# Hasson, the underequipped Coast Guard would-be Terrorist



## Oxankle (Jun 20, 2003)

News reports say this fellow had 15 guns and a thousand rounds of ammo. To be honest, facts alleged do make him sound like a dangerous nut case. 

However, if you check members of gun clubs around the country, and collectors, you'd think he was sadly under-equipped with only fifteen weapons. I'd have to count, but I may have 15 weapons of one kind or another.

Hmmmm: I wonder how many of those weapons the fellow can use at once? If I were a terrorist, one automatic or semi weapon and a stack of clips would be better than an arsenal of junk that did not match and was not useful for the purpose. No one mentioned bombs, poison, biological weapons-- Just what was this fellow going to do? Not much, but he could make a big stink and kill a few people. If he is really a terrorist, hang him.


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## GTX63 (Dec 13, 2016)

Years ago I was visiting a friend who brought out his assortment of long guns and pistols.
As his wife stood nearby in the kitchen setting out dinner she said it looked like he had a gun for every window. 
He said his wife put the kabosh on buying any more guns, but then he looked over at her and said 
"But we could use some more windows."


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## Kiamichi Kid (Apr 9, 2009)

I could say a lot of things about this particular "alleged" terrorist... but for now I'll just say this..1000 rounds of mixed ammunition is like a drop in the ocean.That's not much ammunition at all really.During my time in the military,at one particular unit I was a member of a competitive pistol team.It was my job to go to the range and shoot 5 days per week..500 rounds per day minimum.I also competed in small local competitions as a civilian.I was loading 200 to 300 rounds each evening after work so that I could practice and compete on the weekends. Is this guy a nut case? I dunno...but I do know that the number of firearms and ammunition he had was no big deal.


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## shawnlee (Apr 13, 2010)

Scary how they lumped in the 1000 rounds and visited sporting goods sites online as if they were punishable things to be frowned upon.


Dangerous road when a bunch of legal things become some sort of evidence when lumped together,...…….but having a kill list manifesto should be punishable...….a couple guns and a few rounds of ammo and visiting cheaper than dirt too much is whole different conversation.


Sounds like a nutjob to me though,....just very concerning several legal things were lumped in with his character judgement.


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

shawnlee said:


> Scary how they lumped in the 1000 rounds and visited sporting goods sites online as if they were punishable things to be frowned upon.


That's not so subtle "programming".
They want to outlaw online sales of ammo, and make it illegal to "stockpile".

He probably had a couple of "bricks" of 22 LR.


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## GTX63 (Dec 13, 2016)

Online porn is more of a problem than online ammunition.


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## Oxankle (Jun 20, 2003)

Kid: When I was an active member of the Oil Capital Rod and Gun Club in Tulsa I knew several men who competed in the pistol matches. It was nothing to see one of them at his loading bench dropping .45 rounds into a five gallon bucket.

I did not compete, but I still have a few loaded .357 rounds and about 700 or 800 pieces of brass. I mostly loaded rifle ammo and still have some of that, plus all my loading tools. I suppose I'd be considered a potential terrorist.

And as Bearfoot says, I have a couple of bricks of .22 shells and one of those dangerous semi-auto rifles hidden away.
*Hasson, the underequipped Coast Guard would-be Terrorist*


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## haypoint (Oct 4, 2006)

I have a neighbor that 50 years ago had a run in with the local Farmers Home Administration. After working his whole life on his grandparent's farm, he had a chance to buy their farm. He left for 5 years to earn money for a down payment. His wife's spending while he was away resulted in the down payment being smaller than he'd hoped. Then FHA turned down the loan request since had lacked "recent" farm experience. His wife thought this would be a good time to divorce him and move away.

He made some serious threats to the government. He did some prison time and returned to help his parents farm. They raised sheep and cattle in an area with many coyotes. His father owned a shotgun and a .22 rifle, but he is not allowed to own a firearm, due to the long ago federal felony.

Years pass. His parents died. A woman, new to the area cultivated a relationship with him. As it evolved she exerted more pressure on what he should be doing on the farm. He rebelled and broke off the friendship. She retaliated by contacting ATF about him possessing an arsenal of weapons.

Based on her statements, they got him out of his truck, on the way home, hand cuffed him, searched his farm. They found the shotgun and .22 and half a box of shotgun shells and two bricks (500 rounds each) of .22 shells. He was arrested for possessing "several rifles and over a thousand rounds of ammo."

He posted bond and returned home. His sauna is across the road from his house. As he returned from his sauna, he saw this woman's vehicle in the road in front of his house. As he approached his house, she exited. He ordered her off his property. She refused. He went into his house and called the police. But the closest police was an hour away and currently busy.
So, he came out ordered her off his property. She replied, " Make me". So, he grabbed her shirt collar and rear belt loops and forced her out to the road and gave her a shove.

She went to the hospital and then to the police. He was charged with assaulting a federal witness, since it was her testimony that instigated this ATF event. A protection order was issued and since she has to pass his house to get to town, he was banned from going home. Friends and neighbors helped with chores, but since it was lambing season, many lambs were lost.

Eventually, he was given 5 years probation.

Moral of the story is that you don't want the heavy foot of the government on your neck.


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## FarmboyBill (Aug 19, 2005)

Don't wanna say what IM thinking lol
KK Yes I guess a g amount of shells is small by your standards, But ive yet to hear of bank robbers, terrorsts whatever running out of ammo before they got shot down. Point is, One such like usually don't have time by the time theres targets to shoot at to expend all the ammo they bought to do the job before theyre shot


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## Oxankle (Jun 20, 2003)

Have any of you seen the video of the shoot-out between the female deputy and the illegal alien in California this morning? He got off one or two shots but she emptied her weapon. The perp did not survive.


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## Kiamichi Kid (Apr 9, 2009)

FarmboyBill said:


> Don't wanna say what IM thinking lol
> KK Yes I guess a g amount of shells is small by your standards, But ive yet to hear of bank robbers, terrorsts whatever running out of ammo before they got shot down. Point is, One such like usually don't have time by the time theres targets to shoot at to expend all the ammo they bought to do the job before theyre shot


What???


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## Kiamichi Kid (Apr 9, 2009)

Oxankle said:


> Have any of you seen the video of the shoot-out between the female deputy and the illegal alien in California this morning? He got off one or two shots but she emptied her weapon. The perp did not survive.


I haven't seen it but I am glad that another scumbag has been taken off of the streets...


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## frogmammy (Dec 8, 2004)

I've got **WAY** more than 1,000 rounds of 22LR. Now that I don't shoot as much, I'd swear it breeds down there in the dark. The 45 and 380, don't have as much...guess it only matters if you have enough to handle the situation you NEED it to handle, with the proper tool. 

Mon


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## Terri (May 10, 2002)

Kiamichi Kid said:


> I haven't seen it but I am glad that another scumbag has been taken off of the streets...


Pretty much. 

As I recall the lady deputy was criticized for shooting him dead, but, he was trying to kill her. Her killing him instead of trying to wound him was ENTIRELY her call, and I am just glad that the deputy did not die.


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## CKelly78z (Jul 16, 2017)

MSM putting their liberal (ban all guns) lean on this story, they also claimed drugs were involved. This made me think that the drugs were dropped at the scene to make him look MORE guilty, and I have more than 1000 rounds for each caliber of gun I own...not crazy !


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## Twp.Tom (Dec 29, 2010)

This must be fake news huh?, FBI, just a few thousand rounds-, what harm could he possibly do? Hej I really like guns!, but any wacko who wants to create carnage-Has got to go!


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## ydderf (Dec 15, 2018)

I agree with Haypoint it is best to be like a church mouse quiet and mostly unseen. I remember a bar fight when I was 21ish by the time the police arrived we were friends again. I suggested to the RCMP officer that he should go finish his doughnut. I had to quit my job and leave the small town, seems every time I came to town I got a traffic ticket for something or other. When I received the letter threatening a license suspension because of the points on my drivers record I decided to move.


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## Kiamichi Kid (Apr 9, 2009)

While I agree that anyone planning or attempting such acts should be taken off of the streets and locked away, I do believe that this will be used by the left and MSM for propaganda purposes.It will get airtime far out of proportion to it's actual importance.If the intended targets were anyone other than the darlings of the left in government and media the story would die out rather quickly.


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## AmericanStand (Jul 29, 2014)

Kiamichi Kid said:


> I haven't seen it but I am glad that another scumbag has been taken off of the streets...


 I didn’t think the cop was killed?


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## AmericanStand (Jul 29, 2014)

Want to say what the Chicago trib saif about the murder of my local gun guy ? He was a licensed firearms dealer who sold more machine guns and other specialty items to Illinois State police than any other dealer In the state.
He was set up by a state trooper that was dating his wife shot without warning and left to die for over an hour in the middle of the street. 
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.chicagotribune.com/news/ct-xpm-1988-01-17-8803220910-story,amp.html


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## Kiamichi Kid (Apr 9, 2009)

AmericanStand said:


> I didn’t think the cop was killed?


Are you calling the cop a scumbag that killed the perp that tried to kill her?


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## Kiamichi Kid (Apr 9, 2009)

The scumbag was killed ... not the cop


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

Oxankle said:


> News reports say this fellow had *15 guns and* *a thousand rounds* of ammo. To be honest, facts alleged do make him sound like a dangerous nut case.


With 15 guns, that's less than 70 rounds per gun.

Six were handguns.
That ammo commonly comes in 50 round boxes.
Most people who shoot a lot will buy a 1000 round case to save money.
That's the number of rounds required to complete the Basic Law Enforcement Training course here, and it's fired in about 3 days. (A couple of hours each day)

Three of the rifles appear to be 22 LR.
That also comes in 50 round boxes, but it's common to buy a 400-500 round "brick" to get a cheaper price.

There were 2 shotguns. A case of shotshells is 250 rounds. (25 per box)
It's not unusual to shoot a couple of boxes in a few hours in a dove field or on a range.

1000 rounds seems like a lot to people who don't shoot.
That's what the media wants you to think.
They want you to be afraid.


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## FarmboyBill (Aug 19, 2005)

I MIGHT have a couple hundred 22s, and maybe a doz 12ga, and that's it,


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## Oxankle (Jun 20, 2003)

Bill; if we look at it objectively that is plenty for most of us. For self-defense the dozen 12 gauge are more than enough. For the varmints that you'll encounter where you are the .22 is again more than enough. Even if you hunted deer you'd need only a box of shells and a rifle bigger than the .22. Every one of us with more weapons than that has a specialized use for the extra or is just buying another toy. 

Example: I have a closet full of guns, but I have always wanted one of those thin-barrelled .410 doubles of the kind a friend had as a boy. Found out the Turks were making them on Computer-controlled machines that produced a perfect fit to every part. Saw one, bought it, have fired it perhaps a half dozen times. If I ever go quail or dove hunting again that will be my carry. What do you think are my chances?

Oh, I forgot: That thing has interchangeable chokes; you can open it up to fire slugs, and it will handle steel shot. I don't think I'd try cut loads in it.


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## FarmboyBill (Aug 19, 2005)

I do have my BP 36s Navys, and a BP 50 Hawken double set triggers replica.


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## FarmboyBill (Aug 19, 2005)

I have never taken it out to hunt. I couldn't drag a deer any distance if I shot one. My boy/his wiofe, and their son hunt deer. Well, I guess he is such a bad shot that he quit hunting them with guns, and got one with hisa car. The cars like a derringer. Point blank and one shot LOL Totaled it.


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## frogmammy (Dec 8, 2004)

I have a grandson who likes black powder. He has a BP rifle he bought for deer hunting, think he's gotten a couple with it. I gave him DH's BP Navy pistol after he died...he's likely the only one who would really appreciate it.

Mon


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## IndyDave (Jul 17, 2017)

Bearfootfarm said:


> That's not so subtle "programming".
> They want to outlaw online sales of ammo, and make it illegal to "stockpile".
> 
> He probably had a couple of "bricks" of 22 LR.


Exactly. The last time I saw the media talking about police seizing guns, it was described as an "arsenal" when in reality it was a half-dozen Fudd guns with a small amount of ammunition for a person who actually practiced to proficiency.


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

IndyDave said:


> it was described as an "arsenal"


Arsenal is actually a correct term.

People tend to think it means a *lot of guns*, but it really only means "a collection of weapons". 

Two knives could correctly be called an "arsenal".
The media tries to make it sound evil.


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## IndyDave (Jul 17, 2017)

Bearfootfarm said:


> Arsenal is actually a correct term.
> 
> People tend to think it means a *lot of guns*, but it really only means "a collection of weapons".
> 
> ...


Perhaps technically truthful but well outside the generally accepted context. Similarly, you *could* call two animals a herd.


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

IndyDave said:


> Similarly, you *could* call two animals a herd.


Yes you could, and you'd be correct.
It's not dependent on a specific number.


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## Kiamichi Kid (Apr 9, 2009)

I do believe that there are fundamental differences in our life experiences,circumstances and possibly even genetic make up that makes us view things through a different lens. These differences effect how we look at most everything in life and even how we act in certain situations. There are some that see a handful of shotgun shells , a few 22 rounds and a single box of shells for their deer rifle as being being all they could ever need.(I'm not one of them for a number of reasons) There are others, myself included that consider the ownership of firearms and ammunition and the regular training with them not only our natural right but also our moral duty.History has proven time and again that well armed and well trained citizens have been called upon to protect and defend their families , communities and countries from the forces of evil men.


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## Oxankle (Jun 20, 2003)

Kid; I agree to a point, but I would hate to have to face you even after you'd not popped a cap for five years. There is such a thing as muscle memory, and it comes back when the adrenaline flows.

I do see your point about keeping a bit of ammunition around. Explains my loading equipment back in the storeroom.


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## IndyDave (Jul 17, 2017)

Bearfootfarm said:


> Yes you could, and you'd be correct.
> It's not dependent on a specific number.


That doesn't change the fact that the uncommon is as is deliberately engineered in order to be willfully dishonest.



Kiamichi Kid said:


> I do believe that there are fundamental differences in our life experiences,circumstances and possibly even genetic make up that makes us view things through a different lens. These differences effect how we look at most everything in life and even how we act in certain situations. There are some that see a handful of shotgun shells , a few 22 rounds and a single box of shells for their deer rifle as being being all they could ever need.(I'm not one of them for a number of reasons) There are others, myself included that consider the ownership of firearms and ammunition and the regular training with them not only our natural right but also our moral duty.History has proven time and again that well armed and well trained citizens have been called upon to protect and defend their families , communities and countries from the forces of evil men.


Absolutely. I am a descendant of a revolutionary war veteran. I can die standing behind a rifle just as well as I can die any other way. It isn't about being a hero. It is about not pissing away what was given to me paid for in blood out of cowardice, apathy, or stupidity.


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## Kiamichi Kid (Apr 9, 2009)

Oxankle said:


> Kid; I agree to a point, but I would hate to have to face you even after you'd not popped a cap for five years. There is such a thing as muscle memory, and it comes back when the adrenaline flows.
> 
> I do see your point about keeping a bit of ammunition around. Explains my loading equipment back in the storeroom.


I keep mine on hand as well,although I've actually not loaded any myself for a couple of years. I've taught the art of precision ammunition manufacturing to two of the finest young men I've ever known.They take good care of the Old Man..Now that I'm healed up from the last few major surgeries I'll be getting back into my routine of loading and shooting on a regular basis. I have a dedicated rifle/pistol range here on the homestead where friends and family come to shoot.I also enjoy teaching basic marksmanship and firearms safety to new shooters.


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## FarmboyBill (Aug 19, 2005)

Mamy, Ive had mine since 74. I did quick draw with it, until I got into the SCA. Like Chuck says, and to paraphrase it, Although I havnt really practiced quick draw, in a long time, whenever I do stick a navy in my waist band and haul it out. Everything works about as fast as it once did.


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## FarmboyBill (Aug 19, 2005)

Mamy, Ive had mine since 74. I did quick draw with it, until I got into the SCA. Like Chuck says, and to paraphrase it, Although I havnt really practiced quick draw, in a long time, whenever I do stick a navy in my waist band and haul it out. Everything works about as fast as it once did.


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## frogmammy (Dec 8, 2004)

Bill, I don't think this grandkid has tried any quick draw with it...likely shot a few snakes. Felt good about giving him the gun my husband liked...couple years later, the kid gave me a laser sight for my 22 Ruger with the 12" barrel. How many grandmothers get a laser sight for Christmas?

My daughter bow hunts and talks about teaching the kids how to do it, so what with the bow, the BP rifle, and the regular rifles, they'll be able to get almost a deer a month. LOL! They eat a lot of deer.

Mon


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## Kiamichi Kid (Apr 9, 2009)

frogmammy said:


> Bill, I don't think this grandkid has tried any quick draw with it...likely shot a few snakes. Felt good about giving him the gun my husband liked...couple years later, the kid gave me a laser sight for my 22 Ruger with the 12" barrel. How many grandmothers get a laser sight for Christmas?
> 
> My daughter bow hunts and talks about teaching the kids how to do it, so what with the bow, the BP rifle, and the regular rifles, they'll be able to get almost a deer a month. LOL! They eat a lot of deer.
> 
> Mon


That's how I raised my sons....


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## Oxankle (Jun 20, 2003)

That old Navy revolver under discussion; it's single action, right?


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## IndyDave (Jul 17, 2017)

Oxankle said:


> That old Navy revolver under discussion; it's single action, right?


Correct. They were available only in single-action.


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## FarmboyBill (Aug 19, 2005)

Ive ALWAYS drawn cocked


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## Oxankle (Jun 20, 2003)

There have been some untoward events resulting from hasty waistband draws. I don't believe I would do that. In the old West it might have been worth the risk, but not in today's world.


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## IndyDave (Jul 17, 2017)

Oxankle said:


> There have been some untoward events resulting from hasty waistband draws. I don't believe I would do that. In the old West it might have been worth the risk, but not in today's world.


You reminded me of a certain inmate who had a knack for doing stupid things and getting caught. One of his misadventures included carrying one of those el cheapo .22 pistols concealed down the front of his pants. I'll give you one guess where he shot himself.


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## whiterock (Mar 26, 2003)

In the back?


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## frogmammy (Dec 8, 2004)

I'm late to the party, but yes, single action. From what I saw, could have had a cuppa between shots.

Mon


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## IndyDave (Jul 17, 2017)

whiterock said:


> In the back?


This isn't the humor thread!


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## ydderf (Dec 15, 2018)

The last out of the waistband self inflicted wound I heard about was in Arizona with his girlfriends pink revolver.


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## FarmboyBill (Aug 19, 2005)

I first taught myself to draw with it uncocked. I wouldn't put my finger on the trigger until I had it lined up where I wanted it, and then, putting my finger on the trigger then kinda held it a bit more firm. After I got good at it, I had to teach myself not to be afraid to pull it cocked. After awhile of not shooting anything I thought important, that didn't bother me anymore. The chances id ever have to step out in Front street against a pistoloro are in the zillions, as it hasn't happened in 47yrs, and I doubt it will ever happen now. That would be the only reason to go in with it cocked from belt or holster.


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## Oxankle (Jun 20, 2003)

Saw an old western a couple nights ago where the fellow fanned his six gun. When did the first double actions appear?


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## FarmboyBill (Aug 19, 2005)

Around 1860 or a bit before. Englands Adams had a double cocker as they called it, and a couple other firms here produced them here also. They were never as popular as the single actions due to the hard trigger pull needed to operate them. Colt got into the business around 74. They had what some called a birds head model that was sold either way.


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

http://rockislandauction.blogspot.com/2016/02/the-first-double-action-revolver.html


> Robert Adams was a British gunsmith and inventor born in 1809. The general mentions of him historically are for his work at the London arms factory of George & John Deane. It was under their employ, on *August 22, 1851*, that he was granted a British patent for a revolver design that functioned in a revolutionary way (no pun intended). Adams' patent covered a new design of gun that indexed the cylinder, cocked and dropped the hammer, all with a single pull of the trigger.


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## IndyDave (Jul 17, 2017)

Oxankle said:


> Saw an old western a couple nights ago where the fellow fanned his six gun. When did the first double actions appear?


Already answered, but I will add that early double-actions tended to be fragile compared with the single actions of the day.


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## FarmboyBill (Aug 19, 2005)

I drew MY answer out of my head. I DIDNT look it up. BUTT, I was somewhat wrong.


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## FarmboyBill (Aug 19, 2005)

Starr, Kerr and Savage all made DA pistols during, before the CW


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## FarmboyBill (Aug 19, 2005)

ALSO, there were several makers of bolt action rifles used in the CW, sort of lol


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## Kiamichi Kid (Apr 9, 2009)

FarmboyBill said:


> ALSO, there were several makers of bolt action rifles used in the CW, sort of lol


Were you issued one?


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## FarmboyBill (Aug 19, 2005)

LOL. nope but possibly Chuck was. I got the Kraig Jorgensen lol


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## Oxankle (Jun 20, 2003)

LOL, I got Brown Bess


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## Kiamichi Kid (Apr 9, 2009)

FarmboyBill said:


> LOL. nope but possibly Chuck was. I got the Kraig Jorgensen lol


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## Kiamichi Kid (Apr 9, 2009)

Oxankle said:


> LOL, I got Brown Bess


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## FarmboyBill (Aug 19, 2005)

Yeah right. More likely a grease gun lol


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## Oxankle (Jun 20, 2003)

Bill; how many kids even know what a grease gun was/is?


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## IndyDave (Jul 17, 2017)

FarmboyBill said:


> Yeah right. More likely a grease gun lol





Oxankle said:


> Bill; how many kids even know what a grease gun was/is?


I assume you are thinking a full auto .45 ACP and not a tool of lubrication.


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## Oxankle (Jun 20, 2003)

In fact, the grease gun was a full auto submachine gun in use during WWII. It had a (as I recall) a thirty round clip, a wire stock and DID look a bit like a grease gun. The Thomson, tommy gun, proved to have some drawbacks that made it unsuitable for military use. The grease gun was a tough customer when there were no full auto rifles.

"The M3/M3A1 is only capable of fully automatic operation; however, with its slow rate of fire, an experienced shooter can squeeze off single rounds."










And yes, it is .45 acp which I had forgotten. Article from which pic and quote above is taken says it is in use today as a tanker's weapon.


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## Kiamichi Kid (Apr 9, 2009)

Oxankle said:


> In fact, the grease gun was a full auto submachine gun in use during WWII. It had a (as I recall) a thirty round clip, a wire stock and DID look a bit like a grease gun. The Thomson, tommy gun, proved to have some drawbacks that made it unsuitable for military use. The grease gun was a tough customer when there were no full auto rifles.
> 
> "The M3/M3A1 is only capable of fully automatic operation; however, with its slow rate of fire, an experienced shooter can squeeze off single rounds."
> 
> ...


It was used all the way into the early 80's I know for a fact...Our Tankers had them in the 2nd AD.. and I had one until they issued me another weapon.


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## Redlands Okie (Nov 28, 2017)

IndyDave said:


> I assume you are thinking a full auto .45 ACP and not a tool of lubrication.


Gees, how about knowing either one.........


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## IndyDave (Jul 17, 2017)

Oxankle said:


> In fact, the grease gun was a full auto submachine gun in use during WWII. It had a (as I recall) a thirty round clip, a wire stock and DID look a bit like a grease gun. The Thomson, tommy gun, proved to have some drawbacks that made it unsuitable for military use. The grease gun was a tough customer when there were no full auto rifles.
> 
> "The M3/M3A1 is only capable of fully automatic operation; however, with its slow rate of fire, an experienced shooter can squeeze off single rounds."
> 
> ...


The Thompson really had only two problem issues: It was a finely-machined work of art which was not conducive to mass production like the stamped M3 and it was heavy, again unlike a gun stamped from sheet metal.


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## Oxankle (Jun 20, 2003)

In less than two centuries from swords and spears, muskets and black powder cannon to machines that can stamp out precision parts and make nuclear bombs.

I'm both optimistic and curious; what next?


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## IndyDave (Jul 17, 2017)

Oxankle said:


> In less than two centuries from swords and spears, muskets and black powder cannon to machines that can stamp out precision parts and make nuclear bombs.
> 
> I'm both optimistic and curious; what next?


Be careful what you ask. You might get answered.


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## FarmboyBill (Aug 19, 2005)

The MAIN thing against the Tommy was its price. They could make several GGs for the price of one T. IF I remember right the barrel of the GG wasn't rifled, was good for only a couple hundred yards, which was plenty. It had a 30 round clip, but guys taped clips together open ends out, and just switched when one was empty. The GG could over heat tho, where the T didn't for the most part. AND, it was a WHOLE lot lighter.


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## FarmboyBill (Aug 19, 2005)

From what ive seen Chuck, Im pessimistic, and Not curious in the least lol


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## IndyDave (Jul 17, 2017)

FarmboyBill said:


> The MAIN thing against the Tommy was its price. They could make several GGs for the price of one T. IF I remember right the barrel of the GG wasn't rifled, was good for only a couple hundred yards, which was plenty. It had a 30 round clip, but guys taped clips together open ends out, and just switched when one was empty. The GG could over heat tho, where the T didn't for the most part. AND, it was a WHOLE lot lighter.


The Thompson started out at $209 to the Army in 1939, down to $70 in 1942. Presumably much of this savings came from the simplification hence reduced machining costs, between the 1928 and the M1/M 1A models. At the same time, an M3 grease gun cost $15.


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## Oxankle (Jun 20, 2003)

and the PFC who carried it got something like $40 per mo and found. Seems to me that my first pay was $36 and at some point I got a huge raise to $70 and then $90. Stood in line and got cash.


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## FarmboyBill (Aug 19, 2005)

Dawgs Chuck. Ive forgotten alla that, and im so much younger.


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

Oxankle said:


> The grease gun was a tough customer when *there were no full auto rifles*.


Browning designed the BAR in 1918:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M1918_Browning_Automatic_Rifle
Later they were replaced with the M14


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## IndyDave (Jul 17, 2017)

Bearfootfarm said:


> Browning designed the BAR in 1918:
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M1918_Browning_Automatic_Rifle
> Later they were replaced with the M14


The BAR was designed as a light machine gun, not a rifle per se. The M14, on the other hand was designed as a rifle, evolved from the Tar and, and was not suitable for use as a machine gun.


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## 101pigs (Sep 18, 2018)

IndyDave said:


> The BAR was designed as a light machine gun, not a rifle per se. The M14, on the other hand was designed as a rifle, evolved from the Tar and, and was not suitable for use as a machine gun.


I was in Tanks while in the Marines. I was the BAR man along side tank in combat. Nice rifle. It did weigh a bit 19 plus lbs. M1 was the regular troop rifle at that time. Also carried a 45.


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

IndyDave said:


> The BAR was designed as a light machine gun, not a rifle per se


BAR means "Browning Automatic Rifle"
It was meant to be carried and operated by one person.


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## Oxankle (Jun 20, 2003)

Did not the BAR have an ammo bearer as well? Buddy got half his butt shot off in Korea carrying a BAR and told me that the sniper that got him killed his ammo bearer. 

Is my memory correct?


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

Oxankle said:


> Did not the BAR have an ammo bearer as well?


I think they were mainly for belt fed weapons, but everyone helped carry whatever was needed for a mission so it's possible he had one.


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## Kiamichi Kid (Apr 9, 2009)

Oxankle said:


> and the PFC who carried it got something like $40 per mo and found. Seems to me that my first pay was $36 and at some point I got a huge raise to $70 and then $90. Stood in line and got cash.


I remember reporting to the Paymaster to get paid....I also remember guarding the Paymaster and the finance facility.


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## IndyDave (Jul 17, 2017)

Bearfootfarm said:


> BAR means "Browning Automatic Rifle"
> It was meant to be carried and operated by one person.


No kidding?

It was designed to function as a bullet hose rather than a rifle in the conventional sense and did reasonably well in that capacity aside from that 20 round magazine. A drum on such a weapon heavy enough for sustained automatic fire would have been great but it never happened, dooming to BAR to being too heavy for a conventional rifle and having too small a capacity for a lmg.


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## coolrunnin (Aug 28, 2010)

IndyDave said:


> No kidding?
> 
> It was designed to function as a bullet hose rather than a rifle in the conventional sense and did reasonably well in that capacity aside from that 20 round magazine. A drum on such a weapon heavy enough for sustained automatic fire would have been great but it never happened, dooming to BAR to being too heavy for a conventional rifle and having too small a capacity for a lmg.


It was a squad support weapon, generally used by a three man fire team. Wasn't a bullet hose by any means since sustained fire caused it to overheat, and the small magazine capacity.


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## 101pigs (Sep 18, 2018)

Bearfootfarm said:


> BAR means "Browning Automatic Rifle"
> It was meant to be carried and operated by one person.


Yes. It was a very good rifle. I also took turns using 3.5 rocket launcher. Took two men to operate Bazooka. One man to load the rocket the other to hold and fire it.


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## FarmboyBill (Aug 19, 2005)

Dam BAR weighed, I think, 17lbs and was as long as a M 60.


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

IndyDave said:


> It was designed to function as a bullet hose rather than a rifle


Repeating that won't change the the reality that it was still in fact "a rifle".


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## Oxankle (Jun 20, 2003)

The BAR was out there, and it was of course full auto but the ordinary grunt had only his semi-auto Garand or the carbine (dang, I had one of hose and cannot even recall what it is!) The M1 was also made in a tanker version, shorter but essentially the same rifle as I recall. Do you fellows remember those? That little carbine had about the same ballistics as a 30-30. One day in basic training the NCOIC sorted out those of us who had some shooting experience and put us on one end of the range with ammo and told us to practice. We got to shooting at the flags, which started coming up and down pretty rapidly. A fun afternoon. He had some city boys on the other end of the range. 

I bought one of the surplus M1's years ago and let a buddy have it as I thought it way too cumbersome for a sporting rifle.


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## FarmboyBill (Aug 19, 2005)

Chuck, your talking about the M 1 Carbine. Some had a butt stock, and some didn't. The BAR that I knew was simi auto. I imagine that was to save the guard unit bullets


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## FarmboyBill (Aug 19, 2005)

Chuck, your talking about the M 1 Carbine. Some had a butt stock, and some didn't. The BAR that I knew was simi auto. I imagine that was to save the guard unit bullets


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## FarmboyBill (Aug 19, 2005)

Chuck, your talking about the M 1 Carbine. Some had a butt stock, and some didn't. The BAR that I knew was simi auto. I imagine that was to save the guard unit bullets


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## FarmboyBill (Aug 19, 2005)

damn puter. Wouldn't tell me it had posted my post. Sorry.


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## IndyDave (Jul 17, 2017)

Bearfootfarm said:


> Repeating that won't change the the reality that it was still in fact "a rifle".


Still designed to spray lead down a trench even if the fat lady was already singing when it arrived on the scene.


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

FarmboyBill said:


> Chuck, your talking about the M 1 Carbine.


A "Tanker Model" is a short version of the M1 Garand.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M1_Garand#Tanker_models

30 M1 Carbines came in semi auto and select fire (M2's)


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