# Hospital patient discharged dressed only in gown and socks



## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

This is shockingly disgusting, and heads should roll for it being allowed to happen.

"The man who said he came to the aid of a woman discharged from a Baltimore hospital wearing only a gown and socks on a cold winter's night, says he was left outraged and stunned at how she was treated.

Imamu Baraka, identified in local reports as the person who sought to help the woman, told The Associated Press he was so angry he decided to record Tuesday night's events on cellphone video, fearing no one would believe him if he reported a woman being left at a bus stop like that."

http://www.al.com/news/index.ssf/2018/01/man_who_aided_baltimore_hospit.html


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## Lisa in WA (Oct 11, 2004)

Poor thing. Unbelievable.


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## hunter63 (Jan 4, 2005)

That truly is sad and unexceptable ......I don't care who or where you are. 

There really is really no way... that I know it.....other that people's goodwill and good sense to see to it that you have acceptable attire for the weather.

Kinda a pet peeve of mine as some personnel experience enter into my opinion.

Heart attack....shirt and T-shirt pretty much cut up and destroyed....shorts and pants kinda got "sharded in" .....So all kinda trashed.

After emergence cath and angioplasty .....then was discharged the next day
Did have friend to call for a ride.....as my vehicle was 60 miles away (had spare clothes there), but the hospital did not have a way to "officially" provide clothing.

End ended up in a 5 year old left over T-shirt form a women's run scrub pants....and a blanket.

In the follow up survey they always send out,.... I mention this under comments and suggestions....NADA or feed back.


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## Jolly (Jan 8, 2004)

Bad way to do things, but I know of no hospital that provides "discharge clothing".

Seems to me that social services should have been called before putting her out on the street like that. 

Guess that's why they call it news...


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## catsboy (May 14, 2015)

That's Baltimore for ya! They probably had to open beds for gun shot victims.


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## Terri (May 10, 2002)

It's called "Patient abandonment" and they can get into SOOO much trouble.

And they should.


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## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

Terri said:


> It's called "Patient abandonment" and they can get into SOOO much trouble.
> 
> And they should.


My husband wondered about this as well, and said that he thought everyone involved would be terminated. I agree. 

Both Mr. Pixie and I donate clothes to his facility, some patients desperately need them.


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## hunter63 (Jan 4, 2005)

The whole thing just surprised and disappointed me.....
My experience just proves you can have a lot of bases covered with your preparations....but you can't think of everything.

There was a "go bag with a clothes change an hour away after an ambulance ride.

This women didn't seem to have ...anything.....What were they thinking?


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## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

hunter63 said:


> The whole thing just surprised and disappointed me.....
> My experience just proves you can have a lot of bases covered with your preparations....but you can't think of everything.
> 
> There was a "go bag with a clothes change an hour away after an ambulance ride.
> ...


She was incoherent and disoriented according to the article.


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## Oregon1986 (Apr 25, 2017)

Maybe the lady had dementia,not sure of her age


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## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

Oregon1986 said:


> Maybe the lady had dementia,not sure of her age


She could have, or any number of psychiatric conditions, she definitely wasn't stabilized.


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## Rob (Jan 4, 2018)

That's Baltimore for ya!


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## Wolf mom (Mar 8, 2005)

No one knows the back story, Yet all kinds of speculations and condemnations are running rampid.


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## TerriLynn (Oct 10, 2009)

A few years ago I had to go to the hospital with one of my kids in an ambulance, I had on dirty work clothes and ended up staying the night with him there.....the hospital staff was awesome, they found me a clean t-shirt (with the hospital logo on it) and an old pair of scrubs (bottoms) that I could wear to sleep in.

My son had his clothes cut off him and the provided a pair of pajamas for him to wear in the hospital, and let him keep them and wear them home.

I didn't watch the video..my husband watched it earlier today and told me about it......if I watch it I know I will be really upset.


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## Lisa in WA (Oct 11, 2004)

Wolf mom said:


> No one knows the back story, Yet all kinds of speculations and condemnations are running rampid.


Of course but I don’t know how taking an woman dressed in nothing more than a hospital gown outside and leaving her at a bus stop in sub freezing temps needs more explanation. It’s clearly wrong. Legally, morally, ethically, etc.


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## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

Lisa in WA said:


> Of course but I don’t know how taking an old woman dressed in nothing more than a hospital gown outside and leaving her at a bus stop in sub freezing temps needs more explanation. It’s clearly wrong. Legally, morally, ethically, etc.


There is no way that any back story could be acceptable, plus a spokesman for the hospital clearly said in the article there was an issue with her discharge in that manner.


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## no really (Aug 7, 2013)

Little more info.

A woman who says she’s the mother of a patient dumped on the street outside a Baltimore hospital in frigid weather this week says she was laughed at and stonewalled by hospital staff while trying to find out about the status of her daughter.

The mother, who spoke to CBS News and identified herself only as Cheryl, said her daughter, Rebecca, is “not deaf, not a prostitute, not a drug addict,” but suffers from bipolar disorder and Asperger’s syndrome. The woman was filmed moaning and pacing around outside the University of Maryland Medical Center Midtown Campus on Tuesday after being discharged by workers, in a video that has gone viral.


http://www.foxnews.com/us/2018/01/1...patients-mom-says-was-mocked-by-security.html


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## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

no really said:


> Little more info.
> 
> A woman who says she’s the mother of a patient dumped on the street outside a Baltimore hospital in frigid weather this week says she was laughed at and stonewalled by hospital staff while trying to find out about the status of her daughter.
> 
> ...


Just worse and worse, the treatment of the mentally ill in this country is just abysmal.


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## Lisa in WA (Oct 11, 2004)

we need more and better mental health facilities.


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## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

Lisa in WA said:


> we need more and better mental health facilities.


Absolutely, and much better treatment and followup.


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## TroyT (Jun 24, 2008)

Lisa in WA said:


> we need more and better mental health facilities.


True, unfortunately on one wants to pay more taxes, and the govt would rather spend money on "Fish Crossing" signs than do what the govt should really be doing.


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## Jolly (Jan 8, 2004)

Lisa in WA said:


> we need more and better mental health facilities.


1. What will you cut to fund them?

2.Will you agree to make it easier to PEC a patient?


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## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

Jolly said:


> 1. What will you cut to fund them?
> 
> 2.Will you agree to make it easier to PEC a patient?


PEC (Patient emergency certificate) pretty much automatic after the initial physician has indicated a mental illness. ETA: And I don't believe it's nationwide at that nomenclature, most people "in the know" refer to it as a 72 hour hold..


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## Jolly (Jan 8, 2004)

Irish Pixie said:


> PEC (Patient emergency certificate) is automatic after the initial physician has indicated a mental illness. ETA: And I don't believe it's nationwide at that nomenclature, most people "in the know" refer to it as a 72 hour hold..


I assume the law can vary, but the initial physician can invoke the PEC down here. What he can't do, is hold the patient past 72 hours, and most folks who deal with mental health patients, know that 72 hours is an inadequate amount of time to try to straighten a patient out. It's very common for the coroner to drop by (the coroner is the legal authority here that can commit you for 14 days) and sign the commitment papers very early in the 72 hour period.

Many people need more than 14 days. We simply do not have the beds or staff and it's a common problem across the country. Many people want to blame it all on reforms that took place during the Reagan Administration, but that ignores a lot of the push for mental health reform at the time, that brought so much reform it made much institutionalization impossible.

The rules and laws need to be revisited, concerning what we can do, can't do, and what level of care and support we wish to provide. And, as always when spending the public's money, how do we find a massive (and it's gonna be massive) addition to government spending?


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## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

Jolly said:


> I assume the law can vary, but the initial physician can invoke the PEC down here. What he can't do, is hold the patient past 72 hours, and most folks who deal with mental health patients, know that 72 hours is an inadequate amount of time to try to straighten a patient out. It's very common for the coroner to drop by (the coroner is the legal authority here that can commit you for 14 days) and sign the commitment papers very early in the 72 hour period.
> 
> Many people need more than 14 days. We simply do not have the beds or staff and it's a common problem across the country. Many people want to blame it all on reforms that took place during the Reagan Administration, but that ignores a lot of the push for mental health reform at the time, that brought so much reform it made much institutionalization impossible.
> 
> The rules and laws need to be revisited, concerning what we can do, can't do, and what level of care and support we wish to provide. And, as always when spending the public's money, how do we find a massive (and it's gonna be massive) addition to government spending?


They can be easily held past 72 hours with documentation, nationwide. LOL. 

My opinion, we should start taxing churches- it would be a great start to funding the mental health treatment so desperately needed in this country.


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## Jolly (Jan 8, 2004)

Irish Pixie said:


> They can be easily held past 72 hours with documentation, nationwide. LOL.
> 
> My opinion, we should start taxing churches- it would be a great start to funding the mental health treatment so desperately needed in this country.


What documentation, signed by who?


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## Terri (May 10, 2002)

Irish Pixie said:


> They can be easily held past 72 hours with documentation, nationwide. LOL.


I suspect the problem was lack of insurance.

You still cannot abandon a patient.


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## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

Jolly said:


> What documentation, signed by who?


Not playin', bro. You can play by yourself tho.


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## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

Terri said:


> I suspect the problem was lack of insurance.
> 
> You still cannot abandon a patient.


It probably was because of lack of insurance. They get transferred to state facilities if they don't have insurance in New York.


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## Jolly (Jan 8, 2004)

Irish Pixie said:


> Not playin', bro. You can play by yourself tho.


No, I told you what I know and I gave you specifics. You make a broad, sweeping statement, and back it up with nothing.

I'm not unfamiliar with the mental health system down here. I worked with the administrator of a 300 bed mental health hospital, because my crew did his lab work. Our facility housed a ward with 30 pysch beds and we were the hospital of choice for 8 parishes, when indigent patients were committed. My guys had to be trained to deal with these patients, because they can go Code White on you without warning, at times.

What I don't know, are specifics as they apply to all states, because laws are different in different states.


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## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

Jolly said:


> No, I told you what I know and I gave you specifics. You make a broad, sweeping statement, and back it up with nothing.
> 
> I'm not unfamiliar with the mental health system down here. I worked with the administrator of a 300 bed mental health hospital, because my crew did his lab work. Our facility housed a ward with 30 pysch beds and we were the hospital of choice for 8 parishes, when indigent patients were committed. My guys had to be trained to deal with these patients, because they can go Code White on you without warning, at times.
> 
> What I don't know, are specifics as they apply to all states, because laws are different in different states.


It's common knowledge for anyone that has had any dealings (at all) in the psychiatric field. It's simply not something that has to be asked, it's just a given that it's known. Kinda sad you asked it.


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## Jolly (Jan 8, 2004)

Irish Pixie said:


> It's common knowledge for anyone that has had any dealings (at all) in the psychiatric field. It's simply not something that has to be asked, it's just a given that it's known. Kinda sad you asked it.


What is your experience in the field?


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## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

Jolly said:


> What is your experience in the field?


It seems to be significantly larger than yours. LOL. Go play by yourself, I"m done.


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## Jolly (Jan 8, 2004)

Irish Pixie said:


> It seems to be significantly larger than yours. LOL. Go play by yourself, I"m done.


What is your experience?


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## hunter63 (Jan 4, 2005)

Y'all say what you want...didn't help that lady.


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## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

hunter63 said:


> Y'all say what you want...didn't help that lady.


No, it didn't, and that is an awful thing. You're right, hunter63, thank you for bringing me back to the real problem.


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## Texaspredatorhu (Sep 15, 2015)

Irish Pixie said:


> They can be easily held past 72 hours with documentation, nationwide. LOL.
> 
> My opinion, *we should start taxing churches*- it would be a great start to funding the mental health treatment so desperately needed in this country.


why? The black reverends don’t pay their taxes the way it is! But they break bread with the president(Obama).


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## haypoint (Oct 4, 2006)

No wonder health insurance rates keep going up! There is no way any hospital should be letting patients steal their gowns. The socks, heck, let her keep the socks.

Any time that I have been discharged from the hospital, they tell me I'm released. I pull my clothes out of the bag I put them in and I get dressed. The nurses at the nurses station would not be alarmed by a woman walking around in a hospital gown. Onto an elevator and if no one noticed her in the lobby, she's outside and on their own.

A week ago, school janitor, shoveling snow at school found body of 95 year old woman in nightgown and slippers. News report says family members stated she had been recently diagnosed with Alzheimer's. She lived alone.

A friend collects men's and women's clothing for the Veterans Hospital. I was surprised at how great the need for clothing.


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## Murby (May 24, 2016)

Just curious, this isn't something I know much about and its just a question... but what are they supposed to do with patients who have no clothes, no insurance, no home, etc?? 

Is there somewhere the hospital is supposed to take them and they didn't? Or what if this person has a home but no way to get home and they're far away? 

I've heard of patient dumping before.. what's the solution?


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## Jolly (Jan 8, 2004)

Murby said:


> Just curious, this isn't something I know much about and its just a question... but what are they supposed to do with patients who have no clothes, no insurance, no home, etc??
> 
> Is there somewhere the hospital is supposed to take them and they didn't? Or what if this person has a home but no way to get home and they're far away?
> 
> I've heard of patient dumping before.. what's the solution?


At the risk of offending some of our resident experts, I'll tell you what I know...We dealt with indigent patients, Because of that, we had a robust Social Services department.

Jimmy, God Bless him, headed up that department and was very good at coordinating resources between both government agencies and private charities. Maybe he could get a state van to drop a patient off or his office would sometimes issue a travel voucher which could be redeemed at one of the medical transportation services. Churches would usually provide clothing for people who had none. Medications were provided on a private/public partnership, where the private foundation helped buy the drugs, but we used government pharamacists to fill the meds. Homeless people were usually referred to shelters, but the really hard part was what happened when the shelters were full? 

Darndest thing I ever saw along those lines...We had a patient discharged after two weeks in the pysch ward. He had no place to go and Jimmy couldn't find someone to take him. Guy walked out of the hospital with his patient belongings bag, and stopped by a cop car idling by the front gate. We thought the guy just wanted to talk to the cop, when he suddenly kicked the bejesus out of the driver's side door. The cop came boiling out of the cruiser, threw the guy on the ground, cuffed him and then hauled him to jail...Darned if he didn't show back up in the ED, where we had him committed for another 14 days

Guy got his three hots and a cot for another two weeks.

As for what other places do, I couldn't tell you. I'm sure someone will chime in with a definitive word, though.


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## haypoint (Oct 4, 2006)

Jolly said:


> At the risk of offending some of our resident experts, I'll tell you what I know...We dealt with indigent patients, Because of that, we had a robust Social Services department.
> 
> Jimmy, God Bless him, headed up that department and was very good at coordinating resources between both government agencies and private charities. Maybe he could get a state van to drop a patient off or his office would sometimes issue a travel voucher which could be redeemed at one of the medical transportation services. Churches would usually provide clothing for people who had none. Medications were provided on a private/public partnership, where the private foundation helped buy the drugs, but we used government pharamacists to fill the meds. Homeless people were usually referred to shelters, but the really hard part was what happened when the shelters were full?
> 
> ...


What do you think happens to prisoners when released? Just put them on a Greyhound back to their home town. Just because they are fully dressed is no indication they are better prepared to rejoin society than a woman in a hospital gown.

Come to think of it, in my small town, there was a woman sitting in a tavern ordering drinks, wearing only a hospital gown. She was an awful alcoholic and simply walked out. Hospitals are not prisons. Hospitals are not Social Services.


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## MO_cows (Aug 14, 2010)

Regardless of all the other issues, there is no excuse for a hospital to send a patient out in the cold dressed so lightly. Exposure, hypothermia, frost bite, etc., they endangered her health. I bet if anyone took the time to ask around, they could have gotten at least a coat donated to her. A phone call to the Red Cross would have probably gotten her an outfit. Again, regardless of the big picture, this woman was not treated with basic human decency by the staff members who put her out.


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## Jolly (Jan 8, 2004)

MO_cows said:


> Regardless of all the other issues, there is no excuse for a hospital to send a patient out in the cold dressed so lightly. Exposure, hypothermia, frost bite, etc., they endangered her health. I bet if anyone took the time to ask around, they could have gotten at least a coat donated to her. A phone call to the Red Cross would have probably gotten her an outfit. Again, regardless of the big picture, this woman was not treated with basic human decency by the staff members who put her out.


I think all of us can agree this was bad and shouldn't have happened.


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## MO_cows (Aug 14, 2010)

"All of us" is a pretty tall order on this board!


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## wr (Aug 10, 2003)

Murby said:


> Just curious, this isn't something I know much about and its just a question... but what are they supposed to do with patients who have no clothes, no insurance, no home, etc??
> 
> Is there somewhere the hospital is supposed to take them and they didn't? Or what if this person has a home but no way to get home and they're far away?
> 
> I've heard of patient dumping before.. what's the solution?


I know nothing of patient dumping but our hospitals have outside programs that accept clothing donations to ensure that anyone discharged from hospital have clean clothes as well as seasonally suitable extras. 

The key focus of the program is street people, who's clothing often in such poor condition, it wouldn't survive laundering, those that arrive in sleepwear or patients who's clothing is destroyed during of treatment.


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## Evons hubby (Oct 3, 2005)

I would like to see those poor folks taken to a homeless shelter, fed, properly clothed and housed. Seems better tthan dumping them in nothing but a hospital gown on a street corner bus stop.


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## Tobster (Feb 24, 2009)

Perhaps something good will come from this event. The medical center is under the gun to explain what happens from the time patients are admitted until they are discharged. The process broke down for this woman, now public relations demands they identify the breakdown and fix it. 

The bureaucracy of a large medical center rolls along unchecked when there is an absence of the patients' family. The nurses who see a patient several times a day know if there are friends or relatives present and checking on the patient. If no one is involved on a personal level, an advocate for the patient could be assigned. This is often done on behalf of children, hospitals would be well served to employ the same approach.


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## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

Murby said:


> Just curious, this isn't something I know much about and its just a question... but what are they supposed to do with patients who have no clothes, no insurance, no home, etc??
> 
> Is there somewhere the hospital is supposed to take them and they didn't? Or what if this person has a home but no way to get home and they're far away?
> 
> I've heard of patient dumping before.. what's the solution?


There are set guidelines for discharging patients, especially patients with mental illness, it involves in-hospital and social workers. The woman was disoriented and incoherent, that in itself could disqualify her for discharge, patients need be stabilized to be released home. 

In all likelihood she was dumped because she didn't have insurance, if she were in NY she would have been transferred to a state facility. I imagine Maryland has similar facilities, so she was dumped because the hospital didn't want to deal with her any longer. I'll bet there are a many people without jobs over this, and those with licenses and certifications should lose them.


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## Jolly (Jan 8, 2004)

That is all fine and well, but what happens when there is no state-funded bed and no private facility will take her?


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## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

Jolly said:


> That is all fine and well, but what happens when there is no state-funded bed and no private facility will take her?


In New York, they'd keep her in a public hospital until a bed was found in a state facility. There are many state mental health facilities, so it's usually not an issue for more than a day or two until transport can be arranged.


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## Jolly (Jan 8, 2004)

Irish Pixie said:


> In New York, they'd keep her in a public hospital until a bed was found in a state facility. There are many state mental health facilities, so it's usually not an issue for more than a day or two until transport can be arranged.


We don't have a surplus of beds, especially for females. CLSH is the entry point for these type of patients, with 196 beds, and it is a fight to get a patient in there. They are supposed to clear for Jackson, which has over 400 beds on more than one campus...Sometimes, the patient has to be cleared directly to Jackson.

Jackson also houses some of the criminally insane and it's just a fun day when you walk down some of those wards.


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## Texaspredatorhu (Sep 15, 2015)

Irish Pixie said:


> In New York, they'd keep her in a public hospital until a bed was found in a state facility. There are many state mental health facilities, so it's usually not an issue for more than a day or two until transport can be arranged.


Yup, New York is a model of what mental health care should be! Keep sending in them tax dollars.


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## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

Jolly said:


> We don't have a surplus of beds, especially for females. CLSH is the entry point for these type of patients, with 196 beds, and it is a fight to get a patient in there. They are supposed to clear for Jackson, which has over 400 beds on more than one campus...Sometimes, the patient has to be cleared directly to Jackson.
> 
> Jackson also houses some of the criminally insane and it's just a fun day when you walk down some of those wards.


Mr. Pixie worked as a treatment assistant in a prison psych facility for almost 15 years, it's not fun.


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## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

Texaspredatorhu said:


> Yup, New York is a model of what mental health care should be! Keep sending in them tax dollars.


All people are important, New Yorkers understand that very simple concept.


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## Texaspredatorhu (Sep 15, 2015)

Irish Pixie said:


> All people are important, New Yorkers understand that very simple concept.


You can’t be serious! Rudest people out there are the most compassionate? That’s funny! We don’t need BS programs forced on us down here, we are more prone to take care of our own, it’s an uneducated, poor southern thing.


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## haypoint (Oct 4, 2006)

Three security staff wheel this woman out of the hospital. Psychotherapist films her. Hospital apologizes, vows to investigate. Video goes viral, millions pretend to have any idea what happened, express dismay.


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## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

Texaspredatorhu said:


> You can’t be serious! Rudest people out there are the most compassionate? That’s funny! We don’t need BS programs forced on us down here, we are more prone to take care of our own, it’s an uneducated, poor southern thing.


That wasn't very nice, most NYers are very personable, we just don't suffer fools well. 

New Yorkers take care of their own too, plus they send more income tax money to the federal government than is taken in as aid, thus helping people in the poor (mostly red and southern) states. All people are important, that's why our taxes are so high.


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## Texaspredatorhu (Sep 15, 2015)

Irish Pixie said:


> That wasn't very nice, most NYers are very personable, we just don't suffer fools well.
> 
> New Yorkers take care of their own too, plus they send more income tax money to the federal government than is taken in as aid, thus helping people in the poor (mostly red and southern) states. All people are important, that's why our taxes are so high.





Irish Pixie said:


> That wasn't very nice, most NYers are very personable, we just don't suffer fools well.
> 
> New Yorkers take care of their own too, plus they send more income tax money to the federal government than is taken in as aid, thus helping people in the poor (mostly red and southern) states. All people are important, that's why our taxes are so high.


And yet YOUR richer keep getting richer and your poor are getting poorer. I’ve been in New York, I didn’t meet any personable people. I guess us uneducated poor southerners are fools then, which is fine because we don’t like yanks either!


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## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

Texaspredatorhu said:


> And yet YOUR richer keep getting richer and your poor are getting poorer. I’ve been in New York, I didn’t meet any personable people. I guess us uneducated poor southerners are fools then, which is fine because we don’t like yanks either!


You win, and you're right.


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## Texaspredatorhu (Sep 15, 2015)

Irish Pixie said:


> You win, and you're right.


Bless your heart!


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## oneraddad (Jul 20, 2010)

Grouping New Yorkers is no different then grouping anybody else. There's (messed) up women, blacks, men, whites, Christians, republicans and democrates, etc.... There's idiots everywhere


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## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

Texaspredatorhu said:


> Bless your heart!


Thank you, I am blessed.


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## Michael W. Smith (Jun 2, 2002)

no really said:


> A woman who says she’s the mother of a patient dumped on the street outside a Baltimore hospital in frigid weather this week says she was laughed at and stonewalled by hospital staff while trying to find out about the status of her daughter.
> 
> The mother, who spoke to CBS News and identified herself only as Cheryl, said her daughter, Rebecca, is “not deaf, not a prostitute, not a drug addict,” but suffers from bipolar disorder and Asperger’s syndrome. The woman was filmed moaning and pacing around outside the University of Maryland Medical Center Midtown Campus on Tuesday after being discharged by workers . . . . .
> http://www.foxnews.com/us/2018/01/1...patients-mom-says-was-mocked-by-security.html


I'm sure there is more to this story. 
Do I dare ask where the family was when the daughter was taken outside and left at the bus stop?

Is the family involved in the daughter's care - or is she out on her own?
Is the daughter to be taking medication for the bipolar disorder? Is she or was she taking it?

I know many times people go off their meds - (because they don't "need" them anymore or are feeling "fine") - and there really isn't anything anybody can do about it.

I'm not saying it's something that should have happened. It certainly shouldn't have.

But was the family involved?


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## no really (Aug 7, 2013)

Michael W. Smith said:


> I'm sure there is more to this story.
> Do I dare ask where the family was when the daughter was taken outside and left at the bus stop?
> 
> Is the family involved in the daughter's care - or is she out on her own?
> ...


Article about the family's involvement.


http://www.foxnews.com/us/2018/01/1...patients-mom-says-was-mocked-by-security.html


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## haypoint (Oct 4, 2006)

Does anyone believe it is normal procedure for three security officers to wheel a woman, dressed only in socks and gown, to a bus stop and drop her off? Me either. Something "special" happened that lead to this incident. We will not hear the details.

Is it normal for the mental facility, Pathways, to kick out residents for medication non-compliance? Do they shoulder some blame in this? Parents of this 22 year old lose contact for a month and they don't get a share of the blame for this woman's plight?

Is this just one of thousands of cases that had society not forced the closure of mental institutions and forced medication compliance would not have happened. If personal freedom of the mentally ill supersedes forced professional care, these situations will continue.


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## coolrunnin (Aug 28, 2010)

haypoint said:


> Does anyone believe it is normal procedure for three security officers to wheel a woman, dressed only in socks and gown, to a bus stop and drop her off? Me either. Something "special" happened that lead to this incident. We will not hear the details.
> 
> Is it normal for the mental facility, Pathways, to kick out residents for medication non-compliance? Do they shoulder some blame in this? Parents of this 22 year old lose contact for a month and they don't get a share of the blame for this woman's plight?
> 
> Is this just one of thousands of cases that had society not forced the closure of mental institutions and forced medication compliance would not have happened. If personal freedom of the mentally ill supersedes forced professional care, these situations will continue.


It's apparently normal enough they had to pass a law. 

Yea I can believe anything about mans inhumanity to man.


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## haypoint (Oct 4, 2006)

coolrunnin said:


> It's apparently normal enough they had to pass a law.
> 
> Yea I can believe anything about mans inhumanity to man.


Your solution for treating medically non-compliant people?


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## coolrunnin (Aug 28, 2010)

haypoint said:


> Your solution for treating medically non-compliant people?


Turning them out in slippers and hospital gown ain't it.

I'm sure every state has a protocol that is supposed to be used in these cases, it might even work if it's used.

Are you suggesting that the methods used are the proper ones?


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## haypoint (Oct 4, 2006)

coolrunnin said:


> Turning them out in slippers and hospital gown ain't it.
> 
> I'm sure every state has a protocol that is supposed to be used in these cases, it might even work if it's used.
> 
> Are you suggesting that the methods used are the proper ones?


Not at all. Just far easier to complain. Out in the real world, pure solutions are rare. Everything is a compromise and there isn't a solution for everything. People want the mentally ill protected, off the street and receiving medication to control the sickness. But few want them locked up. So, they have free reign to wonder the streets, check into an ER, refuse treatment and get released. Do we authorize hospitals to force dress them? Is the hospital required to find them a place to sleep after release? It is a mish mash of personal rights, social assistances and zero accountability. I'm fine with State Hospitals for the mentally ill, with forced medication and working them as abilities allow to reduce costs. Sort of a step back 50 years. You good with that?


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## Evons hubby (Oct 3, 2005)

haypoint said:


> Not at all. Just far easier to complain. Out in the real world, pure solutions are rare. Everything is a compromise and there isn't a solution for everything. People want the mentally ill protected, off the street and receiving medication to control the sickness. But few want them locked up. So, they have free reign to wonder the streets, check into an ER, refuse treatment and get released. Do we authorize hospitals to force dress them? Is the hospital required to find them a place to sleep after release? It is a mish mash of personal rights, social assistances and zero accountability. I'm fine with State Hospitals for the mentally ill, with forced medication and working them as abilities allow to reduce costs. Sort of a step back 50 years. You good with that?


That was better than we have now. I'm thinking more along the lines of state run dorms and food kitchens being made available to all of our homeless. Folks need help, not being tossed out in the cold, hungry, poorly dressed and no way to improve their situation.


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## oneraddad (Jul 20, 2010)

Some of you think people with mental problems can live a functioning life if they just take their medicine, you couldn't be more wrong.


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## haypoint (Oct 4, 2006)

oneraddad said:


> Some of you think people with mental problems can live a functioning life if they just take their medicine, you couldn't be more wrong.


Many can and do. Medications were found to be so effective that it led to the closing of most mental institutions and the establishment of group homes.
However, we, as a society, never dealt with medical non-compliance.
In Detroit, Salvation Army operates "Bed and Bread" delivering 3000 meals daily and providing 300 beds in their shelter. Seems like those that get the meals are more lazy than hungry. Lots of boots, gloves and coat programs. But in last week's cold snap, 4 people froze to death.

At what point do we, as a society, pull people off the street, medicate, wash, clothe and keep safe, with out regard to their wishes? If we afford everyone their freedom, there will be tragedies and remedies will often times be costly.

We know little about what led up to three security officers wheeling this woman to a bus stop. We don't know if she refused to get dressed or if the hospital can forcibly dress her. We don't know what other options were available to the hospital. Does it take a court order to lock her up in a mental hospital? Should the hospital house her there until a court can determine her competency? Who pays for that. Can the hospital force her to stay?

I just see a lot of gray area between the woman's freedoms, the hospitals authority and the hospitals role in solving society's social troubles.

Maybe next time you are released from the hospital, refuse to get dressed and refuse to leave and you, too, may experience health care's "bum rush".


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## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

haypoint said:


> Your solution for treating medically non-compliant people?


A disoriented and incoherent patient, in most cases, can't be deemed non-compliant, there's an issue of competency.


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## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

oneraddad said:


> Some of you think people with mental problems can live a functioning life if they just take their medicine, you couldn't be more wrong.


You're right, state psychiatric facilities are full of people that can never function outside a controlled environment, even medicated. But there are many can live functioning lives with proper treatment and follow up care, a lot depends on the diagnosis and the person's willingness to follow treatment.


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## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

haypoint said:


> Does anyone believe it is normal procedure for three security officers to wheel a woman, dressed only in socks and gown, to a bus stop and drop her off? Me either. Something "special" happened that lead to this incident. We will not hear the details.
> 
> Is it normal for the mental facility, Pathways, to kick out residents for medication non-compliance? Do they shoulder some blame in this? Parents of this 22 year old lose contact for a month and they don't get a share of the blame for this woman's plight?
> 
> Is this just one of thousands of cases that had *society* not forced the closure of mental institutions and forced medication compliance would not have happened. If personal freedom of the mentally ill supersedes forced professional care, these situations will continue.


It wasn't society that started closing psychiatric centers in the 1980s.


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## haypoint (Oct 4, 2006)

Irish Pixie said:


> It wasn't society that started closing psychiatric centers in the 1980s.


Sure it was.
Society in general demanded the closing of mental hospitals and "mainstreaming" patients, often in group homes. Elected officials complied by turning off the funds that went to mental hospitals.
All this was possible due to the effectiveness of several new psychotropic drugs.


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## Evons hubby (Oct 3, 2005)

Society is "we the people", we the people are the ones responsible for those centers being closed down. We are also ultimately responsible for patients being dumped on the streets in hospital gowns.


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## haypoint (Oct 4, 2006)

Irish Pixie said:


> You're right, state psychiatric facilities are full of people that can never function outside a controlled environment, even medicated. But there are many can live functioning lives with proper treatment and follow up care, a lot depends on the diagnosis and the person's willingness to follow treatment.


The rub is when the diagnosis changes and medical compliance changes. Bi-polar disorders are the worst. Medication compliancy good while in depressive state, poor while in manic state.
Who gets to pick who gets locked in an institution and who gets placed in a group home and who can walk the streets at will? Who monitors this? Daily, weekly or monthly? Who pays for this monitoring? Do all mentally ill get a monitor? Who decides?


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## Evons hubby (Oct 3, 2005)

haypoint said:


> The rub is when the diagnosis changes and medical compliance changes. Bi-polar disorders are the worst. Medication compliancy good while in depressive state, poor while in manic state.
> Who gets to pick who gets locked in an institution and who gets placed in a group home and who can walk the streets at will? Who monitors this? Daily, weekly or monthly? Who pays for this monitoring? Do all mentally ill get a monitor? Who decides?


thats an easy one.
Nurse Ratchet!


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## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

haypoint said:


> Sure it was.
> Society in general demanded the closing of mental hospitals and "mainstreaming" patients, often in group homes. Elected officials complied by turning off the funds that went to mental hospitals.
> All this was possible due to the effectiveness of several new psychotropic drugs.


Nope, there was a huge push in the 70s to regulate psychiatric centers, and many desperately needed it, but the emptying part happened in California in the 80s. It "saved" so much money for state government, that it was implemented across the country very quickly. 

http://www.nytimes.com/1984/10/30/science/how-release-of-mental-patients-began.html?pagewanted=all


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## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

haypoint said:


> The rub is when the diagnosis changes and medical compliance changes. Bi-polar disorders are the worst. Medication compliancy good while in depressive state, poor while in manic state.
> Who gets to pick who gets locked in an institution and who gets placed in a group home and who can walk the streets at will? Who monitors this? Daily, weekly or monthly? Who pays for this monitoring? Do all mentally ill get a monitor? Who decides?


Psychiatrists, two of them initially to implement a 72 hour hold, after which there is a team of aides, nurses, doctors, social workers, etc. We've been through this ad nauseam. The cost should be born by society, the mentally ill are human beings and deserve proper treatment. 

Right now there is no follow up treatment for most of the mentally ill, unless there is excellent insurance involved and private psychiatrists. The key is better follow up treatment when the mentally ill are stabilized and released.


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## haypoint (Oct 4, 2006)

Irish Pixie said:


> A disoriented and incoherent patient, in most cases, can't be deemed non-compliant, there's an issue of competency.


OK, so who determines competency? Who initiates competency tests? Who pays for a competency test? What should a hospital do with a medically non-compliant disoriented person that is no longer a patient? What is the process to get a person committed? What is the process to forcibly medicate a disoriented person?
I think we can agree that a hospital cannot be expected to house mentally ill, after their health needs have been met and the person has been released. Perhaps we can agree there shouldn't be a policy to restrain former patients, inject them with psychotropic drugs, hold them down and dress them prior to release. You and I don't know what options or safety nets are available for the hospital and medically non-compliant citizens. You and I don't know this woman's mental state.


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## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

haypoint said:


> OK, so who determines competency? Who initiates competency tests? Who pays for a competency test? What should a hospital do with a medically non-compliant disoriented person that is no longer a patient? What is the process to get a person committed? What is the process to forcibly medicate a disoriented person?
> I think we can agree that a hospital cannot be expected to house mentally ill, after their health needs have been met and the person has been released. Perhaps we can agree there shouldn't be a policy to restrain former patients, inject them with psychotropic drugs, hold them down and dress them prior to release. You and I don't know what options or safety nets are available for the hospital and medically non-compliant citizens. You and I don't know this woman's mental state.


Read post #81

Are you really supporting a medical facility that left an incoherent disoriented person out in freezing weather in socks and a hospital gown? If so, there really isn't anything further to discuss.


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## haypoint (Oct 4, 2006)

Irish Pixie said:


> Psychiatrists, two of them initially to implement a 72 hour hold, after which there is a team of aides, nurses, doctors, social workers, etc. We've been through this ad nauseam. The cost should be born by society, the mentally ill are human beings and deserve proper treatment.
> 
> Right now there is no follow up treatment for most of the mentally ill, unless there is excellent insurance involved and private psychiatrists. The key is better follow up treatment when the mentally ill are stabilized and released.


OK, let's assume she was seen by a psychiatrist and at that time deemed medically non-compliant competent. Then what is the hospital to do with her? Force dress her? No hospital will adopt that liability. Labeled competent, yet unwilling to get dressed, unwilling to leave, the mental health folks saying they don't want her, because she's competent, while the group home kicked her out due to going off her meds.


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## Evons hubby (Oct 3, 2005)

haypoint said:


> OK, let's assume she was seen by a psychiatrist and at that time deemed medically non-compliant competent. Then what is the hospital to do with her? Force dress her? No hospital will adopt that liability. Labeled competent, yet unwilling to get dressed, unwilling to leave, the mental health folks saying they don't want her, because she's competent, while the group home kicked her out due to going off her meds.


Going off her meds kinda proves mental incompetence. So back to group home, with oversight to keep her on her meds. Beats dumping on the street.


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## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

haypoint said:


> OK, let's assume she was seen by a psychiatrist and at that time deemed medically non-compliant competent. Then what is the hospital to do with her? Force dress her? No hospital will adopt that liability. Labeled competent, yet unwilling to get dressed, unwilling to leave, the mental health folks saying they don't want her, because she's competent, while the group home kicked her out due to going off her meds.


Nope. The fact that she was found at a bus stop incoherent and disoriented immediately after being discharged proves she's incompetent. The hospital admitted liability when they said it shouldn't have happened, and I'll bet dollars to donuts that everyone involved is no longer employed at the University of Maryland Medical Center Midtown.


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## haypoint (Oct 4, 2006)

Yvonne's hubby said:


> Going off her meds kinda proves mental incompetence. So back to group home, with oversight to keep her on her meds. Beats dumping on the street.


Keep up. The group home doesn't house medically non-compliant residents. They kicked her out for not taking her meds.
If it were true, it isn't, that refusing to take your medication was proof of mental incompetency, does that equate to institutionalization? Who orders that? When should we start scooping up every vagrant and locking them up? Just where would we house them and how do we prevent their escape? Where does individual rights fit?


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## haypoint (Oct 4, 2006)

Irish Pixie said:


> Nope. The fact that she was found at a bus stop incoherent and disoriented immediately after being discharged proves she's incompetent. The hospital admitted liability when they said it shouldn't have happened, and I'll bet dollars to donuts that everyone involved is no longer employed at the University of Maryland Medical Center Midtown.


It just isn't that easy. How in the world are you able to ascertain, from a news story, the level of competence of this woman? Can you differentiate mental illness and acting out? 
What does the hospital do when the experts ay she is competent?
What would you expect the hospital to say? Out the psychiatrist? Tell the public, "Too bad, so sad."? Perhaps this event will shine light on the underfunded, full to capacity, safety net that allowed this to happen. But in reality, there is no "fix", short of locking up all mentally ill citizens.


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## Jolly (Jan 8, 2004)

Irish Pixie said:


> Psychiatrists, two of them initially to implement a 72 hour hold, after which there is a team of aides, nurses, doctors, social workers, etc. We've been through this ad nauseam. The cost should be born by society, the mentally ill are human beings and deserve proper treatment.
> 
> Right now there is no follow up treatment for most of the mentally ill, unless there is excellent insurance involved and private psychiatrists. The key is better follow up treatment when the mentally ill are stabilized and released.


Is that New York or national standard?


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## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

haypoint said:


> It just isn't that easy. How in the world are you able to ascertain, from a news story, the level of competence of this woman? Can you differentiate mental illness and acting out?
> What does the hospital do when the experts ay she is competent?
> What would you expect the hospital to say? Out the psychiatrist? Tell the public, "Too bad, so sad."? Perhaps this event will shine light on the underfunded, full to capacity, safety net that allowed this to happen. But in reality, there is no "fix", short of locking up all mentally ill citizens.


You win, all incoherent and disoriented people are in full control of all their facilities.


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## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

Jolly said:


> Is that New York or national standard?


Why don't you research it and find out? I wouldn't want to be referred to as a resident expert again.


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## Jolly (Jan 8, 2004)

Irish Pixie said:


> Why don't you research it and find out?


Lady, you made the assertion. I think that's not national standard. I just want you to show me that it's right.


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## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

Jolly said:


> Lady, you made the assertion. I think that's not national standard. I just want you to show me that it's right.


If you want to know do the research, I'm not playing word games with you today. 

Make your own sammich. LOL


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## haypoint (Oct 4, 2006)

I worked 7 years with mentally ill prisoners. We worked closely with the prison system's mental hospital. Yes, mentally ill people go to prison. One might say that most criminals suffer mental disorders of some sort.
Our goal was getting them prepared to leave the costly mental hospital housing and adapt to general population housing in prison.
Medical compliance was our requirement. I observed amazing returns to sanity brought on by medications. As with all illnesses and medications optimum dosages vary. Due to the brain's growing resistance to some medications, several prisoners, after a lifetime of medication were receiving doses well beyond anything the manufacturer had tested. For some, a single monthly injection brought sanity.
But, unlike a hospital, we could confine people. We could apply leather restraints, pinning them to a bed, controlling self harming behavior.
But even in this facility, forced injections was nearly unheard of, without the prisoner's authorization.
Many of these prisoners would be better served by a State Hospital. For some, release from prison was not in the person's best interest.


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## Jolly (Jan 8, 2004)

Irish Pixie said:


> If you want to know do the research, I'm not playing word games with you today.


I'm not playing word games. I asked a question you are unwilling to answer.


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## Jolly (Jan 8, 2004)

haypoint said:


> I worked 7 years with mentally ill prisoners. We worked closely with the prison system's mental hospital. Yes, mentally ill people go to prison. One might say that most criminals suffer mental disorders of some sort.
> Our goal was getting them prepared to leave the costly mental hospital housing and adapt to general population housing in prison.
> Medical compliance was our requirement. I observed amazing returns to sanity brought on by medications. As with all illnesses and medications optimum dosages vary. Due to the brain's growing resistance to some medications, several prisoners, after a lifetime of medication were receiving doses well beyond anything the manufacturer had tested. For some, a single monthly injection brought sanity.
> But, unlike a hospital, we could confine people. We could apply leather restraints, pinning them to a bed, controlling self harming behavior.
> ...


I'm kinda surprised Pixie didn't mention San Antonio. For those in the know, it's one of the brightest shining lights in mental health care...They do a really good job housing people that can still be productive members of society, while making them take their meds and trying to straighten them out. An article from the _Boston Globe_:

https://www.bostonglobe.com/metro/2...ional-model/08HLKSq1JdXSTZppaECk2K/story.html


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## haypoint (Oct 4, 2006)

Irish Pixie said:


> You win, all incoherent and disoriented people are in full control of all their facilities.


Not all. But can we agree that every person that seems incoherent isn't incompetent? Just as some people that seen coherent are not competent?
Fictional story. A 22 year old manic depressive woman that has spent much of her youth being evaluated, medicated and institutionalized. Once she aged out of the youth programs and beyond parental control, she lived in a group home that houses mentally ill people, with the requirement of medical compliance. Manic depressive people are notoriously medically non-compliant. Easy to assume she's been in and out of that place dozens of times over the past 4 years. We don't know why she was in the hospital. We don't know how many times she's been their patient.
Most manic depressives don't become incoherent, so she's got other issues.
Easy to assume, she knows the system and has learned to manipulate it. Let's take it another step, that she was evaluated by a professional and deemed to be competent, while manipulative. Imagine a conversation like this," There is nothing physically wrong with you. We cannot force you to take your meds. As long as you refuse your meds, the group home won't take you back. We will not dress you, you must do that. Take your meds, get dressed and we'll call the group home. Otherwise, there is no reason for you to be here, this is not a homeless shelter. This is not a free hotel. You were evaluated as competent, so you are trespassing and will be removed as a trespasser and escorted off this property. "


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## haypoint (Oct 4, 2006)

Jolly said:


> I'm kinda surprised Pixie didn't mention San Antonio. For those in the know, it's one of the brightest shining lights in mental health care...They do a really good job housing people that can still be productive members of society, while making them take their meds and trying to straighten them out. An article from the _Boston Globe_:
> 
> https://www.bostonglobe.com/metro/2...ional-model/08HLKSq1JdXSTZppaECk2K/story.html


My training in crisis intervention that led to training and certification as a hostage negotiator gave my a job and responsibility far different from most corrections officers. But after 7 years, budget cuts and cell shortages killed the program.
I grew up in a small city that had a state mental hospital on one side of the river, State Home For The Criminally Insane. across the river was a hundred year old prison that held 1200 violent young offenders, 17 to 23 years of age. I witnessed the closure and conversion of the hospital to prison. I have visited the massive Traverse City mental hospital, Coldwater mental hospital, Newberry mental hospital and Caro mental hospital. All closed or converted into prisons.


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## Evons hubby (Oct 3, 2005)

haypoint said:


> Not all. But can we agree that every person that seems incoherent isn't incompetent? Just as some people that seen coherent are not competent?
> Fictional story. A 22 year old manic depressive woman that has spent much of her youth being evaluated, medicated and institutionalized. Once she aged out of the youth programs and beyond parental control, she lived in a group home that houses mentally ill people, with the requirement of medical compliance. Manic depressive people are notoriously medically non-compliant. Easy to assume she's been in and out of that place dozens of times over the past 4 years. We don't know why she was in the hospital. We don't know how many times she's been their patient.
> Most manic depressives don't become incoherent, so she's got other issues.
> Easy to assume, she knows the system and has learned to manipulate it. Let's take it another step, that she was evaluated by a professional and deemed to be competent, while manipulative. Imagine a conversation like this," There is nothing physically wrong with you. We cannot force you to take your meds. As long as you refuse your meds, the group home won't take you back. We will not dress you, you must do that. Take your meds, get dressed and we'll call the group home. Otherwise, there is no reason for you to be here, this is not a homeless shelter. This is not a free hotel. You were evaluated as competent, so you are trespassing and will be removed as a trespasser and escorted off this property. "


Or, since we are writing fiction..... "You are trespassing, the nice policeman will now be transporting you to a nice warm jail where you will be safe and warm and fed properly until which time you can take care of yourself or returned to the safety of a group home."


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## haypoint (Oct 4, 2006)

Yvonne's hubby said:


> Or, since we are writing fiction..... "You are trespassing, the nice policeman will now be transporting you to a nice warm jail where you will be safe and warm and fed properly until which time you can take care of yourself or returned to the safety of a group home."


I don't know about their Cop's policy, but in Detroit you won't get a Cop to show up for a simple trespassing event. If the Prosecutor won't prosecute the release of crazy people for not leaving a hospital, nothing happens. Something about bigger fish to fry.


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## haypoint (Oct 4, 2006)

She was discharged from the Emergency Room with her clothes in a bag, a face mask, both wrists taped like you'd have for an IV and a cut on her forehead, with a three man security team.
""While there are many circumstances of this patient’s case that we cannot address publicly, in the end we clearly failed to fulfill our mission with this patient, no matter the circumstances of her case or the quality of the clinical care we provided in the hospital (which is not depicted in the video)," Medical System spokeswoman Kelly Swan said in a statement."
Due to HIPAA laws, the hospital cannot give the rest of the story.


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## Evons hubby (Oct 3, 2005)

haypoint said:


> I don't know about their Cop's policy, but in Detroit you won't get a Cop to show up for a simple trespassing event. If the Prosecutor won't prosecute the release of crazy people for not leaving a hospital, nothing happens. Something about bigger fish to fry.


We need to remember, this is a fictional story, one taking place in an imaginary place. In my imaginary place there is unlimited funds available, all cops are clones of Andy Taylor, and unicorns fart rainbows that smell like roses.


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## oneraddad (Jul 20, 2010)

Yvonne's hubby said:


> We need to remember, this is a fictional story, one taking place in an imaginary place. In my imaginary place there is unlimited funds available, all cops are clones of Andy Taylor, and unicorns fart rainbows that smell like roses.



Remember when you thought smoking cigarettes was not gonna hurt you ?

After that post I've had a hard time taking anything you post serious.


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## Evons hubby (Oct 3, 2005)

oneraddad said:


> Remember when you thought smoking cigarettes was not gonna hurt you ?
> 
> After that post I've had a hard time taking anything you post serious.


Nope. I don't recall a time that I ever thought smoking wouldn't hurt you. Not since I was a very small lad at any rate. I do recall having discussions about how second hand smoke is highly over rated as to being hazardous due to faulty logic being applied to the numbers derived from one of the major studies done. You might be thinking about that.


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## oneraddad (Jul 20, 2010)

Well you did, it was when I told you and Laurazone5 that you should stop.


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## Evons hubby (Oct 3, 2005)

You are aware that I was a cancer survivor prior to ever making my first post on HT right? I have argued the numbers related to second hand smoke, but never the fact that smoking is hazardous to the individual smoker. I've also argued that adults should have the right to make our own choices. That falls under that whole freedom thing. I highly doubt that I have ever said smoking isn't hazardous to the smoker. That's just not me, not now, not ever.


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## haypoint (Oct 4, 2006)

Strange that this topic has drifted to a poster being accused of smoking tobacco by one of HT biggest proponents of smoking dope.


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## oneraddad (Jul 20, 2010)

haypoint said:


> Strange that this topic has drifted to a poster being accused of smoking tobacco by one of HT biggest proponents of smoking dope.



I don't smoke, haven't in many years. You must have me confused with someone else.


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## Evons hubby (Oct 3, 2005)

haypoint said:


> Strange that this topic has drifted to a poster being accused of smoking tobacco by one of HT biggest proponents of smoking dope.


Odd isn't it, I used to get the same lecture from several of my best buds too. Not so much these days, they are all dead.


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## haypoint (Oct 4, 2006)

oneraddad said:


> I don't smoke, haven't in many years. You must have me confused with someone else.


"I toss the leaves in the compost pile because they have no value."

"Vaping is akin to aroma therapy where you inhale steam and not smoke, it's the best way I believe to use marijuana ..."

"All the states out West let you grow your own."
Do you remember writing this a couple weeks ago?
Along with a photo of a lush garden of pot and another feeding leaves to pigs. But it makes no difference to me, just odd to drift this thread to someone's smoking.


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## Jolly (Jan 8, 2004)

The hospital:
http://www.ummidtown.org/

The Quality Report:
https://www.qualitycheck.org/qualit...versity of maryland medical center&bsnid=6254

Handbook:
http://www.ummidtown.org/-/media/sy...hash=88E691ED05374F287D0C2C998C74F381C48462D8

Government ratings:
https://www.medicare.gov/hospitalco...OF MD MEDICAL CENTER MIDTOWN CAMPUS&Distn=1.0

What I'm seeing is a Joint Commission accredited hospital, which has some patient problems (most likely due to dealing with inner city, indigent patients and a large workload), but most of the government-measured quality makers aren't that bad. Not wonderful, but I've seen worse.

Yes, there is more to this story than we currently know.


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## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

haypoint said:


> "I toss the leaves in the compost pile because they have no value."
> 
> "Vaping is akin to aroma therapy where you inhale steam and not smoke, it's the best way I believe to use marijuana ..."
> 
> ...


Vaping is not smoking.


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## oneraddad (Jul 20, 2010)

haypoint said:


> "I toss the leaves in the compost pile because they have no value."
> 
> "Vaping is akin to aroma therapy where you inhale steam and not smoke, it's the best way I believe to use marijuana ..."
> 
> ...


Yes, I remember. I grow marijuana and turn it into a wax and vape it in a pen. The wax is turned into steam, nothing is burned so there's no smoke. Just like the vic's and water boiling on your stove when you're congested.

*vaporize*

[vey-puh-rahyz]

Examples
Word Origin
See more synonyms on Thesaurus.com
verb (used with object), vaporized,vaporizing.
1.
to cause to change into vapor.
verb (used without object), vaporized,vaporizing.
2.
to become converted into vapor.
3.
to indulge in boastful talk; speak braggingly.


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## Terri (May 10, 2002)

Irish Pixie said:


> Nope, there was a huge push in the 70s to regulate psychiatric centers, and many desperately needed it, but the emptying part happened in California in the 80s. It "saved" so much money for state government, that it was implemented across the country very quickly.
> 
> http://www.nytimes.com/1984/10/30/science/how-release-of-mental-patients-began.html?pagewanted=all


as I recall, there were scandals about warehousing patients and not letting them out, because it meant more state money. There was a push to STOP this.

And, yes, the money was cut off, and often with poor results as the patients often had trouble making the transition.


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## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

Follow up: "Now a federal regulator is launching an investigation into how the University of Maryland Medical Center Midtown Campus could have apparently disposed of a patient like so much garbage, NPR reports." "While it is unclear what penalties or charges the investigation might lead to, NPR did note that the Centers for Medicare and Medicaid Services authorized the investigation after hearing about the incident through the viral media coverage."

From: https://www.theroot.com/federal-inv...source=theroot_facebook&utm_medium=socialflow


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## Jolly (Jan 8, 2004)

Irish Pixie said:


> Follow up: "Now a federal regulator is launching an investigation into how the University of Maryland Medical Center Midtown Campus could have apparently disposed of a patient like so much garbage, NPR reports." "While it is unclear what penalties or charges the investigation might lead to, NPR did note that the Centers for Medicare and Medicaid Services authorized the investigation after hearing about the incident through the viral media coverage."
> 
> From: https://www.theroot.com/federal-inv...source=theroot_facebook&utm_medium=socialflow


Not nearly as big a deal as the link makes it out to be. Anytime a formal complaint is made through CMS, the complaint is investigated. Sometimes offsite, sometimes onsite. Watch for the eventual findings...


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## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

Jolly said:


> Not nearly as big a deal as the link makes it out to be. Anytime a formal complaint is made through CMS, the complaint is investigated. Sometimes offsite, sometimes onsite. Watch for the eventual findings...


We'll see what happens in Maryland, if they bounced her and charged medicaid or medicare it will get ugly. If they bounced her when she wasn't stable it will get ugly and there will be an even bigger civil suit. 

I can't make a determination on the size of the deal at this time.


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## Jolly (Jan 8, 2004)

Irish Pixie said:


> We'll see what happens in Maryland, if they bounced her and charged medicaid or medicare it will get ugly. If they bounced her when she wasn't stable it will get ugly and there will be an even bigger civil suit.
> 
> I can't make a determination on the size of the deal at this time.


Nobody can. Which is why the CMS findings will be important.


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## hunter63 (Jan 4, 2005)

I isn't just there.....Homeless man jumped across the street for hospital
https://www.tmj4.com/news/local-new...tion-after-homeless-man-left-outside-hospital


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## Wolf mom (Mar 8, 2005)

What do you do when a patient goes AMA (against medical advice) or refuses treatment??? Is that part of patient rights??


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## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

hunter63 said:


> I isn't just there.....Homeless man jumped across the street for hospital
> https://www.tmj4.com/news/local-new...tion-after-homeless-man-left-outside-hospital


I don't think this is an uncommon occurrence, unfortunately.


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## IndyDave (Jul 17, 2017)

Jolly said:


> Is that New York or national standard?


The last time this discussion came up, I did some research and while it is not a national standard per se, the standards in most states are similar with the standard in NY to such an extent that a de facto nationwide standard appears to exist with some details varying.


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## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

IndyDave said:


> The last time this discussion came up, I did some research and while it is not a national standard per se, the standards in most states are similar with the standard in NY to such an extent that a de facto nationwide standard appears to exist with some details varying.


Thank you for posting what you found.


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