# Immaculate Dog Conception Debunked



## moonrabbit (Apr 1, 2016)

So two weeks ago I was shocked to discover than my Belgian Shepard, Bess, is expecting. She is such a good guard dog, very smart, great with the kids and the animals. I planned on breeding her at least once with another BS as I'd like to have more Shepards, they are great farm dogs but can be expensive.

So she looks fat to me one morning and sure enough vet confirms she is pregnant. And I'm scratching my head, we have solid fencing around all of the areas she would have access to, she's never gotten out. 

So I'm checking all over the property for holes or any way that a stray could have snuck in and I've got nothing, it's a total mystery. Until last night I overhear my 8 year old triplet girls saying something about "so romantic". And that seemed um.. pretty odd so I ask "whatcha girls talking about?"

"We were talking about Bess's boyfriend"

"Um her what?"

"Yeah they go on dates. It's really romantic."

"Another dog? You saw another dog? Where??"

"He comes to the back gate, momma and sits there real patient until we see him and we let Bess out"

"...You did what?"

"So they can go on their date, momma and then Bess comes back and we let her back in. He always walks her home." 

:hysterical: It's time for the talk. And for a big lock on the back gate.


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## no really (Aug 7, 2013)

That is hysterical!!! Best laugh I've had for awhile..


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## Jennifer L. (May 10, 2002)

Hilarious! Your kids are precious! And I mean that in the best possible way.  Did they tell you what Bess's date looked like? Besides being well mannered and a perfect gentleman, of course. LOL!


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## Jreed (Dec 24, 2014)

Triples, wowser


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## moonrabbit (Apr 1, 2016)

Jennifer L. said:


> Hilarious! Your kids are precious! And I mean that in the best possible way.  Did they tell you what Bess's date looked like? Besides being well mannered and a perfect gentleman, of course. LOL!


I've gathered that he is about as big as Bess, black and very furry. I don't know how much stock to put in the observation that he is "very handsome" or that he "smiles a lot". looooool

I have my little matchmakers keeping an eye out for him, told them I'd like to meet him and to let me know if and when they see him.


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## Maura (Jun 6, 2004)

At least he's a gentleman.


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## motdaugrnds (Jul 3, 2002)

ROFL Those are great kids! Your life must be full of exciting situations as what one does not think of, I'll bet the other two do. ROFL I'm a twin myself and that is the way it was with my sister and I. How old are they?

Can't wait to find out what the boyfriend actually is....LOL


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## Agriculture (Jun 8, 2015)

Since they are making the association with a boyfriend and dating and breeding, it sounds like they already have more information than you realize.

Some may find it cute, but I find it sad that another generation, growing up on a farm no less, is being raised to think of animals in anthropomorphic terms instead of being educated on the normal facts of life with regard to animal behavior and biology.

And for dog's sake it is shepherd, Belgian shepherd. Using correct spelling is another good teachable moment for children.


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## doozie (May 21, 2005)

The story is adorable, one that I am sure will be repeated when telling family tales for years to come.


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## mzgarden (Mar 16, 2012)

What an adorable story - kids can bring smiles for us from the most unexpected places. Glad you came and shared it. A few pictures would round out the story pretty well. :hysterical:


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## Forcast (Apr 15, 2014)

Thanks for sharing made me smile!


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## moonrabbit (Apr 1, 2016)

Agriculture said:


> Since they are making the association with a boyfriend and dating and breeding, it sounds like they already have more information than you realize.
> 
> Some may find it cute, but I find it sad that another generation, growing up on a farm no less, is being raised to think of animals in anthropomorphic terms instead of being educated on the normal facts of life with regard to animal behavior and biology.
> 
> And for dog's sake it is shepherd, Belgian shepherd. Using correct spelling is another good teachable moment for children.



They are 8 years old, it's not like they are 15. It's very rude to say that you find someone else's family life sad, my 4 year old is more courteous to people she just met. You should work on that and I'll work on my spelling.


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## moonrabbit (Apr 1, 2016)

motdaugrnds said:


> ROFL Those are great kids! Your life must be full of exciting situations as what one does not think of, I'll bet the other two do. ROFL I'm a twin myself and that is the way it was with my sister and I. How old are they?
> 
> Can't wait to find out what the boyfriend actually is....LOL


He still has not appeared, I stooped to putting dog food out back beyond the fence but all it got me so far was a pretty scraggly cat.

The girls are 8 and yes, triple the fun and triple trouble! Rocio is the mastermind, she's the one with the plan. Briseyda is the muscle, she does the dirty work. And Maya is the sweet, unsuspecting patsy that they pin it on lol. When they were 6 they told their little brother that the way water got hot was that spiders peed in it. That all grownups knew that. They did that because he always got his bath before them and with so many kids hot water is a hot commodity. Boy took cold baths for 2 weeks before I got it out of him.


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## Lady89 (Feb 22, 2014)

Let us know when you find out who the dad is, and we will be needing pictures but of the pups


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## bluemoonluck (Oct 28, 2008)

As a mother I totally appreciate the "cute factor" of this story. But the vet tech, former kill shelter worker, and current dog breeder in me winces at the thought of another litter of mixed breed puppies being born to parents who have not been properly health tested for debilitating diseases like hip and elbow dysplasia that often plague large-breed dogs (even if your ***** is fully health tested, it's safe to assume that the sire is not). Most large black dogs wandering around seem to be Labs, who are also afflicted by genetic eye issues that can be passed on to their offspring.

A quick Google search shows the average litter size for a Belgian Shepherd is 6-10 puppies. Black dogs and large dogs are the two types of dogs hardest to find homes for by statistics, and they are very likely to be euthanized in shelters if they find themselves there at any point in their lives. Finding good homes for a number of mixed breed puppies can be a hard task, especially when half of the DNA in those puppies is a breed known for having a very sharp work drive (your Belgian). 

I'd suggest that you try to find a local rescue group to help you place the puppies once they're old enough to leave their mother. The good ones have legally enforceable contracts, experience in screening potential homes, knowledge of who the local puppy flippers are, will track the pups for life (acting as a safety net in case an owner cannot keep one any longer for some reason), and will be happy to help ensure that these puppies get placed into the best possible homes. 

I have a friend here in Virginia who is very active in rescue and she may have contacts for your area as well. If you'd like to go that route, feel free to PM me and I'll pass her information along to you.


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## gapeach (Dec 23, 2011)

Agriculture, actually, I think the B and the S in Belgian Shepherd are supposed to be capitalized. :bash:


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## Jreed (Dec 24, 2014)

is there a block feature in the forum?


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## Belfrybat (Feb 21, 2003)

Jreed said:


> is there a block feature in the forum?


Yes there is. It's in User CP under Ignore List.


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## Jreed (Dec 24, 2014)

Belfrybat said:


> Yes there is. It's in User CP under Ignore List.


Super, I will check that out on my home computer.....


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## haypoint (Oct 4, 2006)

I've spent plenty of time in Animal Shelters in and around Detroit. High rate of Pit Bulls and the understandable high rate of euthanasia. So, talk of unwanted/unexpected puppies hits a chord with me. Along with the Pit Bulls, large dogs fill the freezer awaiting disposal.

I know of a situation where a farmer kept his pony stallion in a pasture with his registered Belgian Draft mares, assuming no harm. I know of a situation where an intact male dog learned to scale most wire fences, impregnating a dozen dogs in the neighborhood. I know of a situation where a girl became pregnant while in a swimming pool. Romance, soft music and scented candles are not requirements for pregnancy. 

I don't think 8 years old is too young to teach the mechanics of creation and the amazing ease that it happens.


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## mnn2501 (Apr 2, 2008)

"If you can't say something nice... don't say nothing at all." 
- Thumper


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## Agriculture (Jun 8, 2015)

mnn2501 said:


> "If you can't say something nice... don't say nothing at all."
> - Thumper


And therein lies the problem with too many animal owners today. Life is not a children's Disney movie, yet they want to make believe that it is. They confuse blunt straight talk with being "not nice". They might counter that I confuse quaint fun with stupidity.


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## motdaugrnds (Jul 3, 2002)

Oh dear! Life is *not* made up of *perfection*. Life is a series of mistakes from which many actually learn. Children (and adults) can do things that are laughable even though others may know how serious it is. Often we "adults" learn *after the fact*! 

It is situations such as the OP experienced with his wonderful children that makes living exciting. Yes, there are consequences to such acts. Yes others may criticize. Yet, it is, also, an opportunity to teach as well as learn about being "responsible". I think it would be a very sad place to live if we beat each other up for not knowing/controlling every aspect of life especially where children are concerned....


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## mnn2501 (Apr 2, 2008)

Agriculture said:


> And therein lies the problem with too many animal owners today. Life is not a children's Disney movie, yet they want to make believe that it is. They confuse blunt straight talk with being "not nice". They might counter that I confuse quaint fun with stupidity.


This is not General Chat though.


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## Jreed (Dec 24, 2014)

mnn2501 said:


> This is not General Chat though.


I was pleasantly surprised at how easy the ignore feature is, once a user only continues to cause issue and not add anything useful to any discussion I see no reason to listen to a self tooted horn that adds nothings, continually ..... I continue to learn after the fact constantly.

My terriers are in kennels or locked inside the house if not on a leash in my direct supervision for the duration of all heat cycles ....


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## haypoint (Oct 4, 2006)

I love the fact that you had a chance to engrain in three 8 year olds that an unexpected pregnancy is actually sort of funny.


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## gapeach (Dec 23, 2011)

Jreed said:


> I was pleasantly surprised at how easy the ignore feature is, once a user only continues to cause issue and not add anything useful to any discussion I see no reason to listen to a self tooted horn that adds nothings, continually ..... I continue to learn after the fact constantly.
> 
> My terriers are in kennels or locked inside the house if not on a leash in my direct supervision for the duration of all heat cycles ....


Those are some cute dogs and workers too. They remind me so much of the dogs in my family when I was growing up. Back in those days not many dogs were registered even though many were pure bred. Ours were smooth Fox Terriers and Rat Terriers. Our Vet used to breed his Fox Terrier dog to ours although neither were ever registered. They were all great family dogs.


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## vicker (Jul 11, 2003)

It's actually quite immaculate how they always find a way. You can seal them in a drum and burry it for two weeks, but that only has a %50 success rate.


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## moonrabbit (Apr 1, 2016)

Goodness this thread took a funny turn. Listen, Agriculture, I'd love to take you as seriously as you take yourself and all but I'm having a very hard time because your position here is just... silly.

I'd have to believe that you never did anything wrong as a child.

I'd have to believe that your parents gave you the talk at 3 years old.

I'd have to believe that you are the master of your universe and that nothing unexpected ever happens to you.

I'd have to believe that you know the first thing about parenting children.

I'd have to believe that you know the first thing about me, my family and my experience with animals.

I'd have to believe that you have even the foggiest idea about the future of these puppies or my intentions moving forward.

I'd have to believe all those things to be bothered by your comments here, but I don't believe any of them based on the way you express yourself. Since you are making assumptions about me, I'm going to take a wild guess and say you probably don't have kids yet. I have seven. If you have 8+ then please do feel free to give me parenting advice, I will be all ears.

As for the puppies: I am fortunate to have a wonderful community around me and the pups are already spoken for, so you can rest easy on that account. See? Social skills do pay off.


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## Agriculture (Jun 8, 2015)

It actually doesn't surprise me in the least, but if by reading my posts and yours you come away with the idea that I am being silly and not you, and that I am making assumptions and not you, all I can say is bless your heart. 

Those poor children. They are doomed.


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## haypoint (Oct 4, 2006)

The local school has a program where students take a life sized baby doll home for the weekend. This doll is programmed to cry often, continue to cry until fed, cry and require feeding in the middle of the night, diaper changes, all sorts of neat actions that replicate a real baby. There is a smardtcard in it that measures how well you care for the "baby". I think it is a good idea
I worked with a guy that had a middle school daughter. She brought the doll home. She thought it would be fun. All the kids on the bus gave her lots of attention when she had the doll.
By the end of the first night, she had a "meltdown", crying that she couldn't handle it. Of course, both parents jumped in and "saved" their daughter. They took over and made sure she would get a good grade for this weekend homework. Daddy thought it was funny. I thought she missed out on the purpose of the lesson.
Of course, she was pregnant before she was 18 and both parents jumped in to protect their daughter of the harsh realities of her poor choice.
The doll is a training tool. Just this time it trained the girl that her parents will fix things.

Based on that and other real life bits of wisdom, I'm keenly aware of the messages we send our children. In this case your attitude seems to be, " Oh well, we'll just have to make the best of it, everything is just fine, we found homes for everyone and its all good." 

That you've birthed 6 babies and love them all with all your heart is wonderful. 

I may have wrongly assumed that you missed an opportunity to explain animal behavior, hormone driven instinct, how a brief moment of passion (he said he loves me) can result in a long term obligation.

I just hate in when a teaching moment presents itself, gets missed and something else fills that spot.

A few years ago, I ran into my rural neighbor at the store. Background: I have a pair of registered draft horse mares and he has a hot blooded Paint stud.
We chatted a bit and then he apologized, " Hey, sorry about my stud getting in your pasture last week. Didn't you wife tell you? By the time I got down there, ol' Rocky was breeding your mare. That might be sorta cool a Spotted Draft horse!"
I was shocked. I just stood there, trying to make light of the situation. After all, too late now. Inside, I was boiling. I was now faced with either a foal I didn't want or a Vet bill to terminate the pregnancy. 
Then he started laughing. He had just made it up to tease me. Ha ha. He knew that I wouldn't want that to happen, the impact of such an encounter. But its no laughing matter when it happens for real.


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## Belfrybat (Feb 21, 2003)

haypoint said:


> The local school has a program where students take a life sized baby doll home for the weekend.... Of course, she was pregnant before she was 18 and both parents jumped in to protect their daughter of the harsh realities of her poor choice.
> 
> Based on that and other real life bits of wisdom, I'm keenly aware of the messages we send our children. In this case your attitude seems to be, " Oh well, we'll just have to make the best of it, everything is just fine, we found homes for everyone and its all good." ...
> 
> ...


So, the fact her *8 year* old triplets let the dog out means they will go on and become promiscuous and have babies out of wedlock themselves?!?!?!? They are 8 years old for heaven's sake. At that age they *shouldn't* know about the means and methods of procreation. Whether Moonrabbit chose this event to teach that or not is her decision -- not yours or anyone elses. She said she would put a lock on the gate so it couldn't happen again. Why is that not enough for you and the others here who want to slam her?


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## haypoint (Oct 4, 2006)

Belfrybat said:


> So, the fact her *8 year* old triplets let the dog out means they will go on and become promiscuous and have babies out of wedlock themselves?!?!?!? They are 8 years old for heaven's sake. At that age they *shouldn't* know about the means and methods of procreation. Whether Moonrabbit chose this event to teach that or not is her decision -- not yours or anyone elses. She said she would put a lock on the gate so it couldn't happen again. Why is that not enough for you and the others here who want to slam her?


I am sorry if it came across as a slam. Parenting provides learning moments and I thought the focus was on funny dogs going on a date.
At 8 years old, they know it wasn't a date. 
I did not mean to infer that as a result of this hilarious event her children would become tramps. But if this single piece of the thousand piece jigsaw puzzle we call parenting, is an example of how such events are handled, it does raise concern. Concern, not condemnation.
Education of sexual matters is often difficult for parents. Most parents deny that their children even have such thoughts. Nearly all parents of pregnant teens had no idea they were sexual.
Locking the gate isn't the solution. Explaining the ramifications of their actions might be a start. But, as you stated, that's her call. 
My view of the situation and desired action is different from yours and hers. That's fine. We can all talk about it. Share experiences. That is what discussions are.

I am surprised that you feel an 8 year old child, raised on a farm, shouldn't understand procreation. I did, my children did and my grandchildren do.


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## motdaugrnds (Jul 3, 2002)

Seems this thread has turned into a learning situation for quite a few; and though there are too many teachers, still I do think each has valuable input. (I must add some could be a little kinder in the words used.)

I also believe there was more than this incident with the "immaculate conception"; and that does give me cause for concern. The other incident sounding similar to me was when those spunky triplets teased their brother about how the water he bathed in became hot. That, too, resulted in a situation that was not expected; and that little boy paid the consequences. 

Now I have no idea how the OP dealt with the hot water situation except that she did realize something was going on and she did get the boy to speak up. It is obvious the OP keeps a close eye on her children. (Example: She overheard them talking about something being "so romantic" and asked them about it. The girls did not lie and the conversation sounded quite appropriate given the age of the girls, i.e. "I'ld like to meet him.", which tells me there is a positive style of communication going on between parent/child.)

Oh yes, children can learn serious things are not that serious; and that could easily become a detriment to them and those around them; however, simply listening to the way the OP talks with her children tells me she is working hard at being a quality parent.

Can we not express our concerns while simultaneously giving each other the benefit of the doubt?


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## moonrabbit (Apr 1, 2016)

haypoint said:


> The local school has a program where students take a life sized baby doll home for the weekend. This doll is programmed to cry often, continue to cry until fed, cry and require feeding in the middle of the night, diaper changes, all sorts of neat actions that replicate a real baby. There is a smardtcard in it that measures how well you care for the "baby". I think it is a good idea
> I worked with a guy that had a middle school daughter. She brought the doll home. She thought it would be fun. All the kids on the bus gave her lots of attention when she had the doll.
> By the end of the first night, she had a "meltdown", crying that she couldn't handle it. Of course, both parents jumped in and "saved" their daughter. They took over and made sure she would get a good grade for this weekend homework. Daddy thought it was funny. I thought she missed out on the purpose of the lesson.
> Of course, she was pregnant before she was 18 and both parents jumped in to protect their daughter of the harsh realities of her poor choice.
> ...


Laughing at your friend teasing you, that's awful lol.

It's possible that I didn't paint a full picture in the OP but my focus was on the story which is funny, talking about how I'm educating my kids about sex is a whole other can of worms so I didn't think to get into it in my original post. If I seem relaxed it is because there is nothing to be gained from agonizing over something that is said and done. I don't sweat the small stuff and this is a small event in the bigger scheme of things.

We are Christian yes but I support good education about the mechanics of procreation and my kids are aware of how animals breed, we breed all sorts of animals here on my farm and they know a lot about that. They just did not make the connection that the dogs would be going off to do that which I think is pretty normal for their age to be innocent / naive about sexual urges or intentions. 

I have older children as well and my conversations with them are more in depth, I keep things age appropriate is all.


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## linnell (Aug 14, 2014)

aw! how cute!


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## Jreed (Dec 24, 2014)

moonrabbit said:


> Goodness this thread took a funny turn. Listen, Agriculture, I'd love to take you as seriously as you take yourself and all but I'm having a very hard time because your position here is just... silly.
> 
> I'd have to believe that you never did anything wrong as a child.
> 
> ...


On a humorous note my Christian parents told me I could get a girl pregnant by swimming in the same pool, so a little practical advice about procreation at the right time and way for your family certainly cant hurt in the long run. As an adult I recently asked my dog why he taught us so much religion and not much practical life advice and he did not have a solid answer.

I would simply block the user that is being an grits, Ive rarely seen this user add anything nice much less helpful to a conversation. 

my two cents : I would much rather embrace and enjoy the legitimate and occasional accidental breeding than I would endorse poor breeds, and breeding choices for animals known to have serious health issues like pugs, bulldogs, and even the fad dogs like fluffydoodles. Ive cross bred on accident hunting terriers to sheep line kelpies, talk about high energy farm dogs


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## Jreed (Dec 24, 2014)

I did not ask my dog, as I asked my dad


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## motdaugrnds (Jul 3, 2002)

ROFL Jreed, was that what might be considered a "Freudian slip"? ROFL


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## aoconnor1 (Jun 19, 2014)

moonrabbit, I almost chocked on my orange juice while reading both the dog dating post and the spider post. How hilarious!!! Your poor son, he is sooo out-numbered!! 

I am sorry your girl got bred in that manner. As an old shelter worker, I understand all too well what can happen with an unplanned litter of pups. Hopefully she will have a small litter, and they are placed in good homes. I do wish you the best on that front. Let us know how it works out, will you?!


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## aoconnor1 (Jun 19, 2014)

Jreed said:


> I did not ask my dog, as I asked my dad


You might have gotten the same response from your dog as your dad though!! 

I'm sorry, that was a funny slip


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## bluemoonluck (Oct 28, 2008)

As soon as possible, try to get the homes you have lined up to commit to you in some way, even if it's by giving you $50 or bringing you a large bag of puppy food.... something for you to suss out how serious they really are. I have a stringent process a potential puppy owner must follow to be added to my waiting list and I still get people who back out regularly, to the point that I factor that in to my plans; I figure I need to have 5-8 people on my list for every 1 puppy I will have to sell, minimum. 

When I worked at the shelter we had puppies brought in daily from people who were scratching their heads because they had homes lined up who all wanted a pup out of their Buffy before they bred her, and then those homes disappeared when the time came for them to actually take the puppy home. They quickly became overwhelmed trying to care for that many puppies, and the end result was often unsocialized 4-5 month old puppies who were very difficult for us to rehome  

I charge extra if I have to keep a pup beyond 10 weeks due to the amount of work that it takes to raise a puppy correctly. Starting at 7 weeks they all get one-on-one trips out and about, individual training time to acclimate them to walking on a leash, and other basics that take at least an hour a day per puppy, depending on their age. If you fail to properly socialize any dog during the first 16 weeks of their life, especially a large breed dog known for having a lot of energy, numerous studies have proven that the dog is disadvantaged for life. 

In fact there is a whole series that focuses exclusively on how to best raise puppies from 0-16 weeks using sound, research-proven methods. It's called Puppy Culture and while the DVD's are expensive, the information contained within them gives you invaluable insight into exactly why those first 16 weeks make the biggest difference in a dog's life.


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## barnbilder (Jul 1, 2005)

On farm kids and "the talk", I had the talk with my seven year old, he explained things pretty well. Pretty hard to live on a farm with livestock and not figure that out. I did make sure to explain to him that when he is older, peeing in his beard will probably not impress girls to the extent that it does within the goat kingdom.


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## Jreed (Dec 24, 2014)

barnbilder said:


> On farm kids and "the talk", I had the talk with my seven year old, he explained things pretty well. Pretty hard to live on a farm with livestock and not figure that out. I did make sure to explain to him that when he is older, peeing in his beard will probably not impress girls to the extent that it does within the goat kingdom.



I think perhaps that you would explain that you have to grow a epic beard to be able to peen on it at all and that many men are never manly enough to grow that sort of beard ....:bowtie:


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## Forcast (Apr 15, 2014)

did you get pups yet?


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## Queen Bee (Apr 7, 2004)

I love this! They are too cute!


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