# Kitchen knife set



## JRHill02 (Jun 20, 2020)

On line shopping is difficult. You just can't trust the write-ups and reviews.

Our current set with the wooden block just won't hold an edge any more. I've reprofiled the edges several times on the most used knives and I am having to touch up the edged almost every time before use now. The DW wants a new set so I set off for a decent replacement set. Ergh.

We raise some livestock and dress them out our selves. When we buy store meat we usually buy family packs and dress them a little better and repackage for servings of two. Our knives get a lot of use.

We have some random, ugly old knives that are very well worn and my gosh the can still hold a razor edge. So where do I shop for a quality present for the DW (and myself, wink)?


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## Alice In TX/MO (May 10, 2002)

Get the best knives you can afford.

Get a good skinning knife, a heavy duty carving knife, and a paring knife. The big sets are over kill.

Article that has good recommendations:








The Best Kitchen Knives We've Ever Tested


These sliced and diced the competition!




www.goodhousekeeping.com


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## JRHill02 (Jun 20, 2020)

Alice In TX/MO said:


> Get the best knives you can afford.
> 
> Get a good skinning knife, a heavy duty carving knife, and a paring knife. The big sets are over kill.
> 
> ...


Thx Alice. I'll go through your link in more detail. I kind of agree that big sets aren't needed but that's what she wants and that's what I'm going to get her, it I can find a set that fits the budget.

Right now my absolutely favorite skinning tool is an Ulu from Knives of Alaska, a gift from the DW. It is arthritis friendly on the wrists and the edge just goes and goes. I did a pig with it today and it made it almost to the end without a touchup. Those folks have some two knife "kits" but not the wider assortment that she wants. And she gets what she wants one way or another.

Thanks for your link. I have to do this right or "else."


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## Wellbuilt (Dec 25, 2020)

I have this set on my counter . 
The stake knives are good I have 16 of them ,I like the chif knife the boner the bread knife and scissors the sharpener is ok allso there are 2 knives I don’t use . 
I like the old wooden handled Chicago cutlery from the 80s I bought 3 sets one year for Christmas my wife got one , my mom , and father-in-law got them and now they have passed
so I have all 3 . 
In the late 80s the set cost me 29 bucks 😊 good deal .


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## JRHill02 (Jun 20, 2020)

Hmm. If I go this way I better order it line. The "associates" seem to disappear when there is a question.


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## NRA_guy (Jun 9, 2015)

Avoid Cutco like the plague. It costs 3 or 4 times what it is worth and takes 5 or 6 times longer to arrive.

. . . but it has a lifetime guarantee. (Not worth it and chances are you will never try to collect on that guarantee.)


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## oregon woodsmok (Dec 19, 2010)

I bought a set of Cangshan knifes. They are full tang forged knifes with comfortable handles and they hold an edge for a very long time.

They also take an edge well when it is time to finally sharpen them. Reviews say that handles will yellow over time if you put them in the dishwasher, but I never put good knives in the dishwasher, so that hasn't been an issue for me.

If you can find Zwilling Henckels that are made in Germany, those are great knifes. Unfortunately, the company sold out their name and you can buy cheap sets of Henckels made in China. Not the same knifes at all, so you have to check the country of origin. 

A German made Henckels is a bit on the expensive side but I've got a Henckels that is over 60 years old and is still in great shape. They can be a good investment.


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## muleskinner2 (Oct 7, 2007)

I have an old home made kitchen knife that I traded a bearskin for twenty years ago. That and one of the potato peeler things, is all the cutlery I ever use in the kitchen. I have a box full of old knives in my shop, but I never use them.

When I am hunting or guiding I carry a Randall, Alaskan Skinner I bought forty years ago. It will skin and cut up a Moose without needing to be sharpened.


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## HermitJohn (May 10, 2002)

I hadnt been here for long time, ran across this thread on search for something else. 

Anyway OP mentioning knife wont hold edge. If it did before, most likely blade needs thinning. There is more to cutting ability than just sharpened edge. As knives wear (mostly from sharpening), the V widens so even freshly sharpened they dont feel as sharp. 

Recently bought box 8 junk kitchen knives for $1. There was one funky one in the box with holes in blade I was curious about. And yea, box knives for $1. Hard to go wrong for $1. But also a very blunt stamped steel 8in Farberware chef knife and matching paring knife. May been an older one as it had some heft to it but did say CHINA on it. Ok I had never played with one but figured just another $8 China knife from Walmart. My guess probably 420-J2 steel or equivalent. Anyway it is basically bar steel with shallow hollow grind at bottom. Sort of like what they call a Skandi edge. So even seriously sharp this thing was a pig to try and slice veggies with. It cracked carrots rather than cut them. 

Had me scratching my head a bit and figured try tapering it more, both spine to edge and tip to handle. Asking lot of my little 1x30 belt sander as lot metal to remove. Not as tapered as I would liked, but I got it tapered lot better than it was. Night and day far as slicing. Its now a knife I could actually live with daily use if I had to. I am using it as my daily driver, just curious how long it will hold the edge. Like say this isnt great steel. Knife edge only touches food and maple cutting board, hand washing, and hanging on magnetic strip. In other words treating it like any knife should be treated. Lot edge retention is not the steel but once properly sharpened, how you treat the knife. Just as comparison, got out 4 star Zwilling JA Henckel very well sharpened. Oh it can easily outcut the modified Farberware, but its also very well engineered knife. The German Henckels are good steel far as kitchen knives go, but not THAT good. Its also about profile and weight/balance. Not just the steel. 

I will say there are some knives made of what I call mystery gummy steel. I swear getting sharp edge on them is very difficult. You sharpen and get the wire, but it just wont come off, wants to fold over. So will seem very sharp, but next moment very dull. I have one Chinese forged paring knife like that, super frustrating, but learned lot from it.

By way IF you can sharpen a knife properly, used knives can be real bargain. You can get a used four star Henckel made in Germany for $25 to $35 in nice shape, just probably dull. $100+ new. Damaged or very worn ones cheaper than $20. The International Henckel Classic made in Spain are the traditional bargain. Around $50 new. They are pretty much equivalent of German version far as steel goes, but they arent finished as nice. I got a 6inch Spanish chef knife, petty knife, prep knife, whatever you want to call it. for $15. I first gave it partial bolsterectomy, the traditional German design knives have this crazy large bolster that is royal pain to grind down as you sharpen the knife, but if you dont, it will tap dance when you try to use it to chop stuff on cutting board. Then went about smoothing spine and top of bolster and even rounding the handle, though its some kind plastic that really didnt like being sanded much. Then sharpened it. Nice as the German Henckel after that. IMHO, the Chinese and Indian Henckels, dont pay extra for the Henckels name, its just another Chinese knife. Not sure how I feel about six inch chef knife. I kinda bought the Spanish Henckel just to find that out. It gives little more control for some smaller stuff, but I still prefer 8in to 10 in chef knife. The old rule, one big knife, one small knife, thats really all you need for kitchen work. Need other knives for your own butchering. But few do that anymore. 

Oh you want super bargain, look for the "Old Homestead" and "Maxam" MADE IN JAPAN in 60s and 70s. These were made to compete with USA made Chicago Cutlery and Ekco knives of that era. The Maxam actually really nice chopper, lower profile chef knife, but well balanced. This will match the German Henckel in finely chopping things. Oddly you see these cheap but its like nobody ever tried to sharpen them. Many look pristine like they didnt even get used much. I didnt find it difficult and properly sharp they are quite nice. Dont get me wrong, these are not high end knives, but no idea why they dont have more popularity. Perfectly decent knife that holds its edge reasonably well. You can easily find them even on ebay well under $10. The Old Homestead and clones (Japanese knives back then sold under variety meaningless made up names) very common in thrift stores. I have a ten inch Old Homestead that is quite nice to use, actually like the ten inch version better than the eight inch. Its taller blade and more heft. Also have a Lone Star clone of it. Looks identical. Oh the Old Homestead type knives tended to have name of knife carved into wood handle. Always made them look kinda cheap/cheesy. I mean who needs to be told a chef knife is a chef knife or a paring knife is a paring knife.

So to wrap up, yep always better knives out there, BUT the best one is probably one you already own. Few ever get worn out in home kitchen use. Only those butchers use steel on before every second cut. Or some somebody tried to sharpen with a cheap electric sharpener like on back of some old electric can openers.

Oh another mention that I ran across but rarely gets talked about. The original MAC "CK" 9in caring knife, also easily used as chef knife because of its wedge shape. Made in Japan and originally sold in 60s and widely copied when it gained popularity. West Bend actually made a copy of it in Wisconsin at one point. Thin stiff blade. "Vanadium steel". I havent ever used one and cheap used ones start around $30 so I probably wont. But people brag on how easy to sharpen and how well they keep their edge. Honestly my guess, its cause they are a thin tapered blade. A thin blade always easier to sharpen and will seem sharper than a thicker blade and this is thin blade also tapered from edge too spine. I couldnt say, but guessing this is its only secret. More the profile than the steel. Though guessing its well tempered and they made the best of what steel they used. But probably not a special steel. Super hard steels are actually harder to sharpen. They keep their edge longer but not so easy to sharpen by usual homeowner methods. Oh you can still buy a new one. But its something like $70. MAC has good rep and sells some much higher end knives. Higher end Japanese knives are quite popular right now.


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## HermitJohn (May 10, 2002)

I was just wondering more about thinning a knife and difference it makes. Out of my $1 box of knives, I pulled out a serrated Farberware paring knife. Stamped steel. Stiff as any average stamped steel paring knife. Nice enough plastic handle (better than most plastic handles) Ok its dull and I have no use for serrated paring knife even if it wasnt.

So first ground off the serrations with angle grinder. Then gave it a full flat blade grind taper from spine to edge on both sides of blade. Making a narrow V-wedge out of the whole blade, not just shallow bit at bottom. Now angle grinder isnt a great tool for this and it wasnt as perfect as I would liked it. But ok, then sharpened edge with the little belt sander. 

I had played a bit with converting serrated knives before. If they are hollow ground both sides and metal is good enough quality, it can work. But this Farberware just flat chunk metal with serrated edge. Not hollow ground, no taper, not high grade steel. 

Anyway the results were pretty impressive. Feels very sharp. Its truly a pleasant paring knife to use though bit funky looking from using the angle grinder to remove that much metal. Now doubt it will hold up that long converted because it is a throw away knife and cheap steel. But does give really good idea how important profile is in knife sharpness. I remember some noname white handle paring knife several years ago that I just ground off serrations and put sharp edge on it. No tapering. Despite being a thin stamped blade, it took lot more effort to force it through food than should have for any sharp knife. Ended up using it as a gasket scraper.

I would definitely guess this was secret to those 1960s era MAC "CK" knives that got MAC lot positive attention. Thin tapered blade and being a MAC, guessing even if steel nothing special, they at least hardened and tempered it well. But thin and tapered means also easy to sharpen and will feel sharp longer. This is what people noticed. They assumed it was some super special steel, but highly doubt that since it was noticeably easy to sharpen. Very hard steels are not easy to sharpen. Thin blades are easy to sharpen, cause it requires less metal to be removed.


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## HermitJohn (May 10, 2002)

Knife sharpening kind of an ongoing hobby for me. But did strike me today, most people in modern world really dont use a sharp kitchen knife all that much. Really only use it on raw produce and to cut up meat. Modern folk tend to buy much of their food already chopped or otherwise cut up, frozen or canned. Most probably use it for opening plastic more than cutting up food. Odd this just never occurred to me. I still say its an important life skill to sharpen and use a knife, but guess it really isnt for majority.


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## romysbaskets (Aug 29, 2009)

I was given a couple old henkel knives for free and they're awesome!


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## HermitJohn (May 10, 2002)

romysbaskets said:


> I was given a couple old henkel knives for free and they're awesome!


The German made ones are great. The Spanish "Classic" made ones are good, just dont have the fit and finish of the German ones, but clean up nice and keep edge as well as the German ones. I personally would avoid the Asian ones, but if they are free or buck or two at thrift store, then give them a try. Chinese knives are a mixed bag, they can make good stuff, but are good at making something look nicer than it actually is. Be wary of any claiming high Rockwell hardness or imitations of some high end artisan Japanese knife. They dont tend to want to use expensive steels, but over harden cheaper steels to where they can be bit brittle. Look at Amazon reviews and you will find pics of Chinese knives that snapped just crushing garlic or falling off a table. Now Chinese have 70% world market in kitchen knives so in any production run going to be some duds. But have really poor quality control in any of their manufacturing. So lot of 'luck of the draw' involved.


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## GREENCOUNTYPETE (Jul 25, 2006)

I can make life simple for you Dexter Russel , Victronox , F-Dick you buy knives from those 3 companies and you will get good quality useful professional knives 

are they the fancy pretty ones , no most of them are not 

if they sell it in a big box store 95% garbage or more.


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## HermitJohn (May 10, 2002)

GREENCOUNTYPETE said:


> I can make life simple for you Dexter Russel , Victronox , F-Dick you buy knives from those 3 companies and you will get good quality useful professional knives
> 
> are they the fancy pretty ones , no most of them are not
> 
> if they sell it in a big box store 95% garbage or more.


Wish it were that simple. Those tend to be serviceable, and some of older or higher end F-Dick are great knives, same as some of older Dexter, especially the old non-stainless carbon steel Dexters. The Victorinox plastic handle NSF restaurant knives are not some great bargain at their current $40 price. They have been way over hyped as the "economy choice" by reviewers and tv cooking shows, mostly just parroting each other. I mean they are ok, nothing to write home about if you have ever used a good knife. They were $25 until all the hype, then suddenly $40. Yea right. Read the reviews on Amazon, lot people not so happy as the tv show and magazines recommending them. Shame on you Americas Test Kitchen. Want a truly good bargain go to Walmart and look for the white handle NSF Tramontina Proline knives made in Brazil. I saw their chef knife there for $8 but noticed it was flat grind and distal taper which was unexpected. Yea cheapo plastic handle like all restaurant supply NSF knives. $8 so threw one in cart, more curiosity as cheap knives tend not to have those qualities. Its an impressive knife for $8. Honestly its as good or better than similar NSF Victorinox or Dexter knives you will find. It was VERY SHARP new out of package. Most new knives need some touchup, they are sharpened on automated machine at factory and usually not super great job of it. Many are cynically given a wide shallow edge. This wont cut great but will appear "sort of sharp" longer. They know people abuse knife and are clueless to how to sharpen, so they they give it a non-optimal edge that will last longest.

Most of problem is people dont know how to sharpen knives. I mean actually truly sharp, not kitchen gadget sort of sharp. Its hard to beat the value of that Tramontina I mentioned and NO all Tramontina knives are not that quality. They make some good ones and some schlock just like most knife companies. Schlock knives are PROFITABLE. Most people dont want to spend beaucoup bucks on kitchen knife. That one being $8 though is truly impressive. If it was $40, meh, ok and you wont be unhappy, especially if you can keep it sharpened and all knives need to be sharpened eventually. 

Any knife can be sharpened. Interestingly the really low end ones and the really high end ones can be most difficult. Nearly all middle of road ones can be sharpened and hold their edge pretty well if not abused. Want a bargain in used knife, look for older 1960s/1970s Japanese made knives like Old Homestead, Maxam, or Yorktowne (Japanese at time sold knives under lot made up names, same knives, different names). They take and hold an edge well. Very common and cheap in thrift stores and can be found under $10 on ebay. And there were some interesting thin blade Japanese knives like MAC, Dione Lucas, Tendron Swords, etc. MAC being company popularizing such knives in America. The thin blade ones ( Molybdenum-Vanadium and "JAPAN" stamped on them) usually get abused, they need to be hand sharpened and gentle touch. You will ruin them unless you know what you are doing (no gadgets) but they hold edge well and cut amazingly well. Notice ALL these have full flat grind and distal taper unlike consumer dollar store thin knives. All these bring lot more money than they used to. Cause they were good knives if you took care of them. MAC still sells original line and higher end knives, they have very good reputation. Their original line built their reputation. I think bit over priced in 2021 but what isnt anymore.

And no you dont need $500 knife to cut your cabbage though lot of the review sites seem to think anything less than $100 is a worthless blunt toy. Honestly mostly want to avoid the consumer dollar store type knives. the NSF restaurant supply kind knives best bang for buck buying cheap new knife, but even they differ in quality. Mostly you need to know how to actually sharpen a knife and then how to not abuse it. No dishwasher, the edge needs to touch only food or hardwood cutting board. Store it dry in sheath or on magnetic strip. Most people couldnt sharpen a knife to save them and most treat them with no respect, so even if they get it sharp, it wont stay that way for long. Seriously do not use a sharp knife to cut food in a pan or dish, it will dull it. Or else get a special turd knife ONLY used for this that doesnt have to be very sharp.

Personally I would tend to avoid Chinese made knives unless you know what you are looking for. They are good at making knife look lot better than it is. Really bad about trying to overharden cheaper steels making them brittle. But yea some good Chinese knives. Just lot easier to be fooled. Probably safest to stick with knives actually made in Europe, or Japan or Taiwan or Brazil. If it says China on it or has no country of origin, then its China by default. They have like 70% kitchen knife market. Lamson I think maybe only quality knife maker in USA anymore, meaning large maker, there are lot boutique individual makers. Dexter makes some knives in USA, the cheaper ones elsewhere. Their better NSF rated knives (ones with plastic handle) made in Japan. But the Winco Stal line NSF knives made in China and they are good knives. Most likely have to touch up the edge new out of package though. They are flat grind and distal taper, like the Tramontina Proline. Humbee Cuisine Pro another good NSF knife. Be aware companies like Humbee also make a lower grade NSF knife. Dont confuse the two. The brand tends to mean little, they all make various grades of knife at differing price points. Cheapo crappo knives are PROFITABLE cause they sell LOT of them. More so than some high end high dollar knife cause yea its expensive but they also sell far fewer of them.


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## GREENCOUNTYPETE (Jul 25, 2006)

I have this in the 8 and 10 inch purchased from amazon in the last year Amazon.com: Dexter 10" Cook's Knife, red Handle : Home & Kitchen

as well as 2 of the older white handle santi-safe 10 inch and a 6 inch purchased this year 

they are all quite serviceable and I am chopping vegetables and meat 3-4 nights a weak with one of them

I keep a Diamond steel around and when it doesn't feel like it is effortlessly enough gliding through meat or vegetable I touch it up on the steel.

when I feel like the diamond steel isn't getting me back to glide through sharp in several licks on the rod I go to the work sharp and take some metal off setting a 20 degree edge bevel getting it good and sharp then I am good to go with the steel for a good while longer 

we are talking 10-30 dollar knives here not 100-300 dollar , I can live with a little sharpening


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## HermitJohn (May 10, 2002)

GREENCOUNTYPETE said:


> we are talking 10-30 dollar knives here not 100-300 dollar , I can live with a little sharpening


I agree, can live with a little sharpening. The super hard steels tend to be more brittle and harder to sharpen. Most knives are serviceable, just avoid the ultra cheap stuff. Though I have a Dollar Tree $1 knife I bought few years ago as a practice knife. Truly a PITA to sharpen and get it to stay sharp more than a week. I finally gave it a full flat grind and that helped a lot, keeps its edge much better. You know for a knife sold brand new for $1 that they only used the finest steel and manufacturing techniques..... LOL Geometry of a knife is as important as the steel. So far it managed to stay sharp whole month. before I got sidetracked with the Tramontina. So yea if that Dollar Tree knife was all I had, could live with it. The $8 Tramontina was whole lot better knife though.

I have found four star Henckel made in Germany for under $20. Needed sharpening of course. Very nice knife, think they are $100+ new. Others too, too many, became sort of a hobby. So if you are not opposed to used, it really isnt hard or expensive to find a decent knife. Knowledge is power, so if you know what you are looking for, usually find it at cheap enough price. If you need a full set that matches the color of your eyes, or one made from ore mined on the moon, then guess you will pay more. I will hold out for one I know will stay sharp six month to a year. Most will if taken care of and not abused. I sure dont consider sharpening a knife every six month excessive. Its when they get dull before one month is out that I am peeved.


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## GREENCOUNTYPETE (Jul 25, 2006)

part of why I have so many of those Santi-safe chefs knives is that I was at a gun show and a guy was selling them for 8 dollars each used , I put a enough together that I offered him 20 for the pile and he said sure means I got them for 6.66 each.

it is hard to find a decent knife at most big box stores , such junk is sold and at stupid prices 

if you know where to look good can be found 

I really like the old hickory 7-7 butcher knives they run 1095 steel and it will keep an edge for a good while while cutting , it will however rust if left dirty.


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## RockOn (Jun 12, 2021)

I ordered i very good set of knives on Amazon. I honestly didn't pay attention at brand, but those where pretty pricey and with tons of good reviews. Not disappointed. The other thing i am sure about - nuwave now phone number can be dialed if you need a good consultation on this matter. You can read more about them in case an advice needed.


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## Pony (Jan 6, 2003)

I've always had Chicago cutlery knives. They hold an edge, and for the price, have been consistently good. I can't afford Wusthof, but do have a couple of other decent knives of different brands that I've acquired over the years (more years than I care to count...)

My favorite is an ancient, BIG honkin' Chicago cutlery knife my FIL picked up at a garage sale. I use it more than any other blade, and it never disappoints.


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