# Staying under the radar



## bourbonred (Feb 27, 2008)

I've always felt that as long as I stayed off weird websites, kept my mouth shut, and kept stuff out of sight from neighbors then I wouldn't have any trouble staying off lists. A recent essay on survival blog suggested though that with the advent of gps, satellite mapping, and coordination of government agencies, that many folks retreats are no longer "under the radar". http://www.survivalblog.com/2011/12/i_can_see_you_--_a_digital_vie.html The article itself was interesting and thought-provoking, but it was a response to the article that really stuck with me:

"JWR:
I believe that Dave X.'s "I Can See You" article is worthy of rebuttal and I am uniquely qualified to respond because until recently I was one of those supervising bureaucrats that used the analytical tools mentioned in this article. I only worked at the county level, but my friend of thirty years and best man at my wedding still serves in a similar position at the state level. 
I concede that there are those who are on watch lists based upon *purchases made, information posted on the Internet, and licensees such as ham radio and concealed carry. * It does not take government resources to find these people. I often hear someone bragging in a discussion group and email them a link to their property tax file and a satellite photo of their retreat in hopes they will get serious about OPSEC. 
We do not compile this information at the state or local levels for purposes outside taxation and emergency response. We do not have zoning outside of municipalities. We do provide information to fusion centers created under a joint project between the Department of Homeland Security and the US Department of Justice which compiles data from public and private sources. *It is reasonable to expect that at least some of the people described above will be considered assets WTSHTF and be collected by the feds in the interest of national security *- if they can be found. 
The key to not being found is to not be at the address our credit card statement goes (mine goes to a P.O. Box linked to a former home), the location where UPS delivered our case of high power ammo, or where concealed carry or ham radio licenses say we live. In addition, we should not carry our cell phone to the retreat site nor anything else that can be used to track us there.
While the technology exists to theoretically do everything the author states in his article, in reality we can do very little at the state and local level because we simply do not have the manpower. Yes, we can see your secluded acreage from the eye in the sky, but cannot see through through the trees well enough to add the cabin you built without obtaining a building permit to your property taxes. We cannot see well enough to catch people poaching deer which they do here like it's their job. We haven't even been able to assign homes without mailboxes an address for 911emergency call response. In almost every case we find out about these things because your neighbors rat you out. Nearly everyone in my retreat local hunts, and heats with wood, and has a garden, and cans so these activities will not single anyone out. 
Certainly there are a lot more resources at the Federal level and as the author pointed out, the majority of these resources have been around for thirty years. We used them to unsuccessfully track Eric Robert Rudolf, the Olympic Park Bomber, for over five years while over a hundred Federal investigators plus local law enforcement combed the area where they knew he was living. We use it today to unsuccessfully stop the flow of illegal immigrants and drugs across our border with Mexico. The Federal government simply does not have the manpower to do what the author proposes and we are barely keeping our heads above water at the state and local levels. The other night we had to call an off-duty deputy and get him out of bed to respond to a shooting because there was not a single deputy on duty. We so rarely stumble upon the plethora of pot plantations in our county that when we do it makes front page news. Does anyone really believe that we are going to become more efficient after TEOTWAWKI when we are dealing with escalating violent crime and riots in the streets?
The powers that be will go after the low-hanging fruit. The key to survival is to not be that fruit. Let them be occupied collecting those who are home when they sweep for the Feds watch list, Ham radio or concealed carry licensees, or those foolish enough to put their retreat properties in their own name. It is the nail that sticks up that gets hammered down." 



We are law-abiding citizens. We buy legal items by legal means; obtain permits when required, and was considering obtaining ham radio certification. Am I really putting a big bullseye on our family by following the law??? Maybe I'm just too naive--maybe I haven't kept my tinfoil hat tight enough. I don't know what to think. It's mighty hard to bug in and "disappear" at the same time. BBR


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## Cyngbaeld (May 20, 2004)

> In almost every case we find out about these things because your neighbors rat you out.


Been saying this for years. It isn't TPTB that will be your big problem after the hooey hits, it is Harry next door that is irritated because your LGD barked all night at the coyotes that were after the goats. Don't let Harry know what you got!


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## gracie88 (May 29, 2007)

> Harry next door that is irritated because your LGD barked all night at the coyotes that were after the goats.


 Let me just say that if my neighbor's dog barked all night, and they didn't just get up and shoot the stupid coyotes, I would not be feeling a whole lot of neighborly good will. I wouldn't rat them out to TPTB though, I'd probably just go shoot the varmints myownself. I love my neighborhood.


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## Ohio Rusty (Jan 18, 2008)

I keep several layers of aluminum foil in the outer layer of my wallet so no theives or stores can scan thru my wallet to see what cards or anything else that might be scannable for data or numbers. Just a small thing I can easily do to stay 'under the radar'.
Ohio Rusty ><>


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## EasyDay (Aug 28, 2004)

Due to my previous clearance level, I doubt there IS an "under the radar" for me. And, as has been mentioned, property tax, etc. are hard to hide from anyway.

So, I applied for (and have) a CCW, and make it a habit to "speak out" when I can. I figure if I can't hide, I might as well be LOUD about it!  It will be more noticeable if I happen to "disappear"! 

That being said, once SHTF and the UN moves in, I will become completely invisible because nothing else will matter.


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## therunbunch (Oct 5, 2009)

EasyDay said:


> Due to my previous clearance level, I doubt there IS an "under the radar" for me. And, as has been mentioned, property tax, etc. are hard to hide from anyway.
> 
> So, I applied for (and have) a CCW, and make it a habit to "speak out" when I can. I figure if I can't hide, I might as well be LOUD about it!  It will be more noticeable if I happen to "disappear"!
> 
> That being said, once SHTF and the UN moves in, I will become completely invisible because nothing else will matter.


This.


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## CountryGoalie (Aug 31, 2004)

Hm. Interesting point.

Pardon the typos - this was sent via Tapatalk on my cell phone!


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## Danaus29 (Sep 12, 2005)

But I don't wanna be an asset that can be "collected"! Waaahhhhh!


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## EasyDay (Aug 28, 2004)

Deleted


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## Sonshine (Jul 27, 2007)

EasyDay said:


> Due to my previous clearance level, I doubt there IS an "under the radar" for me. And, as has been mentioned, property tax, etc. are hard to hide from anyway.
> 
> So, I applied for (and have) a CCW, and make it a habit to "speak out" when I can. I figure if I can't hide, I might as well be LOUD about it!  It will be more noticeable if I happen to "disappear"!
> 
> That being said, once SHTF and the UN moves in, I will become completely invisible because nothing else will matter.


Me too.


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## InvalidID (Feb 18, 2011)

There are lots of ways to go under ground and still have a pretty normal life. Organized crime has been doing this for decades now, and most of it's legal.


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## JuliaAnn (Dec 7, 2004)

Anyone wants to see how this is done, all you have to do is follow around some illegals from Mexico while they go to work, shop, go to restaurants, to movies, buy a car, go fishing....


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## Sonshine (Jul 27, 2007)

Well, I figure that anyone wanting to stay under the radar wouldn't be on homesteading forums or prepping forums. I surprises me what some people post about what they have in their preps. I think it would be wise to discuss preps without actually sharing just how much you have or have done to prep.


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## snake35 (Jan 24, 2011)

Do not forget that the department of education and homeland security have teamed up to create the new hitler youth!


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## mamaof3peas (Oct 8, 2009)

We are not super careful about what we say BC we figure they could figure out all they need from our phones, but we will not have that complication once we BO. I wouldn't trust tracphones either, they are registered and can still track you


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## Cyngbaeld (May 20, 2004)

gracie88 said:


> Let me just say that if my neighbor's dog barked all night, and they didn't just get up and shoot the stupid coyotes, I would not be feeling a whole lot of neighborly good will. I wouldn't rat them out to TPTB though, I'd probably just go shoot the varmints myownself. I love my neighborhood.


You want to go tromping thru the woods at night with a gun? Not me! 'Sides, coyotes see better in the dark than me and they are likely to just disappear till I give up and go inside then start the dogs to barking again.


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## texican (Oct 4, 2003)

gracie88 said:


> Let me just say that if my neighbor's dog barked all night, and they didn't just get up and shoot the stupid coyotes, I would not be feeling a whole lot of neighborly good will. I wouldn't rat them out to TPTB though, I'd probably just go shoot the varmints myownself. I love my neighborhood.


If the neighbors guard dogs bark, mine do too... I fire off a few rounds pretty much every night, to befuddle the coyotes...

All my future building projects are incorporating satellite surveillance visual security (trees). May not stop a dedicated sweep by the CIA sats, but it will prevent the average Joe accessible Google and other net sat views from seeing what I have. Ironically, my house, and 3 of 4 barns are invisible... alas, one barn shows up like a sore thumb. Hopefully, ten gallons or so of paint will obfuscate the bright metal roof, in time for the next sat flyover photo session.


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## InvalidID (Feb 18, 2011)

mamaof3peas said:


> We are not super careful about what we say BC we figure they could figure out all they need from our phones, but we will not have that complication once we BO. I wouldn't trust tracphones either, they are registered and can still track you


 That and some folks posts don't trace back to their homes anyway....


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## mamaof3peas (Oct 8, 2009)

So a question, I totally agree on trees being excellent cover from satellite, but how can we grow gardens without sunlight


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## Cyngbaeld (May 20, 2004)

It really isn't the gov surveillance or the dogs barking, it is that you never know when someone you thought was ok, or his BIL that he yakked to about your business, will decide to cause trouble. So keep your business, your business, and don't run your mouth. Doesn't mean act all paranoid, because that draws attention too. Try to look like the neighbors and on the surface be as "normal" as possible.


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## EasyDay (Aug 28, 2004)

Cyngbaeld said:


> It really isn't the gov surveillance or the dogs barking, it is that you never know when someone you thought was ok, or his BIL that he yakked to about your business, will decide to cause trouble. So keep your business, your business, and don't run your mouth. Doesn't mean act all paranoid, because that draws attention too. Try to look like the neighbors and on the surface be as "normal" as possible.


Exactly! Invisible in plain sight.


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## JuliaAnn (Dec 7, 2004)

Well, to blend in with many of the general public, I'd have to put on about 100 lb., start wearing spandex and flip flops, stick some pins in my face, go bra-less, bleach approximately half my hair, and spend inordinate amounts of time in Wal Mart.


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## soulsurvivor (Jul 4, 2004)

That round up of folks that might be of assistance after a disaster is written into each state's Model Health Powers laws. They used to refer to them as first responders until the different levels of government came together and worked out the line of command for such situations. I'm not sure how they're referred to now, but it's basically the same assumption that these people would be picked up and taken to locations where their particular skill set is most needed. As I recall, anyone that has a medical certification or degree is automatically on that list. 

And now our federal government is seeking legislation and permission to increase the use of drones in the US. If you think you're going to hide somewhere, you may want to reconsider that.


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## Welshmom (Sep 7, 2008)

Did anyone else hear the interview two nights ago on Fresh Air radio program? I was interrupted and couldn't listen to the whole thing, but it was about the newest technology being developed that can trace and capture just about any communication by anyone, anywhere. Emails, text messages, voice messages, you name it. Came to light as it's being used against protesters in the Middle East. Very chilling.

Seems like the only real way to hide, if you wanted to, would be to go under ground. Literally.


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## EasyDay (Aug 28, 2004)

JuliaAnn said:


> Well, to blend in with many of the general public, I'd have to put on about 100 lb., start wearing spandex and flip flops, stick some pins in my face, go bra-less, bleach approximately half my hair, and spend inordinate amounts of time in Wal Mart.


:bouncy: DO it! ound:

Kidding, of course!


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## JuliaAnn (Dec 7, 2004)

Thankee, no. I'd rather stand out in such a crowd for my plain clothing and lack of pins in my face and my more-or-less normal weight. 

Boy, someone like me really DOES stand out among the People of Wal Mart. Their conversation would go something like 'Hay, Brittany, look at that freak! OMG, she's wearing jeans! And a plain shirt, and some kind of plain brown boots. And look at her hair, it's long and curly and gray! How weird, she's not wearing makup and don't have no pins stuck in her face. What a FREAK! Looks like she needs some Big Macs, too!! Beeyotch!!"


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## texican (Oct 4, 2003)

JuliaAnn said:


> Well, to blend in with many of the general public, I'd have to put on about 100 lb., start wearing spandex and flip flops, stick some pins in my face, go bra-less, bleach approximately half my hair, and spend inordinate amounts of time in Wal Mart.


There you go!


Welshmom said:


> Did anyone else hear the interview two nights ago on Fresh Air radio program? I was interrupted and couldn't listen to the whole thing, but it was about the newest technology being developed that can trace and capture just about any communication by anyone, anywhere. Emails, text messages, voice messages, you name it. Came to light as it's being used against protesters in the Middle East. Very chilling.
> 
> Seems like the only real way to hide, if you wanted to, would be to go under ground. Literally.


It's been around for what? at least a decade... say the right words, and the computer will forward the message along to a human. Predator? or some such name???


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## ryanthomas (Dec 10, 2009)

Carnivore? Echelon? Those are two I've heard of, but I think one of them is now defunct. I haven't kept up with that stuff.


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## EasyDay (Aug 28, 2004)

Echelon was Clinton's eavesdropping program. (The one that the left doesn't recognize.)

Texican, the hot word lists have been around since at LEAST the early 90s, maybe longer.


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## bee (May 12, 2002)

To "blend" or not to blend..that is the question. Since I have no particular "value" to the system I don't bother. Who is going to "collect" a half blind nearly 60 year old woman with no particular skills??? I would be considered dead weight. All the more so as I seem a bit "off"....LOL!!! you should see some of the looks I gather when I have to run in some place in my muck boots,stained jeans and favorite oversized men's shirts!

HIPS...hide in plain sight


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## texican (Oct 4, 2003)

ryanthomas said:


> Carnivore? Echelon? Those are two I've heard of, but I think one of them is now defunct. I haven't kept up with that stuff.


That's it...
Can you ever imagine any agency, that obtains power, ever giving it up? Both of these programs could be long dead and forgotten. However, their children, and grandchildren will still be around, orders of magnitude more powerful.


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## Pouncer (Oct 28, 2006)

I already concluded there is no way not to be on a list somewhere. I'd already spoken/posted/blogged my concerns before I truly understood the risks. 

If, by giving into paranoia, I do not speak, do not let my opinions be known, they win. Pretty simple.

For me, there is no way to be under anyone's radar, because I have a voice. 

But I'll just say that a number of people I know online, have gone either dark, or very quiet. Since there is no way to scrub your footprints off the net, I accept that the history I've left will tag me. I'll just have to cope with what comes, if anything.


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## mnn2501 (Apr 2, 2008)

gracie88 said:


> Let me just say that if my neighbor's dog barked all night, and they didn't just get up and shoot the stupid coyotes, I would not be feeling a whole lot of neighborly good will. I wouldn't rat them out to TPTB though, I'd probably just go shoot the varmints myownself. I love my neighborhood.


 I hope you meant the coyotes and not the neighbors.


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## ryanthomas (Dec 10, 2009)

Some would say the only government list that matters is the one of favored people, and anyone NOT on the list is in for trouble, rather than all these lists of people to be rounded up. It may be true, but I personally don't want to be on the favored list either.


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## bourbonred (Feb 27, 2008)

How many of you have gotten your ham radio license? Did you consider that it would put you on a list when you did it?


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## radiofish (Mar 30, 2007)

I have been following this thread since the beginning, kind of shaking my head over some of the comments...

I have had my Amateur "Ham" Radio License for over 33+ years now. 
Yes you are put on a 'list', but it is by the FCC for having permission to transmit on certain frequencies in the electro-magnet spectrum.

It does not put a huge target on you, when you obtain an Amateur "Ham" Radio license.

Plus there was a comment on page one, that a licensed ham can be commandeered by the authorities.

Well I have taken the time to train with others, be certified in emergency communications/ be an alternate net control station for this part of the state, and on the 'official call out list' for the County and State Agencies. Yet I can still decline to 'volunteer' if I feel that due to my injuries/ pain levels that I am not up to it. Or if the duties that they want me to do - like to go out of the local area, down to the other end of the state or such is beyond my capabilities...

Plus with my having a State of California CCW License for over 20+ years - there is another list that I am on! Yet the authorities know that when I do my Certified Disaster Worker duties in Emergency Communications, I will respond armed/ it is listed on my CCW application under one of the reasons of "why I am applying for a CCW" section. If I am assigned to use radios at a police station or at an other governmental agency, I will secure (unload and lock) my weapon in my vehicle. So for those that are worrying about having a CCW License, I now have an even bigger target on me - so to speak..

Then to top it off - myself like another that has posted here - years ago I had a FFL dealers license, where I had ordered wholesale amounts of military surplus firearms and cases of ammunition. So that puts a huge red waving flag on top of my stack of files. 

Or when with the assistance of our local U.S. Congressman's Field Office, myself and two other post officers (one from the VFW and the other was American Legion) had ordered 15 M-1 Garand rifles and cases of ceremonial blank ammunition from the US Army - Rock Island Arsenal, for the local Veteran's Honor Guard. My goodness, I have 24/ 7 access to that many weapons that are still technically owned by the US Government!! I was the person that went and signed for the shipment..

But I am not all paranoid or worried that I am at the top of the lists when "the powers that be" start rounding up the troublemakers. In doing my volunteer work with communications, I must know about 1/2 of the law enforcement personnel in my area. With my size and the way that I present myself, I can say that the power that be are glad to see me. I often get comments when we cross paths such as - "it's good to see you again, while we aren't in the middle of a crisis/ earthquake/ flood/ fire/ etc..." Or how often does on get asked by the local Officers/ Sheriff's Deputies, "if I am still carrying around that weird caliber Commie handgun?" Which is my Czech CZ-52, that is chambered in 7.62X25mm Tokarev/ they were $89.00 dollars each @ wholesale prices at one time.. 

Yet, I don't get dragged out of my vehicles in a 'Felony Stop' either, when I do encounter the authorities while in a vehicle covered with antennas (and a ham callsign license plate), and with weapons inside.

Throw in my volunteer activities with the Veteran's Groups and from being the past or present local Post Adjutant of the American Legion/ Marine Corps League, and other veteran's groups - I appear in the local newspapers/ on the local TV news/ and appearing in Parades and Ceremonies while in uniform. So if they start rounding up the Veterans, then I guess I am also in that group.


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## EasyDay (Aug 28, 2004)

I think that's the point, radiofish. We're all on some list or another... and like you, I'm on lots of them. 

Anyone that thinks that they're on zero lists is mistaken. They're probably on a list of people that don't do "normal" stuff... as displaying hermit-like behavior or something.


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## AngieM2 (May 10, 2002)

Great post radiofish.


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## Cyngbaeld (May 20, 2004)

I suspect most of us aren't nearly important enough to be on the gov's "lists" and they have much more to do than worry about whether or not I bought "storage food". Most of the time the gov won't do anything unless someone complains and brings it to their attention (if then).


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## bowdonkey (Oct 6, 2007)

I'm sure a hunting license will put you on a list or two.


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## Coloneldad5 (Dec 6, 2011)

As has been stated here before, there are several lists that many of us can be found on. Some are more 'notorious' than others. We have all seen the reports of how the Feds have made some 'qualifications' of one sort or other that call certain types of individuals as 'at risk' and to watch. I must admit that I easily fill the bill on many of those myself. This doesn't necessarily say I am at risk of being picked up and hauled away to some "reeducation camp". Reality is no government or organization has the ability, resources or time to make an overarching sweep of percieved threats and round them up in one fell swoop. 

History shows multiple examples of what happens as a country goes down the slope towards a totalitarian regime. Nazi Germany, Soviet Russia, Cambodia, to name a few. There are fairly consistent patterns to observe. The first to get 'picked up' will be key opposition leaders and outspoken media and opposition leaders. These are the greatest risk to the 'new regime' and their elimination is usually sufficient to cause confusion in the ranks of the opposition and disrupt their activities. It also allows for the regime to zero in on follow on leaders as they compete for the top positions that have been vacated. Those who survive the competition will quickly find themselves also picked up. In this phase the more outspoken and active you are the greater the risk of being picked up.

Once the obvious opposition leaders are rounded up and dealt with then the regime will be able to start focusing on any other perceived threats. This is where they'll start focusing on smaller groups: private militias, moderate opposition organizations, etc. Some of these will be outright eliminated while the regime will attempt to coopt the bulk of them and draw them into their sphere of control. Why they do this? Because they realize that it is impossible to illiminate everything. It is much easier to get them to buy into the regime and become supportive. 

Not until much later will they be able to start focusing on the individuals who are quietly going about their everyday lives. At this point it is virtually impossible to identify and round up everyone. With over 300 million population in the US, even using all of the military, police, etc. you cannot control and watch everyone. Nazi Germany and Soviet Russia couldn't do it either. Now is where keeping a low profile becomes critical. 

Most folks rounded up at this time are first due to them running their own mouths off. Blabbing and bragging gets more folks than anything else. It also doesn't help to become totally recluse as this always draws curiosity of your neighbors, especially in a paranoid environment after a totalitarian regime has taken over. 

Important thing in my opinion is to find a good neighborhood/location where you will fit in and not stand out so much. Living in an area that has lots of gardens and such is the easiest way to hide yours, right out in the open. Having others of similar mind set (they don't have to be totally preppers and such, independent minded folk will work) around you and being part of the community where you are willing to help out goes a long way. Think of the short series "Jericho" and think of Jake and Hawkins and how they worked for the community. 

In the end, keeping your head, not sounding like some wacked out conspiracy theorist and planning ahead will pay dividends, whether or not the world goes to crap or not.


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## 7thswan (Nov 18, 2008)

There are a number of media members, that have been instructed to keep thir mouth shut,many have quietly moved on. They aren't forgetting.


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## Gary in ohio (May 11, 2002)

I think the most interesting part is that an individual thinks they are important enough for someone else to care.... Under the radar is a vague term. Under who's radar? The government, the neighbors?, The men in black... Unless your doing something wrong no one really cares....


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

> Unless your *doing something wrong *no one really cares....


Who gets to define "wrong"?


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## EasyDay (Aug 28, 2004)

Bearfootfarm said:


> Who gets to define "wrong"?


And that's the real question, isn't it? I concur.


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## Pelenaka (Jul 27, 2007)

I've lost the list, that listed what lists I'm on ...

Card carrying Presbyterian
Social Security Administration
Federal taxpayer
State taxpayer 
LPN in NY & Puerto Rico
Spouse has a CCW
Rod & gub club
NYS driver's license enhanced (I can cross over to Canada without a passport)
Registered voter in NYS, my county, my voting district ect.
Library
Bank accounts & mortgage, savings, 401K ...
Private health insurance 
Pharmacy
Home owner/property tax payer
Online shopper 
Local shopper @ regional franchised stores 
Local Co-op buying club 
Children's sport's booster clubs
Neighborhood watch


~~ pelenaka ~~
_who on any given day of the week is bound to be @ the top of someone's list 
_


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## ryanthomas (Dec 10, 2009)

Bearfootfarm said:


> Who gets to define "wrong"?


The police you so vigorously defend.


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## soulsurvivor (Jul 4, 2004)

The entire earth is under the radar and very visible online with google earth and other satellite based programs. For goodness sakes, you can pull up maps of any ocean bottom you want, so why would anyone be thinking they're going to hide from "eyes" like that?
http://www.physorg.com/news/2011-06-google-ocean-deep.html

I'm not current with the exact number of satellites in earth orbit, but this shows an illustration of 13 thousand a few years ago:
[YOUTUBE]ydbbd-4oEds[/YOUTUBE]
[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ydbbd-4oEds&feature=related[/ame]


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## frank (Dec 16, 2008)

fear, fear, fear, ...not happenin' here.

"we the people" should know better


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## sdnapier (Aug 13, 2010)

mamaof3peas said:


> So a question, I totally agree on trees being excellent cover from satellite, but how can we grow gardens without sunlight


Check into starting a permaculture food forest.


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## BillHoo (Mar 16, 2005)

JuliaAnn said:


> Well, to blend in with many of the general public, I'd have to put on about 100 lb., start wearing spandex and flip flops, stick some pins in my face, go bra-less, bleach approximately half my hair, and spend inordinate amounts of time in Wal Mart.


Sounds like you need to find a different herd of sheep to blend in with!


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## BillHoo (Mar 16, 2005)

radiofish said:


> I have been following this thread since the beginning, kind of shaking my head over some of the comments...
> 
> I have had my Amateur "Ham" Radio License for over 33+ years now.
> Yes you are put on a 'list', but it is by the FCC for having permission to transmit on certain frequencies in the electro-magnet spectrum.
> ...



Great post Radiofish!

Years ago when we had a big snowstorm, I had to set up an EOC with my guard unit.

A guy showed up in a police car, and presented himself as a HAM operator AND retired Navy radio operator. He was reporting for volunteer duty for the snow emergency! He had travelled across 9 townships, hitching rides from police station to police station to get to our Emergency Operations Center.

I'd never encountered a civilian volunteer, so we checked to see if it was legal - yup!

I welcomed his civic-mindedness and we gave him a meal and put him to work. This guys was great! Like he was in his element. I had to roust up soldiers across the state and they'd whine about having to shovel out their mother-inlaw's driveway, or they didn't a ride. Yet, this guy found a way to get to us.

That was a big nor'easter that pounded NJ in the early 90s. Back then, the local LEO and emergency services did not have SUVs, so they called on the guard to supply trucks and hummers for use as ambulances and to move LEO around.

I commend you and all volunteers who pitch in to help the community in times of need.

And NO, I don't even remember this guys name, nor did we put him on any kind of list. At the end of the snow emergency, we offered him a ride home, but he left the way he came - hitching rides in cop cars.

And keep in mind, that in this recent Iraq and Afghanistan conflict, the government was unable to find 70 percent of the reservists who had started their active duty tour, then went on Individual Ready Reserve status. That means they OWED the government time to fulfill their contractual requirements - anywhwere from 2 to 7 years of owed service. These guys up and disappeared! You woulda thought it would be easy to find them via income tax records. But you have to remember, THE GOVERNEMENT AIN'T THAT ORGANIZED!!!

That's why they had to mobilize the National Guard in such huge numbers. The IRR reservists could not be found in time of need.


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## BillHoo (Mar 16, 2005)

Pelenaka said:


> I've lost the list, that listed what lists I'm on ...
> 
> Card carrying Presbyterian
> Social Security Administration
> ...



I was once part of a national para-military group called The Cub Scouts. I escaped their indoctrination, but I have to be ever vigilent that they might come after me. I'm really suspicious of my nephew who recently joined and was selling popcorn for them last month!


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## copperkid3 (Mar 18, 2005)

Bearfootfarm said:


> Who gets to define "wrong"?


**********************************
and his henchmen,....*http://tpmmuckraker.talkingpointsme...ma_will_issue_signing_statement_with_ndaa.php*


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## RebelDigger (Aug 5, 2010)

soulsurvivor said:


> The entire earth is under the radar and very visible online with google earth and other satellite based programs. For goodness sakes, you can pull up maps of any ocean bottom you want, so why would anyone be thinking they're going to hide from "eyes" like that?
> http://www.physorg.com/news/2011-06-google-ocean-deep.html
> 
> I'm not current with the exact number of satellites in earth orbit, but this shows an illustration of 13 thousand a few years ago:
> ...


I couldn't open the youtube link because I have Hughes --don't try to download vidoes cause we suck --Net for my provider but, wow, that still picture of the Earth looks like it is surrounded by a swarm of flies. I did not realize there were so many of them!


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## woodsrunner (Nov 28, 2003)

Pelenaka said:


> I've lost the list, that listed what lists I'm on ...
> 
> Card carrying Presbyterian
> Social Security Administration
> ...


Also don't forget your hubby was signal corps and had a security clearance. Most of the people I know that had my my MOS or similar ones get looked at kinda close on background checks. Also former card carrying member of The John Birch Society. Current member of the Libertarian party. About twenty years ago was a very very vocal tax protester. Also don't forget being in the philly airport, where I found out about the guy in Virginia that has the same name as me and is the same age. Was kind of embarassing to have my new stepkids see me get detained for questioning, because somebody else out there is a felon on the no fly list.

With age I've learned the best way to hide is to pretend to be one of the sheep. It's easiest to keep a foot outside the system, while the other foot is planted just inside.


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