# Robin Williams gone at 63



## FarmboyBill (Aug 19, 2005)

And it wasn't the great white hunter of Jumagie? that ended him.


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## Shrek (May 1, 2002)

He had some good movies.


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## Oxankle (Jun 20, 2003)

Suicide? Why? What turned him against life?


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## Brighton (Apr 14, 2013)

Oxankle said:


> Suicide? Why? What turned him against life?


Depression, it gets a lot of us.


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## FarmboyBill (Aug 19, 2005)

He hadn't done a movie for quite awhile. Was living on voice overs, I heard.


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## wr (Aug 10, 2003)

FarmboyBill said:


> He hadn't done a movie for quite awhile. Was living on voice overs, I heard.



It's quite a lucrative business and he remained very wealthy.


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## Paumon (Jul 12, 2007)

FarmboyBill said:


> He hadn't done a movie for quite awhile. Was living on voice overs, I heard.


He never stopped working and was working right up til this year, some of the productions from this year are still in post-production.

1977 - "Can I Do It 'Till I Need Glasses?"
1980 - "Popeye"
1982 - "The World According to Garp"
1983 - "The Survivors"
1984 - "Moscow on the Hudson" (Golden Globe nomination for best actor) 
1986 - "Seize the Day," "Club Paradise," "The Best of Times"
1987 - "Good Morning Vietnam" (Golden Globe Award for best actor, nominated for Oscar)
1988 - "The Adventures of Baron Munchausen," "Portrait of a White Marriage," "Rabbit Ears: Pecos Bill" (narrator)
1989 - "Dead Poets Society" (Golden Globe Award for best actor), "I'm From Hollywood"
1990 - "Cadillac Man," "Awakenings" (nominated Golden Globe Award for best actor)
1991 - "Dead Again," "The Fisher King" (Golden Globe Award for best actor, nominated for Oscar), "Hook," "Shakes the Clown," "Rabbit Ears: The Fool and the Flying Ship" (voice) 
1992 - "Toys," "Aladdin" (voice, special Golden Globe Award), "The Timekeeper" (voice), "FernGully" (voice)
1993 - "Mrs. Doubtfire" (Golden Globe Award for best actor)
1994 - "Being Human," "In Search of Dr. Seuss"
1995 - "Jumanji," "To Wong Foo, Thanks for Everything, Julie Newmar" (uncredited), "Nine Months"
1996 - "Aladdin and the King of Thieves" (voice), "Hamlet," "The Secret Agent," "Jack," "The Birdcage"
1997 - "Good Will Hunting" (Academy Award for best supporting actor, nominated for Golden Globe), "Flubber," "Deconstructing Harry," "Father's Day"
1998 - "Patch Adams" (Golden Globe nomination for best actor), "Junket Whore," "What Dreams May Come"
1999 - "Bicentennial Man," "Jakob the Liar," "Get Bruce"
2000 - "Model Behavior"
2001 - "A.I. Artificial Intelligence" (voice)
2002 - "The Rutles 2: Can't Buy Me Lunch," "Insomnia," "Death to Smoochy," "One Hour Photo"
2004 - "Noel" (uncredited), "House of D," "The Final Cut"
2005 - "The Big White," "Robots" (voice), "The Aristocrats"
2006 - "Man of the Year," "Night at the Museum," "Happy Feet" (voice)
2007 - "License to Wed," "August Rush"
2009 - "Shrink," "World's Greatest Dad," "Night at the Museum: Battle of the Smithsonian," "Old Dogs"
2011- "Happy Feet Two," "Stage Left: A Story of Theater in the Bay Area"
2013 - "The Big Wedding," "The Face of Love," "The Butler"
2014 - "The Angriest Man in Brooklyn," "Boulevard," "Absolutely Anything" (voice), "Night at the Museum: Secret of the Tomb" (in postproduction), "Merry Friggin' Christmas" (in postproduction)


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## alidbond (May 30, 2014)

Suicide always shocks me. Not that the public every could know a celebrity, but who would have seen that coming? Its a good reminder to be kind, for everyone is fighting a great battle.


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## Laura Zone 5 (Jan 13, 2010)

When my girls told me, I was very sad.
My daughter said "oh no, not Genie" (from the animated movie "Aladdin's Lamp")
Said it was asphyxiation? Didn't have anymore details than that.

Depression can take a person from rational, to suicidal.....in a minute.
It's so sad that he thought the world would be better off without him.
It's so sad no one was there to catch him when he was falling.


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## Ramblin Wreck (Jun 10, 2005)

Always enjoyed his work, and he could do drama just as well as comedy. He was a great villain in "Insomnia". But I always worried for him. His highs were just too high, which oftentimes (almost always) means the lows are very low.


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## Oxankle (Jun 20, 2003)

I thought his stuff was a little silly, on the Jerry Lewis side though not that bad, but I always enjoyed his appearances. 

Was the guy married? Hard to be depressed with a good woman in the house. You are either on a high or furious, never depressed. So little we know about these celebrities unless we are diehard fans.

Here's the answer: "Williams, who struggled with drug and alcohol abuse earlier in this career, also spent time at Minnesota's Hazelden Addiction Treatment Center in recent months" The article also quoted his wife, and mentioned earlier drug addiction. Too bad. So many talented lives lost because of stupid decisions early in life.


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## Laura Zone 5 (Jan 13, 2010)

Sometimes folks self medicate to manage mental illness.....unfortunately addiction follows. 
Depression is more than just 'not being happy'.
You read all the time about folks that "have it all"....who are desperately depressed.
It's an illness, not a choice.


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## Oxankle (Jun 20, 2003)

Laura; a man smart enough to do what Williams did had to know the dangers of addiction. We've been warned since our first visit to doctors' offices about "self medication", particularly with addictive drugs. Somewhere along the line Williams made a stupid decision. One does not commit suicide by accident---something he did earlier led up to this. 

Further, I am disturbed by the outpouring of adulation on the news. Is no one going to point out that addiction and suicide are undesirable outcomes? Excuses, excuses.


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## alidbond (May 30, 2014)

Of course we are never going to know much more than the superficial explanation of "depression" and "addiction." Seems a bit harsh to judge someone when we know very little about what was really going on.


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## Ardie/WI (May 10, 2002)

Oxankle said:


> Laura; a man smart enough to do what Williams did had to know the dangers of addiction. We've been warned since our first visit to doctors' offices about "self medication", particularly with addictive drugs. Somewhere along the line Williams made a stupid decision. One does not commit suicide by accident---something he did earlier led up to this.
> 
> Further, I am disturbed by the outpouring of adulation on the news. Is no one going to point out that addiction and suicide are undesirable outcomes? Excuses, excuses.


Ox, right now, I don't like you very much. Enough said.


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## Oxankle (Jun 20, 2003)

Sorry about that Ardie; truth is sometimes unpleasant. Some of our own are toying with drugs right now--if no one speaks out, will they think drugs are good? Will they think we approve?
Ox


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## Terri (May 10, 2002)

Robin Williams was bipolar, and bipolar people are not always sane.

A gentle good-bye to the man with the rubber face!


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## alidbond (May 30, 2014)

I don't think anyone mourning the loss of RW is saying drugs are ok


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## doingitmyself (Jul 30, 2013)

It is so sad that Robin did not reach out to any of his friends before he made his choice. 

I seen him do a TV Documentary "In the wild with Dophins" where he was swimming with research Dolphins. The guy was hilarious even in his daily life, he was a high functioning humorous individual. He developed a bond with one of the Dolphins that the researchers said was quite rare, in that the Dolphin actually would seek him out of the team in order to "play" with him and this was all in the wild wide open sea. Robin was always ripping on himself as he was an extremely hairy man, he did a short impromptu bit just before he went into the water to visit with the Dolphin and what he thought the Dolphin thought about his hairiness. It was priceless, no prep, his humour just came to him, he simply functioned at a different level than the rest of us. 

Very interesting man, my condolences to his family and friends, I will miss his humour greatly.


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## Shrek (May 1, 2002)

From the news reports he did "reach out" again and had scheduled himself for a return to rehab.

Apparently before he entered rehab again his mind left him deciding either the world was better off without him or he was better off without the world.

Many people make the decision to jump the night train home. Some make the decision with a degree of rationale , others make it irrationally or due to mental disease or defect.

Many cultures do not stigmatize the act of suicide as the Judeo-Christian culture does. American Indians , Eskimo and other primitive cultures celebrated the act of tribal members going off to die alone in caves, on mountain tops, adrift on ice floes etc. when they felt they had become a burden on their society.

It would be nice had he not punched his own ticket home but only he knows why he did it.

What is really sad is that many people every day punch their own ticket on the train home but only the celebrities who do so garner all the attention and sympathy statements.

As all who pass on he left his mark on the world behind. As a celebrity however his mark is on recorded media so those of us not ready to catch that train home yet can enjoy his presence as if he never left until the our time comes to ride on.


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## tiffnzacsmom (Jan 26, 2006)

Ox, I truly hope that no one you care for is ever diagnosed with mental illness. My mother and best friend are both bi polar, never touched drugs in their life, my mother didn't even drink until her late 30's yet they fight suicidal thoughts everyday.


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## Oxankle (Jun 20, 2003)

Tiffnzacsmom:
You may have misunderstood my position. I know all too well about mental illness-I once worked in a psychiatric hospital with a geriatric wing. What I am critical of is people who know the danger of drugs and who indulge in recreational drugs anyway. 

A fellow once told me "I would not wish this life on anyone, but it is the only life I have". He was not about to start on addictive drugs just to mask his illness.

People who are both poor and mentally ill often have no one to see that they take their medication as prescribed--we see all too often that some homeless fellow has been found dead under a bridge or in a storm drain. Most are mentally ill and/or drunks--they generally have no money to buy drugs. Once turned out by their families they wander like beasts of the field until old age or some other catastrophe gets them.
Some have guardians who collect their checks and supposedly monitor them---hard to monitor a grown man (or woman) who refuses to cooperate. 

Not the case with the rich---Michael Jackson had his own physician. When they overdose it is generally because they just want more.


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## wr (Aug 10, 2003)

Ox, I'm quite surprised that someone who claims such strong christian values can have so little compassion for another human being. 

I certainly don't claim to know what may have caused an entertainer to take his own life but it is my understanding that he has a significant history of clinical depression, which is not a simple case of the blues. Anyone suffering from mental illness deserves compassion and empathy not scorn and derision. 

You claim you know but if you do, I doubt very much if you would heap scorn and derision on someone who needs to be helped up, not pushed down. 

Empathy or concern for those fighting addiction, mental illness or personal demons does not mean anyone thinks it's a good thing but cures and help do not come to those who need it, if it can't be discussed openly.


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## Oxankle (Jun 20, 2003)

Where did I deride anyone who is mentally Ill? What I deride is the conscious ingestion, over the period of months that it takes to become addicted, of a substance known to all to be deadly to ambition, ability and health. 

Quit making excuses and warn people not to begin that crud---we all know that it leads to misery. Mental illness we do not know how to avoid, addiction we do know how to avoid.

Sorry if it offends you, but I have much more sympathy for those afflicted with mental illness than I have for those who deliberately ruin their lives and the lives of those who love them.


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## Terri (May 10, 2002)

Oxankle said:


> Where did I deride anyone who is mentally Ill? What I deride is the conscious ingestion, over the period of months that it takes to become addicted, of a substance known to all to be deadly to ambition, ability and health.


Ox, it would, indeed, be an insane thing to do.

The main point is, Robin Williams had a major mental illness. That means that at times he was insane.

Some of my classmates became addicted and I have zero sympathy for most of them. As you have said they knew better. I *DO* have sympathy for Mr. Willams for 2 reasons: One he was clean and sober for 20 years and 2, he was bipolar. It is very hard for a person to use any kind of good judgement when they are a bipolar and they are cycling, but he managed for 20 years. The man FOUGHT!


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## Ardie/WI (May 10, 2002)

it happened in our community. A person was bi-polar. (Yes, a said "yes" because that person commited suicide. This person had a very supportive spouse, family and community.

That person died by his own hand because he was bi-polar, not an addiction. The pain simply got to be too much. The depression was too deep.

Before anyone judges another, they should walk a mile in that person's shoes.


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## Oxankle (Jun 20, 2003)

Williams was also a drug addict. Is there something about being bi-polar that impels one to take narcotics? Williams was said to be rich; he could afford the best care. He had just spent a small fortune at a rehab center.

We will probably never know the how and why of this, but I would wager that RW would have had a better chance at life had he not taken up drugs.


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## Terri (May 10, 2002)

Oxankle said:


> Williams was also a drug addict. Is there something about being bi-polar that impels one to take narcotics? .


Do you believe that mental illness impels a person to do really stupid things?


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## Oxankle (Jun 20, 2003)

No, Terri, I do not. And if that is the case, Williams had to make a conscious decision to become a drug addict. On the other hand, a person who is both mentally ill AND a drug addict might be so depressed that suicide seems a welcome option. We've all heard of people who do really stupid things when under the influence of drugs.


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## wr (Aug 10, 2003)

Oxankle said:


> Williams was also a drug addict. Is there something about being bi-polar that impels one to take narcotics? Williams was said to be rich; he could afford the best care. He had just spent a small fortune at a rehab center.
> 
> We will probably never know the how and why of this, but I would wager that RW would have had a better chance at life had he not taken up drugs.


Ox, bipolar means a life of euphoric highs and horrible crushing lows with a tendency to self harm. Successful treatment often means a life in between the two - mellow, medicated and hopefully no desire for self harm but that balance can change quickly. 

I have a friend who is bipolar and one of her frustrations is that when medicated, the ugly lows are gone but so is the high end up the spectrum so there are patients who go off medication with the belief they will have a more normal range of emotions and a certain number do look to self medicate. 

It would be the euphoric highs that made Mr Williams an amazing entertainer but likely the crushing lows that caused his demise.


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## FarmChix (Mar 3, 2013)

wr said:


> It's quite a lucrative business and he remained very wealthy.


Actually, they reported today that his debt seemed insurmountable to him. Between alimony and mounting bills, he felt overwhelmed. With that Hollywood income, comes Hollywood-sized bills/debts. 

It is a sad situation for sure. Sometimes what we perceive as just being down is a true clinical depression.


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## Terri (May 10, 2002)

Oxankle said:


> No, Terri, I do not. And if that is the case, Williams had to make a conscious decision to become a drug addict. On the other hand, a person who is both mentally ill AND a drug addict might be so depressed that suicide seems a welcome option. We've all heard of people who do really stupid things when under the influence of drugs.


People also do really stupid things under the influence of bipolar. 

There was the gent who was going to get rich by gambling his life savings at Vegas and who could NOT understand why that was not wise (because in a state of mania it was inconceivable that he might lose) and a great many people have tried to kill themselves when the cycle swung low. And these people were not using: that was just the influence of bipolar speaking.

I have no idea if Mr. Williams was under the influence of anything, but then he did not have to be. Bipolar alone would do it.


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## wr (Aug 10, 2003)

Ox, perhaps you know something I don't but I was of the impression that he kicked his drug habit many years ago. Is this incorrect or are you if the opinion that once a druggie, always a druggie?


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## summerdaze (Jun 11, 2009)

Oxankle said:


> Laura; a man smart enough to do what Williams did had to know the dangers of addiction. We've been warned since our first visit to doctors' offices about "self medication", particularly with addictive drugs. Somewhere along the line Williams made a stupid decision. One does not commit suicide by accident---something he did earlier led up to this.
> 
> Further, I am disturbed by the outpouring of adulation on the news. Is no one going to point out that addiction and suicide are undesirable outcomes? Excuses, excuses.


No doubt his death will open the doors for many discussions about addiction and suicide. Parents, teachers, clergy and the like WILL discuss these issues, and they will link Robin Williams to them, and there will likely be many teaching moments come out of this tragedy. 

Sounds like you're disappointed that news people aren't stating the obvious. Who doesn't know that addiction and suicide are "undesirable outcomes"?? Why isn't it ok to simply morn a loss, remember and highlight the persons best moments in life, celebrate their talent and show respect for them? Why CAN'T we just appreciate them for all their positive attributes and contributions they've made to the world in their lifetime? 

I talked to the Lord this morning about Robin's death. I felt bad for him that he didn't find the victory over the darkness. I remembered him fondly, as he has been entertaining me, my children, and likely my grandchildren for decades, starting with Mork and Mindy. Nobody could do that kind of rapid fire comedy style like he could! I appreciated him in several more dramatic roles as well, coz he could do them pretty well too. I asked God to tell him thank you for all the laughs, and that he will be missed.


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## Guest (Aug 12, 2014)

People who are mentally ill take drugs IN ORDER TO QUIET THEIR SYMPTOMS....over time, they become addicted, and judged to be total idiots by people such as OX..

May OX never have incurable insomnia or panic attacks which prescription meds don't help..may he never experience total and complete despair..may he NEVER walk a mile or even a half mile in someone's shoes who has these problems...and may God forgive him for his lack of human compassion for those fellow humans who suffer wounds that cannot be seen.


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## Raeven (Oct 11, 2011)

There are ugly hearts everywhere. They lack the empathy and compassion genes. The only "legitimate" perspective is their own.

I suppose when those qualities are missing, such people are as deserving of pity as those who battle bipolar disease or addiction. 

Too bad such persons are unable to turn their ultra-critical eyes inward.

As for Robin Williams, he was a special one, for sure. His kooky, ad libbed comedy appealed to me in short bursts, but what I really appreciated about him was the humanity he brought to his roles in such films as Good Will Hunting, The World According to Garp, Dead Poets Society and The Birdcage. His voice work in Happy Feet as Ramon and Lovelace always made me smile, too.

I am deeply saddened to learn of his death as well as the manner of it -- though that part did not surprise me, knowing how he had battled depression for his whole life. I will miss him.


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## Oxankle (Jun 20, 2003)

WR: The news reports that he recently went thru another rehab. Now a headline reports 'The gruesome details".

Now, all the fuss about people masking symptoms with drugs. It is against the law to buy drugs not prescribed. The people who buy them from drug dealers are scofflaws. They cannot be addicted without buying drugs for some months--eighteen months or so from what I've read. So, the bi-polar who is an addict has been a scofflaw thru a cycle or two before they are addicted.

Drunks and addicts, when on their favorite substance, are just magnified versions of what they are sober. I have been personally acquainted with some people who were what we called manic-depressives; none of them were scofflaws. Sick, even hospitalized, but not criminals. Their lives were tragic, but not shameful.


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## FarmboyBill (Aug 19, 2005)

wr, yes, I BELIEVE that once a druggie, always a druggie. BY THAT, I mean that once someone quits drugs, or like I did wine, they can NEVER go back to it. 

I LOVE anything that is made of natural or artificial grapes, Grape jelly, grape pop. grapes, if I could find Concord around here. That tells me I can never take a drink of wine again. Havnt since 74, and intend to keep on keepin on.


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## rkintn (Dec 12, 2002)

bostonlesley said:


> People who are mentally ill take drugs IN ORDER TO QUIET THEIR SYMPTOMS....over time, they become addicted, and judged to be total idiots by people such as OX..
> 
> 
> 
> May OX never have incurable insomnia or panic attacks which prescription meds don't help..may he never experience total and complete despair..may he NEVER walk a mile or even a half mile in someone's shoes who has these problems...and may God forgive him for his lack of human compassion for those fellow humans who suffer wounds that cannot be seen.



I wish I could "like" this post a million times. 




Mean people suck.


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## Terri (May 10, 2002)

Oxankle said:


> I cannot be convinced that addiction is a cure for mental illness. Never in my experience did a doctor prescribe addiction for a manic-depressive, or any other patient.


NOTHING is a cure for mental illness. But people keep trying, and always have.


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## Guest (Aug 13, 2014)

Robin Williams was one of the most beloved actors/comedians because he oozed "kindness" along with zany humor..my favorite movies of his were "The Fisher King" and "Good Morning Viet Nam"...he will be sorely missed and very much mourned. In a world full of pain, he brought laughter and a poignant touch of spirit to people...so sad that he felt so lost ...


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## wr (Aug 10, 2003)

Oxankle said:


> WR: The news reports that he recently went thru another rehab. Now a headline reports 'The gruesome details".
> 
> I cannot be convinced that addiction is a cure for mental illness. Never in my experience did a doctor prescribe addiction for a manic-depressive, or any other patient. Electro-shock, Thorazine, bad enough. I only worked in the hospital for a few months, perhaps I missed something.



I never once said addiction is prescribed or cures mental illness. Lobotomies and shock therapy and institutionalization are not considered effective treatment. 

It is my understanding that Mr Williams entered rehab recently for treatment for depression and alcohol treatment bit drug abuse.


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## Oxankle (Jun 20, 2003)

We've had the alcohol discussion too. Alcohol has ruined as many lives as heroin---just a bit slower. Nowadays the law is taking a harder look at alcoholics too. 

The time may come when we return to the attitudes of the early 1900's. Let people buy what they want and take the consequences.


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## wr (Aug 10, 2003)

Oxankle said:


> We've had the alcohol discussion too. Alcohol has ruined as many lives as heroin---just a bit slower. Nowadays the law is taking a harder look at alcoholics too.
> 
> The time may come when we return to the attitudes of the early 1900's. Let people buy what they want and take the consequences.


What law is an alcoholic breaking?


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## Laura Zone 5 (Jan 13, 2010)

I know a girl who 'self medicates' with weed.
She is bi-polar.
The synthetics don't get her to a place where she can "live" and they have SO MANY side effects.
Weed.....well, it works.

I don't have bi-polar, but what I do have, gives me great empathy for those who have bi-polar, schitzophrenea, and other mental illnesses. I cannot imagine how they manage a day...the strength, and exhaustion of trying to not only get thru a day, but "live" the day.

Don't get me wrong, I do NOT like it when news reports say "he's in a better place, or he's happy now" because that encourages suicide. 
But I also can empathize with the deep valley RW was in.


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## Vahomesteaders (Jun 4, 2014)

It is very sad that we lost a great actor. But we have to find the fine line between honoring his life and glorifying what he did as ok. Many people lost their lives as a result of his choice. They think of He can't make with his fame and money and friends I don't stand a chance. Then they ended it themselves. The center for suicide prevention is been running in circles since the release of his death trying to help those who are thinking of doing the same. There are many people who suffer and struggle with cancer and other diseases everyday and they fight with all they have to live. We can't glorify giving up on life or or family and friends.


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## Terri (May 10, 2002)

I don't think that anybody is going to change their opinions: feelings have always run high on this topic!


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## wr (Aug 10, 2003)

Vahomesteaders said:


> It is very sad that we lost a great actor. But we have to find the fine line between honoring his life and glorifying what he did as ok. Many people lost their lives as a result of his choice. They think of He can't make with his fame and money and friends I don't stand a chance. Then they ended it themselves. The center for suicide prevention is been running in circles since the release of his death trying to help those who are thinking of doing the same. There are many people who suffer and struggle with cancer and other diseases everyday and they fight with all they have to live. We can't glorify giving up on life or or family and friends.


I don't think anyone is glorifying suicide and would hope that the reason for the surge of calls to the suicide hotlines is because things like that do create awareness. 

We saw an influx of calls to helplines after a mentally ill man beheaded a young man on a bus and when another mentally ill man stabbed several young people at a house party. 

I personally struggled for a very long time to understand why someone would 'quit' on their friends and family as well until a good friend committed suicide and it really had less to do with giving up on life and fighting a good fight as it was a way to make emotional/psychological agony stop just as some terminally ill patients do it to end physical suffering.


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## Twp.Tom (Dec 29, 2010)

I personally struggled for a very long time to understand why someone would 'quit' on their friends and family as well until a good friend committed suicide and it really had less to do with giving up on life and fighting a good fight as it was a way to make emotional/psychological agony stop just as some terminally ill patients do it to end physical suffering.[/QUOTE]


I agree Wr. People that commit suicide have some serious pain, be it mental, physical, or emotional. And out of desperation, they make that fatal decision. May God help those that feel this way.


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## oneraddad (Jul 20, 2010)

I took VA SSRI med's for 6 1/2 years.... Dec 6th will be one year since I stopped all VA med's, I just smoke pot now.


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## wr (Aug 10, 2003)

Twp.Tom said:


> I personally struggled for a very long time to understand why someone would 'quit' on their friends and family as well until a good friend committed suicide and it really had less to do with giving up on life and fighting a good fight as it was a way to make emotional/psychological agony stop just as some terminally ill patients do it to end physical suffering.



I agree Wr. People that commit suicide have some serious pain, be it mental, physical, or emotional. And out of desperation, they make that fatal decision. May God help those that feel this way.[/QUOTE]

My neighbor suffered from depression and while she adored her family and friends, she made the decision to lay between the frame and box of a grain truck while the box slowly lowered. 

The only thing I know for sure is the emotional pain had to be incredibly horrible for her to even consider such a thing or to leave her family and leave her family and friends with such a terrible memory.


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## Oxankle (Jun 20, 2003)

WR: First, the alcoholic is breaking the moral law against self-destruction...people tend to overlook that.

What the temporal law looks at is the damage they do. Drunks do not get taken home by the cops nowadays, they go to jail. If a drunk causes a serious accident he/she is likely to end in prison. Not at all what it was 50 years ago when drunks were tolerated. Even so the US is behind other countries in treating such behavior. Assault a cop and a drunk might be shot today; a few years ago a few licks with a baton was all that resulted.

The same shift in attitudes is coming around to drug use. I think in time we will allow people to destroy themselves if they wish, but we will punish them for the damage they do. 

We do not have the means to punish either drunks or drug addicts for the social costs of damage to their families or society at large. This is the principle reason for the moral stand against both alcoholism and addiction. 

We list gluttony as one of the sins of mankind. If people were to resist taking too much of either alcohol or drugs there would be no fault---but that does not happen.
Drugs gradually drag mankind down---few can limit the use once addicted. Alcohol we have learned to live with--except for those sad few. 

Those who defend addicts and alcoholics should take a look at the social and economic costs to both the families and the public. Not one of you who has a drunk or an addict among your acquaintances will deny these costs.


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## Shrek (May 1, 2002)

Some of the most self destructed addicts I have ever seen were addicted to narrow mindedness and bible thumping, drum beating , mantra chanting or some other irritating incessant behavior.

One old holier than thou bible thumper recently curled her toes at a local nursing home in her 80s and over the course of 20 years since her husband died she alienated her family, church group and had become a game of "Not me. Your it to go tend to her" among the nursing home staff.

When we heard the old gal had curled her toes, one of the guys said he knew her when she was human before she started passing judgment on everybody and said he hoped he never grew so bitter as he grew old to be like her and only have two funeral directors present at his planting.


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## Terri (May 10, 2002)

Oxankle said:


> Not one of you who has a drunk or an addict among your acquaintances will deny these costs.


Some of us are also close enough to them to see how hard they fight their addiction. 

For some foolishness-like smoking, like booze- there can be a very high cost to both themselves and to society. You can warn a teen but teens do not always listen and they sometimes make the foolish choice. They never think they will have a hole cut in their throat due to cancer (My husband's Uncle) or get hooked on a substance (Both DH's siblings).

Some juvenile decisions can never be taken back. 

The now-adult can fight it or not: I respect those who, like Mr. Williams, fight.


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## wr (Aug 10, 2003)

Oxankle said:


> WR: First, the alcoholic is breaking the moral law against self-destruction...people tend to overlook that.
> 
> What the temporal law looks at is the damage they do. Drunks do not get taken home by the cops nowadays, they go to jail. If a drunk causes a serious accident he/she is likely to end in prison. Not at all what it was 50 years ago when drunks were tolerated. Even so the US is behind other countries in treating such behavior. Assault a cop and a drunk might be shot today; a few years ago a few licks with a baton was all that resulted.
> 
> ...


Ox, I understand the implications of addictions better than most and I can also understand how one may use the bible as a guideline as to how one should live but you specifically said 'the law' was nowadays was taking a harder look at alcohol too so I would ask you again to clarify, what law an alcohol addicted person is breaking.


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## rambotex (May 5, 2014)

Oxankle said:


> WR: First, the alcoholic is breaking the moral law against self-destruction...people tend to overlook that.
> 
> What the temporal law looks at is the damage they do. Drunks do not get taken home by the cops nowadays, they go to jail. If a drunk causes a serious accident he/she is likely to end in prison. Not at all what it was 50 years ago when drunks were tolerated. Even so the US is behind other countries in treating such behavior. Assault a cop and a drunk might be shot today; a few years ago a few licks with a baton was all that resulted.
> 
> ...


They are diseases and unless you Sir, or Madam, have experienced it, I suggest you get off the stump. We aren't all perfect


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## Oxankle (Jun 20, 2003)

"Diseases" A cop-out. Self-inflicted wounds. Who holds a man down and forces him to drink whiskey? Who forces a man to take cocaine? No one is addicted to any substance until they VOLUNTARILY ingest it over a period of time.

Calling alcoholism and drug addiction diseases is simply an excuse for psychiatrists to treat patients on insurance money, and an excuse for addicts and drunks to keep their habits.

As for perfection, no one is perfect, but if you are a drunk nor an addict you can get a hell of a lot better than you are. You are not chained to your booze, and people prove it every day.


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## summerdaze (Jun 11, 2009)

A wise man once told me that we ALL have our dung heaps, and everyone thinks THEIR dung heap isn't as bad as somebody's else's. THEIRS doesn't stink quite as bad, and isn't as high as some other people's. They could clean up THEIR dung heap a lot quicker then SOME people!

Some people's dung heap may be piling up by a really wicked temper, anger, and jealousy. Some others are made up by lies upon lies, upon lies. Some heaps are stacking up with infidelity, and sexual deviations of some sort or another. Some heaps are piled up with booze bottles or drug paraphernalia. We all tend to "rate" the dung heaps of others. One might be a negative person in almost every aspect, to the point where others can't stand to be around them. But the negative person thinks that THEIR dung heap isn't NEARLY as bad as their neighbors, b/c THAT person likes to go to the porn sites. A person who's made up their dung heap with suspicious thoughts, a nasty attitude, and a penchant for wanting to tear others down CANT be as bad as the lady's heap that cheated on her husband....RIGHT? What if you're a pretty good person but often times think the worst of people, are pessimistic, and usually see the glass as half empty? Your heap looks pretty good next to the person's heap of laziness, dishonesty, or eating disorders, huh?

WE rate them, and we justify our OWN dung heaps, and we make some heaps "worse" then others. But the thing is, they ARE ALL DUNG HEAPS in one way or another, and they ALL NEED TO GO!!
And I don't think it matters so much HOW we got there, as how WILLING we are to let go of them. I believe the Creator would like to see us freed of ALL destructive behaviors, seen and unseen by others. If you've overcome some of the things in YOUR pile, why not try to support and encourage others in THEIR battles? (whether they've asked you to or not) The Bible says something about being kind to others, for everyone is fighting a great battle. Some are unseen.


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## Jaclynne (May 14, 2002)

Oxankle said:


> No, Terri, I do not. And if that is the case, Williams had to make a conscious decision to become a drug addict. On the other hand, a person who is both mentally ill AND a drug addict might be so depressed that suicide seems a welcome option. We've all heard of people who do really stupid things when under the influence of drugs.


Ox, I'm not sure you realize that for a creative person if modern medicine even touches their illness it usually/often destroys their creativity. Drinking or smoking pot doesn't have that effect, often just the opposite. I don't know as much about other recreational drugs but I've been told some of them seem to enhance creativity too. No one starts with a drink etc., with the plan to become addicted.

I don't know which choice I'd make.


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## L.A. (Nov 15, 2007)

May God Bless you Mr. Robin Williams,
And may you rest in peace.

Thank you for being,,,,you.


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## Guest (Aug 14, 2014)

summerdaze said:


> A wise man once told me that we ALL have our dung heaps, and everyone thinks THEIR dung heap isn't as bad as somebody's else's. THEIRS doesn't stink quite as bad, and isn't as high as some other people's. They could clean up THEIR dung heap a lot quicker then SOME people!
> 
> Some people's dung heap may be piling up by a really wicked temper, anger, and jealousy. Some others are made up by lies upon lies, upon lies. Some heaps are stacking up with infidelity, and sexual deviations of some sort or another. Some heaps are piled up with booze bottles or drug paraphernalia. We all tend to "rate" the dung heaps of others. One might be a negative person in almost every aspect, to the point where others can't stand to be around them. But the negative person thinks that THEIR dung heap isn't NEARLY as bad as their neighbors, b/c THAT person likes to go to the porn sites. A person who's made up their dung heap with suspicious thoughts, a nasty attitude, and a penchant for wanting to tear others down CANT be as bad as the lady's heap that cheated on her husband....RIGHT? What if you're a pretty good person but often times think the worst of people, are pessimistic, and usually see the glass as half empty? Your heap looks pretty good next to the person's heap of laziness, dishonesty, or eating disorders, huh?
> 
> ...


EXCELLENT...BTW, this was circulated in the 1970's in therapy sessions..I don't know who wrote it, but it's "spot on"....the end of it is the imagery of people turning AROUND with the shovel...start getting that shovel into the manure pile and eventually leveling it.


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## Oxankle (Jun 20, 2003)

Therapy for whom, Lesley? Was it designed to make patients feel better about themselves? How does that help? (I'm a junkie, but he's hard-hearted, so he's as bad as I am. I have my faults, he has his!)

There is no disputing the fact that no human is created in perfection, but some faults are far more self-destructive than others and should be discouraged. Making excuses for them does not help society.


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## Terri (May 10, 2002)

Smoking is not ALWAYS as destructive as drinking, but it can be. So why pick on booze and drugs?


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## oneraddad (Jul 20, 2010)

I like to go fast on dirt bikes and have owned one since 1969. 

I got addicted at a very young age and even gave the addiction to a couple of my boys. We traveled all over the West coast racing as a family building some awesome memories because of it. I wouldn't trade it for anything !


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## wr (Aug 10, 2003)

Oxankle said:


> Therapy for whom, Lesley? Was it designed to make patients feel better about themselves? How does that help? (I'm a junkie, but he's hard-hearted, so he's as bad as I am. I have my faults, he has his!)
> 
> There is no disputing the fact that no human is created in perfection, but some faults are far more self-destructive than others and should be discouraged. Making excuses for them does not help society.


What makes you think that junkies are the only people who see therapists? 
Are you truly that poorly informed, stirring the pot or simply justifying your need to feel morally superior?


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## Oxankle (Jun 20, 2003)

No, HFM, I was simply inquiring. Our subject has been drugs and alcohol. If the "dung heap" sermon was intended for some other type of therapy you might enlighten me. 
I've no idea what "therapy" entails---I've never known any but alcoholics and drug addicts to engage in it. 

I've known that some people are so totally alone and friendless that they got to shrinks to unburden themselves, and a father I know whose son is a shrink tells me that his son makes a good living. The kinds of problems they solve are unknown to me.


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## wr (Aug 10, 2003)

Oxankle said:


> No, HFM, I was simply inquiring. Our subject has been drugs and alcohol. If the "dung heap" sermon was intended for some other type of therapy you might enlighten me.
> I've no idea what "therapy" entails---I've never known any but alcoholics and drug addicts to engage in it.
> 
> I've known that some people are so totally alone and friendless that they got to shrinks to unburden themselves, and a father I know whose son is a shrink tells me that his son makes a good living. The kinds of problems they solve are unknown to me.


So, if you don't know what therapy involves, who it may treat and what it may do, why bother being condescending and judgmental? I've know it to help treat the emotional scars of children who have been beaten and abused by parents, people who've been raped, victims of ugly accidents, survivors of ugly events, etc. My son was 17 years old when a coworker died beside him on a remote drilling rig and he had a bit of therapy to cope with the gore of his friend's death and survivor's guilt. 

In my community, a young girl who is the lone survivor of a car accident (parent and siblings killed), a sweet little boy who's uncle died in front of him in an ugly farm accident are two examples of people receiving help in therapy. 

None are junkies or drunks so why do they deserve your contempt and scorn?


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## billooo2 (Nov 23, 2004)

Oxankle said:


> No, HFM, I was simply inquiring. Our subject has been drugs and alcohol. If the "dung heap" sermon was intended for some other type of therapy you might enlighten me.
> I've no idea what "therapy" entails---I've never known any but alcoholics and drug addicts to engage in it.
> 
> I've known that some people are so totally alone and friendless that they got to shrinks to unburden themselves, and a father I know whose son is a shrink tells me that his son makes a good living. The kinds of problems they solve are unknown to me.



Sorry Ox......over the years you have displayed too much knowledge and experience for this level of ignorance to be believable. :shrug:


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## Oxankle (Jun 20, 2003)

HFM, and you, Billoo:
I do not dabble in therapy and know nothing about it---even in the psychiatric hospital it was all drugs in my end of the work--no chit-chat with the patients. 

Further, I have not and will not exhibit scorn for truly traumatized patients---our subject here has been booze and dope. Those I have seen, up to and including suicide. 

These are self inflicted wounds no different from the fellow who plays Russian Roulette. Everyone knows the danger; some people ignore it, some think it will never happen to them. Then when they are hooked they want pity? Sorry, little of that here. 

Every man and every woman is born with free will. Those who choose to submit to booze or dope have made choices. There is help out there for those who want to come in out of the squalor they make of their lives--that too is a choice. 

Making excuses, "Poor, Poor Billy, his alcoholism is a disease" is a cop out, close to enabling. The physical results of addiction may require medical treatment, but the choice to dabble with harmful substances had nothing to do with medicine, it had to do with character and free will. 

I wonder how the survivors of tragedy managed before there were shrinks.


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## wr (Aug 10, 2003)

Oxankle said:


> HFM, and you, Billoo:
> I wonder how the survivors of tragedy managed before there were shrinks.


Does it matter how they managed before and should they be left to suffer because their ancestors did? Would it be okay if we still gave folks a shot of whiskey and hauled a tooth out with piers or do we assume that okays okay to make folks lives a bit less uncomfortable? 

I can speak directly for the matter regarding my son and I assume he would have gone forward and eventually been fine but my ultimate concern was that because he was young, I would prefer he learned healthy ways to cope with the tragedy rather than picking up a destructive way to deal with it.


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## wr (Aug 10, 2003)

Oxankle said:


> HFM, and you, Billoo:
> I wonder how the survivors of tragedy managed before there were shrinks.


Does it matter how they managed before and should they be left to suffer because their ancestors did? There was a time when we gave folks a shot of whiskey and hauled a tooth out with piers but we now have ways to make that a bit less uncomfortable. 

If 'shrinks' help people cope with difficulties in such a way that they don't self medicate with drugs or alcohol, it really can't be that bad.


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## Raeven (Oct 11, 2011)

Statement by Susan Schneider, Robin Williams' widow: 

_"Robin's sobriety was intact and he was brave as he struggled with his own battles of depression, anxiety as well as early stages of Parkinson's Disease, which he was not yet ready to share publicly.

It is our hope in the wake of Robin's tragic passing, that others will find the strength to seek the care and support they need to treat whatever battles they are facing so they may feel less afraid."_

http://www.cnn.com/2014/08/14/showbiz/robin-williams-parkinsons-disease/index.html?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+rss%2Fcnn_showbiz+%28RSS%3A+Entertainment%29

I can't think why this man should be deserving of our heartfelt humanity or generosity of spirit.


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## doingitmyself (Jul 30, 2013)

A child, or adult can become an alcoholic when they have the very first drink, this is a fact. It is a fact that one may become addicted to drugs with the very first use. It is also a fact many children very early, even preteen with no understanding of the substance will experiment at a peers request to"just try it". Sometimes addictions happen slow and sometimes instantly. 

I can't understand the lack of compassion, unless it is driven by a lack of education and i do not believe that is the case. It simply baffles me. 

Robin gave far more than he ever asked for, he deserves respect, compassion, and empathy. He was not a child molester, drug dealer, or gang banger. 

I think some of these post's are just pot stirring reflective of a boring life or day at work.


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## Oxankle (Jun 20, 2003)

Puts a whole new light on his troubles. I cannot help wondering why he decided to kill himself and put his family thru this, but if he was not drunk he had a reason that made sense to him, if not to his family or to us.


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## Terri in WV (May 10, 2002)

Ox, if you look back over his life, you will find that he was highly energetic and extremely quick witted. It seemed like he had to get it out or he'd explode, that his brain was always in gear.

I can't help but to think(and believe) that his brain got the best of him. That he had used drugs and alcohol to quiet it and after stopping those years ago, he was left with a continuos battle for quiet.

I don't know if you've ever had trouble sleeping because your brain won't shut up. I do on occasion and it's not pleasant to know your asleep and still feel awake.


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## wr (Aug 10, 2003)

Oxankle said:


> Puts a whole new light on his troubles. I cannot help wondering why he decided to kill himself and put his family thru this, but if he was not drunk he had a reason that made sense to him, if not to his family or to us.


Perhaps that's why your big book discourages people from sitting in judgement of others.


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## Guest (Aug 15, 2014)

"Therapy"...useful for people who have emotional health issues which can be overwhelming..like sudden death of a child...suicide of a spouse...debilitating illness..post-traumatic stress disorder...depression..anxiety...severe insomnia...addiction/alcoholism...obsessive/compulsive disorder..anorexia/bulemia..and dozens of other very real issues.

The imagery of a manure pile behind you that you've created over the years is applicable to everyone...we are all human..we all have piles and piles of "stuff" in our psyches that we enjoy holding onto while happily judging others..it's similar, if you will, to the scriptural notion of having a giant log stuck in your eye while pointing with disgust to the mote in your neighbor's eye...


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## Ardie/WI (May 10, 2002)

Oxankle said:


> HFM, and you, Billoo:
> I do not dabble in therapy and know nothing about it---even in the psychiatric hospital it was all drugs in my end of the work--no chit-chat with the patients.
> 
> Further, I have not and will not exhibit scorn for truly traumatized patients---our subject here has been booze and dope. Those I have seen, up to and including suicide.
> ...


:stirpot:


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## billooo2 (Nov 23, 2004)

bostonlesley said:


> "Therapy"...useful for people who have emotional health issues which can be overwhelming..like sudden death of a child...suicide of a spouse...debilitating illness..post-traumatic stress disorder...depression..anxiety...severe insomnia...addiction/alcoholism...obsessive/compulsive disorder..anorexia/bulemia..and dozens of other very real issues.
> 
> The imagery of a manure pile behind you that you've created over the years is applicable to everyone...we are all human..we all have piles and piles of "stuff" in our psyches that we enjoy holding onto while happily judging others..it's similar, if you will, to the scriptural notion of having a giant log stuck in your eye while pointing with disgust to the mote in your neighbor's eye...



This thread has reminded me of another passage from the Bible......Luke 18:9-14

9 To some who were confident of their own righteousness and looked down on everyone else, Jesus told this parable: 10 âTwo men went up to the temple to pray, one a Pharisee and the other a tax collector. 11 The Pharisee stood by himself and prayed: âGod, I thank you that I am not like other peopleârobbers, evildoers, adulterersâor even like this tax collector. 12 I fast twice a week and give a tenth of all I get.â

13 âBut the tax collector stood at a distance. He would not even look up to heaven, but beat his breast and said, âGod, have mercy on me, a sinner.â

14 âI tell you that this man, rather than the other, went home justified before God. For all those who exalt themselves will be humbled, and those who humble themselves will be exalted.â

https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Luke+18:9-14

I don't know if anyone else finds this passage relevant to this thread.....??? :shrug:


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## Shrek (May 1, 2002)

Oxankle said:


> Puts a whole new light on his troubles. I cannot help wondering why he decided to kill himself and put his family thru this, but if he was not drunk he had a reason that made sense to him, if not to his family or to us.


The latest news reports indicate that he had his past demons and depression pretty well under control until he was early stage diagnosed with onset Parkinson's that intensified his depression and although he wanted to enter rehab again to try to gain control of the added factors , he had to postpone it because his series future was still up in the air at the time.

He had his old depression demons yammering at him, the new demon of Parkinson's knocking and his television employment future in limbo.

That would be a bitter sandwich for anyone to be served up with. He simply chose the only option he considered best and within his grasp as he reached his breaking point.


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## wyld thang (Nov 16, 2005)

oneraddad said:


> I like to go fast on dirt bikes and have owned one since 1969.
> 
> I got addicted at a very young age and even gave the addiction to a couple of my boys. We traveled all over the West coast racing as a family building some awesome memories because of it. I wouldn't trade it for anything !


I share your addiction and am completely unrepentant. I can also say this addiction has gotten me through some really nasty times, as well as for my boys.


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## Oxankle (Jun 20, 2003)

"The latest news reports indicate that he had his past demons and depression pretty well under control until he was early stage diagnosed with onset Parkinson's that intensified his depression and although he wanted to enter rehab again to try to gain control of the added factors , he had to postpone it because his series future was still up in the air at the time.

He had his old depression demons yammering at him, the new demon of Parkinson's knocking and his television employment future in limbo."

With Parkinson's in the picture his employment might be ending---only he knows exactly what the doctors told him. They certainly told him how it ends. 

We don't know his financial status, but his treatment was going to be costly. He may have just decided to quit while he was ahead and leave his family with what they had now, plus his insurance money. 

There will be more news in the coming weeks, including he toxicology report.


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## RubyRed (Sep 24, 2011)

Oxankle said:


> He may have just decided to quit while he was ahead and leave his family with what they had now, plus his insurance money.
> 
> There will be more news in the coming weeks, including he toxicology report.


If you are referring to insurance money as in life insurance, I thought when someone commits suicide there is nothing to claim? Has this changed?


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## Litlbits (Jan 6, 2014)

Suicide clauses in life insurance policies vary by state. In Missouri, the policy is only null and void for the first two years from effective date. So if I had a policy for 3 years and committed suicide, the death benefit would be payable to my beneficiary.


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## RubyRed (Sep 24, 2011)

That is interesting, thank you Litlbits.


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## wr (Aug 10, 2003)

Oxankle said:


> "The latest news reports indicate that he had his past demons and depression pretty well under control until he was early stage diagnosed with onset Parkinson's that intensified his depression and although he wanted to enter rehab again to try to gain control of the added factors , he had to postpone it because his series future was still up in the air at the time.
> 
> He had his old depression demons yammering at him, the new demon of Parkinson's knocking and his television employment future in limbo."
> 
> ...



I'm not sure what demons you're speaking of but I'm guessing it would be depression and they only people who would know for sure are family and they really haven't said much past the initial statement. There do seem to be plenty of thoughts and opinions from unnamed 'friends'. 

True friends don't use a tragedy to gain tabloid attention and it's ineffective to try and draw conclusions based on scraps of misinformation and tabloid speculation.


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