# SSN and Birth Cert...



## MissKitty (Mar 16, 2005)

For reasons I have friends that had all their children at home..using midwifes..did not register their births..Now 17 years later they are trying to figure out how to get birth cert. and SSN for the children...ranging in ages from 7 to 17....Children were born in different states and some of the mid wives can not be located..The kids cant get a job or drivers license,,,The advice the parents have received is to get a lawyer..just not enough money for that..They have been trying to deal with SSA for 2 years and still get denied...Tried contacting congressmans...etc...seems a closed door...Any idea what to do??..thanks!:help:


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## myheaven (Apr 14, 2006)

Find Amish and ask them.


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## Narshalla (Sep 11, 2008)

Did they not file tax returns for the last 17 years? Because you need SSN to claim a child on a tax return.


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## Sawmill Jim (Dec 5, 2008)

myheaven said:


> Find Amish and ask them.


How to join their clan .:cowboy: Amish don't do SS


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## mekasmom (Jan 19, 2010)

At this age, I am not sure. But usually if you give birth at home you go to the courthouse to get the birth certificate right away. I have no idea what to do if they have waited this long and even moved to different areas. 
A lawyer might be the best one to help them.


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## Forerunner (Mar 23, 2007)

They are free.

Freedom comes with no guarantees, but at what price, freedom ?

The BC and SSN are the foundational documents for creating a slave, "voluntarily".


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## unregistered29228 (Jan 9, 2008)

Maybe a sworn, witnessed statement from the midwives? Surely there is a way to verify the existence of children born at home...


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## Andy Nonymous (Aug 20, 2005)

To paraphrase most people's mothers "Just because everyone else is jumping off a cliff, would you?" 

In many cases you will be told you need a birth certificate/SS# to *get a job* (working for someone else), but you don't need one to *work and get paid* (self employment). I am told that legally (by case law), you may enter 000-00-0000 on a form if you don't have a #. That may have changed recently with all the whoop-la on the inbisible threats we all face - I don't have time to keep up with the whims of the polic-rats. 

Legally, you don't need a driver license to travel or work (for trade of goods, like real coin), but you do to participate in commerce (driving for hire, or for exchange of debt instruments, like checks, Fed Res notes, etc), but you'd be hard pressed to prove it because most judges aren't that well versed in the minutae of the laws themselves, and you'd have to do the research and educate them. There are places to get a driver license not state issued (some "cult" groups - as labeled by the state), but using one may be a lot of hassle if pulled over, and would require a firm belief and a solid (Christ like) witness.

All of this is based on your natural (inalienable) right to make and enjoin in contracts. The whole # mess is a set of complicated legal constructs that you volunteer into (like the military), in which you sign away your God given rights to get the 'benefits' of the contract offered (and they won't tell you there are options, like saying 'no'). Believe it or not, there is a growing number of those who are not getting numbered. Some say that having a # legally makes you (all your labor and income) surety (collateral) for your nation's debt. 

Your friends have some tough choices to make, and would be well to consider who they really wish to be bound under and serve - the King, or the kings of this world?


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## unregistered29228 (Jan 9, 2008)

I hate goverment intrusion as much as anyone, but not having any documents means they also can't ever leave the country(no passport), vote, open a bank account, or marry. That seems like a high price to pay for privacy.


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## myheaven (Apr 14, 2006)

Mom of Four you can have a bank account without documents the Amish do. 
The Amish during rumspringa get drivers licenses and work. I live in Amish country. I will have to ask my Amish neighbor. I believe they had to go to the county clerk ask to get an application as a teen 16- or older. Go in front of the judge. And get a verification of identity. I as for one wish we would have never " registered" our children.


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## Forerunner (Mar 23, 2007)

Mom_of_Four said:


> I hate goverment intrusion as much as anyone, but not having any documents means they also can't ever leave the country(no passport), vote, open a bank account, or marry. That seems like a high price to pay for privacy.




Privacy is not the real issue.

The real issue is participation in, and thereby consent to, the program that is destroying the country.

There are people who leave the country without passport, some with the full knowledge of the PTB and some on their own terms.

I've yet to figure out why anyone would want to vote in the elections of the corporation that was formed to supplant and annihilate the several free States.

There are ways to handle their monopoly money without surrendering your rights via your signature on a bank card.

As for "marrying", are they interested in STATE acknowledgment , and subsequent jurisdictional interferences, of their desires and intentions toward the significant other ? 
....or do they seek a union under the Blessing and Authority of the AllMighty ?


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## Ann-NWIowa (Sep 28, 2002)

Have they ever attended public school? Church baptism? Census? Life insurance? Health insurance? Medical treatment? Hospital admission? Family Bible? Belonged to 4-H or scouts? Get affidavits from any and all of the above including mom and dad.

I can somewhat understand not wanting to get a SS # but not birth certificate. Why would you want your child to be a non-person in the world. The world might not be what we want it to be but for now its our only choice so we need to do the best we can with what we have and that includes registering births.


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## DW (May 10, 2002)

Many yrs ago my aunt went to file for ss and discovered she did not have a birth cetificate. All the kids were born at home...the rest had them. Her father had suddenly died right after she was born and it must have been forgotten. She used a baptism record to get one.


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## Forerunner (Mar 23, 2007)

If you understood the origins of the BC and what it represents to those who hold them over at the Commerce Department, under Human Resources...... you might not be so quick to advocate.

FWIW, the phrase, "write off" means exactly that.

The IRS knows it.
The Commerce Department knows it.
The US military knows it.

I, for one, will not be writing off any of my offspring.......ever.

I don't care who thinks they own or rule the world.


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## dlskidmore (Apr 18, 2012)

A friend's brother was in this situation. He for a long time worked self-employed, but eventually came to need documentation for something. His congressman had to get involved and help him out.


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## unregistered29228 (Jan 9, 2008)

Forerunner said:


> Privacy is not the real issue.
> 
> The real issue is participation in, and thereby consent to, the program that is destroying the country.
> 
> ...


I understand what you're saying, and I do feel somewhat the same way. But I don't think it's right to doom our kids to a life of not being acknowledged. What if one of your kids wants to join the military, or is a genius and wants to work for MIT finding the cure for cancer. Or one of them has a terrible accident and needs disability. What if they want to travel through Europe or work on a ship that goes to foreign ports - they need a passport. It's hard to do much of anything without documents saying who you are.


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## Molly Mckee (Jul 8, 2006)

My niece's DH was born into an Amish family. He never joined the church so he was not shunned. Our niece didn't have much trouble getting all his paperwork but I do think she needed his families help. I'd call SS and ask them. There is a procedure for this.


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## PistolPackinMom (Oct 20, 2012)

Mom_of_Four said:


> I understand what you're saying, and I do feel somewhat the same way. But I don't think it's right to doom our kids to a life of not being acknowledged. What if one of your kids wants to join the military, or is a genius and wants to work for MIT finding the cure for cancer. Or one of them has a terrible accident and needs disability. What if they want to travel through Europe or work on a ship that goes to foreign ports - they need a passport. It's hard to do much of anything without documents saying who you are.


I think "doom" is a bit hyperbolic in regards to the situation. Interacting with the world is not impossible without documentation; it simply takes a different approach.

Also, who in life is not going to acknowledge human beings simply because they lack paperwork? A faceless entity like government? Bonus, IMO.

If my kids wanted to do any of the examples you suggested, I would hope their passions would not be hindered by mere obstacles such as paperwork, or lack thereof.
Just because something might be hard, does not make it impossible, or not worth pursuing.


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## GoldenCityMuse (Apr 15, 2009)

Honestly, I think the paperless children should be GLAD for their situation. It might be better to not attempt to change it.


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## NamasteMama (Jul 24, 2009)

No kidding. Why would they want to be on the radar?

If they want to work get them an Tax payer identification number, thats what the Amish do.


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## unregistered29228 (Jan 9, 2008)

Ok, I'll bow to the many who don't think it's a handicap to have kids without documentation.


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## Forerunner (Mar 23, 2007)

You'll thank us for it, later..... and so will they. :thumb:


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## bluefish (Jan 27, 2006)

And here I've been trying to figure out how to get the 2 that have papers off the books.


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## MissKitty (Mar 16, 2005)

Thanks for ya'lls answers and views on this subject and will show it to their parents...The Mom and Dad have filed taxes all these years but never used their children as deductions..Alot of these subjects I had never thought about either..
I have a friend that turned in his SSN..dont know how he did this,,but he is living in South America since the election...Thanks agains
Also..no the children are all home school..healthly..never been to a doctor..no shots..the eldest was baptized a few months back but our group does not keep accounts of this..Yes,,they have been in all type of activities but it was with other home school groups..No health or life insurance..


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## my3boys (Jan 18, 2011)

Sawmill Jim said:


> How to join their clan .:cowboy: Amish don't do SS


Yep. And plenty of them have "English" jobs!


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## CocalicoSprings (Mar 12, 2008)

This sounds weird. How long have you known them? I read once about a family of stolen children.......Does anything else seem bizarre about this family?


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## awhobert7 (Jun 1, 2002)

Their births recorded in a family Bible is all you need.


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## fireweed farm (Dec 31, 2010)

While a rare ocurrance there 'should' be a family relations verification process to keep long lost abducted children from gaining BC's with their abductee parents listed. DNA. Livestock get it, it's easy.


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## MissKitty (Mar 16, 2005)

No...they aren't bizarre at all...well no more than we are..lol...:hysterical:
The Dad is a retired EE and was in the Navy,,The Mom has always been a stay at home Mom until she had to go to work in a dept. store acouple of years back..We are a close knit group..not radicals by any means..We have known them about 4 years..No question that the children are theirs..They felt that there decision made years ago was to protect the children..Seems that SSA will not take Bible records as true birth cert.


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## edjewcollins (Jun 20, 2003)

Are you kidding? Anyone can vote in this country, even non-citizens! Just call your local Democrat Party office and they'll tell you how to do it! :hysterical:



Mom_of_Four said:


> I hate goverment intrusion as much as anyone, but not having any documents means they also can't ever leave the country(no passport), vote, open a bank account, or marry. That seems like a high price to pay for privacy.


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## 7thswan (Nov 18, 2008)

They can do it the Obama way. Go to Hi,sign a affidavit that they were born there,they will give a cirtification of live birth(not a birth certificate). Then go steal a dead persons SS number and use it. See, I learned how to survive in the new US of Amerika.


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## mekasmom (Jan 19, 2010)

CocalicoSprings said:


> This sounds weird. How long have you known them? I read once about a family of stolen children.......Does anything else seem bizarre about this family?


It's not that unusual of a situation. Many people have home births. They had midwives, so it was actually a lot more "official" then if the husband and wife have the child at home by themselves. I know a few homeschoolers who have done this. It's not weird, and fairly common within the fundamentalist circles.


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## unioncreek (Jun 18, 2002)

That's something they should have dealt with when the kids were you. Now it's going to cost them some money. Currently you can't get a drivers license without a SS # and that's a fact. Is you can their circomventing the law somehow and I wouldn't want to get caught. Have the kids ever been baptized in church? If they have that would be their way to get a SS #. For those that think their better off without the government being involved in their lives not getting a birth certificate and SS# is a wise idea.

Bobg


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## grandma12703 (Jan 13, 2011)

myheaven said:


> Mom of Four you can have a bank account without documents the Amish do.
> The Amish during rumspringa get drivers licenses and work. I live in Amish country. I will have to ask my Amish neighbor. I believe they had to go to the county clerk ask to get an application as a teen 16- or older. Go in front of the judge. And get a verification of identity. I as for one wish we would have never " registered" our children.


I watched a special one time that said exactly this. They need to see how it is done by asking an Amish person.


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## grandma12703 (Jan 13, 2011)

unioncreek said:


> That's something they should have dealt with when the kids were you. Now it's going to cost them some money. Currently you can't get a drivers license without a SS # and that's a fact. Is you can their circomventing the law somehow and I wouldn't want to get caught. Have the kids ever been baptized in church? If they have that would be their way to get a SS #. For those that think their better off without the government being involved in their lives not getting a birth certificate and SS# is a wise idea.
> 
> Bobg


 
I also remember when we were baptized as a family many years ago the minister told us the baptism certificate would work as well as a birth certificate. Not sure because we have never tried it but might be worth checking into.


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## simi-steading (Sep 27, 2012)

Seems Unkle turns a blind eye when an Illegal "borrows" someone else's numbers.. Just offering a simple option...


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## unioncreek (Jun 18, 2002)

The main thing I would be concerned about is with no birth certificate they are essentially not a US resident and thus could be deported. To where your guess is as good as mine. The current administration probably wouldn't do anything about it, but there's always those individuals that would. And it could become a major problem to take care of.

Bobg


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## unioncreek (Jun 18, 2002)

myheaven said:


> Mom of Four you can have a bank account without documents the Amish do.


Yes, but the Amish are exempt from having them. You would have to be in an exempt group to get by that.

Bobg


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## Ann-NWIowa (Sep 28, 2002)

I believe that as of January, 2008 the Social Security Administration will only accept a certified birth certificate. I had to get a certified copy in order to apply for Medicare. The certificate that I've used my entire life would not work for SS.


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## Forerunner (Mar 23, 2007)

They are actively getting the fence riders to choose a side and stick with it.

I love it.


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## terri9630 (Mar 12, 2012)

unioncreek said:


> That's something they should have dealt with when the kids were you. Now it's going to cost them some money. Currently you can't get a drivers license without a SS # and that's a fact. Is you can their circomventing the law somehow and I wouldn't want to get caught. Have the kids ever been baptized in church? If they have that would be their way to get a SS #. For those that think their better off without the government being involved in their lives not getting a birth certificate and SS# is a wise idea.
> 
> Bobg


In NM you can get a DL with 2 proofs of residence. Nothing else needed. The Gov has been trying to change it because of fraud. Here soon we are going to have to use passports as proof of identity for flying and such because of the lax DL requirements.


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## Mattemma (Jan 1, 2013)

I had both my kids at home.First one I filed on my own when she was 18 months.Second I filed at birtn.After a few years after birth ohio laws would require a lawyer.All depends on state laws.


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## Shrarvrs88 (May 8, 2010)

This is something I am trying to decide now, as I am expecting a little one here anytime....I do know the rules to getting this stuff are different in every state...


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## MissKitty (Mar 16, 2005)

They (the school) allowed the young woman to enter a youth camp for Mission work in Texas without a SSN...but she can not go out of the USA because of no passport..
So does this mean that some places except she exists and she does not in other situations?


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## solidwoods (Dec 23, 2005)

OK OK! I can't take it any more! Misskitty: Is one of those kids out President? jim


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## MissKitty (Mar 16, 2005)

Thank God!...NO!...Don't mean to offend anyone!


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## jadedhkr (Oct 25, 2004)

It is not that hard to get by without that number, my daughter didn't have one for the first 6 years of her life. When asked, I just said she didn't have one. No one ever made a big deal out of it, not the bank, the hospitals, the school, no one. I sometimes wish I'd just left it alone.


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## seedspreader (Oct 18, 2004)

Andy Nonymous said:


> To paraphrase most people's mothers "Just because everyone else is jumping off a cliff, would you?"
> 
> In many cases you will be told you need a birth certificate/SS# to *get a job* (working for someone else), but you don't need one to *work and get paid* (self employment). I am told that legally (by case law), you may enter 000-00-0000 on a form if you don't have a #. That may have changed recently with all the whoop-la on the inbisible threats we all face - I don't have time to keep up with the whims of the polic-rats.
> 
> ...


Andy! Good to see you friend!


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