# Beet pulp : Which beets



## Wintergrower_OH (Sep 21, 2010)

Thinking about growing beets . Are any type of beets ok ? sweeter the better ? Looking at growing heirloom beets .


----------



## offthegrid (Aug 11, 2009)

Beet pulp is made from sugar beets, not regular eating beets. It's the by-product after the sugar has been extracted.

I would think it would be hard to make at home unless you are deliberately growing sugar beets in order to extract the sugar. I'm not sure how that is done, but it leaves behind the beet pulp (low sugar, high fiber remnants).


----------



## Molly Mckee (Jul 8, 2006)

Moldy feed and horses do not go together. I would not try to make beet pulp at home without a lot of knowledge and equipment. One mistake could be deadly.


----------



## Wintergrower_OH (Sep 21, 2010)

Thanks for the heads up . Trying to find alternative to store bought supplements .


----------



## TroutRiver (Nov 26, 2010)

You could feed fresh shredded beets, but you would want to feed a much smaller amount than what you would of store bought beet pulp, which has nearly all of the sugars and minerals extracted. Whole shredded beets would be VERY rich in minerals and could potentially cause problems with founder or colic if you fed too much. 

I imagine you could dehydrate shredded beets to make a kind of dried beet pulp (it would still have all of the sugars and minerals, so you would still want to feed only a small amount), but in my opinion it would not be worth the time it would take to make a very small amount of home made "beet pulp"

Bottom line, it probably could be done, but would be very time consuming and your finished product would not be the same thing that you buy at the feed store. I am a big fan of growing and making my own feed, but beet pulp is not something that is easy to replicate.

What are you hoping to gain from feeding beets?


----------



## Wintergrower_OH (Sep 21, 2010)

looking for feed for endurance riding . Here the list of what i'm looking at right now : black oil sunflower seeds , soy bean , cowpeas , oats and water melons . Whats wrong with gmo soy beans , cow peas or oats ? couldn't find any evidence that gmo is bad for horses other than its not popular .


----------



## Whisperwindkat (May 28, 2009)

Mangel beets are what you are looking for. They are a very large beet, not as much sugar as a sugar beet and store very well. They are hard to cut though since they are so large. They must be cut up though into bite size chunks or you risk a horse choking on them. If feeding the beets then you need to stay away from other carbs like corn or you will carb overload and like others said risk founder or colic. We feed them to all of our livestock. We chop them for the younger horses but our old stallion does better if we shred them. I would leave out the soybean unless you plan to cook it because raw beans of any kind are toxic in large enough amounts. soybeans also interfere with the endocrine system unless fermented. You will get enough protein from the cowpeas which are a much safer bet. Watermelons are super high in sugar content. I would leave that for the occasional treat but would not use it as part of my feed regimen. The sunflower is a good addition of fat. For endurance riding the oats, cowpeas and boss would make a good base feed. Just don't forget that you need a good mineral supplement. I would add alfalfa to that mix for the calcium. A good quality hay is a must as well. The mangel beets will add some much needed energy during training and competition, but you will only need limited quantities of this. Don't try to make them into beet pulp, just store them whole and then cut them up when ready to feed. Blessings, Kat


----------



## Wintergrower_OH (Sep 21, 2010)

Soy bean was the one one the list of Humm not so sure . The water melon was for treats only . My understanding is that non gmo might go over well where i have an opportunity to do small scale farming . Trying sell grandpa on this ideal . Alfalfa might go back on the list in limited quantity . Thanks . I have apple tree and chestnut tree that might come into play in a few years .


----------



## Molly Mckee (Jul 8, 2006)

If you are really going into endurance riding I would feed a high quality commercial feed with a good supplement. Unless you have a lot of knowledge and experience in the needs of a horse nutritionally under stress, you are more likely to cause problems than cure them. Any fresh feed is going to be a problem if you are doing rides away from home and it has to sit.
Horses are not very tolerant of bad/poor/moldy feed. Experimenting with them is going to be asking for trouble, asking them to give a high stress performance with unknown feed is not something I would do. 

During and right after WWII they feed horses stale bread in Germany. It kept them alive, but certainly wasn't optimal.


----------



## Lisa in WA (Oct 11, 2004)

Molly Mckee said:


> If you are really going into endurance riding I would feed a high quality commercial feed with a good supplement. Unless you have a lot of knowledge and experience in the needs of a horse nutritionally under stress, you are more likely to cause problems than cure them. Any fresh feed is going to be a problem if you are doing rides away from home and it has to sit.
> Horses are not very tolerant of bad/poor/moldy feed. Experimenting with them is going to be asking for trouble, asking them to give a high stress performance with unknown feed is not something I would do.
> 
> During and right after WWII they feed horses stale bread in Germany. It kept them alive, but certainly wasn't optimal.



Ditto what Molly said.


----------



## Wintergrower_OH (Sep 21, 2010)

You might say that i'm lucky guy . I will soon have my own personal horse vet . Gretchen sister will be graduating soon as a horse vet . Most of what i hope to grow will have more than one purpose . Horse , bird or deer plot , human food , pig or chicken feed , diesel fuel if they ever figure out how the average can convert sunflower to diesel cheaply . From time to time ride with the state endurance organization . competition is for someone who has lots of spare time or lives near miles of trail .


----------



## Lisa in WA (Oct 11, 2004)

Wintergrower_OH said:


> You might say that i'm lucky guy . I will soon have my own personal horse vet . Gretchen sister will be graduating soon as a horse vet . Most of what i hope to grow will have more than one purpose . Horse , bird or deer plot , human food , pig or chicken feed , diesel fuel if they ever figure out how the average can convert sunflower to diesel cheaply . From time to time ride with the state endurance organization . competition is for someone who has lots of spare time or lives near miles of trail .


Endurance riding (even occasionally) is generally for people who have enough time and space to condition their horses. Asking them to do an endurance ride "from time to time" is pretty darned hard on a horse. I have no idea who "Gretchen sister" is but I'm sure she can tell you that.


----------



## wr (Aug 10, 2003)

Wintergrower_OH, I'm not sure how many acres you're planning on seeding to meet the needs of a special diet but if you're planning on avoiding commercial supplements, the first thing you need to do is start with some serious soil analysis because the supplements you're avoiding also make up for soil deficiencies which translates into nutritional deficiencies for your horse. 

The other thing that comes to mind is that your horse's nutritional needs are also based on the work they do. Hotter feed for an endurance horse who is only going to compete once in a while translates into a hot, snotty horse most of the time.


----------



## Wintergrower_OH (Sep 21, 2010)

what about using a rational balancer ? I agree on not having the horse hot . I need to get more educated on this area before the horse show next spring in Columbus Ohio . Now if only Lindsey (horse vet student) would be home long enough to explore her brains on this subject . I am aware of only one endurance race for a long term goal . Not a problem with getting the soil analysis . I know of two people who have graduated from OSU ATI farm program .


----------



## TroutRiver (Nov 26, 2010)

Vets are not nutritionists. Just because your friend went to vet school does not mean that she's qualified to advise you on creating your own feed ration from crops grown on your land, especially crops that aren't traditionally used as horse feed. Most vet schools only require one or two courses on general nutrition, this does not even begin to cover the complexities of growing your own feed. 

WR hit the nail on the head, you will need to have soil analysis done on your land because any deficiencies in your soil will translate to deficiencies in your feed. 

If you want to grow your own feed, I would stick mostly to the grain crops that will store well. As someone else mentioned, making your own feed from fresh crops will make it very difficult to travel (with or without your horse), not to mention your horse will be eating seasonally.

Endurance riding is very hard on a horse, especially a horse that is not kept in condition year round, or a horse that does not have 100% of nutritional needs met. I am a huge supporter of growing your own feed. But I would recommend you start with a high quality commercial feed and do some more research. 

If you are not against GMO and soy, why are you against commercial feeds?


----------



## Molly Mckee (Jul 8, 2006)

I haven't used ration balancer, however if you want your horse to be in top condition for a show or anything else you need to start way before the show. You can't start feeding your horse for a special occasion right before the occasion and expect to see much. You might want to start now, so your horse is in optimum condition.

The main reason you don't experiment with horse feeds without a lot of education and experience is there is little room for error. Horses can't vomit so anything that goes in goes through the horse. Poor feed choices can cause founder as well as colic, among other things. If you have ever seen a bad case of either there is no way you would take a chance on doing that to your horse.
If you are trying to save money by growing you own feed, one episode of colic or founder will eliminate any savings and even if you don't make the horse sick the chance that you will get it in optimum condition is very slim. Researchers with PhD's work full time on horse nutrition, and find it takes a lot of time as well as trial and error to find new ways to feed horses and other animals.


----------



## wr (Aug 10, 2003)

If I wanted to save money and grow my own feed, I'd look at growing a good quality grass hay because realistically, that's pretty well all most horses need.


----------



## Wintergrower_OH (Sep 21, 2010)

I will not be growing gmo feed . Almost everything will be heirloom variety or organic . growing your own electrolites . dandelions ? substitutes ? I dont know enough about grasses yet as to which to go with . I was trying to find a grass that could be turn into diesel . 

white or red clover ? I need to keep track of grasses prices somehow to be able to sell or to trade at the best price . I will ask lindsey the next time i see her about nutrition and if she know someone to recommend . The nearest endurance race is 7 hour north of me that i would be interested in doing in the future.


----------



## offthegrid (Aug 11, 2009)

If I were going to grow something for my own horses, I'd definitely grow hay. It's the largest portion, most needed, and most expensive part of their diet. 

If I were going to ride in endurance races, I'd talk to my vet and also people that already compete in this type of sport. I don't think that the type of feed is as important as the conditioning, and I would think that hay would still be the most important feed. You can supplement with sunflower seeds, for example, but again, it's still a supplement to the mainstay diet - hay or grass.

How are horses fed during an endurance race? Does competitors carry their own feed (seems unlikely)...do you supply your own feeds at specific stations along the route? I'd be looking at what other (successful) competitors do - from conditioning (a year out from the race) to feeding during the race, and then deciding.

I probably would not intend to grow anything for a horse to compete in one race. What if it gets injured a month into training? But hay...you can't go wrong with that no matter what.


----------



## wr (Aug 10, 2003)

Wintergrower_OH, what are you currently feeding your horses and how many acres have you allotted for their feed?


----------



## Wintergrower_OH (Sep 21, 2010)

The number of acres depends on inheriting the land . Right now 15 acres . My guess around 80 acres . This is family land that is currently being farm . soil bean and corn . The family farm , is divided up between two brothers and grandpa . 2000 acres in all total . Most of the rides on weekend are around 20-30 miles . During week if their is time 6 miles a couple days a week . This could change when lindsey gets her practice going and its more in horse friendly part of the state .


----------



## Lazy J (Jan 2, 2008)

TroutRiver said:


> *Vets are not nutritionists.* Just because your friend went to vet school does not mean that she's qualified to advise you on creating your own feed ration from crops grown on your land, especially crops that aren't traditionally used as horse feed. Most vet schools only require one or two courses on general nutrition, this does not even begin to cover the complexities of growing your own feed.


I could not have stated this better!!!!! Your sister as a brand new vet will not have the knowledge to help you with the challenge you have. There are Ph.D. Trained Equine Nutritionists that don't agree on how to feed endurance horses, let alone a brand new vet with no knowledge of agronomy.

Instead of trying to reinvent the wheel, why not work with a local feed supplier and tap into their knowledge or access to trained nutritionists? I'm sure there are Purina, Kent, Hubbard, or other feed dealers that can help you with this challenge.

Jim


----------



## Wintergrower_OH (Sep 21, 2010)

We just got Purina at the local feed store . The feed owner are not horse people . A couple of German baptist guys . Nutrena tractor supply.


----------



## wr (Aug 10, 2003)

Wintergrower_OH said:


> We just got Purina at the local feed store . The feed owner are not horse people . A couple of German baptist guys . Nutrena tractor supply.


Is this because your horses are losing condition or you feel your hay isn't providing what they need or some other reason entirely.


----------



## Lisa in WA (Oct 11, 2004)

Wintergrower_OH said:


> The number of acres depends on inheriting the land . Right now 15 acres . My guess around 80 acres . This is family land that is currently being farm . soil bean and corn . The family farm , is divided up between two brothers and grandpa . 2000 acres in all total . Most of the rides on weekend are around 20-30 miles . During week if their is time 6 miles a couple days a week . This could change when lindsey gets her practice going and its more in horse friendly part of the state .



What kind of horses do you have?


----------



## Wintergrower_OH (Sep 21, 2010)

Down to one quarter . Looking at Nokota .


----------



## Whisperwindkat (May 28, 2009)

One of the best things you can do is to grow quality pastures in quality soil. Doing this has not only saved us a good deal of money in feed cost, but has improved the health of our livestock as well. It also saves us a lot of time trying to harvest a boatload of feed. Blessings, Kat


----------



## Wintergrower_OH (Sep 21, 2010)

The reason why . i need to sell the ideal to the "family" . If i can show that its worth diverting land that already being used for farming to something that benefit horses , generate enough profit to invest equipment and time (grandpa land) . Also , not to worry about shortages in feed or cost of having it deliver from long distance (fuel prices).


----------



## offthegrid (Aug 11, 2009)

Wintergrower_OH said:


> The reason why . i need to sell the ideal to the "family" . If i can show that its worth diverting land that already being used for farming to something that benefit horses , generate enough profit to invest equipment and time (grandpa land) . Also , not to worry about shortages in feed or cost of having it deliver from long distance (fuel prices).


Well...good luck with that.

If your family doesn't already own planting/harvesting equipment it is unlikely you'll be able to demonstrate a financial gain, especially if it's just for horses (which, by definition, are not money-makers, but money-burners...unless you have a successful breeding program.) The equipment cost will probably be prohibitively high. I'd love to hay my 10 acre field, but I could not justify buying the equipment. I'm looking to lease it to a hay farmer and see if I can at least reduce a little of my hay costs in the process.

Still, growing hay would be the best investment, in my opinion. It comprises the majority of the diet, can be sold for horses, cows, goats, etc. if you have extra, and can be stored in a dry building. Something like mangels or soybeans...not sure how you store them and they would certainly be less marketable to others if you had extra.


----------



## Molly Mckee (Jul 8, 2006)

If your family is real farmers you won't convince them. It does not make any sense to take land out of production, buy additional equipment, and experiment on your horse with the most likely outcome that of hurting your horse. 
If you are really interested in alternative feeds, find a way to get an education in animal nutrition. You obviously don't have the experience at this time to make a success of your idea and the obvious outcome is dangerous to your horse. Horses not conditioned right and feed properly have died on endurance rides.


----------



## Lisa in WA (Oct 11, 2004)

Molly Mckee said:


> If your family is real farmers you won't convince them. It does not make any sense to take land out of production, buy additional equipment, and experiment on your horse with the most likely outcome that of hurting your horse.
> If you are really interested in alternative feeds, find a way to get an education in animal nutrition. You obviously don't have the experience at this time to make a success of your idea and the obvious outcome is dangerous to your horse. Horses not conditioned right and feed properly have died on endurance rides.


It doesn't really seem like the OP has any horse experience at all.


----------



## DamnearaFarm (Sep 27, 2007)

Soooooo much to like on this thread...my trigger finger is cramping!!


----------



## Wintergrower_OH (Sep 21, 2010)

When did i say i was going to do this project today or next year . The breed of horse i would like to ride and own is in low numbers and not many available that are being breed to do endurance riding . Only one breeder currently doing this . Yes the nokata is capable of doing endurance distances , etc . Just not many people doing this . Time is on my side . You have no ideal of what farming equipment i have available or expertise . I do have access to most of the equipment needed or can get it . My friends who do know allot more than me i don't have a chance to talk with them very often . If someone can't explore what kind of problems or cost they might run into then why ask a question to a group of people who might know better . I do plan to bone up on nutrition . Then what the use . 

What i think of doing might not be practical or smart . But worth exploring before i spend a dime or get to excited . Not everybody lives in horse county where you have 5 people to go to for answers just down the road or grown up on a farm . I don't know of anybody local that does endurance riding . I depend on this group for answer because their aren't people to ask question to things i want to know more about ( like endurance riding) . The state endurance org is available when the time comes if i go this route ( they live 2 hours away) .Instead of discouraging someone , how about up lifting or pointing them in right direction . This the one thing that horse people seem to do allot . I don't want to have wait until the next horse show (not local) to get answer (my guess i will get the same response - go away with your question your to much of a greenhorn) ). 

Grandpa still has a few year ahead of him . So , If i get shot down by the family that ok . They have a better feel of whats going to work money wise . The family wouldn't be farming 2000 acres without being smart about their money . Which I've heard the talk plenty of time about other farmer they know make costly decision on risk to make a extra dime . I guess i need to go else where to get "friendly" advice . I have gotten some advice on this group on thing to stay away from . Which i appreciate . Most people around here are strictly trail rider and a little barrel racing .


----------



## wr (Aug 10, 2003)

Nobody has suggested you go away or discouraged you from asking questions but we have pointed out certain things that are important things to consider. I think research is always a good thing but I also think that if you're asking questions, you're going to get a fairly broad range of answers based on individual experience. 

Right now, it seems you have very little experience within the areas you've discussed and while everybody has to start somewhere, the learning curve is a lot less steep if you do a substantial amount of homework.


----------



## Wintergrower_OH (Sep 21, 2010)

I agree that i have little experience in nutrition . Would going to a horse sports vet be a good start . Most of the horse vet around here are fairly new (2 years ) to the area and years of experience (10 years of practice exp ) . I just found horse Vet Doc Matt , who is horse sport vet . No horse nutritionist nearby . Cleveland and south of columbus . I will continue to ask question after i make contact with Matt .


----------



## Molly Mckee (Jul 8, 2006)

The reason I have responded to your questions/statements is to try to discourage you from hurting your horse. 
You seem to be very young, this is the time for you to learn. Animal nutrition is a good field to go into if you are so interested in it. Don't depend on answers from friends, or strangers on the internet. Get an education.

My kids were champion endurance riders, we have friends that are some of the leaders in the sport. I don't know anything about the horses you want, but I do know that percentage wise Arabians and Arab crosses are the most successful endurance horses. Most people will do better not trying to re invent the wheel, but increase their knowledge of what is working.


----------



## 2horses (Jul 19, 2004)

I don't get what the objective is. What exactly are you trying to do?


----------



## Lisa in WA (Oct 11, 2004)

Molly Mckee said:


> The reason I have responded to your questions/statements is to try to discourage you from hurting your horse.
> You seem to be very young, this is the time for you to learn. Animal nutrition is a good field to go into if you are so interested in it. Don't depend on answers from friends, or strangers on the internet. Get an education.
> 
> My kids were champion endurance riders, we have friends that are some of the leaders in the sport. I don't know anything about the horses you want, but I do know that percentage wise Arabians and Arab crosses are the most successful endurance horses. Most people will do better not trying to re invent the wheel, but increase their knowledge of what is working.



I would go for an Arab too. Malinda who posts here is also an endurance rider (among other talents).


----------



## Wintergrower_OH (Sep 21, 2010)

Ok . I've give the group a little education or history of nokota . Nokota is breed that mainly in the Dakota's . Nokota do have Arabian blood from the Spanish Arabian brought over to central America in the 1600 . The us government tried to wipe them out . Luckily some were hidden in Roosevelt nation park . Their two different types of Nokota . One is about 15 hands and other is 16 hands . Thier are about 1000 left . I'm young when it comes to nutrition and farming . I've been riding off and on for more than 20 years . Its now looking like i might have a chance of having pasture finally and having others who are passionate about riding to ride with . Most of the horse i've ridden have been rented or somebody else's . We have not had any decent number of horse vets in the area until 2 years ago . The number is up from 2 older vets ( close to retirement ) to 6 new vets who are not so specialized that i have to go out of town for a vet . Which is very good news . We have had more farrier than vets for 20 + years .


----------



## Wintergrower_OH (Sep 21, 2010)

My objective is to feed the "Nokota" from what i've grown , trade if we are having drought like condition , grow food/ feed that have more than one use (profit ) or in the case of black oil seed (diesel ) . Maybe convince the family of growing cover crop to replenish the soil . Cover crop = horse feed . Growing only for horses make no sense (taking away large acres from farming ) . The amount acres is still up in the air that i will be allowed to use . I just sent a question to the new president of the nokota conservatory (sp) about nutrition .


----------



## Molly Mckee (Jul 8, 2006)

You might want to read about what happened when the army remount went out of business, as well as during the dust bowl and depression to horses that were still on the farms. There were thousands of horses turned loose in the west, I doubt that there are any purebred anythings that go back to " wild horses".

What I have been suggesting is that YOU learn about horse nutrition, not ask other people. Go to school, take online courses-if you want your ideas to have any respect or authority.


----------



## Wintergrower_OH (Sep 21, 2010)

Don't let the kiger mustang or choctaw breeder hear you say that . They have been trying to weed out the ones that have too much of another breed . Their are examples of pure breed . Just very few that the tribes manager to hide from the government. I ask rory to have the nokota endurance riders to do a blog or post it on their web page . These horse have been wild for most of their life . The nakota have no experience with feed out of a bag like purina . All grass . Since these are wild horse i doubt their is any nutrition studies done yet . Which is fine . Their bodies have not been polluted by the white mans feed . Their are oppotunties to study these horses every summer in a round up . I just would have to make a trip to North dakota . i will look for online classes and make trips out to the Dakotas .


----------



## Lisa in WA (Oct 11, 2004)

:smack


----------



## 2horses (Jul 19, 2004)

wow - just... wow.

Where on earth are you getting your information hun?


----------



## wr (Aug 10, 2003)

Wintergrower_OH said:


> Don't let the kiger mustang or choctaw breeder hear you say that . They have been trying to weed out the ones that have too much of another breed . Their are examples of pure breed . Just very few that the tribes manager to hide from the government. I ask rory to have the nokota endurance riders to do a blog or post it on their web page . These horse have been wild for most of their life . The nakota have no experience with feed out of a bag like purina . All grass . Since these are wild horse i doubt their is any nutrition studies done yet . Which is fine . Their bodies have not been polluted by the white mans feed . Their are oppotunties to study these horses every summer in a round up . I just would have to make a trip to North dakota . i will look for online classes and make trips out to the Dakotas .


Interestingly enough, many equines have never had feed from a bag but that doesn't mean that their dietary requirements are different than other equines. Mine live on grass in the summer and grass hay in the winter and when they're working hard, they might get a bit of oats. If you want to keep your Nakota horse away from white man feed, I would suggest you consider native prairie grass in summer and prairie wool in winter (which incidentally tests low for protein but is very high in serviceable protein). 

To suggest that Nakota horses dietary requirements are totally different than other horses makes as much sense as saying that Herefords need a totally different diet than Red Angus. 

Ultimately, I think this thread has become quite confusing and while I can see how you might want to plan for the future, it's a good idea to figure out how many acres you're working with, how the soil tests (before you start seeding) and check with your ag office as to what grows well in your area and most of all, one generally seeds based on comodity value. If you're looking for a consistent crop that seldom loses value, I would suggest considering hay and if you're looking for a rapid growing grass seed that's perfect for rotational grazing, I would encourage you to look into cicer milkvetch.


----------



## Lisa in WA (Oct 11, 2004)

2horses said:


> wow - just... wow.
> 
> Where on earth are you getting your information hun?



the people marketing "nokota" horses. :yawn:


----------



## wr (Aug 10, 2003)

The Nokota Horse Conservancy has quite a few breeders listed and there might be a couple that are close to you:

http://www.nokotahorse.org/cms/partnerships/nokota-breeders-sp-270.html

It doesn't sound like they're overly rare or uncommon but it is my understanding that the feral band is relatively small but from what I've read, those are not for sale or adoption (like mustangs might be) and it is the feral band that there is a strong desire to protect.


----------



## offthegrid (Aug 11, 2009)

Wintergrower_OH said:


> My objective is to feed the "Nokota" from what i've grown , trade if we are having drought like condition , grow food/ feed that have more than one use (profit ) or in the case of black oil seed (diesel ) . Maybe convince the family of growing cover crop to replenish the soil . Cover crop = horse feed . Growing only for horses make no sense (taking away large acres from farming ) . The amount acres is still up in the air that i will be allowed to use . I just sent a question to the new president of the nokota conservatory (sp) about nutrition .


If this is your objective, the issue of "endurance riding" is not really that relevant, and I think that is where people are getting confused/agitated.

Maximizing any farmland is a complicated venture, and it's worth exploring any and all options. Just be smart about your goals, and you'll be fine. If your goal is to feed a Nokota (or any horse) on what you've grown on the farm, and can trade, and can replenish the soil...that makes sense and deserves thought and exploration. 

Feeding an endurance horse will be specific to that particular animal and its specific training schedule; so it won't likely be realistic (nor profitable) to plan to farm around its particular needs. But that doesn't mean you can't make a plan for farming to feed horses (and potentially a bit of profit on the side), and maybe if you're lucky you can even supplement your endurance horse as well. 

But I would be careful not to tie the two things together - what works for your farm may not work for your horse. And vice versa. Doesn't mean they both can't be successful, but not necessarily all in one efficient package. And that's not bad or good...it's just what it is. 

Good luck!


----------

