# Back when government expected you to take care of yourself



## unregistered168043 (Sep 9, 2011)




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## Raymond James (Apr 15, 2013)

Similar to the WWII victory gardens . 

Currently the Whitehouse has a garden and the First Lady is vilified for it. Talking about growing your own food, eating low fat fresh vegetable diet , working in a garden for recreation and exercise and getting kids and adults up and moving is somehow a very bad thing. 

The government should not tell people what to do is the view of many. I do not know if during WWI and II if there were people that felt the government had no business telling people what to do or not. I just know we have many that feel that way today.


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## forphase1 (Aug 5, 2010)

Big difference here in my opinion. It's one thing for the government to suggest behaviors/activities that it thinks would be beneficial to its citizens. Its the difference between 'We think its a good idea for everyone to have health insurance' and 'get health insurance or pay a penalty'. Same as 'we want everyone to be safe, so wear a seat belt' versus ' wear a seat belt or get a ticket'. I have no problem with government suggesting people engage in a particular behavior. I DO have a problem with government forcing people. I wasn't alive at the time, but if I read the posted 'article' correctly, they are suggesting people raise chickens in their backyard, and even going to far as saying it may be a patriotic duty to do so. But no where did I see them compelling anyone to raise them against their wishes, or penalizing those that refuse to do so.


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## 7thswan (Nov 18, 2008)

Raymond James said:


> Similar to the WWII victory gardens .
> 
> Currently the Whitehouse has a garden and the First Lady is vilified for it. Talking about growing your own food, eating low fat fresh vegetable diet , working in a garden for recreation and exercise and getting kids and adults up and moving is somehow a very bad thing.
> 
> The government should not tell people what to do is the view of many. I do not know if during WWI and II if there were people that felt the government had no business telling people what to do or not. I just know we have many that feel that way today.


She is vilified for it because it's all for show.IF, the garden is still in the same place , it can't/shouldn't be eaten. The ground was "composted" with sewage sluge. It became a huge joke. Not to mention, would you use a trainer at a gym , that was 100 lbs overweight? Same old do as I say and not as I do. Let them eat Cake! And Yes-I don't need the gov. to TELL me what to do, I'm a big girl and can't stand them being up in my business.


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## AngieM2 (May 10, 2002)

take the specific political aspect of this out of the future posts - wrong forum for that.

But there was patriot behaviors being promoted (not required). It was the government and the people working towards an end - together; not against each other. 

And it is a nice idea to have those gardens and few animals. Even if the garden is in the front yard as some that have been in the news lately as not being what city code was thought to mean - but later found out conformed to code as it was written.


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## Usingmyrights (Jan 10, 2011)

I like that Mrs Obama is supporting gardening, but I'd like to see her actually being the one to.go out and tend to it.


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## AngieM2 (May 10, 2002)

You know - it's a shame when even gardening is politicalized.


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## unregistered168043 (Sep 9, 2011)

These days they would want the chickens registered and confiscated, people raising them could get a fine. Different world.


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## 7thswan (Nov 18, 2008)

It is a shame. But for me, it's very close to my heart and the main reason I am a homesteader and "prepper". I have mentioned here than my Mother and her family escaped a concentration camp in Russia. My G-grandparents went thru the R. Rev, they bred and trained horses for Czar Nickolious(sp) . They were very wealthy-and instantly were tossed out of their farm, G-grand pa hung , and my grandma and the rest of the family(13 kids) left on foot to forage for food. Same for my Mom's family-foraged their way to Germany. My sis and I had this need to grow and be prepaired heavly pushed on us by our Grandma, we spent much time with her. 
See, this is why it's important that we share our experiances, we each have different reasons for seeing things differently. I try to learn from others,but it sure is hard when everything I see is reminding me of what my grandparents warned me of. So, I'm sorry if I offended anyone.


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## forphase1 (Aug 5, 2010)

AngieM2 said:


> take the specific political aspect of this out of the future posts - wrong forum for that.
> 
> But there was patriot behaviors being promoted (not required). It was the government and the people working towards an end - together; not against each other.
> 
> And it is a nice idea to have those gardens and few animals. Even if the garden is in the front yard as some that have been in the news lately as not being what city code was thought to mean - but later found out conformed to code as it was written.


Sorry Angie. I just searched for 'new posts' and didn't really pay attention to what forum this was originally posted in when I commented.


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## AngieM2 (May 10, 2002)

You weren't the one that started it.

But going off the new post feature, it's good to check where you are before posting.


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## Raymond James (Apr 15, 2013)

I can remember when the government encouraged (provided instructions and perhaps some talks by county extension agents, ads on radio/TV/magazines) on how to make a shelter. For use in tornadoes and later nuclear fall out. I am sure the shelter in my home built in 1960 1/2 mile from a missile launch site was built as a result of such government encouragement. 

My point in my earlier post is that our government has for a very long time and continues to this day to encourage people (take a look at FEMA web page, Ready.Gov and CDC website) to do things for themselves and others in their community .

Yet many interpret this encouragement as being over reach and criticize. As I said even the First Lady having a garden and encouraging others to do so is a source of criticism.


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## backwoods (Sep 12, 2004)

I just "shared" this on FB before coming here...
Ahh, the good ole days, when people assumed responsibility for themselves.


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## Usingmyrights (Jan 10, 2011)

Angie - I think that politics, to an extent, are a valid topic for S&P. Some things that we may be preparing fir are based on the politics of our country. While there shouldnt be R vs D debates, decisions that our political leaders make do effect us. The economy, GMO goods, chances of foreign attack, etc. To move the topic back to the government suggesting that we have gardens, chickens, etc doesn't mean much when the person touting it is having someone else care for the said garden. The whole do as I say, not as I do thing.


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## AngieM2 (May 10, 2002)

Just make the politics the seasoning and not the main course.

BUT, that is one reason why Current Events was made. Many people do not want that political factor in the just getting ready for events.

I'd like to keep political comments for the sake of political comments out of this part.


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## Harry Chickpea (Dec 19, 2008)

Most folks in the U.S. only saw one aspect of Victory gardens. It does give a warm fuzzy feeling to be able to grow your own food and not have to be as concerned with rationing or shortages, and there is no denying that it is a great idea. However there are things to ponder-

In England and Germany, IIRC, there were state mandated crops to be grown and the state would come and take the produce to feed others. When governments get desperate, stuff like that happens. Take a look at the one line in that advertisement/PSA "every backyard should contribute its share." Carefully chosen wording, isn't it? It sets a stage for a government worker to eventually come in and say "I'm from the government. I've come to collect that share you are supposed to contribute."

Ever wonder WHY there were shortages in the U.S.? When the boys were fighting, they might have needed as much as twice the caloric intake, but weren't they being fed in the U.S. already? A lot of the shortages were because the government was taking U.S. grown food and handing it out to war refugees or using it as a type of economic currency. I don't say that it was bad, just that the bully beef many Americans were thinking was being sent to feed their fighting soldiers was not, and during wars there can be a lot of bully thrown around.


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## Usingmyrights (Jan 10, 2011)

I agree. It can be hard to refrain from making comments from time to time with some of the stuff going on in America today.


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## ralph perrello (Mar 8, 2013)

If Michelle Obama actually thinks that the American Public believes she got dirt on her hands making that garden then she is living in LA LA land.
Some WG-4 government grounds keepers did it and a nice job they did too!


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## AngieM2 (May 10, 2002)

ralph perrello said:


> If Michelle Obama actually thinks that the American Public believes she got dirt on her hands making that garden then she is living in LA LA land.
> Some WG-4 government grounds keepers did it and a nice job they did too!


An example of only political comment that is not helping this thread at all.


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## AngieM2 (May 10, 2002)

But building on that White House garden, wasn't it made to promote gardens in at home? Regardless if a G4 or the M.O. and girls did any of it?
Isn't it a modern version of the poster above? At least the gardening part.


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## mekasmom (Jan 19, 2010)

Darntootin said:


> These days they would want the chickens registered and confiscated, people raising them could get a fine. Different world.


Not only is it different, it is very sad, and a very evil world. It's too bad that we don't encourage each other any longer instead of simply trying to butt in and hurt others.


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## Patchouli (Aug 3, 2011)

7thswan said:


> She is vilified for it because it's all for show.IF, the garden is still in the same place , it can't/shouldn't be eaten. The ground was "composted" with sewage sluge. It became a huge joke. Not to mention, would you use a trainer at a gym , that was 100 lbs overweight? Same old do as I say and not as I do. Let them eat Cake! And Yes-I don't need the gov. to TELL me what to do, I'm a big girl and can't stand them being up in my business.


Half the fields in America are covered in sewage sludge. And who is 100 lbs over weight? If you are saying that about Mrs. Obama I would suggest you need glasses. 

http://www.epa.gov/agriculture/tfer...omestic Septage and Sewage Sludge (Biosolids)


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## Patchouli (Aug 3, 2011)

AngieM2 said:


> But building on that White House garden, wasn't it made to promote gardens in at home? Regardless if a G4 or the M.O. and girls did any of it?
> Isn't it a modern version of the poster above? At least the gardening part.


Yes it was. She wrote an excellent book about the garden and it includes ideas for home gardens and recipes. She did work in that garden with school children and with her children. She also promotes gardens in schools which is the only exposure some kids get to growing their own food. I would think everyone on a homesteading forum would be over the moon about ideas like that.


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## Usingmyrights (Jan 10, 2011)

To get back on track, especially since I helped get it off track. The government does allow for fruit and vegetable plants to be bought, as well as seeds, with the EBT cards. I think thats a plus for those who which to try to be more self sustaining. Unfortunately, I doubt that the local nursery, or even the big box hardware/nursery stores would take EBT. If only more people who do that instead of buying junk food. Notice that I said more, because I know that some people will buy healthy.


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## unregistered168043 (Sep 9, 2011)

I think Michelle Obama's gardening was a good thing to promote. Whether she grew it all and did it all herself is not really the point. In today's world it is refreshing to see some form ( ANY form ) of self reliance promoted by government.

It actually goes radically against the type of forced dependency and staunch collectivism usually espoused.


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## Ohio dreamer (Apr 6, 2006)

I find that "ad" fascination. In 1918 they (the Government) was suggesting we all have chickens so we would have eggs to eat. I'm betting there were similar suggestions for gardens. Here almost 100 yrs later in some places the local government has forbidden anyone to have chickens or even gardens. If you're hungry go get in line at a Government, church, non-profit, etc sponcered food line...

Interesting have in a few 100 yrs attitudes can change.


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## susieneddy (Sep 2, 2011)

Ohio dreamer said:


> I find that "ad" fascination. In 1918 they (the Government) was suggesting we all have chickens so we would have eggs to eat. I'm betting there were similar suggestions for gardens. Here almost 100 yrs later in some places the local government has forbidden anyone to have chickens or even gardens.


more and more cities are allowing chickens now. The number of chickens you can have is determined by your lot size. They do say no roosters allowed :grin:


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## Usingmyrights (Jan 10, 2011)

My county is probably 80-90% AG zoning, I'm zoned the least restrictive Rural Residental (I'm a couple miles outside the town limits of a one stop light town) and still am not supposed to have chickens. They are afraid of runoff to the lake which is the only reason I'm zoned RR and not AG.


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## DarleneJ (Jan 29, 2012)

Usingmyrights said:


> To get back on track, especially since I helped get it off track. The government does allow for fruit and vegetable plants to be bought, as well as seeds, with the EBT cards. I think thats a plus for those who which to try to be more self sustaining. Unfortunately, I doubt that the local nursery, or even the big box hardware/nursery stores would take EBT. If only more people who do that instead of buying junk food. Notice that I said more, because I know that some people will buy healthy.


There's always Walmart, Big K and other stores with seeds and fruit plants.


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## Lisa in WA (Oct 11, 2004)

susieneddy said:


> more and more cities are allowing chickens now. The number of chickens you can have is determined by your lot size. They do say no roosters allowed :grin:


My daughter just bought her first house in an urban neighborhood and she can have 4 hens according to zoning. Her husband is planning a hen house ASAP.


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## Ann-NWIowa (Sep 28, 2002)

I live in a small town on two lots. We have a big garden but are not allowed chickens. You can keep horses inside the city limits but not chickens!!!!!! I'm seriously thinking of getting a couple of hens anyway and fighting city hall if necessary. I'll have to read the Code and find out how much the fine would be and decide whether to fight before or after getting hens. I'm already unpopular with the Council due to a prior battle.


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## unregistered353870 (Jan 16, 2013)

Usingmyrights said:


> To get back on track, especially since I helped get it off track. The government does allow for fruit and vegetable plants to be bought, as well as seeds, with the EBT cards. I think thats a plus for those who which to try to be more self sustaining. Unfortunately, I doubt that the local nursery, or even the big box hardware/nursery stores would take EBT. If only more people who do that instead of buying junk food. Notice that I said more, because I know that some people will buy healthy.


Home Depot here takes EBT. I happened to notice the little sticker saying that and asked why and the cashier explained it was for garden seeds and plants but she said she had never seen or heard of anyone using it in that store.

Our farmer's market takes EBT too. At the office people can use their EBT to buy tokens which all the vendors accept and then cash in at the end of the day. Not ideal but I agree it's better than tax money paying for junk food.


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## dngrous (Sep 22, 2009)

jtbrandt said:


> Home Depot here takes EBT. I happened to notice the little sticker saying that and asked why and the cashier explained it was for garden seeds and plants but she said she had never seen or heard of anyone using it in that store.
> 
> Our farmer's market takes EBT too. At the office people can use their EBT to buy tokens which all the vendors accept and then cash in at the end of the day. Not ideal but I agree it's better than tax money paying for junk food.


Our county has a program that allows you to buy the tokens at half face value, up to $40 worth, for $20. Some of that can also be used to purchase processed foodstuffs, such as breads, honey, cheese. Not just limited to fruits and vegetables.
And yes, my wife and I utilize this program, until my new job takes off and we can get by without the help.


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## terri9630 (Mar 12, 2012)

I thought that the only problem with the veggies from the white house garden was that it couldn't be labeled "organic". Not that they weren't safe.


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## forfreedom (Dec 3, 2008)

Ann-NWIowa said:


> I live in a small town on two lots. We have a big garden but are not allowed chickens. You can keep horses inside the city limits but not chickens!!!!!! I'm seriously thinking of getting a couple of hens anyway and fighting city hall if necessary. I'll have to read the Code and find out how much the fine would be and decide whether to fight before or after getting hens. I'm already unpopular with the Council due to a prior battle.


Get Muscovy ducks, they are practically in-audible. Chickens are noisy critters.
You will have to cut the duck's wings though, or keep them penned. Better and larger eggs too.


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## PrincessFerf (Apr 25, 2008)

I am NO fan of the Obamas; however, I have absolutely no problem with Mrs. O promoting gardening. There are a lot of people who listen to her and follow their every word. If they want to promote healthy eating and self-sufficiency, that's fine with me. 

So many people today have completely lost touch with how their food is raised or grown. There is a complete ignorance around food at all levels (where it comes from, how to prepare a meal, what is good for you/what is not) I welcome any attempt to help educate others.


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## snowcap (Jul 1, 2011)

Ann-NWIowa said:


> I live in a small town on two lots. We have a big garden but are not allowed chickens. You can keep horses inside the city limits but not chickens!!!!!! I'm seriously thinking of getting a couple of hens anyway and fighting city hall if necessary. I'll have to read the Code and find out how much the fine would be and decide whether to fight before or after getting hens. I'm already unpopular with the Council due to a prior battle.


Have you thought of raising Quail? There are breeds for meat and eggs.


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## terri9630 (Mar 12, 2012)

snowcap said:


> Have you thought of raising Quail? There are breeds for meat and eggs.




Check local regs first. A lot of places, like NM, require permits and you have to allow them access to your property 24/7/365 for inspections.


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## snowcap (Jul 1, 2011)

terri9630 said:


> Check local regs first. A lot of places, like NM, require permits and you have to allow them access to your property 24/7/365 for inspections.


depends on the type of quail. Cotunix quail have no such restrictions.


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## terri9630 (Mar 12, 2012)

snowcap said:


> depends on the type of quail. Cotunix quail have no such restrictions.


They do here. Per the game warden all quail are game birds so you must have the proper permits. Thats why I mentioned that people should check their local codes.


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## stamphappy (Jul 29, 2010)

We are still in the city and are allowed 3 hens, no roosters. 

The little city 9 miles away just changed their regulations and their folks can also now have 3 hens, no roosters. Used to be none, so there is progress being made.


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