# 1st milking experience



## Christina R. (Apr 22, 2004)

Ok, when someone said 10 minutes to hand milk, it was a misprint and they meant 10 hours...right?! I think after about 40 minutes I got about 1-2 quarts...hard to tell since she peed in the 1st bucket I dumped and kicked over the second one. I'm glad I know someone who can come over and help me learn the right finger motion. I can get a good stream by closing the top and then rolling that finger down, but this multiple finger roll thing doesn't seem to come naturally to me.

I also don't know how to hold the bucket between my legs and milk. I had to set it on the floor and aim. I'm thinking of putting a stand under it (to make it easier for her to kick over 

My only bright spot is I keep reassuring myself that every person who ever milked must have had a day like mine and I really will learn how to milk. Thank God at least she is letting me milk her. I hope I learn to be more effective before her milk comes in in the next two days or that poor gal is going to be in pain from my not getting as much as she wants to give. I guess that will be one more benefit of keeping the calf on her while I'm learning my elbow from my knee.

ANY HINTS WOULD BE MOST APPRECIATED!!!


----------



## OD (May 25, 2004)

Christina R. said:


> Ok, when someone said 10 minutes to hand milk, it was a misprint and they meant 10 hours...right?!
> ************************************************************
> RIGHT!!!!! My favorite "accessory" is a little milking stool that straps around my waist, so I can move without having to pick it up. My DH calls it my stinger. After awhile, you'll know when she is going to kick the bucket before she knows, so you'll have time to get it out of the way. No matter what anybody says, it takes a long time to get your hands in shape to milk. That's why I have a Jersey, they don't give so much milk. She will be sore for a few days, & won't want anybody squeezing the sore parts, so it will take some patience.


----------



## Danny (May 19, 2004)

Could not agree with what you said about milking time, at least it seems that long. I'm just beginning milking myself but here is what I learned.
I built a stanchion in a place where the cow can see around so she seems happier. I heard if they are happy in there they don't have so many bathroom problems, it seems to be true, very little problem after moving it there.
Also have a feed in front and a bar behind so there is no room for her to move backwards or forward. She may still shuffle her feet some but you have to watch for that and you learn when it coming. I bought cubes which takes her longer to eat because as long as she is eating there is little movement.
Hope this helps and we both get faster!!


----------



## Haggis (Mar 11, 2004)

My Dorsey fidgets!!! She doesn't kick but she shuffles, she sneezes, she moves her back feet almost none stop. When I started milking her I was not aware of her ways and lost a partial bucket or two of milk, but now I do what my Grandfather taught me when I was a little tyke about dealing with less than calm cattle; I milk "this cow" into a one quart sauce pan and pour the milk into the bucket which is set to one side.

A young cow can be trained to stand; most of the time, but a few will fidget. An 8 year old cow like Dorsey is set in her ways and I just figured that I'd go with the flow and use the suace pan. If she does move or sneeze before I can move the sauce pan I just loose a little milk rather than a whole bucket. In fairness to Dorsey, she was milked with a milking machine until halfway through her last lactation when the fellow who owned her started hand milking his dozen Jerseys.

The down side is that I can only milk her with one hand at a time, but it still only takes a bit more than 10 minutes to empty out her 2 to 2 1/4 gallons, and it sure beats losing a while milking to a dry dairy feed sneeze.


----------



## Christina R. (Apr 22, 2004)

Okay, milking three and last night I got out about a half a gallon. Today I almost doubles that, but I'm still making mistakes. I should have had the baby by her the whole time. I still don't have the finger roll thing down (someone is coming over on FRIDAY to help), and she did kick, but I think she wouldn't have if her baby was by her. When her baby is by her, she mellows out. I don't think she is letting her milk down, I think I am still inefficintly squirting it which is why I am only getting a lil less than a gallon in 40-50 minutes. Last night's still looked too much like colostrum, today looked like it was changing over to milk (it was a little over 48 hours post birth). Her bag is still swollen, I am by no means milking her loose. The baby is on her all day, but tonight I am separating them and having the baby by me when i milk at 5:30 (that is when the baby usually is out there nursing and I am starting to milk at 6). This is one learning experience after another with me getting it all wrong to begin with. I keep telling myself tp give myself a learning curve and next week it'll be easier. The baby seems to be scouring a little from drinking too much...another reason to separate them at night.


----------



## willow_girl (Dec 7, 2002)

Christina, the calf should pass thick yellowish feces (meconium) for the first day or two. This is normal. (Just thought I'd pass that on, in case it helps.)


----------



## AR Transplant (Mar 20, 2004)

I am a first time milker as well. Ain't it more fun than a goat roping?

The first time I milked I got about a pint. The next day the neighbor helped me and we got over a gallon. (calf 48 hours old).

I milked her three times a day with the calf on her for the first few days, than two times a day, than one.

It was a month before I seperated the calf, than I found that I had the have the calf by her before she would let down. She is very good at holding her milk back for that calf. 

Last week when I had no choice, I milked without the calf by her and I managed to get less than a quart (the calf had been on her all day) by taking my fist and hitting up on her udder, like the calf does when she wants more.
Isabella didn't even flinch so I know I didn't hurt her. But I sure wouldn't try that on a sore cow.

I love my cow, and I love milking, it's one of the best relaxing things that I do.

good luck and stick with it, it's worth it.

Arkansas Transplant


----------



## Christina R. (Apr 22, 2004)

Thanks for the encouragement, AR. Thanks also for the note, Willow, on the yellow pasty stuff being meconium. All is fine. 

Last night I had someone come over and watch me milk, he said it was all good. I got over 2 gallons, but when I was pouring it in the jar I noticed blood. I read this didn't necessarily mean mastitis, that right after claving it could be from broken blood vessels in an over engourged udder. Her udder has been over engorged for over a week and a half. Today it looked more reasonable in size, and when I did a simple squirt into a cup it all looked good. The whole pail looked good today. I got 1 1/2 gallons not counting the 1/2 gallon she kicked over. Today was by far the best experience so far. It's still taking about 45 minutes. I don't see the udder looking empty, but I think I can tell the teat seems to be more flacid and not full of milk after a lot of milking. Until her udder becomes more normal, I have to go by that.

I'm glad to hear I can milk twice a day until I see her getting some relief, then transfer to my once a day until the baby is sold or weaned. Thanks again for everyone's input. It has helped my very nervous heart.


----------



## willow_girl (Dec 7, 2002)

> I still don't have the finger roll thing down (someone is coming over on FRIDAY to help),


Don't worry about closing your fingers in the right order -- if you hold out your hand and squeeze it shut, you'll see that your hand naturally closes from the top to the bottom. You have to force it to make it close the other way. 

OK, how can I describe this? Basically, you're pinching the duct in the teat off at the top, using the *base* of your thumb and first finger, then you're squeezing the milk out by pressing the rest of your fingers against the meaty part of your hand (beneath the thumb). 

Obviously, the longer the teat, the better, as you can use more fingers to squeeze with! 

Incidentally, I have carpal tunnel pretty bad, so for me, it's more a matter of pressing my hand against my fingers, rather than vice versa (since I don't have much grip in the fingers). But hey, whatever works!  

The thing you want to avoid is making a 'ring' of your thumb and first finger, and sliding it down the teat. That damages the cells lining the teat.  

Since your cow is a first-calf heifer, her udder is going to be 'tight' ... with repeated milkings, it will soften up a bit, and your hands will get stronger!

P.S. AR Transplant, yes, you definitely can stimulate the udder to get a cow to let her milk down! Massaging sometimes works, or striking it with the heel of your hand (like you described). If you watch a calf or kid do this to momma, MAN, they are BRUTAL! Libby-Belle just about lofts poor Dawn into the air (not really, but almost! :no. Once again I will put in a plug for Uddermint ... which, in the milking parlor, I refer to as "Miracle Mint"! Here's a link: http://www.northstarcooperative.com/NSC/Products/uddermint.htm

As a last resort, you can administer a shot of Oxytocin, but repeated injections can lead to the cow refusing to let down unless she receives a shot first.


----------



## Oxankle (Jun 20, 2003)

Your cow lets down her milk when her calf sucks. If you want her milk, you will have to become her friend. Talk to your cow, pet her when you feed her. When you wash her teats and udder use warm water and massage it a bit as you dry it off. Scratch her brisket and rub her back. 

When you sit on your milking stool, ram your head into her flank. This helps you get comfortably balanced as you milk, and it reinforces her milking urge. This position leaves you leaning slightly forward and makes it easy to hold a bucket between your knees as you milk with both hands. 

After a bit of this the cow will let her milk down when you start pulling on her teats. A good homesteader type Jersey, newly freshened, should easily produce two and a half gallons of milk twice daily. A big dairy Jersey should do more. 

I never favored the "stinger" type milking stools. If I want something strapped to my behind it is going to be made by Boeing. 
Ox


----------



## Meg Z (Jun 8, 2004)

When I was growing up, and we hand milked, I was taught to lean my forehead into the flank of the cow as I was milking. Two reasons. One, it gave your back a bit of rest. The main one, though, was that you can feel the muscles tense up before the leg moves, so can block with one arm (up high) and grab the bucket with the other. 

It worked on our cows. Might not work for others.

Meg


----------



## Christina R. (Apr 22, 2004)

All is going well. It gets easier every day, except my laft hand does get far more tired, far faster. Corabelle is a gem. She fussed a little the first 2 days, but has been so great since then. The only thing she fusses over now is when the goats try to take the hay set out for her. 

The goofiest thing she does is take her long tail and lay it over the back of my neck and drape it down my shoulder like it is my mink stole. She never whacks me with it, just drapes it over and rest it there.

One other question I have is when I am milking her, do I have to do an upwards bump movement each squirt or just close my fingers and squeeze down. I have been kind of closing my thumb and finger and pushing up at the same time then closing the others, and thought if I 'm pushing up for nothing, why waste the strength.

Good news, AR transplant said milking her cow is so realxing to her. I remember thinking at the beginning of the week, "I'll never see that day". Well, I think I can see that time coming soon. 

Thanks again, everyone.


----------



## uncle Will in In. (May 11, 2002)

Just be sure your hand is at the top of the teat against the bag each squeeze. It don't require much poshing up. Do you squeeze with one hand while you are getting a new grip with the other hand? Your muscles in your fore arms get toughened up to the task the longer you do it. In 90 days you'll be able to milk her in less than 10 minutes.


----------



## bdfarmer (Aug 19, 2004)

Hello new friends,

I recently learned of your group and am an eager new member. How appropriate my first post would be to this thread. I too am a 1st time milker, or rather hope to be soon. I have a couple of 5 year old Holstein/Charlaise pet "cows." One has calfed 3 times. The other has not been bred yet. Momma Mabel doesn't enjoy my attempts at milking her. She's extremely adament with swinging her entire body from side to side, including mashing me against the stall rails and non-stop kicking. I rather quickly gave up on the first two lactations. 

I refortified myself with this recent freshening though and built a holding chute with a feed bin at the end. She's just now getting used to entering it under her own steam. I clip her halter to a shortened up lead rope once she's in place. Unfortunately this is not enough restraint as she can still move back and forth quite a bit. I also made the chute too wide (apx 31" total) thus she can move side too side more than I would like. Believe it or not, the side rails were real snug on her originally (she was within days of calfing when the chute was made).

Last night was the first time her calf was separated from her in his own little stall (between her stall and the chute). He was bawling this morning. "Little Brother" is about 10 weeks old and doing fine. He grazes well and eats a few alfalfa cubes at "feeding" time. It looks like he managed to nurse Mabel's right quarters out this morning through the stall rails. I could not get any milk out of her left quarters, not even one drip, squirt, dibble or glimmer. The tips of her teats never even got slight damp. I found myself foolishly imaging it was if they didn't even have openings in their ends. How embarrassing!

Moments later when she got together with her calf he immediately managed to nurse from those left quarters that I could'nt get a drop out of!

I plan on reconstructing the chute about 6 inches narrower and rigging up some sort of rail I can slide in and out behind her. That will reduce her movement, but... will persistance and trying some of the "love making" stuff (warm water wash, stroking, etc) really end up doing the trick? 

Thanks so much, Phyl


----------



## JanO (Jun 17, 2003)

I've been following this thread and I'm going to recommend that you check out _http://www.real-food.com/_ and order the book "Keeping a Family Cow" by Joanne Grohman. She is an absolutly fantastic lady that is extreemly knowledgable in small dairy operations, working with not so willing cows, etc. Her book, and her site is a wonderful resource for new cow owners, and also has tips and information for old hands at the game. There is also a forum in there that you can ask any direct questions to other members and usually get an answer very fast.


----------



## Janene in TX (Jun 27, 2004)

bdfarmer & Christina R I mailed ya each a PM.....Milking like anything else takes practise. Mostly the muscles & co-ordination of the arms/hands to get built up & 'used' to the task at hand. As you will see the more you do it, the better & more adept & faster you will get. 
Keep the cow happy & keep the other critters away (& out of *HER food*) when you are milking...this is you & your cows' time when you are milking. You will have a much better 'partner' this way. If she is happy, she will make you happy...less fidgeting, moving, kicking, etc. 
Cows are like people...each of us are different & have our 'quirks'. We once had a cow that hated cats & would step on them ANY chance she had. If they got down into the feed bunk while we were milking & she was eating I guarentee 2 things would happen: 1) The cat would get a 'head butt' or similar & 2) we would have attempted spilt milk from whatever action the cow would do to let us know there was a cat too close!! (We had an old wooden stanchion/bunk & at the time I was too short to see any cats creeping around.)
JMO...Good Luck & hang in there!!


----------



## Christina R. (Apr 22, 2004)

Thanks for all the input. Our internet was down, so I wasn't able to read everything until today. Corabelle is very cooperative about being milked. I'm milking her two rear teats and leaving the front ones for the baby as the baby seems to be on them, when I milk them it's a short time till they run dry , then the baby bangs the heck out of them when I turn Corabelle back into the yard, and finally, I'm working up to the hand stamina to milk for that long. I think her front teats are a little sore from the baby, but I keep putting bag balm on all 4 about a half hour after I milk (when they have air dried from the teat dip).

I milk until the milk becomes a trickle in one teat and almost non existent in the other. I can sense the "flat teat" description that I've read about in books. Her udder isn't swollen like pre birth, but it isn't this loose hanging bag. I can see folds in the skin after I've milked, but it definitely has substance to it. I guess I was imagining an empty bag type sensation. The front part of the udder always seems a little tighter, but I'm relying on the fact that she is producing what the baby uses and is adjusting the production to that.

I'm still milking twice a day, but I get less at night. Maybe everything will adjust to a once a day on all 4 teats within the next week.

One new question, I milk her within 15 minutes of the same time. If I have to milk her 30 - 45 minutes earlier on one or two occasions to allow for a meeting, is it really going to harm her?

PS Keeping the family cow has been a life saver. The local library has lent it to me about 10 times in the last year. Also Uncle Will, I do squeeze with one hand while I get a grip with the other. I'm glad to here it takes 90 days to milk in 10 minutes, I was thinking people thought it would happen in the first 9 days. I grasp by the top of the teat, but will definitely make sure I feel the top of the bag on the top part of my fingers. Do I try to race through it or do I squirt with a rhythm?


----------



## bdfarmer (Aug 19, 2004)

Dear Christina and Friends,

"If it's not one thing it's another" sure seems to apply to me. I eagerly got up the next morning to try my second round of milking Mabel, but found out I was to attend an all morning long orientation preshool/kindergarten session with my wife and three year old son. With just an hour or so at hand I had to forego milking to the pressing needs of fence repair instead, thus just let the calf get all the glory and cream as usual.

The next morning dawned more hopeful though. Mabel is in place in the chute with the addition of a restaining board slid in snug behind her, but alas I only have a few handfuls of alfalfa cubes left to keep her occupied while this product of an anemic comtemporary world (me) undertakes the primordial deed of milking. Will it be enough? I've reread Joan Sill Grohman's milking chapter in her _Keeping a Family Cow_, checked out her website and read all the posts here. 

Bucket of warm soapy water in hand, clean rags in tow, encased cow in "crate" (chute), calf a few feet away, three year old and cat at bay, Mabel munches on her feed and I kneel in the pea-gravel beneath my bovine donor to be. Tentatively I start cleansing the udder and teats with the warm soapy water and half of one of my sons former cloth diapers. It is a pleasant experience as I and Mabel relax into it. The remaining remnant of the daiper becomes drying towel. The moment of truth and teat is at hand, unfortunately the stainless steel bucket is not (darn that three old boy of mine). 

Quickly I rinse the plastic (just this once, I promise) bucket of soap suds and again squat beneath the udder female of my life. Forehead to flank (2 by 4 rail over head), teats in hand, "pinch off" and squeeze...nothing. Again, again nothing. Really, really squeeze. I can do it. Can she take it? Yes she can. She does not sky-rocket through the sheetmetal roof above. Her teats do not burst under the pressure like a balloon. Still no milk though. Mabel eats her alfalfa with undistracted diligence. I sqeeze again with all my might, but the teat deflates. No there's no leak, just back wash up into the udder. Pinch off better this next time and squeeze, squeeze, SQUEEZE...and squirt. Yes, we have done it! Dear Mabel and I and calf have mustered milk. We have recreated the immortal union of man and beast, of man kneeling on the earth at the hooved alter and mother of all farm life, the sacred cow. We have attained the archetype, but must first fill the bucket before we are one with the ranks of dairy folk the world over. So we settle down to our task in hand. Lift, pinch, sqeeze, pull, squirt. Lift, pinch, squeeze, squirt. 

Wait! Don't keep the first bit of milk, let it go onto the ground as it might not be too clean. Okay, with rinsed bucket I assume the position back beneath the mountain of flesh and bones we call Mabel. Again. Lift, pinch, squeeze, pull, squirt. Left, right, left, right. Rest. Again, again, again...rest. We almost have a quart. Yes we can do it, but what's this? Mabel's going ballistic. She's pushing back against the 2 by 4 restraing her rump. The rails at her sides are swelling. The chute is about to burst. Gravel flies from cloven feet in all directions including into the milk bucket. Quickly I rise and nearly succomb to my urge to run before the explosion hits, but no she's scared. She's sacred. She's my dear friend. She's out of food! So I gentle the beast with the steadying force of a farmer's hand on the quivering flesh of an immensely strong, but simple friend. The hands that Mabel has just allowed to be elevated into the ranks of the initiated. I release her from bondage, and her calf (Little Brother) as well, to finish the dance with the impecable innocence of perfect and timeless purity only a mother and child can create.

Thanks friends. Tomorrow will be another day!


----------



## willow_girl (Dec 7, 2002)

Thanks BD! Reading that made my day.


----------



## Janene in TX (Jun 27, 2004)

bdfarmer--what a great read!! You are a great story-teller. I look forward to hearing more of your 'excapades"!!


----------



## willow_girl (Dec 7, 2002)

> I'm still milking twice a day, but I get less at night.


this is natural, because at the morning milking, the cow has been at rest, making milk, all night. Also the calf has been less active and nursing during the night. 

Even on the farm where I work, where the calves are not kept with the cows, the cows give more milk, hence milking takes longer, in the ayem than the p.m.

(I wish my boss had told me this at the outset, because for months I compared my time with the night milker's, and thought I must be horribly slow because she always was finished a half-hour faster!)


----------



## bdfarmer (Aug 19, 2004)

On the one hand it seems foolish for a newbie to answer questions, but on the other hand to attempt an answer with so many savvy witnesses of vast experience close by (fellow post readers and seasoned cattle folk) to make corrections might be prudent. So I'll brave the waters once again and put in my two cents. Who knows, maybe I'll splurge and inundate y'all with a whole nickle's worth again.

Christina asked about the importance of spot-on consistancy regarding the rhythmic reoccurrance of milking at the same time each day (within 15 minutes or so). If the occassional need to do something else (a meeting, for instance) at the regular milking time makes milking a half hour, or so, earlier or later will it harm one's cow? Well, being full of balderdash and bullsh_t let me share my spasmadic efforts at consistancy so you can at least say, well at least I'm not as bad a Phyl with his sweet milkcow, Mabel.

Please note I've only been milking for about a week. Mabel is used to me and my slacker ways, so maybe I get away with more than is appropriate. We've been together her whole life of five plus years and she has come to accept a significant degree of inconsistancy from me. So much so that when I am regular she exudes such an air of relief and comfort my heart sings, if not my conscience. I have been known to be hours off course in handling my girls when putting them up at night or letting them out in the morning. So being within an hour or so of establishing a regular milking time is a major improvement for me, not that I am not aiming for better. Mabel seems to be doing okay and even hints at being eager. Anyway, I hope to hear more informed answers to your question as I guess I should probably know the possible worst case consequences of my time-challenged (mis)management.

Now for a note or two regarding rhythm of hand and teat. I was surprise to learn, for me, to go with the flow of Mabel's teats and quarters doesn't comply with my expected alternating of right and left. First her calf's pen is just off her's and he seems to be nursing her right quarters through the rails, so I only get to milk the left ones. The quarters' volume within and the teats openings without are not equal, nor are my left and right hands extracting their precious contents. 

So here I am left rear teat in left hand, left front teat in right hand. (I'm milking from Mabel's right side so I'm reaching across to the far side to do this.) The teat in my right hand has a much smaller opening, or at least it lets the milk out in a thinner longer stream. The teat in my left hand has a much wider stream and empties out before the front teat is even half way through. In fact, I have to ease back in squeezzing it too fast or the milk sprays out in a wide pattern and not a stream, which makes the job a bit messier. Never-the-less, at the beginning of milking I get up to three teats emtied with my left hand while the right hand is steadily sqeezing the front one empty. So far I've only got into this peculair rhythm a few times, but when it clicked into place did it ever feel good, not unlike when as a kid I would finally manage to pat my head and rub my stomach at the same time. For Mabel and me it's kind of like this: start squeezing right and left, continue squeezing right... empty left, release it, refill, pinch and squeeze, while still continuing to squeeze right. So it sort of ends up being rrrrriiiiigggghhhhtttt, left, left, left, rrrrriiiiigggghhhhtttt, left, left, left; if that makes any sense.

Again my experience is nigh on to zilch, so take any of my verbage with a generous dose of salt, but it's a starting point for me. And I don't get off the farm much (even in Hawaii) to talk farmin' with folks. Everyone around here seems busy with pursuits more tropical in nature involving beaches and tourist and the like. It is a pleasure to make the acquaintance of fellow folk of the soil (not surf). Thanks for indulging me.


----------



## Haggis (Mar 11, 2004)

Hand milking is hard enough if everything goes well and the cow is built for hand milking. My Jersey, Dorsey, has a very large low hanging fleshy udder and it's hard for me to just reach under; I'm 6'2". She also has tits that would compare with medium sized Bing cherries, both in length and diameter, while I have hands the size of hams.

I have to milk her with the tip of my thumb and two fingers, but I wouldn't take my money back for her. She's my sweetie.

I can still milk out her 2 gallons at the milking in 10 minutes with one hand; she's fidgety and I have to use a small sauce pan in one hand to keep her from knocking the bucket over.


----------



## willow_girl (Dec 7, 2002)

> I have to milk her with the tip of my thumb and two fingers,


Ohhh, mannn, my hands are cramping up just thinking about that!  

Probably the main reason I bought Twister (the second cow I brought home from the farm where I work) is that she has huge, long, squishy teats. Nearly every morning when I stripped her out to check her milk before I hooked her up to the machine at work, the thought crossed my mind, "Wow, this cow would be such a joy to hand milk!" 

When she was culled, I just couldn't resist.  

I can grab her teat with my whole hand, and I swear I get a half-pint of milk with every pull. I would DEFINTELY recommend to anyone thinking of getting a family cow to hand-milk ... try her out first if at all possible. A cow that will stand quietly ... that's half the battle right there. Having the right equipment to make the job easy is the other half!


----------



## Christina R. (Apr 22, 2004)

Things are going well on Corabelle's and my end. I'm still not sure if I should milk for all I'm worth to get the milk out fast or milk in a rhythm. She is a patient gal with me and the milk is oh so good!! Do any of you have a tip for her hooves as she comes into the milking stanchion? Once she's there, I brush at them with a broom. It really isn't a situation as she isn't really lifting up her hoof and sending stuff flying, but I get most stuff off as if she lifts it up when she shifts her legs, the propensity for straw caught in her hoof to land in the milk increases. I think the most comical thing is this 1000 # + hostein leaning against me as I'm milking her. If only she would realixe I am 1/10 her weight and it is ridiculous for her to feel the need to lean against me.


----------



## Haggis (Mar 11, 2004)

Dorsey leans on me too, but in this case she's 9 CWT and I'm a third of that so it's just cute. 

On Dorsey being fidgety and having short tits; when I bought her I knew that when I had several cows freshen I'd be using a milking machine. The problem is my cows aren't coming fresh..., so it's milk her by hand. I don't think Herself would appreciate washing all of that hardware for just the milk of one cow. It's better that I milk her by hand in spite of her idiosyncrasies.


----------



## willow_girl (Dec 7, 2002)

Christina, I think your Corabelle sounds like a real sweetie!  

And yeah, I've heard cleaning the equipment is more trouble than it's worth to milk a single cow.  

P.S. Christina, one way to keep the clumps of ... crud ... out of your bucket is to tie a piece of thin muslin loosely over the top. The crud won't fall into the milk, and you can rinse or change out the muslin out as needed.

Or do like Haggis does and milk with 2 buckets ... tie the muslin over the second bucket. Milk a small amount into the first bucket, dump it into the second, letting it strain through the muslin, which will also keep flies from drowning themselves in it. (I HATE that!) Also, if she sticks her foot in the small bucket, or whatever, you can dump out that little bit of milk, rinse, and start over without losing half your milk.


----------



## bdfarmer (Aug 19, 2004)

Dear Friends,

Thanks for the tip Willowgirl (love that name) about milking through a muslim cloth cover on the bucket. What a great idea. I suspect it'll cut down on foam too, and keeping the komakazi flies out will be a real plus. Unfortunately I often have a problem with excessive manure on Mabel's hind-end (thighs, hocks, hooves, switch and udder) from bedding at night in her 10'x8' stall. I've been hosing her down prior to milking, but then I have a lot of wiping down to prevent liquid dripping (belly) or splattering (switch or hooves) onto me or into the milk bucket. I use two buckets of soapy water to clean the udder and teats and often 6 or more washclothes and towels. Now I'm leaving a towel wrapped around the switch during milking too.

I've got to improve my filtering and bottling process. Currently I rubber band a 6.5" paper filter onto a 1 gallon jar and pour the milk from my stock pot through it. It kind'a clogs up before filling the jar though. I spill a lot doing this and also pouring from the gallon jar into half gallon jars.

I've been using Haggis's two bucket approach, but with both hands (usually) and all fingers. I forgot to bring my sauce pan down the other day. I ended up milking straight into my stock pot and had a pleasing outcome (fortunately). I didn't keep stopping to empty one pan into the other so got a better longer rhythm going and it's wider so easier to hit. Mabel (bless her mighty heart) relaxed more without having me start, stop, reposition myself and pan, and start again. She let down more milk and fussed less.

It sure does seem that the more steady and consistant I am the more she is too. I've decided 10 minutes must be the magic number for milking time. Many verteran milkers keeps refering to it. Dirk van Loon goes so far as to say in his book, The Family Cow that the hormonal flow that triggers contraction of the alveole which push milk out into cisterns above the treats only lasts for basically ten minutes. I've been watching my time and noticed I get about 80-90% of the milk out in the first ten minutes. It takes me another 5-10 mintues to get the remaining 10-20%. That's when Mabel is most likely to really start acting up.

I'm only milking two quarters in the morning and am getting 1 to 1.25 gallons. (The calf nurses the other two through the stall rails.) So I guess I should be taking only 5 minutes to milk half an udder! I sure do have a sense that Mabel's milk let down is being more responsive to my growing confidence and proficency. I can't believe it took me three lactations to finally get this together. Once I get a little better I'm going to add a couple of 2" by 2" rails to foil the calf and fill the bucket! 

One week into it and feeling good. 
Thanks everyone, Phyl


----------



## Christina R. (Apr 22, 2004)

The cheesecloth over the bucket is working great. I took a wooden embroidery hoop (the side that you open to adjust) and I use that to hold it on. For a milk strainer, I use a canning funnel I got at Ace Hardware (for about $6.00) and slip the filter in that. I put that on a gallon jar (sun tea jar also works).

The milking is going faster, but I still can't wait till the point where she "dumps her milk" begins to happen.


----------



## willow_girl (Dec 7, 2002)

Glad you found the strainer suggestion useful.  

Good idea about using an embroidery hoop! That would be more secure than string. What I do is milk into one of those 5-quart pails that ice cream comes in. I punch a hole in the snap-on top and cut a big ring in it, leaving about an inch of plastic all around the edges. Then I put my muslin over the mouth of the bucket, and snap the ring on to hold it in place.  

P.S. thank you BD for the compliment on my name. I chose it because I used to build willow furniture, back when I lived in a swamp! Now I'm atop a hill, so no more willow! :waa:


----------



## Haggis (Mar 11, 2004)

I'm still milking into my 6" wide by 3" deep sauce pan and then pouring the milk into the 13 quart bucket. Herself likes the idea of putting a straining cloth over the bucket and holding it place with one of those jumbe rubber bands, so I can see that in the very near future.

By-the by, when the spirit moves me I make Diamond Willow chairs with snowshoe webbing in the seats and back.

Tomorrow I finally start my new grandson's red oak cradle. If I don't get it done within the next week, I think the family is going to shun me.


----------



## Lueder (Sep 9, 2004)

And yeah, I've heard cleaning the equipment is more trouble than it's worth to milk a single cow.  

We have a single cow (Daisy). She is a real gem. We bought her a year ago from a family that was hand milking. When she freshened she was giving 6.5 gallons. When we bought her she had dropped to 4.5 gallons. We tried milking her that first night and about died. I had no stanchon and was trying to milk her in an open field with my son holding her head and my daughter on one side and me on the other milking for all we were worth. After an hour and a half, we had gotten about a gallon maybe a gallon and a half. We gave up. The next night, our friends that we bought her from came and loaned us their stanchon and milked her for us. This continued for 2 weeks until the electric milker came. What a blessing!!! It is a lot to clean but only takes about 15 minutes per milking. When she was giving 4.5 gallons a day it seemed more worth it but when she dropped in production to a gallon 2x a day it was a huge pain. We dropped to one milking a day then. We had some problems with the milker one day and tried to hand milk and she would have nothing to do with it. She prefers the milker over us tugging on her teats. 

I do have an unrelated question: We AI'd in November, January, and March. She didn't take at all. We finally threw a bull in with her about 5 weeks ago. They were very interested in each other the first day to day and a half. Since then, I have seen no interest on either of their parts. Why wouldn't she be taking (especially if she doesn't take this time naturally) and has anyone else had this problem? I will mention that we bought her during her first freshening. She is only about 2 1/2 years old.--Lueder


----------



## Jim in MO (May 10, 2002)

I want to thank you folks for this thread. It reminds me that although milking can be tedious and tiring at times it is also enjoyable. I'm milking two cows by hand at the moment a jersey/holstein cross and a full jersey that we bought about a month ago. I guess since I'm used to milking it's not so bad but at times it does get to be a little much. I do have a milking machine but don't use much because I want the cows to be used to a human touch.

I tend to do most of the milking with my left hand due to an old injury that keeps the right arm a wee bit slower that the left but I still manage. I also have a young dairy shorthorn heifer that will be freshened in 18 months or so and I imagine I might be more interested in using the milker then.

One thing though, I've never milked in a stanchion, I just give them a little grain and few range cubes to keep them busy while I milk, this seems to work fine, that and I talk about baseball to them as well. What does everyone else do to keep their girls happy while they milk them?

Jim in MO


----------



## Haggis (Mar 11, 2004)

I haven't been using a stanchion. I went to a lot of trouble and no little expense to find a half dozen or so of them but have not set them up yet. My milking cow(s) just have a neck chain that I tie off to an 18" swiveled chain on cattle panel, I put down a feed pan and some grain, sit on a five gallon bucket, and go to work.


----------



## Jim in MO (May 10, 2002)

Yep the ever popular 5 gallon bucket. I don't know what I would do without them :haha: 

When I was convinced that I just had to have have stanchions I drove up to Harmony MN and picked up 8 of them for $10.00 apiece from a guy who was tearing down an old dairy barn. Probably could have got them for free if I talked enough. I still have them stacked waiting to be sanded and repainted. I suppose I might use them some day or maybe sell them. Maggie, my jersey/holstien cross is a bottle baby that I raised and is so gentle that I don't ever see the time that I will need one and Millie, our jersey, is so gentle and patient that I just let her eat her grain and as you said Haggis "sit down and go to work"

Don't you find that fresh jersey milk makes the best ice cream?


----------



## Haggis (Mar 11, 2004)

I don't get a lot of ice cream. Herself keeps telling me that if I get any fatter I'm going to have to become a deputy sheriff, or move to Japan and take up 'raslin'.

She does give me a glass or two of butter milk each week, but most of it goes to the chickens; it just grieves my heart to see them varmints slurpin' down my butter milk, but I'll get my revenge once they've layed out.

Now with this Bill Clinton thing Herself is on the rant again. I now know what killed the dinosaurs; they got nagged to death for packin' around a few extra pounds.


----------



## Jim in MO (May 10, 2002)

Ahhh buttermilk, truly the nectar of the gods, but like you I to am limited in intake of this truly magnificent liquid wonder. At this time a good portion of our milk is going to a few feeder pigs to speed them along to become another delicacies fresh bacon and sausage. 

But occasionally I am blessed with the joy of homemade raspberry ice cream and during that brief moment in time I know that God is truly smiling on me.
:worship: 

Jim in MO


----------



## UpstateNY (Aug 3, 2004)

Ahhhh milking by hand, the memories it brings. Growing up we had a milk cow for many years (the actual cow changed and we had about 4 milk cows during that time). My brother did the morning milking (As I remember some very cold frosty mornings, but not as many frosty mornings as bitter cold nights remain in my memory). All but one were good milkers. (the one does not count as she is a story in herself. The only mistake we made with her was NOT shooting her before loading to bring to our house.) back to milking memories.
You need a stall, a bucket, a stool, a moist cloth, a hat, and a cat. Oh yea and a cow!! ok. Put some grain and hay in front of the stall before letting the cow into the barn. If the feed is there she goes in and starts eating. You can then close the stanchen (we had a vertical board that that flopped over to close her head in.). If the feed is not there she goes in and looks, then while you are running to get some grain she backs out, poops all over the barn, eats a rag off the shelf (spilling everything that was on the rag) and breaks at least one thing (pitchfork, shovel etc.) So, cow is now in the stall and eating (she finished the grain quick but the hay kept her for a while), now the bullying begins. No matter which side you step into to milk her, she will want to lean on that wall of the stall. (We always milked on the right-hand side as you were standing behind the cow, her right side. Don't know why, just did and the few times I went on the left she leaned that way, so it is NOT that cows always lean to the right). So right fist into her just behind the ribs , left elbow in her flank, (because your holding the bucket, rag and stool in your left hand.), now push!!. When she steps away, swing the stool down to the floor, under your butt, bending to sit and place the front top of your head in her side and slide it down till your sitting on the stool. DO NOT MOVE YOUR HEAD!!! Holding cow away and on the correct side of the stall with your head, left hand comes around the left leg with the bucket. Do not hit your knee as this causes the bucket to swing out and hit her legs causing her to kick. (This being very bad because at that same moment you are lowering your head and grabbing your knee causing your face to be closer and more exposed to the kick). Now with the bucket on the floor under her, use the outside of your right foot to slide the bucket forward a bit. (keep foot near bucket). Using the wet rag wipe and clean her utter. flop rag up over left shoulder and across the top board of the stall. (DO NOT put a nail on the inside wall of the stall as a rag hanger. In time you will hang more flesh then rag on that nail.) DO NOT remove your head from her side at anytime during these steps. Now, taking a teat (any teat) in your hand (either hand) make a ring with your thumb and finger near the top and squeeze down. (this takes practice and muscles not found on non-milking humans) Squeeze the selected teat a couple times until milks starts to squirt out. Bend teat back so it is pointed between her hind legs and squirt a couple (3 or so) streams of milk out towards the barn floor. (This will attract the cat) Do this with each of the four teats, (you can change hand selection with each new teat and order is not imoprtant, just make sure that each one is working and the cat has gotten at least 2, though 3 or 4 is better, squirts of milk from each teat.) You are now ready to milk. DO NOT move your head!! Using the inside of the right foot and your right hand to steady it, slide the bucket back under her utter, not directly under but slightly (an inch maybe) in front of the the most forward teat you will be milking. Your left foot should now be right against her near hind leg. (putting you foot in front of hers is good, but can get tight. at least have a knee in front of her hind leg or in someway have your left leg in contact with her hind leg to warn of any moving of that leg.) Now the most contriversial aspect of milking by hand. Do what is right for you!!! I hate to sound like a typical liberal, but in this case you must do what makes you feel most comfortable and ignore what others may say or think. You need to grasp one teat in each hand. We all used a cross pattern. Example: near hind teat in left hand and far front teat in right hand (the pattern I always used). You can take both hinds, both front or both nears, both fars or cross the other way. The only thing I would not suggest is crossing your arms, ie. near hind in right hand and far front in left. Now squeeze milk out with one hand (aiming at the bucket now) while at the same time setting the ring with your thumb and finger on the other teat. When milk stops, release the hand on that teat and squeeze with the other and reset ring with finger and thumb on the first teat. Repeat this over and over and over, back and forth until those two quarters are loose. DO NOT remove you head during this time. When done with the first two quarters do the other two in the same fashion. When done take a couple squirts from each teat as before towards the barn floor for the cat. Check to make sure each is working and each quarter is milked out. Now the next trick is getting out of the stall. The cow has been patiently waiting for a chance to step in the bucket. (some newbies confuse this with "being good") DO NOT REMOVE YOUR HEAD FROM HER SIDE! Slide the bucket towards you and to the left, using the foot and hand method (inside right foot, left hand now). Lift the bucket with the left hand, slide left leg clear to move bucket up and out from under her. Now, put right elbow on her side to replace your head you lift head, stand up, left hand taking bucket clear of the cow and right arm pushing on the cow. (The right arm is important now because it keeps pressure on her side and helps you to straighten your back to an upright position after being bent over for so long.) Keeping your right arm/hand on the cow step out of the stall and into the barn. DO NOT set the bucket down on the barn floor (remember.. the cat). Set th bucket in a high secure cat resistant place with a cover over it. Get the can of bag balm. step back into the stall and rub a bit of bag balm onto teats and lower utter. (it is good for your hands also so it is kind of like the one teat caring for the other hand thing or something like that.) Grab your stool and rag (grab the rag or rags you forgot from the last milkings also) and your done!!. Let the cow out, clean the barn put the bag balm can where you are sure to not be able to find it in the morning, put the rag/s with the other rags that you remembered to take out of the stall but not into the house, grab your bucket of fresh warm milk, shut off the lights and head into the house. Where surely someone will offer to get you a cup of coffee instead of making you get your own. It tokk more then ten minutes to write and to do. All told beginning to end Milking the one cow took about a half hour to 40 minutes. Add coffee time and straining time in the house you better be heading to the barn a good hour before you need to be in a shower or your favorite TV show comes on.


----------



## willow_girl (Dec 7, 2002)

> What does everyone else do to keep their girls happy while they milk them?


Well, I sing along to the radio when I'm milking cows at work.

My husband says he's surprised it doesn't curdle the milk, and our farm should be #1 in the state for cottage cheese production!  

:haha:


----------



## Karen (Apr 17, 2002)

Oh yes, the first hand milking! I could write book! It would be a comedy! I'll not go into it now, but let's say the cow won. I swore it would never work out, but it will. I promise. It just takes you _and_ the cow getting into the routine and getting know each other. One day it will as natural as anything.

Lueder, with regards to your cow not taking. I'm willing to bet your just not getting her when she is in heat. A cow has to bred while she is in her true "standing heat" cycle *only* or she won't take. With some cows it's really hard to tell for sure. Some breeds are harder to tell than others and some cows come in heat at night so you miss it completely. Remember that when a cow comes into heat, you only have window of approx. 8-12 hours to breed her (some people will tell you 24 hours but that is strenghting it if your paying for it. If it's free it's worth a try). That's why you always have to have the arrangements made with AI guy or owner of the bull ready and everyone is on standby. 

Standing to be mounted is considered the primary sign of heat, and unfortuanetly the only way you know for sure. There are also kits available now but the cost is just prohibitive for a one or two cows. There are some other signs, however. Most cows show increased interest just before the actual standing heat in about 6 - 24 prior to the standing heat. Watch for these signs; although keep in mind these aren't a sure bet, it's a least a signal that "maybe":
restless behaviour, bawling 
shortened feeding time 
aggressive behaviour, butting 
swollen, reddened vulva and sniffing, licking of vulva 
mucus discharge 
withholding of milk 
increased urination 
mounting other cows 
chin pressing on other cows​


----------



## breezynosacek (Nov 7, 2003)

willow_girl said:


> Don't worry about closing your fingers in the right order -- if you hold out your hand and squeeze it shut, you'll see that your hand naturally closes from the top to the bottom. You have to force it to make it close the other way.
> 
> OK, how can I describe this? Basically, you're pinching the duct in the teat off at the top, using the *base* of your thumb and first finger, then you're squeezing the milk out by pressing the rest of your fingers against the meaty part of your hand (beneath the thumb).
> 
> ...


Well, thank you very much! I thought with carpel tunnel I could never have anything I would have to milk!

Maybe there is hope here yet!


----------



## willow_girl (Dec 7, 2002)

> Well, thank you very much! I thought with carpel tunnel I could never have anything I would have to milk!
> 
> Maybe there is hope here yet!


Breezy, milking will definitely keep that CT flared up ... but then so will gardening, shoveling, scrubbing, painting, typing, etc. etc. etc. There is just no escaping it! I figure if my hands are going to be numb, burning and painful 24/7 anyway, I'd rather get something accomplished than just sit around whining about it.  (BTW I am not saying that you do!!! Just that I myself have a natural tendency to shirking and whining ... HEH! HEH! ... but I do try to overcome it, with a little help from DH, who gives me regular kicks in the butt!  )

It definitely takes awhile to build up strength in your hands. When I first started on the farm, it was really rough for awhile. But someone (actually it was Countrygrrrrrl from the GC forum  ) who suggested I check out some Feldenkrais (sp?) exercises that are supposed to provide natural (non-surgical) relief. I did, and found that one exercise called for squeezing the hand into a fist, thumb up, and flexing it downward ... which is pretty close to the action involved in milking, right?! 

I decided to stick with it in hopes that milking actually would IMPROVE my CT, and guess what -- it has!!! My hands are TONS stronger than they used to be, so ordinary household activities don't bother me as much anymore. 

The only drawback is that all the wear and tear has caused some loss of what I'd call fine motor control. I used to be able to write (handwriting) pretty legibly, but now I can barely manage a scrawl, and just writing out checks and addressing envelopes to pay the monthly bills is excruciating. :waa: OTOH, I can strip-check 150 cows (that's about 4 pulls per teat, times 4 teats) six days a week with virtually no problem! Given the choice, I'd rather be able to do the "hard" stuff than the "easy" stuff.  And typing has never bothered me, even when I had office jobs -- thank goodness!

I would suggest getting wrist braces for your hands if you don't already have some (Ace bandages are good too, and cheaper!) and using them religiously the first 6 months. OTC painkillers are good; I stay on aspirin pretty much around the clock, but hey, it's going to thin my blood and keep me from having a stroke when I get old, right?  A doctor a long time ago warned me about using too much Motrin or Tylenol so I try to stay away from those. (They don't work any better than aspirin anyway.) 

I have talked to people who benefitted from treatment (surgery) and others who didn't ... some who ended up worse than they started out! Right now I have no medical insurance, so medical care is out of the question ... just got to keep on keepin' on! I'd much rather have CT than, say, a back problem, though!

Oh, one more thing regarding milking ... you may have to milk one-handed, giving the other hand a break or shaking it to get the blood flowing ... hey, it just takes a little longer, right? You can also leave a calf on the cow, which cuts your milk down, but also greatly reduces your milking time, or allows you to milk just once a day. Where there's a will, there's a way!


----------



## Lueder (Sep 9, 2004)

When we butchered Sir Loin, poor Daisy became a lonely only, with only goats for company. The guy that AI'd her did the shot to bring her in to heat and then checked her for signs that she was in heat before AI'ing. The next time he brought one of his prize cows with calf over and did the thing on the back so we would know when she was ridden. When that thing was all red he came over and insemenated her. Again she didn't take. When we brought the bull over, they were very interested in each other for the first day to day and a half. My AI guy was supposed to check her Monday but he never showed up. We took the bull back to our friends yesterday but I did buy a little heifer so that Daisy wouldn't be lonely. She is a beef breed (don't know which one though). My DH and I talked about it and if she gets a thumbs up from Jan the AI guy we will keep her and breed her so we can get some good beef calves. She should also provide some good indication that Daisy is coming into heat or not. BTW, we named the heifer Brownie because she is the color of a blond brownie. LOL


----------



## Ken in Minn (Nov 10, 2002)

Hi all
For those with the carpel tunel thing. go to the local choirpracter. Both of my boys had this problem. the Doc just took hold of the hand, streched out the arm, and held the arm,half way between the wrist and elbow, gave a slight twist, now all ok. The medical Docs are making a bundle on this carpel tunnel.
The choirpracter Said it is just a bone out of place. check it out, it is a lot cheaper then an operation. And it don't even hurt. Just my two cents worth.

Ken in Minn


----------



## texascornbread (Sep 19, 2004)

HELLO FIRST TIME BLUES.. please stay with it..milking the first few days is hard, but after my boys milked for just a few days they could milk her out in 10 minites. thats one boy on each side, and 4 gals . at first there hands were sore, but after one week of milking they hurt everybodys hands at church hand shaking them. the other boys in there sunday school class miss judged them and left with chruched hands.. milking will make your grip like steel, or gripe until you do.we do still need help somtimes, so now we keep 4 calfs on her at all times.. when we are ready for more milk we just pen up the calfs the night before.then in the morrin we milk for us.. also we went on vaction for a week.. the calfs keep her going.. as far as kicking goes, dont put the feed down until your ready to milk. other wise she will finish up and get bored and cut up. also stay calm. if your up set and griping you'll up set the cow. we do like some others we use a small plastic container and pore it into a larger bucket,so if she kicks you dont lose all the milk.we have milked for three years now and like the milk we drink.. nothin like strtaight cream over your cereal, and chug a lugging milk with no worry of 5.00 per gal.stay with it.. if you have to go to a dairy and get sum calfs cheap to help..


----------



## Don Armstrong (May 8, 2002)

Leg rope.

Rope from the other side of her (from you) around her near leg. Wrap the rope round her leg, then make a loose knot with a doubled piece of the rope, catching her tail in it as well. She can't kick the bucket, so to speak. Also, if she wants to urinate or defaecate, she'll try to lift her tail. If she can't, you'll at least get advance warning, and she may decide against it. When you've finished, just tug the end of the loop, and the knot round her leg will undo.


----------



## birdman1 (Oct 3, 2011)

your doing pretty good ;always talk to your cow soft even tones pet her often I only let my cow in with the calf 2 times a day when i start milking ,this gets her to come in from pasture with a full sack i let her in the barn she heads right to the manger as the calf sucks one side I milk the other she lets her milk down. old timers say don't use the milk for the first 5 days shes pretty good about standing at the manger as long as the grain holds out .you just got to learn her personality and she has to learn that you are her pal some cows are kind and some are mean . remmber she is a lot heavyer than you and innocent movements like fighting flies or humping up to urinate can hurt you you don't want her to step on your toe really watch out when she comes into heat she may try to ride you .other than she likes a steady routine and likes to come in at about the same time


----------



## willow_girl (Dec 7, 2002)

WOW, it was weird to see this old thread resurrected from all the way back in 2004! 

My Dawnna and her daughter Libby-Belle both are gone now ... love you, girls, RIP.


----------



## gone-a-milkin (Mar 4, 2007)

RIP Dawnna and Libby-Belle.

Ancient threads are weird, for sure. LOL


----------



## Chramosta (Jan 19, 2012)

I've learned a lot from reading your posts. Thanks! We're getting our first milk cow this spring. I have a few of my own questions, if someone feels like giving me some advice, I'd appreciate it.

After a cow has her calf, how soon do you start milking it? We plan to keep the cow and calf together, and I understand that the first substance is colostrum, so when is it best to start milking for the household?

How long does unpasteurized milk last in the fridge before its no good anymore?

What kind of containers are best for storing the milk and cream in? I plan to get steel pails for milking, but other than that I don't know what supplies is best to have.

Thanks again!


----------

