# Experiences with VoIP?



## Kung (Jan 19, 2004)

Suffice to say that my local phone company (who also provides our long distance and DSL service) has screwed up our phone bill yet again - for the FIFTH month in a row. We got it straightened out but I'm TIRED of dealing with them.

So, I'm either going to

a) install an amplifier to amplify our cell phone signal and use that as our main phone, or

b) use VoIP (such as Vonage).

Have done the first, not the second...anyone ever use Vonage (or CallVantage)? Thoughts?


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## Gary in ohio (May 11, 2002)

I have used packnet(i think now defunct), vonage and currently have roadrunner VOIP and love it. Vonage will use your existing DSL so if your having problems with that your going to have issues with your voip as well.


The key thing with VOIP is remembers that if your network is down so is your phone. You need to make sure your have a BIG UPS dedicated to your router/voip gear so you keep phone service during power outages. Voice quality was good over vonage and RR prices are around $25/month, you get free LD and various advanced features. On my RR I dont see any network slow downs when using VOIP but if you have a low speed DSL you need to keep in mind 64kb/sec of bandwidth is taken up by a call so a 128kb DSL bandwith will be cut in half when using the phone. Most VOIP routers plug in ahead of a router so the vendor can do quality of service so if you have some heavily modified router tables or do a lot of specialized NAT translations you may need to rework that


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## Jack T. (Feb 11, 2008)

Had AT&T VoIP before moving back to Oklahoma. Kinda cool technology. Really cool, actually. It's a lot like email. . .except it's phone service.

There was no "long distance". . .have to dial all ten numbers whether you're calling your neighbor across the street or your mom across the country.

We were able to get two phone numbers, and have one forwarded to the other. . .just like you would with email. That meant that we got a number in my parent's hometown, so they could call *us* for free even though we lived across the country.

If you move, you just pick up the VoIP box, take it with you, and plug it in when you get where you're going. . .also works for hotels and such. Any place that has a network connection.

Online voicemail, email alerts, change the voicemail message online, pretty slick setup.

I can't say how good low-end DSL will work with it. . .I haven't kept up with it, so I don't know what the bandwidth requirements are now. I also don't know if they've gotten the 911 issues ironed out. Since you don't have a physical line running to a permanent location, you don't get the "benefits" of 911 having enhanced caller-id info.


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## OntarioMan (Feb 11, 2007)

Voip is especially good if you make lots of long distance calls or need a number in another area code - and voip works well.

One problem with voip over DSL is you're left paying for a "naked DSL" line, which is probably half the price of your wired phone line.

Here, the availability of voip has really dropped the price of traditional phone lines, and even spurred the availability of free long distance over those line.

Just using cell is becoming more popular all the time - some great plans out there - and really, how many phone lines/numbers do you need?

I suppose it all depends on what is the most cost effective.


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## Nevada (Sep 9, 2004)

VoIP is all I use now. Like you, I'm using the phone company for my DSL service, but my 1-year obligation is up at the end of the year so I'll be going to a high-speed wireless service and dropping the traditional phone service.

I didn't find Vonage to be all that reliable, and it's pretty pricey for VoIP service. Sometimes I would talk for 15-20 minutes and the call would drop. I haven't had that problem with Skype, and Skype costs a fraction of what Vonage costs. Skype is $2.95/month for unlimited outgoing calls, with free long distance to US & Canada included. To get a Skype phone number, I pay $24/year ($2/month). So for full unlimited phone service (both in and out) it's about $5/month.

There's lots of Skype gear available at eBay. USB phones to plug into your computer (you can even get those at WalMart), USB routers to work with your existing phones, and even Skype wifi phones that connect directly any wireless Internet router without a computer (those are about $100 though, but you can use them around town at free wireless hotspots).

I'm using a headset plugged directly into the sound jacks on my laptop, which I paid about $7 for. You can use an inexpensive headset if you have a full-duplex sound board, but if not you and the people you call will hear an echo. If you want to go that route you might test a mic along with your speakers just to see if there's an echo.

Check it out. http://skype.com

Skype happens to be a subsidiary of the eBay/PayPal empire.


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## backwoodsman7 (Mar 22, 2007)

Nevada said:


> Skype happens to be a subsidiary of the eBay/PayPal empire.


Which raises the question: How's their customer service? Do they even _have_ customer service?


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## Kung (Jan 19, 2004)

Nevada said:


> I didn't find Vonage to be all that reliable, and it's pretty pricey for VoIP service. Sometimes I would talk for 15-20 minutes and the call would drop. I haven't had that problem with Skype, and Skype costs a fraction of what Vonage costs. Skype is $2.95/month for unlimited outgoing calls, with free long distance to US & Canada included. To get a Skype phone number, I pay $24/year ($2/month). So for full unlimited phone service (both in and out) it's about $5/month.


Yeah, but can you define 'all that reliable' for me? If it's not that reliable I'd rather just install an amplifier for our cell phones.


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## Nevada (Sep 9, 2004)

backwoodsman7 said:


> Which raises the question: How's their customer service? Do they even _have_ customer service?


I honestly don't know. I've never needed support of any kind with Skype.



Kung said:


> Yeah, but can you define 'all that reliable' for me? If it's not that reliable I'd rather just install an amplifier for our cell phones.


The reliability of Skype is good, but there are inherent problems with VoIP that I don't think any VoIP service can overcome with the current technology.

The main problem is that VoIP always has a slight delay, similar to the delay experienced with a cell phones (both are "routed" calls, as opposed to being "switched" calls with traditional phone service). As you know, when you call another cell phone with a cell phone the delay is a lot worse than if you call a traditional land line. VoIP calls have a similar delay to that of a cell phone, so you need to be patient when you call cell phones with Skype.

Another problem is that the call quality is dependent on the quality of your high-speed Internet connection. If your ISP doesn't respect the VoIP protocol then you're out of luck. Needless to say, you are out of luck if your high speed Internet is a satellite connection, since the delay is way too long.

The best thing I can suggest is to try the Skype-out service for a month and see how it works for you. Just sign-up for a month at $2.95 and cancel at any time. Skype doesn't require a long-term contract.


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## Kung (Jan 19, 2004)

Well, after looking into it, I'll most likely go ahead and take a plunge with Skype, for one main reason - its cost.


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## Nevada (Sep 9, 2004)

Kung said:


> Well, after looking into it, I'll most likely go ahead and take a plunge with Skype, for one main reason - its cost.


Can't go too wrong with $2.95/month.


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## Kung (Jan 19, 2004)

Well, I tried out the 'call here to check your voice' thing, and I notice some dropping off of my voice - enough that I am not too sure I'd want to make this my sole source of phone conversations. And I'd noticed that the Skype port was prioritized.

Any suggestions on how to further prioritize? If not, it simply may be that my DSL connection isn't high quality enough.


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## Nevada (Sep 9, 2004)

Kung said:


> Well, I tried out the 'call here to check your voice' thing, and I notice some dropping off of my voice - enough that I am not too sure I'd want to make this my sole source of phone conversations. And I'd noticed that the Skype port was prioritized.
> 
> Any suggestions on how to further prioritize? If not, it simply may be that my DSL connection isn't high quality enough.


It may be your mic. Some noise canceling mics drop-off completely when the volume falls to a certain level.

If you want to test your DSL service for VoIP taking Skype out of the loop you might try EvaPhone. That's a web-based VoIP service that allows you to make free 6.5 minute domestic telephone calls from your web browser. There is nothing to download and no account of any kind necessary. Just go to that web site and make your call.

http://evaphone.com/

That service is particularly useful for people who use public computers that don't allow applications like Skype to be downloaded & installed, yet still need VoIP service. Besides, you can't go wrong with free.


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## Kung (Jan 19, 2004)

Nevada said:


> It may be your mic. Some noise canceling mics drop-off completely when the volume falls to a certain level.


I used my Jawbone bluetooth headset.



> If you want to test your DSL service for VoIP taking Skype out of the loop you might try EvaPhone. That's a web-based VoIP service that allows you to make free 6.5 minute domestic telephone calls from your web browser. There is nothing to download and no account of any kind necessary. Just go to that web site and make your call.
> 
> http://evaphone.com/
> 
> That service is particularly useful for people who use public computers that don't allow applications like Skype to be downloaded & installed, yet still need VoIP service. Besides, you can't go wrong with free.


I may try that out.


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## Cyngbaeld (May 20, 2004)

Can I ask another question? How would VoIP work with satellite? I cannot get DSL here and our phone service is lousy and expensive.


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## Kung (Jan 19, 2004)

Simply put, it wouldn't. It doesn't always work that well with DSL or cable *IF* the upload or download speed aren't high enough, and/or the routing tables in your equipment aren't 'QoS' optimized for VoIP.

To add insult to injury, with satellite internet it operates in 'bursts', with a much higher latency than DSL or cable. With DSL or cable, only the speed of the wire (and whatever speed DSL or cable you have) is the limiting factor. With satellite, however, you have to go from your computer to the satellite dish, to the satellite itself, to the satellite receiving station, and THEN from there to the person you call...and back.

On top of THAT, you have atmospheric considerations. So simply put, unless you can get DSL or cable (or possibly wireless line of sight) where you live, your only bet (if this is a 'bet') might be to use cell phones instead. We're thinking about doing that.


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## BeaG (Aug 21, 2008)

The other day, I saw a little unit called a "magicjack" advertized on TV. It claims to be PC magazine's 2008 Product of the year. It is a little phone jack that plugs into a USB port. The claim is that you can use any household phone and talk for free anywhere in the US or Canada. 

Here is a link to the site: http://www.magicjack.com/1/index.asp 

Has anyone had any experience with this item?


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## Nevada (Sep 9, 2004)

BeaG said:


> The other day, I saw a little unit called a "magicjack" advertized on TV. It claims to be PC magazine's 2008 Product of the year. It is a little phone jack that plugs into a USB port. The claim is that you can use any household phone and talk for free anywhere in the US or Canada.
> 
> Here is a link to the site: http://www.magicjack.com/1/index.asp
> 
> Has anyone had any experience with this item?


Well, the jack is $40, which includes 1 year of service. After that it's $20/year for service. I've read that it's partially advertising supported, so you have to agree to allowing spyware in your computer. That's not a bad price, considering that Skype is about $30/year. Other than that I haven't tried it myself so I don't know.


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## BeaG (Aug 21, 2008)

Nevada,

Thanks for the information on magicjack. I'm glad I asked. I do not want spyware on my computer, and I do not need any more advertising than I already get. I do need a better phone service, but would be willing to pay the Skype price (only $10 more per year) rather than agreeing to spyware. 

I'll have to think about it some more.... Thanks again.


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## Nevada (Sep 9, 2004)

BeaG said:


> I'll have to think about it some more.... Thanks again.


Try Skype for a month for $2.95 and see what you think.


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## hobbyfarmer (Oct 10, 2007)

Well, it looks like you've already made your decision so you may not need to hear about any more experiences but ..just in case anyone else is reading along and considering Vonage, my advice would be "don't do it". Run the other way as fast as possible.

We had horrible call quality with our local phone co. but our DSL is fairly reliable so we thought we would give Vonage a try. DH specifically asked if there was a commitment to try it and the operator assured him that this was a month-to-month service. He was told -"Give us a try and if you aren't completely satisfied you can cancel at any time." Well, the number of dropped calls is ridiculous and I lost track of how many times we have to dial and redial a number to get through. But when we tried to cancel it we were told we would be charged for the rest of the year in one lump sum on our credit card. What about their "no contract" offer? The Vonage rep now says that although they don't call it a commitment, per se, they consider it a good faith agreement. ???? We can't get anywhere with these people at Vonage and they have no intention of honoring the original satisfaction guaranteed offer. I told the operator that we would be telling everyone we know about their bad call quality and the dishonest customer service agreement and she said "I know, we get that a lot. It's okay."

:bash:


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## backwoodsman7 (Mar 22, 2007)

hobbyfarmer said:


> We can't get anywhere with these people at Vonage and they have no intention of honoring the original satisfaction guaranteed offer.


That's what chargebacks are for. Cancel the service, and if they charge anything to your card after that, call your credit card issuer and contest the charge. They'll take your money back from Vonage, and charge them a fee as well.

If more people did that, it wouldn't be profitable for Vonage to rip off customers like that. But they're betting that enough people will just keep paying instead of cancelling, to pay for the chargeback fees they get, and apparently it works out well for them.


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## Nevada (Sep 9, 2004)

hobbyfarmer said:


> We had horrible call quality with our local phone co. but our DSL is fairly reliable so we thought we would give Vonage a try.


Vonage got a good start a while back, and offered a service that was competitively priced (considering that unmeasured long distance was included), but that was 5 years ago. Today nothing over $5/month is competitive, and that should include a dial-in phone number. Despite the $25/month pricetag, Vonage is no better that any other VoIP service.

The honest truth is that most call quality problems with VoIP are really with your ISP, not with the VoIP carrier.


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## Cyngbaeld (May 20, 2004)

Kung said:


> Simply put, it wouldn't. It doesn't always work that well with DSL or cable *IF* the upload or download speed aren't high enough, and/or the routing tables in your equipment aren't 'QoS' optimized for VoIP.
> 
> To add insult to injury, with satellite internet it operates in 'bursts', with a much higher latency than DSL or cable. With DSL or cable, only the speed of the wire (and whatever speed DSL or cable you have) is the limiting factor. With satellite, however, you have to go from your computer to the satellite dish, to the satellite itself, to the satellite receiving station, and THEN from there to the person you call...and back.
> 
> On top of THAT, you have atmospheric considerations. So simply put, unless you can get DSL or cable (or possibly wireless line of sight) where you live, your only bet (if this is a 'bet') might be to use cell phones instead. We're thinking about doing that.


Thanks, Matt. Cell phone service is iffy here too. It would really help if the phones didn't go out when it rains and if my calls would come thru more reliably. I HATE Verizon!


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## Nevada (Sep 9, 2004)

Cyngbaeld said:


> Thanks, Matt. Cell phone service is iffy here too. It would really help if the phones didn't go out when it rains and if my calls would come thru more reliably. I HATE Verizon!


Yeah, Verizon sucks. I'd like to see that idiot who walks around asking "can you hear me now?" try it around here. He wouldn't get much.

But you may get some usage similar to the capabilities of a cell phone with Skype in some communities. City-wide hotspots are becoming common and affordable. If you get a city-wide wifi, account you could use a Skype wifi phone as a mobile phone. You would need a phone like this one.

http://cgi.ebay.com/Netgear-SPH101-Skype-Wireless-VoIP-Wi-Fi-Phone_W0QQitemZ110292256705

Even if you don't have city-wide wifi service, you can still connect to your own wireless router and talk within a few hundred feet of the router, and at any free wifi hotspots around town. Every small town has a few.


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## hobbyfarmer (Oct 10, 2007)

backwoodsman7 said:


> That's what chargebacks are for.
> 
> If more people did that, it wouldn't be profitable for Vonage to rip off customers like that. But they're betting that enough people will just keep paying instead of cancelling, to pay for the chargeback fees they get, and apparently it works out well for them.



You know, I never considered contesting the charge after the fact. I'll look into that. Thanks!


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## Kung (Jan 19, 2004)

Well, after talking with the local DSL guy today I'm DEFINITELY not going with VoIP.

Basically, since I'm at like 17,400 feet (the limit for 1.5Mbps DSL is 18000), it's tough for them to sustain me at 1.5Mbps. They can do it (they had to change this and that at the switch and on my modem) but not at 3Mbps.

ANYWAYS....there's normally a 'noise' limit of like 12Db, and I'm at 9. They can make do with that; but it's that noise limit being lower than it should which would drop the calls left and right.

BUT, we get about 3 to 4 bars on our cell in half of the house....

...and I found a nifty device that allows you to sync your cell phone to the base unit via Bluetooth, and then to any regular phone you want. So I can increase my minutes, leave my cell phone where it gets the most signal, and then use OTHER phones through my cell phone to make calls. AND save money.


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## BeaG (Aug 21, 2008)

Nevada: 

thanks for your help, and your suggestion that I try Skype. I have been "mulling" about it. I read all that I could about Skype on their website, and looked at some other blogs about it. One thing that I did not want to do was to use a headset, or to use the mic and speakers on the computer. I wanted a regular phone. Also, I did not want to leave my computer running all the time. I was ok with leaving the modem on, but not the computer and monitor. After reading about all the options, I think that I will make a one-time investment in some hardware, and then see about signing up for Skype. 

I purchased a cable/dsl router with 4 ports. It cost about $53., including some extra cables and the shipping. That is a purchase that I can use anyway, because I have more than one computer in the house, and only one hooked up to the internet. 

Once I have the router working with my computer, so that I know that is all ok, I will purchase Skype. With a year's purchase, (approx. $36), I can get an on-line phone number for another $30 a year. 

Then I will make another hardware investment, and purchase a phone that I can attach to my modem via my router. I am looking at one called "Belkin F1PP010EN-SK Desktop Internet Phone for Skype". (Another $80). If all works as advertised, I can leave my modem and my router on, but turn off my computer and my monitor when I want, and still get incoming calls, as well as make outgoing calls.

If I am calculating correctly, after an initial investment of $135 in hardware, I can have a "normal" phone for $66 a year instead of the approximately $648 a year that I am now paying to Verizon.

I am telling you all of this because I wish to have an opinion from you. What do you think? Have I made some errors in my thinking? I would be good to know before I spend more money.

Thanks so much.


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## Nevada (Sep 9, 2004)

BeaG said:


> Then I will make another hardware investment, and purchase a phone that I can attach to my modem via my router. I am looking at one called "Belkin F1PP010EN-SK Desktop Internet Phone for Skype". (Another $80).


You didn't say if your router had wireless capabilities. The Belkin phone will require wireless.

Actually, the desk phone is fine, but costs about what the portable Netgear phone I provided a link for costs. The portable model would seem to have more utility value.


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## BeaG (Aug 21, 2008)

Thanks Nevada. The wireless capability is something that I had overlooked. The ad looked like I could just hook the Belkin F1PP010EN-SK Desktop phone up to my router with a cable. I will do a bit more research before purchasing anything. 

(Again, I'm glad I asked.)

I'll let you know how it all works out. It may take 3-4 weeks.


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## Nevada (Sep 9, 2004)

BeaG said:


> Thanks Nevada. The wireless capability is something that I had overlooked. The ad looked like I could just hook the Belkin F1PP010EN-SK Desktop phone up to my router with a cable. I will do a bit more research before purchasing anything.
> 
> (Again, I'm glad I asked.)
> 
> I'll let you know how it all works out. It may take 3-4 weeks.


Another thing, no doubt a portion of your $60 phone bill is for high-speed Internet, which you'll still need from someplace. You need to factor-in the cost of cable or DSL service.


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## BeaG (Aug 21, 2008)

Nevada:
Actually, my current phone bill is $53., and my high speed internet is another $64. That's why I am trying to get rid of my phone bill. I did not even include the cost of the internet in my previous discussion, because I knew that it would stay the same. It just costs too much altogether for both right now.

Here is a link to the desktop phone I was considering. Doesn't it look to you like it uses cable, not a wireless link? That's how it looked to me. It is being sold on Amazon.com

http://www.amazon.com/Belkin-F1PP010EN-SK-Desktop-Internet-Phone/dp/B00158UZTW/ref=pd_sim_e_15

Thanks again.


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## Nevada (Sep 9, 2004)

BeaG said:


> Here is a link to the desktop phone I was considering. Doesn't it look to you like it uses cable, not a wireless link? That's how it looked to me. It is being sold on Amazon.com
> 
> http://www.amazon.com/Belkin-F1PP010EN-SK-Desktop-Internet-Phone/dp/B00158UZTW/ref=pd_sim_e_15
> 
> Thanks again.


Under Technical Details, click the More Technical Details link. It will take you to this page.

http://www.amazon.com/Belkin-F1PP01...t-Phone/dp/tech-data/B00158UZTW/ref=de_a_smtd

Note that the Connectivity Technology is Wireless.

You should be able to find a D-Link wireless router for not much at eBay. Here's one for $15 (plus $7.20 shipping).

http://cgi.ebay.com/D-LINK-WIRELESS-ROUTER-WBR-1310-CHEAP-PRICE_W0QQitemZ120321136101


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## BeaG (Aug 21, 2008)

Wow! Again, thanks so much for taking your time to help me in this detailed way. I did not find that technical detail about wireless connectivity until you pointed it out. I'll let you know, (when all is done), how I made out.


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## manfred (Dec 21, 2005)

I use a service called : iconnecthere.com. Have used it for about 10 years. I only have dial-up but this service has an 800 number that connects you. I call Russia about 10 times per month. Really good, reliable service.


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## preecher97 (Oct 9, 2008)

I have the MagicJack. Had it for about 2 months and have had decent service. We have broadband and it seems to work ok. My Dad says I sound like I'm in a barrel when I talk with him. So far we have not had any advertisements pop up. Good luck


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## Nevada (Sep 9, 2004)

preecher97 said:


> My Dad says I sound like I'm in a barrel when I talk with him.


I had that with a Skype router once. It was the router itself making that sound. I switched to a good one and the problem went away. I suspect the problem is in your MagicJack.


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## Aohtee (Aug 26, 2003)

Skype is fine as long as you don't need customer service. 

I signed up for their service in June. Started with a head set but it would take too long to get into the thing when I needed to answer a call. I bought a cordless phone from Skypes webpage. After installing it, I could'nt get any sound. Emailed their support service. It took 20 days for an answer. The return period for the phone ran out 2 days before the techs answered my inquiry.

I followed their instructions: still no sound. I took my pc to my computer repairperson to have him check the sound card. No problem there. He tried uninstalling and reinstalling the software. Still no sound.

Email Skype once again, tell them the phone does not work. Their response: So sorry, your grace period for returning the phone has expired.

After uninstalling and reinstalling the Skype software, my account which I have paid for a years service, has disappeared. I can't access my phone line or see who has called.

I email Skype support once again and explain whats happened. Their respinse: Sorry to lose you as a customer, is there anything we can do to get you back? please let us know.

Now I'm going thru my credit card company hoping to have the charges reversed.

So If you want to use Skype, hope and pray you never need customer service.


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## Nevada (Sep 9, 2004)

Aohtee said:


> So If you want to use Skype, hope and pray you never need customer service.


The Skype service itself normally doesn't need any support, but I can see why someone who is unfamiliar with PC sound equipment might need support with some Skype gear. If Skype is that bad at customer service then buy Skype gear from another vendor, such as USRobotics. USR has toll-free tech support.

http://www.usr.com/products/voip/p-voip-menu.asp

You can even pick-up USRobotics Skype gear locally at Walmart.


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## MoonRiver (Sep 2, 2007)

I have had Vonage for a couple of years. I think most of the problems I have had can be traced to the quality of the cable connection. Overall, I am quite happy with the phone call quality. 

I had a lot of problems about 1 1/2 years ago, but eventually I found out I needed to upgrade my cable modem. Cable company had upgraded service but neglected to tell customers what level of modem was required.


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## BeaG (Aug 21, 2008)

Nevada:

Here is my promised update. I made an initial investment of approximately $190 in equipment. One item was a Linksys EtherFast Cable/DSL Router, (used), not wireless. (I did not want wireless. Long story. Too long for this note.) The other item was an Ipevo SOLO Skype Desktop Phone, which does not require wireless. 

Then I signed up for an "unlimited calling" Skype account, and a new phone number. As you said, that is about $5 a month, if you buy it for a year at a time. This is a savings of approximately $48 a month for me on my phone bill, so my initial investment will be covered in 4 months.

The Ipevo SOLO Skype Desktop Phone works, looks, and feels almost like a regular old fashioned phone, except that it has a few added functions. Because I have the router connected to my external modem, the phone can be "on" even though my computer may be off. I just have to keep the modem and the router on.

Thank you for the careful help you gave me while I was making this decision. I would have made some mistakes without your help.

BeaG

note: The limitation that 911 cannot be called from Skype is not an issue with me. I have an "emergency only" cell phone from which I could call 911 if necessary. I am keeping that anyway, since I take it with me in the car.


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