# "Tensions boil over..."



## Wags (Jun 2, 2002)

> Nerves are fraying and tensions boiling over at gas stations, home improvement stores and on streets where utility workers scramble to restore electricity as much of the Northeast entered a third day without power.
> 
> Read more: State troopers deployed as tensions boil at gas stations in Sandy&#39;s wake | Fox News


If this is how people react just a few days into a situation they had plenty of warning to be prepared for, how much quicker do you think tensions will "boil over" when a catastrophe hits without warning? 

It is also a very sobering reminder of how dependent people and the economy is on electricity. Without it neither seems to be able to function well without it. And I'm sure it would be even worse if an EMP type event occured.


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## Rainy (Jan 21, 2010)

Hubby and I were just discussing this about five minutes ago... Some resident was upset because they had to cook there frozen pizza on a grill and there food was running low... Did they think that as soon as the storm was over,everything would magically be okay overnight? Unreal... 
this part of what might happen is the part that really worried me, there is no quick fix for any of this....


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## CesumPec (May 20, 2011)

Look folks, it was just a big storm. Yeah, there are huge long lines at gas stations, no electricity, people are cold and without food and water.

Geesh, you prepper freaks sure are nuts. What could you possibly be worried about?


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## Darren (May 10, 2002)

Some people don't realize the matrix they're plugged into nor it's vulnerabiliies. There are many who automatically believe government can solve all problems. The disconnect comes when people see repeated natural disasters that show the limitations of government and infrstructure yet they continue to stay plugged in.

Government can never protect us from Mother Nature. To the extent government detracts from our ability and our communities to be self-sufficent they're building a facade of illusion. Many of us are happy to go about our lives believing in that delusion. 

Forunately people here took their blinders off.


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## Halfway (Nov 22, 2010)

When you've seen fear and greed overcome normal people, you can easily see the demonic capability of mobs.


"It can't happen here". snicker.


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## barefootboy (Sep 30, 2012)

Check out the latest on MSN caling today in NYC 'pure mayhem" reporting food and gasoline shortages and peopl now begining to protest.


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## KimTN (Jan 16, 2007)

This was just a little taste of mother nature. It was only a category 1 and look at what happened. Scientist have listed the biggest possible disasters that could happen in the USA, and a category 5 hitting New York would totally wipe them out. The info is out there. Just goes to show, how things will go if things get really bad. The sheeple are extremely stupid. I'm sitting in the middle of one of the listed disasters and you would be amazed at how many people around me won't stock anything. They got shaken up the other morning and started to panic. I told them that it was a little late to plan to do anything after the big one hits and shakes everything to the ground. Gosh....When are people going to get a clue? Rant...Rant...


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## farmrbrown (Jun 25, 2012)

Kevin Beyer, president of the Long Island Gasoline Retailers Association in Smithtown, N.Y., said customers would be even more frustrated if they considered that the gas they need is underground â it just canât be pumped.
"I have gas in the ground but no power,â Beyer said. âFor many others they're facing the opposite problem, with power but no gasoline. For the few stations that are lucky enough to have both they've got huge lines out front."


Read more: State troopers deployed as tensions boil at gas stations in Sandy's wake | Fox News





Seeing the aftermath of many storms over the years, and the frustration of finding working gas stations, wouldn't it make sense to have a standby GAS operated generator to power the pumps?
:hammer:


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## 7thswan (Nov 18, 2008)

I can just imagine how it must be. I lived off grid for many years,quite awhile back-but... The last time I lost power here, I did feel strange. Kind of a lost feeling. Now,mind you I only was going to have to wait until Dh gets home and hooks up the generator. We heat with wood,have a w.cookstove, gas stove that needs no elec ect. But it was just a strange feeling, I didn't like it that I was going to HAVE to not watch TV or read on the computer. I was going to Have to sit and Knit or Spin, but it wasen't going to be MY choice,I was going to be Forced to do something other than what I wanted to do. I know I'm very independant,it's why I'm a homesteader, but imagine how all of these people feel. Boy, that's a whole bunch of bad Energy in one area.


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## AngieM2 (May 10, 2002)

CesumPec said:


> Look folks, it was just a big storm. Yeah, there are huge long lines at gas stations, no electricity, people are cold and without food and water.
> 
> Geesh, you prepper freaks sure are nuts. What could you possibly be worried about?


:nono::hair:hammer::hammer::hammer: :shrug:


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## campfiregirl (Mar 1, 2011)

Wow- I just logged in to say everything that is being said in this thread after reading articles on my lunch hour... the entitlement fits have already begun. One guy said of waiting in line a long time for gas, "that they are doing this to us is just..." Another guy in NJ blew up a swimming pool lounger to row over to city hall and complain to the mayor that the government wasn't responding quick enough. HELLO! Your governor told you to get the heck out of Dodge VERY bluntly and you ignored him! 

We've had too many natural disasters and all the craziness that follows in the news in the last few years that should triggered a prep response from these people, but instead, a couple of bottles of Gatorade, a charged-up cell-phone and a flashlight were the extent of their preps. 

Yep, the "preppers" are suposedly the crazy ones. :umno:


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## emdeengee (Apr 20, 2010)

The level of smugness and lack of empathy is really unattractive. Of course people are going to be upset and stressed. Their lives have been turned upside down and many have lost most of what makes up their daily lives including a sense of security and normalacy. Some have lost everything they possess and even family members. 

Even people who were well prepared will be suffering post traumatic stress. I know that no matter how well set up I am I would not be happy to see my neighbours in need nor think they deserved what they got. 

And keep in mind some of the people - just by figuring the odds - were just as big preppers as anyone on this board and who says that they are doing well? Such overwhelming devastation has got to affect them even if they have lots of spam and candles. 

Perhaps some of those living in the houses that are now filled with sand or water or that were burned to the ground in that massive fire were preppers. It really would not matter much to them now if they had a basement full of canned goods and a generator. And I am sure there are a lot of preppers who live in apartments who did all they could do to be prepared - but they can't store gallons of gasoline. 

And I guess those old people living in an old folks home were just lazy for not each having a cord of wood stashed under their bed.


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## AngieM2 (May 10, 2002)

emdeengee said:


> The level of smugness and lack of empathy is really unattractive. Of course people are going to be upset and stressed. Their lives have been turned upside down and many have lost most of what makes up their daily lives including a sense of security and normalacy. Some have lost everything they possess and even family members.
> 
> Even people who were well prepared will be suffering post traumatic stress. I know that no matter how well set up I am I would not be happy to see my neighbours in need nor think they deserved what they got.
> 
> ...




And I would bet that all of the propably prepped, etc that you cite above, are not the ones moaning and complaining, but are the ones using KNOWLEDGE and making do the best they can with what they have until the infrastrucre works again.

Nice try at throwing out an attempted guilt trip.


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## cvk (Oct 30, 2006)

For me it wasn't a matter of wanting to be smug. It was more a matter of irritation that there had to be mayhem and the media just acted like it was just another day. Nothing happening here---no news---how does anybody learn if they continue to pretend that it is under control when we know it can't be under control. I, for one, want to know what the devil is going on for real and maybe I will learn something!


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## Forerunner (Mar 23, 2007)

Pizza on the grill sounds like fun to me.


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## Murramarang (Dec 18, 2011)

Losing power did not feel so bad. Losing internet was horrible!


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## Old Vet (Oct 15, 2006)

Where is Obama on this? Taking a golf game or vacationing? When Katrina came ashore you heard this almost that day and they wanted to see Bush get everything they needed to them that day. So where is Obama?


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## emdeengee (Apr 20, 2010)

I am sure that some preppers may be stoic and the ones helping but a lot of preppers seem to have based their plans on hunkering down and staying away from anyone else. Not exactly the ones who will be going out to help. I find this a very troubling aspect of the prepper culture. You can protect yourself but still help those who are less fortunate.

And guaranteed there are a lot of people who are not preppers who are just getting on with the clean up and making do with what they have. In fact you just have to watch the news to see the majority of ordinary people are not moaning and complaining (60 million affected by Sandy) but working hard on the clean up, walking to work and looking after their neighbours. They are accepting their disaster with dignity and fortitude and yes who can blame them for some moaning and complaining. 

No attempt at throwing out a guilt trip. Just pointing out that it is unattractive to be smug when you are not the ones having to deal with wading through sewage filled water in your basement or on your street not to mention that it is rather insensitive to mock people who are looking for a place to charge their cell phone. Obviously they are just wanting to text about the latest couple to be kicked off of Dancing with the Stars and not desperate to try and reach a loved one that they have not been able to contact.


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## CesumPec (May 20, 2011)

emdeengee said:


> The level of smugness and lack of empathy is really unattractive. Of course people are going to be upset and stressed.


:umno:

There is no smugness or lack of empathy here. I just think this storm is, in the overall scheme of nature, not a particularly extraordinary event. A big storm yes, it covered an huge area, but it is the kind of storm that is going to happen at least a few times in your life if you live on the east coast. The storm was just a class 1. Any hurricane, no matter how large in circumference, has the potential to do that much damage and much worse to NYC or where ever. So why not prep? Why poke fun at the preppers? Why foolishly put your faith in gov't? 

A wise man once said to me after I did something dumb, "have you experienced enough pain to learn a lesson from this?" While I wish pain on none of the storm victims, I hope at least some of them have experienced enough pain to learn a lesson.


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## Halfway (Nov 22, 2010)

I'm smug.

I go out of my way to defend those that cannot defend themselves. To feed those that have been dealt a hand they cannot overcome. To comfort those dealing with things they could not have prevented, prepared for, or overcome.

My empathy is deep thank you. Is yours?


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## silverseeds (Apr 28, 2012)

emdeengee said:


> I am sure that some preppers may be stoic and the ones helping but a lot of preppers seem to have based their plans on hunkering down and staying away from anyone else. Not exactly the ones who will be going out to help. I find this a very troubling aspect of the prepper culture. You can protect yourself but still help those who are less fortunate.


You made this up in your mind imo, probably based on the fact many preppers ALSO prep for TRUE TEOTWAWKI events in which case youd have a point. Of course in that case your point wouldnt mean much except that they are sane enough to know they cant feed everyone. 

My wife has a prepper family member in the event of a societal collapse its the last place youd want to go, and would probably be he last place you went. 

Now though? they are out there in the thick of it helping people who frankly should have known better. why? because they are able to, because all their needs are met. 

I knew a guy who did the same during katrina. (not family) Heck I did the same through 911, when two friends of mine in ohio were unable to get paid because the company that did their payroll was gone. I fed them for about a month actually.


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## 7thswan (Nov 18, 2008)

I'm not a smug sorta person, I'll tell ya what I think right up frount. First thing, I'd be the first to help folks arround me-and I'm the one everyone just thinks I'm a dumb blond,they sure don't know I'm a "prepper". We'd have a camp fire( we have 3 wood cookstoves), and be cooken up whatever could be salvaged out of neighbors refers. Kids, I don't have any,but they seen to like me an awful lot, so It would become a #1 priorty to keep their spirts up and give them something fun to do-I'm pretty crafty, we'd have a Blast. Adults, there isn't much we couldn't do if we put our heads together. Things may Feel like the end of the world, but everyone needs to prop up the other guy when they are feeling low,we'll just have to take turns.Preppers aren't any diffrent than anyone else,we're just a step ahead,there's noone here Laughing at someone in a bad way.


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## emdeengee (Apr 20, 2010)

CesumPec said:


> :umno:
> 
> There is no smugness or lack of empathy here. I just think this storm is, in the overall scheme of nature, not a particularly extraordinary event. A big storm yes, it covered an huge area, but it is the kind of storm that is going to happen at least a few times in your life if you live on the east coast. The storm was just a class 1. Any hurricane, no matter how large in circumference, has the potential to do that much damage and much worse to NYC or where ever. So why not prep? Why poke fun at the preppers? Why foolishly put your faith in gov't?
> 
> A wise man once said to me after I did something dumb, "have you experienced enough pain to learn a lesson from this?" While I wish pain on none of the storm victims, I hope at least some of them have experienced enough pain to learn a lesson.


I am not poking fun at the preppers because that would be poking fun at myself and my entire family. I wish everyone would be as prepared as we are but I know that even those who want to be prepared may not have the ability to be really prepared. And no matter how independent minded we are there will be times when the government and military will be the main support. The helicopters and trucks and people rescuing those flooded by the breaching of that berm were government and military people. Thank God they were available.

And it is foolish to think that you can be prepared for anything and everything. As I said I bet there are a lot of people who had food, water, candles and even a generator and were ready to take complete care of themselves who found themselves having to abandon their homes and will return to find them filled with water, sand or just gone. So they were prepared but obviously not for everything and are now just as without as someone who did not or could not prepare.

A few people have been on the news complaining but there are 60 million people who were affected by Sandy in some way and millions who will be affected for weeks and months.


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## emdeengee (Apr 20, 2010)

Wind in Her Hair said:


> The prepper culture?
> 
> The preppper culture is to "go to ground" - head to the cave, and lay low.
> 
> Certainly, preppers, by virtue of their focus and their determinination and their sacrifice to PREPARE are going to take care of #1 first - themselves, their homes, their families. If they don't, how can they help take of #2 and #3 and #4 - those who DID NOT prepare?


Exactly what I said. It is the prepper culture. It is not the helper culture. I know because I am a prepper. I just find it distasteful when people are so self-satisfied. I may be snug in my preparations right now but everything I planned for could be taken away in a second.


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## simi-steading (Sep 27, 2012)

The only kind of prepping you can do for something like the people in NJ and NY have gone through, is to either have a second place far away from the coast you can retreat to, or survive off what you could put in your car and carry away with your before the storm got there. IF you had the money and means.. Not everyone does.

These people, no matter how much they prepped had everything washed away. Maybe some of these people had no where to go, or couldn't afford to go anywhere, so they thought their best chance was to stay in place where they had what they knew, and hoped they could hang onto what ever was left and protect it.

Stock piling a years worth of food, fuel and a generator won't do a huge majority of these people any good. They would be running all over town trying to find what was left of their belongings.

I do think so many people expect too much out of the government after something like this happens for reasons. They are only focused on their own world as we all would be, trying to survive, so they don't see the big picture, and understand how huge the devastation is. That doesn't mean though, there aren't those people that always expect people to take care of them. There are many that have always had people do things for them, and feel they are entitled. You can't do much about them, but the ones that aren't like that, they are scared, and probably have no options other than to stay in place and wait for help...


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## CesumPec (May 20, 2011)

emdeengee said:


> I am not poking fun at the preppers because that would be poking fun at myself and my entire family. I wish everyone would be as prepared as we are but I know that even those who want to be prepared may not have the ability to be really prepared. And no matter how independent minded we are there will be times when the government and military will be the main support. The helicopters and trucks and people rescuing those flooded by the breaching of that berm were government and military people. Thank God they were available.
> 
> And it is foolish to think that you can be prepared for anything and everything. As I said I bet there are a lot of people who had food, water, candles and even a generator and were ready to take complete care of themselves who found themselves having to abandon their homes and will return to find them filled with water, sand or just gone. So they were prepared but obviously not for everything and are now just as without as someone who did not or could not prepare.
> 
> A few people have been on the news complaining but there are 60 million people who were affected by Sandy in some way and millions who will be affected for weeks and months.


I don't know what your point is. Are you sure that you're not upset to see so many people hurting and directing your anger at the nearest target? 

I think all preppers realize that paying Gieco doesn't guarantee you won't get in a wreck, but that you still need insurance. And, IMO, it is OK to be a little angry at people who drive without insurance expecting my insurance to pay all the damages if they crash into me. 

I also don't think that prepping means there will be no need for gov't in a disaster. I applaud the civilian and military responders and thank them for stepping in to make emergency repairs to things no individual prepper could fix, or to save those who in spite of the best preps still need help. If you were a prepper in that neighborhood that burned down, you lost your preps. I think we all understand that. 

But how many of those folks are taking personal responsibility for their current situation? Building a house right on the ocean is like standing on the freeway and expecting not to get run over.


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## emdeengee (Apr 20, 2010)

CesumPec said:


> I don't know what your point is. Are you sure that you're not upset to see so many people hurting and directing your anger at the nearest target?
> 
> I think all preppers realize that paying Gieco doesn't guarantee you won't get in a wreck, but that you still need insurance. And, IMO, it is OK to be a little angry at people who drive without insurance expecting my insurance to pay all the damages if they crash into me.
> 
> ...


Of course I am upset that so many are suffering. Isn't any normal person? As for directing my "anger" and comments at the nearest target. What? as if my comments were random? They were directed in response to comments made here. And because I find the attitude of some to be distasteful that makes me angry? No. Just disgusted and disappointed.

Yes, how dare people build close to the ocean and how ridiculous for hotels and amusement parks to build so close to the beaches that they service. And as for roads and bridges to these places. Well, what a waste of tax payers money.

And Staten Island residents. Serves them right for buying a house on an island. I just watchd an interview with a resident and she was prepared to take care of her family except for when the water reached to within a couple of feet of her ceiling. Her part of Staten Island was not even considered to be in danger and there were no evacuations ordered. I guess they should have been prepared to take care of themselves even in this case - by treading water until the floods receded? How dare she complain and not take full responsibility for her current situation.


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## AngieM2 (May 10, 2002)

Why didn't she make her own decision to leave? Go inland? 
I don't know, haven't seen that particular story - but many just didn't believe the warnings, and now they are suffering the consequences of their in-actions.


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## Darren (May 10, 2002)

KimTN said:


> This was just a little taste of mother nature. It was only a category 1 and look at what happened. Scientist have listed the biggest possible disasters that could happen in the USA, and a category 5 hitting New York would totally wipe them out. The info is out there. Just goes to show, how things will go if things get really bad. The sheeple are extremely stupid. I'm sitting in the middle of one of the listed disasters and you would be amazed at how many people around me won't stock anything. They got shaken up the other morning and started to panic. I told them that it was a little late to plan to do anything after the big one hits and shakes everything to the ground. Gosh....When are people going to get a clue? Rant...Rant...


I used to live near or on Long Beach Island off New Jersey. I've looked up pictures of the devastation. One news video from a Philly newscast had me incredulous. All of the homes on piling didn't seem to be damaged. Anything ground level didn't do well. Authorities are keeping people off the island and out of the subdivisions adjacent to the causeway connecting the island for safety purposes until they can find and shut off gas leaks.

I didn't see major damage other than the community of Holgate where the surge cut through the island. If Sandy had been a much higher class hurricane, the island would have been stripped clean.

As bad as it was, it could have been much, much worse. I'm not belittling peoples' losses. Hopefully this was a wake up call.


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## emdeengee (Apr 20, 2010)

AngieM2 said:


> Why didn't she make her own decision to leave? Go inland?
> I don't know, haven't seen that particular story - but many just didn't believe the warnings, and now they are suffering the consequences of their in-actions.


Because there was no reason to. This was not considered an area that was under threat. Surprise. No one can predict anything with true accuracy about a natural occurance. Evacuations are based on probablilites.

I had no reason to believe we needed to evacuate when it was our turn to be faced with a natural disaster because we were just too far away - but then the wind changed and increased and the fire jumped and suddenly it was an urgent need.

As for suffering the consequence of inaction. This woman and all the others could not have moved their houses out of the way so just what was their "inaction"? How were they irresponsible?


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## barefootboy (Sep 30, 2012)

I spent years squeezing out money where I could, building on the cheap to prepare my family for this type of event. I kept quiet about it, because I knew people would think I was a nutcake for prepping. As I have tried to make clear, no one can ever be sure they will survive the intial effects of an event, but once they have, their prepping will help them take care of themselves and their loved ones, so they will *NOT* draw on resources meant for those who could *NOT* prep. Then, with their base secure they can branch out around their neighborhood, doing what they can to help, if that is how they are led. I know I am.
Every prepping plan should include a bug out option. Not everyone can prep or bug out. We can try to do what we can to help, but in every event their are going to be losses.
I do NOT consider myself smug. But I have warned people for years to be ready for a disruption of any type. I showed them that for the cost of 3 large pizzas they could prep for the 72 hrs FEMA and the Red Cross was telling them to. It all fell on deaf ears.
So then, am I smug because I used the forthought to buy an umbrella when it might rain instead of a week's worth of lattes? Am I supposed to feel sorry for the ones who could have taken the steps, but chose not to? *YOU MAKE CHOICES*
I gave up my job and salary to move out of the big city , where I had much less chance of surviving an event, to this place on the mountain where I have a higher chance. Could I be one caught in this? Yes, very easily. As a disabled vet, I went to the VA hospital in Manhatten for treatment. I could have been there now and all my prepping would not have helped me, but the *knowledge and will* still could. Plus it still might have given my wife back here a fighting chance.
NO where in these discussions have I seen anyone talk of rejecting anyone else, but I have seen plenty of talk about helping the local community . That "I'm all right , the blazes with you all" prepper image goes back to the old fallout shelter days and is just as phoney of a stereotype. As my brother, who is as much of a prepper as I am, put it well "No man is an island."
I wish we all could have a link in place with our neighbors before an event, but too many of us would get tarred with the "milita/camo commando" brush if we tried to bring up the subject.
I'm sorry if you formed that opinion of people on here, but I believe you are quite mistaken.


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## Pops2 (Jan 27, 2003)

emdeengee said:


> Because there was no reason to. This was not considered an area that was under threat. Surprise. No one can predict anything with true accuracy about a natural occurance. Evacuations are based on probablilites.
> 
> I had no reason to believe we needed to evacuate when it was our turn to be faced with a natural disaster because we were just too far away - but then the wind changed and increased and the fire jumped and suddenly it was an urgent need.
> 
> As for suffering the consequence of inaction. This woman and all the others could not have moved their houses out of the way so just what was their "inaction"? How were they irresponsible?


having lived on the east coast in tidewater regions several times for a total of about 15 years, i'm calling BS. if you're anywhere in the coastal plain during a hurricane you are at risk. if she didn't know that, she wasn't a very motivated prepper. and she made the crucial mistake of depending on someone else's opinion of the risk rather than evaluating it herself. i'm sympathetic but i'm not as sympathetic as i would be if she had been on a hilltop in a piedmont portion of the state.


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## Sonshine (Jul 27, 2007)

Wags said:


> If this is how people react just a few days into a situation they had plenty of warning to be prepared for, how much quicker do you think tensions will "boil over" when a catastrophe hits without warning?
> 
> It is also a very sobering reminder of how dependent people and the economy is on electricity. Without it neither seems to be able to function well without it. And I'm sure it would be even worse if an EMP type event occured.


Wasn't it at about the same three day mark that tensions boiled over after Katrina?


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## unregistered168043 (Sep 9, 2011)

emdeengee said:


> Because there was no reason to. This was not considered an area that was under threat. Surprise. No one can predict anything with true accuracy about a natural occurance. Evacuations are based on probablilites.
> 
> I had no reason to believe we needed to evacuate when it was our turn to be faced with a natural disaster because we were just too far away - but then the wind changed and increased and the fire jumped and suddenly it was an urgent need.
> 
> As for suffering the consequence of inaction. This woman and all the others could not have moved their houses out of the way so just what was their "inaction"? How were they irresponsible?


Thats a terrible situation and of course I dont blame people for living near the water or say it's their fault. The thing that gets me is when they complain and blame the government. Who's fault is it though? The government has done everything in it's power to make everyone dependent on it and take away people's independence. Now that there is a crisis, SURPRISE, who does everyone look to?


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## Sonshine (Jul 27, 2007)

AngieM2 said:


> And I would bet that all of the propably prepped, etc that you cite above, are not the ones moaning and complaining, but are the ones using KNOWLEDGE and making do the best they can with what they have until the infrastrucre works again.
> 
> Nice try at throwing out an attempted guilt trip.


I seriously doubt that the preppers are sitting around waiting for the government to come take care of them.


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## unregistered168043 (Sep 9, 2011)

Pops2 said:


> *having lived on the east coast in tidewater regions several times for a total of about 15 years, i'm calling BS. *if you're anywhere in the coastal plain during a hurricane you are at risk. if she didn't know that, she wasn't a very motivated prepper. and she made the crucial mistake of depending on someone else's opinion of the risk rather than evaluating it herself. i'm sympathetic but i'm not as sympathetic as i would be if she had been on a hilltop in a piedmont portion of the state.


*I'M* calling BS if you expect that the average person is capable evaluating hurricane risk. Get real.


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## emdeengee (Apr 20, 2010)

barefootboy said:


> I spent years squeezing out money where I could, building on the cheap to prepare my family for this type of event. I kept quiet about it, because I knew people would think I was a nutcake for prepping. As I have tried to make clear, no one can ever be sure they will survive the intial effects of an event, but once they have, their prepping will help them take care of themselves and their loved ones, so they will *NOT* draw on resources meant for those who could *NOT* prep. Then, with their base secure they can branch out around their neighborhood, doing what they can to help, if that is how they are led. I know I am.
> Every prepping plan should include a bug out option. Not everyone can prep or bug out. We can try to do what we can to help, but in every event their are going to be losses.
> I do NOT consider myself smug. But I have warned people for years to be ready for a disruption of any type. I showed them that for the cost of 3 large pizzas they could prep for the 72 hrs FEMA and the Red Cross was telling them to. It all fell on deaf ears.
> So then, am I smug because I used the forthought to buy an umbrella when it might rain instead of a week's worth of lattes? Am I supposed to feel sorry for the ones who could have taken the steps, but chose not to? *YOU MAKE CHOICES*
> ...


If your preps stay intact you will be able to draw on them. If not you will be in the same situation as if you had not prepped. In a serious situation and after the initial event it is not the first few days that are dangerous. It gets progressively more dangerous with each passing day as supplies run low. This is hardly the time when a prepper is going to branch out to help others because this is when the real insecurity begins. 

And actually you are being smug and falling into sterotypes yourself because what makes you think that everyone can afford 3 large pizzas and thus would even have the funds that they could be putting into canned beans - if only they would give up the luxuries and weren't so negligent. Even smugger -they are not buying an umbrella because they are spending all their money on lattes? Really? - perhaps they have to buy oxygen cylinders for their mother? 

You have chosen to move to the country. If every one did the same you would not be happy with all your new neighbours. People live in cities and towns and are just as concerned for their families and as responsible as you or other country preppers are. They may not get everything right but they sure don't deserve the contempt that is so blatantly heaped on them. Hahaha how foolish to want to charge your cell phone. 

Yes there are people living in the city who are irresponsible and will be in a mess but these people live in the country as well.


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## CesumPec (May 20, 2011)

emdeengee said:


> Of course I am upset that so many are suffering. Isn't any normal person? As for directing my "anger" and comments at the nearest target. What? as if my comments were random? They were directed in response to comments made here. And because I find the attitude of some to be distasteful that makes me angry? No. Just disgusted and disappointed.
> 
> Yes, how dare people build close to the ocean and how ridiculous for hotels and amusement parks to build so close to the beaches that they service. And as for roads and bridges to these places. Well, what a waste of tax payers money.
> 
> And Staten Island residents. Serves them right for buying a house on an island. I just watchd an interview with a resident and she was prepared to take care of her family except for when the water reached to within a couple of feet of her ceiling. Her part of Staten Island was not even considered to be in danger and there were no evacuations ordered. I guess they should have been prepared to take care of themselves even in this case - by treading water until the floods receded? How dare she complain and not take full responsibility for her current situation.


OK, perhaps you can direct me to what comments you find smug? I'm not going to reread the whole thread, but what I have taken away is that most here think 1. prepping good, 2. depending on gov't bad. 

I've missed where people were glad others were suffering, or upset the gov't was helping. If you find it smug that some are of us take a little pride that we have at least tried to be prepared, that is your choice to call it smug, but that wouldn't fit my definition of smug.

As to the advisability of building by the ocean, yeah, I know people will do it. My mother did it. She also built the house out of concrete and she still evaks prior to a dangerous storm because she knows if there is a catastrophe, even if her house is safe, the neighborhood might not be. 

As to taking responsibility, I was taught that I am responsible for everything that happens by me, because of me, or to me. I am supposed to take responsibility for sitting at a traffic light and getting rear ended by a drunk driver, yet I know others would argue otherwise. But if I take responsibility for that, I can at least change what happens after, I can change how I prepare and react only when I recognize I'm responsible.


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## Sonshine (Jul 27, 2007)

Darntootin said:


> *I'M* calling BS if you expect that the average person is capable evaluating hurricane risk. Get real.


We've been hearing about this storm for over a week before it hit. Hurricanes aren't a surprise, we have plenty of advance warning they are coming. They had to have known that there was a chance that they would be affected, especially if they lived on the water. BTW, I have lived in NH, NJ and FL, so I have some experience.


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## 7thswan (Nov 18, 2008)

Darntootin said:


> *I'M* calling BS if you expect that the average person is capable evaluating hurricane risk. Get real.


Last I heard, these things called TVs and Radio are all over the place.


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## CesumPec (May 20, 2011)

Darntootin said:


> *I'M* calling BS if you expect that the average person is capable evaluating hurricane risk. Get real.


I'm calling BS if you expect anyone did not know a really big scary storm was coming and they didn't know they lived near the ocean. I might not be able to eval a hurricane to know if it is class 1 or 5, but I can turn on the weather channel, read the internet, listen to a radio, watch TV, heck, this was such a slow moving storm I could have read about it in a newspaper and gotten enough warning to do something other than sit and wait.

Katrina should have taught us all that man made contraptions can fail when major storms hit. I would not have left my fam anywhere near the beach.


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## Becka03 (Mar 29, 2009)

my heart just aches thinking of the children who have no say in how they are taken care of and now are suffering due to the storm/poor planning/not knowing the direction of the storm/ how bad it would get- whatever- ughhhh- I hate thinking that I might be the cause of my children's sadness and pain- if I were not prepared- we lived in a area in PA where we were getting alot of warnings and be prepared - we were ready for 7-10 days without power- sure my kids would have gotten bored when the electronics were not charged- but I had food,water,heat and shelter to keep them- and books and games and we were ready- by the 4th or 5th day- yea- we would have been irritated but- I know they would have had nutritious food and water and been warm... and somewhat entertained- as a parent to think that I wasn't prepped is just heartbreaking to me


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## unregistered168043 (Sep 9, 2011)

Sonshine said:


> We've been hearing about this storm for over a week before it hit. Hurricanes aren't a surprise, we have plenty of advance warning they are coming. They had to have known that there was a chance that they would be affected, especially if they lived on the water. * BTW, I have lived in NH, NJ and FL, so I have some experience*.


I've lived ON STATEN ISLAND, where the woman in question was. Its a big place. Most people who live there do not live 'on the water'. The area in question was not one marked for evacuation. Many areas are fairly 'in land'. People don't evacuate the entire island anytime there is a hurricane or storm warning.


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## Forerunner (Mar 23, 2007)

I'm calling handbags at dawn.

Be there, or be square.


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## unregistered65598 (Oct 4, 2010)

emdeengee said:


> Of course I am upset that so many are suffering. Isn't any normal person? As for directing my "anger" and comments at the nearest target. What? as if my comments were random? They were directed in response to comments made here. And because I find the attitude of some to be distasteful that makes me angry? No. Just disgusted and disappointed.
> 
> Yes, how dare people build close to the ocean and how ridiculous for hotels and amusement parks to build so close to the beaches that they service. And as for roads and bridges to these places. Well, what a waste of tax payers money.
> 
> *And Staten Island residents. Serves them right for buying a house on an island. I just watchd an interview with a resident and she was prepared to take care of her family except for when the water reached to within a couple of feet of her ceiling. Her part of Staten Island was not even considered to be in danger and there were no evacuations ordered. I guess they should have been prepared to take care of themselves even in this case - by treading water until the floods receded? How dare she complain and not take full responsibility for her current situation.*


Apparently you did not read this thread. Let me enlighten you, there were evacuation orders for Staten Island....

http://www.homesteadingtoday.com/sp...edness/462792-ignoring-evacuation-orders.html


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## unregistered168043 (Sep 9, 2011)

CesumPec said:


> I'm calling BS if you expect anyone did not know a really big scary storm was coming and they didn't know they lived near the ocean. I might not be able to eval a hurricane to know if it is class 1 or 5, but I can turn on the weather channel, read the internet, listen to a radio, watch TV, heck, this was such a slow moving storm I could have read about it in a newspaper and gotten enough warning to do something other than sit and wait.
> 
> Katrina should have taught us all that man made contraptions can fail when major storms hit. I would not have left my fam anywhere near the beach.


So everytime there is a hurricane or storm you think they should evacuate all of staten island? A half million people? The original poster already said that the area the woman was in was not marked for evacuation.

Have you ever even been on Staten Island?


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## unregistered168043 (Sep 9, 2011)

Merks said:


> Apparently you did not read this thread. Let me enlighten you, there were evacuation orders for Staten Island....
> 
> http://www.homesteadingtoday.com/sp...edness/462792-ignoring-evacuation-orders.html


Is it hilarious when someone so misguided tries to be smug? I happen to have lived many years on Staten Island. I have family and friends there, so let *ME* enlighten *YOU*. Most of Staten Island was not ordered for evacuation, SI is a very big place. Eemdeengee's post clearly states that the woman was from a part of SI that was NOT ordered to evacuate...as most of my friends and family were not ordered to evacuate and suffered no damage from the hurricane. AGAIN SI is a big place, you can be inland, you can be on high ground, there are many many hills including tote hill, grimes hill, richmond hill, light house hill, etc,etc

The north shore is higher and larger than the south shore, and most places in land were not effected too badly by the hurricane. If you and others are suggesting that every resident of SI should have evacuated you dont know what you are talking about. There's 500, 000 people on that Island and its 60 square miles.


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## barefootboy (Sep 30, 2012)

*emdeemgee*
First off, you are not a prepper. What you are , I do not know or care. But you are not a prepper. You come on here tryng to sound like one, but you are not.
I call upon those of us here to continue our discussion on this or any other subject in the positive way we have, sharing ideas on how to help each other prep, and not be baited by this individual's inflammitory words.
You, of course, can ramble on trying to get a rise out of us, but it will not work. Spare yourself the time and go find some other place to play. But if not, feel free to display your ramblings. We will do what probably everyone else has done to you, and ignore you.


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## emdeengee (Apr 20, 2010)

barefootboy said:


> *emdeemgee*
> First off, you are not a prepper. What you are , I do not know or care. But you are not a prepper. You come on here tryng to sound like one, but you are not.
> I call upon those of us here to continue our discussion on this or any other subject in the positive way we have, sharing ideas on how to help each other prep, and not be baited by this individual's inflammitory words.
> You, of course, can ramble on trying to get a rise out of us, but it will not work. Spare yourself the time and go find some other place to play. But if not, feel free to display your ramblings. We will do what probably everyone else has done to you, and ignore you.


How silly and bombastic.


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## barefootboy (Sep 30, 2012)

Now back to the subject, which is how will the people of NYC react if the situation there continues to deteriorate, and will it?
History has shown us examples of events in major cities such as the San Francisco earthquake of 1906, but we are dealing with an event affecting a massive population center operating on a much higher level of technology, and much more dependent on an interstructure for resupply of food, fuel etc, and for support by way of power.
Yes, the news will focus on isolated noisy individuals and the occasional incident, but by and large, will most of the population of the affected area quietly deal with the situation and help each other out?
The humanist in me wants to believe in the people. But the practicalist in me knows that desperate people in desperate situations will turn to desperate solutions for desperate problems.
Yet there are so many examples in history of horrific situations, yet people pulled together and not apart, even when the system they were under was not a good one, such as Hamburg and Dresden , German cities that went through the firestorms in WWII while they were under the Nazi's. I would refer to Hiroshima, but the Japanese have a totally different mind set on the idea of unity in disaster.
For the moment, we may need to set aside the argument on prepping or not prepping and look at the situation that does exist, and weigh whether a communtiy like NYC in general or the seperate areas , such as Staten Island will pull together or apart.


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## Old Vet (Oct 15, 2006)

You can prep for anything but sooner or later you will need to be rescued with nothing but what you are wearing. Of course you can salvage some stuff later but at the time you are rescued all you will have is what you are wearing and much less than what you should wear in public. I have rescued people in tornado, floods, and the like. Every one of them had nothing but what they were wearing. So stating that you can take care of your self is foolish. There are things you can do that will help but not everything can be prepared for. It is easy to say things about hurricanes when you live in CO, or floods when you live on top of a mountain, or tornadoes when you live in an area that doesn't have many. 
Listen to this " Everybody should think of a time when you need to be rescued. Because everybody may need to be rescued at some time in their life."
Not one of the people that I rescued thought they would ever have to be rescued.


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## unregistered65598 (Oct 4, 2010)

Old Vet said:


> You can prep for anything but sooner or later you will need to be rescued with nothing but what you are wearing. Of course you can salvage some stuff later but at the time you are rescued all you will have is what you are wearing and much less than what you should wear in public. I have rescued people in tornado, floods, and the like. Every one of them had nothing but what they were wearing. So stating that you can take care of your self is foolish. There are things you can do that will help but not everything can be prepared for. It is easy to say things about hurricanes when you live in CO, or floods when you live on top of a mountain, or tornadoes when you live in an area that doesn't have many.
> Listen to this " Everybody should think of a time when you need to be rescued. Because everybody may need to be rescued at some time in their life."
> Not one of the people that I rescued thought they would ever have to be rescued.


I have lived through hurricans, typhoons, earthquakes and tornados and that was all before I was prepping. Never once did I or my family need to be resuced. We did what we could with what we had and didn't complain that the goverment was not helping us. We knew getting gas, food and water was going to be a struggle, so no sense complaining about what is reality. Complaining about something you can not change once you are in that situation does nobody any good. So some of the people were not given evac. orders, what does all of their complianing going to do? How is it going to fix anything....News...It's not. Sorry but at some point you will need to buck up and deal with what you have been delt.


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## emdeengee (Apr 20, 2010)

barefootboy said:


> Now back to the subject, which is how will the people of NYC react if the situation there continues to deteriorate, and will it?
> History has shown us examples of events in major cities such as the San Francisco earthquake of 1906, but we are dealing with an event affecting a massive population center operating on a much higher level of technology, and much more dependent on an interstructure for resupply of food, fuel etc, and for support by way of power.
> Yes, the news will focus on isolated noisy individuals and the occasional incident, but by and large, will most of the population of the affected area quietly deal with the situation and help each other out?
> The humanist in me wants to believe in the people. But the practicalist in me knows that desperate people in desperate situations will turn to desperate solutions for desperate problems.
> ...


Sounds to me like someone is desperate to play Jericho. 

New York is not in a war situation. It is not under attack. Supply lines are open and running to the edge of the disaster areas. 

Half the city has electricity and buses are running. The stock exchange is open, people are going back to work and the Marathon is still going to run. All the airports are open with planes landing and taking off. 

The Staten Island ferry will be running tomorrow, undoubtably carrying supplies and equipment and removing those who want to leave. The National Guard is there helping and vital personnel are being brought in from all over the country to help with repairs to the downed systems. 145 Canadian electrical workers are headed to New York and New Jersey to help so the world knows what has happened and is helping.

The people who are in the disaster areas will be sad and angry and cold and hungry and without water and electricity but they are not alone and not abandoned to their own devices. 

Any who want to leave will be helped to do so and housing will be provided. I doubt we will hear of any cannibalism although the looting has already started. They will suffer their loses for many weeks even months to come but they will rebuild.

They are already pulling together. Have been right from before the storm even hit. Three hospitals were evacuated. The patients aren't sleeping on the street.


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## scooter (Mar 31, 2008)

This has nothing to do with smugness, what seems to be lacking in so many people is common sense. I don't know if it's because they've been lolled into a false security from the government or thinking it happens elsewhere and can never happen to them.


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## barefootboy (Sep 30, 2012)

I know my life and what I have lived through. And I have learned that while prepping, like anything else, will not give you a 100% iron clad guarantee of surviving any and all situations, not prepping will drop your odds of surviving a number of situations. The person in the center of Staten Island with 2 wks of non perishable food, water and thermoblankets is going to get through this a lot better than the person next door who spent his money on booze and cigarrettes. If that person feels they can share with the other guy next door, more power to him. And I can understand the person who could not prep due to age, sickness, etc, but spare me the poverty excuse. You can clean and refill 2 Lt. soda bottles and put them in a closet. A thermo blanket costs $3.50 or so depending where you get one. Got to a dollar store and see the canned food items they have.
In fact,let's set the scenario. You are in the middle of Staten Island, above the water, but cut off, no power, heat , light. The odds are it's going to take at least a week to restore things. What would you have needed to get through and how much or little would they have cost you? I say it wouldn't cost you more that 2 cartons of cigarrettes.
The floor is open for imput


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## TNHermit (Jul 14, 2005)

Old Vet said:


> You can prep for anything but sooner or later you will need to be rescued with nothing but what you are wearing. Of course you can salvage some stuff later but at the time you are rescued all you will have is what you are wearing and much less than what you should wear in public. I have rescued people in tornado, floods, and the like. Every one of them had nothing but what they were wearing. So stating that you can take care of your self is foolish. There are things you can do that will help but not everything can be prepared for. It is easy to say things about hurricanes when you live in CO, or floods when you live on top of a mountain, or tornadoes when you live in an area that doesn't have many.
> Listen to this " Everybody should think of a time when you need to be rescued. Because everybody may need to be rescued at some time in their life."
> Not one of the people that I rescued thought they would ever have to be rescued.


I don't know what part of Colorado you live in but when i could afford to live there in Leadville 80-100 mph winds were not uncommon a regular basis. And nobody made a big deal about it. And when there was 6 -8 ft of snow and 20 -30 below nobody worried about us. And that could e day son end not just for a few hours.


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## Pops2 (Jan 27, 2003)

Darntootin said:


> *I'M* calling BS if you expect that the average person is capable evaluating hurricane risk. Get real.


it's not that hard really, mention hurricanes to the locals & they will tell you about the worst one in memory and anything worse than that that they have heard about. at that point you should realize that NO PLACE in the coastal plain is 100% safe from a hurricane. then if you know you're an unprepared goober, you need to bug out for every hurricane. and when i lived in VA beach & coastal NC there were people who did just that.


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## barefootboy (Sep 30, 2012)

I think we can see now what this is all about
Preppers are evil because they take care of themselves. You must let big nanny goverment come in with their National Guard to save you. And give it a few more days and it will all be fine, and they will be running the marathon.
Ah yes, supply lines running to the city. What is the population of Staten Island? How many days of food do they have left? How much food per day does it take to basicly feed them. What does it take to get it there? At 60K people and 1 MRE per day , it's still 5k cases. and this is NOT counting Hoboken, or any other area that is in the same need of resupply. But it's OK, the lights are back on in Times Square, the Broadway shows are back and Wall street is operating. Nothing like the right priorities. You want to see what it takes to supply an urban area, try studying the Berlin airlift, among any other number of examples. But then, why confuse the issue with facts. 
It's going to be very simple. It's been 72 hrs since landfall. Supplies of everything from fuel to medicine are running out. It's now a race against time. Will our heroic band of various government agencies save the day and the people? Or will the cold , hungry people get royally upset that the city cares more for the profit from a marathon or their broadway plays than it does geting them help and start venting their anger? I've already heard that there is talk of seperating Staten Island from NYC and going on it's own if help is not forthcoming, or of preventing the marathon from starting on the Island.
Tomorrow is Friday, let's see how things are come Monday morning.


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## unregistered65598 (Oct 4, 2010)

TNHermit said:


> I don't know what part of Colorado you live in but when i could afford to live there in Leadville 80-100 mph winds were not uncommon a regular basis. And nobody made a big deal about it. And when there was 6 -8 ft of snow and 20 -30 below nobody worried about us. And that could e day son end not just for a few hours.


TN He was refering to a reply that I had made to him on page 1. Leadville is one of the coldest places in CO. I would not want to live there. We also get 
-20 degrees here for a month or more at a time some winters. We do just fine. Our newest prep was a kozy heater, so if power ever goes out in the winter we will not freeze. I think the major frustration with most of us is those not thinking ahead, wether it's food and water or just getting out of harms way. Maybe they weren't TOLD they should evac. But they have a mind of thier own, Maybe they should have used it knowing this storm was bearing down so close to home. There are others here posting about how they were getting ready for the storm even though there was a very remote chance that they would suffer from it. Yet they made sure they were ready just incase. I guess I see it this way, if theres a 50% chance that you could be affected then I think you should act on it so that others don't need to act on your behalf and rescue you.


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## TNHermit (Jul 14, 2005)

Merks said:


> TN He was refering to a reply that I had made to him on page 1. Leadville is one of the coldest places in CO. I would not want to live there. We also get
> -20 degrees here for a month or more at a time some winters. We do just fine. Our newest prep was a kozy heater, so if power ever goes out in the winter we will not freeze. I think the major frustration with most of us is those not thinking ahead, wether it's food and water or just getting out of harms way. Maybe they weren't TOLD they should evac. But they have a mind of thier own, Maybe they should have used it knowing this storm was bearing down so close to home. There are others here posting about how they were getting ready for the storm even though there was a very remote chance that they would suffer from it. Yet they made sure they were ready just incase. I guess I see it this way, if theres a 50% chance that you could be affected then I think you should act on it so that others don't need to act on your behalf and rescue you.


WE use to go around in Tshirts and cutoffs when it was 40 LOL Sometimes the heat in Tn just kills me though.

Anyway what blows me away is that it was just a year ago that they had Irene. SO they had a warning and a taste of what could come. So its kinda hard to feel sorry for anybody save those incapable.

And I think the MSM is trying to put a positive spin on what is real up there for someones sake. The healer of weather . When I look through the news and see the pics something doesn't add up. Lot of politics in reporting on this. 

Will be interesting to see how it all plays out


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## KimTN (Jan 16, 2007)

Being prepared means assessing your potential dangers. If you live at or below sea level and you have a hurricane moving towards you, you know that you will have to bug out. You obviously can not bug in when you live in a dangerous area. Even if you own a fortress, you have to keep in mind that you may have to bug out if the area becomes dangerous. Weather you want to store up a years worth of food totally depends on if you are in a safe location or not. 

I always tell people in a city to have at least a months worth of food and as much water as they can store just in case they get to stay. The most important thing for them to have is bug out bags for every family member. They can easily toss most of their food and water in the car as they bug out. If you are in a heavily populated area, you may not get to stay. Fires get started very easily and the fire departments may not be able to even fight them. Also very important is to have a place to go before you have to bug out. Make arrangements with friends or relatives ahead of time. Having a plan is more important than anything.

Of course all your prepping could fail, but if you make plan A, B, C, and D, you most likely will have something work out. I'm not trying to be smug. It's just the frustration of trying to get people to think for themselves and be a little more independent. I always tell people to plan as if no one is coming to help them. I actually have friends that say ;"oh well, I'll just die then". That is so stupid.

It really makes me crazy to hear people complain that someone hasn't rescued them yet, when they should be figuring out how to rescue themselves. It's not like the people on the East coast didn't have plenty of warning. As to weather they were told to evacuate or not, I wouldn't let government officials decide that for me. Also, if the area around you is messed up, common sense will tell you that supplies probably won't be here for a few days or maybe more. People need to stop waiting to see what the government is going to tell them. I hope this incident wakes people up. We need to get back to that old pioneer type attitude.

I do feel bad for the people who lost their homes. I hope they all prepped and bought insurance.


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## TripleD (Feb 12, 2011)

I just had to add my 2 cents on this. I've worked thru most of the major storms on the east coast for the last 20yrs. The more dense the population is the worse it gets ! The response will be toooo slow for the citizens to accept and things will come to a boiling point if they dont see help quickly. Katrina got bad so fast I left my BIL there with my equipment and told him I'm heading home !! He and the hired guys were about 5 days behind me getting home.


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## barefootboy (Sep 30, 2012)

Looks like I was way too conservative with my figuire. I checked and the population of Staten Island was listed as 438,730. Allowing for any stores that might have food, and any brought in, plus what the people not in flooded areas have in way of non perishables, you are still probably talking about 120K people needing food by Monday at the latest. that's close to 10k cases of MRE's for one meal. At a hundred per army truck, you are talking 1k trucks. That's one meal per person, at 120k or about 25% of the population. Anyone besides me see a problem here?? That's not counting the water needed just to drink. Then there is sanitation. And prepping to take care of yourself so as not to be a burden is evil.


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## Sanza (Sep 8, 2008)

............


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## kasilofhome (Feb 10, 2005)

BFB

As an outplaced New Yorker, Having loads of NYC time in I feel that that the mind thought is safety in Numbers both that there are a lot of Nice people they know and that there are so many other people to be a victim that they themselves are safe.

You are right that prepping esp with SO SO much warning is a total lack of personal responsibility. Lack of personal responsibility does not negate that simple fact that it is a sad event. Water should have been stored and shelf stable food needing little more than a can opener. Eat from the can with a disposable fork or spoon. Blankets and gloves for warmth.

Next if you are fine stay out of the way of those lining up for help. Sorta like do not drive by to see that fire and simply be in the way. Having a radio with more than just an emergency station (guess who got just an emergency weather channel radio --the blonde) Having Local news allows you to learn if and when You can be a help and not a problem in leaving you cave. Gawkers do not good deeds. It would be nice in times like this to supend normal radio shows to have a call in line to spread info far and wide. Say you needed insulin call in and ask and maybe someone listening might have the item and get it past on to a person in need. People have to get prepared for life.


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## LonelyNorthwind (Mar 6, 2010)

It's so sad people are so dependent on electric power and gas when a couple Alladin lamps will give the light of two 70-watt bulbs and provide a little heat too. A nice down blankie, food & drink for a least a month, a few good books to read while you wait out the storm and effects shouldn't be that hard.


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## CesumPec (May 20, 2011)

Darntootin said:


> So everytime there is a hurricane or storm you think they should evacuate all of staten island? A half million people? The original poster already said that the area the woman was in was not marked for evacuation.
> 
> Have you ever even been on Staten Island?


and do you think no one should prepare for anything and depend on the gov't to do everything? 

See, when someone exaggerates your position to the point of absurdity, it doesn't really advance the conversation in a meaningful way.


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## CesumPec (May 20, 2011)

Old Vet said:


> You can prep for anything but sooner or later you will need to be rescued with nothing but what you are wearing.


Really? I can believe it might happen, and I don't have a crystal ball to show me that it will definitely not happen, but I have never known one person who had to be rescued with nothing but the clothes on their back. We are gong to need lots more helicopters and ambulances if 300+ million people are going to need rescuing. 

But even if we accept that you re right, that we all will need a rescue one day, so what? What do we take away from that? That we shouldn't prep? That we shouldn't watch the news and be ready to make responsible decisions for our families?


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## CesumPec (May 20, 2011)

emdeemgee - I'm still waiting for you to tell me what exactly you objected to. What were the comments you rated as smug? Maybe I really missed something by someone else or didn't state something properly myself. Or were you just venting your frustrations for no good reason?


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## kasilofhome (Feb 10, 2005)

Grammascabin

I was a wee bit worried bout you in case of "high" water --if you had to how fast can you get high and dry. --Should it come to it and we were here if you needed to and can contact me.


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

> I have never known one person who had to be *rescued with nothing but the clothes on their back. *


I happened to be there when one such person was rescued during Hurricane Floyd.

He had been alone in a house trailer with 5 ft of water inside for *3 days* before a boat got to him, and when they got him up to land, he literally got out of the boat and got on his knees to kiss the ground


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## ChristieAcres (Apr 11, 2009)

I sat down and figured out how long it would take to pack our travel trailer, if we ever had to bug out in it. No rush? Just a few hours, and we could easily haul six months if food, and plenty of water to get us where we would need to go. Staying her ? Prepped very well for that. Leaving on foot, well we both know plenty about wild edibles, besides having dehydrated foods, and living close to salt water and fresh water... I think you can consider all the possible scenarios you are aware of, but can't for those you not foreseeable. 

I do NOT get those folks so unprepared with all that notice!!! They KNEW what was coming, could see it approaching in real time, had so much info, and more than enough time to prepare. If we had a bad storm approaching, we'd pack up our travel trailer, and hit the road (after locking our vehicles in the shop and letting go our chickens).


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## Terri in WV (May 10, 2002)

Wind in Her Hair said:


> My question is WHY do people fail to prepare?
> 
> what IS it that stops people from preparing? :shrug:


I think that mostly it's their mindset. Why prepare when you KNOW help is going to come to bail you out?


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## scooter (Mar 31, 2008)

Windinherhair, like I said in a previous post, it seems to be a lack of common sense.


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## barefootboy (Sep 30, 2012)

I hope everyone realized that there was supposed to be a question mark at the end of my statement "And prepping to take care of yourself so as not to be a burden is evil?"
There are a lot of moral questions that come up from "survival" situations. I had a thread eariler this month discussing looting vs foraging. I believe someone else was discussing who they would take in.
The general society has prevented people in normal times from having to make moral decisions, and have left many with no moral foundation to be anchored to when the waves of disaster sweep over them. But, I feel more than our bodies must survive an event, our morals, our soul,if you will, must also survive. if we are to face some "brave, new world" we must bring into it and teach the generations to come a set of morals and values. It's either that or revert to the law of the jungle. i don't have any set answers for any of this, but I do know that each one that can help themselves adds to the number that can help others.
I'll get off my soap box now.....lol


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## 7thswan (Nov 18, 2008)

Terri in WV said:


> I think that mostly it's their mindset. Why prepare when you KNOW help is going to come to bail you out?


Maybe people that depend on the Goverment don't want' to see that it's not going to work? The Mayor is holding a Marathon,instead of useing those generators to pump fuel out of gas stations for stranded people. The Local utility companys won't allow outside help because they don't belong to the UNION. Yet all of these stranded people will turn right back into IDIOTS when they vote back in a Bloomburg Lib( or someone like a entitlement freek like Obama) that wants to tell people they can only have a 16 oz. cup of POP. Sure , keep depending on the Unicorn to feed you skittles.
These people don't want to take care of themselves,they want a babysitter.


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## Tracy Rimmer (May 9, 2002)

I'm impressed all to heck that the one guy said he needed the gas because he had a generator!!! How many city-types keep a genny in the house??!?


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## Tracy Rimmer (May 9, 2002)

7thswan said:


> Sure , keep depending on the Unicorn to feed you skittles.


Oh, I am *SOOOOO* stealing this!!! What an awesome line!


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## farmrbrown (Jun 25, 2012)

I guess some don't realize this, but unless you're on the beach front facing a large storm surge, evacuation isn't the only option. You fill bathtubs and containers with water, have canned food on hand with a mechanical opener of course, some candles, hurricane lamps or flashlights, and a BBQ grill will make you king of the block, lol.
Plywood or tape the windows, make sure nothing outside will blow away and you're done.
Sure, it could get bad, but you're prepared for the worst. Hurricanes are real good about giving you plenty of advance notice.
And of course no one can prepare for every single event in life, but experience teaches you the most common events and what to do.
I don't *expect* a bad event commuting to work at night, but I always carry a flashlight, good boots and gloves, a cell phone, shovel, spare tire, etc.
Why not?


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## cvk (Oct 30, 2006)

Well, I have to tell you that people in cities with those kinds of jobs don't live the same as the rest of the world. I was born and raised on a farm. However, I then lived 15 years in the city working 7 days per week and 10 to 12 hours per day except when I played hookey or was sick. My freezer was always full and my pantry was never empty because I was raised in the country buttttt---I didn't have a clue what was going on in the world much less the weather forcast. When I wasn't working I was getting ready to work, taking care of kids etc. It is easy for me to understand how someone raised in the city, working in the city and not watching the Weather Channel etc. can just ignore it. I didn't worry about earthquakes even though I was in earthquake country---I was more worried about getting to work! It is easy for me to understand how someone raised in the city and never knowing any other life can ignore everything around them except their own little world until something happens--Personally, I couldn't stand it and I am back out in the country where I can now spend my time worrying about how those people in the cities should know better---however, I know, they have not one clue what goes on in the world that feeds, clothes, or shelters them and don't have time to care. It has always been there when they want it and they don't have time to concern themselves with "what if" It is a whole different mindset.


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## 7thswan (Nov 18, 2008)

Tracy Rimmer said:


> Oh, I am *SOOOOO* stealing this!!! What an awesome line!


OK, but you do realize that the Unicorn eats Rainbows-so you know what skittles are.


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## TheMartianChick (May 26, 2009)

Tracy Rimmer said:


> I'm impressed all to heck that the one guy said he needed the gas because he had a generator!!! How many city-types keep a genny in the house??!?


Generators sold out prior to the storms. You couldn't buy one in NYC after the first day that they started issuing warnings for the storm.


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## kasilofhome (Feb 10, 2005)

My sister choose to stay in her in the city--she has many options--she and her husband have plenty of money--they own 5 homes 3 in NY-one inFL and one In HI. They live in resteraunts--she eats raw, whole foods and special bottled water. 

Brother is dealing with people call him because sis was out there during the storm and right after it taking pictures--She wants to publish a book about the storm--she wants attention. Bro is giving out her private number so that those calling him --asking him to tell sis she is/was stupid and unsafe to tell her directly.

At this point bro and I fig. she is out of apples and bottled water--she is stuck. ---Why because she craves attention living in the limelight. She will be NYC worst nightmare.--We warned her. Now we are warning NYC beware of a beautiful redhead demanding apples and clicking pictures. On a good note she does prep cozen meal for her ----zu. She winters in the warm places and only has a limited amount of winter outfits --all pretty formal. Get her to woodstock NY and save the city.


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## janetn (Apr 26, 2012)

lorichristie said:


> I sat down and figured out how long it would take to pack our travel trailer, if we ever had to bug out in it. No rush? Just a few hours, and we could easily haul six months if food, and plenty of water to get us where we would need to go. Staying her ? Prepped very well for that. Leaving on foot, well we both know plenty about wild edibles, besides having dehydrated foods, and living close to salt water and fresh water... I think you can consider all the possible scenarios you are aware of, but can't for those you not foreseeable.
> 
> I do NOT get those folks so unprepared with all that notice!!! They KNEW what was coming, could see it approaching in real time, had so much info, and more than enough time to prepare. If we had a bad storm approaching, we'd pack up our travel trailer, and hit the road (after locking our vehicles in the shop and letting go our chickens).


Same here - we got a cheap camper and we could load it fairly quickly if need be, but first choice is to stay put. 

I dont get it either - seems they must be in swimming in that river in Egypt or just plain like to be miserable.


You cant prep for everything completely but you sure can for most situations. No excuse for doing nothing or nearly nothing. Then you are just part of the problem, and shouldnt whine when the calvery doesnt come fast enough. 

Now for the folks that lost their homes or are elderly - those folks are the ones that should be recieving the help. But officials are buzy [overwhelmed] taking care of those who could/should have prepared before this storm, taking help away from those who are in real need. IMO is you choose not to prepare you are on your own and should shut up when the calvery doesnt come


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## Old Vet (Oct 15, 2006)

CesumPec said:


> Really? I can believe it might happen, and I don't have a crystal ball to show me that it will definitely not happen, but I have never known one person who had to be rescued with nothing but the clothes on their back. We are gong to need lots more helicopters and ambulances if 300+ million people are going to need rescuing.
> 
> But even if we accept that you re right, that we all will need a rescue one day, so what? What do we take away from that? That we shouldn't prep? That we shouldn't watch the news and be ready to make responsible decisions for our families?


I said that you MAYneed to be rescued. Of course you must prep for things that you can but for unexpected things you will have to be forced to rely on others. Where you want to or not. I guess you have a fire proof and flood home or place to store you belongings so they will be safe for all times. By flood prof I do not mean on top of a hill but somewhere that will never be flood and fire proof means that It will not burn at all even if the packages burn it is not fire proof.


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## CesumPec (May 20, 2011)

Old Vet said:


> I said that you MAYneed to be rescued. Of course you must prep for things that you can but for unexpected things you will have to be forced to rely on others. Where you want to or not. I guess you have a fire proof and flood home or place to store you belongings so they will be safe for all times. By flood prof I do not mean on top of a hill but somewhere that will never be flood and fire proof means that It will not burn at all even if the packages burn it is not fire proof.


I'm sorry, but you didn't say "may". If you meant to, fine, I've made that same sort of mistake. I agree, we all may need to be rescued and even the best prepped, thoughtful person can't anticipate every contingency.


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## Ann-NWIowa (Sep 28, 2002)

Loading up a camper and bugging out might work. However, gas could become an issue depending on the distance you plan to travel. Also, depending the area you have to travel thru (city?) you might run into to major trouble with people who want what you have. I think bugging out only works if you do so well before the rest of the world catches on that bugging out is a good idea. That means at the first hint of trouble you're gone. It also means that you'll be bugging out numerous times that turn out to be false alarms. 

I agree that help should go to those who are unable to help themselves first. Whiners should have to wait and maybe learn something in the process. I feel terrible for those who have lost everything like in the fires.


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## ChristieAcres (Apr 11, 2009)

Leaving in our travel trailer would only be done if we knew a major storm was heading our way. That is probably one of the few reasons. It beats staying to DIE. Also, our diesel has two fuel tanks. In the event of a storm, we would only travel as far as we needed to.

If SHTF in other respects, we'd be foolish to leave with thousands of acres of forest, wild edibles in abundance, fresh water readily available, seafood, etc...

A forest fire would cause us to leave, also.


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## barefootboy (Sep 30, 2012)

Just saw a photo from the affected area that speaks loud and clear. It shows a young boy on a bike, pulling a toy red wagon with logs on it to bring home for firewood. It tells me tht the parent (or parents) either planned or adapted enough to have a fireplace to heat and maybe cook with, and taught their child to not be a whiner, but to take charge of his situation. A thumbs up to whoever they are!
As to bugging out. While I feel in most situations, if we survive the first effects, we will be hunkered down here. But there are at least two situations where we'd have to flee. The first is some kind of fire coming at us. A forest fire would give us enough warning, but some kind of plane crash, gas explosion, etc close enough to be threatening would cut our response time down to mere minutes. The second is if the nuke plant went critical. Again, we'd have some time to get rolling. We have some items in place and the rest are set for us to be down the road in 15 minutes or less, depending on when the event occures ( the middle of the night would slow us up some). We should be miles away with a minumum of 2wks food, water , and camping gear, along with important papers, etc, before most people can get their act together .


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## ChristieAcres (Apr 11, 2009)

We'd be hauling a lot more food, but on the same page.

Biggest mistake made? Expecting to be saved, food to magically appear, and fuel readily available after a natural disaster?!

Also, with technology being so incredibly interwoven to especially high density metropolitan areas? I don't buy for a moment that everyone knew what was coming and could watch it approach n real time. You couldn't avoid hearing about it, splashed all over the news, internet, newspapers, radio, and it was a big topic of conversation!

There were folks in areas that refused to evacuate. They need to take responsibility for that decision.

Sure, everyone, especially in lower risk areas, makes the same choice. The difference is sensible folks have a back up plan.


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## AngieM2 (May 10, 2002)

for me it boils down to: if they can't - I feel sorry for them more
if they won't - I have very little sorry feeling for them
If they try - I have respect, and hope for them


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## Wags (Jun 2, 2002)

What is with attacking the crews trying to restore power? First they complain about the lack of help, and then when it comes they attack them. Just another indication of the mindset. 

Utility workers pelted with eggs after Bridgeport, Conn. mayor blasts provider | Fox News


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## TheMartianChick (May 26, 2009)

Most utility companies do what they can to restore power to the most people that they can at a time. It is suspicious that the largest areas was forced to wait until last...and they also happened to be the poorest. By the mayor's comments, it sounds as though this is not a "new" thing.

My sister retired from our local utility company a few years ago. She responded to a similar question from my dad last year. They prioritize based upon getting the largest numbers back up and running. That is why rural folks are often left until last.

I can't condone throwing things at the workers...That's just wrong!


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## coolrunnin (Aug 28, 2010)

Around here they try to get infrastructure things up first ie. water and sewer hospitals etc. then population centers then they get around to little 'ol me..

Watching them work you wonder how they are working it but then magically it all seems to come together. I also wonder if there where substation issues or something like that hidden from view!


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## Darren (May 10, 2002)

It wasn't hidden from view. This is the huge Con Ed facility in NYC. That'll take more than a roll of tape to fix.

[YOUTUBE]dHWBZ-CaJRA[/YOUTUBE]


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## barefootboy (Sep 30, 2012)

I think the elected officals are starting to feel the heat. They are moving into Staten Island a lot faster now and they decided to call off the NY Marathon. I love the statement they made "We brought a million 1 lt bottles of water to Staten Island" Sounds great until you realize that here is 450K people there. Each needs at the minimum 2 Lts per day. ( the guidlines call for 4 Lt or 1 gal) So youhave enough for 1/4 to 1/2 of the population for 1 day.
Can they keep things under control? It's really on the bubble. Like the old song went "They better keep a movin' and don't stand still..."
It took them 4 days to get there and set up this level...maybe they should say we should prep for 96 hrs and not 72.
What makes me concerned even more is any outbreak of disease in a massed population like that.


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## shannsmom (Jul 28, 2009)

Wow! That's a new low, pelting utility workers with eggs! Geez, after 2 weeks without power post-storm here, we offered them cokes! I understand frustration, but taking it out on the people trying to help you is ridiculous!


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## texican (Oct 4, 2003)

Let us not forget, Sandy struck smack dab in the middle of "Big Government" country. Blue States. Overwhelmingingly so. It's govt's role to take care of them... and that's the way it is. I'm thinking a lot of these Blue State citizens might now question their faith in instantaneous gratification and the warm all caring embrace of govt.

And, what person that builds on the coast, or lowlands, isn't aware of the danger of flooding, during a storm surge event? I built very close to the high river flood line. I consulted my grandpa who experienced some hundred year floods in the early 50's and he told me how high the water got. I found those landmarks and built thirteen feet higher. I've seen a few bad floods, and the water got close, within a hundred yards, but I still had 15' of elevation of safety.

I'm thinking/hoping a lot of the flooded citizens of Sandy will question their beliefs and dependence, and prepare for themselves next time.

As far as the smugness thingie.... should I feel bad that I prepped for my family? if a disaster/shtf struck? How should I feel? Lucky? Luck has zero to do with it. As an old saying goes, Luck is when Preparation meets Opportunity.


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## Work horse (Apr 7, 2012)

Re: evacuating/bugging out 

I think it's worth considering, that many people who live in large cities use public transportation to get around, and DON'T have their own vehicle to just up and leave at any time. 

I do scratch my head, though, at all the people scrambling for gas & supplies after such a short time.


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## Laura Zone 5 (Jan 13, 2010)

When I build on the coast.....Hurricanes happen.
When I build in the mid west......tornados and blizzards happen
When I build near a fault.....earthquakes happen
When I build in the woods.....wild fires happen.
When I build on the water, ANY water......floods happen
When I build on land, in America.......droughts, freezes, heat waves happen.

I prep for where I build.
I can have a house FULL of preps.
They do me NO GOOD when, by whatever means, it is completely erased from the map.
I can have a super plan for bugging out, but that will limit what preps I can carry, and at some point, I will run out.
I can fill 5, 10, 15 five gallon jugs of gas, and eventually, they run out.

I can be the same person as the gal on the coast WITH NO preps.
It just takes a little longer to be in her shoes..

How many of us are going to 'home school co-ops" and teaching preparedness?
How many of us are going to boy scout/girl scout troops and teaching preparedness?
How many of us are going into the private OR public schools, and teaching preparedness?
How many of us are going to church and teaching, preparedness?
How many of us are heading up at class at our local extension to teach preparedness?
How many of us are volunteering at the Red Cross......to show compassion for those who have never been taught?


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## barefootboy (Sep 30, 2012)

Laura Zone 5
I have read you posting 3 times, and all I can get out of it is prepping will only give you a little longer to last than the person who doesn't prep.
If that is your belief , fine. I am NOT here to argue with you or persuade you otherwise.
I can think of a number of reasons why I might not make it after a major event, starting with not surviving the direct effects of the event ( tree falling the wrong way,etc.) to my health issues ( high BP, heart, lungs, diabedes, etc.) to being too close to a small city or two. ( the horde overrunning me)
But, I am going to put every ace up my sleeve I can, starting with the things no one can take from me, *knowledge and will*, and adding anything else I can.
Prepping will not give you a 100% iron clad guarantee of survival, but NOT prepping will stack the deck against you even more.


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## coolrunnin (Aug 28, 2010)

barefootboy said:


> Laura Zone 5
> I have read you posting 3 times, and all I can get out of it is prepping will only give you a little longer to last than the person who doesn't prep.
> If that is your belief , fine. I am NOT here to argue with you or persuade you otherwise.
> I can think of a number of reasons why I might not make it after a major event, starting with not surviving the direct effects of the event ( tree falling the wrong way,etc.) to my health issues ( high BP, heart, lungs, diabedes, etc.) to being too close to a small city or two. ( the horde overrunning me)
> ...



I don't get that out of Laura5's post at all. You do need to prep for your likely disaster. And if you are forced to evacuate you will be at a disadvantage.

And if you don't impart your knowledge and skills to others you are truly not prepping.


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## TNHermit (Jul 14, 2005)

Laura Zone 5 said:


> When I build on the coast.....Hurricanes happen.
> When I build in the mid west......tornados and blizzards happen
> When I build near a fault.....earthquakes happen
> When I build in the woods.....wild fires happen.
> ...


I only got one question sweetie. Which life style would you take personal pride in for yourself and the possibility to help others? I know that work is evil and I have more questions. I like what barefoot said also. But I will ask that one


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## CesumPec (May 20, 2011)

LZ5 - the real prep is sustainability, having enough stored until you can make do with the food, water, etc that you produce at home. I don't know how that can realistically be done in a major city. And I sure hope it never comes to that because there is no way I'm that ready. Yet. 

As to teaching others, I think that is great and noble. But city-bound preps can probably be done on a single sheet of paper, a simple listing of two weeks worth of supplies. There just isn't that much to teach except maybe how to take personal responsibility. 

Yes, for those that had their homes pushed into the marshes, preps would be of limited value and we will still need gov't help for the injured, disabled, and displaced. but most of those within the Sandy zone still have their homes and would be doing MUCH better if they just had an easily, cheaply prepped supply of food and water. Add some sort of off-grid heat and they could wait out the 2 weeks it will take to get most people back into relative normalcy.


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## TNHermit (Jul 14, 2005)

CesumPec said:


> LZ5 - the real prep is sustainability, having enough stored until you can make do with the food, water, etc that you produce at home. I don't know how that can realistically be done in a major city. And I sure hope it never comes to that because there is no way I'm that ready. Yet.
> 
> As to teaching others, I think that is great and noble. But city-bound preps can probably be done on a single sheet of paper, a simple listing of two weeks worth of supplies. There just isn't that much to teach except maybe how to take personal responsibility.
> 
> Yes, for those that had their homes pushed into the marshes, preps would be of limited value and we will still need gov't help for the injured, disabled, and displaced. but most of those within the Sandy zone still have their homes and would be doing MUCH better if they just had an easily, cheaply prepped supply of food and water. Add some sort of off-grid heat and they could wait out the 2 weeks it will take to get most people back into relative normalcy.


I don't understand why city people can not be prepped. The space under beds is wasted. There was a thread on here not long ago who built a rolling rotating can holder that held hundreds of cans and could easily be scaled down. There are several threads on making a one gallon bucket heater and cooker. Trunks of cars are wasted space and could hold clothing. Unless you live in one of those "hallway" apartments i see no reason . to me its an imagination problem. i had enough in a 5x8 triler apt to go for a month


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## barefootboy (Sep 30, 2012)

First off, I am not egotistical enought to believe I know enought to teach. I would share with them, as I do here, what knowledge, etc I have if the groups you mentioned would even allow me to try. I have written letters to the local papers, made clear my position on these matters, yet schools, groups, etc, still tar prepping with the brush of "wacko militia types". School boards, made up of politicians,don't want ideas of self reliance or independence in their schools. And many other groups don't like people not being sheep.
Believe me, I can't even discuss this with my wife's friends.
I am grateful that I found a site like this to be able to exchange ideas. Most prepping sites are politics riddent, assualt rifle happy, camo commandos hang-outs.
As the old saying goes "I would if I could, but I can't so I don't"


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## kasilofhome (Feb 10, 2005)

I got one of the "My patriot supplies" food storage things cost was less than a latte a day for a month. It takes up the space of a kitty litter bucket. One could take it food out store in another thing so that the bucket could be fill with about 5 gallons. It would be a welcome thing right now for many. If people walk away from this deal and refuse to see what they could do in the future it will only be repeated. I want to help them --do they want to help themselves? Ok, it is a mental time for them right now and they need a break I get that. I know that when a crisis happens at some point the people need a break and comfort. Living in a pity party mindset is not going to save them. As tough as it is they --have to be part of the solution.


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## ovsfarm (Jan 14, 2003)

Actions and choices have consequences.

When I lived in Florida, I knew that I would have to deal with hurricanes. So what that I lived more inland part of the time and didn't have to deal with "most" hurricanes. I knew a big one could cause me a lot of trouble and I prepared accordingly. I didn't have to be a disaster risk specialist to figure that out. All I had to do was to ask around. The natives and other locals were glad to tell me about all their past hurricane experiences. I learned about which rivers would flood, which areas got the worst wind in which situations, I learned a whole lot and all it cost me was the price of a few cups of coffee. This is not rocket science. You do not have to be a meterologist to calculate your own risk.

Regarding smugness - OMG!!! someone called me smug! I've been called worse...

It is incredibly frustrating to go out of my way to try to encourage others to prep, and see them do nothing, or worse - ridicule me when I try to help them.

Now they are in trouble. I'm sorry that they are experiencing that. But I am not sympathetic. They made choices. They lived in an area prone to a particular risk, yet they did not accept the possibility that the risk would ever affect them. They had years of warnings and encouragement from FEMA, Red Cross, etc. telling them to keep a few preps on hand, but they did not. They had previous years' experiences of other storms and hurricanes and knew it "could" happen in their area, but they never accepted that it would really come to their street, their house. They had the specific warnings and directives from a multitude of experts and public officials regarding this particular storm, but they thought they knew better and decided to disregard the warnings. 

And now they are dining on a harsh plate of consequences. The consequences that their actions created have come to pass. It saddens me that they are suffering.

I, however, live hundreds of miles from the coast. Because I feel the need to be vigilant and protect my family, I read forums such as S&EP. Tankpa raised the alarm here a full week before the storm came in. I knew it wouldn't hit me directly, but I thought about what I know about such storms, previous experience, forecasts by people I respect, etc. and decided that it would be prudent for me to review and top up my preps.

If I, who live far away from the projected impact area, can take heed and get ready, why did so many who live directly in the path of the storm not take heed? It makes me crazy frustrated to see their suffering, the suffering of their children, and to know that in many cases, it could have been prevented if they had just taken the most basic steps to prepare themselves. 

So no, I don't have sympathy for anyone who lives in the affected area who didn't fill up their cars and an extra gas can or two last week. I don't have sympathy for those who disregarded all the information about how much food and water they needed to have on hand. They made their choices. And now, sadly, they have to suffer their consequences.

I do, certainly feel for the people who were hit by things that could not be foreseen or prepared for, those whose homes burned for example. I would willingly help them as best as I can. (And am working now on a couple of church related relief ministries that will step in as soon as the first responders' work eases.) They are suffering from unavoidable consequences.

I guess that is what it comes down to for me, avoidable consequences or unavoidable ones. I have great sympathy for those suffering from unavoidable ones, not much for those suffering avoidable things. I am tired of the excuses, which are merely lies stuffed inside the skin of reasons. It amuses me to be called smug. My family struggles with lack of money, lack of time, lack of space, difficulty prioritizing, and all the other challenges that every other family deals with. If we can prep, anyone can. It comes down to making the choice to do so.


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## CesumPec (May 20, 2011)

ovsfarm said:


> Regarding smugness - OMG!!!


Good post and as far as any of us being smug, after my two requests, the smug accuser wasn't able to list one comment that she considered smug. I don't know if it was nothing more than a troll or just someone upset about seeing all the misery.


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## coolrunnin (Aug 28, 2010)

barefootboy said:


> First off, I am not egotistical enought to believe I know enought to teach. I would share with them, as I do here, what knowledge, etc I have if the groups you mentioned would even allow me to try. I have written letters to the local papers, made clear my position on these matters, yet schools, groups, etc, still tar prepping with the brush of "wacko militia types". School boards, made up of politicians,don't want ideas of self reliance or independence in their schools. And many other groups don't like people not being sheep.
> Believe me, I can't even discuss this with my wife's friends.
> I am grateful that I found a site like this to be able to exchange ideas. Most prepping sites are politics riddent, assualt rifle happy, camo commandos hang-outs.
> As the old saying goes "I would if I could, but I can't so I don't"


Isn't teaching just sharing the knowledge that you have? 
Scouting is a great way to learn more skills and impart the skills that you have. C.E.R.T. is also a great avenue to learn new skills and share skills you possess.

Don't like the way your school or local government is run? Effect change from within, either run yourself or actively support candidates that think as you do.


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## barefootboy (Sep 30, 2012)

*coolrunnin*
I appreciate your views amd the positive manner you mean them, and I am not saying you are wrong, because where you are things are, hopefully, different. 
First off, a teacher stands before a class proclaiming themselves an authority on a subject and is not interested in learning from others, especially if it contradicts what they are putting out. I do not. I share what I know and am eager to learn from others and willing to see where I may be making a mistake or have faulty information.
I can't speak on scouting in this area, and it may be an option. But I also remember the old rule "You are only recognized as having knowledge when some authority confirms it."
Without something to say "This person knows his stuff." I doubt they would let me speak.
As to the last point, I don't want to get into politics here on this thread. I will simply say that people who hold views like me don't get to be canidates in either party, and if one "reformer" did get in they are neutralized by members of both parties so as not to upset the "status quo" After all, where is it that children are turned into sheep, are taught NOT to think for themselves? The schools.


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## unregistered65598 (Oct 4, 2010)

I see prepping this way, 
It starts out mentaly. You begin by using your brain. You think about the area you live in and all of the things that could happen in your area. you watch and listen to the news, educate yourself on world happening abrord and in your home country. You think how all of these things going on could effect your future and that of your family and friends. So from there you start making lists of things you will need when one of the events you have thought would happen where you are located. You start buying things from those lists. Then as you think you are getting a handle on being prepared, the what if's settle in. Now your mind is going crazy and you feel as if you will never be ready. Now you have found this site and post your concerns. Others reply with ideas for you to learn new skills to ease your what if's and even maybe more importantly there are others who reply with " I have been there and I understand, Now take a deep breath" and they explain how they got through it. Once the worry has passed you get back to your lists and move forward. So I guess what I am trying to say is these people never even began the process of prepping, See they still think it can't happen to them. If they would have thought differently they would have been prepared. I also feel that the majority of those crying about not getting help have never had to help themselves and that is so very sad. I have had hard times unbelievable to most and they feel sad that I had to go through those things, but you know what? Those things made me the strong able to adapt person I am. I feel sorry for those who have never had to do anything for themselves because that has made them who they are today, whining teenage brats who are not getting thier way.


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## ChristieAcres (Apr 11, 2009)

Interesting posts... Then there is my favorite and only brother, living near a mall, smack dab in the middle of the City. He lives in a town home with a small fenced backyard. Behind that fence, is a major thoroughfare, two lanes, and across those lanes is a MALL. Now, here's a surprise...

DB has preps for a full year, multiple generators, fuel & propane stocked at all times, water, and I won't go into the rest except to say, he is better prepped across the board than any one else I know. Bug out? Yes, prepped for that, too. He is brilliant and incredibly diverse in knowledge, skills, and abilities. Just recently, he bought a box truck, diesel, and setting it up. He will be moving. I hope he will relocate here to WA.

We are prepped for a quake+, which includes high winds, snow storm, flooding, and forest fires. We now have preps for at least 9 months, am working to make that one year. Bugging out options are multiple, not worried. Say there is a severe quake and our home is damaged? We have a camper, travel trailer, two garden cabins, and a shop. I am sure we will have at least one option left.

Since Military bases are close, not prepping for nuclear fallout, since we wouldn't survive, anyway.


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## Laura Zone 5 (Jan 13, 2010)

TNHermit said:


> I only got one question sweetie. *Which life style would you take personal pride in for yourself and the possibility to help others*? I know that work is evil and I have more questions. I like what barefoot said also. But I will ask that one


I am assuming the two different lifestyles you are talking about are the "prepared" lifestyle -vs- the "unprepared" lifestyle? With this assumption, I will answer the question:

Being prepared affords one the opportunity to share/help others. 
It then becomes a question of "will I share" or "will I not share"?
I personally prefer to be prepared and then share that knowledge with anyone who wants to be prepared too.
And that goes from just showing a teen why it's so important to have a first aid kit in their car to showing someone who has NEVER had food in their house, how to cook and then how to prepare for a natural disaster.
What I have, I share. If that's tangibles, if that's knowledge, or if it's just a website. I do share.

I hope I answered the question!


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## Laura Zone 5 (Jan 13, 2010)

Wind in Her Hair said:


> My question is WHY do people fail to prepare?
> 
> 
> Do they feel overwhelmed and incapable of fending off the inevitable disaster?
> ...


THIS IS AN AMAZING question!!!
This would be a great way to 'introduce' folks to the idea of preparing.
Thank you!!

ETA: Getting started was "overwhelming" for me.
I am a checklist kind of gal.....and there are SO many variations.....it really overwhelmed me.
There is not 'simple' spread sheet / chart. It is so very custom, and it is time consuming to get started.
I am still very willy nilly and have "holes" as people say.....
But for city folks, who have never had more than a few days worth of food in the house AND did not have a prepared mindset:
It's very, overwhelming.
It is a blessing to have this site. I can ask the same question 3 times, and everyone is patient to answer it, and I learn something new every time I ask it!!


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## Laura Zone 5 (Jan 13, 2010)

barefootboy said:


> *coolrunnin*
> I appreciate your views amd the positive manner you mean them, and I am not saying you are wrong, because where you are things are, hopefully, different.
> First off, a teacher stands before a class proclaiming themselves an authority on a subject and is not interested in learning from others, especially if it contradicts what they are putting out. I do not. I share what I know and am eager to learn from others and willing to see where I may be making a mistake or have faulty information.
> I can't speak on scouting in this area, and it may be an option. But I also remember the old rule "You are only recognized as having knowledge when some authority confirms it."
> ...


Regarding schools. I totally agree. That's why I pulled mine and homeschooled.
HSLDA: Homeschooling Advocates since 1983 and click on your state.
It will tell you the home school co-ops in your area. 
Most of those co-ops are VERY open to teaching gardening, canning, sewing, and disaster preparedness. 

I thought boy scouts were all about the outdoors and 'boy' type things? My son never did BS because all the troops in my area were ran by women.....and for me personally, that was not what I was looking for.

What I am telling all my friends (well ok the 2-3 gals I hang out with:grin now is "are you ready for winter". We had a hideious drought this summer, and it seems a harsh winter always follows. 
Red Cross has phamplets that give a 'basic' outline of what to store for a blizzard. THIS can open so many doors to 'teaching' them how to be prepared for a blizzard and beyond.
That's the kind of teaching I am talking about......:grin:


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## barefootboy (Sep 30, 2012)

LZ5 We differ only in terminology. What you mean by teaching, I mean by sharing. I did send another letter to the newspaper yesterday about prepping. I expect the same lack of interest. I am not familiar with co-ops around here, but it might be an area to look into. Having met thre other "preppers" on here who are within 50 miles of me, there may be other avenues to explore.
Again, I can't speak about the BS, but from what I have seen I find them very structured and not open to the independent thinking that is the main strength of a "prepper"


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## Laura Zone 5 (Jan 13, 2010)

barefootboy said:


> *LZ5 We differ only in terminology. *What you mean by teaching, I mean by sharing. I did send another letter to the newspaper yesterday about prepping. I expect the same lack of interest. I am not familiar with co-ops around here, but it might be an area to look into. Having met thre other "preppers" on here who are within 50 miles of me, there may be other avenues to explore.
> Again, I can't speak about the BS, but from what I have seen I find them very structured and not open to the independent thinking that is the main strength of a "prepper"


HOORAY!!!!
I was 'thinkin' that was the case, thanks for clearing it up!!


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## stickinthemud (Sep 10, 2003)

lol Reading excerpts to elder DD & she told me about her adventure as a college student moving into this place when there was temporary electric service. Not enough power to run the hot water heater so she heated water in the microwave to rinse after taking a cold shower. Got power hooked up within two weeks & everything else has been easy to take.


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## goatlady (May 31, 2002)

Part of being a prepper is having a backup plan!!! preferably more than 1 but one for sure. and waiting for the Red Cross/FEMA is NOT a plan at all.


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## Annsni (Oct 27, 2006)

Living on Long Island, I can tell you one thing: we're spoiled. We don't get big storms. We don't have inconveniences. Less than 24 hours after the storm, a woman was calling into the radio complaining "Where is my power???" even though the power company called and warned us it might be a week to 10 days before it came back. 99% of the people didn't prepare properly. My girls work in a grocery store and people were shopping on Sunday and buying tons of frozen and dairy foods. One elderly woman said "I'm getting a bunch of TV dinners in case I lose power and my oven doesn't work." HUH?????? NO common sense, IMO. I posted on Facebook days before to freeze containers of water and so many said that they had never thought of that. A number of people responded to my question "What do you wish you had done before the storm?" and many said that they wished they had filled their cars with gas. 

Long Islanders are spoiled. This situation is so beyond them.


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## TNHermit (Jul 14, 2005)

Annsni said:


> Living on Long Island, I can tell you one thing: we're spoiled. We don't get big storms. We don't have inconveniences. Less than 24 hours after the storm, a woman was calling into the radio complaining "Where is my power???" even though the power company called and warned us it might be a week to 10 days before it came back. 99% of the people didn't prepare properly. My girls work in a grocery store and people were shopping on Sunday and buying tons of frozen and dairy foods. One elderly woman said "I'm getting a bunch of TV dinners in case I lose power and my oven doesn't work." HUH?????? NO common sense, IMO. I posted on Facebook days before to freeze containers of water and so many said that they had never thought of that. A number of people responded to my question "What do you wish you had done before the storm?" and many said that they wished they had filled their cars with gas.
> 
> Long Islanders are spoiled. This situation is so beyond them.


Well done and well stated. kudos to th egirls  Telling it like it is about your own area is tough. i hope your doing well and the rest smarten up . Looks like you got another storm and no dunes. Or so they are saying


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## AngieM2 (May 10, 2002)

I may have seen your post on facebook. I wish others would have used some critical thinking of cause and effect and then ACT on it.

And that bit about the tv dinners. I hope she has a solar oven to put them in.

I wish folks were thinking right and did some useful prepping.


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