# Closed on my property...now what?



## Harriman (May 18, 2015)

I've been lurking around the forums for a while, making notes and researching different topics. I closed on my piece of paradise yesterday and thought this might be a good place to run my current plans through and see if anybody has any suggestions for things I might have missed or ways to do them better then what I have thought out. Here goes.

I bought 8.5 acres of woods in SE Missouri. There is no water, spring stream or pond, on the property. At least no spring that I've found yet. For the most part it looks like this:










I will be going down again the end of next month for a couple weeks and after that when I can get away. I plan on making the full move around April next year. What I have in mind goes like this:

Two 10X10 pre-fab barn shed kits built together into one 10X20 cabin. A third 10X10 shed that will have a portion separated as a chicken coop for six layers and the rest for general storage. Around the outside of the shed will be cages for meat rabbits.

I have researched rainwater collection and filtration and think that is the way that I want to go. I'm thinking one 275 gallon IBC tote for rain storage and a second buried 275 gallon to collect the brown water from the sink and shower to use for the garden. From what I have learned I will probably build an insulated enclosure for the rain tank. The pipes, filter system, and 12v RV pump will be in an insulated cabinet vented to the inside of the cabin for heat.

I want to run propane lines from a pair of 100 lb tanks to run the stove, an on demand hot water heater hooked up to the sink and shower, and a ventless area heater. Before you all start on the heater, I am aware that there needs to be a draft of some sort in the building. I have been using one for several years. I also plan on installing CO2 alarms along with smoke detectors. If money allows, I'd like to get one or two back up 100 lb tanks to have on hand for emergencies.

What electricity I will have will be supplied by a 400 watt solar system on the roof. This should be more than enough to power 4 switched LED light fixtures inside and one outside, my laptop, a small flat screen on occasion, and a chest freezer converted into a refrigerator. Oh, and the two 12 RV water pumps, one for fresh water and one to run a hose from the brown water tank. Power storage will be four sealed batteries in a loft at the rear of the cabin. This is also where the electrical panels will be. Another loft at the front of the cabin will be a small bedroom. 

I already have a 3500 watt genny that I can use for emergencies or occasionally top up the batteries in prolonged bad weather. I also plan to use the genny to run a used washing machine every week or so when I need clean clothes. Clotheslines and hanging them in the cabin in the winter will do for drying.

About 20-30 feet from the back door will be an outhouse for the things I'm not comfortable doing in the woods:gaptooth: There will also be raised garden beds to raise some fresh vegies. Why raised? For the same reason that the cabin will be on piers instead of a foundation. Getting a stump grinder in is a cost I am cutting while I set up, just like having a well drilled. I am only planning on clearing an area about 60X50 and leaving the rest natural.

When it's finished I want something that looks kind of like this:










I am going off grid because it feels right for me, plus the nearest power is 3/4 of a mile away. My slice of heaven is 3/4 mile on two tracks to the dirt county road, then another 3 miles to pavement. It is 13 miles to the nearest town with a store and the nearest neighbor is over a mile away.

I have planned and plotted this out. Doing the work myself (I spent 25 years in construction before becoming a freelance writer) it will all cost between $5000 and $7500. It will reduce my bills to a $250 mortgage payment and internet which is available for $100-150 a month. Bi-weekly or monthly trips to town for groceries and mail pick up will take care of everything else.

Soooo..What do you think? Did I forget anything? Any way to make it better or even just get the cost lower?

Any help, ideas, or just comments would be greatly appreciated.


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## mooose (Nov 24, 2013)

Sounds like you have a solid plan in place. Please keep us updated with your progress.
I'd love to do the exact same thing but don't think I can talk my Chicago raised wife into it.
I love the SE MO area especially around Howell county.


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## Lookin4GoodLife (Oct 14, 2013)

Why would you use pre-fab shed kits when you could just build what you want? Wouldn't "build it yourself" be cheaper? I always do the multiples of 4 thing just for the sheet goods but I'm sure you've got a reason for using pre-fab. Sounds good to me though, a well thought out plan!


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## Harriman (May 18, 2015)

Lookin4GoodLife said:


> Why would you use pre-fab shed kits when you could just build what you want? Wouldn't "build it yourself" be cheaper? I always do the multiples of 4 thing just for the sheet goods but I'm sure you've got a reason for using pre-fab. Sounds good to me though, a well thought out plan!


Planning on the pre-fabs simply as a time saver during construction. Still, it is only the plan right now. I have until next spring to adapt it. I might go with buying the materials to build something similar depending on how things play out before then and save the cash.


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## Nimrod (Jun 8, 2010)

I know you are excited and in a hurry but take a step back and a deep breath. The first thing is to get a survey done. You don't want to build on someone else's property or too close to the line to meet the setback. My corners are 80 yards from where the county thinks they are.

Next take at least a year to observe where the water flows when there is a toad drowner of a rain storm. Where do the snow drifts happen? Can you locate the house where the trees block the prevailing wind? 

Figure out where you can put the well and septic system and build the house there. I know you don't plan on doing a well and septic right away but you need to consider it. Can you drive a sandpoint well? Most folks here are on a sandpoint and get great water. You need soil without a lot of rocks and a water table no more than 25 feet down. You can do a complete sandpoint well for under $300. If not, ask a well driller where he thinks he will hit water when he drills. 

An outhouse needs to be more than 20 to 30 feet from a well. You may have to build it further from the house.

Buy your own propane tank or rent one from the propane company if the propane truck can make it up your road to fill it. Get a 100 or 250 or 500 GALLON tank. I just got a notice that propane is $1.25 a gallon right now. If you take a 100 POUND tank in and have it filled it will cost you $3.75 a gallon. If you own your own tank you can shop around for the best price. If you rent you avoid the up front costs but you may have to buy a minimum amount and you are at the mercy of that propane company for price. You can get a valve/hose that allows you to fill the 20 POUND grill type tanks from the big one saving you even more. My 250 gallon tank runs the stove with pilots for 2 years. 

Be very careful with unvented propane appliances in the house. Just in the last few days 3 people between Fargo and Grand Forks were killed by CO from an on demand water heater that was being used to fill a pool. Co is heavier than air and the people sleeping in the basement were killed. The ones upstairs got sick.

OK Enough procrastination. I have to go mow the grass. 

Good luck.


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## where I want to (Oct 28, 2008)

I'd also do a plant inventory, especially looking for water loving plants or trees. Then check out neighboring propert as you can. That should be done now as it will be much harder in fall and winter. 

Are there any set backs for legally required for toilets? Putting one inband finding out later you have made an area unusable that you really wouod prefer is a real pain.

Re: the area you clear- if you intend to garden, that may be too small an area, depending on the height of surrounding trees, to get the sun you need.


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## Fishindude (May 19, 2015)

I'll bet you could buy a pretty decent used camper for short term living quarters as cheap as those two mini barns and it would have furnace, AC, electric, lights 12V system, plumbing, windows, insulation, furniture, flooring, etc. already built in.


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## Harriman (May 18, 2015)

Nimrod said:


> I know you are excited and in a hurry but take a step back and a deep breath. The first thing is to get a survey done. You don't want to build on someone else's property or too close to the line to meet the setback. My corners are 80 yards from where the county thinks they are.
> 
> Next take at least a year to observe where the water flows when there is a toad drowner of a rain storm. Where do the snow drifts happen? Can you locate the house where the trees block the prevailing wind?
> 
> ...


OK I'll take these in order. Most of them are good points but don't apply to my piece of property.

The survey was done when they were parcelling out the property that mine is a part of. I also have a two-track that completely surrounds my piece that mirrors the borders and is part of the easement. The only restrictions are no buildings within 50 ft of the line and I plan to be at least 100 to keep a screen of trees should other people buy and build there. Right now the few other sold parcels are used for private camping areas.

The property is flat with no ponds, creeks or low spots for water to collect. It is also completly forrested so a windbreak isn't a problem. I talked to people that live in the area and snow only lasts for a week or two max on the ground.

The soil is nothing but rocks and according to well drillers in the area the water table is 300-400 ft deep. A well would cost as much or more than the rest of my plans put together. Not gonna happen.

Again, the property is 3/4 of mile down two-tracks. Not going to be able to get a propane company to deliver to a pig, owned or otherwise. The 100 lb tanks are more expensive to fill, but for my purpose they are the best choice.

I'm already planning on the CO2 alarms for inside the house. The on demand water heater will be in the insullated cabinet on the side of the house with the filter system, but the ventless heater that I have used for years will be inside. proper air flow through the house negates the problem.

Thanks for the well thought out response though. I have considered many of these issues when I was making my plans. I double checked the survey before I even put a down payment down. 

Most of it I am doing the way I plan because of where the property is. As far off the beatan path as I could afford.


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## Harriman (May 18, 2015)

Fishindude said:


> I'll bet you could buy a pretty decent used camper for short term living quarters as cheap as those two mini barns and it would have furnace, AC, electric, lights 12V system, plumbing, windows, insulation, furniture, flooring, etc. already built in.


I already have one that I plan on staying in while I build this. I don't need much space.


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## beenaround (Mar 2, 2015)

if you were to build your own, how would you do it? I built a 12x20 in the woods, cost less than 1000, but I am a builder. Mine sits on 4x4's which sit on large stones below frost. Stones were free, when I built my home I put an add in the paper saying anyone who had busted up concrete could dump here for free. Someone had a stone foundation which I pulled them out and set aside.

Being in construction and being the guy who knows what's what are not the same. I got the windows and door for my little place replacing them for customers. Light fixture and the wiring as well. 

What's the frost line there, 2'?

I'm not quit up to speed on the new "off grid". Laptops and flat screen? 400 watts isn't enough to power a chest freezer. The thing may, and I say may run at that (doubtful) but the start up needs much more. I have a backup 5000 and have to turn off any large appliances before switching over. The run to them itself sucks a lot. Kind of like pushing water through a very long hose.

Proper air flow in what you plan on using will not be an issue. Looks like you play Minecraft. My kid does that and is very good at it. I've taken him on jobs, we've joked at the difference's.

Looks good, hope it's all you want it to be.


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## beenaround (Mar 2, 2015)

Nimrod said:


> I know you are excited and in a hurry but take a step back and a deep breath. The first thing is to get a survey done. You don't want to build on someone else's property or too close to the line to meet the setback. My corners are 80 yards from where the county thinks they are.
> 
> Next take at least a year to observe where the water flows when there is a toad drowner of a rain storm. Where do the snow drifts happen? Can you locate the house where the trees block the prevailing wind?
> 
> ...


 Good advice, but he's kind of building mobile so he can move to higher ground if things don't work out. 

I would bet the people who died were not in a unit that was installed right. I've seen reputable plumbers install units wrong. One ran the Hot water tank gas vent around 25' horizontal before going vertical. When the unit was idle the heat produce wasn't enough to create a draft and all spent fuel went right into the basement till it produced enough heat. 6' is the max. At the time the basement was unfinished. I found it while finishing it and alerted the owner who called the company who'd just installed it. Few people later they'd takled the owner into electric and asked what I thought. I said sounds good and asked the guy if he knew where the box was, he didn't and it wasn't close. They put in a power vented unit.

I'd heat with wood if it was me. I don't care for propane.

The problem is the cost of fuel has forced people to live in a bubble and that means no fresh air. Think about all the money in fuel, I would like to think those who control the cost at least have given a thought to how they've made people live and in this case die. I'm a builder, I know how tight buildings have become and why. All the savings have just led to higher fuel costs and sicker homes.


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## mreynolds (Jan 1, 2015)

beenaround said:


> Good advice, but he's kind of building mobile so he can move to higher ground if things don't work out.
> 
> I would bet the people who died were not in a unit that was installed right. I've seen reputable plumbers install units wrong. One ran the Hot water tank gas vent around 25' horizontal before going vertical. When the unit was idle the heat produce wasn't enough to create a draft and all spent fuel went right into the basement till it produced enough heat. 6' is the max. At the time the basement was unfinished. I found it while finishing it and alerted the owner who called the company who'd just installed it. Few people later they'd takled the owner into electric and asked what I thought. I said sounds good and asked the guy if he knew where the box was, he didn't and it wasn't close. They put in a power vented unit.
> 
> ...


You are so right. I see "new" houses all the time that aren't built right to that effect and even the inspectors don't know what to look for. Commercial too. One that comes to mind is a hospital that has a isolation room that can be turned to neg pressure on demand. Then they got a suspected TB patient in there and someone dropped a tissue at the door bottom going in and it blew it across the hall. Luckily the patient tested negative but it could have been really bad. 

A house has to breath because we have to breath.


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## Harriman (May 18, 2015)

beenaround said:


> if you were to build your own, how would you do it? I built a 12x20 in the woods, cost less than 1000, but I am a builder. Mine sits on 4x4's which sit on large stones below frost. Stones were free, when I built my home I put an add in the paper saying anyone who had busted up concrete could dump here for free. Someone had a stone foundation which I pulled them out and set aside.
> 
> Being in construction and being the guy who knows what's what are not the same. I got the windows and door for my little place replacing them for customers. Light fixture and the wiring as well.
> 
> ...


That $1000 was just the shell right? I priced out doing it stick built and come up with right around that. Then there's insullation, interior wall panels, IBC tanks and everything else that drives the cost up. Including the solar power setup itself.

I plan on hitting the Re-Store and other second hand building supply places to help keep those costs down as well.

As far as the chest freezer goes, the 400 watt solar is what recharges a bank of 12 volt deep cell batteries. The actual 120v to the cabin will be run through a 3500 watt power inverter that is hooked up to the batteries. The actual runtime for the freezer is not much when it is used as a refrigerator at the higher temperatures. 

To your original question of how I plan to build, I am planning on 3 ft piers done with 12 inch sonatube and a treated 4X4 post three to a side to use as anchors. The frost line is less then 18" so 2 foot deep on the tubes.

Never played minecraft. The only airflow I meant was keeping a window cracked in the wintertime since I will be using a ventless heater and CO2 can be an issue.

Thanks for the feedback


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## Xperthunter (Mar 30, 2015)

To Harriman the OP: 

My 2c. 

1. Water - Your plan is stout, but i think your size is a bit small. Look on Craigslist and find a good 800-1500g water storage tank for $150-$400; A poly one made for storage will already be colored to prevent light (and thus significantly cut down on bacteria growth) if you are doing IBC you will need to keep light out; If your by yourself, and very conservative 2 IBC will do you in a dry summer, but as you know from MO, we can have a gluttony of water (Currently) or a dust bowl like 2013. So i would up this storage to 600g for personal needs minimum, and 1000g to water your personal food plants through a drought. 

2. Power, Dont know how much of a DIY'er you are, but i have 1500w of solar cells sitting in my safe left over from a project i did at a remote location, if you want to make your own system, it takes time, but is not hard, and makes your panel costs pretty slim. I can walk you through some of the pitfalls and such. Anyway let me know, i could let them go for a good rate.


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## Harriman (May 18, 2015)

Xperthunter said:


> To Harriman the OP:
> 
> My 2c.
> 
> ...


Thanks for the input. I'll look into bigger tanks. If nothing else I might add another IBC. I did my original figuring off of the average rainfall numbers that I found online. After talking to you and people from the area on another board I realize that I probably need more storage capacity. I think my single IBC buried will still be enough for brown water for watering a limited garden. I only plan on having a few raised beds with a few tomotoes, peppers, string beans and such. Not self sufficient by any means.

I plan on doing almost everything myself including the power. Unfortunately, it's still several months out before I have the cash around to buy anything like panels. I made a note of your screen name and will drop you a line when the time comes. If I'm lucky you might even still have them. 1500w is more than triple what I have planned, but if the price is right... That might even be enough with a second inverter to add a chest freezer as a chest freezer:wizard: I'll have to go crunch some numbers.

Thanks for the input.


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## beenaround (Mar 2, 2015)

Harriman said:


> That $1000 was just the shell right?


 whole deal. I've been around. It has no plumbing. 

I'm a remodeler, means I take old things out of home and put in new. They can't often afford me to rebuild the old, but I can for myself. Every job has it's perks, mine includes opportunities at building materials. I'm sitting at a computer table made of of 150 year old sassafras. All beat up and looked like crap when I removed it. They were skirt boards along side a stairway.

The 1000 didn't include any wages for myself or the machines I've amassed over the years. 

I have taken old timbers out of homes and made beautiful things for their owners out of them.


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## beenaround (Mar 2, 2015)

Harriman said:


> . The only airflow I meant was keeping a window cracked in the wintertime since I will be using a ventless heater and CO2 can be an issue.
> 
> Thanks for the feedback


A window cracked isn't a real workable idea. I don't think you'll build it as tight as all that. The exchange of air will be enough with what leaks. Good doors and windows aren't cheap and it doesn't sound as if it's in the budget. 

I know all the talk about ventless these days, been around it for several years, have one myself. They can be a problem, people don't open their windows when they use the stove do they? Got a know what's what when doing a heat lose. A small place built right can stay warm with just a cook stove and no one goes on about them.

Still think wood heat is the way to go, invest in a good stove.


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## harmon (Jun 15, 2013)

the man that built my place mustve done exactly as you described. this is my second spring here. Last year after a week of hard rain my "yard" flooded and again this year after several days of constant hard raining. 

I live in a holler with a wet weather creek a hundred fifty meters in front of my house that takes most the drainage. But after several days of hard rain my dirt driveway turns into a hundred meter creek that empties 20 meters in front of my house and surrounds my well house, barn, chicken coop and RV shelter (all my outbuildings in other words), but stops several meters around them. Its too precise for a coincidence. and it always is gone after a day even if it continues to rain (it takes that long for the wet weather creek to absorb the runoff). 

I cant tell if all or any of the building were built on ground ramped for that purpose.I spent last year watching the rainwater build up and this year I planted orchards on the other raised areas (in addition to the hundreds of fruit trees I planted). I'm glad I waited. So fat I havent found a single tree dead or washed out.




Nimrod said:


> I know you are excited and in a hurry but take a step back and a deep breath. The first thing is to get a survey done. You don't want to build on someone else's property or too close to the line to meet the setback. My corners are 80 yards from where the county thinks they are.
> 
> Next take at least a year to observe where the water flows when there is a toad drowner of a rain storm. Where do the snow drifts happen? Can you locate the house where the trees block the prevailing wind?
> 
> ...


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## Jolly (Jan 8, 2004)

Much of your timber big enough to saw?

A bandsaw mill goes about anywhere and turns out lumber cut the way you want it. I've saved a lot of money by using my own trees.

And some mill owners are always looking for help...wonder if they'd cut your stuff in exchange for labor? Or, if not, maybe you could work for lumber instead of money.

Board-n-batten with a tin roof goes up mighty fast...

Water? I agree with others, the more the better. Always seems like you need more than what you have, especially when gardening (exception: this year).

And about heat...I like two sources, just like I wear a belt with my suspenders. I'd have a small wood heater along with my gas, just in case.

Best of luck, I think you're going to enjoy the experience.


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## BohemianWaxwing (Sep 13, 2014)

Sounds pretty ambitious! I'll be interested to see progress reports here as you go! 

I've also put a good deal of time into water issues and one thing you might want to do if you're going the rain water and brown water collection route is to buy Brad Lancaster's Rainwater Harvesting books. He goes a lot into the idea of "planting water" which is much more cost effective than trying to just store huge quantities of runoff. Also, check out oasisdesign.net for some thoughts on grey water use. Pumping and/or tank storage of grey water is almost always a bad idea.

I also question whether such a small clearing on flat acreage is going to give you the sun you need for tomatoes and peppers? TV, laptop and fridge also seem pretty optimistic for such a small system.


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## MO_cows (Aug 14, 2010)

Did I miss it or what's the plan for clearing a spot to build? The Armstrong method?

I would suggest an RV-type "ammonia" fridge since you are planning such a small power system. A little gas pilot light and a few DC volts for the controller and they stay good and cold. An RV can get about as hot inside as a closed up car when it's being towed or parked for awhile without being opened up/set up, but the freezer and fridge will keep cold even under that extreme heat. Seem to be very efficient. They seem to last forever, too, we've had our share of older RV's and never had a fridge go out yet. They make a "house" version too but with such a small living space the compact RV version might suit you better. 

Best of luck with your adventure!


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## JeepHammer (May 12, 2015)

Raised plant beds are a gift to those with bad backs, or don't want bad backs in the future.
They do take irrigation since they are above ground.

If you don't mind building on a slope, the slope will make things much easier when it comes to drainage & irrigation.
I started with a pretty good size shop building that I recovered rain water from, then used solar panels and small pump for irrigation, bathing & laundry/utility water.

Singe the shop roof was high up, that allowed me to put the collection tank on a stilted platform, which allowed for some gravity feed, mostly inside the shop.
I simply drained the tank in the winter and bypassed the downspouts.

You probably already know about a debris strainer at the gutter/down spout to strain out leaves, bird feathers, ect.
Then a wash off tank to allow the dirt, bird crap, bugs to bypass the tank,
Then the tank starts to fill...

When it got warm enough to grow alge/Mosquitos, I added just enough bleach to keep that from happening...

I looked at the available commercial strainers/wash outs, then built my own high volume unit, saved about $2,000 in the process!

$2,000 went towards solar panels.
There is no such thing as 'Enough' solar when you get started,
And since I did everything wrong at least twice, well, you know how that goes...

Mistake #1, 
Buying cheap, under powered 'China' panels from Harbor Fright.
Mistake #2,
Spending money on large, over built solar panel frame that was fixed and too low to the ground.

I solved that issue with an old house trailer frame,
Got the panels up off the ground so the weeds and dirt kicked up from rain didn't 'Shade' them and reduce production.

On the trailer frame, I could rotate them to track the sun, so production went way up,
Helping reduce the need for more panels.
An old big truck axle stuck in concrete provides a pivot with bearings that will support the load, and you can rotate it with one hand,
Which made a screw jack from an old satellite dish a natural for constant, automated sun tracking.

I had the well drilled right behind the solar array,
This puts the well pump (a high amperage draw) right next to the point of energy production, reducing electrical losses,
Again reducing the need for more expensive panels.

Once the well was drilled,
I set a 'Yard Barn' down over the well head,
Put the batteries, inverters, charge controllers and water pressure tanks in the yard barn,
The heat from batteries and electronics keeps the water tanks from freezing in the winter, (with some insulation) it works pretty good.

Once the solar/battery power hits the inverter, I have normal 110/220 volt household power, and AC power pushes through wires much better/less losses going to the house.
The house is all normal 110/220 volt AC, so no expensive 12 or 24 volt DC appliances.

I did make sure I used CF or LED lighting, a lot of natural light, and high effencicy appliances, fridge & freezer in particular.
Conservation without inconvience...


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## JeepHammer (May 12, 2015)

I'm with the other guys,
A good survey, and at least some fence posts with a single wire to define the property line is a really good idea.

I cleaned out the wooded patch, getting rid of downfalls, thinning lit the woods a little so some sunlight could get through...
Turns out the 'Cull' trees were worth about $5,000 which was a big boost to the budget!
And I wound up with about 3 years of fire wood for the shop stove in the process!

I had limestone scale rock, and hard sandstone everywhere, so I started throwing them on the wagon and collecting them up,
I now have some planting beds that are scale (small, flat pieccs),
And much of my 7/8 mile long driveway has a sandstone under lay to keep it from sinking.

Another zero dollar way to keep a drive way bed from sinking is a fairly thick (1" or so) layer of flattened tin cans or sheet tin.
The cans rust together and keep the gravel from escaping into the mud.

If you go to build on pillars, the deeper the pillar is set, the less it will sink over time.
The platform for my water tanks is 14 years old, on 6"x6" posts set 8' deep,
And I have less than 1/2" sinkage.
8' was probably overkill, it was the maximum length of the post drill I was using...

If you need to buy expensive tools, look around for people that are doing about the same thing as you, split the bill, and work, with them.
Share the tools and the work.
You get half off the tools, and you get a extra set of capable hands when you need them most.
My $1,500 post drill cost me just over $300 plus 5 days helping other people after it was all said and done, and I made some reliable, non-lazy friends.

Find a farm market near you and make a deal to buy from you.
Raised beds mean little weeding and bugs,
And that means exceptional plants.
Decoratives, day lillies and lavender will bring premium prices IN CASH.
The FIRST, or the best looking produce always fetches premium prices.

Its just cash money growing quietly outside your windows...


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## JeepHammer (May 12, 2015)

If you understand the value of raised planting beds,
Then consider growing vertical as well.

A plastic barrel with about 1" holes drilled 6" apart,
Then cut a 'Smily Face' smile between the holes.
Use a heat gun to soften the plastic, stick a wooden wedge in the hole until the plastic cools, and you will have a 'Pocket' hole with the lower lip sticking out.

I also add some drainage holes in the bottom,
With a water catch tray under the barrel to collect my fertilize water so I can reuse it.

With several pockets in the sides, you can grow vertical with virtually no weeding.
Small batches of herbs, things like peppers, strawberries, ect really seem to love this particular way of doing things, and its super productive.

Now I've taken to using a PVC drainage pipe (hole all over the outside)
Stood up vertically in the middle, cap on top...
Drop a piece of filter fabric inside, and use that center well for composting,
Delivering nutrients directly to your plants.
Keeps the kitchen compost from stinking things up too!

By recovering and recycling the fertilizer/water mix you save money, and the water is always handy at watering time...

I grow on raised beds, and I drip water.
Simply lay the water line out, plant where the drip holes are in the line,
Then lay out cardboard, newspapers, anything that's not glossy print, with holes for your plants.
A few rocks keep the paper in place, and NO WEEDING!
Drip water keeps the plants hydrated, paper keeps the moisture in the soil and less the weeds from sprouting...

You will also find you don't have sun burned potatoes, carrots, turnips, ect.

Barrels & raised beds make it really easy to control soil pH, which makes for much better & more productive gardens...
I've found it keeps my mulched, composted growing soil in place.
I spend a lot of time and effort mulching, composting & fertilizing, correcting pH, ect, just to have the weeds and rain take that all away every year!

I'm grow in potatoes in dump bins with very loose soil now.
That takes one of the most back breaking jobs in the garden away.
Digging potatoes in hard Indiana yellow clay is a back breaking job!
By controlling the packing consistency of the soil in the first place takes a bunch of the work out of it, then just dumping the bins on a screen and recovering the potatoes makes it a snap!
I'm digging this now! (Pardon the pun...)

If you grow in barrels, remember to paint the outside so no light can get through or you will have potatoes that have already started to sprout!
(Ask me how I know that...)

All in all, I had no idea how much CASH money the simple act of gardening was going to save, and how much income it was going to produce.
Just work smarter, not harder!


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## JeepHammer (May 12, 2015)

The one thing I didn't see mentioned was cold storage,
A root cellar or similar...

I didn't realize it the first year, but after trying to find a place for the preserved produce from the not so good garden (you learn a bunch the first couple years),
I quickly realized I didn't have room for the stored garden produce...
The second and third years produced even more in the same amount of garden, and I wound up selling produce way too cheap and then giving it to the food bank just to get rid of it...

The water table is very high here some times of the year,
So it was going to flood if I used 'Cheap' construction,
And with very little slope for drainage, the drains would have to be super deep, or I'd have to use sump pumps that might not keep up.

My solution was a $2,500 metal shipping container,
Another $1,000 in drains and retaining wall stones.

The entrance faces north to keep the sun off it,
Pillars to support the container, rock bed & French drains to keep the water table below floor level.
Coated the entire outside with basement sealing 'Tar' and set the container on the pilings,
Then built a retaining wall around the entrance.

Then I vented the top and back filled around and over the container,
Its a raised hump above 'Normal' ground level with a vent sticking up,
Gravity drains the water table from under the unit,
The top vent keeps air from stagnating,
And at around 5' of dirt on top, inside temp is between 53 and 65 degrees F. all year,
Completely dry inside...
It stays cool enough I can store seeds for 5 or 6 year and still have them sprout.

It also makes an excellent storm shelter.

Wouldn't work for everyone, but for $3,500 including power, toilet & running water,
Its a pretty cheap way to do cold storage.
With power and water, the entrance serves as or 'Summer Kitchen' when canning season rolls around.
The first 8' is summer kitchen, then I built in a thermal wall and door to keep heat out of the storage area.
The container is 53' long, and by the time we had 45' of shelving, there was plenty of space left for storage.

Just something to think about as your garden starts to produce in overdrive!

Where I got the dirt is now a small lake. I wanted a pond or lake, and this gave me incentive to do both...


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## JeepHammer (May 12, 2015)

I started out with a Ford 8N tractor, mostly because it was dirt cheap.
When I started to do some major construction, and a lot of digging (Hydraulics) and moving dirt (sheer horsepower jobs) I found out my beloved, and hated, 8N wasn't the tool for the job,
It simply lacked the power and hydraulics to get the work done.

I went and looked at the newer electronic injection tractors,
And between the purchase price, and the costs of repairs on electronic everything engines,
Plus all that 'Idiot Proofing' they do,
I decided on an older 'Boomer' type tractor with an engine you can fix at home and missing the 'Idiot Proof' crap...

I'm smart enough NOT to stick my hands in a drive shaft...
Or stick my head under a running bush hog...
And I don't need it shutting down on me I get out of the seat...

When I needed a backhoe, I rented one...
I have a front scoop bucket, bush hog, small chisel drag for the driveway, and a snow blade,
A boomer isn't if enough for large scale backhoe work, so buying a backhoe would have Beene waste of money and something else sitting around I had to maintain...

I LOVE my Electric golf cart!
Hard deck on top, so I mounted a couple of the older solar panels up there so it will charge itself over time.
I mounted one of the early, smaller inverters so I can use 110 volt AC power tools which are MUCH cheaper and more reliable than battery powered tools or gas powered tools,
And I wired the batteries to accept an industral blade connector so the golf cart batteries work as battery bank backup,

Batteries are expensive, no sense having them just sit around when I'm not using the cart,
They are now battery reserve for the house when I'm not driving the cart.
The solar panels charge them, the house uses them... 
No waste.


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## miraclemant (May 28, 2011)

$100-$150 per month for internet??? ARE YOU KIDDING ME??

I live VERY remote, and the ONLY option here is satellite. I currently use "Excede", which runs me $49.99 per month. They do charge an additional $10/month equipment rental, but I opted to pay the $200 up front for the whole two year contract (thus saving $40 over the two year rental). 
At this price, I get 10GB of data stream, which for me is enough to watch 2-3 one hour tv shows online per week. I rarely run out of allotted data, and then if I do, it is only a day or two away from the next 1st of the month and a new allotment of data stream. Besides, even if I run out of data allotment, I still get data, just at a slower limited speed, but still good for email, reading news, etc. 

so why in the heck are you paying $100-$150 per month, makes no sense to me........


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