# Dorper vs Katahdin sheep?



## circlej (Dec 28, 2021)

I’m looking to start a new flock of hair sheep at my homestead. My biggest priority is a sheep that produces delicious tasting meat. Also want a calm breed that is friendly. I’m fairly new to raising sheep but i know there were previously American blackbelly and Suffolk on the land and they both did really well. I’m on about 50 acres. Please let me know which breed would be a better fit for what I’m looking for: dorper or katahdin? Also open to any other breeds you recommend. Thank you very much for your help.


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## Pony (Jan 6, 2003)

I've not raised Dorpers, but my neighbor has. From her experience, and from mine, I'd say Katahdins are your best bet. Mellow, blow coat once a year, and the meat is mild yet flavorful.

I am not aware of a hair breed that requires shearing.

I have met Blackbellies, and have observed nothing about their size nor temperament to make me consider them as even a remote possibility.


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## farmerDale (Jan 8, 2011)

We have raised both. Dorpers are theoretically better muscled, meatier carcass, faster growing, but we haven’t seen that to be true. Dorpers DO NOT shed their coats as well and consistently as katahdins. This matters up here as our point of having hair sheep is to eliminate useless shearing. But the dorpers always have say ten % that need shearing still. Oh what a pain!

For us, we have been breeding the dorper out over time. They are a lovely sheep, they just don’t fit what we need.


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## circlej (Dec 28, 2021)

farmerDale said:


> We have raised both. Dorpers are theoretically better muscled, meatier carcass, faster growing, but we haven’t seen that to be true. Dorpers DO NOT shed their coats as well and consistently as katahdins. This matters up here as our point of having hair sheep is to eliminate useless shearing. But the dorpers always have say ten % that need shearing still. Oh what a pain!
> 
> For us, we have been breeding the dorper out over time. They are a lovely sheep, they just don’t fit what we need.


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## Pony (Jan 6, 2003)

circlej said:


> I’m looking to start a new flock of hair sheep at my homestead. My biggest priority is a sheep that produces delicious tasting meat. Also want a *calm breed that is friendly.*


Then stay away from blackbellies and Suffolk.

The rest of the hair breeds can be gentled if you either bottle raise the lambs, or handle them A LOT. 

Do not make friends with rams. It can be dangerous and/or deadly.


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

I have both. I stared with registered Katahdins, and now use a registered Dorper ram. I used a Blackhead Dorper last time, and using a white Dorper this time.

You can't go wrong using either breed. I love the cross.


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## circlej (Dec 28, 2021)

@HDRider thank you for your response. I am wondering whether it is worth it to have registered full blood or pure dorper/katahdins? I won’t be running a big operation.


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## circlej (Dec 28, 2021)

Pony said:


> Then stay away from blackbellies and Suffolk.
> 
> The rest of the hair breeds can be gentled if you either bottle raise the lambs, or handle them A LOT.
> 
> Do not make friends with rams. It can be dangerous and/or deadly.


Thank you for the advice. I’m assuming that also applies to dorper/katahdin rams.Do you get a new sire every 1-2 years for your flock? And do you keep your ram separated until mating?


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## circlej (Dec 28, 2021)

farmerDale said:


> We have raised both. Dorpers are theoretically better muscled, meatier carcass, faster growing, but we haven’t seen that to be true. Dorpers DO NOT shed their coats as well and consistently as katahdins. This matters up here as our point of having hair sheep is to eliminate useless shearing. But the dorpers always have say ten % that need shearing still. Oh what a pain!
> 
> For us, we have been breeding the dorper out over time. They are a lovely sheep, they just don’t fit what we need.


That’s great information. That also makes it much clearer for me to select katahdin over dorper. But i am curious, would breeding these two together resolve the shedding issue that dorpers sometimes have? It seems to me that a cross would be the best of both worlds


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

circlej said:


> @HDRider thank you for your response. I am wondering whether it is worth it to have registered full blood or pure dorper/katahdins? I won’t be running a big operation.


If you see they are good stock buy them.

I do not register my stock, though all their bloodlines have been. I sell for the table. If you are selling for breeders you probably want to register.


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

Where are you located?


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## farmerDale (Jan 8, 2011)

circlej said:


> That’s great information. That also makes it much clearer for me to select katahdin over dorper. But i am curious, would breeding these two together resolve the shedding issue that dorpers sometimes have? It seems to me that a cross would be the best of both worlds


It does help for sure. I need to also be clear. We do not have very great dormer breeders up here, but we do have excellent katahdin breeders. And so maybe the dorpers weren’t 100% legit? We have grown now to the point where we don’t need to buy in any more ewes, and we just replace a ram or two a year and so we have our own home grown line developing if you will…

I do like the looks of some white dorper lines. But when I look at American lines that look good, it’s hard to compare hair coats as down there it appears they don’t end up with much of a coat like sheep do up here after they are adapted to our Siberian conditions.


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## circlej (Dec 28, 2021)

HDRider said:


> If you see they are good stock buy them.
> 
> I do not register my stock, though all their bloodlines have been. I sell for the table. If you are selling for breeders you probably want to register.


Good to know. I will be selling for the table also. I am located in Socal just east of San Diego.


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## circlej (Dec 28, 2021)

farmerDale said:


> It does help for sure. I need to also be clear. We do not have very great dormer breeders up here, but we do have excellent katahdin breeders. And so maybe the dorpers weren’t 100% legit? We have grown now to the point where we don’t need to buy in any more ewes, and we just replace a ram or two a year and so we have our own home grown line developing if you will…
> 
> I do like the looks of some white dorper lines. But when I look at American lines that look good, it’s hard to compare hair coats as down there it appears they don’t end up with much of a coat like sheep do up here after they are adapted to our Siberian conditions.


I see. Does the climate also play a role in their ability to shed? I am east of SD and rarely ever get snow. 
Also, do you get your rams from a different breeder each time you replace so that the bloodline has no similarities? forgive me for my arrogance as I am pretty new to sheep.


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## farmerDale (Jan 8, 2011)

circlej said:


> I see. Does the climate also play a role in their ability to shed? I am east of SD and rarely ever get snow.
> Also, do you get your rams from a different breeder each time you replace so that the bloodline has no similarities? forgive me for my arrogance as I am pretty new to sheep.


Its funny, because some of our sheep shed in two days total, in late May, and others take two months to shed, and may not end up fully shed until July. I think besides breed and climate, they are individually different with shedding.

Goodness, don’t feel bad asking questions! Regarding rams, we get from two or three different breeders, but they also have several lines each, so the rams end up with totally different lines. I assume this is how most breeders would do it, for their own breeding firstly, but that caries down the line for us buyers.

We have also kept back our own rams, but they never do as well in terms of growth as folks sheep with great bloodlines. the cost of a ram is pretty economical, relative to what you get out of him, 50 ish ewes per ram is what we do. So a five hundred dollar ram, (we buy ram lambs), per lamb cost is peanuts really.


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## Pony (Jan 6, 2003)

circlej said:


> Thank you for the advice. I’m assuming that also applies to dorper/katahdin rams.Do you get a new sire every 1-2 years for your flock? And do you keep your ram separated until mating?


No ram is your friend. You can get himm to be manageable by training him to come to the feed bucket, but if he thinks you are his buddy, he will have no qualms about knocking the snot out of you. Always have an escape route planned, a hot stick handy, and never turn your back on an intact ram.

I would trade out my ram every couple of years. Local friends who also raise sheep were happy to trade either rams, or ram lambs. 

The beauty of hair sheep is that you can butcher a 3 year old intact ram and still have very good meat. Not at all gamey, and the meat is not tough. No need to resort to grinding the whole carcass - unless that is what you like to eat.

I was only running one ram at a time, so I left him with the sheep until just before lambing, when I'd toss him in the bachelor paddock with my goat bucks.


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## circlej (Dec 28, 2021)

farmerDale said:


> Its funny, because some of our sheep shed in two days total, in late May, and others take two months to shed, and may not end up fully shed until July. I think besides breed and climate, they are individually different with shedding.
> 
> Goodness, don’t feel bad asking questions! Regarding rams, we get from two or three different breeders, but they also have several lines each, so the rams end up with totally different lines. I assume this is how most breeders would do it, for their own breeding firstly, but that caries down the line for us buyers.
> 
> We have also kept back our own rams, but they never do as well in terms of growth as folks sheep with great bloodlines. the cost of a ram is pretty economical, relative to what you get out of him, 50 ish ewes per ram is what we do. So a five hundred dollar ram, (we buy ram lambs), per lamb cost is peanuts really.


Gotcha! What do you mean by keeping back your rams? 
Also, if i were cross katahdin and dorper, Would you advise to alternate the ram breed every 1-2 years to maintain that cross? Dorper ram one year, katahdin ram next?


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## farmerDale (Jan 8, 2011)

circlej said:


> Gotcha! What do you mean by keeping back your rams?
> Also, if i were cross katahdin and dorper, Would you advise to alternate the ram breed every 1-2 years to maintain that cross? Dorper ram one year, katahdin ram next?


Oh hey. Happy new year! I just meant keeping back what we thought were good bloodline ram lambs of our own breeding. It hasn’t worked well for us…

If you are crossing the two, it depends on what your market is, and whether you are growing your flock. swapping ram breeds each year on the same ewes if you are keeping back ewe lambs and growing is an intriguing idea for sure.

What happens when you get going with sheep, is time flies and rams come and go quite often. Some we have kept for 7 years, limiting breeding in the last two years to maybe 20 or 30 ewes, if we really like that ram. Sometimes you keep a ram for one or two breedings because he doesn’t fit what you need, or has other negative attributes.

Yes, great point made by Pony. Do not trust any ram, but especially if they are bottle rams or quite tame. We have a couple of stand offish rams right now and one that is too tame. The shy ones, while I don’t ignore them, have never taken a run at anyone or looked at us wrong. But we still pay close attention when in with them. And then we have Eddie, who is in his last few weeks of his breeding life. He is tame, the prior owner bucket led him. Which is fine, but you need to know how to or how not to approach him. He will come running to me, but never head down, he comes running and tries to get close to me to see if I have a bucket of treats for him. But I still do not trust him, even if he never has rammed me. I quite look forward to him leaving. He made such great babies and we are grateful for that side of it. But I hate the feeling like he is gunna snap one day.

Our first ram, Sam. Was a belligerent ox. He was too tame because of us, and he was a menace and I ended up shooting him on fall as I had had enough riding on his back, face down, pounding on his flanks as hard as i could. He cornered me more than once, and it is tough escaping a foolish and determined ram if you are a ways from a fence. The good thing is, they charge head down, so you can step aside at the last minute and avoid them, but it’s still no fun. We will not allow a ram like this to exist ever again. He only lived as long as he did, because he was our first ram, and I just thought they were all like that! Lol, they aren’t!


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## Pony (Jan 6, 2003)

I have already shared the story of our first ram, Suilebhean. Made the same mistake as FarmerDale, made him tame. When he tried to stomp me into the ground, he got a streamlined one-way ticket to Camp Kenmore. 

Pity. He was a very pretty, very good ram, threw lovely lambs. 

Tasty, though. Mighty tasty.


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

I rent my ram for 90 days. I never keep the males and only keep the best looking females. You can build a herd pretty fast.

Saw today that 60 to 80 pound lambs are over $4 a pound.


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## Pony (Jan 6, 2003)

HDRider said:


> I rent my ram for 90 days. I never keep the males and only keep the best looking females. You can build a herd pretty fast.
> 
> Saw today that 60 to 80 pound lambs are over $4 a pound.


I have been astounded at the price that lambs and kids have been getting at auction the past year, and I wonder how long those prices will hold.


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

Pony said:


> I have been astounded at the price that lambs and kids have been getting at auction the past year, and I wonder how long those prices will hold.


Until I am ready to sell


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## barnbilder (Jul 1, 2005)

People get caught up on buying new herdsires. If he was worth having in the first place, keep him more than two years. You could go eight at least. You'll have absolutely no problems breeding him to his daughters, if you have trouble from breeding him to his grandaughters, you need to start over because he wasn't good to begin with. You can breed him to his great grandaughters, and there it starts getting tight, but there is nothing stating you couldn't put tags in them and not retain any quadrupled up offspring for breeders.

I once had a ewe that was nineteen when she had her last lambs. I bred her to her son, and then bred her to her grandson, and used the resulting ram lamb as a foundation sire, best flock I ever had. Recognizing what is good and what is bad is the key, and if you go changing bloodlines every two years, you will never have a baseline. If you get something good, go back to that breeder, don't cross some other line onto something that is working. 

People will point out the Hapsburg family of aristocrats, when you talk about inbreeding, but they never consider that it was a family of no account culls to start with, and inbreeding made it worse. Any recognizable breed of anything, got that way from linebreeding. Ask your breeder if in doubt, if they suggest crossing to the next import line, or some outcross from the other side of the country, they don't know much about breeding, or haven't found something that works good, one or the other, sometimes both. If they know what they are doing, and you like their stuff, they can point you in the direction you need to go.


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## KSALguy (Feb 14, 2006)

This️. All day every day. Inbreeding is a tool that used correctly will work wonders in solidifying the best qualities you have to work with. It allows you to cull and improve your stock. Cleaning up the gene pool instead of adding in new wild cards that just mask any flaws you might have.


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