# Meth



## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

I have away from my home area since 1980. In that time a lot of people I grew up with have died because of drugs.

The scourge here has been meth.

I just had my 40th HS reunion. We had a very good turnout. Our class has always been pretty tight. It was 120 people, about 15 have died, and we had 62 in attendance. Oddly about half those that did not come live here.

One that came was a close friend of mine back in the day. He spent some time with me at my home and we got to talk about a lot of things.

He is visibly affected by drugs. His health is failing. He stopped using about 3 or 4 years ago. He was a heavy user of meth and coke since leaving HS. He spent a lot of time in the drug culture.

Oddly enough, he raised two well adjusted kids and worked in a very specialized and technical trade this whole time.


Anyway, the point I wanted to make, and what I learned from him is how heavily Mexico is involved in meth. I always thought it was some backwater chemist cooking poison.

He tells me Mexicans operate in two ways. One is making it there and importing here. The higher quality, and higher volumes come that way.

The other way is that they find abandoned rural buildings and set up shop long enough to make a big batch and then leave a mess.

The Cancun thread prompted me to post this.

On a positive note - My friend has found Christ and he is slowly working himself upright.


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

From a local paper -

“The arrests of Carlos Uleces Rodriges Gamboa, Carlos Oswaldo Morales Marescal, and Dario Angel Andrejol Real is another example of how local, state and federal law enforcement work together every day to make our communities a safe place to live,” said Special Agent-in-Charge Callahan. “Working together, multiple law enforcement agencies prevented the distribution of 40 pounds of crystal methamphetamine hitting the streets of southeast Missouri.”


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## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

The people arrested for meth production in my area are rural, white, and (in general) poor. 

I'm glad your friend turned his life around.


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## TripleD (Feb 12, 2011)

Meth Hill is a community of about 100 two miles from my place. At least 2 meth labs busted each year. Trailer park I call Crack Alley is about a mile away. The largest pill pusher in the county lives about 3/4 of a mile from me. I live in a perfect spot !!!


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## 4tu (Jul 24, 2018)

sounds xenophobic to me --- NOT.

The U.S. keeps track of chemicals used in the manufacturing of meth, in Mexico there is no regulation local or use or importation from China that cannot be gotten around by bribes, graft, and fear of reprisals from gangs. 

The can arrest leaders day in and day out but, like a terror organization there is always one in line to fill the space. if they take out a whole gang it will be like the taking out of the mafia which was a throttle on criminal activity now instead of dozens of gangs there are hundreds. the Estimated number of gangs in the U.S. is 35,000 by FBI statistics. Gangs have a military structure and are controlled by a criminal governing body that dictates the direction and policy rules and laws of the organization. People think it's the wild west, it's not an outsider cannot understand it is a war between countries each cartel or gang is it's own region and any crossing of borders theft of currency or worse defection is dealt with. There used to be rules, where families were killed now women and children are as much a target for kidnapping and killing -- equal rights gotta love it.

The Border is our main problem it is not only porous but the wave of money that flows back and forth digitally and physically it a daily threat, it creates an economy that criminals thrive on any interruption and people start dying, it's like cutting off a food source for these freaks nut it has to be done or our children will have more and easier access to drugs if it is not bad enough.


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

Well said @4tu


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## Alice In TX/MO (May 10, 2002)

Absolutely.


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## Elevenpoint (Nov 17, 2009)

HDRider said:


> From a local paper -
> 
> “The arrests of Carlos Uleces Rodriges Gamboa, Carlos Oswaldo Morales Marescal, and Dario Angel Andrejol Real is another example of how local, state and federal law enforcement work together every day to make our communities a safe place to live,” said Special Agent-in-Charge Callahan. “Working together, multiple law enforcement agencies prevented the distribution of 40 pounds of crystal methamphetamine hitting the streets of southeast Missouri.”


Southeast Missouri is bad...but out of 114 counties I live in the poorest one in the state...the next five poorest border this one...an ajoining county is number one for opioid epidemic..too much rural area to stop the production here


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## muleskinner2 (Oct 7, 2007)

HDRider said:


> I have away from my home area since 1980. In that time a lot of people I grew up with have died because of drugs.
> 
> The scourge here has been meth.
> 
> ...


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## big rockpile (Feb 24, 2003)

Around here on public land this time of year cookers camp out for two weeks a month and cook in the brush.

I've learned how to spot users around here, some very simple ways that most wouldn't notice.

What gets me is so many are hard workers but while not working it is party time. So many I know grew up smoking Marijuana, they quit because it was being too easy to spot from the air not so much Marijuana being a Gate Way Drug but METH being easier to conceal.

Been awhile but have seen dealers get killed not playing right. One was killed and burnt where I fish. Know one Dealer that should be in prison but Local Law rather he be a snitch for them.

Yes a lot of drugs do come from Mexico but yes there is a bunch being cooked locally.

big rockpile


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## Ryan. (Aug 3, 2018)

I live in rural Iowa and while it is a small area there is a big presence of meth. On my families property is an abandoned dirt road that the county stopped maintaining decades ago because of its poor condition. My point is ever summer when I ride my four-wheeler through there I see people who have dumped their meth labs in the ditch and other things that make it very obvious there are drugs being made back in the woods. In the past 3 years, I have had the sheriff's department come out and they dispose of about 2 meth labs a year. It's pretty bad and it has affected my family so I understand the feeling of people who once knew and love being affected by meth.


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## Cornhusker (Mar 20, 2003)

I think manufacturing meth should be a capital offense.
Also, tighten up our borders and keep the drugs out.
Votes aren't worth the chaos.


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## AmericanStand (Jul 29, 2014)

Cornhusker said:


> I think manufacturing meth should be a capital offense.
> Also, tighten up our borders and keep the drugs out.
> Votes aren't worth the chaos.


 Why do you feel the need to control what other people do when it doesn’t effect you?


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## 1948CaseVAI (May 12, 2014)

AmericanStand said:


> Why do you feel the need to control what other people do when it doesn’t effect you?


I agree for those things that do not affect me! But dope affects me in many ways, not the least bit because I have children and grandchildron on the highways and I do not want any of them killed by some impaired driver. Also, most dopers go through a few cycles of rehab, if for no other reason than to satisfy some judge so they can cut their sentence a bit. Rehab is not cheap and you and I pay for it. Dope rehab is much more expensive than alcohol rehab, and the success rate is even worse than for alcohol.


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## Cornhusker (Mar 20, 2003)

AmericanStand said:


> Why do you feel the need to control what other people do when it doesn’t effect you?


It affects everybody.
Meth heads will rob your home to get their crap, they'll turn your neighborhood into a cesspool


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

They costs us in prison space, and in disability payments.


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## shawnlee (Apr 13, 2010)

Its a troubling epidemic for sure......


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## Evons hubby (Oct 3, 2005)

Cornhusker said:


> It affects everybody.
> Meth heads will rob your home to get their crap, they'll turn your neighborhood into a cesspool


Wrap them up with log chain and toss them in the cesspool? A meth head won't find much meth in my home, can't speak for yours. And we already have laws about stealing stuff. If meth, and other drugs, were legal they would also be affordable. We really do tend to create problems where we don't have one. But.... Meddlers are going to meddle.


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## Evons hubby (Oct 3, 2005)

HDRider said:


> They costs us in prison space, and in disability payments.


so decriminalize it, and do away with the disability payments. Problems solved.


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

Yvonne's hubby said:


> so decriminalize it, and do away with the disability payments. Problems solved.


Got my vote


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## Evons hubby (Oct 3, 2005)

1948CaseVAI said:


> I agree for those things that do not affect me! But dope affects me in many ways, not the least bit because I have children and grandchildron on the highways and I do not want any of them killed by some impaired driver. Also, most dopers go through a few cycles of rehab, if for no other reason than to satisfy some judge so they can cut their sentence a bit. Rehab is not cheap and you and I pay for it. Dope rehab is much more expensive than alcohol rehab, and the success rate is even worse than for alcohol.


It is illegal to drive while impaired... Stop paying for rehab.... Especially when it ineffective!


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## Redlands Okie (Nov 28, 2017)

Yvonne's hubby said:


> Wrap them up with log chain and toss them in the cesspool? A meth head won't find much meth in my home, can't speak for yours. And we already have laws about stealing stuff. If meth, and other drugs, were legal they would also be affordable. We really do tend to create problems where we don't have one. But.... Meddlers are going to meddle.


Meth is affordable for many if not most. That’s one of the problems. Legal does not make most drugs cheap or free.


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## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

Many addicts also have untreated mental illness, it's usually the reason they turn to drugs in the first place. Plus addiction itself is a mental illness. 

Someone with cancer isn't treated once and left to suffer on their own, are they? People with diabetes are treated for the rest of their lives. The addicted and mentally ill are no less people than anyone else who is ill.


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## AmericanStand (Jul 29, 2014)

It seems to me like any or the weapons in the war on drugs have escalated. 
It used to be most drugs were cheap natural substances that caused little long-term harm. But as the consequences of each drug became worse newer drugs hit the market that were harsher more complicated and had longer-term effects. 
Since we don’t seem to be able to stop the desire it would seem reasonable to mitigate the side effects by making them safe and inexpensive.


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## AmericanStand (Jul 29, 2014)

Cornhusker said:


> It affects everybody.
> Meth heads will rob your home to get their crap, they'll turn your neighborhood into a cesspool


Lol see now you are creating the problem you are complaining about. 
If somebody could legally raise a little marijuana or cocaine in their backyard it would be no incentive to steal your stuff. And those bad gardeners wouldn’t be stealing your stuff they would be swiping some from somebody else’s backyard. 
Can you see how making drugs illegal creates the problems that you complain about?


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## AmericanStand (Jul 29, 2014)

1948CaseVAI said:


> I have children and grandchildron on the highways and I do not want any of them killed by some impaired driver. .


 This is the one that bugs me the most of all. Highway safety is a big issue to me.
Sadly enough you have no right to safety.
Worse yet you can’t really expect.
However constitutionally we do have rights to freedom, in fact as much freedom as we possibly can have.
So choosing freedom over safety is the only constitutional choice.
That said there are reasonable things we can do to help with safety on the highway. As computerized as automobiles are nowadays a built-in impairment test shouldn’t be difficult at all. It would be fair and constitutional because it wouldn’t prohibit driving for anything other than not being able to drive
I don’t think there’s a problem with telling somebody that can’t drive they can’t drive.


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## Fishindude (May 19, 2015)

Interesting side note. I got asked for my ID the other day when purchasing a gallon of Coleman lantern fuel at the farm store. Apparently it is one of the ingredients used in making meth?


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## Evons hubby (Oct 3, 2005)

AmericanStand said:


> I don’t think there’s a problem with telling somebody that can’t drive they can’t drive.


sometimes people need to drive... Like when they can't walk. You are aware that the majority of people who are driving while impaired do make it home safe and sound... Right? That should make it obvious they can drive... Even if maybe they shouldn't.


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## AmericanStand (Jul 29, 2014)

Lol ok if they can drive there shouldn’t be a problem.


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## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

AmericanStand said:


> Lol ok if they can drive there shouldn’t be a problem.


I didn't get the logic in that post either.


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## Alice In TX/MO (May 10, 2002)

Sarcasm.


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## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

Alice In TX/MO said:


> Sarcasm.


I can't agree, this poster has said something similar to: a distracted soccer mom is more dangerous than a "careful" drunk driver in the past. 

Just my opinion tho.


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## Evons hubby (Oct 3, 2005)

Irish Pixie said:


> I can't agree, this poster has said something similar to: a distracted soccer mom is more dangerous than a "careful" drunk driver in the past.
> 
> Just my opinion tho.


Just pointing out facts..., that's ok though, I catch heck for it everytime the facts don't happen to align with popular opinion.


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## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

Yvonne's hubby said:


> Just pointing out facts..., that's ok though, I catch heck for it everytime the facts don't happen to align with popular opinion.


Definitely not sarcasm...


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## Evons hubby (Oct 3, 2005)

Irish Pixie said:


> Definitely not sarcasm...


Nope, just stating the facts. You may not like them, most folks don't, but they are true. Don't beleive me? Check the numbers...
https://seriousaccidents.com/legal-advice/top-causes-of-car-accidents/
"The number one cause of car accidents is not a criminal that drove drunk, sped or ran a red light. Distracted drivers are the top cause of car accidents in the U.S. today. A distracted driver is a motorist that diverts his or her attention from the road, usually to talk on a cell phone, send a text message or eat food."

There are lots more, just grabbed this one off the top of first page of Google search.


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## poppy (Feb 21, 2008)

TripleD said:


> Meth Hill is a community of about 100 two miles from my place. At least 2 meth labs busted each year. Trailer park I call Crack Alley is about a mile away. The largest pill pusher in the county lives about 3/4 of a mile from me. I live in a perfect spot !!!


Sounds like paradise. We have a meth lab or 2 busted every couple weeks and people sentenced for drugs, mainly meth, about every week in the local paper. Not all poor people either and many that are poor weren't until they got into meth.


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## barnbilder (Jul 1, 2005)

So you make meth legal. Next thing you know the people that make it are upping the price because of things like quality control and product safety. Anybody can buy it, anybody can make it, so to market your product you have to have an edge. Licensed grade A meth lab becomes the gold standard. Then people that are unencumbered by law to do meth can get it anywhere, but it's slightly more expensive. Next thing you know, they have to have a job to afford it. Here is where the trouble starts. You wreck your car, show up late for work, and so forth, and lose your job. Then what? You need an affordable drug, maybe one that you can make and sell yourself. If it is an illegal drug, so much the better, because that will eliminate any serious manufacturing competition. If you are not into manufacture, you can be a distributor, and make enough profit to supply your habit, because most grocery stores and so forth are not going to carry an illegal drug. Meth becomes legal, but loses it's desirability, and gets replaced by another illegal drug. It would be much easier for people to whack themselves on the head with an iron skillet until they feel silly, but we aren't wired that way.


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## TripleD (Feb 12, 2011)

poppy said:


> Sounds like paradise. We have a meth lab or 2 busted every couple weeks and people sentenced for drugs, mainly meth, about every week in the local paper. Not all poor people either and many that are poor weren't until they got into meth.


Paradise probably not but it will be a target rich environment if poop hits the fan....


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

> AmericanStand said: ↑
> Why do you feel the need to control what other people do when it doesn’t effect you?


You're the one who complains about "light pollution".



AmericanStand said:


> Can you see how making drugs illegal creates the problems that you complain about?


It's legal to make your own alcohol but drunks kill more people than firearms do.


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## AmericanStand (Jul 29, 2014)

barnbilder said:


> So you make meth legal. Next thing you know the people that make it are upping the price because of things like quality control and product safety. Anybody can buy it, anybody can make it, so to market your product you have to have an edge. Licensed grade A meth lab becomes the gold standard. Then people that are unencumbered by law to do meth can get it anywhere, but it's slightly more expensive. Next thing you know, they have to have a job to afford it. Here is where the trouble starts. You wreck your car, show up late for work, and so forth, and lose your job. Then what? You need an affordable drug, maybe one that you can make and sell yourself. If it is an illegal drug, so much the better, because that will eliminate any serious manufacturing competition. If you are not into manufacture, you can be a distributor, and make enough profit to supply your habit, because most grocery stores and so forth are not going to carry an illegal drug. Meth becomes legal, but loses it's desirability, and gets replaced by another illegal drug. It would be much easier for people to whack themselves on the head with an iron skillet until they feel silly, but we aren't wired that way.


Lol now that’s funny. The cure to the problem isn’t to make meth a legal drug it’s to make ALL drugs legally available. 
Notice how even in your scenario there weren’t any problems until dealing with illegal drugs.


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## Alice In TX/MO (May 10, 2002)

Portugal decriminalized drugs. It worked. 

https://news.vice.com/article/ungas...-after-decriminalization-drugs-weed-to-heroin


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## AmericanStand (Jul 29, 2014)

Actually I’ve heard it works very well.


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## barnbilder (Jul 1, 2005)

We didn't need meth back when everybody made their own alcohol. If you had mental problems that predisposed you to addiction then things were bad for you, but people could make, consume, buy sell trade as much as they wanted. Get the government involved and then people needed cheaper drugs, or more expensive drugs that come with their own built in cottage industry that funds their use. Make it illegal, regulate it, whatever, and you create a big mess.


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## Redlands Okie (Nov 28, 2017)

Alice In TX/MO said:


> Portugal decriminalized drugs. It worked.
> 
> https://news.vice.com/article/ungas...-after-decriminalization-drugs-weed-to-heroin


Drug possession by the user for a limited amount is legal. 10 days supply I think it’s said. Still illegal to sale etc. Their reporting success. Wonder how the cost are controlled and how they insure the addicts are able to afford their drugs without illegal activity.


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## thesedays (Feb 25, 2011)

Some medical ethicists have even discussed whether people who blow themselves up in meth lab explosions should even receive any treatment beyond comfort care. The reason this isn't done is because there's often a lot of collateral damage, usually involving children.

I used to live in an area with a large Amish population, and there were some meth lab busts involving the Amish. They also ran most of the puppy mills in this area.


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

SAN FRANCISCO - The San Francisco Health Commission on Tuesday voted unanimously to support the opening of safe injection sites, which will offer intravenous drug users a clean spot to inject drugs, despite the fact that this drug use is against the law and could draw the ire of the Trump Administration.

There are an estimated 22,000 IV drug users in San Francisco, and 100 injected drug overdose deaths a year in the city, according to Board Supervisor London Breed, who pushed for the centers and was on the SF Safe Injection Services Task Force.


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## AmericanStand (Jul 29, 2014)

Redlands Okie said:


> Drug possession by the user for a limited amount is legal. 10 days supply I think it’s said. Still illegal to sale etc. Their reporting success. Wonder how the cost are controlled and how they insure the addicts are able to afford their drugs without illegal activity.


They don’t its just with less risk and a more open supply the costs are more affordable.


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## wdcutrsdaughter (Dec 9, 2012)

HDRider said:


> SAN FRANCISCO - The San Francisco Health Commission on Tuesday voted unanimously to support the opening of safe injection sites, which will offer intravenous drug users a clean spot to inject drugs, despite the fact that this drug use is against the law and could draw the ire of the Trump Administration.
> 
> There are an estimated 22,000 IV drug users in San Francisco, and 100 injected drug overdose deaths a year in the city, according to Board Supervisor London Breed, who pushed for the centers and was on the SF Safe Injection Services Task Force.


What does that mean, a clean injection site? Clean needles or a nice living room or something?


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## FCLady (Jan 23, 2011)

I live in Ohio... my daughter didn't date anyone from our small town. I asked her why one day. Her response was one word. DRUGS. She couldn't find anyone her age not drinking too much or doing drugs around where we live. Sad.

Look at Ohio's stats. You'll never convince me drugs don't affect me. They affect me in LOTS of different ways... mostly my tax $ and my time being wasted.

In the same period, the number of heroin-related deaths increased from 355 to 1,478 deaths, and deaths related to synthetic opioids rose from 175 to 2,296 deaths.
https://www.drugabuse.gov/drugs-abuse/opioids/opioid-summaries-by-state/ohio-opioid-summary

The Surgeon General Says More People Should Carry Naloxone, the Opioid Antidote. Here's Where to Get It and How Much It Costs
http://time.com/5229870/naloxone-surgeon-general-cost-where-buy/

in Middletown, Ohio, City Councilman Dan Picard estimates that each ambulance run for an overdose costs the city $1,140, which includes the cost of naloxone and wear-and-tear on the ambulance. From October 2016 to October 2017, Middletown answered 916 overdose calls, taking more than $1 million out of its $30 million annual budget.
http://www.governing.com/topics/finance/gov-cost-opioid-crisis-governments.html

There are now OVI checkpoints EVERY weekend to try and stop impaired drivers.


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## 4tu (Jul 24, 2018)

Make all drugs legal then introduce ineffective or counterfeits upstream, you know put a kink in the works like the local state and federal government does so you have to keep going back to get what your trying to accomplish, eventually we get frustrated and quit trying or we continue and the government makes millions. or like alcohol and tobacco it needs to have a tax stamp. Sale or possession without a nice federal prison stay and make it so cheap that it would not be worth foreign drug traffickers to get involved in. One last idea do what the government has done to vehicles, impose safety features that make the cost go up and yet is too expensive to try to fake, like Epinephrine injectors it has a spring loaded needle once actuated it dispenses the drug and then retracts back into a enclosed container making it safe in case a child handles it. And like epinephrine jump the price up and then offer 2 fer sales at limited outlets so the dopies have to scurry like all of us do to get what we want where we can afford it. Hell rent spaces like kiosks in social service offices police stations and abortions clinics, that was the intent of Margret Sanger to make it simpler to kill off the dregs and offspring of the dregs of society.

Make me the Drug Czar in a year I'll make it a fun as going to the drivers incensing bureau or getting a root canal.


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## Redlands Okie (Nov 28, 2017)

Years ago some of the cities in the northeast offered one way bus tickets to anywhere as long as you could show a potential job or a relative or such. They were desperate to move people out of the area. Seems California is setting themselves up for similar deal. Just load up the addicts and ship them west.


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## AmericanStand (Jul 29, 2014)

4tu said:


> Make all drugs legal then introduce ineffective or counterfeits upstream, you know put a kink in the works like the local state and federal government does so you have to keep going back to get what your trying to accomplish, eventually we get frustrated and quit trying or we continue and the government makes millions. or like alcohol and tobacco it needs to have a tax stamp. Sale or possession without a nice federal prison stay and make it so cheap that it would not be worth foreign drug traffickers to get involved in. One last idea do what the government has done to vehicles, impose safety features that make the cost go up and yet is too expensive to try to fake, like Epinephrine injectors it has a spring loaded needle once actuated it dispenses the drug and then retracts back into a enclosed container making it safe in case a child handles it. And like epinephrine jump the price up and then offer 2 fer sales at limited outlets so the dopies have to scurry like all of us do to get what we want where we can afford it. Hell rent spaces like kiosks in social service offices police stations and abortions clinics, that was the intent of Margret Sanger to make it simpler to kill off the dregs and offspring of the dregs of society.
> 
> Make me the Drug Czar in a year I'll make it a fun as going to the drivers incensing bureau or getting a root canal.


 Right ruin a good thing for everybody. 
Don’t you see how it would make the drugs you take cheaper and easier to obtain ?


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## shawnlee (Apr 13, 2010)

The cure is the cause.....why are massive amounts of people taking drugs...….that's the only effective fix.


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## poppy (Feb 21, 2008)

AmericanStand said:


> Lol see now you are creating the problem you are complaining about.
> If somebody could legally raise a little marijuana or cocaine in their backyard it would be no incentive to steal your stuff. And those bad gardeners wouldn’t be stealing your stuff they would be swiping some from somebody else’s backyard.
> Can you see how making drugs illegal creates the problems that you complain about?


If you make them legal, remove all taxpayer funding for caring for the users when they overdose. Stupid should hurt. When someone who overdosed dies on the street, let them lay a couple days with a sign on them saying why they died and another sign saying "this is what happens if you overdose on drugs". Maybe some people seeing those bloated bodies will pay attention.


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## Evons hubby (Oct 3, 2005)

I take numerous kinds of drugs to help keep my heart beating, control blood pressure, some to keep my blood sugar under control and more recently have had to add a pain killer to the list. I take about a dozen pills a day to stay alive and make it worth being alive. I presume many others take drugs for basically the same reasons.


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## Echoesechos (Jan 22, 2010)

Meth users lose their teeth, develop ticks and twitches. They dig holes into their skin from itching and picking. They may get clean but they will never lose the ticks and twitches. It adversely affects their nervous system. Why anyone would want to legalize such a toxic drug is beyond me. I see it daily and it’s a sad sad thing. Wouldn’t wish it on anyone.


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## Redlands Okie (Nov 28, 2017)

poppy said:


> If you make them legal, remove all taxpayer funding for caring for the users when they overdose. Stupid should hurt. When someone who overdosed dies on the street, let them lay a couple days with a sign on them saying why they died and another sign saying "this is what happens if you overdose on drugs". Maybe some people seeing those bloated bodies will pay attention.


I think some attempts have been made on several fronts about testing for illegal drug use before receiving public assistance of various forms. Not likely to change much even if legalized. To many “caring” people out there it seems to allow it to be done. So the enabling continues.


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## thesedays (Feb 25, 2011)

Whenever I hear about someone dying from an overdose, especially of heroin, I'm torn between "Their friends and relatives will miss them" and "Their ex-friends and estranged relatives are probably glad they won't be hit up for money any more, or have anything else stolen from them."

I really hate the way the media has glamorized heroin addiction - and don't kid yourself, when they interview an attractive young woman, preferably blonde and with educated, middle-class parents, that is EXACTLY what they are doing. Oh, and then we find out after her death that before she gave that interview, the one where she said she was clean and Life Is So Good, she got high in the bathroom beforehand.


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## thesedays (Feb 25, 2011)

Redlands Okie said:


> I think some attempts have been made on several fronts about testing for illegal drug use before receiving public assistance of various forms. Not likely to change much even if legalized. To many “caring” people out there it seems to allow it to be done. So the enabling continues.


The reason it hasn't been done in more places is because in the areas that did it, they caught so few illicit users, the ROI wasn't worth it at all.


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

shawnlee said:


> The cure is the cause.....why are massive amounts of people taking drugs...….that's the only effective fix.


My friend and I broached that subject. His mother had no idea until very recently that he used drugs. She asked him why he did it. The answer was very simple. He liked them. They made his life fun. He lived that lifestyle for 40 years.

I say there is no cure. I would like to hear what you think the "cure" is.


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## Redlands Okie (Nov 28, 2017)

So that must mean testing works and helps prevent abuse. In this area I suspect a lot of paper work would be required because of the meth problems.

Human nature being what it is I would be surprised to see a program that actually worked well and more or less ended drug abuse.


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## shawnlee (Apr 13, 2010)

HDRider said:


> My friend and I broached that subject. His mother had no idea until very recently that he used drugs. She asked him why he did it. The answer was very simple. He liked them. They made his life fun. He lived that lifestyle for 40 years.
> 
> I say there is no cure. I would like to hear what you think the "cure" is.


 That's why we did drugs when we were young....it was fun,...….but once it got old, we stopped...some did not.

People will not stop until they get their fill.....drugs,liquor,cigs or food...….or until it becomes a problem or until it kills them.

The only "cure" is education/understanding, while not a cure as it will not work on everyone and that's ok. Not everyone can be saved...….a common flaw with many things people do, they think it has to be effective for everyone in all situations.


I have always been of the mindset of what other people do is their business,...until it effects me.


Not everyone can handle drugs...….some places have employees that were on heroin and other drugs for years.....they were and are great employees. Just like every weed smoker is not Spicoli , not all drunks or drug users are failures.....there are a lot of high functioning people with addictions.

Some people push it too far and lose everything...….key take away is not everyone can be saved.....people will and have always died from drugs/liquor.....these substances are not new. These substances go back thousands of years and were used by the king down to the peasants...some people exercised self control and some did not.


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

shawnlee said:


> That's why we did drugs when we were young....it was fun,...….but once it got old, we stopped...some did not.
> 
> People will not stop until they get their fill.....drugs,liquor,cigs or food...….or until it becomes a problem or until it kills them.
> 
> ...


Well said


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## Wolf mom (Mar 8, 2005)

Alice In TX/MO said:


> Portugal decriminalized drugs. It worked.
> 
> https://news.vice.com/article/ungas...-after-decriminalization-drugs-weed-to-heroin


Of course it works.... Portugal is a socialist country. Those who burn their brain out on drugs will be taken care of those who don't and do work for a living... Who the heck do you think is paying for the health and welfare of these people? 
Bless their hearts.


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## wdcutrsdaughter (Dec 9, 2012)

I know this is probably going to sound like a real jerky thing to say but I wonder why as a society we save addicts in an overdose. 

Isn't the possibility of overdose the risk they take?
Isn't saving them just perpetuating the problem and the cost burden on society? Isn't it just interfering with the path they chose? 

I wonder how many get saved and then get clean, my guess is less than half. 

Of course I realize I may feel differently if the addict was a relative, but if they are addicted to herion or meth, haven't we already lost them?


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## AmericanStand (Jul 29, 2014)

I think a lot of you miss the point. Criminalizing soft drugs leads to using harder drugs that are legal. But soon those drugs are discovered and criminalized and the cycle repeats. 
Of course there are those who use hard ones from the beginning but I think it’s the criminalization that is driving the drug problem. 
Yes even if their drugs are cheap there will be those who steal to support that habit just as there are those now who steal to support their chickens. 
But you don’t hear about many of them do you ?


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## GTX63 (Dec 13, 2016)

HDRider said:


> My friend and I broached that subject. His mother had no idea until very recently that he used drugs. She asked him why he did it. The answer was very simple. He liked them. They made his life fun. He lived that lifestyle for 40 years.
> 
> I say there is no cure. I would like to hear what you think the "cure" is.


The cure is the results of use. 

Rock bottom is a cure, but like the latest pill, it doesn't work the same for everyone. Rock bottom isn't a single location, event or period and unfortunately for some it is found beyond the grave. 
There is a segment of society that lives in denial of death and suffering. Their end game is a cure for everything in which the end comes of our choosing on our terms and time and is voluntary and peaceful. They seek answers without understanding the basic premise that disease and addiction are rabbit trails and whackamoles that can be lessened but never contained.
You could describe this group as "warm glow" givers who love to feel good about a cause without giving a rational assessment of what a reasonable outcome may be. The truth is also a cure.


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## 4tu (Jul 24, 2018)

poppy said:


> If you make them legal, remove all taxpayer funding for caring for the users when they overdose. Stupid should hurt. When someone who overdosed dies on the street, let them lay a couple days with a sign on them saying why they died and another sign saying "this is what happens if you overdose on drugs". Maybe some people seeing those bloated bodies will pay attention.


Yea with the sign stake through their heart like a vampire then put them in a mass grave as nothing they did in their life helped anyone but themselves.

It makes my head spin when people like Bill Gates, Ted Turner, Warren Buffet, Oprah, and a bunch of others tell us their are too many people on the planet and we need to limit world wide population to 1 billion -- so what about the other 6 billion? Well they got a plan for that but they also want us to pay for rehab clinics treatment amd more tax dollars to fund their pet projects like the opioid crisis. I like all these new commercials for drug rehab all it is, a headhunting scheme, if you have no insurance forget treatment.


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## Wolf mom (Mar 8, 2005)

wdcutrsdaughter said:


> I know this is probably going to sound like a real jerky thing to say but I wonder why as a society we save addicts in an overdose.
> 
> Isn't the possibility of overdose the risk they take?
> 
> ...


No, I don't think it's a jerky thing to say I think you are brave to voice what many are thinking but afraid to say.

There's a guy living nearby whose parents have lost their home trying to save their son through rehab after rehab. He also has lost a couple wives and children and homes because he chose drugs over everything. He was out of rehab about a year ago and again recently has disappeared...A nice, intelligent (wrote a book) gifted craftsman. 

So sad - yet again, here we have the scenario of trying to save one soul at the expense of many.

To drug and/or drink is a choice - not a mental illness or disease or whatever one wants to call it today.


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## GTX63 (Dec 13, 2016)

Wolf mom said:


> To drug and/or drink is a choice - not a mental illness or disease or whatever one wants to call it today.


That's worth a bump.


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## big rockpile (Feb 24, 2003)

Don't have room to talk I went many years drinking and smoking marijuana were I worked didn't care because I did my Job.

Alcohol messed me up and still may kill me. Meth knowing what is in it scares the heck out of me.

Around here they grew marijuana until many started getting busted. Now they cook Meth.

My Brother spent all his life in Prison because of drugs. He would get out have all kinds of nice stuff then get busted. Courts made it to where it was too hard to make a living or find a place to live legally. I don't know how my Mom did it but she was an Alcoholic all her life, drove intoxicated all the time. Finally got caught in her 60's, even though she didn't have Drivers Licenses she still drove where she had to but finally quit drinking.

I'm now on Opioids because of constant pain, they are prescribed because of side effects I would rather smoke marijuana but can't afford it.

big rockpile


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## FCLady (Jan 23, 2011)

At what point do people HAVE to take responsibility for their OWN actions?

We ended up adopting our nieces because their mother would rather pole dance and do crack than be responsible for her own children. I will never forget what she said to the judge at the adoption hearing. "It wasn't suppose to be like this... one day I might want my kids back". ONE DAY!!! What about today??? What are these *kids* suppose to do in the mean time? The judge just rolled her eyes and gave her ANOTHER 30 days to give her ONE reason why she shouldn't grant the adoption. They've lived with us (beautiful twin girls) since they were 6 months old. We didn't say the heck with their mom and proceeded with the adoption until they were 7 years old.


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

FCLady said:


> At what point do people HAVE to take responsibility for their OWN actions?
> 
> We ended up adopting our nieces because their mother would rather pole dance and do crack than be responsible for her own children. I will never forget what she said to the judge at the adoption hearing. "It wasn't suppose to be like this... one day I might want my kids back". ONE DAY!!! What about today??? What are these *kids* suppose to do in the mean time? The judge just rolled her eyes and gave her ANOTHER 30 days to give her ONE reason why she shouldn't grant the adoption. They've lived with us (beautiful twin girls) since they were 6 months old. We didn't say the heck with their mom and proceeded with the adoption until they were 7 years old.


Bless you.


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## AmericanStand (Jul 29, 2014)

FCLady said:


> At what point do people HAVE to take responsibility for their OWN actions?
> 
> We ended up adopting our nieces because their mother would rather pole dance and do crack than be responsible for her own children. I will never forget what she said to the judge at the adoption hearing. "It wasn't suppose to be like this... one day I might want my kids back". ONE DAY!!! What about today??? What are these *kids* suppose to do in the mean time? The judge just rolled her eyes and gave her ANOTHER 30 days to give her ONE reason why she shouldn't grant the adoption. They've lived with us (beautiful twin girls) since they were 6 months old. We didn't say the heck with their mom and proceeded with the adoption until they were 7 years old.


Never as long as people like you clean up after them.


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

wdcutrsdaughter said:


> Clean needles or a nice living room or something?


Yes, as opposed to behind a dumpster in an alley.


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## Riverdale (Jan 20, 2008)

AmericanStand said:


> Why do you feel the need to control what other people do when it doesn’t effect you?


Meth 'pollution' can poison my water and land. 

I agree, a capital offence


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## Riverdale (Jan 20, 2008)

Yvonne's hubby said:


> so decriminalize it, and do away with the disability payments. Problems solved.


Nope, it'll double or triple it.


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## Evons hubby (Oct 3, 2005)

Riverdale said:


> Nope, it'll double or triple it.


If we decriminalize it, how does that double or triple the incarceration rate? If we cut off disability payments how can that double or triple the amount spent on disability? In my mind if we want to end poverty we should quit paying people to be poor.


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## Evons hubby (Oct 3, 2005)

HDRider said:


> I have away from my home area since 1980. In that time a lot of people I grew up with have died because of drugs.
> 
> The scourge here has been meth.
> 
> ...


This popped up in a message on my messenger the other day. For those who haven't seen the vid that preceded it, it's about a guy whose cousin was caught red handed stealing his stuff to get funding for his meth habit. Among the "loot" found was a cheese grater, an empty bottle of cleanser, and other pretty much useless stuff. The victim was showing the retrieved contraband with the response of "really? Who steals a cheese grater, who steals an empty spray bottle of household cleaner!? 
Anyhow this photo and the old ladies comment seems quite fitting to this thread!


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## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

wdcutrsdaughter said:


> I know this is probably going to sound like a real jerky thing to say but I wonder why as a society we save addicts in an overdose.
> 
> Isn't the possibility of overdose the risk they take?
> Isn't saving them just perpetuating the problem and the cost burden on society? Isn't it just interfering with the path they chose?
> ...


The same reason we save cardiac arrest victims that are overweight, smoke, and don't exercise- because they are human beings.


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## Clem (Apr 12, 2016)

Definitely don't set up any sort of lab!!


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

Clem said:


> The phenomenon of "addiction" is the result of a combination in the person's DNA. Similar to blue or brown eyes. I've known a lot of people to dabble in all sorts of drugs and alcohol, and could take it or leave it. And I've known others to instantly become addicted to almost anything. This led to the common term "addictive personality"
> If someone *really* wants to understand addiction, here are a few articles.
> the first one listed is probably best if you just want a quick go-through.
> https://learn.genetics.utah.edu/content/addiction/genes/
> ...


Born that way seems to be the new reason for everything.


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## Clem (Apr 12, 2016)

Oh, I know, right? I myself was born alive, lefthanded, anosmiatic, and good looking. It's both a curse and a blessing, but I deal with it.


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## Alice In TX/MO (May 10, 2002)

Clem doesn’t smell.


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

Clem said:


> Oh, I know, right? I myself was born alive, lefthanded, anosmiatic, and good looking. It's both a curse and a blessing, but I deal with it.


I guess not smelling a good buy is what sunk you as a trader.


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## Clem (Apr 12, 2016)

Oh, no. It was pure ego. Thankfully, I followed Jesse Livermore's advice and always took half my profits off the table. Even though I lost a lot, I kept a lot more. I even survived to trade again, after I whipped that ego thing. And still take half the profit home.


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## 4tu (Jul 24, 2018)

Irish Pixie said:


> If you are actively working as an addiction counselor, in my opinion, you need additional _current_ education regarding addiction and mental illness.


NO, you need to quit using feelings to validate opinions, thin skin is what enables the abuser the ability to wallow in their feelings until it kills them.
Not one person comes telling me they are the fault that their selfishness and bad choices are the basis for their problems, it's always someone else fault.

I had bad parents. no friends. got with the wrong crowd I was angry with my wife husband lover, I felt society did not accept me, I'm no good, or I don't deserve XYZ...

The problem is in the mirror you didn't fix it because the pain had not driven you until you could no longer accept who you became. and in your stinking thinking you thought you were a failure at life. when the only problem they had was living life by their rules wants and needs, to fill a void that is not humanly possible to fill, and no way to forgive ourselves or make amends for past wrongs to people we have harmed. 

New really there is noting new in this world that is another fallacy that we are all original, special in our condition that no one has ever hurt or been treated like we have. That kind of thinking induces self pity, self pity Leeds to depression and the cycle of abuse starts over again. 

Time no abuser has when they come to the realization there is a problem they are at the end of their tether most have lost everything spouses jobs and coming from jail with charges over their heads, what they want is to escape their judicial punishment and get their life back with no pain or work-- so tell me what new technique will solve those problems? No job no insurance so no abuse treatment and the fact they spent all their money on bail and a lawyer.
so shake me up some of that NEW crap and tell me in detail where are they going to live they crapped on everyone burnt all their bridges broke and if they are lucky still have a vehicle if they got it out of impound. 

NEW LMAO.


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## Redlands Okie (Nov 28, 2017)

Clem said:


> I'm a day trader who lost a fortune. Will you take my advise on day trading?


Yes please, that way we know what NOT to do. Information is usually useful, good or bad 

Set aside half the profits is interesting idea.


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## Clem (Apr 12, 2016)

Well, if you're right a hundred times in a row, you get the sense that you'll always be right. So, when I was wrong, instead of taking a manageable loss of a couple thousand dollars, I cancelled my stop orders, and doubled down. Again and again. Next thing you know, I was long 50 contracts of Texas Intermediate crude oil futures, and it was down almost 2 bucks, and I doubled down again. Which is where the bottom dropped out. Actually, I was right all along, in that I went long crude oil at 60, and it went all the way to 150. However, it visited 50 first.
Had I had the funds in the account to withstand the margin calls, I would have ended up making a little over 5 million dollars. But, I took a big loss and cashed out. Besides, I wasn't one to hold for months at a time.
Nowadays, I have written all new algorithms(the old-timey ones, based on observation), and adhere to my rules like a monk. 900 dollar loss, or 2700 dollar gain. I place my order and close the platform. I only need to be right 1/4 the time to be dead flat. Minus commissions. It's not much of an algorithm that's only right 25% of the time, I'd write a different one.

So, here's the big lesson from that loss. Always set a stop(how much you'll lose before you are too deep) and never move it into a deeper potential loss. When your position moves up, you're wise to move your stop up too, so that even if you get knocked out, you may end up ahead, or with a smaller, less painful loss. Some platforms allow that, it's called a trailing stop.

Way down deep inside, you have to realize it's not the definition of you. One trade don't make you, as a trader. What makes or breaks you is how you manage the potential for losses. Let the winners run, and exit the losers, you'll be OK. I have to set my trades and walk away because it drives me nuts watching every tick.


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## Alice In TX/MO (May 10, 2002)

Clem, exactly. I manage a trust that is based on investments that my grandfather made in the 1930s when he RETIRED from World Oil Magazine (or its predecessor). I don't watch the market. Buy wisely, buy for dividends, hold, and only adjust the portfolio if there is a [email protected] good reason.

The silly news folks call a 3% downward fluctuation in the Dow Jones Industrial Average CATASTROPHIC. Really? Every now and again when there is some dire news report, I call the broker and ask if there is something we should BUY.

People enter retirement cash poor because they don't save, don't invest, don't read, and don't think. Period.


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## wdcutrsdaughter (Dec 9, 2012)

Irish Pixie said:


> I'm not singling you out wdcutsdaughter, this scenario comes up a lot.
> 
> That is the question. Treat the guy with lung cancer after he smoked for 40 years? Treat the morbidly obese women with diabetes that won't eat correctly, exercise, or take her meds properly? Or this one is probably the most similar- treat the alcoholic with end stage cirrhosis?
> 
> Addiction often comes from untreated mental illness, a person self medicates and it takes control. If the mental illness was treated prior to self medicating there would be less addicts and less homelessness.


I agree it is a tough one Pixie. I don't think it helps that some make money on keeping sick people alive. There are two groups of people I guess- the people who think we should save everyone and the people who think people should be held responsible for their own actions. It's a tough one. People would say it's not tough it's humane to save people. It's also humane to let miserable people die.
We'll never solve this problem here unfortunately.


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## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

4tu said:


> NO, you need to quit using feelings to validate opinions, thin skin is what enables the abuser the ability to wallow in their feelings until it kills them.
> Not one person comes telling me they are the fault that their selfishness and bad choices are the basis for their problems, it's always someone else fault.
> 
> I had bad parents. no friends. got with the wrong crowd I was angry with my wife husband lover, I felt society did not accept me, I'm no good, or I don't deserve XYZ...
> ...


This is my original post, make of it what you will...



Irish Pixie said:


> That is the question. Treat the guy with lung cancer after he smoked for 40 years? Treat the morbidly obese women with diabetes that won't eat correctly, exercise, or take her meds properly? Or this one is probably the most similar- treat the alcoholic with end stage cirrhosis?
> 
> Addiction often comes from untreated mental illness, a person self medicates and it takes control. If the mental illness was treated prior to self medicating there would be less addicts and less homelessness.


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## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

Yvonne's hubby said:


> This one is easy... Treat everyone who can come up with the cost of admission.


How long have you been on Medicare again???


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## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

wdcutrsdaughter said:


> I agree it is a tough one Pixie. I don't think it helps that some make money on keeping sick people alive. There are two groups of people I guess- the people who think we should save everyone and the people who think people should be held responsible for their own actions. It's a tough one. People would say it's not tough it's humane to save people. It's also humane to let miserable people die.
> We'll never solve this problem here unfortunately.


Yup, it is... Plus I believe their should be death with dignity as a national law. 

The bottom line, to me, is that all people should be treated the same. There really is no difference between a 40 year smoker and a heroin addict, they both knew what they were doing wasn't good for them and both are responsible.


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## Evons hubby (Oct 3, 2005)

I've been paying for Medicare since its inception back in the mid sixties. Call it 50 years give or take, I've been filing claims on it 5 or 6 years maybe. Why do you ask?


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## Evons hubby (Oct 3, 2005)

Irish Pixie said:


> Yup, it is... Plus I believe their should be death with dignity as a national law.
> 
> The bottom line, to me, is that all people should be treated the same. There really is no difference between a 40 year smoker and a heroin addict, they both knew what they were doing wasn't good for them and both are responsible.


I agree with you on this... Everyone should be expected to pay for the services they want. Actually not everyone, the mentally incompetent and those who suffer from extreme physical impairments should be placed in properly run facilities and be given the care they need by professionals. I've no qualms about society taking care of our disabled citizens. A heroin addict and a forty year smoker do share some similarities but unless they have some actual issues preventing them from paying their bills, they should not ask society for special treatment. Insurance has been around for many years, decades actually. There is no reason your neighbor should be forced to pick up the tab for able bodied mentally stable people who refuse to take care of themselves.


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## TripleD (Feb 12, 2011)

TripleD said:


> Meth Hill is a community of about 100 two miles from my place. At least 2 meth labs busted each year. Trailer park I call Crack Alley is about a mile away. The largest pill pusher in the county lives about 3/4 of a mile from me. I live in a perfect spot !!!


Just an update on Meth Hill . One of the guys living there went into the Court House this week with a loaded .25, a box cutter and a pocket full of meth !!!


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## LAFarm (Mar 8, 2015)

poppy said:


> If you make them legal, remove all taxpayer funding for caring for the users when they overdose. Stupid should hurt. When someone who overdosed dies on the street, let them lay a couple days with a sign on them saying why they died and another sign saying "this is what happens if you overdose on drugs". Maybe some people seeing those bloated bodies will pay attention.


All of the photos and publicity about Jim Jones and the Guyana mass suicide did not keep people from joining cults - religious and otherwise. They all still seem to be flourishing.


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

October 16, 2018
*TUCSON, Ariz. – *Nogales Border Patrol agents arrested two U.S. citizens and one Mexican national after finding nearly 150 pounds of methamphetamine during two separate incidents over the weekend at the Interstate 19 Immigration Checkpoint.

The second incident occurred almost 48 hours later when agents at the same checkpoint referred a 26-year-old Mexican female and driver of a Dodge Grand Caravan and her 22-year-old female passenger from Rio Rico, Arizona, for secondary inspection. Agents discovered 38 packages of methamphetamine concealed in the vehicle. The narcotics, valued at approximately $271,140 weighed close to 90 pounds.

The seizure in California occurred on Saturday, October 13, when U.S. Customs and Border Protection Agents working the Calexico East extracted 163 pounds of liquid methamphetamine concealed inside the gas tank. The driver, a Mexican citizen, was arrested for a narcotics smuggling attempt and is in the custody of Homeland Security Investigations agents.

https://www.breitbart.com/border/20...zes-300-pounds-of-meth-in-arizona-california/


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## mnn2501 (Apr 2, 2008)

Cornhusker said:


> Votes aren't worth the chaos.


Tell that to the Dems.


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## big rockpile (Feb 24, 2003)

Me I get addicted to about anything. Always liked Tobacco, Alcohol, Coffee, Food, Work, Fighting, Driving Fast and Sex. Some drugs never tried Meth.

big rockpile


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