# How often do you use a sharp kitchen knife?



## HermitJohn (May 10, 2002)

It somehow just struck me today that unless you cut up lot raw produce or meat, most people buy food in such a way that only cutting necessary is to open the plastic container.

I am relatively lazy and only do two meals per day, but this involves lot chopping on cutting board twice a day. So seems odd not to need a knife. 

Now people on homesteading forum would tend to use a knife more than most, but kinda curious.


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## Redlands Okie (Nov 28, 2017)

Use them enough I finally got tired of the whit stone and bought a electric sharpener about a month ago. SHARP knife is hard to beat


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## Danaus29 (Sep 12, 2005)

I use a paring knife several times a week. It's not real sharp, I need to spend some time sharpening my paring knives.


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## 101pigs (Sep 18, 2018)

HermitJohn said:


> It somehow just struck me today that unless you cut up lot raw produce or meat, most people buy food in such a way that only cutting necessary is to open the plastic container.
> 
> I am relatively lazy and only do two meals per day, but this involves lot chopping on cutting board twice a day. So seems odd not to need a knife.
> 
> Now people on homesteading forum would tend to use a knife more than most, but kinda curious.


Have you been on vacation. Not seen you for awhile. I keep very sharp knifes. I do my own butchering and do need sharp knifes.


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## hiddensprings (Aug 6, 2009)

I use a knife in the kitchen for chopping and cooking at least once a day, usually twice a day I sharpen when they need it. I carry a pocket knife as part of my normal attire; one just never knows when they will need one


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## Alice In TX/MO (May 10, 2002)

Twice a day.

Also carry pocket knife.


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## GTX63 (Dec 13, 2016)

Twice a day and always carry a pocket knife.


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## HermitJohn (May 10, 2002)

101pigs said:


> Have you been on vacation. Not seen you for awhile. I keep very sharp knifes. I do my own butchering and do need sharp knifes.


Covid vacation.... No I didnt get covid, but my friend and I both older with health issues where covid would be deadly so big delay in moving... Then we got the handyman from hell at the new place. He started slow walking all projects. Had to fire him, we are not sure if he is closet drunk or what, he has the knowledge, but apparently finishing a job for significantly more money not great incentive for him. Just take whatever small up front money he can grab and dont do diddly beyond mow the lawn and couple other small things. And neighbors down there decided place was abandoned and started carting everything of any value off. Joy after joy. Cant move anything until we have somebody living there full time or it just gets picked over and hauled off. Hoping to get my friends sister moved in as care taker on big house. Her son in law supposed to come and try to get water leaks fixed (thought that idiot handyman had that done, but apparently not). 

Like said my observation on knives really doesnt apply that much to homesteader types. It was more thinking typical American. I mean they even sell things like shredded cheese and pre-chopped veggies. And such things as food processor. So yea other than a small knife (or scissors) to open plastic packages, can see people not needing a serious knife.


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## geo in mi (Nov 14, 2008)

Doesn't anybody peel potatoes anymore? I've been trying to beat the Amazon rush this year, especially, so I bought a pack of Victorinox paring knives....pretty nice, colored handles to let you know where they are in the drawer. Been thinking all the females will get a set for Christmas, even though some of them will stay sharp forever since they will only be used for cutting plastic film. 

My niece went to culinary school. One Thanksgiving she let me carve the turkey with her $$$$ knife---what a joy. Made me an instant expert carver. Quality sometimes pays off.

(John, good to see you back.)

geo


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## mzgarden (Mar 16, 2012)

I use knives in the kitchen every day - I have a quick hand held sharpener that I use pretty often.

Here's a story to kind of illustrate what you might be thinking about. Pre-Covid, I would help at our church every other month with the food pantry distribution - people come, pick up their food. They are pre-registered so they often sit in the church waiting to be called. We serve bagels etc. I got tired of having to slice bagels with the church's knives, so I brought mine and warned folks they were sharp. 3 other ladies were helping me - everyone one of them cut themselves. Apparently they had no idea how to handle a sharp knife.  I finally banned everyone from helping me and I did the cutting by myself at all following events.


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## Dale Alan (Sep 26, 2012)

I have numerous kitchen knives(30+) so by rotating I have sharp knives constantly . When I am in the mood I will sharpen a batch . I like all my edged tools very sharp , makes no sense to me to struggle with anything dull . I enjoy working with knives,axes, etc. and do not want to take the fun out of it fighting a dull edge .


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## HermitJohn (May 10, 2002)

Danaus29 said:


> I use a paring knife several times a week. It's not real sharp, I need to spend some time sharpening my paring knives.


It makes a difference on any knife to be truly sharp. Much more pleasant.


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## HermitJohn (May 10, 2002)

mzgarden said:


> I use knives in the kitchen every day - I have a quick hand held sharpener that I use pretty often.
> 
> Here's a story to kind of illustrate what you might be thinking about. Pre-Covid, I would help at our church every other month with the food pantry distribution - people come, pick up their food. They are pre-registered so they often sit in the church waiting to be called. We serve bagels etc. I got tired of having to slice bagels with the church's knives, so I brought mine and warned folks they were sharp. 3 other ladies were helping me - everyone one of them cut themselves. Apparently they had no idea how to handle a sharp knife.  I finally banned everyone from helping me and I did the cutting by myself at all following events.


LOL, yea, if not used to using sharp knife, may find part of a finger and some unexpected special sauce in whatever you are chopping. Dull knives maybe more apt to slip and cut you, but a sharp knife can do far more damage in a careless moment.


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## HermitJohn (May 10, 2002)

geo in mi said:


> Doesn't anybody peel potatoes anymore? I've been trying to beat the Amazon rush this year, especially, so I bought a pack of Victorinox paring knives....pretty nice, colored handles to let you know where they are in the drawer. Been thinking all the females will get a set for Christmas, even though some of them will stay sharp forever since they will only be used for cutting plastic film.
> 
> My niece went to culinary school. One Thanksgiving she let me carve the turkey with her $$$$ knife---what a joy. Made me an instant expert carver. Quality sometimes pays off.
> 
> ...


Sometime back bought one of those plastic handle Victorinox paring knives after everybody was hyping them so much. Its sharp but I really didnt like feel of the handle and blade little too flexy. I replaced the plastic handle with one from piece dead oak branch epoxied on and sanded to shape I found comfortable. It improved feel a lot but stil dont often use it. The blade just not right shape somehow. I really prefer clip point or sheepsfoot style. Not the dagger point style.

I recently got curious testing how knife blade geometry affects cutting. I pulled an old serrated Farberware paring knife out of my $1 box of knives. Dull saw of a knife. Time waster to mess with such. I ground off the serrations. Then carefully (not to over heat metal) gave it a full flat grind (flat bevel spine to edge on both sides). Well best I could, angle grinder not the best choice for this, but fastest. Then sharpened it. Junk steel, but that thing cuts amazing and I have some good paring knives, it matched them in cutting ability. Geometry/profile truly very important. No idea how long it will feel sharp, it is pretty cheapo crappo steel I think as are most serrated knives.

Oh just interesting video proving any sharp knife beats any dull knife...... LOL


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## whiterock (Mar 26, 2003)

I have loads of Old Hickory knives I bought at old hardware stores, but the majority came from estate and garage sales. The high carbon isn't as pretty and shiny as the stainless steel so the people would put them out to sale. Thrift stores are a good source of cheap good quality knives as well. I have one large butcher knife that I keep separately from anything else. If I put my hand anywhere near the edge of that one I can cut myself. 

Ex would dull the edges of the knives in a rapid fashion, I would occasionally pick one up and find it dull, check out the rest in the drawer and end up sharpening all of them. I would tell her but she would invariably cut herself repeatedly for the next week or two.
I have some dull knives that I can't keep sharp or have trouble sharpening. Mostly stainless. High carbon is easy to sharpen and maintain an edge.


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## newfieannie (Dec 24, 2006)

several times a day and i sharpen my own. same way with my axes and whatnot. i also carry a pocketknife in all my handbags. wouldn't be able to get on a plane with that now but i dont travel. ~Georgia


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## geo in mi (Nov 14, 2008)

Mom had a paring knife whose blade was so curved that it fit apples and potatoes and other round fruit perfectly. Was just right for cutting up peaches. For years she sharpened it on the top edge of the cookie crock.

geo


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## HermitJohn (May 10, 2002)

whiterock said:


> I have loads of Old Hickory knives I bought at old hardware stores, but the majority came from estate and garage sales. The high carbon isn't as pretty and shiny as the stainless steel so the people would put them out to sale. Thrift stores are a good source of cheap good quality knives as well. I have one large butcher knife that I keep separately from anything else. If I put my hand anywhere near the edge of that one I can cut myself.
> 
> Ex would dull the edges of the knives in a rapid fashion, I would occasionally pick one up and find it dull, check out the rest in the drawer and end up sharpening all of them. I would tell her but she would invariably cut herself repeatedly for the next week or two.
> I have some dull knives that I can't keep sharp or have trouble sharpening. Mostly stainless. High carbon is easy to sharpen and maintain an edge.


The downside to Old Hickory, the blade as comes from factory needs to be thinned a bit. And their chef knife doesnt leave lot knuckle room on cutting board. There is guy that sells scythes online that also sells Old Hickory chef knife and gives $5 option that he will thin the blade and sharpen it for you. Old Hickory Chef's Knife Without the option its same price as Amazon. $5 well spent IMHO if you want one of these. Fit and finish on standard run Old Hickory as they come from factory not the greatest. You might get lucky, you might not.






Now I ran across an even cheaper 1095 carbon steel knife, only found it on ebay and its shipped from UK though guessing its Chinese, no way to find out for sure where its made. Called Alistar. They sell lot of that "damascus" look decorative knives but this is plain jane and good knife cheap. And only by auction though shouldnt having problem winning auction with minimum bid. They post many many auctions. 

Its nice steel and a heavy knife. Worked ok as chopping knife after I touched up edge, but probably needs some modification thinning blade a bit, for optimum quality. Like Old Hickory, its the old kind of carbon steel and it easily rusts. Probably want to force a patina and then oil it if not using it regularly. No dishwasher, no leaving it in water. 









Alistar Handmade Carbon Steel Slicing/ Kitchen/Chef's Knife (4900-7 | eBay


Alistar Handmade 1095 High Carbon Steel Kitchen Knife. Damascus, 1095HC, and D2 can rust and develop stains if not lubricated. Care After Use: - Always Clean and Knife after use and treat with oil or wax.



www.ebay.com


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## muleskinner2 (Oct 7, 2007)

I only have one kitchen knife, on old skinner a friend gave me twenty years ago. You can shave the hair on your arm with it. I use it once a day.


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## HermitJohn (May 10, 2002)

geo in mi said:


> Mom had a paring knife whose blade was so curved that it fit apples and potatoes and other round fruit perfectly. Was just right for cutting up peaches. For years she sharpened it on the top edge of the cookie crock.
> 
> geo


I have one of those I got in box junk. Called hawkbill or something like that. They are nice knife to peel with. One I have and not sure where its at, was a cheapie German made one, stamped blade with plastic handle. But peel an apple or whatever like nobody's business. Not much use other than peeling round stuff.


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## Rodeo's Bud (Apr 10, 2020)

I have a bunch of kitchen knives. I collect them.

None of them are razor sharp. I don't like a razor sharp one. I prefer a usefully sharp one.

My favorite is a 4 inch chef's knife. Works like a chef's knife, but does the job of a paring knife.


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## HermitJohn (May 10, 2002)

Oh most stainless isnt that hard to sharpen. There is some high end super hard stuff and then there is some el cheapo crappo "gummy" steel that just wont let go of wire edge that developes during sharpening. Most both those are rare enough its not a big deal. Now lot cheaper knives especially arent profiled correctly. Manufacturer keeps price down by slip shod sharpening. These always can be improved. Some better knives come with a too shallow secondary bevel. The manufacturer knows people will abuse their knives and most likely dont know how to sharpen a knife. So they but this shallow kinda edge on cause it will stand up well to abuse and keep knife usably sharp much longer than if they put a truly sharp edge on it. You can tell if a knife is sharp, if person chopping something has to use extra effort to force the knife through it. It will "crack" carrots rather than cut them.


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## HermitJohn (May 10, 2002)

Rodeo's Bud said:


> I have a bunch of kitchen knives. I collect them.
> 
> None of them are razor sharp. I don't like a razor sharp one. I prefer a usefully sharp one.
> 
> My favorite is a 4 inch chef's knife. Works like a chef's knife, but does the job of a paring knife.


Its a personal judgement call as to what is sharp enough. Some knives will take a razor sharp edge but arent strong enough steel to support it and edge will fold too easily. Honestly I have never had a knife too sharp. Some wont hold a sharp edge for long, but too sharp has never been a problem. I am not going to put some show quality polished edge on a kitchen knife. 2000grit seems to me about most needed for kitchen knife but some might think 1000 is good enough and some might want 10000. Some want a really rough unpolished edge in mistaken belief its sharper. Not really its just a faux serrated edge and wont hold long. But again, each to their own.

I personally like 10 inch chef knife. But out of curiosity got a 6inch one. Its very different leverage. After using it some and getting used to it, its ok and does give more control, but I still like 8inch, 9inch, or 10 inch better.


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## 101pigs (Sep 18, 2018)

whiterock said:


> I have loads of Old Hickory knives I bought at old hardware stores, but the majority came from estate and garage sales. The high carbon isn't as pretty and shiny as the stainless steel so the people would put them out to sale. Thrift stores are a good source of cheap good quality knives as well. I have one large butcher knife that I keep separately from anything else. If I put my hand anywhere near the edge of that one I can cut myself.
> 
> Ex would dull the edges of the knives in a rapid fashion, I would occasionally pick one up and find it dull, check out the rest in the drawer and end up sharpening all of them. I would tell her but she would invariably cut herself repeatedly for the next week or two.
> I have some dull knives that I can't keep sharp or have trouble sharpening. Mostly stainless. High carbon is easy to sharpen and maintain an edge.





hiddensprings said:


> I use a knife in the kitchen for chopping and cooking at least once a day, usually twice a day I sharpen when they need it. I carry a pocket knife as part of my normal attire; one just never knows when they will need one


I hve a knife i made from a flat file. I use it when i butcher Hogs. Removes the hair from a Hog without much pressure on the meat.


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## emdeengee (Apr 20, 2010)

We use sharp paring and chefs knives everyday in the kitchen and have 6 other knives including two bread knives. One serrated knife that is great for cutting soft veggies and fruits. We could not manage without them. We have a great knife holder that fits in the drawer so the knives are not on display. We have assigned a number to each knife so it is easy to ask for the right one to be passed to you. I hate the sound when you sharpen knives but my husband is not bothered so even though I can sharpen our knives he mostly does it.


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## mzgarden (Mar 16, 2012)

muleskinner2 said:


> I only have one kitchen knife, on old skinner a friend gave me twenty years ago. You can shave the hair on your arm with it. I use it once a day.


You shave your arm every day?


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## romysbaskets (Aug 29, 2009)

I have used a sharp knife everyday my adult life. I always have paring knives and an assortment of knives because I cook a lot from scratch. Recently there was a move out when a house sold and a shed full of things that was free. The new owner didn't want them. I was able to get an assortment of very sharp knives for free. Very high quality knives. I carry a pocket knife wherever I go and usually a multi-tool along with a socket and a wrench. You never know what's in my bag along with the handheld boat radio because I always take care of bringing it to the boat.


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## romysbaskets (Aug 29, 2009)

HermitJohn said:


> Covid vacation.... No I didnt get covid, but my friend and I both older with health issues where covid would be deadly so big delay in moving... Then we got the handyman from hell at the new place. He started slow walking all projects. Had to fire him, we are not sure if he is closet drunk or what, he has the knowledge, but apparently finishing a job for significantly more money not great incentive for him. Just take whatever small up front money he can grab and dont do diddly beyond mow the lawn and couple other small things. And neighbors down there decided place was abandoned and started carting everything of any value off. Joy after joy. Cant move anything until we have somebody living there full time or it just gets picked over and hauled off. Hoping to get my friends sister moved in as care taker on big house. Her son in law supposed to come and try to get water leaks fixed (thought that idiot handyman had that done, but apparently not).
> 
> Like said my observation on knives really doesnt apply that much to homesteader types. It was more thinking typical American. I mean they even sell things like shredded cheese and pre-chopped veggies. And such things as food processor. So yea other than a small knife (or scissors) to open plastic packages, can see people not needing a serious knife.


I am so very sorry that happened to you! Our home was vandalized also. They took thousands of dollars worth of things and let rodents in when we weren't in our house as they left the back door open by a few inches. We have spent a year taking care of the mess that was made. Our home looks really good now. We still have repairs to make but at least there's no sign of the damage that was there before. We replaced the things that were taken. Allowing the weather to expose our kitchen from that back door being left open about 4 in, made painting our cabinets necessary because it was just too much to do with all the wood refinishing. Being an oak kitchen it wasn't a big deal to paint it because the rest of the house is not oak. I wasn't happy to replace a wood holder, scaffolding ladder, tools, weathervane, and so much more. We had to throw away all our clothes, a lot of bedding, lace curtains, dressers and all the furniture! The only thing to make it fine were my antiques! Which is a testament to antiques since the clothing inside were never touched by rodents! Only in the built-in dresser and my son's modern dressers. We've used covid isolation to get so much done. No I can't expose my husband to a lot of people either with his health condition. I love being isolated to begin with so this wasn't any problem for me. I am so happy to be in my home full time. Sorry I know this is a singles forum but I just had to comment. I am so very sorry and there's just no excuse for people to take things from a property.


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## Terri (May 10, 2002)

I have ONE knife that is truly sharp, and that is enough for me. Semi sharp for paring knives and steak knives is my strong preference, as people will dump things in the sink in a heap. Heck I have been known to do it myself.

My one sharp knife lives in a separate draer and it has a cover for the blade


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## HermitJohn (May 10, 2002)

romysbaskets said:


> I am so very sorry that happened to you! Our home was vandalized also. They took thousands of dollars worth of things and let rodents in when we weren't in our house as they left the back door open by a few inches. We have spent a year taking care of the mess that was made. Our home looks really good now. We still have repairs to make but at least there's no sign of the damage that was there before. We replaced the things that were taken. Allowing the weather to expose our kitchen from that back door being left open about 4 in, made painting our cabinets necessary because it was just too much to do with all the wood refinishing. Being an oak kitchen it wasn't a big deal to paint it because the rest of the house is not oak. I wasn't happy to replace a wood holder, scaffolding ladder, tools, weathervane, and so much more. We had to throw away all our clothes, a lot of bedding, lace curtains, dressers and all the furniture! The only thing to make it fine were my antiques! Which is a testament to antiques since the clothing inside were never touched by rodents! Only in the built-in dresser and my son's modern dressers. We've used covid isolation to get so much done. No I can't expose my husband to a lot of people either with his health condition. I love being isolated to begin with so this wasn't any problem for me. I am so happy to be in my home full time. Sorry I know this is a singles forum but I just had to comment. I am so very sorry and there's just no excuse for people to take things from a property.


At least they didnt burn it down. That would truly be a bummer.


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## Hiro (Feb 14, 2016)

Terri said:


> I have ONE knife that is truly sharp, and that is enough for me. Semi sharp for paring knives and steak knives is my strong preference, as people will dump things in the sink in a heap. Heck I have been known to do it myself.
> 
> My one sharp knife lives in a separate draer and it has a cover for the blade


We have several sharp kitchen knives as we seem to cook constantly. There is one that is reserved solely for my use that I believe is pretty close to scalpel sharpness. As has been stated already, dull knives lead to more cuts than sharp knives. Sharp knives cause more damage when misused. That and mandolines/table saws/meat slicers.


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## Kiamichi Kid (Apr 9, 2009)

I make them and use them often...


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## Macrocarpus (Jan 30, 2018)

HJ; We have two blocks full of knives---only one old hickory but I LIKE it. I keep a diamond sharpener handy for all of them. As an aside, a friend who was trained as a chef said NEVER WASH A KNIFE IN THE DISHWASHER---ALWASYS BY HAND IN THE SINK.


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## HermitJohn (May 10, 2002)

Macrocarpus said:


> HJ; We have two blocks full of knives---only one old hickory but I LIKE it. I keep a diamond sharpener handy for all of them. As an aside, a friend who was trained as a chef said NEVER WASH A KNIFE IN THE DISHWASHER---ALWASYS BY HAND IN THE SINK.


Yea how long a knife stays sharp is lot how its treated. As you suggest, only wash and dry by hand. Lot of modern stainless steels are rust prone, not like plain carbon steel, but not as rust free as older non-Chinese stainless steels. I assume they are lower in some expensive component like nickel. Besides hand washing, my notion edge should only touch food or hardwood cutting board. I store ones I use on magnetic strip. But as long as edge doesnt touch metal or stone or glass or other super hard surface.

One interesting thing about the lower end stainless steel flatware made in China, it seems to be hardened. Doesnt bend like low end stuff I remember as kid at school and at cheap restaurants. On other hand it will rust easily. Had a spoon fall behind stove. Didnt immediately rescue it and when I did pull stove out to get it, it had rust spots. This is cheapest storebrand Walmart kind flatware think it was like $10 for four place setting, but its is thin and very stiff, not bendy at all. I had just wanted some cheap everyday stuff so if it got lost or something not big deal. With animals around stuff like that can get lost. Didnt want plastic or bendy stuff. For the price its not lot more expensive than plastic throw away.


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## GREENCOUNTYPETE (Jul 25, 2006)

can't stand a dull knife 

carried a knife every day basically since I was 8

in the kitchen it would be a strange day to not need a knife 

that said most kitchen tasks can be done with just 2 knives 

an 8 inch chefs knife and a parring knife 
if I have a lot to chop , I grab the 10 inch chefs knife for greater efficiency.

Diamond steel and give a blade a few licks any time it feels less than sharp

real food needs to be cut


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## Macrocarpus (Jan 30, 2018)

Never tried to make a knife, but have an appreciation for good ones. I agree with HJ on th Chinese stuff---some of it is terrible. The best SMALL knife we have was made in France, stainless, six inch paring knife. I have a fondness for the old carbon steel, but you seldom see those any more. Like GC Pete, I like the diamond steel for keeping them sharp.


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## SustainableAg (Mar 16, 2017)

When I did a brief study in culinary school (didn't finish, wasn't for me), I was gifted an electric sharpener by a family member for Christmas. I used a whetstone prior to getting the electric sharpener - one is just as good as the other. My knives are _almost_ always sharp. I haven't had the time recently, so they need some love right now. I figure once the knife can't cut a tomato, it is time to sharpen them.  

I cook mostly from scratch, so my knives are in use multiple times per day. And as someone else said - hand wash your good knives! Don't put them in the dishwasher. 

I always have a pocket knife with me. I use it to open hay bales because somehow the scissors are always missing. So I just got into the habit of carrying one.


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## Macrocarpus (Jan 30, 2018)

Sustaiinable Ag; I never tried scissors on baler twine. I ALWAYS used my pocket knife. One of the best knives I ever had was a carbon steel blade given me by a friend at an auction "Here, take this and cut your baler twine---leave that pocket knife in your pocket". The carbon steel knife went into the kitchen.
PS: Another friend NEVER cut baler twine. He would painstakingly UNWIND THE STUFF from each bale and save the string to make rope.


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## HermitJohn (May 10, 2002)

People have come up with lot ways to sharpen knives, some I think better than others. But just like different people have different ideas of how sharp a sharp knife needs to be, so they differ on best way to sharpen them.

When I was a kid and tried to saddle up passing dinosaurs, we had an old treadle type grindstone one of the big ones. You shaped edge on that then used whetstone to sharpen it. The grindstone disappeared when Dad died and Mom sold the farm. Trying to sharpen a knife on just a cheap whetstone, especially if it needs reprofiling and not just renewing micro bevel can be painful. And yea stainless worse than older plain carbon steel. By way some of the old carbon steel knives were lot softer than modern knives, also makes them easier to sharpen. I have a few old Cattaraugus kitchen knives, plain carbon steel, but hardest dang carbon steel I ever ran across. Those are not easy to sharpen, but hold edge like nothing else. Mom had a Cattaraugus butcher knife she frequently used. I cant remember her ever having to sharpen that thing yet it was always very sharp. Carbon steel with a truly scary black patina. It either somehow got sold in boxes of stuff at her auction or otherwise got lost. I have one very similar I found, but its one of later ones that was chromed. Not stainless, but chromed carbon steel. Stainless was expensive in 40s and 50s so some manufacturers offered chromed carbon steel. Actually rather nice, limited rust and stayed shiny except edge and other spots chrome got rubbed off. It was high quality, the chrome doesnt peel like you would expect. Personally I dont find it terribly useful in my daily life, not cause anything wrong with the knife, but just not a configuration that is useful to me. Its more of a sentimental reminder of childhood.

Modern times. Well my thinking around electric sharpeners is colored by long ago experience seeing somebody ruin some nice knives using the sharpener on back of some electric can opener. No doubt those $200 jobbies, Chef Mate or whatever are better than that, though guessing they are still limited to a set profile and will ruin some knives that profile not appropriate for or knife that doesnt fit correctly in the slots provided. Also a chef knife with large bolster will not sharpen properly on such and dig out an area just back of bolster.

A cheap whetstone will work, but the cheaper ones wear quickly and it can take lot time if more than touchup needed. A quality set whetstones can be quite expensive. You want to see quality whetstones and knives sharpened on such, look for Burrfection channel on youtube.

I found for my needs little $30 1x30 Harbor Freight belt sander works great. Had it for many years now, and yea the price has doubled if I had to replace it. So $60+ now. I used aluminum oxide belts for while and they work, but can tell you the zirconium belts are much superior for knives. Use coarse one if you need to reprofile then work way up to finer grit belts. LIGHT TOUCH, let the belt do the work. And in 2021 not that much more expensive. Since I kinda got into this more than I thought, really would like a bigger belt sander to significantly modify/thin knife. Thats little much for the little Harbor Freight sander. I have a portable hand held belt sander with 4 inch wide belts, might try building a stand for it. Again not like I am in the business so dont want to spend bunch money, just like experimenting sometimes with more modifications than is possible any other way. 

Oh by way I found an interesting flat smooth stone in driveway that actually makes a pretty decent whetstone, very hard and polished. Not native pretty sure, probably from that time long ago bought some river rock for driveway. Hey it was cheapest "gravel" I could get but didnt work well on steep driveway.

Some like the pull through carbide gadget sharpeners. More power to anybody that uses one and likes it, but I had one long time ago and didnt find it useful. Same with the washer type sharpeners.

Now can carbide sharpener work, yea maybe, but not the pull through. There is a guy on youtube hawking little carbide pocket sharpener. Basically a small square piece carbide embedded into a plastic handle. That square shape is the key. Like most sharpening, it requires some technique and a light touch. Its "Sharpens Best" channel. The videos are fun, he is a showman. He really got my respect for one video where he answers the question, what if you are out in woods and lose your sharpens best gadget, and he precedes explaining how to sharpen a knife on a smooth rock. Not making a dime showing how to do that. He will try sharpening anything from cheese knives to putty knives to cake decorating knife, well you name it. But devil in details, like say using this gizmo takes practice and technique for kind results he gets. Oh and you can buy a similar tool under $10 on Amazon, look for the one with orange handle sold to sharpen Corona pruners. Havent done it, thought I might buy one just to experiment a bit. I doubt you will get as good of an edge as you will with a good whetstone or belt sander plus some stropping, but hey it fits in pocket or glovebox so if out in the woods... Or just find a good smooth river rock....


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## HermitJohn (May 10, 2002)

Macrocarpus said:


> Sustaiinable Ag; I never tried scissors on baler twine. I ALWAYS used my pocket knife. One of the best knives I ever had was a carbon steel blade given me by a friend at an auction "Here, take this and cut your baler twine---leave that pocket knife in your pocket". The carbon steel knife went into the kitchen.
> PS: Another friend NEVER cut baler twine. He would painstakingly UNWIND THE STUFF from each bale and save the string to make rope.


I still have the Sears pocket knife boss lent me to cut baler twine when I worked on his horse farm. I dont like carrying a pocket knife, mostly cause I frequently lose them. But yea it was kinda dull. He is long gone, but I sharpened it and still have it.

I have plenty pocket knives, but still rarely carry one. I keep a $2 chinese cheapie in car glovebox. Lose a $2 knife and you dont feel bad about it. Least not for very long. Its come in handy few times. And yea its sharp though it didnt come that way new out of package. The cheap chinese pocket knives are fine for rough use like cutting twine. Dont pry with them, they will snap. But as a cutting edge they are fine if you sharpen them. They will need relatively frequent sharpening if you use them very much.


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## HermitJohn (May 10, 2002)

Ok, think thread is about wound up. In original question when I referred to sharp knives, I meant more in terms of a knife thats supposed to be sharp, not about the degree of sharpness. I let thread digress. And pretty much homesteader types are going to use knives more than most people unless typical suburbanite happens to be hobbyist chef. or such.

Now remember my $1 box dull knives. Well the one that caught my eye, mostly being most outrageous was this, I call it the holey copper one.










The knife advertised as "never needs sharpening." Well the one in the box dull knives must not got the memo. So first I renewed edge like it came from factory following their bevels (obvious nobody had tried sharpening it). Meh, cracked carrots not cut them. And it was crazy light weight so required lot force. Not sure why people want featherweight kitchen knives, but each to their own. I want a little heft in anything bigger than a paring knife.

So narrowed edge angle. Feels much sharper but sure its also lot more delicate edge. As cheap as the thing was made, I wondered if edge would fold. But it held and cuts much better. Kept at this sharpness, probably be ok for somebody that didnt use a sharp knife much.  Use it a lot, you will need to sharpen it a lot. I found myself trying to use a pinch grip on it only to find my fingers pinching the hole nearest the handle. It was weird. Sharpened, its an ok glorified cheese knife, not much more than that. The large holes does work to keep slices raw veggies and cheese from sticking to the blade. The copper "non-stick" coating seems to help a bit too. Say again this knife will need frequent sharpening to be useful and seriously its dollar store kind of quality so even paying a $1 is being generous.


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## Terri (May 10, 2002)

I HAE to buy knives, as they all claim to be/stay sharp. And, when every knife claims to be razor sharp the end results is that no info is given.

I LOVE a high quality knife, but it is very hard to figure out which knives are high quality. or not. Price alone is not an indicator


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## HermitJohn (May 10, 2002)

Far as gimmi


Terri said:


> I HAE to buy knives, as they all claim to be/stay sharp. And, when every knife claims to be razor sharp the end results is that no info is given.
> 
> I LOVE a high quality knife, but it is very hard to figure out which knives are high quality. or not. Price alone is not an indicator



Lot times its not so much how long they stay actually sharp, its how long they feel sharp enough to use. Thinner blades will feel sharp longer assuming you find one that starts sharp. The geometry of the knife is just as important if not more so than the sharpness of the edge. I mentioned my experiment with that junk serrated Farberware paring knife. Ground off the serrations, then gave it a full flat grind, so full bevel both sides from spine to edge. Then sharpened the edge. I am still pretty amaze at results. It went from a throw away to very pleasant paring knife. I am curious how long it will continue feeling so sharp since its not great steel.

Now look at a four star Zwilling-Henckels chef knife. Its $100 new. 









Notice its also a full flat grind, and also distal taper from tip back to handle. Ok steel but nothing super special despite claims of "ice hardening" It will feel sharper longer because of very superior geometry of the blade and its great balance. By way you can get a used "dull" one for like $20 on Ebay. Its a bargain at $20. Very nice knife. I cant imagine giving $100 for any kitchen knife. Thats kinda nuts just to cut food. As say that large Farberware chef knife out of my $1 box of dull knives, once I thinned the blade a bit, and sharpened it, is actually pretty pleasant to use. It would need lot more work to match the Zwilling in cutting ability, but its pleasant enough, cuts carrots, doesnt crack them. Still sharp after a month. My guess treated nicely it will stay sharp for several months, course dont know that. Go back and watch that fun little youtube video I posted link in this thread, the guy that buys a 99cent thrift store knife, sharpens it and it outperforms a dull high end knife. Seriously the real way to have a sharp knife is to sharpen it. Dont pay the moon for some super hard steel that is supposed to stay sharp for 5 year. or something. Some of those kind knives tend to have edge chip, they tend to be bit more brittle.

Oh the granddaddy of the stays sharp knife is the Mac Original. Set sold for $20 back in 1960s. Made in Japan. See some comments of people that say it stayed sharp 30 years without sharpening. And super easy to sharpen on bottom of coffee mug.... Well if its super easy to sharpen, its not some super hard steel. Its good quality probably lot like the German knives, but like them not super hard. Its the design, its very thin blade and its full flat grind and distal taper. Sound familiar?








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Online shopping for Kitchen Knives & Accessories from a great selection of Cutlery Sets, Specialty Knives, Sharpeners, Cutting Boards, & more at everyday low prices.



www.amazon.com














The current pop fad knife is the KIWI. Made by small company in Thailand. Again thin blade knife, way softer steel than average, but also very easy to sharpen to very sharp edge. Think I mentioned link reviewing it earlier. Cost about $10 here or $2 in Thailand. People love them but assuming they take almost constant touch up to keep sharp, though thinness will make them feel sharp longer than they are actually sharp.










As I also mentioned, the knives I have seen that held edge longest were kitchen knives made by USA company called Cattaraugus. Carbon steel or some were chromed carbon steel. But hardened far harder than most and suspect vanadium or other additives to steel to toughen it, and thus difficult to sharpen. But they will hold an edge for an incredible long time considering the era they were made. The company went out of business in 1963. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cattaraugus_Cutlery_Company You see any modern ones with that name and its just a name. They did not make any stainless steel kitchen knives. Oh and its not unusual to find some that have NEVER been sharpened. I figure cause of the difficulty. Not sure if they sold them that way or what. Might been remaining stock when they went out of business, knives that just never were finished for retail sale.

Oh and never believe the hype. More lies told to sell knives than to sell cars. Best advice, find a knife that is comfortable for you to use, then learn how to sharpen it. All knives get dull. All knives can be sharpened.

Oh another low end knife I ran across (dont own one) that is full flat ground and distal taper is Winco *KWP-100 *//www.amazon.com/dp/B00ZVUOUSW/






Good steel, same as the German knives. probably need to be sharpened new out of package. Cheap knives rarely well sharpened new out of package. I saw them while back on Amazon for $9. but they are now $13. Anyway IMHO, probably equivalent to that Victorinox NSF chef knife with the plastic handle they want $40 for. All those commercial production sanitary NSF knives not that different and all knife makers offer one, they just dont tend to market them to consumers. Another similar one called Humbee (brand sold through restaurant supply places). But its like $15. But I like the Winco, full flat grind with distal taper, unexpected in low end production knife. If I were going to buy a new chef knife, would maybe choose it. But is a gamble. Cheap knives tend to vary in tempering and other quality issues. Not as much attention paid to individual knives. Its sold as a commodity.


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## HermitJohn (May 10, 2002)

HermitJohn said:


> Ok, think thread is about wound up. In original question when I referred to sharp knives, I meant more in terms of a knife thats supposed to be sharp, not about the degree of sharpness. I let thread digress. And pretty much homesteader types are going to use knives more than most people unless typical suburbanite happens to be hobbyist chef. or such.
> 
> Now remember my $1 box dull knives. Well the one that caught my eye, mostly being most outrageous was this, I call it the holey copper one.
> 
> ...


Just when you thought only low end knives were super gimmicky....


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## Rodeo's Bud (Apr 10, 2020)

My favorite knife to use daily is a cheap Wolfgang Puck red plastic handled job. It just works. It is comfortable.

One thing I don't understand is glass cutting boards. What the heck? Who thought that was a good idea?

As for inexpensive, or maybe not so inexpensive Chinese knives, I like the TUO brand off Amazon.

Thier utility and birds beak knives are incredible. They feel great in the hand.

Haven't picked up a larger one, but may this Christmas for myself.


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## HermitJohn (May 10, 2002)

Rodeo's Bud said:


> My favorite knife to use daily is a cheap Wolfgang Puck red plastic handled job. It just works. It is comfortable.


Thats all you can ask from any knife. Though you wouldnt know that from the hype those places that try to tell you the best knife. Oh I am sure some, maybe most, of those $100 to $500 knives are quite nice, but seriously claiming anything less is junk that will cut off your nose to spite your face? And truly dont get why they judge a knife on how sharp it is new out of package. I mean its been sharpened on an assembly line by automated machine as fast as possible. Its going to be sort of hit and miss, especially low end knives without much quality control. How about the testers have a pro sharpen knives to their best edge, then see how long it holds up in normal use without abusing the edge?

Factories dont hire retired gnomes to sit at bench hand honing each and every knife to its ultimate sharpness. Thats as silly as pretending knives are forged at midnight under full moon by elves in black forest using dragon breath. Those gnomes and elves are unionized and you want ultimate factory sharp knife, its going to cost you. Wont even mention expense of keeping a dragon around, they demand to be paid in gold and vestal virgins.


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## VBF (Apr 15, 2017)

At the very least, 2 times a day. Most often 3 or more and usually a couple different knives. I make all of our meals from scratch and we only eat out on special occasions.


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## jimLE (Apr 18, 2018)

I use knives in the kitchen everyday.from pairing knifes to what I consider full size knife's.i think one blade is 12 to 15 inches long.and I also have 3 handheld knives sharpeners.


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## Pony (Jan 6, 2003)

I use sharp knives daily. Learned a few years back that dull knives are dangerous knives.

Have a set of Chicago cutlery knives from the in-laws. But my favorite is an ancient Chicago cutlery knife that holds its edge, and is always properly sharpened. (My FIL sharpens the knives when the folks come to visit.)

Today, I used the knife set to dismantle a very large wethered goat. Sharp knives are a joy to use, and make my amateur attempts at butchering look almost passable. And the proper knife for the proper job is critical. I use one knife for skinning, and yet another knife for gently teasing the backstraps off the spine.


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## B&L Chicken Ranch and Spa (Jan 4, 2019)

whiterock said:


> I have loads of Old Hickory knives I bought at old hardware stores, but the majority came from estate and garage sales. The high carbon isn't as pretty and shiny as the stainless steel so the people would put them out to sale. Thrift stores are a good source of cheap good quality knives as well. I have one large butcher knife that I keep separately from anything else. If I put my hand anywhere near the edge of that one I can cut myself.
> 
> Ex would dull the edges of the knives in a rapid fashion, I would occasionally pick one up and find it dull, check out the rest in the drawer and end up sharpening all of them. I would tell her but she would invariably cut herself repeatedly for the next week or two.
> I have some dull knives that I can't keep sharp or have trouble sharpening. Mostly stainless. High carbon is easy to sharpen and maintain an edge.


I have the same knives, mostly bought at yard sales for a dollar or so. They are as good as my $100 knife, but not so good as my Japanese Knives. 
I love the old hicory knives although the high carbon steel is not so pretty. They do sharpen though!


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## HermitJohn (May 10, 2002)

No he didnt turn a $1 knife into a $300 one. But he did optimize the $1 knife into one thats all it could be. That looked like one of those old Japanese made knives sold in USA in 60s and 70s. Old Homestead or Sante Fe or similar and they are decent enough, will hold an edge. Ok, looking at handle it says REVERE so its one of Japanese knifes resold with Revereware handle. Whatever brand those big clunky cheap looking wood handles are the tipoff. 

He gives it a full flat grind and greatly improves the handle. Unfortunately the comments ignored most of what he did with the full flat grind. And his comment below video that knife geometry is very important. Most are focussed on super duper steels and finely honed edge and forget everything else. Whatever its a really fun well made video.






Chef Panko says use the knife that meets your needs. A high end sushi knife not necessarily great for local butcher or the home cook. All depends what you are using it for.


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## Rodeo's Bud (Apr 10, 2020)

I would spend 1,000 bucks on a really nice sushi knife and end up hanging it on the wall.

Then I'd probably use a 75 dollar one to cut my sushi.


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## HermitJohn (May 10, 2002)

Rodeo's Bud said:


> I would spend 1,000 bucks on a really nice sushi knife and end up hanging it on the wall.
> 
> Then I'd probably use a 75 dollar one to cut my sushi.


Ok, I personally cant probably see spending $1000 for a wall ornament, but each to their own. Did see some older Japanese knife shaped like a fish. $2 or $3, now that would make cute wall ornament. Completely useless as a knife I am sure. Tell you hanging real swords, guns, or knives on wall, just asking for attractive nuisance lawsuit after some kid gets it down and plays with it. Even the fish knife probably get some kids attention.


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## 101pigs (Sep 18, 2018)

HermitJohn said:


> Ok, I personally cant probably see spending $1000 for a wall ornament, but each to their own. Did see some older Japanese knife shaped like a fish. $2 or $3, now that would make cute wall ornament. Completely useless as a knife I am sure. Tell you hanging real swords, guns, or knives on wall, just asking for attractive nuisance lawsuit after some kid gets it down and plays with it. Even the fish knife probably get some kids attention.


My fishing knike is steel 1095 . Don't need to shapen much. Use my elec. grinder to sharpen it


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## HermitJohn (May 10, 2002)

101pigs said:


> My fishing knike is steel 1095 . Don't need to shapen much. Use my elec. grinder to sharpen it


Not fishing knife, but "fish knife"... knife shaped like a fish. Like this:


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## frogmammy (Dec 8, 2004)

So, what's your take on ceramic knives? How do you think it compares to steel? I bought a mid-size ceramic knife because I was curious. Have used it a few times, but it is one of the last ones I grab. It just doesn't feel right.

Mon


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## HermitJohn (May 10, 2002)

frogmammy said:


> So, what's your take on ceramic knives? How do you think it compares to steel? I bought a mid-size ceramic knife because I was curious. Have used it a few times, but it is one of the last ones I grab. It just doesn't feel right.
> 
> Mon


I had a cheap ceramic paring knife once. It holds its edge well. But I think you need diamond sharpener to sharpen it. It is kinda brittle too. Hey it wont rust! I never bothered finding a sharpener for mine and yes they do eventually get dull, though it wasnt super sharp new out of package.

Some knives just feel better than others, whatever they are made of. And thats completely up to you as to how comfortable it feels in your hand, weight, balance, sharpness, etc. Just cause Julia Child liked some knife or some modern chef likes it, doesnt mean its right for you.


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## HermitJohn (May 10, 2002)

Oh had to go grocery shopping today. Stopped at Goodwill. No knives, think the thrift stores are getting out of selling sharp knives in store, maybe too much liability. They did have nice selection used dvds. Got some oddball George Clooney movie called Men that Stare at Goats. Figured it couldnt be too bad with GC in it. I had never heard of it.

Anyway guess I was disappointed no knives to look through at Goodwill so looked some at Walmart. Wasnt very impressed. At low end maybe two that be worth a gamble. Store brand called Thyme and Table, chinese cheap forged knife with some kind of coating to make it look "Damascus" like though personally I thought it just made it look super cheapo crappo kind of fake. Meh, but had nice weight, looked like it could be sharpened and $10. The curious one was a Tramontina NSF (like sold in restaurant supply places with the white plastic handle). It was light weight but not super light like what stamped Farberware has become, current stamped Farberware are true flyweight. The Tramontina flat ground and distal taper for $8. Made in Brazil. That was probably the most interesting. Might be only non-Chinese knife they had in stock. I looked online and the 10inch version goes for like $40?? That seemed excessive. Saw a USED 8inch version on Ebay for $22 which is kinda crazy for this type knife. So a new one at Wally for $8. Be worth a gamble if you need a cheap knife. I am sure like most cheap knives it would need sharpening new out of the package. I am seriously overburdened with excess knives so not in market to buy more unless its something really special or another $1 box of dull knives at yard sale. I find one of those MAC knives cheap, that I might be interested in playing with. But they tend to bring more than used four star Zwilling-Henckels. No idea why, just current popularity of Japanese knives I think.


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## HermitJohn (May 10, 2002)

Yea the damaged MAC brought lot more than worth to me. I hope somebody that will get some good use out of it bought it. Worth the money if you wanted a MAC as a daily driver and know how to sharpen it. Interestingly was looking in my box of knives for something else and saw that old $1 8in thin bladed chef knife from Dollar Tree. Yep brand new for $1 retail, so you know only the best kind of steel... LOL Last time in DT, looked and they no longer sell an 8in chef knife, wholesale prices on junk went up I guess. Though Walmart does sell similar "Mainstays" knife for $4. Anyway I had sharpened it along with some other knives in the box not that long ago, mostly to clean them up after mouse peed in the box. Mouse pee is corrosive. Hadnt tried it. So got it out. Sharp like it is now, it is cutting far above its grade and pleasant to use. That thin blade with very sharp edge and narrow tapered grind, and it easily makes the blind cuts in onion when dicing it. Its as good at dicing onions as any knife I own. And no problem with carrots. Now from experience with it long ago, when I tried using it for couple week, I know it doesnt hold a sharp edge long time. But still for $1 knife wouldnt be that much trouble to sharpen it every couple weeks as needed if thats all I had. So yea kinda proves my observation of why thin bladed knives like that Mac and the Kiwi are popular. The geometry matters. Unfortunately thin bladed knives tend to be made cheaply (MAC and some other Japanese knives the exception) and dont come new out of package very sharp. This one sure didnt, but knew that when I bought it, it was one of my early knives to practice sharpening, never intended it as a daily driver. If you can put a really sharp polished edge on $1 knife, you have learned how to sharpen any knife. It really is worth the effort to learn.


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## Terri (May 10, 2002)

A question to you knife sharpeners.

I have a knife that is very sharp, and the sharpened edge curves from the body of the knife to the edge. If, in the future I sharpen it on the curved side I believe it will not be as sharp: Would it be better to sharpen the flat side?

If that makes sense


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## HermitJohn (May 10, 2002)

Terri said:


> A question to you knife sharpeners.
> 
> I have a knife that is very sharp, and the sharpened edge curves from the body of the knife to the edge. If, in the future I sharpen it on the curved side I believe it will not be as sharp: Would it be better to sharpen the flat side?
> 
> If that makes sense


I think you are describing a single bevel knife? Most western knives are dual bevel with equal bevel on both sides. But many Japanese knives (and wannabe Japanese knives) are single bevel, very thin blade, usually a very narrow angle. And for those single bevel knives they sell both right handed and left handed versions. There are also dual bevel knives where one side has bevel at different angle to the other side. Those tend to confuse lot sharpeners. Luckily they are rare. 

Single bevel knives can be converted to dual bevel, but if you own a high end single bevel, best to leave it like it came, and rethink use you are making of it, usually these were for specific use only, not general purpose knife. Cheap ones, doesnt matter so much. Usually in USA mostly run across single bevel with serrated blades only. Some serrated blades can be sharpened with basically what looks like a tapered chainsaw file. The micro serrated edge cant be sharpened, only way to continue using such a knife is to grind off the serrations and give it a regular flat grind. Some this can be successful, some the metal so cheap as to not be worth the effort. Most serrated blades are intended to be throw away when they get dull. 

On the single bevel vs dual bevel. Back in the day 1960s, Quikut came up with a cheap paring knife, hollow ground with dual bevel. Mostly given away for good will gesture, as a bonus to customers of various products. I had uncle that sold Pioneer seed corn. My aunt gave my mother couple of these knives with PIONEER written on side of handle. Great paring knife, stayed sharp forever. Quikut didnt make high end knives, the sharpness was from the geometry of the thing. And yes like any knife they do eventually get dull. 

Time passes, and most people now know these knives from Pampered Chef selling them However they started cheapening them to single bevel without hollow grind. Still popular cause I guess people had no experience with the original dual bevel hollow ground version. Anymore I think the Chinese out-cheaped Quikut and most now are Chinese clones and not usually very sharp. I have a couple of the old Pioneer ones and they are still great, easy to sharpen and edge holds long time. Took some effort to get the newer single bevel ones sharp enough to be nice. And yes I finally did convert them to dual bevel. That single bevel made every cut not want to go straight, course didnt help that they were nowhere near as sharp as the original dual bevel ones. The USA single bevel Quikut ones are the same steel I think so worth modifying. I have sharpened the Chinese version successfully, but the handles on them are pitiful and plastic much more brittle. You can of course make your own handle from bit of oak or hickory branch, epoxy the tang into slit cut into the wood. Sand it to contours you want and use tung oil (food safe) to treat the wood. Most people just toss these as disposible though they can indeed be sharpened and live much longer life.

Edit: Might add that if you convert a single bevel knife, dont just sharpen the edge on the flat side, you need to reprofile the whole blade, you want both sides to have an equal taper. Yep, like always, the devil is in the details.


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## Terri (May 10, 2002)

Looking up the terms I would say that I have a single bevel hollow grind. It does a good job dicing vegetables, and so I have set it aside for that purpose, and I use a cover to keep the blade sharp.

My niece was selling Cutco knives, and so I bought one of a style that I have wanted but that I could not buy in my area. I figured that I could sharpen it if I needed to, but it arrived very sharp and so far it is doing well for me


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## HermitJohn (May 10, 2002)

I personally have never used or even seen a Cutco up close, just pics. But good gosh, if one goes to knife or chef forums, this seems more political and controversial than covid shots. Some people love them and think they are good value, some think its a multilevel marketing scam selling mediocre knives at high price. If you like the style and dont mind the price, then I say more power to you. But since they are mostly marketed to those that have no interest in self sharpening their knives, cant imagine being interested myself. Arent most of them some kind of 'unique' micro serrated edge though sales reps deny its serrated? I think only a few of their knives are plain straight edge? And you can mail all Cutco knives to factory for free sharpening, though you have to pay postage both ways?

I say use whatever knife and sharpening method works for you. It really is an individual preference thing including how sharp you want your knives. I have just found knife sharpening in its various incarnations interesting. But once I was retired and disgusted with dull knives, determined to learn how to properly sharpen one. A truly sharp knife is an eye opener in food prep. Whats funny is I can usually tell just from pic of a knife, if it shows edge, whether its actually sharp or not. New or used, most arent that well sharpened. Not that it matters, most knives doesnt take long to just put sharp edge on them. Reprofiling whole blade is a horse of a different color.

And hey I spent decades with one old butcher knife my ex brought into marriage and few cheap paring knives. I never could get that thing truly sharp, just almost sharp, well sharp enough to be functional as a knife, not great but.... Though found it under my ancient refrigerator when it finally died two or three years ago and had to be replaced. I can now put a truly sharp edge on it. This knife I struggled with all those years finally sharper than I could ever imagined it. Course I mostly prefer chef knife anymore. Cutting board plus sharp chef knife (or traditional Chinese cleaver) lot faster and more productive for veggies. I had never used a chef knife, but got into watching those PBS cooking shows. Just gotta keep fingers out of the way. And the knife has to be sharp or it doesnt really work. Having to force knife into cut means its not sharp or has bad geometry and is wedging itself.


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## Terri (May 10, 2002)

I have decided that some knives should be stout but others should be sharp. A sharp knife is lovely if you have a lot of apples to peel but bot so good for disjointing a chicken!

I have slowly gathered together all of the knives I needed, now I just need to maintain them

I love tools that make the job easier, and that includes knives


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## HermitJohn (May 10, 2002)

Yea traditional serious heavy duty meat cleavers were never sharpened very sharp, dont want super sharp edge dealing with bones. It wasnt called a meat ax for nothing. Though I have found hatchets and axes are whole lot easier to use when very sharp. Well to cut wood. If you are trying to use one to cut roots and its going to dull quickly anyway....

I found an old ax head out in woods some years back, and still not sure what in world they used that thing for to get the edges in condition they were in. Looked like they were pounding edge on some heavy steel or something, but imagine they were busting rocks with it. Moving stuff, ran across it the other day and just curious if i could make it sharp. I did but it took whole lot shaping work with angle grinder before it came near belt sander. Been nightmare trying to reshape it with a file or one of those old treadle grindstones. It was super blunt with notches in what had been the edge.


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## Danaus29 (Sep 12, 2005)

Disjointing chickens and meat cleavers? Grandma and I cut up hundreds of chickens with little paring knives. 

I couldn't get the ducks to disjoint as easily as a chicken would. Sharp pruning shears worked great for cutting wing tips and feet off a duck carcass. I like pruning shears when cleaning squirrel too.

Every time I read this thread I think to myself that I need to sharpen my knives. Then in the morning I forget that I should sharpen my knives.


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## Terri (May 10, 2002)

HermitJohn, I expect by the time you finally got the ax sharp you knew why they threw it out!

Danaus29, I have also cut up chickens with a paring knife. I much rather prefer something bigger, heavier, and serrated that will easily saw through the cartilage. MUCH faster than using a paring knife!

I kind of envy the Japanese chefs that can cut a bird in half with a single WHACK but then I would have something my family would not eat. DH is terribly fussy about the chicken bones being as he expects them to be


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## Danaus29 (Sep 12, 2005)

@Terri, I sure would like to get together with you to clean and disjoint a few chickens. I would like to see how you do it.


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## HermitJohn (May 10, 2002)

Danaus29 said:


> Disjointing chickens and meat cleavers? Grandma and I cut up hundreds of chickens with little paring knives.
> 
> I couldn't get the ducks to disjoint as easily as a chicken would. Sharp pruning shears worked great for cutting wing tips and feet off a duck carcass. I like pruning shears when cleaning squirrel too.
> 
> Every time I read this thread I think to myself that I need to sharpen my knives. Then in the morning I forget that I should sharpen my knives.


Watch that Jacques Pépin take apart a chicken or any other knife skills and its amazing. No you dont need a cleaver to do chicken, but a heavier cleaver for larger bones in meat way to go. People ruin perfectly good knives trying to crack bones with them.

Oh I am not surprised somebody discarded that ax in condition I found it. Used to get ax head 50cents at farm auction and whole ax with good handle for $1 or $2, and if you have to sharpen one that damaged without an angle grinder or large belt sander to reshape it first, it would not be fun or quick. What amazes me is how it got into that condition. It wasnt just dull, it had busted up very ragged edge on both side (double bit ax). Like say it looked like they pounded on side of heavy chunk steel with it. Sure didnt get like that chopping on wood. But out in woods, not lot steel so assume they were pounding rocks with it. Either they just decided to sacrifice it cause they didnt have alternative. Or they just didnt care as it would be super cheap to replace. Nobody relying on an ax to fell trees would treat it like that. So must been discarded after chainsaw era.


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## Terri (May 10, 2002)

Danaus29 said:


> @Terri, I sure would like to get together with you to clean and disjoint a few chickens. I would like to see how you do it.


Well, I learned it by watching a Chinese chef cut up a whole chicken on TV. I only altered the method slightly. And, after I pop a joint I do not care to use a small knife to cut through the remaining cartilage as a larger knife makes it much easier for me. .


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## HermitJohn (May 10, 2002)

I mentioned the MAC original knives. Well unwilling to spend much on worn out one to experiment, went looking for a knockoff. There are several including West Bend Miracle Maid knives made in Wisconsin. But also La Borde, Moravan, and others from Japan. Ended up with a Dione Lucas knife. Its bit more angular than MAC and no hanging hole in end of the blade, but same thin blade with full flat grind. And some people that really like them. Dione Lucas by way was first female graduate of Le Cordon Bleu in Paris. Opened restaurants and had first female chef tv show, yes predates Julia Child. Anyway she came out with a line of knives in 1971 just before her death later that year. MAC still sells their original style knife, the others mostly disappeared along with the 1970s including Dione Lucas. 

So its 9 inch knife, thin blade with full flat grind. Made in Japan. I sharpened it. Be aware lot people get way too aggressive sharpening these thin blade knives and edge is no longer very even. They take a delicate touch to sharpen. Never put one of these in pull through sharpener or electric sharpener, will destroy that thin edge.

Sharpened, I tried it out. Best onion dicing knife ever. Makes those horizontal blind cuts super easy. Fine cutting other stuff. With the thin blade I would avoid bones and frozen stuff. Its really a slicing/fillet type knife only, though it chopped carrots ok. Flat edge so a slider, not a rocker. No idea how long it would keep an edge, being thin with full flat grind, no doubt stay feeling sharper longer. Really is a nice knife for slicing. Blade flexes, more like a fillet knife than super cheapo kind stamped knife that bends in the wind. This is longest, most you will see are 6 inch or shorter.


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## HermitJohn (May 10, 2002)

HermitJohn said:


> I mentioned the MAC original knives. Well unwilling to spend much on worn out one to experiment, went looking for a knockoff. There are several including West Bend Miracle Maid knives made in Wisconsin. But also La Borde, Moravan, and others from Japan. Ended up with a Dione Lucas knife. Its bit more angular than MAC and no hanging hole in end of the blade, but same thin blade with full flat grind. And some people that really like them. Dione Lucas by way was first female graduate of Le Cordon Bleu in Paris. Opened restaurants and had first female chef tv show, yes predates Julia Child. Anyway she came out with a line of knives in 1971 just before her death later that year. MAC still sells their original style knife, the others mostly disappeared along with the 1970s including Dione Lucas.
> 
> So its 9 inch knife, thin blade with full flat grind. Made in Japan. I sharpened it. Be aware lot people get way too aggressive sharpening these thin blade knives and edge is no longer very even. They take a delicate touch to sharpen. Never put one of these in pull through sharpener or electric sharpener, will destroy that thin edge.
> 
> Sharpened, I tried it out. Best onion dicing knife ever. Makes those horizontal blind cuts super easy. Fine cutting other stuff. With the thin blade I would avoid bones and frozen stuff. Its really a slicing/fillet type knife only, though it chopped carrots ok. Flat edge so a slider, not a rocker. No idea how long it would keep an edge, being thin with full flat grind, no doubt stay feeling sharper longer. Really is a nice knife for slicing. Blade flexes, more like a fillet knife than super cheapo kind stamped knife that bends in the wind. This is longest, most you will see are 6 inch or shorter.


Taking a break and got to thinking more about the $1 Dollar Tree chef knife. So took it out and ground it as close to a full flat grind as possible. I dont have tools to really do it right, but its about as good as I got that experimental Farberware paring knife, which is still sharp by the way.

Ok, its not quite as good as the Dione Lucas for horizontal blind cuts into an onion, but darn close. The dione lucas knife has full flat grind from factory so perfect profile. Its better for slicing and chopping cause its traditional French chef knife shape. I'm lot more a rocker than a slider, so that completely flat bottom on the Dione Lucas not my favorite way to go, same way I am not wild about santoku knives with flat bottom, though some now though have curved bottom. Be fine for trimming the fat or whatever, but not so much using it on the cutting board. But thats just me, lot people prefer the slide cuts. Traditional French knives were made with flatter belly for slide cut. Some were very triangular or at least got that way after years of sharpening. The Germans made the more curved bottom for rock chopping.

No idea how long it will feel sharp, remember this sold brand new for $1 so can imagine the quality built into it at factory cause it would had to sell wholesale for small fraction of $1. But geometry of blade matters and it feels sharper with approximation of full flat grind (V-shape, spine to edge). Its as thin of a blade as the Dione Lucas. This is all interesting to me cause for many years I much preferred a heavier chef knife, still would for many things. But a really sharp full flat grind thin blade knife for sure has advantages especially for thin slices and actually for finer chopping. And its not unpleasant to use with pinch grip. For the Dollar Tree knife to compete at all is kinda amazing. It was sure a dull kludgy knife new out of package and even sharpening the factory edge didnt make it feel great. Sure most of these quickly got discarded in trash from frustrated owners. Now like say, while its sharp after modification, it can compete with any knife for slicing and dicing. How long it can remain feeling that sharp....


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## Wellbuilt (Dec 25, 2020)

I cut food a few times a day,
i buy every thing in big pieces we feed a lot of people . 
Every thing comes in vacuum pack s 
I touch up my blade every time I pick up a knife .
Just a few passes on my steel . 
All my knifes are sharp .


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## HermitJohn (May 10, 2002)

Wellbuilt said:


> I cut food a few times a day,
> i buy every thing in big pieces we feed a lot of people .
> Every thing comes in vacuum pack s
> I touch up my blade every time I pick up a knife .
> ...


Not criticizing in slightest, I know lot people like to steel their knife frequently including professional chefs and it apparently works for them to keep knife feeling sharp longer. I personally have found this unnecessary unless I bang edge on something harder than the knife, throwing it out of alignment, then tend to prefer to strop rather than steel. I dont tend to touch the edge with any tool unless it starts feeling dull. So just seems a curious practice to me. Course some use a ceramic or diamond coated steel to actually sharpen.... Traditional smooth or grooved steel was to align the edge, it wont actually sharpen them (wont hurt them either if edge already straight) and you can in emergency steel one knife with spine of another knife. A folded over edge or out of alignment edge will make an otherwise sharp knife feel dull.


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## Wellbuilt (Dec 25, 2020)

I use all of the above , I like a sharp edge I use some vintage Chicago cutlery knives I bought 3 block sets in 91 kept one and gave 2 sets to family for Christmas .
unfortunately both of them passed away so I have a draw full of knives 🤷‍♂️ . 
They are a good steal they hold a edge and are easy to maintain .
My grand father used a steel on his big carvers every time he picked it up soooo I started doing it in the 70s , I have a electric sharpener with a strop it works good and I bust it out every 10 years or so . I cook for 15 people every nite so there is a lot of chopping and cutting going on . 
I can feel the difference before I steel and after , specially with fillet knives . 
I have a strop for sharping Straight razors But I never thought to use it . 
It’s been working for me for a long time .


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## Forcast (Apr 15, 2014)

Used one today to mix my chocolate milk..no clean spoons


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## HermitJohn (May 10, 2002)

Wellbuilt said:


> I use all of the above , I like a sharp edge I use some vintage Chicago cutlery knives I bought 3 block sets in 91 kept one and gave 2 sets to family for Christmas .
> unfortunately both of them passed away so I have a draw full of knives 🤷‍♂️ .
> They are a good steal they hold a edge and are easy to maintain .
> My grand father used a steel on his big carvers every time he picked it up soooo I started doing it in the 70s , I have a electric sharpener with a strop it works good and I bust it out every 10 years or so . I cook for 15 people every nite so there is a lot of chopping and cutting going on .
> ...


Interesting cause fillet knives traditionally have been little softer steel so probably do benefit more. I dont personally know, but read that you dont want to steel some of newer harder steels, those with a rockwell hardness over 60 as it can damage them. They are bit more brittle, also less likely to get out of alignment I suppose. They also tend to be rather expensive, more than I would pay for a kitchen knife. 

I find I need to sharpen kitchen knife I use regularly between 6month and year to keep them really sharp, they no doubt would cut for couple years or even longer unsharpened but become less pleasant to use. Touch up really doesnt take much metal off and its not huge burden. Now I have been experimenting with some crappy knives and no idea how long they will hold an edge, my theory the geometry of blade has a lot to do with how sharp the knife feels and how long, more so than the metal its made of. Lot of how long an edge lasts also has to do with how they are treated. My theory is edge of kitchen knife shouldnt touch anything but food or hardwood cutting board. Course accidents happen and can get dropped or banged on edge of pan or something.

Stock market people say never try to catch a falling knife. It applies in the kitchen too....


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## Wellbuilt (Dec 25, 2020)

HermitJohn said:


> Interesting cause fillet knives traditionally have been little softer steel so probably do benefit more. I dont personally know, but read that you dont want to steel some of newer harder steels, those with a rockwell hardness over 60 as it can damage them. They are bit more brittle, also less likely to get out of alignment I suppose. They also tend to be rather expensive, more than I would pay for a kitchen knife.
> 
> I find I need to sharpen kitchen knife I use regularly between 6month and year to keep them really sharp, they no doubt would cut for couple years or even longer unsharpened but become less pleasant to use. Touch up really doesnt take much metal off and its not huge burden. Now I have been experimenting with some crappy knives and no idea how long they will hold an edge, my theory the geometry of blade has a lot to do with how sharp the knife feels and how long, more so than the metal its made of. Lot of how long an edge lasts also has to do with how they are treated. My theory is edge of kitchen knife shouldnt touch anything but food or hardwood cutting board. Course accidents happen and can get dropped or banged on edge of pan or something.
> 
> Stock market people say never try to catch a falling knife. It applies in the kitchen too....


My girls are tough on the edge of a knife , I run those thru a cheep sharpener that sits on the counter .
 I’ve been using a steel on my knives or diamond steel some times to Touch up the edge 
for 40 years and it doesn’t show any wear at all . 
I have some Henkel kitchen knives that hold a edge but they are hard to get them sharp
so they sit in the draw .
My sheath knifes get a stone or diamond sharpener , puma, buck are hard and they take a lot of loving to get a good edge . 
I will touch them up with a diamond coated steal half wat thru a deer or more often if I’m hitting bone .


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## newfieannie (Dec 24, 2006)

what would be a good fillet knife to buy HJ? my son broke his a couple days ago while working on his buck and i thought i would surprise him with another. that one he had for many years . i think it belonged to his father so no shame for it. ~Georgia


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## HermitJohn (May 10, 2002)

newfieannie said:


> what would be a good fillet knife to buy HJ? my son broke his a couple days ago while working on his buck and i thought i would surprise him with another. that one he had for many years . i think it belonged to his father so no shame for it. ~Georgia


Depends what you want to spend. Mora (Sweden) makes some good inexpensive knives including fillet knives. But you can find lot styles low end and high end. Find one that feels good in your hand and price range you like. Most knives can be sharpened, some easier than others.

Finnish company called Marttiini makes good fillet knives. But every major knife maker in world will have a fillet knife so again find one that is comfortable with right amount flex for your tastes and there you go. Amount flex you want in a fillet knife is personal preference.


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## Forcast (Apr 15, 2014)

I know my grand had a little pealing knife. If you touched it she would stand over you till it was put back in the right place. Took me many years to find one i felt that way about.


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## HermitJohn (May 10, 2002)

Wellbuilt said:


> My girls are tough on the edge of a knife , I run those thru a cheep sharpener that sits on the counter .
> I’ve been using a steel on my knives or diamond steel some times to Touch up the edge
> for 40 years and it doesn’t show any wear at all .
> I have some Henkel kitchen knives that hold a edge but they are hard to get them sharp
> ...


I have some German and Spanish made Zwilling-Henckels. Used ones can be real bargain, new ones not so much. I always thought they were pretty easy to sharpen. Easier than some cheap knives. The Asian/Chinese Henckels have no idea.

Not a fan of the pull through sharpeners. Usually the relatively weak rough edge they produce doesnt last very long. But for a cheap knife that is going to be used by careless person, might be way to go.


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## Wellbuilt (Dec 25, 2020)

These are good knives and cheep they sharpen easy and hold a edge .
I like the plastic handle ,they allso come with a white rubber handle that I like better for cold weather


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## newfieannie (Dec 24, 2006)

Thanks HJ! i hadn't thought about this in years until we started talking about knives but many years ago i had a friend who worked at the Grohmann factory about 50 miles from me. wasn't sure if it was still around but i checked and it is . seems they are well known all over the world. i'm checking them out now. they have skinners. is that the same as a filliter? ~Georgia


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## HermitJohn (May 10, 2002)

Wellbuilt said:


> These are good knives and cheep they sharpen easy and hold a edge .
> I like the plastic handle ,they allso come with a white rubber handle that I like better for cold weather
> View attachment 101668


The white handle NSF rated knives like this that restaurants use are usually good buy, better than super cheap department store knives. Dexter has good bit of restaurant market for this kind of knife and for good reason I imagine. though personally think the Victorinox version is bit over hyped and over priced. Might also look at the Winco Stäl version and the Tramontina Proline version and Mundial whatever they call theirs, and Humbee Cuisine Pro. All lesser known but very similar. But every major knife company or restaurant supply company makes them. Including Wusthoff and Henckels.


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## HermitJohn (May 10, 2002)

newfieannie said:


> Thanks HJ! i hadn't thought about this in years until we started talking about knives but many years ago i had a friend who worked at the Grohmann factory about 50 miles from me. wasn't sure if it was still around but i checked and it is . seems they are well known all over the world. i'm checking them out now. they have skinners. is that the same as a filliter? ~Georgia


Skinning knife usually a short wider curved blade or sometimes a short blade with a rounded sharp end, seen many homemade ones. Fillet knife usually long narrow flexible knife. Skinning knife for hunter, fillet knife for fisherman.


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## Wellbuilt (Dec 25, 2020)

I mite be good if you can get him one with the same shape blade ,a guy becomes one with a blade especially a filet knife or skinner . 
I use different knives a small curved blade for smaller 10 15” fish a long strait blade for 15 25” fist and a large curved blade 12” long for big fish or any heavy cutting .


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## Lisa in WA (Oct 11, 2004)

Every day. At least a couple of times a day.


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## HermitJohn (May 10, 2002)

newfieannie said:


> Thanks HJ! i hadn't thought about this in years until we started talking about knives but many years ago i had a friend who worked at the Grohmann factory about 50 miles from me. wasn't sure if it was still around but i checked and it is . seems they are well known all over the world. i'm checking them out now. they have skinners. is that the same as a filliter? ~Georgia











Regular Line Fillet Knife & Leather Sheath


Grohmann Fillet Knife Sets Responding to the needs of the fishing industry and to meet the individual requirements of each sport fisherman, Grohmann has designed a lightweight, durable, yet...




www.grohmannknives.com


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## HermitJohn (May 10, 2002)

Oh getting about time to go grocery shopping and running low on raw produce. For something to add to my salad, sliced into a spaghetti squash from my garden this year. Hard shell. One slice then remove the shell and inner seed area and chop it up. Well first used sharp Yorktowne chef knife (older Japanese knife think clone of the Old Homestead knives). It did fine. Then this afternoon thought about the modified Dollar Tree knife and the Dione Lucas knife. Very thin blade light weight knives. Nobody recommends cutting up hard shell winter squash with such. Ok, amazingly neither had much problem, but the Dione Lucas sliced it easier. Still not sure why it outperforms, but interesting. But one of those facts of life, truly any sharp knife beats any dull knife. The edge on the Dollar Tree (Royal Norfolk) knife is holding up surprisingly well. Cost whole dollar brand new so you know only the finest best tempered steel..... made from only the best scavenged tin cans. I think its from me giving it full flat grind. The geometry matters.


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## Terri (May 10, 2002)

Welcome to the Singletree, Martynana!


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## HermitJohn (May 10, 2002)

When I was in Walmart yesterday looked again at that $8 Tramontina Proline Chef Knife made in Brazil. Ok full flat grind with distal taper. Its one of those NSF restaurant knives with white plastic handle. I threw one in cart to try. First amazingly it was pretty sharp and usable new out of package, not expected with $8 knife. Good as any knife I have dicing up onion or chopping carrot. Just the little bit I used it, yea if I could only have one chef knife and Walmart only option to purchase it from, then yea, could easily live with this one. Like any knife you get lot more bang for buck if you know how to sharpen it. This is one I would sharpen on stone or on small belt sander then strop it.

https://www.walmart.com/ip/Tramontina-Pro-Series-8-Inch-Chefs-Knife/917025500 The reviews on Walmart site are "incentivized" so assume they got free one for a good review. The eight inch isnt sold on Amazon, but the ten inch is. Much more useful reviews. Anyway expect it to hold its edge upto six month from those reviews. Course depends how you treat it. Treat it like a $200 knife that only touches food or hardwood cutting board and suspect you get year before it needs sharpening. Bang it on trees and rocks or glass cutting board or metal pan, and it will, like any knife, dull quickly.

This isnt a high end knife by any imagination, but its the best new retail $8 knife (in todays money) fresh out of package I have ever seen. If there is a downside it would be the plastic handle, but again its $8 and all these economy restaurant knives are like this. The best knife to compare this to is the Victorinox, they sell theirs for $40 which I consider seriously over priced for what it is. Its no better and probably not as good as this Tramontina. Look at Amazon reviews on the Victorinox, not everybody is as happy with it as the tv show chefs are with it as their "economy pick". Before all the hype, they were selling it for $25, much more realistic price for it. Meaning yea, the Tramontina is being sold below its actual value I think.


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## Shrek (May 1, 2002)

Posted 11/16/21 10:08 P.M. CST

All of my kitchen knives are razor sharp regardless if cheap ones or more expensive thanks to the sharpening gear a friend who works at a meat processor as his shift knife sharpener gave me 20 years ago and taught me how to sharpen as he does on his $30 or so an hour job.

A few minutes dressing the edge before use and even the cheap Family Dollar Store set I bought when I first moved out on my own 40 years ago still get sharp even though the ones I use the most of that 5 piece set are wearing thin.

Once a month or so , I sharpen the knives I use most as he taught me and in between the butcher sharpening, kitchen dressing with the steel holds the edge for me.


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## HermitJohn (May 10, 2002)

Shrek said:


> Posted 11/16/21 10:08 P.M. CST
> 
> All of my kitchen knives are razor sharp regardless if cheap ones or more expensive


Yep, any sharp knife beats any dull knife. No matter how you sharpen it. And most cheap knives can be sharpened even if they were not very sharp brand new from factory. What seems odd to me, find a used knife that looks like its never been sharpened and you know the thing is 50 year old. I guess once the factory edge wore down beyond usability, it spent rest of its life in back some kitchen drawer. Useless in kitchen but too good to throw away until estate auction. 

Only thing worse is those somebody tried to sharpen with an aggressive electric grinder and end up with big concave hump in the middle of the blade. Some of pull through gadgets used aggressively can really tear up a blade too. The one that's never been sharpened is easy. Reprofiling that one abused on electric grinder very difficult, have to use a cutoff saw to reshape it (being careful not to overheat the metal) before sharpening, hoping enough metal left to be useful. Yea you can reshape with an aggressive whetstone, but it will be VERY time consuming as you have to remove lot metal. A large belt sander work too, but few have access to such.


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## muleskinner2 (Oct 7, 2007)

Over thirty years ago not long after I met my wife, she wanted me to meet her parents. So we met them for dinner at a nice Steak House. I ordered my steak rare, and when it arrived I pulled my Case Trapper out of my pocket and used it to cut the steak. Everybody else was sawing through their steak with the steak knives, and my soon to me mother in law commented on how sharp my knife was.

Her daughter never missed a beat. "Oh, he sharpened it yesterday when we were castrating that stud horse".


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## HermitJohn (May 10, 2002)

Oh got hold of a cheap used MAC original carving/chef knife. I had really been wanting to try one. Like most of those thin blade molybdenum knives it had been sharpened to where it wasnt original flat edge on it. Meaning painful to use on cutting board. Getting that perfectly flat edge on knife that originally came with factory flat edge, isnt easy so I usually give it a slight convex edge so the middle of blade edge is outward just tiniest bit. What you dont want is a concave edge, that makes it truly painful to use on cutting board since board is flat and that edge then wont cut completely through stuff no matter technique used. Once sharpened its quite a nice knife, better than the clones, least feels better in my hand than the clones I tried did. I still personally wouldnt give over $20 for one, but each to their own judgement. You have to get really lucky to find one under $20 that hasnt been seriously abused, and most go $30 and up used. The thin blade knives once properly sharpened, will fell sharper longer. I dont see it being whole lot better than the Tramontina Proline knife. Seriously hard to compete on value with that Tramontina Proline knife for $8 unless you get lucky at thrift store or flea market. You can get a better knife, but it will cost you lot more. Few are that much better in actual use. Many are lot prettier. My notion, pretty is as pretty does.


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