# local woman caught for weed



## coup (Feb 28, 2007)

a local(wv) woman was caught with weed in her garden,fined $165. and two years unsupvised probation,,,....story www.hurherald.com


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## pheasantplucker (Feb 20, 2007)

I am one who does not smoke marijuana and I am not in favor of the legalizaton of it, however it always amazes me when cops bust someone with a few plants and they say the estimated value is (in this case) $10,000. Five plants estimated at being worth $10,000. How'd they come up with that number? Seems way too overestimated to me IMO.:umno:


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## Alice In TX/MO (May 10, 2002)

Evil weed.:smiley-laughing013:


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## fishhead (Jul 19, 2006)

Yes. Evil weed. Cant be controlled by the government and doesn't produce profits for the drug makers or campaign contributions for congress.


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## big rockpile (Feb 24, 2003)

My Grandma would save Seeds put them in Envelopes.Well one time after GK's were over she found an envelope in the yard had some seeds in it 

Well she planted them took care they grew very well.My Sister goes over there.Grandma says I have some plants that are Big but aren't blooming  Sis goes out looks at them  :shocked: Grandma that is Marijuana.

This was in Town right next to the City Park.

big rockpile


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## rean (Nov 18, 2008)

One of my smart aleck cousins gave my Grandmother a marijuana plant to grow. Told her it was a Boston Fern. lol!


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## CarolynRenee (Jan 30, 2008)

Of couse the police have to overestimate the "value" of everything they bust in order to try & justify the insane amount of money (tax dollars) spent on this absurd war on drugs. And it's not like the police actually got $10K to put towards this "war". But it's good PR for those people who don't know any better. 

I will never, never, EVER understand why we allow government to outlaw a natural plant (or a myriad of other things that is absolutely NONE of their business), yet promote other drugs that are just as bad, or worse, than natural products.


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## Guest (Aug 5, 2010)

One of my pals grows some every year. I was over there one day, he got scared because they were clear-cutting next to him, and pulled up his 2 plants. They were about 4 1/2 ft high, real bushy looking. He hung them up and dried them out, all that stuff. when it was all over and done, he had 3 ounces of pot which he claimed was worth $360 dollars. I told him, If they'd caught you with those 2 plants, it would have been worth $20,000!!. LOL


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## FarmboyBill (Aug 19, 2005)

er right CR. U listen on tv about alla the drugs they got to cure this and that, or just to allieviate a illness, The side effects are 10 times worse than the sickness theyre supposed to cure sometimes,


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## Ravenlost (Jul 20, 2004)

CarolynRenee said:


> Of couse the police have to overestimate the "value" of everything they bust in order to try & justify the insane amount of money (tax dollars) spent on this absurd war on drugs. And it's not like the police actually got $10K to put towards this "war". But it's good PR for those people who don't know any better.
> 
> I will never, never, EVER understand why we allow government to outlaw a natural plant (or a myriad of other things that is absolutely NONE of their business), yet promote other drugs that are just as bad, or worse, than natural products.


I couldn't agree more! Well said!


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## blufford (Nov 23, 2004)

coup said:


> a local(wv) woman was caught with weed in her garden,fined $165. and two years unsupvised probation,,,....story www.hurherald.com



What a great link. Go to the People, Humour and History section for dozens of historic storys and pictures from Calhoun County, WV. 

Start with this story. Then take the People, Humour and History link back to the story index page.

LYNCH RECALLS GREAT DIRIGIBLE CRASH - Shenandoah Goes Down In 1925
http://www.hurherald.com/cgi-bin/db_scripts/articles?Action=user_view&db=hurheral_articles&id=36124


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## edcopp (Oct 9, 2004)

Someone with a reasonable level of intelligence could do me a great service by explaining this "Unsupervised Probation" thing. How does that work?


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## Old Vet (Oct 15, 2006)

What they are doing is to get the growers out of the loop because it drives the price down.


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## Nature_Lover (Feb 6, 2005)

Probably she can't leave the country (or the county?) and they will subject her garden to frequent flyovers looking for volunteer contraband. 

She's 59 years old. Part of the 60's free spirit Pepsi generation.
Wonder how many years she's been getting away with this.


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## tailwagging (Jan 6, 2005)

It is not illegal. It is illegal to have it without a tax stamp. you can't get a tax stamp with out having some first BUT if you have it first without the stamp then you have it illegally and you are braking the law, so then can't get the stamp.


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## pancho (Oct 23, 2006)

fishhead said:


> Yes. Evil weed. Cant be controlled by the government and doesn't produce profits for the drug makers or campaign contributions for congress.


Do you really think some campaign contributions do not come from the growers of the evil weed? You should read a little about how much and who Mexico drug cartels have been paying for years.


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## Jim-mi (May 15, 2002)

A 'city' 50 miles away is currently going round and round about how many plants are legal . . . .yap yap yap yap........
Mich has the "medical" MJ law . . .which nobody knows how to interept.


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## sisterpine (May 9, 2004)

Hi all, unsupervised probation simply is the judge telling the convicted that they had better not get into any more legal trouble for two years or the probation may be revoked and jail time may be instituted.


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## sisterpine (May 9, 2004)

Oops forgot to add that I just returned with DH from Illinois where they seem to be growing some kind of hemp or weed along the edges of their corn fields. DH brought me a leaf and it smelled and tasted like cannabis? sis


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## hippygirl (Apr 3, 2010)

tailwagging said:


> It is not illegal. It is illegal to have it without a tax stamp. you can't get a tax stamp with out having some first BUT if you have it first without the stamp then you have it illegally and you are braking the law, so then can't get the stamp.


I watched a doc on A&E a while back (might have been the Discovery Channel) where they explained this little gem of a law...absurd!

Like I've said time and again, even though I don't use it, I say legalize it and be done with it.


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## mickm (Jul 23, 2010)

I don't smoke it anymore, but there was a time I did. I have kids now and it is illegal

MAry jane being illegal while booze is legal is about money, and money only.

there is a shocker.


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## Kstornado11 (Mar 17, 2006)

It always amazes me when this subject comes up & I see how many people are FOR legalization, from all walks of life, yet it is still illegal! 
I have a good friend since grade school who has MS & none of the drugs the doctors prescribe are helping. A friend of hers helps her out w/ a little mj from time to time, & she says it really seems to help her w/ the pain & etc. She never smoked in her life (except a few puffs in high school, ) but now really wishes she lived where it was legal. So sad that the one thing that really helps her w/ this disease, is something she could easily grow in her own back yard, but isn't allowed to.


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## mickm (Jul 23, 2010)

Well I won't get in to it here, cuz it would be considered political, but the medical industry is about making money, not helping people.

In this country, money talks.


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## rean (Nov 18, 2008)

Here in Iowa, when one is busted for drugs, they also get fined for not having a "drug tax stamp."


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## hippygirl (Apr 3, 2010)

Kstornado11 said:


> It always amazes me when this subject comes up & I see how many people are FOR legalization, from all walks of life, yet it is still illegal!
> I have a good friend since grade school who has MS & none of the drugs the doctors prescribe are helping. A friend of hers helps her out w/ a little mj from time to time, & she says it really seems to help her w/ the pain & etc. She never smoked in her life (except a few puffs in high school, ) but now really wishes she lived where it was legal. So sad that the one thing that really helps her w/ this disease, is something she could easily grow in her own back yard, but isn't allowed to.


To me, regardless of whether it's being used for medicinal purposes OR recreational purposes is irrelevant. If alcohol is legal, marijuana should be as well...to include growing your own.

I bet if suddenly it became legal to grow it for your own use without fear of prosecution, you'd hear nothing short of a sonic BOOM in the backyard gardening business!


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## Txrider (Jun 25, 2010)

hippygirl said:


> To me, regardless of whether it's being used for medicinal purposes OR recreational purposes is irrelevant. If alcohol is legal, marijuana should be as well...to include growing your own.
> 
> I bet if suddenly it became legal to grow it for your own use without fear of prosecution, you'd hear nothing short of a sonic BOOM in the backyard gardening business!


I doubt there would be a boom. Anyone who wants to use it already does mainly. And like veggies, everyone eats them, how many take the trouble to grow them?

Most would buy pot in a pack like cigarettes, or in a can like pipe tobacco, at the local liquor store.

In my view why should we prohibit any substance? What right of authority does my fellow man, my society, have to tell me what I can or cannot do to my own body and brain? Pursuit of happiness I believe is the term.

This is to me where progressive ideology hits serious problems, the more society creates programs to help members of society, welfare, health care, whatever.. The more taxes are taken from people so a central government can disperse them for "social good".. The more it is seen that since society pays for your welfare, society has a right to dictate all your choices in life.

We're at point now where congress is arguing today they have authority to force you to buy a product from a private company, to regulate the act of you doing nothing, and are talking about taxes on soda pop for crying out loud.

As for attitudes on legalization, even my parents, Dad just turned 80 this year, who were always rabidly anti pot, would vote to legalize now and talk about it openly..


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## sirquack (Feb 18, 2009)

SisterPine, what you came across is ditch weed. It is essentially naturally occuring hemp. It grows just about everywhere here in Iowa. Illegal to possess, but you can see it along just about every corn field or creek bottom in the state. 
I am for the legalization of it, but not in the way states like California has done it. For MS, Cancer, HIV/AIDS I am all for it. But for glaucoma and what ever other BS ailment the pot heads create for themselves to be able to smoke it legally, no way. 
As to naturally people who say it should be illegal to ban a natural plant, if it was not something that had impairment issues, I would agree. I have however seen too many pot heads that were in no condition to drive, work or interact with the general public while on their herb.


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## Guest (Aug 6, 2010)

I'd much rather deal with pot heads than drunks.


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## Patt (May 18, 2003)

I think it should be legal too. I think if they put forward a bill to legalise it it would pass easily today.


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## Deb862 (Jun 22, 2005)

zong said:


> I'd much rather deal with pot heads than drunks.


 Amen! I've never in my whole life seen someone stoned do anything violent unlike someone who is drunk. I think it should be in the same category as alcohol though legally...don't smoke and drive


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## DJ in WA (Jan 28, 2005)

Kstornado11 said:


> It always amazes me when this subject comes up & I see how many people are FOR legalization, from all walks of life, yet it is still illegal!


That was my thought also. I don't know anyone who thinks it should be illegal, yet it still is. Obviously it's money that is keeping the drug war going. Drug dealers obviously would be out of business if weed was legal and freely available. When it's illegal, prices go up, and only criminals will participate. Much crime is a result of drug turf wars. After alcohol prohibition ended, homicides dropped greatly.


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## 65284 (Sep 17, 2003)

CarolynRenee said:


> Of couse the police have to overestimate the "value" of everything they bust in order to try & justify the insane amount of money (tax dollars) spent on this absurd war on drugs. And it's not like the police actually got $10K to put towards this "war". But it's good PR for those people who don't know any better.
> 
> I will never, never, EVER understand why we allow government to outlaw a natural plant (or a myriad of other things that is absolutely NONE of their business), yet promote other drugs that are just as bad, or worse, than natural products.



Opium Poppy and Coca are both "natural plants" how do you feel about their use?


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## pancho (Oct 23, 2006)

It can be illegal or legal. It matters little to me. I will not work or be around a person that smokes it. Seen to many things happen to those who smoke and the innocent people near them.

One of the first times in my early life I was around some people who smoked it. This was many years ago. There was still a draft then. 2 people I know didn't want to be drafted so during a smoke haze they came up with this brillant idea. They would shoot their trigger finger off. A little more smoke and they decided they could not shoot their own finger off. One of the genuises decided they could shoot each others finger off. After a few more tokes they decided to try this brillant idea. Every time the one would get a good bead on his friend's trigger finger he would jerk it back.
A few puffs later the smarter one came up with the solution. One would stand around the corner of the house and stick his finger out around the corner. That way he couldn't see when his friend took aim at his trigger finger. Amost anybody can see where this would lead but they thought they were very brilliant. The person with the gun was having a hard time sighting in on the finger. About the time he had a good shot his friend withdrew his finger and looked around the corner to see what was taking so long.
Neither one had to worry about the draft.


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## Tracy Rimmer (May 9, 2002)

pancho said:


> It can be illegal or legal. It matters little to me. I will not work or be around a person that smokes it. Seen to many things happen to those who smoke and the innocent people near them.
> 
> One of the first times in my early life I was around some people who smoked it. This was many years ago. There was still a draft then. 2 people I know didn't want to be drafted so during a smoke haze they came up with this brillant idea. They would shoot their trigger finger off. A little more smoke and they decided they could not shoot their own finger off. One of the genuises decided they could shoot each others finger off. After a few more tokes they decided to try this brillant idea. Every time the one would get a good bead on his friend's trigger finger he would jerk it back.
> A few puffs later the smarter one came up with the solution. One would stand around the corner of the house and stick his finger out around the corner. That way he couldn't see when his friend took aim at his trigger finger. Amost anybody can see where this would lead but they thought they were very brilliant. The person with the gun was having a hard time sighting in on the finger. About the time he had a good shot his friend withdrew his finger and looked around the corner to see what was taking so long.
> Neither one had to worry about the draft.


I would call this more "natural selection" or "culling the herd" than I would pot-induced stupidity. Anyone who would think something that stupid up while stoned, is capable of equal idiocy while sober. Methinks that the young men in question were probably not the sharpest knives in the drawer to begin with.

As for your refusing to work with anyone who smokes.... you might be surprised how many folks you've worked with who "do" who you had no idea about.


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## pancho (Oct 23, 2006)

Tracy Rimmer said:


> I would call this more "natural selection" or "culling the herd" than I would pot-induced stupidity. Anyone who would think something that stupid up while stoned, is capable of equal idiocy while sober. Methinks that the young men in question were probably not the sharpest knives in the drawer to begin with.
> 
> As for your refusing to work with anyone who smokes.... you might be surprised how many folks you've worked with who "do" who you had no idea about.


You might be surprised how often we are drug tested. I do not work with a large number of people. At the max 4 people and that is just a third of my work time. The rest, two thirds , of the time I work alone. In my job we cannot take the chance of having a person working under the influence of drugs.


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## texican (Oct 4, 2003)

pheasantplucker said:


> I am one who does not smoke marijuana and I am not in favor of the legalizaton of it, however it always amazes me when cops bust someone with a few plants and they say the estimated value is (in this case) $10,000. Five plants estimated at being worth $10,000. How'd they come up with that number? Seems way too overestimated to me IMO.:umno:


Saw a program a few weeks back, on legalizing it... at the 'dispensaries', weed was going in excess of 500$/ounce... and the owner said she wasn't making any money.

It doesn't take much of a huge weed to add up to 10K, at 500/ounce.

Legalized, it wouldn't cost more than a pack of cigarettes.


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## mickm (Jul 23, 2010)

pancho said:


> It can be illegal or legal. It matters little to me. I will not work or be around a person that smokes it. Seen to many things happen to those who smoke and the innocent people near them.
> 
> One of the first times in my early life I was around some people who smoked it. This was many years ago. There was still a draft then. 2 people I know didn't want to be drafted so during a smoke haze they came up with this brillant idea. They would shoot their trigger finger off. A little more smoke and they decided they could not shoot their own finger off. One of the genuises decided they could shoot each others finger off. After a few more tokes they decided to try this brillant idea. Every time the one would get a good bead on his friend's trigger finger he would jerk it back.
> A few puffs later the smarter one came up with the solution. One would stand around the corner of the house and stick his finger out around the corner. That way he couldn't see when his friend took aim at his trigger finger. Amost anybody can see where this would lead but they thought they were very brilliant. The person with the gun was having a hard time sighting in on the finger. About the time he had a good shot his friend withdrew his finger and looked around the corner to see what was taking so long.
> Neither one had to worry about the draft.



No offense, but for every story you tell me about someone doing something stupid on pot, I could tell you ten about stupid things people do on alcohol.

People die every day because of booze, and it's legal.

I haven't smoked pot in 20 years, and wouldn't now if it was legal. I just don't do that kinda stuff. It is a very useful drug though, and a lot of good things could be done with it. I don't really care either way, it doesn't effect me.


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## featherboa (Aug 6, 2010)

65284 said:


> Opium Poppy and Coca are both "natural plants" how do you feel about their use?


It's probably not a good idea for most people, but I wouldn't hire armed, trigger happy men* to bust into a suspected user's house in the middle of the night to kidnap said user and kill his dogs, which is what happens 100 times a day in these united states. 


*The police


This is my first post. Sorry if it's too political. Any mention of the drug war these days sends me foaming at the mouth

http://reason.com/blog/2010/05/05/video-of-swat-raid-on-missouri


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## Txrider (Jun 25, 2010)

65284 said:


> Opium Poppy and Coca are both "natural plants" how do you feel about their use?


Their use is usually pretty bad for the person using them.

But prohibiting them is what drives a major black market, crime, and killing.

They used to all be legal, were legal for thousands of years. The real problems started when we made them illegal. The same amount of people use them anyway, it just fills the prisons and feeds the gangs and cartels with billions in money to do what gangs and cartels do..

You cannot regulate what you prohibit, and the side effects of prohibition are worse than effects of the drug.


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## hippygirl (Apr 3, 2010)

Txrider said:


> Their use is usually pretty bad for the person using them.
> 
> *But prohibiting them is what drives a major black market, crime, and killing*.
> 
> ...


Agreed!


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## SirDude (May 30, 2010)

pancho said:


> It can be illegal or legal. It matters little to me. I will not work or be around a person that smokes it. Seen to many things happen to those who smoke and the innocent people near them.
> 
> One of the first times in my early life I was around some people who smoked it. This was many years ago. There was still a draft then. 2 people I know didn't want to be drafted so during a smoke haze they came up with this brillant idea. They would shoot their trigger finger off. A little more smoke and they decided they could not shoot their own finger off. One of the genuises decided they could shoot each others finger off. After a few more tokes they decided to try this brillant idea. Every time the one would get a good bead on his friend's trigger finger he would jerk it back.
> A few puffs later the smarter one came up with the solution. One would stand around the corner of the house and stick his finger out around the corner. That way he couldn't see when his friend took aim at his trigger finger. Amost anybody can see where this would lead but they thought they were very brilliant. The person with the gun was having a hard time sighting in on the finger. About the time he had a good shot his friend withdrew his finger and looked around the corner to see what was taking so long.
> Neither one had to worry about the draft.


Pancho, not trying to offend you if either of those two people were your "Friends", but, if they were dumb enough to come up with that plan, it really sounds like they were dumb long before smoking some weed. 

I could ramble on and on about the many types of people that I either personally know or know about who use it and none of the people that would show up on my list are not the stereotypical person most would peg as a stoner, etc. Most have high degrees, which brings me to the fact that Boulder, CO has been known for years as a Hippie fest of a town, (I know they're trying to clean up their image, blah blah blah) but yet some of those hippies or stoners are some of the brilliant mined people that run or teach at the Colleges / Universities in that town. The same schools that year after year turn out even more brilliant mined professionals. (who more then likely smoked weed while in college) 

I personally don't care for it, but I say legalize it and then do a couple of things with it. 

1) Tax the living day-lights out of it, so it will only change the direction of the flow of money to corp crooks and away from the street gangs. 

2) Have a legal set price for it and make it so cheap that the fools who are going to smoke it anyway won't have to earn much to buy it. Which then lowers the need for any of them to rob a store, etc to pay for their habit. 

3) List it on the stock exchange and let people profit from it, like many other things. 

4) Keep doing what they already have in place, and that's, make all the users have an ID card so big brother can keep track of them. 

I've been around the stuff since I was kid, pre-teen to be more precise, so I don't believe in the argument that if it's legalized then kids will get it and get hooked or some BS like that. It's already here, way more then most people know, and in my opinion, it's safer then booze or even cigarette. 

In the 30 years I've been exposed to it / the people who smoke it, I have never need seen anyone get addicted to it, or needed it so bad that they did anything close to what an Alcoholic would do. Plus, I have never seen a person be hyper while high! I've known "hyper" people or people with ADHD smoke it to clam down. So I say legalize it and be done with it. 

It's not that far off from going legal, the population is shifting and soon the scales will tip to the side of people who use it or are like me, who say legalize it, because they see that it's not that big of a deal.

One last point, I say legalize it as fast as possible, so we can "weed out" (pun intended) those people from the work-force. Even with it being "state legal" in 15 states right now, employers in those states still perform drug tests and make it clear that they won't hire anyone who uses it. And before anyone says it's going to put a bunch of people on SS Disability, Welfare, etc, I say no it's not, because the people who "need" MMJ, are more then likely already getting those types of benefits. If they are not, then they will have to choose between getting high and working for a low wage employer who doesn't drug test, or making better money and not getting high. 

The whole argument for legalizing MMJ is to help people "function" like the rest of society. So all the government has to do is to right into the laws that if you choose to use it, it's because it will help you function so you can be a productive citizen. Make it so they can't have their cake and eat it too. That shouldn't be too hard for our Government to do.


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## pancho (Oct 23, 2006)

mickm said:


> No offense, but for every story you tell me about someone doing something stupid on pot, I could tell you ten about stupid things people do on alcohol.
> 
> People die every day because of booze, and it's legal.
> 
> I haven't smoked pot in 20 years, and wouldn't now if it was legal. I just don't do that kinda stuff. It is a very useful drug though, and a lot of good things could be done with it. I don't really care either way, it doesn't effect me.


No argument from me there.

There is a lot of difference in medical marijuana and the common back yard variety. Comparing the two is about the same as comparing bonded whiskey with moonshine. There is such a thing as good moonshine, they tell me, but who can tell just by looking at it? Same as home grown weed, there might be some consistant weed but you can't tell by looking.
Some people will remember the people poisoned by moonshine years ago and the additives used in some of it. Same goes for local grown weed.


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## pancho (Oct 23, 2006)

featherboa said:


> It's probably not a good idea for most people, but I wouldn't hire armed, trigger happy men* to bust into a suspected user's house in the middle of the night to kidnap said user and kill his dogs, which is what happens 100 times a day in these united states.
> 
> 
> *The police
> ...


Welcome to the forum. We always need another opinion. Doesn't matter what your opinion is, you will find some that agree and some that disagree.
Feel free to state your opinion.


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## pancho (Oct 23, 2006)

SirDude said:


> Pancho, not trying to offend you if either of those two people were your "Friends", but, if they were dumb enough to come up with that plan, it really sounds like they were dumb long before smoking some weed.
> 
> 
> 1) Tax the living day-lights out of it, so it will only change the direction of the flow of money to corp crooks and away from the street gangs.
> ...


No offence taken. I agree, they were not the top of the class. Hate to admit but they were my relatives.

To make it cheap there would have to be gov. subsidies. I live near the largest legal marijuana experimental growing farm in the U.S. It is not cheap to grow and test. Without testing you cannot know the strenght. Without knowing about the quality you can't know the effects. The home grown variety varies too much.

If you tax the living daylights out of it there will be as many of those who continue to grow, sell, import as we have now. Why pay the taxes?
If we do the tests needed to legalize it the price will not be cheap. If the price isn't cheap people won't buy the legal kind. If we make the price low we will have to have some gov. program to help those who grow the stuff.

I have seen very few hyper pot smokers. I have seen some addicted. It ruined their life and everyone around or who cared for them.


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## 65284 (Sep 17, 2003)

pancho said:


> No offence taken. I agree, they were not the top of the class. Hate to admit but they were my relatives.
> 
> To make it cheap there would have to be gov. subsidies. I live near the largest legal marijuana experimental growing farm in the U.S. It is not cheap to grow and test. Without testing you cannot know the strenght. Without knowing about the quality you can't know the effects. The home grown variety varies too much.
> 
> ...





Bingo, you have nailed it. Given our government's love of taxes they would be so high there would still be a thriving market in untaxed product. How would anyone differentiate between legal, illegally cultivated and plain old ditch weed? Junkies will buy the cheapest stuff available, legal or otherwise. Govt. subsidized production of legal weed would be every pot head's dream come true.

Alcohol is a good example, regulated and heavily taxed. Net result, there is huge production of illegal moonshine which the BATF spends tons of money and manpower to stamp out.

If the "legalize it" crowd had their way would there be any restrictions at all, would they make it available to anyone that wanted to indulge, how 10 year olds?

Or maybe the legalizers wouldn't mind a bunch of kiddies driftin' and dreamin' their way down the sidewalk to grade school every morning. Is some research needed? Let's see if a kid that's high has enhanced learning capabilities and if so make a few tokes mandatory before class.

I guarantee if a minimum age limit for use was set, as there is with alcohol, the younger set would want in on the action, and find a way to make it happen. But wait! That would be illegal and there would be still a war on untaxed and juvenile use of drugs. And that leads right back to where this conversation started.


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## katlupe (Nov 15, 2004)

I have been reading a book sent to me by the author to review it on my blog, it is about the "off-the-grid movement" (that's what he calls it not me). Many of the people interviewed out west are pot growers. He mentions it through out the book and tells of them harvesting their fields. Supposedly they are allowed to grow so much for medical reasons, and if someone who needs it and can't grow it themselves, then these pot growers can grow so much for them too. Legally. 

katlupe


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## Txrider (Jun 25, 2010)

65284 said:


> Bingo, you have nailed it. Given our government's love of taxes they would be so high there would still be a thriving market in untaxed product. How would anyone differentiate between legal, illegally cultivated and plain old ditch weed? Junkies will buy the cheapest stuff available, legal or otherwise. Govt. subsidized production of legal weed would be every pot head's dream come true.


Because legal weed would likely be in a package with a tax stamp on it, just like legal cigarettes and booze are. For the most part people are lazy and want convenience, and would buy it in packs at a store.



> Alcohol is a good example, regulated and heavily taxed. Net result, there is huge production of illegal moonshine which the BATF spends tons of money and manpower to stamp out.


You cannot be serious. Alcohol is a great example. Illegal alcohol is not a serious problem these days. When it was under prohibition it was a very serious problem nationwide, poison whiskey was rampant everywhere, smugglers and gangs like Al Capone's were making borders and inner cities into war zones, just like drug prohibition is doing now. Only difference is people were not so brainwashed and recognized the disastrous harm prohibition was doing. Why do you think we dropped alcohol prohibition?



> If the "legalize it" crowd had their way would there be any restrictions at all, would they make it available to anyone that wanted to indulge, how 10 year olds?
> 
> Or maybe the legalizers wouldn't mind a bunch of kiddies driftin' and dreamin' their way down the sidewalk to grade school every morning. Is some research needed? Let's see if a kid that's high has enhanced learning capabilities and if so make a few tokes mandatory before class.


I hate to tell you but pot is easier to get at a school than anywhere else, has been for 30 years, it's easier for a kid to get than beer. Do you think the guys selling pot in the black market under this prohibition checks ID? Legalization would make it harder for kids to get. If it was legal they would have something to lose by selling to kids, like a liquor store has something to lose if they sell to a kid, under prohibition they have nothing more to lose selling to kids than they do selling to adults.



> I guarantee if a minimum age limit for use was set, as there is with alcohol, the younger set would want in on the action, and find a way to make it happen. But wait! That would be illegal and there would be still a war on untaxed and juvenile use of drugs. And that leads right back to where this conversation started.


Just like there is a war on untaxed and juvenile use of alcohol? Yeah real big problem there in comparison to the drug war's effects of making us the most imprisoned population on earth, 100 billion spent a year, and 300 billion in cash going directly into organized crime.

Any kid who wants pot can get it now, it would actually be harder for kids to get it if was sold at places like liquor stores where ID was checked. That's where most people would buy it, other than those who decided to grow it themselves.

At any rate it would cut the drug cartels off at the knees, as well as the inner city gangs, it would cut the wall street backed private for profit prison industry at the knees, and we could spend a fraction of the 100 billion we spend on the war on drugs for education about drugs, and for treatment, and have a much more humane system for less cost to to taxpayers.

Remember these drugs used to all be legal, even coke and heroin, the country didn't collapse, dogs and cats didn't rain from the sky. And more importantly giant drug cartels didn't overthrow governments, and street gangs didn't shoot up our inner cities. Prohibition and monstrous black markets spawned that.

Pot is already the #1 cash crop in 2-3 states, I ask again.. After 30 years.. Just like we ask about Afghanistan and the war there....

What are the victory conditions for the war on drugs? This war on our own citizens we have escalated for 30 years.

Is there a mission goal? What is the end goal we are trying to achieve? Is it realistic?

Or is this just a perpetual war with no end, that is slowly militarizing our police into mask wearing, machine gun toting gestapo forces, kicking down doors in the dead of night with no knock warrants? A perpetual war against our own people that has locked up so many people that Wall street is now funding prisons as a growth industry, and we now imprison more of our people than any country on the planet.. Home of the free indeed...


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## ||Downhome|| (Jan 12, 2009)

you folks need to look at the difference between legalize and decriminalize.

decriminalize I'm good with, legalize and you just take it from one group of criminal and give it to another.


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## Txrider (Jun 25, 2010)

||Downhome|| said:


> you folks need to look at the difference between legalize and decriminalize.
> 
> decriminalize I'm good with, legalize and you just take it from one group of criminal and give it to another.


Well for me it's whatever makes arrests go away for possession, and sets up a legal production and sale scheme so organized crime isn't getting as much cash as we send to the saudis for oil every year.


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## Rick (May 10, 2002)

pancho said:


> You might be surprised how often we are drug tested. I do not work with a large number of people. At the max 4 people and that is just a third of my work time. The rest, two thirds , of the time I work alone. In my job we cannot take the chance of having a person working under the influence of drugs.



Can you take the chance of having a person woking under the influece of painkilers and other depressants, benadryl and sudafed acceptable in your workplace?


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## pancho (Oct 23, 2006)

Rick said:


> Can you take the chance of having a person woking under the influece of painkilers and other depressants, benadryl and sudafed acceptable in your workplace?


No, we try to not take chances with people's lives. We have one man working with us that was on prescription pain killers before coming to work. He had to get off them before he was hired. Aspirin is about the extent of what we take.


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## Truckinguy (Mar 8, 2008)

> 1) Tax the living day-lights out of it, so it will only change the direction of the flow of money to corp crooks and away from the street gangs.
> 
> 2) Have a legal set price for it and make it so cheap that the fools who are going to smoke it anyway won't have to earn much to buy it. Which then lowers the need for any of them to rob a store, etc to pay for their habit.


High taxes are one of the reasons a black market exists in many areas. You wouldn't be solving any problems, just creating a different kind. If you have government subsidies it just means those of us who don't smoke will be paying for those that do to have it cheaper.

Legalize it and be done with it. Create some sort of health and safety guidelines like there are for any other product on the market. Competition will ensure there is a good product on the market for a fair price. The packages can be labelled with the THC% and any other qualities the seller would want the buyer to know. Brands would appear and gain reputations, good or bad. Someone would likely start growing "organic" eventually....

Everyone I know who wants to smoke pot already does so I don't think legalizing it would make a huge difference in useage.

We don't have a large illegal alcohol problem because people who buy alcohol usually have a brand preference which they've tried and liked and the brand carries a reputation for quality (or lack of!). It's difficult to make a good 12 year old scotch in your basement!


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## Rick (May 10, 2002)

pancho said:


> No, we try to not take chances with people's lives. We have one man working with us that was on prescription pain killers before coming to work. He had to get off them before he was hired. Aspirin is about the extent of what we take.


Then your postition is fair in my eyes.
I am curious about the type of work it is. I reaize you may not want to describe it.
My impresion is you are as much at risk as myself and family when I use my chainsaw, brushhog 
or other power equipment. 
Rule is : no beer or allergy medicine at all.


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## pancho (Oct 23, 2006)

Rick said:


> Then your postition is fair in my eyes.
> I am curious about the type of work it is. I reaize you may not want to describe it.
> My impresion is you are as much at risk as myself and family when I use my chainsaw, brushhog
> or other power equipment.
> Rule is : no beer or allergy medicine at all.


We are at much more risk at work than when I am at home using farm machinery. The reasons for the rules are not only for our safety only but for the safety of others.


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## SirDude (May 30, 2010)

Txrider said most of what I was going to say. 

I don't know anyone other then some Italian families back in IL making alcohol, more like Wine. And that's because they use to make it back in Italy, and it's the way they like it. 

People are lazy, and that is even more true for a lot of the folks smoking weed. Most of them don't grow it themselves now, and won't even if it's legal. Just like what people have said about growing your own food. 

The statement about a school kid being able to buy weed and other drugs easier then buying / getting their hands on Beer is very true. Since I was in the 6th grade I knew at pretty much any given day/time I could buy weed within a couple of hours of wanting it. Getting alcohol was more like planning a wedding party, you need to plan out how much you needed a week or two in advance, then you had to talk & pay someone's older brother into driving up to WI (I grew up in Chicago) where the legal age at the time was 19 for buying alcohol, and have them buy it and bring it back home. That extra hassle cost more then it was really worth. 

I hear a statement over and over about most things that are illegal, or that you don't want someone to have. Most people say something like "the fastest way to get a kid to want to eat vegetables is to tell them they can't have them...." I think this rings true with most people, not just kids. Take the excitement away from doing something illegal and then it won't be "cool and exciting" and only the people who truly want to use it will. 

As for the taxing, regulating, etc. Although I mentioned my feelings about taxing it, it really doesn't matter what I think, the government is going to do what they want to do when it comes time to legalize this or anything else. I don't like to be told what to do or have the government control my every move, but I feel as long as they can take the power out of the hands of the gangs, so what if the corporate crooks get to make a profit. 

As for the tax payers covering the cost of people who abuse MJ, we could debate that for months or years. I don't drink or smoke, I don't gamble, I don't have any kids, so I don't need to use the school systems, so why should this be any different? Legalize it, and make the industry cover the cost of people who abuse it. The gaming industry makes so much money from casinos that it's worth the price to pay for the ones who have a problem. There's plenty of information about how much money the MJ industry brings to the cartels, gangs, etc, so redirect that money back into the US and to businesses. At least they would pay income tax on the billions earned every year.


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## SirDude (May 30, 2010)

pancho said:


> We are at much more risk at work than when I am at home using farm machinery. * The reasons for the rules are not only for our safety only but for the safety of others*.



I think this is a great statement in general. Not that I want to see a whole nation of people who worry too much about the "what if...", but if more people just tuned into their common sense and thought a little more about their actions, there would be less need for other's to govern or police us. 

Something as simple as getting a common cold can have life altering effects on a lot of people's lives. I use the common cold as an example because for the last three days I have been sick and heavily medicated. I would be a fool to get behind the wheel of a car right now, or to even use a sharp knife. But yet a lot of people just through that common sense out the window and say "well I have to go to work" or "I'm only driving down the street". Me personally, I would rather be fired from a job for being responsible (taking a day off when sick), then to hurt someone or myself because I tried making it into work. 

Pancho, I'm glad to see your employer has tougher rules.


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## crispin (Jun 30, 2010)

SirDude said:


> Txrider said most of what I was going to say.
> 
> I don't know anyone other then some Italian families back in IL making alcohol, more like Wine. And that's because they use to make it back in Italy, and it's the way they like it.
> 
> ...


+1 Very well said


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## pancho (Oct 23, 2006)

SirDude said:


> Pancho, I'm glad to see your employer has tougher rules.


Thanks. They are not tough rules for me as I don't use anything.
The company has other workers that they are not that strict on. We hardly ever see them.
It was an agreement we signed when we went to work for them. Not a bad job, I really like it.


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## Ken Scharabok (May 11, 2002)

On the roadside marajuana the potentcy of it, from what I heard, is you would have to smoke it until you got a headache to get any 'guzz'. As I recall both Presidents Washington and Jefferson were growing it on their plantation for the hemp rope and fiber industry.

When I first went into the Navy (64) I head the expression "Someone was smoking rope". Found there is a bit to truch to the story of sailors who were going on on a long (multi-year) voyage would bring along lengths of untreated hepe rope as fall-back tobacco.

I have been curious as to how they determine the 'street value' of certain recreational drugs. Do they work from the street value backward or from the initial wholesaliing forward.

I,ve also head the 'profit' from a single large marijuana plant in TN is worth more than an acre of corn or soybeans.

I heard the local sherrif speak to a community group. He said at the moment their biggest concern was meth being made the pop-bottle way. However, he noted these were the small time local dealers. In Mexico they can legally import the ingrediants by the ton.


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## Jenn (Nov 9, 2004)

Pancho unless the marijuana is sprayed with paraquat or mixed with poison hemlock or jimson weed the only problem with ungraded weed is that the smoker won't know how high he'll get from a certain amount. That might lead to brand loyalty and a payoff in higher price to the firms which can guarantee a uniform product.

I am back at work (at the VA) and have already seen folks wanting prescription pain medications and have many more on the schedule ahead for same. Especially with some of these folks- pain being worse for them because of stress like PTSD or IED caused deformities etc- marijuana IMPO would be a better addition to their regimen than increasing their opiates. 

Just got the memo that I can't Rx mj for anyone and have heard (but not clear in my official guidance) that even those legally on it will be arrested for bringing it on to VA campuses since it is federally illegal. Also that if my FL patients getting it legally test positive for it we should stop giving them any opiates- but if they go to a FL VA they are alright. Sounds like a law just passed changing that but I will hope AL legalizes it soon (JK, I know they never will- if only it could replace tobacco production here!) and will tell my chronic pain patients who are FL residents to switch VAs.


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## pancho (Oct 23, 2006)

Jenn said:


> Pancho unless the marijuana is sprayed with paraquat or mixed with poison hemlock or jimson weed the only problem with ungraded weed is that the smoker won't know how high he'll get from a certain amount. That might lead to brand loyalty and a payoff in higher price to the firms which can guarantee a uniform product.


If you are a recreational user I guess it doesn't matter as much. You just might have to smake more to get the same high. Of course there would be some that would add a secret ingredient to get that brand loyalty. The to compete the next one would need a secret ingredient better than the first secret ingredient. Might get sort of hard to decide which secret ingredient would be best.

Medical mj is different. If they are really using it for medical reasons home grown would be a flip of a coin. Just like taking a bc for a headache. If the neighbor down the street was making it you could not be sure of what you are taking or the amount you need to take.

Just my opinion but I don't quite believe in medical mj. I think the majority who want to use medical mj do not have any medical problem at all. Those with a true medical problem would already be on medication.


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## KySam (Dec 1, 2009)

Well its about that time of year for the state police and national guard to start searching out weed crops here in the Bluegrass state.

More will go undiscovered than found by the green teams. Theres alot of pot grown in Kentucky. Quite a few families depend on it for supporting thier families for the year.

Legalize yes but only pot. Meth and prescription pills are the burden for Kentucky at this time. The state is trying to close down the pill pipeline
from Kentucky to Florida. 

School age kids can get drugs easy most steal thier parents prescription medicine. 

A homegrown pot plant can be worth $1800 to $2400 per plant.
Thats alot of money for just growing a plant.


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## norcalfarm (Feb 11, 2009)

A few years ago, if you had asked me, I would have been completely against legalizing it. Now things are a little different. In California, it's being called the "green rush". People are moving here from all over the country to grow weed for "medicinal" purposes. What makes it a joke, is that some doctors here are writing prescriptions for anything and everything. They even make a practice entirely of just that. Then these people with their prescriptions group up, buy rural property, clear cut it, and grow their weed in orchards. 

What I'm dealing with is one parcel which is at the end of our dirt road that now gets upwards of twenty cars going in and out on some days. Other days aren't so bad. They aren't neighbors, just people there to make some easy money which means they are not the most respectful people around.

Anyway, with the way things are turning out here, I'm beginning to think that the best thing to do is legalize it. Once that happens, the money will fall out and hopefully most people will have a few plants in their yard rather than the 70+ that I look at across the road from me right now.


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## phrogpharmer (Apr 25, 2005)

I think that pot should be legalized, regulated, and taxed along the lines of alcohol and tobacco. But something needs to be worked out first.

Alcohol affects a person's ability to operate a vehicle. There is a simple roadside test to determine how much alcohol is in a person's body. If you are over that limit, you are in violation of the law.

As far as I know there is no simple roadside test to determine how stoned a pot smoker is. I am very certain that smoking pot affects driving skills. Until a simple roadside test can be developed and legal limits for safely operating a vehicle are determined, zero tolerance for being stoned and driving is the best policy.

As a non tobacco smoker I think that being high on tobacco also has an affect on driving skills. If I were to smoke a full strength cigarette and then attempt to drive I would be a menace on the roads. 

A small percentage of people make their own alcoholic beverages or grow their own tobacco. I think the same would hold true with pot.

One last thing, employers should not be able to discriminate against people who smoke pot. If a potential employee or current employee uses a legal drug
but is not under it's influence at work it is no business of the employer.


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## raccoon breath (Aug 5, 2010)

Hmmm, about pot being grown, about the time a person is busted with actual plants, they are in trouble for cultivating it and maybe cultivating for sale, not just the possession and weight. And street value is all just something to shock the people watching the evening news. Also, here in AZ, the pot we see coming across the border in bales has the whole plant, not just the bud, and it is all mixed together and sold - more than 3 oz out of 2 plants even dried but maybe plants in other states are mini's compared to our towing plants. It's just the right temp here in a good part of the state for people to grow it themselves and then they have the luxury of picking the prime parts of the plant, but if they were going to sell it, betcha they'd be mixing up the stems and leaves all up into it to get a higher weight for sale and get top dollar, right? THC in other places of the plant but not as good as the bud but still THC. When I saw $10,000 for 2 plants, I was a little surprised because we are cheap here I guess but try to go buy a cord of wood and your jaw will drop on cost. I about soiled myself when I saw the thread on wood cords under $100!! Anyway...just a few thoughts from a non-pot smoker, never smoked it, but I'll leave you curious as to how I know these things


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## SirDude (May 30, 2010)

pancho said:


> If you are a recreational user I guess it doesn't matter as much. You just might have to smake more to get the same high. Of course there would be some that would add a secret ingredient to get that brand loyalty. The to compete the next one would need a secret ingredient better than the first secret ingredient. Might get sort of hard to decide which secret ingredient would be best.
> 
> Medical mj is different. If they are really using it for medical reasons home grown would be a flip of a coin. Just like taking a bc for a headache. If the neighbor down the street was making it you could not be sure of what you are taking or the amount you need to take.
> 
> Just my opinion but I don't quite believe in medical mj. I think the majority who want to use medical mj do not have any medical problem at all. Those with a true medical problem would already be on medication.


Pancho, 

These are some good points and some very typical views. (not trying to offend in any way) 

Since I am interested in using Hydroponics, I end up reading / viewing a lot of MJ / MMJ websites before I can find the websites with all the info I need. In doing so it has been very clear that not all MJ is equal, and that is true in many different ways. One type get you very high, very fast, but with a very hard buzz. Some might take longer, but give you a very nice buzz. I don't drink, but I think alcohol and Cigars are a lot like this too. 

There are websites set up with all the different prices. The ones I saw selling seeds or starter plants would post the going rate for an oz. What sells for $350/oz in FL might bring in $1200/oz in NY. Supply and Demand. 

As for the statement about the people who smoke weed not having a medical problem or the ones with a medical problem already being on meds. This is a gray area. I am not even going to try to pretend like there aren't folks out there with MMJ cards who just want to legally buy weed. But I do know a few personally, and hear about more and more people all the time, who in the past would have never thought about smoking MJ, but because of the cancer treatment they are under-going they need the MMJ to calm their stomachs so they can feel like eating. When people learn that their 70 year old Grandma is smoking MMJ and is feeling better, they tend to change their point of view on this pretty quick. 

Also, a side note, it's not just for smoking anymore. They have found ways to make it into different forms so people can cook with it or put it into other types of food. 

I think this is what is going to set MMJ off from "weed" and the stoner image. If it really makes dealing with cancer treatment and other medical stuff livable, then make it in a form that is not like weed and also a way to say, here's 10 cc's of "X" to help with your stomach. In my opinion this is going to be the way to please the science community and law makers. 

As for Norcalfarm, I am very shocked that something like that is going on. Even with the state being one of the 13 states, Cali only allows so many plants per person, with so many oz's per person at any given time. This sounds more like WA, I think they allow up to 24 plants at any given time per person. 

But norther Cali is a good example of how this can go bad fast just because a small area is ok with it. The whole country needs to get behind it and then it won't be a problem for one police dept, or state. That show on MSNBC talked about how houses are gutted to make them like green house, or how whole neighborhoods are more like ghost-towns because so many have moved away due to the bad people around them. 

That is why I would like to see this turned over to the corporate crooks and let them grown it in greenhouses.


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## pancho (Oct 23, 2006)

SirDude said:


> Pancho,
> 
> These are some good points and some very typical views. (not trying to offend in any way)
> 
> ...



I have a couple of aquaponic systems set up. Seems easier than hydroponics. Just the change from hydroponics to aquaponics seems to weed out a few of the mj growers.

There are several other ways of getting the positive effects of mj instead of smoking it. Smoking it is the least effective and the most hazardous. Usually it is easy to tell if those who speak of medical mj are really concerned with the medical effects or just pot heads. The pot heads will only think about smoking it where as those who do have some medical problems that mj might help will think of the other possible ways to benefit from it

There should be some way to separate the medical mj users from the pot heads. It would be easy to legalize medical mj if there was some way to do that.


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## hotzcatz (Oct 16, 2007)

Just because the individual states have legalized (or at least de-criminalized) it, doesn't make MJ legal. We have a fellow here who just got taken away a week or two ago. http://www.westcoastcannabis.com/news/239-hawaii-thc-ministry-raided-by-feds-roger-christie-arrested He was claiming marijuana use was a "sacrament" in their church. http://www.thc-ministry.org/kit2.htm and since it was for religious reasons, it was then "legal". He was really open and up front about it, he had a "church" on main street with a big pot sign hanging on the front of the building. He'd been there for several years and had been raided once about six months ago. Also one of the people with him had been raided a few months ago, too. I guess it takes the federal folks awhile to make their case.

So, if it is just decriminalized or legalized in several states, that doesn't mean it is decriminalized or legal as far as the Federal folks are concerned. It just makes it a lot easier for the Federal folks to find the marijuana users.

We will see how this local arrest plays out, but I suspect all the folks involved will be doing a lot of time and that will cost the taxpayers a lot of money. If the stuff were either decriminalized or even made legal and taxed, we'd save tons of money from not having as many folks in prison. Not to mention the rest of the amount of taxpayer money it takes to get them into prison. Hmm, if they are doing this on a Federal level, does that mean EVERYONES tax dollars go towards this or is is just the folks in the state they did the arrest in?

I don't have any personal take on marijuana other than I've never heard of a pot smoker being aggressive or brutal. Seems if folks are gonna do drugs, a drug where they sit and stare at things is much to be preferred to one where they run about and cause trouble. If they are doing a drug they or their friends can grow, then that would be a lot less thefts and break ins, I'd think. But I'm not an expert on these sorts of things.


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## featherboa (Aug 6, 2010)

The United States has the highest documented incarceration rate in the world at 754 persons in prison or jail per 100,000 (as of 2008).[3] A report released Feb. 28, 2008 indicates that more than 1 in 100 adults in the United States are in prison.[24] The United States has less than 5% of the world's population[25] and 23.4% of the world's prison population.[1]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Incarceration_in_the_United_States#Comparison_with_other_countries


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## pancho (Oct 23, 2006)

featherboa said:


> The United States has the highest documented incarceration rate in the world at 754 persons in prison or jail per 100,000 (as of 2008).[3] A report released Feb. 28, 2008 indicates that more than 1 in 100 adults in the United States are in prison.[24] The United States has less than 5% of the world's population[25] and 23.4% of the world's prison population.[1]
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Incarceration_in_the_United_States#Comparison_with_other_countries


Looks like we would learn. 
Make everything legal, decriminalize everything.
We won't have many people in out prisons.


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## Txrider (Jun 25, 2010)

The more you learn about the war on drugs, the unintended consequences and costs of it, and the flat out propaganda and misinformation used to promote it, the more you'll want this irrational prohibition ended.

It is past rediculous really...

Here's a snip form the job description of the drug czar...



> (12) shall ensure that no Federal funds appropriated to the Office of National Drug Control Policy shall be expended for any study or contract relating to the legalization (for a medical use or any other use) of a substance listed in schedule I of section 202 of the Controlled Substances Act (21 U.S.C. 812) and take such actions as necessary to oppose any attempt to legalize the use of a substance (in any form) thatâ
> 
> 1. is listed in schedule I of section 202 of the Controlled Substances Act (21 U.S.C. 812); and
> 2. has not been approved for use for medical purposes by the Food and Drug Administration;


So basically he is required to not ever look at or fund or deal in any way with any study that might show a medical purpose for pot, or show it as harmless, or anything that might lead toward legalization.

And he is fully allowed to lie about it to the public, and does on a regular basis. From the ONDC itself...




> ONDCP is specifically charged with the responsibility for âtaking such actions as necessary to oppose any attempt to legalize the useâ of certain controlled substances such as marijuana â- a responsibility which logically could include the making of advocacy statements in opposition to legalization efforts. The Deputy Directorâs statements about marijuana are thus within the statutory role assigned to ONDCP. Given this role, we do not see a need to examine the accuracy of the Deputy Directorâs individual statements in detail.


In other words, lying to and intentionally misrepresenting the facts to the public is within his statutory role.. He is within his role and job description and within the law to flat out lie to us.


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## moonspirit (Dec 22, 2009)

no one has died from smoking a joint.

millions die every year around the world from drinking alcohol and doing something stupid or getting themselves killed. 

millions of people die every year from smoking cigarettes

yet for some reason marijuana being legal would turn the world upside down. boyyy..


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## pancho (Oct 23, 2006)

moonspirit said:


> no one has died from smoking a joint.
> 
> millions die every year around the world from drinking alcohol and doing something stupid or getting themselves killed.
> 
> ...


I can say for sure there have been many people who have died from smoking a joint. I think I posted earlier about my brother in law getting stoned and killing a family that happened to be driving down the road at the same time he was.


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## MELOC (Sep 26, 2005)

no...the family died because your BIL decided to drive under the influence. many folks die every day because people choose to drive while drunk and alcohol remains legal to consume for recreation. that said, i know of several people who have died of acute alcohol poisoning and many more from the effects of drinking alcohol long term. i don't know of anyone, nor have read about anyone anywhere, who has ever died from an acute overdose of marijuana. i have heard of people overdosing on refined THC intended for use in medicine. such a shame really when using marijuana instead of the refined alternative would have been much safer.


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## pancho (Oct 23, 2006)

MELOC said:


> no...the family died because your BIL decided to drive under the influence. many folks die every day because people choose to drive while drunk and alcohol remains legal to consume for recreation. that said, i know of several people who have died of acute alcohol poisoning and many more from the effects of drinking alcohol long term. i don't know of anyone, nor have read about anyone anywhere, who has ever died from an acute overdose of marijuana. i have heard of people overdosing on refined THC intended for use in medicine. such a shame really when using marijuana instead of the refined alternative would have been much safer.


You do realize he was high from smoking? That means the people died because he smoked a joint. Simple.


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## CrashTestRanch (Jul 14, 2010)

there's a HUGE difference, in legal speak here, with the definitions of "legalize" and "decriminalize". What folks should be requesting is to have ALL marijuana laws "REPEALED". 

This will open the free markets.


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## MELOC (Sep 26, 2005)

pancho said:


> You do realize he was high from smoking? That means the people died because he smoked a joint. Simple.



the people died from injury from an auto accident, not from the effects of THC.

the sky is blue, so air must be blue and not transparent. i've never seen a bear carp in the woods, so they must do it someplace else. i don't hear trees falling in the woods, so they must do it without making noise.


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## suzfromWi (Jun 1, 2002)

Tobacco kills but its legal, but you can go to jail for growing weed...DUH!!!!


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## pancho (Oct 23, 2006)

MELOC said:


> the people died from injury from an auto accident, not from the effects of THC.
> 
> the sky is blue, so air must be blue and not transparent. i've never seen a bear carp in the woods, so they must do it someplace else. i don't hear trees falling in the woods, so they must do it without making noise.


Do you feel the same way about auto accident deaths caused by alcohol?


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## daffodil (Jun 9, 2003)

If I would have known my dh was a pothead, I never would have gotten involved with him. He hid it well. I don't think it is a safe drug at all. I can tell you he is hard to talk to without enraging him, so I avoid him. Also, all the usage has made him impotent. Not so great a side effect.

Anyway, it will probably be made legal. You'll be allowed to have a certain amount without a license and for home use only.


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## CrashTestRanch (Jul 14, 2010)

daffodil said:


> Also, all the usage has made him impotent. Not so great a side effect.


So now MJ causes IMPOTENCY? Can you provide the medical research study/studies to support that claim?


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## pancho (Oct 23, 2006)

It doesn't take a lot of research to know pot heads are dangerous. Usually those who doubt it just happen to be dopers also. That should be some indication, if they do not realize the dangers and continue to use the product, they will always find some doubt with any research. People are always looking for an excuse to do what they want to do anyway.


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## CrashTestRanch (Jul 14, 2010)

pancho said:


> It doesn't take a lot of research to know pot heads are dangerous. Usually those who doubt it just happen to be dopers also. That should be some indication, if they do not realize the dangers and continue to use the product, they will always find some doubt with any research. People are always looking for an excuse to do what they want to do anyway.


ah, the stereotyping technique ... :viking:
I got this gut feelin' that you may be in LE ... you're rebuttals wreak of reefer madness state sponsored propaganda ...


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## pancho (Oct 23, 2006)

CrashTestRanch said:


> ah, the stereotyping technique ... :viking:
> I got this gut feelin' that you may be in LE ... you're rebuttals wreak of reefer madness state sponsored propaganda ...


There must be something wrong with your gut or it isn't really that reliable.
I am definately not a LE, and have little respect for the majority of them.
I can understand why you do not understand much of what is happening, evidentially mj plays a very important part in your life. Usually those who depend on it find it hard to believe it just might not be that good for you.
If they would try setting it aside for a while their opinion might change.


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## CrashTestRanch (Jul 14, 2010)

sorry pancho, but I *do not* use that stuff, I have no problems with folks who do, either.


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## fishhead (Jul 19, 2006)

Here's a novel idea to protect your crop. I wonder if they shared their crop with the enforcers to get them to stay nearby.

http://video.ap.org/?f=MNBRA&pid=BZLbzt5RDnFw_7VcFNoyBMHkAI7hDHlb


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## MELOC (Sep 26, 2005)

pancho said:


> Do you feel the same way about auto accident deaths caused by alcohol?



yes i do. people choose to drink and to drive. it is a poor choice to drive impaired.


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## WindowOrMirror (Jan 10, 2005)

One plant can have a yield between 25 and 40 ounces of good bud (dried). Figure $50 an 1/8th with an average loss in packaging of 10% on a 30-ounce plant and you end up with $10,800.

Keep in mind that if you grow S.O.G., control the light well, pipe in some CO2, and so on that your yields can be WAY higher than this. The DEA and local LEO's are 'right on' with their estimate... in fact, it must not have been a very sophisticated grow operation. (I see you said it was in her garden... that's right in line).

R


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## WindowOrMirror (Jan 10, 2005)

phrogpharmer said:


> ..As far as I know there is no simple roadside test to determine how stoned a pot smoker is...


Not only that, it takes 6 weeks for the THC to fall to undetectable levels (after stopping use) if you have used for a while and smoke up 'a lot'.


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## pancho (Oct 23, 2006)

CrashTestRanch said:


> sorry pancho, but I *do not* use that stuff, I have no problems with folks who do, either.


Then why the problem with other people who do not use it?


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## pancho (Oct 23, 2006)

MELOC said:


> yes i do. people choose to drink and to drive. it is a poor choice to drive impaired.


You do not think alcohol causes many auto accidents?


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## CrashTestRanch (Jul 14, 2010)

pancho said:


> Then why the problem with other people who do not use it?


wasn't looking for a fight, just wondering why you're pushing your agenda so hard, and why you're bashing the folks who do use? Using derogatory terms to describe those who use MJ and then stereotyping folks who question the validity of claims made is counterproductive to thread momentum and progress to a resolution to the so called "threat" of MJ use. Just my .02 :gaptooth:


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## pancho (Oct 23, 2006)

CrashTestRanch said:


> wasn't looking for a fight, just wondering why you're pushing your agenda so hard, and why you're bashing the folks who do use? Using derogatory terms to describe those who use MJ and then stereotyping folks who question the validity of claims made is counterproductive to thread momentum and progress to a resolution to the so called "threat" of MJ use. Just my .02 :gaptooth:


I answered a few questions and posted my opinion. For some reason you think you are the only one allowed to post an opinion. You are wrong.

I simply posted my brother in law killed a family while driving under the influence of mj. For some reason that was too hard for you to understand. You tried to come up with an excuse for him and what he did.
A jury didn't go for that. He was sent to prison. Guess what, as soon as he was released he returned to the doper life. 
Mj cost the lives of that family. Mj cost a family their business. Mj sent a man to prison. Why is that so hard to understand?


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## MELOC (Sep 26, 2005)

alcohol doesn't cause any accidents. people who drive drunk cause accidents. what you are saying is much like all of the anti-gun rhetoric i hear..."guns kill people so they should be banned". guns don't kill people, people kill people. using alcohol and pot doesn't cause accidents, people who drive while impaired cause accidents.

your BIL made the choice to drive while he was intoxicated when he could have just stayed where he was. that poor choice caused the accident.


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## Rainy (Jan 21, 2010)

I keep hoping that they will legal to use and to grow. I watched my stepmom die of cancer and the pain she was in was awful. Thank goodness she had a sister who could get MJ with no problem.It really helped her pain, and gave her a chance to rest.


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## pancho (Oct 23, 2006)

MELOC said:


> alcohol doesn't cause any accidents. people who drive drunk cause accidents. what you are saying is much like all of the anti-gun rhetoric i hear..."guns kill people so they should be banned". guns don't kill people, people kill people. using alcohol and pot doesn't cause accidents, people who drive while impaired cause accidents.
> 
> your BIL made the choice to drive while he was intoxicated when he could have just stayed where he was. that poor choice caused the accident.


I can understand and agree with that. People choose to do something and it can't be the fault of what they choose to use.

I know he ruined the lives of many people. His parents both died deep in debt and unable to pay for the medical attention they needed to live. They lost their business, all of their savings, and even their house trying to keep him out of prison. Then the same day he got out of prison he began using mj again.


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## CrashTestRanch (Jul 14, 2010)

pancho said:


> I answered a few questions and posted my opinion. For some reason you think you are the only one allowed to post an opinion. You are wrong.
> 
> For some reason that was too hard for you to understand.
> 
> ...


You know what they say about opinions? I was asking for data to back up the claim that MJ caused IMPOTENCY and you came back with these examples?

Not sure where I made the excuses for the poor choices that your family member made?

I agree with others regarding choices folks make. Rosie O'donell isn't fat because of ice cream, cake, cookies or silverware, she's a pig because she makes a *choice* to eat like one ... 

Just an FYI there pancho, my youngest brother is a "doper" for life. He uses to cope, it slows him down so he can focus, better and CHEAPER than all the meds, with all the nasty side effects the so called doctors put him on. Do I allow him around my family, NOPE, I don't want to be rounded up and my property seized because he has that junk in his possession. Do I miss my little brother? YUP, but what do we do when the govt outlaws a plant?


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