# What is WRONG with people?



## Danaus29 (Sep 12, 2005)

None of us like wearing masks. Some of us don't believe mask wearing prevents covid. But health officials are trying to keep people from spreading the disease which is why they institute mask mandates. I get protesting having to wear a mask but there are people out there rabid enough to threaten innocent children when mask mandates are ordered.









Missouri health official steps down after her family threatened over coronavirus measures


A Missouri county health director has left her job because of threats she says she received over measures put in place to curb the coronavirus pandemic, including a mask mandate.




www.nbc4i.com





Too many people have been threatened and/or killed on both sides of the issue. I just don't understand why.


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## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

I don't understand either.


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

Fear drives irrational, an uncivil behavior.


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## Farmerga (May 6, 2010)

People don't like to be told what to do. Many resent it. A few REALLY resent it.  Perhaps they should have asked instead of making it a mandate?


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## Danaus29 (Sep 12, 2005)

Farmerga said:


> People don't like to be told what to do. Many resent it. A few REALLY resent it. Perhaps they should have asked instead of making it a mandate?


The same people who don't like being told to stop at red traffic lights or stop signs?
We know how those situations work out.

People were asked. They were asked to stay 6 feet apart and stay home if they are sick too. They won't do that either.

I understand not wearing a mask in an outdoor situation, I understand not wearing a mask if you are the only person in a room, I understand not wearing a mask when speaking to someone hard of hearing. 

But of all the preventive measures, this is the only one people are willing to kill over. That is what I don't get.

I don't see or hear of anyone protesting or having fits about not being allowed in the nursing home to clean up after an elderly relative messes themself.


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## Lisa in WA (Oct 11, 2004)

I’m not sure why people think it’s their right to enter a private business without a mask if the business requires one.
Do they also protest about wearing a short and shoes?


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## SpentPenny (Jun 11, 2020)

Most Americans, at least most honest and good ones, can be asked to do about anything and they will move Heaven and Earth to get it done. OTOH those same people cherish their hard-earned liberty more than they cherish their very lives and will do about anything to preserve it. 

I sure do not wish anyone to get this illness or to die, but I value my liberty more than I value their decision to go out in public and expect that public to accommodate their fears. 

Oh, BTW, I do not resist wearing a mask anywhere in any private business that asks me to whether in person or just by a sign on the door. I am a private property respecting person.


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## poppy (Feb 21, 2008)

And what really galls some of us who see about everyone of those leaders pushing mask mandates caught on tv out in public without masks or violating their own travel orders. A leader should lead, not try to dictate orders for those beneath him while he carries on as normal.


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

poppy said:


> And what really galls some of us who see about everyone of those leaders pushing mask mandates caught on tv out in public without masks or violating their own travel orders. A leader should lead, not try to dictate orders for those beneath him while he carries on as normal.


I think you explained very well why so many are conflicted.

Rules for thee, not for me.


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## wdcutrsdaughter (Dec 9, 2012)

Could it be possible that the powers that be realize that some people won't want to wear a mask and will speak out about it? That in turn angers those that feel strongly about it doesn't it? 
Look, the people are fighting with each other again.


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## RJ2019 (Aug 27, 2019)

I wear mask in all stores an indoor public spaces but my governor lost my respect on the subject when 
1) he told me to mask up in between bites when eating out
2) he attended a birthday party while preaching to us mere plebes about not having gatherings and 
3) he started telling everyone to wear a mask outside too. 
It just gets ridiculous after awhile, sure masks have their place but they will not singlehandedly save the world


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## Redlands Okie (Nov 28, 2017)

People understand that stop signs have a valid purpose. Some still ignore them. Some understand why you should stay in your lane on a left turn, many seem to find it to much of a inconvenience to turn the steering wheel a little bit more and not swap lanes in the middle of the turn. Many people also think that the mask issue seems to be more of a symbolic gesture than a practical application. So there is going to be some problems. Why would any one be surprised to think there would be mask issues.


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## MichaelZ (May 21, 2013)

Last spring I opposed all the restrictions because they were inappropriate for our area. But now it is different. We need to hold out for a little longer and protect our older folks. Vaccine is just around the corner for at risk folks.


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## Danaus29 (Sep 12, 2005)

Redlands Okie said:


> People understand that stop signs have a valid purpose. Some still ignore them. Some understand why you should stay in your lane on a left turn, many seem to find it to much of a inconvenience to turn the steering wheel a little bit more and not swap lanes in the middle of the turn. Many people also think that the mask issue seems to be more of a symbolic gesture than a practical application. So there is going to be some problems. Why would any one be surprised to think there would be mask issues.


I don't care if they think it is a symbolic gesture or futile effort. Threatening families and murdering security guards is just wrong. Have a mask protest, refuse to do business at a place that insists you wear a mask, whatever. But it is NOT worth beating or killing a person over. Why threaten the children of a health commissioner?


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## mreynolds (Jan 1, 2015)

I dont believe wearing a mask threatens my freedom. I dont really think it helps all that much because I see most people not wearing it properly and I have some experience with masks. These cloth masks dont do much if anything.


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## Farmerga (May 6, 2010)

Lisa in WA said:


> I’m not sure why people think it’s their right to enter a private business without a mask if the business requires one.
> Do they also protest about wearing a short and shoes?


A private business can require you to wear a pink tutu to enter if they wish and I have no problem with that. It is government mandates that I resist.


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## barnbilder (Jul 1, 2005)

It has been proven that masks don't work. This is how it's been proven, people mandate masks, then they mandate shutdowns, curfews, and deem some people's livelihood non-essential while others are allowed to remain open. Meanwhile, the people signing the mandates don't do any of those things. Wearing the mask does no good, you wear the mask, stand on the X, and it's still not good enough. Some people refer to the "give them an inch and they'll take a mile" philosophy. So not wearing a mask is taking a firm stance. Communism has killed more people than corona-virus, so it stands to reason that some people figure it's a better course of action to pick the dreaded covid as the lesser of the two evils. Overzealous and unprecedented covid retrictions are not quite up to the status of overtaxed tea, but it's almost right there. Freedom is freedom, you either have it or you don't.


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## fireweed farm (Dec 31, 2010)

barnbilder said:


> It has been proven that masks don't work.


From the top... not true.


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## manfred (Dec 21, 2005)

And communism has not killed people.
What kind of a dumb comparison is that?


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## Alice In TX/MO (May 10, 2002)

1. What we have done has not had the desired effect. 
2. Humans are unreliable.
3. Why are we expecting humans to behave differently and the virus to abate?


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## Danaus29 (Sep 12, 2005)

poppy said:


> And what really galls some of us who see about everyone of those leaders pushing mask mandates caught on tv out in public without masks or violating their own travel orders. A leader should lead, not try to dictate orders for those beneath him while he carries on as normal.


I thought of this post when I read a news article this morning;









Lawmakers debate necessity of a mask mandate in Congress


WASHINGTON (NEXSTAR) — As more members of Congress test positive for COVID-19, some lawmakers are calling for a mask mandate on Capitol Hill. “This is something we shouldn’t even …




www.nbc4i.com





You are right, many "leaders" have a "do as you are told" mentality and think they are above the mandates. 

At least our gov DeWine has been wearing his mask except when he is speaking into the microphone. Then he seems to really push the social distancing thing. At least now he is doing that. He wasn't at the beginning when the CDC said masks are unnecessary.


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## mzgarden (Mar 16, 2012)

Violence is not the answer, but many have not been listened to for so long now that they figure they have no other options? I don't agree but then everyone is not me.

Why are people rising up against the rules? 
People have lost confidence in the people that were supposed to be the experts?
People have lost confidence in many of the political leaders?
People see others wearing masks, staying home, virtual schooling and numbers skyrocketing and wonder why bother?
People see large groups gathering without consistent enforcement against retail stores, churches, weddings, sports games?

Because people look around and don't see a credible, consistent set of instructions that fail to deliver the promised/anticipated responses so they figure why bother?

Seems similar to people at 1am on a deserted road that choose not to wait 2 minutes for the red light to change to green when there's not a car in sight, but during busier driving times would definitely wait.

Because people begin to make their own decisions (right or wrong) when their experts & leaders lose credibility?

and then there's always the small group that just don't follow any rules, not matter what.


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## Alice In TX/MO (May 10, 2002)

Yes.


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## georger (Sep 15, 2003)

I don’t know about anyone else but I don’t have faith in what our “experts” and leaders say here in Canada.

They all seem to be stumblebums, all marching around in stupid circles, yelling at the top of their lungs all the while nonsense rules the day in the guise of “medical advice”.


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## barnbilder (Jul 1, 2005)

fireweed farm said:


> From the top... not true.


Yes. Proven in California. Masks were mandated. Didn't work, so now curfew mandates being kicked around.


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## fireweed farm (Dec 31, 2010)

barnbilder said:


> Yes. Proven in California. Masks were mandated. Didn't work, so now curfew mandates being kicked around.


Tough to have discussions with those with such a narrow view of how things work. You need to think, this isn’t black or white like your politicized pundits have you believe. 

But ok lets try. So say California mandated masks. 
-people are still socializing out of sight, likely the #1 spreaders. 
-kids are still going to school
-healthcare workers are still helping COVID patients
-masks are not 100%
-many wear masks below their nose or improperly 
-anti maskers are out there
-and don’t forget the politics. Right wingers scoff at rules, looks at the states with the greatest spread right now.......

Masks are just one way to slow the spread. This is way catchier than the flu. Notice how the flue has disappeared yet COVID numbers are still going up?


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## barnbilder (Jul 1, 2005)

So you are admitting masks don't work. Glad we are on the same page. Some public restrooms would indicate that there are those among us that haven't mastered the intricacies of indoor plumbing, making any attempt at disease avoidance through proper hygiene a totally personal endeavor requiring individual responsibility.


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## altair (Jul 23, 2011)

I agree leadership should be doing what you're saying. We were/are pretty lucky in Vermont to have pretty strong leadership when Covid struck and our numbers show it. Others on a local or state level weren't as fortunate. While we weren't getting many good examples on a federal level, many were smart enough to try and use common sense.


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## mrghostwalker (Feb 6, 2011)

Blame the WHO, CDC and Dr. Fauci. Each have at one time or another (sometimes more than once) told us that masks doesn't prevent the transmission of Covid. In fact, this past October the CDC reported that most people who got Covid were people who wore masks. 
The "experts" can't seem to make up their minds. It's not surprising that the average person can't figure out if masks help or not- since the experts keep changing their minds.


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## wil14 (Sep 13, 2020)

Before any of this even kicked off I was one of those prepping and telling people I would be working from home. We simply didn't have any data and the stuff in China looked... bad. Now that we have several countries taking different approaches and mortality rates.. I can't really justify the steps we're taking. Sweden seems well enough and hasn't wrecked the lives of their citizenry. It's worse than the flu but it isn't the end of the world unless we make it that.


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## Redlands Okie (Nov 28, 2017)

It’s almost as if many of the people that early on preached a different policy have changed their minds to the current policies due to political reasons. So they are now trying to justify their actions accordingly.


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## HonestAbe (Nov 20, 2020)

barnbilder said:


> It has been proven that masks don't work. This is how it's been proven, people mandate masks, then they mandate shutdowns, curfews, and deem some people's livelihood non-essential while others are allowed to remain open. Meanwhile, the people signing the mandates don't do any of those things. Wearing the mask does no good, you wear the mask, stand on the X, and it's still not good enough. Some people refer to the "give them an inch and they'll take a mile" philosophy. So not wearing a mask is taking a firm stance. Communism has killed more people than corona-virus, so it stands to reason that some people figure it's a better course of action to pick the dreaded covid as the lesser of the two evils. Overzealous and unprecedented covid retrictions are not quite up to the status of overtaxed tea, but it's almost right there. Freedom is freedom, you either have it or you don't.


Isn’t that like saying since all sin and fall short of the glory of god that church does no good and everyone there is a bunch of hypocrites, when the reality is the worse you are the more you need to be there ?


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## Grafton County Couple (Sep 20, 2018)

I'm of the opinion that the pandemic has become a weapon of mass submission.


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## HonestAbe (Nov 20, 2020)

barnbilder said:


> Yes. Proven in California. Masks were mandated. Didn't work, so now curfew mandates being kicked around.


 How do get that ?

I suspect you are ignoring what was said and done and creating your own truth. 
The argument was that mask would slow the transmission of the disease. Do you have any proof that It didn’t?
When people Like you who don’t believe in masks don’t use them and get sick It doesn’t prove your point.


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## barnbilder (Jul 1, 2005)

HonestAbe said:


> How do get that ?
> 
> I suspect you are ignoring what was said and done and creating your own truth.
> The argument was that mask would slow the transmission of the disease. Do you have any proof that It didn’t?
> When people Like you who don’t believe in masks don’t use them and get sick It doesn’t prove your point.


Yes. The proof I have is that after masks were mandated, the mandaters still had to mandate curfews, business closures, etc. Masks do not work, as far as preventing people that mandate masks from mandating other gross infringements on liberty. If you want to wear a mask, wear a mask. If you are worried that me not wearing a mask puts you at risk, wear two of them.


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## Leech (Mar 27, 2020)

I understand the anger. I have found many mom and pop businesses that want my maskless business, while the bigger corporations lost my business. I can do this with politeness and not threats.

When a Governor mandates how many people can be in your house, EVERYONE should be angry. We seem to have split between two groups. The sheep and the free people. I choose to be free. It has nothing to do with masks, more to do with how much govt interference you will allow in your life. I walk the path of a free person and make polite decisions based on that.


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## wr (Aug 10, 2003)

fireweed farm said:


> Masks are just one way to slow the spread. This is way catchier than the flu. Notice how the flue has disappeared yet COVID numbers are still going up?


Do you truly believe that we have conquered seasonal flu with hand sanitizer, masks and social distancing? 

I don't because I happen to know people who have tested positive for the flu or tested negative for covid and it was assumed to be flu. I also know somebody who recently died of flu/covid symptoms and cause of death without testing was listed as covid.


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## fireweed farm (Dec 31, 2010)

wr said:


> Do you truly believe that we have conquered seasonal flu with hand sanitizer, masks and social distancing?
> 
> I don't because I happen to know people who have tested positive for the flu or tested negative for covid and it was assumed to be flu. I also know somebody who recently died of flu/covid symptoms and cause of death without testing was listed as covid.


Anyone I know who has been COVID tested went for a COVID test. Not a flu test. Two separate tests and healthy people generally ride the flu out at home. But that’s here, perhaps different in Alberta?

Do you honestly believe social distancing and hygiene are not helping keep flu numbers way lower than an average year? Numbers are way lower than usual.

I am sorry about the loss of your friend/acquaintance. I find it hard to believe they were not tested yet was claimed COVID. How well did you know them, well enough to see death certificate and know the tests their doc have given? Because they are testing anyone with symptoms. And you don’t just drop dead of Covid- you get super sick and it generally takes weeks of illness before you die. No test? Seems fishy. I know Alberta has really been struggling with high numbers due to relaxed regulations (as the residents seem to want) but doubt COVID patients are being mislabelled as was apparently happening in the States.


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## fishhead (Jul 19, 2006)

barnbilder said:


> It has been proven that masks don't work. This is how it's been proven, people mandate masks, then they mandate shutdowns, curfews, and deem some people's livelihood non-essential while others are allowed to remain open. Meanwhile, the people signing the mandates don't do any of those things. Wearing the mask does no good, you wear the mask, stand on the X, and it's still not good enough. Some people refer to the "give them an inch and they'll take a mile" philosophy. So not wearing a mask is taking a firm stance. Communism has killed more people than corona-virus, so it stands to reason that some people figure it's a better course of action to pick the dreaded covid as the lesser of the two evils. Overzealous and unprecedented covid retrictions are not quite up to the status of overtaxed tea, but it's almost right there. Freedom is freedom, you either have it or you don't.


That's false. Masks do reduce the transmission of the virus.


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## B&L Chicken Ranch and Spa (Jan 4, 2019)

Danaus29 said:


> The same people who don't like being told to stop at red traffic lights or stop signs?
> We know how those situations work out.
> 
> People were asked. They were asked to stay 6 feet apart and stay home if they are sick too. They won't do that either.
> ...



What we are being told about covid is political, not medical. Many people realize this. Many other people are stimulated by fear. Mix this with peoples ability to EARN A LIVING AND SUPPORT THEIR FAMILY'S andthis creates more drama. Many people have decided that education is not a priority for them (talk to 3rd world people and learn how they feel about education) and rely on the main stream media for information and education. The MSM will tell you, when asked, they are entertainment, not the news. Clicks are important to them, so what motivates them?

We are inhibiting our entire population to protect a few. Monetarily it would be much more efficient to quarantine the susceptible people rather than the whole population. Why is this happening? In engineering the KISS method is how things are usually done. Deep throat once said "follow the money". Hydrocloriquin, is cheep and readily available. Other treatments are expensive and very profitable. Shutting down the small businesses also shuts down a huge part of the middle class and conservative base. Clicks make the MSM profits. Is there a simple path that explains what is happening here? I think so. 

You can wear your mask. stay away from me. You may not like my reaction either.


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## B&L Chicken Ranch and Spa (Jan 4, 2019)

fishhead said:


> That's false. Masks do reduce the transmission of the virus.


Nope


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## wr (Aug 10, 2003)

fireweed farm said:


> Anyone I know who has been COVID tested went for a COVID test. Not a flu test. Two separate tests and healthy people generally ride the flu out at home. But that’s here, perhaps different in Alberta?
> 
> Do you honestly believe social distancing and hygiene are not helping keep flu numbers way lower than an average year? Numbers are way lower than usual.
> 
> I am sorry about the loss of your friend/acquaintance. I find it hard to believe they were not tested yet was claimed COVID. How well did you know them, well enough to see death certificate and know the tests their doc have given? Because they are testing anyone with symptoms. And you don’t just drop dead of Covid- you get super sick and it generally takes weeks of illness before you die. No test? Seems fishy. I know Alberta has really been struggling with high numbers due to relaxed regulations (as the residents seem to want) but doubt COVID patients are being mislabelled as was apparently happening in the States.


You're misinformed if you believe that anybody who dies of the virus lingers for weeks. Some do and some don't but I know my friend got sick quickly, had underlying health issues, was taken to hospital and died the following day. 

I know them well enough to have sat with the family at the hospital and well enough to have carried the death certificate to the funeral home but that's not really the point. 

You made the bold statement that there was no flu this year and I disagree. Testing for flu has decreased because doctors direct patients with syptoms to the nearest Covid testing centre first. 

You are correct in your belief that most people who get the flu tough it out just fine, just as most who get covid do as well but there's a very good chance that if you've made it long enough to get your negative covid results, there's a good chance whatever ails you is on it's way to recovery. 

I'm not sure either of us knows what the average Albertan wants and it doesn't really matter because, just like any other province, politicians and health autorities are setting the rules but I'm pretty sure that the rules that suit an office in Calgary make no sense in my office, nor do they make sense on my neighbour's farm.


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## Danaus29 (Sep 12, 2005)

B&L Chicken Ranch and Spa said:


> We are inhibiting our entire population to protect a few. Monetarily it would be much more efficient to quarantine the susceptible people rather than the whole population.
> You can wear your mask. stay away from me. You may not like my reaction either.


We have quarantined many of the most susceptible and that has not turned out well. Some susceptible people are essential workers, they were not and are able to stay home. They need their jobs.

We have reopened schools and that has not turned out well. I don't know what protective measures have been taken in schools but they have not been protective enough. Covid has been spreading exponentially in schools.

But I do agree that the early shut-down/lock-down was not a good idea. Letting big box stores stay open but closing small stores that provide the same services was just WRONG. Closing small restaurants but letting every chain fast food place stay open was WRONG. Waiting until September to allow expanded outdoor dining (Ohio) was just stupid.

Keeping children who need the extra attention out of school has set them back, some may never catch up.

There were a lot of things that were done wrong. The biggest was depending on foreign made PPE. If we had a supply of PPE many medical facilities would have been able to keep serving patients at the beginning. 

Because I wear a mask to comply with govt regulations is no reason to start a fight. I don't say anything to people who wear masks improperly or not at all. I don't believe they make much of a difference anyway.


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## Roy Gilbert (Apr 11, 2020)

Danaus29 said:


> None of us like wearing masks. Some of us don't believe mask wearing prevents covid. But health officials are trying to keep people from spreading the disease which is why they institute mask mandates. I get protesting having to wear a mask but there are people out there rabid enough to threaten innocent children when mask mandates are ordered.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Would those who object to mask mandates because the gummint is telling us what to do ... feel that speeding laws should not be enforced ... what is the difference?


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## Danaus29 (Sep 12, 2005)

Roy Gilbert said:


> Would those who object to mask mandates because the gummint is telling us what to do ... feel that speeding laws should not be enforced ... what is the difference?


You make a valid point. Kind of like those people who drive 80 mph in a couple of 45 mph construction areas on I 71 in Columbus. They say they aren't hurting anyone and the reduced speed is stupid. 

I am not a fan of govt intrusion but I can understand when they try to protect the general public from itself. Sometimes mandates and laws are necessary.


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## Redlands Okie (Nov 28, 2017)

Roy Gilbert said:


> Would those who object to mask mandates because the gummint is telling us what to do ... feel that speeding laws should not be enforced ... what is the difference?


Highways have been designed to handle certain volumes of vehicles and handle them up to certain speeds. It’s just a matter of math. The average vehicles design is taken into account. People who are concerned also realize that the properly designed and maintained vehicle they drive, provides some degree of protection from others. The average person realizes this. It is not just a feel good measure. 

Many people believe the mask issue being mandated in many areas is a feel good measure, with little or no actual effectiveness. The average design, effectiveness, and condition of the mask used, with the average persons handling of the mask, reinforces these feelings. For those concerned, it would be a good idea to use properly designed mask, correctly worn, with proper distance. Kind of like cars on the highway. 

To really be safe from speeding, or covid, it would be best to personally and properly use well designed equipment. Not a bad idea to keep out of harms way to start with.


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

Good governors get an Emmie


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## HonestAbe (Nov 20, 2020)

barnbilder said:


> Yes. The proof I have is that after masks were mandated, the mandaters still had to mandate curfews, business closures, etc. Masks do not work, as far as preventing people that mandate masks from mandating other gross infringements on liberty. If you want to wear a mask, wear a mask. If you are worried that me not wearing a mask puts you at risk, wear two of them.


that’s not how it works! It’s like saying I put up the fence posts but the cows got out
All the things you list and more are part of a system each help and they all contribute but it takes far more to be the perfect system

the fence posts are the foundation of the system some barbed wire helps another strand helps more a roll of woven wire helps more a strand of stand off electric helps even more and if you have something extremely valuable like your life to protect and your neighbors might have something really scary Over there wouldn’t you like them to have a entire fence too ?

think of it in terms of good neighbors build good fences


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## Redlands Okie (Nov 28, 2017)

If I want to keep the neighbors horses out of my garden, or their dog away from the kids playing in the yard you can rest assured I will have a fence to keep them OUT. Long experience has proven that it is a bad idea to rely on them to provide good fencing to keep their critters home. Kind of feel the same way about mask.

My fence is what makes them good neighbors.


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

HonestAbe said:


> that’s not how it works! It’s like saying I put up the fence posts but the cows got out
> All the things you list and more are part of a system each help and they all contribute but it takes far more to be the perfect system
> 
> the fence posts are the foundation of the system some barbed wire helps another strand helps more a roll of woven wire helps more a strand of stand off electric helps even more and if you have something extremely valuable like your life to protect and your neighbors might have something really scary Over there wouldn’t you like them to have a entire fence too ?
> ...


Foxes & coyotes still get through the fence.

Most masks are like a barb wire fence for mosquito 









Comparison of Mask Ratings, Standards, and Filtration Effectiveness – Smart Air


Mask standards can be confusing! This simple guide covers what the ratings (FFP1, FFP2, FFP3, N95, N99 KN95) mean in plain English and how they vary by country.



smartairfilters.com


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## rickfrosty (Jun 19, 2008)

Danaus29 said:


> None of us like wearing masks. Some of us don't believe mask wearing prevents covid. But health officials are trying to keep people from spreading the disease which is why they institute mask mandates. I get protesting having to wear a mask but there are people out there rabid enough to threaten innocent children when mask mandates are ordered.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


"Health Officials" are useful idiots for the globalists pushing this scamdemic for their NWO agenda .


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## barnbilder (Jul 1, 2005)

The virus is not really that much of a threat. But mask compliance is. The virus has not been able to make a significant bump in death numbers. It only replaced flu, pneumonia, and heart failure as the reason people inevitably die. Mask compliance has made a significant bump in the erosion of personal freedom, you wear the mask, people see you wear the mask, it makes them giddy with new found power, then they want to limit gatherings, enforce curfews, and close people's businesses. No thanks, not playing.


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## Vjk (Apr 28, 2020)

Look on the bright side. All the BLM and FA terrorists are dieing of Covid.


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## Alice In TX/MO (May 10, 2002)

Very few are dying of covid. There is another post about that.


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## B&L Chicken Ranch and Spa (Jan 4, 2019)

Danaus29 said:


> We have quarantined many of the most susceptible and that has not turned out well. Some susceptible people are essential workers, they were not and are able to stay home. They need their jobs.
> 
> We have reopened schools and that has not turned out well. I don't know what protective measures have been taken in schools but they have not been protective enough. Covid has been spreading exponentially in schools.
> 
> ...


Yes, there were/are many things being done wrong.

The real question is: *What is being done right?* Honestly, and not being political, I see little being done correctly in the blue states. Also, "We have quarantined many of the most susceptible and that has not turned out well". NOT TRUE". Where it went badly is places where sick people were sent to facilities where vulnerable were housed, and they knew it! Florida, for example, has done well.

I never blindly trusted the government, now, if a politician or gov "official" dare to enter my property, I would run them off, even if it were to hand me a winning lotto ticket.


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## B&L Chicken Ranch and Spa (Jan 4, 2019)

Vjk said:


> Look on the bright side. All the BLM and FA terrorists are dieing of Covid.


NO SUCH LUCK


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## fireweed farm (Dec 31, 2010)

Vjk said:


> Look on the bright side. All the BLM and FA terrorists are dieing of Covid.


Actually not currently true.
It is Trump country and Trump voters who are currently infecting one another.


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## mreynolds (Jan 1, 2015)

fireweed farm said:


> Actually not currently true.
> It is Trump country and Trump voters who are currently infecting one another.


El Paso is Trump Country? They are twice as blue as Austin and three times more blue that LA. 

Read the news every once in a while.


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## Mish (Oct 15, 2015)

Roy Gilbert said:


> Would those who object to mask mandates because the gummint is telling us what to do ... feel that speeding laws should not be enforced ... what is the difference?


Driving is a privilege. Living your life as you see fit isn't.


----------



## fireweed farm (Dec 31, 2010)

mreynolds said:


> El Paso is Trump Country? They are twice as blue as Austin and three times more blue that LA.
> 
> Read the news every once in a while.


I didn’t mention el paso.
Have a look and let me know how much of those dark spots are Biden stronghold. This is per capita. 




__





COVID Data Tracker


CDC’s home for COVID-19 data. Visualizations, graphs, and data in one easy-to-use website.



covid.cdc.gov


----------



## Danaus29 (Sep 12, 2005)

B&L Chicken Ranch and Spa said:


> Yes, there were/are many things being done wrong.
> 
> The real question is: *What is being done right?* Honestly, and not being political, I see little being done correctly in the blue states. Also, "We have quarantined many of the most susceptible and that has not turned out well". NOT TRUE". Where it went badly is places where sick people were sent to facilities where vulnerable were housed, and they knew it!


Here there have been issues with staff bringing covid into the nursing homes. The residents/patients are being kept from their families who often times helped with their care. The staff is free to do and see what and who they want. Many cases of covid here have been traced to infected staff. Even at the one nursing home that was willing to talk to the media, over half of their covid cases were in long term, not recently admitted, patients. Early in the pandemic about 70% of Ohio covid deaths were nursing home residents.

What is Ohio doing right? Not much. 

What is Ohio doing wrong? We still don't have enough tests to be capable of testing all who want or need testing. Our license expiration renewal has been pushed back again. Prisoners who committed violent crimes were released from jail. The govt has required businesses to enforce mask policies. The demonstration/riots were permitted at a time when church services were cancelled. I could go on and on about what, in my opinion, Ohio is doing wrong.

What could be done better? I think the state could have come up with some sort of assistance program to help people who want to remove loved ones from nursing homes. If the state wants to enforce a mask mandate, they need to enforce it. The state needs to acquire more PPE for residents and businesses. The state should have allowed outdoor dining throughout the summer. The state needs to start requiring people to renew license plates and drivers licenses, maybe with a 6 month leeway, but not let people continue to skirt the law indefinately. The state should offer some assistance to those who lost their jobs but are willing to take lower paying jobs to make ends meet, not the all or nothing offered through unemployment. The state should have allowed small businesses to stay open at the beginning.


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## mreynolds (Jan 1, 2015)

You said Trump voters. Are the Trump voters filling up those refrigerated trucks in El Paso? 

When you blame one certain sect of people you have a one sided view and confirmation bias. You want to find a scapegoat for what you perceive as an issue.

And it's everyone but you isnt it?


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## HonestAbe (Nov 20, 2020)

HDRider said:


> Foxes & coyotes still get through the fence.
> 
> Most masks are like a barb wire fence for mosquito
> 
> ...


 I doubt a few fence poles would even be that effective.
Are you ignoring that masks are a component of a system? 
I don’t think anyone has said cheep masks will fix it all just that they help when used in conjunction with other components


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## Redlands Okie (Nov 28, 2017)

When relying on such a ineffective component as part of a system one should not be surprised to see the system fail.


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## HonestAbe (Nov 20, 2020)

Lol Back to the fence analogy a fence post Is pretty ineffective. You see that’s how components work. 
Some cheep stuff that can’t do poo by themselves have good Results when used together.


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## barnbilder (Jul 1, 2005)

If you want to use a farming analogy, lets make the farmers on each side of the property line put in fence posts, (but no wire) then we will use herding dogs to make sure the cows don't go in the hayfield, but we will let them go in the yard and the garden. And we will make the healthy cows starve while we keep the downer cows out of the road, but they will get in the road anyway because someone knocked the gate off the hinges with the tractor. Then when the downer cows get hit in the road, the farmer that put in his fence posts can blame the farmer that didn't put his fence posts in between his fence posts shortening the eight foot gap to a four foot gap.


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## HonestAbe (Nov 20, 2020)

Lol yeah that’s about right
But you’re forgetting the face mask are not the only component of public health right now.
Social distancing hand sanitizing testing and quarantining reduced public interaction etc. are all components none of them are perfect none of them will stop the disease individually or collectively but each of them and all of them together greatly reduce the amount of disease.


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

HonestAbe said:


> Lol yeah that’s about right
> But you’re forgetting the face mask are not the only component of public health right now.
> Social distancing hand sanitizing testing and quarantining reduced public interaction etc. are all components none of them are perfect none of them will stop the disease individually or collectively but each of them and all of them together greatly reduce the amount of disease.


And none of that stops the China flu. Maybe it slows the spread, maybe, maybe maybe, but does not stop it. It will spread until there is no one to spread to. Maybe a vaccine will stop most of it, maybe, maybe, maybe. 

My fence stops my cows every time.


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## barnbilder (Jul 1, 2005)

How long have you had cows?


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

barnbilder said:


> How long have you had cows?


Not long. 5 years


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## barnbilder (Jul 1, 2005)

I have experienced five year periods that my fences stopped my cows every time.


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

barnbilder said:


> I have experienced five year periods that my fences stopped my cows every time.


I have been lucky, and most of my fences are not much more than a suggestion.


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## HonestAbe (Nov 20, 2020)

HDRider said:


> And none of that stops the China flu. Maybe it slows the spread, maybe, maybe maybe, but does not stop it. It will spread until there is no one to spread to. Maybe a vaccine will stop most of it, maybe, maybe, maybe.
> 
> My fence stops my cows every time.


Do you suppose the first fence stopped all the cows every time before they finished building it? Or did it take a while to develop the knowledge to build a good fence?

Does your fence also succeed in keeping coyotes wolves bears foxes rats mice cats rabbits and most importantly dogs out?


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

HonestAbe said:


> Do you suppose the first fence stopped all the cows every time before they finished building it? Or did it take a while to develop the knowledge to build a good fence?
> 
> Does your fence also succeed in keeping coyotes wolves bears foxes rats mice cats rabbits and most importantly dogs out?


I agree, wearing a mask, Covid is like a dog through the fence. I had said that very thing many posts ago


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## HonestAbe (Nov 20, 2020)

Yes but a lot of people seem to be saying since a mask all by itself isn’t perfect there’s no point in doing it.

it does a little bit something else does a little bit more does a little bit others do a little bit and after a while you’ll accomplish quite a bit

You know you can’t feed A herd cows with one blade of grass.
But a couple hundred acres of grass will feed a lot of cows.
Point is though you have to have that first blade of grass and the second and the third in the next 10 million.

You know your socks won’t keep you warm they’re part of the system but even though they won’t keep you warm by themselves you still wear them or your feet will get cold in the snow.


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

HonestAbe said:


> You know your socks won’t keep you warm


I know for a fact my socks help keep my feet warm. It is a certainty. No debate, no argument whatsoever.

I have never been stopped in Walmart for not wearing socks


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## Danaus29 (Sep 12, 2005)

If you put up a good fence to keep all the cows inside you don't have to worry about them getting out on the road. So maybe putting razor wire and electric fence around the homes of sick people would keep them away from the rest of us.

Too bad you can't get 6 foot bamboo canes anywhere right now. Someone gets within that distance you can give them a poke in the gut.


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## Redlands Okie (Nov 28, 2017)

Just take those fence post and put them in right next to each other. It will take a few more post but that fence will handle most livestock including dogs. No money saving wire even needed. Now it’s going to cost a bit more than a fence with post every 8 feet and wire ran between them. But who cares, its a fence that will do the job for just about any kind of livestock. 

The same applies for a n-95 mask. It’s built better with small spaces between the strands of fabric. Just like that solid picket post fence it’s going to keep most things out or in and it’s going to cost a bit more. 

Want to wear a surgical mask thats fine, do not expect any better service than that fence with post 8 feet apart and a few strands of wire. It will stop the big critters, but the little ones are coming through.


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## HonestAbe (Nov 20, 2020)

Danaus29 said:


> If you put up a good fence to keep all the cows inside you don't have to worry about them getting out on the road. So maybe putting razor wire and electric fence around the homes of sick people would keep them away from the rest of us.
> 
> Too bad you can't get 6 foot bamboo canes anywhere right now. Someone gets within that distance you can give them a poke in the gut.


 True but remember a. Mask isn’t a fence it’s just a post, just one part of the system


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## HonestAbe (Nov 20, 2020)

HDRider said:


> I know for a fact my socks help keep my feet warm. It is a certainty. No debate, no argument whatsoever.
> 
> I have never been stopped in Walmart for not wearing socks


Yep but they don’t do a thing for your butt.
You don’t go out in the snow naked except for your socks and expect them to keep you warm don’t you? YOU understand they are part of a system so you put on your socks and your boots and your pants some underwear ,shirt too,a jacket ,earmuffs, a hat ,maybe a scarf And some gloves.
You know how a system works, You’re not dumb enough to go out to play in the snow without your pants because you know your socks will keep you warm.
Don’t try to convince people that you don’t know how systems work.
Since you know how system works it’s disingenuous to pretend like you think a simple little piece of cloth mask is going to keep you safe from the flu all by itself.
Be honest with yourself what would your mother tell you?
Don’t forget your boots and gloves!


----------



## HonestAbe (Nov 20, 2020)

Danaus29 said:


> If you put up a good fence to keep all the cows inside you don't have to worry about them getting out on the road. So maybe putting razor wire and electric fence around the homes of sick people would keep them away from the rest of us.
> 
> Too bad you can't get 6 foot bamboo canes anywhere right now. Someone gets within that distance you can give them a poke in the gut.


well I guess that’s where the illustration breaks down because if you put all the people that are sick behind the razor wire it won’t stop the problem because you can’t tell they’re sick until after they’ve been sick long enough to get others sick.


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## barnbilder (Jul 1, 2005)

I know how the system works. Masks today, chains tommorow. Not interested.


----------



## Danaus29 (Sep 12, 2005)

HonestAbe said:


> well I guess that’s where the illustration breaks down because if you put all the people that are sick behind the razor wire it won’t stop the problem because you can’t tell they’re sick until after they’ve been sick long enough to get others sick.


And just how long do most people experience symptoms before they decide they should be tested? There are many examples of super-spreader events where people thought they had something else (yeh, like their other crap wasn't contagious) but attended large events anyway. Then they later found out they had covid.

If people who are sick would just stay home, the spread of all illness would be greatly reduced. 









DDOT driver who said woman coughed on his bus dies of COVID-19


In his March 21 Facebook post, Jason Hargrove spoke heatedly about a woman coughing on the bus without covering her mouth



www.detroitnews.com


----------



## Alice In TX/MO (May 10, 2002)

Yeah. That works. I was a school teacher. Parents send their kids to school sick. Teachers come to work sick.

Humans do not make good decisions.


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## HonestAbe (Nov 20, 2020)

Lol just cause you don’t like them doesn’t mean they were not good choices.
For a single mom who is going to lose her job if she takes another day off, sending kids to school sick with no repercussions is a good choice.

The system is made that way now, if the choice was paying all the medical bills for the kids and your wages for your time out of work if she sends her kids to school sick I bet she would make different choices.


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## Redlands Okie (Nov 28, 2017)

Many want others to wear a mask to supposedly protect them, even if its done wrong and with inferior products. Same mentality is going to expect free day care of their sick child during a school day. 

As said above. Humans do not make good decisions.


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## HonestAbe (Nov 20, 2020)

barnbilder said:


> I know how the system works. Masks today, chains tommorow. Not interested.


that just seems so odd because wearing a mask means you can hide your identity I would think you would be upset about having to reveal your identity
Do the laws that say you have to cover your genitals in public upset you? Or do you comply with them?


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## HonestAbe (Nov 20, 2020)

Here’s the thing about masks, obviously if you are well they don’t keep you from spreading the disease and if you’re sick And you know it hopefully you’re at home being taken care of and effectively quarantined.
I don’t know how effective they are in keeping The virus out if you want I can breeze.

So I think their most effective key time is that short time When you have the virus and are spreading it but don’t know you have it yet.

it’s a short time and yes he may not be wearing a mask perfectly but reducing the spread of the infectious factor even a little bit at that time helps a lot.


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## Danaus29 (Sep 12, 2005)

HonestAbe said:


> For a single mom who is going to lose her job if she takes another day off, sending kids to school sick with no repercussions is a good choice.
> 
> The system is made that way now, if the choice was paying all the medical bills for the kids and your wages for your time out of work if she sends her kids to school sick I bet she would make different choices.


That applies to single dads, caretaker grandparents and married people. Too many employers do not allow a day or two at a time off to care for sick children. I still maintain the stance that if employers were required to provide paid time off for those with covid symptoms we could have avoided the shut-down and people would still have jobs instead of the mess we are facing now. 

The government shutting down day cares also kept people from working. How can a person go to work and leave their immature children home alone? Many were faced with no choice except to quit their jobs. 

It would have been much cheaper in the long run for the govt to pay individual time off instead of mass shut-downs where entire businesses were closed. Those businesses brought in tax dollars, employees paid income taxes, the shut down cut down on a large portion of the govt income.


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## Alice In TX/MO (May 10, 2002)

Exactly. You hit the nail with the hammer.

In January or February, the local (county and state) government drones (worker bees, not flying toys) will realize that the normal influx of property taxes isn't coming in. The companies that depended on 2020's income to pay the property taxes on the dry cleaner building and parking lot (for example) simply won't have the dollars in the bank.

In April or May, the federal government drones will realize that the normal influx of income taxes isn't coming in. A significant portion of U.S. tax payers have lost their jobs, taken massive pay cuts, or some other financial hit.

Government drones will quake. Shock. Horror. Running in circles waving hands and shrieking.

Unanticipated consequences will be the aftermath of that "two week shut down to flatten the curve" that we've been engaged in since March.


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

Alice In TX/MO said:


> Exactly. You hit the nail with the hammer.
> 
> In January or February, the local (county and state) government drones (worker bees, not flying toys) will realize that the normal influx of property taxes isn't coming in. The companies that depended on 2020's income to pay the property taxes on the dry cleaner building and parking lot (for example) simply won't have the dollars in the bank.
> 
> ...


Will you pay all the property taxes you owe?

Will you @TripleD ?

How many on here that own rental property will fail to pay property taxes?


----------



## Redlands Okie (Nov 28, 2017)

Comments above mentioning employers should have been required to pay employees while they were shut down. Keep in mind that just shutting down has put a lot of business on the brink of or into the out or business category. Paying wages with nothing coming up in would put even more out of business. 

The lost taxes from the shutdowns are already wrecking havoc on city, county, state budgets. It’s probably going to get worse with the incoming administration. Also keep in mind the various government entities are going to collect property tax one way or the other.


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

Redlands Okie said:


> government entities are going to collect property tax one way or the other


Yep


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## Danaus29 (Sep 12, 2005)

Redlands Okie said:


> Comments above mentioning employers should have been required to pay employees while they were shut down. Keep in mind that just shutting down has put a lot of business on the brink of or into the out or business category. Paying wages with nothing coming up in would put even more out of business.
> 
> The lost taxes from the shutdowns are already wrecking havoc on city, county, state budgets. It’s probably going to get worse with the incoming administration. Also keep in mind the various government entities are going to collect property tax one way or the other.


Read it again. I said pay employees to stay home to avoid a shut down. Employees can't call in sick if the business is closed.

Where do you think much of the funds for unemployment payments originated? Businesses are required to pay into an unemployment fund. When they are not operating they are not contributing to that fund.


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## HonestAbe (Nov 20, 2020)

Alice In TX/MO said:


> Exactly. You hit the nail with the hammer.
> 
> In January or February, the local (county and state) government drones (worker bees, not flying toys)


Lol are you sure they’re not really flying toys ? I kind of like that image!


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## Redlands Okie (Nov 28, 2017)

Danaus29 said:


> Read it again. I said pay employees to stay home to avoid a shut down. Employees can't call in sick if the business is closed.
> 
> Where do you think much of the funds for unemployment payments originated? Businesses are required to pay into an unemployment fund. When they are not operating they are not contributing to that fund.


Perhaps my mistake then. When I read employees I assume that the funds come from the employer, the business. Thus the issue with paying out money when nothing was being produced or earned for the business. Never occurred to me that it was possible for employed people to qualify for a paycheck from government collected taxes or other fees.


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## Danaus29 (Sep 12, 2005)

Maybe I wasn't clear. What I have a huge problem with was shutting down businesses which forced many onto the unemployment rolls. Those people got an extra $600 a week in unemployment benefits which gave thousands of people more money than they had earned while working. It would have been better to pay people with symptoms, or those who had a household member with symptoms, their standard daily wages while they stayed home.

The shut-downs were supposed to slow the spread and they did postpone covid infections. But thousands of people may never recover from the economic, emotional and educational damage done by shutting down in the beginning.


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## mreynolds (Jan 1, 2015)

HDRider said:


> Will you pay all the property taxes you owe?
> 
> Will you @TripleD ?
> 
> How many on here that own rental property will fail to pay property taxes?


I will pay mine as will most landlords. Some probably will not. I think @Alice In TX/MO is talking more about commercial property and private property. Hospitality and restaurants landlords will be hard pressed to pay theirs. Those that lease Dollar Stores and Walmart building will do just fine. People that lost their jobs or got their income cut will also feel the pain. 

In fact, I just paid mine for the year on all but the one I closed on last Wednesday.


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## Alice In TX/MO (May 10, 2002)

I have paid most of mine, too. I will finish next week. The management company that deals with the dry cleaner told me they have a two year cushion.


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## mreynolds (Jan 1, 2015)

Redlands Okie said:


> Also keep in mind the various government entities are going to collect property tax one way or the other.


Yes, but keep in mind there is a process for that too. Landlord A cant pay taxes so it goes in arrears. Then there is a lengthy to very lengthy process to get them evicted. Then another process to sell that property at auction. Every county in Texas has different rules. Lets take Galveston for example.

100k property that owes 2k in taxes. First year no taxes but they go through the process of eviction.

Second year still have the process.

Third year they evict and out up for auction.

Sell for minimum 2k.

So they are only getting 2k for 3 years worth of taxes instead of 6k. That is a big loss. Now, combine that with 25% of properties and you can see it snowball.

ETA: MY county has a 10 year stall before it goes to auction. I just used Galveston because there are so many they do it more often. Many just go on the struck off list because there are often more properties than buyers at auction.


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

mreynolds said:


> I will pay mine as will most landlords. Some probably will not. I think @Alice In TX/MO is talking more about commercial property and private property. Hospitality and restaurants landlords will be hard pressed to pay theirs. Those that lease Dollar Stores and Walmart building will do just fine. People that lost their jobs or got their income cut will also feel the pain.
> 
> In fact, I just paid mine for the year on all but the one I closed on last Wednesday.


It seems to me that a lot of commercial space is teetering on the edge. Less demand for office space, and Amazon's slaughter of retail.


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## barnbilder (Jul 1, 2005)

At this point, anybody that has anything to do with keeping the country alive and moving and not buried in it's own filth has been exposed. Many were exposed prior to China, and their buddies in the WHO, ever knowing that this cold virus was a new cold virus. They survived without masks, without social distancing, without any concern for their health and safety, it's what they do. If this virus was as bad as people hiding from it thought it was, they would be in really bad shape now, because the people that know how to take care of them would all be dead. But no, they managed to survive, and are still trying to provide you with your needs, not because they care about you, but because it is what they believe in doing to survive. Now, they feel incredibly punished by being rewarded with punitive attacks on the things that they look forward to, the things that make it worthwhile putting up with your garbage and hassle. If you see these people not wearing a mask, they might very well be trying to kill you at this point, although they can't, because they have been vaccinated since last February or March some time.


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

It is an exercise in control, conditioning.

Claiming the end of the world because of climate change for the most part fell flat.

I do expect the exercises will become more regular, and more strenuous.

BTW- How are thing in Portland now?


----------



## mreynolds (Jan 1, 2015)

HDRider said:


> It seems to me that a lot of commercial space is teetering on the edge. Less demand for office space, and Amazon's slaughter of retail.


And it was headed that way anyway but the pandemic really set it off good.


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## HonestAbe (Nov 20, 2020)

There is always money to be made in any change


----------



## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

HonestAbe said:


> There is always money to be made in any change


Exactly, be it Baron Nathan Mayer Rothschild's "Buy when blood is on the street" or Buffett's "attempt to be fearful when others are greedy and to be greedy only when others are fearful".

Change is the driving force for the Leaders of the Climate Change Alarmists. They know they can make money tearing things down, and building them back.


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

You need a panic to facilitate panic buying


----------



## The Paw (May 19, 2006)

Getting back to the original title of the thread, I saw the story on the swinger's convention "Naughty in N'Awlins" where 200 plus wife swappers got together for 3 days and 40 of them left with a covid infection. The promoter thinks that, in retrospect, maybe the event was a bad idea..... (insert face smack emoji here).

Which leads me to ask again: What is wrong with People?😱


----------



## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

The Paw said:


> Getting back to the original title of the thread, I saw the story on the swinger's convention "Naughty in N'Awlins" where 200 plus wife swappers got together for 3 days and 40 of them left with a covid infection. The promoter thinks that, in retrospect, maybe the event was a bad idea..... (insert face smack emoji here).
> 
> Which leads me to ask again: What is wrong with People?😱


I bet some got other infections too


----------



## emdeengee (Apr 20, 2010)

Some people hate change. Some much more than others. People also like to make themselves important, draw attention to themselves or just cause drama and trouble. Some are stupid, others ignorant and others selfish and arrogant. This is nothing new and common around the world. Thankfully there are more good people than bad. 

Getting people to wear masks, really stay isolated and follow all the other public health and pandemic rules and then to actually take the vaccines will be a big problem but also nothing new. Back in the Dust Bowl era farmers refused to change the way they were planting as advised by the government scientists. Rather stick to the old way and continue to watch their soil degenerate. So the government had to PAY them to change their farming practices. Probably going to have to reward people to follow the public health and pandemic rules and take the vaccines. Or just continue to watch an America die from Covid-19 every minute. So sad.


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## Alice In TX/MO (May 10, 2002)

I may have said this before.

What is “wrong” is that people are humans.

What is really wrong is expecting humans (individually and in groups) to act in any specific way.


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## barnbilder (Jul 1, 2005)

emdeengee said:


> Some people hate change. Some much more than others. People also like to make themselves important, draw attention to themselves or just cause drama and trouble. Some are stupid, others ignorant and others selfish and arrogant. This is nothing new and common around the world. Thankfully there are more good people than bad.
> 
> Getting people to wear masks, really stay isolated and follow all the other public health and pandemic rules and then to actually take the vaccines will be a big problem but also nothing new. Back in the Dust Bowl era farmers refused to change the way they were planting as advised by the government scientists. Rather stick to the old way and continue to watch their soil degenerate. So the government had to PAY them to change their farming practices. Probably going to have to reward people to follow the public health and pandemic rules and take the vaccines. Or just continue to watch an America die from Covid-19 every minute. So sad.


What is stupid and ignorant is pretending that this disease is any different than the myriads of other respiratory diseases that have been the straw that broke the camels back for humans at the end of their life for millennia. I'm going to die. You are going to die. Everyone is going to die. Get over it. How many people die a day in the US? | IndexMundi Blog People die every twelve seconds. It's normal.

The sad thing is, all of the egregious assaults of freedom as well as the vaccine will be viewed as a glowing success once a vaccine is in circulation. You know, the vaccine that will most likely be forced on people that already fought this disease and won before politicians and businessmen saw a chance to make money and gain power with a natural phenomenon.The vaccine will take credit for the sucess of antibodies produced back in February through April of this past year, by essential Americans that are sick and tired of carrying everyone, and suffering the punitive attacks of their freedom, the asaults on their happiness by people that could have, and should have, just stayed inside untill they felt it was safe to come out.


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## TripleD (Feb 12, 2011)

HDRider said:


> Will you pay all the property taxes you owe?
> 
> Will you @TripleD ?
> 
> How many on here that own rental property will fail to pay property taxes?


I might as well reply . I let mine go two to three years. All collected in arrears don't get to go in the current budget. They have to go on existing property improvements like parks and the courthouse remodel.


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## Alice In TX/MO (May 10, 2002)

Are you talking about property taxes?

If so, why have you made that decision?


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

Alice In TX/MO said:


> Are you talking about property taxes?
> 
> If so, why have you made that decision?


He is a strategic thinker.

He paid late so the money went where he wanted to go.


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## TripleD (Feb 12, 2011)

Alice In TX/MO said:


> Are you talking about property taxes?
> 
> If so, why have you made that decision?


I'm single with no kids. One months rent would pay them. It aggravates the tax collector a little but he wont mess with me about it. We are good friends and he likes me showing up for the auctions.


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## B&L Chicken Ranch and Spa (Jan 4, 2019)

In a HEALTHY Society, talking about a virus in the context of Politics, would be alarming. This alarms me.


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## Alice In TX/MO (May 10, 2002)

Paying property taxes alarms you?


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## B&L Chicken Ranch and Spa (Jan 4, 2019)

Alice In TX/MO said:


> Paying property taxes alarms you?


This topic has morphed. "In a HEALTHY Society, talking about a virus in the context of Politics, would be alarming. This alarms me. " 

That alarms me.

I have lived all over this planet and the US has always been a bedrock for me.

In the last month I have learned that this bedrock country of ours is jello. I am sacred. And for the first time feel I may understand what my Jewish Friends went through in the '30s.

Yes. I do hope that I am over reacting.


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## altair (Jul 23, 2011)

TripleD said:


> I'm single with no kids. One months rent would pay them. It aggravates the tax collector a little but he wont mess with me about it. We are good friends and he likes me showing up for the auctions.


In Vermont, the 8% penalty on overdue water/sewer/property taxes can be the delinquent collector's salary. There are financially capable people in town who repeatedly pay late and say they're making sure the delinquent collector eats and can put his kids (now in their 30's and 40's) through college. We all have a good laugh.


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## rambler (Jan 20, 2004)

Staying relatively safe from an airborne repratory illness is all about weighing risks.

low population low density areas have less risk.

keeping your distance from others 6 feet is one claimed distance, 6 miles is probably much safer. Less than 2 feet is probably much more risky. Total isolation is least risk.

Keeping clean and using sanitizers that kill viruses makes less risk.

but all of those things have their own risks, in other ways. 

We can’t all move to a low density home, many are stuck living in a high density city apartment.

we are families and workers and care givers and an interactive society of beings. We can’t all not be around anyone? Mental health issues and all show up with isolation.

sanitizers are chemicals, slathering them on everything always has its own bad effects over time.

and on and on. We are assessing risks here.

no one enforces the 6 foot rule. People space out more, but everyone walks by a lot closer, reaches something quick off the shelf, passes in the isle closer than 6 feet. We are mostly trying and mostly spaced out farther, but we are not always 6 feet apart. You see that done also by every single politician that has put in the mandates, they forget or don’t care about their own rules and walk right up to others.

families still get together, neighbors still get together, people still work, we are still a mobile population. We travel less, we are a bit more careful, but even every single politician that has put in the mandates has then traveled, had family or friends that gathered, and so forth.

So, masks are also somewhere in the risk assessment of this.

many people feel the other things are much more important. None of the masks people wear stop any virus. What they do is slow down and trap some globs of spit and keep those globs on the mask. In a clinical testing this does slow down the amount of virus traveling 6 feet out.

in the real world, it creates a false sense of safety masks do not stop the virus. In the real world, sloppy wet masks with virus trapped on them are now being touched and handled byfolk who then handle the things you are going to touch. Is this really a lower risk for all?

in the real world, masks create some breathing and repertory issues for some people. That is a risk.

and on and on and on.

I don’t understand why people are so instant on wearing masks. It is pretty clear they are a very small benefit And only in certain situations.

If you are concerned about other people wearing a mask, you need to be more concerned about your own risk assessment. Are you keeping your safe distance, are you keeping your hands washed, are you keeping yourself in a low risk situation?

demanding others wear masks and then ignoring all other safety precautions is the height of hypocrisy.

and that is what I see more than anything.

people who don’t want to wear masks for the most part have done their risk assessment, and conclude their health and the health of those around them are better served by other means - distance, cleanliness, etc.

these is certainly middle ground on this, as so many of us practice.

standing in a crowded area and berating someone for not wearing a mask is pretty silly.

learn to assess and deal with risks more responsibly than that!

Paul


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## Alice In TX/MO (May 10, 2002)

Excellent post.


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## Redlands Okie (Nov 28, 2017)

Good points rambler


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## Danaus29 (Sep 12, 2005)

Many of us wear masks only because local authorities have decided they are required. 

My son's roomate brought home a nasty virus before Christmas. Person came in to work sick. Despite all precautions the bug was passed all over the place. The roommate did the responsible thing and stayed home while sick.


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## NEPA (Feb 21, 2015)

We're still discussing masks, but now that the vaccine is being distributed we're moving into a new phase of government mandates. Here in PA the governor has announced that state employees must receive the vaccine if they want to receive a paycheck. Shouldn't this be an individual decision?


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## Redlands Okie (Nov 28, 2017)

One would think so


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## Wolf mom (Mar 8, 2005)

NEPA said:


> We're still discussing masks, but now that the vaccine is being distributed we're moving into a new phase of government mandates. Here in PA the governor has announced that state employees must receive the vaccine if they want to receive a paycheck. Shouldn't this be an individual decision?


This is the same as children being required to be vaccinated before starting school.


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## Alice In TX/MO (May 10, 2002)

No, it isn't. Childhood vaccines were tested over long periods of time.


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