# Another pathetic CL ad...I just couldn't resist posting



## KareninPA (Jan 7, 2010)

http://twintiers.craigslist.org/grd/4401886492.html

Blehhh!


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## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

Both of them would make fair to middlin' geldings. :flame:


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## Annsni (Oct 27, 2006)

I always make sure that I post a photo of my horse with mud up his legs to show off his great conformation as a stud.

Unbelievable.


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## DamnearaFarm (Sep 27, 2007)

Ew. Just....ew.


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## MDKatie (Dec 13, 2010)

"Royal Prints Charmin is black and white". Really?! :frypan: 

And is his lead tied to his pastern, or is he just stepping on it? And where the heck is it attached to his halter?


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## ponycountry (Jan 9, 2014)

Can someone please explain to me the rationale behind bringing ads from CL to forums and then criticizing them? I must be missing the point as I see it done a lot.


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## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

ponycountry said:


> Can someone please explain to me the rationale behind bringing ads from CL to forums and then criticizing them? I must be missing the point as I see it done a lot.


To point out how truly awful the ad or the horse is.


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## GrannieD (Sep 13, 2003)

I'm with Pony country in this regard..!!! When I was giving horsemanship lessons on $400 "no good " horses with a $150 hunt saddle my students often beat the big boys toys...Superior attitudes hurt the system that gives folks with a love for the horse a chance to take part..I've watched people choose high priced horses for the children & want to "kill" the judge because their darling didn't place..Please realize that introduction to the horse mkt. is most often a solid citizen backyard horse..The solid lesson horses are not the so called cream of the horse world..So they put up poor pics to advertise their horses..it may hurt only themselves...Its obvious that they could present them better.. I could share some really despicable things the folks with good pics have done in the mkt.place.. GrannieD


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## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

GrannieD said:


> I'm with Pony country in this regard..!!! When I was giving horsemanship lessons on $400 "no good " horses with a $150 hunt saddle my students often beat the big boys toys...Superior attitudes hurt the system that gives folks with a love for the horse a chance to take part..I've watched people choose high priced horses for the children & want to "kill" the judge because their darling didn't place..Please realize that introduction to the horse mkt. is most often a solid citizen backyard horse..The solid lesson horses are not the so called cream of the horse world..So they put up poor pics to advertise their horses..it may hurt only themselves...Its obvious that they could present them better.. I could share some really despicable things the folks with good pics have done in the mkt.place.. GrannieD


What does your post have to do with two standing stallions that should have been separated from their dangly bits years ago?


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## RideBarefoot (Jun 29, 2008)

The point that is being made is that horses for sale, at any level, should be clean and well presented. It doesn't take that much effort.


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## ponycountry (Jan 9, 2014)

Thanks GrannieD, sounds like you and I both have seen much of the same over our lives and been there and done that


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## wr (Aug 10, 2003)

GrannieD said:


> I'm with Pony country in this regard..!!! When I was giving horsemanship lessons on $400 "no good " horses with a $150 hunt saddle my students often beat the big boys toys...Superior attitudes hurt the system that gives folks with a love for the horse a chance to take part..I've watched people choose high priced horses for the children & want to "kill" the judge because their darling didn't place..Please realize that introduction to the horse mkt. is most often a solid citizen backyard horse..The solid lesson horses are not the so called cream of the horse world..So they put up poor pics to advertise their horses..it may hurt only themselves...Its obvious that they could present them better.. I could share some really despicable things the folks with good pics have done in the mkt.place.. GrannieD



I've ridden quite a few unattractive horses through the years and a couple were downright homely, some were superstars but as awesome as they were, they were never bred nor should they have been. I might be mistaken but when one is offering a stallion for servicing mares, he is will be subject to scrutiny and should at least meet breed standards. 

I may not be the sharpest knife in the drawer but I can't think of many stallions with poor confirmation that produced good quality foals and with a market saturated with poor to middling quality foals, the prospects for another aren't overly promising.


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## ponycountry (Jan 9, 2014)

WR what you say is true in a real sense. In an ideal world we would breed the best and geld the rest  But what is best to one person is not to another. 

I got my first stallion when I was 17, a little grey Arabian son of Bay Abi (National Champion who was noted for his good disposition and for producing using horses as well as show horses) he was the BEST horse I ever owned as far as a riding horse, there wasn't anything I couldn't do with him.. He was 6 when I bought him and had been used at stud, had a couple of foals. I bred him to a handful of mares during the years I owned him. His foals were noted for the same disposition and capability and the owners loved them. When I sold him he was gelded as he should have been in the first place based on not being top show quality and later did double duty as his owners Tevis cup mount and the owners daughters 4-H horse. Should I have been ridiculed for keeping him a stallion and breeding him? By the logic of this post I guess so, but he was correct conformation which is why he could hold up to the miles of riding I did and then later as a Tevis cup horse into his later teens, he just wasn't a breed show quality horse. I believe a lot of people buy into if it isn't breed show quality it isn't good...but the top show horses of today in a lot of breeds are worthless to do something other than show and how many horses in any breed are seen showing in their later years without a lot of drug interaction to keep them sound? A few but they are more the rarity than the rule.

Drive up thru Wyoming, Montana and the Dakotas and see the ranch bred horses, they are pretty rough looking but they get the job done that needs to be done, should they not be bred because they are not "ideal show type"? I've seen sale pictures of some of those horses and they were the same kind of photos in that cL ad, horses out in the fields. But the buyers know they can get a horse that they can use and will stand up to the work they want to do. A barn full of picture perfect World Champions breeding 100's of mares a year producing horses who if they can't show and aren't going to be used for breeding are difficult to find homes for because they may be unsound for any real work and don't have the disposition to be a family horse, is that a better idea of being a responsible breeder? Or because they present glossy professional photos and big ads and have grooms who take care of the horses daily and can brag about the wins of some of the offspring they are what we should be breeding? 

I personally have a breeding program here, I don't go with the fads and I choose based on my idea of what the standard is and what I have learned over 50 years of horse ownership. I have bred a few National winning horses and bought a few and I want a pretty horse but I also want a sound one. I know that photos don't tell the true story as I have pro photos of my one stallion which are actually better than he is in real life and one of my best mares can't take a pro photo worth a darn, she is much better in person. If I am buying I would rather see the rough pasture shot than a posed pro shot anyways as I will probably get a better idea of the true horse.

There are lots of horses out there unwanted. Many are poorly bred but many are also from show breeding farms but due to breeding for the win these horses have no other place to go if they can't achieve that. So to point fingers at a couple of horses who may contribute 25-30 offspring in their lifetimes as pathetic when another horse who is a show horse can contribute 100 offspring a year which more than half won't be able to win in the ring so are culls and then must be dumped into an already overloaded horse market...which is really more pathetic?

So guess now I will step off my soap box LOL.


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## Stonybrook (Sep 22, 2007)

I don't think the criticism is as much about the horse as it is the owners who won't take the time to clean their horse up a little bit and present it as best they can. To me that translates, probably, into their care for the horse in the first place. I think it also puts the horse at risk for finding a lower quality home.


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## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

I don't think anyone even suggested that all horses be show quality, not to mention that "show quality" is highly subjective. I may have missed it tho- can you point it out, ponycountry? 

My opinion (for what it's worth) is that any animal that is considered for breeding should have excellent conformation, temperament, and movement. The old adage, "Breed the best to the best and pray for the best" is apt. 

Does anyone honestly feel that either stallion in this CL ad should be bred? Like I said before my opinion is that they should have lost their dangly bits as yearlings. There is nothing about either stallion that makes him breeding quality, and from the ad neither has been proven under saddle. 

Is my post nice enough for those gentle souls among us? :thumb:

ETA: Here's a different CL ad for the same stallions. It has a better conformation pic of the dun stallion. 

http://twintiers.craigslist.org/grd/4333643184.html

Again, would you breed to either of these stallions? I wouldn't.


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## Molly Mckee (Jul 8, 2006)

Even if these were wonder horses, would you take a mare to be bred at a place where they can't be bothered to clean up their stallions for publicity pictures? I sure wouldn't.


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## Molly Mckee (Jul 8, 2006)

I think we have to face the fact that there are simply to many horses around for the available homes. Fewer people have the money, or time to support horses. The very good horses need to be bred to the best, and the rest not bred, mares and stallions, both. There is no reason why a horse can't have good confirmation, brains, and be useful. 
Breeding a low quality mare to the local low quality stallion because he is there and you are going to "save money" or "make money" on the resulting foal is not good for the the market, the horse or the owners.


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## wr (Aug 10, 2003)

I don't really care about show quality horses and they generally don't make good ranch horses but that doesn't mean I'm going to go buy a horse with poor conformation because it's going to break down in a few years. 

My broodmares were all finished, working horses and I never once bred them to a stallion that wasn't also proven working stock.

Ultimately withe the horse market so soft, there is a need for more geldings and less poorly confirmed, stallions. If someone can't take the time to clean a stallion up and present him, what would lead me to believe he has been properly cared for in any way? 

As for who picks good or bad, what's wrong with sticking to breed standards? They tend to be pretty reasonable.


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## KareninPA (Jan 7, 2010)

My main reason for posting the link to this ad was to criticize the lack of effort put in to the presentation. I don't understand why you wouldn't tidy them up a bit and have someone hold and position them to show their 'best side', if they have one.


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## haypoint (Oct 4, 2006)

Come to think of it, internet sales with photos is fairly new. Some just don't get it.

While not a horse photo, this person doesn't seem to have a clue about selling http://grandrapids.craigslist.org/grd/4408535487.html

Why not wait until the snow melts?


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## Molly Mckee (Jul 8, 2006)

"I got my first stallion when I was 17, a little grey Arabian son of Bay Abi (National Champion who was noted for his good disposition and for producing using horses as well as show horses) he was the BEST horse I ever owned as far as a riding horse, there wasn't anything I couldn't do with him.. He was 6 when I bought him and had been used at stud, had a couple of foals. I bred him to a handful of mares during the years I owned him. His foals were noted for the same disposition and capability and the owners loved them. When I sold him he was gelded as he should have been in the first place based on not being top show quality and later did double duty as his owners Tevis cup mount and the owners daughters 4-H horse. Should I have been ridiculed for keeping him a stallion and breeding him? By the logic of this post I guess so, but he was correct conformation which is why he could hold up to the miles of riding I did and then later as a Tevis cup horse into his later teens, he just wasn't a breed show quality horse. "

Ponycountry, I don't get your point. I knew the Varians and I know that Bay Abi was only bred to approved mares, and Sheila Varian was very picky. So never having seen your horse, I can say that his dam was a nice mare, pedigree wise , conformation wise, and had a good disposition or he would not have happened. He was not just the local stallion bred to a nearby mare. Not that that would mean he should have been left a stallion if he wasn't exceptional.

I will bet that there are no pictures of Bay Abi, or any Varian horses looking like the horses in the Craigslist pictures. I guess the up side is that if you have good pictures of a clean horse and put him on Craigslist he should really stand out.


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## ponycountry (Jan 9, 2014)

I appreciate the comments and my point was simply to show that while pointing fingers at a situation where someone obviously is not a professional horseperson nor photographer and saying it is pathetic is kind of harsh. I believe in breeding quality animals, but when young didn't have a clue when I stood my stallion either so I can appreciate there are people out there much like my early days...unknowledgable and inexperienced. Is it good? NO, but no need to be cruel. Which is why I pointed out the flip side of the horse world. if someone ran a CL ad with a professionally photographed horse that was show groomed would we have had this same thread? In that photo you might not be able to see those bad knees, or that he wants to take the trainers head off the first chance he gets. Yet that horse will contribute more to the over population of unwanted horses, because he is standing at the big name farm breeding considerably more mares and a good percentage of the offspring will never be of any use due to soundness or temperament issues. No, Molly, I am not talking about Sheila, she is a TRUE horsewoman who has always bred for beauty, soundness and brains unfortunately not all have her dedication and love for their respective breeds. Anyways I didn't mean to stir up trouble but I think that after reading some of your comments we actually all can learn from them and we all agree we want what is best for horses, so the thread is a benefit


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## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

ponycountry said:


> I appreciate the comments and my point was simply to show that while pointing fingers at a situation where someone obviously is not a professional horseperson nor photographer and saying it is pathetic is kind of harsh. I believe in breeding quality animals, but when young didn't have a clue when I stood my stallion either so I can appreciate there are people out there much like my early days...unknowledgable and inexperienced. Is it good? NO, but no need to be cruel. Which is why I pointed out the flip side of the horse world. if someone ran a CL ad with a professionally photographed horse that was show groomed would we have had this same thread? In that photo you might not be able to see those bad knees, or that he wants to take the trainers head off the first chance he gets. Yet that horse will contribute more to the over population of unwanted horses, because he is standing at the big name farm breeding considerably more mares and a good percentage of the offspring will never be of any use due to soundness or temperament issues. No, Molly, I am not talking about Sheila, she is a TRUE horsewoman who has always bred for beauty, soundness and brains unfortunately not all have her dedication and love for their respective breeds. Anyways I didn't mean to stir up trouble but I think that after reading some of your comments we actually all can learn from them and we all agree we want what is best for horses, so the thread is a benefit


In my case you're absolutely wrong, if the stallion in question was cleaned up with a professional photograph but had poor conformation I'd critique him the same as I do with any poor quality stallion.

My guess is that 90+% of standing stallions aren't breeding quality and should be gelded. If I were Queen of all things, they would be. :grin:

When someone puts a stallion on the market for breeding they are asking for him to be critiqued.


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## haypoint (Oct 4, 2006)

There have been a few CL threads. Several things come to mind. It is impossible to adequately judge any horse by a photo, good or bad. It is very difficult to judge the gait of a horse by a video clip. We all know there are many low or average quality stallions. With the horse economy, some stallions are kept intact purely due to the cost of surgery.
But what stands out in my mind is how poorly prepared people are in presenting their horse on CL. I ask myself, "How could anyone believe that this description and that photo would stimulate anyone to buy that horse?" 
Once the description and photo drops so far below enticing that it becomes ridiculous, it is open to ridicule. From that, peer pressure might stimulate others to improve the quality of pictures and, hopefully, see how important it is to bring their horse from a pasture ornament to a universally useful horse, if they ever hope to sell their horse.
Posting photos instantly viewable to a large audience is a new thing. Being able to take instantly viewable, and easily cropped, photos is new and apparently not fully understood.
I don't know why it seems worse in Horse pictures, but there are other CL ads that make me shake my head (see CL ad mentioned on post #20 in this thread). Internet discussion forums like HT, afford everyone a place to anonymously criticize. Some see it as cruel, others see it as an educational opportunity. I see it as funny.


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## Lisa in WA (Oct 11, 2004)

Irish Pixie said:


> In my case you're absolutely wrong, if the stallion in question was cleaned up with a professional photograph but had poor conformation I'd critique him the same as I do with any poor quality stallion.
> 
> My guess is that 90+% of standing stallions aren't breeding quality and should be gelded. If I were Queen of all things, they would be. :grin:
> 
> When someone puts a stallion on the market for breeding they are asking for him to be critiqued.


Oh boy...Ponycountry sure hasn't been around here long!:catfight:


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## mrs whodunit (Feb 3, 2012)

Many people just don't take pride in their stuff and it shows in pictures like these.


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## Annsni (Oct 27, 2006)

If I were to post an ad for a car, I'd make sure that car looked the best it could. If I were to post an ad for a piece of furniture, I'd post a picture that made the item look as best as it could. Honestly, I'd not breed to a stallion who is owned by someone who can't even take the 3 minutes to hose off mud from the legs. But then again, any reputable breeder wouldn't advertise on CL, IMO.


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## Stonybrook (Sep 22, 2007)

I think Ponycountry's point was that the poster is probably uneducated and just doesn't know better. He (or she) may be right about that. It defies common sense that you would not clean up the horse, but not everyone has been taught better or has common sense. I guess that is the point of most of the others on the thread.


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## haypoint (Oct 4, 2006)

CL horse ads are to horses what People of Wal Mart are to humans. So bad it is laughable. Serious reflection is needed if you find yourself wondering, " Could this be me?' In that way, this discussion is educational while being humorous.


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## Lisa in WA (Oct 11, 2004)

Stonybrook said:


> I think Ponycountry's point was that the poster is probably uneducated and just doesn't know better. He (or she) may be right about that. It defies common sense that you would not clean up the horse, but not everyone has been taught better or has common sense. I guess that is the point of most of the others on the thread.


I guess if they're that dumb they deserve to be mocked. At any rate, they are anonymous and the chances that they know they are being mocked are miniscule. I see no problems with it.


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## ponycountry (Jan 9, 2014)

Yes Lisa I haven't been around the threads and forums much and I have no intention of fighting at all. Thanks for the enlightment though, I did in fact learn a lot from this post


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## Lisa in WA (Oct 11, 2004)

ponycountry said:


> Yes Lisa I haven't been around the threads and forums much and I have no intention of fighting at all. Thanks for the enlightment though, I did in fact learn a lot from this post


I didn't say you had any intention of fighting. Just pointing out that this, like many, many horse boards have a tendency to get scrappy.:grin:


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## Molly Mckee (Jul 8, 2006)

I think if the conversation here makes 1 person stop and think about breeding their grade mare ( I was going to say poor quality or mediocre, but no one has one of those!) or stand their not outstanding stallion at stud we have done our job. 

Although I have no idea why anyone wants to stand a stallion at stud just for a few bucks. It's a big pain, IMO, and the local should be gelded stallion is not going to bring in enough money to make up for all the aggravation dealing with the mares and their owners.

We do have members like SFM that do things the right way, know what they are doing and bred great horses--or ponies in her case! I'm not knocking good, knowledgeable breeders, just those who are not breeding wisely, and think they will make a little money because the resulting foal should have four legs, and therefore sell for lots of money.


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## wr (Aug 10, 2003)

Stonybrook said:


> I think Ponycountry's point was that the poster is probably uneducated and just doesn't know better. He (or she) may be right about that. It defies common sense that you would not clean up the horse, but not everyone has been taught better or has common sense. I guess that is the point of most of the others on the thread.



I guess my point is that if someone doesn't know enough to clean them up or prepare a decent advertisement, they probably shouldn't own a stallion much less consider breeding outside mares.


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