# small draft breeds



## Pops2

i'm not talking hotbloods or warmbloods that can act as draft (or is it draught) horses. i mean small actual draft breeds w/ the draft breed personality & heavy structure.


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## SFM in KY

The smallest of the actual draft breeds is the Suffolk. They are not common, but there are some ... I think they do tend to be in the 16 hand or a bit under range.

There are several dual purpose breeds that are certainly suitable as small drafts and were originally developed for light farm work as well as for occasional riding. These include the Haflingers, Fjords, Fell Ponies ... probably other breeds I'm forgetting at the moment ... but the modern trend has been toward riding type so you would need to look for the older foundation type, draftier animals.


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## chris30523

I have the draft type haflingers. They are very nice to drive. My girls are about 14 hands. You do have to be careful with haflingers and get the draft type. I am told the taller riding type can be a handful.


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## Bret4207

I have Percherons and Haflingers. The Haffies are a joy.


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## Otter

Are you looking for a breed to get into breeding, or a work horse?

Nearly every draft breed will be split into two lines. Shorter, stockier, heavier boned original type. And then those bred to win at American shows, which will be at least a hand higher and leggier. Like the Friesien, they used to be pretty uniform, between 15 and 16 HH as a breed, and most of them closer to 15. Now there are 17 HH ones. For some reason it seems draft judges want everything to have the conformation of a Shire. Right now the breed that has been molested the least is the Brabant.
So if you're looking to breed, then you probably want a Brabant or a Haflinger. But be careful, there are some riding lines of Haflinger that will still be lighter boned and hotter tempered then what they should be.

If you are looking for a workhorse, find where the closest place is the Amish buy and sell. You'll find everything from Standardbreds off the track to every body type of draft.


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## bergere

There are very few of the old type draft work horse's left. People in this country seem to want to super size them, make them more narrow and to hyper to do any kind of work.

Suffolks back in the day, (at least the friend of my Dad knew when I was a kid), were running 14.3 to 15 hands of pure power for all day farm work. He raised true to type Suffolks.
But even these drafts have been upsized.

Only draft horse I know of that is true to type/size now a days is the Brabant and those can be hard to find. They are lovely drafts.

Another option besides a Draft type Haflinger is..
The older type Fjords also do draft work. Know a few people that use them for both farm work, plowing and logging.


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## DamnearaFarm

My favorite small draft is the gypsy- but durned pricey for work  Next would be the Haflinger or Fjord.


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## GrannyCarol

What about the Canadians? I'm not that familiar with them, but have read up in the past and thought they seemed pretty cool.


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## Shades of Gray

I'm with RamblinRose, Gypsy Vanner horses are indeed a small draft, and were carefully selected for temperment. If your your not going to show them then you can find some relatively cheap. With gypsys they put an extremely high priority on feathering, so the more feather the more expensive the horse. Those with not enough feather are not used for breeding, so you might pick one up at the right price. Plus they are sooo pretty!!


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## chewie

a friend has suffolks, and they aren't real tall, but dang, they are w-i-d-e!! we'd like to get a pair someday. deep deep red, and this fella's were fairly quiet.


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## Chixarecute

Would an old style Morgan be considered drafty enough, or dual-purpose?


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## DamnearaFarm

I don't know what you consider relatively cheap, Gray but most gypsies are still several thousand dollars regardless. 
And yeah, they look like great big ol' stuffed toys


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## Quiet Guy

Pops2 said:


> i'm not talking hotbloods or warmbloods that can act as draft (or is it draught) horses. i mean small actual draft breeds w/ the draft breed personality & heavy structure.


Your not saying why you want some drafts, so would a pair of draft crosses fit what you are looking for?


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## Pops2

don't want anything right now. down the road will be wanting a draft mare to breed pack mules for working the back country out here where i just moved to.


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## jennigrey

Pack mules out of small draft mares? Any particular reason you want them out of small draft mares?


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## SFM in KY

Depending on the actual size you want and the kind of country you're working them in, some of the prettiest mules I've ever seen were mules bred by a dude ranch in Wyoming years ago out of Fjord mares. Cowboys there said they were small enough to be active on bad/narrow trails, big enough to pack a reasonable load and pretty enough the dudes loved them.


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## rileyjo

I have a Canadian. Heavily muscled, short backed 14.3hh horse thats built for working. They are usually black with a distinctive brown muzzle. Mine is trained to cart. Solid chunk of a horse with a willing attitude.

When the forests of Quebec and Ontario were first being logged, the loggers found that the big draft breeds couldnt manouver well in the dense forests. They selected and bred a smaller draft horse that lived with them in the camps. The Canadian nearly went extinct but has been brought back from about 350 horses to now over 5000. I doubt that they are easy to find anywhere but in this region.


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## Quiet Guy

Pops2 said:


> don't want anything right now. down the road will be wanting a draft mare to breed pack mules for working the back country out here where i just moved to.


In that case I would go with suffolk punch. Their feet are as hard as a mules.
A lot of the bigger breeds have feet that leave a lot to be desired.


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## CIW

The mare doesn't have as much to do with the adult size of the mule as does the Jack. Also the Jack will put a high quality foot on his offspring.
By breeding a large standard jack to say, a 16 to 17h percheron mare, will give you a mule that matures around 14 1/2 to 15 1/2hh.
If you cross a mammoth (58" or taller) jack on the same mare you can end up with 2 to 4 more inches. When you breed to the high end of the mammoths (61"+)you can easily go over 17hh using the same mare.
This can be schewed by a small jack that has some tall animals in his background. Just do your homework. A good jack is harder to find than a good stud horse.
My experience is that I hate throwing a pack on an animal any larger than 14 2hh. Especially if I'm lashing a top pack. I usually end up somehow doing it from the down hill side.
And they get caught in the trees. You end up catching the lash rope, tearing the manti or a clients sleeping bag. Also I can't see over the string of animals that I'm leading when they are smaller. 
Look for a Jack that has a small head and alot of bone. That will transfer directly to his get. Go see some of his babies. Those qualities along with good tempered parents, and some others will make a draft/pack animal. Things like straight legs, big knees, deep girth, well sprung ribs and a long slender neck also add to the equation.
I didn't mean to change the focus of the thread but there is another direction to look once you start making a hybrid.


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## jennigrey

Additionally, some mares won't take a jack. Mule-making is both an art and a science. Not saying you shouldn't try!


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## Pops2

CIW
thank you. my thinking is to use a small standard size BLM jack over the smallest (normal size not runt or anything odd) draft mare i can find to produce a smaller but powerful mule for packing (maybe even riding, but would probably just be better off buying a good riding mule that already jumps). i'd like to wind up w/ draft mules in the 12-13H range.


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## longshot38

if you can find them check out Newfoundland Ponies. pound for pound these are the strongest equines in the world. they are easy keepers and great little horses.

just my opinion.

dean


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## CIW

I hope that you will see what I say in the constructive manner that it is meant.
Although I haven't seen every BLM Donkey around, I have had some experience with them.
They lack the quality in thier conformation. Especially the underpinning needed to acomplish what you are describing. Those little donks have no whither. In fact they are usually extremely mutton backed. Most of all they assuredly do not produce quality mules because of the undesirable traits that most posess. You'll end up with a barrel on four legs.
Thier background is especially directed back to the small Sicillian donkeys brought over with the Spanish in the 15 and 1600's. 
There is one thing for certain when it comes to mules. In fact any kind of hybrid. You pay for what you get. Quality breeds quality and junk breeds junk.
Your results will be far more desirable if you are willing to invest. Whether it be breeding and raising your own. Or purchasing one at any stage in life. 
If I might suggest.
Purchase a 14 1/2 to 15h, 1/2 draft comprised of a QH mare and a chunk Percheron Stud. Cross that mare onto a quality Standard Jack. I believe that you will have a good chance of great sucess.
I haven't seen where you spoke about where you live.
Over around the center of Tenn. and Kentucky they like to pull ponies. You can find those kinds of cross bred mares over there.
If you are further West there is a small group of fellers over around Tetonia, Idaho that likes to pull ponies. They will have the kind your in need of.
By the way the smallest breed of draft horse that I know of is the shetland. They were originally bred to pull mine cars in and out of the small shaft tin mines. The miners crawled around on their hands and knees because the shafts were dug small and by hand.


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## DamnearaFarm

Draft Horse and Mule show here on the 11th of September, if anyone's close enough. Be a good chance to see genetics in action.


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## Pops2

Thank you CIW
i will actually save what you posted to give me better guidance. i am fairly ignorant of mules & donks & am a couple of years from actually getting any equines. i figured now would be a good time to start the research.


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## wr

In my opinion, the most expensive animal you can own is one you bred and raised. Essentially, you need to purchase your brood stock, breed, hope your breeding program gives you a live baby that meets your expectations and then you have all associated costs for the 3 years, plus training (even if you're qualified to train yourself, your time is valuable) and when they're about 5 you can start seeing the results. 

I feel that in the long run, it would be far cheaper to purchase a trained mule and fine tune the training to include packing.


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## GrannyCarol

Not only cheaper, but much more likely to get exactly what you are looking for! Once you have experience, then you'll know if you want to start from scratch to raise and train a baby.


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