# What if you could NOT live in USA/Canada? Where would you choose



## Freya (Dec 3, 2005)

Ok a "what if" scenerio.



What if you could no longer live in the USA or Canada? For whatever reason you wish to think about.


Say you HAD to pick another country to spend out the rest of your life and any possible "end" or "break down" scenarios.


Where in the world would you pick???? I am pretty stumped myself. lol (Yes quite like those school games of what one item would you take on a deserted island. I am curious to see where everyone would pick)


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## mightybooboo (Feb 10, 2004)

Australia for fiscal responsibility and nice people,Mex coast for cheap retirement.And nice people again.


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## belladulcinea (Jun 21, 2006)

New Zealand or Costa Rica.


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## ryanthomas (Dec 10, 2009)

Belize, Nicaragua, Colombia, Ecuador, St. Kitts & Nevis, Hungary, Austria, Hong Kong, the Philippines, on a sailboat. All good options. Probably many more out there.


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## Just Cliff (Nov 27, 2008)

Australia. Lots of open land. Lots of water for sailing. Opal mines for hobby mining. Nice straight forward people.


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## Pam6 (Apr 9, 2009)

Australia...not sure how I would get there though.


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## Just Cliff (Nov 27, 2008)

Pam6 said:


> Australia...not sure how I would get there though.


Maybe we could build a sailing ship to carry our preps and equipment to the new world!


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## jessimeredith (Sep 12, 2004)

If international travel were still possible, chuck me in with the Aussies. If not, I'd stay right here in Germany, just further south than where we are now...I love Bavaria!


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## Sunbee (Sep 30, 2008)

Well, my husband came from overseas, so that'd be one option. A bit hot and humid for my tastes. The other option, oddly, is that the country my grandparents came from allows return, no questions asked (or very few, the form is one page), for descendents of emigrants through my generation, and their families. A bit cold for my husband's tastes.
Those two countries would be the first choices simply because they'd be easy to do legally, and we have relatives there still who would be willing to help us get situated. 
If you have fairly recent European ancestry, you might look at if there's a similar program for emigrants' descendents that you and yours would be eligible for. It might not be the ideal place to be in all circumstances, but depending on why you needed/wanted to leave your current country, it might be a good option.


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## Pam6 (Apr 9, 2009)

Just Cliff said:


> Maybe we could build a sailing ship to carry our preps and equipment to the new world!


It will be more like the Ark! I can't possibly go without my goaties and rabbits and turkeys and chickens!!


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## earthkitty (Mar 3, 2011)

Panama.


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## mightybooboo (Feb 10, 2004)

Just Cliff said:


> Maybe we could build a sailing ship to carry our preps and equipment to the new world!


:hysterical:ound:


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## Cabin Fever (May 10, 2002)

Israel.


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## Fowler (Jul 8, 2008)

Cabin Fever said:


> Israel.


Infidel :hysterical:ound::hysterical:ound:


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## whiskeylivewire (May 27, 2009)

Ireland, I am coming home....or the Scottish Highlands.


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## machinist (Aug 3, 2010)

If I had the choice, Australia would be my pick for many reasons. I've always loved those folks! 

But moving is not an option for us. Whatever happens, will happen right here.


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## 7thswan (Nov 18, 2008)

Australia, do you guys know how many Deadly/Poisonous things live There?


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## Farmerwilly2 (Oct 14, 2006)

Depends on the extradition laws. and the customs folks. If it gets bad enough for me to have to leave I'll be totin a sack full of gold teeth. and a gun.


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## HeelSpur (May 7, 2011)

I had a great time when I was in Perth, so I would also have to say Australia.


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## oregon woodsmok (Dec 19, 2010)

Uruguay.

Or if I could leave with lots of money, Curacao.


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## Wags (Jun 2, 2002)

Israel, Ethiopia, Costa Rica, Panama


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## time (Jan 30, 2011)

If my current financial situation remained the same, as in the income continues, I'd go to a very poor location with with average monthly incomes in the tens or hundreds of dollars. Without friends and close family, I'd do this anyway.


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## Darren (May 10, 2002)

Ukraine, a few hours inland from the Black Sea. Or maybe in the Crimean Mountains in the East.


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## mekasmom (Jan 19, 2010)

Freya said:


> Ok a "what if" scenerio.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Mexico would be my first choice... close, easy to get to, laid back, decent medical services. I like the culture and the people.

Second choice would be Costa Rica for the same reasons mentioned above.


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## NickieL (Jun 15, 2007)

Sweeden.

I love swiss cheese.


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## farmergirl (Aug 2, 2005)

NickieL said:


> Sweeden.
> 
> I love swiss cheese.


But the Swiss are in Switzerland


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## naturelover (Jun 6, 2006)

Darren said:


> Ukraine a hours inland from the Black Sea. Or maybe in the Crimean Mountains in the East.


Darren, you beat me to it. Ukraine is where I would go also, probably back to the homeland of my father's Zaporozhian Cossack ancestors. I could never tolerate to live in any of the hot countries like other people are mentioning and Ukraine has a lovely temperate climate that is nearly identical to the climate I'm accustomed to. The Ukrainians are all wonderful people, the rural countrysides are stunning in their beauty, it's an agriculturists dream land and there is old world culture intermixed with modern culture and technology.

.


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## Wisconsin Ann (Feb 27, 2007)

Fiji. back to nature. year round temperate. 

Or Ireland. Loved it there.


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## Win07_351 (Dec 7, 2008)

Southern Greenland


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## bigfoot2you (Oct 3, 2007)

Germany, Switzerland, Ireland or Scotland...........


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## Cornhusker (Mar 20, 2003)

I think I'd skip Australia, too restrictive, and too many poison snakes, frogs and lizards.
Don't get me wrong, I like the people, but their gun control is idiotic.
I don't know where I'd go, I would need to research more.
Just on culture and geography, I really like Slovenia but I have no what their government is like.


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## naturelover (Jun 6, 2006)

Cornhusker said:


> I think I'd skip Australia, too restrictive, and too many poison snakes, frogs and lizards.
> Don't get me wrong, I like the people, but their gun control is idiotic.
> I don't know where I'd go, I would need to research more.
> Just on culture and geography, I really like Slovenia but I have no what their government is like.


If firearms laws are important to you then I guess it would have to be Czech Republic for you Corny. Nowhere else besides USA has less restrictive firearms laws than Czech Republic, not even Switzerland.

.


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## Roadking (Oct 8, 2009)

Hog Cay, Bahamas. It's for sale again (don't ask...high $). My dad almost bought it 20 years aro, but the "99 year lease" was kinda hard to actually verify.
Water cisterns, a 3/4 moon bay with tons of lobster, full of ferral hogs...ahhh my paradise.
Granted, closest "grocery" store is 30 miles by boat and hurricanes are rampant.
Heck, live for the moment in this scnario...LOL!


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## Cornhusker (Mar 20, 2003)

naturelover said:


> If firearms laws are important to you then I guess it would have to be Czech Republic for you Corny. Nowhere else besides USA has less restrictive firearms laws than Czech Republic, not even Switzerland.
> 
> .


Liberty is important to me.


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## elliemaeg (May 1, 2005)

Israel along with all family members.


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## Darren (May 10, 2002)

naturelover said:


> Darren, you beat me to it. Ukraine is where I would go also, probably back to the homeland of my father's Zaporozhian Cossack ancestors. I could never tolerate to live in any of the hot countries like other people are mentioning and Ukraine has a lovely temperate climate that is nearly identical to the climate I'm accustomed to. The Ukrainians are all wonderful people, the rural countrysides are stunning in their beauty, it's an agriculturists dream land and there is old world culture intermixed with modern culture and technology.
> 
> .


Ukraine is also a country which has the mix of resources that can make it self-sufficient. Ukraine still has the heavy industry and manufacturing base this country has lost and a very reasonable cost of living.


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## PrincessFerf (Apr 25, 2008)

The mountains of Austria or the west coast of Ireland.

I'm so accustomed to the snowy winters, I don't think I'd like being in a tropical area. Ireland doesn't get winters anywhere close to Wisconsin, but I could farm there happily.


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## TNHermit (Jul 14, 2005)

whiskeylivewire said:


> Ireland, I am coming home....or the Scottish Highlands.


Pick me up on the way. Allready making chests for my carpentry and joinery tools


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## Ohio dreamer (Apr 6, 2006)

ryanthomas said:


> Belize, Nicaragua, Colombia, Ecuador, St. Kitts & Nevis, *Hungary*, Austria, Hong Kong, the Philippines, on a sailboat. All good options. Probably many more out there.


We lived in Hungary for 2 1/2 years. It wouldn't be on my list! High income tax rate (52%), 60-75% of the population need second a job that pays "under the table" just to keep selves fed, house and clothed. Jobs pay about 60% of what they do in the US...but food, rent and utilities cost the same or more then the US. The 2000 sq ft house we rented cost 2,000 ERU a month or about 540,000 HUF a month (1.5 ERU = 1 USD when we were there, not sure of current exchange rate ) Fuel of all sorts are crazy expensive, etc. Public transport is great...if you can afford it! A round trip to the grocery store for me and my 2 kids was $10 each way. LOTS of people live on government assistance, etc. 

Austria is better....but their politics are more then I can stand and had many of he same issues as Hungary....they pay better, though. Both countries are BEAUTIFUL, but have allot of "baggage".

Where would I live if no US or Canada.......Greenland or Iceland.


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## Ohio dreamer (Apr 6, 2006)

naturelover said:


> If firearms laws are important to you then I guess it would have to be Czech Republic for you Corny. Nowhere else besides USA has less restrictive firearms laws than Czech Republic, not even Switzerland.
> 
> .


Agreed! I'm not sure of the Czech's laws....but firearms are a major no-no in Europe.


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## Raven12 (Mar 5, 2011)

New Zealand


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## longshot38 (Dec 19, 2006)

if i cant live in Canada or the US, im breaking Newfoundland and Labrador off into a republic, you all are welcome.


dean


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## DaleK (Sep 23, 2004)

St. Pierre and Miquelon.


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## longshot38 (Dec 19, 2006)

DaleK said:


> St. Pierre and Miquelon.


hey, we'd be neighbors

dean


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## stamphappy (Jul 29, 2010)

Greenland or New Zealand


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## Freeholder (Jun 19, 2004)

Just going on climate and culture, Ireland or Iceland, maybe Norway. 

Kathleen


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## kaitala (Mar 24, 2011)

I really don't know. I've never been to Europe, so really can't make an educated decision about it. So I'll make an uneducated one.  I'd probably choose France, arable soil, moderate climate (as much as I know), options for coast as well as inland locations. And wine and lots of it. 

If I really had to pick on an educated basis, I'd pick Belize. I've been there and LOVE the country. Logically, while it would take a LONG while, I could drive there. I'd probably want to go to Orange Walk province, they raise some seriously tasty beef, and have a high percentage of Mennonites residing there. If it's a SHTF scenario, if they'd interact with me, I think I'd be able to learn a LOT and fare quite well there.


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## DaleK (Sep 23, 2004)

longshot38 said:


> hey, we'd be neighbors
> 
> dean


'bout as close as I could stay to civilization without breaking the rules of the game ;-)


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## soulsurvivor (Jul 4, 2004)

Iceland would probably be my first choice. I watch the volcano webcams and read their online magazine. It's a really beautiful country and their government is very people oriented. It's almost wild what happens there with all things gov, but it would be a nice change to have your voice actually count for something positive. I don't know that I'd ever learn the language though. I don't think my mouth was made to make some of those sounds.


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## ryanthomas (Dec 10, 2009)

Ohio dreamer said:


> We lived in Hungary for 2 1/2 years. It wouldn't be on my list!


Certainly not at the top of my list, but I love it. The economy wouldn't be a problem for me. I already have a place to live there and wouldn't need a job, so I think it could work. The language is the toughest part. I learned some from my grandparents, but I don't use it enough to be fluent.

I'll add Czech Republic to my list. It's another of my favorite places, and if the gun laws are as good as someone said, that's a huge plus.


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## PhilJohnson (Dec 24, 2006)

New Zealand, Norway, or Argentina. The first two are relatively stable, Argentina has enough remote areas you can get away from some of the bureaucratic BS. New Zealand would be my first choice, no language barrier and the climate is closer to what I'm accustomed to. I'm mostly Norwegian plus a bit of Native thrown in but as far as the weather goes I'm 100 percent. I've been called an eskimo or a polar bear since I have a very high tolerance for cold weather. The language barrier would be tough, tougher than learning Spanish which I already know a limited amount although not as tough as Russian which I tried to learn.


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## City Bound (Jan 24, 2009)

Somewhere small where I could organize a rebelion to take over the government.


Australia is expensive, really expensive, and they have massive ethnic clashing with the rising asian population. In 20 years the quality of life in australia is going to fall pretty low.

Africa is still wild, there is a lot of land there. Just need some machine guns and a tank though to hold down the fort.


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## sticky_burr (Dec 10, 2010)

some place just corrupt enough to get things done


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## jwal10 (Jun 5, 2010)

I ain't going anywhere. I will live and die here....James


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## crtreedude (Jun 14, 2006)

Costa Rica has been working well for us form a little more than seven years now. But not in tourist areas or in Gringolandia. We are in the campo. (countryside)


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## PhilJohnson (Dec 24, 2006)

crtreedude said:


> Costa Rica has been working well for us form a little more than seven years now. But not in tourist areas or in Gringolandia. We are in the campo. (countryside)


I've always heard that Costa Rica was kinda corrupt and had high crime. What has been your experience with that sort of thing? What made you leave the US for Costa Rica? I considered going to Belize for a while since it seemed like the easiest of the Latin American countries to try out (English is the official language) but the corruption and crime made me think twice not to mention it does get quite hot and humid.


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## GlenArden (Feb 8, 2011)

Australia.


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## Freya (Dec 3, 2005)

Any of you already leave the US or Canada?

http://www.homesteadingtoday.com/showthread.php?t=406870

:happy2:


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## Sanza (Sep 8, 2008)

longshot38 said:


> if i cant live in Canada or the US, im breaking Newfoundland and Labrador off into a republic, you all are welcome.
> 
> 
> dean


But would you newfies still commute to Alberta to work? lol

I think I would look at moving to Cuba or Sumatra, Java, Borneo or New Guinea.


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## crtreedude (Jun 14, 2006)

PhilJohnson said:


> I've always heard that Costa Rica was kinda corrupt and had high crime. What has been your experience with that sort of thing? What made you leave the US for Costa Rica? I considered going to Belize for a while since it seemed like the easiest of the Latin American countries to try out (English is the official language) but the corruption and crime made me think twice not to mention it does get quite hot and humid.


Depends where you go. Shall I say that the USA is corrupt and very violent because I lived near Newark NJ? :heh: It is a country, but the areas where there are lots of tourist and lots of retirees who don't mix with the Costa Ricans aren't worth living in, in my opinion. The same thing is true all over the world.

We have an operation of nearly 900 acres of plantations (forest), with a sawmills, furniture factory, 8 homes (for workers mainly), cattle, sheep, oh, lots and lots of stuff. In nine years of business, we have never paid a bribe.

Our total loss to thieves is roughly payroll for one week. I consider that very little. I feel very safe here in our neck of the jungle. Then again, compared to the average Costarican, I look like Herman Munster. :runforhills:

One thing that helps, a lot, is taking your time. Don't land and buy immediately, rent in the area, get to know the people and decide if you are in a good place. Then buy, if you wish. That is what we did and it worked very very well.

If anyone is seriously considering coming to Costa Rica, talk to me. I am not a real estate agent but I have bought more than 12 properties here - it isn't like the USA.

A lot of what people think is being ripped off is that in Latin America, the price is what you negotiate. Lots of people pay way too much because they don't know when the price is outrageous. You do your homework, take your time, and there are great deals to be had.


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## crtreedude (Jun 14, 2006)

By the way, I am actually exploring the idea of people homesteading with us. We have a guest house which can be used as a transition for someone coming in, and then they put in rental in building a home they can live in till they don't want to live in Costa Rica anymore. I will supply equipment, wood, and all the tools in the world. In the end, we own the home, but it will only be used to help others, not for us to make more money with. (we have enough to live simply, which is all we want or need)

I know this sounds weird, but I am very concerned about what is going on up there and people who are falling through the cracks who are decent, hardworking people. I love homesteading ourselves and would love to have good neighbors. We have more than we need, and as Christians believe we must share (since it isn't ours). But I am only willing to share with those of like mind - i.e. not greedy, etc.

There are conditions, moral ones. The standards aren't mine, they are the owner's, i.e. God. You have to be able to pull your own weight of course, but that can be pretty easy in the tropics. There will be a community garden, community animals, etc.

Honestly folks, the only catch is you won't own anything, use your money to invest in something other than where you live (and perhaps you can live off it then)


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## PhilJohnson (Dec 24, 2006)

Crtreedude, I'd say from the sounds of it you've done quite well for yourself down there. I do think a lot of the success with moving to a new place comes with mingling and accepting the local culture. The chief complaints about immigrants here in the US is that they don't want to really mix with anyone else, I guess that is probably a universal sentiment across the world about immigrants. 

I sorta figured things were different in different parts of the country, I'd say there are probably very few places in the world where a whole country is dangerous and unsafe. I find it interesting that you've never had to pay a bribe since it would seem from what I've read that bribes are a basic tenant in a Latin American country. It would appear like you chose your area wisely. I almost plunged into an area once without checking into it first. While it wasn't another country it was in the bush of Alaska but the difference between life styles here in Wisconsin and up there in the bush are pretty much akin to moving to a third world country. In the end I decided if I couldn't check it out first buying property and then crossing my fingers would be a bad idea.


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## sidepasser (May 10, 2002)

I would go either to the Ukraine or Belize. I have relatives that live in St. John and they are making a good living doing "ordinary" jobs - he is a master carpenter and she is a hotel manager. Both are more successful there than in the US where neither could find a job.
I've lived in Italy and Germany, both are nice and I could do Italy but not Germany. I've lived in Mexico and like others have said, there are good areas and the medical care can be quite cheap and very good. 

The only drawback - would those other countries accept a bunch of gun toting US expats? lol..


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## Sweetsong (Dec 4, 2010)

Cabin Fever said:


> Israel.


Ditto.


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## crtreedude (Jun 14, 2006)

PhilJohnson said:


> Crtreedude, I'd say from the sounds of it you've done quite well for yourself down there. I do think a lot of the success with moving to a new place comes with mingling and accepting the local culture. The chief complaints about immigrants here in the US is that they don't want to really mix with anyone else, I guess that is probably a universal sentiment across the world about immigrants.
> 
> I sorta figured things were different in different parts of the country, I'd say there are probably very few places in the world where a whole country is dangerous and unsafe. I find it interesting that you've never had to pay a bribe since it would seem from what I've read that bribes are a basic tenant in a Latin American country. It would appear like you chose your area wisely. I almost plunged into an area once without checking into it first. While it wasn't another country it was in the bush of Alaska but the difference between life styles here in Wisconsin and up there in the bush are pretty much akin to moving to a third world country. In the end I decided if I couldn't check it out first buying property and then crossing my fingers would be a bad idea.


Bribery here is different and sometimes it isn't bribery. For example, I support the local police - I want them to patrol in our area more, so I put on account at the gas station enough to make up what they lack (about 50 dollars a month). They can only put it in the police car. We also once bought a battery for it, the same way. This way, it goes in no one's pocket.

This is legal and normal. We actually paid for a worker for two months to work on a new bridge, and sent our backhoe when needed. The local neighbors were doing similar things based on their size and ability.

You balance that with that with all our properties, etc we pay 1,000 dollars in property tax a year. I prefer this way instead of higher property taxes to go for things I don't agree with.

Another example, there is a small one room school house near one of our plantations. The school desk and basic furniture was falling down. There were 13 students. So we made new furniture for them, and donated it. After all, half the students where the children of our workers.  

Yes, we have done very well, and believe in sharing it with our neighbors. Then again, I needed a road repaired out to a plantation, and the town not only did it, but asked if I could help with a little money for fuel. (it was 3 kilometers of road). The changed a dirt road (say mud for eight months) into a gravel road, and also went inside two of our properties with all the equipment and graded the roads for us. :shocked:

One must learn how to work with the locals if you move to another country, instead of assuming their way is wrong because it isn't yours.


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## kaitala (Mar 24, 2011)

crtreedude, sounds more like cooperation than bribery, and probably much cheaper than the taxes we pay for the "luxury" of being harassed by local police at every turn, and no crime prevention, slow government disbursements to get road/bridgework done piecemeal, and exorbitant property/school tax.

Even if the S doesn't htf, I may come lend my back to build that house and stay for a spell if you don't mind.


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## crtreedude (Jun 14, 2006)

kaitala said:


> crtreedude, sounds more like cooperation than bribery, and probably much cheaper than the taxes we pay for the "luxury" of being harassed by local police at every turn, and no crime prevention, slow government disbursements to get road/bridgework done piecemeal, and exorbitant property/school tax.
> 
> Even if the S doesn't htf, I may come lend my back to build that house and stay for a spell if you don't mind.


I totally agree. This is not to say people don't have problems and aren't conned here, after all, the even the Garden of Eden had a snake, if you catch my drift.

The mistake I feel most people make which is a natural one, you assume things are the same as back home. They aren't. It takes a while (one to two years) to adjust, and during that time you are vulnerable to all sorts of issues. But we all love to just dig in and start our project. The first project has to be how to communicate and how to understand your neighbors. The money you save and frustration will more than make up for the time lost.


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## Cyngbaeld (May 20, 2004)

Probably Scotland, being my ancestral home and all.


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## GoldenCityMuse (Apr 15, 2009)

Israel has some interest to me.
Costa Rica sounds good too.


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## ginnie5 (Jul 15, 2003)

7thswan said:


> Australia, do you guys know how many Deadly/Poisonous things live There?


I would die the first time I saw some of the spiders/snakes they have there! Scotland/Ireland sound good. My grandmother's family came from Ireland originally.


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## D Lynn (May 26, 2008)

Does Newfoundland count? They have their own language there! :grin:
Seriously tho, The Falklands have always intrigued me. But likely I would go to my fair Ireland. Last picks would be Scotland, Finland, or New Zealand if it would stop rumbling for a while.


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## NMminihomestead (Mar 10, 2015)

Costa Rica or Panama


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## Shrek (May 1, 2002)

Panama as I know folks who have already relocated to that area and say it is adequate and I have been taught enough Central American Spanish by immigrant employees I worked with to get by.


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## TnAndy (Sep 15, 2005)

Mars.

"and I'm a rocket man, burning out into the halozone"


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## Greenhouse (Jun 20, 2014)

1.Finland ,finns have sisu ,they never give up (history tells ) 2. Norwey has oil and fish  people reminds of finns.


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## arnie (Apr 26, 2012)

I was getting info on Belzie from some real estate place ; it seems you can afford to buy a home for what the Good ol US steals from your retirement pension every month


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## Woolieface (Feb 17, 2015)

Stick me on an uninhabited island. I don't care who's it is as long as I never have to hear about them.


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## Bellyman (Jul 6, 2013)

I'm surprised I haven't seen Uruguay or Chile. I have a friend in Panama and he loves it there. Have ancestors that came from Ireland and have sometimes wondered if there is enough Irish in me to be welcomed back there. (?)


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## ldc (Oct 11, 2006)

Bellyman, it usually takes one grandparent or great grandparent! Good luck with this!


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## susieneddy (Sep 2, 2011)

Mexico or Belize. Mexico is the leader right now since it is cheaper to leave there than in Belize


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## Red_Leg (Apr 13, 2015)

New Zealand, love Australia but too much desert. Norway as a second choice.


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## GAZZA (Apr 16, 2015)

I like the Cook Islands or Tahiti in the middle of the Pacific. Far enough away "if" the SHTF and there's an abundance of fish, wild pig and wild fruits growing everywhere. The people are so laid back and friendly it's amazing. English is a second language on the Cook Island's and English is widely spoken in Tahiti.

Hawaii is also nice but would be an easy target for our enemies.

Wylie


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