# Shooting Gallery



## Montanarchist (Feb 24, 2005)

This coming fall I'm going to do something I've dreamed about for a long, long time. I'm going to do some target shooting at Burning Man. I've fought them on this for more than a decade. For years, the part I looked forward to most was really exercising my Looooong range 50. I'm in the bumpy part of Montana and 2000yd ranges just don't exist.

Now, though, I think the best part will be the art car with a polycarbonate .22 pistol shooting range. With this I can bring the ability for every burner to exercise their Right to have/wear/train with firearms. I'm sure they're all going to love it. Especially setting up by the #burningman communist party. Those uptight sacs need to loosen up and burn some powder. ... And not by the historical Commy Democide murders 

Has anyone built anything like this, any ideas? I'm thinking carnival style shooting gallery targets in a polycarbonate enclosure. 

I also would like to be able to provide the training participants would need to get a conceal carry permit- in those F'ed up states that don't respect the Constitution yet- most specifically in San Francisco. Those poor bastard aren't much more than targets in a real life shooting gallery out there.


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## Montanarchist (Feb 24, 2005)

Oh, I'm working with the BLM there on the 2000yd range, that will be outside the city proper


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## GREENCOUNTYPETE (Jul 25, 2006)

people love reactive targets , the steel is nice but spall is an issue 

if 22lr bulk pack is used then the rubber self healing targets are nice and not to expensive 

now a range that can basically be right around a crowd of people is harder , especially people with zero training and no muzzle discipline 

rifles are easier to maintain muzzle discipline with you put up dividers like shooting lanes at an indoor range to make it hard for them to swing on their neighbor

there is a reason the indoor range booths are typically armor between lanes the ones we have at our club are an old set on national guard booths they can take a 44mag from a few inches.

staffing it with RSO range safety officers so that they are basically one on one with your novice shooters 

with so many different requirements to CCL and some states requiring only a certified trainer for that state counts for proof of training that is a lot to stuff into a little time.

a shuttle to bring people to a range away from the crowds that you could better control would probably be easier to do than to set up in a crowd.


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## Montanarchist (Feb 24, 2005)

Thanks for the reply and all the great info. 3/4" polycarbonate is pricey which is why I'm thinking pistol. I'm also thinking a kinda keyhole monkey trap and of course a cable or ball joint type post to limit muzzle movement for the novices.


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## GREENCOUNTYPETE (Jul 25, 2006)

I am not sure I understand the goal , is it to let everyone fire a few rounds from a pistol , but have the pistol basically locked in place so it has limited range and no ability to be removed with out tools so that they can try it but with minimal risk of someone grabbing the gun and turning around with it ?
and to also do it where lots of people can watch ?

one set up , multiples ?

how big are you trying to get it all on a trailer or set up there ?


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## Montanarchist (Feb 24, 2005)

It's still young as the event isn't until next fall but that way I see it is as a 3/4" poly square tunnel 4" square. Steel Bullet trap and targets on the back. A single shooting bay on the rear. With a bike seat cantilevered for the bay. Length depends on the carrier vehicle. You see it's the Drive-by Shooting Gallery... In honor of the infamous Burning Man Drive-by Shooting Gallery of the early years... Which I suspect would be frowned on. I'll post a couple videos so you can see the spirit I want to catch.


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## Montanarchist (Feb 24, 2005)

Here's the first. I almost made it to this one. 








The Drive-By Shooting Range at Burning Man 1994


Over at Weird America Chuck Cirino has just posted his infamous video of the The Drive-By Shooting Range from Burning Man 1994, where they shot at stuffed




laughingsquid.com


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## Montanarchist (Feb 24, 2005)

And the second, my favorite.


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## GREENCOUNTYPETE (Jul 25, 2006)

I have seen that video before

but it sounds like you are wanting a gallery of sorts for back where the people area is ?

or are you trying to set it up so a person like sits in the back of the pickup as they are driven by and they have limited range to turn the gun and shoot at the targets ?


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## Montanarchist (Feb 24, 2005)

In the back of a P/U on a trailer, whatever.


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## Montanarchist (Feb 24, 2005)

It would be fun to have shooters on it while it does the 5MPH tour of the event but I'd have to check legality...I don't think anything like this has been done before


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## GREENCOUNTYPETE (Jul 25, 2006)

what is the total distance to target and distance to backstop you are thinking , is this mostly for the experience of shooting a gun or is this to actually engage targets and make hits ?


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## Montanarchist (Feb 24, 2005)

For this year, probably 10' close, easy, and exciting. The idea is to expose people to the action and fun of target shooting.


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## GREENCOUNTYPETE (Jul 25, 2006)

you might be able to use something like this Sunflex

I have shot some similar but just for pistol rounds at regional USPSA matches when they need to set up a stage indoors that would impact a side wall this is what they use. the ones I have shot were made by a different company and for pistol rounds.

the thing is you need to contain all your sides and top also because the indoor range is rated to take a 308win in the walls how do you contain all that 

reducing the ammunition you use might help CCI quite and quite semi auto 710fps and 835fps from a rifle cut your noise and power about in half

we have a portable air gun range made by Crossman that works for our target pellet rifles and pistols it is 30 feet long but I am not sure how you are going to do it without being very heavy and very expensive.

away from people and into a nice big dirt pile is cheap and easy , when you add people to the equation , potentially 360* on the structure , it gets difficult.


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## GREENCOUNTYPETE (Jul 25, 2006)

you know air soft with some decent air soft guns could work very cheap and easy where the people are then book them for a trip out to the actual range to shoot real guns if they enjoyed shooting the cans up close.

now you made it quite , cheap , easy to do , some painters cloths for a backstop and only real safety gear is a box of safety glasses , you can do a fair bit of training on grip , stance , trigger squeeze , sight picture and sight alignment.

a trip out to the range for recoil and cartridge guns where you can have a bunch of steel set up and get those cali kids shooting ARs , AKs and some handguns.

yes air soft training mostly converts to live fire as a proof of concept some competitive shooters invited a guy from japan or china or something like that to the US , the guy trained with air soft in his home country running drills and shooting stages , in one day they got him on the real cartridge version of the air soft gun he used at home and he did decent at a competition.there is youtube video of this if you search it.


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## Montanarchist (Feb 24, 2005)

Airsoft don't smell right.  ... And I don't own any, but they would be allowed to use them in the gallery in addition to the real firearms. I don't think they'll allow airsoft for the trailing for most permits either. 

I'll have the 2000yd range outside the city but a lot of people don't like to leave and the Org charges an in/out fee.


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## Danaus29 (Sep 12, 2005)

Montanarchist said:


> I'll have the 2000yd range outside the city but a lot of people don't like to leave and the Org charges an in/out fee


They don't do like most venues and give you a hand stamp for re-entry? Maybe that is something they should consider, but they probably won't since they lose money by not charging the fees.


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## GREENCOUNTYPETE (Jul 25, 2006)

Montanarchist said:


> Airsoft don't smell right.  ... And I don't own any, but they would be allowed to use them in the gallery in addition to the real firearms. I don't think they'll allow airsoft for the trailing for most permits either.
> 
> I'll have the 2000yd range outside the city but a lot of people don't like to leave and the Org charges an in/out fee.


Many CCL permits need no live fire Wisconsin is 4 hour WIDOJ class taught by a DOJ certified instructor or your hunters ed card or your DD214 or any other states CCL and if you aren't a certified instructor for that states course it won't matter what they shoot. your not going to be able to get the live fire portion of a CCL/CCP done with hundreds of people in a tiny range.
in most cases you are talking a 2 hour rang time with a limited class size to get those training requirements done on range.

working out a single shuttle with the organizers that takes you to and from a range sounds much easier than setting up a live fire range in the middle of 70K people

or putting the range at the absolute edge of the city would limit noise and risk

looking at the rules for amplification , I don't know how gun fire isn't going to be an issue

one thing there seems to be a LOT of is sand you could build a sand bag bunker to house the range a simple roof with sand bags on it also

if you haven't heard of it before most outdoor ranges anywhere near populations have what they call NO CLEAR BLUE SKY this is from the shooting line you can not see blue sky only the target and backstop so you can't put a round over the backstop this is typically accomplished with a roof over the shooting line and a series of timbers that are in front of the firing line about every 24 inches so that from the firing line you can't see sky or shoot into sky but light comes strait down

here you can see a WI-DNR range how they have no clear blue sky from behind the firing line bench

















that sign that said do not move targets , turned out to be an issue , they NEVER moved them nor did the DNR do any proper maintenance on the range which would have been to go to the spot behind where everyone hangs their target basically the top center of that board , scoop a few wheel barrows full of sand out , sift it to collect the lead then scoop the sifted sand back in place.
so after about 4 years of that range being open they had such a clump of lead behind those target stands they started getting bullets bouncing off them mass of lead
so in true DNR fashion they closed the range for many months to deal with a lack of maintenance that would have been solved in 30 minutes with an end loader.

this is also why 25 feet is the typical minimum distance to a backstop , bounce back is real and on steel spawl is real


when ever you are building a range you are not building it for you , your building for the lowest possible common denominator , Idiots are everywhere and when you start talking novices they might have a double doctorate in medicine and nuclear physics and they still don't understand the bullet comes out the end of the gun never point it at anything you don't mind shooting.

the texas LTC proficency test requires 3, 7, and 15 yards and 50 rounds fired and can only be administered by a Texas LTC certified instructor

I think you need to decide are you doing a first shots to get greater interest, for fun shooting or a CCL/LTC/CCP training. I don't think you can do all 3


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## GREENCOUNTYPETE (Jul 25, 2006)

last year I worked a shoot as an RSO it was a club fundraiser open to the public.
most everyone I ran on the course was a regular pistol shooter , but many of them were brand new as in the gun just came out of the box from the store shotgun users.
I was explaining how to load a shotgun tube , where the safety was and how it worked , slide release. 
the only issue I didn't hardly have was muzzle control because most of the people we ran had been regular shooters of handguns at the indoor range.
this was a 10 round course of fire and it probably never took less than 5 minutes a person some times more to get gun uncased , load , shoot and move and reload and shoot and move , verify clear , re-case. 30-60 seconds of that was shooting.
how are you going to staff this , we had 2 RSO at the line and a 3rd watching our spectators and singing people in.
it is exhausting to be ON for hours like that , explaining , watching , alwasy ready to grab a barrel and push it back down range.

I work 8 hour days as an RSO fairly often , but having that many novices is just exhausting.


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## Montanarchist (Feb 24, 2005)

I'm still sorting everything out, but as for noise, at that range those little .22 hummingbirds that use no or hardly any powder and make hardly any noise would be perfect


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## GREENCOUNTYPETE (Jul 25, 2006)

I have never heard of a 22 humingbird 

do you mean a 22CBee








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the CCI quiets and CBee rounds do still make a fair amount of noise from a pistol , they are quite quiet when you get over an 18 inch barrel.

these rounds do not cycle semi auto pistols well , you can cut enough off the action spring out of some semi auto rifles to get them to cycle reliably.

what are you thinking for guns the cbee or quiets would work in a revolver.

I think I would be trying to get everyone to shoot a AR in 22lr so they could say they shot the big evil AR and they don't see what all the lies are about everyone should own one.

the CMMG kit works fairly well and should be even better with their barrel and not just rattling 22lr down a 5.56 barrel

the black dog 25 round mags work well Black Dog Machine Sonic X Conversion Mag Nylon Feed Lips AR-15 CMMG dry lube is your friend with all things semi auto 22 Hornady one shot and WD-40 specialist dry lube with ptfe seem to both work.

now with what your going to have to spend to make this happen , suppressed guns would be awesome you need low noise and selling the idea of gun mufflers are not evil would be priceless.


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