# Nearly dead lamb revived, but still not great. Advice?



## malinda (May 12, 2002)

We got home late last night after Easter dinner with family, only to find the smallest of the 5 day old triplet ewes cold, convulsing, and all but dead. Brought her in, warmed her up and tubed her. My SO spent most of the night with her, and she has improved - now able to stand and walk, baa-ing a little, but still not taking to the bottle, though she really fights me when I tube her.

She was given BoSe the day she was born, and we gave her another dose (.5ml) this morning. She is about 5lbs currently.

We had been supplementing her and one of the other triplets, only because they are triplets, their mother seemed to be producing alot of milk (she's an 8yo ewe). Even when we supplemented two of the triplets they only drank about 1-3 ounces 3x a day. The smallest ewe was the most enthusiastic on the bottle. My SO thought all three lambs were getting enough milk from their mother, so they weren't fed by us on day 4 and 5, and obviously this small lamb wasn't getting what she should have.

Is there anything else we should do for this lamb? How much can a person tube a lamb (like, does their esophogus get irritated/inflamed)? Would it be better to tube her less often and give her more at a time? I gave her 100cc 3x during the night.

Thanks in advance for any advice.


----------



## Fowler (Jul 8, 2008)

Can you get her to suck from her mom? That would be best.


----------



## malinda (May 12, 2002)

Fowler said:


> Can you get her to suck from her mom? That would be best.


Tried during the night without sucess. Will try again throughout today. She doesn't seem to have the desire to nurse either the bottle or her mother, but still is strong enough to really protest the tubing.


----------



## Fowler (Jul 8, 2008)

malinda said:


> Tried during the night without sucess. Will try again throughout today. She doesn't seem to have the desire to nurse either the bottle or her mother, but still is strong enough to really protest the tubing.


Please dont be offended, but are you using a small nipple for her to suckle?
Usually if I can get the milk in their mouth and they taste it, they latch on.

I know your not stupid, I've have never had to tube, ~knock on wood~ so your a step ahead of me. I do everything in my power to get them to suck before I have to do the tube deed..


----------



## malinda (May 12, 2002)

I'm using the red Pritchard nipples. I can force it in her mouth with milk dribbling out and she is either trying to spit it out, or just sits there and does nothing. Of course will keep trying throughout today too. I'd much rather bottle feed than tube her!

Just tried her back on her mother - no go. The lamb stood around and sniffed the udder, but nothing more. I kept the other lambs at bay and did get some milk out of the ewe when I tried.


----------



## plowjockey (Aug 18, 2008)

I have one of these resting on the kitchen floor. Can't stand but will set comfortably one minute and go into convulsion the next. Digestive functions still work.

No advice, but keep trying to feed, even with the tube.

They will either get better, or get worse. 

Good luck


----------



## littlebitfarm (Mar 21, 2005)

malinda said:


> I'm using the red Pritchard nipples. I can force it in her mouth with milk dribbling out and she is either trying to spit it out, or just sits there and does nothing.


I have had the best luck with just the regular cheap human baby bottle nipples. Just put a bit bigger hole in there so they can suck easy. 

100cc isn't much. By 5 days old my Katahdin lambs would be getting about 8 ounces 3 times a day. I used to do the middle of the night feedings but have discovered that healthy lambs do just fine without and I get sleep!

Kathie


----------



## bergere (May 11, 2002)

Have you taken her temp? Are her joints swollen at all?

With the convulsing... here are some possible issues the lamb might have..

Lambs as young as 2 weeks can get enterotoxemia. Have they had their CD&T shot yet?

Other possibles is Polio and or Staggers due to ryegrass toxicity but the later is not likely since they are not eating grass. Though in very rare cases the ewe can pass it along in her milk.

I can only guess since I have not seen the lamb, if you can, would recommend you getting a vet out.

Good luck!


----------



## malinda (May 12, 2002)

She isn't convulsing anymore - that was just last night when we found her. Her temp was low then (98), we warmed her and got her temp up to normal. My SO stayed up with her most of the night, and slept with her in the bathroom (with heater and heated floors). Her temp is fine now and she seems to be able to regulate her own body temp ok again.

I gave her 100ccs per feeding, so she had 300ccs(total) in 8 hours. I just tried to get her to nurse on the bottle again, but she barely swallows what milk gets in her mouth. I'll see if I have a human baby nipple around - never had a human baby myself, but I think I bought a bottle years ago for another critter.

She stands and looks around, kind of like shell shocked. She walks a little bit but not much. Since I didn't get her to take the bottle and she still won't nurse her mother, I'm going to tube her again in an hour and give her more in this feeding than I had been. I just think her esophogus must be really sore, thus she isn't keen on nursing.

I had read that lambs should get their CD&T shots no earlier than 4 weeks? We have it on hand, just didn't give it to these young lambs yet.


----------



## Ross (May 9, 2002)

Whats her temp now? If its low she may be consitpated and need an enema. Otherwise shock is likely your problem. A vitamin AD shot (say 1cc) and a B complex shot 2x daily again 1cc would probably go far to improving her state of mind. Tubing can irritate the whole system be sure to pinch off the tube and remove slowly so you don't drag up milk or goo into her lungs. If she has a higher temp I'd treat with PenG (and the vitamins) because it likely picked up some bug being so cold and hungry. Tubing even if it irritates is still better than starving.


----------



## Ross (May 9, 2002)

Your feeding amounts are a bit light as previously posted, but good to get her started.


----------



## malinda (May 12, 2002)

Her temp is 102.5, but her lips are cold. I bumped up the amount of milk I tubed into her and she spit up quite a bit of it and aspirated some. She was getting weaker again before I tubed her this last time, and is now weaker still. I gave a shot of Vit B, but don't have any AD on hand.

Thanks everyone for the advice.


----------



## Ross (May 9, 2002)

B is one of those vitamins that burn off quickly, you can repeat it often. If she's passing stool and breathing OK its a deficency of something if her breathing is a bit rapid she may have pnuemonia even if her temp is normal.


----------



## bergere (May 11, 2002)

For the CD&T, it depends on the brand and what area of the country one lives. At least from what I have been told by various Vets.
When I lived in Port Orchard, I helped a Vet there, mostly with lambing season because she didn't have enough help to go around.
There was one farm that the lambs kept getting pulpy kidney, so the Vet started CD&T when they were two weeks old and the death's stopped.
Found out later the ewes were not vaccinated at all. 
Anyway, I would just go by what your Vet says to do.

As Ross said, can be many reason's she is having trouble and it is wonderful you are trying to help her out. ;O)


----------



## birchtreefarm (Jul 22, 2007)

Lambs need about 15-20% of their body weight in milk replacer per day. Convert her weight to oz, multiply by 0.2 and that's the amount daily. Then divide that by the number of feedings. Lawson suggests for days 4-7 every four hours, days 8-21 every 6 hours but you can feed her more often since she's weak - just divide the daily amount up into more feedings. Too much at one time can be as bad as not enough.

If she won't suck, you have to tube. If you are using a soft rubber catheter it shouldn't irritate her esophagus. Wet with water or milk replacer. Don't plunge - just let the replacer flow by gravity. Put your thumb over the end of the catheter and remove in one smooth motion to prevent dribbling any leftovers down the wrong pipe.

If she's not even trying to suckle the teat is probably not the problem. The Pritchard teat is a good one for small lambs as it's very soft. If she was convulsing, she might have some damage to her brain that caused her to "forget" how to suckle. If you can keep her going, that might come back. Keep offering the bottle each time before you tube.

If you can get some Baby Lamb Strength it wouldn't hurt to give her some of that. 

What is her poop like? and is she peeing regularly?


----------



## malinda (May 12, 2002)

bergere said:


> For the CD&T, it depends on the brand and what area of the country one lives. At least from what I have been told by various Vets.
> When I lived in Port Orchard, I helped a Vet there, mostly with lambing season because she didn't have enough help to go around.
> There was one farm that the lambs kept getting pulpy kidney, so the Vet started CD&T when they were two weeks old and the death's stopped.
> Found out later the ewes were not vaccinated at all.
> ...



None of our lambs are even two weeks old yet. The oldest are just over a week and this lamb was only 6 days old. Our ewes have been vaccinated for CD&T.


----------



## malinda (May 12, 2002)

Well, sad to report the little ewe didn't make it.

I tubed her with a larger amount of milk and it was just way too much. She aspirated it and died within a few hours.

Thanks for the info Birchtreefarm. According to the 15-20% rule, she should only have been getting only 60-80ccs at each feeding. I thought I was underfeeding her so I gave her more and it was too much. She still fought me while inserting the tube so much that I hated doing it. I was pinching off the tube when pulling it out, and not plungering it in at all.

She had been peeing regularly, but only pooped once during the night and again in the morning. We tried giving her an enema several hours later, but nothing.

She was looking so much better yesterday morning, but I still never was able to get her to nurse her mother or take a bottle like she had been a few days ago. 

I'm really bummed, but have learned something and will hopefully have a better outcome in the future.

The good thing is that the remaining two of the triplets are fat and sassy, and all of our other lambs are doing well. We have two more ewes to lamb, but they look like they're a couple weeks out yet.


----------



## Olivia67 (Mar 6, 2008)

A little over a week ago, we found a three day old lamb that had gotten away from his mom and one of our new LGD's (the youngest one-8 months old) had licked him and then chewed off his scrotum, leaving his jewels just out there. He was in shock when I brought him in, luckily we are having unseasonably warm weather so the cold wasn't an issue on top of everything else. 

We treat shock with sub q fluids, LRS is only about $5 from the vet and it supplies glucose and saline directly in the body without having to go through the digestive system first, vit b injectable, and we wrapped him in towels and held him until it appeared that he was coming out of it. We never let them have anything in their digestive system until they are out of shock, when we rehabbed we took some classes and found that the digestive system does some pretty strange things when you are in shock and it is componded when the animal is a ruminent. Only when he could stand again, and well after I finished the cateration job and cleaned him up, did we offer him a bottle. By all means, tube feeding is necessary when the lamb cannot or won't suckle, if you can do it, then do it. It is scary but only the first couple of times you do it. It's a good sign that she is fighting you, she has some spunk to her. Before we took the lamb back to his momma we gave him Pennicilin and our vet sold us some Exceed or something like that to give him also and he pulled out of it-much to our surprise. I fully expected him to die and the next morning he had a raging fever but he did survive and is doing really well now. I also added probiotics too, which really jump starts the digestive system and I think that made a big difference in his recovery too. Again, it's pretty cheap at F&F and one tube lasts us a long time. It sounds like you're doing pretty well with her, I just wanted to add my 2 cents of what has worked for us as well. If I were you at this point, is if she pulls out of this, just bottle her and keep her inside, I don't think she can take much more and fighting for the two teats with her siblings might be too much for her. As long as she had colostrum, then just keep her on the bottle inside. It would be such a shame for you to do all this extra work and then lose her to something silly outside.


----------



## Olivia67 (Mar 6, 2008)

I just read your post that she didn't make it, I'm so sorry! You did so much though, more than a lot of other shepherds would have and yes, we do learn from the ones we can't save. Again, I'm so sorry.


----------



## Fowler (Jul 8, 2008)

Sorry for your loss, you did everything you could.


----------



## bknthesdle (Mar 27, 2011)

I am so sorry for your loss!


----------



## bergere (May 11, 2002)

No problems, had no idea how old and such, just trying to throw things out there that might of helped.

I am very sorry for your loss Melinda. Some times, no matter we do, they don't make it.

And it is great the rest of your lambs are doing well!


----------



## birchtreefarm (Jul 22, 2007)

Sorry you lost her. Sounds like you were fighting an uphill battle. But I'm glad to hear everyone else is doing well!


----------

