# Is a Berkshie Cross still better tasting than a non Berk?



## Mosherd1 (Nov 12, 2011)

I am purchasing some Berkshire/Duroc cross sows, pregnant now. I hear about the amazing taste of Berkshires and wonder if a Berkshire cross would taste better, since it has some Berkshire, when compared to a non Berkshire? Another question, if Berkshires taste so good, what are the reasons why one would not want to raise Berks, assuming they are available? Are there temperament issues, litter size, or some other considerations why some would not want to raise them? If they taste the best why doesn't every homesteader raise them? Thanks,
-Dave


----------



## gerold (Jul 18, 2011)

Mosherd1 said:


> I am purchasing some Berkshire/Duroc cross sows, pregnant now. I hear about the amazing taste of Berkshires and wonder if a Berkshire cross would taste better, since it has some Berkshire, when compared to a non Berkshire? Another question, if Berkshires taste so good, what are the reasons why one would not want to raise Berks, assuming they are available? Are there temperament issues, litter size, or some other considerations why some would not want to raise them? If they taste the best why doesn't every homesteader raise them? Thanks,
> -Dave


We could talk all day on this one. 

Berkshire is red meat if raised on good pasture and corn fed, etc. Intramuscular fat in hogs in most heritage breeds improves the tenderness and taste. 
Duroc /Berkshire is a little less fat in the meat so a little less favor if on the same feed. Duroc is big and fast growing but is a lean hog with less fat then the Berkshire. 

Old spot is high on the list for favor depending on its diet. I cross the Spot with Hereford to make for more compact and bigger hams and still top flavor with good back fat. Depending again on how they are raised and feed. 
All my pigs are on pasture of all kinds of grass and grain plus ground corn. Works for me. 


I prefer Hereford,old spot,and Poland China taste over Berkshire or Duroc or Yorkshire.

Duroc and Yorkshire is not quite as tender as the ones i raise. Duroc/Yorks and crosses is mainly what sales in the stores around here (factory Hogs), the meat has less flavor and is a bit harder then most of the breeds i raise. Not much intramuscular fat in the lean type hogs.


----------



## brittlois (Feb 15, 2016)

I'm just getting into hog raising myself and had the exact same thoughts/questions. 

There are two reasons I decided on using a Berkshire boar and York mix sow. I also have a Hamp/Poland China gilt that I am going to breed to him.

First is hybrid vigor. Since I will be selling the meat by the pound, a 10-15% increase in poundage is beneficial. Second is because Berkshires do not have the strongest maternal traits. I believe the average litter size is around 9 for Berks and they wean an average of 7. Yorks are 2-3 more in both categories. If your sow is of a breed that has and raises more babies...and your boar is of a tasty breed...you're going to get more lbs of tasty meat.


----------



## gerold (Jul 18, 2011)

brittlois said:


> I'm just getting into hog raising myself and had the exact same thoughts/questions.
> 
> There are two reasons I decided on using a Berkshire boar and York mix sow. I also have a Hamp/Poland China gilt that I am going to breed to him.
> 
> First is hybrid vigor. Since I will be selling the meat by the pound, a 10-15% increase in poundage is beneficial. Second is because Berkshires do not have the strongest maternal traits. I believe the average litter size is around 9 for Berks and they wean an average of 7. Yorks are 2-3 more in both categories. If your sow is of a breed that has and raises more babies...and your boar is of a tasty breed...you're going to get more lbs of tasty meat.


Sounds very interesting with your crosses. Keep us posted as to how they turn out. I like testing different ideas in raising hog.


----------



## thericeguy (Jan 3, 2016)

I have just started my adventures into raising pigs. Take my input for what it is worth. I have a Berk boar and two Berk gilts, all three registered and purchased from a fellow who breeds for meat quality. He has made a name for himself nationally in meat competitions. 

I knew that I wanted the highest quality meat I could produce as I have no intention of trying to compete against factory pork. I chose 100% registered Berk. I see a lot of people trying to reduce this national food movement to hype and gimmicks to "cash in". GET YOUR VINTAGE HEIRLOOM GMO SQUASH HERE. Utterly ridiculous. 

For me to sleep at night, I wanted to make sure I had a 100% legit product that I felt good about. That made the choice for me. 

On a side note, my first litter is due tomorrow and I can start to discover if anyone agrees with me as marketing will begin soon.


----------



## highlands (Jul 18, 2004)

Flavor comes from feed, not genetics.
Flavor is stored in the fat - this is where genetics, age and caloric input affect things.
Feed for flavor.
Raise to marbled age.

-Walter


----------



## thericeguy (Jan 3, 2016)

An exerpt from the American Berkshire Association. 

The superior quality of Berkshire pork is well documented. In a summary of tests conducted over a 10-year span at the National Barrow Show in Austin, Minnesota, Berkshire pigs scored highest of all major American pure breeds in sensory quality. From various studies, including the Journal of Animal Science, Berkshire pork was ranked first in 19 of 22 quality measures in four important categories. 

Source: http://www.americanberkshire.com/about/100-program/

I have seen the data repeated in many different formats. The conclusions are always the same. Berkshire pork holds the title. Unless the entrants among the breeds were fed disimilar diets over this 10 years of data, it would seem genetics play a role in final product. 

While I would agree that a Berkshire fed on slop vs any breed fed a proper diet would likely have a different outcome, these long term industry studies suggest that a Berkshire side by side with the other breeds on the same diet, statistically the odds favor the Berkshire for superior meat quality.


----------



## gerold (Jul 18, 2011)

thericeguy said:


> An exerpt from the American Berkshire Association.
> 
> The superior quality of Berkshire pork is well documented. In a summary of tests conducted over a 10-year span at the National Barrow Show in Austin, Minnesota, Berkshire pigs scored highest of all major American pure breeds in sensory quality. From various studies, including the Journal of Animal Science, Berkshire pork was ranked first in 19 of 22 quality measures in four important categories.
> 
> ...


http://heritagefoodsusa.com/blog/heritage-breed-tasting-chart/

Really depends on who the judges are. Best way is to taste test them yourself. I Do. Find out which one is best for you. 

One customer (Amish Lady) who says the Yorkshire steaks from a 2 year old Yorkshire boar (800 lb) with pork chops 3 x larger then a 250 lb. hog was the best pork she ever tasted. I do sell to a lot of Amish folks in this area. 
The meat from this hog was great. It was fattened on ground organic corn.


----------



## brittlois (Feb 15, 2016)

gerold said:


> Sounds very interesting with your crosses. Keep us posted as to how they turn out. I like testing different ideas in raising hog.



It is definitely a test! I have worked with cattle for years and know which breeds I prefer for my desired results. I started out getting 2-4 cows of each breed I was interested in and tracking their calf results using the same bull. I hope I can see similar trends with pigs. 

Regardless of the species, I firmly believe in picking the right breeds for YOUR farm. Climate, feed availability, forage variety, soil content, nearby marketing avenues, water sources, etc are MUCH more important than what a breed association tells you.


----------



## thericeguy (Jan 3, 2016)

I did not post an article about the employees of a company frying up some pork chops and doing a taste test with the warehouse staff. The article at ABA is quoting a 10 year data gathering done at the National Barrow Show, one of a few very significant shows that will greatly influence the genetic pool of the pork industry. 

The data does not involve individuals off the street ftying up some meat. They are industry based tests done on a carcass to assess quality. It is used to establish EPD's if you care to use them in husbandry choices. Meat quality can be influenced greatly by genetics. Perhaps flavor cannot. But who wants really great tasting cardboard?

http://www.nationalswine.com/shows/open_shows/nbs/downloads/Sire_Summary_Packet_2015.pdf

Look at the Porque scoring, as that emphasizes meat quality. They call it customer acceptance. It is that type of standardized industry testing that Berkshire producers refer to when discussing meat quality in breeds. Berkshire holds more top rankings in more categories than the other breeds. 

Finding a customer who thinks 3 legged white colored pigs at 900# is the best pork might not be good evidence for forming a business plan. I am sticking with the standardized testing results to maximize my odds.


----------



## cooper101 (Sep 13, 2010)

They're quite good. We do berk crosses on pasture, fed grain. It's excellent meat. A lot of it's relative. A person with a very well-trained palate might be able to tell the difference between a full berk and a berk cross that were raised and fed the same. I guarantee you the average person can tell the difference between a grocery store pork chop and a berk cross pork chop that was raised on a good diet and had favorable living conditions. And that average person probably can't tell the difference between a berk and a berk cross. Raise and feed them well, and you'll have excellent meat.


----------



## msweeten (Jan 22, 2015)

We may be getting some Berkshire feeders... the seller said they aren't the best pork chop pigs. But they retain gilts on litter size/attitude. ig:

We have been tossing around the idea of keeping back a gilt or two. I'm curious about if we do this what to breed the gilts to improve pork chops?


----------



## thericeguy (Jan 3, 2016)

Is the breeder saying that the loin size is small and chop yield will be low? If that is the case, you have many options, but all will revolve around using an individual with a larger loin. You can find that in all the breeds. Not necessary to cross, but you can.


----------



## msweeten (Jan 22, 2015)

Yes he said they didn't have the best loins.


----------



## thericeguy (Jan 3, 2016)

Just buy semen or a boar with a larger loin and improve your genetics. The guy I bought my stock from set a record for loin size in Berks. They are out there.


----------



## jordie (May 12, 2016)

Mosherd1 said:


> I am purchasing some Berkshire/Duroc cross sows, pregnant now. I hear about the amazing taste of Berkshires and wonder if a Berkshire cross would taste better, since it has some Berkshire, when compared to a non Berkshire? Another question, if Berkshires taste so good, what are the reasons why one would not want to raise Berks, assuming they are available? Are there temperament issues, litter size, or some other considerations why some would not want to raise them? If they taste the best why doesn't every homesteader raise them? Thanks,
> -Dave


I think mine taste better than any breed.... I think they are a great pig from all aspects of meat..... and handling


----------



## Chambers (Sep 27, 2015)

The Duroc's that I raise are an old bloodline that has been kept by the same gentleman since the late 1960's. They produce a well marbled chop when grown to 300-350 lbs. The chops are flavorful and tender, I like them on the grill. The Duroc breed has always been known for it's outstanding meat quality. I think a berk/duroc cross would produce very good meat if raised and fed properly.


----------



## gerold (Jul 18, 2011)

Mosherd1 said:


> I am purchasing some Berkshire/Duroc cross sows, pregnant now. I hear about the amazing taste of Berkshires and wonder if a Berkshire cross would taste better, since it has some Berkshire, when compared to a non Berkshire? Another question, if Berkshires taste so good, what are the reasons why one would not want to raise Berks, assuming they are available? Are there temperament issues, litter size, or some other considerations why some would not want to raise them? If they taste the best why doesn't every homesteader raise them? Thanks,
> -Dave


Many years ago a fellow in N. Mo. Crossed the Berkshire/Duroc. What came out was a better shaped hog with bigger hams. The cross makes for a very tender meat hog with very good taste. There are still a few around from back then. Its called Poland China. Later some of them had some white hog mixed in and they were called Spotted Poland China. I have some of the Spotted Poland China.


----------



## highlands (Jul 18, 2004)

thericeguy said:


> An exerpt from the American Berkshire Association. The superior quality of Berkshire pork is well documented. In a summary of tests conducted over a 10-year span at the National Barrow Show in Austin, Minnesota, Berkshire pigs scored highest of all major American pure breeds in sensory quality. From various studies, including the Journal of Animal Science, Berkshire pork was ranked first in 19 of 22 quality measures in four important categories.


That's just PR. 

Unfortunately these sorts of judged tests are pretty worthless. They're just marketing hype. The problem is the hogs were raised under different conditions to different ages on different farms with different feeds. These are so easy to rig that they're not even worth bothering with.

Science is that flavor comes from feed and is stored in fat. The breed of the pig is not what affects the flavor. It is the feed that sets the flavor. Lots of research on this.

What breed, age and caloric input can do is determine how much marbling there is, the fat within the muscle. This is important

Any test that fails to control for these variables is just a gimmick and not science. Stick with science.

-Walter


----------



## thericeguy (Jan 3, 2016)

Let's see where the data comes and from who and let everyone decide for themselves if it's a rigged contest as you claim.

Source: http://www.ipic.iastate.edu/information/Berkshire.Production.Marketing.Report.pdf

But you can find the exact same information in many many places as it appears to be widely accepted in the pork industry and uncontested.

The focus on meat quality remains the foundation of the Berkshire breed. Compared to commodity pork, purebred Berkshire pigs produce chops, roasts and other pork cuts that are well marbled and consistently tender, juicy and highly palatable. Because of superior eating qualities, Berkshire pork receives a premium status. 
The National Barrow Show meat quality results confirm the premium position of the 100% pure Berkshire pork. Meat quality tests from 1990 &#8211; 1999 for the sensory quality among the eight major swine breeds are outlined in table 1. 









Ok, so there is the claim. Who made it? The National Barrow Show. Who is the National Barrow Show?
http://nationalswine.com/shows/open_shows/nbs/nbs_info.php

Hmmm, show run by the National Swine Registry. Who is that? From the "About" link on the site.

Mission Statement:
Lead the development and implementation of programs and services to enhance the value and influence of U.S. Duroc, Hampshire, Landrace, and Yorkshire swine within all segments of the global purebred industry through avenues of technology, genetic service and youth development. 

Ok, they represent 4 breeds of hogs. Notice *NONE* of them are Berkshire?

But you assert a national organization sponsored a rigged test in favor of a breed they do not represent, not for one year, but for an entire decade, and no one noticed but you? OK. I respectfully disagree, as do, apparently, many others who don't seem to be protesting the results.


----------



## gerold (Jul 18, 2011)

thericeguy said:


> Let's see where the data comes and from who and let everyone decide for themselves if it's a rigged contest as you claim.
> 
> Source: http://www.ipic.iastate.edu/information/Berkshire.Production.Marketing.Report.pdf
> 
> ...


I will have to disagree with you on this test and what they claim. I do protest their results. Do your own tests and you will see what i mean. Talk to other breeders who have done many test on pork on different feeds and on differ. breeds.


----------



## Gravytrain (Mar 2, 2013)

I raise berk/berk crosses as well as other breeds. I like berks. I like spots. I like large blacks... I avoid the lean style hogs. I raise mine on pasture with cheese/dairy supplementation. I can't tell the difference in taste between the different breeds/crossbreeds once they've made the cut. They are all really, REALLY good! I mostly select for 1. filling out quickly on a mostly pasture diet 2. workability/calmness 3. mothering ability (large weaning numbers and quality), as well as conformation and structure.

I like berks as much for their demeanor as anything else. Raise some different breeds and see if you can taste the difference when raised in the same manner. Choose the breed or composite that you or your customers prefer if you can tell the difference.


----------



## krackin (Nov 2, 2014)

I'll put my landrace X butts,chops and home cured bacon up against any challenger. I haven't a clue how to work it out at this time.


----------



## Itsroger (Aug 28, 2015)

krackin said:


> I'll put my landrace X butts,chops and home cured bacon up against any challenger. I haven't a clue how to work it out at this time.


OK, I'll volunteer to set it up for you. Send me the samples, (several pounds of each), and have all contestants do the same, and I'll gather a panel of judges\experts and let you know who's is best! :whistlin::spinsmiley:


----------



## FarmerRob (May 25, 2009)

thericeguy said:


> An exerpt from the American Berkshire Association.
> 
> The superior quality of Berkshire pork is well documented. In a summary of tests conducted over a 10-year span at the National Barrow Show in Austin, Minnesota, Berkshire pigs scored highest of all major American pure breeds in sensory quality. From various studies, including the Journal of Animal Science, Berkshire pork was ranked first in 19 of 22 quality measures in four important categories.
> 
> ...


At the link provided they use the phrase "all major American pure breeds" as you do here. In both cases there is no listing that I can find of what is included in "all major American pure breeds." 

My guess is that breeds like Large Black, GOS, Hereford, Mulefoot, Red Wattle, etc. are not in consideration. To truly have a valid result they (and several others) would need to be added to the comparison.


----------



## sang (Aug 23, 2013)

The breeds tested were Berkshire, Duroc, Chester White, Hampshire, Landrace, Poland China, Yorkshire, and Spot. Each breed is represented by several different individuals (several different breeders will have the same breed of hogs) that each have a group of barrows of a particular breed that are tested.
They can be fed to each breeders discretion. They are also tested for average daily gain, backfat, loin size, along with taste characteristics. 
A lot of people think what they have are best, when I started out I wanted pigs that would make the best dry cured hams, as far as flavor and tenderness. 
I raise on pasture with corn and soybean meal and mineral, with grain being the major component, started this way, and still continue to do it this way. Began with Yorkshire, have had Poland china, and red wattle, ended up with Berkshire. For the way I raise them they give me the best taste and tenderness of the ones I have had experience with.


----------



## highlands (Jul 18, 2004)

You missed my primary point. That isn't science because the controls aren't done properly between the groups. It's PR.

I raise multiple breeds and have had the opportunity to taste compare them in thousands of tests over the years with pigs raised the same way and controlling for age, breed, sex, season, feed etc. It isn't the breed that determines flavor, it's the feed. There is scientific research that also shows this. Breed is for other characteristics.

Feed for flavor.
Flavor is stored in the fat.
Calories, age, sex and breed determine intermuscular fat - marbling.
That's where the fat is stored.
But the flavor comes from the feed.

-Walter


----------



## sang (Aug 23, 2013)

Technically it is not, but within a decade you would think the breeders of the other breeds listed would be able to duplicate Berks if they were spending hundreds of dollars to provide a group for testing.


----------



## krackin (Nov 2, 2014)

Itsroger said:


> OK, I'll volunteer to set it up for you. Send me the samples, (several pounds of each), and have all contestants do the same, and I'll gather a panel of judges\experts and let you know who's is best! :whistlin::spinsmiley:


Some how I kind of figured I'd get set up like this, running my keyboard and all. Suits me though, we got to figure on reciprocation. You want several pounds, I'll take several. That and safe shipping. I'll take y'all on. Any more takers?


----------



## krackin (Nov 2, 2014)

I really have to go with Walt on this. 

You see it all the time in harvested whitetail, moose, turkey, grouse, duck, goose, etc. I didn't want to highlight chicken and beef but you know that sad story anyway.


----------



## Itsroger (Aug 28, 2015)

highlands said:


> You missed my primary point. That isn't science because the controls aren't done properly between the groups. It's PR.
> 
> I raise multiple breeds and have had the opportunity to taste compare them in thousands of tests over the years with pigs raised the same way and controlling for age, breed, sex, season, feed etc. It isn't the breed that determines flavor, it's the feed. There is scientific research that also shows this. Breed is for other characteristics.
> 
> ...


They claim that the Berkshires have the most marbling, so therefore maybe they have more flavor mixed throughout the meat?


----------



## gerold (Jul 18, 2011)

Itsroger said:


> They claim that the Berkshires have the most marbling, so therefore maybe they have more flavor mixed throughout the meat?


There are a lot of Berkshires around. They are being bred now to be more lean type hogs. 

Large black,Old spot, and a couple more have marbled meat also.

Mangalitsa is the hog with the most marbled meat.


----------



## highlands (Jul 18, 2004)

Itsroger said:


> They claim that the Berkshires have the most marbling, so therefore maybe they have more flavor mixed throughout the meat?


But the flavor is not coming from the breed. That is part of my point. They're being unscientific and doing PR. Better to stick with good science.

By the way, breed is only one of several factors that produce good marbling. Just to further confuse the issue.

-Walter


----------



## davidlewin (Mar 26, 2016)

the rice guy got banned for posting this message? really? 

REALLY?




thericeguy said:


> Let's see where the data comes and from who and let everyone decide for themselves if it's a rigged contest as you claim.
> 
> Source: http://www.ipic.iastate.edu/information/Berkshire.Production.Marketing.Report.pdf
> 
> ...


----------



## krackin (Nov 2, 2014)

A few years back it was the Large Black that had the best of all traits, anyone remember that? I do, did a little research and weaners were $250 and up. The next year I was asked how many I could take at $60. None, city doode, ever.


----------



## Gravytrain (Mar 2, 2013)

krackin said:


> A few years back it was the Large Black that had the best of all traits, anyone remember that? I do, did a little research and weaners were $250 and up. The next year I was asked how many I could take at $60. None, city doode, ever.


I don't recall anyone or any group saying large blacks had the best of all traits. Certainly most lines don't have large litters, they are relatively slow growing, etc... but they DO marble nicely and can do so on minimal inputs.


----------



## krackin (Nov 2, 2014)

Gravytrain said:


> I don't recall anyone or any group saying large blacks had the best of all traits. Certainly most lines don't have large litters, they are relatively slow growing, etc... but they DO marble nicely and can do so on minimal inputs.


I have nothing against the breed at all, I wanted to try them. There is a bit more to my experience but not for here. I just didn't like anyone thinking they could gouge me. Not hardly. 

I'd gladly try a couple but I have no idea where to get them now.


----------



## cmcpherson (Nov 15, 2010)

highlands said:


> Raise to marbled age.
> -Walter


What is that age. What does it depend on?


----------



## cmcpherson (Nov 15, 2010)

highlands said:


> Feed for flavor.
> Flavor is stored in the fat.
> Calories, age, sex and breed determine intermuscular fat - marbling.
> That's where the fat is stored.
> ...


I fundamentally agree with your whole take on this topic. 
I've been a judge at too many BBQ comps to believe that taste can be quantified scientifically.

BUT... if the intermuscular fat is where flavor is stored, and that fat is determined by attributes other than feed, would that mean that breed does have an appreciable factor in flavor?

To the degree that feed does determines fat, is it really just calories that matter?

I say this realizing that my ability to maximize feed quality is the weak link in the whole flavor profile thing.


----------



## krackin (Nov 2, 2014)

I really like a corn finish, gilts, 400 lb. range. I say that because that is my personal experience. With my schedule that is about 1 year old. Barrows size up faster, maybe 3 months earlier, but it isn't the same at all. I'd rather have a customer try a slightly older gilt than a barrow for quality. I'm not going with barrows for myself anymore and all my customers this season are in for gilts.


----------



## gerold (Jul 18, 2011)

krackin said:


> I really like a corn finish, gilts, 400 lb. range. I say that because that is my personal experience. With my schedule that is about 1 year old. Barrows size up faster, maybe 3 months earlier, but it isn't the same at all. I'd rather have a customer try a slightly older gilt than a barrow for quality. I'm not going with barrows for myself anymore and all my customers this season are in for gilts.


Had to beat a corn fatten 400 lb. Gilt. Very best in favor.


----------



## krackin (Nov 2, 2014)

gerold said:


> Had to beat a corn fatten 400 lb. Gilt. Very best in favor.


Pretty hard to beat that 3" bacon strip and actually tender hams.


----------



## highlands (Jul 18, 2004)

cmcpherson said:


> I fundamentally agree with your whole take on this topic.
> I've been a judge at too many BBQ comps to believe that taste can be quantified scientifically.
> 
> BUT... if the intermuscular fat is where flavor is stored, and that fat is determined by attributes other than feed, would that mean that breed does have an appreciable factor in flavor?
> ...


Feed is one thing that affects marbling.
Breed is another thing that affects marbling.
Even environment (temperature) has an effect.
Age is a big issue.

Stack the deck in your favor with the resources you have.

That said, breed does not control the flavor. The flavor of the fat is controlled by what the animal ate. So if you take a high marbling breed like Large Black or Berkshire and you feed them a lot of fish during finishing you'll get awful tasting pork.

Feed for flavor.

-Walter


----------



## cmcpherson (Nov 15, 2010)

krackin said:


> I really like a corn finish, gilts, 400 lb. range.


Is there a "beginning" to the finishing stage?
Does a person plan to add a predetermined amount of weight while in the finishing stage?
I want to finish on acorns during Sept.-Oct.


----------



## Empire (Jan 7, 2016)

I just started to finish my 2 hogs today. I aim for a live weight of 225-250 when butcher time comes. They weigh 160 and 184 right now.


----------



## cmcpherson (Nov 15, 2010)

Empire said:


> I just started to finish my 2 hogs today. I aim for a live weight of 225-250 when butcher time comes. They weigh 160 and 184 right now.


Okay... so finishing time would typically be a weight gain of ~50-100 lbs.?


----------



## sang (Aug 23, 2013)

highlands said:


> Feed is one thing that affects marbling.
> Breed is another thing that affects marbling.
> Even environment (temperature) has an effect.
> Age is a big issue.
> ...


So if you feed a Berkshire or Large Black a diet of fish, would you get worse tasting pork than a commercial breed fed a diet of fish since the Berks would have more marbled fat with a fishy taste, if so then if fed flavor enhancing, acorns, apples, corn etc. would a highly marbled Berk or Large Black taste better than a commercial breed fed a similar diet, with other factors being equal.


----------



## highlands (Jul 18, 2004)

Yes. Feed is the source of the flavor and flavor is stored in the fat. Feed for flavor.

-Walter


----------



## gerold (Jul 18, 2011)

sang said:


> So if you feed a Berkshire or Large Black a diet of fish, would you get worse tasting pork than a commercial breed fed a diet of fish since the Berks would have more marbled fat with a fishy taste, if so then if fed flavor enhancing, acorns, apples, corn etc. would a highly marbled Berk or Large Black taste better than a commercial breed fed a similar diet, with other factors being equal.


What other factors being equal? Hogs raised on pasture have a different diet then hogs raise Commercial. Factory hogs are fed different types of feed to keep them healthy from being in a confined space. Just trying to fine out what your question is. 

I have been to 4 different pig factories, The smell is really bad. The air is bad from to many hogs in one big space all cramped together. Same with some big cattle operations where the cows are in to small a space.


----------



## krackin (Nov 2, 2014)

cmcpherson said:


> Is there a "beginning" to the finishing stage?
> Does a person plan to add a predetermined amount of weight while in the finishing stage?
> I want to finish on acorns during Sept.-Oct.


I start finishing feed in Aug for most feeders going out in Nov into Dec for most of my customers. That maybe early but that is when I have finish feed on the farm. I finish with a lot of sweet corn and it best go to hogs than wildlife although it is a race. I get at least a 10% crop loss to wildlife, just part of it and plan on it. By Nov it is pretty much harvested, lodged badly or ravaged by deer and bear when they get lucky, sometimes they don't get so lucky. I can store some corn for my own use to a degree for later hogs, or I can get field corn. I think field corn is more practical at that point.

With my schedule, I will gain at least 2 lb. per a day, more likely 2.5 to 3 lbs. I start with 8 to 10 week old feeders at the end of April or so.

I haven't done acorn finish yet. I can, I will. What I would do is pick the stock to go to processing in Nov and turn them in during drop. Drop here can be mid Aug through Oct, with a lot of feed competition from wildlife. White oaks get cleaned up first, then red.


----------



## cmcpherson (Nov 15, 2010)

Lots of great info... thanks.



krackin said:


> I start finishing feed in Aug for most feeders going out in Nov into Dec for most of my customers.


4 months of finishing! 
Will my measly 2 months of acorns even make a difference?
Should I start finishing earlier even before acorns drop. start with corn then switch to acorns maybe?



krackin said:


> With my schedule, I will gain at least 2 lb. per a day, more likely 2.5 to 3 lbs. I start with 8 to 10 week old feeders at the end of April or so.


April to Nov. = 244 days. So your adding 488 to 732 lbs.?
I must be misunderstanding something.
Besides that, I'm curious anyway what your schedule is.



krackin said:


> What I would do is pick the stock to go to processing in Nov *and turn them in during drop*. *Drop here can be mid Aug through Oct*, with a lot of feed competition from wildlife. White oaks get cleaned up first, then red.


What do you mean "turn them in"
By "drop" you mean acorn drop right?

It sounds as though I might be trying to follow your same basic time plan:
Purchase shoat size feeders in April, finish them Sept.-Oct. and harvest in Nov. at 250-300 lbs. Am I even in the ball park?


----------



## krackin (Nov 2, 2014)

I get that weight gain from the end of July-ish to processing. I try to go for 16% protein minimum into Oct. That involves crop propagation and management practices. I won't go into that. 

It could be taken as 4 months of finishing I suppose, but that is what I have as feed on my farm. I'm most certainly not saying that is the way to go, that is what I have available. A lot of growers here have grass pasture, my grass is tall stalk grass known as sweet corn. That is what I do, that is what I have. Should a hog or two go early, they also have the same finish as the older ones to a degree which is a future sales point. 2 months out is when I give heavy finish. I expect 1 month would be OK if that is the time frame one would have. 

Yes, drop is just that. I use electric fence to keep what I want in and what I want out, out. It isn't perfect but pretty good and fairly easy to work with. I give a section of fenced in area as it is ready for animals, or 'turn them in' . I don't mean I actually do any tillage, they do their own pretty well.

You are pretty much on my target weights. I average 300# mid to late Nov. That isn't a given but then again not much is.


----------



## cmcpherson (Nov 15, 2010)

Good info... thanks.


----------

