# Danglers and Drags



## R&R Farm (Jun 12, 2008)

I'm wondering if any one has used either of these on your dogs. I am currently in the process of trying the danglers (put it on today). Just trying to slow Pearl down a little....Mike


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## Fowler (Jul 8, 2008)

My girlfriend uses them on her American Bulldogs for pulling events.

Why are you trying to slow down an LGD? or am I missing something?


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## Cheryl aka JM (Aug 7, 2007)

I've not used one~ but I am curious about how it works out. As I understand the idea is to slow the dog down so s/he can't catch whatever it is she chases (Chickens!) before you can get to her and make it clear you do not approve of the chasing.

Edit to ad~ and I'm not sure it would be the same thing you would use to teach a dog to pull. What I'm thinking of when the original poster says danglers is a peice of pcv pipe fastened to the dogs collar which hit the dog in the knees when she tries to get up a get speed run, and that snags up on fences if the younger smaller dogs try to crawl through them.


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## Fowler (Jul 8, 2008)

Oh!...thanks, this is new verbage to me.


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## R&R Farm (Jun 12, 2008)

Yeah, my dangler is a 10'' piece of wrist sized firewood chained to the collar with about 4-5'' of chain. Designed to make it hard to run full blast. Pearl is a great pup but I'd like her to approach me and the livestock a little more calmly. I got the idea from the book _Livestock Protection Dogs_ and was wondering if anyone here had any experiences (good or bad) with them....Mike


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## Fowler (Jul 8, 2008)

R&R Farm said:


> Yeah, my dangler is a 10'' piece of wrist sized firewood chained to the collar with about 4-5'' of chain. Designed to make it hard to run full blast. Pearl is a great pup but I'd like her to approach me and the livestock a little more calmly. I got the idea from the book _Livestock Protection Dogs_ and was wondering if anyone here had any experiences (good or bad) with them....Mike


Ummm...mine slowed down when the livestock learn to stop running.:shrug:


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## BarbadosSheep (Jun 27, 2011)

yeah that's the problem I have now. The livestock won't stop running. they are terrified of the dogs. It's going to take some time for them to not fear them. I don't want to use a drag, especially on a pup because it can cause shoulder damage.


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## Fowler (Jul 8, 2008)

Like this 










and this:











This is where they lived at 8 weeks old and until they were trusted.












This can only be accomplished with your help. They lived in a pen with the sheep when I was gone. I "ONLY" let out with my supervison. You can see the trust my sheep have, and that's because I spent the time and worked with them making sure they were corrected when they did something wrong. My boys were only 3-4 months old in the above 2 pics.


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## BarbadosSheep (Jun 27, 2011)

you are so lucky to have sheep that don't fear the dogs. I might start looking for a sheep that is currently with LGDs to work with these pups. The sheep don't just freak out a little bit....they panic and run FAST!!! Part of my problem is one of the breeds I chose are Barbados Blackbelly sheep. I might as well be raising whitetail deer! I am working on getting another pasture ready and I am going to move the barbados sheep out. I think the Katahdins will calm down about the dogs much faster with the Barbados sheep out. I already moved the wildest one out which helped a lot, but not enough.


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## Fowler (Jul 8, 2008)

Trust me they fear dogs, They ran as fast as they could away from them. 

I've heard that before about Barbado's. Like raising white tail deer...LOL

It took a least three months and working with them only 3-4 hours a night!!
I had to be there with them too. The sheep wanted nothing to do with them.
So the boys learned to just lay down and let the sheep come to them. I have a Southdown ewe that was given to me. I dont have the heart to get rid of her. But she was meaner then a bull slinging snot. She hated my boys and would go out of her way to try to run them over with me sitting right there!! I would always have to jump up and get onto her and make her back down. My boys were scared to death of this monster. I dont remember when or why but I got home one day after work and there was Ms. Bully sticking her nose threw the fence letting the boys lick and sniff her. She has trusted them ever since.

I also have a babydoll ewe that would always run away from them. Which made them chase, so off the bench I went too to correct them. As I remember the others learned quick that if they stayed still they wont chase me.."WOW what a concept"....LOL but Not zoey she would run and they would chase and I would run and get onto everybody....LOL

One day zoey just stopped running and so did the boys. Crazy huh? It was a lot of work and worth every second of it.

My family thought I was the crazy ecccckkk!!!! lady in the field, along with nothing else got done around the house or farm, but gosh darn it I can now sleep at night now....LOL


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## BarbadosSheep (Jun 27, 2011)

We might have had a breakthrough. Last night when I put the sheep up, I stood back and watched for a while. It was night time already but light enough from the moon. Two of the Katahdins went up to the puppy pen and sniffed noses with them. And this morning a couple of them (might have been the same ones) were checking out the pups as they ate their breakfast. So maybe they are beginning to come around. I may let one of the pups loose in the paddock (supervised, and after some good strong play time to wear them out a bit) this evening and see how it goes. 

One of the pups has the making of a good watch dog already too. Late last night I went out to catch a chicken that was roosting in the bad spot so I could move him. When I grabbed him, he squawked. One of the pups in the sheep paddock heard it and erupted in a very scary big-dog bark!! As soon as I reassured him it was only me, he quieted right up. I praised him big-time for his great guarding actions! I don't know which pup it was but it sure did sound great! I have not had a decent watch dog around here in a long time. If he sounds this scary at 4 months I can only imagine how scary he will sound as a mature dog!


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## Fowler (Jul 8, 2008)

BarbadosSheep said:


> We might have had a breakthrough. Last night when I put the sheep up, I stood back and watched for a while. It was night time already but light enough from the moon. *Two of the Katahdins went up to the puppy pen and sniffed noses with them.* :bouncy: And this morning a couple of them (might have been the same ones) were *checking out the pups as they ate their breakfast. * :goodjob: So maybe they are beginning to come around. I may let one of the pups loose in the paddock (supervised, and after some good strong play time to wear them out a bit) this evening and see how it goes.
> 
> *I never played with mine. I just let them play together. And wonder the paddock and gave them lots of chew toys and ataboys when they were good*
> 
> ...




:bouncy::goodjob::bouncy::goodjob:


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## ONG2 (Sep 22, 2010)

R&R Farm said:


> Yeah, my dangler is a 10'' piece of wrist sized firewood chained to the collar with about 4-5'' of chain. Designed to make it hard to run full blast. Pearl is a great pup but I'd like her to approach me and the livestock a little more calmly. I got the idea from the book _Livestock Protection Dogs_ and was wondering if anyone here had any experiences (good or bad) with them....Mike


I am about 1/2 way through that book, I really like it.


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## BarbadosSheep (Jun 27, 2011)

We have chickens walking all around here. The pup's pen is stock panels so chickens go in and out of there on a regular basis. The pups mostly leave them alone but sometimes do want to play with them. The chickens pretty much ignore the dogs too. 

These pups are going to be raised sort of differently than a lot of LGDs. They are also going to be show dogs so they need to be socialized well with me as well as others. I know this goes against many of the traditional methods of training LGDs but I do know it works beause I know lots of folks who have done it. These are smart dogs who are able to learn that their world and duties here are not the same as their duties when they leave the farm. Kind of makes thing a little more difficult in some ways, but it can work.


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## R&R Farm (Jun 12, 2008)

ONG2 said:


> I am about 1/2 way through that book, I really like it.


I liked it, too. It's been my LGD bible and I have read and re-read it. On another point, my pup doesn't chase my livestock. She just approaches more rapidly than I consider ideal. Had a lady tell me she would grow out of that and she is probably right. I just don't see where it could hurt to impress upon her the proper etiquette for a well-behaved Anatolian.


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## Cheryl aka JM (Aug 7, 2007)

I've got that book too, guess thats why I knew what you were talking about! I'd sure like to hear how it works for you. Pics of the drag too if you can. Thanks!


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## R&R Farm (Jun 12, 2008)

Well, Cheryl, it actually isn't working out for various reasons. It did make her slow down a good bit but my conditions here make it hard to work with. I have access holes in cattle panel fences so she can go from the chicken pen to the various goat pens. The dangler makes it next to impossible for her to maneuver between these pens. I have taken it off of her for now but plan on isolating her in the main pasture while giving it another try..... Mike


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## Cheryl aka JM (Aug 7, 2007)

interesting~ maybe wright up your experiences with this. The reason I've not tried is the tree's in the pasture I've currently got the livestock pup in~ she is with her mother and exp livestock dog and the chickens are also exp in the teaching of a livestock dog....so they pretty much stay out of the pen she is in. I've had to yell a few times, but not many. Mostly because the chicken avoid that pen. This being the first generation I've brought up with a second generation LGD I just don't know if this is a good thing or not. I think the only way to tell is give it time and see if the chickens begin feeling comfortable around and moving around the pup as they do her mother and uncle.


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## Maura (Jun 6, 2004)

If you are going to show them in conformation, you need to start training them to heel tightly with heads held high and to stack. Stack first. Clicker works well for this. You can kill two birds with one stone by working them on show skills while out with the sheep. The puppy can learn that he doesn't have to chase sheep but can pay attention to you, and the sheep can become more secure around the dogs (at least while you are there).


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## BarbadosSheep (Jun 27, 2011)

Thanks Maura. We are working on that now. I got them choker collars to slow them down when we are walking. Isaac is doing great, Eli still wants to pull off to the side but he's getting there too. Both are stacking pretty good. Not great, but a big improvement. Working on heel is a big priority for us now. I have not used clicker training in the past but since Anatolians are not real big on food motivation, clicker might be a good alternative to treats.


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## Maura (Jun 6, 2004)

Clicker isn't an alternative to treats. The click means "you will get a reward". The reward can be food (even using the dog's kibble ration as treats), petting, praise, or a release. I now train my dogs without a collar or leash to heel nicely. If you are using the clicker, then call the dog to your side and click/treat/praise when he gets to you. Then, use a treat to lure him to the spot you want and click/treat. Keep treating as long as he is walking where he should be. Treats stop when he moves out of the correct position. Again, you can use click and praise, click and ear rub. When he seems to be getting the picture, you can stop clicking and just treat/praise. Get out the clicker again to finish the work.

I lure my dogs into a sit at the heel before walking at the heel because I want a park when I stop (in ring they are supposed to sit when you stop, probably for the same reason), but if you are showing in conformation you want them instead to step right into the proper stack. A hungry dog will work for treats. Not to starve them, but work them with their kibble and some high level treats before putting down the dinner dish. I'll add that my border collie was a lot easier to train than a bloodhound/Lab client I had. I wish you luck.


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