (Apr 21, 2006)

I haven't been on much lately with work and getting ready for fall so I haven't seen many of the discussions. I tend to assume that people here are not referring to anyone else here when they talk about not being prepared. If you are here I figure you want to be prepared but may have some obstacles getting there. I do feel empathy for people who have their lives turned upside down by a disaster even if they did nothing to prepare or mitigate it. I don't want the job of deciding who is 'worthy' of it.

Well working around a physical disability is going to be about finding ways to do it differently.....like if you can't carry things maybe you get a cart. You might need to take more breaks or switch around what you are doing.


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## Astrid (Nov 13, 2010)

nostawmama said:


> katydidagain- remember there are things that you could do to prepare for emergencies that don't cost money. my family is currently in a very tough financial situation as well and some preps are on hold but finding knowledge is frequently free.
> 
> Things such as angie paying attention to her surroundings and weather because she is in a vulnerable situation doesn't cost anything but goes a long way in keeping prepared.
> 
> I have a lack of empathy/compassion for the people that make stupid decisions because they don't pay attention or because they stick there head in their..i mean in the mud and don't do anything!


A number of years ago I left a very bad situation and moved to a place I could afford. It was not fun and I had no money but I gleaned apples and canned everything I could get my hands on including deer and moose carcasses my neighbor gave me when he felt sorry for me. I also raised rabbits and cull pigs just so I could have meat. If people want to be self sufficient they can. People just need to be creative and look for ways to make it work.


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## Sourdough (Dec 28, 2011)

Sonshine said:


> So, what are some scenarios you wish you knew how to be better prepared for?


Horror beyond comprehension. Millions of Americans starving to death. Maybe forty to ninety million just in America, 1.9 Billion worldwide.


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## Sonshine (Jul 27, 2007)

Sourdough said:


> Horror beyond comprehension. Millions of Americans starving to death. Maybe forty to ninety million just in America, 1.9 Billion worldwide.


In cases like that the first thing to do it take care of your family. It would be hard for me to turn away someone who was starving, but if it meant my son starving, I would. In a scenario like this, I think we should try to educate as many people as we can. I would give seeds or a hen and rooster if I had them to spare to help someone else get started. But there is no way any of us could do much in this situation.


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## texican (Oct 4, 2003)

No place is safe... but one must prep for where they're living. I prep for what might happen. If the might does happen, I'll have higher chance of surviving the might, than one that hasn't prepared. It's true, no matter how well one preps, a Black Swan can always come along and devour everything... 

My Black Swan was fire last year... at the first sniff of smoke, the next day I rectified that, to the best of my ability (acquiring an extra trash pump to irrigate the area in case a fire swept thru). Filled the tractor with diesel and had the 'blade' on the back, to put out brush fire...

Tornadoes are a wild card. In 94, straight line winds came through and knocked ancient oaks down all around me. New house will have storm cellar functions...


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## Sonshine (Jul 27, 2007)

texican said:


> No place is safe... but one must prep for where they're living. I prep for what might happen. If the might does happen, I'll have higher chance of surviving the might, than one that hasn't prepared. It's true, no matter how well one preps, a Black Swan can always come along and devour everything...
> 
> My Black Swan was fire last year... at the first sniff of smoke, the next day I rectified that, to the best of my ability (acquiring an extra trash pump to irrigate the area in case a fire swept thru). Filled the tractor with diesel and had the 'blade' on the back, to put out brush fire...
> 
> Tornadoes are a wild card. In 94, straight line winds came through and knocked ancient oaks down all around me. New house will have storm cellar functions...


My whole outlook on prepping is to prep for what I can and leave the rest in God's hands.


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## Sourdough (Dec 28, 2011)

Sonshine said:


> In a scenario like this, I think we should try to educate as many people as we can.


And do it NOW not after TSHTF.

I have so many friends who worship the size of their 401K account, and think me their crazy survival friend. I tell them, "You give me 10% of your 401K account now and I will give you 10% of my food when you need it. They just laugh & laugh. I giggle with them.


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## AngieM2 (May 10, 2002)

Yes it has to be started/done now cause later may be too late. But we do not know how much later, is later.

And I'm not sure that 401K of sourdough's friend is all that stable with the discussion of taking them into the government semi-control or something like that - discussions I've seen, but I don't know all the details tonight. But I do know I am not sure what is mine in the 401K will be there - others need to not just rely on a 401K for later - it makes current educated viewpoints that it is "the" thing to have for the future; I hope it will still be there.


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## anette (Jun 20, 2008)

nevermind...


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## Sonshine (Jul 27, 2007)

Sourdough said:


> And do it NOW not after TSHTF.
> 
> I have so many friends who worship the size of their 401K account, and think me their crazy survival friend. I tell them, "You give me 10% of your 401K account now and I will give you 10% of my food when you need it. They just laugh & laugh. I giggle with them.


I've been working on it. We have a few neighbors that have started raising gardens. Have a couple that now have goats and chickens. DH has some friends at work that are preppers. They always discuss how to handle different scenarios. They come at it from a military veiwpoint, since they're all security forces those discussions get pretty interesting. They also always call us when they find deals on certain items they know we would be interested in and we try to let them know. I also started my own forum as a way of trying to educate people. It's not large, but we have almost 250 members. Since I'm pretty much housebound most of the time now, the internet has become my way of learning and of sharing that knowledge with others.


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## Sonshine (Jul 27, 2007)

AngieM2 said:


> Yes it has to be started/done now cause later may be too late. But we do not know how much later, is later.
> 
> And I'm not sure that 401K of sourdough's friend is all that stable with the discussion of taking them into the government semi-control or something like that - discussions I've seen, but I don't know all the details tonight. But I do know I am not sure what is mine in the 401K will be there - others need to not just rely on a 401K for later - it makes current educated viewpoints that it is "the" thing to have for the future; I hope it will still be there.


I don't think we have much time left. In fact, I believe many will be surprised at just how quickly things are going to fall apart.


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## Wendy (May 10, 2002)

> I doubt though that anyone would be happy or gloat over the misfortune of others.


I don't know, I have seen some people that would be happy in the fact that they are prepared & would be more than happy to watch the unprepared suffer. 

I had a friend ask me if I was one of those "crazy preppers". I have several family members that would be in bad shape. I would help them if I could, but not without them putting in some time & effort to the cause. No one would get a free ride here, but I would try to help those I could.


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## lathermaker (May 7, 2010)

texican said:


> I strike up conversations with total strangers, telling them they should start preparing for hard times... their standard comeback, they can't afford it, with the kids sports, the alcohol bills, the tobacco bills, the eating out bills, the new car/new truck/new bass boat bills, etc. My sympathy meter (like a tightwad mean old sonofabiscuit eater) drops to zero when they tell me these things.
> 
> I reckon part of my standard spiel on how to get ahead in life is to drop alcohol, tobacco, drugs of all makes, and all entertainment (that costs money... reading books and watching dvd's from the library are Free!). Whey folks resist austerity, I automatically write them off my list of possible people worth saving.
> 
> Work hard, save everything, scrounge whenever possible. Get ready for the dark days now, or die. Very simple in theory, difficult to follow in practice... the Siren Calls of luxury smash many a good ship...


Texican: I like the way you think! I'm sick & tired of hearing people say that they can't afford to be more prepared while sitting in their grocery cart is a couple 12 packs & a carton of cigarettes......


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## KimTN (Jan 16, 2007)

In my circle, it is that the people just won't get prepared. I don't know any of them that couldn't. I try talking to my friends about putting something back. But it is just flat refusals. I have to take in my family, but I just can't take in people who flatly refuse to do anything. I would not gloat as most of my friends starved, but I just wouldn't be very helpful either. Why should I try to help people who had the means, but just flatly refuse to help themselves? I've already apologized to my friends ahead of time for having to turn them down when they are up the creek. They think that nothing will ever happen. They also tell me that I am totally heartless if I let them starve. I don't think that I'm that way at all. After all, I told them already. If you won't save yourself, why should I?


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## Laura Zone 5 (Jan 13, 2010)

I find this thread fascinating.

Sympathy, empathy, mercy.....those are things I struggle with. I personally have a 'justice' issue. (insert childhood) Being raised in a home where there was NO mercy for mistakes, but punishment and 'justice', it is the one area I really struggle.

I have a friend (yeah, one I don't have to pay!! ha ha) her son is about 4 years younger than mine. My son's senior year, her boy was a freshman and they played on the same team. Now they work out, do the Habitat thing together, and my boy goes to his practices and helps out. Anyway, you know how boys/young men talk about "the zombie apocolypse'.....
She knows I can, and she is interested in learning to grow a garden (taking the master gardeners course) and learning to can herself.
She always says "I know when this zombie thing hits, I will be at Laura's house, she has all the food".......
At that point, I don't even know what to say.

((I am kind of hap hazard in my prepping / stocking up. Life seems to keep getting in the way, and derailing my focus. 
Just when I think I am ready to sit down and get organized and serious? WHAM another derail.
In my perfect world, my dh would be the strong leader type that would have a well thought out / drawn out plan that I would be able to follow and execute. 
He would keep me (or at least help keep me) focused, and on track!!))

On one hand I would like to say "sorry about cha, fool you should have prepped" (insert 10 virgins and their lamps parable) and then on the other hand I would feel deeply compelled to help (insert oil jar and flour sack never ran out) others.....but my severe lack of trust in others would keep me on edge.....
It's a situation that I don't want to think about, but must, so that I am prepared for whatever happens.

I really appreciate SE&P. I don't post often, but read and glean A LOT. Thank you all who share their lives and experiences with me!


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## cvk (Oct 30, 2006)

The sad part is the forgotten people that have been born and raised in the cities or populated areas and have never known any other lives. No grandma and grandpas farm etc. They know nothing about the very things that keep them alive. I have never seen any creature on this earth so far removed from the very necessary survival items and techniques that have survived this long in total ignorance while a small percentage of people provide what is needed. Also I have been paying attention to the news etc. lately. There is little or nothing to alert them to any dangers in their lives short of being shot in a super market or some such thing. It is like they live in a different universe than those of us here on this board. I don't blame them for not prepping because they have no reason to believe that they need to prep. I also don't intend to feed them but I can feel sad that they are so far removed from being able to provide for their own needs. Even sadder is the fact that they have no reason to think that they need to change anything in their lives. Talk about living in the DARK!


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## Forerunner (Mar 23, 2007)

Possum Belly caught my error. 

GOD closed the door of the Ark.

There is a lesson to be had there, as well.

If we who seek both to experience and afford others mercy will only do our part, Father will open and close the doors that we may be unsure of.


One day, long ago, when my eldest son (about 4-5 at the time) and I were out removing dead trees from local yet remote roadsides, I was given one of the greatest epiphanies I've ever received. I was going through some pretty tough and uncertain times, and had some rather large dragons to face.

I had dropped a dead elm in the road and had it bucked into firewood lengths, ranging from wrist size to a foot or so across. I told Caleb to load them into the truck while I went and started working on another downed tree a few yards away. 
After a few minutes, I returned to see Caleb struggling with one of the bigger pieces, he having the rest loaded and stacked already. He offered that the rest of them might be too big for him to load. 

I replied, "Son, you've done a good job. You just load the ones that you can get, and I'll take care of the rest."

Just as the last word escaped me, it hit me as with a plank that I had just been given my marching orders for the rest of my life.


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## Terri in WV (May 10, 2002)

cvk said:


> The sad part is the forgotten people that have been born and raised in the cities or populated areas and have never known any other lives. No grandma and grandpas farm etc. They know nothing about the very things that keep them alive.


Sadly, it's not just in the cities. My 12yo ds came home from school and was telling me about his day this past week. He was so happy because he was the only one in class that knew the answer. The question-what is yeast?

We live in a very rural, Mayberry kind of area and it surprises me that more kids that age wouldn't know what yeast is and what its used for.


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## Callieslamb (Feb 27, 2007)

It takes wisdom allow people to fail. When we step in to fix everything we also remove the knowledge they gain from essential life-lessons needed for their (and our country's) future. I think we need more wise people with *compassion for the future *than the short-sighted people rushing in to fix everything today. Going hungry can be a good lesson to learn. Unfortunately, we have a system in place that removes consequences from the people. Those that want to take care of themselves will do so. Those that don't- won't. And there are plenty in the middle that can use our help. I do believe I am allowed to 'judge' the difference.


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## Wanderer0101 (Jul 18, 2007)

Callieslamb said:


> It takes wisdom allow people to fail. When we step in to fix everything we also remove the knowledge they gain from essential life-lessons needed for their (and our country's) future. I think we need more wise people with *compassion for the future *than the short-sighted people rushing in to fix everything today. Going hungry can be a good lesson to learn. Unfortunately, we have a system in place that removes consequences from the people. Those that want to take care of themselves will do so. Those that don't- won't. And there are plenty in the middle that can use our help. I do believe I am allowed to 'judge' the difference.


Truly great comment, kudos to you.


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## unregistered41671 (Dec 29, 2009)

Forerunner said:


> Why, that's almost blasphemy !
> 
> HT isn't just any old internet forum !


Very true, I like it here.


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## where I want to (Oct 28, 2008)

cvk said:


> No grandma and grandpas farm etc. They know nothing about the very things that keep them alive.


My parent's were such city folk that my mother was frightened of deer. I was raised thinking that self-sufficiency was the ability to sew your own curtains. My mom started a suburban garden one time- I think we got 2 cukes from it.
But the way-back farmer genes kicked in with me. I got my first house and immediately started a garden- and kept at it. I set my own fence, planted my own trees, learned to make jelly then learned to preserve food in general.
There were no "examples" for me- just the urge to do it. And the desire to have what I couldn't afford to buy.
The one thing both my parents gave to me was the idea I could do what I wanted. The "what" part of what I wanted was mine. My sisters both never took to the idea at all.
So don't waste time feeling sorry for those who have no example or early training. This is not quantum physics- information to learn is everywhere. People choose their own direction.


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## silverseeds (Apr 28, 2012)

Ive seen a few similar threads as this here and on other forums when this topic comes up. You know something I have yet to see though? Someone change their stance and ADMIT we just cant help everyone!!! Im relatively new here, but it seems like a fine crop of people to me, I bet we are a bit more generous overall then the general population. I see a bunch of thoughtful and caring attitudes. Yet to many we are cruel because we dont have super powers apparently? 

Even "harsher" things people say, like I help those who help themselves.... what else can we do!! If you havent noticed the ranks of preppers is growing, but we are still vastly out numbered. We cant prepare for everyone. Most of us have been around awhile and have learned you just cant live someone elses life. Helping those who help themselves so to speak, is about the best you can do. Most of us probably have a few we will help anyway, family, friends, but for the bulk? the best you can do is throw people a few life rafts,(usually free knowledge) and hope they grab on before the tide sweeps them away. 

If someone wants to give me several million dollars of food, buy me several thousand acres of improved land, (truck in basically the entire soil I expect to grow food in), quality hand tools, seed, I will make sure my local community never starves. I will gather up the locals and bring them to the ranch when it all falls. Actually you will need to dig me a huge well also, make it wind powered or solar. Might want to build a massive barn and a series of pens so I can raise goats, they are the most efficient animal to raise here. I will need several thousand acres of improved land established. I will go ahead and get the orchards going now. Surely everyone realizes this wont happen right? So why doesnt everyone realize those of us preparing for ourselves cant be expected to help everyone?


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## Sonshine (Jul 27, 2007)

Laura Zone 5 said:


> I find this thread fascinating.
> 
> Sympathy, empathy, mercy.....those are things I struggle with. I personally have a 'justice' issue. (insert childhood) Being raised in a home where there was NO mercy for mistakes, but punishment and 'justice', it is the one area I really struggle.
> 
> ...


This is where prayer comes in for believers. Pray for God's wisdom. I would hate to turn a person away that God has sent to me, but I wouldn't want to let someone in who is just there to cause problems.


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## Sonshine (Jul 27, 2007)

cvk said:


> The sad part is the forgotten people that have been born and raised in the cities or populated areas and have never known any other lives. No grandma and grandpas farm etc. They know nothing about the very things that keep them alive. I have never seen any creature on this earth so far removed from the very necessary survival items and techniques that have survived this long in total ignorance while a small percentage of people provide what is needed. Also I have been paying attention to the news etc. lately. There is little or nothing to alert them to any dangers in their lives short of being shot in a super market or some such thing. It is like they live in a different universe than those of us here on this board. I don't blame them for not prepping because they have no reason to believe that they need to prep. I also don't intend to feed them but I can feel sad that they are so far removed from being able to provide for their own needs. Even sadder is the fact that they have no reason to think that they need to change anything in their lives. Talk about living in the DARK!


IMO, most people DO know that things are falling apart. Whether they live in the city or the country. Maybe it's a mindset thing, but there are people who live in the cities that are aware of the need to prep and do the best they can under the circumstances. So I don't think it's a lack of knowing what's going on as much as people sticking their heads in the sand and refusing to acknowledge what their gut is telling them.


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## Common Tator (Feb 19, 2008)

Laura Zone 5 said:


> I have a friend (yeah, one I don't have to pay!! ha ha) her son is about 4 years younger than mine. My son's senior year, her boy was a freshman and they played on the same team. Now they work out, do the Habitat thing together, and my boy goes to his practices and helps out. Anyway, you know how boys/young men talk about "the zombie apocolypse'.....
> She knows I can, and she is interested in learning to grow a garden (taking the master gardeners course) and learning to can herself.
> She always says "I know when this zombie thing hits, I will be at Laura's house, she has all the food".......
> At that point, I don't even know what to say.


THIS is the time to sit her down and ask if she loves her own kids enough to prepare for them. Because you love your own son enough to prepare for him!

Look, the cat is already out of the bag. She knows you're a prepper. She just announced her intention to come and mooch the supplies that you have put aside for your family. So direct her to the S&EP forum. Tell her that you don't have enough to feed her family AND yours, and if you have to choose, you will feed YOUR family. But right now the stores are still open, and SHE needs to prep for her own family. Waiting until the event (whatever it is) happens, and there are no more supplies to be had is irresponsible, and it needs to be explained to her in those terms.

Never let someone say that they will show up at your door when times get bad. They are announcing that they CHOOSE to not be prepared.


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## Sonshine (Jul 27, 2007)

where I want to said:


> My parent's were such city folk that my mother was frightened of deer. I was raised thinking that self-sufficiency was the ability to sew your own curtains. My mom started a suburban garden one time- I think we got 2 cukes from it.
> But the way-back farmer genes kicked in with me. I got my first house and immediately started a garden- and kept at it. I set my own fence, planted my own trees, learned to make jelly then learned to preserve food in general.
> There were no "examples" for me- just the urge to do it. And the desire to have what I couldn't afford to buy.
> The one thing both my parents gave to me was the idea I could do what I wanted. The "what" part of what I wanted was mine. My sisters both never took to the idea at all.
> So don't waste time feeling sorry for those who have no example or early training. This is not quantum physics- information to learn is everywhere. People choose their own direction.


My first garden was all put in with a shovel and a hoe. I would get off work and started digging, I didn't have a clue what I was doing, but by the time I was done we had vegetables to eat. Not enough to can, even if I knew how to can at the time. We lived in a trailor park in Weatherford, TX. My back yard was dry and barren.


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## mekasmom (Jan 19, 2010)

Forerunner said:


> Noah was eventually instructed to close the ark doors.


Noah did not close the doors. God did. Read it. God closes the doors of eternity, man does not. We have no right to determine when mercy and longsuffering ends.

It is right and good for people to work, to provide for themselves, to be like the Ant. But the point is, that we each need to be aware of our own attitude. We cannot look down on others and think of them as "worthless of life" if they fail to do that. The arrogant, "let them eat cake" attitude is just not right. Don't get me wrong, the fact that some people refuse to work or to put aside is wrong too. But that is their sin. My sin would be to look at them like they have no value and deserve to die. And I don't want that arrogant, proud look to be part of the attitude of my heart. I don't want to grieve the Holy Spirit.


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## Sourdough (Dec 28, 2011)

mekasmom said:


> Noah did not close the doors. God did. Read it. God closes the doors of eternity, man does not. We have no right to determine when mercy and longsuffering ends.
> 
> It is right and good for people to work, to provide for themselves, to be like the Ant. But the point is, that we each need to be aware of our own attitude. We cannot look down on others and think of them as "worthless of life" if they fail to do that. The arrogant, "let them eat cake" attitude is just not right. Don't get me wrong, the fact that some people refuse to work or to put aside is wrong too. But that is their sin. My sin would be to look at them like they have no value and deserve to die. And I don't want that arrogant, proud look to be part of the attitude of my heart. I don't want to grieve the Holy Spirit.


Would your feelings shift, if your family was over run, the men killed and BBQ.
The women tied up for sex slaves, and the younger children butchered for stew. It very easy to have some feelings when safe in an artificial economic climate.

I suspect the young ladies that were taken to "Rape'rooms" in Iraq would not be so openhearted. Google "Rape Rooms" if you want to see the lawless side of life. We live in an artificial and very temporary secure reality.


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## where I want to (Oct 28, 2008)

I guess that the difference between the warm,fuzzy feeling I get when I choose to help someone and the fear that occurs when someone seems to feel they have a right to what I have is that a person who puts a sizable effort into taking care of themselves will understand the effort I have into my own resources, while a person is "exercising their rights" sees only what they want which is never ending and dismisses the cost to me because everything they get is apparently free and effortless.


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## Melissa (Apr 15, 2002)

Forerunner said:


> Possum Belly caught my error.
> 
> GOD closed the door of the Ark.
> 
> ...


Awesome~


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## Sonshine (Jul 27, 2007)

where I want to said:


> I guess that the difference between the warm,fuzzy feeling I get when I choose to help someone and the fear that occurs when someone seems to feel they have a right to what I have is that a person who puts a sizable effort into taking care of themselves will understand the effort I have into my own resources, while a person is "exercising their rights" sees only what they want which is never ending and dismisses the cost to me because everything they get is apparently free and effortless.


I agree. I don't recommend giving or opening your doors to just anyone. People have to use common sense. I wouldn't take in anyone who could work, but wouldn't. I wouldn't take in anyone who appeared to be a trouble maker. BUT, if possible, I would take in people.


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## Sourdough (Dec 28, 2011)

Sonshine said:


> I wouldn't take in anyone who appeared to be a trouble maker. BUT, if possible, I would take in people.


How would you know......really. They send their decoy 14 y/o girl in with torn clothing, crying "Help Me, Help me, please help they are raping us. How will you know......the way they are dressed...?? Maybe they just shot a cop and are wearing his uniform, how will you know, your families life depends on the correct choice.


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## terri9630 (Mar 12, 2012)

Sonshine said:


> In cases like that the first thing to do it take care of your family. It would be hard for me to turn away someone who was starving, but if it meant my son starving, I would. In a scenario like this, I think we should try to educate as many people as we can. I would give seeds or a hen and rooster if I had them to spare to help someone else get started. But there is no way any of us could do much in this situation.


Unfortunately from my personal experience, the hen and rooster would be eaten today and tomorrow. The seeds thrown away as trash. 

For example, the lady across the street has lupis and croans disease. She was in and out of the hospital for a few months last year so to help them out we gave them 6 chickens and a turkey out of our freezer along with a few dozen eggs and some veggie seeds for their garden. They had a BBQ the next weekend, invited most of the block, and supplied all the food. They cooked all 6 chickens AND the turkey. We gave them the birds because they were struggling to make ends meet and wanted to help out. The seeds have yet to be planted but they have lots of lovely petunias and geraniums. Veggie flowers aren't pretty.

Since then we have had several notes stuck to our gate asking for eggs. Not just from the across the street neighbor's, but from others because they were told that we were giving them away. I put up a "eggs for sale $4 a dozen" sign and no one has come back. 

Oh, we weren't invited to the BBQ. Neither were any of the other families that hunt or garden. They have managed to turn this "neighborhood" into an US and THEM and I am surrounded by them.......


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## terri9630 (Mar 12, 2012)

Wow. I spent 5 min typing a post and a whole page of posts happened!


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## shannsmom (Jul 28, 2009)

terri, that is incredibly sad (the story, not the postings!). Now you know, though, that when food prices soar and times get harder, that you cannot turn your back on these people and will need to guard what you have. At least you also know that you gave of your own free will once and were incredibly kind, and can be proud of that. Utterly amazing, the gall of some people!


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## terri9630 (Mar 12, 2012)

shannsmom said:


> terri, that is incredibly sad (the story, not the postings!). Now you know, though, that when food prices soar and times get harder, that you cannot turn your back on these people and will need to guard what you have. At least you also know that you gave of your own free will once and were incredibly kind, and can be proud of that. Utterly amazing, the gall of some people!


We tried.


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## unregistered41671 (Dec 29, 2009)

terri9630 said:


> They have managed to turn this "neighborhood" into an US and THEM


Seems like the entire USA is headed in that direction.


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## Sourdough (Dec 28, 2011)

This is a to the point post on "Urban Survival Skills" Blog.

"Roger your comments on the US and THEM. I just had this conversation with a couple regarding the fact that in a collapse your neighbors and even friends will turn against you if it means their survival. That is the danger of exposing your survival preparatory lifestyle to the &#8220;Ostrich Heads&#8221; who think nothing will happen, hence no need to plan or prep.....................Many branches for planning here. What if you engage a group of armed thugs, kill several but some get away. Did you just teach them to go someplace else? Did you just create a group now solely focused on you? What do they now know of your defenses and response?" 


SOURCE: Urban Survival Skills: More Comments on Threat Groups


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## meanwhile (Dec 13, 2007)

What happened to the ten virgins? I never heard that story?

I know about the grasshoppers but ...what is the story about the ten virgins?


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## Sourdough (Dec 28, 2011)

meanwhile said:


> What happened to the ten virgins? I never heard that story?
> 
> I know about the grasshoppers but ...what is the story about the ten virgins?


They stopped by my cabin one weekend, and ......well never mind.


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## Work horse (Apr 7, 2012)

meanwhile said:


> What happened to the ten virgins? I never heard that story?
> 
> I know about the grasshoppers but ...what is the story about the ten virgins?


I was just going to ask the same thing. Never heard of that -- can someone help me out?

As far as helping other people in a shtf situation, I would hope to be able to help people who can assist me in ways that I am not prepped for-- particularly firearm/hunting skills/protection.


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## Callieslamb (Feb 27, 2007)

meanwhile said:


> What happened to the ten virgins? I never heard that story?
> 
> I know about the grasshoppers but ...what is the story about the ten virgins?


10 virgins are invited to a wedding. They each have a lamp. The bridegroom delays his coming. 5 have extra oil. 5 do not. When the 5 run out, they ask the other 5 to share. The 5 prepared say nope. Go buy your own. If we give you some of ours, we won't have enough. The 5 prepared go to the wedding. While the other 5 are out buying more oil, the door to the wedding is shut. Matthew 24 or 25 in the New Testament. 

I respect all that want to keep God's law and do as He would have you do. However, there are stories to cover both in the Bible- the door is shut and we are told to help all. We are told that if we don't provide for our own, we are an infidel. We are told to give of our last meal. So to me, this kind of shows that we have to look at the situation as it arises. This is why, for us, we cannot determine ahead of time what we will do exactly. 

Sometimes, we might consider how many we are saving rather than how many we are turning away. For some, saving their family of 4 might be a tremendous feat. For others 12-30 isn't impossibly out of reach. It doesn't have to be either or and it doesn't have to be with or without compassion. I've said it many times, death isn't the worst that can happen. Perhaps some will choose to give it all away and starve. I'm not sure they would be wrong in my book. Quite sure it would not be required of all.


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## terri9630 (Mar 12, 2012)

I think we'll have lots of problems here if it comes down to it. We aren't rich by any means, but in our city we would be considered part of the "1%". We've gone out of our way to make sure our property fits in with all the others. Except for the horses our livestock and garden are out of sight unless you are actually walking the property. Last time I talked to the neighbor's I told them the freezer had died and we lost everything in it. They saw us selling some of the older chickens to cut back on feed. Hopefully they think were broke.


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## triple divide (Jan 7, 2010)

The parable Of the ten vigins as told in Mathew is symbolic.

The virgins are representative of the church.

The lamps are representative of the life of mankind.

The oil that fills and lights the lamp is representative of the Holy Spirit. 

The virgins that went out into the night without oil were unprepared to meet their bridegroom (Jesus Christ) and could not find him due to their own foolishness (were not filled with the Holy Spirit)

The parable begins in Mathew 25:1. The most important verse of the story is at the very end in Mathew 25:13: "watch therefore, for you know neither the day nor the hour in which the son of man is coming". 

It's an intimate and deeply serious bit of the New Testiment for Christians. In a way, its prepping of the soul for the believers of Jesus Christ. Nothing wrong with that, right?

SD, I'm just going to say it, I don't like you. Your comment was crass and common.


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## Sonshine (Jul 27, 2007)

Sourdough said:


> How would you know......really. They send their decoy 14 y/o girl in with torn clothing, crying "Help Me, Help me, please help they are raping us. How will you know......the way they are dressed...?? Maybe they just shot a cop and are wearing his uniform, how will you know, your families life depends on the correct choice.


I'm pretty good at discernment, but bottom line is, I put faith in God and will trust His promptings. That's like today, I help certain people that I don't know. I don't give to everyone, but there are times I feel led to help. There's no other way for me to explain it.


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## Sonshine (Jul 27, 2007)

terri9630 said:


> Unfortunately from my personal experience, the hen and rooster would be eaten today and tomorrow. The seeds thrown away as trash.
> 
> For example, the lady across the street has lupis and croans disease. She was in and out of the hospital for a few months last year so to help them out we gave them 6 chickens and a turkey out of our freezer along with a few dozen eggs and some veggie seeds for their garden. They had a BBQ the next weekend, invited most of the block, and supplied all the food. They cooked all 6 chickens AND the turkey. We gave them the birds because they were struggling to make ends meet and wanted to help out. The seeds have yet to be planted but they have lots of lovely petunias and geraniums. Veggie flowers aren't pretty.
> 
> ...


Well, I've already given seeds, chickens and even a couple of goats to people. They have been using them as intended.


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## Sourdough (Dec 28, 2011)

triple divide said:


> SD, I'm just going to say it, I don't like you. Your comment was crass and common.


No worries I knew how you felt about me long ago. No worries. I am crass and I am common, it is just my nature. However unlike many "Christians" I don't pretend to be what I am not. I don't spout the scriptures and then in the same breath judge my fellow man. Not liking me is your burden, and not mine. And I forgive you for you feelings towards me.


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## triple divide (Jan 7, 2010)

Hehe. There's no burden in not liking something. For example; I don't like Tatter Tots. I sleep perfectly fine at night.


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## elkhound (May 30, 2006)

there's a lot of crass and common stories in the bible that modern church folks dont want to hear too.....lies,deception,adultery,incest,murder...and thats from the good guys.


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## terri9630 (Mar 12, 2012)

Sonshine said:


> Well, I've already given seeds, chickens and even a couple of goats to people. They have been using them as intended.


I'm glad, but food is still available. Wait until times get harder. If the price of food and electricity go up much more I'm moving the rabbits into the sun room. The rooster is pretty territorial and the few neighbors who have come over are scared of him so I think they'll be ok, none of them have guns....


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## Forerunner (Mar 23, 2007)

There will be two types of do-gooders in the days to come, more or less.

There will be those who try to help everyone out of their own pride in doing so, and they will be consumed for it.

Then there will be those who give out of humility, drawing from the strength of the Father, and they will be able to divide the loaves and fishes.

Truly it will be a time of separating the sheep from the goats.


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## unregistered41671 (Dec 29, 2009)

Forerunner said:


> There will be two types of do-gooders in the days to come, more or less.
> 
> There will be those who try to help everyone out of their own pride in doing so, and they will be consumed for it.
> 
> ...


Amen, what a post!!!


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## Sourdough (Dec 28, 2011)

elkhound said:


> there's a lot of crass and common stories in the bible that modern church folks dont want to hear too.....lies,deception,adultery,incest,murder...and thats from the good guys.


Plus it has been rewritten several times, entire books have been deleted. I believe in God and I trust God, but I have little use for the Bible. My teaching come from the wilderness.

WILDERNESS CAN CHANGE A MAN
_____________________________

by 
Sourdough

The wilderness can change a man............ 
There is a real transformation that can metamorphose within a man who is alone in the wilderness. He can exit the wilderness fragile, very fragile, he is no longer sure where that which is himself ends and that which is not himself starts. 

Everything is kind of fuzzy, and has a softness about it, all things appear slightly blurred to the eye, like after one has been crying, and it can be hard to distinguish where one object stops and another object starts.

He feels weak and vulnerable, but centered. In fact he is stronger, but the feeling of weakness, and vulnerability comes from the loss of arrogance. 

There is a clarity about the perfection of everything. Sounds are crisper, colors are different, there are so many more (new) colors now.

He feels as if he is looking through things and through people, this is a very uncomfortable experience, he tries to focus, but he just looks through everything.

Part of him wants to go back to the way it was, before being alone in the wilderness. But he also enjoys the bliss of how it is now. He wants to weep for no reason, but for the perfection of everything.

He has change, and can not change back to that which he was before, being alone in the wilderness.

I know not of drugs, but being alone in the wilderness, for long periods will change your perception of the universe. The universe is the same, but you have shifted to a place where you can see, with new eyes, a new heart, and a new empathy for all life. You have been born a second time, and are a child of the wilderness.

There was a time long ago, that a man was encouraged to go into the wilderness alone for a extended period, so that he might find wisdom about life. Sad it is discouraged today. Welcome home....welcome home. Home from the wilderness, for he is free to return at any time to his true nature.

(Based on 6 months with no human contact winter of 1974 homesteading in the Clearwater country)


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## julieq (Oct 12, 2008)

Ten virgins aside, our family is mostly situated in city life situations. They don't have gardens, raise chickens or milk goats. They've been there for us through some tough times in the past though, and we certainly want to be there for them if needed in a future SHTF scenario. 

If they can get to us, we won't turn them away. Even if they're blind right now as to the perils our country is facing, it doesn't matter. We may have years of preparations as far as food and supplies for us, but if they head this way, maybe we'll have enough for a few months (or even just a few weeks). 

Since we're looking at Biblical scenarios during times of crisis, maybe God will just provide a miracle at that time and our oil and flour will never run out!


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## elkhound (May 30, 2006)

Sourdough said:


> Plus it has been rewritten several times, entire books have been deleted.


and many many words misinterpreted....and only tell the good side of a story and stop at the dark edge of them.


also notice leaders in bible went into the mtn or was in the wilderness to recieve messages from god alot of the time.


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## Forerunner (Mar 23, 2007)

Jesus spent 40 days and nights in the wilderness.......

Don't see many "followers" checking out for themselves what affect that might have on the soul.

That said, traipsing about in the wilderness for wilderness sake may or may not better a man.

By their fruits, ye shall know them.


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## triple divide (Jan 7, 2010)

Forerunner said:


> There will be two types of do-gooders in the days to come, more or less.
> 
> There will be those who try to help everyone out of their own pride in doing so, and they will be consumed for it.
> 
> ...


Yep. Right on the money. Thanks for your post.


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## Sourdough (Dec 28, 2011)

triple divide said:


> Hehe. There's no burden in not liking something. For example; I don't like Tatter Tots. I sleep perfectly fine at night.


See, I love Tatter Tots.


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## elkhound (May 30, 2006)

yall wrote tater tots..my brain read tattler lids....lol...i thought i dont want none of them after seeing that jar blow up on lady in preserving harvest forum....lol

her arm looked awful


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## triple divide (Jan 7, 2010)

Sourdough said:


> See, I love Tatter Tots.


Haha! Now that was a good one. BTW, just because a person doesn't like another doesn't mean disrespect. There's a difference. Opposite though we may be from one another, life always has a way of showing we're not that dissimilar in a lot of ways. 

I wish you well.


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## Sourdough (Dec 28, 2011)

triple divide said:


> Haha! Now that was a good one. BTW, just because a person doesn't like another doesn't mean disrespect. There's a difference. Opposite though we may be from one another, life always has a way of showing we're not that dissimilar in a lot of ways.
> 
> I wish you well.



If your ever in my area I would love to meet you, I get along well with people who think differently than me. I even have a neighbor who shot at me twice, he is a awful shot.


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## Terri (May 10, 2002)

Laura Zone 5 said:


> She always says "I know when this zombie thing hits, I will be at Laura's house, she has all the food".......
> At that point, I don't even know what to say.


Actually, it is likely a joke. 

However, if it hits the fan you do not want her to try to make it reality, so I would say "No, it is for my children". Actually, that line was given to me by a cashier who realized that I was prepping: After she made that "joke" of "I am coming to your house" she said "I know, I know, it's for your children"!


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## Sourdough (Dec 28, 2011)

Terri said:


> Actually, it is likely a joke.
> 
> However, if it hits the fan you do not want her to try to make it reality, so I would say "No, it is for my children". Actually, that line was given to me by a cashier who realized that I was prepping: After she made that "joke" of "I am coming to your house" she said "I know, I know, it's for your children"!


I just say, "Show up anytime, We always need fresh meat".


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## triple divide (Jan 7, 2010)

Sourdough said:


> If your ever in my area I would love to meet you, I get along well with people who think differently than me. I even have a neighbor who shot at me twice, he is a awful shot.


I'm a lot better shot than most. ;-)


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## Sourdough (Dec 28, 2011)

triple divide said:


> I'm a lot better shot than most. ;-)


Most Marines are, it is their job.


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## Laura (May 10, 2002)

When I read the Bible, the book is all about disaster planning and being prepared. No need to cherry pick. I don't get the "God's gonna rapture us out before thing's get tough" doctrines, or the Christians who believe that prepping shows a lack of faith (in their doctrine). Amazingly, their faith expectations are they can mooch the fruits of my labor until He gets here if things get uncomfortable. It DOES get uncomfortable when I point out that's transference of their faith from HIM (or their doctrine) to ME.

As far as I'm concerned, these people had fair warning from the prophets for decades. They are able-bodied, have property and resources. They squandered what they had. They chose the ear tickling feel good prosperity message of the fakes. They can get in line with the heathens for their soup and Word of God at the Gospel Mission.

Since I became a divorced woman, I have gotten lean and mean. Some people are not happy with how mean I can be. I still help people, but I am done with takers. I have even run off family. No one from the churches have helped us and I have asked. I am trying to rebuild this farm and bring it back into production again. Very few people understand WHY it's important. 

I no longer discuss prepping, only family have seen the pantry. NOBODY knows the kid and I have lived out of the pantry and the freezer for 2 years. The pantry still holds lots of give-away food. They don't need to eat it all right now.


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## Sonshine (Jul 27, 2007)

elkhound said:


> there's a lot of crass and common stories in the bible that modern church folks dont want to hear too.....lies,deception,adultery,incest,murder...and thats from the good guys.


Yep, and most of that list David was guilty of, and he was known as a man after God's own heart.


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## Sonshine (Jul 27, 2007)

terri9630 said:


> I'm glad, but food is still available. Wait until times get harder. If the price of food and electricity go up much more I'm moving the rabbits into the sun room. The rooster is pretty territorial and the few neighbors who have come over are scared of him so I think they'll be ok, none of them have guns....


When times get harder, I know that some of my neighbors are already prepared.  I also happen to know a few in the neighborhood that are military vets, and preppers. I think we'll be about as safe as we can possibly be. I am not saying there won't be some to try to take what we may have, but I also know that there's many that will work together to protect what we have.


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## Sonshine (Jul 27, 2007)

Sourdough said:


> Plus it has been rewritten several times, entire books have been deleted. I believe in God and I trust God, but I have little use for the Bible. My teaching come from the wilderness.
> 
> WILDERNESS CAN CHANGE A MAN
> _____________________________
> ...


There are many kinds of wildernesses, and each one will change a person.


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## Sonshine (Jul 27, 2007)

elkhound said:


> yall wrote tater tots..my brain read tattler lids....lol...i thought i dont want none of them after seeing that jar blow up on lady in preserving harvest forum....lol
> 
> her arm looked awful


I love my tattler lids, and I read tattler too. I think it was the extra "t" in tater.


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## Laura Zone 5 (Jan 13, 2010)

meanwhile said:


> What happened to the ten virgins? I never heard that story?
> 
> I know about the grasshoppers but ...what is the story about the ten virgins?


*Matthew 25 1-13*

âAt that time the kingdom of heaven will be like ten virgins who took their lamps and went out to meet the bridegroom.
2 Five of them were foolish and five were wise
3 The foolish ones took their lamps but did not take any oil with them. 
4 The wise, however, took oil in jars along with their lamps. 
5 The bridegroom was a long time in coming, and they all became drowsy and fell asleep. 6 âAt midnight the cry rang out: âHereâs the bridegroom! Come out to meet him!â
7 âThen all the virgins woke up and trimmed their lamps. 

8 The foolish ones said to the wise, âGive us some of your oil; our lamps are going out.â
9 ââNo,â they replied, âthere may not be enough for both us and you. Instead, go to those who sell oil and buy some for yourselves.â
10 âBut while they were on their way to buy the oil, the bridegroom arrived. The virgins who were ready went in with him to the wedding banquet. And the door was shut.
11 âLater the others also came. âSir! Sir!â they said. âOpen the door for us!â
12 âBut he replied, âI tell you the truth, I donât know you.'
13 âTherefore keep watch, because you do not know the day or the hour.


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## MikeG49 (Aug 22, 2012)

One aspect of preping for SHTF that I think is consistantly overlooked is that there is strength in numbers. People talk about turning away unprepared people, but I think I would take in most people as long as I already know them, or they have something they can offer. No matter how well supplied and armed you may be you would be an easy target for someone who is desperate and has more people than you. I know feeding more people makes things harder, but you will also have more people to do the labor.

Another thing that I beleive is often overlooked is skills. I'm all for canning and having some food set aside, but that food will be gone before you know it. By skills I don't mean traditional gardening or preserving or even hunting, although they will undoubtedly help. I mean identifying edible and poisonous plants in your area so when you do run out of food you can go pick a salad in the woods. Also not just hunting, but harvesting game in a more primitive way to preserve ammo. Arrows are re-usable so archery is a must. Knowing how to snare game is also huge, and all it takes is a length of wire.


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## KimTN (Jan 16, 2007)

Yes, you do need to form a group of people. You can't do it alone. But, you must be picky about the people you take in. Can they fight? Can they help procure food? Can they be counted on to add valuable talent to the group? Or, are they going to sit on their duffs, waiting for you to protect them and keep them fed? A large group of useless people are going to weigh you down, not help you succeed. 

Now I know that some think that the above comments are being proud and judgmental of Your fellow human being, but I'm just being practical here. Your survival will depend on your group being able to fend off attacks and obtaining enough food for the group. It is a pipe dream to think that you can take in a group of people who will not contribute to your survival and you will some how squeak by. 

I have a huge problem in the fact that my best friend in the whole world thinks that Jesus is going to come get here before the SHTF or that she is going to retain all her high morels and give out all the food that she can lay her hands on so that she can gain a place at the side of god. If she actually thinks this way when the SHTF, I am going to have to cut her loose to save my own family. She will clearly be a danger to my group. I will be very sad, but I will cut her loose.


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## nostawmama (Dec 29, 2011)

Mike- very good point regarding forming a group. It is not something that is mentioned very frequently here but I don't think that is overlooked. I feel that there are some that have a group of already trusted individuals, some that don't have any possibility of forming a group so they prepare for themselves the best they can, and some that do believe they are better of on there own. It seems most people here that are going to turn folks away are referring to those they know are going to be dead weight- the ones that just say "I don't need to do anything because you already have enough for me too." Or the ones that didn't say that but they just make the assumption that somebody is going to have more than they need and will be willing to give something for nothing. The majority here know that there will be a very limited number of people that have enough knowledge to off-set the cost of upkeep for that person (even if they assist).


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## Common Tator (Feb 19, 2008)

I'm amazed with the folks that say they can feed everyone who comes along hungry. How much money do you have to put extra food aside? How much storage space does it take to store food for an indefinite number of people? Even restaurants can't go far without a big rig full of food showing up every few days.


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## Melissa (Apr 15, 2002)

I think you can have compassion for people in dire straights while realizing that you can't save everyone... It takes a pretty cold-hearted person not to care that others are suffering.


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## meanwhile (Dec 13, 2007)

Oh dear - triple divide:
If I worded my question about the parable of the Virgins poorly I am truly sorry. I did not mean to be crass nor rude. I am sorry it offended if I was the one the comment was directed to. I cannot tell if you meant I had offended or someone else. If it was me, then I am sorry.

Our family had an odd phone call this weekend asking for help. The man who repairs our chains saws, weed whackers, mower called and said he wanted to "borrow" "$35.00" from my older son. He claimed he needed gas money to visit his Dad in the hospital. The odd thing (well one odd thing, the whole thing was odd) about the call was that we have not seen this man in two months! He lives 50 minutes from our place. I told him my son was at work and we would call back. Then, I placed a quick call to another neighbor who knows the man better. That man also had such a call but he had loaned the man $30.00 the week before. Now, it seems the fellow has a drug problem and is using the money for drugs.

I think we all must be prepared and part of preparation is knowing when the call comes asking or help, ask questions and be sure where our efforts might be going. My neighbor is now out of $30.00 and he knows he won't get it back. It is sad but I think it is important to know when to say "No" and when to say "*NO*!" really loud.

PS: 
Have a nice week everyone. I saw serious bickering on another thread and I sure wish everyone can get along better. HT is so helpful and it is annoying to see people fuss and sad too. Lets have a good week.


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## elkhound (May 30, 2006)

how does one give things away knowing adults kids and grand kids might/will need it.

where do you draw the line.....if i helped and then 6 months later my garden failed and my family was hungry...would they not look at me as a fool and question my judgment on everything.

i have no wife or kids so my giving would have a bit of less impact.than say a family of 5 or 6 or more.i could scrape together a meal for one easier from the wilds than an entire family if it came down to it in a do or die situation.

moms and dads in my mind already have the people they are to help out in life lined up before them...their kids,grandkids etc.like forerunner said to his son do what ya can and i will get the rest.


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## AngieM2 (May 10, 2002)

I still don't think this is about those that try and cannot prepare more, it is about those that have been told, acknowledge hearing and say "I'll come to your house" type of non-prepping people.

Most of us here will not be very inclined to help them as they live higher on the hog now, and don't put away necessities for later.

I have not seen one here say, a bad thing about those that try to help themselves be prepared for the worse = from job loss, house fire, medical problems, or SHTF totally.


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## Sourdough (Dec 28, 2011)

I feel that most of you are thinking of a horror that lasts a week or two, maybe even a month. I wish people would get wrapped around the idea that it may never return to "Normal". I think the ONLY safe place will be inside a military base. I understand that U.S. Congress has it's butt covered for food and safety. 
To me the goal will be to still be alive after the first four to six months. I do think that I shall be one of many that the Wolves pull down.


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## Mike in Ohio (Oct 29, 2002)

MikeG49 said:


> No matter how well supplied and armed you may be you would be an easy target for someone who is desperate and has more people than you.


Desperation + numbers != easy target. The fact that a well armed and disciplined force can defend (or attack) against larger numbers has been shown throughout history time and again. That is not to say they aren't exceptions that prove the rule. 

You go ahead and pick salad in the woods (and are likely to get picked off anyways assuming you don't starve to death). Do you think you are going to avoid those desperate crowds? and for how long? I'll trust to our location, our preps and the folks we have surrounded ourselves with. Preps aren't just canning or having weapons. It includes preparing the "battleground". I'll leave it at that.

I agree with sourdough that the folks who prepare for "normal" never returning are the ones least likely to be disappointed if S ever does HTF. 

The fact that folks look to take care of their own first does not mean a lack of empathy or compassion. If more folks prepared to take care of themselves for even a short while the effects of a SHTF would be mitigated quite a bit. But people don't. I can feel sorry for people but that doesn't mean that I should necessarily put my own at risk to help those who choose (and I truly believe that the majority of people make that choice) not to make even the most basic preps for their own survival if the SHTF.

Mike


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## Forerunner (Mar 23, 2007)

For what it's worth, I began to see far too many holes in the rapture theory, myself, some years ago.

I believe God's complacent and self-deluded children are the bulk of the problem, and I don't believe Father is in the business of protecting His own from the results of their OWN folly....... indeed, it has been strongly suggested otherwise, time and again, in the Scriptures.

Judgment day or no, there will be a grand reckoning coinciding with the rude awakening, for all.

Humility is the only weapon that I believe will "save" anyone in the upcoming.
All others may or may not be of much use, on a case-by-case basis.


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## Laura (May 10, 2002)

I am looking for one trustworthy, hardworking person with a clue to join me on my place, preferably a Marine or someone with that level of training and character. Pickens are Slim and I run a lot of people off after the first few conversations well before they enter the neighborhood. 

Nobody wants to work this hard. Farm AND have a trust relationship? BAH! Easier for them to stay in their Barcaloungers and have a relationship with the boobtube.


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## 7thswan (Nov 18, 2008)

I didn't read all of the posts. What I'd like to know-why is there more focus on expecting others to be compassionat and not enough on how a Parent would feel if they don't/can't provide for their Family. I would expect that would be so painful. Why are people willing to make excuses for themselves by pointing the finger at the preppers.


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## unregistered41671 (Dec 29, 2009)

7thswan said:


> I didn't read all of the posts. What I'd like to know-why is there more focus on expecting others to be compassionat and not enough on how a Parent would feel if they don't/can't provide for their Family. I would expect that would be so painful. Why are people willing to make excuses for themselves by pointing the finger at the preppers.


Here Here!!!!! Exactly


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## MJsLady (Aug 16, 2006)

My theory is, if you KNOW something is coming, like a hurricane, you should be responsible for yourself and do what you need to. You have days to prepare. So do it.

If it is something like a sudden fire or a tornado, there is no days before hand warning. You may have 30 minutes to prepare. Though if you live in areas prone to those things you should always be prepared.

Counting on other folks "compassion" to get you through after the fact is a bad choice. Folks will always let you down. Plus they will be busy taking care of their own.


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## texican (Oct 4, 2003)

MikeG49 said:


> One aspect of preping for SHTF that I think is consistantly overlooked is that there is strength in numbers. People talk about turning away unprepared people, but I think I would take in most people as long as I already know them, or they have something they can offer. No matter how well supplied and armed you may be you would be an easy target for someone who is desperate and has more people than you. I know feeding more people makes things harder, but you will also have more people to do the labor.
> 
> Another thing that I beleive is often overlooked is skills. I'm all for canning and having some food set aside, but that food will be gone before you know it. By skills I don't mean traditional gardening or preserving or even hunting, although they will undoubtedly help. I mean identifying edible and poisonous plants in your area so when you do run out of food you can go pick a salad in the woods. Also not just hunting, but harvesting game in a more primitive way to preserve ammo. Arrows are re-usable so archery is a must. Knowing how to snare game is also huge, and all it takes is a length of wire.


I think your heart is in the right place, but you might not have thought it through all the way.

You have four people in your family, and expect six friends to show up if the shtf. You've put aside a years supply of grub for those ten people. TEOTWAWKI occurs, and what you have on hand is it, no more, forever... at least until the great thinnings occur. Your group has all the skill sets anyone would ever need. Then the golden horde refugees start arriving. It's October, and no more vegetables or grain till next July or August. Ten more people are in your group now, and your going to run out of food by April. Yes, they can break more garden and collect more compostables to build up that new garden area... then one of those people sneaks out, and brings all their friends and families into this kind caring group. Now they're 50 people there, and you're going to run out of food by Christmas. No problem, you'll just fish and hunt for the extra food... till, a week into the TEOTW, you realize every unprepared family in the region is doing the same thing, and there's not a living animal anywhere to be found, outside of very hungry gun toting refugees that already thinking about long pork.

My point, in short.... you cannot feed the masses with a fixed amount of prepped food. You'll live just as long as you have food... and if you don't have enough on hand, till you can replenish from the farms orchards, fields, and gardens, it's game over. Add additional mouths, REGARDLESS of their skills or motivation levels, without additional food, everyone starves. IF the End happened at the beginning of the planting season, this kind hearted stance might actually work. Here in Tx, we can do two growing seasons, but rarely do, because of late summer droughts.

Now if your a grain farmer, and have a silo with 100K bushels of grain, yeah, your good to go, and hundreds of strong backs would be needed to do all that manual labor (if no one kept a years extra supply of diesel on hand).


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## Sonshine (Jul 27, 2007)

AngieM2 said:


> I still don't think this is about those that try and cannot prepare more, it is about those that have been told, acknowledge hearing and say "I'll come to your house" type of non-prepping people.
> 
> Most of us here will not be very inclined to help them as they live higher on the hog now, and don't put away necessities for later.
> 
> I have not seen one here say, a bad thing about those that try to help themselves be prepared for the worse = from job loss, house fire, medical problems, or SHTF totally.


In our case, most people don't know we're preppers, so have no idea what we have. Those that do know are also preppers and we have discussed how we would work together as a group. I can't speak for others, but when things fall apart, there are some I would help, but they have to be willing to give too. They either work, or they don't stay. Many in our group are military or military vets, so I figure if it's not working out with someone that won't pull their share of the work, then they will be able to force them out.


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## Sonshine (Jul 27, 2007)

Sourdough said:


> I feel that most of you are thinking of a horror that lasts a week or two, maybe even a month. I wish people would get wrapped around the idea that it may never return to "Normal". I think the ONLY safe place will be inside a military base. I understand that U.S. Congress has it's butt covered for food and safety.
> To me the goal will be to still be alive after the first four to six months. I do think that I shall be one of many that the Wolves pull down.


I believe that when it happens there will be no going back. That's why I don't depend on what we have stored, but on self sustaining things.


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## Sonshine (Jul 27, 2007)

Forerunner said:


> For what it's worth, I began to see far too many holes in the rapture theory, myself, some years ago.
> 
> I believe God's complacent and self-deluded children are the bulk of the problem, and I don't believe Father is in the business of protecting His own from the results of their OWN folly....... indeed, it has been strongly suggested otherwise, time and again, in the Scriptures.
> 
> ...


I don't agree with the mainstream veiw on the rapture. God did not remove Noah and his family, he just told them how to prepare for what was coming.


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## Common Tator (Feb 19, 2008)

In an extended food shortage, you may have people breaking into homes to steal from you, and kill you if you get in the way. Sharing may not be an option, unless you are willing to use deadly force to protect your food supplies.

All of this talk of compassion may have no bearing on reality when things fall apart.


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## Terri (May 10, 2002)

I don't believe that Mike was talking about sharing with EVERYBODY, just SOME people! 

With SOME people, a guard can be posted at night so that nobody breaks in while you sleep. And, yes, there will be more skills and more hands to weed and plaant and preserve.

Personally, my family eats. More people would be fine but not if it puts my families meals at risk.


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## Laura Zone 5 (Jan 13, 2010)

Common Tator said:


> In an extended food shortage, you may have people breaking into homes to steal from you, and kill you if you get in the way. Sharing may not be an option, unless you are willing to use deadly force to protect your food supplies.
> 
> All of this talk of compassion may have no bearing on reality when things fall apart.


I pray it never comes to this, but if it does....
I will protect my children, like a grizzly bear protects it's cubs....


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## nostawmama (Dec 29, 2011)

the other problem that I see with bringing people into the group- how would you know if the person would be valuable or not? And how would you determine how trustworthy they are? 

How many times has something happened and you thought "Wow, I never expected that from him/her!" This happens most frequently when something traumatic occurs in said persons life....

People that see possibility of survival in your group will lie, cheat, and steal to get in there. And once part of the group, chances are the group will try to work with this person to justify taking them into the fold in the first place. Also, just sending them on there way is a risky decision. Now this person knows what your resources, your strategy for protection, the people in your group, your weaknesses... That is a dangerous person you are sending out into the world! 

People are funny critters and I think sometimes we can see the logic from afar but not when we are close to the situation. It is what makes giving advice so easy but making decisions for yourself so hard.


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## cvk (Oct 30, 2006)

I have written this so many times on sooooo many forums over the years but still it bears repeating. You are NOT accepting one person when you let somebody into your life. They bring with them relatives, friends etc etc etc and in the end you had better understand that their own close knit circle is far more important to them than you are. Do you think for one minute that a parent will not take from you to feed their grown children, grand children, Mother, Father, grandmother, grandfather, spouse, spouses family and on and on and on. Would you seek refuge with someone that has food and let your own children starve? Get real! It sounds noble but you are just assuring that you will not survive and neither will your family! Believe that NOBODY will let those close to them starve while accepting your food and hospitality! You are just playing games with your own heads.


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## Sonshine (Jul 27, 2007)

Common Tator said:


> In an extended food shortage, you may have people breaking into homes to steal from you, and kill you if you get in the way. Sharing may not be an option, unless you are willing to use deadly force to protect your food supplies.
> 
> All of this talk of compassion may have no bearing on reality when things fall apart.


I disagree, you can show compassion and still protect your family and property. It's all about using wisdom.


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## 7thswan (Nov 18, 2008)

We have a family that insists they will come here. They have been told their job will be security. To protect all of the gardens,animals,food. They agreed. They also know that they have no idea on how to grow,preserve,feed,tend what we have ,so takeing from us would assure them that next year they would starve. It's far better to aquire the skills needed to rely on oneself,that expect of others. Others will always let you down.


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## nostawmama (Dec 29, 2011)

Common Tator said:


> All of this talk of compassion may have no bearing on reality when things fall apart.


I would agree.

I would generally consider myself to be a reasonably compassionate person, I can listen to someone that is down about something and hope they make it through whatever is bothering them. I can offer my help and or advice at my discretion.

On the other hand I have a friend that is very empathetic as well as compassionate. People share worries with her and she offers help of advice at here discretion. And then goes on to worry about them, loose sleep over their problems and in general be miserable over problems not even hers! 

In an absolutely terrible shtf situation I wonder how people like her would fair?

(BTW this is one of my best friends and I am terrified for her.)


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## Common Tator (Feb 19, 2008)

Sonshine said:


> I disagree, you can show compassion and still protect your family and property. It's all about using wisdom.


After the event, you have been able to feed your family from your stores,and you are still carrying a healthy weight. A sure sign that you have food.You have a tidy garden in the yard, and he sees you from a distance. He hasn't eaten in several days, since he killed that old woman who lived alone. He has killed enough now that it hardly bothers him anymore. He ate what food she had, and left her body where it had fallen when he broke her neck with his bare hands. He didn't like the idea of killing others for food, but if he asked for it, they might say 'no'. They might arm themselves and defend themselves. Or while he is at the front door asking the wife, the husband might appear from the side yard and shoot him.

So now he uses stealth and surprise to his advantage. He was watching you, and you were completely unaware you were being watched. He had found a rifle and a pistol at the old woman's house. He stashed the rifle in the woods and the pistol in the waist of his pants, and waited until dark. 

Through the window, he can see you serving supper. He can smell food, and, is that meat? Oh, that will taste good! It is getting dark, so he can slink toward your house unnoticed. He hides by the barn. Your son comes out to head into the house to eat, and he gets behind him and snaps his neck. So silent, you never heard it. He stashes the body in the barn, and hides beside the back door of your house. He is waiting for you to come to the door to call your son in for supper.

The dog is in the house with you. He perks up and sniffs the back door, and begins barking at it. You peek out the window and see a dark figure hunched there. And you instantly sense that he means you harm.

Do you

a. Arm yourself and prepare to defend yourself

or

b. Open the door and invite him to supper?


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## nostawmama (Dec 29, 2011)

Common Tator said:


> Do you
> 
> a. Arm yourself and prepare to defend yourself
> 
> ...


This is easy. Substitute woman and child instead of loan man in this scenario and then it would be a harder call. 

First off you might not readily identify as a threat.
Second, people tend to feel more compassion for children.


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## cvk (Oct 30, 2006)

Now that is enough to make the hair stand up on the back of your neck!!!!!! EEEEEEKKKKKKKK!!!


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## nostawmama (Dec 29, 2011)

cvk said:


> Now that is enough to make the hair stand up on the back of your neck!!!!!! EEEEEEKKKKKKKK!!!


I guess we are sick pups down here in S&EP!


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## Laura (May 10, 2002)

People already use their children to manipulate others. The only way that's gonna change is to get worse.

We already know how to spot a large predator and what to do with him. We need to twist our brain around not hesitating when he sends in a scrawny big-eyed waif asking for crumbs.

(Toldja' I'm mean)


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## elkhound (May 30, 2006)

Laura said:


> People already use their children to manipulate others. The only way that's gonna change is to get worse.
> 
> We already know how to spot a large predator and what to do with him. We need to twist our brain around not hesitating when he sends in a scrawny big-eyed waif asking for crumbs.
> 
> (Toldja' I'm mean)


hardtimes call for hard,calculated decision making...nothing wrong with that.


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## elkhound (May 30, 2006)

story for yal....when we get older or have disabilities we cant be rambo and fight.you need a weapon to defend yaself.....and dont think a 22lr cant serve that purpose.heres a hard decision from some of the last great generation.he may be old and cant fist fight but with a tool.he defend himself from 3 thugs....read more....people arent as brave when there cohorts in crime get shot down in front of them....moral of this story...dont mess with a armed vet.


WWII vet, 92, kills intruder with single shot in Kentucky - U.S. News


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## Common Tator (Feb 19, 2008)

nostawmama said:


> I guess we are sick pups down here in S&EP!


Or perhaps we are willing to ponder upon the unthinkable.

That is why we are preppers, after all.


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## Terri (May 10, 2002)

Here is prepping as I see it.

I am older. I walk with a cane, and my reaction time is down. If SHTF I have a target on my back, and I am not much good in a fight. If I try to go it alone I will fail. Even if I were young and strong I would have to sleep sometime!

BUT, I have a house with a fireplace, a garden, some food set by, and I can preserve food. I am also an RN. As a lone wolf I would fail: as part of a group I am of value and somebody else can help with the defense and the digging.

I have a husband and a couple of teens: if this were not true I would need help to stay safe.


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## Mike in Ohio (Oct 29, 2002)

nostawmama said:


> This is easy. Substitute woman and child instead of loan man in this scenario and then it would be a harder call.
> 
> First off you might not readily identify as a threat.
> Second, people tend to feel more compassion for children.


Why would it be a harder call? Anyoned that approaches stealthily - particularly at night - is a threat.

The correct answer under the circumstances described is neither a) nor b). The correct answer is c) - eliminate the threat without hesitation. If there is a potential threat you don't prepare to arm yourself (you should already be armed) - that is a good way to end up dead.

Mike


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## nostawmama (Dec 29, 2011)

Mike in Ohio said:


> Why would it be a harder call? Anyoned that approaches stealthily - particularly at night - is a threat.
> 
> The correct answer under the circumstances described is neither a) nor b). The correct answer is c) - eliminate the threat without hesitation. If there is a potential threat you don't prepare to arm yourself (you should already be armed) - that is a good way to end up dead.
> 
> Mike


In theory yes but the compassion and empathy we have can interrupt the logical sequence. I think this is kind of what we are discussing- some people here were critical of the lack of compassion and lack of empathy that some preppers seem to have. We were discussing how this lack could benefit us in a survival situation. 

I don't think the majority really wants to be categorized as unfeeling punks but the ones that are able to put the softer feelings aside in a harsh world are better equipped to survive it.


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## Sonshine (Jul 27, 2007)

Common Tator said:


> After the event, you have been able to feed your family from your stores,and you are still carrying a healthy weight. A sure sign that you have food.You have a tidy garden in the yard, and he sees you from a distance. He hasn't eaten in several days, since he killed that old woman who lived alone. He has killed enough now that it hardly bothers him anymore. He ate what food she had, and left her body where it had fallen when he broke her neck with his bare hands. He didn't like the idea of killing others for food, but if he asked for it, they might say 'no'. They might arm themselves and defend themselves. Or while he is at the front door asking the wife, the husband might appear from the side yard and shoot him.
> 
> So now he uses stealth and surprise to his advantage. He was watching you, and you were completely unaware you were being watched. He had found a rifle and a pistol at the old woman's house. He stashed the rifle in the woods and the pistol in the waist of his pants, and waited until dark.
> 
> ...


Which is why I said you use wisdom. Anyone slinking around would set off all kinds of alarms in my mind. BUT, you forgot some things in your scenario, we have neighbors that are also preppers, and we already watch out for each other, so when things get that bad we'll have things set up to have guards. We live close to an AF base and since DH is active duty, some of our prepper friends are military, security police to be exact. One of my neighbors, who we have already been discussing these things with is an ex-army ranger. I'm not stupid and have quite a bit of real life experiences around desperate people and have become a pretty good judge of people, but I also have support.


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## Sonshine (Jul 27, 2007)

Common Tator said:


> After the event, you have been able to feed your family from your stores,and you are still carrying a healthy weight. A sure sign that you have food.You have a tidy garden in the yard, and he sees you from a distance. He hasn't eaten in several days, since he killed that old woman who lived alone. He has killed enough now that it hardly bothers him anymore. He ate what food she had, and left her body where it had fallen when he broke her neck with his bare hands. He didn't like the idea of killing others for food, but if he asked for it, they might say 'no'. They might arm themselves and defend themselves. Or while he is at the front door asking the wife, the husband might appear from the side yard and shoot him.
> 
> So now he uses stealth and surprise to his advantage. He was watching you, and you were completely unaware you were being watched. He had found a rifle and a pistol at the old woman's house. He stashed the rifle in the woods and the pistol in the waist of his pants, and waited until dark.
> 
> ...


I completely missed the part about my son. First of all, it would be hard for anyone to sneak around my house, because in our neighborhood we watch out for each other. I've already had neighbors call me about suspicious characters in the area. Secondly, my DS has been taking martial arts since he was 4 years old, broke his first board when he was 6. He's also already 5'7 and just turned 14, so he would not be an easy target. He's also being taught to shoot various weapons and is pretty good at hitting what he aims at.


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## terri9630 (Mar 12, 2012)

Sonshine said:


> Which is why I said you use wisdom. Anyone slinking around would set off all kinds of alarms in my mind. BUT, you forgot some things in your scenario, we have neighbors that are also preppers, and we already watch out for each other, so when things get that bad we'll have things set up to have guards. We live close to an AF base and since DH is active duty, some of our prepper friends are military, security police to be exact. One of my neighbors, who we have already been discussing these things with is an ex-army ranger. I'm not stupid and have quite a bit of real life experiences around desperate people and have become a pretty good judge of people, but I also have support.




Being military, when TSHTF your neighbors and friends may be scattered/deployed or otherwise engaged and not able to help you. My husband and I grew up in the military so we've seen how often and quickly people can get moved.


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## terri9630 (Mar 12, 2012)

Sonshine said:


> When times get harder, I know that some of my neighbors are already prepared.  I also happen to know a few in the neighborhood that are military vets, and preppers. I think we'll be about as safe as we can possibly be. I am not saying there won't be some to try to take what we may have, but I also know that there's many that will work together to protect what we have.




Not my neighbors. They believe that the gov will fix everything and there is always FEMA and the Red Cross. 

We have purposely invited a few over and made only food my youngest, with food allergies, can eat but made it very bland and said we couldn't have any of the spices they asked for because we were worried about anaflactic shock from my daughter inhaling the powder. I know they didn't like it but that was the point. Hopefully that will keep them from showing up for a while but I know that eventually they will remember that they know how to cook chicken and that we have chickens...... We made an effort to keep the pig a secret. We have a nice freezer full of pork and very few know it. We also emptied the pantry when the neighbor's were over. My closet was packed and the pantry had a good scrubbing.


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## ne prairiemama (Jan 30, 2010)

I dunno I get very annoyed with folks who have to have all kinds of luxuries and call them "needs". It is something that drives me batty at times lol. 

I am GRATEFUL for folks here though. I do think that there are alot of very cautious compassionate folks right here on S&EP. We had fallen on very hard times before I knew anyone here well and I just want to say folks went above and beyond... You all are good folks. Careful but good.  I thank you. 

One good thing about a large family and dc is as they get older our sons are very helpful physically with work & could be as far as shooting or such things. The bad is that you have your heart walking around outside your body so to speak and with little ones, keeping quiet would be very very hard. 

It would be difficult to me to turn away a hungry child....


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## Common Tator (Feb 19, 2008)

terri9630 said:


> Being military, when TSHTF your neighbors and friends may be scattered/deployed or otherwise engaged and not able to help you. My husband and I grew up in the military so we've seen how often and quickly people can get moved.


My kids are both on Active duty. They have told me not to expect them to show up if the SHTF. They will be doing whatever the military wants them to do.


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## sidepasser (May 10, 2002)

I think most people here would give someone the shirt off their back if the person needing it was really trying to help themselves, i.e. trying to get a job (working at whatever job was available), trying to growing a garden, etc. and if they asked for help, like: can you show me how to plant tomatoes/corn/beans so they will come up..we'd be all over them like stink on a skunk.

It is those folks who WATCH us plant a garden, watch us go off to whatever our "work" is (and that can be working on our farm, raising our kids/garden/beef on the hoof, etc.) and they do nothing for themselves..those are the ones that are never going to prepare for anything. Those folks think that "someone" will take care of them. That someone could be their neighbor, family, government..just "someone". 

Those are the people that will starve if anything ever happens and that anything could be literally a lost job, two weeks without pay after a layoff, an illness, truck breaks down and they can't get to work..etc. Those folks just don't "get it". 

I have relatives like that and my mom always feels sorry for them. I don't. She thinks I am uncaring but I don't feel sorry for people who have money to buy drugs, drink, get arrested, and then whine when they can't pay their light bill. I have nothing to do with these people and have to constantly chase them away from my mom. They know that if they have a "good story" that she'll give them a few dollars. I had to put my foot down and let them all know that I wouldn't put up with their "begging" from my mom anymore. 

Worst words a person like those can hear is "No, followed by "get a job"..oh my, you'd think I sent the plague off on them. 

Those are the ones that you will be watching for: shifty, sneaky, dangerous people who wouldn't think twice about stealing everything you have so they won't have to work. Those are the people who would actually kill you for your food, money, clothing, place to live.

And yes, they are also the ones that "run in packs" same as gangs do. If honest folk think they can outlast a gang of hungry druggies, you'd better think again. If honest folk don't work together, a pack will take you out. All these folks know is how to use others to get what they want.

Thankfully I have outlasted most of my "worthless" relatives..seems those folks tend to die off a lot quicker than folks who don't use drugs, drink to excess, and live dangerously. I also moved a state away. Funny how these are 2nd and 3rd cousins that I rarely see unless they wanted something. Ask them to help out with anything in exchange for money and you'd see them disappear like roaches when a light is flipped on.

I don't think anyone here minds helping those who are trying to help themselves. You will know those trying to help themselves by how they ask for help. If they mention "show me, tell me how, etc." you pretty much know that they want to learn for themselves. If they say "give me", then you know they have no interest in learning anything and want something for nothing.


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## Common Tator (Feb 19, 2008)

Well said Sidepasser! Thank you!


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## Mike in Ohio (Oct 29, 2002)

nostawmama said:


> In theory yes but the compassion and empathy we have can interrupt the logical sequence. I think this is kind of what we are discussing- some people here were critical of the lack of compassion and lack of empathy that some preppers seem to have. We were discussing how this lack could benefit us in a survival situation.
> 
> I don't think the majority really wants to be categorized as unfeeling punks but the ones that are able to put the softer feelings aside in a harsh world are better equipped to survive it.


Maybe I think a little differently. Part of my job (for 13+ years)is managing an incident response team. We train to deal with the issue at hand and not to let emotion interfere with getting the job done. So I guess in that sense I am unfeeling. I can empathize and have compassion but it doesn't mean I won't do what needs to be done when it needs to be done. It comes down to doing things by the numbers.

Mike


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