# Elderberry .... netting ?



## motdaugrnds (Jul 3, 2002)

I just today received my order for two (2) Elderberry "shrubs". They are so tiny (not over 8") but both have a nice root system. I was told to plant them not more than 10' apart; that they would grow 12-14' tall and have an 8' spread.

I called Henry Fields about them and was told there was a difference between Elderberry "shrubs" and Elderberry "trees"; but that the fruit was the same and could be used the same way. I have no reason to disbelieve this.

I know the birds will like them when they start fruiting; so I want to be prepared. I know I can purchase bird netting; but how on earth do you get it over a 14' tall shrub; then how do you get it off again so as to gather the fruit?


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## NickieL (Jun 15, 2007)

I planted two a couple years ago, they are the elderberry shrubs and are as tall as I am now (Started as small twigs from pinetree garden seeds) and I've had a great harvest from them this year already---enough for canning two batches of jam and jelly and then some left on the bushes...the birds seem to ignore mine but then I give them plenty of other stuff to eat. You can prune the shrub to keep it shorter too---like any other shrub or tree.

Where i grew up, there were elderberry 'trees" that had blue berries instead of black and were definitely big trees. The shrub type is native around where I live now, it's everywhere where the soil seems damp.


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## farmerjohn (Jun 11, 2010)

Eldeberry grows along the roadside. You could have just dug up some and transplanted or did cuttings. There are 2 types of Eldeberry. The reddish fruited one you do not want to use. The dark purple to black fruit is ok. Eldeberries by themselves as a jam is rather tart. Mixed with grape juice will make it less so. I have been making jelly from the roadside bushes for 40+ years. Take the seeds/pulp after straining and throw where you would like them to grow. They do spread easily. Berries will start on 2 year old growth. Berry heads are usually very heavy and will hang. Not a berry that birds go after right away. They are usually left alone to fall off from being overripe. Process as in most receipes. In NE Indiana. Within a 2 mile area of my house I could get approx. 50 lbs. of berry.


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## motdaugrnds (Jul 3, 2002)

farmerjohn, now I'm leery about what I got. They were advertised as good for foods/wine; but the color of the berry was not mentioned.


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## Paquebot (May 10, 2002)

Elderberry can be pruned down to a manageable and thick rounded bush type. Allow any shoot which forms at or near the soil to grow. Eventually you'll have multiple but equal trunks. That's the purpose of the 10' spacing as they may become that wide.

Purple is the standard color for elderberries while red is very uncommon. All wild purple varieties are those which got their starts as domestic varieties and are safe.

Birds love them here. In the fall, a migrating flock of red-winged blackbirds will strip a bush within minutes. That's how their seeds are spread all over the country, especially the lowlands which those birds usually frequent. 

Martin


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## motdaugrnds (Jul 3, 2002)

... and netting?


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## farmerjohn (Jun 11, 2010)

I would not worry about it. The plant sets a blossum head much like Queen Ann's Lace. Saucer like of many white blossums. Actually mine across the road are more like large round platters of blossum. Those that have comeup in the bottoom-this is the first year-are allready 5' tall on hte average or taller. This next year they will have fruit. Within the same stretch of road of approx. 1 mile long is also red berries. If you ordered from a reputable seed/fruit/tree catalog I am sure they are edible. Just call or email them and ask. If you want starts just pm me and I will try and send some for cost of shipping. Plant is not a hard woody plant and easily breaks at the stems. Have never seen a bird on mine eating and I watch the birds. Maybe here they have better food source. Also berry ripens about the same time as the concord grape so the two can be mixed in jelly easily. Grandmother also used her currants with them but tart to tart makes it strong. I am thinking of maybe a sweeter fruit like peach might be better.

Also look out for Highland Crandberry's. It is a shrub-very nice bright red berries-very woody shrub and berries can be made into jelly also. Makes a beautiful red jelly.


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## Paquebot (May 10, 2002)

motdaugrnds said:


> ... and netting?


The same company which sold the plants may also sell the netting. For example, Jung's has 3 sizes, 7x20, 14x14, and 28x28. 

Martin


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## motdaugrnds (Jul 3, 2002)

My question was "How do I get the netting over the 14' bush; then how do I get it off again?"

I know where to get the netting; and I also believe the bush will poke thru it so it will probably terrible to get off. Surely one does not just leave it on year after year.

Don't worry about it? Well, wish I didn't need to; but there are some who tell me the birds will eat every elderberry they can find; so I do worry about it.


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## Paquebot (May 10, 2002)

I've seen very few 14' elderberry bushes since that is what they were, bushes. If one wanted to grow them as a tree, just one main stem would be allowed to grow. Then one would have problems not only in protecting them but also picking them. I didn't find a description on the Henry Fields site but the one that is most widely available only gets to 8'. (Jung's catalog says 6' to 8'.) As I said, let them grow as a bushy shrub and they won't ever get too tall. 

Martin


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## motdaugrnds (Jul 3, 2002)

Ok I'm making a guess here that "netting" is not something anyone would advise my using. 

Page 78 in the spring 2010 catalog Henry Field's put out states, "...shrub grows to 12-14 ft..."; thus, my inquiry about this height. Being able to keep them shorter than this would be wonderful! (With a much shorter "shrub", I think David and I could manage netting ok, though the one year I used it on my garden, it was a mess to get off.)


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## farmerjohn (Jun 11, 2010)

If you cut them back each fall you can control the height. Also the shrub will get fuller from the bottom up. It sends out new growth from the ground-much like a Lilac. I just went to measure the bare branches across the road from me and the tallest is probably around 8'. Do I cut them back? No-when thebranches get heavy with berry they bend down with the weight. If I cannot reach it I grab the branch and pull it down to me. As I have said-I have gotten berries for jelly making for 40+ years and I have never seen birds attack them in numbers and rarely as an individual bird. Not all berries on one blossom will mature at the same time so maybe where a few berries have matured early and fell off people maythink a bird got them. I don't know but I know that when I am gleaning them for jelly that I will still have green berries among the dead ripe ones.


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## freelove (Jun 17, 2005)

Well, I took out my elderberry bushes last summer. Every year I would cut them to the ground and every summer they would grow back to 12'-14' and they spread like wildfire. They were bushes that I bought from one of the nurseries, York and Nova, I think. I tried netting and it was a royal pain so the birds got more of the berries than I did. 

The wild ones seem to be less aggressive, I am thinking of trying them. St. Lawrence Nursery has them, I think, or I can dig them at a friend's house. 

freelove


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## motdaugrnds (Jul 3, 2002)

Freelove, those two are the exact same shrubs I ordered (and received) from Henry Field's Nurseries. (I was told the birds would get them if I didn't learn to use netting. This is why I placed my thread here to learn how to use netting.)

Guess I'll see how these do for us where I placed them. After awhile, it may be I will be looking for wild ones as you are.


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## NickieL (Jun 15, 2007)

motdaugrnds said:


> Freelove, those two are the exact same shrubs I ordered (and received) from Henry Field's Nurseries. (I was told the birds would get them if I didn't learn to use netting. This is why I placed my thread here to learn how to use netting.)
> 
> Guess I'll see how these do for us where I placed them. After awhile, it may be I will be looking for wild ones as you are.


Of course they are trying to sell you netting...they are in the buisness of selling!


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## motdaugrnds (Jul 3, 2002)

Nickiel, I have been on these forums for several years now and have seen many posts about people having to cover their fruit trees with netting; so I do believe some find it useful. I just wish I knew how to use it well.


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## NickieL (Jun 15, 2007)

I think you should see if they will get them first or not. I have planted elderberry, blueberries, cherries, etc---things birds like. None of the birds have ever touched them. Ever. We do have a lot of birds here. They love my sunflowers. I see them go after the wild trees near by--- black cherry, pearhaw, washingtong haw, crabapples but they leave the elderberries alone.

Maybe you have elderberry eatting birds there. But the first year they produce they don't even give you a handful of berries. I'd leave it and see if the birds will mess with them before worrying about netting.


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## motdaugrnds (Jul 3, 2002)

I agree that birds will go after what they enjoy most. We don't have sunflowers or crabapples; and last year they ate every one of our grapes and blackberries. (If I had known how to use netting, I would have saved some of these for us to enjoy.)

I have planted mulberry trees to feed the birds; but they have had a very, very slow start and have not produced yet. I ordered two of these Elderberry shrubs and planted them on the other end (opposite our mulberry trees) so as to "hopefully" keep them off the asian pears (once they start producing); but I did want to harvest some for medicinal usage.


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## Astrid (Nov 13, 2010)

I had always heard you should not eat red or white elderberries, but a local woman makes juice from the red ones. What are the problems associated with the red berries?


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## Paquebot (May 10, 2002)

Astrid said:


> I had always heard you should not eat red or white elderberries, but a local woman makes juice from the red ones. What are the problems associated with the red berries?


The foliage is slightly toxic. I've used the red for wine with no problem.

Martin


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## centralNC (Nov 22, 2010)

motdaugrnds said:


> I agree that birds will go after what they enjoy most. We don't have sunflowers or crabapples; and last year they ate every one of our grapes and blackberries. (If I had known how to use netting, I would have saved some of these for us to enjoy.)
> 
> I have planted mulberry trees to feed the birds; but they have had a very, very slow start and have not produced yet. I ordered two of these Elderberry shrubs and planted them on the other end (opposite our mulberry trees) so as to "hopefully" keep them off the asian pears (once they start producing); but I did want to harvest some for medicinal usage.



Perhaps instead of buying the mesh netting that the garden/seed magazines are selling try to find a different sort of diversion along the same lines. Take a larger netting and build some sort of lean (using the netting and posts) to put over the bushes/trees to enclose them making it hard for the birds to get at them. From what other posters are saying it sounds as if the bushes will be so loaded with berries that they will sway to the ground causing the height to not be so tall. I tried that netting that they sell in the seed magazines once and it was not a pretty sight so I understand your frustration about using it. I wish I could be of more help to you there. Sorry. Another thought is to put lots of feeders out for the birds so that they might possibly avoid your fruits/berries. Good luck.


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## motdaugrnds (Jul 3, 2002)

Your idea about the lean that I could drape the netting from is certainly something to consider. Thank you. I was considering something similar for shading my tomatoes next year and don't see why it wouldn't work to protect my berries.


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## centralNC (Nov 22, 2010)

It would be much less tedious then trying to mess with those nettings that are sold in the gardening magazines. Good luck with it.


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## farmerjohn (Jun 11, 2010)

And the fact that some of those nettings are barely more substantial than nylon net from the fabric store and sun rot in the summer. Maybe hang up some of those cd disks we get in the mail. I use them in the barn to discourage the birds as well as in the berry rows. Bird guns do not seem to work consistently but movement does. I am tring to figure out a way to have a constant moving flag of some sort moved by a battery or elec. Just a thought.


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