# Out of control again.



## 101pigs (Sep 18, 2018)

Arizona , Texas, Fl, Pamdemic out of control Tracks order to store bodies.


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## muleskinner2 (Oct 7, 2007)

It isn't going to be under control until this thing runs it's course. And if they keep changing the plan, that could take a very ling time. Of course in some parts of the country the bodies will be easier to store come winter. This winter is going to be interesting. The phrase, "You ain't seen anything yet" comes to mind.


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## barnbilder (Jul 1, 2005)

I always figured the reefer trucks were just for optics.


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## nchobbyfarm (Apr 10, 2011)

The pork industry is still not moving. Pork is going to be in short supply in the New Year even if a miracle cure is found tomorrow. 

I have no knowledge of the poultry and beef markets. 

The longer we don't make the sacrifices necessary to get this under control, the worse the pain will be for months or years to come. The damage from unintended consequences will be tremendous!


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## Farmerga (May 6, 2010)

Let it run its course. 99+% will be fine. Or, we could keep cowering until the economy is beyond repair and millions will die.


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## muleskinner2 (Oct 7, 2007)

The grocery stores in Arizona are already rationing meat. And the little grocery store near me is having trouble getting milk.


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## mreynolds (Jan 1, 2015)

All the articles I read on this is for just in case. They aren't using them yet. Houston has been using one since day one but only as a temp from hospital to morgue. Mostly a 24-48 hour period. And only when they need them. 

Lets hope they wont need them.


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## gilberte (Sep 25, 2004)

How long before cremation is the only option? No burials.


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## SLADE (Feb 20, 2004)

Houston, I think I've found the problem.


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## GTX63 (Dec 13, 2016)

Farmerga said:


> Let it run its course. 99+% will be fine. Or, we could keep cowering until the economy is beyond repair and millions will die.


I agree. And once I'm gone you won't be allowed to bury me so you will still have me to kick around.


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## mreynolds (Jan 1, 2015)

SLADE said:


> Houston, I think I've found the problem.


Which is?


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## mreynolds (Jan 1, 2015)

gilberte said:


> How long before cremation is the only option? No burials.


Let's hope it doesn't get to that.


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## CKelly78z (Jul 16, 2017)

Florida reported 100% positive COVID-19 tests from some labs. That's wrong, hospital system says.


The Lee Health hospital system says that its lab testing of potential COVID-19 cases has shown an overall positivity rate of about 18%.



www.usatoday.com





Florida had a test result anomaly....it seems that all tests were positive !


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## SLADE (Feb 20, 2004)

mreynolds said:


> Which is?


People without mask feeling entitled to infect others.


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

SLADE said:


> People without mask feeling entitled to infect others.


That's been refuted countless times.








Masks Are Neither Effective Nor Safe: A Summary Of The Science


Print this article and hand it to frightened mask wearers who have believed the alarmist media, politicians and Technocrats in white coats. Masks are proven ineffective against coronavirus and potentially harmful to healthy people and those with pre-existing conditions.




www.technocracy.news


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## GTX63 (Dec 13, 2016)

Hmmm, truth isn't hard to find is you look rather than hide and wait.
Bishop Fauci in March says there is no need to wear a mask. Then he doesn't.
The CDC in January stated that wearing a mask was not recommended to prevent the Wuflu virus.
In April, Nature magazine published an article that reported no evidence that wearing a mask did any good.
WHO's website also stated there was no direct evidence that wearing a mask decreased the spread of the virus.
A 2015 study by the BMJ (British/Baltic Medical Journal) found that the majority of asymptomatic patients who were not coughing or sneezing shed little to no viral droplets even after 30 minutes of lab testing.

Liberal stumbling idealogues do not process such information; rather they stop at it's doorstep like there is garlic hanging from the knocker. This information is for those who are continually confused by the propaganda belched out by the influencers and Renfields of such false ideology.


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## SLADE (Feb 20, 2004)

Bearfootfarm said:


> That's been refuted countless times.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I think that's a lie.


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## GTX63 (Dec 13, 2016)

Thinking is at least a start.


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

GTX63 said:


> Thinking is at least a start.


A start in the wrong direction


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## wdcutrsdaughter (Dec 9, 2012)

HDRider said:


> A start in the wrong direction



A start towards.... a conspiracy theory!

Since critical thinking seems to equal that these days.


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## GTX63 (Dec 13, 2016)

Sometimes an old engine that has been sitting will backfire and fart a little smoke before it warms up.
Work the choke and wait to see if it will smooth out before you call a wrecker.


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## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

SLADE said:


> I think that's a lie.


And cherry picked for an agenda. Masks work.

Refrigerated trucks were definitely used in NY.


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## mreynolds (Jan 1, 2015)

SLADE said:


> People without mask feeling entitled to infect others.


Have you been to Texas lately? I can't speak for other states but I can tell you here 98 to 99 percent are wearing them. Quit talking out of your ass when you don't know the facts. That is all speculation on your part. 

This is why we can't have a reasonable debate. You watch the news or internet and believe whatever you read.


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## Hiro (Feb 14, 2016)

Irish Pixie said:


> And cherry picked for an agenda. Masks work.
> 
> Refrigerated trucks were definitely used in NY.


If you are going to ship WuFlu patients into nursing homes and then horde the PPE for backdrops at press conferences, reefer trucks to store the bodies are virtually a given.


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## mreynolds (Jan 1, 2015)

Hiro said:


> If you are going to ship WuFlu patients into nursing homes and then horde the PPE for backdrops at press conferences, reefer trucks to store the bodies are virtually a given.


Houston has used them too. The morgues are not set up for this type of pandemic. Some articles are making out like NY and now Texas, Arizona and Florida are/were a scene from The Stand. 

It's just a necessary evil for big cities that may have need of them. Some will never use them.


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## SLADE (Feb 20, 2004)

mreynolds said:


> Have you been to Texas lately? I can't speak for other states but I can tell you here 98 to 99 percent are wearing them. Quit talking out of your ass when you don't know the facts. That is all speculation on your part.
> 
> This is why we can't have a reasonable debate. You watch the news or internet and believe whatever you read.


You should mention those facts to the anti mask members on here.
How do you feel about wearing a mask?

*Search Results*
*Web results*

*Texas Lt. Gov. Dan Patrick sounds a lot like Gov. Greg Abbott's ...*
www.texastribune.org › 2020/07/02 › dan-patrick-greg...

Jul 2, 2020 - While Gov. Greg Abbott has been responding to the twin crises on his plate, _Lt_. _Gov_. Dan Patrick's been stirring the pot — at the governor's ...


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## GTX63 (Dec 13, 2016)

I wore a mask yesterday and never even had an urge to loot.


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## GTX63 (Dec 13, 2016)

Hiro said:


> If you are going to ship WuFlu patients into nursing homes and then horde the PPE for backdrops at press conferences, reefer trucks to store the bodies are virtually a given.


Quit bashing New York City and just buy the poster!


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## Nevada (Sep 9, 2004)

mreynolds said:


> Quit talking out of your ass when you don't know the facts. That is all speculation on your part.
> 
> This is why we can't have a reasonable debate.


We can't have a reasonable debate because too many remarks are aimed at the member instead of the issue.


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## GTX63 (Dec 13, 2016)

With all due respect, the member has no issue.
Reasonable discussion occurs when people use reason.
Please proceed.


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## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

Nevada said:


> We can't have a reasonable debate because too many remarks are aimed at the member instead of the issue.


The last few posts on this thread are a case in point.


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## whiterock (Mar 26, 2003)

Dallas coroner has trucks outside now. I like the masks, makes some people look so much better.


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## robin416 (Dec 29, 2019)

GTX63 said:


> Hmmm, truth isn't hard to find is you look rather than hide and wait.
> Bishop Fauci in March says there is no need to wear a mask. Then he doesn't.
> The CDC in January stated that wearing a mask was not recommended to prevent the Wuflu virus.
> In April, Nature magazine published an article that reported no evidence that wearing a mask did any good.
> ...


The proof that masks helped protect others is simple, most of the population wearing masks the numbers went down. Return to normal life without masks and the numbers skyrocketed.


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## MichaelZ (May 21, 2013)

Number of cases are certainly way up, but death rate is not up. People are more able to handle this virus now, probably due to more vitamin D. If there is no vaccine, it will not be the case next January. So in that case, getting more lower risk exposed to this now seems to make sense, with the hope that a natural immunity will develop before winter.


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## Nevada (Sep 9, 2004)

MichaelZ said:


> Number of cases are certainly way up, but death rate is not up. People are more able to handle this virus now, probably due to more vitamin D.


The death numbers aren't tracking the number of new cases because it's takes a few weeks for people to die. Watch for a spike on deaths as we approach the end of the month.


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## mreynolds (Jan 1, 2015)

SLADE said:


> You should mention those facts to the anti mask members on here.
> How do you feel about wearing a mask?
> 
> *Search Results*
> ...


They fog my glasses up but other than that I don't mind.


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## mreynolds (Jan 1, 2015)

Nevada said:


> We can't have a reasonable debate because too many remarks are aimed at the member instead of the issue.


Exactly my point. The post I was responding to did just that and then doubled down on it with his very next post. 

Remember the 4 times you have called me a racist without even knowing me? I still debate you all the time. No worries. 

We are all in this together. Red, blue and purple. Let's try and act like we are not on the playground. In the meantime I will call them as I see them.


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## Nevada (Sep 9, 2004)

mreynolds said:


> Remember the 4 times you have called me a racist without even knowing me?


I don't recall calling any HT member a racist.


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## GTX63 (Dec 13, 2016)

robin416 said:


> The proof that masks helped protect others is simple, most of the population wearing masks the numbers went down. Return to normal life without masks and the numbers skyrocketed.


I quoted the CDC, WHO, The BMJ, and Mr. Fauci.
I've worn a mask. 
Not a pov, just quotes.


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## mreynolds (Jan 1, 2015)

Nevada said:


> I don't recall calling any HT member a racist.


Memory must be getting bad. That's ok, you haven't done it in at least two years. Not to me at least.


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## Nevada (Sep 9, 2004)

mreynolds said:


> Memory must be getting bad. That's ok, you haven't done it in at least two years. Not to me at least.


That's hard to believe. The rules around here were much more strict 2 years ago. I doubt anyone could have gotten away with it back then, even once.


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## GTX63 (Dec 13, 2016)

Positives are up.
Testing is up. Hmmmm.
False reporting is up (See Florida) .
Again.
Out of state travel is up (note the number of New York and Jersey license plates in your state).


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## po boy (Jul 12, 2010)

A factor in increased cases is we are testing between 750,000 and 825,000 per day.


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## Farmerga (May 6, 2010)

SLADE said:


> You should mention those facts to the anti mask members on here.
> How do you feel about wearing a mask?
> 
> *Search Results*
> ...


I don't think many are anti-mask, just anti-mask mandate. If one wants to wear a face diaper, it is their choice.


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)




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## robin416 (Dec 29, 2019)

GTX63 said:


> Positives are up.
> Testing is up. Hmmmm.
> False reporting is up (See Florida) .
> Again.
> Out of state travel is up (note the number of New York and Jersey license plates in your state).


I see too many GA and FL plates in my state.


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## rambler (Jan 20, 2004)

nchobbyfarm said:


> The pork industry is still not moving. Pork is going to be in short supply in the New Year even if a miracle cure is found tomorrow.
> 
> I have no knowledge of the poultry and beef markets.
> 
> The longer we don't make the sacrifices necessary to get this under control, the worse the pain will be for months or years to come. The damage from unintended consequences will be tremendous!


I thought the pork, and other meat plants were doing better now than a month ago? Not 100% but moving there?

your last paragraph is the crux of the matter.

we can’t agree on the same path to follow, we seem to be fed so many changing lines of goofiness to follow, no one trusts science or whatever pretends to be science these days.

it’s all contaminated with politics.

we aren’tgoing to get anywhere until we shut up and listen and find some answers. Not the knee jerk reaction of the week.

some folks want to hide for the next 20 years, some folk want to pretend there is practically zero problem at all.

the truth is somewhere in between.

we need to find a cure, which is:

let it run its course as other pandemics have, some people die.

find a vaccine, which may be very difficult for this type of virus and vaccines tend to have their own health effects if not properly long term tested. A vaccine may never come how lo

hide from the virus forever, treatments will get better as doctors stumble upon drugs that vanquish the virus effects more quickly, but the virus will still pick us off one by one as we live a very hidden and sheltered life.

those are the choices.

a danger is waffling and moving back and forth between these choices. We let the virus live and multiply and adapt to the various responses, and over time we may not find any of these ‘cures’ will work any more.

a bad thing.

I don’t know the answer, but I know I’m tired of the crap we get from politicians and social media experts.


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

SLADE said:


> I think that's a lie.


I think that's a lie.


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## homesteadforty (Dec 4, 2007)

mreynolds said:


> Have you been to Texas lately? *I can't speak for other states* but I can tell you here 98 to 99 percent are wearing them. Quit talking out of your ass when you don't know the facts. *That is all speculation on your part.*
> 
> This is why we can't have a reasonable debate. You watch the news or internet and believe whatever you read.


"*I can't speak for other states" *and "*That is all speculation on your part."* Ummm... isn't that exactly what you are doing? Which body part are you speaking from?

You presumably (and it's a BIG presumption) can speak to the area you live in but a quick check shows many counties and municipalities in Texas do not have mandatory mask requirements... I hardly believe that 98 to 99 percent are wearing them in those areas. Not to mention you have no clue as to how many are wearing them in other states/areas.

Here in West Virginia, even with a mask requirement, I'd estimate there's maybe 50% percent compliance. We've had a number of bars and churches where there was In another state where my daughter lives, she estimates a 66% compliance. Another daughter lives in yet another state in a large metropolitan area where she says there is a 75% compliance.

There'd likely be a more "reasonable debate" to be had if one didn't profess that others were talking out of there a**.


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

Irish Pixie said:


> And cherry picked for an agenda. *Masks work*.


Should we take your word for it, or listen to actual scientists who conducted studies?
The research I've seen says you are incorrect.


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

Irish Pixie said:


> The last few posts on this thread are a case in point.


SSDD


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

robin416 said:


> The proof that masks helped protect others is simple, most of the population wearing masks the numbers went down. Return to normal life without masks and the numbers skyrocketed.


Repeating it won't change the study results.

The number of infections hasn't gone up or down so much as the number of tests have risen exponentially.


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## robin416 (Dec 29, 2019)

The fact our ICU beds are now full in both hospitals makes your argument false. Before the area returned to normal, ie few masks, our hospitals were not put under the kind of pressure they're now facing.


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## GunMonkeyIntl (May 13, 2013)

Nevada said:


> The death numbers aren't tracking the number of new cases because it's takes a few weeks for people to die. Watch for a spike on deaths as we approach the end of the month.


Quoted for Science!


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## mreynolds (Jan 1, 2015)

homesteadforty said:


> "*I can't speak for other states" *and "*That is all speculation on your part."* Ummm... isn't that exactly what you are doing? Which body part are you speaking from?
> 
> You presumably (and it's a BIG presumption) can speak to the area you live in but a quick check shows many counties and municipalities in Texas do not have mandatory mask requirements... I hardly believe that 98 to 99 percent are wearing them in those areas. Not to mention you have no clue as to how many are wearing them in other states/areas.
> 
> ...


It's true I cant keep up with every single Texan but I do know what I see in the 4 counties I frequent. Heck we were over 50% even when Fauci said we didn't need one. It is not that big of a deal to wear. I don't know why WV isn't toeing the line. I do know that I would know better what is happening in Texas than someone from several states away though.


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## barnbilder (Jul 1, 2005)

People listening to doctors when doctors kill more people than this silly virus. Masks work. When fitted properly, to keep out particles larger than the weave. They also work to give people that wear them for too long legionnaires disease. If you get really sick from legionnaires disease, you could end up using an ICU bed. There is a very good chance you will die if your doctor presumes you covid positive, or you pop a false positive on a sketchy test. There is also a very good chance it will be counted as a covid death. If you wear a mask, do us a favor and throw it away after a few hours. Don't need those icu beds filled up with people that contaminated their mask with legionella bacterium and cultured them on the respiration dampened fabric and repeatedly breathed them in.

There are probably a lot of deaths right now in old people, scared to death by the news, that have been afraid to risk letting their HVAC guy come in the house, and do a scheduled filter change. If you don't do scheduled filter changes, you are setting yourself up for a respiratory disease with a real, documented 10% mortality rate. If you wear a the same mask you've had laying around in your petri dish of a house, putter around the garden for a bit, and head to town to get groceries, you are really tempting fate. Wouldn't have mattered a year ago, doctors would have considered legionnaires and put you on antibiotics, but right now, presumptive covid goes on the chart, schedule a test, have the reefer truck stand by.

Another good way to die from legionnaires disease is to shut down a large building for a while and then go back and use the water, trusting that the chlorine was concentrated enough, didn't react with pipe gunk or off gas itself. A church or similar structure, hooked to well water, with long plumbing runs through unconditioned spaces, setting vacant for a few weeks in warm weather, and then ingested could be ugly right now, surefire recipe for a covid toe tag. Don't even think about catching covid and legionnaires at the same time.


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## robin416 (Dec 29, 2019)

barnbilder said:


> People listening to doctors when doctors kill more people than this silly virus. Masks work. When fitted properly, to keep out particles larger than the weave. They also work to give people that wear them for too long legionnaires disease. If you get really sick from legionnaires disease, you could end up using an ICU bed. There is a very good chance you will die if your doctor presumes you covid positive, or you pop a false positive on a sketchy test. There is also a very good chance it will be counted as a covid death. If you wear a mask, do us a favor and throw it away after a few hours. Don't need those icu beds filled up with people that contaminated their mask with legionella bacterium and cultured them on the respiration dampened fabric and repeatedly breathed them in.
> 
> There are probably a lot of deaths right now in old people, scared to death by the news, that have been afraid to risk letting their HVAC guy come in the house, and do a scheduled filter change. If you don't do scheduled filter changes, you are setting yourself up for a respiratory disease with a real, documented 10% mortality rate. If you wear a the same mask you've had laying around in your petri dish of a house, putter around the garden for a bit, and head to town to get groceries, you are really tempting fate. Wouldn't have mattered a year ago, doctors would have considered legionnaires and put you on antibiotics, but right now, presumptive covid goes on the chart, schedule a test, have the reefer truck stand by.
> 
> Another good way to die from legionnaires disease is to shut down a large building for a while and then go back and use the water, trusting that the chlorine was concentrated enough, didn't react with pipe gunk or off gas itself. A church or similar structure, hooked to well water, with long plumbing runs through unconditioned spaces, setting vacant for a few weeks in warm weather, and then ingested could be ugly right now, surefire recipe for a covid toe tag. Don't even think about catching covid and legionnaires at the same time.


Where did the information come from?


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## barnbilder (Jul 1, 2005)

robin416 said:


> Where did the information come from?


Knowledge. Something I am sure is foreign to most people who support the virus party.


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## GTX63 (Dec 13, 2016)

CDC, WHO, BMJ and a host of other organizational links have already been posted and have apparently gone unread by those who don't want to accept facts.


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## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

robin416 said:


> Where did the information come from?


Perhaps out of a body part?


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## robin416 (Dec 29, 2019)

GTX63 said:


> CDC, WHO, BMJ and a host of other organizational links have already been posted and have apparently gone unread by those who don't want to accept facts.


Maybe you should post a link since I've found nothing suggesting that masks can be a source for legionnaires.


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## Farmerga (May 6, 2010)

barnbilder said:


> People listening to doctors when doctors kill more people than this silly virus.


According to a John's Hopkins university study, in an average year, 250-400k people die as a result of preventable medical mistakes, except for this year. Corona...Corona killed them all!!!


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## Nevada (Sep 9, 2004)

barnbilder said:


> People listening to doctors when doctors kill more people than this silly virus.


If we don't listen to doctors for medical advice then who do you suggest?


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## Farmerga (May 6, 2010)

Nevada said:


> If we don't listen to doctors for medical advice then who do you suggest?


We listen to doctors who are not politicians who have been in the swamp for several decades. And never listen to just one exclusively.


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## Nevada (Sep 9, 2004)

Farmerga said:


> We listen to doctors who are not politicians who have been in the swamp for several decades. And never listen to just one exclusively.


My doctor isn't a politician and she's taking the pandemic seriously.


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

*ORLANDO, Fla.* - A person who died in a motorcycle accident was added to Florida’s COVID-19 death count, according to a state health official. 

But you could actually argue that it could have been the COVID-19 that caused him to crash. 









FOX 35 INVESTIGATES: Questions raised after fatal motorcycle crash listed as COVID-19 death


A person who died in a motorcycle accident was added to Florida’s COVID-19 death count, according to a state health official.




www.fox35orlando.com


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## rambler (Jan 20, 2004)

Irish Pixie said:


> Perhaps out of a body part?


whatwas said should be well known basic info?

your style of news even reports it, so it has to be true even for your side.









The third-leading cause of death in US most doctors don't want you to know about


More than 250,000 people in the US die every year because of medical mistakes, making it the third-leading cause of death after heart disease and cancer.




www.cnbc.com


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## barnbilder (Jul 1, 2005)

Nevada said:


> If we don't listen to doctors for medical advice then who do you suggest?


Always trust your gut, and your life experiences, and your common sense, provided you have any of those things. Doesn't matter if you are talking to a doctor or an auto mechanic. If something doesn't sound right, get a second opinion. Could save your life.









Family fears loved one’s Legionnaires’ was overlooked amid coronavirus pandemic


LAKE COUNTY, Ill. — There has been such a focus on COVID testing that a Lake County family fears doctors could be missing other potential problems. Tyler Mattson thought doctors would be able to fi…




wgntv.com













As women at Coleman federal prison in Florida fight Legionnaires', men report feeling sick


One inmate, 33, died at the federal prison despite being a healthy man, according to his friends




www.tampabay.com













Buildings closed by coronavirus face another risk: Legionnaires’ disease


Commercial buildings shuttered for weeks to stem the spread of the coronavirus could fuel another grisly lung infection: Legionnaires’ disease. Public health experts are urging landlords across the globe to carefully re-open buildings to prevent outbreaks of the severe, sometimes lethal, form...




news.yahoo.com





Legionella bacteria like moist to wet conditions around 95 degrees. With the shutdowns, the risk has been made higher. A mask is the best prevention, as long as it is N-95. Cloth face coverings would need to be changed often, and disposed of, cleaned with bleach, or heated above 140, to prevent them from being a personal petri dish worn directly over the nose and mouth.


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## Redlands Okie (Nov 28, 2017)

robin416 said:


> The fact our ICU beds are now full in both hospitals makes your argument false. Before the area returned to normal, ie few masks, our hospitals were not put under the kind of pressure they're now facing.


As of a couple days ago CDC shows less than 15% of ICU beds have covid patients in Alabama. Map toward bottom of link is there to look at for what ever state you or others happen to be in. 






__





COVID-19 Data Dashboard - Hospital Capacity Snapshot | NHSN | CDC







www.cdc.gov


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

Good link @Redlands Okie


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## robin416 (Dec 29, 2019)

That dashboard is estimates and four days old. I can't find the article I read the other day but this one shows that they are very concerned about where they stand now: Hospital Diversion


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## robin416 (Dec 29, 2019)

barnbilder said:


> Always trust your gut, and your life experiences, and your common sense, provided you have any of those things. Doesn't matter if you are talking to a doctor or an auto mechanic. If something doesn't sound right, get a second opinion. Could save your life.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


The only mention of legionnaires and masks that I could find was in relation to CPAP masks and its related equipment.


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## barnbilder (Jul 1, 2005)

robin416 said:


> The only mention of legionnaires and masks that I could find was in relation to CPAP masks and its related equipment.


I bow to your intellectual omnipotence. You caught me. Legionella bacterium thrives in a damp environment around body temperature. But even though cloth masks that have been breathed into for any length of time meet those criterion excellently, it is also a documented fact that they watch CNN, and because there is no evidence that they can live on a cloth mask posted in an easy to find CNN article, they don't even try.


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

robin416 said:


> That dashboard is estimates and four days old. I can't find the article I read the other day but this one shows that they are very concerned about where they stand now: Hospital Diversion


That article is hype. The headline is nothing but scare mongering.


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## JeffreyD (Dec 27, 2006)

Irish Pixie said:


> The last few posts on this thread are a case in point.


You are one of those posters, are you not?


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## JeffreyD (Dec 27, 2006)

Nevada said:


> I don't recall calling any HT member a racist.


Don Lemon said you were a racist and you want us to believe everything cnn says and you didnt refute that claim so.....you must be a racist!


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## robin416 (Dec 29, 2019)

barnbilder said:


> I bow to your intellectual omnipotence. You caught me. Legionella bacterium thrives in a damp environment around body temperature. But even though cloth masks that have been breathed into for any length of time meet those criterion excellently, it is also a documented fact that they watch CNN, and because there is no evidence that they can live on a cloth mask posted in an easy to find CNN article, they don't even try.


What does CNN have to do with your mask comment? Is it a diversion on the fact you have not posted a link to the information about the masks and legionnaires?


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## robin416 (Dec 29, 2019)

HDRider said:


> That article is hype. The headline is nothing but scare mongering.


OK, if you say so.


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## JeffreyD (Dec 27, 2006)

Irish Pixie said:


> Perhaps out of a body part?


You should know better than anyone!


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

robin416 said:


> OK, if you say so.


What data did it have, other than some measure of infections? 

You spout off, but you fall apart when confronted with facts and data.


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## robin416 (Dec 29, 2019)

HDRider said:


> What data did it have, other than some measure of infections?
> 
> You spout off, but you fall apart when confronted with facts and data.


Why? Because I can't find the article I read a few days ago that both hospitals listed the number of ICU beds and explained where they stood and that they've had to open other areas as ICU's? I could toss out numbers, any old numbers, since I can't remember the specific numbers I figure seeing what they're planning was sufficient. 

Evidently not for some.


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## audacity (Feb 14, 2020)

Nevada said:


> We can't have a reasonable debate because too many remarks are aimed at the member instead of the issue.


That's because there's very few ways to argue against outright propaganda and lies. If people are thoroughly convinced that bull like "MaSkS aRe A cOnSpIrAcY!!!" or that it's some evil liberal ploy to test Americans' compliance (thanks so much for spreading that around, Facebook), then they aren't going to accept facts and figures that show that precautions like mask wearing DO help. They have already made up their mind and anything you say will simply be dismissed.

It's an exercise in futility.

Even when people try to stay on subject, they just go around and around until one gets more tired of the other.

These threads share nothing of substantial value beyond providing an avenue through which members can antagonize each other.


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## SLADE (Feb 20, 2004)

I believe the doctors.



AP Top News
*Doctor who survived COVID-19 bewildered by public disregard*
By JAY REEVEStoday


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## Redlands Okie (Nov 28, 2017)

audacity said:


> That's because there's very few ways to argue against outright propaganda and lies. If people are thoroughly convinced that bull like "MaSkS aRe A cOnSpIrAcY!!!" or that it's some evil liberal ploy to test Americans' compliance (thanks so much for spreading that around, Facebook), then they aren't going to accept facts and figures that show that precautions like mask wearing DO help. They have already made up their mind and anything you say will simply be dismissed.
> 
> It's an exercise in futility.
> 
> ...


Links on sites showing actual data about cloth mask wearing helping ? Even the CDC sites are full of the words MIGHT, MAYBE, SHOULD. If cloth mask makes people feel better then fine. 

Now N-95 and respirators are documented to help but that is not what is being recommended by most. Personally if I am in areas with high numbers of people thats what I wear. Why waste the effort with a cloth mask.


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## audacity (Feb 14, 2020)

Redlands Okie said:


> Links on sites showing actual data about cloth mask wearing helping ? Even the CDC sites are full of the words MIGHT, MAYBE, SHOULD.


That's because there is a HUGE amount of variation on cloth masks and the CDC cannot make solid claims. You have people making their own masks from scratch, and multiple manufacturers making masks in very different ways. The amount a _given mask _can help you is a variation from the average, but it is probably still better than 0%.

For example: 
"Bandit style" bandanas. I'm seeing a lot of these, but they are probably the least effective form of mask because they are completely open around the sides and bottom.

A loose single-layer cotton mask will be less effective than a sealing mask with a filter sewn into it. 

And no mask, not even respirators, are effective if you don't wear them properly. The number of people I see pulling their mask down to expose their nose is... nonsensical. If you are breathing through your nose, then you're bypassing the mask entirely and you might as well not even be wearing it.

You're throwing the baby out with the bathwater if you are choosing to not wear a mask -- or even worse, protesting against it -- on the basis that the CDC uses words like 'SHOULD'. You can still get COVID while wearing a mask, but the _odds _of it are significantly reduced by a factor dependent on exactly what it is you are wearing.


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

audacity said:


> These threads share *nothing of substantial value* beyond providing an avenue through which members can antagonize each other.


Be the change you want to see instead of just complaining about what others do.


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

SLADE said:


> I believe the doctors.


Here's one now:
Dr Anthony Fauci:
"The primary people who need masks are the health care providers who are putting themselves in harm's way when they're taking care of someone with a highly contagious disease. The other is the people who are infected. And you want to have them in the hospital and not spreading it there. *The one thing you don't want to do is, by recommending that people in the community generally wear masks*, is if it takes it away from the people who really need it. "


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## coolrunnin (Aug 28, 2010)

Bearfootfarm said:


> Be the change you want to see instead of just complaining about what others do.


SSDD Patterns certainly never change.... LOL


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## coolrunnin (Aug 28, 2010)

Bearfootfarm said:


> Be the change you want to see instead of just complaining
> Doubled


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## Redlands Okie (Nov 28, 2017)

audacity said:


> That's because there is a HUGE amount of variation on cloth masks and the CDC cannot make solid claims. You have people making their own masks from scratch, and multiple manufacturers making masks in very different ways. The amount a _given mask _can help you is a variation from the average, but it is probably still better than 0%.
> 
> For example:
> "Bandit style" bandanas. I'm seeing a lot of these, but they are probably the least effective form of mask because they are completely open around the sides and bottom.
> ...


As I stated, in crowded areas I do wear a mask. No bath water used, no babies thrown out 

The only mask I have seen listed to “SIGNIFICANTLY” reduce chances of the wuhan virus are properly worn N-95 mask and respirators. Would be glad to see some links or info for other types or methods that are actually tested. Can some medical type mask help, sure. Just do not expect it to help a lot. The rest of the comments about poor use of materials and poor fitting sound pretty spot on. 

We are seeing a whole lot of “feel good” actions going on around here and from what I see on the news it much the same in other places. Main point is people need to be as accurate as they can, at least make a effort to provide good information.


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## rambler (Jan 20, 2004)

audacity said:


> That's because there is a HUGE amount of variation on cloth masks and the CDC cannot make solid claims. You have people making their own masks from scratch, and multiple manufacturers making masks in very different ways. The amount a _given mask _can help you is a variation from the average, but it is probably still better than 0%.
> 
> For example:
> "Bandit style" bandanas. I'm seeing a lot of these, but they are probably the least effective form of mask because they are completely open around the sides and bottom.
> ...


so in a perfect world masks may, should help.

but we live in an imperfect world, where people wear masks wrong, and people reused disposable masks for a week, and people live and work in hot and humid conditions, not a controlled lab where experiments are conducted when everything is ‘right.’

your reply, if one analyses it, sort of supports those who are questioning mask wearing. Or protesting against a ‘one size fits all’ type of blanket requirement to wear a mask in all situations across an entire state.

And that is the biggest protest against masks. One I can understand.

Medical professionals have wavered back and forth on the use of masks.

the filtering ability of the masks allow the virus particles to pass through, at best they slow down clumps of virus is all.

the average common person wears masks all wrong,

all together, even with your comments exactly, there seems to be a lot of questions on how useful a blanket rule for everyone to wear a mask all the time is very questionable in the real world?

I understand there are extremists on either side.

I question the extreme view of Any mask worn any way in any conditions making life better for all of us. Your comments actually seem to back my view up?

something to think on, anyhow.

I wear a mask in Menards for the hour or less I shop there, as they require them. I can deal with it. My wife has to wear one most of theday at work, it’s required. It’s not comfortable and the mask they give her each day for an 8-10 hour shift clearly states to be used 4 hours..... so we try to play along, but we do have questions, as any thinking human being should.

what happens long term when you wear a 4 hour mask for 8 hours a day? For example.....


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## barnbilder (Jul 1, 2005)

rambler said:


> what happens long term when you wear a 4 hour mask for 8 hours a day? For example.....


You die from Legionnaires disease, it gets counted as a covid death, and the fear and hysteria gives power to people who desperately seek it and who can't attain it through the merit of their accomplishments.


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## GTX63 (Dec 13, 2016)

Of course everyone here knows to wash and disinfect their cloth masks after every use. 

And your clothes, gloves, car handles, steering wheel, shifter, radio, cell phone, arm rests, keys, wallet, credit cards, groceries,sun glasses, and take a shower.


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## GTX63 (Dec 13, 2016)

Did I mention after each use of your mask? 
Yep, looks like I did. 
Ok then.


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## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

I have a stack of six brand new cloth masks sitting on my desk right now. There are at least another two washed (machine on hot, delicate cycle) in each vehicle. We have surgical masks as well. It's not hard to have clean masks on hand. 

There is a bottle of hand sanitizer in each vehicle too. Again, not hard to do.


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## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

Same here surgical masks in baggies in the car as well as cloth masks that get washed. Some of the local businesses that supply contractors are giving on small pen shaped spray containers of hand sanitizer. They come in real handy. We are on a homesteading website. I thought the idea of being prepared is what we do. My car is prepared for breakdowns and now for covid.


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

Graphic: Coronavirus deaths in the U.S., per day


More than 900,000 people have died in the U.S. of Covid-19. Track which states are getting hit the hardest and which direction the country's death rate is going. Updated daily.




www.nbcnews.com


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)




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## SLADE (Feb 20, 2004)

Does the US still have highest total number of deaths?
I think it does.
Scary


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

SLADE said:


> Does the US still have highest total number of deaths?
> I think it does.
> Scary


No one really knows.

Many pretend they do, and parrot the misinformation.

That's even more "scary".


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## TripleD (Feb 12, 2011)

rambler said:


> so in a perfect world masks may, should help.
> 
> but we live in an imperfect world, where people wear masks wrong, and people reused disposable masks for a week, and people live and work in hot and humid conditions, not a controlled lab where experiments are conducted when everything is ‘right.’
> 
> ...


I have a neice who who's an RN. She works in a rural clinic. They have to change masks every 30 minutes. She said it's worthless. The mask are not even surgical grade!


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## po boy (Jul 12, 2010)

SLADE said:


> Does the US still have highest total number of deaths?
> I think it does.
> Scary


NY and NJ Have a death rate 4 times the US death rate.
CT and Ma. are 3 times.
Those four states have half of the deaths in the US,


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## SLADE (Feb 20, 2004)

Bearfootfarm said:


> No one really knows.
> 
> Many pretend they do, and parrot the misinformation.
> 
> That's even more "scary".


Many pretend we don't know and try to hide the truth of how bad the US is doing.
Now that's really scary.


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## SLADE (Feb 20, 2004)

po boy said:


> NY and NJ Have a death rate 4 times the US death rate.
> CT and Ma. are 3 times.
> Those four states have half of the deaths in the US,


We have learned a lot as we go along and it has saved lives.


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## po boy (Jul 12, 2010)

SLADE said:


> We have learned a lot a we go along and it has saved lives.


Some were slow learners.


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## rambler (Jan 20, 2004)

SLADE said:


> Many pretend we don't know and try to hide the truth of how bad the US is doing.
> Now that's really scary.


it is unfortunate how poor the USA educational system has become. Parents want free day care,education doesn’t matter.

your lack of math and reasoning skills shows.

you are here for the political agenda, so won’t be able to get through to you anyhow.

it’s pretty simple, death rates are going down, the USA is doing well in this.

as we test more, we will find more infections. That is not surprising.

some countries arent testing at all, and or are using even less reliable test kits than we have available. There is no correlation to our results.

other countries use govt force to control their population, they may have lower infection rates at a terrible human cost. Same countries also have state run media propaganda that report the numbers they want you to hear, not real numbers.

the only valuable statistic we have is USA death rate, and even tho it appears to be highly inflated, it is dropping.

We are doing good in the USA. We are following the best path so far a free society can.

the rest of the world is a bigger statistical mystery than the USA is, we really don’t know.

this is basic math, it’s a shame our schools have stopped teaching it and are just touchy feely baby sitters.


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## SLADE (Feb 20, 2004)

po boy said:


> Some were slow learners.


Their suffering gave us time to learn.


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## SLADE (Feb 20, 2004)

rambler said:


> it is unfortunate how poor the USA educational system has become. Parents want free day care,education doesn’t matter.
> 
> your lack of math and reasoning skills shows.
> 
> ...


We need to tend to our own sick and dying and not fixate on how another country is doing.
I hope they do better. We can do much better.


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## TripleD (Feb 12, 2011)

SLADE said:


> Their suffering gave us time to learn.


I guess you are living in a closed herd environment? Just like my cows. Not a single one has been bought from a sale barn. The calves get sold and the trailer gets sanitized before coming home...


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## po boy (Jul 12, 2010)

SLADE said:


> Their suffering gave us time to learn.


You spelled sacrifices wrong!


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

SLADE said:


> Does the US still have highest total number of deaths?
> I think it does.
> Scary


We should be more like Vietnam and Cambodia who had zero Covid deaths. We should recognize the superiority of their social and medical models.


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## JeffreyD (Dec 27, 2006)

SLADE said:


> Does the US still have highest total number of deaths?
> I think it does.
> Scary


No.
Were 7th according to John Hopkins.


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

SLADE said:


> Does the US still have highest total number of deaths?
> I think it does.
> Scary


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## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

Did you know wearing a mask is now patriotic?

Anything that makes more people wear masks is good by me.


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## homesteadforty (Dec 4, 2007)

painterswife said:


> Did you know wearing a mask is now patriotic?


Expound please???


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

homesteadforty said:


> Expound please???


Someone who should remain nameless said so


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## SLADE (Feb 20, 2004)

HDRider said:


> View attachment 89670


You seem to show that many 3rd world are doing better than we are.


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

SLADE said:


> You seem to show that many 3rd world are doing better than we are.


Amazing isn't it? With the billions and billions of dollars spent on health care, the "best" doctors in the world and we are beat down worse than third world countries. It is unbelievable.

America, a modern miracle, brought to her knees by a flu from China. It is a dark time in America's history.


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## SLADE (Feb 20, 2004)

HDRider said:


> Amazing isn't. With the billions and billions of dollars spent on health care, the "best" doctors in the world and we are beat down worse than third world countries. It is unbelievable.
> 
> America, a modern miracle, brought to her knees by a flu from China. It is a dark time in America's history.


I feel it's a bit more complex than you are letting on.


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## TripleD (Feb 12, 2011)

SLADE said:


> You seem to show that many 3rd world are doing better than we are.


Welcome to the new world! Believe who you choose. There not accurate numbers being released by any country. These things have to work their way thru . It's not a extinction level event!


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

SLADE said:


> I feel it's a bit more complex than you are letting on.


No. It is so simple. You have said it only takes a mask while out, and staying home.

If but for the one soul, all is lost.


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## SLADE (Feb 20, 2004)

HDRider said:


> No. It is so simple. You have said it only takes a mask while out, and staying home.
> 
> If but for the one soul, all is lost.


I noticed you slipped China into the conversation when we need to focus on exposure to each other.
Not China.


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## Hiro (Feb 14, 2016)

TripleD said:


> Welcome to the new world! Believe who you choose. There not accurate numbers being released by any country. These things have to work their way thru . It's not a extinction level event!


Brave New World


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

SLADE said:


> I noticed you slipped China into the conversation when we need to focus on exposure to each other.
> Not China.


You are too easily triggered by facts. 

You should help us understand why poor countries with substandard healthcare systems can excel while we die in droves in an uncontrollable epidemic.


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## SLADE (Feb 20, 2004)

HDRider said:


> You are too easily triggered by facts.
> 
> You should help us understand why poor countries with substandard healthcare systems can excel while we die in droves in an uncontrollable epidemic.


It's quite simple.
In the US some of us need to be dying before we see a problem.
I won't answer for other country's.
Maybe we need to ask for help.


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

SLADE said:


> It's quite simple.
> In the US some of us need to be dying before we see a problem.
> I won't answer for other country's.
> Maybe we need to ask for help.


See I told you it was simple. Maybe Mexico will help us, or Nicaragua.


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## SLADE (Feb 20, 2004)

HDRider said:


> See I told you it was simple. Maybe Mexico will help us, or Nicaragua.


I like that we agree.


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

SLADE said:


> I like that we agree.


I feel all aglow


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## Darren (May 10, 2002)

barnbilder said:


> I always figured the reefer trucks were just for optics.


The trailers I've seen pictured are not reefers.


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

Nevada said:


> Watch for a spike on deaths as we approach the end of the month.


It's been a month.
Show us the "spike".


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## random (Jul 23, 2020)

Hmm, old thread revived. Still relevant conversation:


SLADE said:


> I think that's a lie.





Irish Pixie said:


> And cherry picked for an agenda. Masks work.





audacity said:


> That's because there's very few ways to argue against outright propaganda and lies. If people are thoroughly convinced that bull like "MaSkS aRe A cOnSpIrAcY!!!" or that it's some evil liberal ploy to test Americans' compliance (thanks so much for spreading that around, Facebook), _then they aren't going to accept facts and figures that show that precautions like mask wearing DO help_. They have already made up their mind and anything you say will simply be dismissed.


Where are those facts and figures? I have asked around here several times and have not received any reasoned response. Someone provided a Duke study, but it wasn't a study of real-world efficacy of universal masking. On the other hand, I have posted links to actual journal articles stating that masks are NOT effective, but nobody has even bothered to respond to that.

Is the Emerging Infectious Disease Journal lying?








Nonpharmaceutical Measures for Pandemic Influenza in Nonhealthcare Settings—Personal Protective and Environmental Measures


Pandemic Influenza—Personal Protective Measures




wwwnc.cdc.gov






> In our systematic review, we identified 10 RCTs that reported estimates of the effectiveness of face masks in reducing laboratory-confirmed influenza virus infections in the community from literature published during 1946–July 27, 2018. In pooled analysis, we found _no significant reduction in influenza transmission with the use of face masks_





Nevada said:


> We can't have a reasonable debate because too many remarks are aimed at the member instead of the issue.


We also can't have a reasonable debate when people cling to their position without engaging with actual documented facts.


----------

