# Help - treeless saddle for Percheron?



## Alice In TX/MO (May 10, 2002)

I have a friend who has a team of Percherons that we want to ride. They are already rideable while in harness, and she wants to use treeless saddles. 

I know quarter horses and western saddles.

Help. I don't know what to look for, how to measure, where to buy, etc., etc., etc. Any advice is appreciated.


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## Minelson (Oct 16, 2007)

I am a HUGE fan of Bob Marshall treeless saddles. Will never use anything else again. I buy mine on Ebay. They hold their value so they are easy to re-sell if needed. I'm on my 3rd and I bought one for hubby last fall. I would think that with a draft horse you would just need an extra long cinch. The measurement of the seat is a bit different than the usual way to measure. 
Let me get some links...


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## Minelson (Oct 16, 2007)

Sports Saddle, Inc. :: Bob Marshall Treeless Saddles
Savvy Sport Saddle: Bob Marshall Saddles
Determine Your Seat Size

I think I would contact one of the companies that sells them and ask about using on a draft horse. The pad is very important if you ride a lot or weigh a lot. (that is my opinion) I like the Skito Pads. Very easy to care for too. 
I also prefer a hornless Bob Marshall. I am a western rider but I don't need a horn..don't rope. I did have a problem with the Bob Marshall horn always getting stuck under my shirt or hoodie and I found that irritating! So now I have a Trail Rider, square skirt, and no horn. Just what I wanted!  but hard to find.


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## jennigrey (Jan 27, 2005)

Percherons can come in a variety of shapes and sizes. A Bob Marshall will *probably* fit them, but not definitely. While the Bob Marshall doesn't have a tree, it does have a rigid arch for a pommel. I have seen Percherons whose shark-fin withers would have maxed out the interior height of the pommel arch. I have also seen Percherons with no withers and who were so broad and flat in the shoulder area that either edge of a Bob Marshall's pommel would have poked the horse.

Having said that, my Percherons fit great into their Bob Marshall and I would recommend one whole-heartedly if it fits! Mine are fairly narrow for the breed - they wear full quarter horse bars. "Draft sized" saddles are too big for mine.

Make sure that you use a breastcollar with any treeless saddle. Get a neoprene draft sized cinch. I recommend this one: Stay-Put Neoprene Cinch - Draft Horse Sized


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## Alice In TX/MO (May 10, 2002)

The Bob Marshall website doesn't show breastcollars.... that I can find this early in the morning.


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## bergere (May 11, 2002)

Another good Treeless saddle, if they have lots of wither and spine, is Startrekk saddles.
They have the widest Gullet of all the Treeless saddles out there. And will keep even heavy people off their back.
They have many different gullet flare plates, so they will fit most horses.

Treeless Western Saddles, Treeless Endurance Saddles, Treeless Dressage Saddles by Startrekk

Here is a good web site on what are the better and more safe Treeless saddles.
Treeless - The Alternative Horse

Right now I am riding in a Sensation Hybrid, however, I would not recommend it for horse's with high withers and spine.
I original bought this for my no withered, very wide Icelandic.
I having been using it on my other Icelandic, who has a high wither and spine for the breed but I am having to use a special pad with a full 1 inch of inserts to keep the saddle off her spine.
There are no hard points in the Sensation Hybrid, one of the reason they fit the low/No wither wide horses so well. And this saddle is stable on the horse.

I would recommend doing Demo's to find which saddle will fit both you/her and the horses best.


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## bergere (May 11, 2002)

Here is the Nickers Sensation Treeless saddle site. They also sell nice Breast collars in any size.
Nickers Saddlery


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## Minelson (Oct 16, 2007)

Alice In TX/MO said:


> The Bob Marshall website doesn't show breastcollars.... that I can find this early in the morning.


Any western breast collar will work. I use this
SMx Neoprene Breast Collar Professional's Choice (Equine - Supplies Tack - Western Horse Tack - Bre
I would get measurements though before buying since yours is a draft horse. I don't know if it would be big enough!


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## farmgirl6 (May 20, 2011)

I am still a fan of orthoflex, I have one that has fit every horse I have every owned, included a half Percheron.


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## JPiantedosi (Apr 23, 2012)

For the same money as a treeless saddle I think I would look into draft horse saddles. Our neighbor just bought a spotted draft and she ended up buying a draft saddle and it fit her horse better than their old treeless and better than anything we had at our place. 

I have heard alot of horror stories about treeless saddles and back sore horses.

If your neighbor intends to do much riding of these percherons it might be in her best interest to get a saddle cut to fit her horse and the way it moves....

Jim


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## jennigrey (Jan 27, 2005)

Don't buy the breastcollar until you get the saddle and determine whether or not it fits. Then measure the horse and find a breastcollar. Saddle horse breastcollars are too small for mine, draft horse breastcollars are too big. I had to order one custom-made.


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## bergere (May 11, 2002)

JPiantedosi said:


> For the same money as a treeless saddle I think I would look into draft horse saddles. Our neighbor just bought a spotted draft and she ended up buying a draft saddle and it fit her horse better than their old treeless and better than anything we had at our place.
> 
> I have heard alot of horror stories about treeless saddles and back sore horses.
> 
> ...


Not all Treeless saddles are the same. This is why it is best to go with the well known brands.
These high end brands, do have Gullets that help keep the rider off the horse's spine.
They are not bareback pads.

When testing Saddles for Dyfra a few years ago.. both Treed and Treeless, 35+ saddles... I used a Port Lewis impression Pad. 
This helped to tell me the spread of the saddles and what the pressures where like during the try out.
The three Best, with the most even spread across Dyfra's back.. at the time were the Startrekk comfort, Sensation Hybrid and Treefree Treeless..
All the treed saddles, even ones offered up by Saddle fittings Specialists, had the worst impressions. Add to that Dyfra hated those saddle.

She is a horse that needs a Hoop tree saddle and back then, the one and only maker was in England. And they had to fly over to fit your horse. Wasn't going to happen.

She has been very happy with her Sensation Hybrid.

I know a lot of progressive Horse people, that have ridden their horse's for years in treeless saddle. Making sure to keep an eye on them, having body work people make sure no damage is being done. The horse's are in excellent condition and love their treeless saddles.

Could a Treeless saddle cause damage to a horse, depends on the treeless, the build of the horse and wither or not the rider is a good balanced rider. 

I have seen far more Treed saddles, even professionally fitted ones, do major damage to many horses.

I am not pro Treeless or Treed, folks need to use what ever works and fits best for their horse and then, them. 
No easy thing with some of the breeds and builds.


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## Maddiequus (Nov 4, 2003)

I got an Aussie saddle for my Percheron; he too takes full QH bars. He was a little harder to fit than other horses I've had/ridden. Definitely make sure you measure for your horse and don't just buy "Draft".
It may just be this saddle's billet straps but the girth is actually shorter than my English girths for my TBs.


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