# Worms & Bottle jaw



## snkboers (Mar 27, 2011)

I have never had a goat with bottle jaw I do now I have never had worm problems you could not see in there eye I do Now Also have 1 doe with fish tail never had this before either . Took fecal Friday 2/10/12 3 samples out of six 1 I new would be high the other 2 I thought would be normal my normal was extremely high so I dose with 3 cc quest wormer and 1 that may be bred gave 4cc ivomec This was Sunday I still have bottle jaw and coats are still rough , ask vet a bought copper def in my area he said he has not seen it he is a cow doc does cooper def cause rough coats and bottle jaw is this something I should be concerned a bought, or is all of this from the worms .


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## madness (Dec 6, 2006)

The fish tail is from copper deficiency. We also don't have copper deficiency in our area per the vet, but clearly saw it in our goats. If you are bringing in most of your feed, it doesn't matter what the native vegetation has - it matters where your hay is grown!

Copper has also been linked to worm problems. People have claimed (possibly even been scientific studies, don't recall off the top of my head) that using copper boluses has reduced their need to deworm animals.

Worms are definitely the cause of the bottle jaw. Rough coat can be both worms and copper. It's going to take a while for the coats to look better. I'm not sure how long it takes for bottle jaw to go down.

Did you get the species of worms when you did the fecal? It's important to know what you are dealing with since some dewormers don't work with some parasites.


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## Alice In TX/MO (May 10, 2002)

What species/size/age of goats?

You might want to check this out so you don't under-dose.
http://www.dairygoatinfo.com/index.php?topic=8934.0

Here's the link to the copper info.
http://www.saanendoah.com/copper1.html

Yes, I think you have both problems going.


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## BackfourtyMI. (Sep 3, 2007)

That first link Alice posted is what I always refer to when needing dosagestoo. Great site. Also tells you what is safe for pregnant does', etc.

Sounds like you have parasite & copper deficency problems to me too. Copper boluses for your goats will help them but takes about 4 weeks before you see improvement usually. A loose mineral high in copper content, like 2000 ppm of copper or more should be left out 24/7 for your goats(out of the elements of course).
The Cargill brand mineral Right Now Onyx is great & I think pretty readily available in your area.


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## jessiesue (Jan 24, 2011)

We had bottle jaw a while back in a couple of our does, wormed with Ivermectin, and used Red sell. I really helped, but not over night. I believe without the red cell we would have lost one doe.


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## madness (Dec 6, 2006)

Jessiesue, how long did it take for the bottle jaw swelling to go down? Info for me to store away for use one day!


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## JBarGFarmKeeper (Nov 1, 2011)

Bottle jaw can come and go quickly. It can be gone overnight. However, not without immediate and intensive care. If you are to the "bottle jaw" stage your animals are EXTREMELY anemic and do need supplementation (Red Cell, B-12 shots) and adequate wormers and worming. When we had barber pole issues (nearly 2 years ago) the vet had us give Valbazen, Cydectin and Ivomec together for 5 days straight. He was SERIOUS! Doing nothing or "waiting to see" will get you dead goats with bottle jaw.

Here is part 1 of a series of articles that were printed online in the AGPA Newsletter. Very useful information on using copper wire particles to combat barber pole worms (stomach worms).

http://www.arkansasgoatproducers.com/AR_Goat_Gazette_june2010PDF.pdf


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## snkboers (Mar 27, 2011)

The 1 with bottle jaw is boer/kiko she weighs around 145 the rest are a bought the same weight range between 145 and 200 they act great eat good just appearance is off.and their eyes look great no sign of worm if I hadn't did the fecal I would have never known. 
Their ages are 1,2,3, and 6


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## snkboers (Mar 27, 2011)

The type of worm I am Dealing with is Nematodirus = thread-necked intestinal worm
I give them mana pro loose minerals I go thru 4 8oz cups a day never have this problem before where can I buy copper for them and how much do you give them . 
I think I have a bad Mineral deficiency . along with copper and worms


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## JBarGFarmKeeper (Nov 1, 2011)

snkboers said:


> The type of worm I am Dealing with is Nematodirus = thread-necked intestinal worm
> I give them mana pro loose minerals I go thru 4 8oz cups a day never have this problem before where can I buy copper for them and how much do you give them .
> I think I have a bad Mineral deficiency . along with copper and worms


You can buy the copper wire particles from Jeffers Vet supply online.

You have to weigh out the dose according to animal weight. Repackage into "00" capsules. 

Dosing information is in the series of articles I posted a link to earlier. When using copper as worm control, I understand, you give smaller doses more often. I have no experience in this area. I only bolus for supplementation.


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## Alice In TX/MO (May 10, 2002)

http://www.valleyvet.com/ct_detail.html?pgguid=2e87c3c9-7b6a-11d5-a192-00b0d0204ae5


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## BackfourtyMI. (Sep 3, 2007)

snkboers said:


> The type of worm I am Dealing with is Nematodirus = thread-necked intestinal worm
> I give them mana pro loose minerals I go thru 4 8oz cups a day never have this problem before where can I buy copper for them and how much do you give them .
> I think I have a bad Mineral deficiency . along with copper and worms


You mean your goats eat four 8 oz. cups a day of minerals? 

There have been quite a few threads here lately too about giving the copper rods in their favorite treats instead of the capsules. I'm not saying 1 way works better than the other but there have been some folks & a few articles written on the subject.
I don't have the links for that info but Alice might.


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## snkboers (Mar 27, 2011)

No I am sorroy typo but they have been the last 2weeks going thru that much in 2 to 3 days but that is 7 aldults and 9 3mnth old kids.


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## Alice In TX/MO (May 10, 2002)

Which goats have bottle jaw?


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## Alice In TX/MO (May 10, 2002)

http://www.goatspots.com/copper.html


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## LoneStrChic23 (Jul 30, 2010)

If it helps, heres my how to blog post on Copper Bolusing:

http://noodlevilleadventures.blogspot.com/2012/01/noodleville-how-to-copper-bolusing.html

Has pictures & links to where I order everything & how to dose (all words in orange are clickable links)

Once you get this issue under control, copper bolusing will help quite a bit to improve overall condition.... I use a high copper mineral & bolus my herd 3-4 times per year.

I second the reccomendation for the deworming link Alice shared.... Making sure to use the correct wormer at the proper dose is the key to getting this under control.

Good luck!!!


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## snkboers (Mar 27, 2011)

Thanks for all the info will try the copper going to do more fecals tomorrow and see if there is a change and reworm them as needed


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## Alice In TX/MO (May 10, 2002)

Asking again.... which goats have bottle jaw? Is it only the little ones?


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## Jyllie63 (Dec 30, 2004)

jessiesue said:


> We had bottle jaw a while back in a couple of our does, wormed with Ivermectin, and used Red sell. I really helped, but not over night. I believe without the red cell we would have lost one doe.


I totally agree. I treated my doe with ivomec plus AND redcell. It took a couple of weeks for the swelling to go away completely (seemed to always show up at night). And it seems that it took alot longer to get that nice pink returned to her membranes. I would fecal her and she didn't have worm problems, but the anemia was bad and it just took it's toll I guess. The good news is she did improve and is a sweetheart


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## JBarGFarmKeeper (Nov 1, 2011)

snkboers said:


> The 1 with bottle jaw is boer/kiko she weighs around 145 the rest are a bought the same weight range between 145 and 200 they act great eat good just appearance is off.and their eyes look great no sign of worm if I hadn't did the fecal I would have never known.
> Their ages are 1,2,3, and 6


Here's your answer, Alice.


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## snkboers (Mar 27, 2011)

There is only 1 that has bottle jaw she is a boer/kiko cross she is 3years old just kidded in dec. weight 145lbs


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## Alice In TX/MO (May 10, 2002)

I figured they didn't ALL have bottle jaw. 

Sort of hoping it was the little ones and milk goiter instead of bottle jaw.

Check your dosages on that chart on dairygoatinfo.com for that goat's weight.


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## BackfourtyMI. (Sep 3, 2007)

Alice your the best, that's the link I was talking about.

That is still a lot of mineral in such a few days even for that many goats. Hopefully once you can get them the copper rods, & worms under control that will subside & they'll all be doing a lot better.


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## Alice In TX/MO (May 10, 2002)

I have had chickens, cattle, horses, rabbits, and now goats. I swear goats are the most difficult!


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## PossumRidgeFarm (Feb 12, 2012)

We have had a couple of goats with bottlejaw and it does seem to come up in the evenings and go away by morning. Goes away quickly once the worms are taken care of.


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## jessiesue (Jan 24, 2011)

I had one doe that cleared up in about two days, the other was worse. The second does jaw went down fast, but took a few more days for her to quite acting off.


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