# oil lamps



## Ciffer (Sep 13, 2010)

I am planning to add a non-electric light source for power outages and such. Are oil lamps the best route to go? I know kerosene is much cheaper, is that an option?


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## Astrid (Nov 13, 2010)

Aladdin lamps are the best... but pricey.


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## Just Cliff (Nov 27, 2008)

Take a look at this site. The carry some good products and not all that expensive. Also do some reading on the site about the different oils to use. Lamp oil, kerosene or Paraffin oil.
Also make sure wherever you buy to get a good amout of replacement wick for each type of lamp. 


http://www.lanternnet.com/dietz.com.htm


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## seagullplayer (Nov 6, 2008)

We have several oil lamps we use for power outages. I have found our local ACE hardware to carry lamps and the parts we might need.

We light ours up every so often to make sure all is in working order.

If you can read by the light of a lamp it is a pretty good one.


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## Cabin Fever (May 10, 2002)

The only oil lamp I would consider - if you plan to read by it - is an Aladdin lamp. An Aladdin lamp buts out about the same amount of light as a 60-watt incandescent bulb. Regular, wick only, oil lamps and hurricane lamps put out about the same light as a 9-watt Christmas tree bulb.

If you want to light a large area, my suggestion is the PetroMax lantern by Britelyt. Light output is equivalent to a 400-watt incandescent bulb, which is way more than a two mantle Coleman style lantern. The PetroMax can use a variety of liquid fuels as well: kerosene, gasoline, alcohol, diesel, biodiesel, Coleman fuel, etc.


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## MichaelK! (Oct 22, 2010)

At our cabin, we use both standard kerosene lamps and Alladins. Alladins are great and do produce a lot of light, but they are rather high maintainance to run. Replacement mantles for them are as scarce as hens teeth right now. I have not been about to order a real mantle in more than a year now. I sort of made a jury-rigged replacement by cutting up a pleated Coleman mantle.

It is relatively easy to ruin a Alladin mantle because they are very temperature dependent in their operation. A setting the produces a nice incandensant flame in 10 minutes of inattention will give you a blacken, sooty mess that requires a torch to decarbonate. If you light one for reading and are there 100% to regulate the flame, they are fantastic. If you want to light it and walk away to make dinner, you are going to get a very unpleasant surprise.

Regular oil lamps do the same thing, but less so. With a standard oil lamp, I can set it at a very low flame, then come back in 15 minutes and it will be a bright flame. If you adjust a cold lantern to a bright flame at the beginning, as it gets hotter everything will carbonate, just like the Alladin, but at least you can take scissors and cut off the ruined portion of the wick.

Kerosene is expensive, depending where you buy it. A 5 gallon can at Home Depot was 38$ (before sales tax). You might find a gas station in town that has a kerosene pump, where it will be much cheaper. A second alternative is using winter #1 diesel fuel, which is exactly the same consistancy as kerosene. You can also try regular weather #2 fuel, but it is thicker and your resulting flame will be a little smaller.

Here's one other idea that we've just started doing. I've been using a automotive jump-starting battery pack that has a build-in inverter. I can run a regular compact flourescent lamp on it for a couple of hours before the battery starts to drain.

Good luck,
Michael


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## Cabin Fever (May 10, 2002)

Michael, I have had Aladdin mantles soot - or carbon - up, but the problem has never destroyed the mantle. I just turn the wick down to a low setting and let the carbon burn off until the mantle returns to its normal condition.

With an Aladdin lamp, you have start it out at approx. one-half light immediately after lighting. Then give it a good 10 minutes or so to "warm up." Then, raise the wick a bit at a time, until just below the "sooting point." 

I'll never use standard kerosene lamp again simply due to the air pollution these put out. Yellow flames indicate incomplete combustion. Incomplete combustion spews out all sorts of nasties into the air. Proof of this is in the sooted chimney of regular lamps. A properly operated Aladdin's chimney never soots up, it stay clean.

The mantle on an Aladdin is a catalyst that burns off the volatile hydrocarbons that regular kerosene lamps spew into the atmospshere of your home.


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## ET1 SS (Oct 22, 2005)

'PetroMax Britelyt' lanterns put out a serious amount of light.

They are far more versatile than other lanterns since they burn such a wide variety of fuels.


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## Jim-mi (May 15, 2002)

Can't resist adding this;
The day and age of good LED lamps is arriving rapidly.....
Batteries verses very expensive fuel
Possible to refuel (the batterys) with the sun.
Plenty of light to read by.
NO flames.
NO fumes .
NO fire hazard.

Do a little research..........


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## MichaelK! (Oct 22, 2010)

Cabin Fever said:


> Michael, I have had Aladdin mantles soot - or carbon - up, but the problem has never destroyed the mantle. I just turn the wick down to a low setting and let the carbon burn off until the mantle returns to its normal condition.


This happened once while the wife and I got preoccupied with other activities. The lamp was sooty-burning for a good 60 minutes. The junk on the mantle was so bad I had to remove it and roast it clean in the hot coals of a wood burning fire.


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## PhilJohnson (Dec 24, 2006)

I have the cheapie kerosene lamps from a local department store plus a couple of lanterns. I've used them for years in a pinch. When I was off-grid I used kerosene lamps as the only light source for a few months. Lamp oil isn't as bright as kerosene but it isn't as smelly either. The smell doesn't bother me but I know some people are more sensitive than others. Kerosene is $3.69 a gallon here.


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## Wisconsin Ann (Feb 27, 2007)

Mostly I agree with Jim-mi, but for the long term "we're going to be in this for years", an oil lamp will be the most enduring. (or learn to make candles, but that's another thread). 

For the short-term power outages, I'd go with solar powered rechargeable batteries and LEDs. Easier to store, you don't need to find the oil or a match. speaking of matches...with the LEDs you don't run the risk of fire. I'm thinking "snow storm, roads impassable, someone knocks over the lamp" scenario. 

And LED's pollute even less than the Aladin's do.  

You can also just get a propane setup and use those high output camping lanterns  We have a camp kitchen that's used as emergency setup....propane stove, propane lantern, propane heater. NOT for use in closed rooms, tho.


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## Cyngbaeld (May 20, 2004)

You can buy propane lights that are wall mount. The brand name is Humphrey. I've known people who used them in their off grid homes as backup for solar. They connect to your large outside propane tank with copper pipes.


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## Trisha in WA (Sep 28, 2005)

I was thinking about those propane lanterns too.
Why are they less safe to use indoors than a regular oil burning lamp? They sure put out a lot of light!


Cyngbaeld, looks like I posted at the same time as you did. So, I guess now my question is, what makes those wall mount propane lights you are talking about safe, while the camp style ones aren't supposed to be used indoors?

Honest question, not being snarky. I really want to know.


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## nduetime (Dec 15, 2005)

I do not like the smell of kerosene so use oil lamps and candles only. Just regular old fashioned oil lamps do the job for me and seem to last a long time.


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## texican (Oct 4, 2003)

In a grid down for good situation, a person would be limited to the amount of fuel stored and on hand. Oil lamps/propane lamps all need fuel... if you can't replace it, you're out of lights. I have heard of newer/better led lights and actually seen some of the small lanterns. With a small pv system, a person could have power as long as the sun shines... the only weakness with a 'forever' led lighting system, imho, would be the lifespan of the batteries. I've heard about ultra long term life home pv battery systems... wish I could find one. When your storage capacity runs out with your batteries, you'd be limited to power only when the sun was a shining... sorta useless for lights, but great for nostalgic listening of music or the rare dvd movie.

I have an Alladin, several oil lamps, and a dozen el cheapos. Have Humphrey wall lights, converted to natural gas. Unless the wall lamps are adjusted 'just' right, they'll deposit a fine dusting of black soot everywhere... not even noticeable till you wash a window. Can't be good for the lungs.

The gas well on my place also produces distillate, a clear liquid with properties very similar to kerosene. It burns just like kerosene in the lamps I've tried it in. Iffen the zombies are let loose, and everything shut down, I'd be 'sitting' on anywhere from ten to 500 barrels of it. Even if they drained the tank the day before, it'd fill up again, as long as I was pulling a little gas out of the well.

Batteries are as weak of a link as is stored fuel.

As of today, I only have five gallons of 'coleman fuel', five gallons of kerosene (not too worried about that, as the condensate is available) and maybe a dozen of the small propane tanks, with the refiller and some large tanks.

Those with oil lamps, how much do you keep in storage? and how long would that last, if used every night?


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## Cyngbaeld (May 20, 2004)

Trisha in WA said:


> I was thinking about those propane lanterns too.
> Why are they less safe to use indoors than a regular oil burning lamp? They sure put out a lot of light!
> 
> 
> ...


I'm pretty sure that it is the connections to the propane tank that are considered the problem with camping lanterns. Either that or they just haven't jumped thru the right hoops with some fed regulations to get them approved for indoor use.

Any time you are using an appliance of any sort that burns fuel, you need to be sure you have adequate ventilation to remove CO, CO2 and provide O2. If you have a wood stove it is a good idea to run an air intake pipe directly from outside to an area next to the air intake on the stove. This will prevent drafts if your windows/doors aren't tight and will prevent negative air pressure if they are tight as well as providing O2.


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## Trisha in WA (Sep 28, 2005)

Thanks Cyngbaeld. We do have CO2 detector also, so I may just try the camping lantern one day and see how it works indoors. Yup our wood stove has the air intake pipe under it too.

texican, I have other forms of lighting (oil lamps, flashlights, candles), but it is never a bad idea to have more. Those lights don't take much fuel if burned for only a few hours a day I don't think. 
What I would really like is to have a bee hive and use the beeswax for candles, but until we do that, we'll have to make due with what we have.


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## Dixielee (Dec 5, 2003)

I do have a few oil lamps and recommend the Dietz kind as well. They are sturdier, less chance to break the globe and safer if you have children or pets around. They have a heavy duty handle so they can be taken from place to place and hung from hooks. They are easy to fill and maintain.

As far as running out of oil eventually in a SHTF scenario, I think we will all be doing a lot of "up with the sun, down with the sun" activities. I have no idea how long oil lamps have been around, but at least since the time of Christ, so somebody, somewhere will have oil to sell. I have seen sites where you can make olive oil lamps out of any wick material, a mason jar, a bit of metal wire and olive oil. Maybe not bright enough to perform surgery, but enough to play checkers by!


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## Cabin Fever (May 10, 2002)

texican said:


> ....Those with oil lamps, how much do you keep in storage? and how long would that last, if used every night?


If - actually, when - we run out of our stored fuel, there will always be a plentiful supply of cat oil. Even though, I haven't tried it, I'm sure cat oil will work just fine in out multi-fuel PetroMax lantern.


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## Trisha in WA (Sep 28, 2005)

Dixielee said:


> I have seen sites where you can make olive oil lamps out of any wick material, a mason jar, a bit of metal wire and olive oil. Maybe not bright enough to perform surgery, but enough to play checkers by!


I have one of those too! I use lard in mine.


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## wvstuck (Sep 19, 2008)

I second the Aladdin Lamps, they produce a cleaner burn, a brighter light and no kerosene smell. I Buy mine from Sonset Marina http://www.aladdin-us.com/ You can get them as low as $88.00 a piece. As far as carbon sooting on the mantle, just keep the flame adjusted properly and don't try to get it "just a little brighter" (and allow time for warm up).

I keep two hanging Aladdins for power outages as well as one Genie III for the table. Once dinner is over we go to one hanging Aladdin and then use regular oil lamps in the bedrooms and bathroom.

I buy my kerosene 55 gallons at a time (The fuel supplier gives a $0.30 discount for bulk purchase, over 50 gallons) and keep 110 gallons on hand at most times. I purchased some used 55 gallon drums from a feed store for $20 each and bought a hand crank pump at Harbor Freight to transfer from the drums to 5 gallon cans. I filter the kerosene with a Mr. Funnel to remove and condensated water and contaminants. I also use an additive wich reduces carbon on wicks and mantles and adds a slight vanilla smell when the cheaper lamps are burning.

NOTE: Aladdin mantles were very hard to find, but production issues have been resolved a month or so back... Lehamans and Sonset Marina both have plenty in stock, they are cheaper at Lehmans $10.00 each 
http://www.lehmans.com/store/Lamps_...Parts___Aladdin_Oil_Lamp_Mantles___R150?Args=


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## Wisconsin Ann (Feb 27, 2007)

Since this was originally about simple power outages, I'd think that the storage of oils isn't a huge problem...although excellent problem for making your SHORT TERM solutions work long term.

Cyngbaeld hit it on the Mantle type propane lamps. they produce a lot of light, but can produce deadly fumes...like the propane heaters that are meant for outdoor heating, barns, fishing huts, etc. Every year we hear about someone who dies from using one in a home or even in a trailer.  The lanterns are less likely to cause problems, but it's possible.

One thing that we've not mentioned is a diesel generator for whole house backup. They can run on any oil, including waste motor oill (some do need filtering). If the outage is for a few days (like hurricane, blizzard, tornado) you're able to run all your appliances and not lose the things that are in the freezer/fridge. It's also possible in a long term situation to press your own oil from seeds.


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## Jim-mi (May 15, 2002)

wvstuck you are fortunate in a way to be able to purchase kerosene as you describe.
Around here just finding a place that has kero is hard to do.

My attitude toward kero lamps might change a bit . .>IF< getting the fuel were not so hard to do. . .and VERY pricey.


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## Ross (May 9, 2002)

Anything that burns can produce deadly fumes but as Cabin says the mantle types are very safe. You might consider fixed gas lamps, that you simply connect to a propane tank outside. Same mantle clean burn, same excellent light, much reduced fire hazzard.


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## texican (Oct 4, 2003)

Trisha in WA said:


> Thanks Cyngbaeld. We do have CO2 detector also, so I may just try the camping lantern one day and see how it works indoors. Yup our wood stove has the air intake pipe under it too.
> 
> texican, I have other forms of lighting (oil lamps, flashlights, candles), but it is never a bad idea to have more. Those lights don't take much fuel if burned for only a few hours a day I don't think.
> What I would really like is to have a bee hive and use the beeswax for candles, but until we do that, we'll have to make due with what we have.


There ya go!
Have you got wild bees in the area? There are some ways of tracking wild bees back to their hives... I'd be robbing some wild hives, when my sugar stocks disappeared... and, take the wax too!


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## texican (Oct 4, 2003)

Cabin Fever said:


> If - actually, when - we run out of our stored fuel, there will always be a plentiful supply of cat oil. Even though, I haven't tried it, I'm sure cat oil will work just fine in out multi-fuel PetroMax lantern.


Would that be Caterpillar "cat oil" or Puss'n'boots "cat oil"? 

DixieLee... I'd sell you some, or more'n likely barter with you for some.

I could see having a medieval type inn, in a PAW... warm bed, hot shower/bath, and fill your vehicle up with rot-gut gasoline, that would also feed your lamps and lanterns. If things got safe enough to do this, I'd probably take silver or gold, for payment.


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## ||Downhome|| (Jan 12, 2009)

Coleman multi-fuel lanterns work like the Petromax but are a good bit cheaper.
not as pretty and maybe not as bright but they do put out a ton of light.

neither is approved for indoor use but got to safer then a dozen candles or knocking over a kerosene lamp and starting a fire. 

I light it out side then bring it in, its also handy if you have a way to securely hang it away from any combustibles. 

Ive seen kits that you have the lantern and a stove. not sure if they where Colemans think they where Swiss military issue.

little off topic and as a side note I posted in the "hubbys playing with gassifers thread" on the alternative energy board little it about acetylene production as a "maybe" fuel. 
calcium carbide, made from carbon (coal,charcoal) and lime mixed with water produces acetylene or carbonic gas. that is the simple break down but I became aware this was at one time a preferred way to light the farmstead and used as gas for cooking at one time. so I'm checking everything I can out as far as acetylene generators and carbide production and storage. as well as using or converting standard gas appliances over.
most gas appliances require only the orifice be changed to switch between NG and LP.
so I imagine you could with a little R&D put together a complete off the shelf modified modern acetylene system for back up or everyday use.


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## Dixielee (Dec 5, 2003)

texican said:


> DixieLee... I'd sell you some, or more'n likely barter with you for some.


Barter is good!I have an abundance of some things but not enough of everything! I'm pretty flush with medical stuff, so would be glad to barter for oil!!


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## Cabin Fever (May 10, 2002)

texican said:


> Would that be Caterpillar "cat oil" or Puss'n'boots "cat oil"?....


No, more correctly, I'm referring to "Fresh cat oil".


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## Ciffer (Sep 13, 2010)

Wow, lots of great info from everyone!!!

On the issue of fuel, several people mentioned using kerosene/#1 diesel/#2 diesel. Can these be used in standard oil lamps?

Can anyone clearify what lamps/lanterns are safe to use indoors and which are not?


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## silverbackMP (Dec 4, 2005)

I'm planning on building a new pole barn shop/living area/storage area/canning parlor at my parents (36x60). I'm planning on 1 maybe 2 1000lb propane tank in the ground. I'm going to pipe for gas lights throughout the facility. You can still buy gas light wall sconces and chandeliers in either natural gas or propane.

Sun "tube" lights should take care of daytime needs.


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## texican (Oct 4, 2003)

Cabin Fever said:


> No, more correctly, I'm referring to "Fresh cat oil".


Sorry, never dealt with the fresh stuff... 

It was what I thought it was... 

Can you imagine how aromatic that fragrance would be??? uggghhhh...


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## Dixielee (Dec 5, 2003)

Ciffer said:


> Wow, lots of great info from everyone!!!
> 
> On the issue of fuel, several people mentioned using kerosene/#1 diesel/#2 diesel. Can these be used in standard oil lamps?
> 
> Can anyone clearify what lamps/lanterns are safe to use indoors and which are not?


I have used diesel in kerosene lamps but they smoke more and you have to clean the chimney more often. It can be used but I much prefer kerosene. They of course are designed to be used indoors. You can also make a wire cage to surround your lamp and heat food or liquids there. It doesn't get hot enough to cook, but definitely hot enough to warm through soups, coffee, etc.


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## Trisha in WA (Sep 28, 2005)

texican said:


> There ya go!
> Have you got wild bees in the area? There are some ways of tracking wild bees back to their hives... I'd be robbing some wild hives, when my sugar stocks disappeared... and, take the wax too!


I have yet to see any, but I didn't get a real good opportunity to go scouting last summer (we moved here last May). I will be doing more of that this coming summer.


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## Cabin Fever (May 10, 2002)

Ciffer said:


> ...Can anyone clearify what lamps/lanterns are safe to use indoors and which are not?


IMHO, all liquid fuel and gas fuel lamps/lanterns are safe to use indoors if you follow some common sense precautions. Do not place the lamp on flimsy or small surfaces - or near the edge of any table or counter - where it can be easily knocked over. Don't carry the lamp around the house while it is lit. Don't leave the lighted lamp in an unoccupied room. Don't use the lamp when uncontrollable children are around. Always have a fire extinguisher nearby.

In terms of indoor air pollution, any lamp/lantern that uses a mantle burns cleaner.


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## ET1 SS (Oct 22, 2005)

People have used kerosene cook stoves for decades in their homes, safely.

Propane heaters have been used indoors for decades. 

Lots of people have propane / LPG stove top burners in their homes, safely.

Some fuels load the indoor atmosphere with humidity. One pound of propane adds four pounds of water into the air. 

It can be a problem when a home is real tight [the build-up of CO2 and moisture].

We have been fighting mold growing on our walls and ceiling due to too much moisture. This year I installed an exhaust fan that draws moist crawlspace air outside.

All summer long we keep our windows open, but once it gets cool outside and we shut-up the house, then the moisture builds. By December our humidity builds to being pretty bad.

We had a local engineering firm [that focuses on home ventilation] come out and they did a study on our home. Our woodstove drafts good, but it's draft only draws out about 400 to 500 CFM, we need more like 1500 to 2000 CFM. Their answer was a ductwork and 'heat-recovery' system that would have cost us $8,000.

Instead I cut a 20inch and 20inch hole in a back wall, boxed it in with scrap plywood. Fit inside a 20-inch window fan, and built a 20-inch diameter duct down into our crawlspace all from scrap plywood, with feed-bags wrapping it to seal leaks. It cost us $100.

Now we are getting 2,000 CFM of exhaust.

If you build a tight house, and then go to putting CO2 or moisture in that house, it will build up a problem in time. If you house is drafty, then you should never have any issues. But if it is fairly tight, then you will eventually need to consider exhausting.


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## derm (Aug 6, 2009)

While I have no knowledge of oil lanterns, I have researched and purchased LED lanterns and I use these: 
http://www.amazon.com/Rayovac-SE3DL...4XIS/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1295278966&sr=8-1

300 lumens on high, 150 hours continuous runtime on low, 3D cell batts and only about 6 inches tall with a hook on top and bottom to hang them.


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## cnichols (Jan 5, 2010)

For anyone interested in the Olive Oil Lamps, here's a link to the Mother Earth News article about them. I figure most folks have this stuff around the house to begin with. If not, it wouldn't be too expensive to get it and have on hand, just in case 

http://www.motherearthnews.com/Do-It-Yourself/Make-Olive-Oil-Lamp.aspx


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## vallyfarm (Oct 24, 2006)

As a fuel source, my neibor is planning on using PAINT THINNER for his oil lamps. He can get it free from work, and says there are mor BTU's per ounce so it will work better than kero or oil. Am I wrong to think he is looking for a fireball to blow up in his house?eep: Mike


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## ||Downhome|| (Jan 12, 2009)

paint thinner is not anymore volatile then kerosene,at least if its Mineral Spirits.

now if you get into hot solvents little different.


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