# for thoughs of you who Hunt with Dogs,,,



## KSALguy (Feb 14, 2006)

i was thinking on the older breeds that had been developed as hunting dogs of various sorts, namely the Irish Wolf Hound amung others that i am drawing a blank on at the monent, (if you can remimber some of the older breeds please share) i LOVE reading about the old Celtic culture and how the big Brindle dogs played such a common role in their culture, hunting boar, wolf and other large and small game. between the Hound and the Horse it was a very intreaging culture in my heratage, 

ANYWAY, are they still used as a hunting hound? if so what can you tell me about them, if not why? and any other old breeds you can think of, are they used and how?


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## Pops2 (Jan 27, 2003)

there are alot of things to say about your post. first the original irish wolfhound cane in both rough & smooth coats and was more like the modern dane (which is a completely different animal from the original boar hunter).
the modern irish was recreated in the 1860s by a british army captain named Graham.
the National Open Field Coursing Association (NOFCA) has events where the participants get together and competitively course their sighthound on live wild quarry (mostly jack rabbits). every registered sighthound breed & rhodesian ridgebacks are involved except italian greys. when whippets, and the big heavy dogs are run catches rarely occur.
in terms of real hunting, the irish of 50+ years ago contributed to some of the staghound lines and exceptional individuals that get used as kill dogs on coyote may still do so from time to time, but not on a regular basis. in australia however they are used much more frequently and then often crossed w/ somehting else to produce pig hunting dogs.
FTR there is one breeder of russian wolfhound (borzoi) that regularly courses (& catches) jacks & coyotes,and some borzoi has been added to some lines of stags. however wolfers running coldblood greys and stags have better catch rates.
do you have questions on other specific breeds? i will gladly point you in the right direction.


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## KSALguy (Feb 14, 2006)

i knew the modern breed wasnt the same as the old breed i was just curious as to HOW differint it was, if you crossd a IWH with say a Mastiff would that get them closer to what they were? 

back in kansas alot of people used Greyhounds to hunt the coyotes, some used a greyhound mix with longer hair but no body knew what the mix was other than a differint sort of grey hound.


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## JasoninMN (Feb 24, 2006)

Another breed you might find interesting is the Scottish deer hound. They share a similar history to the Irish wolfhound. They are also still used more frequently for hunting.

And here is a Scottish deer hound link showing some of their hunting abilities. 
http://www.boardogs.com/Boardogs_Deerhounds1.htm


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## MariaAZ (Jun 5, 2007)

KSALguy said:


> back in kansas alot of people used Greyhounds to hunt the coyotes, some used a greyhound mix with longer hair but no body knew what the mix was other than a differint sort of grey hound.


Sounds like a lurcher. As I understand, lurchers are crosses between greyhounds and other breeds with the goal of combining the keen hunting instincts and speed of the greyhound with the desireable attributes of the other breed. Wikipedia says the cross usually involves working breeds or terriers.


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## KSALguy (Feb 14, 2006)

has anyone seen or had a IWH/Mastiff cross?


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## Reptyle (Jul 28, 2005)

On a slightly related, but still different note, I do wish we could get some DNA samples of some of the dogs of the older days, when they were still more for function than show...I'd love to see what real IWH looked like...I'd also like to see the terrier used to make most of the bull and terriers of today.


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## Pops2 (Jan 27, 2003)

KSAL
those are staghounds the foundation lines for most go back to greyXscottish deerhound, but some also include IW and RW (borzoi) and a few have some lurcher in there. the smooth dog might be stags or they might be coldblood greys (track & show dogs are called hotbloods most aren't suited for real hunting).
if you would like a really good breakdown of the dogs and their success in the states Dutch Salmon in in NM wrote an excellent book you can find it on his site High Lonesome Books or cheaper at amazon and such. he also keeps and breeds an excellent line of sighthounds that is mostly saluki & grey but does have a touch of stag/deer in it. FWIW the pups are cheap but shipping is not and there is always a waiting list.
if you go to ozziedoggers, you can probably find pics of that exact cross pretty easy.
i forgot, the OP, the IW has too much dane in it and is bred too heavy for wolfing (coyote coursing) by itself. OTH this gives it a fair nose and rugged constitution and so it & it's crosses would make descent hogdogs if we didn't already have good breeds for that.


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## gracie88 (May 29, 2007)

> has anyone seen or had a IWH/Mastiff cross?


I fear you would end up with a dog that combined the shag carpet coat of the IWH and the keen napping ability of the Mastiff. Someone might try wiping their boots on it by the door... (sorry, couldn't resist  )


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## KSALguy (Feb 14, 2006)

well i went to the ozzidoger thing and eather i dont know where i went or it wasnt there cause it was a strainge catchall mistake site with other links, 

i would like to try the IWH Mastiff cross and see what i would get, and also i agree with Reptile i would love to know what the older breeds were like before all the show breeders got ahold of them,


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## Pops2 (Jan 27, 2003)

if you google it spelled correctly it'll bring up both the home site w/ atricles and a link to the forum as the first couple of choices. never mind here is a link.
http://www.ozziedoggers.org/


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## Pops2 (Jan 27, 2003)

also the old boar hunting dane was built like a dogo argentino. and the old working mastiff was ranged between a kangal and a boerboel. the english bulldog looked like the modern american bulldog (performance type, which commonly have a tight undershot or reverse scissor bite). the bullmastiff looked like a modern bandog. the chihuahua was big enough to kill small rodents and feed a family of 5. the boxer looked similar to the modern pitbull/amstaff and only ran about 45-55#. the pomeranian could be found as large as 30# and was fine vermin killer. the pug too was up to 30#. the sharpei was virtually identical to the APBT. working bedlingtons can be seen on british hunting sites & they don't look remotely like a lamb. believe it or not the base dog used to create the GSD looked like a schnauzer including the wirehair. the rottweiller (more correctly the thuringian cattle dog) also came in red and wolf gray (grizzled gray w/ darker & lighter shadings). in the case of the breeds ruined too long ago we only have artistic rendering however for MANY of the descriptions i've given there exists actual photographs.


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## Wolf Flower (Dec 21, 2005)

Pops2 said:


> believe it or not the base dog used to create the GSD looked like a schnauzer including the wirehair.


Where did you get this information? Picture/link? As far as I know, there were long and short coated dogs but I never heard of a wirehair being involved.


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## KSALguy (Feb 14, 2006)

there is alot of information on there, like the discussion board, once i get settled i would like to raise and use my own hunting dogs lol


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## JasoninMN (Feb 24, 2006)

> Where did you get this information? Picture/link? As far as I know, there were long and short coated dogs but I never heard of a wirehair being involved.


As late as the early 1900's GSD's came in three coat types, short, long and wire-haired.


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## KSALguy (Feb 14, 2006)

i will ask this question here because its easyer for me to check, 

how do you initially begin training a dog to this type of work, and once they are traind to hunt are they safe on a homestead with livestock, also it seams there are at least two kinds of dog working stratagys, one is to "Bail" basically make alot of noise so you know where the pigs are, and one is to grab on and hold the pig, 

is it best to work both types togather? if you do will the dogs stay togather and and work on the same batch of hogs or will you have two differint directions to look? and how do you train the dogs to do the differint things?


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## NickieL (Jun 15, 2007)

I don't know about other breeds, but my hound is a very good hunter 

She's trained to hunt bobcat, and other critters.

She's an English Coonhound


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## TedH71 (Jan 19, 2003)

KASLguy,

You're talking about strike dogs and catch dogs. Only dog breed that I know that comes remotely close to that combo is the dogo except they don't bark. That's why you run bay (help) dogs so you can locate the dogos by the barking of the help dogs. In any case, the bay dogs can be strike dogs which are dogs that find the hog and keep the hog busy by baying and biting the hog until the hunter comes with the catch dog which is usually a bully breed (pit bull, american bulldog, anything that has bully in it) which rushes in to catch the hog...the strike/bay dogs then commonly help out. 

The Australians do not run bay pens. I suspect they have a high dog death rate because they do not have or run bay pens. Americans tend to build pens that hold feral hogs (can be 1-4 hogs..best to start with a small one) and you release the bay dog and have it bay the hog with the help of an experienced bay dog and then once the puppy gets the idea then you can tie the hog in the woods and let the pup loose and have him/her discover the hog and start baying the heck out of the hog. Praise the dog then release the hog...and you can gradually work the dog to the point they'll find the hog in the woods by theirselves and help the catch dog catch. One word of advice..the bay dogs often need more time to mature and train than catch dogs...pits are the most often used because they can and will catch hogs at 8 weeks of age! Best to let them catch a small one around 4 months old then hold back til maybe 14 months when their teeth have set in. I know hunters hunt them much earlier but then they're not physically fully developed and their teeth can be ripped out if hunted too early.


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## JasoninMN (Feb 24, 2006)

> and once they are trained to hunt are they safe on a homestead with livestock,


Hunting dogs of any type should be broke off livestock because if your dogs cross someones property and take after their livestock they are liable to get shot. Also you don't want them chasing anything other then what you are training them to hunt. Yes, they can still live on the homestead with livestock, poultry and other pets.


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## Pops2 (Jan 27, 2003)

running dogs that find & catch is dangerous business. you have to be johnny on the spot or they will get exhausted and killed. they're best used in open country where you can stay w/ them easier. it can work in heavier cover if the dog will stop and bay the hog until you get there and then catch. but we actually have plenty of dogs in the USA that do it. most are crossbreds like catahoulaXpit, catahoulaXbulldog, pointerXpit, labXpit. lurchers are good for this too. the best use of sighthounds though is for spotlighting in crop fields. a good pair of stag or bullXgrey (here it's mostly pitXgrey) should be able to pull up a pig before it gets far but you still want to have a leggy heavy hitter to anchor it so the fast dogs don't get jacked up. about the only purebreds i KNOW will do it all including catch are dogos and black mouth curs (especially the lines originating from Randy Wrights yard like bounty hunter & yellow jacket, i'd stay away from ladner lines they are great **** & squirrel dogs but too soft to stop hogs consistantly) and the catahoulas from Larry Parker are usually pretty catchy.
as for training Ted layed out a pretty good program. i would add short scent drags and obedience at an early age. this gets them hooked early on running a track and gives you a good handle (which makes stock breaking much easier). at 8 weeks a 20 yd straight drag is hard work for a pup, so reward it well lots of loving him up and chewing on the drag and maybe a snack. the important thing is for him to excited about running the track himself.
IMO running a track for dogs is like taking a test or solving a puzzle, lots of brain work there. some dogs like some folks just don't want to do it even though they can, but they love the fight (bay or catch). now a if you're lucky you can make a geek w/ muscle that loves to run his own track because he is looking forward to the catch. but you can't catch what you can't find, so tracking & obedience are the first things you need to teach.


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## Pops2 (Jan 27, 2003)

also baying Vs catching is more breeding/personality than training. the most important thing is that your baydog be willing to lay teeth on the hog hard. other wise you're going to be running hogs instead of catching hogs.


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## TedH71 (Jan 19, 2003)

Breeds commonly used here in America to find and hold at bay are: catahoulas (my favorite breed but be sure you get a pup whose parents ACTUALLY hunt...not some famous stud from 4-8 generations ago and while they're starting to sell them as beautiful dogs...be sure they can work. The solid colored ones work just as good as the spotted ones. They're also more hard headed and take a while to mature. They're also the Louisiana state dog), blackmouths, blue lacys (starting to get popular in Texas bec they listen much better and are more obedient. They come in only 3 colors: blue (gun slate grey), blue/tan (like a rottweiler markings), and red (can be bright yellow to dull red). They also are on the small size (25-55 lbs) and are the trapper's most preferred dog due to their ability to use their noses early and they mature fast. They're the Texas' state dog. I still have one. 

Mountain curs (can be open on track so they're not that popular), hounds (they can scare hogs off with their open on track voices...key is to get what other hound hunters consider a cull...a hound that is silent on track...not every hound wants to hunt hogs and be gritty...most hounds aren't...the best breed for that is the plott hound.

Now people are starting to discover terriers CAN hunt and are smaller, cheaper to feed, and get thru heavy brush: jack russells, jagdterriers (starting to be real popular), and rat terriers (can be iffy....just look for the ones with Decker Giant blood in them).

Have I missed any?


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## Pops2 (Jan 27, 2003)

airedales (silent and hard some will catch), rhodesian ridgeback (most are junk but a rare few turn out and have good endurance & nose and wind up in crossbred dogs), pointers of various sorts are fairly common also (especially in crossbred dogs). i think that covers most everything normally used here.


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## KSALguy (Feb 14, 2006)

well i dont want to wind up with a dog that will hold onto a pig so tight that they dont make a sound, its pretty thickly wooded and scrub land down here and that would be bad, so i would need a dog that bays loudly but still holds, can you work them in pairs or more where one bays and one holds tight or no? also how do you keep them from running so far out you cant keep up well?


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## Pops2 (Jan 27, 2003)

how far a dog runs to start a track is called it's range. the problem is that it has nothing to do w/ the nose a hotnosed dog that only wants to run fresh tracks may well range out a ways (say a mile or more) or it may stay within 100 yards of you until it hits a track worth running. now a cold nosed dog may go either way as well.
fortunately i know you're interested in breeds that haven't been hunted in a long time that reduces the chance of both a cold nosed dog and a one that goes deep.
yes you can run a baydog and a running catchdog together. be advised if the time comes when the catchdog starts baying it'll probably not be much of a catchdog ever again. unfortunately the breeds you're interested in generally don't bay. a good prick eared little terrier can help you alot w/ finding the catch. you keep the terrier w/ you but when he want to go you let him cause he probably hears the catch while you don't. hopefully when he gets there he'll bay his fool head off to guide you in, unfortunately a lot of good terriers will wind up catching when they're supposed to be baying. also you'll want to run tracking collars so you can find them if they get hurt or worse and if need be to find the catch. once you get close enough you'll hear the hog fighting the catch.


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## TedH71 (Jan 19, 2003)

Seems your best choice is to get a bay dog and train it from puppy hood to adult and hope it becomes a strike dog then get a catch dog pup and when the pup is old enough to catch for a living, you'll have to lead in the catch dog. That way you'll know where the hog is and be more able to protect yourself if a hog decides you're the target. Don't understimate hogs..they're referred to as the "Poor Man's Grizzly" for a good reason. Personally I prefer 2 strike/bay dogs and up to 3 catch dogs. One catch dog can't do it all even if the dog is a big one.


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## KSALguy (Feb 14, 2006)

oh dont worry if and when i do start hunting with dogs it will be with more than just two, 

i had another thought, they talk alot about useing Greyhounds with Bully breeds, my main issue is i dont like the pointed face is why i lean more to the mastiff and Dane, what if you put a BullMastiff over a Greyhound? what sort of mix would that throw and would they possibly be able to both Bay and Catch? 

if i start hunting i would want to breed my own line,

also the area of Alabama i am in is not heavely run with feral hogs, but Georgia and Florida are not far, and there are some areas with some hogs around here i think,


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## TedH71 (Jan 19, 2003)

It's better to start with breeds that are already known to hunt hogs. That's your best bet. You could try to start your own bloodline but then again you'll go thru a lot of trail and error plus have to cull quite a few pups because there will be a higher rate of dogs that don't wanna work. Crossing greyhounds with pits tends to make their heads less pointy based on what I've seen. Not sure about bullmastiff/greyhound crosses. I know bullmastiffs are not the world's fastest dog plus you do have to make sure they don't develop hip dyplsia and they mature slow. Main negative point about greyhounds is that they have skin that easily tears and even in half crosses...skin issues can still occur. Just a thought.

Austrailians are the ones that are coming up with lots of crosses those days because they do not have what I would call a native dog that already hunts. I believe they are already starting to do that with the dog breed called the "bull arab". I've been wanting one for a long time but don't know if there are any breeders in the U.S.. They're not a registered breed and they're a made up breed in some ways but starting to get standardized.

Subscribe to the magazine called "Bayed Solid". Lots of good info to learn. There's a guy in southern Alamaba that hunts hogs with Australian Cattle Dogs aka heelers......I would rather go use kelpies than heelers because from what I understand..heelers tend to bite too hard and drive the hogs off. Heelers are smart dogs though.


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## Pops2 (Jan 27, 2003)

Don't worry about the skin, the bull & mastiff breeds fix this in the cross. the greyhound eliminates dysplasia in the firstcross. these only become issues if you continue to breed the line. also the skin is less of an issue if you use coldbloods. but even w/a hotblood the bully will also fix feet, and endurance. what you should wind up w/ in looks is a very heavy greyhound look w/ much less pointy head. bull/mastiff breeds & sighthound breeds are very prepotent in a cross and so they tend to blend w/ each other and come out in the middle. hound, cur, terrier, herding and sled dog types are less prepotent and have less effect when crossed to either a sighthound or bull/mastiff breed.
the biggest issue you're going to run across in trying to do GOOD crossbreeding is access to the best blood. not so much the sighthounds but w/ breeds that aren't heavily worked most breeders are BYB producing junk or show breeders who want to control the dog even after it leaves their yard. many won't even provide stud service.


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## Pops2 (Jan 27, 2003)

also you got a lot more hogs than you think.


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## KSALguy (Feb 14, 2006)

a woman i know back up in the Montgomery area runs a GreyHound rescue for the dog tracks in alabama, if i talk to her its very likely i could get a pretty good female or two that just didnt do well in the races, i am not 100% on if they automatically fix them when they leave the track or not, if they do i will ask her to get me one that isnt fixed. 

also can you explain the differince between Hot and Cold blood?


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## KSALguy (Feb 14, 2006)

also i saw a video on Utube where a litter of pups are being fed a whole small pig, does this maybe help train the pups to view pigs as something good to go out and find? i am a RawFeeding Fan so if this is the case i am all for it, i have never fed any meat that had any of the outside identification as to what it was from to my dogs because i dont want them to associate the live animal with food, but in the case of HogDogs do you WANT them to see pigs and pigs only as their food to go find? 

OH and on other thing, if you had HogDogs with the Greyhound and Bully mix blood in them, and they are trained not to harm livestock but go after pigs, will they also tear up any coyote or **** that comes in the vacinity of the farm?


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## Rouen (Aug 19, 2004)

KSALguy said:


> I am not 100% on if they automatically fix them when they leave the track or not, if they do i will ask her to get me one that isnt fixed.


I've never seen a rescue rehome an unaltered dog, as that goes against their mission. and in some states it's actually a legal obligation.


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## TedH71 (Jan 19, 2003)

Some rescues actually do let out unaltered animals..either bec they can't afford it or the dog is from a very rare breed and neutering/spaying the dog would cause genetic problems in the breed. It's rare but it does happen. I've seen some rescues in Oklahoma that don't neuter their dogs...lots of shelters in Oklahoma do adopt out the animals without neutering/spaying them....then again some of them put down their animals by shooting them!

As for feeding your dogs raw hog meat, it's do able but keep in mind you will have to adhere to a strict worming procedure. Raw chicken (every day with bones included) with organ meats (2-3 x a week) and misc. vitamins, etc, is the best route. Raw hog meat can sometimes give dogs dirrehea for some reason. Cur dogs will still hunt ***** and possums even if they hunt hogs, lol.


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## KSALguy (Feb 14, 2006)

ok i am a little unclear on the term Cur, is that just a country un alterd dog or am i missing something?


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## TedH71 (Jan 19, 2003)

Cur is a generic term used to identify dogs that hunt AND herd. For example: catahoula leopard, blackmouth cur, mountain cur, etc. Catahoulas and blackmouths are used more for both herding and hunting. The others are more used for hunting. They tend to be hot nosed (preferring a fresh track), silent on track (not barking while tracking unlike hounds), and more gritty (tough). They also tend to be more dog aggressive than hounds so that can be a negative thing but it's all in how you raise them and also to some amazing degree, bloodlines...some catahoula breeders are in their head in the sand to that trait. They just want to sell pretty puppies and not tell the truth about their negative sides. Not all curs want to work for a living.


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## KSALguy (Feb 14, 2006)

the reason i asked about feeding the pups destind to hunt pigs pigs is i wonderd if them seeing a whole pig as a meal would make them want to hunt it better, i know i need to mix other meats in for a good raw diet,


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## GoldenMom (Jan 2, 2005)

KSALguy said:


> i am a RawFeeding Fan so if this is the case i am all for it, i have never fed any meat that had any of the outside identification as to what it was from to my dogs because i dont want them to associate the live animal with food, but in the case of HogDogs do you WANT them to see pigs and pigs only as their food to go find?


Forgive me as I know absolutely nothing about hog hunting! Are the dogs supposed to catch and hold the pig or catch and kill the pig? If it's the former, I don't think I'd want the dogs specifically thinking "food". If it's the later, don't you want to take the "good" parts of the pig before the dog starts eating it? 

I would assume that like any hunting breed, the desire to hunt that particular critter is instinct. I wouldn't knowingly feed my retrievers whole, intact ducks to make them want to find/retrieve ducks more (oh my, I can't even imagine them wanting the ducks *more*!!!). And I would be worried that my dog would decide that she wanted breakfast more than returning the duck to me. Maybe my analogy is totally false, please educate me.


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## TedH71 (Jan 19, 2003)

No, they aren't supposed to kill the pig but if it happens to be a piglet...they tend to die unless the dog catching it decides to be gentle with it. Yes, you can feed them raw pork..as a reward. The dogs know the difference between a dead and a live hog. It won't affect their behavior a whit..it's purely instinct.....used to be the old timers who owned catahoulas..they would breed a litter. Raise it to be maybe a year or so old. Release them in the woods. If any came back without being called back....it was shot on the spot, the ones that came back immediately when called were also shot. The ones that wandered aimlessly in the woods were shot. The ones that worked either cattle or hogs were kept and bred from. Those dogs tended to be very hard headed and hard to call off unless trained very well. Very harsh but it worked. Funny thing is someone did a genetic test (from what source, I don't know) and seems that genes played a large part of the instinct part.


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## Pops2 (Jan 27, 2003)

KSAL
hotblood greys are registered dogs used for racing or showdogs. coldbloods are unregistered bred for hunting but depending on the breeder may have pedigrees just as long. coldbloods are usually bigger w/ more endurance and better feet and a strong hunting drive. hotbloods have a higher top end speed and are usually smaller. rescues will almost never let them go unaltered. better to go to the track and make friends w/ trainers/kennel owners. coldblood pups are usually much cheaper as well.
feeding pork won't matter one way or the other.
if you let them know it's okay then yes they will kill coyote & ***** as well.


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## KSALguy (Feb 14, 2006)

ok i posted on a local board asking if anyone in the area uses dogs to hunt the feral hogs down here, and if so what kind and are there any available, 

another question, would a GreyHound mix work in a heavily wooded scrubby area? there really isnt alot of wide open land here,


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## TedH71 (Jan 19, 2003)

If I recall correctly, I know of someone who hog hunts with Jagdterriers in Alamaba. I will look into that and send you then info. Those dogs are super tough and smart but require an experienced owner.


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## KSALguy (Feb 14, 2006)

ok i am impressed, i dont normally like small dogs but the Jagdterrier is an exception, if i had a couple of them it wouldnt matter what was available to hunt they would do it, and putting one over a Greyhound or something larger would probably get the same results on a large dog, 

oh and i saw some of the BlackMouth Curs and the fawn with black face ones are something i would like to have too, 

if there are any Jagd terriers in alabama i would like to try and get at least one good one,

oh and also how would you break a high prey drive animal like this to leave stock alone and still go after ***** and hogs and the like?


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## Rouen (Aug 19, 2004)

patterdale terriers are another terrier used on hogs. some lines of pats are crossed with pits.


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## TedH71 (Jan 19, 2003)

Completely forgot about the patterdales. They tend to be calmer and on the smaller side than Jagds. There are some bloodlines that are bigger out there and yes, I was told they could work hogs just as well as ***** (their primary prey along with foxes). You could also try the Jack russells. I haven't found the Alamaba breeder yet. I will let you know when I do.


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## Pops2 (Jan 27, 2003)

pats are more catchy, you'd probably be better w/a jagd or two. the most important step in stockbreaking is early obedience.
the place to get a Jagd down there is Scott Alls his kennel is Dixieland Jagds, he is on the net so a google should turn him up. if it doesn't give me a day to find him in full cry.


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## designer (Aug 19, 2004)

In regards to your first post about the older breeds. The hounds seem to have been important in the Celtic culture based on the abundant use of the hound motifs in their carvings and paintings. Artwork is a great way to get a peek into the old look of breeds. Being an artist and a hound lover I love the old paintings with dogs. The 15th century "Book of the Hunt" by Gaston Phoebus has some interesting illustrations in it showing greys, mastifs, and some other types and the hunts they were used in.


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## designer (Aug 19, 2004)




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## KSALguy (Feb 14, 2006)

honestly i am not into the paterndale it kinda creaps me out some how with the way its face is, if i got a small dog it would have to be the Jagd, 

i have read about the Dixieland Jagd kennels but i cant find them, they turn up in Google listings but none of the links work, they all go to some generic catchall mistake site, 

i am also looking at BlackMouth Curs now too, someone down here emaild me about their Catahoula but i am not really a fan of multicolord dogs with blue eyes, so i started looking at the BlackMouth, the information i found so far was a bit vauge but they sound like good all round dogs, i know some of you have them right? can you fill in some more info on them for me?


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## TedH71 (Jan 19, 2003)

Not all catahoulas are multi colored. There are tons that are solid colored and tend to sell cheaper because everyone likes the pretty ones, me included but I like it when they are capable of working. Personally I like the ice blue eyes...easier to see at night time. The solid colors are:black, tan, red, red/black, etc...even brindle. There are some good catahoula breeders in Alamaba that I can give you references on if you're interested or for your own research.

As for blackmouth curs...they're a dime a dozen in Texas and Louisiana. Don't go for blackmouths that have been bred to be tree dogs. They tend to be ok hog dogs. Keep in mind there are brindle blackmouth curs and I have a friend who has a 90 year old blackmouth cur bloodline that isn't registered but is mostly saddlebacks. Wish I could get some of his but I'm in KS.


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## KSALguy (Feb 14, 2006)

yeah i noticed that your from my homeland lol, i was born in Kingman and lived there for 16 years before moveing to Arlington near Pretty Prairie, i worked in Hutchinson for a while before we moved down here to Alabama three years ago.

yeah i would like to research the caahoula a little more if they have solid colors in something i would like lol, i am REALLY partial to the fawn/brown with a black face, thats what i like about the Blackmouth, that and they seem calmer?? i also like some brindle, basically colors common in the Mastiff breeds, not really into spots but they are cool on some dogs.


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## Pops2 (Jan 27, 2003)

one of the best lines of catahoula to be found is from Larry Parker and his dog are mostly brindle (not sure if they are registered though). they will find and catch when you get to the bay. in the blackmouth i'd look for someone breeding ben blood by way of bounty hunter, randy or yellow jacket. you'd also be good w/ carnathan and howard dogs. out of these the the howard and the generic ben blood is least catchy.


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## TedH71 (Jan 19, 2003)

As for catahoulas, you can go to www.catahoulas.org/ and click on breeders. The guy in Alamaba is by the name Slack Catahoulas: http://slackcatahoulas.com and if that link doesn't work, google Slack Catahoulas. He has brindles with leopards. Nice combo and he has a litter due anytime.

As for patterdales, I've talked to Ronald Stout and his bays hogs and don't catch them. Pricey pups though. His email is: [email protected] or call him at: 304-636-6690. You can also check out another website: www.barnburnerpatterdales.com. It's not his website, another different website.

Found a jagdterrier breeder in KS by accident. Haven't had the opporunity to talk to him. Ken Coatney: 620-514-0052.


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## cricket (Dec 15, 2004)

Rouen said:


> I've never seen a rescue rehome an unaltered dog, as that goes against their mission. and in some states it's actually a legal obligation.



It is actually illegal in the state of AL to rehome an unaltered dog if you're a rescue or shelter. It's been known to happen with some of the more disreputable rescues but I don't know of any greyhound rescue that would even remotely think about placing one unaltered.... Thank the heavens.


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## KSALguy (Feb 14, 2006)

hmmmm, well it looks like this is going to be one of thoughs long drawn out planning processes, thats ok that just means that hopefully all the buggs are worked out before i actually dive in head first,


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## JasoninMN (Feb 24, 2006)

If I were you, I would look for some hunters in your area and go on a few hunts with them. That way you will see if its something you really want to get into before you invest a lot into it. Also local hunters should be able to help you find some good dogs in your area and the types of dogs that work best there. Hunting styles and the dogs used can very by terrain and region. Most people are more then happy to let someone new come along and help them get started.


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## Pops2 (Jan 27, 2003)

the only problem w/ that is that most americans are hidebound. they do things the same way as their daddy and beleive it's the only proper way. dog hunters are just as bad about it as anyone else, so they may not use the technique you want to use nor the breeds. doesn't mean you can't learn a lot from them though.


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## KSALguy (Feb 14, 2006)

i was just offerd some Catahoula and Blackmouth pure and mixed dogs for well over $2000 each i think thats a bit much for this at this point lol, then i was offerd an american Bulldog and a American bull/Boston terrier mix that have never been hunted before, wow is all i can say to that,


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## Pops2 (Jan 27, 2003)

unless you know the person really really well, beware of free/cheap adult hunting dogs. now pups are a blank page.


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## KSALguy (Feb 14, 2006)

i dont think i would buy an adult prouven or other wise anyway for this sort of thing, a pup i would buy if the price was right, 

but a 4-6 year old dog for $2600.00 or free i am just not cool with that, for free there has got to be something wrong with it, and for 2600 the dog better do more than just find and catch the pig, he better clean and gutt the sucker too, not to mention drive the vehickle lol, 

i just cant see going into debt for a hobbie over a dog someone else has already used (for better or worse) and i know nothing about them,


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## TedH71 (Jan 19, 2003)

I would go hunting with the dog before shelling out big bucks because there are some people called dog traders out there that are shady people and personally I've known some dogs that will hunt for a CERTAIN person only! Some of those dogs just don't mesh with their owners' needs such as the fact that the dog is a long range dog and the owner needs a short range dog or a dog that needs walk hunting only or truck hunting, etc.

If you get a free dog, have the owner give a free demo. The dog SHOULD do the work! IF not, then say no. If the dog refuses to do the work with you..return the dog or be prepared to cull the dog (sad to say but there are people that will put down a dog immediately if the dog won't work or is aggressive to people (aggressiveness is never acceptable either)). IF the dog is a puppy, there are some breeds that are slow starters but go full blast once they get going.


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## KSALguy (Feb 14, 2006)

yeah, the one guy thats not chargeing a house morgage for his dogs sounds like he is in a similar place that i am, wanting to start but with out the time and resoruces todo it justice right now, so i think if he and i can maybe team up and see if two heads are better than one maybe we can both get started for a reasonable cost and learning curve, 

the guy who wants a house morgage can keep his dogs i dont care what they are,


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## TedH71 (Jan 19, 2003)

To be fair, I've seen dogs for sale at $1k-5k. Those are or have to be very proven dogs that can hunt in any condition. Champion **** hounds often are expensive if they're proven simply because you can make a living entering them in comps where they would earn $ and prizes. I know of a man who does nothing but **** hunt comps. He made $40k on one of his dogs one year. You have to be really decidated and willing to work hard on dog training.


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