# Sustainable Forest Management.



## Rural Kanuck (Apr 13, 2020)

The above title means different things to different land owners so this could turn into a far ranging discussion, in my own case I manage more for ma nature than income so mature salable timber is generally left standing. The back 30 acres or so is mixed hardwood mostly Maple and Ash, the front aprox 15 is Pine that was planted under a ministry program back in 1978 at which time it was noted that "Woodlot was heavily logged some years ago”, little evidence of that remains now. The property itself is a rugged area of left over glacier till and 'drumlins' known as The Klondike Hills and registered under a Managed Forest plan. The following is an extract from the required ministry plan....

*1) Maintain a healthy forest by collecting and reading resource material and taking recognized courses in forest management. Then carry out sustainable forest management practices*

*2) Maintain and enhance wildlife habitat by the careful observance of existing species and non disturbance of same. Create nesting and den sites wherever practical with the use of brush, wild plantings, shrubs etc.*

*3) Develop a series of walking trails to enjoy the natural plant and wild life and minimize the impact upon the natural environment*

*4) Remove a limited amount of fuel wood each year for personal use. Use some thinned pine for pine limber for home construction.*

*5) Very selectively thin pine and usable hardwood as local markets are found to assist in providing income to maintain and enhance property.*

I will write more later about our efforts to follow that plan in the last 20 years since we bought the property which had seen little activity of any kind for some time when purchased. Feel free to ask about any aspects of that journey as we talk more about it.


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## Darren (May 10, 2002)

A local college has started a program in land management for wildlife. I've seen one book on managing for birds.

There's another book that includes four write ups of landowners that have successfully raised wild crafted ginseng in their wooded areas. The book went out of print and sellers were asking as much as $800 for a copy. It's back in print.

Most people that buy forested land start clearing without asking someone to cruise the property for the presence of herbal habitat.


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## GTX63 (Dec 13, 2016)

I try to observe habitats. We cut around certain plants, shrubs, flowers, etc. I girdle a few old oaks for den trees in the fall.
It seems I am constantly cutting or clearing trails; widening walk paths to accommodate UTV and splitters, opening up clearings to increase the sunlight on the forest floor. I thin my own timber as needed and sell what I don't need.
I have yet to find a logger that wouldn't leave the property looking like the aftermath of Gettysburg.
We have a few programs available that actually give financial support to maintain forestland. Unfortunately, one of the strings is that you must maintain a dedicated entrance for the public to access and enjoy, and invariably knock on my back door for the bathroom and a sandwich.


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## Fishindude (May 19, 2015)

We have a couple of our woodlands in Federal Classified forest programs. You get a nice tax reductiona nd there are very few restrictions, you just can't clear, build structures in woods, clear cut or graze livestock. You can still hunt, harvest firewood, log, etc. They do an anual inspection with recommendations. Biggest challenge for us has been control of invasive Asian Honeysuckle and killing wild grape vine.


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## Rural Kanuck (Apr 13, 2020)

I have read extensively on the forest flora and fauna and documented much of those found here over the last 20 years and will dig that info out at some point and share some of it with you guys. Our selection of ferns is also quite unusual for such a relatively small property.


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## GTX63 (Dec 13, 2016)

Fishindude said:


> We have a couple of our woodlands in Federal Classified forest programs. You get a nice tax reductiona nd there are very few restrictions, you just can't clear, build structures in woods, clear cut or graze livestock. You can still hunt, harvest firewood, log, etc. They do an anual inspection with recommendations. Biggest challenge for us has been control of invasive Asian Honeysuckle and killing wild grape vine.


My mother in law's property is ripe with Asian Honeysuckle. Cut it, burn it, spray it and sometimes it still comes back. I make a point to help clear it out when we visit over the winter and it remains green and easy to see once the trees drop their leaves.


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## Rural Kanuck (Apr 13, 2020)

GTX63 said:


> I have yet to find a logger that wouldn't leave the property looking like the aftermath of Gettysburg.
> We have a few programs available that actually give financial support to maintain forestland. Unfortunately, one of the strings is that you must maintain a dedicated entrance for the public to access and enjoy, and invariably knock on my back door for the bathroom and a sandwich.


The neighboring property was logged by one such contractor, what a mess. On the other hand the much larger and more rugged piece behind me was done by a contractor who barely let any damage to remaining growth AND check with me before starting on adjoining lot. Yep, I did keep his contact info!


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## Danaus29 (Sep 12, 2005)

Asian honeysuckle, Autumn olive and multiflora rose are a never ending battle. You can eliminate it from your property only to have a flock of birds come from far away and literally rain pooped out seeds onto your property. I heard such a "rain" a few weeks ago, wondered what it was. I almost put my hand out to catch some when several "drops" plopped on a leaf in front of me. 

I would love to have 30 acres of wooded wildlife habitat.


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## Fishindude (May 19, 2015)

GTX63 said:


> My mother in law's property is ripe with Asian Honeysuckle. Cut it, burn it, spray it and sometimes it still comes back. I make a point to help clear it out when we visit over the winter and it remains green and easy to see once the trees drop their leaves.


I've got a guy that comes in a sprays it during the summer months. Have had pretty decent success killing it, but it's something you have to stay on top of because it's still thick in all of the neighbors woodlots and spreads fast.


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## GTX63 (Dec 13, 2016)

It will sprout suckers about as soon as you have loaded up your tools and walked away. Cutting it down doesn't mean it is dead.
My nemesis is currently green briar. Clearing about 15 acres of timbers that hasn't been used by anything on two legs for decades. Greenbriar is a curse worse than asian honeysuckle, though I could see the two of them hugging and telling stories at their family reunion.


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## gilberte (Sep 25, 2004)

We've only got 15 acres but there are quite a few humongous white pines. We worry about a forest fire. Would have selective harvest done if we could find a responsible forester who wouldn't leave a big mess.


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## Rural Kanuck (Apr 13, 2020)

The 'trash' under our pine plantation is certainly a worry for if a fire ever got started there would be no stopping it, removing the lower dead branches that we can reach has permitted some deciduous regrowth in some areas which eases my mind a little, but in a dry year even the hardwood bush can become a tinder box. With a wood sided house and barn not far away the concern is always there in the back of my mind.


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## GTX63 (Dec 13, 2016)

gilberte said:


> We've only got 15 acres but there are quite a few humongous white pines. We worry about a forest fire. Would have selective harvest done if we could find a responsible forester who wouldn't leave a big mess.


I shouldn't have painted all loggers with one brush. There are good ones out there, but they are few. We have a man nearby who owns 4-5k acres who recently gave up trying to sell lots for a subdivision in one tract. He hired a land management company out of Florida who in turn brought in the slash and trash cutters. Yes, it is a mess. A year from now it will be greening over and not so glaringly awful. Some select cutting and he wouldn't have cashed out as well but it would have looked much better.


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## Rural Kanuck (Apr 13, 2020)

Trail Development

Before I talk more about our forest management plan I want to outline the difficulties presented by the land itself in getting any equipment close to any particular fallen or cankered tree for removal or for that matter just seeking a reasonable walking route. Whilst the front section of the property, where the pines are, is relatively level except for the 30' very steep slope between the upper and lower sections the remainder is a different matter entirely. If one was to walk straight back the aprox 2000' to the back you would walk around twice that, mostly scrambling up and down the steep sides of those 'drumlins' mentioned in the previous post.

The challenge I faced to plot a relatively level series of trails around those 'hills' in order to be able to develop trails around most of my property was considerable and involved any number of times I muttered 'nope that aint gona work'. I did eventually find a way back to most areas and establish a few walking trails some of which I was later able to make into usable access routes for a small tractor and trailer for wood removal. Some areas however are never going to be accessible by tractor and will remain a scramble on foot to check things out!

That tractor is fitted with a 300' winch line and despite that some fallen wood must be left to rot or cut up in place and carried to the nearest access point, as I do like to leave some such material for the birds and animals its no big deal to leave some stuff where it falls. Anyway a level woodlot would not be nowhere near as much 'fun' would it.......


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## Rural Kanuck (Apr 13, 2020)

Unlike some of you guys south of me we here have very few aggressive invasive plants in our bush, the worst I have see is a few wild grape that if left alone can, and have, climb to the very top of a 60' tree and develop a vine at the base up to several inches around. We do however have a big variety of more welcome plants which over the years I have attempted to identify and document

Here is a list of some of those plants found during our initial spring hikes around the property a few years ago, every year I spot a new (to me) woodland flower or plant but they do not always find their way into my database!...



Sedge (Narrow Leaved?), Sedge (Plantain Leaved), Wood Nettle, Trillium (White large), Bellwort (Large Flowered), Bellwort (Perfoliate), Indian Cucumber-Root?, Solomons Seal, Trout Lilly, Touch Me Not (Pale), Lady Slipper (Yellow), Celandine, Acrimony, Orchis (Showy), Violet (Smooth Yellow), Indian Pipe, Trillium (red large)



Bloodroot, Hepatica (Round Lobed), Hepatica (Sharp Lobed Double), Hepatica (Sharp Lobed), Violet (Canada), Violet (Sweet White), Ginger (Wild), Pipissewa?, Shinleaf (Pyrola), Pyrola (Round Leaf), Avens? (rough?), Dogbane (intermediate?), Anemone (Wood), Violet (Common Blue), Spring Beauty, Violet (Dog), Violet (Long-spurred),



Speedwell (Birds eye), Indian Tobacco (lobelia inflata), Mints (like downy wood?), Cohosh (Blue), Jack in the Pulpit, Helleborine, Orchis (Long-bracted) ?, Common Ragweed, Partridge berry, Snakeroot (White), Baneberry (Red), Baneberry (White), Waterleaf (Virginia), Waterleaf (Large Leaved, Mayflower (Canada), Solomons Seal (False), Foamflower, Dutchmans Breeches, Medow Rue (Early), Tall White Lettice, Lionsfoot, Squirrel Corn. Toothwort



I just cannot wait the month or so to pass when some of these plants will start to poke up through the leafy litter emerging from under the snow covering that still remains in some areas ….... and still being added to some mornings! Will try and post a few pics once I figure out how!


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## GTX63 (Dec 13, 2016)

Rural Kanuck said:


> Trail Development
> The challenge I faced to plot a relatively level series of trails around those 'hills' in order to be able to develop trails around most of my property was considerable and involved any number of times I muttered 'nope that aint gona work'. I did eventually find a way back to most areas and establish a few walking trails some of which I was later able to make into usable access routes for a small tractor and trailer for wood removal. Some areas however are never going to be accessible by tractor and will remain a scramble on foot to check things out!
> 
> That tractor is fitted with a 300' winch line and despite that some fallen wood must be left to rot or cut up in place and carried to the nearest access point, as I do like to leave some such material for the birds and animals its no big deal to leave some stuff where it falls. Anyway a level woodlot would not be nowhere near as much 'fun' would it.......


What sort of grade are you speaking regarding those slope/drop offs?
When I first began cutting new trails, I had several old (35 years) logging paths, which weren't much more that two ruts.
Since the trees tended to be a little smaller, I followed a few of those paths and began clearing. Where I have hills that enter a gorge or ravine or "holler" I cut the trails perpendicular to the slope. Only once did I terrace the side of a hill. The first time thru on a tractor was a little hairy and my hand was gripped tightly to the rear fenderwell for support. I used a backblade to angle cut and level the trail and hand dug when I couldn't.


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## Rural Kanuck (Apr 13, 2020)

In many places those 'little hummocks' are a 50% grade or better and nothing I would attempt to even drive straight up with a 4wd tractor, I simply take the trail around them whenever possible. I have had to hand dig / grade one cross hill walking path for about 50 feet just to be able to WALK from one area to the other, as I said previously the 300' winch line works for getting wood out in MOST but not all areas! Think I will pass on taking tractor across all but the most shallow slopes as have already hung onto a few fenders myself!


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## GTX63 (Dec 13, 2016)

Yep. I have a couple of slopes that when I first went up one I realized my hands and feet were both touching the ground at the same time. I have also hand dug a 75' trail with a shovel in order to create a walk path.
I showed my wife one after I had finished and her first response was, "That looks great honey. Now if only it were a little wider so we could get an atv on it."
That was the last time I used a shovel to carve a trail...


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## Rural Kanuck (Apr 13, 2020)

Yep, probably the best response would NOT have been to pass her the shovel eh!


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## brownegg (Jan 5, 2006)

Folks need to realize that a logger and a forester are two different things. The logger is the one hired to complete the harvest....without a forester involved in the harvest with a contract to follow, he (logger) does what he wants....and that's where the problem arises. The forester can have the harvest set up exactly how you want it done, with end results pleasing the land owner.....guidelines in the contract must be followed. The woods has to be left in the condition set in the contract.....I could go on and on....don't think a harvest can't be done without a rape job....it just isn't the truth.

be


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## Danaus29 (Sep 12, 2005)

I've got a ravine with a steep grade, hands and feet both touching the ground without bending over. I got lucky, there is a game trail through the woods. The game trail is narrow but can be walked by humans with just a bit of brush trimming.


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## Rural Kanuck (Apr 13, 2020)

Here in Ontario many, but not all, municipalities have tree cutting bylaws which dictate what and where trees can be cut and can dictate that a professional forestry consultant shall mark the trees suitable for cutting. Such is the case on my registered Managed Forrest where I receive a small reduction in taxes for said commitment and plan which is subject to regular updates to the ministry. The mixture of municipal by laws which vary from one place to the next and provincial laws and who governs in any particular situation makes it all very confusing and the guidance of a forestry professional to mark and oversee the harvest should be sought BEFORE hireling a logger unless you want the bush trashed!


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## Rural Kanuck (Apr 13, 2020)

As I said before many years ago the property was logged but a few Maples that go back many, many decades still stand. The largest of which makes visitors just stand in awe when first seen as it did myself, this picture shows it when first seen by us some 20 years ago, it is about 20' in circumference.


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## Rural Kanuck (Apr 13, 2020)

As I age I find that the drive to get out and actually DO something is directly UNproportional to my age, the desire is still there but the ambition, particularly in less than sunny and warm days is just not there any more after 20 years of developing the trails and 'managing' the wonderful rugged property. One of the things that 'gets me up off my behind' in the spring is preparing the trails for the occasional visitors and invited groups of nature enthusiasts that come to see our rather wonderful array of Trilliams, Trout Lillys, Violets and other woodland sights each spring. This year with the world wide 'lock down', which is no different for us here out in the woods of southern Ontario than anywhere else, its most improbable that that particular encouragement to get it done will occur, I am however determined to not let that stop me ….... now where did I leave that ambition, perhaps the sun will come out and shine some light on it!
How are your woodland projects coming along with the warming weather?


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## brownegg (Jan 5, 2006)

Plenty to do here with less ambition than needed to get some projects underway. Planting seedlings has been going on, but not nearly the numbers we usually do.
Being older though, it's nice to see the results every decade after the planting, with reminders that the work and effort does pay off for the generations to come.

be


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## gilberte (Sep 25, 2004)

I really enjoy this time of year. It's cool enough to do strenuous work and not sweat a lot. The blackflies and mosquitos aren't out to eat you alive. I've got the apple, pear, and peach trees pruned. Yesterday I took a walk along the brook bordering our property and cleared the trail. Also took the chainsaw and cleared pines away from some oak trees I'm trying to encourage.

Next week I'll have to turn my attentions to the garden.


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## Rural Kanuck (Apr 13, 2020)

Did get a little extra incentive to get out and check the trails today as another 'retiree' asked if she and a friend could get out of the city and walk our trails. My response was yes....but give me a week or so to see if they are in good shape and remove and fallen trees and the like that could be blocking the way. Its going to be a couple of weeks here anyway before the woodland flowers are in their full but brief glory, but now I have a really good incentive to get off my A... oops 'behind' and get back there n check things out..... 
Let me see, choices.... walking stick, snips and loppers, marking tape OR just camera?
Not quite ready for chain saw just yet!


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## brownegg (Jan 5, 2006)

Went the greenhouse yesterday and picked up a potted Cortland Apple tree....about a hour later it's in the ground and ready for the coming Spring rainfall. Most of my apple trees are over 40 years old and starting to die off. Time to replace them, if I want fresh apples. Suzie makes the best apple pie!

be


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## Rural Kanuck (Apr 13, 2020)

I have a couple of apple trees that are over 120 years old by ring count and still bear an abundance of fruit most years despite being hollow and the home for some of our local squirrel population. We think the variety is possibly 'Rambo' a heritage type but that's just about impossible to tell.


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## gilberte (Sep 25, 2004)

Those old apples trees are probably standard stock aren't they? Seems to me that the newer dwarf trees they came up with bear like the dickens for 10-15 years and then decline rapidly and die. At least that's been my experience.


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## Rural Kanuck (Apr 13, 2020)

We seem to have wandered out of the woods with this thread but thats ok we will get back there again shortly. Yes those old apple trees are 'standards' and huge at about 40' x 20', a nearby winter pear is of similar size and age, each winter I expect to see them not return to life for one reason or another, but they seem to keep hanging in.


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## Rural Kanuck (Apr 13, 2020)

Took a couple of walks back around the trails last week or so, the second time to guide a couple of visitors who needed to 'get out of town' for a bit (yes social distancing in full effect). The Trout Lillys are out but the masses of Trilliams are just barely showing colour, should be out next week once this weekends frost lets better temps return.

One or two fallen dead trees across the trail that will have to be dealt with but very few compared with some previous years, much green growth makes it hard to tell where trail are if not tagged, Leeks & Cohosh quite thick in spots. Ahhh, that spring feeling feels SO good!


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## brownegg (Jan 5, 2006)

Yep, the leeks are plentiful and the trilliums are starting to bloom. I have so much firewood to make, but hate to trod on all the new Spring growth everywhere here. I try to cut firewood that will cause the least damage to the tender Spring floral. The morels should start to pop up shortly...however a nice warm rain would be their friend and promote their start.
I take nice long walks everyday in the woods...what a peaceful pleasant place it is at daybreak.

be


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## Rural Kanuck (Apr 13, 2020)

I will admit to being a bit 'anal' about doing minimal damage when removing dead or damaged trees for firewood from my hardwood bush the state of what is left being more important to me than the speed or ease of removal. I built a specialized trailer so that I could winch logs to me and then up on it so as to not be in and out dragging logs down the trails, which as you say are covered with natures green growth this time of year. As I can get quite a few 10 or 12 foot logs on it trips in and out of my lengthy trails which wind around many gullies and humps are substantially reduced. Not everybody's typical way of doing things but it works for me AND Ma Nature!


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## Rural Kanuck (Apr 13, 2020)

Conducted a tour of some of our trails for a limited group of folks this morning, the Trilliums are now almost out along with the sun and its warming up to above 10c this afternoon. Have a group from the Field Naturalists coming through early next week as we try and balance the need for social separation with the calls to see our spectacular woodland plant and wildflower display. Very little winter damage seen so far but have yet to get to walk all the trails towards the back of our property.


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## brownegg (Jan 5, 2006)

The Winter damage here was quite severe in regards to the heavy snowfall and high winds that tipped over many white pines and white ash trees. It will take me quite a while to get all the trees cleaned up. I aged one white ash at 107 years old....kinda shame it went over with the root ball. Seems like the winds here are more extreme than they use to be in the past.

be


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## Rural Kanuck (Apr 13, 2020)

Took that hike to the very back Saturday and saw lots of standing dead trees that were no longer standing but will be future firewood. Fortunately non of them had fallen across the trail so just a few smaller branches had to be moved aside which was just as well given that old legs apparently are not quite ready for strenuous exercise after a long winter sitting around! Four group hikes now scheduled for next little while (whilst still practicing 'social distancing') so I had best get used to it......


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## brownegg (Jan 5, 2006)

I'm afraid to even go take the long walk to the back after the weather we are having as I type. The last two days have been high winds of 30 to 40 plus mph winds and pouring rain. That's the perfect recipe for knocking trees over...I'm sure we have more down than we already had. The chainsaw will be getting no rest at all. Neither will I.

be


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## Rural Kanuck (Apr 13, 2020)

Just completed TWO tours of our forested hideaway for Ontario Field Naturalist members and as rain largely missed us and sun came out for the second group it was a good hike with the Trillium's now fully out and covering large areas of our rugged property with colour. I enjoy sharing our wonderful nature 'reserve' but my legs sure don't after 6 months or more on inactivity, more to come as outdoor walks sure are popular right now!


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## brownegg (Jan 5, 2006)

Nice pic for sure. We have the white variety here, but are just beautiful too this special time of the year. I needed to get some wood out of the woods that I cut last fall...the leeks are everywhere and smell wonderful if you happen to step on them.

be


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## Florian Collonge (Mar 27, 2020)

Very nice pic, this flower is beautiful


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## brownegg (Jan 5, 2006)

In regards to the sustainable forest Kanuck...my daughter is a Wisconsin DNR forest manager in our area. Due to the covid19 the Wi DNR has 20,000 unclaimed white pine seedlings that need to get into the ground soon. I helped with claiming 100 and will get them planted this week. The virus has made a impact even in the forest industry....usually during normal times, the trees would have been gone weeks ago, and you couldn't procure any even if you wanted them.

be


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## Rural Kanuck (Apr 13, 2020)

brownegg said:


> In regards to the sustainable forest Kanuck...my daughter is a Wisconsin DNR forest manager in our area. Due to the covid19 the Wi DNR has 20,000 unclaimed white pine seedlings that need to get into the ground soon. be


About 15 acres of my land was planted with white pines under a ministry program about 45 years ago and has never been thinned except for me taking a few for personal use (house and garage construction & siding). In the early 90s they got set back by a major infestation of budworm as shown by them all branching at about 20', they are now 'self thinning' as those shorter ones not getting enough light simply die off. Where I trimmed all the lower branches on some of them a few years back there seems to be less die back and the deciduous regrowth is considerably more than where I did not.


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## brownegg (Jan 5, 2006)

Forest canopy is really a important issue when it comes to regeneration. Some trees like sugar maple and balsam have no problem growing and thriving in the shade of the canopy, however the sun loving trees like the pines and oaks simply can't regenerate until they have the sunshine.
Soil types also make a huge difference. Over 40 years ago I planted 500 red pines in clay soil. While the trees didn't die, they will never be timber worthy, but do provide wildlife shelter, so not a total loss, but a lesson learned too.
I've said this in the past. Folks should live 200 years. First 100 to plant the trees and another 100 years to be able to enjoy their majesty.

be


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## Rural Kanuck (Apr 13, 2020)

brownegg said:


> I've said this in the past. Folks should live 200 years. First 100 to plant the trees and another 100 years to be able to enjoy their majesty.
> be


I have a couple of apple trees and a pear tree that the pioneers in this area planted over 100 years ago, the apples still bear an abundance of fruit most years and the hollow trunks raise a number of squirrels also! There are also one or two Maples that are pre-pioneer times one of which is pictured in an earlier post in this thread. Apr 18, 2020 #23

As for sticking around for 200 years at ¾ the way through my first 100 I think I will just enjoy the now and preserve what I have here for my offspring and future visitors.


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## Rural Kanuck (Apr 13, 2020)

Several long walks around the trails last week as leading three different groups of Field Naturalists members who wished to escape the recent lock-downs. The Trilliums and Trout Lilliys were both in full flower and everything in general was greening up with many Leeks, Cohosh, Violets and other spring growth starting to cover the trails. Little harder to show folks all that is to be seen whilst maintaining that 'social distancing' thing but great group of knowledgeable enthusiasts and I learned as much as I gave out. Did see two dead standing trees near the pond which will have to be dealt with as don't really want them IN the little pond half way back which is the only standing water on the property available for the critters..
Requests for further hike have been received and I will try and accommodate them in the future but not all in one week as in the unexpected large response to the last offer!


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## 355946 (Mar 23, 2013)

https://photos.app.goo.gl/hrgQRmS9HW5shh4R6

Purple and white “Trillia” if that’s a word. I have lost the battle against yellow archangel but I did mulch around this plant, hoping I will see it next Spring as well.


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## brownegg (Jan 5, 2006)

Nice to hear that the tours are happening during all this turmoil RK. Sharing the property for others to see is a kind gesture on your part.....really a mile away from the posted land mindset. While I don't allow random folks trespassing, I'm sure you also expect the knowledge of someone on your property. My point is that most aren't as generous with sharing their property as you are...kudos to you!

be


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## Rural Kanuck (Apr 13, 2020)

brownegg said:


> Nice to hear that the tours are happening during all this turmoil RK. Sharing the property for others to see is a kind gesture on your part.....really a mile away from the posted land mindset. While I don't allow random folks trespassing, I'm sure you also expect the knowledge of someone on your property. My point is that most aren't as generous with sharing their property as you are...kudos to you!
> 
> be


Let me be quite clear my property is posted no trespassing at the road and private property at the driveway mostly to discourage 'hunters' some of whom dont seem to respect other folks land. I value the deer, fox and other wildlife that I see wander through every so often, and enjoy the sharing of knowledge from my invited guests who are all 'nature enthusiasts' of one sort of another. I just wish that Chipmunk and Squirrel could read and I would up a sign up on the bird feeders!


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## Rural Kanuck (Apr 13, 2020)

Have another small group coming through Monday to see the changes since they visited in the fall so went for a hike with my granddaughter to see where things stand. The Trilliums and Trout Lilly are done flowering but the Showy Orchids that come up every year alongside the trail are in full flower.


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## Fishindude (May 19, 2015)

We have quite a problem with Asian bush Honeysuckle here in the midwest. Don't think we'll ever get rid of it or stop it all together, but we put some effort into keeping it in check. Just met with forrester this morning, he's going to work over 40 acres of our place and zap it all this summer. Have been doing a chunk of ground every year or two as we can afford it, making some headway.


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## Rural Kanuck (Apr 13, 2020)

A number of years ago I planted (gasp) several Bush Honeysuckle around the bush lines near our house, perhaps they are not an invasive variety or don't spread in our climate for I have seen no sign of spreading by suckers or seeding although a cutting re-roots quite readily.

Update, just checked they are the Tartarian and whilst multiple stemmed at the base and now quite large, I see no suckers or self seeding going on....... strange!


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## brownegg (Jan 5, 2006)

In regards to the invasive species here, we have a huge problem with buckthorn. It takes over and regeneration simply can't happen where the buckthorn is allowed to grow.
The white pine seedlings that I planted a while ago are all shooting new sprouts. The rain has been really helpful with it's timing so far for the newbies.

be


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## muleskinner2 (Oct 7, 2007)

gilberte said:


> We've only got 15 acres but there are quite a few humongous white pines. We worry about a forest fire. Would have selective harvest done if we could find a responsible forester who wouldn't leave a big mess.


I just noticed this thread, so sorry for the late reply. Aren't there any horse loggers left in Main?


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## Rural Kanuck (Apr 13, 2020)

muleskinner2 said:


> I just noticed this thread, so sorry for the late reply. Aren't there any horse loggers left in Main?


I dont know about in Maine but here in this part of SW Ontario there is a sizable Mennonite community who use horse drawn logging and I for one, if and when I need to remove some trees, will be contacting them. It may take a little more time but the damage to the surrounding growth is considerably less, just depends if you are managing for nature or profit I gess!


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## muleskinner2 (Oct 7, 2007)

Rural Kanuck said:


> I dont know about in Maine but here in this part of SW Ontario there is a sizable Mennonite community who use horse drawn logging and I for one, if and when I need to remove some trees, will be contacting them. It may take a little more time but the damage to the surrounding growth is considerably less, just depends if you are managing for nature or profit I gess!


I have a draft horse and all of my dad's old logging equipment. Too bad we are so far apart. If you have a horse logger do it, have it done in the winter. After green up in the spring there will be almost no marks on the ground. When they have all of the logs out, have them pull the tops out to the road. Makes it east to cut up for firewood after it dries.


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## Rural Kanuck (Apr 13, 2020)

muleskinner2 said:


> I have a draft horse and all of my dad's old logging equipment.


I do hope you can continue you fathers tradition, I am of the belief that such practices may well become increasing important as the '**** hit the fan' and over use of natural resources make such choices important for those of us who 'care'!


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## muleskinner2 (Oct 7, 2007)

Rural Kanuck said:


> I do hope you can continue you fathers tradition, I am of the belief that such practices may well become increasing important as the 'poop hit the fan' and over use of natural resources make such choices important for those of us who 'care'!


I have a small job lined up for next winter. They will cut it down, and I will skid everything to the road. Twenty acres of old growth pine. They are going to take about half of it out. My job will be to skid the logs and tops out, without tearing up the trees we leave.


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## brownegg (Jan 5, 2006)

I would hire a draft horse team in the minute I knew one was available for hire. They truly are the least invasive way of timber harvest...hands down. 

be


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## Rural Kanuck (Apr 13, 2020)

Leading a group around our trails last week I see that I must mow the main trails very shortly for in some places the new growth is quickly taking over making it tough to see exactly where they are particularly on the narrower walking trails. Hate to cut anything down but trimming the established paths is necessary to maintain the established routes, I will however be cutting around the Showy Orchids and Harts Tongue ferns and other relatively rare plants I see each year.


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## Wyobuckaroo (Dec 30, 2011)

Rural Kanuck, sounds like your bush there on the north shore is similar to ours, only our hills are bigger.. 

Places here I have cut and removed slash brush, cut some firewood in areas that now have a nice grass undergrowth.. 

I am going to have to find a product, with the affect of Tordon to paint the cut off parts of brush so it doesn't sprout suckers as soon as I walk away.. Not sure what will work, or what is available..


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## Rural Kanuck (Apr 13, 2020)

Wyobuckaroo said:


> Rural Kanuck, sounds like your bush there on the north shore is similar to ours, only our hills are bigger..
> 
> Places here I have cut and removed slash brush, cut some firewood in areas that now have a nice grass undergrowth..
> 
> I am going to have to find a product, with the affect of Tordon to paint the cut off parts of brush so it doesn't sprout suckers as soon as I walk away.. Not sure what will work, or what is available..


In my open areas around the house its not so much sucker growth but self seeding, mostly in the flower gardens, although one large Ash cut last year is now a bush. I have just removed dozens of Ash, Pine and Spruce seedlings from the garden some of which were potted on and quickly grabbed by some of my in town visitors. Back in the bush an occasional mowing seems to keep the trails clear of most saplings and elsewhere I mostly just let nature do its thing.

I try and avoid the use of herbicides but sometimes it the only way to hold Ma Nature in check eh.


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## Wyobuckaroo (Dec 30, 2011)

sometimes it the only way to hold Ma Nature in check eh.
++++++++
Yes.. The biggest problem is keeping my fence lines clear and not pushing fencing down. So in places I have to keep an open area on the back side of the fence as well. Both sides of the fence being ours.


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## Rural Kanuck (Apr 13, 2020)

My biggest challenge right now is to keep the wild (and 'escaped domestic') grape in check along the edge of the open areas where there is sufficient sunlight for it to flourish a little too much. The amount of growth a grape vine can put on in a couple of months come spring is considerable and if not cut back by next year it will have covered any decorative shrub that was planted in that area, even if one is able to spray it without killing the bush its overtaking the darn stuff seems to come back the following year just as aggressively. Cutting off at the base slows it down but given that it roots from 'runners' its a never ending chore, back in the bush I don't mind a few 'climbers' (and there are some that are several inches around and to the top of a 60' tree) but don't really need them taking over the limited clearing we do have around the house!


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## muleskinner2 (Oct 7, 2007)

GTX63 said:


> My mother in law's property is ripe with Asian Honeysuckle. Cut it, burn it, spray it and sometimes it still comes back. I make a point to help clear it out when we visit over the winter and it remains green and easy to see once the trees drop their leaves.


Goats can work magic, they turn weeds into milk and meat.


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## GTX63 (Dec 13, 2016)

I'd love to drop off a few pigs and goats at her place. 
She stopped tended to farm critters around 1956 and I think that she intends to continue the streak.


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## Rural Kanuck (Apr 13, 2020)

With a couple of groups of nature enthusiasts scheduled to walk our trails to see what fall has to offer I must get back there and check that there are no major obstructions since last there. The area at the very back of the property we call 'fern gully' for the abundance and variety of ferns that cover the forest floor there is a must see this time of year and its been some time since I have been back that far. My time as been taken up with bringing out the logs from several fallen trees a little nearer the 'woodyard' where I block and split them before taking to the woodshed for stacking ready for winter use. Not my favorite job but free (if we dont count the cost in sweat and sore backs) wood is not to be wasted!

There was a time when I could name the almost 20 different kinds of ferns to be seen but I fear that my passing years have seen my ability to remember such details fade, even recollecting the names of more easily identified plants seen on the forest floor is becoming harder each year. For the most part as I point out the various fall growth I must now say 'look there, sorry I dont remember what its called' or stop and read through my database list to see if that jogs my memory. Frustrating!


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## Rural Kanuck (Apr 13, 2020)

It is now 6 months since I last added a few words to this thread, hardly surprising as those wonderful walking trails have been buried under layers of snow and my days of snowshoeing are a thing of the past. There is however still some items about our trails and bush that need attention and one such 'chore' was recently brought to my attention with a letter from the Ministry of Natural Resources requiring me to update my Management Plan.

Here in Ontario there is a program whereby owners of forestry lands can get a substantial reduction of the taxes charged on said land under certain conditions which at first glance do not seem to difficult to achieve. They are:- have more than 10 acres of land, have a commitment to good land ownership and have an approved managed forest plan. My property has been under such a plan for many years even prior to my purchasing it, said plan must be updated and approved every 5 years to continue to receive the tax reduction benefit.

A couple of weeks ago I received a reminder that my plan must be updated this year before July 31st or it will expire so review and update I must and then forward my plans to my Lands and Forrest Consultant for submission to the ministry for approval. The only difficulty I am having with this is that not only is a 5 year detailed plan required but a 10 year more general plan be included, at 75 years old how the H do I know what the situation both personally and on this property will be in 10 years?

I just know that the report on 'activities' will be considerably reduced!
I will post more on my proposed 'plan' as I get it figured out …..stay tuned......


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## Danaus29 (Sep 12, 2005)

Fill it out with regard to what your 10 year plan would be if you were 55 instead of 75. If you happen to expire before the end of the agreement it's highly unlikely they can come after your for your failure to *live* up to the agreement.


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## Rural Kanuck (Apr 13, 2020)

Danaus29 said:


> Fill it out with regard to what your 10 year plan would be if you were 55 instead of 75. If you happen to expire before the end of the agreement it's highly unlikely they can come after your for your failure to *live* up to the agreement.


This is true LOL .....but given that I think my plan is to do next to nothing but walk the trails and pick up a few sticks we should be ok even if I aint around to do that eh!


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## Danaus29 (Sep 12, 2005)

Add watching for and removing invasive non-native plants and your plan should be complete.


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## doc- (Jun 26, 2015)

PBS here runs a series from UW Extension...Several good presentations on woodland management-
Engineering and Innovation in Response to COVID-19 (pbswisconsin.org) (Ignore the title in the link. Click on it and scroll down a couple inches to the search bar and fill in "Forest Management."


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## GTX63 (Dec 13, 2016)

I should have posted this a lot sooner. Tom Wessels is a terrestrial ecologist and Antioch University New England professor emeritus. He has authored five books and is a wonderful teacher in layman's terms about what is happening inside of your forest.
He would be the CSI of timberland. Great channel with lots of good information.

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## Rural Kanuck (Apr 13, 2020)

Thanks for the links guys, any and all info is always helpful to those of us who care for our forested lands.
The snow pack is receding fast and I will be able to get the old bones that have been stuck inside for far too long to stumble around the trails and check what needs doing soon. Just reissued the invite to our local Field Naturalists group to come share our trails and sights of spring growth soon to be seen.
Ahhh Spring is within reach......


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## Rural Kanuck (Apr 13, 2020)

Well time just flys by eh, its now spring and the Red & White Trilliums and the Trout Lillies are brightening up the bush but I have had little time to just wander around and enjoy... I simply cannot believe the number of trees with the tops broke off over the winter. I was not a harsh winter with less snow than usual and few story days (that I remember) but each time I go back to remove a fallen or damaged tree for fuel wood I see several more that should be taken care off. Naturally most of them are in the more inaccessible places and must be winched out or cut up in place a carried out..... or left for Ma Nature to take care off as she wishes!
Still awaiting word as to when the Managed Forrest assessment and renewal inspection will take place.


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## muleskinner2 (Oct 7, 2007)

Rural Kanuck said:


> Trail Development
> 
> Before I talk more about our forest management plan I want to outline the difficulties presented by the land itself in getting any equipment close to any particular fallen or cankered tree for removal or for that matter just seeking a reasonable walking route. Whilst the front section of the property, where the pines are, is relatively level except for the 30' very steep slope between the upper and lower sections the remainder is a different matter entirely. If one was to walk straight back the aprox 2000' to the back you would walk around twice that, mostly scrambling up and down the steep sides of those 'drumlins' mentioned in the previous post.
> 
> ...



You need to find a horse logger.


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## Rural Kanuck (Apr 13, 2020)

muleskinner2 said:


> You need to find a horse logger.


If and when I take out more than the occasional damaged tree (which at this point I do not intend to do) there are a number on Mennonite logger / saw mills in the area who will be able to accommodate me I am sure!


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## Rural Kanuck (Apr 13, 2020)

Its been a while since I updated this thread but I can now report that my Managed Forest Plan as been updated and is now in awaiting Ministry approval so that I can get a modest tax reduction for the next few years. I do not foresee and problems in that regard, my plans to cut some of the larger pines out and let a little more light into that part of my property planted with pines 45 years ago and not thinned since seemed to meet with approval from my forester adviser.

I just had a 'Modern Mennonite' logger in yesterday to look things over and was quite pleased with what seemed to be the way he will go about taking the bigger and forked trees out first, pile the brush and smaller unusable stuff in one area and do it with minimal damage to remaining trees and deciduous regrowth as much as possible. Time will tell of course but he does use a smaller skid steer which fits between the rows so unlike the 'big boys' does not have to clear cut rows and trample much down to get the job done

It also remains to be seen exactly how much lumber will go on the trucks and how many $$$ will make it into my pocket after everybody else gets their cut, which includes the County for permits to remove said trees. That is not particularly the main incentive to cut, a future healthy mixed forest for my kids to inherit is more in my mind but I sure wont say no to a few extra dollars...............


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## GTX63 (Dec 13, 2016)

My neighbor has had a crew working off and on at his place. They are dropping red oak, white oak and yellow pines and transporting to the mill. I believe they are paying 55 cents a board foot for many of his trees.


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## Rural Kanuck (Apr 13, 2020)

Older thread just updated.....
Those of us that work with nature rather than destroy it will know that its an ongoing never ending commitment and so I am resurrecting this thread rather than starting a new one.

Since the last update almost a year ago most of my attention has been attempting to get the pine plantation thinned to permit more deciduous regrowth, so far without a great deal of success. The Mennonite logger mentioned in the previous post appears to now be more reluctant to thin the branched and crooked pines despite his earlier verbal commitment to mark and harvest the 10 acres of older pines. Here in this county and in much of ontario whilst landowner can cut trees for personal use 'harvesting' by outside individuals requires a permit which in turn requires that the tress to be removed be 'marked' and then approved by the county inspector. This is true for all major harvesting operations but in the case of a 'managed Forrest' (which get the landowner a tax reduction if adhered to) failure to do this would result in removal from forest managed forest status and loss of tax reduction (which is not enormous but every little helps).

My regular Forester who approves my forestry plan that is required to get that reduction wanted $50 an acre to mark it, that would perhaps exceed the cash that the logger would pay for the lumber removed however the Mennonite logger said that he would mark it and pay me $40 a bush cord for lumber removed. That sounded good but appears to have fallen through as no further action from him last fall and winter when harvesting is normaly done, also a neighbor who also contacted him with a similar plantation was told 'it not worth my while'. Looks like its a case of just let them die and 'self thin' from over crowding, were I younger I would cut some myself and bring in a portable mill and make some boards or lumber for 'my own use' but still have some left from my last project (garage / workshop) and simply not up to adding to my 'to be done' list!

Meanwhile spring is finally here the woodland flowers are emerging and I have a number of folks from the local Field Naturalists coming through next week.


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