# My turn on the soapbox!



## Miss Kay (Mar 31, 2012)

I can’t help myself, I have to vent. We ran into an old friend this weekend and we were commenting on his new grand baby. After the usual, “he’s cute”, etc. he ended up saying the daddy wants to marry the mom (this man’s daughter) but they can’t afford it or otherwise she lose her government benefits. That means the parents are not financially supporting the child, I am, and you are, and every other tax paying worker. This is coming from a diehard Trump supporting, evangelical family who apparently hate gays (based on their facebook comments and bible verse postings), and brown people (again, based on their facebook comments and meme’s!). Really, how hypocritical can one get! 


What really burns my buns is that the majority of the kids in this county are doing the same. Our local school has 75% free lunch rate. That tells me that most likely at least 75% of them are living off the government. I did not have these children, I was not asked to assist with the financing of these children, and yet here we are, sucking off the government teat in the reddest county I’ve ever lived in. Geese, stay out of my pockets and keep your pants zipped if you can’t pay for it.


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## Lisa in WA (Oct 11, 2004)

I saw this same thing in Idaho. It’s frustrating.


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## mreynolds (Jan 1, 2015)

I understand what you are saying but welfare has become something that the government seems to want to keep you on. Once you get on its hard to get off.

When I worked in housing I heard these stories about when you get a dollar raise they take 2 dollars worth of benefits away making your income 160 dollars Month less. It's like they punish you for trying to do good.

No one wants a raise anymore because why bother?

As far as the other, I totally agree that we have way too many on the dole.


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

Build it and they will come

I do not blame the takers, I blame the G enablers.


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## wdcutrsdaughter (Dec 9, 2012)

I hear your frustration Miss Kay. Lot of enabling in the system.


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## Wolf mom (Mar 8, 2005)

Yup - it is enabling. As I've said before, tough love is tough - on everyone. 

Giving without understanding that you are taking away initiative, cripples people. Sure, it's be tough for a while, but people would be stronger in the long run.

People talk about a person's rights....the homeless pooping and peeing on the sidewalk...but what about the rights of the person that has to walk in the gutter?? We don't need tiny homes, we need laws already on the books like No Loitering to be enforced. We don't need to take over parental rights - we need to educate kids in school - and not the PC way.

Got a good book for ya all to read about this: the country has split into Red and Blue. It goes into the ramifications (parts are really funny) of right vs left. It's during a war...
*Collapse * by Kurt Schlichter. It's 4th in a series, but reads as a stand alone book.


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## GTX63 (Dec 13, 2016)

Ask yourself (rhetorically), why would you want others to be dependent upon you?


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## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

I understand completely, but (there's always a but, huh) how many Planned Parenthood/free clinics are in your state? With so many being shut down there are fewer places to get free effective birth control. Less free effective birth control, more unplanned pregnancies, more people on government programs. 

Off my soapbox now.


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

Irish Pixie said:


> Less *free* effective birth control


Nothing is "free".
That's just more welfare handouts.
I bet the people in the OP have smart phones, TV's and high speed internet.

If she's already getting welfare, she could have been getting birth control at "no cost" too.


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## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

Bearfootfarm said:


> *Nothing *is "free".
> *That's just more welfare handouts*.
> I bet the people in the OP have smart phones, TV's and high speed internet.


This is pretty simple, I know I'd rather pay for effective birth control than government programs. And my post was patently obvious it was free for the user, and since PP no longer accepts Title X funding federal taxpayers no longer contribute to PP programs.

I'm not arguing semantics/opinion/BS with you. Have a wonderful evening.


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## SLADE (Feb 20, 2004)

one evening When my children were young we were having beans and hot dogs for diner. I think I just paid the bills and was a little tight. It was always a short term thing as customers payed my bill at the end of the job.
I like hot dogs and beans. a few people I talked to that day were having shrimp and my children mentioned they heard other kids saying they were having shrimp.
I knew these families and they all got food stamps and shrimp was on sale.
Did I feel frustrated? Yes.
I thought about it and I wouldn't trade places with any of them as their lives compared to mine sucked.
I felt if a little shrimp made their lives better for one meal I had no complaints.
I'm not a happy tax payer but I always paid. I started my own business when I was 18 and never got a return.
I don't begrudge my fellow man woman or child but it can be dam frustrating.


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## AmericanStand (Jul 29, 2014)

Wolf mom said:


> Yup - it is enabling. As I've said before, tough love is tough - on everyone.
> 
> Giving without understanding that you are taking away initiative, cripples people. Sure, it's be tough for a while, but people would be stronger in the long run.
> 
> ...


 I don’t believe that the homeless should have the right to poop on a travel way unless there simply is no place else to boot. On the other hand I believe man has a God-given right to loiter and that should never be taken away


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## AmericanStand (Jul 29, 2014)

Lol
Oops not at all what I came here to say !
What I came here to point out is it seems like there are lots of people who get lots of benefits from the government that they would never petition the government for but once they find out they’re entitled to it They don’t wanna pass it up while some other less deserving person gets it.


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

Irish Pixie said:


> I know I'd rather pay for effective birth control than government programs.


You (we) are already paying for both.
It's not always either/or.



Irish Pixie said:


> *PP* no longer accepts Title X funding federal taxpayers no longer contribute to *PP* programs.


I never mentioned PP.
No one but you has.



Irish Pixie said:


> *I'm not arguing* semantics/opinion/BS with you.


You say that a lot.


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

Irish Pixie said:


> I understand completely, but (there's always a but, huh) how many Planned Parenthood/free clinics are in your state? With so many being shut down there are fewer places to get free effective birth control. Less free effective birth control, more unplanned pregnancies, more people on government programs.
> 
> Off my soapbox now.


There is one Planned Parenthood in Arkansas, the same numbers as pediatric heart centers, and pediatric level 1 trauma centers.

Most want to go out of town for an abortion with the anonymity of a larger city to hide their shame.


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## SLADE (Feb 20, 2004)

The one thing thats needed


Irish Pixie said:


> I understand completely, but (there's always a but, huh) how many Planned Parenthood/free clinics are in your state? With so many being shut down there are fewer places to get free effective birth control. Less free effective birth control, more unplanned pregnancies, more people on government programs.
> 
> Off my soapbox now.


Well said.
There should also be a few clinics for some fellows to get a knot tied in their divine rod.


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## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

HDRider said:


> There is one Planned Parenthood in Arkansas, the same numbers as pediatric heart centers, and pediatric level 1 trauma centers.
> 
> Most want to go out of town for an abortion with the anonymity of a larger city to hide their shame.


I’m not arguing abortion, I never even implied it. I referenced effective birth control, the largest PP program. No access to free effective birth control equals more pregnancies and more people on government programs.


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## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

SRSLADE said:


> The one thing thats needed
> 
> Well said.
> There should also be a few clinics for some fellows to get a knot tied in their divine rod.


I totally agree. Excellent point.


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## MoonRiver (Sep 2, 2007)

Is the guy working? Is he paying child support? I'm sure child services would be interested.


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## hiddensprings (Aug 6, 2009)

The system really is set up to encourage young women having children without a father involved. I use to sit on a board of a non-profit that worked with kids at risk of not graduating high school. For many of these kids, they were at risk because they would be the first person in their family to actually graduate. One of the things that we did towards the end of the program was an informational meeting for the kids. One very impressive young lady asked the housing person how she could apply for government housing (she was in a bad home situation and had been accepted at a college and needed to move out of the bad environment). The housing lady told her to "have a baby" because then she would qualify!!!!! Unbelievable. I thought I heard her wrong so I ask the housing lady after the program and she said "that's how it works".


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

Irish Pixie said:


> I’m not arguing abortion, I never even implied it. I referenced effective birth control, the largest PP program. No access to free effective birth control equals more pregnancies and more people on government programs.


You can get free birth control at any local clinic


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

hiddensprings said:


> The system really is set up to encourage young women having children without a father involved. I use to sit on a board of a non-profit that worked with kids at risk of not graduating high school. For many of these kids, they were at risk because they would be the first person in their family to actually graduate. One of the things that we did towards the end of the program was an informational meeting for the kids. One very impressive young lady asked the housing person how she could apply for government housing (she was in a bad home situation and had been accepted at a college and needed to move out of the bad environment). The housing lady told her to "have a baby" because then she would qualify!!!!! Unbelievable. I thought I heard her wrong so I ask the housing lady after the program and she said "that's how it works".


The government has absolutely tilted the table to foster unwed mothers, and fatherless homes.


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## Hiro (Feb 14, 2016)

Road to serfdom.


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

Irish Pixie said:


> *No access* to free effective birth control equals more pregnancies and more people on government programs.


"Govt programs" hand out "free" birth control to those on Medicaid.

It's usually done through county health departments as well as most other Dr's and OB/GYN offices that take Medicare patients.

It's false to claim there is "no access" unless there is a PP facility available.


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

SRSLADE said:


> There should also be a few clinics for some fellows to get a knot tied in their divine rod.


Many Dr's can perform that procedure. 
There's no need for specialized clinics.


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## alleyyooper (Apr 22, 2005)

And every one is fine with the billions of dollars this country doles out to the leaders of other countrys.

Then in the case of Pakastan we had to pay a huge fee to truck supplys across their country to our troops in afaganastan too.

At least my American tax dollars are going to americans 


. Al


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## SLADE (Feb 20, 2004)

Bearfootfarm said:


> "Govt programs" hand out "free" birth control to those on Medicaid.
> 
> It's usually done through county health departments as well as most other Dr's and OB/GYN offices that take Medicare patients.
> 
> It's false to claim there is "no access" unless there is a PP facility available.


Would you like to do away with free access?


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## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

HDRider said:


> You can get free birth control at any local clinic


Which is why I specially included free clinics in my original post. And some free clinics provide medical treatments of other types as well. 

The bottom line is limiting access to free birth control will result in more pregnancies and more people on government programs.


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## GTX63 (Dec 13, 2016)

Miss Kay said:


> What really burns my buns is that the majority of the kids in this county are doing the same. Our local school has 75% free lunch rate. That tells me that most likely at least 75% of them are living off the government. I did not have these children, I was not asked to assist with the financing of these children, and yet here we are, sucking off the government teat in the reddest county I’ve ever lived in. Geese, stay out of my pockets and keep your pants zipped if you can’t pay for it.


Miss Kay, your post highlights the process of government dependency. Start them young and ingrain into them a level of expectation. Now these children can someday pass the entitlement mentality along.
It is shameful that there are groups who think so little of those beneath them that they won't allow them to walk freehanded.
They teach them to align with their ideology thru bribes, albeit, with your money.


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## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

SRSLADE said:


> Well said.
> There should also be a few clinics for some fellows to get a knot tied in their divine rod.


Urologists are the only Doctors qualified to do vasectomies. From what I can gather, they are covered by Medicaid in most states tho.


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## GTX63 (Dec 13, 2016)

Miss Kay said:


> Our local school has 75% free lunch rate. That tells me that most likely at least 75% of them are living off the government. I did not have these children, I was not asked to assist with the financing of these children, and yet here we are, sucking off the government teat in the reddest county I’ve ever lived in. Geese, stay out of my pockets and keep your pants zipped if you can’t pay for it.


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## doozie (May 21, 2005)

Benefits aside, I look at the original post and chuckled, the loss of benefits is just another excuse not to get married, one of the two, or quite possibly both might not really want to tie the knot for good reason.

Free lunch programs are for working families as well, if the children qualify they eat for free, or for a reduced price. Many jobs where I live are seasonal, income fluctuates. I'd rather have fed students than hungry ones.

https://dpi.wi.gov/sites/default/fi...on/pdf/income-eligibility-guidelines-1920.pdf


In Chicago every single child can eat breakfast and lunch free, in the summer as well.

https://cps.edu/About_CPS/Departments/Pages/MealRates.aspx


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## GTX63 (Dec 13, 2016)

It isn't free.


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## doozie (May 21, 2005)

GTX63 said:


> It isn't free.


I'm still being taxed either way...programs in place or not, so no, it's not "free" 
I have no kids in the system, I don't benefit directly, but I still don't have a problem with any kid eating on my dime.


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## GTX63 (Dec 13, 2016)

Do you have a problem with it being on Miss Kay's dime?


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## GTX63 (Dec 13, 2016)

just a few thoughts-
The OP referred to a gentleman who was described as someone who was most certainly not a poster child for liberalism, yet he was openly discussing the merits of getting free stuff.
Would a compassionate person call him a hypocrite?
If you lived in an area of heavy drug use and dealers, and while you despise heroin and crack, you are lead you into addiction, would you be a phony? A fool? Could you be the victim of a system?


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## doozie (May 21, 2005)

GTX63 said:


> Do you have a problem with it being on Miss Kay's dime?


I guess you'd have to ask her where she would rather have her dime put to good use. 

They've already taken mine and used it for things I agree with, and likewise don't.


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## GTX63 (Dec 13, 2016)

The OP can correct me if I am wrong, I believe I read her post to state that she is ticked because she doesn't have a say if when or where it is put to use. Her money is going where she doesn't want it and it is being abused, whether she has kids that may benefit from it or not.


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## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

My tax money goes where I don't want it to. That is the way it works. What I think will benefit this country might not be what you think benefits it.


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## GTX63 (Dec 13, 2016)

That about sums up her point.


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

SRSLADE said:


> Would you like to do away with free access?


Not for those who truly need it.
The problem now is many have made welfare a lifestyle, and the Govt has made it too easy.
But that is a different topic from what I said.


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## CKelly78z (Jul 16, 2017)

We found the subsidized school lunch programs in our area also, when good friend's of ours let it slip that she had her boys on it. We had no idea it was so widespread, and that we were one of the 25% that paid cash every week for school lunches (even though we made the same wages, and had less new stuff than these same friends).

Don't get me started about "free" NARCAN/Nalaxone for drug addicts !


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## Alice In TX/MO (May 10, 2002)

Oh. Dear. Here’s fair warning. I was a debate coach. 

If your niece overdoses, do you want the first responders to administer Narcan? 

How would the first responders differentiate between addicts and non-addicts?


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

Alice In TX/MO said:


> If your niece overdoses, do you want the first responders to administer Narcan?
> 
> How would the first responders differentiate between addicts and non-addicts?


Everyone gets the NarCan.
Not everyone gets a bill afterwards.
It's the same with the ambulance ride.


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## Miss Kay (Mar 31, 2012)

Oh yes, there are many ways they misuse my tax dollars but that’s another subject for another day. As for this thread, it’s the hypocrisy that I hate the most. You can’t get two good old boys around here together without hearing them complain about the “heathen socialist liberals” ruining their country. Most of the red hat “conservatives” here don’t have two dimes to rub together and if it wasn’t for uncle Sam they’d be in a world of hurt. I know these guys and their families so I know the government is supporting their illegitimate kids/ grandkids. When someone’s words and actions don’t line up, I always believe their actions and know that I am listening to a liar. He’s either lying to me or worse, lying to himself which is why I don’t see either party doing anything about this issue. If they did they’d be voted out of office.


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## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

I don't find it surprising at all. Our current budget deficit caused by those good ole boys is all the proof I need of hypocrisy.


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## SLADE (Feb 20, 2004)

Good ole boys?


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## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

Oops.


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## 54metalman (Jul 12, 2011)

I am not sure why we feel the need to point fingers at a persons possible political views when talking about things. I am not sure why if I dont agree with your views then I must be a Trump lover or toothless red hat living off the gov. I am a "good ole boy" and lean hard to the conservative side of things. I bust my butt and work hard. When I had my business going (40 yrs) I worked 18-20 hrs a day 7 days a wk for over 27 yrs. I believe the gov wants its people to be dependant on them. THey are easier to control that way. Just like livestock. You control the food and housing they behave because it s the only way they get fed. I know way too many that like the "free" stuff from the gov. Phones, health care, housing, food, welfare, ect ect. We as a society have gotten so far away from being self supportive and self reliant its not funny. We have forgotten when credit was looked at as a bad thing. The gov has grown to the point that we think we work for them when it should be the otherway around. Taxes are out of control. I am not sure how we can turn things around if we can at all!! Years and years of conditioning have caused everyone to think the hand outs are good when in reality they are just the oppisite 

At some point everyone of us may need a hand up, not a hand out!!


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

Miss Kay said:


> When someone’s words and actions don’t line up, *I always believe their actions and know that I am listening to a liar.* *He’s either lying to me or worse, lying to himself* which is why I don’t see either party doing anything about this issue.


There are many who do both those things daily.

The words reveal the actions, because they get confused trying to remember which lies they've told.

Patterns never change.


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## Redlands Okie (Nov 28, 2017)

Why free meals at school. Food and assistance is available to parents. Food can be prepared at home and served at home or brought to school. If the parents cannot provide the effort to do so then they need to be held accountable. Absolutely no need for children to go hungry. The problem here is who will make the effort to feed them and who will be held responsible for doing so. 

Going to get a bit more radical. As far as the narcan mentioned above. A lot of the repeated drug use can be easily stopped by NOT enabling REPEATED LONG TERM USE. Yes its cold hearted. 

Lots of the social problems we have are created and allowed to CONTINUE LONG TERM is because of long term feel good actions that do not solve the problems.


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## AmericanStand (Jul 29, 2014)

Food at school increases attendance and moral. 

Lunch was by far my favorite subject

and considering that most schools operate On a stupid schedule they need everything they can to get a kid there


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

Redlands Okie said:


> Why free meals at school.


Because that's where the kids are supposed to be during the day.



Redlands Okie said:


> If the parents cannot provide the effort to do so then they need to be held accountable.


If they were "accountable" we wouldn't have to feed their kids.


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## AmericanStand (Jul 29, 2014)

Lots of organizations that are accountable use free food to attract attendance. 
Everything from free hotdogs at Bowers and gas stations to potluck at church and tenderloins at the grocery store. 
It seems to be a pretty traditional American way


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## Farmerga (May 6, 2010)

My county health department offers "free", or, reduced cost BC. All of the surrounding counties HD's do the same. So, the baby killing factories are not necessary for access to "free" BC.


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## Farmerga (May 6, 2010)

hiddensprings said:


> The system really is set up to encourage young women having children without a father involved. I use to sit on a board of a non-profit that worked with kids at risk of not graduating high school. For many of these kids, they were at risk because they would be the first person in their family to actually graduate. One of the things that we did towards the end of the program was an informational meeting for the kids. One very impressive young lady asked the housing person how she could apply for government housing (she was in a bad home situation and had been accepted at a college and needed to move out of the bad environment). The housing lady told her to "have a baby" because then she would qualify!!!!! Unbelievable. I thought I heard her wrong so I ask the housing lady after the program and she said "that's how it works".


Isn't it disgusting how government "works"? We must fight against the Master/Slave dichotomy we have allowed to grow and metastasize in our government.


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## GTX63 (Dec 13, 2016)

Redlands Okie said:


> Going to get a bit more radical. As far as the narcan mentioned above. A lot of the repeated drug use can be easily stopped by NOT enabling REPEATED LONG TERM USE. Yes its cold hearted.
> 
> Lots of the social problems we have are created and allowed to CONTINUE LONG TERM is because of long term feel good actions that do not solve the problems.


There it is. You state the refusal to quit enabling is "cold hearted" but it isn't. It is just the label given to those who want to help without feeling good while they are doing it.
To many, compassion isn't present unless you let everyone know first.


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## GTX63 (Dec 13, 2016)

Farmerga said:


> My county health department offers "free", or, reduced cost BC. All of the surrounding counties HD's do the same. So, the baby killing factories are not necessary for access to "free" BC.


Nope. Baby killing one stop shops are not needed. Ironically, the government tends to shun partnering with faith based charities because well, they might influence the needy. Yet, putting BC in the murder mills is just considered convenient you see. Nothing more.


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## Alder (Aug 18, 2014)

The big thing I see missing is self-respect. These folks have no pride in taking care of themselves and their own. At the end of a tight month I'd MUCH rather feed pancakes for supper that I provide with money this family earned, than serve steak and potatoes paid for by taxpayer welfare. Was raised that way...and lemme tell you...it sticks.

Where did the disconnect happen? Generational welfare has been growing since the 60's. The culture of personal responsibility fades every time a kid is raised "in the system".


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## Oxankle (Jun 20, 2003)

yes; there are shack jobs all over this country because if the father does not marry the mother she can collect welfare and the father still has his "privileges". A rotten system populated by rotten people.

The rules need changing.


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## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

And in 1940, my grandfather left my grandmother with three kids, my mother (the youngest) was eight. Walked away completely, no support, no nothing. My grandmother worked three jobs, and my uncle (the oldest) worked as well to put food on the table. At one point, my aunt was "farmed" out to relatives for a year because it would be one less mouth to feed.

That left a lasting impression on the entire family, all of them were food conscious the rest of their lives.

There needs to be a safety net.

ETA: Because my grandfather divorced my grandmother, the catholic church turned her away for help as well.


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## wr (Aug 10, 2003)

My grandparent's neighbor died and left his wife with 6 kids and very little money as well. She also worked very hard to make sure there was food on the table (boarders, odd jobs, cake decorating and sewing) and my grandfather made sure the kids had a strong male figure in their lives and covered the cost of 9 young people's educations. The local butcher made sure the kids had food and she had a huge garden that all 9 kids helped with. 

To this day, the best industrial electrician and finish carpenter come out of those 6 and both are well into their 80's and simply don't know how to retire and even my generation gets the family discount. 

I actually worked three jobs to make sure my kids were fed when their father checked out and kinda laughed when a previous poster mentioned pancakes because my kids had them for supper once in a while too because I came up short before payday. The only negative I've noticed is my kids are food conscious but they are work conscious and have a tendency to go work when others likely wouldn't.


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

I have yet to hear an inspiring story based on welfare


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## Alice In TX/MO (May 10, 2002)

https://www.blackenterprise.com/black-entrepreneur-section-8-housing-owning-multiple-homes/


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## doozie (May 21, 2005)

HDRider said:


> I have yet to hear an inspiring story based on welfare


One only has to look

https://www.theatlantic.com/notes/2016/08/i-am-the-product-of-afdc/497192/

From the story

So when someone starts railing against “people on welfare,” I proudly say: I’m one of them. I grew up on it, I graduated valedictorian of my high school class, I’ve held a job since I was 15, and I went to college and earned my bachelor’s and my master’s. I’ve been married for over 28 years and have four daughters myself and have worked for the federal government for over 12 years. Welfare worked.


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## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

There are thousands (millions?) of stories about people receiving some type of government aid and going on to have successful lives.


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## AmericanStand (Jul 29, 2014)

Alder said:


> The big thing I see missing is self-respect. These folks have no pride in taking care of themselves and their own. At the end of a tight month I'd MUCH rather feed pancakes for supper that I provide with money this family earned, than serve steak and potatoes paid for by taxpayer welfare. Was raised that way...and lemme tell you...it sticks.
> 
> Where did the disconnect happen? Generational welfare has been growing since the 60's. The culture of personal responsibility fades every time a kid is raised "in the system".


You Use taxpayer provided roads and parks right? Do you feel bad about that? Food stamps and welfare are just the same thing in a different form.


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## NChemungGuy (Sep 5, 2004)

Come to New York for a while. It'll make you feel oh so much better about where you live.


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## AmericanStand (Jul 29, 2014)

Oxankle said:


> yes; there are shack jobs all over this country because if the father does not marry the mother she can collect welfare and the father still has his "privileges". A rotten system populated by rotten people.
> 
> The rules need changing.


 I think the rules may have changed without you knowing about it.
There is no requirement for a woman to be single to get food stamps welfare Or have a medical card.
In fact since these things are based on the number of people in the household they will get more of them if there are more people in the household in fact they don’t even have to be married just living together will work


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## altair (Jul 23, 2011)

I'm still kind of wishing we had "poor farms" like they did back in the day before the Welfare program was a thing. Governmental units owned the farms and employed those who needed the jobs and milk, eggs, meat, etc.


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## Alder (Aug 18, 2014)

AmericanStand said:


> You Use taxpayer provided roads and parks right? Do you feel bad about that? Food stamps and welfare are just the same thing in a different form.


Hahaha! Bit of a leap of logic...or a complete disregard thereof?

I PAY for roads and parks which I then use. 
I PAY for food stamps and welfare which goes to somebody else, not me.


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

doozie said:


> From the story
> 
> So when someone starts railing against “people on welfare,” I proudly say: I’m one of them. I grew up on it, I graduated valedictorian of my high school class, I’ve held a job since I was 15, and I went to college and earned my bachelor’s and my master’s.


So they really weren't the ones on welfare.
Their parent/parents were.


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## AmericanStand (Jul 29, 2014)

Alder said:


> Hahaha! Bit of a leap of logic...or a complete disregard thereof?
> 
> I PAY for roads and parks which I then use.
> I PAY for food stamps and welfare which goes to somebody else, not me.


 Lol but they pay for roads and parks that YOU use!

Remember as a red green says we’re all in this together


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## doozie (May 21, 2005)

Bearfootfarm said:


> So they really weren't the ones on welfare.
> Their parent/parents were.


If you'd rather hear a story of a single parent on welfare that managed to get off and make something of themselves I can bear witness to someone I personally know that did just that, and for the record, the whole family received benefits, so the children were "on" welfare. Really...


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## AmericanStand (Jul 29, 2014)

Don’t they actually pay the benefits to the parents on behalf of the children?


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

doozie said:


> If you'd rather hear a story of a single parent on welfare that managed to get off and make something of themselves *I can bear witness to someone I personally know* that did just that, and for the record, the whole family received benefits, so the children were "on" welfare. Really...


Anecdotal evidence isn't worth much, and changes very little in regards to the big picture.
I always expect you to take the opposite side in most discussions, and you always meet my expectations.


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## doozie (May 21, 2005)

AmericanStand said:


> Don’t they actually pay the benefits to the parents on behalf of the children?


In some cases the benefits can be for children only. Not splitting hairs regarding who is in charge of the children.

https://lsnc.net/self-help/caring-your-relative-s-children-public-benefits-summary


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## doozie (May 21, 2005)

Bearfootfarm said:


> Anecdotal evidence isn't worth much, and changes very little in regards to the big picture.
> I always expect you to take the opposite side in most discussions, and you always meet my expectations.


And as always, You aren't actually discussing anything...


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## AmericanStand (Jul 29, 2014)

Bearfootfarm said:


> Anecdotal evidence isn't worth much, and changes very little in regards to the big picture.
> I always expect you to take the opposite side in most discussions, and you always meet my expectations.


 This isnt court room you’re not the judge or the jury. 
Antidotal evidence is the stock and trade here


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

doozie said:


> And as always, You aren't actually discussing anything...


That's one opinion that mainly serves to prove what I said before.


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

AmericanStand said:


> This isnt court room you’re not the judge or the jury.
> Antidotal evidence is the stock and trade here


Antidotes are highly recommended.


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## Oxankle (Jun 20, 2003)

“people on welfare,” I proudly say: I’m one of them. I grew up on it, I graduated valedictorian of my high school class, I’ve held a job since I was 15, and I went to college and earned my bachelor’s and my master’s."

Bears out my contention that no kid in this country is perpetually condemned to poverty. ANYONE can improve his lot in this world if he/she sets their mind to it and makes the right decisions. From abject poverty to successful self-supporting citizen is a win for the individual and the nation no matter what the field of endeavor might be.


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

Oxankle said:


> “people on welfare,” I proudly say: I’m one of them. I grew up on it, I graduated valedictorian of my high school class, I’ve held a job since I was 15, and I went to college and earned my bachelor’s and my master’s."
> 
> Bears out my contention that no kid in this country is perpetually condemned to poverty. ANYONE can improve his lot in this world if he/she sets their mind to it and makes the right decisions. From abject poverty to successful self-supporting citizen is a win for the individual and the nation no matter what the field of endeavor might be.


The flip side is the generational welfarees.


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## Danaus29 (Sep 12, 2005)

I think people are missing the point. Baby daddy won't marry Baby moma because then Baby daddy would have to help support Baby and Baby moma. If Baby daddy should be required to take care of the baby he produced. The taxpayers should not have to take his place in providing for his family. In some states Baby daddy would be required to pay that support, if he was named on the birth certificate. 

Don't get me started on all the tax money spent on welfare, free medical, free housing, and other support to people who are not citizens. Our school district has an extremely high number of children in a tax payer funded English as a second language class. It's so bad that our test scores and nationwide rating have plummeted because of the students who cannot speak or read English.


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## AmericanStand (Jul 29, 2014)

Why should the baby daddy have to support the kids ?
If the mom wants them let her support them.


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## Alder (Aug 18, 2014)

AmericanStand said:


> Lol but they pay for roads and parks that YOU use!
> 
> Remember as a red green says we’re all in this together


Ummm...not if everybody isn't pulling their weight....or worse yet, not even trying. And too many aren't.


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## AmericanStand (Jul 29, 2014)

Lol 
Who exactly do you think is pulling the wagon ?
When you go to Aspen for a skiing vacation is the young man operating the ski lift pulling the wagon? What about the cooks and the waiters in the lodge? Are they pulling the wagon?
What about the young ladies that clean your room?
Or do your laundry? Etc etc etc
All of these people pull the wagon get food stamps and collect welfare. 
So you tell me who’s not pulling the wagon ,the people doing the work but getting paid so little they can’t afford to live where they work or the people that take advantage of the fact that government will pay welfare to these people so they can have a cheaper Vacation ?


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## GTX63 (Dec 13, 2016)

AmericanStand said:


> Why should the baby daddy have to support the kids ?
> If the mom wants them let her support them.


What if she doesn't want them? How about neither of them want them?


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## AmericanStand (Jul 29, 2014)

I think those kids are called orphans


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## GTX63 (Dec 13, 2016)

What is your fair share of the orphan tax in Illinois?


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## AmericanStand (Jul 29, 2014)

Kinda hard to tell


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## GTX63 (Dec 13, 2016)

Not at all. If you don't know what you are paying to support these poor orphans then you aren't paying enough.


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## AmericanStand (Jul 29, 2014)

How do you figure ?


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## MO_cows (Aug 14, 2010)

I don't think cost has everything to do with use of birth control. There are more methods than ever, many available without prescription, and more unwed mothers than any time in history. It has become socially acceptable and the government lends support so the fathers and families don't have to step up. 

I know one family that had 5 kids, never married so mom could collect bennies while dad was in the home. They lived quite well with neither parent having a job outside the home except intermittently. Had to pay some withholding so they could get a big inflated tax refund. On the mom's side, a 2nd generation welfare family.  Using the system as a hammock not a hand up.


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## Hiro (Feb 14, 2016)

One, of many, enduring principles of economics is: If you tax something, you get less of it. If you subsidize something, you get more of it.

We are subsidizing fatherless children and taxing fathered children. We are subsidizing poverty and taxing income. It may seem heresy coming from a libertarian like myself, but I am thinking eliminating all welfare and income taxes, replace them with a universal basic income and a consumption tax may fix some of these malfunctions. But, that will never happen because it takes power away from the Beast that is Congress's taxing authority and welfare gifts.


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