# The gentel package install.



## alleyyooper (Apr 22, 2005)

A quick run down on most instructions for installing packages is. bang the package to get the bees on the bottom of the cage, remove the lid,remove the feed can and queen. Turn the package upside down and shake the girls into the hive.

My method: once the hive has all the frames in it but one IE 10 frame hive will have 9 frames in it. a 9 frame hive will have 8 in it. 
Spray the girls with a 1:1 syrup mix thru the screen, I do it to the point the syrup starts to drip off the cluster. Open the package and remove the feed can set the lid back in place, brush any girls on it into the hive. Next Remove the queen cage, again brush any girls on it into the hive. Remove the cork and install the cage between 2 frames then replace the frame you removed. I then turn the package hole side down and sit it on the top bars over top of the queen, sliding the lid out just as it touches.
Come back in about 3 hours and not one bee is left in the package.I only wear a veil cause, Kare says you have it use it.



















First package installed Middle hive.









I was told these Itialian girls were only in the package 3 days. This is the first time I ever saw burr comb In a package.










And now ready to set the second hive body around the feeder package.










These three colonies are along a river, to the left of the hives. A tree nursery is on the right. We use and upper entrance only here due to critters being a problem ( possiable the river draws them).
The smoker is for just incase of a sting the area can be covered with smoke to cover the scent. The spray bottle is a premiun one that pumps up from a garden center, holds up better than the handle pump an spray jobs in the bee yard. We use red, to stain the hive that surround our feeders. They are not in the greatest condtion but work around the feeders and also in emergency as hive bodys for a colony. They are quick to find when gathering equipment for the trip to the bee yard too.

 Al


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## makeitdolou (Dec 6, 2005)

Alleyooper, are you leaving the top of the hive open for three hours then coming back to close it? And if you have more than one package to install, can you use this method for all at the same time?


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## alleyyooper (Apr 22, 2005)

Here is a picture with one package installed (center hive) and one to go.
The one with the red feeder hive is an established colony.










I just leave the inter cover off till the package emtpys and we remove it. Then the intercover is put on with the feed jar.
Yes you can do as many packages as you wish this way. There isn't a whole bunch of the girls flying willie nillie due to being shook into a hive and frames having to be placed in after.
I might add in these pictures we are useing winter dead out frames. But I have did it before with fresh new WAX foundation I sprayed with syrup. 

 Al


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## renee7 (Mar 15, 2003)

Wow, do I feel overwhelmed? My Bees are supposed to come tomorrow. I feel that I have everything ready. But I am a little nervous about this.

I have the powdered sugar, that I will probably put on the frames tonight. One problem is, it is cool and is supposed to rain off and on most of this week. My Dad always said, that bees would be more likely to sting in cool damp whether. Is this true? If it is, I may keep them in the cage for 3 or 4 days.

Did someone mention this, or did I think it up? That you could use contact paper turned with the sticky side up, in the bottom for a Varroa screen? And what did someone say about using mineral oil?

I sure hate to kill any of the Bees. The instructions say, to mash any bees that are on the screen flat. That if you try to brush them off, that they will sting you. Because it is their nature to protect the Queen.

I may have to ask you seasoned Bee Keepers a bunch of questions.

I have to buy some more sugar. LOL. I thought that I was buying enough for the season. I bought 10 lbs. I must have thought that I was feeding humming birds. I see where I need to mix 10 lbs in 1 gal of water. And that is just the start


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## alleyyooper (Apr 22, 2005)

[1. Relax and enjoy the package install. By being relaxed you won't make as many OOP'S. I even make OOP's so don't worry about them to much. 

[2. When a lull comes in the rain install the girls. It is harder for them to regulate the temp in the package and I feel makes them cross. Powder sugar? for mite control? use it after the bees have released the queen.

[3. Yes you can use sticky paper under the screen of a screen bottom board. But that is so you can get a ruff count on how many mites are in the hive (for our area any way.).


"I have to buy some more sugar. LOL. I thought that I was buying enough for the season. I bought 10 lbs. I must have thought that I was feeding humming birds. I see where I need to mix 10 lbs in 1 gal of water. And that is just the start"

I just checked with Kare, she said there are 10 cups of water in a gallon so mix the sugar from a 5 pound bag and leave out one cup since there is 11 cups of sugar in 5 pounds of extra fine.
You have a winter mix.

 Al


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## renee7 (Mar 15, 2003)

Thanks Al. That will help. I've already noticed that I don't feel nervous around them. I've been feeding them in their box. A man that is going to rob them for me is coming this evening to help me install them.

I was so glad when they calmed down. I went out in the garage to feed them this morning, and I didn't hear a sound. It almost scared me. My first thought was that they were dead. Not so. They were busy making comb.


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## alleyyooper (Apr 22, 2005)

Good to hear Your now comferable around them.

I hope the install went well.

 Al


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## alleyyooper (Apr 22, 2005)

Should have moved this to the top a while ago.

 Al


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## turtlehead (Jul 22, 2005)

I read this article the other day when you linked to it.

As a total newbie to beekeeping, I had some questions when I read it. If you could edit the original or make changes and create a new post, I think it would be helpful to other new folks like me. I'm sure it makes total sense to someone who "knows" beekeeping. My suggestions are just to clarify what confused me, with no experience.

It's a great article, and the photos are good. Thanks for posting it.

*Open the package and remove the feed can set the lid back in place, brush any girls on it into the hive.*
Now this sounds TOTALLY dumb, but one of the things that first confused me when I was doing this was "How do I open the package?" There was a small "lid" on top of a larger "lid" which covered the entire top surface of the cage. Both were stapled in place so it wasn't obvious which I should remove (small lid or large lid).

How do you remove the feed can? I managed to get one of mine out but the other one was wedged tight. I ended up dumping it out when I up-ended the cage to shake out the girls. I think if I'd had a screwdriver with me I could have pried it out.

*Next Remove the queen cage, again brush any girls on it into the hive. *
Is there a trick to this? One of my queen cages lifted right out. The other, when I pulled up on it to lift it out of the cage, the top came off and the cage itself fell down into the cage with all the girls. It was a mess.

*Remove the cork and install the cage between 2 frames then replace the frame you removed. *
How do you "install the cage"? I just set mine on the screen on the bottom of the hive with the candy side up. I haven't seen this described anywhere so I just hope I did it okay.

*I then turn the package hole side down and sit it on the top bars over top of the queen, sliding the lid out just as it touches.*
This makes perfect sense now that I read it again, but when I first read it I couldn't make heads nor tails of it. For some reason I didn't know what was touching what. Maybe "sliding the lid off of the cage just as the cage touches the top bars of the foundation frames." 

When you've never done it before, nor seen it done, even the obvious is confusing. 

Thanks for all your input on this forum, it's very helpful.


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## alleyyooper (Apr 22, 2005)

*(1.Open the package and remove the feed can set the lid back in place, brush any girls on it into the hive.*

There is a small about 5"x5" cover on the box top that covers the syrup can and queen cage. Remove it useing a hive tool as a pry bar. Use needle nose pliers ro remove the can and queen cage.

*(2.Remove the cork and install the cage between 2 frames then replace the frame you removed. * 
Check to make sure the cork you remove has the candy behind it. Some Benton three hole cages have a cork at both ends.
I use short finish nailes pushed in to the wood of the cage so it sticks in the foundation between two frames. Or with drawn comb just squeeze the cage between two frames.

 Al


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## turtlehead (Jul 22, 2005)

Thanks, Al. Even *I* can understand that  

Your patience and sharing are greatly appreciated. Wish I'd known to take needle nosed pliers and some other stuff with me when I was on the hill putting the bees in the hives. 

I've learned a lot already!


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## alleyyooper (Apr 22, 2005)

And you will learn more as time goes by. Like carrying an extra lighter for starting the smoker. A small pail to put burr comb in and proplis. A small hammer and a few nails to fix loose intercover frame or the tin covering the outer cover. 
A pail with some water to wash your hands in when they get sticky with honey from burr comb. A towel to dry your hands after washing the honey off. 
And a whole bunch more.

 Al


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## turtlehead (Jul 22, 2005)

The lighter I've already learned 
The others, well... <scribbling notes madly>

Thanks!


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## alleyyooper (Apr 22, 2005)

Getting close to package installtime again.

If any one wants me to redo the pictures let me know.

 Al


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## DoubleBee (Nov 13, 2006)

I did something similar, Al. I read in the book "First Lessons in Beekeeping" about taking out a few frames, and after spraying them with sugar water, placing the queen cage in the hive. Then just sitting the package in the super with the top removed and hole facing up. Add another super without frames and adding a mason jar feeder of sugar syrup, surrounded by crumpled newspaper. Put the top on and check it in morning. All bees are out of the shipping package. Just remove it and add the frames back in. 
Since I was a total newbie, I did just that and it worked great.
I think I like your idea even better, checking them sooner.
I know now that I don't have to worry too much about getting them out of the box. They are really docile at that point.


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## the kid (Jul 9, 2006)

OH COME ON AL !!!!!! you know as well as I do we all have that little kid in us ,,, you know the one !!!!!! the one that likes doing every thing MOM told us never to do with bees ..... we always did the bang and shake thing ,,
we didnt have vails or any smoke going .. but not one of us gst stung ...
it was surpriseing how few girls were in the air .... 
We know that we should maybee wear vailes but for me they mack it hard ti see .... I know that one day Im going to get the crap stung out of me ,,,,, but it hasnt come yet 
tom


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## Terri (May 10, 2002)

The purpose of the veil is not to avoid being stung: it is to avoid being stung on the eye, or inside the ear, or whatever.


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## alleyyooper (Apr 22, 2005)

Tom, your drummer beats a far different tune than the rest of us. That isn't really all bad either, as you can tell from this thread I do not like the bang shake package install. My drummer beats a different tune too.

 Al


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## the kid (Jul 9, 2006)

the spring of 2006 my first hive third time we opened the hive a girl got behind my glasses and stung me 1/4 inch below the eye ,, heck of a time to get the stiner out ,, NO ONE GETS NEAR MY EYE .... the ear I no longer worry about ,as I have hearing aids .... If you think bees a loud put a hearing aid in ....  I am thinking of putting a hair net on as they get in my hair a lot ... but I know that will never happen ,,
the next time we opened the hive after I got it in the eye ,, my son did a dance when one tryed to go up his nose ... the bees in that hive found the funnyest places to try and go .. up your pant leg , down the shirt ,up a slive . one even tryed the butt crack ..... 
guess it takes a lot to teach me some things ..
I think last year will be the last of the slame and shake thing as it sounds like less work just to set it on and go have coffee ...
got to try that phone call again 
tom


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## Metagirrl (Oct 8, 2006)

alleyooper... I'd love to see the pics. I was confused as to why nobody had asked about them.. then I realized that the thread was a few years old!


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## alleyyooper (Apr 22, 2005)

Trying to round up all the pictures so I can get them up loaded to a image host.











 Al


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## Me Beekeeper (Jan 6, 2009)

Hi Al,

That's a great picture of a beard stuck on a hive. What was the cause of your beard?

Are they over-crowded, too hot, plugged out, nurse bees with nothing to do? Tracheal mites? Ready to swarm? Or is it just in their genes? :nono:

What was their problem? :shrug:


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## alleyyooper (Apr 22, 2005)

Along about the end of Febuary we feed pollen patties to get the queen going really strong. By mid may we are ready to do our splits and on a nice warm day they will beard like this even with a honey super to try to keep them from divideing sooner than we are ready.

One of our splits. Double screen between the bottom double deep with entrance to the left. Bottom double deep with entrance to the right. Both have queens in them.









 Al


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## alleyyooper (Apr 22, 2005)

First I get the hive(s) set in place where I am going to install packages. I also have all the tools needed and helmit and veil. Tools are a mister bottle with 1:1 syrup to spray the girls in the package with, A hive tool or small pry bar to get the packages lid off with. I like small channel locks to grab the syrup can out of the package with.









In this picture I have already installed the package on the right. the second deep just surrounds the package, syrup can and syrup jar. But is shows the mister bottle and pry bar I use.









This is what the
package looks like from the side and where you really mist them down with syrup both sides.









This is the top of the package with the lid still in place. The white strap is hooked and holding the queen cage in place.









This is the package with the lid loose, the syrup can and queen cage removed. I repace the lid after doing the removal. The girls are still bussy cleaning the syrup off each other from the misting.









 Al


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## alleyyooper (Apr 22, 2005)

This is the queen cage with some burr comb on it. I was told this package was only 3 days old when I picked it up and did the install the 4th day.
Remove the cork from the candy end only. Since I'm installing the package in drawn comb I place the cage candy end up between two frames and squeeze them together to hold it in place. You will see the gap in a different picture.









This shows the gap in the frames I left for the queen cage. Once I have that in I hold the lid on the package and turn it upside down over the frames and pull out the lid just before it touches the frames.









I place the syrup can on the frames if there is any left. I also set a gallon of syrup on the top bars too.
once that is done I set a second deep body around it all. I come back in a couple of days and remove the empty package and place a intercover on with the syrup jar on top of that. The can is usally empty by then. During the cheap fuel days (diesel at 1.35 a gallon) we did the package removal in a couple of hours.









These colonies are at a tree nursery along a river. We had a lot of trouble with ***** so they have upper entrances only plus they do use the vent holes a lot too.

 Al


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## alleyyooper (Apr 22, 2005)

Now days we do not buy packages or Nucs any longer. We raise our own Queens for the most part or I'll get a few expermintal queen to try. I like to get them laying right away so release the queen on a frame of drawn comb lightly misted with syrup so she doesn't run fast. I'll alread have my home made push in cage in place except for one end where the queen goes in. Once she is in I push the open end close.
She will normally start laying in a day or so and have the whole area full in 4 days when i remove the push in cage.









All these wooden queen cages are called Benton 3 hole cages.

 Al


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## alleyyooper (Apr 22, 2005)

Some pictures from a install on foundation.
The cork end of the queen cage and small finish nails to hold the cage on the top frame bars.









Removing the package lid as the package is near the frame top bars.









 Al


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## alleyyooper (Apr 22, 2005)

A friend and I bought 50 SMR carnoloians from Flordia. 
They were shipped overnight UPS, I refuse to buy queens if the seller can not ship UPS over night. Postal delivery here is horriable.
The box had many loose workers, none in the JZBZ cages with the queens.









The necks of the cages are held in what are called battery holders.









The cage is called a JZBZ cage and are what we buy for our own use as I like them better to get the new queen in than the Benton cage.
This one holds only the queen.
I also like them because they fit between the frasmes better,









 Al


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## alleyyooper (Apr 22, 2005)

It is getting clost to package install time.

 Al


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## Wisconsin Ann (Feb 27, 2007)

my GOD but that's an impressively great series of pictures and posts about how to do it. Thank you


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## alleyyooper (Apr 22, 2005)

You can take a package with queen cage and syrup can to classes, but it seems the people who attend the start up classes get more out of the pictures. The pictures show how the bees are in the cage, shows how the frames set in the hive and a couple of other things. Their are members who will even take the thime to go to your bee yard with you to make sure youdon't mess up.

Clubs are exllant places for Newbees to learn.

:grin: Al


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## alleyyooper (Apr 22, 2005)

Hope it helps.

 Al


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## alleyyooper (Apr 22, 2005)

Since this has not been made a sticky I'll bump it to the top again as it is close to package install time in the north. they may be installing packages in the south already.

 Al


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## mare (Aug 31, 2006)

thanks for the great picture tutorial Al


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## tom j (Apr 3, 2009)

mare
if we live very close and you feel you need a little help putting your package in let me know , and will see what we can come up with . I don't know were you call central mn Im just north of mpls


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## mare (Aug 31, 2006)

tom j said:


> mare
> if we live very close and you feel you need a little help putting your package in let me know , and will see what we can come up with . I don't know were you call central mn Im just north of mpls


thanks Tom, will definately keep that in mind. i live close to Milaca. lost your pm--am going to a meeting tonight, they said they are ordering the bees. wow april seems so early, but what do i know??? i have to get moving on the hives. good thing i have a couple weeks off coming up. was told to face them to the east, is that how you guys do it?


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## farmerjohn (Jun 11, 2010)

Thanks so much Al. I hope to see an update on pics. Mine do not show up on the first posts Also as an FYI, 4 quarts =1 gallon and 16 cups=1 gallon. On the first page it was stated that 10 cups = gallon. The 10 cups would make a thick sugar water solution.

Is the pollen patty the best to feed with going into the spring? Or are we best to use both a patty and sugar water on a hive? Is it just one patty to a hive or to fill up most of the area of the hive surface? Is there a homemade alternative to make besides buying a patty?


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## tom j (Apr 3, 2009)

Im a little ways from you but not far (30 miles from TC ) my son lives up that way about 20 miles north of you , we make a trip up as often as we can . the pm was about the same as my post , so you got the same message . 
east is so the sun wakes them up


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## alleyyooper (Apr 22, 2005)

What you put on the hive in the spring depends on what you want to do with it. We have had one pollen patty on now for about 3 weeks. As soon as it warms a bit more we will put on syrup and another patty if they have used what we put on all ready. But our plans are to make two nucs from each hive and possiably split some super strong ones. I have cut the pollen pattis down to half pound when we do not plan of building nucs or splitting them.

 Al


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## farmerjohn (Jun 11, 2010)

That is interesting and good to know. I have always heard feed either but never knew if should be together or for the reason. Is it not good to feed both if you just want the hive to build up to be strong for going into the winter? I sure wish I had some one closer to mentor with.


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## alleyyooper (Apr 22, 2005)

Nobody knows what your location is so no one can help you find one.

Google your states bee club, then contact them for help.

We feed syrup 2:1 in the fall then just before freeze up we may add a pollen patty. Depends on the time we have on our hands to do it.

 Al


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## farmerjohn (Jun 11, 2010)

Yes I guess I should redo the profile. I am in NE Indiana. I have already contacted club at Ft.Wayne. Will attend a meeting this month. No one though that I am aware of close to me that wants to assist.


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## alleyyooper (Apr 22, 2005)

It is getting close to that time of year again. Only about 75 days here in most of Michigan.

 Al


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