# Why all the doom and gloom?



## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

When did prepping for emergencies become all about the sky is falling, all the time?

I have always thought it is great to be prepared and educated on how to look after yourself during times of emergency but lately this forum seems to be going to the dark side.

What is the point of living if you always are expecting the worst to happen? In fact it seems like a lot of the posts here are even hoping for it to happen.

How many are prepping just in case of the occasional emergency?

How many are prepping to prepare for world disaster?


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## Laura Zone 5 (Jan 13, 2010)

painterswife said:


> When did prepping for emergencies become all about the sky is falling, all the time?
> 
> I have always thought it is great to be prepared and educated on how to look after yourself during times of emergency but lately this forum seems to be going to the dark side.
> 
> ...


I live like today is my last day on earth, but prep just in case, tomorrow comes.
I approach this whole 'prep thing' differently.
But there is a lot of great information and ideas that I would have NEVER thought of on my own, right here in this forum.


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## seedspreader (Oct 18, 2004)

Maybe you've just not read enough because I see plenty of posts saying that folks are prepping for what's most likely to happen, first a weather event for most, then a job loss, and further down a CHTF or TEOTWAWKI type event.

Do some folks HOPE for a TEOTWAWKI event? Sure, some do. I think for a lot of those folks they feel it would be validation of their lifestyle, but many, if not most here, can look out the window and see a world of events that surround us currently.

Are you suggesting that "everything is as it's always been"?

Do you see the Financial Crisis that is at our door? It will be, but by the Grace of God that we aren't affected by all the printing of money, the failure because of debt loads, etc.

I see a lot of good advice and people, who are awake, discussing world events.

What are YOU prepping for?

You can add your voice and talk everyone back away from the edge, so we can all be sensible...

What do your preps look like? What do you have on hand? 

Join in and tell us because other than that, your post looks like a complaint about people who disagree with your vision of the world more than anything else.

Most of us have no problem living and don't go about worried a bit about everything... because we are prepared for it.


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## Explorer (Dec 2, 2003)

I agree SS, good answer.


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## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

I love the ideas and have always been reading. My preps are minuscule in comparison to most on here. I don't feel that sense of doom and gloom and I definitively don't worry about anything long term( more than a couple of months)

As for talking some back from the edge, I don't think I have the power or the time, they are already free falling.

Complaint about different views? No just trying to understand how some can live their lives in constant worry.


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## Ernie (Jul 22, 2007)

painterswife said:


> Complaint about different views? No just trying to understand how some can live their lives in constant worry.


You're judging our entire lifestyles based on what we post here?

You don't even see a fraction of what goes on in my life, what I say throughout the day, or how I interact with my friends and family. Yet because I keep an eye on events you think I'm living my life in a state of constant worry?


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## therunbunch (Oct 5, 2009)

Maybe not worrying so much about everyone else worrying would help? I have to take a step back, myself, sometimes and quit worrying about how everyone else is living. Afterall, I only have to worry about me and my own... and believe me that's enough!


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## AverageJo (Sep 24, 2010)

Everyone's idea of what the future holds is different. Just as different as their level of preps. There are some that are expecting the worse, and hoping for it, and they live their lives looking over their shoulders. The other end of the spectrum are those that don't prep at all and only see glorious roses, otherwise known as the sheeple. I'm somewhere in the middle I guess. I read and hear about our financial situation. I'm a bit nervous about it, but not to the point that I think about it every day or read Ernie's daily post. My more immediate needs are to survive the down economy and eek out a living here on the farm as there aren't any jobs in the local towns. I'm glad I'm prepared with a bit of groceries and plenty of garden seeds and plenty of animals to feed my family. My preps otherwise are in knowledge. I know how to can, and to take care of minor injuries. And I have the basic knowledge on major injuries as well. But as long as I can get to a doctor to set a bone or stitch up a cut, I will. Will we be prepared if TSHTF or TEOTWAWKI? Better than some, not as well as others. Only time will tell, but I'm not going to prep like it will happen tomorrow. I don't have the funds for that.

Ernie, I had to question your response. She didn't point fingers at those that are in a constant state of worry, yet you responded as if it was a direct hit. Did you see yourself in her posting? I, for one, am glad that you're on this forum and are opening my eyes as to what is happening, but I can't do much about it and there are more immediate needs for me and my family. But THANK YOU for all you do.


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## AngieM2 (May 10, 2002)

Actually - there has been more of the news dooms posts recently than in the past. So, I can see where painterswife was asking the question. I was having a few selected mods double check the forum to see if they were getting the newly higher percentage of news doom posts, and maybe some new information comes out and all of them are not quite as doom as first presented.

I to believe that we need more posts about surviving the job loss, the broken arm and having to work by yourself, and tornados, floods, wild fires, and longer than normal winter, or sooner than expected very high temps early on.

Then I look and the job loss, is one of the ramifications of many of these newer news posts.

On other thing I've been noticing, is that if anyone tries to show more than one point of view on a topic, they get extreme results, almost rude almost deleted, results. 

I would suggest on the news events - please google the event to get a rounded view of the event - it could be worse than either side posts here, or better, or somewhere in between.

This forum is getting less friendly and that is distressing me very much - 
It would be bad if this is started to be viewed as "GC Lite" as one person said in another thread. 

You can fix this, or I'm working on figuring out what I have to do to make it friendly and helpful, not growling at ones that some of you consider interlopers and might have a bit less doom and gloom viewpoint of the news.

So, painterswife - I understand.

There is Survival and Emergency Prep, or End of the World Central.


I hope we can prepare to get past the accidents, job losses, and weather events - and the world/national/local if they come to pass.


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## AngieM2 (May 10, 2002)

Ernie said:


> You're judging our entire lifestyles based on what we post here?
> 
> You don't even see a fraction of what goes on in my life, what I say throughout the day, or how I interact with my friends and family. Yet because I keep an eye on events you think I'm living my life in a state of constant worry?


She said some of us.


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## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

Ernie said:


> You're judging our entire lifestyles based on what we post here?
> 
> You don't even see a fraction of what goes on in my life, what I say throughout the day, or how I interact with my friends and family. Yet because I keep an eye on events you think I'm living my life in a state of constant worry?





therunbunch said:


> Maybe not worrying so much about everyone else worrying would help? I have to take a step back, myself, sometimes and quit worrying about how everyone else is living. Afterall, I only have to worry about me and my own... and believe me that's enough!


I am not worrying, I am trying to understand. 

I don't know know how all of your lives are spent, though from the amount of posting and reading some of you do I don't know how you get much else done.


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## AngieM2 (May 10, 2002)

some of us live online. and work at a computer so popping over is easy. and often


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## AngieM2 (May 10, 2002)

seedspreader said:


> Maybe you've just not read enough because I see plenty of posts saying that folks are prepping for what's most likely to happen, first a weather event for most, then a job loss, and further down a CHTF or TEOTWAWKI type event.
> 
> Do some folks HOPE for a TEOTWAWKI event? Sure, some do. I think for a lot of those folks they feel it would be validation of their lifestyle, but many, if not most here, can look out the window and see a world of events that surround us currently.
> 
> ...



Good post, SS


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## Tracy Rimmer (May 9, 2002)

painterswife said:


> I don't know know how all of your lives are spent, though from the amount of posting and reading some of you do I don't know how you get much else done.


LOL! I guess it can seem that way! 

I, and I suspect many others here, work on my computer for about half the day, throughout the day -- I have HT running in the background, and checking new posts, etc., takes about five minutes four or five times a day. I'm on more in the morning, because in the afternoon I'm out doing things -- but I have been on more lately, because between the rain (still) and the bugs, it's hard to be outside.

Just understand that many of us who "appear" to be on HT quite a lot are multi-taskers who have three other windows open and work best with the distraction of HT running in the background.


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## therunbunch (Oct 5, 2009)

I think another thing that makes this an issue is that we all plan differently and interpret the news differently. I know there has always been lots of bad stuff in the news, however some of the events going on now impact my family unlike some of the events of the past. With unemployment and things like that, people are starting to GET done and stay done.. and unfortunately the bad news is capsizing the hope vessels we once had. Maybe more people are starting to pay attention or understand news better? Many are waking up realize they are NOT as prepped as they'd suddenly like to be (that's us) and so on. I hope that helps in some way, I re-read my first post and it sounded snarkier to me so I apologize if it came off that way. I'm a worrier by birth (sigh) so sometimes I really have to turn off the news, quit reading stuff, etc so that it doesn't overflow into my own life. 

On a lighter note.. perhaps we DO need a "The Sky is Falling!!!" forum lol.. we could stockpile our paranoia there and be able to discuss scarier topics without worrying those that don't want to be worried by it. There has to be a place somewhere here where people can discuss things/current events that are troubling without upsetting everyone else.


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## shanzone2001 (Dec 3, 2009)

I imagine it is because this is a place to discuss becoming prepared for potential negative situations so it can be unsettling at times.
Do we want bad things to happen? I don't, but I realize that they do so it is my responsibility to be prepared for my children.

Planning for disaster is probably the lowest end of the spectrum when it comes to doing something fun.

ETA I have heard many people on this forum, in the news, and in my regular social circle say that they have a bad feeling and they are listening to their gut to become prepared for a potentially life changing experience. It seems that there is a general uneasy feeling and people are responding with a sense of urgency.


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## Ernie (Jul 22, 2007)

Maybe we should go to the pet forum and ask why those people's lives seem to be consumed with their pets. Or the beekeeping forum and ask if all they ever think about is bees.


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## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

Ernie said:


> Maybe we should go to the pet forum and ask why those people's lives seem to be consumed with their pets. Or the beekeeping forum and ask if all they ever think about is bees.


Are you taking this as a personal attack? If you are that would be a perfect example of what I am trying to understand.

This is not about you but a general attitude that seems to be escalating here.

I grew up in the time where "the bomb' was a forgone conclusion and we expected to be under nuclear attack and some point in our lives. A small portion built bunkers and some just went on with their lives. It feels like this forum has turned from going on with our lives to how many bunkers can we build. 
Maybe it is a new generation that is trying to deal with the first run of bad luck they have seen? I don't know but I am trying to understand.


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## Callieslamb (Feb 27, 2007)

I don't take it as gloom and doom. I take it as information. What others are experiencing and feeling helps me keep vigilant at my post. Those that need sunshine and roses probabaly won't be happy down here. I go to Countryside Families for my sunshine fix. It's a balance. 

The older I get the more interesting the cycles of prosperity and poverty are. Times are tough out there and people are feeling it. Some of what we read here is likely an emotional response to those feelings. I feel a greater appreciation for what my parents must have felt in the 70's.


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## tytglovett (Aug 27, 2010)

I read daily, but seldom post. I am thankful for this forum as it has helped me better know how to prepare. I see so many things going on in our world today and I have to wonder how so many people still seem to think that these problems won't affect them. As new as I am to prepping what I have done so far gives me peace and the knowledge I am gaining will help my family weather the hard times that are coming. I have noticed that on this forum as well as IRL people who do not agree with prepping ridicule it. I have stopped trying to get friends to wake up and now only discuss ways to be prepared with friends that are on board with it and my DH. I just wanted to say thank you to all who post here regularly. You have helped me so much. Being prepared helped my family during the tornadoes that affected N. Alabama during April. I had plenty of food on hand to feed my family and many others during the storms. Even the doomer news is helpful because I really think it is an accurate picture of our world today. Sorry for the long post but I wanted to give a picture of what I see when I come to this forum because several posts here lately seem to just be to antagonize or make fun of the prepper point of view and it confuses me as to why they would want to post in an area that they don't agree with just to tell everyone they were wrong and silly for prepping because everything in the world is just fine??? I hope this is not offensive I'm just posting what I have seen lately.


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## belladulcinea (Jun 21, 2006)

Thanks Seedspreader for your insight! 

Painterswife, you asked a question and Ernie is answering it from his life's point of view. 

And if it seems some of us are on here all the time, the above posts about some of us working online is valid. I make a portion of my income from working online, coming here through the day to break up the time. 

We went through the 70s and then my dh changed jobs with a 40% cut in pay, I prep now for all types of things so we can keep humming along hopefully.


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## 7thswan (Nov 18, 2008)

painterswife, I live this way. Living has taught me that something "is up". I had an awful childhood, lived off-grid thru the 70's and threw myself into the fan, when I left my ex-husband. Fall of 2008, the properties new dh and I had started a steep slide,then it all crashed along with dhs health. He got injured at work,had surgerys,lawsuits and we were still able to eat and provide for our animals. In 2008, I saw the person that would end up being our President, I knew if his policies/beliefs were to be enacted, it was going to be bad. It's all coming true. I'm not living in fear, but using my instincts.


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## Ohio Rusty (Jan 18, 2008)

Today on the radio coming into work was a broadcast named 'Our Financial Ticking Time Bomb', talking about or economy, the banking system and monetary system ready to implode. 

Doom and gloom have become mainstream ..... with constant talk on radio and TV of the bad economy, terrible job market, the constant falling Wall street market, European nations on the edge of monetary catastrophe, higher food prices and killer gas prices ruining families and businesses ......

The doom and gloom here is no more than what the constant media streaming is sending out to the masses ..... We are just preparing for any event than could come our way. It might be a small event where we need a lantern and candles, or a greater even where we need food, water and generators. It is hard to be completely prepared for any and every event as there are unforeseen events that occur you didn't expect. That is the great thing about prepping for self-reliancy -- you can figure out other ways and methods to get you thru. knowing you have prepared with what you have, whether it's alot of a little is a comfort factor. 

Ohio Rusty ><>


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## Guest (Jun 15, 2011)

Ernie said:


> You're judging our entire lifestyles based on what we post here?
> 
> You don't even see a fraction of what goes on in my life, what I say throughout the day, or how I interact with my friends and family. Yet because I keep an eye on events you think I'm living my life in a state of constant worry?


 In this forum that is the image of yourself that you project.

As for the original post these things are cyclical. They come and go.

We do have folks who dote on the end of the world stuff. And we have a very few who act like they want it to happen. Here anyway. I think they'd be scared spitless if it were to really happen.

Most do not. And to be clear I don't think Ernie wants it to happen either.

But it really is a matter of what you choose to focus on. I have taken myself to skipping over the doomier stuff. Life is too short to spend much time on it.

Get prepped, stay prepped, then get on with a life worth living. This is just the Internet and one fact about it has never changed and never likely will. You must sift, sift, sift to find what you want. For every valuable nugget you have to shovel a lot of country rock. Even the best websites and forums are like that.

Do what you need to do, but don't ever take this stuff too seriously. Otherwise you're back into living to prep instead of prepping to live and that is no way to live.


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## Brokeneck (Mar 1, 2011)

My personal reasons are pretty broad, I love the lifestyle of being dependent on myself and family, I enjoy the time I get with mother nature, and you never know what may happen in your day to day lives let alone what could happen to us as a family, town, county, state, country. 
My prepping is paying off today, I own a mid size construction company. I have always maintained close to 45 employees. Today we are at 18 employees. The work we usually bid used to be between 3 to 4 competing contractors for the job. Last bid we had on a mid size project (around $730K) we bid against 23 other contractors. Needless to say we didnt get the job. Work in our area is getting harder to come by. Also getting paid is harder than ever. I have never had so many liens against jobs in my life. I havent had a paycheck in almost 6 weeks. I have always made sure my people have been paid before myself. Their families are my responsibility. I am staring bankrupcy in the face...... Trying like crazy to stay afloat. I have had this business for 13 years and it's never been tougher. I work a few nights a week cleaning and mowing forclosed properties for a friend of mine who is a realtor. I also do display fireworks pretty much every weekend for towns and cities around me. Thats how I keep a little money flowing for my family. If I didnt have food stored during the good times for the bad times I would probably be asking for aid from the state. Pretty sick feeling in my stomache most days. Calls to people that owe me money continue to go unanswered, messages unreturned. The whole nation is hurting right now and ya gotta wonder just what would it take to send it spiraling out of control....... Thats why there is probably such a feeling of doom and gloom in the air of the forum..... Some people are able to see outside their current living room window and into the lives of growing masses of people in the same boat as myself. The number of people like me grows every day. Businesses go belly up, a childs leg is broken and a parent must stay home from work, a tornado devestates a town, a bank closes it's doors, a mother cries because she cant feed her children. How can someone try to look through rosie colored glasses while all this happens to someone every day! Thats why I prepare.........
Brokeneck


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## Tracy Rimmer (May 9, 2002)

Geez, Brokeneck -- I wish you were here! We have several local construction companies, and *ALL* are booked two years out. I need a new roof, and I can't get one. No one has the time. There is a lady a few miles away moved here from the city to open a B&B in a big old century home -- she can't open because regulations say she has to have a fire escape from the second and third floors, and she can't get anyone to build it for her -- everyone is booked solid.

We have one electrician and one plumber in the ENTIRE municipality. We are GASPING for tradespeople here!


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## stamphappy (Jul 29, 2010)

This IS the forum where I come to discuss the doom & gloom. 

I'm not going to sit a spell with my neighbors and talk about it and then they will hear about my preps. I'm not going to talk to my co-workers and have them show up on my door step. Only select people know of our preps. YOU are some of those people. S&EP is where I come to discuss the issues that are important to me without everyone thinking I'm a tinfoil hat wearer. 

Look around you, read the paper, watch the news. The media, who has been trying to cover up where we are headed, can't cover it up anymore. There are sheeple everywhere and even THEY are waking up. 

I come to S&EP, talk about what worries me, then get off the computer and go live my life. 

I feel that if a person doesn't like the doom & gloom posts, they do not have to read them. I for one enjoy haviing conversations with others about issues in the world that are disturbing to me.


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## mekasmom (Jan 19, 2010)

painterswife said:


> How many are prepping just in case of the occasional emergency?
> 
> How many are prepping to prepare for world disaster?


I do not believe there is going to be a total breakdown of society and world anarchy or government takeover, dictatorship, etc.

We aren't worried about zombies. We just save up some food, water, medicine for bad economic times and normal disasters of weather, health, job loss, etc.


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## Brokeneck (Mar 1, 2011)

> Geez, Brokeneck -- I wish you were here! We have several local construction companies, and *ALL* are booked two years out. I need a new roof, and I can't get one. No one has the time. There is a lady a few miles away moved here from the city to open a B&B in a big old century home -- she can't open because regulations say she has to have a fire escape from the second and third floors, and she can't get anyone to build it for her -- everyone is booked solid.
> 
> We have one electrician and one plumber in the ENTIRE municipality. We are GASPING for tradespeople here!



If I get out of this pickle I'm in I might just head up your way! Love Canada and the beauty it has! Plus Walleye!!!!!! Been a couple years since family came up to drop the line in the water....
My parents went to red lake for their Honeymoon and have been up every year since. If they can make it up this year it will be their 49th time up. Mom still gets the biggest fish!
Brokeneck


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## oth47 (Jan 11, 2008)

Seems to me there are 3 groups of folks on here..the optimists,the pessimists and the realists.And some belong to more than one of these groups.We pretty much have it made in this country in comparison to the rest of the world,but times can and do get hard.With the natural disasters we've had a lot of folks are hurting.I believe things can get bad on a personal level in a hurry,that's why I prep.And there is gloom and doom,but there's also sunshine.I see the damage from the recent tornadoes,but I see neighbor helping neighbor,and I see groups turning away volunteers because so many people are already helping.I love HT,and I read as much as I can on every topic.Some I take to heart and some I file in the mental trash can.I'm thankful for the optimists,pessimists and realists on this group.


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## TNHermit (Jul 14, 2005)

Neither did the frog as the water started to boil


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## upnorthlady (Oct 16, 2009)

Hey guys - Don't be so hard on Painterswife - she was just making an observation and wondering. Everyone is entitled to their opinions. I, too, have sensed more of a "doom and gloom" attitude not only on this forum, but other forums, and also the news in general. This seems to be a doom and gloom world we live in. As for the term 'prepping' - that's kind of a modern word. Used to be folks just "saved for a rainy day" or "put food by". I'm old enough to remember when my folks and everyone else I knew just stocked up for winter, or bought things on sale to keep on hand, or stored extra for the mud season, etc. We always had extra batteries and candles and food for the stormy season, extra medicines and bandages on hand. Nobody ever called it "prepping". It was just common sense. Lately I have heard all this stupid talk about zombies - where did that come from?

I think Painterswife was just asking a simple question and she didn't need all the sarcasm and belittling that she got, especially from some of the members who have been on here for years and years. It does seem like everyone is so touchy these days, not only on here, but in the world in general. As oth47 stated, there are pessimists, optimists and realists. But surely we can agree to disagree without getting down on someone personally. I suppose I'll take flack for defending painterswife, but so be it.


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## whiskeylivewire (May 27, 2009)

I am by no means a professional prepper but I come here for information and for the "doom and gloom" because I feel that gloom in my soul right now.

It's kinda like going into GC or Politics and asking why they keep fighting the same thing...over...and...over again. :bdh:

Now, that I've offered that side of the argument I will say this. It's been getting more heated in here lately and there has been more politics discussed. I'm guessing that is because what is happening in the political world is starting to mess with what's happening in our lives, even more than usual. 

Ernie is being gruff(which is what Ernie does) and I can see a bit of the "whys" of that as well. He's probably one of the most attacked people on here(as well as a few others that don't deserve it) and that could get tiring.

Now, just because I understand why it's gotten gloomier in here doesn't mean there aren't times that if I was a mod I have wanted to say(while pointing my fingers at some people), "you're banned and you're banned and you're an idiot-go to your room!"

Okay, I'm kidding folks, chill out...Chuck will NEVER make me a mod


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## whiskeylivewire (May 27, 2009)

upnorthlady said:


> Hey guys - Don't be so hard on Painterswife - she was just making an observation and wondering. Everyone is entitled to their opinions. I, too, have sensed more of a "doom and gloom" attitude not only on this forum, but other forums, and also the news in general. This seems to be a doom and gloom world we live in. As for the term 'prepping' - that's kind of a modern word. Used to be folks just "saved for a rainy day" or "put food by". I'm old enough to remember when my folks and everyone else I knew just stocked up for winter, or bought things on sale to keep on hand, or stored extra for the mud season, etc. We always had extra batteries and candles and food for the stormy season, extra medicines and bandages on hand. Nobody ever called it "prepping". It was just common sense. Lately I have heard all this stupid talk about zombies - where did that come from?
> 
> I think Painterswife was just asking a simple question and she didn't need all the sarcasm and belittling that she got, especially from some of the members who have been on here for years and years. It does seem like everyone is so touchy these days, not only on here, but in the world in general. As oth47 stated, there are pessimists, optimists and realists. But surely we can agree to disagree without getting down on someone personally. I suppose I'll take flack for defending painterswife, but so be it.


I think you are right to defend. I think that there have been some "trolls" in here lately and it has put people on edge. We have become reactionary:duel: in some ways when we need to really think about the question.

And by WE I mean me and whoever else feels that way


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## mightybooboo (Feb 10, 2004)

painterswife said:


> I love the ideas and have always been reading. My preps are minuscule in comparison to most on here. I don't feel that sense of doom and gloom and I definitively don't worry about anything long term( more than a couple of months)


Everyone here preps to some degree,but for the occasional troll.

You are prepping to your comfort level,as others prep to theirs.

I see nothing wrong with either approach.Just accept folks are different.

Youre saying 'youre trying to understand why?' is a very valid and good question,no problem there IMO.


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## mightybooboo (Feb 10, 2004)

painterswife said:


> I am not worrying, I am trying to understand.
> 
> I don't know know how all of your lives are spent, though from the amount of posting and reading some of you do I don't know how you get much else done.


Im stuck at home right now,my job is part time and some idiot decided to take out my truck and wife has car at her job.Until my truck gets back,and thats been one delay after another......then Im staring at 4 walls and going NUTZ believe me!

Take care Painterswife,I still think your confusion over us is valid and politely and sincerely asked so take care Friend.


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## unregistered29228 (Jan 9, 2008)

I skim over the doom and gloom stuff because if I read it all I get scared, depressed or overwhelmed. I had to take a break from reading this board a couple of times until I realized I don't have to absorb and implement every thread. There are a lot of bad things going on in the world right now, and I think the subject lines on recent threads shows that people are worried.

As long as I keep on prepping and trying to learn more survival skills to protect my family, then I'm getting what I need most from this board. If I can pass on something I've learned to someone just starting out, even better. And I know I can count on other posters to bring anything really important or EOTW to my attention.


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## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

mightybooboo said:


> Everyone here preps to some degree,but for the occasional troll.
> 
> You are prepping to your comfort level,as others prep to theirs.
> 
> I see nothing wrong with either approach.Just accept folks are different.


I do accept people are different. That does not mean I can not question the reasons for being so.

I think of the whole idea of being prepared for the downturns should be an optimistic approach. You are expecting that you will be able to weather the bad times. That is just not the atmosphere here lately. I usually visit this forum to find ways and ideas for how I can be more self sufficient and even out the bumps in the road by storing things for a rainy day ( as someone else put it). It has increasingly become a chore to weed through the political posts and the who's doing bad things posts. They really don't have a lot to do with the how to's of being prepared that I thought were the reasons for this forum.


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## mightybooboo (Feb 10, 2004)

whiskeylivewire said:


> "you're banned and you're banned and you're an idiot-go to your room!"


LOL,doncha just know it.Line of the day!

 :hysterical:ound::hysterical:


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## mightybooboo (Feb 10, 2004)

painterswife said:


> I do accept people are different. That does not mean I can not question the reasons for being so.
> 
> I think of the whole idea of being prepared for the downturns should be an optimistic approach. You are expecting that you will be able to weather the bad times. That is just not the atmosphere here lately. I usually visit this forum to find ways and ideas for how I can be more self sufficient and even out the bumps in the road by storing things for a rainy day ( as someone else put it). It has increasingly become a chore to weed through the political posts and the who's doing bad things posts. They really don't have a lot to do with the how to's of being prepared that I thought were the reasons for this forum.


 A lot of good thoughts in your post....The HOW TO's are a direct result of the WHY FORS.

For some of us the political aspects ARE a big reason for what to prep for,thats why they are valid,some think being on the alert for what is causing the decline is VERY important for Halting the decline.

If you dont see a decline then it just wouldnt matter from your Point Of View,but for others,it does,a lot.

So No,this isnt just a put up canned food board,its a lot of other things for those who see many dimensions to survival...such as freedom being paramount...for some of us thats as big an issue as any other and greatly affecting our survival,our QUALITY of life.

Yup,politics does affect whats happening,so we are seeing more,if you keep it non partisan it isnt a problem,start with the diehard chest thumbing BITE ME you republodemocrap then yes,it devolves into GC,NOT pleasant at all.


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## elkhound (May 30, 2006)

your kidding right? doom and gloom is so much fun...i love guns,gardens,bow and arrows,canning,building root cellars,growing fish,hunting and fishing,trapping,generators,solar panels,alternative building methods and everything else that goes with a certain lifestyles....oh i forgot ATV's and my toy tractor.boys and their toys....roflmao


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## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

mightybooboo said:


> A lot of good thoughts in your post....The HOW TO's are a direct result of the WHY FORS.
> 
> For some of us the political aspects ARE a big reason for what to prep for,thats why they are valid,some think being on the alert for what is causing the decline is VERY important for Halting the decline.
> 
> ...


The best response I have heard yet. I may not totally agree but thank-you for explaining instead of just labeling me a troll because I am trying to understand.


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## Buffy in Dallas (May 10, 2002)

AngieM2 said:


> On other thing I've been noticing, is that if anyone tries to show more than one point of view on a topic, they get extreme results, almost rude almost deleted, results.
> 
> This forum is getting less friendly and that is distressing me very much -
> It would be bad if this is started to be viewed as "GC Lite" as one person said in another thread.


When people are stressed and scared they get cranky and snappish.:bash:

I've been quite cranky lately! :badmood:


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## Ernie (Jul 22, 2007)

Well, I apologize for the roughness of my tone if you were asking honestly, painterswife. 

What you see here is NOT what you get. It's a very specific forum dedicated to very specific topics. 

There are only two types of people right now who are living completely without concern for the future right now:

The ignorant who are blissfully unaware of events.

The prepared, who have done what they can to get ready and now put their faith in the Lord.


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## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

Ernie said:


> Well, I apologize for the roughness of my tone if you were asking honestly, painterswife.
> 
> What you see here is NOT what you get. It's a very specific forum dedicated to very specific topics.
> 
> ...


Thank-you for the apology.

Ernie I am going to direct this to you because I do think that you post an awful lot of "Doom and Gloom".

Why does that seem to be your focus? (others do seem to focus on this as well) I am hoping you can help me understand.

Does it really pervade your life like it seems to in this forum? Your posts convey as sense of foreboding and very little hope. I can be realistic and very fatalistic but I still am always looking for the good. Dealing with the bad is part of life but for me I make sure it has is place and I make sure that place is a small portion of my life.


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## time (Jan 30, 2011)

stamphappy said:


> This IS the forum where I come to discuss the doom & gloom.
> 
> I'm not going to sit a spell with my neighbors and talk about it and then they will hear about my preps. I'm not going to talk to my co-workers and have them show up on my door step. Only select people know of our preps. YOU are some of those people. S&EP is where I come to discuss the issues that are important to me without everyone thinking I'm a tinfoil hat wearer.
> 
> ...


+1

It is the S&EP forum. I don't know of many emergency or SHTF scenarios that are rosey and positive events. Doesn't mean that I don't enjoy my day. No point in talking about my horse winning or losing a race on S&EP. But I will mention I'll eat it if I HAVE to. :teehee:


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## elkhound (May 30, 2006)

Buffy in Dallas said:


> When people are stressed and scared they get cranky and snappish.:bash:
> 
> I've been quite cranky lately! :badmood:


its the heat....:buds:....we are in the same boat

p.s. anything above 90f make me grouchy as a sore tailed grizzly bear...:viking:


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## SquashNut (Sep 25, 2005)

It's the what if senarios that throw some people off. Some of them do get way out there. But it is good that they are done. Mental practice can keep you from panic when it really does happen. Kinda like making cup cakes over and over for a baking contest. It's a good thing.

I also see some people showing some depression on here. And why not things are kinda rough for every one. It is bitter sweet to know your not the only one going through it. And it is good to have some one who is, give suggestions on how they are dealing with it.
To some it is a fact of life, to others its gloom and doom.


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## mightybooboo (Feb 10, 2004)

No,youre certainly not a troll and I thought the question very valid and sure plenty others wonder same things you asked,good question IMO. You presented it honestly and sincerely,I cant help to not like you just from your attitude towards those you dont understand.

Hope you will gather lots of good stuff here to help you in your views,lots of good stuff for all levels here but the far out radical military extremist shoot em all up types.

Please visit often! You will learn a lot here. And you CAN start out on the filling the pantry type stuff,nothing wrong with that at all,its valid as anything else is.Dont let the rest of the heavier stuff bug ya,just take it with a grain of salt and do what YOU do best,that makes it work for you.

I havent met you before but its a pleasure to meet you BTW.


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## Ernie (Jul 22, 2007)

painterswife said:


> Thank-you for the apology.
> 
> Ernie I am going to direct this to you because I do think that you post an awful lot of "Doom and Gloom".
> 
> ...


I feel that time is short. We're entering a phase where things are going to get ugly.

I bring the doom and gloom because that's what makes people pay attention. I'm hoping I can reveal that last bit of information, that final potential calamity, that will get someone who isn't prepared off their butt and get them started. 

In my personal life I'm not at all that way. I've got a new business that's starting up and doing ok, I've got a new baby that thrills me to no end, and I'm generally enjoying life. I also have a great faith in the Lord that sustains me where others might fall. 

If you're getting a sense of foreboding and little hope, then that's what YOU'RE bringing to the table because it's not my message. My message is "get prepared because bad times are coming upon us."


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## therunbunch (Oct 5, 2009)

Angie has been doing a great job trying to keep people on track, squashing the trolls, and deleting posts that belong in a better spot. It takes time though. And if a particular person's posts bring you down.. well.. there's an ignore list for that if you just can't keep yourself from opening their threads. 

Other than that, I say the mods are doing a decent job keeping things streamlined. It was only just a few days ago that Angie was able to direct more attention to cleaning the forums. Speaking of trolls.. did that hogwallop guy get the axe? Boy he was running into trouble at every turn it seems.


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## mightybooboo (Feb 10, 2004)

Wow,some really thoughtful posts here!

I want to answer the doom and gloom.....its here because its out there,some just put more focus on it is all. Its no great mystery really.It just IS,and some like to discuss it.

Personally I think its getting worse,but Im not obsessed with it,but boy is it on my radar for sure.Maybe we appear obsessed,maybe some of us are,either all the time or part of the time,thats a fair observation youve made on that,you are correct.

its just who we are,nothing more.We still have normal lives elsewhere,think of this as our hobby perhaps?


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## therunbunch (Oct 5, 2009)

OOoh.. Ernie, I liked your answer. And painterswife.. look at it this way.. if the SHTF.. and you're prepared because of all the doom and gloom.. you'll be hanging with some of the coolest folks on the planet after all the unprepped disappear! lol


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## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

Ernie said:


> If you're getting a sense of foreboding and little hope, then that's what YOU'RE bringing to the table because it's not my message. My message is "get prepared because bad times are coming upon us."


I don't think that is entirely the case. Yes, I may be reading more negativity in to it then you mean to put out there, but I do think that you put out more than realize.


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## therunbunch (Oct 5, 2009)

mightybooboo said:


> Wow,some really thoughtful posts here!
> 
> I want to answer the doom and gloom.....its here because its out there,some just put more focus on it is all. Its no great mystery really.It just IS,and some like to discuss it.
> 
> ...


It may also be magnified due to the fact that people are not trying to plan and UNDERSTAND (like Painterswife).. Myself for example... I never paid much attention to the Survival, General Chat, or Politics areas of the HT Forums.. but boy do I now! I post here more than ever.. had made about 10 new really wonderful cyber-pals and I am learning so much. I ask a lot of questions and I read all the doom & gloom I can so that I can see what's going on and if it even applies to me. If you follow some of us around (like someone else mentioned about balance..) you'll find us posting a whole lot in other places as well (I hang out in the General homesteading and homesteading families and pets areas mainly too.. oh and the gardening, preserving, and recipe area. We do partake in other stuff. 

For me.. I am learning.. so I read as much as I can and I ask a lot of questions. People here are eager to help you figure out things and put them into Lehmans terms for you if you aren't as savvy about a certain topic.


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## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

therunbunch said:


> OOoh.. Ernie, I liked your answer. And painterswife.. look at it this way.. if the SHTF.. and you're prepared because of all the doom and gloom.. you'll be hanging with some of the coolest folks on the planet after all the unprepped disappear! lol


I don't need doom and gloom to make me more prepared. That is entirely dependent on my intellect and my optimism. Doom and gloom is more likely to make me give up and just have good time and not worry about the future. 

Optimism for me is knowing that if a natural disaster happens tomorrow and wipes out any preparations I may have made in the way of food preps etc. I would survive because of my knowledge and common sense.


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## mightybooboo (Feb 10, 2004)

therunbunch said:


> did that hogwallop guy get the axe?


Looks like he did and its time to let it die a quiet death and move on seems to be the take.


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## earthkitty (Mar 3, 2011)

Some people talk about being "prepped" for storms and job loss, and illness, to me that is just life, not SHTF.

Survival and preparedness for me means being ready to feed and keep safe my family when the economy/dollar collapses, during some sort of civil unrest due to govt checks not being sent, or something similar.

If those things don't happen, great. I go about my daily life.


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## mightybooboo (Feb 10, 2004)

earthkitty said:


> Some people talk about being "prepped" for storms and job loss, and illness, *to me that is just life, not SHTF*.
> 
> Survival and preparedness for me means being ready to feed and keep safe my family when the economy/dollar collapses, during some sort of civil unrest due to govt checks not being sent, or something similar.
> 
> If those things don't happen, great. I go about my daily life.


Thats it in a nutshell for most of us IMO too.


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## therunbunch (Oct 5, 2009)

mightybooboo said:


> Looks like he did and its time to let it die a quiet death and move on seems to be the take.


My lips are sealed!


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## Justin Thyme (Jun 3, 2011)

I recently heard on the Glenn Beck show a discussion of the FEMA response to family in Joplin, holding a letter from FEMA while standing on all that was left of their home. A bare slab surrounded by rubble. The FEMA letter in response to a request for guvmint aide stated in part (para quote): "Our inspectors have determined that your home has not been damaged to the point where it is not habitable and that any necessary repairs are easily made and can be found locally. We have determined that you are not eligible for federal aid."
This is what happens when you find yourself to relying on government help. It was in response to a natural disaster. There were other examples. We _may_ be able to _rely_ on neighbors, but not on strangers.

* The Point*

Here, on the SURVIVAL & EMERGENCY PREPAREDNESS forum I am looking for information on surviving in and preparing for unforeseen, but foreseeable, emergencies. Ranging from a kitchen fire to the entire system going down in flames. 
I find the information provided by everyone- from those who suggest you buy a box of dried milk duds to have on hand for extra energy to those who think you should put on your ghilly suit, get out the sniper rifle and begin picking off trespassers- to be informative, useful to a greater or lesser extent, and always entertaining. 
I do think that everyone has their own viewpoint as to the local and general level of emergency probability and responds to their own perception. But we all also live in the world and never know when the power will go out, a flood or storm will create a mess of the local infrastructure and when and for how long we may be thrown back onto our own devices. 

Always interesting even when it gets off track. Now I'm gonna go out and buy TWO boxes of those freeze-dried milk duds.


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## earthkitty (Mar 3, 2011)

mightybooboo said:


> Thats it in a nutshell for most of us IMO too.


Good to know I'm not alone.

Now go buy a stove.


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## mightybooboo (Feb 10, 2004)

earthkitty said:


> Good to know I'm not alone.
> 
> Now go buy a stove.


Hoping for an airtight,but should I just grab one that works? Thats my dilemma.Look for a while I guess,Im thinking a week or so something should pop right up!


And hoping spellcheck never fails,cause when it does Im going to sound like the biggest maroon on the planet,yup,even more than I sound like one now! Hows THAT for thread drift??? :hysterical:

:icecream:


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## Sonshine (Jul 27, 2007)

Ok, let me start by saying I did not read all 3 pages of the responses. As for myself and my family, we prep so we don't have to worry. We feel that our world is heading in the wrong direction and believe the Bible teaches us to be prepared. Although our preps are probably different than some, it's more along the line of becoming more self sufficient. We're raising most of our own food, have gotten a solar set up to take care of things we would like to keep in case of a disruption of power, or in case the cost of electricity gets so high we can no longer afford it. I'm learning about alternative medicines because I like being able to take care of my family and don't want to tax an already overtaxed medical system with things I can treat at home. I don't know what is going to happen in the immediate future, but the Bible is pretty explicit in how bad this world is going to get in the end. Since I don't believe in the pre-trib teachings, I believe my family will be here for at least part of the tribulation period, as well as friends and family. So, I prepare by learning as much as I can and doing as much as I can. If nothing changes or gets any worse, I'm no worse off than before, in fact, we're better off than before because our expenses have been lowered and our knowledge has increased.


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## Sonshine (Jul 27, 2007)

painterswife said:


> I do accept people are different. That does not mean I can not question the reasons for being so.
> 
> I think of the whole idea of being prepared for the downturns should be an optimistic approach. You are expecting that you will be able to weather the bad times. That is just not the atmosphere here lately. I usually visit this forum to find ways and ideas for how I can be more self sufficient and even out the bumps in the road by storing things for a rainy day ( as someone else put it). It has increasingly become a chore to weed through the political posts and the who's doing bad things posts. They really don't have a lot to do with the how to's of being prepared that I thought were the reasons for this forum.


I've heard GC likened to a dysfunctional family. I guess in some ways S & P can be considered similar. We are all at different levels in our preps. We prep for various reasons. I think one reason you are seeing more doom and gloom is because things all over the world seem to be going wrong. Everything from natural disasters that affect our food supplies, to energy (cost of gas is outrageous) to the wars in the middle east which many don't believe we should be involved in and will only bring more trouble from terrorists to our shores. So if you see the doom and gloom levels go up, maybe it's because our world seems to be spinning out of control and people are reacting to it. Some in fear, but others in trying to figure out where their preps are lacking and how to fill those gaps.


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## Sonshine (Jul 27, 2007)

Ernie said:


> I feel that time is short. We're entering a phase where things are going to get ugly.
> 
> I bring the doom and gloom because that's what makes people pay attention. I'm hoping I can reveal that last bit of information, that final potential calamity, that will get someone who isn't prepared off their butt and get them started.
> 
> ...


Ernie, I appreciate the information you post here. It's hard for many of us to get the whole story of what's going on in the world. Being able to see what's happening and knowing what direction things are heading helps those like me to know how to prep so I don't worry so much.


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## Sonshine (Jul 27, 2007)

painterswife said:


> I don't think that is entirely the case. Yes, I may be reading more negativity in to it then you mean to put out there, but I do think that you put out more than realize.


Speaking on Ernie's behalf, although I know he does a good enough job of speaking for himself, I would say that it's not so much the negativity that he puts out there, it's the negativity of what's going on in the world today. He's just posting the news, which the mainstream media no longer does, and many people, myself included, are glad that there are people who are willing to report the news, even if it's bad news.


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## Vickie44 (Jul 27, 2010)

But I think the world has always been this way, the end is nigh . My grandfather thought Mick Jagger would be the downfall of civilization. All through history there have been portents of disaster and bigger mistakes made trying to correct big mistakes.Things have always been going wrong, older people would probably say we've got it easy. Focusing on the percieved threats and doom and gloom doesnt do much to correct a situation , it just fosters a negative environment. I think you can be prepared without having to scare yourself into doing it


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## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

Sonshine said:


> Speaking on Ernie's behalf, although I know he does a good enough job of speaking for himself, I would say that it's not so much the negativity that he puts out there, it's the negativity of what's going on in the world today. He's just posting the news, which the mainstream media no longer does, and many people, myself included, are glad that there are people who are willing to report the news, even if it's bad news.


So where is a little good news to balance the bad?

How about, the wheat crop is bad this year stock up, but "this store" is having a great sale on sugar.

Or maybe balance a flash mob destruction report with this group of people held a group firewood cutting and stacking party for the local elderly.

I don't get why it has to be all bad?


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## time (Jan 30, 2011)

painterswife said:


> So where is a little good news to balance the bad?
> 
> How about, the wheat crop is bad this year stock up, but "this store" is having a great sale on sugar.
> 
> ...


I guess cuz your not looking for the good.

Often there are reports here of sales, where to get this or that, garden successes, pantries stocked, ect.

One quick example: http://www.homesteadingtoday.com/showthread.php?t=400849


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## seagullplayer (Nov 6, 2008)

I read this part of the forum a few times a week sometimes I have to laugh out loud at what some people are saying. I agree that there does seem to be a few on here that are not just preparing for the &#8220;end of the world&#8221; but are awaiting its arrival with baited breath.

I take it with a grain of salt, I have a friend that was sure life as we know it would end 30 years ago, he moved his family out to the middle of nowhere and has been waiting the end of civilization ever sense. Every time I talk to him he is telling me about some event that is in the process of happening and that maybe we got a week left, a month on the outside then&#8230;

I am one of them people that try to be ready for the most likely events; you know I can eat for a few days maybe a week or two without leaving the house. I got a few candles and some oil lamps on hand, and then you got people that are stocking up stuff to make light bulbs or cook up a batch of bio diesel. I&#8217;m thinking about putting more insulation in the ceiling to stop heat loss and they are planning on adding cement to the wall to stop bullets in case of zombie attack! 

Somehow some of the information in this part of the forum may be beneficial to both of us. Maybe we shouldn&#8217;t pay much mind to the reasons. He may think I am naive fool and I may think he is a paranoid lunatic, just so long as we keep that to ourselves we can both share ideas.:happy2:

I would love to see us come up with a list of the most likely events that folks need to prep for. Seems to me that a person just getting started might be helped most to be ready for what they are most likely to come up against. Maybe start with the electric goes out for a night or two and end with "the road"?


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## earthkitty (Mar 3, 2011)

painterswife said:


> So where is a little good news to balance the bad?
> 
> How about, the wheat crop is bad this year stock up, but "this store" is having a great sale on sugar.
> 
> ...


Because this is S&P.

No one prepares because people are stacking wood for the elderly.


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## earthkitty (Mar 3, 2011)

mightybooboo said:


> Hoping for an airtight,but should I just grab one that works? Thats my dilemma.Look for a while I guess,Im thinking a week or so something should pop right up!
> 
> 
> And hoping spellcheck never fails,cause when it does Im going to sound like the biggest maroon on the planet,yup,even more than I sound like one now! Hows THAT for thread drift??? :hysterical:
> ...


Buddy I am NOT going to give advice (although I guess I already did)!!! I'm just enough of a maroon to mess you up.

Do what fits your situation best. Me, I get what is available and then upgrade later when I have the time/money. I have a something is better than nothing mentality.


eta: anyone who picks on someone else because of spelling errors is a turd.


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## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

earthkitty said:


> Because this is S&P.
> 
> No one prepares because people are stacking wood for the elderly.


I am sorry but that is prepping, just for someone not able to do it for themselves.


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## earthkitty (Mar 3, 2011)

painterswife said:


> I am sorry but that is prepping, just for someone not able to do it for themselves.


No it isn't, it is helping others, which people should be doing every day anyway.


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## mightybooboo (Feb 10, 2004)

earthkitty said:


> Buddy I am NOT going to give advice (although I guess I already did)!!! I'm just enough of a maroon to mess you up.
> 
> Do what fits your situation best. Me, I get what is available and then upgrade later when I have the time/money. I have a something is better than nothing mentality.


Yes,Im seeing that light too,If something doesnt show I'll get a real cheapy that later could be used in a greenhouse perhaps,and keep looking.

I saw a REALLY nice Vermont Castings with green enamel,never used,airtight for 500 but.....Im still looking,might not fit my fireplace opening where its going to go,plus pricy when I need to conserve...yet it was real nice,Mrs loved it.

Yup,a challenge to buy things sometimes,wish money didnt have to be a cinsideration.


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## mightybooboo (Feb 10, 2004)

seagullplayer said:


> I would love to see us come up with a list of the most likely events that folks need to prep for. Seems to me that a person just getting started might be helped most to be ready for what they are most likely to come up against. Maybe start with the electric goes out for a night or two and end with "the road"?


Its all here,just do a search,from A to Zombie,its here.


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## tab (Aug 20, 2002)

The responses to the op have been detailed, respectful and in some cases, eloquent. They have given me food for thought. People have taken time out of their day to give said responses, that is upbeat in itself. That tells me a lot about the character of many here and I believe that is a HUGE plus.


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## secretcreek (Jan 24, 2010)

I think it interesting that there are at the time I'm typing this only 100 less people than the all time high of visitors to HT... Summer, daytime for most folks, workday mid week... ....interesting
-scrt crk


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## SquashNut (Sep 25, 2005)

I don't see this as gloom and doom, but more a place where people come to find their own "HOPE".


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## earthkitty (Mar 3, 2011)

secretcreek said:


> I think it interesting that there are at the time I'm typing this only 100 less people than the all time high of visitors to HT... Summer, daytime for most folks, workday mid week... ....interesting
> -scrt crk


Well for those of us at home, it is darned hot outside. I'm waiting for evening temps before I go back out to work.


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## manygoatsnmore (Feb 12, 2005)

mightybooboo said:


> Yes, I'm seeing that light too,If something doesn't show I'll get a real cheapy that later could be used in a greenhouse perhaps, and keep looking.
> 
> I saw a REALLY nice Vermont Castings with green enamel,never used,airtight for 500 but.....I'm still looking,might not fit my fireplace opening where its going to go,plus pricy when I need to conserve...yet it was real nice,Mrs loved it.
> 
> Yup,a challenge to buy things sometimes,wish money didn't have to be a consideration.


Booboo, grab that Vermont Castings stove with both hands and work a few extra shifts to pay for it! I have a Vermont Castings Resolute, and I LOVE it. Mine is the basic black version. It heats my 1600sf home quite well and I only used about 2 cords of wood all winter - didn't use my electric furnace at all. You'll get your money back on it in no time, when you're not paying for grid heat. Plus, it has that nice flat top that you can cook on.


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## earthkitty (Mar 3, 2011)

mightybooboo said:


> Yes,Im seeing that light too,If something doesnt show I'll get a real cheapy that later could be used in a greenhouse perhaps,and keep looking.
> 
> I saw a REALLY nice Vermont Castings with green enamel,never used,airtight for 500 but.....Im still looking,might not fit my fireplace opening where its going to go,plus pricy when I need to conserve...yet it was real nice,Mrs loved it.
> 
> Yup,a challenge to buy things sometimes,wish money didnt have to be a cinsideration.


500.00 seems very reasonable.

Don't you have a measuring tape?????


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## mightybooboo (Feb 10, 2004)

OK guys.I will measure and see what we have...BRB, and Im open to all ideas but it has to go in fireplace unfortunately

OK,first off ya'll are right,the listing is GONE!

OK,here is my house,its very small and ALL wood.I have but one place for the stove/heater and it has to fit the 24 high by 34 wide fireplace.It has an 18 inch hearth,then carpet.Thats my poor dying leghorn BTW,attacked by a raccoon couple days ago,she is about gone.

click to enlarge


Back on topic Im thinking this style is pretty much it,would that Vermont have fit,and yes,I know they ARE a Cadillac of stoves,very nice arent they?!

This is 265 dollars and in town,though Im seeing them cheaper in not as pretty shape but certainly functional


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## bourbonred (Feb 27, 2008)

painterswife said:


> So where is a little good news to balance the bad?
> 
> How about, the wheat crop is bad this year stock up, but "this store" is having a great sale on sugar.
> 
> ...


Feel free to start whatever good news posts you want, but I come here for gloom and doom. I consider it part of the culture of prepping. As a nurse, we have our own form of humor, don't ever try to tell a non-nurse a joke about "intensive pillow therapy" applied to an aggravating patient. Prepping and zombies and the like are the same way. Many aren't into it and don't get it. They just think we're paranoid and gloomy, or worse...unbalanced :shocked: bwahahahaha (evil scientist laugh)


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## fordy (Sep 13, 2003)

....................Back in the mid 1950's when I was in grade school\junior high we were constantly reminded of the possibility of a Nuclear attack by the Russians , which , now that I think about it was much worse than anything that we are Worried about , Now ! I was forever having too crawl under my desk which would prevent us kids from being zapped by Russian nukes . Moms of little girls made them wear fairly long dresses because the boys were always trying too see what color their skvvies , were lol ! Don't look......you might turn into an empty lunch box with no handle . , fordy:runforhills:


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## AngieM2 (May 10, 2002)

fordy - I was in Ft. Walton Beach, and Pensacola during the Bay of Pigs time -
needless to say, I know how to get under my desk and cover my head with my thickest book.

I guess my earliest prepping remembering is my mom getting stuff together so we could be safe in the center of the house with all the bedroom doors closed, to make a barrier should nuclear happen. And the first transistor radio I remember was bought for that shelter in place. I forget what she may have had for food for those 3 or 4 days or however long we were suppose to stay in the hallway to be safer from radiation and fallout.


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## mightybooboo (Feb 10, 2004)

Somehow we missed the nuke stuff,I dont remember any of that.


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## wyld thang (Nov 16, 2005)

well, as one of the "loathed"...I am a realist. Also been around long enough to observe that Doom and Gloom is good for profit, gaining power or influence. (Exhibit A, the thread on "the next 20 years", which would be an example of profit).

While I am a Christian and as such "believe" in the End Times stuff, I've also observed that an obsession about all that usually ends up in a total sideways end run around what the Christian life was meant to be--love your neighbor, be Jesus--and "others" are zombies to be roasted on a stick. I really don't "care" what other people's faith are(ie what you do is between you and God)--just making this comment in the light of that apocalypse stuff in Christianity.

All this prepping stuff is simply frugal, prudent living that people used to do. Which there is a lot of fun in it, as Elkhound sez. 

I fully believe that if a person gets consumed by Doom and Gloom, to the point that it becomes their identity, that's SHTF right there, and they WILL reap--they miss out on many good and precious things in life RIGHT NOW.


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## Sonshine (Jul 27, 2007)

painterswife said:


> So where is a little good news to balance the bad?
> 
> How about, the wheat crop is bad this year stock up, but "this store" is having a great sale on sugar.
> 
> ...


For me, the good news is that in the end it all comes down to my faith that whatever happens is in God's hands and that I believe the end will be exactly as the Bible states it is. Throughout the Bible God told people to prepare for this or that. I believe he is calling on many to prepare now. The reason it's all bad is because for the most part, things are bad and appear to be getting worse.


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## AngieM2 (May 10, 2002)

whiskeylivewire said:


> Now, just because I understand why it's gotten gloomier in here doesn't mean there aren't times that if I was a mod I have wanted to say(while pointing my fingers at some people), "you're banned and you're banned and you're an idiot-go to your room!"
> 
> Okay, I'm kidding folks, chill out...Chuck will NEVER make me a mod



Have to admit - this sounds like fun some days, some evenings and a few nights.


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## Spinner (Jul 19, 2003)

I've spent most of my life prepping for retirement. Now that I'm here, I'm a bit disappointed to discover the finish line has moved!

If I had it to do over again, I'd have done a lot of things different. That's the basis of the advice I post to others. Hopefully someone can learn from my mistakes, and hopefully I can pass along some of the things that worked out well. 

TEOTWAWKI


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

> you should put on your ghilly suit


I wonder how many HAVE a Ghillie suit?


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## stanb999 (Jan 30, 2005)

The reason I see S&P getting so inflammatory is the fact that life has gotten rather inflammatory. The news quite frankly is bad. This is but a few.

We have loads of people on food assistance. 40% I'm told. In addition to drastic price inflation for it.
Gas prices... 
We have unemployment listed as nearing the double digits. But we all know it's higher... Hedonic models don't help when paying a mortgage.
Speaking of mortgages. some 28% of homes are underwater.
The .gov is speaking openly about the fact that they can't pay SSI and Medicare. We all new this but they are saying it out loud.
Seams the economic front is rather foreboding

As far as disasters...
We have had earth quakes, floods, droughts, tornados, a nuclear meltdown... What's left? Fire raining from the sky.. oops look to Chile. 
Yeah, I see reason for a bit of alarm.

Wars.. 
Because "They hate us for our freedom!" (TM. 2001) We have had to send care packages to. 
Iraq
Afghanistan
Libya 
Pakistani
Syria 
Yemen

War is a good reason to prep. You really believe they don't want to strike back?

To the issue of "them" hating our freedom. TSA need I say more? 
This is also a good reason to prep.



P.S. The title of the "news" threads are generally pretty good in listing the content. If you find them disturbing. I suggest you not read them. I myself must step back from the "news" every once in a while.


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## stanb999 (Jan 30, 2005)

mightybooboo said:


> OK guys.I will measure and see what we have...BRB, and Im open to all ideas but it has to go in fireplace unfortunately
> 
> OK,first off ya'll are right,the listing is GONE!
> 
> ...


I suggest you buy the best you can afford. Don't skimp. The extra 500 to 1000 will be more than made up in ease of use and wood savings. Even free less wood used is less effort to make and store. Amortized over 10 years the extra 50 or 100 a year is cheap really. 

A cheap stove is thin walled. Less well made. Not much more than a tin box. For instance. The one you show is "free burning" which means no overnight burns.

A more expensive stove is heavy so it keeps heat for a while after the fire is out. They are "Air tight" for long burns. They burn cleanly so you don't get creosote build up.


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## Ernie (Jul 22, 2007)

Stan, as a woodstove question ... how is burning cleanly a function of the stove? I thought that solely had to do with the wood used.


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## stanb999 (Jan 30, 2005)

Ernie said:


> Stan, as a wood stove question ... how is burning cleanly a function of the stove? I thought that solely had to do with the wood used.


Yes and no. You can't burn junk wood "well". But you can burn good wood bad. Even "dry" wood is 15-20% water by weight. In a "normal" fire precipitated tars contained in woodsmoke combine with water in the smoke to form deposits we call creosote. This happens when the flue temperature falls to below the boiling point of water. For obvious reasons when one "damps" back the stove for long burns the flue can cool and cause issues. 

The new stoves have "insulation" in the fire box. This raises the temperature of the fire box greatly to in excess of 1200 degrees. This would be an obvious problem without the insulation. These high temps burn away the tars and smoke particles completely when operated properly. So your exhaust is largely just co2 and nitrogen. 

The "cheaper" stoves get around this by free burning the wood. Basically it burns it fast and hot to avoid low temperatures in the firebox and flue.


Both of the above stove types were mandated for "environmental" reasons. Hotter = cleaner. But the secondary and more important impact IMHO is the cleaner and safer chimney.

P.S.
There is a third type of stove that uses a catalytic converter of sorts. But they have fallen out of favor due to maintenance costs.


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## bruce2288 (Jul 10, 2009)

The biggest factor for a clean burn is adequate air to the fuel any stove damped down creating an oxygen starved fire will produce creosote. One of the reasons rocket stoves are very efficient on creosote build up, besides the design, is that there is no damper on exhaust or air intake so the fire burn full on.


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## Ernie (Jul 22, 2007)

Hrm. My stove has these fire bricks all along the inside of it. Our greatest problem with it is that with even a little amount of wood it gets TOO hot.


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## Ohio Rusty (Jan 18, 2008)

Some of my fears of the doom and gloom is alot of it I cannot do anything about. Some of it I have no clue how to prepare for it. Greece is a good example. Lets say they do default and collapse. With the right set of circumstances, this could be a domino effect that also brings down Italy, Portugal, Spain, then the EU collapses in on itself because France and Germany are highly loaned and leveraged to all the other countries. 
We inturn are also in all this mess with them in the billions upon billions. The US economy takes a bad hit, inflation goes thru the roof right along with your utilities, gas, store prices for everything, etc. I can't stop or change any of the above. If it happens, it will drag me and all of us into the economic whirlpool like a rope around our ankles with an anchor on the other end. 
How do you prep for that ??? I've prepped savings and food stuffs as I watched as things have been going up and up in price. Eventually it will all run out. 

There are many things that are or have been happening that is out of my control .... (Ohio with flooding rains for 2 and 1/2 months, weird world events). That is my fear factor. If I can take control of it ....I can know the outcome. That is optimistic for me. When I don't know what is coming or will get suckerpunched suddenly by an event or issue, I feel like I'm free falling without a parachute, and have no control on how hard I'm gonna hit .....
This is the doom and gloom part of it that bothers be ... and that part is a reality of life that all of us face. Not being able to see into the crystal ball causes fears in me and not knowing what to do.
I have a Panic button avatar for a reason you know !!!

Ohio Rusty ><>
"No trees were killed in the sending of this message. However, a great number of electrons were inconvenienced."


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## fordy (Sep 13, 2003)

AngieM2 said:


> fordy - I was in Ft. Walton Beach, and Pensacola during the Bay of Pigs time -
> needless to say, I know how to get under my desk and cover my head with my thickest book.
> 
> I guess my earliest prepping remembering is my mom getting stuff together so we could be safe in the center of the house with all the bedroom doors closed, to make a barrier should nuclear happen. And the first transistor radio I remember was bought for that shelter in place. I forget what she may have had for food for those 3 or 4 days or however long we were suppose to stay in the hallway to be safer from radiation and fallout.


...............Knowledge is imparted in mysterious ways , you probably absorbed the knowledge in that book while waiting too become a crispy critter . , fordy


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## MO_cows (Aug 14, 2010)

I try to absorb the useful information but not the doom and gloom attitude that some give off. It is kind of like telling ghost stories around the campfire, you can get so caught up in it you are scared and jumpy. For me, scared and jumpy is no way to live. Having preps just makes it easier to be an optomist in my case.


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## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

MO_cows said:


> I try to absorb the useful information but not the doom and gloom attitude that some give off. It is kind of like telling ghost stories around the campfire, you can get so caught up in it you are scared and jumpy. For me, scared and jumpy is no way to live. Having preps just makes it easier to be an optomist in my case.


That is exactly how I feel. Bad things happen all the time. You can not prepare for them all.


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## Tracy Rimmer (May 9, 2002)

Ohio Rusty said:


> How do you prep for that ??? I've prepped savings and food stuffs as I watched as things have been going up and up in price. Eventually it will all run out.


By buying commodities that will be subject to extreme inflation NOW while they're still relatively affordable. Stock up on things you will absolutely HAVE to have to survive (food, water, necessary meds, good-quality clothing) before the price skyrockets. 

Also, have back up plans for things you CAN'T stock up on (utilities). You need shelter, heat, light. If you can't pay the electric bill because of inflation, do you have a way to heat your house without it? A wood stove? Non-electric space heaters of some sort? What about light? Candles? Oil lamps? Flashlights and batteries? Those things can be stocked, where utility service can't.

You can prep for it -- it's just that in extreme situations, there is a difference between surviving (and thriving) and retaining your current lifestyle. In the case of a complete economic collapse in the west (which I don't believe is going to happen, but I've been wrong before  ) are you really going to be concerned about paying twice as much for your cel-phone service? Or are you going to be concerned about putting enough food on the table to feed your family? 

The *REAL* necessities CAN be prepped for -- it's the current western lifestyle that isn't really sustainable.


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## mightybooboo (Feb 10, 2004)

Im going with the guy who says 2 solar panels and a battery beats candles and oil lamps.

Anybody can do those just about if you have any prep bucks and you will have lights and radio on even with the harbor freight kits,arent they as cheap as 225 bucks right now?


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## catalyst (Feb 22, 2007)

I think the whole doom&gloom vs sunshine and positive thinking thing MIGHT be due to differing religious outlooks on life.

Most religious folk think the end of the world is a given, and it has to get worse before it gets better. The end times stuff is always a factor.

Most non religious folks tend to think looking forward, and don't believe the end times or biblical prophecy therefore they don't factor that into their view of the future. 

I believe this is why most people get into really hot and heavy arguments about prepping. For one side, Jesus is coming back and the world is going to end one way or another and you can't escape that fact. The other side thinks it can work to steer civilization out of any problem and just keep going forward.

It's the classic conservative christian Vs. progressive liberal argument.
Even if they are both prepping for a bad day, they are both prepping for very different reasons with very different goals in mind.

Maybe, you all need 2 SE&P forums..... one for each side. 
You can't mix oil and water.


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## texican (Oct 4, 2003)

painterswife said:


> How many are prepping just in case of the occasional emergency?
> 
> How many are prepping to prepare for world disaster?


Prep for the occasional emergency, and a world wide disaster will doom you.

Prep for a world wide disaster, and an occasional emergency is childs play.

Failure to plan is planning to fail.

I find it hard reading about world events and not getting nervous...


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## Rainy (Jan 21, 2010)

Guess i see this forum much different... to me this is like a class. When i came looking for a place like this, i had prepped to the point that i needed directions as where and what to do next... These folks on here have taught me so much, and i am not even considered a prepper next to some of these folks,sometimes i consider myself a sponge just soaking up information as how to best care for my family "if" something should happen. so i guess i don't really see all the doom and gloom, I see people sharing information and helping each other learn. But just so you know, something very bad is stirring in the world, and eventually something has to give.


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## olivehill (Aug 17, 2009)

painterswife said:


> So where is a little good news to balance the bad?
> 
> How about, the wheat crop is bad this year stock up, but "this store" is having a great sale on sugar.
> 
> ...


As someone else already pointed out there is a lot of positivity here. Maybe you're skipping over it? That said, if you want different news - good or bad -- go find it. Ernie is not your man servant. He already has a wife. :gaptooth:

Your complaining that everyone here is paying attention to the negative world events and advocating the "building of bunkers" is like going to an AA meeting and then bellyaching because everyone there is struggling with alcoholism. Well, _DUH!_ It's an AA meeting, Einstein. Of COURSE Alcoholics gather there. This is survival and emergency preparedness OF COURSE people with an interest in and focus on emergencies and survival gather here. A rainbow over a strawberry field in Indiana is not an emergency so chances are news of it isn't going to be a big eye catcher here.


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## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

olivehill said:


> As someone else already pointed out there is a lot of positivity here. Maybe you're skipping over it? That said, if you want different news - good or bad -- go find it. Ernie is not your man servant. He already has a wife. :gaptooth:
> 
> Your complaining that everyone here is paying attention to the negative world events and advocating the "building of bunkers" is like going to an AA meeting and then bellyaching because everyone there is struggling with alcoholism. Well, _DUH!_ It's an AA meeting, Einstein. Of COURSE Alcoholics gather there. This is survival and emergency preparedness OF COURSE people with an interest in and focus on emergencies and survival gather here. A rainbow over a strawberry field in Indiana is not an emergency so chances are news of it isn't going to be a big eye catcher here.


There is a big difference between preparing for the worst and dwelling on the worst.

After reading all the responses I see a two types of people here( with some shades of grey). Those who have hope for the future and those that are dwelling on the negative. I won't argue with you about who is and who is not. It is very obvious from people's post who likes to wallow and who just likes to be prepared.

This does not have to be a forum that is all about doom and gloom but I guess those that are wallowing in it really like it that way. I believe there are those here who also just like to encourage others to wallow for the fun of it. I for one expect good and bad in my life and will ride the waves to the best of my ability, smiling the majority of the time.


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## belladulcinea (Jun 21, 2006)

There is no one here encouraging people to "wallow" in gloom and doom. If people choose to do so that's fine! I don't have to read those posts! This doom and gloom that is spoken of doesn't take up much of my time, I do however want to be warned of some things in the world that I may not see on World News Tonight!


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## time (Jan 30, 2011)

painterswife said:


> There is a big difference between preparing for the worst and dwelling on the worst.
> 
> After reading all the responses I see a two types of people here( with some shades of grey). Those who have hope for the future and those that are dwelling on the negative. I won't argue with you about who is and who is not. It is very obvious from people's post who likes to wallow and who just likes to be prepared.
> 
> This does not have to be a forum that is all about doom and gloom but I guess those that are wallowing in it really like it that way. I believe there are those here who also just like to encourage others to wallow for the fun of it. I for one expect good and bad in my life and will ride the waves to the best of my ability, smiling the majority of the time.


Your opinion on this is understandable to a degree yet moot for the forum.

It's a personality opinion. It's a opinion on how other people spend their time, what they chose to think about, how they choose to live. 

I know many people that "wallow" and have no use for topics we discuss here. I figure if they want to be eternally sad(think Archie Bunker for a TV referance) and negative, it is their personality to be so and I like them just fine for who they are.

In other words, your being judgemental. "I see two types of people".


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## AngieM2 (May 10, 2002)

painterswife said:


> There is a big difference between preparing for the worst and dwelling on the worst.
> 
> After reading all the responses I see a two types of people here( with some shades of grey). Those who have hope for the future and those that are dwelling on the negative. I won't argue with you about who is and who is not. It is very obvious from people's post who likes to wallow and who just likes to be prepared.
> 
> This does not have to be a forum that is all about doom and gloom but I guess those that are wallowing in it really like it that way. I believe there are those here who also just like to encourage others to wallow for the fun of it. I for one expect good and bad in my life and will ride the waves to the best of my ability, smiling the majority of the time.



Enough of putting down the people of this forum, and how we do things.


WHY are YOU here? Most people do not survive picnics, birthday parties (that's debatable if children are involved) and such NICE things. This is to be ready for when the not so nice things happen.

if you want to celebrate the wheat coming in - try Homesteading Questions or Countryside Families.
But if you want to ride the waves - you have to know when the waves are coming or you might get knocked over or at the worse drown.

So - Why ARE YOU here?


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## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

time said:


> Your opinion on this is understandable to a degree yet moot for the forum.
> 
> It's a personality opinion. It's a opinion on how other people spend their time, what they chose to think about, how they choose to live.
> 
> ...


Actually , I thought I was trying to understand and exchange information. I guess I could have used the word immerse instead of wallow in my initial posts. I thought people were trying to understand and dialogue and understood my misuse of the word. I don't feel that so much now.


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## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

AngieM2 said:


> Enough of putting down the people of this forum, and how we do things.
> 
> 
> WHY are YOU here? Most people do not survive picnics, birthday parties (that's debatable if children are involved) and such NICE things. This is to be ready for when the not so nice things happen.
> ...


I have been here though not an active poster for years. I did not feel the need to post before as I gleaned the information I needed without having to post. I asked a simple question because I wanted an answer.

Where did I bring picnic and rainbows into the discussion? No I simply asked why there is not more balance. You yourself pointed out that you have seen a rise in the doom and gloom.


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## Bluesgal (Jun 17, 2011)

The more you know the better off you are. Gloom and doom is due to the current state of affairs both nationally and internationally. 

Perparedness=Independence

Being in facilities managment for the last 20 years I live by the following mantra:

_Preapre for the worst and hope for the best!_

Also, this forum provides a place to ppl to discuss thier concerns and what if's without being concerned with the judgment of other people. Like minds.


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## AngieM2 (May 10, 2002)

Well the forum has settled back down to itself.
The doom and gloom - well, that's what we do here. And we use tin foil hats a lot :TFH: - grab yours.

And there was more doom and gloom earlier in the week due to a lot of issues, unfortuately I was feeling and dodging most of them.

This is who we are.


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## AngieM2 (May 10, 2002)

Bluesgal - welcome to the "doom and gloom" tin foil had club


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## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

AngieM2 said:


> Well the forum has settled back down to itself.
> The doom and gloom - well, that's what we do here. And we use tin foil hats a lot :TFH: - grab yours.
> 
> And there was more doom and gloom earlier in the week due to a lot of issues, unfortuately I was feeling and dodging most of them.
> ...


Okay, where are the instructions to make my tin-foil hat?. They must be here somewhere.


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## Bluesgal (Jun 17, 2011)

@Angie - Thanks. Nice to have a place where ppl think you're only slightly crazy but no crazier than they are! 

As I don't have the option of being on mutiple acreage of my own (although I do own my own home) it's important to me to know what is going on around me and how it may or may not affect me. 

Growing up in the northeast you learned to stock your pantry as the power may go out and you may get snowed in for a few days. PPL here laugh at me for that.. but hey, I figure I could feed myself for 6 months going to the store only for fruits, vegetables and dairy. 

IMHO inflation will soon make the last few years look like a cake walk..:lonergr:


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## mightybooboo (Feb 10, 2004)

painterswife said:


> Okay, where are the instructions to make my tin-foil hat?. They must be here somewhere.


YOUTUBE is your friend,everything you need to know right here.

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dgQ5_SwwWts[/ame]


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## AngieM2 (May 10, 2002)

painterswife said:


> Okay, where are the instructions to make my tin-foil hat?. They must be here somewhere.


For a more industrial look, a collander covered with a thick coat of tin foil, and you can add a flower to the edge for style, looks nice.


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## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

AngieM2 said:


> For a more industrial look, a collander covered with a thick coat of tin foil, and you can add a flower to the edge for style, looks nice.


That would work well. I have a lot of curly hair and it would all fit in. Could do double duty as a head guard when I am trimming the horses feet.


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## stanb999 (Jan 30, 2005)

A heavy tin hat can be useful for a riot as well. Look for guidance from Egypt.

:cowboy:


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## mightybooboo (Feb 10, 2004)

stanb999 said:


> A heavy tin hat can be useful for a riot as well. Look for guidance from Egypt.
> 
> :cowboy:


VERY nice!


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## farmerpat (Jan 1, 2008)

Gee, who'd have known we ALL have emergency helmets close at hand for when TSHTF?!


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## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

farmerpat said:


> Gee, who'd have known we ALL have emergency helmets close at hand for when TSHTF?!


But what happens when you have to make the choice to either be safe or make chili?


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## earthkitty (Mar 3, 2011)

belladulcinea said:


> World News Tonight!


 Do people really still watch that???


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## farmerpat (Jan 1, 2008)

painterswife said:


> I have been here though not an active poster for years. *I did not feel the need to post before as I gleaned the information I needed without having to post.* I asked a simple question because I wanted an answer.
> 
> Where did I bring picnic and rainbows into the discussion? No I simply asked *why there is not more balance*. You yourself pointed out that you have seen a rise in the doom and gloom.


It's a shame that you came only to get information, but didn't give any back via posting (your own words above). It's the give and take of ideas that make these boards a place to learn.

To answer your question: Because the world right now is very *UN*balanced. There is more BAD happening than good, and that is why it seems as if it is all doom and gloom. Alot of us focus on the bad because it is what has the potential to crush us if we don't pay attention to what's coming, and exchange useful ideas with others. We can all focus on the happy things, but those won't get us through when TSHTF. If you want more balance, might I respectfully suggest that there are other boards out there that you might find more to your liking. I belonged to another board but came to this one because this one is not filled with alot of nasty hate speech and blatant personal attacks. It also became too left-leaning for me, as I am more conservative in my leanings. I am very happy here, and will not go back to the other one even if it should be the only one up and running when TSHTF. People here are very nice, but they are also very realistic on the state of the world and of this country.

I personally do not look at it as doom and gloom. I look upon it as the rose-colored glasses of denial have come off, and whether we all like it or not, things ARE changing rapidly, and certainly NOT for the better.


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## earthkitty (Mar 3, 2011)

painterswife said:


> But what happens when you have to make the choice to either be safe or make chili?


Safety first, then chili.


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## earthkitty (Mar 3, 2011)

Seriously, the only person with whom I can discuss issues like this is my husband. He thinks like I do about all of this stuff, although to a lesser degree.

It is FANtastic to have a place where I can discuss all these topics with other people who have "paranoid personality disorder" as I understand it is called these days. 

Sheeple just look at you with that deer-in-the-headlights look when you mention real news or food insurance, rather than Weiner's weiner or Kim Kardashian or some such drivel.


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## Lilbitof4 (Mar 2, 2011)

I like to paint my tin foil hat pink and hang some toilet paper on top just in case my preps and I become separated. rincess: 

I agree. It's nice to be able to come somewhere and not feel so "out there". It's sad how many of our friends I try to engage in conversation about the current economy and all I get are glazed over eyes. I'm telling you... the average person just isn't thinking about and watching what's going on.


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## fordy (Sep 13, 2003)

painterswife said:


> But what happens when you have to make the choice to either be safe or make chili?




....................Actually , Mustaffa is fully prepared when TSHTHelmet , and IF it's lined with Tin foil , he can take an El Dumpo , then cook up a batch of Camel Tacos with a side of wavos ! , lol , fordy:icecream:


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## jlrbhjmnc (May 2, 2010)

Or you can disguise your tinfoil in an attractive covering, like Ernie...


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## Ohio Rusty (Jan 18, 2008)

..... It's not stylish if the color of your gun doesn't match your shoes .......

Ohio Rusty ><>


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## farmerpat (Jan 1, 2008)

Why does the Queen of England have a cake carrier on her head, and why does Kate's mom have a chip and dip tray on hers???? :grin:


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## therunbunch (Oct 5, 2009)

People are going to post what they feel is relevant or interesting. You have the power to read whatever posts you like and feel any way you want about what you choose to read. You can choose to let it bring you down or wonder why/how people can live like that, or you can bring your salt shaker with ya like most of us do.

I think you got 5 pages of good responses.. and lots of variety. Any further explanation would probably be :bdh:

Don't forget the foam padding for your tin hat.. those things can get scratchy!:TFH:


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## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

therunbunch said:


> People are going to post what they feel is relevant or interesting. You have the power to read whatever posts you like and feel any way you want about what you choose to read. You can choose to let it bring you down or wonder why/how people can live like that, or you can bring your salt shaker with ya like most of us do.
> 
> I think you got 5 pages of good responses.. and lots of variety. Any further explanation would probably be :bdh:
> 
> Don't forget the foam padding for your tin hat.. those things can get scratchy!:TFH:


You may have judged it a dead horse, others may not. I am always willing to hear new conversation.

Luckily my curly hair offers good padding. I won't need too much foam. It can cause overheating and that is bad for the brain waves.


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## beaglebiz (Aug 5, 2008)

farmerpat said:


> Why does the Queen of England have a cake carrier on her head, and why does Kate's mom have a chip and dip tray on hers???? :grin:


I STILL say Her Royal Highness is checking our Ernie out


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## therunbunch (Oct 5, 2009)

painterswife said:


> You may have judged it a dead horse, others may not. I am always willing to hear new conversation.
> 
> Luckily my curly hair offers good padding. I won't need too much foam. It can cause overheating and that is bad for the brain waves.


I was not blessed with curly hair. My hair is pretty boring.


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## therunbunch (Oct 5, 2009)

beaglebiz said:


> I STILL say Her Royal Highness is checking our Ernie out


Must be the pecs? :shrug: Her hat looks like a cake. I'd like to eat it.


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## Spinner (Jul 19, 2003)

earthkitty said:


> Seriously, the only person with whom I can discuss issues like this is my husband. He thinks like I do about all of this stuff, although to a lesser degree.
> 
> It is FANtastic to have a place where I can discuss all these topics with other people who have "paranoid personality disorder" as I understand it is called these days.
> 
> Sheeple just look at you with that deer-in-the-headlights look when you mention real news or food insurance, rather than Weiner's weiner or Kim Kardashian or some such drivel.


It's great that you can discuss issues with DH. I can't, mine looks at me like I have antenna growing out the top of my head. DD is the same, she out and out told me that I have "paranoid personality disorder", or something close to that (she actually told me I should apply for disability so I can get treatment!) One of my son's threatened to turn me in to "hoarders" to get my house cleaned out b/c I have too many 5 gallon buckets to suit him. He wants them gone and the spare room made over into a cute guest room. :smack Hoarders would laugh at him since my house looks normal until you dig deep to find the goodies. 

In the near future, I may need to build a bunker to hide my stuff from my family! :flame:

The only people I can talk to about prepping and the state of the country/world is one son, and my online friends.


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## bourbonred (Feb 27, 2008)

I was able to discuss the idea of a kill zone around my house, and also of taking out a bridge to slow down the zombies on this forum. I mean, where else can a girl go to find friends like that, huh? I got great advice!
Dh is only 1/2 way into the prepper fold. He gets really uptight over anything gloom-doomy. I don't want the world to crash, but my head keeps following these scenarios...what if's. It's like a survival puzzle. What would I do if this, or what if this happened there. It makes me think on my feet, so to speak. I can discuss these thoughts with the guys & girls here without feeling out of step with the culture.


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## whiskeylivewire (May 27, 2009)

therunbunch said:


> Must be the pecs? :shrug: Her hat looks like a cake. I'd like to eat it.


I'm still giggling about this one. You can have the cake...I just want the icing. In my estimation, cake's only purpose is to hold up the icing


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## manygoatsnmore (Feb 12, 2005)

Either the chip and dip hat or the Queen's Cake is an improvement over Cindy Lou Who, standing behind her grandma (Queen Elizabeth). That was the weirdest hat I've ever seen.


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## wvstuck (Sep 19, 2008)

Gloom and Doom is everywhere! Or could it be called something else like reality or truthfulness in action. Gloom and Doom is my everyday life right now and I haven't even been here on HT in a while. Moving to our BOL has become an adventure of gigantic proportions, but is progessing nicely... It is everything I wanted in a dream come true... But hard work can't always compensate for not enough daylight. 

The "Gloom and Doom" is taking center stage, it is all over the front pages of newspapers, televisions, the churches, job sites, feed store & barber shop conversations and just about everywhere else you turn. If anyone feels S&EP is the only place this is occurring then they need to go out into the "real world" and just listen to the conversations people across America are having everyday. Reality is staring us in the face and many have chosen not to be bystanders in this round. World events are shaping up to be messed up on a historic level. I personally hope the disaster waiting just up the road can be diverted, I don't want it to happen, I want my children to have a better America than I had... But that isn't the case I fear, The President acts unilatterally when making decisions and even ignores the courts when ordered to take a different path. Congress is bought and paid for by special interests and can't drop the profit for themselves to make the changes neccessary and the economy is far from healthy and still has to fall a good ways before a real correction can be made. 

Gloom and doom you say! Have you seen feed prices, seed prices (not packets but sacks), Fertilizer prices, fuel prices and hay prices... These things all affect the way we live in reality in rural America trying to grow food for those that don't live in a rural area. Farmers are going belly up everyday... 

I can accept that you live a different life than me, but I can't understand why you won't accept difference even when it is explained to you so many times by so many people. I and others on this board are living SHTF at the moment for many different reasons. For me it rained for so many months that crops were delayed a month or more past the plantings, now it is so dry that the dust is begging for relief. Wheat yeilds are going to be very bad this year, corn will be a half crop at best across the country.... Do you have any idea how those two things alone are going to affect people? It is going to be catastropic for the little lady that just had people come in and cut her some firewood... Her SS check won't cover the increase in food costs. This isn't Gloom and Doom, IT IS THE REALITY STARING EVERYONE IN THE FACE!

I've only covered the food and farming part, some others covered the economic and govermental parts already... If Gloom and Doom really makes you shut down, give up and not try harder because it sounds so bad.... Then you may be headed for some rougher times, because according to some of the best trends forecasters, top financial advisors, farming oganizations and even the CBO... The Gloom and Doom is just getting started... This is not a practice drill "IN CASE" the Russians drop bombs... This is a real world scenario playing out and the FUBAR bombs have already been dropped and exploded.

I don't do tin foil, I don't wear a hat... I just live like my grandparents did and keep a good larder on hand.... The people here on S&EP have been instrumental to helping plan for things I didn't see and the Bunker Index is a quick reference guide to the realism of the World Today. 

Step back, turn around and look at the big picture, not your Town, not your County not your State not even just the good ole U.S.A.... But look at the events of the world playing out everyday and understand that the FIAT way of life is coming to an end.

If I or someone else started a thread titled "Why is everyone so happy, when its obivous the world is ending" Would people flame us, probably not, unless we just kept asking questions in a way that seemed we didn't care or respect a different way of thinking...

....Just saying!


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## therunbunch (Oct 5, 2009)

whiskeylivewire said:


> I'm still giggling about this one. You can have the cake...I just want the icing. In my estimation, cake's only purpose is to hold up the icing



See, we'd have to fight then, because I view cake the same way. Tell you what, you take the left side and I'll take the right. It's not every day you meet someone that likes icing... my husband usually lets me have his, he hates the stuff. I was always the only kid at the birthday parties wanting a corner piece LOL. Oh.. and the ring around the bottom of the cake? Bet you scrape that up and pop it on top of your serving of cake too, don't you?


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## earthkitty (Mar 3, 2011)

wvstuck said:


> gloom and doom is everywhere! Or could it be called something else like reality or truthfulness in action. Gloom and doom is my everyday life right now and i haven't even been here on ht in a while. Moving to our bol has become an adventure of gigantic proportions, but is progessing nicely... It is everything i wanted in a dream come true... But hard work can't always compensate for not enough daylight.
> 
> The "gloom and doom" is taking center stage, it is all over the front pages of newspapers, televisions, the churches, job sites, feed store & barber shop conversations and just about everywhere else you turn. If anyone feels s&ep is the only place this is occurring then they need to go out into the "real world" and just listen to the conversations people across america are having everyday. Reality is staring us in the face and many have chosen not to be bystanders in this round. World events are shaping up to be messed up on a historic level. I personally hope the disaster waiting just up the road can be diverted, i don't want it to happen, i want my children to have a better america than i had... But that isn't the case i fear, the president acts unilatterally when making decisions and even ignores the courts when ordered to take a different path. Congress is bought and paid for by special interests and can't drop the profit for themselves to make the changes neccessary and the economy is far from healthy and still has to fall a good ways before a real correction can be made.
> 
> ...



brilliant post...bravo.


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## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

wvstuck said:


> Gloom and Doom is everywhere! Or could it be called something else like reality or truthfulness in action. Gloom and Doom is my everyday life right now and I haven't even been here on HT in a while. Moving to our BOL has become an adventure of gigantic proportions, but is progessing nicely... It is everything I wanted in a dream come true... But hard work can't always compensate for not enough daylight.
> 
> The "Gloom and Doom" is taking center stage, it is all over the front pages of newspapers, televisions, the churches, job sites, feed store & barber shop conversations and just about everywhere else you turn. If anyone feels S&EP is the only place this is occurring then they need to go out into the "real world" and just listen to the conversations people across America are having everyday. Reality is staring us in the face and many have chosen not to be bystanders in this round. World events are shaping up to be messed up on a historic level. I personally hope the disaster waiting just up the road can be diverted, I don't want it to happen, I want my children to have a better America than I had... But that isn't the case I fear, The President acts unilatterally when making decisions and even ignores the courts when ordered to take a different path. Congress is bought and paid for by special interests and can't drop the profit for themselves to make the changes neccessary and the economy is far from healthy and still has to fall a good ways before a real correction can be made.
> 
> ...


I accept the difference but I far from understand it.

Hard times do not equate with the need for doom and gloom. Hard times are a way of life for many, that does not mean there is not or should not be joy and happiness in them. I guess it is about expectations. I expect life to be an ebb and flow not a constant gain, maybe that is why I don't see bad times as doom and gloom.


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## earthkitty (Mar 3, 2011)

painterswife said:


> I don't see bad times as doom and gloom.


You are the one who labeled it as such.

Our label is survival and preparedness.


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## farmerpat (Jan 1, 2008)

painterswife said:


> maybe that is why I don't see bad times as doom and gloom.


Well, I'm completely lost now because from your original post and the ones that followed, it seems as if you DO see doom and gloom. It seems as if you are contradicting your original statements. 

Oh never mind....just time to let this lie.

And WVSTUCK --- BRAVO!!! BRAVO!!!!!! :clap: You have very succinctly summed up what alot of us are feeling and experiencing! I've bought numerous books of first-hand accounts of the first Great Depression, and have read and re-read them so that I know how those people actually eked out a living and how they managed to survive. I found alot of things that I hadn't thought of that I hope will get me and my family through what's coming.


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## Justin Thyme (Jun 3, 2011)

Seeing doom, feeling gloom and preparing to survive the doom you see coming down the tracks is the purpose.
P-R-E-P-A-R-A-T-I-O-N & S-U-R-V-I-V-A-L
It hardly matters if it the apocalypse with four horsemen on steeds of fire or financial collapse. 
P-R-E-P-A-R-A-T-I-O-N can lead to S-U-R-V-I-V-A-L
We all want S-U-R-V-I-V-A-L, regardless of the emergency we are preparing for. Some of the basics for P-R-E-P-A-R-A-T-I-O-N will be common for any and all. Take what works for you and leave the rest.
I think you have gotten the reaction you have in that it appears you were questioning some folks motivation and mindset. Asking how they can be "happy" and have what appears to be a D&G mindset.
One person's D&G is someone else's emergency.
P-R-E-P-A-R-A-T-I-O-N for S-U-R-V-I-V-A-L for any & every emergency.


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## GrannyCarol (Mar 23, 2005)

Ernie said:


> Well, I apologize for the roughness of my tone if you were asking honestly, painterswife.
> 
> What you see here is NOT what you get. It's a very specific forum dedicated to very specific topics.
> 
> ...


Awwww, ya left me out!! I look at it.... put my faith in the Lord, who said He would provide and do whatever preps I happen to enjoy and desire doing. 

I am quite aware of the events and the spirit behind them and quite sure that our country is going down into a very different country than the one it was meant to be. That's easy, it's already most of the way there. I'm in my mid 50's and this world is entirely different from the one I was raised in. The more I look, the more I see I need to approach my God to deliver me from the evil that is rampant around me.

Does that make me a "doom and gloomer"? No, not at all. There is much joy in my Lord. 

I see two things - one is that this country is going to go through some very tough times financially and politically and that this is already a done deal. It's not even "going to", its "going to continue to and get worse". That's realism. This country will be globalist, already is globalist and will move more in that direction. Our currency must be fitted into its place in the global society, we cannot remain free and strong because that threatens the power structure of the powers that run this world. It is foolish to think there aren't men rich enough and powerful enough to want to shape the world to keep their riches and power, it's just how men are. 

The other thing I see coming, but not so soon, is the real "end of the world". That one I do look forward to, as the coming of the Lord Jesus in judgment will be the end of sin and the beginning of complete joy. That is where I desire to be "prepped" through sitting in fellowship with God and His people, being shaped by Him to be fit to hold His Holy Spirit, knowing the 7th day of rest and the 8th day of an entirely different reality. Those things I can walk in today, but will not be complete until the end of this world... the one where Lucifer is prince and evil is at the head. 

As for the original question, I know things are going to get rough, I know God is there for His People and I know I need His provision to a far greater degree than I do today. I want the preps like Apostle Paul, when he said that he did not want, that he knew how to be full and hungry at the same time and I know that is because he had joy and life in the Father at all times. Otherwise, sure, can fruits and veggies, keep my pantry full, etc. I live 70 miles from a real grocery store, I keep food on hand. I enjoy canning and cooking and eating wholesome foods in a day when the food you get at the store is garbage and probably toxic. 

Of course I am one that finds my grandfather's saying to be funny - "Cheer up! I've seen it go on like this for days and gradually get worse!"


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## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

GrannyCarol said:


> Of course I am one that finds my grandfather's saying to be funny - "Cheer up! I've seen it go on like this for days and gradually get worse!"


Love that saying. Makes me laugh and smile.


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## wyld thang (Nov 16, 2005)

Here's the deal, we Americans who were raised post WW2 were raised in an unusual freak bubble of extreme productive growth, huge technological advance, unbelievable prosperity. Any student of history will tell you what a rare and fleeting bubble that is. Any honest student of history will tell you we are spoiled brats.

Thing is, most doomers see that bubble as "normal", and anything happening that truly is "normal" for human history--war, rumors of war, famine, tribal strife, immorality etc--is shocking and the apocalypse MUST be here. There is nothing new under the sun, modern man has no special worserness over what has gone before. At least these days if a queen, um, president's wife, were bathing in the blood of virgins, at least half the country would be pretty hacked off and DO something about it. 

The problem with doom and gloom is that partakers end up obsessing about "everything sucks" and there is no conversation about positive action(and no, I don't mean merely positive personal action of squirrelling away cans of spam). Seems to me it's the ultimate in spoiledness and unthankfulness--no appreciation for the uniqueness of the past 60 years and all the good that came out of it(civil rights, new technology, a great head start in SUSTAINABLE technology, a global caring about what happens around the world--fumbling though that may be). 

But like it usually goes, well-fed turns into gluttony, and gluttony turns into mind numbed self indulgence. America will fail because of its gluttony, not because a democrat is president.


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## wyld thang (Nov 16, 2005)

GrannyCarol said:


> As for the original question, I know things are going to get rough, I know God is there for His People and I know I need His provision to a far greater degree than I do today. I want the preps like Apostle Paul, when he said that he did not want, that he knew how to be full and hungry at the same time and I know that is because he had joy and life in the Father at all times. Otherwise, sure, can fruits and veggies, keep my pantry full, etc. I live 70 miles from a real grocery store, I keep food on hand. I enjoy canning and cooking and eating wholesome foods in a day when the food you get at the store is garbage and probably toxic.
> 
> Of course I am one that finds my grandfather's saying to be funny - "Cheer up! I've seen it go on like this for days and gradually get worse!"


Awesome point!

My grandpa always used to say(which this had special emphasis growing in Seattle rain) IT IS ALWAYS SUNNY ABOVE THE CLOUDS


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## Ohio Rusty (Jan 18, 2008)

Retirement homes are full of people that are still alive that lived thru the depression. Occasionally I get to meet one of these folks and pick their brain about what they remember and what they went thru. They are dying off day by day. Learn what they know before they are all gone ..... Their knowledge and experiences are what you should know now to get you thru the same hard times, just a different year and place.

Ohio Rusty ><>


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## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

wyld thang said:


> Here's the deal, we Americans who were raised post WW2 were raised in an unusual freak bubble of extreme productive growth, huge technological advance, unbelievable prosperity. Any student of history will tell you what a rare and fleeting bubble that is. Any honest student of history will tell you we are spoiled brats.
> 
> Thing is, most doomers see that bubble as "normal", and anything happening that truly is "normal" for human history--war, rumors of war, famine, tribal strife, immorality etc--is shocking and the apocalypse MUST be here. There is nothing new under the sun, modern man has no special worserness over what has gone before. At least these days if a queen, um, president's wife, were bathing in the blood of virgins, at least half the country would be pretty hacked off and DO something about it.
> 
> ...


You get my "Post of the day" vote.


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## GrannyCarol (Mar 23, 2005)

So, positive action.... perhaps an armed revolt? That, if led by the Spirit of God, is the only thing I see that could save this country and I don't see any chance of that happening. I know He didn't call me to do that, in fact He was quite clear on that. 

Positive action doesn't include voting. There is no one that runs for office that does it outside of the prince of this world, it's just how it is today. Should I pick the lesser of two evils? No, if a man runs that God puts His stamp on, then I'll vote. What does God have to do with the government this world is under? He has another world, His creation, the real world, which is separate from this life. He has another government, a King, which I desire to be my king. 

I don't see God being all about making this world a better place, its Lucifer's kingdom today and he's the one making "a kingdom like the Most High God" in his power and his idea of "good". I see this world as a place where God is calling His people OUT of, into a new life. When He's done with that, then He's done with this physical world and He will come with 10,000 Saints to clean it up. 

Better to seek to be one of those than to seek the comforts of this world. I say that and know how much I fail, but how merciful God is towards me.


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## texican (Oct 4, 2003)

GrannyCarol said:


> Of course I am one that finds my grandfather's saying to be funny - "Cheer up! I've seen it go on like this for days and gradually get worse!"


That's a good 'un...

No matter how bad things are, they can always get worse...

In the real world, I try and not vocally complain too much (even if no one else is around).... last time I really got mad and complained, things got worse, then worse, then it all just collapsed in on itself. Luckily, wads of cash sometimes fix the 'problem'.


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## wyld thang (Nov 16, 2005)

GrannyCarol said:


> So, positive action.... perhaps an armed revolt? That, if led by the Spirit of God, is the only thing I see that could save this country and I don't see any chance of that happening. I know He didn't call me to do that, in fact He was quite clear on that.


wow, I was thinking more along the lines of volunteering in schools, organizing(hehe) community gardens, volunteering in schools, reaching out to get to know one's neighbor(even if they aren't "churched"), mentoring a lonely kid, teaching your own kids to think with clarity and honesty and to value TRUTH(as it is, not as we determine as Grand Poohbahs), providing work for the unemployable, caring for the widow and the orphan, sharing joy, simple living, volunteering in school, sharing resources, spreading frugality and temperance(in using resources, does NOT mean alcohol), sharing a good meal and laughing with one's neighbor(even though they aren't "churched"), demanding transparency and integrity from elected leaders and legislation, sharing clean real food with that kid who eats twinkies(which means inviting them into your home), volunteering in school, loving the people God has given you to live your life with deeply and as hard as possible and having a big heart to find the new ones He sends along. That kind of positive stuff. "Make love, not war".

There is a place for armed revolt or defense. But it means nothing if there isn't something real and positive to fill the vacuum. And if you live your life as if God doesn't want to make this world a better place, then there will be NOTHING to fill the vacuum, and armed revolt becomes pointless. Flaccid. Impotent. Frigid. (going back to the make love not war analogy).


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## fordy (Sep 13, 2003)

GrannyCarol said:


> So, positive action.... perhaps an armed revolt? That, if led by the Spirit of God, is the only thing I see that could save this country and I don't see any chance of that happening. I know He didn't call me to do that, in fact He was quite clear on that.
> 
> Positive action doesn't include voting. There is no one that runs for office that does it outside of the prince of this world, it's just how it is today. Should I pick the lesser of two evils? No, if a man runs that God puts His stamp on, then I'll vote. What does God have to do with the government this world is under? He has another world, His creation, the real world, which is separate from this life. He has another government, a King, which I desire to be my king.
> 
> ...


.....................Seems we were willing too shed blood when things were first getting started , and I'm left wondering IF we may have too revert back too 'Black Powder Justice' too achieve the changes that are needed too bring our so called elected officials back into conformity with the basic tenets of our Constitution ! This , then , begs the question , just how much killing of our citizens is Law Enforcement and the Nat'l Guard willing too participate IN , before they join our side too fix a totally corrupted federal gov't ? , fordy:flameproofundies:


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## TNHermit (Jul 14, 2005)

People need to remember while they are prepping and wanting this country to change for the better that only around 20% supported the first revolution. So if your lookin for a big uprising forget it. The few will do what the many will benefit from. the question is who are the few

for the ones that think what is going on in this world is to end up being a kingdom of satan. Doesn't say much for grand master that he would waste a good planet and thumb it noise all those people spill their blood for freedom. And it lied when it gave the earth to man and said subdue it. You can give me my freedom here and condemn to live for eternity where I live any day


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## GrannyCarol (Mar 23, 2005)

wyld thang said:


> ....
> There is a place for armed revolt or defense. But it means nothing if there isn't something real and positive to fill the vacuum. And if you live your life as if God doesn't want to make this world a better place, then there will be NOTHING to fill the vacuum, and armed revolt becomes pointless. Flaccid. Impotent. Frigid. (going back to the make love not war analogy).


If you believe that life is of and for this world, what you say is correct. If you believe God that this "world" is inherently sin (separated from God) and that He alone is good, then things become different. If I spend my energy trying to "fix" this world, which is unfixable, then how will I preach the real Gospel - that God is alive, He has a will and a plan for any that will follow Him and it is NOT what we think it is, but what He wants. 

You speak of "making love, not war", that has nothing to do with the living God, the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, that one that sent His Son to give us a path of reconciliation (which we need because we are born a part of this world and are sin by our basic nature). There are lots of other "gods" (spirits, energies, masters) that say a lot of other things and which we naturally believe - I know I do. But there is only one real God, the one that created all things. He said He is love.... like the definition of it. When I heard that, what I thought was love (good feelings, making people happy, peace with men) had to go and I knew that what comes down from Him is love and what doesn't, isn't. 

He is the God of peace, but He speaks of making peace with HIM, not with men. His Son, Jesus Christ, came and said "Suppose ye that I am come to give peace on earth? I tell you, Nay; but rather division" (Luke 12:51). His people will be divided from this world and given peace with God. 

True love is to speak the Truth, which will separate from the world. In the world there will be wars and divisions... but if men will follow God, all is changed. He has judgment for the "world", not peace with it. 

However, if there were to be a revolution led by the Spirit of God, how can you possibly think that it would be empty? It's the only sort of revolution that would have any meaning! This country was formed by a group of men, many of which knew the living God and desired a representation of the liberty He gives His people and others willing to be a part of it. He had a hand in forming this nation, but what He had a hand in is now terribly corrupted and the heart of this people is peace with men, not with God. There will be no revolution, don't worry about it. 

Men, myself included, are filled with "good works" and compassion (of men, for men), things that make us feel good about ourselves and even make others feel good for a time. They have no lasting value, unless they lead towards the living God, they are entirely vain, we are paid for them in our good feelings. Now, that's not to say I don't do such things - after all they make me feel good, they make others feel good! However, they are not from God, they are my own work. If they interfere with His work, then I want to know not to do them. Something might seem bad to me, but it might bring a person to call out to God for salvation and, in the end, be the best thing that happened to them. I am not God, I don't know... but He is alive and speaks to His people and I can know by His Spirit if my "good works" will interfere with His plans. A person's eternal salvation is a lot more important then their comfort today. I say that against my own self, I like my comfort and that interferes with my own following of God.


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## wyld thang (Nov 16, 2005)

When I say "make love, not war", sure I use that phrase on purpose, in order to include all "like minded"*** people of different walks of life--not just make this a Christian thing(even though, I *am* Christian, just to be clear, if that wasn't). Trying to distill what I was thinking down into the simplest possible communication that will cross different ideologies and cultures. I think everyone on earth has a sense of "love"--God/the universe put it into our being, it's in us emotionally, chemically, we are attracted to it, naturally.

Personally I think Jesus life follows that jingle, "make love, not war". Well, mostly.... The only people he "made war" on were the self righteous Pharisees who kept themselves apart to uphold their purity and wield their authority. 

Revolution by the Spirit of God--who determines that? what if the spirit in you says make war, and the spirit in me says make love? Men formed this nation, and gave it a foundation out of their deist beliefs, but our nation has never made a covenant with God(as the Jews did). Really, what is wrong with our nation that some self control, integrity, discipline and personal responsibility(and oh yeah, love) on the part of its people wont "fix"? 

The rest is just a matter of dogma and I won't waste time arguing that. Just enough to say I deeply disagree that Christians are to be separate(of Godly character and conduct *yes*, but physically and relationally, NO) and turn their back on this world. 

Nevertheless, "faith without works is dead". Jesus definatly told us to DO and BE.

***I like to leave my hat on  yes yes yes


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## GrannyCarol (Mar 23, 2005)

Wyld Thang... If the Spirit in me says one thing and the spirit in you says another, then we don't follow the same spirit. That's simple enough, every man has to choose what spirit they follow, but the one God says one thing and it does matter in the end which spirit we choose. There are consequences. 

I agree, no point in arguing over spiritual matters, each man has to be convinced of whom and what to believe and each will choose. Time for me to let this one go.


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## wyld thang (Nov 16, 2005)

GrannyCarol said:


> Wyld Thang... If the Spirit in me says one thing and the spirit in you says another, then we don't follow the same spirit.


Aye. But just wanted to say I noticed you spelled your spirit with a big S, and my spirit and the spirit you dont' follow with a small s, implying yours is God and mine/the one you do not follow is not-God. um, thanks.


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## PhilJohnson (Dec 24, 2006)

We've gotten lucky here in the US. We have nothing in living memory that compares to the atrocities that have happened on every other continent (besides perhaps Australia). We don't have the same reminders that other nations do of previous SHTFs, so it makes it easy to believe that doom and gloom is over blown. We've always lived under a stable government, starvation in our nation (last 80 years) has only happened to the incapable or the proud, we have plenty which means even our poorest can live much better lives than folks that would be considered well off in other nations. 

Our days living as an insulated nation are coming to an end. We have a destabilizing nation to our south, a heavy reliance on imported energy, massive trade deficit which is slowly draining domestic investment. I don't go wringing my hands everyday thinking about it but it is pretty obvious unless the folks in Washington make some very unpopular decisions (raise taxes, cut services, tackle the trade deficit problem ect) the chances of us averting some sort of meltdown is pretty slim. What that will entail I have no idea.


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## Ernie (Jul 22, 2007)

I don't know any rational thinking person who DOESN'T believe there's some sort of long-term crisis approaching. They differ on the severity, the scope, and the cause, but pretty much everyone who has been paying attention realizes that this is a changing time and things can't continue on as they have been.


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## Justin Thyme (Jun 3, 2011)

PhilJohnson said:


> We've gotten lucky here in the US. We have nothing in living memory that compares to the atrocities that have happened on every other continent (besides perhaps Australia). We don't have the same reminders that other nations do of previous SHTFs, so it makes it easy to believe that doom and gloom is over blown. We've always lived under a stable government, starvation in our nation (last 80 years) has only happened to the incapable or the proud, we have plenty which means even our poorest can live much better lives than folks that would be considered well off in other nations.
> 
> Our days living as an insulated nation are coming to an end. We have a destabilizing nation to our south, a heavy reliance on imported energy, massive trade deficit which is slowly draining domestic investment. I don't go wringing my hands everyday thinking about it but it is pretty obvious unless the folks in Washington make some very unpopular decisions (raise taxes, cut services, tackle the trade deficit problem ect) the chances of us averting some sort of meltdown is pretty slim. What that will entail I have no idea.


All true. But most if not all of this could be greatly ameliorated by governmental policy that at this time is simply aggravating the problem(s), not solving them.


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## lorian (Sep 4, 2005)

I come to read on this forum about once a week. I love it. BUT if I'm having a bad week or feeling anxious, I don't check in. Sometimes it adds to my anxiety and I have to shore myself up before I start reading/learning/planning again.

I think everyone has something to add here, including the doomers.

When I read of all the fantastic preps people are working on sometimes I start to worry that I'm not doing enough. But I am trying and praying and that has to be enough for now, I know that ultimately worrying doesn't really help.


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## ryanthomas (Dec 10, 2009)

If this forum is your whole life, then yes your life is unbalanced. If, however, reading and posting here is a small part of your life, then you still have plenty of room for balance. I spend a few minutes reading here several times a day, but in between all those short breaks is my everyday life, which is filled to the brim and overflowing with blessings. My life is very much unbalanced toward the good news, but there's no need to prep for that. Good news brings its own survival supplies along with it.


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## ryanthomas (Dec 10, 2009)

I like how I ignored this thread for six pages, then I post once and it's dead.


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## postroad (Jan 19, 2009)

I am amused at the battle of S/spirits. I always find that interesting.


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