# Please tell me what you think of my mare!



## Pallyshire (Apr 19, 2013)

Before I purchased her she was pregnant and starved. After two months of supplements, four feedings a day, and some exercising she as come a long way. Please let me know what you think of her. She does have a high lumbar vertebrae but it doesn't seem to bother her. She is very sweet on the ground and in saddle so I think I did pretty well for my second trail horse. My first was a mess. 

This is her before I bought her



About two weeks





This is after 37 days


These were yesterday


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## wr (Aug 10, 2003)

She looks to be in good flesh and if she works for you as a trail horse, that's all that really matters.


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## Farmerjonathan (Mar 11, 2013)

Good looking mare. You are riding her as she gains weight I hope. When I was a kid my sister fell in love with a half starved paint gelding. Got him home, she got him looking slick and found out she couldn't handle him. Boy he could run! I enjoyed the heck out of him but he could be a handful at times.


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## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

You've done a wonderful job with her.  

I think she may have hunter's bump. From what I've read it isn't usually an issue once it's solidified and it seems to have already. I have no hands on experience tho.


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## Pallyshire (Apr 19, 2013)

wr said:


> She looks to be in good flesh and if she works for you as a trail horse, that's all that really matters.


I'm trying to learn. I have realized both times I went to look at horses I knew very little about conformation to ensure I didn't get a possible problem horse. This mare will have her last home with me providing I still have the money to care for her.

Farmerjonathan- Yes definitely! In the beginning I was worried her slow pace was just from being starved.. However, She has kept her slow gentle behavior which is what I was looking for. My last mare was no fun to ride. I just started trotting her recently though because I wanted to make sure her muscles were ready. She is my first project. 

Irish Pixie- I asked my vet about the hunters bump and he thinks its just a confirmation issue of the lumbar region or an injury when they began riding her. She was used as a pack horse at a young age. She has never been shown, which I know doesn't mean it's not hunter bump. From what I researched it could be. I haven't heard of it being solidified? I found some therapy exercises I'm planning on starting once I get her in better shape.


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## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

I should have explained the process better, hunter's bump doesn't usually cause a problem after the injury has healed or fused. 

She may not have hunter's bump, it's just a guess from the pictures.


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## Molly Mckee (Jul 8, 2006)

You've done a good job putting weight on her and getting her healthy! She looks like a totally different horse!


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## Pallyshire (Apr 19, 2013)

Irish Pixie said:


> I should have explained the process better, hunter's bump doesn't usually cause a problem after the injury has healed or fused.
> 
> She may not have hunter's bump, it's just a guess from the pictures.


Oh ok!! I thought that's what you might have meant after I reread it! I was reading last night that once it heals you can reinjure it. But the exercises can strengthen the area so it won't be as easy. I kind of want to have a vet x-ray her but it's really expensive. Also since she shows no pain it might be wasting money.


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## wr (Aug 10, 2003)

Pallyshire, the last time I commented on a filly with poor conformation being considered as a show prospect, I was heavily reprimanded for being a big meanie and picking on a member and the filly so I'm afraid it would be best if I leave comments on conformation to others, who don't seem to be held to the same standard.


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## CraterCove (Jan 24, 2011)

wr said:


> Pallyshire, the last time I commented on a filly with poor conformation being considered as a show prospect, I was heavily reprimanded for being a big meanie and picking on a member and the filly so I'm afraid it would be best if I leave comments on conformation to others, who don't seem to be held to the same standard.


That seems crazy. I'd rather know my animal's low points _before_ going out in front of people. And I am not too proud to say I can be herd blind with my goats. I love them but sometimes need an outside eye to keep me honest. It gives off the feel of when someone who wants to hear they are attractive posting pics on Facebook titling them 'I'm so ugly!' Don't ask questions you don't want to hear the answers to.

Plus, a horse, just like a person can be beautiful without being pageant quality. This mare looks like she's been given a lot of love and care and should be a fine companion and trail horse, in my opinion.


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## GrannyCarol (Mar 23, 2005)

While the bump in her back is an issue I don't know anything about, otherwise, now that you've gotten her in such good shape, I think she's quite attractive. Even her bump isn't so obvious. You've done a great job in conditioning her, now you should be able to enjoy riding her. I wouldn't put her in conformation competition because of her hump, but I don't think it will be a big problem as long as you are considerate of her.


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## Horseyrider (Aug 8, 2010)

That's not a hunter's bump. A hunter's bump takes place when the bursa of the sacral-ileus joint has a bit of a blowout, and it tends to happen with hunters or jumpers who make the big effort over a colossal fence. This is instead further up in the lumbar area, and while it looks troubling, she may be serviceably sound with it for the kind of work you want her to do. I would encourage you to use a tempurpedic type pad like an Equipedic under a western saddle, or use a bareback pad that doesn't go back that far. Saddle fit with western saddles is going to be problematic; most will bridge her topline between the withers and this bump, causing rubs on one or the other, or both. Some English saddles might work, if they stay clear of that area.

She was definitely lacking in condition in the first pic, and your hard work is evidenced in the beautiful balance of her hindquarters in the last. There are lots of things we could change (a more refined head, a neck that ties in higher in the chest) to make her more picture perfect, but for trail, pretty is as pretty does. I'd rather ride a sound sane animal that's calm and relaxed on trail than the most physically perfect specimen.

I would pay close attention though, to how she does steep hills. There may be some compression on the bottom part of the vertebrae that stand up, or some "kissing spines" on either side of it where it retreats back to the normal line. I'd also be paying attention to her stance. She seems to point her front feet a bit, which may mean sore heels. Her rear legs would stand a bit camped under if she was experiencing subclinical lameness in her loin area, and she isn't doing that at all. 

All in all though, I think you've done a fabulous job with her. I like the definition of muscle in her shoulders, her volume in the rearhand, and the pleasant peaceful expression on her face that tells me she likes her new home. Well done!


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## Pallyshire (Apr 19, 2013)

wr I understand  but honestly I agree with the poster that said if you don't want to hear the answers don't ask the question. I asked solely on learning. Some people can't learn without being offended. So if you want to you can. If not I understand. She wasn't the prettiest horse when I bought her and honestly I wasn't expecting her to be as good as she is even with her faults. Plus it's not like I can rebuild her if I don't like something. 

Horseyrider I don't really get into showing. It's not my thing and I don't expect it to be my horses thing. I did notice she points her toes but I didn't know that was from sore heels. How can I get them to not be sore? She was trimmed about 5 weeks ago. First time in over a year. Her hooves were actually curled up under her foot. In the first picture her feet looked fine but when you lifted her hoof it looked like a dog with it's nails curling up into it's foot.. 

As far as saddle fit I've been using an Abetta western saddle but I plan to get one fit to her. Also I have been looking for special blankets that will contour to her. They are pricey so I am saving up. Right now we are doing short work outs until I can get her setup with her own stuff. Then we will do longer rides. 

Does anyone know about the shoulder angle. I think I will always be confused with the angles. Too me she is off from 45 degrees but I'm not sure if I'm measuring it right.. I was told if it wasn't 45 degrees then she would have a choppy trot but it actually feels pretty smooth and easy to post compared to some I've rode. 

In the back of my mind I knew the bump in her lumbar region would possibly be a problem in the future. It didn't look like any horse skeleton I've ever seen. The vet says it should be fine as long as she is showing no pain. Hopefully I will get a long riding life out of her with maintenance and conditioning. I have an old timer as her pasture mate that can be ridden for short hauls. He is pretty much retired. I just ride him enough to keep his muscles worked. If I end up with two retirees then I guess I won't be riding for awhile.  Lucky they will stand for hours in the pasture just letting me brush them. No halters or anything. 

Thanks everyone so far for the comments. I really am excited that she looks better than when I first bought her. I told myself I wasn't going to go for the prettiest horse again. Last time didn't end too well and I ended up selling the mare to someone more experienced. She just liked to test the entire time you were on her, But I loved her buckskin coloring. This one fits much better with my old timer too. She isn't pushy and they have really become best friends.


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## Pallyshire (Apr 19, 2013)

CraterCove said:


> That seems crazy. I'd rather know my animal's low points _before_ going out in front of people. And I am not too proud to say I can be herd blind with my goats. I love them but sometimes need an outside eye to keep me honest. It gives off the feel of when someone who wants to hear they are attractive posting pics on Facebook titling them 'I'm so ugly!' Don't ask questions you don't want to hear the answers to.
> 
> Plus, a horse, just like a person can be beautiful without being pageant quality. This mare looks like she's been given a lot of love and care and should be a fine companion and trail horse, in my opinion.



True story! Honestly I thought she was super ugly when I bought her!  But her temperament in saddle and on the ground is Gold! Also I think she is much prettier now with some weight on her. I may be heard blind as well. All my animals are pretty to me. 

I once had a dog I rescued from the shelter when she was 15. Her owner died and she ended up there because no family wanted her. Well this dog looked like a badger rat mix that was run over by a train! She was the ugliest dog ever but she was sweet and I was able to give her a god home for the last year she was here. On walks people would be like "oh...She is ..cute!." In my mind I was like. "haha no she isn't." but she enjoys the compliments anyways so I let them lie.  Towards the end I didn't think she was ugly anymore. I guess after a year I got use to her. 

Have you ever posted a picture you liked a lot! Then 5-10 years later looked at it and was like why did I like that picture!! haha I have a few of those! Outside opinions are good and it doesn't make you feel any different about the animal. Especially if their personality shows through.


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## Horseyrider (Aug 8, 2010)

Pallyshire said:


> Horseyrider I don't really get into showing. It's not my thing and I don't expect it to be my horses thing. I did notice she points her toes but I didn't know that was from sore heels. How can I get them to not be sore? She was trimmed about 5 weeks ago. First time in over a year. Her hooves were actually curled up under her foot. In the first picture her feet looked fine but when you lifted her hoof it looked like a dog with it's nails curling up into it's foot..


The first thing to do is to find out if she's actually sore in the heels. That would be easiest and cheapest if you have a good farrier coming every six to eight weeks. You can ask him to put the hoof testers on her. Hoof testers are a large caliper looking device that is used to press hard on different parts of the foot. He can squeeze between the heels, each individual branch of the heel, and the navicular area. If you find the mare's flinchy, then it'd be time to call the vet for a diagnosis. It could easily be she's sore from having such overgrown feet as you describe. Any change, even for the better, after that much neglect, can leave them sore. The farrier may not be done with the corrections to normalize her feet, and it might just be a matter of more time. Or there could be serious issues going on inside. The hoof testers would be the best first step, and virtually every farrier will do it for no additional cost.



> As far as saddle fit I've been using an Abetta western saddle but I plan to get one fit to her. Also I have been looking for special blankets that will contour to her. They are pricey so I am saving up. Right now we are doing short work outs until I can get her setup with her own stuff. Then we will do longer rides.


An Abetta is often considered a cheap saddle, but the best saddle is the one that fits. As you know, you can buy cheap shoes that fit and feel great, and expensive shoes that can make your whole day a misery. Proper fit is extremely important. If you can, it'd be great to get someone experienced in proper fitting to help you. The one you already have may be the best choice. Abettas tend to have a shorter tree, which may work for her.



> Does anyone know about the shoulder angle. I think I will always be confused with the angles. Too me she is off from 45 degrees but I'm not sure if I'm measuring it right.. I was told if it wasn't 45 degrees then she would have a choppy trot but it actually feels pretty smooth and easy to post compared to some I've rode.


Her shoulder looks steeper than what's probably desirable, but the angle between her scapula (shoulder blade) and humerus (sort of analogous to our upper arm bone, up in her chest) is reasonably open. That contributes to shock absorption, so the ride might feel fine; but the more upright shoulders tend to limit the amount of reach and length of stride available. Yet for the kind of pleasure riding you intend to do, it should be no big issue.



> In the back of my mind I knew the bump in her lumbar region would possibly be a problem in the future. It didn't look like any horse skeleton I've ever seen. The vet says it should be fine as long as she is showing no pain. Hopefully I will get a long riding life out of her with maintenance and conditioning.


You're right; it may be a problem. Or it might not. Horses can have scoliosis, same as people. Many folks have mild scoliosis and live long, productive, happy lives with it. At this point, I'm more concerned about her heels than her back; and her heels may simply be something she has to get through as her feet are normalized.

Thanks for sharing your mare with us. It's rewarding to see someone take such good care of such a horse.


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## Pallyshire (Apr 19, 2013)

I will call my farrier in the morning. She doesn't limp so I didn't realize she might be sore. 

I have a lady coming out to measure her in a week. She thinks she can stay with the saddle I have too but I want to make sure. She measures for a company that makes custom saddles. Honestly it would be nice not to pay $800+ for a new saddle! 

Can they test horses for scoliosis? That makes a lot of sense about the shoulder. She has a nice trot. I can't wait to try her at a lope. I'm going to give her a little longer to make sure she is sound. I'm so worried about pushing her too hard in case her back and leg muscles are still weak. Plus getting her heels checked. 

Thanks for the information you've been very informative.


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## jennigrey (Jan 27, 2005)

I've always called that a "roached back". Not a terrible one, though. Looks like a nice red mare - good job on bringing her back.


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## jennigrey (Jan 27, 2005)

Aside from pain and saddling issues, another thing to keep an eye out for is interference. A horse with a roached back is more likely to over-reach and clip a front heel with a back toe. When/if you move up to loping, check her front heel bulbs frequently for cuts and scrapes that would indicate interference.


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## brody (Feb 19, 2009)

if it was her first trim in over a year you are fine to wait til he's out again in 6 weeks ... just being trimmed can make them quite sore sometimes 
looks like you guys will have fun together


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## GreenMomma (Jun 3, 2008)

Awesome job on the weight gain and shiny coat! She looks so much better!! You might also try some body work to see if her body can be balanced out soft tissue-wise. If you can find a Bowen therapist or a good cranio-sacral therapist you might get her pelvis and her entire skeletal system closer to what it ought to be and more comfortable over all. That would go a long way in helping the way her confirmation looks as well. (Before and after photos would be very cool from that as well!)


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