# wanting a deer rifle...need advice



## anniew (Dec 12, 2002)

I'm looking to get a low priced deer rifle. The local sporting goods store suggested a Savage for about $300. The stock is plastic, not wood. 
A scope needs to be on it, because there are no "sites" on the rifle. The person I talked with said that they are getting a shipment that includes one that the scope is factory installed, rather than adding it after the fact. That would cost somewhere around $350 for the rifle and the scope. 
It uses 243 ammo.
Is that a good deal for a newbie to deer hunting? What should I ask or know before deciding?
TIA


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## GTX63 (Dec 13, 2016)

Savage makes a good bread and butter rifle.
I have a Savage model 110 (or 111) with the accutrigger. It is very accurate and will kill about anything in North America.
My brother in law uses a 243 Savage for Coyotes and it is very effective.
There are certain rifles I want a wood stock and others I prefer the plastic.
I'd ask what the model number was that you were looking at but the price you stated sounds about right.


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

Are there any pawn shops in your area?
Often you can get better deals on used rifles already set up with scopes and mounts.
You need a rifle that fits your body as well as your budget.
Unfortunately, this is the worst time of the year to buy used guns.
They tend to be cheaper in Summer.


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## AmericanStand (Jul 29, 2014)

Like barefoot I was going to recommend a pawnshop rifle a used weapon can be quite a bit less expensive but honestly at 350 for a rifle with a scope on it brand spanking new with warranty and gun store expertise I think it would be worth it for a newbie.


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## GREENCOUNTYPETE (Jul 25, 2006)

well I picked up a new one Wednesday I will make a separate thread about it , Mossberg Patriot Predator.

here is my warning on scoped combo guns , they have found all new lows for price and quality for glass lately.

at deer rifle sight in a few weeks back 2 Remington 783 with Horrible nameless scopes mounted way to far back , with awful eye relief. both owners had recently purchased or won them.

the savage axis II is actually a good shooter , all the bolt action guns under 425 are going to be plastic stocked.

what you have used in the past. 

grab a yard stick , bend your trigger arm at the elbow place the end of the yard stick into the bend in your arm and between your index and middle finger , curling your hand like your holing a soda can. how many inches from the bend in your arm to the pad of your index finger. this is a fit question , should we be recommending a youth rifle or not.

when you pick up a gun at the store put the but stock in the fold of your arm and index finger on the trigger is it comfortable to place the center of the pad of your index finger on the trigger or are you reaching to get to it.


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## GREENCOUNTYPETE (Jul 25, 2006)

think about what you want and spend the extra money to get what you want.

if wood is important to you it will cost you a bit more , btu what costs a lot more is buying a rifle you don't like and buying another one later.

good names in scope are Leopold, Nikon, vortex , do they some times break , yes , but they all have excellent warranties and models starting around $150. sometimes better on sale.

it is important to ask yourself what range you will be shooting if you never see deer past 25 yards irons will do fine.

low power optics have the benefit of being easier to shoot dusk and dawn


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## anniew (Dec 12, 2002)

Thanks for the replies.


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## alleyyooper (Apr 22, 2005)

I would not pass up a Savage rifle Plastiuc or wood stocked although I prefer wood my self.

I have a couple plastic stocked rifles but was able to unstrew the recoil pad and fill it with some blocks of closed cell foam to them quiet down.

I also own a 243 calaber rifle in fact two of them as I inhearted my dads Rugar 77 and my own Remington 700 Both have Bushnell scops the Remington has the same scope since I bought it in 1973. thye Rugar scope was puty on when it was new in 1974.

I love my 243 but do not buy ammo for it I hand load. 
Buy lots aff ammo for it in the most grains you can find some where around 100 to 105 grains for deer hunting. shoot that rifle with the hunting ammo till you can hit a plactic milk bottle cap nailed or taped to a back stop at 150 yards.

Don't be trying to be fancy and do neck or head shots either.

Now were I to recommend a really good caliber for a deer rifle for a beginner I would say go 308. I feel there is a tiny bit more room for error with a 308 than the 243.

The 243 is my windy day coyote rifle now.
I mostly hunt deer now in the rifle zone with a 7MM 08.



 Al


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## GunMonkeyIntl (May 13, 2013)

Lots of good advice here, but, @anniew i would be cautious about buying from a pawnshop, if guns aren’t “your thing”. Lots of good deals can be found there, but, if you don’t know what you’re looking for, you could also end up buying someone else’s problem- without a warranty.

Also, a lot of the scopes you’ll find on pawnshop bargains are no better than the combo kits @GREENCOUNTYPETE mentioned. I’ve seen some great scopes on pawnshop rifles, but I’ve also seen A LOT of cheap ones, on even cheaper mounts.

If you do decide to try the pawnshop route, don’t let them talk you into a deal you “have to buy right now”. If they’re worth dealing with, they’ll let you think on it and come back.

Get pictures of the rifle and scope, and post them here. You’ll get some pretty quick responses as to whether it’s worth considering, and at what price.


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## alleyyooper (Apr 22, 2005)

Don't over look a used rifle from a reputibable gun shop either.
Selling rifles shot guns and pistols is their bread and butter. Want to keep their good reputation so most all do a thuro inspection before they place it on the used gun shelf.

I am lucky and live near Williams gun sight company and they allow you to take a used rifle your looking at out to their range and take a few shots.

Another gun shop farther away sells the gun with a 2 week return policy if it doesn't suit what you were looking at.

Most gun shops will haggle on price a bit also.

 Al


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## topside1 (Sep 23, 2005)

FYI, I have two deer rifles, one is a Savage 110 chambered in .270 the other rifle is Marlin lever .30-30. If given the choice I always prefer the Marlin over the Savage. The marlin is shorter, lighter, and will drop a deer in short order. Woods hunting I pick Marlin, field hunting the Savage. Lots of choices out there, enjoy


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## AmericanStand (Jul 29, 2014)

I prefer something in the 30 caliber range. 
For the Op I don’t think it’s going to make a lot of difference. 
In fact my favorite hunting cartridge is the 7.62 x 54. 
That used to be you could pick up a bolt action quality rifle military surplus for that cartridge for less than $50
I used and enjoyed those bolt actions quite a bit ,still do but I came to prefer hunting with the SVT-40 , it is a military surplus semi automatic that used to be available for less than $200 now It’s up a lot. 
It’s pretty hard to beat the 30-06 or the .308. In current production guns although the edge probably goes to the .308.
I think the ultimate handy hunting gun would be a Browning automatic rifle in stainless with plastic stock.


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## GREENCOUNTYPETE (Jul 25, 2006)

I am fan of the 308 win for a deer or do all rifle it will do 97% of what the 30-06 can and it does it with less felt recoil. just about every store around has 308 win and generally more options for brand ,bullet weight , type and bullet composition.

it isn't a matter of will 308 kill any north american game it is a question of if it is over kill for some. like coyotes , humane kill yes saving the fur not so much.

if you are not shooting game past 250 yards 308 will do you just fine.

being your in NE PA you have decently large deer and you might get into bear or decide to go on a moose hunt at some point unless you were trying for a dual purpose coyote and deer gun or you were into long range shooting which it doesn't sound like you are. 308 would be a very good choice.


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## alleyyooper (Apr 22, 2005)

the 308 is a great all arounf deer and coyote rifle but ya better be a reloader so you can slect bullets that will kill a coyote and not tear the hide up badly if you plan on selling the fur.

The 243 is a great all around deer and coyote rifle and you cn buy the type of ammo you need for either at most good gun stores.
For deer you just need to be a little more accritte as it won't bust up a bunch of bones to slow the deer for a second shot like the heavy weight 30 cal bullet from a 308 can.

 Al


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## AmericanStand (Jul 29, 2014)

There are lots of cartridges in a 30 caliber size and that’s one of the benefits because of that there are lots of choices and bullets probably the most extensive of all. 
Some of the heaviest are suitable for big game up to and including bears and some of the smallest in sabots would be suitable suitable to shoot a squirrel with.


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## GREENCOUNTYPETE (Jul 25, 2006)

@anniew 

if your interested in a good value for a very versatile gun and don't plan to shoot deer beyond about 125 yards a shotgun combo might be just the thing for you.

I picked one of these Mossberg 500 combos up in 20ga a few years ago with a 26 inch field barrel meaning smooth bore it has screw in chokes so if you want to shoot bird shot , rifled slugs , buck shot for pests around the homestead and come deer season put the Rifled slug barrel( for sabot slugs) on and go deer hunting they take deer very well to around 100-125 yards and inside.

my son got his first shotgun a M500c 20ga Mossberg at age 10 they come in youth models with shorter stocks if your a short person and medium length stocks on the normal model. cost is about 325 new with both barrels , I picked mine up used for 225 a few years ago.

the down side is Sabot slugs are about 2-3 dollars each and slug guns can be slug picky meaning you might have to try 2-3 brands to find one that shoots well in your gun , I have been using Winchester dual bond 260gr 2 3/4 inch and they work well and shoot about a 3 inch group at 100 yards.

in slugs we get excited about a 3 inch group at 100 yards in a rifle we would not accept anything less than a 3 inch group generally from a new gun. it is the way it is shotguns are not long range guns even through the use of sabot slugs has given great increases to the accuracy and trajectory capability. with rifled slugs they were really a 50 yard gun. yes rifled slugs are fro smooth barrels and sabot slugs are for rifled barrels just one of the nomenclatures of guns that doesn't always make sense.

many of the combo rifled slug barrels also come with iron sights so that you don't need to purchase a scope

the guns are easy to break down and clean and offer a lot of options as long as your wanting to stay inside about 125 yards.

a link to the mossberg web site for the 500 20ga combo ignore MSRP it is much less in real world store pricing https://www.mossberg.com/product/500-combo-fielddeer-54282/


also thinking about nice well made guns in wood stocks at reasonable prices the Henry single shot rifle
https://www.budsgunshop.com/product_info.php/products_id/24376
these are a well made gun , the cost savings is in no repeating action , the barrel tips open a round is placed in the chamber close the action and when your ready to shoot thumb back the hammer and fire. comes with iron sights and they are generally easy and short to carry by not having a repeating action the barrel moves closer to the user a gun that would have a 22 inch barrel on a bolt action would be 42 inches long and the single shot is only 37 inches long so if your moving through underbrush it can be easier to carry. Henry are made at the Rice lake WI plant they have excellent quality control and make a very nice product.


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## alleyyooper (Apr 22, 2005)

260 Remington ammo is about the most expencive stuff I have seen recent on shelves.
Even the old 284 ammo was cheaper.

 Al


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## muleskinner2 (Oct 7, 2007)

Until you get out to very long ranges, the difference between a .243 and a .308 is so small the deer won't know the difference. Neither one generate enough recoil to be a consideration. Go to your favorite store and see what ammo is on the shelf, and what is the difference in price if any. Go to a range and shoot a few rifles, before you choose one to buy.

After you buy your rifle, shoot it, a lot. Shoot it until you are sick of it, then shoot it some more. A rifleman owes it to himself, and to the game animal, to be the best shot he or she can. Only hits count, loud noises never put any meat on the table.

Guns, boots, and a good coat are not things you should scrimp on. Any one of them could mean the difference between life or death.


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## GREENCOUNTYPETE (Jul 25, 2006)

definitely investing in quality tools that last and serve the need for potentially the rest of your life easily is worth the money up front.
guns don't rust out like cars and you seldom wear out a barrel hunting and even if you did barrels can often be replaced on quality guns for much less than the ammo it took to wear one out.
even in real barrel burner cartridges 1500-2K rounds is a barrel life expectancy before accuracy opens up. in 308 5K-7K and beyond. 

money spent now on a quality gun that fits you is a wise investment , when you buy quality you only pay for it once.


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## AmericanStand (Jul 29, 2014)

Any thoughts on the new straight wall 350?


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

AmericanStand said:


> Any thoughts on the new straight wall 350?


It's a sales gimmick for a small niche market.
They reinvented the 357 Maximum.


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## Cabin Fever (May 10, 2002)

Since I don't deer hunt anymore, I am sitting here wondering if I should sell my deer rifles.

40 yr old Marlin 336 (.30-30 cal) with a Nikon scope

Brand-new walnut Remington 7400 (.270 cal) with a Nikon scope (won at a local gun raffle)


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## GREENCOUNTYPETE (Jul 25, 2006)

AmericanStand said:


> Any thoughts on the new straight wall 350?





Bearfootfarm said:


> It's a sales gimmick for a small niche market.
> They reinvented the 357 Maximum.


I may not go so far as to say gimmick , I think the Taurus judge is a gimmick so I do believe there are plenty of gimmick guns out there.

if you say hunt deer in lower Michigan below a certain highway , or Indiana or one of the other states who have adopted strait wall pistol cartridges in formerly shotgun only zones then the 350 legend was designed to fit perfectly under that limit and at the same time fit in an AR platform so a dual niche market.

but a niche market non the less , none of the strait walls can touch the energy a simple 308 puts down range and the ranges it will easily take deer.

if I had been previously limited to slugs (I am in one area but WI went rifle and left it up to each township to restrict and enforce their own local ordinance ) and now I could load a strait wall pistol cartridge I would probably be buying something that fit that niche.


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## GREENCOUNTYPETE (Jul 25, 2006)

Cabin Fever said:


> Since I don't deer hunt anymore, I am sitting here wondering if I should sell my deer rifles.
> 
> 40 yr old Marlin 336 (.30-30 cal) with a Nikon scope
> 
> Brand-new walnut Remington 7400 (.270 cal) with a Nikon scope (won at a local gun raffle)


I guess if you need the money to fund something else or you have no kids that hunt in the family.


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## AmericanStand (Jul 29, 2014)

I like the .444 but I understand the 350 has a lot less kick.


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## Cabin Fever (May 10, 2002)

GREENCOUNTYPETE said:


> I guess if you need the money to fund something else or you have no kids that hunt in the family.


The older two grandsons are not showing much interest in hunting. Of course, there are 3 grandsons under the age of 8, so they may become interested someday. All the sons and sons in law, have their own deer rifles. 

One of these days, I am going to have to figure out who to leave my M1s, M14s, M1 Thompson, ARs, Rock-ola carbine, 03 Springfields, M1917, etc., etc, etc, to.


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## GREENCOUNTYPETE (Jul 25, 2006)

Cabin Fever said:


> The older two grandsons are not showing much interest in hunting. Of course, there are 3 grandsons under the age of 8, so they may become interested someday. All the sons and sons in law, have their own deer rifles.
> 
> One of these days, I am going to have to figure out who to leave my M1s, M14s, M1 Thompson, ARs, Rock-ola carbine, 03 Springfields, M1917, etc., etc, etc, to.


then I think you should spend some time with the ones who are younger get them out to shoot build a nice warm elevated blind and have them out for hunting , getting them hooked on deer before some other thing gets their interest , you shouldn't hang it up till you have hunted with each of them it is a very special thing to hunt with your grandfather.

I have hunted with my dad most years since I was 12 he had to take a few off for medical reasons.
My dads father didn't hunt and my moms dad was too busy farming and doing construction till he finally retired when I was 21 then we got some years of hunting together I think about 7, he is not doing so well now at 85 but those are great memories even if I did shoot all his deer for him. he had one doe trot in and stop and just look at him about 25 yards out from him, he had fallen asleep , it was about a 75 yard shot for me and that sure woke him up just in time to see it drop. if it was cold enough to have to pull his hat over his ears his hearing aids would squeal so he would take them out , then it was so quiet he would doze off. our first year hunting together Sunday night the weather turned bad and we were stuck at deer camp another day , he asked what do we do now? my dad and brother had left for home early my brother had class in the morning then the storm rolled in. what do we do ? We Hunt! went out and got 2 more deer I shot them both. snowing so hard deer tracks lasted 20 minutes only I would walk till I found tracks then follow them. riding home in his 86 dodge van with 4 deer in the back as little heat on as we could to keep from thawing them out. we got pulled over he was speeding once we got south of where the storm had hit. we must have been a sight cop just said slow down it looks like it should be 65 here but it is only 55 old Highway 151.

my great Uncle my dads uncle on his moms side was really both mine and my dads hunting mentor , we lost him yesterday to cancer but I got to hunt with him 25 of the last 28 years , great memories. keep the guns , and go make some memories even if you never fire another round at a deer.

to be honest I think the last time Uncle Bill took a shot was to finish off a cousins deer before it got away maybe 10 years ago. he probably carried the same 5 slugs around with him for the last 10 years only putting 2 in the gun.

uncle Bill hunted with a little Ithaca M37 20ga deer slayer (shotgun zone) , no deer camp for the family this year my son and I are going to hunt with the family of one of my sons friends and some of his high-school friends. then head over for the funeral Monday. unfortunately uncle Bill's own grandson is just getting to be old enough to hunt and we lost his other grandson that we did get some years of hunting with not long after his return from Iraq to a motorcycle accident.

you should definitely go make some memories when the grandson shoots a deer with it gift him the gun.


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## Cabin Fever (May 10, 2002)

GREENCOUNTYPETE said:


> then I think you should spend some time with the ones who are younger get them out to shoot build a nice warm elevated blind and have them out for hunting , getting them hooked on deer before some other thing gets their interest , you shouldn't hang it up till you have hunted with each of them it is a very special thing to hunt with your grandfather.
> 
> ....you should definitely go make some memories when the grandson shoots a deer with it gift him the gun.


Good advice. The problem is, they live about 1200 miles south of us, down in Texas.


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## GREENCOUNTYPETE (Jul 25, 2006)

Cabin Fever said:


> Good advice. The problem is, they live about 1200 miles south of us, down in Texas.


maybe you could go down there on a hog hunt with them some time.

well you do what you can do.


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## alleyyooper (Apr 22, 2005)

Yes there are several 350 type shot gun zone Michigan legal rifles and are not a gimic. Fellow next doors grown son used a 450 bush master to shoot his buck Sunday. Guy told me his son has a 870 Remington and couldn't keep it sighted in. Lot of guys jumped on those so called gimic rifles for southern Michigan shot gun zones.

Ya I have watched them 12ga, 3 inch mag slugs he would fire the gun get rocked really good. I would bet that he devloped a huge flinch is why he couldn't get it to sight in.

My hunting partner bought a 12ga Hastings slug barrtel years ago. he tried 3 inch ammo once and went back to 2 3/4 said it was wicked enough with them and I agreed only talked me into shooting it once.

Even my brother in law stopped hunting his own property because his 870 12ga slug gun was beating the snot out of him. He went and bought a deer camp in northern lower michigan and a 260 Remington Model 7 rifle to deer hunt with.

 Al


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## GREENCOUNTYPETE (Jul 25, 2006)

The 450 bushmaster , the 350 legend, 458 baowolf all really just cartridges to fill this Niche created by government rules , definitely not a gimmick. power of a 30-30 in a strait wall case is really ideal , slugs can be ok but they are hardly ever ideal.

a 260gr 44 cal bullet at 1800 fps is about as good 20ga slug you can get almost there in a 44 mag with a 240 grain bullet and probably think 3-4 inches at 100 yards is a huge group rather than a great one

450 bushmaster a 225gr bullet at 2400 fps is probably a great woods deer round

my only surprise is that no one has taken a .430 bullet and cut down a 30-06 case to 1.75 and made a rimless 44 cal round that spits 240gr bullets at 2400 fps but I guess the 45 won this time in the 450 and 458.
the 350 is supposed to be less recoil.

I went niche myself building a 300 black out pistol , with a long barrel and pistol brace , kinda nice having a few foot pounds short of a 30-30 in a pistol that has nearly no recoil and holds consistent 1 to 1 1/4 inch groups at 100 yards this combo has taken a 8 point and spike so far both neck shots and both fell where they had stood at about 75 and 95 yards my dad loves this gun he has a busted up back and it doesn't hurt him.

since the township said pistol and shotgun only we just built big pistols.
I won't say that the 300 black out is some super awesome killing machine because it definitely requires shot placement but it can play the shot placement game if you can being very accurate with tiny recoil.

Niche isn't bad if it's the hand your dealt , play it the best you can.


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