# Alternate Ideas - Replacing Baseboard Heat and Window AC



## MoonRiver (Sep 2, 2007)

I just bought an older home - baseboard heat and 1 window A/C. I want to make the house energy efficient yet comfortable. I am having 3 HVAC companies give me estimates, but wonder if there are alternative ideas I should include.

House is brick ranch, less than 1000 sq ft, crawl space and attic. Windows also need to be replaced. All windows and front door have awnings that make the house very dark. Also have a 2 car attached garage that is a car port enclosed with brick and windows. Could be a sunroom but would need heat/cooling to use year round.

I'm located in southern Virginia.

Thanks
Rich


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## OntarioMan (Feb 11, 2007)

currently electric baseboard heat or hot water baseboard heat? Does the house have ductwork?


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## MoonRiver (Sep 2, 2007)

> currently electric baseboard heat or hot water baseboard heat? Does the house have ductwork?


*Electric baseboard and no ductwork.*


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## Metcalf (Feb 15, 2007)

You might think about adding proper overhangs/awnings for the south and west windows to minimize summer heat gain. Stuff as much insulation as you can in the rafters. A centrally located wood stove is always a good heating option if your near a wood supply.


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## OntarioMan (Feb 11, 2007)

I suppose you'd have to look at all the options :

1 - continue using electric baseboard heat
- there may be more efficient baseboard units available

2 - install ductwork and go with a conventional forced air heat/cool system
- could run off natural gas, propane or electricity

3 - zone heating and cooling
- wall units which serve several "zones" of the house
- they heat and cool electrically
- lots of folks use these who have older homes with no ductwork

4 - hot water radiant heat
- system installs between floor joists 
- could also use conventional radiators or baseboard units
- requires no ducts but does require "piping" 
- could use an "on-demand" hot water unit as the heat source
- could be electric, gas, propane or wood fired
- could add "solar hot water" to the system in the future
- no air conditioning with this setup

5 - wood
- wood stove

6 - wall furnace
- electric, propane, gas

Obviously, things like insulation, sunrooms, shade trees, climate, windows/doors, window awnings, etc. etc. will play a roll regardless of which heat/cool system used. A "better box" will require a smaller heat/cool system - which uses less energy. 

A 1000 sq foot structure is not huge and you have the advantage of it all being on one level.

I'm guessing that most HVAC companies are going to suggest air ducts and a conventional system - because that is what most of them know.


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## MoonRiver (Sep 2, 2007)

Metcalf - Thanks


> You might think about adding proper overhangs/awnings for the south and west windows to minimize summer heat gain. Stuff as much insulation as you can in the rafters. A centrally located wood stove is always a good heating option if your near a wood supply.


The house already has awnings but I plan on taking them down. They make the house very dark. House also has a Buck Stove insert in the fireplace. Do need to add some insulation in attic.

OntarioMan - Just had my first quote yesterday for HVAC system (including ductwork) - over $12k. Don't think I have a $12k problem. Do you have any experience with mini split systems? From the little research I have done, this looks like it might be a good solution for me. 

I have 4 rooms (bedroom, office, great room which includes kitchen, and living room), plus bathroom and laundry room. The LR will rarely be used. 

I'm thinking a mini split that includes a heat pump could do the job at 30-50% of cost of HVAC.

Rich


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## mdharris68 (Sep 28, 2006)

If you decide to go minisplit, do some research as to warranty, parts availability and does the installer have experience troubleshooting them. I think they are great little units and will work great in a small home, especially with an open floor plan. But they can be particularly hard to get parts for unless you have a local supplier. The furnace and air conditioner parts are more available.

Did your HVAC estimate include furnace and air as well as the ductwork? or just air? Baseboard electric heat is actually a fairly good choice, if all of your rooms have thier own thermostat. Electric baseboard heat is considered 100% efficient because every dollar's worth of electricity that goes in comes out as a dollar's worth of heat. There are also only a couple of possible problems with them, making them very reliable. The only question is this: is your price per killowatt hour affordable? If so, you should at least try the heat if you haven't been around it. It's really a comfortable way to go. 

Depending on if you decided to keep the electric heat or not, a good choice for central air and heat would be a heat pump, mainly because you wouldn't need to take flue pipes/chimney out of your house (one less hole in your roof) and it would stay all electric, assuming that you may be all electric right now. 

I rely on my buck stove insert to get me through almost all of a Kansas winter though. They are great stoves. Doesn't quite keep up on those days below zero. Just thought I'de give you my 2 cents.


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## jgbndaudio (Jan 26, 2005)

Hello,

Keep in mind that forced air heating is generally not the most efficient method, because there's no mass to air and it gives up heat very quickly.

Radiant heating would be the most efficient.





MoonRiver said:


> I just bought an older home - baseboard heat and 1 window A/C. I want to make the house energy efficient yet comfortable. I am having 3 HVAC companies give me estimates, but wonder if there are alternative ideas I should include.
> 
> House is brick ranch, less than 1000 sq ft, crawl space and attic. Windows also need to be replaced. All windows and front door have awnings that make the house very dark. Also have a 2 car attached garage that is a car port enclosed with brick and windows. Could be a sunroom but would need heat/cooling to use year round.
> 
> ...


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## OntarioMan (Feb 11, 2007)

Around here, the mini-split systems are known as "zone systems", although that is probably technically incorrect - either way - I know of three or four commercial buildings and one person with an older home which use these, and the people love them. I should also mention that their primary use for them is A/C - so I'd investigate how efficient/effective they are with heating. I do know that places like Home Depot are starting to sell these for residential applications - so their use is rising.

For the $12k quote, you'll have to look at costs such as labour, how much for the ducting, the furnace, central air unit, etc.

You mentioned "research" - which is probably the best place to start. Unfortunately, most contractors have a "one size/type fits all applications" type attitude - so if you want something a bit unique, you'll have to do most of the legwork. Manufacturers are a great resource, and something as simple as a phone call or email may get you a wealth of information on a system to suit your needs.

It may be that you can combine heating/cooling with one system like a mini-split - and it may be that you'll be better served installing seperate systems.





MoonRiver said:


> Metcalf - Thanks
> 
> 
> The house already has awnings but I plan on taking them down. They make the house very dark. House also has a Buck Stove insert in the fireplace. Do need to add some insulation in attic.
> ...


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## Mel- (Mar 30, 2004)

my house is less than 1000 sq ft with baseboard heat and window acs.

when I've priced out a full furnace system with CA, compared efficiencies to see how much I would save, it would have taken 15 to pay for itself. most people I know with furnaces have had to replace them at 15 to 20 years.

there are some radiant heat baseboard type panels you can buy. use 220 like baseboards. much more expensive but in comparisons the only more efficient system was heat pump. these panels need to be placed over/by the area most commonly used in a room.


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## Ross (May 9, 2002)

12k is not a bad price for either gas or oil installed with duct work +AC. However you need to update your doors and windows, and bring the insulation up to modern standards anyhow so start there and see what the electric bil is. Otherwise price an oil or gas fired domestic water heater and baseboard system.


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## Esteban29304 (Apr 29, 2003)

$12k ?? Good Lord. I had a 1300 sg ft brick home & added a heatpump, all ductwork, etc, & it was about $6k & that was with an extra layer of attic insulation. Get more estimates.


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## crafty2002 (Aug 23, 2006)

Esteban29304 said:


> $12k ?? Good Lord. I had a 1300 sg ft brick home & added a heatpump, all ductwork, etc, & it was about $6k & that was with an extra layer of attic insulation. Get more estimates.


That's what I was thinking. It's been about 4 years since I built a house and I know prices go up but it cost me $6,300 for a heat pump, all the duck work and the AC part was a 5 ton unit.
Heating and Air is not one of my strong points, but asking "are you crazy is". 
The best I can remember the lowest bid I had #7,200 and I beat him down on it. 
Hey that was $900 of the profit. No, It was $7,400 because it was $1,100 I saved on it. 
And that was a 1,432 sq. ft. house. 

I might add the best money you can spend is for good replacement windows, extra insulation, (attic and floor) and good sealing doors in that order.
It doesn't matter how you pay for your heat. You can't heat the outside and with out those, that is what you are trying to do and paying for also. 
IMHO
Dennis


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