# Bees for northern states?



## Maxpowers (Apr 4, 2012)

I'm looking at getting my first bee packages this year. In Michigan I see a lot of people selling Italians but I'm wondering if the Carniolans are a better choice. I see a lot of stuff saying they winter better.


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## TxGypsy (Nov 23, 2006)

I was discussing this with a Michigan beekeeper yesterday. I'm not sure if the breed matters as much as being acclimated does. When you order packages from the south you are getting bees that are acclimated to hot summers and mild winters. Bees that have survived the winter there in Michigan will likely be a better choice. As to carniolans surviving the winter better, I'm not sure, but I'm about to find out. I've got 40 nucs of them scheduled to arrive in April.


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## homemaid (Apr 26, 2011)

We are new to beekeeping also in Michigan. I agree if you can find Michigan wintered bees you are better off. We have some Michigan bee, Carni, and Italian ordered for spring. We thought we would compare the different colonies to see how they hold up.


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## k9 (Feb 6, 2008)

homemaid, roughly what part of Mich. are you in, and where do you get your bees?


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## homemaid (Apr 26, 2011)

I am in the Thumb.. I ordered bees from a couple different clubs I joined which will bee Northern California bees. then we ordered 3- Nuc boxes from a lady we met at Dadant. She is on the other side of Lansing. Do you belong to any bee clubs? I can give you Lisa's info if you send me a p.m. and you can see if she has any more. 




k9 said:


> homemaid, roughly what part of Mich. are you in, and where do you get your bees?


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## homemaid (Apr 26, 2011)

Hope you get some bees I hope Lisa can help you out if not there are others selling bees also I can give you some more contact info if you need it..


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## HTWannabee (Jan 19, 2007)

We requeened a split early last summer with a carni queen and they are doing well this winter. We lost a hive with an Italian queen early this winter - colony collapse. Plenty of honey stores but an empty hive. 
Italians seem to do fairly well here in New England but there is a lot of interest here in trying to raise northern queens because there are so many losses the last few years. If you can get Carniolans I would give it a try. The Italians just seem to be the easiest to find. Just our.02!


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## alleyyooper (Apr 22, 2005)

We started with Italian's for the first two years. winter losses were in the 40% range. We bought a whole bee yard full of hybred Carniolans from a retiring bee keeper at the start of our third year. Their winter survail rate was more than 90%. About our fifth year I started raising our own queens from those Carniolans. 
Used to be a fellow near Grand Rapids Michigan that sold Michigan Nucs. He gave a talk once at Michigan States ANR week a few years back. Since I had been raising our own queens I didn't have a interest and don't have contact information.

http://sembabees.org/toplevelpages/bargain.html

Contact Don Shram off the above link for michigan 5 frame nucs.

 Al


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## k9 (Feb 6, 2008)

Al, I thought you were going to start selling Nucs?


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## homemaid (Apr 26, 2011)

Don Shram would have been the next contact info I would give you. Im not sure if he leaves his bees in Michigan for the winters or not.


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## ET1 SS (Oct 22, 2005)

Nearly all of our local suppliers get their nucs from down South


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## alleyyooper (Apr 22, 2005)

I am selling nucs but was all sold out by Nov 2013, benefit of belong to several clubs. Don Shram if I remember correctly keeps his bees in the thumb. He how ever lives west of Pontiac some place IE the 248 area code.

 Al


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## homemaid (Apr 26, 2011)

Al do you go to the club in Goodells?


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## alleyyooper (Apr 22, 2005)

No w belong to SEMBA and got to the three umbrella clubs. Pontiac, Lapeer and school craft college. Every once in a great while Davison.

Good information here including the ANR week at MSU March 8th. SEMBA bee conference March 15th

http://sembabees.org/toplevelpages/education.html


 Al


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## homemaid (Apr 26, 2011)

We are going to The Semba Conference on the 15th and the ANR one on the 8th. We go to 3 clubs Saginaw, Ottisville, and Goodells.


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## Maxpowers (Apr 4, 2012)

I just mailed my order form out to Don for 2 nucs. It said all that was left was the deep frame, this should work out just fine for me since I'm starting out with empty deep frame boxes right?


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## alleyyooper (Apr 22, 2005)

Yup deep frame nucs for deep frame hive bodies.

 Al


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## homstdr74 (Jul 4, 2011)

When we were keeping bees we had Italians. We've never had Carniolans, but I have read that they are much more temperamental than Italians. We never had any trouble with the Italian bees, after we would smoke 'em we could do anything and they'd never bother us, so even tho' I had thought of getting some Carniolans, after I read about them being so crabby I decided against them.


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## alleyyooper (Apr 22, 2005)

Carnolions are not any more crabby than Italians. We rarely smoke our bees, pop the intercover and give them a light mist of syrup and they are to busy to bother you. In mid summer I many times don't even bother misting them.
When you get a cranky colony you just hunt the queen down and get rid of her and install a queen that produces happy go lucky workers.

 Al


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## tom j (Apr 3, 2009)

I started with Italians ,, then tryed carnolions ,,from now on carnolions are my bee ,, to me they are not cranky and winter a lot better ,,,, but thats just me


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## Lupine (Oct 2, 2013)

I'm a huge fan of the Carniolans (Carnis). Most package bees come from California, or from bees that have overwintered in southern states. You can always requeen with Carniolan queens.

Getting nucleus colonies (nucs) from regional beekeepers is always the best option. You may also be able to get splits that will raise their own queens, pending good weather, but do not rely soley upon this method if you intend to have a strong start for your apiary.


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## alleyyooper (Apr 22, 2005)

Tom didn't you at one time also have some of those Sue Colby Minnesota hygienic bees?

 Al


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## GeoCitizen (Feb 24, 2014)

I live in northern Ohio. I have Italian bees and they've made it through the last few winters. All bees cluster to stay warm, so that survival mechanism is inherent in all. My understanding is its the other characteristics that make a difference. Italian bees consume more food resources throughout the winter where other strains start to curtail their consumption when it gets cold. The Italian's are also a bit slower to recognize the change in season. Both weaknesses can be overcome by an attentive beekeeper. On the plus side, I believe they produce the most honey...but don't quote me on that.

The Russians are suppose to be the best for winter, but the trade-off is they are a bit more aggressive which may not be good in a suburban area. They also produce lots of propolis. Its either the Russians or the Carnolians that get the fast start foraging in the spring. Carnolians are next. They have trade-offs too, but I don't remember.


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