# Land in Maine: Question



## speedfunk (Dec 7, 2005)

So I'm considering remotely purchasing a very affordable "non conforming" (non build able) lot in Sabbatus Maine. The land is cheap so I don't really want to pay for an attorney, Its also at the peak of what I have money wise. I have checked with Town that there is no back taxes on it. 

Is their anything else I should look for as far as liens etc? Agencys to check with? 

Anybody know the area well? Looks like some good canoeing!  I just want it to camp on and play.


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## frankva (May 21, 2009)

Remote purchase as in sight unseen?

Could be swamp.


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## speedfunk (Dec 7, 2005)

Well , not exactly sight unseen. I've spent a good amount of hours pouring over the tax map, Google earth and don,t jump on things lightly. Google earth even has a street view of the land. Its by a river but on the same elevation as 7 or 8 houses. Thanks for the reply though. Its a new subdision and is a housing lot that did not meet the minimum road frontage. The owner has the perk test. So I can safely say its not a swamp.


I also found this link which is pretty good.

http://activerain.com/blogsview/1712146/do-you-need-attorneys-lawyers-to-buy-sell-trade-maine-real-estate-me-properties-


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## frankva (May 21, 2009)

Road trip! Not that far across Rt 2. Would be worth looking around the area. Might find something better.

Some townships have ordinances against "long term" camping.

Have you ever been to Lewiston, ME before?


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## ET1 SS (Oct 22, 2005)

1- "non conforming" (non build able) 

I would have to ask why it is 'non-conforming'?

If it is due to failing perc, there are ways around that, so you can build in 5 years.



2- Sabbatus Maine.

I know nothing about land so far South in that region.



3- "The land is cheap" so I don't really want to pay for an attorney.

You never have to hire an attorney in Maine.

OTH, We bought two parcels of land here. An attorney doing the title search/insurance and recording a brand new deed costs $200 flat fee per property.



4- Is it waterfrontage?

Water frontage forest land [river, lake, pond] commonly goes for $900/acre, while dry forest land goes for $300/acre.



5- What would your taxes be like? If it is forest it should run around $1.05/acre.


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## ET1 SS (Oct 22, 2005)

frankva said:


> Road trip! Not that far across Rt 2. Would be worth looking around the area. Might find something better.
> 
> Some townships have ordinances against "long term" camping.


Wow!

That would be rough. When you look at organized townships, I guess they must do stuff like that to keep their tax revenue high enough to keep going.

Which is why we moved into an unorganized township. Fortunately most of Maine is unorganized towns [like 52%] 

There is like eight townships in Maine that got tired of tax burdens and burned their town charters. Our township did that.


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## farmgal (Nov 12, 2005)

Are you going to sell that place you've been building? Hows that coming along?


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## ET1 SS (Oct 22, 2005)

farmgal said:


> Are you going to sell that place you've been building? Hows that coming along?


I am assuming that your question was meant for me.

We have no intent to sell.

Every year we plant more perennial plants, which takes up a lot of time. We keep modifying our diet to conform more and more to crops we produce. Trying to get away from store bought food.

Last year I added a 3-car garage with sky lights; and then a wrap-round porch, extending the roof line out 8 foot on all four sides of house. The South side is all clear greenhouse [lots of hanging plants].

This year we are focusing on solar power to be off-grid [stand-alone, not grid-tie].

Next year we are planning on adding solar heating so our woodstove will become more for just cooking.

We are trying to reduce our need for monthly bills. No electric bill, no heating fuel, etc.

At times it feels like progress is slow.


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## mpillow (Jan 24, 2003)

Lewiston and its surrounding communities are not my idea of "good wholesome maine"...I've lived here for 41 yrs.....non buildable land is a waste of money...I would second going for the lower taxes of an unorganized remote area....

Do a search on tax rates for maine towns/cities too....the range is WIDE....1/2 a mile away into the "city" of winslow and my taxes would triple....OUCH!


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## speedfunk (Dec 7, 2005)

Okay let me clarify my original statement. The land cannot have any residence on it. I could build outbuildings with no problem. The lot is next to the sabbatus river , below the ---- on the south side of the highway. The taxes will be around $50/yr. If the lot was buildable it was $500/yr!! Its 1.10 acres. The reason they consider it "non-conforming" , (I just laugh everything I think about that term) is because of road frontage requirements its NOT perc related. Its a cool lot where I could have totally privacy and walk out the back part of the land for 200' on a electric line down to the sabbatus river and chill there.

@frankva: No I have not ..thats why I'm kind curious. Any opinions? I would love to hear them! I really just want a base camp that has super low taxes! Being close to town might also be nice so if the family wants a quick bite to eat we can do that. I did look over their ordinances. While there certiainly were some silly/stupid ones that was not on the list. Kids have a curfew and have to show ID to cops...that one disturbs me, apparently gang behavior :hysterical:

ET1: 
Could I just take the deed I get from seller and submit that to the office of registry?

The only thing I want to build on there would be a "shed" which would really be a rustic cabin built from the trees I need to clear anyway. I would never build a house/residence there as one house is enough to care for lol... We love where we are putting down roots in rural central NY, the people around here the hills. However I REALLY like to explore but strongly dislike touristy areas, like when my mom brought us to barharbor. The nature/environment was cool but the town stuff was super chezzy but bike riding around the islands was really fun. 

The true north appeals to me a lot. I think Dick Promede on his self built cabin holed up for the winter. This will prob happen at some point in my life but not now with new family. The southern parts of maine are an easier trip. For instance from central NY to Sabbatus is around 7 hours. I think this has better chance then 10-13 hour trip with 2 1year olds and a 4 year old in tow. Kind of why i'm excited is becuase online i have not seen much this overall cheap this south. if anyone knows of anything cheaper 


----... those prices make me feel like I'm paying too much lol. The thing is I have an annual income of around 10G/yr lol. Also with building our homestead, I dont have much money to put into an additional piece of property. So OVERALL price is kind of what I'm after. The price is around 3G FYI. BUT this gets me a base camp to explore UP NORTH ( your parts) the ocean is only 30 mins away, countless lakes and mountains to the north and west. NOW if I come in contact with an area I really dig I can sell this and put that money and maybe more toward something different. 

BTW ET1, the area your in sounds awesome, if you dont mind me asking what general area is it? .. Also if you see any amazing deals PM me for sure!!! 
Farmgal: If that was directed at me..No Way!. NEVER!!! I've really grown to love our current 14 acres. The homestead we are building will never sell! We should have certificate of occupancy by winter.  Thanks for asking ... 

mpillow: Do you think I can do much better then 50/yr? To me that sounds good?

I'm coming up to maine again in october ..and friend and I are going to hike and explore for 4 days. hopefully spend a day at the new property clearing it  edit to add IF everything goes through smoothly, which is should


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## speedfunk (Dec 7, 2005)




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## ET1 SS (Oct 22, 2005)

speedfunk said:


> Okay let me clarify my original statement. The land cannot have any residence on it. I could build outbuildings with no problem. The lot is next to the sabbatus river , below the ---- on the south side of the highway. The taxes will be around $50/yr. If the lot was buildable it was $500/yr!! Its 1.10 acres. The reason they consider it "non-conforming" , (I just laugh everything I think about that term) is because of road frontage requirements its NOT perc related. Its a cool lot where I could have totally privacy and walk out the back part of the land for 200' on a electric line down to the sabbatus river and chill there.


Your not allowed to build a dwelling because of road frontage? I am not familiar with that requirement.

Is there like a ratio of land to road frontage they want? We have around 1/4 mile of road frontage. There is one property adjacent to ours that is up for sale, it has no road frontage at all. It is back in away from the road, though it does have some water frontage. I have harvested peat on that property.

$50/year for 1.1 acres is a lot higher than I would have thought, assuming it was 'conforming'. I would have assumed that non-conforming should be lower taxed. My land is 'conforming' and water frontage, $1.05/acre are the taxes. 

It is nice to be able to walk out our back door to a river; relax, fish or swim. 





> ... ET1:
> Could I just take the deed I get from seller and submit that to the office of registry?


$8 filing fee.





> ... The only thing I want to build on there would be a "shed" which would really be a rustic cabin built from the trees I need to clear anyway. I would never build a house/residence there as one house is enough to care for lol...


'Shoreland zoning' limits tree cutting within 250 foot of the river. Ask the town Code Enforcement guy before you cut anything. Huge fines happen if you violate that.





> ... We love where we are putting down roots in rural central NY, the people around here the hills. However I REALLY like to explore but strongly dislike touristy areas, like when my mom brought us to barharbor. The nature/environment was cool but the town stuff was super chezzy but bike riding around the islands was really fun.


With 3,000+ miles of ocean coast line Maine has a bunch of those tourist towns. Very expensive homes and lots of people in the summer flashing cash.

Bar Harbor, MDI, Rockport, ....





> ... The true north appeals to me a lot. I think Dick Promede on his self built cabin holed up for the winter. This will prob happen at some point in my life but not now with new family.


Who is he?

I tried google, but did not find anything.





> ... BTW ET1, the area your in sounds awesome, if you dont mind me asking what general area is it? .. Also if you see any amazing deals PM me for sure!!!


I live in Northern part of Penobscot county on the Penobscot River.


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## speedfunk (Dec 7, 2005)

1. I called code officer and he was very gruff with me. I asked it their was any way to obtain a variance. I would basically sell if I can change into a building lot. The price would be around 25-30G (judging by real estate listings in the area). I could take that profit and get something really cool  He said no. In a way I don't quite believe him. I guess I should do some checking on my own .. 

Yes walking out your back deck to that is pretty awesome..congrats 

2. Really good to know thanks.. again willing to learn real estate stuff b/c I seam to like "playing" (not working lol) in it and SO FAR in NY anyway have had some luck gaining a fair bit (for me anyway) of wealth from previous transactions. 

3. Again good to know!!! I did a check on google maps and the prospective lot looks to be around 300-400 ft away from river. I can also see neighbors CLOSER to river who have cut down trees for their homes..was not aware of such things. Zoning ...cannot escape it 

4. Sorry spelled the name wrong. Pretty cool guy. Alone in the Wilderness, the story of Dick Proenneke, by Bob Swerer Productions

5. Ok , so your not SUPER DUPER north...maybe an hour or two past sabbatus. Its good to know there are some better prices just a bit more north. edit to add that I see the northern most parts are prob 3-4 hours. man..it looks awesome out there (at least from the sky )


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## farmgal (Nov 12, 2005)

ET1 SS said:


> I am assuming that your question was meant for me.


 No it was for speedefunk. sorry for the mix up...lol


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## woodsy (Oct 13, 2008)

I think you will find Sabattus to be a fairly heavily populated area .
Sabattus pond is known to turn green in the summer from algae blooms.
I visited a friend who had a camp on the pond, heavily populated, jet skis ,
power boats racing around, LOL.

Not tying to bust your bubble but not exactly a area with a lot of solitude.
If i were looking for a camping lot and nice canoeing i'd look further north and/or northwest. 
I understand you are on a budget but the further north you go the cheaper land is 
and you may want just want to build a small camp eventually.

Good luck whatever you decide!


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## rickfrosty (Jun 19, 2008)

speedfunk said:


> So I'm considering remotely purchasing a very affordable "non conforming" (non build able) lot in Sabbatus Maine. The land is cheap so I don't really want to pay for an attorney, Its also at the peak of what I have money wise. I have checked with Town that there is no back taxes on it.
> 
> Is their anything else I should look for as far as liens etc? Agencys to check with?
> 
> Anybody know the area well? Looks like some good canoeing!  I just want it to camp on and play.


I haven't read what others have commented on this yet, but as a realtor in ME I will advise you to get a title search done by an attorney.
Unfortunately this will be about $350+/-, but even a cheap unbuildable lot is no good if someone has a lien on it ?


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## ET1 SS (Oct 22, 2005)

woodsy said:


> I think you will find Sabattus to be a fairly heavily populated area. ...


I had not thought of that, so I checked.

Sabattus has 175 people per-square-mile, while Androscoggin County over all has 229 people per-square-mile.

In Maine terms that is fairly urban.

But even in a densely populated area like that I am sure a person could still find hidden corners of relative solitude.


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## rickfrosty (Jun 19, 2008)

speedfunk said:


> Well , not exactly sight unseen. I've spent a good amount of hours pouring over the tax map, Google earth and don,t jump on things lightly. Google earth even has a street view of the land. Its by a river but on the same elevation as 7 or 8 houses. Thanks for the reply though. Its a new subdision and is a housing lot that did not meet the minimum road frontage. The owner has the perk test. So I can safely say its not a swamp.
> 
> 
> I also found this link which is pretty good.
> ...


This is just a website for an Aroostook County Realtor, but it does go into why you aught to invest in a title search, so I'm surprised you recommend the site & ignore the advice ?


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## rickfrosty (Jun 19, 2008)

speedfunk said:


> So I'm considering remotely purchasing a very affordable "non conforming" (non build able) lot in Sabbatus Maine. The land is cheap so I don't really want to pay for an attorney, Its also at the peak of what I have money wise. I have checked with Town that there is no back taxes on it.
> 
> Is their anything else I should look for as far as liens etc? Agencys to check with?
> 
> Anybody know the area well? Looks like some good canoeing!  I just want it to camp on and play.


Again, as a ME realtor, I see a lot of confusing, not-necessarily correct advice & comment here. I'm not going to take the time to adress all of this, but hope you will take your time and research this a lot more, before you plunk down hard earned funds on property that will disapoint you ?
Sounds like you may have already irritated code enforcement officer & put up a red flag w/him to keep an eye on this property - not recommended.
Like Mpillow I can't say too much positive about the greater Lewiston area
(where Sabattus is) - full of Somalians (sp?), crime ( you know, for ME), drugs & maybe yes gangs.
Have to say this is one of the worst areas in what is one of (if not THE) the safest states !
Do you look at Mainelistings.com (public side of the MLS system)? Unbuildable lots are not all that rare ?


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## speedfunk (Dec 7, 2005)

rickfrosty said:


> This is just a website for an Aroostook County Realtor, but it does go into why you aught to invest in a title search, so I'm surprised you recommend the site & ignore the advice ?


Its not so much the you should get a lawyer part I was interested in. In this page he basically outlines what you should do. 

1. climb the steps to the Maine county registry of deeds
2. find the deed the owner, seller of ME real estate was given recorded in black and white
3. Look for Liens on said piece of property. I'm assuming all gov't agencies. Town,County,State,Federal are all possible as well as mortage companies etc.
4. Follow the chain of title. 
5. Make sure description of Deed is precise and clear of confusion.
6. talk with the town office to see about back taxes, liens on the Maine property
7. Make sure property is not enrolled in any tree program. (maine) that would cost money to UN-enroll
8. Get Sellers affidavit about thing like underground tanks, easements, Right of ways, deed restrictions,Home owners association.


Anything missing?

I would guess from the cost of a lawyer for title search they spend somewhere between 3-4 hours looking up stuff. They also have the insurance in case they mess it up . All of it is public information. 

One thing I was unsure about was IF all liens would be listed at county and not be hidden somewhere else. From following link: 
_"Can a Lien be Created on Real Estate

A lien can be created on any real estate by registering your judgment with the land records office in the county in which the debtor's real state is located."_
Real Estate Lien Lawyers | LegalMatch Law Library

So lien will be attached to said property.


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## speedfunk (Dec 7, 2005)

I've been trying to describe the land but pics are easier and sometimes I feel I'm not a good written/verbal communicator. 
Thanks for every ones feedback!!! Seriously  
While in a populated area it does have a "hidden corner of relative solitude" (I like that). The river in the pics in the Sabbatus river. Which after doing homework on they have improved the water quality, no alge blooms anymore. The traffic on lake i'm sure is just as describe

I have been on the mls. Just to check again I did the whole state and under 10K. The cheapest property was 5k i think. And not a heck of a lot that was not of any personal use. Lots totally clear of trees etc. REALLY tiny. North East part of state.

My criteria at this current time period for land in Maine:
0. Under 4,000
1. The ability to be hidden, build a shed/rustic retreat, on-site materials also a plus
2. next to something cool. A lake,stream,mountain or the ocean
3. South/south western part of ME

The non-residential nature of the property is not a bad thing. Taxes will be cheap, i do not want overhead of 500/yr no matter how awesome a property is. If i can get it considered for a residential home I would and then sell it as an investment property.
pics


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## StatHaldol (Sep 1, 2006)

Please don't buy anything without at least a title opinion.


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## sherry in Maine (Nov 22, 2007)

Hi Speedfunk, perhaps you should investigate it.

I wouldn't recommend Sabattus.

It's a good idea to listen to these guy's input. Glad you are open to it.


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## speedfunk (Dec 7, 2005)

Update: I took it upon my self to compromise. I ended up getting just a title search done by an online company. The cost was lower. $100. I really think things will be fine but I decided it was worth 100 bucks to have a 2nd opinion. 


http://www.titlesearch.com/maine/30pt.php

I checked and they had a "A" ranking with BBB. 


They take care of the two things that could be an issue for me 

1. Any liens: This is the part I found tricky to research. Apparently the liens our not part of the deed. Its attached to it. I could not find where this info was stored. I am kind of looking forward to the report as it could help me gain insight into this area.

2. Making sure they whom says owns it , does. I am almost positive based on my search of the chain of title everything is fine however again nice to have someone check over it. 

Looks like first week in october I get to check it out :clap: (IF everything goes through on the purchase)

Appreciate the help very much


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