# craigslisting, lovely mare



## Waiting Falcon (Nov 25, 2010)

http://springfield.craigslist.org/grd/4653570212.html


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## aoconnor1 (Jun 19, 2014)

Waiting Falcon said:


> http://springfield.craigslist.org/grd/4653570212.html


Wow! If I were in the market I would be looking at her seriously. Very pretty mare


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## fffarmergirl (Oct 9, 2008)

Wow - nice horse.


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## harvestmoon1964 (Apr 24, 2014)

Not a mare I would be breeding.


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## haypoint (Oct 4, 2006)

"Being sold as a mare in foal only" What does that mean? No live foal guarantee. perhaps? Does that mean foaling trouble or just no loose ends after the sale?
Hind leg looks too straight and can't see how straight the other one is. But from what I can see, pretty horse.


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## DamnearaFarm (Sep 27, 2007)

'Bout all I can say good about her is that she has nice markings.


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## harvestmoon1964 (Apr 24, 2014)

pretty markings but very long back, common head and looks to be post legged.


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## Waiting Falcon (Nov 25, 2010)

Maybe she can not be ridden ? Notice she has a stud chain over her nose and it had been popped just before the the shutter engaged?


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## MDKatie (Dec 13, 2010)

Georgian Grande? Is that the labradoodle of the horse world?


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## RubyJane (Apr 23, 2014)

MDKatie said:


> Georgian Grande? Is that the labradoodle of the horse world?


You'd think they could just call it a Saddlebred/Friesian cross, wouldn't you?


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## Molly Mckee (Jul 8, 2006)

One thing I learned years ago is to never judge a horse by a still photo, especially an amateur one. If I was looking for a Saddlebred mare I would call about her.


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## DamnearaFarm (Sep 27, 2007)

That's what I saw too, Harvest. Very long back for a cross.


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## aoconnor1 (Jun 19, 2014)

haypoint said:


> "Being sold as a mare in foal only" What does that mean? No live foal guarantee. perhaps? Does that mean foaling trouble or just no loose ends after the sale?
> Hind leg looks too straight and can't see how straight the other one is. But from what I can see, pretty horse.


Often, it means they may or may not be broke, sound, etc, and the only thing they will say for sure is that the mare is in foal!

She is pretty.


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## wr (Aug 10, 2003)

haypoint said:


> "Being sold as a mare in foal only" What does that mean? No live foal guarantee. perhaps? Does that mean foaling trouble or just no loose ends after the sale?
> Hind leg looks too straight and can't see how straight the other one is. But from what I can see, pretty horse.



I would think it means she was bred at the time of sale with no live foal guarantee of any kind but they may be indicating she's only broodmare sound or broodmare trained.


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## Joshie (Dec 8, 2008)

One thing that irks me about ads like this is that Paint is a breed, not a color. Is the horse a three way cross or is she a pinto?


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## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

Joshie said:


> One thing that irks me about ads like this is that Paint is a breed, not a color. Is the horse a three way cross or is she a pinto?


She's not registered, so she's a pinto saddlebred, or saddlebred-type.


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## wr (Aug 10, 2003)

The thing that usually frustrates me about ads like this is that they are often lacking in information simply because the current owners lack knowledge. That often results in a horse falling into another inexperienced owner's hands.


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## where I want to (Oct 28, 2008)

She has a Saddlebred head- not flashy but not coarse either. It's hard to tell the length of her back because the pictures were both taken from the front- which tends to make me suspicious. Her back legs are not the straightest. 

I loved Saddlebreds when I was younger. Fun and large movers. A good moving Saddlebred can stop traffic. I know- my horses did. 

But I have yet to see a Saddlebred cross that I like. Some are very pretty but have tended to be flakes. What I loved about the Saddlebred disposition was the hotness combined with a strong desire to cooperate. And the cooperate part seems to get lost when crossed.

The Saddlebred conformation is also at the edge of useful too. The extremely high neck carriage and flexibilty that gives them their out sized movement can move into a weak back and sloppy gaits when crossed.


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## harvestmoon1964 (Apr 24, 2014)

where I want to said:


> She has a Saddlebred head- not flashy but not coarse either. It's hard to tell the length of her back because the pictures were both taken from the front- which tends to make me suspicious. Her back legs are not the straightest.
> 
> I loved Saddlebreds when I was younger. Fun and large movers. A good moving Saddlebred can stop traffic. I know- my horses did.
> 
> ...


The length of her back is very apparent from the pictures and it is quite long which is a problem with many Saddlebreds because of breeding for the "swan neck". 
I have seen a couple of Saddlebred crosses I've liked but they were bred from SBs with good conformation and shorter backs and good minds. I do find her head fairly coarse, even for a Saddlebred.


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## Molly Mckee (Jul 8, 2006)

I took the wording to mean she was a paint colored saddlebred, not a cross. The picture would tend to lengthen her back, and I don't think you get enough a good view of her legs to learn much. I doubt that anyone is trying to mislead, I would guess they just aren't a horse photographer.


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## where I want to (Oct 28, 2008)

harvestmoon1964 said:


> The length of her back is very apparent from the pictures and it is quite long which is a problem with many Saddlebreds because of breeding for the "swan neck".
> I have seen a couple of Saddlebred crosses I've liked but they were bred from SBs with good conformation and shorter backs and good minds. I do find her head fairly coarse, even for a Saddlebred.


Actually went back and looked again. There is an non resolvable disagreement. Not about whether a long back and high set neck is a problem - it is. I just don't see that long a back.

You wouldn't be an Arab fancier by chance?


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## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

MDKatie said:


> Georgian Grande? Is that the labradoodle of the horse world?


I just have to say that this is the perfect comparison. Thank you. :happy2:


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## Joshie (Dec 8, 2008)

Irish Pixie said:


> She's not registered, so she's a pinto saddlebred, or saddlebred-type.


Exactly. Spotted horses aren't necessarily (or even usually) Paints. Paints don't even always have spots.


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## Joshie (Dec 8, 2008)

Molly Mckee said:


> I took the wording to mean she was a paint colored saddlebred, not a cross.


I figured that the seller was saying the horse is paint-colored. The problem is that there really isn't such a thing. Paint is not a color; it is a breed. We used to have a Paint out of beautiful stud and dam. The boy had nary a spot. Spotted horses are called pintos. Paints may or may not be spotted. Many breeds like QHs, Saddlebreds, and TBs can be spotted.

It is just one of those things that irks me. Guess we all have things that do so. Doesn't make a big deal but it I would ask a seller what they mean by paint.


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## wr (Aug 10, 2003)

Right or wrong, some terms are regional and I wouldn't get too upset about someone thinking a colour pattern is paint instead of pinto.


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## Molly Mckee (Jul 8, 2006)

The ad says paint. I've heard them mixed up all the time and all caps makes it harder to understand. Maybe someone might call and ask, if they really want to know what they mean in the ad.


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## aoconnor1 (Jun 19, 2014)

After going back and reading the ad again, I believe the owner means the mare is confirmed in foal but no live birth guarantee. The owner already stated the mare is sound and rides, the only other option for the mare in foal designation is that the mare was preg checked positive and "should" throw a live foal in June next year, but no guarantee that it will be a live foal.


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## haypoint (Oct 4, 2006)

After a bit of thought, I think I understand the ad. After lots of information given, don't blame them if she is unrideable, after all, you just bought a pregnant mare, that is all and it was made clear in the ad. 
"Turns on a dime" sometimes means, "Will leave you in the dirt"


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## where I want to (Oct 28, 2008)

haypoint said:


> After a bit of thought, I think I understand the ad. After lots of information given, don't blame them if she is unrideable, after all, you just bought a pregnant mare, that is all and it was made clear in the ad.
> "Turns on a dime" sometimes means, "Will leave you in the dirt"


My first Saddlebred could disappear from underneath you so fast it was like a Wiley E Coyote cartoon. You sort of hung in mid air until it penetrated your brain you weren't sitting on anything anymore.
Also, if you weren't up and posting on that first trot step, you could find yourself sliding over the cantle. When he moved, he really moved.


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## starjj (May 2, 2005)

Wow I am far from an expert in judging confirmation but some more knowledgeable people here confirmed my first opinion: long back and I was not crazy about the head either.


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## GrannyCarol (Mar 23, 2005)

The ad clearly states she is guaranteed in foal in the first line. It looks like they are not selling her as a riding horse, in spite of supposedly being broke - I guess you'd have to ask. 

I don't mind the Saddlebred neck and head, that is the type for the breed. If you don't want a Saddlebred, then she's not for you, that's all. I wouldn't go for that type personally. I don't know about the length of back, I'm not clever enough to tell from an iffy photo, she seems to be pretty and normal Saddlebred type to me, but I'm no expert in the breed.


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## 1sttimemom (Mar 1, 2005)

Well, I worked at a saddlebred barn for a short time when I was in my late teens (a few yrs ago!). This mare looks fairly typical average for that breed. They are built quite diff from your average stock or even hunter type horse. The pic is poor for showing conformation, it's at a terrible angle and mare is standing weird not square. As for the lead being "popped" it could have been anything not just punishing her for behavior problems. Heck, could have shaken a lead to get attention and ears up. The ad does say broke to ride for experienced rider and I would guess she is on the hot side vs very calm. But again just a guess! The saddlebreds I worked around were all people lovers even tho rather spicey. The only one who was a total freak out and had a mean streak was actually an arab cross (National Show HOrse) who was just plain crazy altho his dam was an absolute doll and a winning eng pleasure and fine harness mare in her show days. Maybe his arab sire was a ---- or just was a bad cross??? I can say having only ridden common stock type horses for the most part the first time I rode that mare and collected her up into a trot I about lost my face cuz her head when that far up and wow it was weird! But that is what they are bred and trained for. To say they are not useful is not true, some make wonderful dressage and driving horses and as a flashy show horse there is about no comparison. You just have to remember to compare apples to apples. A TB race horse might not be useful to someone who wants a draft horse either and a QH probably would look pretty funny in a ring full of fine harness show horses. Personally, it's not for me but some people really do enjoy showing and not all show people are abusive. :shrug:

The crossbred upcoming foal is one of those "designer" crosses that was a fab for a while and I think had it's own registry for what it's worth. There is also a Fresian sport horse reg for partbreds.


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## where I want to (Oct 28, 2008)

This post brought up some old irritations from the days when I had Saddlebreds. People favoring other breeds would make snarky remarks about the same two things- "I don't think I could live with such an ugly head" and "what a long back" just before they started asking how to get that kind of motion out of their horses as if was a magic training trick. 
Well, as the old remark goes," no one rides on a horse's head. Or at least they hadn't ought to." I happen to like a straight profile, even one tending to long. The more hugging length on a horse's head, the better I like it.
And, if you want a horse to move like a Saddlebred, then buy a Saddlebred.
So many want the action of a Saddlebred grafted onto their horses without the "liabilties" of the breed. Some tried with weighted shoes and action devices to create more action.
Some tried crosses where they breed for the best of both. The trouble is, IMO, unlike the Arab who nicks well with most other breeds, the Saddlebred does not seem to cross well. Maybe someone will come up with a reliable good cross but I've yet to see it. The National Show Horse looked good but everyone I've known seemed to have behavior issues in spades. 
But people keep trying, so maybe one day they'll succeed in finding that cross that gives them the pizzazz in the gait without the things they don't want.


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## fffarmergirl (Oct 9, 2008)

Of course I'm no expert and I could be doing this incorrectly, but when I look at her I see she has a long underline which gives the illusion of a long back but then when you measure from croup to withers it's no more than 1/3 of her total body length. Am I measuring wrong? I guess heads are a matter of taste - her head looks beautiful to me.

I really like the way she looks. Of course - every day I see a horse I like the looks of. There are so many nice ones out there, who would just be pasture pets if I brought them home because I don't have time for another project - and no use for a pregnant mare.


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## where I want to (Oct 28, 2008)

fffarmergirl said:


> Of course I'm no expert and I could be doing this incorrectly, but when I look at her I see she has a long underline which gives the illusion of a long back but then when you measure from croup to withers it's no more than 1/3 of her total body length. Am I measuring wrong? I guess heads are a matter of taste - her head looks beautiful to me.
> 
> I really like the way she looks. Of course - every day I see a horse I like the looks of. There are so many nice ones out there, who would just be pasture pets if I brought them home because I don't have time for another project - and no use for a pregnant mare.


You have probably let loose a string of differing opinions. I like to look at the distance between the end of the withers to the sacroiliac joint. It is sometimes hard to read a back because of differences in the length to the point of the hip and steepness of croup, and in truth, the shoulder attachment effects the impression of back length..
But having said that, I have ridden short backed horses who couldn't lift themselves up and long backed ones who had no trouble, so in the end it is more the way the parts hang together than the quality of any one point. The one thing almost universal with Saddlebreds is the highpoint of attachment of the neck. It is not even the high carriage of the neck as much as this high set into the neck that allows them to get front end action while not having to actually lift it through the effort of collection from the rear. Not having to engage the rear so much then allows high action in the back simultaneously with the front. 
But this is a trade off in that the natural carriage of the Saddlebred can easily be distorted into a hollow back. They have to be ridden much more carefully when looking for collection.


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## njenner (Jul 15, 2013)

a 9 year old mare should not need a stud chain to be photographed. Never buy for color; temperament is always the number 1 criteria; then movement; then conformation. Just my two bits worth (and 40 years of horses and 25 years of riding/showing dressage horses)


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