# Out of the frying pan...



## working-mom (Apr 19, 2004)

and into the fire!!

So awhile back I was asking some questions about off grid and things... Well our search for a reasonable rental in Casper has gone askew as well as buying a place in town. None to be found under a $1000./month... 
Background info:
My BF's mom has told me in the past that her "original" plan when they moved back to Wyoming was to get the 1st house build (theirs) then to build 2 more houses one for my BF's family and one for their daughters family...

Anyone want to guess what we are going to be talking about when we go out to said parents for the 4th? 

So like I said, out of the frying pan and into the fire... no running water, no electricity, and 3 teenagers with out vehicles...
We are brave souls embarking on an interesting journey... 

SO of course I have a lot more questions.

What materials are going to make the best tent stakes for long term staying power in heavy wind if you will? We will be living in them till we can get a camper for winter then we plan on building next spring. There aren't any trees out there, yet either.

Any ideas on keeping the milk and fridge stuff from spoiling? coolers and ice?

I know I have a lot of work ahead of me... fencing, digging a root cellar/storm shelter, clearing land for the foundation of the house to be built, the garden, and and and, I will be the only one home during the day with the kiddoes as my BF and both his parent work during the day(I work evenings) in town.

so yeah any ideas and general advice would be greatly appreciated!
:cowboy:


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## mightybooboo (Feb 10, 2004)

working-mom said:


> coolers and ice?


Block ice in coolers,works very well.


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## working-mom (Apr 19, 2004)

yeah at least for a short term solution till we find a propane fridge or get the camper... 
thanks!


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## wy_white_wolf (Oct 14, 2004)

Welcome back to the area. Summer is usually our least windy time so If your out of the tents and into something else before late fall wind shouldn't be to much of a problem. Tent stakes will matter on the type of soil. Since much of what is around Casper is sand I would suggest augers if you can at least for the corners or west and north sides.


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## Evons hubby (Oct 3, 2005)

working-mom said:


> Any ideas on keeping the milk and fridge stuff from spoiling? coolers and ice?


fridge stuff? whats that? When I pulled the plug and spent the next seven years without running water and elect it didnt take long to adapt to no refrigeration. Cooking habits changed rapidly. Prepare only what your family will eat at each meal, pulling fresh milk from the goats twice daily, and "storing" it until meal time wasnt really a problem for us. cooler full of ice was a holiday treat... far too expensive to contend with on a daily basis. The boy and youngest girl adapted the quickest, the middle girl had a problem the first day or so.... something about how she was not about to squat in the woods. along about the second day, when her face was turning bright red, she too grabbed the shovel headed for a tree just like the rest of us! 

As to tent stakes. If you can find some old locust fence posts you have solved your problem. Cut the posts into sections about two feet or so long. Dig a trench long enough to lay the post down in, about two feet deep, crosswise to the direction of pull, bury the post with a heavy gauge wire or cable wrapped around it leaving a loop sticking out of the ground to anchor your tent to. Its what grandpa referred to as a "dead man" which he put at every fence corner as an anchor to hold the corner post against the strain of tightly stretched woven wire fencing.


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## Jim-mi (May 15, 2002)

Another Yes to the "dead man" . .works


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## mightybooboo (Feb 10, 2004)

One block of ice kept my meat fresh laying on ice in ziplock bags and other things cold for 5 days living in the desert.


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## Ray (Dec 5, 2002)

We had a small wooden box, 2x2, on a rope that held the box just above the water in the cistern. It kept the butter & milk cool when the temp was 100Deg. worked great, sure wasn't an refrigerator.. but fine when you do not have ele.


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## fffarmergirl (Oct 9, 2008)

Sounds like you're in for an adventure!

How many acres are you going to be sharing with your inlaws?


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## Pelenaka (Jul 27, 2007)

I've been lusting after a solar set up offered by a company called groundzero. The package I'm most interested in is their base camp model. It retails for over a thousand. But I'm sure that if your all are handy you could build something simular that isn't as portable. 

My thought was that it would provide power to run a net book, charge my kindle once a month, charge cells, run the light system, and a portable 12 volt ice chest that I found online. This model will actually freeze items. 
Depending on how good we got with scheduling our on grid needs I might be able to also use a 12 coffee maker ect. 

Still planing on wood & propane (camp stove) for cooking along with a solar oven. Having a coffee maker woud be for those times like summer when we'll be eatting cold food all day long except for hot coffee.

My plan was that we could make ice every 4 days, enough to supply our ice box which I was planning on building from scratch. The ice box would be super insulated so I might not need ice for 6 days.
My vintage 1930's ice box that I restored ended up only needing ice every 4 days. 

Yes, you can live without refridgeration but it is nice. You can use evaporative cooling box or pot for a fair majority of your food items like fresh produce.

Good luck & keep us posted,

~~ pelenaka ~~


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## working-mom (Apr 19, 2004)

Thanks all! I appreciate the info after the dead mans! We have some pretty decent "dirt" out there not sandy, more sticky and gooey when wet... so bentonite most likely...




fffarmergirl said:


> Sounds like you're in for an adventure!
> 
> How many acres are you going to be sharing with your inlaws?


I believe there are 160 acres  and I hope they will be my future inlaws lol! 



Pelenaka said:


> I've been lusting after a solar set up offered by a company called groundzero. The package I'm most interested in is their base camp model. It retails for over a thousand. But I'm sure that if your all are handy you could build something simular that isn't as portable.
> 
> My thought was that it would provide power to run a net book, charge my kindle once a month, charge cells, run the light system, and a portable 12 volt ice chest that I found online. This model will actually freeze items.
> Depending on how good we got with scheduling our on grid needs I might be able to also use a 12 coffee maker ect.
> ...


I would LOVE to get my hands on one of the those old ice chests, I've used one in the past and they are awesome!



mightybooboo said:


> One block of ice kept my meat fresh laying on ice in ziplock bags and other things cold for 5 days living in the desert.


This will be be what we will start out with... at least until the "city" girls get used to "camping"


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## nadja (May 22, 2011)

12v. coffee maker. hmmmm it will consume a lot of power which you don't need to do. Instead, go to the "old fashoned" perkalator type. My wife and I have been using them for over 16 years and love the coffee from them. By the way, we also live totally off the grid and have for 16+ years now. Stay away from the all in one units as they are generally all made in China parts, with no real reliability at all. certainly not nearly as much power as they claim. With one 24v solar panel in the 200+ watt range, made in Japan or Germany, and about 4 trojen T-105 batteries, a small charge controller and a decent 24 volt inverter such as an Outback you would have a little avail power to even watch a couple of hours tv at night if you wanted, providing you allow the solar panel to charge batteries most of the day. Or your computer etc.


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## mightybooboo (Feb 10, 2004)

nadja said:


> 12v. coffee maker. hmmmm it will consume a lot of power which you don't need to do. Instead, go to the "old fashoned" perkalator type. .


Spot on the entire post in a nutshell covered you on solar.........,solar electric coffee is a no no supreme,get yourself a nice glass or metal coffee pot for sure.


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## Blu3duk (Jun 2, 2002)

When i lived on 12 volt outside Lyons Colorado a few years back, one block of ice in the ice box kept us good 3-4 days depending on the outside temp and i spose how much we opened the ice box.... key is knowing where you put what and just opening up the door enough to reach in and pull out what you need and not stand there and warm things up.

keeping the ice dry [not standing in water] is also the best way to make it last.

William
Idaho


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## working-mom (Apr 19, 2004)

Thanks so much for all your input!

I have 2 percolator coffee pots so that is no problem. One is a 1/2 gallon one and the other is just a 1 QT. I also picked up a nice 4 QT pressure cooker at a garage sale today with the weight and the gasket is in good working order as well, no cracks for $5... yeah! 

Please keep the ideas and info coming!
:cowboy:


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## nadja (May 22, 2011)

working - mom Sounds like you got your head screwed on straight ! LOL keep it up and in the end you will be smiling. Go for it girl !


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## working-mom (Apr 19, 2004)

OHHHH!!!!!

I forgot to update this lol. We WILL have the walls and roof up and secured before the end of Sept, so says the head carpenter lol!


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## mightybooboo (Feb 10, 2004)

working-mom said:


> OHHHH!!!!!
> 
> I forgot to update this lol. We WILL have the walls and roof up and secured before the end of Sept, so says the head carpenter lol!


:rock:


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## nadja (May 22, 2011)

LOL as a retired framing contractor, you will hear what you want to hear as long as the job is not done. Be preparred for set backs and delays. Better that way. If it goes fast and smooth, be happy !


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## working-mom (Apr 19, 2004)

Things have been going well! yes there have been several sets backs but that is life...  The metal roof went up the end of October after some snow, of course... In the last couple of weeks we have gotten all the windows in and our composting toilet! YAY!! Before that we worked on some of the dry wall. We still have to take care of the wiring but it is in rolls on our bedroom floor so it's only a matter of time. 
The property is my BF's parents and they live out there too.

Thanks to all!


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## grief (Jun 7, 2006)

w-m: What kind of composting toilet do you have?
grief


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## ChristieAcres (Apr 11, 2009)

Just saw this thread, Casper, WY, eh?! I graduated there, from NCHS, in 1982; just lived there four years. Then, moved to Denver, CO, then to Scottsdale, AZ, then to Mountain View, CA, then to multiple cities in WA State, decided I liked the Olympic Peninsula best, so settled here 9 years ago. I wish you the best in your homesteading adventures there!


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## dlskidmore (Apr 18, 2012)

nadja said:


> 12v. coffee maker. hmmmm it will consume a lot of power which you don't need to do. Instead, go to the "old fashoned" perkalator type.


Also consider a french press. Heat the water in any pan and then pour into the french press. I make tea with mine, but they're meant for coffee.


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## dlskidmore (Apr 18, 2012)

working-mom said:


> Any ideas on keeping the milk and fridge stuff from spoiling?


Culture into yogurt or kiefer? Doesn't leave a lot of liquid milk for your cereal, but stays nutritious.


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## dlskidmore (Apr 18, 2012)

Consider a yurt/ger if planning to live in a tent long term. The walls are wool felt and will stay warm in winter with a small wood stove inside. The wooden frameworks can even be modified to meet fussy building codes if the town gives you trouble.

NYC Mongol / Traditional Mongolian Yurt (Ger) Info


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## wind power (Sep 29, 2010)

For anchoring your tent try deadman's or duckbill anchors...the duck bills can be found on ebay or surplus sites for various prices each.
OR You can simply bury some kind of scrap metal tied to metal cable for anchors....old car tires... or better yet old autombile rims work nicely...but if you hate to use the shovel try the duckbill anchors....you simply drive them in the ground....
As to refrigeration...consider a kerosense fired refrigerator....Lehmans or anyone who sells the Dometic brand, kinda pricey but you would have a freezer and refrigeration on about 1.5 gallons of kerosense a week.
Kerosense fired refrigerators are a proven design...they were used on sweltering south Pacfic islands during World War Two for keeping blood plasma cold as American forces pushed the island hopping campagain....no electricity whatsoever is needed

For electricty such as TV's raidos, maybe computer, get a few golf cart batteries, a ghurd controller ( cheap) to keep from ruining your batteries from over charging and a decent inverter to carry the watts you need...maybe a 2-4 solar panels in the 200-250 watt range.

I'm mentioning a few things here by name so as to keep it as cheap as possible....however in the realm of do it yourself energy production I would consider the cheap way for short term....a year or less, but if you plan on living off the grid, then go ahead and spring for the best inverters you can up front...it will save of a lot of cost in the long run....lol it took me about 3 inverters before I learned my lesson and decided to go and buy an outback.....it stays on 24/7 months at a time I almost forget about it until the grid drops power


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## vicker (Jul 11, 2003)

I had access to a friends freezer and froze water in jugs for keeping my food in the summer months. If you can get them, the tree gallon jugs work the best. One jug lasts about a week if you place it in the bottom of the cooler, place your food on top, keep it in a cool place with a blanket or something for extra insulation and don't be opening it all the time.


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## Sanza (Sep 8, 2008)

Do you have a well? If you do you can lower a plastic milk case down the well and use that to keep your foods (glass containers are great) cool and fresh. We used to use an old shallow 10' well and fill the bottom with snow/ice in the winter and with a good lid it would stay frozen all year round.
If you have a creek do the same with the milk case and glass containers and make sure the case is in the coolest shady spot.

There's a thread here by digging about a zeer pot so you could maybe try that. I know I'm going to


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## Calhoon (May 25, 2012)

well , I thought at first this was just an old thread , but I see it's still current.

OK , this lady has survived a winter in Wyoming in a tent ? with 3 teens , all without cars , her man left her high and dry , and she's waiting on bf mom to build her a house and give it to her ... sounds like a real mess . 

You couldn't cut enough wood to keep a canvas tent warm in Wyoming in the Winter , much less live in one . . 

If you have , then you are one tough person , and my hats off to you .


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## dlskidmore (Apr 18, 2012)

Calhoon said:


> You couldn't cut enough wood to keep a canvas tent warm in Wyoming in the Winter , much less live in one . .


I'm sure a pioneer or two survived it. If it was me, there's be a very small tent for sleeping so everyone shared warmth at night, and a larger space for living during the day where you can keep a fire. Biggest challenge would be keeping the snow load from collapsing tents during heavy storms.


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## wy_white_wolf (Oct 14, 2004)

Casper had a very mild winter this last year. I don't remember a single storm that had more than 6" of snow or it sticking around for more than a couple of days.

WWW


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## Sanza (Sep 8, 2008)

Calhoon go back and read the posts again, and maybe it'll make sense the second time. 

_OK , this lady has survived a winter in Wyoming in a tent ? with 3 teens , all without cars , her man left her high and dry , and she's waiting on bf mom to build her a house and give it to her ... sounds like a real mess . _

I don't see how you came to that conclusion, but all I can say is "WOW"


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## mike554 (Jun 9, 2012)

We lived off grid for a while in Md. and we made coffee by pouring heated water through a drip coffee makers filter assembly held over top the pot. It's
just a little slower than brewing it in the coffee maker. I would build a little well insulated shed and live in it before living in a tent, especially in Wy.


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## vicker (Jul 11, 2003)

A great way to make coffee is with a small sack made of four sack type material, with a wire hoop to hold it open and form a handle. Put your grounds in and pour the water through, usually twice, but however you like it.


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## Space Cowboy (Apr 26, 2008)

Don't know how I missed this thread before, but I'm a stones throw from Casper. Born here and moved back 7-8 years ago. Have an off grid in the mountains. Drop me a line if you still need anything.

SC


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## working-mom (Apr 19, 2004)

grief said:


> w-m: What kind of composting toilet do you have?
> grief


Ours is a sun mar excel NE. It has been wonderful so far!


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## working-mom (Apr 19, 2004)

ummm Calhoon you must have been skimming.... tehee.
Anyway, it's hard to believe it has been almost a year since moving out to the property.... 
We have been working on the kitchen, the wiring is done in there and we have most of the drywall up in there. We are going to be taping and mudding in the next week or so. We are currently saving up for a set of cabinets with the sink base that we will install ourselves. I'm real tired or washing the dust/dirt off the dishes before we use them lol. NO well yet... *sigh* we are working with one that my boyfriends parents borrowed from a friend, some kind of one man well digger auger type thing... (I'm not inpressed) anyway there you have that. I make the coffee on the wood stove in a enameled percolator, eith on the wood stove or the little propane 2 burner stove oven combo that my grandmother got us. It has been extremely handy in the hot weather!! I haul ice blocks from town, that combined with the genny running roughly 5 hours a day running the fridge we have been doing much better with the meat storage.  Things are going well, been alot of set backs with vehicles but I think we mights be on a more even keel now so hopefully I can start hauling lots of logs out to be sawn and split before winter. We are taking a much needed break and going to the fair tomorrow. 
I hope everyone is doing well and thank you so much for the ideas!!
:cowboy:


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## ||Downhome|| (Jan 12, 2009)

put some straw under those tents. 

might want to erect a sod house for daily refuge.

opps guess I was skimming too....


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## Alaska (Jun 16, 2012)

I spent three winters in a tent in alaska. As long as the wood stove is cooking heat is not that big of deal. but no sleeping in thats for sure. And all that wood cutting keeps a bod in shape.
Go girl you have the right idea. The kids will look back with great memories some day


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## working-mom (Apr 19, 2004)

thanks for all the ideas!
We have a small trickle solar cell for our genny battery and as long as it's sunny then we don't have problems there, otherwise I charge it with a running vehicle.
We use the wood stove in the winter for heat and cooking but we also have a wall mount propane heater for night time because lets face it, getting up every hour or two doesn't get a person much sleep. We are VERY happy to be out of the tents!! 
Hopefully by next summer we will have enough of the inside of the house finished that we can concentrate on getting solar panels and then save the $$ for a wind turbine. :whistlin:
:cowboy:


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## Ky-Jeeper (Sep 5, 2010)

Check your private messages inbox.

Ky-Jeeper


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## Madsaw (Feb 26, 2008)

Can you still get dry ice in casper? I was out there 11 yrs ago and got some for the cooler on the way home. Just thinking a improvised ice box with the use of dry ice instead of regular ice might work well. I stayed up north east of town in the dunes. Needless to say I much prefered the city water they hauled in instead of the alki well water.
Bob


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## spacecase0 (Jul 12, 2012)

my favorite way to deal with refrigiration is to simply skip it, 
many indian and mexican food dishes deals well with no refrigiration just fine.

my second favorite way is to set up a box frame with cloth over it that is kept wet and keep the entire thing in the shade, if you are in a dry area it works well enough.


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## reubenT (Feb 28, 2012)

Yer making better progress than my folks did 45 years ago. I remember living in a tent the first summer, my mother managed to get a 12x24 cabin built which we later called the shed. (Dad was working full time) We lived in it for about 4 years until a 24x24 house got built with my uncle's help. Outhouse under the pines out back. LOL! that reminds me of the day the dog chased the cat down the hole. Having grown up like that I can live rough now and I don't care.


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