# Thinking about a new rifle



## JJ Grandits (Nov 10, 2002)

I've always been a shotgun guy and never got to involved with rifles. Had some rimfires over the years and currently own a Savage markII in .22 LR and a lever action Marlin in .22 mag. Both are scoped and really great guns. I also have a Mosin Nagant which I bought for next to nothing. Anyways I've been researching centerfire rifles for quite awhile and decided on a Marlin XS7 in .243 to meet some of my needs. It's the next rifle Im having trouble with. The .243 will be used for target, varmint, and deer. My deer hunting at an extreme are shots no farther then 150 yards. The .243 should do the job. The next rifle will also be used for target shooting and heavier game at greater distances. So far I've come with the traditional .30/06, 7mm Rem mag, 7mm 08, and the .300 win mag. as possible calibres. It would be used for Black Bear, Whitetail, and I'd like to try Antelope and Bison too. Most of the time it would be used for punching hole in small objects far away. Unless I win the lottery these two rifles will have to do it all for me for a long time. Terminal ballistics and accuracy are everything. Recoil is not an issue for me. I will be ordering the .243 in a week or two and then I can start saving for the other gun. Any suggestions would be appreciated.


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## simi-steading (Sep 27, 2012)

I'm a huge Mauser fan... I've got a 7mm model 1908 Brazilian and a 6.5mm Model 94 Swedish that's been sporterized.. 

Right now, ammo for them is easily available since they are somewhat of an odd ball size... They are also decent priced... usually less than 30-06... I buy 20 rounds of PPU 7mm for $16.. or at least I did a couple months ago.. 

VERY flat shooting guns and incredibly accurate at long ranges, and price wise, they are under priced compared to a lot more common caliber rifles.. As far as recoil ,they are both all day shooters... I've put a couple hundred rounds through my 7mm in a day and still wanted to shoot more...

Both the 7mm and the 6.5 have been used for years to take big game.. One hunter took over 300 elephants with a 7mm...

You can pick up a 7mm Brazilian in really nice condition for around $300 to 350. When I bought mine they were priced around $125, and mine was an unissued armory shelf queen.. .You'd swear it was a brand new gun..


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## simi-steading (Sep 27, 2012)

Here's an example of a nice one for sale.. 

http://www.armslist.com/posts/83158...les-for-sale-trade--brazillian-mauser-98-7x57


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## JJ Grandits (Nov 10, 2002)

I thought about some of the "European" cartridges. Those who own them speak incredibly highly of them. I guess my main concern would be ammo availability, not that things are looking to good now for anything anyways. Im going to a gun auction on the 23rd and their are some Mauser type rifles listed. One is a 1903 7mm Brazilian. They also list a 1903 springfield bolt action in 30/30. I don't know if that is a misprint or if they made them in that cartridge.


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## simi-steading (Sep 27, 2012)

That has to be a misprint on the 1903... They are 30-06... and right now, NOT CHEAP.. I've been wanting one or quite a while and been looking at the last few gun shows. Haven't found a decent one under a grand to $1200 and up... 

As far as available 7mm mauser ammo... just an example.. 
http://www.targetsportsusa.com/c-96-7mm-mauser-7x57mm-ammo.aspx
http://www.ammunitiontogo.com/index.php/cName/rifle-ammo-7mm-mauser

Notice it's in stock everywhere.... I've gotten some of the PPU for paper punching, and it's decent shooting ammo... and cheap...

Granted, though, you won't find 7mm Mauser ammo in your local Wal-Mart ammo case..


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## simi-steading (Sep 27, 2012)

BTW, that would be a 1908 Brazilian.... The same as I have, and my most favorite rifle I have to shoot... I haven't shot my Sewdish yet though... We'll have to see which I like better. I'm betting it will still be the Brazilian.. It's just smooth as butter, and super accurate with open sights and the recoil is a dream...


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## RonM (Jan 6, 2008)

I am a .308 fan , check it out....Lever or Bolt or pump as I have.....


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## simi-steading (Sep 27, 2012)

I got a lever action rotating bolt 308. IT's a Winchester 88... Nice gun for sure, but it's not an all day shooter like my Mauser is... First round I let off I could have sworn I was shooting a 1903 Springfield. I could have sworn it was a 30-06... It's also a fair amount heavier than my Mausers.. 

The problem is right now.. good luck finding 308 ammo, and when you do, be prepared to pay way too much for it. I've picked up a couple boxes recently, but MAN does it hurt..


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## GREENCOUNTYPETE (Jul 25, 2006)

off the rack commercial bolt rifles in 243 308 30-06 are at an all time low cost with an all time out of the box accuracy , and from several manufacturers 

savage really lead the way with the Axis rifle we have seen them on the marker 4-5 years now as the edge or axis 300 dollars gets you an out of the box MOA gun some even reporting sub minute 

why automated cnc machining and injection molded poly a casting or bar stock can go into a machine and come out ready to blue and add a trigger group and barrel , it drops into a stock molded around an aluminum block with a barrel that can be changed out very simply because of the barrel nut desing 

machining tolerances and free floated barrel result in a accurate rifle out of the box 
add in the ease of adding optics with everything already drilled and tapped and i think even comes with the scope mount base.

Ruger , Marlin and Mossberg all followed with similar rifles in the starting range right around 300 dollars 

mill surplus definitely has more character and there have been some very nice sporter jobs , but for a budget hunting gun that gets it done with no fuss box to range sight in to fields and meat on the table it is hard to beat these new bolts


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## simi-steading (Sep 27, 2012)

Gotta agree about the Mil Sup having more character... I'm not a poly stock fan at all... Just not the same at all as a gun in wood.


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## Allen W (Aug 2, 2008)

simi-steading said:


> I got a lever action rotating bolt 308. IT's a Winchester 88... Nice gun for sure, but it's not an all day shooter like my Mauser is... First round I let off I could have sworn I was shooting a 1903 Springfield. I could have sworn it was a 30-06... It's also a fair amount heavier than my Mausers..
> 
> The problem is right now.. good luck finding 308 ammo, and when you do, be prepared to pay way too much for it. I've picked up a couple boxes recently, but MAN does it hurt..


 
Very little difference in the ballistics of the two rounds.


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## simi-steading (Sep 27, 2012)

No, there isn't much.. matter a fact, usually a 308 will be more accurate.. but I didn't expect as big of kick as I got since the shell is a little shorter... I learned real fast it's not the size of the shell that matters.. LOL.. IT's amazing how much less my 7mm kicks and is the longest shell I have..


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## JJ Grandits (Nov 10, 2002)

I agree with Greencountypete. There are some fantastic firearms available now at very low prices. Twenty years ago to get a rifle that performed like the new Savages or Marlins would set you back some. If we could only buy the ammo for them it would be great.


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## GREENCOUNTYPETE (Jul 25, 2006)

I have been doing some more reading about the ruger american . now i need to get my hands one one of them to try.


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## Pops2 (Jan 27, 2003)

Might want consider my next rifle, a TC Dimension. It is a switch barrel multicaliber design at a reasonable price.


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

I'd get the 7/08 
It will be the *only* rifle you need if you reload for it.


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## JJ Grandits (Nov 10, 2002)

Again, I have heard some great things about the 7mm/08. I understand it can hit like brick and is a real tack driver. Does anyone have a lot of experience with the .300 win mag? I shot a Savage in that calibre last year and was impressed. The recoil was nothing. At least compared to my chopped down model 37 featherweight.


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## Hollowdweller (Jul 13, 2011)

> Black Bear, Whitetail, and I'd like to try Antelope and Bison too.


358 is a good cal for those also.

Far as .243 I have a Ruger 77 RSI in .243 that's a really sweet gun.


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## simi-steading (Sep 27, 2012)

JJ Grandits said:


> Again, I have heard some great things about the 7mm/08. I understand it can hit like brick and is a real tack driver. Does anyone have a lot of experience with the .300 win mag? I shot a Savage in that calibre last year and was impressed. The recoil was nothing. At least compared to my chopped down model 37 featherweight.


The 7-08 is basically the same thing as the 7x57 (7mm Mauser) The only real difference is the length of the case. You can have a shorter bolt action using the 08... The 7-08 is a half inch shorter than the 7x57..

If you go out and read around on the gun forums out there, you'll find that most 7mm people would rather use the 7x57 over the 7-08.... I agree with them too... There's a WHOLE lot more guns out there that will chamber the 7x57 than the 7-08

You should go out and read up on the 7mm Mauser round.. It is the round the 30-06 was based on... Springfield had the buy the right from Mauser to be able to design and produce the 30-06... The 7x57 was one of the first really true modern rifle rounds out there, and it's also the oldest modern round.. 

a 7-08 is a 308 that has been necked down to 7mm... It was created some where around 1958 or so... then around the 80's some time, Remington decide to adopt it... Where as the 7x57 is it's own animal, created from scratch... 

You can supposedly load the 7x57 to similar pressures as the 7-08, but I sure wouldn't want to try it... The 7-08 can be a tad hotter pressure wise, but if you load a 7x57 to it's maximum known good recipes, it will be a faster round than the 7-08... ballistacally they are so close you'd be hard pressed to tell a difference.. .

The biggest difference is the number of guns chambered for one over the other...


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## wildcat6 (Apr 5, 2011)

GREENCOUNTYPETE said:


> I have been doing some more reading about the ruger american . now i need to get my hands one one of them to try.


 
I have seen a few pics of the Ruger American and it looks nice! What caliber does that come in?


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## simi-steading (Sep 27, 2012)

wildcat6 said:


> I have seen a few pics of the Ruger American and it looks nice! What caliber does that come in?


http://www.ruger.com/products/americanRifle/models.html (Standard)
http://www.ruger.com/products/americanRifleCompact/models.html (Compact)


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## wildcat6 (Apr 5, 2011)

Thanks Simi-Steading


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## Pops2 (Jan 27, 2003)

simi-steading said:


> The 7-08 is basically the same thing as the 7x57 (7mm Mauser) The only real difference is the length of the case. You can have a shorter bolt action using the 08... The 7-08 is a half inch shorter than the 7x57..
> 
> If you go out and read around on the gun forums out there, you'll find that most 7mm people would rather use the 7x57 over the 7-08.... I agree with them too... There's a WHOLE lot more guns out there that will chamber the 7x57 than the 7-08
> 
> ...


You can load the Mauser round hotter in new manufactured rifles and it'll blow the 7-08 out of the water.


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## simi-steading (Sep 27, 2012)

Yes, that you can do Pops, but unless I specifically only owned only those new guns, I'd never load a 7x57 that hot and run the risk of accidently dropping a hot round in an old gun.. It wouldn't be a pretty picture.. 

Next to the 30-06, the 7mm mauser is probably my favorite round... 308 is behind the 7x57 for me... We all have our own preferences...


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## Pops2 (Jan 27, 2003)

simi-steading said:


> Yes, that you can do Pops, but unless I specifically only owned only those new guns, I'd never load a 7x57 that hot and run the risk of accidently dropping a hot round in an old gun.. It wouldn't be a pretty picture..
> 
> Next to the 30-06, the 7mm mauser is probably my favorite round... 308 is behind the 7x57 for me... We all have our own preferences...


Even most of the older Mausers can handle the pressure, but that is one lottery you don't want to "win." For me it's the 8mm Mauser & the 30-06, but I have a hankerin to try a 6.5 swede.


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## simi-steading (Sep 27, 2012)

LOL.. no, you don't... I've read that the Brazilian Mausers have been proofed at pressures most other mausers can't take , but I don't think I'd even what to take that chance. I have no idea why they would be able to take more though.. not sure if they used a stronger metal, or if there was some sort of design change..


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## simi-steading (Sep 27, 2012)

I've read a few articles of people rechambering the 1908 reciever and bolt for 30-06, 308 and Nato, along with rebarreling and loading to some pretty crazy pressures... 

Supposedly the DWM factory had the best metal for Mausers and were grossly under rated for working pressures to keep the lawyers happy...


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## RonM (Jan 6, 2008)

The only ammo I am seeing available on the shelves is 30-06, 243, and 270, so keep that in mind.......


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## Pops2 (Jan 27, 2003)

simi-steading said:


> I've read a few articles of people rechambering the 1908 reciever and bolt for 30-06, 308 and Nato, along with rebarreling and loading to some pretty crazy pressures...
> 
> Supposedly the DWM factory had the best metal for Mausers and were grossly under rated for working pressures to keep the lawyers happy...


Most Mauser strength issues are pre WWI rifles and almost completely 8mm. That's because the pre & during WWI rifles in 8mm were built around a cartridge that used a .318 caliber bullet. After WWI the cartridge and weapons were redesigned around a .323 caliber bullet. Firing the already higher pressure new cartridges in the older smaller bore resulted in burst barrels & in single lug rifles the lug shearing off & bolt being driven back into the shooter's face. Consequently most US manufactures load the 8mm very light. Older single lug designs have similar problems because of modern high pressure loads and older softer metal. By WWII (really late 20s & early 30s) metallurgy was equal to the task of Y2K ammunition pressures.


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## Jolly (Jan 8, 2004)

JJ Grandits said:


> I've always been a shotgun guy and never got to involved with rifles. Had some rimfires over the years and currently own a Savage markII in .22 LR and a lever action Marlin in .22 mag. Both are scoped and really great guns. I also have a Mosin Nagant which I bought for next to nothing. Anyways I've been researching centerfire rifles for quite awhile and decided on a Marlin XS7 in .243 to meet some of my needs. It's the next rifle Im having trouble with. The .243 will be used for target, varmint, and deer. My deer hunting at an extreme are shots no farther then 150 yards. The .243 should do the job. The next rifle will also be used for target shooting and heavier game at greater distances. So far I've come with the traditional .30/06, 7mm Rem mag, 7mm 08, and the .300 win mag. as possible calibres. It would be used for Black Bear, Whitetail, and I'd like to try Antelope and Bison too. Most of the time it would be used for punching hole in small objects far away. Unless I win the lottery these two rifles will have to do it all for me for a long time. Terminal ballistics and accuracy are everything. Recoil is not an issue for me. I will be ordering the .243 in a week or two and then I can start saving for the other gun. Any suggestions would be appreciated.


May I suggest:

http://www.berettausa.com/shop-by-department/big-game-hunter/guns/tikka/

Just pick your finish. My pick would be the SS Lite, but the blued handles just as well.

Guaranteed sub-MOA. Good triggers. Slicker-than-snot-on-a-brass-doorknob bolt. Go for the 300 Win Mag (not the WSM, the regular one).

Drop a Zeiss Conquest in a set of DNZ mounts, tighten them up, sight it in with the right bullets and you are ready to hunt any big game animal in North or South America.

And most of Africa.


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## JJ Grandits (Nov 10, 2002)

Unfortunately my budget is really limited. I swear sometimes I have to skip lunch and take on another job just to shoot trap.


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## GREENCOUNTYPETE (Jul 25, 2006)

I made it to the little gun show at the vfw next town over this weekend , had i some money i would have come home with a rem 700 bdl 30-06 , you know back when they came with iron sights and scope mount nice wood a real classic deer gun at a reasonable price. i think i could have had it out the door for 350

instead i left with a bag of brass and didn't have to apologize to the wife for spending all the grocery money on a gun


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## unregistered41671 (Dec 29, 2009)

GREENCOUNTYPETE said:


> I made it to the little gun show at the vfw next town over this weekend , had i some money i would have come home with a rem 700 bdl 30-06 , you know back when they came with iron sights and scope mount nice wood a real classic deer gun at a reasonable price. i think i could have had it out the door for 350
> 
> instead i left with a bag of brass and didn't have to apologize to the wife for spending all the grocery money on a gun


Always wanted one in .06 BDL. Wish I could have gone with you. I don't need to spend the money either but, "another gun" is sometimes difficult to resist.


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## simi-steading (Sep 27, 2012)

A funny thing happened to me at the gunshow this past weekend... 

I took my wife, and she was the one that came home with a new gun... I didn't... 

BUT... I did manage to find and buy the last 300 rounds of 7.62x39 ammo they had there... it was an hour after the show opened... A small one in a small town.. .


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## GREENCOUNTYPETE (Jul 25, 2006)

Possum Belly said:


> Always wanted one in .06 BDL. Wish I could have gone with you. I don't need to spend the money either but, "another gun" is sometimes difficult to resist.


some times it is , i once went for a hair cut and came home with a gun, i guess i got a hair cut also , but that's not the part i remember 



I would have appreciated the company , but it's kind of a drive for you.

you had to walk thru the bar to get to the gun show , suppose i should have asked if i could get a walking beer for the show but it was only 10 am and i had to go cut fire wood when i got done so i didn't


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## Chuck R. (Apr 24, 2008)

JJ Grandits said:


> Does anyone have a lot of experience with the .300 win mag? I shot a Savage in that calibre last year and was impressed. The recoil was nothing. At least compared to my chopped down model 37 featherweight.


Iâve got a .300W in a REM 700 with Luepold Vari-X III 4.5-14X. Itâs an accurate cartridge that was/is used for LR matches and is currently used as a sniper cartridge. IF you reload, thereâs nothing a 30-06 or .308 can do that a .300 canât do a little bit better, it is a very versatile cartridge. 
IF youâre primarily after deer and black bear, itâs overkill unless youâre going to do some LR hunting. 

Biggest drawbacks are the recoil, which is manageable with practice, and the cost which may or may not be. Even with reloads itâs slightly more expensive just due to the brass cost, and the increased powder charge.

IF you donât need the extra oomph, and still want a LR cartridge capable for whitetails etc, Iâd look at the .260 REM (or 6.5 Creedmoor) in a LR rifle setup. With the correct twist, it will stabilize the longer 6.5mm bullets and pretty much match the trajectory of the .300 without the recoil. 

Chuck


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