# Want to put about $3K into solar



## nathan104 (Nov 16, 2007)

Have about $3000 that Im wanting to do something into solar with. Preferably something I can add panels to later on. I know I wont be able to power my house for that, but would really like to be able to charge some deep cycle batteries, run some lights, maybe a slow cooker, a radio, small things like that. Not looking to run large appliances or big energy suckers like vacuum, a/c or microwave. 

I have a metal roof on our house with the ridge running east to west so have a large roof area facing south I can add panels onto. 

Any help with reccomendations would be great. May be able to add a little if something good is just above my price. Not looking to buy cheap junk, want something that will last. Thanks.


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## wind power (Sep 29, 2010)

I guess you could start here:
http://sunelec.com/


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## byexample (Aug 28, 2009)

For a basic system you'll need solar panels, a charge controller, batteries, an inverter, and an assortment of wire, fuses, etc.. You'll definitely want to do some research on the various system components that go into a well-built solar power system. It's hard to design a system that fits a $3000 budget without knowing a lot more about your needs, preferences, etc.. But here's some info that I can share based on our experience:

A charge controller is going to run something in the neighborhood of $200-300. Could be more, could be less -- depending on how fancy or frugal you wanna get. I like the Morningstar Charge Controllers. They've been very dependable for me and they are reasonably priced. Your charge controller will need to be sized for the number of panels you want to be able to support.

An inverter could be as low as $50 or as high as thousands of dollars. You need to have an idea of how large a load you want to be able to support. In your case, I'd recommend a modified sine wave inverter... something in the 1000 watt range perhaps. Harbor Freight carries a number of inexpensive inverters as do just about every truck stop in America.

There are a number of different approaches to batteries. I like AGMs... but they are expensive. They are also maintenance-free and, when not abused, last much longer than some of the more traditional wet lead-acid batteries. Lead-acid batteries are much more affordable, but require regular maintenance and have to be installed in a well-ventilated area (they off-gas hydrogen during normal use). Prices are all over the map on batteries. Since they are very heavy, it often pays to find a local source since shipping batteries can be very expensive.

Since you want to keep your costs to a modest level and you want to build your system over time, I recommend that you built a 12 volt system. It's the easiest to add to over time and there's lots of inexpensive 12 volt equipment to be found. That means you'll want to shop for 12 volt panels. Good news is that solar panel prices are the lowest I've seen them since I first moved off-the-grid.

For $3000 I'd expect that you *might* be able to pick up 3-4 solar panels, 3-4 lead acid batteries, a decent charge controller, and an inexpensive inverter.

Best of luck!


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## wind power (Sep 29, 2010)

yep 3000 is going to be a lighter system.
You might be able to get around things a bit though....but many things are missing from your equation, but there are also some "shortcuts"

First, Grid tying will eat all or almost all of the 3000 bucks in the inverter alone.


If a stand alone system but with the potential to grid tie later on you can use an AIMS inverter, they can be neutral grounded. I use one and its dead nuts reliable, I then use some switch gear ( common transfer switch) to toggle back and forth between grid power and inverter power when needed, It stays on 24/7 and is always shoving power to various loads I use.

This route can be "added on too" as you go along....in other words you could buy your transfer switch later on if need be and simply use the inverter in the the stand alone method for the time being. 

The 7000 watts capable inverter is around 1800 bucks.... smaller sizes are much, much cheaper. So there are options other than buying costly inverters such as Outbacks etc etc.

Yes charge controllers are a must have too, but here too you can save some money and put it into diffrent areas of your system, It's possible to use a Ghurd controller, you can get one of his kits for 17 bucks shipped to your house and its very, very reliable too.

There all kinds of ways to look at a system, you can do it all at once of course or add as you go. However if I'm building a system to grow later on
I would seriously think about one of the limiting factors up front which would be my inverter...size it up front, that way you're not buying additonal inverters, but that argument could also be the same case in buying panels, batteries etc. etc.

Also some folks aruge that batteries are kind of a watse to buy because they eventually crap out and its best to spend the money towards panels and inverters, but only you can decide when you reach that happy balance point...maybe you need more batteries for storage....I sure wish I did, I have 16 lead acid batteries and wish I had more because my wind gen often burns off the extra power through resistors on the DC side ( wasting power) and the water heater (putting it to good use) on the AC side.

However 3000 bucks should get you producing useable power!


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## tkrabec (Mar 12, 2003)

My current thought for moving to Solar is probably some what different than many.
1. Increase efficiency of all lighting & appliances (replace bulbs with cfl, etc.) then replace appliances when they are old.
2. I'm looking more and more at going with a battery bank (inverter & charge controller) 1st. This will function much like a whole house UPS, for most of my 120v loads & 220v well pump(probably gonna be converted to 120 when it gets replaced) 
3. spend money on Solar panels & wind turbines as costs funds become available.

My line of reasoning on this is we live FL and out main problems are prolonged power issues due to hurricanes & some violent thunder storms. Our current process is to hook up the generator and run it during the day, leaving us with out power at night, and during the storm. The whole house UPS would allow us to continue to operate with power, ie fans & Lights at night. & probably water.


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## wy_white_wolf (Oct 14, 2004)

If your only requirement is that it has to do with solar then,

Put it into a solar hot water system. It's the second best bang for your buck right behind conservation. PV is pretty much at the very bottom of the list as for ROI,

Gary has lots of ideas on how to do it at: http://www.builditsolar.com/Projects/WaterHeating/water_heating.htm


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## Jim-mi (May 15, 2002)

You up the anti a whole bunch when you want to include 220vac for a well pump. Not really do-able with those cheap inverters.


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## SolarGary (Sep 8, 2005)

Hi,
If you want to do solar, I'd do as WWW says and build a solar water heater -- you can build the $1K system and still have $2K left over for PV or whatever.

If you are not committed to the off grid approach, I'd look at putting in an Enphase grid tied system. It will let you start with as little as $1000 and keep adding to it -- each panel gets its own grid tie micro inverter, so you can keep adding panels over time. 
If you google on Clarian PV, they are supposed to have a similar system out later this year where the PV modules just plug into a wall socket -- can start at less than $1000.

The $1K water heater: http://www.builditsolar.com/Experimental/PEXColDHW/Overview.htm

The new $2K water and space heating system: http://www.builditsolar.com/Projects/SpaceHeating/DHWplusSpace/Main.htm

The Enphase micro inverter PV system: http://www.builditsolar.com/Projects/PV/EnphasePV/Main.htm

Both of the water heating systems will pay their cost back in about 3 years (less with rebates) and they are just as much fun to build as the PV system -- maybe more.
The PV system might pay its way back in 20 years -- maybe a bit less if electricity keeps going up.

Lots more example systems on BuildItSolar.com.

Gary


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## nathan104 (Nov 16, 2007)

Thanks for all the great suggestions. I am looking into a solar water heater, but that will be seperate for this endeavor. Truthfully, Im not really concerned with a return on investment. Im just wanting a backup in case electric goes out for an extended period of time. One of the systems SOLARGARY was explaing sounds like what Im interested in where I can get started with what I have and add more panel for more wattage over time. Thats really the approach I want. Noy exactly up to speed on the grid tie thing so Ill have to read up on that. Dont think our elec co does the thing where you can reduce your bill with power you generate going back into the net. Really just wanting to be able to have lights, other small things and charge 12v batteries for now, and then maybe do other larger things after Im able to add on more panels if it can work like that.

Ove also been looking at all the other suggestions of improving efficiency of our house with cfl's, fixing drafts, insulation, etc. But, that is seperate from the $3K I have available to put into solar power. Thanks for all the great replies!


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## SolarGary (Sep 8, 2005)

nathan104 said:


> Thanks for all the great suggestions. I am looking into a solar water heater, but that will be seperate for this endeavor. Truthfully, Im not really concerned with a return on investment. Im just wanting a backup in case electric goes out for an extended period of time. One of the systems SOLARGARY was explaing sounds like what Im interested in where I can get started with what I have and add more panel for more wattage over time. Thats really the approach I want. Noy exactly up to speed on the grid tie thing so Ill have to read up on that. Dont think our elec co does the thing where you can reduce your bill with power you generate going back into the net. Really just wanting to be able to have lights, other small things and charge 12v batteries for now, and then maybe do other larger things after Im able to add on more panels if it can work like that.
> 
> Ove also been looking at all the other suggestions of improving efficiency of our house with cfl's, fixing drafts, insulation, etc. But, that is seperate from the $3K I have available to put into solar power. Thanks for all the great replies!


Hi -- The system I described where you can start small and build is strictly grid-tied, so won't work if the grid is down.

Gary


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## byexample (Aug 28, 2009)

Since you are in FL and you are looking to be able to produce power in the case of a hurricane, etc. you'll want to consider how you'll protect your panels from flying debris. I've known a few folks out here who have lost panels to flying debris... during a serious hurricane you'd have a fair chance of losing panels unless you come up with something akin to hurricane shutters for your panels... especially if your goal is to be able to rely on those panels in the event of a serious hurricane knocking out power.

Just a thought. Best of luck with your venture into solar.


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## JohnP (Sep 1, 2010)

You can get 12/24vdc submersible well pumps. Grundos SQFlex (600+ depth) and SHURflo 9300 (200' depth) are a couple of them.


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## nathan104 (Nov 16, 2007)

Thanks guys. I am in Texas, not FL, so not worried about debri impact, Also do not have a well pump to run so thats not an issue. If the grid tie system only works when there is grid power, I DEFINITLY DO NOT want one like that. 

I am looking for something for when the grid goes down. Just looking to run some lights(I can buy LED if I need to, or 12v car interior lights), Id like to be able to charge a battery bank to store power to use at night and when the sun isnt out. And, Id like an inverter so I can run small low attage things like lights, slow cooker, a radio. Do not need to run heat,air,pumps,stove, microwave. 

Costco has a solar kit made by coleman for $179 which includes a 55 watt solar panel, the solar charge controller, and an inverter. Could I just buy several of these and a bank of batteries? Or, would I be better off buying something else. Not sure on the quality of the coleman product.


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## TnAndy (Sep 15, 2005)

Knock out just about ANY appliance that uses electricity to heat. Here's why:

If by "slow cooker", you mean a crock pot, you might wanna flip yours over and read the bottom.

Mine says 160-250w ( I assume that's low/high setting ). It takes about 8 hrs on high with mine to make a pot of beef stew. 

That's 8hrs x 250w = 2000watt/hrs


Assume you get 6-7 good hours of sun/day. 2000w/hrs by 6hrs = 333.33watts per hour. Knock off for system inefficiency, cloudy days, etc, and you'll probably need about 9-10 of those Coleman 55w panels JUST to cook a pot of stew.


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## nathan104 (Nov 16, 2007)

I could eliminate the slow cooker I guess, but even buying 10 of those kits, Id still only be at $2K and I do have a $3K budget for this. Ill do that if its the best route.


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## mightybooboo (Feb 10, 2004)

nathan104 said:


> I could eliminate the slow cooker I guess, but even buying 10 of those kits, Id still only be at $2K and I do have a $3K budget for this. Ill do that if its the best route.


Its not the best route,get quality NAME BRAND panels,new or used.Panels last forever if they are A#1 quality,cheapo kits do not last.They are learner kits,not lifetime kits.The difference is Yugo vrs Mercedes.


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## mightybooboo (Feb 10, 2004)

Or for example you could get 4 of these Kyoceras,as good a panel as you can get,for 1450 dollars,540 watts total.
http://www.affordable-solar.com/kyocera-KD135GX-UPU-135-watt-solar-panel.htm

Comparable deals all over the net,find a place by you.

Charge controller
135 bucks for a morningstar charge controller,Huge bang for the bucks
http://www.ecodirect.com/Morningstar-TS-45-12-24-p/morningstar-tristar-ts-45.htm

Xantrex 2000 watt PURE sine wave inverter,NOT Modified sine wave which wont run anything with an LCD digital panel on it..335 bucks.
http://www.hodgesmarine.com/Xantrex-Prowatt-Sw2000-2000w-True-Sinewave-Inverte-p/xan806-1220.htm
-----------------------------------
Thats 1920 dollars for all name brand A#1 quality,best in the WORLD quality equipment.

Leaves you 1080 dollars for batteries,batt cables,and wires to run from panels to controller to battery,and a couple fuses.Hooking it up is SIMPLE and PLENTY folks here will walk you right through it,if you have even minimal mechanical ability.

Or you could buy Chinese cheapo crappola.For same price that wont last and has nowhere near the functionality.

There is no bargain in buying cheap off brand equipment in solar,this is one situation where you really do get what you pay for,so you buy Tier One stuff,not offbrand junk marketed for 'convenience/no ability' to hook up yourself.


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## wy_white_wolf (Oct 14, 2004)

nathan104 said:


> I could eliminate the slow cooker I guess, ....


Now your starting to think. Conserve as much as possble first! If you don't use electricity in cooking you won't need to produce it to cook.

Instead of the slow cooker get a solar oven. Cost range $25 to $400. Simple design and functionality. Works without batteries, grid-tie, PV or any high technology. All it needs is the Sun and you to put the meal together.

I have an SOS Sport (Solar Oven Society) model that we use at the ranch when camping and at home to keep in practice. It should be able to cook anything you do in the crock pot and more. 

I know others here have the Sun Oven which is the top of the line (IMHO). MBB I think is one of them. You might try to find some of our old threads on them.

WWW


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## mightybooboo (Feb 10, 2004)

Yup,do have the sun oven and it does work well.You have to move it every fifteen minutes or so to keep temp up,and clouds just kill it,but Ive made bread and roasts in it,and bread really comes out NICE.


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## nathan104 (Nov 16, 2007)

I will defintly look into the solar oven. We will be able to cook with wood and semi slow cook unsing dutch oven, but was wanting another way to cook without having to burn wood. That solar oven your described sounds like the way to go for me. 

Thank you for the info on the panels and equipment. I will look more towards name brand. I defintly want something that will stand up over time. Would hate to finally need it and it konk out on me. 

Is there a certain type of battery yall reccomend? And, I will be looking into both LED and 12v auto lights. Is it just a preference choice or would one be better than the other? 

Thanks!


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## Jim-mi (May 15, 2002)

booboo has a good post just above on equipment........really can't go wrong with the stuff he mentioned.
For a system like this a good 'entry level' battery is what they use in golf cars. A deep cycle 6vdc bat.
A well known name is 'Trojan' or US battery, or Exide . . . .
shipping bats to your door step is nasty $$ wise . . . .
so look in *your* area (yellow pages?) for a battery dealer 'near you' and drive there to get them.


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## wind power (Sep 29, 2010)

Hi Nathan,
I think you would get far less power consumption with LED's I have some LED bulbs around here which are suppose to be about a 50 watt bulb and they consume about 4 watts...or so they claim.

As to batteries, the sky is the limit on quality and cost.... a good set of golf cart battteris from Sams club would probably do you good.

I want some of those Railroad battteris they use at those switching guards...I hear those things last about 20 years.
Some folks also use those Rolls Surrett's ( spelling) but since you are hovering around 3,000 bucks, those are some pricey batteries if I understand correctly. Yet you can always upgrade batteries later. If, me I would sink my money into the panels 1st, the type of inverter and controller 2nd and batteries last, since they eventually crap out anyway....but thats just me...there is plenty of argument for and against what I just said.
However check out Sunelec.com for panel prices....it appears they have some very good pricing going on.


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## mightybooboo (Feb 10, 2004)

wind power said:


> If, me I would sink my money into the panels 1st, the type of inverter and controller 2nd and batteries last, since they eventually crap out anyway....but thats just me...there is plenty of argument for and against what I just said.


I think you are spot on there......lead acid (trojan/exide) good to learn on as most people tend to butcher their first batteries....could go to the AGM like Deka solar 12 volts,about twice the cost but never need water,just wipe off dust as no acid fumes to corrode cables and last longer....just dont ever overcharge or else.


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## mightybooboo (Feb 10, 2004)

If you do buy this stuff,post links FIRST so folks can make sure what you want will work with what else you want.

BTW,something not mentioned. When your batteries are charged,excess panel power is just bled off by the charge controller.This is the time to use the microwave,vacuum,etc,during the times when you are cranking out excess power beyond battery capacity.


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## Wintergrower_OH (Sep 21, 2010)

Just thought i add my 2 cents . http://www.green-trust.org/wordpress/off-grid-solar-packages/


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## bbbuddy (Jul 29, 2002)

My 2 cents.
We are putting together an 800 watt solar system.

I have found that all the "incidentals" add up to enough to be double the cost of your panels, keep that in mind. there are many "little" thing you need that add up quickly.


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