# Harbor Freight 45 watt kit battery?



## farmerted (Dec 21, 2012)

sorry. don't answer. can't delete.


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## wy_white_wolf (Oct 14, 2004)

The kit is not big enough to supply that kind of power.

If you limit it to running 8 hours a night that is 1000WH.

That means a solar array of about 800 watts for your location since it has an average of about 1.5 hours solar insolation in December using an MPPT charge controller. http://www.gaisma.com/en/location/saint-louis-missouri.html 

If you want to run it for 12 hours then about 1200 watt array.

WWW


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## farmerted (Dec 21, 2012)

sorry


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## Dixie Bee Acres (Jul 22, 2013)

All the inverter does it converts power from DC to AC, and as far as I know, you generally lose a little power through the inverter anyway.
In any case, I agree, you don't have enough solar panels to run a heat lamp.
Figure a heat lamp is 250 watts, a 45 watt panel wouldn't even turn it on. The panels charge the battery, so if you are pulling 250 watts + from the battery, putting 45 watts back into the battery won't cut it.
Also, 45 watts is probably max wattage in perfect conditions. Low sun light, partly cloudy day, etc, you might only be getting 20 watts of power from that kit.


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## wy_white_wolf (Oct 14, 2004)

Dixie Bee Acres said:


> All the inverter does it converts power from DC to AC, and as far as I know, you generally lose a little power through the inverter anyway...


Inverters only see rated effeciency when ran close to max power under continous operation. Run a 100 watt load on a 1000 watt inverter or most likely you have more energy wasted then you're using.

Look at it this way. You have a 1000w inverted rated for 95% effeciency. That's only 50 watts wasted. But at only a 100 watt load it's still wasting the same 50 watts. That means you're running effeciency is 66.6%, not the 95% as addvertised.

Farmerted - 

You willing to spend 3 to 4 thousand on this? That's about what it's going to take.

WWW


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## farmerted (Dec 21, 2012)

sorry


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## 12vman (Feb 17, 2004)

*I need to run one heat lamp, 125 watts overnight for my little chickens..*

Let's figure just one 8 hr. nite..

8 x 125 = 1000 watts. Conversion factor through an inverter from 12v.d.c. to 120v.a.c... Times 10... 10,000 watts @ 12v.d.c. (Not including any loss factor)

That figures to ~834 aHr. Multiply that by 4.. (25% discharge limit for a battery).. 3,336 aHr. in battery!

Now we're going to charge that battery with 45 watts of panel..

45 watts divided by 17.. 2.65 amps of charge during great conditions. Let's figure 4 hrs. of good charge time.. 10.6 amps collected, or 10.6 aHr. (Per Day)

In just one nite, you used 834 aHr. If all is good, you can collect 10.6 aHr. in one day. It would take ~79 days to bring the battery back to full charge.. (Figuring great conditions every day) And, that's not using the system for anything else..

Yep.. If ya have enough battery but ya gotta replace what you use. Not science, just fact..


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## Dixie Bee Acres (Jul 22, 2013)

Ok, if you insist on trying this, any 12 volt, 24 volt, or even 6 volt, preferably deep cycle batteries will work. All in how you wire them, ie, series or parallel.
Please try it out if you feel you might be able to accomplish your goal. Post up details of your final set up and your results.

But I still don't see where putting 45 watts of power over 4 or 6 hours into a battery will allow you to pull 250 watts of power over 10 hours out of said battery. I mean, sure, it could work if you had 36 batteries and spent 2 weeks letting them charge up, just to run the light for 10 hours one night every two weeks.
Otherwise its like trying to get 10 pounds of sugar out of a 5 pound bag.
I'm not trying to discourage you from building a solar array or trying to be a wise grits, just trying to let you understand a little more so that you don't get disappointed due to unrealistic expectations.


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## K.B. (Sep 7, 2012)

12vman said:


> *I need to run one heat lamp, 125 watts overnight for my little chickens..*
> 
> Let's figure just one 8 hr. nite..
> 
> ...


I got lost on the need for the "times 10" on the math for this...

If you figure 1000 watt-hours, the overnite load would ~83 Amp-hours from a 12 volt system.

A couple of T105 batteries should work for an overnight run, but they would need be recharged the next day, or the next night would drop them below 50% capacity.

Rather than go with the 45 watt panel, maybe getting a total of 4 T105's that could be rotated out as a pair each day would be a more affordable/practical solution. While one pair was being used overnite, the other pair of batteries could be brought to the house and charged up using grid power (assuming the main house has grid power...)


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## bassmaster17327 (Apr 6, 2011)

farmerted said:


> I found the answer. Please do not respond. I tried to delete this thread because I don't need a science lesson, but I don't know how. I may need a lesson on how to delete a thread on here though.


I don't believe you can delete a thread. It would be nice if you would have left the original question up so that others could read and learn. Don't get upset if the answers given are not the answers you want, we have all had ideas/projects that did not work out as we wanted.

Edit: My 104 watt kit with a 600 watt inverter would not produce enough electric to run a 60 watt bulb all night


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## Dixie Bee Acres (Jul 22, 2013)

The original question was

What kind of battery does he need to hook up to a Harbor Freight 45 watt solar panel to run a heat lamp (I believe in a chicken coop)

I don't understand why he deleted it out.


OP, you said you found an answer, would you mind sharing with the class what the answer was that you found?


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## farmerted (Dec 21, 2012)

I found the answer via google, a 125 ah marine deep cycle battery available at Walmart for $100.


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## Dixie Bee Acres (Jul 22, 2013)

And Ted, really no reason for the "I don't need a science lesson" attitude. Noone was trying to give you a science lesson, only trying to explain to you why your set up would not work, you know, trying to help you....


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## Dixie Bee Acres (Jul 22, 2013)

farmerted said:


> I've had a lot of good answers on homesteading. I asked the wrong question. I did not intend this thread to turn into a 3 page forum on whether or not i am doing the right thing, just looking for a one word answer, not a "well you should blah, blah, blah".
> 
> There is plenty info on solar power just on this site,* I could research if I cared.* I have the kit, and all I wanted to know was what kind of battery I should use. I found the answer via google, a 125 ah marine deep cycle battery available at Walmart for $100.


wow....

So, are you going to let us know if this works out or not?


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## Jim-mi (May 15, 2002)

The sad part is some people have to learn the hard way.
Then when it miserably fails their great expectations they often come back and become very negative . . ."Oh solar doesn't work"

For sure, pulling 10 lbs of sugar out of a five pound bag is a really good trick.........


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## Dixie Bee Acres (Jul 22, 2013)

I imagine everyone who offered assistance will be considered cocky, know-it-alls too.

This whole thread just rubs me raw.
Ask someone what type of Apple tree you should grow so you can pick oranges to make lemonade, someone tells you that you need to plant a lemon tree, not an Apple tree, and they are told that a science lesson isn't needed.

Some people just can't be helped or saved from themselves.


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## farmerted (Dec 21, 2012)

Jim-mi said:


> The sad part is some people have to learn the hard way.
> Then when it miserably fails their great expectations they often come back and become very negative . . ."Oh solar doesn't work"
> 
> For sure, pulling 10 lbs of sugar out of a five pound bag is a really good trick.........


It's like you can't wait to prove Idk what I am talking about. Well maybe I don't but all I was looking for was a simple answer(got from google) not a lecture. It is already installed permanently. And no I won't be on here proving 10lbs of sugar is half as much or something. This thread is dead.:badmood:


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## Dixie Bee Acres (Jul 22, 2013)

That right there Ted, that is the whole issue. People were trying to help you, and you seem to have a chip on your shoulder, looking for a fight, if you don't hear about rainbows and daiseys. Noone was trying to prove you wrong, they were trying to help you.

Grow up a little...


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## 12vman (Feb 17, 2004)

@ K.P.

*"I got lost on the need for the "times 10" on the math for this..."*

When inverting power through an inverter (From 12 V.D.C. to 120 V.A.C.) there's a 10 to 1 ratio on the current to increase the voltage. 1 amp of current @ 120 v.a.c. is 120 watts. 10 amps @ 12 v.d.c. is 120 watts. Lower voltage, more current to achieve the same wattage. The inverter itself uses a small amount of power to make the conversion and this is considered losses..

Maybe I misunderstood farmerted's original question but I thought he was asking how much battery he needed to operate a 125 watt heat lamp overnight for his chickens..


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## wy_white_wolf (Oct 14, 2004)

farmerted said:


> I found the answer via google, a 125 ah marine deep cycle battery available at Walmart for $100.


Sorry but your research lead you to the wrong answer. 

Lead acid batteries have minimum and maximum charge rates. Actual rate depends on manufacturer but is generally between C/8 and C/12. You HF kit is capable of putting out about 2.6 amps. So that could properly charge a 20.8 to 31.2 AH battery. Using a battery larger than that would lead to sulfication of the battery and an early death.

Looks like you actually do need a science lesson.

WWW


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## Jim-mi (May 15, 2002)

I never did see the original question . . so I am not sure why he got his panties all bunched up and went off in a huff............

Also a sad part is, here yet is another example of someone getting . . .and believing . . . info off the internet. . . . .to be the gossip-able truth . . . . 

Yup. . .The internet is NEVER wrong . . . .


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## K.B. (Sep 7, 2012)

12vman said:


> @ K.P.
> 
> *"I got lost on the need for the "times 10" on the math for this..."*
> 
> When inverting power through an inverter (From 12 V.D.C. to 120 V.A.C.) there's a 10 to 1 ratio on the current to increase the voltage. 1 amp of current @ 120 v.a.c. is 120 watts. 10 amps @ 12 v.d.c. is 120 watts. Lower voltage, more current to achieve the same wattage. The inverter itself uses a small amount of power to make the conversion and this is considered losses..


Thanks 12Vman. I understand the relationship between watts, volts and amps and that there is some loss involved with the inverter. However, I think in your example the "times 10" was applied to the watts incorrectly, resulting in moving the decimal to the right for the calculation of the amp-hrs required.

Apologies if I am incorrect.


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## 12vman (Feb 17, 2004)

Yep.. You're correct. My Bad!


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## BlueFlames (May 28, 2006)

K.B. said:


> I got lost on the need for the "times 10" on the math for this...
> 
> If you figure 1000 watt-hours, the overnite load would ~83 Amp-hours from a 12 volt system.
> 
> ...


And assuming that the HF panel would actually put out 2.6amps continuously it would take a week to charge that battery back up.

I actually have the HF kit hooked to 3 deep cycle golf cart batteries.
Two of them were free brand new so no biggy. But all I have on them is a 36Watt string of Rope led lights as emergency lighting in the garage.

In the winter I still have to charge the batteries with a real battery charger from house power. The HF setup falls quite short of running anything real world. 

I'm thinking it would be a good cell phone charger....
@ $200 bucks that would be rather pricey though.
But I bought it. and have nothing real useful to do with it.


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## genebo (Sep 12, 2004)

Farmerted,

I have been using that solar kit for 5 years to supply lights in the evening for my chickens and barn. I use all LED lights, minimally sized, and a 105 amp hour deep cycle marine battery.

I ditched the controller that came with the Harbor Freight kit and bought a better one that used an improved way to charge the battery that helped the battery last longer.

Last winter I tried to make a heater that would keep the chicken water from freezing. I used a thermoplastic underfloor 12v heating strip under the water container. It drew too much and would run the battery down by morning. I think it draws 1 amp per inch and I used 6 inches. Maybe this winter I'll try again with less heating element.

Heating the chicken house itself can be helped a lot by using your manure. It creates quite a bit if heat in decomposing. I kept 2" depth of manure and some pine shavings. I could feel the heat that generated, even though the chicken house is well ventilated.

My waterers are outside the chicken house. Toward the end of winter I painted the waterers black and moved them to where they would get maximum sun. They still froze overnight, but were thawed by mid-morning.

I set 3 shallow pans near the waterers. Putting an inch of fresh water in each pan from the frost free hydrant provided water for the chickens until the waterers thawed. I emptied the pans each night as I locked up the chickens, so they wouldn't be full of ice in the morning.


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