# outside food storage question



## kentuckyhippie (May 29, 2004)

I need help figuring out if this would work. I have no place to store pumpkins, potatoes etc. no place to build a root cellar either. I'm in ky and the winters aren't too harsh. my porch is partially enclosed. if I build a closet on the porch and completely line it top, bottom sides door etc with pink board insulation and put in shelves do you think I could store pumpkin, squash potatoes without them freezing in the winter Open for any other ideas you have. thanks


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## Marilyn (Aug 2, 2006)

I am very curious about this, looking forward to seeing what you learn.


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## Port-Angel (Aug 28, 2014)

Hi Kentuckyhippie ! I can honestly say... it didn't work for me. Everything froze anyway. What did work pretty well, and might work for you also is a triple insulation type cabinet. What I did was use a hard plastic container with a locking lid ( bought it from the Amish, it used to hold ground / powdered pvc stuff ) I put a thick layer of straw, then cut cardboard boxes to fit snuggly, then used the hard foam insulation, cut to fit tightly, then another layer of straw / cardboard. it doesn't hold as much with all the insulation, but with minimum ice it can even be used as an extra refridgerator if needed. ( in 75 degrees it worked very well when our fridge went out last summer ) This set up will hold an even temperature no matter what the outside temp. is, and with the container it keeps mice, rats, and most insects out of the food, even if it has to be kept outside in the yard ( just not in the direct sun )


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## Skandi (Oct 21, 2014)

I actualy keep pumpkin in the house, they sit in the livingroom, and look all pretty, I'm still looking at some right now that were picked in September, still fine so far.


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## kentuckyhippie (May 29, 2004)

port angel was your winter temps similar to ky? 
scandi I just don't have the space to keep them inside. I have a small trailer and all my available floor space is taken up with canned goods etc. just don't have room to put a bunch of pumpkin, squash, potatoes etc. closets, under beds and cabinates are already full need to come up with a good storage solution before next harvest season


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## WhoMe (Jan 5, 2015)

Do you have, or can you build a shed? Or buy one of those heavy duty Rubbermaid type sheds? Then get an enclosed shelving type unit or storage unit to put into the shed.....and then put in a metal trash can or other heavy duty container that rodents can't chew thru. Put down a thick layer of straw or rags or whatever, then put in a single layer of your squash OR potatoes OR whatever you want to store with another layer of straw, then a layer of produce, etc. Then top it off with another layer of straw. Just keep the produce layer as single so none are touching & the insulating straw can be packed around each piece. The bottom, sides and top should have thicker straw packing and make sure the produce doesn't touch the sides of the container. This should help considerably to keep your stuff from freezing. You may loose a few items, but as long as they aren't touching & have packing around each one...it can keep the rest of the stuff from going bad at the same time. As in the old saying of 'one bad apple spoils the whole bunch'


I have heard of digging a hole in the garden or yard somewhere, lay in straw for insulation, put in a container lined & layered with straw & produce then covered with more straw & topped with dirt to use as a makeshift root cellar, but I have my doubts on that. Who knows it might work.


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## Port-Angel (Aug 28, 2014)

Kentuckyhippie, I also am in kentucky. currently living in crittenden county.

WhoMe, that is a wonderful idea for the straw. However, trying to store anything in the ground here is a problem, due to rodents of all kinds,( example is possums, *****, rats, mice, etc. ) then you add in the rain.. since the winters have been fairly mild for the last several years, anything you try to store in the ground would be washed out by the end of January.


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## WhoMe (Jan 5, 2015)

Port-Angel said:


> Kentuckyhippie, I also am in kentucky. currently living in crittenden county.
> 
> WhoMe, that is a wonderful idea for the straw. However, trying to store anything in the ground here is a problem, due to rodents of all kinds,( example is possums, *****, rats, mice, etc. ) then you add in the rain.. since the winters have been fairly mild for the last several years, anything you try to store in the ground would be washed out by the end of January.


Yes, but they can't get thru a metal garbage can with a tight fitting lid. It would protect from rodents, rain & wash out. I don't know if it would really work, but would be worth a try if you didn't have any other kind of outside shelter. You would need to dig it up periodically to air vent it and to retrieve some of the goods and probably 'turn' everything stored inside too so they don't just sit there to rot. Also I don't know if it would be good for a long term storage as much as a shorter term like just a few months vs several. 
If at all possible I think it would be better to look into some type of outside storage shed, maybe attached to or right next to your trailer as another insulating factor? Then put the straw lined metal can inside of that?


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## TRellis (Sep 16, 2013)

kentuckyhippie said:


> I need help figuring out if this would work. I have no place to store pumpkins, potatoes etc. no place to build a root cellar either. I'm in ky and the winters aren't too harsh. my porch is partially enclosed. if I build a closet on the porch and completely line it top, bottom sides door etc with pink board insulation and put in shelves do you think I could store pumpkin, squash potatoes without them freezing in the winter Open for any other ideas you have. thanks


You say you live in a trailer...

Is it up, off of the ground a bit or is the floor of the trailer real close to the ground?

TRellis


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## kentuckyhippie (May 29, 2004)

TRellis said:


> You say you live in a trailer...
> 
> Is it up, off of the ground a bit or is the floor of the trailer real close to the ground?
> 
> TRellis


I'm setting pretty close to the ground also I'm in my 60's and partly disabled so this old lady can't do much crawling under things or digging holes etc.


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## TRellis (Sep 16, 2013)

kentuckyhippie said:


> I'm setting pretty close to the ground also I'm in my 60's and partly disabled so this old lady can't do much crawling under things or digging holes etc.


It seems like you know where I was going with that question. 

All you need to do is to create an above-ground "cavity/storage box" that has the equivalent R-rating of the amount of soil a couple of inches below your area's normal frost line. 

Or, just find out what your normal frost depth is for your area and cover your above-ground "cavity/storage box" with at least that amount of dirt on all sides except for the entrance. The entrance should face north and have a lot of man-made insulation to keep the interior temps stable.

I am not saying that it would be easy, but some amount of work will have to be done by you or others. Either that or you pay through the nose for a mechanically controlled climate area to keep the pumpkins and potatoes.

TRellis


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## kentuckyhippie (May 29, 2004)

TRellis said:


> It seems like you know where I was going with that question.
> 
> All you need to do is to create an above-ground "cavity/storage box" that has the equivalent R-rating of the amount of soil a couple of inches below your area's normal frost line.
> 
> ...


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## TRellis (Sep 16, 2013)

kentuckyhippie said:


> Trellis do you think it would work to cover the storage box with dirt filled bags sort of like building an earthbag house or would to much cold air get thru between the bags. I think I could manage earthbags.


I do not see why not. Many people have already done it. Here are some examples that I found:

http://www.earthbagbuilding.com/projects/rootcellar.htm

http://www.wildernesscollege.com/earthbags.html

http://www.motherearthnews.com/diy/earthbag-building-zmaz09aszraw.aspx


I do think that it would be best though if you covered the earth bags with dirt and then planted grass or something else on the top and sides to solidify the entire structure.

I also think that another key is that somehow you dig into the ground a little bit or into the side of a hill. Either method will decrease the amount of earth bags necessary and better utilize the steady state temperature of the earth surrounding it.

Just make sure that earth bags and earth on top of the bags are at least deeper than your frost line. For example, if your frost line is 12 inches I would double that (just to be on the safe side) and have 24 inches on the top and all sides. Except for your entry it would be as if it was two feet under the ground. 

I do remember reading somewhere that in order to reach a level where the temperatures do not change at all you must go down to a level where there is eight feet of earth above the highest point of the root cellar. I do not remember if that was location specific or not (I think it was not).

TRellis


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## hickerbillywife (Feb 28, 2014)

Wow those earth bags ain't cheap. I wonder if you could use feed sacks, the ones that are plastic like. Actually I think "pasture seed" sacks are what I am thinking of. Should they be solid plastic or that mesh plastic stuff?


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## eruehr (Feb 22, 2007)

squash/pumpkins vs. potatoes, turnips, cabbages, etc. are two different things. Here in northern Ohio I store turnips, beets, potatoes, carrots, 'roots' etc in heaps, on top of the groud with straw and them a foot or so of soil on them. Put a bait station outside and be ready to trim off some 'nibbles' from mice and voles..... Pumkins/squashes need 55-60 - fo inside somewhere.

With the roots, it isn't so much the cold that hurts themas the freezing and then thawing and then refreezing, thawing, etc.

The thing with the heaps is that when you open them, the stuff doesn't keep very long, so store some carrots, potatoes, beets, etc. together in one heap, open it, use it and move to the next. You'll notice your local apple places, if you buy a bag of apple this time of year, out of storage, they don't last so long, get some, use them up, get some more. That's just how it is. once you take stuff out of storage, it needs to be used....

check out 'potato clamps' or 'root clamps' it's much less work than it sounds like....seriously! I make a bunch to store beets and turnips for the cows....


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## eruehr (Feb 22, 2007)

Pumkins/squashes need 55-60 - fo inside somewhere.


Or "so inside...." 

danged iPads....


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