# The Rimfire Alternative



## Jolly (Jan 8, 2004)

.22LR to be precise.

Here's the rules of the game:

1. Ballistics as close to a .22LR as possible.
2. Chambered in modern, affordable rifles.
3. Long case life.
4. Extremely efficient and economical to reload.
5. Ability to be accurate with cast bullets.

What rifle, cartridge and load would you pick?


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## mustangglp (Jul 7, 2015)

5.7 x 28 FN I don't about the cast bullets but it should be able to be down loaded it's starts off about the same as a 22 mag.


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

22 Hornet is available in several factory rifles


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## mustangglp (Jul 7, 2015)

The case life for the 5.7 and the ease of reloading will beat the hornet. Savage makes a rifle for the 5.7 and cartridges are easy to find for less then 20 a box of 50 .


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## alleyyooper (Apr 22, 2005)

Since you put down long case life I think your talking reloading.

I have a Speer # 11 reloading manual and a friend has the #12 manual Speer calls them red loads. In those manuals they list reduced MV reloads for just about every 22 center fire round made. Just pick one 
Speer starts with the 22 hornet, 52gr bullet h110 powder, MV 1866 to 2096. Plus some others
Remington 222 45gr bullet, sr4759 powder MV 1540 to 1961 there is load data up to 70gr bullets for it.
the Remington 223 is not listed in the Speer manual for a reduced load but you can find several on the net with *key word reduced loads for a 223*.
Remington 222 mag, list range from 40 gr to 70 gr gr bullets, speeds from to 2096. powder sr4759.
Winchester 225 list range from 40gr to 70gr bullets speeds from 1659 to 2039.
22-250 list range from 40gr to 70gr bullets sr4759 powder speeds from 1641 to 2002
220 swift list range of bullets 40gr to 70gr bullets sr 4759 powder speeds from 1631 to 2000

I have experience with a Ruger 77 22 hornet with a 52gr spire point bullet at 1866 FPS on squirrels and it does a great job from 25 to 100 yards. 

I also have experience with Ruger 77 220 swift with a 50gr spire point bullet at 1669 on squirrels from 50 to 110 yards.

Kimber, Winchester, CZ, Savage, Remington and Ruger all at one time chambered a rifle for some of these cartridges.
They all work well remember to get some range time and figure drop for way out. I sight in for 50 yards with these reduced loads.
Have fun.
** reloading cost runs from about 6 cents a round with the light hornet load with 9gr of powder up to about 9 cents for the swift with the medium load and 70gr bullet. I personal would stay with bullets from 40 to 55gr for squirrels.


 AL


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## alleyyooper (Apr 22, 2005)

*For 223 only.*


*[SIZE=+2]CHART A -- GOPHER LOADS
[/SIZE]*_Reduced Charge Loads for the .223
_Using a 37-Grain Calhoon Double HP Bullet *[SIZE=+1]800X[/SIZE]* *[SIZE=+1]Blue Dot[/SIZE]* Powder Charge Velocity Powder Charge Velocity 3.0 gr
4.0 gr
10.0 gr
11.5 gr 1,250
1,350
2,900
*3,125 4.0 gr


14.0 gr 1,275


*3,240 
Using a 42-Grain Calhoon Double HP Bullet *[SIZE=+1]800X[/SIZE]* *[SIZE=+1]Blue Dot[/SIZE]* Powder Charge Velocity Powder Charge Velocity 3.0 gr
4.0 gr
10.5 gr 1,170
1,270
*2,850 4.0 gr

13.0 gr 1,165

*3,000 
**MAX LOADS
Velocity*: In feet per second
*Test Rifle*: Remington 700 BDL Varminter, 24" barrel, LC brass, CCI 400 Primer



 Al


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## Texaspredatorhu (Sep 15, 2015)

I would go with a 223 for the only reason that getting the cases is easy and cheap. There are so many bullet selections out there it's not even funny. I have loaded them with trail boss to go sub sonic and suppressed and accuracy suffered dearly to the tune of 2-2.5" at 50 yards, from a rest. The rounds weren't any better from a bolt gun. Reloading 223 is always cheap if your going with standard bullets cases can be found everywhere for good prices. I think sierra came out with a mag friendly 85 grain bullet now too.


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

It seems many have overlooked the first rule:



> Here's the rules of the game:
> 
> 1. Ballistics *as close to* a .22LR as possible.


That would mean bullets not much over 40 grains, and velocities generally less than 1500 fps.


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## Texaspredatorhu (Sep 15, 2015)

Bearfootfarm said:


> It seems many have overlooked the first rule:
> 
> 
> 
> That would mean bullets not much over 40 grains, and velocities generally less than 1500 fps.


The biggest issue you will face with trying to be economical is it limits your cases. If you use a large case and a small volume of powder you run the risk of lodging the bullet. My load for subsonic 223 is enough to cycle the gun and get the pill out of the barrel. There's too much empty case volume and it will rob you of accuracy and also pressure to unseat the bullet. Trying to stay with 22lr ballistics in an economical center fire is half way dangerous and in the end probably not that economical. My subsonic 223 loads are purpose built and it is for nothing more than predator hunting at night. Suppressed and low flash make follow up shots a breeze. Not practical for home defense because they might decide to not come out the end of the barrel, to each their own. Good luck in your venture.


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## GREENCOUNTYPETE (Jul 25, 2006)

22tcm would be a good option and the case is made from 223 brass and the volume very small

22 hornet also a good option 

219 zipper would be fun but not entirely practical the case is fairly large but probably wouldn't matter much when using bullseye , unique or something similar 

but 223 seems like since just about every one has one and brass is very easy to acquire
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?109705-BullsEye-Powder-in-223-rem-Plinking-load

with bullseye or unique would cost not much more than the primer and the cast bullet a penny for powder 

http://noebulletmolds.com/NV/product_info.php?cPath=24_114&products_id=934

a 45gr flat nose bullet at 1200-1400 fps would be sure to be a squirrel thumper 

if we deviate from 22 cal to 30 cal I have a load already , my bunny buster 90 gr swc Lee tl314-90swc I size them to .311 roll them in alox and load over 2.7gr tightwad 

they hold about an inch from my 30-30 at 25 yards with iron sights 

I also worked this up for 30-06 with 3gr of tight wad but didn't test them as much 
with these small charges in a rimless cartridge you can set the shoulder forward with the power of the primer if you drill out the flash channel with a 1/8 drill and mark the case head with a file for light charges only the shoulder doesn't set forward


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## alleyyooper (Apr 22, 2005)

Stuff I posted up is published in a few reloading manuals. No need to worry about squibs if you follow the recipes. Speer is not going to leave them selves open to a law suit by not testing their published loads. 

The 223 load I posted up is found on the internet, My self I would take it with a grain of salt. But with 22rf ammo prices and being able to find decent stuff there is a lit of interest in 22 center fires reduced loads. 

 Al


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## GREENCOUNTYPETE (Jul 25, 2006)

now if you have a can the 30 cal loads would really be useful they are only moving about 900 fps but hit with twice the weigh and only a few hundred fps less than a 22lr 

a 40gr 22lr at 25 yards that had a muzzle velocity of 1250fps is 134fpe
a 90gr 30 cal at 25 yards with a muzzle velocity or 900fps is 159fpe and started as big around as the 22 hoped to get with expansion.

"gallery" or "Guard" loads have been round for over a century it was common for guard units to cast and load rounds for their 1903 rifles that allowed them to be used for practice on the indoor ranges at the local national guard building they could keep familiar with their service rifles shooting reduced size targets and light loads that shot to the sights at indoor range lengths. 

these cast loads are made with soft lead much like wad cutter rounds in pistols often the lead could be recovered from the end of the range , smelted and recast right back into bullets with very little loss over and over again making the primer and small charge of powder the only expense as the brass was left over form full power ammo use in annual qualifications and lasts in many cases 50 or more loading's at these very minimal pressures.


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## Texaspredatorhu (Sep 15, 2015)

alleyyooper said:


> Stuff I posted up is published in a few reloading manuals. No need to worry about squibs if you follow the recipes. Speer is not going to leave them selves open to a law suit by not testing their published loads.
> 
> The 223 load I posted up is found on the internet, My self I would take it with a grain of salt. But with 22rf ammo prices and being able to find decent stuff there is a lit of interest in 22 center fires reduced loads.
> 
> Al


For the most part I do agree. However if the individual is incompetent and lacks attention to detail they can still have a squib. Reloading even with published data can be dangerous and the publishers state they assume no responsibility for that reason. For instance an inexperienced loader may take published data and over crimp a reduced load and stiff have one hang in the barrel. Experiance is the biggest factor. Just because you may or may not be comfortable with it someone else may be.


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## alleyyooper (Apr 22, 2005)

Seems like a bunch of negativity on reloading reduced loads.

*"However if the individual is incompetent and lacks attention to detail they can still have a squib."*

Now why can't that happen with non reduced reloads? 

You still have the negativity on reloading in general?

 Al


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## Texaspredatorhu (Sep 15, 2015)

alleyyooper said:


> Seems like a bunch of negativity on reloading reduced loads.
> 
> *"However if the individual is incompetent and lacks attention to detail they can still have a squib."*
> 
> ...


I have no issue with reloading reduced rounds I have them in 223 to get subsonic. I know the inherent dangers of it and don't get stupid on the trigger because I know what has the potential of happening. Generally your squibs will take place on an undercharged load, not necessarily a reduced load but an incompetent reloader not minding themselves. I don't have negativity towards reloading, I reload everything I shoot no matter how cheap at the store, I produce quality rounds tailored to my firearms, that's the purpose of reloading.


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