# Outdoor Wood Boiler install questions



## grammyrobinfarm (Jul 18, 2013)

So I am in the process of planning the install of a new Outdoor Wood Boiler and running Pex lines to Hot Water Baseboard Heaters. I plan on going with the expensive Insulated 1" Pex supply and return lines from the OWB to the house which will go into a central manifold and each Room will be branched off individually from that Manifold. Should I go with 1/2' Pex for the supply and return lines in the house or 3/4" Pex. I can get the Hot Water Baseboard Heaters in either 1/2" or 3/4". I am not sure what the benefit or detractor of each would be. Have any of you installed a similar system recently. Also what else do I need besides the obvious Pump, etc? I am a newbie at Heating and want to make sure that I get it right the first time. Thanks


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## haypoint (Oct 4, 2006)

Generally the larger pipe the more even the heat and faster recovery. 
If you have ductwork in the house, think about a heat exchanger.
Also, get a small generator to run the pump if the power goes out. That water, if uncirculated turns to steam quickly.
Answer to the question you didn't ask, put the OWB in a garage if at all possible. If not build a woodshed to put the OWB inside.


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## goodatit (May 1, 2013)

If not, build a woodshed to put the OWB inside. why Haypoint? i've looked at 2 places with wood boilers and neither one was in a shed.


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## mrs whodunit (Feb 3, 2012)

I thought OWB came in their own sheds?

That isn't good enough?


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## haypoint (Oct 4, 2006)

While opinions vary greatly, IMHO OWB waste a lot of heat. Anything you can do to hold the heat radiating out of your OWB, the better. Plus, you'll be spending a lot of time loading it and you'll want to be out of the wind and snow. 
A OWB set up in an un-insulated 3 car garage will heat the garage to comfortable temperature. To me, that's a lot of wasted heat if the OWB is sitting in the yard.

Many communities have banned OWB because the long wood that it takes is difficult to split, resulting in many people burning poorly seasoned wood. Combined with the short smoke stack, neighbors end up eating your creosote stench. But you don't have to do it that way.

But that isn't really the topic. 

I had a wood boiler in the basement. The boiler had two 2" pipes coming out the top, two 2" pipes running into the base of the boiler. Overhead, 2" pipes ran to both ends of the house. From there, 3/4 pipes ran to properly sized cast iron radiators in each room. When a fire was started in the boiler, the radiators in the second floor felt warm, first. Eventually, all the radiators were hot. The coolest place in the system was the base of the boiler. There was no need for a pump. Hot water rises, cool water drops into the base of the boiler, to be heated and rise into the radiators. While there were no radiators in the basement, the boiler gave off enough heat to keep the basement comfortable and the firewood dry. 

Later, a OWB was added to keep the wood mess out and provide cheaper insurance. Even being in a shed, the OWB burns 50% more wood.


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## 1shotwade (Jul 9, 2013)

It would be wise to think about closing it in at some point. It's free heat that could be used for a garage/greenhouse or whatever.I was told the pex in 1" cost $12.50 a foot running from the OSB. I am assuming that was for ALL the wire/piping needed tied together. I just ran 1" pex for a water line and it was $.50 a foot for a single line!You might check it out before buying. That's a big difference!
Also,when running from the boiler be sure to support the lines good. Once the weight of the water and the heat it's carrying gets into the unsupported areas it will sag real bad.
One friend tied into his spa and above ground pool on the return side and now can use them year round.Another I know ran an extra line to his 4 car garage and used a car radiator and box fan to move the air and heats the whole thing.
I'm not a big fan of "thinking outside the box" but this may be a case for that!


Wade


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## grammyrobinfarm (Jul 18, 2013)

haypoint said:


> While opinions vary greatly, IMHO OWB waste a lot of heat. Anything you can do to hold the heat radiating out of your OWB, the better. Plus, you'll be spending a lot of time loading it and you'll want to be out of the wind and snow.
> A OWB set up in an un-insulated 3 car garage will heat the garage to comfortable temperature. To me, that's a lot of wasted heat if the OWB is sitting in the yard.
> 
> Many communities have banned OWB because the long wood that it takes is difficult to split, resulting in many people burning poorly seasoned wood. Combined with the short smoke stack, neighbors end up eating your creosote stench. But you don't have to do it that way.
> ...


You had a gravity system which I also had in an old house I used to own. Int his place I have already ripped out the forced air system which had been very poorly planned and installed and I will be running hot water baseboard heat tied into a Central Boiler 5036 and running it with a pump since I want to keep the mess and fire hazard outdoors. I dont think my insurance company would like it if I placed the Outdoor wood boiler in a shed or garage. I do plan on locating it not too far from the location where I plan on building a garage which I will also use a portion of that building for wood storage. I will probably be using 1" insulated pex lines for the underground portion and the boiler will be about 75' away from my house and 25' away from the garage. For interior piping I plan on going with 3/4" pex supply lines that will all tie in to a central supply and return manifold. I will also be using a "Sidearm" on my Electric Water heater to heat my water when the boiler is in use.


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## grammyrobinfarm (Jul 18, 2013)

1shotwade said:


> It would be wise to think about closing it in at some point. It's free heat that could be used for a garage/greenhouse or whatever.I was told the pex in 1" cost $12.50 a foot running from the OSB. I am assuming that was for ALL the wire/piping needed tied together. I just ran 1" pex for a water line and it was $.50 a foot for a single line!You might check it out before buying. That's a big difference!
> Also,when running from the boiler be sure to support the lines good. Once the weight of the water and the heat it's carrying gets into the unsupported areas it will sag real bad.
> One friend tied into his spa and above ground pool on the return side and now can use them year round.Another I know ran an extra line to his 4 car garage and used a car radiator and box fan to move the air and heats the whole thing.
> I'm not a big fan of "thinking outside the box" but this may be a case for that!
> Wade



Yes the insulated outdoor lines are quite expensive. I have been reading some posts on hearth.com about a DIY job in insulating your own lines for a little cheaper and much better insulation. A coworker just told me about the car radiator trick yesterday and I think I'll give it a try. I will think through how to use as much of the heat as possible without wasting it, since the boiler I plan on going with should be able to produce enough heat for multiple locations.


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## mrs whodunit (Feb 3, 2012)

haypoint said:


> While opinions vary greatly, IMHO OWB waste a lot of heat. Anything you can do to hold the heat radiating out of your OWB, the better. Plus, you'll be spending a lot of time loading it and you'll want to be out of the wind and snow.
> A OWB set up in an un-insulated 3 car garage will heat the garage to comfortable temperature. To me, that's a lot of wasted heat if the OWB is sitting in the yard.
> 
> Many communities have banned OWB because the long wood that it takes is difficult to split, resulting in many people burning poorly seasoned wood. Combined with the short smoke stack, neighbors end up eating your creosote stench. But you don't have to do it that way.
> ...


And here I was thinking that down the road I would like to do a OWB but that bothers me if a OWB uses much more wood.

For us it still might be better in the fact we use 12+ cords of wood a year to heat this house with a single wood stove. If I went and installed more radiators and hooked them into a wood stove heating system I think the house would be more evenly heated. And the thought of running a line to my future greenhouse is :grin::grin::grin:

We do have a detached shop that the OWB could be installed in.

So much food for thought! Thanks Haypoint


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## haypoint (Oct 4, 2006)

grammyrobinfarm said:


> Yes the insulated outdoor lines are quite expensive. I have been reading some posts on hearth.com about a DIY job in insulating your own lines for a little cheaper and much better insulation. A coworker just told me about the car radiator trick yesterday and I think I'll give it a try. I will think through how to use as much of the heat as possible without wasting it, since the boiler I plan on going with should be able to produce enough heat for multiple locations.


Yes, most OWB produce a lot of heat. I love cutting, splitting and hauling wood, so the amount of wood I burn isn't too bothersome. I have my own woodlot. Just understand that the heat loss from the pipes moving it from outside to the house, the heat lost to the out of doors, plus plans to start heating additional locations, will entail a lot of wood. Gotta love it!

Instead of baseboard radiators, a neighbor ran plastic pipe on the underside of the subfloor, so he has radiant heat.


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## Guest (Mar 6, 2014)

Several years ago I did the electrical & plumbing for OWB's for a dealer in the area I was in . We normally laid a larger pipe in the trench & pulled the water pipes , electric wire & thermostat wire through that larger pipe . We also insulated the water pipes ourselves .


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## haypoint (Oct 4, 2006)

WV Hillbilly said:


> Several years ago I did the electrical & plumbing for OWB's for a dealer in the area I was in . We normally laid a larger pipe in the trench & pulled the water pipes , electric wire & thermostat wire through that larger pipe . We also insulated the water pipes ourselves .


There is already plenty of heat loss between the OWB and the house, I don't think scrimping on the pipe insulation is a good idea. I used the 6 inch corrugated pipe with factory sprayed in foam around the inlet and outlet pipes. Plus, I cut strips of 2 inch blue foam around the pipe in the four foot deep trench. 
But I live in an area where there is often a hundred degree difference between inside and outside temperatures. If I lived where I just needed to take the chill off, I might think differently.


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## Guest (Mar 6, 2014)

haypoint said:


> There is already plenty of heat loss between the OWB and the house, I don't think scrimping on the pipe insulation is a good idea. I used the 6 inch corrugated pipe with factory sprayed in foam around the inlet and outlet pipes. Plus, I cut strips of 2 inch blue foam around the pipe in the four foot deep trench.
> But I live in an area where there is often a hundred degree difference between inside and outside temperatures. If I lived where I just needed to take the chill off, I might think differently.


Not sure I'm following you . Are you saying the 6" corrugated pipe came with pre-insulated individual pipes already in it ? You also said the 6" pipe had factory sprayed in insulation in the ends . 
Did you run a separate conduit for the electric & thermostat wire ? In the area I was in a 4' deep trench would have been unnecessary as the frost line wasn't near that deep .
We pre-insulated each individual pipe before installing them in the conduit .


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## haypoint (Oct 4, 2006)

WV Hillbilly said:


> Not sure I'm following you . Are you saying the 6" corrugated pipe came with pre-insulated individual pipes already in it ? You also said the 6" pipe had factory sprayed in insulation in the ends .
> Did you run a separate conduit for the electric & thermostat wire ? In the area I was in a 4' deep trench would have been unnecessary as the frost line wasn't near that deep .
> We pre-insulated each individual pipe before installing them in the conduit .


I understand that you have a vastly different frost line. The insulated pipe was 5 or 6 inches in diameter. It has the insulation already inside. It can come with the electrical wire in it, too. There are different companies that use different insulation. I'm not sure if the pipe had foam in the ends or I did that. Been awhile. 
http://pro-heating.com/nindex.php?p=21


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## Guest (Mar 6, 2014)

Thanks , just noticed you & the OP are both way up north . Your info. concerning pipe depth & necessary insulation for pipes would be more valid than mine .


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## Anonymooose (Jul 13, 2012)

We just put in an outdoor wood boiler this winter. We live in a zone 3 climate- probably pretty close to where haypoint is. We saw very little above 15+ degree weather this winter, but are thankful for the warmup now underway. Our house is an early 1900's farmhouse, terribly insulated with some windows that need replaced. It has propane radiant baseboard heat, along with a Lopi woodstove that we were using to heat when propane skyrocketed. 

We bought a Central Boiler E-Classic, their new model that is 90+% efficient. It emits very little smoke, and burns very little wood when the temps are above zero. It is a long term investment, at $13,000 with installation, but it also does our domestic hot water and every room is warm. While everyone here is paying $4-5 dollars for propane, we unplugged our hot water heater. We also reclaimed house space that we had closed off when heating with the indoor wood stove, which couldn't keep up with the temps. We figure the payback at around 4 years, even if we were buying wood, which we havn't for years.
The outside heat run to the boiler was done with Thermopex, which runs around $10 per foot. Yes it is expensive, BUT it only looses 1 degree of heat per 100 feet of run. The snow isn't really even melting around it. It is installed on top of the snow until spring when we can trench it in, 2 feet down. 

Oh, and our insurance wanted it at least 15 feet from the nearest structure, including the woodshed. Your insurance may vary.
Hope this helps someone a bit. Not all outdoor woodboilers are created equal


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## Guest (Mar 11, 2014)

Just out of curiosity what kind of warranty came on that boiler ?


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## Anonymooose (Jul 13, 2012)

25 year limited warranty


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## pips (Mar 9, 2014)

just a note if using the high heat pex make sure u dont have any fittings outside lol my dad had elbows outside going to unit it got cold and he had it going strong and the pex expanded and blew the fittings.granted he was using it to heat indoor pool and he was running it hard but when we called the manufacturer they said no fittings inline outside.we upgraded to black pipe and other then condensation we have had no other issues.this year he is kicking himself as he spent 8 thousand and i put in a daka wood burning furnace for 800.lol i put mine in a shed outside and it blows forcrd air in house.heats whole house.


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## MNBobcat (Feb 4, 2011)

I have a central boiler OWB in a shed and I detect no heat coming off the boiler at all other than where the metal elbows and pumps are located. Its all insulated in spray foam.


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## grammyrobinfarm (Jul 18, 2013)

MNBobcat said:


> I have a central boiler OWB in a shed and I detect no heat coming off the boiler at all other than where the metal elbows and pumps are located. Its all insulated in spray foam.


Which model boiler do you have? I am going back and forth between the Classic or E-Classic models - not sure if the E-Classic is worth the premium price and how much more efficient it is. I plan on placing my boiler outdoors with a maximum 50 foot pipe run to our house. Which insulated pipe did you end up going with?


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## pips (Mar 9, 2014)

for the guys running broilers you guys have 2 free sources of heat local u all should look into.pine most tree removal companies will haul in all u want for free as they have to pay to get rid of it.cow patties yes i said cow patties when dry they burn hotttttt methane in them.a local farmer gathers it and burns in his boiler 10 patties burns like a full load of wood.withy the higher rate of buRN MOST broilers run at both are fine to burn in them.


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## haypoint (Oct 4, 2006)

Ever see an OWB covered in snow?


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## MNBobcat (Feb 4, 2011)

I have the 6048. When I put my hand on the metal skin, its ice, ice cold.


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## MNBobcat (Feb 4, 2011)

grammyrobinfarm said:


> Which model boiler do you have? I am going back and forth between the Classic or E-Classic models - not sure if the E-Classic is worth the premium price and how much more efficient it is. I plan on placing my boiler outdoors with a maximum 50 foot pipe run to our house. Which insulated pipe did you end up going with?


Use the expensive thermopex tubing that the central boiler dealer sells. A lot of people try and go cheap on that and lose a lot of heat to the ground which translates to you having to cut a lot more wood.

The e-classic uses a lot less wood but your wood has to be very well seasoned with a low moisture content or it won't burn right. The standard model can burn wood you cut the same day. It works best with a mix of green and dry wood. I go through about 26 cords a year though but then I heat a lot of square footage, too. Still, if I bought all my woods in 8 foot logs its still half the cost of heating with gas. So any way you look at it, I come out ahead.


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## 1shotwade (Jul 9, 2013)

MNBobcat said:


> Use the expensive thermopex tubing that the central boiler dealer sells. A lot of people try and go cheap on that and lose a lot of heat to the ground which translates to you having to cut a lot more wood.
> 
> The e-classic uses a lot less wood but your wood has to be very well seasoned with a low moisture content or it won't burn right. The standard model can burn wood you cut the same day. It works best with a mix of green and dry wood. I go through about 26 cords a year though but then I heat a lot of square footage, too. Still, if I bought all my woods in 8 foot logs its still half the cost of heating with gas. So any way you look at it, I come out ahead.


26 cord a year!!! That's a lot of wood! I've got an s-10 for a wood hauler and I burn between 24 and 30 truck loads to heat 3500 ft.I can fit 1/3 cord per load so that between 8 and 10 cord. That would be equal to you heating around 9000 ft. I thought these were supposed to be more efficient than a wood stove but I wonder.
I think I'll keep the wood stove in the basement. I have a hard time cutting what I need each year so in that respect,I can't afford an OWB !

Wade


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## MNBobcat (Feb 4, 2011)

1shotwade said:


> 26 cord a year!!! That's a lot of wood! I've got an s-10 for a wood hauler and I burn between 24 and 30 truck loads to heat 3500 ft.I can fit 1/3 cord per load so that between 8 and 10 cord. That would be equal to you heating around 9000 ft. I thought these were supposed to be more efficient than a wood stove but I wonder.
> I think I'll keep the wood stove in the basement. I have a hard time cutting what I need each year so in that respect,I can't afford an OWB !
> 
> Wade


My house is 7,000 square feet. I heat the house, heat the garage and all the hot water we use. Also, being in Minnesota it gets a lot colder then where you are...so it sounds like I'm right on target based on what you burn. 

This year I bought 8 foot logs for $85 a cord. Comes out to about $2,200.00. Had I heated with propane, in a normal year at normal prices it would have cost almost $4,000.00. So I can buy all my wood and still save a lot of money. Prior to this year, I cut all my wood on my place. Just didn't have time this year.


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## grain bin man (Mar 24, 2014)

grammyrobinfarm said:


> Yes the insulated outdoor lines are quite expensive. I have been reading some posts on hearth.com about a DIY job in insulating your own lines for a little cheaper and much better insulation. A coworker just told me about the car radiator trick yesterday and I think I'll give it a try. I will think through how to use as much of the heat as possible without wasting it, since the boiler I plan on going with should be able to produce enough heat for multiple locations.


Hello, my first reply on this site. I built the car radiator set up in my soon to be torn down house. If fact I built my intire sytem, boiler, inuslated pex in drainage pipe & controlers. I am working on putting together an afordable linear control system. 
In short nothing works better than fully isolated, insulated heated cement floor to heat with. 
I have installed 300ft of pex in my round floor in my grain bin. I can help anyone in this topic on hydronic heating if needed. There are lot of things that people say on this subject that are iffy to say the least. My only issue is typing things out on my home tablet.... drop me message if anyone needs help, thanks Murf
Ps what are trackbacks mentioned just below this box I am typing in?


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## grain bin man (Mar 24, 2014)

MNBobcat said:


> My house is 7,000 square feet. I heat the house, heat the garage and all the hot water we use. Also, being in Minnesota it gets a lot colder then where you are...so it sounds like I'm right on target based on what you burn.
> 
> This year I bought 8 foot logs for $85 a cord. Comes out to about $2,200.00. Had I heated with propane, in a normal year at normal prices it would have cost almost $4,000.00. So I can buy all my wood and still save a lot of money. Prior to this year, I cut all my wood on my place. Just didn't have time this year.


I'm only heating 3000 sqft here in Michigan. Last year I spent $120 total in slab wood from the local amish mill. 4 cartrailers full, it was $20 a bunble. Plus id say just over 60 old skids off my manufacturing companies burn piles. Oh and 40gl of propane in my rocket stove mass heater. I didn't keep track this year but when the silos done my goal will be to heat the intire winter season for $ 100.00


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## just_sawing (Jan 15, 2006)

I shake my head at people complaining about wood. 
I own a sawmill and during the heat of the summer I burn piles of wood to get rid of it. 
If someone would be willing to work in the heat they can have the slab wood.
All of the sawmills here have large ash piles because people don't work until they get cold.
During the winter I charge for wood and have a waiting list.


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## 1shotwade (Jul 9, 2013)

just_sawing said:


> I shake my head at people complaining about wood.
> I own a sawmill and during the heat of the summer I burn piles of wood to get rid of it.
> If someone would be willing to work in the heat they can have the slab wood.
> All of the sawmills here have large ash piles because people don't work until they get cold.
> During the winter I charge for wood and have a waiting list.


It's not just down there! I'm cutting with an lt30 and same thing. If I can operate in 95* temps and the winds changing all the time and sawdust sticking to you everywhere and you can't keep it out of your eyes,then you'd think people could spend 20 minutes to cut a truckload of slab that's stacked in one place that you can back right up to but that doesn't seem to be the case.
Most people up here want to keep the slab themselves to burn but then 2-3 years later you happen by their place and that same stack of slab is still right where it came off the mill but there's smoke rolling out of the chimney!
A lot of people I cut for hires "day Labor" to help while sawing and these guys don't have a real job and burn wood but aren't interested in the slab.Nearest I can figure is they get Government vouchers so aren't interested in it.Maybe they haven't figured out it can be cut,hauled and stacked so THEY can sell it in the fall. It may not make them a lot but it could a least maybe pay for their drug habit !


Wade


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## Wojo (Apr 12, 2011)

We've been running a Central Boiler 5036 for three seasons, in northern Michigan. I have the boiler located roughly 300' from the house. This was for logistical reasons. Where I have it located I can have wood delivered, cut, and stacked without having to move it again on the property. We bought a 21' x 18' carport and set it up with the boiler tucked under one end...with just enough of the boiler poking out to have the stack outside of the carport.

We have the boiler tied into our existing LP boiler/baseboard system via a heat exchanger. We also have it tied to our water heater. I'm averaging about 5 cord a season. Compared to what heating with LP cost us, I have payoff on the boiler/installation after this season. 

I had a bunch of family members and friends who were curious about our setup, so I put the following blog post together. Maybe it'll be useful for answering some of your questions. 

How It Works: Wood Boiler Edition

Regarding the install, I worked out a deal with our boiler dealer where I operated as the second man on the installation. I cut the labor costs in half, and I learned a ton about my system.


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