# Barking complaint



## alidbond (May 30, 2014)

Hi all: 

I live on 7.5 acres and have 2 Pyrenees LGDs. They are brothers, Roma and Bosco, and 3 years old. Roma had to have knee surgery, and I have to keep him separated from Bosco for 6 more weeks while he heals. Roma is currently sleeping in the house and Bosco has night duty on his own.

Apparently Bosco is afraid of the dark. He barks ALL night. I was hoping he'd adjust, but he hasn't. Got a visit from Animal Control yesterday because a neighbor complained about the barking. I took them some eggs and honey and apologized.

So, any suggestions on what to do? I can't keep him the garage every night. He's supposed to be keeping the riff raff out of the yard. I don't want to get a bark collar because he's only doing his job. 

Thoughts?

Alison


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## SJSFarm (Jun 13, 2012)

I trained mine on a spotlight. I have a small property, all flat open farm land, so no barriers. When he would bark, I'd let him go until the bark changed from a 'what's going on", "or get out of here" to a "that's right, just keep moving" and then turn the light on. I'd flash it twice and he got the point and went back to the barn to the goats.


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## Maura (Jun 6, 2004)

I like your training, SJS. 

How much riff raft is in the yard at this time of year? Maybe you could bring the other critters in the barn, if you have one.


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## alidbond (May 30, 2014)

Foxes right now. I don't have a barn.


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## haypoint (Oct 4, 2006)

An apology has three parts. You say you are sorry. You pay for damages. You make sure it doesn't happen again.
I'll guess you said you were sorry. I'll guess that the peace offerings were wanted and something they'd feel safe to eat. The hard part is making sure it never happens again.
Two large barking dogs on 7 acres is going to be a constant problem.


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## farmrbrown (Jun 25, 2012)

haypoint said:


> An apology has three parts. You say you are sorry. You pay for damages. You make sure it doesn't happen again.
> I'll guess you said you were sorry. I'll guess that the peace offerings were wanted and something they'd feel safe to eat. The hard part is making sure it never happens again.
> Two large barking dogs on 7 acres is going to be a constant problem.


Yeah.
But there is also such a thing as taking important matters to the police and handling things amongst yourselves.
The last time a neighbor called the law on my wife a sign went up by our group of mailboxes, erected on MY property.
Two old ladies getting in a little scrap is no reason to call the law.
A barking dog is even MORE trivial.
Maybe you missed the part that one dog had knee surgery and is down for 6 weeks.
TEMPORARY problem, NOT constant.

I happen to realize that good guard dog is worth their weight in gold.

The sign stayed up until they returned to their real home in SC for the winter.
It said:
Next time, may be the last time.


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## Ross (May 9, 2002)

Its a limitation of LGDs When you have problems you have no protection. Doubt you can train barking out of a Pyr easily, its kinda what they do. I would drag him in at night and nip this in the bud. You've been lucky not to have both dogs barking all night and you don't need the one teaching the other when it returns! Get your stock into some kind of containment for night shine lights and play a radio softly near them. Mix it up day to day too. Coyotes case a joint like a thief, you can make them wary. Good luck!!


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## alidbond (May 30, 2014)

Update: So Bosco has been sleeping in the garage. My bedroom window faces the poultry coop. I can hear the geese making their warning calls all night. Without the dog on patrol I'm worried about a visit from a fox or raccoon. So, my neighbor might be sleeping better, but I'm not.


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## mmoetc (Oct 9, 2012)

alidbond said:


> Update: So Bosco has been sleeping in the garage. My bedroom window faces the poultry coop. I can hear the geese making their warning calls all night. Without the dog on patrol I'm worried about a visit from a fox or raccoon. So, my neighbor might be sleeping better, but I'm not.


Your right to a good nights sleep ends where the steps you take to assure it impact your neighbors right to his sleep.


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## haypoint (Oct 4, 2006)

Sounds like you aren't really getting this. Neighbors disturbed sleep is not trivial. Neighbors are under no obligation to confront you about this violation. They are carefully, lawfully setting up the solution to their problem. First step is Animal Control. Might be good for them to tape record your dog barking. It is called getting your ducks in a row.

When both dogs are out they don't bark? That is amazing.

You live in a community that harbors animosities. Your dismissive attitude exacerbates it.


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## haypoint (Oct 4, 2006)

farmrbrown said:


> Yeah.
> But there is also such a thing as taking important matters to the police and handling things amongst yourselves.
> The last time a neighbor called the law on my wife a sign went up by our group of mailboxes, erected on MY property.
> Two old ladies getting in a little scrap is no reason to call the law.
> ...


"Next time may be the last time" is a threat. Anything that happens, you've set yourself up to be the perpetrator.
A LGD might be golden to you. But with close neighbors, shutting the coop door at night
makes more sense.


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## Maura (Jun 6, 2004)

I always had my birds behind electric fencing at night. Best protection there is.


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## farmrbrown (Jun 25, 2012)

haypoint said:


> "Next time may be the last time" is a threat. Anything that happens, you've set yourself up to be the perpetrator.
> A LGD might be golden to you. But with close neighbors, shutting the coop door at night
> makes more sense.


People soon realize this about me.
I don't make threats.
I make promises and I've been on this earth long enough to know how to handle my business.
Haven't heard a peep out of them and it's been nice and peaceful ever since.
The common sense thing goes both ways.
If the dog barking is only a temporary inconvenience (6 weeks) it makes sense to stop by and talk about it instead of calling the dad-blamed law on them.
The outside light idea or spotlight, makes more sense than anything else that won't actually train the dog's barking.
But if people are averse to the idea of common sense, then hopefully they can read the signs..........


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## haypoint (Oct 4, 2006)

farmrbrown said:


> People soon realize this about me.
> I don't make threats.
> I make promises and I've been on this earth long enough to know how to handle my business.
> Haven't heard a peep out of them and it's been nice and peaceful ever since.
> ...


That works as long as you are the biggest bully in the neighbor hood. But it ends up being like the fastest bgun in the west. There is always someone faster or more ruthless. It is great fun to sit at a keyboard and expound how tough you are. I'm sure there are plenty of civil communities that simply avoid you. I am familiar with neighborhoods that would eat you alive. Shooting your dog or poison is easier than calling the Cops. In these communities, push leads to shove. Enjoy your status as the neighborhood kook and pray they don't have the time to escalate this.


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## farmrbrown (Jun 25, 2012)

I've never understood the mentality of people who would resort to such tactics rather than handle a simple problem with a direct approach.
Unless it was a life or property threatening situation, I can't see how calling the law or killing a pet is anything BUT an escalation.
It certainly doesn't meet my definition of civility.
I guess a "bully" is in the eye of the beholder.


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## JJ Grandits (Nov 10, 2002)

Six weeks is five weeks, six days and 23 hours to long. I know dogs bark. But barking all night is right over the edge and then some. For those of us who get up way before dawn to go to work, a barking dog is not a little inconvenience.
Put a bark collar on it or bring it in the house. Your dog, your responsibility.


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## haypoint (Oct 4, 2006)

farmrbrown said:


> I've never understood the mentality of people who would resort to such tactics rather than handle a simple problem with a direct approach.
> Unless it was a life or property threatening situation, I can't see how calling the law or killing a pet is anything BUT an escalation.
> It certainly doesn't meet my definition of civility.
> I guess a "bully" is in the eye of the beholder.


Let me try to help you understand. If I were your neighbor and your dog had kept me up, night after night, I would feel attacked by you. Since it is known that you escalated a situation with a threatening sign, I might not want to confront you with my complaint. I pay taxes to have people do the tough job of confronting people like you. You want a more direct approach. But you don't get to choose how I decide to resolve the problem you started. Complaining to Animal Control is not "resort to tactics". If you stop the problem, then this simple problem is resolved. If you ignore it, there is an official report of your refusal. If you decide to be a bully, then the official record can be used as motive.
Most people do not want to lose. Likely, whatever happened to provoke you to post that threatening sign, was something that made you feel they got over on you or your family. You escalated it with the sign. Their reply was to ignore you. There are a thousand ways they could have taken to show you they will not be threatened and make you feel threatened. Shooting out a truck windshield, herbicide your garden, nails in driveway, etc.
Be glad they chose a legal method to quiet your dog. Sounds like they want it resolved without anyone taking it into their own hands.

I'm not sure you understand that you did wrong. That makes the solution harder. Neighbors are under no obligation to be understanding of your barking dog, none.


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## farmrbrown (Jun 25, 2012)

haypoint said:


> Let me try to help you understand. If I were your neighbor and your dog had kept me up, night after night, I would feel attacked by you. Since it is known that you escalated a situation with a threatening sign, I might not want to confront you with my complaint. I pay taxes to have people do the tough job of confronting people like you. You want a more direct approach. But you don't get to choose how I decide to resolve the problem you started. Complaining to Animal Control is not "resort to tactics". If you stop the problem, then this simple problem is resolved. If you ignore it, there is an official report of your refusal. If you decide to be a bully, then the official record can be used as motive.
> Most people do not want to lose. Likely, whatever happened to provoke you to post that threatening sign, was something that made you feel they got over on you or your family. You escalated it with the sign. Their reply was to ignore you. There are a thousand ways they could have taken to show you they will not be threatened and make you feel threatened. Shooting out a truck windshield, herbicide your garden, nails in driveway, etc.
> Be glad they chose a legal method to quiet your dog. Sounds like they want it resolved without anyone taking it into their own hands.
> 
> I'm not sure you understand that you did wrong. That makes the solution harder. Neighbors are under no obligation to be understanding of your barking dog, none.




My dog doesn't bark, in case you missed what the incident was in my particular situation.
Actually, that's not entirely true. I think I've heard him 3 times in the year that I've had him. Twice at a stranger walking in the woods behind the house and once at a squirrel. He's a pretty good guard dog and even though he's got a sweet disposition I feel confident in his job of protector.



> Two old ladies getting in a little scrap is no reason to call the law.


That was my quote above, referring to the incident where a deputy showed up, telling my wife that she could have been arrested after a little altercation with one of the neighbors who come up here for the summer.
It DID get a little outta hand, but I'm the usually the one with the temper, not my wife, so I knew who the instigator was.

I do understand what you're saying about how people are - they don't like to lose.
What I don't understand is not being able to accept that life isn't a bowl of cherries all the time and going to extremes to hurt someone in a serious way because of life's inconveniences and annoyances or because someone got their pride hurt.

I've worked about half my life on a shift other than 9 to 5, so I know how important it is to be able to sleep.
It can be a really BIG inconvenience sometimes.
And if it's an easy problem to address and fix........and they just wanna be a jerk about, that's completely different.
It sounds like in the OP's case, she handled it in a few days along with a sincere apology. It also sounds like her neighbor could have gotten the same result WITHOUT calling animal control, which was precisely my point.
It should also be noted that being without both of her guard dogs while foxes and other predators are after her poultry is an equally serious inconvenience as well, and obviously not normal or intentional.

OTOH when my wife tried to handle a minor inconvenience caused by the neighbor, patiently and politely, she was rewarded with a middle finger and some cursing. At that point she set the woman straight and went back home, which SHOULD have ended it.
But when you bring the law into something without good cause, expect the Big Dog to meet you at the door.
And just like my big boy, I may bark once or twice, but that's about all the warning there's gonna be.


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## haypoint (Oct 4, 2006)

OK, I missed that altogether, these two Livestock Guard Dogs rarely if ever bark. Your claim is rare. I hear folks on here all the time explaining that constant barking is what keeps predators away. Sounds amazing.

What you call a “little scrape” involved the Cops. You think it was an over-reaction, while the Cops explained that she could have been arrested. That sounds physical. Fro9m your version, it was your wife that the Cops threatened to arrest. Earlier, you said you added the finishing touches on this cat fight with your “Next Time, last time” sign that had to see every day. That isn’t “let bygones be bygones”, that is being a jerk. You weren’t there, so you don’t know who the instigator was. But you don’t seem to want to blame a family member. Rationalization.

Having your neighbor haul home couple big dogs and then night after night of barking isn’t bowl of cherries, it is a major PITA. With the law behind them, they figure they are in the right and your feelings got hurt because the Cops embarrassed you.

From 1969 to 1977, I worked midnight shift and afternoons making window airconditioners or stamping out automobile car parts. Next I worked in several prisons, 18 years on afternoon shift, no holidays off, few weekends off. I worked thousands of hours of overtime. Sleeping all different hours. Then 9 years on day shift. Next another job on afternoon, Wednesday to Wednesday, then off 7 days. The main part of most of my working life has been communicating with people, resolving differences.

You said you are the hot head, not your wife, yet the neighbor’s know you both are easy to rile. If I were your neighbor, I’m not going to risk an argument with you over that dog’s barking. Far easier to get the County expert to get your attention. Plus the record is established.

If you are able to afford, feed, vaccinate, vet two large guard dogs, you can afford to close up your poultry. Right?

Your last sentence shows that you are the type that when you can either shut up and walk off, your ego has you on their porch running your lips, making obscure threats.

The threat, “ one bark, that’s the only warning you’ll get” makes me think I’m about to be assaulted. If I think I can, I’ll put a boot in your gut. If I don’t think I tke you, I’ll call the Cops. The version:” wife tried to handle a minor inconvenience caused by the neighbor, patiently and politely, she was rewarded with a middle finger and some cursing. At that point she set the woman straight and went back home, which SHOULD have ended it.” I’d love to hear the other side to this story, the one here makes little sense.


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## Martlet (Apr 20, 2015)

farmrbrown said:


> My dog doesn't bark, in case you missed what the incident was in my particular situation.
> Actually, that's not entirely true. I think I've heard him 3 times in the year that I've had him. Twice at a stranger walking in the woods behind the house and once at a squirrel. He's a pretty good guard dog and even though he's got a sweet disposition I feel confident in his job of protector.
> 
> 
> ...


Would it be nice if neighbors handled their business privately? Of course. Is it a requirement? Absolutely not. Calling the police is completely within their rights, PARTICULARLY if it was already a spat and the wife had a bully hot head husband at home. I can absolutely see why someone would call the cops to intervene. It's safer for ALL parties that way, and probably the best way they could have handled it.

I love my extremely rural community. Most of us get along fine and do solve what few issues come up privately. There is also a family that the other farms typically allow the sheriff deal with. Nobody is particularly scared of him, but he escalates easily. Most of us get along with him fine, though. 

That said, is is a VERY small farming community. If someone was threatening or putting signs on mail boxes, the cops wouldn't be called at all. It would stop, though. Police are used when people want to be civil. Threats and bullying removes the desire for civility on the mountain. Most of us just want to get along and have a healthy community.


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## farmrbrown (Jun 25, 2012)

Different strokes for different folks, I guess.
My friends and family have always been rural, country folks, whatever you want to call it.
We were raised that calling the law is the last resort and if it's done unnecessarily, it wasn't a sign of that neighbors were trying to be "civil".

My wife was within her rights to call the cops when it started, but she knew better and I would not have been on her side had she done so. But being in the right and handling it privately, I had her back 100%, always will.


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## GTX63 (Dec 13, 2016)

Good article about neighbors and disputes https://american-outdoors.net/2017/02/08/when-neighbors-collide-city-vs-country/

I came outside yesterday to see two hawks "hovering" about 50' over a half dozen of our free ranging chickens. They were into a headwind so it looked like they were just still in the air while looking down. My wife's sheltie barks like a machine gun and has a bark collar; my collie barks loud but briefly. They weren't barking but were laying nearby, and their presence alone was enough to keep the hawks moving along.
Most bark collars will allow your dog to bark a couple of times with only a beeping alert. That should be enough to make predators aware your dog is on duty.
As far as neighbor relations, calling the law says "I'm not interested in getting along. I just want you to stop doing what you are doing." I've never heard of relationships improving after that line is crossed.
In my area, problems usually occur from folks used to living in town and expecting everyone to act like they are in the suburbs.


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## farmrbrown (Jun 25, 2012)

Yeppers.
These folks above us only come to the mountains in the summertime.
They like to feed the deer ............. and the bears.
Yeah, that's right. They think it's cute to watch the bears eat while filming on their game cameras.
The dozen or so of us that live here year round have to deal the not-so-nice things that happen in the other 9 months of the year.
After almost walking into a large black bear having a smorgasbord with my garbage before dawn one morning I solved the problem.
My 55 gallon drums now have lids that are secured. They can knock them over, roll them and bite them but I don't have to pick up trash all over my yard.
In the decades I've been here, I never had a problem with bears until that crap started.
But I didn't call the game warden, I kept my mouth shut and solved the problem.
These are city folks with a chihuahua and freak out when a well behaved 120 lb. dog is walked by a 120 lb. woman without a leash.
Most of the time he wears an electronic collar so there can be no doubt about his obedience, but he really doesn't need it anymore now that I've had him a year or so. He was well trained and behaved as a service dog for a veteran when we got him from the pound. I believe living in a small apartment with no regular exercise as a puppy is what landed him in the shelter, because he has never given us a problem. It's also probably the reason he barks so infrequently, but I don't know for sure if he was disciplined for that behavior or not. It just makes sense from my observations.

As far as Mr. Haypoint is concerned...........




haypoint said:


> OK, I missed that altogether, these two Livestock Guard Dogs rarely if ever bark. Your claim is rare. I hear folks on here all the time explaining that constant barking is what keeps predators away. Sounds amazing.


It depends on the breed and the training.
I prefer dogs that act the way I do.
1 or 2 low growls or a bark, and then it's all action from there.


> What you call a “little scrape” involved the Cops. You think it was an over-reaction, while the Cops explained that she could have been arrested. That sounds physical. Fro9m your version, it was your wife that the Cops threatened to arrest. Earlier, you said you added the finishing touches on this cat fight with your “Next Time, last time” sign that had to see every day. That isn’t “let bygones be bygones”, that is being a jerk. You weren’t there, so you don’t know who the instigator was. But you don’t seem to want to blame a family member. Rationalization.


It eventually did end up being slightly physical. When the other woman went to get up and continue her rant in closer proximity to my wife's face, she was immediately "reseated".


> Having your neighbor haul home couple big dogs and then night after night of barking isn’t bowl of cherries, it is a major PITA. With the law behind them, they figure they are in the right and your feelings got hurt because the Cops embarrassed you.


Yep, that's about the size of it.
Like all relationships, there are smart ways and dumb ways to handle it.
These folks ain't all that bright.
I guess they compensate for their lack of courage and civility with a 911 call.



> From 1969 to 1977, I worked midnight shift and afternoons making window airconditioners or stamping out automobile car parts. Next I worked in several prisons, 18 years on afternoon shift, no holidays off, few weekends off. I worked thousands of hours of overtime. Sleeping all different hours. Then 9 years on day shift. Next another job on afternoon, Wednesday to Wednesday, then off 7 days. The main part of most of my working life has been communicating with people, resolving differences.


I've worked nights as well for many years. One thing I know for sure is lack of sleep will impair your judgement and cause overreactions.
That shouldn't be overlooked when making a *complete* assessment of the situation.


> You said you are the hot head, not your wife, yet the neighbor’s know you both are easy to rile. If I were your neighbor, I’m not going to risk an argument with you over that dog’s barking. Far easier to get the County expert to get your attention. Plus the record is established.


The first sentence is factually incorrect.
My wife is Not easily riled and I was amazed by her restraint. Previous little "incidents" of instigation while they are here is what draws my conclusion. Some people like to cause trouble and others like to live in peace.
The two husbands here, have sized up the situation and apparently had the appropriate conversation with their wives, based on the fact that everything has been peaceful ever since.
The rest of it goes back to my point about intelligence and cowardice.


> If you are able to afford, feed, vaccinate, vet two large guard dogs, you can afford to close up your poultry. Right?


Yep.
The OP took immediate action. All it took was a visit and a few words. Too bad not everyone can handle that simple task.


> Your last sentence shows that you are the type that when you can either shut up and walk off, your ego has you on their porch running your lips, making obscure threats.


Nope.
A Railroad crossing sign isn't a threat to me, just a warning to be heeded.
OTOH, I think we've established which of the two categories you fall in...........



> The threat, “ one bark, that’s the only warning you’ll get” makes me think I’m about to be assaulted. If I think I can, I’ll put a boot in your gut. If I don’t think I tke you, I’ll call the Cops. The version:” wife tried to handle a minor inconvenience caused by the neighbor, patiently and politely, she was rewarded with a middle finger and some cursing. At that point she set the woman straight and went back home, which SHOULD have ended it.” I’d love to hear the other side to this story, the one here makes little sense.


Believe whatever you wish.
For some people, they need to experience something firsthand to believe it........


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## Martlet (Apr 20, 2015)

So your wife assaulted someone but you're surprised the cops were called?


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## GTX63 (Dec 13, 2016)

I missed the assault part. What post is that in?


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## Martlet (Apr 20, 2015)

The post directly above mine.

"It eventually did end up being slightly physical. When the other woman went to get up and continue her rant in closer proximity to my wife's face, she was immediately "reseated"."


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## farmrbrown (Jun 25, 2012)

Martlet said:


> So your wife assaulted someone but you're surprised the cops were called?



Not entirely surprised, but given that under the circumstances it was minor, instigated and an act of self defense.....I was concerned enough to nip it in the bud.

I DID learn the other day that everyone is back on friendly terms again, waving to each other.........with ALL fingers extended.


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## Martlet (Apr 20, 2015)

farmrbrown said:


> Not entirely surprised, but given that under the circumstances it was minor, instigated and an act of self defense.....I was concerned enough to nip it in the bud.
> 
> I DID learn the other day that everyone is back on friendly terms again, waving to each other.........with ALL fingers extended.


It's funny how small communities work.


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## GTX63 (Dec 13, 2016)

Off topic-
Lol, my neighbor was letting his barking, yapping Jack Russels out the front door the other morning, while obviously in a heated discussion with his wife. We're a 1/4 miles down the road but on a still day sound still carries. It was apparently about his mother in law. As he is standing on his porch telling his dogs to "Shut up!!!" he looks over his shoulder back to his wife inside and shouts "I don't care what she says and I never will...what'd she say anyway?"


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## aoconnor1 (Jun 19, 2014)

Ok, so back to the OP. If you have a coop, then shut it up for the night with a light left on inside the coop. You can easily predator proof your coop with a little elbow grease and some strong mesh wire. 

Your Pyr are born to bark. If you have a barker, you have a barker. It isn't going to stop. So it is fully up to you to control that dog overnight, which means you have to keep it somewhere it won't bark at every twig, branch, or wind blowing that comes along. I have a Pyr, he barks constantly while outdoors. He is kept indoors so as not to do that. At night he is in. He will alert me to anything serious moving around out there, but mostly I protect my animals by MY PROTECTING my animals, that means securing the coop, building a new one, whatever has to be done to make sure they are safe. I strongly urge you to do that same so that both you AND your neighbors can get some rest


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## krackin (Nov 2, 2014)

That is why I like Akitas. They don't say much especially after you take the time to work with them. When they do sound off, grab your night fighting kit and go. Akitas tend not to exaggerate. They just protect what they own. It's a lucky human to be owned by an Akita. Ever so loyal.


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## emdeengee (Apr 20, 2010)

When dogs (and cats) are litter mates and then they spend their adult life together they do become very, very attached and dependent. Probably all the brothers need is to see each other.

Can you build a small pen with a wire ceiling and keep Roma in there at night while Bosco has the run of the property to do the guarding?


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## mekasmom (Jan 19, 2010)

GPs bark all night every night. It is how they guard, part of their normal behaviors. "Big dog on patrol. Stay away." Anatolians are quieter. I like them. They are a "harder" dog though.


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## gjhinesjr (Jun 28, 2014)

I don't often agree with Haypoints posts but in this instance I do completely.

To the OP. I have a single pyrennees. Love that dog. But he'll bark all night long if I let him. And by all night long, I mean only stops to inhale. Like others have said. It's what they do. You're claim that the two of them together don't bark seems suspect to say the least. Either way. Put a bark collar on him and be done. I put mine's on every night before he gets fed. I call it his "sanity collar" (for my sanity that is). I don't like the points rubbing his skin so most nights it's on pretty loose in fact. Only have to tighten it up once a week or less to remind him. But any other time of day, if I'm not outside and it's not on. He's barkin.

I understand a bark collar is not what you want out of your property guardian. But like has been said before. You absolutely cannot let him bark continuously. Period. I'm in the same boat. My pasture boarders a small town, so I feel the obligation to keep all my animals under control. Shoot, I feel bad when the cows are in heat.

Being respectful of others is just part of the gig.


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