# All right I'm in.



## RangerBrad (Aug 15, 2008)

Ok folks, After all this planning I've finially commited. After talking with yal and a few others I went with Hardeman aparies Russian bees in the 4# package. They should be comming the week of the 22nd of april. I also ordered a box of supercell comb(20 frames) this morning to use in the brood boxes and when I get ahold of John Seets I intend to order 20 frames of permacomb for the supers. Does all this sound like a good way to go to yal? My plan is to purchase the other stuff I will need from Mann lake as they have a distibuter in Nobel, Ok. and a friend who raises bees and lives in the area will go with me to help me choose all the things I'll need. I know all this is expensive for one hive but, I figured if I did it right the first time it may cut down on certain problems and increase my yield. I've run fur trap lines since I was young and figured out years ago to go ahead and buy the very best up front because it saves you lots of problems down the line and your going to end up getting it any way so just do it right the first time. Anyway letting you know I took the plunge and to warn you as a first timer I'll probably be banging yals doors down with questions. Thank's for all your advice. Brad


----------



## Iddee (Sep 25, 2005)

A couple of things I would have done different, but not really right or wrong.

The big thing, tho, is I always tell a newbie to start with two hives. If you have a friend beekeeper that will check them with you often, two is unnecessary. If you are all on your own, you definitely need two.


----------



## alleyyooper (Apr 22, 2005)

I agree on the two hives to start.

Those Hardmans are some really nice people.

 Al


----------



## RangerBrad (Aug 15, 2008)

Thank's fellas, Two would have been a good way to go and I thought about it but, I felt one would supply what I want from them right now and to tell the truth 2 hives cost a little more than I'm willing to invest in at this time. Maybe if all goes well I can add 1 new hive in a year and so on and so on. Brad


----------



## Durandal (Aug 19, 2007)

Welcome aboard!

A suggestion...

If the cost is an issue...ditch the HSC frames and go with Peirco or wood frames with foundation.

The amount you save will put you half way to a second hive (not including the bees). Then put yourself on a swarm call list and cross your fingers.

Lots of options and I think if you enjoy it, you'll kick yourself for not having two...or at least the equipment to expand if the opportunity presents itself.


----------



## beehoppers (Jun 3, 2008)

Last I heard, John Sheets was only selling 1000 frames, no less.
I love the black Pierco foundation in wood frames.


----------



## RangerBrad (Aug 15, 2008)

Yes,I'm afraid I'll have to go with a diffrent super frame than the permacomb. I talked to John today and learned of the 1000 frame minimum. Guess I'll go with the plastic/pierco foundation. i was trying to keep them from wasting time and effort on comb building but I guess they'll have to build it in the supers but not the hive bodies. I intend for one of the supers to be theirs for the winters food supply and one for me. Does that seem reasonable? Though now that I can't get the permacomb I probally won't get honey for myself this year as they'll be lucky to build and get their super filled but, that's allright. I'm mostly concerened with building a good strong hive right now and will bennifit in pollination and experience. If any of yal know a way that I can collect honey for myself this year and still be able to leave them a medium super to survive the winter off of I'd sure appreciate it. Thank's, Brad


----------



## barelahh (Apr 13, 2007)

RangerBrad said:


> Yes,I'm afraid I'll have to go with a diffrent super frame than the permacomb. I talked to John today and learned of the 1000 frame minimum. Guess I'll go with the plastic/pierco foundation. i was trying to keep them from wasting time and effort on comb building but I guess they'll have to build it in the supers but not the hive bodies. I intend for one of the supers to be theirs for the winters food supply and one for me. Does that seem reasonable? Though now that I can't get the permacomb I probally won't get honey for myself this year as they'll be lucky to build and get their super filled but, that's allright. I'm mostly concerened with building a good strong hive right now and will bennifit in pollination and experience. If any of yal know a way that I can collect honey for myself this year and still be able to leave them a medium super to survive the winter off of I'd sure appreciate it. Thank's, Brad


why not buy 3 more pounds of bees? That will double your workforce.


----------



## mtnmenagerie (Jun 16, 2007)

can i jump in and ask why would two hives be better for a beginner?
thanks


----------



## Durandal (Aug 19, 2007)

It is important to be able to compare the health of the hive. If you have no other bees besides the one colony then it makes this task far more difficult.

It also allows you to rob from a strong hive and give to a weaker hive in times of need, be it frames of honey and freshly lain eggs from which the other colony can make a queen from.

Having the extra gear if not the bees also allows you to catch a swarm. I started with 4 colonies and before reducing and experimenting I was up to 13 with hobbled together equipment Eidt: From my own bees swarming and other bees around the area. 

If you want pollination the more land you have the more bees you need. 1 colony is good for about 1 to 2 acres.

Colonies die during winter. That is a fact of life and sometimes mistakes happen (crushing a queen, knocking a colony over while mowing, a bad storm does something gut wrenching) and its nice to have more than one. Once you start (in your first year) in spring you MIGHT have a window of maybe another month to properly start another colony and then its deal with racing to winter or wait till next year. That wait is a killer..

You will also get more honey and once you get into it and people know you are keeping bees, you'll appreciate that aspect as well wether as gifts, a little extra income to subsidize the bees, or as a tradeable item for eggs or homebrew, or fresh meat.

In the end I think its simply more fun to have more than one hive.

More hives are better than one.


----------



## Iddee (Sep 25, 2005)

Along with what Richard said, the main reason I recommend it is:

A new beek looking at 20,000 bees in the middle of a honey flow thinks everything is fine. He doesn't realize it is a dying hive. If he has another next to it with 60,000 bees, then he has something to compare to and realize there is a problem.


----------



## mtnmenagerie (Jun 16, 2007)

thank you. that makes sense 
i've made arrangements to buy one well established, local hive of Russian bees... i might just have to look into a second hive!


----------



## alleyyooper (Apr 22, 2005)

I been thru the one colony thing. I didn't know much at all about bees and got one nuc to start with. I didn't have a clue that they were not doing as they were supposed to do except I did see the dead queen on the landing board and got a new queen from the nuc guy 3 hours away.

The moderator on the fourm
I joined said to do a search and buy two books before I asked questions. He4 is a member here now but not a moderator YET.

They didn't live thru the first winter found out early enough I was able after doing a lot of calling and scrambling to find two packages of bees I could buy.
I bought those two packages and soon found a local bee club that was just starting up. I got one of the old bee keepers to come over for the first inspection of those bees. Turns out I found out why there were packages for sale from that place. The two new colonies were sick and had to be killed and equipment burnt.
Today I would not be in the bee bussness If I had not joined that club.
Between two of the club members giving me swarms and loaning me equipment I went into winter with 5 colonies and a whole bunch smarter.

We went into winter this year with 65 colonies. I am even a little bit smarter too. I am the second guy that gets called when a newbe needs help now who is a member of our club. 

 Al


----------



## BULLSEYE BILL (Dec 31, 2008)

I started out with one colony and by the next year I was wishing that I had two for all the reasons posted above.

Bees are infectious, you may think that you are going to have one or two hives but it never turns out that way. Soon you will have the bug or the bugs will have you, and one day you will look around and poof! you have a yard full of hives.

My suggestion is that you have a few less brews, don't eat out as often and go ahead and get enough equipment for three hives and two packages of bees. In my area the supers are not usually needed the first year but to be safe you could get two supers for this yea and then four more for rounding out your equipment for next year. Oh, and that third hive? that's for when opportunity knocks. 

All my hives are HSC and PermaComb, I won't fault you for that decision, if I were in your position that 's the way I'd go now. When I started out there was no HSC and I had no idea there was such a thing as PC.

If you can get over to Stillwater I may be able to fix you up with a few boxes of PC.


----------



## RangerBrad (Aug 15, 2008)

Howdy folks, I have a few questions on hsc/permacomb if you don't mind. First if you use them in honey supers how do you uncap them without damaging them?

What are some things I can do to them to make them more acceptable to the bees and keep them from absconding after I introduce the bees to the hive?

Can the frames be allowed to drain upside down slowly or do I have to use an extractor?
I know these are some dumb questions but, hey I'm a newbie. Thank's, Brad


----------



## Michael Bush (Oct 26, 2008)

>First if you use them in honey supers how do you uncap them without damaging them?

Hackler Honey Punch
http://www.plastools.com/honey_punch.htm

>What are some things I can do to them to make them more acceptable to the bees and keep them from absconding after I introduce the bees to the hive?

Spray with syrup. Better, spray with syrup with Honey Bee Healthy or some lemongrass essential oil in it.

>Can the frames be allowed to drain upside down slowly or do I have to use an extractor?

I've never had any luck draining them that way. but you can use the HSC in the brood boxes and foundationless or some kind of foundation in the supers and then do crush and strain.

http://www.bushfarms.com/beesharvest.htm


----------

