# How many Kwh?



## SkizzlePig (May 14, 2006)

So ... I'm going to be building an off-grid farm in the next year to two. I've been in contact with Alter Systems about pricing for a massive solar array, but I wanted to see what ya'll thought.

I averaged that my family uses about .5Kw per 1000 square feet of house. Assuming also that all of our heating and cooking will be done with gas. Additionally, I don't want have to conserve electricity ... all the lights on if I so please. We're also going to be building a cabin for visiting friends. Alter Systems estimated our total need at 6Kwh and I had them give me a quote for 10. It's not cheap ... but I look at it as an investment.

That said, does the .5 Kwh per 1000 square feet of residential space make sense?


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## WisJim (Jan 14, 2004)

Is that .5kw a day, a week, continuously, or what? If you mean .5kw-hr a day, that would be 150kw-hr a month, and you should be able to figure out what you might use from what you actually are using now. I think that 150 kw-hr a month sounds reasonable, but I'm not sure how much sun you get. I also am confused by the "estimated our total need at 6kwh". What do you mean by "6kwh"--kilowatts or kilowatt hours??


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## 12vman (Feb 17, 2004)

Quote..
"I don't want have to conserve electricity ... all the lights on if I so please."
Ya better have some deep pockets.. WOW!


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## SkizzlePig (May 14, 2006)

I wish I knew how to answer your question, Jim. I don't know if it's 6kw/day or month or ... The Alter Systems guy said they would spec out a 6Kw system. The design is a 6Kw solar array with sun trackers and a week's worth of battery storage and a backup inverter. Total estimate for the system (not installed) about $90,000 to $120,000. I have to admit it's still very Greek to me.

12vman ... not necessarily deep pockets, but I view this as an investment and, as you know, one can realize some nice tax write-offs, rebates and grants to install larger solar arrays.


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## wy_white_wolf (Oct 14, 2004)

I'm making the assuption that it's .5kw per hour average usage per 1000 sq. ft. of home. That works out to 360 kwh per month (.5*24*30).

A 6kw system would put out @ 720 kwh per month (6*4*30), assumming 4 hours average full power every day. So you must be planning on about a 2000 square foot home?

I would say this is a VERY crude method of estimating usage. Types of appliances and how often used would affect energy usage more than square footage. Light bulbs use very little compared to dishwasher, frigerators, freezers, washing machines, well pumps , etc. 

Your statement about not wanting to conserve really flies in the face of solar generation. Those of us that do use solar have learned that we are way ahead of the game if we do conserve.

Conserving does "NOT" mean doing without. Using lower power usage bulb (such as flourencants sp? {see other thread}) allows use to keep the lights on and our usage down, Thereby CONSERVING electricity. Thoughtful choices in buying appliances may make a 6KW system work just fine for you. It would for me but my on-grid usage runs 300 to 400 kwh a month. My off grid homestead operates on a little 50 watt system right now. But then we have found alternatives for just about everything.


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## mightybooboo (Feb 10, 2004)

The write offs are for grid connected systems,Im not personally aware of any for offgrid,correct me if Im wrong,they change the rules often.

BooBoo


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## SkizzlePig (May 14, 2006)

Conserving ... yes, allow me to clarify. I'm looking at only purchasing Energy Star rated appliances and we already use compact fluorescents. When I say "Conserving" I'm referring to the "can you turn off the TV, so I can run the blender, please". I just know I wouldn't tolerate that. But I have no intention of being wasteful. We're also going to take steps to ensure the house has a lot of strategically placed windows to maximize sunlight.

As for size of home, it'll likely be 3000 sq. ft. then add the barn lights, well pump, WELL insulated (actually buried) commercial freezer for cattle beef, etc. Sounds like I may need to step up a bit in the size of the solar array.

Thank you for being so open-handed with your advice and criticisms. I really appreciate it. How else am I to learn?


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## Kevingr (Mar 10, 2006)

Ya know, I'm always amazed at how little electricity people use who currently live "on the grid". I have:
dishwasher
electric dryer
well pump 
pump to run the hot water boiler
electric hot water (off peak, costs me 5 bucks a month for hot water)
two water softeners (don't go there!)
400 watt security light that burns all night
8000kw window air conditioner
5000kw window air conditioner
and all the other goodies, TV (2), VCR(2), DVD(2), 3 computers etc. etc. etc.
winter months we run a heater in the water for the bunnies

I live in central MN so summer sees a lot of air conditioner use and of course the winter sees the pump on the boiler running a lot. We have what I think is the typical things a family of 4 would have.

Electricity costs .08kwh October thru May and .10kwh June thru September. Propane costs around $1.80 a gallon around here.

If I use LESS than 1200kwh in one month I've been on vacation!!!!

Now, I understand people living off the grid who conserve get by on much less, but that's a concious effort on their part. How do people get by on less with all the modern conviences of today's society with making a real effort to do so? I have a 2000 sq foot house so that's 600kwh/1000sq ft per month.

When I hear of people say they get by on 350kwh a month or less and are planning on moving to the country and think they're going to get by on 350kwh or less without doing anything to do that are not being realistic. In the city you don't have a well pump, in the country you do. In the city you don't have a pump moving your sewage up to your drainfield or mound system. In the city you don't have animals that need water through the winter. In the city you don't need to run any mosquito eaters because the county takes care of that for you etc. etc.

Now I'm not saying it's impossible, people do it all the time. But it truely takes effort and support of the family. Unfortunetly for me my wife is not on board with all the alternative energy things I'd like to do because it involves conservation. She's more of the type that wants to turn it on and it works whenever she wants it. But I did convince her to buy a Prius! One small step!


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## WisJim (Jan 14, 2004)

Our home is about 2000 sf of heated area, not including basement. It's an old 2 story farm house in NW Wisconsin. Our electric usage, grid plus our wind and PV system, totals about 300 to 350 kw-hrs a month. We buy about 100kw-hrs/month or less, unless the month is calm and cloudy. We don't have airconditioning as we have good shade trees on the south and west of the house, and the house is well insulated(!). We pump our water, have TVs and computer (but we mostly us the TVs to watch movies that we borrow from the library), and we have a shop and garage, with welder, metal and wood turning lathes, table and radial arm saws, thickness planer, jointer, drill presses, miter saw, and other power tools. We also have 2 refrigerators and 2 freezers, and lights in the chicken coop. Our purchased electricity costs about 12 cewnts a kw-hr after adding the meter reading fee and other fees and taxes.

I never can figure how someone could use over a thousand kw-hrs a month if they are serious about conservation.


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## Kevingr (Mar 10, 2006)

That's my point. Unless you make an effort to conserve I don't see how you can get by on 350kwh/mo. If you use it because you can and don't want to be concerned about turning off the lights when you leave a room I don't see how a person can only use 350kwh/mo. Unless they live in the city and don't have the added need for pumps and outdoor lighting, or have only one or two people in the house. Trying to get a 6 year old to turn off the lights in his room when he leaves it is no small chore!!


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## Kevingr (Mar 10, 2006)

Oh, one other thing Jim, what do you use for clothes drying?


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## rambler (Jan 20, 2004)

Kevingr said:


> Ya know, I'm always amazed at how little electricity people use who currently live "on the grid". I have:
> dishwasher
> electric dryer
> well pump
> ...



I'm a few counties south of you.

Farm house, 30x30 feet, 2 full floors, poor to none insulation - 1800 sqft.

Electric water heater
260 foot deep well.
Rarely used small window air conditioner.
Good dehumidifier in the basement most of the summer.
Electric stove/oven.
Refirgirator.
Deep freeze in the basement.
Electric drier - not used too much.
The computers, TVs, etc.

Then the welder, ginder, air compressor, electric fencer, water for 20-30 head of cattle, shop full of electric tools to keep the farm running, couple of 1-2 hp electric motors to move grain, and so on.

It's rare if I get over 500 kw a month. Mostly 350-400.

Different strokes for different folks. 

--->Paul


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## SouthWesteader (Jul 21, 2005)

I use 2000 kwh/mo in the winter, and 4500 kwh/mo in the summer. Shows ya how much my AC unit uses.  But it's understandable, considering that it's 18 years old. I'm in the process of converting to laptops, and hopefully I'll be able to replace that power sucker... I'm just waiting for NanoSolar for my solar panels.


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## Kevingr (Mar 10, 2006)

Maybe I need to get one of those kilowatt meters to find out what's sucking so much juice! I'd love to only use 500kwh/mo! I just assumed it was my wife's wasteful ways, but maybe not.


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