# questions from a new horse owner.



## dragonmorgan (Aug 3, 2012)

Well technically we aren't owners yet but we will be in a few weeks. Anyway, a guy my husband works with has recently had to move and is wanting to give away his 2 Tennessee Walkers. It's a mare and a gelding and they are both around a 2 years old and have never been ridden. We have been talking about getting some horses for some time now, especially since we work cows and feel that horses could be a great asset with the herd. I am not looking for horses that can do a bunch of fancy cutting and roping or anything like that. We mostly just want to be able to walk the fence line, ride through the woods looking for the cows after they calve, and, of course, some leisurely trail riding on our "off" days. Right now we are doing all this on our farm truck and it can't go where we need it to and the constant starting and stopping when going around the fence is more hassle than it's worth.

So we have the opportunity to get these 2 horses. We have around 100 acres of land that our cows are on but we have a few smaller fields (not included in the 100 acres) that we don't really use and could support the horses once we get the fencing and all that set up. I'm hoping to try rotational grazing with the cows soon and would also plan on doing this with the horses too. So my questions are...Can you graze horses on pasture like you can cows. I know they won't be able to go year round like the cows but can they graze in the summer and then be lightly supplemented with hay and grain in the winter or do they need grain every day. Our fields have not been set up to rotational graze yet be we are in the planning process of figuring out what all we want to plant and we hope to have everything ready to plant by late winter/early spring. We live in south Alabama and are planning on going with Fescue and Kentucky Blue Grass (most of our fields right now are Bahia grass so that will be in there too) and sowing in clover and alphalpha to help suppliment in the cooler months. For winter we will be grazing off of some stockpiled portions of the fields and supplementing with hay and grain as needed. This is the plan for the cows but I am thinking it will work out for the horses too. Since there is only 2 of them I'm figuring that they won't need more than 10 or so acres.

Another question I have is about breaking. Me nor my husband have ridden a lot much less broke a horse to ride. I have found a few good places near us that break horses and will give lessons to the owners once they are done, and one place will even teach your horse how to work cows. How do I tell if a place is a really good place to send them to? I would prefer if they were gentle broke by someone who understands the way a horse's mind works and can help me to understand it also. We don't plan on putting a saddle on them for at least another year, what are some things I can do during that year that can help the horses not be so stressed when the time comes to break them? 

I know we are jumping into it suddenly but we are the by-the-seat-of-your-pants kind of people and I just don't think we can turn down 2 free horses. I've been schooling myself up on horses and my aunt has some and she's been helping us too but she keeps hers in a barn and I want ours pastured. Plus hers are for pleasure riding and have never seen cows and I want ours to be comfortable around cows and have a general idea of how to work them.


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## Narshalla (Sep 11, 2008)

Questions like this have been asked before, numerous times, and they usually end up with the same replies.

The most recent that I noticed was this thread: May becoming a horse owner.

Basically, these are young horses, and you have little or no experience, so most knowledgeable horse people will not recommend these horses for you, and the thread will give you all the reasons why it's not a good idea.

Hope this helps.


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## beccachow (Nov 8, 2008)

The old saying is geen plus green equals black and blue. It sounds like a great idea, but my worry is you will end up with two pasture ornaments who cannot be ridden.

What you could do is send them to a pro trainer for a few months, or have one come to you. That would be the best solution.

I agree, the deal sounds great on the surface, but if your riding abilities do not match the skill level of your horse, all the fun is gone and you will be very reluctant to ride at all. Ask me how I know that! 

Oops, just read where you will be sending them away, my bad. 

GO watch the facility train a few. If they don't let you observe, that is a "no." If they use heavy handed tactics and fear, that is a "no."


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## secuono (Sep 28, 2011)

At 2yrs, they really should not be ridden or put into heavy work. Only light ground work and manners. Then at 3yrs you can start under saddle but keep it light until 4yrs. 
But people love to argue about this, so you'll see opinions from work em hard now to wait until they are 5yrs.


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## dragonmorgan (Aug 3, 2012)

Thanks for the link, I was sure the questions had already been posted I just couldn't find it. I def want to know what I would be getting myself into. I wasn't planning on riding them for at least a year.


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## GrannyCarol (Mar 23, 2005)

You are headed the right direction to wait a year and have them trained by a good trainer. If you want to spend the money to do this, have some lessons NOW, learn how to handle them from the ground and teach them good manners. Also start taking riding lessons so you will be ready. 

It would be a LOT cheaper to buy two middle aged, well trained horses that you can ride today and take some lessons on and learn what you are doing. Just a thought - "free" isn't cheap, if you pay for feed and lessons and training, you could buy a couple of really nice horses these days.


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## Teej (Jan 14, 2012)

Good trainers are hard to find but number 1 thing you should look for is if they have an open door policy while your horse is there. As in...can you show up without prior appointment to see your horse and watch them working others and your own if you happen to pop in at the right time? Are they familiar with gaited breeds and know how to train them?

Talk to farriers and other horse owners in the area of the training facility. They might not have used them personally but word gets around. One bad report doesn't usually mean they're bad trainers but if you hear several it's best to look elsewhere. Also ask if they have references from past clients.

Really do your homework on available trainers it will save you a ton of frustration.

About feeding...Some horses do fine on pasture supplemented with hay when needed and some need a little grain to maintain a good weight. You just have to play that by ear.

Pasture-green alfalfa is a definite no-no, and a little clover is ok but not much, both are legumes and can cause bloating and other issues. If you go with fescue make sure it's endophyte free. Horses don't tend to like it as well as other grasses. Don't know for sure what works in your area but the blue grass is good, orchard grass is good as well. You can usually find a pasture blend that will give you a variety of grasses in one bag of seed. 

A lot of folks around here keep their cattle and horses in the same pasture but you need to make sure the horses can't get to the minerals that are specified for cattle. My crazy horses on the other hand are petrified of them.LOL


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## offthegrid (Aug 11, 2009)

dragonmorgan said:


> I know we are jumping into it suddenly but we are the by-the-seat-of-your-pants kind of people and I just don't think we can turn down 2 free horses.


To be honest, free horses are easy to find, already broke and in need of a good home...or green broke and already working under saddle, or older horses in need of a step down in workload. 

I have been riding for 10+ years and owned horses for about 6 years now, and you couldn't pay me to take two unbroken two year olds. You really don't "send them away for training" and have them come back fully trained unless you have a lot of money....but even still, if you don't ride well, you might still struggle to ride them safely. They will still be young and green even if you sent them away for a full year of training....which would be quite expensive. You would most likely save money by buying two broke trail horses.

My "young" horse is 8 and I've had her since she was 5 and well broke under saddle. She is a great young mare, but still can be quite a handful when she wants to be. (Notice that I consider an 8 year old mare to be "young" still). 

Also, just because they are free, does not mean you shouldn't have the vet look them over before you decide to bring them home. I recently acquired a "free" companion pony that had "mild laminitis" and needed a pasture-free environment. Which was fine, as I have a mini that needs the same. Four weeks later, more than $1K spent, and countless hours caring for this poor fellow has revealed that he has Cushings disease and it is still touch and go whether he will pull through his current state of founder...I suspect that we will spend quite a lot more on this guy in his recovery.... and he wasn't ever going to be a riding horse anyway. Make sure you know what you're getting...or it might not be as free as you think!

Generally speaking, 10 acres will be a lot of pasture for two horses. Unless you are in a dry climate, or the pasture is partially wooded....they will not need anywhere near this much pasture. My two mares have about 3 acres -- 12 hours on, 12 hours dry lot, and they are big fatties this summer. And that is with a drought. So....you might not want them to have quite this much room to graze, or at least may want to consider a way to remove them from pasture part of the time so they don't get too fat.


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## where I want to (Oct 28, 2008)

First you need to judge the temperament of this horse, which is sometimes hard in horses you can't ride. If you have a horse whose tendency is to buck, kick, rear or anything else, you may not realize it til you put the stress of being ridden on them. 
Many walking horses are the salt of the earth. A few, like any other breed, can be dangerous. 
Also walking horses should really have a gaited horse trainer if at all possible. I have seen some fine gaited horses really have their gait screwed up by a trainer who did not value this. 
It would help for you all to take some riding lessons. It may prove that the care of a horse is not what you want to spend time doing. This would allow you to have some idea about what to expect from a horse in general. 
And remember that a 2 year old (or three year old for that matter) is the same as a teenager. Very likely to be a pain in the rear and need all kinds of guidance from a knowledgible person in order to grow up to be a good citizen.

Right now horses are cheap- you can get a well trained, sound horse for under a thouseand dollars. Three months with a trainer will use up that much easily. By the time you start these two, you might very well have that much into them.


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## jennigrey (Jan 27, 2005)

One thing that is entirely reasonable is to ask the trainer for references. As a person relatively green to horses, it will be difficult for you to evaluate the trainer's abilities just by watching.


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## jennigrey (Jan 27, 2005)

Also, the vast majority of a horse's value is in his training. There are exceptions, but most horses aren't worth a heck of a lot if they have no training. Like cars that aren't running. If you're a mechanic, great! If it is a special car - antique, expensive, etc. and it isn't running, it still has some value. But your average Honda Civic... not worth much if it isn't running, unless a person has some mechanical skills.


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## tinknal (May 21, 2004)

I think you are lucky to find a couple of untrained horses. As someone who has trained quite a few horses, give me an untrained one any time. The reason is that there are no man made problems to overcome, and they have not learned how to outsmart a rider. Find a very good trainer with proven results and get 90 days training, not 30 or 60 days. In fact I wouldn't even send them to a trainer willing to train them for only 30 days. A really good trainer knows you can't properly train a horse in 30 days (especially for newbies).

I could suggest one of the best trainers in the country but you would have to ship them to Minnesota. I can link you to videos if you want,.


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## Lisa in WA (Oct 11, 2004)

You should send a pm to Sidepasser (a poster here). She is a very knowledgeable horsewoman, loves TWH's and lives in Alabama. I'd ask her.


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## Barnhouse (Feb 24, 2012)

> dragonmorgan
> Well technically we aren't owners yet but we will be in a few weeks. Anyway, a guy my husband works with has recently had to move and is wanting to give away his 2 Tennessee Walkers.


If he's giving them away, I'd probably take them but then maybe sell or trade them for something I may be better equipped to handle. Just a thought.


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## Rogo (Jan 1, 2006)

A horse can be hitched up to a cart for light driving at 18 months. Many drive their youngsters until they're old enough to ride. The horse can learn quite a bit during those months.

I saddle mine when they're 3.

Fescue -- not good for pregnant mares; can cause abortions [in case you may be thinking of breeding].

I haven't used a trainer, but I've heard many folks say that a good trainer, when finished training the horse, will train the human on that horse so the human knows all the cues that the horse has been taught.

Enjoy your new adventure.


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## mountainwmn (Sep 11, 2009)

As an experienced rider, if I wanted someone else to start my horse, I would expect 3- 4 months of training. You said neither of you have much experience so you probably want to have the horses in training 6 months to a year, with maybe another 3 months of training for both you and the horse. 
Recently I have run into a lot of adult riders with horror stories of how they bought horses that they were lied to and the horses are unsafe. And it turns out the people can barely ride and they ruin good horses fairly quickly. It happens often with people that buy horses with years of training. Not every horse will take advantage of you but at that age its impossible to tell.
It could be a great fun adventure but plan to pay for extra training. It would be much cheaper to buy two older horses that have beginner friendly dispositions and you could start riding now.


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## dragonmorgan (Aug 3, 2012)

I talked to a trainer in my area and he also gives lessons. I did not ask him how long he takes to break them. He also told me that I was welcome to come by and just watch him work anytime. He is also a farrier and I made sure to ask if he had ever farriered gaited horses and he said that earlier this week he had done the hooves of a couple of Tennessee Walkers. I plan to take some riding lessons with this trainer whether we get the horses or not to get an idea of how he is around horses. He trains horses to work cows too so he would be able to tell me whether or not these 2 we are looking at would make good cow horses or would likely just give us problems. If we get the horses trained under the saddle and realize that they will not work for us we have no problem selling them and at least making some of our money back from the deal. I don't plan on sending them to the trainer for a year, I would like to improve their body condition before I put any kinds of stress of them, not to mention they will be in a new place and I want them settled in before we try anything.

Tinknal: I would love links to the videos. Minnesota is a bit too far for us but I still wouldn't mind checking him out.

I will message Sidepasser and see what advice she might have for me about them thanks. Also, for the pasture, breaking the 10 acre lot into a smaller piece for the horses is not a big deal. I would like to try rotational grazing with them since horses can be so rough on a pasture so I figured more acreage meant more paddocks and more recoup time for the grass that had already been grazed.

If nothing else I def plan on starting some riding lessons and at least visiting this trainers barn to see how he is with horses. I'm sure I will need a trainer no matter which horses I get (these or some that are already broke)


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## GrannyCarol (Mar 23, 2005)

One thing to keep in mind is that Walkers (or other gaited horses) require significantly different training and riding to build their walking gait. A cow horse trainer could be a great cow horse trainer and not know how to train them to gait well or to train you to ride a gaited horse to maintain its gaits. 

Also, if you plan to ride with other friends, what sort of horses do they have? If they have Quarter horses, your Walker might not fit well in the group, as it will walk too fast for them and it could be difficult to match up a speed you can all ride at. 

On the other hand, gaited horses can be very comfortable and nice to ride - I'm just trying to think of all the angles for you.


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## wr (Aug 10, 2003)

I hate to be the voice of reason but ranch horses are expensive for a reason. They don't just come cowy, it takes years of training for a horse to be suitable for ranch work and anybody that tells you otherwise is a liar. I prefer to train my own because I know they're trained right but it is generally assumed that a ranch horse would be nicely started but not finished by any means by the time they're 7 or 8. 

One of the things you really understand is just what green broke really is and what it's going to do for you. You aren't capable to starting your own horses on the ground so you're going to have to pay somebody for that and that's going to add substantially to the bill but green broke means started under saddle and in dire need of continual training and correction. New riders are not capable of that continual training and correction because they really don't see little things as a big deal, tend to be worried about getting bucked off if they correct their horse and are generally too worried about figuring out their seat, hands and balance to be instilling manners at the same time. Their cues are not always correct and they confuse young horses who have been trained by skilled riders and the results are not always terrific and training is expensive. 

There are plenty of good horses out there and it would be better if you looked for a horse that was well enough trained that it could help you become a better rider that to risk getting hurt by a young horse that needs a far more skilled rider.


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## Sparkie (Aug 16, 2012)

You sound pretty sensible so I think whatever you guys decide you should be ok. Just make sure and get lessons and don't do anything based on emotion - evaluate the situation and do what makes the most sense.


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## Molly Mckee (Jul 8, 2006)

Free horses are common around here. Free untrained two year old's is not a deal. If you want working cow horses you need to be aware that tennessee walking horses are not noted for being cow horses. In general they tend to be long and lanky, not what you want for a working cow horse.

If you want to work cows--and I don't know what you mean buy this--you are going to have to have a lot more riding experience than you have now. A mediocre cow horse would probably turn out from under you.


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## tinknal (May 21, 2004)

dragonmorgan said:


> Tinknal: I would love links to the videos. Minnesota is a bit too far for us but I still wouldn't mind checking him out.


Here is the link to his youtube channel. He has loads of videos.

MrLarrySurrett&#39;s channel - YouTube


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## dragonmorgan (Aug 3, 2012)

I should have explained better. When I say "work cows" I just mean that I mainly want them to be able to be around them. Our herd has a bunch of old ones that pretty much know what we want of them but right now we are having to do everything on foot so I am looking to one day upgrade to horses. We are not in a rush for it so a year or two of training isnt a big deal to us. The main goal for our horses is to take the place of our truck when we are out checking the fences. The constant stop and go and inability to get to the back parts of our fence because of the trees make it almost not worth the hassle of driving the truck out there. Plus when the cows calve we sometimes have to go out and search for them in the woods and that leaves one of us in the truck driving around and the other walking the woods on foot. It is a slow process to say the least.
When we are sorting the cows in the catch pen we put them in one of our upper fields and then lead then through the catch pen and out another gate to the lower field. The cows know the deal so the horses would just be used to help us stop any cows from turning back. No fancy cutting techniques or anything just less leg work for us.

The trainer I am looking into should be able to tell us if these horses will be any good around cows and if they won't be then we will find them a new home. Good riding horses around here are cheap but there would still be the risk that these trained horses wouldn't be good around cows either and since we don't really have a use for horses that can't be near cows they wouldn't do us any good and we would have to get rid of them too and this is not the best time to try and get money back out of horses. Trained ranch horses are not in the cheap horse category, though, because there are so many ranches that will pay good money for them. I guess with the free ones I kind on feel like if they don't work out then we haven't invested a whole lot of money into them so anything we get back would be better than what we started with. I am sure this trainer can teach me how to ride horses that work cows while he is teaching me to ride. I plan to continue seeing him even after the horses are "trained" because I know they will still require a lot of work even after they are able to be ridden and I want someone to be able to watch me ride and point out all the things I am doing wrong so that I can fix them. 

I know that Tennesse walkers do not make the best ranch horses but there are some out there that work cows and there are even some that are in team penning competitions. The fact that they are usually good tempered and easy to handle and train is a def selling point for us because we are so new to horses.


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## wolffeathers (Dec 20, 2010)

tinknal said:


> Here is the link to his youtube channel. He has loads of videos.
> 
> MrLarrySurrett's channel - YouTube


Do you know what breed the horse in this video is? He is a handsome one, I was curious.

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OvJQxK5WLME&feature=BFa&list=UUH_OdIL_m5q0pU9H44ihOBw[/ame]


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## dragonmorgan (Aug 3, 2012)

That Mr Surrett fellow is pretty good. It's amazing what all that horse was doing in that first video. I wish we lived closer to him now lol


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## ErinP (Aug 23, 2007)

> The old saying is green plus green equals black and blue.


becca beat me to it. It's a popular saying because it's _true_. A green rider and a green horse are NEVER a good combination.

To the issue of hiring a trainer, a good one is going to cost you a pretty penny. 
We have a neighbor who gets $1000 to start young horses and he has a waiting list a good 6-8 months long. And this is ranch country! Most horse people around here are experienced riders and are _still_ willing to pay that much to have Ray start them.

But even if you have a top-notch trainer put a good handle on your colts, they will still be _colts_. And colts are like kids--they need constant diligence, discipline and correction. 
Green riders simply don't know enough to realize when a horse is testing them and when they're genuinely confused about what's being asked. 
Also, you can't send that colt off to a trainer and then let them sit for a month or two. Otherwise you'll end up with a bigger problem that a horse that knows nothing; you'll have a horse that knows what he wants to get out of.

Good, broke horses are selling for next to nothing. Look for something that's at least 7 or 8 years old and you'll spend about as much as you will on your "free" horses, but you'll get something you'll probably be a lot happier with...


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## Sparkie (Aug 16, 2012)

Was thinking a walker might not be the best for doing things with cows. They do walk really fast. I can't imagine herding cows on them, you'd be walking up on them all the time because the horses would go so much faster than the cows. I never could get used to their walk after years of riding regular gaited horses.


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## wr (Aug 10, 2003)

It's way easier to take a well trained horse and school it to work with cattle than it is to take untrained 2 year old and make it safe for a green rider and cattle. If your trainer/farrier is worth his salt at all, he will tell you the same thing. 

It sounds to me like you're spitting hairs on what kind of horse you need because your requirements sound a lot like a ranch horse and nothing like a green colt. I'm the 4th generation of ranchers and there's a darned good reason that horses trained to do what you want are expensive and it's because of the time it takes to get them there. You also have to realize that your cattle aren't going to react to a horse quite like you think they are and they're going to be pretty spooky if you've always handled them on foot. 

I'm not sure how cheap horses are in your area but it sounds like they're pretty reasonable. If you can find a trainer that will charge something really cheap like $300 - $400/month, you're looking at a minimum of $1,200.00 in training time alone for a green horse. Can the same person help you shop for a trained horse in the $1,200.00 range and maybe put in a couple weeks making sure they'll work with cattle?


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## dragonmorgan (Aug 3, 2012)

I will get in contact with the trainer and see if he knows of any good, already broke horses in our area for sale for a decent price. I am sure he knows of some.


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## ErinP (Aug 23, 2007)

> I'm the 4th generation of ranchers and there's a darned good reason that horses trained to do what you want are expensive and it's because of the time it takes to get them there. You also have to realize that your cattle aren't going to react to a horse quite like you think they are and they're going to be pretty spooky if you've always handled them on foot.


To be fair, she's just asking for a farmer horse, not a real cow horse. 
I've known a lot of farmer horses. They don't have the slightest bit of cow in them, but they'll walk along behind a cow because you ask them to. They'll go chase down a calf breaking back because you ask them to. They just won't anticipate those movements like an actual cow horse will. I've always thought horses like that were like riding a 4wheeler, just slower and with less noise...
And yeah, cows that aren't used to horses will take a bit to get there, but it won't be more than a few weeks. I'm sure you've seen it too wr, where the place gets a bunch of cows in that have obviously never seen horses before. They're squirrelly for a while, but they come out of it.
However, I still agree that where the riders aren't, it's probably best to do all of this on a more experienced horse.


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## Molly Mckee (Jul 8, 2006)

Maybe a "Japanese Quarter horse" as an old rancher friend used to call ATV's would be more practical, as well as cheaper!


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## wr (Aug 10, 2003)

ErinP, I guess maybe we think differently or our experiences vary. When people start talking about 'just wanting to check cows, use horses in the sorting pen, etc.,' they need more than what they're looking for. In my world, if you're using a horse to check cows during calving, you need to be prepared to use it, unless you're going to run back and get the quad when you have problems. If they're checking cattle in the bush and find a calf in trouble, will they also have time to run back and grab the quad? My daughter was 8 when her and her younger brother found a calf that stuck in mud and going down fast, they fished the calf out, she slung it over the shoulders of her horse and save the calf. The OP mentions using horses in the sorting pen. Maybe things are different down in your country, but up here that takes skill on the part of the horse and the rider and again, I wouldn't classify that as a farm horse and if things fall apart, I don't think the quad is a useful alternative. 

My point is that while many start out thinking that they just need a horse to do this or that, if they start with a fairly well trained horse, they will find many great uses for the horse and life will be easier.


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## CheerfulMom4 (May 21, 2008)

I just wanted to add not to underestimate the time it takes to ride the horse after it gets back from the trainer. They need ridden often to keep up with what progress you've made.

I once bought a 4 year old horse. At that time my youngest was about 2. We also have our own business so sometimes time gets away from me. 

This horse was awesome, not spooky and a real sweetheart so I thought I could make it work. Our first big hurdle was that she didn't really want to leave her buddies which at that time were only goats. It took a lot and lots of turning, circles and fit throwing to get her to leave by herself. Finally we got over that..I thought. I was riding about 3 times a week and she was walking right away from here, I was really proud.

Then..we got busy and I didn't ride for 2 weeks. When I went to leave, we started back at square one. I realized with limited experience and time, I just didn't have the time or want the pressure of having to always get out there and ride to keep her decent. She was a really great horse just needed someone with more and expierence. 

I would consider myself an intermediate rider. I've had horses for about 10 years, both western and english lessons. 

After selling her and starting over I now have 3 mares, the youngest one is 11. My horse now I don't ride often since I ride my little girls horse a lot with her. I just rode my horse for the first time in 2 months and I had the time of my life, no worries just plain fun.  I decided a while ago that I had no business having a horse under 10 years old. lol


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## ErinP (Aug 23, 2007)

> if you're using a horse to check cows during calving, you need to be prepared to use it, unless you're going to run back and get the quad when you have problems.


Which is probably exactly what would happen if they're used to do it afoot anyway. :shrug: Though I agree, a farmer horse doesn't belong in the sorting pen no matter what. 
I guarantee they'll try to fight that one about twice before they just go back to doing it on foot.


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## Mme_Pickles (Nov 15, 2011)

To the folks who think gaited horses only walk fast, :umno: I have a TWH and he can dog walk as well as any non-gaited horse. That's just a slow, meandering type walk. He also has his smooth running walk, which I have unofficially clocked at about 9mph. We're still working on that with him. He prefers to pace. *sigh* So, I guess that's really the biggest potential problem with a gaited horse. What if they wanna pace? Ugh. I'd rather sit a rough trot than attempt to stay on while a horse paces. Blech! Lol  
I'm with the folks that are advising you to get an already trained horse, at least 10yrs old or more. That sounds like a much better fit for what you want. And ride! Ride as often as you are able and then even when you think you don't have time to ride, get your bum out there and at least do some ground work/manners with you horse! My boy will tell you he really enjoys the times when we go without riding. *sarcasm off* 
Good luck with your decision!!!
HORSES ARE AWESOME!!!!


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## Irish (Feb 10, 2012)

About riding a pacing horse...that's the worst, isn't it?? Heh...

I'd have to go back and reread the posts but, overall, I'm thinking this isn't a good idea for the OP. IF you are going to get a first horse, get a steady eddie and go from there. I can count on one hand the times I've sold a young horse to a newbie and had it work out properly (like three times in decades of selling horses, more to the stories but too long for here). Go with lessons at first at least. If it's just checking fence, a quad might be better in the long run!!  

Everyone has pretty much said what I was thinking, just had to chime in and add my two cents worth.


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## Lisa in WA (Oct 11, 2004)

I used to ride a friend's horse who paced and while posting was impossible, it wasn't necessary because the pacing was so incredibly smooth. It was a pleasure to ride him on the trail.


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## dragonmorgan (Aug 3, 2012)

yes Erin, the farm horse you describe is more what we are wanting. If the horse can anticipate the cows moves and be a good cutting horse that is fine too but its not a deal breaker if it can't do all those things. 

4-wheelers would be just as good if not better but we don't want horses just for working the farm. We have always wanted horses for the simple joy of riding and you just can't get that kind of relaxed feeling of plodding along through the woods from an ATV. Not to mention there will still be places the ATV can't go in the woods that the horse would be able to.


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## Joshie (Dec 8, 2008)

I think these "free" horses will cost you a whole lot more than buying already broken horses. No, I know these horses will cost more financially and physically. 

We have had horses only five years. I would not feel comfortable choosing my own horseflesh and we have had a lot of training and have a great relationship with our trainer. In fact, we had our trainer choose our first horse. We hadn't laid an eye on him before our trainer brought him home. It is so easy to fall in love with a pretty face when a pretty face does one no good at all. 

We boarded our horse for a good year before we brought him home. I think that is probably the best way to go. One can learn about horse care in an environment where there is an experienced somebody always available. 

You will have to provide for vet and farrier care for a good year before these horses are rideable. Since it sounds like you have a lot of pasture you probably won't have a lot of summer feed costs except during droughts. From fall to spring you will need hay. Hay isn't cheap and isn't easy to come by these days. Personally, we don't grain. 

Inexperienced owners can quickly ruin a horse. Horses are big (our paint weighs about 1200 lbs) and they can kill you without meaning to. If you don't know horsey language you can unwittingly teach them to hurt you. Horses owned by inexperienced owners have been known to need to be put down because of bad habits learned from inexperienced owners. 

You will spend tons less money on a been there done that horse than you will with two youngsters. (Has the male been gelded? Has the mare been exposed to any intact male?) It shouldn't cost you more than a couple thousand (and probably tons less) for an experienced horse. It could cost you $100 every six weeks to trim both horses. Shots alone would likely be at least $300 per horse next spring. Even if you have only feed, regular vet visits (assuming no health problems), farrier, and training costs you can count on having more money in these unproven horses. I think it takes a very good five to seven years for a horse to get a head on its shoulders. 

I think this is a no win situation for you.


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## majiksummer (Sep 13, 2012)

We have always wanted horses for the simple joy of riding and you just can't get that kind of relaxed feeling of plodding along through the woods from an ATV.

If you want to be able to relax and enjoy riding, don't get the two year olds. Period. As a new rider you will not enjoy it. You won't get back a broke horse after 90 days or after a year. My "colt" is 7 coming 8 and he's just getting to the relaxing fun stage of riding him where I can go down the trail and not be fixin things constantly. And I've been riding him and using him for 4 years now. When I'd put 90 days on him that horse could slide stop, change leads, circles, start a nice turnaround( spin), track a calf, pack flag, had been around rodeos, had been in parades, had done a lot. But he wasn't broke. He still tests my husband who's a novice rider a lot. The reason I could do all that on him is I knew how to ride, I'm a good hand, NOT a beginner! Just because your trainer can get on those colts after 90 days and do all this stuff on them does NOT make them a broke horse, does NOT make them safe for beginning riders. I wouldn't buy a horse under 10 years for a new rider, and I'd want one that had been rode a lot in that 10 years of life. It's your money, and your choice, but in my opinion buying a couple of colts for what you want to do and your skill level would be a stupid decision, one that will very easily put you in the hospital or worse.


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## Irish (Feb 10, 2012)

LisaInN.Idaho said:


> I used to ride a friend's horse who paced and while posting was impossible, it wasn't necessary because the pacing was so incredibly smooth. It was a pleasure to ride him on the trail.


If he's a Foxtrotter who is more akin to a pacer, then yep, they are fairly easy to ride. Youtube if full of pacers being marketed as Foxtrotters. It's something to do with the training and inclination. An internet friend of mine raises Foxtrotters and she and her hubby have World Champion horses (roping I think). We were talking about that quite a while back when I took a liking to FT'ers and wanted to know more. I'm talking about a true pacer, a Standardbred who paces.


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## farmergirl (Aug 2, 2005)

I have loved horses from the time I was a young kid, so I understand completely your desire to have them.
With that said, I've been riding for the past 25 years or so (eek! where does the time go?), done lots of training with nationally know dressage trainers, and still I'd need some lessons if I were on a true cutting horse.
Riding a cutting horse is not for a newish rider, and they are ungodly expensive because of the show market for them. In other words, don't buy one!

From your description, an older been there, done that ranch horse would be ideal for you. A horse that has stood by a hundred times while the rancher doctored calves, has seen cows his whole life, and will take care of you. They're out there. In this market, I'd bet you could find an older ranch horse that needs to have a bit easier of a job but still has lots of life left in him for around $2000. That beats the heck out of taking on two untrained, young TWH's. TWH's are not typically used on cattle because they tend to be quite lanky and tall. You want a horse that is easy to get on and off of, not one that you need to find a tree stump to stand on to mount.

I'm a learn by doing kinda gal, too, so I admire you can-do attitude, but do not be impulsive when it comes to taking in a horse.


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## dragonmorgan (Aug 3, 2012)

ok I am convinced these horses will not suit our needs best and I have started looking into some already broke older horses for us instead. Would it be a good idea to go ahead and get these horses and then turn around and sell them and put the money into horses that would be more to our level? At least this way we have helped to find them a home and got some money in our "ideal horse" fund.


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## GrannyCarol (Mar 23, 2005)

I'm afraid you LOSE money for your ideal horse fund. The reason they are being given away in the first place is that to break them or train them or keep them any longer will cost more than you could get back for them in the end. All horses are a money sink, just get the money sink that will give you what you really want and will enjoy - a safe comfortable ride around your ranch and a bit of help with your cows! 

You may not realize that the experts are cutting way back in breeding right now, the horse market is in the toilet and the drought has everyone concerned about where they will get hay at ANY price for this winter. Your free babies are a bad bargain as far as money goes, sorry to say.


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## Sparkie (Aug 16, 2012)

I wouldn't do it, with the way the horse market is you'd more than likely get stuck with them. There are people giving away broke horses. I think there's a good chance you'd get in the position of putting feed and care into them then finally realizing they just had to go and taking them to the sale barn, or trying to find someone else to give them to just to get rid of the expense of taking care of them.


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## Lisa in WA (Oct 11, 2004)

Irish said:


> If he's a Foxtrotter who is more akin to a pacer, then yep, they are fairly easy to ride. Youtube if full of pacers being marketed as Foxtrotters. It's something to do with the training and inclination. An internet friend of mine raises Foxtrotters and she and her hubby have World Champion horses (roping I think). We were talking about that quite a while back when I took a liking to FT'ers and wanted to know more. I'm talking about a true pacer, a Standardbred who paces.


He wasn't FT, he was a grade QH who just happened to pace. He was an English lesson horse which was unfortunate in that you couldn't post on him but he was so smooth and so sweet and levelheaded that he was a favorite with everyone.


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## Irish (Feb 10, 2012)

Sparkie said:


> I wouldn't do it, with the way the horse market is you'd more than likely get stuck with them. There are people giving away broke horses. I think there's a good chance you'd get in the position of putting feed and care into them then finally realizing they just had to go and taking them to the sale barn, or trying to find someone else to give them to just to get rid of the expense of taking care of them.


About giving away horses, of my two, one cost me $1.00 (for proof of buying in a bill of sale) and the other was a free abandoned gelding, who is shaping up to be a whalloping good horse. Now that word is out I'll take a horse, I've had people call and FB/email me to take another. There are loads of horses out there for 'free'...it's the stuff afterward, it ain't so free in the long run and you're basically stuck with them. So, if you're gonna get a horse, get exactly what you want (broke, level-headed, middle-aged, etc.) you're prolly going to have them a while.


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## wr (Aug 10, 2003)

Lisa, we have certain lines of QH's that are known as single footers and they're so smooth, you'll never want to ride anything else.


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## Lisa in WA (Oct 11, 2004)

wr said:


> Lisa, we have certain lines of QH's that are known as single footers and they're so smooth, you'll never want to ride anything else.


We had one! He was terrific.


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## wr (Aug 10, 2003)

In all these years, I've only had three and I sure wish they were easier to find.


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## ErinP (Aug 23, 2007)

I've never even _heard_ of them. What's a single footer??


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## Lisa in WA (Oct 11, 2004)

wr said:


> In all these years, I've only had three and I sure wish they were easier to find.


His name was Jack's Smokey Charger and he came from a line of singlefooting QH's. He wasn't the most beautiful horse in the world but he was so sweet and so broke. We ended up giving him away in his 20's to a woman who knew and loved him when he was young and he's living the good life at her beautiful farm in Michigan. They have his sister too.


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## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

It's about as easy to find a single footed Quarter Horse as it is to find a shuffling Appaloosa.


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## mountainwmn (Sep 11, 2009)

Taking in free horses and trying to re sell them is the fastest way I know to go broke. I wouldn't say that these horses wouldn't work for you, just that it would be a lot cheaper to buy horses you could enjoy now. Over here training (with board) is at least $600 a month...even at 10 months training you can see it adds up. As for gaited horses, I love them. My boy did fine with cows and could do what you are looking for pretty easy. He's a paso not a walker but I've seen walkers just as good. 

And there are actually a few breeders who breed the appaloosa shuffle, I only know cuz I wanted one in the worst way but they don't come to this side of the country much. I have heard of Quarter horses that do it, but I don't think anyone tries for them.


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## dragonmorgan (Aug 3, 2012)

Well we have been convinced to pass on these horses thanks to the helpful advice from everyone here. I had hoped it would work out but it def seems like just waiting and buying two horses more on our level is really the best option. Hopefully the next time I get to post about horses it will be to show off ones that are better suited for our needs and experience. Thank you everyone for all your helpful advice.


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## wolffeathers (Dec 20, 2010)

What lines of quarter horses tend to single foot?


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## Irish (Feb 10, 2012)

LisaInN.Idaho said:


> He wasn't FT, he was a grade QH who just happened to pace. He was an English lesson horse which was unfortunate in that you couldn't post on him but he was so smooth and so sweet and levelheaded that he was a favorite with everyone.





wr said:


> Lisa, we have certain lines of QH's that are known as single footers and they're so smooth, you'll never want to ride anything else.





Irish Pixie said:


> It's about as easy to find a single footed Quarter Horse as it is to find a shuffling Appaloosa.





mountainwmn said:


> Taking in free horses and trying to re sell them is the fastest way I know to go broke. I wouldn't say that these horses wouldn't work for you, just that it would be a lot cheaper to buy horses you could enjoy now. Over here training (with board) is at least $600 a month...even at 10 months training you can see it adds up. As for gaited horses, I love them. My boy did fine with cows and could do what you are looking for pretty easy. He's a paso not a walker but I've seen walkers just as good.
> 
> And there are actually a few breeders who breed the appaloosa shuffle, I only know cuz I wanted one in the worst way but they don't come to this side of the country much. I have heard of Quarter horses that do it, but I don't think anyone tries for them.





wolffeathers said:


> What lines of quarter horses tend to single foot?


How funny! I was thinking the same thing late last night. The grade horse was either a singelfooter or a non-characteristic Appy who shuffled. To my knowledge I don't think I've ever had a QH singlefooter (I've seen them and once saw one in a QH Pleasure class, he didn't place) but I have had shufflers. Yep, there are some breeders who breed for that. I think some of the Tiger horses have that. Haven't kept up with the association so not sure. I don't know which QH lines singlefoot. To my knowledge, singlefooting isn't wanted in a QH nor bred for. But, as I age and my bones hurt, a gaited horse is looking better and better. That's why I contacted my internet friend about her horses. But, hers aren't broke, but, ready to be custom started.


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## Irish (Feb 10, 2012)

Pretty Fancy Two Me Quarter Horse

This is the allbreed pedigree of a singlefooting QH. An internet friend sent this to me on another horse board.


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## Lisa in WA (Oct 11, 2004)

Irish said:


> The grade horse was either a singelfooter or a non-characteristic Appy who shuffled.


Are you talking about the grade horse that I rode? If so, he paced. Both legs on the same side moved forward at the same time at the trot.


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## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

Irish said:


> How funny! I was thinking the same thing late last night. The grade horse was either a singelfooter or a non-characteristic Appy who shuffled. To my knowledge I don't think I've ever had a QH singlefooter (I've seen them and once saw one in a QH Pleasure class, he didn't place) but I have had shufflers. Yep, there are some breeders who breed for that. I think some of the Tiger horses have that. Haven't kept up with the association so not sure. I don't know which QH lines singlefoot. To my knowledge, singlefooting isn't wanted in a QH nor bred for. But, as I age and my bones hurt, a gaited horse is looking better and better. That's why I contacted my internet friend about her horses. But, hers aren't broke, but, ready to be custom started.


Do you mean Kiger's that singlefoot?


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## DaniR1968 (May 24, 2008)

Irish said:


> How funny! I was thinking the same thing late last night. The grade horse was either a singelfooter or a non-characteristic Appy who shuffled. To my knowledge I don't think I've ever had a QH singlefooter (I've seen them and once saw one in a QH Pleasure class, he didn't place) but I have had shufflers. Yep, there are some breeders who breed for that. I think some of the Tiger horses have that. Haven't kept up with the association so not sure. I don't know which QH lines singlefoot. To my knowledge, singlefooting isn't wanted in a QH nor bred for. But, as I age and my bones hurt, a gaited horse is looking better and better. That's why I contacted my internet friend about her horses. But, hers aren't broke, but, ready to be custom started.


Gaited horse can and do work cattle. A tall horse is not going to be as quick and agile, but you can find smaller ones. I have a 14.2 hh Fox trotter. Of course he's not really beginner friendly. He will take a mile if you give an inch. But I know plenty of people who have shorter gaited horses that are great for beginners. You just have to look. 

With young horses, you can't tell how they will be as adults. A horse that is perfectly quiet on the ground can be high energy with a rider. I had a Paso Fino like that. Super calm for any ground work but you could feel the energy when you got on. And she didn't like to do anything slow. Not all of them are like that. I ride with someone on a PF and her horse is calmer under saddle. 

It was sort of the same with my fox trotter. I got him as a yearling. He has a puppy dog personality. Sweet as can be. He is a very good horse under saddle and will go where I point him. However, at 6 years old he will still check to see what he can get away with. A person that can't be firm with him, will wind up in trouble down the road.

Good luck in your horse seach.


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## wr (Aug 10, 2003)

wolffeathers, the three I've had all had strong Hancock influence but I don't think it's all that common any more because the lines have been diluted so much. We have one old girl right now that is insane smooth to ride and I would have loved to have bred her but she's way too busy training up the next generation of ranchers.


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## Irish (Feb 10, 2012)

Irish Pixie said:


> Do you mean Kiger's that singlefoot?


The Tiger Horse Registry This is a vanity registry. I means the lady who owns this site has made up a registry to 'register' her horses. Her name is on the bottom of the page. She bought mares and a stud years ago and made this registry. She owns the whole thing, lock, stock and barrel. A way to market her horses from what I've heard and read. 

The one I'm referring, is also a Tiger horse one too. But they are more like a real registry with a board of directors and youth group. I can't find the website. They had a tiff with the above lady over names and had to come up with something else. Pam Someoneorother and I used to be internet friends, even met on a couple of occasions but have lost track of her. She lives in AR. 

The real name isn't "Tiger" but "Tigre". Something to do with when the horses came from China and the name was corrupted into Tiger. Pam filled me in on all the pertinent details but it's been a good nine years since we talked. But, the horse have to shuffle to be considered for registry. They did allow other gaits such as FT'ing, singlefooting and I think racking. Tolt was not allowed, I'm thinking. But shuffling was the big thing. 

If I ever find the website, I'll post it.

Not to argue about the pacing, but if it's a true pace, I don't see how it could be comfy. The footfalls make the true pace so uncomfortable because you're 'thrown' from side to side at speed. The other gaits, there is only a fraction of a second between how the footfalls land and, example, some FT'ers look like they are pacing, you can barely tell the difference but it is comfy. But, hey, if he was a pacing QH, especially if he was grade and no papers are around so how can you be sure, well, so be it. Stranger things have happened with horses!! :indif:

I'm not looking for horses at this time, I guess I gave that impression. I have my two and that's it for moi. I looked at the FT'ers because of smoothness and my aging body. Didn't buy one, though.


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## Lisa in WA (Oct 11, 2004)

Irish said:


> Not to argue about the pacing, but if it's a true pace, I don't see how it could be comfy. The footfalls make the true pace so uncomfortable because you're 'thrown' from side to side at speed. The other gaits, there is only a fraction of a second between how the footfalls land and, example, some FT'ers look like they are pacing, you can barely tell the difference but it is comfy. But, hey, if he was a pacing QH, especially if he was grade and no papers are around so how can you be sure, well, so be it. Stranger things have happened with horses!! :indif:
> 
> .


Since you're new here, maybe you don't get that many other people here actually have knowledgeable backgrounds and that your attitude and posting style might tend toward being a little insulting, but you might keep that in mind when you're tempted to get obnoxious and display your vast and terrible knowledge. 
The horse was truly pacing, and was confirmed by the very professional trainers there at the facility, since you clearly discount my own experience. 

And he was most definitely comfortable to ride. I have heard of other people who actually prefer pacers. It's certainly not the norm but after riding Cricket on trails, I can definitely see why.
As far as his breeding...I would personally suspect he had some standardbred in him which would more likely account for his gait. He was most definitely not fox-trotting.


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## jennigrey (Jan 27, 2005)

Is "pace" different from the Icelandic "flying pace"? Because watching those suckers motivate along is really smooth-looking.


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## Joshie (Dec 8, 2008)

dragonmorgan said:


> ok I am convinced these horses will not suit our needs best and I have started looking into some already broke older horses for us instead. Would it be a good idea to go ahead and get these horses and then turn around and sell them and put the money into horses that would be more to our level? At least this way we have helped to find them a home and got some money in our "ideal horse" fund.


I think you'd lose money in the deal. Unstarted horses are a dime a dozen so you might end up paying for the upkeep of these horses then need to give them away. 

If these horses were truly valuable I'd think your friend would sell them.


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## wr (Aug 10, 2003)

Irish, why come in and start telling people how it is. Nothing puts off potential new horse owners like someone using a condescenting tone with everybody around them. There's nothing wrong with discussion but you might want to consider your delivery and ease up a bit.

If you chase everybody else off, you'll have nobody to argue with.


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## bergere (May 11, 2002)

I have been on many pacing Icelandic's over the last 20+ years. Have also ridden a number of other gaited breeds.

Some Flying pacers, some just normal/slower(what Icelanders call Piggy) pacers... I found some of the pacers were pretty smooth, but if you look at a video, their timing is slightly off.
The others, that have a lot of suspension, just about jar the teeth out of ones head!

So it just depends on each horse, wither they will be smooth or not in Pace.

Same with Tolt in Icelandic's, example with the two present ones... Dyfra is the smoothest Icelandic I have ever been on. Her slow and medium speed of Tolt is like sitting on a sofa and gliding along. I don't like her Power Tolt though.
Stjarna's slow Tolt isn't as smooth but her Power Tolt, is every bit as smooth as Dyfra's slow tolt.

Both do flying pace, not something I ride much any more. Stjarna, has won a number of flying pace races in her youth... she is very fast. But it is not as smooth as her Tolt.
My gaited horses, will walk as slow or fast as I want. Most of the places I ride still, I don't need a horse screaming along. 

There are some old lines of single footing Quarter Horse's... can find them in very old,, the 1960's or earlier publications.
Now a days, they have pretty much written out the information of these lines, which I think is a big loss.
(I have posted the lines here in the past, but I am not sure where I put that info now, that I have moved)

As for small gaited Horse's moving cattle... I know a number of Icelandic's that do this and do it well all the time. They love it. Have to remember in Iceland, they use their horses, even still.. to help bring in their sheep and cattle.


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## Sparkie (Aug 16, 2012)

wr said:


> Irish, why come in and start telling people how it is. Nothing puts off potential new horse owners like someone using a condescenting tone with everybody around them. There's nothing wrong with discussion but you might want to consider your delivery and ease up a bit.
> 
> If you chase everybody else off, you'll have nobody to argue with.


Wasn't Irish stating an opinion? I didn't read condescension in any of his posts, but there was in others.


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## Lisa in WA (Oct 11, 2004)

Sparkie said:


> Wasn't Irish stating an opinion? I didn't read condescension in any of his posts, but there was in others.


Then you don't know what the word means.


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## Irish (Feb 10, 2012)

Okie dokie!! 

Here is the thread from the other board. My name is goneriding 24 on there. Singlefooting QH bloodlines?? - Chronicle Forums Over there, no one pulls any punches. People disagree and life goes on. 

If I come off as condescending/snarky, so be it. I'll take it. If you take the time to read the above post from Coth, you'll see where I asked about pacing in QH's after other mentioned it too. 

Yes, I do have vast knowledge and others do too. Horse people are overly touchy when someone questions them and generally not open to new knowledge. You've heard the saying "Two horsepeople, three opinions." If you don't believe me about the Tiger horses, look it up yourself. It's on the 'net. If I knew Pam's website, I'd refer you there. I passed on info as I knew it. 

Being new here has nothing to do with it. If you want a closed group, then close it and only open it to folks who agree with you. If you want to learn from others, whether you agree or not, then keep the group open. Actually, I've toned it down quite a bit to keep in-line and not shake the boat. So, that says to me, some people on this board can't quite deal with someone disagreeing with them. I loff a good debate but it's not reciprocated.


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## Irish (Feb 10, 2012)

Sparkie said:


> Wasn't Irish stating an opinion? I didn't read condescension in any of his posts, but there was in others.


By the by, I'm a middle middle-aged lady. :banana:



LisaInN.Idaho said:


> Then you don't know what the word means.


Are you sure you do, too??


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## Sparkie (Aug 16, 2012)

wr said:


> Irish, why come in and start telling people how it is. Nothing puts off potential new horse owners like someone using a condescenting tone with everybody around them. There's nothing wrong with discussion but you might want to consider your delivery and ease up a bit.
> 
> If you chase everybody else off, you'll have nobody to argue with.


WR in relation to your last sentence, take a look around. Why do you think of all the ht members who have horses only a very few post here? Look at Lisa's snarky response to my last post for an example.


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## Lisa in WA (Oct 11, 2004)

Sparkie said:


> WR in relation to your last sentence, take a look around. Why do you think of all the ht members who have horses only a very few post here? Look at Lisa's snarky response to my last post for an example.


Really. How would you know this, having only been here for a month? 

Newsflash though: when someone is being rude and condescending (or hypocritically accusing someone else of snarkiness), usually they will get it back, in most any forum here.


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## Lisa in WA (Oct 11, 2004)

Irish said:


> Okie dokie!!
> 
> Here is the thread from the other board. My name is goneriding 24 on there. Singlefooting QH bloodlines?? - Chronicle Forums Over there, no one pulls any punches. People disagree and life goes on.
> 
> ...


I think you miss the point here. We all know here and it's been discussed in the past that there are SFing QH's. I had one. 

My beef with you is that you flat told me I was wrong. What you didn't ask was what speed Cricket paced at. You seem to assume that all pacing is at a higher rate of speed. Cricket was a lazy lesson horse and paced slowly and it was quite comfortable as the rider was gently rocked from side to side.
Someone on COTH said their horse paced at times and you're still not going to believe it. Sounds like you aren't open to any new info. 

And yeah...being new does have something to do with it. You have no idea how much experience people here have and what they've done. So it's kinda stupid to come here and start telling people they're flat wrong.


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## Sparkie (Aug 16, 2012)

Thanks, point made.


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## wr (Aug 10, 2003)

Sparkie said:


> WR in relation to your last sentence, take a look around. Why do you think of all the ht members who have horses only a very few post here? Look at Lisa's snarky response to my last post for an example.


We only have one rule here and it's pretty simple - be nice. I have no problem with debate or discussion but I do have a problem when delivery isn't respectful or civil. No debate has ever been won by being louder, ruder or less pleasant and I feel that if people want someone to hear their message, the best way to be heard is to not put others on the defensive - as was done to Lisa. 

Horse people have a reputation for being arrogant and condescending and this group has gone on for years and we have a pretty good reputation for not being an exclusive club who refuses entry to all but the most exclusive and I plan on keeping it that way for many years to come.


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## Irish (Feb 10, 2012)

LisaInN.Idaho said:


> I think you miss the point here. We all know here and it's been discussed in the past that there are SFing QH's. I had one.
> 
> My beef with you is that you flat told me I was wrong. What you didn't ask was what speed Cricket paced at. You seem to assume that all pacing is at a higher rate of speed. Cricket was a lazy lesson horse and paced slowly and it was quite comfortable as the rider was gently rocked from side to side.
> Someone on COTH said their horse paced at times and you're still not going to believe it. Sounds like you aren't open to any new info.
> ...


Looks like you missed my post on Coth asking about pacing. Read again. 

I didn't say you were flat wrong but I did question your assertion that horse was QH, and I think I read where you stated he might have had STB in him. '

Yeah, I do have an idea of what experience is pretty well evident here. I've been on this board a lot longer than you think.


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## Irish (Feb 10, 2012)

Well, let me clarify that I've been on this board longer than anyone thinks. I've READ this board a lot longer than anyone thinks but have been a member here for a while. You don't have to be a member to read the boards.


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## Lisa in WA (Oct 11, 2004)

Irish said:


> Looks like you missed my post on Coth asking about pacing. Read again.
> 
> I didn't say you were flat wrong but I did question your assertion that horse was QH, and I think I read where you stated he might have had STB in him. '
> 
> Yeah, I do have an idea of what experience is pretty well evident here. I've been on this board a lot longer than you think.


Really? Who were you before you were Irish?


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## Lisa in WA (Oct 11, 2004)

Irish said:


> Well, let me clarify that I've been on this board longer than anyone thinks. I've READ this board a lot longer than anyone thinks but have been a member here for a while. You don't have to be a member to read the boards.


That's a little creepy. So you come on here, after having lurked for a long time, don't introduce yourself, don't share what experience you have, I don't even think you mention where you're from. Yet you jump right in and expect us to be dazzled. Nice.


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## Irish (Feb 10, 2012)

LisaInN.Idaho said:


> Really? Who were you before you were Irish?


I've always been Irish on this board. I joined in in February of this year. 



LisaInN.Idaho said:


> That's a little creepy. So you come on here, after having lurked for a long time, don't introduce yourself, don't share what experience you have, I don't even think you mention where you're from. Yet you jump right in and expect us to be dazzled. Nice.


Not creepy at all. I read the board off and on for quite a while and one day decided to join in. You're bugged by my lurking?? !!??!! That's a bit odd thing to say. I have shared my experiences but you are bothered by my relating of my experiences. Really, if I did tell you my experiences, I suspect you'd think I was lying. I'm not impressed with anyone who comes onto a board and the first thing out of their typing fingers is "I'm so and so and I won XYZ." My first response is "Yeah, and I'm the Queen of England." If you read closely, you can tell if people are true horsemen or not. I don't have to tell anyone where I'm from, it's irrelevant. :catfight: I don't care where anyone else is from either. 

I have had some messages of support and they have reinforced my suspicions about some folks on this board. :runforhills:


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## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

Irish said:


> If you read closely, you can tell if people are true horsemen or not.


Yes you can usually within a few posts. If they're blow hards you simply ignore them.


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## Lisa in WA (Oct 11, 2004)

Irish said:


> I have had some messages of support and they have reinforced my suspicions about some folks on this board. :runforhills:


I'm sure. You're not the first to pull the rude, patronizing, look-how-much-I-know, blow hard act.


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## ErinP (Aug 23, 2007)

Guys, I gotta say I didn't really read condescension in that first post either... :shrug: (

Though I will confess I have _no_ idea how "Tiger" entered the conversation, but then no one has answered my question about what single footing is, so maybe it connects in there somewhere.


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## Lisa in WA (Oct 11, 2004)

ErinP said:


> Guys, I gotta say I didn't really read condescension in that first post either... :shrug: (
> 
> Though I will confess I have _no_ idea how "Tiger" entered the conversation, but then no one has answered my question about what single footing is, so maybe it connects in there somewhere.


What do you mean by "first post"?


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## Lisa in WA (Oct 11, 2004)

ErinP said:


> Guys, I gotta say I didn't really read condescension in that first post either... :shrug: (
> 
> Though I will confess I have _no_ idea how "Tiger" entered the conversation, but then no one has answered my question about what single footing is, so maybe it connects in there somewhere.





Irish said:


> The grade horse was either a singelfooter or a non-characteristic Appy who shuffled.





Irish said:


> Not to argue about the pacing, but if it's a true pace, I don't see how it could be comfy. The footfalls make the true pace so uncomfortable because you're 'thrown' from side to side at speed. The other gaits, there is only a fraction of a second between how the footfalls land and, example, some FT'ers look like they are pacing, you can barely tell the difference but it is comfy. But, hey, if he was a pacing QH, especially if he was grade and no papers are around so how can you be sure, well, so be it. Stranger things have happened with horses!! :indif:


These were the posts that I took issue with. And yeah...basically telling someone they are wrong when you have no idea of the situation, is not only stupid, but condescending.


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## ErinP (Aug 23, 2007)

People do that here all the time. Seriously. Just read through the first few threads.

But I try to give them the benefit of the doubt though that they're not trying to be rude or condescending. I understand that that's what bothered you, but I'm _still_ not reading this as condescending or stupid.


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## Lisa in WA (Oct 11, 2004)

ErinP said:


> People do that here all the time. Seriously. Just read through the first few threads.
> 
> But I try to give them the benefit of the doubt though that they're not trying to be rude or condescending. I understand that that's what bothered you, but I'm _still_ not reading this as condescending or stupid.


Well, good. You weren't part of it so I guess that works out well for you. 

Doesn't really matter though. I just read some of her posts and decided that Irish Pixie had a good idea.


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## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

ErinP said:


> Guys, I gotta say I didn't really read condescension in that first post either... :shrug: (
> 
> Though I will confess I have _no_ idea how "Tiger" entered the conversation, but then no one has answered my question about what single footing is, so maybe it connects in there somewhere.


I tried to figure out a way to explain singlefooting, but failed miserably. This is from Wiki:

'There are a significant number of names for various four-beat intermediate gaits. Though these names derive from differences in footfall patterns and speed, historically they were once grouped together and collectively referred to as the "amble." Today, especially in the United States, horses that are able to do an ambling gait are referred to as "gaited."[15] In almost all cases, the primary feature of the ambling gaits is that 3 of the 4 feet are on the ground at any time, reflected in the colloquial term, "singlefoot."

All ambling gaits are faster than a walk but usually slower than a canter. They are smoother for a rider than either a trot or a pace and most can be sustained for relatively long periods of time, making them particularly desirable for trail riding and other tasks where a rider must spend long periods of time in the saddle.[15] There are two basic types: lateral, wherein the front and hind feet on the same side move in sequence, and diagonal, where the front and hind feet on opposite sides move in sequence.[16] Ambling gaits are further distinguished by whether the footfall rhythm is isochronous, four equal beats in a 1â2â3â4 rhythm; or a non isochronous 1â2, 3â4 rhythm created by a slight pause between the groundstrike of the forefoot of one side to the rear of the other.'

The Tiger reference threw me too. :hrm:


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## Minelson (Oct 16, 2007)

This whole thread is creepy and I think it should be shut down. I didn't see any blow hard, condescending, you are wrong I am right posts at all! I don't know squat about pacing or any of that and was trying to learn then all of a sudden everyone's panties got in a bind and got sensitive and over reading over dramatic. This sucks.


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## Sparkie (Aug 16, 2012)

I've been reading this forum off and on since the usenet days. Over time you learn the mo of certain posters. Others are aware too, I've also gotten a few pm's regarding this thread. Shame that "be nice" doesn't always seem to be applied evenly across the board.


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## wr (Aug 10, 2003)

Done like dinner.


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