# Need prayers and advice....LONG



## barnyardfun (Mar 26, 2005)

Okay, let me start at the beginning.......

A few weeks ago my DD5 had some bites in her pantie line and needed medicine. So I got the medicine and told her to take of her panties and lay down so I could make sure I got them all. She started balling...hysterically. I asked her what was wrong and she said she didn't want to take off her panties. :shrug: Then a week or so later she had to go to the doctor for a checkup.....doctor was examining her and was touching her tummy and she looked VERY uncomfortable and started crying. About two weeks ago she started peeing the bed at night, she did that a few times. She has been completely potty trained since she was 2 and has never had ANY accidents since then up until now. She was been very rebellious and lieing about everything....this is out of character for her.

I had mentioned a couple of these things to a friend who's DH works at an abuse home. She told me I might need to check into the possibility that DD has been or is being molested. :Bawling: She talked to her husband about the things I had said and he said if I had told him directly those things he would had to have turned it into the police. Because of his position by law he is required to report stuff like that. 

Now I am scared to death to let my DD out of my sight....even my DS3. I have been trying to make a list of who could possibly have done anything to her (and at this point I don't really know for sure anything has happened). I have ruled out my DH, not just because he is my husband, but because he is barely around anyway, doesn't give her a bath because he feels it is inappropriate, leaves the room is she is getting dressed, is very concerned about her being modest, won't sleep in the same bed with her unless I am there also (again he feels this is not appropriate).

Anyway.....I think the only likely person is my Dad. When I was younger something happened with him touching me, I was ten and my parents were split up, he said is was an accident and it was just something he did to my mom in his sleep..... I guess he told my mom and they thought I slept thru it so they never bothered talking to me about it until several years later when I finally brought it up. My DH doesn't feel comfortable around him because of the comments he makes and the things he does. He will slap my butt when I walk by or tell me how good my butt looks, etc. A couple months ago my mom and I were cleaning out a closet and found an old piece of her langerie.....Dad said he would like for me to try it on for him. I have never looked at any of this badely.....I thought he was kind of a dirty old man but he was my Dad and I just assumed that was how Dad's were. Then I got around my DH and his dad and started questioning if this was right.

ANYWAY! DH and I have decided she is not to be alone with anyone, especially my dad BUT the kids have always gone over there.......my parents have an obsession, no that is not too strong a word, with my children and have to see them several times a week and let them spend the night at least once a week. (We live across the field!)When my dad wasn't working DD would go over there and spend the days with him (again, I didn't see any of this as bad! Please don't bash me because I am beating myself up enough about it) When they would spend the night they sleep in separate beds because they say the can't all fit in one bed......my mom and DS in one and my dad and DD in the other!! :flame: So now I won't let them go over there and I WON'T let them spend the night!

I tried to talk to my mom about what was going on without accusing my dad. I tried to tell her we were having modesty issues with DD and she was not to be alone with any male, not to undress, or sleep in same bed, etc. She kind of laughed it off like I was crazy. So when she kept asking why the kids could not spend the night I told her everything and that I didn't want her around ANY male. She got all mad and couldn't believe I could think that of my dad, and how bad that was going to hurt her and him if they couldn't see the kids, and how could I do this to them, and she will just DIE if she doesn't get to see her grand babies! :flame: I WAS MAD!!! I could not believe she was more concerned about how it was going to effect her and dad then she was concerned that my DD could have been hurt!! :flame: :Bawling: 

At this point I don't know what to do!! I really want to just move away but that is not an option. I just need some advice, has anyone else been thru this?? Sorry if this just rambles.....there has been so much going on and is so jumbled in my brain I just don't know how to get it all out to make sense.  

Should I take her to a councilor? The doctor? My mom thinks I should talk to her (and I have, she says she doesn't know what I am talking about when I ask her if anyone has ever touched her to make her feel uncomfortable) and she will just blurt out who did it or if nothing happened. I am sure if anything has happened she is not going to just come out and tell me, she may not even know what happened.

HELP! :Bawling:


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## Jan Doling (May 21, 2004)

You can't be too careful with kids these days. It won't kill your parents to have supervised visits. Why was DD sleeping with Grandpa instead of Grandma? That doesn't make sense to me.

He smacks your behind, comments on your butt and wants you to model nightwear for him? RED FLAG! RED FLAG! RED FLAG! 

Tell them that your DH insists on protecting DD....let's see your dad getting past DH with his flimsy excuses!

Take DD to a counselor. IF your father gets prosecuted because of it, too bad. Her mental health is more important than covering his crimes.


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## Ardie/WI (May 10, 2002)

Oh girl, you do have a lot of things to resolve.

First of all, do NOT allow your children to go to your parents. The thought of a kittle girl sleeping with her grandfather gives me the creeps as does a little boy sleeping with his grandmother. This is NOT appropriate. Judging from the reaction you got from your mother, she knows about your father's actions and is covering for him. Let her scream cry and carry on. These are your children and it's your job to protect them.

Yes, get the child into counseling immediately. You and your DH could probably benefit from some too so you can learn how to handle the situation and your feelings of anger.


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## momlaffsalot (Sep 9, 2004)

Please trust your instincts with this. I was molested by my stepfather at a young age and he would do it with other people in the house. He would say I was going to 'comb his hair' and off we would go to the basement where he would molest me. Please, please, please do not worry what your mother or father say, don't allow her to go over there without you and don't let her out of your sight. That said, have you asked her if anyone is touching her in her private area specifically? Though I know I wouldn't have told. I didn't want my stepdad to get in trouble, so pay close attention to her when/if you decide to ask her.


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## MarleneS (Aug 21, 2003)

Make every decision based on what is best for your daughter. When anyone dares to question your decisions, simply state, "It concerns my child, I will always make my decisions based on what I believe is best for her."

If your child is/has been molested it is highly possible that the molestor has said something to her to keep her from telling, likely that either she or her parents will be harmed. Perhaps you could get professional advise on how to ask your daughter?

Your father has emotional abused you your entire life, you are an adult now and it's up to you to tell him you will not longer tolerate his abuse and disrespect. As difficult as that is to do - YOU will feel so much better when you stand up to him. It's NOT okay to be a "dirty old man" no matter how sweetly it is done.

You're a parent now, do what your heart tells you is best for your children, and the rest of the world be damned 

Hugs,
Marlene


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## Dente deLion (Nov 27, 2006)

Absolutely positively find her a counselor immediately! They are called professionals for a reason - first, they can determine whether something happened a lot easier than you can, even if she doesn't "spill the beans"; second, they know how to get a reluctant child to talk; and third, they can HELP HER.


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## Lynne (May 10, 2002)

Ardie/WI said:


> Oh girl, you do have a lot of things to resolve.
> 
> First of all, do NOT allow your children to go to your parents. The thought of a kittle girl sleeping with her grandfather gives me the creeps as does a little boy sleeping with his grandmother. This is NOT appropriate. Judging from the reaction you got from your mother, she knows about your father's actions and is covering for him. Let her scream cry and carry on. These are your children and it's your job to protect them.
> 
> Yes, get the child into counseling immediately. You and your DH could probably benefit from some too so you can learn how to handle the situation and your feelings of anger.


Listen to Ardie. 
What I told my daughters even at a younger age then your D was to *never* be alone with certain people in my family. Sad but they needed to be warned and I was a very hovering mother around these folks to make sure that they were not alone.


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## longshadowfarms (Nov 27, 2002)

Please get some professional help with this! DH is a police officer and deals with this stuff every day. Your instincts are probably right on. Get counselling for you and her, your mother too if she will allow. Go to the police. The predator needs to be stopped, even if it is your father. There may be more victims out there who are suffering in silence.


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## wr (Aug 10, 2003)

If you felt a stranger was doing something to your child, you wouldn't hesitate to take your suspicions to the authorities and if your father is abusing your child, I'm sure it weighs heavy on your mind and nobody wants to cause a rift in their family but you must get her into counselling and if she is being abused, she needs to be protected and the best way to protect her is with a conviction. If your mother is involved in any way, she should also be held accountable. It's about the child and nothing else and if someone would interfere with their own child or grandchild, other children are at risk as well. Speak up and save others from your grief and the best way to give yourself and your daughter closure is with justice.


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## pumpkinlady (Sep 3, 2003)

My heart goes out to you and your family. Please don't let your chidren stay with your parents at any time. If they had your childrens welfare at heart they would respect your wishes and do anything you say.


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## teresab (May 25, 2005)

I Would Move!!!!!


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## Hears The Water (Aug 2, 2002)

Barnyardfun:
First let me start this out with a great big hug for you. This is hard. I have been down this road, and I remember the reeling feeling you get because everything you have known is turned upside down. You are thinking and feeling things that are the stuff of every parent's nightmares. Take a deep breath. Let me tell you about what happened to Devon and then I will tell you what I would do in your situation.

When Devon was 7 years old I started noticing things that didn't make sense. to me. She was scared of things just over night. She wouldn't ride elevators and was terrified of bees. She would have what I call "sick headaches", a bad headache that only ended in her throwing up. She went from being a lively, vivacious child to a scared, angry sullen one. My gut told me that something had happened. I felt that she had been molested. I went to our nurse practitioner who was also a friend. I revealed my fears to her. I said that I thought it was my dad that had hurt her. I came to this conclusion because the only men she had been around were my dh, my dad, my brother and my paternal uncle and my maternal uncle Don. Of all of those, I thought it would have had to have been my dad. The last person I thought it would be was Don. So, our nurse examined Devon and asked her her papa had hurt her and Dev said no. I let it go shortly after that because we couldn't get any response from her. About a year later Devon finally told me it had been Don that had molested her. It rocked my world. I cried and cried and cried. I was so angry and hurt and scared and I felt it was all my fault. Don had had heart surgery the year before and we wanted the kids to spend time with him, so I would let him come take the kids for ice cream and visits to the park. I wanted the time away from the kids. I still struggle with that one. 

So once we realized what had happened, I wanted to take Devon to counseling but John didn't. I insisted and we went. Of course the counselor was a mandated reporter and told me that she would be reporting this. I already had an appointment with our local children's advocacy center for the next day. She still had to report it but it looked better for us that we were the ones to initiate the appointment. 

We went to the advocacy center, it was made for children. There were games and toys and stuffed animals and t.v.'s and the people there were just wonderful. They had to take Devon into a room to question her. They recorded it via video through a two way mirror and tape recording. The man that questioned her was a special police officer, I was very impressed with him. Once it was all over they came in and told us what happened. The finally brought Don in for questioning but they could never get a confession out of him since he had two strokes in the past year. Of course I am leaving out the emotions in all of this. We were so sad and angry and John was so mad at me for talking to the counselor and at my mom and dad because once we told them what had happened, they didn't believe us and they let Don keep living with them. My mom to this day still does not believe that this happened. She probably never will. So, that is my story. Devon is 16 now and it wasn't until this last winter when Don died that she has finally started to feel safe. If I had it to do over again, I would have probably let her testify so he would have been in prison, but then again... I was deep in the insanity of my family. People that don't grow up on dysfunction don't understand how you can become immune to the oddities. Things that other people thing are odd seem normal to you. Once I broke free of my family, I was able to see the things that through the years were way way dysfunctional. But at the time I couldn't. 

This is your time to break free of the dysfunctional behaviour of your family. From what you have written, there are things going on that you know in your heart are wrong. You know what you have to do and you can do it. Someone has to stop the cycle of insanity, and it looks like it will be you and your dh. If it were me, I would call the local child advocacy center in your area and start the ball rolling. I would also make appointments for both individual counseling for your dd, and yourself and also for your whole family. You will be needing it. Be prepared for the backlash from your mom and dad. If they find it is him, they will probably arrest him. Start right now getting ready for this. You can do this! If you have any church family now would be the time to talk to your pastor to let him know what is happening. Let some close friends know too. You will need a support system. It will get harder before it gets easier, but you need to do this for your child. She needs her mommy to protect her now. You can do this. Please feel free to pm me if you want, and I will be praying for all of y'all. Let us know how it turns out. 
God bless you and yours
Debbie


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## Dente deLion (Nov 27, 2006)

Tempting as it is, I think moving away before handling the problem only makes it more confusing, painful and difficult for the girl, and leaves any other children still suffering or still at risk.


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## barnyardfun (Mar 26, 2005)

Hears The Water said:


> If you have any church family now would be the time to talk to your pastor to let him know what is happening.


WE GO TO THE SAME CHURCH AS MY PARENTS! My parents and the pastors are really good friends......what makes that even weirder is that the pastors wife is my dad's ex wife. They all get along great now!  We have been wanting to go to a different church because my mom has some real control issues and doesn't seem to realize that I am a grown woman and don't need to give her a step by step list of what I did that day if I didn't show up to church! But, that is a whole different issue!

I WISH I COULD MOVE! I would give anything to move! But we live on my DH's families land and we owe on it. We can not sell it (it is land locked and I wouldn't want to do that to DH's dad) and my DH runs a business on his dad's land. I don't work......if just me and the kids moved somewhere I would have to get a job and then the kids would have to go to a daycare......I don't trust anyone with my kids right now. We are homeschooling also, not sure how I could do all that on my own.

URGH! I just don't know what to do! Thank you all for the advice and prayers. Hears The Water, I don't know if I can handle all that you have been thru. I am sure at some point I can summon up the strength but right now it just doesn't feel like I have it in me. :Bawling: 

How do I find a councilor?? We have state assistance for insurance if that makes a difference. 

I am just so confused, hurt, mad, every feeling possible, and I don't know which way to turn first. My mom is trying to turn all this around to be put on my DH, they don't like my DH (never have) and he doesn't much care for them. My mom is trying to say that my DH is just came up with all of this to turn me against them. She says he is a control freak and this is just his way to get me out of their lives.  She doesn't realize that I have grown up and have figured out that I don't have to take her crap anymore, so I don't. AHHH!! It is a never ended vicious cycle!

Like all of you have said, my DD is the most important thing right now. It doesn't matter if I make anyone mad or step on people's toes. Just like I told my mom when she asked me why I was doing this.....I said I would much rather over react then under react.

So from the things that I told you guys you think something has happened???

Thank you all for being here for me right now. I really needed someone to talk to and you guys are great! THANK YOU!


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## piglady (Sep 28, 2006)

Thank you Hears The Water for sharing your story and giving courage to so many families that may find themselves in this situation. I would deal with this now for several reasons. She is so young that her memories and the story will get more confused as time goes by. Also, many states have grandparents rights so you need to establish grandpa as the molester BEFORE they decide to fight for weekend visits etc. If you don't keep her away from them, you daughter will assume you condone this behavior and that it's normal. Thus the dysfunction continues and compounds. You can get through this and afterward you will be so glad that you got the help your daughter needs and you stoped this from happening to the next little girl that walks into his spider web.


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## Terri (May 10, 2002)

Look on the insurance card. Is there a number for customer assistance? Check it and see.

If there is a number, ANY number, call it and ask how to get your daughter into counseling. They will probably have a list of approved providers.

By the way, most "Dirty old men" would rather bite their tongue off that let their daughter catch them misbehaving. I would also suspect your Dad. 

UNDERSTAND! Your Dad might be innocent. And, at age 5 it is really tricky to ask your daughter what happened without asking her leading questions, and a counselor is TRAINED to do so! Your Father might be innocent, it might be something else, it might be somebody else, it might be a LOT! of things! 

A counselor is trained to know the difference. 

But, yeah, when your children see your parents, because of your suspicions, you simply must be there. Safety first.


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## ginnie5 (Jul 15, 2003)

Oh wow this must be so hard on you. I think you've gotten some good advice here. What about taking your dd to the doctor and telling them your concerns? I'm sure they would take it from there and have it investigated. Your first loyalty/concern is for your children and if you think someone is a danger to them then you must keep them away from that person. I was never sexually abused but my mother was physically/verbally abusive to us growing up. when I saw the same things starting to happen to my kids I put a stop to her being around them. Not to mention that I was so tired of still being put down constantly by her. yes i hate it but its what has to be done. and if I ever felt any guilt over it (you know the "oh she'd never hurt her grandkids" thoughts) that was laid to rest last summer when she broke my handicapped sister's wrist by knocking her down while trying to fight her. So take care of your kids. Let dh handle your parents. Dh's tend to be great at doing that whether they like the parents or not.


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## PineRidge (May 2, 2006)

Go with your instincts. Maybe call your Dr for another appt. and see if they can recommend a counselor, or tell you what steps to take next. You can't exactly go to the police and report it since you don't know (with proof anyway) that something happened.

Try not to act strangely to dd, she will pick up on it and think something is going on, and this could make her decide to never, ever tell.

I will be thinking of you & dd.


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## A'sta at Hofstead (Sep 20, 2006)

I have nothing much to add, there has been some great and heartfelt advise here.
Call the state and ask about counseling, do you have a case worker? She will be able to refer you- or your doctor can.
Be strong for dd and yourself, do not second guess yourself, for the events that led up to this, or the fall-out from it. 
Be Strong, we are all praying for your whole family.


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## Madame (Jan 1, 2003)

My advice:
1) Allow absolutely no contact with your folks unless you or DH are in the room. That means if Grandma goes into the kitchen to make lemonade with DD, you grab DS and follow them. 

2) Change churches. The pastor's friendship with your folks will make it hard to be impartial.

3) Counseling for dd and entire family...through insurance, church, social services, whatever. I used to go to one that worked on a sliding scale.

4) Take her to the doc to see if there is any physical evidence of abuse (there is some of the time, but not all of the time).

5) Play therapy can help with figuring out what has happened. If you don't know anything about that, feel free to pm me.

6) I disagree with the poster who said to ask of grandpa had hurt her. If this ever becomes as case that involves social services or the police, any responses would be tossed because they are leading questions. You could ask how she got hurt, what happened, did someone (no names) hurt her, etc. 

7) Let go of guilt. You didn't know what was going on. Now you do and can act.

Your mom sounds like an enabler. You cannot trust her to protect the children when she is closing her eyes to reality.

Yeah, your dad is a dirty old man, and no, most dads are not like that.

Yeah, sounds like something has happened, whether it included penetration or not.

In a situation like this, guilty unless proven innocent is a necessary assumption. 

Hang in there. My prayers are with you.


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## longshadowfarms (Nov 27, 2002)

PineRidge said:


> You can't exactly go to the police and report it since you don't know (with proof anyway) that something happened.


You do NOT need proof to go to the police. It is their job to put the proof together. You can start with your dr, your local social services office, the police or some others that other people have listed to get the ball rolling. It really sounds like a lot of dysfunction going around. Do not be afraid of your parents. They are using your fear to keep you from doing what you need to do. If need be, get a restraining order in place to protect your family. Sending big cyber hugs to you as you go through this terrible time! I will keep you in my prayers!


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## Hears The Water (Aug 2, 2002)

Barnyard fun. I am so sorry if I scared you. That was not my intention. But I wanted to be upfront with you. Don't look at the big picture right now. Just take one step at a time. We have state insurance and it payed for Devon's counseling, and the family counseling. Start by calling the Christian counselors in your area and ask if they take you insurance. If they say that they don't, ask if they know of anyone who does. While you have one of them on the phone, ask if they know of your local child advocacy center. You can call them and reveal your fears to them and they can help guide you through this. It is called a child advocacy center because they are there to help the child. It might be better for your frame of mind until you get to the bottom of this, to just not talk to your folks right now. Take all the time and space you need. 

You asked if we thought by what your wrote if something had happened. Yes, I do... but the more important questions is this: Do you think that something happened? Go with your gut on this one. God gives up parental intuition for a reason. I am so sorry that your family is wrapped up with your church. I do understand how charismatic some dysfunctional people can be. I still have friends from when I was a child that don't believe what I tell them went on in my house as a child. My mom was that good at making the outside world believe that everything was all OK. Sounds like your family may be the same way. Don't worry about what they think. But don't let them around your children until you find out what is what. Like someone else posted above, the people that will be working with your dd are special people with special training to help your child and you through this. Let them. Still praying for y'all. 
God bless you and yours
Deb


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## Kstornado11 (Mar 17, 2006)

Oh wow,that is just so much to deal w/,my heart goes out to you & your daughter. I know you will find the strength to do what has to be done,and it does sound like it's grandpa. Please know you are not alone in this,you are in all of our prayers.


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## wr (Aug 10, 2003)

Do not try and get to the bottom of things yourself. Should you do that, you run the risk of inadvertently coaching your daughter or the courts could feel that you have which could deny her the protection she needs from an abuser.


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## A'sta at Hofstead (Sep 20, 2006)

wr said:


> Do not try and get to the bottom of things yourself. Should you do that, you run the risk of inadvertently coaching your daughter or the courts could feel that you have which could deny her the protection she needs from an abuser.


wr you are right- she should call the authorities or get to the counselor.... NOW.


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## Heidi's_Goats (Mar 21, 2007)

I agree with taking her to see her pediatrician for a well child check. Mention what you are suspecting to the doctor. Have your son checked out as well. WOMEN can just as easily abuse.

My step-grandfather sexually abused my mother until she was 16 years old. Till this day (88 years old) he denies it. She was scared to death. She confided in many people. One of these people attempted to molest her also. My grandmother didn't know that any of this was happening. It ruined my Mom's whole self worth. She was very promiscuous. 

The only reason he stopped molesting her was because she started menstruating. Her two older sisters denied that he did anything to them. I believe that one of them is lying. She was also very promiscuous.

Please, go to the clinic!


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## RedTartan (May 2, 2006)

I hate to say this, but have you thought that he may be molesting children at the church? Is he involved in any children's ministries? I've never heard of a child molester that only had one victim.

Maybe I'm just don't get it. Can't you confront your father? Can't you ask him point blank face-to-face if he molested your daughter? Your instincts will tell you if he's lying. Other children need protected besides your own. If you think he did this, the pastor needs to know. If the pastor doesn't take it seriously, tell the mothers in church and then switch churches. If you hide your father's secret, then you're responsible for all the other children he molests.

I am really sorry that you're going through this, but you should be a lot angrier. I know you thought that Dads were just this way, but they aren't! You should be angry enough to never associate with your parents again. Supervised visits? Please! This is your precious baby and he treated her like a sex toy! Get mad!

RedTartan

Don't bother flaming me, people. I really think she needs to hear that she should be raging mad right now.


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## A'sta at Hofstead (Sep 20, 2006)

You are right Red Tartan, she should be VERY mad- but if she goes off half cocked that isn't a good thing, yes get mad, but have the authorities confront the abuser, not one of his victims (and barnyardfun IS a victim if I am reading this right)


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## nodak3 (Feb 5, 2003)

barnyardfun--OF COURSE you keep your dd away from ANYONE who might possibly be molesting her.

Something else needs to be said--you, too, have been molested. Your reactions to your father's sexual misbehavior toward you suggest that you need counselling, also. His behavior is way over the top towards you, an adult woman, and yet you are tolerating it. You suspect he is molesting your daughter and yet you are not flaming angry and moving to remove him from your life totally.

That suggest to me the possibility that you are emotionally stuck as that little girl victim of molestation. Little kids really are vulnerable and unable to protect themselves. When they grow up they learn to set boundaries and enforce them.

You seem unsure of what reasonable boundaries are, and don't seem to understand that how you and your daughter are treated is up to you, not your father, to decide. You also seem to be unwilling to let go of your dream relationship with your father and deal with reality.

Now, all that said, having raised a sexually abused child, let me assure you all that is perfectly normal for victims of molestation. None of us is wired to handle that kind of abuse. A good counsellor can help you deal with your issues so you can be a healthy, protective mom to your little girl.

And you CAN handle this. You CAN move. You CAN find another church. You CAN find real family, even if they are not blood related.

Pick up the phone, call county mental health or social services, and ask for referral. There should be free, or sliding fee, or pastoral help available to you.

The hardest part is admitting to yourself that you have been victimized. Not that dad is a dirty old man. Not that he has made some mistakes. Not that that is just how he is. He molests. He molested you. He continues to sexually harrass you. He may or may not have molested your daughter. He is the bad guy. You are not the bad person for making waves, upsetting the family, or being suspicious.

Make the call and let the healing begin. Praying for you.


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## Ravenlost (Jul 20, 2004)

Very well said nodak3. I agree completely.


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## longshadowfarms (Nov 27, 2002)

RedTartan said:


> Maybe I'm just don't get it. Can't you confront your father? Can't you ask him point blank face-to-face if he molested your daughter? Your instincts will tell you if he's lying. Other children need protected besides your own. If you think he did this, the pastor needs to know. If the pastor doesn't take it seriously, tell the mothers in church and then switch churches. If you hide your father's secret, then you're responsible for all the other children he molests.
> 
> Don't bother flaming me, people. I really think she needs to hear that she should be raging mad right now.


Not flaming here, but I really don't think you understand what goes on in this kind of situation. You do NOT confront the abuser. There are at least 2 victims here and barnyard is one of them. The abused should not be trying to confront her torturer or her daughter's torturer. That can eventually be done by a professional but this is not the time for that. This is the time to get help.


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## wr (Aug 10, 2003)

Do not confront the abuser. Once again, this may simply defeat any police action, it does nothing but give the abuser time to build an alibi or butt covering story. Go to the police and do it right off. This child deserves protection and at some point in her life, she needs to know that justice was served on her behalf. You don't need to know or have seen it happen, if you suspect something has happened and her behaviors suggest that it has, you need to go to the police. Child molestors don't try it once and find out they don't like it. As a parent, if you become aware that your child is being molested and don't report it, you can be charged with endangering your child. There are people trained to deal with these situations and they are not parents.


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## Hears The Water (Aug 2, 2002)

Nodak had it right, Barnyardfun, you CAN do this! 


RedTartan, I am saying this with all due respect and not as a flame. While I agree that she should be raging mad that this has happened, I don't think you understand how it can be for some people raised in dysfunction. If you were one of the blessed people that don't know... then I am truly happy for you. I cannot speak for Barnyardfun, but I can speak for me. I was told all my life that I was stupid, fat, lazy, ugly and worthless. I believed all those things. When I would try to change things, my mother would twist the words around to make the incident my fault or tell me that I had not said that. I believed her. I grew up doubting every decision I ever made. Y'all have seen some of that coming out lately with my parenting Devon. I still tend to second guess myself. When Dev was molested, I did all that I needed to do legally to protect her. But did you know that I still went around the family when Devon's molester was in the house? I swear to y'all that I didn't realize that it was wrong. Really. I look back now in horror that I was that brainwashed as to not think it was wrong to take that child into that home... yes she never left my side, but he was in that house. That was child endangerment, it was criminal. It finally took John threatening to divorce me to make me see what was going on. My folks had this ability to lure me back... I am still not sure how. I can understand why Barnyardfun would think it was OK to take her dd back to the house... I agree with everyone here, that it is not OK to do it, but I understand why she would think it is. She is a victim too, but now she can be the protector to her dd that her mother could not be for her when she was a child. RT, I know you mean well but I just think that you don't understand. BYF, this is not an excuse for you to not do what needs to be done. Remember, we are all here cheering for you, and praying for you.
God bless you and yours
Deb


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## RedTartan (May 2, 2006)

longshadowfarms said:


> Not flaming here, but I really don't think you understand what goes on in this kind of situation. You do NOT confront the abuser. There are at least 2 victims here and barnyard is one of them. The abused should not be trying to confront her torturer or her daughter's torturer. That can eventually be done by a professional but this is not the time for that. This is the time to get help.


I'm still under the assumption that she's not sure. Both posts she's made in this thread indicate some doubt. The fastest way to be sure is to confront. Remember, this is her father. If she's wrong and calls the police it could destroy her family over nothing. 

If we were talking about a non-relative, I'd call the police now and not confront the abuser myself. Your advice would be right on. This is her Dad. She needs to be sure before she involves police.

RedTartan


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## RedTartan (May 2, 2006)

Hears The Water said:


> ...But did you know that I still went around the family when Devon's molester was in the house? I swear to y'all that I didn't realize that it was wrong. Really. I look back now in horror that I was that brainwashed as to not think it was wrong to take that child into that home... I can understand why Barnyardfun would think it was OK to take her dd back to the house... I agree with everyone here, that it is not OK to do it, but I understand why she would think it is.... RT, I know you mean well but I just think that you don't understand...
> 
> God bless you and yours
> Deb


I do understand. That's why I'm telling her it's wrong, so she'll know. She needs "normal" identified because she's clueless (through no fault of her own.)

RedTartan


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## Grandmotherbear (May 15, 2002)

Thank you everyone who has shared their molestation story.
My brother told me my uncle was caught molesting me as a toddler. My mother remains in total denial and also took me around her brother later on in family visits. My mother managed to make me believe that everything I remembered aabout my childhood was an error. It took many years of therapy before my counselor could get me to admit that my mother acted the same as the mental patients in the psych wards where I had studied and worked.
HTW is right- these abusive (grand)parents can really hook into you and get you believe that their version of what happened is correct and you are wrong, wrong, wrong. But you're right. Normal fathers don't leer over their daughter's bodies or ask them to model lingerie. Your gut feeling something is wrong is correct. Take action now.
And yes, women can be part of sexual abuse- either by act, or enablement.
What was your mother doing with your ds anyway when they slept together.??
Keep them apart from your children until police/children's services completes their investigation...


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## longshadowfarms (Nov 27, 2002)

RedTartan said:


> I'm still under the assumption that she's not sure. Both posts she's made in this thread indicate some doubt. The fastest way to be sure is to confront. Remember, this is her father. If she's wrong and calls the police it could destroy her family over nothing.
> 
> If we were talking about a non-relative, I'd call the police now and not confront the abuser myself. Your advice would be right on. This is her Dad. She needs to be sure before she involves police.
> 
> RedTartan


She's not sure about her own abuse because she's been told by the abusers that it didn't happen. I do remember that it is her father. All the more reason to call in help because she can not think clearly about the situation. Professionals will sort through the feelings and the realities and go from there. DH has an incredible 6th sense about who is lying and who is telling the truth. It is why he is so incredibly good at what he does and why he gets called out to almost all the sex abuse cases where he works. The CPS workers will even call him at home and/or wait until he will be in when they need his help. It is their job to find out the truth, be it her dad or someone else. It is her job to let them know she needs help.


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## Ann-NWIowa (Sep 28, 2002)

I would take dd to her doctor for a full exam. Tell them ahead of time what you suspect. She might have injuries that need medical intervention or a STD. Anyone who would molest his granddaughter would not stop at anything. I would not trust either grandparent anywhere near the children. Not only would they not see them alone, they wouldn't see them at all even if it required a restraining order. Neither would I see or communicate with them. DD needs to know you will move heaven and earth to protect her from this abuse or she will begin to think it happens to everyone and that's it normal behavior or even that its her fault. Also, if you fail to act you could lose custody of your children for child endangerment. I would not confront or accuse the suspected abuser, I would get medical facts and tell the doctor who you suspect. The doctor will be required to make a report to police. If the doctor confirms what you suspect, I'd also immediately call the police or the 800 # for reporting child abuse. If your parents suspect you know, they just might make a report saying you and your dh are the abusers so I'd make sure you move on this NOW. 

You should be aware that a child that is sexually abused will often acuse the wrong person because they can't bear to accuse a family member that they on some level love or they might do so out of fear. Even with medical evidence and the child's testimony most abusers get off because children do not make reliable witnesses. As a foster parent I saw a lot of the results of abuse and it wasn't pretty. But dealing with it thru counseling brings healing.

Even if it turns out there is no abuse, I would eliminate these people from my life. Yes, its hard, but toxic family need to be surgically removed and considered dead to you. Find a new church and make new friends who are not friends with your parents. If at all possible find a way to move. There may be 100 or 1000 reasons why you think you can't, but getting dd and ds to a place where they do not have to see these people on a daily basis might be the key to healing. Whatever, my prayers are with you.


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## matt633 (Apr 11, 2007)

Oh my...my heart is breaking for you, barnyard. I honestly don't know what to tell you except that you and your daughter will be in our prayers.

I am curious ,though, I read through the post quickly so I may have missed it, but I didn't notice anything about how your husband felt about all this. Just wondering.

Also, everyone on here that is talking about disfunctionalism is SO right.....it is a disease that carries from generation to generation until someone breaks its cycle. Your parents are NOT the norm and there is nothing wrong with you acknowledging that. Disfunctional parents tend to overuse the guilt route, so DO NOT go there. You are going to break the cycle for you and your children's and your grandchildren's sake, got it? With God, all things are possible...even though this must be one of the hardest things in the world. Stand up for your daughter, don't let it go. We are all here praying for you and cheering you on.

God bless, Rachael

ps...if it is one bit encouraging to you, I'd like to add - all of this sounds like how my mom grew up, she was molested by her uncle andhas also always had a weird feeling about her dad. HEr mom - total denial, enabler, disfunctional, and never accepted my mom. Mom had a very sad, very lonely childhood and even part of her adulthood was pretty rough (passing on to me!). But, by the grace of God, that cycle was broken for her in my late teens, having a domino effect in my life. Now, my children won't have to suffer. Please break the cycle now....God is on your side!


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## barnyardfun (Mar 26, 2005)

You know, I never understood I had a problem until now. My DH has always disliked my parents and my parents have always disliked my DH. I have always been in the middle and felt completly torn. My mom would give me lectures about how I was her daughter and I was being disrespectful to her for whatever the topic of the day was and how my husband was a control freak because I do a lot of things he says. Well.....HE IS MY HUSBAND! I am supposed to have a relationship with him and we do things together! That is something that has never happened with my parents and my mom thinks he is just controlling. I love my DH and I love my parents......I can not chose. Until now. I have figured out that I am not crazy.....my parents are. 

So many of you are right. I can not confront my father (by the way he is my step-dad, has been since I was 3) because I just can't talk to them. Everytime I try to confront them about something (not this current issue) I get all tongue tied and my words end up getting thrown back at me. They are better and faster at word play then I am. They always tell me I am just playing games and I need to grow up. 

DH would be fine if I never saw them again. What is wrong with me?? Why does it break my heart to think about losing the connection with my parents. Yeah, I have been kind of dragging my feet with this whole deal because I don't want to hurt anyone. I know my DD is probably the one hurting right now and that is not fair to her. I have not let her and my DS be around then since this has come up, but I guess that is not enough is it??

Lord, this hurts so badly. I don't want to hurt anyone, and I don't want my DD to be hurt. She loves her grandma and grandpa and she is already very upset because she can't go over there. I just keep saying no their not home or something......that can't go on forever. She asks everyday to go over there. I have been trying to do special stuff to keep her distracted. I am the one who needs the distraction. I feel like I am going CRAZY! :Bawling: I think I want to go camping for a couple weeks......then I could just get away for awhile, since I can't move. There is just no way we can move. We have our house morgaged to the max and only so-so credit, self-employed, and only one income. :shrug: 

I guess I need to work on finding a councilor today. Please keep your prayers coming.


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## susieM (Apr 23, 2006)

Take it from someone who knows...if you bury your head in the sand and do nothing, your daughter will see that. And, one way or another, suffer even more.


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## HandsNHearts (Apr 2, 2003)

Those children never ***ever*** go back near them again. Not even within eye-sight of the children, period.
There is no place for even supervised activities here at all.

Were it my children, I would be seething mad beyond imagination and would be all over this. Yes, I'd be first in line at the police station. Yes, I'd be first in line at a good Christian counselor (or even a non-Christian one if you prefer)...point is these children need to get some help emotionally with all of this!)

If they have issues with your 'accusations' oh well. This isn't about the grandparents or the parents....it's TOTALLY about these children.

I know, I'm quite quiet around here and will probably just slink back into the shadows again and go back to quiet, but I had to say something here. I just have a serious issue when people start slowing down their pace when it comes to children being abused. There is no slow-down in that. The absolute priority is to protect those children from whatever comes their way. All else takes a back seat at this point.

Deanna


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## sancraft (Jun 7, 2002)

I would immediately take my child back to the doctor and have her checked for signs of abuse. I wold talk to my dd and ask if anyone had touch her privates and/or hurt her privates. If yes, she should go to counseling immediately. 

And I really don't understand why the children weren't in a bed together and the parents in their own beds. That is just strange. And why would dad sleep with the little girl instead of the boy.


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## Ardie/WI (May 10, 2002)

Barnyardfun, I've been following this from the beginning and I'd say it's time for you to get off your tushie and think about what is best for your children. 

AND, stop thinking about yourself and your parents! You'll survive. They will survive. But you children are not going to unless you grow up, stop being your parents daughter and start being a mother!

Everyday that you sit around being upset is hurting your little girl and maybe your son too. God knows what might have been done to him over there! What whole thing of them sleeping with grandparents of the opposite sex is downright creepy.

What is your husband saying and doing about the situation?


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## Jan Doling (May 21, 2004)

Maybe you can rent out your house for more than the mortgage and rent a cheaper place far away. With today's technology, even if you never physically see your folks again, you could be in touch daily via email and cell phone without exposing your children to their toxicity. You can visit your folks, just go without the kids.


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## susieM (Apr 23, 2006)

Forget about escaping, for now....just get the kids seen to.


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## matt633 (Apr 11, 2007)

I disagree w/ moving....you don't want your DD to suffer anymore than she has to. And you needn't drill your daughter. Call a counselor and get prof advice on what to say/ do, but try to keep her world as normal as possible. Just explain to her that there are some things that you need to work out w/ her grandparents (huge understatement, but not a lie) and that she is not going to be seeing them for awhile. If she seems to be missing them (my guess is she will be relieved when you give her the out, though..but if), then let her send them pictures she drew or letters. Allow them to write back and you can check it and sit down w/ her and read it. Remember...you want to protect your child and see justice done so that no one else is hurt. But, your daughter does not understand and it may be good for her healing. Just DoNOT let them around her or your son.

And don't feel guilty....it is hard to stand up to your parents and cut those strings. Just keep your perspective and remember what you are doing it for: YOUR KIDS. Besides, you don't have to be HATEFUL or VENGEFUL....you are protecting your kids by perfectly legal and moral avenues...no need to feel guilt. Look at it this way...you punish your children when they do wrong so that they will be better people in the long run. Look at it as...your parents need to be punished for wrongdoing (if they did in fact, do it...which sounds pretty on the mark at this point) so that they may do their time, and hopefully repent and change their sick ways in the end.

And, YOU ARE NOT CRAZY...just hurting. Issues like this, w/ disfunctional families are so hard to get past and that is why so few do....be strong, lean on God, and get this taken care of. Your daughter will thank you one day.

God bless, Rachael


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## Madame (Jan 1, 2003)

barnyardfun said:


> What is wrong with me?? Why does it break my heart to think about losing the connection with my parents...
> Lord, this hurts so badly. I don't want to hurt anyone, and I don't want my DD to be hurt.


Hon,

This is normal. I've been through it, albeit for differerent reasons. They raised you and are a part of who you are. This is one of those times that you grit your teeth, acknowledge how hard it will be for you to let go of the good parts, and do what is best for your children.

It's never easy, but a good counselor can help you. I'd suggest calling social services, saying that there are problems in the family that need resolution, and asking if they know someone who is free, works on a sliding scale, or will accept barter of some sort. Don't delay. 

Don't judge yourself. You are doing the best you can. And while you may not have it all sorted out, you've already removed the kids from danger and are standing fast. I have no doubt that DH will support you wholeheartedly.


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## Lizza (Nov 30, 2005)

My heart goes out to you Barnyardfun. I can feel your pain through your posts. 

I agree with Rose. Of course you can move. It won't be easy but anything is can be done with enough motivation. I suspect you don't WANT to move. More waves, more people mad at you, ect. Trust me I DO understand. Sometimes you have to cut out the diseased people in your life, like you would cancer. Just not letting your daughter go over, while you live so close to them, is just continuing the dysfunctional relationship. You have to understand your own feelings about not wanting to move. You will not be the first family that sells everything they can, put their house on the market, load up your truck, and set off. It's not like things are ideal right now, you CAN do this. Someday you will look back and wonder why you stayed for so long. 

I guess I say to move because for me, getting physically away from the situation would be very important. If I had to worry about always seeing them, when I'm outside, at the store, ect. I just feel like I would always be worried. I just feel like making a clean break would enable the entire family to move on.


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## Heidi's_Goats (Mar 21, 2007)

I'm praying for you all!

Go take the children to the doctor. You will get a referral from him/her for any counseling you both will need.

Step-father? That drastically increases the risks of sexual abuse. They feel that they need to control their victims. Please don't confront them.

Act now. Make your calls. :grouphug:


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## Hears The Water (Aug 2, 2002)

Barnyardfun, I am glad to see you still on here. I am still praying for you. It is totally normal for you to want to not hurt anyone. If you have been conditioned to believe that every wrong thing is your fault then you would believe that YOU are making everyone sad. But this is a consequence to some one's (probably your step-dad;s) actions, not yours. We are taught from an early age that our parents are the people we are to love and trust. And we want to do that. We are told in the Bible to honor our mother and father. But when we have toxic parents that are un-honorable people it can be very very confusing. That is just one more good reason for finding counseling. This is something that you can get through with help and prayer. Trust me. 

Perhaps I read it wrong up above, but didn't you say that you live on your dh's family's land? Do your parents live on that land too? Do they live on your land? How is it that they live so close to you? If they are both guilty of child molestation, you moving may become a moot point anyway, I think you can focus on other things right now. 
God bless you and yours
Deb


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## ginnie5 (Jul 15, 2003)

I too think its normal for you to feel pain at leaving them. I still wish so much that my own mother could be close to us. But the reality is that more than likely that will never happen. I know its hard to explain to the kids that they can't see grandma and grandpa. getting them in to a doctor or counselor though will hopefully establish whether or not something happened. Even if it didn't there is NO way any man would talk to me the way your father does to you. I would just explain to the kids that he had done some things to you that were wrong and you have to make sure those same things don't happen to them. I am always very honest with my kids and they know they can come to me with anything and i will tell them the truth (on their level of course). And I agree that hiding won't help anything. Trust me....there are times when in the last 6 weeks or so it has taken everything I have to not run and hide. but sometimes you just have to stand and take the bull by the horns so to speak. You CAN do this....your children are depending on you! It takes a lot to break dysfunctional family ties but once you do you will wonder what took you so long. Now I would be one of those mama's that was fighting mad if someone hurt one of my kids!


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## tallpines (Apr 9, 2003)

You have gotten lots of good advice here.

I am sending prayers


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## susieM (Apr 23, 2006)

Don't focus so much on leaving, that you ignore what you need to do for our daughter. Leaving won't solve that problem, although you may want to leave, sooner or later.


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## thaiblue12 (Feb 14, 2007)

I agre with Terri *do not * talk to your daughter about this or ask her any questions. You can accidentally mislead her and you will never have the entire truth and always wonder. My husband did this line of work for years and he has seen the parents totally confuse their kids or start to accuse them of being gay and etc and even after months and months of counseling these poor kids did not know up from down. 
Yes keep your child away. Keep making up excuses to her or when she asks go and do something fun and not even address the issue. Take her back to a doctor and get her an exam, but know this they do not always shows the signs of abuse. But also take her to a counselor, go to the county and tell them that you are worried something has happened but do not mention your father. Have them investigate what went on. But it can lead to your dad or whomever to be investigated and eve arrested. Which in my opinion would be a positive thing. I am not in your shoes so I am not sure if you are ok with that. 
If you are too scared to go to the county then you might have to pay or a private counselor. Please make sure they are trained to work with kids. 
Good luck to you and your family. This is a horrible situation.


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## Bink (Apr 13, 2003)

Hears The Water said:


> If they are both guilty of child molestation, you moving may become a moot point anyway, I think you can focus on other things right now.


That's what I'm thinking, too. If she turns up the heat under them, at the very least they're apt to want to find somewhere else to live.


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## wr (Aug 10, 2003)

Discussing the situation with the child is a bad idea for many reasons, most have already been covered but another important reason is that once you start asking questions, it's very hard to mask your emotions and while a parent may not realize it, their reactions can have a very negative impact on a child who has already been violated and is struggling emotionally. This is something that should be handled by a professional. 

barnyardfun, you are still a victim and I feel that you also need counselling. You need to learn to find your strength and confidence and that may not happen until you deal with your own abuse issue and develop the confidence to put your domineering parents in their place. Trust me, it's quite liberating.


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## turtlehead (Jul 22, 2005)

Hears The Water said:


> If you have been conditioned to believe that every wrong thing is your fault then you would believe that YOU are making everyone sad. But this is a consequence to some one's (probably your step-dad;s) actions, not yours.


Well said!!

Barnyardfun, you are doing a great job by keeping your children away from their grandparents and standing firm to that decision. It is probably difficult for you to do and you are probably catching some flak about it. Kudos to you.

You can (and should) do more. You need to quit letting your fear and guilt and turmoil paralyze you. Call around and find a counsellor NOW. Don't procrastinate any more. JUST DO IT. 

The first step is the hardest. Once you overcome that inertia you'll have difficult hurdles but things will be set in motion and *that* will be a big relief.

Please call around and get an appointment NOW.


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## WildernesFamily (Mar 11, 2006)

susieM said:


> Take it from someone who knows...if you bury your head in the sand and do nothing, your daughter will see that. And, one way or another, suffer even more.


Amen and amen! I have a sibling who was abused by an extended family member. My mom knew about it but after an initial shunning, she still kept in contact with him and acted like nothing had happened... to this day my sibling still holds this against my mom.. and I think *that* hurt my sibling more than the actual abuse.

I too was a victim and from what you say I definitely feel your DD has been abused.

Please.. don't hide your head in the sand. Do SOMETHING. My advice would be to get a councelor. Asking her yourself about what happened will probably not work because abusers usually make a threat either against the child, against the child's parents, of if the child was/is close to the abuser they will tell the child that telling will result in this loved and trusted person being sent to jail.

Doing nothing will send a message to your daughter that you condone this behaviour... she may not realize it *now*, but one day she will and she'll hold that against you. I *know* it is difficult for you, and I know that taking that first step is scary, but please, do it for your daughter's sake.

*And for those parents who haven't yet approached the issue of molestation with your children*.. please realize that "strangers" are not the only problem... most child sexual abuse happens at the hands of loved/trusted friends or family members.

Teach your children that NO ONE is allowed to touch them on the parts of their body that their swimsuit covers (whether or not they're wearing one, be sure to point this out or a child may be confused!) without their permission. Tell them that whatever happens, you will ALWAYS love them and like them. My abuser told me that no one would like me if I told anyone what he did to me, and that I would get into trouble and get a spanking.

Also, don't automatically make your children listen to/obey any and all adults just because they are older, or family members or whatever. These people have to EARN the respect that the child shows them. This was the problem in my siblings case - we were forced to give respect to and obey our elders, just because they were our older than us.

And... if something like this ever happens to your child, please in no way even hint that it could have been fully or even partly the child's fault... ever.


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## susieM (Apr 23, 2006)

Are you afraid of the authorities and their reaction?


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## Ardie/WI (May 10, 2002)

ginnie5 said:


> I too think its normal for you to feel pain at leaving them. I still wish so much that my own mother could be close to us. But the reality is that more than likely that will never happen. I know its hard to explain to the kids that they can't see grandma and grandpa. getting them in to a doctor or counselor though will hopefully establish whether or not something happened. Even if it didn't there is NO way any man would talk to me the way your father does to you. I would just explain to the kids that he had done some things to you that were wrong and you have to make sure those same things don't happen to them. I am always very honest with my kids and they know they can come to me with anything and i will tell them the truth (on their level of course). And I agree that hiding won't help anything. Trust me....there are times when in the last 6 weeks or so it has taken everything I have to not run and hide. but sometimes you just have to stand and take the bull by the horns so to speak. You CAN do this....your children are depending on you! It takes a lot to break dysfunctional family ties but once you do you will wonder what took you so long. Now I would be one of those mama's that was fighting mad if someone hurt one of my kids!


I also would be so angry that I'm be dangerous!

I was molested too as a child by a trusted relative and my mother did nothing about it. My mother may be dead and buried, but I'll never forgive her for not protecting me from that monster.

I'd still like to know what Barnyardfun's DH has to say about this.


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## countrydreamn (Jan 31, 2006)

the longer you wait to do something the worse it will get. To the point that it could come back on you and DH. Then they could take them away from you and possible put them with your Mom & Dad. 
You have to do something to protect your children NOW!!!! Don't wait anymore. Do something today. 
Don't talk to your daughter, let the professionals do it. Other wise it could be bad for you . 
Praying for you and your family.
Blessings,
Debi


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## barnyardfun (Mar 26, 2005)

susieM said:


> Are you afraid of the authorities and their reaction?


Yes, I guess you could say that I am afraid of that.

As of right now we are waiting for a call back from the person I mentioned before that deals with this stuff. He is supposed to give us recommendations on a councilor and I will try to get an appt. as soon as he gets me the info.

My DH is very hard and crude about things. He thinks they should never see the kids anymore (not that I don't agree with that) but he never stops to think about how it will affect me and the kids. He wants to see my dad in jail.....he doesn't care if it hurts anyone along the way or anything. Moving is not an option to him. Besides the fact that financially it is really not possible (our house payment is $910 a month, there is no way we could pay for two places....we can barely pay for this one.) he will not move off his families land. He really won't let someone run him off and I guess that is what would be happening in this case. For those of you confused about how we live next to both sets of parents (that is a living nightmare in itself!) is because my DH and I grew up next door neighbors. We are actually on the back part of the land and you get to our house from a different county road then the parents. But our house is actually only about 1600 ft from my parents and a little further from his. Make sense now?? Clear as mud??

You know the more I talk/type about this the more I realize how brainwashed I must be to be reacting the way I am. For some reason I just can't bring myself to want to see my father in trouble. I don't want to hurt my mom. I know if anything does happen she will tell me I am a horrible daughter and how could I ever do something like this to the family. Lord I really need the strength to get thru this. 

DD is doing great right now. She is not showing any of the previous signs (except for the being REALLY clingy! She will not let me out of her sight unless she is at home) which really makes me want to second guess myself and wonder if this was all in my imagination. 

Please don't flame me over my reactions to this......I am starting to realize that there is something wrong with me for it to affect me like it has. Just please be gentle. I am trying my best to do what is right.

So since I have the ball rolling for the councilor what do we do from here?? Will the councilor direct us on what to do next?? Will they call the authorities if need be?? URGH! I just don't know what to do. I just pray that no one else here has to go thru this and my deepest sympathy to those that have!


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## nodak3 (Feb 5, 2003)

And remember this--there is a word for women who give out sexual favors for money. You may not be thinking of it this way, but putting up with being fondled and asked to model underwear and not getting away because of mortgage and job is doing just that.

You are a VICTIM, barnyardfun, and have been TAUGHT not to rock the boat or make waves. You have been TAUGHT that your responsibility is don't see, don't think, don't feel, and most of all DO NOT TELL.

It is time to rock the boat. It is time to tell. If you do not act, and quickly, you will be as guilty as he if he is indeed molesting your daughter.

Get her to a doctor, call social services with your own memory and your suspicions, and if you have to, walk away with just the clothes on your back and let the bank have the house. NOTHING MATERIAL is worth this. FAMILY does not do this to you.


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## naturewoman (Nov 12, 2002)

> For some reason I just can't bring myself to want to see my father in trouble. I don't want to hurt my mom. I know if anything does happen she will tell me I am a horrible daughter and how could I ever do something like this to the family.


I'd like to chime in here. I haven't wanted to say anything, because I understand your dilemma of not knowing for sure anything has happened, and not wanting to accuse an innocent man of doing something like this (especially a relative)...and not wanting to antagonize your parents. But I have to tell you that when you first mentioned your stepfather's behavior toward you (but we didn't know it was a stepfather yet) I was thinking "how in God's name would a real father ever treat their own offspring like this?...this sounds like an abuser"...then you admitted he is your stepfather, and it all rings too true. 

I too was molested by my stepfather, and he was charming, controlling, emotionally abusive (made me feel stupid and fat and ugly). Children raised like this grow up thinking they are the problem (never good enough) not the parent...and they grow up forever trying to please the parent, instead of maturing into someone who puts themselves and their own self-worth first.

Your mother may just be an enabler because she won't admit to herself anything is going on, for fear of losing her marriage...or she may actually know it and is allowing it to continue, again, for fear of losing her marriage. In either case, she will have trouble with you bringing it up, and she will try to make you the one who is wrong. If she truly does not know about it, or is hiding it from herself, she will resist you.

You cannot protect your parent's feelings. The way they react to this is their responsibility, not yours. Your well-being and the safety of your children is your responsibility. Even if you never talk to your parents again, you have to protect your children first.

I'm not saying that your stepfather is an abuser...but he sounds like one to me. I and I base that on my own experience of two abusers I knew as a child...my stepfather, and one of my friend's fathers who also tried to abuse me (and many of the other kids in town). And if your stepfather is abusing your daughter, he is abusing others. And may abuse your son in the future, if not already.

I know this is scary...but you have to deal with it. I hope the counselor gets you help right away. Until then, please continue to keep your kids away from your parents.


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## WildernesFamily (Mar 11, 2006)

barnyardfun said:


> My DH is very hard and crude about things. He thinks they should never see the kids anymore (not that I don't agree with that) but he never stops to think about how it will affect me and the kids. He wants to see my dad in jail.....he doesn't care if it hurts anyone along the way or anything.


BYF, that is exactly the mentality an abuser wants you to have - "Don't tell on me, you don't want the police to come get me and put me in jail, do you? You love me, right?"

Sorry, but after the abuse I experienced I don't care who the person is or how much I love that person.. they'll be getting the consequences of their actions if they ever lay a finger on one of my children.

I went from a happy, friendly little sunshine girl to a *painfully* shy introvert because of my experiences that happened to me at 6 years old and older. Guess what? I'm STILL painfully shy... my abusers changed my life forever. I don't easily trust people. I don't easily make friends. I can't carry a conversation. I say *painfully* shy because the shyness does just that - causes me pain. I wish I could overcome it, but I haven't been able to. Part of that is because when I was 16 and finally told my mom about one of the abuses that happened when I was 6, she asked me: "Did you enjoy it, is that why you *let* him do that to you." My mother who was supposed to protect me and stick up for me instead chose to blame me. That still hurts today.

I pray that if your daughter was abused, a councelor will be able to help her through it to minimize the after-affects.

Thank you for keeping her away from your parents for now. I wish I could tell you what the next step would be after a councelor, but I don't know.

If your dad *has* abused your daughter, you have to choose who to protect. Your actions or inactions will either protect your dad, or they will protect your daughter (and possibly other children too.) There is no leeway here, it's one or the other.


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## wr (Aug 10, 2003)

barnyardfun, I know you're struggling with this but you have to realize that your daughter deserves to be protected - it's your job as a parent and her right as a child. She's not going to 'get better' without protection and counselling (if she's been abused) and they will not forget. It will affect her for the rest of her life. Abusers do not get better or simply quit after a while or loose interest, they continue on with other children. If this was not a family member, I think you might be a little less afraid to do something. Your husband is already angry, I'm concerned that if you refuse to do something to protect her, this will cause a serious rift in your family and to be quite honest, I think he's got the right idea. I'm sorry but I don't grasp the mortgate issue and the financial issues as a reason to not force change. I had to leave a very nice lifestyl to protect my kids and to this day, I do not regret having gone from a fairly comfortable existence to working 2 days a week to keep them fed, clothed and cared for. They are older now and have never mentioned being poor or living in substandard conditions but they sure have nothing but pride for a mom gave up the good life, worked her tail off and kept them safe and I truly feel that I broke the cycle of physical abuse. It isn't about where you live and how you live, it's about being able to get up in the morning and looking yourself in the mirror with pride and dignity and the only way you'll gain that dignity is if you step up and protect those who can't protect themselves.


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## RedTartan (May 2, 2006)

Barnyardfun,

Pay close attention to the way your husband is acting. His reaction is NORMAL, yours is not. You will get through this much better if you emulate your husband. Let him lead you. 

RedTartan


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## Ardie/WI (May 10, 2002)

WildernesFamily said:


> BYF, that is exactly the mentality an abuser wants you to have - "Don't tell on me, you don't want the police to come get me and put me in jail, do you? You love me, right?"
> 
> Sorry, but after the abuse I experienced I don't care who the person is or how much I love that person.. they'll be getting the consequences of their actions if they ever lay a finger on one of my children.
> 
> ...


Friend, I told my mother about it. I was five and on crutches. She called me a dirty little pig!


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## naturewoman (Nov 12, 2002)

And I was too afraid to tell my mother... so, after I moved out at 18, he molested my little sister. I blame myself for that.


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## Hears The Water (Aug 2, 2002)

RedTartan said:


> Barnyardfun,
> 
> Pay close attention to the way your husband is acting. His reaction is NORMAL, yours is not. You will get through this much better if you emulate your husband. Let him lead you.
> 
> RedTartan



AMEN!!! Yes, take your cues as to how to act from your dh. It does sound like he is having the normal reaction. You know what? Even if nothing happened, your parents should be HAPPY that you are making sure you dd is safe! Not accusing you of making things up. It is your job to make sure your children are safe. Now that you suspect something is wrong it is your job to follow through with this. I am so proud that you are seeing things differently. It sure doesn't feel like it right now, but someday soon you will feel so glad that your took off those glasses of dysfunction. It is a hard road for a while but it does get easier and it is so very very worth the trip! I promise.
God bless you and yours
Deb


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## WildernesFamily (Mar 11, 2006)

Ardie/WI said:


> Friend, I told my mother about it. I was five and on crutches. She called me a dirty little pig!


Ardie, I read your response shortly after you posted it, but couldn't respond... I was too busy :Bawling: . My heart just aches for the little girls we were, and for those children, both girls and boys who are going through this today.


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## Ann-NWIowa (Sep 28, 2002)

As a child I remember overhearing a conversation that I did not understand at the time. A woman had been raped in a neighboring town. My father and his brothers said flat out if anyone touched one of their spouses or their kids they would kill him. To this day that to me seems to be a normal reaction. 

I had a foster daughter that was abused by her mother's boyfriend when she was 10 or 11. She was so disturbed by the abuse that she "was not a creditable witness" so he got away with it. He drugged and raped her again when she was 14 which is when she came to us. I sat up with her crying in my arms more than one night. Then one night she came home from a visit with her sister so upset she could hardly talk. When I finally got the story out, her sister was now being abused by this creep. Once she'd calmed down enough to listen, I pulled out the phone book and found the abuse reporting hotline number. Talk about empowered. That girl sat up straight, called the number and made a report that would make an expert sound shoddy. When she was done I told her how proud I was of what she'd done to protect her sister. DHS was at sister's school the next day and the boyfriend was in jail. Because he had not penatrated the sister he got off with a slap on the wrist. Later foster daughter was at my sister's house and my sister called me to come over quick because foster daughter was totally freaked and screaming. When I got their I found out that the "boyfriend" now lived next door to my sister with a woman who had a little girl. It was all we could do to keep her from going over there and killing him. I felt that was a healthy reaction for her to have especially when what upset her was not that he lived next door but rather that the little girl might become a victim. Later as an adult she got in this guy's face and told him was a ________ he was.

I hope if there was abuse whoever did it is identified and spends the next 15 years in prison with a roommate named Bubba.

Also, while I hate to say this. I know of two couples who abused jointly. Not just looked the other way, but participated. 

If regardless of the financial implications your dh refuses to move , it might be necessary for you to take the children and leave on your own. That is a very scary thought I'm sure, but if your parents are the abusers and do not go to jail, I don't think you can stay where you are. Not for your children's sake and not for your own.


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## goatlady (May 31, 2002)

BYF, it is NOT your job/responsibility to make your "parents" happy and do everything to "make" them like you!!! Grow up lady and protect YOUR children, Not your parents feelings and not even you own feelings. YOu are the only one who can stand up FOR your children and stand between them and the dangerous things in the world. That IS you job - stand and protect those children. Your parents are adults and make their OWN choices as to how the act/react, their choices are not your responsibility.


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## homemom1fl (Nov 28, 2004)

Barnyard, just to reiterate, smacking your butt, asking you to model underwear is NOT normal behavior for a dad or stepdad! A little girl sleeping with her grandfather and a little boy sleeping with his grandmother is NOT normal behavior!

You are second guessing yourself because you don't want it to be true, that is normal. However, the counselor should hopefully be able to help you sort this all out. In the mean time, your children are also your husband's children and he is better able to lead you on this since it is your parents involved and not his.

I pray that God will be with all of you during this awful time and will comfort you in your time of need.


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## beulah (Jan 27, 2007)

I'm a reader, not a poster, here, but I thought this would be a good time to delurk for the moment.

barnyardfun, I know this is a tough road you're on, and my heart goes out to you and to your daughter if she has been harmed. Even if she hasn't, though, the potential is definitely there based on what you've posted about your stepfather.

If he has harmed your daughter, he needs to be in jail. Parents--and stepparents--are supposed to protect their children and their grandchildren, not do them harm. And sexual abuse of any kind is one of the most devastating harms that can be done to a child. I know so many women who suffered sexual abuse as children, and I've seen how tough their lives are as adults. It's something that just makes me plain angry.

I am not a victim of a child sexual abuse myself, but I came very close to being one in a park one day when I was eight years old. I won't bore you with the details of that story, but suffice it to say that my father was there and not only protected me but was instrumental in getting this creep off the streets and in jail. And he wasn't arrested for anything he did to me. He was arrested for committing his evil against someone else. But the police knew of him because of what happened to me and what my father did about it, and I never felt one bit guilty about where the creep ended up. He's lucky he didn't leave the park that day in the back of a meat wagon.

Anyway, I know you're dealing with a lot right now that is utterly painful and confusing, so I thought I'd suggest that while you're waiting for the counseling to start, you might do some reading. And this, I think, is a good place to start: http://www.healing4women.com/

Even if your daughter has not been harmed--and I do hope that's the case--as others have said you need to heal yourself from what you experienced.

I wish you, your husband, and your children all the best. Hang in there, kiddo. It can get better.


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## susieM (Apr 23, 2006)

Maybe your little girl is clingy now, because she counts on you to rescue her.

You and your mom sound as if you both have reacted, over the years, in the same way to this kind of thing. Please try and be strong and clear in your heart, and NOT let your daughter carry on this tradition.

Hugs, susie


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## barnyardfun (Mar 26, 2005)

My father called me this morning......I wouldn't have answered the house phone if I hadn't been waiting on a call back from the DR for my DD. He said that he really misses me and that he wants to take me to dinner tonight if I am not too busy. Just wants to take me, says it's been too long since we have got to spend time together. He says he really loves me and misses me.

I am a horrible liar and could not come up with a good excuse at the time. Told him I would have to talk to DH and see what he had going on before I knew what I could do tonight!

:Bawling: I HATE THIS! I think the Dr tried to call while I was on the phone with my father. I don't have call waiting and I had left my cell phone number too. My cell phone rang and I was too late to answer it. I don't recognize the number.....now I don't know if I need to call back or not.


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## Pauline (Jan 28, 2003)

barnyard try to call the dr. back and see if it was him if not see if the dr.'s office knows when he might be returning calls, sorry you are having to go through this and am praying that you and your children will get the help you need


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## susieM (Apr 23, 2006)

Sounds as if your dad knows exactly what's up and is going to try a little emotional blackmail.

This is your first hurdle.


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## celina (Dec 29, 2005)

this is so sad....but you need to be your daughters advocate.....

who is more important in your life, by all means it should be your daughter...

all i can say is my husband would react like this
1) if i didnt take steps to protect dd he would
2) if i didnt seek drs help and counselling he would 
3) if i didnt set the record straight with my parents that kids were off limits he would, 
4) and if i didnt get on board with the plan to protect my children i would be welcomed to leave....
5) my husband would not allow harm to befall his children (or me) if he knew how to prevent it...even if the cost was me if i was an enabler..

talk to him (your dh) and ask for his guidance, you seem so lost....you need to seek help for your past, let dh be the lead and follow his steps and together be an advocate...


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## susieM (Apr 23, 2006)

Once you 'see the light', and it clicks in your head what has been going on and what you have to do and feel about it...you might have a few problems of your own to deal with. Like depression, for instance.


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## MarleneS (Aug 21, 2003)

Just so you are aware, your stepfather is showing all the classic signs of being a child molestor. It is likely, playing the "I love and care about you so much" has often worked for him in the past, only you can answer that one, right?

Hugs,
Marlene


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## barnyardfun (Mar 26, 2005)

susieM said:


> Once you 'see the light', and it clicks in your head what has been going on and what you have to do and feel about it...you might have a few problems of your own to deal with. Like depression, for instance.


That's just great.....I have been dealing with depression for most of my adult life! :Bawling: 

Well, I just got off the phone with a child advocate. I called the Dr's office back and spoke to the nurse. She asked me the reasons I suspect this and what makes me suspect my father. I told her everything. She was very compassionate because her father had abused her when she was a child and was very proud of me for standing up and doing something, her mother just told her that that was just how father's were. Hmm.....sure sounds like what I kept telling myself! :nono: 

Anyway....here is what is going on right now.....

Nurse I talked to is calling Hotline number for child abuse.
They will aprove wether they feel her 'symtoms' are enough to report or not.
They will them contact the child advocate I spoke to (she called to tell me everything they were going to do)
Once approved they will assign an Arkansas State Police Investigator to our case.
Once the Investigator is assigned we will the have an appt at the Child Safety Center (where the advocate works) and they will do test there.

We are supposed to know more within 24hrs.

So that is all I know at this point. Please keep the prayers rolling.

Yes, my DH and his strength is what is pushing me along right now. That and the fact I do not want to see my baby girl hurt again. The anger is starting to boil up to the surface, I think the shock just had to wear off first.

I still pray that all of this is a really bad nightmare and that I am totally overreacting!


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## WildernesFamily (Mar 11, 2006)

BYF... WONDERFUL! Thank you for the update. I'm going to keep praying for your family.

That anger is a GOOD thing in this situation.


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## Hears The Water (Aug 2, 2002)

BYF, I am so PROUD of you! You did it. You took those very important first steps! It will not get easier for a while, but you are moving towards that easier part now instead of sitting idle where you where. Keep you chin up and keep on doing what is right for your children, husband and self. I am so happy for you that you spoke to someone else that is giving you positive reinforcement, we can type out words meant to help you here but it does help to hear a person's voice telling you that you are doing a good job. 

How is hubby doing with all of this? I have to be honest with you, that one of my proudest moments with John (late dh) was when he restrained himself from killing (and he could have done it too, he was in the Army) the man that hurt Devon. He wanted to so badly and would have gladly traded his freedom for that act of retribution. But he told me that he couldn't protect us if he was in prison. He was right. Your husband may be feeling similar things... do you two have anyone that you trust to talk to when you are feeling these strong emotions? 

We will be keeping y'all in our prayers.... hope things move quickly so you can get through it faster.
God bless you and yours
Deb


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## longshadowfarms (Nov 27, 2002)

Wow! Good for you! From what little you've told us, it sure seems there is plenty to go with. I will definitely keep your whole family in my prayers!


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## BAmaBubba (May 10, 2007)

I'm SOOO proud of you! I hope and pray it's nothing too but, to be honest, everything I've ready on this subject from you makes me think there is. I'm glad the system is actually getting in gear. I will continue praying for your whole family. May God's peace be on you all and may the truth be fully made visible.


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## Ardie/WI (May 10, 2002)

I'm proud of you!


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## turtlehead (Jul 22, 2005)

WOW you have really got the ball rolling on all fronts!!!
I'm SO VERY PROUD of you. 
That had to be tough, yet you sucked it up and took that first step. Now you have allies, people to talk to, who can help you through this. 
I can't tell you how happy and relieved I am that you have done this. I am almost dancing around the room.



barnyardfun said:


> For some reason I just can't bring myself to want to see my father in trouble. I don't want to hurt my mom.


Please look at what you wrote. 
Did you call those people because you WANT to see your father in trouble? No, you did it because you WANT to protect your daughter.

Are you taking action because you WANT to hurt your Mom? No, you are protecting your daughter!!

It's not like you sat around and thought "Hmm, I wonder how I could hurt my Mom? I wonder how I could get my Dad in trouble? Accomplishing those two things would really make me happy."

The fact that you want to protect your daughter does not mean you want bad things for anyone else. It's just an unfortunate thing that their bad decisions and actions are going to have consequences. Your motiviation is your daughter's well being.

I suspect your parents will pull all kinds of guilt trips. Your Dad already is saying he misses you and loves you and wants to take you to dinner and blah blah blah. Makes me want to puke. When you hear that tripe, don't hear "I love you and I miss you" because that's NOT what he's saying. He's saying "Oh crap I might be in deep doo-doo I better smooth this over real quick."

You are doing great. I can't tell you how happy I was to read your last post.


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## barnyardfun (Mar 26, 2005)

:Bawling: My mom just called me......Said dad called her and told her about asking me out to eat tonight. She said he started crying because he didn't think I would be able to make it and didn't even know where to take me out to eat tonight because he didn't know what my favorite food is anymore. Then she said "I'm sure it doesn't bother you because you don't care but it broke my heart to hear him cry and how he misses his baby girl" Then she just said bye and hung up.

:Bawling: :Bawling: 

I called my husband crying and told him I wasn't sure if I could handle all this. He said it was just my father's little game and that he is muniplitive. Then he just said "love you, bye" and just hung up!! :flame: Sometimes he is so insensitive and doesn't realize how much I need him at times. I was still balling when he just hung up. :Bawling:


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## wr (Aug 10, 2003)

You're doing terrific and don't let them mess with your head. That's all they are doing right now.


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## A'sta at Hofstead (Sep 20, 2006)

Oh byf- that must have been terrible, they sound like master manipulators, keep away.
*hugs*


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## susieM (Apr 23, 2006)

Your mom is between a rock and a hard place...and this isn't helping you to feel any better. But if you stay strong, it will also help her, in the end. She knows what's been going on, subconciously or not....and just as you are torn, so is she. SOMEBODY has to stop the vicious cycle, make it be you.


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## celina (Dec 29, 2005)

ummm you arent his baby girl...you are a grown woman....my dad doesnt know my fav food anymore....he does know my kids and dh come first, and he is darn proud of the wife i became.....as you are defending your dd, your mom needed to do that for you.....if it all hits the fan, believe me, she will have to face the music and feel the guilt

my mom was abused by her "loving " step dad from ages 5-16...she then was regularly beaten by her mother, for tempting her husband.....it was all mom's fault, even her sisters were angry, cause he'd treat mom special...ummm she hated it and him and at 67 yrs old will still throw up if she thinks of him too much....

completely warped my mom...i'm lucky i ended up with a great mom, cause it honestly could have gone either way with her history....


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## a1cowmilker (Jun 14, 2005)

I am so sorry you are going through this. The older I get the more I realize that parenting is not for wimps. Please, muster all the strength you have, if you have to get mad then get mad. You have to find something in you that will make you well up and stand up and fight.

You most certainly have never been allowed to have a voice, and trust me, your mom and step-father are praying that you don't get riled up now. They know they are on thin ice and perhaps are confident that they can get you to back down and get submissive as usual.

If a man came to your door and told you he wanted to take your daughter to bed with him would you just let him? Of course not. Why is what your step-father doing any different? It's different because he has power over you, he makes you submit and and makes you pay one heck of a price if you don't.

Thats why you have to get strong, and gear up and be ready to pay that price. 

My prayers are with you and your family.


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## naturewoman (Nov 12, 2002)

> I called my husband crying and told him I wasn't sure if I could handle all this. He said it was just my father's little game and that he is muniplitive.


Sounds like your Mom is trying to manipulate you too.



> When you hear that tripe, don't hear "I love you and I miss you" because that's NOT what he's saying. He's saying "Oh crap I might be in deep doo-doo I better smooth this over real quick."


Exactly...he's scared...maybe your Mom is scared too. They should be.

If I were you, I would not talk to your parents again until you are in counselling and can get some support, or you will be dealing with this cascading emotional blackmail, and it will just make this whole ordeal more difficult for you to handle.

You need counselling now! Not just your daughter.


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## lmnde (Sep 25, 2006)

Get mentally prepared to hear more like this from not only your parents but also from common relatives, friends and associates - probably including your pastor and other church members as well.

I am really proud for you to have taken the initiative to protect yourself and your children. It will get worse before it does get better and you need to start taking care of yourself as well - if your DH is insensitive to your needs - talk to your best TRUE girl friend about this - you need a local sounding board and some moral support there where you are.

The way to deal with future phone calls of your parents is to A>) either say: "Sorry mom/dad - I am busy right now and can't talk!" Do not let them talk when you identify their voices, simply say what you have to say and then hang up - do not let them put you on a guilt trip!

The alternative B>) is to simply hang up. You can lay the phone down and walk away from it - and come back to hang up 5 minutes later.

Be prepared that they will eventually show up at your door step to talk to you in person, if you refuse to talk to them on the phone. Again - your options are to not open the door at all or to turn them away w/out allowing them in. Ideally you ask for them to return when your husband is there with you.

I agree with the others - that until this situation is cleared, you are better off with no contact alltogether! Hang in there - you can do this!

Lmnde


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## turtlehead (Jul 22, 2005)

I'm sorry but an ADULT man is CRYING because you don't know if you can have dinner with him?  

I want to throw up and punch them both. I can't decide which emotion is stronger in me now, disgust or anger. 

You know, if they really were loving parents they wouldn't be laying guilt trips on you. Instead of being so accusing and critical, they'd be ALL OVER themselves trying to HELP you. You'd be hearing things like "What can I do to help?" and "I'm here for you whenever you need me, in your own time, and on your own terms." You wouldn't be getting judged like this.

Oh puke, puke, puke.

Just let the answering machine get the phone when they call. You don't need that garbage in your life right now.


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## Lizza (Nov 30, 2005)

I am so very sorry you are going through this. YOU CAN DO IT! For nothing else, think of your children, your precious daughter. Ask yourself if you would behave this way? I know you would not. They know that you have figured it out and they are trying everything to try and keep things as they were. DO NOT LET THEM! Be strong for your children! Think of them often!


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## matt633 (Apr 11, 2007)

BYF, just keep your eye on the goal here....don't let them do you that way. I know that even as angry as you are, it is still hard. Just focus all your energy and prayers and strength on your kids at this point. Don't even talk to them....it would be better for all.

You are in my prayers. Rachael


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## Bay Mare (Jun 7, 2007)

BYF - Think of this as a goal. We have all set goals and worked toward them. You will have to set your long term goals (moving, etc.) yourself. The short term goal is to get your daughter to a professional for evaluation and for both of you to get the counseling and help you need. You have made a huge step forward but as with any goal you can't let yourself get sidetracked or you may never reach it. That is exactly what you mom and stepdad are doing - Trying to turn you from your goal - Trying to sidetrack you. 

Do you have caller id? If not, can you add it? Usually the phone company can get it working for you in just a couple of days. This way you will know who is calling before you pick up the phone. You can choose to not answer or collect yourself before you answer. This way you won't be taken by surprise again. 

And as someone else said - if you refuse to talk they may very well come to your house. Personally I would rather put them off on the phone than at my front door for as long as possible. But I would make it short - I would not want to talk to them at all. I would try something like telling them that your family has a lot going on right now and you won't be able to see them for a while. When they call back and want to see you, refer back to that statement "Sorry - we have plans. Like I said we just have alot going on right now. Bye"

Do Not let them sidetrack you - Keep moving forward one step at a time and you will get thru this.

AngelaW


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## Dente deLion (Nov 27, 2006)

I think Turtlehead has it pegged, in both posts 98 and 109. If you don't have an answering machine, get one, and screen your calls. Can you tell them firmly, "I will call you when I am ready, please try to understand" and then hang up? It'll take a lot of strength, but I can see plenty of strength built up in you since this thread began. And I know it will be even harder to turn them away from your doorstep, especially if one of the kids sees them first, but it must be done. Maybe you need to repeat "I will come to you when I'm ready" a thousand times so it can cross your lips more easily when you need it.

Best to you - you're doing great so far - keep us posted.


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## Ardie/WI (May 10, 2002)

DH was right when he said that they are trying to manipulate you. Just ignore their little games. Your parents aren't sad. They're scared and angry that they can't play their sick little games anymore. Don't talk to them.

As for DH, he is doing the best he can. He is also the father of that little girl and boy and I'm betting he would like nothing more than to beat the stuffings out of your parents right now. He might be holding his emotions close and maybe, by doing that, he may seem a bit cold and uncaring. Don't worry about it because he cares a lot.

You cannot expect him to run home everytime you feel alone or worried or scared. He loves you and that should be enough.


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## Bay Mare (Jun 7, 2007)

Dente deLion said:


> Maybe you need to repeat "I will come to you when I'm ready" a thousand times so it can cross your lips more easily when you need it.


Excellent idea! Sometimes it is hard for me to put my thoughts into words on the spot. If I already have what I am going to say lined up and have repeated it to myself a few times it is much easier to get out! And you might want to add the word No in there somewhere. No can be a powerful little word and leaves no room for doubt. "No - not now. I will come to you when I am ready" 

AngelaW


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## Bink (Apr 13, 2003)

barnyardfun said:


> Then she said "I'm sure it doesn't bother you because you don't care but it broke my heart to hear him cry and how he misses his baby girl" Then she just said bye and hung up.


Um...they're like, right across the field. It's not like you've been sent to Siberia. I'm with Turtlehead--a grown man bawling because you might not be able to go out to dinner with him is over the top. They're laying it on thick.

I'm proud of you. Thank you thank you thank you for protecting your little girl!


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## Madame (Jan 1, 2003)

barnyardfun said:


> He thinks they should never see the kids anymore (not that I don't agree with that) but he never stops to think about how it will affect me and the kids. He wants to see my dad in jail.....he doesn't care if it hurts anyone along the way or anything. !


His reaction is normal. So is yours, for someone who grew up in an unhealthy family. You will have to deal with this emotionally over and over again for a long time. That's where counseling helps. You do not know if your dad has molested other children, is molesting other children, will molest other children. You do know that DD is clinging to you (her protector) and, as others have said, this is sometimes (not always) linked to abuse.

I'll also tell you this. Even if you tell the authorities, unless there is physical proof of abuse, he may not even be arrested. So then you have to decide whether to stay put or not.

Next step? If you haven't already done so, back to the doctor for a full exam.

Then, talk to dh - is the land more important than his daughter? Maybe you can't move tomorrow, but you could put it up for sale and start over when it sells, or rent it and move that much sooner. If there has been abuse, staying put and/or having ongoing contact sends dd a terrible message about how little value she has. 

No matter what the doc says, have family counseling. There's not always physical proof, but counseling can help with short or long term trauma.

You are in a tough position with no easy solutions. You are in my prayers daily.


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## dashley (Jan 23, 2005)

My daughter was molested by my husband her father. We are divorced and for a long long time now. I said that to say this................................ 

He acted just like what you say your Dad is acting like, your husband is right, I know you think he should be more sensitive to your feelings but I think he is feeling pretty much like most who read this. It makes him sick to his stomach, he see's right through your parents where it isn't as easy for you to see because they are your parents and you want to believe that it is possible they wouldn't do something like this to their own, but the fact is they have!! I would have to get a restraining order against them, I would not allow them to call or come to my home. What you do and how you act is important, your children are watching and they need to KNOW that you will protect them at all cost. The longer there is no contact with them the more able your little one may be to tell what happen. You really don't know what he has said to her to scare her into not telling.You and your husband need to be of ONE mind in this!! It is hard to go through this but it is good you have a good husband. Your children NEED you to be strong.


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## Madame (Jan 1, 2003)

Mom and Dad are both being very, very manipulative. They know what buttons to push and they are pushing them.

If I had a dh crying because he didn't know if our dd would go out to supper with him, I'd tell him to get a grip, not call dd and try to lay guilt on her. Sheesh.

You have had a lot of good advice from various posters and you have made some excellent choices. I hope the forum is helping you.


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## susieM (Apr 23, 2006)

barnyardfun said:


> :Bawling: My mom just called me......Said dad called her and told her about asking me out to eat tonight. She said he started crying because he didn't think I would be able to make it and didn't even know where to take me out to eat tonight because he didn't know what my favorite food is anymore. Then she said "I'm sure it doesn't bother you because you don't care but it broke my heart to hear him cry and how he misses his baby girl" Then she just said bye and hung up.
> 
> :Bawling: :Bawling:
> 
> I called my husband crying and told him I wasn't sure if I could handle all this. He said it was just my father's little game and that he is muniplitive. Then he just said "love you, bye" and just hung up!! :flame: Sometimes he is so insensitive and doesn't realize how much I need him at times. I was still balling when he just hung up. :Bawling:


1.) I have to wonder which baby girl he misses...you, or your daughter?

2.) Be strong, don't YOU go crying to your husband like they go crying to you. He sounds as if he's there for you.


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## stars01 (Jun 24, 2006)

Crying because he is finally caught?

Stay strong. You and your family deserve better.

Paula


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## grams (Sep 10, 2004)

First I want to send hugs and healing thoughts your way. I just can not imagine how all of this is for you and your husband. But in regards to your statement that your about your conversation with your husband, you might need to step back and look at it from your husband's perspective. Here is his wife, the mother of his child who it appears at times is more concerned with her parents than their child, (please I am not saying you are, just that it might appear that way to him.) Now if he is feeling at all that way then the simple fact that he can still say to you I love you is a statement of his love for you. That may be all that he can do right now. Matter of fact he may even have had the same thoughts about you that you just had about him.

Again, please don't take this as bashing you, I don't want to do that in anyway, just something that came to mind that I thought you might want to consider.


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## susieM (Apr 23, 2006)

I'm not sure that I would want my kids seeing their grandparents again, after this. I what would the visits be like? You'd want to be there and watch him, every minute of the time. What kind of coversations could ou have? What kind of thigs could you do together with them and the kids?

Try and get to the point where you don't even have to know them...pretend they are simply neighbors that you don't know. It takes practice, but it can be done.


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## Bink (Apr 13, 2003)

barnyardfun said:


> I told her everything and that I didn't want her around ANY male. She got all mad and couldn't believe I could think that of my dad, and how bad that was going to hurt her and him if they couldn't see the kids, and how could I do this to them, and she will just DIE if she doesn't get to see her grand babies!


Wouldn't a _loving_ grandparent's reaction be more like "OMG-! You think someone has got at the granddaughter? That's terrible! Is she okay? Who did it, I'll kill them for you!" and to *help* you rather than sing a few rounds of "poor, poor pitiful me"?


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## Cornhusker (Mar 20, 2003)

I just can't imagine.
My nieces were molested by their step mother's brother in law who was a very good friend of my brother, trusted good guy Uncle Leo.
The kids never said a word about it until a brave little girl in Colorado came forward. (He was the janitor at her school)
He's very very lucky he's in prison, my brother is one of those who could turn bones to powder, and is very protective of his daughters.
I don't understand the mindset of child molesters, but I have read it's almost a contageous disease, that is to say most child molesters are men who were molested as children. Trusted Uncle Leo had apparently been molested as a child, but still won't tell anybody who it was. He just told his dad "It doesn't matter and it doesn't excuse what I did".
Reading down through this thread, it would seem it's a lot more common than most people think?
BYF, you have our prayers that your kids will be ok, and if someone did molest them he will be punished.
Personally, I think all child molesters should be staked to an ant hill and left to die a slow painful death.
You've got some good advice here and sounds like you are on the right track.


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## Shepherd (Jan 23, 2005)

Barnyardfun I am so sorry for what you (and others) have been thru in the past and what you're going through now. May God give you the strength and wisdom you need to get through these trying times.

I don't remember you mentioning the ages of your children. Don't forget your son should probably be checked out too by experts to determine if anything's going on there. 

Getting angry at this situation now is a GOOD thing because it will help you focus on what's important - the safety of your children. I'm so proud of you that you have set things in motion. Having those initial doubts, concerns, emotions... they're all typical reactions. It's only human. Makes you wonder how your own parents could do something like this (if they did). It's possible nothing happened, or it could be someone else, but let's face it.... the grandparents splitting up in beds with children of the opposite sex is VERY strange and in my opinion, out of line. Why would they do that? Depending on their ages, the kids could just stay in the same bedroom together. 

Had you not sought help right away, you could have risked losing your children - as was pointed out by others earlier. Lean on your husband and listen to your motherly instincts. Your first priority is to your children, not your mother, not your father. If they were truly loving, intelligent parents, they would be proud of you for taking such proactive measures immediately to protect your children until you can rule some things out. Find a new church as soon as possible so you have some spiritual support.

Do not worry about other things right now like moving, etc... unless "flight" is absolutely necessary for the safety of the children. Right now you need to focus on one step at a time. You've taken the first couple of steps; realizing there could be a serious problem and taking action by contacting authorities. 

For their sake and yours (as parents), do not allow them to go to your parents' house or be with them alone at any time until you're advised it's safe by authorities... and even then, discuss it with your husband first and go by your gut feelings. Whoever your case worker/advisor ends up being, you need to ask them what is expected of you with regard to your parents so you'll know how to handle various situations... such as if they were to show up at your door to visit.

And if you're caught off guard, I would consider just flat out telling them "We're going thru some troubling times with the kids and you're going to have to understand that for awhile, they won't be coming to your house to visit. I hope you'll try and understand our first priority is the kids and their well being. And for future reference Dad, do NOT pat me on the behind anymore or make strange comments about me trying on lingerie for you... frankly I've always thought that was WAY out of line and I don't wish to hear it anymore, let alone have anyone else (particularly my kids) hear it."

Your husband is right about your parents being manipulative.... they both sound like pros! And as others said, don't get angry at your husband for being what you consider insensitive. You never know what he had going on at the moment you called. And as far as your parents trying to manipulate you? They've only begun. So talk to an advisor on how best to handle them, considering how close they live to you. Practice what you'd say to them and how you'd handle each different situation; discuss it with your DH so you have things already worked out in your mind before you encounter them.

~~~
Beulah - welcome to the forum!


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## barnyardfun (Mar 26, 2005)

The state invesitgator just left. We talked about everything that has been going on and stuff. I have to take the kids to the safety center at 1:30 today. My little sister in-law has to go to because she has been around him at times. The say they have a really neat playroom for the kids to play in and they will ask them questions in there. Depending on the answers to those questions they will know wether or not to do a physical exam. 

I will let you know more when I get back.

Please pray. I hope if anything has happened that my daughter will open up and let them know. They say since she is 5 that she is at the breaking point and it could go either way.


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## Hears The Water (Aug 2, 2002)

BYF, you and your whole family will be in our prayers today. 

_Heavenly Father, watch over this family today and give them your peace, your strength and your determination to do what is best for everyone. Please Father give the advocates wisdom and caring as they question the children. Lord please grant this family your healing. Amen._ 

God bless you and yours
Deb


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## turtlehead (Jul 22, 2005)

I know today must be super stressful for you. I'm so glad you're getting help and advice from people who are experienced with this. They'll know what to look for and how to advise you. 

You're a very strong woman and your children are fortunate to have you taking care of them. You're observant, not afraid to question, and strong enough to do what's right.


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## texastami (Sep 13, 2002)

I am praying very hard for you and your family right now! ((((HUGS))))


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## ginnie5 (Jul 15, 2003)

praying that all goes well.


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## Madame (Jan 1, 2003)

Saying prayers - and applauding your courage in dealing with it all.


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## Pauline (Jan 28, 2003)

Hears The Water said:


> Heavenly Father, watch over this family today and give them your peace, your strength and your determination to do what is best for everyone. Please Father give the advocates wisdom and caring as they question the children. Lord please grant this family your healing. Amen
> God bless you and yours
> Deb


i am sending this prayer up as well , thank you deb for posting it as it says it so well barnyard i will keep you and your family in my thoughts and prayers as you go through this .


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## homemom1fl (Nov 28, 2004)

Praying here also. If she doesn't end up giving them info, you should still keep them away from your parents. Your dad's behavior is not normal and he should not be around children. I know that is hard to hear but as you know, you need to protect them and you are doing a great job now, keep it up!


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## naturewoman (Nov 12, 2002)

They say five is at the breaking point, so remember...at that young age, this may not be as traumatic for her later in life, if it is stopped now. Just think about what this could do to her (if in fact she has been molested) if it continued throughout her childhood. You may be saving her future for her by your actions. I was older when it happened to me and I remember every detail, and have emotional scars to this day.

I know this has been hard, and frightening. I'm so relieved you are getting the help you need.


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## goatlady (May 31, 2002)

Hang in there, Woman - you ARE doing the right things and are standing and proteting YOUR daughter! Dig deep within yourself and the strength WILL be there, gal.


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## MarleneS (Aug 21, 2003)

Please, as Gram has advised, don't be too hard on your husband. If you think about what the men just on this thread have said, he's doing an excellent job of keeping himself in check - and that might be all that he can handle at this time. Be proud, that even in the middle of what is likely the greatest anger he has ever had to deal with, he managed to let you know he loves you -- that's amazing when you consider he's a man who believes protecting his family is all important 

You know, even if it turns out to not be as terrible as you think, if your parents are anything but kind and understanding to you, as in telling you they are proud of you for having the courage to do whatever you feel was best for your daughter; you might want to start working the the realization that they are not the mature, responsible people you hope them to be.

I too am so very proud of you.

Marlene


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## Ravenlost (Jul 20, 2004)

My heart goes out to you and your children.


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## barnyardfun (Mar 26, 2005)

Well, we spent most of the day Friday at the center. They interviewed my DD and my little sis-in-law. They didn't come up with anything. Like they said she is at the breaking point in age wether they can communicate about it our not. Given the circumstances the cops went out to my parents house that night to interview them. Boy oh boy were my parents HOT! :flame: 

I don't know what the cops came up with from that interview....they never called me back. My mom has tried to call a few times and I won't answer. My DH had to go over there yesterday to get some food we ordered that they had brought home with them. I refused to go over there. My DH said he about got into a fist fight with my mom because she was screaming and yelling and wouldn't get out of his face. (And this comes from my DH who does not believe hitting a woman is right!) Finally he was able to get away and came directly home and loaded me and the kids up for fear they would come over here. We have not got to be home for the past two days because we are afraid they will show up here and want to fight. 

The cops wanted me to press charges on my father because of what he did to me. In the law it states any offense that happens under the age of 18 can be reported up to 6 yrs after the victim turns 18. I am 24. I have to January to make a case if I want to. I would do it in a heart beat if it was my daughter that had gotten hurt, and we can't prove that right now, and I just can't bring myself to do it just because of me.

They also said that if my mom continues to call me and I fear that she will make contact with me and I don't want it then I can file harassment charges and get a do not contact order. I think I may have to do that. I have figured out that I can not continue in this relationship with my parents. It is unhealthy and I just can't handle it anymore. I also can not continue to live in this state of fear waiting for them to show up at anytime. I know that they are going to wait until they know my DH isn't home because they know that is my weakest state. I haven't let my DH out of my sight. I am just scared plum to death, not so much physically but most definitely mentally. I just can't do it! :Bawling: 

So that is all of it in a nutshell. Right now I don't know what is going on, or what is going to become of it all. Please keep praying, we really need all the prayers we can get.


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## countrymommyof3 (Feb 24, 2007)

barnyardfun said:


> The cops wanted me to press charges on my father because of what he did to me. In the law it states any offense that happens under the age of 18 can be reported up to 6 yrs after the victim turns 18. I am 24. I have to January to make a case if I want to. I would do it in a heart beat if it was my daughter that had gotten hurt, and we can't prove that right now, and I just can't bring myself to do it just because of me.


Barnyardfun, you deserve the protection and justice as much as your daughter does. You are just as special! ` Lots of prayers for you and your family.


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## Shepherd (Jan 23, 2005)

Oh hon, I'm so sorry for what you're going through. Where are you staying? With your husband's family? Did they give you a phone number to call if anything else happens or you have questions? If so, maybe you could call and update them, and ask for an update from their end. Let them know the trauma this is all causing and ask for advice.

Cyber hugs to you - and prayers! Keep us posted.


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## barnyardfun (Mar 26, 2005)

Shepherd said:


> Where are you staying? With your husband's family? Did they give you a phone number to call if anything else happens or you have questions? .


We live across the field from my inlaws and my parent. My parents house is around 1600 ft from my house. They can't see my house but they are not far away. You have to go on a different county road to get to their house but they are still not far by way a crow flies.

We have been spending a lot of time at the inlaws because I know my parents would NEVER come over there. They hate my inlaws.....maybe because they are normal. :shrug: The rest of the time we have just been driving.....no where in particular.....just anywhere but here. We can't keep this up much longer. I am so tired of going and going and not being home. The kids are wore out too. We are just taking our chances and will stay home tonight. The kids can't spend another evening away from home, they need the rest.


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## Cheryl in SD (Apr 22, 2005)

Barnyard, about pressing charges. You know what he did to you. It is very likely that even if he has not hurt your dd yet (and from what you told us, he either has or came close enough to upset her) he is very likely going to in the future. A child molester won't stop until something outside himself stops him. If he gets away with it for you, he will molest someone else, it could be your dd, it could be your sil, it could be someone else. You have the power to stop any other little girl being hurt at his hands. God bless you. You can do this.


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## AngieM2 (May 10, 2002)

Just a thought.

If you do press charges, you will be able to live in your house without worry of meeting up with your parents - at least for awhile.

I think you need to stand up for the child you were, but do what is best for you and your family and maybe a councellor would help you figure yourself and what is appropriate for you and yours out,

Very much good luck.
Angie


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## Callieslamb (Feb 27, 2007)

barnyardfun said:


> The cops wanted me to press charges on my father because of what he did to me. I


BYF - I haven't chimed in on this, but I have read every post. You have done so well. This is, to me, the ultimate tragedy a family can face. You are doing so well, you might not think or feel so, but you are. You are facing the lion now! Just stand firm until you know what you need to do next. It sounds like you have some time to decide what to do about your own incident. Remember -the police LOVE to capture these kinds of crooks. A case might not be made with your daughter since she is so young but the police will not force or overly encourage you to bring that charge against your father - that is not their role and it has to be your decision. Rememeber, they have seen a lot of this and know what is what and can probably see the signs -but it is up to you. That is between you and your DH. (It is NEVER NORMAL for a grandfather to sleep with his granddaughter - NEVER! NEVER! NEVER!) That would be enough for me to press charges, even if nothing came of those charges. 



barnyardfun said:


> They also said that if my mom continues to call me and I fear that she will make contact with me and I don't want it then I can file harassment charges and get a do not contact order.


Remember you are not the one that caused this. Your father and your mother are. She wasn't strong enough to stand up and say, "NO!". You are changing the future of your family - that is a wonderful thing. But I know how uneasy it is. You do what you have to do. Honestly, this may be the only way to let fresh air into your family. Be glad you discovered this (at least but probably more) danger to your daughter before it was too late!!!!! Be so thankful!

As for your DH - when my DD was abused by a man, I prayed that I wouldn't see him on the street because I couldn't say for sure if I would run him down or not. Truly- I didn't know what I would do. For a person to harm those that cannot protect themselves and even more so, those that love the abuser is the ultimate betrayal. Your DH knows that and to have those HE Loves so harmed is almost unbearable. He has to have been going out of his mind through all this also. I totally agree with every post that said - HIS reaction was normal. I hope he is doing better now and you have a wonderful relationship. 

My DN was forced to sleep with his father until he was 19 yrs old after my DS divorced him. That was over 5 years. I told my family over and over that this wasn't normal. The father favored this son over the others. Bought him things (ALARM!) that he didn't buy the others - like cars. Never made him do chores, etc. (ALARM). But I couldn't convince my family that this wasn't good for this DN. Now the DN lives in a group home for the mentally ill - they can't quite hit on his diagnosis or get the right medicine for him....duh! Because the son still denies anything happened. Then he will say, he loves his dad and doesn't want to hurt him. This BIL abused another sister for years - proven. My parents wouldn't do anything about it..... He abused my DSister - that he was married to, which is why she divorced him. Some families just don't get it. I don't leave my kids with my family. EVER. My parents wouldn't abuse - but they won't protect them either. A proven fact. And I have to ask why they wouldn't do anything about it????? With that small sign of a risk - I had a choice I had to make. I will do anything I have to do to keep my kids safe from those that they cannot protect themselves from. It is my responsibility. Some traditions are better off not passed on.

Your road will be long and hard. But it will be worth it in the end when you see your daughter being happy and living a normal life. My prayers are for you and your family.


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## Ann-NWIowa (Sep 28, 2002)

I know it is terribly hard but I pray you will find the courage to file the charges against this pervert. If he isn't locked up he will hurt someone else. In fact, I'd bet that he already HAS. These perverts choose their victims carefully ... someone who they can control ... someone who would not be a creditable witness ... someone who fears rocking the boat. I say sink his nasty little boat. With any luck he'll spend the next 15 to 20 years behind bars.

Go to an attorney and have him send a certified letter to your mother and step-father telling them they are not to contact you or any member of your family in any way, not come onto your property, not to speak to you if you run into each other on the street. No contact, absolutely none. Then have the attorney send a copy of the letter with proof they received it to the local sheriff, police, etc. If they attempt to contact you, keep a record of time and how and what was said. If they call hang up, do not engage them in conversation. No matter how they try to contact you document it and do not engage with them. Hang up, shut the door, walk away. If they persist, take your documentation to your attorney and tell him you want a restraining order. Remember they do not have control of you, you do not have to respond to them and if they threaten you in any way immediately call 911. 

They have had control of you mentally and emotionally for a long long time. They have to be very frightened now that you have taken control and its probably very frightening to you too. Do not let them intimidate you again. BTW if you do not follow thru with charges, they will believe they're still in control.


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## dashley (Jan 23, 2005)

I sure wish we could all come there and sit with you when your husband couldn't be there!! Do you have anyone that can? You need people all around you who can help you keep your cool and give you strength to deal with what ever comes. It certainly will not be good to get into any kind of argument with your parents with your Children watching or listening. I feel sure if your parents get to you there will be loud words, you really just don't need this now!! I pray for you and your Children to be protected from anything harmful!!! God bless you!! I know personally how hard this is for you. If you find your self alone and having to deal with anything at all just know that all of us here are right behind you and praying for you and backing you up!!!!

You have done the right thing!!! I KNOW it is hard for you to see this at times but you have done the right thing!!!


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## longshadowfarms (Nov 27, 2002)

I will continue to pray for you and your whole family! If you continue with the counselling they can help you through deciding whether or not to press charges. It might be worth it for the sake of your daughter. If she isn't quite of an age right now to understand, she might better understand in another year or two. If you've had the strength to go through it now it will make it that much easier for her if it comes to that down the road. As others have said, there are likely other victims out there that may come forward once they realize they are not the only ones. Just some thoughts.


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## susieM (Apr 23, 2006)

It must be very frustrating for the poice to try so hard to have documentation for previous abuse in order to finally get the guy, when he does it with yet another...and then have the victim back down.

Backing down and running away for days is not the answer, and it teaches the kids the wrong way to deal with this.

I understand the shock and denial, but it ain't gonna go away, and you are going to have to learn to live, in spite of it all...if only for the kids' sake.


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## Terri (May 10, 2002)

It would seem that proof is lacking, here. And so, would it matter if she DID complain? I do not know.

I am not the person on the spot, and if she does not choose to post everything, that is OK.


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## barnyardfun (Mar 26, 2005)

I wouldn't think it would be much of a case if I did decide to press charges. It would just be my word against his, well my mom's too since she knew about it. My DH said that when he was over there they were very nervous acting.....my mom wouldn't even let my father come out of the house! :shrug: 

I have yet to hear anything from the Child Safety Center people. Just waiting to find out what is next. I imagine they will just say there is no evidence of anything and just to inform them if anything changes.


PS.... Just called and my child advocate is out for the day...won't be back until tomorrow. ARGH! The weekend was long enough...now I have to wait till tomorrow! :grump:


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## Hears The Water (Aug 2, 2002)

BYF, you need to make a plan as to what you are going to do if your mom or dad come over and dh is gone. The chances are that they will. We just always kept the doors locked in our house and when my dad would come over we would just go into an interior room of the house and wait until he was done jumping up and down on the porch, yelling and cussing at us. One time I had the chain locked but not the knob and he tried to come into the house. I threatened to have the sheriff come out. I did call the sheriff later and was advised to put up "NO TRESSPASSING" signs because then if he came on our property again after that I could call the sheriff and it would mean the difference between trespassing and criminal trespass. I don't know if that would apply here for y'all or not. I found out just recently that at that time my kids had a plan... on birthdays and holidays (the days that my dad was most likely to come out) they would sit in the jungle gym all day... they had it all worked out... Devon would run to the house to get me and John would find Bailey and get her in the interior room. They were only 8 and 9 at that time. :Bawling: My point here... is that if you are prepared it will be easier to do what needs to be done. Getting caught by surprise is not a good thing. Can you call your in-laws to come help you if your parents show up? Just a thought. 
God bless you and yours
Deb


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## barnyardfun (Mar 26, 2005)

Thank you HTW, your help has been very much appreciated!

I do have a plan! :dance: I have spent the morning covering the windows with blankets (double good, no one can see in and keeps more heat out!) and the doors have stayed locked. My truck is hidden and when the kids go outside (which they don't want to a whole lot because it is so hot!  ) they have a two way radio that I keep a check on them and they know to radio me if they see someone and to immediately get in the house! I told them I didn't care who is was their daddy, memaw and papa, etc. get in the house NOW! They think it is a game and are fine with it. They don't seem to notice anything is different. They have even quit asking to go to my mom and dads! :hobbyhors For now anyway.

Oh! And DH works across the field at the inlaws house. He could be here in 2 minutes by way of a 4-wheeler. I think I am going to be okay. My mom has not tried to call me since Saturday so I guess we just wait and see.


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## susieM (Apr 23, 2006)

barnyardfun said:


> I wouldn't think it would be much of a case if I did decide to press charges. It would just be my word against his, well my mom's too since she knew about it. My DH said that when he was over there they were very nervous acting.....my mom wouldn't even let my father come out of the house! :shrug:
> 
> I have yet to hear anything from the Child Safety Center people. Just waiting to find out what is next. I imagine they will just say there is no evidence of anything and just to inform them if anything changes.
> 
> ...


"Your word against his" just as it is your daughters' word against his.


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## barnyardfun (Mar 26, 2005)

susieM said:


> "Your word against his" just as it is your daughters' word against his.


Yeah but my situation was from years ago. I would be afraid that they would try to say that I was lieing and just trying to get him for something since I don't have any proof he did anything to my DD. And I guess I keep asking myself.....What if it really was an accident? :shrug:


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## Bink (Apr 13, 2003)

barnyardfun said:


> Yeah but my situation was from years ago. I would be afraid that they would try to say that I was lieing and just trying to get him for something since I don't have any proof he did anything to my DD. And I guess I keep asking myself.....What if it really was an accident? :shrug:


If it "really was an accident", he wouldn't keep making inappropriate comments and ask you to model lingerie.

Yeah, they (your parents) probably *will* try to say you're lying and just trying to "get him for something". But really, what on earth would you be trying to "get" him for? What could it possibly profit you to lie?


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## susieM (Apr 23, 2006)

Do it or grow old watching your daughter make the same kind of mistakes.


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## crazyeights (Jul 22, 2004)

I'm jumping in on this. I hope no one minds.

Two things. First, I wouldn't let the kids outside even though they have that radio. They could put it down and not be able to get to it fast enough. If they go out to play, you or your dh or someone you trust should always be with them.

Second, you father touched you. He makes rude inappropate comments. He wanted you to try to on lingere. Other men would ask their wives to model them, not their daughters. He sleeps with your daughter while your son sleeps with your mom. Your mom thinks all this is funny and normal.

Even if he has never done anything to your daughter, or to you, that would be enough for me to make sure they never saw my kids again. They don't need this in their lives.

My prayers are with you!

Debi


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## sgl42 (Jan 20, 2004)

barnyardfun said:


> Yeah but my situation was from years ago. I would be afraid that they would try to say that I was lieing and just trying to get him for something since I don't have any proof he did anything to my DD. And I guess I keep asking myself.....What if it really was an accident? :shrug:


BYF,
first, my deepest sympathies for your situation.

second, i think you're doing an incredible job, especially considering that just 6 days ago your world was turned completely upside down.

third, keep pursuing the truth and don't worry about whether they'll say you're lying. you know what he did to you. and theres clearly a pattern of unusual behavior beyond that one 'incident', both with you and with your children. you've seen how quickly the people on this board were convinced he's guilty. 

i can't tell you what would happen in the legal system; you'd have to talk with a prosecutor or a lawyer for that. however, pursuing a legal claim shows him that you can't be sweet-talked or threatened into silence, that you'll stand up for your own and your childs rights. regardless of what happens in court, you greatly increase his risk for trying anything in the future with anyone, so that he's less likely to try anything. 

furthermore, there may well be other people whom he's preyed upon, who also think 'people may not believe me.' but if you step forward, perhaps others will as well, either now or in the future. it's much tougher to disbelieve multiple unrelated people making similar claims.

once again, my sympathies for what you went thru as a child, and what you're going thru now. i can only imagine how confusing your world is right now, but you're doing an admirable job, so keep plugging away, pursuing the truth and protecting your family.

best wishes,
--sgl


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## HOTW (Jul 3, 2007)

This is a dificult trial for you .Molesters pick their victims carefully. They manipulate them and use power plays to see how the victim responds before they even go further. The hardet part of being molested is when someone does know and does nothing it makes the victim feel worthless which is usually something that is told them by the molesterso it only reenforces the lack of power/control the victim has. Even if a victim has no witness and tells noone they feel the same, a child feels their parents know everything so in their childish minds the parent knows what is happening and approves because they haven't been rescued. Soemtimes all it takes is " I know what ha shappened and I want to help" to let the child tell the story. Sad that many professionals don't know how to say thiis without leading the children on. All it takes is the I'm an adult and I know..kids feel parents/adults are omnipotent and know all. \
It sounds liek you are finally breaking the role of victim and growing up. Good for you! This is your first step. It's a long road for you and your daughter. I think your husband should consider moving I know he feels it's wrong but it might be the only way for you to heal. 

Sexual abuse is very complex and too mnay times it is overlooked which only causes more heartbreak.

Keep up your chin, keep the kids in your sight at ALL times and don't give up on your daughter she migh well give up her experiance yet. 

Good Luck we are all here for you!


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## Cloverbud (Sep 4, 2006)

barnyardfun said:


> I would do it in a heart beat if it was my daughter...*I just can't bring myself to do it just because of me*.


BYF, this statement breaks my heart. I have walked a mile in the mocassins you're wearing right now. *You* are worth just as much as your daughter. You were created in God's image, He knit you in the womb, and you are precious enough to Him that He had His Son die _just because of you._ Don't do it for yourself, do it for God's daughter. You *are* important enough! I'm sure your dh thinks so, too.


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## Terri (May 10, 2002)

Do you have any cousins about your age? Can you ask them if they were bothered? You might not be alone.


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## MarleneS (Aug 21, 2003)

Is it time for the mention that until you have actually lived in someone else's shoes it's best to err on the side of kindness? I know, I know, we all think we know exactly what we would do or not do "IF" it happened to us, but be honest, there are something in life you can't know until it actually does happen to you.

Take a minute, to seriously pretend that it is you who having no clue this had been happening to your child, now think a step beyond your initial reaction of hurt and anger, and thoughts of evil revenge, take it to the next step of you having to deal with the fact that someone you have loved, honored, and trusted your entire life or much of it is the villian. Think about what this knowledge is going to do to not only your immediate family but all it's extentions, what it's going to be like to continute living in a small town, think about what your children are going to be subjected too.

Barnyardfun, is doing the very best she can with the deal she has been dealt. She deserves praise, admiration, support and understanding. The last thing she needs is advise that will simply cause more harm then good in the long term. Especially since even though she has had the strength and courage to admit that she has a kind and gentle spirit, and is easily influenced by other, please please don't be the next person in her life taking advantage of who she is by nature.

Barnyardfun - I'm happy to have you back 

Hugs,
Marlene


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## homemom1fl (Nov 28, 2004)

Well said, Marlene!


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## Terri (May 10, 2002)

homemom1fl said:


> Well said, Marlene!


Yep,


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## Madame (Jan 1, 2003)

MarleneS said:


> Barnyardfun, is doing the very best she can with the deal she has been dealt. She deserves praise, admiration, support and understanding. The last thing she needs is advise that will simply cause more harm then good in the long term. Especially since even though she has had the strength and courage to admit that she has a kind and gentle spirit, and is easily influenced by other, please please don't be the next person in her life taking advantage of who she is by nature.
> Hugs,
> Marlene


Well said!


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## WindowOrMirror (Jan 10, 2005)

What your Dad did to you was wrong. Vengeance is the Lord's, but it seems to me that prosecuting him lessens the chance that he'll repeat an offense (against your daughter or otherwise).

I would understand either approach (prosecuting or not)... and I don't urge one over the other.

Praying for you,

Ron


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## Qvrfullmidwife (Jan 10, 2004)

along with everything else you need to rule out physical issues...I woudl also have her urine cultured to rule out a UTI because that can lead to the tummy aches and uncomfortable feeling as well as wetting the bed and trickling in her panties which woudl make her not want to have anyone see or remove them.


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## Qvrfullmidwife (Jan 10, 2004)

I cant say if anything happened, it sure seems odd. BUT you said "My DH said that when he was over there they were very nervous acting.....my mom wouldn't even let my father come out of the house"...well, if I (or my spouse) DIDNT do anything but heard that someone suspected that I did, I would sure not feel comfortable around them and I might not want my dh to leave the house either!


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## gleanerl (Apr 11, 2003)

bump
we need an update!


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## BAmaBubba (May 10, 2007)

bump again!

BYF? Wassup?????


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## A'sta at Hofstead (Sep 20, 2006)

I hope everything is ok BYF. I've been thinking about you and praying too.


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## Jan Doling (May 21, 2004)

They are counting on you to not reveal their crime. I firmly believe you could prevent him from hurting other victims. If nothing else, he could possibly be kept from volunteering or working with potential victims. By not speaking up, you may save them from embarrassment....but at what cost to others? I don't think he could help himself if presented with an opportunity. Who knows what unsuspecting child at church or a park may be lured into trusting him? Or, God forbid, say you and DH are killed in a car wreck....would the the grandparents get custody because you never spoke up?

As to having proof....what proof do you think the victims of all thos priests had, other than their testimony? It is not so rare anymore for victims upon adulthood to prosecute their abusers....with no proof other than their word.


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## susieM (Apr 23, 2006)

Jan Doling said:


> Or, God forbid, say you and DH are killed in a car wreck....would the the grandparents get custody because you never spoke up?


I never even thought of this!


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## Shepherd (Jan 23, 2005)

A very important thing to consider and legally plan for.


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## dashley (Jan 23, 2005)

bump


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## barnyardfun (Mar 26, 2005)

I know many of you are worried about us and I am very sorry I have not updated often enough. We are having a really bad time right now. Besides everything that has been going on, we have not got an update from the police about what they are doing and anytime I talk to our child advocate she says they have 30 days to close the case. My parents are still VERY mad and I have not talked to them. My dad calls everyday and leaves messages. One day he will tell me how much he loves me and how worried he is about me and the kids, and the next day he will call and tell me I am the sorriest person in the world (his words) because I haven't talked to them and I am making my mom so sick that she is throwing up all day long. Then the next time he called he was so sweet and said that maybe why I wasn't calling back was because I wasn't getting the messages.....maybe my DH was keeping the phone from me and wasn't letting me talk!  WOW! That one made me laugh! DH didn't think it was so funny though!  

On top of all of this our two beloved german shepherds got loose yesterday morning and we can't find them anywhere!! :Bawling: We have been driving around since yesterday morning looking for them. It was really lonely in the house last night! The kids (and me  ) have been crying off and on all day because we have still yet to find them. We have been to at least 50 houses and left our number, called all the pounds, and put up fliers. I don't know what else to do at this point but wait. They didn't have their collars on because DH hates how it mats up their hair. :Bawling: They are beautiful full blood german shepherds.....I am sure someone now has two new dogs. :grump: Please pray that we can find our dogs, they are part of the family and greatly missed!


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## susieM (Apr 23, 2006)

Maybe the police would be more prone to help you, if you would help them by filing a complaint about the previous situation between you and your stepdad...they work hard and get frustrated when they don't get the backup and documentation that they would like from the public that they are trying (often with their hands tied behind their backs) to serve. It coul be that, without the complaint from you, the whole thing will be thrown out. Don't blame them, they are not magic, they need you to help them.

Could the dogs have been made to disappear by your parents?


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## Ark (Oct 5, 2004)

Praying for you ALL!

Could the dogs be in your parents house? They probably wouldnt tell you, so DH may have to go check.... ?


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## longshadowfarms (Nov 27, 2002)

I will definitely be praying for your family and for your beloved dogs! 

Some good tips on finding lost pets:

http://www.k9sardog.com/missing.html


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## Ravenlost (Jul 20, 2004)

barnyardfun said:


> I know many of you are worried about us and I am very sorry I have not updated often enough. We are having a really bad time right now. Besides everything that has been going on, we have not got an update from the police about what they are doing and anytime I talk to our child advocate she says they have 30 days to close the case. My parents are still VERY mad and I have not talked to them. My dad calls everyday and leaves messages. *One day he will tell me how much he loves me and how worried he is about me and the kids, and the next day he will call and tell me I am the sorriest person in the world* (his words) because I haven't talked to them and I am making my mom so sick that she is throwing up all day long. Then the next time he called he was so sweet and said that maybe why I wasn't calling back was because I wasn't getting the messages.....maybe my DH was keeping the phone from me and wasn't letting me talk!  WOW! That one made me laugh! DH didn't think it was so funny though!
> 
> On top of all of this our two beloved german shepherds got loose yesterday morning and we can't find them anywhere!! :Bawling: We have been driving around since yesterday morning looking for them. It was really lonely in the house last night! The kids (and me  ) have been crying off and on all day because we have still yet to find them. We have been to at least 50 houses and left our number, called all the pounds, and put up fliers. I don't know what else to do at this point but wait. They didn't have their collars on because DH hates how it mats up their hair. :Bawling: They are beautiful full blood german shepherds.....I am sure someone now has two new dogs. :grump: Please pray that we can find our dogs, they are part of the family and greatly missed!


I am so sorry your dogs are missing and hope you find them soon.

The statement in bold is classic behavior of an abuser.


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## AngieM2 (May 10, 2002)

I've been reading this and wishing you well and much strength.

And how did the dogs get loose? I hope you find them, or they find their way back home.

Angiee


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## Ann-NWIowa (Sep 28, 2002)

Your father is playing with your mind with his phone calls. Keep the recordings they might be useful to the police someday. Since it upsets you so much to listen to him DON'T. Keep letting the machine take the calls but turn volume down/off then when dh gets home let him listen. As long as you're listening you are allowing him/them to play with your mind and emotions. You need to remove him (and probably your mom) from your life and quit letting them guilt you to death. Stop being their victim. Choose to be strong and free of their garbage. I know it won't be easy but each time you refuse to be their victim you'll grow stronger and the next time will be easier and the next etc. They are big people and they should have learned by now bad actions reap bad consequences... not the fault of their victims...its their own bad behavior coming home to roost. 

We went thru this with a foster daughter. Our goal was to change her response to her mother's bad behavior. Instead of crying or running screaming out of the room, she learned to ignore her mother's nasty words and not to give the evil witch the response she wanted. The first time she succeeded she was giddy with joy after her mother left jumping up and down and yelling I did it, I did it. After that it became easier for her to discount and ignore her stupid evil mother (and I don't call people evil lightly, but this woman was truly evil).


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## Shepherd (Jan 23, 2005)

I'm so sorry to hear about the dogs. Have you guys verified they're not at your parents' house?

Were they in the house or a fenced in area?


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## giometriks (Jul 24, 2005)

I wanted to write last night but just had to think about what I wanted to say. First let me say how sorry I am that you, your daughter, your son and your husband are going through this. There should be no room in this world for this kind of abuse. I really just want to let you know that I understand. I get it. I'd like to say to you that right now things may seem very dark. The truth is that by taking the steps that you've taken so far you've started to rise from that murk. My wise therapist described this process as a lake. She asked me to take her hand so that we could walk through that lake together. Some places were deep and scary. From some I could actually see the land on the other side of the darkness. As a child the two people who should have protected you hurt you terribly. As a child you had no way of defending yourself. Now as an adult you have to opportunity to protect your daughter as well as the child that was hurt so long ago. You are strong now even if you don't feel it. It's OK to be afraid! Each time that you take steps to ensure the safety of your daughter and yourself you will gain even more strength. If at all possible please find a therapist for yourself. You deserve it. There is life on the other side of this. There is hope. Most of all there is the opportunity for healing. 

Blessings for you and your family.

Suzi


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## barnyardfun (Mar 26, 2005)

Don't have much time right now to write so I will come back later and fill in the details but right now I just wanted to give a praise report!

WE HAVE FOUND OUR DOGS!!! They were missing for over 48 hrs and they just came home a few minutes ago!! 

I will be back later to let you know more! THANK YOU FOR ALL YOUR PRAYERS!


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## BAmaBubba (May 10, 2007)

Thank the Lord! Glad they're home safe...will be waiting for another update


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## PBPitcher (Aug 15, 2005)

giometriks said:


> I wanted to write last night but just had to think about what I wanted to say. First let me say how sorry I am that you, your daughter, your son and your husband are going through this. There should be no room in this world for this kind of abuse. I really just want to let you know that I understand. I get it. I'd like to say to you that right now things may seem very dark. The truth is that by taking the steps that you've taken so far you've started to rise from that murk. My wise therapist described this process as a lake. She asked me to take her hand so that we could walk through that lake together. Some places were deep and scary. From some I could actually see the land on the other side of the darkness. As a child the two people who should have protected you hurt you terribly. As a child you had no way of defending yourself. Now as an adult you have to opportunity to protect your daughter as well as the child that was hurt so long ago. You are strong now even if you don't feel it. It's OK to be afraid! Each time that you take steps to ensure the safety of your daughter and yourself you will gain even more strength. If at all possible please find a therapist for yourself. You deserve it. There is life on the other side of this. There is hope. Most of all there is the opportunity for healing.
> 
> Blessings for you and your family.
> 
> Suzi



I think this statement can not only be applied to this terrible situation, but to numerous situations that we all may face in life. I appreciate the thought that was put into these encouraging words. Thank you.


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## Shepherd (Jan 23, 2005)

barnyardfun said:


> WE HAVE FOUND OUR DOGS!!! They were missing for over 48 hrs and they just came home a few minutes ago!!


Oh, thank the Lord! I'm so happy they made their way back home! Bet the kids are giddy about that.


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## frazzlehead (Aug 23, 2005)

Thinking of you.

You're on the right path, stay strong, don't second guess yourself. Keep going - you're headed for healing.

Much love to you all from up North.


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## ginnie5 (Jul 15, 2003)

SO glad they made it home!!!! still praying for all of you.


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## MarleneS (Aug 21, 2003)

giometriks - thanks for sharing your lessons in life. I wish it were possible for you to know me and my fear of drowning ... the metaphoric description of life being like a lake came in loud and clear - and just a tad bit humorous for me personally 

barnyardfun - So happy to hear your dogs have returned. Silly rascals were probably have so much fun it took them a couple days to realize they were hungry and needed to head home. 

Keep on being the bigger better person, when YOU feel you have the strength to speak to either of your parents, simply tell them you love them and you are hoping they will love you enough to let you deal with your life as YOU feel best. It might not change your relationship with them but I guarantee it will make you feel good 

Hugs,
Marlene

Marlene


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## Cliff (Jun 30, 2007)

Any updates?


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## Queen Bee (Apr 7, 2004)

Prayers for your daughter. QB


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## frugalwilady (May 24, 2005)

BYF- I've read the thread and I can see how no info from the authorities about your situation would be maddening...after all your agonizing and the STRENGTH and COURAGE it took from you to do the right thing...The system takes time and its an imperfect one at that, sometimes. DD being too young, they don't have many avenues to follow even if something did happen...If they didn't feel there was enough evidence to do a physical exam on DD, but they stated what you remember from your past was enough for you to press charges immediately, is that enough to prove to you that your SF broke the law and did YOU harm?! 
Oh honey, please talk to someone for YOU! If you don't think that you need to...Do it for your babies until you get strong enough to do it for you! Consider it learning how to take care of your DD if she ever DOES remember something. 
I know its easy to get caught back up in the everyday...you can't "fight or flight" forever, Thank the Lord. Just because the authorities aren't able to do anything right NOW isn't any reason you can't...Use that wonderful new found courage to make a counseling apt for yourself, even if its just to talk to someone about your frustrations and troubles waiting for progress on your case... 
Wouldn't it be great to give your babies a chance to see disfunctional families someday NOT be more "normal" than functional families. I'm crying AND cheering for you and yours as only a person who comes from disfunction and still fights to set boundries w/ disfunctional family can. I know how hard it is to protect your kids from all of that craziness and break the cycle. All the while having to deal (or not deal) w/ your own baggage... AND I'M STILL TELLING YOU ITS WORTH EVERY FIGHT AND EVERY TEAR!!!
I'm also praying for your family and your strength. K


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## BAmaBubba (May 10, 2007)

BYF...any updates??????????? 

Praying for your family


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## Tenn_Farmer (Jul 14, 2006)

bump


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## barnyardfun (Mar 26, 2005)

Hello everyone! Thank you so much for the continued prayers! You guys are the best! Please bare with me....I am frustrated at this point because I am at my inlaws house using their computer and the stupid thing ask for a password every 2 seconds!!  OH WELL!

Okay, here is what is going on. Things have not been very interesting until yesterday. The dogs where gone for two days, they ended up being at someone's house that lives about a mile or so away. Thank God that they called around to the vets seeing if anyone had lost dogs and I had put fliers up in the vet offices. We were reunited on Friday. Our male was VERY happy to be home because he is very spoiled....like to the point of he doesn't sleep outside! He was very tired for a couple days and today is really starting to act like his old self. The female....well, she is going to be finding a new home as soon as possible. My DH won't even look at her! He is so mad at her for leading the male off!  

As far as what's going on with the case....well, I have no idea. No one has called me since the last time I talked to them and they were going over to my mom and dad's to do the interview. Guess they will call me at some point?? I just don't know.

As far as the situation with my mom and dad. I have pretty well cut them completly out of my life. So many of you helped me realize that all of this junk was metal abuse and I had the right to say NO and not have to deal with this junk! THANK YOU! It has been hard not listening to my guilt and want to call and apologize for anything I may have done, I feel like this is all my fault at times and that I am just a horrible daughter. But then I step back and realize that they brought this all on themselves and they are the ones who want to make things so dramatic.

I know many of you will not agree with me just completly ignoring them and not talking to them at all since this started. But I have to do that! I am not strong enough to talk to them. They beat me everytime with their word games and stuff. So I have decided that it is just best that I don't speak to them. Maybe one day they will grow up and want to act like adults and I will consider talking to them on occasion.....but for some reason I just don't see that happening!

Up until yesterday I haven't heard anything out of them since dad kept calling and leaving nasty messages. They left us alone for awhile. Then yesterday my mom started calling and leaving messages and just said that she just needed to talk. Then she needed to talk and it was VERY important. Then she needed to hear from me by 8:00 because it was VERY important. So at this point we are trying to figure out what could be so important and why if it was SO important hadn't they called my DH. So DH takes my phone and calls her to find out what is going on (again, I will not speak to them right now because I know I am not strong enough to handle it and to stand up to it) She REFUSES to speak to my DH nomatter what he tells her! She then calls again and leaves a message and says if she doesn't hear MY voice by 8:00 she is calling the cops to come check on my because they are very worried for my well being. They are afraid that my DH has me locked in the house and won't let me contact anyone!  They said that on the message!! (and no my DH erased all the messages so that I would not have to hear them again, I told him not to because they could be evidence but :shrug: ) So they kept calling because we wouldn't answer and kept leaving messages saying that they haven't done anything to justify me not talking to them at all and how horrible I am and blah blah blah......This whole time this is going we are at the in laws house....Thank GOD! They have been such a support to DH and I while we are going thru this. It is nice to know that I am not the crazy one....they see what is going on with my parents and frankly they think they are just plum NUTS!

Okay... Let me see where I am at.... It doesn't stop at the phone calls! Hmm...at this point let me give you a little history. When DH and I set up our house my parent's insisted that it was pointless to drill a well when they have a well that could support 4 houses (it is an artisian....is pumps over 26 gallons a minute!) so when we set up our house we just ran a water line from their well to our house....I think it was about 1600ft (that is how I know the distance between our houses). Now this has been a continuous problem because they blame us for them not having water pressure, volume, etc. Now our line runs down hill....it siffons itself, we don't even need their pump!We still have water when they are out of electricity because it does it all itself. Well anyway I am sure you have guessed by now that when we did go home last night.....YEP! *WE HAD NO WATER!!!* They shut it off!! DH and I had shut off my phone so we didn't have to listen to it ring when they called so we listened this morning and there is a devious laugh from my dad and he says " There you go Shawnna B-------!" He really pronouces my last name because they HATE my inlaws! "now you don't have any water until you will talk to your mom or you pay someone else to get you water!" Mind you at this point my DH and I are laughing and really feeling sorry for them because I promise you they are not getting the reaction from us they thought they would! 

DH has a call into a well drilling place right now.....just gotta wait till they can come out. God will provide the money somehow so I am not going to stress about it....just going to pray. The kids and I (and DH since he works right here) are at the inlaws house and they said our house is your house and stay as long as you need. So we are just going to hang out here for awhile. We will still go home in the evenings to take care of all the animals and sleep but for right now we will stay here.

I have a pretty good idea what my parents are going to do next. They are probably going to call DHS on us since we are living in a house with no running water with two young kids. This has been my biggest worry this whole time is the thought of losing my kids. I am a good mommy, I don't keep the cleanest house in the world, but now I have no water and my parents are probably going to say every nasty thing they can to get what they want. What they want is untimaly custody of ME and my kids. They are freaking out right now because they no longer have control.

I am really sorry if some of this doesn't make sense or rambles. I am really just TIRED with all of this stuff going on and have a hard time keeping stuff straight in my head. Please forgive me.

PS. I forgot to mention...DH and I have had one of the best weeks in our marriage thus far (we have been married over 6 yrs.) This week we have grown closer together and have not fought over anything. I really feel that having my parents out of the picture and being able to just completly be a wife to my DH and not have to worry about what anyone else thinks has been a big thing! I can go places and do stuff with my kids and DH without having to worry what SOMEONE is going to say about it latter! I feel.....well, I guess I feel FREE!


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## MullersLaneFarm (Jul 23, 2004)

Shawnna,
Stand strong with your husband. 

There is no way your parents will be able to get your children from you, despite what they may say or do.

They are simply trying to push your buttons. They don't know those buttons have an 'out of order' sign on them.

Give them enough rope, they'll hang themselves with it.


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## AngieM2 (May 10, 2002)

You are doing GREAT!

Angie


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## jen74145 (Oct 31, 2006)

Way to go, Shawnna. :dance:


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## PBPitcher (Aug 15, 2005)

Good for you girl! Just take it one day at a time, and someday you will look back and wonder what ever held you back in the first place!

My prayers are still with you - stay strong


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## BAmaBubba (May 10, 2007)

You GO girl! I'm so proud of you, Shawna! Just hang in there. Sounds to me that something mighty good has already come of this situation.


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## sgl42 (Jan 20, 2004)

barnyardfun said:


> As far as what's going on with the case....well, I have no idea. No one has called me since the last time I talked to them and they were going over to my mom and dad's to do the interview. Guess they will call me at some point?? I just don't know.


call them back and ask!!! this is your children we're talking about. and you! you really need to follow up on this, dispite all the other stresses and chaos going on right now. tell them about the water cutoff, and the abusive phone calls too.

that said, everything else you're doing is great! i don't think anyone here is judging you for completely cutting off the relationship with your parents. i think it's the opposite -- you're being applauded!

glad you and your hubby are coming together as a stronger team. that's a very good sign that you'll recover well from this.

--sgl


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## Shepherd (Jan 23, 2005)

I agree, contact the investigators and tell them you'd like an update, and you'd also like to report their recent actions of not only the harassing phone calls, but the fact that they shut off the water to your home! Make SURE you report that ASAP. That way you have it on record that you reported it, in case your folks try and cause you problems concerning custody of your children. How DARE they cut off the water source to your home. Shows just how much concern they have for their grandchildren's well being, doesn't it? (I hope this backfires on them in a big way.)

Tell me they don't own the land your house is on?

We're all proud of you for doing what you feel is best for your kids. Your priority is to God, your husband and children. God bless your inlaws for being there for you through all this. It would be wise that the children not overhear any of the adults in the house talking badly about your parents, however.


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## Shepherd (Jan 23, 2005)

Erasing their phone call messages probably isn't a good idea; they may be needed as evidence.


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## barnyardfun (Mar 26, 2005)

They do not own the land we live on. We own the land and before that it belonged to the inlaws (DH and I grew up as next door neighbors!)

I tried to recover the deleted messages from my phone today....I was able to get a couple but not all. I really wanted to get the message back that my dad left where he was laughing and said he cut off our water.  Oh well, I will try again later. We have someone coming out this afternoon to give us an estimate on drilling a well. Please pray for us in this situation that we can hit a good well and be able to afford it! I think I may have to sell my truck, but that is okay because water for my kids is way more important!

Thank you all for the advice. I am going to call our child advocate right now and let her know what is going on! You are right....I need to be the first to let them know what is going on.

Thank you all, I will try to come back later and chat more. Right now I am trying to get the kids down for a nap and they are not too happy about not being home. 

Oh, and we do our VERY best to make sure the kids don't hear anything that is going on. I don't want them to be upset by all this and I know it could tramatize them if they knew a lot of this junk. Thank you for your concern.


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## Dente deLion (Nov 27, 2006)

Way to go! Your strength and determination are absolutely amazing!

I too would suggest keeping the messages, as well as following up with the child advocate (including reporting the water shutoff). Documentation of every little thing may be extremely important down the road.

And thank you for the update!


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## A'sta at Hofstead (Sep 20, 2006)

I agree reporting the water shut off is paramount- you need that arrow in your quiver..... what creeps they are being.


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## crazyeights (Jul 22, 2004)

I am so proud of you!!!

Now you know in no certain terms that your parents don't really love you and your kids. No parent/grandparent who really loves their children/grandchildren would ever cut off water to them. I have 8 kids and 6 grandchildren. I would NEVER do what your parents have done. To them it is all about power.

Do you have siblings? If so, how do they treat your siblings?

Also, you might have to consider changing your phone number if their hassling calls continue.

Debi


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## crazyeights (Jul 22, 2004)

Did they ever call the police when you didn't call them back by 8 or was that just another power ploy on their part?

Debi


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## barnyardfun (Mar 26, 2005)

I just got off the phone with the Child Advocate. She told me I was doing everything perfectly and congratuated me for being so strong. She told me NOT to talk to my parents for any reason and to make sure that my DH was there if there was any contact. I told her about the water and she couldn't believe how low they had stuped. She documented everything and will let the investigators know what is going on. She told me the last thing I need to worry about right now is losing my kids. She said to get that worry out of my mind because I was doing great. 

She wanted me to keep the messages from now on as they might prove to be helpful to the investigators. I am going to keep my phone records too so they have proof of when they called. Since the messages from yesterday have been erased I am fixing to sit down and write down everything I remember. Hopefully that will help.

Like I told our Child Advocate......if this keeps up I think I am going to have to get a restraining order!


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## barnyardfun (Mar 26, 2005)

crazyeights said:


> Did they ever call the police when you didn't call them back by 8 or was that just another power ploy on their part?
> 
> Debi


We do not know if the police showed up or not. We did not get home until after 10pm and went straight to bed. As far as we know the police were not contacted. :shrug:


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## barnyardfun (Mar 26, 2005)

crazyeights said:


> Do you have siblings? If so, how do they treat your siblings?
> 
> Also, you might have to consider changing your phone number if their hassling calls continue.
> 
> Debi


My step father has children and one of them I keep in contact with. He is the only one I claim as my brother. BUT they made him call me yesterday to check on me and get me to call them and DH talked to him. I think that he is mad at me right now also. He knows how they can be and that they can be controlling but he thinks it is wrong that I won't talk to them.

The only person that needs to get ahold of me right now is my DH and I have been with him almost everyday, all day, since last week. I try to keep the phone turned off or just ignore the call (this is my cell phone as we don't use the house phone, we only us it for the internet). So I know when they are calling so I just ignore. I figure it makes them feel a little better getting to leave the messages so maybe they won't try to come to my house!? :shrug:


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## A'sta at Hofstead (Sep 20, 2006)

If it turns out they are found guilty of this, and we know your father _did_abuse you, he absolutely did, I would think about hiring an attorney and file a civil suit, mental anguish, whatever, I would get just enough to dig that well. 
Cutting off your water is vindictive, you should get mad and a little vindictive too. 
I cannot imagine my folks ever doing something like that to their grandchildren or me, my mom (rest in peace dad) would be writing a check for the well if I couldn't afford it, that is what real parents do, help their kids when they can.


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## frugalwilady (May 24, 2005)

BYF- If not talking to them at all is what you need to do to get thru this...GOOD FOR YOU!!! iI'm so happy to hear your marriage is growing stronger in this difficult time, thats whats supposed to happen too. Lean on DH and his family, but please call your advocate back and see if there's someone available for you to talk to, it will build YOUR strength. Please call...it is worth it.


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## Shepherd (Jan 23, 2005)

((((((((Barnyardfun)))))))))))) I am SO proud of you and thrilled that your DH is doing his very best to be there for you as a good husband & protector, as well as your inlaws. If you were my daughter, I would tell you how proud I am of you and that you should do whatever it takes to keep your children safe.

I suspect your parents trying to talk to you before their 8 PM deadline might have been related to shutting off your water supply, don't you? 

Document everything you can remember (and from here on out) - dates, times, who was present, what was said or done, etc. Keep a good journal because it is likely that information WILL be needed. The moment they shut your water off to your house, is when they started showing their true colors to the outside world. I pray the people coming out to give you an estimate on the well digging will hit water easily and keep their charges to a minimum for your sake... as well as realize this is needed asap. 

I suppose everything in regard to the sharing of the well & pump was verbal only and there is nothing in writing to back it up, right? Were there any witnesses... anyone who overheard that conversation? Possibly the guy who dug it or put the lines in to your house? LOL - I would LOVE to see an affadavit or two prepared with their statements to that effect!!

Anyway - back to the original situation. We don't know for a fact that your parents did anything to your children, but their behavior is VERY odd; your dad sleeping with your daughter and your mom sleeping with your son... the strange things your dad has said to you, things he's done to you, etc., all these things would lead one to conclude that it is a possibility. But if they were innocent of any wrong-doing, and if they really loved you and the kids, I would think they would want to make sure nobody's harming those kids - even if it meant a little embarassment and an investigation. What if it were someone else? There's just too many "what if's" but keeping those children protected at all costs is critical. And that's exactly what you're doing!

I know this is probably one of the hardest things you've had to deal with, and I wish you didn't have to go through it. But you have a good support system there and you have another family supporting you here with this forum. Stand tall and proud knowing that you're being a good mama to your kids. I'm very happy to hear your marriage is growing stronger; at least something good is coming from all this.


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## wr (Aug 10, 2003)

If they have allowed you use and access to the well previously, they may not be legally entitled to turn off the tap. That would be an issue for a lawyer because laws vary regionally but I do suspect that they would have to serve warning. Good lord, that's not the kind of people I'd want my kids around. I have to say that anyone who is willing to deny their grandchildren access to water are not my kind of people and it tells me that you are doing the right thing by not allowing the kids to spend time with them, even if there weren't suspicions of abuse. Hang in there, they are manipulating and if you cave now, they have you right where they want you.


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## Ann-NWIowa (Sep 28, 2002)

Your parent's behavior seems extremely juvenile. Sort of like a two year old throwing a tantrum screaming and kicking because someone won't let them have their own way. I hope you'll get some counseling to help you learn positive ways to cope with these people. Right now you're coping by avoiding, but with help you'll learn to face them and tell them to get over themselves and butt out of your life. I don't mean that there's anything wrong with avoiding them. In fact, that's a huge step forward for you. Now just keep taking steps and you'll get to where you want/need to be. 

I agree with documenting everything. It is important to do it in real time. That is right after it happens, not the next day. Date each entry and make sure your notes reflect that it just happened. For court use real time documentation is important. In testimony you might be asked if you're sure you remembered correctly and you could answer that you wrote it down immediately after it happened so you're sure its correct. Keep recordings of the messages they leave. Nothing like letting them dig their own grave.


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## frazzlehead (Aug 23, 2005)

Hey BYF: I'm so proud of ya!

You and your family (the whole family - hubby, kids, inlaws, all of you who are sticking TOGETHER as a real family should!) are doing an awesome job. 

One small practical idea for your lack of water situation, in case you haven't already figured this part out ... although you probably have!

When I lived in the shed while my house was under construction, I had one of those square camping water jugs that has a tap on the bottom. Set on the edge of a sink, even kids can twist the tap open, rinse hands under the water flow, and turn it off - voila, running water!  Set a jug or pail of water (doesn't even have to be fresh water) beside the toilet and you can even flush - after all, the water flows OUT of the house okay, it just doesn't come IN ... thanks to some rather un-smart people you know! 

Keep up the good work, I'm so glad to hear things are moving forward - it might seem slow from where you sit, but the forward movement is really clear to see from over here! Good going!


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## Bink (Apr 13, 2003)

You're doing good. Your parents amaze me. You tell them you think your daughter has been hurt, and all they can talk about is "What about me, me, ME?" At least they're leaving you with no doubts over what sort of people they are.

Thank you for looking out for your kids. In doing so, you're looking out for you, too, and for the little girl you once were. I admire your strength and courage.


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## susieM (Apr 23, 2006)

The water thing should be all the proof you need. These people are sick.

My Mom lives on water catchment, with an above ground pool and a pump, and water caught from the roof. Would this work for you?

In the meantime, what might work is a tank for house water, and bottles for drinking...mabe you could fill them at your in-laws?


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## barnyardfun (Mar 26, 2005)

Yes I will eventually haul water to the house. Right now it is just easier to come over the the inlaws during the day. We were told by the well drilling guy that he is about 2 weeks out. Right now it is not so bad going somewhere else for awhile but for 2 weeks! NOPE! I already miss home and there is no way I can be away that long! The kids are going to go to church with the inlaws tonight so maybe DH and I can work on getting some water to the house. 

My mom has been calling again this morning and saying that I just need to talk to her. Then she called back and said that I have made it pretty obvious that I don't want to talk to her but I need to let the kids call them and talk to them! YEAH RIGHT! Why? So they can brainwash them? The kids don't knwo what is going on. We just tell them we can't go over to my parents house if they ask. But last night DD asked why we didn't have any water and why we couldn't stay home, she wanted DH to check and make sure that there wasn't any broken pipes under the house!. DH just outright told her that we didn't have water because her Papa shut it off......she didn't even question it. I know I will have to tell her something at some point.....because if we continue not to speak to them she is going to start asking questions. I just don't know what to tell her right now.


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## susieM (Apr 23, 2006)

The cutting off of the water gives me the creeps.


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## tiffnzacsmom (Jan 26, 2006)

I'm skipping most of the responses so please forgive me. My daughter was molested by my husband, I was completely clueless and it went on for a few years before she broke down and told a family friend while I was at work. Take her to the doctors and call the police, if no one has done anything to her then you know you did whatever it takes to prove it, if someone has hurt her I don't care who it is they need to go away for a very long time. We have been dealing with the legal system since May 15, 2006 and still haven't went to trial but my dd is standing firm she wants him put away before he hurts any other little girls. I didn't know before but he had apparently molested most of his neices and his sisters, their mother's, covered for him. DON'T CONTINUE THE CYCLE. If something is wrong it needs to be stopped now, not only for your child but any other child he comes into contact with.


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## patnewmex (Aug 11, 2006)

The cutting off of the water is not something that concerned parents/grandparents would do to their children/grandchildren. Sounds like a plea of "guilty" to me. :shrug:


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## Hears The Water (Aug 2, 2002)

BYF, I just got a chance to go back and catch up on your posts. I don't know if you can see this, but you are a different person since your first post. I see in your writings, a much more confident woman! I am so proud of you! We all are! 

It gave me the willies to see that your kids call your sd "papa", that is what my kids called my dad. My mom is "nana". Yes, these abusive parents can do some pretty juvenile things. My dad kept a record book of every time I allowed him to talk to the kids...down to the exact number of minutes, every time he took me to the store, or bought me gasoline. He asked our atty. to talk to us about grandparent rights... which were not an issue since there was not a divorce going one and the atty was in conflict since he was their atty too. He had people convinced that he was the victim and they would come to my business and home to ask me to please let my kids see him. The final straw was when he went to my therapist and told her how I was not feeding the kids, lived in filth, had bugs, etc. etc. and how he was going to get rid of my dh, have me institutionalized because of my panic attacks and take my kids away from me. I tell you this to let you know that they can do some eye popping things when they think they are right and you are wrong. And you know they have to convince themselves that they are right just to live with what they do. You know, God protected me throughout all of that. He sent people at the right times to help out, and gave us a therapist that could see him for who he was. You are spot on to be trusting in God for the well. He will work a miracle in your life. You are doing so well! Tell your dh that he is doing a great job, for me! Keep you chin up!
God bless you and yours
Deb


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## gleanerl (Apr 11, 2003)

bump
any new developments?
keep your wits about you, you're doing great!


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## barnyardfun (Mar 26, 2005)

Well as of yesterday things got a little more interesting!

Mom called ALL DAY yesterday leaving messages hysterically crying...."what have I done to you! Please call me! Please!" and on and on and on. Then she started calling just begging to talk to the kids.....if only she could just talk to the kids, she kept saying that. She kept saying she was on the verge of a breakdown and I was killing her. 

THEN! Yesterday afternoon a cop showed up here at my inlaws house. He had went out to the shop and told DH he was looking for me. DH said no problem....she is in the house. Cop told him he didn't have to let him see me. Dh said I have nothing to hide! She is just sitting in the house. Cop came in and we talked about everything that was going on and why he was called out. Let's just say that he was not very happy when he figured out why he had been called out. He said he would make sure to tell my parents that they just needed to quit contacting me because obviously I wasn't going to talk to them! He thought it was pretty sorry that they cut off my water and that was why I wasn't at home when he tried to find me.

Opps....DH is calling...need to go. Will be back later!


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## Shepherd (Jan 23, 2005)

Wow! And hopefully now it's in the police report that they've shut off the water to your house!!!!!!!!

I can't help but think you could get it turned back on with some legal help.


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## barnyardfun (Mar 26, 2005)

Shepherd said:


> Wow! And hopefully now it's in the police report that they've shut off the water to your house!!!!!!!!
> 
> I can't help but think you could get it turned back on with some legal help.


Even if we could find a way to get it turned back on with some legal help it just isn't worth it. That would always be something that they would have over me. We would have to contact them if anything happened to pump....etc. It just isn't worth it. Besides...it will cost between $2000 and $4000 to have a well done, that seems more financially smart to do that then to spend money on a lawyer. At least this way my parent won't have anything I need.

Now to just figure out how to come up with $2000-4000 in 2 weeks!  THE LORD WILL PROVIDE. I just know He will!


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## dashley (Jan 23, 2005)

Just to let you know we are still praying for you!!

I admire your strength!!


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## homemom1fl (Nov 28, 2004)

BYF,
Still praying for you here! I am so glad that you and your husband are drawing closer together. Interesting that your parents dislike of him affected your relationship, probably without you knowing it. The most important thing is that the two of you support one another and have a united front. Even though the kids may be a bit affected by being estranged from your parents (don't get me wrong, they should be estranged), the benefits they will gain from having mommy and daddy more in love and closer than ever will far outway any negative thing!


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## Shepherd (Jan 23, 2005)

I think drilling your own well is definitely worth it and I agree totally with your reasoning. You're doing great!


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## Wildfire_Jewel (Nov 5, 2006)

BYF,
I have been tossing my reply around for days and it may still not sound "right'. We have a "funny uncle" in the family. And yes, that is what he is called. He lost a teaching job due to inappropriate touching, lost his position as a bible school teacher, and molested 2 of my aunts. I never knew this until AFTER he had gotten to me. I was allowed to go to their house to stay for weeks at a time (my cousin is close to the same age). She told me things that were being done to her that I never told anyone about and should of. I did tell my mom finally that I did not want to go back to stay there ever but NOTHING was done!!!! My father I guess (WHY my mother thought I needed to hear this?!) said "Oh that's just how _______ is"!! NO ANGER!! Come to find out the few other girls in the family had been warned about him. My cousin's friends were not allowed around him but me??? Oh they just let me stay with them for weeks with no warning of his behavior and no tips on what to do if anything did happen! I was left to my own defenses which I am sorry to say were severely lacking! My grandmother I guess called and reamed my aunt about his behavior and my aunt told him that if she ever heard of any more "incidences" that she would take the shot gun to him herself. That was all teh action taken. This man and his son (possibly 2 of the sons) could have been put away. My husband tells me that nothing was done because it was 20 years ago and things just weren't done back then. I disagree and asked him what he would have done if it was our daughter. His answer was that he'd beat the *&*( out of him. That to me is a normal fathers reaction.
Why am I telling you this? Because the emotional damage done from the lack of action on my parents part is HUGE! I love my parents but I have alot of pent up anger over this and I am not sure how to get rid of it. I blame myself for "allowing" things to happen. PLEASE make sure your daughter knows what has been done to keep her safe if she ever remembers more. Kids need to know that the parent is there for them to run to and that they will protect them.
Melissa


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## barnyardfun (Mar 26, 2005)

I just got back from town.....I bought a couple 5 gallon glass jugs of water (WOW! The price was Crazy! $7 a piece deposit and $9.50 a piece after that for the water! :shrug: Oh well, I know they will last forever and it is well worth it to be home!)

It is really nice to be home. I will still have to go over to the inlaws and fill the jugs up, take showers, and do laundry. But it will be nice to get to be home again!

OH! Guess what! DH and I both got a message on our phone this morning. It was my Dad. He was so sweet on the message (  ) and he said that he turned the water back on, he was looking for leaks over on his side and if we would check and make sure we don't have any leaks on our side since he turned it back on!!!! :nono: YOU HAVE GOT TO BE KIDDING ME!! :doh: Okay to start with....it took him how many days to 'search for leaks' and that vindictive little message he left when he shut it off must not have meant anything! :shrug: URGH! I am still frustrated that DH deleted that message because now we have no proof that he shut it off just to get me to talk. Oh well. Anyway, when DH got that message he immediatly called me and got me to come home and shut it off on our end. DH said he doesn't want a drop of their water, we can survive without it! So I flushed the toilets, watered the dogs and shut it off. So now we kind of have water but not. I don't want the water back from them. That is just one more thing they can hold over my head, one more thing THEY have control over. :nono: Nope! No more! They will not have control over me ANYMORE! I won't do it! It still breaks my heart to think that I am hurting them but I think this is the best thing we can do, and I just have to stick to that. 

So in 2 weeks we will have our own well. Until then I will continue to haul water. The only way it will really affect us is the kids will really miss their little kiddy pool.  Oh well, the other day I ordered DD's homeschool curriculum, so maybe we will just start school early to keep our minds off things.

Thank you all for listening to my ramblings. You all are GREAT! :kissy:


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## Dente deLion (Nov 27, 2006)

Honestly, BYF, you have made such amazing strides! I am so proud of you! HOORAY FOR YOU! I think you are absolutely making the right decision about the water and the well, and for all the right reasons. It sounds like you now have the fire in the belly that you need to get you through.

Keep it stoked!


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## naturewoman (Nov 12, 2002)

I'm wondering why nobody else questioned the dog issue. Are you sure the dogs got out on their own and just wandered away? Maybe your step dad had something to do with that too? It seems to fit the pattern.

If I were you, I'd get another big aggressive dog that does not know your parents and will bark at them if they come anywhere near your place.


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## barnyardfun (Mar 26, 2005)

naturewoman said:


> I'm wondering why nobody else questioned the dog issue. Are you sure the dogs got out on their own and just wandered away? Maybe your step dad had something to do with that too? It seems to fit the pattern.
> 
> If I were you, I'd get another big aggressive dog that does not know your parents and will bark at them if they come anywhere near your place.


I am positive that the dog issue had nothing to do with my parents. The dogs were over at the shop.....no fencing. The male is over there all the time and never goes anywhere. The female on the other hand is....well she is not the sharpest tool in the shed. My DH felt sorry for her not getting to go anywhere so he took her with him to the shop. She has a habit to wonder a bit. And she just kept going and going and going. The male has the same problem a lot of guys do  he just sees a pretty girl and follows!  

But it all turned out fine because they are home safe and sound and are now wearing their collars. I don't care if it does mat up their fur....THEY WILL WEAR THEIR COLLARS!


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## Shepherd (Jan 23, 2005)

barnyardfun said:


> DH and I both got a message on our phone this morning. It was my Dad. He was so sweet on the message (  ) and he said that he turned the water back on, he was looking for leaks over on his side and if we would check and make sure we don't have any leaks on our side since he turned it back on!!!!


What a load of horse manure! They finally realized - or someone pointed it out, or someone (maybe those investigating everything) mentioned - the dire ramifications turning off your water will have on them now! 



barnyardfun said:


> I am still frustrated that DH deleted that message because now we have no proof that he shut it off just to get me to talk.


I wouldn't worry too much about that - you knew it, your inlaws knew it and the well man will verify it. But it really is a shame you don't have all the messages they've left on tape to document everything that's happened. Just keep up with your journaling. You may THINK this is all over when you get your well dug and things calm down, but - don't count on it. These people sound pretty ruthless.

I am SO happy you and DH decided you'd go ahead and have your own well dug. Good for you! 

And if I were you, I'd turn the water back on long enough to fill the kids pool, and shut it back off again, ROFL!

Good idea on getting started on homeschooling to keep yourselves busy and your minds on other things. Keep your doors locked and don't let your guard down. You are doing an absolutely great job in handling all this. What a huge change since you first posted about all this. 



naturewoman said:


> I'm wondering why nobody else questioned the dog issue. Are you sure the dogs got out on their own and just wandered away? Maybe your step dad had something to do with that too? It seems to fit the pattern.


I questioned it early on and I still feel, as you do, they may have had something to do with it. But the dogs are home now and I'm thankful they're ok.

Keep us posted, BYF.


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## susieM (Apr 23, 2006)

Keep the water on til you get your own supply. The police might have forced him to turn it back on, and you turning it off will just look bad for you. No point in cutting off your nose to spite your face. And anyway...unless it is ou that tells him, how will he know you turned it off?


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## naturewoman (Nov 12, 2002)

I agree with Susie on the water issue. As long as you are working toward getting your own well dug, you are establishing your freedom...and there is no reason to make your life harder than necessary. He's doing a good enough job of that as it is. Don't let him have that kind of power over you.


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## stars01 (Jun 24, 2006)

Thinking of you, take care.

Paula


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## Wildwood Flower (Aug 26, 2006)

Hi Shawna,
My computer was down so today was the first day I read this thread. I am so happy to reach the end and see what a huge leap of MATURITY you have made with standing up for yourself, your daughter, and your family. 

You've made an excellent start. There's just something wonderful about the TRUTH. And I'm glad you're sticking close with your husband and his family. They sound like fine people. You need to be around people who are normal and wholesome. 

I'll just bet that your Depression has lifted too, if you think about it. 

I would urge you to go ahead and make a report of your own abuse by your step-father before the time runs out. Don't worry about whether or not he is punished, just doing this for your own self-respect will do wonders for you. 

And some time in the future it may help someone else. 

It was interesting that you said you would do this for your daughter, but not for yourself. You're still a young girl. When you get to be my age you finally realize that the way you treat yourself with love and respect and human kindness is the best thing you can do for your daughter. You see, she is watching you and how you are. If you are brave and strong and stand up for what is right, so will she. 

If you allow abuse to yourself, she will allow it to herself. So do it for her. What your step-dad did to you is not only wrong, it's against the law.

Your husband and son will also gain a new respect for you. 

Your parents are very weak and immature people, and when their cover is blown it all comes out. They have thrived on keeping you sick and small and dependant on them--to make themselves feel big and powerful and needed. 

You will be doing them a favor to report what has gone on in your own childhood. I'm sure there will be help available for them too. If they don't take it, ....oh well. 

All of their threats and guilt trips are useless now, and their violence against your family didn't work either. But that's a good thing for them to find out. 

You are right, the Lord will provide for the well. You are wise to not take a drop of water (or anything else) from them. Your husband is your provider now. He is all you need. 

Thank you for sharing your story. I know it is hard, but I'm sure it will help others.


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## MullersLaneFarm (Jul 23, 2004)

barnyardfun said:


> Anyway, when DH got that message he immediatly called me and got me to come home and shut it off on our end. DH said he doesn't want a drop of their water, we can survive without it!


I'd rethink this. It might go bad for you if you had access to water and intentionally turned it off yourself. I wouldn't put it past them to report you for not having water.

It isn't _their_ water. Turn it off when the well is dug.


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## Shepherd (Jan 23, 2005)

You know, after reading Susie's (and other's) post I agree - it would be wise to turn the water back on until your well is done and ready; with regard to the investigation, etc. You don't want anything to jeopardize the custody situation of your kids and if they found out your water was turned back on and you didn't utilize it, they could look at you guys as unfit parents.

So far everything you've done has been with the utmost concern for your children. This would be the only thing that might sway their decision so I'd turn the water back on and then switch to your well as soon as it's ready. We're only talking a couple of weeks. You still don't have to speak with your parents.

You've come this far, don't let anything jeopardize what you've accomplished so far.


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## Wildwood Flower (Aug 26, 2006)

Since when is it against the law to NOT have running water?

Hogwash. You carry water. You're having a well dug. You wash your clothes at In Laws--I'd leave it off.

You've already reported them, and are taking daily notes on their behavior. 

Do as your husband advised you.


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## naturewoman (Nov 12, 2002)

Most homes are only allowed a certificate of occupancy if they meet the requirements of being a real home, meaning they have a toilet with city sewer or qualifying septic tank, a bathtub, a kitchen sink, and running water. Of course if you have a problem and are getting it fixed, they can't do anything, unless it goes on too long. But if you are deliberately living without water, they could take your CO away. This is according to city codes for most cities (at least in larger areas...maybe not all rural areas). 

I don't know if this applies to you, but if your step dad is able to determine you have shut the water off and are not using it, I wouldn't put it past him to try to make trouble for you by calling the city and complaining. I am not sure he could, since he shut it off in the first place, but why give him the option of using it?

It could be more than a month that you are living without water before this is resolved. Depending on how deep they need to go and the ground and rock there, the well can take some time to dig, and then there is the plumbing to hook up to the house. Did the 5K estimate include the pump and hook-ups, or was that just for the drilling to get to the water?

There is no need to live with this hardship. It's not proving anything. Get the well in as fast as you can, but as long as the water is available, I'd use it.


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## Bink (Apr 13, 2003)

naturewoman said:


> I wouldn't put it past him to try to make trouble for you by calling the city and complaining.


I wouldn't, either, especially since they've already had fun calling the police to "check on her" because they couldn't talk to her and were "afraid her husband had done something to her".


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## susieM (Apr 23, 2006)

Maybe anyone who would turn off your water would also tell the authorities that you have no water and offer to take care of your children while you sorted out the problem.

Don't trust them, whatever they say or do.


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## barnyardfun (Mar 26, 2005)

The investigator called today. They are closing the case. They have talked to everyone involved and are just not able to come up with any evidence. The investigator was very sure to remind me that just because they couldn't come up with evidence it doesn't mean it didn't happen. I explained to her the whole water issue and that we shut it off on our end now and are hauling in water....she thought that was the best idea, that obviously I just needed to part ways with my parents and they didn't need to have anything that they could hold over my head. She said I was doing great and to just keep it up and if anything changes (like maybe DD saying something) to call them and they will immediately open the case again. She said she would be sure to note the behavior changes in DD the past two weeks. All the 'signs' that she had before are gone. DH thinks she is a completly different kid.  

My DH does not want the water from my parents turned back on. Yes it is incovenient and I would really like to turn it back on just until we get our well. BUT you know what...I am going to follow DH on this one! I have learned in the past two weeks that my DH is pretty wise and that we wouldn't be in a lot of the junk we are in right now if I would have only listened to him. I love him and I am learning a whole new respect for him. I am going to obey his wishes on this one. 

My parents don't know the water is shut off on this end, they have no way of knowing it. Even it they did.....if I could get my kids taken away from me because I do not have running water, even though we have proof we are fixing that, then I really wonder what this poor world is coming to. :Bawling: 

By the way I do not live anywhere near town so there is not codes or regulations.


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## Dente deLion (Nov 27, 2006)

Did the investigator speak with your parents? I'm very curious about how they may have explained the creepy sleeping arrangements. 

Can you ask for a copy of the full file for your records?

I'm so glad to hear that your daughter is doing so much better! That's the best news of this whole thread!


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## barnyardfun (Mar 26, 2005)

Yes they interviewed my parents exactly 2 weeks ago today. They will send me a letter in the mail that will tell me how to get a complete report from the police. The investigator also said that my parents have been continually calling her to find out what is going on and she kept telling them that she could not reveal that information. BUT! Now that the case is closed they will be informed that they can get a copy of the report also. 

I don't know what is going to happen next. Today is one of my mom's days off. I have been expecting them to show up anytime. I am a little worried because I have no idea what they are going to pull next!


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## susieM (Apr 23, 2006)

It's not too late to make the police complaint about him from when you were the kid in the story.


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## naturewoman (Nov 12, 2002)

BYF, you may want to consider this carefully. If this investigation is closed without any claims proved, and you refuse to let your parents see the grandkids again, they may sue for visitation rights. If you do file a claim against your stepdad about your own abuse, you may not be able to stop visitation rights, but you may be able to prevent it from being unsupervised.

I don't know much about the laws regarding grandparent's rights, but I would check into this.


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## Shepherd (Jan 23, 2005)

naturewoman said:


> BYF, you may want to consider this carefully. If this investigation is closed without any claims proved, and you refuse to let your parents see the grandkids again, they may sue for visitation rights. If you do file a claim against your stepdad about your own abuse, you may not be able to stop visitation rights, but you may be able to prevent it from being unsupervised.
> 
> I don't know much about the laws regarding grandparent's rights, but I would check into this.


This is my biggest concern now too!


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## Jan Doling (May 21, 2004)

It was a good investment in the water jugs, you will need them anytime your electricity goes out as your pump wonât run then. You can also use them for camping, outdoor kitchen / entertainment area, and washing veggies from the garden so dirt never has to come in the house.

Tell the kids that Papa and Nana are sickâ¦and you donât want them exposed to it!

Keep the kiddy pool at in-laws for 2 weeksâ¦.the kids probably only use it for a few hours each afternoon anyway. Make it late in the afternoon and then take them home and put on their pjs and youâll have 2 less showers to worry about! You donât have to worry about losing the kids due to the water issue as you can say you are staying for the most part at your in-laws house.

Have your DH tell your âparentsâ (they do not actually qualify for that title in my opinion!) that there are no water leaksâ¦or have him leave a message on their home phone when you know for sure they are out. Tell him not to say more than absolutely necessary, just answer the leak question.


If your parents have the nerve to show up, do not open the door or speak with them, no matter what. Let your DH do all the communication, if any.

Do your in-laws go to a different church than your parents? If so, continue letting the kids go with them and maybe you and DH could start going also, if you intend to continue on the path you have taken. The hard part is going to be turning the break for freedom into a permanent condition. You will then have to let the kids know they are not to talk to Nana and Papa and you will have to guard against Nana and Papa trying to find them away from your protection so they can brainwash them. It won't be easy, but it will be necessary. This cycle must be broken now.


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## sgl42 (Jan 20, 2004)

as far as what to tell the kids:

Perhaps having a 'good touch/bad touch' discussion with them. Someone else commented that as a child they were still expected to attend social functions the abuser was at, even after reporting the abuse, and the signal that sent them. So somehow an age-appropriate discussion that we're protecting you from grandma& grandpa, might go long way to make them understand that they're safe. 

Telling them a lie, particularly when they live close by, might backfire. And your parents are master manipulators that would try to turn any lie that your kids can detect into something against you.

Just an idea. I have no experience in this area, so it would probably be really good for those who have been abused to tell you what would have been most helpful to them. 

overall, i'm very relieved that you and your family are doing so well, so quickly, given the circumstances. I hope that cohesiveness and growth continues. best wishes...

--sgl


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## Wildwood Flower (Aug 26, 2006)

Here is a wonderful book you might like to order...for when things calm down. I had the priviledge of meeting this wonderful author years ago. I'll never forget this book. She is a very well respected expert in the field.

The book is well done and in good taste. 

A Very Touching Book by Jan Hindman, illustrated by Tom Novak


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## SherryR (Aug 7, 2005)

barnyardfun, fathers dont slap their daughter's behinds and tell them how good their butts look . . . . sleeping with grandpa, eeewwwww! Asking you to try on lingerie of your mom's, isn't that a huge red flag?!? I know you had to rationalize his creepy molesting behavior as a child, but NOW you dont have to. Keep him away from her. Do your best to save money or something, and turn his ass in to the authorities. YES your kid needs therapy!
How awful for you! How terrible for your daughter that a similar behavior (or worse) has been visited on her at age 5!!! Your mother needs her head examined too. But that's frequently the case with this kind of stuff, denial denial denial.
I am praying for you. Act quickly, never let her out of your sight!
Sherry


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## MarleneS (Aug 21, 2003)

Barnyardfun -- forgive me if it as your expense but my old heart is just tickled with the possiblity that you are on the verge of running around your place singing..."Free at last! Free at last!" Not to mention that this ordeal seems to have made your marriage and yourself so much stronger then you maybe once did realized.

Hugs,
Marlene


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## Ann-NWIowa (Sep 28, 2002)

You mentioned you were concerned about paying for your well. You might contact USDA Rural Development. There is a Rural Development 504 Home Improvement Loans and Grants program that offers long term 1% interest loans. They might be able to help you.


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## goatlady (May 31, 2002)

When I had my well drilled the driller took payments with no interst even though it took over a year to get it paid for. Never hurst to ask and certainly check out the RuralDevelopment loan programs. BTW many congradulation on your growth and a woman, gal. You have done great and now you KNOW it can be done, so it will be easier from now on. LIfe is opening doors for you.


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## gleanerl (Apr 11, 2003)

bump
anything new??
how're you doing, byf?


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## BAmaBubba (May 10, 2007)

yeah, inquiring minds and all 

Hope things are going well


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## A'sta at Hofstead (Sep 20, 2006)

BYF is probably enjoying her new found best friend, her husband!


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## dashley (Jan 23, 2005)

bump


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## Shepherd (Jan 23, 2005)

Yes, I'm anxious for an update too.


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## PBPitcher (Aug 15, 2005)

Bump - any news BYF?


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## gleanerl (Apr 11, 2003)

bump
how's things going?


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## gleanerl (Apr 11, 2003)

bump again!
get the well put in yet?
what's the scoop?


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## MarleneS (Aug 21, 2003)

gleanerl, you're bordering on giving the impression that you might just be a little too interested in other people's business, hopefully that was not the result you were looking for.

Marlene


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## A'sta at Hofstead (Sep 20, 2006)

MarleneS said:


> gleanerl, you're bordering on giving the impression that you might just be a little too interested in other people's business, hopefully that was not the result you were looking for.
> 
> Marlene


That seems a tad judgmental if you ask me, but you are not of course. 
Could it be that people care?


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## Jan Doling (May 21, 2004)

Give her a rest...no news is good news!


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## Shepherd (Jan 23, 2005)

Well I'm curious too; we were all pretty worried for their situation and she was updating us regularly. It just seems odd that it's been so long without hearing from her. I hope everything's ok.


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## MarleneS (Aug 21, 2003)

HillCrest farms, I can't decide what to wear for the day or much else without being judgemental, so I'm okay with being called judgemental, being hypocrital or dishonest I work hard at avoiding  And I'm very much into people truly caring about the welfare of their fellow sharers of the planet...could I please be given credit for waiting until glenerl had post the same request numerous times before I posted my opinion on possible motivation -- and I did give her the opportunity to disprove my assumption 

I'm just not so sure people reading this thread are aware of how painful, and difficult this is for barnyardfun and her family and my motives are to protect her. 

It's actually possible that it's a great sign that barnyardfun is at a place where she can begin to heal, and that might require that she not subject herself to what we have to say 

Hugs,
Marlene


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## gleanerl (Apr 11, 2003)

MarleneS said:


> HillCrest farms, I can't decide what to wear for the day or much else without being judgemental, so I'm okay with being called judgemental, being hypocrital or dishonest I work hard at avoiding  And I'm very much into people truly caring about the welfare of their fellow sharers of the planet...could I please be given credit for waiting until glenerl had post the same request numerous times before I posted my opinion on possible motivation -- and I did give her the opportunity to disprove my assumption
> 
> I'm just not so sure people reading this thread are aware of how painful, and difficult this is for barnyardfun and her family and my motives are to protect her.
> 
> ...


and perhaps things have went south for her and some of us are worried?
perhaps i'm not the only one who has bumped up this thread, yet for some reason you have decided that you needed to call me out?  
judgemental is not the word i'd use, but it'll work as a 'nice' euphemism at the moment.


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## gleanerl (Apr 11, 2003)

bump
is all well, byf?
sure hope so, let us know!
sorry marleneS, (deleted)


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## barnyardfun (Mar 26, 2005)

Hey! Please don't be fighting on this forum because of me. That is the last thing I need......cause another family to be in disaccord!

I am sorry I have not been on here to update. In all honesty I figured you were all tired of hearing my ongoing saga and I didn't want to be interpreted as whining about everything.

Things are going okay. No the well driller has not came out yet. Hopefully this week. We have most of the money saved up as long as he doesn't go over 150'! So now my prayer is that we hit water before then! 

I haven't been talking a whole lot about what is going on. I have just been kind of ignoring things and trying to get back to some sense of normal in my life. The kids are doing fine, happy healthy little things. They are excited right now because Daddy will be home in a few minutes with donuts. They haven't had them in ages and we thought we would give them a treat. They can't wait!

I got my DD's homeschool curriculum in last week so I have been working on that a lot to get it all ready to start maybe next week. That will give us something to take our minds off of things. Other then that we have just been spending the days together and trying to be normal. We have a creek not far from home that is perfect because it is big but never gets over a foot deep. It is great for the kids because they can play safely (as safely as you can in water!) and the dogs can cool off too.

Today is Tomato canning day. So I probably won't make it back on here today. I have 4 bushels to can! If I do get on here it is for a much needed break I am sure!  

HAVE A GOOD DAY!


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## gleanerl (Apr 11, 2003)

woo hoooo!
glad all is well.
thanks for the update!


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## Wildwood Flower (Aug 26, 2006)

So glad to hear all of your good news!


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## turtlehead (Jul 22, 2005)

Boring and normal is good


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## Shepherd (Jan 23, 2005)

barnyardfun said:


> I am sorry I have not been on here to update. In all honesty I figured you were all tired of hearing my ongoing saga...


Not at all hon; we were just worried because we'd been keeping you in our prayers & you'd been giving us regular updates - then all of the sudden you disappeared. Most of us here are genuinely concerned about your situation and your well being.

Have your parents tried contacting you anymore? How's that going? 

I hope your relationship with your husband and inlaws continue to prosper. I pray for healing for your family.


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## barnyardfun (Mar 26, 2005)

No contact from parents in awhile. My dad left a message a few days ago telling me how much he misses us and how much he loves us. The kids are starting to have a hard time with it. Everyday for the past few days they have been asking to go over there. They are not happy with just a no either....they want to know why they can't see mema and papa and when they will get to see them. I just keep saying not right now and change the subject. That is not going to last forever. I don't know what to do.

DH and I have talked about it and we agree that the kids should see them but not unsupervized. Now that is our problem because we don't want to be around them but we don't want the kids to be alone with them. I am thinking maybe going to a park where they can interact with the kids and we can sit at a different table and watch. :shrug: It will be 4 weeks this Friday. I know it is killing them not seeing the kids. I have NEVER gone this long without talking to my mom, not very often did I go more then a day without talking to my mom. This is SO HARD!

I guess out of all of this I am just scared that this will make my mom sick. She has very VERY high blood pressure and within the last year has had chest pains etc. She is overweight and has depression/anxiety problems. The last thing I want is for her to have a heartattack because of all of this. I would never be able to forgive myself. :Bawling:


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## Bink (Apr 13, 2003)

barnyardfun said:


> I am thinking maybe going to a park where they can interact with the kids and we can sit at a different table and watch.


You'd want to be within earshot, too. No whispering about keeping "our little secret" going on there.


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## dashley (Jan 23, 2005)

Bink said:


> You'd want to be within earshot, too. No whispering about keeping "our little secret" going on there.



Yes, Bink is right. If you need, go back and read your very first post. Your Mother will protect your dear Dad before your Dear Daughter.


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## AngieM2 (May 10, 2002)

And if something happens to your Mom due to blood pressure, YOU are not responsible. Her lifestyle is, and her actions have caused this.

If you do have the children visit with them, they will push harder to go see them at their house, and then they will be more able to interact with you and them.

Go talk it over more with your hubby and maybe an informed 3rd party that you trust.

Angie


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## wr (Aug 10, 2003)

I don't think this is your problem and not the kids at all. There are concerns that perhaps your father has violated your daughter and my concern is that your father will put on his good boy behavior and over time you will relax your guard . He may resume behavior next month or next week or next year but if he has abused your child, she's vulnerable to further abuse. There is nothing wrong with telling the kids that they will not be seeing the grandparents for an indefinite period of time because you have had an adult issue with them. Nothing more, they don't need details.


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## busybee870 (Mar 2, 2006)

i recommend you let your mother or both if you must visit with the kids IN THE COUNSELORS OFFICE. with you right outside. That way they are supervised, and a counselor, therapist, can see any changes in a childs behavior, around their grandparents. The step fathers actions will be closely watched as well as to reactions by your daughter. If anything happened, it will be seen. and you will have a professional expert witness, and everything will be documented, and you can go from there.


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## wr (Aug 10, 2003)

It occurred to me while I was out running errands that it may be legally not in your best interests to allow the children time with the grandparents. You've acted on your suspicions and reported it to certain authorities and if something were to come up, could you possibly be charged with failing to protect your children?


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## Terri (May 10, 2002)

OK.

If the kids see their grandparents, you MUST be there, or your husband. A park is not so good because there are bushes, trees, bathrooms and how will you watch both kids at the same time?

This is not a small matter: they are yours to guard. A McDonalds, perhaps?

As for your Mothers blood pressure, I have HAD high blood pressure and if she wants it controlled she MUST take her pills and watch her diet. It is no good pointing her finger at stress: her arteries are gunked up and apparently she would rather blame stress from the world instead of her own diet and her own meds. NOBODY is doing this, she is doing it to herself! 

You could wrap her in cotton and keep the world at bay, and she would STILL be at risk for a heart attack because she is not taking care of herself! 

Yes, anger is bad for her but the REASON that it is bad for her is because either her cholesterol or her triglycerides are high, AND SHE HAS CHOSEN TO ACCEPT THIS AND THE RISK THAT GOES WITH IT! 

Protect your kids. IF they want to see the grands, fine, but a parent or a counslor needs to be there and they MUST! stay in the room!

Anything else, and the state might decide that they are at risk because you are not protecting them.


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## Arkie1 (Jun 19, 2006)

The bottom line is which is more important, protecting your children or allowing your parents to stay in your life?

Guilt, brainwashing and past mental & other types of abuse have taken their toll on you but you CAN make childhood be a different experience for your children than yours was. Only you and your husband have the right to decide who your children see and interact with. If you allow guilt and unwarranted duty to your parents put your children at risk, could you live with the knowledge that might come to light years down the road that your kids were secretly molested or abused by your parents? :shrug: 

I'm not trying to be mean spirited, I do understand you're torn which is probably normal. But honestly, it does appear in print like you are more concerned about hurting the feelings of your dad and the loss of affection from your parents than protecting your kids. It could be just the way the written word sometimes doesn't translate well but that is how I'm reading the last few posts. :help:


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## wyld thang (Nov 16, 2005)

just curious if you ruled out any health issues like bladder infection or yeast infection?


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## Wildwood Flower (Aug 26, 2006)

barnyardfun said:


> No contact from parents in awhile. My dad left a message a few days ago telling me how much he misses us and how much he loves us. The kids are starting to have a hard time with it. Everyday for the past few days they have been asking to go over there. They are not happy with just a no either....they want to know why they can't see mema and papa and when they will get to see them. I just keep saying not right now and change the subject. That is not going to last forever. I don't know what to do.
> 
> DH and I have talked about it and we agree that the kids should see them but not unsupervized. Now that is our problem because we don't want to be around them but we don't want the kids to be alone with them. I am thinking maybe going to a park where they can interact with the kids and we can sit at a different table and watch. :shrug: It will be 4 weeks this Friday. I know it is killing them not seeing the kids. I have NEVER gone this long without talking to my mom, not very often did I go more then a day without talking to my mom. This is SO HARD!
> 
> I guess out of all of this I am just scared that this will make my mom sick. She has very VERY high blood pressure and within the last year has had chest pains etc. She is overweight and has depression/anxiety problems. The last thing I want is for her to have a heartattack because of all of this. I would never be able to forgive myself. :Bawling:


BarnyardFun:

Your thinking is getting muddled by your emotions. You need to stay COMPLETELY AWAY from your parents. Any contact will only add to the problem and give them another opening.

And IF your mother gets sick--it is not YOUR FAULT. Do not accept responsibility for another person's health--that is up to HER and God Almighty--not you! 

If your mother is overweight and has depression/anxiety problems--it's HER problem and only SHE can do something about those problems. And it has nothing to do with seeing these kids. 

She's obviously manipulated you all of your life--UNHOOK!

You already told her the deal. Now stick to it. Leave the rest up to God. 

In the meantime, get your kids active with some other children and people in the community. Take them to visit your in-laws too. It sounds like they are picking up on your emotions too.


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## Terri (May 10, 2002)

No, Arkie1, I don't think so.

I think she is trying to protect her children AND have a relationship with her parents, and I don't think she is going to succeed. I think that the parents will not allow it.

I think the parents are going to demand unsupervised time with them in exchange for her love, and that is the ONE! thing that a parent cannot give.

She is trying to tell herself that he parents would not be so badly behaved, but she is afraid that they will be. And, since they have made her feel guilty for her Mothers health problems and her Fathers attention, which no normal parent would do, she is probably correct. Her parents will continue to behave badly, and she will continue to HOPE that they will reform.

Even if they show no signs of it. She is not trying to put her parents above her kids, she is trying to figure out how to have both.

I don't think her parents will cooperate.


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## Jan Doling (May 21, 2004)

You know for a fact that your step-father is sick (he abused you). You know that your mother enables this disease. Tell the kids they are sick and you don't want them exposed to it. If you feel you have to expose the kids to this sickness, then only allow it under professional supervision. Call the county and see what facilities are available for supervised visitation and use those. Break the cycle now, girl, or he will continue to abuse kids.


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## sancraft (Jun 7, 2002)

You and your children need to seek counseling.


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## Kstornado11 (Mar 17, 2006)

Hmmm... I'm confused.Your kids were possibly molested by this man, and you were as well, and you are considering letting them visit him?? Am I missing something here? :shrug:


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## dashley (Jan 23, 2005)

bump


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## dashley (Jan 23, 2005)

just know that none of us are trying to look down at you at all!! Some of us have been through this and KNOW how you are feeling. Emotions run very high when people we have been close all our lives are involved. It is easy to let your guard down and think that maybe you were wrong or maybe nothing really happen. I always thought that too but then I KNEW I had to put my Child first and lean towards caution first, no matter how I was feeling or how much I wanted to believe it didn't really happen. You must know how disappointed I was years later to find out that it was all true and relieved at the same time that I had always leaned towards caution.............

God Bless you!!


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## Ann-NWIowa (Sep 28, 2002)

I agree with others who have said you should not let the kids see their grandparents. First of all, it could land you in trouble for child endangerment no matter how careful you are. Just the fact you let the kids see them or them see the kids.

Next problem is the kids will think its okay to see them. One day soon they will be old enough to walk across the road. (My 5 year old snuck off and walked a mile crossing a major highway to get to her grandmother's when she was po'd at me.) If you let them see their grandparents again now after you've done this battle once, you'll have to do it all over again. They'll whine and whine to go AGAIN. 

You are obviously a soft hearted person who likes everyone to be happy. On this issue I think you need to get tough. Keep the kids safe. That means saying no to seeing the grandparents. Talk it over with dh and decide what to tell the kids when they ask and both of you use the same exact words each time you them tell no. Once they get it through their heads you are not going to cave, they'll move on. As for your parents and their issues with health and otherwise, well they're adults who've brought this down on their own heads, so hang tough. No matter what they say, you are not the problem THEY ARE.


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## barnyardfun (Mar 26, 2005)

dashley said:


> just know that none of us are trying to look down at you at all!! Some of us have been through this and KNOW how you are feeling. Emotions run very high when people we have been close all our lives are involved. It is easy to let your guard down and think that maybe you were wrong or maybe nothing really happen. I always thought that too but then I KNEW I had to put my Child first and lean towards caution first, no matter how I was feeling or how much I wanted to believe it didn't really happen. You must know how disappointed I was years later to find out that it was all true and relieved at the same time that I had always leaned towards caution.............
> 
> God Bless you!!


Thank you so much Dashley.....that is EXACTLY how I feel about all of this. Maybe now hearing it from someone else Exactly how I am feeling I can tell myself that I am not crazy and am doing the right thing. It is just so hard! I feel like they are my parents and I should love and repect them no matter what. I still hate to think that maybe I am wrong about all of this and I will deprive a relationship between grandparents and kids. I guess I just keep trying to tell myself that none of this has happened and everything will go back to normal. In so many ways I just want things to go back to the way they were. BUT in so many other ways I know those things weren't right and it is not heathly to me or my kids to go back that way.

I just feel like it is never going to end! :Bawling: My mom called twice tonight....first time in a week. She didn't leave a message. Just about the time I relax a little bit and try to get back to some normalcy they start calling again. :shrug:


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## Arkie1 (Jun 19, 2006)

BYF, could you have your phone number changed? That might be the fastest way to stop the continuous calls. Just don't have the phone company put that recording on that tells callers that your number has been changed and then gives the new number.

I truly hope you find some peace and a way to come to terms with the past so you can feel less stress about your decision.

I'm another one who was a survivor of an abusive past, so you're not alone; it looks like there's quite a few HT members who have shared that sad past.((((hugs)))))

How did the well drilling finally end up; do you have water now?


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## barnyardfun (Mar 26, 2005)

Arkie1 said:


> BYF, could you have your phone number changed? That might be the fastest way to stop the continuous calls. Just don't have the phone company put that recording on that tells callers that your number has been changed and then gives the new number.
> 
> I truly hope you find some peace and a way to come to terms with the past so you can feel less stress about your decision.
> 
> ...


Thank you for you kind words, they mean a lot. I really don't want to have my # changed. I have unplugged the house phone because I can't screen the calls on it so I just don't answer it at all. They call my cell phone when they call. I would hate to have to change my number because of them! That just seems like such an inconvenience for something that is not my fault! :flame: But your right, I may have to do that just to save me the heartache of seeing them call.

OH! And about the well.....I posted all that here http://homesteadingtoday.com/showthread.php?t=199934


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## susieM (Apr 23, 2006)

Don't do it!


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## suzfromWi (Jun 1, 2002)

I have been following this thread closely, but haven't posted till now. Because you are still having doubts about the kids seeing the grandparents, I went back to your very first post on this. The fact that your dad slept in the bed with your DD and your mom slept in the bed with your DS, red flags are all over the place. That is just weird. I would never ever think of having that arrangment in this house. The child would either sleep with both of us or in another bed entirely. If there isn't another bed available, a sleeping bag on the floor works. That and the fact that you Know in your heart something bad happened to this girl should be enough for you to protect her with all your might. Your father has a major problem and should not be around any of you. I'm sorry you miss your mom but she is culpable for allowing this behavior. We should honor our parents IF they are honorable. God Bless you for all your going through but you have to be strong for that child and maybe even you son.....


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## Wildwood Flower (Aug 26, 2006)

BYF,
Changing your phone numbers might be an inconvenience, but it would be a good first step in cutting the cord for you. I just feel like you are leaving too many back doors open. 

I agree, you need to get some counseling to work through this. It's amazing how talking to an expert can help. 

Your parents are not going to change. But YOU can.


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## coryy (Nov 6, 2005)

I was the abused eldest daughter of a drunk. i got out, he got sober, i ignored my family as best i could--i missed my sister's graduation, my sibs had surgeries and i didn't even know they were in the hospital, and I worked, got married, had kids....when i was years removed from the situation, i was still emotionally shattered by it. I was worried about my kids not knowing their grandparents, until a doctor i trust told me, "your children need a strong, present, healthy, mom, who they know will protect them and keep them safe, far more than they need grandparents". YOu are still in the thick of things. It's too soon to even think of opening up to the grandparents again--doing so will only convince them they've won.
your family unit is you, dh, kids, now. you can do this. the kids need you and they need to know you'll defend them. just keep not answering the phone. I know it's hard.


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## barnyardfun (Mar 26, 2005)

coryy said:


> I was the abused eldest daughter of a drunk. i got out, he got sober, i ignored my family as best i could--i missed my sister's graduation, my sibs had surgeries and i didn't even know they were in the hospital, and I worked, got married, had kids....when i was years removed from the situation, i was still emotionally shattered by it. I was worried about my kids not knowing their grandparents, until a doctor i trust told me, "your children need a strong, present, healthy, mom, who they know will protect them and keep them safe, far more than they need grandparents". YOu are still in the thick of things. It's too soon to even think of opening up to the grandparents again--doing so will only convince them they've won.
> your family unit is you, dh, kids, now. you can do this. the kids need you and they need to know you'll defend them. just keep not answering the phone. I know it's hard.


Thank you! :Bawling: :Bawling: :Bawling: Maybe when I quit crying and think about this a little more I will come back and write! Kids are going to wonder what's wrong with mommy again!


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## Ardie/WI (May 10, 2002)

It's all right to cry because you're mouning the loss of a fantasy you had. The fantasy of having parents who love you and sincerely care for you and your children. Sadly, they don't.

I had to deal with something similar a long time ago. For years, I wanted a "normal" mother and a "normal" grandmother for my children. It hurt a lot when I came to the realization that it would never happen.

But, after awhile, it made me stronger.

You have a wonderful husband, great children and even good in-laws. You don't need your parents and your children certainly don't either. Go on with your life and CHANGE THAT DARN PHONE NUMBER!


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## Wildwood Flower (Aug 26, 2006)

Barnyardfun,

I really feel that after your initial mourning, you are going to realize that a whole lot of crap died out of you too when you take the courage to end this relation with your parents.

You have a wonderful husband and children. You have a chance to have a very healthy and wholesome life. I know you're young, but it's time to grow up, face the grief, and unload it. 

Every day is a new day, and wonderful people will come into your life. Leave this garbage behind you. Change the phone number.

Another thing, I don't know about you, but I "adopted" my mother-in-law. Can you confide in your mother-in-law? Hope so. You two can become very close. Read the book of RUTH.


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## Bink (Apr 13, 2003)

In my experience, it's the ones who can make the break from their abusive families who become strong and stay sane. The ones who try to hang in there despite everything tend to make themselves crazy in trying to believe the lies they have to tell themselves in order to stay (i.e.: they really love me, they just don't know how to show it).

And yes, it's okay to cry and mourn. In fact, it's necessary.


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## dashley (Jan 23, 2005)

Hang in there!! We are all here for you!!


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## js2743 (Dec 4, 2006)

have i missed something has the child been asked if someone touched her in bad places? or did you even ask her if someone did ?


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## gleanerl (Apr 11, 2003)

change the phone # and think of it as "moving"...
spiritually.
go from there, add contacts and numbers as needed.


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## barnyardfun (Mar 26, 2005)

js2743 said:


> have i missed something has the child been asked if someone touched her in bad places? or did you even ask her if someone did ?


You will have to read back thru the post. This is a long saga that has been going on for 4 weeks. Yes, she has been to a child advocate, state investigator, detective, etc. They were not able to come up with any suffeciant evidence but said that it was not something we could completely rule out. Case was closed. Now it is up to me to set the guide lines of what I feel is right. And it is very hard! She is my daughter and I will do anything and everything to protect her, but that doesn't mean that it is not hard when it involves your own parents.


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## dashley (Jan 23, 2005)

byf, mine was too investigated and nothing happen with that either. And yes it is up to you to set the limits. It is a struggle at best. 

All the feeling you are having are very much normal!! If you have a Church family that helps. That was the way I dealt with it pretty much, it was my husband though and I didn't have anyone else in the home to lean on. Many night's I went to sleep with a wet pillow from all the tears. Lot's of things go through your head during this time. But you hang in there.

God Bless!!


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## Feral Nature (Feb 21, 2007)

Ultimately, you must trust your instincts.

You are a mother first and a daughter second.

Your job is to protect and nuture your offspring at any cost.

You can and will succeed and in so doing you will gain more than what you have lost and what you may lose. 

Stay fierce....even a momma hen will strike the hand that feeds it if her chicks are threatened.


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## Jan Doling (May 21, 2004)

Let's hear from those who have been abused....or if you know someone who has, ask this question:

Would not having to be in contact with the abuser have helped you?

If your mother had opted to cut all ties with the abuser for your sake, would it have made a difference to you?

Please post the answers ...the well being of a child may rely on a mother being able to see it in print.


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## dashley (Jan 23, 2005)

Jan Doling said:


> If your mother had opted to cut all ties with the abuser for your sake, would it have made a difference to you?



She doesn't know it but the answer is yes! Everyone involved wouldn't be suffering the way they are. It takes a very strong person to break this pattern. I believe she has what it takes.


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## barnyardfun (Mar 26, 2005)

My question is if all of this did happen and my DD was abused.....why does she love them so much and want to go over there?? Now don't get me wrong....she has really changed since she has stopped seeing them but she still asked to go over there occationally and looks pretty hurt when we say no. She quit asking as often here lately I think because she sensed something was wrong and I always said no. DH talked to her and DS a few days ago and told them that is will be a long time before we see them again because some grown up stuff has happened and right now we just can't see them. He told them that we loved them (the kids) very much and that it was our responsiblity to take care of them the best we can and this is something we have to do to keep them safe. They didn't ask questions, and they haven't asked since then. I just don't want them to hurt. DD has still never said anything that would prove that something happened to her. :shrug:


It is all just so confusing....I don't want to over react and hurt people that didn't do anything and I don't want to under react and find out later that my DD was being hurt. It is just such a conflict of emotions and really makes it hard to get thru the days!


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## Jan Doling (May 21, 2004)

Your DD is too young to know better now....in years to come the feeling of shame might overwhelm her. 

Too bad Adam and Eve did not have someone to say "no" for them....they had to suffer the consequences for their lack of knowledge. Granted they weren't only 5 years old and they had been warned.

Remember you know for a fact how he treated you before you were old enough to resist.


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## Idahoe (Feb 4, 2006)

Jan Doling said:


> Let's hear from those who have been abused....or if you know someone who has, ask this question:
> 
> Would not having to be in contact with the abuser have helped you?
> 
> ...


YES. Absolutely. My father was an alcoholic, had rages and would beat my sister and I. I think because he was violent, and it is so obviously wrong to me, it was "easier" to see him for what he was, sexual abuse is VERY difficult for a child to differentiate from caring/love, sometimes.

I know it would have made a huge difference. I was angry with my mother for years for "staying". I understand her now, love her and have forgiven her completely. But it still stands that if she HAD left him, my sister and I would have been spared the abuse.

I would have learned at an earlier age that my life, my welfare are IMPORTANT. It took me years to come to this conclusion on my own. Children need to know this from birth  not have to climb out of a pit to discover they are worthwhile, lovable human beings deserving of respect.


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## Bink (Apr 13, 2003)

Jan Doling said:


> Would not having to be in contact with the abuser have helped you?
> 
> If your mother had opted to cut all ties with the abuser for your sake, would it have made a difference to you?



_Yes._


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## sgl42 (Jan 20, 2004)

barnyardfun said:


> My question is if all of this did happen and my DD was abused.....why does she love them so much and want to go over there??
> [....]
> I just don't want them to hurt. DD has still never said anything that would prove that something happened to her. :shrug:
> 
> It is all just so confusing....I don't want to over react and hurt people that didn't do anything and I don't want to under react and find out later that my DD was being hurt. It is just such a conflict of emotions and really makes it hard to get thru the days!


First, "beyond a shadow of a doubt" is a courtroom standard, not the standard you should use as a parent protecting your children. If you or your husband ever have doubts about anyone's actions towards your children, or level of responsibility, then act first rather than be sorry later. 

Second, your DD still cares about them for the same reason you still care. From what I've read about abusers (no first hand experience here), they give you a lot of abuse, and a little bit of "love", such that you keep thinking that "if i can just be a little better person, maybe they'll love me all the time." Of course that's not what's really going on, the abuser is manipulating the emotions of the abused, and making the abused think the problem is due to the abused, but the real problem is due to the abuser. Your DD is far to young to recongnize that; look how hard a time you're having to recognize it and follow thru with it and you have vastly more life experience than she does. (This isn't meant as a criticism of your actions, as I think you're doing a great job, but as a way of explaining your daughter's reaction.)

Finally, as for your DD and DS "missing out" on a relationship with these grandparents, I'd say they're missing out on all the guilt trips that will be put on them, and all the "turning off the water" punishments that would be delivered to them in the future for "misbehaving." In short, I'd say you're sparing them from all the emotional turmoil that you're experiencing right now. 

I'm sorry you and your family are going thru this. Best wishes...
--sgl


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## simplefarmgirl (Mar 31, 2006)

I posted along time ago, or so it seems in this post. I was abused by my step father from age of 4-14, I hated him with a passion,especially every time my mother would stick up for him and i got a spanking for something that was not in my control.I can remember getting the worse spanking(beating) of my life when I was 10 and I was wiping off the table after supper and my step father was sitting there and he touched the back side of my leg, I cringed with fear, my mother saw him but i got the beating, becuz i didnt move away. He had always threaten me by if you dont do as i say i will go after your sister,, My sister i tried to protect brought this up to my mother just acouple yrs ago and she said she didnt rememebr any such things, like being hurt all over again, My mother was suppose to protect me, Iwas suppose to be first and important but every yr i can remember being moved to my aunt Jane's house for my own good, ( good excuse).. She wouldnt leave him for me, she had 4 other children two which were his step kids and 2 that were his own. Every time i got sent away he would take them to the beaches and fairs and always tell them he could afford it when i was there, thats why they never did anything. When step father died in 1986 I flew to Fla for the first time in a blizzard just to make sure he was dead. I may sound heartless, but if my mom had of chose me over her husband which in my heart I think she knew some thing was wrong, there probably would nt be s many things that bother me, and might not have such a hard time trusting people, It really sucks when you meet someone for the first time and you watch cautiously everything they do to see if any thing isnt right,suck to be on guard, I watch every one around my daughters and grand daughters terribly, and alot of the time there is no need its just old habits are hard to break, I speak to my mom now, but we arent what you call close as i would like, I would do anything for her but weeks go by we dont speak only maybe a quick pm on computer not actual talking. NO matter who feeling you may hurt always put your children first----always----If they didnt do anything then at some point they will understand your loyality to your child. If something did happen then your children have been protected from it happening again.. I feel for you,, I know where you stand and how you feel.


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## RachAnn in NW Okla (Aug 28, 2002)

I have refrained from posting on this thread because it LITERALLY makes me nauseous



simplefarmgirl said:


> When step father died in 1986 I flew to Fla for the first time in a blizzard just to make sure he was dead.


I can soooooooo relate!! I can remember in detail the manipulative abuse...

like piggyback rides....Think about the position this puts on a child's body....where do you put your hands to help support their weight????

When my abuser died, ya know when you throw the handful of dirt on the casket out of respect? I did it as my way of helping to make sure he was dead and buried!!! and it was rocks that I threw in!

I would much better be too cautious and avoid the possible encounters, than not being cautious enough and my child grow into an adult who mistrusts many people and has sexual dysfunction......there are many issues/disorders that abuse can cause....including OCD, obesity, bulimia, and anorexia...these are all disorders that "allow" you to be in control of some part of your life

Take care and BRAVO for doing what you know in your heart is right
Rachel


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## dashley (Jan 23, 2005)

BYF, something happen to you when you were young, that alone would tell you there is a problem, it is real easy to doubt yourself. But don't your instinct has told you there is a problem. Your Childs well being is what is most important. It is more important than your parents feelings. It may take time for your daughter to feel comfortable in talking to you. But there are signs that she will display. You should seek counseling!! There are programs that will help you with the cost. Check around. We were in counseling for years. We went through Human Services at one point. After a few years of this I was told that all it was doing was reminding her of it and it was time to stop. 
One of the things they did with her was have her draw pictures and when they did, she drew a picture of everyone in the family. Everyone had clothes on but her and her Dad. She was 5 at the time. They have ways of getting to the truth. But even after all that I still doubted it. It wasn't until she was 11 that I knew for sure.


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## oldgaredneck (Jan 2, 2007)

I have read this entire thread -
My humble opinion - 
File charges for your abuse!
CHANGE YOUR PHONE NUMBERS!!!!
God bless you , your DH and your kids!


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## susieM (Apr 23, 2006)

They proved themselves when they cut off your water.


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## MarleneS (Aug 21, 2003)

I'm going to step out on a limb, again, and post something that even I feel is very uncomfortable knowing. If you are overly sensitive or easily upset please do not read past this point.

A child does not have the mental nor emotional ability to tell the difference between a touch out of love and comfort from an act of sexual abuse. It is abuse because a child does not yet have the emotions to deal with such things, is likely to not even know about what it actually is that is happening to them.

Abusers often justify their actions by convincing themselves that the child actually likes the attention. Calling it a sickness doesn't make it any easier to accept, by those of us who know how damaging and wrong it is.

Abusers outside and away from their evil actions, treat the abused as special, well loved, give them material things, attention, and all things each of us crave - the abused, especially at a young and tender age see all of it as okay. It feels good...up to a point. The damage this does to a young mind can lead to problems thoughout the entire rest of their lives.

As adults it is our place to protect children from such people. No matter how much they have loved, and cared about us and our children otherwise. These urges are so strong in the abusers psychic it isn't true but best to believe they can't help themselves so we MUST protect ourselves and our children from them.

Sorry if this upsets anyone, it's one of those things about life it would be sooo much easier to never ever have to know, nor have to ever deal with on a personal level.

Hugs,
Marlene


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## Bink (Apr 13, 2003)

MarleneS said:


> Abusers outside and away from their evil actions, treat the abused as special, well loved, give them material things, attention, and all things each of us crave - the abused, especially at a young and tender age see all of it as okay. It feels good...up to a point. The damage this does to a young mind can lead to problems thoughout the entire rest of their lives.


Yes. It teaches them that their worth as a human being is tied to their sexuality. It teaches them that sex is their primary worth. Not a good thing for your child to learn. Not a good way for them to live. What we learn early is for keeps. Our brains soak everything up like a sponge at that age, and it sticks like glue. Better to prevent it than to spend a lifetime trying to change it.


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## Gailann Schrader (May 10, 2002)

When my son was little, he was fondled by an older FEMALE cousin. Older being 4 years or more older. I happened upon them and removed him from the situation. I had "seen" this pattern of hers emerging over several incidents prior. When I quizzed him about what happened? He told me that he NEVER wanted to have "insect." What the ? She even knew the correct words. What had happened to HER to begin this? I was horrified. If you can't trust family, who can you trust? 

Anyway, I got my son counseling. I wanted counseling for his older cousin as well? But my then husband and his mother told me it happens in EVERY family - it did to them and THEY were ok. The female cousin would "grow out of it." Uh, no. My husband and MIL were both alcoholics. They then told me this: my MIL was sexually abused by her father for years. Her mother died and he "needed" someone. So she allowed it to keep her younger sisters safe. My husband told me his cousin fondled him. They were angry with me for insisting on getting couseling for my son. My son was 3. He was THEIR responsibility as well.

MY family was not structured like that and I didn't want my beloved son to think it's ok to subordinate others in that way. That was pretty much the end of my marriage.

I believe you are not only standing up for your children and saying, "ENOUGH!"? You are standing up for the child in you that couldn't. Remember how helpless you felt and how you wish someone would have said "NO!"? Your children want you to protect them from what you weren't.

Stay strong. Stay safe. Be well.


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## elliemaeg (May 1, 2005)

I had an uncle who abused his only child. She told her mother and when her Dad was confronted he denied it. Her mother repremanded her for making up the story.(She was 8or 9yo) The abuse stopped when the mother was told. 
Years later,my uncle would come to my house when I had my girls and I would watch him like a hawk. The last time he came , I was cooking supper for all my Mom's family and had my cousin watching him(pretending to keep an eye on the girls). She came running in and said uncle wanted to take them for a walk and wouldn't take no for an answer. I told her absolutely not to let them out of her sight. My aunt got her feelings hurt and my mothers family mentioned it hadn't happened again and he seemed to be alright. They never came back to my house. I didn't care as long as my children were safe they could all get angry. A few months later my Mom called to say the uncle was in Florida. Why? He had molested his own granddaughter and his daughter had called the law. What if I had thought he had changed? My thought is this: If a man truely changed, he would never want to be alone with a child and would never be overly friendly with little girls again out of knowing the consequences of his actions and to keep folks from accusing.
Along with change would come true repentance to anyone his actions affected and the shame of knowing what his actions would do to the life of his victim. I don't think you can be overly cautious in these circumstances but can not be cautious enough.


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## MarleneS (Aug 21, 2003)

elliemaeg said:


> I had an uncle who abused his only child. She told her mother and when her Dad was confronted he denied it. Her mother repremanded her for making up the story.(She was 8or 9yo) The abuse stopped when the mother was told.
> Years later,my uncle would come to my house when I had my girls and I would watch him like a hawk. The last time he came , I was cooking supper for all my Mom's family and had my cousin watching him(pretending to keep an eye on the girls). She came running in and said uncle wanted to take them for a walk and wouldn't take no for an answer. I told her absolutely not to let them out of her sight. My aunt got her feelings hurt and my mothers family mentioned it hadn't happened again and he seemed to be alright. They never came back to my house. I didn't care as long as my children were safe they could all get angry. A few months later my Mom called to say the uncle was in Florida. Why? He had molested his own granddaughter and his daughter had called the law. What if I had thought he had changed? My thought is this: If a man truely changed, he would never want to be alone with a child and would never be overly friendly with little girls again out of knowing the consequences of his actions and to keep folks from accusing.
> Along with change would come true repentance to anyone his actions affected and the shame of knowing what his actions would do to the life of his victim. I don't think you can be overly cautious in these circumstances but can not be cautious enough.


Thanks for sharing. I agree that people with these urges/needs/desires do not change so much as they, at best, attempt to keep themselves under control. I would never ever give them the opportunity to test their strengths by leaving a child alone with them. I'm sorry for the hand they have been dealt in life but a child's well being far far outweighs concerns about hurting an adults feelings.

Hugs,
Marlene


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## Dente deLion (Nov 27, 2006)

barnyardfun said:


> My question is if all of this did happen and my DD was abused.....why does she love them so much and want to go over there??


Even though your daughter is young, her mental and emotional reactions are VERY complex. She would never be able to understand it and explain it to you right now, but that doesn't mean it isn't there. Even if she was not specifically told it's her fault, she still feels that way. She feels guilty for having done something so bad that she broke the whole family - even if she doesn't know what she might have done to cause it, she still blames herself. If only she had been better ... if only she hadn't cried when you touched her pants (I could be wrong about that detail - been awhile since I read post #1 - but I'm referring to the initial incident that made you think something was wrong).

I'm glad your DH talked to the kids, and I'm glad he told them it was "an adult problem." Perhaps more of that, if the subject arises again, will help convince her it was not her fault. She does love them - they are her grandparents, and for most of her life that seemed like a good thing. But even more than that, she loves you, and is looking to you to hold her close. Don't let go.


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## Bink (Apr 13, 2003)

barnyardfun said:


> My question is if all of this did happen and my DD was abused.....why does she love them so much and want to go over there?? Now don't get me wrong....she has really changed since she has stopped seeing them but she still asked to go over there occationally and looks pretty hurt when we say no.


She can still love them but hope they won't do _that_ anymore. Your kids still love you if you spank them, right? She doesn't know what sexual abuse is, she doesn't know that it isn't "just something grownups do". She doesn't know that it's a sick sick sick situation. You do.


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## barnyardfun (Mar 26, 2005)

Bink said:


> She can still love them but hope they won't do _that_ anymore. Your kids still love you if you spank them, right? She doesn't know what sexual abuse is, she doesn't know that it isn't "just something grownups do". She doesn't know that it's a sick sick sick situation. You do.


Thank you....that makes it make more sense in my mind. She has no guidelines (that are what parents are for!) for her to follow to understand that those things are wrong yet.....she is just a baby! :Bawling: I am going to do my darndest (  I am sure that isn't a word!) to make sure that she is safe, nomatter what it takes.

My mom tried calling me a couple times yesterday.....never left a messege. Then she emailed and said that we at least needed to tell them what was going on face to face and they only wanted to see the kids. Dad called an left a messege Friday and all I remember about it is that he started out by saying "This is Daddy...."(insert the hebby jebbys smiley here) and today he left a messegs that said "hey if you get a chance to read the bible, that is IF you read the bible anymore, then read Eph 6 starting at verse 1 and then the rest of it goes into slavery.....don't know if you are into that or not but just thought you ought to read it." As most of you know the slavery jab is because they think my DH rules me (HE IS MY HUSBAND!! I do as the bible commands....he is the ruler of the household!) they just say that because they have lost their control over me!!

I need to do some studying right now.....I am going to write them and letter and let them know how we are doing and that I have no intentions of seeing or speaking to them ever again, and they can shut off their precious water because we don't need it! :dance: ....I also want to give them some scriptures that show that I am grown and they don't have 'control' over me anymore and that my DH IS the head of the household. (if anyone knows scriptures to back this up I would greatly appreciate the help) 

I am DONE!! I am going to break my ties with them completely. I WILL NOT take it anymore! I CAN'T! I WILL NOT deal with this anymore because it is not healthy for me or my family. NO MORE!! :hobbyhors


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## frazzlehead (Aug 23, 2005)

Glad you're finding your strength, BYF.  You've had lots of good advice here, from folks who've been there and done that, and it's great to see you doing your darndest (yup, it's a word!) to make sure your kids won't be among the next "been there done that" generation. Good for you! Good for all of you! 

One suggestion ... don't send that letter right away - sit on it for awhile. The *writing* of it will free you in so many ways, and that is the important part. Sending it, though, might have some legal ramifications, so after you've sat on it and you and your DH are comfortable with it and sure it reflects exactly what you mean, maybe check with the nice social worker person you were talking to (the one you called when your water got shut off and you were worried someone would take your kids cause you had no water ... I remember you saying she was really supportive & helpful, so I am thinking she'd be a good resource for you on this). Maybe she will have some advice for you.

As for scripture, how about a man shall leave his father and mother and cleave to his wife and the two shall become one?  You are UNITED on this issue ... it has nothing to do with your DH bossing you around and 'cutting you off from your loving parents' - YOU chose, and HE is supporting YOU! 

And a good man he is, too. 

Keep on keepin' on, love to you all.


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## Dente deLion (Nov 27, 2006)

NO! Don't write them a letter! That is just the same as taking their phone calls and just the same as getting trapped in conversation with them - in ANY communication you are doing nothing more than taking the bait! Please, don't do it! Write the letter if it helps you clarify your thoughts, but then tear it up - do not send it!


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## susieM (Apr 23, 2006)

Your daughter loves them for the same reason you still do. And look where that's got you.


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## Guest (Aug 14, 2007)

Hi sweet BYF!

I hardly ever have the time to write anything, but I've seen this thread & your struggle and I really want to tell you a few things. Maybe it will help with all the complex feelings and questions you are having!
A lot of other people have already given great advice but here are my added thoughts.

On: "why does she love them so much and want to go over there??"

OK, when I was young I was put in fostercare -for other reasons then sexual abuse- & was transfered to a different school because of that. 
I made friends with a girl there called Mary. (fictional name given here for privacy) She was 12 and I was 13. She had an after-school pianoteacher who was GREAT according to her. All her other girlfriends loved him as well, he was totally cool & fun & they loved to hang out at his place. 
She asked me to hang out there after school as well, but for reasons I can't remember anymore now I never really got to go. 
One day she came to school just GLOWING with happiness, clutching her belly. I asked her what was up and she said in the happiest voice ever that she thought she might be pregnant. The guy, btw, was 42. 
Because of my own history (I did things at 13 that would make 30-year olds blush) I wasn't even really shocked by that, even though she had never let on before that they were intimate. But despite the fact that I, at that age, didn't think it was a big deal (go figure) I did tell her that it was wrong. 
She became mad and said that he LOVED her, they were going to be together always, she was special, he was going to leave his wife for her and they were just madly in love. They had been together for 4 years already (calculate back...) and she had to keep it a secret because otherwise his wife would be mad & block the divorce. 
... Anyway, long story short; We went & bought her a test & she wasn't pregnant. This broke her heart, she was very upset. She WANTED to be pregnant by him, she was very much in love and thought this would make him leave his wife, who was an evil youknowwhat according to her, and who was also the only reason they had to keep it a secret & why she couldn't be with him. Remember, she was TWELVE.

Not long after I was transferred to another foster-home & we completely lost touch. I never warned anyone, I had my own problems at the time. 
OK, 2 years later there was a big story in the news. A pianoteacher in that same (very small) town had been arrested; He was charged with many, many offences, he had basically abused all his students, there wasn't just 1 special one like Mary, there were dozens. 
When I heard about it I just thought of how heartbroken she must have been. He gave her the feeling she was SPECIAL and it turned out he was just after 1 thing, and her age was the only attractive thing about her for him. I've never seen her after I was transferred but I've always felt so sorry for her. She obviously didn't see it as abuse herself at the time, but I'm SURE that once she got older & gained enough life-experience to see this guy for what he really was, she must have been HORRIFIED and extremely hurt by realising what had actually happened to her and what she had let him do & get away with. 
The bottom-line & what's of value for you in answering your question though is that this guy created an enviroment where she & her girlfriends were comfortable. He was totally cool, he let the older ones smoke pot, wasn't stuck-up like their parents and seriously, all of the other girls I knew at that time who knew him as well thought he was AWESOME. 
He just probably had a little secret with all of them, but they were too young to realise what a manipulating *** he was. They didn't have the life-experience to realise he was sweet to them just to get something in return. 
And this is what's happening to your daughter as well and why she wants to see him. Of course he's great & sweet and a swell grandfather. That way it will be easier for him to control her. The spanking metaphore was fantastic. You don't stop loving your parents when they send you to your room or give you a warning smack on the butt or something. Your daughter doesn't connect the dots yet and especially when time passes, the bad memory will fade & the thoughts of gramps giving her candy stay. 

OK, I know this is long but I really feel for you, so I wanted to say 2 more things: On this: "I don't want to over react and hurt people that didn't do anything" 

Honey, he DID do something. You keep on downplaying what happened to YOU. But he's NOT someone who didn't do anything. He DID.
I know it must be incredibly hard for you to deal with this and I realise that the "being a concerned mother" part is more important then the "taking care of yourself" part, but don't completely dismiss your own hurt in the process, OK? 

OK, and the last bit:
You've mentioned that your mom is depressed, stressed out, has health-problems etc, etc, and that this is possibly your fault & you don't want to add to that. 
Ok....
Erm....
*cough*
You think YOU are giving her stress? How about her husband??? 

Let's look at this objectively & remove the family angle. 
Imagine your best female friend stays over at your house. Imagine something happens between her and your husband. You'd be MAD, right? And let's say that your husband says he was half-asleep and didn't know what he was doing at the time. 
But, here's the catch, he still keeps on commenting on her sexyness and slaps her on the butt IN FRONT OF YOU. Oh, and he also insists that when another female friend of yours sleeps over, he's in the bed with her -this is the part where the "I was half-asleep" excuse can be used multiple times, btw.- 
Either way, wouldn't you be LIVID and accuse your husband of cheating then? 
Now, think of your mom. Her husband CHEATS. That's enough to give any woman stress. 
But worse, he's doing it with her daughter/granddaughter and who knows whatever other girls he can get his hands on.
THAT is what is stressing her out and making her depressed. She knows and it's making her sick inside.
Personally, even though what she's doing (enabling him) is WRONG, I wouldn't judge her as harshly as you'd judge him. She has probably been brainwashed to a point where she will do/allow anything as long as she doesn't have to be alone & without him. Because being alone would mean having to face herself, and she probably can't even look in the mirror at this point. 
Again, she is completely out of line and misguided and should be horribly ashamed of herself, but from what you wrote she reminds me a bit of Mary. 

Another thought that I wanted to write down... When he cried on the phone, it wasn't because he couldn't see you. It was because he was TERRIFIED that he'd been caught. He cried for himself, not for you. Please remember that.

Ack, and I know this is LOOOONG but I just really wanted to make some time for you & write anything that might help or give you comfort. 
I wish you all the strenght and love in the world. I can't tell you what to do but maybe my comments helped a bit in re-affirming your belief that keeping your daughter away from him is the right thing to do. It really is, you know? If you don't, he'll slowly build up confidence again & make your daughter believe that it's OK to keep a secret. Because he's just a sweet grandpa. 
And it's completely normal to sleep in the same bed. And grand-daddy CAN'T be held accountable if he's half-asleep every time something happens.... Right?
Honestly, if anything, please realise that this is his ploy, that this is how he operates. Most guys like him have a method to get what they want (as safely for them as possible so that they won't get caught), and this is his. He makes sure he's actually in bed with them during a sleep-over, so that he can say he was ASLEEP... And therefore he can't be held accountable & always has an excuse handy when his wife-whoever asks questions. 
I mean, he used this ploy on YOU and got away with it, right? Why do you think he wants to sleep next to her as well?

Ok, now I'll really wrap it up. Promise! 
Hope you will continue to do great. I think you are doing all the right things & hope one day, you'll be able to just enjoy life with your husband and kids instead of having to deal with all this.


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## Guest (Aug 14, 2007)

Yay! I see you wrote something while I was writing my post, & it looks like you have a healthy dose of "ENOUGH IS ENOUGH!!!" going on, lol

Again, wishing you all the best.


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## barnyardfun (Mar 26, 2005)

Kitty-cat thank you so much for taking the time to write down all of that! :angel: It's amazing....about the time I start getting those feelings of doubt that keep telling me that this can't be happening or I looked to much into things or he couldn't have possibly done this.......then someone writes something like that and hits the nail right on the head. It helps me realize that YES it is VERY possible! In my mind I just can't fathom someone doing this so I keep trying to tell myself that it just isn't possible and what happened to me was just a mistake/accident. You guys keep me grounded and help me understand that this is the kind of thinking that was been 'bred' into me. I was raised like that so he could get by with this stuff. BUT finding this stuff out now feels like hitting a brick wall! Realizing that everything you grew up with could have just been a big game for his satisfaction! :Bawling:


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## wr (Aug 10, 2003)

I find their aggresive attempts to make contact with you very creepy. I'm sure you are a very nice person but I can't think of many people so nice that I would push, whine, snivel and goad to maintain contact. I keep thinking they want to be near the children so he can continue doing what he was doing or threaten the kids to prevent them from telling. I think you're hanging in there fairly well but if you have any reservations about the route you've taken, just remember that when you daughter comes to you at 18 or 20 and asks why you have no contact with the grandparents, you can look her dead in the eye and tell her that you did it to protect her. That's far easier than have her come to you at the same age and asking why you failed to protect her from good old gramps wandering hands, or worse.


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## Tricky Grama (Oct 7, 2006)

byf-

I don't even remember if I've responded to this heart-wrenching thread, but want to say I've prayed for your family & thought a lot about the situation.

I can't remember if your parents even know what the matter is? Do they know about the investigation? I really have read all the posts but may have missed that part. If they don't realize that they have been 'found out' no wonder they keep calling & asking what's wrong, etc. Isn't there some way to tell them that the reason they are out of your lives is the abuse? Are we all assuming they know?

Hang in there, byf, you're doing the right thing.

Patty


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## susieM (Apr 23, 2006)

Many of us are members of the incest club....and we all work hard to keep the children from becoming members.


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## barnyardfun (Mar 26, 2005)

Yes, my parents know about the investigation....they were investigated. My mother knew before the cops got involved and she didn't take my concerns seriously, she just got upset at the idea that they may not get to see the kids. The more and more I think about it the more ANGRY her reaction makes me.

I know writting a letter is probably not the wisest thing and yes it would be thought out and written by my DH and I but I feel it is something that has to be done. I know that I CAN NOT see them face to face because I have gotten a little stronger throughout all of this but not that much! If I see them face to face they will just walk all over me. I do not want DH to be in contact with them because the last time he said my mom got pretty hostile and I don't want anything to happen that might look bad on him. I want to write the letter so that they KNOW that I do not want contact with them any longer and the kids will NOT be seeing them. I also want them to know to shut the water off to our house because we don't need them anymore!(well...we have our well dug but just doesn't have the pump and pressure tank but I can go without water for awhile!)

How else can I let them know all of this?? How could it be used against me legally? I don't understand. :shrug:


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## susieM (Apr 23, 2006)

Don't bother with a letter...it would just help to continue the poop. Turn your back, and the page, and get on with your life. Remember...'living well is the best revenge'.


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## Jan Doling (May 21, 2004)

Perhaps you could have your in-laws deliver the news to the abusers, so that you donât have contact? (only if they are willing, of course.) Iâm thinking they could use the tactic of âprotecting their grandchildren.â If they donât feel comfortable doing the job, perhaps a minister would?

I donât want you to have to deal with the manipulations and mind-games that abusers play. You are like a newborn in this alien land of theirs and no contact at all would be best for you.

So do not relent! Stay strong and save this thread to remind you of the reasons for the choices you have made. If you find yourself weakening, just remember: Your HT family is but a post away and will come riding to your rescue to refresh your memory!


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## js2743 (Dec 4, 2006)

but why if nothing has happened then what, if the kid has said nothing has really happened im lost for words how you could ever live with the idea that you disowned your parents for nothing. i understand that in back your mind you think the ole guy was dirty enough to do it but what if nothing has happened it makes it very hard question to ask yourself. just wondering if you have come right out and ask your daughter if her papa touched her?


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## susieM (Apr 23, 2006)

Keep your distance from them...we'd hate to have to tell you, 'we told you so', sometime in the future.


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## Dente deLion (Nov 27, 2006)

barnyardfun said:


> I want to write the letter so that they KNOW that I do not want contact with them any longer and the kids will NOT be seeing them.


They already know this. You have already made it clear with every time you refuse to take a call. They continue to harass you because they think they can wear you down and regain control of you. Keep resisting. Do not respond. That will set you back to square one. 

They are very much afraid of punishment, and that is why they are working so hard to see the children again - so they can keep them confused by casting you & DH as the bad ones and so they can keep them quiet with threats.

Have you discussed this letter with your husband yet? He has been extremely level-headed through all of this and would likely have a well-reasoned opinion.

As to telling your parents they can shut off your water line ... who cares? They aren't paying for what you aren't using, are they? And since they live so close, they undoubtedly noticed the all-day well digging operation, no?


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## susieM (Apr 23, 2006)

Dente deLion said:


> They already know this. You have already made it clear with every time you refuse to take a call. They continue to harass you because they think they can wear you down and regain control of you. Keep resisting. Do not respond. That will set you back to square one.
> 
> They are very much afraid of punishment, and that is why they are working so hard to see the children again - so they can keep them confused by casting you & DH as the bad ones and so they can keep them quiet with threats.
> 
> ...


What DDL said.


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## barnyardfun (Mar 26, 2005)

I understand what you are saying about they should get the hint that I don't want to talk to them.....I shut off my phone today too, that ought to make them happy.  The thing is I don't think they will ever take the hint that way....they still think DH is keeping me locked in the house and took my phone away. I want the to understand that I am chosing not to have anything to do with them anymore. I don't think that they will ever stop calling....they are amazingly stubborn people. Crazy and stubborn.

I guess I wanted to write them and tell them to shut off the water to kind of shove it in their face and tell them I don't need them anymore. I don't want them to think that just because they think they supply my water that they have that much more control over me. I want them to know that I have stepped out independently and I DON'T NEED THEM ANYMORE!


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## susieM (Apr 23, 2006)

don't do it


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## barnyardfun (Mar 26, 2005)

Dente deLion said:


> And since they live so close, they undoubtedly noticed the all-day well digging operation, no?


They live over 1600ft away over a hill, you can't see my house from theirs. It was during the day so I don't even know if anyone was home.....even if they were they hybernate in front of the TV so they wouldn't have been able to hear it!


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## susieM (Apr 23, 2006)

don't do it. wait. It will be much more effective, dignified, smart, mature, classy, and safe. 

if you must, write the letter but don't mail it. Then wait a while to open it and reread it (a year or two), and be pleasantly surprised at yourself.


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## Dente deLion (Nov 27, 2006)

barnyardfun said:


> I understand what you are saying about they should get the hint that I don't want to talk to them.....I shut off my phone today too, that ought to make them happy.  The thing is I don't think they will ever take the hint that way....they still think DH is keeping me locked in the house and took my phone away. I want the to understand that I am chosing not to have anything to do with them anymore. I don't think that they will ever stop calling....they are amazingly stubborn people. Crazy and stubborn.
> 
> I guess I wanted to write them and tell them to shut off the water to kind of shove it in their face and tell them I don't need them anymore. I don't want them to think that just because they think they supply my water that they have that much more control over me. I want them to know that I have stepped out independently and I DON'T NEED THEM ANYMORE!


Look deep in your heart. Do you really believe they think your husband is controlling you, or do you really believe they've only been telling you that in an effort to drive a wedge between you & DH so that they can have control of you again?

Think about the things they've done. Are they the actions of loving parents or are they the actions of people who are, well, "crazy and stubborn"?

I know you want to shove it in their faces and I heartily applaud you for feeling that way - but use that desire to propel yourself forward ... not backward.


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## AngieM2 (May 10, 2002)

Years later you'll be glad you didn't put ANYTHING in writing....

I know - I didn't talk to my parents for 3 years and it was not over something as bad as the issues discussed in this thread.

It will drive them crazy if YOU can keep from entering into a arguement by voice/letter etc....

Angie


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## frugalwilady (May 24, 2005)

*Barnyard fun*-it isn't the legality of sending them a letter that you need to worry about, it's giving them the contact that they seem to be so insistent in getting. You do not need to let them know anything, they already know. They know you believe your stepdad molested your daughter. *That really is ALL they need to know!*
I know you feel the need to let them know about your new well. I can see you needing to let them know your family can stand on its own 2 feet. *But they will figure that out on their own too.* They sure let you figure out on your own that they shut off the water to your house.

*Please don't send a letter.* What you're feeling is what every person feels, the urge to get back into your comfort zone, even if it's bad. The unknown is so much harder than what we know. *Be strong*, create a new and safe comfort zone for yourself and your darling daughter.


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## Bink (Apr 13, 2003)

barnyardfun said:


> BUT finding this stuff out now feels like hitting a brick wall! Realizing that everything you grew up with could have just been a big game for his satisfaction! :Bawling:


Yes, that's the tough part.  But ultimately it feels better to face the reality than to try to continue believing the lies.


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## Ardie/WI (May 10, 2002)

barnyardfun said:


> I understand what you are saying about they should get the hint that I don't want to talk to them.....I shut off my phone today too, that ought to make them happy.  The thing is I don't think they will ever take the hint that way....they still think DH is keeping me locked in the house and took my phone away. I want the to understand that I am chosing not to have anything to do with them anymore. I don't think that they will ever stop calling....they are amazingly stubborn people. Crazy and stubborn.
> 
> I guess I wanted to write them and tell them to shut off the water to kind of shove it in their face and tell them I don't need them anymore. I don't want them to think that just because they think they supply my water that they have that much more control over me. I want them to know that I have stepped out independently and I DON'T NEED THEM ANYMORE!


Kiddo, wrote that letter! Say everything that you want to say to them. Just give it to them! THEN, after you've gotten it all out of your system, RIP the letter up!

Nothing you write and send to them is going the change a thing! They'll continue to play their sick games.

Just to on withyour life and get rid of all that anger you have.


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## barnyardfun (Mar 26, 2005)

I know you guys are probably right.....I just think it would make me feel so much better to know that they know I don't need them anymore.

Urgh! It is amazing that I still let them get to me when they are not even around!! :grump: I guess I do need to just write it all down just for my benefit....just get it all off my chest.

Thank you all for being here for me. I know I am no where near the end of all the heartache and I pray that I will be able to get thru all of this. I do thank you all for helping to make me a stonger person. Without you all I don't know where I would be....I don't even want to think about it!


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## susieM (Apr 23, 2006)

Writing a letter to them is like when kids say 'nanynanybooboo' to other kids that they're fighting with.

Just turn around and walk away.


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## susieM (Apr 23, 2006)

barnyardfun said:


> I know you guys are probably right.....I just think it would make me feel so much better to know that they know I don't need them anymore.
> 
> Urgh! It is amazing that I still let them get to me when they are not even around!! :grump: I guess I do need to just write it all down just for my benefit....just get it all off my chest.
> 
> Thank you all for being here for me. I know I am no where near the end of all the heartache and I pray that I will be able to get thru all of this. I do thank you all for helping to make me a stonger person. Without you all I don't know where I would be....I don't even want to think about it!


You have a kids and a husband. Enjoy them.


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## Bink (Apr 13, 2003)

barnyardfun said:


> The thing is I don't think they will ever take the hint that way....they still think DH is keeping me locked in the house and took my phone away.


No they don't. That's just the fishing line they use. Don't take the bait.

Write all the letters you like, keep a diary, even. Just don't send 'em. It'll drive them bats.


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## susieM (Apr 23, 2006)

If you communicate with them, the whole poopy thing will never be finished with.


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## Dente deLion (Nov 27, 2006)

barnyardfun said:


> I just think it would make me feel so much better to know that they know I don't need them anymore.


YOU know you don't need them anymore. THAT feeling is the best.


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## ellebeaux (Aug 18, 2004)

Dear BYF,

I applaud you for your courage. It's a huge change in your life. One thing that concerns me is that you haven't addressed your own history of abuse. Please consider calling the local rape crisis center to find a free experienced counselor to talk to about your own experiences. I know it's scary but it will help you so much, as a person, a parent and a wife.

Good luck with your journey!


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## sgl42 (Jan 20, 2004)

I'd suggest you write the letter for yourself, as it will probably be a cathartic release for you. It will probably help you to stop looking back and start looking forward (which you're already doing quite a lot of looking forward, amazingly considering what you've been thru in a very short time)

However, I would *not* send them the letter. It would just give them more info/ammunition to use to try to manipulate you.

If you want to send them a very clear message that you don't need them anymore, I'd suggest getting a restraining order, so that that do not call you, or the kids, do not visit, and have no contact whatsoever. That makes your life easier, gives you recourse with no excuse on their part if they try to contact your kids later, and sends a very clear signal.

glad you're doing such a great job moving forward and getting so much stronger. best wishes...
--sgl


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## Ann-NWIowa (Sep 28, 2002)

I agree with not sending a letter. They are trying their best to get you to re-establish communication with them. A letter would do that. You might consider having an attorney send them a letter saying you want them to cease all attempts to contact you by phone or otherwise, that you do not want them on your property, do not want them to approach you in public, etc. and that if they don't stop you will seek a restraining order. Have the attorney send a copy of the letter to your local law enforcement so if you call that you're being harrassed, they'll have the background. You do not need to explain the "why" to your parents. Unless they are dumb as rocks, they know exactly what the problem is. Their desire for resuming communications is undoubtedly to get you back under their control so you will not prosecute for the abuse you suffered. 

By all means write as many angry letters as you wish but don't send them. I'll bet a counselor would suggest you begin keeping a journal of daily thoughts and feelings so maybe you could use that to express what you're going thru. I'm sure there are plenty of things you don't want to share online that are eating at you about all of this and you probably need a place to vent. Get a journal and vent away!!!!!!

Also remember that your parents want you to feel guilty. DON'T. You're not guilty of anything except being a loving wife and mother and showing good common sense in eliminating toxic family from your life.


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## LvDemWings (Sep 11, 2005)

BYF I have stayed out of this discussion because I didn't have anything to add that hadn't already been said.. until now. I agree with the others who have suggested that putting your feelings down on paper might be very helpful for you. Sit down with a notebook and yell, scream, rant, curse and say everything that is in your heart. It doesn't have to make sense, have punctuation or even sentences. When your done place those papers in a box. Tape that box tightly and tie it up with a string. On the top, with a big marker write For God. Then go outside and dig yourself a big deep hole and bury the box. Give God your fears, frustrations, anger and tears. Its time for you to find some peace but you won't if you keep second guessing yourself. You seem to have become so much stronger these past few weeks but if you keep carrying around those what ifs, guilt, anger and everything else it will not only eat you alive but think of all those precious moments that you are losing. I am not suggesting that you attempt to forget. You will never, and should never forget but if you carry everything around with you its going to get mighty heavy.

I hope I haven't offended you with my opinion. I wish much smiles and laughter for you and your family.


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## gracegarden (Mar 30, 2007)

BYF, it is amazing how much you have grown in the past month!

I realize this is about your daughter, but without a strong momma, she will have a much more difficult time coping with things.
Yes, there are still "did he, didn't he?" moments, but the truth is -- if he/they were innocent would they be carrying on in such a manner? Or would they be hurt, but understanding and mature. Wouldn't they eventually adjust and say something like, "honey, we are hurt and upset, but our DG comes first." "You take the time you need, we will pray the Lord gives you the peace you are searching for." "We love you, you all come first, our feelings are hurt, but we will be patient because we love you."

I haven't seen this happening.
But, boy, have I seen you grow!!

We are proud to be part of your family!
The Lord is looking on you with love and pride!

Your friend and fellow supporter.
(It has been 14 years since I have had any contact with my mother.)
(The tears still come sometimes. I mourn for what could have, no, what _should_ have been.)


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## MarleneS (Aug 21, 2003)

Barnyardfun, there is something I would like to share with you that I hope will be of benefit to you not only this day but many, many days into your future. It was writen by, Joyce Sequichie Hifler:

"A real person exists beneath the surface of who we appear to be. We often hide our real selves to protect them from others who want to tell us how to run our lives. Sometimes we hide our real selves so long that we forget who we really are. Then we fall prey to many difficulties, especially those that come with trying to live our lives according to what others think we should do.

When we live our lives according to how others think we should live them, we cheat outselves of our right and privilege to be ourselves. It may seem obvious (though it is often hard to do) that we need to be our real selves in order to act authentically and to make the decisions that are right for us. Issues that once confused us become clearer when we are aware of our own inner strengths, and when we no longer hide them."

Hugs,
Marlene


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## dashley (Jan 23, 2005)

I wrote a letter myself many years ago. It is good to put on paper how you are feeling. You may even be feeling things you do not realize until you see it on paper, it gives you time to reflect on your real feelings. It that reguard, it does help. I never did send the letter I wrote. You are in one of the most stressful situations I know of.

It is good you have an outlet here I didn't have then.

God Bless you!!


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## barnyardfun (Mar 26, 2005)

AHH! My dad just showed up here! Thank the good Lord up above that I have gotten into the habit of locking the doors as soon as my DH leaves! I didn't hear him pull up and he knocked once and then tried to open the door!! When I heard the knock I looked outside because I knew DH shouldn't be home....I didn't recognize the truck, don't know who's truck he was driving.....so I went to the door to see if I could peak out and see who it was....didn't see anyone....by the time I got back to the other window he was headed out the gate. Thank goodness I had all the doors locked and all the windows covered!! I am shaking so bad, I thought my heart was going to pound out of my chest, and I could barely hold the phone when I called DH to tell him! I didn't realize how scared I was 'till he just showed up! :Bawling: Dh's shop is across the field, I called him so he would be forwarned just in case he shows up there. Obviously he is getting a little braver if he showed up here, this is the first time I know of. He knows that this is nap time and I always have my kids laying down. We are down to one vehicle so I don't have one here, guess that is why he believed quickly that no one was here! Thank goodness it didn't wake the kids up! URGH! I feel so sick! Thank you all for listening....I feel a little better talking about it. I am going to go get something cold to drink (non-alcoholic unfortunatly  ) and try to calm down!


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## Snowdancer (Sep 23, 2002)

You said you have a gate, I'd suggest putting a lock on it! When hubby leaves have him lock the gate, if you leave lock it too. That way your step dad won't be able to get close to the house or God forbid try to lure the kids to open a window or the door. :help: 

You know someone mentioned a protective order, if he tries the doors knowing just how much you and your husband don't want him there; I think it may be in your families best interest to consider it.

I hate to think what he'd have done if he'd have found the door unlocked. :nono: 
What if you were out in the back yard and the kids were in their beds napping? Would he have woke them up or taken them down to your parents place?  You probably think he wouldn't do that but knowing your wishes and still trying the door shows he doesn't respect your wishes. :grump: 

Please be careful. ((((((hugs))))))


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## Wildwood Flower (Aug 26, 2006)

BarnYardFun,
Your stepdad knows exactly what has happened--there's no grey area anymore. Coming to your house at a time when your husband was not home is clearly just a first step at getting you under his little spell again--guilt trips, whining, etc. 

I think you need to set the record straight, get it in writing--through a court order--restraining order. He's going to really start to get MAD now. But stick to your guns. 

You have done nothing wrong. You've merely opened the windows and blinds on some very unacceptable behavior--and he knows it. 

He knows if he gets you alone he can maybe wrangle you out of sticking to this. You do not have to live in fear. This is not only wrong. It's against the law!


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## barnyardfun (Mar 26, 2005)

IT GETS WORSE!! 

He showed up at DH's shop! DH had a confrentation with him. He came up close to DH and DH told him to get on the other side of the truck if he wanted to talk. Stepdad said that he was going to see me and the kids one way or the other and that they are going to take us to court for grandparents rights! :Bawling: 

I called the police and they said I have to come in in person to file a restraining order, they close in a few mintues! There is no way to do it today! We are going in first thing in the morning. 

I talked to the child advocate, I was trying to get ahold of our investigator, she said if he showed up again to not hesitate to call the police. DH picked me up at home and brought me back over here with him. I am locked in the in-laws house. I am SO SCARED! I don't know what to do!

Right now I am waiting for the investigator to call me back....I will tell her everything that is going on. Even though the case is closed she will still note it on the file. 

I think after we file the restraining order we are going to go to a lawyer. I want to be 100 steps ahead of them if they think they are going to get partial custody of my kids!!

Lord help us! If you have been praying for us we would greatly appreciate it if you could continue! Looks like things are only going to get worse!


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## Wildwood Flower (Aug 26, 2006)

Praying right now! For you and your children. Do not be afraid. Good will prevail.


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## jen74145 (Oct 31, 2006)

Fret not, google is your friend!

http://www.arlegalservices.org/Data...088458408.39/doc_FSGrandparent_visitation.pdf

An excerpt for you.... notice stipulation three!

When Does The Law Apply?
&#56256;&#56457; When the marriage between the parents of the child has ended by death, divorce or legal separation.
&#56256;&#56457; When custody or guardianship of a child has been granted to a person other than a parent by a court.
&#56256;&#56457; The law does not apply when the parents are married to each other and refuse grandparent visitation.

 Relax, sounds like he hasn't a leg to stand on.


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## Ardie/WI (May 10, 2002)

barnyardfun said:


> IT GETS WORSE!!
> 
> He showed up at DH's shop! DH had a confrentation with him. He came up close to DH and DH told him to get on the other side of the truck if he wanted to talk. Stepdad said that he was going to see me and the kids one way or the other and that they are going to take us to court for grandparents rights! :Bawling:
> 
> ...


Don't be scared. They won't get any custody of your children! Theyr'e mad because they no longer have you under their control Just keep calm and know that God is on your side. In fact, He holds you right in the palm of His hand.


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## Bink (Apr 13, 2003)

barnyardfun said:


> IT GETS WORSE!!
> 
> He showed up at DH's shop! DH had a confrentation with him. He came up close to DH and DH told him to get on the other side of the truck if he wanted to talk. Stepdad said that he was going to see me and the kids one way or the other and that they are going to take us to court for grandparents rights! :Bawling:


You remember that policeman told you you had until January to press charges against him for what he did to you when you were a child? I think it's time to do that. 

But yes, legal advice is a good thing, and I'm glad you have the child advocate to talk to.

He's a sneaky weasel to show up in a truck you didn't recognize. Might as well start playing hardball.


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## Bink (Apr 13, 2003)

And really-! The nerve of him to demand "grandparents rights" to molest children who aren't even any blood kin to him! :flame: Mercy me!

Hit back honey. Hard. He's going to find out all about playing rough.


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## Dente deLion (Nov 27, 2006)

Right on, Bink. BYF, time to take a lot of deep slow breaths. You are handling this well and with amazing strength. I know you will have all the strength you need to make the next steps. And it's okay to get MAD!


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## A'sta at Hofstead (Sep 20, 2006)

Oh man, go get that protective order, and file charges on what he did to you.
Someone said you should get some counseling at a rape crisis center, I agree wholeheartedly. 
You have to take care of yourself and heal, and it will help you deal with your daughter's feelings should she start recollecting things.


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## MullersLaneFarm (Jul 23, 2004)

Praying for strength and courage and Peace for your family.

Relax, your step-father & mother have no legal leg to stand on for visitations.

The Lord is with you, Always!


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## papaw (Jan 21, 2005)

jen74145 said:


> Fret not, google is your friend!
> 
> http://www.arlegalservices.org/Data...088458408.39/doc_FSGrandparent_visitation.pdf
> 
> ...


This is good news!! Also he being a step grandparent, no rights at all in any case I would think.
Sorry! This is dashley, papaw was loged in and I didn't know it!


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## Bink (Apr 13, 2003)

papaw said:


> Sorry! This is dashley, papaw was loged in and I didn't know it!


I was going to _say_..."Dashley, you've really changed your look!"


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## dashley (Jan 23, 2005)

Bink said:


> I was going to _say_..."Dashley, you've really changed your look!"


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## susieM (Apr 23, 2006)

Bink said:


> You remember that policeman told you you had until January to press charges against him for what he did to you when you were a child? I think it's time to do that.
> 
> But yes, legal advice is a good thing, and I'm glad you have the child advocate to talk to.
> 
> He's a sneaky weasel to show up in a truck you didn't recognize. Might as well start playing hardball.


What Bink said.


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## susieM (Apr 23, 2006)

What EVERYBODY said!

And get an airhorn or something, to blow when he shows up, to alert your husband.


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## dashley (Jan 23, 2005)

susieM said:


> What EVERYBODY said!
> 
> And get an airhorn or something, to blow when he shows up, to alert your husband.



Great Idea, show him what your made of! You have a lot of spunk and a really good husband!!


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## Bink (Apr 13, 2003)

susieM said:


> And get an airhorn or something, to blow when he shows up, to alert your husband.


...and to make Daddio poop his pants.


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## dashley (Jan 23, 2005)

Bink said:


> ...and to make Daddio poop his pants.


that would send him running, looking like he had a cob up his bu** :hobbyhors


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## frazzlehead (Aug 23, 2005)

BYF, you hang in there. I know it's really scary, but you're doing all the right things. Talk to the authorities - you don't have to allow him anywhere near you or your kids.

And about filing charges for what happened to *you* ... I really, really think you oughta ponder that one. Talk to someone (rape center? the lady at social services? the officer who suggested it? anyone!) about what is involved, what you need to do, and what will happen.

Then, just do it. It only adds strength to your position - and that helps protect your kids from someone you DO NOT need in your life.

Hold on. You're ok, you're safe, your kids are safe, you're doing the right things. The fact that your stepdad is so angry confirms it!

<hugs>


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## Idahoe (Feb 4, 2006)

I know it's scary, but his behavior is called "upping the ante". They'll do this when you begin to set limits on the behavior, just to see if you really mean it. 

If he were in his right mind, and a decent human being, he would attempt to approach you with love and understanding. Period!! He's not, so there's your sign.

He's bullied you for years, but he can't hurt you now. He can yell and threaten and harass, but an R.O. is not just a piece of paper. The moment he calls or shows up you call 911 and the officers will respond. It works, I've had to do that lately myself!


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## Vanne (May 10, 2007)

I've been reading this thread. You're a courageous person!

Here is something comforting. There was a study done. They took documented cases of child sexual abuse that resulted in hospitalization of the child. 10 and 15 years later, only 10 or 20% of the kids remembered it.

The mind has amazing healing power. The children who are denied treatment and those whose parents don't believe them are the ones that suffer. 

You're doing a great job. Don't back down!


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## barnyardfun (Mar 26, 2005)

We are going to go in to the Prosecuting attorney (where the police department told us to go) this morning to file the restraining order. I am going to get one against him and my mom.....I don't want ANY loopholes. I think after that we are going to find a lawyer so we have everything set just in case they do think they can take us to court for visitation rights. From what I read in Arkansas law they don't stand a chance..........but better safe then sorry.

DH and I sat down and talked to the kids yesterday. Told them that there was some bad adults stuff going on, and that is was nothing they did, it was just between mommy,daddy, memaw and papa. Told them that if they EVER see them, even if their playing outside, in town, etc they are to NOT speak to them and to come and get mommy or daddy ASAP. Amazingly they didn't ask any questions and they were fine with it. They haven't asked about them at all since DH and I told them some bad stuff was going on and we wouldn't see them for a LONG time (never at this point would be fine with me!).

Been sitting here at the computer for awhile. Woke up at 4:30 scared to death.....checked doors and kids, still couldn't sleep because of all the noises. It has been a rough night. Every time my heart goes to pounding because I hear something I get mad all over again that I don't even feel safe in my own home! This is no way to have to live, especially not because of ones own parents! :grump:


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## Bink (Apr 13, 2003)

barnyardfun said:


> Been sitting here at the computer for awhile. Woke up at 4:30 scared to death.....checked doors and kids, still couldn't sleep because of all the noises. It has been a rough night. Every time my heart goes to pounding because I hear something I get mad all over again that I don't even feel safe in my own home! This is no way to have to live, especially not because of ones own parents! :grump:


I know it's a pain in the behind to go through, and it will be awhile before things settle down, but thank you for doing it. Thank you for protecting your kids.


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## ginnie5 (Jul 15, 2003)

I don't have the issues with my mother that you have with your parents but there are enough that we have no contact with her. I have call blocking on my phone and her numbers are the ones blocked. She can't call me unless she goes to someone else's house. She did that the other day and of course within seconds her true colors came flying out. I know how hard it is and how bad you feel about cutting off contact with your parents but sometimes it really is the best thing. It does get easier over time. You start to realize that you are strong enough and you have a real reason to do it. We've been this way for almost 5 years and yes it still hurts sometimes. When I do have to be in contact with her though it makes me realize that I am doing the right thing. My grandmother is the only reason we have even limited contact........when my grandmother passes there won't be any. I expect her to spiral even further down at that point. My grandmother's mind is basically gone and she thinks my mother is her mother....so it feeds my mother's ego to be in control of every little aspect of someone's life.


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## Gailann Schrader (May 10, 2002)

I bought (at a sale) a driveway sensor that detects when someone drives in. Breaks the plane of the sensor. You can also get one to put at your door. It sets off a "ding-dong" chime that lets you know something is there...

I spent $12.50 on it at the sale, don't know how much they are. It runs off a sensor that is OUTSIDE with a 9v battery and the receiver INSIDE with three AA batteries. Lets me know when someone is at the door. 

Additionally? I hang a different bell in each of my internal doorways. At 5' tall, everyone else is mostly taller than me. My outer doors have several bells on them. (When I had my chimney fire? The firefighter's helmets kept banging into them - besides, they were all really tall) Early warning is good warning. 

I know you have children and a husband? But my son learned immediately to walk so his head doesn't hit the bell/windchime. I would be able to tell which doorway someone was in by the sound. Sounds uber vigilant? But it helps me be more at ease. At night? The sound of a bell would let me know something was up.

*hugs*


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## StoneFence (Feb 4, 2005)

BYF, I've been following along and I have to say that you have really grown since you started this thread. You're doing wonderfully helping your kids. You need some help though. Please ask for help at a Rape Crisis center. Counselors there will understand what you are going through and help you work out and gain strength from what happened to you. 

I say, get the alarms for the doors and driveway if you can swing it. They can be found at a hardware store. Keep the dog with you. What everyone else has said about your step-father's behavior is spot on. He's behaving in a textbook way.


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## MarleneS (Aug 21, 2003)

Sorry for your continuing ordeal BarnyardFun, your stepfather continues to show classic signs of being an abuser and not a loving caring parent. I hope this helps to let you know YOU are doing the right thing concerning the welfare of your children. 

The brightside is from your own knowledge and experience you children shall have a strong example on which to base their own lives, you and your husband are showing us what great parents you continue to be 

Hugs,
Marlene


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## barnyardfun (Mar 26, 2005)

Well.....we got back a little bit ago from the attorney. Basically they said there was a 50/50 chance on wether or not we would be able to get a restraining order. Due to the investigation not coming up with anything and the lack of police reports. We could still file if we wanted to and it would be up to a judge if he thought if was needed. And then if he did do a temporary order we would then have to go to court for a permant restraint order......that is the part that kind of scared me away, that means I would have to be in the same room with him...and listen to why he thinks I am crazy and he is a great person. I just couldn't find the strength to do it this morning. I have been crying all morning, I am scared to death and feel like there is no where to go. The kids are starting to get worried, I need to straighten it up and be strong for them. 

From this point what we are going to do it if he does show his face around us again we will immediatly call the police, that way we have established police records of his harrassment. I have now had all of our #'s changed except for DH's, he runs a business with that phone...we can't afford to change it we would lose customers! And we are putting a locked gate on our driveway, it is 1/4 mile from the house down a hill so you can't even see the house from there......they would have to walk to get there. My dog wouldn't bark at a flea so he doesn't do a lot of good. I would really like to put up a 8' privacy fence around our yard so I feel safe with the kids playing outside....but that is $3000 or more we don't have right now. 

Yesterday when DH talked to my stepdad DH made sure to tell them that we didn't need their water anymore because we drilled our own well. DH said his demenor changed quite a bit then. Anyway.....guess he went directly home and shut off the water. We don't have a pump, pressure talk, electric wire, or pipe yet....we were still trying to save the money. Long story short we are out of water again!  Doesn't really matter right now because DH is having me stay with him over here (shop/inlaw's house) because he wants to make sure that the kids and I are okay.

OH! I forgot to tell you that when DH had a confrontation with him yesterday stepdad asked why we were doing this and that we couldn't possibly think that he would touch her inappropriatly. DH said " Way I see it there is only two men that she was around....me and you. I know I didn't do it " Stepdad got mad and said that he would not and has never touched a woman inappropriatly and if anyone says any differently then their a liar. DH said that from what wife says and what your wife says that is not true. SD then backtracked and said well let me tell you what happened, I just woke up with my hand laying on her croch and when I realized that I was scared to death and told her mom first thing the next morning. (THAT IS NOT HOW IT HAPPENED! :nono: ) DH said so now your a liar. And on and on it went.......

Maybe my life at some point will get back to normal! Not that I really know what normal is anymore.

My mind is so full of junk right now that I really don't know which end is up!


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## Gailann Schrader (May 10, 2002)

Oh, sweetheart.





oh. sweetheart. *shaking head sorrowfully*

There was a thought in my mind that maybe you had misread the situation.

No. You didn't misread it at all, did you?


Please see if you can get some counseling for yourself as well. You may be crying for the small child you were that couldn't get out of the situatioon. I'm so very sorry. You did the right thing. You are an ADULT now and don't have to allow it anymore. Good luck.


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## AngieM2 (May 10, 2002)

"SD then backtracked and said well let me tell you what happened, I just woke up with my hand laying on her croch and when I realized that I was scared to death and told her mom first thing the next morning. (THAT IS NOT HOW IT HAPPENED! ) DH said so now your a liar. And on and on it "

Now he's admitted to inappropriate touching.... you do need to do something, and now you have a witness. YOU didn't imagin it.

Good luck, I can see your backbone getting stronger with each posting.
Angie


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## coryy (Nov 6, 2005)

he can't get your kids. it's an empty threat. Good for you getting the restraining order! You are being very very strong in a hard situation.

re: the letter. I wrote it, i mailed it. mailing it was a bad thing. writing it worked out a lot of things for me but mailing it was just playing into their whole screwed up game. 

I don't have a lot of time now but I come in here everyday to see how you are doing and send you strength.


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## Dente deLion (Nov 27, 2006)

Make sure DH writes down every detail of that conversation. Not just the words, but time of day, location, who was standing where, etc. Try to get the words down as accurately as possible.

From what you've said above I think you're making the right decision to hold off on the restraining order for now, until you've built up more evidence. Your plans for calling police and enhancing security are good ones, I think.


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## Bink (Apr 13, 2003)

barnyardfun said:


> Well.....we got back a little bit ago from the attorney. Basically they said there was a 50/50 chance on wether or not we would be able to get a restraining order. Due to the investigation not coming up with anything and the lack of police reports.


Lack of police reports? Press charges against what he did to you as a child. You have a marvelous weapon against him right there.


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## Bink (Apr 13, 2003)

Dente deLion said:


> Make sure DH writes down every detail of that conversation. Not just the words, but time of day, location, who was standing where, etc. Try to get the words down as accurately as possible.


Ditto this. Yes. Absolutely.


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## FiddleKat (Oct 22, 2004)

When I started to read your post barnyardfun, my first thought was OMG she's been molested!!

I think the fact that he tried something with you when you were ten, and the other comments would make me think also, that he is the culprit. That kind of behavior is not normal!!!

Thoughts and prayers to you, and to your DD.


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## dashley (Jan 23, 2005)

Dente deLion said:


> Make sure DH writes down every detail of that conversation. Not just the words, but time of day, location, who was standing where, etc. Try to get the words down as accurately as possible.


Yes, this is a good idea!! It is easy to forget important detail if you don't.

You hang in there lady, you are doing a great job!!


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## sgl42 (Jan 20, 2004)

Sorry you're in such a nerve-racking situation. I think you've been incredibly strong, so far, and I think you can keep it up.

First, lean on your husband, as you already have, and get strength from him. He doesn't have the same emotional reaction as you, since he didn't grow up in that abusive household. As you've already seen from the garage confrontation, your husband can stand up to them with less stress than you, so use that as best you can.

Second, use their actions to dispell any lingering doubts you had; they are not loving people, you did nothing wrong, the problem lies with them.

Third, use the legal system any way you can. Even if it is only temporary now, it will make it that much easier to make it permanent in the future. Restraining orders are pretty non-subtle signals that one's presence isn't wanted, so there will be less wiggle room for your step-parent's excuses, until he has none left. 

Lastly, I believe that if you can get by this test of your resolve, it will get easier. As you probably know from having kids, if they ask 20 times for something and they finally get what they want, then the next time they'll be willing to ask 100 times, expecting you'll eventually give in. But if you remain firm, then next time, the'll give up a lot faster, as they have no expectation that they'll be successful. So, if you and your husband are strong this time, it will be even easier to deal with any possible incident in the future.

Best wishes for you and your families continued strength...

--sgl


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## Wildwood Flower (Aug 26, 2006)

The log book is a great idea. Log books are admissable in court. Judges like nothing better than dates and times, and "just the facts". 

They hate the old "he said" ..."she said". 

Your husband is AWESOME!!! Stand behind him. He is your protector now and he's not putting up with it. Your stepDad is on the run and he put his big foot in his mouth. 

WRITE IT DOWN--exactly what he said.

You don't need a big fence. Just stand your ground. People like him are wimps and sissies. They cannot stand up to a real woman or man--that's why they go for little kids. 

Stand in the light.


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## MullersLaneFarm (Jul 23, 2004)

> And then if he did do a temporary order we would then have to go to court for a permant restraint order......that is the part that kind of scared me away, that means I would have to be in the same room with him...and listen to why he thinks I am crazy and he is a great person.


BYF, 
It is scary, especially if you have never gone to court before. Believe in yourself and believe in your husband. 

Tell the judge what they have done - the phone calls, cutting off your water supply, the threats, sneaking over. Tell the judge you are scared, that you have trouble sleeping, et al. Did you save any of the phone recordings? Bring them to the court and let the judge hear them. 



> I just couldn't find the strength to do it this morning. I have been crying all morning,
> I am scared to death and feel like there is no where to go.


The judge needs to see you this way. She/he needs to know how these people have affected your daily life.

They will be notified when the permanent hearing is. If they don't show up, then you'll get your order. If they do show up, let your step-father rant in court. Let him speak freely, don't interrupt, don't make comments when he says untruths. Most likely he'll feel so confident and self-righteous that he'll did his own hole. 

And DEFINITELY get a log book. Write down all you can remember up to this point and then document things as soon after they happened. Don't forget to write how it made you feel. These are admissible and judges appreciate them.


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## Bink (Apr 13, 2003)

MullersLaneFarm said:


> The judge needs to see you this way. She/he needs to know how these people have affected your daily life.


Yes. I hadn't thought of it this way, but it's so. Just saying "I'm frightened of them" doesn't have the same effect as _being _frightened of them. You think of your being nervous and trembling as a bad thing, but it can work to your advantage.


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## Tricky Grama (Oct 7, 2006)

Yes, Byf, stay strong. We're all pulling for you & your family is in our thoughts & prayers. 

BTW, have you seen last Mon. Dr Phill? (I tape it so just watched it last eve.) It's about a g'pa who molested his 6 y/o g'daughter. Soooo hard to watch but I thought of your family all the way thru. Part 2 is next Mon episode. The g'parents can't understand why they can't have contact w/g'daughter!!!! Amazing!!

Hang it there!!

Patty


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## Shepherd (Jan 23, 2005)

BYF my heart just aches for you for having to go through all this. I can't imagine how horrible this is having to feel like you're living in a prison, afraid to go outside or let the kids out to play without the fear that your parents might show up at any moment; electrical jolts to the heart and central nervous system whenever the doorbell rings or someone knocks or calls. 

It's easy to start doubting yourself, wondering if you imagined something, misinterpreted it, etc., but when you have all your facts documented in a log, all you have to remember is to go back to the log and read what you've documented. The facts will always set your mind clear again on why you're going thru this. The facts are you know what happened to you growing up in their home. You know your daughter had some marks in her private area that shouldn't be there. You know it could only be from 1 of 3 men - the only ones she'd been around and you logically ruled 2 of them out. You know your stepfather had a habit of him sleeping with your daughter and your mom sleeping with your son; that's about as strange as it can get and would have my antennaes raised to the sky! And so forth. 

Just keep that log up daily and accurately. And when you start wondering if you're overreacting, pick it up and start reading from the beginning again. When you go to the police station, the attorney's office, the child advocate's office, the court... wherever... keep that log with you. That carries your facts. In this type of situation, the judges are used to someone in your situation being a nervous wreck but would listen to your facts and respect you for having documented so much. Those facts make all the difference to the court.


You've placed yourselves in a position where unfortunately you live in close proximity with your parents' home and that is not something you can easily change. You are going to have to decide how you can continue to live there and still feel comfortable. Some of the things you could do are cost prohibitive (like building a huge fence with locks on the gates). Some things are ridiculous - like why would you want to put up huge fencing and then you can't enjoy the beautiful view of nature, etc. So you need to think of what else you could do. 

In your heart, you know what your stepdad did when you were a child, and you know what he's continued to do after you became an adult. You now know his behavior is warped. And you know your mother stood by and did nothing to stop it. For you to leave your children in their care now that you KNOW these things are extremely inappropriate, would be negligent and you cannot allow that to continue. That would risk their safety and mental well being. And that is what has brought you to this point.

Turn your fear into anger at this point until you guys decide exactly which steps to take. You need to get to the point where instead of being fearful locked inside the house 24/7, you'll feel free to continue your life as you'd like and IF/when you're confronted by your parents, you'll be able to handle the situation the best you can at the time. That means having a plan laid out where you tell the kids "If you see Grandpa or Grandma driving in or walking up, run into the house and call Daddy [or the inlaws - or even 911 depending on the situation]". If you can find a large bell that your husband or inlaws could hear, run to the house and start ringing it. If you get caught off guard and they show up before you can react, be prepared to stand up to them and tell them yourself that they are not welcome there and they know why. I realize this is going to take awhile for you to become that strong, but like I said, you need to turn this fear into anger for what they've done to you AND to your children. 

And I do believe the day will come when you WILL be caught off guard with them on your doorstep or walking up to you in the yard, at a store, in a courtroom, etc. You just have to prepare yourself (do some role-playing in your mind for the different scenarios) for how you should deal with the situation at the time. 

The bottom line is the safety of your children. It is your duty (and your husband's) to protect them at all costs. Maybe you could remind yourself - "He did those things to me, but I WILL not tolerate my children being sexually molested!". Whenever you start thinking about your mom's health and how you miss her - remind yourself that she tolerated all this since you were a child! When you start missing the fatherly relationship you felt with your stepdad, remind yourself the sick things he did to you as a child and is NOW doing with your children. THAT should get you angry enough to stand up to them.

From your last post, it sounds as if you decided to continue to use their water until your well is functioning. That's good. But it sounds as if your stepdad has shut the water off again and you're without water. It's time to get your own well pumping; this needs to be a high priority. It was a low down, underhanded thing for your parents to shut off your water originally, but you need to remind yourself that they did that to you and your family, your kids. That's about as low as it gets (other than the molesting). So when you start to doubt yourself, just keep reminding yourself of these facts. When you feel "fear", turn it into "anger", when you feel "I miss them" turn it into "protect my children from their molestation", when you feel "doubt" remind yourself "they shut off our water"! 

You are stronger than you realize. Your motherly instincts take over and even if you have to stand against your husband, your parents - the whole WORLD -- those children are your responsibility; you are their protector. 

Find another church where you feel comfortable and start building good friendships so you have others to lean on in the future when you need a friend. Meanwhile, know that our hearts and prayers are with you.


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## Dente deLion (Nov 27, 2006)

Barnyard Fun, any update?


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## barnyardfun (Mar 26, 2005)

Not a whole lot going on right now. 

Sunday we got our well hooked up so we have water again! :dance: DH cracks me up everytime he uses the water he says "this is MY water! ALL MINE!" And I mean everytime! I heard him in the bathroom in the middle of the night when he had gotten up to go pee! He was in there carrying on about HIS water!  DH's dad payed for the pump and everything....we just have to get him payed back now.  

Still have been pretty scared. I don't go anywhere without DH and when I am home the house is in lockdown. The kids really wanted to play outside this morning so I let them out with their two way radio and called DH to make sure he was okay with it. He said it was fine because he seen stepdad driving into town. DH called back an hour later to report that he just past stepdad again coming home and he had a county cop following him. DH followed them to see where they were going....stepdad headed home and county went somewhere else. DH is looking out for us pretty well.

Mom and Stepdad put their house up for sale the other day. It is just for sale by owner.....DH and I feel like it is just another one of their bulling tactics, they just want to make us feel bad that they are selling. Even the inlaws said that to DH and we hadn't said anything to them!

My brother (step brother, he is my stepdads son) is getting married at the end of this month. He told me on Sunday and wanted to see if we were going. I feel like the worst sister in the whole wide world! I told him that I just really didn't see how it would be possible with everything going on. He wouldn't even look at me after that! I don't know what to do! :shrug: 

Well.....got to feed the kids lunch right now. Will try to write more later!


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## Dente deLion (Nov 27, 2006)

barnyardfun said:


> Mom and Stepdad put their house up for sale the other day. It is just for sale by owner.....DH and I feel like it is just another one of their bulling tactics, they just want to make us feel bad that they are selling. Even the inlaws said that to DH and we hadn't said anything to them!


Are you _kidding_ me?! They think you'll feel _bad_?! I'd be dancing on the rooftops! 

I understand why you'd be cautious about believing they're really trying to sell, but ... WOW, that would be so fantastic if they moved.

Many congrats on the water, hooray!

Thanks for filling us in.


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## dashley (Jan 23, 2005)

I know you feel bad about the wedding, you must realize though that your sb's loyalty will be with his dad. 

I have no doubt you will do what is right for you and your family!


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## A'sta at Hofstead (Sep 20, 2006)

Congrats on the water! MINE MINE MINE! I love it! 
Your husband must feel so good about that!
Sounds like you are doing well.... maybe you can see if any of these nice HTers would be interested in buying your "neighbors" place.


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## barnyardfun (Mar 26, 2005)

A'sta at Hofstead said:


> Congrats on the water! MINE MINE MINE! I love it!
> Your husband must feel so good about that!
> Sounds like you are doing well.... maybe you can see if any of these nice HTers would be interested in buying your "neighbors" place.


Ya know that wouldn't be a bad idea! It is a 4 bedroom 3 bath remodeled manufactured home on 12.55 acres. BUT I don't know how much they want for it and I am not going to call to find out!  Although they are taking appts by phone only (according to the sign) so I guess I could give out the number to someone if they were interested!

I am VERY happy at the possibility of them moving....I just don't see it happening, to good to be true I guess. I just think it is part of their sick little game. Main reason I think that is because we live in the country on a dirt road, not many people but the people that live here drive thru here. There is only a sign by their driveway....not at the end of the road etc. And I dought they have listed it in any papers. Maybe I should put in an ad in the paper for them!


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## Hears The Water (Aug 2, 2002)

LOL, I was thinking something along the same lines... wouldn't they just freak if they started getting calls from real estate people and people looking to buy their house! It sure would call them on their bluff! But then again I am very ornery.

I can empathize with your husband's announcement of his victory. When John got a job at home depot, after having quit working for my mom and dad, he wrote up on the window in marker.... God 5, Satan 0... making a score card to remind himself that God had taken care of us.
God bless you and yours
Deb


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## barnyardfun (Mar 26, 2005)

As far as my brother and the wedding thing goes.....My brother and I have always been close, we get along pretty well. When this all started I didn't call him and tell him anything because since it was about his dad I didn't want to put him in a rock and a hard place. Once he called and found out what was going on I kept him updated a bit from time to time about things (he totally loves my kids and was VERY upset about DD being hurt). Until his attitude really started to change and he started giving me lectures about I really needed to make sure I knew what I was doing because hurting someones feelings over something I didn't know really happened was not a good thing. He kept going on about they (my parents) love us so much and the idea of someone hurting DD was bad enough but with me doing this on top of that it was just going to tear them apart. That was at the point that I quit calling him. Then he started to call DH just to check on me because my parents were wanting to know how I was. I still see him on Sundays because he is going to my inlaws church where we have been going since all of this started ( it is the only place I feel safe because Dad-in-law is a door greeter so he sees everyone and Mom-in-law works in the children's church with my kids, kind of like built in security!) So brother and I will exchange pleasentries on Sundays. That is how I found out about him getting married at the end of this month. I don't really know what he expects me to do but he really didn't seem happy when I told him I really wasn't sure it would work out. DH says absolutly NOT so I will go with his judgement and not go. I hate it but I just wouldn't feel safe with going and I really wouldn't want to make a spectecule out of myself at his wedding!


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## Ardie/WI (May 10, 2002)

Your mental health and your children's safety are more important than a wedding.

If your brother doesn't understand that, so be it.


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## Bink (Apr 13, 2003)

barnyardfun said:


> and I really wouldn't want to make a spectecule out of myself at his wedding!


Absolutely.
Weddings are the Bride's special day. What with the family tensions, you'd risk inadvertently bringing in a lot of drama when the spotlight should be on the bride, and she would not appreciate that. Actually, it would be your parents creating all the drama, but you don't have to tell Bro that.

As far as you "hurting peoples feelings over something you're not sure happened", hey you KNOW what stepdad did to you. You're sure about that. Sounds like your brother has had to listen to earful after earful of garbage from them.

I wish them luck on selling their house! I think it would be very daughterly of you to run the ad in the paper for them.


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## Topaz Farm (Jan 27, 2005)

I hope you changed your mind about that letter. Also, I wouldn't want them any closer to my kids than....... well 1600' as the crow flies.

You might want to check into getting a Criminal No Trespass served against both of them. See your County Attorney. I don't know about there, but here if one is served a CNT, and you go onto the property you can be arrested and jailed. If you get one have it include your property, your in-laws and the shop. If either one shows up, immediatly call the police/sheriff and have them arrested. :angel:


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## Shepherd (Jan 23, 2005)

barnyardfun said:


> Sunday we got our well hooked up so we have water again! DH cracks me up everytime he uses the water he says "this is MY water! ALL MINE!" And I mean everytime! I heard him in the bathroom in the middle of the night when he had gotten up to go pee! He was in there carrying on about HIS water!  DH's dad payed for the pump and everything....we just have to get him payed back now.


How wonderful you have your own water now!!!!! Congratulations. Your DH cracks me up. God bless your inlaws for loaning you the money to get the well going! 

And I'm thrilled to hear your folks have a for sale sign up. Let's hope someone comes alone and decides to make them an offer they can't refuse! Woo HOOO. LOL


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## Tracy Rimmer (May 9, 2002)

Bink said:


> Absolutely.
> Weddings are the Bride's special day. What with the family tensions, you'd risk inadvertently bringing in a lot of drama when the spotlight should be on the bride, and she would not appreciate that. Actually, it would be your parents creating all the drama, but you don't have to tell Bro that.



Exactly. Perhaps a loving letter congratulating the happy couple and explaining that you understand that the family tension would be present due to the situation with your father in law, and you wanted the bride to have her special day, and didn't want to risk ruining her memories of her wedding day by possibly introducing tension to the mix. Send a gift, tell them you love them, and let it go.

Your brother will either come around (he's hurt now) or not (he doesn't believe that his father is capable of what you're saying he's done) -- but if the BRIDE knows why you can't come, then she'll be careful with her own daughters around your father in law someday.


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## dashley (Jan 23, 2005)

Tracy Rimmer said:


> Exactly. Perhaps a loving letter congratulating the happy couple and explaining that you understand that the family tension would be present due to the situation with your father in law, and you wanted the bride to have her special day, and didn't want to risk ruining her memories of her wedding day by possibly introducing tension to the mix. Send a gift, tell them you love them, and let it go.
> 
> Your brother will either come around (he's hurt now) or not (he doesn't believe that his father is capable of what you're saying he's done) -- but if the BRIDE knows why you can't come, then she'll be careful with her own daughters around your father in law someday.


ABSOLUTELY!!! Great Idea!!

(step father)


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## barnyardfun (Mar 26, 2005)

Thank you for the great ideas about the wedding! I will work on doing something like that! Thanks again!

Today has already started out interesting. It is funny how I always have this gut feeling when a day is going to be bad! This morning I didn't rouse until 8:00 because I took some sleep medicine (I have been having to take something to get to sleep and stay asleep because I have been having nightmares, I don't know of any sleep meds so I have just took Nyquil, I know it is probably not healthy since I am not sick but I will do anything not to have those nightmares again!) ANYWAY, so I woke up at 8 and DD and I were in the living room watching a cartoon, DS was still asleep (in MY bed  ) I asked DD to go make sure the front door was locked, not even two minutes later I hear a vehicle pull up. Looked outside and sure enough it was my Mom coming thru the gate! She came to the front door and knocked, then banged....I thought she would knock the glass out of it! She couldn't see in because ALL the windows in the house are covered, even the doors! When she finally quit beating on the front door I thought she was gone. This whole time the kids and I are huddled in my bed and I am trying to get ahold of DH who won't answer the phone!! THEN she knocks on the back door! And she starts banging on it and saying "Shawnna I want to talk to you!" I could see her shadow and she was trying to see in thru the material of the door. She stayed for over 5 minutes trying to get in. Finally got ahold of DH and he immediatly came over, he showed up just as she was getting back in her truck, she wouldn't even look at him. She just drove away, quickly. DH came in and had to peice me back together. I was shaking so bad I could barely stand up! DH was a little upset that I didn't call the cops immediatly but was more concerned about getting me calmed down. DD asked why they won't just leave us alone. :shrug: DS was kind of grouchy because all the banging woke him up!  

I don't know how much more of this my poor stretched out nerves can handle! I am still scared to death to let the kids go outside, my house is on constant lock down, and I am back at the in-laws today because I couldn't bare the thought of being home alone today! THIS IS NOT FAIR THAT I HAVE TO LIVE MY LIFE THIS WAY! :grump: 

I just really really really want it to all go away! :Bawling:


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## A'sta at Hofstead (Sep 20, 2006)

I think I might have broken down and talked with my mom.
I would have asked her why she wouldn't believe me and asked her just whose side she was on. He admitted to touching you by "mistake" he obviously touched you, and a mother's (your) instinct are 9.999 % reliable when it come to her kids. She is in denial.
Good on you for being so strong.


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## Faustus (Jan 11, 2007)

Hey- I've been reading this thread right along, and I just wanted to say how sorry I am that you're going through all of this. I'll be praying for you. You're really doing a yeoman's job of holding up and sticking to your guns, though, and when your kids are old enough to realize what you did here, they're going to thank you. Just keep doing what you're doing- don't contact them, don't write them a letter (well, not one you're going to actually send to them), just have nothing to do with them. With any luck at all, they're serious about selling their place, and it'll be easier for you to keep them away. I agree with everyone who said that your dad was upping the ante by coming over himself- I think he's shown beyond a doubt that he's exactly what you suspected he was, and it may not be a bad idea to press those charges against him for what you did, especially if you'll then be able to get a restraining order.

Anyway, hang in there- it sounds like your husband's being a real hero in all of this; just keep leaning on him and your in-laws for support. Regardless of what your parents are trying to tell you, you're doing exactly the right thing.


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## Wildwood Flower (Aug 26, 2006)

Good Morning BYF,
You did good. And it WILL go away. Feed a cold, starve a fever. This is definitely of the "fever" variety. 

Just remember "Your home is YOUR castle." Your husband is the KING, and you are the QUEEN. You guard the gate. You don't have to allow anyone or anything inside of your yard that doesn't set right with you. Period.

It's a free country, and maybe you can't change anybody, but you can darned sure **** them out of your private property. Thank heaven you have a good and wise husband. 

Did you write all of this down in your little journal--date, time, what happened? 

I think I'd also put up a NO TRESPASSING sign. And maybe even a DO NOT ENTER at the gate. 

Hang in there girl. "Courage is being scared to death, but saddling up anyway." John Wayne


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## Topaz Farm (Jan 27, 2005)

I forgot something on my last post. You can get a driveway alarm, that way you would at least know someone was in the driveway. Don't forget about checking into that Criminal No Trespass.


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## Christine in OK (May 10, 2002)

You're doing good. 

Maybe you need to make up a couple of more of those "for sale" signs and put them in more conspicuous places - just to help them out, you know!

Is your driveway where you could just string a couple of strands of barbed wire across it with a "no trespassing" sign? Maybe it would slow them down a little at the least.


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## dashley (Jan 23, 2005)

They are not going to leave you alone............... you need a plan in place for what you will do if and when they come calling. You have to expect them the next time, have the plan ready in your head and just do it. Calling the police should be apart of the plan. Posting a no trespassing sign might be a good idea.


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## barnyardfun (Mar 26, 2005)

We already have no tresspassing signs on the driveway, have for years. There is a gate at the beginning of the driveway about a halfmile from my house (we have a long driveway!). Now us a sis-in-law share part of the driveway and then it y's off into seperate drives. I talked to her today and she is very upset about this situation and is willing to do anything to help us out. We share the gate that we have to drive thru and she said she is buying a lock today and new signs (the other one is a little faded) and we will keep the gate locked at the driveway. She said they don't mind the inconvienace of having to unlock the gate if it made me feel a little safer. 

I think locking the gate idea is good, they won't be able to drive to my house. BUT what about walk?? It would be easy for them to walk across the field and I would never know it unless I was outside and seen them coming! At least if they drive up to the house I normally see them and have a little time to react. But if they walk I won't know their coming, and they may get desperate enough to do just that! My kids need to play outside, it is only fair to them, but I can't be out there every minute. What if they take my kids. Right now I don't think I would put anything passed them! They have surprised me thus far so I don't know what they are capable of. And trust me.....you don't even want to know what my nightmares have been about!

Oh Lord! Please help me keep my sanity! I am on my last threads! :Bawling:


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## susieM (Apr 23, 2006)

Next time, call the cops. And where is the airhorn I told you to get?


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## barnyardfun (Mar 26, 2005)

susieM said:


> Next time, call the cops. And where is the airhorn I told you to get?


Airhorn??!! I must have missed that peice of advice! Now if the airhorn is intended to get my DH's attention, instead of the purpose of deafening us and my parents if they show up, I don't think it will work. DH is a mechanic and always has cars running, the compressor going, etc. Besides that he is half deaf (not medically proven but sure acts like it!) from all the other previous stuff listed!


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## Topaz Farm (Jan 27, 2005)

A No Tresspassing sign is kinda like some locks, only works with honest people.

If you have a Criminal No Tresspass letter served on them. It is filled out that so and so can not go onto such and such property. You have the County Attorney or the Sheriff Department fill one out ( or city police) with both their names and your property address, you in-laws address plus the shop. If they come on your property, call the cops immediately and they will be arrested.


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## Bink (Apr 13, 2003)

barnyardfun said:


> I think locking the gate idea is good, they won't be able to drive to my house. BUT what about walk??


Well, then you turn the hose on 'em.



> My kids need to play outside, it is only fair to them, but I can't be out there every minute. What if they take my kids.


You tell your kids they're not to go with _anyone _without a big hairy kicking biting scratching screeching fight. That will be hard for your parents to manage on foot.


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## barnyardfun (Mar 26, 2005)

My kids have a list of rules for outside. I can ask DD what she is supposed to do outside and she says "If I see anyone coming, even if it is my daddy, I get brother and get in the house NOW!" She knows what to do but that doesn't mean that in the situation she can do it. I am just scared to death to let them out of my site. DH and I were talking about how gratefull we are that we are homeschooling because I don't think I could have sent her to school knowing they may be able to access her there! 

I am looking in the mirror everyday.....I KNOW the gray hairs will be popping in like wildfire any day now. I swear I look like I have aged 10yrs in the last month! And I have gained a pound for every one of those years! I am bad about stress eating, and it doesn't help that I don't sleep well.

The kids like coming over to the inlaws because I will let them go out and play a bit more. DH, his partner, and I are all here to keep an eye out on them. My kids have a pretty good head on their shoulders for being so young. I just hate it that they have to be constantly looking over their backs when they should just be enjoying being kids! :grump:


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## susieM (Apr 23, 2006)

Fence? Electric fence? Mean dog? Noisy geese? Airhorn? Moat? Boobytrap? Registered letter? Lawyer? Court order? Police?


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## Bink (Apr 13, 2003)

barnyardfun said:


> I just hate it that they have to be constantly looking over their backs when they should just be enjoying being kids! :grump:


It could be worse. They could be sleeping with the grandparents.

Sounds like you've got a pretty good support system with your DH and inlaws. I'm glad to hear that. 

I'm hoping it would look too much like work for your parents to walk over there to try to entice your kids to go back with them when your kids don't want to go. It is a lot harder to drag a kid who has dropped to the ground and become a screaming, thrashing deadweight than it is to simply throw one into a vehicle.

I'm not certain your parents are crazy enough to kidnap your kids anyway. Do what you need to to get a restraining order or criminal no trespass against them. Then if they *do* go somewhere with your kids they can't claim they were "just visiting with them". It *would* be kidnapping, and that stuff is taken seriously.


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## Shepherd (Jan 23, 2005)

That's why I said in an earlier post "Turn your fear into anger at this point until you guys decide exactly which steps to take. You need to get to the point where instead of being fearful locked inside the house 24/7, you'll feel free to continue your life as you'd like and IF/when you're confronted by your parents, you'll be able to handle the situation the best you can at the time. That means having a plan laid out... And I do believe the day will come when you WILL be caught off guard with them on your doorstep or walking up to you in the yard, at a store, in a courtroom, etc. You just have to prepare yourself (do some role-playing in your mind for the different scenarios) for how you should deal with the situation at the time."

The more you think thru what you should do, how you should handle each different scenario, the better prepared you'll be when it actually happens. You are miserable living like this. It's not healthy. And it's not good for your kids to see you get so terribly upset when your parents show up or try calling. It's time now to turn your fear into anger and try to toughen yourself up. 

Bink is right - it could be worse. They could still be sleeping with your kids. 

Ask God for the strength & wisdom you need to gain control of this situation.


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## Bink (Apr 13, 2003)

Shepherd said:


> That's why I said in an earlier post "Turn your fear into anger at this point until you guys decide exactly which steps to take. You need to get to the point where instead of being fearful locked inside the house 24/7, you'll feel free to continue your life as you'd like and IF/when you're confronted by your parents, you'll be able to handle the situation the best you can at the time. That means having a plan laid out... And I do believe the day will come when you WILL be caught off guard with them on your doorstep or walking up to you in the yard, at a store, in a courtroom, etc. You just have to prepare yourself (do some role-playing in your mind for the different scenarios) for how you should deal with the situation at the time."


This is true. It really does help to have some sort of gameplan in mind. You're going to be thinking about it anyway, you might as well think it through.

At one time, I had a Temporary Order of Protection against an ex-boyfriend. He didn't know where I lived, and I wanted to keep it that way. I was terrified he'd follow me home on the bus until it occurred to me that if he did, I'd just ride it around all day if I had to.

I got on the bus one evening to find that he was indeed on it. I whispered the situation to the driver so he knew what was up, and ex-bf got off at the next stop.

I also had a plan that if he _did_ manage to follow me home, I'd act friendly, ask him in, offer him a beer, and while I was "going to get it" get the gun and shoot him, but I don't necessarily recommend that in your case.


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## wombatcat (Mar 29, 2005)

Dente deLion said:


> Make sure DH writes down every detail of that conversation. Not just the words, but time of day, location, who was standing where, etc. Try to get the words down as accurately as possible.


Not only what DDL said, but also DOCUMENT EVERYTHING. Every phone call. Every letter. Every message on the answering machine. Make copies of those. Every confrontation. Every time you see him/her in a place they wouldn't normally be. This documentation can back you up for the restraining order. You might also want to invest in a digital voice recorder (they're really small) so that if you have a verbal confrontation, you could record it and use it as evidence to back up your statements.

I live in MN and I'm sure the laws differ between where you are and here, but there are different kinds of restraining orders that you can get. Only one of those requires a police report.
Also, I would think that you could get some kind of order *just based on the stalking,* even if nothing else ever came up.....around here, they make sure that everyone from Jr Hi on up knows that you can get in big big trouble for stalking someone.
You should not have to live in fear because you want your family to be safe. 
Have you ever heard that the scariest time in a domestic abuse victim's life is when she tries to break away from the abuser? I think that is holding true for you, too :Bawling: Perhaps a rape counselor or an abuse advocate could tell you exactly what people in your shoes CAN do to protect themselves beyond the wonderful things you've already done--hats off to you for being honest with yourself and for going through all this to protect your kids!


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## tambo (Mar 28, 2003)

It could be you shake with fear because you have no way to protect yourself and your children if they break in. 

This may sound a little drastic but get a shotgun or a pistol and a consealed weapon permit. When you hear them coming,walk out on the porch with it.Shoot their head light out if they don't get the message. It wouldn't take but one time.And practice alot. It will empower you having a gun and knowing how to use it. Maybe they wont come at all if they know you have a gun. You don't have to shoot them just make them think you are. ( Unless it was SD) :flame: 

Don't let them keep you trapped in your own house another second. You and your children need some fresh air and exercise.

Take your life back. Show them you are not going to put up with their controlling ways another day. You are a mother and mothers can do anything.

Sorry you are going through this. 

IMHO SD would be the one hiding if he told my DH " I fell asleep.When I woke up my face was in her crouch." Your DH is a calm man if he didn't choke the life out of him then and there.

Stay strong you will get through this.


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## dashley (Jan 23, 2005)

tambo said:


> It could be you shake with fear because you have no way to protect yourself and your children if they break in.
> 
> This may sound a little drastic but get a shotgun or a pistol and a consealed weapon permit. When you hear them coming,walk out on the porch with it.Shoot their head light out if they don't get the message. It wouldn't take but one time.And practice alot. It will empower you having a gun and knowing how to use it. Maybe they wont come at all if they know you have a gun. You don't have to shoot them just make them think you are. ( Unless it was SD) :flame:
> 
> ...


I don't think a gun is a good idea, how ever taking charge of your situation would be beneficial. Standing up to them and telling them you do not want them around and if they continue to harass you, you will take further action against them. If you feel better doing it from behind the door, your voice can allow them to understand you mean business. Be firm!!!

Wombatcat hit the nail on the head, maybe you should seek help from counseling. I know you think you can't pay for that so please look into some of the free services, ask any of the people who have already been involved, there is help out there. You need to feel safe even when you are alone.


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## Ann-NWIowa (Sep 28, 2002)

I agree with counseling or whatever it takes to turn your fear into action. At some point you need to face your parents and tell them to bug off and leave you alone. If you need the sheriff standing there when you do fine. In fact, that would probably be a good idea. Call the sheriff and wait until he's there then go out and tell them to go away and stay away. No discussion, no listening to what they have to say, just tell them and go back inside and let the sheriff explain what no trespassing means. 

I'm a totally different temperment that you, but if they'd come pounding on my door I'd have opened it and told them where to go and how to get there in no uncertain terms. Now you are much younger than I and probably a lot nicer, but I made up my mind after years of physical, verbal and emotional abuse that when I left my parents home I was NEVER EVER going to take it again and I haven't. My motto is if they walk on me, they're going to have to pick a lot of thorns out of their feet. I would absolutely be out that door in in their face, but that's me not you. However, I really think you need to go about your daily routine, uncover your windows, and live free of fear. 

Your parents are bullies and bullies only understand being knocked down. It is going to require calling the sheriff each and every time they come onto your property. Instead of trembling in fear, get on the phone to the sheriff. Much better for the kids to see you function i.e. make that phone call than see you tremble and hide in fear.


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## dashley (Jan 23, 2005)

Ann, I am like you, it would be no problem for me to fling that door open and be all in their face, I am so much like this that my parents most likely would never come calling if I told them once to stay away. I was pushed around early enough that I don't take much!! I have a feeling BYF will also learn this too from everything she is going through. I think she is in the emotional stage and is in disbelief of the whole sorted mess right now. I think she is still hoping it is all just a big mistake.


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## Bink (Apr 13, 2003)

dashley said:


> I don't think a gun is a good idea


I agree. BYF isn't going to shoot her parents. All she'd be apt to do with a gun is try to persuade them to leave her alone, and there are safer ways of doing that. After all, your kids won't pick up a court order and accidentally kill themselves with it.

BYF--I know you don't want to face your parents in court, but I'll tell you that _that_ amount of fear and trembling won't last nearly as long as cowering in your house does. Your parents have been "upping the ante", going to court will show them that you're willing to do that, too, and that _you'll_ have the law on your side.

You have a good support system. You have people who will go to court with you and help you. The child advocate may even be willing to do so and/or know someone experienced in the court system who will.


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## MarleneS (Aug 21, 2003)

Barnyardfun, you are not going to feel safe and relaxed until you actually confront your parents, not saying you are yet ready to do this but it's a goal you should start to prepare yourself for, the longer you allow your fears of confrontation to rule the stronger they will become.

My first suggestion would be to talk to your pastor about being an intermediary, unless you can afford to pay a professional to be the intermediary. You should be given time to think about what it is you wish to say, or feel needs to be said, put it in writing and then have the your intermediary advise if the results will like be what you hope for. You will then have a meeting in a place where you can feel secure. 

Even if your parents refuse to take part in such a meeting, you will know that you did the right thing. If your parents refuse and keep trying to corner you into hearing them without someone else present to give you moral support, just keep telling them you have nothing to say until such a meeting takes place.

Initially this will feel like it's much more difficult to do then to just keep trying to avoid them, by hidding from them. You need to think like they think, when they know you are home trying to hide from them, they will likely seem themselves as still being in power. 

The future security for yourself and your family lies in your own hands, claim the power and take advantage of being the person most in the right. YOU can do this.

This is the only way you are going to put your fears at rest so that you can get on with your life knowing you have done everything you can for you and your families future happiness.


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## gleanerl (Apr 11, 2003)

MarleneS said:


> Barnyardfun, you are not going to feel safe and relaxed until you actually confront your parents, not saying you are yet ready to do this but it's a goal you should start to prepare yourself for, the longer you allow your fears of confrontation to rule the stronger they will become.
> 
> My first suggestion would be to talk to your pastor about being an intermediary, unless you can afford to pay a professional to be the intermediary. You should be given time to think about what it is you wish to say, or feel needs to be said, put it in writing and then have the your intermediary advise if the results will like be what you hope for. You will then have a meeting in a place where you can feel secure.
> 
> ...


i agree, good advice!


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## Hears The Water (Aug 2, 2002)

BYF, I am so sorry that you are feeling so scared. Nobody should have to ever feel that way, let alone take NyQuil so they can sleep because they feel this way all the time. Marlene has a good idea, but only you can know if it would work for them. My advice to you is that if you do try this, to go in there with realistic expectations. I mean, if you think that you can talk to them and they will realize that they have been wrong and they will never do it again, then you will have disappointment to deal with along with the fear and anger. I want to ask you a question. Please realize that I am asking it in a compassionate tone, not wanting to sound like I am coming down on you or anything. My question: Is the fear you are living with every day worth not having to face the fear of seeing him in a controlled environment such as a courtroom? Yes, it is very scary.. the thought of having to tell a judge what happened to you in the past, but I honestly think that it would be good for you to file charges against him for what he did to you, so you can start healing, and so you can get a restraining order against them. Have you thought that perhaps he keeps on coming around and sending your mom to intimidate you into not filing charges? (still asking in a compassionate tone) How long will you let him continue to victimize you? By his manipulations keeping you a prisoner in your home and shaking in fear, he is still winning isn't he? 

You can do this! You are so very very strong, we have all seen it. Yes, it is hard to face the fear, but I think you know deep in your heart that it is the best thing to do. Keep on fighting the good fight my friend, you have the prayers of all of us wrapping around you, and like Ardie said, you have God holding you in His hand. 
God bless you and yours
Deb


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## Wildwood Flower (Aug 26, 2006)

I agree, it is an awful idea to have some kind of "conversation" with your parents. Just do the legal deal and be done with it.

The sooner you quit mucking around in it, living in fear, the better off you will be. It is not healthy for your children to be watching you react this way and living in fear. 

Girl, you're a good Mom--and an overcomer. Take heart! 

You know that in an instant you would do it for your kids--well, they are modeling your behavior. "Courage is being scared to death, but saddling up anyway." John Wayne


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## dashley (Jan 23, 2005)

Hears The Water said:


> BYF, I am so sorry that you are feeling so scared. Nobody should have to ever feel that way, let alone take NyQuil so they can sleep because they feel this way all the time. Marlene has a good idea, but only you can know if it would work for them. My advice to you is that if you do try this, to go in there with realistic expectations. I mean, if you think that you can talk to them and they will realize that they have been wrong and they will never do it again, then you will have disappointment to deal with along with the fear and anger. I want to ask you a question. Please realize that I am asking it in a compassionate tone, not wanting to sound like I am coming down on you or anything. My question: Is the fear you are living with every day worth not having to face the fear of seeing him in a controlled environment such as a courtroom? Yes, it is very scary.. the thought of having to tell a judge what happened to you in the past, but I honestly think that it would be good for you to file charges against him for what he did to you, so you can start healing, and so you can get a restraining order against them. Have you thought that perhaps he keeps on coming around and sending your mom to intimidate you into not filing charges? (still asking in a compassionate tone) How long will you let him continue to victimize you? By his manipulations keeping you a prisoner in your home and shaking in fear, he is still winning isn't he?
> 
> You can do this! You are so very very strong, we have all seen it. Yes, it is hard to face the fear, but I think you know deep in your heart that it is the best thing to do. Keep on fighting the good fight my friend, you have the prayers of all of us wrapping around you, and like Ardie said, you have God holding you in His hand.
> God bless you and yours
> Deb



what Deb said!!


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## gracegarden (Mar 30, 2007)

BYF, "the Plan" is such a great idea!
Imagine. Have a written plan on pretty paper, with a flower, smiley, goat, whatever makes you (happy, calm,etc.)
Make a copy for each door, fridge, main window, etc. 
Actually pin or tape it up there! Look at it every day!  

List _your_ priorities:
(Something like this)

1. Call Sheriff
2. Gather Children
3. Bend down, hug children, pray aloud, "Dear Lord, help us to be strong, we know you love us and will protect us. Thank you, Jesus, Amen."
4. Call husband
5. Hide in bed
6. Drink whiskey when everything is over  
...


You have changed so much since the beginning. If you could just look back to how you felt, see how strong you HAVE become!
I feel for you.
I have been there.

Take care of yourself.
Make time, find a way to laugh and giggle with your family. You really do need it! Your darling husband and dear children need it!

We love you. We are your family.


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## MarleneS (Aug 21, 2003)

gleanerl said:


> i agree, good advice!


Thank you.

Marlene

P.S. Being true to one's self is often the more difficult of choices. If we choose to have others do for us we will never know the tremendous rewards of having the strength to do what we know is right. 

This fits well with my belief that as a nation we're way overly litigious.


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## Bink (Apr 13, 2003)

MarleneS said:


> Thank you.
> 
> Marlene
> 
> P.S. Being true to one's self is often the more difficult of choices. If we choose to have others do for us we will never know the tremendous rewards of having the strength to do what we know is right.


However, people raised in an abusive household are taught from "go" that _they don't matter_. It can be very empowering to have the court (i.e. all of society) on your side for once to overturn the wrong things your primary judges (parents) taught you.


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## js2743 (Dec 4, 2006)

you know BYF if you really dont wanna have any thing else to do with your mother and step dad you are gonna have to look them in the face and just tell them so. you cant keep running and hiding when they come around, i know it might be hard for you but after you do im sure you are gonna feel way much better. and tell them to stay off your property or you will charge them with trespassing. maybe you need to just call your mom and tell her over the phone when your hubby is there and when you are finished just hang up and be done with them. you got to stand up for your self and your family or people will allways run over you. i see on here people telling you to not have no more contact with them just do it in court, that is a cowardly way of doing it and then you still arent really standing up for yourself or to them. you got to do it YOURSELF and let them know you are serious your hubby cant do it, because they would think he was just telling you what to do or you will have trouble till the day they die. SO STAND UP TO THEM AND GET THIS BEHIND YOU.


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## backwoods (Sep 12, 2004)

My DIL's stepdad is a convicted, admitted, sex offender of a young girl. Yet, his wife, (my DIL's mother) still tries to INSIST that her daughter allow him to be around the grandchildren. She even brought him to my son's and DIL's home AFTER being repeatedly told they didn't want him to even know where they live. Don't think for a minute that she doesn't KNOW what's going on. Please, trust your instincts, have dd examined by a pediatrician, and follow through with whatever needs to be done to insure your dd and ds's protection.


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## Bink (Apr 13, 2003)

js2743 said:


> i see on here people telling you to not have no more contact with them just do it in court, that is a cowardly way of doing it and then you still arent really standing up for yourself or to them. you got to do it YOURSELF and let them know you are serious your hubby cant do it, because they would think he was just telling you what to do or you will have trouble till the day they die. SO STAND UP TO THEM AND GET THIS BEHIND YOU.


Um...no.

If she does it in court, they surely *will *know that she is serious. She will have the weight of the law behind her. Plus it will be a matter of record that she has stood up against them. She will have the protection of the law if/when her parents decide to disregard her wishes. There will be real consequences for them, from people beyond herself.

This isn't "High Noon". There is nothing "cowardly" about using the law as it is intended. Her stepfather appears to be a child molestor. That is a criminal offense. While it may be immensely gratifying to stand up and say "LEAVE ME ALONE & I MEAN IT!" and have it work, sometimes that isn't possible.

Personally, I hope she takes them to court, but if she stands up to them by herself, I applaud that, too. Nothing is served by telling her that one or another legitimate means of resolving this is "cowardly". There is nothing cowardly about BYF. If she were a coward, she'd have chosen to bury her head in the sand and allow a pervert continued access to her children.


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## susieM (Apr 23, 2006)

What Bink said.


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## Shepherd (Jan 23, 2005)

Yep, I completely agree with Bink.


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## dashley (Jan 23, 2005)

yes, what Bink said!!


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## Hears The Water (Aug 2, 2002)

Another vote for Bink! I am sure to someone who is empowered and sure of themselves, this whole thing looks kind of odd. But those of us that have had to scratch and claw our way to being sure of our selves, or those of us that are still in the process know that sometimes just taking that first step is HUGE. Facing her parents in a controlled environment such as in court could give her the confidence she needs to stand up to them. Not to mention, that people like her mom and step dad tend to put on their "nice face" when around others, and play dirty when alone. Being around the police and a judge might be a good place for her to start. Not to mention the legal side of it that Bink mentioned. 

BYF, what ever you chose to do, it won't be easy. You are in a place right now that is hard, and it may still get harder before it gets easier... but it WILL get better. You are going to emerge from this such a stronger woman, and you will have the knowledge that you walked through the flames for your children. All the marks of a good mom! You can do it!
God bless you and yours
Deb


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## frazzlehead (Aug 23, 2005)

Hi BYF - you're doing great, just wanted to say that.  

As for the court thing ... have you talked to a lawyer about it? It might be possible for you to level your own personal charges against your stepdad for the (very, very wrong) things he did to you, personally ... and you *might* not have to face him in the courtroom. Sometimes there are ways for you to make your statement(s), and then have a lawyer speak for you - or be able to give testimony to the judge in a closed courtroom without your step dad there, etc. 

I live in terror of seeing some people I had unpleasant dealings with (my son's grandparents, actually ... so I kind of do 'get it') - I shake for an hour if I even get a letter from them, so I kind of know what you mean. After a really scary legal confrontation a bit ago, I now have the judge on my side - if they bother us again, I can say "judge said ... so leave us alone". That knowledge makes me feel a *lot* better. I mean, I still don't want to see them (gack) but if they start bugging us, I know what to do and I know they'll be the ones to look like idiots and bullies.

I bet it would be the same for you - even though getting to that point will be scary, I have to recommend it for the peace of mind that comes afterwards.

Please think about it and get some legal advice specific to where you are. Ask what you would actually have to do, and if there are ways to avoid having a face to face - and you know, even if you DO have to see them, seeing them in court is not so bad. They can't do anything mean or nasty there - there are big men with sticks all over the place, ready to protect you! 

Think it over. In the meantime, keep on hanging in there - I'm really, really impressed with how strong you are!


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## MarleneS (Aug 21, 2003)

Forgive me if it hurts anyone's feelings, but thoughtout this thread I've read post after post from victims who's pain is so real you can almost feel it emitting from the screen. Victims well into adulthood who's hurt happened when they were very young children. I hold this up as evidence to support the idea that you can not heal until you confront the person(s) who harmed you. 

Note please that I did not even dare to suggest that she confront them alone, I suggested she be in a safe place, with people she trust there to give her moral support and protect her.

Please be honest, those of you who have been a victim of any kind of child abuse, how would it feel to be able to tell your perperator exactly what they did to you and explain the damage it is has done to your self esteem, and continues to do to this day.

This reasonsing is exactly why most courts in the country have a phase after the trial and before sentencing, to face the quilty party and confront them - it helps them heal. NOT get over, not forget but to heal.

I say to each of you who is still hurting, still carrying around so much anger, and still not healed from the harm done to you though no fault of your own, confront those who harmed you, even if they have been long dead. But your thoughts and feelings into words at their graves, in a letter, however best you can - and see if you still think I am wrong about the healing property of having done so. Even if all you wish to do is prove me wrong - try to do so, and if you still think I am wrong I'll be more then happy to change my mind.

Bink, I have not a single doubt that you mean well, and you are ideas are correct, they just are not all of what it takes to heal as close to completely as is possible. I'm all for legal recourse, but that is but one part of what it takes to start to build the life we all deserve in these situtations.

Hugs,
Marlene


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## dashley (Jan 23, 2005)

MarleneS said:


> Forgive me if it hurts anyone's feelings, but thoughtout this thread I've read post after post from victims who's pain is so real you can almost feel it emitting from the screen. Victims well into adulthood who's hurt happened when they were very young children. I hold this up as evidence to support the idea that you can not heal until you confront the person(s) who harmed you.
> 
> Note please that I did not even dare to suggest that she confront them alone, I suggested she be in a safe place, with people she trust there to give her moral support and protect her.
> 
> ...



While all this is very true, each person has their own time line in which they are able to do so. Unless something has changed since we last heard from BYF, she isn't ready to do that. One can't push the process to fast.


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## MarleneS (Aug 21, 2003)

dashley said:


> While all this is very true, each person has their own time line in which they are able to do so. Unless something has changed since we last heard from BYF, she isn't ready to do that. One can't push the process to fast.



You are correct. It likely would have helped if I pointed this out myself. Thankfully I did not make mention of Barnyardfun needing to do this immediately. Just something she needs to begin working on if she is to heal.

Hugs,
Marlene


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## barnyardfun (Mar 26, 2005)

Here is the latest......I just got this email this morning.

Shawnna,

I am not sure what must be going through your mind, but I feel you are very confused and must be deceived for you to treat your parents the way you are. If you feel that you are in the right then why won't you face us and tell us? What do you think that we have done to you that is so bad? Why won't you talk to us? What kind of stuff have you told the kids about us? Have you turned them against us also? Even if you truly believe that your dad has done something to you and Destiney.....Why did you let him watch her all those years???......Why won't you talk to me? What has made you give up your parents? You have completely broke our hearts and the worst part is that you will not even face us. You will have to answer for all that you and Greg are doing to us.

Your dad and I pray for you ALL the time....we are so concerned about you.

Thanks for returning the crockpot I never knew you were such a coward. I knew you had no back bone.. but people that really believe they are in the right will stand up for what they believe in and you never have. You get Greg on us and I will tell you now we won't give up until you face us. You want us out of your life then you stand up and tell us. We will not take it from Greg. Never!!!!!!

I came to you just wanting to see my daughter because I have missed you so much and you call Greg on me?????? Did I scare you? What did you think I was going to do? By the way you can tell Greg that I am not scared of him and I never will be scared of him!!! So his looks DO NOT intimidate me.

We feel very sorry for you because we feel that you are trapped. Like I said before we will not give up until you tell us you want us out of your life. It will have to come from you in person.

We are trying to sell our house I am sure that took some the pressure off of you. I know Greg must be happy. I want you to know the only reason for it is because its to close and it keeps both your dad and I upset. Our hearts break daily I know that doesn't matter to you but like I said before you and Greg will have to answer for what you have done. Oh and Honey don't forget you WILL reap what you sow.....God's word is the truth. Please keep reading and praying we are hoping you will come back to where you can hear God speak to you.

Hope to hear from you soon

We will always love you Shawnna and we miss the kids so much.....

mom
To all of you who don't seem to understand. I CANT FACE THEM! Okay I admit I have no backbone and I have NEVER been able to stand up to them. It is something about being in the presence that just shuts me down. When I am around them I just feel like I am completely in the wrong and I am not able to stand up to anything they say. :shrug: Sorry, I am not he-woman....what I am doing now is the best thing I can do, in my opinion. DH says he doesn't want me around them in person either....he knows how I am around them and refuses to let me go thru that. I don't know.....my thoughts and feelings are so jumbled up right now I can't think straight. All I know right now is I have to make lunch.


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## wr (Aug 10, 2003)

Reread the email again and read it objectively. It is very maniplulating. What loving mother tells her daughter that she knew she had no backbone or calls her daughter a coward or tells her daughter that she will have to answer for this? It is simply more manipulating drivel. Ask yourself why she asks if you have turned the children against them. She's trying to find out, in my opinion, what the children have told you.


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## Zipporah (Jul 30, 2006)

Prayers.


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## ginnie5 (Jul 15, 2003)

{{{{{{{{{{{BYF}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}} you are doing a great job! If you're not up to facing them then by all means don't. I agree that is a very manipulating email......reminds me of my own mother. One thing I fully believe is that if you're telling someone else what kind of a Christian they are you need to do some deep looking at yourself. Just completely ignore them and let dh handle them. It never fails to amaze me how people like this can be all loving concern for you one minute and then stick a knife in you the next.


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## Hears The Water (Aug 2, 2002)

BYF, oh honey I think I can honestly say that none of us wants you to feel like we think that you should do something that you can't do. Please don't feel badly because you are not ready to do confront your parents yet. When you are, it will feel so good to do it, but forcing yourself won't help. I am so sorry if my post made you feel bad in any way. It may take time for you to get to that point. And that's OK. 

As far as your mother's letter... all I can say is that it is very typical of a person that is a manipulator. I can see this because I am detached from the situation, for you it may not be so easy. Please don't take what she has said to you to heart. She is seeing that you are so strong and it is upsetting her because if you are strong, it messes up all that she has known. Most people don't like change. Actually the fact that she is writing something like this is a good sign, it means she sees you slipping away from her grasp and wants to try anything to get you to come back. Keep on doing what you are doing, keep a copy of this letter in case you need it later on too. Did you notice how many times she said that you need to face them? It is because she knows that they can manipulate you face to face. They know you are stronger, but they don't know yet how strong you are. When you are ready, you sure are going to surprise them! I know you can do it...and that you will be ready in your own time. 
God bless you and yours
Deb


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## dashley (Jan 23, 2005)

wr said:


> Reread the email again and read it objectively. It is very maniplulating. What loving mother tells her daughter that she knew she had no backbone or calls her daughter a coward or tells her daughter that she will have to answer for this? It is simply more manipulating drivel. Ask yourself why she asks if you have turned the children against them. She's trying to find out, in my opinion, what the children have told you.


Yes,this is true. I think you have more backbone than anyone I know. I don't know what I would have done if this had happen to me at the age you are now. You haven't been gone from your parents care very long at all. The way you were brought up is all you have to look to. And all that was somewhat screwed up. You are doing fine. It takes time for you to process everything. Don't worry about what everyone is saying right now!! You do what is best for you when you are ready!! And know we are praying for you. Someone said in a earlier post that we are your family here and we are. We are here for you to vent to and lean on and more so to encourage you, just do not pay any attention to anything that makes you feel like you don't have backbone. 


No Mother should ever say such nastyness to her Child. The reason you may feel like you have no backbone with them is because of this kind of poison coming out of your Mothers mouth all your life. Making you feel like you are weak when in fact you are VERY STRONG, it took GREAT COURAGE to take the first step to protecting you own Child!!

You will be fine, we are proud of you!! You are a wonderful Mother!!! And you have a Wonderful Husband.

God Bless you!!!


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## giometriks (Jul 24, 2005)

You're doing great. Don't believe her. These are the people that abused you, manipulated your and continually cut you down. Sweetie it's NORMAL not to want to face them. I do hope you can see how much more healthy you are now then when this started. 

Big Hugs and keep up the good work!

Suzi


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## chickenista (Mar 24, 2007)

If your mother was truly concerned about you and your well being, the letter wouldn't be about her. She is very concerned about herself and how she looks to others like your children. How their hearts are broken...when a true loving person would understand that you must be feeling awful and that your heart must be broken to know that you cannot trust the people closest to you. 
She is not a very nice person. Guilt tripping you(it was your decision to let the creep watch her..oh please), name calling, assuming that you must be being controlled, for you obviously are too stupid to make decisions and have ideas for yourself, and threatening you with hell and damnation. 
Please, I beg you...don't ever face these people. They are truly not deserving of the honor and respect that confronting them would denote. It would not go well. They would screech and defile you and make you doubt yourself even more. They are not reasonable people and a reasonable conversation with postive results is impossible to achieve. Decide from this moment on to get on with your life and think nothing of that which has gone before.


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## susieM (Apr 23, 2006)

About that letter...these people are playing for keeps.


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## AngieM2 (May 10, 2002)

byf - you're doing great. I know I never could stand up to my parents, especially my dad (he was just very domineering, nothing like what you have) cause I was always the "good girl".

One day after moving back into their realm due to divorce, he came over and started in on me - it was a bad day from work and it was the wrong day -
I told him exactly what I thougth, etc.

Your One day will come, it maybe in the near future, it may be a year or two down the road when you see them on the street somewhere and they come over to you - but YOU will have the strength and anger with resolve to politely and cooly tell them exactly what you need to say to them. It just appears that the time is not right at this time.

Also, during my divorce - facing my then hubby was horrible for me, I should like a cold nervousness the whole time. I only got thru it due to the lawyer by my side, and just paying absolute attention to the judge and not even looking at him. Though I could feel his stare, etc.

If you have to go to court, dress nice and pay attention to your lawyer and the judge - have tunnel vision. It probably will distress you, but if it's more than one time - you will find that you build a protective mental shield they cannot penitrate that works wonders.

I'm wishing you every good day and good outcome. You are, via this thread, visibly getting stronger and more free. Becoming a better example for your children. 

Many Huggs and good wishes and extra strength.
Angie


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## Bink (Apr 13, 2003)

barnyardfun said:


> To all of you who don't seem to understand. I CANT FACE THEM! Okay I admit I have no backbone and I have NEVER been able to stand up to them. It is something about being in the presence that just shuts me down. When I am around them I just feel like I am completely in the wrong and I am not able to stand up to anything they say. :shrug: Sorry, I am not he-woman....what I am doing now is the best thing I can do, in my opinion. DH says he doesn't want me around them in person either....he knows how I am around them and refuses to let me go thru that. I don't know.....my thoughts and feelings are so jumbled up right now I can't think straight. All I know right now is I have to make lunch.


Girl, that's fine. I had hoped you could face them in court because I think that would make some things easier for you. But if you can't, you can't, and you'll just have to find other ways of accomplishing the same thing (keeping yourself and your kids safe). I'm not certain I could have faced my folks down in court, either, for what it's worth.

No backbone?! BULL!  You've got more backbone than your mother, though she has more sheer gall than anybody I've ever seen. I'm going to pick her email apart after I think on it. It's a real piece of work.


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## susieM (Apr 23, 2006)

Don't answer that letter...pass it on to your lawyer. Or the social worker. Or the cops.


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## Bink (Apr 13, 2003)

MarleneS said:


> Bink, I have not a single doubt that you mean well, and you are ideas are correct, they just are not all of what it takes to heal as close to completely as is possible. I'm all for legal recourse, but that is but one part of what it takes to start to build the life we all deserve in these situtations.


Marlene, this doesn't pertain to BYF, but I don't understand how you figure that confronting someone in court is somehow NOT confronting them.

I faced down my ex-bf in court, and I can_ assure_ you it _was_ a confrontation and that it took a great deal of courage to do so, especially since he'd often promised me he'd kill me if I ever called the cops on him.

I also confronted him alone, one on one and told him in no uncertain terms to LEAVE ME ALONE. While that may have been satisfying and cathartic, it did absolutely no practical good; he certainly didn't say, "Oh. I had no idea you felt that way. Guess I'll just scurry along". I had much better luck with the court system.


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## A'sta at Hofstead (Sep 20, 2006)

What is glaringly obvious in the letter is her total lack of care and concern for you- she also does not deny anything, which is funny, if I were your mom and my child did this and I knew it to be un-true, I would be denying and begging for trust, and stating firmly in no uncertain terms that nothing happened, I just don't read that there, and it really confirms my suspicions.... 


> What do you think that we have done to you that is so bad? Why won't you talk to us?


 They know what the accusations are right? I suppose she thinks molestation is "not so bad" 
You are not a coward, far from it.


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## Wildwood Flower (Aug 26, 2006)

Hi BYF,
I just want to give you a big hug too and a pat on the back. Atta Girl! See, you've stuck to your guns, let your husband handle it--like a husband should--and your mother and step-dad are showing their colors--big time.

You have tremendous courage--just to air all of this here with us. And that has made all the difference. There's an old saying "We're only as sick as our secrets." It's not a secret anymore, so it has no power over you.

Your poor mother is very much delusional--especially about throwing the God deal in there. Oh yea, guilt trip from above. And they are "praying for you". Paleeeez! 

And they are moving away--and it's all your fault. Wahhh wahhh wahhh whine whine whine

I'm so glad you have decided not to confront them--unless it be in court. Believe me, they could never handle making this so very public. People like this thrive on secrecy and manipulation.

You're doing great! And don't be afraid of them--can't you see it--they're on the run. And all you had to do was stand your ground---and depend on your dear husband. He's a champion!


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## countrymommyof3 (Feb 24, 2007)

barnyardfun said:


> What do you think that we have done to you that is so bad? Why won't you talk to us? What kind of stuff have you told the kids about us? THE TRUTH Have you turned them against us also? Even if you truly believe that your dad has done something to you and Destiney.....Why did you let him watch her all those years???......NOT YOUR FAULTWhy won't you talk to me? What has made you give up your parents? You have completely broke our hearts and the worst part is that you will not even face us. AGAIN NOT YOUR FAULT
> 
> I came to you just wanting to see my daughter because I have missed you so much and you call Greg on me?????? Did I scare you? What did you think I was going to do? By the way you can tell Greg that I am not scared of him and I never will be scared of him!!! So his looks DO NOT intimidate me.SHE HAS LOST CONTROL AND IS JUST FIGURING IT OUT
> 
> ...


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## susieM (Apr 23, 2006)

She's asking why did you let hoim take care of the kids for so long, if you suspected something? Like, why did you let him take care of the kids if you had minded what he had done to you, when you were little?

It sounds as if she is setting up some sort of precedence...to say you were okay with it all, since you never complained about when it happened to you, or files a complaint about you and him in recent times.

Have you filed that complaint? Because if you haven't, she'll use that against you.


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## Jan Doling (May 21, 2004)

When you go to court (and you must do this, no matter how scared they have made you, or they will win) your wonderful husband should be allowed to go with you. When I got my restraining order, my pastor went with me. 

You are being stalked â¦.and in your own home, no less! Get an attorney, file against step-dad, and then there should be no problem getting a restraining order (which will keep himaway from your kids, also). Insist to your attorney that you want to make the restraining order:
1) a permanent one, so you donât have to redo it everytime the 
court makes a minor decision and
2) includes both him and your mother as she is also stalking and 
intimidating you via phone and in person.

Filing charges for what step-dad did to you will pave the way for your protection. The restraining order is necessary for your sanity and for the kids to have a normal life. 

Is your oldest going to school yet? If so, you need to give the school a copy of the restraining order and put in writing that the grandparents are not allowed near the child under any circumstances (my ex snatched one of my kids between the classroom and the school bus and when only one child got off the bus at the baby sitterâs house, the police got involved.) Make sure everyone knows about not letting the grandparents near the kids.

Since you didnât know about the wedding until now, they can hardly expect you to attend on such short notice anyway. Just say, âSorry, we have plans already for that day.â

Itâs not going away until you take legal action. Let professionals deal with the criminalâ¦..you are the victim and should not have to. Get counselling! I was amazed when the counselor handed me a profile of abusers...I asked her how she knew my husband! They follow a pattern and there are ways to beat them at their game. Don't even try to do it on your own. Ask the counsellor about a victims' advocate program in your state. You may even be able to get some funds to install the alarms you need or maybe help pay the legal fees.

You seem to be suffering (as I did) from Post Traumatic Stress Disorder. This makes it hard to sleep, your nerves are shot, and so you don't make the best decisions. Let your husband and his family help you with every decision. The reason you let your step dad take care of the kids is that he had you snow-balled and confused. You are now waking up and growing up. Good for you! Who would you rather disappoint: 2 perverted "parents" or dozens of wonderful HT posters?


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## Bink (Apr 13, 2003)

barnyardfun said:


> Shawnna,
> 
> I am not sure what must be going through your mind, but I feel you are very confused and must be deceived for you to treat your parents the way you are. If you feel that you are in the right then why won't you face us and tell us? What do you think that we have done to you that is so bad?


The âsenile actâ isnât cute. She knows full well what you âthink they didâ sheâs been fully apprised of it. She alludes to it further along, anyway. And as far as them doing âbad thingsâ, cutting off the grandkidsâ water was a nifty touch, don't you think?



> Why won't you talk to us? What kind of stuff have you told the kids about us?


*Translation:*
*OMG*! I hope you didnât have the âgood touch/bad touchâ conversation!!!!!!	Or the âwe donât have to keep bad secretsâ talk!!!!! The kid hasnât said anything yet, but sheâs got years left in which she can. I canât stand the suspense!!!!!!!!



> Have you turned them against us also? Even if you truly believe that your dad has done something to you and Destiney.....Why did you let him watch her all those years???


*Your reason:*
Um, because you guys told me that what he did to me was an accident, and I believed you because I trusted you to look out for me. Wasnât that silly? But when I saw signs of the same thing happening to my daughter, I realized you were liars.

And oh, isnât your mother just _wonderful_ to take her own failure to protect you and your daughter and turn around and blame *you* for it? That takes sheer gall. A possum is a better mother.



> ......Why won't you talk to me? What has made you give up your parents? You have completely broke our hearts and the worst part is that you will not even face us. You will have to answer for all that you and Greg are doing to us.


*Translation:*
ME ME ME ME ME!!!!!!!!! DIVINE PUNISMENT FROM ON HIGH!!!! RAR!!!!!!!



> Your dad and I pray for you ALL the time....we are so concerned about you *(turning our sorry behinds in)*





> Thanks for returning the crockpot I never knew you were such a coward. I knew you had no back bone.. but people that really believe they are in the right will stand up for what they believe in and you never have. You get Greg on us and I will tell you now we won't give up until you face us. You want us out of your life then you stand up and tell us. We will not take it from Greg. Never!!!!!!


What do crockpots have to do with backbone?

*Translation: *
We hate that you have someone on your side who isnât under our power! You wonât allow us to come bully and browbeat you anymore, you big chicken! Chickennn! Neener neener neener!



> I came to you just wanting to see my daughter because I have missed you so much and you call Greg on me?????? Did I scare you? What did you think I was going to do? By the way you can tell Greg that I am not scared of him and I never will be scared of him!!! So his looks DO NOT intimidate me.


*Translation:*
No, I just about killed myself getting out of there because I realized I was missing a Wheel of Fortune rerun. And I had to change my panties. I hadn't counted on your husband taking up for you.



> We feel very sorry for you because we feel that you are trapped. Like I said before we will not give up until you tell us you want us out of your life. It will have to come from you in person.


*Translation:*
I am so frustrated that I'm about to start banging my head against the wall!!!! I can't believe I haven't been able to get at you. Maybe if I frighten you enough by saying I'll never give up, I'll get you to break down and talk to me so I can twist your thinking all around again. Iâll make you so ashamed that you could ever think such awful things about your loving mother and stepdad that youâll allow us unquestioned access to your kids, and weâll never have to pay for what weâve done. Then we can keep you under our heels for years to punish you for ever standing up to us.



> We are trying to sell our house I am sure that took some the pressure off of you. I know Greg must be happy. I want you to know the only reason for it is because its to close and it keeps both your dad and I upset.


*Translation*:
We figure we might as well. Once Gramps is a registered sex offender, heâll have to stay a certain distance from the kids, anyway. As a bonus, we can use the sale of the house to mess you over on the water. Besides, weâre not sleeping well with Greg over there. We don't know what he might do. He might even burn down the house with us in it. We know some people really don't like child molestors.



> Our hearts break daily I know that doesn't matter to you but like I said before you and Greg will have to answer for what you have done. Oh and Honey don't forget you WILL reap what you sow.....God's word is the truth. Please keep reading and praying we are hoping you will come back to where you can hear God speak to you.


You can tell she doesnât believe a word of it. If she did, sheâd be terrified of what sheâs getting ready to reap.

Luckily, youâre smarter than that. And they never bargained that you would love your children enough to protect them after the years of training theyâve given you. Guess they expected you to take after your mom.



> Hope to hear from you soon


*Translation:*
Because I have no idea what I'll do if this doesn't work. You're tougher than I thought. It must be that darn Greg.



> and we miss the kids so much.....


*Translation:*
No kidding. Gramps has been a real bear to live with lately. Please give him access to your daughter so he can mellow the heck out.
mom


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## MullersLaneFarm (Jul 23, 2004)

Bink,

If your translation wasn't so true it would be down right hilarious.


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## countrymommyof3 (Feb 24, 2007)

Bink is 100% right. It was perfectly translated. :dance:


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## susieM (Apr 23, 2006)

Yep.


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## dashley (Jan 23, 2005)

Bink, you are too funny!!

But is most likely just the way it really is. My ex did things like this while we were going through our divorce. This woman did it in writing because she isn't able to do it in person. But the letter showed it just as I remember it. He was so unstable with us he couldn't be trusted at all, the police came by several times a day to check on us. One night he came to the house and he was in the car port at the back door, one moment he would be acting like he was crying and all concerned about us and in the same breath he was going to use a hammer to break out the wind shield in my car if I didn't open the door and let him in!! It was scary. One moment he was sweet and sugar and the next he was a demon. This was how her letter read. One moment they were concerned about her and the next she was calling her a coward.

BYF I am so sorry you are having to go through all of this, I pray they do move but I have a feeling that is nothing but bull, it is their way of trying to put guilt on you. It wouldn't surprise me at all if they let you know some how that they aren't going anywhere. And I think they will do it as soon as they realize that they haven't been able to get to you with that. They are going to pull all kinds of stuff to get to you. 

God Bless you!!!


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## Snugglebunny (Oct 20, 2004)

I've been following this from the beginning, and just had to say:

That email is one big huge GUILT trip. She's bending over backwards to make BYF feel guilty for everything that's happened, right down to "See what you did? You made us sell our house! What a horrible daughter you are!" She's trying so hard to put the ball in BYF's court, to make BYF the wrong one...because it's beginning to dawn on her that all these years she's just as guilty as her own husband. She's desperate for someone to tell her she's right.

And she wants to know whether BYF is badmouthing her own mother. She can't stand not knowing what's going on in BYF's house, and it kills her that she can't manipulate BYF's hubby. A lot has been invested in this. She's spent a long time forming her own reality. Now her own daughter goes and pulls it all down...and she's desperately trying to pin it back up again.

Sorry...just my own take on it.  I could be wrong, I'm no expert or anything.


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## turtlehead (Jul 22, 2005)

Bink for President!!! (or something)

BYF, every single sentence in that email is either a guilt trip or a threat. There is not ONE loving sentence in it.

It might help to file a restraining order against them and put an auto-delete rule in your email so you don't have to see that crap any more. 

What a total load of hogwash. It makes me sick with disgust, but I can see how it would turn your world upside down and scare the bejeebers out of you. 

You are amazingly strong. Your strength shines in your actions. Strong is doing what needs to be done even when you're afraid.
You are superman strong.


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## Tricky Grama (Oct 7, 2006)

Oh,BYF, listen to everyone: WIH, Grometrics, chickenista, dashley, MarleneS, Snugglbunny, turtlehead, I can't rmemeber the rest who have ALL supported you & given wonderful advice. OH-BINK!! Anyway, just imagine ALL of us praying & thinking good thoughts your way-all the way thru this!

Patty


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## PBPitcher (Aug 15, 2005)

BYF - I have been following this from the very beginning, and I cannot begin to imagine the inner strength you are displaying. My prayers have been with your family from the beginning, and they will continue to be with you every day. ***Hugs***


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## dashley (Jan 23, 2005)

bump


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## barnyardfun (Mar 26, 2005)

Where still hanging on around here. I finally go some sleep aid and some herbs to help ease the depression feelings. Makes getting up in the morning a little easier. 

Talked to step brother a little while ago and again informed him that we wouldn't be there, he just kind of acted like he didn't hear me. I got his address and I will send out a card tomorrow. I just wonder if I should send a letter with the card explaining why I won't be there. I thought he got the just of it but today he acted all Innocent like he wasn't sure what was going on. I am just worried because the lady he is marrying has a little girl the same age as mine and a little boy younger then my boy. I guess I just want to tell him everything I know so that maybe he will keep that little doubt in the back of his mind and won't be so trusting with his soon to be kids. :shrug: 

I don't know! I know that what we are doing is the best thing for us but sometimes it is just so hard. Habits I guess.....Old habits die hard. I just keep feeling like I need to fall back in my place under my parents rule. It just feels so unnatural to be making decisions on my own and not worrying about what anyone else feels about it. I feel like I need to tuck my tail and hang my head and go over there telling them I was all wrong and sorry. These feelings make me sad and angry! Sad because I feel like I am in the wrong, and angry that I feel like I am in trouble because I am not obeying! :grump:


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## StoneFence (Feb 4, 2005)

BYF,

feeling sad and angry is NORMAL. You have every right to feel these things.


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## dashley (Jan 23, 2005)

BYF, have you looked into counseling? I really think it is important. It will certainly help you deal with all the emotions that come with this.

Maybe you and your DH and Children could get away for a weekend too, you could use a little down time from all of this.


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## Bink (Apr 13, 2003)

barnyardfun said:


> Habits I guess.....Old habits die hard. I just keep feeling like I need to fall back in my place under my parents rule. It just feels so unnatural to be making decisions on my own and not worrying about what anyone else feels about it. I feel like I need to tuck my tail and hang my head and go over there telling them I was all wrong and sorry. These feelings make me sad and angry! Sad because I feel like I am in the wrong, and angry that I feel like I am in trouble because I am not obeying! :grump:


That's normal. We are designed to internalize what our parents teach us. We don't have much in the way of instinct, so our brains have to latch onto training. Deep down, we all believe that our parents were right. That's why it's so hard to counsel and train people out of what they learned in childhood.

If counseling isn't doable for you right now, you may check your library for books on incest survivors. Many of the people in them will have stories you thought were yours alone. It's very helpful to find that some things are _patterns of behavior_, not something that was your fault.


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## susieM (Apr 23, 2006)

Yay! You're getting there!


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## Dente deLion (Nov 27, 2006)

barnyardfun said:


> Talked to step brother a little while ago and again informed him that we wouldn't be there, he just kind of acted like he didn't hear me. I got his address and I will send out a card tomorrow. I just wonder if I should send a letter with the card explaining why I won't be there. I thought he got the just of it but today he acted all Innocent like he wasn't sure what was going on. I am just worried because the lady he is marrying has a little girl the same age as mine and a little boy younger then my boy. I guess I just want to tell him everything I know so that maybe he will keep that little doubt in the back of his mind and won't be so trusting with his soon to be kids.


I would advise against "telling him everything" in a letter. It's inconceivable that he does not know what's going on, and if you send a letter, he will show it to his dad, who then will know exactly what you know - and, more importantly, what you don't know yet.




turtlehead said:


> It might help to file a restraining order against them and put an auto-delete rule in your email so you don't have to see that crap any more.


I do recommend pursuing the restraining order (I know you tried once already but you have more specific evidence now so it may be time to try again) - but I do *NOT* recommend deleting the emails!! What better evidence could you ask for than their own words? You don't have to read them, and definitely don't respond to them, but keep them on the system. DH can read them, and if you have a printer, he can print them. Or you can ask him to post them here so there is a record of everything in case your computer goes on the fritz or something. He can even post them in a separate thread so you don't have to accidentally see them in this one.

Lastly, Shawnna, I am becoming more and more concerned that you have not been seeking counseling and legal advice. I could be totally wrong, of course - you are certainly entitled to keep some details from us  - but, if you haven't, please do it. If you're worried about expenses, just be up front with them and ask if they will agree to reduced fees or a payment plan. Most professionals of both kinds deal with stressed financial situations all the time. While many of us posters have offered brilliant advice, we can't be substitutes for the real thing.


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## barnyardfun (Mar 26, 2005)

Okay, I know I am going to get slammed for this statement but here it goes.....I DON'T WANT TO GO TO COUNCELING! That would require reliving the situation and I don't want to go there! It is enough having to live it right now! :grump: 

On another note. I just got off the phone with an attorney. He pretty much told me my only option is to just call the police if they show up. There is really nothing else I can do. I told him they wanted to take me to court for visitation rights and he told me that was not something I need to worry about. And then he asked what my parents name was....hmm, weird I thought, I wonder if they have called him to see what they could do? Anyway, he suggested that maybe since they haven't got the point yet, even though they should have, that maybe I should write them a letter informing then they are not to be on my property and have it send certified. And I need to keep a copy of it to show the police if they show up again. That's pretty well all he had to say. Call the police, he said that at least a DOZEN times! I think I get the point!


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## Dente deLion (Nov 27, 2006)

barnyardfun said:


> And then he asked what my parents name was....hmm, weird I thought, I wonder if they have called him to see what they could do?


I think that's standard procedure just in case they *do* call - so he'll know not to talk to them. If he inadvertently gives advice to both sides of the situation, well, he could have a big problem on his hands. 

And I understand how you feel about the counseling. I would not slam you for deciding against it. In fact, I'm rather proud of you for putting your foot down about it!  

If you do write the letter the attorney suggested, keep it short and to the point. No emotions, no "you know why" - just "don't come here."


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## barnyardfun (Mar 26, 2005)

I was thinking the letter should be very formal like.....

To So and So,

This is to notify you that you are not to set foot on the following premisis...

And list my house, the inlaws, and shop (which is right next to inlaws house but we will play it safe here)

And maybe about something to the fact that this letter is being kept on file (they don't have to know it is only on file at my house!) and the police will be notified immediatly if they show up?

I don't know.....anyone else know how to make it sound more professional and intimidating?  

That you for not 'scolding' me on the couceling thing. I just can't do it right now. I hate it that we are having to live it and that people know about it. I just don't want to talk to anyone else about the why's of me feeling this way. Right now it is too fresh and I am just getting used to the feeling part of it, there is no way I want to talk about it! DH even has a hard time getting me to talk. 

I talk a bit more to you guys, you are my therapy right now. There is NO WAY I could have made it this far without all of you. And I am fixing to start a book that someone on here sent me so maybe that will help too. :shrug:


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## barnyardfun (Mar 26, 2005)

Dente deLion said:


> I think that's standard procedure just in case they *do* call - so he'll know not to talk to them. If he inadvertently gives advice to both sides of the situation, well, he could have a big problem on his hands.
> ."


The poor guys has conflicts everywhere! He had trouble giving me advice because he is an attorney and the judge in one of our local towns!


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## susieM (Apr 23, 2006)

Why won't the lawyer write the letter for you?

I can understand not wanting to go to counseling...but you are reliving it every moment of the day, counseling or not...so it may help you to go.


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## barnyardfun (Mar 26, 2005)

susieM said:


> Why won't the lawyer write the letter for you?


I guess that was not an option. I asked if I needed to write the letter myself or if I needed to get an attorney to write it. I don't think he ever directly answer me!  I think I may call a different attorney tomorrow. He was the only one I seen in the phone book that just said 'general' most of the rest of them specialized in something.


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## susieM (Apr 23, 2006)

Maybe he was trying to be helpful, and inexpensive for you.


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## Tricky Grama (Oct 7, 2006)

barnyardfun said:


> I guess that was not an option. I asked if I needed to write the letter myself or if I needed to get an attorney to write it. I don't think he ever directly answer me!  I think I may call a different attorney tomorrow. He was the only one I seen in the phone book that just said 'general' most of the rest of them specialized in something.


Byf-

The lawyer will charge you for writing the letter. I think there'd be a lot of people here who could whip it out & others who could 'critique' it (nicely, I'm sure) & within a few hours you'd have a good one ready. Just be sure you send it 'certified'.

We're pulling for you!! Goodess, what's this up to-18 pages!!

Patty


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## hisenthlay (Feb 23, 2005)

There is no reason I know of why an attorney would have to write that letter for you--it is simple enough, you already know what to say, and it is no more "official" or meaningful coming from an attorney than from you, except to the extent that your parents might be more impressed with an attorney's letterhead. Otherwise, paying an attorney to write this letter is a waste of money. What you wrote looks fine, except that "premisis" should be spelled "premises". You might also want to note that their presence on any of those properties will be considered trespass, and the police will be notified immediately (as you already stated, I'm just adding the trespass bit). Do be sure to keep a copy of the letter, and send it certified, as the attorney said--that will make it as "official" as you need it to be. 

Since you don't want to go to counseling, reading books on the subject is an excellent alternative--sounds like you're on the right track.


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## Dente deLion (Nov 27, 2006)

Tricky Grama said:


> I think there'd be a lot of people here who could whip it out & others who could 'critique' it (nicely, I'm sure) & within a few hours you'd have a good one ready.


I nominate Bink!


:hobbyhors


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## Bink (Apr 13, 2003)

barnyardfun said:


> I was thinking the letter should be very formal like.....
> 
> To So and So,
> 
> ...


I don't know what wording to use, but you'd also want to specify that they are not to contact you or your children in person or by phone, by letter, by email, nor are they to have others contact you on their behalf.



> That you for not 'scolding' me on the couceling thing. I just can't do it right now. I hate it that we are having to live it and that people know about it. I just don't want to talk to anyone else about the why's of me feeling this way. Right now it is too fresh and I am just getting used to the feeling part of it, there is no way I want to talk about it! DH even has a hard time getting me to talk.
> 
> I talk a bit more to you guys, you are my therapy right now. There is NO WAY I could have made it this far without all of you. And I am fixing to start a book that someone on here sent me so maybe that will help too. :shrug:


That's fine. You have enough on your plate right now. You don't have to do everything all at once. You don't have to heal instantly.  You can always get counceling at another time if you desire, or not at all. I hope the book someone sent you helps.


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## Bink (Apr 13, 2003)

Dente deLion said:


> I nominate Bink!
> 
> 
> :hobbyhors


Oh noooooo! I don't do legalese! I did make some suggestions above that I hope she finds useful.


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## Guest (Aug 28, 2007)

*quote*
I talk a bit more to you guys, you are my therapy right now

Erm, I don't know about the others but I charge a 100 dollars an hour, LOL
Just kidding. ;-) 

I have many thoughts on this, but no time to write them down right now, I'll come back later. 
Just to help you on the counseling thing:

I don't think anyone wants to add even more stress to your life, if you don't feel ready, then just don't. A ton of stuff happened to me and I never went to counseling. I'm strongly against it, actually, for pretty much the same reasons as you. Either way, I think I turned out to become a pretty great person even without it! (The only thing I don't have under control is the bragging thing, lol.) 
Anyway, you don't HAVE to go to counceling to overcome some things, in most parts of the world people never do. But... Just to give you a balanced view, my dad (who's a very down to earth kind of guy) DID go to counseling and he said it helped him a lot. My grandfather & grandmother were very violent people and he said it took a weight off his shoulders to just be able to talk to someone objective, while knowing that it wasn't someone he had to see again in his daily life. So, it CAN help, too.

I think it's just that you are such a sweet, young girl and people read your story & their hearts just ache for you, so they want you to be happy instead of sad and frigthened... Therapy has helped many people achieve that so that's why many are trying to offer this as a solution for you. It's offered with love, I think.  Maybe one day down the road it will help, and maybe you never will. Up to you. 

As far as your letter goes I think keeping it business-like is the best, and I'm sure that if you post it here many will give great advice. If you post a try-out I'll look at it too, if you want, I'm used to legal stuff. 
Also, keep in mind that having a laywer write it out for you can be expensive! Ask what he/she charges before you give them the go-ahead on something like this. 

Your mom's letter was weird. :-/ Sounds like something my grandmother could have written, she was always more concerned with herself & what others thought of her then with her children/grandchildren, too. 

I'll write more if I have the time. Hang in there! I know that demeaning email must have made you feel bad inside, but you know what? 
You're doing great and throughout this all, you've been capable of making complete strangers care for you & feel proud of you. You did that. You wrote what was on your mind and people saw you for what you are, a very sweet girl who's insecure because she has been bullied for a long time, but is now finally growing up. No one thought you were stupid or weak or dumb. Everyone thought you were great, and that you were worth worrying about. 
The problem is with her, not you. Don't let her get you down.


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## barnyardfun (Mar 26, 2005)

Bink said:


> Oh noooooo! I don't do legalese! I did make some suggestions above that I hope she finds useful.


OH NOW COME ON!  Someone has to translate all of this into legalese for me! PLEASE! Anyone?? :help: 

I do like the idea of adding them not having any contact with us even if they see us in public.

Hmmm....I have no idea how to write it to sound 'professional'.


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## hisenthlay (Feb 23, 2005)

BYF--what you wrote so far sounds fine. I'm a lawyer--I don't do domestic law, and I'm not licensed to practice in your state, so I can't give you any official advice--but I can tell you that the only reason you need a lawyer in a case like this is to give you advice on what you should be doing. You already had a licensed attorney in your state give you that advice for free, so consider yourself one step ahead! If you want to write a letter and post it on here, or PM it to me, I'll be happy to edit it and/or let you know if it sounds official enough, but honestly, what you've got already looks good--simple and to the point. I assume the lawyer's reason for telling you to write such a letter is to put your parents on official, undeniable notice that their presence is not welcome and that by ignoring your no trespass signs, they will be committing criminal trespass, which is probably a low class misdemeanor in your state. 

I also took a quick look at the Arkansas law on stalking and harassment, and it looks like notice of your desire NOT to receive communications is not an element of those crimes--if that is the case, perhaps the attorney did not suggest you add anything about your parents not contacting you to the letter because it doesn't help anything, and just increases your communication with your parents unnecessarily. You might be interested to read the laws on stalking and harassment, though--here are a couple links:

the text of the actual laws, and a resource center for victims
http://www.ncvc.org/src/main.aspx?dbID=DB_Arkansas505

a very simplified version:
http://www.arkansasag.gov/crime_stalking_law.html 

a good explanation of what to do if you're a victim of stalking/harassment in Arkansas:
http://health.uark.edu/STAR Central...nt_InternetSafety/Stalking and Harassment.pdf

a FAQ page on Protective Orders in Arkansas:
http://www.womenslaw.org/AR/AR_how_to.htm


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## esther (Apr 15, 2006)

This is what I came up with:


_Due to the recent events and the ongoing struggle that exists between us you are forbidden access to the following:_

List the property and shop and the approaches to these places, giving addresses and property boundaries
List your in-laws and their property, etc.
Include your children's schools

_Access is also forbidden to these locations when the children are present. _ 
List the places where you children have extra-curriclular activities such as soft ball or dance. 
If you attend a different church than these people (sorry--just can't call them "parents") you might want to include that address, too. 

_No physical or electronic contact shall be made or attempted to be made by (give their names) or their agents to the parties mentioned below:_
List every single adult, child, or pet that needs to be kept away from them.

_If you violate any of the afore-mentioned restrictions, further legal action will be set in motion immediately._

Sign you names.

Send it registered mail with a return receipt. You will have to go down to the post office to do this and it might cost a couple of bucks, but they have to sign for it and you will receive a notification that they got it.

I haven't posted on this, but I have read every word. I can understand what you are going through and it is very, very hard to throw off a lifetime of manipulation and abuse. The one thing that an abusive person fears the most is that their victim will one day realize that they don't have to take it anymore. You have gone past that point.
You have my admiration.


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## dashley (Jan 23, 2005)

barnyardfun said:


> OH NOW COME ON!  Someone has to translate all of this into legalese for me! PLEASE! Anyone?? :help:
> 
> I do like the idea of adding them not having any contact with us even if they see us in public.
> 
> ...


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## Shepherd (Jan 23, 2005)

Boy, 1 day away from the forum and it takes a long time to catch up on everything! First in regard to your mom's email:

_Shawnna, I am not sure what must be going through your mind, but I feel you are very confused and must be deceived for you to treat your parents the way you are. If you feel that you are in the right then why won't you face us and tell us?..._ 
She feels you must be very confused huh? It's understandable you'd be confused after being raised in a home where 'fondling', etc. is practiced by the father figure and allowed by the mother! A child would not comprehend this is necessarily so wrong if their mother is aware of it and allowing it. It's all the child knows. 

Why won't you talk to them or confront them? Because you're disgusted and ashamed of them... not to mention furious! Is she daft? Has she lost her mind when she asks "What has made you give up on your parents?"?!? 

_Your dad and I pray for you ALL the time....we are so concerned about you._
They need to pray for themselves;.

_Thanks for returning the crockpot I never knew you were such a coward. I knew you had no back bone.. but people that really believe they are in the right will stand up for what they believe in and you never have. You get Greg on us and I will tell you now we won't give up until you face us. You want us out of your life then you stand up and tell us. We will not take it from Greg. Never!!!!!!_
A coward is the LAST thing you are. No backbone eh? I think you're showing tremendous bravery and backbone in this situation. Frankly I'm just thankful you didn't run over there with a shotgun when you first realized what was most likely going on.

_I came to you just wanting to see my daughter because I have missed you so much and you call Greg on me?????? Did I scare you? What did you think I was going to do? By the way you can tell Greg that I am not scared of him and I never will be scared of him!!! So his looks DO NOT intimidate me._
I'm sure it HAS been hard on them to have their lives turned upside down; it sure has been for YOU and the kids. 

And like Bink said, she was so unintimidated by Greg, she ran to the car and hightailed it out of there when he came up to the house! 

_We feel very sorry for you because we feel that you are trapped. Like I said before we will not give up until you tell us you want us out of your life. It will have to come from you in person._
You're not trapped anymore. You have 'seen the light'. If they can't get a clue that you don't want to have them around, they're pretty dense.

_We are trying to sell our house I am sure that took some the pressure off of you. I know Greg must be happy... _ 
They feel they should sell their house? That's best! 

Maybe once they're moved (if you're so lucky), they'll contemplate how they created such a horrible nightmare for everyone involved and take the responsibility of their own actions upon their shoulders. But not everyone's mature enough to do that. 

_Hope to hear from you soon_
Don't hold your breath!

_We will always love you Shawnna and we miss the kids so much....._
You may always love them too (in a way), but now your memories will be marred for the rest of your life for what you've finally realized has happened all those years, and knowing what they may have been doing to your own children. 

In fairness, I will say from what I understand - you're not 100% certain there was molestation of your children. But the facts indicate it's a distinct possibility, particularly in light of the things that you went thru growing up in their home... even though you didn't realize it until later after finding out those things aren't normal.

And if they were reasonable, loving family members, they would have been supportive & cooperative in the beginning of this ordeal. Their actions just don't seem to be the actions of someone like that. I could understand their frustration of being completely cut off from you for a long time but some things they've done since are way out of line - like cutting off your water... life sustaining water!

*****

If you don't want to see a counselor or therapist - that's fine. If you change your mind, you can always copy your entries from this thread into an email or letter and print it out for him/her to read so you don't have to go through it all again. Meanwhile you have a lot of family/friends here on this forum who only want the best for you and will provide moral support.

I think Esther helped you prepare a GREAT letter to send to them. Type it up carefully, have someone proofread it for grammar and spelling errors and send it registered mail with a return receipt requested. You want your letter to look as professional as possible, so start it:

Mr. & Mrs. XXX XXXXX <-------- your names
1234 5th Street <-------- your street address
Wherever, Arkansas XXXXX <-------- your city, state, zip

August XX, 2007 <-------- date you'll mail

Mr. & Mrs. XXX XXXXX <-------- your parents' names
1234 6th Street <-------- their street address
Wherever, Arkansas XXXXX <-------- their city, state, zip


Sent Registered, Return Receipt Requested

Mr. & Mrs. XXX XXXXX <-------- your parents' names

(insert the text Esther prepared for you)

Sincerely,


(Signature) <-------- your signature

XXX XXXXX <-------- your name

Copy To: Attorney's name (the attorney you spoke with - and send him a copy)


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## suzfromWi (Jun 1, 2002)

I must add here, that the letter from your mother is very much like living with an abuser. After awhile you start to believe that you might be wrong. You start to feel like the guilty one. Its all very stealthy, but it works. Its hard to keep your focus on the original abuse. You have to find away to NOT hear any more of it. You must not let them abuse your mind any further. I understand your sadness at leaving your love for your parents behind, but for your mental health and the safety of your children, you must move on. I for one am sorry beyond words that this has happened to disrupt your life so badly. Find a way to get your life back. Remember daily that your children are first and foremost. God Bless you and yours.


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## StoneFence (Feb 4, 2005)

Certified Mail/Return receipt requested. It'll cost about $5. The post office has the forms (they are green). You'll have tracking info for the letter accessible on-line. Registered mail is not necessary. It's extra expensive.

I work in a law office, although I'm just a clerical peon.


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## hisenthlay (Feb 23, 2005)

Ok, quick note here--BYF, the letter you started was good. Unfortunately, Esther's letter, while it might communicate more things that you wish to say, is not supported by law. You don't have the authority to forbid your parents access to public places where your children are, unless you have some sort of court order (described in the links I posted) requiring that your parents keep XX amount of distance away from you/kids at all times, or something to that effect. So here--a quick edit of your letter (with Shepherd's formatting): 



barnyardfun said:


> Mr. & Mrs. XXX XXXXX <-------- your names
> 1234 5th Street <-------- your street address
> Wherever, Arkansas XXXXX <-------- your city, state, zip
> 
> ...


Again--this isn't legal advice, since I'm not licensed to give you that, and it would be unethical for me to represent as such. This is just what I'd write if I'd gotten the advice from an attorney that you did.


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## A'sta at Hofstead (Sep 20, 2006)

hisenthlay said:


> Ok, quick note here--BYF, the letter you started was good. Unfortunately, Esther's letter, while it might communicate more things that you wish to say, is not supported by law. You don't have the authority to forbid your parents access to public places where your children are, unless you have some sort of court order (described in the links I posted) requiring that your parents keep XX amount of distance away from you/kids at all times, or something to that effect. So here--a quick edit of your letter (with Shepherd's formatting):
> 
> 
> 
> Again--this isn't legal advice, since I'm not licensed to give you that, and it would be unethical for me to represent as such. This is just what I'd write if I'd gotten the advice from an attorney that you did.


Great edit.

as far as the cc-ing, would you send a copy to the case worker?


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## Dente deLion (Nov 27, 2006)

I agree with hisenthlay. My only concern is that you would not be able to forbid access to the in-laws' property either, because you don't own it, but if your in-laws would also sign the letter I would think that would cover it. Or maybe they'd need to send a letter separately. But, like Stone Fence, I am a legal peon, not a lawyer.


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## Dente deLion (Nov 27, 2006)

A'sta at Hofstead said:


> Great edit.
> 
> as far as the cc-ing, would you send a copy to the case worker?


Shawnna can send a copy to the case worker for the file, but I don't think showing her as a cc on the letter is necessary or even desirable - especially since the case worker had to close the case. I wouldn't show any cc's at all, I don't think.


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## hisenthlay (Feb 23, 2005)

Right--it's true that BYF can't forbid people from entering the in-laws' property. For that reason, it might be better to add a signature line for them as well, instead of cc'ing them. I don't think it's really necessary, though--if they have told BYF that they agree with this policy, then there's nothing wrong with her putting their wishes down in writing to send to the parents, and cc-ing the in-laws so that everyone knows what was said, and that the in-laws are on board. Either way seems basically fine to me, but having the in-laws sign the letter would be a bit more "official".

As for cc-ing the caseworker, I don't really know. Do the parents already know the contact info of the caseworker? If so, then cc-ing her could be fine, because it would show the parents that this is "on file" and "official"--she seemed nice from what I remember, and if she received a copy, she might just tuck it in her file for future reference, or she might just throw it out--I don't know how all that works. If the parents _don't_ already know the caseworker's name, I'd probably _not_ cc her, since it would just give them another point of contact and allow them one more thing to try to mess with. I was also wondering if it might be reasonable to cc the local police department--probably overkill, and wouldn't really accomplish anything, but just a thought....


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## Bink (Apr 13, 2003)

hisenthlay said:


> Originally Posted by barnyardfun
> Mr. & Mrs. XXX XXXXX <-------- your names
> 1234 5th Street <-------- your street address
> Wherever, Arkansas XXXXX <-------- your city, state, zip
> ...


This looks good. You may also CC a copy to the kids' school.
You may or may not wish to sign this in front of a notary public, so your parents can't pretend to think your husband forged your signature.

You might also begin it with: This shall serve as written record that your presence on the following premises is expressly forbidden:--so that they can't claim you're being "gutless" by not doing it in person, you are doing it so that you have a *written record* of it instead of having to rely on a bunch of "he said, she said".

Would it be remiss to enclose a handwritten note stating that you are doing it this way so that there can be no mistake or misinterpretation of your wishes, and that if you are forced to speak to them face to face it will be in front of a judge? Or would that be considered threatening?


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## hisenthlay (Feb 23, 2005)

Bink, all that sounds good to me, except the kids are homeschooled (right?), so there's no school to notify. The additional handwritten note does not sound inappropriately threatening in any way to me, but you'd want to be sure it was something you were going to follow through on. If she says, "I'm ONLY going to talk to you in front of a judge" and then she decides it's too hard to face them in court, but she ends up getting stuck in a confrontation with them at the door, or the grocery store, or the phone, then it will look like she doesn't mean what she says, and the legal threats will be hollow and ineffective. I'd just keep it formal and somewhat vague, I think--she makes a threat she can and WILL follow through on (calling the cops for trespass), and makes a vague threat ("legal action") to try to ward off continuing contact. Ideally, in a way, she would have a lawyer, and could tell the parents to direct any further communication to the lawyer (a hired gun who won't get caught up in the emotion of it like BYF, husband, in-laws). But it's probably not necessary, at least not yet.


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## barnyardfun (Mar 26, 2005)

Keep talking! You guys are doing great!

I don't think that my inlaws would mind signing the letter if that was necessary, at this point they will do anything to help me. Even my sis-in-law is going thru the burden of unlocking a gate every time she has to live just so she knows I feel safer. What can I say....they are a pretty good family. At least I have one good family!  

My kids don't go to school, we homeschool, so that shouldn't be a problem. Well....I did forget that my DS will be going to Thursday Bible School every week here soon. But they have to be signed in and out there so I will make sure they know who can and can't pick him up. I know that my DD would not go with them willingly because we have talked about it often, but I don't think DS would remember. 

I think I will try working on the letter later today, if you have any more ideas let me know! THANK YOU ALL SO MUCH! YOU THE GREATEST!


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## Bink (Apr 13, 2003)

hisenthlay said:


> If she says, "I'm ONLY going to talk to you in front of a judge" and then she decides it's too hard to face them in court, but she ends up getting stuck in a confrontation with them at the door, or the grocery store, or the phone, then it will look like she doesn't mean what she says, and the legal threats will be hollow and ineffective. I'd just keep it formal and somewhat vague, I think


Good points.


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## Dente deLion (Nov 27, 2006)

hisenthlay said:


> I'd just keep it formal and somewhat vague, I think--she makes a threat she can and WILL follow through on (calling the cops for trespass), and makes a vague threat ("legal action") to try to ward off continuing contact.


Yes. I'd stick with the formal letter only, no handwritten extras. Everything that needs to be said is included in the formal letter. Best not to give a single word of extra information at this point, methinks. Anything beyond what is absolutely necessary can become a door to pry open.


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## MarleneS (Aug 21, 2003)

Bink said:


> Marlene, this doesn't pertain to BYF, but I don't understand how you figure that confronting someone in court is somehow NOT confronting them.
> 
> I faced down my ex-bf in court, and I can_ assure_ you it _was_ a confrontation and that it took a great deal of courage to do so, especially since he'd often promised me he'd kill me if I ever called the cops on him.
> 
> I also confronted him alone, one on one and told him in no uncertain terms to LEAVE ME ALONE. While that may have been satisfying and cathartic, it did absolutely no practical good; he certainly didn't say, "Oh. I had no idea you felt that way. Guess I'll just scurry along". I had much better luck with the court system.



Okay, I'll take the blame for my point not being made clear. 1.) I did not say NOT to take her parents to court. 2.) I never ever suggested that Shawnna confront her parents alone - I, infact, advised her not to do it alone.
3.) The letter from her mother supports my thoughts that until she proves her parents WRONG she will continue to believe the things they say about her - NOT a healthy way to live. 4.) Replacing the decision making from being in her parents hands to being in her husband hands is certainly better in the sense that her husband cares more about her well being, but it's only going to keep her dependent upon someone else, also not a good mental health thing. 5.) The advise was for Shawnna to START preparing herself for being able to stand up for her self by standing up to her parents and giving them honest answers to the questions dumped on her in the letter - WHEN SHE IS READY she will know it - as someone else (Annie?) voiced.

As much as we all care about her, enabling her not to stand on her own two feel is just that enabling her not to heal.

Practicing what I preach,
Marlene


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## barnyardfun (Mar 26, 2005)

You know the more and more I think about this the crazier it seems! Someone having to send their own parents a letter informing them to leave them alone! CRAZY!  That is just not something a child should have to do! :grump:


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## Dente deLion (Nov 27, 2006)

barnyardfun said:


> You know the more and more I think about this the crazier it seems! Someone having to send their own parents a letter informing them to leave them alone! CRAZY!  That is just not something a child should have to do! :grump:


You're absolutely right. But it's wonderful that you realize it must be done, so that your children don't have to send it to their grandparents one day.


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## nduetime (Dec 15, 2005)

BYF, I have not said anything until now because everyone on this board has given you such wonder ful support and advice. It also hits too close to home for me, I guess.

I do urge you to send out that certified letter and if possible for you to do, get a restraining order against them.

My natural Father never stopped haunting me, never. Everytime I ever ran into him in a publeic place he did his utmost to either scare me or make me as uncomfortable as possible.

Even years later (Nearly 30), when I tried to open a door of communication, he just responded with a "what do you mean we should try to talk? What could we have to possibly talk about?" I gave up any pretense then and there of having him as any part of my life, including nightmares.

I did not see my father of my own free will from the time I was 12 until now. He stalked me, told me numerous times he would kill me for telling, called and made threatening phone calls, showed up banging on doors after long hospital stays and I could not even walk, etc etc. He would tell my Mother "what did I scare her?" That part of your Mother's letter really bothered me.

The very worst part of all this is that he never, never paid any price for his crimes and did commit them again with other family members on his side and they were afraid to do anything too. My mother knew this behavior/disease whatever ran in his family and did nothing to protect me from it. They ( my mother and her attys. chose not to prosecute him as they "believed" it would be harder on me. I tell you now that to do this day i know I would have been better emotionally if he had had some penaly, some consequence, something to show that I was worth something and he took it away. I did not receive counseling over this either but have managed to have a good, decent, Christ centered life with a man who wants the same things.

Please do not short change yourself or your daughter on any counts. If your mother is in denial and he has no panalties to pay for his behavior he *will* strike again.

I hope that I have not opened myself up too much here and that others can understand why I am saying the things I am. You are so much stronger and braver than I ever was. I applaud you and your husband for doing the right things. I have never told anyone these secrets as far as my friends go and certainly never on a forum, sometimes you have to put everything out there to have it washed away. God Bless.


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## Bink (Apr 13, 2003)

MarleneS said:


> As much as we all care about her, enabling her not to stand on her own two feel is just that enabling her not to heal.


I don't see where anyone is doing that.


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## Bink (Apr 13, 2003)

barnyardfun said:


> You know the more and more I think about this the crazier it seems! Someone having to send their own parents a letter informing them to leave them alone! CRAZY!  That is just not something a child should have to do! :grump:


You're right. Sometimes you have to do it for them to get the point, though. People are hardheaded.


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## Bink (Apr 13, 2003)

nduetime said:


> I hope that I have not opened myself up too much here and that others can understand why I am saying the things I am.


Yes. We're everywhere. Bless you.


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## Jan Doling (May 21, 2004)

Well, if we are going to be your counselors, your husband can defer to us if the âparents,â your siblings, or their friends continue making demands of you:

âSorry, that will have to be approved by the counselors.â

âThe counselors have decided against your request.â

âThe counselors do not agree that this would be in our best interest.â

You can blame anything on us and no one is the wiser about who these âcounselorsâ are!  :shrug:


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## barnyardfun (Mar 26, 2005)

Jan Doling said:


> Well, if we are going to be your counselors, your husband can defer to us if the âparents,â your siblings, or their friends continue making demands of you:
> 
> âSorry, that will have to be approved by the counselors.â
> 
> ...


  HA! I love it! That is a really good idea!  Now what else can I blame on you guys!? :angel:


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## barnyardfun (Mar 26, 2005)

Okay....here it is. I haven't printed it yet. Wanted to make sure I did everything right. I just copied and pasted here, so it is exactly how it will look except for the personal info  

August 30, 2007


XXXX and XXXX XXXX
16X2X XXXXXXXX XXXX Road
LXXXXXX, Arkansas XXXXX



Mr. and Mrs. XXXX and XXXX XXXX,


This letter is to notify you that your presence on the following premises is expressly forbidden:

XXXXX XXXXXX XXXX Road
XXXXXXX, Arkansas XXXXX

and

XXXXX XXXXXXXX XXXX Road
XXXXXXX, Arkansas XXXXX
(includes but not limited to living residense and place of business)

You presence on any of these properties will be deemed trespass, and the police will be notified immediately, subjecting you to possible arrest and criminal penalties.

Furthermore, any and all communication of any kind with XXXX XXXXXXXX, XXXXXXX XXXXXXXX, XXXXXXXX XXXXXXXX, and XXXX XXXXXXXX is unwelcome and will be considered harassment. Continued attempts to contact these individuals will lead to legal action against you.


Sincerely,



XXXX XXXXXXXX



XXXXXXX XXXXXXXX


XXXX and XXXXXXX XXXXXXXX
XXXXX XXXXXX XXXX Road
XXXXXXX, Arkansas XXXXX


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## barnyardfun (Mar 26, 2005)

Hehe! Sorry, I just had to comment on the fact that I see that my post had been viewed more times then the RULES sticky!  

I am in a much better mood today then I have been in awhile (helps when you can sleep at night). Yesterday was good, today is better. Wonder what tomorrow will bring?


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## Bink (Apr 13, 2003)

Looks good to me. We'll see what the rest of the counselors have to say.


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## Bink (Apr 13, 2003)

barnyardfun said:


> Hehe! Sorry, I just had to comment on the fact that I see that my post had been viewed more times then the RULES sticky!


Well, it's an interesting, ongoing story. Plus you're _doing_ things about it. 




> I am in a much better mood today then I have been in awhile (helps when you can sleep at night). Yesterday was good, today is better. Wonder what tomorrow will bring?


It helps a lot when you have recourse, doesn't it? You're not just stuck taking whatever anyone dishes out, there are things you can do.


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## Tricky Grama (Oct 7, 2006)

Jan Doling said:


> Well, if we are going to be your counselors, your husband can defer to us if the âparents,â your siblings, or their friends continue making demands of you:
> 
> âSorry, that will have to be approved by the counselors.â
> 
> ...


That's just genius!!

Oh, BTW, BYF-change 'tresspass' to 'tresspassing' in the letter.

Patty


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## turtlehead (Jul 22, 2005)

Dente deLion said:


> ... but I do *NOT* recommend deleting the emails!! What better evidence could you ask for than their own words?


Excellent point! Auto-forward them to your DH and then auto-delete, or auto-file them in a folder you never open.

Regarding your letter, BYF, it should be "Your presence..." not "You presence..." I know, just a typo, but still.

Looking good, counselors!


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## barnyardfun (Mar 26, 2005)

turtlehead said:


> Excellent point! Auto-forward them to your DH and then auto-delete, or auto-file them in a folder you never open.
> 
> Regarding your letter, BYF, it should be "Your presence..." not "You presence..." I know, just a typo, but still.
> 
> Looking good, counselors!


Funny how when reading your brain can see a word and assumes what it is! I have read that letter several times and always read 'your'!  

THANK YOU!


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## PBPitcher (Aug 15, 2005)

BYF - minor typo in residence - just change the "s" to a "c"


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## hisenthlay (Feb 23, 2005)

barnyardfun said:


> This letter is to notify you that your presence on the following premises is expressly forbidden:
> 
> XXXXX XXXXXX XXXX Road
> XXXXXXX, Arkansas XXXXX
> ...


I just changed a couple typos there in caps/red--hopefully that shows up. I think it looks great.  Oh, and do all those xxxxxxx's at the bottom mean that you're having one of the in-laws sign the letter too? I think that's what you mean, and I think that's a good idea--but just checking. 

btw... "trespass" is correct spelling and grammar as it's used there, no need to change :angel:

Oops--looks like we were posting our typo comments at the same time!


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## barnyardfun (Mar 26, 2005)

All the XXX's at the bottom are DH's and my name and our address. 

I haven't discussed having the inlaws sign with DH yet. I think I will just let it go like it is. DH is their son and he does work there, he spends more time there then here, so I would think he has some say. And besides that, I don't think my parents are legal minded enough to figure out a way around that. But I have been wrong before.


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## Dente deLion (Nov 27, 2006)

Let 'er rip! The counselors have spoken!


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## hisenthlay (Feb 23, 2005)

BYF, I think that's fine because, like you say, this is more to get the point across to your parents than anything else, and they probably won't pick up on that. Just FYI, though, if your DH doesn't have an ownership in his parents' house, he doesn't have authority to say who is and isn't allowed on the property. For instance, he couldn't write a letter to his mom's dearest old friend and tell her not to set foot on his parents' land--right? Only his mom and dad get to decide whether mom's best friend is allowed on the property. Same here. The difference here is that DH's parents ALSO don't want your parents on their property, so you are expressing their wishes in your letter, not just your wishes. So I don't think they have to sign it, or even be cc'd on it if you don't want--but it would probably be a good idea to at least tell them you're sending it and what it says--at the very least so that they are on board and know that they should call the cops if they see your parents snooping around their place. It's not a big deal, but I think it would make the letter more effective if your in-laws had that info, so you could all stand together in it.


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## barnyardfun (Mar 26, 2005)

Oh the inlaws will know. They are kept up to date with everything we have going on. They have been a great support system. 

Just thought I would tell you all....I had called my brother yesterday because I needed to get his address to mail him a card for his wedding. Well he said that he was sorry I missed church on Sunday night and I should have been there because he got to preach a little (he feels his calling is to be a preacher). Told him sorry that our well had a little trouble and we were trying to fix it so we missed church (a toilet hung open and drained the well!  That was a good thing though! It filled up again and it was higher then it has ever been!  ) Anyway, he then preceded to tell me that my mom and dad had been there to see him preach. And then he had to get off the phone so he could call my mom for some vacation reservation thing. I WON'T BE TALKING TO HIM AGAIN! YIKES! DH said he is completely convinced that we are in the right and that God kept us from having to go thru an encounter with them. DH's parents very very rarely ever miss church and they didn't go Sunday night either because DH's mom said she just didn't feel like going (which is very odd) and DH's dad was helping us with our well! Close call! I find it really hard to believe that they wouldn't have caused a scene. 

Now I am really leery about going back to church! :Bawling:


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## Bink (Apr 13, 2003)

barnyardfun said:


> Now I am really leery about going back to church! :Bawling:


You can find a different church. God won't change.


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## patnewmex (Aug 11, 2006)

Bink said:


> You can find a different church. God won't change.


The counselors HAVE SPOKEN!


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## Bernadette (Jan 17, 2004)

barnyardfun said:


> Just thought I would tell you all....I had called my brother yesterday because I needed to get his address to mail him a card for his wedding......... I WON'T BE TALKING TO HIM AGAIN! YIKES!


Did you not say that this brother is marrying someone with small children? You *have* to talk to him. He might not listen. But at least after something happens (and it will) he will not be able to say "why didn't you tell me... why didn't you say something". How, when, where - don't know. But watch for the opportunity - it will present itself - and don't let it go past. If the brother doesn't want to listen, you may even have to approach the bride and advise her to keep her eyes open and her head up. 

They may or may not take your advise. But you'll have done your part.


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## Bink (Apr 13, 2003)

Bernadette said:


> you may even have to approach the bride and advise her to keep her eyes open and her head up.
> 
> They may or may not take your advise. But you'll have done your part.


That may be the better idea. She won't have as much invested in believing stepdad.


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## Ann-NWIowa (Sep 28, 2002)

The only thing I would add to your letter is a cc: to the Local Sheriff. I have a friend who recently had to do this letter thing with her s-i-l and she sent a copy to the local police department. The police kindly told s-i-l (who they don't like anyway) that if he went on her property he would be arrested. He's allowed to drive in the driveway to pick up or drop the children but not allowed to get out of the vehicle.


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## dashley (Jan 23, 2005)

BYF, WOW, I love seeing you doing so well!! I feel alot better for you. Keeping your mind busy helps doesn't it!!


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## Hears The Water (Aug 2, 2002)

Bernadette said:


> Did you not say that this brother is marrying someone with small children? You *have* to talk to him. He might not listen. But at least after something happens (and it will) he will not be able to say "why didn't you tell me... why didn't you say something". How, when, where - don't know. But watch for the opportunity - it will present itself - and don't let it go past. If the brother doesn't want to listen, you may even have to approach the bride and advise her to keep her eyes open and her head up.
> 
> They may or may not take your advise. But you'll have done your part.


Actually BYF, from what you have said, you should probably consider telling your brother's fiancee rather than him. Didn't you tell him already and he doesn't believe you? She might pay more attention to you. It might stir up a hornets nest, but those children need to be protected too. Just a thought. 
God bless you and yours
Deb


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## tallpines (Apr 9, 2003)

I just want to say how very proud I am to be part of a forum with such a fine bunch of people.

All of you "counselors" are the best.

BYF----stay strong.
Isn't it terrific how God gets His messages through to us?
He speaks to us all the time, in many ways.
I'm pleased to see you recognized your well problems and God's way of keeping you away from that church service.

nduetime--------------(((HUGS))) to you.
Sorry to hear of your past history------but thank you for sharing it here to help reassure BYF and give her strength.


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## Shepherd (Jan 23, 2005)

Good job on the letter. I only suggested CC'ing the Attorney because it would impact her parents a lot more when they saw that at the bottom of the letter. The Atty would only assume she sent it to verify she followed his advice. And to tell you the truth, I think I'd CC the Case Worker too, as well as the Sheriff. 

Marlene brought up a point that has been in the back of my mind too. She said _"Replacing the decision making from being in her parents hands to being in her husband hands is certainly better in the sense that her husband cares more about her well being, but it's only going to keep her dependent upon someone else, also not a good mental health thing. 5.) The advise was for Shawnna to START preparing herself for being able to stand up for her self...". _ 

BYF, it's been concerning me that you've admitted being so dependent upon your parents and now it appears you may have transferred that dependency to your DH. This is ok (temporarily) thru this traumatic time period, but I hope and pray you will continue to gain more strength and independence with each new day. It's only with loving concern that I mention this - as well as personal experience.

I'm SO thrilled with how well you're coping. It's obvious you're getting stronger and stronger!


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## dashley (Jan 23, 2005)

nduetime said:


> BYF, I have not said anything until now because everyone on this board has given you such wonder ful support and advice. It also hits too close to home for me, I guess.
> 
> I do urge you to send out that certified letter and if possible for you to do, get a restraining order against them.
> 
> ...



God Bless you!!

It is important for a Mother to stand up for her Child!! (or someone) If that person has no one to stand up and say this is wrong and shouldn't be happening the Child thinks they did something wrong or was not worth to much to anyone. Their self worth is threatened. I am so happy that you found a husband who cares for you and your life is good.


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## MarleneS (Aug 21, 2003)

Barnyardfun - the fact that the day that you completed your letter to your parents was a day that you felt good - well, even better then good, supports my idea that the more you do for yourself the better you will feel about yourself. 

You are long over do for that feeling good about life stuff --keep up the good work.

Blink, I'm very much aware that you and others who are so very supportive and protective of Shawnna do not see it as enabling her to not continue in grown and self-confidence. As I have mentioned I know ya'll have the very best intentions at heart.
All I asks is that you consider the long term along with your concerns with what is going on today.

Hugs,
Marlene


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## dashley (Jan 23, 2005)

MarleneS said:


> Barnyardfun - the fact that the day that you completed your letter to your parents was a day that you felt good - well, even better then good, supports my idea that the more you do for yourself the better you will feel about yourself.
> 
> You are long over do for that feeling good about life stuff --keep up the good work.
> 
> ...



I am sure you meant "Bink"


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## Bink (Apr 13, 2003)

MarleneS said:


> Blink, I'm very much aware that you and others who are so very supportive and protective of Shawnna do not see it as enabling her to not continue in grown and self-confidence. As I have mentioned I know ya'll have the very best intentions at heart.
> All I asks is that you consider the long term along with your concerns with what is going on today.


Well, yeah. One thing at a time. Does she have to heal and stand on her own two feet RIGHT NOW, this very instant? Jeez, it's been what-? A month and a half since she first posted? Some people take years to work through their stuff.

I see nothing wrong with the speed at which she's progressing. She's doing what she needs to keep her kids safe, and that's enough for the present. Don't overwhelm her with things she can get to later.

And yeah, I'm assuming you meant "Bink". However, if that was directed to someone named "Blink" then nevermind.


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## barnyardfun (Mar 26, 2005)

Well, the deed is done. The letter has been mailed. Certified mail with return receipt. I am sure I will find out that they received it in a different way then the return receipt!  I am sure they are going to be LIVID!

I am starting to feel a little better now. I have let the kids out to play more, which they greatly appreciate. And I uncovered my door window so we can see out again. I will still keep the others covered till it cools down, sure saves on electricity.

Anyway, that is all I have going on right now. Just trying to be normal, whatever that means. :shrug:


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## Bink (Apr 13, 2003)

barnyardfun said:


> Well, the deed is done. The letter has been mailed. Certified mail with return receipt. I am sure I will find out that they received it in a different way then the return receipt!  I am sure they are going to be LIVID!


Yeah, you'll probably hear their heads explode all the way over there. I'm betting you'll have to call the cops a couple times before they really "get it".

Kudos to you! You're staying on top of everything. I hope once they "get it" they leave you in peace for awhile.


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## dashley (Jan 23, 2005)

Kudos from here too! Good Job!


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## Jaclynne (May 14, 2002)

BYF - I know I haven't spoken up in this thread, though I've read every word. You are lucky to have this group of very caring 'counselors', some people carry their hurt for years with no one to talk to, and others are afraid to speak up ever. 

I remember when I was about 40 yrs old, I was with my sister in town when someone told us that a stepfather we'd had was dead. He'd died of snake bite complication - a nice slow demise after having leg amputated. My sister blurted out, "Well, it couldn't have happened to a more deserving person!"
I was shocked, all those years I had thought that nightmare was just mine.

It does you good to talk. Maybe you're not ready for counseling, maybe you never will be. I've never had counseling, I don't want to live it over again and I sure don't want to remember the parts that were mercifully blotted out, but it has been a great release to speak of it in general terms with my sisters.

I know I'm only a 'junior counselor' since this is my first post, but I did want to make a suggestion. I was concerned to read that when your mother came to the house you and the kids retreated to the bedroom to hide beneath the covers. I'm afraid that will teach your children that they aren't safe in their own home. I understand the reaction and instinct to hide, but it is more than you here. Your children need to know you will protect them and that they are safe. 

May I suggest if 'they' return have a plan. You may be shaking inside but get up, shut the drapes and turn the TV up loud. You may want to announce to the kids that 'they' (the mother,etc) aren't gonna make you afraid anymore - this is our house! Then just stick it out in that room till they leave. I think you will be surprised how empowering that little bit of defiance is to you and the kids. 

I just wanted you to know that I think you are doing great in a very bad situation.

As Bink said, "We're everywhere."
Halo


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## frazzlehead (Aug 23, 2005)

Hi BYF - got your PM, glad to be of help.  I'm sure that that part of 'normal' is having time to read good books, so you just go right ahead and do that!

I am so proud of you, and so pleased to be part of the caring community that is HT. I love the idea of us being "the counsellors" -you can hand off the negative consequences for any strong thing you feel the need to do! And strong is what you are ... you are doing fabulously.

Honoured to know you, yes, that's what I am. Very honoured. 

Good on ya, as the Aussie's say. Thanks for letting us share this journey with you. It's healing some of my own wounds - once, I wasn't able to help someone I loved as much as life itself ... but I can be here for you, now, and I know that counts.

You let us know what you need, we're here for ya!


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## dashley (Jan 23, 2005)

Hi BYF, How is it going, get any reaction from the letter?


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## barnyardfun (Mar 26, 2005)

Well, they just picked up the letter at the post office yesterday. I am still waiting for my delivery conformation so I don't know who signed for it. I would say my step dad did. Anyway, haven't heard any heads exploding or anything yet!  Kind of nervous today, don't know if they will test me to see if I will really back that letter up. I would really hate to call the cops over this but if they push me I will.

Isn't life just grand? It seems like when your down the devil just really likes to try to kick you as hard as he can. Nothing seems to be going right here lately. My stress level just get higher and higher. Had to go to the dentist yesterday because I was having some really bad tooth pain. Turns out I have been grinding and clenching my teeth more then usual and was putting a lot of stress on one tooth in particular. I have to go back next week and get fitted for a mouth guard to wear at night and in the day if I am clenching. (I have TMJ so that makes a lot of that worse!  ) More money I don't have to spend!

DH is going to a company this morning to see if we can refinance and get us out of some of the strain we are in. If we could get that accomplished it would sure make things look sunnier to me!

Thank you all for caring so much to keep up with me and how we are all doing. The kids are doing great. Resilient little boogars! DD starts her homeschool co op next week and will be taking gymnastics and holiday cooking and crafts. She is really excited. Now I have to get a calender out and teach her what a week is so she will quit asking how much longer!  

God Bless you all, and thank you from the bottom of my heart!


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## susieM (Apr 23, 2006)

Be very cautious about that refinancing right now. This could end up being dangerous.


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## barnyardfun (Mar 26, 2005)

susieM said:


> Be very cautious about that refinancing right now. This could end up being dangerous.


I don't understand what you mean.


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## susieM (Apr 23, 2006)

Right now, many, many people in the US are threatened (or have been) forclosed on because credit was too easy to get and then found they couldn't pay back their debts. This has become such a huge problem that other countries in the world are trying to help shore up the flood in order to keep America from going into an economic depression worse than the Great Depression of the nineteen twenties.

What the risk is is that the economy could take a dive and then jobs could be lost, making thngs even worse. Right now, it may be best to try to tighten belts and do without and pay off your bills in this manner, rather than taking out a line of credit...espesially a line of credit tied to your home.

That's about all I can say, as I don't know too much about it, other than what I have read. Perhaps someone else can add to this?


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## dashley (Jan 23, 2005)

They loan companies are alot harder to get a loan from right now. Even people with perfect credit are having a hard time getting a loan. The only thing I would be careful about is the company I went with. 

I am so glad to hear the Children are doing good BYF, you are such a good Mother, a real gift to your Children. I really admire you and your Husband for your strength!! 

You hang in there and please let us know how everything is going. You are our Child now and we care very much about you and your family!!


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## Bink (Apr 13, 2003)

barnyardfun said:


> I have to go back next week and get fitted for a mouth guard to wear at night and in the day if I am clenching. (I have TMJ so that makes a lot of that worse!  ) More money I don't have to spend!


Oh hey, wait--If you've got a Dick's or other athletic supply place, you can buy yourself a mouth guard for a couple bucks. You dunk it in hot water then bite down on it to form it to your teeth, then cut off the handle. Might as well go that way first before shelling out the big bucks. My dentist recommended it to me--he knew I didn't want to spend tons of money unless I had to.


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## Shepherd (Jan 23, 2005)

*Oh Bink's idea is great!* I'd highly recommend doing that before going to a big expense with the dentist. Also, try to catch yourself when you're clenching your jaws, and everytime you notice it - practice 'relaxing' your mouth and jaw. 

And I second the warning about using great caution with finance companies... this is not a good time to risk anything - particularly your home. Do whatever you can to further tighten the money belt.

Keep us posted on how you're doing and anything else that's going on. You're in our minds daily.


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## travlnusa (Dec 12, 2004)

Bink said:


> Oh hey, wait--If you've got a Dick's or other athletic supply place, you can buy yourself a mouth guard for a couple bucks. You dunk it in hot water then bite down on it to form it to your teeth, then cut off the handle. Might as well go that way first before shelling out the big bucks. My dentist recommended it to me--he knew I didn't want to spend tons of money unless I had to.


I do this very thing. I buy them for about $2 a piece, and they last me about 6-8 months, but I am very hard on them.


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## Ann-NWIowa (Sep 28, 2002)

You can buy the kits for protecting teeth at Walmart and Walgreens. I think they are around $9. I got a mouth piece from my dentist over ten years ago for $150. I'm sure the cost is much higher now, however, I've used it every night for 10 years and its still holding together...getting a bit thin tho!!

Whoever mentioned having a plan for if/when parents arrive on your property is a good idea. Just like a fire drill. Once you have a plan in place you will feel safer and going over and over it in your head will help you to react according to your "plan" rather than with blind panic. I'd practice fire drills with the kids and then "parents" drills so they will see each as an emergency to be responded to in a certain way. Of course, you never know if kids will follow or panic but at least you'd have tried.

Some of our teenaged foster children thought I was nuts giving them our fire drill the first day they were here. However, our windows are sliders rather than opening up/down so it was important they knew how to open them in case of fire. I also pointed out that they'd have to kick out the screen and then threatened them with dire results if they did so for anything less than a fire!

If you have absolutely no choice other than to refinance, be very careful who you go to. This really isn't a good time to go deeper in debt if you have any other option. I'd rather eat beans and rice every day, wear the same clothes for 2 years, cancel cable and Internet, etc. than go into debt right now (well anytime actually!).


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## barnyardfun (Mar 26, 2005)

My dentist is a friend of the family and probably the most it is going to cost me is $60. When I went on Tuesday they didn't charge me anything. :dance: 

I am not going to go deeper in debt.....I am just consolodating all of our debt. Right now the way it is set up the new loan will cut our payments by $1000 a month. That will help tremedously. When we are better on our feet we will pay as much as we can scrap together every month and get it paid off early.


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## Ann-NWIowa (Sep 28, 2002)

The danger with consolidation loans is that if you haven't solved the budget issues that lead to the debt you'll run up the debt again. I see a lot of bankruptcy clients who have done this. Consolidation works if you've conquered the underlying problems and made a budget based on LESS than your income that you know you can live with. In fact experts recommend that you live on that budget for six months to be sure its going to work before going with consolidation. Of course, that's not always possible if the pressure of debt is overwhelming your current income.


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## dashley (Jan 23, 2005)

BYF has proven she and her husband can stand on their own two feet. I think she made an innocent statement about what they were doing and wasn't asking for advice about it.

JMO


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## js2743 (Dec 4, 2006)

whats the news lately, have you heard from your parents since they got the letter?


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## BAmaBubba (May 10, 2007)

Hey Shawna, any new news??? hope things are going well for you and your family.


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