# Nassar get sentenced



## alleyyooper (Apr 22, 2005)

60 years for the Federal porn charge.

175 years for the state molestion charge, pay some money to the victens and get mental health treatment in the hospital.

revoked his doctors rights.


 Al


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## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

alleyyooper said:


> 60 years for the Federal porn charge.
> 
> 175 years for the state molestion charge, pay some money to the victens and get mental health treatment in the hospital.
> 
> ...



I had thought he'd go to a "country club" prison but it doesn't look like it, he still deserves worse than the time, charges and fines for what he did to young girls. 

Here's a link: http://www.chicagotribune.com/sport...sar-gymnastics-sentencing-20180124-story.html


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## keenataz (Feb 17, 2009)

alleyyooper said:


> 60 years for the Federal porn charge.
> 
> 175 years for the state molestion charge, pay some money to the victens and get mental health treatment in the hospital.
> 
> ...



Wow, he is paying.

But I disagree with the mental health treatment. Unless he is suffering form bi polar, schizophrenia or some disease like that. His treatment should be he is out of our society.


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## Lisa in WA (Oct 11, 2004)

Wonder how long he will last in prison.


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## Lisa in WA (Oct 11, 2004)

keenataz said:


> Wow, he is paying.
> 
> But I disagree with the mental health treatment. Unless he is suffering form bi polar, schizophrenia or some disease like that. His treatment should be he is out of our society.


It does seem pointless. He will never be around kids again so why spend money or use resources?


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## no really (Aug 7, 2013)

Lisa in WA said:


> Wonder how long he will last in prison.


Hopefully not long, no sense taxpayers taking care of him


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## alleyyooper (Apr 22, 2005)

He is to get the mental health treatment in prison.
I figure after the first night he will be a virgin no more .

 Al


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## nchobbyfarm (Apr 10, 2011)

He should have been given a sentence that includes a rope.


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## newfieannie (Dec 24, 2006)

i was waiting for this one on the low side was 40 .i knew he'd get more than that. he already got 60 on the porn so he'll never be out again regardless. and i couldn't care less what they do with him in prison. ~Georgia


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## bobp (Mar 4, 2014)

Immediate Death is the only fair sentance for these types of offenders.


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## bobp (Mar 4, 2014)

Immediate Death is the only fair sentance for proven young child offender's. 
If we'd take this approach we'd remove them from the gene pool and scare the fence sitters back into being law abiding.


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## haypoint (Oct 4, 2006)

I always thought that the only way two people could keep a secret was if one was dead. I cannot imaging how this could go on with scores of women, spanning decades and apparently no one said anything or if they did it was so easily swept under the gym mat.
He'll no doubt be housed in protective custody. Then he'll either settle into his new life, content on remembering the memories and be quickly forgotten. But, perhaps, seeing his life as no longer having a purpose, he'll take the first opportunity to slash his own neck with a disposable razor.


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

Lisa in WA said:


> Wonder how long he will last in prison.


He'll likely die of old age in there.


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## keenataz (Feb 17, 2009)

haypoint said:


> I always thought that the only way two people could keep a secret was if one was dead. I cannot imaging how this could go on with scores of women, spanning decades and apparently no one said anything or if they did it was so easily swept under the gym mat.
> He'll no doubt be housed in protective custody. Then he'll either settle into his new life, content on remembering the memories and be quickly forgotten. But, perhaps, seeing his life as no longer having a purpose, he'll take the first opportunity to slash his own neck with a disposable razor.



I suspect like the Sandusky scandal, there are others who had knowledge of his actions. Hopefully they too will get their due.


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## haypoint (Oct 4, 2006)

keenataz said:


> I suspect like the Sandusky scandal, there are others who had knowledge of his actions. Hopefully they too will get their due.


So far, the MSU President is out of the loop as she jumped on it as soon as she got wind of it. But there is a woman, Gymnastics Director (?) that heard rumors but did nothing. She may be in trouble.
The whole thing is awful in every way, but I wonder if public sentiment would be different if MSU President was a man? If the Director that failed to act was a man? Seems like in such cases of abuse, or cover ups, the public is never going to believe a denial by a guy. Might be interesting to see how this unwinds.


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## Nsoitgoes (Jan 31, 2016)

As I understand it there were many complaints made, but they were 'splained away. After all - how would a 13 year old know the difference between sexual abuse and a legitimate medical procedure? /snark off. It was all one huge collusion with everyone looking the other way as long as all those lovely medals kept rolling in.


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## AggieChris (May 9, 2015)

Let the sorry bastard rot until prison justice does its thing. 

Hopefully any and all that enabled him are brought to justice as well.

Hurting/abusing a child is a crime whose penalty should be terminal. It will never dissuade those with that predisposition but they need to be culled from the herd.


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## IndyDave (Jul 17, 2017)

bobp said:


> Immediate Death is the only fair sentance for these types of offenders.


In a case like this, I would lean toward a slower and more painful type of death.


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## newfieannie (Dec 24, 2006)

for sure but like haypoint mentioned he'll be in protective custody. one of these days though they'll find a way. they mostly always do if he doesn't do himself in first. ~Georgia


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## alleyyooper (Apr 22, 2005)

Michigan doesn't have a death penally any longer. *Those in power tell us it is cheaper to feed and house them for life than frying them*. He also has to stand trial in Eaton county so there will be more court time and then jail time after that. Once he is transfured to a prison I doubt here in Michigan he will be in protective custody. The Ingum county judge did sound as if she was going to have it that way.
Some thuink like he was no body special and he was no longer a doctor.

 AL


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## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

Nsoitgoes said:


> As I understand it there were many complaints made, but they were 'splained away. After all - how would a 13 year old know the difference between sexual abuse and a legitimate medical procedure? /snark off. It was all one huge collusion with everyone looking the other way as long as all those lovely medals kept rolling in.


Absolutely, this was fluffed over just like most sexual harassment, assault and rape, they weren't believed and didn't have the power to do anything about it.


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## farmrbrown (Jun 25, 2012)

As the judge said to him, he doesn't deserve to walk outside a prison again, and she made sure of THAT.


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## oneraddad (Jul 20, 2010)

Irish Pixie said:


> Absolutely, this was fluffed over just like most sexual harassment, assault and rape, they weren't believed and didn't have the power to do anything about it.



Yep, parents didn't believe them...


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## mmoetc (Oct 9, 2012)

I’m curious about how those who often talk about some statute of limitations for judging the credibility of such accusations feel about some women coming forward after 15-20 years. Should they have been believed?


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## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

oneraddad said:


> Yep, parents didn't believe them...


I didn't read anything that indicated the parents didn't believe their girl(s)... I think there were some parents that came forward and were either not believed or ignored, no power.

And there are parents that wouldn't believe their child was sexually assaulted, for many reasons.


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## farmrbrown (Jun 25, 2012)

mmoetc said:


> I’m curious about how those who often talk about some statute of limitations for judging the credibility of such accusations feel about some women coming forward after 15-20 years. Should they have been believed?


You can wonder all day if you want to.
The number of victims usually carries more weight than anything else. In this case I think it was over 150.
So some were 20 year old accusations and some were recent.
But the point is, it's pretty stupid to think ALL of them were making it up, don't you?

In the cases of a parent being told, I can't imagine that doctor being ABLE to practice the very next day..........but YMMV.


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## mmoetc (Oct 9, 2012)

farmrbrown said:


> You can wonder all day if you want to.
> The number of victims usually carries more weight than anything else. In this case I think it was over 150.
> So some were 20 year old accusations and some were recent.
> But the point is, it's pretty stupid to think ALL of them were making it up, don't you?
> ...


I’m not sure I’ve counted you in the group I asked but thanks for the answer. I’ve always thought it stupid when some tried to dismiss any allegation because of the time frame involved and expanded that into casting doubt on all such accusations. 

What is the number of accusers for credibility? 5? 10? 20? 50? 100? 200?


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## farmrbrown (Jun 25, 2012)

mmoetc said:


> I’m not sure I’ve counted you in the group I asked but thanks for the answer. I’ve always thought it stupid when some tried to dismiss any allegation because of the time frame involved and expanded that into casting doubt on all such accusations.
> 
> What is the number of accusers for credibility? 5? 10? 20? 50? 100? 200?


What answer do you want?
What authority?
If you're asking for my documented answer, it's 2............



> Deuteronomy 19:15 ►
> *Verse* (Click for Chapter)
> New International Version
> One witness is not enough to convict anyone accused of any crime or offense they may have committed. A matter must be established by the testimony of two or three witnesses.


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## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

mmoetc said:


> I’m not sure I’ve counted you in the group I asked but thanks for the answer. I’ve always thought it stupid when some tried to dismiss any allegation because of the time frame involved and expanded that into casting doubt on all such accusations.
> 
> What is the number of accusers for credibility? 5? 10? 20? 50? 100? 200?


I'm curious, a certain quality of accuser or just the number? Higher quality of accuser, less number?


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## farmrbrown (Jun 25, 2012)

Irish Pixie said:


> I'm curious, a certain quality of accuser or just the number? Higher quality of accuser, less number?


Well, known perjurers or liars I would think are less credible.


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## oneraddad (Jul 20, 2010)

Irish Pixie said:


> I didn't read anything that indicated the parents didn't believe their girl(s)... I think there were some parents that came forward and were either not believed or ignored, no power.
> 
> And there are parents that wouldn't believe their child was sexually assaulted, for many reasons.



Like "your sister wasn't molested so you're not being molested" ?


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## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

oneraddad said:


> Like "your sister wasn't molested so you're not being molested" ?


Maybe, or they didn't want the hassle or notoriety of reporting it, felt it would devalue their daughters potential worth, many reasons. Some parents don't have their children's best interest at heart.


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

mmoetc said:


> I’ve always thought it stupid when some tried to dismiss any allegation because of the time frame involved and expanded that into casting doubt on all such accusations.


You're talking about cases where nothing was said when it happened.
That's not the same as all these girls.

There are statutes of limitations for most crimes beyond which accusations are often made just to collect money. When people start piling on everyone you begin to wonder how many are real.


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## oneraddad (Jul 20, 2010)

Irish Pixie said:


> Maybe, or they didn't want the hassle or notoriety of reporting it, felt it would devalue their daughters potential worth, many reasons. Some parents don't have their children's best interest at heart.



How ever you explain it away that's what one of the girls parents said.


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## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

oneraddad said:


> How ever you explain it away that's what one of the girls parents said.


As I said, I hadn't read anything like that so I was speaking generally. Do you have a link handy of what the parent actually said? We can then be on the same page.


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## IndyDave (Jul 17, 2017)

Irish Pixie said:


> Maybe, or they didn't want the hassle or notoriety of reporting it, felt it would devalue their daughters potential worth, many reasons. Some parents don't have their children's best interest at heart.


I would agree, and will add to your thought that after having some exposure to competitive ice skating, I noticed that quite a few parents came to see their children more as ego-boosting widgets than children. Competitive anything, especially at the Olympic level, becomes a complete 24/7 lifestyle, not just something you do on Saturday, and many people get caught up in that lifestyle to the point where they aren't going to let some petty little thing like their daughter being molested/raped get in the way of that (I imported from another website the practice of highlighting sarcasm in purple). Even though I didn't see it at this level, I did see enough to realize that it is an entirely different world full of values or in some cases the lack thereof that would shock most people.


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## oneraddad (Jul 20, 2010)

Irish Pixie said:


> As I said, I hadn't read anything like that so I was speaking generally. Do you have a link handy of what the parent actually said? We can then be on the same page.



NBC news on my TV last night and this morning, must be pretty common knowledge. Try google ?


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## mmoetc (Oct 9, 2012)

farmrbrown said:


> What answer do you want?
> What authority?
> If you're asking for my documented answer, it's 2............


An honest answer which is what you gave.


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## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

I love this: "Circuit Court Judge Rosemarie Aquilina told a survivor who testified, “Leave your pain here, and go out and do your magnificent things.”


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## keenataz (Feb 17, 2009)

alleyyooper said:


> Michigan doesn't have a death penally any longer. *Those in power tell us it is cheaper to feed and house them for life than frying them*. He also has to stand trial in Eaton county so there will be more court time and then jail time after that. Once he is transfured to a prison I doubt here in Michigan he will be in protective custody. The Ingum county judge did sound as if she was going to have it that way.
> Some thuink like he was no body special and he was no longer a doctor.
> 
> AL



Just a couple of things. I never understood why in cases like this why are there other trials in other juridstictions? He is going to prison for rest of his life. Why try him elsewhere? He only can go for one life.

As far as death penalty, even if Michigan had one, he would not get it for this crime.


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## Nsoitgoes (Jan 31, 2016)

Irish Pixie said:


> Maybe, or they didn't want the hassle or notoriety of reporting it, felt it would devalue their daughters potential worth, many reasons. Some parents don't have their children's best interest at heart.


I find that action - or lack thereof - almost as despicable as that of those who actively covered up the abuse. There were some of those women who said their parents did not believe them. Why would you not believe your own child? Why would you not demand an investigation?


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

keenataz said:


> I never understood why in cases like this why are there other trials in other juridstictions?


Prosecutors like to justify their salaries.

They have the option of dismissing the charges, but by trying him it goes on his record and will play a part in future parole hearings.


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## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

Nsoitgoes said:


> I find that action - or lack thereof - almost as despicable as that of those who actively covered up the abuse. There were some of those women who said their parents did not believe them. Why would you not believe your own child? Why would you not demand an investigation?


I don't know how a parent would not believe if their child told them they were molested. There were many didn't didn't tell their parents at all, that's just as horrible, in my opinion.


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## Robotron (Mar 25, 2012)

In 2004 abuse was reported that a long cal police department. They dropped out he ball and didn’t look into it. Also federal time is served first then the state gets him. In the state here s first parole hearing that s at the 99 year point. Daughter is at Michigan State med school. And she is hot about this, a lot of people hurt and major distrust in her field now. She is on the side for one round to the head. If he lasts any time in prison he will suffer every day more pain than getting shot.


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## AggieChris (May 9, 2015)

What really got under my skin was the footage of him wiping away crocodile tears in court as the victim statements were presented. If those were real, I don’t believe they were in remorse for the pain he has caused but for the “suffering” he feels he will now endure in prison. 

At some point he will be unprotected and justice will be served. The way Dahmer went out would be rather appropriate in this instance.


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## IndyDave (Jul 17, 2017)

Irish Pixie said:


> I don't know how a parent would not believe if their child told them they were molested. There were many didn't didn't tell their parents at all, that's just as horrible, in my opinion.


I find the cases where the children didn't tell their parents particularly troubling. I wonder to what extent it was fear inspired by the perpetrator and to what extent it is the lack of a viable relationship with the parents in question. If children don't feel comfortable going to their parents when they are traumatized, the parents failed before the incident happened.

Sadly, I have no difficulty believing that these children would have had such an issue, especially considering that I just finished spending a large portion of my evening at the table in a local restaurant with a 17 year old girl who feels comfortable talking to me when she doesn't have the relationship with her parents that allows for talking to them. I am guessing that these children didn't have another trusted adult who would listen and believe them.


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## farmrbrown (Jun 25, 2012)

IndyDave said:


> I find the cases where the children didn't tell their parents particularly troubling. I wonder to what extent it was fear inspired by the perpetrator and to what extent it is the lack of a viable relationship with the parents in question. If children don't feel comfortable going to their parents when they are traumatized, the parents failed before the incident happened.
> 
> Sadly, I have no difficulty believing that these children would have had such an issue, especially considering that I just finished spending a large portion of my evening at the table in a local restaurant with a 17 year old girl who feels comfortable talking to me when she doesn't have the relationship with her parents that allows for talking to them. I am guessing that these children didn't have another trusted adult who would listen and believe them.


There's other reasons too that Nassar exploited.
If you are groomed to be a possible Olympic gold medalist from the time you can walk and this is your lifelong dream, how would a child (yes they were still children) handle the pressure of being perhaps the lone accuser of one of the people in charge of your future?
A powerful and influential person.
That's the same difficulty grown women face in the workforce.

That doesn't change the "right and wrong" of those situations but it explains how hard the decision is to make.


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## IndyDave (Jul 17, 2017)

farmrbrown said:


> There's other reasons too that Nassar exploited.
> If you are groomed to be a possible Olympic gold medalist from the time you can walk and this is your lifelong dream, how would a child (yes they were still children) handle the pressure of being perhaps the lone accuser of one of the people in charge of your future?
> A powerful and influential person.
> That's the same difficulty grown women face in the workforce.
> ...


No question about this. It is definitely part of the lifestyle. I was simply focusing on the reasons they wouldn't tell their parents in particular as opposed to standing against one of those people in general.


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## oneraddad (Jul 20, 2010)

Some girls said they thought it was just part of the treatment and were too naive to question it.


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## haypoint (Oct 4, 2006)

I've watched and listened to this closely. As with all things, hindsight is 20/20 and the devil is in the details.
I listened to a mother of a then 17 year old ballerina with a bad ankle sprain. The appointment took over an hour. Mom was in the room. Nasser was well liked, he was effective, everyone was focused on getting better and winning. After he worked on her ankle, including acupuncture, she was laying on the exam table with a towel over her. As mom stared out to windows, overlooking the beautiful MSU campus, Nasser discussed nerve manipulation on the pelvic floor, a commonly known procedure. Carefully, discretely, Nassar's hand went under the towel and he applied pressure from inside her. It was so carefully done and made to seem normal, that the girl did not tell her mother for two years.
You have a man that is doing fantastic work getting these people healed and competing on a world stage. He attended practices, he built friendships and he got these girls what they wanted, a path to scholarships, trip to the Olympics. Out of necessity, parents turned their children over to trainers, coaches and world famous physical therapists. Generally, these girls were self-motivated and didn't question anything that could get them a metal.
Anyone that has spent any amount of time with a high strung teenage girl, knows the natural emotional roller coaster. Sadly, those around these girls learn to ignore most of it. That Nasser was seen as a friend may have kept the girls quiet. That he had a long and successful practice made it easier to ignore the rare complaint.
The investigation of the complaints found nothing of importance. Somehow, I don't understand, this pressure point that requires penetration is an actual procedure. The investigators found no actual wrongdoing, turned in that report, but modified their own report with cautions to Nasser to avoid such allegations. Normal, reasonable requirements. Have another female in the room, parent or nurse, when with a female patient. Use latex gloves when touching a patient. Stuff like that. But now it looks like no one followed up on that and he continued.
The few complaints never got past low level trainers or coaching assistants. It was far from even the MSU Athletic Director, who doesn't;t even know Nasser. Sad that people can expect that the University president, with 40 years of stellar devotion to MSU, at various levels, should be held accountable.


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## Riverdale (Jan 20, 2008)

Lisa in WA said:


> Wonder how long he will last in prison.


A LONG LONG time, I hope


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## Riverdale (Jan 20, 2008)

alleyyooper said:


> Michigan doesn't have a death penally any longer. *Those in power tell us it is cheaper to feed and house them for life than frying them*. He also has to stand trial in Eaton county so there will be more court time and then jail time after that. Once he is transfured to a prison I doubt here in Michigan he will be in protective custody. The Ingum county judge did sound as if she was going to have it that way.
> Some thuink like he was no body special and he was no longer a doctor.
> 
> AL



Mi NEVER has had the DP


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## Riverdale (Jan 20, 2008)

Lisa in WA said:


> It does seem pointless. He will never be around kids again so why spend money or use resources?


equal rights


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## AmericanStand (Jul 29, 2014)

All of this seem to bring up the question of why children are even allowed in the olympics ?


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## Lisa in WA (Oct 11, 2004)

Riverdale said:


> equal rights


?


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## Lisa in WA (Oct 11, 2004)

From what I’ve experienced around some parents of girls in competitive sports, some of the parents lose sight of fact that they are their kids only real advocates and the protectors of their daughters and they abdicate this to coaches and the surrounding system because they get so caught up in having a WINNER.
I’ve seen parents turn a blind eye to filthy verbal abuse in competitive Irish step dancing and when I intervened, they thanked me because they felt too intimidated to do so themselves. I’ve seen parents allow terrified kids to be bullied by riding coaches into overfacing themselves and their horses over big jumps (even after one child literally was so frightened she threw herself off he horse and broke her arm). We opted out of gymnastics because of the asininity of so many gymnastics mothers. 
Many Parents need to get a life and stop living thru their talented kids.


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## IndyDave (Jul 17, 2017)

Lisa in WA said:


> From what I’ve experienced around some parents of girls in competitive sports, some of the parents lose sight of fact that they are their kids only real advocates and the protectors of their daughters and they abdicate this to coaches and the surrounding system because they get so caught up in having a WINNER.
> I’ve seen parents turn a blind eye to filthy verbal abuse in competitive Irish step dancing and when I intervened, they thanked me because they felt too intimidated to do so themselves. I’ve seen parents allow terrified kids to be bullied by riding coaches into overfacing themselves and their horses over big jumps (even after one child literally was so frightened she threw herself off he horse and broke her arm). We opted out of gymnastics because of the asininity of so many gymnastics mothers.
> Many Parents need to get a life and stop living thru their talented kids.


Absolutely. It can be a fine line between encouraging one's children to accomplish all they can accomplish and trying to experience that accomplishment vicariously, but it defies my understanding that parents can passively allow abuse in the name of pursuing a prize or a position.


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## Riverdale (Jan 20, 2008)

Lisa in WA said:


> ?


The ACLU will find a way. I have faith.


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## mmoetc (Oct 9, 2012)

AmericanStand said:


> All of this seem to bring up the question of why children are even allowed in the olympics ?


Contestants in senior level gymnastics events like the olympics must be 16 or turn 16 during the year of the event. It’s better than it was. 

But young girls don’t turn 16 and by some miracle become an Olympic gymnast. It takes years of training and work to do so. Move the age to 18 and what really changes? They’ll still start young but they’ll just have a couple of years more to train. That doesn’t solve the problems that occurred with Nassar or any of the other problems with youth sports.


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## alleyyooper (Apr 22, 2005)

*Michigan's death penalty history is unusual, as Michigan was the first English-speaking government in the world to abolish the death penalty for ordinary crimes. The Michigan State Legislature voted to do so on May 18, 1846, which has remained in law ever since.*

Treason remained a crime punishable by the death penalty in Michigan despite the 1847 abolition, but no one was ever executed under that law.
So it isn't true Michigan never had the death penalty.

. Al


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## Robotron (Mar 25, 2012)

Riverdale said:


> Mi NEVER has had the DP


Sorry but your wrong, we did but it was never used. 
*Michigan* became the first English-speaking territory in the world to abolish *capital punishment* in 1847. Treason remained a crime punishable by the *death penalty* in *Michigan* despite the 1847 abolition, but no one was ever executed under that law.


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## Riverdale (Jan 20, 2008)

Robotron said:


> Sorry but your wrong, we did but it was never used.
> *Michigan* became the first English-speaking territory in the world to abolish *capital punishment* in 1847. Treason remained a crime punishable by the *death penalty* in *Michigan* despite the 1847 abolition, but no one was ever executed under that law.



Treason is a federal crime, not state.  A murder on federal land in Michigan could still carry the death penalty.

From 1997

http://www.ourmidland.com/news/article/Death-Sentence-in-Michigan-Murder-7099882.php


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## Robotron (Mar 25, 2012)

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capital_punishment_in_Michigan

Read the link, times were different back through history.

https://www.legislature.mi.gov/(S(psh35mrglfd024a4v1rlef45))/documents/mcl/pdf/mcl-750-544.pdf
Apparently, there was a possible charge of treason against the state. Repealed in 1978.


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## haypoint (Oct 4, 2006)

This is a far more complex case than most imagine. It was not a case where 150 girls reported abuse and no one did anything. It isn't a case where parents were ignored.
It is a case where Nasser helped thousands of girls. He was their facebook friend. He was at their practices. They saw him as an important, helpful friend that could get them to the Olympics. When the trainers refused to let them eat, Nasser sneaked them food. There has been some talk that the pelvic pressure points he used are helpful and even ethical. Personally, I am skeptical about acupuncture and chiropractors. How do you know what is effective and what is the body's natural healing and how powerful is the belief that it is effective? When a doctor with decades of positive results says there is a pressure point on your pelvic floor and to be competitive, you need this treatment, you believe. You trust.
These girls live in an artificial environment. Barely dressed, handled by trainers, coaches and doctors.
Mothers were often in the examining rooms when Nasser was curing their injuries. I heard a mother say she was in the room when Nasser slipped his hand under the towel and penetrated her daughter. She didn't know for 2 years, until her daughter told her.
Nasser made these girls personal friends. They believed the stuff was medically necessary.
Out of the thousands of athletes and only a complaint or two, that never made it past a coach or trainer, eventually, MSU launched an investigation. They found no wrong doing. But they thought to avoid future concerns Nasser needed to be sure a parent or nurse was in the exam room and he needed to wear latex gloves. Their investigation satisfied, they never went back to see that he complied with the recommendations. The complaints were not taken seriously and even the victims down played the assaults. Nasser was everyone's friend.

It was only when the number of girls that were given this controversial procedure testified did the scores of girls come forward.


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## IndyDave (Jul 17, 2017)

haypoint said:


> This is a far more complex case than most imagine. It was not a case where 150 girls reported abuse and no one did anything. It isn't a case where parents were ignored.
> It is a case where Nasser helped thousands of girls. He was their facebook friend. He was at their practices. They saw him as an important, helpful friend that could get them to the Olympics. When the trainers refused to let them eat, Nasser sneaked them food. There has been some talk that the pelvic pressure points he used are helpful and even ethical. Personally, I am skeptical about acupuncture and chiropractors. How do you know what is effective and what is the body's natural healing and how powerful is the belief that it is effective? When a doctor with decades of positive results says there is a pressure point on your pelvic floor and to be competitive, you need this treatment, you believe. You trust.
> These girls live in an artificial environment. Barely dressed, handled by trainers, coaches and doctors.
> Mothers were often in the examining rooms when Nasser was curing their injuries. I heard a mother say she was in the room when Nasser slipped his hand under the towel and penetrated her daughter. She didn't know for 2 years, until her daughter told her.
> ...


The peculiarities of the situation and Nassar's skill at, well, winning friends and influencing people conspired to form a complex and deep web, but the, as you so aptly put it, artificial environment and Nassar's smooth operating don't change the reality of what it was or the diabolical nature of using this unusual access to young girls for nefarious purposes.


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## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

IndyDave said:


> The peculiarities of the situation and Nassar's skill at, well, winning friends and influencing people conspired to form a complex and deep web, but the, as you so aptly put it, artificial environment and Nassar's smooth operating don't change the reality of what it was or the diabolical nature of using this unusual access to young girls for nefarious purposes.


Absolutely. Anyone that could possibly support Nassar, in any way, should be classified as subhuman.


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## oneraddad (Jul 20, 2010)

haypoint said:


> This is a far more complex case than most imagine. It was not a case where 150 girls reported abuse and no one did anything. It isn't a case where parents were ignored.
> It is a case where Nasser helped thousands of girls. He was their facebook friend. He was at their practices. They saw him as an important, helpful friend that could get them to the Olympics. When the trainers refused to let them eat, Nasser sneaked them food. There has been some talk that the pelvic pressure points he used are helpful and even ethical. Personally, I am skeptical about acupuncture and chiropractors. How do you know what is effective and what is the body's natural healing and how powerful is the belief that it is effective? When a doctor with decades of positive results says there is a pressure point on your pelvic floor and to be competitive, you need this treatment, you believe. You trust.
> These girls live in an artificial environment. Barely dressed, handled by trainers, coaches and doctors.
> Mothers were often in the examining rooms when Nasser was curing their injuries. I heard a mother say she was in the room when Nasser slipped his hand under the towel and penetrated her daughter. She didn't know for 2 years, until her daughter told her.
> ...



I think you need a prostate massage from bubba, with latex gloves of course.


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## IndyDave (Jul 17, 2017)

Irish Pixie said:


> Absolutely. Anyone that could possibly support Nassar, in any way, should be classified as subhuman.


I agree, but I do wish to avoid misunderstanding and ambiguity with my response by expanding on the point that I agree with the point that Haypoint is making that this situation is not patently obvious like the average crime such that there was much more room for him to hide in the shadows without getting caught. I share with Haypoint having worked as a correctional officer, which, of course, much like the Olympic microcosm, is a world unto itself, and it does shape your thinking and your realization that not all wrong-doing is readily apparent. That said, I wish to avoid the appearance of implying that I believe that he is supporting or making any excuse for Nassar, just pointing out that there was much room for those around Nassar to fail to realize what was happening along with a golden opportunity for a skillful pervert to exploit.


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## IndyDave (Jul 17, 2017)

oneraddad said:


> I think you need a prostate massage from bubba, with latex gloves of course.


Again, I am satisfied that Haypoint is addressing how it was possible for this to happen, not suggesting that anything about it was acceptable.


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## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

IndyDave said:


> I agree, but I do wish to avoid misunderstanding and ambiguity with my response by expanding on the point that I agree with the point that Haypoint is making that this situation is not patently obvious like the average crime such that there was much more room for him to hide in the shadows without getting caught. I share with Haypoint having worked as a correctional officer, which, of course, much like the Olympic microcosm, is a world unto itself, and it does shape your thinking and your realization that not all wrong-doing is readily apparent. That said, I wish to avoid the appearance of implying that I believe that he is supporting or making any excuse for Nassar, just pointing out that there was much room for those around Nassar to fail to realize what was happening along with a golden opportunity for a skillful pervert to exploit.


My husband was a psychiatric hospital correction officer in the NY prison system, and is not subhuman.


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## IndyDave (Jul 17, 2017)

Irish Pixie said:


> My husband was a psychiatric hospital correction officer in the NY prison system, and is not subhuman.


I am sorry for being ambiguous. I meant that it affects your thinking in terms of it being easier to take a detached perspective that most people haven't been conditioned to take, not that it degrades the quality of a person's own morality and humanity. I was focusing on Haypoint using that detached perspective to address how Nasar managed to get away with this for so long (and it not necessarily being as obvious to those involved in the situation as it may seem) and that not standing in evidence that he condones it.


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## IndyDave (Jul 17, 2017)

I suppose I should also address the point that this detached perspective one can develop is a tool for understanding the facts of the matter, not a principle by which to live. I see it as a matter of setting aside the barbarism of a crime to focus on the methods by which it was successfully perpetrated and the circumstances which allowed it to happen.


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## farmrbrown (Jun 25, 2012)

IndyDave said:


> I share with Haypoint having worked as a correctional officer, which, of course, much like the Olympic microcosm, is a world unto itself, and it does shape your thinking and your realization that not all wrong-doing is readily apparent.





Irish Pixie said:


> My husband was a psychiatric hospital correction officer in the NY prison system, and is not subhuman.





oneraddad said:


> I think you need a prostate massage from bubba, with latex gloves of course.


I think anyone in corrections has had at least cursory experience with latex gloves and examinations..............


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## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

IndyDave said:


> I am sorry for being ambiguous. I meant that it affects your thinking in terms of it being easier to take a detached perspective that most people haven't been conditioned to take, not that it degrades the quality of a person's own morality and humanity. I was focusing on Haypoint using that detached perspective to address how Nasar managed to get away with this for so long (and it not necessarily being as obvious to those involved in the situation as it may seem) and that not standing in evidence that he condones it.





IndyDave said:


> I suppose I should also address the point that this detached perspective one can develop is a tool for understanding the facts of the matter, not a principle by which to live. I see it as a matter of setting aside the barbarism of a crime to focus on the methods by which it was successfully perpetrated and the circumstances which allowed it to happen.


I understand completely what you're saying, and don't find you at all subhuman for your view.


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## oneraddad (Jul 20, 2010)

farmrbrown said:


> I think anyone in corrections has had at least cursory experience with latex gloves and examinations..............



Do you think he ever gave someone an exam and they enjoyed it.


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## Jolly (Jan 8, 2004)

Haypoint makes some very good points about the complexity of the whole situation and why this was not some blatant act that was just overlooked by everybody...And no, I would put more emphasis on more recent acts than those that happened 20 years ago.

If we are going to keep this guy in prison the rest of his life, I see no reason not to get some use out of him. Prisons are always in a bind for qualified medical personnel. Put him to work and work him everyday. Save the state some money.


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## AmericanStand (Jul 29, 2014)

Irish Pixie said:


> Absolutely. Anyone that could possibly support Nassar, in any way, should be classified as subhuman.


 I see, isn’t that the logic the Nazi’s used to justify Their treatment of the Jews,Gypsies and others ?
I have to wonder what’s wrong when you can’t support the good the man has done while recognizing the evil in him. 
Last I heard no one is perfect.


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## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

AmericanStand said:


> I see, isn’t that the logic the Nazi’s used to justify Their treatment of the Jews,Gypsies and others ?
> I have to wonder what’s wrong when you can’t support the good the man has done while recognizing the evil in him.
> Last I heard no one is perfect.


Are you stating that there is anything that man could have done to somehow offset that he is a pedophile that molested hundreds of children? Please explain.

Godwin's Law has attached so your first statement is ignored.


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## farmrbrown (Jun 25, 2012)

oneraddad said:


> Do you think he ever gave someone an exam and they enjoyed it.


I try not to get between two people in a situation like that, if ya know what I mean.


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## happy hermits (Jan 2, 2018)

A slow death would be what is order for this slime ball. Everyone knows he is not the only one who should of been charged. Shame on all who knew and did nothing How do they sleep at night.


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## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

oneraddad said:


> Do you think he ever gave someone an exam and they enjoyed it.


Could be the other poster enjoys such things, it's not for me but I won't judge him...


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## haypoint (Oct 4, 2006)

Irish Pixie said:


> Absolutely. Anyone that could possibly support Nassar, in any way, should be classified as subhuman.


As has been said, I was in no way supporting Nasser. But the question of the day seemed to be, " How could people ignore this evil?" In a very broad way, few knew. Those that did question or complain did so in a minor way that was easily dismissed by both parents and staff.
Michigan State University is taking a lot of heat for this, but much of the abuse took place at a Gymnastic Ranch in Texas. People are expecting that the University President should have known about this abuse. But even the MSU Athletic Director didn't even know who Nasser was until recently. The mobs chant, " Everyone should be fired, from the top down." with no realization that good people that had no way or expectation to know what was going on will be hurt.

If you want to punish innocent administrators for things they had no way of knowing about, what is your punishment to the parents that didn't believe their child? To the parents that accepted this abuse? To the doctors that did the investigation and found nothing wrong?

It often costs more to care for a prisoner than it does to send a person to college. The reason is because at prison every aspect of their life is watched, monitored. At college, students aren't watched all the time. But there is evil at both places.

Sorry that my earlier explanation wasn't clear to IP, and somehow took it as if I were siding with Nasser. That isn't at all what I said.


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## wr (Aug 10, 2003)

haypoint said:


> As has been said, I was in no way supporting Nasser. But the question of the day seemed to be, " How could people ignore this evil?" In a very broad way, few knew. Those that did question or complain did so in a minor way that was easily dismissed by both parents and staff.
> Michigan State University is taking a lot of heat for this, but much of the abuse took place at a Gymnastic Ranch in Texas. People are expecting that the University President should have known about this abuse. But even the MSU Athletic Director didn't even know who Nasser was until recently. The mobs chant, " Everyone should be fired, from the top down." with no realization that good people that had no way or expectation to know what was going on will be hurt.
> 
> If you want to punish innocent administrators for things they had no way of knowing about, what is your punishment to the parents that didn't believe their child? To the parents that accepted this abuse? To the doctors that did the investigation and found nothing wrong?
> ...


I meant to comment on your previous post and the the thing that stood out to me was how his behavior so closely mirrors that of most pedophiles and abusers and when you factor in the highly regimented lives of those athletes, who are expected not to question the steps required to achieve at the highest levels, it's almost an open season for a guy like this. 

Graham James managed to sexually abuse young hockely players for many years and the pattern was much the same and he destroyed many lives along the way. 

I think you'll find that as time goes on, without counselling, many of these girls have some serious hurdles in their future.


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## haypoint (Oct 4, 2006)

I'm not far from East Lansing, the home of MSU. While much abuse took place in Texas and other locations, it has rocked the Spartans. The University President has spent her 40 years career insuring women had a voice and opportunity at MSU. There is a huge mentoring program. Everyone takes pride in insuring the campus is a safe place.
Everyone was, " How could this happen here?". Over and over, we asked, " Where were the parents?" or "Why didn't any authorities do anything?" The Detroit Radio Station AM760 has followed this. Several people involved with this have been interviewed on the radio. Just like any parent teenager relationship, there is a lot parents don't know. But I was stunned to hear a mother say that Nasser molested her daughter while she (mother) stood in the examination room and she didn't know it happened, until her daughter told her two years later.
The Public is rightfully angry, but I don't see how firing employees that had no knowledge or any way to have knowledge of what Nasser did solves anything. I don't see how raising tuition to pay tens of millions to these victims solves anything either.
Nasser loses his freedom and the world is a safer place. Everyone that knew and did nothing should be punished in some way. But I don't see this rabid mob mentality that a few dozen people need their careers ruined just because they should have known what they didn't know, is crazy. Anyone that knew and did nothing should be punished sounds fair, but what about the girls that knew and did nothing to protect themselves or others? There are no easy answers. In the end we are left with a lot of anger and regrets.


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