# Three sisters planting



## damoc (Jul 14, 2007)

Tried some three sisters planting this year.


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## Danaus29 (Sep 12, 2005)

You couldn't find time to fight the weeds either. That seems to have been a common problem this season. 

Your layout looks good. Too bad the weather didn't cooperate.


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## doc- (Jun 26, 2015)

I think the Three Sisters thing is over-rated due to it's romanticized association with Indigenous peoples & 
"living with nature."

It seems to be an inefficent use of space...The squash is nutritionally useless...The beans, contrary to populat mythology, don't add N to the soil until you till them under--and if you take the beans themselves away, that doesn't leave much N behind..

As you experienced-- weeds are still a problem. Had you palnted the beans 4 apart in rows, they would have shaded out weeds.

Other than that-- It's a great concept.


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## Danaus29 (Sep 12, 2005)

I don't know what type of squash you are growing @doc- , but butternut squash has a lot of nutrients. The seeds are edible also but I don't like the seed hulls.


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## geo in mi (Nov 14, 2008)

I think the three sisters method was used mainly by the Northern woodland Indians of the Iriquois Nation. As they located themselves in the wooded areas, they woud cut down the smaller trees for building the longhouse, then they would girdle the larger ones to get them ready for removal. Open canopy would create the sunny spots for food growing--but first, I believe they would be used for summer cooking fires, food waste dumping...and maybe even human waste and animal processing offal. Leaf coverings would eventually create the moist, humus rich soil for growing BIG corn and beans and pumpkins all squeezed together in such compact plots.

As for weed control, well, that was what child labor was all about, as well as sleeping them on elevated patforms to do night patrol for the four legged critters such as racoon, ground hog, skunk, maybe even a bear or two. And they could practice their monlight bow techniques against the deer. 

geo


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## Danaus29 (Sep 12, 2005)

Corn and squash grow huge when planted in leaf litter. My best producing butternut vine grew from some seeds that were in the leaf/compost pile.


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## doc- (Jun 26, 2015)

Danaus29 said:


> I don't know what type of squash you are growing @doc- , but butternut squash has a lot of nutrients. The seeds are edible also but I don't like the seed hulls.


Squash, winter, butternut, cooked, baked, without salt Nutrition Facts & Calories (self.com) 

One serving has only 1.5gm protein and les than 10% of almost all oher vits & mins-- If you like the stuff, fine, but it's not worth the effort as far as the nutrition goes...


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## Danaus29 (Sep 12, 2005)

It takes a lot of squash to make roasted raccoon palatable.
I prefer butternut instead of sweet potatoes. I don't like sweet potatoes.


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## Pony (Jan 6, 2003)

doc- said:


> Squash, winter, butternut, cooked, baked, without salt Nutrition Facts & Calories (self.com)
> 
> One serving has only 1.5gm protein and les than 10% of almost all oher vits & mins-- If you like the stuff, fine, but it's not worth the effort as far as the nutrition goes...


Why are you such a squash hater? 

The nutrient profile you posted says, "The good: This food is very low in Saturated Fat, Cholesterol and Sodium. It is also a good source of Vitamin E (Alpha Tocopherol), Thiamin, Niacin, Vitamin B6, Folate, Calcium and Magnesium, and a very good source of Vitamin A, Vitamin C, Potassium and Manganese."

The link below goes to a site that states, "* Each cup of cubed butternut squash provides approximately 60 calories, 16 g of carbohydrates and 3 g of fiber.* It also supplies almost 300 percent of your daily value of vitamin A, 50 percent of vitamin C, 7 percent of calcium and 5 percent of iron."






Healthfully


Find your way to better health.




healthfully.com


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## doc- (Jun 26, 2015)

I'm not a hater, just one who refuses to tell the Emperor he's got nice clothes. ..Define a "good" source of nutrients? I wouldn;t call any source that supplies less than 25% of a nutrient as good. Squash has no more Vit C than a potato. It is very high in Vit A (too high if you're gunna eat a lot of it). The other nutrints you listed are all less than 10% in squash.


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## Evons hubby (Oct 3, 2005)

doc- said:


> I think the Three Sisters thing is over-rated due to it's romanticized association with Indigenous peoples &
> "living with nature."
> 
> It seems to be an inefficent use of space...The squash is nutritionally useless...The beans, contrary to populat mythology, don't add N to the soil until you till them under--and if you take the beans themselves away, that doesn't leave much N behind..
> ...


Legumes don’t have to be turned under to put nitrogen in the soil. Squash do provide nutrition as well as warding off some predators and weeding is weeding no matter how you plant.


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## geo in mi (Nov 14, 2008)

The Interworking of the Three Sisters – Oneida Indian Nation 

Interesting 

geo

And, how 'bout a pumpkin(also a squash) filled with apples and cranberries, roasted by the fire while the succotash was cooking?

geo


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## Evons hubby (Oct 3, 2005)

doc- said:


> I'm not a hater, just one who refuses to tell the Emperor he's got nice clothes. ..Define a "good" source of nutrients? I wouldn;t call any source that supplies less than 25% of a nutrient as good. Squash has no more Vit C than a potato. It is very high in Vit A (too high if you're gunna eat a lot of it). The other nutrints you listed are all less than 10% in squash.


I don’t recommend squash as a sole supplier of nutrients, nor any single veggie.... but a variety can provide a balanced diet.


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## doc- (Jun 26, 2015)

Evons hubby said:


> Legumes don’t have to be turned under to put nitrogen in the soil.


That's what I always thought too until they brought it up on the Ag PhD TV show...The bacterial nodes on the roots fix & convert N into a form the plants can use, and they directly inject the stuff into the roots via little penetrating hairs.---They don't fix N to be dumped into the soil----Most of the N winds up as protein in the bean/pea (highest source of protein after meat).

So, unless you're tilling the beans or peas into the soil, you're not doing all that much good in terms if N levels. The real advantage of growing legumes is to improve soil compaction/aeration. SOIL QUALITY-AGRONOMY (usda.gov)


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## Evons hubby (Oct 3, 2005)

doc- said:


> That's what I always thought too until they brought it up on the Ag PhD TV show...The bacterial nodes on the roots fix & convert N into a form the plants can use, and they directly inject the stuff into the roots via little penetrating hairs.---They don't fix N to be dumped into the soil----Most of the N winds up as protein in the bean/pea (highest source of protein after meat).
> 
> So, unless you're tilling the beans or peas into the soil, you're not doing all that much good in terms if N levels. The real advantage of growing legumes is to improve soil compaction/aeration. SOIL QUALITY-AGRONOMY (usda.gov)


I learned it differently on a farm. Both pinto beans and alfalfa improved the nitrogen levels in the soil... enough that sugar beets could be raised the following year with very little need for adding nitrogen.
if youd read your link you’d know this.


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## doc- (Jun 26, 2015)

Evons hubby said:


> if youd read your link you’d know this.


Quote from the link-_-"N itrogen release from a legume crop occurs as the above-ground plant residues, roots and nodules gradually decompose." _


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## Evons hubby (Oct 3, 2005)

Which puts the free nitrogen from the air into the soil.... for the next crop as well as feeding this years crop. It’s a win win for the farmer.


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## Pony (Jan 6, 2003)

doc- said:


> I'm not a hater, just one who refuses to tell the Emperor he's got nice clothes. ..Define a "good" source of nutrients? I wouldn;t call any source that supplies less than 25% of a nutrient as good. Squash has no more Vit C than a potato. It is very high in Vit A (too high if you're gunna eat a lot of it). The other nutrints you listed are all less than 10% in squash.


I hope you did not miss my little winky emoticon after I asked about your disdain for squash.

It is a good Vitamin A source, and the other nutrients, while obviously not as dense as you'd like, are still present. 

BTW, both squash and potatoes go well with butter, which is my favorite vegetable. <WINK> <WINK>


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## doc- (Jun 26, 2015)

Pony said:


> It is a good Vitamin A source, and the other nutrients, while obviously not as dense as you'd like, are still present.


Cell biochemistry is pretty much universal-- only minor differences in a few details separate any two species, so anything you eat has all the nutrients present...It's obvious that eating animal cells (cells like our own) will replace nutrients we need better than cells less like our own.

Plant cells are mostly cell wall and a large vacuole in the middle (Didn't you ever look at Spyogyra cells under the microscope in school? You can watch the thin layer of protoplasm circulating around just inside the cell wall with almost nothing in the middle of the cell.)...Vits & Mins aren't "stored" anywhwere in an organism-- just part of the protoplasm. (Except Vit A in the liver.)

There's a reason herbivores spend most of the day munchng while carnivores spend most of the day sleeping and actually only eat for a few minutes after a kill --and maybe not even every day. Nutrient density.

We can't argue about tastes. Some people like head cheese or black pudding. Go figure.


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## Pony (Jan 6, 2003)

@doc- , you're right. Can't argue about taste. I'll eat sulze if I'm really hungry, but kiska/black pudding? Only if I am literally starving - as in 3rd world country starving.

As far as the difference between carnivores and herbivores, I'm glad to be an omnivore. I love my meat, and I like veg, and I like to spend time eating rather than napping.


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## Berwick (11 mo ago)

I thought these were 3 human sisters! 
Who share a common garden!


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## starrynights (Oct 7, 2021)

doc- said:


> Squash, winter, butternut, cooked, baked, without salt Nutrition Facts & Calories (self.com)
> 
> One serving has only 1.5gm protein and les than 10% of almost all oher vits & mins-- If you like the stuff, fine, but it's not worth the effort as far as the nutrition goes...


Aren't potatoes supposed to be a very well rounded source of most of what we need?


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## doc- (Jun 26, 2015)

starrynights said:


> Aren't potatoes supposed to be a very well rounded source of most of what we need?


One of the three best veggies in terms of nutrient density Potato, baked, flesh and skin, without salt Nutrition Facts & Calories Very good source of Vit c, folate, niacin and B6.

Beans are good for protein, thiamine and folate, but have certain digestive--umm-- drawbacks-- that makes taking more than one serving (1cup) a day problematic. Beans, black, mature seeds, cooked, boiled, without salt Nutrition Facts & Calories

BTW- one potato has about 5x more potassium than the Potassium Pills the doc prescribes for pts taking certain diuretics, and 6x more than the banana they often recommend.


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## starrynights (Oct 7, 2021)

doc- said:


> One of the three best veggies in terms of nutrient density Potato, baked, flesh and skin, without salt Nutrition Facts & Calories Very good source of Vit c, folate, niacin and B6.
> 
> Beans are good for protein, thiamine and folate, but have certain digestive--umm-- drawbacks-- that makes taking more than one serving (1cup) a day problematic. Beans, black, mature seeds, cooked, boiled, without salt Nutrition Facts & Calories
> 
> BTW- one potato has about 5x more potassium than the Potassium Pills the doc prescribes for pts taking certain diuretics, and 6x more than the banana they often recommend.


I thought so about the tater. Thanks for the info


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## Irishguy (Feb 17, 2016)

I'm not getting into the vegetable argument, but only sticking my head in the door to say, that I just planted the corn yesterday. 

My experimental 3 Sisters garden is only 8 mounds. I placed clear plastic on top of a bunch of leftover yard compost that has a weed problem. The idea was to cook the weeds and seeds. Having done that I raked it all out into a plot of sorts several inches deep and then made the 8 mounds from the finished product in our compost bin, including brown, green and household vegetable matter, eggs shells and coffee grounds.

Next I planted 5 corn kernels in the center spaced out and watered them all in good. Hopefully those will all sprout. I'll wait 2 weeks to plant the beans, and then another week to plant the squash after the beans sprout.

I'm doing (right or wrong) Blue Lake green beans and yellow squash, because that's what we like to eat.


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## damoc (Jul 14, 2007)

Very cool please keep us posted I would love to see how other plantings turn out. I am trying another three sisters this year.


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## Irishguy (Feb 17, 2016)

Will do! But I'm going to warn you, so far we have not demonstrated the greenest of thumbs. We're thinking of taking up wild foraging instead of gardening.


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## geo in mi (Nov 14, 2008)

Sounds like plan to me. I would go ahead and plant the squash and beans at the same time (when the soil gets to 60 degrees). Hopefully you are planting pole Blue Lake beans, and yellow squash is usually a summer variety you pick very small.

Now if you could only plant sausages, you'd have a great dinner.

geo


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