# Have You Ever Hand-To-Hand Disarmed Someone Who Was Holding A Loaded Pistol On You?



## Tom Horn (Feb 10, 2021)

I have.

Share your story, or ask me about mine.


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## starrynights (Oct 7, 2021)

Tom Horn said:


> I have.
> 
> Share your story, or ask me about mine.


I was looking at condos in south NYS 2 yrs ago. I met the owners (turned out not really the owners) at the property, looked around and I liked it. I turned to talk money with the couple and as smooth as glass he had a nice little Sig in his hand. The woman just stood there. He had the thing pointed in my direction from 4 feet away and of course I assumed it was loaded. He handed it to me and said 'take it' but I refused so he took my hand and put the gun in it. Just to check the temp I pointed it at his face and then at the woman who was standing a bit behind him. He went pale on the spot. I casually asked him if there was a clip in it and he said no. I made them both go outside on the open deck, surprise! they did it. Then I made them get in their car and drive away. I wiped the gun down, went back inside and laid it on the table, got in my car and drove the opposite way. I do not know if was loaded or not. The place was listed by an agency and I called them and told them I had a bad encounter with the owners of one of their listings, gave him the listing info and said he never had a listing like that. That was one of my several meetings with the Secret Service. Moral of the story---never marry a Secret Service agent who had gone into Cambodia as a dust off medic during Nam---or better yet, just stay away from all agents, even real estate.


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## GREENCOUNTYPETE (Jul 25, 2006)

Tom you mentioned it was your son in an earlier post , how did that come to be?

I have never had one pointed at me intentionally.

I have caught a few that were headed for breaking range protocol while working as an RSO they were about to point at someone , none of those people were intentionally trying to point at any one. they just weren't minding their muzzle. part of why we like to start kids with air rifles , if you can pump and load an air rifle while always maintaining muzzle discipline , you are well on your way to a lifetime of good muzzle discipline.


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## Tom Horn (Feb 10, 2021)

GREENCOUNTYPETE said:


> Tom you mentioned it was your son in an earlier post , how did that come to be?
> 
> I have never had one pointed at me intentionally.
> 
> I have caught a few that were headed for breaking range protocol while working as an RSO they were about to point at someone , none of those people were intentionally trying to point at any one. they just weren't minding their muzzle. part of why we like to start kids with air rifles , if you can pump and load an air rifle while always maintaining muzzle discipline , you are well on your way to a lifetime of good muzzle discipline.


He was taught gun safety from a very young age. He also developed some considerable emotional problems.

I had no Idea that he was capable of such an act.

He was 21 at the time sitting on the floor fiddling with a 1911 and grumbling about some perceived injustice.

I had my left side to him and was not actively speaking to him when he slid a full magazine into the weapon and jacked a round into the breech.

I was pis*sed, however, I knew enough to not say anything that would exacerbate the situation. I looked at him and he at me and after a few minutes he lowered the weapon. I went back to the computer.

Approximately 30 minutes later he had moved to the couch which was six or so feet away from me and did it again. Loaded, cocked, locked. 8 rounds.

I determined that once was too many times, twice couldn't be let go. I made up my mind that if he killed me, I could not allow him to continue doing this. Not now, not ever again.

I stood and crossed the open floor between us staring down the bore, grabbed the wrist of his hand holding the weapon and hand-to-hand disarmed him.

Not a pleasant memory.

When I saw this, I got a chill because what Speirs said is exactly how I felt that night and it had worked just the same as he said it would..


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## Big_John (Dec 1, 2021)

Nope .... have not. Hope to never have to do it.

But in the event I am faced with such a situation, I will not try to disarm, I will go aggressive with my own sidearm. I'm a concealed carry and I will not hesitate in the instance that my life is on the line.

I have had urban warfare training and it is ..... dog eat dog. There is no quarter offered.


.................


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## Tom Horn (Feb 10, 2021)

Big_John said:


> Nope .... have not. Hope to never have to do it.
> 
> But in the event I am faced with such a situation, I will not try to disarm, I will go aggressive with my own sidearm. I'm a concealed carry and I will not hesitate in the instance that my life is on the line.
> 
> ...


I think that no one knows exactly what they will do until they are faced with doing it.


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## mike554 (Jun 9, 2012)

Had a pistol stuck in my face in Salvador, Brazil. I was at a phone center talking to my wife (ex wife now). The phone center got robbed and they made everyone go upstairs except me for some reason. I was unaware of anything because it had been noisy and had a finger in my other ear. A guy picked my pocket on the way out, I turned and immediately dropped the phone and ran to him. He fumbled in his waist band and pulled out a gun and stuck it in my face and said "I f...ing kill you". As soon as I saw him pulling the gun I stopped and threw up my hands and said take it. I wasn't dying in some foreign port for 30.00 and some credit cards. Smart decision because there was at least 2 of them and while I was fighting with him the other one could have just popped me. Caught some ribbing on the ship but it didn't bother me.


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## GREENCOUNTYPETE (Jul 25, 2006)

Tom Horn said:


> He was taught gun safety from a very young age. He also developed some considerable emotional problems.
> 
> I had no Idea that he was capable of such an act.
> 
> ...


my take on it.
it's called responsibility and it is beyond what most will do or take any more. 
you felt responsible for him not harming himself or others with his emotional problems , if that meant you had to take one resolving the issue , how do you live with your kids harming people.
not sure , but some people make all sorts of excuses for it , others take a responsibility that is probably beyond what is really theirs.
you took that responsibility.


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## Adirondackian (Sep 26, 2021)

Never had to try, thank God. Ive been training in the martial arts since I was 8 years old, and Ive been a gun advocate most of my adult life. I can tell you this; Your odds of pulling something like that off against an alert adversary are very slim. If I have a gun on you, all I have to do is flinch a finger and you're dead.

My guess is when you're staring down the barrel of death, most of you will think twice before even considering it. The only time it makes sense to try is if you are convinced the intent is to kill you anyway.


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## GREENCOUNTYPETE (Jul 25, 2006)

Adirondackian said:


> Never had to try, thank God. Ive been training in the martial arts since I was 8 years old, and Ive been a gun advocate most of my adult life. I can tell you this; Your odds of pulling something like that off against an alert adversary are very slim. If I have a gun on you, all I have to do is flinch a finger and you're dead.
> 
> My guess is when you're staring down the barrel of death, most of you will think twice before even considering it. The only time it makes sense to try is if you are convinced the intent is to kill you anyway.


there is a guy in Detroit likes to make videos and convince people they can disarm a person with a gun just take his simple training of course he charges for it.

some one called him out on it and if you don't get in his perfect position setting you up to get the gun taken , he gets shot almost every time.

if you have to close the distance or your gun pointer is moderately trained, and or committed to shooting you , your shot.

if the gun pointer is hesitant you might beat them.

you could well survive long enough to take them with you if you also have a weapon but your likely going to get shot if that gun is loaded and the safety off.


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## muleskinner2 (Oct 7, 2007)

I have never taken a gun away from someone who had the drop on me. But I have, beat the drop. Only once, and that was enough for me to know I don't want to ever do it again.


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## GunMonkeyIntl (May 13, 2013)

starrynights said:


> …Just to check the temp I pointed it at his face and then at the woman who was standing a bit behind him…


What does that mean? “Check the temp”?


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## starrynights (Oct 7, 2021)

GunMonkeyIntl said:


> What does that mean? “Check the temp”?


it means something abstract---like to see his reaction, however slight to something. If he shows any facial or body movements that I want to see to 'check the temperature' of his intent or honesty.


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## GunMonkeyIntl (May 13, 2013)

starrynights said:


> it means something abstract---like to see his reaction, however slight to something. If he shows any facial or body movements that I want to see to 'check the temperature' of his intent or honesty.


Someone pointed a gun in your direction, then forcibly put it in your hand, and you pointed it at their head, and then at the head of the person they were with, to see what their reactions would be?

That’s felony assault, even if they were the one with the gun and had pointed it at you a moment ago. That doesn’t sound like a smart thing to do.


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## Tom Horn (Feb 10, 2021)

Adirondackian said:


> Never had to try, thank God. Ive been training in the martial arts since I was 8 years old, and Ive been a gun advocate most of my adult life. I can tell you this; Your odds of pulling something like that off against an alert adversary are very slim. If I have a gun on you, all I have to do is flinch a finger and you're dead.
> 
> My guess is when you're staring down the barrel of death, most of you will think twice before even considering it. The only time it makes sense to try is if you are convinced the intent is to kill you anyway.


I was fully cognizant of the fact that had he done so, he could have emptied eight rounds into me in as many seconds.

When faced with a situation like that empty-handed, with no cover, you either respond or beg for your life.

Who he was did not matter. When he did what he did he became an adversary that only a fool underestimates.

In the time it took to cross the open floor to him was time enough to reconsider it numerous times. 

That did not keep me from doing what I felt was necessary.

As I said and saw Lt Spiers say in the video Band of Brothers, in order to do what I did, I had to, and did consider myself as good as dead before I took one step towards him.

*“Ronald Spiers: The only hope you have is to accept the fact that you're already dead. The sooner you accept that, the sooner you'll be able to function as a soldier is supposed to function: without mercy, without compassion, without remorse. All war depends upon it.”*

― Stephen E. Ambrose, Band of Brothers: E Company, 506th Regiment, 101st Airborne from Normandy to Hitler's Eagle's Nest 

FYI... I didn't see Band of Brothers until more than 15 years after the fact.


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## Chief50 (10 mo ago)

Three times I have had people point a gun at me. Two times it was a robbery. First time He came in where I worked and tried to rob it. Kept telling me had a gun and I told him it didn't count if I couldn't see it. He pulled it out and pointed it at me. I told him to use or get out of my way.

Second time a man jumped in the passenger door of my pickup. Said he needed some money. I agreed with him and said I was in the same shape. He3 pulled his gun and pointed it at me and started looking in the glove box. When he turned his away from me I grabbed the gun. We fought around for several minutes. He kept telling me he really wasn't going to shoot me. I told him I planned on shooting him. He jumped out of the door and I threw the gun in a lake.

The other time a man pulled a rifle on me when his father ran into my father's car. I carried a gun in my car. Told him if he would wait a minute until I got mine we could have a shoot out. He was back into his car and heading down the road.

There was another time when a man was going to shoot me because I told some of his relatives to get off of my land. It really wouldn't count as he kept loading and unloading his gun. I called him Barney Fife and he went home.


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## romysbaskets (Aug 29, 2009)

My late twin had a mother of pearl inset fancy 22 pistol her fiancee had given her. We were roommates at the time this event occurred. One day our toddler niece found it in her bedroom as she kept it by her bed in a nightstand drawer. This 3 year old came out pointing this gun at our direction. I calmly talked her down and asked her for the gun. Yes I stood in front of her to make sure if a shot went out, it would hit only me. Luckily that little niece adored me so she sweetly handed me the loaded gun still on safety. It was never accessible to a child ever again! Our niece was dropped at our place with no notice and we made sure my twin kept it in a safe location after this. Nothing like this ever happened again.


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## Tom Horn (Feb 10, 2021)

It's interesting that this thread has been up for around three weeks and the number of stories like mine have been few.

That's a good thing and it proves something.

I would say that among the folks that visit HT, there are more than a few who are handgun owners, yet the blood is not running in the streets as gun-grabbing politicians would have the general sheeple to believe.

The problem is not weapons.

The problem is criminals with weapons.

And most of them are murdering those of their own race in the inner cities.


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## GREENCOUNTYPETE (Jul 25, 2006)

don't think it has much to do about race , I think it has a lot to do with they kill others who are also criminals.

the numbers out of Milwaukee WI tell us 97% of all homicides in the city are felon non felon. I wouldn't expect that the numbers are that different in other places. 

Chief Flynn wasn't wrong when he gave his 4 ways to not get shot in Milwaukee


Don't Belong to a gang
Don't be a drug dealer
Don't carry an illegal gun
If you are in an argument with a stranger, ask them how often they've been arrested. If they've been arrested more often than you've been arrested, concede the point. 
just no one wanted to hear it and he and his department had a bit of a history of painting everyone carrying a gun legal or not with a bit of the same brush.


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## Tom Horn (Feb 10, 2021)

GREENCOUNTYPETE said:


> don't think it has much to do about race , I think it has a lot to do with they kill others who are also criminals.
> 
> the numbers out of Milwaukee WI tell us 97% of all homicides in the city are felon non felon. I wouldn't expect that the numbers are that different in other places.
> 
> ...


The facts prove that it has quite a bit to do with race.


> Blacks are a third of the population in Chicago but commit 80 percent of all shootings, author Heather Mac Donald told Tucker Carlson on a recent show. In Los Angeles, blacks commit 44 percent of all violent crime but make up 9 percent of the population. In St. Louis, blacks are less than a third of the population but commit 90 percent of all homicides. In New York City, blacks commit about three quarters of all shootings although they’re 23 percent of the population.
> 
> On Monday alone, 16 people were shot and two killed in Chicago, a city led by blacks. Two teenage black girls killed an Uber Eats driver in D.C. during a foiled carjacking. A knife-wielding black man, 25, was shot dead after he rammed his car into a barricade at the Capitol, killing one policeman. A deranged black man who had been released from prison after killing his mother was caught on camera kicking, stomping, and beating a random 65-year-old Asian woman, while others, including a security guard, watched.
> 
> Link To Article


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## GREENCOUNTYPETE (Jul 25, 2006)

being a felon doesn't exclude you from being black , and being Black doesn't make you a felon.

what nearly all of these violent criminals share is shooting or murder isn't their first serious offence even if they were never caught for the first offenses.

breakdown in family structure and parental involvement in a Childs life are the two biggest factor in a life of crime.

kids who raise themselves or rather the streets raise the kids.

typically people hold no one's life more valuable than their own ,possibly their child's. but if you believe your life has no value how can you value anyone else life.


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## Tom Horn (Feb 10, 2021)

GREENCOUNTYPETE said:


> being a felon doesn't exclude you from being black , and being Black doesn't make you a felon.


That is such an obvious fact as to not necessitate mention.


GREENCOUNTYPETE said:


> what nearly all of these violent criminals share is shooting or murder isn't their first serious offence even if they were never caught for the first offenses.


And why is that even necessary to point out when the purpose of the mention of the murder rate is not to illuminate lesser offences but rather the commission of actual murder.

It doesn't matter if the murderer was a squeaky-clean choirboy, if he commits murder, he is then a murderer.



GREENCOUNTYPETE said:


> breakdown in family structure and parental involvement in a Childs life are the two biggest factor in a life of crime.


I grew up in a two parent home where both parents were so self-absorbed that they were effectively not parents at all. 

My father took off 1000 plus miles away when I was about 12 or 13 and left the rest of us and our mother to basically fend for ourselves.

None of us took up a life of crime.

Dr. ben Carson grew up pretty much fatherless and in the inner city and he became a world-renowned brain surgeon.

It ain't the size of the dog in the fight, it's the size of the fight in the dog.

Only dead fish go with the flow.



GREENCOUNTYPETE said:


> kids who raise themselves or rather the streets raise the kids.


We pretty much raised ourselves and I believe we turned out alright.

Not a drunk, or a bum, or a welfare case in the bunch.



GREENCOUNTYPETE said:


> typically people hold no one's life more valuable than their own ,possibly their child's. but if you believe your life has no value how can you value anyone else life.


I disagree, even the most heartless killer is a coward at heart and will piss themselves like the sadistic bast*rd Percy Wetmore in the Green Mile if they are caught at a disadvantage.


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## GunMonkeyIntl (May 13, 2013)

GREENCOUNTYPETE said:


> don't think it has much to do about race , I think it has a lot to do with they kill others who are also criminals.





Tom Horn said:


> The facts prove that it has quite a bit to do with race.


I’m with Pete on this. It’s not a matter of race, at least not race, alone.

The conclusion drawn in your article about the relative populations of black and white folks in Chicago, vs the number of shootings, by race, is a flawed analysis. It only considers those two raw statistics, without any nuance.

Here is a map of shootings in Chicago. You see two main clusters, one on the south side, and one on the far west side, around the Humboldt Park and Garfield Park neighborhoods.











Here is a map of Chicago, by racial majority.










You’ll notice there’s a near perfect match between the concentration of shootings and the neighborhoods that are majority-black. But, pay attention to that Hispanic-majority corridor between to the two black-majority regions.

Here’s a heat map by income.









This one aligns with the other two pretty well, but is an even better match to the shootings map than the racial majority map is. That corridor of Hispanic majority, between the two areas of black-majority, still has some poor neighborhoods, but they’re not as dense, and not as poor as the poorest neighborhoods in the black-majority area.


Now, look more closely at that corridor of Hispanic-majority neighborhoods between the two concentrations of black-majority:

Here are the same three maps cropped down to that corridor. All three show the same trend, except, this time, in a Hispanic-majority area. There is a cluster of shootings in the McKinley park area, south of Ogden, roughly between Ashland and Western Avenues, and another in Archer Heights, between IL-50 and Pulaski. Those two areas also correspond to two of the lowest income neighborhoods in that Hispanic-majority area.





























If you cram enough poor people into a dense enough area, crime, of all types, goes up. It doesn’t matter what color their skin is.


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## JRHill02 (Jun 20, 2020)

I got into a fight in 6th grade. In 9th I had two black guys pull a knife (pen) on me for a cheap wrist watch. That's it. But I was always under average in height and weight and while I have been in injured many times, I avoided any pain from those kind of situations. It's just a waste of energy to me 'cause I could be working instead. Its really not that hard to defuse a confrontation, and even better, not get into it in the first place.

And I believe/know I've had some providential help too. Really, I shouldn't still be alive....


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