# GCP , what is your opinion of this 12 gauge load ?



## Shrek (May 1, 2002)

Posted 1/23/21 11:51 PM CST

I was reading about Federal Force X 2 2 3/4 inch 12 gauge shells that has 9 segmented pellet that look sort of like split crimped fishing sinkers.

From what I read, the shot is smaller than the 00 buck I load behind the bird shot loads I use for initial close quarter in room defense to prevent possible wall penetration per the old Ayoob "an ounce and half of birdshot at close range is a good meat grinder and over spread peppers drywall" advice before the 00 might be needed for further distance target penetration .

Do you think they might be a viable alternative to classic 00 over a 20 foot distance if needed and would they be worth the higher cost?


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## JJ Grandits (Nov 10, 2002)

Sounds like a waste to me.
With a cylinder bore a standard trap load doesn't even leave the wad at 20' .

from my model 37 with a 20" barrel.
My shockwave wIth a trap load will give a 12" pattern at 20' but that is a cylinder bore and a 14" barrel.
Basically at 20' anything coming out of a shotgun is going to make one huge frigging mess.
I use to go to my club and set up a couple of 4'x4' pieces of 1/2" plywood and than backup 20'-25' and hit it with various loads. Basically I would get a hole about a inch and a half going through both sheets
A good pheasant or turkey load would be a nightmare.


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## Fishindude (May 19, 2015)

I'm sure that stuff is wicked.
Buy a box and shoot it at something to see how it performs.


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## GREENCOUNTYPETE (Jul 25, 2006)

you know the best advancement to a HD shotgun would be a screw in choke tube so you could pattern and decide what is right for you. a light is also very good and should be first.

the longest strait line distance in my house is 30 feet more realistic is 25 feet and under.

could this be the new great thing? sure it could be. the issue if that it is also a premium price
people get convinced all the time of some "hyper" ammo or special ammo and it turns into , Gollum from lord of the rings my precious precious ammo I will never shoot thee.

the same thing happens in hollow points , no doubt federal HST is great ammo but if you shoot fmj 115gr all the time and have that one magazine loaded with your Precious ammo you never shoot , you don't know where it hits , or how well it feeds in your gun. how much better off would you have been with plain old hollow points from Winchester or Remington or one of several others. it is very important to test your carry ammo , how where it hits , that it feeds , if you can find a animal that need shooting any way how it performs , I found some 147gr Ranger-T LE ammo , might as well be FMJ from a short barrel it was in one side and out the other completely un-expanded in a raccoon.


#4 buck is both inexpensive , available (was till this ammo shortage) well tested by police departments.and has 21-27 pellets
also was 00 really not working.

I think it is more marketing than any sort of real need.

I can only think of a few shootings with shotguns I have heard of in the news.
one was just down the road from my inlaws , they said the distance was close in a hallway in the home and it was bird shot to the center of the chest , intruder dead.

we loose a couple bird hunters each year in WI to being shot by their dogs loaded water fowl round less than the distance of the boat. up close while the round is traveling as a single mass shotguns are devastating.

for now I put this in the gimmick and marketing column.


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## JJ Grandits (Nov 10, 2002)

Have you ever been to a gun show and seen the "specialty" shotgun ammo?
Little flachets, ball and chain, cubes, metal rods, stuff that will burst into flames. All sorts of weird stuff that is supposed to be the ultimate in protection. What they all have in common is the $2-3 cost per shot.
Buddy of mine was a former sniper and prison guard.
He turned me onto #4 buckshot.
This impressed the hell out of me.
He referred to it as " total destruction ".


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## GREENCOUNTYPETE (Jul 25, 2006)

there is a guy on youtube out in cali tom fladrermouse I probably butchered the spelling , people send him all sorts of things to test he shoots gel and car parts and all manner of stuff most importantly he has a very high speed camera to catch all the action and see exactly what is happening 

probably 3/4 or more of what they shoot doesn't stabilize and tumbles some does but only very conditionally and not with every round

a few shot gun truths if it patters well at distance it will be tight at shorter range 

you still need to aim with a shotgun at across the room distances 10-30 feet a pattern size of between the size of your fist and spread hand are possible. hence you need to aim to put that on the target 
if it is accurate at 50 yards for a slug it will be as accurate or more so at 25 or less

here are some of my patterns 32 feet because I have markings at my range for 10 meters for air gun competition which is 32 feet and about as long a shot as could possibly happen in my house.


















suprema is a low cost but ok buck shot as you can see 

suprema hasn't been available lately but was about 10-11 dollars a box of 25 at walmart for several years I could afford to practice with it and keep some on hand other buck is a dollar a round or more 


here is a video comparing some lower recoil #4 buck shot if you want to skip ahead to the meat target 10:45 is where those start 
he explains from his gun he can tell the recoil is less but not enough less in his opinion that if a person having significant recoil issues with the normal 2 3/4 buck rounds would suddenly be all better.
get what you can test it and I don't think gimmicks are nessicary


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## Shrek (May 1, 2002)

Posted 1/25/21 4:14 PM CST

I was thinking it was more marketing hype also and even before decades ago reading Massad Ayoob's explanation of using bird shot as the magazine leader for short distance lethality and reduced wall penetration,, the old folks often lead off with #4 buck with 00 behind it.

My local gun shop is selling 10 rounds of the X2 for around $30 while normal buck shot and bird shot are still under a dollar a shell.

With my shotguns loaded for defense, on silhouettes at 20 feet or so all loads punch a central mass hit of fist sized and at 40 feet the buck shot loads still pattern out about a foot and a half across center mass.

The patterning , lower costs and reduced over range risks of stray shot and your opinions is reinforcing my confidence in the decades old progressiveness of loads in the magazine and patterning that I have been taught.


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## Rodeo's Bud (Apr 10, 2020)

I think in a normal world even birdshot is going to do the trick at most in home or on the porch scenerios. Especially to the face.


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## GREENCOUNTYPETE (Jul 25, 2006)

I found my new favorite buck shot 










this was a 10 yard group from the same 870P as the post on the grocery bag in the post above 

and at 25 yards 









I took it back to 50 yards every target had at least 1 pellet within an inch and a half of the point of aim
most of them at 50 yards I hit the tape with 1-2 pellets and had at least 4 in a foot 

than suprema stuff at 50 yards I was lucky to have 1 on the hole target

now to find more of this stuff

yes basically anything will work at 10 yards 

this was all with an improved cylinder


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