# Generator



## Txyogagirl (Jul 4, 2018)

How do I Know how to buy a good generator? Would you buy used? If not why? What kind of maintenance does a generator need? I’m mainly looking for something to keep my water well going or to power some shoplights.


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## Hooligans (Jul 11, 2017)

Hi Txyogagirl. It all depends on what your needs are, so you need to know the volage and amps required. If you need 120v at 13 amps or less, then the Honda 2000 (now called 2200) is a safe bet for about $1000. 

But there are lots of options and variables. I'll be happy to help you figure it out.


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

First you need to know your peak power requirements in watts.
That will tell you what size to buy.

Used ones are fine, and you can often get good deals on them at pawn shops after major storms.

Maintenance is mostly just a matter of changing the oil, changing the air filter and once in a while the spark plug. The owner's manuals give all the details and can be found online.

If you need 220 volts for the pump you will need a larger model than the Honda EU2200i.


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## Darren (May 10, 2002)

What Bearfootfarm said. What voltage does your well pump require?


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## IndyDave (Jul 17, 2017)

Since you aren't running any sensitive electronics, a run of the mill gasoline generator should be adequate. Another opt-in you might consider is buying from Harbor Freight. I am generally skeptical about most anything Chinese, but after I earned that the HF units are made by the same factory as the OEM Honda, I didn't feel the need to pay double the money for different paint and stickers and I haven't been disappointed.


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## JohnP (Sep 1, 2010)

Sadly, there's no such thing. They're all made in China now and there's no such thing as getting replacement parts.We lived off grid for 6 years and I went through quite a few of them. Most of them would just quit putting out power but still ran good. One wore through a rocker arm due to not enough oil splashing up there. I welded up the hole, ground, filed and sanded it smooth to fix it.

Once you find one, get a new spark plug for it because the ones that come with them are junk. Pay attention to what type of oil they need and don't substitute. Same with gas. If they specify 10% ethanol at most, do it. Certain octane rating, do it.

I like the Champion generators. They run nice and quiet and for a china brand, the company seems to actually care about customers. Good price too. They get good reviews and have a 3 year warranty. The downside is that to exercise that warranty, you call a 1-800 number, not bring it back to the store but I think most things are like that these days.
https://www.championpowerequipment.com/products/generators/portable-generators/
I got mine from tractor supply but home depot carries them too. Tractor supply has some good sales prices on them. Here's links to Champion Genies on Home Depot and tractor supply.
https://www.homedepot.com/b/Outdoor...ors/Champion-Power-Equipment/N-5yc1vZbx8lZ9xs
https://www.tractorsupply.com/tsc/s...rBy:&pageView:&minPrice:&maxPrice:&pageSize:&

As you'll see, pretty much 5 star ratings across the board. Now you just need to figure out which one you need. If you want it to last, and you do, get one that's rated quite a bit higher than you need so that you're not constantly pushing it to it's limits.
Well pumps vary as far as how much power they need. If it's a submersible pump, it's most likely 220/240 volt and you'll need a pretty good size genie. You can't exactly pull the pump out to read the electrical rating but whoever installed it would know, plus you can see what size breaker it runs on which will tell you. Since you'll probably need a pretty big genie, you'll want wheels on it and not all of them comes with wheels but you should be able to buy a wheel kit for it, if it's big. If it's real big, it will come with wheels.
As far as maintenance, regular oil changes and make sure the same gas doesn't sit in it for over a year. You can add something like seafoam to the gas to keep it fresh longer. 
They also make dual fuel units that will run on gas or propane and if you got one of those and never put gasoline in it, just ran it off of propane, you'd never have to worry about fuel going bad or carb gumming up. I don't have any experience with them. I did drive a Chevy truck that ran on propane and it had no get up and go. I see the dual fuel units have a lower power rating when on propane. 
I've got the 3650 watt rated, "RV ready" unit and it's 220/240 volt and quiet. Pretty good deal at $329.00 but it doesn't come with wheels and it's heavy. I have mine mounted to our water trailer and mainly use it to run a sump pump to fill the water tank. Way more power than I need for that but I got that size for when the power goes out. 

Now for running your well; are we talking when the power goes out or an off grid situation. If it's for when the power goes out, you have another consideration. The electric supply needs to be disconnected to use the generator. If not, when the power comes back on, bad things will happen. Plus you could electrocute the power guy who's working on restoring power because you're running power into the electric grid basically. 

The right way to do that is with a transfer switch but they're pricey and they're really meant for a hard wired stand-by generator and those are real pricey, like 4 digit price tag. 

The cheap way to go is to put an outlet in the pump house that the pump would plug into when you have power. (disconnect the power when installing that stuff) You would want it to be the same type of outlet that's on the generator which would probably be an RV style twist lock plug. Then make sure your cord is long enough to reach outside the pump house and to the generator. When the power goes out, unplug the pump from house power and plug it into the generator.


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## Nimrod (Jun 8, 2010)

Generators come in several flavors. If you want one to run 24/7 for years get a diesel that runs at 1800 RPM. If you want one for power outages get a gasoline or propane powered one from a big box store. They carry ones called inverter generators and regular 3600 RPM screamer generators. Inverter generators, like the Honda 2000i mentioned in another post, have a more stable voltage output and are quieter and more efficient that regular generators. They also cost 2 to 3 times as much. Regular generators are noisy and inefficient but they are all you need. I have had a regular screamer 3000 watt since Y2K. It has worked flawlessly all these years although I used it infrequently until last summer when I built a barn on my off grid property.

Look at your circuit breaker box and find the one for the well pump. Is it a 110 volt or 220 volt breaker? What's the amperage? This will tell you the minimum generator you need. All generators put out 110 volts. If you need 220 volts you have to get a generator that also puts out 220. The amperage times the volts equals the watts so multiply the breaker's volts times amps to get the minimum watts you need the generator to be. You may need to go somewhat bigger since it takes more watts to start a motor, like your pump, than it does to run it and your generator doesn't have the reserve to start a motor like the power company does.

If you get a propane powered genny the fuel doesn't degrade over time like gasoline so it's best for long term storage and intermittent use. If you buy a genny that uses gasoline you should only use gas without ethanol in it and you should put it away for long term storage by putting Stabil in the gas and running it empty. When you need to use it just add fresh gas and it will fire right up. Keep fresh gas on hand in a gas can and empty the can into your truck every 3 months and refill.

For Dallas you should be able the use 10w30 oil all year around. You generally don't need to change it unless you have run the genny a lot.

Use a generator transfer switch so the genny doesn't electrocute a lineman and your genny doesn't wind up dukeing it out with the power company when the power comes back on. Hint, the genny will lose.


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## Darren (May 10, 2002)

JohnP said:


> Sadly, there's no such thing. They're all made in China now and there's no such thing as getting replacement parts.
> 
> Small stuff yes. 5KW and up you can get non-Chinese sourced generators.


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## Offgrid48 (Jul 28, 2016)

Hondas are great generators but pricey. You should be able to buy a generator for about $100 per 1000 watts (maybe less). I have had good luck with Champion, Predator and Briggs and Stratton generators, from 2KW, 4KW, 10KW to 12KW


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

IndyDave said:


> after I earned that the HF units are made by the same factory as the OEM Honda, I didn't feel the need to pay double the money for different paint and stickers and I haven't been disappointed.


The fact they are made in the same factory doesn't mean they are built to the same specs and from the same materials.

I've seen Ford, Land Rover, Jeep and Dodge parts all "made in the same factory" but they aren't interchangeable. 

They all are made to match their own specifications and price ranges.


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## IndyDave (Jul 17, 2017)

Bearfootfarm said:


> The fact they are made in the same factory doesn't mean they are built to the same specs and from the same materials.
> 
> I've seen Ford, Land Rover, Jeep and Dodge parts all "made in the same factory" but they aren't interchangeable.
> 
> They all are made to match their own specifications and price ranges.


OThere than the HF being bored out a little more and given a shade more power as the resolution to quibbling from Honda, I have seen no difference in performance or durability. This takes me right back to not paying extra for different paint and stickers.


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

IndyDave said:


> OThere than the HF being *bored out a little more and given a shade more power *as the resolution to quibbling from Honda, *I have seen* no difference in performance or durability.


They aren't the *same*, regardless.
That was the implication of the "same factory" comment.

Unless you've done extensive testing under controlled conditions, what you've "seen" doesn't mean much in realistic terms. 

Without seeing the blueprints you really don't *know* the differences only are "paint and stickers".

It's just the facts.


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## JohnP (Sep 1, 2010)

IndyDave said:


> Since you aren't running any sensitive electronics, a run of the mill gasoline generator should be adequate. Another opt-in you might consider is buying from Harbor Freight. I am generally skeptical about most anything Chinese, but after I earned that the HF units are made by the same factory as the OEM Honda, I didn't feel the need to pay double the money for different paint and stickers and I haven't been disappointed.


I thought Honda was made in Japan. Everything HF is China. Big difference.


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

JohnP said:


> I thought Honda was made in Japan.


They are.
Some are made in India.
Some are made in China.
Some are made in France.
Some Honda products are made in the US.
https://world.honda.com/power/generator/
"Honda produces approximately 48 thousand compact gasoline generators ranging in capacity from 0.6 – 80 kVA in Japan, China, France and India, and supplies them to North America, Europe and various other countries around the world."


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## JohnP (Sep 1, 2010)

IndyDave said:


> All of the small engines I have seen in a good many years were made in China. BFF, as usual, would argue over whether the sun came up this morning, but after having worked with a whole bunch of Hondas in a rental fleet and finding the HF products as serviceable and reliable, I am not paying a premium for Honda. As I said, they were identical in every way I could measure until the Chinese started selling improved versions following Honda's complaints.


and I think he's following me

China just doesn't have the same quality steel alloys it seems like to me. Nor the quality control.


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## JohnP (Sep 1, 2010)

Bearfootfarm said:


> They are.
> "Honda produces approximately 48 thousand compact gasoline generators ranging in capacity from 0.6 – 80 kVA in Japan, China, France and India, and supplies them to North America, Europe and various other countries around the world."


Guess they had to diversify aka start making things cheaper to compete. The downward spiral of global manufacturing.


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## Hooligans (Jul 11, 2017)

My Honda eu2000i is from Thailand. I'll add just one thing to the discussion..

I bought it at a dealer that represents the brand and provides convenient warranty work if needed, as well as qualified service and parts department for the long term. That's worth something to me, personally. More so than just getting the cheapest price from a big box store.

That being said, I've recently been looking at some dirt cheap Firman generators for when I need alot more power for short intervals of time. I'd be happy to hear from anybody that has experience with the Firman brand.

John


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

JohnP said:


> Guess they had to diversify aka start making things cheaper to compete. The downward spiral of global manufacturing.


Many times they do it to reduce shipping and import tariff costs.
The ones made and distributed in Europe are also a different voltage than the US market


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## LT2108 (May 28, 2014)

keep the posts on topic, house cleaning performed


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## Hooligans (Jul 11, 2017)

Got it LT. Thanks.

So does anyone know about the Firman brand?


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## IndyDave (Jul 17, 2017)

Hooligans said:


> Got it LT. Thanks.
> 
> So does anyone know about the Firman brand?


Wish I could help, but until you mentioned it, I had never heard of such a thing.


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## Hooligans (Jul 11, 2017)

Hi Dave. I can't seem to find much online about them yet, except for their own promotional video. But they make a big deal out of having their own factory, instead of contracting it out to a different bidder every year like some do, I guess. 

They have a 3650W with electric start and wheels for something like $429. And that's the Alaska price!


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

Hooligans said:


> Hi Dave. I can't seem to find much online about them yet, except for their own promotional video. But they make a big deal out of having their own factory, instead of contracting it out to a different bidder every year like some do, I guess.


It sounds like they may be Govt subsidized.


> *Intro | Firman Generators*
> As a relative newcomer to the portable power generation industry, some view this *Chinese company* with some skepticism.


https://www.chainsawjournal.com/firman-generators-reviews/


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## IndyDave (Jul 17, 2017)

Here is a review that appears independent yet is all praise.

https://www.chainsawjournal.com/firman-generators-reviews/


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## Hooligans (Jul 11, 2017)

That's a good bit of info there! Thanks to you both.


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## Txyogagirl (Jul 4, 2018)

Bearfootfarm said:


> First you need to know your peak power requirements in watts.
> That will tell you what size to buy.
> 
> Used ones are fine, and you can often get good deals on them at pawn shops after major storms.
> ...


So do I just need to ask my water well guy how many bolts of power my pump takes? Or is that an electrician question? I’m scheduled to have my pump and well completely by feb 7. I’m currently not living there building new construction so I have no clue how many amps kilowatts volts I need lol some of those are all over my head. I do know I’m having a 200amp panel and powering a 1500 sq ft shop and eventually a 2,500 sq ft hm. Hoping to bring in propane but don’t have a clue what that cost either and I called several companies and none will even give me a ballpark so not a clue how to budget it


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## Txyogagirl (Jul 4, 2018)

JohnP said:


> Sadly, there's no such thing. They're all made in China now and there's no such thing as getting replacement parts.We lived off grid for 6 years and I went through quite a few of them. Most of them would just quit putting out power but still ran good. One wore through a rocker arm due to not enough oil splashing up there. I welded up the hole, ground, filed and sanded it smooth to fix it.
> 
> Once you find one, get a new spark plug for it because the ones that come with them are junk. Pay attention to what type of oil they need and don't substitute. Same with gas. If they specify 10% ethanol at most, do it. Certain octane rating, do it.
> 
> ...


Thank you thank you thank you so helpful well my water well isn’t actually in yet we’re set for drilling on feb 7 I gave my Electrican the water well paper bid and he said great didn’t ask no questions except where I was putting my well house. All of this is new construction so I can set it up however I want and I plan to die here lol so it’s ok if I spend a buck more but obviously like to save where I can. Yes the generator is for backup only we have an electric co op I’m not sure how reliable they will be and I don’t really have a choice weather or not I like them bc it’s my only choice. I just got my temporary power pole last Friday and so far everything has been easy peasy. Then again I haven’t really did anything. I have 2 small children and the thought of being without water really scares me. And electric for that matter. We want the well bc it’s the best long term solution why pay for something free. It will recoup the investment in no time. We are planning to light the shop with 2 fans and 4 led strip lights I believe they are 4 ft each. Ideally in an emergency I would like the generator to power my well pump, keep some of the lights on, keep my stand alone freezer going, and refrigerator. I plan to cook and hot water heater be propane. So basically we could make it alright if we had to. I currently live in the city 50miles from my future home and it’s almost weekly we have power outages and sometimes they last up to 4 hrs every single time I start praying bc I have a freezer full of breast milk and 1/2 steer to last all year. Oncor tells me it’s a fuse they have been saying that for over 1 yr my neighbors have all given up on griping about it. Anyways I don’t really know how to maintain things such as a generator. I have used sea foam before and do use the gas oil mixes in the edger and blower. That’s about it. My husband changes spark plugs in the lawn equipment but I’m not sure if he knows how to do the other maintenance. The propane generator sounds ideal bc we may go awhile with out using it but then again I said it may not have as much power so I’m confused at what would be best. I will look at the links. Thanks again


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## Txyogagirl (Jul 4, 2018)

Nimrod said:


> Generators come in several flavors. If you want one to run 24/7 for years get a diesel that runs at 1800 RPM. If you want one for power outages get a gasoline or propane powered one from a big box store. They carry ones called inverter generators and regular 3600 RPM screamer generators. Inverter generators, like the Honda 2000i mentioned in another post, have a more stable voltage output and are quieter and more efficient that regular generators. They also cost 2 to 3 times as much. Regular generators are noisy and inefficient but they are all you need. I have had a regular screamer 3000 watt since Y2K. It has worked flawlessly all these years although I used it infrequently until last summer when I built a barn on my off grid property.
> 
> Look at your circuit breaker box and find the one for the well pump. Is it a 110 volt or 220 volt breaker? What's the amperage? This will tell you the minimum generator you need. All generators put out 110 volts. If you need 220 volts you have to get a generator that also puts out 220. The amperage times the volts equals the watts so multiply the breaker's volts times amps to get the minimum watts you need the generator to be. You may need to go somewhat bigger since it takes more watts to start a motor, like your pump, than it does to run it and your generator doesn't have the reserve to start a motor like the power company does.
> 
> ...


This is new construction I’m not sure what my well pump needs I just have this to my Electrian and he said ok. Here is a copy of what I’m getting I’m set to have it installed on feb7 my temp power pole went up Friday so I don’t have a breaker box yet. The propane sounds ideal and less maintenance for my family since I can see the generator not getting used often. Would you buy a second hand one?if so what should I check for or how will I know I’m not getting crap.


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## Txyogagirl (Jul 4, 2018)

Bearfootfarm said:


> The fact they are made in the same factory doesn't mean they are built to the same specs and from the same materials.
> 
> I've seen Ford, Land Rover, Jeep and Dodge parts all "made in the same factory" but they aren't interchangeable.
> 
> They all are made to match their own specifications and price ranges.


You make a very good point. In the case of an emergency I rather not risk the chance of it not working that’s why I try to buy most things second hand good condition I generally like name brand but don’t mind used like new condition I think generator are probably like that people use them once for a bad storm then they need money so they sell it at least that’s the kinda deal I’m looking for.


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## Txyogagirl (Jul 4, 2018)

Hooligans said:


> My Honda eu2000i is from Thailand. I'll add just one thing to the discussion..
> 
> I bought it at a dealer that represents the brand and provides convenient warranty work if needed, as well as qualified service and parts department for the long term. That's worth something to me, personally. More so than just getting the cheapest price from a big box store.
> 
> ...


I will pay more for a service Dept like you. Big box store employees don’t have a clue what they are selling. They only read the box and have the same amount of education as me on this topic which isn’t much lol I guess I need to google Honda generator dealer in my area. I’m outside Dallas. I’m sure there is one.


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## Txyogagirl (Jul 4, 2018)

Here is my well info.


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## Nimrod (Jun 8, 2010)

What I can deduce from what you posted is that the well pump is one horsepower (HP) or less and 220 volts. The description specifies a, 12/3 with ground, cable for the well pump. You only need this type cable if the pump runs on 220 volts. One HP equals 746 watts so it uses 746 watts to run. Electric motors, like your well pump, need 2 to 3 times the running watts to start them up so the well pump might need as much as 2238 watts to start up. 
The minimum generator you need is 3000 watts and 220 volts. I'd get a bit bigger just to be safe.


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

If you wire your pump to a plug in outlet, it will make it simple to use a generator without needing a transfer switch. My pump is 120 volts and uses a normal outlet.


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