# Disturbing info about goat milk!



## Narnia75 (May 16, 2015)

I was doing some research re hormones and raw goat milk and found this! It sounds quite disturbing! We bought goats because we thought that goat milk is so healthy!

Good for health? Stop kidding

"For those people who experience cows' milk intolerance, goats' milk is an ideal substituteâ¦â Delamere boast on their web site. Others claim that it is also perfect for people with cowsâ milk allergies. But what does the science say? Goatsâ milk has virtually the same lactose (sugar) content as cowsâ milk! Goatsâ milk contains 4.4g lactose per 100g of milk; whole cowsâ milk contains 4.5g and semi-skimmed cowsâ milk, 4.7g. Patrizia Restani, Department of Pharmacological Sciences, State University Milan, reviewed the science on allergies and goat milk and concluded that goatsâ milk is wholly unsuitable for the lactose intolerant. Even more serious is milk allergy, caused by proteins in milk, not sugars. Restani states that claims that goatsâ milk is less allergenic than cowsâ milk are âcontroversialâ and have ânot been provedâ. She adds that there are more papers showing the opposite! For example, 26 infants aged five months to seven years who were allergic to cowsâ milk protein were tested for goatsâ milk allergy. Twenty four out of 26 were allergic to both. In another study, 22 out of 28 children were allergic to both milks and just six to cowsâ milk alone. Several independent studies have shown that milks from different animals all evoke the same immune reaction in people with cowsâ milk allergy. Restani forcefully concludes that given the severity of the reaction in some people to goatsâ milk â including hives, eczema, difficulty in breathing and vomiting â goatsâ milk âmust not be considered an appropriate replacement for infants/children with cowsâ milk allergyâ and that âlabels suggesting use of goatâs milk for intolerant/hypersensitive people should be banned.â

Hormone cocktail

It is a fact (though not widely acknowledged by the dairy industry!) that cowsâ milk contains 35 hormones and 11 growth factors, the most devastating being insulinlike growth factor 1 (IGF-1). Levels of IGF-1 in blood can be a strong indicator of whether a person will develop cancer. It controls growth and development in both cows and people but each species has very different rates of growth. IGF-1 in cowsâ milk, survives pasteurisation and can cross the intestinal wall and enter human blood. Even small increases in levels of IGF-1 increase the risk of several common cancers, including breast, prostate, lung and colon. The big question is: does goatsâ milk contain IGF-1? Scientists conclude that: âIGF-1 is present in goat milkâ and can survive in commercial milk products. Another hormone present in both cowsâ and goatsâ milk is oestrogen, though at a lesser concentration in goat milk. Again, it has been particularly linked to hormonedependent cancers such as breast, ovary and prostate. Most oestrogens in our diet come from animalsâ milk and those in goatsâ milk are precursors to âcatechol oestrogensâ, strong promoters of cancer.

Mind the bugs donâtâ¦

Unpasteurised goatsâ milk is sometimes hailed as a safer alternative to raw cowsâ milk. A UK study examined 131 frozen and fresh samples of unpasteurised goat and sheep milk from 79 retail outlets and around half failed the legal standards. They were rife with pathogenic (disease-causing) bacteria, many of which indicated faecal contamination. Scientists conducting the study suggested that unpasteurised goatsâ milk should be banned.

Fat kid

Fat, however, may be an even bigger disincentive to sales, according to the Journal of Dairy Science (2012). âThe largest health concern for consumers of goatsâ milk is likely to be its elevated fat content compared to cowsâ milk. More troubling is how much of the fat in goatsâ milk is saturated fatâ¦ if one is looking for a heart-healthy diet that includes dairyâ¦ goatsâ milk may not be the best alternative to cowsâ milk.â

Are you taking the pus?

Most revolting though is the âsomatic cellâ content of goatsâ milk! Somatic cells, more commonly known as pus cells, are counted in milk sold for human consumption as there are legal limits as to how much it can contain. Somatic cells are the white blood cells that are the defence against bacteria that invade the udder and may cause mastitis. Cowsâ milk can legally contain up to 400 million pus cells/litre. So one teaspoonful of milk can have two million pus cells! According to UFAW, 65 per cent of goat milk samples will have a cell count greater than 1,000 million cells per litre! With goats as with cows, it is the philosophy of factory-farmed, mass production that triumphs; the same old cycle of pregnancy, removal of babies, constant milking, disease, deprivation and early death. And all for a product that may promote disease. Thank goodness for plants â soya, almonds, oat, hazelnuts, rice â and their milk of human kindness.

Reference: http://www.vegetarian.org.uk/features/display.php?pid=33


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## jennigrey (Jan 27, 2005)

Oh, brother. More lies from PETA.


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## Woolieface (Feb 17, 2015)

I don't get easily disturbed by the "experts" 

You will find there's a significant campaign against milk in general and an even more loud and obnoxious one against raw milk. Many raw milk drinkers drink goats milk because goats are easier keepers than cows and if you don't own your own milking animal, it's hard to obtain raw milk in many places. Many have also chosen raw goats milk because of the lactose intolerance factor.

Some might call me backwards, but I trust what works for people, and in my opinion, what I see being pushed as healthy/unhealthy in the latest scientific literature is hearsay. Since I have personally seen the health benefits of raw goat's milk, I can't be disturbed.

Estrogen is natural to milk, period.... but in all the long history of people drinking milk, it's never been a health issue. When Added hormones are given by big dairy producers to their animals to increase production, that is a problem.

I know no one will believe me but, animal/dairy fat is healthy fat. True story.

Healthy animals are not going to have milk full of puss, but store bought milk often does before processing. They usually spin it out before packaging.

I don't personally believe that the FDA or USDA or any other government organization or funded science has our health and best interest in mind at all.


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## Rosepath (Feb 18, 2011)

Did any of these "studies" go into what the dairy animals in question were being fed, or treated with, or shot up with? No? Hard to believe (sarcasm button).
Commercial dairy is a whole different ballgame than home dairy, but in both cases bad milk can be caused by bad management or sloppy handling. I've worked in a commercial dairy, and wouldn't want to drink that milk no matter what all pasteurizing/chlorination/treating it went through, dirty udders = gross.
My own dairy animals are not being given hormones, like commercial herds are, but if you test human milk it's going to contain hormones. Best alternative if you are scared silly by all this "research" is to drink water. Oh wait, that's not safe either.


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## Narnia75 (May 16, 2015)

Woolieface said:


> I know no one will believe me but, animal/dairy fat is healthy fat. True story.
> 
> Healthy animals are not going to have milk full of puss, but store bought milk often does before processing. They usually spin it out before packaging.


Is there a true story to share? What health effects have you seen or experienced? 

What about SCC? Is that what they are calling "pus?"


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## Agriculture (Jun 8, 2015)

It's obviously trying to promote the animal rights agenda, but being afraid of science and distrusting all government activity as a conspiracy is not the answer either. Raw milk can indeed transfer several very serious diseases, and blindly refusing to acknowledge that is just as dangerous and ignorant as the vegetarians with their scare tactics.


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## Narnia75 (May 16, 2015)

:rock:


Agriculture said:


> It's obviously trying to promote the animal rights agenda, but being afraid of science and distrusting all government activity as a conspiracy is not the answer either. Raw milk can indeed transfer several very serious diseases, and blindly refusing to acknowledge that is just as dangerous and ignorant as the vegetarians with their scare tactics.


Would you please elaborate on the diseases transferred?


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## Narnia75 (May 16, 2015)

Any thoughts about what is said in this article?

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/foodandd...28/Give-up-dairy-products-to-beat-cancer.html


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## Woolieface (Feb 17, 2015)

Narnia75 said:


> Is there a true story to share? What health effects have you seen or experienced?
> 
> What about SCC? Is that what they are calling "pus?"


Yes, I used to eat what everyone is told is a healthy diet. Whole grains, fiber, vegetable oils, etc. Eventually my digestive system was beginning to shut down. I couldn't digest anything and that was adding weight to me, as well. Me, and my family all dropped grain, high fiber and vegetble oils from our diet. replaced it with animal/dairy protein and fat and just raw vegetables and ocassional fruit as our only carbs. Not only does my digestive system work now but we all lost significant amounts of weight. In fact, I lost more than i wanted to and was unable to put it back on with dairy fat or animal fat of any kind. I resported to eating a lot of potatoes, but otherwise I feel good these days.

Yes, the SCC was the pus


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## Narnia75 (May 16, 2015)

Well, then I guess that we do get pus in our milk, no matter how much precaution we take?


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## marusempai (Sep 16, 2007)

SOMATIC CELLS ARE NOT PUS. Sorry for yelling, but that was scaremongering, pure and simple. Yes, there are somatic cells in pus. There are also somatic cells in your blood right now. All milk (including human breast milk) contains them, at all times. So no, there is not pus in your milk just because there are somatic cells. Pus in the milk is UNMISTAKABLE. You will not miss it if it ever occurs, and it is a sure sign of mastitis - healthy udders do not contain pus.

Can I say it again? Somatic cells ARE NOT pus. Ever. In any way. That's like saying that blood contains pus because it has somatic cells in it. BAH! Humbug!


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## Wonderland (May 26, 2009)

Somatic Cell Count measures the number of white blood cells in the milk, which (in unusually high numbers), may indicate mastitis. Like Maru said above, somatic cells are NOT pus. In fact, somatic cells are quite simply "any cell of a living organism other than reproductive cells." I guess we're all made of pus! &#128514;

Other than that, no comment. There's no point in taking the time to argue each point made in a clearly (VERY) biased article. Plenty of people have already done so, and you can easily find articles of the sort if you do thorough research. 

People have drank milk and made milk products for thousands of years. Cow milk, goat milk, horse milk, sheep milk. I appreciate that we now know of potential threats due to sick animals or poor sanitation, and therefore can minimize the risks, but I'll keep on drinking all the raw milk I want from good, clean sources.


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## kasilofhome (Feb 10, 2005)

Maybe, goats are not for you.


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## Narnia75 (May 16, 2015)

marusempai said:


> SOMATIC CELLS ARE NOT PUS. Sorry for yelling, but that was scaremongering, pure and simple. Yes, there are somatic cells in pus. There are also somatic cells in your blood right now. All milk (including human breast milk) contains them, at all times. So no, there is not pus in your milk just because there are somatic cells. Pus in the milk is UNMISTAKABLE. You will not miss it if it ever occurs, and it is a sure sign of mastitis - healthy udders do not contain pus.
> 
> Can I say it again? Somatic cells ARE NOT pus. Ever. In any way. That's like saying that blood contains pus because it has somatic cells in it. BAH! Humbug!


Whew!! Thank you!! What a relief!!


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## marusempai (Sep 16, 2007)

No problem.  I had a sudden moment of rage when I saw somatic cells called "pus cells." There is no such thing as a "pus cell." XD


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## Woolieface (Feb 17, 2015)

Narnia75 said:


> Well, then I guess that we do get pus in our milk, no matter how much precaution we take?


That was what the article labeled it


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## Woolieface (Feb 17, 2015)

The site is pushing a vegetarian agenda, anyway. Some of the flakiest people I have ever known were vegetarian/vegan. Got to have that b12, man.


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## 258Pots (Apr 23, 2015)

Woolieface said:


> Yes, I used to eat what everyone is told is a healthy diet. ***vegetable oils, etc.***


"vegetable" oil is a misnomer, its seed oil and it's not food.


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## Alice In TX/MO (May 10, 2002)

Over googling is dangerous.


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## Woolieface (Feb 17, 2015)

XtreemLee said:


> "vegetable" oil is a misnomer, its seed oil and it's not food.


Right, and it's seeds and seed products specifically that are particularly hard for me to digest. I can tolerate moderate amounts of olive oil.


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## Narnia75 (May 16, 2015)

Woolieface said:


> Right, and it's seeds and seed products specifically that are particularly hard for me to digest. I can tolerate moderate amounts of olive oil.


Then you must not do well with quinoa?


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## Narnia75 (May 16, 2015)

Alice In TX/MO said:


> Over googling is dangerous.


It all started with an email from women's health group re balancing hormones after menopause. I wondered if goat milk would help with that, and wound up there on the first search. 

AND, another article which stated that fat in dairy carries the estrogen, which can trigger and feed estrogen dominant cancers. That, I found to be scary, so I guess I will need to do more research. I just wondered if others on this forum may have info to refute what was written in the article cited in the OP.

The thing that is confusing, is that some articles say that goat milk heals or prevents certain cancers, while others say that it can cause estrogen-dominant cancers due to the estrogen in the milk. How to know the truth!!!

Re the butterfat carrying estrogen, I guess that means that the higher the fat content, the higher the estrogen, since they said that lowfat milk would help lessen the level of estrogen. So then, I suppose that Nigerian Dwarf milk would be higher in estrogen content than goat milk with lower butterfat content? I was seriously looking into getting some NDs, but if this is true, then I guess we should try to stick with a lower butterfat goat breed. : (


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## BohemianWaxwing (Sep 13, 2014)

Sounds like your interest in finding the healthiest food for yourself and your family is genuine, Narnia. From personal experience dealing with some non-diagnosable health issues along the lines of Woolie's and having spent countless hours trying to make sense out of completely contradictory advice and studies online, where we have finally settled is a sort of happy and easy medium of eating a wide variety of clean foods in as close to their natural state as feasible and NOT WORRYING what anyone else has to say about it.  There is a point of diminishing returns in trying to get conclusive answers on "what's best" and that's likely to vary for every person. If a particular food causes problems with your body, eat a little less of it and move on!

BTW, we very much enjoy our NDGs and their milk...


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## Woolieface (Feb 17, 2015)

Narnia75 said:


> Then you must not do well with quinoa?


No, can't eat that either. Nor peanutbutter or most tree nuts. Some lower phytic acid nuts I can tolerate small amounts of.


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## Woolieface (Feb 17, 2015)

Narnia75 said:


> It all started with an email from women's health group re balancing hormones after menopause. I wondered if goat milk would help with that, and wound up there on the first search.
> 
> AND, another article which stated that fat in dairy carries the estrogen, which can trigger and feed estrogen dominant cancers. That, I found to be scary, so I guess I will need to do more research. I just wondered if others on this forum may have info to refute what was written in the article cited in the OP.
> 
> ...


If you want to know something really adverse hormonally speaking...it's soy. The worst stuff ever to be promoted as health food. Low fat milk is not healthy either. The method of fat extraction leaves the milk in a highly acidic state. The best nutrients are contained in the raw butterfat.


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## Narnia75 (May 16, 2015)

Yes...I have known about soy for many years. 

I have done no milk or cheese for 30+ years except for the occasional ice-cream. I got started on raw milk 6 months ago. Learned about A1 vs A2 milk, then that led to goat milk and it was so expensive to buy at $10-15 per gallon and having to drive and hour and half to go buy it, so here we are...jumped into goat ownership to save money and have greater control over what we are getting in our milk......without enough research to see just how time-consuming and stressful it is to have goats! In this case, I under-googled!! : (

No one we talked with, told us about the parasites, the poop scooping, the stomping goat at milking, their delicate health that constantly needs to be monitored. She recently had bloat and got better but today, she seems draggy again and her eyelids looks a bit on the pale side. Sigh....! Another drench with Red Cell...


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## Woolieface (Feb 17, 2015)

Well don't get discouraged. Jumping into goat ownership is a big challenge. Learning what to look for if there's a problem is as much experience as it is research. It is harder work than you expect when you read about people who have been doing it for a while....but most of those people started out feeling a little overwhelmed at first too, I suspect. I know I did. It gets easier.


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## Narnia75 (May 16, 2015)

Thank you, Woolieface! We are overwhelmed! Glad to hear that it doesn't stay this way!


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## Caprice Acres (Mar 6, 2005)

Everything has hormones in it, sorry to tell you. Don't like hormones, don't eat spinach.  My understanding of IGF-1 was that you'd have to consume a lot to really make a difference. One of those, everything is bad for you if you look hard enough situations. I like dairy, I'm going to keep drinking milk.  

This article is anti dairy completely, not just anti- goats. There is truth to a lot of this - excess fat in a diet isn't good, and to the average person, there is just no need for high fat milk for regular drinking. There are hormones and IGF-1 promoters in milk. Pus is essentially debris and dead white blood cells that have died in the process of fighting an infection - and are present naturally in milk. High levels can definitely indicate an infection, because more white blood cells migrated to the site of infection. 

Lactose intolerance is not the same as a milk allergy. Lactose intolerance means you lack an enzyme to break down lactose in the milk - most species loose this ability when they wean, it is normal. Human cultures with less milk consumption have increased rates of lactose intolerance, too. (and also interestingly, lower rates of osteoperosis IIRC). A milk allergy is a true allergic reaction to proteins in milk, and it is supposedly less common with goats' milk though I've never seen the data to back that up. 

Personally, I'm one of those few here who believes raw milk to be far more dangerous than pasteurized. You can manage the safety of somethings to some degree by cleanliness and handling, but some things like TB, Listeria, and Brucella would be things you could aquire from milk from animals that are shedding that are not necessarily symptomatic yet. E. coli can also be present. We pasteurize our own milk that we drink and for our milk shares, personally. I know a lot of people drink raw that haven't died yet.


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## Wonderland (May 26, 2009)

C


Narnia75 said:


> so here we are...jumped into goat ownership to save money and have greater control over what we are getting in our milk......without enough research to see just how time-consuming and stressful it is to have goats! In this case, I under-googled!! : (
> 
> No one we talked with, told us about the parasites, the poop scooping, the stomping goat at milking, their delicate health that constantly needs to be monitored. She recently had bloat and got better but today, she seems draggy again and her eyelids looks a bit on the pale side. Sigh....! Another drench with Red Cell...


If you are having constant problems, you need to look closely at two things: 1. Your management and 2. The genetics of your goat(s).

Goats do come with a steep learning curve...most people don't research in depth upfront, and there's tons of misinformation. They are parasite prone, in part because they need to eat UP (trees, bushes, tall weeds and grass, etc), but they often have to eat down (grass). But constant reoccuring problems usually means there's an underlying cause either in management (are you rotating pastures? Supplementing minerals? Etc) or genetics. Some goats have poor parasite resistance and will be more prone to parasite overloads than others. In the same way, some goats will be generally hardier as well. Those are, in my opinion, very important traits for which to breed.

Goats really may not be for you, and that's okay.  Or you may just still be in the learning curve...also okay.


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## Narnia75 (May 16, 2015)

There has been no learning curve...it's been a straight up climb!! :huh:

We have them in a browsing pen...no pasture. We take them browsing (not grazing) after milking, morning and evening. They have minerals and baking soda. I think she got bloat from eating too much grain and kudzu...I guess kudzu is too much protein on top of the grain and the limited alfalfa hay. We scoop the poop anytime we see it...sometimes more than once a day, because I read that poop spreads parasites. 

She has not been getting kelp and selenium + E (which someone in our area has suggested). Maybe that is the missing piece of the puzzle, but it has also been extremely hot here lately. Today, it was real feel 116 with 50% humidity. At night, it gets into the 90+% humidity!! We put a fan in her shed this afternoon and removed some of the siding in the upper part of her shed for more ventilation.


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## 258Pots (Apr 23, 2015)

Woolieface said:


> I lost more than i wanted to and was unable to put it back on with dairy fat or animal fat of any kind. I resorted to eating a lot of potatoes, but otherwise I feel good these days.


Same here, I went from 320 pounds to 190 in 8 months, now I fight to maintain my weight, I need to stay over 195 and closer to 200 if possible. Potatoes, pork lard, butter, organic breads, jams and jellies, bananas all the whole raw goats milk I can drink, it's hard to keep weight and I was FAT my entire life...

I have bloodwork coming up, I am curious to what my numbers will be...


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## sammyd (Mar 11, 2007)

LOL looking to an article from vegetarian.org to have anything good to say about milk.
It is all the same regurgitated falsities that you will find on most anti animal use or anti milk sites. 
Best bet would be to ignore.


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## Laura Workman (May 10, 2002)

Narnia75 said:


> There has been no learning curve...it's been a straight up climb!! :huh:
> 
> We have them in a browsing pen...no pasture. We take them browsing (not grazing) after milking, morning and evening. They have minerals and baking soda. I think she got bloat from eating too much grain and kudzu...I guess kudzu is too much protein on top of the grain and the limited alfalfa hay. We scoop the poop anytime we see it...sometimes more than once a day, because I read that poop spreads parasites.
> 
> She has not been getting kelp and selenium + E (which someone in our area has suggested). Maybe that is the missing piece of the puzzle, but it has also been extremely hot here lately. Today, it was real feel 116 with 50% humidity. At night, it gets into the 90+% humidity!! We put a fan in her shed this afternoon and removed some of the siding in the upper part of her shed for more ventilation.


You need to get Goat Husbandry by David MacKenzie, and for goodness sake relax a little about the poop. It only spreads parasites if it gets in your food or the goats' food. Since goats won't eat from the ground unless they're forced to, poop is not likely to get into their food. Milk cleanly and use clean equipment, and it won't get into your food either. Problem solved. Provide good grass hay free choice, kept off of the ground - grass helps even things out when they get into rich forage. Also, you keep writing "she," as though you have only one goat. If that's so, that's probably the biggest part of your problem. A single goat is a stressed goat, and a stressed goat is a sick goat. Keep your goats happy, with proper feed, water, and shelter, and they'll be largely trouble-free.


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## Narnia75 (May 16, 2015)

One doe with her kid. Does she need another adult goat?


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## Doug Hodges (Jul 22, 2013)

I call BS on the article


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