# is this a problem?



## silosounds (Nov 13, 2004)

When I opened my hive a week after putting in the new package the bees where building their nest from the inner cover hole attached to the inner cover all the way down to the floor and they attached to the floor needless to say as I removed the inner cover it ripped the hive in half so I removed all of it. there where no eggs to be seen. Im feeding them sugar water from a entrance feeder and they suck up about a quart a day. Now it two weeks later and so I peeked in and they have built five of the frames together and they extend to the floor should I let them do this? they aren't even using the foundations their making their own between the frame. and they are very aggressive . but there is capped comb and eggs in 2/3 of what they've built. Population seems ok and I don't think robbing is going on. I red that robbing bees are aggressive, is this true. 
i tried top feeders but they wouldn't use them ,the syrup just sat there so I started using a entrance feeder. I've used 30 gallons of syrup so far, is that a lot? how much is normal. I have 3 hives.


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## Iddee (Sep 25, 2005)

Do you have ten frames of foundation in each hive, and are the frames pushed up tight against each other? If not, do so immediately.


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## silosounds (Nov 13, 2004)

At the start I had nine for the first week but now I have 10 frames in place for 2 weeks and they have dura gilt foundation in them they are spaced according to the space bars on the top should they be closer by removing this space bar? because I just opened my other hives and their starting the same thing not as bad though.


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## coffee (Mar 17, 2009)

try taking one of the frames out and rub it with your nails .... if there is no wax on the foundation the girls will not build on it ... they will not build on plastic foundation if there's no wax on it ... On my foundation they would build but only were its covered with wax . So I brush bees wax on were there's no wax , before I put it in the hive then they build on it


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## silosounds (Nov 13, 2004)

yes there is wax on the foundation they are new this year, should I remove what they have built so I can push them closer together? Is there different widths of frame for different boxes. the way it is I cant push them closer because it will smash the capped comb. could I seperate them and move them to the outside so the problem is facing the box where theres more room?


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## alleyyooper (Apr 22, 2005)

A friend told me some time back that the bees sold today are stupid compaired to 20 years ago.

Since Dura Guild is waxed and feels like plain wax foundation they should be drawing it out just fine 9 or 10 frames in the box.

Going back to what my friend said It sounds as if you got all the class idots.

Try spraying the foundation with a syrup (2:1) and placeing it back in the hive.

Some pictures of the mess would help us figure out what is going on maybe.

 Al


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## tom j (Apr 3, 2009)

new means nothing , I had new foundation last year that they would not touch .. when I got a good look at it ,, no wax ... 
two years ago I had the class idiots ,,,, It was my fault ( I tried going foundation less ) but they built the honey comb from the left front corner to the back right corner , seeing as it was the honey comb ,, I just laughed and let it go .. was kind of a mess robbing ,, but it tasted good .. 
you might try taking out the your foundation ,, and put what they built in the frames with rubber bands .. like you would a cut out ,... this way your not starting all over ,,, as it will set the hive back to the very first day if you take it all out and crush it .. and remember the young bees make the wax ,, if you make them start over ,,, they will be all older bees ,then what you started with ..
just a thought running around in this head of mine ...


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## Michael Bush (Oct 26, 2008)

http://www.bushfarms.com/beesfaqs.htm#messedupcomb


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## ace admirer (Oct 5, 2005)

i think there should be ten frames of undrawn foundation.. the super is reduced only after combs are drawn out and then only for easy honey extraction....nine frames are not used in the brood chamber, its ten. its all about "bee space" about 5/16 of an inch.


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## alleyyooper (Apr 22, 2005)

I know a lot of bee keepers who use 9 frames in the brood chamber.
Their reasoning is valid for the point they are attempting to acheve.

 Al


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## Iddee (Sep 25, 2005)

I've known a lot of beeks that used 9 also. The reasoning, tho, I have never heard one that held water. If you have, please share it.


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## ace admirer (Oct 5, 2005)

i would also like to know of what use 9 frames in the brood chamber is going to accomplish? is it going to grow extra long workers? more drones? superceed queens are worker eggs that are floated out of the normal depth cell,,,,so thats not it. queeens to replace the old queen that leaves with the swarm are cells built at the bottom of the frames. i just don't see what use it would be....and we all know if you violate the bee space you're going to have a mess on your hands...that was figured out over 200 years ago. 

someone educate me to the nine frames in the BROOD chamber? i understand nine frames in the supers,,,,i do that myself.


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## T-Bone 369 (Jan 18, 2007)

Longer bees - I love it.

Somewhere in the back of my mind I remember reading or hearing someone talk about nine allowing bees to cluster in larger numbers during the winter around small paches of brood. I do not see the need or real advantage to this but I guess it's a personal thing.


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## ace admirer (Oct 5, 2005)

ok perhaps i could go for that,,,


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## alleyyooper (Apr 22, 2005)

The package should draw out the foundation even if it is 9 frames that is the point. Makes one wonder if some thing contaminated the foundation so the girls won't draw it out. 
Also it is two colonies being talked about, not just the one. Bet the foundation came from the same place too.

*To debate the 9 or 10 frame issue shouldn't a new thread be started for that? *While silosounds problem is figured out here?

I would still like to see pictures.

 Al


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## ace admirer (Oct 5, 2005)

i have never heard of install 9 undrawn foundation frames .. i have always read to install 10, as they draw the foundation out, but before they cap to remove one and use the spreader tool to space out the nine left... 

i would think that if nine undrawn frames were installed in a brood chamber the bees would follow their own "plan" not those of us humans.......is not that what happen and is the reason for the start of this thread.....i contend that is exactly what happened..nine frames were install,,,the bees put in their own comb in between the too wide space between the nine frames, thus the comb down the center of the brood chamber from the top cover hole down to the bottom board. if the bee space is violated,,,,the bees will use the space as they see fit. 

nine frames are used so that the bees will FURTHER draw out the cell past the width of the frames,,,making it easier to decap for extraction. usually drawn frames from the year before are used in nine spacing. again i know of no use of nine frames except for ease of decap.


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## beerancher (Dec 30, 2008)

I started out with dura chit foundation when I was a newbee. the bees would draw off the top bar and leave a space between the foundation and comb even with the frames pushed together. they wont rebuild on the plastic if the wax is removed. I finally decided the bees didnt like the stuff. Went to straight wired wax foundation and problem was solved.


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## ace admirer (Oct 5, 2005)

i loved the idea of the plastic foundation,,,,,,the bees hate it. ALL the conditions have to be right for my bees to draW the stuff out... i too have had bees draw out standoffs and then build their comb hanging from these standoffs like Beerancher.


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