# Trashed Babies...



## Shine (Feb 19, 2011)

It seems that life has been greatly devalued, numerous babies are being found in the trash and other locations, left to die. This article clearly aligns the action to ancient paganism and explains why it is similar.

https://www.lifesitenews.com/news/e...-trash-cans-a-revival-of-pagan-custom-catholi

http://news.yahoo.com/baby-left-tra...vbG8DYmYxBHBvcwM2BHZ0aWQDQjE2MzhfMQRzZWMDc3I-

Trash from an abortion clinic...

http://clinicquotes.com/unborn-babies-found-in-trash-from-mine-eyes-have-seen-the-glory/

http://www.texasrighttolife.com/a/5...-Fetal-Remains-Found-in-Dumpster#.Vro7H-aTXOA

...a 29 YO woman takes pills to abort a 5 month old baby and puts it into the trash:

http://www.lifenews.com/2013/02/13/woman-puts-5-month-old-baby-in-trash-can-after-self-abortion/


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## Cornhusker (Mar 20, 2003)

This whole country is going crazy.
People have no regard for human life anymore.


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

I thought y'all didn't want more "abortion" threads?


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## Annsni (Oct 27, 2006)

While this is not necessarily about abortion, I think it absolutely ties to the mentality that it's all about "me" with no regard to other life involved.  What difference is it between getting an abortion and murdering the baby right after birth? There are even people who feel women SHOULD have the right to choose to kill their baby after birth if they don't want it - make that legal!!! It's heartbreaking.


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## Shine (Feb 19, 2011)

Bearfootfarm said:


> I thought y'all didn't want more "abortion" threads?


Just thought that the issue needed to be brought into the light, so to speak. Some people do not need abortion providers, they solve their perceived problems by herself...


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## Cornhusker (Mar 20, 2003)

Bearfootfarm said:


> I thought y'all didn't want more "abortion" threads?


This is an abortion thread?


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## Shine (Feb 19, 2011)

Cornhusker said:


> This is an abortion thread?


Late, late term...

Same result.


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## mmoetc (Oct 9, 2012)

Shine said:


> Just thought that the issue needed to be brought into the light, so to speak. Some people do not need abortion providers, they solve their perceived problems by herself...


Since the first medicine woman discover plants, herbs and other abortifacients women have terminated pregnancies. It's not a new phenomenon and for a lot of history as long as it happened before quickening even the religious didn't really object. I've read stories of young women giving birth in toilet stalls and babies in dumpsters for as long as I can remember. Banning abortion won't change this. Demonizing others won't change this. Talking to and helping others will.


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## City Bound (Jan 24, 2009)

A lot of links there.

I am not sure about the pagan connection. 

We had a couple of throw away babies here. There was a dead baby found wrapped in a sheet on the beach in queens. The project a mile away from me a woman was arrested for smothering her new born baby and then tossing it down the garbage shoot of the apartment building. A man was arrested for beating hi gf crying baby to death because he could not get the child to stop crying. After he killed it he dumped the baby in the garbage shoot of the building. 

Some people really have no respect for human life.


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## City Bound (Jan 24, 2009)

mmoetc said:


> Since the first medicine woman discover plants, herbs and other abortifacients women have terminated pregnancies. It's not a new phenomenon and for a lot of history as long as it happened before quickening even the religious didn't really object. I've read stories of young women giving birth in toilet stalls and babies in dumpsters for as long as I can remember. Banning abortion won't change this. Demonizing others won't change this. Talking to and helping others will.


These people get a great deal of help and it is all free but they still chose to toss children in garbage cans. 

There is even free birth control available to many people and they chose not to use it.


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## poppy (Feb 21, 2008)

It's very akin to Moloch worship and God says He hates that.


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

Shine said:


> Just thought that the issue needed to be brought into the light, so to speak. Some people do not need abortion providers, they solve their perceived problems by herself...


It's the same end result, but one is legal, and neither are new, or confined to one "culture"


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

Cornhusker said:


> This is an abortion thread?


It's mentioned more than once in the OP, so the answer is "yes"



> Trash from an *abortion* clinic...





> ..a 29 YO woman takes pills to *abort* a 5 month old baby and puts it into the trash:
> 
> http://www.lifenews.com/2013/02/13/w...self-*abortion*/


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## FarmerKat (Jul 3, 2014)

What I do not understand is why women who carry the baby to term and do not want it, do not simply drop the newborn baby off at the designated safe haven location. Every state has a safe haven law. I think in some states the babies can be up to 1 year old.


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

FarmerKat said:


> I do not understand is why women who carry the baby to term and do not want it, do not simply drop the newborn baby off at the designated safe haven location. Every state has a safe haven law. I think in some states the babies can be up to 1 year old.


You're looking for a rational answer to explain irrational behavior.
You can't always do that when discussing people


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## edcopp (Oct 9, 2004)

Should not be thrown in the dumpster. Could be used for fishing bait. Catfish like dark meat the best. Might make good compost too.:sob: What a loss.


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## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

Annsni said:


> While this is not necessarily about abortion, I think it absolutely ties to the mentality that it's all about "me" with no regard to other life involved.  What difference is it between getting an abortion and murdering the baby right after birth? There are even people who feel women SHOULD have the right to choose to kill their baby after birth if they don't want it - make that legal!!! It's heartbreaking.


They are extremists and pro choice people don't support them. Do you support people that kill abortion providers?


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## Annsni (Oct 27, 2006)

Irish Pixie said:


> They are extremists and pro choice people don't support them. Do you support people that kill abortion providers?


Nope - but I'm pointing out that these people exist. So why do women kill their newborn babies? Because they think like these "experts" do.


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## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

Annsni said:


> Nope - but I'm pointing out that these people exist. So why do women kill their newborn babies? Because they think like these "experts" do.


There are a handful of people that believe in infanticide, and that's in theory. So, no, I don't think that many woman are killing infants because a few academics believe in the theory of killing newborns. 

I imagine most women kill their newborns because they are scared, confused, mentally ill, or any number of other reasons why people kill.


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## Cornhusker (Mar 20, 2003)

Irish Pixie said:


> There are a handful of people that believe in infanticide, and that's in theory. So, no, I don't think that many woman are killing infants because a few academics believe in the theory of killing newborns.
> 
> I imagine most women kill their newborns because they are scared, confused, mentally ill, or any number of other reasons why people kill.


Or because they are self absorbed, slackers who don't care about anybody but themselves?
Or maybe they are bloodthirsty killers who have no regard for human life.
What kind of person could throw a baby in the trash?
What kind of person would defend that person?


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

You confuse logical "explanations" with "defending".


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## Cornhusker (Mar 20, 2003)

Bearfootfarm said:


> You confuse logical "explanations" with "defending".


If you say so .................
I find no logic nor excuse in killing babies.....but you know that


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## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

Bearfootfarm said:


> You confuse logical "explanations" with "defending".


Yup. It's kinda sad and pathetic, isn't it?


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## Cornhusker (Mar 20, 2003)

Irish Pixie said:


> Yup. It's kinda sad and pathetic, isn't it?


Yes, throwing babies in the garbage is indeed "sad and pathetic"
We finally agree on something.


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## Shine (Feb 19, 2011)

Irish Pixie said:


> Yup. It's kinda sad and pathetic, isn't it?


Yes, I agree. Here you have women that are essentially doing the exact same thing as what is considered to be legal, ending the life of what would be their child and because of nuances and symantecs so many people want to say that what they do is different, sad and pathetic, you are correct.


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

Cornhusker said:


> If you say so .................
> I find no logic nor excuse in killing babies.....but you know that


No one said it was logical.
You're arguing about things that never happened

"Reasons" are not "excuses"


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

Shine said:


> Yes, I agree. Here you have women that are essentially doing the exact same thing as what is considered to be legal, ending the life of what would be their child and because of nuances and symantecs so many people want to say that what they do is different, sad and pathetic, you are correct.


It's not at all the "exact same thing as what is considered legal", since the overwhelming majority of abortions are done before the fetus is viable, and are done within the law.

Murdering an infant after birth isn't legal


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## Forcast (Apr 15, 2014)

dont think these ladies would ever consider adoption even private adoption. The young girls in my town need the babies for welfare. They say they dont really want this child but look at you like you have lost your mind when you ask if they thought about adoption.


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## Shine (Feb 19, 2011)

Bearfootfarm said:


> It's not at all the "exact same thing as what is considered legal", since the overwhelming majority of abortions are done before the fetus is viable, and are done within the law.
> 
> Murdering an infant after birth isn't legal


Yes, in one side of your brain, out the other side. It still does not compute. The same outcome. You are right, one is legal the other is not but, how is it any different with what happens in the end being exactly the same, a dead child, one born, the other unborn, how can you use artful terms to justify one and be offended by the other?

Here it is laid out all nice and neat for you. How can you stand behind one and rail against the other, it is not rational.

For me, both are the same action.


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## wr (Aug 10, 2003)

Shine said:


> Yes, in one side of your brain, out the other side. It still does not compute. The same outcome. You are right, one is legal the other is not but, how is it any different with what happens in the end being exactly the same, a dead child, one born, the other unborn, how can you use artful terms to justify one and be offended by the other?
> 
> Here it is laid out all nice and neat for you. How can you stand behind one and rail against the other, it is not rational.
> 
> For me, both are the same action.



I'm not sure you've laid it out as clearly for me because you indicate in your first post that dumpster babies are clearly aligned with Pagan rituals. Perhaps you could provide greater insight as to the specific ritual and where this is practiced.


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

Shine said:


> Yes, in one side of your brain, out the other side. It still does not compute. The same outcome. You are right, one is legal the other is not but, how is it any different with what happens in the end being exactly the same, a dead child, one born, the other unborn, how can you use artful terms to justify one and be offended by the other?
> 
> *Here it is laid out all nice and neat for you*. How can you stand behind one and rail against the other, it is not rational.
> 
> *For me*, both are the same action.


You always seem to forget "for you" *only* means "for you"


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## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

wr said:


> I'm not sure you've laid it out as clearly for me because you indicate in your first post that dumpster babies are clearly aligned with Pagan rituals. Perhaps you could provide greater insight as to the specific ritual and where this is practiced.


I believe that it is "religion bashing" as well. There are members of a sect that howl when they perceive their religion being bashed. 

Just sayin'.


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## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

Irish Pixie said:


> Yup. It's kinda sad and pathetic, isn't it?





Cornhusker said:


> Yes, throwing babies in the garbage is indeed "sad and pathetic"
> We finally agree on something.





Shine said:


> Yes, I agree. Here you have women that are essentially doing the exact same thing as what is considered to be legal, ending the life of what would be their child and because of nuances and symantecs so many people want to say that what they do is different, sad and pathetic, you are correct.


Spinning what I said to mean what _you_ want it to (or as most people know it- lying) isn't nice. It's never nice to lie.


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## Fishindude (May 19, 2015)

This is pretty extreme, but it wouldn't be too out of line to start permanently sterilizing repeat criminals, junkies, long term welfare recipients, etc. These people don't need to be breeding kids they won't take care of anyway.


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## Cornhusker (Mar 20, 2003)

Irish Pixie said:


> Spinning what I said to mean what _you_ want it to (or as most people know it- lying) isn't nice. It's never nice to lie.


So you are saying what?
You don't find throwing babies in dumpsters sad and pathetic?
I would think this is something we could all agree on, but maybe I overestimated you


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## wr (Aug 10, 2003)

Irish Pixie said:


> I believe that it is "religion bashing" as well. There are members of a sect that howl when they perceive their religion being bashed.
> 
> Just sayin'.



I'm not totally as convinced it faith bashing as much as accepting misinformation from a church deacon as fact.


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## Cornhusker (Mar 20, 2003)

Irish Pixie said:


> I believe that it is "religion bashing" as well. There are members of a sect that howl when they perceive their religion being bashed.
> 
> Just sayin'.


Some people don't seem to mind bashing Christians, it's just when muslims and pagans take a hit they suddenly start to care.
Just sayin'


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## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

Cornhusker said:


> Some people don't seem to mind bashing Christians, it's just when muslims and pagans take a hit they suddenly start to care.
> Just sayin'


Then again there are those that bash all religion. I admit to being one of those. I however don't believe that religion and faith are the same thing.


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## no really (Aug 7, 2013)

wr said:


> I'm not totally as convinced it faith bashing as much as accepting misinformation from a church deacon as fact.


Kinda the way I read it. To many folks believe in fairy tales.


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## Cornhusker (Mar 20, 2003)

Bearfootfarm said:


> You confuse logical "explanations" with "defending".





Bearfootfarm said:


> *No one said it was logical.*
> You're arguing about things that never happened
> 
> "Reasons" are not "excuses"


Actually, someone did say it was logical....you did.


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## Cornhusker (Mar 20, 2003)

painterswife said:


> Then again there are those that bash all religion. I admit to being one of those. *I however don't believe that religion and faith are the same thing.*


I agree with you on that.


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## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

Cornhusker said:


> I agree with you on that.


So many problems could be solved if we 86'd religion and people lived their faith.


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## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

painterswife said:


> So many problems could be solved if we 86'd religion and _people lived their faith_.


Spot on!


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

Cornhusker said:


> Actually, someone did say it was logical....you did.


I said there were logical *explanations* as to what might make people do what they did, not that the actions themselves were logical.

Post Partum Depression causes lots of women to kill or abuse infants, but they aren't *thinking* logically when they do it. 

Mental problems and drug abuse can be factors that cause illogical behavior

Read slower and devote less energy to making everything out to be some sort of "attack" and it will make more sense



> Originally Posted by Bearfootfarm View Post
> You confuse *logical "explanations"* with "defending".


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## Cornhusker (Mar 20, 2003)

Bearfootfarm said:


> I said there were logical *explanations* as to what might make people do what they did, not that the actions themselves were logical.
> 
> Post Partum Depression causes lots of women to kill or abuse infants, but they aren't *thinking* logically when they do it.
> 
> ...


Are they all not thinking logically because of mental illness or drugs?
Could it be that some are just cold hearted women who have been taught their entire lives that babies aren't really people?
Personally, I believe one would have to have some kind of mental and moral defect to even contemplate killing a helpless infant, so you could be right.
Too bad they think they have to make the "choice" to murder their own child.


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## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

Cornhusker said:


> Are they all not thinking logically because of mental illness or drugs?
> *Could it be that some are just cold hearted women who have been taught their entire lives that babies aren't really people?*
> Personally, I believe one would have to have some kind of mental and moral defect to even contemplate killing a helpless infant, so you could be right.
> Too bad they think they have to make the "choice" to murder their own child.


Your posts seem to convey that your experience and thought process trumps everyone else's. You have not lived everyone else's life. You surely have not lived any life close to a women's. Maybe, just maybe you have no real idea what these women have been through. What pressures, what medical problems or life problems they have.

You have every right to be upset with the end result of their actions but until you actually speak with and understand each person's situation you have no real right to judge them.


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## Cornhusker (Mar 20, 2003)

painterswife said:


> *Your posts seem to convey that your experience and thought process trumps everyone else's*. You have not lived everyone else's life. You surely have not lived any life close to a women's. Maybe, just maybe you have no real idea what these women have been through. What pressures, what medical problems or life problems they have.
> 
> You have every right to be upset with the end result of their actions but until you actually speak with and understand each person's situation you have no real right to judge them.


Actually, I was expressing my opinion, same as everybody else.
No, I have never been a woman, you got me there.
That doesn't make me wrong to be against someone throwing babies in the garbage, no matter what gender they are, does it?


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## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

painterswife said:


> Your posts seem to convey that your experience and thought process trumps everyone else's. You have not lived everyone else's life. You surely have not lived any life close to a women's. Maybe, just maybe you have no real idea what these women have been through. What pressures, what medical problems or life problems they have.
> 
> *You have every right to be upset with the end result of their actions* but until you actually speak with and understand each person's situation you have no real right to judge them.





Cornhusker said:


> Actually, I was expressing my opinion, same as everybody else.
> No, I have never been a woman, you got me there.
> That doesn't make me wrong to be against someone throwing babies in the garbage, no matter what gender they are, does it?


I think I was quite clear.


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

Cornhusker said:


> Are they all not thinking logically because of mental illness or drugs?
> Could it be that some are just cold hearted women who have been taught their entire lives that babies aren't really people?
> Personally, I believe one would have to have some kind of mental and moral defect to even contemplate killing a helpless infant, so you could be right.
> Too bad they think they have to make the "choice" to murder their own child.


I have no real answers to all that since I don't know anyone who has ever done such a thing.

I'm just realistic enough to know with about 7 billion people on Earth, not all of them are mentally stable. 

Some show that by killing people, along with other psychopathic behaviors 

It makes no sense to agonize over it or to politicize it or really even ask why.

It just is.


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## Cornhusker (Mar 20, 2003)

painterswife said:


> I think I was quite clear.


So keep my opinion to myself?
I really didn't think I was "judging".


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## Cornhusker (Mar 20, 2003)

Bearfootfarm said:


> I have no real answers to all that since I don't know anyone who has ever done such a thing.
> 
> I'm just realistic enough to know with about 7 billion people on Earth, not all of them are mentally stable.
> 
> ...


So no big deal?


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## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

Cornhusker said:


> So keep my opinion to myself?
> I really didn't think I was "judging".


No need to assign meaning to my words that I did not imply. Read back your conversation with me and BFF. Opinions are always welcome. They just don't mean a whole bunch if you don't really know why the women took the actions they did.


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## Cornhusker (Mar 20, 2003)

painterswife said:


> No need to assign meaning to my words that I did not imply. Read back your conversation with me and BFF. Opinions are always welcome. They just don't mean a whole bunch if you don't really know why the women took the actions they did.


And do you now why they took the actions they did?


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## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

Cornhusker said:


> And do you now why they took the actions they did?


That is the point. Neither of us do.


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

Cornhusker said:


> So no big deal?
> 
> So keep my opinion to myself?



Why do you feel a need to twist every statement?

You really show no interest in an honest discussion, and just try to pick a fight.

It's pretty juvenile, and if it was one of us doing it on the site you moderate, we'd be getting infractions.

You constantly complain about being "attacked" or "not allowed to argue" when that's all you do.

If you think it's "a big deal", get off the computer and go do something about it other than complain here :shrug:

I have no control over those billions of people, so I just worry about controlling what I do.


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## Cornhusker (Mar 20, 2003)

painterswife said:


> That is the point. Neither of us do.


Yet my opinions "just don't mean a whole bunch" while yours (and apparently everybody else's) do?

(I don't mean to take the thread off topic, but it seems it's turned into a question of my opinion having validity or not.)


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## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

Cornhusker said:


> Yet my opinions "just don't mean a whole bunch" while yours (and apparently everybody else's) do?
> 
> (I don't mean to take the thread off topic, but it seems it's turned into a question of my opinion having validity or not.)


You seem to want to keep twisting things. I did not say that my opinion meant any more than yours. *If I did not write it then I did not mean it*.


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## Cornhusker (Mar 20, 2003)

Bearfootfarm said:


> Why do you feel a need to twist every statement?
> 
> You really show no interest in an honest discussion, and just try to pick a fight.
> 
> ...


Stating my opinion is arguing?


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

Cornhusker said:


> Yet my opinions "just don't mean a whole bunch" while yours (and apparently everybody else's) do?
> 
> (*I don't mean to take the thread off topic*, but it seems it's turned into a question of my opinion having validity or not.)


LOL

Then why keep doing it?

(Don't bother to answer)



> Stating my opinion is arguing?


I'm not playing this game anymore


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## Cornhusker (Mar 20, 2003)

painterswife said:


> You seem to want to keep twisting things. I did not say that my opinion meant any more than yours. *If I did not write it then I did not mean it*.


You stated my opinion "just don't mean a whole bunch" because I don't know why those women took the actions they did.
You then admitted you don't know why either.
Those were your words.


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## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

Cornhusker said:


> You stated my opinion "just don't mean a whole bunch" because I don't know why those women took the actions they did.
> You then admitted you don't know why either.
> Those were your words.


Maybe if you stopped reading things into my words that are not there you would understand.

You don't know why they did it.
I don't know why they did it.
Your opinion therefore on the reason means nothing
My opinion on the reason therefore means nothing.

Those are my words. Nothing more nothing less.


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## Cornhusker (Mar 20, 2003)

Bearfootfarm said:


> LOL
> 
> Then why keep doing it?
> 
> (Don't bother to answer)


Y'know, I was trying to have a conversation with someone, when you decided to pile on.
It's always the same, if someone disagrees, you all gather the troops and pile on.


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## Cornhusker (Mar 20, 2003)

painterswife said:


> Maybe if you stopped reading things into my words that are not there you would understand.
> 
> You don't know why they did it.
> I don't know why they did it.
> ...


That's the first time you admitted that in this thread.
Again, we are in agreement, we just had to get together on the wording.



painterswife said:


> *If I did not write it then I did not mean it*.


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## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

Cornhusker said:


> That's the first time you admitted that in this thread.
> Again, we are in agreement, we just had to get together on the wording.


If I didn't write it then why do I have to go in circles because you misread things?


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## Cornhusker (Mar 20, 2003)

painterswife said:


> If I didn't write it then why do I have to go in circles because you misread things?


You didn't have to go in circles


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## Truckinguy (Mar 8, 2008)

I think the percentage of women who kill their babies that are self absorbed or natural born killers is very small, perhaps minuscule. The vast majority of these women (and girls) are scared, overwhelmed, alone and likely have a lot more going on in their lives than we know.

A mother's protection of her children is one of the most basic, deeply ingrained instincts we have as humans as evidenced by the many stories of mothers performing feats of superhuman strength or placing their own lives in harms way to ensure the safety of their children. To go against this instinct is an indication of the level of desperation these women have sunk to. It is the same place that people end up in when they commit suicide. The preservation of one's own life is another of those deeply ingrained instincts, basically permanently carved into our DNA.

If one is in the position to go against any of these basic instincts they are in a place that is the darkest, coldest, loneliest place you can imagine. In a way I'm glad that there are some people who don't understand it because it means they have never been there and it's a terrible place to be. When someone looks into the Abyss and finds comfort there they have gone far beyond what most people consider rational thinking. If a women is self absorbed and doesn't want to go through with the pregnancy there are other ways to terminate it long before the child is born. If a woman isn't able to use other alternatives for whatever reason the situation becomes very real very fast when the child is born and, if other circumstances in her life are already intolerable it can easily push her over the edge. 

In no way does this excuse the crime and there should be fitting punishment for it. However, understanding why people do these things in the first place instead of just writing them off as being self absorbed or just killers will go a long way toward helping to prevent these situations in the first place. Of course, there will always be a certain percentage of people across the board who are born without empathy or just plain have a screw loose but the vast majority of people have a basic desire to do good and be happy.


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## Shine (Feb 19, 2011)

Bearfootfarm said:


> You always seem to forget "for you" *only* means "for you"


Wow, you are really sharp... I'm pretty sure that when I put the words "for me" I was clearly defining the situation where I was offering my opinion. You thought that that needed further clarification? Or were you typing just to see your words in print with some sort of a retort?

Now, if I did start a sentence with "for me" do you think that I forgot their meaning when I finished the sentence that portrayed my opinion to others?


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

Shine said:


> *Wow, you are really sharp.*.. I'm pretty sure that when I put the words "for me" I was clearly defining the situation where I was offering my opinion. You thought that that needed further clarification? Or were you typing just to see your words in print with some sort of a retort?
> 
> Now, if I did start a sentence with "for me" do you think that I forgot their meaning when I finished the sentence that portrayed my opinion to others?


You were offering the "opinion" that a legal abortion and murder are the same thing, and implying everyone should see it the same way or they weren't "rational".

Go back and read it all in context:





> Yes, *in one side of your brain, out the other side*. It still does not compute. The same outcome. You are right, one is legal the other is not but, how is it any different with what happens in the end being exactly the same, a dead child, one born, the other unborn, how can you use artful terms to justify one and be offended by the other?
> 
> *Here it is laid out all nice and neat for you*. How can you stand behind one and rail against the other, it is *not rational*.
> 
> For me, both are the same action.


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## Shine (Feb 19, 2011)

Bearfootfarm said:


> You were offering the "opinion" that a legal abortion and murder are the same thing, and implying everyone should see it the same way or they weren't "rational".
> 
> Go back and read it all in context:


Wow, just wow. So, by your reckoning, if someone supplies another with their opinion then I am guessing that you feel that they somehow require everyone else to fall in line with that opinion?

You really take the cake...


BTW, I was asking you questions, you put your effort into twisting the questions into an attack so you would not have to answer the question(s) - run of the mill...

Nice chatting with you...


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

Shine said:


> Wow, just wow. So, by your reckoning, if someone supplies another with their opinion then I am guessing that you feel that they somehow require everyone else to fall in line with that opinion?
> 
> You really take the cake...
> 
> ...


Let's not play the silly "attack/victim/you won't answer" games again.
It's been done to death.

You clearly said anyone who didn't see things your way was not rational and anyone who has an abortion is a "murderer".



> How can you stand behind one and rail against the other, it is *not rational*.


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## Shine (Feb 19, 2011)

Bearfootfarm said:


> Let's not play the silly "attack/victim/you won't answer" games again.
> It's been done to death.
> 
> You clearly said anyone who didn't see things your way was not rational and anyone who has an abortion is a "murderer".


OK, then I would not expect anything different from someone who did not respond in a rational manner.

The post that you attacked only asked this:
A 5 month old unborn baby is 20 weeks old.
The law allows a woman to abort the growth in her body for the most part up until 12 weeks.

If you are offended by the account of the mother who dosed herself and then disposed of her 5 month old unborn child, then how is it that you are 100% behind allowing a mother the control of the unborn child who is only 8 weeks younger?

This is what I was referring to as irrational. And so you cannot use this to attack me, it my opinion, and my opinion alone, it is what I feel in my heart.

Now, will you share what you understand so that I might interpret it so that I too might grow?


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## wr (Aug 10, 2003)

Shine said:


> OK, then I would not expect anything different from someone who did not respond in a rational manner.
> 
> The post that you attacked only asked this:
> A 5 month old unborn baby is 20 weeks old.
> ...



How does this all tie back to pagan rituals?


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

> *The post that you attacked* only asked this:
> A 5 month old unborn baby is 20 weeks old.
> The law allows a woman to abort the growth in her body for the most part up until 12 weeks.


I didn't attack anything at all
I pointed out what you said by quoting it

Also, several states allow abortions beyond 20 weeks so your facts are off.
No fetus younger than 21 weeks has ever survived on it's own.



> Now, will you share what you understand so that I might interpret it so that I too might grow?


You're again asking questions already answered
If you want to "grow", stop calling people murderers when they are not, and stop *pretending* you're always under "attack" just because not everyone agrees with everything you say.


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

http://www.texasrighttolife.com/a/5...-Fetal-Remains-Found-in-Dumpster#.VrxRLL2sIpl

It seems your second link is at least 5 years old, and was pure emotional hype since it states there was *nothing illegal* about the way those aborted fetuses and tissues were disposed of.



> They discovered seventeen large trash bags that contained the aborted remains of the seventeen babies, as well as bloody surgical material and used urine cups. Veneklase and Miller photographed and documented all of their findings.
> 
> Sadly, they were told by the state that *it is not illegal for abortion mills to dispose of the crushed remains of aborted babies in dumpsters, as long as they were fixed in formalin solutions as were these babies*.


Note the emotional buzzwords "abortion mills" and "babies"

http://clinicquotes.com/unborn-babies-found-in-trash-from-mine-eyes-have-seen-the-glory/

That link is the same story as the other, and details how these people went "dumpster-diving" at a clinic trying to find evidence of some crime, but they failed


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

wr said:


> How does this all tie back to pagan rituals?


I think that's a fantasy from the Deacon designed to bring in donations.
He has lot's of irons in the fire:

http://www.kopel.com/shs72/KAFBIO.htm


> Keith A. Fournier is a *Constitutional Lawyer, public policy activist* and a Deacon of the Catholic Church. He currently serves as the "Thomas More Fellow in Law and Public Policy" of the "Liberty, Life and Family Institute". He is a founder, and former President, of Catholic Alliance; a lay Catholic Citizenâs Movement dedicated to life, family, authentic freedom, and solidarity with the poor and the needy.
> 
> He now serves as Chaplain to Catholic Alliance and is the Director of both its "Bishops Advisory Council" and "Clerical Advisory Board".


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## Cornhusker (Mar 20, 2003)

Bearfootfarm said:


> Also, several states allow abortions beyond 20 weeks so your facts are off.
> No fetus younger than 21 weeks has ever survived on it's own.


I've never heard of f fetus older than 21 weeks surviving on it's own.
Usually, someone takes care of them for a few years.


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## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

Sigh. Breath on it's own, basically. How hard a concept is it to grasp? Viability is the age in which a fetus can survive outside the uterus. Not by itself without help, that's just foolish. :facepalm:


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

Cornhusker said:


> *I've never heard of* f fetus older than 21 weeks surviving on it's own.
> Usually, someone takes care of them for a few years.


Have you ever heard of " fetal viability"?










https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fetal_viability


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

City Bound said:


> These people get a great deal of help and it is all free but they still chose to toss children in garbage cans.
> 
> There is even free birth control available to many people and they chose not to use it.


Not in Texas.


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## Cornhusker (Mar 20, 2003)

Bearfootfarm said:


> Have you ever heard of " fetal viability"?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Yes actually, I have heard of it.


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## Annsni (Oct 27, 2006)

Bearfootfarm said:


> Have you ever heard of " fetal viability"?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I guess you missed the pun. Even a full term born child cannot survive on it's own and needs care. In some cases, these children cannot survive on their own for up to 18+ years.


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

Annsni said:


> I guess you *missed the pun*. Even a full term born child cannot survive on it's own and needs care. In some cases, these children cannot survive on their own for up to 18+ years.


No, I didn't miss it.
That was just him pretending he didn't understand what I really meant.
I know he's smarter than he acts sometimes


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## Cornhusker (Mar 20, 2003)

Bearfootfarm said:


> No, I didn't miss it.
> That was just him pretending he didn't understand what I really meant.
> I know he's smarter than he acts sometimes


No I'm not...oh wait.....:hysterical:
I just got chewed out for not taking a poster's meaning as it was typed.
Now I'm a bad guy for taking you at your typed word.
Please forgive my confusion.
maybe you should bring it up at the next board meeting and get everybody on the same page?


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## Shine (Feb 19, 2011)

Bearfootfarm said:


> I didn't attack anything at all
> I pointed out what you said by quoting it
> 
> Also, several states allow abortions beyond 20 weeks so your facts are off.
> ...


Didn't answer the simple question again.


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## Shine (Feb 19, 2011)

wr said:


> How does this all tie back to pagan rituals?


The first citation linked the behavior back to pagan rituals where women, for whatever reason, placed their unwanted children in different locations so as to dispose of them, I do not think that there were any sort of supporting rituals behind them and that it was just more of an accepted practice of past times. 

This citation was what drew me to the point of asking the "dead babies in the trash" question from google, I was somewhat dismayed at the stories that were returned and started this thread. The point being is that I am unsettled by two things, 1. that this practice does indeed occur within our current world and 2. is there a parallel between this practice and abortion.

The intent of this thread is to explore those connections.


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## dixiegal62 (Aug 18, 2007)

Annsni said:


> I guess you missed the pun. Even a full term born child cannot survive on it's own and needs care. In some cases, these children cannot survive on their own for up to 18+ years.


I've met a few that couldn't do that in their 30s!


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

Cornhusker said:


> No I'm not...oh wait.....:hysterical:
> I just got chewed out for not taking a poster's meaning as it was typed.
> Now I'm a bad guy for taking you at your typed word.
> Please forgive my confusion.
> maybe you should bring it up at the next board meeting and get everybody on the same page?


You're not confused nearly as often as you pretend to be
Let's just be real


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

Shine said:


> Didn't answer the simple question again.


Repeat the "simple question"



> 1. that this practice does indeed occur within our current world and 2. is there a parallel between this practice and abortion.
> 
> The intent of this thread is to explore those connections.


There's no parallel between those illegal acts and legal abortions. 
(Although 2 of your links had nothing to do with anything criminal)

One is a crime and the other is someone else's business

I'm not sure why you're surprised it happens though, when your own source said it's gone on for thousands of years. 

That tells me it's just human nature which actually mimics the behavior of many animals


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## wr (Aug 10, 2003)

Shine said:


> The first citation linked the behavior back to pagan rituals where women, for whatever reason, placed their unwanted children in different locations so as to dispose of them, I do not think that there were any sort of supporting rituals behind them and that it was just more of an accepted practice of past times.
> 
> This citation was what drew me to the point of asking the "dead babies in the trash" question from google, I was somewhat dismayed at the stories that were returned and started this thread. The point being is that I am unsettled by two things, 1. that this practice does indeed occur within our current world and 2. is there a parallel between this practice and abortion.
> 
> The intent of this thread is to explore those connections.


Some cultures put unwanted virgins in various locations and disposed of them but I believe they were considered a sacrifice, not a way to get rid of a problem. 

I drew different conclusions than you did from your articles. They, additional research and a knowledge of various cultures lead me to believe that regardless of abortion laws, women have always found ways to abort, if they so desire. 

Those that toss babies in dumpsters are a whole different thing and the few situations I've seen seem to relate to mental illness.


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## Shine (Feb 19, 2011)

Bearfootfarm said:


> Repeat the "simple question"



A 5 month old unborn baby is 20 weeks old.
The law allows a woman to abort the growth in her body for the most part up until 12 weeks.

If you are offended by the account of the mother who dosed herself and then disposed of her 5 month old unborn child, then how is it that you are 100% behind allowing a mother the control of the unborn child who is only 8 weeks younger?


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## Shine (Feb 19, 2011)

wr said:


> Some cultures put unwanted virgins in various locations and disposed of them but I believe they were considered a sacrifice, not a way to get rid of a problem.
> 
> I drew different conclusions than you did from your articles. They, additional research and a knowledge of various cultures lead me to believe that regardless of abortion laws, women have always found ways to abort, if they so desire.
> 
> Those that toss babies in dumpsters are a whole different thing and the few situations I've seen seem to relate to mental illness.


Thanks for your reply. I too would think that the killing of an offspring by ones mother would have to be indicative of some sort of a misalignment somewhere in the make up of the mother so you see my dilemma regarding the rest of my inability to understand the massive need for abortion.

And I cannot imagine what tragic side effects haunt whatever portion of women who find that they made an error in getting the procedure done.

The subject did come up for me and I made what I feel was the proper call twice, [no I am not a female but I was a member of the conception team] and I am rewarded with two gifts from God Himself.


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## wr (Aug 10, 2003)

Shine said:


> A 5 month old unborn baby is 20 weeks old.
> The law allows a woman to abort the growth in her body for the most part up until 12 weeks.
> 
> If you are offended by the account of the mother who dosed herself and then disposed of her 5 month old unborn child, then how is it that you are 100% behind allowing a mother the control of the unborn child who is only 8 weeks younger?


I don't think anyone here would advocate that a woman self administer any medication to achieve an abortion because the child has a very significant chance of being born with profound birth defects.


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

Shine said:


> A 5 month old unborn baby is 20 weeks old.
> The law allows a woman to abort the growth in her body for the most part up until 12 weeks.
> 
> *If you are offended* by the account of the mother who dosed herself and then disposed of her 5 month old unborn child, then how is it that you are 100% behind allowing a mother the control of the unborn child who is only 8 weeks younger?


You're the one acting all "offended", not me.

I just accept it as a reality *beyond my control* and don't agonize over it.
She obviously has mental issues and it's probably better for the child to not have to depend on her as a caretaker

Many of those who complain about 11 million unwanted illegal aliens claim they would be happier with 50 million unwanted children

You also *still* have your facts wrong about how late abortions are allowed


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## Shine (Feb 19, 2011)

Bearfootfarm said:


> You're the one acting all "offended", not me.
> 
> I just accept it as a reality *beyond my control* and don't agonize over it.
> She obviously has mental issues and it's probably better for the child to not have to depend on her as a caretaker
> ...


I tend to choose to show at least a bit of honor to those that limit abortions at the earliest point. You see, 24 weeks is 6 months, the mother in the question was inside of the legal age group, So, let me get this correct, you are not offended by the manner in which she destroyed her unborn child? And what she did with it's lifeless body does not bother you?

Or is it that you accept what she did but do not accept what she did with the corpse?

Wow, its only been 11 million illegal immigrants since '74. And if the truth be known, yes, I would be happier should the 50,000,000 lives had not had been snuffed out before they had the chance to experience life, life quite similar to the gift of life that you received.

If you are happy with your life, you should feel very lucky, it seems that women have been aborting babies since the beginning of time... You escaped that end, I almost did not. Thank the Heavens for abortion laws...


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

> Or is it that you accept what she did but do not accept what she did with the corpse?


Why do you just keep repeating the same questions?



> If you are happy with your life, you should feel very lucky


If you are *un*happy, you have no one to blame other than yourself

You seem to spend an inordinate amount of time agonizing about things over which you have no control.

Don't worry..........be happy.


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## Cornhusker (Mar 20, 2003)

Bearfootfarm said:


> Why do you just keep repeating the same questions?
> 
> 
> If you are *un*happy, you have no one to blame other than yourself
> ...


Oh great...Now I'll have that stuck in my head all night.


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## wr (Aug 10, 2003)

Cornhusker said:


> Oh great...Now I'll have that stuck in my head all night.


It's stuck in mine too now


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## Annsni (Oct 27, 2006)

Shine said:


> The law allows a woman to abort the growth in her body


The unborn child is not a "growth". It is a small human being.


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## Evons hubby (Oct 3, 2005)

Cornhusker said:


> Or because they are self absorbed, slackers who don't care about anybody but themselves?
> Or maybe they are bloodthirsty killers who have no regard for human life.
> What kind of person could throw a baby in the trash?
> What kind of person would defend that person?


What kind of person would defend that kind of person?

A lawyer!


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## farmrbrown (Jun 25, 2012)

Yvonne's hubby said:


> What kind of person would defend that kind of person?
> 
> A lawyer!


And in the "Best answer of the Day" category, the winner is.................:bouncy:


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