# Can a person be "More Vegetarian"



## MichaelZ (May 21, 2013)

I like meat. Actually, I love meat, but I can tolerate cutting back. Also I love some processed foods, but would not mind cutting back. Do any of you simply cut down on meat and processed foods without cutting it out entirely? And with what effect on your health?

I have looked into the Gerson therapy and some of it seems a bit out there. But I don't think I can argue that switching from meats and processed to natural fruits and veggies must be good for one's health. My wife's friend has brain tumors and doctors have given her months - yet none of the doctors recommended dietary changes? That puzzles me. And my wife's friend refuses any suggestions other than her doctor's advice, so there she sits, waiting to die at an age of only 57. 

Do you have suggestions for a person like me that is not ready to go 100% vegetarian? It would be nice to head off cancer or some other serious illness rather than wait for it to happen and take action. Note that I already exercise a lot - and I believe this does wonders for detoxing the body.


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## amandaleigh (Apr 10, 2013)

Making small changes is better than not changing at all. I would focus on using meat in smaller portions as a starting point - things like a stir fry where you can do a smaller portion of meat and extra veggies to make the meal satisfying. I would also look into doing grass fed beef or pastured chicken. These have a much better ration of Omega-3's to Omega-6's, which is key for keeping down inflammation.


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## Taylor R. (Apr 3, 2013)

I've learned from experience that it's really tough to change your diet completely in that way and stick to it. It's definitely beneficial to make little changes. Cutting your normal meat portion in half, and double your normal veggie portions, or trying to include one meatless meal each week, for example, are good ways to start being more conscientious of what you eat. Next time you're at the store looking at your favorite food-like substance, think of a way you could sort of recreate it without prepackaged foods.

We'll never go totally meatless in my house, but we do try to select meat that isn't super-processed.


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## Karen (Apr 17, 2002)

We're using meat more in the way most countries do, more as a seasoning for ramping up other dishes rather than the main focus of the meal. Plus we try to do at least one-two meatless days a week. 

At first it was a big transition as we were big meat eaters. We were raised all our lives with meat being center stage and everything else was coordinated around the meat; so it took some getting use to. But if you practice it as a habit to get into, it does become just a way of life after a while. You'll feel so much better and know you're doing a good thing. 

For the meatless days, we transitioned by making veggie 'substitutes' where we wouldn't miss the meat so much. For instance, switching to eggplant parmesan instead of chicken parmesan; grilling portebellos instead of hamburgers; cheese enchiladas instead of meat ones; veggie pizza instead of meated pizza, etc.


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## MichaelZ (May 21, 2013)

I would not mind switching from meat to cheese, but according to those advocating strict vegetarianism, this is not much better. One thing I like a lot is fresh green beans cooked and then covered with chopped onions, cheese, and of course some butter. When I run out of butter, it is kind of like running out of air. 

Probably the best thing I can do is try to snack on fresh veggies and fruits a lot more so as to fill up on them and then eat less of the regular meal and less meat (and less butter) at the regular meal.


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## Taylor R. (Apr 3, 2013)

Butter is not really the evil it was made out to be once. Yes, it's fatty, but it's mostly good fats. At least it isn't half-way to plastic!! Don't begrudge yourself a little butter if it makes those veggies edible


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## Bellyman (Jul 6, 2013)

I do know a fair number of vegetarians that have substituted cheese for meat and I'm not sure that's a good thing. Honestly, I think a good piece of grass fed beef or pastured chicken is probably better for you than any heavy cheese dish. I happen to love a good piece of wild caught fish, too. In my opinion, cheese (and I mean real cheese) should be more of a "condiment" than a "food group". Some people might look at meat in a similar way, not making it the focus of a meal but rather a seasoning or a "side" maybe.

Like Taylor said, butter isn't the bad guy it's been made out to be. It actually has some good stuff in it. And the stuff they sell in stores that's "half way to plastic" is atrocious, hardly even deserving of the label "food". And people think they're being healthy eating it. Uugh!! That doesn't mean that you eat a few pounds of butter a week, though. Use it sparingly. Make a little go a long way. (And FWIW, I have found that a little real butter is way more satisfying than twice or three times the amount of a fake butter. Dunno why but it's been true for me.) There are also times when a little olive oil or grapeseed oil can make a decent substitute for butter, kinda depends on what you're cookin'.


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## thewanderinwest (Oct 3, 2013)

The fact you are being so drawn to cutting back is a great sign you should give it a try. I am a vegetarian currently and haven&#8217;t craved a piece of meat in over four years. That is just a personal preference though, any amount you cut back is an accomplishment. Your body now relies on meat though, so be sure to respect if you start to crave the nutrients if you stop. Being a vegetarian full time means you have to put a lot of thought into every meal. You need to integrate a variety of vegetables/fruits in your diet as well as nuts and beans multiple times a day, but over time it becomes second nature.

Not to set myself up to sound inexperienced on the topic but I am 19 years and was drawn to cut red meat/pork out of my diet at the age of 11. I was feeling unhealthy consuming as much as my parents were feeding me, not to mention it was mostly processed. A few years later as I relied more on produce, I wasn&#8217;t feeling well eating chicken as often, so I slowly ate it less until I didn&#8217;t want it anymore. Finally four years ago I still had fish in my 90% vegetarian diet, then ate it four different times and got ill. I took it my body had enough of it too, and from then on I never touched meat again. 

The key really is, like anything else, don&#8217;t jump right in and restrict yourself completely. Instead of a burger one night grill up some eggplant or mushrooms the same way..you will be amazed how satisfying they can be. I know many people who had vegetarian kicks and got extremely ill because they forgot to replace the nutrients they were getting from meat. Don&#8217;t be afraid to take it slowly and respect your body adapting.


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## jwal10 (Jun 5, 2010)

Everything in moderation. We are not big meat eaters but we pick leaner meats, poultry and fish. For the last 2 years we haven't eaten much beef. We grind our own "burger" very lean and fresh, tastes better and takes less to feel satisfied....James


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## Evons hubby (Oct 3, 2005)

MichaelZ said:


> I like meat. Actually, I love meat, but I can tolerate cutting back. Also I love some processed foods, but would not mind cutting back. Do any of you simply cut down on meat and processed foods without cutting it out entirely? And with what effect on your health?
> 
> I have looked into the Gerson therapy and some of it seems a bit out there. But I don't think I can argue that switching from meats and processed to natural fruits and veggies must be good for one's health. My wife's friend has brain tumors and doctors have given her months - yet none of the doctors recommended dietary changes? That puzzles me. And my wife's friend refuses any suggestions other than her doctor's advice, so there she sits, waiting to die at an age of only 57.
> 
> Do you have suggestions for a person like me that is not ready to go 100% vegetarian? It would be nice to head off cancer or some other serious illness rather than wait for it to happen and take action. Note that I already exercise a lot - and I believe this does wonders for detoxing the body.


My good friend (currently nicknamed "brain damage") who is now living with us due to having a brain tumor the size of a golf ball removed a couple weeks ago was a very strict health conscious eater for many years. Day before yesterday while we were coming home from his having an MRI prior to his radiation/chemo treatments that begin next week he asked me to take him to burger king... something about he was really craving a thick juicy burger, and all that health food nonsense all those years hadnt really done him one bit of good. Yeah, we both indulged in a double whopper and some greasy fries, had a really great time. He is 58, never smoked, ate all the right stuff, lived pure and healthy.... and he is now reaping the rewards. I am getting ready to pull 18 pints of beef & vegetable stew he made this morning out of the canner. I think he is finally over his health food kick and ready to enjoy each and every precious day that he may have left.


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## papatree84 (Sep 30, 2013)

If you have a Netflix account check out a documentary called forks over knives. It inspired my girlfriend and I to go vegetarian and cut out all processed foods. We have both lost tons of weight and look way healthier. We feel healthy too, as in less bloated and greasy and dirty (we didn't even know we used to be that way till we switched). We have been vegs for a year now but recently started eating small amounts of fish after learning about the Japanese diet, often considered the healthiest in the world. Anyways, We totally recommend it If you care about your health. And for your friend, the is tons of proof that 100% whole foods vegan based diets that cure cancer. pharmaceutical COMPANIES don't want you to know cause they would lose billions. Do some research.


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## JamieCatheryn (Feb 9, 2013)

I think unprocessed and higher in veggies is the important part. Our family cut down on grains and increased the veggies and started having even more than before from scratch and it made a huge difference. But we kept the meat, we do best with more fat and protein.


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## Mid Tn Mama (May 11, 2002)

Over the years, we have reduced the amount of meat and cheese that we used to eat. Over the last 12 years, we have eliminated most processed foods. We only cook with whole wheat, brown rice, etc... I make our bread, pancakes, tortillas, noodles from scratch.

Like Karen, we started to really pay attention to proper portions. Even eating the recommended meat portion is at least half of what most Americans eat for each meal! At least once or twice a week, we have a meatless meal. This is easy for us if the texture is like meat--as in enchiladas made with lentils and bulgur wheat and corn.

I do not believe in replacing meat with textured, processed meat substitutes like soy or tvp. We eat fish at least once per week.

Every day we have a couple servings (lunch/dinner) of some type of beans. They really fill you up, replace proteins and you can eat lots more of them and not worry about the bad effects compared to eating the same amount of meat.

I have reduced the use of egg yolks to once a week eggs over easy (and I do look forward to that). I learned a lot of good things from vegan cooking--one of which is that you don't necessarily need oil to stir fry (a bit of water works when things stick in my cast iron pan).

Those beans have the added effect of helping to remove the cholesterol from your body. Boy are you regular when you eat this way. You might need some Beano pills when you start eating more vegetables. Definitely helps with digestion and colon health.

I replaced pureed fruit/applesauce in place of oil in cookies/brownies. I've replaced a handful of nuts instead of chips with sandwiches.

We eat only one portion of sausage or bacon per week with our previously mentioned, much-looked-forward-to egg breakfast.

I've reduced the amount of sugar I eat drastically. I even consider fruit as part of that and have replaced with more vegetables. 

I've lost weight and do feel better eating this way. I'm not dieting--get enough to feel sated, not cheated.


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## Mid Tn Mama (May 11, 2002)

You asked about dishes we eat:

I haven't checked my cholesterol since really getting serious about it but am looking forward to the test! I don't like being hungry or feeling like I'm craving something. I have just replaced what I used to crave.

Examples of how we cook: I use a lot of what is being harvested in the garden. I rotate through general types of dishes so we don't get tired of them. Basically, instead of using one chicken breast per person, I fix one chicken breast for the entire dish and add some type of beans (rotating through white beans, black beans pinto beans, lentils, yellow lentils, etc....)

The main types of dishes I make on a rotating basis are: Indian curry, Thai stir fry, Chinese stir fry and mexican (usually some type of enchilada) Most are served over ww noodles or rice (1/2 cup is not overdoing good carbs)

Then we will have a fish meal with a baked potato and whatever vegetable is harvested that day. I usually have several days of vegetable/bean soup (minestrone or white bean or black bean soup) that is a filling precursor to dinner; or is the packed lunch.

I might put a tsp of grated cheese on the soup, but I never use lots of cheese like before. I have found a little bit of low fat feta cheese adds a nice punch to dishes without a lot of fat and cholesterol.


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## Bellyman (Jul 6, 2013)

I like your style, Mid Tn Mama. 

I grew up on the "fake meats". And I ate plenty of them. I've pretty much quit eating them with only an occasional piece of something. I have come to believe that that stuff is really not a good and wholesome food to eat on a regular basis. 

I have gone to eating some good quality wild caught fish and good quality organic meats, when I can find them. It's hard sometimes as there is a LOT of meat out there that I wouldn't touch with a 10' pole. 

One thing I did find is that it doesn't take nearly as large a piece of quality meat to satisfy me as it does with the fake stuff, which never really satisfies, just fills. 

I find something similar with butter vs margarine. I only use real butter now, not the fake stuff. And I find that it takes very little to satisfy me where I can put gobs of the fake stuff on the bread in the same way and it still doesn't quite satisfy.

While I do think that someday, I'll probably be a vegetarian again, maybe even a vegan, I'm not to that point yet. I don't have the nutritional sources to know that I'm capable of getting what my body needs to operate at full function in either vegetarian or vegan mode. I know a few who have reached that point, but they grow almost all of their own and they have likely forgotten more than I'll ever know about both nutrition and soil chemistry. There really is more to it than falling off of a stump if you expect to be healthy in 10 or 20 or 30 years.


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## Mid Tn Mama (May 11, 2002)

I roast a lot of vegetables now: green beans and okra are our favorites--I toss with a little olive oil and dollar general soul seasoning.
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Train Wreck Zuchini
Saute 1/2 sliced onion with 2-3 cups sliced zuchini or yellow squash. Add 1/4 cup ketchup and 1 1/2 tsp basil. Salt and pepper to taste.
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MTM's Husband's favorite Zuchini:
Saute Saute 1/2 sliced onion with 2-3 cups sliced zuchini or yellow squash, Add 1 tblsp worchester sauce. Pepper to taste (I don't add more salt because the w. sauce has a lot already)
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I keep a quart jar of hm teriyaki sauce in the frig during the summer and fall and we eat stir fry most nights. I change up the teriyaki by making it "Thai" by adding a little peanut butter. I stir fry a sliced 1/2 onions with whatever vegetables are available, add teriyaki at the end until thickened sauce.
Teriyaki: Put 1/4 cup soy sauce in the quart jar, add water to almost the top, 2 tblsp sugar, 2-3 tblsp cornstarch. Put the lid on and shake. I use about 3/4 cup to a skillet-full of sauteed vegetables.
BTW: I now reduce the oil I use by "water" stir frying my vegetables. I start with a little oil and add water when it gets sticky.
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I make a lot of curry dishes with whatever vegetables I have on hand. It only takes a minute to stir fry, add a 1/2 can of coconut milk and a couple tblsp of curry. Salt and pepper to taste.
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We make a lot of Indian tacos that include a lot of vegetables in the form of lettuce, tomatoes, beans, corn, salsa. It is so much better with HM tacos. Half the time I make these meatless: REcipe from food.com
3 cups all-purpose flour 
1 tablespoon baking powder 
1/2 teaspoon salt 
1 1/2 cups warm water 
Oil, for frying

Directions

Put flour, baking powder, and salt in a large bowl. Mix well, add warm water and stir until dough begins to ball up. On a lightly floured surface knead dough. Do not over-work the dough. After working dough, place in a bowl and refrigerate for 1/2 to 1 hour. 
Heat oil to 350 degrees in a frying pan or kettle. Lightly flour surface and pat and roll out baseball size pieces of dough. Cut hole in middle with a knife (so the dough will fry flat) to 1/4-inch thickness and place in oil and cook until golden brown and flip over and cook opposite side until same golden brown. Dough is done in about 3 minutes depending on oil temperature and thickness of dough. 
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I have come to love fresh steamed brocoli with nothing but lemon pepper on it.


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## Grumpy old man (Aug 6, 2013)

Well... "They" said butter was bad use margarine ,then well maybe butter is better for you ,Then it was sugar is bad use saccharine , Then well maybe sugar is better for you so use sugar , all 4 of my grand parents at real food from their farms and animals and all 4 lived to the ripe old age of 102 ,So I eat from the farm and we stay away from processed meats /foods . you are what you eat and I have no idea what is in a double creme frothy super sized latte .


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## haley1 (Aug 15, 2012)

A friend was healed by the version therapy and has introduced me to several others that were healed by it too


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## Grumpy old man (Aug 6, 2013)

haley1 said:


> A friend was healed by the version therapy and has introduced me to several others that were healed by it too


I was cured by the VENISON Therapy and it works for me !:nanner:


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## bluefish (Jan 27, 2006)

I think it really depends on your body and your stage of life. I have tried and tried to go completely vegetarian and I can't do it. I get sick and stay sick. I need the animal protein. Not all people do. My 2 yr old will very rarely eat meat and she does fine with it, at least so far. She may change as she gets older. As she has a variety of non processed foods to choose from, I let her pick what she eats to a certain degree.

We do, however, only eat meat, eggs and milk/milk products that WE raise. We raise steers and pigs as the opportunity presents itself and also chickens, turkeys and dairy goats. I can't stomach store bought meats/eggs/milk anymore. They make me sick, too.

I'd say go for it, but listen to what your body is telling you about what you require.


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## Grumpy old man (Aug 6, 2013)

I stopped at the local Mc Donalds the other day for the first time in I can't remember and was sick for 3 days , My stomach was telling me what I've known for years that stuff is bad for ya !


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## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

haley1 said:


> A friend was healed by the version therapy and has introduced me to several others that were healed by it too


What is version therapy? I'm not familiar with the term.


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## haley1 (Aug 15, 2012)

irish pixie said:


> what is version therapy? I'm not familiar with the term.


sorry, darn autocorrect... Gerson THERAPY


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## haley1 (Aug 15, 2012)

American cancer is pro cancer, if cancer was cured it would be out of business... big money. Richard Nixon declared the war on cancer 41 years ago were are we at... poisoning people to cure them?


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## Karen (Apr 17, 2002)

Please remember that this is an Alternative Health forum and that any alternative treatments will be considered as having value to those who choose to use them and who are responsible for their own research. No nay-saying allowed; please read the rules posted at the top of this forum.
http://www.homesteadingtoday.com/co.../269127-rules-forum-everyone-please-read.html


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## Rick (May 10, 2002)

See the sticky at the top re: Eating your way back to health!

Eat tons of veggies and fruit- emphasis on green and lower starch and fructose, and TONS, and the meat will automatically reduce 

We only eat meat once or twice a week. We bought half a grass fed beef in March of 2011 and still have about 20% left. When we throw a pair of steaks on a fire, we save 1/3 for a stir fry or stew later in the week. 

We limit ourselves to 1 burger when using the ground beef.

The China Study by Campbell and Campbell show research indicating that too much protein, even plant based, can inhibit our bodies ability to fight cancer and other diseases of affluence. PHD T Colin Campbell's, dad died from a massive coronary at age 70. They lived on a traditional meat, egg, dairy based farm diet. 

Campbell was involved in a program in the Phillipenes, through Va. Tech with the goal of finding ways of increasing protein in the diet. 
His research spans 40 years.

Prevent and Reverse Heart Dsease by Caldwell B Esselstyn,Jr, MD
His work at the Cleveland Clinic is well known. 

Ann and my philosophy is 

1) raise it yourself and buy organic when you can.

2) limit someone else putting your food in a package. 

3) Eat meat, just not every day, and pork is for special Occasions, and no store bought chicken. 

4) milk, butter and cheese are limited but only because of the hormones and drugs given to commercial cows


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## Sparticle (Nov 1, 2004)

oops double post


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## Sparticle (Nov 1, 2004)

Didn't read all the comments, but I"m sure they are good. I'm a vegetarian, herbalist and health enthusiast and I always tell people, I don't see anything bad or wrong with eating meat. I think too many people get into a certain "doctrine" are are zealots on all sides, even though there are good arguments on all sides. I don't eat meat for many reasons, 1) I'm allergic to most meat 2) the meat I can eat (like fish) is swimming in contaminated oceans and I'm not quite ready to grow my own fish yet 3) I could probably eat organic goat or turkey and may one day, but not prepared at this phase of my life to kill something for food when I feel healthy eating what I grow out of the garden. I would probably have to trade one day to eat meat. 

With that said, I think people in Western society do eat too much meat and cutting back is probably good. Eating only organic meat, butter and cheeses would be more important I would think than even cutting back. And at their prices cutting back might be the only option. there is a TREMENDOUS difference between organic butter and meat and I'm talking in quantity of good fats and other things. 

"In our factory farmed food universe today, where animals aren&#8217;t grass-fed and free-range, but are fed on cheaply grown grains and other unnatural feed heavy in omega 6 fats, the fats from those animals are in turn deficient in omega 3 fatty acids and heavy in omega 6 fatty acids. Thus, factory farmed dairy, beef, and their derivatives, as well as vegetable oils made from cheaply grown grains, are overloading our diet with omega 6 fatty acids, and we are deficient in omega 3 fatty acids. These factory farmed meats and dairy are considered inflammatory in part because omega 6 fatty acid is used to make inflammation molecules. For example, the prostaglandins that are produced by the body after insulin spikes are made out of omega 6 fatty acid." - http://heidilore.wordpress.com/2010/01/24/inflammation-example-one-way-comfort-food-poisons/

I have friends that are vegans, raw foodist, and those on the primal diet. I've learned about and tried what I can from each of these and find a balance of cooked and raw veggies, fruits and grains works best for my body type. there isn't a one size fits all diet that works for everyone. Just like in religion, the ones that claim they are the only correct ones, are probably wrong. 

Because of the western medicine mentality, too often those of us concerned about health, tend to give blanket answers for all people. This herb is good for that disease... NO this herb (or food) is good for this person's chemistry or make up - or lack or excess. Like I'm dry and cold, so I wouldn't want to eat things that dried me out further. 

So the most important thing is to eat food that is as close to the original intention as possible, like organic, GMO free, free range, home grown. 

I know vegetarians who stopped eating meat to be healthy and eat more crap than your average wal-mart shopper. Those pre-packaged, fake meat patties are almost as bad as any other pre-packaged foods. They are a nice treat and everything in moderation. But please don't replace a small portion of a free range, grass feed beef for a pack of veggie patties. I eat fake meat as a treat, usually fake bacon, but everything in moderation. 

Another opinion is that bone broth soups may be even more healthy than just plan meat. So look into those healthy and nutritious soups which also would reduce meat consumption, but give you the good stuff your body needs, especially during the winter. 

The less packaging the better, the closer to original source the better. Congratulations on really thinking about your health and questioning the norms!


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## Rick (May 10, 2002)

Sparticle for USDA Chief!

What an incredible post !


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## Bellyman (Jul 6, 2013)

Sparticle, I too appreciated your post. Thanks.

When I read thermopke's post above, I was kinda thinking some of the things you said.

One of the few vegan friends that I've been impressed by has stated on a numerous occasions that he'd rather have a piece of organic, quality meat than a lot of the fake meats out there. That kinda shocked me the first time I heard him say it but it makes sense, especially when reading the ingredient list on some of the fake stuff. Yowsa... some of that stuff is horrible. But it's sold as "health food" to so many. Kinda ruffles my feathers. 

So over the past year or so, we've actually ate more meat than we did previously. But we got rid of almost all of the fake meat substitutes with only the occasional meal with something like that. I can't say we feel a whole lot differently health wise but I feel good about our general decisions in that regard.


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## Karen (Apr 17, 2002)

Sparticle, great info and definitely something I want to research more!


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## Sparticle (Nov 1, 2004)

Thanks guys!


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## MichaelZ (May 21, 2013)

papatree84 said:


> If you have a Netflix account check out a documentary called forks over knives. It inspired my girlfriend and I to go vegetarian and cut out all processed foods. We have both lost tons of weight and look way healthier. We feel healthy too, as in less bloated and greasy and dirty (we didn't even know we used to be that way till we switched). We have been vegs for a year now but recently started eating small amounts of fish after learning about the Japanese diet, often considered the healthiest in the world. Anyways, We totally recommend it If you care about your health. And for your friend, the is tons of proof that 100% whole foods vegan based diets that cure cancer. pharmaceutical COMPANIES don't want you to know cause they would lose billions. Do some research.


Yes, I watched this documentary a few months ago. There was some very compelling evidence. But also, "Forks over Knives" reveals itself as more an animal-rights piece as you watch toward the end so I don't take everything they say as 100% true. What I found curious was their lack of emphasis on exercise, almost implying animal-free diet alone will work. Still, I think much of what they claimed is valid. Another compelling documentary is _Fat, Sick, and Nearly Dead_, also on Netflix. 

At any rate, I am going to have to try a bit harder now that fresh veggie season is over in the N. WI frozen tundra. In the summer I grab a handful of fresh green beans a few times each day. Now, I tend more to grab a processed item.


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