# COVID-19 Vaccine



## Nevada (Sep 9, 2004)

I received the first covid vaccination shot today (Monday, 01/25/2021). I got the Pfizer vaccine. Second dose is scheduled for Monday, 02/15/2021. Shots were sponsored by the Southern Nevada Health District, were given by the NV National Guard, and local fire department paramedics were present in the event of a serious adverse reaction.

They had us wait 15 minutes before checkout, to monitor for adverse reactions. I didn't observe anyone having a reaction while I was there. It went pretty quickly. I was only in the building for about 45 minutes.

There has been a lot of talk on the news about a covid passport of some sort, to officially demonstrate that you have been immunized. They gave me this card, but I don't know if it is all I'll get.


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## po boy (Jul 12, 2010)

Congratulations 2069


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## Nevada (Sep 9, 2004)

po boy said:


> Congratulations 2069


Yes, interestingly they told me to fill-in my own name. It would be simple enough to fill-in "Claus, Santa" or any other name. It doesn't seem so official...


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## Danaus29 (Sep 12, 2005)

My dental student got his first dose of the vaccine a couple weeks ago. He hasn't had any side effects from it.

Did you get a pamphlet describing the type of vaccine and the effectiveness? My dental student was under the impression it used a dead virus to activate the immune system.


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## Alice In TX/MO (May 10, 2002)

He obviously doesn’t read the news.


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## Danaus29 (Sep 12, 2005)

Alice In TX/MO said:


> He obviously doesn’t read the news.


He read the pamphlet he got when he signed the paperwork for the vaccine.


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## Alice In TX/MO (May 10, 2002)

Which vaccine did he receive?


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## Nevada (Sep 9, 2004)

Danaus29 said:


> He hasn't had any side effects from it.


All was fine until 7 or 8 hours after the shot, when I got a really sore arm at the injection site. It woke me up a few times last night after rolling over on it. It's still pretty sore this morning.


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## Alice In TX/MO (May 10, 2002)

None of the Covid injections in use are killed virus.









Understanding How COVID-19 Vaccines Work


Learn how COVID-19 vaccines work and develop immunity to the virus.




www.cdc.gov


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## wr (Aug 10, 2003)

Congratulations. You said several times that you were looking hard for a way to move up the list and it looks like you found it.


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## Alice In TX/MO (May 10, 2002)

I don't know who that was directed to or what it means.


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## po boy (Jul 12, 2010)

Directed to 2069


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## Nevada (Sep 9, 2004)

wr said:


> Congratulations. You said several times that you were looking hard for a way to move up the list and it looks like you found it.


Well, I reasoned that without a spleen that I should be moved up, but being 70 years old made me eligible anyway.

I was contacted by the city through email, since I pay my utilities online, so I didn't need to go looking for the vaccine.


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## wr (Aug 10, 2003)

Nevada must be handling things a bit different than you previously expected because you'd mentioned previously that you expected a much longer wait because of your position on the list. 

Given the shortages of vaccines for front line workers, I'm sure you feel very blessed.


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## NEAlabama (Sep 30, 2014)

My son works at a hospital and many workers have received the Moderna vaccine. The first dose seemed to have only arm soreness, but my son said there was a pretty nasty reaction to the second dose reported by many on staff. He said 12 hours after the second dose he was really sick for a day, and so were many others. Just FYI...


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## Danaus29 (Sep 12, 2005)

Alice, he got the Moderna one. I didn't ask to see the pamphlet. He said he got the shot and I asked if it was supposed to prevent covid or just lessen the symptoms. He said he thought it would prevent it because it was made with the killed virus. I don't know what he read or where he got the info. He didn't get a sore arm which he expected so hopefully all goes well for him after the second shot. 

I will ask Mom to send me a copy of the pamphlet. Pop is scheduled to get his shot this weekend.


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## Nevada (Sep 9, 2004)

wr said:


> Nevada must be handling things a bit different than you previously expected because you'd mentioned previously that you expected a much longer wait because of your position on the list.
> 
> Given the shortages of vaccines for front line workers, I'm sure you feel very blessed.


That's true. The governor lowered the second group age from 75 to 70, which included me. Previously it was unclear when I would be eligible because they were waiting to see how the 75 and older vaccines went. I do feel somewhat blessed to be getting the vaccine this early in the process.


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## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

Looks like Nevada has a plan and is instituting it well. They are revising it as need.










Nevada to prioritize elderly, essential workforce concurrently under new COVID vaccination rollout plan – The Nevada Independent


Nevada is moving to a new COVID-19 vaccination strategy that will allow the state to distribute doses to essential workers and priority segments of the population in tandem.




thenevadaindependent.com





"Nevada is moving to a new COVID-19 vaccination strategy that will allow the state to distribute doses to essential workers and priority segments of the population in tandem.

Under the new, highly anticipated plan, which state vaccination officials detailed at a press conference with Gov. Steve Sisolak on Monday, the state will shift from its previous system of vaccination “tiers” to a new dual “lane” strategy, which will allow workforce vaccination to occur at the same time as mass vaccination of the general population. Each of those lanes, however, will still be divided into priority groups — with public safety workers at the top of the workforce sector and elderly Nevadans at the top of the general population group."


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## Nevada (Sep 9, 2004)

painterswife said:


> Looks like Nevada has a plan and is instituting it well. They are revising it as need.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Utah has an interesting strategy. They're giving priority to K-12 students so schools can reopen.


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## Hiro (Feb 14, 2016)

Nevada said:


> Utah has an interesting strategy. They're giving priority to K-12 students so schools can reopen.


I didn't think of any of them were approved for children in the US. Pfizer >16 and Moderna >18...meh, someone else can look it up.


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## Nevada (Sep 9, 2004)

Hiro said:


> I didn't think of any of them were approved for children in the US. Pfizer >16 and Moderna >18...meh, someone else can look it up.


I didn't say it was a good strategy, I just said it was interesting. lol


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## bamabear44 (Jan 30, 2018)

I still don't think I will take the shot, read where it can cause Ampholytic shock. which everyone mistakes for being allergic to the shot, too many chemicals injected into your body, still researching, not going anywhere much at all , wearing a mask, hand sanitizer. and all.


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## Nevada (Sep 9, 2004)

bamabear44 said:


> I still don't think I will take the shot, read where it can cause Ampholytic shock. which everyone mistakes for being allergic to the shot, too many chemicals injected into your body, still researching, not going anywhere much at all , wearing a mask, hand sanitizer. and all.


Ampholytic is a property related to electrolytic chemistry, These vaccines are pretty organic so I would be surprised if it was an issue. I tried googling but didn't find anything.

A lot has been said about allergic reactions from covid vaccines, but they are rare. The CDC is reporting about 11 cases per million vaccinated people. That's an incredibly small number.


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## Alice In TX/MO (May 10, 2002)

Anaphylactic?


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## Nevada (Sep 9, 2004)

Alice In TX/MO said:


> Anaphylactic?


Sounds more like it.


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## wr (Aug 10, 2003)

Nevada said:


> Ampholytic is a property related to electrolytic chemistry, These vaccines are pretty organic so I would be surprised if it was an issue. I tried googling but didn't find anything.
> 
> A lot has been said about allergic reactions from covid vaccines, but they are rare. The CDC is reporting about 11 cases per million vaccinated people. That's an incredibly small number.


It's hard to tell how often it's happening because they aren't releasing much further data at this time and realistically, there is no point in releasing more incomplete results. 

A couple people in our local nursing home quickly after their first vaccination but as things go, all of their cause of death was simply listed as Covid. 

Their deaths don't change my opinion of the vaccine and I've always wondered if it might be a bit too much for some of the more physically frail but instead of at sending the information for further review, the results shift and nobody gets answers.


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## Alice In TX/MO (May 10, 2002)

Here is information about anaphylactic shock and the injection 









Allergic Reactions Including Anaphylaxis...


As of January 3, 2021, a total of 20,346,372 cases of coronavirus disease 2019 (COVID-19) and 349,246 associated deaths have been reported in the United States.




www.cdc.gov


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## Nevada (Sep 9, 2004)

Alice In TX/MO said:


> Here is information about anaphylactic shock and the injection
> 
> 
> 
> ...


That article confirms my post #23 of 11 allergic reactions per million doses.

_*During December 14–23, 2020, monitoring by the Vaccine Adverse Event Reporting System detected 21 cases of anaphylaxis after administration of a reported 1,893,360 first doses of the Pfizer-BioNTech COVID-19 vaccine (11.1 cases per million doses) *_

That's 11 cases, not 11 deaths.


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## Alice In TX/MO (May 10, 2002)

Yes, I agree.

However, having been close to death from anaphylactic shock one, I'm not inclined to risk it again.


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## Nevada (Sep 9, 2004)

Alice In TX/MO said:


> However, having been close to death from anaphylactic shock one, I'm not inclined to risk it again.


Do you know the exact cause?


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## no really (Aug 7, 2013)

The head of the the EMS in our little burg and the only paramedic in the county, was told by his doctors not to take the vaccine due to his allergies.


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## 101pigs (Sep 18, 2018)

Nevada said:


> Yes, interestingly they told me to fill-in my own name. It would be simple enough to fill-in "Claus, Santa" or any other name. It doesn't seem so official...


Here people getting the shot has to show an ID. So they know who you are. Same all over accorting ot the government in other states.


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## 101pigs (Sep 18, 2018)

no really said:


> The head of the the EMS in our little burg and the only paramedic in the county, was told by his doctors not to take the vaccine due to his allergies.


Same all over the country. If people have certain health problems they should not take the shot.


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## Alice In TX/MO (May 10, 2002)

Nevada,
Yes, a single yellow jacket sting that occurred in my own backyard in Austin, Texas, during the summer between my seventh and eight grade years. Almost died. Looked like the scary dude in the film, The Goonies, due to swelling.

I don't know the exact chemical makeup of yellow jacket venom. It was injected into my arm, much like a vaccine. Here's what I found:
"Bee and wasp venom contains a cocktail of substances, including mast-cell degranulation protein, hyaluronidase, acid phosphatase and lysophospholipase, histamine, dopamine, norepinephrine, and serotonin. Melittin facilitates ion diffusion across cell membranes, breaking down the resting potential and leading to the sensation of pain. Melittin also works with phospholipase to hemolyze red blood cells.91,97 Apamin, a peptide, is the major neurotoxin in honeybees. It is permeable to the blood–brain barrier and thus has direct CNS effects. Peripherally, it selectively and potently affects the potassium permeability of cell membranes and causes convulsions when injected into rats.
"Wasp Venom - an overview | ScienceDirect Topics.

It's simply another piece of the jigsaw puzzle of my life that leads me to the decision not to get the Covid injection.


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## Nevada (Sep 9, 2004)

no really said:


> The head of the the EMS in our little burg and the only paramedic in the county, was told by his doctors not to take the vaccine due to his allergies.


If I were him I would follow my doctor's advice.


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## no really (Aug 7, 2013)

Nevada said:


> If I were him I would follow my doctor's advice.


He definitely is, even if it costs him his job.


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## Nevada (Sep 9, 2004)

no really said:


> He definitely is, even if it costs him his job.


He probably shouldn't be working during the pandemic. The county likely has legal liability if they let him work.


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## no really (Aug 7, 2013)

Nevada said:


> He probably shouldn't be working during the pandemic. The county likely has legal liability if they let him work.


Problem is without him we have no EMS, 60+ miles for the nearest ambulance service to service this area. County is attempting to get someone to take his place, he is 66 years old and looking to retire. But it's a large county with a small population, not many want to live here. Very far from any type of entertainment or shopping.


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## Hiro (Feb 14, 2016)

Nevada said:


> He probably shouldn't be working during the pandemic. The county likely has legal liability if they let him work.


Nah, Fauci is still working, or getting paid depending on your viewpoint.


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## Nevada (Sep 9, 2004)

no really said:


> Problem is without him we have no EMS, 60+ miles for the nearest ambulance service to service this area. County is attempting to get someone to take his place, he is 66 years old and looking to retire. But it's a large county with a small population, not many want to live here. Very far from any type of entertainment or shopping.


Been there -- done that. I was once an EMT in a rural county in California. More people need to step up.

I know it's not easy. People have lives they want to live. They have better things to do.


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## no really (Aug 7, 2013)

Nevada said:


> Been there -- done that. I was once an EMT in a rural county in California. More people need to step up.
> 
> I know it's not easy. People have lives they want to live. They have better things to do.


I have an advanced EMT certification and volunteer when I can. But not many people want to live in an area where the closest grocery store, fast food joint or entertainment is 60+ miles away. Problem is the tax base just isn't there for competing with other towns.


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## Nevada (Sep 9, 2004)

no really said:


> I have an advanced EMT certification and volunteer when I can. But not many people want to live in an area where the closest grocery store, fast food joint or entertainment is 60+ miles away. Problem is the tax base just isn't there for competing with other towns.


Sounds like you're in a position to get your community to rally around your fire/rescue service.


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## no really (Aug 7, 2013)

Nevada said:


> Sounds like you're in a position to get your community to rally around your fire/rescue service.


I do voice my opinion but it all comes down to the money and let me be very clear the community is very supportive but there is only so much that can be done. Right now the JP (justice of the peace) drives the ambo, for a very small wage, just to keep it legal. The Border Patrol started transporting non-emergency illegals to the closest town due to the costs and time incurred treating them by our service, that was a help.


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## Danaus29 (Sep 12, 2005)

Hiro said:


> I didn't think of any of them were approved for children in the US. Pfizer >16 and Moderna >18...meh, someone else can look it up.


I didn't look it up again but it has been said several times that most children will not be getting the vaccine because it has not been tested in children and very few get really sick anyway.

Here it is not the students but the school staff who will be getting the vaccine. They are getting it before people under the age of 75 and it will be a month before they move back to the general public.

I did look it up, children are the next group to be tested but curently one is for people over 18, the other for people over 16.









COVID Vaccines for Children Under 5: What Every Parent Needs to Know


Children as young as 6 months old can receive COVID vaccines.




www.cnet.com


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## bamabear44 (Jan 30, 2018)

Heard on the news that the newest strain of the covid is here in Alabama , which was supposedly coming from the UK>.. how does this travel so much, I have always thought it was airborne. Would the shot for Covid now still help prevent this, changing so much....


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## Nevada (Sep 9, 2004)

bamabear44 said:


> Heard on the news that the newest strain of the covid is here in Alabama


It's a new variant, not a new strain.


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## po boy (Jul 12, 2010)

Nevada said:


> It's a new variant, not a new strain.


It's a strain to keep up!


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## sharkerbaby (Jan 15, 2016)

Nevada said:


> It's a new variant, not a new strain.


If it's the one from the UK it's being recognized as a new strain. Important to understand, all strains are variants but not all variants are strains.

Should I be concerned about COVID-19 variants? Experts break it down

"A new strain occurs when a virus goes through one or more mutations that change its behavior in some way, but a variant develops when a virus goes through a mutation of any kind, explained Dr. Patricia Couto, an infectious disease physician at Orlando Health in Florida.

At this stage, she said she believes there's only enough data on the U.K. and Brazil variants to say that they are "for sure" new strains. Researchers also referred to a variant found in California as a strain."

"*U.K. variant*
The U.K. strain, called B.1.1.7, was first reported in the U.S. in late December, and it spreads more quickly and easily than other variants, according to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention. A CDC report from earlier this month found it could become the dominant strain in the U.S. as early as March. As of Jan. 26, there were 308 confirmed cases of this variant in 26 U.S. states. It's also spreading at high levels in Denmark and Scandinavia, Lopman said."


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## Nevada (Sep 9, 2004)

sharkerbaby said:


> If it's the one from the UK it's being recognized as a new strain. Important to understand, all strains are variants but not all variants are strains.
> 
> Should I be concerned about COVID-19 variants? Experts break it down
> 
> ...


From a practical standpoint, as least as it applies to the general public during this pandemic, if it's a variant you can expect at least some protection from existing vaccines. You can't expect protection if it's a new strain.


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## newfieannie (Dec 24, 2006)

i can get mine this week. i have to make the appointment next week. (tuesday i guess because monday is heritage day.) which i'm not because i'm not taking it. it's not transferable or i would pass it to my son. ~Georgia


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## bamabear44 (Jan 30, 2018)

they don't have any here......


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## Nevada (Sep 9, 2004)

Just returned from getting my second dose of the Pfizer vaccine. They put this sticker on my shirt as I left.


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## no really (Aug 7, 2013)

Nevada said:


> Just returned from getting my second dose of the Pfizer vaccine. They put this sticker on my shirt as I left.
> 
> View attachment 93900


That's so cute. 😊


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## DKJ (Jan 17, 2021)

Danaus29 said:


> Alice, he got the Moderna one. I didn't ask to see the pamphlet. He said he got the shot and I asked if it was supposed to prevent covid or just lessen the symptoms. He said he thought it would prevent it because it was made with the killed virus. I don't know what he read or where he got the info. He didn't get a sore arm which he expected so hopefully all goes well for him after the second shot.
> 
> I will ask Mom to send me a copy of the pamphlet. Pop is scheduled to get his shot this weekend.


I think the only way to get what most consider a true vaccine, i.e., injection of dead or attenuated (weakened) viral material, would be to travel to a country that is using the Chinese or Russian versions. In talking to a molecular immunologist, and reading, it seems one reason these companies have tried so desperately (and failed) to get the mRNA and DNA injection therapies approved for over a decade, is that there is such a small amount of actual viral material present, it is difficult to "extract and grow" it in mass quantities. The fact these companies tried multiple times to get FDA approval and failed due to both short and long term adverse effects was a big red flag for me. 

The efficacy rate they refer to on the news actually measures how many people create antibodies in response to the injection, not how well it prevents people from contracting Covid.


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## DKJ (Jan 17, 2021)

bamabear44 said:


> I still don't think I will take the shot, read where it can cause Ampholytic shock. which everyone mistakes for being allergic to the shot, too many chemicals injected into your body, still researching, not going anywhere much at all , wearing a mask, hand sanitizer. and all.


I think you are wise. While having an anaphylactic shock reaction worried me, it is the other, long term adverse effects to the immune system that scare me the most. I think they are now pretty sure it is the polyethylene glycol (think antifreeze) component of the injections that is causing the anaphylactic shock reaction. That stuff is in more things than I ever realized! 

This is a link to a organization's newletter that advocates for children's health. They have become very involved with the Covid issue, and support full disclosure and truth in medical treatment. There is a ton of information and interviews with scientists, doctors, and researchers from around the world on their site. The media has tried to paint them as antivax but they are not, some of their guests have worked for the drug companies and in the vaccine research fields for decades. They just believe it is our right to be fully informed before making potentially life altering decisions. The comments I consistently hear that people are taking the injection to protect them and others from getting Covid have made me realize just how little accurate information folks are receiving prior to taking the injection. My Mom used to punish us for telling a half truth same as a full blown lie. There's been a lot of half-truth (and worse) going around lately. 

I am very grateful that there are folks willing to risk their careers and financial security to make this information available. 









COVID Archives







childrenshealthdefense.org


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## nodak3 (Feb 5, 2003)

All five in my family have had the shots, two got moderna and 3 of us got pfizerated. Because they work slightly differently, we hope all of us to be able to do J and J by late summer, once everyone who wants a shot has had the opportunity.

Boots on the ground, the vaccines are so far holding the variants at bay and are proving highly effective at preventing disease and lessening the chance of spreading it both.

We are continuing to follow cdc guidelines now for the sake of others who haven't been able to get the shots. But at some point in time, I am sure the folks who are pretty well protected will stop the efforts to protect others and just figure, "Well, stinks to be you I guess." That was what I heard one guy say to an elderly man. The elderly guy had said since the other guy was unmasked he would appreciate it if he let him have his 6 feet of space. The younger guy said "Why, I won't die if I get it." The old man said he might die himself, though, and the younger guy said, "Well, it stinks to be you I guess."

I think the next issue that will be all heat and no light will be the vaccination passports. Some want them, some don't. I can see some will be mightily ticked off if some states or countries go that route and some don't. For example, if Italy decides they want them and someone from the US wants to fly there without proof of vaccine status, they might get their hackles up with Italy does not let them deplane. Or depart NY in the first place.

But I figure that will work itself out over time. If the bug gets more deadly and starts to spread more rapidly or mutate more rapidly, more folks will insist on knowing that others around them are safe to be around. On the other hand, if we reach herd immunity quickly the idea will go away on its own. Takes time to find the balance of freedoms and responsibilities. Where I live so many like the fact they can do whatever they want on their own land. But the same people get het up when someone puts a hog farm in next door to them. Or they want to farm their land as they please, but get riled up when a neighbor has bradford pears and they spread onto his land. We will get it figured out, that balance of freedom and responsibility.


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## Forcast (Apr 15, 2014)

J&J Covid Vaccine Reviewed by EU Regulator After Blood Clots


The European Union’s drug regulator has started a review to assess blood clots in people who received Johnson & Johnson’s Covid-19 vaccine.




www.bloomberg.com


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## Danaus29 (Sep 12, 2005)

nodak3 said:


> We are continuing to follow cdc guidelines now for the sake of others who haven't been able to get the shots. But at some point in time, I am sure the folks who are pretty well protected will stop the efforts to protect others and just figure, "Well, stinks to be you I guess." That was what I heard one guy say to an elderly man. The elderly guy had said since the other guy was unmasked he would appreciate it if he let him have his 6 feet of space. The younger guy said "Why, I won't die if I get it." The old man said he might die himself, though, and the younger guy said, "Well, it stinks to be you I guess."



That young man was a jerk. Vaccine or no, people are still supposed to follw the CDC guidelines about masking _and social distancing_. People can still get covid after being vaccinated.


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## Max Overhead (Feb 22, 2021)

Speaking only for myself, I don't have to follow the CDC. They are a pharmaceutical company. I am not beholden to pharmaceutical companies. 
As for the shot, I think it's great that Moderna and J $ J get to hone their chops on their first vaccine without any legal culpability. Pfizer rules for erections, and their criminal history is not important. What is important is that they are saving lives, protecting the old. The key to staying healthy in these trying times is to be injected with a mysterious solution produced by companies which have legal indemnity. If they give you free doughnuts or paid time off that's even better. Doing the right thing is rewarding, that's how you know it's the right thing; because you were paid off.
As for masking and social distancing, those who want to should. Those who don't, should be shot with a potato gun. Germs are the new terrorists. People who don't get shot and don't wear masks, and don't treat other people around them like large germs, should get extra helpings of mashed potatoes. We're all in this together. So stay tf away.


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## Northof49 (Mar 3, 2018)

After watching and reading a lot of the information that is out there but they don't want you to see on this experimental emergency use only tests and vaccines I'm 100% fully convinced that your chances of living a long healthy life are much better by avoiding both.


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## wdcutrsdaughter (Dec 9, 2012)

Max Overhead said:


> Speaking only for myself, I don't have to follow the CDC. They are a pharmaceutical company. I am not beholden to pharmaceutical companies.
> As for the shot, I think it's great that Moderna and J $ J get to hone their chops on their first vaccine without any legal culpability. Pfizer rules for erections, and their criminal history is not important. What is important is that they are saving lives, protecting the old. *The key to staying healthy in these trying times is to be injected with a mysterious solution produced by companies which have legal indemnity.* If they give you free doughnuts or paid time off that's even better. Doing the right thing is rewarding, that's how you know it's the right thing; because you were paid off.
> As for masking and social distancing, those who want to should. Those who don't, should be shot with a potato gun. Germs are the new terrorists. People who don't get shot and don't wear masks, and don't treat other people around them like large germs, should get extra helpings of mashed potatoes. We're all in this together. So stay tf away.



Did you say erections? I was trying to figure out what would have auto corrected to erections.... 
The sentence I bolded made me laugh out loud, so thank you for that. You hit the nail on the head.
And the donuts - ugh. I keep hearing circus theme music in my head.


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## po boy (Jul 12, 2010)

wdcutrsdaughter said:


> Did you say *erections?* I was trying to figure out what would have auto corrected to erections....
> The sentence I bolded made me laugh out loud, so thank you for that. You hit the nail on the head.
> And the donuts - ugh. I keep hearing circus theme music in my head.








VIAGRA® | Pfizer







www.pfizer.com


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## Nevada (Sep 9, 2004)

Max Overhead said:


> Speaking only for myself, I don't have to follow the CDC. They are a pharmaceutical company. I am not beholden to pharmaceutical companies.


The CDC is a federal agency. It's part of the Department of Health and Human Services (HHS). HHS is led by the Secretary of Health and Human Services, which is a cabinet-level position that answers directly to the president.


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## no really (Aug 7, 2013)

Nevada said:


> The CDC is a federal agency. It's part of the Department of Health and Human Services (HHS). HHS is led by the Secretary of Health and Human Services, which is a cabinet-level position that answers directly to the president.











Pharma Spent $6 Billion on Lobbying Politicians in the Last 20 Years


New research suggests that Pharma exerts considerable political influence through lobbying and campaign contributions.




www.madinamerica.com





Oliver Wouters, a researcher from the London School of Economics, recently published research analyzing the lobbying expenditures and election contributions of pharmaceutical and health product industries. His results, published in _JAMA Internal Medicine,_ reveal that the pharmaceutical and health product industries spent a total of $4.7 billion on lobbying the federal government, $877 million on state candidates and committees, and $414 million on presidential and congressional electoral campaigns, national party committees, and outside spending groups between 1999-2018. This spending was paralleled by an increase in per-person spending on prescription drugs from 1999 ($510/person, adjusted for inflation) to 2017 ($1025/person, adjusted for inflation).


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## Nevada (Sep 9, 2004)

no really said:


> Oliver Wouters, a researcher from the London School of Economics, recently published research analyzing the lobbying expenditures and election contributions of pharmaceutical and health product industries. His results, published in _JAMA Internal Medicine,_ reveal that the pharmaceutical and health product industries spent a total of $4.7 billion on lobbying the federal government, $877 million on state candidates and committees, and $414 million on presidential and congressional electoral campaigns, national party committees, and outside spending groups between 1999-2018. This spending was paralleled by an increase in per-person spending on prescription drugs from 1999 ($510/person, adjusted for inflation) to 2017 ($1025/person, adjusted for inflation).


I don't doubt that CDC officials are in the pockets of drug manufacturers.


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## Hiro (Feb 14, 2016)

Nevada said:


> I don't doubt that CDC officials are in the pockets of drug manufacturers.


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## no really (Aug 7, 2013)

Nevada said:


> I don't doubt that CDC officials are in the pockets of drug manufacturers.


And those above them, K street is a very active area.


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## Nevada (Sep 9, 2004)

no really said:


> And those above them, K street is a very active area.


It should come as no surprise to anyone that the CDC is being lobbied. That's what goes on in Washington.


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## no really (Aug 7, 2013)

Nevada said:


> It should come as no surprise to anyone that the CDC is being lobbied. That's what goes on in Washington.


My point exactly, as are the top people in government. They indulge in and promote the "donations". But you should know that. 🤣 

So why should they be trusted?


----------



## no really (Aug 7, 2013)

Nevada said:


> It should come as no surprise to anyone that the CDC is being lobbied. That's what goes on in Washington.


Yep, a top, down issue.


----------



## Nevada (Sep 9, 2004)

no really said:


> My point exactly, as are the top people in government. They indulge in and promote the "donations". But you should know that. 🤣
> 
> So why should they be trusted?


It's not like we have a choice. Who else can we go to for information? Donald Trump or Matt Gaetz? Fox News or One America News? Facebook or Twitter?

Lobbying is said to go back to the Grant administration. I suspect it was going on long before then. Grant just gave it a name.


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## no really (Aug 7, 2013)

Nevada said:


> It's not like we have a choice. Who else can we go to for information? Donald Trump or Matt Gaetz? Fox News or One America News? Facebook or Twitter?
> 
> Lobbying is said to go back to the Grant administration. I suspect it was going on long before then. Grant just gave it a name.


Really so you just allow yourself to be spoon fed any drivel put out by mega corporations, even when there are important concerns? That is in itself a very sad statement. Those beliefs are the one of the largest problems we have in this country. I do feel sorry for anyone that is of this mindset.


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## Nevada (Sep 9, 2004)

no really said:


> Really so you just allow yourself to be spoon fed any drivel put out by mega corporations, even when there are important concerns? That is in itself a very sad statement. Those beliefs are the one of the largest problems we have in this country. I do feel sorry for anyone that is of this mindset.


Hey, we're talking about a vaccine that has the potential to end this pandemic. That's what everyone wants; conservatives, liberals, and even lobbyists.


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## no really (Aug 7, 2013)

Nevada said:


> Hey, we're talking about a vaccine that has the potential to end this pandemic. That's what everyone wants; conservatives, liberals, and even lobbyists.


Really, which vaccine? Is it really going to end this illness? How is that going to work with all the ones allowed to enter the country with no vaccine and many covid positive. Than they are turned loose to go anywhere they want? But believe anything you want especially if it's doesn't require some cognizant thought process, right?

And we might understand the potential in about a year, maybe.


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## Nevada (Sep 9, 2004)

no really said:


> And we might understand the potential in about a year, maybe.


I'm expecting covid statistics to be changed from the vaccines in a big way before summer. That's not unreasonable with 3 million doses per day getting into Americans' arms. We could even see a positive trend begin in the next few weeks.

If that comes to pass we could see life getting back to normal by the end of August. That will get people back to work, students back in school, and me back in the casinos this autumn. Isn't that what we all want?


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## no really (Aug 7, 2013)

Nevada said:


> I'm expecting covid statistics to be changed from the vaccines in a big way before summer. That's not unreasonable with 3 million doses per day getting into Americans' arms. We could even see a positive trend begin in the next few weeks.
> 
> If that comes to pass we could see life getting back to normal by the end of August. That will get people back to work, students back in school, and me back in the casinos this autumn. Isn't that what we all want?


People have been expecting a lot since the first 2 week shutdown, how's that working out? Like I said what about all the un-vaccinated spreading out over the country, how's that going to impact your outlook? The vaccine makers are already calling for the series to go to three shots, seems confidence is not high that the current two are adequate. Maybe they'll decide the shot should be once a month.


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## Nevada (Sep 9, 2004)

no really said:


> People have been expecting a lot since the first 2 week shutdown, how's that working out? Like I said what about all the un-vaccinated spreading out over the country, how's that going to impact your outlook? The vaccine makers are already calling for the series to go to three shots, seems confidence is not high that the current two are adequate. Maybe they'll decide the shot should be once a month.


Even without a booster shot, I expect the data to start showing progress from immunized Americans soon, and be obvious by June.


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## no really (Aug 7, 2013)

Nevada said:


> Even without a booster shot, I expect the data to start showing progress from immunized Americans soon, and be obvious by June.


You seem to be unable to address those coming into the country with no vax and some covid positive, why is that?


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## DKJ (Jan 17, 2021)

Nevada said:


> The CDC is a federal agency. It's part of the Department of Health and Human Services (HHS). HHS is led by the Secretary of Health and Human Services, which is a cabinet-level position that answers directly to the president.


Sadly, CDC and the NIH are in the vaccine business, CDC holds over 56 vaccine patents and over 40% of their budget comes from agreements with companies selling those vaccines. NIH has a financial stake in the new Moderna injection. I worked for the feds for almost 40 years and every year when we were forced to attend ethics and conflict of interest training, CDC and FDA would come under fire for the unethical conflicts of interest. Former employees of both leave (early or retire) and go to work for these drug companies for huge bonuses and obscene salaries, yet the rest of the feds are prohibited from having any business with a company whose primary mission is something they were involved with in their federal capacity. We had to wait years before going to work for a company we dealt with while employed. 

I liken it to putting out an ad saying one wants to hire foxes to guard the hen house. Who in their right mind thinks it appropriate to put people with financial links in the position of overseeing and approving that very thing which benefits the decision maker's bank account!


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## muleskinner2 (Oct 7, 2007)

Nevada said:


> The CDC is a federal agency. It's part of the Department of Health and Human Services (HHS). HHS is led by the Secretary of Health and Human Services, which is a cabinet-level position that answers directly to the president.


Yes, and if all of that doesn't scare you nothing will. Well, because the government would never lie to us.


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## Nevada (Sep 9, 2004)

muleskinner2 said:


> Yes, and if all of that doesn't scare you nothing will. Well, because the government would never lie to us.


Government does some things better that private industry ever could. Jonas Salk's polio research was funded by the federal government. It was said that if polio were left up to private industry that they wouldn't have developed a vaccine, they would have developed an improved iron lung.

There was no such thing as a paramedic during the first 20 years of my life. Ambulance service was typically provided by funeral homes as a side business. Certification was Standard Red Cross certification, the same first aid certification that boy scouts got. By the time I started college Paramedics were available, and ambulance service was migrating to local government run departments. We never had it so good before.

Sometimes government can do things better. That's nothing to fear.


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## no really (Aug 7, 2013)

no really said:


> You seem to be unable to address those coming into the country with no vax and some covid positive, why is that?


Still no answer nevada?


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## no really (Aug 7, 2013)

Nevada said:


> Government does some things better that private industry ever could. Jonas Salk's polio research was funded by the federal government. It was said that if polio were left up to private industry that they wouldn't have developed a vaccine, they would have developed an improved iron lung.
> 
> There was no such thing as a paramedic during the first 20 years of my life. Ambulance service was typically provided by funeral homes as a side business. Certification was Standard Red Cross certification, the same first aid certification that boy scouts got. By the time I started college Paramedics were available, and ambulance service was migrating to local government run departments. We never had it so good before.
> 
> Sometimes government can do things better. That's nothing to fear.


I believe Salk's work was funded by the National foundation for infantile paralysis. 









8 Things You May Not Know About Jonas Salk and the Polio Vaccine


Explore eight surprising facts about the groundbreaking polio vaccine that Dr. Salk developed.




www.history.com





A year after his nomination as a Democratic vice presidential candidate, rising political star Franklin D. Roosevelt contracted polio while vacationing at his summer home on Campobello Island in 1921. The disease left the legs of the 39-year-old future president permanently paralyzed. In 1938, five years after entering the White House, Roosevelt helped to create the National Foundation for Infantile Paralysis, later renamed the March of Dimes Foundation, which became the primary funding source for Salk’s vaccine trials. Employing “poster children” and enlisting the star power of celebrities from Mickey Rooney to Mickey Mouse, the grassroots organization run by Roosevelt’s former Wall Street law partner Basil O’Connor was raising more than $20 million per year by the late 1940s.


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## Max Overhead (Feb 22, 2021)

Nevada said:


> Government does some things better that private industry ever could. Jonas Salk's polio research was funded by the federal government. It was said that if polio were left up to private industry that they wouldn't have developed a vaccine, they would have developed an improved iron lung.
> 
> There was no such thing as a paramedic during the first 20 years of my life. Ambulance service was typically provided by funeral homes as a side business. Certification was Standard Red Cross certification, the same first aid certification that boy scouts got. By the time I started college Paramedics were available, and ambulance service was migrating to local government run departments. We never had it so good before.
> 
> Sometimes government can do things better. That's nothing to fear.


Or Polio was the result of the government spraying DDT on people, and after the vaccine the disease was simply renamed. https://i.ytimg.com/vi/kbcHszMCIJM/hqdefault.jpg
Also, many of the polio vaccines were contaminated and gave people cancer down the line: Cancer risk associated with simian virus 40 contaminated polio vaccine - PubMed
I'm not sure what government did so well there. I suppose if you ignore all the smoke signals you might say there was no fire. But others see better.
There's also no pandemic now. Television says things, but saying things don't make them so. Hence all the citizen journalists that went around all the hospitals through all of this and found them stone empty. Forcing everyone to wear masks certainly helps for appearances, though.


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## Max Overhead (Feb 22, 2021)

Nevada said:


> The CDC is a federal agency. It's part of the Department of Health and Human Services (HHS). HHS is led by the Secretary of Health and Human Services, which is a cabinet-level position that answers directly to the president.


*CDC Members Own More Than 50 Patents Connected to Vaccinations*
_





CDC Members Own More Than 50 Patents Connected to Vaccinations







www.lawfirms.com




_*America’s “Medical Deep State” The Role of the CDC *
_


America's "Medical Deep State". The Role of the CDC - Global ResearchGlobal Research


_


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## Wellbuilt (Dec 25, 2020)

My daughter/and one son had the shot today and feels fine .
The wife / and 2 sons are due for the second dose next week .
The other daughters went a few days ago , the little ones are up next .
One son was sick for a day then got better we had some head aches 
And Sore arms. 
My wife took them 🤷‍♂️ I’m just not that guy No shot for me ,not yet any way


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## Danaus29 (Sep 12, 2005)

Max Overhead said:


> Or Polio was the result of the government spraying DDT on people, and after the vaccine the disease was simply renamed. https://i.ytimg.com/vi/kbcHszMCIJM/hqdefault.jpg


If this is true, explain why kids living where DDT was not sprayed got polio.


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## Nevada (Sep 9, 2004)

Max Overhead said:


> Or Polio was the result of the government spraying DDT on people


Seems to me that I've heard that before, but I can't imagine what part a pesticide might play in a virus epidemic.


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## nodak3 (Feb 5, 2003)

My husband had polio. It was a virus, not ddt. DDT was not being sprayed in the big city he lived in. Good grief the stuff some folks will swallow hook line and sinker from conspiracy nuts.

Vaccines are good things. They are not the cause of all the boogey man rare diseases that crop up.

My family got vaccinated, one was real early on in December and January. So far we have had few odd tastes or smells for a couple of hours after the vaccine, sore arms for a day or so, and I had a stronger reaction with chills and mild fever and more symptoms. But we suspect we may have had covid early on. 

Seriously, get your info from JAMA, from Johns Hopkins, from the CDC, and not from anti everything nutcases with a 6th grade ejicemacation that know more than anyone else.


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## DKJ (Jan 17, 2021)

nodak3 said:


> My husband had polio. It was a virus, not ddt. DDT was not being sprayed in the big city he lived in. Good grief the stuff some folks will swallow hook line and sinker from conspiracy nuts.
> 
> Vaccines are good things. They are not the cause of all the boogey man rare diseases that crop up.
> 
> ...


I don't know the history of polio, but I do know when that vaccine was developed, there was no treatment for polio, same with small pox and TB. Far cry from the injections being pushed now for a variation of the flu virus that has treatment and a 99.9% survival rate. Do you think that all around the world, molecular immunologists, virologists and epidemiologists who are speaking up and challenging these same "sources of information" you named are all crazy. These are folks that are at the top of their fields and have been for decades. Some have won the Nobel Peace prize. And what about the tens of thousands of doctors worldwide that are finally speaking up? All crazy? 

Scary as the short term effects may be, that is not what troubles people who have done independent research, it is the enhanced antibody reactions that people can, and are, developing after the vaccine and the possibility that either the mRNA/DNA injections will permanently alter our genetic code (yes, I know they say it won't - see below). These are what will cause health issues for decades to come.

I have had access to one of these specialists (a family member) that ran a hospital research lab, traveled the world attending and speaking at conferences and who has published extensively. She is one of the smartest people I know; smart enough to be scared of the possible consequences. 

She reviewed the linked article, written by a scientist, thought it was excellent and shared it with me. I challenge those who have been relying on main stream media for their information to take the time to read it. Suspend your disbelief for just a few minutes and think instead, "what if these people are right, what if I have been lied to by folks more interested in their bank accounts than the health and well being of the public?" A staggering amount of wealth has been transferred from the hands of many into the hands of a few during this past year -- more than at any other time in history. 









Why I Won't Take the Johnson & Johnson Vaccine — a Scientist’s Perspective


Ken Biegeleisen, M.D., Ph.D., explains why he believes Johnson & Johnson cannot guarantee its COVID vaccine won’t alter your genetic code.




childrenshealthdefense.org


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## susieneddy (Sep 2, 2011)

We are getting our 2nd vaccine shot tomorrow. Pfizer by the way. Now to see what happens the next day. I have heard stories of people getting sick, flu like conditions with a fever and others said no problems at all. We shall see


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## jimLE (Apr 18, 2018)

I won't be getting the shots.on account not enough short term testing.and no long term test.then I started hearing about blood clots and ppl dieing after getting the vaccine.now this.the link below.



https://nojabforme.info/


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## nodak3 (Feb 5, 2003)

Again, so much nonsense being spouted. Yes, there are some blood clotting issues with astra zeneca and with johnson and johnson. Not with moderna and pfizer, so if you are concerned you can choose one of those. We have a family member with multiple bloodclotting disorders and no problems with moderna. Would refuse J and J with those disorders, but not the mrna one's. As to women getting the clots--it is still a much smaller likelihood than with hormonal birth control or hormone replacement therapy. There is no dna in a mrna vaccine. There are no viruses in them either. J and J and AZ are attenuated virus vaccines, but they use different viruses than the covid 19 one.

The old saw of this is 99.9% survival rate, or 97.8, or whatever Fox News says today is wrong. Just wrong. For some age groups the death rate has been has high as 15%. For some as low as that 99.9%. But even babies have died, and many who survive have long term issues with health and most alarming, with mental health. One of the neuro issues may be a loss of critical thinking ability. Ya think?? These same people regularly ride in autos, much more dangerous than the vax. Or ride horses, drink alcohol, raft rivers, buy foods laden with artificial sweeteners and chemicals, or drink Mt. Dew. All likely much more dangerous than a vaccine. Of any kind.

As to polio, it was a virus, not ddt. Or the alignment of the stars. DDT was not being used where my husband lived when he contracted polio. It was a viral illness. Its genome is known.

We can look to India, with poor vaccination rates today, and see the horrific possibility we could face if we allow the variants to overwhelm us. We could be at the edge of that if not enough people shut down the political voices and naysayers that are always against science and decide for themselves.

I don't need to disprove unproven accusations. I don't have to prove something dire won't happen in 20 years if I take the vax. The naysayers have to prove something will. But mrna tech is not new. The vax was not rushed. Where I live it is the pro Trump crowd that is vocally antivax, which I do not get at all. Trump did a great job with this, getting the red tape cut. I will even wax political and say I believe there could be an antiTrump element fueling the antivax crowd. So for me personally, when a person is antivax I think to myself they will have to prove to me they are not in cahoots with the Chinese Commies. I think the Chinese and the Russians want us to refuse the vax so they can take down our country. Maybe that is just because as my husband says if you cut me I bleed Baptist. Very independent. Very trusting that God made an orderly universe and commanded us to study and care for it and for people. Very Very Very anti commie.

Whatever, we are vaxxed, staying prepped in case of variants, using ppe when out and about due to the high level of antivax antimaskers here and the vax not being 100%. We figure we will survive, and if the antivaxxer's don't, not much more anyone could do for them. Family in the medical field are telling us if we get another big surge, the covid patients will not get priority care. There will be limited beds for them as the rest of the hospitals are kept open to provide care for all the other needs. The needs of the covid patients would be preventable now, so no special treatment or overwhelming the system.

So we prep for the worst and pray for the best. And are so thankful to God that He allowed us the vaccines.


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## Forcast (Apr 15, 2014)

Tucker Carlson: How many Americans have died after taking the COVID vaccine?


"Tucker Carlson Tonight" explores the potential side effects of taking the COVID-19 vaccine, and asks why no one seems to care




www.foxnews.com





Very long article


----------



## wdcutrsdaughter (Dec 9, 2012)

Interesting article. I am glad the people I know who got it haven't died. 
I am open to the fact that they still might.
Oh yea, we all die.

People in my circle who got the chem cocktail defend it as the best choice.
It may be a side effect, tbh.


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## Danaus29 (Sep 12, 2005)

My mom was sick for several days after getting the second shot. When the CDC started suggesting boosters she said they could jump in a lake and take the booster with them.

I'm not a Chinese commie. I am also not a US govt "get the shot" shill.


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## Nevada (Sep 9, 2004)

The way I see it, we all want to reopen businesses and schools as soon as it's safe. I know that I do. I miss the buffets. 

So we have two basic strategies to pursue; mass (70%) vaccinations, or pretend that there is no pandemic. I think we've given the strategy of ignoring the pandemic a fair chance, and I don't see much hope for expanding on that strategy. I think it's time that we give the vaccination strategy a try.

If you are even the least bit hesitant about taking the vaccine then I encourage you to discuss it with your doctor. Judging by my doctor's reaction to me having taken both Pfizer shots, I suspect that all but a very few patients will be encouraged to take the vaccine.

There is only one hidden agenda by family practice physicians to encourage their patients to take the vaccine, and that to immunize their patients and end the pandemic.


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## no really (Aug 7, 2013)

My primary doctor has advised me to try to wait at least a year or better to see what issues develop. I'm still testing positive for the antibodies. Doc hasn't been able to find any info on this issue. He also told me he took the J&J and that was the only one he could in any way support.

Around here we are back to normal, no masks, went to a county wide Cinco de Mayo party, great time with such good food. There will also be the usual 4th of July party on the square with food booths, dancing and live music.


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## Danaus29 (Sep 12, 2005)

Nevada said:


> If you are even the least bit hesitant about taking the vaccine then I encourage you to discuss it with your doctor. Judging by my doctor's reaction to me having taken both Pfizer shots, I suspect that all but a very few patients will be encouraged to take the vaccine.
> 
> There is only one hidden agenda by family practice physicians to encourage their patients to take the vaccine, and that to immunize their patients and end the pandemic.


Your doctor will push you to take the vaccine just like they push flu shots and annual exams.

Healthy patients are not money makers. Health care still a profitable profession.


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## Pony (Jan 6, 2003)

no really said:


> My primary doctor has advised me to try to wait at least a year or better to see what issues develop. I'm still testing positive for the antibodies. Doc hasn't been able to find any info on this issue. He also told me he took the J&J and that was the only one he could in any way support.
> 
> Around here we are back to normal, no masks, went to a county wide Cinco de Mayo party, great time with such good food. There will also be the usual 4th of July party on the square with food booths, dancing and live music.


Docs/PCPs in this area are not pushing the jab. (It is not a vaccine. They have not isolated the virus. The only jab that has any virus in it is the J&J, and the virus they put in it is not the CCP virus.)

ANYway. 

Life here has always pretty much been normal. In the beginning, people wore masks and all, because it was prudent at the time. When it became obvious that people were not dropping like flies, and that people were still as healthy as they'd ever been (some more healthy than others, of course), then people just said, "We're going to live our lives."

Some folk still wear masks. That's their choice.

Some folks are taking the jab. That's their choice.

Each individual is responsible for his/her own health. I won't dictate to others how they should live, and I expect the same in return.


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## Pony (Jan 6, 2003)

nodak3 said:


> Again, so much nonsense being spouted.


Because you disagree with someone, they are spouting nonsense? 

Huh. 

That's an interesting take on life.


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## cannonfoddertfc (Dec 20, 2020)

Nevada said:


> ...snip...
> There is only one hidden agenda by family practice physicians to encourage their patients to take the vaccine, and that to immunize their patients and end the pandemic.


The vaccine does not make you immune to COVID, it merely reduces the symptoms of COVID.
It does not prevent you from getting or sharing COVID, it reduces the effect it will have on you.

All this media propaganda about "get the shot, end the pandemic" is just politics and lies. It is a virus, its not going anywhere.
The shot will NOT make the virus go away, it will just reduce the effect of the symptoms for the person that got the shot.

If you want a source, look at any of the manufactures fine print... its spelled out in plain english.
And physicians should know this.


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## Nevada (Sep 9, 2004)

cannonfoddertfc said:


> The vaccine does not make you immune to COVID, it merely reduces the symptoms of COVID.
> It does not prevent you from getting or sharing COVID, it reduces the effect it will have on you.


That is simply not true. Vaccines are extremely effective in preventing COVID-18 illness. Washington state has been tracking breakthrough cases and is reporting 217 breakthrough cases out of 1.7 million vaccinated patients. If you do the math, one person gets ill out of 7,834 vaccinated patients. That's a terrific record.

You can read about the results for yourself at this link at the Washington State Department of Health website. Please, let's stick with facts and leave politics out of it.









Articles


For immediate release: April 14, 2021 (21-100)Spanish Contact: DOH Communications Public inquiries: State COVID-19 Assistance Hotline, 1-800-525-0127 Update on vaccine breakthrough cases in Washington state OLYMPIA – The Washington State Department of



www.doh.wa.gov


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## no really (Aug 7, 2013)

Nevada said:


> That is simply not true. Vaccines are extremely effective in preventing COVID-18 illness. Washington state has been tracking breakthrough cases and is reporting 217 breakthrough cases out of 1.7 million vaccinated patients. If you do the math, one person gets ill out of 7,834 vaccinated patients. That's a terrific record.
> 
> You can read about the results for yourself at this link at the Washington State Department of Health website. Please, let's stick with facts and leave politics out of it.
> 
> ...



Where did you see politics in this comment?


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## Nevada (Sep 9, 2004)

no really said:


> Where did you see politics in this comment?


It seems very important to some members to discredit COVID-19 vaccines, even contrary to clear scientific evidence to the contrary. I'm searching for reasons why someone would do that. Politics seems likely. Political gain is usually the purpose for discrediting science.

But I could be mistaken. So if it's not politics, please help me out by giving me a hint what the real reason is.


----------



## no really (Aug 7, 2013)

Nevada said:


> It seems very important to some members to discredit COVID-19 vaccines, even contrary to clear scientific evidence to the contrary. I'm searching for reasons why someone would do that. Politics seems likely. Political gain is usually the purpose for discrediting science.
> 
> But I could be mistaken. So if it's not politics, please help me out by giving me a hint what the real reason is.


Minorities are least likely to take the vaccine due to distrust of the government and medical professionals. 






COVID Data Tracker


CDC’s home for COVID-19 data. Visualizations, graphs, and data in one easy-to-use website.



covid.cdc.gov


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## no really (Aug 7, 2013)

This chart is from the CDC.


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## cannonfoddertfc (Dec 20, 2020)

Nevada said:


> That is simply not true. Vaccines are extremely effective in preventing COVID-18 illness. Washington state has been tracking breakthrough cases and is reporting 217 breakthrough cases out of 1.7 million vaccinated patients. If you do the math, one person gets ill out of 7,834 vaccinated patients. That's a terrific record.
> 
> You can read about the results for yourself at this link at the Washington State Department of Health website. Please, let's stick with facts and leave politics out of it.
> 
> ...


Thats funny, you tell me to leave politics out of it but quote the ministry of propaganda.
This state is pushing the political agenda harder than most thanks to Inslee.
I recommend that you go read the manufacturers fine print or if you prefer the propaganda, here is the CDC. The Advisory Committee on Immunization Practices...

I dont care about your politics, its about stopping the spread of false information and false hope.
I am not suggesting that you should not get the shot, that is absolutely your decision. *Just get it for the right reason and know the truth about it*.
If you are in the high risk category, I actually encourage it because it has been proven to reduce the effects of the virus.
But it does not prevent contracting/carrying COVID, Its just not that kind of vaccine.

At the end of the day, I am just some person on the internet so don't take my word for it, do your research and make an informed decision for yourself.

Have a wonderful weekend.


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## Nevada (Sep 9, 2004)

cannonfoddertfc said:


> I recommend that you go read the manufacturers fine print or if you prefer the propaganda, here is the CDC. The Advisory Committee on Immunization Practices...


From your link:

_The body of evidence for the Pfizer-BioNTech COVID-19 vaccine was primarily informed by one large, randomized, double-blind, placebo-controlled Phase II/III clinical trial that enrolled >43,000 participants (median age = 52 years, range = 16–91 years) (5,6). Interim findings from this clinical trial, using data from participants with a median of 2 months of follow-up, indicate that the *Pfizer-BioNTech COVID-19 vaccine was 95.0% effective (95% confidence interval = 90.3%–97.6%) in preventing symptomatic laboratory-confirmed COVID-19* in persons without evidence of previous SARS-CoV-2 infection. start highlight._

Even your own link demonstrates how effective and safe the Pfizer vaccine is. Considering that typical flu vaccines hover around 50% effective, 95% is an extremely good number.


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## no really (Aug 7, 2013)

Nevada said:


> From your link:
> 
> _The body of evidence for the Pfizer-BioNTech COVID-19 vaccine was primarily informed by one large, randomized, double-blind, placebo-controlled Phase II/III clinical trial that enrolled >43,000 participants (median age = 52 years, range = 16–91 years) (5,6). Interim findings from this clinical trial, using data from participants with a median of 2 months of follow-up, indicate that the *Pfizer-BioNTech COVID-19 vaccine was 95.0% effective (95% confidence interval = 90.3%–97.6%) in preventing symptomatic laboratory-confirmed COVID-19* in persons without evidence of previous SARS-CoV-2 infection. start highlight._
> 
> Even your own link demonstrates how effective and safe the Pfizer vaccine is. Considering that typical flu vaccines hover around 70% effective, 95% is an extremely good number.


Funny how the minority communities don't see it that way, why? History of our government using them as guinea pigs. 

In a year or so the statistics will be easier to see, if we are allowed. IMHO


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## cannonfoddertfc (Dec 20, 2020)

Nevada said:


> From your link:
> 
> _The body of evidence for the Pfizer-BioNTech COVID-19 vaccine was primarily informed by one large, randomized, double-blind, placebo-controlled Phase II/III clinical trial that enrolled >43,000 participants (median age = 52 years, range = 16–91 years) (5,6). Interim findings from this clinical trial, using data from participants with a median of 2 months of follow-up, indicate that the *Pfizer-BioNTech COVID-19 vaccine was 95.0% effective (95% confidence interval = 90.3%–97.6%) in preventing symptomatic laboratory-confirmed COVID-19* in persons without evidence of previous SARS-CoV-2 infection. start highlight._
> 
> Even your own link demonstrates how effective and safe the Pfizer vaccine is. Considering that typical flu vaccines hover around 50% effective, 95% is an extremely good number.


Never said it was unsafe, you made that up. Safety and long term effects are still unknown so I can't say either way.
What is known is that it doesn't prevent contracting COVID, it merely reduces the effects of the symptoms when you do contract it.
Which *is* what I said and if you read the rest of that link, so does the CDC.


----------



## Nevada (Sep 9, 2004)

no really said:


> In a year or so the statistics will be easier to see, if we are allowed. IMHO


You have covid antibodies so that is not a pressing issue for you. You can afford to wait a year.

Unfortunately the population as a whole can't wait for a year. The covid death toll is too high. Americans also want businesses and schools to reopen. But that can't happen unless we bring the pandemic under control. We certainly don't want a relapse like India has. Having enough vaccinated Americans to create heard immunity is the key to getting the economy back on track. Vaccines offer an opportunity for us to end the pandemic. Let's take advantage of it.


----------



## Nevada (Sep 9, 2004)

cannonfoddertfc said:


> What is known is that it doesn't prevent contracting COVID, it merely reduces the effects of the symptoms when you do contract it.


But your own reference link contradicts that. The Pfizer vaccine is extremely effective at preventing covid-19.


----------



## no really (Aug 7, 2013)

Nevada said:


> You have covid antibodies so that is not a pressing issue for you. You can afford to wait a year.
> 
> Unfortunately the population as a whole can't wait for a year. The covid death toll is too high. Americans also want businesses and schools to reopen. But that can't happen unless we bring the pandemic under control. We certainly don't want a relapse like India has. Having enough vaccinated Americans to create heard immunity is the key to getting the economy back on track. Vaccines offer an opportunity for us to end the pandemic. Let's take advantage of it.


Than talk to the minorities, we are the ones not complying. I know it seems to be a problem for you but it's the facts.


----------



## cannonfoddertfc (Dec 20, 2020)

Nevada said:


> But your own reference link contradicts that. The Pfizer vaccine is extremely effective at preventing covid-19.


It actually doesn't if you read it instead of trying to skim the talking points.
The information is out there for those that are willing to look beyond the politics and hype. 

For those that are considering the vaccine or not, do your own research, don't take the word of random people on the internet or TV. 
Get all the facts and make an informed decision for your situation.


----------



## Nevada (Sep 9, 2004)

cannonfoddertfc said:


> It actually doesn't if you read it instead of trying to skim the talking points.


I don't know what to say. The gist of that article is that the Pfizer vaccine is highly effective at preventing covid-19 infections. We must be looking at two different articles.


----------



## no really (Aug 7, 2013)

Nevada said:


> You have covid antibodies so that is not a pressing issue for you. You can afford to wait a year.
> 
> Unfortunately the population as a whole can't wait for a year. The covid death toll is too high. Americans also want businesses and schools to reopen. But that can't happen unless we bring the pandemic under control. We certainly don't want a relapse like India has. Having enough vaccinated Americans to create heard immunity is the key to getting the economy back on track. Vaccines offer an opportunity for us to end the pandemic. Let's take advantage of it.


Exactly and if the population was tested for antibodies, we might find many more like me. So the push to vaccinate could concentrate on those that truly need it or it might prove the pandemic is basically over.


----------



## Nevada (Sep 9, 2004)

no really said:


> Exactly and if the population was tested for antibodies, we might find many more like me. So the push to vaccinate could concentrate on those that truly need it or it might prove the pandemic is basically over.


That's a valid point. Covid testing sites have been converted into vaccination sites around here. I've never been tested for covid.


----------



## no really (Aug 7, 2013)

Nevada said:


> That's a valid point. Covid testing sites have been converted into vaccination sites around here.


Here too, they were some of the quietest places around. Didn't last long, now if you want the vax you make an appointment to see the nurse. The closest real town now can't get enough people to take it that the pharmacist will give it if they are not busy. Just no interest in having a place for just giving the shot.


----------



## Nevada (Sep 9, 2004)

no really said:


> Here too, they were some of the quietest places around. Didn't last long, now if you want the vax you make an appointment to see the nurse. The closest real town now can't get enough people to take it that the pharmacist will give it if they are not busy. Just no interest in having a place for just giving the shot.


I got my vaccines at a local high school gym. The first shot was given by the National Guard. The second shot was given by local fire paramedics. There were a lot of people there, probably because I got mine early in the process. First shot was Jan 25 and the second shot was Feb 15.


----------



## no really (Aug 7, 2013)

Nevada said:


> I got my vaccines at a local high school gym. The first shot was given by the National Guard. The second shot was given by local fire paramedics. There were a lot of people there, probably because I got mine early in the process. First shot was Jan 25 and the second shot was Feb 15.


We had the national guard here for a few days doing the shots but they didn't have much traffic according to the nurse helping them. Spent a lot of time watching videos and eating. Good bunch of people, ate lunch with them at the little burger joint here. Of course we all sat outside at the picnic tables.


----------



## Pony (Jan 6, 2003)

1.) It is not a vaccine. It has zero amount of the SARS-COVID-19 virus in it. Why? Because no one has isolated that virus.

2.) It is still an experimental therapy, discredited years ago when they were trying to use it in cancer treatments. 

3.) There are so many conflicting reports on efficacy, making it impossible to make a fact-based decision.

4.) Let them test it on animals first. I'm not a guinea pig.


----------



## Alice In TX/MO (May 10, 2002)

Yessum. I am is a medical treatment trial for the RSV vaccine. It has been going on for two years, and the third year just started.

The nurse at the research office told me, “Of course, the Corona virus injection wasn’t completely tested. The current recipients ARE the test subjects.”


----------



## Nevada (Sep 9, 2004)

Pony said:


> There are so many conflicting reports on efficacy, making it impossible to make a fact-based decision.


Nonsense. The efficacy of the Pfizer vaccine is 95%. I'm not aware of any conflicting reports on that.


----------



## Pony (Jan 6, 2003)

Nevada said:


> Nonsense. The efficacy of the Pfizer vaccine is 95%. I'm not aware of any conflicting reports on that.


Nonsense? Really? 

What a lame attempt at invalidation.

Tell me, who has said that the Pfizer "vaccine" is 95% effective? Pfizer? The company that saw additional profits in excess of $3billion? 

Yeah, when you have an outside source with no dog in the race who will verify that number, let me know.


----------



## Pony (Jan 6, 2003)

Nevada said:


> Nonsense. The efficacy of the Pfizer vaccine is 95%. I'm not aware of any conflicting reports on that.


p.s. Why do you not address the issues of the experimental nature of the NOT A VACCINE injection, nor the fact that it is EXPERIMENTAL and that you are a GUINEA PIG? 

Such nonsense...


----------



## Nevada (Sep 9, 2004)

Pony said:


> p.s. Why do you not address the issues of the experimental nature of the NOT A VACCINE injection, nor the fact that it is EXPERIMENTAL and that you are a GUINEA PIG?
> 
> Such nonsense...


It has been tested, but not to your liking. I'm reading that Pfizer is looking for full FDA approval as early as next week. Will that change your mind? I think not.

Under emergency use authorization patients numbering in the hundreds of thousands have taken the Pfizer vaccine. Does that change your mind? I think not.

Tell me, what would it take for you to get the vaccine? To meet with your approval, who has to authorize its use, how many patients have to take it without serious reactions, and how effective does it need to be?


----------



## Pony (Jan 6, 2003)

Nevada said:


> It has been tested, but not to your liking. I'm reading that Pfizer is looking for full FDA approval as early as next week. Will that change your mind? I think not.
> 
> Under emergency use authorization patients numbering in the hundreds of thousands have taken the Pfizer vaccine. Does that change your mind? I think not.
> 
> Tell me, what would it take for you to get the vaccine? To meet with your approval, who has to authorize its use, how many patients have to take it without serious reactions, and how effective does it need to be?


I will not take THE INJECTION under any circumstances. 

I will take it more seriously when the actual numbers are reported publicly. 

I will take it more seriously when the actual side effects are published publicly.

I will take it more seriously when an outside entity that does not stand to benefit financially or politically studies the long-term effects of the product.

As any approval of an experimental drug is obviously a political ploy, not based on actual science, how can any thinking person take it seriously?

How effective does it have to be? When it carries less risk than actually catching the virus.


----------



## Nevada (Sep 9, 2004)

Pony said:


> I will not take THE INJECTION under any circumstances.


And why will you refuse under any circumstance?


----------



## Alice In TX/MO (May 10, 2002)

She already explained that.

I'm not taking it because I understand that all her points are valid. I agree with all her points.

It's perfectly ok for anyone to disagree.

However, being obtuse on purpose is disingenuous.


----------



## Nevada (Sep 9, 2004)

Alice In TX/MO said:


> She already explained that.


No, she hasn't. She gave reasons for circumstances that exist today, but those may not be concerns sometime in the future. So even with full FDA approval, millions of doses given, and virtually no side effects she still won't be taking the vaccine. In other words, there is no set of circumstances that will get her to a vaccination center.


----------



## no really (Aug 7, 2013)

Seems like there is a saying for that, oh yeah, my body, my choice.


----------



## Alice In TX/MO (May 10, 2002)

And exactly why is anyone obligated to justify their projected future to you?


----------



## Nevada (Sep 9, 2004)

Alice In TX/MO said:


> And exactly why is anyone obligated to justify their projected future to you?


Did I say someone was obligated to take the vaccine?


----------



## Alice In TX/MO (May 10, 2002)

You did. Post #139. Implicitly.


----------



## Nevada (Sep 9, 2004)

Alice In TX/MO said:


> You did. Post #139. Implicitly.


There are only 135 posts in this thread.


----------



## Alice In TX/MO (May 10, 2002)

Dang it. I don’t remember numbers well. #129


----------



## Nevada (Sep 9, 2004)

Alice In TX/MO said:


> Dang it. I don’t remember numbers well. #129


I didn't imply any kind of obligation. But if someone doesn't want to discuss something, why join the discussion?


----------



## Danaus29 (Sep 12, 2005)

It's a shot and I don't do shots well. I have passed out from a diabetes test finger stick. I almost passed out once just looking at a needle. My doctor has to take special precautions when giving me a flu shot.

I think they are hiding information about the antibodies from having had covid. They still can't offer a good reason why people who have recovered from covid need the injection.

Of course the injection is working in their real world scenario. People who are fully immunized are no longer being tested for covid.


----------



## Nevada (Sep 9, 2004)

Danaus29 said:


> It's a shot and I don't do shots well. I have passed out from a diabetes test finger stick. I almost passed out once just looking at a needle. My doctor has to take special precautions when giving me a flu shot.
> 
> I think they are hiding information about the antibodies from having had covid. They still can't offer a good reason why people who have recovered from covid need the injection.
> 
> Of course the injection is working in their real world scenario. People who are fully immunized are no longer being tested for covid.


Hopefully they'll come up with an oral vaccine like they did for polio. I think everyone would prefer that to a shot.


----------



## Alice In TX/MO (May 10, 2002)

We don’t know what we don’t know.






Strongest Evidence Yet Shows SARS-CoV-2 May Insert Itself Into The Human Genome


Our genome is a graveyard littered with genetic fragments of viruses that once plagued our ancestors.




www.sciencealert.com


----------



## Pony (Jan 6, 2003)

Alice In TX/MO said:


> We don’t know what we don’t know.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


There you go.

This is not a vaccine.

This is experimental gene therapy.

BTW, the CDC (a private company, incidentally), has once again admitted that there are some more problems with the jab - and the issues are not with the at-risk populations, but rather, women from 19849 years old. 

_Dr. Tom Shimabukuro, with the CDC’s vaccine task force, said in an update (pdf) Wednesday that 28 total cases of thrombosis with thrombocytopenia were reported after the J&J vaccine was administered. Those were reported via the Vaccine Adverse Event Reporting System (VAERS), which is the national vaccine surveillance system.


Shimabukuro said four of the 28 people with the condition were hospitalized—with one in a hospital intensive care unit—while three people died as of May 7. The other 19 patients have since been discharged, he said._
......

_Most of the cases were among women aged 18 to 49, the CDC said, with rates among women aged 30 to 39 at 12.4 cases per million and those aged 40 to 49 at 9.4 cases per million. Only six of the clotting events identified were in men._



https://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/acip/meetings/downloads/slides-2021-05-12/08-COVID-Lee-508.pdf#page=8



I repeat, and I will keep on repeating it: This is not a vaccine. This is experimental gene therapy. 

And the companies pushing the jab are making record profits.

You don't have to be Fellini to figure this out.


----------



## Nevada (Sep 9, 2004)

Pony said:


> BTW, the CDC (a private company, incidentally)


The CDC is a federal agency under the Department of Health and Human Services.


----------



## Pony (Jan 6, 2003)

Nevada said:


> The CDC is a federal agency under the Department of Health and Human Services.


Really? How is it that they hold patents on at least 57 different vaccines, and make profits inn excess of $4billion annually in vaccine sales? 



vaccine inassignee:centers inassignee:for inassignee:disease inassignee:control - Google Search


----------



## no really (Aug 7, 2013)

A new wrinkle.









OSHA Imposes New Guidance For Employer-Required COVID-19 Vaccines


Contractors, construction industry groups say guidance contradicts administration's desire to encourage employees to get vaccinated.




www.enr.com





This is the actual text of the new question and answer on the OSHA website:

"If I require my employees to take the COVID-19 vaccine as a condition of their employment, are adverse reactions to the vaccine recordable?

"If you require your employees to be vaccinated as a condition of employment (i.e., for work-related reasons), then any adverse reaction to the COVID-19 vaccine is work-related. The adverse reaction is recordable if it is a new case under 29 CFR 1904.6 and meets one or more of the general recording criteria in 29 CFR 1904.7."


----------



## emdeengee (Apr 20, 2010)

You no longer have to wear a mask (except in specific places such as planes and other transportation, hospitals, doctors offices, homeless shelters etc - if you are fully vaccinated. The key word is FULLY vaccinated which not only means both shots if the vaccine you are getting requires two shots - and waiting for 21 to 28 days after the second shot (again depending on the vaccine you receive) for full coverage to take effect. 

I can absolutely see a lot of people not following these rules and getting sick or passing it on. Eight New York Yankees already contracted Covid-19 two weeks after vaccination (not saying if it was the second shot), Symptoms were less serious but they still got sick. We will continue to wear masks in public because of how others choose to behave including lying about being vaccinated.


----------



## Nevada (Sep 9, 2004)

Pony said:


> Really? How is it that they hold patents on at least 57 different vaccines, and make profits inn excess of $4billion annually in vaccine sales?


The CDC advisory committee members hold patents, but not the CDC itself.


----------



## no really (Aug 7, 2013)

Nevada said:


> The CDC advisory committee members hold patents, but not the CDC itself.


Well isn't that handy? Conflict of interest much?


----------



## Nevada (Sep 9, 2004)

no really said:


> Well isn't that handy? Conflict of interest much?


It's a matter of expertise and interest, and nobody has more interest in the activities of the CDC than pharmaceutical executives.


----------



## no really (Aug 7, 2013)

Nevada said:


> It's a matter of expertise and interest, and nobody has more interest in the activities of the CDC than pharmaceutical executives.


That's for, sure billions of dollars always of interest to those that acquire it. through manipulation.


----------



## Nevada (Sep 9, 2004)

no really said:


> That's for, sure billions of dollars always of interest to those that acquire it. through manipulation.


That's the way it's done. You don't think that phone companies, power companies, water companies and gas companies have state utility commissioners in their pockets? If they don't then they aren't doing their jobs. It's the same with the CDC and drug companies.


----------



## no really (Aug 7, 2013)

Nevada said:


> That's the way it's done. You don't think that phone companies, power companies, water companies and gas companies have state utility commissioners in their pockets? If they don't then they aren't doing their jobs. It's the same with the CDC and drug companies.


I don't even know how to address that comment, incredibly sad that you think big money should come before the the health of people.


----------



## Nevada (Sep 9, 2004)

no really said:


> I don't even know how to address that comment, incredibly sad that you think big money should come before the the health of people.


I didn't say it should. I just said it does, But either way, the CDC is a government agency.


----------



## no really (Aug 7, 2013)

Nevada said:


> I didn't say it should. I just said it does, But either way, the CDC is a government agency.


Yes, the CDC is a government agency and like most corrupt.


----------



## Alice In TX/MO (May 10, 2002)

Here’s an interesting development.

*“Results of the study: *COVID-19 vaccines designed to elicit neutralising antibodies may sensitise vaccine recipients to more severe disease than if they were not vaccinated.”









Informed consent disclosure to vaccine trial subjects of risk of COVID-19 vaccines worsening clinical disease - PubMed


The specific and significant COVID-19 risk of ADE should have been and should be prominently and independently disclosed to research subjects currently in vaccine trials, as well as those being recruited for the trials and future patients after vaccine approval, in order to meet the medical...




pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov


----------



## Forcast (Apr 15, 2014)

Nevada said:


> I received the first covid vaccination shot today (Monday, 01/25/2021). I got the Pfizer vaccine. Second dose is scheduled for Monday, 02/15/2021. Shots were sponsored by the Southern Nevada Health District, were given by the NV National Guard, and local fire department paramedics were present in the event of a serious adverse reaction.
> 
> They had us wait 15 minutes before checkout, to monitor for adverse reactions. I didn't observe anyone having a reaction while I was there. It went pretty quickly. I was only in the building for about 45 minutes.
> 
> ...


Can we use your card?


----------



## Nevada (Sep 9, 2004)

Forcast said:


> Can we use your card?


The problem with the new guidelines is that nobody is checking for cards, so it's an honor system. That leads me to the conclusion that the rules were changed for vaccinated people to provide an incentive to get vaccinated. In other words, unvaccinated people could enjoy walking around without a mask if they get vaccinated.


----------



## Alice In TX/MO (May 10, 2002)

Unvaccinated people can walk around however they want.


----------



## Alice In TX/MO (May 10, 2002)




----------



## Pony (Jan 6, 2003)

Alice In TX/MO said:


> View attachment 96980


----------



## Pony (Jan 6, 2003)

Alice In TX/MO said:


> Unvaccinated people can walk around however they want.


Have been for quite some time.

I read that they are planning to isolate the injected folk in restaurants, etc.

Considering some of the studies from sources other than TPTB, I'm inclined to want to avoid the folks who took the jab anyway. Quite a relief that they are going to be socially distanced from us.


----------



## Nevada (Sep 9, 2004)

Alice In TX/MO said:


> Unvaccinated people can walk around however they want.


You can almost certainly get away with walking around unvaccinated & unmasked with vaccinated people, but that's not being a good citizen.

You know the old saying; if you're not part of the solution then you're part of the problem. We're living in a global emergency so we all need to pitch-in and do our part.


----------



## Pony (Jan 6, 2003)

Nevada said:


> You can almost certainly get away with walking around unvaccinated & unmasked with vaccinated people, but that's not being a good citizen.
> 
> You know the old saying; if you're not part of the solution then you're part of the problem. We're living in a global emergency so we all need to pitch-in and do our part.


If the proposed solution is unacceptable and dangerous, it is imperative to refuse it. THAT is being a Good Citizen.

There is no such thing as "informed consent" with this gene therapy experiment.

There was NO double-blind study, only an event-driven study with n=170. An event driven study, instead of a double-blind study. A miniscule number of subjects. THAT is on what they are basing their 95% efficacy claim. (Do remember: efficacy is not the same as effectiveness.)

No. What you are calling "being a good citizen" is the same as complying with the Fascists in WWII.

The only global emergency I see is that too many people are too compliant, not asking the correct questions, accurate data being hidden and obfuscated, and blind trust in previously proven untrustworthy government and corporations.


----------



## Forcast (Apr 15, 2014)

Seeing more actors and public figures having gotten both types of vaccine testing positive and being sick with covid. So what happens when it's the general public numbers get reported?


----------



## Pony (Jan 6, 2003)

Forcast said:


> Seeing more actors and public figures having gotten both types of vaccine testing positive and being sick with covid. So what happens when it's the general public numbers get reported?


"What happens" indeed.


----------



## Nevada (Sep 9, 2004)

Pony said:


> No. What you are calling "being a good citizen" is the same as complying with the Fascists in WWII.
> 
> The only global emergency I see is that too many people are too compliant, not asking the correct questions, accurate data being hidden and obfuscated, and blind trust in previously proven untrustworthy government and corporations.


I'm just seeing a stark contrast in the way Americans reacted to 9/11 compared to how they're reacting to the coronavirus. After 9/11 Americans were willing to drop what they were doing and join the armed forces, risking life and limb to save American lives. Americans were also willing to forfeit any and all constitutional protections that GWB wanted, just to save American lives. And that was over the loss of about 3000 American lives. The covid death toll is approaching 600,000, yet many Americans aren't willing to wear a face mask or take a preventative vaccine to save American lives. Go figure...


----------



## Pony (Jan 6, 2003)

Nevada said:


> I'm just seeing a stark contrast in the way Americans reacted to 9/11 compared to how they're reacting to the coronavirus. After 9/11 Americans were willing to drop what they were doing and join the armed forces, risking life and limb to save American lives. Americans were also willing to forfeit any and all constitutional protections that GWB wanted, just to save American lives. And that was over the loss of about 3000 American lives. The covid death toll is approaching 600,000, yet many Americans aren't willing to wear a face mask or take a preventative vaccine to save American lives. Go figure...


I was never willing to give up my rights as listed in the Constitution. If you were willing to give up your freedom for a little perceived safety, I am sorry for you.

Tell me: What is the annual death rate from influenza? Car crashes? Cancer? 

And what is the recovery rate from the weaponized virus?

You cannot tell me that the influenza rate dropped because of better hygiene practices, and then, in the next breath, tell me that the numbers for the virus are high because of lack of hygiene practices.

Neither can you tell me that the so-called test they use determine infection with the virus are reliable. Nor can you tell me that my father - who died from cancer this past Christmas - died from the 'rona. But that's what they tried to put on his death certificate.

There may be a real virus, but the rest of the brouhaha is highly suspect.


----------



## Nevada (Sep 9, 2004)

Pony said:


> I was never willing to give up my rights as listed in the Constitution. If you were willing to give up your freedom for a little perceived safety, I am sorry for you.


I don't know what to say. One thing's for sure, and that's that I was a lone voice around here in the years that followed 9/11. I don't know if conservatives forget what they used to stand for or if they realize the error in their ways and pretend it never happened.

I think it's like wanting McCain to be president, then after he lost they had no use for him. They did the same for Romney.

We had long discussions about GWB having his way with constitutional protections. They told me that I simply didn't understand the threat that Muslims posed, that we could trust GWB to not abuse our rights, and after GWB defeated terrorists that he would restore our rights. And besides, congress authorized GWB to suspend those rights, although nobody could say where congress derived the authority to make constitutional exceptions. And do you know who was one of the loudest advocates to suspend constitutional rights? Rush Limbaugh!

Yes, a lone voice. Why didn't you chime-in 8 years ago and argue against GWB policies with me? I could have used the help.


----------



## no really (Aug 7, 2013)

Nevada said:


> I'm just seeing a stark contrast in the way Americans reacted to 9/11 compared to how they're reacting to the coronavirus. After 9/11 Americans were willing to drop what they were doing and join the armed forces, risking life and limb to save American lives. Americans were also willing to forfeit any and all constitutional protections that GWB wanted, just to save American lives. And that was over the loss of about 3000 American lives. The covid death toll is approaching 600,000, yet many Americans aren't willing to wear a face mask or take a preventative vaccine to save American lives. Go figure...


Maybe we should have bombed China?


----------



## Pony (Jan 6, 2003)

Nevada said:


> I don't know what to say. One thing's for sure, and that's that I was a lone voice around here in the years that followed 9/11. I don't know if conservatives forget what they used to stand for or if they realize the error in their ways and pretend it never happened.
> 
> I think it's like wanting McCain to be president, then after he lost they had no use for him. They did the same for Romney.
> 
> ...


8 years ago? Really?

8 years ago, GC was pretty much a swamp, and I seldom went into that forum. 

If you still stand for the Constitution, and our God-given rights that the Constitution itemizes and defines, why in the world are you advocating for people to be forced to participate in a govt-mandated, corporation-driven medical experiment?


----------



## Nevada (Sep 9, 2004)

Pony said:


> 8 years ago? Really?
> 
> 8 years ago, GC was pretty much a swamp, and I seldom went into that forum.
> 
> If you still stand for the Constitution, and our God-given rights that the Constitution itemizes and defines, why in the world are you advocating for people to be forced to participate in a govt-mandated, corporation-driven medical experiment?


My mistake. Not 8 years ago, it was 18 years ago.


----------



## Nevada (Sep 9, 2004)

Pony said:


> why in the world are you advocating for people to be forced to participate in a govt-mandated, corporation-driven medical experiment?


*I NEVER* advocated forced vaccination! Why would you accuse me of such a thing?


----------



## Pony (Jan 6, 2003)

Nevada said:


> *I NEVER* advocated forced vaccination! Why would you accuse me of such a thing?


Because of your posts advocating for people to get the gene jab. And for your insistence that people who refuse to participate in the experiment are not Good Citizens. 

But they are Loyal Patriots who stand up and say that something is hinky going on.


----------



## Danaus29 (Sep 12, 2005)

Forcast said:


> Seeing more actors and public figures having gotten both types of vaccine testing positive and being sick with covid. So what happens when it's the general public numbers get reported?



Bill Maher, fully vaccinated, recently diagnosed.









Bill Maher Is Fully Vaccinated And Has Tested Positive For Covid-19 Coronavirus


This shows how breakthrough infections can still occur but also how the Covid-19 vaccines can help even with such infections.




www.forbes.com





Is it co-incidence that the CDC says fully vaccinated people no longer need to be tested for covid?









'Creates more problems than it's worth': CDC eases COVID-19 testing recommendations for vaccinated people


The CDC now says vaccinated people without symptoms mostly don’t need to get tested – even if exposed to the COVID-19 virus.



www.usatoday.com


----------



## Nevada (Sep 9, 2004)

Danaus29 said:


> Bill Maher, fully vaccinated, recently diagnosed.


Yes, you can get vaccinated, wear a face mask, and practice social distancing, but still get covid-19. We've known that for a long time now. There aren't a lot of breakthrough cases and breakthrough cases are usually mild, but they happen.


----------



## Danaus29 (Sep 12, 2005)

And by removing the requirement that fully vaccinated people get tested the number will continue to increase, untracked. 

So much for the CDC claim that they want to keep track of the breakthrough cases.






COVID-19 Breakthrough Case Investigations and Reporting | CDC


Information and resources to help public health departments and laboratories investigate and report COVID-19 vaccine breakthrough cases.




www.cdc.gov





We still are not getting acurate and pertinent information about the vaccines.


----------



## Nevada (Sep 9, 2004)

Danaus29 said:


> And by removing the requirement that fully vaccinated people get tested the number will continue to increase, untracked.


So, are you advocating forced testing?


----------



## Pony (Jan 6, 2003)

Danaus29 said:


> And by removing the requirement that fully vaccinated people get tested the number will continue to increase, untracked.
> 
> So much for the CDC claim that they want to keep track of the breakthrough cases.
> 
> ...


They have decided that the only cases they are going to track are the ones who end up in hospital.

Nothing going on here... move along...


----------



## Alice In TX/MO (May 10, 2002)

Good grief, Nevada. Your hobby appears to be twisting what people say in order to incite arguments.


----------



## Pony (Jan 6, 2003)

Nevada said:


> So, are you advocating forced testing?


Well.... If people agreed to be part of the experiment, then it does seem like they have agreed to be tracked. Especially the ones who want their "Vaccine" Multipass.


----------



## nodak3 (Feb 5, 2003)

Here is what I am hearing: we now have an effective vaccine, with low side effects and impressive ability to prevent infections. Even if there are break through infections they are usually very mild, and low viral load so not really likely to infect someone else. (If you are concerned you can certainly still wear a mask. We plan to do that when with people who either are unvaccinated or whose status we don't know, for our own protection. With our jab being about 90% effective against all cases, and around 97% effective boots on the ground against severe disease, we should be good to go. But with post polio and lung damage from previous pneumonia, and seeing we live among those who have not cared who they killed the whole pandemic long, we will still protect ourselves with that around 70-90% layer from our niosh n95's.) We don't plan to stay out of venues and restaurants and such just because weenies afraid of a needle are now afraid of us. There is no science to the goofy claims we pose a danger to them. There is no danger, but if they are worried they can exercise their freedom and go home.

Given that severe cases are now pretty much preventable for all but the immunocompromised or those who medically cannot get the jab, the health system is rebooting. No longer will priority be given to covid cases. Hospitals will set aside a small portion of space and people and supplies for them, and when it over flows you can expect to be given a sheet of instructions and an rx for oxygen, which in a surge will probably not be available.

The vaccinated are now going back into life with a high degree of safety. And the medical community is admitting we could be entering a time of "sayanora sucker" in the sense that those people who refuse to social distance and mask and self isolate if they don't want the shot, and refuse that shot, have had their chance. The rest will not worry about them when they get sick other than to isolate them.

So we have gone from covid19 being the boomer doomer to it being the great bestower of Darwin Awards. It is preventable. If you choose to risk your life, we really don't care anymore.

Well, other than that you remain a pus pocket for the virus to mutate. But if does and brings another serious surge, those of us that get the jab will be well prepped. And science is likely to retool and give us another jab against that variant. But at that time, I expect public willingness to put up with the silliness that risks the rest of us. So yeah, at that point I expect either you take the jab or lose your freedom.

Remember the old joke about the guy on the roof of his house during a flood? How he prayed God to save him? A friend came by on a jet ski, but he would not get on it. Ditto with the motor boat that came by. Then the Guard lowered a rope from a helicopter but he refused it since "God would save him." As he stood before the Lord right after he drowned in the flood, he complained that he prayed but God did nothing. And the Lord replied, "How can you say that? I sent you a jet ski, a motor boat, and a helicopter. What more did you expect?"

Those refusing the jab who are medically cleared for it are possibly literally throwing a tantrum and holding their breath until they turn blue in the face. And we bury them.

So those I know in medicine are saying they cannot change those folks minds. The only thing we can do is basically avoid or shun them for safety, maybe not allow them in venues, and move on. In time they will either be just fine or they won't. But the system as whole is moving on now that this is, at least in the USA, basically now a preventable disease.


----------



## Pony (Jan 6, 2003)

nodak3 said:


> Here is what I am hearing: we now have an effective vaccine, with low side effects and impressive ability to prevent infections. Even if there are break through infections they are usually very mild, and low viral load so not really likely to infect someone else. (If you are concerned you can certainly still wear a mask. We plan to do that when with people who either are unvaccinated or whose status we don't know, for our own protection. With our jab being about 90% effective against all cases, and around 97% effective boots on the ground against severe disease, we should be good to go. But with post polio and lung damage from previous pneumonia, and seeing we live among those who have not cared who they killed the whole pandemic long, we will still protect ourselves with that around 70-90% layer from our niosh n95's.) We don't plan to stay out of venues and restaurants and such just because weenies afraid of a needle are now afraid of us. There is no science to the goofy claims we pose a danger to them. There is no danger, but if they are worried they can exercise their freedom and go home.
> 
> Given that severe cases are now pretty much preventable for all but the immunocompromised or those who medically cannot get the jab, the health system is rebooting. No longer will priority be given to covid cases. Hospitals will set aside a small portion of space and people and supplies for them, and when it over flows you can expect to be given a sheet of instructions and an rx for oxygen, which in a surge will probably not be available.
> 
> ...


It doesn't bother you that the numbers for infection are way out of line with reality? It doesn't bother you that there have been ZERO double-blind tests for the mRNA jab? It doesn't bother you that no one is following science, but whim?

What I hear/read is that you choose to believe what a government prone to lying and changing its story to fit its whims is saying, and that you choose to ignore the red flags all over the place.

I also read that, even though you seem to have great faith in this genetic therapy, you insist that all others must do as you do, or be removed from polite society.

But if your mRNA injection is so safe and powerful, WTH do you care what anyone else does?

You do what you want, but do not deign to pass judgment on the carefully researched decisions made by others.


----------



## Alice In TX/MO (May 10, 2002)

Thank you, Pony. Well written.


----------



## no really (Aug 7, 2013)

nodak3 said:


> Here is what I am hearing: we now have an effective vaccine, with low side effects and impressive ability to prevent infections. Even if there are break through infections they are usually very mild, and low viral load so not really likely to infect someone else. (If you are concerned you can certainly still wear a mask. We plan to do that when with people who either are unvaccinated or whose status we don't know, for our own protection. With our jab being about 90% effective against all cases, and around 97% effective boots on the ground against severe disease, we should be good to go. But with post polio and lung damage from previous pneumonia, and seeing we live among those who have not cared who they killed the whole pandemic long, we will still protect ourselves with that around 70-90% layer from our niosh n95's.) We don't plan to stay out of venues and restaurants and such just because weenies afraid of a needle are now afraid of us. There is no science to the goofy claims we pose a danger to them. There is no danger, but if they are worried they can exercise their freedom and go home.
> 
> Given that severe cases are now pretty much preventable for all but the immunocompromised or those who medically cannot get the jab, the health system is rebooting. No longer will priority be given to covid cases. Hospitals will set aside a small portion of space and people and supplies for them, and when it over flows you can expect to be given a sheet of instructions and an rx for oxygen, which in a surge will probably not be available.
> 
> ...


Maybe late next year, when there is a clearer picture.


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## Hiro (Feb 14, 2016)

nodak3 said:


> Here is what I am hearing: we now have an effective vaccine, with low side effects and impressive ability to prevent infections. Even if there are break through infections they are usually very mild, and low viral load so not really likely to infect someone else. (If you are concerned you can certainly still wear a mask. We plan to do that when with people who either are unvaccinated or whose status we don't know, for our own protection. With our jab being about 90% effective against all cases, and around 97% effective boots on the ground against severe disease, we should be good to go. But with post polio and lung damage from previous pneumonia, and seeing we live among those who have not cared who they killed the whole pandemic long, we will still protect ourselves with that around 70-90% layer from our niosh n95's.) We don't plan to stay out of venues and restaurants and such just because weenies afraid of a needle are now afraid of us. There is no science to the goofy claims we pose a danger to them. There is no danger, but if they are worried they can exercise their freedom and go home.
> 
> Given that severe cases are now pretty much preventable for all but the immunocompromised or those who medically cannot get the jab, the health system is rebooting. No longer will priority be given to covid cases. Hospitals will set aside a small portion of space and people and supplies for them, and when it over flows you can expect to be given a sheet of instructions and an rx for oxygen, which in a surge will probably not be available.
> 
> ...


Bless your heart.


----------



## Alice In TX/MO (May 10, 2002)

Someone above said ...
“seeing we live among those who have not cared who they killed the whole pandemic long”

There were other falsehoods and balderdash, but quoting them wasn’t worth the time. 

To the author, I think that your post reveals false assumptions and a negative attitude toward people who have a different opinion from yours. May you live long and prosper and learn that you are not the Great Arbitrator.

Peace.


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## Hiro (Feb 14, 2016)

Alice In TX/MO said:


> Someone above said ...
> “seeing we live among those who have not cared who they killed the whole pandemic long”
> 
> There were other falsehoods and balderdash, but quoting them wasn’t worth the time.
> ...


Having a negative attitude towards people that have a different opinion is one thing. Wishing their ostracization and them harm and ill will is quite another.


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## Alice In TX/MO (May 10, 2002)

I agree. I was dismayed at the tone and name calling of his/her post.


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## altair (Jul 23, 2011)

My husband and I received our first "Fauci Ouchie" this week. My arm was sore so that was fun doing barn repairs but it only lasted about a couple of days. No other symptoms here.


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## Pony (Jan 6, 2003)

Alice In TX/MO said:


> Someone above said ...
> *“seeing we live among those who have not cared who they killed the whole pandemic long”*
> 
> There were other falsehoods and balderdash, but quoting them wasn’t worth the time.
> ...


 The highlighted line is so very telling.


----------



## Danaus29 (Sep 12, 2005)

Nevada said:


> So, are you advocating forced testing?


I never advocated forced testing. However, many places perform periodic (yes, forced) testing. If they test one person they should test them all. 

Until the vaccines get past the emergency use stage recipients should not get a pass on testing.


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## Nevada (Sep 9, 2004)

Pony said:


> But if your mRNA injection is so safe and powerful, WTH do you care what anyone else does?


Because we all want business to resume normal activities, jobs to return, and life to go back to what we had before the pandemic. We can't do that unless many more people get vaccinated. And don't get the idea that a serious relapse can't happen. Look to what's going on in India for what a relapse might look like.

If your problem is with mRNA vaccines, take the J&J vaccine. But get vaccinated. It's a matter of life and death.


----------



## Alice In TX/MO (May 10, 2002)

No. It isn’t. You know better than that.


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## GTX63 (Dec 13, 2016)

Nevada said:


> If your problem is with mRNA vaccines, take the J&J vaccine. But get vaccinated. It's a matter of life and death.


No, no it isn't. You are using fear and guilt as a manipulator. 
That works on weak minds and soft hearts, neither of which do well in homesteading environments.


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## GTX63 (Dec 13, 2016)

Nevada said:


> We can't do that unless many more people get vaccinated.


I will also add that you deserve credit for not using the word "science" in your last post.
The definition has been butchered and abused by the government and misused so much by their sycophants that it now carries a dubious and suspicious aura whenever it is used.
Thank you.


----------



## no really (Aug 7, 2013)

Nevada said:


> Because we all want business to resume normal activities, jobs to return, and life to go back to what we had before the pandemic. We can't do that unless many more people get vaccinated. And don't get the idea that a serious relapse can't happen. Look to what's going on in India for what a relapse might look like.
> 
> If your problem is with mRNA vaccines, take the J&J vaccine. But get vaccinated. It's a matter of life and death.


As I've said before, if the population was tested for antibodies we would probably find most have had it and carry antibodies.

Big pharma and the government needs to make their profit on the vax. Maybe life and death for them though. 😊


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## Nevada (Sep 9, 2004)

Alice In TX/MO said:


> No. It isn’t. You know better than that.





GTX63 said:


> No, no it isn't. You are using fear and guilt as a manipulator.


What's going on in India is pretty frightening.

The nightmare scenario for a pandemic is the hospital system being overwhelmed. If that happens the hospitals not only can't treat covid patients effectively, but also heart patients, accident victims, and maternity patients. If you or a loved one show up at an ER in India right now you could be turned away regardless of how serious your problem is. That's pretty frightening.

But I think that fear is the correct emotion during a pandemic. After all, fear was the correct emotion after 9/11, and we're a lot more likely to die from covid than we ever were from a terror attack.

The sad thing is that it doesn't have to be this way. We have the tools to beat this pandemic; the vaccines. All we have to do it take the vaccine and life can go back to normal.


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## Nevada (Sep 9, 2004)

GTX63 said:


> I will also add that you deserve credit for not using the word "science" in your last post.
> The definition has been butchered and abused by the government and misused so much by their sycophants that it now carries a dubious and suspicious aura whenever it is used.
> Thank you.


The term "science" has been butchered by some politicians to promote their personal agendas, but the scientific community is doing just fine.


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## GTX63 (Dec 13, 2016)

Nevada said:


> The term "science" has been butchered by some politicians to promote their personal agendas, but the scientific community is doing just fine.


Would you consider Dr Fauci an example of someone who presents "science" in a credible light?


----------



## GTX63 (Dec 13, 2016)

Nevada said:


> But I think that fear is the correct emotion during a pandemic. After all, fear was the correct emotion after 9/11, and we're a lot more likely to die from covid than we ever were from a terror attack.
> All we have to do it take the vaccine and life can go back to normal.


Fear is the result of a lack of control. If one is prepared ie, someone who subscribes to a homesteading/self sufficient lifestyle, there is little to fear but much to prepare for.
If you prepare, you tend to have more control.
Your last sentence sounds as if it were being verbalized by a government youth on a street corner.


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## Nevada (Sep 9, 2004)

GTX63 said:


> Fear is the result of a lack of control. If one is prepared ie, someone who subscribes to a homesteading/self sufficient lifestyle, there is little to fear but much to prepare for.
> If you prepare, you tend to have more control.
> Your last sentence sounds as if it were being verbalized by a government youth on a street corner.


How does a good homesteader prepare for a deadly pandemic?


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## GTX63 (Dec 13, 2016)

Nevada said:


> How does a good homesteader prepare for a deadly pandemic?


I'll bet you should get plenty of responses to that one here.
I wear no mask, have had no shots and really have taken no precautions that I did not take before this "event". In other words, I didn't have to react, I simply lived as I always have.
Trying to guilt folks into a one size fits all solution isn't working for the government nor does it help with sales by their pitchmen.


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## Nevada (Sep 9, 2004)

GTX63 said:


> I'll bet you should get plenty of responses to that one here.
> I wear no mask, have had no shots and really have taken no precautions that I did not take before this "event". In other words, I didn't have to react, I simply lived as I always have.
> Trying to guilt folks into a one size fits all solution isn't working for the government nor does it help with sales by their pitchmen.


So far we've had two solutions to the pandemic proposed.

1) Pretend that there is no pandemic.
2) Get vaccinated.

I suppose we can always pretend that there is no problem. We could have pretended that there was no terrorist problem after 9/11, and we could have pretended that there was no mortgage crisis in 2009. But hiding our heads in the sand is never a good solution.

People used to die in wholesale numbers because vaccines weren't available. People watched loved ones die from small pox, typhoid, and even the flu with no help on the horizon. But today that doesn't have to happen because we have highly effective vaccines.


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## no really (Aug 7, 2013)

Take care of your body it's the only one you've got. Keep your weight at a healthy level, no processed food, vitamin D, and other supplements, exercise and stay away from people with issues, sanity is very important.


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## GTX63 (Dec 13, 2016)

Nevada said:


> So far we've had two solutions to the pandemic proposed.
> 1) Pretend that there is no pandemic.
> 2) Get vaccinated.


Those are your perceptions.


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## GTX63 (Dec 13, 2016)

Nevada said:


> How does a good homesteader prepare for a deadly pandemic?


I think you missed this question from earlier-
Would you consider Dr Fauci an example of someone who presents "science" in a credible light?


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## Alice In TX/MO (May 10, 2002)

Nevada, those are not the only options, and you know that. I am saddened to see what is happening with your reasoning skills.

I am exercising the option that works for me. Watch, learn, think, and make a decision that is appropriate for my own situation.


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## Nevada (Sep 9, 2004)

GTX63 said:


> I think you missed this question from earlier-
> Would you consider Dr Fauci an example of someone who presents "science" in a credible light?


While Fauci is one of the saner voices in Washington, he has bent to political pressure in order to keep his miserable job. I'm not sure that it's possible to disseminate pure science when you serve at the pleasure of a politician. His message has to be consistent with those he serves.


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## Alice In TX/MO (May 10, 2002)

Faucci is consistently inconsistent.


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## Pony (Jan 6, 2003)

Nevada said:


> Because we all want business to resume normal activities, jobs to return, and life to go back to what we had before the pandemic. We can't do that unless many more people get vaccinated. And don't get the idea that a serious relapse can't happen. Look to what's going on in India for what a relapse might look like.
> 
> If your problem is with mRNA vaccines, take the J&J vaccine. But get vaccinated. * It's a matter of life and death.*


*No*. It is* not* a matter of life and death.

I'm sorry you're so bought into the hype. Really, it's a shame. But look at the numbers for deaths per year for the last 5-10 years.

Why can we not get back to normal life? Because people don't take a stand for their personal freedom and for their personal health.

Good grief, man! The people in my county, and the 8 surrounding counties, resumed "normal" activities last year. Our numbers for the CCP virus are low to non-existent.

Please. Listen. Look. *RESEARCH* after you set aside your personal bias.

Nevada, I know that you know darned well that the government is not to be trusted. Why, in the name of all that is holy, have you given in to this?


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## Pony (Jan 6, 2003)

Alice In TX/MO said:


> Faucci is consistently inconsistent.


I love the pics of him at a baseball game last year, sitting right next to his companions, no mask on his face.

Yeah. He's a real trustworthy dude.


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## GTX63 (Dec 13, 2016)

Nevada said:


> While Fauci is one of the saner voices in Washington, he has bent to political pressure in order to keep his miserable job. I'm not sure that it's possible to disseminate pure science when you serve at the pleasure of a politician. His message has to be consistent with those he serves.


Was Dr. Fauci bending to political pressure when he circumvented the Obama administration and restarted Gain of Function studies? He is now on his third president, none of whom are alike.
Are you aware his misrable political job pays the highest of any appointee?
Shouldn't Dr. Fauci's ultimate responsibility be to the American public, you know, the public his President serves? Isn't he a public servant?
My point is that while you expect uniform commitment on the part of the public, and patriot duty or whatever, you seem to be cutting the good physician a little slack when it comes to informing the public and regarding his past actions.


----------



## Pony (Jan 6, 2003)

Nevada said:


> Because we all want business to resume normal activities, jobs to return, and life to go back to what we had before the pandemic. We can't do that unless many more people get vaccinated. And don't get the idea that a serious relapse can't happen. Look to what's going on in India for what a relapse might look like.
> 
> If your problem is with mRNA vaccines, take the J&J vaccine. But get vaccinated. It's a matter of life and death.


You haven't researched the J&J injection, have you? 

Despite their inclusion of adenovirus (thereby giving its insistence that it is a vaccine some credence) it still uses genetic instructions via RNA - but J&J is using double-stranded, rather than single-stranded, RNA. Still playing around with spike proteins, still causing reactions that the MSM won't report. 

Comparing India with anywhere else in the world is invalid and, frankly, bizarre. Further, unless you are there and see for yourself what is going on, I recommend a healthy skepticism. Numerous conflicting reports coming through various sources.


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## Nevada (Sep 9, 2004)

Pony said:


> You haven't researched the J&J injection, have you?
> 
> Despite their inclusion of adenovirus (thereby giving its insistence that it is a vaccine some credence) it still uses genetic instructions via RNA - but J&J is using double-stranded, rather than single-stranded, RNA. Still playing around with spike proteins, still causing reactions that the MSM won't report.
> 
> Comparing India with anywhere else in the world is invalid and, frankly, bizarre. Further, unless you are there and see for yourself what is going on, I recommend a healthy skepticism. Numerous conflicting reports coming through various sources.


Which vaccines meet with your approval?


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## GTX63 (Dec 13, 2016)

Are you familiar with the J&J vaccine?


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## Alice In TX/MO (May 10, 2002)

Dear Nevada, we repeat ourselves.

NONE of the injections in use have been thoroughly and completely tested. They are on emergency approval, and the folks who participate in the "jabs" are the *test subjects*.

This is *exactly* what the RN who I see at a medical research facility in Austin told me. I'm in a REAL test group for a vaccine for a different disease. *Starting year three.*


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## Danaus29 (Sep 12, 2005)

As for the situation in India, am I the only one who has not been getting those annoying spam calls lately? Since covid got bad there I have got only 1 spam call and that was a live person who thought they were calling someone else.


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## Pony (Jan 6, 2003)

Nevada said:


> Which vaccines meet with your approval?


Also, THESE ARE NOT VACCINES. 

SMH

You know what, Nevada? You're not hearing what we're saying. You are so afraid of life, I just don't know what to say - other than I will stop saying anything to you.

Unless you post some more egregious propaganda. Then, I'll totally call you out.


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## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

These are vaccines.


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## Alice In TX/MO (May 10, 2002)

Sigh.


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## Nevada (Sep 9, 2004)

Pony said:


> Also, THESE ARE NOT VACCINES.
> 
> SMH
> 
> ...


Maybe it would help if I pointed out that Donald Trump calls them vaccines. You aren't going to say Trump is wrong, are you?


----------



## GTX63 (Dec 13, 2016)

We went over this before, remember? 
You seem to be swallowed up inside of some group think cacoon that causes you to speak in jargon and cliches and prevents you from understanding that free thinkers, critical thinkers, do not hold allegiance to a person for their confirmation.
Unlike other social groups, not every conservative walks in lockstep, and that is a good thing.


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## Alice In TX/MO (May 10, 2002)

Nevada, that is pathetic. We are not talking that type of politics. Cheap shot, going wide of the mark.

Language changes. We have witnessed a change in the last year of the definition of "vaccine." It was changed by the media, some factions of the medical community, and folks who don't understand. 

Here's a nice list of words whose definitions have changed, with a link to more:

Fizzle
Nice
Spinster
Egregious









20 words that once meant something very different


Words change meaning all the time — and over time. Language historian Anne Curzan takes a closer look at this phenomenon, and shares some words that used to mean something totally different.



ideas.ted.com


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## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

The word vaccine has not changed. The method on creating vaccine has changed over time. In the beginning live virus was used. Medical technology has advanced and now vaccines method of delivering the way to create an immune response does not require live virus or even dead virus. Still helps create an immune response, the orignal reason for vaccines.


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## Alice In TX/MO (May 10, 2002)

The definition changed. If the process changed, then inherent in that is a change in the definition. I regret not taking a screen shot when I looked it up over a year ago.

Merriam Webster to the rescue.
*Merriam-Webster gives "vaccine" a new definition*
April 30, 2021 @ 9:10 am · Filed by Victor Mair under Etymology, Language and medicine, Lexicon and lexicography

If you care to read the entry, which backs up my prior statements.



https://languagelog.ldc.upenn.edu/nll/?p=50886


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## Pony (Jan 6, 2003)

....


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## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

"preparation of organisms administered to produce immunity,

Has not changed in decades. Just the method of creating vaccines. Ask anyone with a dictionary at home. Every definition will say it is to provide immunity even if the method of creating the vaccine is not updated.


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## Pony (Jan 6, 2003)

Alice In TX/MO said:


> The definition changed. If the process changed, then inherent in that is a change in the definition. I regret not taking a screen shot when I looked it up over a year ago.
> 
> Merriam Webster to the rescue.
> *Merriam-Webster gives "vaccine" a new definition*
> ...


May as well give up. Some people will believe whatever they're told without questioning, so there's really no sense in beating our heads against the wall encouraging them to question and think.

OTOH...









It feels so good when the pain stops... :O LOL


----------



## Alice In TX/MO (May 10, 2002)

Okey dokey. If folks here can't read and understand the Merriam Webster dictionary, I surrender the playing field to the left end of the bell curve.


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## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

*Definition of vaccine*

*: *a preparation that is administered (as by injection) to stimulate the body's immune response against a specific infectious disease:









Definition of VACCINE


a preparation that is administered (as by injection) to stimulate the body's immune response against a specific infectious agent or disease: such as… See the full definition




www.merriam-webster.com


----------



## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

Pony said:


> May as well give up. Some people will believe whatever they're told without questioning, so there's really no sense in beating our heads against the wall encouraging them to question and think.
> 
> OTOH...
> View attachment 97065
> ...


Is that how you justify yourself, by putting down others and saying they can't think for themselves. That is disgusting.


----------



## Alice In TX/MO (May 10, 2002)

Disgusting is folks who blather and don't read the evidence provided about the morphing of the definition. Seriously.

Here:








Amazon.com: Official COVID-19 Vaccination Bracelet (2) : Clothing, Shoes & Jewelry


Buy Official COVID-19 Vaccination Bracelet (2): Shop top fashion brands Bracelets at Amazon.com ✓ FREE DELIVERY and Returns possible on eligible purchases



www.amazon.com


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## Pony (Jan 6, 2003)

Nevada said:


> Maybe it would help if I pointed out that Donald Trump calls them vaccines. You aren't going to say Trump is wrong, are you?


Seriously? What in the world makes you think that I support him? Sorry, you're barking up the wrong tree with that one. Anyone who gets into the Oval Office is not on the up and up.

ETA: You're not addressing my comments, you're merely
steering things in another direction.


Truth is truth, period. I don't care what anyone calls the damned injection.

If you consider yourself to be a toaster, and insist that everyone else agree with you, I am still going to tell you that you're wrong.


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## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

Alice In TX/MO said:


> Disgusting is folks who blather and don't read the evidence provided about the morphing of the definition. Seriously.
> 
> Here:
> 
> ...


I don't agree that the definition has changed. I provided the actual definition. They may change words about how a vaccine is made or delivered but it still is to provide immunity.


----------



## Pony (Jan 6, 2003)

Alice In TX/MO said:


> Disgusting is folks who blather and don't read the evidence provided about the morphing of the definition. Seriously.
> 
> Here:
> 
> ...


Language matters, but people don't pay attention to the word/mind games being played by people in power. Sometimes, my friend, we need to scrape our shoes and walk away from the ones standing in it up to their necks - and loving it.


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## Alice In TX/MO (May 10, 2002)

Toast came from the Latin word tostum, which means to burn or scorch. Before the toaster, people toasted bread over a fire.

Does that mean a bread fork is a toaster? 

I am at sixes and sevens.


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## Pony (Jan 6, 2003)

Alice In TX/MO said:


> Toast came from the Latin word tostum, which means to burn or scorch. Before the toaster, people toasted bread over a fire.
> 
> Does that mean a bread fork is a toaster?
> 
> I am at sixes and sevens.


ROTFL!!!! 

Thank you, Alice. That's a good one.


----------



## Alice In TX/MO (May 10, 2002)

Painter, you are absolutely one of the best shining examples on HT of someone who is incapable of reading and assimilating what you read on a verifiable and authoritative website (such as Merriam Webster) into your preconceived and erroneous viewpoints. 

Please note that what I said isn't rude. It's my opinion statement based on observation of your posts. Facts, ma'am.


----------



## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

Alice In TX/MO said:


> Painter, you are absolutely one of the best shining examples on HT of someone who is incapable of reading and assimilating what you read on a verifiable and authoritative website (such as Merriam Webster) into your preconceived and erroneous viewpoints.
> 
> Please note that what I said isn't rude. It's my opinion statement based on observation of your posts. Facts, ma'am.
> 
> View attachment 97066


This thread is not about your opinion of me. 

Vaccines have always been about providing immunity. Just because on website changes the wording 9f a definition does not change the meaning of the word.

How about you provide a definition that changes that basic premise instead of an opinion on me. I have yet to see anything that says a vaccine is to do anything more than help provide an immune response.?


----------



## Pony (Jan 6, 2003)

Alice In TX/MO said:


> Toast came from the Latin word tostum, which means to burn or scorch. Before the toaster, people toasted bread over a fire.
> 
> Does that mean a bread fork is a toaster?
> 
> I am at sixes and sevens.


Toasters through the ages:

Primitive Toaster









Early 20th Century Toaster:










Modern Toaster:


----------



## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

Pony said:


> Toasters through the ages:
> 
> Primitive Toaster
> View attachment 97067
> ...


Excellent illustrative post. While the technology of the toaster changed over the years, it is obvious it is still a toaster.


----------



## Alice In TX/MO (May 10, 2002)

Is a fork a toaster? Is a skillet a toaster? Mayhap you have used one of these methods.



https://www.electroluxappliances.com/live-love-lux/3-ways-to-toast-bread-without-a-toaster/


----------



## Pony (Jan 6, 2003)

Alice In TX/MO said:


> Is a fork a toaster? Is a skillet a toaster? Mayhap you have used one of these methods.
> 
> 
> 
> https://www.electroluxappliances.com/live-love-lux/3-ways-to-toast-bread-without-a-toaster/


Good article, but what about toasting bread over a match? Or over the flame on a gas range? 

This put me in mind of a Black Adder episode. I think I'll pull that out and watch it. I need some humor.


----------



## Nevada (Sep 9, 2004)

Nevada said:


> I'm expecting covid statistics to be changed from the vaccines in a big way before summer. That's not unreasonable with 3 million doses per day getting into Americans' arms. We could even see a positive trend begin in the next few weeks.
> 
> If that comes to pass we could see life getting back to normal by the end of August. That will get people back to work, students back in school, and me back in the casinos this autumn. Isn't that what we all want?





Nevada said:


> Even without a booster shot, I expect the data to start showing progress from immunized Americans soon, and be obvious by June.


And yes, it has come to pass.

_*"Cases are going down, deaths are going down, hospitalizations are going down, vaccinations are going up," Dr. William Schaffner, an infectious diseases professor at Vanderbilt University*_









Average Covid-19 cases are the lowest they've been in nearly a year. Vaccines can push them even lower, officials say | CNN


Covid-19 vaccines have proven a tremendous ally in America's battle against the virus -- but there's more work to do.




www.cnn.com


----------



## altair (Jul 23, 2011)

TMI land. I have no idea if this is Covid related, but I had an unusual episode this morning. I had my first vaccine 10 days ago. No issues. I did see an article regarding women post-menopause who have gotten their periods after their vaccine but didn't read it or think much of it. I did have slight inconsequential cramping a few days after though it was mid-cycle and was brief.

I am not quite at menopause age yet but haven't had painful cramps in years. This morning I did. Woke me up at 4 AM. I got up and took some aspirin, went back to bed. Squirmed for 15 minutes, got up again. Did the bathroom, went back to bed. Felt I had to visit again shortly after and ended up passing out on the floor (I do this sometimes in a lot of pain). 

Long story short, my husband found me and I probably shocked him silly but he was such a help. I didn't hurt myself though did wound my chin and my back is a bit sore today. I then had to vomit which was worse than the fall.

I googled and it seems there are other women who have had period issues after receiving the vaccine. My doctor said she hadn't heard of anything. The falling is on me, I bet I was dehydrated and didn't listen to the warning signs to get on the floor. 

But anyway, I felt leagues better after going back to bed and went to work per normal. Onward!


----------



## wr (Aug 10, 2003)

Nevada said:


> *I NEVER* advocated forced vaccination! Why would you accuse me of such a thing?


Pressure by public shaming and backhanded insults isn’t an attempt to coerce people?


----------



## Nevada (Sep 9, 2004)

wr said:


> Pressure by public shaming and backhanded insults isn’t an attempt to coerce people?


I've never deliberately shamed or insulted anyone. That's not my style.


----------



## Pony (Jan 6, 2003)

altair said:


> TMI land. I have no idea if this is Covid related, but I had an unusual episode this morning. I had my first vaccine 10 days ago. No issues. I did see an article regarding women post-menopause who have gotten their periods after their vaccine but didn't read it or think much of it. I did have slight inconsequential cramping a few days after though it was mid-cycle and was brief.
> 
> I am not quite at menopause age yet but haven't had painful cramps in years. This morning I did. Woke me up at 4 AM. I got up and took some aspirin, went back to bed. Squirmed for 15 minutes, got up again. Did the bathroom, went back to bed. Felt I had to visit again shortly after and ended up passing out on the floor (I do this sometimes in a lot of pain).
> 
> ...


There is a lot of info out there about women experiencing miscarriages, others having such heavy menses that they had to go to the ER, and women who are post-menopausal having periods from hell that were later diagnosed as a decidual cast (complete shedding of the entire uterine lining).

We aren't hearing a lot of the adverse event reports. Do a little digging, though, and you come up with some pretty hairy scary stuff.

You may want to look into it before you get a second injection.


----------



## GTX63 (Dec 13, 2016)

Nevada said:


> I've never deliberately shamed or insulted anyone. That's not my style.


Yet you have determined that it is our patriotic duty to get the shot.
You have stated that the length and severity of this pandemic will be decided by those who are willing to join the inoculated and help their fellow citizens.
You are said the "science" is irrefutable as if there can be no plausible dissent.
What sort of style would you call that?


----------



## Pony (Jan 6, 2003)

GTX63 said:


> Yet you have determined that it is our patriotic duty to get the shot.
> You have stated that the length and severity of this pandemic will be decided by those who are willing to join the inoculated and help their fellow citizens.
> You are said the "science" is irrefutable as if there can be no plausible dissent.
> What sort of style would you call that?


To whom is your post addressed?


----------



## GTX63 (Dec 13, 2016)

To the good member listed in the quote block of post #249.


----------



## Pony (Jan 6, 2003)

GTX63 said:


> To the good member listed in the quote block of post #249.


I didn't see the quote. Realized that there is a block function. 

ETA: Sorry about that.


----------



## Nevada (Sep 9, 2004)

GTX63 said:


> You are said the "science" is irrefutable as if there can be no plausible dissent.


If you doubted the scientific prediction, there is no doubt about the results. The covid news this week is very good, and it's the result of covid vaccines.

But there are good reasons for not getting the vaccine. People under twelve years old shouldn't, at least until the FDA gives a green light. Anyone declining the vaccine on their doctors' advice are doing the right thing.

There was a time when people who had covid-19 were asked not to take the vaccine. They had some natural immunity from having it, so it was important to allow people who hadn't had it to get vaccinated. But there seems to be plenty for everyone who wants it now.

Sure, there is plausible dessent.


----------



## Forcast (Apr 15, 2014)

Gottlieb says there's growing circumstantial evidence that Covid may have originated in a lab


With other coronaviruses, SARS and MERS, researchers were able to identify the animal those diseases emerged from at this point in those outbreaks.




www.cnbc.com


----------



## Nevada (Sep 9, 2004)

Forcast said:


> Covid may have originated in a lab


I'll be interested to learn the origin, but it's a moot point in dealing with the pandemic.


----------



## Hiro (Feb 14, 2016)

Nevada said:


> I'll be interested to learn the origin, but it's a moot point in dealing with the pandemic.


Many rational, unbiased people deduced it a year ago. You know those that are scientists without an agenda.


----------



## Nevada (Sep 9, 2004)

Hiro said:


> Many rational, unbiased people deduced it a year ago. You know those that are scientists without an agenda.


That must include me, since I don't care one way or another. But it's important to track it down if possible to see if there are ways to contain contagious viruses early.


----------



## Hiro (Feb 14, 2016)

Nevada said:


> That must include me, since I don't care one way or another. But it's important to track it down if possible to see if there are ways to contain contagious viruses early.


Or not engineer them.


----------



## sharkerbaby (Jan 15, 2016)

Nevada said:


> If you doubted the scientific prediction, there is no doubt about the results. *The covid news this week is very good, and it's the result of covid vaccines.*
> 
> But there are good reasons for not getting the vaccine. People under twelve years old shouldn't, at least until the FDA gives a green light. Anyone declining the vaccine on their doctors' advice are doing the right thing.
> 
> ...


Nah, It's only partially due to vaccines. As of yesterday at 6 am, less than half of the US population is at least partially vaccinated and only 39% are fully vaccinated.* So sorry, if your information sources that you have been saying are oh so knowledgeable and on target with their information and are to be believed (ie Fauci), then we need at least 80% of the population to have immunity to keep infections down. Or at best, according to John Hopkins School of Public Health it needs to be at 70%

So given this, your lauded vaccines are but a small part of the falling Covid rates. Try again...


* At least 163,309,414 people or 49% of the population have received at least one dose.
Overall, 130,014,175 people or 39% of the population have been fully vaccinated.
Source: USAFacts.org


----------



## Nevada (Sep 9, 2004)

Hiro said:


> Or not engineer them.


We don't know that, at least not yet. The report says a few lab employees had flu-like symptoms, but that's not unusual. We'll need more than that to point the finger at that lab.


----------



## Alice In TX/MO (May 10, 2002)

No one knows if the injections have anything to do with the downward curve of new cases.

Diseases ebb and flow.

We do not know the normal cycle of this disease. Claiming otherwise is disingenuous.


----------



## GTX63 (Dec 13, 2016)

Masks and lockdowns and waiting for a cure did what? 
Pitted neighbors and coworkers (those that got to keep their jobs) against eachother.
That 15 day shutdown thing was stretched out over a year.
Folks were indoctrinated to use the term "science" whenever they heard someone questioning what was happening.
That word will never have the same credibility again.
A fraud committed against every American.


----------



## GTX63 (Dec 13, 2016)

The post above is in no way a criticism of those who exercise their right due to health, personal concern or no reason at all to do as they please, wear what they please and follow any guidelines, including their own.
The ones who roll in with the wagon and circus monkey and shiny bottle of elixir, not so much.


----------



## Danaus29 (Sep 12, 2005)

My son got his 2nd dose last week. After a few days the fever dreams and hallucinations wore off and now he is left with a tingly/swimming (his words) feeling in his head. Who knows how long that will last.

Daughter gets her 2nd dose next week. If she has a bad reaction there is absolutely no way anyone could coerce me into getting the shot! Especially with some of those "ladies only" side effects.


----------



## Nevada (Sep 9, 2004)

GTX63 said:


> Masks and lockdowns and waiting for a cure did what?


The purpose was to slow the spread of the virus to prevent hospitals from being overwhelmed. India is a model of how bad it could have gotten without masks and social distancing.


----------



## no really (Aug 7, 2013)

Nevada said:


> The purpose was to slow the spread of the virus to prevent hospitals from being overwhelmed. India is a model of how bad it could have gotten without masks and social distancing.


Apples to oranges comparison. India is not comparable to the US, EU or any other developed countries. They are moving forward but have a large population that don't have clean water, food or medical help available.


----------



## Danaus29 (Sep 12, 2005)

New York was pretty bad off at this time last year. But New York is unique and not like the rest of the US.

Would masks, social distancing and improved sanitation have helped stem the flow in New York? We will never know.


----------



## Nevada (Sep 9, 2004)

no really said:


> Apples to oranges comparison. India is not comparable to the US, EU or any other developed countries. They are moving forward but have a large population that don't have clean water, food or medical help available.


India isn't short on technology, STEM education, or hospital infrastructure. We import a lot of engineering and medical talent from India. But india has a population problem, which makes it more susceptible to shortages, including shortages of medical resources. But that doesn't mean it couldn't happen here. We came dangerously close to overwhelming our hospital system during the last few months of the Trump administration.


----------



## Alice In TX/MO (May 10, 2002)

But it didn’t.


----------



## no really (Aug 7, 2013)

Nevada said:


> India isn't short on technology, STEM education, or hospital infrastructure. We import a lot of engineering and medical talent from India. But india has a population problem, which makes it more susceptible to shortages, including shortages of medical resources. But that doesn't mean it couldn't happen here. We came dangerously close to overwhelming our hospital system during the last few months of the Trump administration.


Pretty much what I said but it's limited to certain societal levels, the castes that rule or are considered of a higher order. The untouchables which number around 160 million are not given the same level of care as others.


----------



## Nevada (Sep 9, 2004)

Alice In TX/MO said:


> But it didn’t.


That's true, but not because of anything Trump did. We avoided overwhelming our hospital system because many, perhaps most, Americans respected face mask & social distancing guidelines.

You're welcome.


----------



## wr (Aug 10, 2003)

Nevada said:


> I've never deliberately shamed or insulted anyone. That's not my style.


I feel the suggestion that anyone not getting the vaccine isn't an American patriot is a form of shaming.


----------



## Nevada (Sep 9, 2004)

wr said:


> I feel the suggestion that anyone not getting the vaccine isn't an American patriot is a form of shaming.


Not at all. I think that getting the vaccine is a patriotic act, but someone who doesn't get vaccinated can still be a patriot.

It's like joining the military after 9/11. That's a patriotic act, but it doesn't mean people who didn't join the service aren't still patriots.


----------



## Pony (Jan 6, 2003)

no really said:


> Apples to oranges comparison. India is not comparable to the US, EU or any other developed countries. They are moving forward but have a large population that don't have clean water, food or medical help available.


Does the "Indian variant" even exist?

*“It has come to our knowledge that a false statement is being circulated online which implies that an ‘Indian variant’ of coronavirus is spreading across the countries. This is completely FALSE. There is no such variant of Covid-19 scientifically cited as such by the World Health Organisation (WHO). WHO has not associated the term “Indian Variant” with the B.1.617 variant of the coronavirus in any of its reports,” the ministry wrote in the letter. *









Govt asks social platforms to take down ‘Indian Covid variant’ posts


The Union ministry of health, on May 12, clarified that there is no Indian variant of coronavirus disease.




www.hindustantimes.com













India orders removal of content referring to ‘Indian variant’


Government says ‘false’ coronavirus claim is circulating on social media and should be taken down




www.theguardian.com


----------



## Danaus29 (Sep 12, 2005)

Ready for more lies and deception from the CDC? They stopped accepting reports of asymptomatic break-through cases as of May 1st when the magical 10% of fully vaccinated cases was reported. Now they are tallying only hospitalized or fatal cases due to any cause.






COVID-19 Breakthrough Case Investigations and Reporting | CDC


Information and resources to help public health departments and laboratories investigate and report COVID-19 vaccine breakthrough cases.




www.cdc.gov


----------



## wr (Aug 10, 2003)

Nevada said:


> Not at all. I think that getting the vaccine is a patriotic act, but someone who doesn't get vaccinated can still be a patriot.
> 
> It's like joining the military after 9/11. That's a patriotic act, but it doesn't mean people who didn't join the service aren't still patriots.


Perhaps you should mention that when you keep citing that those who are vaccinated are 'true patriots.'


----------



## Pony (Jan 6, 2003)

Nevada said:


> That's true, but not because of anything Trump did. We avoided overwhelming our hospital system because many, perhaps most, Americans respected face mask & social distancing guidelines.
> 
> You're welcome.


Yeah, those empty hospital beds that caused many hospitals to go broke were really very helpful. Sure didn't have anything to do with masks or anti-social distancing, more to do with government following faulty computer projections.

_You're_ welcome.


----------



## GTX63 (Dec 13, 2016)

Nevada said:


> Not at all. I think that getting the vaccine is a patriotic act, but someone who doesn't get vaccinated can still be a patriot.
> 
> It's like joining the military after 9/11. That's a patriotic act, but it doesn't mean people who didn't join the service aren't still patriots.


Getting a shot from a private corp based on speculation isn't patriotic. Nor is misleading the public with double speak, false and misleading information and flawed comparables. 
I stated that the word "science" has been compromised of it's integrity. Include Mr. Fauci.
You are free to wave your flag, but I was a patriot long before anyone made towing a party line a patriotic act.


----------



## Danaus29 (Sep 12, 2005)

The definition of "patriot" changes as rebellions advance. 

And I still stand by my belief that the cause of death was incorrectly stated as covid in several cases to cover up medical malpractice/neglect or so the facility could get the extra covid money from the govt. Keeping the family away from nursing home residents served only to allow nursing home abuse/neglect, which was a huge problem before the pandemic, to escalate undetected and unchallenged.


----------



## nchobbyfarm (Apr 10, 2011)

Nevada said:


> Not at all. I think that getting the vaccine is a patriotic act, but someone who doesn't get vaccinated can still be a patriot.
> 
> It's like joining the military after 9/11. That's a patriotic act, but it doesn't mean people who didn't join the service aren't still patriots.


Man, trying to have a conversation with you is like nailing a jellyfish to the wall. 

You are really selling that?


----------



## Pony (Jan 6, 2003)

nchobbyfarm said:


> Man, trying to have a conversation with you is like nailing a jellyfish to the wall.
> 
> You are really selling that?


I don't think most of us are buying it.


----------



## Danaus29 (Sep 12, 2005)

Pony said:


> I don't think most of us are buying it.


That happens when you take the red pill.


----------



## Alice In TX/MO (May 10, 2002)

German scientists say they've figured out why AstraZeneca's and Johnson & Johnson's COVID-19 vaccines can cause rare blood clots


AstraZeneca and Johnson & Johnson's vaccines can cause "mutant" proteins to escape cells, triggering a response in blood vessels, the scientists say.




www.businessinsider.com


----------



## Alice In TX/MO (May 10, 2002)

BBC's Lisa Shaw dies after suffering blood clots following jab


Lisa Shaw, who worked for BBC Newcastle, developed 'severe' headaches a week after having the jab and fell seriously ill a few days later, relatives said in a statement.




www.dailymail.co.uk


----------



## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

I am glad to see @Nevada has ventured out of PRDC and made some new friends


----------



## GTX63 (Dec 13, 2016)

Does this fall under the official "The Science"?
*Masks Didn't Slow COVID Spread: New Study*
Masks Didn't Slow COVID Spread: New Study

Here is the actual study.
Mask mandate and use efficacy in state-level COVID-19 containment


----------



## Rodeo's Bud (Apr 10, 2020)

Nevada said:


> India isn't short on technology, STEM education, or hospital infrastructure. We import a lot of engineering and medical talent from India. But india has a population problem, which makes it more susceptible to shortages, including shortages of medical resources. But that doesn't mean it couldn't happen here. We came dangerously close to overwhelming our hospital system during the last few months of the Trump administration.


No we didn't. Many hospitals were empty and nurses laid off. People couldn't get life saving medical procedures, just in case they needed the beds.

It was a total fabrication.

Sure, in poorly run large cities it was an issue, but most of the United States was fine


----------



## Pony (Jan 6, 2003)

Rodeo's Bud said:


> No we didn't. Many hospitals were empty and nurses laid off. People couldn't get life saving medical procedures, just in case they needed the beds.
> 
> It was a total fabrication.
> 
> Sure, in poorly run large cities it was an issue, but most of the United States was fine


Sadly, in rural areas, hospitals that the govt forced to stop procedures and turn away patients were forced to shut down because they were financially devastated. People lost jobs, and many areas lost access to necessary medical services.

I have no doubt we will see an increase in the number of deaths due to cancer, heart disease, et al, due to the invasive and overbearing government intervention in "health" care.


----------



## Danaus29 (Sep 12, 2005)

Pony said:


> Sadly, in rural areas, hospitals that the govt forced to stop procedures and turn away patients were forced to shut down because they were financially devastated. People lost jobs, and many areas lost access to necessary medical services.
> 
> I have no doubt we will see an increase in the number of deaths due to cancer, heart disease, et al, due to the invasive and overbearing government intervention in "health" care.


I couldn't "like" this, but I agree. The long-term effects of hospital and doctor office shut downs will be apparent in the coming months.


----------



## Nevada (Sep 9, 2004)

Rodeo's Bud said:


> No we didn't. Many hospitals were empty and nurses laid off. People couldn't get life saving medical procedures, just in case they needed the beds.
> 
> It was a total fabrication.


How do you suppose they get the entire world in on that scam, even in Africa & India.


----------



## GTX63 (Dec 13, 2016)

Who is "they"?


----------



## Nevada (Sep 9, 2004)

GTX63 said:


> Who is "they"?


The empty hospitals, of course.


----------



## GTX63 (Dec 13, 2016)

You consider the hospitals turning away elective surgeries and folks needing inpatient care a scam they initiated?


----------



## Rodeo's Bud (Apr 10, 2020)

Nevada said:


> How do you suppose they get the entire world in on that scam, even in Africa & India.


Do you even pay the tiniest bit of attention to what is going on?

Hospitals closed forever, patience dying due to normally treatable ailments, elective and in many cases non elective surgeries being put on hold.

This is in America. What ever on earth does it have to do with India and Africa. They don't have reliable health care even without a pandemic.

Criminy, in India, they don't even have reliable female hygiene products in most of the country. Let alone health care.

It's not even relevant in the smallest way.

So... what does the rest of the world have to do with our response and the way our government hurt people for no reason? Mainly in blue areas?


----------



## Nevada (Sep 9, 2004)

GTX63 said:


> You consider the hospitals turning away elective surgeries and folks needing inpatient care a scam they initiated?


I'm not sure I understood your post. Who are you blaming for the pandemic, and what are you blaming them for?


----------



## Hiro (Feb 14, 2016)

Nevada said:


> I'm not sure I understood your post. Who are you blaming for the pandemic, and what are you blaming them for?


It is obvious the CCP virologists are to blame for the pandemic as many of knew over a year ago. The obvious answer for the power grab in the name of the Wuflu in the West is the usual Marxist suspects here among us and their sycophants.


----------



## wr (Aug 10, 2003)

Pony said:


> Sadly, in rural areas, hospitals that the govt forced to stop procedures and turn away patients were forced to shut down because they were financially devastated. People lost jobs, and many areas lost access to necessary medical services.
> 
> I have no doubt we will see an increase in the number of deaths due to cancer, heart disease, et al, due to the invasive and overbearing government intervention in "health" care.


We have already seen many deaths due to delayed treatment and I recently read an article by a highly respected oncologist who expressed concern that cancer diagnosis since covid are extremely low due to limited access to tests. 

He expected the cancer mortality rate to skyrocket in the near future because of delayed testing and delayed treatment. 

ER doctors in my area are quite concerned about the number of people avoiding ER completely or until things are are dire.


----------



## Pony (Jan 6, 2003)

wr said:


> We have already seen many deaths due to delayed treatment and I recently read an article by a highly respected oncologist who expressed concern that cancer diagnosis since covid are extremely low due to limited access to tests.
> 
> He expected the cancer mortality rate to skyrocket in the near future because of delayed testing and delayed treatment.
> 
> ER doctors in my area are quite concerned about the number of people avoiding ER completely or until things are dire.


Many folks we know are hesitant to go to hospitals because they are concerned over what could happen should they need to be anesthetized. There is zero trust, because the govt is so entrenched in the medical industrial complex. 

Having seen the beast in a govt funded clinic. I cannot say that their concerns are unfounded.


----------



## Mish (Oct 15, 2015)

Pony said:


> Many folks we know are hesitant to go to hospitals because they are concerned over what could happen should they need to be anesthetized. There is zero trust, because the govt is so entrenched in the medical industrial complex.
> 
> Having seen the beast in a govt funded clinic. I cannot say that their concerns are unfounded.


I know in my own family there has been hesitancy to go to the hospital because you have to go alone. Here you still cannot have a person go in with you, either to the doctor, the ER, or inpatient. Which breaks our cardinal rule of always having someone with you when you're incapacitated so that you don't end up missing a limb or something worse. Passed down to me by my surgical nurse grandmother who also didn't trust the system because she worked in it.

Unfortunately, recently we've had an ER visit in which I wasn't allowed into the ambulance or into the ER with my immediate family member. I sat in the car for 9 hours, interspersed with periods of me walking into the ER, being hysterically yelled at to get out, and being a Karen until they updated me on the family member's condition (who luckily was conscious and able to give permission for me to know, or else I'd be sitting there having my own reason to go to the ER).

Another family member had a minor surgery, in which I also had to sit in the car waiting for them to call me with updates. Couldn't even be with them in pre-op or recovery, or leave my car to help when they loaded them into it afterwards.

We've fully landed in crazy town. I wonder if it's going to continue this way even after restrictions are lifted because it also removes any witnesses to potential malpractice that they had to contend with before.


----------



## Danaus29 (Sep 12, 2005)

I'm doing everything I can to stay away from the doctor or hospital. I freak out if they try to do an iv when I can't see and there is no one I know to hold my hand. I even had to be sedated for an iv twice.

Ohio has already lifted many restrictions but hospitals and doctors offices still will not allow visitors. So much for the right to have a patient advocate.


----------



## Pony (Jan 6, 2003)

Mish said:


> I know in my own family there has been hesitancy to go to the hospital because you have to go alone. Here you still cannot have a person go in with you, either to the doctor, the ER, or inpatient. Which breaks our cardinal rule of always having someone with you when you're incapacitated so that you don't end up missing a limb or something worse. Passed down to me by my surgical nurse grandmother who also didn't trust the system because she worked in it.
> 
> Unfortunately, recently we've had an ER visit in which I wasn't allowed into the ambulance or into the ER with my immediate family member. I sat in the car for 9 hours, interspersed with periods of me walking into the ER, being hysterically yelled at to get out, and being a Karen until they updated me on the family member's condition (who luckily was conscious and able to give permission for me to know, or else I'd be sitting there having my own reason to go to the ER).
> 
> ...


This is our greatest concern. We do not go into an ER/hospital situation without someone to be our advocate.

Back when we were first married (20 some years ago), I had to go to the ER. The doctor ordered a drug that caused my blood pressure to drop precipitously. DH went to fetch a nurse, who initially blew him off. But he was persistent, and she came back to find me passed out. 

Had he not been there to insist that she come and check on me, who knows what would have happened? As it is, the doctor ordered a drug to counteract the med I was given, and I recovered quickly.

DH and I solemnly promised that we would never leave the other alone at the mercy and whim of fallible humans with the power of life and death over us. We have discussed that promise recently, in light of what could happen in a world where the govt and powers-that-be have decided that they can dictate what is best for us, whether we agree or not. 

We live in perilous times.


----------



## Danaus29 (Sep 12, 2005)

When I was in labor with my second baby the doctor had checked me and said it would be a couple hours yet. Both he and the nurse left with only hubby and me in the room. The very next contraction I felt the uncontrollable urge to push. Hubby had to run down the hall to get a nurse. (of course they had moved the stupid call button. Why do medical personnel always move the call button?) By the time the doctor came back, the baby's head was on the way out. If hubby hadn't been there I would have given birth alone.

Then there was the time hubby had his appendix out. The nurse came in to examine the incision and started to move his gown from the left side! 

Granted, neither of these were life threatening. Just a lack of care and concern for the patient. It's just some of the things that cause mistrust in the medical system.


----------



## Nevada (Sep 9, 2004)

Danaus29 said:


> Ohio has already lifted many restrictions but hospitals and doctors offices still will not allow visitors. So much for the right to have a patient advocate.


That's not going on here, at least not at Sunrise Children's Hospital. My girlfriend's son had abdominal surgery and I sat with him for a few hours Friday morning so she could run some errands. Here's my visitor pass.


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## Mish (Oct 15, 2015)

Yeah it's definitely regional. My family in Alabama has been able to be in the hospital with my mother very recently. I guess you can only pass/catch Covid in the hospital in places like Ohio and California, you're safe in Alabama and other places.

Does it give you a clue as to why some people are thinking this isn't all about Covid?


----------



## Nevada (Sep 9, 2004)

Mish said:


> Does it give you a clue as to why some people are thinking this isn't all about Covid?


No doubt, some people are going to make the most of it, same as military contractors make the most of war. While I don't like it, I expect it.


----------



## Danaus29 (Sep 12, 2005)

Danaus29 said:


> When I was in labor with my second baby the doctor had checked me and said it would be a couple hours yet. Both he and the nurse left with only hubby and me in the room. The very next contraction I felt the uncontrollable urge to push. Hubby had to run down the hall to get a nurse. (of course they had moved the stupid call button. Why do medical personnel always move the call button?) By the time the doctor came back, the baby's head was on the way out. If hubby hadn't been there I would have given birth alone.


Actually I'm getting ahead of myself. The doctor had put me on pitocin and kept increasing the dose because the contractions were not regular. It got to the point where I could not breathe, the pain was so bad. They kept losing the heartbeat on the belly band and were already talking about prepping an or. They wanted to put a sticky monitor on the baby's head but hubby would not allow it. So when I had a contraction the nurse had to push on my belly so the external monitor could pick up the heartbeat. That stabbing pain caused me to inhale sharply, which helped oxygen get to the baby.


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## GTX63 (Dec 13, 2016)

Nevada said:


> No doubt, some people are going to make the most of it, same as military contractors make the most of war. While I don't like it, I expect it.


That would be a false equivalency. Just as claiming we are following "The Science."
Mixing political science, medicine, junk science, experiments and research, dubious names and scientific jargon is like pouring fruit loops and tomato soup into your chili and continuing to call it "The Chili".
"The Science" is no longer anything more than a cliche.


----------



## Danaus29 (Sep 12, 2005)

Nevada said:


> That's not going on here, at least not at Sunrise Children's Hospital. My girlfriend's son had abdominal surgery and I sat with him for a few hours Friday morning so she could run some errands. Here's my visitor pass.


This was the newspaper article outlining visitor policies, but from what I have heard in many cases visitors are not permitted.









Central Ohio hospitals to allow limited visitors again as pandemic recedes


Mount Carmel, OhioHealth and Ohio State all announced updates to their visitor policies this week. They'll all take effect before the end of the month.



www.dispatch.com





Hubby went to the doctor in March. Their office still does not allow visitors.


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## wdcutrsdaughter (Dec 9, 2012)

In a little town outside of Boston, a small hospital is allowing one visitor at a time. We have a loved one there. 😞 Not sure what the bigger hospitals are allowing.


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## susieneddy (Sep 2, 2011)

We got our 2nd Pfizer shot 45 days ago. No side effects at all. We feel a lot better having it. Just my two cents


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## Nevada (Sep 9, 2004)

GTX63 said:


> "The Science" is no longer anything more than a cliche.


That's based on the idea that since scientific research has to be funded somehow, that the funding source dictates the outcome. That's not what I observed while doing industrial research into refining catalysts. We were guided by activity testing, and that determined the outcome. I could give you some examples of research not turning out the way the powers that be wanted, but I doubt you're interested.


----------



## GTX63 (Dec 13, 2016)

I'm always interested in the exceptions to any rule. You shouldn't expect those you disagree with to all carry closed minds. It isn't contagious.


----------



## Nevada (Sep 9, 2004)

GTX63 said:


> I'm always interested in the exceptions to any rule. You shouldn't expect those you disagree with to all carry closed minds. It isn't contagious.


A good example is incorporating rare earth metals into refining catalyst. The oil company I worked for had interest in that because they owned and operated the world's largest rare earth mine, which produced more than half of the world's production of lanthanides (rare earth metals) at that time. On orders from upstairs we invested a lot of effort into looking at rare earths.

When I was first assigned to the project I told my manager that I didn't hold out much hope that rare earths would be useful in oil refining, but he cautioned me to not go into a research project with preconceived ideas. While he made a good point, my skepticism wasn't taken out of thin air. If there was one thing we knew for sure it's that refining catalysts depended on Lewis acidity, and that Lewis bases inhibited activity for the reactions we were looking for. Lanthanides are Lewis alkaline metals.

But you never know, there could be some obscure benefit to using rare earths. We worked on it for the better part of a year but it turned out that adding rare earths to refining catalyst inhibited activity, as was expected. Years later someone did some exploratory work with using rare earths for reducing SO2 sulfur emissions from FCC units. It worked, but not as well as non-Lanthanides worked. That eventually flopped also.

But the point is that despite pressure from above, science prevailed over corporate whims.


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## Alice In TX/MO (May 10, 2002)

Example of the other end of the “science” spectrum:

cigarette research


----------



## Nevada (Sep 9, 2004)

Alice In TX/MO said:


> Example of the other end of the “science” spectrum:
> 
> cigarette research


The cigarette research strategy is being used today in climate research. They want the public to believe that, like cigarettes being bad for you, climate research is so complicated that nobody really knows for sure. Heck, for all we know cigarettes and greenhouse gases are good for us. Right?

Sure, human health and climate are both complicated topics, but that's why we have medical doctors and climatologists. They can tell us what the risks really are.


----------



## Alice In TX/MO (May 10, 2002)

I think you TOTALLY missed the point about early research into the harms of cigarette smoke. The research was funded by the tobacco companies and then suppressed.


----------



## Alice In TX/MO (May 10, 2002)

10 of the Most Appalling Facts about Tobacco Company Misdeeds


In 2006, the major tobacco companies were found guilty of racketeering, aka organized criminal activity. Here are 10 of the most troubling facts.




www.lung.org


----------



## Alice In TX/MO (May 10, 2002)

New evidence shows the sugar industry suppressed studies linking sugar to heart disease and cancer


The Sugar Association bills itself as the ‘scientific voice’ of the US sugar industry, but its past is increasingly under scrutiny.




www.businessinsider.com


----------



## Alice In TX/MO (May 10, 2002)

Food Coloring Is Probably Bad for Us. It’s Also Unnecessary. Why Hasn’t the FDA Banned It?


In Britain, McDonald’s fries have four ingredients: potatoes, vegetable oil, dextrose, and salt. In the U.S., McDonald’s fries have a whopping 19...




slate.com


----------



## GTX63 (Dec 13, 2016)

Alice In TX/MO said:


> I think you TOTALLY missed the point about early research into the harms of cigarette smoke. The research was funded by the tobacco companies and then suppressed.


He didn't miss it. There are so many examples of fraud and outright deceit within the recent years of R&D that using the medical field, for which is the OP, just keeps the door open for valid refutations of existing "science". He tried another field and well, different field same dirt.
A bit of honesty goes a long way towards the discussion, but if one is so sold on patriotism and the likes of the Fauci crew that it seems a single concession is one too many.
In this specific case, the truth sucks when it isn't on your side.


----------



## Nevada (Sep 9, 2004)

Alice In TX/MO said:


> I think you TOTALLY missed the point about early research into the harms of cigarette smoke. The research was funded by the tobacco companies and then suppressed.


You don't think that industry funded their own research into greenhouse gases & climate change, and then suppressed the findings?


----------



## GTX63 (Dec 13, 2016)

In relation to the OP topic, I think you should read the latest batch of emails from Mr. Fauci and his associates. "Funding Research" would also be part of that topic.


----------



## Nevada (Sep 9, 2004)

GTX63 said:


> In relation to the OP topic, I think you should read the latest batch of emails from Mr. Fauci and his associates. "Funding Research" would also be part of that topic.


You don't think the NIH should be funding research? Funding research is a good thing.


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## GTX63 (Dec 13, 2016)

Nevada said:


> You don't think the NIH should be funding research? Funding research is a good thing.


Anthony Fauci's Emails Reveal The Pressure That Fell On One Man
You should read the emails and do some research of what you have been promoting and whom, before continuing.


----------



## GTX63 (Dec 13, 2016)

Here is another report on "The Science" and also covers some other related issues such as integrity, truth, facts, misrepresentations, cover ups, collusion, and the fact that some of the above mentioned emails have been redacted due to a possible ongoing criminal investigation.
All responses from Pro Covid/Science supporters are welcome.
<iframe width="560" height="315" src="



" title="YouTube video player" frameborder="0" allow="accelerometer; autoplay; clipboard-write; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture" allowfullscreen></iframe>


----------



## nodak3 (Feb 5, 2003)

Interesting factoid from our area: local hospitals are reporting now that around 99% of their covid cases and deaths are among the unvaccinated. And are no longer among the older crowd. Last week in Colorado a child died, too young for the shot. Caught covid from an unvaxxed older relative. So sad.


----------



## Alice In TX/MO (May 10, 2002)

It's a viral disease. It will run its course, no matter what humans do. The results may be tweaked a bit, but it's going to do what it will do. 

All the hand wringing is useless.


----------



## Pony (Jan 6, 2003)

nodak3 said:


> Interesting factoid from our area: local hospitals are reporting now that around 99% of their covid cases and deaths are among the unvaccinated. And are no longer among the older crowd. Last week in Colorado a child died, too young for the shot. Caught covid from an unvaxxed older relative. So sad.


The hospitals report whatever they are told to report. 

If you want to get the mRNA injection, you go for it. 

If the child died from the CCP virus, then I would say it's a fair assumption that the child had co-morbidities.

Of course it is sad, but to make it a "injected/non-injected" issue is setting up a distraction.


----------



## Nevada (Sep 9, 2004)

Alice In TX/MO said:


> It's a viral disease. It will run its course, no matter what humans do. The results may be tweaked a bit, but it's going to do what it will do.


I suppose that we'll never know for sure what the COVID-19 death toll would have been without vaccines, but it can be estimated. I won't post any speculative information because I know that it wouldn't be received well. But I can gleen factual information from CDC data.









No, The Death Rate For Vaccinated People Is Not Higher Than That Of Unvaccinated People


Vaccine breakthrough cases only occur in a small percentage of vaccinated people. And public health officials say that these cases actually reinforce the effectiveness of the vaccines, unlike the post suggests.




www.capradio.org





So how are vaccinated people doing? As of May 4, 2021, 105 million people were fully vaccinated against covid. There were 9,245 "breakthrough" infections reported, or a rate of less than 0.009%. Of those cases 112 patients died. Death rate of those infected was 112 / 9245 = 1.2%.

So how are unvaccinated people doing? As of May 10, 2021, the total US population was about 330 million people. There were 32,543,257 infections reported, or a rate of about 10%, Of those cases 578,945 died, Death rate of those infected was 578,945 / 32,543,257 = 1.8%.

To compare those infection and death rates, *unvaccinated people were more than 1000 times more likely to get infected than unvaccinated people, and 1.5 times more likely to die if they got infected. *The comparison isn't even close.

My point is that if COVID-19 were allowed to run its course without the aid of vaccines the death toll would be much worse than it is today. So this isn't a situation where we have to stand by and wait for the inevitable. We have an opportunity to do something about it.


----------



## GTX63 (Dec 13, 2016)

Nevada, I'm surprised you are bringing life back to this thread. The fallacies, lies and disinformation are and have been made public for some time now. You should probably try and amend your position somewhat and 86 your stack of old bullet points.


----------



## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

The number of cases of a heart inflammation condition in 16- to 24-year-olds was higher than expected after they received their second dose of Pfizer’s or Moderna’s Covid-19 vaccines, the CDC said.
There have been 275 reported cases of myocarditis or pericarditis, which are inflammation conditions involving the heart, in people ages 16 to 24 as of May 31, according to a CDC presentation.









CDC says heart inflammation cases were higher than expected in 16- to 24-year-olds after second Covid vaccine shot, but still rare


The number of cases of a heart inflammation condition in 16- to 24-year-olds was higher than expected after they received their second dose, the CDC said.




www.cnbc.com


----------



## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

There are many Ivermectin efficacy footnotes on the video


----------



## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

The guy lacking hair in the video
Dr. Pierre Kory M.P.A., M.D. Founding member of the FLCCC Alliance and co-author of the MATH+ and I-MASK+ Prophylaxis and Treatment Protocols for COVID-19 Contributions to the Field of Medicine Pierre Kory is the former Chief of the Critical Care Service and Medical Director of the Trauma and Life Support Center at the University of Wisconsin. 

He is considered one of the world pioneers in the use of ultrasound by physicians in the diagnosis and treatment of critically ill patients. He helped develop and run the first national courses in Critical Care Ultrasonography in the U.S., and served as a Director of these courses with the American College of Chest Physicians for several years. 

He is also the senior editor of the most popular textbook in the field titled “Point of Care Ultrasound,” a book that is now in its 2 nd edition and that has been translated into 7 languages worldwide. He has led over 100 courses nationally and internationally teaching physicians this now-standard skill in his specialty.


https://covid19criticalcare.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/01/FLCCC-Alliance-member-CV-Kory.pdf


----------



## Nevada (Sep 9, 2004)

GTX63 said:


> Nevada, I'm surprised you are bringing life back to this thread. The fallacies, lies and disinformation are and have been made public for some time now. You should probably try and amend your position somewhat and 86 your stack of old bullet points.


I'm sorry if spoke out of turn. I've been busy with other matters and my HT participation has ben low the past few weeks.

Where do you suggest I get vaccine information from?


----------



## Nevada (Sep 9, 2004)

HDRider said:


> The number of cases of a heart inflammation condition in 16- to 24-year-olds was higher than expected after they received their second dose of Pfizer’s or Moderna’s Covid-19 vaccines, the CDC said.


Has the Moderna vaccine been approved for 12-15? I thought that was still in the works.


----------



## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

Nevada said:


> Has the Moderna vaccine been approved for 12-15? I thought that was still in the works.


I do not know


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## nodak3 (Feb 5, 2003)

Nevada, you are spot on. Sadly, we live in a society that cannot understand basic math and science. Covid has made many sick, killed many, destroyed careers, messed up our social interactions. But for some reason I do not fathom people would rather believe strange conspiracy theories and junk science and fight the people telling them the truth about the virus than they would fight the virus.

Here is where we are right now in our country: while millions around the world die and would crawl on hot cinders and ground glass for a shot, Americans brag about standing for their freedom and refuse the shot.

I doubt it is political. Biden got the shot, and says everyone should. Trump got the shot and says everyone should.

I personally believe it more sinister: people are so spoiled they are holding their breaths and having a collective hissy fit instead of just fighting the danged virus.

So people will continue to get sick and die. Some will be the one's who refuse the shot. Others will be those who took the shot but got breakthrough cases because of the high rate of infection in some areas. Others will be the immunocompromised, the cancer patients, the ones who are not as strong. And the "my rights my freedom" crowd will not give a flying fig who died because they exercised their rights.

Character is showing. Someday they will stand before their Maker, and explain their love of rebellion against helping their fellow human beings and their stubborn refusal to "put on the lifejacket."

So be it. Darwin awards in the offing. The rest of us get the shot, continue to mask when around people if we do not know their vaccine status for their safety, avoid the venues that are more likely to be where the virus spreads, and get on with life. Restaurants and bars will continue to lose money. Stores will close when surges occur. Shortages will continue, wood will continue to be expensive, etc.

It could be prevented. It should be prevented. But hey, we proved we are free people, right??


----------



## Alice In TX/MO (May 10, 2002)

Interesting predictions you made there. I think they are akin to wishful thinking on your part. 

Someday we will look back on this and realize people should have been less gullible.


----------



## Redlands Okie (Nov 28, 2017)

Nevada said:


> I suppose that we'll never know for sure what the COVID-19 death toll would have been without vaccines, but it can be estimated I won't post any speculative information because I know that it wouldn't be received well. But I can gleen factual information from CDC data.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Even ignoring the inflated, convoluted, political methods used in counting the death totals, none of the numbers above is justification for wrecking this economy. In some ways this country will never recover from what has been done. So now that they have vaccines, and its “so easy” to modify as needed, hopefully this covid mess will be put in the rear view mirror and forgotten in our everyday living. No reason to loose any sleep on the subject anymore I would think.


----------



## Redlands Okie (Nov 28, 2017)

nodak3 said:


> Nevada, you are spot on. Sadly, we live in a society that cannot understand basic math and science. Covid has made many sick, killed many, destroyed careers, messed up our social interactions. But for some reason I do not fathom people would rather believe strange conspiracy theories and junk science and fight the people telling them the truth about the virus than they would fight the virus.
> 
> Here is where we are right now in our country: while millions around the world die and would crawl on hot cinders and ground glass for a shot, Americans brag about standing for their freedom and refuse the shot.
> 
> ...




“we are free people, right?”

Many seem to forget this. Shots are available. Take them or not. Done deal. Let everyone handle it as they see fit. 

"my rights my freedom" Something to remember. Try to live it and let others do the same.


----------



## Pony (Jan 6, 2003)

nodak3 said:


> Nevada, you are spot on. Sadly, we live in a society that cannot understand basic math and science. Covid has made many sick, killed many, destroyed careers, messed up our social interactions. But for some reason I do not fathom people would rather believe strange conspiracy theories and junk science and fight the people telling them the truth about the virus than they would fight the virus.
> 
> Here is where we are right now in our country: while millions around the world die and would crawl on hot cinders and ground glass for a shot, Americans brag about standing for their freedom and refuse the shot.
> 
> ...


Character is showing. 

Yours is quite clear. 

Remember, you, too, will stand before Almighty God one day. I'd recommend being a bit more concerned about your status with Him, than the state of the souls of others.

Statements like yours are the actual reason Matthew 7:1 says, "Judge not, lest you also be judged." You don't get to decide who is right in God's sight. You don't get to tell those of us who believe in freedom that God is going to condemn us because we didn't line up to be part of a huge medical experiment.


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## Nevada (Sep 9, 2004)

nodak3 said:


> I doubt it is political. Biden got the shot, and says everyone should. Trump got the shot and says everyone should.


I don't know. I don't see political gain one way or another, but it does seem that vaccine hesitancy is more common with republicans. It could be that they have been conditioned to believing conspiracy theories the past few years.

One thing's for sure,, there's no point in arguing with someone who refuses to believe facts. It's like trying to nail jello to the wall.


----------



## no really (Aug 7, 2013)

As I've posted before the largest groups not taking the vaccine are the minorities in particular the black population.


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## Redlands Okie (Nov 28, 2017)

Nevada said:


> I don't know.I don't see political gain one way or another, but it does seem that vaccine hesitancy is more common with republicans. It could be that they have been conditioned to believing conspiracy theories the past few years.
> 
> One thing's for sure,, there's no point in arguing with someone who refuses to believe facts. It's like trying to nail jello to the wall.



“One thing's for sure,, there's no point in arguing with someone who refuses to believe facts. It's like trying to nail jello to the wall.”



On that I agree with you.


----------



## Alice In TX/MO (May 10, 2002)

Aha...








BREAKING: CDC Schedules 'Emergency Meeting' On Heart Inflammation Cases In COVID Vaccine Recipients


National File's reporting, falsely labeled "misleading" by Twitter, is once again vindicated by the CDC




nationalfile.com


----------



## Nevada (Sep 9, 2004)

no really said:


> As I've posted before the largest groups not taking the vaccine are the minorities in particular the black population.


I've read that minorities are more likely to decline the vaccine because they think there might be a hidden fee.


----------



## Hiro (Feb 14, 2016)

Nevada said:


> I've read that minorities are more likely to decline the vaccine because they think there might be a hidden fee.


Whatever you have been reading has been wrong for so long, I am unsure why you would keep reading it.


----------



## no really (Aug 7, 2013)

Nevada said:


> I've read that minorities are more likely to decline the vaccine because they think there might be a hidden fee.


No, the reason is history. Government medical experiments in the past on minority subjects.


----------



## Alice In TX/MO (May 10, 2002)

Why the U.S. military exposed minority soldiers to toxic mustard gas


During World War II, the U.S. government conducted experiments with mustard gas and other chemicals on thousands of American troops. A new NPR investigation has found that some military experiments singled out African-American, Japanese-American and Puerto Rican servicemen by race. Judy Woodruff...




www.pbs.org


----------



## Alice In TX/MO (May 10, 2002)

*Tuskegee Experiment: The Infamous Syphilis Study*
In order to track the disease’s full progression, researchers provided no effective care as the study's African American participants experienced severe health problems including blindness, mental impairment—or death.







Tuskegee Study - Timeline - CDC - OS


Tuskegee Syphilis Study Timeline




www.cdc.gov


----------



## Alice In TX/MO (May 10, 2002)

Gynecology 



https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/made-by-history/wp/2018/06/04/american-medicine-was-built-on-the-backs-of-slaves-and-it-still-affects-how-doctors-treat-patients-today/


----------



## Pony (Jan 6, 2003)

And now, Fed Gov has found a way to use a cross-section of the entire country for their medical experiments.

How woke of them.


----------



## Alice In TX/MO (May 10, 2002)

The virtue signaling pro-vaccine folks might consider toning down their rhetoric.


----------



## Pony (Jan 6, 2003)

Alice In TX/MO said:


> The virtue signaling pro-vaccine folks might consider toning down their rhetoric.


They can't. They're Following the Leader, and are drunk on sanctimonious feelings, swimming in self-righteousness. Their concern is not the health of others, but their own actions that put them in good social standing.

Pity those who actually do research, and make decisions based on fact: the new Juden.


----------



## GTX63 (Dec 13, 2016)

Pony said:


> They can't. They're Following the Leader, and are drunk on sanctimonious feelings, swimming in self-righteousness. Their concern is not the health of others, but their own actions that put them in good social standing


Their leader just did an interview where the topic of his contradictions, false statements to the public, backdoor funding of verboten research, aannnnnddd his emails came up.

His response?
"Attacks against me are really also attacks against science."


----------



## sharkerbaby (Jan 15, 2016)

Unfortunately, the interviewer was one of his syncophants so the reaction was a lot of sympathetic head nodding and consoling hand patting rather than the more deserved amazed pushback at the self-important audacity that was displayed by his words


----------



## Pony (Jan 6, 2003)

GTX63 said:


> Their leader just did an interview where the topic of his contradictions, false statements to the public, backdoor funding of verboten research, aannnnnddd his emails came up.
> 
> His response?
> "Attacks against me are really also attacks against science."


----------



## Pony (Jan 6, 2003)

sharkerbaby said:


> Unfortunately, the interviewer was one of his syncophants so the reaction was a lot of sympathetic head nodding and consoling hand patting rather than the more deserved amazed pushback at the self-important audacity that was displayed by his words


I "liked" your post to acknowledge that you said what should have happened, not to affirm the sycophants' attempts to gain favor with our modern-day Caligulas. (or is the plural "caligulae"?)


----------



## Alice In TX/MO (May 10, 2002)

'Urgent' British report calls for complete cessation of COVID vaccines in humans - America's Frontline Doctors


An "urgent preliminary report of Yellow Card data" issued by the UK-based Evidence-Based Medicine Consultancy Ltd submitted to the Medicines and Healthcare Products Regulatory Agency (MHRA) states that "the MHRA now has more than enough evidence on the Yellow Card system to declare the COVID-19...




americasfrontlinedoctors.org


----------



## po boy (Jul 12, 2010)

Worldwide 480 million are fully vaccinated, that's 6.2% of the world population. The US is at 142 million or about 1/3 of the total.
I haven't taken it and doubt I will.
U can sort the data by clicking the column on the right.


hong kong vaccination rate - Google Search


----------



## Pony (Jan 6, 2003)

Something has been tickling my brain...

When, exactly, did TPTB decide that herd immunity can only be attained through experimental vaccines? What about natural immunity?


----------



## Alice In TX/MO (May 10, 2002)

I have another question. The U.S. Government has give the U.S. vaccine producing companies immunity from prosecution.

What about the folks who promoted it? What about the doctors who advocated for it? What about the employers who required employees to receive the vaccination? Are they liable?


----------



## po boy (Jul 12, 2010)

Pony said:


> Something has been tickling my brain...
> 
> When, exactly, did TPTB decide that herd immunity can only be attained through experimental vaccines? What about natural immunity?


When we reach herd immunity they will credit the vaccine but it could be natural.


----------



## Pony (Jan 6, 2003)

po boy said:


> When we reach herd immunity they will credit the vaccine but it could be natural.


It seems to me that it has proven to produce a natural immunity, so "could be" sort of hedges a bet. Why do you qualify your statement? Just asking, not sniping.

I have yet to see an outside/impartial source studying and publishing on the efficacy of the mRNA genetic experiment. Frankly, I have yet to see any well built, well executed studies of the experiment from any source.

Let's just assume that a healthy immune system is going to produce a healthy response, i.e. immunity. Why they are pushing what my husband calls The Death Jab?


----------



## Alice In TX/MO (May 10, 2002)

Pavlov. Train your subjects to respond to the stimulus of a “news” report.


----------



## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

They recommend vaccine even if you have had covid because those that have had it twice are often in worse condition the second time. They also are finding that you may not be protected as well for variants by having the infection only.


----------



## Nevada (Sep 9, 2004)

Pony said:


> Something has been tickling my brain...
> 
> When, exactly, did TPTB decide that herd immunity can only be attained through experimental vaccines? What about natural immunity?


I haven't heard that. Do you have a link?

My understanding is that natural herd immunity can, of course, be reached. But the death toll would be unacceptable.


----------



## Nevada (Sep 9, 2004)

Alice In TX/MO said:


> What about the folks who promoted it? What about the doctors who advocated for it? What about the employers who required employees to receive the vaccination? Are they liable?


The standard for suing professionals depends on best available science. So if a doctor recommended a vaccine that created problems for you and the best available science said that the vaccine is a good idea, you don't have much chance in prevailing in a lawsuit.

A good example of that is the thalidomide disaster, which resulted in disfiguring birth defects. During the early 1960s in Europe thalidomide use was commonly prescribed for pregnancy discomfort. Despite huge numbers of disfiguring birth defects doctors were immune because best available science said that thalidomide was safe.


----------



## Pony (Jan 6, 2003)

Nevada said:


> I haven't heard that. Do you have a link?
> 
> My understanding is that natural herd immunity can, of course, be reached. But the death toll would be unacceptable.


Like the death toll from the mRNA genetic experiment?


ETA: Link to what? I ain't your google mama, and any link I post will be dismissed by you. Whatever it is you're looking for, go find it yourself, or you won't believe me.


----------



## Nevada (Sep 9, 2004)

painterswife said:


> They recommend vaccine even if you have had covid because those that have had it twice are often in worse condition the second time. They also are finding that you may not be protected as well for variants by having the infection only.


That's true. Early in the vaccine rollout persons who had covid and recovered were asked to not take the vaccine. But that wasn't because they didn't need it. It was because they already had some immunity and they wanted to reserve the vaccines for people who had no immunity at all. They are now asking covid survivors to come forward to get vaccinated.


----------



## Pony (Jan 6, 2003)

Nevada said:


> The standard for suing professionals depends on best available science. So if a doctor recommended a vaccine created problems for you and the best available science said that the vaccine is a good idea, you don't have much chance in prevailing in a lawsuit.
> 
> A good example of that is the thalidomide disaster, which resulted in *disfiguring birth defects*. During the early 1960s in Europe thalidomide use was commonly prescribed for pregnancy discomfort. Despite huge numbers of disfiguring birth defects doctors were immune because best available science said that thalidomide was safe.


"Disfiguring birth defects"??? That's a pretty mild phrase for what happened to the children of thalidomide. You are either ignorant of what happened to children and families, or you are using their agony to prove your point.


----------



## Nevada (Sep 9, 2004)

Pony said:


> "Disfiguring birth defects"??? That's a pretty mild phrase for what happened to the children of thalidomide. You are either ignorant of what happened to children and families, or you are using their agony to prove your point.


That one hit pretty close to home for me. I have a cousin who was a thalidomide baby.


----------



## Pony (Jan 6, 2003)

Nevada said:


> That one hit pretty close to home for me. I have a cousin who was a thalidomide baby.


Then you should know that the birth defects were devastating, not merely "disfiguring." I am "of a certain age" at which I have met people who suffered from thalidomide damage to one degree or another. 


BTW, I removed my remark about CNN. Figured it crossed a line.


----------



## no really (Aug 7, 2013)

Nevada said:


> The standard for suing professionals depends on best available science. So if a doctor recommended a vaccine created problems for you and the best available science said that the vaccine is a good idea, you don't have much chance in prevailing in a lawsuit.
> 
> A good example of that is the thalidomide disaster, which resulted in disfiguring birth defects. During the early 1960s in Europe thalidomide use was commonly prescribed for pregnancy discomfort. Despite huge numbers of disfiguring birth defects doctors were immune because best available science said that thalidomide was safe.


Good reason for waiting as long as possible, to see how this plays out. Hopefully there will be some statistics available.


----------



## sharkerbaby (Jan 15, 2016)

painterswife said:


> They recommend vaccine even if you have had covid because those that have had it twice are often in worse condition the second time. They also are finding that you may not be protected as well for variants by having the infection only.


I have not heard either of these statements, do you have a reference I can read?


----------



## Alice In TX/MO (May 10, 2002)

Nevada, I think you are a skilled debater. Good job attempting to deflect my response based on ONE word.

I am not a doctor, not a retired doctor, and not going to make recommendations about Ivomec dosage. 

YOU chose to get snarky, then deflect. Almost well played.


----------



## Nevada (Sep 9, 2004)

Alice In TX/MO said:


> Nevada, I think you are a skilled debater. Good job attempting to deflect my response based on ONE word.
> 
> I am not a doctor, not a retired doctor, and not going to make recommendations about Ivomec dosage.
> 
> YOU chose to get snarky, then deflect. Almost well played.


It was certainly not my intent to be snarky. My intention was to point out that most of what the NIH and Dr. Fauci says is discarded out of hand, but evidently if the NIH says something that agrees with you it's accepted.

So the NIH is either in on this grand conspiracy or it's not. It's not fair for you to pick and choose what you keep and what you discard when I'm not given the same opportunity.


----------



## Alice In TX/MO (May 10, 2002)

Good grief. READ before posting. 

I looked for some "authoritative" source that someone ELSE might find credible. 

I told you that I didn't want to be the source. I am not taking Ivermectin. I am not going to recommend Ivermectin due to liability issues and the general inability of many folks to make good decisions.

You don't seem to understand that I really don't care if the NIH is in on it. The recommendation on my part was simply the result of a google search.

You assumed that I believe the NIH is credible. Then you snark that what I did wasn't "fair" based on your false assumption.

My grandson understands that "fair" is a human construct. 

Fair has no place in the Covid Scare Programming Policy handbook. (this is sarcasm/humor)


----------



## Pony (Jan 6, 2003)

Alice In TX/MO said:


> Good grief. READ before posting.
> 
> I looked for some "authoritative" source that someone ELSE might find credible.
> 
> ...


Fair has no place when you're instilling fear?


----------



## Alice In TX/MO (May 10, 2002)

My mother ALWAYS said, “Life isn’t fair.”

She was the best and most reliable credible source that I know of.


----------



## Rodeo's Bud (Apr 10, 2020)

Alice In TX/MO said:


> I think you TOTALLY missed the point about early research into the harms of cigarette smoke. The research was funded by the tobacco companies and then suppressed.


The American Heart Association was funded by the vegetable oil companies in the 40's.

Guess why they tell us vegetable oil and margarine is better for us?


----------



## Alice In TX/MO (May 10, 2002)

They don’t say that anymore.


----------



## Pony (Jan 6, 2003)

Alice In TX/MO said:


> My mother ALWAYS said, “Life isn’t fair.”
> 
> She was the best and most reliable credible source that I know of.


Or, as Westley (aka Dread Pirate Roberts) said, "Life is pain, Highness. Anyone who tells you differently is selling something."


----------



## Pony (Jan 6, 2003)

Alice In TX/MO said:


> They don’t say that anymore.


Yet, it's become a part of the collective consciousness that some people will still tell you that they are better for you than natural fats.

We have been learning the past few years that, once people are convinced, they do not care about facts.


----------



## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

Alice In TX/MO said:


> They don’t say that anymore.


Funding dried up


----------



## Forcast (Apr 15, 2014)

The Hill: Canada rejects 300K J&J vaccine doses made at troubled Baltimore facility | TheHill.








Canada rejects 300K J&J vaccine doses made at troubled Baltimore facility


Canada has rejected 300,000 doses of the Johnson & Johnson vaccine from the U.S. after it was made at a Baltimore facility riddled with contamination issues.“Health Canada has completed its qua…




thehill.com


----------



## Nevada (Sep 9, 2004)

Forcast said:


> The Hill: Canada rejects 300K J&J vaccine doses made at troubled Baltimore facility | TheHill.


That's extremely troubling, since there is already too much hesitancy surrounding this vaccine. It's possible for a contamination issue to derail the entire vaccine program.

The initial (Salk) polio vaccine rollout was completely derailed because a vaccine producer accidently sent out a batch of vaccine that hadn't been unattenuated. The result was that people who got the contaminated vaccine were, in fact, injected with live polio virus. In other words, some vaccine recipients were given the very same virus that they were getting vaccinated to avoid.

It should be noted that the government wasn't involved in acquiring or distributing the Salk vaccine.

The initial 1955 program was to vaccinate first and second graders at school. While I was 5 at the time and wouldn't enter first grade until the following year, I got the vaccine anyway. But I can still remember the hype about the vaccine. TV ads promoted the vaccine, and in 1956 Elvis famously received his Salk vaccine shot during a live broadcast of the Ed Sullivan Show.










But despite TV ads and celebrity endorsements the entire vaccine rollout came to a halt following news of the bad vaccine batch. The public had lost confidence in the vaccine. Nobody wanted it. It wouldn't be until 1963 when the Sabin vaccine became available that mass vaccinations would resume. Until then Americans would rather take their chances with catching polio than take the vaccine. Besides, similar to covid, polio presented itself to most people as a case of the flu. Polio victims only rarely ended up in an iron lung.

That may be part of why I don't like hearing unproven allegations against the covis vaccines. I know how easily a vaccine rollout can be derailed.


----------



## wr (Aug 10, 2003)

Nevada said:


> That may be part of why I don't like hearing unproven allegations against the covis vaccines. I know how easily a vaccine rollout can be derailed.


I believe the allegations you responded to are fact, not unfounded but as a rule, you're pretty quick to dismiss any negatives, which affects your credibility, in my opinion.


----------



## Nevada (Sep 9, 2004)

wr said:


> I believe the allegations you responded to are fact, not unfounded but as a rule, you're pretty quick to dismiss any negatives, which affects your credibility, in my opinion.


This is a very serious topic, regardless of what you or anyone else thinks of me. People refuse the covid vaccine at their own peril. The delta variant is extremely dangerous, in fact a matter of life & death.

There's one more polio vaccine fact that relates to the covid vaccines. Both the Salk & Sabin vaccines were considered experimental at the time of their respective rollouts.


----------



## no really (Aug 7, 2013)

Nevada said:


> This is a very serious topic, regardless of what you or anyone else thinks of me. People refuse the covid vaccine at their own peril. The delta variant is extremely dangerous, in fact a matter of life & death.
> 
> There's one more polio vaccine fact that relates to the covid vaccines. Both the Salk & Sabin vaccines were considered experimental at the time of their respective rollouts.


Do you think this is a conspiracy theory? Do you not believe the public should have all available information?









Canada rejects 300,000 doses of the J.&J. vaccine made in the U.S. because of contamination issues. (Published 2021)


The Canadian regulator also banned the use of all products made at Emergent BioSolutions’ plant in Baltimore until it conducts an on-site inspection.




www.nytimes.com


----------



## Pony (Jan 6, 2003)

People accept this "vaccine" at their own peril. Too much information about it is suppressed. Too many people believe in this pseudo-vaccine more fervently than little kids believe in Santa Claus.

BTW, all those supposedly rare breakthrough cases are hitting the Dems who are fleeing their responsibilities in TX. 









2 More Texas House Democrats Test Positive for COVID-19 After Fleeing to DC


A further two members of a Texas Democratic Party delegation of lawmakers who flew to Washington have tested positive for COVID-19, officials said Sunday.




www.theepochtimes.com


----------



## Nevada (Sep 9, 2004)

no really said:


> Do you think this is a conspiracy theory? Do you not believe the public should have all available information?


I'm not doubting the story. I'm just saying that it's sad news for the vaccine effort.


----------



## Alice In TX/MO (May 10, 2002)

I am listening to an interview of Gary Taubes by Dr. Peter Attia. At the moment, they are discussing pathologic science, which is similar to confirmation bias. Fascinating.









#167 - Gary Taubes: Bad science and challenging the conventional wisdom of obesity - Peter Attia


“Doing a background analysis is the hard, relentless, rigorous grunt work of science. It's endless and thankless, because if you do it right, all you'll do is prove that you were wrong all along.” —Gary Taubes




peterattiamd.com





I haven’t gotten to the part on why our conventional wisdom about obesity is incorrect.


----------



## no really (Aug 7, 2013)

Nevada said:


> I'm not doubting the story. I'm just saying that it's sad news for the vaccine effort.


It is what it is and those that are contemplating the vaccine or have had it deserve to understand the issues.


----------



## wr (Aug 10, 2003)

no really said:


> It is what it is and those that are contemplating the vaccine or have had it deserve to understand the issues.


I would suggest they deserve to understand the issues as well but the manufacturers play word games when faced with side effects and that created an atmosphere of mistrust. 

People died from AZ bloodclots and others had their lives forever changed while the manufacturer steadfastly refused to admit it could be a problem, forcing people to seek out the media in order to be heard. 

Repeat with heart inflamation, Guillain-Barré Syndrome, theodd fatality that quickly gets blamed on underlying heath conditions and whatever comes next.

Transparency would have hurt the vaccination program far less.


----------



## Vjk (Apr 28, 2020)

Alice In TX/MO said:


> I am listening to an interview of Gary Taubes by Dr. Peter Attia. At the moment, they are discussing pathologic science, which is similar to confirmation bias. Fascinating.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


fatness causes obesity.


----------



## Danaus29 (Sep 12, 2005)

The very fact that people who are fully vaccinated are no longer being tested for covid is suspicious. The CDC knows there are breakthrough cases and that those people can spread Covid. Yet vaccinated people are not tested and not urged to quarantine. I said at the beginning that this would be their way of ensuring covid is spread all over.


----------



## no really (Aug 7, 2013)

We are going to see an uptick in covid, since the illegals coming in are not vaccinated,nor are they being tested. They are being shipped all over the US now. These people are from mainly central and south America.


----------



## Nevada (Sep 9, 2004)

no really said:


> It is what it is and those that are contemplating the vaccine or have had it deserve to understand the issues.


Sure, we all deserve to know the facts. I just think it's tragic that tens of thousands of unvaccinated Americans will die needlessly before this pandemic fades away.


----------



## no really (Aug 7, 2013)

Nevada said:


> Sure, we all deserve to know the facts. I just think it's tragic that tens of thousands of unvaccinated Americans will die needlessly before this pandemic fades away.


Just have to wonder about the agenda when all those unvaccinated illegals are being shipped all over the US.


----------



## Pony (Jan 6, 2003)

Nevada said:


> Sure, we all deserve to know the facts. I just think it's tragic that tens of thousands of unvaccinated Americans will die needlessly before this pandemic fades away.


What about the Americans (and other nationalities) who are dying unnecessarily because of the irresponsible rush to force this injection before the pandemic fades away?


----------



## Danaus29 (Sep 12, 2005)

What about the countless Americans who died waiting for necessary medical proceedures in the name of preventing a medical overrun that never happened?


----------



## Nevada (Sep 9, 2004)

Pony said:


> What about the Americans (and other nationalities) who are dying unnecessarily because of the irresponsible rush to force this injection before the pandemic fades away?


How many?


----------



## Hiro (Feb 14, 2016)

Nevada said:


> How many?


You are predictable if nothing else. So, now you focus on the vaccination skeptics after focusing on the lockdown skeptics. But, how about using that thing between you ears and explain the logic with what @no really and others have been trying to get your ilk to explain or at least question:


----------



## Alice In TX/MO (May 10, 2002)

Nevada, with all due respect, I was going to copy and paste several sweeping statements that you have made that are dire predictions, based on fear, not facts. Instead, here’s a sample.

“I just think it's tragic that tens of thousands of unvaccinated Americans will die needlessly before this pandemic fades away.”

That is simply a wild guess. It’s not a fact. It’s just flinging around words grouped together in a sentence.


----------



## Alice In TX/MO (May 10, 2002)

“That's extremely troubling, since there is already too much hesitancy surrounding this vaccine.”

You THINK there is too much hesitancy, but that is 1) a judgment call in your part, and 2) not true. There is EXACTLY what should be, given the reality. No one can change it.

We won’t know who made the best decisions for YEARS. It is perfectly possible that on October 2, 2022, everyone who received a Covid injection develops ingrown toenails and locomotor ataxia. NO ONE KNOWS.


----------



## Alice In TX/MO (May 10, 2002)

“People refuse the covid vaccine at their own peril. The delta variant is extremely dangerous, in fact a matter of life & death.”

Or not.

Hyperbole. Again.


----------



## Nevada (Sep 9, 2004)

Alice In TX/MO said:


> “People refuse the covid vaccine at their own peril. The delta variant is extremely dangerous, in fact a matter of life & death.”
> 
> Or not.
> 
> Hyperbole. Again.


Just to be clear about what you're saying, you're predicting zero deaths from the delta variant?

*Deaths from the coronavirus are increasing again as the delta variant rips through unvaccinated pockets of the country, the director of the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention said Friday.*









Covid deaths on the rise again in the U.S. after weeks of decline, CDC says


Deaths from Covid-19 are increasing after weeks of decline, along with hospitalizations and cases, the CDC said Friday.




www.cnbc.com


----------



## Alice In TX/MO (May 10, 2002)

Your statement implies that EVERYONE who decides not to get the injection is going to die. Life or death. That is a false statement.


----------



## Alice In TX/MO (May 10, 2002)

The item you quoted is blatantly propaganda. The choice of the phrase “rips through” is inflammatory.

I am analyzing statements for validity. You are making false predictions based on badly written media stories.


----------



## no really (Aug 7, 2013)

Nevada said:


> Just to be clear about what you're saying, you're predicting zero deaths from the delta variant?
> 
> *Deaths from the coronavirus are increasing again as the delta variant rips through unvaccinated pockets of the country, the director of the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention said Friday.*
> 
> ...


Until the southern border is closed, the catch and release is stopped for the non-vaccinated illegals, I have to question our governments interest in our well being.


----------



## Alice In TX/MO (May 10, 2002)

I am certain that our government has very little interest in our well being as individuals.


----------



## no really (Aug 7, 2013)

Alice In TX/MO said:


> I am certain that our government has very little interest in our well being as individuals.


I concur completely.


----------



## Hiro (Feb 14, 2016)

Alice In TX/MO said:


> I am certain that our government has very little interest in our well being as individuals.


I like your optimism. After the last 18 months, I am more cynical on our government's intent towards individuals.


----------



## Nevada (Sep 9, 2004)

Alice In TX/MO said:


> Your statement implies that EVERYONE who decides not to get the injection is going to die.


That's ridiculous.


----------



## Alice In TX/MO (May 10, 2002)

Sigh.
Explain why your statement isn’t a doomsday implication.

“People refuse the covid vaccine at their own peril. The delta variant is extremely dangerous, in fact a matter of life & death.”


----------



## Pony (Jan 6, 2003)

Nevada said:


> That's ridiculous.


A thinking person might wonder for whom you are shilling.

Your Chicken Little prophecies of doom, your blatant refusal to look at fact, and your worship of the injection seem to indicate either someone who is an acolyte at the altar of Big Govt, or someone who is getting kickback from a monied entity.

ETA: Over half the adult population have so far refused to participate in this "vaccination" experiment. Also, the injection is actually forcing variants. 

2 "Just as antibiotics breed resistance in bacteria, vaccines can incite changes that enable diseases to escape their control." Vaccines Are Pushing Pathogens to Evolve | Quanta Magazine

There is no simple answer, @Nevada, and the harder you push for your "miracle drug," the worse things become. 

Will you kindly stop and _think_ this through?


----------



## no really (Aug 7, 2013)

And he still ignores the elephant in the room, the non-vaccinated illegals being allowed into our country. They are being moved by our government all over the nation.


----------



## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

no really said:


> And he still ignores the elephant in the room, the non-vaccinated illegals being allowed into our country. They are being moved by our government all over the nation.


No person entering a US land border needs to be tested whether they are legal or not. It is not the elephant in the room you keep saying it is. Until everyone crossing the land borders ( including Americans) must be tested or vaccinated then it does not matter if illegals are not tested.


----------



## Alice In TX/MO (May 10, 2002)

Painterswife, I truly do not understand what you just said. Elaborate and explain why millions of potentially infected and contagious people being injected into communities isn’t a problem.


----------



## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

Alice In TX/MO said:


> Painterswife, I truly do not understand what you just said. Elaborate and explain why millions of potentially infected and contagious people being injected into communities isn’t a problem.


Unless you require every American to be vaccinated or tested or every person crossing the border by land legally then it does not matter. Covid is here, it is being brought in by air just as much by land or ship. The contagious are here and roaming amongst you and are US citizens and Permanent residents.

No one crossing the LAND border from Mexico or Canada is required to be tested or vaccinated. NO one. Not workers or Americans and not illegals.


----------



## Danaus29 (Sep 12, 2005)

Alice In TX/MO said:


> Your statement implies that EVERYONE who decides not to get the injection is going to die. Life or death. That is a false statement.





Nevada said:


> That's ridiculous.


Technically Nevada is correct. Everyone who does not get the vaccine will die. But then everyone who gets the vaccine will die also. It's just a question of if those people will die from covid, with covid, or from another cause. But again, technically.

But back to the matter at hand. Since the CDC has stopped collecting information about most breakthrough cases and fully vaccinated people are no longer being tested as rigorously as unvaccinated people, we do not have an accurate picture of the number of covid hospitalizations and deaths in fully vaccinated people.

The CDC has never really tracked the number of people who had a second or even a third round of covid. They had the ability to track that information yet chose to ignore it so they could push the vaccines.


----------



## Hiro (Feb 14, 2016)

The Texas Dims that fled is a sample size of interest. All vaccinated and a sizable percentage are testing positive. 

Though, I will put in my usual caveat that testing positive doesn't mean you are infected with the Wuflu.


----------



## Danaus29 (Sep 12, 2005)

Hiro said:


> The Texas Dims that fled is a sample size of interest. All vaccinated and a sizable percentage are testing positive.
> 
> Though, I will put in my usual caveat that testing positive doesn't mean you are infected with the Wuflu.


There is a lot of evidence that many people have false positive tests. Ohio gov DeWine was denied getting to meet with Trump because of a false positive test.


----------



## Alice In TX/MO (May 10, 2002)

The last few posts are validating my beliefs about the whole Covid fear campaign.


----------



## Nevada (Sep 9, 2004)

Alice In TX/MO said:


> The last few posts are validating my beliefs about the whole Covid fear campaign.


You believe that the whole world is in on it? Think about that for a moment. Russia, China, Iran, India, as well as every African nation are all in on the covid hoax? To what end. and what's in on it for them?


----------



## Nevada (Sep 9, 2004)

Danaus29 said:


> Technically Nevada is correct. Everyone who does not get the vaccine will die. But then everyone who gets the vaccine will die also. It's just a question of if those people will die from covid, with covid, or from another cause. But again, technically.


Are you suggesting that it doesn't matter how many die from covid?


----------



## nodak3 (Feb 5, 2003)

While the cdc is not tracking mild or asymptomatic cases of breakthrough covid, rest assured those hospitalized with covid or dying from it after the shot ARE being tracked. So we DO have that number. More disinformation.

Along with Nevada, if this thing is a hoax are you saying that folks in Africa, Peru, India, Russia, Iran, etc are ALL HOAXING US WHEN THEY "JUMP INTO MASS GRAVES OR ON FUNERAL PYRES??"

Do schools teach algebra, geometry, or debate logic anymore??


----------



## Alice In TX/MO (May 10, 2002)

The rest of the world is not in my purvue. I don't read news from there on a regular basis.

It absolutely doesn't matter how many die from Covid or any comorbidities or alcoholism or motorcycle accidents. Unless someone in your family or friends dies, then it matters to you. Otherwise, it's just a statistic.

From google searches in a hurry.
An estimated *95,000 people* (approximately 68,000 men and 27,000 women) die from alcohol-related causes annually,15 making alcohol the third-leading preventable cause of death in the United States.

Since about 2004 over 4,000 people have died every year up to 2014 in motorcycle accidents, and in 2007 and 2008 deaths exceeded 5,000 per year.

Cigarette smoking is responsible for *more than 480,000 deaths per year* in the United States, including more than 41,000 deaths resulting from secondhand smoke exposure. This is about one in five deaths annually, or 1,300 deaths every day.

OBESITY AND MORTALITY. According to the National Institutes of Health, obesity and overweight together are the second leading cause of preventable death in the United States, close behind tobacco use (3). *An estimated 300,000 deaths per year* are due to the obesity epidemic (57). 

Diabetes -

Number of deaths in 2020: 87,647
In 2019, a total *of 47,511 deaths* were attributable to suicide.


----------



## Alice In TX/MO (May 10, 2002)

Here is what I know from personal experience. My father's death certificate says self inflicted gunshot wound. It doesn't mention that he had emphysema and was experiencing depression and the onset of another round of pneumonia. He didn't want to be hospitalized again, and he chose to terminate his suffering. I was pregnant with his first grandchild. The trauma of his decisions racked me emotionally for years. Is it important to anyone else? Only family. To everyone else, his death is a skewed statistic.

My mother officially passed away from kidney failure. She was a food-holic, and suffered from Type II diabetes, was obese, and had a series of strokes, starting four months before she passed. Does anyone else care enough to campaign against compulsive eating? Nope. She's another skewed statistic.

Does it matter how many people died from the flu epidemic in 1917-1919? Nope. It's a statistic, probably not accurate, and simply a talking point now. 

Getting one's panties in a wad defending the government response to the disease we call Covid is an exercise in futility, based on incomplete, inaccurate data that was compiled by a government who cannot BY DEFINITION care about individuals. A government can't care about a peewaddling thing. People can care. Not governments.

Governments can hand out skewed information in an attempt to accomplish what has been deemed important and spend us into a financial hole.

Look at the War on Drugs, the War on Poverty, the Bureau of Veterans Affairs, the Department of Education, and etc.

I have work to do on renthouses and the garden. Ya'll have a great day.


----------



## Nevada (Sep 9, 2004)

Alice In TX/MO said:


> Painterswife, I truly do not understand what you just said.


Maybe I can clear this up for you. A few weeks ago I spent 3 days in Mexico. When returning through the port of entry I was not asked to produce either a negative covid test or a vaccine certificate.


----------



## Nevada (Sep 9, 2004)

Alice In TX/MO said:


> The rest of the world is not in my purvue. I don't read news from there on a regular basis.
> 
> It absolutely doesn't matter how many die from Covid or any comorbidities or alcoholism or motorcycle accidents. Unless someone in your family or friends dies, then it matters to you. Otherwise, it's just a statistic.
> 
> ...


And more than 600,000 Americans died on covid over the past year. That beats any of the causes you listed.

But it's not just about the numbers. If it was then the 3000 who died on 9/11 would be insignificant. But I think all of us agree that 9/11 was a big deal.


----------



## po boy (Jul 12, 2010)

Nevada said:


> Maybe I can clear this up for you. A few weeks ago I spent 3 days in Mexico. When returning through the port of entry I was not asked for either a negative covid test or a vaccine certificate.


So it's ok to add hundreds of thousands of unvaccinated people because they didn't ask u a question...
I get it:
BLM riots cannot spread Covid.
Illegals flooding the country cannot spread Covid.


----------



## Alice In TX/MO (May 10, 2002)

I am not having a pi$$ing contest with you about numbers. If that is what you thought my post was, read it again. Maybe you will understand later.


----------



## po boy (Jul 12, 2010)

Nevada said:


> And more than *600,000 Americans died on covid over the past year*. That beats any of the causes you listed.
> 
> But it's not just about the numbers. If it was then the 3000 who died on 9/11 would be insignificant. But I think all of us agree that 9/11 was a big deal.


False. 
600,000 Americans died that *may* have had Covid as an underlying condition.


----------



## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

po boy said:


> So it's ok to add hundreds of thousands of unvaccinated people because they didn't ask u a question...
> I get it:
> BLM riots cannot spread Covid.
> Illegals flooding the country cannot spread Covid.


The US does not require anyone else that crosses the land border to be tested or vaccinated. Why should illegals be treated differently?


----------



## Nevada (Sep 9, 2004)

Alice In TX/MO said:


> I am not having a pi$$ing contest with you about numbers. If that is what you thought my post was, read it again. Maybe you will understand later.


I think what you're missing here is that I promote the positive side of covid vaccination because I care about you. I don't profit from it, and I'm not trying to take away your freedom. I simply want you to be safe during this deadly pandemic.


----------



## GTX63 (Dec 13, 2016)

Nevada said:


> You believe that the whole world is in on it? Think about that for a moment. Russia, China, Iran, India, as well as every African nation are all in on the covid hoax? To what end. and what's in on it for them?


You created an answer she didn't give and thus a response that isn't applicable.


----------



## Alice In TX/MO (May 10, 2002)

Thank you, but you appear to be confused.

I absolve you of any perceived responsibility for my decisions and actions. Whatever I die from is on me.

My concerns are for the erosion of our freedom, the obvious ignorance of a huge number of people, and the political gamesmanship being employed against citizens.

I went to two concerts at my neighbor’s place last week. Here’s a video of a song he played both nights. (The opening scene of the bus was filmed less than a mile from my house.)


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## GTX63 (Dec 13, 2016)

painterswife said:


> The US does not require anyone else that crosses the land border to be tested or vaccinated. Why should illegals be treated differently?


Because they are here illegally?


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## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

GTX63 said:


> Because they are here illegally?


Why does that make any difference? People that cross the border every day with no testing. They come in on boats as well. Does every person booked into jail get tested? I doubt it. Illegal activity is not a requirement here in the US for forced testing.


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## GTX63 (Dec 13, 2016)

Nevada said:


> I think what you're missing here is that I promote the positive side of covid vaccination because I care about you. I don't profit from it, and I'm not trying to take away your freedom. I simply want you to be safe during this deadly pandemic.


You would like others to do as you believe is best for them.
Since it seems to be presented as similar to a religious pitch, would you mind if I asked you if have accepted Jesus into your life?


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## GTX63 (Dec 13, 2016)

painterswife said:


> Why does that make any difference? People that cross the border every day with no testing. They come in on boats as well. Does every person booked into jail get tested? I doubt it. Illegal activity is not a requirement here in the US for forced testing.


I dunno. Rule of law? Borders are there because?


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## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

GTX63 said:


> I dunno. Rule of law? Borders are there because?


What does breaking the law have to do with testing? Like I already said the US does not require testing if you break the law. 

It also does not require anyone crossing a land border to be tested. ( I think that is dumb myself) so whether you did it illegally or not testing is not required.

In fact, maybe we should put this logical fallacy in the thread about them.


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## Alice In TX/MO (May 10, 2002)

Yes. The logical fallacy about illegal border crossers being somehow ok to liberals.


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## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

Alice In TX/MO said:


> Yes. The logical fallacy about illegal border crossers being somehow ok to liberals.


LOL. I am liberal and not okay with illegal border crossings so you are wrong.


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## Alice In TX/MO (May 10, 2002)

Thank you for an excellent example. I made a false assumption, and you called me on it.

Rephrasing:
A logical fallacy that I find disturbing is displayed by the main liberal ( see edited version below ) in the United States that advocates admitting and coddling people who have broken the immigration laws of our nation.


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## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

So now this thread is going to be made political so it can be tossed.


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## Alice In TX/MO (May 10, 2002)

No. You misjudge. I responded to your point and very carefully phrased what I wrote.

You came back with your usual knee jerk.

Let me edit again:
A logical fallacy that I find disturbing is displayed by the main liberal social group in the United States that advocates admitting and coddling people who have broken the immigration laws of our nation.


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## GTX63 (Dec 13, 2016)

Seems about right.


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## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

Alice In TX/MO said:


> No. You misjudge. I responded to your point and very carefully phrased what I wrote.
> 
> You came back with your usual knee jerk.
> 
> ...


You posted political parties and some sweeping assertions. No need for knee jerking, you posted it.


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## Alice In TX/MO (May 10, 2002)

I posted it in response to your question. You chose what you write. You have your minions. It's ok.

You made your point. Do you feel better now?


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## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

Alice In TX/MO said:


> I posted it in response to your question. You chose what you write. You have your minions. It's ok.
> 
> You made your point. Do you feel better now?


? I don't think I said anything more than being liberal. You went to political parties all on your own.


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## Alice In TX/MO (May 10, 2002)

honey bunny, it's ok

Take a deep breath.


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## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

And now names and condescension.


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## Alice In TX/MO (May 10, 2002)

Honey Bunny is a name of endearment. Knock the chip off your shoulder. It isn't becoming. Good grief. Can't you hold a conversation?


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## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

Alice In TX/MO said:


> Honey Bunny is a name of endearment. Knock the chip off your shoulder. It isn't becoming. Good grief. Can't you hold a conversation?


You are not holding a conversation you using names in an attempt to condescend. Adults don't call people they don't know honey bunny for any other reason.


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## Alice In TX/MO (May 10, 2002)

You have NO idea about who I am, my terms of endearment, or my motivation for using said terms. Good grief. AND, what an amazing hostile judgment and logical fallacy based on your mindset instead of facts and personal knowledge of my personality.


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## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

Alice In TX/MO said:


> You have NO idea about who I am, my terms of endearment, or my motivation for using said terms. Good grief. AND, what an amazing hostile judgment and logical fallacy based on your mindset instead of facts and personal knowledge of my personality.


You have proven with your posts through the years that you don't like me. Saying that it is a term of endearment for me is laughable.


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## Pony (Jan 6, 2003)

Alice In TX/MO said:


> You have NO idea about who I am, my terms of endearment, or my motivation for using said terms. Good grief. AND, what an amazing hostile judgment and logical fallacy based on your mindset instead of facts and personal knowledge of my personality.


I'll vouch for you, @Alice In TX/MO. 

Don't worry about it, Sugar. Some people kind of melt down when faced with logic and fact.


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## GTX63 (Dec 13, 2016)

Continuing to claim personal attacks on most every thread seems a little kneejerk to me. How can one focus on the topic when they are always getting butthurt?


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## Hiro (Feb 14, 2016)

I learned many years ago that if a person is looking for something to get upset about, they can usually find it.


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## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

Not butthurt one bit. Just pointing out when personal attacks take place of real conversation.


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## GTX63 (Dec 13, 2016)

You ignore direct questions pretty well. I'll bet you can let those feelings ride off like water on a duck.


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## Alice In TX/MO (May 10, 2002)

Thread drift warning:
While pondering this thread, I came across this video. I find it amusing.


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## Redlands Okie (Nov 28, 2017)

Nevada said:


> That's extremely troubling, since there is already too much hesitancy surrounding this vaccine. It's possible for a contamination issue to derail the entire vaccine program.
> 
> The initial (Salk) polio vaccine rollout was completely derailed because a vaccine producer accidently sent out a batch of vaccine that hadn't been unattenuated. The result was that people who got the contaminated vaccine were, in fact, injected with live polio virus. In other words, some vaccine recipients were given the very same virus that they were getting vaccinated to avoid.
> 
> ...



“It should be noted that the government wasn't involved in acquiring or distributing the Salk vaccine.”

The government was not the problem then. The government giving complete and total immunity on the COVID vaccine providers is my number one concern now. Otherwise I would probably be happy to take the shot.


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## Redlands Okie (Nov 28, 2017)

painterswife said:


> No person entering a US land border needs to be tested whether they are legal or not. It is not the elephant in the room you keep saying it is. Until everyone crossing the land borders ( including Americans) must be tested or vaccinated then it does not matter if illegals are not tested.


Then testing has not been needed and is not needed anywhere in this country


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## Redlands Okie (Nov 28, 2017)

Nevada said:


> And more than 600,000 Americans died on covid over the past year. That beats any of the causes you listed.
> 
> But it's not just about the numbers. If it was then the 3000 who died on 9/11 would be insignificant. But I think all of us agree that 9/11 was a big deal.


That’s is a number that may have died with COVID symptoms. We already know the story about actual causes, additional complications, and the carefully manipulated counting.


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## Redlands Okie (Nov 28, 2017)

painterswife said:


> The US does not require anyone else that crosses the land border to be tested or vaccinated. Why should illegals be treated differently?


I agree, no test needed. Easier, faster and cheaper to send them back that way. Wishful thinking I know.


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## Redlands Okie (Nov 28, 2017)

painterswife said:


> You are not holding a conversation you using names in an attempt to condescend. Adults don't call people they don't know honey bunny for any other reason.


Wrong


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## SLFarmMI (Feb 21, 2013)

Alice In TX/MO said:


> Thread drift warning:
> While pondering this thread, I came across this video. I find it amusing.


That's quite a drift. How did you mentally get from "honey bunny" to a dancing spider? 

I found the video amusing too.


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## no really (Aug 7, 2013)

painterswife said:


> Why does that make any difference? People that cross the border every day with no testing. They come in on boats as well. Does every person booked into jail get tested? I doubt it. Illegal activity is not a requirement here in the US for forced testing.


Seems Canada has a better control over those entering.






COVID-19: Travel, testing and borders - Travel.gc.ca


COVID-19 border measures have ended as of October 1, 2022 for all travellers entering or returning to Canada by air, land or sea.




travel.gc.ca





*Getting tested to enter Canada*
*Pre-entry test requirements*
All travellers *5 years of age or older*, regardless of citizenship, must provide proof of a negative COVID-19 test result. You don't require a test to fly within Canada.

There are *no exemptions to pre-entry testing for fully vaccinated travellers*.

*If you're driving to land border crossing*, you must take a test in the United States within 72 hours of your planned entry into Canada.

*If you're flying to Canada*, you must take a test within 72 hours of the scheduled departure time of your flight to Canada. Airlines will refuse boarding to travellers who are unable to provide a valid molecular test result.


If you have a connecting flight:
the test must be conducted within 72 hours of the scheduled departure time of your last direct flight to Canada
you may need to schedule the test in your transit city

*All travellers must*:


provide one of the accepted types of tests, *not an antigen test*
keep proof of your test results for the 14-day period that begins on the day you enter Canada


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## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

Seems they do. 

I personally think everyone crossing a border should be tested or vaccinated if their health allows it. Illegal or legal but I don't see how you can enforce one if you don't enforce it for every single person.


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## GTX63 (Dec 13, 2016)

It is quite simple. If you do not belong in this country, you will be tested while we keep you in your assigned bird cage. If you don't like that, run south before the wagon catches you.


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## no really (Aug 7, 2013)

painterswife said:


> Seems they do.
> 
> I personally think everyone crossing a border should be tested or vaccinated if their health allows it. Illegal or legal but I don't see how you can enforce one if you don't enforce it for every single person.


Because they are illegal, personally I would prefer the illegals would be deported immediately.


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## GTX63 (Dec 13, 2016)

They could be stored in senior citizen centers. How inhumane could that be?


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## Clem (Apr 12, 2016)

I know one thing, I got the vaccine and exactly 20 days later I turned 70. So, clearly the vaccine causes premature aging, after all, just use common sense: I was 69 when I got the vaccine. Now, I'm 70 and there's nothing anybody anywhere can do to fix it!!!
This is actual, real scientific evidence, not just idle speculation. Facts, FACTS!!!!!


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## GTX63 (Dec 13, 2016)

Clem, one person is a small sample size, but I may create a link for your post to use in other forums. Check in from time to time should I need you for a quote.


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## Clem (Apr 12, 2016)

I have proof!! Even my birth certificate(The original one) isn't as old as I am.


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## big rockpile (Feb 24, 2003)

My Doctor said me getting the Vaccine was the worse thing I could have gotten considering I et chronic Blood Clots that it could have killed me.

big rockpile


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## rebar (Jul 8, 2015)

This is a peer reviewed reanalysis of the Pfizer and Moderna mRNA trial data.

The data shows.
A) Swine flu vaccine (1976), 1 serious event per 100,000 vaccines, 125 times less than covid mrna shot adverse drug reactions. Vaccine was withdrawn...
B) Rotavirus vaccine Rotashield, (1999),1 to 2 serious events per 10,000 vaccines, 6.25 times less than covid mrna shot adverse drug reactions. Vaccine was withdrawn.
C) Covid mRNA vaccines, 1 serious event per 800 vaccines, yet the vaccine is still officially promoted..

Free full text available https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/arti... Why We Question the Safety Profile of mRNA COVID-19 Vaccines (Robert M Kaplan and Sander Greenland) https://sensiblemed.substack.com/p/wh... Using publicly available data from Pfizer and Moderna studies, we found one serious adverse event for each 800 vaccinees. That translates to about 1,250 serious events for each million vaccine recipients. US, Spain, Australia Study to evaluate serious adverse events of special interest observed in mRNA COVID-19 vaccine trials. Secondary analysis of serious adverse events reported in the placebo-controlled, phase III randomized clinical trials, of Pfizer and Moderna mRNA COVID-19 vaccines Results Pfizer and Moderna mRNA COVID-19 vaccines were associated with an excess risk of serious adverse events of special interest Pfizer 10.1 per 10,000 vaccinated over placebo baselines of 17.6 Moderna 15.1 per 10,000 vaccinated over placebo baseline of 42.2 Combined, the mRNA vaccines Associated with an excess risk of serious adverse events of special interest of 12.5 per 10,000 vaccinated Pfizer trial Pfizer vaccine group 52 serious AESI (27.7 per 10,000) were reported Pfizer placebo group 33 serious AESI (17.6 per 10,000) were reported 36 % higher risk of serious adverse events in the vaccine group Risk difference 18.0 per 10,000 vaccinated Moderna trial Moderna trial, vaccine group 87 serious AESI (57.3 per 10,000) were reported Moderna trial, placebo group 64 serious AESI (42.2 per 10,000) were reported 6 % higher risk of serious adverse events in the vaccine group Risk difference 7.1 per 10,000 vaccinated Discussion The excess risk of serious adverse events found in our study points to the need for formal harm-benefit analyses, particularly those that are stratified according to risk of serious COVID-19 outcomes. These analyses will require public release of participant level datasets. Full transparency of the COVID-19 vaccine clinical trial data is needed, to properly evaluate these questions. Unfortunately, as we approach 2 years after release of COVID-19 vaccines, participant level data remain inaccessible. Level of adverse reactions in the past The 1976 swine flu vaccine Small increased risk of Guillain-Barré Syndrome The increased risk was approximately 1 additional case of GBS for every 100,000 people who got the swine flu vaccine. When over 40 million people were vaccinated against swine flu, federal health officials decided that the possibility of an association of GBS with the vaccine, however small, necessitated stopping immunization until the issue could be explored. The Institute of Medicine (2003) https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NB... Concluded that people who received the 1976 swine influenza vaccine had an increased risk for developing GBS. Exact reason for this association remains unknown. Rotavirus vaccine Rotashield, (1999) https://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/vpd-vac/... The U.S. Advisory Committee on Immunization Practices (ACIP) October 22, 1999 to no longer recommend use of the RotaShield vaccine for infants, because of an association between the vaccine and intussusception. The results of the investigations showed that RotaShield vaccine caused intussusception in some healthy infants Within 2 weeks Intussusception increased 20 to 30 times over the expected risk (Less after the second and third dose) CDC estimated that one or two additional cases of intussusception would be caused among each 10,000 infants vaccinated with RotaShield vaccine.


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## rebar (Jul 8, 2015)

NWO, VACCINI: Robert Malone, Global Covid Summit, Effetti Avversi


Dr. Robert MALONE al Global Covid Summit: "Le iniezioni sperimentali di terapia genica per il Covid 19 devono terminare. Indagare sulle morti e sui danni causati a milioni di persone che hanno ricevut




rumble.com


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## Danaus29 (Sep 12, 2005)

rebar said:


> NWO, VACCINI: Robert Malone, Global Covid Summit, Effetti Avversi
> 
> 
> Dr. Robert MALONE al Global Covid Summit: "Le iniezioni sperimentali di terapia genica per il Covid 19 devono terminare. Indagare sulle morti e sui danni causati a milioni di persone che hanno ricevut
> ...


Is there an English version?


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## rebar (Jul 8, 2015)

Danaus29 said:


> Is there an English version?


It is in english


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## Danaus29 (Sep 12, 2005)

rebar said:


> It is in english


I see now. It's a video, not an article.


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## Ruralman (2 mo ago)

Nevada said:


> I received the first covid vaccination shot today (Monday, 01/25/2021). I got the Pfizer vaccine. Second dose is scheduled for Monday, 02/15/2021. Shots were sponsored by the Southern Nevada Health District, were given by the NV National Guard, and local fire department paramedics were present in the event of a serious adverse reaction.
> 
> They had us wait 15 minutes before checkout, to monitor for adverse reactions. I didn't observe anyone having a reaction while I was there. It went pretty quickly. I was only in the building for about 45 minutes.
> 
> ...





Nevada said:


> I received the first covid vaccination shot today (Monday, 01/25/2021). I got the Pfizer vaccine. Second dose is scheduled for Monday, 02/15/2021. Shots were sponsored by the Southern Nevada Health District, were given by the NV National Guard, and local fire department paramedics were present in the event of a serious adverse reaction.
> 
> They had us wait 15 minutes before checkout, to monitor for adverse reactions. I didn't observe anyone having a reaction while I was there. It went pretty quickly. I was only in the building for about 45 minutes.
> 
> ...


I forgot to take mine into walmart for a shot and they told me that they needed it for their records.


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