# Heifer bred to early, still born bull calf.



## Faith Farm (Dec 13, 2004)

This afternoon we found one of our young 20 month old Angus heifers 
in labor down in a wooded area. She was in a seperate paddock 
with 6 other young heifers we were going to breed next spring. Her calf was 
nose and one foot out but dead. We believe she was in labor since
last night. Yesterday we were haying a field down the road till dark
and totally exhausted. We didn't check that group of heifers.
I mentioned in an earlier thread 2 other heifers from that group
birthed a healthy calf each with no problem. A bull had broke through
a fence last year and serviced the ladies. We did not want this to 
happen but a moments mistake can be costly. The story doesn't end there. The MAMA was so exhausted three of us had to pull the calf out. It took over an hour of pulling, relaxing the cow, waiting for her pushing and finally
we used a jeep to pull it out. Her pelvis was so tight we couldn't reach
the rear legs of the calf. We gave her some water, hay and some grain for the
night but we are concerned. For several hours she couldn't stand. Her rear legs were unresponsive every time she tried to stand. Once we thought she died when she was streached out and eyes were white. I rotated her 180 
degrees to stimulate her. It worked, she sat up, took water and hay. when 
the other heifers came over the eat her hay, she stood up on all fours. we seperated all other heifers to another paddock for the night to rest her.
She was laying down again when we turned in for the night but I believe
she will be alright. My friend and I prayed over her earlier resulting in a 
wonderful answer. Keep this young heifer in your prayers. Thank you.


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## momanto (Jan 14, 2005)

Prayers Sent. I Have Two More To Go - One Is A First Time Heifer, Other Is An Older Cow Both Due Soon.....i Will Be So Thankful When They Deliver As These Two Are At A Remote Pasture. Wish Next Year...could Have Them All Up To The House For Birthdays.

Mom


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## Christina R. (Apr 22, 2004)

How is she this morning? I'm grateful for the way God has already been there for you and this gal. We are a fortunate people to have a Lord who cares so much for the things that are dear to our hearts.


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## JeffNY (Dec 13, 2004)

It wasn't the prayers that helped, it was your reaction to moving her, getting her off that nerve that she had pinched being down. We had a heifer, calved @ 14 months, she was on her side for a while. Calf made it, she did too. But she wouldn't get up, so we tried to get her up on her side, no go. Vet came, gave her a shot of adrenaline I beleive, and gave her a couple of zaps. She got up, he held her tail to steady her. Any cow that lays on their side for too long, pinches a nerve running down their backside. There is also another nerve in the pelvis during calving, that controls the leg. Some calves are big, and pinches that nerve. We have a holstein that did this, and she is still recovering, and it can take in her case, from 6 weeks to 3 months. She can walk on it fine, no limping. But as the nerve comes back, I am sure it tingles, so at times she rests it.



So pat yourself on the back for saving her, by moving her. It was your work that saved her..


Jeff


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## john in la (Jul 15, 2005)

How sad.
I will say a prayer for her.

A 20 month old (while a little young) should be able to have a calf. You even say that you have had 2 of this age calve already with no problems.
You were just unfortunate enough to have a anterior presentation with one leg bent at the knee. This is something that even the best of cows full grown would have problems with.

Please forgive me because I do not want to sound like I am raging on you but want to take advantage of this situation to explain how to deal with it so others may learn.

In this type of birth you should not pull on the calf. You need to push. You need to try and push the calf back in far enough so you can allow room to pull the other foot around. Be careful and if possible put the calves foot in the palm of your hand as you bend it around. This prevents the sharp point of the hoof from tearing the canal lining as you flip it around.

Pulling with a jeep or tractor should not be a option. Since the calf was dead you would do better cutting the leg off and pulling the calf out in pieces. When pulling a calf you need to remember to pull DOWN toward the cows feet and not straight out. There is a nerve that runs through the cows pelvis just pass the birthing canal. It is the nerve that allows the cow to stand and can be easily damaged.
Hopefully your cow is standing this morning. Sounds like she is OK just tired since she stood for a while last night. If she is not standing today call a vet.


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## JeffNY (Dec 13, 2004)

As john said, pulling with a jeep is not a good idea. There is an artery that runs on the base of the pelvis, you could have ruptured that by pulling. Luckily you did not rupture it. If you did, they die very quickly, and there is NO way to stop the bleeding.



Jeff


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## Ken Scharabok (May 11, 2002)

When a bull comes visiting young heifers it is likely better to give all of them an abortion shot. You can get the abortion medium (whatever) from your vet. Believe it is 5 cc per heifer. Your vet can advise on when (how long after service) to administer it. Will have NO effect on any unbred heifers. Calf would be so small it would likely be absorbed rather than ejected. Has been several years since I needed it, but believe it was about $5.00 per shot. This is one you can administer yourself.

While you did have two birth at a very young age OK, consider yourself lucky. Also be aware those two are unlikely to reach their full potential as a mature cow than one birthing at say 30 or 36 months.

Old rule of thumb is a heifer bred to calve as two years old will have one more calf in an average lifetime than one bred to calve as a three year old. However, the latter will likely weigh about 100 pounds more and be a 'better doing' cow all of her life.

Normally I don't breed a heifer until they are a good two years old. Really depends on the heifer though. Have had some which went 700-800 pound at a year of age, which is a good enough size for them to continue to grow out and birth near two years of age.

That said, did so with the two heifers I kept out of the calf crop last year. Smaller of them birthed fine. Larger one I had to pull the calf via a come-a-long in the chute. BIG calf. Normally once you get the shoulders out the calves drops out on its own. This one I had to pull the hips out also. Mom and calf are doing fine. But, will still keep an eye on this one when she calves next year. Interestingly I had to pull the first calf out of her mother also.


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## wr (Aug 10, 2003)

I agree with Ken, the shot is a simple deal and saves the lives and productivity of your heifers. There's a lot of money and time invested in replacement heifers and to loose one to something this way is a sad waste. A hard pull can also result in a female that will not stay in calf in the future or a lost year while her reproductive system heals. In the case of a pen of heifers, the shot (which is a hormone) will only result in bringing your pen of females into heat sync. It's the same product used when you wish to AI a group of of cows and far safer than the alternative. It strikes me as sad that a vet will sure come out to clean up the mess at the end but many vets will fail to tell people that there's a product available.

The calf was likely hip locked and a quick manual twist will usually solve the problem rather than a hard pull, for future reference.


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## Turkeyfether (Dec 10, 2004)

James Herriot's books ("All Things Bright & Beautiful",etc.,etc.") deal with so many diverse experiences he had as a vet ,such as the one you mentioned. He also explains his rational for why he dealt with such situations in the way he did.Wonderful reading!! Every chapter is HILARIOUS ....I laugh out loud constantly in his books. I rarely have time to sit & read for long, but leave these books in the bathroom & read 1 chapter at a time.

:angel: "GREAT is the LORD,and greatly to be praised!" :angel: 

"The fool saith in his heart 'there is no God'."

One day F. Nietzche said "God is dead". Now God says.."Nietzche's dead".


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## john in la (Jul 15, 2005)

After reading the other post; I have to agree with Ken also.

The dairy in me lets a heifer 20 months old bypass my radar; when in truth a grass fed beef cow would be a lot smaller at 20 months.

A good estrous synchronization drug at the time the bull broke through the fence would have aborted any concived heifers.


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## JeffNY (Dec 13, 2004)

Lutalyce...


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## Faith Farm (Dec 13, 2004)

Thank you all for the sound advice. This morning she walked to her
favorite shade tree area where she rested through the heat of the day. 
I gave her a bucket of water and two pounds of sugar. So far so good.
The advice given I appreciate from each one of you. I knew when I
told my story My mistakes were open for discussion but better for myself
and others to learn from folks who have been there. 
The abortion shot did not occure to me @ the time because the bull was
exposed for a very short time. The young heifers did not show any signs
up until the last three weeks and this last one did not show @ all. The friend
who found her has a few of his heifers there didn't notice. He has raised beef
over 50 years. 
While we were trying to get this calf out we did rotate it and we did pull down
ward. The jeep pull was our last resort as we were exhausted. A push back in
might have worked but we did what we did as carefully as possible. I believe 
her pelvis tightened up so much from the long labor and the size of the calf,
about 75 lbs worth, was just to much for her. She weighs only 750 lbs. 
These threads will go into my how to avoid, do better and holy cow file.
By the way, the answered prayer was God's way of showing me He always
hears me, is always near me and willing to help me in times of distress because
he loves me and my young heifer. Thank you again for your concern.

Paul


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## Turkeyfether (Dec 10, 2004)

:angel: Amen! :angel:


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## Jena (Aug 13, 2003)

If you've had three of those heifers calve, I'd assume the others were bred as well. Probably ought to keep a close eye on them to avoid a repeat.

Jena


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## Faith Farm (Dec 13, 2004)

We are checking them every day anyway but with a closer eye
these dAYS. So far no signs of pregnancy. The MAMA cow is 
walking the field now which is a great relief to us all. Thanks.


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## JeffNY (Dec 13, 2004)

One way to be sure, have the preg checked if possible. What it costs to have a vet come in, and do that, could give you a heads up to watch the others. The heifer we had that was bred early (bull was in the pasture with her, was our mistake), and calved @ 14 months was fat. It was denial with us, was naaaaa can't be. Well sure enough, her getting fatter, and her vulva getting puffy wasn't just fat. This was many years ago. All of my dairy animals I preg check 42-45 days after ai, unless they come into heat before. I do this to make sure, and not wing it.



Jeff


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## KSALguy (Feb 14, 2006)

when we first got a pair of cows that had heffer calfs at their side a farmer friend of ours let us run them with his herd and bull to breed the cows back, when he pulled the whole herd off the pasture for rotation and to move the bull, all the calfs got their meds and shots and any heffers got an automattic shot to make them abort any fetus the may be carying, then they went to the weaning pens. no worry of young heffers haveing calvs too early, i was very glad we had a friend who was there to help us take care of stuff like that, he did all that in return for us letting him use our electricity to charge his fence in the pasture right next to our property


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## Patt (May 18, 2003)

Paul I'm also praising God with you that the life of yor heifer was saved!


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## Faith Farm (Dec 13, 2004)

Great suggestions to apply. I just recently bought a small herd of 28 head 
from a fellow retiring from farming and renting his 128 acre farm. He has his 
registered Angus bull running 365 with the herd with 6 heifer calfs all
under 9 months old mixed in. I hope to move the 6 young heifers over to my 
fields next week and give them all a shot of Lutalyce just incase. No more repeats of dead calf on arrival also a preg test will help. 
BTW, we are bringing up the new bull to service about 7 third time cows and 
8 two year old heifers of 850 + lbs. All young stuff are three fields and a road
away. I may move them another two fields more to be safer.


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## Goat Freak (Jul 6, 2005)

I'm glad to hear that your heifer is doing better. My grandparents had two heifer calves calf at about a year old, maybe a little older. Now here's the sad thing, they gave birth a year apart, they had already made the mistake once, so they went ahead and made it again, and now they are going to do it again as soon as they let their isolated heifer calf out with the herd, and the bull, which will be as soon as she will be weaned, which should be in about a month or so. Good Luck with your heifer, I will be praying for her. Good Luck. Bye.


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## Faith Farm (Dec 13, 2004)

This morning the young cow was turned in with the other heifers
after much mooing all night. She is doing fabulously and I am soooo
thankful. Thank you LORD.
The next several weeks I'll be setting up rotational paddocks on a
128 acre farm I am leasing. We plan to MIG (manage intensive grazing)
on the 100 acres of pasture. We will leave the bull with a group of
15 older cows but remove all the weined heifer calfs to my fields here.
I will need to stock these fields with more cattle from other folks. Charge
customer per poundage gained or just a straight fee. I am not sure which 
way to go with that but seperating types of cattle will be a challange.


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