# Has anyone else seen the 'informative' muslim billboards?



## Immaculate Sublimity (Apr 30, 2003)

Driving down I-75 in Michigan yesterday and noticed a billboard offering to teach about the peaceable religion of Islam. just go to GainPeace - To educate the general public about Islam . Why do I find this creepy?


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## Smalltowngirl (Mar 28, 2010)

I don't know why you find it creepy; maybe fear of the unknown or trepidation due to stereotypes of the Muslim people? I think anytime a person/community can learn more about it's residents and their beliefs, the less community strife there will be.

I don't see anyone getting the 'creepy vibe' when there's billboards put up by the Catholic concerning abortion information or offers of information about the LDS religion.

If one is not interested, just don't sign up for the classes. Personally, if I lived in an area with a high Muslim population & didn't know anything about my neighbors beliefs, I might be tempted to go see what it is all about.


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## Tiempo (May 22, 2008)

> Why do I find this creepy?


Because of your own prejudices, justified or not.


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## 7thswan (Nov 18, 2008)

Probably because you have a Gift that some have. Is it anywhere near the Al Qida traing camp down there?


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## FourDeuce (Jun 27, 2002)

Hey, even the Nazis weren't ALL bad. :viking:
The whole situation with Muslims reminds me of the Star Trek Next Generation episode where they were discussing how to deal with the Borg. They developed a weapon that could wipe out the entire Borg population and they were discussing whether it would be ethical to use it or not.


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## Ozarks Tom (May 27, 2011)

I hear there are quite a few openings in their suicide vest making class.


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## zant (Dec 1, 2005)

Possibly because you know the islamofascists have committed over 14,00 acts of terror since 1993 resulting in the deaths/injuries of 100s of thousands people......But the bigot haters say-watch out for christians


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## ET1 SS (Oct 22, 2005)

Anyone who finds they must convince you they are 'peaceful', well ...

Like when realtors or lawyers go on and on about how 'ethical' they are, and the laws requiring that they take courses to remind them what ethics are. I understand the need for the courses, but the fact that legislators enacted a law pretty much tells you there is a need for the courses. Advertising that you are now 'ethical' tells me your not.

So it is with Islam. I open my eyes and I see news articles about the things that Muslims do. Telling me that they are peaceful, goes against their actions.


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## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

I don't judge all Christians by their religion so I will not judge all Muslims by their religion. Many people of many religions have used their religions as a reason to hurt others.

These billboards are no different from the pamphlets, billboards and books that other religion make available. Nothing creepy but in your own mind.


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## FourDeuce (Jun 27, 2002)

"I don't judge all Christians by their religion so I will not judge all Muslims by their religion."

I hope you don't judge all criminals by their lawbreaking activities either.:dance:


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## J.T.M. (Mar 2, 2008)

painterswife said:


> I don't judge all Christians by their religion so I will not judge all Muslims by their religion. Many people of many religions have used their religions as a reason to hurt others.
> 
> These billboards are no different from the pamphlets, billboards and books that other religion make available. Nothing creepy but in your own mind.


This ^^^^^^ for the win .


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## redwall (Mar 10, 2007)

curiosity has the Muslims racked up more bombings then the Christians yet? i know that in 2009 the Muslims were the lesser of two evils but they were catching up fast with the protestants.


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## summerdaze (Jun 11, 2009)

I can understand how you feel, but I think the creep factor will come for me when I hear about how school children MUST now take "Muslim Studies" 101 or some such. 

Personaly, if I could go a DAY and not hear one thing about Muslims or Islam, it would be alright by me.


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## willow_girl (Dec 7, 2002)

> Personaly, if I could go a DAY and not hear one thing about Muslims or Islam, it would be alright by me.


I feel that way about Christianity, too.


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## unregistered168043 (Sep 9, 2011)

It might be creepy when you consider that 25 years ago most people in the USA had no idea what the word Muslim meant, never met a muslim, and had no reason to fear them. Fast forward a mere 25 years and they are all over the news, they seem to be everywhere, and putting up billboards now.

I don't think it is wrong to associate a group who commits acts of terror with terror. I might be prejudice because I remember the muslims in NJ dancing on the roof tops when 9/11 happened...its true I might be PREJUDICED because of that, but I'm not WRONG.


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## Tricky Grama (Oct 7, 2006)

I kinda like this quote: "All I need to know about Islam I learned on September 11th."


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## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

Tricky Grama said:


> I kinda like this quote: "All I need to know about Islam I learned on September 11th."


I guess you are fine with judging all Christians by the actions of the Westboro Baptist Church.
I guess I should judge all Grama's by the things you post, or better yet all women.


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## Haven (Aug 16, 2010)

It's amazing how many people here have been brainwashed by their own political party and church. I lived and worked near Dearborn with tons of Muslims for years, and it was NO DIFFERENT than living with any other group of human beings.

The bigots around here have had zero life experience with these people and refuse to accept the fact that they are gleefully embracing the brainwashing that has been taking place over the last few years due to the upcoming *political election.*


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## Haven (Aug 16, 2010)

Tricky Grama said:


> I kinda like this quote: "All I need to know about Islam I learned on September 11th."


All I learned about Christianity would take up too much room on this forum to post. To be fair and balanced, you should list all of the atrocities of all religions (including your own), committed over thousands of years into the present day, unless of course you just want to post biased, one-sided information while singling out just one group.


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## Tricky Grama (Oct 7, 2006)

painterswife said:


> I guess you are fine with judging all Christians by the actions of the Westboro Baptist Church.
> I guess I should judge all Grama's by the things you post, or better yet all women.


OMG! The westboros have murdered thousands??? I had no idea! Didn't even know they knew how to fly planes! Or bomb stuff...

Most here would ask for 'link'...me, I just wanna ask how ya are w/free speech?
Westboros are despicable excuses for humans but here we mostly agree they have a right to free speech.

We mostly agree that westboro & Isalm in the same sentence is nutty.

If ALL women or all g'mas were alike we'd be in a boring world, but carry on.

I'll even say I'm sorry you're unaware of what this administration does & are offended by anyone who publishes some facts about it-just in case you're about to go off on my posts some more.


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## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

Tricky Grama said:


> OMG!
> 
> I'll even say I'm sorry you're unaware of what this administration does & are offended by anyone who publishes some facts about it-just in case you're about to go off on my posts some more.


There you go again, misdirecting by posting something that has nothing top do with the post I responded to.

I know you don't get it so I will explain it in hopes that you might. Judging a whole religion by the actions of one group is despicable and bigoted. Just as it would be for me to judge your husband by something you do just because he is part of your family. I can not say it any plainer.


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## Tricky Grama (Oct 7, 2006)

Haven said:


> All I learned about Christianity would take up too much room on this forum to post. To be fair and balanced, you should list all of the atrocities of all religions (including your own), committed over thousands of years into the present day, unless of course you just want to post biased, one-sided information while singling out just one group.


Actually, most here are just concerned about ..oh...maybe the last few decades since the atrocities of Islam began the crusades, for instance, & most here were not around then.

So for the sake of 'fair & balanced' even if we listed everything from 100s of yrs ago...Islam would win for most atrocities.

But I know that doesn't fit w/your Christain bash.

Plenty was done in the name of 'religion' centuries ago. And there is a political theocratic movement-Islam-that still lives in those times.

Maybe you could list the beheadings christains have done to innocent folks say...in the last few decades. B/c I still have the horrors ingrained in my brain of some on videos of innocent people & even our own journalist, not too many yrs ago.


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## Haven (Aug 16, 2010)

Tricky, I would encourage you to post about your personal experience living with Muslims. What you read on the internet and Fox "news" doesn't count, btw.


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## Tricky Grama (Oct 7, 2006)

painterswife said:


> There you go again, misdirecting by posting something that has nothing top do with the post I responded to.
> 
> I know you don't get it so I will explain it in hopes that you might. Judging a whole religion by the actions of one group is despicable and bigoted. Just as it would be for me to judge your husband by something you do just because he is part of your family. I can not say it any plainer.


I see, misdirecting???

What was THIS??: 
Painterswife said: "I guess I should judge all Grama's by the things you post, or better yet all women."

Bwhahaha.


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## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

Tricky Grama said:


> I see, misdirecting???
> 
> What was THIS??:
> Painterswife said: "I guess I should judge all Grama's by the things you post, or better yet all women."
> ...


I see it is still not clear. You judged a whole religion by an act. I was showing you examples of what I meant. I give up you will never see this, you will never see the whole picture.


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## Tricky Grama (Oct 7, 2006)

My expericance w/muslims is limited to a few I cared for in a clinic as well as neighbors.

I have had no experience w/radicals, of which there's millions. May I suggest you have not either.

To suggest we are all lying or misinformed b/c we've seen the WTCs fall or the Cole incident or the 1st WTD bombings or the Libya murders or the beheadings is absolutely amazing.


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## Tricky Grama (Oct 7, 2006)

painterswife said:


> I see it is still not clear. You judged a whole religion by an act. I was showing you examples of what I meant. I give up you will never see this, you will never see the whole picture.



I see it very clearly. You'd rather attack PERSONALLY than ideas or statements.

What % of muslims do you consider radicals? 1%? 5%? Then do the math.
How many 'acts' are we talking about here? 
Should we be vigilant? 
Should we treat the entire world population of muslims the same?


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## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

Tricky Grama said:


> What % of muslims do you consider radicals? 1%? 5%? Then do the math.
> How many 'acts' are we talking about here?
> Should we be vigilant?
> Should we treat the entire world population of muslims the same?


Should we treat all women as meth addicts because a certain percentage are? Same premise.


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## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

Tricky Grama said:


> I see it very clearly. You'd rather attack PERSONALLY than ideas or statements.


Be clear! I am attacking the idea that you or anyone should judge a whole group by the actions of a few.


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## zant (Dec 1, 2005)

Lenin had his useful idiots,the islamofascists have theirs.......If after 14,000 terror attacks and 100s of thousands dead or injured you still want to believe the "religion of peace" crap....I would suggest a frontal lobomoty so you can ignore all reality of MODERN TIMES....I know libs like to live in the past but.....


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## Tricky Grama (Oct 7, 2006)

painterswife said:


> Should we treat all women as meth addicts because a certain percentage are? Same premise.


The muslims who flew planes into the WTC were peacefully living amongst us, no?
How about the subway bombers in GB? Peacefully living amonst the rest of London.
How about the shoe bomber? How about the underwear bomber?
I can only say the muslim folks in my community seem wonderful. Probably there are lots in MI who are too.
Problem is, many people are wary...you say its not justified...
But there IS a %...just sayin'.


And the meth analogy is strange...how did you ever think that was a good analogy? Do you know the % of women who are addicts? Are they violent? Do they behead innocents?


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## Tricky Grama (Oct 7, 2006)

painterswife said:


> Be clear! I am attacking the idea that you or anyone should judge a whole group by the actions of a few.


Ok, guess I was thrown off by your stab at my posts...


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## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

Tricky Grama said:


> Ok, guess I was thrown off by your stab at my posts...


I can not judge you because I don't know you but I can disagree with the ideas and opinions you post.

An analogy does not need to reflect violence to show what I mean. It is just to show that judging any group by the actions of one member of the group( violent or non violent, good or bad) is by definition bigoted.


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## Tricky Grama (Oct 7, 2006)

I didn't write this, however I do find it food for thought. 
I am not sure of the % of muslims the quote is speaking about; nor do I know if it is only in reference to burnings, beheadings, unrest, infighting, or declarations of Mohammed's wrong-doings. 
I merely am posting it for those who like to think...

THE MUSLIMS ARE NOT HAPPY!

They're not happy in Gaza ..
They're not happy in Egypt ..
They're not happy in Libya ..
They're not happy in Morocco ..
They're not happy in Iran ..
They're not happy in Iraq ..
They're not happy in Yemen ..
They're not happy in Afghanistan ..
They're not happy in Pakistan ..
They're not happy in Syria ..
They're not happy in Lebanon ..

SO, WHERE ARE THEY HAPPY?

They're happy in Australia .
They're happy in Canada .
They're happy in England ..
They're happy in France ..
They're happy in Italy ..
They're happy in Germany ..
They're happy in Sweden ..
They're happy in the USA ..
They're happy in Norway ..
They're happy in Holland .
They're happy in Denmark .

Basically, they're happy in every country that is not Muslim
and unhappy in every country that is!

AND WHO DO THEY BLAME?

Not Islam.
Not their leadership.
Not themselves.

THEY BLAME THE COUNTRIES THEY ARE HAPPY IN!

AND THEN; They want to change those countries to be like....

THE COUNTRY THEY CAME FROM WHERE THEY WERE UNHAPPY!


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## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

Tricky Grama said:


> I didn't write this, however I do find it food for thought.
> I am not sure of the % of muslims the quote is speaking about; nor do I know if it is only in reference to burnings, beheadings, unrest, infighting, or declarations of Mohammed's wrong-doings.
> I merely am posting it for those who like to think...
> 
> THE MUSLIMS ARE NOT HAPPY!


Someone's opinion, not facts, sweeping assumptions. Those who like to think, think for themselves.


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## jaredI (Aug 6, 2011)

The Problem, justified or not, is that we KNOW the leadership of most (if not all) Muslim countries hates us, we KNOW there are many radicals in the Muslim communities around the world that hate us, we KNOW most of the terrorist acts in the last 20 years have been carried out by people with a Muslim background who hate us, BEING LEARY OF MUSLIMS IMO is completely justified.
This does not mean they are all bad, just as a few child molesting priests, doesn't mean all priest molest children. 
Growing up I was taught "actions speak louder then words", I believe this holds true today. So by in large the Muslim actions around the world imply they are dangerous despite what they say. This in no way means all Muslims are bad, but it does give cause to be cautious around/with them.


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## beowoulf90 (Jan 13, 2004)

Yup, Muslims are so dang peaceful and loving, they shot 3 girls today for one of them speaking out about peace in the past..

Shooting teenage girls is not my idea of peaceful.. But maybe I'm wrong.. If these so called peaceful muslims would get together and tear down AQ then maybe we could talk. But as long as they "silently" support AQ and the radicals, there is no proof they believe in peace..


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## Tricky Grama (Oct 7, 2006)

jaredI said:


> The Problem, justified or not, is that we KNOW the leadership of most (if not all) Muslim countries hates us, we KNOW there are many radicals in the Muslim communities around the world that hate us, we KNOW most of the terrorist acts in the last 20 years have been carried out by people with a Muslim background who hate us, BEING LEARY OF MUSLIMS IMO is completely justified.
> This does not mean they are all bad, just as a few child molesting priests, doesn't mean all priest molest children.
> Growing up I was taught "actions speak louder then words", I believe this holds true today. So by in large the Muslim actions around the world imply they are dangerous despite what they say. This in no way means all Muslims are bad, but it does give cause to be cautious around/with them.


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## Tricky Grama (Oct 7, 2006)

beowoulf90 said:


> Yup, Muslims are so dang peaceful and loving, they shot 3 girls today for one of them speaking out about peace in the past..
> 
> Shooting teenage girls is not my idea of peaceful.. But maybe I'm wrong.. If these so called peaceful muslims would get together and tear down AQ then maybe we could talk. But as long as they "silently" support AQ and the radicals, there is no proof they believe in peace..


Last yr in a suburb hear us a man killed his two beautiful teen daughters b/c they spoke to boys.


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## Ozarks Tom (May 27, 2011)

The debate raging between the "radical" and the "moderate" muslims seems to be very quiet. You can have passive muslims (don't make waves), but islam is not a passive religion.

You might have noticed the spokesmen for the major muslim organizations will come out with statements denouncing violence against innocent civilians. Problem is, Jews and Christians aren't innocent in their eyes, or in their book.


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## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

Tricky Grama said:


> Last yr in a suburb hear us a man killed his two beautiful teen daughters b/c they spoke to boys.


For every story like that I can post one where someone starved their kids to death, beat them to death, shot their wife, drowned their kids, killed their parents. There are bad people in every religion.


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## Ozarks Tom (May 27, 2011)

PW, those folks you site who "starved their kids to death, beat them do death, shot their wife, drowned their kids, killed their parents" didn't do it because their religion told them to. Honor killings, genital mutilation, bombing, beheadings are directly attributable to islam, and done in it's name.

Nice try though.


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## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

Ozarks Tom said:


> PW, those folks you site who "starved their kids to death, beat them do death, shot their wife, drowned their kids, killed their parents" didn't do it because their religion told them to. Honor killings, genital mutilation, bombing, beheadings are directly attributable to islam, and done in it's name.
> 
> Nice try though.


It really does not matter what justification they use it all results in the same bad situation. Again to tar everyone of any religion, color, creed, sex, location or hair color with the crimes of others that share those same traits is wrong. Judge each individual on their own actions not on those of others.


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## Marshloft (Mar 24, 2008)

I've noticed something in every thread and post having to do with muslims.
Tell me if I'm wrong.
First,,, help me understand fully how the muslim faith treat their women.
I'm sure you all know more than I do.
But,, if I was a woman,,, I'd fight their beliefs tooth and nail.
What about womens rights?? We are in america are we not?
OK,,, what I've noticed,,, is that it is mostly women who argue for the muslims right to their religeon.
No regards to how that faith treats their women at all.
I'm pretty sure alot of women fought long and hard for womens right here in america, and I'm proud of them. I'm sorry it took so long,, I wasn't alive back then.
But,, good grief,, what about the women that come to america from another country,,, will you not fight for their rights as well?
I'm not sure why the men came here to america,,, maybe to get away from being forced to live a certain way?
But the women,, still have to live as they always have.
Any thoughts?
GH


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## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

Marshloft said:


> I've noticed something in every thread and post having to do with muslims.
> Tell me if I'm wrong.
> First,,, help me understand fully how the muslim faith treat their women.
> I'm sure you all know more than I do.
> ...


We fight for their rights but we have no say in how they choose to live their lives unless what they choose to hurts others. That is the whole point of having a right. It is up to the individual to chose to use it or not.


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## wendle (Feb 22, 2006)

As their numbers grow, so will their influence on American laws and ways. Someday there might be a stoning in your hometown. 


Muslim Statistics (Shari'ah) - WikiIslam

The use of the death penalty to implement the Sharia, Islamic law, continues to increase year by year: in 2010 there were at least 714 executions, against 658 in 2009 and around 585 in the previous year, in 13 countries with a Muslim majority, many of which ordered by religious tribunals.


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## pcwerk (Sep 2, 2003)

i know several muslims and all of them are good people who think the "jihadists" are crazy and give islam a bad name. the ones that do all these horrendous things are NOT good muslims they are BAD muslims. just like all the christians behind bars in this country are BAD christians not good ones. if the press reported everyones religion on every crime report i dare say you would be hearing far more about christian evildoers than muslim ones...


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## davel745 (Feb 2, 2009)

I am no expert by any means but isn't Sheria law a real problem to most of us here. It seem so harsh to me, they can stone you for getting raped. Or how about killing your children because they want to have a relation with an infidel. These are a few of the things that give me pause about Muslims. It seems so non American to me.


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## Haven (Aug 16, 2010)

A good friend left the amish 60 years ago and now drives transport for them. He said a local amish family once had a small daughter that was badly injured, and they basically propped her up next to a tree and left her to die with no medical help. Is someone going to start an amish religion bashing thread next? Probably not, since what goes on in that community is kept hushed...and they aren't Muslim...


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## Haven (Aug 16, 2010)

Marshloft said:


> I've noticed something in every thread and post having to do with muslims.
> Tell me if I'm wrong.
> First,,, help me understand fully how the muslim faith treat their women.
> I'm sure you all know more than I do.
> ...


I have had 2 very good female friends who dated/married Muslim men over the years and they were both treated fine, just like any other normal US women. The people posting this religious hate online have no personal close personal experience with people from other cultures and have nothing better to do than cross post propaganda they read on the web.


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## Tricky Grama (Oct 7, 2006)

painterswife said:


> For every story like that I can post one where someone starved their kids to death, beat them to death, shot their wife, drowned their kids, killed their parents. There are bad people in every religion.


Ok, I'll challenge you one that. Are these horrible killings of christain children/wives due to the parents religion? Are they "honor killings"? Are they done b/c their prophet says to do it?
Post ONE. B/c many of you are NOT getting what we're speaking of.

Oh, hey, Tom, you said it better than I could, shouda read further.


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## Tricky Grama (Oct 7, 2006)

painterswife said:


> It really does not matter what justification they use it all results in the same bad situation. Again to tar everyone of any religion, color, creed, sex, location or hair color with the crimes of others that share those same traits is wrong. Judge each individual on their own actions not on those of others.


Yup, didn't think you understood.
So by your justificaion, we shouldn't do anything or be concerned about war b/c there's more killed on our hiways every year. Far less in a war.


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## Tricky Grama (Oct 7, 2006)

Haven said:


> I have had 2 very good female friends who dated/married Muslim men over the years and they were both treated fine, just like any other normal US women. The people posting this religious hate online have no personal close personal experience with people from other cultures and have nothing better to do than cross post propaganda they read on the web.


Wow, that changes EVERYTHING. Thanks so much for your study of 2.


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## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

Tricky Grama said:


> Yup, didn't think you understood.
> So by your justificaion, we shouldn't do anything or be concerned about war b/c there's more killed on our hiways every year. Far less in a war.


Misdirecting again! I never said that.

I said and will say it again, you do not judge every individual in a group by the actions of one. It is a simple enough statement.


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## beowoulf90 (Jan 13, 2004)

painterswife said:


> It really does not matter what justification they use it all results in the same bad situation. Again to tar everyone of any religion, color, creed, sex, location or hair color with the crimes of others that share those same traits is wrong. Judge each individual on their own actions not on those of others.


Yes it does matter what justification they use..

If a person shoots someone in self defense, it is different then a person shooting someone because of greed, hate, religion etc.. both result in the same thing, but one is justified and one isn't..

Muslims kill out of religion and hate. It doesn't matter what anyone says or does to them contrary to their views.. 

You can treat them with respect and love, and if their religion calls for them to kill or lie to you they will do it without hesitation..

Sorry I for one can't trust folks like that and will treat them accordingly to their actions..

So how do you negotiate with those that will lie to you and kill you no matter what agreements you make with them?

You don't!


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## puddlejumper007 (Jan 12, 2008)

7thswan said:


> Probably because you have a Gift that some have. Is it anywhere near the Al Qida traing camp down there?


ok where is that camp...i need to know as i live in Mich. :grump:


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## redwall (Mar 10, 2007)

what do you say about slavery? the bible says its fine to own another person and to sell them and buy them. it also talks about stoning people to death for being a prostitute and killing rape victims if no one hears them scream in the city. any one can cherry pick from a holy book that has 2000 years of history. have you read their holly book? i have its like reading the old testament.


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## JeffreyD (Dec 27, 2006)

Haven said:


> Tricky, I would encourage you to post about your personal experience living with Muslims. What you read on the internet and Fox "news" doesn't count, btw.


I worked for a Muslim family for 6 years does that count? I can tell you from first hand experience that they are NOT the peace loving, tolerant religion they want to portray themselves as! Talk about intolerant biggots, that is being kind! I quit the day one of the sons told a co-worker that we were just slaves and should be treated as such. I sued them for back pay because, as a manager if I worked overtime, no extra pay. But they would deduct pay if I missed ANY work time at all! That was illegal and they knew it, but did it anyway. They had to pay me over $25,000! I was the 18 employee to sue them and win. Does this count as an experience? The old man(owner) was an Imam and he should set an example. He did. If you weren't a Muslim, you were a pile of dog poo! Those were his exact words and he used to tell his employee that ALL the time.


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## JeffreyD (Dec 27, 2006)

redwall said:


> what do you say about slavery? the bible says its fine to own another person and to sell them and buy them. it also talks about stoning people to death for being a prostitute and killing rape victims if no one hears them scream in the city. any one can cherry pick from a holy book that has 2000 years of history. have you read their holly book? i have its like reading the old testament.


Are these things being done today, by Christians? They are by Muslims. Muslims are soo peaceful and tolerant they destroyed Buddhist temples a few days a go, shot 3 little girls, killes hundreds of others. That's just in the last week or so! Peaceful, tolerant, really?


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## Haven (Aug 16, 2010)

JeffreyD said:


> I worked for a Muslim family for 6 years does that count? I can tell you from first hand experience that they are NOT the peace loving, tolerant religion they want to portray themselves as! Talk about intolerant biggots, that is being kind! I quit the day one of the sons told a co-worker that we were just slaves and should be treated as such. I sued them for back pay because, as a manager if I worked overtime, no extra pay. But they would deduct pay if I missed ANY work time at all! That was illegal and they knew it, but did it anyway. They had to pay me over $25,000! I was the 18 employee to sue them and win. Does this count as an experience? The old man(owner) was an Imam and he should set an example. He did. If you weren't a Muslim, you were a pile of dog poo! Those were his exact words and he used to tell his employee that ALL the time.


Where is Tricky to say "thanks for your study of 1?"


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## Haven (Aug 16, 2010)

JeffreyD said:


> Are these things being done today, by Christians?


Actually they were done in this country will glee for 100's of years. Our wonderful country had to pass many laws over the years to put a stop to it. It would still be going on today if it wasn't for the threat of being tossed in prison. You can thank your "big Gov" for that.


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## Tricky Grama (Oct 7, 2006)

Haven said:


> Where is Tricky to say "thanks for your study of 1?"


Ah, missed it...however this is maybe the 10th time I've heard of similar work stories, so...thanks for the study of 10!
Nearly enuf to count.


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## Tricky Grama (Oct 7, 2006)

Haven said:


> Actually they were done in this country will glee for 100's of years. Our wonderful country had to pass many laws over the years to put a stop to it. It would still be going on today if it wasn't for the threat of being tossed in prison. You can thank your "big Gov" for that.


Still no links? I looked up things "done in this country will glee" & only found a TV show.
You'll have to elaborate.


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## Haven (Aug 16, 2010)

I am at work and don't have time to Google links for history lessons. The history is out there for those who choose to take off their blinders.


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## redwall (Mar 10, 2007)

you are confusing Christians with Americans. very few are really Christians, most have never read the bible. 1610 is when the first blue law started yep go to church or be whipped. sell bread go to the stocks.
Arlan's Department Store v. Kentucky (1962)
the end of the blue laws ruled that you could not be fined for paying people to work
religion has all ways tried to force people to do what they want. if not by force then by argument. 
out of 60 people on my face book friends list 59 have Christian listed. 10 have never been in a church since last being forced in it. 14 out of 27 responded never had read the bible and the rest only in church. my Jedi friend decided to ignore me. my point most people just go along with the flow and do what they have to do. if you are a Christian you kid will be a "Christian" if you are circumcised most likely your son will be.

fantasy maker how do you get around your name and computers?


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## Tricky Grama (Oct 7, 2006)

Just wanted to add, you don't have to go to a church to be a Christain.
Might also add, some of you are referring to the old testament, Christians follow the New Testament, the teachings of Christ. Hence the moniker.


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## beowoulf90 (Jan 13, 2004)

Haven said:


> Actually they were done in this country will glee for 100's of years. Our wonderful country had to pass many laws over the years to put a stop to it. It would still be going on today if it wasn't for the threat of being tossed in prison. You can thank your "big Gov" for that.


And Pagans used to sacrifice people.. 

All that is past tense and has not continued... It seems that the Pagans, Christians, Buddhists, Hindu's and others have advanced beyond their primal stages and Muslims haven't.. Yet it *appears* that you are condoning Muslims actions...

Then you have the gall to claim Big Government is the reason we and others don't follow the past..

Now that is funny! Big Government has nothing to do with it, other than to use the threat of jail as a control technique..


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## JeffreyD (Dec 27, 2006)

Haven said:


> Actually they were done in this country will glee for 100's of years. Our wonderful country had to pass many laws over the years to put a stop to it. It would still be going on today if it wasn't for the threat of being tossed in prison. You can thank your "big Gov" for that.


What does "will glee" mean?


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## postroad (Jan 19, 2009)

Tricky Grama said:


> Just wanted to add, you don't have to go to a church to be a Christain.
> Might also add, some of you are referring to the old testament, Christians follow the New Testament, the teachings of Christ. Hence the moniker.


It seems difficult to believe that God would have tricked the Jews into accepting the Law as a eternal source of salvation.


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## Haven (Aug 16, 2010)

With glee, not "will." I don't multi task well, while typing.


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## Tricky Grama (Oct 7, 2006)

Ah. Well, still don't know what you're speaking of. 
If you can show us what was done w/glee 100s of yrs, we'll take a look.


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## sidepasser (May 10, 2002)

Ok, so Muslims are to be praised for marrying children? 

Mohammed, the prophet of the Islamic world, married his last bride Aisha when she was just *six years old,* and the *consummated the marriage with her when she was just nine years old*. In Islamic states, partly because of this precedent, this practice still happens in fundamentalist countries like Afghanistan. Muslims will say that a child of six or seven is almost certain to be a virgin. Mohammed was at least 50 when he married Aisha.

Crimes Against Women and Children in the Name of Islam | Martin S Pribble

I_n Nigeria, a 49-year-old Muslim Senator has reportedly married a 13-year-old girl, and has allegedly previously married a 15-year-old in 2006, citing that he paid a dowry of $100,000 to the parents for her. Although looked down upon by other ministers in Nigeria it is still happening.
Women in Islam have no rights, especially if they are non-Muslim, and these men get away with their evils because people are too afraid to stand up against the barbarity of the culture which the religion they follow has instilled in them. Threats of death are imposed upon those who would stand up against this. In Lahore, a man and his entourage of Muslim lawyers has threatened to âburn aliveâ anyone who will come to the defence of a 12-year-old servant of his, whom he raped and murdered._
Crimes Against Women and Children in the Name of Islam | Martin S Pribble

Islam and domestic violence - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Undesirablity of beating
Scholars and commentators have stated that Muhammad directed men not to hit their wives' faces,[30] not to beat their wives in such a way as would leave marks on their body,[30][nb 5] and not to beat their wives as to cause pain (ghayr mubarrih).[25] Scholars too have stipulated against beating or disfigurement, with others such as the Syrian jurist Ibn Abidin prescribing ta'zir punishments against abusive husbands.[31]
Some jurists argue that even when beating is acceptable under the Qur'an, it is still discountenanced.[nb 6][nb 7][nb 8] Ibn Kathir in concluding his exegesis exhorts men to not beat their wives, quoting a hadith from Muhammad: "Do not hit God's servants" (here referring to women). The narration continues, stating that some while after the edict, "Umar complained to the Messenger of God that many women turned against their husbands. Muhammad gave his permission that the men could hit their wives in cases of rebelliousness. The women then turned to the wives of the Prophet and complained about their husbands. The Prophet said: 'Many women have turned to my family complaining about their husbands. Verily, these men are not among the best of you."[32]

Victim of Acid Attack Commits Suicide - ABC News
The Washington Post noted that Yunus became the face of violence against women in the country after Pakistani activist Tehmina Durrani, author of "My Feudal Lord," helped Yunus escape to Rome and get treatment for her disfigurement. Durrani is known to speak out against the injustices women face in Muslim society. Over the years, Yunus underwent 38 facial reconstructive and plastic surgeries after the attack.

Durrani wrote of Yunus in The News Daily, "I have met many acid victims. Never have I seen one as completely disfigured as Fakhra. She had not just become faceless; her body had also melted to the bone. Despite her stark and hopeless condition, the government of the Islamic Republic of Pakistan was not in the least God-fearing. She was provided nothing...but disdain...and trashed."

Acid attacks are prevalent in certain parts of Asia. According to the New York Times' Nicholas D. Kristof, who reported in 2008 that attacks were then at an all-time high in Pakistan, they are often the work of husbands who attack their wives as a form of revenge for refusing sexual advances or other proposals.

14 Year Old Girl Whipped to Death in Bangladesh for Being Raped | All American Blogger

Hena was walking from her room to an outdoor toilet when Mahbub Khan gagged her with cloth, forced her behind nearby shrubbery and beat and raped her.

Hena struggled to escape, Alya told CNN. Mahbub Khanâs wife heard Henaâs muffled screams and when she found Hena with her husband, she dragged the teenage girl back to her hut, beat her and trampled her on the floor.

The next day, the village elders met to discuss the case at Mahbub Khanâs house, Alya said. The imam pronounced his fatwa. Khan and Hena were found guilty of an illicit relationship. Her punishment under sharia or Islamic law was 101 lashes; his 201.

Mahbub Khan managed to escape after the first few lashes.

and on and on and on. Tell me that the Muslim religion is one of peace and comfort. It may be if you are male, it might be if you are of the correct sect, it might be if you are a Jihadist...

Of course this religion spouts off that women have rights..yes they have rights. Many rights which are unrecognized by Afghanistan, Pakistan, India, Iran, and Iraq.

Perhaps things are different in the US? Let's google and see:
[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vnJBW49afzg]American Muslims Stone Christians in Dearborn, MI (Original edit) - YouTube[/ame]

Muslims stone Christians In Dearborn, MI

FBI Warns of Violence in America Over Anti-Islamic Movie - ABC News
A U.S. intelligence bulletin warned today that the violent outrage aimed at U.S. embassies spawned by a movie mocking the Prophet Mohammed could be spread to America by extremist groups eager to "exploit anger."

The Joint Intelligence Bulletin issued by the FBI and the Department of Homeland Security said "the risk of violence could increase both at home and abroad as the film continues to gain attention."


Ending Domestic Violence in Muslim Families | ISNA

An authoritarian family structure predisposes many Muslims in America to be abused in some way and possibly to become the victims of violence. Generally, husband's dominance's in the family structure, the more likely wife and child abuse become. In the most abusive homes, the father believes and socializes his wife and children to believe that whatever he wants the family to do is the same as what Allah wants them to do. He, in effect, makes himself into something of a god. 

Of the eight to ten million Muslims in America, more than half are African-American, a small but growing number are European American, and the rest are immigrants (first, second, or third generation) from Middle Eastern, Southwest Asian, and other countries. 

Domestic violence in Islam : The Quran on wife-beating
As to a beating, the Holy Prophet [Muhammad] allowed it very reluctantly and even then did not like it. But the fact is that there are certain women who do not mend their ways without a beating. In such a case, the Holy Prophet has instructed that she would not be beaten on the face, or cruelly, or with anything which might leave a mark on the body. (vol. 1, p. 333, note 59)

Muslim Women in U.S. Struggle to Balance Western Freedoms and Islamic Culture | Fox News
Last month, Buffalo resident Aasiya Hassan, 37, was found decapitated after she had been complaining to police about domestic violence. Her husband, Muzzammil Hassan, was charged with the crime.
While Muslim leaders caution against stereotypes and point out that domestic violence happens in all cultures, some women's rights leaders worry that Islam is being used to justify violence against women.
"The typical Muslim man, they always are very overprotective, they're very controlling over the women. They're not allowed to do this, they're not allowed to do that," says 23-year-old Fai Oman, who was born in Yemen.
She says she feels lucky to be living in the West because she has more freedom and security than she would have in her home country.


Read more: Muslim Women in U.S. Struggle to Balance Western Freedoms and Islamic Culture | Fox News

I do believe that the religion as practiced by many Muslims is one in which violence is accepted.

I know that all Muslim people are different and not all are violent; however, there are violent Muslims and it appears that the non-violent Muslims rarely condemn those that are. Perhaps one can argue that violent people use Islam to hide behind and justify their actions. That may be true also. However, before I accept that "all Muslims are peace loving folk who only have Christian's best interests at heart", I will continue to be aware and as another poster stated "cautious" in my dealings with them.


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## Marshloft (Mar 24, 2008)

Sidepasser,, I mentioned the adulteration of muslim american women in a post once. I got "one" response.
You tell me. I don't understand really.
GH


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## EasyDay (Aug 28, 2004)

OK... so, back to the OP... which was about SIGNS.

If the Christians erect a cross, which is an easily identifiable method of "advertisement" for Jesus, they would have been forced to remove it to appease the non-Christians.

Perhaps if they put a phone number on the cross... a number to call for further education on Christianity... it would be allowed to stay? NOT!!!

Hypocrisy abounds.

Stand tall, Christians. We were warned that we would be hated.
"If the world hates you, you know that it hated Me before it hated you.
If you were of the world, the world would love its own.
Yet because you are not of the world, but I chose you out of the world,
therefore the world hates you." (John 15:18-19)


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## Tricky Grama (Oct 7, 2006)

Tnx, Sidepasser for the info. 

I really hesitated to hit hte 'like' button, nothing to like about all that but I like that you posted.
Now we have to wait for info on how Christains did those same things for 100s of yrs here, "will/with glee".


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## fordy (Sep 13, 2003)

...................Even a field of pure white cotton , can harbor lots of boll weivels(sp) ! Maybe they shoulda put a little six point star at the bottom of that bill board that says........"We ain't dangerous , but our grandkids might be".........or.....Six munths ago uh couldn't spell Jeehadist , now I are one !!lol , fordy:bouncy:


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## Truckinguy (Mar 8, 2008)

> Now we have to wait for info on how Christains did those same things for 100s of yrs here, "will/with glee".


I"m getting so tired of these "My religion is not as bad as your religion" threads. I"m not going to post links because a quick Google will bring up all you need to know. Try typing in Christian Historical Atrocities and see what comes up and, yes, HISTORY DOES COUNT!! A person can't commit many heinous acts then sit back and say "I'm not like that anymore" and just pass things off like they never happened. Hundreds of years ago Christians obviously didn't have big fancy airplanes and giant buildings to fly them into but they did just fine with guns, swords, axes, gallows, fire and just about anything else they could get their hands on to torture and kill anyone who didn't agree with them.

I"m not here to defend Islam, their violent track record speaks for itself but to pretend Christianity has always taken the higher road is laughable at best.


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## Tricky Grama (Oct 7, 2006)

Seems like some groups got over their anger at others...like the crusades were to get back at muslims for their atrocities. Seems like some groups would rather live in THOSE times, swords, axes, etc.


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## Truckinguy (Mar 8, 2008)

My understanding is that Islam is younger than Christianity and if you look at Christianity at the age that Islam is now it was just as brutal and violent and has had a few hundred years more to mature and become more moderate.

Most religions, by definition, are intolerant. They teach that their way is the only way. As much as we would all like to live in a fuzzy, feel good Utopia where all religions live side by side in peace and harmony, it's unlikely to happen. Every religion has it's fanatics and, as long as they exist, total peace between religions will never become a reality.


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## texican (Oct 4, 2003)

painterswife said:


> I don't judge all Christians by their religion so I will not judge all Muslims by their religion. Many people of many religions have used their religions as a reason to hurt others.
> 
> These billboards are no different from the pamphlets, billboards and books that other religion make available. Nothing creepy but in your own mind.


Only one religions holy book tells its followers to kill all the infidels/unbelievers. Either convert them, at swordpoint, or enslave them.

I do judge religions... by their holy texts. Followers may not follow the texts to the letter. But, if all followers did follow the texts to the letter, I'd rather be surrounded by Christians, Jews, Hindus, Buddhists, Sikhs, Shinto's, American Indians...even "Atheists"... cause if you have a follower of Mohammed living up to the Koran, you have something to be worried about. Especially if one is a woman...


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## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

texican said:


> Only one religions holy book tells its followers to kill all the infidels/unbelievers. Either convert them, at swordpoint, or enslave them.
> 
> I do judge religions... by their holy texts. Followers may not follow the texts to the letter. But, if all followers did follow the texts to the letter, I'd rather be surrounded by Christians, Jews, Hindus, Buddhists, Sikhs, Shinto's, American Indians...even "Atheists"... cause if you have a follower of Mohammed living up to the Koran, you have something to be worried about. Especially if one is a woman...


So I guess you also judge Christians because of everything in the bible relating to stonein, treatment of women etc.


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## JeffreyD (Dec 27, 2006)

painterswife said:


> So I guess you also judge Christians because of everything in the bible relating to stonein, treatment of women etc.


When was the last time someone was stoned by a Christian? I can tell you when it was Muslims! When was the last time a Christian beheaded someone? I can tell you when it was a Muslim! When was the last time a Christian desicrated religious icons of anothers religion? I can tell you when the Muslims did it!

Should I keep going? Islam, the religion of peace, really? I keep seeing and reading the news about how peacefull Muslims are.......NOT!


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## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

JeffreyD said:


> When was the last time someone was stoned by a Christian? I can tell you when it was Muslims! When was the last time a Christian beheaded someone? I can tell you when it was a Muslim! When was the last time a Christian desicrated religious icons of anothers religion? I can tell you when the Muslims did it!
> 
> Should I keep going? Islam, the religion of peace, really? I keep seeing and reading the news about how peacefull Muslims are.......NOT!


Just because people of other religions have moved on to newer tools to kill, does not mean they are not killing.


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## beowoulf90 (Jan 13, 2004)

painterswife said:


> Just because people of other religions have moved on to newer tools to kill, does not mean they are not killing.


Yup, same excuse as always.. "Everyone does it" so how can you say it is wrong..

So tell me when in the US a christian, pagan, buddhist, hindu etc did an honor killing?

I can show you where a muslim has...


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## JeffreyD (Dec 27, 2006)

painterswife said:


> Just because people of other religions have moved on to newer tools to kill, does not mean they are not killing.


Ah, I see, you don't want to answer my questions do you? Why not?


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## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

JeffreyD said:


> Ah, I see, you don't want to answer my questions do you? Why not?


There is no point in answering your question. The majority of Muslims are not extremists and just as you can not attribute all the killings by Christians to every Christian, you can not attribute all the killings to every Muslim.


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## JeffreyD (Dec 27, 2006)

painterswife said:


> There is no point in answering your question. The majority of Muslims are not extremists and just as you can not attribute all the killings by Christians to every Christian, you can not attribute all the killings to every Muslim.


Sure there is a point! Muslims kill and torture non-Muslims and they prove it every day! Christians..... not so much! 

Here's my point: Muslims are killing in the name of Islam everyday, right now, today, yesterday, tommorow, next week! They also desicrate the religious sites of others.

Christiians......not so much!

Yea, Islam is the religion of peace, or so they keep telling us!.... NOT!


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## Sonshine (Jul 27, 2007)

painterswife said:


> I guess you are fine with judging all Christians by the actions of the Westboro Baptist Church.
> I guess I should judge all Grama's by the things you post, or better yet all women.


The Westboro Baptist Church is one group that has been rejected by mainstream Christians. Where are the Muslims that are speaking out against the acts of terrorism done in their name?


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## Sonshine (Jul 27, 2007)

Haven said:


> All I learned about Christianity would take up too much room on this forum to post. To be fair and balanced, you should list all of the atrocities of all religions (including your own), committed over thousands of years into the present day, unless of course you just want to post biased, one-sided information while singling out just one group.


I'm more interested in what's happened in my lifetime and is still happening. Yes Christians did some bad things, but as far as I can tell, they aren't going around recruiting suicide bombers, they aren't cutting off limbs from children who steal to survive, they aren't stoning their women because she was raped, the list goes on and on, so keep sticking your head in the sand. When the Muslim Brotherhood completely takes over we'll have this discussion again, right before we're stoned or beheaded.


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## Sonshine (Jul 27, 2007)

painterswife said:


> There you go again, misdirecting by posting something that has nothing top do with the post I responded to.
> 
> I know you don't get it so I will explain it in hopes that you might. Judging a whole religion by the actions of one group is despicable and bigoted. Just as it would be for me to judge your husband by something you do just because he is part of your family. I can not say it any plainer.


One group? Let's see, Al Quaida, Hezbolah, Muslim Brotherhood, I'm sure there are many more, but I'm not going searching for them.


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## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

Sonshine said:


> The Westboro Baptist Church is one group that has been rejected by mainstream Christians. Where are the Muslims that are speaking out against the acts of terrorism done in their name?


Done in their name? That is the same as saying that the Christians picketing funerals of Vets are doing it in name of other Christians.

You don't mean that do you?


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## Sonshine (Jul 27, 2007)

Haven said:


> Tricky, I would encourage you to post about your personal experience living with Muslims. What you read on the internet and Fox "news" doesn't count, btw.


So you discount all the terrorists attacks because it was on Fox News???? From what I have seen, all the news stations have reported on the terrorists attacks.


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## Sonshine (Jul 27, 2007)

painterswife said:


> I see it is still not clear.* You judged a whole religion by an act.* I was showing you examples of what I meant. I give up you will never see this, you will never see the whole picture.


Just a bit of a correction here, not by AN act, but by numerous acts. Carry on.


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## Sonshine (Jul 27, 2007)

painterswife said:


> For every story like that I can post one where someone starved their kids to death, beat them to death, shot their wife, drowned their kids, killed their parents. There are bad people in every religion.


Then show where they are becoming suicide bombers, or the leaders that are exterminating those with different religious beliefs, or want to wipe other countries off the face of the Earth just because they are Jews. When you show me that, then you may have a point, but I have not seen any other "group" do these things. Yes, you can point out individuals, but our laws don't condone those actions and they are brought to justice for what they have done. The Muslim world not only condones this behavior, it dictates it.


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## Sonshine (Jul 27, 2007)

painterswife said:


> It really does not matter what justification they use it all results in the same bad situation. Again to tar everyone of any religion, color, creed, sex, location or hair color with the crimes of others that share those same traits is wrong. Judge each individual on their own actions not on those of others.


When their religion and their governments support these actions then it makes it an entirely different scenario.


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## Sonshine (Jul 27, 2007)

painterswife said:


> We fight for their rights but we have no say in how they choose to live their lives unless what they choose to hurts others. That is the whole point of having a right. It is up to the individual to chose to use it or not.


But don't you see? The Muslim women who have tried to stand up for their rights end up dead in honor killings. How can they fight, when people like you stand up for the rights of these people to follow their religion when it is responsible for the deaths of innocent women and girls?


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## Sonshine (Jul 27, 2007)

pcwerk said:


> i know several muslims and all of them are good people who think the "jihadists" are crazy and give islam a bad name. the ones that do all these horrendous things are NOT good muslims they are BAD muslims. just like all the christians behind bars in this country are BAD christians not good ones. if the press reported everyones religion on every crime report i dare say you would be hearing far more about christian evildoers than muslim ones...


Then why aren't they on the air condemning those who commit these atrocities? Why do they remain silent in the face of what we see going on in the ME as well as in our own country? To remain silent is to side with those commiting these atrocities.


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## Sonshine (Jul 27, 2007)

Haven said:


> A good friend left the amish 60 years ago and now drives transport for them. He said a local amish family once had a small daughter that was badly injured, and they basically propped her up next to a tree and left her to die with no medical help. Is someone going to start an amish religion bashing thread next? Probably not, since what goes on in that community is kept hushed...and they aren't Muslim...


And they aren't bombing our cities, beheading our journalist and killing our ambassadors. When the Amish start doing that, then you may have a valid point, until then you show your desperation to support these radicals. I'm just curious as to why people like you choose to support them, when if given a chance, you would be stoned by them in a heart beat.


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## Sonshine (Jul 27, 2007)

Haven said:


> I have had 2 very good female friends who dated/married Muslim men over the years and they were both treated fine, just like any other normal US women. The people posting this religious hate online have no personal close personal experience with people from other cultures and have nothing better to do than cross post propaganda they read on the web.


My FIL dated a Muslim woman. A very dear friend of mine works with Muslim women on a daily basis. I personally have not known any Muslims on a close basis, but these two have. The stories I hear from my friend, about the Muslim women she helps is so sad. They fear even talking to her most of the time. BTW, she works for a law firm helping refugees get set up in business.


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## Sonshine (Jul 27, 2007)

redwall said:


> what do you say about slavery? the bible says its fine to own another person and to sell them and buy them. it also talks about stoning people to death for being a prostitute and killing rape victims if no one hears them scream in the city. any one can cherry pick from a holy book that has 2000 years of history. have you read their holly book? i have its like reading the old testament.


Good try, now try proving your point using the New Testament, since we no longer live under the law, but under grace. Jesus came to fullfill the law, which God never intended mankind to live under, but allowed to show mankind his need for a Savior. It was man that requested a king, God just gave us what we asked for till we realized that what we really needed was Jesus.


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## Sonshine (Jul 27, 2007)

Haven said:


> Where is Tricky to say "thanks for your study of 1?"


In other words, no response.  Got it. Thanks.


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## Sonshine (Jul 27, 2007)

Haven said:


> Actually they were done in this country will glee for 100's of years. Our wonderful country had to pass many laws over the years to put a stop to it. It would still be going on today if it wasn't for the threat of being tossed in prison. You can thank your "big Gov" for that.


WERE done. The Muslims are still doing it. So, since you believe we were doing all this so long ago and it was wrong, why is it ok for the Muslims to be doing it now? Does what America did years ago change what is happening now? When the Muslim community makes the changes that America has, then we may be able to revisit this discussion, but as for right now, they are doing the same thing they have for hundreds of years and they are targetting Americans.


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## Sonshine (Jul 27, 2007)

Haven said:


> I am at work and don't have time to Google links for history lessons. The history is out there for those who choose to take off their blinders.


So, maybe you should stop living in the past and open your eyes to what is happening TODAY!! No one can change what happened in the past, but only what is currently happening. And what is currently happening is dangerous for Americans. If these so called "peaceful" Muslims what Americans to veiw them differently, then they need to make the changes that evidently America has made. Until then, they are dangerous to me and mine and will be treated as an enemy.


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## Sonshine (Jul 27, 2007)

redwall said:


> you are confusing Christians with Americans. very few are really Christians, most have never read the bible. 1610 is when the first blue law started yep go to church or be whipped. sell bread go to the stocks.
> Arlan's Department Store v. Kentucky (1962)
> the end of the blue laws ruled that you could not be fined for paying people to work
> religion has all ways tried to force people to do what they want. if not by force then by argument.
> ...


What does any of this have to do with terrorist attacks?


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## Sonshine (Jul 27, 2007)

postroad said:


> It seems difficult to believe that God would have tricked the Jews into accepting the Law as a eternal source of salvation.


They don't accept the law as a eternal source of salvation. You may need to studying up on Judaism.


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## Sonshine (Jul 27, 2007)

Truckinguy said:


> I"m getting so tired of these "My religion is not as bad as your religion" threads. I"m not going to post links because a quick Google will bring up all you need to know. Try typing in Christian Historical Atrocities and see what comes up and, yes, HISTORY DOES COUNT!! A person can't commit many heinous acts then sit back and say "I'm not like that anymore" and just pass things off like they never happened. Hundreds of years ago Christians obviously didn't have big fancy airplanes and giant buildings to fly them into but they did just fine with guns, swords, axes, gallows, fire and just about anything else they could get their hands on to torture and kill anyone who didn't agree with them.
> 
> I"m not here to defend Islam, their violent track record speaks for itself but to pretend Christianity has always taken the higher road is laughable at best.


Christians have the planes and weaponry now, so where are they performing terrorist attacks? They still have children, so where are the little girls being bought by the priests, rabbis and pastors for wives? Last one I know of that tried that is in prison now. When we the last time a Christian stoned someone? Beheaded them? Cut off their hand for stealing? Yes, history matters, looks like some have learned from it, others are still living in it.


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## Sonshine (Jul 27, 2007)

Truckinguy said:


> My understanding is that Islam is younger than Christianity and if you look at Christianity at the age that Islam is now it was just as brutal and violent and has had a few hundred years more to mature and become more moderate.
> 
> Most religions, by definition, are intolerant. They teach that their way is the only way. As much as we would all like to live in a fuzzy, feel good Utopia where all religions live side by side in peace and harmony, it's unlikely to happen. Every religion has it's fanatics and, as long as they exist, total peace between religions will never become a reality.


Even if I agreed with what you posted, which I don't, does that mean we wait a few hundred years and sit back and let these Muslims continue to murder the innocent people in terrorist attacks? Does that mean that we should trust them now, because in a few hundred years they may finally learn that their way is wrong?


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## Sonshine (Jul 27, 2007)

painterswife said:


> So I guess you also judge Christians because of everything in the bible relating to stonein, treatment of women etc.


Have you read the Q'ran? Have you read the New Testament? Compare the two and you will have your answer.


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## Sonshine (Jul 27, 2007)

painterswife said:


> Just because people of other religions have moved on to newer tools to kill, does not mean they are not killing.


Please, explain this comment. How have Christians moved on to newer tools to kill, and please don't say the US military, because it is made up of all faiths and I don't consider what they do as terrorist acts attacking the inncocent.


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## Sonshine (Jul 27, 2007)

painterswife said:


> There is no point in answering your question. The majority of Muslims are not extremists and just as you can not attribute all the killings by Christians to every Christian, you can not attribute all the killings to every Muslim.


We don't have to, their silence is deafening.


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## Sonshine (Jul 27, 2007)

painterswife said:


> Done in their name? That is the same as saying that the Christians picketing funerals of Vets are doing it in name of other Christians.
> 
> You don't mean that do you?


The only Christians I have seen or heard of picketing the funerals of Vets are Westboro Baptist, and every Christian I have personally known, or have seen on the news has condemned this group. However, Tricky made a good point, West Boro are the slime of the earth, IMO, BUT, as far as I know they aren't murdering anyone, just exercising their freedom of speech. I know the Muslims hate that particular freedom that Americans enjoy, do you happen to agree with them on that? Do you think we should stone those from Westboro because we disagree with what they are "saying"?


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## thesedays (Feb 25, 2011)

I'll admit that whenever I see a roomful of people facing Mecca, I always wonder how many of them really believe in what they're doing, and how many of them do it because they know they will lose everything if they don't.


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## thesedays (Feb 25, 2011)

Haven said:


> A good friend left the amish 60 years ago and now drives transport for them. He said a local amish family once had a small daughter that was badly injured, and they basically propped her up next to a tree and left her to die with no medical help. Is someone going to start an amish religion bashing thread next? Probably not, since what goes on in that community is kept hushed...and they aren't Muslim...


I've lived in areas with large Amish populations. One was arrested and convicted for child molestation, and some of them have also been arrested for meth manufacture and running puppy mills, but this doesn't mean they're ALL that way.


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## Tricky Grama (Oct 7, 2006)

Sonshine said:


> WERE done. The Muslims are still doing it. So, since you believe we were doing all this so long ago and it was wrong, why is it ok for the Muslims to be doing it now? Does what America did years ago change what is happening now? When the Muslim community makes the changes that America has, then we may be able to revisit this discussion, but as for right now, they are doing the same thing they have for hundreds of years and they are targetting Americans.


I'm still waiting for all those links that prove things were done in this country "will/with GLEE"...Not even sure what the "things" are, since we were discussing stonings, beheadings, 'arm choppings', etc.
Someone citing hearsay about an Amish family 'propping up a small child against a tree'...we do know some are not in the habit of going to docs when should...but this 'case' has no circumstances, no clues as to what went on.
I'd like to know what it has to do w/beheadings, honor killings...


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## Tricky Grama (Oct 7, 2006)

Sonshine said:


> Even if I agreed with what you posted, which I don't, does that mean we wait a few hundred years and sit back and let these Muslims continue to murder the innocent people in terrorist attacks? Does that mean that we should trust them now, because in a few hundred years they may finally learn that their way is wrong?


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## Tricky Grama (Oct 7, 2006)

Sonshine said:


> The only Christians I have seen or heard of picketing the funerals of Vets are Westboro Baptist, and every Christian I have personally known, or have seen on the news has condemned this group. However, Tricky made a good point, West Boro are the slime of the earth, IMO, BUT, as far as I know they aren't murdering anyone, just exercising their freedom of speech. I know the Muslims hate that particular freedom that Americans enjoy, do you happen to agree with them on that? Do you think we should stone those from Westboro because we disagree with what they are "saying"?


Have not heard of ol' westboror lately...we have a band or 2 of motorcycle folks who go where westboro protests, ride in front of them, drown them out, hold banners in front of them.
But I guess its all not very brave of them...westboro wouldn't blow them up or behead them for this. 

Oh, AND all the while, we DEFEND their RIGHT to do this. (westboro's right to protest)


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## postroad (Jan 19, 2009)

Sonshine said:


> Good try, now try proving your point using the New Testament, since we no longer live under the law, but under grace. Jesus came to fullfill the law, which God never intended mankind to live under, but allowed to show mankind his need for a Savior. It was man that requested a king, God just gave us what we asked for till we realized that what we really needed was Jesus.


Did God lie to the Jews?


Deuteronomy 13:1-6

New International Version 1984 (NIV1984)


Worshiping Other Gods

13 If a prophet, or one who foretells by dreams, appears among you and announces to you a miraculous sign or wonder, 2 and if the sign or wonder of which he has spoken takes place, and he says, âLet us follow other godsâ (gods you have not known) âand let us worship them,â 3 you must not listen to the words of that prophet or dreamer. The Lord your God is testing you to find out whether you love him with all your heart and with all your soul. 4 It is the Lord your God you must follow, and him you must revere. Keep his commands and obey him; serve him and hold fast to him. 5 That prophet or dreamer must be put to death, because he preached rebellion against the Lord your God, who brought you out of Egypt and redeemed you from the land of slavery; he has tried to turn you from the way the Lord your God commanded you to follow. You must purge the evil from among you.

6 If your very own brother, or your son or daughter, or the wife you love, or your closest friend secretly entices you, saying, âLet us go and worship other godsâ (gods that neither you nor your fathers have known,



Deuteronomy 30:10-13

New International Version 1984 (NIV1984)


10 if you obey the Lord your God and keep his commands and decrees that are written in this Book of the Law and turn to the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul.

The Offer of Life or Death

11 Now what I am commanding you today is not too difficult for you or beyond your reach. 12 It is not up in heaven, so that you have to ask, âWho will ascend into heaven to get it and proclaim it to us so we may obey it?â 13 Nor is it beyond the sea, so that you have to ask, âWho will cross the sea to get it and proclaim it to us so we may obey it?â


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## Sonshine (Jul 27, 2007)

Tricky Grama said:


> I'm still waiting for all those links that prove things were done in this country "will/with GLEE"...Not even sure what the "things" are, since we were discussing stonings, beheadings, 'arm choppings', etc.
> Someone citing hearsay about an Amish family 'propping up a small child against a tree'...we do know some are not in the habit of going to docs when should...but this 'case' has no circumstances, no clues as to what went on.
> I'd like to know what it has to do w/beheadings, honor killings...


I figure they are referring to the Salem witch trials, or the attacks on Native Americans, or slavery, or something that happened so long ago that none of us were alive at the time. Yes, as a country we have made mistakes. However, they are claiming it's a Christian thing, not a government thing, so that would be the witch trials. I'm waiting to see anyone post anything in recent history that will show that Christians are as bad as the terrorists.


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## Sonshine (Jul 27, 2007)

postroad said:


> Did God lie to the Jews?
> 
> 
> Deuteronomy 13:1-6
> ...


What does this have to do with the original statement? Jesus fullfilled the law, which was God's intention from the beginning of time. The law was given to show man his need for a Savior. What you posted doesn't change or even address that statement.


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## Laura Zone 5 (Jan 13, 2010)

Amendment I 
Congress shall make no law respecting *an establishment *of religion, or *prohibiting the free exercise thereof;* or *abridging the freedom of speech,* or *of the press*; or the *right of the people peaceably to assemble,* and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

Billboards.
I think they fall under the freedom of press?

I have seen a lot of billboards in my day. Driving into Chicago, 90% of them are 'smut' IMHO....so I don't look.
Someone owns the land the billboard is on.
I 'assume they pay taxes each year on the land'.
Someone owns the billboard.
I 'assume' they pay the land owner rent.
Someone buys an ad on that board.
I assume the board owner pays taxes on that income.

Then we the consumers have a choice.

We can look, we can not look.
We can buy, we can not buy.
We as Americans SCREAM AND YELL for our 'rights'......until the person who is exercising THEIR right.....is not what 'we like'. 
Then we make up 50-11 excuses why THEIR rights are not as right as OUR rights.
Comical.
Well, like in a comedy/tragedy kind of way.

If ANYONE wants to put up ANYTHING on a billboard, let 'em.
I will not have to answer for their actions in the end, why load my diaper up about it now?


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## Truckinguy (Mar 8, 2008)

> Good try, now try proving your point using the New Testament, since we no longer live under the law, but under grace.





> Have you read the Q'ran? Have you read the New Testament? Compare the two and you will have your answer.


Why write off the entire Old Testament? Christians have to be responsible for all the atrocities committed in God's name before Jesus was born. Sure, it wasn't actually called Christianity at the time but those who followed God's commandments still committed horrific acts of cruelty, and extermination in His name. It's kind of like an old mass murderer in prison "finding God" and then condemning some younger person out there killing people. It doesn't erase the responsibilities of the past.

I've never understood why a lot of Christians seem to want to completely disregard more than 3/4 of their own Bible.



> Even if I agreed with what you posted, which I don't, does that mean we wait a few hundred years and sit back and let these Muslims continue to murder the innocent people in terrorist attacks? Does that mean that we should trust them now, because in a few hundred years they may finally learn that their way is wrong?


Of course not. Islam should be fought with every available resource that we have. Their views on human rights is sickening. Again, I'm not here to defend Muslims, my issue is when Christians seem to take this holier-than-thou attitude like they're some fuzzy feel-good group. Go back a few hundred years and you would be having this same conversation except you would be replacing the current use of the word "Muslim" "with Christian/Catholic" and the word "Christian" with the words "Muslim/Jew/Pagan/Anybody not Christian".

My parents and most of my brothers and sisters left the Christian cult we were brought up in 30 years ago and since that time I have one sister, uncles and aunts, cousins and former friends who haven't spoken to our family because we are considered sinful. My parents were not informed of their parents passing until after their funerals. You may not equate this with flying planes into buildings but it has been devastating to our family. I know many other families around the world who left our cult who are in the same situation, some who have resulted in suicides. Christians may not go around blowing people up but there are still a lot of things done today in the name of Christianity that cause a lot of damage to a lot of people.


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## fordy (Sep 13, 2003)

................The most telling indictment of the 'Friendly Muslims' , NOT being as friendly as some like to postulate on here is that , when a christian or any religion other than Muslim visits a country with an almost 100% Muslim orientation you suddenly realize that the acceptance of other religious denominations is not tolerated ! There maybe small numbers 'other' religions scattered around , but nothing significant in terms of members in the thousands . , fordy


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## Immaculate Sublimity (Apr 30, 2003)

You know... I started this post.. .and watched it snowball and as far as I can tell by reading all the responses... Not a single person twigged on the actual meaning of my question. Everyone and their brother is talking about sharia law infiltrating these United States... they're protesting for and against the idea that there could be some kind of planned change taking place through the leadership of this country ... sheeple being led to slaughter and others professing tinfoil hat syndrome... 

My post was pretty vague about my own thoughts - other than it being 'creepy' but yanno... it woudlnt surprise me one bit if the entire country is slowly being desensitised to enable that change that no one believes can happen here in the US... offering people to learn about the 'peaceable religion of islam' even when most know it isnt quite that simple... sure would be a great first step.


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## Haven (Aug 16, 2010)

Most of the people here need a history lesson because they are walking around wearing blinders. The video of the Christian group driving to a family street festival in Dearborn and proceeding to taunt Middle Eastern children with religious hate signs and then filming their reactions while yelling "oh yea, here we go!" is pretty much the mentality of Americans who fan the flames of religious hate around here.

The USA has been like a little kid, holding out a stick and poking a hornets nest (the Middle East) for YEARS. We have occupied them, we have killed their women and children, we have bombed their cities, we have seriously messed with their culture, we have uprooted their leaders, we have given sanctuary to their former leaders who were driven out for committing atrocities, and we have politically screwed them for our own selfish gains in oil, etc.

Christians can turn a blind eye to the reality of what we have done in the Middle East because it gives them an excuse to hate other religions. It won't change the fact that we are coming out of a 2 term presidency held by a big oil man, that once again decided to invade the Middle East and occupy the region on false pretenses. The hornets nest has been poked hard once again over the last 10 years.

No hate-defender here will look up actual history to learn about what we have done over there for decades, and perhaps ask their self if the USA is to blame for any of it. You would rather keep poking the hornets nest and making hateful comments about people on the web because it is an outlet for bigotry among a like-minded little community here.

There is a movie out right now called ARGO for anyone who is interesting in seeing a tiny glimpse of how we have messed with the Middle East coming out of the 1970's. In reality, the history is much longer than that.


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## Immaculate Sublimity (Apr 30, 2003)

sometimes I wonder who is going to actually be surprised when they need a Burqa for every season. Personally I'd try to avoid black at all costs, its so funereal and morose.


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## Sonshine (Jul 27, 2007)

Laura Zone 5 said:


> Amendment I
> Congress shall make no law respecting *an establishment *of religion, or *prohibiting the free exercise thereof;* or *abridging the freedom of speech,* or *of the press*; or the *right of the people peaceably to assemble,* and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.
> 
> Billboards.
> ...


No one is saying they can't put them up, just that it creeps her out seeing them.


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## Sonshine (Jul 27, 2007)

Truckinguy said:


> Why write off the entire Old Testament? Christians have to be responsible for all the atrocities committed in God's name before Jesus was born. Sure, it wasn't actually called Christianity at the time but those who followed God's commandments still committed horrific acts of cruelty, and extermination in His name. It's kind of like an old mass murderer in prison "finding God" and then condemning some younger person out there killing people. It doesn't erase the responsibilities of the past.
> 
> I've never understood why a lot of Christians seem to want to completely disregard more than 3/4 of their own Bible.
> 
> ...


Jesus came to "fullfill" the laws in the Old Testament and we entered into a "new" covenant with God through Jesus. I don't know about you, but I'm not old enough to have been around during the OT days, so what was done back then has nothing to do with me or my faith. Just like I wasn't around during the Salem trials. As for your own personal story regarding family members who have differing beliefs, this happens in all faiths. I can relate to it more than you know, since I went through something similar with my family, but I wasn't blown up or stoned, and lived through the exchange and come out on the other side a stronger person. I'm not saying Christians are perfect, but I am saying that to compare them to present day Muslims because of things that happened many years before either of us was even born is a bit dishonest.


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## Sonshine (Jul 27, 2007)

Immaculate Sublimity said:


> You know... I started this post.. .and watched it snowball and as far as I can tell by reading all the responses... Not a single person twigged on the actual meaning of my question. Everyone and their brother is talking about sharia law infiltrating these United States... they're protesting for and against the idea that there could be some kind of planned change taking place through the leadership of this country ... sheeple being led to slaughter and others professing tinfoil hat syndrome...
> 
> My post was pretty vague about my own thoughts - other than it being 'creepy' but yanno... it woudlnt surprise me one bit if the entire country is slowly being desensitised to enable that change that no one believes can happen here in the US... offering people to learn about the 'peaceable religion of islam' even when most know it isnt quite that simple... sure would be a great first step.


It's like the frog in the water. Right after 9/11 America was united in our stand against terrorism. As time has gone on, the heat has been turned up slowly. Mainstream media has tried to "Americanize" the radicals and unfortunately, these days, even though they are still terrorists and their agenda hasn't changed, Americans have become lax in their vigilance.


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## Sonshine (Jul 27, 2007)

Haven said:


> Most of the people here need a history lesson because they are walking around wearing blinders.* The video of the Christian group driving to a family street festival in Dearborn and proceeding to taunt Middle Eastern children with religious hate signs and then filming their reactions while yelling "oh yea, here we go!"* Where are they blowing up the children? Most here condemned the actions of these people, but it still doesn't compare to what the middle east would do to your child if the situation was reversed.is pretty much the mentality of Americans who fan the flames of religious hate around here.
> 
> The USA has been like a little kid, holding out a stick and poking a hornets nest (the Middle East) for YEARS. We have occupied them, we have killed their women and children, we have bombed their cities, we have seriously messed with their culture, we have uprooted their leaders, we have given sanctuary to their former leaders who were driven out for committing atrocities, and we have politically screwed them for our own selfish gains in oil, etc. How much oil have we gotten from our current war in the Middle east?
> 
> ...


You may want to study up on the history of the Muslims and all the atrocities they have committed through the ages, then you may understand why many don't trust them, which is not the same as hating them.


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## Sonshine (Jul 27, 2007)

Immaculate Sublimity said:


> sometimes I wonder who is going to actually be surprised when they need a Burqa for every season. Personally I'd try to avoid black at all costs, its so funereal and morose.


Most won't live long enough to don the burka, they will be stoned first for thinking they can still say what they want.


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## Laura Zone 5 (Jan 13, 2010)

Sonshine said:


> No one is saying they can't put them up, just that it creeps her out seeing them.


Seriously?
A 5 page discussion about 'being creeped out"?


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## Sonshine (Jul 27, 2007)

Laura Zone 5 said:


> Seriously?
> A 5 page discussion about 'being creeped out"?


LOL That was the original post, but got sidetracked into something not having anything to do with the bill boards, so free speech is not in play.


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## Haven (Aug 16, 2010)

Sonshine said:


> You may want to study up on the history of the Muslims and all the atrocities they have committed through the ages, then you may understand why many don't trust them, which is not the same as hating them.


The only difference between you and some other people is that you choose to only see what one religion has done through the ages, while believing your own religion and gov't is blameless in the matter. Others look at the full picture and see what many religions have done to each other. Empathy is the ability to step outside of yourself and put yourself in the shoes of another culture or person. I'm sure your opinion would change if they have been invading, occupying and killing women an children for years on US soil. Many Middle Eastern people have grown up for generations in streets torn apart and occupied by US troops; you cannot blame them for lashing back, and I am not saying it makes it right to bomb US buildings either. You would feel the same in their shoes. They are human just like you and I, and that Muslim woman with a child on her arm wants the same peace and protection for her child as you ant for yours. The Christians, Jews and other religions have been killing each other in the region for thousands of years..


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## Truckinguy (Mar 8, 2008)

> Jesus came to "fullfill" the laws in the Old Testament and we entered into a "new" covenant with God through Jesus. *I don't know about you, but I'm not old enough to have been around during the OT days, so what was done back then has nothing to do with me or my faith.* Just like I wasn't around during the Salem trials. As for your own personal story regarding family members who have differing beliefs, this happens in all faiths. I can relate to it more than you know, since I went through something similar with my family, but I wasn't blown up or stoned, and lived through the exchange and come out on the other side a stronger person. I'm not saying Christians are perfect, but I am saying that to compare them to present day Muslims because of things that happened many years before either of us was even born is a bit dishonest.


I don't think you were around during the New Testament days either but I'll bet you claim to be saved by a man who lived and died back then. You can't have it both ways. If you claim the Bible, you claim the entire Bible. You can't just take the good parts and ignore the rest. All of it is relevant.

Christians need to take ownership of everything that has happened in history in God's name and, in fact, quite often specifically commanded by God. This is the same God that Christians worship today, is it not? If what happened back in the Old Testament days has nothing to do with you and your faith, why not just stop printing the OT altogether and you'll have yourself a smaller, nicer little Bible with only the New Testament in it. To ignore a large part of the history of Christianity is dishonest and, quite frankly, hypocritical. 

Christianity is Islam's older brother, it's calmed down and is looking for a wife, while Islam is still in it's rebellious teen years but that doesn't erase the fact that Christianity was very naughty in it's younger days. It also doesn't ignore the fact that Islam needs a good smack in the chops...


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## JeffreyD (Dec 27, 2006)

Truckinguy said:


> I don't think you were around during the New Testament days either but I'll bet you claim to be saved by a man who lived and died back then. You can't have it both ways. If you claim the Bible, you claim the entire Bible. You can't just take the good parts and ignore the rest. All of it is relevant.
> 
> Christians need to take ownership of everything that has happened in history in God's name and, in fact, quite often specifically commanded by God. This is the same God that Christians worship today, is it not? If what happened back in the Old Testament days has nothing to do with you and your faith, why not just stop printing the OT altogether and you'll have yourself a smaller, nicer little Bible with only the New Testament in it. To ignore a large part of the history of Christianity is dishonest and, quite frankly, hypocritical.
> 
> Christianity is Islam's older brother, it's calmed down and is looking for a wife, while Islam is still in it's rebellious teen years but that doesn't erase the fact that Christianity was very naughty in it's younger days. It also doesn't ignore the fact that Islam needs a good smack in the chops...


So you support the Muslims extremists since their just rebelious teens and they haven't done anything that Christians haven't done, and the last 100 years don't mean much either? That's just an excuse for their behavior. Don't forget that the Quran calls for the extermination of those that don't follow the teachings of the prophet. But, you know this already, don't you? I've never seen a Christian behead someone, stone someone, fly jet planes into building causing the deaths of thousands, destroy the religious icons of others, chop off body parts as punishments, etc..., have you?


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## Truckinguy (Mar 8, 2008)

> So you support the Muslims extremists since their just rebelious teens and they haven't done anything that Christians haven't done, and the last 100 years don't mean much either? That's just an excuse for their behavior. Don't forget that the Quran calls for the extermination of those that don't follow the teachings of the prophet. But, you know this already, don't you? *I've never seen a Christian behead someone, stone someone, fly jet planes into building causing the deaths of thousands, destroy the religious icons of others, chop off body parts as punishments, etc..., have you?*


I've stated twice in my posts that I'm not defending Islam, you really need to read more carefully. 

The Bible also calls for the deaths of unbelievers and those who worship other Gods. You've never seen Christians do those things in the bolded part because it doesn't happen now but it has happened (except for the planes, of course!). Christians over history have destroyed countless temples of other religions and killed millions of people.

Islam needs to be opposed with all the force in the world but the superior "We would never do that" attitude is a bit hypocritical.


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## ET1 SS (Oct 22, 2005)

Truckinguy said:


> ... The Bible also calls for the deaths of unbelievers and those who worship other Gods.


Could you please provide for us a Bible passage for this claim?


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## Sonshine (Jul 27, 2007)

Haven said:


> The only difference between you and some other people is that you choose to only see what one religion has done through the ages, while believing your own religion and gov't is blameless in the matter. Others look at the full picture and see what many religions have done to each other. Empathy is the ability to step outside of yourself and put yourself in the shoes of another culture or person. I'm sure your opinion would change if they have been invading, occupying and killing women an children for years on US soil. Many Middle Eastern people have grown up for generations in streets torn apart and occupied by US troops; you cannot blame them for lashing back, and I am not saying it makes it right to bomb US buildings either. You would feel the same in their shoes. They are human just like you and I, and that Muslim woman with a child on her arm wants the same peace and protection for her child as you ant for yours. The Christians, Jews and other religions have been killing each other in the region for thousands of years..


Sorry, we're going to have to agree to disagree. I have studied their so called peaceful religion and it's anything but. Empathy has nothing to do with it. As for denying the acts of Christians, I have never done that, but you seem to think it's the Christians that are waging war against them, which isn't true, it's most of the civilized nations because of the atrocities they have committed on our people as well as their own people. I have a lot of empathy for the women and children who are treated worse than most in America treat their animals.


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## Sonshine (Jul 27, 2007)

Truckinguy said:


> I don't think you were around during the New Testament days either *but I'll bet you claim to be saved by a man who lived and died back then*. You can't have it both ways. If you claim the Bible, you claim the entire Bible. You can't just take the good parts and ignore the rest. All of it is relevant.
> 
> Christians need to take ownership of everything that has happened in history in God's name and, in fact, quite often specifically commanded by God. This is the same God that Christians worship today, is it not? If what happened back in the Old Testament days has nothing to do with you and your faith, why not just stop printing the OT altogether and you'll have yourself a smaller, nicer little Bible with only the New Testament in it. To ignore a large part of the history of Christianity is dishonest and, quite frankly, hypocritical.
> 
> Christianity is Islam's older brother, it's calmed down and is looking for a wife, while Islam is still in it's rebellious teen years but that doesn't erase the fact that Christianity was very naughty in it's younger days. It also doesn't ignore the fact that Islam needs a good smack in the chops...


You left out a very important detail, Jesus did die, but he conquered death and the grave. As for why not stop printing the OT altogether it's because it teaches our history and the fullfillment of the prophecies that point us to Jesus. Also, no one has said that Christianity has been innocent in everything, but as I asked in another post, should we wait for a few hundred years for Islam to grow up and stop murdering innocents in terrorist attacks? Sorry, I'm not willing to do that.


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## Sonshine (Jul 27, 2007)

Truckinguy said:


> I've stated twice in my posts that I'm not defending Islam, you really need to read more carefully.
> 
> The Bible also calls for the deaths of unbelievers and those who worship other Gods. You've never seen Christians do those things in the bolded part because it doesn't happen now but it has happened (except for the planes, of course!). Christians over history have destroyed countless temples of other religions and killed millions of people.
> 
> Islam needs to be opposed with all the force in the world but the superior "We would never do that" attitude is a bit hypocritical.


Sorry, but who has said we would never do that? Who has said Christians have never done it? The thing is, most of us live in this century, not hundreds of years ago when the crusades happened or whatever atrocity you are speaking of. To compare Islam of today with Christianity of today is being disingenius.


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## Marshloft (Mar 24, 2008)

Truckinguy said:


> I don't think you were around during the New Testament days either but I'll bet you claim to be saved by a man who lived and died back then. You can't have it both ways. If you claim the Bible, you claim the entire Bible. You can't just take the good parts and ignore the rest. All of it is relevant.
> 
> Christians need to take ownership of everything that has happened in history in God's name and, in fact, quite often specifically commanded by God. This is the same God that Christians worship today, is it not? If what happened back in the Old Testament days has nothing to do with you and your faith, why not just stop printing the OT altogether and you'll have yourself a smaller, nicer little Bible with only the New Testament in it. To ignore a large part of the history of Christianity is dishonest and, quite frankly, hypocritical.
> 
> Christianity is Islam's older brother, it's calmed down and is looking for a wife, while Islam is still in it's rebellious teen years but that doesn't erase the fact that Christianity was very naughty in it's younger days. It also doesn't ignore the fact that Islam needs a good smack in the chops...





Sonshine said:


> You left out a very important detail, Jesus did die, but he conquered death and the grave. As for why not stop printing the OT altogether it's because it teaches our history and the fullfillment of the prophecies that point us to Jesus. Also, no one has said that Christianity has been innocent in everything, but as I asked in another post, should we wait for a few hundred years for Islam to grow up and stop murdering innocents in terrorist attacks? Sorry, I'm not willing to do that.


 Truckinguy: Not sure I can answer anything. But,, I see you have a valid point in not seeing anyone accept the God of the old testament as also the God of the new testament.
God is the same today, yesterday and forever. He hasn't changed.
And yes,, we need to take ownership of the old as well as the new. And we do. When you come to an understanding of God the Father, with all His attributes, His infalibility,, His Love for mankind, you establish His character.
I might now not fully understand everything He did in the OT. But I do understand He had a reason. Everything God has done from creation till now has a purpose
All I know for sure is,, that their are 66 books in the bible,, which was written over a 600 year period of time, all pointing in one direction.
Sonshine mentioned the why we still hold and read the OT, it has history,,, it shows the prophesies that was needed to show who the messiah was to be.
When one accepts Christ as the son,, and God as the Father, and we recieve the Holy Spirit, Gods word comes alive. It becomes a living, breathing instrument. I'd give my life that you and anyone else would come to know Him. I really would.
If I havn't explained it in a fashion thats understandable to you,,, its because I just don;t know how.
GH


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## Tricky Grama (Oct 7, 2006)

Haven said:


> The only difference between you and some other people is that you choose to only see what one religion has done through the ages, while believing your own religion and gov't is blameless in the matter. Others look at the full picture and see what many religions have done to each other. Empathy is the ability to step outside of yourself and put yourself in the shoes of another culture or person. I'm sure your opinion would change if they have been invading, occupying and killing women an children for years on US soil. Many Middle Eastern people have grown up for generations in streets torn apart and occupied by US troops; you cannot blame them for lashing back, and I am not saying it makes it right to bomb US buildings either. You would feel the same in their shoes. They are human just like you and I, and that Muslim woman with a child on her arm wants the same peace and protection for her child as you ant for yours. The Christians, Jews and other religions have been killing each other in the region for thousands of years..


Actually, some of what you say is not really correct.
Like the head of Isreal once said: "There will not be peace until Palestinians love their children more than they hate Israel."
This is b/c many train their children to be suicide bombers.

War is 'heck'. There will always be atrocities in war, its why people detest it. I love our country and firmly believe we take the utmost measures to prevent the killing of innocents. Unlike radical Islam, which, BTW is a theocratic political movement, bent on achieving a world caliphate.

I maintain most muslims are nice, wonderful people. Many of us have met or known some. But it is a fact that soe are radicalized, even here in our country.

Perhaps you heard about the group who had a "charity" in Richardson, TX. Happens to be the suburb ajacent to my city-maybe 10 mi from my home. I know folks who lived in the same neighborhoods as the people who ran it & many who worked there. Very aggressive in raising $$, very 'devout' and dedicated to their cause.
Shortly after 9/11/01 they were all arrested, headquarters cleared out, FBI all over, b/c they were funnelling the $$ to ME terrorists. 

So I suspect a lot of people around here are wary.

BTW, I saw the video that you mentioned. And had a very different view than you did. 
Just sayin'.


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## Laura Zone 5 (Jan 13, 2010)

Sonshine said:


> LOL That was the original post, but got sidetracked into something not having anything to do with the bill boards, so free speech is not in play.


Thanks for the heads up. Glad I didn't waste a bunch of time reading 5 pages of comments that had nothing to do with the OP.


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## Immaculate Sublimity (Apr 30, 2003)

By your previous comment..... we knew that :wink:


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## Trixie (Aug 25, 2006)

I wonder if, in fact, all Muslims are our enemy and hate us so much, why is our government allowing so many to come into the country - legally and illegally?

Evidently, our government doesn't consider them our enemy.

We have an open border, anyone and anything can come across that border - why are they letting that happen?


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## Marshloft (Mar 24, 2008)

Trixie said:


> I wonder if, in fact, all Muslims are our enemy and hate us so much, why is our government allowing so many to come into the country - legally and illegally?
> 
> Evidently, our government doesn't consider them our enemy.
> 
> We have an open border, anyone and anything can come across that border - why are they letting that happen?


 Good question,,, good luck on getting an answer


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## Trixie (Aug 25, 2006)

Marshloft said:


> Good question,,, good luck on getting an answer


I won't get an answer - from our government and it seems a lot of American aren't even questioning it.

I don't understand why we allowed our government to get us involved in two horrible wars based on the fact we were fighting terrorists. All this time, we leave our borders open. This is a fact well known to the rest of the world, since people from all over the world are coming across that border. Our government is aware they are coming, just don't know how many, where they go when the arrive, or their intentions.

Yet, they somehow still have a lot of Americans believing we are actually fighting against terrorists for our safety?????


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## Tricky Grama (Oct 7, 2006)

And it seems like its not even a big deal that one of these-came here legally, I'm assuming-just tried to bomb the fed reserve building in NYC.
Why isn't that front page news?


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## Immaculate Sublimity (Apr 30, 2003)

Trixie said:


> I wonder if, in fact, all Muslims are our enemy and hate us so much, why is our government allowing so many to come into the country - legally and illegally?
> 
> Evidently, our government doesn't consider them our enemy.
> 
> We have an open border, anyone and anything can come across that border - why are they letting that happen?


I've been wondering this for 2 decades.


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## Truckinguy (Mar 8, 2008)

> Truckinguy: Not sure I can answer anything. But,, I see you have a valid point in not seeing anyone accept the God of the old testament as also the God of the new testament.
> God is the same today, yesterday and forever. He hasn't changed.
> And yes,, we need to take ownership of the old as well as the new. And we do. When you come to an understanding of God the Father, with all His attributes, His infalibility,, His Love for mankind, you establish His character.
> I might now not fully understand everything He did in the OT. But I do understand He had a reason. Everything God has done from creation till now has a purpose
> ...


Thanks Marshloft, I don't expect everyone on both sides of the discussion to completely understand the other but just to be open minded enough to see other's point of view. I understand your's and Sonshine's point of view as I was raised very strict Christian until I was 16 and I was a strong believer. However, due to circumstances, I no longer follow that path but I consider myself fortunate to be able to see both sides of the issue.

As I've stated a couple of times, I'm not defending Islam. Anyone, whether it be an organization or an individual, who is violent and disrespects human rights needs to be set straight. My point, although seemingly poorly stated, was that while Christians are condemning and combating the spread of Islam (and rightly so) they need to keep in mind that their organization has a bloody past and can't get too high and mighty about it.


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## postroad (Jan 19, 2009)

ET1 SS said:


> Could you please provide for us a Bible passage for this claim?


Would a whole chapter suffice.
Deuteronomy 13 

New International Version 1984 (NIV1984)


Worshiping Other Gods

13 If a prophet, or one who foretells by dreams, appears among you and announces to you a miraculous sign or wonder, 2 and if the sign or wonder of which he has spoken takes place, and he says, &#8220;Let us follow other gods&#8221; (gods you have not known) &#8220;and let us worship them,&#8221; 3 you must not listen to the words of that prophet or dreamer. The Lord your God is testing you to find out whether you love him with all your heart and with all your soul. 4 It is the Lord your God you must follow, and him you must revere. Keep his commands and obey him; serve him and hold fast to him. 5 That prophet or dreamer must be put to death, because he preached rebellion against the Lord your God, who brought you out of Egypt and redeemed you from the land of slavery; he has tried to turn you from the way the Lord your God commanded you to follow. You must purge the evil from among you.

6 If your very own brother, or your son or daughter, or the wife you love, or your closest friend secretly entices you, saying, &#8220;Let us go and worship other gods&#8221; (gods that neither you nor your fathers have known, 7 gods of the peoples around you, whether near or far, from one end of the land to the other), 8 do not yield to him or listen to him. Show him no pity. Do not spare him or shield him. 9 You must certainly put him to death. Your hand must be the first in putting him to death, and then the hands of all the people. 10 Stone him to death, because he tried to turn you away from the Lord your God, who brought you out of Egypt, out of the land of slavery. 11 Then all Israel will hear and be afraid, and no one among you will do such an evil thing again.

12 If you hear it said about one of the towns the Lord your God is giving you to live in 13 that wicked men have arisen among you and have led the people of their town astray, saying, &#8220;Let us go and worship other gods&#8221; (gods you have not known), 14 then you must inquire, probe and investigate it thoroughly. And if it is true and it has been proved that this detestable thing has been done among you, 15 you must certainly put to the sword all who live in that town. Destroy it completely,[a] both its people and its livestock. 16 Gather all the plunder of the town into the middle of the public square and completely burn the town and all its plunder as a whole burnt offering to the Lord your God. It is to remain a ruin forever, never to be rebuilt. 17 None of those condemned things* shall be found in your hands, so that the Lord will turn from his fierce anger; he will show you mercy, have compassion on you, and increase your numbers, as he promised on oath to your forefathers, 18 because you obey the Lord your God, keeping all his commands that I am giving you today and doing what is right in his eyes.*


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## Marshloft (Mar 24, 2008)

Truckinguy said:


> * I was raised very strict Christian *until I was 16 and I was a strong believer. However, due to circumstances, I no longer follow that path but I consider myself fortunate to be able to see both sides of the issue.
> 
> they need to keep in mind that their organization has a bloody past and can't get too high and mighty about it.


 We could have been brothers. I was adopted at age 6 into a very strict baptist family.
Ran away for the 3rd time at age 14 and never looked back. Got tired of the physical/mental abuse. But at around 30,, I started studying again to search for the truth about God. I found God to be real, and Christ to be more about freedom than a legalistic religeon I was brought up in.
Realizing God chose me,, I didn't choose Him, you're correct, we have no right to be high and mighty, if anything,, its very humbling.
GH


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## fordy (Sep 13, 2003)

Truckinguy said:


> Thanks Marshloft, I don't expect everyone on both sides of the discussion to completely understand the other but just to be open minded enough to see other's point of view. I understand your's and Sonshine's point of view as I was raised very strict Christian until I was 16 and I was a strong believer. However, due to circumstances, I no longer follow that path but I consider myself fortunate to be able to see both sides of the issue.
> 
> As I've stated a couple of times, I'm not defending Islam. Anyone, whether it be an organization or an individual, who is violent and disrespects human rights needs to be set straight. My point, although seemingly poorly stated, was that while Christians are condemning and combating the spread of Islam (and rightly so) they need to keep in mind that their organization has a bloody past and can't get too high and mighty about it.



................Too clarify.........I don't hate Muslims in Toto , rather for myself and a lot of others on here I(think) we are trying too say that , we , cannot assume that all Muslims residing here are , NON Jihadists ! MISTRUST is the Docterine has kept the Jews from being overwhelmed by the Arabs who would do such . Is there any reason why we , as a country , should do otherwise , IF we want too survive ? I think not , but , "Trust but verify" is the shortest way I can state how I feel . , fordy


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## beowoulf90 (Jan 13, 2004)

fordy said:


> ................Too clarify.........I don't hate Muslims in Toto , rather for myself and a lot of others on here I(think) we are trying too say that , we , cannot assume that all Muslims residing here are , NON Jihadists ! MISTRUST is the Docterine has kept the Jews from being overwhelmed by the Arabs who would do such . Is there any reason why we , as a country , should do otherwise , IF we want too survive ? I think not , but , "Trust but verify" is the shortest way I can state how I feel . , fordy


I think the above says it well!

I don't hate anyone for their religious beliefs.. But when said people associate with groups who spread hate and terror, be it AQ, the KKK, NBP etc.. it makes no difference.. I no longer trust the said people..

These groups breed hate and violence, thus deserving of my wary eye and distrust..


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## Sonshine (Jul 27, 2007)

Truckinguy said:


> Thanks Marshloft, I don't expect everyone on both sides of the discussion to completely understand the other but just to be open minded enough to see other's point of view. I understand your's and Sonshine's point of view as I was raised very strict Christian until I was 16 and I was a strong believer. However, due to circumstances, I no longer follow that path but I consider myself fortunate to be able to see both sides of the issue.
> 
> As I've stated a couple of times, I'm not defending Islam. Anyone, whether it be an organization or an individual, who is violent and disrespects human rights needs to be set straight. My point, although seemingly poorly stated, was that while Christians are condemning and combating the spread of Islam (and rightly so) they need to keep in mind that their organization has a bloody past and can't get too high and mighty about it.


I'm well aware of Christianity's past. The key word being "past". It's what's happening today that concerns me. It's what's going to affect my DS that concerns me. I had nothing to do with the past. I can't change the past. All we can hope to do is change what is currently happening. To do anything other than see Islam as a threat, IMO, is dangerous. I wouldn't cozy up to a rattlesnake and I wouldn't trust a Muslim. Not until they can prove, by speaking out against the radicals, that they stand for peace.


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## jefferson (Nov 11, 2004)

Come on ladies. Take a break, go outside, and write your name in the snow.


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## reluctantpatriot (Mar 9, 2003)

I believe what I see with my own eyes. Christians are a peaceful people, so much so:

--My Southern Baptist Christian stepmother threatened to kill me with the switchblade knife he had in her hand a few hours before my mother picked me up to take me out of state to live with my grandparents. That Christian stepmother also psychologically, emotionally and physically abused me.

--My stepbrother and stepsister also psychologically, emotionally and physically abused me, especially because I would not believe in lockstep with them, their mother and their Southern Baptist Christian church.

--My Southern Baptist Christian high school teacher psychologically and emotionally abused a Catholic classmate during Lent. He also threw not only me but other classmates into lockers and basketball team members into bleachers on a regular basis. He also said AIDS was god's gift to homosexuals.

--Christians kill abortion doctors, blow up abortion clinics, harass women trying to obtain abortions.

--Christians regularly bullied me in school because I did not believe as they did.

--Christians call for laws against abortion with no provisions for rape or incest. They also call for laws such as one allowing the death penalty for misbehaving children.

--Christians call for the buring of Korans.

--Christians picket funerals to point out the fact that dead soldiers, marines and sailors are because god hates the United States.

--Christians have threatened my life on more than one occasion because I refused to believe as they do. They also had the means to make good on their threats.

Since all Muslims are guilty because of their faith, I view all Christians as a clear and present danger to my safety. Logic is logic.


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## Tricky Grama (Oct 7, 2006)

I'm sorry those things happened to you. Just horrendous.
Those folks were not 'Christains'.
Just so ya know.

Having said that, your case in no way shows that there is a mandate by Christains to kill all those who are not followers.
In no way does it show a concerted effort for all Christains to behave in the manner that you were treated.

For those who cannot see the difference, in evil people thru the world vs an entire theocractc political movement, I feel sorry.


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## reluctantpatriot (Mar 9, 2003)

Tricky Grama said:


> I'm sorry those things happened to you. Just horrendous.
> Those folks were not 'Christains'.
> Just so ya know.
> 
> ...


Unfortunately, my logic is as valid as yours is about Muslims. I have had my life threatened and I have seen more localized threats due to Christians than I have Muslims. In fact, I have never had my life threatened by a single Muslim nor have we had a localized threat event due to a Muslim. Christians, however, are another matter. 

You can worry about Muslims all you want. I keep my eye on Christians as my experiences dicatate that they have been, are, and will continue to be a threat to be aware of. My logic is as valid as yours is, though I focus my concerns on the nearness of threat.

I put all Christians into the same group as you do all Muslims.


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## Tricky Grama (Oct 7, 2006)

That is certainly your perogative.
You have to protect yourself.
The rest of us see the world situation as well as some things in our country. Isolated cases of mean Christains are certainly true. However as a group, you can pretty well rest assured they'll not take over the world and behead folks, force sharia law on countries and stamp out all other ideals. 
Islam is a theocratic political moverment.


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## Truckinguy (Mar 8, 2008)

> I'm well aware of Christianity's past. The key word being "past". It's what's happening today that concerns me. It's what's going to affect my DS that concerns me. I had nothing to do with the past. I can't change the past. All we can hope to do is change what is currently happening. To do anything other than see Islam as a threat, IMO, is dangerous. I wouldn't cozy up to a rattlesnake and I wouldn't trust a Muslim. Not until they can prove, by speaking out against the radicals, that they stand for peace.


I agree with you that we must change what is happening in the present and I know that Christians in general have stood up and denounced their more radical brethren. I support Christianity because we need a buffer against Islam and I regard Christianity as the lesser of two evils.



> However as a group, you can pretty well rest assured they'll not take over the world and behead folks, force sharia law on countries and stamp out all other ideals.


Christians may not be threatening to blow up my house or cut off my head but, given the opportunity, they would jump at the chance to convert the entire world to Christianity and impose laws based on their own moral code, much of which I disagree with. They may be a lot more passive about it but they're constantly out there trying to convert people and trying to convince the rest of us that we're lost/sinful/dirty/worthless and we can only have value if we let some fictional entity "save" us. Christianity and Islam have the same endgame but are going about it in two different ways, Christianity more passive and subversive and Islam more open and violent.


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## Tricky Grama (Oct 7, 2006)

Well, I'm SURE it must be "Christains" who are doing this also.
Can't blame everything on terrorist islamics.

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SFHM0rd9cX8&feature=share&fb_source=message]Economic Warfare Super Panel - William Scott - YouTube[/ame]


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## Sonshine (Jul 27, 2007)

Truckinguy said:


> I agree with you that we must change what is happening in the present and I know that Christians in general have stood up and denounced their more radical brethren. I support Christianity because we need a buffer against Islam and I regard Christianity as the lesser of two evils.
> 
> 
> 
> Christians may not be threatening to blow up my house or cut off my head but, given the opportunity, they would jump at the chance to convert the entire world to Christianity and impose laws based on their own moral code, much of which I disagree with. They may be a lot more passive about it but they're constantly out there trying to convert people and trying to convince the rest of us that we're lost/sinful/dirty/worthless and we can only have value if we let some fictional entity "save" us. Christianity and Islam have the same endgame but are going about it in two different ways, Christianity more passive and subversive and Islam more open and violent.


Most of the laws we have today are the same laws we see in the Bible. You know, the whole thou shall not kill, thou shall not steal etc. Christians should be trying to convert others, if they truly believe what the scriptures say, however, if they threaten your life if you don't convert, then it's something to be concerned about. I'm a Christian, but I try not to browbeat others. I figure I can't make anyone believe as I do, all I can do is try to live my life in such a way that others are curious and come to me. I can't save anyone, all I can do is be who God has called me to be. IMO, that's the way the scriptures tell us to be. So I have problems understanding how people can make the comparisons between Christians and Muslims. You have even stated that Christians are more passive and subversive. I guess I figure if people that don't believe have the rights to share that with me, then I have the right to share my beliefs. If people don't want to hear what I have to say, then they certainly can walk away from me. KWIM?


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## reluctantpatriot (Mar 9, 2003)

Tricky Grama said:


> Islam is a theocratic political moverment.


So is the Christian Dominionist movement.


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## JeffreyD (Dec 27, 2006)

reluctantpatriot said:


> So is the Christian Dominionist movement.


Never heard of that one!

eta: Interesting that only a select few even use this term! Liberals mostly it seems!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dominionism

the term in this sense is almost exclusively used by journalists and bloggers,[1] and there is an ongoing debate about its usefulness

full adherents to Reconstructionism are few and marginalized among conservative Christians

Journalist Anthony Williams charged that such usage aims "to smear the Republican Party as the party of domestic Theocracy, facts be ----ed."[50] Journalist Stanley Kurtz labeled it "conspiratorial nonsense", "political paranoia", and "guilt by association",[51] and decried Hedges' "vague characterizations" that allow him to "paint a highly questionable picture of a virtually faceless and nameless 'Dominionist' Christian mass."[52] Kurtz also complained about a perceived link between average Christian evangelicals and extremism such as Christian Reconstructionism:

The notion that conservative Christians want to reinstitute slavery and rule by genocide is not just crazy, it's downright dangerous. The most disturbing part of the Harper's cover story (the one by Chris Hedges) was the attempt to link Christian conservatives with Hitler and fascism. Once we acknowledge the similarity between conservative Christians and fascists, Hedges appears to suggest, we can confront Christian evil by setting aside 'the old polite rules of democracy.' So wild conspiracy theories and visions of genocide are really excuses for the Left to disregard the rules of democracy and defeat conservative Christians &#8212; by any means necessary.

[T]here is no &#8220;school of thought&#8221; known as &#8220;dominionism.&#8221; *The term was coined in the 1980s by Diamond and is never used outside liberal blogs and websites*. No reputable scholars use the term for it is a meaningless neologism that Diamond concocted for her dissertation.


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## Tricky Grama (Oct 7, 2006)

reluctantpatriot said:


> So is the Christian Dominionist movement.


And you wanna show us how they are beheading, killing, blowing up themselves & others all over the world?
Do you have access to news?
Take a look at the ME.


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## postroad (Jan 19, 2009)

JeffreyD said:


> Never heard of that one!
> 
> eta: Interesting that only a select few even use this term! Liberals mostly it seems!
> 
> ...


The end of the age can not come untl all earthly powers and dominion is disolved.

Daniel 7:14
He was given authority, glory and sovereign power; all peoples, nations and men of every language worshiped him. His dominion is an everlasting dominion that will not pass away, and his kingdom is one that will never be destroyed.

Corinthians 15:24
Then the end will come, when he hands over the kingdom to God the Father after he has destroyed all dominion, authority and power.


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## JeffreyD (Dec 27, 2006)

postroad said:


> The end of the age can not come untl all earthly powers and dominion is disolved.
> 
> Daniel 7:14
> He was given authority, glory and sovereign power; all peoples, nations and men of every language worshiped him. His dominion is an everlasting dominion that will not pass away, and his kingdom is one that will never be destroyed.
> ...


The word "dominionism" was being discused!


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## Gercarson (Nov 2, 2003)

Tricky Grama said:


> And you wanna show us how they are beheading, killing, blowing up themselves & others all over the world?
> Do you have access to news?
> Take a look at the ME.


Actually the only real radical muslim is the one who does NOT adhere to the Koran.
Islam's Koran is what makes a muslim a muslim - IF they follow the brutality of the Koran then they ARE muslims - those who do not, well, they ain't muslim.
The Holy Bible - The New Testament is what makes a Christian a Christian - IF they follow the teachings of JESUS then they are truly Christian - those who skirt the New Testament and commit UN-Christian acts are lying and only using Christianity because they can't think of what they actually are.
So, those who do NOT follow the Koran are NOT muslim and having studied Islam for a long, long time I know that it is a heinous political ideology that parades as a "religion" to keep its adherants to a very, very strict political way of thinking. Step outside of it and you're dead. There is NO personal freedom - those who say otherwise are lying or are NOT muslim.
Christians actually abide by the GREATEST law - Love God with all your heart and soul and the second is like the first - love your neighbor as yourself.
Oh, and true research will show that Islam didn't evolve from the Old Testament but from the worship of the moon and the black rock that they all circle during after their pilgrimage (hajj) to Mecca. So, Christians worship God and muslims worship a black rock - study Islam - for some REAL enlightenment. NO comparison no matter how much propaganda Islam spews out about being a fuzzy, warm religion of "peace".


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## Tricky Grama (Oct 7, 2006)

Truckinguy said:


> I agree with you that we must change what is happening in the present and I know that Christians in general have stood up and denounced their more radical brethren. I support Christianity because we need a buffer against Islam and I regard Christianity as the lesser of two evils.
> 
> 
> 
> Christians may not be threatening to blow up my house or cut off my head but, given the opportunity, they would jump at the chance to convert the entire world to Christianity and impose laws based on their own moral code, much of which I disagree with. They may be a lot more passive about it but they're constantly out there trying to convert people and trying to convince the rest of us that we're lost/sinful/dirty/worthless and we can only have value if we let some fictional entity "save" us. Christianity and Islam have the same endgame but are going about it in two different ways, Christianity more passive and subversive and Islam more open and violent.


Eveyone has an opinion. 
You may be better served by living in an Islam state, then. Since our laws are based on Judeo-Christian philosophy, you'll have some influence here. Its our Constitution. "...rights endowed by our Creator..." ya know.
Egypt is prolly a good example...they'll not allow anything Christain in a short time...


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## postroad (Jan 19, 2009)

JeffreyD said:


> The word "dominionism" was being discused!




Yes and I showed that there are texts that support that concept


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## reluctantpatriot (Mar 9, 2003)

I am more likely to be killed by a Christian than a Muslim. Christians are more likely to blow up something or kill someone in the Midwest than any Muslim.

Using your logic and means of reasoning, Christians are a much larger threat to safety and security than any Muslims based on past incidents in my area.


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## JeffreyD (Dec 27, 2006)

reluctantpatriot said:


> I am more likely to be killed by a Christian than a Muslim. Christians are more likely to blow up something or kill someone in the Midwest than any Muslim.
> 
> Using your logic and means of reasoning, Christians are a much larger threat to safety and security than any Muslims based on past incidents in my area.



links please!


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## Gercarson (Nov 2, 2003)

reluctantpatriot said:


> I am more likely to be killed by a Christian than a Muslim. Christians are more likely to blow up something or kill someone in the Midwest than any Muslim.
> 
> Using your logic and means of reasoning, Christians are a much larger threat to safety and security than any Muslims based on past incidents in my area.


If someone who "says" they are Christian and blows up "something" or kills "someone" then they might as well tell you they are from Mars and I'm suspecting you would believe THAT too. What was it about "Love thy neighbor" that went over your head?


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