# Living Keto - what works for you?



## painterswife

I thought a thread about living Keto and what works for you would be a nice topic.


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## painterswife

For me if I need to add fat to meet my daily ratios I have some bacon or some cream cheese. I already eat fatty meat  and add butter to my vegs quiet often.


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## newfieannie

I eat very little meat so I have to find a way to get the fat. I do more or less the same. I do eat fish every day but it's haddock and not fatty. all we have around here in salmon is farmed (with the exception of canned)and I don't eat farmed fish. I fry it in avocado oil. and I eat 1/2 avocado every morning. it's supposed to be high in good fat. i also drizzle some A oil on my greens etc. I do eat a little bacon and also cream cheese. ~Georgia


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## painterswife

I eat lots of salmon. We buy cases from Zaycon. It is a service here that we order our meant from. Not farmed. It is a big bill for us in the fall but worth every penny. We buy 50 pounds at a time.


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## Alice In TX/MO

I simply stopped eating high carb foods. I cook with avocado oil and real butter. 

Today, at the VA clinic, the nurse that we talk to about the keto way of eating, told me about a different keto website that ai am going to look into. They are less extreme than some that get hostile is you mentiion that you use store bought grated cheese, which has a dusting of corn starch to prevent clumps. 

I am thinking about taking a nutrition course of study.


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## painterswife

As with every way of eating there are those that are militant.  I don't buy grass fed or Kerrygold.


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## Oregon1986

Thank you for starting this. My key to continuing to lose weight seems to be adding fats via oils and butters to my meats and vegetables.


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## painterswife

I also need to have premade easy to grab keto foods. Sausages, scotch eggs, chicken salad made with homemade mayo.


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## Oregon1986

painterswife said:


> I also need to have premade easy to grab keto foods. Sausages, scotch eggs, chicken salad made with homemade mayo.


I'm the same way,need foods to grab in a hurry


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## Oregon1986

Alice In TX/MO said:


> I simply stopped eating high carb foods. I cook with avocado oil and real butter.
> 
> Today, at the VA clinic, the nurse that we talk to about the keto way of eating, told me about a different keto website that ai am going to look into. They are less extreme than some that get hostile is you mentiion that you use store bought grated cheese, which has a dusting of corn starch to prevent clumps.
> 
> I am thinking about taking a nutrition course of study.


Interesting,I had no idea about the corn starch


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## roadless

I'm doing well on my food plan but still miss sugar in my coffee.
I bought pure brand organic stevia...it is awful and was expensive  ...the during and aftertaste is gross.
What, if any, sweetener do you folks use?


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## barnbilder

Vitacost Stevia extract in the dropper bottle is good. f you are getting a biter taste cut way back. This is true for just about any non sugar sweetener, they are pretty powerful, very possible to go right past sweet and into mediciney flavor. NuNaturals Nustevia Cocoa syrup is the greatest stuff ever, eat it on pancakes, put it on your ice cream, or in your coffee. Erythritol is pretty good if you want a straight up artificial sweetener. I don't do keto, I am a flex dieter, here lately my coffee gets some GNC AMP Wheybolic in classic vannilla and a little water to cool it down, and it is better than any coffee I can remember. Some people don't do sugar and turn around and put milk in it, but milk has a lot of carbs without adding sugar.


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## HermitJohn

You might try teaspoon of butter or coconut oil in your coffee. If you are more trying to mask taste few drops of peppermint extract on top of that.

Far as no calorie sweetners, blech, and they may not be very good for your body either.

Personally i always preferred my coffee black. Only time I added cream/sugar was if eating out and got served the nasty 30wt motor oil kind of coffee at some diner. Even then discovered the trick of like six granuals of salt that take bitterness out of crap coffee. doesnt make it good coffee, but makes it less bitter and more drinkable. Trick is to not add more than that or it becomes salty and undrinkable.


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## roadless

I do the salt thing, yep it helps.
I certainly went overboard on sugar before changing up my eating...it's amazing that I don't miss it at all...except my all important coffee!


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## barnbilder

There is not much evidence that all artificial sweeteners are bad. Especially if you don't goof up and try to use it at equivalent volumes to sugar. (Which is the only reason that you should get the idea that any of it tastes anything but sweet.

As for adding butter, keep in mind that adding a teaspoon of butter will add more than twice the calories than found in a teaspoon of sugar.


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## Terri

barnbilder said:


> As for adding butter, keep in mind that adding a teaspoon of butter will add more than twice the calories than found in a teaspoon of sugar.


Because the keto diet is working for them, I do not think that they care. *WE* care, because we are using a mixed diet approach, but I do not think that they do.


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## painterswife

I have cut back to only having coffee on the weekend because I like my sugar in it. I roast my own beans so coffee for me is very special. I use whipping cream instead of milk to get my fat. I often use erythriol mixed with splenda for a sugar substitute.


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## roadless

Could you folks give a typical day of eating menu?
I am interested in learning more.
Thanks!

Btw, Painterswife...I am impressed, no way could nor want to limit my morning coffee, I couldn't function!


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## HermitJohn

roadless said:


> I do the salt thing, yep it helps.
> I certainly went overboard on sugar before changing up my eating...it's amazing that I don't miss it at all...except my all important coffee!


Depending how much coffee you drink you might just figure in total daily carb load that bit of sugar. And reduce carbs elsewhere. I think bit real sugar or honey better than bunch of the ersatz fake stuff. Especially if you are just using it in your coffee and not elsewhere. 

Suggest again the peppermint extract, might give bit of illusion of sweetness. I dont think they have spearmint extract, but you could throw in bit spearmint tea when brewing your coffee. Thinking about it I had some kind of blended tea that didnt have mint or artificial sweetner, but gave illusion of sweetness. I might still have some in back of cupboard, Got it at some scratch and dent grocery place long ago, they had ton of it and had it at giveaway price to try and reduce inventory. No idea why it didnt sell, was pretty good.


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## roadless

I have some awesome flavored tea, that I drink without missing sugar at all, peppermint is my favorite. I tried just drinking tea instead but was rather grouchy.


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## painterswife

This morning I just had sausages and eggs. Coffee with cream and sugar before that. Dinner will be Salmon marinated in olive oil and soy sauce baked on a cedar plank with asparagus.

I eat salad often. Mostly green veggies but cauliflower is another staple. Fathead pizza quite often.


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## roadless

Thanks, sounds yummy.
What is Fathead pizza?


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## HermitJohn

barnbilder said:


> As for adding butter, keep in mind that adding a teaspoon of butter will add more than twice the calories than found in a teaspoon of sugar.


Drink a shot glass of olive oil. Do you want another?
Drink a shot glass of soda pop or fruit juice. Do you want another?
Have a handful of pork rinds. Do you want more?
Have a handful of potato chips. Do you want more?

Fat satiates you much quicker than carbs. Also debate on how some carbs affect your thyroid to slow your metabolism. But as we keep telling you, it works for us. Who you are trying to convince, I have no idea. Maybe just trying to rationalize your own diet and all the work it requires counting calories and feeling deprived and such. I lost 50 pound increasing fat and cutting out carbs WITHOUT counting calories. Tell me again why I should eat more carbs and why my low carb diet isnt working?


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## painterswife

roadless said:


> Thanks, sounds yummy.
> What is Fathead pizza?


https://www.ditchthecarbs.com/fat-head-pizza/

The crust is made using almond flour and cheese. Very tasty, very filling and low carb. I use to make yeast pizza dough from scratch. Always had a carb hangover ater. My husband the skinny tall man, much prefers this.


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## roadless

Awesome , thanks Painterswife.
Just 'pinned it and will be making soon.


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## painterswife

roadless said:


> Awesome , thanks Painterswife.


I make one of these for dinner. Mine ends up with 8 pieces because we make the crust thin. Very seldom do we eat more than 2/3's between the two of us. It does not need much sauce. I make mine from some tomatoes cooked down.


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## Oregon1986

Example menu:
Breakfast yesterday: 3 pieces of bacon,2 eggs cooked in bacon grease, 1 cup spinach cooked in coconut oil
Snack:hard boiled egg
Lunch: 2 beef patties cooked in coconut oil with cheddar on top
Dinner: 2 cups leafy vegetables, 1 chicken thigh and 1 cup cooked kale


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## newfieannie

HermitJohn said:


> You might try teaspoon of butter or coconut oil in your coffee. If you are more trying to mask taste few drops of peppermint extract on top of that.
> 
> Far as no calorie sweetners, blech, and they may not be very good for your body either.
> 
> Personally i always preferred my coffee black. Only time I added cream/sugar was if eating out and got served the nasty 30wt motor oil kind of coffee at some diner. Even then discovered the trick of like six granuals of salt that take bitterness out of crap coffee. doesnt make it good coffee, but makes it less bitter and more drinkable. Trick is to not add more than that or it becomes salty and undrinkable.


I never thought of adding butter to the coffee HJ but I will try it. I also always have peppermint on hand. I don't think those sweeteners are good for us either. they gave me a headache and I stopped them. no headache.

other than that I'm doing very well with the Keto Plan. (like you mentioned back there somewhere. fillup with veggies first) which is what I do.mostly greens.I'm attending some luncheons this week and I searched through my stash and found 4 pr. dress pants that I couldn't get into but that fit me perfectly now although I wasn't doing this to lose weight just to try to keep diabetes at bay~Georgia


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## barnbilder

HermitJohn said:


> Drink a shot glass of olive oil. Do you want another?
> Drink a shot glass of soda pop or fruit juice. Do you want another?
> Have a handful of pork rinds. Do you want more?
> Have a handful of potato chips. Do you want more?
> 
> Fat satiates you much quicker than carbs. Also debate on how some carbs affect your thyroid to slow your metabolism. But as we keep telling you, it works for us. Who you are trying to convince, I have no idea. Maybe just trying to rationalize your own diet and all the work it requires counting calories and feeling deprived and such. I lost 50 pound increasing fat and cutting out carbs WITHOUT counting calories. Tell me again why I should eat more carbs and why my low carb diet isnt working?



Of course fat is more satiating. It ought to be. It is over twice as calorically dense as carbohydrates in terms of dry matter weight. Most carbohydrates in their edible form come bundled with water. (This is one of the reasons people erroneously decide that keto works for them as they lose a lot of water weight when cutting carbs.) Not so with fats as oil and water do not mix well.

In the US a shot glass is one ounce by most reckoning. So to use an actual unit of measure, 1 ounce of olive oil has 251 calories. 12 ounces of regular Dr. Pepper has around 150 calories. Olive oil would be more satiating, possibly, (I find it disgusting), but definitely no where near as filling. If, like me, you aren't scared of artificial sweetener boogey men, you can actually drink diet soda, that has zero calories, is filling, and thanks to caffeine, is very satisfying. Soft drinks and juices are poor examples of carbs though, you could do a lot better, and maybe get some protein and some fiber. Favas are a lot more satiating than a soft drink and much more palatable than a shot glass of olive oil.


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## painterswife

This is a thread about what works for you with keto. I would appreciate if you start your own thread about your criticisms about keto.


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## barnbilder

Hey, just trying to point out reality and science, but since keto is more of a belief system than anything based in science and fact, please excuse me. If keto works for you regarding weight loss, it is because you are creating a caloric deficit. Substituting butter for sugar in coffee is not a good strategy in this regard.


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## painterswife

barnbilder said:


> Hey, just trying to point out reality and science, but since keto is more of a belief system than anything based in science and fact, please excuse me. If keto works for you regarding weight loss, it is because you are creating a caloric deficit. Substituting butter for sugar in coffee is not a good strategy in this regard.


Please get your own thread. I am asking nicely


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## alida

for Roadless: coffee - If you like flavored coffee - I started adding a bit of cinnamon and cocoa powder to mine when I started reducing sugar in mine. That did the trick for me. 

A typical day of food for me (today):

two eggs scrambled with 1 cup of chopped veggies for breakfast

cucumber/red pepper/mango salad with lemon juice for a dressing, plus salmon for lunch

"keto egg roll in a bowl" for dinner. I'm not following keto particularly,just like the recipe very much

snack: half a apple and a piece of cheese or something like 10 walnut halves. 

I'm following a lower carb diet, with a goal of eating plenty of vegetables and some fruit each day with protein,good fats,nuts and some cheese and plain yogurt. I do eat some grains every other day or so,in small portions like 1/2 cup steel cut oats, or 1/3 cup bean salad,even 1/2 cup cooked whole wheat pasta - but not white breads - which give me hiccups! I'm doing this with the approval and encouragement of my GP and lost 25 lbs this year,plus improved my energy significantly.

At the end of the day what I've really done is moderate my diet significantly to eliminate many sodium heavy foods and white flour type carbs (which was harder for me to do than eliminate sugar), and add vegetables to my meals whenever possible. I'm not always successful doing this, but I am trying. (Ice cream season is going to be hard for me)
I find everyones stories about low carb life very encouraging and helpful.


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## roadless

Great tip, aldia!
I am still experimenting as to what work, I do know low carb is the way for me.
I did Whole 30 and felt great, lost a few lbs and have way more energy. 
I am slowly adding formerly omitted foods to see how my body responds. 
The first was dairy, with no problems.
Next will be legumes, which I missed.
I am thoroughly enjoying and benefiting from the others on this thread.
Thank you all!


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## HeavyHauler

I get my carbs from homemade wine, beer and mead.

A glass a day.


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## HeavyHauler

I have type 1 diabetes, and the wife and I decided to go to Keto. Well a lower carb diet for sure, I have always eaten mostly meats and veggies, some fruit and cheese, also nuts.

My wife is a big pasta and bread fan, but she seems to prefer the Keto diet.

I eat bacon and eggs everyday. Life is great.


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## newfieannie

I got up at 6am. had 1 cup coffee with 2 T heavy cream, 1/2 avocado mashed with a little cottage cheese. went outside and worked in the garden for several hours. hard digging and whatnot. came in at lunchtime and ate the other 1/2 avocado mixed with a little cottage cheese,hemp hearts, chia seed.couple tsp.ground pecans and some flax meal. 2 cups tea.(I usually only have 1/2 avocado a day but this was a heavy work day. at 6pm I had some of the roast I made last night with swiss chard,brocolli and a small carott. made the gravy with drippings,sour cream and heavy cream. in a bit i'll have a small dish blueberries with a little cottage cheese. ~Georgia


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## HermitJohn

newfieannie said:


> I got up at 6am. had 1 cup coffee with 2 T heavy cream, 1/2 avocado mashed with a little cottage cheese. went outside and worked in the garden for several hours. hard digging and whatnot. came in at lunchtime and ate the other 1/2 avocado mixed with a little cottage cheese,hemp hearts, chia seed.couple tsp.ground pecans and some flax meal. 2 cups tea.(I usually only have 1/2 avocado a day but this was a heavy work day. at 6pm I had some of the roast I made last night with swiss chard,brocolli and a small carott. made the gravy with drippings,sour cream and heavy cream. in a bit i'll have a small dish blueberries with a little cottage cheese. ~Georgia


I doubt you eat enough of it to matter, but might take gander at cottage cheese label. Some have long page starchy fillers, preservatives, etc in ingredient list, some are milk and bit salt.

"Better living through chemistry" should be more accurately described as "more profits through chemistry"....


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## newfieannie

whoa! I never thought to check it. you are correct as always. out goes the cottage cheese! and yes indeed very expensive for just a small container. Thanks! ~Georgia


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## HermitJohn

barnbilder said:


> Of course fat is more satiating. It ought to be. It is over twice as calorically dense as carbohydrates in terms of dry matter weight. Most carbohydrates in their edible form come bundled with water. (This is one of the reasons people erroneously decide that keto works for them as they lose a lot of water weight when cutting carbs.) Not so with fats as oil and water do not mix well.
> 
> In the US a shot glass is one ounce by most reckoning. So to use an actual unit of measure, 1 ounce of olive oil has 251 calories. 12 ounces of regular Dr. Pepper has around 150 calories. Olive oil would be more satiating, possibly, (I find it disgusting), but definitely no where near as filling. If, like me, you aren't scared of artificial sweetener boogey men, you can actually drink diet soda, that has zero calories, is filling, and thanks to caffeine, is very satisfying. Soft drinks and juices are poor examples of carbs though, you could do a lot better, and maybe get some protein and some fiber. Favas are a lot more satiating than a soft drink and much more palatable than a shot glass of olive oil.


Perhaps heavy carb consumption causes retention of too much water and such folk swell up like a balloon! I know my feet/ankles used to swell up on high carb diet. They dont swell on low carb diet. I eat plenty non starchy produce, lots water, lots fiber, not carb dense like grain. Grain has fiber, but is also highly carb dense, the fiber it has is but a drop in an ocean of carbs.

Ah but the body can use olive oil. Human brain is mostly fat. All it can do with Dr. Pepper is add to the spare tire around your middle and in process keep you liver busy changing blood glucose to visceral fat. The last fat in body to be burned. 

Diet pop, really? What exactly is your body supposed to do with that? Talk about a pointless way to spend money: zero calories, zero nutrition, plus the benefit of toxic waste for your body to get rid of. If it doesnt occur naturally in nature, wasnt meant to be eaten. Instead how about a nice glass of water.....

You still havent explained why I lost 50 pound eating all these more calorie dense fats???? And its stayed off for 3 year now. Dont think temporary water weight loss explains it. I mean if I lost 50 pound water, I would look like a human prune or Egyptian mummy. From your perspective I should weigh 20 times as much? Since by your figures one ounce of olive oil is 20 times the calories as one ounce Dr. Pepper.....

And again for me it never was about losing weight. I am diabetic and control my blood sugar through diet. Carbs spike my blood sugar, some worse than others, usually depends on amount fiber with the carbs. Low starch produce has few carbs and LOT fiber, doesnt budge my blood glucose even if I eat a boatload of it. Half cup BROWN rice or an Irish potato and zoom. Losing the 50 pound was just side benefit.

Favas? I assume you mean fava beans unless its some proprietary "better living through chemistry" product???? By way not even sure where I would buy fava beans. But as Dr. Lecter suggests: “I ate his liver with some fava beans and a nice chianti.”


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## barnbilder

I love me some diet soda. Nothing like a good belch after a light snack. Aspartame boogey men don't scare me. I am not one of the tiny percentage of people that get headaches from it, nor am I one of the larger percentage of people who claim to get headaches because they read that a tiny percentage of people get headaches from it. I seldom drink aspartame sweetened soda anyway. On the occasions I do drink diet soda, I prefer the naturally sweetened ones. I'll make you a bet. Let's each get locked in a trunk. I'll take diet soda, you can take olive oil. Seven days, nothing else. 


Fava beans are about the best thing a human being can eat, and are a breakfast staple in many cultures. Half the calories and carbs of pintos but only a third less protein. Eat twice as much and end up with more protein and a fuller belly compared to pintos. Of course they give you a little gas, which probably doesn't work well if you are on keto.


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## Skamp

I’ve never had a diet soda.


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## Danaus29

Aspartame doesn't bother me but sucralose sure does. Couldn't understand why imitation crab and lobster were making me extremely sick until I read the labels. 

newfieannie, check your sour cream labels too. Some brands are full of the same junk as the cottage cheese. Daisy Brand however, does not contain a bunch of additives. Costs a bit more but it's worth it.


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## no really

I read every label when buying food, I try to avoid the additives whenever possible.


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## Oregon1986

Discovered today that Denney's does lettuce wraps,was pretty darn good


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## Elffriend

Danaus29 said:


> newfieannie, check your sour cream labels too. Some brands are full of the same junk as the cottage cheese. Daisy Brand however, does not contain a bunch of additives. Costs a bit more but it's worth it.


Here in Ontario, and possibly other places in Canada as well, Gaylea Gold is the only brand I've been able to find without thickeners or other additives.


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## barnbilder

We do all of our own dairy products, except sometimes some greek fat free yogurt. It's about the only thing you can buy to eat on the go when you are away from home that won't completely trash your numbers, that and jerky, but the jerky has too much salt. Hard finding numbers for the home grown stuff but am learning. We eat a lot of chevre, in place of things like sour cream or cottage cheese. Tastes better, easier to make, and really good numbers.


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## Oregon1986

My go to snack on the go these days is a fill pickle with turkey wrapped around it


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## newfieannie

the only thing I've seen around here in Gaylea Gold is butter. no daisy brand here. it was mostly Scotsburn and Farmers but one if not 2 of them have been sold to Ontario. still have their original name so don't know who bought them. there is carrageen(SP)? in all of it.i was using heavy cream in my coffee before I read the ingredients now I use coconut oil or butter as HJ recommended. I've gotten use to it . I really like the heavy cream and if I could find some that didn't have all this stuff I would use it again. ~Georgia


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## alida

newfieannie said:


> the only thing I've seen around here in Gaylea Gold is butter. no daisy brand here. it was mostly Scotsburn and Farmers but one if not 2 of them have been sold to Ontario. still have their original name so don't know who bought them. there is carrageen(SP)? in all of it.i was using heavy cream in my coffee before I read the ingredients now I use coconut oil or butter as HJ recommended. I've gotten use to it . I really like the heavy cream and if I could find some that didn't have all this stuff I would use it again. ~Georgia


Georgia,
Some organic varieties of heavy cream don't contain carrageen. I don't use much milk or cream, but when I do, I buy Harmony Organic. I checked their website and the ingredient list for everything is milk (or cream for whipping cream). No carrageen. It's expensive, especially compared to the regular store brands, and there's a deposit on the glass jars too, but if you wish to go back to cream in your tea I think you'd like their products. I see from the website map that it's available in Wolfville, Annapolis Royal and Hammonds Plains,just outside Halifax/Dartmouth. http://harmonyorganic.ca/locate-a-store


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## painterswife

https://jenniferbanz.com/90-second-microwave-bread


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## roadless

Have you tried this recipe Painterswife? 
Looks good.


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## painterswife

roadless said:


> Have you tried this recipe Painterswife?
> Looks good.


Not yet.


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## newfieannie

this is more or less the same recipe I have I add sauteed onions and cheese to mine. I have a pic back there somewhere. I made another couple today. make them in large bun pans. one lasts me a couple days. I will try this one tomorrow but I don't do well with baking in a microwave. I only have straight microwave now no convection.~Georgia


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## newfieannie

alida said:


> Georgia,
> Some organic varieties of heavy cream don't contain carrageen. I don't use much milk or cream, but when I do, I buy Harmony Organic. I checked their website and the ingredient list for everything is milk (or cream for whipping cream). No carrageen. It's expensive, especially compared to the regular store brands, and there's a deposit on the glass jars too, but if you wish to go back to cream in your tea I think you'd like their products. I see from the website map that it's available in Wolfville, Annapolis Royal and Hammonds Plains,just outside Halifax/Dartmouth. http://harmonyorganic.ca/locate-a-store


Hammonds plains is only about 20 min from me Alida. I have to go there for a meeting next week and i'll check it out. Thanks! ~Georgia


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## newfieannie

well I don't know about all of you but I'm still with the Keto plan. tons of energy! which I need with 2 properties. was in the supermarket sunday morning and felt my jeans slipping down. had to hold them up with 1 hand while I shopped for the rest of my stuff.

I really liked those . they were by Gloria Vanderbilt and I had them for ages. even if I use a belt they will look baggy elsewhere. I do have one pair left that will fit me good. not sure at what point we level off and stop losing. I feel good and don't want to gain. I could probably lose a few more lbs. ~Georgia


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## Nsoitgoes

I am still here now and then, still on keto. Blood sugars and blood pressure are still great. My last A1c was 5.2 which is "OK", though I would prefer it be under 5. I worked a job for a few months and was pretty tired, so my days consisted of farm chores and work. Food was mostly of the grab and go variety: veggies, cheese, hard boiled eggs, and the leftovers my dear SO always sends me home with. Now I am going to be enclosing my west pasture with cattle panes - which will be hard work but has to be done. I will perhaps up my calories a little via a little extra fat - probably in the form of avocados as I LOVE those babies.


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## newfieannie

funny thing I hated avocados when I started this plan. now I can't get enough. I had to move my belt to another hole today. that's my last pair of jeans so I better have a look tomorrow when I'm out. in the regular stores they are too stiff for me. not to mention the price

I was thinking awhile ago no wonder I'm losing lbs. I figured it out I had no trouble eating 5 slices bread a day. so that would come to over 400 slices that I didn't eat since I started. not to mention the sugar, cookies,sweet loaves etc. I should have been big as a barrel but I wasn't .worked it off I suppose~Georgia


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## barnbilder

I am currently crushing 400 grams of carbs a day. I too will need new pants soon. My waist has stopped shrinking, there is no more fat there. But my legs are getting really tight from my huge growing quads.


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## Terri

barnbilder said:


> I am currently crushing 400 grams of carbs a day. I too will need new pants soon. My waist has stopped shrinking, there is no more fat there. But my legs are getting really tight from my huge growing quads.


I am happy for you both: you both have worked hard and you both deserve to enjoy the results!


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## Nsoitgoes

Just jumping on to say "Hi!" I am about 2/3rds done with the cattle panels in my west pasture. It is hard work, but the end, as they say, is nigh. John's best friend's daughter gets married this weekend so I will try to get to his house as early as possible tomorrow so I can get all "fixed up" before the rehearsal. Hair, nails, facial, so on and so forth. My dress for Saturday fits perfectly and I have the cutest fascinator hat. We are hosting a buffet dinner for some out-of-town guests on Sunday. Much of that will be keto - though no-one will know. LOL. I will pop in with photos when I get back on Monday. Gotta go bake a cheesecake. Walnut/cocoa crust, with vanilla cheesecake and dark chocolate drizzle. It *does* use artificial sweeteners, which I don't like as a general rule, but as I so rarely eat anything sweet I am making this one concession this time. Live dangerously LOL.


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## Skamp

So, we are and then we aren’t? It’s so lovely watching the 4001st episode of Jerry Springer.


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## Terri

Skamp said:


> So, we are and then we aren’t? It’s so lovely watching the 4001st episode of Jerry Springer.


That is not what she said.


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## Skamp

Terri said:


> That is not what she said.



I know, I did.


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## no really

Nsoitgoes said:


> Just jumping on to say "Hi!" I am about 2/3rds done with the cattle panels in my west pasture. It is hard work, but the end, as they say, is nigh. John's best friend's daughter gets married this weekend so I will try to get to his house as early as possible tomorrow so I can get all "fixed up" before the rehearsal. Hair, nails, facial, so on and so forth. My dress for Saturday fits perfectly and I have the cutest fascinator hat. We are hosting a buffet dinner for some out-of-town guests on Sunday. Much of that will be keto - though no-one will know. LOL. I will pop in with photos when I get back on Monday. Gotta go bake a cheesecake. Walnut/cocoa crust, with vanilla cheesecake and dark chocolate drizzle. It *does* use artificial sweeteners, which I don't like as a general rule, but as I so rarely eat anything sweet I am making this one concession this time. Live dangerously LOL.


Sounds wonderful and looking forward to the photos!


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## Skamp

Thereagree said:


> _.............while not adding sugar._



Wrong. It's called lactose.


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## Alice In TX/MO

He said without adding sugar. Lactose is, as you know, a carbohydrate. 

However, I am positing that he meant sugar from a bag or similar product.


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## Kiamichi Kid

newfieannie said:


> well I don't know about all of you but I'm still with the Keto plan. tons of energy! which I need with 2 properties. was in the supermarket sunday morning and felt my jeans slipping down. had to hold them up with 1 hand while I shopped for the rest of my stuff.
> 
> I really liked those . they were by Gloria Vanderbilt and I had them for ages. even if I use a belt they will look baggy elsewhere. I do have one pair left that will fit me good. not sure at what point we level off and stop losing. I feel good and don't want to gain. I could probably lose a few more lbs. ~Georgia


I was carrying a 40 pack of bottled water from my friend's car to the house and my pants were falling off.... I had to stop twice to pull them up..lol Keto and OMAD works for me....although lately I've changed up my routine a bit doing some experimentation ...


----------



## barnbilder

Kiamichi Kid said:


> I was carrying a 40 pack of bottled water from my friend's car to the house and my pants were falling off.... I had to stop twice to pull them up..lol Keto and OMAD works for me....although lately I've changed up my routine a bit doing some experimentation ...


If you did flex dieting and some resistance training instead of keto and omad, your pants would have stayed up because they would be unable to fall off of your huge quads while you were carrying your friend's car with the bottled water in it up to the house.


----------



## Kiamichi Kid

barnbilder said:


> If you did flex dieting and some resistance training instead of keto and omad, your pants would have stayed up because they would be unable to fall off of your huge quads while you were carrying your friend's car with the bottled water in it up to the house.


My way works just fine.....


----------



## barnbilder

Kiamichi Kid said:


> My way works just fine.....
> View attachment 67228


"Your way" will cost you a lot of muscle mass if you use it to reach anywhere near a healthy weight. It looks like you have some muscle mass, but it is hard to tell, you really need to cut. Stop when you see veins and abs.


----------



## no really

Kiamichi Kid said:


> My way works just fine.....
> View attachment 67228


Yes! Yes, it does.


----------



## barnbilder

Waiting for the after picture to evaluate merits of this particular diet plan.


----------



## painterswife

This Keto body builder looks fine to me. http://thatketoguy.com/ketogenic-diet-and-bodybuilding/

I could provide lots more examples but I doubt it would make any difference to someone who seems to only want to put down others ways of eating.


----------



## painterswife

https://www.bodybuilding.com/content/in-depth-look-at-ketogenic-diets-and-ketosis.html


----------



## Kiamichi Kid

barnbilder said:


> "Your way" will cost you a lot of muscle mass if you use it to reach anywhere near a healthy weight. It looks like you have some muscle mass, but it is hard to tell, you really need to cut. Stop when you see veins and abs.


No it won't, and this ain't my first rodeo....I'll "stop" when I feel like it and that'll be when I've met my own goals for weight and body composition... I'm doing this for my own reasons which most likely are different than yours and many others...I'm most certainly not looking for an "ultra low" body fat or "shredded" physique ...just a healthy body composition.


----------



## Nsoitgoes

Sorry it's been so long... My life has been one thing after another the last few weeks. Here are my photos from the wedding. I was 137#. I have since gone down another couple - not sure what I am now. I was 134# Saturday. 

My blood sugar continues to be well controlled - which is the reason I started being really serious about this way of eating in the first place.


----------



## painterswife

You look lovely. I love when health proves the way of eating.


----------



## DKWunlimited

Kiamichi Kid said:


> My way works just fine.....
> View attachment 67228


hubba hubba


----------



## DKWunlimited

Daughter and I are just starting keto, was looking for tips and ideas but didn't find much in this thread. Where is a better place to look? 
We each want to lose about 50# and I am in a wheelchair to working out ain't happening.


----------



## Nsoitgoes

DKWunlimited said:


> Daughter and I are just starting keto, was looking for tips and ideas but didn't find much in this thread. Where is a better place to look?
> We each want to lose about 50# and I am in a wheelchair to working out ain't happening.


Bare bones: 20 grams total carbs per day. 1gram of protein per kilogram of *ideal* weight (1kg is roughly 2.2 pounds, so most women need around 50-60 grams); Fat about double the grams of protein. For your carbs, eat salads and fresh low carb veggies. No grains or starches. No legumes or root veggies. Proteins: Fatty meats, fish, cheese (limited - about 2 oz per day) eggs, etc. Offal such as liver are power houses of nutrition but pretty high in carbs, so beware and don't overdo them. Fats: healthy natural fats such as are found in lard, tallow, cream, butter, coconut and olive oils are best. Avoid vegetable oils where possible. 

I often find that I am not hungry but once a day. Usually around 3:30 or so in the afternoon, so that is when I eat when I am alone. Your internal clock may be different. Learn to listen to your body. Eat only when hungry, stop when hunger is assuaged. Which sounds simple, but many of us are so used to eating on a schedule that we eat to a timetable out of habit. We are urged to clean our plates when we are children, so we overeat as a matter of course, eating what is presented and ignoring signals telling us we have had enough. 

Many people find a food tracker such as Carb Manager or MyFitnessPal very helpful. The free apps are fine - no need to pay for the upgraded versions.

Working out is excellent and beneficial for many things, but losing weight isn't one of them.

Are you on facebook? There are a few keto groups on there. Some are good. Some not so good. Avoid the ones that are full of recipes for copy cat versions of all the stuff you are not now going to eat. Don't get me wrong: I have been known to make a keto cheesecake, the occasional keto rolls, and even a keto pizza. Once in a blue moon. They are very helpful when you are entertaining people who expect that sort of thing. But you will not lose the desire to eat the things that are bad for you if you keep indulging in faux versions of same. If you don't eat them you will lose the taste for them. Yes, honestly!

Another thing I want to say: This is not really "a diet" in that you use it to lose weight then go merrily back to old habits. It was the old habits that got you overweight in the first place. Go back to the same old eating habits, you will go back to the same old weight. This should be a new way of eating, that becomes your new habit.

Any questions, we are all here to help you!


----------



## HermitJohn

What she said, the only diet that is going to work long term is one you can stick with long term without it feeling like a prison sentence. Short term diets at best give short term weight loss, when diet stops, the weight comes back.

Personally I find calorie counting or carb counting tedious. I dont call what I do keto, just low carb. but basically amounts to no grain, no starchy veggies, and no added sugars/starches and no fake sweeteners. Nothing that is going to zoom my blood sugar. Controlling blood sugar was and is my big concern. As side benefit I lost 50 pounds then stabilized and holding there for last 3 year. Works for me and simple enough I can live with it long term. For type2 diabetic like me, there is either low carb, or insulin and diabetes drugs. No going back ever, simply not an option.

The biggest hurdles you will find are when you try to eat out or when you have to regularly eat with other people. I am a hermit so not problem for me. But can see it being hassle if you live with people not eating low carb or if you have to frequently travel or otherwise eat out.


----------



## newfieannie

exactly! what they both said. I made a few mistakes when I started but quickly got into it and haven't looked back and feel so much better for it. losing weight was a side benefit for me also.

HJ mentioned travel. I'm going for a road trip for a couple of weeks. I don't have a camper now so it will have to be motels. i seldom eat at a restaurant anyway so I plan to take food with me and eat in the room. i'll buy fresh fruit etc. on the way. I do IF also so that will take care of a couple days ~ Georgia


----------



## barnbilder

You can lose weight quite easily by simply using My Fitness Pal and tracking your calorie intake and maintaining a caloric deficit. You don't have to stick to the keto diet strictly, but can incorporate elements of it if you like, or need to. There are all kind of places to calculate the calories you need, MFP, Macros Inc., and others. I personally find it difficult to sustain a diet plan that severely limits food choices. I had some yummy fruity pebble treats (like rice crispy treats but made with fruity pebbles) just this morning. I knew I could do it without any effect on my fitness goals, and that is very liberating. Things like that make the tedium of tracking calories worthwhile.


----------



## painterswife

I do low carb, high fat with fasting thrown in more than I do Keto. Keto is a really good way to get on track and rid your body of the carb cravings. I added fasting when I eat a higher carb meal. That way I can have a desert or higher carb meal every once in a while. For me low carb higher fat is better for my blood pressure, my energy level and what I call brain fog.

It can be a really easy way to eat. Lots of green veggies and meat with healthy fats. I eat pizza lots ( Fathead Pizza) Cheesecake, scotch eggs, salmon, chicken salad with homemade mayo. For me it is about having easy to grab fats and protein foods instead of the to easy to grab carbs. I get less cravings and am far less hungry. I never get that feeling where I am shaky from lack of food. I use to get that a lot. Now I can easily go 24 hours without eating and still have tons of energy.


----------



## no really

painterswife said:


> I do low carb, high fat with fasting thrown in more than I do Keto. Keto is a really good way to get on track and rid your body of the carb cravings. I added fasting when I eat a higher carb meal. That way I can have a desert or higher carb meal every once in a while. For me low carb higher fat is better for my blood pressure, my energy level and what I call brain fog.
> 
> It can be a really easy way to eat. Lots of green veggies and meat with healthy fats. I eat pizza lots ( Fathead Pizza) Cheesecake, scotch eggs, salmon, chicken salad with homemade mayo. For me it is about having easy to grab fats and protein foods instead of the to easy to grab carbs. I get less cravings and am far less hungry. I never get that feeling where I am shaky from lack of food. I use to get that a lot. Now I can easily go 24 hours without eating and still have tons of energy.


That's basically what I do, for the same reasons. Can't function well with high carbs, kills my energy and that in turn messes with my workouts. I've noticed that some resturants are labeling and preparing keto diets.


----------



## no really

What is nice when traveling overseas you can find so much good nutrient dense foods and a lot less additives.


----------



## painterswife

The best thing about Keto is that it is a great way of eating for people that can't increase their exercise in a significant way. Reducing your hunger is a huge step for most people. Add to that reducing your cravings and you can make huge strides in getting to that calorie balance for your perfect weight.


----------



## barnbilder

Exercise is not for losing weight. Cutting caloric intake is how you lose weight. Exercise can burn a few extra calories, but as weight comes off, it is hard to exercise enough to maintain that burn rate (you are lifting less weight with stronger muscles when you walk for instance). Exercise is to build strength by growing muscles, and build endurance which can make the heart healthier. Eat to lose weight, exercise to stay healthy. One of the benefits of growing more muscle, which is possible even in a wheelchair, is being able to eat more calories, but muscle growth while losing weight is difficult.


----------



## painterswife

Many other things beside being in a wheelchair prevent people from increasing the level of exercise or building more muscle then they already have.


----------



## Skamp

Nsoitgoes said:


> Bare bones: 20 grams total carbs per day. 1gram of protein per kilogram of *ideal* weight (1kg is roughly 2.2 pounds, so most women need around 50-60 grams); Fat about double the grams of protein. For your carbs, eat salads and fresh low carb veggies. No grains or starches. No legumes or root veggies. Proteins: Fatty meats, fish, cheese (limited - about 2 oz per day) eggs, etc. Offal such as liver are power houses of nutrition but pretty high in carbs, so beware and don't overdo them. Fats: healthy natural fats such as are found in lard, tallow, cream, butter, coconut and olive oils are best. Avoid vegetable oils where possible.
> 
> I often find that I am not hungry but once a day. Usually around 3:30 or so in the afternoon, so that is when I eat when I am alone. Your internal clock may be different. Learn to listen to your body. Eat only when hungry, stop when hunger is assuaged. Which sounds simple, but many of us are so used to eating on a schedule that we eat to a timetable out of habit. We are urged to clean our plates when we are children, so we overeat as a matter of course, eating what is presented and ignoring signals telling us we have had enough.
> 
> Many people find a food tracker such as Carb Manager or MyFitnessPal very helpful. The free apps are fine - no need to pay for the upgraded versions.
> 
> Working out is excellent and beneficial for many things, but losing weight isn't one of them.
> 
> Are you on facebook? There are a few keto groups on there. Some are good. Some not so good. Avoid the ones that are full of recipes for copy cat versions of all the stuff you are not now going to eat. Don't get me wrong: I have been known to make a keto cheesecake, the occasional keto rolls, and even a keto pizza. Once in a blue moon. They are very helpful when you are entertaining people who expect that sort of thing. But you will not lose the desire to eat the things that are bad for you if you keep indulging in faux versions of same. If you don't eat them you will lose the taste for them. Yes, honestly!
> 
> Another thing I want to say: This is not really "a diet" in that you use it to lose weight then go merrily back to old habits. It was the old habits that got you overweight in the first place. Go back to the same old eating habits, you will go back to the same old weight. This should be a new way of eating, that becomes your new habit.
> 
> Any questions, we are all here to help you!


This just sounds so ridiculous to me. 

That’s roughly 1300 calories, anyone overweight can loose weight on 1300 calories a day of Oreos. The vitamin/mineral profile would have the same issues. 

Depriving yourself of entire food groups is always going to be a social burden. 

Buying in to a lab diet based on treating a very, very, narrow section of the population is short sighted. 

Your animosity towards Little Debbie is way too broad. Lol


----------



## Terri

Skamp said:


> That’s roughly 1300 calories, anyone overweight can loose weight on 1300 calories a day of Oreos.


Exactly so.

This is the diet she has chosen, and if it is not the foods that you or I find tasty then that does not really matter.

Also salads have far more vitamins than Oreos do. A person can eat low carb and stay healthy. Since they are the one doing the eating, it is better for them to eat 1300 calories that THEY choose instead of the 1300 calories that you or I would choose. Because people will find dieting easier if they enjoy their meals


----------



## no really

Yeah, great nutrient value LOL. 

*Nutritional Information, Diet Info and Calories in 
Oreo Cookie 
from Oreo*
*Nutrition Facts*
Serving Size 
3 cookies

Amount Per Serving
Calories 
160
Calories from Fat 
58

% Daily Value*
Total Fat 
7g
11%
Saturated Fat 
2g
10%
Trans Fat 
0g
Cholesterol 
0mg
0%
Sodium 
190mg
8%
Potassium 
0mg
0%
Total Carbohydrate 
25g
8%
Dietary Fiber 
1g
4%
Sugars 
14g
Protein 
2g
4%

Vitamin A 0% • Vitamin C 0%
Calcium 0% • Iron 10%
* Percent Daily Values are based on a 2,000 calorie diet. Your daily values may be higher or lower depending on your calorie needs.


----------



## Oregon1986

no really said:


> Yeah, great nutrient value LOL.
> 
> *Nutritional Information, Diet Info and Calories in *
> *Oreo Cookie *
> *from Oreo*
> *Nutrition Facts*
> Serving Size
> 3 cookies
> 
> Amount Per Serving
> Calories
> 160
> Calories from Fat
> 58
> 
> % Daily Value*
> Total Fat
> 7g
> 11%
> Saturated Fat
> 2g
> 10%
> Trans Fat
> 0g
> Cholesterol
> 0mg
> 0%
> Sodium
> 190mg
> 8%
> Potassium
> 0mg
> 0%
> Total Carbohydrate
> 25g
> 8%
> Dietary Fiber
> 1g
> 4%
> Sugars
> 14g
> Protein
> 2g
> 4%
> 
> Vitamin A 0% • Vitamin C 0%
> Calcium 0% • Iron 10%
> * Percent Daily Values are based on a 2,000 calorie diet. Your daily values may be higher or lower depending on your calorie needs.


Gah I love Oreos,how I miss thy


----------



## Skamp

no really said:


> Yeah, great nutrient value LOL.
> 
> *Nutritional Information, Diet Info and Calories in *
> *Oreo Cookie *
> *from Oreo*
> *Nutrition Facts*
> Serving Size
> 3 cookies
> 
> Amount Per Serving
> Calories
> 160
> Calories from Fat
> 58
> 
> % Daily Value*
> Total Fat
> 7g
> 11%
> Saturated Fat
> 2g
> 10%
> Trans Fat
> 0g
> Cholesterol
> 0mg
> 0%
> Sodium
> 190mg
> 8%
> Potassium
> 0mg
> 0%
> Total Carbohydrate
> 25g
> 8%
> Dietary Fiber
> 1g
> 4%
> Sugars
> 14g
> Protein
> 2g
> 4%
> 
> Vitamin A 0% • Vitamin C 0%
> Calcium 0% • Iron 10%
> * Percent Daily Values are based on a 2,000 calorie diet. Your daily values may be higher or lower depending on your calorie needs.



You’re way short on calories first, and therefore way short on nutrients. 

You’re only using the USDA label which is short reporting most vitamins and minerals. 

Still, it’s a sad diet. Lol


----------



## Skamp

painterswife said:


> The best thing about Keto is that it is a great way of eating for people that can't increase their exercise in a significant way. Reducing your hunger is a huge step for most people. Add to that reducing your cravings and you can make huge strides in getting to that calorie balance for your perfect weight.


Should we support a cocaine diet?


----------



## painterswife

Skamp said:


> Should we support a cocaine diet?


Your posts are so helpful. Keep up the good work.


----------



## no really

Skamp said:


> You’re way short on calories first, and therefore way short on nutrients.
> 
> You’re only using the USDA label which is short reporting most vitamins and minerals.
> 
> Still, it’s a sad diet. Lol


Find a better one than USDA than we can talk otherwise you're just blowing hot air again


----------



## Skamp

painterswife said:


> Your posts are so helpful. Keep up the good work.


It fits all of your arguments for a healthy diet.


----------



## painterswife

Skamp said:


> It fits all of your arguments for a healthy diet.


 Cocaine is not food it is a drug. I thought you might know that.


----------



## Terri

Skamp said:


> Should we support a cocaine diet?


Skamp. many people here would rather hit their big toes with a hammer than eat a diet of Froot Loops or whatever. You keep pushing foods that most of the people here do not like and would seriously hate to eat.

Personally I like a meat and potatos and salad diet, but this seems to offend you because I am not eating any Froot Loops. You keep insisting that my prefferred foods will leave me unsatisfied and prone to binge because I am not ALSO eating Froot Loops.

I think you should enjoy your Froot Loops in the properly measured amounts, and leave me to eat my grilled steak, salad, baked potato, and butter. I am afraid I lost most of my appetite for Froot Loops-whether measured or not- a very long time ago


----------



## Skamp

no really said:


> Find a better one than USDA than we can talk otherwise you're just blowing hot air again


You miss one very, very, important subtlety, USDA label vs USDA nutritive values. Whole Foods, I’d think the majority here would know such. I’m learning different


----------



## Terri

Also, guys? Kwitch your bickering: if I have to stop the car I will start deleting.


----------



## Terri

Skamp said:


> You miss one very, very, important subtlety, USDA label vs USDA nutritive values. Whole Foods, I’d think the majority here would know such. I’m learning different


Better! Not perfect, but better!

Also, source for the difference between the two? This looks lik something that is good to learn!


----------



## painterswife

Terri said:


> Also, guys? Kwitch your bickering: if I have to stop the car I will start deleting.


Terri. Are we expected to just take the constant put downs of the ways we are trying to improve our health?


----------



## Skamp

Terri said:


> Skamp. many people here would rather hit their big toes with a hammer than eat a diet of Froot Loops or whatever. You keep pushing foods that most of the people here do not like and would seriously hate to eat.
> 
> Personally I like a meat and potatos and salad diet, but this seems to offend you because I am not eating any Froot Loops. You keep insisting that my prefferred foods will leave me unsatisfied and prone to binge because I am not ALSO eating Froot Loops.
> 
> I think you should enjoy your Froot Loops in the properly measured amounts, and leave me to eat my grilled steak, salad, baked potato, and butter. I am afraid I lost most of my appetite for Froot Loops-whether measured or not- a very long time ago


Show me my support of Fruit Loops, please?


----------



## Skamp

painterswife said:


> Terri. Are we expected to just take the constant put downs of the ways we are trying to improve our health?


No counterpoints allowed? No serious health warnings on the path you choose?


----------



## no really

Skamp said:


> You miss one very, very, important subtlety, USDA label vs USDA nutritive values. Whole Foods, I’d think the majority here would know such. I’m learning different


Please provide the info, I'm interested.


----------



## Skamp

no really said:


> Please provide the info, I'm interested.


Leading question, and the boss is watching. Lol

Research it yourself. That’s one of my main points. If you don’t know your vitamin/mineral profile, you’re lost.


----------



## no really

Skamp said:


> Leading question, and the boss is watching. Lol
> 
> Research it yourself. That’s one of my main points. If you don’t know your vitamin/mineral profile, you’re lost.


At least this convo is good for a laugh..


----------



## Skamp

Terri said:


> Better! Not perfect, but better!
> 
> Also, source for the difference between the two? This looks lik something that is good to learn!


It’s quelled.


----------



## Skamp

no really said:


> At least this convo is good for a laugh..


Careful, who is the laugh on?


----------



## Terri

Skamp said:


> Leading question, and the boss is watching. Lol
> 
> Research it yourself. That’s one of my main points. If you don’t know your vitamin/mineral profile, you’re lost.


Ah, but you are saying one form of vitamin profile is not accurate, and that would be a thing worth knowing.

As for the Froot Loops comment I remember it clearly but you are a prolific poster and I am not going to search for where you said that your box of Fruit Loops was down to crumbs and so you ate a different high carb breakfast.

Ick. I prefer food in my food.


----------



## Skamp

Terri said:


> Better! Not perfect, but better!
> 
> Also, source for the difference between the two? This looks lik something that is good to learn!


I’ll return. You seriously don’t know the difference between a USDA label and a USDA listing?


----------



## no really

Skamp said:


> Careful, who is the laugh on?


You, no info, big laughs.


----------



## Terri

Skamp said:


> I’ll return. You seriously don’t know the difference between a USDA label and a USDA listing?


I was under the impression that both were accurate, barring errors due to erroneous assumptions made by the testing labs. Assumptions such as dehydrated oranges would have as much vitamin C as fresh ones: they did THAT boo-boo many years back!


----------



## Skamp

Terri said:


> Ah, but you are saying one form of vitamin profile is not accurate, and that would be a thing worth knowing.
> 
> As for the Froot Loops comment I remember it clearly but you are a prolific poster and I am not going to search for where you said that your box of Fruit Loops was down to crumbs and so you ate a different high carb breakfast.
> 
> Ick. I prefer food in my food.


Fake news.


----------



## Skamp

Terri said:


> I was under the impression that both were accurate, barring errors due to erroneous assumptions made by the testing labs. Assumptions such as dehydrated oranges would have as much vitamin C as fresh ones: they did THAT boo-boo many years back!


The label is seriously lacking, seriously lacking.


----------



## Terri

Skamp said:


> The label is seriously lacking, seriously lacking.


In what way? Is it inaccurate or incomplete?


----------



## no really

Just for you. The USDA listing

Energy kcal 140 483
Protein g 1.00 3.45
Total lipid (fat) g 6.00 20.69
Carbohydrate, by difference g 21.00 72.41
Fiber, total dietary g 1.0 3.4
Sugars, total g 13.00 44.83
Minerals
Calcium, Ca mg 0 0
Iron, Fe mg 1.44 4.97
Potassium, K mg 50 172
Sodium, Na mg 100 345
Vitamins
Vitamin C, total ascorbic acid mg 0.0 0.0
Vitamin A, IU IU 0 0
Lipids
Fatty acids, total saturated g 2.001 6.900
Fatty acids, total trans g 0.000 0.000
Cholesterol mg 0


https://ndb.nal.usda.gov/ndb/foods/...H COOKIES, CHOCOLATE CREME, UPC: 044000025298


----------



## Skamp

Terri said:


> In what way? Is it inaccurate or incomplete?


The label is incomplete.


----------



## Terri

Skamp said:


> The label is incomplete.


I have noticed that but I can live with it. 

Eating spinach and bell peppers and things in my salads will give me far more minerals than anything that the food companies will put in a box of ready to eat food.


----------



## Skamp

no really said:


> Just for you. The USDA listing
> 
> Energy kcal 140 483
> Protein g 1.00 3.45
> Total lipid (fat) g 6.00 20.69
> Carbohydrate, by difference g 21.00 72.41
> Fiber, total dietary g 1.0 3.4
> Sugars, total g 13.00 44.83
> Minerals
> Calcium, Ca mg 0 0
> Iron, Fe mg 1.44 4.97
> Potassium, K mg 50 172
> Sodium, Na mg 100 345
> Vitamins
> Vitamin C, total ascorbic acid mg 0.0 0.0
> Vitamin A, IU IU 0 0
> Lipids
> Fatty acids, total saturated g 2.001 6.900
> Fatty acids, total trans g 0.000 0.000
> Cholesterol mg 0
> 
> 
> https://ndb.nal.usda.gov/ndb/foods/show/338330?manu=&fgcd=&ds=&q=NABISCO, OREO, CHOCOLATE SANDWICH COOKIES, CHOCOLATE CREME, UPC: 044000025298





no really said:


> Just for you. The USDA listing
> 
> Energy kcal 140 483
> Protein g 1.00 3.45
> Total lipid (fat) g 6.00 20.69
> Carbohydrate, by difference g 21.00 72.41
> Fiber, total dietary g 1.0 3.4
> Sugars, total g 13.00 44.83
> Minerals
> Calcium, Ca mg 0 0
> Iron, Fe mg 1.44 4.97
> Potassium, K mg 50 172
> Sodium, Na mg 100 345
> Vitamins
> Vitamin C, total ascorbic acid mg 0.0 0.0
> Vitamin A, IU IU 0 0
> Lipids
> Fatty acids, total saturated g 2.001 6.900
> Fatty acids, total trans g 0.000 0.000
> Cholesterol mg 0
> 
> 
> https://ndb.nal.usda.gov/ndb/foods/show/338330?manu=&fgcd=&ds=&q=NABISCO, OREO, CHOCOLATE SANDWICH COOKIES, CHOCOLATE CREME, UPC: 044000025298


You have one very elementary flaw. 

I can’t open the link on my phone, I’m out of town. 

Cookies, made in a lab of who knows where will not share a complete profile.


----------



## Skamp

Terri said:


> I have noticed that but I can live with it.
> 
> Eating spinach and bell peppers and things in my salads will give me far more minerals than anything that the food companies will put in a box of ready to eat food.


So you will agree that you do not know your vitamin/mineral profile from your food?


----------



## Terri

Skamp said:


> You have one very elementary flaw.
> 
> I can’t open the link on my phone, I’m out of town.
> 
> Cookies, made in a lab of who knows where will not share a complete profile.


It looks like a fairly complete listing. Anything they did not list I figure has a content of "0". After all, the less the companies put into their boxed food the greater their profit will be,


----------



## Terri

Skamp said:


> So you will agree that you do not know your vitamin/mineral profile from your food?


Just a down-and-dirty profile. When you are dealing with unprocessed food a great many of the vitamins and minerals will vary from plant to plant


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## no really

Skamp said:


> You have one very elementary flaw.
> 
> I can’t open the link on my phone, I’m out of town.
> 
> Cookies, made in a lab of who knows where will not share a complete profile.


Interesting you don't think the USDA does any testing or holds those accountable for erroneous reports? What nutrients do you think are being hidden?


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## Skamp

no really said:


> Interesting you don't think the USDA does any testing or holds those accountable for erroneous reports? What nutrients do you think are being hidden?


HELLO, HELLO, USDA labels do not require a complete vitamin/nutrient list.

That’s a big part of the communication gap here.


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## Terri

Skamp said:


> HELLO, HELLO, USDA labels do not require a complete vitamin/nutrient list.
> 
> That’s a big part of the communication gap here.


I am going to assume that you rely heavily on prepackaged food for your vitamins and minerals, then?


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## Skamp

Terri said:


> Just a down-and-dirty profile. When you are dealing with unprocessed food a great many of the vitamins and minerals will vary from plant to plant


That one hurts, that really hurts.

You’re telling me that my compost grown veggies are short of the USDA norm?

You short your audience, or I certainly hope so.

ETA: that should answer a previous question. Lol


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## no really

Skamp said:


> HELLO, HELLO, USDA labels do not require a complete vitamin/nutrient list.
> 
> That’s a big part of the communication gap here.


Really? You have a link or any corroboration on that comment? Need more than your saying it.


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## Terri

Skamp said:


> That one hurts, that really hurts.
> 
> You’re telling me that my compost grown veggies are short of the USDA norm?
> 
> You short your audience, or I certainly hope so.


If you eat a lot of backyard produce you do not have to CARE how much Vit K is in packaged food. Etc

Assume the amount of Vit K in packaged food is "0" and go from there. I do read labels and I find them adequate because I do not expect to get vitamins and minerals from packaged food


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## Terri

no really said:


> Really? You have a link or any corroboration on that comment? Need more than your saying it.


I have noticed that the labels only give the main nutrients and not the trace minerals. I actually consider the label to be good enough


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## Skamp

Terri said:


> If you eat a lot of backyard produce you do not have to CARE how much Vit K is in packaged food...........


I don’t eat packaged food, and there are two “K’s”. 

I find it easy to write such off with Keto, hence my concern.


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## Skamp

Terri said:


> I have noticed that the labels only give the main nutrients and not the trace minerals. I actually consider the label to be good enough


I consider that short sighted.


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## no really

Terri said:


> I have noticed that the labels only give the main nutrients and not the trace minerals. I actually consider the label to be good enough


As do I and the nutritionist I see feels the same as he uses them for his references.


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## Skamp

no really said:


> As do I and the nutritionist I see feels the same as he uses them for his references.


The “Nutritionist” can be a cat, literally. Lol. You need a “Registered Dietitian”.


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## Terri

Skamp said:


> I don’t eat packaged food, and there are two “K’s”.
> 
> I find it easy to write such off with Keto, hence my concern.


I was not aware you had tried keto. 

I realize that you think highly of the diet you are on, but I have not been able to figure out what you are eating, because you keep contradicting yourself. First you make comments about how no diet will succeed that does not allow ice cream, and then you say you do not eat packaged food. Which is correct? I most certainly do not know.


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## Terri

Skamp said:


> The “Nutritionist” can be a cat, literally.


Not unless the cat has studied.


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## Skamp

Terri said:


> I was not aware you had tried keto.
> 
> I realize that you think highly of the diet you are on, but I have not been able to figure out what you are eating, because you keep contradicting yourself. First you make comments about how no diet will succeed that does not allow ice cream, and then you say you do not eat packaged food. Which is correct? I most certainly do not know.


Fake news, again. You’re confusing me with another member and I aint tellen’. Lol


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## HermitJohn

Skamp said:


> Should we support a cocaine diet?


Same difference....


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## Skamp

Terri said:


> Not unless the cat has studied.


I think that some think that a degree can point to such.


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## oneraddad

Terri said:


> I was not aware you had tried keto.
> 
> I realize that you think highly of the diet you are on, but I have not been able to figure out what you are eating, because you keep contradicting yourself. First you make comments about how no diet will succeed that does not allow ice cream, and then you say you do not eat packaged food. Which is correct? I most certainly do not know.



You're confusing skamp with Barnbilder ?


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## Skamp

HermitJohn said:


> Same difference....


I’m not color blind.


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## Skamp

oneraddad said:


> You're confusing skamp with Barnbilder ?


She’s confused.


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## Terri

Skamp said:


> Fake news, again. You’re confusing me with another member and I aint tellen’. Lol


Yeah, maybe so.

Skamp. tell me something. People come here and post their diets and you have conniption fits because you say we are doing it all wrong. 

How about you post YOUR diet in all of its glory? You have said bits and pieces of it, but I do not recall you every giving us the run down of vitamins, minerals, carbs, protein, etc


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## Terri

Skamp said:


> I don’t eat packaged food, and there are two “K’s”.
> 
> I find it easy to write such off with Keto, hence my concern.


This is why I asked if you had tried keto? Otherwise how could you have found it easy to write off K while on keto?


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## Skamp

Terri said:


> Yeah, maybe so.
> 
> Skamp. tell me something. People come here and post their diets and you have conniption fits because you say we are doing it all wrong.
> 
> How about you post YOUR diet in all of its glory? You have said bits and pieces of it, but I do not recall you every giving us the run down of vitamins, minerals, carbs, protein, etc


No more fake news?


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## Terri

Skamp said:


> No more fake news?


If you post your diet will it be fake news?


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## Skamp

Terri said:


> If you post your diet will it be fake news?


Seems to assume I’m fake. You’ve been caught as such. Admit it.


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## Terri

Skamp said:


> Seems to assume I’m fake. You’ve been caught as such. Admit it.


I have been known to make a mistake-we all do sometimes- but fake? Nope.

Again, what is your diet? Amounts of calories, amount of protein, etc? Because you have found fault with every other diet I can think of and yet I am not alone in not knowing what diet you follow that you think is better than ours


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## no really

Skamp said:


> The “Nutritionist” can be a cat, literally. Lol. You need a “Registered Dietitian”.


LOL, he's a doctor. You're so funny, keep the jokes coming.


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## Skamp

Terri said:


> I have been known to make a mistake-we all do sometimes- but fake? Nope.
> 
> Again, what is your diet? Amounts of calories, amount of protein, etc? Because you have found fault with every other diet I can think of and yet I am not alone in not knowing what diet you follow that you think is better than ours


Fake, you attributed me to someone else. 

Why should the following commentary be heard any different?


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## Skamp

no really said:


> LOL, he's a doctor. You're so funny, keep the jokes coming.


I had palm reader in a response. Seriously, check the credentials.


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## no really

Skamp said:


> I had palm reader in a response. Seriously, check the credentials.


More jokes, LOL. You're so funny.


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## Terri

People are no longer exchanging information here: people are pot stirring and bickering instead. I have not heard any real information since the comment that the USDA labels were incomplete. 

Is it time to close the thread?


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## no really

Sorry I got involved, it was not productive.


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## Skamp

Terri said:


> People are no longer exchanging information here: people are pot stirring and bickering instead. I have not heard any real information since the comment that the USDA labels were incomplete.
> 
> Is it time to close the thread?


I’ll dive into the USDA, but you have to fess up.


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## Terri

Skamp said:


> I’ll dive into the USDA, but you have to fess up.


To sometimes making mistakes? To have confused you with a different poster for *SOME* of the posts? 

Yes.

However it is getting late and this thread is pretty hot. I will not permit it to continue to be active overnight if the bickering remains.


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## Skamp

Terri said:


> To sometimes making mistakes? To have confused you with a different poster for *SOME* of the posts?
> 
> Yes.
> 
> However it is getting late and this thread is pretty hot. I will not permit it to continue to be active overnight if the bickering remains.



Thank you.


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## Nsoitgoes

Oh, please. This thread needs to be closed. It has become nothing more than a grandstanding opportunity for someone who obviously has no real interest in the subject matter.


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## barnbilder

Reading this thread threw some serious cravings on me. Don't know whether to go get some cocaine or some oreos. It's been a long time since I rock and rolled.


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## Terri

Speaking from experience, high blood sugar can be addictive. After I was diagnosed with diabetes and got my blood sugar under control it took a full year before the cravings were reduced, and they have never entirely gone away.

But, the title of this thread is about what works on the keto diet. I believe we need to go back to discussing WHAT WORKS on the keto diet.


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## Oregon1986

I've been finding that if I keep my keto diet simple,I do much better. I can stay on track a lot easier if I limit my meals to say 6 different choices. Then there is no guessing if I went over or under


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## newfieannie

made some Keto porridge for breakfast. found several recipes and took what I wanted from each. I can't eat regular porridge because the oats bother me but I was getting tired of eggs. this was really good.







I used half coconut milk and half whipping cream for the liquid. chia seed, hemp hearts, flax, coconut oil etc. turned out to be so good. no sugar. must have been good. I ate the whole thing. I've been using hemp hearts for years but just with fruit etc. not in cooking. think i'll try hemp heart cookies in a bit.~Georgia


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## newfieannie

the cookies turned out to be good also. supposed to be hemp hearts breakfast cookies but they would go well for afternoon tea, snack etc. I wouldn't change any of the ingredients on this one. turned out perfect on the first try which is not usually the case ~Georgia


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## Oregon1986

newfieannie said:


> the cookies turned out to be good also. supposed to be hemp hearts breakfast cookies but they would go well for afternoon tea, snack etc. I wouldn't change any of the ingredients on this one. turned out perfect on the first try which is not usually the case ~Georgia
> View attachment 68344


Looks yummy


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## newfieannie

I've been using Chia seed but mostly mixed with cottage cheese. today I tried a pudding with coconut milk. cream etc. took about an hour to set. turned out to be so good. it will be a go to pudding for me for sure.






I used raspberries but any fruit would do or just the pudding alone is delicious. ~Georgia


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## Oregon1986

My biggest go to snack is turkey bacon,filling and healthy


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