# 100+ acres for survival partners



## rickfrosty (Jun 19, 2008)

Hope it's ok to post in 2 places, because I am copying this from where I posted under "Real Estate"
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Hello, I proposed this subject before I recently bought this land & it turned into a poo-throwing contest, so I hate to open myself up again, but I will need some sort of partners on this farm-retreat project ?
This is not presently any kind of a farm. Most 'farms', especially in areas w/large amounts of snow, are right by a road for plowing convenience. 
That is not very defensible, and I am of the opinion that this 100+ acres is very, very defensible (if it came to that of course).
There is 2000 ft. of frontage on a little 2-lane blacktop yes, but it is all a fairly steep heavily wooded bank (w/nice drive going up diagonally), so that nothing can be seen from the road. A sturdy gate would be installed at bottom of driveway. To assault the project by coming up this bank under fire would be nearly impossible. Especially w/the addition of some barbed/razor wire .
State DOT levelled 40,000 yards of gravel fill @ top of drive - because they needed a place to put that, not because the land needed filling.
This created a pretty big place to go ahead & get started w/improvements, and it is sitting on a massive bank of natural gravel under harvestable loam too - gravel is valuable for such things as improving the 'skidder' trail up the hill to the more level, farmable 50 to 70 acres up at the top of the slope, or for building the earth-sheltered (or semi-underground) homes & buildings for participants.
If we decided it was a good thing, then power can be brought straight up over the bank to this existing 'laydown' area for an affordable amount. 
I see this as a good place to construct a garage/workshop/barn that could possibly be a temporary residence for 1st myself, then others who come here (w/addition of one of the super-cheap travel trailers people are selling now) . I was a carpenter/builder most of my life too, so will be able to design & construct these things (also septics, wells, roads, etc. w/the very functional excavator I have).
Grid power beyond this area is probably not going to happen & that is fine w/me, but if we had it at a large workshop perhaps we could get a little Amish & fabricate some furniture or other craftiness to sell aided by grid power.
Up above where the actual homes, gardens & fields/pastures would be would be served by whatever sort of alternate power trips your trigger.
I have cut & saved ice for refrigeration before & have a slick idea for that - that is normally one of the bigger power consumers.
The land is surrounded by other big parcels of forest land - mine has had the softwood cut off it mostly, but is growing up in young hardwood, so there is firewood for life, enough to sell a little later as it gets more mature & fuels get really costly - also will provide maple syrup. When the canopy of mature trees is cut, then the smaller trees grow like crazy from more exposure to the sun.
Well, I'll try to speed this up a little. I know I am a rambler.
The land has a lot of rocks on the surface, a LOT, and some are pretty big, but that is what the excavator is good for. Either roll then into spoke-like fences from central home/farmyard area, or dig a hole next to one which is too big and roll it in. Also build the south-facing very thick solar walls of houses .
One of the 1st things in the process will be to get lots of cheap goats & pigs to help begin to clear the brush & saplings which take over land after a major cutting has happened (about 5 yrs ago), also plant many apple trees on the sloping part not suitable for growing fields . Want to make a LOT of cider for the winters - have a press & some large containers. For the 1st years there are tons of apple trees all around this part of the country to scavenge apples from.
That reminds me of the dense raspberry & blackberries on the land. Turkeys, partridge, deer, moose - maybe a bear now & then ? I am not aware that we have the feral pigs much up here yet though ? 
Rich 'river-bottom' fields of hay right across the little highway from the land, and a river (that my ancestors settled on) w/nice fat brown trout . (An anomaly that I could explain another time - the B. trout that is).
Speaking of trout, I have a trout stream on the land where I presently live (about 1/2 hr. from new land) to harvest lots of little fish for a fish pond/aquaponic operation . It's name is Hatchery Brook - think it's good water ?
I do not know how to set up the governance of this project - closest I've come so far is to put it under an LLC, or perhaps a cooperative ?
It came time to jump & buy the land or risk losing it, so I had to take out an equity loan on my house for part of the purchase money. I was w/out debt before, but do have a plan to pay off loan w/in 3 yrs. (asap !).
I would be open to someone who wanted to buy a large share in this project, so I could pay off the loan ?
Also an old dumptruck will be necessary as well as prolly a farm tractor w/a loader to load the gravel & haul it to make the road up to usable land - my excavator ('ex') can spread the gravel. Farm tractor usefull later of course, and dumptruck could be sold ?
So you may be saying "well this land has a lot of faults ?", but these are the things which made it unlikely that somebody would want the land for typical use of subdividing lots and made it so I could afford to snap up a piece big enough to support enough people to defend it & themselves & what they work for ?
Yes, water should not be a problem, there is a stream on one edge of land, but 95% sure that I can dig a well near the top & gravity feed it to houses/barns below . Look at a map of ME - water everywhere - plenty of rain. Gardens almost don't need irrigation.
Oh, and heavenly summer days are looong (sort of like Alaska ?) so growing food is not a problem in shorter season.
I'm going to wrap this up for now, and I know it is already long, so please don't just skim it & begin to fire back your negative assumptions ??
Thank you for your consideration. 
__________________


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## naturelover (Jun 6, 2006)

> Speaking of trout, I have a trout stream on the land where I presently live (about 1/2 hr. from new land) *to harvest lots of little fish for a fish pond/aquaponic operation *. *It's name is Hatchery Brook* - think it's good water ?


Is that legal where you are? Not trying to be negative, but I know that in some places harvesting lots of little fish from out of a hatchery creek for use in your own personal aquaponics operation is a criminal offense, so you might want to check out the legalities of that in your location.

.


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## TnAndy (Sep 15, 2005)

Sounds like it will take a few decades of bone numbing labor and a few hundred grand to turn it into any kind of self sufficient place. I've spent 30 years and about that much money on mine, so far......and it's just getting to the point where I can see the light at the end of the tunnel.

Fortunately, you've got some rock to work with.....ahahahahaaaa


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## rickfrosty (Jun 19, 2008)

naturelover said:


> Is that legal where you are? Not trying to be negative, but I know that in some places harvesting lots of little fish from out of a hatchery creek for use in your own personal aquaponics operation is a criminal offense, so you might want to check out the legalities of that in your location.
> 
> .


There we go - 1st negative assumption. Prolly won't get to populating an aquaponics program until the regulations have pretty much gone by-by . 
And it has nothing to do w/any existing hatchery it's just the name of my brook.
And I know of people poaching hundreds of little fish for breakfast (not me), out of the brook - so I'd have a better use than that ?
I am a ME Master Guide, so I do know the regs, thank you very much.


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## rickfrosty (Jun 19, 2008)

TnAndy said:


> Sounds like it will take a few decades of bone numbing labor and a few hundred grand to turn it into any kind of self sufficient place. I've spent 30 years and about that much money on mine, so far......and it's just getting to the point where I can see the light at the end of the tunnel.
> 
> Fortunately, you've got some rock to work with.....ahahahahaaaa


It's been fun right ??
I like designing & building stuff. And if the $ can be spent as fast as possible that will be good, as it will become worthless. no ?
But I do not see any hundreds of thousands.


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## nostawmama (Dec 29, 2011)

Sounds like quite a place. A couple questions that I hope I didn't read over the answers in op.

1. How many people total are you looking to have in the co-op?
2. Are there jobs available in the area for before SHTF?
3. Are you interested in families with children or would you prefer singles/couples?
4. Are you a crazy mass-murderer looking for victims? jk


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## TnAndy (Sep 15, 2005)

rickfrosty said:


> But I do not see any hundreds of thousands.


ah, but you will....there are none so blind as those just starting out..........ahahahaaaaaaaaa


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## lonelyfarmgirl (Feb 6, 2005)

naturelover wasn't being negative, she was pointing out a potential problem. It IS important to point out the potential problems. That is how you work out the bugs and get past the molehill mountains.

What I see lacking in your idea is to what benefit would become the people that would move there? You mentioned possibly buying a portion, but for how much? You have a great idea, but It sounds like you need a wife and her family, rather than an RV full of strangers. Only a spouse or a very close sibling usually shares ideas and goals THAT close/similar. 

It seems you might end up in a situation where you hate who you invited, especially if you don't know them REALLY well. Then what? Say "hey you suck, you can leave now." NOPE, your stuck! Nobody will work as hard as you think they should.
I know, cause I've been in those sort of situations, although nothing as extreme as this. 

You are looking in the right place, just beware. Not everyone here is all peaches and cream, or get up at dawn, work till the sun goes down and share everything.
We considered Maine at one point, but it's just so dang far!

Andy, your place is beautiful.


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## lonelyfarmgirl (Feb 6, 2005)

rickfrosty said:


> It's been fun right ??
> I like designing & building stuff. And if the $ can be spent as fast as possible that will be good, as it will become worthless. no ?
> But I do not see any hundreds of thousands.


You aren't looking hard enough! Look really close in the photo with the fence. See all those steel fence posts back behind the wood fence? They look new. Try 4-6$ EACH. He probably has dozens, maybe hundreds, plus fence insulators, garden hose, welded fence, nails for the wood, the wood itself, the red paint, the tools to install it all, the materials and labor for the house.

How about the labor to move that rock? Rental of a backhoe, $75 an hour. Buy your own? $20,000 Dump truck load or three of gravel? I'm sure the drive didn't come that way. That was one picture. 

What do you think that entry gate cost? How about the flowering bush? $10-20 as a baby out of the catalog or from the local greenhouse.

He posted three pictures that I am sure comprise a VERY small section of his place. The money adds up fast. Don't be fooled, or you will be broke faster than you can blink. You can think. 'well, I'll scavenge, I'll buy used, there's Craigslist!' Yes, that's right. Think how much it might cost to do what you want, then triple it on a good day. Been there, done that, and we are VERY frugal people.


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## bassmaster17327 (Apr 6, 2011)

I would be interetsed. Can the land be sub divided? I thnk that to get anyone to invest they would need something from it. For example: Blank amount of money and you own 5 acres to build your house and you own that land but then have more acreage that is used by everyone. Basically I don't think anyone would want to invest all their future and have no legal rights to anything


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## Becka03 (Mar 29, 2009)

rickfrosty said:


> There we go - 1st negative assumption. Prolly won't get to populating an aquaponics program until the regulations have pretty much gone by-by .
> And it has nothing to do w/any existing hatchery it's just the name of my brook.
> And I know of people poaching hundreds of little fish for breakfast (not me), out of the brook - so I'd have a better use than that ?
> I am a ME Master Guide, so I do know the regs, thank you very much.


naturelover stated they weren't being rude-
i think your response was totally uncalled for!


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## Marshloft (Mar 24, 2008)

Becka03 said:


> naturelover stated they weren't being rude-
> i think your response was totally uncalled for!


 Well,,, he did mention that last time it ended, or started, into a poo throwing contest.
So I assume,,, he got a little defensive too fast? Nothin like washin ones hands and startin all over.
gh


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## naturelover (Jun 6, 2006)

rickfrosty said:


> There we go - 1st negative assumption. Prolly won't get to populating an aquaponics program *until the regulations have pretty much gone by-by* .


Mr. Frosty, your entire premise, including the bolded statement above, is based on negative assumptions. The reason you bought the property and went into debt for it is because of a negative assumption. You're convinced that you and the people who would choose to live under your autocratic rule are going to be living the lives of desperadoes defending an isolated property with your lives against all comers in a land without laws and regulations. Now that may or may not happen but it's still a negative assumption.

Something that most of us here who are familiar with your posts have learned about you is that you will not entertain any other people's thoughts or suggestions that don't fit in with what you've already determined is going to be your way or the highway. I don't know why you even bother looking for partners if you can't be willing to discuss things without you getting your hackles up and automatically assuming that all you're getting is negative feedback.

.


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## Terri in WV (May 10, 2002)

TnAndy, you have an absolutely gorgeous, tranquil looking place!


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

> automatically assuming that all you're getting is negative feedback.


To some, any comment that doesn't agree 100% is "negative" :shrug:


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## TnAndy (Sep 15, 2005)

Terri in WV said:


> TnAndy, you have an absolutely gorgeous, tranquil looking place!


Here ya go Terri......more homestead 'porn'.....ahahahaaa.
One of our garden spots ( fence is to discourage deer ), and the chick "chalet" on the backside of it.


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## TnAndy (Sep 15, 2005)

lonelyfarmgirl said:


> You aren't looking hard enough! Look really close in the photo with the fence. See all those steel fence posts back behind the wood fence? They look new. Try 4-6$ EACH. He probably has dozens, maybe hundreds, plus fence insulators, garden hose, welded fence, nails for the wood, the wood itself, the red paint, the tools to install it all, the materials and labor for the house.


Preach it gal ! I can tell you've been there.

Those T posts (4.50ea) are for the cattle panels (16bucks/ea) we grow out climbing crops like beans/tomatoes on. 

Story on the panels: Lowes had them for 23 bucks ea. Tractor Supply put them on sale for 17.99, (buck off everyday price) so I made Lowes price match + 10%.....manager was steamed, but I told him I was doing him a favor, as NOBODY was gonna buy them for 23 bucks and he'd be stuck with all that inventory.....ahahahaaaa. Yeah, I'm CHEAP as all get out !












lonelyfarmgirl said:


> How about the labor to move that rock? Rental of a backhoe, $75 an hour. Buy your own? $20,000 Dump truck load or three of gravel? I'm sure the drive didn't come that way. That was one picture.


We ( wife and I ) actually moved all the rock ourselves. (tractor and now days, small bulldozer ) The retainer wall on that pond was almost a whole summer of work...the picture doesn't do the size of it justice at all.

Gravel...holy moly......one time many years ( and truck loads ) ago, I added up about 15k in gravel around here. $425/load for a tandem axle, 18 ton load now days.



lonelyfarmgirl said:


> What do you think that entry gate cost? How about the flowering bush? $10-20 as a baby out of the catalog or from the local greenhouse.


Actually, the gate wasn't too bad. I bought some square tubing and a piece of flat bar for the curved section, and did the welding myself. Inside the rock ( very locally obtained rock....ahahahaaa) are two 8" I beams ( local scrap yard steel ) sunk in couple yards of concrete each.....back when you could get concrete for 30 bucks/yard. It's over 100 today. So maybe I have 750 bucks in the gate. The electric openers were another 2k though....plus running 1500' of heavy gauge wire underground down there from the house to run them. The green stuff is my wife's department.....she is a whiz at propagation and reproduction. Give her a clipping or a seed, and she is off to the races !



lonelyfarmgirl said:


> He posted three pictures that I am sure comprise a VERY small section of his place. The money adds up fast. Don't be fooled, or you will be broke faster than you can blink. You can think. 'well, I'll scavenge, I'll buy used, there's Craigslist!' Yes, that's right. Think how much it might cost to do what you want, then triple it on a good day. Been there, done that, and we are VERY frugal people.


We're frugal too. We nearly NEVER pay for any outside labor. All the structures on our place, the wood came FROM the place....of course, it took a 13k sawmill ( Woodmizer ) and 20k tractor ( to skid out logs and handle wood ), but I nearly never buy wood. But as you point out.....it takes roofing metal, hardware, paint ( used to pay $40/5gallon of barn red....now it's nearly 70 bucks )

Rick, 

I wasn't being negative, if anything, I'm WAY under estimating what it takes to turn 100 raw acres into something sustainable ( we started with 75, and added an adjoining 27 later on ). We started in 1982, and I figure another 20 years or so, and THE NEXT guy won't have to do too much.....ahahahahaaaa

Learn to take some tips from folks that have, as loneyfarmgirl says, "been there and done it". They aren't trying to be negative either.....merely trying to keep you from walking into this blind. And really, good luck with your project.


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## sss3 (Jul 15, 2007)

Not targeting anyone at all. Some people feel that if they think something then it's a fact. Used to work with someone like that. About drove us all crazy.


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## sherry in Maine (Nov 22, 2007)

Yes, I dont think TnAndy was being negative.

Last night, when the thread was opened up again by a 'noob' I re read all the replies and really was surprised by all of the negativity, hostility.
\
Yes, I think RF would really like a partner/wife who has the same dream and ability, drive to work with him. 
So, now he has some other ways that he hopes it might work, since he hasn't yet found someone to partner with. He has a lot of credentials/knowledge about regulations for the area he is in
He is open to suggestions; and yes, he is on the defensive because of the original posts' negative replies. 
He's been around that area for a long time, his whole life, I think . . . . he probably has a good idea on what is needed, what will work .
Yes, sometimes our wishes and dreams need someone else to point out where you might go wrong.
He is like you and I--plenty of flaws, a big dream, lots of energy/high hopes and not a mass murderer or even a serial murderer . . . . 
the last few replies are no where near as negative as the ones posted in May (what was up with that? I still dont get it-you can be helpful without being hateful)


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## ovsfarm (Jan 14, 2003)

Rickfrosty, you have a history of coming here and expecting everyone to rubberstamp your ideas with rousing enthusiasm, and I assume, for some to join you. Sherry, he has rejected more than one honest bit of constructive criticism, whining about negativity when reality does not suit his dream.

The bottom line is that Mr. Frosty is confusing negativity with reality. He is the child with his fingers stuck in his ears to prevent anyone from disparaging his dreams with the truth. But blocking out the facts, or calling those who would tell you the truth a bunch of negative meanies does not change reality.

The fact is that fish and game laws affect everyone. The pp was just trying to give RF a heads up to keep himself out of legal trouble (what a mean person!). The pp who reported the disgusting price of T-posts was not trying to be negative to RF, he was trying to help him adjust his budget and projections so that he would have a more realistic picture of what was ahead of him (how cruel!)

There is a tremendous amount of knowledge here, which most will share freely. To come here, ask for input, and then reject it and whine because it doesn't fit your preconceived plan is the height of rudeness and foolishness.


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## AngieM2 (May 10, 2002)

TnAndy - what a wonderful place you've built up. 

and rick has to learn to see what others is telling him, to make sure he doesn't mess his dream up, without getting all huffy and calling them negative - so far, no one has been negative to rick, but they have been realistic. If you can't take this, you really will not be able to keep a group together.


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## Our Little Farm (Apr 26, 2010)

I think you can easily spend that kind of money but you don't have to. I know that I built a cabin from standing trees and put in a long road up the side of a mountain for under $25,000. It depends on what you want. If you want instant homestead, yes it will cost you more $$, if you are prepared to do the hard work, make your own posts etc, and have the time to do so, it will be cheaper.

I imagine as the last thread got such negative replies that Rick is already on the defense, and I can understand why. 

Good luck RF. I hope you get someone interested in this venture.


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## MO_cows (Aug 14, 2010)

Rick, I would encourage you to really look at and think about the people you already know and already in your life. Siblings, cousins, long time friends, etc. Maybe some of them have a similar dream/desire and you just don't know it. You already know them, the good and the bad, there is already a bond between you, etc. As opposed to soliciting strangers.


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## lonelyfarmgirl (Feb 6, 2005)

I think rick has some great ideas and I think his knowledge of the area is key, but the whole point of asking for advice is so others can help you see what you are missing. You have to take the good with the bad. 

I KNOW what it costs to farm, build, etc... We also do almost everything ourselves. DH built our house and once we get moved, we will build another. I think he hired in the concrete work and the framers only. Heck I can recall days in the recent past when we walked out of fleet farm with hundreds of dollars of only fence materials, thats electric fence materials. And good luck finding used cattle panels. Ha! Plus, maybe you do find 90% of what you need used. You still have to put up the gas money to go get it.

All I can really say to you Rick directly, is open your eyes and don't take it personal. No body here is trying to burst your bubble, rather most people are trying to point out the pitfalls so you DON'T fail.
If you are so busy trying to avoid what you don't want to hear, you might just miss the person you've been looking for all this time.


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## kvr28 (Feb 15, 2009)

I have the weirdest feeling of deja vu


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## rickfrosty (Jun 19, 2008)

lonelyfarmgirl said:


> You aren't looking hard enough! Look really close in the photo with the fence. See all those steel fence posts back behind the wood fence? They look new. Try 4-6$ EACH. He probably has dozens, maybe hundreds, plus fence insulators, garden hose, welded fence, nails for the wood, the wood itself, the red paint, the tools to install it all, the materials and labor for the house.
> 
> *Let me answer in your text - there won't be any fancy flowery gate - this is a survivalist project ! If you read the OP I own an excavator and there are tens of thousands of yards of gravel on site.
> Yes, a lot of fencing will be needed, but if I have any partners to go along to pick it up it is possible to find all kinds of fencing 2nd hand until natural fencing can be matured. At 1st we'll use alot of electric fence. I have 2 of those now, old car batteries & small solar panels work beautifully - this is NOT expensive.
> ...


Please see response in bold w/in her text.


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## rickfrosty (Jun 19, 2008)

kvr28 said:


> I have the weirdest feeling of deja vu


It's called perseverance.


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## rickfrosty (Jun 19, 2008)

MO_cows said:


> Rick, I would encourage you to really look at and think about the people you already know and already in your life. Siblings, cousins, long time friends, etc. Maybe some of them have a similar dream/desire and you just don't know it. You already know them, the good and the bad, there is already a bond between you, etc. As opposed to soliciting strangers.


Have been trying to educate my brothers for years - have made some progress, but cannot work with them on this, they are well-established in other places.


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## rickfrosty (Jun 19, 2008)

Our Little Farm said:


> I think you can easily spend that kind of money but you don't have to. I know that I built a cabin from standing trees and put in a long road up the side of a mountain for under $25,000. It depends on what you want. If you want instant homestead, yes it will cost you more $$, if you are prepared to do the hard work, make your own posts etc, and have the time to do so, it will be cheaper.
> 
> I imagine as the last thread got such negative replies that Rick is already on the defense, and I can understand why.
> 
> Good luck RF. I hope you get someone interested in this venture.


Thank you.


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## rickfrosty (Jun 19, 2008)

ovsfarm said:


> Rickfrosty, you have a history of coming here and expecting everyone to rubberstamp your ideas with rousing enthusiasm, and I assume, for some to join you. Sherry, he has rejected more than one honest bit of constructive criticism, whining about negativity when reality does not suit his dream.
> 
> The bottom line is that Mr. Frosty is confusing negativity with reality. He is the child with his fingers stuck in his ears to prevent anyone from disparaging his dreams with the truth. But blocking out the facts, or calling those who would tell you the truth a bunch of negative meanies does not change reality.
> 
> ...


Niiice ! Thank you. Just as an example - why assume someone is so freaking ignorant as not to know game laws in their state ?
have owned a ME Guide License since 18 yrs old.


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## unregistered168043 (Sep 9, 2011)

Hey man, I say go for it. You can do whatever you set your mind to. I don't think you will have to spend anything close to 2 hundred K. It will take $ and some work. T-posts are expensive but you can also cut your own posts off your property for nothing. Lots of other examples of this.

Just my opinion but I did find Naturlover's comments to be thinly disguised negativity. Bringing up the legalities of catching fish and putting them in your pond seems pretty silly to me. I also dont think RF's choice to prepare himself makes him a 'negative person' as NL suggested. I dont know the history but just calling it like I see it.


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## TnAndy (Sep 15, 2005)

rickfrosty said:


> Let me answer ...there won't be any fancy flowery gate - this is a survivalist project !


Yeah....EVERYBODY knows you can't be a survivalist without "some barbed/razor wire"......ahahahaaaaaaa....

Keep on trucking, Ricky. When you actually manage to grow some food on your gravel pile, post the pics.


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## Terri (May 10, 2002)

RickFrosty, it sounds lovely.

Something I learned from my family, all 35 of them, and they all have opinions? Listen politely and then do everything EXACTLY as you think best!

People give advice out of concern, even when they should not worry at all. It appears to be human nature!


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## Cajunprepper (Sep 2, 2012)

I have visited this page for awhile before I joined. Not trying to be negative, but are you the same poster who was looking for volunteers (free labor) at one time for this piece of land.


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## naturelover (Jun 6, 2006)

Darntootin said:


> Just my opinion but I did find Naturlover's comments to be thinly disguised negativity. *Bringing up the legalities of catching fish and putting them in your pond seems pretty silly to me*.


Well, is it legal where _YOU _are? If some other people reading this topic see that RF plans to do that and then they think to themselves "oh, that sounds like a great idea, why wait for SHTF, I think I'll do the same thing right now on my property too!" ..... will it be legal where _they_ are? Will they know that it's something they should check on the legalities of in their own states?

Maybe it's okay in some places to harvest large quantities of wild fingerlings and install them in your personal aquaponics system, but in some other places it is illegal poaching and the people who do that risk not only a huge fine if they get caught, they risk having their expensive aquaponics system dismantled and of being monitored forever after for future infractions.

Now you and RF might think it's silly and negative to bring up the legalities around fish and wildlife regulations but you aren't the only people reading here. Some other people reading here might not know about those regulations or even think of them. I don't think it hurts for newbies who see new ideas being suggested on the board to be made aware of what might or might not get them into trouble and to know what regulations they need to check out in their own locations.

.


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## rickfrosty (Jun 19, 2008)

> Sorry, I got called away, but this was in response to TnAndy
> Rick,
> 
> I wasn't being negative, if anything, I'm WAY under estimating what it takes to turn 100 raw acres into something sustainable ( we started with 75, and added an adjoining 27 later on ). We started in 1982, and I figure another 20 years or so, and THE NEXT guy won't have to do too much.....ahahahahaaaa
> ...


I don't think I said you were being negative and if you read my post, not all of the 100 acres I have is going to be farm, only 50 to 70 acres is level enough . The rest slopes & will be good for apple trees and to make it darned hard for zombies to get up to where the houses & barns will be.
What grinds my gut is people who skim the post looking for something to carp about - they don't absorb the post & it shows in their comments .
People today seem to have lost the old wisdom of 'giving the benefit of the doubt'.
I intended to make an example of the type of comments I have no use for when I refuted the one warning me about harvesting little fish for an aquaculture project (long in the future) - for goodness sake, I am a native here and not a city person - how would I NOT know that ?
I'm like - well, here is my vision, if you are interested enough to actually ABSORB what I am saying & have some sort of experience relative to it, or better yet might be interested in my project yourself, then fire away, but if you have only lived in a city & will stay there, and just have nothing better to do than try to carve up someone who is ready to actually stick their neck out and begin to DO some of the things we dream about - - well, it is hard for me not to try to correct your comments & I don't have the time or patience.


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

> *What grinds my gut* is people who skim the post looking for something to carp about - they don't absorb the post & it shows in their comments


I think what "grinds your gut" is anyone who doesn't pat you on the back, and want to join right in. :shrug:


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## lonelyfarmgirl (Feb 6, 2005)

Amen Bearfoot!


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## AngieM2 (May 10, 2002)

rickfrosty said:


> I don't think I said you were being negative and if you read my post, not all of the 100 acres I have is going to be farm, only 50 to 70 acres is level enough . The rest slopes & will be good for apple trees and to make it darned hard for zombies to get up to where the houses & barns will be.


50 or 70 acres, is still a large chunk of land. TnAndy says he started with 75 acres - do you see how close in size the actual person WHO HAS DONE IT, and your dream are in size? You should be paying close attention to what he has said, and asking him questions instead of being arrogant and insulting.



> What grinds my gut is people who skim the post looking for something to carp about - they don't absorb the post & it shows in their comments .


What 'grinds my gut' is someone repeating the same post with slight variation (such as now actually purchasing the land), with still the same closed mind that will not, or cannot accept the issues brought forward and acknowledge them handled already, or thank the person for bringing the to the forefront. At this rate, you'll be able to make all the mistakes you could avoid by LISTENING instead of being insulted that someone tried to point out the pitfalls and guide you around them.



> People today seem to have lost the old wisdom of 'giving the benefit of the doubt'.


Not really - I was giving you the benefit of the doubt that you're mind had opened to those that are trying to help you get to your dream with less stupid mistakes. Or at least the manners to appreciate that you have enough respect and courtesy to this board/forum to listen and use what you deem useful. No one has tried to be mean or negative, you're doing a good job on your own for that.



> I intended to make an example of the type of comments I have no use for when I refuted the one warning me about harvesting little fish for an aquaculture project (long in the future) - for goodness sake, I am a native here and not a city person - how would I NOT know that ?


No one here knows that you know anything. Also, you are not the only one reading this thread. What may be okay for you, and your area, may not be for another area. And we have no idea if a native there knows everything and every rule or not. 



> I'm like - well, here is my vision, if you are interested enough to actually ABSORB what I am saying & have some sort of experience relative to it, or better yet might be interested in my project yourself, then fire away, but if you have only lived in a city & will stay there, and just have nothing better to do than try to carve up someone who is ready to actually stick their neck out and begin to DO some of the things we dream about -


And this last paragraph - we ABSORB it and many have done more than you have for making raw land into a farm or home, but YOU DON'T WANT TO LISTEN and take advice. 



> - well, it is hard for me not to try to correct your comments & I don't have the time or patience.


And it is hard for me to sit here and watch you knock down and imagine insult and negativity when you just don't want to listen to the advice being given so you won't make a series of mistakes. I don't have the patience to put up with this.

You have two choices -
1. Listen and be polite and have an exchange of civil information.
2. I shut this thread down here, and delete it everytime you try it again.

You chose.


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## rickfrosty (Jun 19, 2008)

TnAndy said:


> Yeah....EVERYBODY knows you can't be a survivalist without "some barbed/razor wire"......ahahahaaaaaaa....
> 
> Keep on trucking, Ricky. When you actually manage to grow some food on your gravel pile, post the pics.


I have a 1000 ft garden now & grow all kinds of food - been learning that for 5 yrs., have chickens & rabbits.
I only bought the land not a couple of months ago, how could I have grown any food.
Now calling my land a "gravel pile", was that humor or was it not negativity ?
Before I haul my 'ex' down to new land I have levelled 3 garden terraces here that are about 5000 sq. ft. .


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## ovsfarm (Jan 14, 2003)

rickfrosty said:


> What grinds my gut is people who skim the post looking for something to carp about - they don't absorb the post & it shows in their comments .
> People today seem to have lost the old wisdom of 'giving the benefit of the doubt'.
> I intended to make an example of the type of comments I have no use for when I refuted the one warning me about harvesting little fish for an aquaculture project (long in the future) - for goodness sake, I am a native here and not a city person - how would I NOT know that ?


RF, I read in the Farm and Dairy headlines today that a farmer in PA, who was a native and had lived there all his life, got fined $137,000 (IIRC) for disturbing a wetland area. I'm sure he thought that as a native he knew what he could do. Apparently the PTB in his area differed in thought. I'll bet now he wishes some kind person had given him a heads up/reminder not to mess around with the wildlife/wetland laws.

According to the DEP, Bitz was attempting to create a pond on his 200-acre property. The DEP was alerted of the wetland disturbance by the Marshall Township engineer.

DEP issued Bitz two compliance orders in July 2010 after inspections of the Marshall Township property revealed Bitz had excavated portions of a stream channel of an unnamed tributary to Big Sewickley Creek, which is classified as a trout-stocked fishery.

Bitz also disturbed significant portions of earth in the surrounding wetlands without an erosion and sediment control plan.

Pride and arrogance go before a fall. At the rate you are going, your fall may well be hard, indeed. And if you get your tenants, you may take others down with you.

The fact is that we have seen and heard it all before. Someone wants to start a compound/commune/cooperative (rose by any other name). They come here under the guise of asking for comments but make it obvious by their responses that all they really wanted was our approval and undying admiration, not to mention a few of our experienced folks to come and "donate" a whole lot of time and sweat to a project that they would have very little long term stake in.

No thanks. Good luck with your project. Hope you find like minded people to be involved.


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## simi-steading (Sep 27, 2012)

I've been reading this thread, and the other you had about this, and here's my take away....

You have a dream... a cool one at that, as far as having a nice piece of land you want to develop and use to be self supportive... Just as many of us here do too...

You're asking people to invest not only in a dream, but basically a business of sorts... You talked about the show Shark Tank.... do you really think if you walked on that show, and told them what you've told us, any of them would even consider investing in what you've presented?

Now this is what I've taken away... First off, I'm picturing a gungho camo wearing gun slinging militia type person wanting to build a hardened compound... You start talking very heavily about protection and fortifying before you even get into what the land is, how you want to really develop it, and what your final goal is, other than making it a zombie proof place to stay.

I also see a person hoping other like minded people (nothing wrong with that part) will come in with stacks of cash and or the tools to help build your dream on your land, with nothing in return, other than a place to stay and keep the zombies out. Maybe a partnership, but what if they end up not liking the way it's going and want out? Then what? They lose it all? You need to address these kinds of things now.. not when the time comes... 

If you want people to get on board with your dream, you should have a web site or something with a well thought out business plan, and reasons they will want to join in on your dream. A person like me would want to see what is expected in return for all that work, and investment..

You say you don't know how to form a co-op or LLP or LLC or similar... well if you want anyone to believe in this project, you'd have all that figured out before presenting it. It's hard to see faith in something of this scale if the person presenting it hasn't worked out all the details, and says they don't know how to...


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## Old Vet (Oct 15, 2006)

rickfrosty said:


> Hope it's ok to post in 2 places, because I am copying this from where I posted under "Real Estate"
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> Hello, I proposed this subject before I recently bought this land & it turned into a poo-throwing contest, so I hate to open myself up again, but I will need some sort of partners on this farm-retreat project ?
> ...


This is a good idea as long as things go his way. How would you want to wait until all regulations have gone away and not have a plain for something like this? If things don't work out for him then nobody needs to worry. He will have a few cohorts with nothing to do but wait until it happens.


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## simi-steading (Sep 27, 2012)

BTW, personally, I'd never become involved in a small community on private land... I've spent too many times with groups of people like that (camping, trips, weekend rides) and I've found it to always become a real hassle, and everyone else trying to flex their minds, and everyone just upset with each other... I'd have to know people VERY well, before I'd even consider it... never with strangers... 

I got an open mind about things, but one thing that never fails that open mind, is how well people end up not getting along in a situation like you are talking about..


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## AngieM2 (May 10, 2002)

Okay - let's use this thread and go in a slightly different angle to the objective.

1. There is about 100 acres, 50 -75 going to be used for homes and growing food, trees on the other 25 as a perimeter.

a. Rick - what growing experience do you have in that climate? Is there any planned growing on that 50-75 acres?

b. You have mentioned in your replies that you are a guide since 18 - please explain what knowledge that gives you of that area?

After we get this figured out -

Then.. 

2. Friends here - if you had land described as above - and wanting it to be sustaining - forget the fortress aspect for now.


Can anyone answer the above questions.
Let's try to ignore the hiss and spitting we've all been involved in and ignore any grumpy answers, and accent HOW.

So, 
If I had that much land - oh wow. I have friends that could use a place to get away from the city. I'd have to talk with them, consult, see what we mutually can do together to figure out an agreement. Probably for first - it would be a 6 month or a year arrangement - and if my land - probably at least a little house for me and one for that person. Basic but nice. 

Then figure out what strengths we have together.

This is almost like a marriage, or corporate partnership.

And it would have to build a trust.

Anyone else with fresh to this thread postings?


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## rickfrosty (Jun 19, 2008)

AngieM2 said:


> 50 or 70 acres, is still a large chunk of land. TnAndy says he started with 75 acres - do you see how close in size the actual person WHO HAS DONE IT, and your dream are in size? You should be paying close attention to what he has said, and asking him questions instead of being arrogant and insulting.*Well, Angie it didn't seem that I was being arrogant & insulting, I was just saying my place will be a much more bare-bones place - his is beautiful, but that's not the main thing I'm going to strive for AND I think you are making some assumptions here assuming my tone instead of listening - am I wrong?
> Also, the difference between a post where I was considering buying this land & this one where I actually did buy it seem to me to be considerably different.
> I am willing to listen & benefit from critisizm if it has something to do w/what I am proposing, AND if it is from someone who actually has read & absorbed the entire post, not as some have already responded.*
> 
> ...


*Angie, this is a bit of a nightmare for me - you have come into this w/your mind completely closed against me ! All I'm doing is pointing out (& I've hardly written anything !?) when someone's comments just don't have much to do w/what I'm going to try to do ? So you want me not to try to refute those comments from people who really obviously haven't read the OP ?
But that leaves them out there on the internet as if they were relevent ?
I really think I have been pretty civil, but you have a prejudice against me so you don't see it. And who was it who was trying to explain some time ago that this is not a really 'PC" kind of a forum ?
I am seriously a survivalist (prepper is too bland), and willing to work on this project for the rest of my life. I'm willing to leave this home, this mini-farm that I have created & love because it is not defensible enough .
I have been trying to have an exchange of civil information, but you don't want me to say anything at all !! I sort of need this forum boss.*


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## rickfrosty (Jun 19, 2008)

AngieM2 said:


> Okay - let's use this thread and go in a slightly different angle to the objective.
> 
> 1. There is about 100 acres, 50 -75 going to be used for homes and growing food, trees on the other 25 as a perimeter.*Not exactly, but I'll accept this - there is firewood for life & maple syrup too.*
> 
> ...


Please see bolds in text (I had to write something here .)


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## rickfrosty (Jun 19, 2008)

Well, I am missing 'Workaholics' on the tube - as much fun as this is, will check y'all tomorrow.


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## TnAndy (Sep 15, 2005)

rickfrosty said:


> Now calling my land a "gravel pile", was that humor or was it not negativity ?


Hey Ricky.....you're the one that said you had all that gravel. 

I didn't turn "negative" on ya until you commented on my "fancy flowery gate" after I took the time to show you some of the things you could do with all the rocks on your place.

At this point, I won't comment further on your project, as it appears to be a waste of effort.


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## naturelover (Jun 6, 2006)

rickfrosty said:


> ......I am seriously a survivalist (prepper is too bland), and willing to work on this project for the rest of my life. I'm willing to leave this home, this mini-farm that I have created & love because it is not defensible enough .
> 
> .... I sort of need this forum boss.


I don't know if you need this forum or not, but have you also tried other more hard-core survivalist sites with your proposition?

Have you tried this place yet? International Preppers Network &bull; View forum - National Networks It's a really good place to try networking and for getting leads on other sites where you can connect up with hard-core survivalists who are more like minded. If you look through there and here (see the map) American Preppers Network &bull; Portal you will find that there are many other individual people as well as groups with similar ideals and plans that are all looking to meet up with each other, start projects and work together cohesively with survivalism and defense of their communities as their objective.

It's worth taking a look at if you haven't tried there yet. Through that site I have already connected up with and met several other individuals and prepper groups right here in my neck of the woods. Some are more hard core than others but there are lots of people across the board that don't have a place of their own and are looking for a place to join, and others who do have a place of their own and are looking for other people to join them.

.


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## Maverick_mg (Mar 11, 2010)

I've often thought about building a family compound. Heres some of my thoughts. 

Everyone has about 5 acres to build a modest house with their own well, garden, shed/barn etc. That way when someone needs a break from the group they have their own space. 

Build a larger common house that is basically set up with a large enough dining room for gatherings/meetings, a commercial kitchen for canning and food processing. I would also have it inspected so people in the group could produce value added foods to sell for income for themselves or the group. The common house would have a basement, prolly the only one, to be used for a root cellar and tornado shelter. It would also be where the offices, sewing room and craft room would be set up. 

There would be one large barn for livestock like dairy cows and goats and horses/oxen that would be used along side tractors or take the place of tractors. The dairy would be off the large barn so the milk won't have to be transported across the farm. This is where I would make butter and cheese. 
DH would have his smithy in the large barn as well. 

There would be greenhouses and high tunnels for season extension and one large garden, prolly 5 acres, in vegetable production. We would plant an orchard with apple trees and other fruit. There would also be an herb garden that would house culinary and medicinal herbs. Other acreage would be set aside for use growing grain crops for feed and to make flour from and hay. 

The next buildings would be a smoke house for curing meats and a cider house/sugar shack/honey house. This is where all the seasonal equipment would be housed since none of those harvests run into each other, if planed correctly, so they shouldn't require their own buildings. And a woodshed and saw mill. If land could be found with a stream on it that could be dammed, then it would be a hydro powered mill. We would also have to dig a pond for storage of water and to harvest ice from in the winter if an ice house was ever called for. 

Chores would be rotated on a weekly bases so no one is stuck doing the same thing all the time. Household shares of milk, meat, veggies, grain, butter and cheese would be distributed on a weekly bases from the common house. But anyone one who needed extra of anything would have access to get it. There would also be a farm stand built close to the main road, so surplus veggies and such could be sold to the public. 

And, Just because I think it would be neat, I would build a one room school house for homeschooling where the kiddos can play and learn. It's where the computers, books and other media would be kept as well as the toys. 

My parents and grandparents would love for us to build this one day if we could find the land and the money. 

I hope this helps to give you some ideas. Good luck.


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## Murramarang (Dec 18, 2011)

One of the common traits of survivalists/preppers that I notice is that they are fiercely independent - something that I admire. Ricks plan to me is a great one - but the group of folks he needs is not other survivalists/preppers, but the group that are between them (us) and the average joe/joette - that group of folks who are concerned for their future if the worse ever happens, and yet don't have the skills or leadership ability to make 'it happen'. That is what i think Rick is really offering here.

However, to win folks over to the plan will require a lot of marketing and people management skills...and as that is my field of expertise I would add that I think you need to work on this aspect Rick to get folks involved.

People are always scared of things that are new...they need to be won over. Its a tough call to do - and it needs to be done in a positive , 'whats really in it for me' sort of way. That often means not responding/commenting/refuting/correcting etc...even when you are just bursting at the seams to lash out at people who don't get your idea. It will mean biting your tongue and just saying 'thanks' even for stupid comments/suggestions. You have to make folds feel like they are respected, admired, wanted.....

Anywho...maybe I am off path here....

Good luck fellow Mainer!


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## rickfrosty (Jun 19, 2008)

bassmaster17327 said:


> I would be interetsed. Can the land be sub divided? I thnk that to get anyone to invest they would need something from it. For example: Blank amount of money and you own 5 acres to build your house and you own that land but then have more acreage that is used by everyone. Basically I don't think anyone would want to invest all their future and have no legal rights to anything


Thank you for your response. Sorry I have not looked at this for a few days as didn't want to spoil holiday mood, LOL.
When thinking of dividing (subdividing) land you run into strict regulations controlling that, even in this township w/no zoning & small regulation.
I'm not crazy about dividing the land, but may have to consider it .
Leaning more towards putting the land & project into an LLC and selling a percentage of that entire thing ?
Would you like to PM me & tell me about yourself (yourselves) ? What you think may happen, what you want to try to do ?


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## rickfrosty (Jun 19, 2008)

Murramarang said:


> One of the common traits of survivalists/preppers that I notice is that they are fiercely independent - something that I admire. Ricks plan to me is a great one - but the group of folks he needs is not other survivalists/preppers, but the group that are between them (us) and the average joe/joette - that group of folks who are concerned for their future if the worse ever happens, and yet don't have the skills or leadership ability to make 'it happen'. That is what i think Rick is really offering here.
> 
> However, to win folks over to the plan will require a lot of marketing and people management skills...and as that is my field of expertise I would add that I think you need to work on this aspect Rick to get folks involved.
> 
> ...


Ha, great response thank you. 
As far as the physical aspects of this project go, I do know pretty much what must be done, but under 'plays well w/others' I did not get a high mark, LOL. On the other hand I have made close friends who trust me & whom I trust .
If that sort of relationship can be developed w/people willing to commit to my project then that will be worth more than paper agreements when the rule of law has fallen.
* "What's in it for me" *will be a safer place to live & work during the coming depression/breakdown (or whatever you see happening) .
One can commit to some sort of ownership if we see eye to eye, or perhaps just commit work for shelter & sustenance during the dark times and then move on. I think perhaps there will be tons of fine places for the picking after the possible die-off ?


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## rickfrosty (Jun 19, 2008)

Maverick_mg said:


> I've often thought about building a family compound. Heres some of my thoughts.
> 
> Everyone has about 5 acres to build a modest house with their own well, garden, shed/barn etc. That way when someone needs a break from the group they have their own space.
> *Let me see if I can respond w/in your text. I like above idea except even in a comparatively unregulated place as township where my land is there are strict regulations on subdividing land - big expensive pain in the butt ! However, I have considered a solution that could give nearly the same result.
> ...


Oh, sorry, must have something written here too.


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## rickfrosty (Jun 19, 2008)

naturelover said:


> I don't know if you need this forum or not, but have you also tried other more hard-core survivalist sites with your proposition?
> 
> Have you tried this place yet? International Preppers Network &bull; View forum - National Networks It's a really good place to try networking and for getting leads on other sites where you can connect up with hard-core survivalists who are more like minded. If you look through there and here (see the map) American Preppers Network &bull; Portal you will find that there are many other individual people as well as groups with similar ideals and plans that are all looking to meet up with each other, start projects and work together cohesively with survivalism and defense of their communities as their objective.
> 
> ...


 *Thank you.*


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## rickfrosty (Jun 19, 2008)

TnAndy said:


> Hey Ricky.....you're the one that said you had all that gravel.
> 
> I didn't turn "negative" on ya until you commented on my "fancy flowery gate" after I took the time to show you some of the things you could do with all the rocks on your place.
> 
> At this point, I won't comment further on your project, as it appears to be a waste of effort.


I also said somewhere that your place looked beautiful, I didn't intend any offense. 
Just trying to point out that my project will have to at least initially be pretty streamlined & bare bones. Maybe the aesthetics could come in later if we survived ?


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## rickfrosty (Jun 19, 2008)

simi-steading said:


> BTW, personally, I'd never become involved in a small community on private land... I've spent too many times with groups of people like that (camping, trips, weekend rides) and I've found it to always become a real hassle, and everyone else trying to flex their minds, and everyone just upset with each other... I'd have to know people VERY well, before I'd even consider it... never with strangers...
> 
> I got an open mind about things, but one thing that never fails that open mind, is how well people end up not getting along in a situation like you are talking about..


Yes, I hear you - - a long time ago I and another fellow went halves on the downpayment to buy a wonderfull old decommissioned Synagogue in Portland (ME) to turn into communal (how else to call it ?) housing for a group we were part of.
I may have been the only one w/much construction experience.
So all these people got in this building which did need some work & started doing whatever they wanted, ripping into this & that & all going in different directions - Oy Vey ! (so to speak) .
Anyway, I soon bailed, & my partner bought my half.
Interestingly last I knew the land (w/ synagogue long demolished) was a very, very valuable parking lot in the middle of ME's biggest 'city' (67,000, ha, ha).


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## rickfrosty (Jun 19, 2008)

Old Vet said:


> This is a good idea as long as things go his way. How would you want to wait until all regulations have gone away and not have a plain for something like this? If things don't work out for him then nobody needs to worry. He will have a few cohorts with nothing to do but wait until it happens.


Thank you - what would be YOUR plan ?


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## rickfrosty (Jun 19, 2008)

simi-steading said:


> I've been reading this thread, and the other you had about this, and here's my take away....
> 
> You have a dream... a cool one at that, as far as having a nice piece of land you want to develop and use to be self supportive... Just as many of us here do too...
> 
> ...


*I did research how to form and manage an LLC, and the tax implications, but exsqueeze me, I am not perfect. It was time to buy the land w/out further ado. It is easy to put it under an LLC at any point.
I have a few ideas as to how to manage this project & how the interests of partners can be protected, but I am also looking for people w/great vision who may have a better idea - I am willing to share directing this thing, not looking to be king.
I have also been slashed by people when I try to lay out anything too precise here ?*


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## rickfrosty (Jun 19, 2008)

ovsfarm said:


> RF, I read in the Farm and Dairy headlines today that a farmer in PA, who was a native and had lived there all his life, got fined $137,000 (IIRC) for disturbing a wetland area. I'm sure he thought that as a native he knew what he could do. Apparently the PTB in his area differed in thought. I'll bet now he wishes some kind person had given him a heads up/reminder not to mess around with the wildlife/wetland laws.
> 
> According to the DEP, Bitz was attempting to create a pond on his 200-acre property. The DEP was alerted of the wetland disturbance by the Marshall Township engineer.
> 
> ...


Thanks for your comments, but hadn't intended to re-purpose any little trouties 'till quite a ways down the road when the rule of law may have fallen - don't believe my little trout have been fingerprinted or have any 'chips' implanted for later identification either, LOL.
I do know that the bureaucratic 'powers that be' are indeed very powerfull, so thanks for that reminder.


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## rickfrosty (Jun 19, 2008)

Terri said:


> RickFrosty, it sounds lovely.
> 
> Something I learned from my family, all 35 of them, and they all have opinions? Listen politely and then do everything EXACTLY as you think best!
> 
> People give advice out of concern, even when they should not worry at all. It appears to be human nature!


Ha, ha, excellent comment !


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## rickfrosty (Jun 19, 2008)

TnAndy said:


> Yeah....EVERYBODY knows you can't be a survivalist without "some barbed/razor wire"......ahahahaaaaaaa....
> 
> Keep on trucking, Ricky. When you actually manage to grow some food on your gravel pile, post the pics.


Sorry, sorry, sorry, didn't mean to belittle your beautiful place at all !!


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## rickfrosty (Jun 19, 2008)

Cajunprepper said:


> I have visited this page for awhile before I joined. Not trying to be negative, but are you the same poster who was looking for volunteers (free labor) at one time for this piece of land.


Nah, looking for all these positive comments & people w/good (relevant) ideas, thank you very much.


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## rickfrosty (Jun 19, 2008)

naturelover said:


> Well, is it legal where _YOU _are? If some other people reading this topic see that RF plans to do that and then they think to themselves "oh, that sounds like a great idea, why wait for SHTF, I think I'll do the same thing right now on my property too!" ..... will it be legal where _they_ are? Will they know that it's something they should check on the legalities of in their own states?
> 
> Maybe it's okay in some places to harvest large quantities of wild fingerlings and install them in your personal aquaponics system, but in some other places it is illegal poaching and the people who do that risk not only a huge fine if they get caught, they risk having their expensive aquaponics system dismantled and of being monitored forever after for future infractions.
> 
> ...


There you go - thank you.


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## rickfrosty (Jun 19, 2008)

nostawmama said:


> Sounds like quite a place. A couple questions that I hope I didn't read over the answers in op.
> 
> 1. How many people total are you looking to have in the co-op?
> 2. Are there jobs available in the area for before SHTF?
> ...


This is a response I wanted to answer - - sorry, but I didn't look at this thread for a few days so's not to spoil the holiday mood (or spoil my aim at traditional hillbilly family shoot-out after turkey feast !).
1. I don't know how many ? See what works out ? Enough land to support enough people to defend it is what I was shooting for.
2. Yes, there are jobs . Not saying they're abundant. 
Land is about 15 mi. from excellent town w/state college branch, farmer's market, several ag. stores and up this way where I live now about 24 mi. from land is a tiny resortish village where I can set up construction/painting, brush-cutting, etc., etc. work, as I am known as having construction experience here. Also a biggish ski mtn. for winter employment - I may get a winter job there myself. 
I am associated w/a RE Agcy. which has a huge vacation rental managment side & they pay fairly well for cleaning ladies.
3. Yes, if parents see eye to eye w/me, then well-mannered children might be okay. I like children & wish I could have had some, but many today are incredibly spoiled - am I wrong ?
As to #4, well, if I was such as you mention I wouldn't tell you would I ?
What about you ? Just kidding, but I too have known psycopaths & try to steer clear of them !


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## rickfrosty (Jun 19, 2008)

lonelyfarmgirl said:


> naturelover wasn't being negative, she was pointing out a potential problem. It IS important to point out the potential problems. That is how you work out the bugs and get past the molehill mountains.
> 
> What I see lacking in your idea is to what benefit would become the people that would move there? *The benefit is a safer place to live & work while society crashes around us (maybe?), and to explain my ideas much more would have made a pretty long post just way too long, no ?*You mentioned possibly buying a portion, but for how much? You have a great idea, but It sounds like you need a wife and her family, rather than an RV full of strangers. Only a spouse or a very close sibling usually shares ideas and goals THAT close/similar. *I DO need a wife, or at least a female lover/partner. If she has good family then so much the better !*
> 
> ...


Thank you for taking the time to comment.


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## coolrunnin (Aug 28, 2010)

You have a good idea with this project, and breaking it out into a LLC sounds like it might be the best way to get funding and partners involved protecting all involved.

Have you looked into American preppers they actually breakout into seperate states as well, so maybe there would be people in your area interested.

We here are using more of a mutual assistance model. I have family close by and neighbors some of who are interested in self sustaining life style. Rather than a one compound idea.


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## rickfrosty (Jun 19, 2008)

Becka03 said:


> naturelover stated they weren't being rude-
> i think your response was totally uncalled for!


People often state that they aren't being rude, or may not intend to be rude - - - -
I like it when people, in their dealings with others give them 'the benefit of the doubt', but that seems rare in these fast & violent times. Perhaps in taking offense to NL's post I myself was making an assumption ?


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## rickfrosty (Jun 19, 2008)

TnAndy said:


> Here ya go Terri......more homestead 'porn'.....ahahahaaa.
> One of our garden spots ( fence is to discourage deer ), and the chick "chalet" on the backside of it.


Wow !


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## lonelyfarmgirl (Feb 6, 2005)

"It seems you might end up in a situation where you hate who you invited, especially if you don't know them REALLY well. Then what? Say "*hey you suck, you can leave now." This will be how I dismiss slackers and pain-in-the-butt people for sure ! *NOPE, your stuck! Nobody will work as hard as you think they should.
I know, cause I've been in those sort of situations, although nothing as extreme as this. "


Now, here is the problem with this. You would need to form some kind of a contract signed and notorized before ever allowing someone on 'your' land. 
If I brought my family and everything I owned, quit my former life and (hypothetically of course) moved to your place and then you decided you didn't like me for whatever reason, and then you approached me one day and told me that, not only would I tell you where to stick it, but then you just might have a lawsuit on your hands. Nobody puts my family out because they don't like how hard I work, or my overly barky dog, or my housekeeping skills. 

Be VERY careful..VERY.


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## rickfrosty (Jun 19, 2008)

lonelyfarmgirl said:


> "It seems you might end up in a situation where you hate who you invited, especially if you don't know them REALLY well. Then what? Say "*hey you suck, you can leave now." This will be how I dismiss slackers and pain-in-the-butt people for sure ! *NOPE, your stuck! Nobody will work as hard as you think they should.
> I know, cause I've been in those sort of situations, although nothing as extreme as this. "
> 
> 
> ...


Of course I was kidding, but you are right . Nevertheless partners will be necessary, so ???


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## lonelyfarmgirl (Feb 6, 2005)

You were? Fooled me.


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## rickfrosty (Jun 19, 2008)

lonelyfarmgirl said:


> You were? Fooled me.


Not my intention to fool you, but do tease or make a little joke now & then.
I realise that in some places (maybe most ?) the term survivalist has a less-than-ideal connotation, but I do have a sense of humor & am soft & fuzzy on the inside.


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