# Anyone know anything about Browning BAR II?



## simi-steading (Sep 27, 2012)

Curious if anyone knows much about Brownings BAR II or Safari?

I've got a chance to acquire one, as soon as the guy decides on a price.. He also has a Remington Model 700 he's deciding the price on.. 

Both of these are in 7mm Rem Mag.. .I'm more interested in the Browning, since it's not a bolt.

I know for me, this gun is overkill for deer hunting in WV, but I figured it could be a decent barter item. It also has a 4x scope on it. I know some times they have been used as sniper rifles, but I'm sure those had been heavily modified.. 

Are these guns as accurate as a bolt gun? Are they pretty fool proof as far as reliability?

Anything you can tell me about them?


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## dkhern (Nov 30, 2012)

the bar is a good gun. 7mag is loud. if it has a boss it is really loud. throws brass. generally not in the accuracy class with 700 rem. 1-2" at 100 yds.


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## simi-steading (Sep 27, 2012)

I found a person I work with that has a BAR II... he said they're not tack drivers, which was part of what I was wondering about. I had a feeling they weren't real consistent. He said his is about 3-4 MOA at 100 yards.. 

Really loud don't bother me... but not accurate isn't something I want.. 

I think instead of considering that gun, I'm going to find out exactly which model 700 he has and consider it.. I'm looking for something with a single MOA or less..


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## 1shotwade (Jul 9, 2013)

Some of the 700's had a problem with the safety. I'd research it good before buying.


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## simi-steading (Sep 27, 2012)

Thanks... I didn't know that about the 700's.. I'll look into that.


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## lonelytree (Feb 28, 2008)

I have never handled a Browning that I would pay for. That goes for most of their too.

I don't like 7MM much either. Price ammo.


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## simi-steading (Sep 27, 2012)

I love my 7mm Mauser... fantastic trajectory on that, so I figured the Mag would only be that much more flat.. 

After talking to someone I work with, he said only consider the Belgian made Browning if the price is right, since it's the only one that holds much value.. but even then, it's not something you want to take out for very long distance since the MOA is so much.. 

As far as price.. for plinking, you can get Privi 7mm rem mag for a buck a shot, but yes, if you buy the good stuff to hunt with, it gets pretty pricey fast.. 

I can shoot up a lot more ammo price wise when I take out my SKS.. that thing is just too fun and shoots so fast, you can go through $100 of ammo before you've even stopped to think about it.. .


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## Gray Wolf (Jan 25, 2013)

I've got a BAR in 30-06 and like it.


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## GREENCOUNTYPETE (Jul 25, 2006)

the 700 safety issue people are generally referring to is the trigger , and as far as i know an adjustable drop in trigger fixes the issue.

but I am not sure anyone that had an accidental discharge could prove that their trigger had not been worked on to lighten it.


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## Roadking (Oct 8, 2009)

Remington over Browning, on most items.
Just my $0.02

Matt


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## simi-steading (Sep 27, 2012)

I'm still waiting on the guy to get back to me on the prices. I'm starting to have some second thoughts about either of these guns... mostly because for the extra price per round for a somewhat odd ball caliber... It's not much more of a gain over 30-06 trajectory wise, but with more kick... and I'd never get a shot over a couple hundred yards... 

We'll see though.. Maybe his prices would make them a hard to pass on deal... I can always use them for barter, and guns seldom lose value.. 

We'll see...


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## GunMonkeyIntl (May 13, 2013)

I used to do warranty work for Browning. I can't tell you that the BAR/MKII is a dog, but I've never kept one long. I've never shot one that was terribly accurate, and they do have some durability issues. The action bar guides, for one, are prone to breakage, and the current aluminim-receiver ones are prone to washboarding in the raceways. Too, the gas system does take some adjusting (despite what some will tell you, the gas system is adjustable) to match your load - meaning you kind of need to settle on particular load, or get good at tuning it - and hope it doesn't come out of tune on its own.

You mentioned a point in favor of the BAR was that it is not a bolt-action, which I take to mean that you are not a fan. I'm not here to change your religion, but my recommendations will always skew-bolt. They're more solid, reliable, and accurate than any other platform. The practicality of a bolt action wins out every time in my mind. 

The perceived Remington 700 safety issue was mostly the creation of a CNBC show that was really just an anti-gun hit-piece with the 700 as its road-kill. Remington put out a repsonse after the show that they had responded to CNBC's requests with evidence that every "faulty" safety that they ever had the chance to inspect, malfunctioned as the result of either improper maintenance or adjustment- which, of course, never made it into the story. When you have that many more of your model of _anything_ out in the public than any of your competitors, you are bound to have more complaints than them as well.


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## simi-steading (Sep 27, 2012)

Don't get me wrong.. I have no issues with a bolt. I prefer a bolt... If I want accuracy, I'm grabbing a bolt gun.. I do like the fun factor of a semi though.. something about being able to let off a few big rounds in a second or so has it's thrills.. but as you stated, semi-autos just usually aren't all that accurate as a whole.. I've only got one semi-auto, and all the rest of my guns are bolt, so that's why I was thinking another semi might be nice.

I am still at that crossroad of the 7mm mag being an odd ball load that isn't really that much of an improvement over a 30-06. If I go with one of these 7's, then I'm adding one more caliber... I would also be adding a new caliber if I was to pick up a 30-06, but I'm not as worried about that because a 1903 is on my shopping list... I will eventually find one I find affordable... so if I were to add a 30-06 before I find the 1903 I'm looking for it won't be that big of a deal..


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## GunMonkeyIntl (May 13, 2013)

Nothing wrong with a 7mm Mag but, if you're not hot to have one, then I think your gut is telling you everything you need to know. 

A .30-06 is pretty much indispensable, and every gun owner should have at least one. If you're shopping for an '03, try to find the A3 variant. You don't have to deal with the receiver heat-treat/serial number checking, and the longer sight radius makes for a much more accurate/practcal rifle as-stock. 

Semi-autos certainly have their place, and there are plenty of accurate ones out there, but big, powerful calibers really belong, in my opinion, in the stronger bolt platforms.


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## simi-steading (Sep 27, 2012)

Yeah.. I'd probably go for the A3 for the reasons you say, but I'd like an A1 for the historical factor, and of course we all dream of finding a true A4...


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## Jolly (Jan 8, 2004)

Want accuracy?

I'll guaranty this gun will shoot MOA out of the box (and so does the company):

http://www.berettausa.com/shop-by-department/big-game-hunter/guns/tikka/

The T3 Lite may just be the ultimate inexpensive West Virginia deer gun.


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## haypoint (Oct 4, 2006)

I always thought, "loud doesn't bother me" until I shot my Browning 7mm with the BOSS on the end of the barrel. I love the accuracy, but it'll blow out your ear drums! At the range, sighting in with my 3-10 power scope, when I shot it, everyone set down their rifles and looked around. Must be 5 times louder than anything else. The BOSS has "blowback holes" that reduce recoil, but that also combs your eyebrows in noise
So, understand that when shopping for a rifle, when you buy a Browning with a BOSS, you will be using ear protection every time you want to shoot it.1/2 inch groups at 100 yards with factory ammo.


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## simi-steading (Sep 27, 2012)

Those Tikka's are nice. I've actually looked at one before. I just kind of have a hard time paying for a new gun when used are usually cheaper.. 

Loud at the range does get you some attention.. Funny how compensators at times can seem to make a gun so much louder.... I don't doubt though the 7mm mag is quite a bit louder than a 308 or similar.. it's a lot bigger case, and a little longer barrel than usual, so it stands to reason there's more bang for the buck so to say..


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## Jolly (Jan 8, 2004)

simi-steading said:


> Those Tikka's are nice. I've actually looked at one before. I just kind of have a hard time paying for a new gun when used are usually cheaper..
> 
> Loud at the range does get you some attention.. Funny how compensators at times can seem to make a gun so much louder.... I don't doubt though the 7mm mag is quite a bit louder than a 308 or similar.. it's a lot bigger case, and a little longer barrel than usual, so it stands to reason there's more bang for the buck so to say..


I understand.

I've had pretty good luck over the years with the Savage bolt actions. Most will shoot right around an inch, or less, especially if you adjust the trigger and free float the barrel. If you don't find a 7mm magnum, you can twist a .270's tail enough that the bullet won't know the difference.


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## simi-steading (Sep 27, 2012)

I've got a 7mm Brazilian mauser that shoots some really tight groups, and also a 6.5mm Sporterized Swed Mauser that shoots sub MOA with some nice Spitzer I've got... ... then I've also got a Winchester 88 in 308 that seems to group them really close, but I haven't gotten to take it out for more than some plinking to see what it will really do....

So, basically, I've got a few really tight shooting guns... but to me, you just never can have too many really accurate guns... 

I'm still on the hunt for a really nice 1903... I had a friend that had one that had been sporterized by someone that really knew what they were doing, and at 100 yards both of us could punch three rounds into a single hole on a really still day... So, I just kind of got a real shine to those.. .I put quite a few hundred rounds through that..


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## lonelytree (Feb 28, 2008)

Jolly said:


> Want accuracy?
> 
> I'll guaranty this gun will shoot MOA out of the box (and so does the company):
> 
> ...


I have a Tikka T3 Lite in 30-06 LH and it is awesome!


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## FarmboyBill (Aug 19, 2005)

My KNG unit in Kans had a BAR. It was issued to every new recruit, and was passed down to the next as soon as he came in. I had it for a month or so. Course, it was an artillery unit so we still had the M-1s in 67/8. I don't remember anything about it other than it weighed around 17/18lbs, had a bipod and a sling, and was a pain to deal with. never shot it, and I don't think I ever saw it shot. It was a simi auto, but ive been told since that they could be made to fire full auto. Don't see how that would work, as they had a small clip 10 round, maybe 20.


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## GunMonkeyIntl (May 13, 2013)

FarmboyBill said:


> My KNG unit in Kans had a BAR. It was issued to every new recruit, and was passed down to the next as soon as he came in. I had it for a month or so. Course, it was an artillery unit so we still had the M-1s in 67/8. I don't remember anything about it other than it weighed around 17/18lbs, had a bipod and a sling, and was a pain to deal with. never shot it, and I don't think I ever saw it shot. It was a simi auto, but ive been told since that they could be made to fire full auto. Don't see how that would work, as they had a small clip 10 round, maybe 20.


The Browning (gun company) BAR and the Browning (designer, John Moses) BAR really have nothing to do with each other. The modern BAR (which is the subject of this thread) is a commercial hunting semi-auto rifle. The military BAR was a light machine gun of an entirely different design. Browning (the gun company) really was just trying to capitalize on the legacy of the military Browning Automatic Rifle when they named their current product after it - two entirely different beasts.


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## FarmboyBill (Aug 19, 2005)

LIGHT my gas! That thing was heavy after lugging it around awhile. Hence the sling strap. AND TALL. Bout like Danl Boones Rifle in highth.
Aas to this being about another type rifle, Didn't know.


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## Rollochrome (Apr 9, 2012)

GunMonkeyIntl said:


> I used to do warranty work for Browning. I can't tell you that the BAR/MKII is a dog, but I've never kept one long. I've never shot one that was terribly accurate, and they do have some durability issues. The action bar guides, for one, are prone to breakage, and the current aluminim-receiver ones are prone to washboarding in the raceways. Too, the gas system does take some adjusting (despite what some will tell you, the gas system is adjustable) to match your load - meaning you kind of need to settle on particular load, or get good at tuning it - and hope it doesn't come out of tune on its own.
> 
> You mentioned a point in favor of the BAR was that it is not a bolt-action, which I take to mean that you are not a fan. I'm not here to change your religion, but my recommendations will always skew-bolt. They're more solid, reliable, and accurate than any other platform. The practicality of a bolt action wins out every time in my mind.
> 
> The perceived Remington 700 safety issue was mostly the creation of a CNBC show that was really just an anti-gun hit-piece with the 700 as its road-kill. Remington put out a repsonse after the show that they had responded to CNBC's requests with evidence that every "faulty" safety that they ever had the chance to inspect, malfunctioned as the result of either improper maintenance or adjustment- which, of course, never made it into the story. When you have that many more of your model of _anything_ out in the public than any of your competitors, you are bound to have more complaints than them as well.


That pretty much says it all...


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## FarmboyBill (Aug 19, 2005)

Sorry. I was scrolling down here and saw where I said we had M1s. We might have had a few, but we mostly had M-14s


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## simi-steading (Sep 27, 2012)

GunMonkeyIntl said:


> The Browning (gun company) BAR and the Browning (designer, John Moses) BAR really have nothing to do with each other. The modern BAR (which is the subject of this thread) is a commercial hunting semi-auto rifle. The military BAR was a light machine gun of an entirely different design. Browning (the gun company) really was just trying to capitalize on the legacy of the military Browning Automatic Rifle when they named their current product after it - two entirely different beasts.


Yep.. if this had been an old military BAR, I wouldn't even be asking.. it would have been bought..


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