# 10 worst states for retirees!



## Micheal

Ahhh, let me start by saying - please cast no stones eep: as this is from an article at Bankrate.com.....

Anyway the 10 worst states are - based on most the following criteria; state & local taxes, access to med care, cost of living, weather, etc

#10 Delaware; high cost of living, limited access to healthcare, crime rate among highest in nation.
#9 Minnesota; high cost of living, weather one of coldest in nation, taxes (7th highest in nation.
#8 & #7 (tied) Maryland and Vermont; high cost of living, high taxes, Maryland - high crime rate, Vermont weather (1 of the coldest in nation).
#6 Maine; weather 3rd coldest state in nation, high cost of living, high taxes.
#5 Wisconsin; weather, high tax rate, above avg cost of living, ** does have low crime rate.
#4 California; high taxes, everything costs more (one of highest for cost of living).
#3 Washington; high cost of living, high crime rate, high tax rate, one of colder states in nation.
#2 Alaska; coldest state, 2nd highest in cost of living, **lowest tax rate.
#1 Oregon; high crime rate, high cost of living, high tax burden.

Me, I was surprised NY didn't make the list...... but hey what do I know. :hysterical:


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## Reb

Well Michael, I live in MD and can attest to how BAD this State is. Not just for retirees, EVERYBODY. There are more people moving out because of OweMalley. I mean - come on - "Rain Tax"?..........:grump:


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## Wolf mom

Here's some more lists: (from Newsmax)

States where you are taxed the most: Property, Income & State sales taxes
Maryland
Wisconsin
Rhode Island
Virginia
California
New York
Massachusetts
Minnesota
New Jersey
Connecticut

Least taxes
Nevada
New Hampshire
New Mexico
Alabama
Washington
Louisiana
South Dakota
Florida
Wyoming
Alaska

Top States for Boomers to live ( again, from Newsmax)
Florida
Texas
North Carolina
Tennessee
Nevada
Arizona
New Mexico


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## arnie

taxes are a bigg cost for retired people when I lived in Illinois the state did not tax your pencion income and why should they just like the feds they taxed it when you erned it .but now in Virginia the state hits me hard every month .


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## mekasmom

I didn't realize Oregon had a high crime rate. That is interesting.


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## where I want to

Are you sure that property taxes are not included in these lists? That's a pretty big one for some people.


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## GirlBoyGirl

I saw this article and found #10 very surprising. I live in Delaware and it is very cheap to live here! In fact, it has been considered a top state to retire in for years, so I am not sure why Bankrate said it was the #10 worst state to retire in! We have hundreds of people who live in Delaware and commute to work in Philly, New Jersey, D.C., Baltimore, and even NYC! Of course those areas are all more expensive than DE in comparison but it still speaks to the fact that we are a cheap state. We have no sales tax and other taxes are relatively low. Well anyway, I was just surprised. :shocked:


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## ET1 SS

Micheal said:


> Ahhh, let me start by saying - please cast no stones eep: as this is from an article at Bankrate.com.....
> 
> Anyway the 10 worst states are - based on most the following criteria; state & local taxes, access to med care, cost of living, weather, etc
> 
> ... #6 Maine; weather 3rd coldest state in nation, high cost of living, high taxes.


Interesting.

Bangor Daily News recently ran a story looking at recent US Census data to show that retiree migration into Maine is huge.

I moved to Maine after I retired, and every year we meet more retirees who have moved here.

We enjoy the low Cost-Of-Living, and low taxes here. 

We have owned homes in four other places before moving to Maine. All were more expensive to purchase, and all four had higher property taxes than we have now. Our home is significantly larger, and has a lot more acreage, than any of our previous homes.

Income taxes? I cant say. I am on pension. I pay no income taxes in Maine. So to compare states where I would be paying income taxes, to here, where I pay none, makes it difficult to imagine that this is higher.




However I can see where bankrate may have gotten their data. Maine has a couple cities where it is very expensive to live. In the Southern corner of the state is an urban area that is very much unlike the rest of the state. Down along the NH border things are very different.


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## Pugnacious

There is obviously no science in the article. Washington has a mild climate compared to most states. It has pockets of cold but not where people actually LIVE. 

Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk 2


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## Micheal

Went back and found the sources they gleened the stats from:
Kaiser Family Foundation
US Census
FBI Crime Report
The Tax Foundation
National Oceanic & Atmospheric Adm
Council for Community & Economic Research

As to taxes, they took in account "all" state and local type taxes.
As to weather guess they did not just single out areas where people lived but used info of the state over-all. 
That's why I stated in my org. post "surprised NY didn't make the list"........

And I'm sure there can be similar "facts" found that prove just the opposite of what this article states.......
But ain't it fun to discuss. :fussin: :gossip::hysterical:ound::hysterical:


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## MichaelZ

You are certainly correct about being over-taxed in Wisconsin, speaking from experience. And to tax retired people that way on property taxes, especially the elderly, is shameful! And you probably want some good long johns, a wood stove in every room, and a lot of grandkids to supply the firewood as it stays cold in N. WI from October to the beginning of June. We enjoyed 24" of snow and closed roads on April 19th this year and got another 8" a week later.


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## ET1 SS

Micheal said:


> Went back and found the sources they gleened the stats from:
> Kaiser Family Foundation
> US Census
> FBI Crime Report
> The Tax Foundation
> National Oceanic & Atmospheric Adm
> Council for Community & Economic Research
> 
> As to taxes, they took in account "all" state and local type taxes.


Total state revenue is often used for these formulas [like 'tax burden']. While the idea sounds like a good indicator, we must keep in mind that corporations and businesses fit in there too. It is not just individuals.

As a retiree, I do not care how much corporations pay in taxes.

I care about how much I must pay.

When my real-life tax burden is low. I find it amusing to see it spoken of as if it were high.

I understand how data was manipulated into implying that it is high. I get it. But that rarely reflects reality.







> ... And I'm sure there can be similar "facts" found that prove just the opposite of what this article states....... But ain't it fun to discuss. :fussin: :gossip::hysterical:ound::hysterical:


Oh, yes.

I think that there are many unemployed journalists writing blogs. Going after the '10' best blah, the '10' worst blah, is low hanging fruit for them. Each uses different criteria, and we see contradicting articles every month.


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## Raymond James

I think you have to take these list with a boulder of salt. 

Low taxes sounds good but- what kind of schools do they have ? While "most " retirees do not have school age children some do. I know men who have had children at age 58. So living in a low cost state with terrible schools and paying 10K a year to send them to a decent school is saving you how? 


Low taxes in Missouri means no dedicated 911 funding so maybe you get a trained well equipped operator when you call maybe not. Ambulance service is very spotty lots of dedicated volunteers and pancake breakfast to pay for the ambulance - works in many communities not so much in others. Same for Fire. Police if you need them are at least 30 minutes away and it is not uncommon to wait for over an hour. 

A balance between services and taxes would be what I would look at. 

I might start by looking at one of these list but would not stop there when looking to retire.


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## Pugnacious

Well, since it would be impossible for someone to live in some of those areas, it doesn't make sense to include them. I guess this is why "lists" are a waste of time. 

Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk 2


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## backwoods

People move to our area in Tn from other (usually northern) places and in the beginning they always "marvel" at the low cost of property, TAXES, no state income tax, etc. until a few months later & they are griping constantly about how the roads are full of pot holes you could hide a body in, and why aren't there streetlights, and there's no FREE garbage pickup service, just an "all volunteer" fire dept., how paying sales tax on food is just outrageous, they moved onto a gravel road, then complain constantly about why it hasn't been paved, etc, etc, etc. If you want all those "services," somebody is going to PAY for them, and that somebody will be you. Apparently, an often overlooked consideration when deciding where to retire to, IF you feel they are REQUIRED services.


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## MichaelZ

backwoods said:


> People move to our area in Tn from other (usually northern) places and in the beginning they always "marvel" at the low cost of property, TAXES, no state income tax, etc. until a few months later & they are griping constantly about how the roads are full of pot holes you could hide a body in, and why aren't there streetlights, and there's no FREE garbage pickup service, just an "all volunteer" fire dept., how paying sales tax on food is just outrageous, they moved onto a gravel road, then complain constantly about why it hasn't been paved, etc, etc, etc. If you want all those "services," somebody is going to PAY for them, and that somebody will be you. Apparently, an often overlooked consideration when deciding where to retire to, IF you feel they are REQUIRED services.


You make a good point. But people that are no longer able to earn much of an extra income should not be taxed out of their home. In WI, you need to have an income of 20K/year or less and then you can get a "loan" on your taxes that will be paid by your heirs when you die. A death tax of sorts. But if you make 21K, you don't qualify. Maybe TN does not have the best setup but neither does WI. A pinch of salt on your french fries is nice - the whole bottle or none at all makes them unpalatable.


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## bruce2288

I think backwoods point was there are no free lunches. Everything government supplies has to be paid for only the feds get to create money. So there are choices, if you want superb government services you have to be willing to pay for them through taxes. Some people are quite happy with less service and less tax.


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## romysbaskets

Pugnacious said:


> There is obviously no science in the article. Washington has a mild climate compared to most states. It has pockets of cold but not where people actually LIVE.
> 
> Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk 2


Yes you are right. The reason many retired people live here is for the mild climate. I have not retired so no first hand knowledge of the financial part. I had lettuces out in my upraised bed winter over, lots of things do. It is expensive to live here though, they tax everything they can!


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## backwoods

bruce2288 said:


> I think backwoods point was there are no free lunches. Everything government supplies has to be paid for only the feds get to create money. So there are choices, if you want superb government services you have to be willing to pay for them through taxes. Some people are quite happy with less service and less tax.


EXACTLY my point.


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## susieneddy

too bad the list didn't include worst and best places to retire overseas


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## Maura

I think you have to balance taxes with service. Schools, and just because you don't have kids in school doesn't mean it doesn't affect you. Poor quality schools = more prisons, more welfare recipients, and lower wages. Then there's the libraries, roads, police, fire, meals on wheels, senior center, etc. Crime rate can vary too. Detroit, Flint, Grand Rapids, and Pontiac have high violent crime rates. But, if you live away from the metro areas the violence drops way down.


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## Molly Mckee

There are no state income taxes in Washington, and while other taxes are high I don't think they make up for that. The weather here, even in the "colder" part of the state is much milder than other northern states. While some of the larger cities may have a higher crime rate, most more rural areas of the don't. I doubt that that list is anywhere near accurate.


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## Filson

Spent most of my life in western WA and I never felt like crime was very much of an issue.

Important thing for retirees to consider when debating where to move is the state income tax rates (or lack of) in different states and how much will change your income. Cost of living may be cheaper in certain areas, but so may your income due to taxes. Make sure to check out where things balance out.


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## ET1 SS

Filson said:


> Spent most of my life in western WA and I never felt like crime was very much of an issue.
> 
> Important thing for retirees to consider when debating where to move is the state income tax rates (or lack of) in different states and how much will change your income. Cost of living may be cheaper in certain areas, but so may your income due to taxes. Make sure to check out where things balance out.


I agree.

Retiring anywhere that you had to pay income taxes, might not be smart.

I would not want to settle in a place that did that. Part of why I settled here.


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## Nevada

bruce2288 said:


> I think backwoods point was there are no free lunches.


Of course that's correct, since one way or another someone has to pay the bills. But Nevada has an interesting way around that. They let visitors pay a lot of the bills.

By far, the largest industry in the state is tourism, which is taxed heavily. In addition to sales tax on just about everything, visitors pay a hefty (13%) occupancy tax for hotel rooms. Casinos also pay a high tax rate on gambling profits, which comes largely from visitors.

Residents still pay sales tax and modest property taxes, but we pay no state income tax. We can take a free ride on that because tourists pay the bills.


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## ET1 SS

Nevada said:


> Of course that's correct, since one way or another someone has to pay the bills. But Nevada has an interesting way around that. They let visitors pay a lot of the bills.
> 
> By far, the largest industry in the state is tourism, which ...


Top Ten Industries:

http://www.marketwatch.com/tools/industry/

U.S. Auto Manufacturers

U.S. Automobiles & Parts

U.S. Defense Index

U.S. Full Line Insurance

U.S. Consumer Electronics

U.S. Specialty Finance

U.S. Footwear Index

U.S. Biotechnology Index

U.S. Aerospace & Defense


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## tarbe

susieneddy said:


> too bad the list didn't include worst and best places to retire overseas


I guess that would have to be another article, because this one was about "states"....as in United States?


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## wwubben

This guy considered cold a negative.I consider heat a negative.I know a lot of retired folks who consider being near grandkids the only issue.


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## Bellyman

One size just does not fit all. 

Where does your retirement income come from? As a for instance, TN is not an income tax state. But... if your income is coming from interest and dividends, you won't like TN because of something called the Hall Tax. 

If a state doesn't have an income tax but has high sales and property taxes, you may pay more in bits and pieces as you pay your property taxes season by season and spend your dollars at the grocery stores and gas pumps week by week than you'd pay in a state that may have an income tax but lower property and sales taxes. (And some states that do have an income tax may not tax your retirement income.) 

I find these articles amusing. But a person has to plug in their own living circumstances and needs before getting much of an idea of how the tax structure in a given state or local area will affect their pocket book.


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## DEKE01

bruce2288 said:


> I think backwoods point was there are no free lunches. Everything government supplies has to be paid for only the feds get to create money. So there are choices, if you want superb government services you have to be willing to pay for them through taxes. Some people are quite happy with less service and less tax.


Can you name a place with "superb government services"?

I object to the notion that just because a state has high taxes the services and roads are good. Try Michigan, entering the high tax state the roads instantly go to ruin. Detroit, Chicago, NYC, Baltimore are all high tax cities. Any superb government services there?


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## ET1 SS

DEKE01 said:


> Can you name a place with "superb government services"?
> 
> I object to the notion that just because a state has high taxes the services and roads are good. Try Michigan, entering the high tax state the roads instantly go to ruin. Detroit, Chicago, NYC, Baltimore are all high tax cities. Any superb government services there?


Add Washington, Connecticut and Mass.


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## Bellyman

DEKE01 said:


> Can you name a place with "superb government services"?
> 
> I object to the notion that just because a state has high taxes the services and roads are good. Try Michigan, entering the high tax state the roads instantly go to ruin. Detroit, Chicago, NYC, Baltimore are all high tax cities. Any superb government services there?


It's a few years back, but I do remember having to make a trip to Canada to have my rv repaired. The bit of mileage that had me going through Michigan was awful. I think the speed limit was 55mph most of where I was and I couldn't do more than about 45mph without feeling like I was gonna tear my rig apart. 

I suppose a lot of states have trouble keeping their roads in good repair. Michigan definitely is one of them.


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## ET1 SS

This sub-forum is 'Homesteading and Retirement', and this thread is about states for retirees. So I make an assumption here that we are all retired.

As retirees, many of us live on smaller incomes than we had while we were working. Lower income usually puts you into a lower income tax-bracket. Having moved to Maine, I find that most fellow retirees I know have incomes below the average household income for this area. So we are all below the minimum for paying income tax.

Generally on pension = no income taxes. Now obviously there are exceptions. If your retired income is above the average household income level, then in this region you would be fairly wealthy and up into one of the tax brackets, paying income taxes.

Paying income tax sucks. I am relatively glad that I do not pay income taxes. 

The OP made claim that retirees pay high taxes. Clearly this is not talking about income taxes. The biggest tax I pay is my property tax. So these 'high' taxes, must be property taxes. Fair enough. 

We have 150 acres of dense forest with 1/4 mile of river frontage. I have built our homestead in the midst of the forest. 

Our land is taxed at $1.05/acre. 150 acres come out to around $157/year.

Our new home is 2400 sq ft, 3 bdrm, and is taxed around $570/year.

Are these the extremely high taxes that the OP would suggest avoiding Maine because of?

I am not from Maine. I grew up in California. I have owned four homes previously to building this one. Each of those previous homes cost more in taxes than this one costs. Even in the 1980s I was paying more for our home in California, than what I pay now.

I do not consider this to be a 'high' tax state, considering what our taxes actually are.

The 'tax burden' here is very high. Corporations get hammered here.


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## Ramblin Wreck

The devil is in the details when analyzing these studies and how the parameters chosen impact each individual/family. While Alaska is shown as the 2nd most expensive state, I have family who find it financially beneficial to live there in retirement. They don't pay state income tax, but instead receive a *payment* from the state each year. That can go a long way towards paying the higher costs of groceries and other essentials you have to purchase there. One family member is a retired teacher, and she receives an additional 10% bump on her pension if she continues to live in the state. That's a biggie for sure.


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## Bountiful Ranch

wwubben said:


> This guy considered cold a negative.I consider heat a negative.I know a lot of retired folks who consider being near grandkids the only issue.


I live in Eastern OK and have a wonderful homestead with hills and flat areas (300 acres). One might think I am nuts to want to leave but I hate heat and that is the only reason. When I lived up North or even in the Mountains I was a happy camper on a couple acres. I will stay here because this is one of the lowest places we have lived with property taxes and like the poster above mentioned my grands are about 3 hours from me in OKCity (jobs). I am a happy camper from October to June and then when that heat comes I feel sick every day. Like right now I have to go and water gardens sometimes twice a day. I miss real snow too. They go nuts here with a shaking of snow and close down all the highways.


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## I_don't_know

Florida should be at the top of the list. 
[FONT=&quot][/FONT]1. It is a right to work state&#8230;if you work you have no rights!!
[FONT=&quot][/FONT]2. If you are not a tourist&#8230; you are not.
[FONT=&quot][/FONT]3. The state is surrounded by beaches&#8230;most have no public access, public beaches have no parking 

4. Need I say more?


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## DEKE01

I_don't_know said:


> Florida should be at the top of the list.
> [FONT=&quot][/FONT]1. It is a right to work stateâ¦if you work you have no rights!!
> [FONT=&quot][/FONT]2. If you are not a touristâ¦ you are not.
> [FONT=&quot][/FONT]3. The state is surrounded by beachesâ¦most have no public access, public beaches have no parking
> 
> 4. Need I say more?



YOu need to say lots more because you are oh so wrong on every count.


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## lonelytree

Keep thinking that AK is not a good option.


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## Raeven

Oregon, either. It sucks here.


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## jwal10

Micheal said:


> Ahhh, let me start by saying - please cast no stones eep: as this is from an article at Bankrate.com.....
> 
> Anyway the 10 worst states are - based on most the following criteria; state & local taxes, access to med care, cost of living, weather, etc
> 
> #10 Delaware; high cost of living, limited access to healthcare, crime rate among highest in nation.
> #9 Minnesota; high cost of living, weather one of coldest in nation, taxes (7th highest in nation.
> #8 & #7 (tied) Maryland and Vermont; high cost of living, high taxes, Maryland - high crime rate, Vermont weather (1 of the coldest in nation).
> #6 Maine; weather 3rd coldest state in nation, high cost of living, high taxes.
> #5 Wisconsin; weather, high tax rate, above avg cost of living, ** does have low crime rate.
> #4 California; high taxes, everything costs more (one of highest for cost of living).
> #3 Washington; high cost of living, high crime rate, high tax rate, one of colder states in nation.
> #2 Alaska; coldest state, 2nd highest in cost of living, **lowest tax rate.
> #1 Oregon; high crime rate, high cost of living, high tax burden.
> 
> Me, I was surprised NY didn't make the list...... but hey what do I know. :hysterical:


 
Yah, Oregon is #1. Looks like our great former Governor Tom McCall's legacy lives on. He started his campain in the 70's to keep Californians from coming here. Crime? it is everywhere in this old world. I have lived here all my 57 years and have yet to lock my doors, except when I am gone from a property for a long time. I do not lock my cars. Taxes, not cheap, where are they, really? Cost of living is all expenses added up. It is lower here than many places this far north because of weather, we don't have extreme weather where I live because of the coastal influence. No sales tax. If you have a lot, of course they will tax you, it is Goobermutts' way. I am dirt poor and live on the cheap. Not much for Goobermutt to latch on to....James


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## calliesue

Reb said:


> Well Michael, I live in MD and can attest to how BAD this State is. Not just for retirees, EVERYBODY. There are more people moving out because of OweMalley. I mean - come on - "Rain Tax"?..........:grump:


Wow. I had to look that up. I had never heard of a rain tax. What a crock!


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