# Multiplier Onions?



## twind59 (Jan 6, 2005)

I have some multiplier onions on order for this year. Can anyone tell me about how to plant and care for them? Also, how much will these produce? Thanks.
Barry
Indianapolis


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## suelandress (May 10, 2002)

I do nothing special for mine. I tossed them in a shallow trench, covered them, and left them to their own devixes. They seem to have faired well. The only probelm is crowding if you don't pick enough of the top bulbs....a problem I can live with! So much eaier than regular onions.


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## Paquebot (May 10, 2002)

Barry, with a huge number of multiplying onion varieties around, it may help to know which type you are getting. There are the tree onions, Egyptians and Catawissas, which call for one set of growing instructions. (The instructions given by Sue would be best applied to the tree onion types but only if planted as actual bulbs and not the bulbils.) There's the various topsetting white pearl onions which grow wild in the South. Then the Heritage Sweets would be somewhere between those two types. There are also the shallots and potato onions which are separate again. Finally down to the non-bulbing multipliers such as I-itoi. You'll find all of the above in my gardens!

Martin


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## twind59 (Jan 6, 2005)

Thanks for the info Sue and Martin. These are potato onions. I'm hoping that I can grow enough to use for myself over the coming winter with enough left for spring planting.
Barry


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## suelandress (May 10, 2002)

LOL I don't even know what I have....they were sold as "walking onions"


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## Paquebot (May 10, 2002)

Thanks for the laugh, Sue! Walking onions indeed would have been either Egyptian or Catawissa tree onions. Those are the most "idiot-proof" of all the multipliers as you can not accidentally kill them, one must be deliberate in order to do so!

Barry, potato onions are a different story. For one thing, they have always been the only long-keeper that can be grown in the South. They'll last a year if need be. And there's probably a good reason why a northerner wouldn't know how to grow them. It's because they are not commonly grown in the North for various reasons. One is that we can grow much bigger long-keeping onions without all of the extra work involved. And, they are not very winter-hardy. I lost mine during the winter of 2003-2004 despite mulch and had to start over. Thus early spring planting is advised for the northern zones. 

For planting, go with a minimum of 8" spacing although up to a foot is better if you have the space. The leaves will be growing out at angles from the base rather than up like an ordinary onion. Hence they need plenty of elbow room. Plant the bulbs with the tips just barely covered. Bulb growth and division will take place right at soil level so you will end up looking down into a "nest" of onions as they mature.

When the plants have finished their growth, the leaves will die and dry up. Then it's time to lift and cure the bulbs. Curing is simply spreading them in a shady but well-ventilated area for several weeks. After that, they will last for a year. 

Also, there is never a guarantee as to what the results will be. Normally they will divide to produce up to 8 or 9 bulbs. Sometimes they fail to divide and just become a much larger bulb. They will never produce seeds or bulbils so you must save the smaller ones for planting back each spring.

Good luck!

Martin


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## twind59 (Jan 6, 2005)

Thanks Martin! You mentioned growing bigger onions in the north without the extra work. Can you give me some examples? I tried a variety of onion last year from seed...it was called "Candy". I started the seeds indoors early in the spring and transplanted to the garden when it warmed up. They didn't amount to much. It was a learning experience, I guess!
Barry


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## Paquebot (May 10, 2002)

Barry, you hi-jacked your own thread so I suppose it's OK to change the topic to regular onions!

There are a number of long-day onion varieties which will store well. Big Daddy, Mars, Copra, Sweet Sandwich, and First Edition are 5 offered by Dixondale Farms and which store for 8 months or more. The common red and yellow set onions will also easily last that long and have been around for 100 years. 

You quite probably didn't do anything wrong in order to not have any decent Candy harvest. In Wisconsin and Michigan, last year was terrible for onions. Too much rain at the wrong time caused at least a 50% less than usual harvest here. I often think that drought summers are actually better since the water can then be better controlled. Candy is one which does better in warmer and dryer areas and doesn't like wet conditions.

Martin


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## athome in SD (Oct 5, 2003)

Isnt homesteading today just wonderful!!

I have been gardening for years and yet I read these
posts and feel like a newbee. Which is wonderful by
the way, I love learning!

So back to this post-

are multiplier onions what we call green onions
here in the midwest??

And is we are straying to regular onions, ok maybe i will
just start a new thread and ask that question.

How do you store multiplier onions so that you have them
after summer? Or can you do that at all??

Christina 
athome in South Dakota


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## twind59 (Jan 6, 2005)

Thanks Martin,
I'm getting the feeling that perhaps I just started my seeds too late in the year. While it seems to me that multiplier onions will be easier for me, I think I would still like to try onions from seed....just for kicks. Do you know exactly how early one should start onion seeds indoors for planting in zone 5?
Thanks
Barry



Paquebot said:


> Barry, you hi-jacked your own thread so I suppose it's OK to change the topic to regular onions!
> 
> There are a number of long-day onion varieties which will store well. Big Daddy, Mars, Copra, Sweet Sandwich, and First Edition are 5 offered by Dixondale Farms and which store for 8 months or more. The common red and yellow set onions will also easily last that long and have been around for 100 years.
> 
> ...


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## Paquebot (May 10, 2002)

Early to mid February is the best time for starting onions from seed in Zone 5. Best results would be to have the plants be 8 to 10 weeks old at transplanting time. 

Martin


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## twind59 (Jan 6, 2005)

Thanks Martin,
In the past few days I've done a lot of internet searching and found a picture of these potato onions...very interesting! I can't wait to try them. From what I've read and seen, I would think this would be a very desirable and popular onion. Perhaps I am still smarting from my previous failure with onion seeds. It will have to be next year before I try onions from seed again, but I'll do it!
Barry


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## bowdonkey (Oct 6, 2007)

I'm presently looking into planting shallots or potato onions this spring. Where is a good source and what type would grow best in a cold zone 3? I so enjoyed the walking onions last year [care free] I thought these may be fun to try also.


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## Marcia in MT (May 11, 2002)

Shallots: we find that here on the high plains (nominal z4), they do not winter well, even with a good mulch. So we always plant them in the spring. 

The ones from seed grow HUGE, compared to the ones from sets. Also, the ones from seed tend to divide under one skin, while the set-grown ones divide to make a shallot "nest." I believe that Martin once said these are actually 2 different types of shallots.


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## Paquebot (May 10, 2002)

The two types of shallots are true shallots and hybrid onions which resemble shallots. True shallots don't often bloom and when they do they seldom produce seeds. Those can only be propagated from bulbs. If a large bulb is planted, one usually gets a lot of small bulbs. If a small bulb is planted, one usually gets fewer but larger bulbs. Jung's has Golden and Holland Red and can be planted as soon as the ground may be worked. Those available from seed are always hybrids and each seed will only produce a single bulb. They must be started well in advance of planting time just as one would do with onions from seed. And the time to start them is in February and should already be emerging now.

Martin


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## derm (Aug 6, 2009)

bowdonkey said:


> I'm presently looking into planting shallots or potato onions this spring. Where is a good source and what type would grow best in a cold zone 3? I so enjoyed the walking onions last year [care free] I thought these may be fun to try also.


Me too. Anyone have a seed source? I love the walking onions and these look perfect to try.


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## thejerseylilly (Feb 17, 2011)

I was just given some shallots to plant last weekend. They are some that have been saved and saved over the years from my husbands grandparents. But were given to us by an aunt. 

I remember some kind of onion making the seed things on top (bloom) When they done this...Granny would save those to plant next year. Are those shallots? or am I thinking of another variety? She's gone now...and I can't ask her.


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## Paquebot (May 10, 2002)

derm said:


> Me too. Anyone have a seed source? I love the walking onions and these look perfect to try.


Jung's has both shallot sets and seeds.

www.jungseed.com/dc.asp?c1=Shallots&c=609 



thejerseylilly said:


> I remember some kind of onion making the seed things on top (bloom) When they done this...Granny would save those to plant next year. Are those shallots? or am I thinking of another variety? She's gone now...and I can't ask her.


They would have been onions, not shallots.

Martin


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## thejerseylilly (Feb 17, 2011)

This is very similar to what she had.....

http://dirthappy.blogspot.com/2009/10/plant-seed-giving-best-gift-of-all.html

third picture down....where it shows the "bulbettes" She always called them shallots after planting these, and harvesting them to eat. 

This website refers to them as "walking onions"

??? And what I was given look pretty much like this...some in clusters like that.


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## Paquebot (May 10, 2002)

thejerseylilly said:


> This is very similar to what she had.....
> 
> http://dirthappy.blogspot.com/2009/10/plant-seed-giving-best-gift-of-all.html
> 
> ...


Walking onions don't produce seeds. But they are onions nevertheless except that they don't make edible bulbs. The topsets, incidentally, can be peeled and used for pearl onions or cooking.

Martin


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## bowdonkey (Oct 6, 2007)

Thank you all. One more question, I take it that up here in cold country shallots and multiplier onions both must be taken in for the winter and replanted in the spring. So, if you had the choice which would you plant? And why if you care to explain.


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## Limon (Aug 25, 2010)

Paquebot said:


> )There's the various topsetting white pearl onions which grow wild in the South.
> Martin


Martin, can you recommend any varieties of these? I'd love to grow some pearl onions if they'll do well in my area. I was given some multiplier onions last fall by a cousin who didn't know what type they were. They look like Egyptian onions from the pictures I've seen.


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## Paquebot (May 10, 2002)

bowdonkey said:


> Thank you all. One more question, I take it that up here in cold country shallots and multiplier onions both must be taken in for the winter and replanted in the spring. So, if you had the choice which would you plant? And why if you care to explain.


Topsetting multipliers are hardy well into Zone 3, shallots usually are not. Which to grow depends upon what you want to use them for. Walking onions are grown mostly for their green leaves whereas shallots are grown exclusively for their bulbs.

Martin


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## Paquebot (May 10, 2002)

Limon said:


> Martin, can you recommend any varieties of these? I'd love to grow some pearl onions if they'll do well in my area. I was given some multiplier onions last fall by a cousin who didn't know what type they were. They look like Egyptian onions from the pictures I've seen.


The quote that you cited was in reference to various strains of what may have been domestic at one time but now only found growing wild and treated as a weed. It was the subject of considerable discussion on another forum and left a lot of surprised people saying "Aha!" It's too long to detail so I'll shorten it.

Pearl onions, as we know them, are small varieties which are grown from seed and planted at a certain time of year so as to get to a certain size and go dormant due to day length. We know that pearl onions have been mentioned in Deep South recipes for perhaps 200 years. However, growing onions from seeds was only developed just over 100 years ago. Since the Egyptian tree onions weren't down there to use the topsets, had to be something different. It took an early HT member in Mobile to supply me with the answer. She knew that a small topsetting onion grew wild but mostly considered as a weed. However, when not crowded, they could produce a bulb the size of a quarter. Shortly after, a gardener in Texas sent some that she had. Hers were slightly different but same size. But when the topsets were planted here, their period of growth was very short and quickly bolted to topsets. Doesn't matter if planted thick or off by themselves as the results were the same. Best I can get is a small marble size. And why is that? They are very subject to length of day and night and will develop usable bulbs only in a narrow strip through the South. 

Martin


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## Limon (Aug 25, 2010)

I figured it was going to be something like that. Oh, well. Between the Egyptian onions, garlic, leeks, bunching onions and all the seeds you got for me, I should be set in the onion department anyway.


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## K.B. (Sep 7, 2012)

I posted this link in another thread, but then found this thread on multiplier onions where it is more appropriate...

Here is a link to a person's site in UT that is doing breeding work on Potato Onions. He is offering both seed and bulb's last I checked:

https://sites.google.com/site/kellysgarden/potato-onions

A friend sent me some seed from his potato onions which flowered (rare) this past season, so I will be trying them out this coming year.


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## Paquebot (May 10, 2002)

Kelly is growing them in an intermediate day zone. Gardeners in the PNW consider yellow potato onions as shallots since they don't get much bigger than an inch. There's also one flaw in Kelly's breeding in that alliums are easily crossed. Isolation of a mile is suggested for pure seed. Even topsetting onions which produce no seeds may cross with common onions as the pollen is compatible. Obtaining a white onion from yellow parents is a good indication that there is another variety involved somewhere in the lineage. I've been 10 years roguing out red and white bulbs from what is supposed to be a yellow variety. No red sets this year but a few white showed up again.

Martin


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## K.B. (Sep 7, 2012)

It would indeed be interesting if common A. cepa had pollinated with his yellow Potato onions. It is hard to know for sure what it is he has going on, but from the pictures, he seems to have maintained the "multiplying" habit in his stock that he is growing out.

I'm not sure what to think regarding the hypothesis that virus buildup is the cause of the smaller size in the current commercial variety of potato onions. Whatever the cause, it is encouraging to me that his are much larger since we are at about the same latitude (I am just a few degrees north of his location).

So long as they maintain the multiplying habit and can be divided asexually, I think he has potential for an significant achievement.


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## Paquebot (May 10, 2002)

All common onions retain the multiplying/dividing habit. Plant any of them back and you'll get as many as 3 or 4 flower stalks from a single bulb. One reason why potato onions fell out of favor is that a single bulb often is comprised of 2 or more divisions divided by a thin hard skin. Much preferred are those which can be sliced whole rather than in halves. 

All alliums are also true biennials despite the fact that some may bolt in one year. It is dependent upon the number of daylight hours where they are grown and not any USDA hardiness zone. This thread has a good example with the original pearl onions of the South. Easily the size of a quarter in Alabama and Texas but useless in Wisconsin as what we get isn't much bigger than a pea. Same reason why 1015Y Texas Suppersweets max out at 2" here as versus 6" in Texas.

Martin


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## K.B. (Sep 7, 2012)

That is interesting that you can get 3 or 4 flower stalks from a single common onion bulb. I think I've only seen mine divide into 2 when I leave some for seed. May be due to the fertility of my soil, though.

Do you really think that Kelly's plants are just showing standard A cepa traits rather than the aggregatum subtype? His photos and report on his experiences seemed genuine to me, but I am just getting started with multiplying types.

One of the other reasons I am interested in the multiplying onions is that others have reported that they have a better tolerance of low fertility soil types. My native soil is quite low in organic matter and nitrogen. Some other alliums, such as garlic and leeks seem to tolerate the lower fertility, as well. I'm sure they would be larger with rich soil, but they still produce at a reasonable size without much in the way of ammendments. Bulbing onions have not done nearly as well for me.


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## siletz (Oct 5, 2010)

K.B. said:


> Here is a link to a person's site in UT that is doing breeding work on Potato Onions. He is offering both seed and bulb's last I checked:
> 
> https://sites.google.com/site/kellysgarden/potato-onions


Thanks so much KB! I had been interested in his story earlier this summer when I first was googling about potato onions. I purchased some potato onions this fall from Territorial Seed and am so excited to purchase some from him as well. Thanks so much for the heads up!


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## Paquebot (May 10, 2002)

Four stalks from a single Amish bottle onion is not uncommon. That is despite there initially being only one single set of rings early on in the mature bulb. Stuttgarter and Ebenezer planted from sets may mature, go dormant, and divide in a single season if left in the ground. 

Walking or tree onions can be found in a number of variations and for good reason. They are all crosses within their group and thus subject to expressing ancestral genes which may have been dormant for some time. Odd or mutant topset plants are again being discovered now that more people are growing them. And why not? They were originally hybrids from two different allium species.

As for what Kelly has produced, the consensus is that nobody knows what was upwind to bring the white into a variety or species which had always been yellow. If white was never in the ancestral background, no offspring would ever be white. There is full agreement that a new variety was formed but by initial hybridization followed by selective breeding.

Martin


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## K.B. (Sep 7, 2012)

It looks like Kelly also has a red variety that he is propagating out, as well. 

It will be interesting to see how his materials perform in other's gardens around the country. The seed I am currently starting originates from the yellow potato onions carried by Territorial.


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## K.B. (Sep 7, 2012)

siletz said:


> Thanks so much KB! I had been interested in his story earlier this summer when I first was googling about potato onions. I purchased some potato onions this fall from Territorial Seed and am so excited to purchase some from him as well. Thanks so much for the heads up!


Glad the link was helpful. I hope they work out for you! Depending on the results of my plants this coming season, I may try and pick some up from him next Fall if they are still available.


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## siletz (Oct 5, 2010)

KB- I purchased the potato onions from Territorial this fall as well. I had been looking into them earlier this summer because I was so tired of trying to start onions from seed each year. I had run across Kelly's site back then, but had no idea he was selling some of them this fall. So, thanks for the info. Personally, I don't care if his are not pure potato onions as long as they produce like them. I am looking at perennial onions that I can keep going. I am excited to see what I can get to grow well for me and give me a sustainable onion source year to year.


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## K.B. (Sep 7, 2012)

Sure thing - here is another link to a blog that has some nice info/pics regarding potato onions:
POTATO ONIONS! Â« Turkeysong

I definitely agree with you as far as the attractiveness of a bulbing onion that replicates itself each year without having to start from seed! I am building up a nice base of perennials crops in my orchard/garden area and am very excited about adding these types of onions. My leeks, elephant garlic (new this past summer) and regular garlic are starting to glow with all the rain and cool weather. It will be nice to see the onions joining them soon!


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## Paquebot (May 10, 2002)

siletz said:


> KB- I purchased the potato onions from Territorial this fall as well. I had been looking into them earlier this summer because I was so tired of trying to start onions from seed each year. I had run across Kelly's site back then, but had no idea he was selling some of them this fall. So, thanks for the info. Personally, I don't care if his are not pure potato onions as long as they produce like them. I am looking at perennial onions that I can keep going. I am excited to see what I can get to grow well for me and give me a sustainable onion source year to year.


What Kelly is developing is an onion which is started by seed. You can't have it both ways, growing a seed variety and not starting seeds each year. Potato onions and true shallots are the only way to get bulbing onions without planting back seed. Gardeners have had some surprises in the past 10 years when it comes to shallots. Instead of having to buy sets by the pint, they can buy packets of 1,000 seeds and be able to supply a small city in another couple years. They get a 1,000 bulbs and think that those are going to divide into at least 7,000 smaller bulbs when planted back. Doesn't work that way since the bulbs know that they started as seeds and they won't switch to another form of propagation. 

Others have bought big shallots in their local supermarkets with the idea of producing a lot more like them. Doesn't work since just about every such shallot sold now is a hybrid which was started from seed. On another forum, a gardener reported getting what would be expected but worse. She planted some nice big ones that she bought and they divided just as a normal onion should have but instead of stopping there they bolted to a seed stalk and quickly used up the bulbs. To add insult to injury, there were no seeds produced. Same gardener found some banana shallots this year and planted them with hopes that they would divide. Didn't happen as they immediately bolted. What she has since found out is that the seeds of those are quite viable and should produce the same as the parent plant as long as they weren't crossed. And that is true since banana shallots are neither onion nor shallot but echalion which is a separate species of allium. 

Martin


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## K.B. (Sep 7, 2012)

Paquebot said:


> What Kelly is developing is an onion which is started by seed. You can't have it both ways, growing a seed variety and not starting seeds each year. Potato onions and true shallots are the only way to get bulbing onions without planting back seed.
> Martin


i may not be completely understanding what you are saying, but my understanding of what Kelly is offering is both seed and bulbs which breed true to the potato onion phenotype. He shows that he has grown them out from the seed collected from potato onions, then replanted bulbs and harvested nests of potato onions several years in a row. Other than the initial seed planting to get the new varieties of "potato onions" (even if they were pollinated by another A cepa), he is not going back to seed to maintain the line, as best I can tell.


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## Paquebot (May 10, 2002)

There hasn't been enough generations yet to prove anything. The whole experiment from beginning to end has been documented in several places and I've followed it from the beginning. Those who follow the alliums know that there is much uncertainty as to even how some have come to be. Mutants show up all the time and there are even instances of common onions producing topsets as well as seeds. With Kelly, he'll have to maintain 2 separate lines. One will be propagated by bulb and the other by seed. No species of anything can flip-flop to grow one way or another strictly according to the wishes of the gardener. The large size of those produced from seed can not be maintained as a large multiple nest simply because of the inability to obtain sufficient nutrients in only a few months. No matter how few or how many bulbs are produced on a plant, there is only one single root system to support them all.

I, too, could be maintaining a new onion variety had I wished. Since the original bottle onion seeds were crossed in 2002, I could have segregated the reds and whites from the first sets produced. Since there already was a red type, there was no need to duplicate it. The variety was supposed to be an unknown yellow and that was what I wanted to preserve. The white ones would also have been unknown or unrecorded but all of those were shorter and fatter. There are white varieties similar to that so no need to "reinvent the wheel". Besides, having 2 varieties blooming at the same time would have only made matters worse. 

Martin


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## where I want to (Oct 28, 2008)

Martin- could you answer a related question re: multipliers? 
I bought a yellow multipler from Territorial Seed Three years ago. They were a dismal failure, producing some green, no bulb to speak of and most simply disappeared.
However, this year some left over root sprouted in the garlic bed and I left them, think to pull them out when I pulled the garlic. 
I was surprised to find they had produced a rosette of reasonable sized bulbs.
So why did it take three years to actually produce bulbs? How do I get them to do that every year. Do I need to put aside a bed and just leave them there indefinitely for them to produce, not replant like shallots?


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## K.B. (Sep 7, 2012)

Paquebot said:


> There hasn't been enough generations yet to prove anything.


I think his initial seeds were from about 12 years ago, and then bulbs since then. How many would be required to prove the point?


Paquebot said:


> With Kelly, he'll have to maintain 2 separate lines. One will be propagated by bulb and the other by seed. No species of anything can flip-flop to grow one way or another strictly according to the wishes of the gardener. The large size of those produced from seed can not be maintained as a large multiple nest simply because of the inability to obtain sufficient nutrients in only a few months. No matter how few or how many bulbs are produced on a plant, there is only one single root system to support them all.
> Martin


I don't think the two separate lines is possible. He has not been able to get the new strains of potato onions grown from seed that was generated 12 years ago to set seed on a year to year basis. There is no claim that seed and/or bulb is able to be switched back and forth, as of yet, that I saw.


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## Paquebot (May 10, 2002)

where I want to said:


> Martin- could you answer a related question re: multipliers?
> I bought a yellow multipler from Territorial Seed Three years ago. They were a dismal failure, producing some green, no bulb to speak of and most simply disappeared.
> However, this year some left over root sprouted in the garlic bed and I left them, think to pull them out when I pulled the garlic.
> I was surprised to find they had produced a rosette of reasonable sized bulbs.
> So why did it take three years to actually produce bulbs? How do I get them to do that every year. Do I need to put aside a bed and just leave them there indefinitely for them to produce, not replant like shallots?


Yellow multiplier is a typical potato onion. It will max out at about 2". It can be called either way, yellow multiplier or yellow potato onion or golden shallot. 







K.B. said:


> I think his initial seeds were from about 12 years ago, and then bulbs since then. How many would be required to prove the point?
> 
> I don't think the two separate lines is possible. He has not been able to get the new strains of potato onions grown from seed that was generated 12 years ago to set seed on a year to year basis. There is no claim that seed and/or bulb is able to be switched back and forth, as of yet, that I saw.


My reply was to explain to Siletz that one can not plant Kelly's variety once from seed and then never have to plant it again. It's true that Kelly's may not bloom every year and for good reason, most onions are biennials. When his experiment began, he was certain to have found the trick to get them to bloom and produce seeds. If that were true, that method would work each year but it has not. It's either still quite unstable or merely acting like a normal onion should, as a biennial. If they share the same trait as common set onions, they may not set seed until their third year. And if that is true, we then would have a good indication of what was blooming upwind to get that hybrid. 

Martin


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## K.B. (Sep 7, 2012)

Paquebot said:


> My reply was to explain to Siletz that one can not plant Kelly's variety once from seed and then never have to plant it again. It's true that Kelly's may not bloom every year and for good reason, most onions are biennials. When his experiment began, he was certain to have found the trick to get them to bloom and produce seeds. If that were true, that method would work each year but it has not. It's either still quite unstable or merely acting like a normal onion should, as a biennial. If they share the same trait as common set onions, they may not set seed until their third year. And if that is true, we then would have a good indication of what was blooming upwind to get that hybrid.
> 
> Martin


There is a disconnect here that I am not getting... if his originally sown seeds have been producing new bulbs asexually each year thereafter for 10+ years, it seems convincing. Clearly not biennial behavior...

Just have to wait and see how his and other's experiences play out. It would be good to get some of his seeds into someone like your hands who has experience with many different types of alliums.


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## sdnapier (Aug 13, 2010)

Paquebot said:


> Barry, with a huge number of multiplying onion varieties around, it may help to know which type you are getting. There are the tree onions, Egyptians and Catawissas, which call for one set of growing instructions. (The instructions given by Sue would be best applied to the tree onion types but only if planted as actual bulbs and not the bulbils.) There's the various topsetting white pearl onions which grow wild in the South. Then the Heritage Sweets would be somewhere between those two types. There are also the shallots and potato onions which are separate again. Finally down to the non-bulbing multipliers such as I-itoi. You'll find all of the above in my gardens!
> 
> Martin


Hello Martin,

Could you tell me the name of the top setting white pearl onion. I live in southeast Virginia and would love to grow some.

Sheryl


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## Paquebot (May 10, 2002)

sdnapier said:


> Hello Martin,
> 
> Could you tell me the name of the top setting white pearl onion. I live in southeast Virginia and would love to grow some.
> 
> Sheryl


They have no name. They apparently were only grown in the very deep South. The first that I heard of were found near Mobile. The person who found them had previously been an early HT member. She sent up around a half-pound ranging from 5Â¢ to 25Â¢ size. They were dormant and as round as a marble. Some were eaten and they were definitely onions. When planted back the following spring, they quickly bolted and produced tiny topsets similar to a known wild variety. Topsets were planted back with expectations of immediately seeing growth. Nothing showed up until just before frost in the fall. When those were left to winter over, bolted right away in the spring. 

Most alliums are very sensitive to day length and those are a perfect example of one which is sensitive to the extreme. Same applied to same type found at about the same latitude in South Texas. Slightly smaller circumference and not quite as round but about same overall weight. Planted back, same results. They are not any known wild alliums and not A. canadense, which is the only native topsetter, nor A. vineale, which is European origin. 

They are probably not in any danger of being lost but definitely keep a low profile wherever they are growing. If they did some back into home gardens, draw a line from Florida-Georgia border to Austin, TX to find where they can be grown.

Want to go crazy trying to sort out the alliums? You'll find them all at:
M.M.P.N.D. - Sorting Allium names

Martin


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## bowdonkey (Oct 6, 2007)

Ttt, good info here for those planting shallots. A couple years back I purchased a gold or yellow shallot in the garden dept at a hardware store. I have lots now and if need be in the future it may be the only onion I plant. Good flavor, great storage. The only drawback and it's a small one is it takes a little more time to peel enough cup for cup as onions. Very easy to propagate, like planting onion sets. Try em, you'll like em.


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## H. Ellenburg (Jan 17, 2005)

Looking for some potato onion sets. Does anybody know where I can get any?


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## Paquebot (May 10, 2002)

To get the biggest shallots or potato onions, plant the smallest ones back. Smaller sets make fewer but larger bulbs. Larger sets produce more but smaller bulbs. 

Martin


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## bowdonkey (Oct 6, 2007)

Paquebot said:


> To get the biggest shallots or potato onions, plant the smallest ones back. Smaller sets make fewer but larger bulbs. Larger sets produce more but smaller bulbs.
> 
> Martin


I got quite a few to work with now. Next year I'll be segregating the sizes closer and cutting some back to 3-4 " long during mid summer to see if it really does effect bulb size. These are shallots now. Can potato onions be left to overwinter in a cold zone 3? I know the shallots can't be.


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## Paquebot (May 10, 2002)

Shallots and potato onions have the same growing requirements. If one won't winter over, neither will the other.

Martin


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## bowdonkey (Oct 6, 2007)

Thanks Martin.


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## KIT.S (Oct 8, 2008)

Well, several suppliers are sold out, but potato onions are being sold on Ebay. I'm very tempted. Thanks for bumping this article. We were talking about potato onions just last week.
Kit


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## Paquebot (May 10, 2002)

KIT.S said:


> Well, several suppliers are sold out, but potato onions are being sold on Ebay. I'm very tempted. Thanks for bumping this article. We were talking about potato onions just last week.
> Kit


If you can find golden shallots, they are so identical that one can sell them as shallots one year and potato onions the next and probably be right both times. 

Martin


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## cathleenc (Aug 16, 2007)

I bought seed for potato onions this spring and started a few, got 3 bulbs per seeded plant. Looking forward to planting the bulbs next spring!


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## siletz (Oct 5, 2010)

KIT.S said:


> Well, several suppliers are sold out, but potato onions are being sold on Ebay. I'm very tempted. Thanks for bumping this article. We were talking about potato onions just last week.
> Kit


Territorial Seed still has some. This is what we grew this year. 
http://www.territorialseed.com/product/1326
Mine only grew the size of a golf ball, but I like the idea of a sustainable onion source so will grow them again and see how it goes.


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## Paquebot (May 10, 2002)

The Yellow Multiplier being sold by Territorial is just that, a yellow multiplier which is actually a shallot. It is not the potato onion which is more commonly grown in the South.

Martin


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## a'ightthen (Mar 17, 2012)

Paquebot said:


> Yellow multiplier is a typical potato onion. It will max out at about 2". It can be called either way, yellow multiplier or yellow potato onion or golden shallot.
> Martin


 Please say that it ain't so Sir!

I don't get by much anymore for the hrs worked but I do sit with Golden Shallots from Jung's as grown this year and now I have Yellow Potato Onion from Southern Exposure that I have waited on all year.

Are they the same? That won't be cool at all.


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## Paquebot (May 10, 2002)

a'ightthen said:


> Please say that it ain't so Sir!
> 
> I don't get by much anymore for the hrs worked but I do sit with Golden Shallots from Jung's as grown this year and now I have Yellow Potato Onion from Southern Exposure that I have waited on all year.
> 
> Are they the same? That won't be cool at all.


It's so confusing as potato onions and shallots are the same thing since potato onions ARE shallots and both are multipliers. Yellow Multiplier, as a distinct variety, is virtually identical to White Multiplier except for color. (Note that Territorial does NOT call it a potato onion.) Size and growth pattern are the same but everyone agrees that that white one is not the illusive white potato onion which may or may not exist. If that can't be a potato onion then neither can a yellow version of the same species. I grew yellow potato onions for several years back in the 1990s until I lost them while wrongly thinking that they would survive the winter. Replaced them with golden shallots which were identical as near as I could determine. (The link to a complete listing of all allium species is no longer active or you could see exactly where each one belongs.)

Started over with goldens again this year to get proper planting stock for next year. Planted 5 big ones and now have close to 50 small ones. Those should produce large bulbs next year.

Martin


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## a'ightthen (Mar 17, 2012)

Paquebot said:


> It's so confusing as potato onions and shallots are the same thing since potato onions ARE shallots and both are multipliers. Yellow Multiplier, as a distinct variety, is virtually identical to White Multiplier except for color. (Note that Territorial does NOT call it a potato onion.) Size and growth pattern are the same but everyone agrees that that white one is not the illusive white potato onion which may or may not exist. If that can't be a potato onion then neither can a yellow version of the same species. I grew yellow potato onions for several years back in the 1990s until I lost them while wrongly thinking that they would survive the winter. Replaced them with golden shallots which were identical as near as I could determine. (The link to a complete listing of all allium species is no longer active or you could see exactly where each one belongs.)
> 
> Started over with goldens again this year to get proper planting stock for next year. Planted 5 big ones and now have close to 50 small ones. Those should produce large bulbs next year.
> 
> Martin


 Most interesting - Thanks.

I'll admit that I have been taken before and this may be yet another lesson that I cared not to learn in the end.

It's but a game eh? Folks swear by the one .... others claim defiantly against it.

So it is .... those of us that trial them accept that which performs and disregards those that do not produce.

Growing one in duplication, but of different names, tends to tick us off.

I'll plant them all and discern the results here.

Thanks


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## Paquebot (May 10, 2002)

Wikipedia entry covers it well. The whole works is Allium cepa (Aggregatum Group). "This group contains shallots and potato onions, also referred to as multiplier onions." That paragraph closes with: "However, intermediate forms exist." When involved in that group, there is nothing black and white. See part 7.2 of the following entry: 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allium_cepa

Martin


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## K.B. (Sep 7, 2012)

I received the ordering info for this seasons potato onion selections from Kelly Winterton today:

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1KAPM3_0PihxC9JbENkwIGM5rJx9wzJnb8rqlD09wW7A/edit


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