# Redoing Farmhouse homestead



## philm (Dec 16, 2014)

I recently purchased a 2 story 1900s farm house with 10 acres, half wooded, half slight south facing hayfield. No barn unfortunately. But i bought it as is. So far the septic/well turned out to be okay which was a big relief. Before i bought it,. 3 years ago a new roof, all new windows, all new siding and one new door was installed. The inside is up to me.

I gutted it, and will be putting in new insulation, new wiring, new duct work, a new wood stove and a new furnace.

Im just wondering what the best insulation would be for an old farm house, ive read either open core spray in foam is good, or a combo of 2" of spray in foam and then the rest is fiberglass batts.


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## simi-steading (Sep 27, 2012)

That's a very cool house... Is it an illusion or is that one wall curved?

As far as insulation, I did a lot of research... Mine is built very similar to yours. Same types of materials and type of framing.. I kept coming back to none is the best solution... Sealing the gaps and stopping the drafts is the option I'm going with.

The reason is, if you start sealing things up, and start filling the walls with insulation you start getting moisture and mold problems that in the long run sets you up for rot problems.. 

I weighed it out hard and heavy, and since my heat is all free, I decided less mold and rot problems was the best solution..

New homes that are built from the ground up with heavy insulation and being air tight in mind have features built into them that help resolve the mold and rot problems. My findings were that old houses don't do well the more you try to seal them up and keep them warm..


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## philm (Dec 16, 2014)

thanks for the reply! Ive been reading that a lot as well, but keep getting conflicting arguments saying that if you have the proper vapor barrier, and use open core spray in foam, there should be enough to shy away from rot/mold problems.

Do you think i could seal up okay without taking all the lathe off? or should I just rip it all off.. its just a giant house and ill be the only one doing it haha. When you were sealing up your house were there any areas that were drafty that were a surprise to you? any advice for the caulking/foam spray sealing would be greatly appreciated. I just live in a very cold environment (zone 4 growing, -25F winters) and want to do as much as i can to keep the house efficient, so thats why i was thinking about using insulation.

The wall isnt curved, i used the panoramic feature of my phone so it distorted it a little, but there is a curved wall in the downstairs.


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## Jade1096 (Jan 2, 2008)

No advice, but I would love to see more pictures of this home.

Have you considered starting a blog to chronicle all the work and show off the before and after?


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## MO_cows (Aug 14, 2010)

Looks like a neat old house! Whew, glad that was photo distortion and the floor doesn't really take that huge dip.

I would take all that lath out. I know it's a lot of work but hey, you would have a lifetime supply of kindling. With it gone, you can get into the cavities to insulate much easier, and get an even better look at the structure.

I would use batt insulation. When they put that siding on, they should have put a vapor barrier house wrap, then a solid foam insulation (probably just 1 inch), then the siding. At least that's how they do it in this neck of the woods.

What kind of foundation is under it? My experience with old houses on crawlspaces has been, that's where most of the cold seeps in from.


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## simi-steading (Sep 27, 2012)

Mine is tongue and groove board, but still similar to lath... Myself, I'd leave it and dry wall over it... Only take out what you need to run wiring and duct work.. It does help add strength to the house, plus it also makes dry walling easier since you don't need to worry about adding nailers where needed.. 

I'm living in a construction zone still.. Most all my walls are all still board. I've gotten some dry wall in, but right now I'm busy remodeling my mudroom and bathroom. I got the closet built today after finishing up getting the vanity and sink in..

As far as sealing things up, if I have big cracks or holes, I fill with foam, or cover with heavy plastic, then drywall over that. I don't plastic large areas. I only plastic over any area that's a hole too big to foam where boards have been removed. I don't want to create a vapor barrier. I also put up drywall ,and like around the bottom where it meets the floor, I'll spray foam those areas. For the corners, mudding and taping takes care of that. I also foam around windows and doorways between the boards and drywall.. You can seal up a whole lotta cracks with drywall and spray foam.

As far as a vapor barrier being put under the siding, don't count on it... Look to find out for sure.. Mine has some tar paper in some areas, in other areas the siding is put directly over clap board. That is a big reason I've decided not to insulate mine.

OH.. the reason I am remodeling my bath and mudroom now is because I had to remove and repair the whole exterior wall... Moisture had gotten into the insulation in it and I had to rebuild the wall. all the sheathing had rotted, and about 4 feet up of the studs had rotted.. It was because the barriers weren't done right, the insulation got wet, then froze, then all fell into the bottom of the walls... All new wall, all new siding, all new barriers, all new insulation.. new construction exterior wall basically... 

Since I had to completely redo the walls, I did them right, and insulated them correctly... Since I can't do that with the rest of the house, that's why I'm not insulating them.


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## philm (Dec 16, 2014)

you dont want to create a vapor barrier because in old homes you dont want to stop the moisture, you want it to travel up the stud cavities and out through the attic? just want to make sure I got that straight.

So far after demolishing every wall in that house we have only found one rotted stud, only one. I am very grateful for that, I was a little worried. Its on the part of the house that is only over a crawlspace (if you can call it that), and not a basement. It was originally designed to be a porch, but then they built on it, closed it in and turned it into a bathroom? Idk why they thought that was a good idea with how low (-25F) temperatures can get. So we moved the bathroom from there and put it into a room that has the basement under it. Im not sure about the sheathing though. There is tar paper, and then old blow in insulation, and I havent taken all that down yet, but im hoping since the blow in was only taking up half of the cavity, and with the tar paper, that moisture somehow was not able to puddle up at all.


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## simi-steading (Sep 27, 2012)

For mine, I want moisture to be able to move which ever way it wants... either out or in. After all the rot I've dealt with from people in the past putting tar paper in this area or that area with no rhyme or reason, I'm just letting the place breath.. I've replaced almost every floor in the place. All were covered with tar paper... Some on bottom, some on top, some on both side... I have a crawl space too, but I covered all the dirt with heavy plastic before I put the joists and floors back in. I've replaced walls and a beam.. it's not been fun.. but we did get a heck of a deal on the place that's made it worth all the work.. we've had the place right at two years this month.. We moved in this past July.

My heat is free, so I am letting the house do i's thing. Not forcing any moisture problems where there doesn't need to be.. This area is VERY wet... I feel like I live in a rain forest and mud bog.. I've gotten the attics insulated and it's not hard at all to get the house up to 80 or above.. I still have some larger air holes I haven't dealt with yet, but I hope I will be before the winter is over..


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## Nimrod (Jun 8, 2010)

You live in a cold area. There has to be a vapor barrier that seals up the inside of all the outside walls. Otherwise water vapor will migrate into the walls from the moist interior of the house. When it's cold outside, in the winter, the water vapor would get cold enough to condense and maybe even freeze. The liquid water will cause rot, mildew, and ruin your insulation.

Look at under the siding. The outside of the walls should be permeable to water vapor. Any water vapor that gets into the wall must be able to migrate to the great outdoors. This combined with a vapor barrier to keep most of the water vapor from getting into the walls in the first place will keep the inside of the walls dry.


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## simi-steading (Sep 27, 2012)

Nimrod said:


> This combined with a vapor barrier to keep most of the water vapor from getting into the walls in the first place will keep the inside of the walls dry.


This is where I get into issues, and why I decided not to put in any insulation, or vapor barriers, and just let the house breath... This area is so wet, that mold is a huge issue... We've fought mold from day one, and have torn out a lot of wood inside and replaced it because of bad mold issues. Plus during the winter, it can get really cold and cause the condensation issues if no vapor barrier, or in the wrong place.. That's why I had to replace the one wall.... 

It was kind of a no brainer... insulation costs a lot, our heat was free.. .soooo... The attics are insulated well though, to keep the heat from rising out.. We don't have issues with it getting wet..


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## philm (Dec 16, 2014)

If I seal the walls, where does the water vapor migrate too then? Through the ceilings?


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## simi-steading (Sep 27, 2012)

It could, if you don't seal them.. If you do seal everything from the inside, and if there's a lot of humidity, then you get into the mold issues inside during the spring/summer...at least that's the way it is in this area..


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## just_sawing (Jan 15, 2006)

Number one reason to apply insulation to the walls is not insulation. These old houses are built with balloon construction which means that the stud goes from the bottom to the top with no cross bracing. This means that if you have a fire it is almost impossible to put out. Every stud cavity acts as a chimney. I am remolding one of the same vintage and will put foam in the walls.


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## philm (Dec 16, 2014)

what type of foam are you using? are you hiring a contractor or are you going to do it yourself? are you going to to the 2" of close cell foam and then fiberglass? or 4" of open cell foam?


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## Nimrod (Jun 8, 2010)

simi-steading said:


> This is where I get into issues, and why I decided not to put in any insulation, or vapor barriers, and just let the house breath... This area is so wet, that mold is a huge issue... We've fought mold from day one, and have torn out a lot of wood inside and replaced it because of bad mold issues. Plus during the winter, it can get really cold and cause the condensation issues if no vapor barrier, or in the wrong place.. That's why I had to replace the one wall....
> 
> It was kind of a no brainer... insulation costs a lot, our heat was free.. .soooo... The attics are insulated well though, to keep the heat from rising out.. We don't have issues with it getting wet..


Most of us don't live in a rain forest with 100 percent humidity all the time. If the outside of the wall lets water vapor out and the vapor barrier on the inside prevents it from getting into the wall, the inside of the wall and insulation will stay dry so there won't be any mold.

Most of us don't have free heat. It will cost thousands of dollars a month to heat a drafty house in zone 4 with no insulation.


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## philm (Dec 16, 2014)

thanks for all the replies everyone! I really appreciate it. Reconstruction wont start till spring but ill be sure to make a new thread with updates with pictures.


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## ncchickenmama (Aug 21, 2013)

If you are going to insulate then insulate the attic and the basement but do not insulate the walls- that will just lead to moisture issues. Most of an old house's heat is lost through the attic/chimneys/basement and not through the windows or walls.


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## Dixie Bee Acres (Jul 22, 2013)

Seriously???? DON'T insulate the walls?????
Sorry, but I have to disagree big time with that. Yes, insulate the attic and basement, sure. But as long as its gutted, there is no reason on earth why you shouldn't insulate the walls.


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## arjan (Dec 12, 2014)

beautiful old house more photos please. than were insulated walls?


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## potter28 (Sep 10, 2014)

I love the theories people have sometimes, I've done a number of balloon constructed homes. Please tear off all the lathe, your electrician, plumber, HVAC and insulator will be much happier. I'm one of them and I guarantee you a lot of it will be gone once they're finished. Buddy of mine owns a insulation business he almost always sprays a 1" coating of foam between the studs which seals out the drafts and tightens everything up, followed by cellulose to the thickness of the wall cavity. Normal stud depth on that style house is close to 4 -5". To foam the whole cavity would cost a fortune. Why did you leave the lathe in place? It serves no purpose but to be a backing for the plaster which is gone. Fiberglass batts are the cheapest but also the least effective, ever tear out a piece and see black on it, that's air movement around it. Good luck


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## philm (Dec 16, 2014)

thats just how far i got that one particular day, we are gutting everything. just taking a long time.


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## arjan (Dec 12, 2014)

very interesting, more pics please!:thumb:


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## potter28 (Sep 10, 2014)

ok, never seen anybody be so careful to leave the lathe on like that. I wouldn't take down the 2nd floor ceilings as you can just overlay them with drywall. Insulate the heck out of that thing, I've spent most of this week fixing frozen pipes and even the smallest gap will let a tremendous amount of air in. Had hot water baseboard frozen up on a job today because they left a small gap between the floor and drywall in an old farmhouse, they used fiberglass in the wall and didn't drywall tight to the floor. Whatever you decide to insulate with get a good foam gun and foam the perimeter at the baseboard before floor finishes go in. Keep up the good work, you've got your hands full.


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## 3grandkidsfarm (Jan 10, 2015)

Nice place.we like the old houses.wish we could have found one


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