# I will continue to value my 2nd A right and carry concealed...



## Shrek (May 1, 2002)

...but yesterday as I wrote and mailed the check to renew my permit for this year and thinking that although my state is a "may issue ", it is convenient that our Sheriff allows CCW license renewals by mail except for the year that our driver's licenses have to be renewed with current stats and picture_____then it occurred to me.

The state charges me $25 for a drivers license that renews every 5 years and to renew my CCW license for the same 5 years costs me $100 and by renewing by mail to ensure I have a valid license on my person my CCW renewal date often ends up a few days short of a year as the pistol license division renews them and mails them back for the same reason I mail the check in early____to ensure I remain legally permitted.

It seems ironic to me that a privilege as driving costs me 75% less than the cost exercising my 2nd Amendment right does.

I don't like it but I figure the $20 a year is worth it and at least our Sheriff is using the pistol license revenue to reduce costs of school resource officers and purchase canine body armor for the department. 

I have always thought that if the K-9 is often the first "officer" sent in , they deserve Kevlar to wear as much as their handler partner does.


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## GREENCOUNTYPETE (Jul 25, 2006)

we are shall issue not may issue 20 or 24 dollars for a 8 year drivers license , and 50 for a 5 year carry license 

the may issue bothers me , i know you have had carry a lot longer than we have in AL and it seems to work but I don't like things being up to the discretion of a politician.

it doesn't help that AL denied possibly the most famous concealed carry permit application ever. for insufficient need


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## Shrek (May 1, 2002)

Our county sheriffs including the Constitutional ones are saying that the May Issue license procedure allows them to restrict concealed carry even if an applicant passes the criminal conviction and mental or personality issue background check if officers within their departments have insight to the applicant that may have passed through the usual checks.

I have known some initially declined applicants who when initially denied, re submitted and went through the interview again and were approved.

At least with our application process there is no fee unless you are approved and your CCW license is issued or renewed.


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## GREENCOUNTYPETE (Jul 25, 2006)

While i can understand their desire to have that decision be theirs to make, here is a bold statement coming 

just like I would rather have criminals with guns than a government with a list of every law abiding gun owner and his/her guns 

I would rather have a moron , or idiot ,or questionable individual with a carry license than a politician who can decide on a whim who can and can't have a carry license , constitutional or not , because far to often non constitutional sheriffs use that as a way to keep all but the politically connected from having a carry permit , just look at how it is used in California and many east coast states some sheriffs are great and some not so.

the people who shouldn't carry will carry any way , criminals don't follow rules , so rules can only punish the people who follow them.

if we are denied a license they send back our check with the denial letter so your only out the stamps , if you go to the store and buy a pistol then apply for a carry license provided you fill out the form and sign it your almost guaranteed to pass the background check is run on the same database as your gun purchase.

I am actually a fan of constitutional carry , with the option to get a license if you want , to cover you for out of state and school zones 
school zones are an issue here almost impossible to drive thru most towns or cities with out driving thru one hence the need for a license.


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## bassmaster17327 (Apr 6, 2011)

Wow your guys license to carry is kind of expensive, ours are 20.00 for five years regardless of what county you are in (state law). The maximum time they can take to issue the license is 45 days but when I took my GF to apply on her birthday we walked in with the application and 15 minutes later walked out with her LTCF


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## Shrek (May 1, 2002)

The only benefit that I can see background check and licensing providing is that it generates added tax revenue for the S.O. and if you are licensed at least if stopped by a LEO and searched for weapons, you stand a better chance in being able to keep your weapon instead of the LEO taking it with them. Even if licenses were eliminated in favor of constitutional carry in plain view or concealed, I would still pack concealed simply for the element of surprise. The only other possible benefit of licensing might be to pacify the anti-gun crowd with a toothless lion to offer them illusion of increased safety. As Pete said,only law abiding citizens abide by the laws.


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## wannabechef (Nov 20, 2012)

Shall issue here and fingerprints every renewal. It's stupid to pay to exercise a right.


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## GREENCOUNTYPETE (Jul 25, 2006)

wannabechef said:


> Shall issue here and fingerprints every renewal. It's stupid to pay to exercise a right.


wheres here?


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## GREENCOUNTYPETE (Jul 25, 2006)

no finger prints here , no picture on your CCL it has to be carried with your DL or state id 

they did a lot to try and protect us and you if you visit Wisconsin 

no stats can be kept on us , the names of CCL holders are sealed and not public record , only law enforcement making an actual traffic stop or the likes may verify your CCL with DOJ data base , any of these things is a crime and would likely be a career ender 

they wrote in protections for out of state CCL CCP holders to carry in school zones something the Fed does not recognize 

and we have a lot of accepted reciprocity states , we accept a lot more than accept us , if your CCL or CCP used a NICS background search it will probably be good here but check our DOJ web site to verify 


we were on the path to constitutional carry but school zones were going to be a real issue , we were going to need a license to take to other states and we actually had a number of extremely liberal willing democrats from Milwaukee actually listening to their constituents to sign on to a simple license , a license was probably the only way that Milwaukean's were going to avoid harassment from their police chief and his department , as it is if you do have to shoot some one in Milwakee just figure your gun is gone and distroyed and it was the price of saving your self , it has taken one of the first concealed carriers involved in a shoot over a year of trying to get his gun back after he stopped a grocery store robbery that was escalating and not looking good , still not sure if he has it back 

and as Shrek said CC is just easier in a lot of ways if no one ever sees it they don't know it's there and it can't ever cause a problem , get looks , questions and such.

OC has a strong deterrent factor , and can be more comfortable with owb holsters , but just OC presents issues if you coat covers or an officer feels it isn't in plain view (how he saw it if it wasn't in plain view is beyond me) but with CC OC both legal with a CCL we don't worry about printing or often even trying all that hard to conceal most people are not looking any way


I wish we could have just recognized everyone's rights fully and had constitutional carry but with so many federal laws limiting constitutional carry without license that included a back ground check , what we got isn't a bad compromise maybe some day we can do better like allowing CC with the same restrictions OC currently has without a license.


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## bassmaster17327 (Apr 6, 2011)

No finger prints or classes required in PA, I would like to get a FL license but I refuse to be fingerprinted like a criminal. We can OC without a license as long as you are not in a vehicle, school zone, under state of emergency, or in city of first class (philly). I have a license but I OC 99% of the time


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## Cornhusker (Mar 20, 2003)

We are "shall issue"
$100 the first time, $50 renewal and we have to get new pictures every time I think
I agree it's stupid to pay for a right, but we can OC without a license.
Some of our cities and towns tried to outlaw carrying guns, but the Attorney General of Nebraska gave the opinion that cities don't have the legal right to override state law or the state constitution


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## GREENCOUNTYPETE (Jul 25, 2006)

bassmaster17327 said:


> No finger prints or classes required in PA, I would like to get a FL license but I refuse to be fingerprinted like a criminal. We can OC without a license as long as you are not in a vehicle, school zone, under state of emergency, or in city of first class (philly). I have a license but I OC 99% of the time


we have always been able to OC but we can OC in a car now everywhere but a school zone
but long guns have to be unloaded but no longer cased or out of reach 

glad you have it good in PA


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## bassmaster17327 (Apr 6, 2011)

Long guns have to be unloaded and they do not have to be cased. We do have a law that says "no county or municipality may in any way regulate the legal sale,transfer,transportation or possesion of firearms deemed legal by the commonwealth". When the castle bill passed it added that "no government agency may regulate firearms", some of us are argueing with DCNR because they say we can not OC in State Parks


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## bassmaster17327 (Apr 6, 2011)

A few years ago a women OC'ed to her kids soccer team and was arrested, she beat all the charges and then filed a one million dollar lawsuit against the police department. Before anything happened with the lawsuit she was supposably killed by her husband who then killed himself, awfully convienent for the PD that was being sued.

More recently a Philly man was harrassed and arrested for OC, along with the ACLU he filed a lawsuit against the PD and they settled out of court. Here is the audio from his harrassment, [ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z-vUYeJXSrA[/ame]


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## GREENCOUNTYPETE (Jul 25, 2006)

while OC was never illegal here a lot of cities and towns tried to make it so with local ordinances
a court case gave the proof it that it was not in 1995 , since then our Wisconsin OC movement has done a lot and we should all thank those who open carried and helped win us legal recognition and concealed carry , the endured much harassment , were drug through the courts many times and filed and one many lawsuits against the cities that wrongfully charged them.

still cracks me up though when some idiot sees someone open carrying and says oh that's that concealed carry thing , no if it was concealed carry you wouldn't have seen it.


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## brownegg (Jan 5, 2006)

I'm not trying to be picky GreenCountyPete, but the $50 is non-fundable if you don't qualify for a lisence. If you were to make a clerical mistake, then they send it back with the check and have you re submit....otherwise you are out the stamps and the $50...just sayin.

brownegg


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## GREENCOUNTYPETE (Jul 25, 2006)

brownegg said:


> I'm not trying to be picky GreenCountyPete, but the $50 is non-fundable if you don't qualify for a lisence. If you were to make a clerical mistake, then they send it back with the check and have you re submit....otherwise you are out the stamps and the $50...just sayin.
> 
> brownegg


your probably correct , i looked and could not find a spot where it specifically said that , i am also not being picky but please link or cite if you see it an i am missing it , the renewal is 25 dollars.

i haven't run into anyone who applied and was denied so far i think there have only been 200 and some out of 164,000 I have heard of a few that got their forms and checks returned for forgetting to sign all the boxes or missed info.

we are approaching the 5% of eligible at less than 2 years that it's opponents said would never happen

so if your in a room of 20 or more adults in a non prohibited place chances are 1 is carrying.


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## simi-steading (Sep 27, 2012)

I love a cop that doesn't know the laws... :umno:

Sure do love a cop that uses such colorful language too when a person is being respectful with them.... I'd have their badges... I sure didn't hear any honor or integrity...


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## Danaus29 (Sep 12, 2005)

Open carry is legal here, no license required. But Columbus cops would probably be as rabid as Philly cops.


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## wannabechef (Nov 20, 2012)

GREENCOUNTYPETE said:


> wheres here?


Georgia...


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## wannabechef (Nov 20, 2012)

Georgia actually has some of the most lax gun laws in the country...even better than Texas, I'm thankful for that but I still hate being treated like a criminal in order to utilize a right.


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## brownegg (Jan 5, 2006)

Here you go Pete...first sentence in fees and payment. It' a pdf.

http://www.doj.state.wi.us/sites/all/themes/wi-doj-ag/dles/ccw/concealed-carry-application.pdf


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## ralph perrello (Mar 8, 2013)

I am 72 years old.
In 1959 at age 18, I received a CCW in NY state. It was issued for life. I still have it even though I am no longer a resident of NY. At that time you could not buy a handgun without a permit. The hand gun is registered and they know all about you so they can confiscate whenever. I am now a full time RV'er (looking for a place of my own again) and they will have a great time finding me.


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## CesumPec (May 20, 2011)

I thought the supremes had ruled that carrying in a school zone was allowed on a public road because it would create too difficult compliance. I could be wrong.


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## wannabechef (Nov 20, 2012)

CesumPec said:


> I thought the supremes had ruled that carrying in a school zone was allowed on a public road because it would create too difficult compliance. I could be wrong.


There is no law about passing through a school zone armed...or not now.


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## unregistered41671 (Dec 29, 2009)

wannabechef said:


> There is no law about passing through a school zone armed...or not now.


Correct
As a matter of fact, in GA you can be armed in your vehicle while picking up or dropping off your child in a school zone. 

http://www.georgiapacking.org/GaCode/?title=16&chapter=11&section=127.1

"(7) A person who is licensed in accordance with Code Section 16-11-129 or issued a permit pursuant to Code Section 43-38-10, when such person carries or picks up a student at a school building, school function, or school property or on a bus or other transportation furnished by the school or a person who is licensed in accordance with Code Section 16-11-129 or issued a permit pursuant to Code Section 43-38-10 when he or she has any weapon legally kept within a vehicle when such vehicle is parked at such school property or is in transit through a designated school zone;"


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## CesumPec (May 20, 2011)

wannabechef said:


> There is no law about passing through a school zone armed...or not now.


That's what I thought but GreenCountyPete says CCW was required to comply with Wisconsin school zones. So I'm wondering if he got bad info, which is quite possible from the MSM especially about gun issues, if this is some peculiar Wisconsin thing, or if it was a formerly legit concern made moot by SCOTUS.

Not a real concern for me since I never get up that way, but I like to keep informed of such things.


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## wannabechef (Nov 20, 2012)

CesumPec said:


> That's what I thought but GreenCountyPete says CCW was required to comply with Wisconsin school zones. So I'm wondering if he got bad info, which is quite possible from the MSM especially about gun issues, if this is some peculiar Wisconsin thing, or if it was a formerly legit concern made moot by SCOTUS.
> 
> Not a real concern for me since I never get up that way, but I like to keep informed of such things.


What if you lived within a school zone? 

Think about it, it's just not possible to enforce.


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## CesumPec (May 20, 2011)

Possum Belly said:


> Correct
> As a matter of fact, in GA you can be armed in your vehicle while picking up or dropping off your child in a school zone.


same with Florida. The gun free zone is in the building. In south Florida there are a lot of schools with exterior hallways. I'm not sure if standing in an exterior hallway would be illegal but would assume it was illegal until proven otherwise.


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## GREENCOUNTYPETE (Jul 25, 2006)

it is up to each state when they write their concealed carry law what they choose to allow a License to do in a school zone. we may get up to but not on school property. 

other states you may go on school property but not in the building 

or keep it in your car 

each state is different in that matter below is from the WI DOJ web site 

A.
 Firearms 

Are there restrictions on carrying a firearm on school property? 

Yes. It is 
a felony
 for a person to knowingly 
possess

a 
firearm
 (concealed or 
otherwise) on the
 grounds
 of a school. 
Wis. Stat. Â§ 948.605(2)(a).


It is a 
forfeiture
 for a person to knowingly possess a firearm (concealed or 
otherwise) at a place that the person knows or has reasonable cause to believe 
is 
within 1,000 feet of the grounds
 of a school. 
Wis. Stat. Â§ 948.605(2)(a). 

What are the exceptions? 

There are a number of exceptions to the restrictions on possessing a firearm in 
or on school grounds or within 1,000 feet of school grounds. 

It is lawful to possess a firearm 
in or on the grounds of a

school or within 
1,000 feet of the grounds of a school 
as follows: 

&#61623;
 On private property that is not part of school grounds. 
Wis. Stat. 
Â§ 948.605(2)(b)1m 
and

18 USC 922(q)(2)(B)(i). 
&#61623;
 For use in a program approved by a school in the school zone. 
Wis. Stat. 
Â§ 948.605(2)(b)1m 
and

18 USC 922(q)(2)(B)(iv).


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## GREENCOUNTYPETE (Jul 25, 2006)

wannabechef said:


> What if you lived within a school zone?
> 
> Think about it, it's just not possible to enforce.


If you are on private property withing 1000 feet then you may carry or posses as you are on private property 

you may if not a licensed CCL unload and encase and or lock a firearm in accordance with SAFE TRANSPORT LAW by the way SAFE is the only way to legally get thru IL


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## GREENCOUNTYPETE (Jul 25, 2006)

wannabechef said:


> There is no law about passing through a school zone armed...or not now.


federal school zone law prohibits the carry of or possession of guns that are not unloaded and encased or locked within 1000 feet of a school grounds but states may make licensed exceptions


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## wannabechef (Nov 20, 2012)

GREENCOUNTYPETE said:


> federal school zone law prohibits the carry of or possession of guns that are not unloaded and encased or locked within 1000 feet of a school grounds but states may make licensed exceptions


Not in the case of roadways or living within the zone.

The state cannot be less restrictive than federal law....at least in the case of guns...but marijuana is ok...go figure!


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## wannabechef (Nov 20, 2012)

There is a huge difference between driving a car on a road within a school zone and walking into one with a gun.


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## wannabechef (Nov 20, 2012)

I was partially incorrect:

"In many cases, state firearms laws can be considerably less restrictive than federal firearms laws. This does not confer any de jure immunity against prosecution for violations of the federal laws. However, state and local police departments are not legally obligated to enforce federal gun law as per the U.S. Supreme Court's ruling in Printz v. United States.[5][6]"

It appears its the same as marijuana...


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## GREENCOUNTYPETE (Jul 25, 2006)

yes thank you , federal school zone law is a strange law , but it permits states to allow exceptions as long as a background check and permit or license is used to offer the exceptions on broad terms or contract or special permission on narrow terms.

unfortunate it was the very law that many anti carry police departments choose to enforce on open carriers , because they didn't like open carry. back to that control thing which is what it is all about. 

what would be interesting is if a case could be made that local LEO could not enforce federal school zone law , as is the case with NON federal agents enforcing immigration law. I think that the immigration law thing set the stage for a very good argument that NO state or local LEO can enforce anything but a state or local law.

mind control , in many ways you can link it back to some basic things like upping the age for drinking form 18-21 , so your telling someone that they are an adult punishable by all adult laws but that they are not a real adult because they have kept some things from you. It seems like a be-nine thing till you realize they are telling you you fully punishable but not fully allowable , and better yet they can draft you send you off to war , trusting you with the defense of the country but beer is to much for you. they can have you carrying a side arm , driving a tank , and launching artillery but buying a pistol at 19 or 20 you can't be trusted with.

there was an article i read the other day "Marine with CCL save woman's life" , before i even read the article , I was thinking why should a Marine need a CCL , we should be at a point where A valid Military ID is your CCL , I know that the services have issues , but it is my opinion that if command doesn't feel your fit to carry a side arm on duty and off than you should be given a general discharge , and that if your not able to for a medical reason , then a medical discharge , and if your give a honorable discharge at the end of your service that should be your lifetime ccl unless revoked for some other reason.If the ranks arn't kept clean if a high standard of conduct isn't kept then problem will fester and tarnish the services 

the article went on to say the man was a retired Marine , but he did save the woman who's ex-boyfreind had been stalking her and was kicking her near to death on the sidewalk while she was on her way to work. the marine didn't know the woman , he just saw something that shouldn't be happening stopped his car and told the man to stop kicking the woman , when they man came at him he ordered him to stop then drew and held the man for police. Just good people helping others to make this a better place to live.


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## CesumPec (May 20, 2011)

wannabechef said:


> There is a huge difference between driving a car on a road within a school zone and walking into one with a gun.


not really. Thinking about where my daughter's last 2 schools are, I could easily walk within 1000 ft of those schools and not know they were there. At least on most public roads, the school zones are marked. But no such protection is offered to someone walking in the woods, or on private property, or non-public roads.


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## Anonymooose (Jul 13, 2012)

We shouldn't need CCL.

We have the 2nd amendment, not to mention our natural human right to self defense. We shouldn't have to ask permission to exercise a right that we supposedly already have. If the battle for our right to bear arms was lost anywhere along the line, THAT is where it was lost. 

Today's 2nd amendment hoopla is all theatrics. The line was crossed a long time ago, and no one had the balls to challenge it.

Angie, as a fellow female, I applaud you for having the guts to start the process, to become better armed and more knowledgeable.


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## GREENCOUNTYPETE (Jul 25, 2006)

Anonymooose said:


> *We shouldn't need CCL.*
> 
> We have the 2nd amendment, not to mention our natural human right to self defense. We shouldn't have to ask permission to exercise a right that we supposedly already have. If the battle for our right to bear arms was lost anywhere along the line, THAT is where it was lost.
> 
> ...


i agree but i can't afford to spend time in jail and court, and most likely loose , when the perfect storm of a case can be made it will be , so i play their game while advocating for constitutional carry.

we made huge steps in 2011 reclaiming much ground in transport law and carry law , here in Wis.

the next case that needs to be brought will be to challenge local or state police enforcing a federal school zone law , if they can't enforce federal immigration law , then they can't enforce any federal law , meaning a federal agent would need to make the stop or be present for the arrest and since fed's don't pull you over for speeding they would have to be alerted by locals. it will be interesting. if you take school zones out of it carry and transport is very much changed.


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## Anonymooose (Jul 13, 2012)

GREENCOUNTYPETE said:


> i agree but i can't afford to spend time in jail and court, and most likely loose , when the perfect storm of a case can be made it will be , so i play their game while advocating for constitutional carry.


I hear ya, I'm a mom with two young kids. We all have something to loose. But what is freedom from tyranny worth?


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## Farmerjonathan (Mar 11, 2013)

In Indiana it cost me I think $180.00 a few years back for a lifetime carry permit. It is not a concealed carry permit, I still won't open carry unless on my farm fishing so it is easier to pull and shoot not wanted critters. Even though I exercise my right to carry, seeing open carry in Walmart does give me the heebee jeebees.


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## GREENCOUNTYPETE (Jul 25, 2006)

Farmerjonathan said:


> seeing open carry in Walmart does give me the heebee jeebees.



take a deep breath , then recall does it give you the heebee jeebees to see the guy dropping off the change at the front of the store with the armored car company

does it give you the heebee jeeebees to see a deputy with a side arm 

*relax and tell yourself that if the person open carrying was anything but a law abiding citizen he/she would be hiding that gun*. 

now turn around and look for every one who isn't open carrying , chances are one of them is a criminal and likely is carrying a illegal gun.

when you realize just how easy it is to conceal and how little anyplace checks even if they prohibit carry , you should be much more freaked out about the ones you can't see.

I went to a hockey game at a big 10 school guns prohibited , wore my holster but left my gun secured not with me. they ask you to open your coat so they can check for weapons , well unless i was carrying right out front at 1 or 2 oclock in a OWB holster they weren't going to see anything they do this to make people feel better but it is all smoke and mirrors. It's just living the LIE that people like to tell themselves 

so stop lying to yourself.


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## Farmerjonathan (Mar 11, 2013)

Oh trust me, I am not lying to myself. I was in law enforcement for a few years. My main concern is two fold. 

1. Going back to the old west mentality of fighting it out with guns.

2. The availability of the gun to non gun people. The few I have seen, they were displaying for display purposes then acted like spoiled brats when confronted. Seriously, open carrying and you think you are not going to be questioned? 

No argument here. It is what it is.


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## WestWindFarm (Jan 11, 2013)

I do not see the need for a Lisence to CCW? 

what kind of job/lifestyle would one have to require a CCW. 

I understand having a gun in the house or a hunting rifle, but, why the CCW? 


Can some one explain the practicality behind that lisence?


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## GREENCOUNTYPETE (Jul 25, 2006)

WestWindFarm said:


> I do not see the need for a Lisence to CCW?
> 
> what kind of job/lifestyle would one have to require a CCW.
> 
> ...




Are you saying you understand why a person would want to conceal carry but do not think a state license should be needed , as in it's already given in the 2nd A

or that you just don't understand why a CCW would be needed at all , that you can't understand why a person would carry a gun daily unless they were a cop .


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## Danaus29 (Sep 12, 2005)

Farmerjonathan said:


> Even though I exercise my right to carry, seeing open carry in Walmart does give me the heebee jeebees.


You might want to stay out of Alaska then. On our visits we saw all kinds of people carrying openly. Of course, how many places do you know where people can get attacked by grizzlies in a park in a downtown area?


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## wannabechef (Nov 20, 2012)

Danaus29 said:


> You might want to stay out of Alaska then. On our visits we saw all kinds of people carrying openly. Of course, how many places do you know where people can get attacked by grizzlies in a park in a downtown area?


And stay out of GA, it's becoming more common here...doesn't bother me on bit...in fact I know the person carrying is not a felon...felons hide guns...because they are felons.


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## joebill (Mar 2, 2013)

New Mexico is open carry, concealed with permit, concealed within your truck or car, and nobody I know has a permit or worries about putting a jacket over the holster. This is the border country. Law enforcement has a lot more things to worry about than some citizen with a gun in his pocket. A citizen with a gun and a backhoe are considered to be minimumally equipped  ....Joe


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