# First experience with Obamacare....



## ginnie5 (Jul 15, 2003)

and it bites. DD has migraines....really bad ones that just put her in a ball crying and holding her head. She finally went this past year and got a prescription for them. She tried to fill before the end of the year but the pharmacy was out of it. Yesterday she went to get it............over $800!!!!:sob: Needless to say she left without it. We're trying to see if we can order it with home delivery thru the insurance any cheaper. If not then we need to look into an overseas pharmacy. This medicine lets her function and now it is priced out of her range!


----------



## 7thswan (Nov 18, 2008)

They have generic Imatrex now. I am on Cymbalta(very expensive) for back pain and to prevent migraines,it works. But before that I was on a inexpensive anti-depressant for just the migraines,it worked. Call your DR. and get a diffrent script. Tell them you'd like to try the most inexpensive first, and work from there.


----------



## suzyhomemaker09 (Sep 24, 2004)

I'm curious to know how the price of medication relates to Obamacare?
Pharmaceutical companies are the ones that set prices....not your doctor...not your insurance company.


----------



## PrettyPaisley (May 18, 2007)

I went to the asthma doctor yesterday since 2/10 as our family insurance through work started 1/1. Same doctor I have had since 2001 - but they needed my driver's license to see me and I was a bit unsettled to see my picture pop up on the computer screen when the nurse was taking my blood pressure. I'm about 300% they didn't have computer screens in exam rooms in the past.


----------



## Rainy (Jan 21, 2010)

Would it be possible to call her Doctor and even just get her some samples of her meds till she can afford it...? i have had to do this before...Also maybe even write the company sometimes they will cut the cost for the patient.. I am sorry your daughter is going through this,will be thinking of her


----------



## PrairieBelle22 (Nov 17, 2006)

Insurance rates began responding to the added costs of Obamacare before it was even passed into law. Prior to Obamacare my insurance company had enacted rate increases ranging from .48% to 3.47%. The year the feds were working on getting the law passed (2010) my insurance company announced a rate increase of 9.35% for 2011. When questioned about the dramatic increase, they stated that they were anticipating that the law would pass and the regulations within the law added such expenses that the premiums had to be increased. 

But wait! There's more: In 2012 I paid 9.42% more than I did in 2011. In 2013, I will be paying 8.1% more than I did in 2012! I am paying 29.3% more in 2013 for my health insurance than I did the year before Obamacare. That is $355.54 per month MORE, $4266.48 annually MORE because of it.

Have I seen an increase in benefits that match this increase in premiums? :hysterical: My office visit co-pays have increased 25%, my prescription co-pays have increased 50% (from $50 to $75) 

The numbers speak for themselves...$$$ right out of my pocket. $355 is enough for a new car payment, $4266 is enough for a vacation to the grand canyon... Imagine the preps I could buy for $4266. :bash:

Belle


----------



## PrairieBelle22 (Nov 17, 2006)

Wind in Her Hair said:


> I work in the healthcare industry and we have been warned to brace ourselves for supply price increases and a reduction in tax breaks for equipment, medical device tax, etc. Those rising costs WILL be transferred to you - us- me- the consumer.
> 
> Hospitals are laying off personnel - cutbacks in hours and benefits - it affects us all.
> 
> ...


If I could get healthy enough I would switch to one of those religions that don't believe in getting medical treatment. Just kidding  Is that one of them "oxymoron" statements?

B


----------



## Cornhusker (Mar 20, 2003)

Obamacare is laughingly named "Affordable Healthcare Act"
It was never about affordable health care, it's about controlling every aspect of our lives.


----------



## PrairieBelle22 (Nov 17, 2006)

Cornhusker said:


> Obamacare is laughingly named "Affordable Healthcare Act"
> It was never about affordable health care, it's about controlling every aspect of our lives.



Exactly!!!


----------



## suzyhomemaker09 (Sep 24, 2004)

PrettyPaisley said:


> I went to the asthma doctor yesterday since 2/10 as our family insurance through work started 1/1. Same doctor I have had since 2001 - but they needed my driver's license to see me and I was a bit unsettled to see my picture pop up on the computer screen when the nurse was taking my blood pressure. I'm about 300% they didn't have computer screens in exam rooms in the past.


Ok....this demonstrates an offices switch to EMR..( electronic medical records )
Which is a good thing for most medical facilities...all records being digitized and stored electronically. Say for instance your physician did not do EMR...the office burns to the ground...all of your medical history is gone. Say for instance you are going to move to another city...or state...when you choose a new physician all you have to do is sign paperwork for them to electronically transmit your medical history to the new office.
Pictures help staff be sure they are treating the proper patient...perhaps they may have a temp in the office who didn't know you....also adds security to the EMR information.
:soap:
ok..I'll get off my soapbox now


----------



## TheMartianChick (May 26, 2009)

PrettyPaisley said:


> I went to the asthma doctor yesterday since 2/10 as our family insurance through work started 1/1. Same doctor I have had since 2001 - but they needed my driver's license to see me and I was a bit unsettled to see my picture pop up on the computer screen when the nurse was taking my blood pressure. I'm about 300% they didn't have computer screens in exam rooms in the past.


 
My doctor's office has had laptops in every examination room for several years. They are able to make all of their notes legibly and fill out prescriptions immediately. It is especially helpful when a note is needed for work.

When I finally went to the doctor to get an official diagnosis for chilblains, the computer came in handy. The doctor was new and appeared to be Doogie Howser's little sister. I showed her my hands and feet without telling her what I suspected. When she couldn't figure it out, I told her that they might be chilblains. She googled up an image anddeclared me to be right. I was awfully glad when she excused herself and brought my regular doctor in to confirm. 

It turned out that most of the staff had never seen them before and I was a live medical specimen for them to gawk at for about 10 minutes as they filed through in twos and threes.


----------



## KnowOneSpecial (Sep 12, 2010)

PrettyPaisley said:


> I went to the asthma doctor yesterday since 2/10 as our family insurance through work started 1/1. Same doctor I have had since 2001 - but they needed my driver's license to see me and I was a bit unsettled to see my picture pop up on the computer screen when the nurse was taking my blood pressure. I'm about 300% they didn't have computer screens in exam rooms in the past.


That's a safeguard on their part. It helps them make sure they're dealing with the right person. 

I've heard in the not so far past that Woman A would give her insurance card and a bogus drivers liscense to Woman B. Woman B was preggers and would tell the hospital that she was Woman A. The baby would come out of the hospital with Woman A's name-no pricey adoption needed and the birth is paid for by the insurance company.


----------



## Annsni (Oct 27, 2006)

What medication is it? I take Relpax which is expensive and I searched for an online coupon and it turns out they have a $10 co-pay card which gives you up to $100 for the medication. My insurance will only allow me 4 a month and that works out to be $117 for the month but with the $100 taken off, it's just $17 a month! I don't use all 4 a month (usually) so I just mark my calendar for when I can order more and I've been building up a bit of a stash. I also have Imitrex on hand as well but that doesn't work as well even though it's a much less expensive medication.


----------



## KnowOneSpecial (Sep 12, 2010)

Wind in Her Hair said:


> I work in the healthcare industry and we have been warned to brace ourselves for supply price increases and a reduction in tax breaks for equipment, medical device tax, etc. Those rising costs WILL be transferred to you - us- me- the consumer.
> 
> Hospitals are laying off personnel - cutbacks in hours and benefits - it affects us all.
> 
> ...


BUT...layoffs have been coming for a long time before Obamacare. It's not like Obam just decided one day to do this. There was a good reason to get this ball in motion. 

There are multiple factors of causation at work here. First of all, medical bankruptcies are sky high. If you aren't independently wealthy and get cancer you run a real risk of losing everything-even if you have insurance. (My Bestie who had cancer all of a sudden had to pay $600-$1,000 a month just for co-pays. When you're seeing your cancer doc once a week and it's a $50 co pay and then it's $50 to get chemo and another $25 for the weekly blood draws, not to mention the surgeries, ER visits due to infections, etc. It adds up.) Secondly, hospitals have been forced to give medical care to everyone no matter if they can pay or not. Not too many industries can do that and stay in business. Can you imagine what would happen if they demanded the gas station to do that? Thirdly, salaries are astronomical. Yes they have schooling and all of that, but someone in say the educational field who has that much education will not get half of what most doctors expect to get.


----------



## belladulcinea (Jun 21, 2006)

You cannot compare doctors to teachers. At all. Good grief. 

I agree with some of the other posters, go online to the company's website, they will probably have a card to get the med for 10.00. Which boggles my mind since if they do that why don't they just do it up front.


----------



## Halfway (Nov 22, 2010)

Not only have we created a federal stranglehold over 1/6 of our economy, but it was promoted by many who thought "good intentions" are in and of itself righteous.

Oh we are in for some pain in the good 'ol US of A!


----------



## where I want to (Oct 28, 2008)

suzyhomemaker09 said:


> Ok....this demonstrates an offices switch to EMR..( electronic medical records )
> Which is a good thing for most medical facilities...all records being digitized and stored electronically. Say for instance your physician did not do EMR...the office burns to the ground...all of your medical history is gone. Say for instance you are going to move to another city...or state...when you choose a new physician all you have to do is sign paperwork for them to electronically transmit your medical history to the new office.
> Pictures help staff be sure they are treating the proper patient...perhaps they may have a temp in the office who didn't know you....also adds security to the EMR information.
> :soap:
> ok..I'll get off my soapbox now



I have a fair amount of experience with EMR too- much of it a pain. Lets see- first your doctor comes in to you little exam room and starts going through the records. He said "Your last blood test was last year." You say "No you all sent me for some 2 months ago." He pages threough some more " I don't see it. I'll have to ge check where it went." He comes back "I can't find where it went. I check it out later. " And later never comes.
Or you have a life threatening diagnosis for two years. Suddenly, the NP you are seeing for a gynecological exam says "That doesn't seem right." And with a couple of key strokes, eliminates that diagnosis from your records. 
And heaven help you if some misinformation get entered- unlike the correct info which can be deleted with a key stroke, misinformation never seems to go away. People will be trying to eliminate it with every visit.
Like everything else, EMR have their problems. I try to keep a hard copy of my own, which more than one doctor has said thank goodness when I can pull it out and find what they want to see- like that pneumonia vaccination you had 4 years ago that never shows up on the computer.

The worse thing is the black hole that anything done prior to the EMR conversion falls.


----------



## thesedays (Feb 25, 2011)

KnowOneSpecial said:


> Secondly, hospitals have been forced to give medical care to everyone no matter if they can pay or not


A lot of this is all the uninsured meth lab people who blew themselves up. There are burn units that have had to close because the entire hospital was in danger of bankruptcy just because of this, and some medical ethicists even believe that people who do this should receive no treatment other than comfort care.  I recently saw a show on NatGeo where they said that Vanderbile University Hospital gave $300 MILLION in charity care every year just for people like this.


----------



## Annsni (Oct 27, 2006)

belladulcinea said:


> You cannot compare doctors to teachers. At all. Good grief.


I agree. I don't think the 4 years of education that my daughter got to be a teacher (she still needs her masters though) is equal to the 10+ years that same daughter's surgeon received in medical school. My daughter's surgeon was there at the hospital the entire time she was in - which was 5 days the first time and 17 days the second time. Every day he was there to see her - never missed a day whether it was Sunday or a holiday. I could reach him any time of day or night and he was ready to do her surgery whenever she needed it which fortunately turned out to be mid-day.



> I agree with some of the other posters, go online to the company's website, they will probably have a card to get the med for 10.00. Which boggles my mind since if they do that why don't they just do it up front.


It's like why do companies give coupons? It's an incentive but many people buy without it so they make a bit more money.


----------



## thesedays (Feb 25, 2011)

KnowOneSpecial said:


> BUT...layoffs have been coming for a long time before Obamacare.


I lost my job in 2010 for this reason, and found out later that the hospital looking for people at the top of the pay scale at low risk for suing, and finding an excuse to can them. I know now that they did me a bigger favor than I could ever have imagined at the time, even though I am now basically unemployable. I'm grateful for the 7 years that I did have that 6-figure job, because it enabled me to retire early.

:buds:

However, my BFF was canned from Walgreens last month after almost 15 years. :stars: He saw the writing on the wall months ahead of time and started job-hunting, and began his new job yesterday. The new employer is not the best company to work for, and I strongly suspect that he has no idea what hit him, but for him, retirement at 50-something isn't an option because he has 3 kids at home.

The hospital systems in my area are doing this to long-term employees as well, and some of the people to whom they have done this have been quite shocking. 

I never blamed Obamacare for this, BTW. This was in Illinois, which has always been notorious for extremely bad Medicaid rates, and serious delays in paying, often a year or more. Some hospitals, pharmacies, and nursing homes have had to close because of this, or just not taken Medicaid patients for this reason. Here's an example: In 2011, I found out that Illinois Medicaid pays optometrists NINE DOLLARS for an eye exam. Medicare pays $55, and they barely break even on that.


----------



## suzyhomemaker09 (Sep 24, 2004)

where I want to said:


> I have a fair amount of experience with EMR too- much of it a pain. Lets see- first your doctor comes in to you little exam room and starts going through the records. He said "Your last blood test was last year." You say "No you all sent me for some 2 months ago." He pages threough some more " I don't see it. I'll have to ge check where it went." He comes back "I can't find where it went. I check it out later. " And later never comes.
> Or you have a life threatening diagnosis for two years. Suddenly, the NP you are seeing for a gynecological exam says "That doesn't seem right." And with a couple of key strokes, eliminates that diagnosis from your records.
> And heaven help you if some misinformation get entered- unlike the correct info which can be deleted with a key stroke, misinformation never seems to go away. People will be trying to eliminate it with every visit.
> Like everything else, EMR have their problems. I try to keep a hard copy of my own, which more than one doctor has said thank goodness when I can pull it out and find what they want to see- like that pneumonia vaccination you had 4 years ago that never shows up on the computer.
> ...


I'd say that your issue was more a Doctor at fault for being unfamiliar with the EMR protocols than an issue with EMR itself.
There are daily back-ups done in and office of standard practice...heck I worked in a hardware store that backed up all of it's daily data. Data is or should be entered for each visit...computers add it to the pool of info about you..it'd be rather difficult to have misinformation entered...if that is the case at your physicians office...I'd say time to shop for a new doctor.


----------



## TxGypsy (Nov 23, 2006)

Not that it is a high hope, but I hope experiences like these will make people really think about their health care and seek out more effective Naturopathic treatments. There is a lot that people can do to improve their health by eating better, drinking enough water, lowering their stress levels, etc.

I am beyond grateful that I no longer see MD's.


----------



## City Bound (Jan 24, 2009)

I am scratching my head to understand why O'Care is the reason your DD Script went up in price. What makes you think that?

Pharm companies are ruthless business people who have always charged as much as they can get for the goods they peddle.


----------



## TNHermit (Jul 14, 2005)

Everyone has there opion of what is going on. My only advice to would be to SCOUR the net for natural remedies. Lots of herbs and oils out there. Maybe massage of some kind. They may or may not work but I have had good luck with some.


----------



## haley1 (Aug 15, 2012)

ginnie5 said:


> and it bites. DD has migraines....really bad ones that just put her in a ball crying and holding her head. She finally went this past year and got a prescription for them. She tried to fill before the end of the year but the pharmacy was out of it. Yesterday she went to get it............over $800!!!!:sob: Needless to say she left without it. We're trying to see if we can order it with home delivery thru the insurance any cheaper. If not then we need to look into an overseas pharmacy. This medicine lets her function and now it is priced out of her range!


try her on a different diet, try all raw veggies and friut and or juicing for 1 month. see if that helps....... cheaper ans safer then drugs


----------



## City Bound (Jan 24, 2009)

This is not medical advice, but I had an x gf who suffered from migrains and she drank a lot of diet pepsi that is sweetened with artificial sweeteners. We changed her diet to cut out the diet soda and replaced it with water and her troubles went away.


----------



## City Bound (Jan 24, 2009)

Wind in Her Hair said:


> well...aren't MOST companies that are selling goods and services doing the same thing? Charging what the market will bear? is it only "ruthless" because its medication?


I consider it ruthless because it is medication. To help to cure sick or dieing people and then to try to make a gross profit from it is immoral.


----------



## Ann-NWIowa (Sep 28, 2002)

Our experience with the electronic medical records has been bad. Computer down -- no records available -- and anyone who has ever used a computer know they are often down.

I think O-care is just beginning to impact medical care and costs. Its going to be a bumpy ride. The idiots who passed it without reading it should be required to use the same health care that us lessor citizens do and that includes O and his family. O is always on about the rich paying their share, but he and his wife have cost us mega dollars with separate travel for a multitude of vacations. When the country is in such deep financial trouble it is inconceivable to me that the first family is so irresponsible with their spending of our dollars. 

I budget $600 a month for medical (that does not include Medicare premiums). Here it is Jan. 3 and I've already written checks for medical for over $1300.00. That's before dh buys medication which he has to pay for until he meets his $350 deductible sometime in February or $2,500 for dentures later this month which is 100% our responsibility. I need a tooth repaired which is estimated to cost $1,200 and another that I will likely have pulled to avoid $1,200 for it.


----------



## KnowOneSpecial (Sep 12, 2010)

belladulcinea said:


> You cannot compare doctors to teachers. At all. Good grief.


I wasn't comparing a four year teachers degree with a doctor. I was examinine a Doctor of Education with an MD. BIG difference. My brother has studied for years while teaching school to get his Doctorate. He really wants to be a Superintendent of Schools. IF he can get a job in administration he MIGHT break $100,000. That's for the same amount of collegiate hours and way more if you count his teaching hours (He's been teaching for 17 years.) 

Comparing same amount of education hours here folks.


----------



## WV Farm girl (Nov 26, 2011)

I have a lady that works for my facility who is very ill. She has been told in the past that she may need a kidney removed and I suspect other "female" issues too. She had been eligible for state run "health care". Went yesterday and was told that she now makes too much $ to be eligible. She makes $8 an hour! 
This lady is sick but now cannot receive any health benefits and was told to find her own doctor. Insurance here is over $160 a month plus a deductible and she can't afford it. So how is Obamacare helping her? Its kicking a liability out of the system I think.


----------



## Annsni (Oct 27, 2006)

KnowOneSpecial said:


> I wasn't comparing a four year teachers degree with a doctor. I was examinine a Doctor of Education with an MD. BIG difference. My brother has studied for years while teaching school to get his Doctorate. He really wants to be a Superintendent of Schools. IF he can get a job in administration he MIGHT break $100,000. That's for the same amount of collegiate hours and way more if you count his teaching hours (He's been teaching for 17 years.)
> 
> Comparing same amount of education hours here folks.


Our superintendent makes over $350,000.


----------



## thesedays (Feb 25, 2011)

WV Farm girl said:


> I have a lady that works for my facility who is very ill. She has been told in the past that she may need a kidney removed and I suspect other "female" issues too. She had been eligible for state run "health care". Went yesterday and was told that she now makes too much $ to be eligible. She makes $8 an hour!
> This lady is sick but now cannot receive any health benefits and was told to find her own doctor. Insurance here is over $160 a month plus a deductible and she can't afford it. So how is Obamacare helping her? Its kicking a liability out of the system I think.


It's not 2014 yet.

I do get really mad when I hear about things like this. Is it possible that she owns too much property to qualify for straight Medicaid? ETA: This has been a big obstacle for senior citizens or younger people on disability who own their homes outright, but are income-eligible for Medicaid and other forms of assistance. Some states offer a spend-down, which is a monthly deductible before Medicaid kicks in. I've heard of them as low as $14 (AIDS patient on disability), and as high as $3,000 (child with cancer who got most of her care from the St. Jude facility).


----------



## shelljo (Feb 1, 2005)

suzyhomemaker09 said:


> Ok....this demonstrates an offices switch to EMR..( electronic medical records )
> Which is a good thing for most medical facilities...all records being digitized and stored electronically. Say for instance your physician did not do EMR...the office burns to the ground...all of your medical history is gone. Say for instance you are going to move to another city...or state...when you choose a new physician all you have to do is sign paperwork for them to electronically transmit your medical history to the new office.
> Pictures help staff be sure they are treating the proper patient...perhaps they may have a temp in the office who didn't know you....also adds security to the EMR information.
> :soap:
> ok..I'll get off my soapbox now


I wonder how the illegal immigrants will get around this--I know of many who share ID's and insurance cards. What will happen when the picture doesn't match the person sitting in front of you?


----------



## katydidagain (Jun 11, 2004)

I used to have migraines--the toss your cookies and sit on the throne type. I discovered that chewing a couple of leaves of feverfew (could not swallow pills because they came back up) got rid of my symptoms and pain. I did not use it to prevent like a beta blocker--just when I felt one coming on.


----------



## ginnie5 (Jul 15, 2003)

City Bound said:


> I am scratching my head to understand why O'Care is the reason your DD Script went up in price. What makes you think that?
> 
> Pharm companies are ruthless business people who have always charged as much as they can get for the goods they peddle.


because our insurance (or maybe I should leave it unsurance like I typed at first) has changed because of obamacare. Rates went up, deductibles skyrocketed, and the prescription plan is basically useless. Even the FSA has changed because of the changes the company had to make to cover all the new laws.


----------



## City Bound (Jan 24, 2009)

Wind in Her Hair said:


> ok - I get it. But if its gasoline or electricity - its okay- but not medicine.


 
Well, with gasoline and electric there are alternatives and you can live without them if need be, but with medicines and medical care there are very few alternatives and many people can literally not live without them. The medical field has most people over a barrel when it comes to receiving the vital care they need. 

Going to the hospital to get a life saving surgery is not commercially the same as going into 7-11 for a bag of potato chips and a few gallons of gas. Traditionally healers were well respected servants of the community. I think there are two types of people who create medicines and who look for cures to disease, one person is the person who does so to serve his fellow man and the other does so to serve his or her personal gain. The person who heals to serve his fellow man has the right intent and spirit while the person who serves his own personal gain is harmful to humanity.

Anyway, just my two cents.


----------



## mmoetc (Oct 9, 2012)

Now I know why my health insurance almost doubled in cost from 2002 to 2010. Obamacare.


----------



## Annsni (Oct 27, 2006)

mmoetc said:


> Now I know why my health insurance almost doubled in cost from 2002 to 2010. Obamacare.


Almost doubled in 8 years? You did well. At our company, costs go up from 20-40% every year.


----------



## TxGypsy (Nov 23, 2006)

Ann-NWIowa said:


> That's before dh buys medication which he has to pay for until he meets his $350 deductible sometime in February or $2,500 for dentures later this month which is 100% our responsibility. I need a tooth repaired which is estimated to cost $1,200 and another that I will likely have pulled to avoid $1,200 for it.


You will save thousands by taking a Mexican vacation and having the dentures made and the other dental work you need done at the same time. When I used to live on the border, I saw a woman I knew trying to eat lunch and she was in obvious pain. I asked her what was wrong, her dentures had broken and she tried to superglue them back together. She was trying to save up the almost $2,000 to get new ones from her dentist back home in Nevada. I asked her how much she had saved up and she had about $800. I told her that I could help her and on her next day off I drove her to the nearest border crossing and took her to a dentist I'd used before. $300 later she had a lovely new set of dentures that were completed in one day. I got a bit bruised from her hugging me and thanking me so profusely!


----------



## watcher (Sep 4, 2006)

suzyhomemaker09 said:


> Ok....this demonstrates an offices switch to EMR..( electronic medical records )
> Which is a good thing for most medical facilities...all records being digitized and stored electronically. Say for instance your physician did not do EMR...the office burns to the ground...all of your medical history is gone. Say for instance you are going to move to another city...or state...when you choose a new physician all you have to do is sign paperwork for them to electronically transmit your medical history to the new office.
> Pictures help staff be sure they are treating the proper patient...perhaps they may have a temp in the office who didn't know you....also adds security to the EMR information.
> :soap:
> ok..I'll get off my soapbox now


You know what I have never heard of a medical office's paper files being "hacked". Anyone who tells you ANY electronic file is secure is either lying to you or is a major fool!

Also its a lot easier for someone (think insurance company or a government agency) to access your medical records if all they have to do is log into the doc's computer.

One last thing. I tell people all the time; computers are great. . .until something goes wrong. Let the human make a mistake entering data and you can wind up in jail. Let it crash and you are stuck. Let a virus get lose in it and you are majorly shafted.


----------



## watcher (Sep 4, 2006)

thesedays said:


> A lot of this is all the uninsured meth lab people who blew themselves up. There are burn units that have had to close because the entire hospital was in danger of bankruptcy just because of this, and some medical ethicists even believe that people who do this should receive no treatment other than comfort care.  I recently saw a show on NatGeo where they said that Vanderbile University Hospital gave $300 MILLION in charity care every year just for people like this.


I agree. Its no different than triage after an accident. Its tough but some times you have to give someone you could save a dose of pain meds and set them aside to die. You do it because using the time and supplies to save that one person would mean several others would die. Its hard to live with (you spend the rest of your life wondering 'what if') but in the end its the correct thing to do.


----------



## watcher (Sep 4, 2006)

City Bound said:


> Well, with gasoline and electric there are alternatives and you can live without them if need be, but with medicines and medical care there are very few alternatives and many people can literally not live without them. The medical field has most people over a barrel when it comes to receiving the vital care they need.
> 
> Going to the hospital to get a life saving surgery is not commercially the same as going into 7-11 for a bag of potato chips and a few gallons of gas. Traditionally healers were well respected servants of the community. I think there are two types of people who create medicines and who look for cures to disease, one person is the person who does so to serve his fellow man and the other does so to serve his or her personal gain. The person who heals to serve his fellow man has the right intent and spirit while the person who serves his own personal gain is harmful to humanity.
> 
> Anyway, just my two cents.


Are you going to spend millions up on millions of dollars trying to come up with a cure for something if you know you aren't going to make a profit?

Remember for every one new med that reaches the market there are probably a hundred which were dead ends.

Here's a clip from a story:

A closely watched experimental drug to treat Lou Gehrigâs disease failed to work in a late-stage clinical trial, the drugâs developer, Biogen Idec, said Thursday, disappointing medical experts who had hoped it might be a useful tool against the poorly understood and fatal illness. The company said it would discontinue work on the drug.


----------



## backtocolo (May 1, 2012)

EMR were in the works long, long before Obama was on the presedential scene. My dh was working on EMR systems for the evil empire (insurance companies) back in the 90's.

I think that many folks feel about big pharma the same way they feel about oil companies. They ask for government handouts, raise prices at every oppty and are raking in HUGE profits. 

I am sorry but if you are a not for profit (BCBS) how can you be allowed to spend big bucks advertisin on the rinks for televised hockey games, ice skating etc etc etc

It's disgraceful.


----------



## City Bound (Jan 24, 2009)

watcher there is profit and there is profit. There is modest profit and then there is exploitation. If I was making a drug or looking for a cure i would be doing it to help people, not so I could become a billionare. If I found a cure for cancer tomorrow I would give it to the world for free. It would eat me up to sit back and let people die just because they could not afford a cure that I discovered.


----------



## thesedays (Feb 25, 2011)

mmoetc said:


> Now I know why my health insurance almost doubled in cost from 2002 to 2010. Obamacare.


:drum:


----------



## Shrek (May 1, 2002)

I had to go see my doc yesterday for blood tests and prescription refills. My copay for the office visit was $5 less than my three visits in 2012 ran me and when I filled my meds they were the same price they have been for the last three years :shrug:


----------



## Jpchar (May 31, 2012)

City Bound said:


> watcher there is profit and there is profit. There is modest profit and then there is exploitation. If I was making a drug or looking for a cure i would be doing it to help people, not so I could become a billionare. If I found a cure for cancer tomorrow I would give it to the world for free. It would eat me up to sit back and let people die just because they could not afford a cure that I discovered.


Where are you going to get the money for your research into your new drug? How are you going to buy the base chemicals, pay for the laboratory, equipment, electricity, water, and gas needed to do your research? What are you going to do for food, clothes, and shelter so you survive to complete you research?


----------



## watcher (Sep 4, 2006)

backtocolo said:


> I think that many folks feel about big pharma the same way they feel about oil companies. They ask for government handouts, raise prices at every oppty and are raking in HUGE profits.


Can you tell me the profit margin of either? A big company making 3% profit is going to have "HUGE profits" when compared to a little one making 50%.




backtocolo said:


> I am sorry but if you are a not for profit (BCBS) how can you be allowed to spend big bucks advertisin on the rinks for televised hockey games, ice skating etc etc etc
> 
> It's disgraceful.


NPOs are allowed to advertise. I was on the board of one and we advertised as much as possible. Of course we tried to get as much of it donated as possible.


----------



## watcher (Sep 4, 2006)

City Bound said:


> watcher there is profit and there is profit. There is modest profit and then there is exploitation. If I was making a drug or looking for a cure i would be doing it to help people, not so I could become a billionare. If I found a cure for cancer tomorrow I would give it to the world for free.


Ok, how much money are you giving away to find the cure? Come on put your money where your mouth is. How much of your income are you willing to give away to find the cure? 

Also if you gave away that cure where you get the money to find the cure for all the other things out there killing people?




City Bound said:


> It would eat me up to sit back and let people die just because they could not afford a cure that I discovered.


Does it eat you up that people are dieing right now because you are not giving your money to provide medical care for them? Does the fact you are spending money on things like an extra pair of shoes when that money could provide the necessary care to save a malaria victim in Africa? How can you sit at your dinner table eating anything more than rice and beans knowing the money you spent on that 'extra' food could be used to save the lives of children who are laying in bed dieing of diarrhea in a third world country? What kind of EVIL person are you spending money on yourself while people are dieing?


----------



## City Bound (Jan 24, 2009)

Jpchar said:


> Where are you going to get the money for your research into your new drug? How are you going to buy the base chemicals, pay for the laboratory, equipment, electricity, water, and gas needed to do your research? What are you going to do for food, clothes, and shelter so you survive to complete you research?


Grants, private donations, and I would work as a doctor or a college teacher. That is how things use to be done, the gov would give research grants, privite donations would collected, and many scientists and doctors worked in their off hours to look for cures. Now that it has become business people look at it as business and they apply the idea of investments, returns, and profit.


----------



## watcher (Sep 4, 2006)

City Bound said:


> Grants, private donations, and I would work as a doctor or a college teacher. That is how things use to be done, the gov would give research grants, privite donations would collected, and many scientists and doctors worked in their off hours to look for cures. Now that it has become business people look at it as business and they apply the idea of investments, returns, and profit.


Doctors worked that way because they HAD to, not because they wanted to. They had to support themselves while scraping up money to do research. They wasted time doing things which could have been done by a high school grad with a strong chemistry background instead of doing the actual research because they didn't have money to hire someone. They also didn't have thousands of government hoops to jump through. Nor did they have to worry about being sued for a billion dollars if after their cure had been approved and in use for 20 years it was discovered it had some unknown side effect.

I do have to ask you when was the last time you heard of a cure coming out of South Africa? Bolivia? Iran? Scotland?


----------



## City Bound (Jan 24, 2009)

watcher said:


> I do have to ask you when was the last time you heard of a cure coming out of South Africa? Bolivia? Iran? Scotland?


When was the last time you heard of much of anything good coming out of those countries?

Obviously we disagree and obviously the human race will always be at odds with themselves and each other. This is not a perfect world. My personal feeling is that people who put profits before people are wrong and the people who put people before profits are also wrong. Somewhere at the center of that conflict is a balance that can be found that opens the door to a greater wellbeing and prosperity for all. Usually, when some balance and harmony is found between to conflicting sides life functions better.


----------



## watcher (Sep 4, 2006)

City Bound said:


> When was the last time you heard of much of anything good coming out of those countries?
> 
> Obviously we disagree and obviously the human race will always be at odds with themselves and each other. This is not a perfect world. My personal feeling is that people who put profits before people are wrong and the people who put people before profits are also wrong. Somewhere at the center of that conflict is a balance that can be found that opens the door to a greater wellbeing and prosperity for all. Usually, when some balance and harmony is found between to conflicting sides life functions better.


Ok, I'll bite. How much profit am I allowed to make on your suffering? 5%? 10% 25%


----------



## janetn (Apr 26, 2012)

The same pill that costs $100 here is $5 in other countries. Why? Because those countries have socialised medicine and they can haggle the price down. We [the USA ] pay the difference - the cost of research and devolpment. So thank our government for letting us pay for everyone else in the world. Other countries simply refuse to pay the big bucks. So we get stuck with all the costs.

How do I know this, SIL is a president of one of the biggest clinical trial companies in the world.


----------



## AngieM2 (May 10, 2002)

janetn said:


> The same pill that costs $100 here is $5 in other countries. Why? Because those countries have socialised medicine and they can haggle the price down. We [the USA ] pay the difference - the cost of research and devolpment. So thank our government for letting us pay for everyone else in the world. Other countries simply refuse to pay the big bucks. So we get stuck with all the costs.
> 
> How do I know this, SIL is a president of one of the biggest clinical trial companies in the world.


but isn't part of that due to the research and 1st manufacturing is here, and then the rest of the world piggy backs on the expensive research done here?


----------



## uhcrandy (Sep 16, 2010)

Why all the hate? Busnesses are Busnesses. They all need to make a profit, or they go out of Busness. A drug compay is no different than any other company. I am sorry some people have a hard time, but dont we all have a hard time? The world does not owe anyone a living. If a certain drug is too expensive, try a generic, or a different older/cheaper drug.


----------



## Hollowdweller (Jul 13, 2011)

AngieM2 said:


> but isn't part of that due to the research and 1st manufacturing is here, and then the rest of the world piggy backs on the expensive research done here?


Not gov't here pays for the research mostly. 

It's because other countries are allowed to bargain for bulk purchases of pharmaceuticals where for instance congress specifically forbade medicare from doing so.



> WASHINGTON, April 18 â A pillar of the Democratic political program tumbled today when Republicans in the Senate blocked a proposal to allow Medicare to negotiate lower drug prices for millions of older Americans, a practice now forbidden by law.
> Democrats could not muster the 60 votes needed to take up the legislation in the face of staunch opposition from Republicans, who said that private insurers and their agents, known as pharmacy benefit managers, were already negotiating large discounts for Medicare beneficiaries.


http://www.nytimes.com/2007/04/18/washington/18cnd-medicare.html?_r=0


Also interesting to note is because they were afraid the drug companies would pump money to oppose the ACA they did not change this in the ACA.


----------

