# The Haiti earthquake...a real world disaster to learn from



## Wisconsin Ann (Feb 27, 2007)

I'm watching the various news shows try to cover the disastrous earthquake in Haitai..and it's very revealing.

Only people with a generator and some form of skype or over-the-internet phone service are able to get info out via phone. Otherwise is scanty radio reports. 

Buildings collapsed, trapping thousands. The government (which is POORLY RUN at the best of times) has said they have no way of knowing how many are injured, trapped, or killed. (Haiti is the poorest country in the western hemisphere and largely considered 3rd world)

Port au Prince was hit hard...a city of 3million. What I'm finding interesting is the way things are taking quite a while to get rolling. And the people there have NO resources of their own. It's been a day already...and there's no outside feet on the ground yet. There's no communications towers, the airport runway seems to be okay, but no control tower...so they're going to be flying in on site only. And hopefully communication between planes.

This is only an hour or so flight from southern florida. It's an hour's BOAT TRIP from Cuba. and right on the same island as the Dominican Republic.

Anyway, I plan on watching to see who is able to get word out...how...how people survived...


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## tiffnzacsmom (Jan 26, 2006)

As shaky as the land is due to the size of the earthquake and because so many of the buildings were substandard to begin with its a wise move to not go in and help until after all the aftershocks have gone and the most unstable of the buildings finish collapsing otherwise the rescuers may end up needed rescued. I think when we jump in with both feet immediately before all the needs are known we tend to do more damage than good in the long run. Remember, short term fixes never result in long term improvements. A friend of mine's father is living in the Dominican Republic and I hope he is safe for my friend's sake.


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## Jennifer L. (May 10, 2002)

I think they are in poor shape there for resources, but it only happened at dusk last night, and the real work will start getting done with daylight. 

I heard that a good share of the people live on just over $2 a day, not much way they can get much ahead for disasters. Bad situation there, anyway.


Jennifer


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## Riverrat (Oct 14, 2008)

Just a quick update, France has rescue teams on the way, Canada has advance teams in route, United States has teams from both civilian and military on the way, and are looking at sending in a hospital ship. Feet are starting to get on the ground. Just got this from a quick blurb, of which I missed part. could be leaving out other teams and responses.


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## Wisconsin Ann (Feb 27, 2007)

http://www.homesteadingtoday.com/member.php?u=20575tiffnzacsmom, emergency response teams have about 36 hours after a big quake to find survivors. If they don't get in fast..they turn into a search and recover. They're used to going in immediately. It's their job and calling. 

There's a response hospital ship in Baltimore..but it won't be there until Monday (most likely)...but that will give them a fully equipped hospital to use for those who need continuing care. 

Amazingly, there are people on facebook and twitter who are sending out information. That, I'd guess, is coming from cell phones with internet connections? via the satellites perhaps? I'm just not up on cell technologies. 

They have said the people there average $713 a year. The whole city is built of concrete, with no real building standards...so it was ripe for collapse.  

All the folks I've watch so far are saying WATER is what's needed first. They can find food by scrounging..and of course you can survive for days without food..but WATER that's clean is the first problem..and the most difficult to find without outside help. Complicating things on that front is that it's the dry season there...so no rain in the forecast.


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## Wisconsin Ann (Feb 27, 2007)

What I'm most interested in seeing, from a purely clinical point of view, is the reaction of the people of Port au Prince. They have NOTHING even during the good times. totally unprepared for a disaster...the city has no real emergency services, only 2 hospitals with 1000 beds between them...for 3MILLION people..and one of those hospitals collapsed.

so. Will we see riots when food arrives? Will people maintain some sort of decorum, or will it deteriorate until outsiders can enforce laws? 

and..on another note...will this trigger a "save haiti" sort of thing world wide (or at least in the immediate vicinity) and will haiti end up BETTER OFF than before?


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## Callieslamb (Feb 27, 2007)

Can anyone say 72 hour kits? We can all learn a lot from these events. My thoughts and prayers are with the suffering today.


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## Randy Rooster (Dec 14, 2004)

most of those folks live hand to mouth. its tough to have a 72 hour kit when you live on $2 a day.

I hope the good folk of this country that have so much to be thankful for every day, step up big time for these poor people.


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## AngieM2 (May 10, 2002)

sounds as if their 'regular' life is a study in survival basics. This is just a very advanced course.

Now we'll see how the other world populations and how their population reacts. 

I think we do have things to learn from watching (and maybe finding a way to help, if so inclinded) this even happen.


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## TheMartianChick (May 26, 2009)

I heard that communications are down because most people who have phones in Haiti, use prepaid cell phones that are mostly handled by one company. So I guess if their tower was hit by the quake, then the phones are useless.

Although this is a disaster of major proportions, the Haitian people are amazingly resilient. If you think back over the years...They have been hit by hurricanes over and over and still manage to pick up the pieces and survive. I guess what doesn't kill you, really does make you stronger! These are people who know how to survive on very little and they know how to scavenge for their basic needs. Water, however, will be a big issue for them.

I hope that they are able to rescue those who are trapped and get aid to those who need it there. This really has to be a nightmare!


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## ovsfarm (Jan 14, 2003)

This is from a ministry group called Jesus in Haiti ( www.jesusinhaiti.org ) The director has adopted several Hatian boys and those are the ones he talks about.
****************
Right after the quake:

This is an update from Tom. 


Our family is safe. The *buildings, homes, businesses, and hospitals of Port-au-Prince are flattened.* We stand outside and weep as *we hear thousands of crying people*. Thousands have died, many, many around our house. Ten of the boys were out rescuing people from under fallen walls and buildings. 

One of our guys from Minnotree just came by on motorcycle, The big rice *factory, with 500 men working, collapsed*. Titiyan, Source Matles, Minnotree, flat, except a few houses; Pastor Jackie's house still stands tall. 

*Gas station near our house, market, all flat. Several hospitals have collapsed, and, therefore, no place to take people*. My boys who have families in these villages are weeping and praying in the yard. We feel it is too *unsafe to drive with power lines down and total chaos*. 

*Our houses shook and swayed back and forth for at least ten seconds. I was driving and thought the axle fell out*. Roger is not here. He was in Port-au-Prince at bible college. Pray for Manel, Roger, Jony and Deckenson, Claismay, Bobby and our entire staff.

The air is full of wailing. We just got after shock, about four of them since the big one, and the boys are afraid to come in the houses. More later. Not sure what lies ahead. God is in control. Pray for the people of Haiti. tominhaiti.

Late yesterday:

This is the worst thing to ever happen to Haiti. The worst news will come tomorrow. My heart is so heavy. We just got our *15th or so after shock *tremor. Some last for 10 seconds. It is very scary. 

By tomorrow morning, our webmaster will have a donate button for you to help with this crisis. We will be helping as many people as we can, in our points of light, and neighborhood in the next few days and weeks. We will be helping with medical help, food and drinking water. No amount of money will be enough but whatever we get, every single penny will go to help these poor people. Sadly, we already have some deaths in our points of light, we will need to help with that. 

We are all *sleeping in the courtyard outside *as the houses keep shaking. Much of our inside stuff was broken but house seems solid. we will check in the morning on structural damage. 

We plan on leaving at 5am before sun up to visit our villages. Several motorcyles have come to our house from the village checking on us, with terrible reports of death and destruction. 

Our Roger came home 30 minutes ago, fell into our arms, He was at Bible school in a building that collapsed, he was injured and walked the 5 miles home. He lost some classmates. 

Our board of directors were scheduled to come this week but we have cancelled the meeting. This will last for a long time. Just now another tremor, about number 17. We have *reports of much looting going on*. *Our guard did not show up today so I am standing guard duty over my sleeping family in the courtyard. *

We just got full supplies this morning, praise God. God placed us here for such a time as this. We will do our best to be Jesus to these people and bring relief. 

Side note, I brought a little blind boy home last week, 7 year old and blind since birth. What a sweetie, Jovens. We will seek medical help to check out his eyes. 

Also, just heard the *UN headquarters collapsed*. checking the report, will give you update tomorrow afternoon or night. Pray will you, still unaccounted for is Manel, Jony and Clasimay., tom 



For Contributions
Jesus in Haiti Ministries, Inc. | Suite 155 | 10214 Chestnut Plaza Drive | Fort Wayne, IN 46814 

(the bolded emphasis is mine, not the missionary's)

So...
-no warning (other than seismic activity in other parts of the world)
-no government help, foreign aid delayed
-communications problems
-rampant looting
-no outside help for the injured

The Atkinson book mentions that most of the severe earthquakes occur during the Northern hemisphere's winter time. It made me take a quick review of my 72 hr. kit to be sure we could stay on our property and yet be outside of all the buildings in the middle of winter if a quake affected our area. (BTW, the New Madrid quake of 1811-12 took place in December, January, and February)


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## wyld thang (Nov 16, 2005)

good grief you guys, this is third world!

on the other hand, believe it or not, on NPR this morning someone was saying the government/ngos actually had preps set by(water and food and ways to get/purify water) because of the storms in 2008. Now how much of that they will have to dig for is not known.

they will inspect the runway first, and the condition will then tell them what kind of planes can land(no damage or buckling--anything that landed before, some damage--go smaller planes with experienced bush-y pilots that can tap dance and chew gum at the same time). they can use brush fires for runway lites(that's what my BIL did in Africa on the swept dirt runways he used). the size of the planes they can use will determine how to get the heavy equipment down there. if the runway is bad, then they'll have to wait for boat. 

just saying, it's not snap your fingers and stuff happens.


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## bee (May 12, 2002)

With their corupt and incompetent government I have to wonder just how much aid will reach the people. The hope the "world" will rush in NOW and fix things for the Haitain people after sitting back and waiting for someone else to fix it all these years will most likely be in vain. Unless good ole "Unca" is shamed into it.....afterall they are right here on our doorstep.

Looking at the survivabilty of this disaster shows that the majority of the population had both no funds,no mobility,no advance warning to either leave or prepare and nowhere to go. In terms of human suffering this one is going to be huge. I find myself repulsed by my/our intent to study how this is dealt with by aid sources and the population of Haiti. I also remember relief efforts after Katrina and the Indonesian tsunami and the massive amount of collected goods that were unwanted(NO residents actually using donated used clothing?? Not them, with their Gubment credit cards)and the picture of several people on a field of jumbled donated clothing picking thru tons destined to be wasted after the tsunami. Americans have great and giving hearts; I am sure all across this country people are gearing up all kinds of drives and collections.I just wish the co-ordination of collection and need were better.


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## ovsfarm (Jan 14, 2003)

bee said:


> Americans have great and giving hearts; I am sure all across this country people are gearing up all kinds of drives and collections.I just wish the co-ordination of collection and need were better.


I agree, but wanted to relate some experiences with this. Our area had a bad flood 7 or 8 years ago. There were calls for donations. I was one of the volunteers who was helping to sort and distribute the donations. Definitely there were some good things that were donated. However, I was shocked at how much of the stuff donated was absolute garbage. People seemed to have cleaned out their rag bags and trash heaps for some of this stuff - dirty, stained, full of holes. Basically unwearable or unuseable. And I'm sure they got all sorts of warm fuzzie feelings for being so kind as to donate to charity and help the poor folks.

My rule of thumb it that if you wouldn't wear it, or give it to one of your relatives to wear, then it probably is trash, not a donation. So please keep in mind that not all the stuff donated is really of any help.

But I do agree with you totally that often times donations are tragically misused. I remember seeing pictures of grain rotting on docks in African countries with rampant starvation, because the local politicos couldn't get their acts together enough to put turf battles aside to let help get to the people. And the flip side of that, the local govt. overinflating mortality and devastation figures so that more aid would flow in either to line their pockets or improve their country.

I guess we just have to be very careful how we help those in need. IMO, not helping is not an option. So I have to do lots of research and talk to people well in advance so I know which groups I trust.


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## elkhound (May 30, 2006)

just another reason to have supplies in a secure spot so you can access in time of need.water..shelter..food....wonder what folks would give for a big berky or some other water filter right now there??? look at how much relief a water filter would give....right now..not days later.

i hope some nay sayers around the world are looking at this and are learning to be ready at some level.


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## didaho (Jan 22, 2008)

Here is a link to a ministry there in Haiti. He post on facebook every hour or so about conditions.

http://www.facebook.com/gracesavannah


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## didaho (Jan 22, 2008)

ovsfarm

I just now saw you posted about jesusinhaiti. Sorry about that


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## radiofish (Mar 30, 2007)

With this 7.0 Earthquake occuring in a foreign country, it may take a few days before sufficent relief personel and supplies arrive on site... 

Even though it may only be a hour plane ride from Florida or a hour by boat trip from Cuba, the logistics in sending disaster supplies into the pipeline can be staggering. Then having the support at the receiving end to distrubite the incoming relief. Being a Third World Country makes it even more difficult to administer, than if it had been that large of devistation within the Contiental US...

I just heard that a Marine Expidetionary Force being deployed from the East Coast (North Carolina) will be "boots on the ground" in Haiti within 48 hours. If the situtation at the ground zero is that bad, I sure would want to have a security force to oversee disaster relief efforts..

I did hear some of the relief efforts via ham radio communications earleir this morning on 20 meters SSB, before the propogation changed from the Carribean area.. For those interested, I heard them operating around 14.260 +/- MHz USB..


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## unregistered29228 (Jan 9, 2008)

I'm not sure how much help a BOB or a Berkey would be if the house collapsed suddenly. Not that these poor people could afford something as expensive as a Berkey. But the best prepping and planning would be of no use if it were all buried under tons of concrete or bricks. If the water supplies were disrupted, there's nothing to run through a filter anyway. 

For anyone wanting to donate to the Red Cross, you can text HAITI to number 90999. Your cell phone bill will be charged $10 one time only. I checked this on several news sites, and it's legit as far as I can tell. I'm going to do it today.


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## Randy Rooster (Dec 14, 2004)

just heard on the radio that their largest prison was damaged and the inmates have escaped.

What a disaster


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## GoldenCityMuse (Apr 15, 2009)

Will be interesting to see what structures survived. Heard a lot about the concrete structures that collapsed. If there is not sufficient reinforcing, concrete will always fail under tension[pulling] & torsion [twisting]. A very small house, not anchored to the foundation would likely fare better than those tied to the ground.


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## wyld thang (Nov 16, 2005)

GoldenCityMuse said:


> Will be interesting to see what structures survived. Heard a lot about the concrete structures that collapsed. If there is not sufficient reinforcing, concrete will always fail under tension[pulling] & torsion [twisting]. A very small house, not anchored to the foundation would likely fare better than those tied to the ground.


My sister has an architecture degree(and now works for an architect)but when she was in Africa(missions and ngo support) it was quite the horror show for her to watch them build multistory buildings, truly, that stuff falls down with the slightest stress, if not from the stress of building itself. She was impressed however with the design and construction of the little traditional huts BTW, those were way cool. (And it's her dream to go back and design cost-effective, simple and strong buildings, based on historical building tech and local materials)


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## elkhound (May 30, 2006)

thats the reason to have a filter..water sources disrupted.a good filter you can filter any water.its the tropics water is flowing down rivers,creeks etc.i understand the buidlings falling down on supplies but it jsut go to show dont have all your eggs in one basket.

cost of a filter.....i know most in Hatti cant afford one...but instead of just sending water in bottles why not add a filter so as to add to their abilities ot refill the bottles themselves.also why dont the folks building missions give out filters.that is a small cost in the schemes of things when doing mission work.


EDC...every day carry.....a small shoulder bag or day pack is all it takes.this would be a small bag to just get a start on basics.way to make fire,drinking water and a knife etc.

heres a filter for a EDC kit

http://cgi.ebay.com/NEW-Aquamira-FR...emQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item2557dc2342

also wonder how many there know how ot maek a filter from charcoal and sand? all they need is a bucket or sack or something to hold it and use to strain.plus they can always jsut boil it.


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## elkhound (May 30, 2006)

heres 44 pics of a reason to ahve a plan in place before it happens.family should have a plan if things go bad where do we meet? a common area known to all family members should be chosen before anything happens and talked about so everyone in family undestands what and where to meet.

these pcitures also show the importance to have a whistle on your person at all times.imagine being trapped and not having strength to holler.with a whistle you are saving energy.everyone on this forum should have a whistle for themselves and family members.

heres the link...but be warned...only for the strong..no children in room while viewing these.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/34845446/ns/news-picture_stories/displaymode/1247/?beginSlide=1


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## wyld thang (Nov 16, 2005)

hey elkhound, I'm pretty sure there is a missions type org that works on installing wells(hand pump, lo tech) etc for clean water, my sister came across some of them in Africa. The problem is the upkeep and maintenance, sad to say but the mindset for maintenance and even just keeping parts as they were intended to be used is just not there in many places "naturally"(trying to say that nicely...). Like if some one needs a crowbar they go take the handle off the pump and then its gone. It works much better if those things are installed and maintained in buildings or compounds where there is missionary/ngo staff to keep tabs on things. 

Actually many missionary groups are in the know ir mindset of setting up a filter instead of handing out bottled water. And I know the org my sister worked for required every worker and member of the workers family to have substantial bugout bags(including copies of all papers, passports, moeny(US dollars), etc) by the front door. I also have a friend who worked for Wycliffe who had a real tricked out bo vehicle, so I'm sure Wycliffe is on top of that as well. All that to say more missionaries are on top of things these days .


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## bigfoot2you (Oct 3, 2007)

What about the children? Orphans? Where will they go?


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## Wisconsin Ann (Feb 27, 2007)

the children...sigh. They'll go where the children do....scavenging, maybe an orphanage, maybe missionaries...There may well be an effort to match the orphans with families that lost children....

man. what a mess it is there. Now their talking about over 100,000 dead. They can't use the port because it's damaged...and for the night, the pilots who've been flying in using only their eyes...had to stop.

BUT in the next day they should get the tower working. that will start some more aid flowing in.

On a survivalist/prepper note: The Dominican republic, on the same island, but basically unaffected by the quake itself...is seeing price gouging, major food hording. and they're ramping up police efforts to keep riots under control...people are fearing shortages, and they're panicking.


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## fostermomma (Feb 26, 2007)

The children...Haiti already had multiple orphans many children are adopted from there to American families already. Who knows how many more orphans they have now, on the same token there where also probably multiple orphanges destroyed who knows what the loss of life was in them.


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## cast iron (Oct 4, 2004)

The first thing that came to mind is the discussion recently about what type of vehicle is needed to get around post disaster. Look at the terrain there in Haiti after the earthquake. 

The three wheelers that were discussed in that thread work fine on level paved roads or hardpacked smooth gravel roads, but they would be nearly useless in traversing most post earthquake terrain. For this type of terrain, one would need something like a two wheeled motorcycle, light weight, high ground clearance, with a good fuel filter, and a length of siphon hose.

The second thing that came to mind was the absolute importance of having ham radio as a communication means (here in the states anyway). It is about the only method that would allow for contacting others in your immediate area for networking, resource sharing, rescue work etc, as well as longer distance contact to check on family members and friends. 

Without communication with your network you are isolated, alone, and possibly vulnerable, and not knowing what is going on with the larger outside world makes for extreme uncertainty. Having some sort of communication with selected parts of the 'outside' world changes everything in a survival situation, not only from a practical hardware/physical perspective but from a mental perspective as well. I believe we often short-change the importance of emotional comfort during a survival situation as we tend to focus on all the physical aspects instead. 

Communication is the cornerstone to emotional comfort and psychological stability during times of extreme uncertainty. Simply knowing that family members are alright, though they may not be with you at your location helps greatly with emotional comfort and allows one the mental capacity to focus on the immediate problems at hand locally.


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## texican (Oct 4, 2003)

On a personal level, my heart goes out to the individuals.

On an impersonal level, this is another nail in Haiti's coffin.

Two years ago, the people were eating dirt cookies... reforestation efforts had failed because the starving people had stripped the hillsides bare, for food and charcoal. I received some grief saying that Haiti had no chance of survival. Just last month I read where slavery had been reintroduced, where parents were selling their children, so the family could get money for food, and the kids would be fed at their masters house.

I heard on NPR's All Things Considered... there's unlimited need, and absolutely no resources. Another report had Bloomberg, or whoever is mayor of NYC, telling citizens to go home, to take their canned goods and water and supplies with them, as there was zero infrastructure to get stuff to Haiti, and less than zero infrastructure (even before the quake) for distributing aid. NYC would not be sending human assistance until some sort of control was instituted in the country.

There is no medical treatment, other than first aid. Drudge has half a million dead on his headliner. I wonder if it is actually much more.

Three million need immediate aid. I daresay they all needed aid last week also, but most of the world has closed their eyes...

Driving home I got depressed and wondered what I could do. The thought of adopting some orphans crossed my mind. Then I thought about my last year's income and realized I'd probably not pass the standard. {My best client hasn't paid anything in a year... I get paid when they get paid... which is hopefully soon, as I'm scraping the bottom}


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## soulsurvivor (Jul 4, 2004)

I've been online since the quake was first reported late yesterday afternoon and reading every source I could find, continuing through the night and into today. I haven't been keeping track of all the links I've been to for finding info, so some of what I'm going to say here, I may not be able to confirm, but here goes:

Haiti had a UN peacekeeping team housed in one of those flattened buildings. There are over 9 thousand UN peacekeepers stationed in Port au Prince and over a 100 of those including their UN director is presumed dead in their destroyed building. It's a search and recovery for them now. 

In 2008 Haiti was hit with 3 successive hurricanes that claimed over 800 lives. I'm certain part of the reason they build with concrete is based on a need to protect themselves from hurricanes. The thought of an earthquake probably didn't take priority because they haven't had an earthquake like this since 1770. On the New York Times site, they were talking about this particular type of earthquake and why there wasn't any type of warning. Usually the earthquakes that hit that region hit at the northern end of the fault/trough area and are fairly mild and register only a 4 or 5 on the Richter scale, but this particular earthquake hit on the southern end of the fault at an extemely shallow depth. It didn't help that the quake was centered just 10 miles from Port au Prince. They've had 44 aftershocks so far and most of those are registering 4.5 and above with about 8 of those being a 5.0 and above. Scientists are very concerned with the possibility that the quakes will continue and perhaps effect the Dominican Republic on the other side of the island. It's not over and may not be for some weeks to come. As much as immediate aid is critically needed, there have to be some concerns for the first responders' safety at possibly finding themselves in the middle of yet another major quake.

As for the lack of infrastructure, the UN had reported back in September that the government was just beginning to get its act together on setting up systems of services and rebuilding infrastructures that were destroyed by the hurricanes, mudslides and flooding. The government had also been very busy in setting new construction guidelines for the city and new zoning to limit where new structures were being built. They knew it wasn't safe to have filmsy housing hanging on the sides of the hills there. The UN had a limited amount of emergency medical, food, water housed there but the few doctors there are reporting that all of this was quickly distributed and they were in desperate need of medical facilities and supplies just to treat the injured.

The first response team to arrive were the American Private Police Team. Hey, that's what they called them and I have to assume they're something like the Blackwater team that policed the Katrina disaster. From everything I could find out last night, the "looting" was in fact people running into destroyed buildings and dragging out any food supplies they could find to feed themselves and the thousands that were outside on the street because they had nowhere else to go. The people are desperately searching as they have strength for their loved ones buried in the rubble that's everywhere they look. One lady reported that "the world had come to an end and people were still screaming for help." 

The first 32 hours are critical for finding people alive in the aftermath of an earthquake. From that point forward it has become a search and rescue of the dead. There are dead bodies piled everywhere on the sides of the streets and people are walking around in daylight checking the bodies looking for their own family members. The survivors have a desperate need for water and the proper disposal of the dead to help keep down infections. 

At one point early this morning a very large crowd of people stood and sang hymns of praise to God. As with the aftermath of Katrina, we all find that we're same and that our faith is what sees us through. I'm not known for having a lot of faith in God, but I very much respect that quality of faith that humans have in their God.


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## AngieM2 (May 10, 2002)

SS - thanks for the synopsis of what you've found out.
I've seen parts of your report on the news, other parts I did not know.

Angie


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## shanzone2001 (Dec 3, 2009)

Randy Rooster said:


> just heard on the radio that their largest prison was damaged and the inmates have escaped.
> 
> What a disaster


Looting, violence, unsanitary conditions, no food or clean water, no medical care...all those poor children...All I can do right now is pray and feel...utterly and essentially useless....

I just went to the link and saw the pictures. I had to go hug my sleeping children....


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## naturelover (Jun 6, 2006)

I went looking for information about which reputable relief organizations are being recommended to make charitable donations to. 

America -
http://www.cnn.com/SPECIALS/2007/impact/ 

Canada -
http://www.ctvbc.ctv.ca/servlet/an/...aiti_100113/20100113/?hub=BritishColumbiaHome

.


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## shanzone2001 (Dec 3, 2009)

naturelover said:


> I went looking for information about which reputable relief organizations are being recommended to make charitable donations to.
> 
> America -
> http://www.cnn.com/SPECIALS/2007/impact/
> ...


Thanks for posting those links....


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## soulsurvivor (Jul 4, 2004)

Loss of life estimates are ranging anywhere from 100,000 to 500,000. At the bottom of the article there's an eye witness report by a Channel 13 news reporter that's in Port au Prince on a mission trip. I prefer eye witness reports.
http://cfnews13.com/News/Local/2010/1/13/help_rushes_to_haiti_after_catastrophic_earthquake.html

And this is a photo story link by boston.com called The Big Picture, which is something this site always does following major world events. It will be updated daily throughout this tragedy, just as they did with the Katrina aftermath.
http://www.boston.com/bigpicture/2010/01/earthquake_in_haiti.html

And adding in this link for CNN news updates on the aftermath of the Haiti earthquake:
http://www.cnn.com/2010/WORLD/americas/01/13/haiti.updates/index.html


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## Wisconsin Ann (Feb 27, 2007)

texican said:


> Driving home I got depressed and wondered what I could do. The thought of adopting some orphans crossed my mind. Then I thought about my last year's income and realized I'd probably not pass the standard. {My best client hasn't paid anything in a year... I get paid when they get paid... which is hopefully soon, as I'm scraping the bottom}


sorry about your client there....but times are tough and it's good of you to not push for payment....but man... a YEAR?

anyway. Ways to help in the long term.Bare with me...I'm thinking outloud.... What about putting the survival and prepping brains to work...HARD WORK....if the people who do this daily...who know how to get water flowing, how to make filters, how to turn something other than wood into heating.... What about somehow finding a way to get these ideas, projects, plans (physical plans would be a good thing)...to the missions or people who are in Haiti all year round trying to help? 

It's a slow go...but it's the only way they're ever going to be self sufficient. The place has BEAUTIFUL scenery..but the poverty is everywhere, the crime rate is horrendous...so tourists go elsewhere. There is no reason that they can't flourish just as The Domincan Republic has. 

At a guess....intuition, perhaps....this is being thought about all over the place. How to help longterm. It's been destroyed now and will have to rebuild from the ground up. It's time to do it RIGHT.

me...I've contacted a couple of the local organizations that have, for lack of a better term, set up shop in Haiti for the last 5 years. Right NOW they don't need people (sigh) they need money so they can buy medical stuff. After the initial few weeks, they say they'll need people to help rebuild. so...sent in my donation and put my name on the list of people to call when they're ready.


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## ovsfarm (Jan 14, 2003)

Ann, I like the way you think! Teach them to fish so they aren't relying on others to bring them fish. I have pondered the situation, but don't have the solution quite yet.

IMO, the Hatians are smart, resourceful, hardworking people. They have had to be or they would have never made it this long. I think the first thing to do would be to determine exactly what it is that THEY want--what constitutes a good life to them. Because too many times I have seen foreigners come in to Latin America trying to promote a happy middle class American lifestyle, which fails miserably the minute they are gone. What plays well in Ohio just doesn't cut it in the Islands.

Secondly, in order for anything to work, there would have to be a stable government that would work for the good of the people, not themselves. And sadly, that model is somewhat lacking in Central Am., South Am., and the Carribbean. If human rights and property rights are not dependable, then no one wants to bother to do anything that will just be swept away a couple of years later when the regime changes.

And finally, and I know this will be the most unpopular of all, there would have to be a No Tolerance attitude toward crime. No one will work toward any goal if they know there is a high liklihood that the fruits of their labors will either be destroyed or stolen before they can be harvested. I am sure some of the crime would lessen if people weren't starving and had some hope for the future. But unfortunately there are always those who steal, abuse, kill just for the thrill of it or because they place no value on human life. It would be impossible for a productive society to be established and flourish if people like those are left to prey on it in its infancy (whether they be highly placed government officials or street scum). They would have to be permanently removed. And that necessitates some very unpopular decisions and would be the hardest sell of all. 

IMO, if these things could happen (stable govt, crime under control, goals that the local really want), then with minimal inputs of training and technology, Haiti could become a paradise. And with careful planning could be positioned much better to withstand the dramatic hurricanes and earthquakes that sometimes happen there. We can always dream, can't we???


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## RedTartan (May 2, 2006)

I just wanted to chime in and say that I got an email from Heifer International this morning. They don't just give hand outs, but hands up as we all know. The email said that there were over 16,000 Heifer project participants in Haiti and they're collecting donations to help those and others, of course. I know I can trust Heifer, so I gave through them. 

Just posting this because I know that Heifer isn't the first organization that one thinks of in a situation like this...


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## Wisconsin Ann (Feb 27, 2007)

good one, RedTartan.

man...how do you build houses for people when there's no wood....easily? no real natural resources on the island...wonder if the building people er, contractors, could donate the leftovers from projects....if there was some sort of shipping arranged....

needs a donald trump or a...I dunno. General Eisenhower type to organize it all.


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## FarmerChick (Dec 28, 2009)

I am curious like Wisconsin Ann.

I wonder what it will be like when supplies hit the area. Great supplies. Will it go crazy or will it be somewhat organized?? WOW

Terrible disaster! Every country and personnel etc. will help best they can.


Canada pledged about $100 million for relief as did the USA.


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## Wisconsin Ann (Feb 27, 2007)

Apparently the anger is starting. Some of the survivors, who are just spending the daypulling people and bodies out of the rubble are asking "where are the supplies? where is the help?" And the aid people are trying to figure out HOW to distribute food and water when there's no real law and order in evidence....

day 3....


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## AngieM2 (May 10, 2002)

I just made a thread start, but our Chuck is on his way back from Malta and working on getting to Haiti to cover and help the situation.

I just happened on this as I was reading various facebook pages.

I figured he'd be heading there and figuring out how to help some.

He probably will be able to tell us where help could be best used and what, after he gets there.

Angie


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## insocal (May 15, 2005)

I am so very grateful for and proud of not only our American rescuers and soldiers and sailors and aid workers going to Haiti to help, but also those from all the other countries helping out. Did you all know the first help to arrive was from ICELAND? A bankrupt arctic island? People are just amazing. Trials like this really do bring out the best in people.

My heart goes out to the people of Haiti. They have suffered so much. And now this.


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## soulsurvivor (Jul 4, 2004)

AngieM2 said:


> I just made a thread start, but our Chuck is on his way back from Malta and working on getting to Haiti to cover and help the situation.
> 
> I just happened on this as I was reading various facebook pages.
> 
> ...


For anyone that needs immediate info from/to Haiti, their internet is still functional and can be accessed through Twitter/Facebook channels. The main page for the rest of us to keep updated is at:
http://twitter.com/BreakingNews/haiti-quake

There are a few people inside Haiti that are managing to keep connected and are giving updates as they can. Seems the Caribbean ocean cable held up and the internet service in Haiti is housed in what's described as a bunker building that used to be part of the old Canadian Embassy. They also said that the internet service there had just been updated prior to the quakes.

The aftershocks are beginning to take a toll on their nerves and the most 2 recent aftershocks were located directly under Port au Prince, increasing the effects felt. 

Also they said that bodies are beginning to burst. They have 60 dump trucks running fulltime to take these to the landfill but can't keep up with need.

They also need personal first aid kits and a way to purify water. There is some aid getting into the city, but mostly the airport is at capacity and no new flights are allowed to land.


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## soulsurvivor (Jul 4, 2004)

Just my personal observation and not worth much because I'm not there, but I think there should be some effort to evacuate the living from the Port au Prince area. The aftershocks haven't eased since the major quake hit and there's no reports of how long these will continue. Due to the instability of the remaining structures, the possiblity exists that more lives will be lost if they continue to be inhabited. There are millions of people existing outside without food, water or shelter. 

The ocean port is damaged beyond use for boat traffic and is not useable. The airport is limited in space for numbers of flights allowed and there is a fuel shortage for returning flights. The roads out of the city are semi-blocked by traffic, both human and vehicles that are out of fuel. 

I think back to Katrina and there was a focus on getting people out of the area until a more secure environment could be established. In my opinion, it's a need that's true for Port au Prince even moreso than it was for NO. 

Instead of focusing on keeping people there, someone needs to give attention to offering the survivors a way out of there to a temporary and safer environment.


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## luv2farm (Feb 15, 2008)

The relief plane leave Haiti EMPTY! IMO they could start evacuating the survivors just like they did in Katrina. Next question....... what to do with refugees when they land in Mexico, China, USA,Canada? It's just sad.....terribley sad :Bawling::Bawling:





soulsurvivor said:


> Just my personal observation and not worth much because I'm not there, but I think there should be some effort to evacuate the living from the Port au Prince area. The aftershocks haven't eased since the major quake hit and there's no reports of how long these will continue. Due to the instability of the remaining structures, the possiblity exists that more lives will be lost if they continue to be inhabited. There are millions of people existing outside without food, water or shelter.
> 
> The ocean port is damaged beyond use for boat traffic and is not useable. The airport is limited in space for numbers of flights allowed and there is a fuel shortage for returning flights. The roads out of the city are semi-blocked by traffic, both human and vehicles that are out of fuel.
> 
> ...


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## Forerunner (Mar 23, 2007)

This is not going to be a popular perspective, but it has come to me firmly and with an intensity that I dare not ignore.

I believe that we have been given a few small "heads-ups" over the last few years, and they are gaining in strength and magnitude.
The event in Haiti is a glimpse, maybe even a light shadow, of the events that I believe we will be facing here, soon.

I didn't take on the name "Forerunner" with abandon.
I see things. I live things. I instigate things.

When my barn burned, I realized that it was a gift of vision, nothing more and nothing less. I was being given a strong dose of what it is like to survive a disaster. I am being given now, every day, a strong dose of how ever more frugally and inventively to make use of the resources that are made available to me. I can't put it out of my head that these and all related skills and mindsets will be priceless in very short order.

Take every thing that you see coming out of Haiti and bind it tightly to your thought process and how you perceive and react to life and survival.
Use hindsight into their situation to prepare for your own.

I lay awake nights now, pondering my own reaction to the loss of the rest of my "belongings", my home, my provisions.
What if my entire community were devastated by an event ? any event ?
What if quakes, solar storms, wide-scale straight line wind storms, whatever, destroyed a great portion of the country ?

What type of provision could withstand that ?
What construction material do you use ?
How do you store or procure food and water ?
How do you get past the ghastliness of transporting bodies en masse for burial when your own family members are among them ?
How does one steel oneself against such possibilities?


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## AngieM2 (May 10, 2002)

soulrunner - apprarently USA is sending a floating airport 

Once it gets there that should help with the help getting in and out.


forerunner, good points to ponder upon and take note.


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## WanderingOak (Jul 12, 2004)

I heard that the quake caused seabeds around the island to rise dramatically, making all current nautical depth sounding charts worthless. That will make navigation of deep draft vessels difficult, until new soundings can be made.


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## Wisconsin Ann (Feb 27, 2007)

One of the biggest hospital ships we have is arriving Monday, and also has the facilities to make water. so..that's good. has a landing pad, 4 operating theaters, helicopters, etc. 

LOTS of ships and supplies are arriving today. They're having trouble getting through the roads...although most of the roads IN port au prince are clear enough to move trucks through. 

People are gathering in the soccer fields, etc. setting up food stations, etc. The Aid Disaster Teams are on the ground now, and setting up refugee camps. The Army is there for security and doing what they do best...making things organized.


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## Randy Rooster (Dec 14, 2004)

Hopefully the coast guard cutters in the area have been at work doing that.


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## Mike in Ohio (Oct 29, 2002)

If anyone is looking to donate, you might want to consider http://www.medwish.org/. 

Medwish is Cleveland based and they have medical supplies for Haiti. They could use help with donations to help cover transport costs.

Medwish has been around for quite some time and focuses on diverting "unwanted" medical supplies and equipment from hospitals, medical distributors, etc so that these items go to needy areas around the world instead of landfills.

Mike


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## Wisconsin Ann (Feb 27, 2007)

Now THIS is interesting...just watched a reporter who's been out into the countryside...and come back into Port au Prince...the people ARE calm..they're waiting. they HAVE food and are sharing with each other. They have water, and are being careful with it. Food and water are also coming into the outskirts of the city from the hill people, where there wasn't as much damage.

There is, however a problem brewing with those escaped prisoners. Reports have them toting guns, 2000 men in various small groups. That could be an exaggeration, or truth. :shrug:


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## Common Tator (Feb 19, 2008)

GoldenCityMuse said:


> Will be interesting to see what structures survived. Heard a lot about the concrete structures that collapsed. If there is not sufficient reinforcing, concrete will always fail under tension[pulling] & torsion [twisting]. A very small house, not anchored to the foundation would likely fare better than those tied to the ground.


Wrong. California code requires that houses be bolted to the foundation. This has saved countless lives and saved countless homes. Before they bolted homes to the foundations, houses would shake off their foundations. In an upward thrust type quake, the house could actually fly off the foundation and crash back down.

This article by Dorothy Ainsworth shows the proper way to secure a home to the foundation. It also shows proper reinforcing of cement block for the foundation. This is in Oregon, also earthquake country. 
http://dorothyainsworth.com/eric1/house.html

We have had several larger earthquakes than Haiti's, and the smaller amounts of destruction and less loss of life is due to better building here.

Older homes can be retrofitted, and regardless of where you live, earthquakes are a very real threat.


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## wyld thang (Nov 16, 2005)

I'm wondering why they aren't doing air drops of medicine and water filters? My BIL used to do that in Africa, just small ones out of his small plane. There is a little parachute attached to the package, a rough landing yeah, but you can pack a lot of things ok. Or even medical etc people(military?) or helicopters from DR side? I suppose safety would be the reason why with helicopters, until a peacekeeping presence is set up to ensure saftey. 

I am in awe of our military's hospital ships. That is one place I'm glad my taxes go.


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## Wisconsin Ann (Feb 27, 2007)

Tator...while California has had some larger quakes..they've never been that close to the large cities OR that shallow. This quake was almost on the surface, geologically speaking. THAT is a huge difference int he damage results.

Yes, the difference in building is a big difference. Haiti has no trees for building period. So they build with concrete. Until recently, they had no building codes. They build to get thru Hurricanes..which is a yearly occurrence. A building that works for a hurricane will not work for an earthquake in most cases. 

Wyld Thang: they don't really need it yet. There are a few people who are getting worried...but by and large, they HAVE some food and water. It's not dire straights yet. Mostly they're worried about getting survivors out. And now, trying to get the food and water set up.

Since they have a mostly working airport now...it's getting easier, although there are so many private planes going in that the big planes with supplies are being held up. THAT needs to be stopped immediately. But it means someone takes charge without regard to politics. heh. we'll see if that happens. 

The other problem with air drops is people will mob them. and it's really hard to find an open space in Port au Prince. if it's open, it's covered with people. 

they're getting it together on the ground.


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## soulsurvivor (Jul 4, 2004)

Links available to 2 who are in Port au Prince:
Amber's blog
http://rightsbasedhaiti.wordpress.com/
Contact Melinda
http://twitter.com/melindayiti

One eyewitness report stated that the ocean receded a half mile from the coast by the area known as Jacmel during the large earthquake, but returned to normal after that passed. They're still having strong aftershocks, one this morning that was a 5.0 and located directly under Port au Prince. Indications are that everyone is living outside now due to the instability of the structures.

It should be better for the survivors today due to the US military getting the aircraft carrier close to shore and allowing the helicopters to assist with supply distribution. 

The International Red Cross has an online searchable link for families trying to locate survivors:
http://www.familylinks.icrc.org/WFL_HTI.NSF/bottin!OpenView&Start=448


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## Common Tator (Feb 19, 2008)

Wisconsin Ann, I don't understand what you are disagreeing with me about. If you take issue with California's earthquake codes, look at Japan. They suffer huge earthquakes with relatively little damage or loss of life. They survive because they adapted their building codes to withstand earthquakes.

I posted because I have seen posters here from areas with no building codes. I believe that preparing the home to withstand a potential SHTF scenario is a prep item that could easily be overlooked. It could mean the difference between surviving a major earthquake with a few items knocked off the shelves, or laying dead or dying in a pile of rubble that was your home. 

My home in the burbs was built to code in 1964, bolted to the foundation and has survived every earthquake since then without damage. My house at the ranch was built in the 30's, and retrofitted to current code, bolted to the foundation. This was done with volunteer labor when it was a boy scout camp. It has also survived every quake without damage, including the Big Bear quake with the epicenter only about a mile from the house.

Haiti's quake, like other quakes in third world countries had massive damage because they are still building with unreinforced brick, adobe, cement block. The mortar crumbles and the buildings collapse.

So please explain to me where I am wrong.


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## Wisconsin Ann (Feb 27, 2007)

Good news starting to come out of Haiti. While there are small pockets of looting, most people are calm and hopeful. They're still pulling bodies and living folks out of hte rubble, but they have more medical supplies, more medical personnel on the ground working. 

Roads are being cleared. There is still no sign of heavy moving equipment...but there isn't much of that in the country to begin with, so....

The US airforce and army are on the ground and patrolling. Setting up refugee sites. Army hospitals. Food and supplies and money is starting to pour in. France has sent search and rescue teams, as have other countries. Whole groups of firefighters have landed on the island.

There are Haitian police on the streets patrolling. 

It's interesting...some of the reporters are all over the "oh my god...there's no food, no water" and then you'll get a report that says "they have food and water..it's coming in from the outside. There are only a few spots of anger and frustration showing" :shrug:

Bad news...the haitian government said just now that they've buried over 45,000 so far, some mass graves...and there are over 100,000 still in the streets. 

10,000 US troops going in by Monday for PeaceKeeping function.

Watching the people cope with it all is fascinating. Even tho it's horribly impoverished...many are simply sharing what they have. Groups sending members into the collapsed homes to find survivors or bodies...but also to find what food they can and stockpiling it in a central location. Babies being taken care of by a group of women while the others go out and help move rubble.

There are apparently roaming gangs that are looting...but then Haiti had roving gangs who looted BEFORE the earthquake (VERY high crime rate). What amazes me is there is looting reported on the other side of the Island where there was no damage from the earthquake.


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## AngieM2 (May 10, 2002)

http://www.homesteadingtoday.com/showthread.php?t=338215

See Post #3 from ChristyACB - it explains a lot of what is happening to get help down there.

Angie


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## soulsurvivor (Jul 4, 2004)

Neighboring Dominican Republic sent convoys of heavy equipment, sanitation and medical supplies, and trucks carrying hot meals into Haiti today. They cleared blocked roads and the meal trucks carried enough hot meals to serve 10 thousand each. And they're doing it again tomorrow and everyday to come until the needs no longer exist. If you're watching news coverage from Haiti and see these giant yellow trucks, those are the meal trucks coming in from DRepublic.


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## Wisconsin Ann (Feb 27, 2007)

Tell ya what tho...they can't be starving. There was an incident this morning with a food distribution thing...what they call "crackers", which are actually high nutrient bar like things....UN I think it was passing them out, when someone saw the "packed on" date of late 2008. That person apparently thought that was an expiration date, and thru it on the ground, and started yelling to everyone not to eat them..they were bad...and a mini riot ensued with people stomping the food into the ground because they thought it was past it's expiration date. 

If you're starving, you don't turn down packaged food because it's gone past it's expiration date. I don't care if it's a DECADE past. 

This incident did show, however, how just ONE PERSON can turn things into a very bad situation and quickly. Of course... one STRONG WILLED person (or persuasive) can turn a bad situation into calm, too.


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## TheMartianChick (May 26, 2009)

I think that the misunderstanding about the food stems from a fear that it was some kind of trap to kill them. It is a kind of sad truth that there are always rumors (in the midst of disaster) of some sort of conspiracy.


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## cornbread (Jul 4, 2005)

Time to Pay Attention and Learn

What has already happened to Haiti, and what's about to happen, can serve as teaching points for all of us.

. Everyone is aware of the fault lines on the west coast but imagine if the New Madrid fault (just south of St. Louis) let go and destroyed both rail and Interstate travel, destroyed pipelines and closed the Mississippi to navigation? 

The last quake their in 1811-12, was the largest recorded in our history.

The Haitians have been without shelter, food, water and medical supplies for almost four days now. While relief is poring in, it is not getting to where it is needed fast enough. 

I would expect major civil disturbances beginning today, just like they occurred on the 4th day after Katrina.

We all need to watch what is happening in Haiti and learn from our observations because that is exactly what could happen here in a similar breakdown of government and services.


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## margoC (Jul 26, 2007)

Haiti has been a lost cause long before the earthquake hit.


Did you know the Dominican Republic is on the same island? What have you heard about the DR lately? 


There are many things to learn about haiti, the earthquake is just further down on the list. What till you have a new community of haitians living next to you, an earthquake will be the furtherest thing from your mind.


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## Wisconsin Ann (Feb 27, 2007)

er...there's quite a long thread on this topic....lots of information there...


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## FarmerChick (Dec 28, 2009)

no matter what the disaster it takes time to get supplies into devasted areas.

nothing can happen in one day---it just can't on an unbelieveably large scale.

Any city building on major fault lines, etc. or know of their definite possible natural disasters should have local plans in existence. If you can strike and help from inside, if at all possible, have mulitpile scenarios of help, then you are way above the situation hopefully and can start immediate help.

Haiti---pfft....I don't know what is up with Haiti. talk about a country going absolutely no where. I don't know what will help them honestly. I guess some little country has to be last on the list of cruddy countries?? There is bound to be some country that never progresses??


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## AngieM2 (May 10, 2002)

Cornbread's post and next posts to this one was a separate thread that was merged to this one.
Angie


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## woodsy (Oct 13, 2008)

I didn't realize that area was over a fault line until i looked it up on the world earthquake fault line map, Very tragic indeed, beyond comprehension.


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## PyroDon (Jul 30, 2006)

so what have you learned from watching coverage ?
that all the prepping buried in the basement and root celler will be gone ? buried under the rubble.
what Ive seen and noticed .
That very few people have even the barest knowledge of first aid .
That even fewer know enough to boil water before drinking.
That many prefer to lay and wait for help rather than actively try to help themselves .
What this and other disasters have shown over and over is that when all else is lost Knowledge is what will be the most important prep you can possibly have .
Basic knowledge of first aid will be esential , as will knowledge of preventing infection and water born disease .
How many that are now dying could have been saved had a few known first aid .
the simple rule of dont put your eggs all in one basket. 
Your house falls down or burns and all your supplies are lost.
storing all your supplies in one place is a fools errand .
We see many posts concerning bug out bags , Thats cool and a good idea . but when considering storage for supplies one might be wise to consider something like an enclosed trailor as well for at least some of them


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## TheMartianChick (May 26, 2009)

PyroDon said:


> so what have you learned from watching coverage ?
> that all the prepping buried in the basement and root celler will be gone ? buried under the rubble.
> what Ive seen and noticed .
> That very few people have even the barest knowledge of first aid .
> ...


Indeed, those are the lessons that I'm learning. I keep some things at work for emergencies, but I don't keep a full BOB there. Nor do I drive to work everyday. Even a BOB is no good unless you carry it everywhere that you go. There is a chance that something could happen and I would be caught inside my office building at work without preps. I know that my coworkers and I would have enough food to last comfortably for about 3 days. We are better set for water because we have a water cooler and extra 5 gal water bottles.


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## Pink_Carnation (Apr 21, 2006)

What I have learned...preps don't do any good if you are dead and/or they are buried. Water is only as reliable as the containers and source is. Help might not come...or it will come later. When buildings go down falling bricks and such can damage anything.


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## FarmerChick (Dec 28, 2009)

yea I guess to learn and practice our survival type situations---you gotta live initially thru the disaster!


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## wyld thang (Nov 16, 2005)

you know, something I've observed from all these Haiti threads is who(HT'rs, it's quite predicatable) reacts with emotion and sentiment and who reacts with a problem id and solving mindset(but, I'm also fairly sure I can say with no less compassion). Of course degrees of grey, and dont' want to get in a slapfest on who's nicer or meaner. 

My point is that a clear head and the ability to set aside one's fears and biases and Goldilocks preferences is golden. I'm sure not an emotional ice queen, but I also appreciate and respect the folks who can run cold when needed to make important decisions and lead. Along the lines of knowledge like Pyro was saying.

I'm trying to be careful here, but, just saying, that in my experience, the people who appear to be cold hearted and socially inept in times of trouble(ie they are'nt freaking out like the rest of us), they are the ones that act well and save the day. 

THe shooting has started today BTW
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/01/16/dominican-aid-workers-sho_n_426067.html

Some people have compared Haiti to New Orleans, I'll say it's more like Mogadishu. 

(see how I used HUffpo for your protection:croc


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

> they could start evacuating the survivors just like they did in Katrina.


To do it "just like Katrina" would mean moving them to another city in HAITI, and NOT shipping them to another country.


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## AngieM2 (May 10, 2002)

I'm seeing on CNN just now that Missouri and Colorado have had Haitian orphans coming to their new homes. These were ongoing adoptions, just emergency visas - in other words, the red tape got cut.

Some good news out of this mess.


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## Wisconsin Ann (Feb 27, 2007)

I saw an interview with the commander of distribution at the airport for the US Army. He said that the majority of the distribution is being done from a large ship in the harbor, using helicopters. Since wheeled vehicles are often a liability for the moment, it's simply a case of fly into an area, drop down, offload the pallets. They are being mobbed when they land, but it's usually not violent. They expect a large change in things (as in everything going more smoothly/quickly) on Monday when the large hospital ship and it's, er, flotilla arrives. 

and they're still finding survivors in the rubble. They pulled a very young girl out after 4 days in the rubble. The neighbors had heard cries...the rescuers couldn't hear anything...but the rescue dogs (2 of them) alerted on a spot and the teams started digging. They found her...dehydrated, but alert...no broken bones. They said she'll be just fine. ... Simply amazing.


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## FarmerChick (Dec 28, 2009)

rescue search dogs. now there is a heaven sent trained animal!


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## soulsurvivor (Jul 4, 2004)

Bearfootfarm said:


> To do it "just like Katrina" would mean moving them to another city in HAITI, and NOT shipping them to another country.


In the reading I've done about Haiti, there are no other large cities aside from Port au Prince and its suburbs in the nation of Haiti. There are smaller cities throughout the country, but all of those were just as destroyed as the capitol city, and are still waiting for a first sign of aid, as they haven't received anything. 

A front page story on msn.com last night was about this, and said that the residents of the smaller towns are arming themselves with machetes and guarding against other towns' residents possibly coming and attacking them. These towns are pretty much cut off with no communication, no food source, no heavy equipment to clear roads/buildings, and no water or supplies. 

Everyone there is sleeping outside still due to the number of earthquakes that have happened since the main quake hit on Tuesday. Buildings and structures are still collapsing. One geologist stated that there were 49 earthquakes registering at a 4.0 or above that hit Haiti from Tuesday to Wednesday night. The last registered quake was Saturday morning. I, myself, couldn't imagine living through what these people have and continue to endure. I would be all about getting me and my loved ones outside of the area, however I could make that happen. 

It was stated in one news article that a wealthy warehouse owner had chartered a private jet and flew himself and 17 of his family to Miami. Most of the wealthy have left Haiti. Rather than be critical of the wealthy for leaving, I think we could all learn a lesson that it's important to move from an unsafe area if you want to be safe and stay alive. Take as many as you can with you when you do move. 

Rather than pour money into a still unsafe environment, use the funds to transport survivors to a safer location, wherever that's determined to be, but by all means, do it soon to save lives. The land isn't going anywhere and will still be there when conditions are safer for human habitation.


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## TheMartianChick (May 26, 2009)

Haiti was still having earthquakes as recently as yesterday (Sunday) and they seem to be in the 4.6 - 4.7 range.

http://earthquake.usgs.gov/earthquakes/recenteqsww/Quakes/quakes_all.html


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## cast iron (Oct 4, 2004)

soulsurvivor said:


> A front page story on msn.com last night was about this, and said that the residents of the smaller towns are arming themselves with machetes and guarding against other towns' residents possibly coming and attacking them. These towns are pretty much cut off with no communication, no food source, no heavy equipment to clear roads/buildings, and no water or supplies.


Not surprising, that seems to be how things progress in disasters of this magnitude. The bottom line is people will need to be able to protect what they have or they may not have it for long.

Some callers to the local radio show today suggested that a gun be added to the .gov recommended "three days, three ways" recommended survival list that they are always touting. Certainly an extreme measure for a three day power outage of course, but do we really think the humans of the U.S.A would react any different under the same circumstances? People will do whatever it takes to make sure their families are taken care of, and extreme hunger or sickness just makes things worse as it clouds judgment and the decision making process.

In the final analysis, under these circumstances, what IS the difference between 'looting' and 'obtaining things necessary for survival'??

Taking a tv set from an unguarded store = 'looting'

Taking a couple gallons of water or some crackers from an unguarded store = 'survival' ???


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## PyroDon (Jul 30, 2006)

Wayne02 said:


> In the final analysis, under these circumstances, what IS the difference between 'looting' and 'obtaining things necessary for survival'??
> 
> Taking a tv set from an unguarded store = 'looting'
> 
> Taking a couple gallons of water or some crackers from an unguarded store = 'survival' ???


For some there seems to be no line . 
Its better to let the water and crackers be destroyed in the clean up rather than have some one dying take them and survive. 
\Some would go so far as to kill a person for attempting to salvage what will end up being put in a land fill


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## wyld thang (Nov 16, 2005)

ok, I read an article that said garment workers/tailors were being taught to suture wounds, and auto mechanics were being taught to set bones. I thought this was really interesting putting to people to work with certain skills for certain medical procedures. Does anybody know if this is a brand new thing or something planned from a playbook, and also if you know all about this it would be interesting to know what other professions/skills are routed what ways?

I think it sounds ingenious?


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## zito (Dec 21, 2006)

wyld thang said:


> ok, I read an article that said garment workers/tailors were being taught to suture wounds, *and auto mechanics were being taught to set bones.*


"What'ya mean, you can't get that nut/bolt undone? Get a bigger hammer and let'er rip!... or use the torches!"...  Sure, I think having mechanics doing medical stuff is an awesome idea


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## ovsfarm (Jan 14, 2003)

I keep seeing comments here about evacuating Haitians or transporting them to other locations. Am I imagining things or weren't there multiple threads here on this very site about how none of us were going to buckle under to government sponsored evacuations, which were likened to death marches and trips to refugee prisons? Why would it be okay to grab up all the Haitians, with or without their consent, and put them all elsewhere when we would refuse to stand for the same treatment?

I definitely don't have any answers for Haiti. But it surprises me to see how the tune seems to have changed around here, so long as it's not us involved.


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

> Rather than pour money into a still unsafe environment, use the funds to *transport survivors to a safer location*, wherever that's determined to be, but by all means, do it soon to save lives. The land isn't going anywhere and will still be there when conditions are safer for human habitation.


Just where do you move a few MILLION homeless people?

Better to send *supplies *and let THEM start rebuilding in THEIR country, than to ship them to another country, and have no labor in Haiti to do the work


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## wyld thang (Nov 16, 2005)

zito said:


> "What'ya mean, you can't get that nut/bolt undone? Get a bigger hammer and let'er rip!... or use the torches!"...  Sure, I think having mechanics doing medical stuff is an awesome idea


I"m just saying that's what the article said. It does bring up a point though, there are huge numbers of people with bones to set, I'm sure the docs do the more difficult ones, but there are simpler breaks someone with a little know how can do(like in the olden days). May make the difference between a bad limp or no walky at all--time is of the essence. Sure it sounds whacked, but then again auto mech in the third world have a lot more Red Green skillz than you might know:goodjob:

seriously, would any of us know how to set a bone? seems like it would be a good thing to "bone" up on,eh? There was a book about a woman homesteader who got stranded in the ALaskan bush(1950's? her hub and son had gone into town and something happened can't remember exactly, but she was pregnant to boot) she broke her arm, set it herself, delivered her baby herself, spent the winter alone, came thru fine--just sayin

ALl I know is bones have a time window where they need to be set, the ends are wanting to knit together(our bodies are set up this way to heal) and if it's not set you are really screwed(at least that's the impression I get). A bad setting is better than nothing at all, at least you can break it and start over(if you have surgery available that is). 

Besides, successful mechanics are good with their hands and have a good memory for how something fits together. If yours breaks your nuts with a hammer time to get a new one. (or uh, do it yourself?)


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## soulsurvivor (Jul 4, 2004)

Bearfootfarm said:


> Just where do you move a few MILLION homeless people?
> 
> Better to send *supplies *and let THEM start rebuilding in THEIR country, than to ship them to another country, and have no labor in Haiti to do the work


However it's determined, but the children and the elderly need special attention that's going to be difficult to provide in the best of circumstances, and I certainly don't see this portion of the population rendering assistance at rebuilding.

I read another article on msn.com last night that talked about how the military was using their returning flights to the US to fly Haitians to safety at different military facilities here in the US. I don't know how they determined who was going to board these flights, but they were doing it. I think that every flight leaving there should be full of Haitians needing a safer temporary location to stay, regardless of what country that would be. The focus doesn't have to be long term; just long enough to make for safer living conditions in their home country. 

Besides, it should make it easier for the volunteers and people left there to begin the long process of cleaning up demolished structures if there are less people getting in the way of that happening. 

And they're real lucky the rainy season has held off. I understand the Haitians have lived through adverse conditions their entire lives, but this is different and far more extreme than even they can survive. No one is a super human and shouldn't be expected to be that. If the focus is to save human life, then that goal should carry through in every decision made for assistance. 

And I'm not just making a case for the Haitians. It's a truth that will cover every human disaster from this point forward regardless of which country is hit with adversity. As a human earth population, we either advocate for human life or we don't. I hope we do that with the understanding that we're also speaking for what we want in return for ourselves and our loved ones.


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## FarmerChick (Dec 28, 2009)

I also read that the Haitian Govt. is sending out warnings for all people who try to boat it to America are going to be for big trouble.

here is part of the article:
U.S. and Haitian officials warned

Haitians against trying to reach the United States by boat. Haiti's ambassador in Washington, Raymond Joseph, recorded a message in Creole to his countrymen, urging them not to leave. 

"If you think you will reach the U.S. and all the doors will be wide open to you, that's not at all the case," Joseph said, according to a transcript on America.gov, a State Department Web site. "And they will intercept you right on the water and send you back home where you came from."


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## Wisconsin Ann (Feb 27, 2007)

There was a reporter this morning showing how in some of the areas things are getting back to normal...houses gone, but the people are scavenging what they can and building "houses". There are shops being set up with food and items for sale. They are fishing, clamming, hunting for meats and selling. There are people still going out to the outskirts and pulling in fruit and vegetables from the land. Selling goods and services in the marketplace. Not at outrageous prices, but at normal everyday prices.

The looting is confined to a small area of downtown Port au prince, according to CBS, and some of hte FOX and CNN reporters.. But since it's hard to get to anywhere else...and because reporters LOVE to make things really bad look even worse...all we get is the looting pictures  

The other thing I saw today was a reporter up on a "mountain" top in/near Port au Prince. The army has been flying the food to the top of this huge hill, and using that as a distribution point. Now, because it's working so well, OTHER agencies are starting to set up distributions centers there, as well. And its working GREAT. No rushing, no pushing no violence. People just come up the hill, get what they need, and go back down into the city. Some of the local elders/leaders are going up to get food for their neighborhood...and setting up their own distribution centers back in their own parks/centers. 

Apparently, the US aide distribution whatever they were called who had been given the task of actually distributing the food, decided to let the Army do it's thing instead of interfering. heh. Go figure.


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## Wisconsin Ann (Feb 27, 2007)

I think you will find that those on any flights back to the states are going to hospitals, or perhaps the children to orphanages. There's been a lot of talk on the news casts about how they've sent the worst off to stateside hospitals where they can be treated. 

oh! about broken bones. .... I can set a bone on a simple fracture. it's not hard...just hard on the nerves.<shudder> Compound fractures...wow...not sure I'd want to tackle that, but if there was no one else and you could not see any way of getting help.....


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## FarmerChick (Dec 28, 2009)

token kids and token medical cases always result from large disasters like this. being flown out for help in another country.

It is only a few, the millions are left to carry on their existence.


Sure it will go back to business as usual. Any society must.


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## soulsurvivor (Jul 4, 2004)

According to video featuring the return flights, Brian Williams reported from onboard a US cargo plane that was taking both US citizens and Haitian refugees to the US. They were flying into the McQuire(sp?) Air Force base in New Jersey. This is where the Haitian citizens onboard that particular flight were being housed. The US military has established what it defines as an "air bridge" to fly Haitian citizens to the US for temporary housing. They're using all the emptied cargo planes that are returning to the US to do this. 

There was another earthquake yesterday morning offshore of Haiti that was first registered at 6.1 and later downgraded to a 5.9. It was enough ground force to destroy 7 buildings outside of PAP and cause some more mangled nerves for the survivors. 

There's a Haitian-American restaurant owner that's serving a thousand free meals daily to survivors. There's a video about this on the msn.com site. The owner said that he was there to stay and help rebuild the country no matter what it took. He had sent his wife and children to stay with family in Florida, but he said he was needed more in Haiti and had decided to stay.


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## Wisconsin Ann (Feb 27, 2007)

Thinking about it...flying some of the hundreds of thousands of homeless to the US is a good idea. Fewer people on the island means fewer to find housing, water and food for. As long as they have some sort of housing for them here. 

Tricky road to follow tho.


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## cornbread (Jul 4, 2005)

Thinking about it...flying some of the hundreds of thousands of homeless to the US is a good idea. Fewer people on the island means fewer to find housing, water and food for. As long as they have some sort of housing for them here. 


Yes but will they ever go back home?


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## cast iron (Oct 4, 2004)

So, what other things have we learned that can possibly be applied to a disaster in the states or Canada at the individual, family, or local community level?


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## naturelover (Jun 6, 2006)

Wayne02 said:


> So, what other things have we learned that can possibly be applied to a disaster in the states or Canada at the individual, family, or local community level?


In another thread on GC I had posted the communications from a person who was in Haiti flying in people and supplies for a week. Here is his last report from yesterday which I will post here, something to learn from:

_"Hi, I just got back home from Haiti._
_The disaster was unlike most. Far worse of all we have assisted with._

_The one thing I took away was that even if you had all your emergency supplies, when its buried under a ton of debris, it does you no good. Those that faired better in survival mode was those who had an alternative to their house. Tons of emergency food and water, blankets, tents, equipment, and medical supplies were destroyed when the building collapsed on all the supplies. But people with small outbuildings for storage could get to their stored water and food._

_if there was one thing that created the biggest problem and it was communications. PaP was without any communications ability so nobody knew what to do, where to go and where family was. people walked down one street looking for family while the family was looking down the opposite street looking for them. What they say, two ships passing in the night?_

_But even as bad as it is, had this been in a regular US city, it would have been a disaster unlike anything we could imagine. Haiti did not have the need to depend on every modern convinience. How many people you know in your city who could survive one day without their ipod or blackberry, much less water, food, or shelter._

_Katrina then, Haiti now, your city/town tommorrow? Are you prepared?"_

_._


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## soulsurvivor (Jul 4, 2004)

cornbread said:


> Thinking about it...flying some of the hundreds of thousands of homeless to the US is a good idea. Fewer people on the island means fewer to find housing, water and food for. As long as they have some sort of housing for them here.
> 
> 
> Yes but will they ever go back home?


The US military is in charge of this temporary housing and from what I can find out, most of that housing is being provided on the military bases. I don't perceive they'll lose track of the refugees. Do you?


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