# How many goats needed to clear 20 acres?



## Farmerboy16

Yup, my question is how many goats to clear 20 acres of wild wild land in one growing season? About 50% is wooded and bush, and the rest is somewhat a meadow with trees and bushes and an very old barn that needs TLC. This land is next to us, and I am planning to buy it through Land Contract, so my farm can go from 5 acres to 25 acres. I have 1 milk cow and her calf, and 2 steers, and about 15 AGH(American Guinea Hogs) and a bunch of chickens.

My goal is buy a bunch of day-old kids in the spring cheaply as I can, and when they are old enough, turn them loose in the land, course I will have it all fenced in. I want to turn this land back into a farm. Then in the fall, sell them all so I don't have to feed them through the winter and make a profit as much as possible, but keep a bred doe or two for milk. Any feedback or ideas are welcome. 

I do have experience with goats as a few of my neighbors have a few dairy goats, and I have cared for them while the owners are away. 

Which is better to get dairy breeds or meat breed? Or a mixture?


But, I am not going to do any of this until the year of 2014, for there are some people interested in the land next to me. I can't do anything about it until August, then if no one has made an offer that the owner want it for, then I can move on with my plans then. God willing!


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## Alice In TX/MO

Get a crossbred meat breed, clear the acreage, sell them, then get GOOD goats. 

Here's the long and detailed answer:
http://www.tennesseemeatgoats.com/articles2/goatsperacre.html

The short answer is seven per acre. BUT.... they won't eat it to clear it unless they are starving. Goats are picky eaters, and they browse like deer.


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## simi-steading

Depends on how fast you can teach them to run a bulldozer... I don't think they'll get those trees removed without one...


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## Bret

What has need anything to do with it?


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## fishhead

I've been told that each kid takes about 25 gallons of milk to get up to weaning size.

You might be better off going to the sales barn and getting some already weaned goats.


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## CaliannG

In a single season, if you plan to bulldoze down what is left of the trees that have had their bark stripped from them, then to take 20 acres to bare ground, you will need 200 goats.

AVERAGE stocking rate is 5 goats per acre. To OVERGRAZE would be 7 goats per acre. But if you want your acreage cleared completely, you need 10 goats per acre.

As for day old kids....you will be putting a LOT of money into bottle raising 200 kids.

What you might consider is finding a goat rancher nearby with meat goats, and just letting him graze his goats on your land for a season. That's the only way I can think of to get the large number of goats you will need to clear graze that place to ground without a significant capital output.

Whether you buy and raise bottle babies, or buy adult goats, the money you will spend to do so is about the same. Babies will need a lot of money and time in milk and care before they manage to kill off a single sapling.


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## Farmerboy16

Thanks everyone with info. It helps. 




simi-steading said:


> Depends on how fast you can teach them to run a bulldozer... I don't think they'll get those trees removed without one...


Trees can be removed by me with the chainsaw. The only trees I want gone are the ones that are growing around the barn, and those I will cut. The wooded areas are densely overgrown with honeysuckle, wild rose, and dogwood bushes, and a few others types. I know that goats are bush grazers, that is what I want gone, bushes. I will have my cows with them. Cows will eat the grass, some leaves, goats eat bushes and some saplings. Win win.


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## Farmerboy16

I do not want to clear everything to the ground, just open up and rid of the undergrowth, so more grass can grow for my cows. And goats seems to be a good fit for that project.


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## CaliannG

If what you want is to simply clear underbrush...and the cows will help a little with that, then I would go with 5 goats and 1 cow per acre....so 100 goats and 20 head of cattle. That will clear it out in a season for you.


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## stanb999

It kinda depends on where you are. Here the 7 number seems about right. One thing to consider is little ones won't eat as much as big ones and they won't reach up and topple brush like big ones can. I know it's obvious but I thought I'd point it out. I wouldn't break it up into paddocks or rotational type areas at all. Just put their housing in the center. They will work there way out. Eating the bush in the spring, weeds in the summer, grass in the fall, bark in the winter. They will need good quality hay also for winter. They will need access to water, they wont drink much on "pasture" but should always have it(yes it will grow algae before they drink it.) They will need mineral. Otherwise they will just eat and do well. They won't need grain or other feeds until winter. Then it should be fed as needed for fitness. Don't let them get fat. They will strip bark as long as they have horns to about 6' on trees smaller than 8" caliper. Fence what you want to keep. They will leave an abundance of weeds. They will not keep the grass mowed well. They will escape all but the tightest highest fence you have the nerve to build. 

20 acres will take a while unless you have a huge # of goats. But they will get it done. My small heard has cleared several acres of what was bush so thick you couldn't walk at all(you could barely crawl), mixed with briers, hawthorn and small trees. Now after a few years. It looks like a park with bigger trees and grass.


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## Minelson

I would add some horses to the mix. Maybe advertise on CL for pasture available. What is your location?


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## Farmerboy16

CaliannG said:


> If what you want is to simply clear underbrush...and the cows will help a little with that, then I would go with 5 goats and 1 cow per acre....so 100 goats and 20 head of cattle. That will clear it out in a season for you.





stanb999 said:


> It kinda depends on where you are. Here the 7 number seems about right. One thing to consider is little ones won't eat as much as big ones and they won't reach up and topple brush like big ones can. I know it's obvious but I thought I'd point it out. I wouldn't break it up into paddocks or rotational type areas at all. Just put their housing in the center. They will work there way out. Eating the bush in the spring, weeds in the summer, grass in the fall, bark in the winter. They will need good quality hay also for winter. They will need access to water, they wont drink much on "pasture" but should always have it(yes it will grow algae before they drink it.) They will need mineral. Otherwise they will just eat and do well. They won't need grain or other feeds until winter. Then it should be fed as needed for fitness. Don't let them get fat. They will strip bark as long as they have horns to about 6' on trees smaller than 8" caliper. Fence what you want to keep. They will leave an abundance of weeds. They will not keep the grass mowed well. They will escape all but the tightest highest fence you have the nerve to build.
> 
> 20 acres will take a while unless you have a huge # of goats. But they will get it done. My small heard has cleared several acres of what was bush so thick you couldn't walk at all(you could barely crawl), mixed with briers, hawthorn and small trees. Now after a few years. It looks like a park with bigger trees and grass.


Ok, both of these quotes is really what I was looking for. Thanks! So, to make it more realistic for me and my budget, I will have to start out small, like get 10 kid goats, and let them breed and make the numbers grow to the point that all of 20 acres is under control, then either sell them all, or keep a few just to keep things in check. That will take what 5 years?


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## Farmerboy16

Oh, I am in West Michigan.


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## stanb999

Farmerboy16 said:


> Ok, both of these quotes is really what I was looking for. Thanks! So, to make it more realistic for me and my budget, I will have to start out small, like get 10 kid goats, and let them breed and make the numbers grow to the point that all of 20 acres is under control, then either sell them all, or keep a few just to keep things in check. That will take what 5 years?


Could take that long. Might be less, might be more. You will be very happy with the results as I was I'm sure.

Goats are a fun farm addition. But let me add a bit of caution. You had better get used to them. They grow on you. I started with just a few to clear some land.


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## Alice In TX/MO

Do not start with kids if you want brush goats. Just buy ten breedinbg age mixed breed goats.


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## CaliannG

Do NOT buy dairy does! You can buy all of the dairy bucks and dairy wethers you might want, but do NOT buy dairy does! 

You HAVE to milk dairy does after they kid. There is no way around it unless you want to see the poor thing on your property, in excruciating pain, with half of her udder rotted off and the other half so swollen she screams if it is even lightly touched.

I know a lot of dairies sell even their doe kids pretty cheap as bottle babies. Do NOT get them. Get meat does or brush does, but NOT dairy does.

With bucks and wethers, get whatever you want.


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## stanb999

CaliannG said:


> Do NOT buy dairy does! You can buy all of the dairy bucks and dairy wethers you might want, but do NOT buy dairy does!
> 
> You HAVE to milk dairy does after they kid. There is no way around it unless you want to see the poor thing on your property, in excruciating pain, with half of her udder rotted off and the other half so swollen she screams if it is even lightly touched.
> 
> I know a lot of dairies sell even their doe kids pretty cheap as bottle babies. Do NOT get them. Get meat does or brush does, but NOT dairy does.
> 
> With bucks and wethers, get whatever you want.


One thing to remember. In cold climates such as his the goats won't make an abundance of milk without lots of "extra" feed. His winter time temps and lack of pasture for 4 months at least will keep them to just enough milk for the kids if he feeds just a bit of grain after birthing, if not they may not make enough milk at all. @ -20 it takes a bit of feed just to keep warm.


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## blue gecko

Meat goats are one of the fastest growing livestock in demand. Why not make them a thoughtful addition to your farm's mixed livestock, cross fence and rotate what is already an ideal start then let nature take its course. If you can cross fence into 5 acre divisions you can get by with a small herd of goats (4 or 5) that you work ahead of the pigs a section at a time then reseed that section allowing a growing season before running cattle or sheep. After that run poultry for bug control and start again.


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## collegeboundgal

CaliannG said:


> Do NOT buy dairy does! You can buy all of the dairy bucks and dairy wethers you might want, but do NOT buy dairy does!
> 
> You HAVE to milk dairy does after they kid. There is no way around it unless you want to see the poor thing on your property, in excruciating pain, with half of her udder rotted off and the other half so swollen she screams if it is even lightly touched.
> 
> I know a lot of dairies sell even their doe kids pretty cheap as bottle babies. Do NOT get them. Get meat does or brush does, but NOT dairy does.
> 
> With bucks and wethers, get whatever you want.


Uhhh I have a dairy goat that is out with the meat goats that is never milked. She seems to be doing fine. Raised her kid with no problem. If u don't milk them, they'll only produce what they need for the kids. But I do agree with u in that the OP dosent need dairy goats. Meat goat will be more profitable for u if u want to just sell everything when their job is done. And I vote for skipping the baby kid stage and go with grown goats. Plus their aren't many breeders out there that would sell kids off the dam without reason


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## CaliannG

~smiles~ stanb, ya'll still have summer up there. The natural cycles of most breeds wouldn't have them milking in winter anyway...they would be peaking in summer....and trust me, good browse and brush makes milk. 

He should not get dairy does unless he has the desire and ability to milk them regularly. You never know what the genetics milght pop up on them, and out of 10 does, he ends up with one that has the will to milk and the genetics to fill a couple of buckets. Then what does he do? Let her die (because she will if she isn't milked out regularly)? Tie himself to a milking schedule that he didn't want in the first place? And if he doesn't check them twice a day, he may not even know there is a problem until it is too late.

No, even up north, better not to get dairy does.

I used to live in Colorado.  I happen to know that dairy does work even in a frigid climate.


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## stanb999

CaliannG said:


> ~smiles~ stanb, ya'll still have summer up there. The natural cycles of most breeds wouldn't have them milking in winter anyway...they would be peaking in summer....and trust me, good browse and brush makes milk.
> 
> He should not get dairy does unless he has the desire and ability to milk them regularly. You never know what the genetics milght pop up on them, and out of 10 does, he ends up with one that has the will to milk and the genetics to fill a couple of buckets. Then what does he do? Let her die (because she will if she isn't milked out regularly)? Tie himself to a milking schedule that he didn't want in the first place? And if he doesn't check them twice a day, he may not even know there is a problem until it is too late.
> 
> No, even up north, better not to get dairy does.
> 
> I used to live in Colorado.  I happen to know that dairy does work even in a frigid climate.



:shrug:, Mine naturally give birth in late December/ early Jan. This year it was early December... The only boys were slightly higher than my knee. Sporting fellas.  If I don't milk they pretty much slow to a stop in 3-4 months. Still weeks from pasture.


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## CaliannG

~smiles~ collegeboundgal, I don't know whether to offer my condolences to you that your dairy goat is not a high producer, or my congratulations that you have a dairy goat that fits in well with your meat goats and you can therefore treat her like a meat goat. 

We're getting into springtime, so there will be plenty of threads by people who have dairy goats that they have left the kids on to keep them eased, and don't know why their dairy goat is coming up with a swollen, hot, enlarged udder and acting miserable.

He's better off not taking the chance...especially since "cheap kids" generally means the kid crop at a local dairy. And those goats are selected for nothing BUT production.

Dairies are bred to make milk...and most of them are very, very good at it, and make far more than their kids will ever eat. I am glad yours is a low producer that fits well with your situation. That same situation would *kill* any of mine, even if they were not fed a crumb of extra grain.


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## primal1

Just curious but wouldn't your pigs be faster and more thorough for clearing.. or at least to get started till the goats are old enough


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## airotciv

I see where you are going, but My question is do you want to keep the pastures or raise goats for milking/meat? I keep 2 goats per 5 acers, just to keep my pastures clear of weeds and brush. That is my goal, good pastures for the other animals. The goats are wethers, other than Lilly and I own them to keep my pastures in check, nothing else. I do have to feed during parts of the year, but if I let those pastures go. The goats pay for themselfs, just keeping the pastures healthy.


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## CaliannG

~sighs~ Okay, both stanb and collegeboundgal, a scenario for you:

Say Farmerboy16 listens to you. Are you willing to _guarantee_ that if he goes out and buys a bunch of dairy doelings, raises them up, lets them breed, and now has a bunch of dairy FF's that, because of his climate and feeding practices, they are all going to be JUST FINE, and he's not going to have any problems with any of them producing like, say, a dairy goat and ending up in horrible shape?

Are you willing to put your money where your mouth is, and say that if he does as you say, and anything like that DOES happen, you will replace his dead or maimed FF with one of equal age and value?

You have both been here long enough and read enough threads to know that dairy does getting all high gear in the milk production, and causing themselves all sorts of trouble because their kids don't eat enough to empty them DOES happen....and with rather predictable regularity. We get a bunch of threads on the topic every spring.

So, would ya'll kindly explain to me why you are arguing that a person new to goats, who wants a herd of "let 'em browse and pretty much forget 'em" goats, has stated clearly that that is what he wants to do...should just go ahead and get some dairy doelings, who may work out fine, or may give him a metric buttload of headaches and heartaches? Especially when there are plenty of goats out there that would do the job he wants WITHOUT any worries on that particular issue?


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## stanb999

CaliannG said:


> ~sighs~ Okay, both stanb and collegeboundgal, a scenario for you:
> 
> Say Farmerboy16 listens to you. Are you willing to _guarantee_ that if he goes out and buys a bunch of dairy doelings, raises them up, lets them breed, and now has a bunch of dairy FF's that, because of his climate and feeding practices, they are all going to be JUST FINE, and he's not going to have any problems with any of them producing like, say, a dairy goat and ending up in horrible shape?
> 
> Are you willing to put your money where your mouth is, and say that if he does as you say, and anything like that DOES happen, you will replace his dead or maimed FF with one of equal age and value?
> 
> You have both been here long enough and read enough threads to know that dairy does getting all high gear in the milk production, and causing themselves all sorts of trouble because their kids don't eat enough to empty them DOES happen....and with rather predictable regularity. We get a bunch of threads on the topic every spring.
> 
> So, would ya'll kindly explain to me why you are arguing that a person new to goats, who wants a herd of "let 'em browse and pretty much forget 'em" goats, has stated clearly that that is what he wants to do...should just go ahead and get some dairy doelings, who may work out fine, or may give him a metric buttload of headaches and heartaches? Especially when there are plenty of goats out there that would do the job he wants WITHOUT any worries on that particular issue?



I would say that he is unlikely to get anything more than a low grade goat. They will get bred @ about 7 months and weigh 50-60 lbs. They will abort. They will not reproduce the first year. Then they grow and get bred the second year. It would have had the ability to produce approx. 1/2 gallon a day if milked twice a day regular, on good quality feed. If left off heavy grain and on kids it will produce what the greedy kids will drink, about 1 quart a day. The kids will have a massive milk throat. They will grow fast. The moms will likely suffer weight loss, most likely massive the first time thru because he won't feed them the right grains and feeds they need to maintain weight, Not the right minerals, He will be late in worming, they will get a touch of mange, they wont have deep enough bedding to keep back the cold. All of this together will stunt their life time potential milk supply. It will suit his needs tho and wont have a care in the world and they will work wonderfully.

Now if he was to spend a small fortune and get top shelf dairy goats(Why?), results like you suggest are what I'd expect. Especially if he doesn't take the time to read thru the forums and learns half of what he needs to know. 



P.S. This is as you say from experience here on the forum and does not reflect the care the OP will give. If he reads and learns. He will learn all that one needs to know about raising goats is on this forum. If he has any questions... Please ask!


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## Minelson

I still say you should add horses..if anything can clear an area....it's horses :bdh: goats and cows will clean up whatever is left. which won't be much


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## collegeboundgal

CaliannG said:


> ~sighs~ Okay, both stanb and collegeboundgal, a scenario for you:
> 
> Say Farmerboy16 listens to you. Are you willing to _guarantee_ that if he goes out and buys a bunch of dairy doelings, raises them up, lets them breed, and now has a bunch of dairy FF's that, because of his climate and feeding practices, they are all going to be JUST FINE, and he's not going to have any problems with any of them producing like, say, a dairy goat and ending up in horrible shape?
> 
> Are you willing to put your money where your mouth is, and say that if he does as you say, and anything like that DOES happen, you will replace his dead or maimed FF with one of equal age and value?
> 
> You have both been here long enough and read enough threads to know that dairy does getting all high gear in the milk production, and causing themselves all sorts of trouble because their kids don't eat enough to empty them DOES happen....and with rather predictable regularity. We get a bunch of threads on the topic every spring.
> 
> So, would ya'll kindly explain to me why you are arguing that a person new to goats, who wants a herd of "let 'em browse and pretty much forget 'em" goats, has stated clearly that that is what he wants to do...should just go ahead and get some dairy doelings, who may work out fine, or may give him a metric buttload of headaches and heartaches? Especially when there are plenty of goats out there that would do the job he wants WITHOUT any worries on that particular issue?


eeeeesey CaliannG, pull your teeth back in, I AGREED with you that the OP should not get dairy goats. not just because, from what I read, they'll most likely not be spending $200-300 per kid for a quality dairy goat. most likely he(?) would get crosses of crosses. 
and even meat goats have to be wormed and given additional groceries when feeding kids, and foot trimmings, and minerals. yea, put a dairy doe out there that's bred for putting 1 gallon milk in the bucket, you're going to have a blown udder/teets. but, for goats that only produce MAYBE 1/2 gal, if they've got kids nursing, and are on just brows, I just dont see the ending like you do. it's okay that we see different. I can see how passionate you are about your goats, and I hate to see how much it bothers you when people do things differently than you or disagree with you..


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## GoatJunkie

ig:ig:ig:ig:ig:
ig:ig:ig:ig:ig:

The pigs get my vote. Goats are picky. Pigs eat EVERYTHING. The farmer I used to work for moved a chainlink portable pen with 5 pigs around to keep the brush and weeds down. It was dirt in no time. They will even root arpund to get the stuff underground.


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## Farmerboy16

Oh my, look what happened when I leave my thread to go to work and come back home to find it in this state. lol

All right, let explain my plans for each livestock that I have/getting.

Cows- I have one milk cow, an Angus/Guernsey cross and I milk her once a day(Yes CaliannG, I have tied myself to a milking schedule, and like it.) Since my cow is half Guernsey, so I am planning to buy a pure Guernsey cow this spring, and start a Guernsey herd up to about 10 cows, and expand the milk share that I am doing now.

Hogs- They are pasture raised, and plan to move them to that land as soon I am able to, but the hog herd is to stay small, not more than 5 breeder hogs. 

Goats- I do want to have a dairy doe or two, and plan to milk them, the bucks will be a meat type, and so is the rest of the goats to be bush goats for meat.

Poultry- I free range them.

Ok, any feedback?


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## CaliannG

:blush: Sorry. I fear I have been experiencing too much of "clueless people killing good goats" lately, and it has made me sensitive. My apologies.

Sometimes, you get lucky with the genetics. Had a FF from no-name lines explode on me one year. I milked her 3x a day just to keep her from being the first goat in history to actually have her udder *explode*. There was nothing in her lines or breeding that would hint that she would be that kind of producer....and she managed to do it on sunshine and air. I didn't feed her to get her to produce milk, because she was going to produce milk no matter what she didn't or did eat. I fed her to keep her from becoming an emaciated skeleton while she was in milk.

Alright, back to the OP: Farmboy, I still think that you should start out with brush/meat goats. Goats have a STEEP learning curve, but the brush/meat goats have a less steep curve. And, honestly,you become less attached to the endearing little buggers, which may prove a bonus that doesn't have a monetary quantitative.

But, you are familiar with cattle....if someone came to you fresh to learn about some cattle, would you suggest that they get some nice Brangus crosses, or a Holstein? Which would be easier for a new person to learn about cattle on? And would you tell that person to grab some bottle babies (with all of the attendant difficulties babies can entail), or for them to get a couple of adults to turn loose in their pasture? 

Lots of things with livestock DOES cross over. A lot of the issues that someone would have learning about cattle are similar to the issues they would have learning about goats, or sheep, or even horses.

~grinz~ I second Minelson's suggestion about horses. NOTHING clears a field like horses. The picture is of one of my rescues "trimming" my mulberry trees. You will notice the lush, green grass all around him that he is ignoring in favor of a tree?


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## Shayanna

Farmerboy16 said:


> Oh, I am in West Michigan.


Let me know where you are at. If you don't want to say on here, PM me. I am in Manton, but make frequent trips down to GR and will have some good, meaty, mixed breed babies here soon for cheap. If interested, I might lend out some goats for brush clearing if you are close enough in the future.

And its always good to know more goat people! Even future goat people!


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## southerngurl

Another thing to keep in mind, you don't want the goats to totally wipe out all your brush and "weeds". Many of these are nutritional powerhouses that your cattle will nibble at and will supplement their nutrition. Also, a few bits of "stuff" around the place will support some beneficial wildlife. For example, wild birds will eat grasshoppers and ticks.

I would start with 5 per acre and go from there- expecting to lower that number. But most of my goats eat like little black holes.


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## Farmerboy16

CaliannG- Apologies accepted.  Thank you for all the info that you have shared, I learned a bit already. 

Shayanna- I am in Sparta, you will have to pass me in order to get to Grand Rapids, so I am only a few miles out of your way! What kind of mix breeds do you have?


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## Shayanna

alpine/fainters. from the looks of it onyx (alpine doe) is starting her own herd. she is big as a house. the father was a very large/stocky fainter. another doe we had but sold just had his kids and they were two 8 lb doelings.


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## GoatJunkie

Are ya gonna leave us alone with this now too as ya go off to work, Farmerboy? *laffin*


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## goateeman

A DAIRY GOAT THAT IS NOT MILKED WILL RAISE AND WEAN HER KIDS AND DRY UP ON HER OWN, THAT'S NATURES' WAY OF DOING THINGS. JUST BECAUSE YOU HAVE A DAIRY BREED OF GOATS DOES NOT MEAN THAT YOU HAVE TO USE THEM AS MILKERS.:hammer:


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## southerngurl

Goateeman, depends in how strong her will to milk is and how many babies she has. I agree most will not have trouble drying up when the babies are weaned, however, the real danger would be in the first few weeks. That's when the babies dont eat enough yet to keep up with production- especially a single. This could easily cause mastitis.


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## Shayanna

goateeman said:


> A DAIRY GOAT THAT IS NOT MILKED WILL RAISE AND WEAN HER KIDS AND DRY UP ON HER OWN, THAT'S NATURES' WAY OF DOING THINGS. JUST BECAUSE YOU HAVE A DAIRY BREED OF GOATS DOES NOT MEAN THAT YOU HAVE TO USE THEM AS MILKERS.:hammer:


This is very rude. and off topic. The reason that Caliann said that is because DAIRY BREEDS, were SELECTIVELY BRED to produced more milk than their kids need. So yes, I guess if a dairy breed doe has quads, or quints, and doesn't reject any, then she might be alright strictly dam raising. But one or two kids, with a doe bred for high production, could still possibly produce TOO MUCH MILK, causing a PAINFUL, overful udder, that can yes, EXPLODE. If you want more information about overfull udders, look up pictures of does that now need to wear BRAS, because of poor management. Or ask Caliann about her poor doe that she adopted. She is speaking from experience, and apologized for jumping ahead of herself. But when you do see does that have been poorly managed and are suffering from it, it is easy to get defensive on the animal welfare side of it.

Farmerboy, sorry to get so off topic on your post. There is no reason why you couldn't get a dairy breed as long as you plan on consistently milking. If you have a dairy doe, or a couple of them, you could always breed them to meat bucks for bulky babies. Or get nubians, who are a dairy breed, but have a meatier build than alpines or saanens, and produce slightly less by breed standard (from my understanding.) And nubians are EASY to find throughout Michigan. Everyone seems to have/want them.


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## Alice In TX/MO

Can you tell that goat people are passionate?


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## Laura Workman

GoatJunkie said:


> ig:ig:ig:ig:ig:
> ig:ig:ig:ig:ig:
> 
> The pigs get my vote. Goats are picky. Pigs eat EVERYTHING. The farmer I used to work for moved a chainlink portable pen with 5 pigs around to keep the brush and weeds down. It was dirt in no time. They will even root arpund to get the stuff underground.


I'll second this. You already have the best clearing animals around. My Dexters were pretty good brushers, and if your cattle are too, I'd run them through a portion of the property, then follow with pigs in fairly small pens. Fifteen pigs should make a quarter acre look pretty well tilled in fairly short order. Then follow with chickens to level things out a bit.

If you want goats for milk, get good ones, and make sure they're disease free.


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## Farmerboy16

GoatJunkie said:


> Are ya gonna leave us alone with this now too as ya go off to work, Farmerboy? *laffin*


lol Sorry, have double shifts today. 



Shayanna said:


> alpine/fainters. from the looks of it onyx (alpine doe) is starting her own herd. she is big as a house. the father was a very large/stocky fainter. another doe we had but sold just had his kids and they were two 8 lb doelings.


So, you have dairy meat cross. When is she due?



Alice In TX/MO said:


> Can you tell that goat people are passionate?


Yup, can see that already. 



Laura Jensen said:


> I'll second this. You already have the best clearing animals around. My Dexters were pretty good brushers, and if your cattle are too, I'd run them through a portion of the property, then follow with pigs in fairly small pens. Fifteen pigs should make a quarter acre look pretty well tilled in fairly short order. Then follow with chickens to level things out a bit.
> 
> If you want goats for milk, get good ones, and make sure they're disease free.


American Guinea hogs do not root much, they tend to be grazers as long they are not confined in a small area.

I have seen my Holstein steers eating twigs in the woods, but not as much I would like them to do, hence why I want goats. 

There is an ad on craigslist for dairy goat babies. Alpine and Nubians. I am leaning toward to Nubians. Think that I might get a Nubain doeling for just for milk.


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## southerngurl

Make sure you don't end up with CL.


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## CaliannG

Farmerboy16 said:


> There is an ad on craigslist for dairy goat babies. Alpine and Nubians. I am leaning toward to Nubians. Think that I might get a Nubain doeling for just for milk.


There is a difference in the advice for "getting a bunch of goats to clear out some land for a season" and "getting some goats that will be a permanent part of my homestead".

If you are getting goats that you plan on milking for the next 10 years or so, then I cannot stress enough the vast *importance* of getting goats from a *tested*, _disease free_ herd. CL, CAE, and Johnne's Disease are the three diseases that you want to make sure that you do not have. 

It will cost you more to get tested goats, or at least bottle babies from tested dams, but believe me, it is SO worth the expense.

There are tons of people on here who have gone through the heartbreak of having diseased goats.....and they will likely be far more convincing than I am.


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## Shayanna

I've actually talked to the people from that ad. They are a pretty large dairy and seem pretty nice. They raise on CAE prevention and have a clean herd.


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## Farmerboy16

Shayanna said:


> I've actually talked to the people from that ad. They are a pretty large dairy and seem pretty nice. They raise on CAE prevention and have a clean herd.


Yup, that is them! I have their number.


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## Laura Workman

I will also mention that there are diseases goats can have that will stay in the ground for years, so you really want to make sure any animals you put on the property are clean, regardless of where you get them.


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## southerngurl

CL is the biggest one. CAE you can cull for. CL gets in your soil/on wooden things like barns and fences for years to come.


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## Farmerboy16

Laura Jensen said:


> I will also mention that there are diseases goats can have that will stay in the ground for years, so you really want to make sure any animals you put on the property are clean, regardless of where you get them.





southerngurl said:


> CL is the biggest one. CAE you can cull for. CL gets in your soil/on wooden things like barns and fences for years to come.


Thanks for the reminder! I had to cull my poultry flock 2 times to a disease outbreak, finally found a way to get clean stock, and the only way for me to get new birds/stock is through hatching eggs from trusted breeders. So, will do that to goats too.


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## Farmerboy16

I am so depressed. All of my plans for life and farming went out the window. I am in tears. The 20 acre land right next to us with that old barn has been sold. I have been wanting to buy it for more than 10 years, and have been saving money for it, now poof gone. The now former owner had called my parents, and told them the news, and said that I will have to move all of my fencing and the cows off the land by March 14th. He had been letting me use it, now I have a feeling that I will not be having a nice neighbor again. The new owner want to build a house on it, I hope that it will be out of sight, for I do not want to see it everyday, as I am used to seeing trees and bushes, rarely the other neighbor's houses. But I have been living here for 20 years, and if they ask me to do something different, I won't change, modifies it, not even shutting those noisy guinea's, geese's, peafowl's, rooster's, turkey's and Emu's mouths shut. Oh yes, not even Pancake the steer too. He can be heard bawling a quarter of a mile away when he is hungry!

Now back to the fencing, it will take me a long time to dismantle the electric barbwire fencing. My arms aches just thinking about it, and my barbwire scared hands smarts thinking of it too.

So, yup the goats might have to wait. *sob*


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## Minelson

Oh no! I'm so sorry


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## aart

Bummer!  I'm so sorry! Not ALL of your plans, just some of them. Life's full of disappointments and this is just one lesson of many you will go thru. You'll just have to refocus.

Mourn the loss and move on with gratitude for what you DO still have. Some folks wait until their 50's to have what you have now . . . and still don't have it. 

Who knows, maybe the new neighhbors are wanting the farming/country life. If you live in an agricultural area chances are there's something that warned them of that. Prepare for the worst but _hope for the best._

Why did you put fence on someone else's land? Time for some new heavy duty gloves!

Hang in there, things will get better. When one door closes and usually another opens somewhere down the hallway.

Sorry for the lecture, probably because I am bolstering myself thru some losses lately.


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## Farmerboy16

The now former owner lives in the city, he had it for sale since '08 and he had let me put up the fence on his land so he does not have to mow it, I have been using it for 4 years now. First it was for the chickens, then a horse, then last year, its cows. We only have 5 acres. Its a Lawyer that brought, which makes me wonder if he will sue me for something if I did something offensive to him. He looks like that he is in his late 20s early 30s.

I did a lot of thinking, and I know that not all of my plans had gone out of the window, but most of them. I cannot think of moving anywhere else. Where I live to too perfect for me to move anywhere else. Might take a walk on the road tomorrow to see if any other neighbors is willing to sell a piece of land. But I do know that when God close the door, he opens a different door. I might someday look back and laugh at my old plans and loving what I have now.


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## southerngurl

Sorry to hear that.  But don't assume the new neighbor will be a problem. I would seek to be friendly. It's not his fault you had your heart set on that land.


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## aart

southerngurl said:


> .....But don't assume the new neighbor will be a problem. I would seek to be friendly. It's not his fault you had your heart set on that land.


Good advice southerngurl!

Hmm, knowing a lawyer can be a good thing. All depends on what kind of person he is and what kind of lawyer he is. We only hear about the bad types of lawyers, they are just people too and some of them are good folks.


4 years is a long time to use land rent free, but ---- hard to give it up. It would be cool if you could meet the guy before taking the fence down, you might be able to work out some kind of a deal with him. Maybe he wants fence up and you coud sell it to him, or he might want cows in his back yard. Maybe you've already looked at these things.


Hang in there, look for the positive.


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## Minelson

Did the new owner say he wants the fencing down? Maybe he would be happy to have it....unless you want it to use again. I guess I wouldn't be tearing anything down until you talk with the new owner. I know some very nice people that are lawyers


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