# dehorning an adult goat



## lonelyfarmgirl

I would like to hear experiences on dehorning your adult goats, and what the heck do you do when you've disbudded a kid several times, then called in the vet to do it, out of frustration and pity for the kid, and the horns still grow?


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## Bricheze

i've started disbudding them when they are 5-10 days old, and never had a problem. However we got 4 boer goats not to long ago, that were to be shown and sold for meat, and they all had fully grown horns. What we did, was cut them off at the base, and then burn them to kill the tissue and stop the horns from growing. They haven't grown back.

How are you dehorning/disbudding them? Burning them off seems to work for me.


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## jBlaze

pictures would help.

scurs can be very different than horns.

Natural horns have an opening into the sinus cavity and can become infected easily. I have seen this opening on kids that were dis-budded a bit late. (had one a few years ago the vet did, she came home with what looked like gauze pad super-glued over the hole?)


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## stormaq

Oh!!! Please what ever you do, don't dehorn an adult goat!!! 
When I was a teen I had a herd of registered dairy goats as one of my FFA & 4H projects, there was a couple of does, that I had bought, that had horns. I couldn't show them with horns. So my ag teacher, had me bring them to school. And he would saw their horns off. IT WAS HORRIBLE!!!!!! There was blood squirting everywhere (I do mean squirting like 5 or 6 feet!) In between pulses, we could see her brain! We finally packed cotton in the hole where her horn used to be. The bleeding finally stopped, after what seemed like forever. She survived, but she never was the same later. If the horns must come off of one of your adult goats, Please have the vet do it, where he can give her replacement blood & do an IV. 
Good Luck


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## HappyFarmer

Not full grown adults but...A couple of years ago we had two 8-(9?) month olds de-horned by the vet. No issues whatsoever. Later I asked him why my goats aren't showing symptoms like the horror pain stories I've always read about, and he said it was his technique. He injects something into the base of the horn. These girls came home with a cap of sorts wrapped around their head & neck. A couple weeks afterwards we just removed it (actually it was falling off) and they were fine. If it wasn't so expensive, I'd have my bucks dehorned. 

I'm not pushing de-horning adults, just saying that if the vet knows what he's doing it isn't a traumatic experience. We disbud 85% of our kids at a week old so they won't have to go through some of the issues everyone talks about. I agree, de-horning is best left up to a vet.
HF


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## Bricheze

stormaq said:


> Oh!!! Please what ever you do, don't dehorn an adult goat!!!
> When I was a teen I had a herd of registered dairy goats as one of my FFA & 4H projects, there was a couple of does, that I had bought, that had horns. I couldn't show them with horns. So my ag teacher, had me bring them to school. And he would saw their horns off. IT WAS HORRIBLE!!!!!! There was blood squirting everywhere (I do mean squirting like 5 or 6 feet!) In between pulses, we could see her brain! We finally packed cotton in the hole where her horn used to be. The bleeding finally stopped, after what seemed like forever. She survived, but she never was the same later. If the horns must come off of one of your adult goats, Please have the vet do it, where he can give her replacement blood & do an IV.
> Good Luck


I'm in the FFA too and I did this with 4 adult boer goats (like I said) you did it way wrong! You have to go about at least 1 or 2 inches and NOT take it off the entire thing (base and all), because there is a lot more blood, and exposure of the brain which can get infected and kill a goat.

If you know what your doing you can dehorn an adult goat by yourself. If not get a vet, but this was obviously an occasion where you just did it wrong, if you do it correctly this never happens (but yes there is still a lot of blood)


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## chamoisee

Bricheze said:


> However we got 4 boer goats not to long ago, that were to be shown and sold for meat, and they all had fully grown horns. What we did, was cut them off at the base, and then burn them to kill the tissue and stop the horns from growing. They haven't grown back.


Yep, me too. It works.


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## chamoisee

stormaq said:


> Oh!!! Please what ever you do, don't dehorn an adult goat!!!
> When I was a teen I had a herd of registered dairy goats as one of my FFA & 4H projects, there was a couple of does, that I had bought, that had horns. I couldn't show them with horns. So my ag teacher, had me bring them to school. And he would saw their horns off. IT WAS HORRIBLE!!!!!! There was blood squirting everywhere (I do mean squirting like 5 or 6 feet!) In between pulses, we could see her brain! We finally packed cotton in the hole where her horn used to be. The bleeding finally stopped, after what seemed like forever. She survived, but she never was the same later. If the horns must come off of one of your adult goats, Please have the vet do it, where he can give her replacement blood & do an IV.
> Good Luck


What did he use to cut the horns off?


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## Feathers-N-Fur

The vet school by me does a dehorning day once a year, in Feb. You can get an appointment and get it done free that day. I took 2 goats this year. They let me watch. They gave two types of meds. One knocked the goat out, the other was a local block around the base of the horn. They used a wire type of saw, I don't remember what it was called, it was basically a serrated wire, to cut the horn off. Then they cauterized it. I bought pain meds for a couple bucks, and they really didn't suffer too much, but it is soooooo much better to dehorn them as kids. I don't think I would ever try this myself.


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## chamoisee

Yeah, I don't like the wire saws. They're a little too brutal for my taste, especially the last few strokes where the horn is dangling by a piece of skin and a little bit of horn, while the blood is squirting everywhere. 

What I used to use was a Saws-All. Actually, my ex used it. I held the goat and cauterized ASAP, as soon as the saw was out of the way. I never saw brains, but then, I didn't take it right down to the skull either, left maybe 1/4"-1/2".


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## Bricheze

It would be nice to have vet students do it for free if they knocked them out and everything. But since I don't have that option here I just do it myself, more cost effective.


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## MARYDVM

What you see after the horn is removed is the inside of the frontal sinus - not the brain. If you actually cut into the goat's skull and exposed the brain it would die.


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## mpete

I have 2 adult boer does that I dehorned. I used the banding method. Neither doe appeared to have any discomfort. When the horns fell off, there was a little blood, but it was no worse than a simple scatch.


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## billooo2

I used bands once on 2 does. One has small scurs and the other has not had any scurs. I have read that it is best to do this when there are not a lot of flies around. I needed to clip the hair around the base of the horn. And get the bands (I used 2 bands/horn). If you can, get them down into the "hair line." My goats never seemed to experience any discomfort.


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## Bricheze

The bands didn't work for me, but how big were your horns, mine were probably 1 and half inches to 2 iches across the base.


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## Idahoe

I have a nubian doeling three months old who was never disbudded.

At what length will banding the horns work? She just has little inch long pointy things, I assume they are way too small.

My plan is to band her later on when the weather starts cooling off. 

Anyone have pointers as to the size of the horn, length or circumference that is best?


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## Feathers-N-Fur

if they are only a inch long, they may still be small enough to be done with an iron. If you know someone with experience disbudding, ask them to help you.


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## jBlaze

Feathers-N-Fur said:


> if they are only a inch long, they may still be small enough to be done with an iron. If you know someone with experience disbudding, ask them to help you.


best option IMO.
Disbudding at 1 inch is very possible, but only by someone with enough experience.


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## jBlaze

Keep in mind that NOT all vets are capable of successfully disbudding a kid, much less de-horning an adult goat.

Bought a goat once that had bands on her horns. I would advise NEVER using bands. It was HORRID and a long process. She was miserable for months, took about a year for her to really get over the experience. No, it was not infected either, just a LOT of pain. 

My parents had their first goats, adults, de-horned. They suffered, one eventually died from the complications.

I highly recommend dis-budding kids unless you know the goat will have a good forever home as a horned animal.


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## chamoisee

I had really bad experiences with bands. I would far rather saw off the horns than use the bands, much less stress. Messier though.


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## mpete

My does were almost 2 when I dehorned them. I used the standard castrating bands you find at TSC.


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## BoldViolet

jBlaze said:


> Natural horns have an opening into the sinus cavity and can become infected easily. I have seen this opening on kids that were dis-budded a bit late. (had one a few years ago the vet did, she came home with what looked like gauze pad super-glued over the hole?)




.....Having learned something new, I shared this with my fiancee.



"WAIT!!! They can BREATHE through their horns?!"

me: "Well, no, because they're not open to the outside... I guess they've got a hollow in them that opens to the sinuses."

"No no no.... if we just CUT THE TIP, we could have UNDERWATER GOATS!!!     "

me: "....................................................... :: facepalm :: "


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## mpete

rotfl


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## Starsmom

I've had my done by the vets when the scurs grew back after disbudding. I find it mostly happens with the bucks. He has done it various ways, depending on the goat, horn size and position of the scurs. I personally like the electric saw he used that actually cut and cauterized at the same time. He just used the saw and cut the horn out. He then used gauze, duct tape and super glue and put the bandage around the head. He looked like he had a major tooth ache. After a bit the bandage fell off and he was fine. He did need the extra padding up there for cushion when the head butt. Yes, they will still do that and it HURTS them badly and they turn around and do it again.

My vet also used the wire method on one goat. I wasn't crazy about that method, the horns grew back as if never removed.

He also used the cattle horn cutter and pinched them off and then cauterized. That worked well also.


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## cathleenc

our vet is planning on knocking our buckling out and then using the wire saw/cauterize method to deal with the bad scur. Vet asked me to wait a month to make sure that only the scur was growing - good advice - the buckling knocked the disbudding cap off the horn bud and clearly the entire horn is coming back as well as the scur. I sure hope those are all the horn surprises that show up!


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## hoofinitnorth

We've used the wire saw on adult goats with bad scurs here. We had great success and only minor bleeding. The second time we did the boys, we followed up with the disbudding iron. It was tough holding them still, even with banamine on board (wish I had had lidocaine too but I didn't). After it was said and done, it looks like no regrowth. One bad, bad, bad scur on my 5.5-year-old buck is gone completely and there is a smooth pink skin now after about 6 weeks. The other one hasn't shed yet so I am not sure if it's going to stay gone yet. The other boy had about 3" scurs the last time and his seem to be done growing too but haven't shed off yet either.

When someone asks about horns or scurs, I always point to these 100-pound stinkers, show them how unruly they can be to handle at that weight, and do my best to impress upon them the important of early, complete disbudding.


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## lonelyfarmgirl

to answer the first question, yes I burned the horns off the doelings at 5 days old. everything was done right. copper ring, so on and so forth. they never should have grown back.
we had the vet out, he chopped them off, and burned them again. it better work. he changed me an outrageous 2$ a minute for his time.

I dont feel comfy sawing off adult horns. I was leaning towards banding over this winter, but either way, opening the sinus cavity scares me a bit. I dont want infection in there. I wonder how long banding would take, and would the sinus cavity close as the band pushes through? If not how long until full closure?


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## pookshollow

> I wonder how long banding would take, and would the sinus cavity close as the band pushes through? If not how long until full closure?


With banding, the sinus cavity is never open. It depends on the goat how long it takes. I had one that still had one horn when I sold her - I put four or five bands on that stinker! Others I've had the horns come off within two to three months. Just don't do it in fly season.

I had one goat dehorned with a wire saw. Had to have the vet do it again and she still grew one big scur. She eventually knocked it off and it didn't grow back after that. I will _never_ again do it that way - I'll disbud, band or leave them on.


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## susanne

i'm wondering how do you all keep your goats still while cuting horns off????
i just had a doe kid done at the vet office. i had to leave the room and when i cme back, there was blood every where and i thought they misunderstood and instead getting rid of the horns, they butchered her. 
i think it might have been less stressful if i could have done it myself.


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## DixyDoodle

> i just had a doe kid done at the vet office. i had to leave the room and when i cme back, there was blood every where and i thought they misunderstood and instead getting rid of the horns, they butchered her.
> i think it might have been less stressful if i could have done it myself.


Interesting......I always have the vet do my goats. He knocks them right out with anesthetic, so they just wake up hornless and maybe with a headache.  They don't seem any worse for wear and by the time we get home, they are right back into action as usual.

A great way to go if you don't want to disbud on your own, since the vet can concentrate on disbudding instead of holding down a struggling, screaming goat, and better for me, because I don't have to get a case of the creepies or being afraid I will do any harm. And no, I have never lost a goat due to the meds. My vet has done lots of goats this way. I consider it well worth the $35 he charges for it. 

I would suggest asking goat people around your area though, to be sure you get a vet that knows how to disbud and has some practical experience already.


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## hoofinitnorth

We put them in the stanchion (if it's not a buck that won't fit!) and push their head down to keep it still by using a leverage rope that can be released by simply letting go. My friend is better at it than I! I always seem to have to halter them, put them up against a solid wall, and have a helper put their knee into the goat's side to steady them as I burn. It is NO fun, even with a 100-pound Nigerian buck.


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## Starsmom

I say it is easiest to disbud a buckling as young as possible. That way if they do grow back, you have time to re-do the disbud and not have to dehorn later. With bucklings, I have found you nearly always get scurs if you use the same size iron as with the doelings. Bucklings have a bigger horn base and if you use the larger iron (or buck attachment), you get better results.


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## hoofinitnorth

The figure-8 burn method is essential for covering the entire tear-drop shape of a buck's horn bud base.


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## moonspinner

Yes, the double ring method on ND bucks does cut down on scurring. I have also found that by burning several Xs over the top of the bud - for does and bucks alike - it has significantly reduced secondary growth. Still, it is my experience that the number one factor in eliminating scurring is to get to the kids early. Within days on bucks. Does generally have a much wider window of opportunity.


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## lonelyfarmgirl

what is this figure 8 method of which you speak?


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## hoofinitnorth

You burn a figure-8 shape to cover the entire tear-drop shape of the horn bud. In my case, I burn a succession of three interlocking rings on the bigger boys or ones with bigger horns. I do it on does as necessary too. I also scoop out a lot of the burned bud to be sure it's all gone.

This year I was much more aggressive with the iron and if I have any scurs at all, they are itty bitty on a couple of kids (one doe has a little tiny regrowth in the middle of each bud).

One doeling had a normal burn and great healing. AFTER the caps came off at 12 weeks of age, one side started to fester. I saw her rubbing her head and thought she either scraped it open with a dirty hoof or got a splinter in it. It pussed and made a mess. I treated her head twice daily with scrubs, drying, topical dressings, and even a 10-day course of Pen G. The doe never had a fever with it. The darned thing looked like it finally healed, but I told her new owners about it before she went to her new home and 3 days later I got an email that it was again festering. Grrrr. The owner called two vets and one said just keep it dry and clean like I had done and the other said that sometimes the disbudding iron will damage a small piece of bone and it will act like it's infected when it really isn't, until the bone "works itself out". I thought, well I could buy that if it's a chip, but there isn't a chip that I could find and that sounds a little weird. Either way, the instructions were to do the same as I was doing and just let it work itself out.


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## lonelyfarmgirl

could anyone possibly post a photo of this?


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## Vicki McGaugh TX Nubians

http://dairygoatinfo.com/index.php/topic,8217.0.html


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## Cupbernbelle

jBlaze said:


> Keep in mind that NOT all vets are capable of successfully disbudding a kid, much less de-horning an adult goat.
> 
> Bought a goat once that had bands on her horns. I would advise NEVER using bands. It was HORRID and a long process. She was miserable for months, took about a year for her to really get over the experience. No, it was not infected either, just a LOT of pain.
> 
> My parents had their first goats, adults, de-horned. They suffered, one eventually died from the complications.
> 
> I highly recommend dis-budding kids unless you know the goat will have a good forever home as a horned animal.


What where the complications


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## Danaus29

Cupbernbelle said:


> What where the complications


Poster you quoted hasn't logged in for over 7 years. Don't expect an answer.


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## Alice In TX/MO

I can answer. Goats do not tolerate pain well. Anesthesia is tricky. 
It isn't worth the trouble.


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