# When 43% of Americans Can’t Pay for Food and Rent,



## nehimama (Jun 18, 2005)

I find this article very sobering, and a little frightening:

https://www.theorganicprepper.com/americans-rent-food-economic-collapse/

The point of the article wasn't really that jobs are tough to find. It's rather that jobs aren't paying enough to live on. Says so in the headline "43 percent of Americans can't pay for food and rent at the same time." They HAVE jobs, it's that the jobs aren't paying.


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## flewism (Apr 2, 2007)

The only way for wages to go up is to limit the amount of people that can do that job, then demand for those people will increase.

Nobody in our two party dictatorship is actually willing to do that.


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## Oregon1986 (Apr 25, 2017)

It's really sad isn't it?


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## Road Runner (Aug 31, 2017)

Same thing is happening in Australia. There are calls to increase the pension and wefare by $50 per week but I don't think that will solve the problem. The gooberment here just isn't doing enough to help those in need.

RR


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## hiddensprings (Aug 6, 2009)

I see a lot of people working “jobs that don’t pay enough”....but those jobs were never meant for adults to support a family on. I mean, working in a fast food place use to be where teenagers worked after school. Same with retail stores and other unskilled labor. Now we have unskilled laborers who complain about not getting paid enough to do a kids job. This problem is a combination of many things IMO. We have kids that graduate from high school that aren’t prepared for college because they can’t string two sentences together and make sense. We have these same kids going to college on loans they can’t afford to pay back to get a degree that means nothing. THe biggest problem I see is with Higher Education. This corporate giant sells kids a story about how much money they’ll make with a degree in computer technology if they’ll only pay hundreds of thousands of dollars to get the degree.....then American Corporations have to hire people from FOREIGN countries to do the work because the U.S. colleges taught the U.S. students nada.


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## Wolf mom (Mar 8, 2005)

Yes - what hiddensprings said is true regarding fast food places, unskilled labor, grocery store baggers, etc. Those jobs were beginning jobs that taught kids how to work. On the job job training.. The second part of that equation is the hype that has taught people that some jobs are too menial for them to do. You know - that's why we have illegal immigrants to do the work we won't do.....This whole thing is twisted hype. 
And why work and try to save when the government believes in cradle to grave dependency?


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## damoc (Jul 14, 2007)

This will always be the case when money can be printed out of thin air.If any minimun wage is to have any meaning it has to be backed by something and purchasing power cannot be changing by the minute at the whim of banks and government.

THE END


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## survival49 (May 6, 2018)

You are so wrong when comes to retail, I am assistant store manager at a HomeDepot. I started at 10.00 an hour as an associate in flooring. 3 months later I was offered a flooring specialist position at 13.50an hrs. At 9 months I was a department supervisor at 15.50 an hr. I now make about 62,000 and if we have a good success share 78,000. Retail sucks, but it is what you make it. You don’t have to sell your soul, but you do have to make some tough choices. But being retired military this nothing new and I had a cushion. I so called kids are not prepared because of a bad system, parents that don’t spend the time. Schools that don’t teach, and that includes your average college or university. If you don’t have the motivation and the understanding of failure why should you be successful. Life is a challenge, not a privilege. It’s hard, cruel and predatory. My whole life was base on preparing my two daughters to succeed and it’s still not decided. Work in progress.


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## HillsOfSWVA (Jan 14, 2018)

So much wrong with this world.. it is mostly about greed, that is the root of the majority of our problems. Many of us work a dead end job for crappy employers who are more worried about their own bottom line than their employees being able to pay their bills. I have worked in construction for over a decade and still have not found a good place to work for and it's hard to work for yourself, by yourself... And nobody pays decent wages.
That's one of the biggest reasons I want to keep building my homestead to be self sufficient so one day I can totally unplug from society


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## barnbilder (Jul 1, 2005)

If anybody can't pay for food and rent right now, they have only themselves to blame. Every place you drive by has a help wanted sign. There are no ghouls that come for you with a reaping sickle if you go over 40 hours in a week either, well the IRS, but you can work two or more jobs, unless you want to hide behind excuses instead of climbing over obstacles. Fast food is starting people at $11 an hour around here. And that should be an entry level job that no one should expect to make a living wage doing. Minimum wage is a moot point, just call your employees "interns" and make them pay you for the joy of being your employee. There are lots of people happy to work for less than minimum wage, most of them are farmers.

I pay a guy fifteen bucks an hour to put up hay and set around in the shade drinking water, I own this establishment and all I get out of it is a warm meal when I have time to reheat it, a new carhart jacket every five years and all the tobacco I can chew.


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## HillsOfSWVA (Jan 14, 2018)

barnbilder said:


> If anybody can't pay for food and rent right now, they have only themselves to blame. Every place you drive by has a help wanted sign. There are no ghouls that come for you with a reaping sickle if you go over 40 hours in a week either, well the IRS, but you can work two or more jobs, unless you want to hide behind excuses instead of climbing over obstacles. Fast food is starting people at $11 an hour around here. And that should be an entry level job that no one should expect to make a living wage doing. Minimum wage is a moot point, just call your employees "interns" and make them pay you for the joy of being your employee. There are lots of people happy to work for less than minimum wage, most of them are farmers.
> 
> I pay a guy fifteen bucks an hour to put up hay and set around in the shade drinking water, I own this establishment and all I get out of it is a warm meal when I have time to reheat it, a new carhart jacket every five years and all the tobacco I can chew.


I can barely pay for my needs working a 40hr week. I sure as heck ain't going to get another second job.. it's all that I can do to work my regular job, help a few people on the side occasionally, and take care of my own farm. Its just tough to make it..
I take it a little personal that you said that people hide behind excuses instead of climbing over obstacles. You don't know what obstacles others have had to climb over or what they have climbed over to get this far. We all live very different lives and have very different problems.. cheers if you are comfortable and enjoying life, but some of us don't have all the pieces to the puzzle yet. It's not always as easy as going out and working your life away to pay "the man".. and I'm glad that it's not because how boring would that be?


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## barnbilder (Jul 1, 2005)

If you are farming, you need to understand that it is a luxury. Some make yacht payments, other people pay for expensive country club memberships, while some people farm. If you can't pay the bills, in any of those cases, maybe it is time to let go of some luxuries. Property is a good investment, sure, but farming that property is sometimes not a sound economic decision. Could someone pay you rent maybe? Someone that hasn't learned yet that they will be poor as long as they try to farm? It could free up some time for a second or third job.


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## AmericanStand (Jul 29, 2014)

Theres a saying in the trucking industry.
"every Backhaul is somebody's front haul."

Do you think adults take kids cheap jobs just to spite kids? No they take them because that's all they can get.
Its supply and demand all right and as long as there is a supply of cheap labor from illegal immigrants there's no need for decent wages.
With the unions nearly dried up and gone the average working joe is pretty much at the mercy of big business.
And they don't have any.


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## HillsOfSWVA (Jan 14, 2018)

barnbilder said:


> If you are farming, you need to understand that it is a luxury. Some make yacht payments, other people pay for expensive country club memberships, while some people farm. If you can't pay the bills, in any of those cases, maybe it is time to let go of some luxuries. Property is a good investment, sure, but farming that property is sometimes not a sound economic decision. Could someone pay you rent maybe? Someone that hasn't learned yet that they will be poor as long as they try to farm? It could free up some time for a second or third job.


Ha like I said.. you don't know what obstacles I have or what I have overcame. You don't know my situation and I don't care to share it. I don't want to be a slave to the almighty dollar. I just wanted to let you shouldn't be so quick to throw judgement. 

It is a fact that most people do not make enough money to be comfortable. If they are not, it could be for a number of reasons.. so no need to think one way and one way only. 

I understand what you're saying about giving up farming.. but that is the last thing that I want to do. This life ain't easy, and it ain't gonna get any easier for lots of reasons for lots of folks.

In my case, it's not easy to start out with nothing and with no help and a crappy paying job.. but once I get through the toughest part of it, things will be ok. I don't have anything from my family and neither does my wife. We just keep our nose to the grindstone and stay focused on the light at the end of the tunnel.

This crappy world that we live in doesn't help anything either! That's no excuse, just facts.


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## HillsOfSWVA (Jan 14, 2018)

barnbilder said:


> If you are farming, you need to understand that it is a luxury. Some make yacht payments, other people pay for expensive country club memberships, while some people farm. If you can't pay the bills, in any of those cases, maybe it is time to let go of some luxuries. Property is a good investment, sure, but farming that property is sometimes not a sound economic decision. Could someone pay you rent maybe? Someone that hasn't learned yet that they will be poor as long as they try to farm? It could free up some time for a second or third job.


And farming definitely does not compare in any way at all to yacht payments or country club memberships


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## damoc (Jul 14, 2007)

barnbilder said:


> If you are farming, you need to understand that it is a luxury. Some make yacht payments, other people pay for expensive country club memberships, while some people farm. If you can't pay the bills, in any of those cases, maybe it is time to let go of some luxuries. Property is a good investment, sure, but farming that property is sometimes not a sound economic decision. Could someone pay you rent maybe? Someone that hasn't learned yet that they will be poor as long as they try to farm? It could free up some time for a second or third job.


Maybe farming is a luxury now but that doesn't make it right and i would argue that its cheap oil,funny money and crooks in government that cause it to be that way.just got to look into farm subsidies to realise that something is wrong.


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## Prismseed (Sep 14, 2009)

@barnbilder I could be wrong but I suspect you live in an area with less population than there is job demand.
Your local economy sounds strong, I emphasize local as the situation varies for different areas.




barnbilder said:


> Every place you drive by has a help wanted sign.


There is a very big difference between 'Help wanted' and 'Accepting Applications' Around here there is far less help wanted and far more accepting applications. Accepting Applications means they are collecting interested people to replace high turnover jobs.



barnbilder said:


> Fast food is starting people at $11 an hour around here.


$8.25 here but they also don't give many 40hr positions. It is more 'effective' to spread 40 hours between 2-3 people than it is to give it to only one. Much easier to cover sick time, emergencies, quitters, firings and such. People miss out on full time so the business can have it easy and offer less benefits. Add to that many part time jobs require flexible schedules, which makes coordinating a second job difficult, mixing two part time jobs with kids or college and is -extremely- difficult.


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## AmericanStand (Jul 29, 2014)

HillsOfSWVA said:


> And farming definitely does not compare in any way at all to yacht payments


REALLY? Have you done both?
They seem nearly identical to me.
Lots of work sometimes a little cash and some good times.
But the kids love it.


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## HillsOfSWVA (Jan 14, 2018)

AmericanStand said:


> REALLY? Have you done both?
> They seem nearly identical to me.
> Lots of work sometimes a little cash and some good times.
> But the kids love it.


Haha nope.. I don't come from money.. just a poor ol white boy slaving away for the man.
I don't see any profit from either a country club or a yacht tho. If done correctly, there's a small profit from farming! Haha


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## GTX63 (Dec 13, 2016)

For many people, running a small farm or "homestead" is just as much about freedom and lifestyle choice, or more, as it is about money. Choosing how they define success over consumerism.
I see a nation trending in which segments of society are falling into the gears of government driven policies and agendas. Some corporations are willing partners, others go along to get along, but in the end it is our own fellow Americans who follow empty words and promises down dead end alleys that they cannot turn out of.


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## MELQ (Feb 27, 2011)

I see a lack of motivation in people nowadays.Its a " i dont wanna society". I work in a job making $24+ per hr with benefits,good retirement and all the overtime if I choose but when we have job openings no one wants to apply because they find out they would have to work nights, weekends or holidays.


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## mnn2501 (Apr 2, 2008)

> "43 percent of Americans can't pay for food and rent at the same time."


I don't buy it, what we have is a failure to manage money and to know the difference between a want and a need. When people have the latest (take your pick) iPhone, tennis shoes, clothes, hairdo, nails done, tattoo, etc. When they have cable TV, credit card debt, etc, the problem is they don't know how to manage their money.

We also have government throwing money at education that most people going to college shouldn't be taking. Beside Government, I blame lazy HR people and managers at large corporation for that fiasco - using a 4 year degree as a weeding tool for a job that really doesn't need it. I saw an ad last year for a job that paid $14 an hour requiring a 4 year degree -- No Way!!


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## emdeengee (Apr 20, 2010)

This is the fallacy of corporate and government propaganda. They always say it is the fault of the poor. This even went on during Victorian times. There are lazy poor people but most are working their butts off just trying to survive and now the middle class is finding out what this is like. Americans are losing their middle class because their incomes are not keeping up with inflation so the poor class is growing. And without a strong middle class no country does well. That is why the US was so successful - it had a huge middle class. But now the income divide between the rich and the middle class is so unbalanced that people have no chance to go for the American dream. You actually have a better chance for the American dream in Canada. 

I have all the records of our personal finances dating back 10 years and can see exactly how the cost of living for every item has increased and how we have had to increase our income just to keep up even after all the frugal economies. People are being conned. No such thing as a trickle down economy. Corporations are making tens of billions in profit and none of it is going down to the workers. Trump,s big tax cuts have not improved the average income as corporations gave out token wage increases or bonuses and have done nothing expand. 

This is not the first time this has happened in the US and many other countries and eventually people have enough - especially when it affects their kids.


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## Danaus29 (Sep 12, 2005)

Around here there are "help wanted" signs everywhere. But that doesn't mean the store is hiring. I also see a lot of ads requiring years of experience for entry level jobs that pay minimum wage. 

I've seen those ads for jobs requiring a 4 year degree. Most pay barely more than minimum wage. 

We have a huge immigrant population here. In several stores you have to learn to speak another language just to order something or ask a question. People who are bilingual get top pick of all the jobs and most people who are bilingual are immigrants.


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## survival49 (May 6, 2018)

On why part time versus full time it’s none of those. Part timers don’t get medical benefits, overtime and half the holiday pay ( 4 versus 8 ) and that includes vacation time. You are right on spreading the 40 hrs, only because it give businesses better scheduling flexibility and less breaks.


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## Danaus29 (Sep 12, 2005)

Part time or not, if you work more than 40 hours in a work week the employer is required to pay overtime. Employers are not required to offer holiday pay or vacation pay. I worked 8 years as a part time temp. One agency paid time and a half for holidays worked. The other did not offer holiday or any vacation pay, even to full time temps. 2 or 3 people to cover the jobs typically held by a single person are much cheaper than using a single person. I know of a newspaper that went to mostly part time employees so they wouldn't have to pay holidays or benefits.


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## Murby (May 24, 2016)

They should do a study on the 43% who can't afford food. 

Q1) How much food have your grown yourself since accepting welfare? 
Q2) Have you ever analyzed the nutritional and calorie count of the foods you're allowed to purchase and then maximized your expenditures based on the most economical results?
Q3) Do you repair your own clothes or just purchase new clothing?
Q4) At what temperature do you keep your home during the winter?
Q5) Do you use air conditioning in the summer and at what temperature do you set it for?
Q5a) When was the last time you cleaned the air filter in your furnace?
Q6) Do you know exactly how much tooth paste you use per year? How much soap? How much Shampoo?
Q7) What is the current pressure in your vehicle's tires?


When money isn't an issue, you can waste it all you like, but when someone claims they can't even afford to feed themselves and they seek assistance from society, they should know, with relative scientific precision, how many resources they are using, how they can reduce their consumption of those resources, and how they can create their own resources.

Heck, I don't have money problems and I know exactly how much stuff I use every year. We write the date on every bottle when we start using it.. every tube of toothpaste, every bottle of shampoo, dish soap, laundry detergent, and I even monitor our exact power usage on a daily basis. 

And I don't have any money problems.. I could turn on every light bulb in my home 24/7 and the resulting power bill wouldn't phase me one bit.. and that was before the solar system was installed.

We rinse our shampoo bottles out with water to get the last few milliliters of soap out of them.. Turn the catsup bottles upside down in the frig so it all runs down. I use a dowel rod to roll and squeeze the last bit of tooth paste out.. we use a 1/2 pump of shampoo instead of a whole pump.. and we pay attention to how we do laundry and how much soap is needed. 

People aren't just poor or incapable of feeding themselves because they don't make much money.. they are also very wasteful, and the combination of the two could sink almost any ship.

When I bought my first home, I kept the winter thermostat at 70 degrees.. After a bit of research and some quick math, I turned it down to 62 degrees and 58 at night when sleeping. In the hot summer, I didn't turn it on until the outside temps hit 88 degrees with high humidity.. and then I would set it at 74.. I started setting it at 80 degrees because I realized I didn't need it to be super cool in the house, removing the humidity was more important. 
That one move controlling the thermostat alone saved me enough money to make an entire mortgage payment each year.. An entire month of basically free living from thin air (pun intended), just for doing a better job controlling my thermostat. 

You'd be amazed at how much money can be saved by paying close attention to your own consumption and learning how to minimize it.


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## barnbilder (Jul 1, 2005)

HillsOfSWVA said:


> Haha nope.. I don't come from money.. just a poor ol white boy slaving away for the man.
> I don't see any profit from either a country club or a yacht tho. If done correctly, there's a small profit from farming! Haha


I can make more cash in ten minutes networking at the country club than I can make in ten years of farming. Farms are best for losing money, not making it anyway. If you are trying to make money farming, and every one else is farming to lose money (and have nice toys) it is going to be an uphill struggle for you.


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## melli (May 7, 2016)

In respect to the 'article', her analogies are suspect. Greece was KO'd by it's own government unwilling to stop flashing the credit card. That is, they were spending way more than they could earn. Venezuela, another example, went under because the Socialist regime made it so. The author suggests protectionism (tariffs) as a way to solve the wage issue. I know of current nor historical instance of a country succeeding (long term) by taking on an isolationist policy. 
Being an outsider (sort of), America is a dichotomy. On one hand, your the world's largest GDP producer. That means you produce something....and a lot of it. 
On the other hand, you have the world's largest debt. This 'might' stem from your penchant for spending a boatload of cash (10x nearest rival) on military. You seem to like that role (world cop, if it is in your 'interest'). A country eventually 'settles' down, because eventually, they run out of money (even fake money). 
All middle class jobs, all over the developed world, are under duress, because there is some schmuck willing to do it for less in a developing country. 
Not sure about debt overhang, but America is pretty good about evolving because relative to other developed countries, they have less red tape (more employee churn). 
The problem I see is lack of domestic consumption of domestic products. While Americans, and Canadians are crazy consumers, we are buying foreign stuff. Money leaves the country. When money leaves, it means less to rotate, through the domestic economy. Those middle class jobs of past, are gone, shipped overseas (along with unions). With a large chunk of your population in dire straits, and suspect medical coverage, well, they ain't going nowhere. 
The world pie is getting smaller, and everybody is hungry. The only way to stay above ground, is to be smarter, and more agile. Reminds me of the UK/Germany. They had it all, much by force. Then they both hit rock bottom after WW2. They evolved, and seem to be doing well. Interestingly, German and UK forces are relatively small to US. I think Germany is an ideal example of a country that works hard to getting folks into the labor force (especially young kids). 
43% of population working non-sustainable low paying jobs is a large chunk. Thing is, someone needs those jobs (employers). If they didn't, they wouldn't have signs up or be in business. You pretty much have to make your own business nowadays or get a high value education (includes trades in demand). The days of those union jobs are long gone. I am old enough to remember the union downsizing era. Heck, even while working at a union job while going through school, I was bought out, and replaced with a minimal wage job. It was perfect timing for me, as I was about to quit since I was already working for a multi-national in my field. That was sweet of them...albeit, not for the poor schmuck who took my job. I think that is one of the biggest problems nowadays...path to something meaningful is full of debt. Or at very least, is ridden with lots of hurdles. I think the one thing the author nailed was the widening gap between rich and poor. When that bridge becomes unassailable, things get messy.

I do ramble, but this article shows where we are headed...
https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2018/06/the-birth-of-a-new-american-aristocracy/559130/

I feel so fortunate..."median net worth of African American family in Boston, in 2015, was $8!"


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## AmericanStand (Jul 29, 2014)

HillsOfSWVA said:


> Haha nope.. I don't come from money.. just a poor ol white boy slaving away for the man.
> I don't see any profit from either a country club or a yacht tho. If done correctly, there's a small profit from farming! Haha


 Then where did you get the money to farm? Probably the same place I got the money for a yacht. working for the man.
Not really my fault you cant see the profit in a yacht but If I can rent mine out for 2 weeks TOTAL it pays for my cash investment. Needless to say It paid itself off years ago.
Can your farm do that? My first farm will pay itself off in about 35 years total. Farms were poor investments in the early 80s but you needed them to farm. Wish Id waited till the late 80s.


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## HillsOfSWVA (Jan 14, 2018)

barnbilder said:


> I can make more cash in ten minutes networking at the country club than I can make in ten years of farming. Farms are best for losing money, not making it anyway. If you are trying to make money farming, and every one else is farming to lose money (and have nice toys) it is going to be an uphill struggle for you.


Glad you're having success. I don't care about "nice toys" or the almighty dollar.. I just want to pay my bills and continue growing my homestead so I can escape society.


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## HillsOfSWVA (Jan 14, 2018)

AmericanStand said:


> Then where did you get the money to farm? Probably the same place I got the money for a yacht. working for the man.
> Not really my fault you cant see the profit in a yacht but If I can rent mine out for 2 weeks TOTAL it pays for my cash investment. Needless to say It paid itself off years ago.
> Can your farm do that? My first farm will pay itself off in about 35 years total. Farms were poor investments in the early 80s but you needed them to farm. Wish Id waited till the late 80s.


I don't plan on going into the yacht business, but glad you're successful. My homestead/farm isn't far enough along to start turning a profit and I don't care if it does really.. sure, it would be nice. I'm happy eating good food that is homegrown even if it's more work/money than buying crap from the store. I live in a really poor area and there is very little opportunity to make good money. I'll just keeping doing what I'm doing and hope that it all works out in time.


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## muleskinner2 (Oct 7, 2007)

barnbilder said:


> If anybody can't pay for food and rent right now, they have only themselves to blame. Every place you drive by has a help wanted sign. There are no ghouls that come for you with a reaping sickle if you go over 40 hours in a week either, well the IRS, but you can work two or more jobs, unless you want to hide behind excuses instead of climbing over obstacles. Fast food is starting people at $11 an hour around here. And that should be an entry level job that no one should expect to make a living wage doing. Minimum wage is a moot point, just call your employees "interns" and make them pay you for the joy of being your employee. There are lots of people happy to work for less than minimum wage, most of them are farmers.
> 
> I pay a guy fifteen bucks an hour to put up hay and set around in the shade drinking water, I own this establishment and all I get out of it is a warm meal when I have time to reheat it, a new carhart jacket every five years and all the tobacco I can chew.


Everything he just said.

Muleskinner2


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## Kiamichi Kid (Apr 9, 2009)

mnn2501 said:


> I don't buy it, what we have is a failure to manage money and to know the difference between a want and a need. When people have the latest (take your pick) iPhone, tennis shoes, clothes, hairdo, nails done, tattoo, etc. When they have cable TV, credit card debt, etc, the problem is they don't know how to manage their money.
> 
> We also have government throwing money at education that most people going to college shouldn't be taking. Beside Government, I blame lazy HR people and managers at large corporation for that fiasco - using a 4 year degree as a weeding tool for a job that really doesn't need it. I saw an ad last year for a job that paid $14 an hour requiring a 4 year degree -- No Way!!


Exactly....


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## frogmammy (Dec 8, 2004)

This may not fit in at ALL, but....fifty years ago I was raising a child by myself. I worked part time jobs because they paid more, per hour, than a full time job. Actually, I worked three part time jobs, so I could go to college.

Thing was, at that time even full time employees did not have employer paid health insurance, maternity leave, retirement matching, or even retirement plans, and such. I paid our own medical bills, supported myself and daughter with no help from the government. Minimum wage,where I lived at that time, was $1.10 an hour. It could be tight at times, but we made it.

Today, I think everyone expects too much, and they expect OTHERS to provide it. Not happy at your job? It's NOT your bosses job to make you happy. Not paid enough? It's not your bosses place to pay you what you think you're worth, not is it likely your boss will adopt you to raise. 

You think you should have a nicer house when you don't have the money to pay for one? Quit getting massages every week and pedicures, MAKE your house nicer yourself.

I could go on, but...*I* am responsible for my happiness, my satisfaction, not you, not my neighbor, not the government, not my boss.

Mon


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## muleskinner2 (Oct 7, 2007)

frogmammy said:


> This may not fit in at ALL, but....fifty years ago I was raising a child by myself. I worked part time jobs because they paid more, per hour, than a full time job. Actually, I worked three part time jobs, so I could go to college.
> 
> Thing was, at that time even full time employees did not have employer paid health insurance, maternity leave, retirement matching, or even retirement plans, and such. I paid our own medical bills, supported myself and daughter with no help from the government. Minimum wage,where I lived at that time, was $1.10 an hour. It could be tight at times, but we made it.
> 
> ...


Yep.

Muleskinner2


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## Kiamichi Kid (Apr 9, 2009)

frogmammy said:


> This may not fit in at ALL, but....fifty years ago I was raising a child by myself. I worked part time jobs because they paid more, per hour, than a full time job. Actually, I worked three part time jobs, so I could go to college.
> 
> Thing was, at that time even full time employees did not have employer paid health insurance, maternity leave, retirement matching, or even retirement plans, and such. I paid our own medical bills, supported myself and daughter with no help from the government. Minimum wage,where I lived at that time, was $1.10 an hour. It could be tight at times, but we made it.
> 
> ...


I grew up "Dirt Poor"...and have never had much in the way of material wealth...However I've lived a happy life and raised two awesome young men (as a single father) on far below what's considered "Poverty Level" income.....Knowing the difference between what is needed and wanted and setting priorities were both key to my success.If I really needed something I'd make it myself if possible ..then I'd barter and then if all else failed I'd save the money and buy it with cash. Every house I've ever owned I've built with my own two hands..from the ground up... and one nail at a time...My sons have a great work ethic,earned full ride scholarships and graduated from both High School and University with Honors...I say that we make our own luck....


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## Bungiex88 (Jan 2, 2016)

HillsOfSWVA said:


> And farming definitely does not compare in any way at all to yacht payments or country club memberships


Yea real farming is not a luxury. Homestead farming is a luxury. When I say real farming I mean couple hundred acres lots a big equipment.


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## GTX63 (Dec 13, 2016)

Would homeschooling your kids be considered a luxury?
Real farming is a job and a means of provision; homestead farming while supporting it with off site jobs may be a luxury, meybe not. That is debatable. True homestead farming is a lifestyle choice.
Many folks paying the bills to "homestead" are sitting at farmer's markets on the weekends or with roadside stands. They sell $2 a dozen eggs and rabbit meat, breeding goats, boarding horses, selling wares or crafts on Craiglist or Ebay. Part time welders, blacksmiths, mechanics working out of their barns. You see many online doing youtube. If that is considered by most of America "getting rich" or a luxury, then what would be considered to be a middle or low income homesteader?


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## wdcutrsdaughter (Dec 9, 2012)

Murby said:


> They should do a study on the 43% who can't afford food.
> 
> Q1) How much food have your grown yourself since accepting welfare?
> Q2) Have you ever analyzed the nutritional and calorie count of the foods you're allowed to purchase and then maximized your expenditures based on the most economical results?
> ...



THIS.... you inspire me. Funny you mentioned marking the date on things when you open them because I had the inclination to do that lately. I am going to follow my instinct now thanks to your inspiring post. I already add water to shampoo/conditioner and roll the toothpaste tube


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## frogmammy (Dec 8, 2004)

I'm thinking that a neighbor might be one of that 43%. Heard her complaining that a new apartment complex going up was unfair, mainly because they wouldn't accept her section 8 voucher. She said, that poor people like hot tubs and swimming pools too, and it was unfair for them to discriminate against her just because she had a low income.

A week later, she's asking around about a place to get a GOOD mani-pedi, and by the way, where to go for a good massage?

And I'm thinking, there goes the hot tub and swimming pool!

Now we have Lime bikes (OFO, and the like) in the city for cheap transportation...maybe to help that 43% who probably can't afford to buy a bicycle to get around on. Just $1.00 for 30 minutes! Do the math and figure out the cost of used or cheap bikes, and how much you're going to be spending on a bike that is NOT yours. One of the big selling points on the bikes is "think how much you WON'T have to spend on maintenance!" Excuse me? It's not a Maserati.

People will be nickle and dimed because they reufse to look forward, past the second they exist in.

Mon


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## mekasmom (Jan 19, 2010)

nehimama said:


> I find this article very sobering, and a little frightening:
> 
> https://www.theorganicprepper.com/americans-rent-food-economic-collapse/


The Trump Legacy...... People are in pain and need right now. I don't know the answer, but we need to care about people.


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## mnn2501 (Apr 2, 2008)

mekasmom said:


> The Trump Legacy...... People are in pain and need right now. I don't know the answer, but we need to care about people.


I am all for Charity, there's a saying - charity STARTS at Home - show me you are doing everything you can first, then I'll be happy to throw in some $$.

When I was much younger I managed restaurants - mainly fast food places. I had one woman tell me I wasn't paying her enough to get by. Yet she got a new Tattoo every few months, always had a hairdo that she went to a beauty parlor for, had her nails done professionally at least every few weeks, and she had a newer car than I did. Yet I wasn't paying her enough to "get by"

Many people need to learn the difference between wants and needs.


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## HermitJohn (May 10, 2002)

"_Qu'ils mangent de la brioche_"


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## HermitJohn (May 10, 2002)

mnn2501 said:


> Many people need to learn the difference between wants and needs.


Including those paying a non living wage.


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## mnn2501 (Apr 2, 2008)

HermitJohn said:


> Including those paying a non living wage.


I knew the difference between wants and needs, my employee however did not.


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## HermitJohn (May 10, 2002)

Did you know the difference between your employee's needs and wants. Did he make enough to realistically live in that community? Or did you just pay absolute least possible to get a warm body, and if he has to live under a bridge or in his car, tough toenails...

There are already many communities where they have to bus people in three hour each way to man the service industries. At a price they want to pay cause what they pay isnt enough to even minimally live in the community or even closer than three hour away. I remember that hour schoolbus ride each way (I was one of first on bus in rural area) back when I was going to school and the buses had to dodge the dinosaurs. I truly cant imagine riding on a bus 6 hour a day plus doing 8 hour job.




mnn2501 said:


> I knew the difference between wants and needs, my employee however did not.


e


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## muleskinner2 (Oct 7, 2007)

nehimama said:


> I find this article very sobering, and a little frightening:
> 
> https://www.theorganicprepper.com/americans-rent-food-economic-collapse/
> 
> The point of the article wasn't really that jobs are tough to find. It's rather that jobs aren't paying enough to live on. Says so in the headline "43 percent of Americans can't pay for food and rent at the same time." They HAVE jobs, it's that the jobs aren't paying.


I bet they have enough money for beer and smokes.


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## mnn2501 (Apr 2, 2008)

HermitJohn said:


> Did you know the difference between your employee's needs and wants. Did he make enough to realistically live in that community? Or did you just pay absolute least possible to get a warm body, and if he has to live under a bridge or in his car, tough toenails...
> There are already many communities where they have to bus people in three hour each way to man the service industries. At a price they want to pay cause what they pay isnt enough to even minimally live in the community or even closer than three hour away. I remember that hour schoolbus ride each way (I was one of first on bus in rural area) back when I was going to school and the buses had to dodge the dinosaurs. I truly cant imagine riding on a bus 6 hour a day plus doing 8 hour job.
> e


You liberals are a hoot. I paid what the going rate for the type of work was plus raises based on performance and time on the job, and I paid well.

But you liberals think that working as a cashier or a line person in a fast food restaurant is supposed to pay not only for; rent, utilities, food, a car, insurance but also for tattoo's, fancy salon hairdo's (really you should have seen what she came in with at times) Mani-Pedis every couple weeks, $200 tennis shoes, a cell phone (back when they first came out) and whatever else she wanted? - Oh and she lived in an apartment about 4 miles away and had a car, not 3 hours.


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## miggyb (May 2, 2015)

HermitJohn said:


> "_Qu'ils mangent de la brioche_"


Careful. That..did not end well,for her.


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## damoc (Jul 14, 2007)

All minimum wage is pretty much meaningless when inflation is robbing everyone.
There are a lot of people either people learning a skill or needing a lot of encouragement to turn up to work that are
not worth the minimum wage in the first place.
Everyone has to start somewhere and a guarantee of income does nothing to keep people employed and learning skills that will
benefit them in the future.
BTW when I moved back to the USA I worked for minimum and lived in my vehical in the parking lot of where I worked and later a trailer on premisis and was soon earning a very good wage because they appreciated my effort and willingness to learn by the time I left that job I was earning 5 times minimum and had learned commercial truck driving and many other skills.not to mention it was one of the most memorable times of my life.


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## HermitJohn (May 10, 2002)

mnn2501 said:


> You liberals are a hoot. I paid what the going rate for the type of work was plus raises based on performance and time on the job, and I paid well.
> 
> But you liberals think that working as a cashier or a line person in a fast food restaurant is supposed to pay not only for; rent, utilities, food, a car, insurance but also for tattoo's, fancy salon hairdo's (really you should have seen what she came in with at times) Mani-Pedis every couple weeks, $200 tennis shoes, a cell phone (back when they first came out) and whatever else she wanted? - Oh and she lived in an apartment about 4 miles away and had a car, not 3 hours.


Not sure what rich mans fantasy world you live in, but reality of rent starting at $1200 is a reality. If you still think there are cold water flats for $50 a month, more power to you actually finding one, you should try finding one sometime. Somebody on low end with unreliable hours cause the boss wants a person on call but not full time to avoid govt mandates, then has to try and pay $1200. Let alone arranging child care. Second jobs when you are on call for first job truly isnt practical, just try it sometime.

I am assuming cause you rich conservatives get (eat?) manipedis (is that one of those insects with thousand legs?), weekly hairdo, and glow in the dark shoes endorsed by some celeb, you figure every poor person does too. Most families dont do those things, most are too busy trying to come up with the crazy high rent money that the idiot rich conservatives think they deserve, crazy high car payment, while still trying to put food on table. As that one NY politician Jimmy McMillan says every election, "The rents are too damn high!"....


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## HermitJohn (May 10, 2002)

damoc said:


> BTW when I moved back to the USA I worked for minimum and lived in my vehical in the parking lot of where I worked and later a trailer on premisis and was soon earning a very good wage because they appreciated my effort and willingness to learn by the time I left that job I was earning 5 times minimum and had learned commercial truck driving and many other skills.not to mention it was one of the most memorable times of my life.


Try doing that with a family in tow.


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## SLADE (Feb 20, 2004)

Its all just more wanna be rich against poor crap. We are all being taken.


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## haypoint (Oct 4, 2006)

A few decades ago, good employees were devoted to their job, to their employer, In return, employers were concerned about their employees. When demand for products slowed, the employer did everything they cold to keep their employees working. Employees did all they could to keep the business profitable.
Now, employers have no interest in their employees. If cutting their hours will get them out of providing any benefits, hours will be cut. Employers understand that the government will provide food and housing so wages are not required to reflect these costs. The taxpayers are, in effect, subsidizing every employer that pays low wages and hires only part time employees. Employers have shunned the responsibility of a fair wage in exchange for the highest profit. They are mostly willing to lose experienced employees and constantly train new ones and accept the poorer product or service during this training period, when that keeps their labor costs down.
The younger generation understands that the employer was no sense of employee responsibility. They have adjusted. They respond to low wages with low effort. They respond with no commitment to their job. They are willing to quit any time the job doesn't suit them. They know there are always crappy jobs, so quitting one is no big deal.
As more and more jobs devolve into low effort/ low pay, the number of potential customers shrinks. Eventually the economy stalls.
All the while, the taxpayer provides a wage increase in the form of free health care, free or subsidized housing, free food, unearned IRS tax refund, free daycare, etc.


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## mnn2501 (Apr 2, 2008)

HermitJohn said:


> Not sure what rich mans fantasy world you live in, but reality of rent starting at $1200 is a reality. If you still think there are cold water flats for $50 a month, more power to you actually finding one, you should try finding one sometime. Somebody on low end with unreliable hours cause the boss wants a person on call but not full time to avoid govt mandates, then has to try and pay $1200. Let alone arranging child care. Second jobs when you are on call for first job truly isnt practical, just try it sometime.
> 
> I am assuming cause you rich conservatives get (eat?) manipedis (is that one of those insects with thousand legs?), weekly hairdo, and glow in the dark shoes endorsed by some celeb, you figure every poor person does too. Most families dont do those things, most are too busy trying to come up with the crazy high rent money that the idiot rich conservatives think they deserve, crazy high car payment, while still trying to put food on table. As that one NY politician Jimmy McMillan says every election, "The rents are too damn high!"....


Rich mans fantasy - yeah whatever. The woman I am thinking about was making double what minimum wage was (not bad for a fast food worker), and getting 40 hours a week every week. What I said about what she did/bought is 100% fact. Rent at that time and place was between $200 and $300 for a decent apartment. You're making a lot of idiotic assumptions. 
I do get my hair cut about 4 or 5 times a year, but have never had a mani or a pedi, nor do I buy anything but basic tennis shoes. When I bought my current house I was told by bankers and real estate agents that I should be buying a house between 3 and 4 times as much as the one I bought. No HermitJohn, I know the difference between a want and a need, and frankly I don't want that much. Oh yeah, there have been times in my life that I have worked a second job, that's how I paid cash for my education. I also buy late model used cars, and they're not that fancy


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## TripleD (Feb 12, 2011)

Well 55 out of 59 tenants have their rent paid in full for the month. They are not starving, all have cell phones and everyone who drives has a newer model than the work truck I drive....


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## mnn2501 (Apr 2, 2008)

mekasmom said:


> The Trump Legacy...... People are in pain and need right now. I don't know the answer, but we need to care about people.


Its NOT due to Trump, there were poor people under; Obama, Bush2, Clinton, Bush1, Reagan, Carter, etc, etc, etc
There have been poor people since the beginning of time and there will be poor people until the end of time. Nobody can fix that. You help people by giving them jobs and opportunity, not handouts. That's something Trump has proven to excel at -- but it still will never be enough:

Matthew 26:11 (NIV)
11 The poor you will always have with you


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## MainehomesteadR (Nov 29, 2013)

*I'm not off grid to make a social statement.* * I'm off grid because it is what I can afford,* and what I will be able to afford when I retire.  Living where I do in Maine, how I do, means my property taxes are almost nothing. My tiny home is super insulated so my costs of heating and cooling are minimal. 

I have a few hens, a small orchard, berries, and asparagus patch and pot belly pigs all for the canning/freezing and living off of. Pot belly pigs are easier for me to handle, the over sized ones are 100-150 lbs. The smaller ones sell for a good price as pets. I'm supplementing my income with an eye to supplementing my retirement.


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## muleskinner2 (Oct 7, 2007)

nehimama said:


> I find this article very sobering, and a little frightening:
> 
> https://www.theorganicprepper.com/americans-rent-food-economic-collapse/
> 
> The point of the article wasn't really that jobs are tough to find. It's rather that jobs aren't paying enough to live on. Says so in the headline "43 percent of Americans can't pay for food and rent at the same time." They HAVE jobs, it's that the jobs aren't paying.


That 43% is the normal number of those who just get by in any society. You can shuffle the money any way you choose, there will always be that percentage who have less than everybody else.


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## SLADE (Feb 20, 2004)

In this country that means 140,000,000. 140 million people just getting by or not even that. Happy days are here again.


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

SRSLADE said:


> 140 million people *just getting by or not even that*.


I think that number is inflated.
"Poor" people here only have one TV and a cheap car.
Most still have good healthcare coverage and cell phones.

"Poor" people in other countries actually struggle to survive day to day.


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## mnn2501 (Apr 2, 2008)

> Says so in the headline "43 percent of Americans can't pay for food and rent at the same time." They HAVE jobs, it's that the jobs aren't paying


I would bet you that if you gave me the same amount of money - that I could pay for food and rent and within 6 months be making more money keeping the same kind of job they are currently doing.


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## mnn2501 (Apr 2, 2008)

SRSLADE said:


> In this country that means 140,000,000. 140 million people just getting by or not even that. Happy days are here again.


only if you are counting; children and senior citizens, the unemployed and disabled, those in prisons, those who do not want to work, etc. With that high of a percentage, I'm thinking whomever wrote the article is counting those I listed.


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## SLADE (Feb 20, 2004)

I forgot that in your mind and minds like yours these are not people.


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## mnn2501 (Apr 2, 2008)

SRSLADE said:


> I forgot that in your mind and minds like yours these are not people.


Grow up! Attitudes like yours is exactly why this country is so divided. Try being part of the solution to actual problems instead of just adding to the division.


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## SLADE (Feb 20, 2004)

mnn2501 said:


> Grow up! Attitudes like yours is exactly why this country is so divided. Try being part of the solution to actual problems instead of just adding to the division.


Open what mind you have.


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## MainehomesteadR (Nov 29, 2013)

Bearfootfarm said:


> I think that number is inflated.
> "Poor" people here only have one TV and a cheap car.
> Most still have good healthcare coverage and cell phones.
> 
> "Poor" people in other countries actually struggle to survive day to day.


seriously? where the heck do you live? I know people in Maine, TN and SD who don't have cars, don't have cell phones, don't even have indoor plumbing ..... I also know many many people in NY who don't drive, can't afford a car, couldn't afford parking if they had one.

"good healthcare coverage" not if they're poor, it's basic, they won't let you die, but they won't try overly hard to keep you alive either. seen it first hand, huge change in the system in the past 25 years.


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## mnn2501 (Apr 2, 2008)

SRSLADE said:


> Open what mind you have.


Precisely why the left and the right will never get together: The left let emotion rule them while the right rely on facts.


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

MainehomesteadR said:


> seriously? where the heck do you live? I know people in Maine, TN and SD who don't have cars, don't have cell phones, don't even have indoor plumbing .....
> 
> "good healthcare coverage" not if they're poor, it's basic, they won't let you die, but they won't try overly hard to keep you alive either. seen it first hand, huge change in the system in the past 25 years.


All those things are available if they will drag themselves down to a welfare office.
It's not like they are rooting around landfills looking for scraps to eat.

The OP is talking about the "working poor" and claiming it applies to nearly half the population.


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## SLADE (Feb 20, 2004)

mnn2501 said:


> Precisely why the left and the right will never get together: The left let emotion rule them while the right rely on facts.


Who's facts.


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## MainehomesteadR (Nov 29, 2013)

I am talking about the working poor too!!! And if you are working, and single with no children, you will get so little public assistance it would shock you. I'm a conservative but I'm also a caring human being. There has GOT to be some middle ground here.


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## krackin (Nov 2, 2014)

As soon as we can drain the swamp that 43% will increase to 57%. Then we will get ag jobs back and lose the criminal aliens crossing the border. y"all got to admit, most of you could stand to do a bit of physical labor.


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

MainehomesteadR said:


> I am talking about the working poor too!!! And if you are working, and single with no children, you will get so little public assistance it would shock you. I'm a conservative but I'm also a caring human being. There has GOT to be some middle ground here.


If you're working, single and no children you should have no trouble living within your means.

Any "middle ground" means accepting reality.
I don't see all this "suffering" going on.
Where are they hiding?


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## SLADE (Feb 20, 2004)

krackin said:


> As soon as we can drain the swamp that 43% will increase to 57%. Then we will get ag jobs back and lose the criminal aliens crossing the border. y"all got to admit, most of you could stand to do a bit of physical labor.


Do you have a little red hat?


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## MainehomesteadR (Nov 29, 2013)

Bearfootfarm said:


> If you're working, single and no children you should have no trouble living within your means.
> 
> Any "middle ground" means accepting reality.
> I don't see all this "suffering" going on.
> Where are they hiding?


rent is not cheaper because you are single! even finding a room to rent for many is beyond what a minimum wage job will pay.


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

MainehomesteadR said:


> rent is not cheaper because you are single! even finding a room to rent for many is beyond what a minimum wage job will pay.


That's not been my experience.
Most can make above minimum wage with a minimum of effort.

You can keep repeating the claims but I'm not going to believe it when I don't see it.


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## krackin (Nov 2, 2014)

SRSLADE said:


> Do you have a little red hat?


No, Ive got a big sunburned red neck though. I work my owner operator farm. I raise mostly local market sweet corn, a few extras, and custom order finished butcher hogs. 

Just what the hell do you do? Melt?


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## krackin (Nov 2, 2014)

Bearfootfarm said:


> That's not been my experience.
> Most can make above minimum wage with a minimum of effort.
> 
> You can keep repeating the claims but I'm not going to believe it when I don't see it.


I have to agree with that. Often times jobs posted as 'laborer' pay more than equipment operators. Been there, done that. Especially when fed pay scale is used. Any fool can drive truck, not so with welded pipe in place.


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## mnn2501 (Apr 2, 2008)

SRSLADE said:


> Who's facts.


There is only one set of facts. whereas the left has a whole string of emotional responses and pick what they want to exploit to tug at their followers heartstrings, and their followers eat it all up because they refuse to do their own research.


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## SLADE (Feb 20, 2004)

mnn2501 said:


> There is only one set of facts. whereas the left has a whole string of emotional responses and pick what they want to exploit to tug at their followers heartstrings, and their followers eat it all up because they refuse to do their own research.


Drain the swamp. I'll look that up.


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## SLADE (Feb 20, 2004)

It changes day to day. I wanted to grow pot


krackin said:


> No, Ive got a big sunburned red neck though. I work my owner operator farm. I raise mostly local market sweet corn, a few extras, and custom order finished butcher hogs.
> 
> Just what the hell do you do? Melt?





krackin said:


> No, Ive got a big sunburned red neck though. I work my owner operator farm. I raise mostly local market sweet corn, a few extras, and custom order finished butcher hogs.
> 
> Just what the hell do you do? Melt?





krackin said:


> No, Ive got a big sunburned red neck though. I work my owner operator farm. I raise mostly local market sweet corn, a few extras, and custom order finished butcher hogs.
> 
> Just what the hell do you do? Melt?


It changes day to day. I wanted to grow pot but now I lean more to hemp.


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## krackin (Nov 2, 2014)

K. You best have zero tolerance for all rodents. Just sayin. Best of luck to you, I won't compete , too set in my ways. Get on it and I'll bet you get 10 good years, once laws change.


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## MainehomesteadR (Nov 29, 2013)

Bearfootfarm said:


> That's not been my experience.
> Most can make above minimum wage with a minimum of effort.
> 
> You can keep repeating the claims but I'm not going to believe it when I don't see it.


So my own personal experience means nothing??? I'm supposed to believe you, yet you don't have to believe me? Cute.


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

MainehomesteadR said:


> So my own personal experience means nothing??? I'm supposed to believe you, yet you don't have to believe me? Cute.


It makes no difference to me what you believe.
It won't change what I've seen myself.

You're trying to tell me people can't afford basic things when I bought my first car while still in high school working part time.


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## MainehomesteadR (Nov 29, 2013)

Bearfootfarm said:


> It makes no difference to me what you believe.
> It won't change what I've seen myself.
> 
> You're trying to tell me people can't afford basic things when I bought my first car while still in high school working part time.


and that was what, a hundred years ago? I bet you walked 15 miles thru blizzards to school too. 

I have seen poor working people, I've even been there, you have clearly led a very cushy life to be able to say you have never seen the working poor unable to afford the basics.


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## SLADE (Feb 20, 2004)

I was thinking more like 95 years.


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

MainehomesteadR said:


> I have seen poor working people, I've even been there, you have clearly led a very cushy life to be able to say you have never seen the working poor unable to afford the basics.


We already had this conversation.
Repetition is pointless.


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

MainehomesteadR said:


> I have seen poor working people, I've even been there, you have clearly led a very cushy life to be able to say you have never seen the working poor unable to afford the basics.


We had this conversation already.
Repetition is pointless.


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## Sourdough (Dec 28, 2011)

Self-righteous Bullies, and their small band of worshipers, continue to lower the overall quality of some forums.

Dear moderators.........this is simple a generic observation.........and does not necessarily include this forum or any of its members.


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## Sourdough (Dec 28, 2011)

Self-righteous Bullies, and their small band of worshipers, continue to lower the overall quality of some forums.

Dear moderators.........this is simple a generic observation.........and does not necessarily include this forum or any of its members.


----------



## coolrunnin (Aug 28, 2010)

Bearfootfarm said:


> We had this conversation already.
> Repetition is pointless.





Bearfootfarm said:


> We already had this conversation.
> Repetition is pointless.


But here you are repeating it.. lol.


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

coolrunnin said:


> But here you are repeating it.. lol.


I'm not responsible for computer glitches.


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## Sourdough (Dec 28, 2011)

Bearfootfarm said:


> I'm not responsible for computer glitches.


Those who know me on this forum, can appreciate the degree to which is pains me to agree with Bearfootfarm, however it appears that in this one rare instance he is correct.......there was a computer glitch. My above post was also duplicated.


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

Sourdough said:


> Those who know me on this forum, can appreciate the degree to which is *pains me to agree with Bearfootfarm*


It's simply a matter of admitting the truth.
That shouldn't "pain" anyone as long as they stick to the truth themselves.

Some would rather stretch the truth to unbelievable extremes:



Sourdough said:


> Dear moderators.........this is simple a generic observation.........and *does not necessarily include this forum or any of its members*.


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## HermitJohn (May 10, 2002)

Bearfootfarm said:


> I think that number is inflated.
> "Poor" people here only have one TV and a cheap car.
> Most still have good healthcare coverage and cell phones.
> 
> "Poor" people in other countries actually struggle to survive day to day.


Tell that to some single mother that didnt get enough hours and gets kicked out of her apartment along with all stuff she owns being put on curb for looters to scavenge. Cause she doesnt have a truck nor can she afford a storage unit. Then she not only has to find shelter for herself and kids, but has to replace the necessities of life.

And sorry but there isnt any public transportation most places or its very limited in where you can travel or when you can use it. Most places in America, jobs are not in residential neighborhoods. You NEED a DEPENDABLE car to have a JOB. TV isnt anything much, I can buy one that works for $15 at local thrift store or rig one from an old computer monitor and one of those $25 converter boxes. Big whoop. 

No most at low end do NOT have health care. Remember the red states mostly didnt extend medicade to working poor. You have to be primary caregiver of a minor child to qualify, plus have an extremely low income. Since working poor tend to have too high of an income for Medicare, but too low to qualify for Obamacare, they are SCREWED there is no healthcare except emergency room and big debt that follows you around until you pay an attourney to declare bankruptcy. Then you cant declare bankruptcy again for like ten year. So more emergency room medical care means hassles with debt collectors.

Again you obviously have never been poor.


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## HermitJohn (May 10, 2002)

mnn2501 said:


> I would bet you that if you gave me the same amount of money - that I could pay for food and rent and within 6 months be making more money keeping the same kind of job they are currently doing.


You and your five children? Meaning you have to find shelter and feed them day ONE, not hobo in your car or under a bridge for six month and live off road kill cooked over a burning trash fire.


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## HermitJohn (May 10, 2002)

Bearfootfarm said:


> It makes no difference to me what you believe.
> It won't change what I've seen myself.
> 
> You're trying to tell me people can't afford basic things when I bought my first car while still in high school working part time.


I too have bought drivable cars for low as $50 (think modern slang term for such is a Hooptie). But that was a LONG TIME AGO and you still had to have some tools and enough knowledge to keep them going. You would be an idiot to take a $50 car to a repair shop where anymore you rarely get out there for less than $1000 unless you just are having oil changed.... Without some skills and spot you can work (landlords dont want you working on cars on their property), I would say cheapest car that might be dependable enough for daily job would be $2500. 

I can still piece together a dependable $1000 vehicle, but I have no time pressure (retired) and own my place out in country without busybody neighbors complaining if it remains immobile for while (you own old car, you really need more than one so when one breaks and it will break). I also weld and have lot mechanic skills/tools from lifetime of experience. Some of the modern electronic wonders still a challenge, but do have internet to help with such. Can tell you parts for modern cars are lot more numerous and cost lot more. A new fuel pump is no longer $10 and fifteen minutes to install it (half hour if you never done one before). You also have to watch out for counterfeit parts that wont last if they work at all. (Big hint, dont buy the cheapest fuel pump you can buy) Cars and pollution inspection laws seem very unfriendly to those poor trying to get by. Car still runs ok but govt can now refuse to let you license/drive it. They pretend everybody has financial resources of the middle class. Talk about the environmentalists and corporate America in bed together.....


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## HermitJohn (May 10, 2002)

Bearfootfarm said:


> It's simply a matter of admitting the truth.
> That shouldn't "pain" anyone as long as they stick to the truth themselves.
> 
> Some would rather stretch the truth to unbelievable extremes:


And some have permanent rose colored glasses on far as the poor are concerned. It simply isnt 1950s anymore with good paying blue collar jobs for anybody that can show up on time and cheap housing and cheap healthy food. Health care was payable out of pocket and if you were bit short, doc wait until you got next paycheck. Now medical care costs more than most people make in YEARS or even a lifetime, especially if you have to go to hospital for anything.


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## Fishindude (May 19, 2015)

There is plenty of good paying work out there for anybody that will get off their rear end and do it, and if the one job doesn't pay you enough get a second one. I ran a business for 40 years and it disgusts me how lazy and unreliable some people can be. No wage will improve their situation because they can't make it in to work to start with and they will likely get fired for disregarding work rules simple enough for any dummy to follow. 90% Of job success is about being reliable. There is also a good many that couldn't pass a drug screen and when it comes to giving up the job or the drugs, the job gets axed. 

Until we tighten up on the government freebies and hand outs, these numbers won't improve.


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

HermitJohn said:


> Now medical care costs more than most people make in YEARS or even a lifetime, especially if you have to go to hospital for anything.


So?
*Most* don't ever go to the hospital.
Many seldom go to a Dr.

*Truly* "poor" get Medicaid, which is free medical coverage.



HermitJohn said:


> It simply isnt 1950s anymore with good paying blue collar jobs for anybody that can show up on time and cheap housing and cheap healthy food


There are plenty of jobs that pay enough to get by if one makes an effort and doesn't waste their money on needless things like smart phones and high speed internet.

You keep parroting the rhetoric but that still doesn't change reality.
Most people I know have jobs, food and a place to live and money for a few extras too.
Those with medical bills work out payment plans.

Many *whine* about being "poor" but it's not the truth.


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

HermitJohn said:


> Tell that to some single mother that didnt get enough hours and gets kicked out of her apartment along with all stuff she owns being put on curb for looters to scavenge. Cause she doesnt have a truck nor can she afford a storage unit. Then she not only has to find shelter for herself and kids, but has to replace the necessities of life.


Some *made up* sob story isn't proof of anything.
Let's just stick to reality.



HermitJohn said:


> *They pretend* everybody has financial resources of the middle class.


You want to pretend everyone is dirt poor, starving and homeless.
What's your point?


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## no really (Aug 7, 2013)

Nearly every state has rent assistance programs.


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## Sourdough (Dec 28, 2011)

DELETED...........By Me


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

Sourdough said:


> REALITY...........reality is those who are currently desperate (Matters not, if their desperation is their own fault) are the one who will set you neighborhood on fire if the SHTF......bigtime SHTF.
> 
> Vengeance can be yucky, for the receiver.


I don't see where that has anything to do with this topic.
It's more about PAW fiction than reality.


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## SLADE (Feb 20, 2004)

It's not about jobs.It's about inflation and pay. Yes lots of jobs that pay nothing. Lets wake up and quit judging the world by our own little selves.


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

SRSLADE said:


> It's not about jobs.It's about inflation and pay.


I think it's more about people wanting to live beyond their means.


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## mnn2501 (Apr 2, 2008)

HermitJohn said:


> You and your five children? Meaning you have to find shelter and feed them day ONE, not hobo in your car or under a bridge for six month and live off road kill cooked over a burning trash fire.


First place I wouldn't have 5 kids, I wouldn't have 1 kid if I couldn't afford it myself. That's one major difference. These people didn't get born working and with 5 children of their own, they worked up to it. SO stop throwing around your nonsensical proposals.


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## SLADE (Feb 20, 2004)

Bearfootfarm said:


> I think it's more about people wanting to live beyond their means.


So you would be happy with people living in the streets in far greater numbers than we have now.


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## mnn2501 (Apr 2, 2008)

SRSLADE said:


> So you would be happy with people living in the streets in far greater numbers than we have now.


Get over yourself!


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## HermitJohn (May 10, 2002)

mnn2501 said:


> First place I wouldn't have 5 kids, I wouldn't have 1 kid if I couldn't afford it myself. That's one major difference. These people didn't get born working and with 5 children of their own, they worked up to it. SO stop throwing around your nonsensical proposals.


So the guy making $100k a year has five kids. Yep he can afford them. Agree so far? Then the economy turns south, another Great Depression. He cant afford them and doesnt feel like jumping out of a window and ending it all. Does he just stuff them back inside his wife's womb until economy has an upturn? Or should only people that are independently wealthy with huge hoard of gold and with standing army and nuclear missles to fend off invaders be allowed to have children?


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## MainehomesteadR (Nov 29, 2013)

A working poor single mother/father will qualify for renting assistance, health insurance etc. however, a single adult will get no help anywhere. In Maine, its even tough for a single person to get food stamps if they need it. 

Not everyone is the working poor, if they were, more people would 'get it'. Yes, I can work 2-3 part time jobs since no one is hiring full time employees-- the problem started IMO--- when liberals insisted if you worked 32 hours or more you were full time and thus entitled to tons of benefits your boss has to pay for. paid vacations etc... so employers do not want to hire anyone full time with bennies unless they absolutely have to. This means juggling 2 or 3 part time jobs, and each boss expects his/her hours to take priority if some one else calls in sick and they want you to fill in. 

I feel compassion for those less fortunate. If you live in the city, there are so few options available to single working poor folks. Even in the country its tough because then you simply must have 'reliable transportation' to be considered for a job. 

I'm really surprised to find so few here appear care about their fellow-man. It's just not the attitude I'm used to seeing and hearing from other homesteaders. Or maybe it's just a loud minority?


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

SRSLADE said:


> So you would be happy with people living in the streets in far greater numbers than we have now.


That's ridiculous.
Why make such a silly, illogical conclusion based on what I said?
(Aside from the fact you can't logically refute what I said)



> HermitJohn said: ↑
> You and your five children? Meaning you have to find shelter and feed them day ONE, not hobo in your car or under a bridge for six month and live off road kill cooked over a burning trash fire.


Irrational, unrealistic, fabricated examples just make you look more silly.


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## MainehomesteadR (Nov 29, 2013)

Fishindude said:


> There is plenty of good paying work out there for anybody that will get off their rear end and do it, and if the one job doesn't pay you enough get a second one. I ran a business for 40 years and it disgusts me how lazy and unreliable some people can be. No wage will improve their situation because they can't make it in to work to start with and they will likely get fired for disregarding work rules simple enough for any dummy to follow. 90% Of job success is about being reliable. There is also a good many that couldn't pass a drug screen and when it comes to giving up the job or the drugs, the job gets axed.
> 
> Until we tighten up on the government freebies and hand outs, these numbers won't improve.


did you offer paid health insurance to your employees? paid vacations? 401K or a matching IRA ?? Did you pay a living wage ? Or did you expect your employees to find a second job somewhere to make up for the short falls of working for you?

I do agree about some of the gov. crap-- a lot of what they insist a boss has to cover now just isn't sustainable-- and is why there are so few full time jobs available now, at least here where I am.


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## Sourdough (Dec 28, 2011)

Google "Corporate Welfare"

Many employed people in high paying jobs, the company gets massive welfare to pay them. Some industries get "Billions" in corporate welfare.


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## mnn2501 (Apr 2, 2008)

HermitJohn said:


> So the guy making $100k a year has five kids. Yep he can afford them. Agree so far?


 No I do not. Earnings and wealth are 2 entirely different things.
Earnings can go away for lots of reasons. You have to be smarter than that. And in my opinion - Why does anyone have 5 kids?

I know, much of the population is not that smart, they spend and spend and spend thinking they will always have the same or more income. In the old days, credit was hard to come by, now its way too easy, that's why people need to be smart about money and learn the difference between wants and needs. People with low incomes to begin with, need to learn the difference quickly.
Thats what I've been saying this entire thread, people need to learn the difference between and want and a need.


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## barnbilder (Jul 1, 2005)

Rent? What the heck is rent? Some of these people don't pay rent. They live with "their momma and them". $1400 a month rent is not too bad when it is split 14 ways. By the time you factor in reimbursements for extracurricular activities, services rendered, a few pit bull sales, some payment received for non-taxable commodities, cash for doing tattoos and piercing on the DL, maybe some hairdressing here and there, there is a lot of disposable income in that household. Fast food is beneath them, they can make more money accidentally than people working fast food can make on purpose. Fast food is for people that want to not be earning a negative amount, and don't want a gap in their work history, and possibly those who want to make a career of it. You can work in fast food, earning less than a living wage, and eventually work your way up to more than a living wage. Virtually the same as any other profession.

Except farming. Farmers are stuck at fifty cents an hour, because most people are in the business to lose money on the farm, so that they don't lose money to uncle sam, and so that they can have shiny nice toys and land to impress their friends. It is an industry designed to lose money, you aren't going to beat it at it's own game. You can't compete with people that are in it to lose money and expect to make money. If you think you are making anything, you are either delusional or a poor accountant, afflictions that seem to both be in place in most farmers. I think it has something to do with the em fields emitted from FFA jackets.


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## Hiro (Feb 14, 2016)

There is a big difference in attitudes, from personal observation, from the person signing the front of the paycheck and those signing the back of it.


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## MainehomesteadR (Nov 29, 2013)

Sourdough said:


> Google "Corporate Welfare"
> 
> Many employed people in high paying jobs, the company gets massive welfare to pay them. Some industries get "Billions" in corporate welfare.


I don't know about that, but I do know, here in Maine, the State pays companies a bonus of some sort if they hire some one who is on welfare -- which IMO makes an unfair hiring advantage... of course on the other hand, minimum wage doesn't pay enough to live on, but it pays enough to get you OFF the welfare rolls... so I can see it as a very mixed bag.


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

MainehomesteadR said:


> did you offer paid health insurance to your employees? paid vacations? 401K or a matching IRA ??


That really has little to do with making enough money for food and rent.
It's more along the lines of expecting more than what is earned.


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## HermitJohn (May 10, 2002)

MainehomesteadR said:


> Not everyone is the working poor, if they were, more people would 'get it'. Yes, I can work 2-3 part time jobs since no one is hiring full time employees-- the problem started IMO--- when liberals insisted if you worked 32 hours or more you were full time and thus entitled to tons of benefits your boss has to pay for. paid vacations etc... so employers do not want to hire anyone full time with bennies unless they absolutely have to. This means juggling 2 or 3 part time jobs, and each boss expects his/her hours to take priority if some one else calls in sick and they want you to fill in.


These piecemeal "on call as needed" jobs suck for employee and taxpayer too. Its a tax subsidy for such employers doing an end run around the law. Govt should change their laws to require the benefits to be prorated for part time jobs. Make it as painful as possible for employers offering the piecemeal "on call" jobs that require govt welfare to make up the difference. Heck make any part time job require full time benefits. That should eliminate such nonsense. Also fake "independent contractor" jobs need same attention. Putting all burden on the lowend worker to try and schedule around employer whims to try and get enough work isnt helpful to the worker or the welfare system. Just squeezing requirements for welfare even more isnt helpful. If these jobs arent worth paying real wages, then eliminate the jobs. You will then suddenly find lot of new full time jobs being offered. And probably lot of cash under table jobs too. 

Its same nonsense with trillion dollar border walls and such. Forget the walls, all you need is a mandatory 10 year sentence for anybody hiring an illegal. Including CEO and board of directors, if corp hires them. In a maximum security federal prison. No exceptions. People will then bend over backwards to insure the person they hire has legit green card. No jobs, nobody trying to come across the border.


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## HermitJohn (May 10, 2002)

mnn2501 said:


> No I do not. Earnings and wealth are 2 entirely different things.
> Earnings can go away for lots of reasons. You have to be smarter than that. And in my opinion - Why does anyone have 5 kids?
> 
> I know, much of the population is not that smart, they spend and spend and spend thinking they will always have the same or more income. In the old days, credit was hard to come by, now its way too easy, that's why people need to be smart about money and learn the difference between wants and needs. People with low incomes to begin with, need to learn the difference quickly.
> Thats what I've been saying this entire thread, people need to learn the difference between and want and a need.


You have to be smarter than that. Reproductive years from teens to thirties for humans. NOBODY (except a few 1%rs that have huge family fortunes) in this age range has spare couple million in a bank account to guarantee they will never be a burden on society as you seem to want. Least darn few. This artificial capitalism "responsibility" nonsense cant trump the natural order of things. Humans along with every other living creature on the planet hardwired to want to reproduce when old enough. Just the way things work. If everybody had to wait until they were 65 to have children, thinking there would be darn few children, though guess modern medicine can make a 65 year old woman able to carry a donated fertilized egg to term....

We do agree that consumer credit is bad thing. How about the Biblical rule that ALL DEBT be automatically forgiven every 7 years? This means only a fool offers easy credit to sell ever more goods. Cause after 7 year he is simply out of luck ever collecting. I personally would just outlaw consumer credit 100% forever, but that would never pass cause the USA economy is based on servicing debt, not actually selling product. Product is just the bribe to get people to sign their life away on the dotted line. Even people with pretty good income already have much of it promised to service debt. You cant really save if you have huge debt hanging over your head.


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## HermitJohn (May 10, 2002)

Bearfootfarm said:


> That really has little to do with making enough money for food and rent.
> It's more along the lines of expecting more than what is earned.


So you either want your employees to go without health care or you want the taxpayer to subsidize your low wages?


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## HermitJohn (May 10, 2002)

mnn2501 said:


> No I do not.


Then I say you cant afford to hire workers. You need to be wealthier so you can pay a living wage.... without getting a subsidy from the taxpayer.


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## mnn2501 (Apr 2, 2008)

HermitJohn said:


> Then I say you cant afford to hire workers. You need to be wealthier so you can pay a living wage.... without getting a subsidy from the taxpayer.


You are aware are you not of when employers started paying for health care on a massive scale? It was during the Nixon years when he (idiotically) put wage and price controls in effect. Businesses couldn't give raises but they could add benefits. That is the point when health care costs went out of control. Prior to that people could afford health care. It cost my parents a bit over $200 when I was born in the late 50's that was with a 7 day hospital stay for my mother and me.

When other people (insurance companies) pay for something for you, you don't really care what it costs, this causes health care costs to go up and up while actual care goes down and down.


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

HermitJohn said:


> So you either *want* your employees to go without health care or you* want* the taxpayer to subsidize your low wages?


What someone may "want" makes no difference.
This is about what people can earn and afford.


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## Danaus29 (Sep 12, 2005)

Around here nearly every job application has to be done on the internet. This is fine for people who have good service and a computer. Not good for people who can't afford the $75 monthly internet cost and a decent working laptop. And you really need to have a cell phone because if you don't answer the phone that one and only time the interviewer calls you'll miss out on the job opportunity. Sure you can always use the library computer. Spend all day waiting for your 1/2 hour of use, then spend up to 50 cents each per page of copies you need to make. It can take half an hour or more to find the proper format to use for your resume, and that format may not be compatible with the application site. And if your phone rings in the middle of your half hour session you have to either ignore the call (remember, potential employer) or log off and forfeit the rest of your allotted time.


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## Farmerwilly2 (Oct 14, 2006)

HillsOfSWVA said:


> So much wrong with this world.. it is mostly about greed, that is the root of the majority of our problems. Many of us work a dead end job for crappy employers who are more worried about their own bottom line than their employees being able to pay their bills. I have worked in construction for over a decade and still have not found a good place to work for and it's hard to work for yourself, by yourself... And nobody pays decent wages.
> That's one of the biggest reasons I want to keep building my homestead to be self sufficient so one day I can totally unplug from society


Good for you planning to take care of yourself and not be beholden to someone else. I don't expect my employer to care about me though. He has a company---his goal is to make money. He can't do all of the work himself so he hires people like me to work for him. He tells me what he will pay, I decide if I want to work for him or not. I have the option to start my own company and make money if I choose. Not much more complicated than that.


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

HermitJohn said:


> Then I say you cant afford to hire workers. You need to be wealthier so you can pay a living wage.... without getting a subsidy from the taxpayer.


Workers need to learn to be worth a "living wage"
(which is really a meaningless term that is purposely vague)


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

Danaus29 said:


> Around here nearly every job application has to be done on the internet. This is fine for people who have good service and a computer. Not good for people who can't afford the $75 monthly internet cost and a decent working laptop. And you really need to have a cell phone because if you don't answer the phone that one and only time the interviewer calls you'll miss out on the job opportunity.


Libraries even in small towns have free internet access.
Home phones can have answering machines and prospective employers will leave messages.



Danaus29 said:


> Sure you can always use the library computer. Spend all day waiting for your 1/2 hour of use, then spend up to 50 cents each per page of copies you need to make. It can take half an hour or more to find the proper format to use for your resume, and that format may not be compatible with the application site. And if your phone rings in the middle of your half hour session you have to either ignore the call (remember, potential employer) or log off and forfeit the rest of your allotted time.


Nothing but excuses.
People got along fine in the past without internet and phone access 24/7.
They can still do it now with minimal effort.

There are also Govt agencies that will help people find jobs and put in applications.


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## Clem (Apr 12, 2016)

Some people are so uninformed that they don't know they are poor. Such was the case in my childhood, in the eastern edge of Appalachia. Since everybody else was poor, there was nothing to compare too. Those who were less poor were that way because they worked 2 jobs, etc.

As time went by, the difference between the well off and the rest of us got more noticeable. Instead of merely living on top of the hill in a bigger house, they bought all the other houses and tore them down, because the view of the poor shacks their fathers worked so hard to pay for, and their mothers worked so hard to keep up, while taking care of those very children.... offended them.

Thus the stench of class difference came into our peaceful, way down south communities.


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## no really (Aug 7, 2013)

Clem said:


> Some people are so uninformed that they don't know they are poor. Such was the case in my childhood, in the eastern edge of Appalachia. Since everybody else was poor, there was nothing to compare too. Those who were less poor were that way because they worked 2 jobs, etc.
> 
> As time went by, the difference between the well off and the rest of us got more noticeable. Instead of merely living on top of the hill in a bigger house, they bought all the other houses and tore them down, because the view of the poor shacks their fathers worked so hard to pay for, and their mothers worked so hard to keep up, while taking care of those very children.... offended them.
> 
> Thus the stench of class difference came into our peaceful, way down south communities.


So you don't think those people down the hill should be allowed to sell their houses?


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## Clem (Apr 12, 2016)

Spin it til your eyes bulge, you cannot affect the simple truth of what I posted.


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## krackin (Nov 2, 2014)

Danaus29 said:


> Around here nearly every job application has to be done on the internet. This is fine for people who have good service and a computer. Not good for people who can't afford the $75 monthly internet cost and a decent working laptop. And you really need to have a cell phone because if you don't answer the phone that one and only time the interviewer calls you'll miss out on the job opportunity. Sure you can always use the library computer. Spend all day waiting for your 1/2 hour of use, then spend up to 50 cents each per page of copies you need to make. It can take half an hour or more to find the proper format to use for your resume, and that format may not be compatible with the application site. And if your phone rings in the middle of your half hour session you have to either ignore the call (remember, potential employer) or log off and forfeit the rest of your allotted time.


If you are emailing your 'resume' you won't be needing a cell phone, regardless of format. You're fired.


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## krackin (Nov 2, 2014)

Clem said:


> Spin it til your eyes bulge, you cannot affect the simple truth of what I posted.


Libs call it racism in the inner city blight. Don't point out the truth.


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## Danaus29 (Sep 12, 2005)

Bearfootfarm said:


> Libraries even in small towns have free internet access.
> Home phones can have answering machines and prospective employers will leave messages.
> 
> 
> ...


You didn't read the part about the time limit. There is a time limit on the library's computers. You can bring your own laptop and get free access. McDonalds and several other places have free internet access. But you still have to have a laptop to use the internet. Because of all the immigrants you really can't use the govt agencies to help you find a job unless you also qualify for some sort of govt assistance. 



krackin said:


> If you are emailing your 'resume' you won't be needing a cell phone, regardless of format. You're fired.


So how are you supposed to get a resume to a prospective employer who accepts ONLY emailed or electronically submitted resumes?

I have helped a few people in their job searches in this area within the past few years. Have either of you? Obviously not, so don't tell me how the job market in this area functions.


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

Danaus29 said:


> You didn't read the part about the time limit. There is a time limit on the library's computers. You can bring your own laptop and get free access.


I read it all.
If people want jobs they can get them without *owning* internet and cell phones.



Danaus29 said:


> So how are you supposed to get a resume to a prospective employer who accepts ONLY emailed or electronically submitted resumes?


You go to the Employment Security Commission and ask them to help.
It's what they do.



Danaus29 said:


> Because of all the immigrants you really can't use the govt agencies to help you find a job unless you also qualify for some sort of govt assistance.


If they are poor and unemployed they should "qualify" to get help finding a job.

I just keep hearing excuses and not seeing all these starving homeless people dying in the streets.


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## Clem (Apr 12, 2016)

When I was 18, I decided I'd had enough of this part of the country, and set out to see America. I went to Los Angeles, where I worked for some dude that was a fancy pants house painter, but called himself a decorator. Last straw was when I had to tear Reynolds Wrap into squares, wrinkle good, straighten back up, and glue on the ceiling of a veterinarian's OR. Weird, insane, and ugly. After that, I worked for a guy installing alarm systems and stuff, but that wasn't what I did. I had a more unpleasant, but personally satisfying job. Left LA, headed to Boston, as usual, chasing a woman. Went to work in a steel mill. Well, heck with that. 15 minutes and I was outta there, and ended up in the Chas. N. Miller corporation. I'll always remember it!! 100 Mass. Ave, Boston. 3rd floor was all Italian immigrants. 4th floor was all black men from Mississippi. And one white hippie, when I got there. They made the penny candy known as "Mary Jane"Also Twofer's, as in twofer a penny. I lived on Mary Jane's and peanuts for 2 weeks until my first paycheck.

Lot of experience, and I wouldn't trade the memories for the world. BUT, that was in the 60's. I wouldn't try it again today.


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## HermitJohn (May 10, 2002)

Bearfootfarm said:


> I read it all.
> If people want jobs they can get them without *owning* internet and cell phones.
> 
> 
> ...



So how do you get a ride to the Employment Security Commission to ask for help when you dont have a car nor a phone nor a computer. Cause you dont have a job to earn the money for those things? And the conservative govt that runs your area doesnt think good public transportation is worthwhile, cause anybody worth his salt owns a new car, bought from the conservative new car dealer. And why is this thread turning into thread on us explaining facts of life and how things have to be done in order. Such as you should learned as a kid from House that Jack Built and There Was an Old Lady song. Probably cause you are ignoring things required to do other things or more likely just playing dumb since they are inconvenient hurdles to your idea of the perfect little capitalist world with perfect little capitalist bosses, all with shiny hearts of gold, hiring perfect little capitalist workers only concerned with making their bosses the most profit possible. Doesnt see reality that its just a modern version of traditional serfdom or perhaps people starving their cat thinking it will make him more eager to catch mice. Its a system and you are pretending the end is possible without the beginning and all parts dont have to cooperate to make it work. In other words you are saying the wannabe worker has the money and reliable legal transportation to go all these places for help and do all these things that are necessary to get the low paying part time job, but somehow to do this before he has the job to earn the money to buy the things necessary to get the job....

I think its been long time since anybody got hired anywhere without owning a phone or having access to a phone. Dont think Western Union still hand delivers telegraph messages??? And heck USPS no longer even does rural delivery down my road, they put in a clusterbox for everybody on my road, down by hiway. I couldnt even get my mail if I didnt have a car. And since bosses want you on call 24/7 anymore suppose even a landline isnt good enough now. I remember once having a neighbor without a phone and at that time cell phones were big things in a bag and cost literal fortune to own/operate one. His boss gave him one of those beeper things that lights up indicating his boss wanted him to call in. This back when there were pay phones though not out here in the sticks. So he comes over to my house to use my landline phone. With cell phones so common, I imagine that little diddly bob that lights up is probably history.



> *“This Is the House That Jack Built” Lyrics*
> This is the house that Jack built.
> This is the cheese that lay in the house that Jack built.
> This is the rat that ate the cheese
> ...





> *There was an Old Lady song*
> 
> *There was an old lady who swallowed a fly
> I don't know why she swallowed a fly - perhaps she'll die!
> ...


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## HermitJohn (May 10, 2002)

Farmerwilly2 said:


> Good for you planning to take care of yourself and not be beholden to someone else. I don't expect my employer to care about me though. He has a company---his goal is to make money. He can't do all of the work himself so he hires people like me to work for him. He tells me what he will pay, I decide if I want to work for him or not. I have the option to start my own company and make money if I choose. Not much more complicated than that.


So in your humble opinion, every man is an island and owes nothing to the society in which he lives? Law of the jungle, screw over your neighbor before he screws you. Climb to the top on the backs of others. Race the rats to grab the biggest piece of cheese. Yep right nice way to live.... if you are the head rat. Sucks for everybody else.


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## GTX63 (Dec 13, 2016)

Seems more like a dispute between the haves and the wills and the have nots and the will nots.


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## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

HermitJohn said:


> So in your humble opinion, every man is an island and owes nothing to the society in which he lives? Law of the jungle, screw over your neighbor before he screws you. Climb to the top on the backs of others. Race the rats to grab the biggest piece of cheese. Yep right nice way to live.... if you are the head rat. Sucks for everybody else.


Excellent post.

"A nation's greatness is measured by how it treats its weakest members." Mahatma Ghandi


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## SLADE (Feb 20, 2004)

I've always said a community is only as rich as it's poorest citizen.


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## Sourdough (Dec 28, 2011)

Which generally ends with the "Have Not's" rioting and the resulting ugliness (maybe civil war, or maybe revolution) in which both sides loose.........but the "Have's" loose far, far, far more the "Have Not's". The reason is because if you "Ain't got squat"........you ain't got much to loose. America is ripe for some serious 1960's ugliness, and some serious "Wooop'ass" being delivered.



GTX63 said:


> Seems more like a dispute between the haves and the wills and the have nots and the will nots.


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

HermitJohn said:


> So how do you get a ride to the Employment Security Commission to ask for help when you dont have a car nor a phone nor a computer.


I used to walk to work before I earned enough to buy a car, or I would get a ride from a friend.

The first real job I had was one where I could ride to on the school bus.

Or you can sit around making excuses..........



HermitJohn said:


> And why is this thread turning into thread on *us explaining* facts of life and how things have to be done in order.


It's not.
You take it upon yourself to "explain" things.
No one asked.
I just see some making excuses and having unrealistic expectations.


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

Irish Pixie said:


> Excellent post.
> 
> "A nation's greatness is measured by how it treats its weakest members." *Mahatma Ghandi*


Ghandi was a wise man:



> *Among the many misdeeds of the British rule in India, history will look upon the Act depriving a whole nation of arms as the blackest.*
> 
> If we want the Arms Act to be repealed, if we want to learn the use of arms, here is a golden opportunity. If the middle classes render voluntary help to Government in the hour of its trial, distrust will disappear, and the ban on possessing arms will be withdrawn.


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## KandCfamilyfarm (Nov 4, 2017)

IMHO! I would just shut down the borders except to a few key areas. A wall won't fix anything when you have people digging under it. turn the border into a military bombing range with minefield border issue fixed. I think the US did a lot better when it was run by farmers. A farmer is a businessman who knows how to use what they have on hand or did at one time without outsourcing every thing. I hate buying anything because everything is made somewhere else then package or assembled here then stamped made in America and even if it is made here it's owned by china under a german name. We should have a 100% standard were if it is made 100% in America it is stamped as so. We need to "stop importing" everything and start exporting again. OK rant of the day over I feel better! But I do get it dad works two jobs mom works one full time job I more or less run both farms and my parent still come to my house and do their grocery shopping sometimes.


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## GTX63 (Dec 13, 2016)

I believe the recipe is life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness; everything else is preferential and "season to taste". But if my neighbor is a lousy cook, or a lazy cook, I'll be more than happy to drop off a casserole when I have the time and inclination; just don't expect it and don't call the mayor and try to make me bake a pie too.


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## GTX63 (Dec 13, 2016)

KandCfamilyfarm said:


> OK rant of the day over I feel better! But I do get it dad works two jobs mom works one full time job I more or less run both farms and my parent still come to my house and do their grocery shopping sometimes.


KC, from several threads and posts, it would seem you have some poor soil. What would you have us do about it?


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## KandCfamilyfarm (Nov 4, 2017)

GTX63 said:


> KC, from several threads and posts, it would seem you have some poor soil. What would you have us do about it?


start flinging poo!!!!


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## KandCfamilyfarm (Nov 4, 2017)

GTX63 said:


> I believe the recipe is life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness; everything else is preferential and "season to taste". But if my neighbor is a lousy cook, or a lazy cook, I'll be more than happy to drop off a casserole when I have the time and inclination; just don't expect it and don't call the mayor and try to make me bake a pie too.


What about just the pie no casserole. I love me some pie!!!


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## GTX63 (Dec 13, 2016)

You should get over to the sunflower farm in Etowah. You are in the wrong business brother.


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## KandCfamilyfarm (Nov 4, 2017)

GTX63 said:


> You should get over to the sunflower farm in Etowah. You are in the wrong business brother.


Small world but why a sunflower farm?


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## ridgerunner1965 (Apr 13, 2013)

I used to work a lot of low pay jobs but always had a side hustle. I could fix your tractor,your car,your lawn mower etc.

I scratched up enuf money to buy a old dozer and backhoe. I went from there.

people lined up to hire me cuz they knew I was honest and I treated them good. 

I prob had tons of hrs in fixin my old equipment but I did it and made money.

anybody cud do the same.


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

KandCfamilyfarm said:


> start flinging poo!!!!


I hear you have to do that in the Dark Rooms.


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## KandCfamilyfarm (Nov 4, 2017)

Bearfootfarm said:


> I hear you have to do that in the Dark Rooms.


I haven't been accepted yet.


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## GTX63 (Dec 13, 2016)

Almost seems racist.


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## KandCfamilyfarm (Nov 4, 2017)

GTX63 said:


> Almost seems racist.


how so?


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## Tobster (Feb 24, 2009)

KandCfamilyfarm said:


> how so?


It struck me as a joke . . . a play on 'not being accepted' no acceptance by others because of race or religion.
Anyway, I chuckled.


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## KandCfamilyfarm (Nov 4, 2017)

Tobster said:


> It struck me as a joke . . . a play on 'not being accepted' no acceptance by others because of race or religion.
> Anyway, I chuckled.


Ya but it is what it is ya know. It's not my site I don't make the rules and this ain't Burger King.


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

KandCfamilyfarm said:


> I haven't been accepted yet.


Things move slow sometimes since most moderators are volunteers with no set schedules.


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## KandCfamilyfarm (Nov 4, 2017)

Bearfootfarm said:


> Things move slow sometimes since most moderators are volunteers with no set schedules.


Thats fine Im in no hurry.


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## Shrek (May 1, 2002)

KandCfamilyfarm,
As the members above mentioned, we moderators and admin come on site at different times of the day and if you have made request for access to the PRDC dark room board to admin, it is possible your request message got lost if admin received a number of messages during the day and possibly cleared out your request without normal access review as resolved messages were being cleared after being addressed and resolved.

As I pull site wide board reads during my generally normal graveyard shift moderator checks of the boards, I have sent your request for PRDC board access back to the mod/admin queue for review in case it was closed by accident as other issues were addressed and close from the active queue.


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## Farmerwilly2 (Oct 14, 2006)

HermitJohn said:


> So in your humble opinion, every man is an island and owes nothing to the society in which he lives? Law of the jungle, screw over your neighbor before he screws you. Climb to the top on the backs of others. Race the rats to grab the biggest piece of cheese. Yep right nice way to live.... if you are the head rat. Sucks for everybody else.


Since you don't live in my head I don't expect you to know my humble opinion, so I will try to 'splain it for you again. I have not met anyone who risked their money to start a business just so they could provide employment for someone else. Nor have I ever worked for a place that kept me in chains, forcing me to work for them. They started their company to make money, they hired me to help them do it and paid me for it. As for the society where I live I served it for 4 years, I donate both time and money to the charities that I support and I attempt to educate the ignorant in order to make it a nicer place to live. If your experience consists of folks screwing their neighbors over or climbing on their backs to snatch their piece of cheese I'd suggest you consider moving to a more civil area. Just not in my part of rural Kentucky as we are doing fine as is.


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