# Need Help Again!



## CarolT (Mar 12, 2009)

I could almost (almost) scream. New queen arrived this morning. Dash down to get her, come back to install her asap. It's been a good week since the bees have allowed me into the hive, at least. I'd been allowing them a little peace hoping I'd see brood...

Well, I do. Including queen cells. How do I know if these are good queen cells that will develop a strong queen or the weaker supercedure (sp?) queens?

Here's pictures of two sides of one frame. Have another frame with capped brood and some queen cells, too. The caged queen is back in the house cooling her heels until I find out what I need to do now... :hair:


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## CarolT (Mar 12, 2009)

I think my options may be to leave it alone and kill the new mail-order queen, kill the supercedure (sp?) queen cells and place this queen in the hive in her cage, leave the cells and put the cage in and let them work it out, let Cheryl take one frame of brood from each of her 3 hives and put them and the new girl in the box where the hive was just killed off and let them set up their own colony... Any other options? And which way would you go? TIA (again)


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## scrapiron (Jul 23, 2011)

Did you see any eggs or larvae? You may already have a queen laying in there.


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## CarolT (Mar 12, 2009)

All I see is the capped stuff, but I never saw any eggs or larvae before now, so I was shocked to see it. 

I had a war between 2 hives a few weeks back. Lost one hive and the other was pretty thin looking. Couldn't find a queen in the remaining hive, nor eggs or brood, and when my bees became super aggressive this past weekend when I tried to check them, I thought they had lost their queen, so ordered one first thing Monday. 

All the queen cells are in the center of the frame and the frame in the picture is the second one from the side. The center frames only have minute amounts of honey. Frame 2 and 3 from the edge have brood and pollen and honey.


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## copperkid3 (Mar 18, 2005)

CarolT said:


> I think my options may be to leave it alone and kill the new mail-order queen, kill the supercedure (sp?) queen cells and place this queen in the hive in her cage, leave the cells and put the cage in and let them work it out, let Cheryl take one frame of brood from each of her 3 hives and put them and the new girl in the box where the hive was just killed off and let them set up their own colony... Any other options? And which way would you go? TIA (again)


********
hesitant in killing ANY unless knowing they weren't worth spit! Best answer is your last idea of making a split nuc and introducing the new queen there. Can never have too many 'spares' & who knows; they might even make a surplus for you down the road. Don't forget to feed them as needed and since most of the country has been in a dearth so far. . . . it certainly wouldn't hurt to try and build them up to make into/thru winter. Keep an eye on the others as well and try & determine if there are ANY eggs/young brood. . . .those that don't could be "assisted" by introducing a sealed & transplanted queen cell or two.


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## southerngurl (May 11, 2003)

Yea, make a nuc. That way if this hive is unsuccessful in making a new queen you have her for backup.


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## CarolT (Mar 12, 2009)

Will taking one frame from 3 different hives to put in the nuc for the queen cause any problems? Cheryl's hives are too young to take too much from any single one of them, I'm afraid, so we thought one frame and nurse bees from each of the 3, maybe?


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## CarolT (Mar 12, 2009)

Yeah, not feeding soon enough is what caused the war  I'll be feeding for sure.


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## alleyyooper (Apr 22, 2005)

The capped brood in the picture looks like normal queen laid brood along with how the patteren is. There for I deem the queen cells as viable queen cells. I would leave them alone and think about the mail order queen.

We have some time till it is to cold for the bees to do much from a cluster.
You have drawn comb, You have a deep, bottom board, inter and outercover. Pull just two frames of brood from a hive with the nurse bees. install the queen for release, feed them syrup feed them syrup and feed them some more syrup and maybe a pollen patty to help in raising brood till this drought is over and things are in bloom with necter.

If the mail order queen is a good one and you feed syrup and a pollen patty they should be in fine shape by freeze up.
*DON'T FORGET TO REDUCE THE ENTRANCE TO REALLY SMALL TWARD THE TINY SIDE.*If you had a 5 frame nuc box for a month that would be ideal.

If you take nurse bees from two different hives mist them with vallina. mix it 1:1 with water for the mist.

I also suggest a small hand held magnfing glass to help see eggs.

Where did you get the idea a queen raised as a supersuder is a less than diserable queen?

 Al


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## CarolT (Mar 12, 2009)

<ashamed> From the internet. Though I should have said emergency, which makes a little more sense. 

I don't have a nuc. DH could easily build one, but there's no time  We will have one when I can get the wood...

I don't have what you said to spray them with, so won't mix frames from different hives unless I can find some this morning.

The hives were close, but we will move this one and hope a half acre is enough space. 

Thanks again for all the help

ETA Duh! When I went to search, I realized you typo'd vanilla! That I do have! Thanks! (Forgive my brain, I think it stayed in bed)


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## Avalon Acres (Dec 1, 2006)

This is what would work for me:
- Follow Alleyyooper's advice and leave the supercedure cells where they are
- I believe you said you had a failed or die-out hive, if so use that hive body for two or three frames of brood and feed as above with the new queen.
- I would partition the hive body with a division board (plywood, 1 X 12, etc.)to create a 4 or 5 frame nuc, with division board tight to under side of lid, sides and bottom. Less area to defend against.... 
- Relax!

Dave


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## Avalon Acres (Dec 1, 2006)

I had a queenless hive that drove me nuts for several weeks, added frames every week for 4 weeks until eggs and brood appeared. Nurse bees are usually accepted with little conflict and the field bees will return to their original hive. A light sugar spray, if you don't have vanilla, might make you feel better and distract the other bees.


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## CarolT (Mar 12, 2009)

3 frames of brood, nurse bees, and the queen installed  Hopefully they will give me the second hive I was trying to have before... The opening is reduced, hopefully it won't restrict air too much during the really hot hours. I know, if nothing else, this gives her her best chance of survival


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## tom j (Apr 3, 2009)

the mix al is talking about is just some cooking vanilla mixed 1 to 1 with water


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## CarolT (Mar 12, 2009)

Yeah, Cheryl understood it right away, couldn't understand why I said I didn't have any LOL We both cook a lot  I hate being so slow to get things sometimes  getting old is the pits...

I didn't spray them with vanilla, we got 3 frames from the same hive and did spray them with sugar water and they are being fed... Hopefully contented bees <fingers crossed>


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## alleyyooper (Apr 22, 2005)

:duelld ? whos old?
I'm only 65 this year next i;ll be 66.

 Al


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## CarolT (Mar 12, 2009)

Old? Not you! Me! OK, maybe I just wore my brain out somehow... It used to work, I know it did... And I can't seem to find a grease fitting. <sigh>

Anyone planning to do bees that have goats, don't set them up in the pasture. My goats want to be there watching everything, nibbling new wax frames, etc. DH chose the spot. Next time, he has to work with the bees while _I_ watch!


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## CarolT (Mar 12, 2009)

Got my daughter to go by the place that has supplies for home brewing. He also is the go-to place for bee supplies. He said I don't need any brewer's yeast, there's plenty of pollen around and I wouldn't want to pay a dollar an ounce for it anyway...

Do I not need the yeast? There's not a lot blooming around here, and I don't want them to need it and not have it.


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## alleyyooper (Apr 22, 2005)

I can't say about there but here the pollen is slim pickins.

If you want brood during this drought then you need pollen or a substute along with necter or syrup.

Ultra Bee Dry Feed

This is the one we use when we need some thing fast. Each patty weighs 1 pound. In a normal spring the girls go thu a patty in about 2 weeks. and the hives start booming.

Bee Pro with Pro Health Patties

 Al


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## tom j (Apr 3, 2009)

CarolT 

do you brew ??? I do some wine ..


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## CarolT (Mar 12, 2009)

tom j, If times get much worse dh will have to do homemade beer LOL I haven't made wine but my BIL does. Our town/county _was_ famous for being dry and having the only dry Oktoberfest anywhere. They went wet last year. Actually, brewing your own is still illegal all over the state, but they are supposed to be working on that...

Al, that's what I thought. Hitting health food store today. With only 3 frames, they need help. He said they'd either make it or not... _That_ is the type thinking that caused the war... Which he doesn't think was what happened either  There was a man working there who was really helpful but he retired. I miss him. DH tried doing bees ten or fifteen years ago and the other man was there then.


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## alleyyooper (Apr 22, 2005)

Expenive health food store with an unhelpful employe I'd avoid. Go to the links I posted yesterday and get one of those products. Mann Lake is quick and the product we use works.

 Al


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