# Just Great....Chainsaw locked up!



## JawjaBoy (Jan 21, 2013)

Decided to break out the chainsaw yesterday morning and cut up some limbs that the ice brought down last week and also needed to cut up an old light pole. Saw fired right up so I let it idle for a few minutes and then revved it up about half throttle for 10-15 seconds. When I let off the throttle it just STOPPED. No idle down at all, just full stop. Pulled on the starter rope and it would not budge. 

Took the rope housing and top cover off. Wiggled the flywheel and it would move backwards just a bit. Wiggled it a little and it started moving both directions, but only a little. Pulled the spark plug and shined a light into the cylinder. Not sure but it looks like there may be metal chips in there. Just super. Saw is only about 2 years old and really hasn't been used hard. Looks like it will be going to the shop as soon as I can get it there. Probably this friday. Really hoping it's not as serious as my gut is telling me it is. 

Why is it that all of my stuff seems to know exactly when I'm getting my tax refund to bread down???


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## bikehealer1 (Oct 8, 2009)

how old was the mix and what ratio were you using?


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## JawjaBoy (Jan 21, 2013)

Mix called for is 50:1. I usually add a bit more oil just because, so probably a 45:1 ratio. Mix was probably 2 months old and consisted of Husqvarna oil and stabilized non ethanol gas. Never had any problems at all with this saw before so this is kind of ticking me off.


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## topofmountain (Nov 1, 2013)

Pull the head & see what has happened. Metal doesn't sound good. I always run my saws richer than called for. I like a 40:1 mixture myself.


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## copperkid3 (Mar 18, 2005)

What brand of saw is it?

Some have a certain expressed life cycle measured in hours . . .

in which the manufactors have figured out to avoid any warranty problems.


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## Bret (Oct 3, 2003)

Any chance that the break got bumped? I know you already check it.


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## Bret (Oct 3, 2003)

I always love a chainsaw thread. Especially while mine are running...for now. 

That's why you should always borrow things. That way, when they break, you can just take them back. 

I would never really do that.


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## topofmountain (Nov 1, 2013)

He either must be working on it or got it fixed.


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## wendle (Feb 22, 2006)

What kind is it? 
I want to be sure not to get that one.


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## MichaelZ (May 21, 2013)

What can happen is the chain can lock up. Could that have happened here? Did you remove the chain and check the chain sprocket to see that it moved freely? 

My sprocket will lock up on occasion - I have to take the chain off and free it up and clean it up.


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## Gray Wolf (Jan 25, 2013)

Don't forget to shake the saw and shake the can if they have been sitting a long time.


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## JawjaBoy (Jan 21, 2013)

Sorry I have taken so long to reply, just got in from work.

Saw is a Husqvarna 435. It is about 2 to 2 1/2 years old and has not been abused. It is mainly used for general trimming with some occasional felling and woodcutting. Never really used hard at all. Chain brake is NOT on and chain moves freely on the bar. Whatever it is, it's inside apparently. 

Did pull the plug again and tried to turn the flywheel. Flywheel will move just a bit in either direction, but from what I could tell the piston is NOT moving. All I'm going by is what I could see by shining a flashlight into the spark plug hole.

Thanks for the replies. I'm hoping to find out the problem when I take the saw to the shop and will post the results.


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## Gray Wolf (Jan 25, 2013)

Piston may be seized from too lean a mix. Nothing to do for it now.


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## alleyyooper (Apr 22, 2005)

Echo's are famous for coming from the factory set to lean. 

Even a straight gassed saw that seized are rebuildable. Many times just clean up the cylinder with muric acid is all that is required and then install a new piston and rings. Some times only new rings will work if the grooves are not to bunged up on the piston. 


At least the saw waited till you would have some money on hand to repair it.


 Al


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## bikehealer1 (Oct 8, 2009)

topofmountain said:


> Pull the head & see what has happened. Metal doesn't sound good. I always run my saws richer than called for. I like a 40:1 mixture myself.


running more oil in the mix means less gas to burn, which means a leaner run condition. which means more heat in the combustion chamber. you see my line of thought here...


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## logbuilder (Jan 31, 2006)

bikehealer1 said:


> running more oil in the mix means less gas to burn, which means a leaner run condition. which means more heat in the combustion chamber. you see my line of thought here...


Sorry but I'm not sure I agree with you. Whether you are lean or rich is dependent on the carb settings, not the oil/gas mixture. Now it is true that you can be running rich on the carb setting and still burn up the rings with an inadequate oil/gas mixture but that isn't a function of the carb settings.


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## Gray Wolf (Jan 25, 2013)

My guess is still with the oil setteling out over a few months and the saw and/or gas can not being shook up to remix prior to starting. Saw ran "lean" as far as oil mixture goes and seized. Carb probably is set ok if it used to run.

Let us know what actually happened.


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## topofmountain (Nov 1, 2013)

bikehealer1 said:


> running more oil in the mix means less gas to burn, which means a leaner run condition. which means more heat in the combustion chamber. you see my line of thought here...


I'm not sure, but what I do know is I have run many saws & two cycle engines that way for 40 years & never lost or burned up an engine. So for now I'll stick with what has proven a success for years. One two cylce engine that comes to mind is I ran a Homelite Weed Eater for 20 years that way.


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## lonelytree (Feb 28, 2008)

Pull the muffler and look at the piston and ring.


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## Jolly (Jan 8, 2004)

Gray Wolf said:


> My guess is still with the oil setteling out over a few months and the saw and/or gas can not being shook up to remix prior to starting. Saw ran "lean" as far as oil mixture goes and seized. Carb probably is set ok if it used to run.
> 
> Let us know what actually happened.


My money is on your answer.

I broke a Husky doing just what you described...didn't shake the saw and the piston galded. Nowadays, I drain my saws when I put them up and I shake the gas can everytime I put gas in a saw.


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## Madsaw (Feb 26, 2008)

The gas/oil mix has been debated to death over the years. Yes a high mix ratio will cause a Kean condition in saws. Why? With more oil and less gas. There is less gas to cool the cylinder and piston internally. If you run a high mix ratio and adjust the carb richer then your fine.


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## bikehealer1 (Oct 8, 2009)

problem is, a lot of the new 2 stroke equipment comes preset now a days and if you try to do an adjustment you void the warranty.


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## logbuilder (Jan 31, 2006)

bikehealer1 said:


> problem is, a lot of the new *inexpensive *2 stroke equipment comes preset now a days and if you try to do an adjustment you void the warranty.


Bolded word added.

Most all good quality chainsaws are meant to be used year round. Part of the maintenance is adjusting the carb. It can change based on time of year. I'd never buy a saw that kept me from being able to adjust. What's next, can't adjust chains?


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## Madsaw (Feb 26, 2008)

The gas/oil mix was not the issue with this saw. It was not running long enough to score it.
The indications here lean toward dropping a c clip or a piston ring broke. The fact there is metal ****** on top of the piston is the indicator. Also could be a bearing failure.
Now talking about not being able to adjust carbs on saws. Poulan needs a special screw driver, smaller stihl are nonadjustable too. They are only adjustable for idle and low side. These style if carbs can be found on the ms260 even.


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## alleyyooper (Apr 22, 2005)

I have ever heard of a 2 cycle mix separating if you use a good grade of oil and gas meant for the appaclation.
My snow blower is a 2 stroke and I sure don't shake it before starting it after setting all summer. But I don't use some non named weird oil either.

 Al


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## logbuilder (Jan 31, 2006)

alleyyooper said:


> I have ever heard of a 2 cycle mix separating if you use a good grade of oil and gas meant for the appaclation.
> My snow blower is a 2 stroke and I sure don't shake it before starting it after setting all summer. But I don't use some non named weird oil either.
> 
> Al


A more surefire method of assuring against gas problems is to drain it (or run it dry) before storing for long periods.


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## Gray Wolf (Jan 25, 2013)

The oil will seperate over time. Shaking is a good idea.

50:1 saws can be run with 50:1, 40:1, 30:1. Higher oil mixes will just foul the plug faster.


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## Madsaw (Feb 26, 2008)

Just the act of picking the saw up and starting it will remix the fuel. Yes saws can run any mix as long as the carb us adjusted accordingly. The failure here was more then likely mechanical in nature.


Gray Wolf said:


> The oil will seperate over time. Shaking is a good idea.
> 
> 50:1 saws can be run with 50:1, 40:1, 30:1. Higher oil mixes will just foul the plug faster.


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## alleyyooper (Apr 22, 2005)

Straight gassed ya think?



No and it had the correct mix and was only 5 years old when it fried the ring to the piston. 

Just a tiny air filter crack caused this.

 Al


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## bikehealer1 (Oct 8, 2009)

logbuilder said:


> Bolded word added.
> 
> Most all good quality chainsaws are meant to be used year round. Part of the maintenance is adjusting the carb. It can change based on time of year. I'd never buy a saw that kept me from being able to adjust. What's next, can't adjust chains?


change noted. I know all to well about adjusting carbs for air temprature variations as I do it for a living, everyday. And did you not get the memo concerning chains last year? Future saws will be belt drive...:spinsmiley:


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## oneraddad (Jul 20, 2010)

It's a 2-stroke with very few moving parts, take the head and cylinder off and see whats going on.


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## JawjaBoy (Jan 21, 2013)

I have been busy at work lately so I just got the saw dropped off at the mechanic's house yesterday. He said he should be able to tell me something by Tuesday or Wednesday. 

REALLY hoping it's nothing major, but knowing my luck it will be.:grump:


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## puttster (Oct 4, 2013)

Once a neighbor from England came over to ask me why his saw froze up. I asked, "Did you put oil in it?" and he said, "No, it was an electric model."

Putts


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## JawjaBoy (Jan 21, 2013)

Well, I got a call from the mechanic and the news is not good. According to him, the bottom end let go and will cost nearly as much to rebuild as it would to buy a new one. So I guess I'll go pick it up tomorrow. I may check with Husky and see if I have any options. If all else fails, I like to tinker with stuff so I may take it apart myself and practice my two stroke mechanicing.


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## logbuilder (Jan 31, 2006)

JawjaBoy said:


> Well, I got a call from the mechanic and the news is not good. According to him, the bottom end let go and will cost nearly as much to rebuild as it would to buy a new one. So I guess I'll go pick it up tomorrow. I may check with Husky and see if I have any options. If all else fails, I like to tinker with stuff so I may take it apart myself and practice my two stroke mechanicing.


I'm guessing that means the crank bearings and the rod needle bearings let go. If it did damage to the cases, that's a problem. However, if it is just bearings and possibly a rod, you might be able to fix for a reasonable price. Did you get any more specifics from the mechanic? If not, would he tell you?

Disclaimer: I don't know anything specific about Husqvarna chainsaw engines. Just general 2 cycle experience. I did have a '72 Husky WR 450 bike once.


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## alleyyooper (Apr 22, 2005)

Ifin your going to play with it your self you should get to know this great bunch of chain saw people. They are a lot of help finding parts and what not.

http://www.arboristsite.com/community/forums/chainsaw.9/

 Al


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## homstdr74 (Jul 4, 2011)

Buy a Stihl Farm Boss. That'll fix any problems you're having with Husqvarna.


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## idigbeets (Sep 3, 2011)

Hey now... let's not start a Stihl vs Husqvarna... (I'm guessing the saw in question was a rancher 445 or similar big box model, and not a REAL husqvarna saw).

The MS290 is a nice saw, I own one, along with an 028 super, 009, but I prefer cutting w/ my Husqvarna 346XP most of the time. For the big stuff I bust out the 372xp.


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## JawjaBoy (Jan 21, 2013)

All I got from him was that the piston moved when the flywheel was turned, but it would only go 3/4 turn each way before stopping. He mentioned the bearings, but also stated that parts and labor would be a good portion of what a new one would cost. I made the call not to go ahead. 

I am going to try one or two other options and then either try fixing it myself or get a new one. He did tell me that if I went with a new one, to look at Echo. He said he sees less problems from them than he does from either Husky or Stihl.


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## Bret (Oct 3, 2003)

I dropped a Husqy from eight feet. It soon heated up and seized. It was going to cost more to fix than to replace so I decided to take it apart and see what I could see. I found cracked plastic carb housing or something that I felt contributed to a lean mixture that lead to over heating. (Similar to an above post.) Replaced a piston that was scored. 

I fixed it for a little less than a new saw with my labor. I could not stand the thought of losing another saw after I destroyed a Craftsman with my field mower while clearing an old pasture.

I have two because one is never enough.


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## logbuilder (Jan 31, 2006)

JawjaBoy said:


> All I got from him was that the piston moved when the flywheel was turned, but it would only go 3/4 turn each way before stopping. He mentioned the bearings, but also stated that parts and labor would be a good portion of what a new one would cost. I made the call not to go ahead.
> 
> I am going to try one or two other options and then either try fixing it myself or get a new one. He did tell me that if I went with a new one, to look at Echo. He said he sees less problems from them than he does from either Husky or Stihl.


From what you describe, I wonder if you lost a piston skirt. It may be in the bottom and when the crank rod gets around to it, it hangs. Take off the chain and bar. Turn it upside down. Shake it and see if you can hear anything rattling.

Or maybe you lost a retainer clip on the piston pin and it is sticking out just enough to hit the bottom of the cylinder as it comes up. I doubt this one though.


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## logbuilder (Jan 31, 2006)

JawjaBoy said:


> He did tell me that if I went with a new one, to look at Echo. He said he sees less problems from them than he does from either Husky or Stihl.


Wow, never heard of a 2 cycle mechanic say that Echo is the best. Maybe they have improved greatly :shrug:


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## alleyyooper (Apr 22, 2005)

I like Echo two stroke equipment. Buy it from a dealer though not a box store. The chain saws have a reputation of coming from the factory to lean and soon melt down. Dealers know that and tune them to the area before they go out the door.

 Al


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