# Where do they NOT care about building codes?



## Shrarvrs88

My family is looking to move, and we are obviously going to build a safe place to live, but want it to be as cheap and money-efficient as possible. Not having to worry about permits and such would really help with that. 

So I was wondering if there is a place (Alaska, maybe?) where you don't have to have all the permits and such to build?


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## MushCreek

May rural areas in the southeast are still that way, but you better hurry, and do your homework to be sure of the local rules. Also, be advised that most states have adopted standard building codes such as IRC 2009. Even if your local jurisdiction doesn't care, you could still be in violation at the state level. Whether anyone every finds out is the risk you have to take. It's like taking the emission equipment off of your car because your state doesn't inspect for it. You're still in violation of federal law.

Another thing to check on is whether you can get insurance on an un-inspected house.

Personally, I wish they would leave people alone who have rural property and want to build their own place on it, at their own risk. Unfortunately, the government knows what's best for everyone.


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## Shrarvrs88

Yeah, I think if it's your property, it's your property. End of story. But whatever. Only thing now is to do what we can, as fast as we can, before regulations change again...

As a side note, how many new regulations, ect, DON'T make .gov any money?


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## lonelytree

Shrarvrs88 said:


> My family is looking to move, and we are obviously going to build a safe place to live, but want it to be as cheap and money-efficient as possible. Not having to worry about permits and such would really help with that.
> 
> So I was wondering if there is a place (Alaska, maybe?) where you don't have to have all the permits and such to build?


I had to purchase 1 permit for my cabin. $25 land use fee and only because it was in the Mat-Su Borough. If you are even thinking about heading to Alaska. You need to really think it out right now. Our economy usually lags the lower 48 be a year or 2 and it is starting to get ugly. I know of several construction outfits that went under last fall and 7 more this spring. I ice fish with iron workers that have been without since fall and only have one project on the books for this summer. 

Fuel is expensive, food is expensive, materials are not cheap. This is from another forum, but it really hits home.

Here they come

I went to walmart in wasilla yesterday and their was a young guy standing at the exit holding signs like the homeless do in Seattle. I rolled down my window and asked what was up the guy said he just moved here w/ his wife and kids and they didn't have enough gas to make it to his in-laws in anchorage. I slipped him a meager offering and went on my way, from seward meridian to lucille st I counted 4 friggn u-hauls, all w/ mom and pop eyeballing where they're gonna pull over so mom can poop because she hasn't since they left Topeka kansas. It aint pretty folks....we may need to pool our money and run some ads in newspapers and the internet warning people that moving here isn't the answer. I've now seen 4 homeless people in Wasilla this spring holding signs asking for a handout, thats 4 more than I have ever seen before. Don't say I didn't warn you....


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## shawnlee

There are lots of places left with no building codes.....mostly rural places.

Off the top of my head is Mo. , Tenn, Ks.....there are plenty more...you just have to go rural farmland and stay out of the cities/towns.

Most cities/towns will have them anywhere you look because your structure could pose a threat to the others in town.


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## mtnmenagerie

NE Alabama  and it's beautiful here!


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## sweet potato

I live in south central KY and most areas around here have no building codes. As long as you do not live within the city limits you can build whatever you like. In fact, since I am not connected to the electric grid I had no inspections at all (using a composting toilet-no septic). While building the house I lived in one of those prebuilt barns that are delivered on a trailer.


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## Cyngbaeld

Lot of places in TX only require septic permit.


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## Pelenaka

I think the question should be where one can live & work that doesn't have building codes.
We found a few counties in the southern tier of New York that are less regulated but employment is hard to come by. 

~~ pelenaka ~~


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## Darren

WV is another state without building codes in rural areas. You will still have to get a permit for a septic system or well if you hire someone to do the work. Every county will have a sanitarian. Rural counties don't hire building code inspectors.

Like the poster from Alaska mentioned, jobs can be scarce. WV is also a state that lags the nation as far as job recovery and job loss.


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## texican

Cyngbaeld said:


> Lot of places in TX only require septic permit.


And, as long as you have over ten acres, it's pretty easy to just put in a regular old septic. No building permits or codes out here in the country. Build it yourself, and you can go tar paper shanty to castle, without pesky interference.


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## jander3

I've built my cabin without having to deal with codes. I like that. In general, I'm certain that things would stand up to code, just don't want the hassle. However, I am 3 miles back in the woods accessible only by ATV, so no one really knows we are there.


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## ErinP

Most of rural Kansas requires nothing more than septic approval. You can install it yourself, but it has to pass inspection. Other than that, though, no codes, permitting, etc. 
Nebraska is similar, but if I'm not mistaken, there is an electrical code that has to be passed rather than septic. 
Both of the Dakotas are quite liberal with their building rules (as in, most places dont' have them  ) and I'm sure the list goes on.


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## ladybug

Missouri, Tennessee, and Kentucky are a few I can think of off the top of my head- but it is only in rural areas that there aren't building codes...In some counties in Missouri(maybe all?)outhouses are permitted because they don't endanger groundwater. We used to have some land in MO but never got to do anything with it due to a divorce. I don't think there is much work there though.


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## countryboy84

Here in South Cental KY where I live the only code is a septic approval but you can install yourself and if there is no eletrical service on the property you will have to have the firmarshell come out once you are done building. Which he only looks at stuff like you have exits and a couple of working smoke detectors. Those are state laws, other then that good to go. There are some jobs in the area as long as you are willing to drive about 30 one way.


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## rickfrosty

Shrarvrs88 said:


> My family is looking to move, and we are obviously going to build a safe place to live, but want it to be as cheap and money-efficient as possible. Not having to worry about permits and such would really help with that.
> 
> So I was wondering if there is a place (Alaska, maybe?) where you don't have to have all the permits and such to build?


In unorganised townships in Maine you have to buy a permit to build, but it isn't much & they aren't fussy about what you build. 
They're not all over the place but the trailer-build-around isn't uncommon. That must be about the cheapest way to build. Take one not new cheap mobile home, set it up on cement pads or blocks (a gravel pad is nice if you can), then encase with a house - you already have the heat, water, wiring & plumbing.
You can make a strong roof & have much better insulation.
You can also have just an outhouse & a greywater bed, but this will have to be designed by a 'soil scientist' for about $200 - that is the 1st step in getting your building permit. You will have to tell this person that you will have hand-carried (or hand pumped) water only.
Just don't expect to be able to sell it easily later.


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## kvr28

didn't maine adopt the national building code last year?


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## RonM

Check WV.


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## Johnny Dolittle

Forget Pennsylvania... It is a beautiful state but began enforcing universal code in 2004. The latest amendment was to require a sprinkling system but we fought them off so far. We have a fire alarm requirement but they wanted this charged system that would work even with the loss of electricity. It also required periodical inspections. If I was younger i would leave this state and go to Missouri !!!!


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## ChristopherReed

TN adopted national building code.


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## ErinP

So did Kansas. But single family dwellings are exempted. (I have no idea why. lol)
But I would bet we're not the only state that does such a thing.

Individual communities, on the other hand, often have stricter codes and regs than the state does.


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## trimpy

Darren said:


> WV is another state without building codes in rural areas. You will still have to get a permit for a septic system or well if you hire someone to do the work. Every county will have a sanitarian. Rural counties don't hire building code inspectors.
> 
> Like the poster from Alaska mentioned, jobs can be scarce. WV is also a state that lags the nation as far as job recovery and job loss.


I was pleasantly surprised to find this out then I moved to WV from MI. My wife and I both lost our jobs in MI and had to move here. Plenty of tech jobs and very cheap cost of living... north central WV anyways.


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## barnyardgal

no codes in Missouri in the country except septic tanks and i think if you have over 3 acres or so you can get by with a lagoon,not sure...

Good luck!!


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## RebelDigger

Here in Hatchie anything goes. It is rural Tippah County. Septic, no septic (some folks simply run a pipe out to the back of the property and let her rip). The farmhouse we are restoring has the pipe run out to the back of the ridge and no septic but, I refuse to live that way and we will be installing a septic tank--nothing more rank than being in the yard and smelling sewage, YUCK! Did that at the Victorian we lived at before when our sewage pipe broke. Fortunately, the house is completely off grid while we work on it and we will be doing new wiring, new plumbing, new septic, etc. before we move into it. I think the trailer we are living in next to the house has a septic tank, at least I have found no evidence in the woods that it doesn't so I hope.

Of course, the drawback to this is that there are some really big trash heap places around. It is kind of funny going down the road and passing a high dollar new house with a landscaped yard then the next homestead is a ******* double wide (two single wides side by side) with a garbage dump worth of carp all over the property around it. This is what is taking up my time since we got here in october. I have been cleaning up the property of 40 years worth of accumulated trash since I refuse to live this way. It is a nice break to get to work on the house once in a while.

All in all, around here folks still operate with the mentality that you have the right to do what you want to on your own property without interference from government types.


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## silverbackMP

RebelDigger said:


> Here in Hatchie anything goes. It is rural Tippah County. Septic, no septic (some folks simply run a pipe out to the back of the property and let her rip). The farmhouse we are restoring has the pipe run out to the back of the ridge and no septic but, I refuse to live that way and we will be installing a septic tank--nothing more rank than being in the yard and smelling sewage, .


If done right, you won't smell sewage. Run it off into a enough vegetation and you won't smell anything.


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## Mutti

Well, where I live in MO there aren't any inspectors, codes,restrictions. Know people with outhouses. We have a lagoon sewer system....no,it doesn't smell. Our lines were blocked and one guy said, oh, you can't have a lagoon anymore. Funny but that wasn't true. Think he was out to spend our money. Over by the bigger cities they are all about codes but funny, tornados keep blowing thru and those "inspected" houses are the first to go. This old place was built with oak timbers from the farm; place farmed for over 120 years and I've never seen an inspector in the 22 years I've lived here...when we remodeled we did our electric to code on our own; same with exits,etc. but no fees or somebody snooping around . DEE


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## EstrogenHostage

Lots of places don't care about building codes. I could use one stud for each side of my house if I wanted, but they would still get me for the permit. 6k in my county.


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## Cyngbaeld

What state are you in EstH? 6k is a huge amount for a building permit.


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## EstrogenHostage

NE Kansas. 


You ought to see what it costs all told. I am remodeling, so my permit is $1500. You need a road entrance permit ($150), a septic permit ($500??) a water meter ($5000 minimum), then you get to pay property taxes on it forever. 

In town it's even worse. I looked at a lot in town, it's $50k before you even break ground.


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## sticky_burr

actually all do or shortly will in the coming years . but there are plenty of areas with no code enforcement officers


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## rickfrosty

kvr28 said:


> didn't maine adopt the national building code last year?


I'll have to check on that, but few code enforcement officers are qualified to inspect for structure anyway. I think they have pretty much always had the nat. bldg. code sort of on the books, but no-one paid much attention to it. In these unorganised townships (much of ME) they don't care what you build as long as you aren't breaking some other code, such as set-backs, or subdivision. The septic design is only like $300 & you can put the septic in yourself, but it has to be inspected. You can have soil scientist 'design' a greywater bed & privy only if you want, but not if you plan on having electrically pumped water. There are no public water systems outside of the organised villages.
If you follow the laws on your septic system (which is 1st step), it's not hard to get a building permit & doesn't cost hardly anything.


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## tiogacounty

Johnny Dolittle said:


> Forget Pennsylvania... It is a beautiful state but began enforcing universal code in 2004. The latest amendment was to require a sprinkling system but we fought them off so far. We have a fire alarm requirement but they wanted this charged system that would work even with the loss of electricity. It also required periodical inspections. If I was younger i would leave this state and go to Missouri !!!!


Actually, we haven't killed sprinklers yet. The house voted them down by a wide margin. AFAIK, the senate didn't vote yet, and the vote will be a lot closer. The sprinkler issue is a great example of corruption in action. Rewrite the rules to allow a crime to take place, then throw tons of money at it, until you get you way. Does it matter if they statistically improve the safety of a home? Apparently not. Does it matter that the the construction industry is nearly extinct and cannot afford to add tens of thousands per structure in bogus costs? Apparently not. What matters is special interests and their insatiable greed. 

As for the requirement that new homes have interconnected 120 volt smoke detectors with battery back-up. It's been in place for years. The units are less than $10 each, and only a true idiot would build or remodel a home without them, regardless of code requirements.


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## tiogacounty

rickfrosty said:


> I'll have to check on that, but few code enforcement officers are qualified to inspect for structure anyway.


I Certainly hope you are limiting this observation to the wilds of Maine? 

Since the implementation of the IRC, I have yet to do business with an inspector that ISN'T well trained in structural analysis and review. It is common to get prints kicked back in plan review with a request to provide engineering support for any type of non-standard detail. It is common to have an inspector cross check prints in the field against the structure. If a state is aggressively enforcing a comprehensive code, the inspector in the field has personal liability just like an engineer or architect. If they allow a defect to get passed, and it becomes an issue later, they own the problem. Obviously, if they are a govt. employee that are shielded somewhat, but not entirely.

A recent case in my area involved a garbage grade builder and a defective fireplace. It was a wood burning factory built unit, and appeared to be installed properly. The homeowner didn't get results from the builder or local township inspector. He called the state, which inspected and found a very minor, and unrelated inspection failure with the chimney location. The inspector was suspended for two weeks w/o pay. 

I could do without a lot of the bureaucrat interference of the whole IRC game in my business, but if it's properly managed, it can result in a far better product that many builders try to get away with.


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## Cyngbaeld

tiogacounty said:


> Actually, we haven't killed sprinklers yet. The house voted them down by a wide margin. AFAIK, the senate didn't vote yet, and the vote will be a lot closer. The sprinkler issue is a great example of corruption in action. Rewrite the rules to allow a crime to take place, then throw tons of money at it, until you get you way. Does it matter if they statistically improve the safety of a home? Apparently not. Does it matter that the the construction industry is nearly extinct and cannot afford to add tens of thousands per structure in bogus costs? Apparently not. What matters is special interests and their insatiable greed.
> 
> As for the requirement that new homes have interconnected 120 volt smoke detectors with battery back-up. It's been in place for years. The units are less than $10 each, and only a true idiot would build or remodel a home without them, regardless of code requirements.


It cost me over $1000 to put in hardwired smoke detectors several yrs ago in CO. Because I added on to the house I was forced to upgrade the electrical for the entire house and add hardwired detectors even though I had several battery operated ones. The spots the inspectors insisted on me putting them made them go off frequently. One in the kitchen outside a bedroom door went off every time I used the oven (continuous clean) and the other in the hall outside the other bedrooms, right where the swamp cooler blew on it. That one went off every time the swamp cooler was turned on. I had to disable both.


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## sticky_burr

i dont get this .. you can buy battery interconnect like select a number and it transmit to the others. ik most people dot bother to change the batteries .. but why must everyone suffer over a minor issue? 

inspection should be self suporting. thru fines. a 15-30k fine for doing sub standard work with no permit will pay for alot of 25$ permits. i even tried to find a copy of the code so i can learn what needs to be done .. almost inpossible. they just say 4565.45456. is superceeded with this .. IF a community wants you to follow rules that most of them dont even know they should provide the rules. ... for instance if you dont want people to park here you put up a sign so it is known. if you require a minimum size window for egress .. then it should be known. i have no problem with most common sense regs but really it seems to be favoring having to pay 10s of thousands to people that in turn do not get the permits and do not build to the standard. 
then you try to sell or insure and this should be a problem. and perhaps is . IF you s choose to build sub standard and its yours but also should be YOUR liability and you should not pass it on. if i am to buy a home pre-made or renovated i will want to see permits instead they have a know nothing home inspector, not to offend any of the good inspectors, that cant see behind sheetrock. or has no clue or doesnt care because he is not liable. 
so basically we are left with this on one hand the building code is MEANT to protect you the owner or buyer against shoddy work but it has become a nuisance. 
do you plan to insure the home you are going to build with no permits? is there going to be a mortgage? how are they to know if the home is of value and 'safe'?


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## CaliannG

Out here in the wilds of Brazos County, Texas, we have septic permits and septic inspections, but that is it if you live on 10 acres or more.

Building codes and permits are to protect other folks, not you. :shrug: In other words, if you are living in an area where houses are close together, YOU shouldn't have to suffer and have YOUR house burned down because your neighbor was a cheap idiot and installed the wiring in his house himself, and it caught fire, set off the propane tank he keeps in his kitchen for the stove, which blevied and landed directly in your living room....

However, out in the country, where the neighbor's are 10 acres + away, if your neighbor makes a poor building choice, it is far less likely to effect you.

We have the sewage and septic inspections, though, because that stuff gets in the groundwater and effects everyone around.

I think, though, that because of the drought, the county commissioners are talking about doing something to encourage gray water usage and sprinkler-type septic systems.


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## sticky_burr

well there are common sense laws just as GFCI in kitchen and bath that electrical has to be a certian distance from water and the like .. that your fire place r stove cant be too close to combustables . if a contractor was not made to follow these whaats to have them from trying to make a extra buck and having your house burn down because some one didnt build to minimum standards


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## Cyngbaeld

All my gray water goes to a pond that the ducks enjoy fertilizing, then it is pumped onto the pasture so it doesn't get too raunchy. Recycles the water and nutrients.


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## rickfrosty

tiogacounty said:


> I Certainly hope you are limiting this observation to the wilds of Maine?
> 
> Yes, I was speaking about ME - I forget how carefull one must be here.


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## chamoisee

I am given to understand that Haiti has very little to nothing in the way of building codes, that pretty much anything goes there. Dunno what land costs, probably pretty cheap? Labor would be next to free, too.


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## CustomDesign

still places here in Missouri where there are no building codes.


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## tiogacounty

rickfrosty said:


> tiogacounty said:
> 
> 
> 
> I Certainly hope you are limiting this observation to the wilds of Maine?
> 
> Yes, I was speaking about ME - I forget how carefull one must be here.
> 
> 
> 
> No harm. I just wanted folks to see the other side.
> 
> Starting at least ten years ago, it seems that the builder's associations and the engineering/ consultant types started to do battle over a statewide code here. IMHO, I really think that a lot of engineering firms though it would be a new gravy train. Train a few folks, send them out to nose around every time an inspection call comes in. Bill at $100+ an hour. Well, the best laid plans of mice and men often fail. Ten years later, you need a heck of a lot of classroom time, and certifications to even hope of being certified to inspect. You need continuing education to keep up with the 1000 page code that is continually changing. You end up with barely enough money to make the nine + visits worth doing, and you end up "owning" everything you sign off on. The place burns down? You better pray that you didn't miss something. The owner has a grudge to settle with you? They call the state and you end up with a review of your work. It's amazing what it has become.
Click to expand...


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## stanb999

tiogacounty said:


> rickfrosty said:
> 
> 
> 
> The owner has a grudge to settle with you? They call the state and you end up with a review of your work. It's amazing what it has become.
> 
> 
> 
> As it should be, :hysterical:
Click to expand...


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## Mavors

You might check out the following website. It's focus is energy codes, but has some good information to help you out reference codes in different states.

Code Status Residential

Mav


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## braidsandboots

Here in rural TN if there are codes they're not enforced. The only time anyone I know had any issues was trying to get their house insured, trying to take out a loan on their house or trying to get their home study done for an adoption.


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## fantasymaker

Most owner built and occupied homes were exempt from most of the code when I checked.


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## Evons hubby

Shrarvrs88 said:


> My family is looking to move, and we are obviously going to build a safe place to live, but want it to be as cheap and money-efficient as possible. Not having to worry about permits and such would really help with that.
> 
> So I was wondering if there is a place (Alaska, maybe?) where you don't have to have all the permits and such to build?


Here in south central Kentucky we have no building codes. The state does have some say in plumbing when it comes to septic systems. we also have the power company to contend with on new service. We have no zoning either, pretty much free to do as we please here. This however is a double edged sword. Great if you know what you are doing, and do it correctly, not quite so good if you dont.


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## Mrs.Swirtz

As far as building in Alaska the money you would save in building permits is not going to make up for the high cost of materials and high cost of living. Any place that you can get away with not having building permits is going to be a ways from towns. Which is going to add to transportation costs. Anything that you build is going to need to be super insulated. I regularly have -40 degrees at my house in the winter. So unless you are heating with wood only and are getting the wood yourself it' is going to be very expensive to heat. Even if you are hauling wood yourself , you'll still need to buy a saw and / or a snowmachine and 4-wheeler to get into the woods to get it. Gas up here is very expensive. If you are looking for a job with any of the trades alot of them are union . Which means you will have to be here at least a year before you can join. There are alot more factors to moving other than just lack of permits. A good majority of jobs up here are seasonal. Which means summer only. Summer only lasts for a month and a half in some elavations. So thats something else to think about. If you are planning to be self sufficient only to realize after you have built a house here that you can't grow all of your food because the growing season is too short and you can't afford animal feed all winter. Then you're screwed. Just some food for thought.


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## landdweller

we r in ohio just bought 7 acres out in country. No codes... thats why we bought it... we can do what we want to


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## lonelytree

Why would anyone build anything that is not up to code? My cabin is overbuilt according to code. 

If you do not understand the codes, then you don't have the expertise to build without following them.


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## lonelytree

Mrs.Swirtz said:


> As far as building in Alaska the money you would save in building permits is not going to make up for the high cost of materials and high cost of living. Any place that you can get away with not having building permits is going to be a ways from towns. Which is going to add to transportation costs. Anything that you build is going to need to be super insulated. I regularly have -40 degrees at my house in the winter. So unless you are heating with wood only and are getting the wood yourself it' is going to be very expensive to heat. Even if you are hauling wood yourself , you'll still need to buy a saw and / or a snowmachine and 4-wheeler to get into the woods to get it. Gas up here is very expensive. If you are looking for a job with any of the trades alot of them are union . Which means you will have to be here at least a year before you can join. There are alot more factors to moving other than just lack of permits. A good majority of jobs up here are seasonal. Which means summer only. Summer only lasts for a month and a half in some elavations. So thats something else to think about. If you are planning to be self sufficient only to realize after you have built a house here that you can't grow all of your food because the growing season is too short and you can't afford animal feed all winter. Then you're screwed. Just some food for thought.


At least you have commercial power near your place and bigger trees...and road access.....and pie when you want some! 

You still working for John?


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## offgrid12

Shrarvrs88 said:


> My family is looking to move, and we are obviously going to build a safe place to live, but want it to be as cheap and money-efficient as possible. Not having to worry about permits and such would really help with that.
> 
> So I was wondering if there is a place (Alaska, maybe?) where you don't have to have all the permits and such to build?




out of city limits mountain home ar
lots of similar minded up here in this area where my land is for sale
call me 936-225-2158 cathy:runforhills:[that is the ozarks ] lol:bouncy:


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## ErinP

lonelytree said:


> Why would anyone build anything that is not up to code? My cabin is overbuilt according to code.
> 
> If you do not understand the codes, then you don't have the expertise to build without following them.


Building to basic codes is one thing (that is, joist spans, header requirements, stair treads, plumbing runs, electric loads, etc.). 
Building to actually PASS code is something else entirely. A glaring example is some states have adopted the full IBC which requires _sprinklers_. 
Do you have sprinklers in your cabin? Do you think they're necessary?


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## Mavors

ErinP said:


> Building to basic codes is one thing (that is, joist spans, header requirements, stair treads, plumbing runs, electric loads, etc.).
> Building to actually PASS code is something else entirely. A glaring example is some states have adopted the full IBC which requires _sprinklers_.
> Do you have sprinklers in your cabin? Do you think they're necessary?


When I build my house I am planning to install fire sprinklers in it even though we don't have to here. This is how it should be...a choice the home owner can make. There are so many code requirements that go well beyond making a home safe. Then again I tend to overbuild everything....should see my chicken coop. lol

Mav


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## oldasrocks

Mavors said:


> When I build my house I am planning to install fire sprinklers in it even though we don't have to here. This is how it should be...a choice the home owner can make. There are so many code requirements that go well beyond making a home safe. Then again I tend to overbuild everything....should see my chicken coop. lol
> 
> Mav


If you put in floor drains it will be easy to clean house too.:bouncy:


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## lonelytree

ErinP said:


> Building to basic codes is one thing (that is, joist spans, header requirements, stair treads, plumbing runs, electric loads, etc.).
> Building to actually PASS code is something else entirely. A glaring example is some states have adopted the full IBC which requires _sprinklers_.
> Do you have sprinklers in your cabin? Do you think they're necessary?


No sprinklers.... or electricity.... or well..... My point was.... if you don't know how to safely build, maybe you should inform yourself. You would not believe some of the cabins in my area. One fell over and it took them 4 years to get it upright. They are lucky it didn't fall off the bluff and land in the lake. Many have no cement board or other protection behind or UNDER their woodstoves AND they are too close to the wall AND they are by the only exit. I won't be staying there. 

If I were to build a new home (full sized), I would put sprinklers in the mechanical room and garage if attached. I may even add them to my current house.


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## ErinP

> if you don't know how to safely build, maybe you should inform yourself.


My point was, code enforcement doesn't necessarily have anything whatsoever to do with actual safety. 
That's the trouble with bureaucracy. :shrug:


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## Mrs.Swirtz

lonelytree said:


> Why would anyone build anything that is not up to code? My cabin is overbuilt according to code.
> 
> If you do not understand the codes, then you don't have the expertise to build without following them.


Well said my friend. Mine is also a little overdone. Better than the crap that the homebuilders slap together.


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## Mrs.Swirtz

lonelytree said:


> At least you have commercial power near your place and bigger trees...and road access.....and pie when you want some!
> 
> You still working for John?


No I quit there. Nobody tips!!! As for the power I don't have any yet. Too expensive to run too my house. As for the pie , I don't eat the junk here only what I make at home.LOL


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## Qhorseman

Morgan County,MO has no building code if you live outside city limits. Over 3 acres you can still have a lagoon if you are not within a certain distance to the lake.


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## cc-rider

I'm building in NW/Central Ohio. Paid about $250 for septic and water permits. Don't need permits for ANYTHING else. You have to watch, though, because some townships are zoned and a mile away in the next township, they aren't. Jobs are plentiful and pay well. Probably $12-$14/hr, no experience. I'm surprised, actually, that there are no codes/permits required where I built, but I checked and checked, and everything is fine. I was told I could live in and build whatever I wanted.


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## Freeholder

It's not that people want to build substandard housing, they just don't want to have to pay through the nose for a building permit. Most of us are fairly capable of figuring out how to build safely -- we don't want our houses falling down on top of us, nor catching on fire, nor rotting from leaky plumbing.

Kathleen


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## cc-rider

Oh, I totally agree. I didn't mean that we build substandard housing. In fact, my house is probably OVERBUILT. I think they just meant that if I decided I wanted to live in a yurt, or underground, or strawbale, I could. No one would care or question me.


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## seeknulfind

The trouble with codes is they start out well-meaning and then just get mean. 

A couple of years ago I was looking for a circuit breaker. I bought a used router that the guy built a cabinet for and installed a breaker box. But it was old and needed replacing. I was searching for one with the same style to fit the box. One of the store employee's asked if I needed any help. He asked what brand it was. I didn't know. He told me I had to replace the breaker with the same brand because the electric code now requires all the breakers to be the same brand.

Who does that benefit? Not the homeowner, I'm sure. Seems to be if manufacturers built their stuff to industry standards, that shouldn't matter.

Andy


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## Deep Woods

God has no building codes, his creatures do not need building codes. And I DO THINK that if God has saw fit to provide me with a piece of property and has provided me the strength to earn the money to pay for it and it belongs to Him and I am caretaker of it.......then NO other person or the government has any right with their nose in my business and no say in what kind of building, home, or any other structure that I can build on the property. 

I refuse to live that way and be controlled by a bunch of wicked, heathen, ignorant, control freak tyrants!!!!!

The gub'mint oppresses the poor by forcing unnecessary cost on them when they are trying to provide housing and food for their families on a land that God has provided.

Micah 2:1 Woe to them that devise iniquity, and work evil upon their beds! when the morning is light, they practise it, because it is in the power of their hand.
Micah 2:2 And they covet fields, and take them by violence; and houses, and take them away: so they oppress a man and his house, even a man and his heritage. 

(1.)They care not what wrong they do, though it be ever so gross and open; they take away men's fields by violence, not only by fraud, and underhand practices and colour of law, but by force and with a high hand. 

(2.) They care not to whom they do wrong nor how far the iniquity extends which they devise: They oppress a man and his house; they rob and ruin those that have numerous families to maintain, and are not concerned though they send them and their wives and children a begging. They oppress a man and his heritage; they take away from men that which they have an unquestionable title to, having received it from their ancestors, and which they have but in trust, to transmit it to their posterity; but those oppressors care not how many they impoverish, so they may but enrich themselves. Note, If covetousness reigns in the heart, commonly all compassion is banished from it; and if any man love this world, the love of his neighbour is not in him. -_ Matthew Henry_


I own my property and home after 20 years of hard work and if you don't mess with me, then I won't be forced to mess you. But the following Proverb is true!

Proverbs 20:3 It is an honour for a man to cease from strife: *but every fool will be meddling.* _it seems the gub'mint and some individuals are always "meddling"_

Have a blessed day


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## sisterpine

This is terrible! What the heck is a road entrance permit anyway. Permission to drive on your own road?
I cannot see why you need a permit for remodeling at all. The house was most likely built to code if you are in a city and other than that is no business of anyones.

You ought to see what it costs all told. I am remodeling, so my permit is $1500. You need a road entrance permit ($150), a septic permit ($500??) a water meter ($5000 minimum), then you get to pay property taxes on it forever. 

In town it's even worse. I looked at a lot in town, it's $50k before you even break ground.


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## MushCreek

Where I'm building, you pay for a driveway entrance because there are drainage ditches on both sides of the road, and they have to be sure you put in a proper culvert and don't impede the flow of storm water. Makes sense to me. Once you want to access a public road from your private land, there are responsibilities.

I agree; permit fees are insane. In SC, my permits will be a few hundred dollars, which is reasonable since they have to keep inspectors on the payroll. Here in FL, the same permits would be thousands, and in some states, like CA, tens of thousands. That's ridiculous. What they're really saying is, "We don't want you to build at all, but if you're stupid enough to pay the extortion, we'll let you build." In other words- everything has a price, even in CA.

As for DeepWoods comments- You never really 'own' your land; you rent it from the government. Try not paying your rent (taxes) and see how long you will own it. Although taxes have gone completely out of control, we are also instructed to 'render unto Caesar that which is Caesar's'. Caesar seems to want an awful lot lately!

As I've said before- building codes do have a purpose (besides lining the pockets of politicians and special-interest groups). They are to insure that whatever you build won't be a hazard to other people. Would you really want to buy a house built by an un-trained builder who didn't have to follow code? Most DIY'ers actually build pretty good homes- it's for their own use, after all. It's unscrupulous builders that are the problem. Unfortunately, most inspectors rubber-stamp the builders without really looking to see their work.

I think the answer is to let you build whatever you want for your own usage, providing it isn't a hazard to people not on your property, and doesn't drag down the value of the neighboring properties. If you had the money for a beach house in Malibu, I'm pretty sure you wouldn't want Jed-In-The-Shed living next door. The catch would be that you couldn't sell the property without either a comprehensive inspection, or tear the place down and sell the land. I imagine insurance companies wouldn't touch an un-inspected structure either. Of course, this will never happen, so people who want to avoid all of this hassle and cost will have to keep moving farther out in the boonies.


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## Deep Woods

Let's look at some more of that Scripture from Micah....

Micah 2:1 Woe to them that devise iniquity, and work evil upon their beds! when the morning is light, they practise it, because it is in the power of their hand.
Micah 2:2 And they covet fields, and take them by violence; and houses, and take them away: so they oppress a man and his house, even a man and his heritage. 
Micah 2:3 Therefore thus saith the LORD; Behold, against this family do I devise an evil, from which ye shall not remove your necks; neither shall ye go haughtily: for this time is evil.


How does the earth that God created belong to the government? 
IT DOES NOT...period!!!

The government has "taken" the land and charges whatever kind of tax, fine or etc. that they like "because it is in the power of their hand" (_see Micah 2:1 - They think they may do whatever they have power and opportunity to do._), "they oppress a man and his house, even a man and his heritage." (_see Micah 2:2_)

They who perform a wicked act "because it is in the power of their hand," have neither fear of God nor love of justice; and will commit any crime when opportunity offers. Boy...does that describe the government, politicians, tax collectors, insurance companies, inspectors, and...must I go on?

Might...not what is right, is what regulates their conduct. Where they can, they commit oppression; where they do not, it is because they cannot.

They employ their power in executing what they have designed and contrived; they practice the iniquity they have devised, because it is in the power of their hand; they find that they can compass it by the help of their wealth, and the authority and interest they have, and that none dare control them, or call them to an account for it; and this, they think, will justify them and bear them out in it. 

So we know by _Micah 2:3,_ that in the end these "Caesars" _(crooked leaders, politicians)_ and "Caesars helpers" (_inspectors, tax collectors, etc.._) will get their due punishment for the oppression they bring upon the people. 

I have to pay my taxes, this is true...and I do it only because I know what God is going to do in the end.


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## francismilker

To my knowledge, most or all of rural Oklahoma doesn't require building codes other than sewage perc tests inorder to obtain a water tap. (Unless you buy some land that has been deemed a "development" that has building covenants.) 

I'm of the mindset that if what I'm doing doesn't effect anybody else than me I ought to be able to do what I want to on my own land. Now, if infact I had raw sewage running down the ditches and polluting others' land, I'd expect to be made to control it.


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## mommathea

barnyardgal said:


> no codes in Missouri in the country except septic tanks and i think if you have over 3 acres or so you can get by with a lagoon,not sure...
> 
> Good luck!!


That depends on the County - Cass county requires over 5 acres, but you have to get a permit for anything you do with waste water. 
So when checking with state regs, you need to back check with the county codes.


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## Ray

Hi, in MO i believe there are several counties with lesser building codes. Washington county is where all the politicians go, low taxes, very few building codes and they will keep it that way because the politicians want it for themselves. All other counties you will have to check individually.
some have extremely strict building codes, the building inspectors don't even know what they are. kind of make stuff up as they go along so you gotta watch them, and make them show you in the reg. book when they get silly, to prove what they say is a code,many times they can't even find it soooo, they say well its code I know, well show it to me somewhere on paper or?


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## Elevenpoint

Codes are a starting point, that would be the minimum and you can go up from there....Whether I am building for myself or a customer, any structure will exceed code, that is where I am comfortable.
The enforcement and permit fees are a seperate issue, if you do not want to pay a certain price for permits and enforcement....look elsewhere.


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## HeelSpur

I helped a friend of mine build his shop/garage and all he needed was a permit that cost around 25 bucks for 6 months. Not a soul came by to see what he was building (except for nosy people).


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## Patriot1776

I recently moved my family from rural Clark County Washington to Hamlin County South Dakota where everything is rural. The cost of permits to re-shingle your house cost more than the new roof in WA, here in SD there is no permit required for the new roof, but since everyone knows everyone else, if you screw up on the roof and it fails, everyone will know to avoid you and your business will go down the drain. 

Clark County WA requires permits for taking down a tree (unless it is dangerous), for washing cars in the driveway, for adding a light, and just about anything else you can think of. There is a point when the permits and inspections go too far, but most places with a population density of less than 25 people per square mile will not hassle you with stupidity. These are the places I prefer to live anyhow so the govn't goons don';t bother me too much. I still hate to see such stupidity get passed as law; it's as if the politicians figure that if they can't make sense of it then it must be good enough to become law.

I know the next county over from Hamlin, which happens to be Clark County SD, has very little in the way of regulation for construction. Jobs seem to be plentiful although you will have to drive a ways for work, and finding an available house for rent is rather difficult (read: near impossible) but there are plenty of places for sale.


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## romysbaskets

Out here it may cost less to get the permits but you have to get them for everything and they are strict about building codes...yes on an island with no businesses or stores? Really? We bought a country style home that looks like a cabin inside. It would not pass the current building codes but is grandfathered in. We love it but can't imagine the hassle of building here. Better to buy something on auction and remodel a bit out here, 
Washington taxes every single thing imaginable....never seen such a high amount anywhere we have lived, highest cell phone tax in the country, not to mention what they make on cigarettes (we don't smoke) and liquor is very high too, property taxes also too high. They assessed houses out here higher than what they can be sold for to tax? I can't recommend getting a place out here at this time but dearly love living on a scenic private island. 

I was on a trip to Colorado, got back this week. I was impressed by all the wide open spaces and beautiful country we have in the US. One state we drove through that we usually do at night, was during the day this time. We were just loving all we saw in Montana....wow. It was gorgeous! Many states still have a lot less required in rural areas. I would first check for the weather you can deal with, then research the states that have the seasons you feel comfortable with, then look at the costs you have in the list you have assembled. Our climate is temperate but I lived in really cold ones before. I didn't like the dryness in Colorado but loved visiting. The post beetles have ruined the trees there...so sad. Jobs where you build is essential or an income that supports you once you move. It is really hard to redesign your life in every way but it can be done....


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## sticky_burr

seems to e when i rise to power (insert evil laugh here) permits will be self supporting and free. a contractor decides to build a house with no permit and its shoddy 25k or 10% fine that will pay for alot of permits and inspections

really they are the ones that should know this stuff alot of home owners arent sure if you need a permit but there should be some responsibility there as well. ie hey i'll just hide junction points behind basement drywall and sell the house.

never under estimate ones annothers stupidity in DIY


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## ErinP

To be fair, I've seen an awful lot of _professional_ stupidity, too. lol

If my house is screwed up, I'd rather it be because I screwed it up than that I'd PAID someone to do so. 

Truth be told, I really don't think those who want to avoid codes are doing so because they don't want to BUILD to code, but rather that they don't want to have to deal with inspectors. Or, we might want to avoid the aspects of the code that are a bit over the top. 
For example, I might just want to build my stair balusters to the old 6" rule, rather than the current 4". It's the extremely rare child who, by the time they're mobile, has a head smaller than 6" in diameter.  Or maybe I want a Jeffersonian stair to access my loft. (Which, because of the off-set treads, is completely out of the question where the code is concerned).

And for those who've said that they build to EXCEED code, what does that mean? 
You build your stair balusters _closer_ than 4" apart?? You install _more_ sprinklers than are specified??


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## Elevenpoint

Exceed code? more sprinkler heads than is required would be one....
anything that is above the minimum required, and yes, you could put your balusters 2'' on center.


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## offgrid12

rickfrosty said:


> In unorganised townships in Maine you have to buy a permit to build, but it isn't much & they aren't fussy about what you build.
> They're not all over the place but the trailer-build-around isn't uncommon. That must be about the cheapest way to build. Take one not new cheap mobile home, set it up on cement pads or blocks (a gravel pad is nice if you can), then encase with a house - you already have the heat, water, wiring & plumbing.
> You can make a strong roof & have much better insulation.
> You can also have just an outhouse & a greywater bed, but this will have to be designed by a 'soil scientist' for about $200 - that is the 1st step in getting your building permit. You will have to tell this person that you will have hand-carried (or hand pumped) water only.
> Just don't expect to be able to sell it easily later.


ARKANSAS ,NO PERMITS ON BUILDING ON MY LAND,MOBILES OK,TRAILERS TOO
THEY WANT YOU perk ,test most do not..
:bored:


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## offgrid12

oldasrocks said:


> If you put in floor drains it will be easy to clean house too.:bouncy:


:nanner::hysterical::hysterical::hysterical::help:


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## ErinP

elevenpoint said:


> Exceed code? more sprinkler heads than is required would be one....
> anything that is above the minimum required, and yes, you could put your balusters 2'' on center.


Well of course that CAN be done. 
My question was, ARE you doing so?

And if so--why?


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## Ross

We'll build to exceed code at times when the situation would seem to require it. If you knew you were going to put the heaviest tub and a natural stone floor above a closet you might well narrow up the studs to help support the floor a bit better. Code should still do it but code could also be a little behind in its revisions leaving you with a bowed downstairs closet door! Code might let you leave a drain un vented due to its proximity to another vent.... OK sure but for $5 it has its own vent and if the other gets plugged your sink still drains nicely. Code will spec a minimum of electrical plugs to a room, exceeding that can be very helpful depending on the room. Most kitchens can use a spare T slot 20! There's probably a million other reason to exceed code.


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## ErinP

Sure. And exceeding in _some_ cases makes perfect sense. Again, I'd venture to guess that there's really nothing unusual with that. 

But that's not what was said. People keep saying they "exceed code." 
Which would mean ALL of it, wouldn't it??


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## Elevenpoint

Ross's post is a good example, there are certain situations where you should....a large window opening you may use laminated beams instead of dimensional lumber....more of a judgement call on what the situation requires, I think more of the tricks of the trade type of thing where it is your personal style of how you build.


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## Ross

ErinP said:


> Sure. And exceeding in _some_ cases makes perfect sense. Again, I'd venture to guess that there's really nothing unusual with that.
> 
> But that's not what was said. People keep saying they "exceed code."
> Which would mean ALL of it, wouldn't it??


Well to keep it simple. No it wouldn't. In some areas the code is ample. Like truss design.


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## ErinP

elevenpoint said:


> Ross's post is a good example, there are certain situations where you should....


Ah. 
THAT makes sense. 
The blanket statements, "I build to exceed code" on the other hand, did not. 

Exceeding for specific needs is kind of a given, I tend to think...


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## Ross

> Exceeding for specific needs is kind of a given, I tend to think...


 Unfortunately large developers rarely exceed code, lots frequently try to slip a few past the inspectors too. There may be builders who oversize everything, that's almost as crazy as going cheap.


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## francismilker

There's many a good log cabin still standing that was built way before codes, architects, and covenants. 

As long as a person is doing something on their land and happy and it don't affect the neighbor's property value and safety more power to them. 

I'd say a blanket statement like "exceed codes" could be said for a 12" diameter post oak log used for a ridge pole couldn't it? 

The thread title is "Homestead Construction" not "Homes for the Rich". In homesteading, the most common goal, IMHO, is to do for less and with less. I know, I know, we want our family safe, warm, and dry. It's just that I can't see homestead construction having an architect or building codes involved.


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## Ross

> The thread title is "Homestead Construction" not "Homes for the Rich". In homesteading, the most common goal, IMHO, is to do for less and with less. I know, I know, we want our family safe, warm, and dry. It's just that I can't see homestead construction having an architect or building codes involved.


While I admire the sentiment, the last thing I'd want is for someone to be stung by reality. This forum should deal with both dreams and the world they face to become reality. If its not then it's not one second shared, a bit useful.


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## Ray

Codes are supposed to protect the future buyer from crap and junk, and the living owner from crap and junk. That said i don't understand some of the codes. 

You can now buy vertical airspace, to keep someone from building in an area upwards that might for example block your satellite, earth station, or view. There are sure a bunch of things out there many of us don't deal with, or even have a clue of.


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## ErinP

Ross said:


> Unfortunately large developers rarely exceed code, lots frequently try to slip a few past the inspectors too. There may be builders who oversize everything, that's almost as crazy as going cheap.


Oh, I guess I thought we were talking about people doing their own...

Like I said above, I've seen a plenty of _professional_ stupidity. lol


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## Ross

We are but independant contractors compare their work to developers and DIY ers. There are good and bad in all.



ErinP said:


> Oh, I guess I thought we were talking about people doing their own...
> 
> Like I said above, I've seen a plenty of _professional_ stupidity. lol


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## roachhill

You don't have to forget PA entirely, if you locate out in the woods you can get a cabin permit. Cabins don't have to be built to code or pass any inspections. More importantly it's perfectly legal to "camp" in your cabin 365 days a year. The codes mandate traditional construction and prevent alternative construction making sure no one develops a better method that would threaten the status quo in construction.


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## Lisaa

The Mesa near Taos, New Mexico.......... anything goes........


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## Buttonball

Sorry I know this thread is 2 years old but since it's one of only a few threads on the entire internet on the subject I have to weigh in.

Having recently attempted and failed (at least for now) to build a cabin in GA, the biggest problem I have with the highly restrictive zoning requirements and the state building code that we have is that in order to get a CO, you have to not only dry-in (which is relatively cheap) but also finish out, nearly entirely, the whole structure and all the electrical and plumbing (not cheap) so if you're trying to pay as you go and work on it and live in it as you do, this is prohibited here. If you didn't have to meet code, you could live in the structure once it was safe to do so and save money while you work on the place. For me, that's why a lack of building codes is appealing.

I kid you not, even in a rural area of N. GA, you have to sheetrock every wall and ceiling, You need to have your kitchen and bathroom fixtures in (at least the sinks toilets and stoves) electricity is not optional, you have to be wired to the grid, and you also need a central HVAC system that is capable of heating each room of the house to at least 68 degrees when measured from 3' off the floor. Space heaters and wood stoves are not acceptable. Did I say this was in rural north ga?

If it were just a matter of safety, I'd be OK with having the building codes but It's very apparent to me that the building codes are all part of the machine. They want to keep the local tradespeople employed. They need to know the value so they can assess property taxes and we're supposed to be mortgaged to the hilt, buy pre-built large subdivision homes and use as much utilities as possible whether we want to or not, that is what we must do then we must all get 2 or 3 jobs to pay for it all! And don't get me started on the local zoning regs! :sob:


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## wharton

Buttonball said:


> If it were just a matter of safety, I'd be OK with having the building codes but It's very apparent to me that the building codes are all part of the machine. They want to keep the local tradespeople employed. They need to know the value so they can assess property taxes and we're supposed to be mortgaged to the hilt, buy pre-built large subdivision homes and use as much utilities as possible whether we want to or not, that is what we must do then we must all get 2 or 3 jobs to pay for it all! And don't get me started on the local zoning regs! :sob:


Well, you have the right church, wrong pew. Codes have nothing to do with local anything. Not keeping local tradespeople working, or protecting locals in the least. They fleece the locals and send the profits elsewhere. 

Current residential building codes do two things as their primary focus. They create and perpetuate a very profitable bureaucracy, and they provide a tool to mandate the use of materials as specified by corrupt and very powerful interests. It does matter where you look, from the fraud of mandatory home fire sprinklers, to the way specific outfits work hard to force their products on the public, IE Simpson, Dow, and countless other industry giants, behind every door you will find somebody stuffing money in their pockets. My township went from very little interest in residential code enforcement in 2006 to currently paying an independent engineering firm at least $40K a MONTH to handle code issues. From nothing to half a million a year, in a rural township. The average new house in that time saw $8-10K in additional expenses to meet code requirements, so there is another $700K to a million a year in expenses in our rural community. multiply this game by tens of thousands of jurisdictions and it's not hard to figure out what code enforcement is all about. 

No different than any other crime committed today, follow the money.


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## hercsmama

Rural Nebraska is another with no codes. People out here just pretty much do what they want. 
Insurance wise, well you might have some trouble. We didn't, and we have a cesspool instead of a septic.
I think it'll have alot to do with the insurance company you use, we are with Farm Bureau.


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## cqp33

I am putting a modular home on top of a basement, actually having it done in East TN. Since I travel for work and am gone 90% of the time I had to make the builders (Clayton Home) foot the bill for a structural engineer of my choice. Just so happens I know this engineer personally so I knew there would be no corruption there. Anyways here the only code requirement is your electrical will be inspected by the electric company prior to it being connected. No water inspection, you pay the fee and they provide a tap at the road with a meter. Sewage does require a perk test prior to placing a septic system, that is a flat $500 fee. As far as your house goes, build it how you want and live in it but again I am in rural east TN. I hired the structural engineer to ensure they didn't cut any corners on the foundation/basement because there is no inspectors here and I am gone for work to often to "babysit" the contractors.


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## plowhand

My problem with the whole deal......Most inspectors seem to have no working knowledge of what they are inspecting.....Also the county seems to honor who you are when they decide what you can do.....to the point of having to get state senators involved ...............having to spend almost $20,000 to put in a septic system on a 15 acre piece of land.....houses all around no septic troubles for 40 years......permit to replace window in house.....get real.....


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## big rockpile

barnyardgal said:


> no codes in Missouri in the country except septic tanks and i think if you have over 3 acres or so you can get by with a lagoon,not sure...
> 
> Good luck!!


Yea what is these building codes you talk of?

Yelp barnyardgal its 3 acres. You can get away with Outhouse just want to be in right area and not get caught 

big rockpile


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## MushCreek

The required inspections here in SC are a joke. My previous inspection was for the basement slab, before the house was built. The next inspection was for framing, rough electric, and rough plumbing. I built an entire house, finished the outside, plumbed it and wired it, but when they came to inspect, they didn't even shut their truck off! I spent a year building, and they spent about 3 minutes inspecting. In a way, its nice to not be hassled, but the point of inspection should be to ensure proper construction, not just collect fees. I have seen houses built by contractors that should be a textbook on code violations.


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## wharton

MushCreek said:


> The required inspections here in SC are a joke. My previous inspection was for the basement slab, before the house was built. The next inspection was for framing, rough electric, and rough plumbing. I built an entire house, finished the outside, plumbed it and wired it, but when they came to inspect, they didn't even shut their truck off! I spent a year building, and they spent about 3 minutes inspecting. In a way, its nice to not be hassled, but the point of inspection should be to ensure proper construction, not just collect fees. I have seen houses built by contractors that should be a textbook on code violations.


 It's not limited to SC. In the last year I have built two new homes where "competitors" were also building on the same street. In both cases, from the street, I saw serious structural issues that will create expensive failures down the road. We pay rough $3K in fees to build a modest home. The inspectors are both late middle aged folks who work for an outside engineering firm. They have little understanding of what they are looking at, and zero real world experience at any trade. They are semi-skilled bureaucrats who know how to get through the various levels of code enforcement education, and they are skilled at playing with paperwork.
We are talking about two clowns that spent a 30+ year work life doing something other than being in the construction industry, then getting jobs in the newly created code enforcement boom. It boggles the mind. 

A local builder just had a battle with one of the aforementioned clowns. She was constantly failing roof sheathing, as it was undersized for the span. The builder made her go to the Toyota Prius company car she drives (I am dead serious about the car, got to be PC after all, eh?) and grab the book. He asks her to cite where she is getting this info. since it directly conflicts the 4" tall span chart printed on every sheet? She reads to "rule" and says, "See, I've been catching this issues for the last ten years" He looks at the book and tells her that she is reading the wrong part of the section, she is on the part about board sheathing, as in how far apart rafter need to be if you are nailing 1" X 6" pine boards on the roof!!!!!............ Wow, he had to walk away.


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## Gray Wolf

I'll go against the flow and support building codes. Kinda. They are currently overdone in many areas but they do provide assurance to the next owner that the "stuff" inside the walls is safe and proper, that the structure should resist (hopefully) earthquake, snow loads, and winds to a reasonable extent. While Homesteaders here may have the skills to do this without a code guidebook, most people do not. My bank and insurance company will need assurance that the structure is safe and solid.

Having said that, and built a few houses, with permits, people need to FULLY understand the codes. For instance, one poster lamented the need for drywall to get occupancy. I thought so to at one time but determined that the code required insulation (fair enough) with fire resistant covering. People automatically think drywall, but I met code on this house by using a fire resistant membrane over the insulation (it came in 4' wide rolls that I just stapled over the fiberglass). Uncovered fiberglass or paper backed won't pass. Now there was indeed a bit of a discussion with the inspector over this but once he reread "The Book" and saw the spec on the material I proposed, we were good to go.

Yes, codes result in some overkill, and I don't agree with some of them, like sprinklers, but I'd a lot rather live next to a code house than something (not you) some fool put together out of scraps and is just waiting to catch fire or fall on my place in a windstorm.


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## John_Canada

Just a comment on the original poster's comment, in Canada at least (not sure of US), no one owns the land except the Queen. The royal family grants you the right to work the land for profit, reside on the land and transfer this right to another for money. Ever doubt this fact just stop paying your property tax and see how fast they take the land back.

The reason I say this is because this is exactly why you need permits blah blah blah. It is a government cash grab or else why would you have to pay them anything? In my area we are even stuck with a $16K redevelopment fee! For what? That is not even the permits to build or hook up to the grid or anything. You cannot build a structure under 1000 sqft until their is a +1000 sqft structure on the property. The codes they have here are ABSOLUTELY silly as others have said. The one that gets me the most is the 4 foot frost dig. Scandinavians have been using shallow foundations for 50 years and it is MUCH colder there than here. This saves tens of thousands of dollars of unnecessary materials, digging and concrete but our building dept looks down on it and you need an expensive engineer to design it if you do do it thus getting rid of the savings.

Most codes I do agree with but they are changing over time here (loosening up) especially to do with stud placements and shear controls. However, at the same time they have increased insulation and energy codes. Catch 22.

Saying all that, I know in some areas of OHIO, an architect can help you get around the building codes tho (or so I have been told).


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## Tinkman

We live in rural Ohio and for the most part there are no building codes as long as you live outside of village limits. We put up a storage shed building and it wasn't even inspected. We did have to keep it 25' away from the neighbors property but this wasn't a big deal. However, things seem to be changing more a more even in the rural areas and to be quite honest, there is going to be more and more regulation.


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## libertygirl

In CO they have septic, home building, electrical, water, fence, sign, outbuildings, additions, property line, uggggg....animal.... you get the point. It's all about the almighty dollar. Taxes are assessed on every square inch you build or have built!! NOPE don't come to CO.! That is why we are outa here!! (part of it anyhow) Too much in your face politics too.


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## wharton

roachhill said:


> You don't have to forget PA entirely, if you locate out in the woods you can get a cabin permit. Cabins don't have to be built to code or pass any inspections. More importantly it's perfectly legal to "camp" in your cabin 365 days a year. The codes mandate traditional construction and prevent alternative construction making sure no one develops a better method that would threaten the status quo in construction.


 Having built homes for a living in NEPA, since the IRC was adopted, I'm not sure that it's as easy as you claim, or at least it isn't going to fly in many areas of the state. It isn't if the AHJ, which is bureaucrat for the Authority Having jurisdiction, decides to follow the letter of the law. The law states that you will be issued a permit to build a recreational dwelling, and a C.O upon completion, if you #1 have a permanent address elsewhere, and#2 swear that said structure is for you own use, and for recreational, part time use only. Since there are tax and "life safety" issues to permanently occupying a substandard, temporary use building, believe me, if you are in an area with strict enforcement, they are going to come knocking. When the IRC was first adopted, it was popular to go the cabin permit route, after a few years of learning that that grass wasn't as green as it initially looked, it isn't too common any more in this area. 

I'm certainly not saying that it doesn't work well in remote central PA. or the northern Tier, at the moment, but code enforcement is like a disease, it can spread, and get worse.


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## Evons hubby

wharton said:


> code enforcement is like a disease, it can spread, and get worse.


amen!!! We had an idiot here in our county a few years ago promoting the "merits" iof installing zoning.. after confronting the local citizenry in an open meeting to discuss the issue he and his zoning nonsense left town in a hurry. He argued elloquenty for a while... till he caught the odor of hot tar and noticed feathers floating in the air. All at once the benefits of zoning weren't important any more!

As deputy Fife says.... you gotta nip it... nip it in the bud!


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## HuskyBoris

codes somewhat have a place as far as building to meet them (or most of them),,most codes are fairly common sense like not using 2x4's 4ft apart for trusses or having a certain # of electrical components on 1 circuit,no fuse box below plumbing or making sure your sewage at least makes it out of the house properly.
that being said I don't always adhere strictly to it myself but I try to make it as safe and strong as possible after all it would really suck to have your house fall in on ya,get flooded or catch fire because of something you didn't want to do to save a couple bucks,,a biggee around here lately has been woodstove related fires so be smart with that too.


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## ErinP

> Did I say this was in rural north ga?


You're talking about a _very_ populated area. 

Look at a population density map:
2000 U.S. population density in persons per sq. mile (contiguous U.S. only). Averaged on a per-county basis.
Legend, light to dark (white to dark blue):
0-1 (white)
1-4 (yellow)
5-9 (yellow-green)
10-24 (green)
25-49 (teal)
50-99 (dark teal)
100-249 (blue)
250-66,995 (dark blue)










Generally speaking, you're going to have more freedoms in areas with more yellow/white. 
I live in Kansas, for example. Extreme eastern Kansas has a _lot_ of rules and regulations. Western, OTOH, does not for the simple fact that people tend to be more independent, and there are far fewer bodies to fill non-vital roles, like code inspectors...


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## michael ark

I have worked hand in hand with code inspectors for years and for the most part they are not needed. Most code enforcement here don't even have a ladder on their truck. How can you inspect a attic or roof installed anything with out a ladder . Most of them her are retired hvac ,electric , etc.. They are to old fat and broken down to crawl under a house or walk joist across a attic. A steak house here had to have fire doors code here called for 2 HR fire doors .He got 3HR exceeding code the fire marshal would not pass them till he got a $700 DONATION to his fishing fund. Some I have dealt with fell the have to find something wrong so they nit pick stupid stuff and let safety things go. A lot of them its just a popularity contest.


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## Alaska

Working in the building industry in lumber/hardware sales and having built and sold a few homes. My advice to anyone selling a home and worried about getting that home up to par for inspection. Always leave a bone for the inspector on the surface or he is likely to dig until he finds something more serious and expensive. There are very few homes if any that are at 100% compliance. Most inspectors are not happy if they dont find something.


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## Alaska

I think if a person can only afford a couple dozen 2x4's and a tarp he should be able to live in it on his land . And I will not live anywhere that is overrun by the government fee collectors.
When we built our home here in Texas our closest neighbor did not believe I could install my septic system myself and neither did the fools in the county courthouse. But I had printed out the rules and regs and had them in hand. 
It is not rocket science. A backhoe helps. And dry ground


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## saltydogburt

The home i live in right now was built in 1868.Cedar logs rough lumber on one end just 4" to 5" poles for trusses.Limestone foundation on the ground.Its been here a long time.I built a log cabin 20 plus years ago first thing i ever built.One room 16x24 lived in it for 8 years no power outhouse gas lights wood heat.Just 32 bear hounds and me.were still alive nothing fell in on us.Didnt die from black mold.Its a shame big brother controls so much of our lives. People think its ok or normal to ask permission to do anything.You can build most anything for farm use without the fortune in permits.I know someone who built a very large pole barn then built a house inside out of sight of prying eyes.Just leave this long haired country boy alone.


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## cqp33

I built a 16 X 20 foot barn type building in TX which is in a wind storm zone, when the city inspector came he was saying this and that about the way I built the building and how it needed more of this and that! I had a structural engineer there at the same time since I had to hire one anyways because I was in a wind zone. The same structural engineer certified our house and they argued for a while, but in the end the engineer said if there is a storm leave your house and go in the building you built.

I built it with rough cut 2 X 4's on 12" center
doors, windows and corners were triple stacked 2 x 4's
ceiling of the first floor/floor of the second was 2 x 8' on 12" center
roof trusses were 2 x 8's on 12" center, each truss had 2 x 6's in 8 places connecting each other.
siding was 1 x 8's overlapped 2"
roof decking was 1 x 8's
all nails where ring shank, 2 x 4 nails were 4" ring shanks, all trusses had steel plates on each joint, roof decking and siding were 3 1/2" ring shank nails.

the reason i was able to do all of this is my father in law cut all the lumber on a wood mizer mill, so i had the lumber so i used it!
in other word this building was over engineered beyond belief and the city inspector still tried to give me grief. It wasn't until the structural engineer asked him his background to make that decision that he caved. He had never built anything in his life!


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## Evons hubby

Gray Wolf said:


> I'll go against the flow and support building codes. Kinda. They are currently overdone in many areas but they do provide assurance to the next owner that the "stuff" inside the walls is safe and proper, that the structure should resist (hopefully) earthquake, snow loads, and winds to a reasonable extent. While Homesteaders here may have the skills to do this without a code guidebook, most people do not. My bank and insurance company will need assurance that the structure is safe and solid.
> 
> Having said that, and built a few houses, with permits, people need to FULLY understand the codes. For instance, one poster lamented the need for drywall to get occupancy. I thought so to at one time but determined that the code required insulation (fair enough) with fire resistant covering. People automatically think drywall, but I met code on this house by using a fire resistant membrane over the insulation (it came in 4' wide rolls that I just stapled over the fiberglass). Uncovered fiberglass or paper backed won't pass. Now there was indeed a bit of a discussion with the inspector over this but once he reread "The Book" and saw the spec on the material I proposed, we were good to go.
> 
> Yes, codes result in some overkill, and I don't agree with some of them, like sprinklers, but I'd a lot rather live next to a code house than something (not you) some fool put together out of scraps and is just waiting to catch fire or fall on my place in a windstorm.


I will hazard a guess here that our log home with all wood interior would not pass that inspector! There isn't many fire resistant specie of oak and poplar I ever heard of.


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## wharton

Gray Wolf said:


> I'll go against the flow and support building codes. Kinda. They are currently overdone in many areas but they do provide assurance to the next owner that the "stuff" inside the walls is safe and proper, that the structure should resist (hopefully) earthquake, snow loads, and winds to a reasonable extent. While Homesteaders here may have the skills to do this without a code guidebook, most people do not. My bank and insurance company will need assurance that the structure is safe and solid.
> 
> Having said that, and built a few houses, with permits, people need to FULLY understand the codes. For instance, one poster lamented the need for drywall to get occupancy. I thought so to at one time but determined that the code required insulation (fair enough) with fire resistant covering. People automatically think drywall, but I met code on this house by using a fire resistant membrane over the insulation (it came in 4' wide rolls that I just stapled over the fiberglass). Uncovered fiberglass or paper backed won't pass. Now there was indeed a bit of a discussion with the inspector over this but once he reread "The Book" and saw the spec on the material I proposed, we were good to go.
> 
> Yes, codes result in some overkill, and I don't agree with some of them, like sprinklers, but I'd a lot rather live next to a code house than something (not you) some fool put together out of scraps and is just waiting to catch fire or fall on my place in a windstorm.


 If codes had any real significance in how well a building is built, you may have a point. When inspectors spend a few minutes on a job, and most of that staring at a print, I have no faith in the alleged benefit of the system. When I can spot significant violations from the street, that are ignored by the inspector, I am not impressed. When an inspector misses huge issues, yet threatens to fail a home on final since there isn't a silly little label inside the electrical box, noting the insulation installed in the home, I am not impressed. When an inspector fails a project during plan review for a long list of insignificant tiny little details, and wastes weeks while demanding revised prints, I am not impressed. This is a system that has provided billions in revenue to various government agencies and their chosen bureacrats, and greatly increased the cost of construction, with very little tangible benefit to the customer.

Having built dozens of new homes both before, and after, the IRC turned the whole process into a bureaucratic mess, do I think things are generally better, and the customer is getting a better product........... absolutely not.


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