# Some thing read in book I found not true.



## alleyyooper (Apr 22, 2005)

Don't know if you would call them Myths or what but a couple of intresting things I have learned to not be what iws in the books and what some bee keepers tell you 

When looking for the queen in the hive look for a circle of workers. The queen will always be in that circle of attendants faceing her.
So here is a picture of a queen. See the circle of workers?



















Another is queens will never go on honey capped or not. what is this queen on?



















Bees will not sting thru surgical gloves. What is this worker doing to my finger OUCH!!!










 Al


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## tom j (Apr 3, 2009)

so I take it as they do sting if you have those gloves on ??????
the little snot s


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## mare (Aug 31, 2006)

how thick do gloves need to be to not get stung thru? i have some thin goat skin gloves do you suppose those would be thick enough?


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## tom j (Apr 3, 2009)

I know that as Al says ,, I march to a different drummer ,, but I got a suit the first year I had bees , by my way of thinking was , if i was going to be a responsible keeper then I had to have a suit . last year I ran into 2 more suits so I now have 3 . I got my first hive in 96 ,, 2 years ago (09) was the first time I put a suit on ,, and that year I ripped the a part so bad ( I shook all the bees off all the frames on all the hives , and no smoke or sugar spray ,I think we had 4 , mine and my sons hives ) , my wife got stung setting on the front porch .. why I ripped them apart like that ??? NO IDEA .. what I'm getting at ,, I never wear any thing , Ok ,, I do wear ,pants , under wear :flameproofundies: , socks and shoes .. No shirt , I take it off , and I take the hive all the way apart right to the bottom screen board , at times .. and the kids call me a Bear when I go in the hives . I get 10 to 14 stings a year.. and most are because I put my hands on them and crush . so If you go slow, and watch the girls put up with you with no stings most of the time . some of my grand kids started a 3 helping me go in the hives .. and they wear all reg street stuff ,,, NO BLACK ... 
OH yea ,, DO NOT WEAR BLACK ,, thats one color they don't like ..
But this is us .. ( see march to a different drummer ) do it the way YOU are comfortable , wear a work glove with thick leather if you want gloves ,, go get a paint jump suit from home depot 8 10 dollars ,,I think , for a suit ( this is what a lot of keepers wear ,) don't feel you have to wear or not wear something ,, the important thing is how YOU feel comfortable . this way you will enjoy working the hive . if you don't feel comfortable , then your not going to enjoy having bees .. and that is the important thing here . sorry for the long winded reply . but do it the way that you are comfortable. so you enjoy it .


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## MNBobcat (Feb 4, 2011)

Hi Alleyyooper,

My queens always came with a paint spot painted on them to help identify them. Was your queen raised in the hive?


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## alleyyooper (Apr 22, 2005)

I wear thin goat skin gloves when workinbg the hives. I do not like proplis on the trucks door handles or the steering wheel, other wise I would go bare handed. Still at times get stung thru them on really hot days when the backs are sweat soaked.

Like Tom says wear what your comfortiable with. We do not wear suits, I did wear one of those paint suits Tom mentioned the very first time I installed my first bees from the nuc to the hive. Found them just to hot and not needed.
I can not go slow and easy like Tom though as we have 12 out yards and need to get thru the hives while on the road ASAP due to fuel cost.

I raise most of my queens in a nuc. The painted queens are mostly to age her as each year has a color. Some find it easier to find a marked queen so pay the extra money to get them that way. I had a pair of marked (red) queens in a couple of packages several years ago. One of the queens didn't have a drop of paint on her a week after she was released. the other lasted a bit longer about a month if I remember right.

Kare keeps detailed records of each and every hive. She can look in her records and tell me where the hive came from, swarm package or nuc. She can trace the queens back to their mothers (where they came from). She can tell me the first year we harvested honey from a colony and how much every year after that. 
Been trying to find a program for the lap top so we can convert to that rather than the 6 books she carries.


Getting stung today is no big deal for me. Usally a half latter I have to think where I got (body part) stung.

 Al


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## Wisconsin Ann (Feb 27, 2007)

Took me a long time to get used to finding the queens in my hives. I was always looking for that "circle" of attendants because "that's what the book says to look for". 

Then I talked to a longtime beekeeper and he told me "just look for the odd looking one", and by golly....there she was. I never had a problem finding her after that. 

As to being marked...If I need to requeen by ordering I don't bother with the paint. As Al says...it doesnt' stay on long enough to be worth while.


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## MNBobcat (Feb 4, 2011)

I guess I'm getting old. They didn't used to charge extra for the paint. I've been out of beekeeping for some time (about 25 years) but now that I have a farm I'm considering getting back into it. I have to watch my sugar as I was very close to being diabetic. I need to read up a bit on honey to see if its something I could even eat any more.

Glad they finally figured out what was killing off the hives.

How many hives do you have?


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## alleyyooper (Apr 22, 2005)

Yes they charge about $2.00 and up for marked queens today. 

I am type 2 diabetic and I use honey in my morning tea every morning. Like every thing else today I must moderate which even includes a good steak with a potato of some type. Isn't the stak so much as the potato and the weight gain.

I have to be very carefull when extracting not to lick my fingers to much LOL.

:happy0035: Al


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## BjornBee (Jan 17, 2011)

Can you please post the book(s) that states the queen will "always" be in a circle of workers?

I know books sometimes suggest that to find the queen, you should look first on the brood frames, or other place giving you the best chances of finding her. But I am not aware of any book that claims the queen will "always" be in the middle of a circle as suggested. I find her in about every place in the hive. Sometimes with a circle and sometimes not. 

Also what book claims that bees do not sting through surgical gloves? I have never read such a comment.

Thanks.

BTW...how old is that charcoal colored wax in the next to last photo? Wow!


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## alleyyooper (Apr 22, 2005)

(1. Nope can't quote the one or two books that say to find the queen look for the circle of attendent bees surrounding the queen. I own 12 book 10 more that suggest by the moderater on the first forum I joined because he was tired of answering the same questions over and over. No they were not my questions. Wisconsin Ann also stated the same thing in her book readings.

(2.* "Don't know if you would call them Myths or what but a couple of intresting things I have learned to not be what is in the books and what some bee keepers tell you" *
Don't know that the glove thing was ever in a book I read. But it was going around at several of the club meetings it worked. Thats why I gave it a try and found it didn't work for me.

(3. Have no Idea how old that comb was. We had just bought 7 colonies at a out yard of a retireing bee keeper who had gotten sick and could not work his bees any longer. In fact he told us he had not been in the hive in 3 years but had paid another bee keeper to place Checkmite strips on them the spring and fall before.

We recycled 5 frames a year out of each colony till they were newer. Should see some of the stuff we get out of barns, trees and sheds. I bet some of the cells in that stuff is smaller than small cell 4.9 stuff.

 Al


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## tom j (Apr 3, 2009)

the way I have heard ,, a diabetic is better off eating honey then sugar ,it doesn't raise the blood like sugar ,, it does raise but not as much


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## Wisconsin Ann (Feb 27, 2007)

I think that the whole "won't sting through surgical *gloves*" got started because of the nitrile gloves that are so heavy. That..and actually, now that I think back, there is a beekeeper from the UK that does a very nice, low key beekeeping show who wears them and claims somewhere along the line that it keeps the bees from tasting him so they don't sting. hmm. have to find those clips again. If you haven't seen them, they're worth a look. It's a tad sloooowwww...but gives a nice glimpse into UK beekeeping. There are 2 series, btw. Different hosts. Almost everyone that has a yard/garden in the UK seems to have a hive. 

re: book. I haven't looked at it in years now...but I remember the one we had was yellow (duh) with a closeup of the comb on the cover with bees on the comb. Pretty thick, as I recall. I'm thinking the same info was in the small pamphlet type book that came with our first order of bees. You know the type...Welcome Beginner! here's your step by step beekeeping manual!

we've talked about gear to wear before, and it's just so individual. Artificer has to be covered head to toe because he's terribly allergic. Me...I wear gloves and a veil unless I'm doing something down in the brood. The girls get a tad upset when I open up the brood bodies. Although I will go to check the supers without either veil or gloves. :shrug: My "full suit" consists of long sleeved tightly woven heavy silk shirt (men's silk dress shirt actually) with the collar turned up under my veil; long gloves with velcro/elastic; and long pants taped shut over my boots. hat and veil, of course. 

Diabetes...I have no research proof..just a friend who is diabetic and will eat honey but not refined sugar. She says she can have tea with honey and it won't raise her numbers.


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## Terri (May 10, 2002)

I wear plastic dishwashing gloves when I work a hive: I have watched a bee TRY and TRY to sting through one but they cannot! Their feet slip on the smooth plastic and they get zero leverage to push the stinger in.

I also put rubber bands aroun the cuffs so that no bee gets inside and gets squished as I move.

Surgical gloves, on the other hand, are designed so that an instrument will NOT SLIP out of the surgeons hands. I have never tried the surgical gloves for bees- dishwashing gloves are easier to buy- and now I never intend to!

Time and time again I have read about the circle of bees that are surrounding a queen but I still could not find her. I finally started looking for eggs instead: if there were eggs then the queen *IS* on the job, and if not the bees have what they need to replace her.


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## mare (Aug 31, 2006)

Terri said:


> I wear plastic dishwashing gloves when I work a hive: I have watched a bee TRY and TRY to sting through one but they cannot! Their feet slip on the smooth plastic and they get zero leverage to push the stinger in.
> 
> I also put rubber bands aroun the cuffs so that no bee gets inside and gets squished as I move.
> 
> ...


the reason i wanted to try the thinner goat skin gloves is cuz they are snugger and i hate working with gloves that are to loose, they seem to twist all around the fingers and drives me nuts. regarding the paint suits, i am gonna try them but they are awful thin, i guess it doesnt seem like it would stop the stings but then again they are baggy too.


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## alleyyooper (Apr 22, 2005)

You are good to go with the pig skin gloves just do as Tom said who goes bare handed as many bee keepers do. Go slow and easy, tom nor do I use smoke, I only use smoke in extreem cases. for minor upriseings I mist with syrup.

While the dish washing gloves will work because they are slick and thick they are hot, hot hot. 
Suits are hot also even the paint suits although thin.

Kare & I use a helmit and veil, light colored dress shirt, some are thick, I use in the spring and fall, some are lighter weight I use when it is real hot I buy from the good will store or salvation army store. A normal pair of jeans just like I wear shopping or to go to church in. Pig skin gloves with some sleeve garters. If I am doing a removel or shakeing out a queen less colony I will wear some thing to close up my pant legs like rubber bands.










Kares gloves are some garden gloves for women with ganulets. she uses pig skin gloves today with sleeve guards from Kelleys.

 Al


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## tom j (Apr 3, 2009)

One thing I had ment to say ,, one reason I don't care if I get stung is ,,,,, I have arthritis and bee sting help with the arthritis .. and yes I do make the girls sting me at times .. when I do that I don't count them as stings , so I take a lot more sting then 12 a year .. this is why Al says I walk to a different drummer ...


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## mare (Aug 31, 2006)

i have arty too so i am not gonna get too upset if i get stung--cant hurt much worse than the shots i give myself.  Tom do you think the stings have helped? i think you guys are brave for not wearing gloves but the more i read the more i am hearing to not get started wearing gloves. the gloves i am thinking of using are goat skin and they smell like a goat and the more i read it sounds like that might be a problem for the bees (goats stink). are the white suits any thicker than jeans are? thanks for all the pics, they are so helpful to actually see alot of the things i am reading about. Al are the holes in your deeps ever plugged and if so why--i read they should be the size of a cork? i am getting so excited!!!!


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## alleyyooper (Apr 22, 2005)

The holes in our deeps are 3/4 inch. Since about 95% of our deep boxes are so drilled(most will be finished this year.)they do get pluged. Plugs are made from soft dowl I buy from the lumber yard and cut just over a inch long then taper one end a bit so it pushes in easy. they get plugged when we are going to move a colony, when I am going to use the box to catch a swarm, but that is about all. Here at home in the yard where I can see what is happening all the time when I'm home I have plugged up those holes also when I see signs of them getting into a robbing mode on a week colony.

I have no idea of the thickness of the bee suits since I have never owned one. Lady I taught for a couple years used to laugh I had to call ahead before coming by to do a inspection and lesson as she was naked underneith the suit. but she has also taken after us and went to just long sleeves and jeans. Even naked she found it a pain to stop her garden work get in the bee suit to work with us then get back in her garden togs.

 Al


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## mare (Aug 31, 2006)

she gardens in the nude too!!!! oh to have enough property to be able to do that  well just saw she changes for the garden..oops.


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## tom j (Apr 3, 2009)

yes it does help mine but I don't take the number of sting that they say you should take ,, google sting therapy... also google "" arthritis and night shade "" I had a BIG change when I stopped night shade , but that takes 90 to 120 days before you know if it helps or not .. it took mine 15 - 18 weeks before it felt better , but I always ate a LOT of night shade .


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## alleyyooper (Apr 22, 2005)

We are 400 feet off the road here and i have several rows of white spruce trees planted as traffic noise and dust blocks along the road. Down the sides of the property as wind blocks and for privicy. While never gardening in the nude Kare used to lay out in the back yard to get her vitiam D supply. Problem is those darn planes buzzing the place to the point I complained to the local air port athourty, with the answer nothing they could do. Then the utrla lites started in but by then, I don't know what their attraction was, Kare didn't go nude in the back yard. That stopped when I told a friend who's neighbour was one of those ultra lite flyers I was just going to try to shoot them down since they had thousands of acres to fly over just two more mile farther south and being state land no one to offend with the noise and stuff. Went around with a pitition to get it on the next ballot they had to buy a licence, pass a flying course like regular ploits, put numbes on them so we couldidentfy the noisey ones. I also started calling the police about the noise, my state legislaters, the county comminissors, just any one I could think of to complian too. It didn't stop them totally but did slow them down a whole bunch. 
Like the people who put up with snow mobilers noise all winter we had the same thing all spring, summer, and fall. So nothing can be done in the nude here really unless you want to put on a show.

 Al


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## Cascade Failure (Jan 30, 2007)

I disagree. I have done a few things in the nude just to scare some people away. Poor Witnesses.


Back to the bees...

I use more sugar water than smoke.

Haven't used a suit or jacket yet.

I'm a wuss. I like gloves. This may change.


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## Wisconsin Ann (Feb 27, 2007)

We have an outdoor shower during the summer at the farm. Easier than keeping things clean and drained inside with all the humidity we get . Artificer uses it regularly, me...I'm afraid to scare off the neighbor...although he does live 1/2 mile away....

I try to NOT use smoke, either. It seems to stress the little buggers out and they munch the honey to save it "from the fire". I like the idea of a sugar spray, but keep forgetting to use it.  must try that this year. 

It's all about getting comfortable with them, isn't it? Another friend has/had some hives, but the kids have some major allergies to some things, and she decided it just wasn't worth getting them stung and finding out they'd die from it. good call in this case I suspect. 

Oh. another tip. Do NOT go mowing with your flail mower around the hives. They do NOT like the sound.  oh brother do they not like it.


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## mare (Aug 31, 2006)

Ann, what is a flail mower?


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## tom j (Apr 3, 2009)

yes it is about what you are comfortable with ,the norm is the longer and more you work with hives the more comfortable you get and start not wearing all the stuff , guess I never thought about putting on the suit ,cause I'm not one to run from a yellow jacket nest ether . guess to me its not a big deal .. now bald faced hornets , them I don't play with .they get sprayed down real good after dark . I have had only one hive that came out to look at me using a grass trimer around the hives .


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## Wisconsin Ann (Feb 27, 2007)

Hornets=:runforhills: golly I hate those. 

Flail mower..brush hog, etc...big thing that you pull with a tractor usually..it has a couple of things underneath that whirl around to mow. makes a LOT of noise. My girls react to the string mower, too...er...weed whacker. Got to be the motor noise. I'm going to try an electric one this summer just for the hive areas. It whines some, but nothing loud, so maybe it will work.


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## alleyyooper (Apr 22, 2005)

If it isn't to untidy for ya just put down old carpet found setting out for the trash guy, even cardboard from the applince store works but won'tlast as long. My bees are fine as long as I don't allow exhust to blow in the hives or tward them.

 Al


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## AverageJo (Sep 24, 2010)

I put down shingles in front of their hives to keep the weeds down, but I think it gets too hot. I'm going to try the cardboard followed with carpet idea this year. As for how to dress, I go with everything covered. It's not that I think I'm going to get stung otherwise, I just can't stand anything crawling on me. It gives me the willies. Perhaps I'll get over this some day, but for now it's long pants and shirt, veil and gloves.


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## Wisconsin Ann (Feb 27, 2007)

:doh:


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## tom j (Apr 3, 2009)

> I just can't stand anything crawling on me <
I know how you feel ,, They all around here know ,, you don't tickle me or you WILL get hit ,, and only bonnie can mess with my hair ,, and a few other things . the grand kids know not to turn around and around cause I tell them that I will make a deposit on there head ,,


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## alleyyooper (Apr 22, 2005)

Yesterday I was putting on syrup at one of the out yards. The owner and I have become real good friends so he came out to talk. One of the colonies there is rather on the warm side and when you open them they all except the queen and her attendants and the nurse bees come up to say hello. I'm wearing a insulated flannal shirt & sweat shirt with loose fitting sleeves. A bunch of them say to each other bet it is watrm inside those sleeves so I get several inside warming them selves. I tell my friend as I am walking back to the pick up he should move away from me for a bit. A the truck I remove the sweat shirt and shake out 5 bees from the left sleeve and 4 from the right one. Undo the buttons on the sleeves of the shirt and remove two from my arm on the right and one more from the left. My friend says he doesn't under stand why they didn't sting me. I tell him they just wanted to be warm is all but knew to leave when I started stripping because they would get cold or killed.

 Al


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## AverageJo (Sep 24, 2010)

Al, I'd be running for the hills!!! That would tickle so bad I'd end up dropping a frame and then getting them really mad at me! Nope. I'm all covered and tucked in!


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## alleyyooper (Apr 22, 2005)

Still to cold to be pulling frames here. Just seeing them alive is enought at this point, and getting syrup on them.

The wax is still stiff and brittle, the proplis is as hard as a rock so you could end up with damaged comb and frames.


 Al


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## tom j (Apr 3, 2009)

the girls crawling on me , I don't mind , in fact I kind of enjoy ,, I know I'm kind of strange , every now and then a girl will get up by the hearing aid ,I have the in the ear , when they do it sounds like your head is inside the hive not on the outside ,last year one was trying to go in my ear and sat right on the aid , then was mad cause it couldn't get in .. boy that was LOUD ...


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## alleyyooper (Apr 22, 2005)

Went to feed a bunch of girls yesterday, was 68F. Pulled off the outer cover on many and the ungratefull came up in force from many of them. Got I think 6 stings for the afternoon. Have only found one more dead out so far. 
Getting into most of the yards was a slippery affair. If it wasn't mud it was snow which had drifted during the winter. Truck even after last nights rain still has big clumps stuck to it. still 10 colonies to visit today if all goes well.

:happy0035: Al


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