# Jersey X Dexter's



## Oakshire_Farm (Dec 4, 2008)

Does anyone have a Jersey X Dexter that they milk??? I just bought a Dexter bull to breed my 4 girls, then head off to freezer camp  I am thinking out of 4 cows I should ge a heifer or two. I just got talking to a lady that was looking for a mini jersey, I got talking to her and she sounded interested in possibly getting crossed heifer from me. 

So does anyone have one, what is the aprox size and how much milk do you get from one? Pics would be great to


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## Frenchy (Sep 28, 2005)

I just spoke with a lady up the road from me she has a herd of Dexters an some mini jerseys as well as standard jerseys she has crossed some Dex/Jer an has a couple of heifers (Dex/full size Jer X mini Jer bull) due to calve this spring haven't seen any of her cows yet but soon as I can I will get some pictures an info for you if possible


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## francismilker (Jan 12, 2006)

Frenchy,
What part of Ark. are you from? That may not be too far for me to travel.


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## cowkeeper (Feb 17, 2007)

So does anyone have one said:


> Hi Oakshire, Size could be quite variable depending on the parents. My purebred Jerseys of 35 yrs ago were smallish, around 44 inches. The one I have now is 49 inches. There is a lot of variation too with Dexters. How big is your bull and does he carry the chondrodysplasia gene (dwarfism)? If he is a carrier, he would look small but have the genetic potential to produce either dwarfed or non-dwarfed offspring. (Chondro is a lethal gene in homozygous form, something to think about when using a carrier). If I were crossbreeding with Dexter, I would want to use a smallish (44-45") non-carrier bull.
> Some Dexters will not have much milk over what their calf requires, then there are milky lines. Do you have any information about his breeding, and dam's udder/teat shape and milkiness? ck.


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## copperhead46 (Jan 25, 2008)

Chrondo is not a factor if you are breeding to a Jersey. I would use a long legged bull, the standard is 42 to 44 inches, as compared to 34 to 38 inches for the short legged type of Dexers. If I wanted really small offspring I would use a shorter sized long legged bull, he will be able to cover all your cows, no problem. 
P.J.


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## cowkeeper (Feb 17, 2007)

copperhead46 said:


> Chrondo is not a factor if you are breeding to a Jersey. I would use a long legged bull, the standard is 42 to 44 inches, as compared to 34 to 38 inches for the short legged type of Dexers. If I wanted really small offspring I would use a shorter sized long legged bull, he will be able to cover all your cows, no problem.
> P.J.


Hi Copperhead, Chondro would become a factor, if someone bred a bunch of Jersey-Dex (with chondro) crosses, and decides to maybe breed them together. Why introduce a lethal to another breed, where owners of the crosses would not necessarily be aware of chondro? ck.


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## copperhead46 (Jan 25, 2008)

I absolutly agree about intorducing the gene into another breed, I just didn't really think that it would transfer unless both parents are carriers, and if they were cross bred with another breed that the calf would be a non-carrier. BUT, I don't know, you could be right on the money. I will do some research into the idea, because I'd like to know myself, because I cross breed my Dexter bull with some beef bred heifers. 
P.J.

I appoligize for hi-jacking the thread.......


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## cowkeeper (Feb 17, 2007)

OK, a Dexter "carrier" (dwarf), has one copy of the defective (chondro) gene. If bred to a cow that doesnt carry the gene, there would be no 'bulldog' (dead, aborted) calves, as that takes two copies of the defective gene. But, each mating of a Dexter chondro carrier to (for example) a Jersey, would have a 50/50 chance of producing a chondro carrier. If two of these chondro carrying crossbreds were then mated, there would be the same chance of having a bulldog calf as in Dexter cattle.
No doubt, there are already a lot of Jersey crosses that have been miniaturized by using a chondro carrier. The smaller size desired by those wanting a miniature Jersey can be achieved by using a small but non chondro carrying Dexter parent, with none of the risk.ck


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## Oakshire_Farm (Dec 4, 2008)

WOW thanks for all the info!

I however am not into doing a bunch of gene testing. I just want him to breed 4 of my cows then go to the freezer. He seems to have short legs. My hubby is going to dig a hole in the pasture that I can put my girls in when they are in heat.


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## genebo (Sep 12, 2004)

Dexters were selected from the small cattle native to Ireland. Probably most of the originals were dwarf cattle and subsequently a large portion of all the Dexters raised since then were, too.

It's been said that the Dexter form of dwarfism is unique to Dexters, but that would only be true if EVERY dwarf cow or bull in Ireland were collected into the herd that became known as Dexters.

In fact, almost every breed has dwarfism in it. Some breeds are known to have as many as 9 different forms of dwarfism. My neighbor regularly has 2 different kinds of dwarves in his Angus herd. One is invariably fatal at less than 1 year of age. The famous "snorter" dwarves of the Hereford breed were a form of dwarfism.

The form that Dexters might carry is different from most in that it's a dominant trait. It causes dwarfism when the host carries a single gene for it. That makes it part of the animals phenotype. It can usually be seen that the animal is a dwarf. In cases where there is doubt, there's now a DNA test that is easy to administer and is cheap.

Then the prevention of 'bulldog calves' is easy. Just don't breed two dwarves together. That's the same rule that applies to every breed. Being a carrier of dwarfism isn't easy to spot in other breeds. Their forms are recessive and don't show up except in the case where a calf gets both genes. Then you are surprised.

Chondrodysplasia is the scientific name for the dwarfism found in Dexters. It was described in a research study in Australia back in 2004, and a test was invented to determine if an animal carried it.

It's gotten a lot of publicity since then. A lot of people have adopted it as their personal crusade, to eliminate it and change the Dexter breed. It's hard to talk about anything Dexter related without one of them popping up, complete with dire predictions and catch phrases.

Being a dwarf due to chondrodysplasia is a benign condition. It is evidenced by short legs, thick bodies and mild manners. Carriers live long, healthy lives and bring great pleasure to their owners.

If you breed two chondro carriers together, there's a 25% chance you will not have a live calf. A lot of the embryos will be aborted or will fail to implant. Some of the embryos will survive full term, but expire as soon as separated from the mother. None of those will live and grow up with 2 copies of the gene. The other 75% of the calves will be normal calves, with 25% being long legged non chondro carriers and 50% short legged carriers.

So don't breed 2 dwarves together. That's the rule to follow to avoid having your cow either abort early or produce a non-viable calf.

Dexter beef is great! Many people say the beef from a short legged Dexter is the best of all. Makes sense, since they're placid, slower moving and seldom get excited ("No worries, mate"). Their beef should be tenderer and better marbled.

Feed conversion is another thing. The Dexter breed has a reputation for being good feed converters. I think it's the dwarves that do the best job, due to their more placid natures. I've raised some short legged Dexters and some long legged Dexters on the same pasture and feed supplements. The shorties always put on extra bulk.

Nothing is as bad as the fear-mongers make it out to be, and probably nothing is as good as those who love them make them out to be. I love my short legged Dexters. I wouldn't trade them for any other cattle.

A Dexter/Jersey cow is a great cross. Healthier and hardier than a pure Jersey. Less milk than a Jersey, but more than a Dexter. Smaller fat globules in the milk, making it easier to digest. A gentler disposition usually comes with the cross. And of course, smaller than a Jersey. Eats less.

It's such a popular cross that lots of people have made that cross for many years. Dexter/Jerseys are given names like Belfair, Belmont, Irish Jersey, and more. I had one. Liked her a lot.

Genebo
Paradise Farm


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## copperhead46 (Jan 25, 2008)

:goodjob:CK, I stand corrected.... a couple of folks on the Dexter forum say that you are correct, that the chrondro gene can be passed to a non-Dexter offspring. One of the ladys has Jersey crossed with Dexter one of her calves is a carrier bull calf. The lady also said that a lot of the mini-jersey breeders have their calves chrondro tested at Texas A&M just like Dexter breeders do, because so many of the mini jerseys were bred down by using carrier dexters as the seed stock. So, as long a someone uses a long legged Dexter,(non-carrier) on their Jerseys they can still get the smaller size without the threat of introducing Chrondro. Thanks for the chance to learn something new!!
P.J.


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## genebo (Sep 12, 2004)

Here's one for you:

Annie is a Dexter Shorthorn cross. She carries a recessive Shorthorn dwarfism. She's not a dwarf. I bred her to Noelly, a dwarf Dexter bull, making Breanna, a 37" cow.

Breanna is a Dexter type dwarf that carries Shorthorn Dwarf.

I then bred Annie to Brenn, a dwarf Dexterbull, making Brian, a 36" bull.

Brian is a Dexter type dwarf that carries Shorthorn dwarf.

Breanna and Brian's new owner bred them together and got Bucky, a Shorthorn type dwarf that is also a Dexter type dwarf. Bucky is 23" tall. He's been submitted to the Guinness Book of Records as the world's smallest bull. The current record holder is 27" tall.

Bucky is a 'double dwarf'. Amazing, huh?

http://i270.photobucket.com/albums/jj109/genebo16/10232009Bucky1.jpg

http://i270.photobucket.com/albums/jj109/genebo16/10232009Bucky10.jpg

http://i270.photobucket.com/albums/jj109/genebo16/10232009Bucky3.jpg

http://i270.photobucket.com/albums/jj109/genebo16/10232009Bucky7.jpg

Genebo
Paradise Farm


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## Timberline (Feb 7, 2006)

Genebo, how old was Bucky in those pics?


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## genebo (Sep 12, 2004)

Bucky was born on 11/29/08. He was 11 months old in the pictures I posted. He's 15 months old now.

The Guinness people won't accept his measurements until he's 24 months old, so we're waiting.

He hasn't grown any since the pictures were taken. It's almost a certainty he'll be under 27" at 2 years old.

He's a sweet little bull. He lives with an older goat for a companion. He doesn't do well mixed with the cows. He never gets anything to eat! His first goat companion died just after the pictures were taken. She was 20 years old. Bucky moped and seemed depressed, so he got one of the first goat's descendents, a young girl of 15.

He's never had his picture in the paper, but word gets around. Two or three people a week come by his farm to look at him. He's quite an attraction.

Bucky weighed 20 pounds at birth. He had a half-sister, a heifer, that was born the same day and was the same size, but a roaming dog killed her within a couple of hours.

Bucky is unique. You're extremely unlikely to have the same thing ever happen in using a Dexter to crossbreed. Dexters have been used extensively to reduce the size of cattle of all breeds for many years, and this is the first of these I've ever heard of.

He only illustrates the possibility that exists. Now the alarmists can start shouting about the dread "double-dwarf" syndrome.

Bucky is a beautiful creature. He recognizes me every time I go to see him and comes to see if I brought him some treats. They're lucky to have him.

Genebo
Paradise Farm


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## LizD (Dec 4, 2008)

The deliberate breeding of animals to carry a lethal gene, whether chondrodysplasia or PHA in our breed or any breed is contrary to what would happen in nature. This breeding of 'miniatures' through the use of incorporating a lethal gene which disguises real height is human engineering. I know that you say 'Bucky is a beautiful creature' but to me he is sad. He would never survive in any herd of cows, never mind if there were other bulls present. He shouldn't 'be' here, except for the fact that someone 'bred' a him and luckily there is someone who accepted him as a pet. 

You are right, every breed has HAD or still HAS some form of dwarfism..... Every other breed is working hard at eliminating it, except for ours, Dexters. 

I object to a picture of a 'Bucky' being held up as a poster boy of what the possibility of crossbreeding with a Dexter could do! It is not my 'crusade' to prevent you from breeding cows with a genetic abnormality, it is my crusade however to counter, every time you insist that Chondrodysplasia is an integral part of Dexters, and somehow 'cute'. There are a lot of Dexter breeders that are not trying to breed dwarfs but are trying to breed hardy, efficient small dual purpose cattle. Their milk is great and their meat truly exceptional, environmentally friendly and some of my best friends.. (well except for my husband, if he reads this!) Oh and btw Gene, Clive Taylor, a really large Dexter beef producer in the uk, insists that 'long leg' non- carriers are the best bet for commercial, only eats the carriers themself=ves because the long legs offer consistency. Read again his many posts on the 'Dexter boards'.

Ok that's my rant. But geeze Gene guess why Dexters aren't taken seriously in the cattle world??!!


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## LizD (Dec 4, 2008)

Sorry Oakshire, had to get that off my chest! I bred my standard reg. Jersey (49") to a non-chondro bull,(46") known for udders and daughters' milkyness. Unfortunately Gina (Lolabrigida .... mom is Brigit (Bardot)) is just a weanling so I don't know how she will look yet as an adult. The few things I can tell you for sure are that she has; really nicely formed teats, teat spacing and udder tissue. She is smaller, Dexter are naturally smaller cattle, so the bull factored in, is more tractable, Jersey definitely factored in , but she doesn't have any more back fat than her dam.... which was why I bred her Dexter in the first place. Your part of Canada is tropical compared to my frosty (-30 nights) corner! I am excited to see her freshen! I am excited to see if her milk is like a jersey, or a Dexter or a combination of both breeds. 

However my Dexters I will continue to breed Dexter and in the future my Jersey will be bred Jersey. Liz


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## Onthebit (Dec 3, 2008)

I agree with Liz, I am not about to start breeding Dexter s for the pet market. Bucky is a poor example of the breed to say the least.


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## genebo (Sep 12, 2004)

Bucky is not a Dexter. Bucky is a Dexter/Shorthorn cross who happened to get Shorthorn dwarfism plus Dexter dwarfism. As I stated before, the Shorthorn dwarfism is recessive. You can't tell they carry it. As far as I know, there's no DNA test for it, either.

In addition, if you knew the circumstances to go along with his birth, the care and compassion that his owners showed to his parents as well as to all their animals, you'd be singing a different tune. Don't rush to be judgemental based upon the small bit of information I supplied.

Let me see you love and care for an aging goat for 20 years, and do it so well that she remained in good enough health to bear her last kids when she was 19.

Bucky wasn't bred to be the way he is. It happened.

What is it about you Canadians? Does everybody speak French up there, eh?

And if you must criticize someone for presenting a poor example of the breed, how about someone who deliberately uses a bull that is over the height restrictions for the breed?

Show us your shining examples. I show mine. I already asked Liz to show hers on another thread where she was criticizing mine, but she declined.

Here's Bucky's brother, from the same mating:

http://i270.photobucket.com/albums/jj109/genebo16/08312009Charlie15.jpg

Charlie didn't inherit either form of dwarfism, even though he had the same parents. Do you think that he should never have been bred, too? Would y'all like both Charlie and Bucky to not 'be' here any more?

Here's their great-Grandfather, who started it all:

http://i270.photobucket.com/albums/jj109/genebo16/Noelly.jpg

What a noble animal. King of all he surveys and a gentleman beyond compare. I was priviledged to own him for a short time, but neither I nor the Angus farmers around here will ever forget him. They wanted to buy him to add quality to their herds.

What do you say, Liz? Would you have wanted him killed, so he wouldn't "'be' here"? (your words). You're too late. He passed on last year after a long rich life. On his last day, he gave rides to the kids where he lived.

Aahhh! Love those Dexters.

Genebo
Paradise Farm


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## LizD (Dec 4, 2008)

Actually Gene; I do speak French, but I am not sure what that has to do with anything other than your prejudice. You used Bucky as an example of the 'possibilities of a Dexter cross' not I. As I said before I think Bucky is truly an unfortunate result and if he were in a cow herd, not with a 15 year old goat, chances are that he would be dead. 

If you had used the picture of 'Charlie' as an example of the 'possibilities of a Dexter cross' I wouldn't have even responded to your posts, even with the bias's and inaccuracies.

I find it difficult to believe that I am the only person on this board, Canadian or not, that finds the boasting of Bucky appalling. Maybe because I am also a Dexter breeder and really get irked that other cattle breeders get examples like Bucky, I am the only one that spoke up. 

I don't care what you do Gene or what you look for in your breeding program but I do care how the breed or 'possible crosses' with our breed are portrayed. 

Incidentally Gene, you asked me what was wrong with your udder picture and I told you my opinion, you didn't ask me to show you an example. 

Go and reread it, Liz 

ps sorry Gene you did ask me later on in another post .. 

Here is Reannagh, fairly nice cow, lousy feet (my bane) I think she has a pretty good udder, *but I wouldn't post her as an example of what to look for in a cow.... *, that's why we have a breeding program, 40", tested non-chondrodysplasia (dwarf gene) carrier


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## linn (Jul 19, 2005)

I believe that some people support the theory that the "achondroplastic factor" was introduced deliberately by cross breeding with dwarf Devon cattle. If this is true then the Dexter is not naturally a dwarf-type animal, but small scale cattle. These short-legged individuals may be a throw back to the Dwarf Devon.

http://www.dex-info.net/summalderson99.htm


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## LizD (Dec 4, 2008)

Hi Linn, I've heard that theory too, Beryl Rutherford's book I think. In Dexter's the genetic abnormality is identified as 'Chondrodysplasia' formerly it was believed to be 'Achondrodysplasia' but just like the 'dun' gene it's unique to Dexters. I think it has to do with how the 'dwarfing ' affects the cannon bone ... but someone with more knowledge could maybe help me out with the explanation. L


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## cowkeeper (Feb 17, 2007)

The questions posed by the OP were about cross breeding Jerseys with Dexter, to produce a mini Jersey. The presumption is that people on a Homesteading Forum do not want a pasture pet, but an easily managed small cow, that milks well without the huge volume given by most Jerseys. This can be achieved with the cross, with proper consideration to the background of the Dexter used. A small milking cow can be bred without the unnecessary introduction of a lethal gene. 
IMHO, the pictures of the extreme dwarf animal belong in a pet forum, not in the cattle section, although the later picture of the normal animal of the same breeding without the inherited dwarfism illustrates just how valuable the elimination of dwarfism from both breeds would be.ck


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## linn (Jul 19, 2005)

I believe that is where I first read it, I couldn't remember until you mentioned her book. I remembered the above article so I referenced it. Probably didn't use the correct terminology. LOL For my part, when choosing an AI sire, I chose one that is a non-carrier of Chondrodysplasia. Why take a chance when there are so many good bulls that are non-carriers? By the way, I loved the picture of your Reannagh. My Lucifer daughter calved a couple of weeks ago. I will have to post the picture of her and the calf. She is much deeper bodied now than she was this summer.


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## Jennifer L. (May 10, 2002)

There are always two kinds of people who breed livestock. One is the person who trys to maintain the breed standard and is rigid in what should be allowed. The other type is the person who likes to mess around with genetics and likes tinkering. I have never known anyone of the second type who tries to adulterate the pure stock with the cross bred stuff. That's done by people who aren't breeders at all! Both types of breeders have their place: You wouldn't keep a breed around with the first kind, and you wouldn't get new breeds with the second.

For some reason the purebred type person always has problems with the person who likes to experiment with the genetics of their herd/flock, but the genetics person never seems to mind the purebred type. 

Thanks for all of the posts on Dexter genetics. It's interesting to me as I've had no contact with the breed at all. 

Jennifer


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## LizD (Dec 4, 2008)

Sorry I don't understand. Liz


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## Onthebit (Dec 3, 2008)

The deliberate introduction of a lethal gene into an animal to breed a 'pet' is unconscionable! Maybe us 'french' Canadians are just more ethical and can see how wrong it is to consider breeding an animal such as bucky!


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## wstevenl (Mar 26, 2008)

I don't have any problem at all with short leg Dexters as long as they aren't bred together but as I've told Gene before, that little bull is pretty sad and I wouldn't be showing off pictures if it was mine. We've got a little heifer that's probably 3 times his size that I'm pretty embarrassed about and I don't show pictures of her. She's are smallest cow but that doesn't make her special because she's really kind of ugly. 

I'm still waiting for a picture of a good Jersey/Dexter milk cow. I'd love to see one. The best example of a similar cross that I've seen was a Lowline Angus / Jersey cross. I'm sure you can still find it on this board.


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## LizD (Dec 4, 2008)

Olga has a really nice Dexter/Jersey cross, Elsie, pictured on her board. Maybe if she reads this she would post her here and get this topic back on track. Liz


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## copperhead46 (Jan 25, 2008)

This is the kind of crap that really helps us promote our breed, NOT!! Could you guys please keep your infighting to yourselves ??? We have a wonderfull breed cattle but some people are going to get the idea that dwarfs and bad feet are the norm, not the exception to the breed. There are a lot of Dexter breeders who want to breed for the smallest animal they can get, some of us don't. It's very simple, we're all different in what we like. Genebo, I understand that Bucky is a Dexter Shorthorn cross and that people don't read all the post before jumping to conclusions.
P.J.


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## sallymay (Feb 7, 2010)

Oakshire_Farm said:


> Does anyone have a Jersey X Dexter that they milk??? I just bought a Dexter bull to breed my 4 girls, then head off to freezer camp  I am thinking out of 4 cows I should ge a heifer or two. I just got talking to a lady that was looking for a mini jersey, I got talking to her and she sounded interested in possibly getting crossed heifer from me.
> 
> So does anyone have one, what is the aprox size and how much milk do you get from one? Pics would be great to


I have a Dexter-holstien I'm milkng now She wieghs about 550 lbs and is giving two gallons a day plus raising her own hiefer calf.


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## haypoint (Oct 4, 2006)

In the past I have cross bred cattle. I have come to believe that in most cases you lose out. A holstein crossed with a herford isn't as good a beef cow as a herford and isn't as good a milk cow as a holstein.

A pure Jersey is a beautiful milk cow. I'd like to offer a couple suggestions. 

A homesteader with 4 Jerseys does not need a bull. It is a waste of money and feed. Either borrow a neighbor's bull or AI. I recommend AI. 

If you have Jerseys and want some freezer beef, breed your Jerseys with a quality Jersey bull. Then sell the year old heifers and buy a year old beef steer. It'll take less feed and you should able to get a larger steer for the same money.

Sure, you'll get some Jersey steers, but you can still put those guys in the freezer.

The size of someone's Jersey/Dexter cross and the daily milk output has little bearing on what your calves will look like or amount of milk. Simply too many variables within each breed.

Do as you want, the world won't end over it, just MHO.


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## Oakshire_Farm (Dec 4, 2008)

WOW, I forgot about this thread. It is getting pretty carried away. I have no idea about what his gene's are??? nor do I really care. I picked him up for $300, he is a red, polled dexter bull. My plans were to keep him long enough to breed all 4 of my jerseys and then send him to freezer camp. If the calves come out all freaky and dwarfed, they will follow straight to freezer camp. I had planned on raising all the calves that I get from him for the freezer, but I had a lady contact me looking for info on mini Jerseys. I think they are just a ridiculously over priced fad, like all of these mini cows. I like my old world Jerseys and everything about them  But my hubby says I am not allowed to have more than the 5 cows that I have now (2 are young heifers) and it seems like every time I AI I am getting heifers!!!! So I saw this little bull and thought that he would be a good excuse not to keep any more heifers. After I had this lady contact me about the mini jerseys I thought that there may be a market for the heifers? So I just posted a question asking if anyone has crossed them before and what the aprox volume of milk that you would get from one is? These are questions that the potential buyer asked me. I have only ever had pure Jerseys and a holstein. So I can only assume that they will produce less milk, but wanted a guess on how much less? Thanks for the people that have posted some great info! My little "Fire Crotch" as we named him (lol) is really taming down! He has been in a box stall for about a month, he has learned to love his head scratches and is a nice little guy. I have to finish about 100 feet of fencing then he gets to come out and play!

edited to add,

haypoint, I am paying about $100/AI service I have bred one cow 4 times now! The bull cost me $300, as there is no Jersey bulls on the Island I love on, borrowing the neighbors is not a option! The only people around me with bulls have LARGE beef bulls, there is not even a angus that is close by as far as I know. I am NOT going to put my little heifer under a large herford bull!!! IMO keeping a bull till it is 18 months or so and butchering it, is more cost effective that AI


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## genebo (Sep 12, 2004)

Keep your little bull until he's 24 to 27 months old if you can. The beef gains a lot in flavor and marbling during those last months, and you get weight gain, too.

Genebo
Paradise Farm


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## Oakshire_Farm (Dec 4, 2008)

Even as a bull will he still be good at that age???? As long as he is behaving I do not have a problem keeping him that long, but the first sign of "bulliness" he goes  I plan on keeping him with my horses, then putting the cows in when the time comes for them. My horses will be good for keeping him in line. I have 2 shires.


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## LizD (Dec 4, 2008)

Oakshire the only problem with a bull, intact is that he doesn't put on the fat cover for hanging. As Gene said the longer you keep him the better the flavour. We usually ship steers at 29 months and the argue with the papers about age! :hobbyhors Liz


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## genebo (Sep 12, 2004)

The most "bulliness" he'll display will be his courtship of any cow that is in heat. At that time, he's intent upon doing the job he lives for. So intent that he may resent the presence of any other creature, including you, or he may completely focus on her and not even realize you're there. Give him room to work at that time. Don't get too close to the action and never get between him and the cow he's courting.

It may last 3 days. Once it's over, he'll rapidly return to his former self.

That's his job. Don't mark him down for doing it well. If he's a good bull, he should have to do this no more than 3 times for each cow. She should rebreed by her third heat after calving. Then you have nearly 10 months before she comes into heat again.

I've never eaten a bull, but I've read the statements of many who did, and only one ever said anything bad about bull beef. Bulls gain weight faster than steers, and have a higher beef to bone ratio. The reasons for steering a bull that is intended for beef is to make him less bullish in behavior and to prevent him from breeding the cows.

In the manner you intend to use him, he should out-perform a steer. My bulls outweighed my steers of the same age by a good margin.

Genebo
Paradise Farm


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## haypoint (Oct 4, 2006)

If it is costing you $100 to AI your Jeresys and it takes several tries, I suggest you learn to do it yourself.

If you are getting mostly heifers, rejoice. I think that a steady production of Jeresy heifers would boost the farm's profits like none else.Then you could buuy youirself one of those big beef calves from a neighbor. That's what I would do.


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## linn (Jul 19, 2005)

Doing your own AI doesn't necessarily guarantee conception on the first try. A lot of it has to do with your cow's condition and catching them at the right time in their heat cycle. Semen from good bulls start at $25. and go much higher. There is also the expense of shipping the semen plus the expense of a liquid nitrogen tank and regular refills. Training is also needed before one can start to AI their own cows. That is not cheap. A Dexter/Jersey cross should make a good calf whether it is a heifer or a bull calf.
I have AI'd our cows in the home pasture for years. It can get expensive it you have to AI the same cow more than once to get her to stick.


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## haypoint (Oct 4, 2006)

I was thinking that if one could do their own AI one could do a better job of breeding at the right time. If $100 a trip and 3 trips is the norm, you may have breeding broblems, but I was guessing the Tech. wasn't top notch. If you can't get someone good to AI, become good yourself. Think of it as another way to be a bit more less reliant on others, a goal of many homesteaders.

If you think a half milk cow, half beef is a beef cow, you might believe Tiger Woods and Barack Obama are white guys?

A Jersey is so small and delacate (meatless?) adding half the genetics of a beef animal isn't going to make it a meaty cow. That is not to say there isn't a lot of meat in a cross bred cow. I'd be more willing to go along with your plan if it were just a Holstein.

Few of us plan to sell our cows, but things change and cows do get sold. Most of the cross bred cattle (dairy/beef) that I see sell at auction are sold at a lower price than those bred specificly for one or the other.

When we figure up what it costs in feed, time and housing to raise a cow, the costs of obtaining a valuable animal through AI seems small. But that's just what I believe.


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## Oakshire_Farm (Dec 4, 2008)

It is just one cow that I have bred 3 times. I am thinking the problem is more the cow, both my other cows get bred first time. The cow that I cannot seem to get bred is a very over weight almost 3 year old Jersey, she has never been bred! The vet and AI tech have not found a reason that she is not getting preggo? But her date with freezer camp it getting closer, if my Dexter cannot get her.


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## DJ in WA (Jan 28, 2005)

haypoint said:


> In the past I have cross bred cattle. I have come to believe that in most cases you lose out. A holstein crossed with a herford isn't as good a beef cow as a herford and isn't as good a milk cow as a holstein.


It obviously depends on what you're doing. If you're a commercial operation, you want one or the other. For me, I want something in between, avoiding the extremes. I don't want 6 gallons of milk daily, with associated health problems. I don't want calving issues of pure beefers, granted you can avoid them. I want a single cow that can do pretty well at both.



haypoint said:


> If you think a half milk cow, half beef is a beef cow, you might believe Tiger Woods and Barack Obama are white guys?
> 
> A Jersey is so small and delacate (meatless?) adding half the genetics of a beef animal isn't going to make it a meaty cow. That is not to say there isn't a lot of meat in a cross bred cow.


I think as a beef cow, that's one advantage of part dairy. The cow has less meat on it, making it easier to maintain, as muscle burns more calories. Instead, the cow can put calories in the milk toward the calf and to my family.

Remember, if you have a half beef cow, and breed her to a beef bull, you have a 3/4 beef calf that is getting more milk, if you don't take it, thereby doing pretty well. Here's pictures of last year's steer from a lowline/jersey cross cow bred to a mostly lowline angus bull. I think he did pretty well, and sure tastes good. I take 1+ gallons daily (once daily milking) from the cow for almost 11 months of the year - calf gets the rest.


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## linn (Jul 19, 2005)

We have three or four Red Angus/Jersey crosses. They all milk well enough to raise two to three calves per year and when bred to an Angus bull they throw an excellent beef calf. They are also gentle to handle.


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## newminifarmer (Jun 22, 2008)

Thanks Sallymay! I'd love to see a pic! I ,hopefully, will end up with a Jersey Dexter cross. I have a 16 year old dexter cow whom I've bred with a short legged Jersey. I, too, am hoping for a little less milk, a smallish frame, a heifer (i know, cross my fingers), and the puppylike attitude both the parents have. This size and combo would be a good fit for my small farm. Plus my cow was never stancioned (?) or haltered, and to milk her you have to follow her around the field. I've only had her 2 years and would like a calf to train to stand. What a concept!


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## genebo (Sep 12, 2004)

Newminifarmer,

A family bought a mother/daughter pair of 1/2 Dexters to milk. I went over to watch them milk one day. They were milking the older cow in the pasture while she stood stock still. First the familiy's father milked a bit, then the mother, and finally each of the 3 girls did a turn. The youngest was 6 years old.

They complained about the younger cow being too cranky to milk. They said she refused to stand still, so they couldn't milk her. I had to explain to them just how extraordinary the older cow was to stand for them that way, and that the one they called 'cranky' was normal.

The don't have a stanchion. I tried to get them to build a stanchion, but they decided against it. They're getting enough milk from just the one cow.

You and your cow reminded me of them and the extraordinary cow they have.

Genebo
Paradise Farm


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## darbyfamily (Mar 16, 2005)

I on the other hand, have four Dexter cows that I want to breed to a mini jersey.. I don't want one running free in the back, but would a 50x50' enclosure be big enough to keep a bull in safely? 

we were considering learning to AI, but the class is $750 plus then supplies, so it would be cheaper to buy the bull for $1000.....plus he is likely to be much more successful than we would be 

Or maybe we'll just take the 'girls' to REI in Stillwater Oklahoma and let them do the job for us? So many choices!


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## linn (Jul 19, 2005)

There is surely an AI technician close to you. Call your local vet or extension agent. The major AI compaines such as ABS Global can put you in touch with a rep.


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## darbyfamily (Mar 16, 2005)

The nearest AI tech around here is in Kansas city. We are right on the kansas oklahoma state line... I'll check and see if there are ones from Oklahoma that may be closer, but we're probably 3 1/2-4 hrs from KC and our vet does not do AI.


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## copperhead46 (Jan 25, 2008)

I don't know about the mini Jerseys, but a normal Jersey is one of the crankiest bulls that ever lived. You would want to be very carefull having a Jersey bull around. I'm not sure that being in a 50 X 50 enclosure would help his temperment any, that seems pretty small.
P.J.


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## francismilker (Jan 12, 2006)

My suggestion if you want to use a Jersey bull would be hold your girls off until you're certain they're all open. Then, buy a Jersey bull, put the girls in with him instead of turning him out into a pasture. As soon as you see the deed done, sell him. I've handled several of them. Whether they have been bottled or pasture raised with no human contact they tend to get an attitude once they fall in love. I could possibly compare them to a meth addict coming down from a high and wanting another fix. If you have a jersey bull, it's not a question of "if" but "when" will their attitude change. 

If you need one, keep him on the place just long enough to use him and then sell him.


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