# New to Solar...need some tips...



## abamomma (Sep 14, 2007)

We have decided that it is way past time for us to get some solar power going here at our home. I have quite a few questions and I'm sure I will have more as we get going with this....
If you can even just direct me to a good resource elsewhere it would be much appreciated. It is overwhelming to try to search on my own for the best information.
1. I have looked into building our own 60 watt panels, but it seems like a lot of work. does anyone know if doing this would actually save us much money at all?
2. How do we figure out the best place to put them? ie, roof, out in the yard, etc...
3. What else do we need to be prepared to purchase in order to get our home, or at least part of it, running on them
4. How much total Watts do we need to purchase if we want our whole home running on it? How do we calculate this?

I guess that is a start!  
Please bear with my temporary ignorance on this subject. :nerd:


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## Drew Cutter (Dec 30, 2008)

1. We need to know where you live (amount of sun shine you get per day)
2. Does you state have net metering ( measure how much electricity you use) . You can sell the excess back to the power company
3. which way does your house face (ideal that it face south)
4. Do you want to use batteries to store energy or do you want to be connected to the grid. (cheaper to be tied to the grid)
5. Look at rebates for installing solar
6. Get a dealer to give you an estimate ( #4 )
7. Subscribe to Home power magazine


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## wy_white_wolf (Oct 14, 2004)

1. Do an energy audit of your house and your lifestyle. See where you can reduce usage 1st as it will be cheaper to not use than than have to produce it. Learn to conserve.

2. Homemade panels will not qualify for any rebates/tax breaks.


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## abamomma (Sep 14, 2007)

Well...what I can tell you right now is that we live in NW Alabama. 
Our one acre lot and home face directly East. The NE corner has no shade until very late in the evening. The house does not see some shade until mid to late evening most days. (all of our shade trees are at the far back and in the SW corner) 
I do not know about net metering. Our bill shows our monthly KWH. Does that help at all?
I kind of like the idea of storing some energy, but we do not plan to disconnect from the grid yet either. If we were storing the energy, would it require less panels?

We have already been working on conserving energy quite a bit. The biggest problem that we have is that our home is all electric. Our hope is that we can initially lower our electricity bills, but most importantly, be able to still have things running if the power were to go out. (mainly heat in winter, stove, refrigerator, water heater...if possible) I can live without lights and even without my computer, but having children, the things I listed are our priority for keeping running at least part of the time. 

We do have a long-term goal of being completely off the grid, but do not expect that to happen right now.


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## no1cowboy (May 2, 2004)

running a electric furnace and water heater from solar panels is not practical


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## Jim-mi (May 15, 2002)

First . . .some serious discussion on changing out that >all electric< home..........
Second . . .new appliances powered be gas/propane.

Building your own PV panels is for experimenters /\ . . .Not for you.
When I learn how to post pix's I'm going to start a thread about home assembled PV panels and Fire. . . . . .not a good thing.


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## abamomma (Sep 14, 2007)

You both make a good point - and maybe that is what we should be looking into first. Gas is not an option out here, but propane is. Looks like I will be doing some checking into that tomorrow. 

I still want some solar for other things though so will be still looking at that too.


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## Drew Cutter (Dec 30, 2008)

Take a look at your usage on electric bill . This will tell you how much (highest) Kwh you will need. You could do Solar collector with a Chiller (For AC). Do you need heat ? (not familiar enough to know how cold it gets their). I've seen picture of solar collector leaning against a wall , instead of on the roof. Propane is getting to be an expensive way of heating.
Net metering - if you go solar you will need a new meter , the needle should go backwards as you create more electricity than you need . This excess is what you sell back to the utility company.


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## Drew Cutter (Dec 30, 2008)

Look at solar map . You will need to put solar on north side . Great area to live for solar (sunlight wise). For solar collector a flat panel over evacuated tube solar collector.


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## ericjeeper (Feb 25, 2006)

Drew Cutter said:


> Look at solar map . You will need to put solar on north side . Great area to live for solar (sunlight wise). For solar collector a flat panel over evacuated tube solar collector.


Wow I never realized that Alabama was south of the equator.


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## abamomma (Sep 14, 2007)

Drew Cutter said:


> Look at solar map


Is this a website?


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## WisJim (Jan 14, 2004)

http://homepower.com is a good place to get some basic info about solar and other renewables.


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## Nevada (Sep 9, 2004)

abamomma said:


> 1. I have looked into building our own 60 watt panels, but it seems like a lot of work. does anyone know if doing this would actually save us much money at all?


I did it myself, and yes it saves a lot. You can find solar cells at eBay for about $1.50/watt untabbed, or about $2.00/watt with tabbing ribbon attached. If cost is critical, you can even buy broken cells at eBay for about $1/watt, and they work fine. I went with untabbed, so the cells to make a 63 watt panel cost me about $100.

For the enclosure, I more or less followed this guide.

http://www.mdpub.com/SolarPanel/index.html

Here is what it looked like when I was done.










I'm not sure of the exact end cost because I bought a lot of extra tabbing, and I also bought some tools (multimeter & soldering iron), but I'm certain that I spent under $50 on the enclosure. With solar cells, that made a final cost of $125 to $150 for a 63 watt panel, or $2.00 to $2.50 per watt.



abamomma said:


> 2. How do we figure out the best place to put them? ie, roof, out in the yard, etc...


I opted to put them on a south-facing rack on the ground, since it would be easier to get to them. That may not always bea good idea, since you wouldn't want kids playing around them. You'll have to assess that for yourself.



abamomma said:


> 3. What else do we need to be prepared to purchase in order to get our home, or at least part of it, running on them


The biggest thing for me was to make lifestyle changes that used less power. That meant giving-up the microwave and toaster. You will want to heat (no blower), cook, and make hot water with gas for sure. Many off-grid people get a propane fridge, but I opted for a low-power electric fridge. Basically it's just trading the cost of extra solar panels for the cost of a propane fridge (they are pricey compared to electric).

I also use low power light bulbs (CF), a low current TV (70 watts), and switched to a laptop computer.



abamomma said:


> 4. How much total Watts do we need to purchase if we want our whole home running on it? How do we calculate this?


If you live the way I do, 400 watts of solar panels and 4 deep cycle batteries is more than sufficient. If you want to live off-grid without lifestyle changes then you need to prepare for the purchase of a few KW, which will certainly cost you tens of thousands of dollars. It pays big-time to adjust your lifestyle to the situation.


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## abamomma (Sep 14, 2007)

Ok - with what you all have been saying here, I have been doing a lot of rethinking of what we should do. 

First of all, we do not have the financial means right now to convert to propane...so that will have to be put on hold for a while. Nor would we be able to get a large amount of solar going here either.

My main concerns are what we would do in case of loss of power, and what can we do to lower our energy costs.

SO...this has brought me to a few conclusions... 
For heat, it would probably be best to just get the wood burning stove I have been wanting. For cooking in power outages we have our camp stove and a grill and fire pit

That leaves electricity for occasional appliance needs during power outages and for helping us save at least something on our electric bills.

So looking at it this way, would it do much for us to get one or a couple of 60W solar panels installed out here? Would we just connect them to particular outlets or something? I am researching on my own, but still getting lost in all the information.


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## wy_white_wolf (Oct 14, 2004)

Visit Solar Gary's site

www.builditsolar.com


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## Drew Cutter (Dec 30, 2008)

If you are worried about the occasional power outage . Get diesel generator . Need to get a 220 outlet for the outside . I believe their is one more piece of hardware needed. Doing solar would be allot money and extra equipment - more headache. 

As far southern hemisphere , i wasn't sure if that meant south of the equator or not. My bad.


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## trapperJim (Jan 24, 2008)

I can't answer any of the solar questions because I have no experience with it yet. We have talked about going off grid and may still do so but we consume so little power that it just hasn't made any sence to pursue it. Changing your habits can make a huge impact on your living expences and changing your habits doesn't mean you have to stumble around in a dark cold house. Here's our electric bill








Our base rate before usage is 16.21 so this bill shows that we consumed 11.73 worth of power simply by making adjustments in our living habits. We have a full size upright freezer, 2 lap tops, a large TV, Bose entertainment center, 10 jetted whirlpool tub etc. We live large for little money. Ya just gotta shut stuff off when you're not using them.

One thing that blows me away on this forum is the number of times that I read _"Maybe get a woodstove for power outages"_ . I always thought that heating and cooking with wood went hand & hand with homesteading but I'm finding it's a rarity even on my own forum. My question is... Why wait till a power outage to start cooking with a woodstove? 

During the cold months we cook about 85% of our food with wood, and that same fire is heating our water and heating our home. One fire serving 3 purposes. It only makes sence. The coldest I've seen it here is 38 below zero and the house stays toasty no matter what it's doing outside, and no rise in heating cost. Here's a few cooking task pics for you to consider.

*Here's a chicken baked at 375 in the Crawford oven and a treat baking at 325 in the Coleman tin box sitting on the top of the stove and one pot boiling and one pot simmerring. 2 ovens cooking at different temps and 2 pots going with no help from the power co.*









*Some more backwoods multitasking:
A pot of speghetti sauce simmerring for tonights supper, a venison stew for tomorrow and a bread for as fast as I can get the butter to it. All from one fire.*









*How about breakfast & biscuits?*
Hungry yet?









I could go on and on here but I won't. A woodstove is a wonderful thing and I will never be without one. Cutting your dependency on society and becoming self sufficient can be the best thing you can ever do for yourself and your family.


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## abamomma (Sep 14, 2007)

Oh TrapperJim! You make me so jealous!!! (where is a drooling smiley when you need one!)

If I had a cookstove I'm sure I would be using it like you do too!
I keep hoping we will just "run into" one for a cheap (or free) price!

I have wanted one since the day we moved into this house over 4 years ago.
We even have the perfect spot for it in our kitchen/diningroom. 

Any ideas of where to find an affordable one? (affordable for us is a few hundred dollars and the only ones I have been in the thousands!)

Edited to add...We have known of all kinds of things we could do to make a change here, and are doing the ones that we can. Unfortunately many of them either cost too much (which is so messed up - it costs too much money to get to a way of living with less????) or we have no idea HOW to do it where we are. We have even tried and failed with some. Many times I wish we could afford to get a piece of land and build our home on it the right way from the beginning instead of having to try to convert a house that was built COMPLETELY the WRONG way. For example...Even if we do get this house converted powerwise, we could still end up without water. Because even though we live in teh country, MILES from the nearest city, they still gave us CITY WATER!!!! Even in our last house which was in the city limits, we still had a well (along with the city water) attached to the house! Grrrr....the way they build houses today!


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## Nevada (Sep 9, 2004)

abamomma said:


> Any ideas of where to find an affordable one? (affordable for us is a few hundred dollars and the only ones I have been in the thousands!)


Actually a small cook & heat stove doesn't have to be expensive. Take a look at the Voglezang BX26E boxwood stove, with two burners.

http://www.vogelzang.com/bx26e.htm

It doesn't have an oven, but it's under $200. You can Google for it to see if you can get one locally. You don't want to pay for shipping for a cast iron stove, since it will double the price. It's like shipping an anvil.

Do It Best hardware stores will ship to their own stores for free, if you have a Do It Best locally. They are pretty much all over.

A word of warning though; the chimney pipe kits for wood stoves aren't cheap. You can find them at Lowes starting at around $500.


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## abamomma (Sep 14, 2007)

That one could definitely work, although I would prefer one with an oven.
But where are you seeing it for under $200? It does not appear that we would be able to get one locally, but I will do some calling tomorrow. The only one I actually found online from a seller was $330 plus $105 shipping.


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## mightybooboo (Feb 10, 2004)

Yep TrapperJim,thats the ticket for sure.Spent some time with a similar setup and its the Bee's Knee's,no 2 ways about it.


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## trapperJim (Jan 24, 2008)

You don't have to have an actual cook stove to cook on. A simple box stove can work just fine once you get the knack for it. The little coleman tin box oven that is sitting on top of my crawford is actually meant to sit on a propane burner camp stove. Coleman still sells them for around 30.00 .

I use mine on top of my woodstove and it'll bake a whole chicken or bread just fine. 
Here it is doing a fine job on a Spinach pesto lasagna:bouncy:


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## Nevada (Sep 9, 2004)

abamomma said:


> That one could definitely work, although I would prefer one with an oven.
> But where are you seeing it for under $200? It does not appear that we would be able to get one locally, but I will do some calling tomorrow. The only one I actually found online from a seller was $330 plus $105 shipping.


Just a few months ago these were available for $150 all over, but the price seems to have gone up to the $200-$225 range. Here's one for $150 though, but it might be an older ad.

http://www.ronshomeandhardware.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=292086&click=1014


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## abamomma (Sep 14, 2007)

Thank you for the information on the box oven. I will definitely finding me one of those!

You're pictures are still making me DROOL!!!!!

Thank you again Nevada for helping me find a more affordable stove too.

We have now decided to get the deluxe boxwood stove from Vogelzang since it can heat up to 1200 square feet where as the smaller one only heats up to 800. Our house is built long with the bedrooms all the way to the end. I want to make sure that the heat will get back there too. 

It looks like, when we are ready for it we should be able to get it for about $440 from an area DoitBest store. A little more than we have hoped, but since it would be able to heat the whole house I think it is worth it. I will also be keeping my eyes open for it from other places for cheaper.

I am now researching the prices for all the other supplies we will need to get it installed, such as fireproofing for the walls, triple lined flue pipe and parts, fireproof something for it to set on, etc... That way we can get the money saved up and have it ready and installed by this Fall! I am SO excited!!!

Back to the solar question...I was looking at the idea of building a solar generator instead of a diesel one (in case we cannot get the fuel) I found multiple plans that look pretty simple (not like the building your own solar panels ones). I was hoping that with this generator I would be able to maybe run a few different things if we wanted to use them like my electric grain grinder (Whisper Mill), but I know with it having a motor it draws more amps right? 

Here is one of the many plans I have found: 
http://www.i4at.org/surv/solargen.htm

Do you think it would be possible to run it with a small solar generator like this???

That is the one electric thing I really am hooked on. We only use fresh ground flours and I have an old cast iron manual grinder, but it is extremely difficult for me to get my fine flours from it. It would only work for bread flour. My point in all of this is that I would like to make sure that if we build a generator it would at least be able to run the grinder as well as other smaller misc. things if we wanted to. To me it makes more sense to put the money into a generator since it can do so much more, than in purchasing a third grinder.

It would be nice to be able to run my Vitamix and GreenStar juicer occasionally too!


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## trapperJim (Jan 24, 2008)

Too bad I didn't see this thread a week ago because I just went through the roof of my barn with a metalbestos chimney. I could have taken a step by step tutorial for ya.


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## Nevada (Sep 9, 2004)

abamomma said:


> My point in all of this is that I would like to make sure that if we build a generator it would at least be able to run the grinder as well as other smaller misc. things if we wanted to. To me it makes more sense to put the money into a generator since it can do so much more, than in purchasing a third grinder.
> 
> It would be nice to be able to run my Vitamix and GreenStar juicer occasionally too!


I don't see why you can't run those things, as long as your inverter can handle the load. Just check the watts or amps to see what the draw is on each appliance, then buy the appropriate inverter.

You can look at inverters and deep cycle batteries at Walmart. I've had good luck with their Ever Start deep cycle battery. Last I looked they were about $70, but be sure to scrounge-up a dead battery to bring in for trade. Otherwise they'll charge you a $10 core charge.

If you look in the area where the battery chargers are, you'll find the inverters. Walmart carries Black & Decker inverters. You might consider the 700 watt model. Without the appliances you could probably do the 400 watt, but I suspect you'll need to 700 watt. I like the Black & Decker because the fan only runs when you need it. A lot of the modified sine wave inverters have fans that run all the time and wear out.


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## gwest (Oct 9, 2008)

abamomma,
I also love the way trapperJim uses his resources,I was a very young kid the last time I saw someone cooking this way. As far as your off grid problem is, I recommend a visit to Solar Gary's website, builditsolar.com. There you can find a wealth of info on just about any alternate energy related issue. For solar electric panels I myself would take the advice of Drew Cutter and have a company tie into your existing electric. I think mightybooboo knows where to get good panels. I myself checked out BP.com they have some nice stuff. You'll have to decide if you want to build yourself or purchase something that has a warranty. For heat only,solar heating collectors work great I've built a few I use myself and they can be mounted on a south facing wall,on your roof,at an angle in the yard or attached to your house,to many ways to mention. You can also store the heat from them. Also you could heat your house with solar heated water. Gary has a great article on that at his website. Just throwing some ideas to you. By the way I live in NW Georgia.
gwest


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## abamomma (Sep 14, 2007)

Thanks a bunch Gwest for all your ideas!
I will definitely be checking them all out.
I was given a cd-rom disc that is alternative energy articles from Backwoods Home so I am hoping I find some good stuff in there too.
I am getting very anxious to actually get started!


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