# horse hay vs cow hay??



## nans31 (Jul 8, 2002)

I see hay listed for sale around here as "great horse hay" or "perfect cow hay" what is the difference in the two?
nan


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## RdoubleD (Oct 12, 2004)

Most of the time the cow hay is moldy or sour. I have cows and horses, from what I have seen the cows will waste more of the cow then if they just ate horse quality hay. So what I do is, look at the price, if the cows are going to waste it and the price break is not much different then if I purchased horse hay I will purchase horse hay.

What part of WA. are you in? Northwest or Eastern? If you are in the NW part I have several hay people that I work with and can hook you up for some resonable priced hay.


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## nans31 (Jul 8, 2002)

I'm near Longview, and am willing to drive a ways to get some good hay. I'm not wanting any moldy, damp, or sour hay, I'd love to hear what hay you get.
nan


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## pygmywombat (Sep 7, 2002)

It seems to vary from area to area. If you are in a place big on horses, horse hay is considered the high quality stuff. If you are in an area with lots of dairy cattle, cow hay is the best. Where I live, there are lots of horses and cows, so both tend to be good hay. 

Horse hay here is plain grasses- timothy, bermuda, etc.

Cow hay is a bigger mix with clovers and alfalfa in it. They can also eat the plainer horse type hays, but like a variety more.

Neither animal should be given only moldy, sour hay as their only food option. If I get a bad bale I toss it outside and let the cow eat what she wants, alongside her good hay. 

Lactating cows need good hay to keep up with the massive demands making milk puts on their bodies. Dry cows can be fed poorer hay, as long as they can keep a good body condition. This goes for beef or dairy cows.


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## Kasidy (Oct 20, 2002)

Out here in Montana where we raise great hay the difference between horse hay and cow hay is what kind of plants make up the hay. Great horse hay will be good quality grass hay--mostly brome in this area. It will have very few if any weeds and will be dry, but the grass will still be green in color, not overripe or overdried and brown and crumbly. While it is true that because of their digestive system cows can eat hay that is poor condition nobody would call that good or great cow hay. Great cow hay will be mostly alfalfa--or at least 70/30 alfalfa grass mix. It should be a leafy fine stemmed variety of alfalfa put up when it is not too far into bloom. It should also be well dried, not damp or moldy, with green stems and little purple alfalfa flowers looking pressed and delicious. Hay heavy in alfalfa content is too rich for horses and can cause various digestive problems.


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## linn (Jul 19, 2005)

Horse hay around here is grass hay. Cows do better on good,leafy clover or alfalfa hay. No animal should be fed moldy hay.


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## tyusclan (Jan 1, 2005)

It sounds like it varies depending on area. Around here the "horse" hay is cut at a younger age so it's more tender and palatable. They let the "cow" hay grow a little more and it's a little stemmier. Sometimes calling it horse hay is just a way to charge more for it.


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## JeffNY (Dec 13, 2004)

Cow hay isn't always moldy, some of our customers bought hay (other places), and had mold in it. It was "horse hay". Now the cow hay, horse hay difference isn't much, and it seems a horse eats whatever its owners want it to eat, depending how they treated the animal. We have customers who buy hay, does not have to be high quality, their horses eat it, and do well. We have another one that freaks out over alfalfa (its kinda ridiculous, if she figured on less grain with some alfalfa in the bales). Some people who are raising horses to race, will feed pure alfalfa or atleast the highest protein stuff they can buy. Funny thing is, high energy feed is also fed to cows, if the person feeding does so. Our cow feed can also be horse feed that we feed out. Some say "cows can eat about anything right (horse person)?". We inform them, they rather eat good hay, its like any animal. If its good stuff, you only get what you put into them. Funny thing, any dairy that has called us did not want to buy the stuff sold that horse people thought was great. It was usually price, or like last year, quality. The alfalfa was terrible (it went 6 weeks+ beyond full bloom, because it was wet). The RFV was low, and wasn't good. We fed it to our herefords, they ate it up. Protein wasn't bad, but was not the greatest. What would I consider that stuff as? Well, we fed it, but I did not like it. This year is a different story. So it really depends puts up hay. Some care, and have good stuff all around, some cut when rain is forecasted and sell it. 


But the difference between cow hay? and Horse hay? If its dairy, milking etc. The hay needs to be high quality, higher than what a horse needs and in some cases higher than you want to feed them. Our customers like the 12-14% range hay. Some like 2nd leafy orchard grass, while others like 1st cut orchard. Personally, I love Grass Silage, with hay! .


Jeff


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## nans31 (Jul 8, 2002)

:help: I am so confused! Obviously it depends on the area you're living... I have rabbits, goats (wethers) and a calf that is eating hay. I have a grass hay (the "local" hay, grass and mixed weeds, an orchard/alfalfa mix, and orchard grass (a BIG mixture of plants, this makes me sneeze like crazy so not sure what's in thee). I need stemmy plants for the rabbits, the alfalfa mix seems to be great for them... the grass hay I got for the calf and goats... but not sure if it's rich enough for the calf. These are all western washington baled products.
Thanks for all the info.... I'll have to do some research on hays!!
nan


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## JeffNY (Dec 13, 2004)

The way to prevent waste with alfalfa (depends on the quality too) with cows, feed them with a feeder where they cant sort out the leaves, and push hay onto the ground. Those V shaped goat feeders work well for cows, cut bigger holes (smooth the edges!!!). I have feed several alfalfa bales as of late, very very little waste with that goat feeder.


Jeff


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## Allan Mistler (Jun 1, 2004)

tyusclan said:


> It sounds like it varies depending on area. Around here the "horse" hay is cut at a younger age so it's more tender and palatable. They let the "cow" hay grow a little more and it's a little stemmier. Sometimes calling it horse hay is just a way to charge more for it.


That's about how we make the call up here in NH too! I'm under the impression that horses are finicky about having a leafy hay with very little (if any) dust. My cows (I don't do horses) don't mind the dust or stems at all and, since I only feed them what they finish eating, they don't exhibit any "wasteful" characteristics. Perhaps using a different type of cattle hay feeder would resolve that issue for those who are experiencing it. Horse quality hay is consistantly more expensive here than what I refer to as "cow-grade" hay. 
Interesting how the definition varies in different parts of the country...


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## craisbeck (Jul 20, 2005)

I am originally from WI and farming and Cheese is about hte extent of Rural WI. Horse hay usually has a higher grass content. If horses are fed to much high quality alfalfa (early cut with high protien level) the can founder. Cow's however produce very well on hay that has a high protien content. Rule of thumb is alfalfa with the most leaves should be used for cows. Horse need more of a stemmy grass based hay.


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## nans31 (Jul 8, 2002)

Allan Mistler said:


> My cows (I don't do horses) don't mind the dust or stems at all and, since I only feed them what they finish eating, they don't exhibit any "wasteful" characteristics.


What do you mean by "since I only feed them what they finish eating, they don't exhibit any "wasteful" characteristics." 
I've talked to a few people who only have cows, and the opinions vary greatly. Each does his own thing, and that is THE WAY. I don't have horses, but as I'm looking for a good hay, I pretty much see horse OR cow hay. I guess I need to question more of what type of hay it is, and not go by what their opinion is! And, around here hay goes from 3.00-15.00 a bale! What a difference. I just opened a 3.00 bale of alfalfa mix, and it is some nice stuff (for rabbits) stems, and leaves. Doesn't look a whole lot different than the 14.00 bale I bought a few weeks ago!??


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## JeffNY (Dec 13, 2004)

What was the RFV of the 14.00 bale?


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## Allan Mistler (Jun 1, 2004)

nans31 said:


> What do you mean by "since I only feed them what they finish eating, they don't exhibit any "wasteful" characteristics."
> I've talked to a few people who only have cows, and the opinions vary greatly. Each does his own thing, and that is THE WAY. I don't have horses, but as I'm looking for a good hay, I pretty much see horse OR cow hay. I guess I need to question more of what type of hay it is, and not go by what their opinion is! And, around here hay goes from 3.00-15.00 a bale! What a difference. I just opened a 3.00 bale of alfalfa mix, and it is some nice stuff (for rabbits) stems, and leaves. Doesn't look a whole lot different than the 14.00 bale I bought a few weeks ago!??


I don't have a set quantity of hay that I automatically throw in the feeder every day... I'll feed them a quarter of a bale to a half a bale at a time as they consume what was already placed there. In this fashion, though it requires that I look in on them several times each day, I can avoid allowing them to waste their feed. I use a vertical hay feeder which has troughs below the bars to catch any hay that is dropped. I feed them their grain in these troughs also, so they are used to cleaning them up completely.
My neighbor uses a round hay feeder that sits right on the ground and the cows stick their heads through a keyhole like opening to eat. This seems to avoid waste also. As you can see, there are different ways to address that problem.


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## willow_girl (Dec 7, 2002)

Thank you for asking this question, because it's something I have puzzled over too!

Around here, the dairy farmers complain that horse people are too picky about their hay! 

But the hay I see being fed to cows is often second cutting or alfalfa -- the really premo stuff that you can be sure MY horses aren't getting!

(They all manage to stay fat and sassy on first cutting grass hay with some grain.)


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## woodspirit (Aug 3, 2005)

One of the main concerns that "horse people" have is that horses can't eat dusty or moldy hay as it can produce a permanent, chronic cough in them. Not good if you want animal to do alot of.... running....
dairy people are more concerned with protien and feed values as that is going to determine to a large degree how much milk and the fat content of the milk.They have four chambered stomachs also with means they digest grains and roughage better. Horses have a relatively small stomach for their size.


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## nans31 (Jul 8, 2002)

JeffNY said:


> What was the RFV of the 14.00 bale?



RFV=Relative Feed Value?? It is never provided where I get my hay. It's grown in Eastern Wa. is all that I'm told. I buy it from a lady who buys whole fields, and hauls it over here to Western Wa. I wish I knew more of the numbers, but I know it will vary field to field, year to year, etc.
nan


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## milkstoolcowboy (Sep 13, 2003)

It's even more complicated than that. I'd say there's horse hay, beef cow hay, dairy cow hay, calf hay.

The guys I sell "horse hay" to are a finicky lot, but they're willing to pay top dollar for their type of hay. I have one buyer who buys around 50 ton of hay each year, and he wants grass/grass mix hay (timothy and orchardgrass) but will tolerate a small amount of alfalfa that is dry and dust-free. He doesn't want predominantly alfalfa hay, doesn't want fescue and red-clover in the mixed grass hay, doesn't want hay that's had significant rain on it. Bales are small squares and he is with the semi when every load is picked up. Could feed this hay to calves as well.

Beef cow hay can be coarser and of lower quality than hay for dairy cows.

Around here, dairy farms want to buy that high-RFV alfalfa because that's typically the most difficult hay to put up, but they don't free-choice it. What each dairy farm is looking for in hay depends on what type of hay and hay sileage they have put up themselves, and what they're feeding.


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## Nan (May 13, 2002)

The main difference between "horse hay" and "cow hay" is the cutting. Early cutting is usually sold as horse hay. Nutrionally it is better but the main reason is looks. Horse people don't like dark hay. Later cuttings tend to be "rougher looking" and if it gets any rain while it is down it will bale brown not green. There is also the bug issue. Early cuttings donât have as many problems with Blister beetles or other pests. Aside from that there is no difference between horse and cow hay. (This does not include sorghums)


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## woodspirit (Aug 3, 2005)

makes me wonder what people did before cars were around. I know that you could rent different types of wagons, carts, buggies, and even horses.Obviously people in the cities had need of horses for everything like ice, taxi's etc. But what did they feed all these animals?


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## MississippiSlim (Aug 21, 2005)

around here it just means you will be paying a 1.00 or so more for the hay. Plenty of folks with good bahia or bermuda hay that sell it as cow hay prices. Also plenty of folks that sell the same hay as Horse hay and demand more. Mainly to folks who think more expensive is better. Also plenty of folks who will sell anything they can cut and bale. I would just look at the hay...look for mold, dust, weeds, etc.


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## pcwerk (Sep 2, 2003)

Hi all,
Since everyone is so knowledgeable about hay. We had a fellow
cut and bale our hay this year (he takes half for his trouble) then
we sold/trade the rest. I'm looking ahead at next year and wondering
if I could get a better price if I took our half of the hay and store in
the barn until the dead of winter? Do you think that would work, or
do you think by winter everyone would already have all the hay they
need? Just looking for ways to "get more" next year ;-)
james


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## milkstoolcowboy (Sep 13, 2003)

James,
Usually, hay prices are higher when the ground is white rather than green. Not always. This year in SE MN, we've had fairly heavy yields on the first 2-3 cuttings and enough rain to keep pastures somewhat greened up. As a result, demand for hay now is poor and I wouldn't expect hay prices to rise much through the winter. There's always a demand for top quality hay, but this coming winter, I'd expect fewer guys to run low.

Based on per ton prices, small squares will always bring the most, but 3' by 3' by 8' (large) squares aren't too far behind. Even shedded large rounds will bring less, and stored outside, especially w/o net wrap will take a further hit.

Selling in winter means either running an ad and selling off the farm or taking to one of the hay auctions. Caledonia has one that usually starts in December -- to sell there your hay has to be tested. Canton, MN has hay auctions in winter and late spring on 52 west edge of town. There is a large, year-round weekly hay auction in Ft. Atkinson, IA. Sometimes hay auctions at Lanesboro, MN and Cresco, IA sale barns. If you have good quality dairy hay, it will bring well at Caledonia and Ft. Atkinson. Hire a hauler and load out a semi and it will bring more. You'll pay to have it hauled to the acution, but the hauler can go right to the seller's farm after the auction.

Long, solid small square bales are the way to go for selling in the winter. (But more labor than round bales in the summer.) Off the farm, you can sell by the bale and maybe sell anywhere from 25 bales to 1000+ to buyers. (Some just want to buy a little at a time, some want to just buy for a couple horses.) Unless one guy buys the whole barn full, you have to be around when guys come to buy hay. Question is do you want to handle small squares in the summer and do you have conveyor or elevator to get the hay up into the barn mow. It can be hard to find help for handling small square bales.

You might make a little money, but you aren't going to get rich on a couple thousand bales.

One good site to keep an eye on hay prices is agrinews.com They have lots of wanted and for sale hay classifieds and also report prices from the local hay auctions.


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## pcwerk (Sep 2, 2003)

Thanks for the info Milkstool! I don't want to take over this thread, but I
think everyone learns a little during these discussions...but one other question.
We are greener than grass, but fell in love w/ SE MN and bought a small
farm near Spring Grove. Now we have a 12 acre hay field and an 8 acre one.
This summer I think we were took by the former owner of the place, who now
seems to have had a bad reputation with just about everyone.
Anyway, we "bartered" with her some work around the place for 26 bales of
organic hay (not certified, yet) that were the big 700 lb square bales. Horse
quality hay for her horses. We figured it out at the rate of $65/ton and went
from there. A neighbor tells us now that when you are dealing with small amounts of hay, say to an individual you deal in "per bale", not by the ton.
And he says that a per bale amount would have brought us more money. Sooo, do you agree w/ that statement about dealing in "per bale" and what
do you think the bales were worth "per bale"? 
Its history now, and the lady didn't even finish the work she was supposed to!
We just chalked it up to the learning curve, and now won't have anything to
do w/ that lady. I would appreciate hearing what you think.
james


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## milkstoolcowboy (Sep 13, 2003)

James,

Maybe you got taken a bit, but if this was earlier in the summer, it wasn't by more than $10/ton or so.

I like to sell and buy hay by the ton, but I don't like to sell 25 bales at a time. The way I see it, you know what an average small square weighs, so it doesn't take too much to set a per bale price and per ton price to be equivalent. Plus, the guy with a couple horses doesn't want to go across the scales for every 30 bale pickup load. Now, lots of folks aren't set up to handle large squares and don't want to buy in that quantity, so there should be a premium for small squares.

So, yes, you'll maybe do a bit better selling by the bale, but on your acreage, you didn't get skinned too bad. The challenge is to get good hay up DRY, and then get it shedded. The reason I like small square bales is that the end of the day they are all in the shed.

Hay prices in Ft. Atkinson were up $10-15/ton today -- about 100 tons less at the auction than last week.


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