# Death by COP!



## 1shotwade (Jul 9, 2013)

Did y'all see the shooting by police out in LA ? First off,something like 5 officers wrestling a guy that tries to take an officer's gun then gets shot and killed? After seeing the video it looks like a legitimate use of deadly force but that's not the point I wanted to bring up.
So many incidents like this have taken place recently that seem to have other options available other than deadly force. And sadly this doesn't seem to be restricted to only law enforcement.Seems every day now there is another shooting that could have ended differently but the shooter doesn't hesitate to take human life.
As for Law enforcement it seems the attitude now is "OK , he did X so we are legal to kill him!" And in crimes it seems to be "He didn't do X so I just killed him!"This is all making me wonder just what kind of society we have become.And,is this the beginning of a new era of "killing when you can" type attitude and just how much worse will it become.
I don't have answers but I would think a better attitude needs to prevail than that which is portrayed on TV shows nightly. Have we as a society seen so much violence that it is being ingrained in our lives to be the "normal"?


Wade


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## 7thswan (Nov 18, 2008)

I agree with what you say there being a new attitude, look at what o is doing, snubbing his nose at the Constitution,doing whatever he pleases, thinks he is not only above the law-but IS the law.

Let me also say tho, I saw the video,twice, I cannot see why they shot that man. He was on the ground, unarmmed, and 5-6 cops. I do not see the threat to the cops.


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## Tricky Grama (Oct 7, 2006)

Didn't see it. I'm sure it seems as tho there's been a rash of these incidents lately, but googled, it just seems more are reported...rather, televised. Not so much that there's that many more killed than 'usual'.
Just seems to me, in ALL the cases, if the 'victim' had NOT RESISTED arrest! Or, for Heavens' sake, NOT tried to take the cops gun! After all, what would he do w/it, when he got it? Fire in into the air? Trot off & hock it?


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## unregistered168043 (Sep 9, 2011)

Sure i've seen them beating people while yelling "stop resisting!". If you roll into a fetal position on the floor while they are beating you, that is considered resisting in some areas. The problem is that there is no accountability for these out of control officers. Even when they are sued the city pays. So many of these officers are now being caught on video so the public can see what really goes on, and they are trying desperately to outlaw the practice of video taping police.

As far as the guy trying to take the cop's gun...who's account is that? Dead men tell no tales.


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## Darren (May 10, 2002)

I would not want to be a LEO. Way too much crap going on. Almost fifty years ago, I sat in the Gitmo shore patrol office reading the bulletin board and watching a roach try to get into the sugar (I was really bored). The notice that got my attention was about sawed off shotguns being placed in doors so that cops could be shot when they walked up to the driver's side of the car.

That was a long time before drugs got as bad as they are now and the meth stuff started. A LEO has to be super alert. A local LEO had his shoulder severely damaged by a suspect when the man tried to escape. That took surgery and an extended recovery.

t may sound like I'm always for the LEO. I'm not. In some cases it's justified. Others not. As long as we have the situation on our streets today and we test and hire those with the psychological makeup to be effective as a LEO, we're going to have problems.


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## Marinea (Apr 15, 2011)

Off the top of my head, the Rodney King incident is the first such incident I remember being videoed. Remember the uproar around that? 

I really am not sure if it is just so much more common now for folks to have camera phones with them now, or whether the police are more out of control now. I think that earlier, all we would have heard on the news was that a suspect was killed while being arrested. The story would have highlighted the suspect's arrest record, and little to nothing would have been questioned.

Maybe I'm naÃ¯ve.


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## mmoetc (Oct 9, 2012)

Darren said:


> I would not want to be a LEO. Way too much crap going on. Almost fifty years ago, I sat in the Gitmo shore patrol office reading the bulletin board and watching a roach try to get into the sugar (I was really bored). The notice that got my attention was about sawed off shotguns being placed in doors so that cops could be shot when they walked up to the driver's side of the car.
> 
> That was a long time before drugs got as bad as they are now and the meth stuff started. A LEO has to be super alert. A local LEO had his shoulder severely damaged by a suspect when the man tried to escape. That took surgery and an extended recovery.
> 
> t may sound like I'm always for the LEO. I'm not. In some cases it's justified. Others not. As long as we have the situation on our streets today and we test and hire those with the psychological makeup to be effective as a LEO, we're going to have problems.


It's not that we'll have problems. That's a given. But what can we do to minimize those problems and how do we react when those problems inevitably happen. What should the protocol be when approaching a homeless street dweller who likely has psychological issues when " investigating" a robbery? I heard the police spokesman say this man wouldn't be dead if he hadn't resisted. True. But might he also be alive if the officer(s) had approached him differently?


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## Jolly (Jan 8, 2004)

Watch the video carefully and listen to the audio.

The guy was tazered before lethal force was used. After the sound of the tazer going off, you can hear one of the cops hollering something about "GUN!".

At that point three officers shot the man.


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## Janis R (Jun 27, 2013)

Does anyone think that if an officer takes a life that he doesn't feel remorse.
In this situation one of the officers says "He's got my gun"
We can all say they should of done this or that but if we aren't in that moment we can't know.
I would hate to be an officer and be scrutinized so much for doing my job, I would be 
afraid to do anything because I might offend someone.
I know there are bad cops but most are good people trying to keep us safe


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## Jennifer L. (May 10, 2002)

How about not fighting the cops when they come up to you for some reason? Problem solved. 

This is just another symptom of society where people think they are allowed to do and have whatever they want, so instead of respecting a police officer doing their job, they figure they don't have to anymore.


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## Wanda (Dec 19, 2002)

Jennifer L. said:


> How about not fighting the cops when they come up to you for some reason? Problem solved.
> 
> This is just another symptom of society where people think they are allowed to do and have whatever they want, so instead of respecting a police officer doing their job, they figure they don't have to anymore.



I think you miss the point. I will never blindly obey just because someone has the ''police'' title. You can ask for my respect but you darn sure can not demand it. In my life's journey I have noticed that just a choice of words and how they are delivered can vastly change outcomes.:shrug:


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## Truckinguy (Mar 8, 2008)

Whether or not the police are right or wrong, resisting arrest in any way never, ever turns out well. Do people who resist arrest really think that the cops are going to say "Well, this isn't going well, on your way, Sir."?

If the Police are going to arrest you, it's going to happen whether you go peacefully or not. Best to know your rights and sort things out when you get to the station.

Things are obviously different when dealing with those with mental health issues.

Chris Rock had a great video about how not to get your butt kicked by the Police. Obviously a parody but had some good points.


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## Shine (Feb 19, 2011)

Just a little off the trail but to illustrate something that I understand is that one can see in the Bible when Jesus came to be that the Pharisees had taken the Law and turned it into a ritual. The people were following the Law just to follow the Law. They forgot what the purpose of the Law was. There was only "follow the Law", they lost sight of the purpose.

Today, we have the exact same thing occurring, here, it seems, for the most part when a person is pulled over, stopped in the street, goes to the tag office, it is like they hold you up to the light [law] and see if there is anything that they might get you on. Very few of the cops that I see doing their jobs seem to have the premise of Justice in mind. If you look at it, the Law was intended to provide Justice. Now the only thing that I see cops doing is worshiping the law and discarding Justice. They have lost sight of their purpose...


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## Nimrod (Jun 8, 2010)

To me "death by cop" refers to someone who commits suicide by getting a cop to kill them. That doesn't seem to be what this thread is about.

I have determined that I will be calm and polite during interactions with the police. At the same time I am mindful of my rights and will not allow them to break them. Police get away with doing things that they need your consent for by phrasing their requests as if they have the legal right to do them so you give them permission. Know your rights. Do not voluntarily get into the cattle car.


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## Nevada (Sep 9, 2004)

1shotwade said:


> After seeing the video it looks like a legitimate use of deadly force


What exactly did you see in the video that led you to that conclusion?


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## Oxankle (Jun 20, 2003)

Wanda; Respect cuts both ways. Those police are the representatives of our society, our civilization. If one of them asks you to obey a law or conform to a rule of society you had better obey. We pay those rough men to protect our interests, and those who will not obey pay the consequences. 

When you have people who feel they can disrespect the law you have anarchy, pure and simple. Too many men have died working hard to establish and maintain a civil society, and no hard-headed scofflaw will escape notice. All LEO's resent scofflaws.

I would much rather police use an unarmed team to deal with potentially psychotic civilians, but even so someone needs to be armed in order to protect the lives of the working officers. Even "unarmed" psychotics have been found to have knives or other deadly weapons at hand.


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## hippygirl (Apr 3, 2010)

I saw the video on the news last night, but with so many arms/legs/bodies flailing about, I couldn't tell diddly squat. I "did" hear the tazer, though.

Unless someone else comes forward with a MUCH better video, we'll never know what actually happened.

Side note...after we watched this last night, I said there'd surely be a Ferguson-type riot over this by morning...guess the folks in CA are a bit more laid back that in MO.


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## Nevada (Sep 9, 2004)

hippygirl said:


> I saw the video on the news last night, but with so many arms/legs/bodies flailing about, I couldn't tell diddly squat.


Yes, that's what I saw as well. But the original poster saw "a legitimate use of deadly force".


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## 1shotwade (Jul 9, 2013)

Nevada said:


> Yes, that's what I as also. But the original poster saw "a legitimate use of deadly force".


Man,you just thrive on stirring something up don't you! Always some snide remark to put down someone else.If you're just always looking for an argument just get married! I haven't seen a post of your yet that didn't end up that way! Some of us don't come on this site to start some crap!
To answer your concern that must be eating at you pretty bad since you have brought it up twice,what I heard on the video was "put down the gun" 3 times! He wasn't talking to another officer.Believe what you want! I don't really care! Just because you refuse to believe the truth, it doesn't change the truth any! Go on and live in your own little world where you are king!

Wade


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## Cornhusker (Mar 20, 2003)

I think most on the left would prefer the bad guy shot the cops, just like they want to disarm citizens so the bad guys can rape, rob and assault anybody they want.
I don't know when the left in this country turned into the advocate for evil, but it's wearing thin.


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## Nevada (Sep 9, 2004)

1shotwade said:


> To answer your concern that must be eating at you pretty bad since you have brought it up twice,what I heard on the video was "put down the gun" 3 times!


The problem with that is the cops aren't alleging that he had a gun, but that they thought he might have been reaching for a gun. Your conclusion doesn't match what they cops say happened. The rookie cop now claims that he was yelling "he has my gun," not "put down the gun." Evidently the gun was never unholstered or in possession of the victim, but the rookie cop thought the victim might have had his hand on his gun & holster.

_"You can hear the young officer who was primarily engaged in the confrontation saying that 'He has my gun. He has my gun,'" Beck said. "He says it several times, with conviction." Then three other officers opened fire._
http://www.cbsnews.com/news/lapd-chief-3-officers-in-skid-row-death-had-training-on-mentally-ill/

So you not only heard it wrong, but you concluded that the cops acted appropriately based on that mistake.


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## Harry Chickpea (Dec 19, 2008)

I view that there was confusion as to what was happening. I place the responsibility for that confusion to the group of cops acting like teenagers going for a football scrum type of tackle as a group, rather than waiting for the taser to do its job. Regrettable and probably preventable with better training.


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## Nevada (Sep 9, 2004)

Harry Chickpea said:


> Regrettable and probably preventable with better training.


Regrettable and preventable, but I can't give them a pass on poor training. That's no excuse. They are in charge of their own training and their own actions. I never like giving anyone a pass on incompetence.

Cops are licensed to use lethal force. If they aren't willing to be held accountable for their actions then they can't be trusted with deadly force.


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## Nate_in_IN (Apr 5, 2013)

Nevada said:


> The problem with that is the cops aren't alleging that he had a gun, but that they thought he might have been reaching for a gun. Your conclusion doesn't match what they cops say happened. The rookie cop now claims that he was yelling "he has my gun," not "put down the gun." Evidently the gun was never unholstered or in possession of the victim, but the rookie cop thought the victim might have had his hand on his gun & holster.
> 
> _"You can hear the young officer who was primarily engaged in the confrontation saying that 'He has my gun. He has my gun,'" Beck said. "He says it several times, with conviction." Then three other officers opened fire._
> http://www.cbsnews.com/news/lapd-chief-3-officers-in-skid-row-death-had-training-on-mentally-ill/
> ...


Quick question. Is there any possible evidence which may be uncovered during the investigation which would sway you to believe the cop was indeed in mortal danger and the shooting was justified? Or is this going to end with "of course the cops would say that" type discussions?

Let's start at the beginning. If the assailant *had* managed to wrestle the cops firearm away from him and was in control of the weapon, would the other officers be justified in shooting?


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## Nevada (Sep 9, 2004)

Nate_in_IN said:


> Quick question. Is there any possible evidence which may be uncovered during the investigation which would sway you to believe the cop was indeed in mortal danger and the shooting was justified? Or is this going to end with "of course the cops would say that" type discussions?
> 
> Let's start at the beginning. If the assailant *had* managed to wrestle the cops firearm away from him and was in control of the weapon, would the other officers be justified in shooting?


Yes, under that circumstance the cops would have been justified. A mentally ill man in control of a loaded gun is a serious situation.

I'm not against cops. As a former firefighter I worked closely with cops. They deserve to go home at the end of their shift as much as anyone. But I still think they should be accountable for their actions. I know that I always was.


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## jwal10 (Jun 5, 2010)

Things have changed so much. Murder is murder. Innocence or guilt is carried out in the court of public opinion now, instead of court of law. We all know about opinions, everyone has one. Every case of murder should go to court, decided by a jury of 12. Not to a grand jury or decided by an elected official ,whether it will go to jury trial....James


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## AmericanStand (Jul 29, 2014)

Nate_in_IN said:


> Quick question. Is there any possible evidence which may be uncovered during the investigation which would sway you to believe the cop was indeed in mortal danger and the shooting was justified? Or is this going to end with "of course the cops would say that" type discussions?
> 
> Let's start at the beginning. If the assailant *had* managed to wrestle the cops firearm away from him and was in control of the weapon, would the other officers be justified in shooting?


 Yes If the victim had pointed a gun at them and BEGUN shooting.


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## Nate_in_IN (Apr 5, 2013)

AmericanStand said:


> Yes If the victim had pointed a gun at them and BEGUN shooting.


So the officers are only to return fire? Is this what you think the law is, or what it should be?


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## Nate_in_IN (Apr 5, 2013)

Nevada said:


> Yes, under that circumstance the cops would have been justified. A mentally ill man in control of a loaded gun is a serious situation.
> 
> I'm not against cops. As a former firefighter I worked closely with cops. They deserve to go home at the end of their shift as much as anyone. But I still think they should be accountable for their actions. I know that I always was.


OK so let's wait and see what evidence the investigation uncovers.

To the OP, I believe that we are simply hearing more of these cases. Police shootings, particularly when they can include "unarmed black man" in the headline are in vogue currently.


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## AmericanStand (Jul 29, 2014)

1shotwade said:


> what I heard on the video was "put down the gun" 3 times! He wasn't talking to another officer.Wade


 Just cause a cop is screaming something in the heat and confusion of a brawl doesn't make a fact of his assumptions.


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## AmericanStand (Jul 29, 2014)

Nate_in_IN said:


> So the officers are only to return fire? Is this what you think the law is, or what it should be?


Its what I think it should be.


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## ksfarmer (Apr 28, 2007)

AmericanStand said:


> Yes If the victim had pointed a gun at them and BEGUN shooting.


At that point there could have been many more victims, cops and bystanders alike.


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## Nate_in_IN (Apr 5, 2013)

AmericanStand said:


> Its what I think it should be.


Do you also believe the same for individuals? Are civilians only permitted to fire once fired upon or is that something particular to LEO?


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## AmericanStand (Jul 29, 2014)

ksfarmer said:


> At that point there could have been many more victims, cops and bystanders alike.


Could?
Well yes but there COULD have been no one hurt at all.
But lets say he had pulled the trigger, Whats LIKELY to have happened?

One excited amateur verses several trained pros?
One shaky shot verses several well trained shots ?
Probably no one but the victim would be shot ,possibly 1 cop shot but probably not killed.
So when you add up the possibilities and probabilities society would have been far better off if the cops had backed off and let the victim recover.


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## Ozarks Tom (May 27, 2011)

Many years ago I was walking though a small square between two high rise buildings in downtown Dallas. Quite a few homeless guys were hanging around, and I noticed one of them showing a small pistol to some others. On my way back through the square later I saw a cop talking to the guy, and walked past him while quietly saying "he's got a gun". The cop dropped him like a bad habit, and found the gun in his pants pocket. This happened about a month after another homeless guy took a cop's gun in downtown Dallas, and with the encouragement of the bystanders shot the cop to death.

I agree some cops should be fired and jailed, but it's hard to fault one when he's truly protecting himself or others. If I were there, and heard the words drop the gun, I'd be shooting.


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## AmericanStand (Jul 29, 2014)

Nate_in_IN said:


> Do you also believe the same for individuals? Are civilians only permitted to fire once fired upon or is that something particular to LEO?


That would be particular to a cop.
Its certainly not something you could not expect of a average citizen.


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## Cornhusker (Mar 20, 2003)

Nevada said:


> I never like giving anyone a pass on incompetence.


Except Obama?


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## 7thswan (Nov 18, 2008)

The video I saw, the f word was in constant use by the person takeing the video. I heard none of the "gun" issue.


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## arabian knight (Dec 19, 2005)

Nate_in_IN said:


> So the officers are only to return fire? Is this what you think the law is, or what it should be?


 Boy they can't wait for that. You point a gun at a officer you are pretty much going to assume he is going to SHOOT you and SHOOT to kill. And THAT is the way it should be in this day in age of so many things on the streets druggies that are so high they don't even know their name. And some would want the officer to Wait Till he shoots first. That is the same idiotic thoughts that made the Iraq war last and last and last. Having to ASK permission to shoot first is down right dumb. It is here as well as in WAR~!


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## arabian knight (Dec 19, 2005)

Ozarks Tom said:


> Many years ago I was walking though a small square between two high rise buildings in downtown Dallas. Quite a few homeless guys were hanging around, and I noticed one of them showing a small pistol to some others. On my way back through the square later I saw a cop talking to the guy, and walked past him while quietly saying "he's got a gun". The cop dropped him like a bad habit, and found the gun in his pants pocket. This happened about a month after another homeless guy took a cop's gun in downtown Dallas, and with the encouragement of the bystanders shot the cop to death.
> 
> I agree some cops should be fired and jailed, but it's hard to fault one when he's truly protecting himself or others. If I were there, and heard the words drop the gun, I'd be shooting.


As it should be you have a gun the officer is bound by duty to protect the populous. 
This is once again so many posting dissing officers they should put on the uniform themselves just for one day. So many threads are started to just diss officers......


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## 1shotwade (Jul 9, 2013)

arabian knight said:


> As it should be you have a gun the officer is bound by duty to protect the populous.
> This is once again so many posting dissing officers they should put on the uniform themselves just for one day. So many threads are started to just diss officers......


AK I hope you don't think that is why I started this thread.It wasn't.I've been down in the mud and the blood and the beer wrestling for your life so I know some of what the officers were thinking and I'm not necessarily questioning the shooting itself but rather the mentality as a whole that the country seems to have developed with regard to the taking of life. And it's not so much a recent thing but I have watched that sentiment grow slowly over my lifetime and it concerns me that we seem to have lowered our perception of how important life is.

As for the cops actions,the only thing I could question is how the person got the gun and why they couldn't get it away from him being they were within arms reach.And that's not a call you can make unless you are in that situation.

Wade


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## ksfarmer (Apr 28, 2007)

arabian knight said:


> Boy they can't wait for that. You point a gun at a officer you are pretty much going to assume he is going to SHOOT you and SHOOT to kill. And THAT is the way it should be in this day in age of so many things on the streets druggies that are so high they don't even know their name. And some would want the officer to Wait Till he shoots first. That is the same idiotic thoughts that made the Iraq war last and last and last. Having to ASK permission to shoot first is down right dumb. It is here as well as in WAR~!



A lot of good guys died in Nam because of policies like that, there was the ones shooting and ones hiding the shooters, hard to sort them out.


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## plowjockey (Aug 18, 2008)

LOL, my, how times have changed!

At one time, we had little choice, but to trust the Cops. If they were "dirty", maybe they would eventually get busted, maybe they wouldn't.

Now with cell phone cameras, it can all be captured, for Americans to armchair quarterback and a money hungry media to interpret any way we like.

Was it a "chokehold"? Wasn't it? We are now all _chokehold experts_, so we'll decide.

did the suspect have a gun, or was he attacking the Officer? accordding to "eyewitness" videos on *youtube*, he didn't have gun and he was completely innocent! Ok then - Officer guilty! 

The media - pro and Con cuts up footage and feeds the the "truth" - in bites - ones we want to eat.

Can't imagine why Cops are edgy and maybe a bit trigger happy these days. Certainly the "citizens" have nothing to do with it! 

https://www.google.com/?gws_rd=ssl#tbs=qdr:y&q=police+high+speed+chase



> Two Los Angeles police officers were shot at Sunday night while they drove their patrol car in what police are calling an âunprovoked attack.â



Read more: http://www.washingtontimes.com/news...ce-officers-shot-at-in-unprovo/#ixzz3TNfWb76S 
Follow us: @washtimes on Twitter
​

If the Cops are becoming "frankensteins Monsters", they are of our own creation.


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## Jolly (Jan 8, 2004)

Well, for those of you who might want to be cops, New Orleans is hiring!

They have 150 positions available. Starting pay is $37.5K/year, with rapid advancement - assuming you live - in the lower ranks.

http://joinnopd.org/

C'mon, be all you can be!


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## BlackFeather (Jun 17, 2014)

Get a load of this.... http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/wor...hmans-identity-to-follow-Hollywood-dream.html
A bank robber and identity thief. I guess this falls into the category of what goes around comes around.


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## Shrek (May 1, 2002)

BlackFeather said:


> Get a load of this.... http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/wor...hmans-identity-to-follow-Hollywood-dream.html
> A bank robber and identity thief. I guess this falls into the category of what goes around comes around.


 I wonder if being an international felon on the run dogging the U.S. Marshals instead of a mentally ill homeless guy on skid row will enrage some L.A. residents in the opposite direction as they were enraged a few days ago?

He must not have been a very good bank robber if he had to hide out on skid row instead of in the suburbs.

At least now we have some idea of why he was fighting so hard to get a cops gun as he tried to get away.


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## JeffreyD (Dec 27, 2006)

Nevada said:


> Regrettable and preventable, but I can't give them a pass on poor training. That's no excuse. They are in charge of their own training and their own actions. I never like giving anyone a pass on incompetence.
> 
> Cops are licensed to use lethal force. If they aren't willing to be held accountable for their actions then they can't be trusted with deadly force.


I'm told by friends that are/ were officers, that you could pay off the instructors to be able to pass certain requirements.

Wow, i actually agree with you!


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## MichaelZ (May 21, 2013)

It seems that there is a "class" system setting up in LEO these days. You have the LEO that wants to serve - we all know one or have dealt with one - they will give you a warning when they see you just forgot to renew your plates last week rather than bust you to the wall. And they are courteous. And then you have the other type, that uses force and power with gusto to control rather than serve. It is our crazy society that is causing this - either you are a saint that is so selfless you are willing to serve with all the abuse and danger or you are just a ******* with a gun itching to use it on the crazies in society. As decent people, we need to start going out of our way to encourage and thank all the good LEOs out there - it is a tough and dangerous job.


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## Jolly (Jan 8, 2004)

Jolly said:


> Well, for those of you who might want to be cops, New Orleans is hiring!
> 
> They have 150 positions available. Starting pay is $37.5K/year, with rapid advancement - assuming you live - in the lower ranks.
> 
> ...


Bueller? Bueller?

Shucks, here I am, giving some of y'all a chance to live the dream and I don't have any takers?

New Orleans is a fun city! Just think about all the things to see and do!

And I didn't mention the best part...During Mardi Gras season, most cops work doubles. Doesn't take long working sixteen hour shifts and those dollars start to mount up!


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## Jokarva (Jan 17, 2010)

AmericanStand said:


> Could?
> Well yes but there COULD have been no one hurt at all.
> But lets say he had pulled the trigger, Whats LIKELY to have happened?
> 
> ...



If he pulled the trigger that bullet would have gone somewhere, agree? And would you want to have been in that crowd and 'probably' ended up ok?


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## jwal10 (Jun 5, 2010)

It is very easy. Law abiding citizens don't put themselves in that position. What is so hard in doing what you are told. Problem being, people are raised today that have no accountability for their actions. Used to be a decent citizen did what they were told. If these thugs would just stop running their mouth or acting stupid this would not happen to them. STOP, put their hands up, shut up AND listen, they would still be alive. PERIOD....James


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## AmericanStand (Jul 29, 2014)

Jokarva said:


> If he pulled the trigger that bullet would have gone somewhere, agree? And would you want to have been in that crowd and 'probably' ended up ok?


Sorry but that's a did you quit beating your wife question.
The point is That the odds are in favor of MORE citizen survival if they hadn't shot him than if they did.
Personally I wouldnt have wanted to be around with all those police bullets flying around.


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## AmericanStand (Jul 29, 2014)

*NO!* NO NO NO!




jwal10 said:


> It is very easy. Law abiding citizens don't put themselves in that position.


 NO! Cops quite often encounter law abiding citizens


jwal10 said:


> What is so hard in doing what you are told.


Sometimes you don't have the ability and sometimes that just makes it worse, for instance You crawling up the mudbank with gun in hand a cop happens to see you and orders you (Illegally) to raise your hands when you raise your hands of course you slip in the mud and go down face first the cop interprets the movement as threating and shoots and of course laying there with gun in your raised hand he sees it pointing at him and fires some more !


jwal10 said:


> Used to be a decent citizen did what they were told.


 NEVER! Only the sheep.


jwal10 said:


> If these thugs would just stop running their mouth or acting stupid this would not happen to them. STOP, put their hands up, shut up AND listen, they would still be alive. PERIOD....James


Do you think by calling them thugs you take away their rights? Sorry they have a right to run their mouths do what they want with their hands and not pay any attention to a cop when they are not committing a crime.

If the Professional trained cop would just walk away everyone would be fine but his ego wouldn't be stroked.


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## Jokarva (Jan 17, 2010)

Lol...AS, I think you must live a very interesting and eventful life.


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## AmericanStand (Jul 29, 2014)

While that's true I also watch others and can see how life doesn't always go along the predicted path.


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## Jolly (Jan 8, 2004)

> Sometimes you don't have the ability and sometimes that just makes it worse, for instance You crawling up the mudbank with gun in hand a cop happens to see you and orders you (Illegally) to raise your hands when you raise your hands of course you slip in the mud and go down face first the cop interprets the movement as threating and shoots and of course laying there with gun in your raised hand he sees it pointing at him and fires some more !


Ain't you kinda stretching statistical probability to the breaking point?


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## AmericanStand (Jul 29, 2014)

Jolly said:


> Ain't you kinda stretching statistical probability to the breaking point?



lol no not even close ! The incident described happened . The rookie cop emptied his gun lucky for him he did no serious damage.

Weirder stuff happens all the time. with 300,000,000 people in this country doing stuff every day you have to expect a certain amount of weirdness to come true.


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## Truckinguy (Mar 8, 2008)

> NEVER! Only the sheep.


It's likely a lot of those sheep were people who went quietly and mounted their defence in a lawful and likely informed way. Those that resisted arrest went to jail anyway after a thorough beatdown and added injury recovery time to their schedule, not to mention possible additional charges like assaulting a police officer and resisting arrest.

If the cops come to your situation do people think they will be LESS likely to arrest you if you resist?

This has less to do with who is right or wrong, it's about simple logistics. Go peacefully or go injured. Anyone who is or was military or anyone with the sense God gave a billy goat knows that there is a concept called tactics. Pick your battles wisely.


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## jwal10 (Jun 5, 2010)

Truckinguy said:


> It's likely a lot of those sheep were people who went quietly and mounted their defence in a lawful and likely informed way. Those that resisted arrest went to jail anyway after a thorough beatdown and added injury recovery time to their schedule, not to mention possible additional charges like assaulting a police officer and resisting arrest.
> 
> If the cops come to your situation do people think they will be LESS likely to arrest you if you resist?
> 
> This has less to do with who is right or wrong, it's about simple logistics. Go peacefully or go injured. Anyone who is or was military or anyone with the sense God gave a billy goat knows that there is a concept called tactics. Pick your battles wisely.


 
Like x1000000000000000000000000000


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## jwal10 (Jun 5, 2010)

AmericanStand said:


> *NO!* NO NO NO!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## jwal10 (Jun 5, 2010)

Quotr; Do you think by calling them thugs you take away their rights? Sorry they have a right to run their mouths do what they want with their hands and not pay any attention to a cop when they are not committing a crime.


No, A thug breaks the law. They lose their rights. What are you going to do with them? Oh yea, you would let them shoot first.... 



Quote; If the Professional trained cop would just walk away everyone would be fine.....



Then why have them. Just leave it to each person to take care of themselves. Go back to the wild west. People like you describe, will be DEAD, anyway....James


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## coolrunnin (Aug 28, 2010)

jwal10 said:


> Quotr; Do you think by calling them thugs you take away their rights? Sorry they have a right to run their mouths do what they want with their hands and not pay any attention to a cop when they are not committing a crime.
> 
> 
> *No, A thug breaks the law. They lose their rights. What are you going to do with them? Oh yea, you would let them shoot first....
> ...



I din't think you lost anything until convicted by a jury of your peers. 
No way are the police supposed to be judge, jury and executioner


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## Jokarva (Jan 17, 2010)

coolrunnin said:


> I din't think you lost anything until convicted by a jury of your peers.
> No way are the police supposed to be judge, jury and executioner


No, you will lose everything in a split second if you do something stupid enough. And that's true whether you're dealing with cops, machinery, traffic, drugs or life in general.


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## coolrunnin (Aug 28, 2010)

Jokarva said:


> No, you will lose everything in a split second if you do something stupid enough. And that's true whether you're dealing with cops, machinery, traffic, drugs or life in general.


Confronting armed people (whether your armed or not) is just the gene pool being shallowed down a bit.


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