# Lot line adjustment



## ladytoysdream (Dec 13, 2008)

If I don't explain this correctly please ask questions.

We own 2 acres where we live. It's a triangle shaped lot.
The one side borders a old pasture.
The other side is all road frontage.
The long line borders a creek.

We may have opportunity finally to purchase a small section next to us
out of the old pasture. A farmer had the farm for a long time. He sold the
house, barn and about 30 acres to the current neighbor. Rest of the farm
got sold to a big farmer.

We want to buy a small section so we could control the water running out of
a natural spring there. It tears up our driveway and now my garden area when
it rains hard. Everything slopes downhill to the creek area.
In the winter, we have like 6 inches of ice in front of our garage in a good size area.

So it might now be possible to get not quite a acre from the neighbor.
Road frontage would be about 70 feet and then just over 480 feet deep
So it would be a long rectangle piece legally attached to our current line.
So I called the zoning officer and he thinks he can do a LOT LINE ADJUSTMENT.
I had no clue this could be done. So we need copies of the 2 surveys.
And a application to the town. It has to go in front of a planning board. If all
goes well it should be approved.
I would have to have the paperwork recorded at the county clerk. So it was suggested
to get a lawyer and I asked why. I can take the paperwork to the clerk myself.

Has anyone else ever done this procedure ?
I am trying to ask questions before we get into this possible transaction.

Town clerk did ask if this was for a house to be built and I said no buildings.
It will be a buffer zone to protect us.


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## Alice In TX/MO (May 10, 2002)

My question is that if you do a lot line adjustment, will you get a dead?


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## ladytoysdream (Dec 13, 2008)

I don't know how that works for sure.
I am just starting this process. Never knew it existed.
Thought we would need a new survey to amend things.
So if this works, it will be a lot quicker and easier.
Less paperwork .

We have our deed for our current 2 acres.
It will just be a adjustment to the size of our lot, I am thinking.


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## Alice In TX/MO (May 10, 2002)

I am skeptical.


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## Darren (May 10, 2002)

ladytoysdream said:


> I don't know how that works for sure.
> I am just starting this process. Never knew it existed.
> Thought we would need a new survey to amend things.
> So if this works, it will be a lot quicker and easier.
> ...


You need a survey of the property you are buying. The planning people can adjust the parcel map to reflect that a new parcel has been created from the larger parcel. 

To prevent problems in the future record the surveyed parcel at the court house.


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## Metalhead Homestead (May 7, 2020)

It makes sense that if approved they would simply adjust the legal description of the two properties. I've never seen this done, but I don't see how a lawyer could help any. A title agency perhaps, but not a lawyer.


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

Alice In TX/MO said:


> will you get a *dead*?


A deed.
Let's not kill anyone. 

I'd be asking a lawyer.

It's possible it could be done without a new survey as long as the two you have aren't too old, but I think a lawyer will be needed to write two new deeds to show title to the properties with the revised boundaries.


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## ladytoysdream (Dec 13, 2008)

I did a google search for lot line adjustment before I posted this thread. It is a legal process.
Our zoning officer made it sound simple. Something that he used to be able to do himself.
He asked the town lawyer after I made the call to him with my question, and called me back.
He says now the application is made to the town and goes in front of a planning board at their next meeting.
I have to have a drawing of what we want to do. And copies of both surveys.

The neighbor bought their property 6 years ago. They had it surveyed. The survey was done using our
survey stake as the known start point. The other known survey stake was at the other neighbors in his driveway,
so our middle neighbor was able to use that one. These lines were used to calculate the acreage on our side of the
road so the middle neighbor knew how much they were buying from the farmer.
There is 3 houses on this road in a mile stretch on the asphalt road section.

First we have to get the okay from the neighbor that we can do this. Then do paperwork from the town.
If things start to get complicated, I would call a lawyer. Hopefully We don't have to hire one.
With this virus problem going on now, it makes something like this more interesting. 
We were hoping to get 1, maybe 2 acres, give or take.
Neighbor wants to use the electric pole as the new corner. Which is about 65 - 70 feet from our existing
stake. Go straight back 479 feet. New property line will be straight. So acreage would be under 1 acre.

Our property had the legal survey done 30 years ago. A search was done and we have the abstract.
And we have the deed. All been recorded yes.
We need this strip of land to be able to work it to protect us from that natural spring. Husband wanted
to rent a piece of equipment to do the digging. He keeps saying diversion ditch. I suggested we buy the
strip first, so if something goes wrong with his diversion ditch idea, it won't be money wasted. We can try
again with a different idea if his first idea don't work.
We been putting up with this spring for 30 years now. I don't want another band aid fix. I want a more
permanent fix. I will try to get a few pictures later today. What's that saying ? A picture is worth a
thousand words


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## Micheal (Jan 28, 2009)

I would think that you asking questions and not knowing is reason enough to hire a lawyer.....


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## ladytoysdream (Dec 13, 2008)

If we hire a lawyer, that would be minimum of $ 1000 , paid first before we even start.
That money is needed to do this transaction.
I plan on doing this with what cash we have. Not borrowing to get this done.

Actually we have a lawyer that is doing some paperwork for my husband's dad.
Hubby is POA for dad. I been doing a LOT of searches etc for information to
help his Dad out. This lawyer is REALLY good. But too busy and does not get
things done in a timely manner. Takes forever and a day to return a call.
We can't afford to make our project a lengthy process. Need to done soon, not later.

If anybody needs a lawyer, it would be the neighbors. They be giving up some
land, not us.


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

ladytoysdream said:


> If anybody needs a lawyer, it would be the neighbors. They be giving up some
> land, not us.


If it's not done properly, they won't be giving you anything.
It's already theirs.
The lawyer is for your protection.


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## Alice In TX/MO (May 10, 2002)

Talk to a title company. I have used title companies for several real estate transactions. 

Here is where I am direct and honest. You are trying to do something on the cheap. I understand. However, it may not be in YOUR best interests in the future to do this now.


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## Fishindude (May 19, 2015)

Looks like a good surveyor could take care of this, then your local title company could record the transaction and record things for the county records. We've bought several adjoining parcels to our place and all still show up on the county records as individual parcels, rather than enlarging an existing property.


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## ladytoysdream (Dec 13, 2008)

Okay. I just talked to the man who did our survey 30 years ago.
It appears I don't need another survey as long as our zoning officer
gave me the correct information. If I do, it will cost like $ 600 .
Neighbor and us have to reach a agreement where the new property line should be.
Go to town with paperwork.
And I can file with the county clerk myself.
Probably won't need a lawyer either.
Unless neighbor has different ideas.

This process is quite common I was just told by the surveyor .


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## Michael W. Smith (Jun 2, 2002)

You don't want to do this the cheap way - you want to do it the CORRECT way - and so there is no problem in the future!!!

If you get the surveyor that did your neighbor's land - they already have all the information. It's a matter of them coming out - you and the neighbor showing the surveyor what you are buying - and what the neighbor is selling. It's a simple matter of them measuring, determining exactly how much property you are purchasing - and writing up the deed information and showing this on the survey.

A lawyer should be able to do this for less than $200.00. You show the lawyer what you are purchasing (along with the deed information and survey). They will probably have to get a new parcel from the courthouse, write up a new deed and survey - and you and the neighbor have your agreement.

My Father-in-Law had bought about an acre off an adjoining property to even up his property lines. He had a surveyor come out, do the measurements, new deed description and new survey showing the additional acre. Father-in-Law took it to a lawyer, got the paperwork done, and it was recorded.

About two years ago, a new owner of the neighboring property showed up. The original owner had died, it got tangled up into an estate with about 8 people, and then sold to the this new guy. He had found the property lines and was saying they were wrong - he owned that land. I told him my Father-in-Law had purchased this additional acre and had set the new property line with a surveyor. I sent him the information - and he was mad as a hornet.

The 8 or so estate people either didn't know my Father-in-Law had bought it or had forgot about it. So the new owner wanted to do it the cheap way - he didn't have a deed search done - and they just had the lawyer use the original deed language from when the original owner had it. Well - there was the acre taken off of it. He thought he was buying 20 acres - and only got 19 acres.

He was mad and was going to take this to his attorney. Well guess what? The attorney told him he was out of luck. With no deed search and just using the original deed language - he was just out of luck. The acre was deeded and a new survey done - and recorded. If he would have just paid for the deed search before purchasing it - he would have found this out - and he could have told the new owners there was only 19 acres - instead of 20. They might have reduced the price.

Like I said, you want to do this CORRECT and LEGAL so they are NO questions in the future!!!


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## Wolf mom (Mar 8, 2005)

ladytoysdream - if you've been following HT since 2008, you know every so often there's a rash of people crying real estate blues mainly due to to boundary/fence/deed issues.

Do what Michael W. Smith says - do it correctly with no short cuts so you don't get into a legal battle later.

Someone took a short cut when buying my neighbor's property and never knew I had a legal, DEEDED right of way through their property. I ended up with $10,000 to the better due to someone's sloppiness.


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## ladytoysdream (Dec 13, 2008)

We plan on doing this the correct way and the legal way.
I don't know why the word cheap keeps coming into the conversation.

We have not got the go ahead from the neighbor yet. I will call them later today
if I don't hear anything.
The surveyor said in the phone call, I don't need him. The same man who did the survey
here back in 1987 and who has been in business since 1965. The newer survey person who did
the neighbors acreage, did not stake it for them. And was very rude to us when we questioned
him why he was on our land and digging around our stake. No hello , and no introduction, just
proceeded to trespass and do his thing, his way. I sure don't want to ask him to help us.

The town zoning officer said it is a line change. Done at their meeting. Cost about $ 150.
Then we get some paperwork and I take it to the county clerk and get it recorded and pay
whatever the recording fee is. 
We still have to find out what the neighbor wants for money for this small parcel.
We are not going to borrow money to do this.

I see no need to give a lawyer $1000 and a new survey of $ 600 when it is not necessary.
The lawyer will be turtle slow. We don't want to wait a year to get this done.

I have a 2 year degree that just happens to have 2 semesters of surveying.
I am not up to speed on some of the new techniques, but I can figure out what we need done.

I was told a lot line adjustment is COMMON. I just never heard of it before.
And was wondering if anyone here ever had it done.


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## Alice In TX/MO (May 10, 2002)

Okey Dokey. Here is the explanation. 

Many of us have experience in real estate. Apparently the method you plan on using is not common in most of our locations. 

You keep mentioning NOT spending money on the lawyer, which causes RED FLAGS of concern to start waving frantically in our brains. Thus, the word “cheap.” I could say foolishly frugal, if that is less troublesome. 

I have not used a lawyer for every real estate transaction, but I have used a title company AND purchased title insurance EVERY time. There are MANY tales of land deals that turned into legal nightmares because one of the parties said, “It’s ok. We will just do it this way instead of paying a lawyer or title company.”

You asked for validation of what you want to do. Apparently, the experienced folks are concerned for you and the validity of the process. 

So, there it is. Plain talk.


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## Danaus29 (Sep 12, 2005)

I've purchased land without a paid title search. We did the title research ourselves and took copies of the past titles to an attorney. But now with most past transactions available on-line, a title search is not as difficult as it once was.

I wonder if the town wants to do an adjustment to avoid creating a new parcel. It's apparently a big headache to create new parcels. Not a problem to join parcels, in my experience. We just signed a paper at the courthouse stating the properties were joined.

As much as you want to avoid spending extra money to get this done, it is one of those issues where the extra spent might be worthwhile. Later land line issues, especially after you have made changes or built something on the property, are something worth avoiding. Who knows, you may get a lawyer that will tell you how to file it yourself for a reasonable price.

Check around with attorneys. I know one that charges $2000.00 for a title search. The one we ended up using told us how to do a search then completed the sale and filed the paperwork for less than $500.00.

Our sale was complete and recorded within 2 weeks.


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## crehberg (Mar 16, 2008)

ladytoysdream said:


> We plan on doing this the correct way and the legal way.
> I don't know why the word cheap keeps coming into the conversation.
> 
> We have not got the go ahead from the neighbor yet. I will call them later today
> ...


Yes, I have had it done. It is not necessarily common throughout the country but it is in certain areas. 

I went through the lot line adjustment in 2016 when I needed to get new road frontage because of changes in our local zoning rules.

As long as you're satisfied, I wouldn't concern myself too much. Yes, it may not be as "formal" as a new survey and deeding...but things are definitely changing when it comes to how counties handle property changes.


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## ladytoysdream (Dec 13, 2008)

Danaus29 said:


> I wonder if the town wants to do an adjustment to avoid creating a new parcel. It's apparently a big headache to create new parcels. Not a problem to join parcels, in my experience. We just signed a paper at the courthouse stating the properties were joined.


YES. Here it is called a sub division and it is a royal PITA to get these done.

The town clerk told me about this line adjustment. And then told me to call the zoning
officer. And they both agreed with what I said, that this is what we need to do.
It sounds easy. Hopefully it is. But time will tell.


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## ladytoysdream (Dec 13, 2008)

crehberg said:


> Yes, I have had it done. It is not necessarily common throughout the country but it is in certain areas/
> As long as you're satisfied, I wouldn't concern myself too much. Yes, it may not be as "formal" as a new survey and deeding...but things are definitely changing when it comes to how counties handle property changes.


Thank you.
It is a changing world.
We don't need a new survey. The old one is just fine


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## Michael W. Smith (Jun 2, 2002)

I have heard when two owners can't agree on property lines - and neither wants to pay a surveyor on doing it, they agree where the new line is - and have paperwork done. 

No one that I know has ever done it, and I've never heard of it being done in my area.

However, if it's not done right, legal, and recorded - it's going to be someone's problem in the future. It might not be yours, it might not be the people who end up with the property after you, but sooner or later - it will come up. No one will remember why this was done. You won't be around to ask, and your neighbor won't be around to ask.

And maybe it is legal. But I'm not quite sure how you can both have surveyed parcels, and just change the property line. That is going to throw all the recorded survey's - and previous deed's out of whack - and nothing is going to make sense.

I would rather pay a surveyor (and one that already has the information it won't take them long) - to come out and meet with you and the neighbor. Plot out the acreage to be bought - and go through the regular course of action - where you get a deed. (And if what you say is correct - that the surveyor already has the information - they would be able to do a whole new survey for you - with correct deed directions and measurements fairly cheap. Once it's recorded - you will own it - no questions asked, and it will hold up in court. You will have a deed, you will have a survey.

I'm not so sure your "property line adjustment" will hold up in court. Your "zoning board" has nothing to gain or lose - so they don't care. Your neighbor won't actually "sell" the property if it isn't done correctly - so will get your money for nothing. You are the one with the most to lose if it's not done legally.

I'd rather you end up actually owning the property - rather than "Well, I thought I owned it. I was told if I did this, and this, and this, I would own it." 

Most lawyers will do a consult for free. They should at least be able to tell you if this is a good idea. (Unless you are just under the impression they just want another job to line their own pocket, and it's not really needed.) 

You can do it your way and "think" it was done correctly.


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## Alice In TX/MO (May 10, 2002)

This was an old post.


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## SpentPenny (Jun 11, 2020)

Your laws may be different, but where I am it would matter if the "lot" was legally platted or not. In KS not all land is platted into lots. In fact very little is platted other than what is in a city or town. But when a sale like yours takes place in unplatted land you just own two adjacent parcels and there is no need to combine them into one. For that matter if you live on a platted lot then all you need to do is to have the piece of pasture you purchase be platted into another lot and you just own two adjacent lots. Don't make it harder than it has to be.


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