# Big bottles of PG600 - waste not!



## Caprice Acres (Mar 6, 2005)

I've noticed a lot in my AI studies, people try not to waste extra PG600 by freezing the extra after reconstitution. 

If my research (and memory - I'm not opening my files to check right now, lol) serves me right, a goat dose is 1.5 mls. A 'single' dose bottle is a bit over 3 goat doses. A 5 dose 'big' bottle of PG600 would therefore be over 15 goat doses worth. That's a lot of AI - I don't imagine many BIG breeders do that many girls in one go-round, not to mention us little guys.  

This is especially an issue now, because the single pig dose bottles (which are 3 goat doses each) aren't to be found anywhere this season. Those of us with small numbers of goats to AI might find ourselves buying a large bottle and wasting the vast majority of it. 

Because I've read from multiple sites of folks freezing and using PG600 this way, my idea is to freeze the extra PG600. But, because that would only get you through a second use - even if you do 2 goats the first time and 2 goats the second time (leaving you with 11 other doses or so still wasted), I'm going to freeze individual doses. 

I plan on reconstituting a bottle and using some immediately. Then, I am going to divvy up the extra into single dose vials using 3ml Red Top blood tubes. (Use ONLY RTT, the rest have addetives!) I'll probably put a hair over the goat dose in each tube because there's extra anyways, and it'll be easier to draw up if you put a LITTLE extra in every tube.  

That way, if next time you have 5 goats to do, just thaw 5 vials and use.


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## CaliannG (Apr 29, 2005)

On dosage: Iowa State recommends 2.5 ml as a dose. However, my vet went and did some brushing up on it when I asked her to order me some, and she suggested 1.5 ml for any goat with a history of delivering triplets or more. She said some of the studies she read found that PG600 can lead to multiple, multiple births.


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## Caprice Acres (Mar 6, 2005)

Looked at my document that I used to organize my notes on the process... I have a range listed, 1.5-2.5cc/doe. I think that's because everywhere claims a different dosage, lol.

Wondering if it might not be smarter to give a slightly higher dose to does recieving frozen PG600. With anything frozen, some structural damage is expected simply due to crystalline structure formed by water freezing... messes with some biochemistry within molecules too... Essentially, the damage to the hormone is probably not dangerous, but you are affecting the ability of the hormone to do it's intended job if you damage a percentage of it.  A damaged hormone is simply metabolized and 'recycled' for parts. 

Perhaps when I freeze, I'll do 2ml doses. Safely in the middle, I guess...


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## LoneStrChic23 (Jul 30, 2010)

Anyone know how long it will last in the freezer? I have a friend who froze for 6 weeks and used with no issues......

I will NEVER use more than 5 doses at once.... This year, I only planned on using it with 1 doe, but I think I'm going to try breeding her without it.... Previous owner bred her last year with CIDRs/PG600 & Cystorelin (she has cystic ovaries & needs a bit of help) but I'm going to see if I can just get it done with CIDRs/Cystorelin....

Just dunno if 14 doses will last a year in the freezer 

Anyone know WHY the single doses aren't available? Did they discontinue them or just run out?


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## mpete (Mar 4, 2008)

ok, QUESTION: If the current CIDRS doesn't say anything about using the PG600 or (I think lute?????), what does the PG600 do?


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## Caprice Acres (Mar 6, 2005)

Ensures ovulation. You can cause 'blank' cycles, supposedly. It increases the sucess rate of AI. You can cause them to super ovulate with large doses, however. 

For live cover, I'm not SURE PG600 is necessary, because it has such a high sucess rate. However, if I'm going to go through the trouble of doing AI - and believe me, it's been about 3 years of research and investments to even think about doing it this year - then I'm going to do what I can to get kids, lol.


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## CaliannG (Apr 29, 2005)

The lute prepares their body to cycle and starts the synchronization process. The CIDR ensures a *standing* heat. The PG600 ensures ovulation.

Crystal, they ran out. It seems that the company that makes the stuff was not prepared for half of the homesteaders out there to make a run on their product for their sheep, goats, pigs, cattle, AND horses. I know several deer ranchers that are also using it this year. 

I'll bet they are better prepared next year. 

As for keeping, I think it will store a year in a tube, since the tubes are air-sealed. Especially if you store it in a deep freezer. It is air and the thawing/refreezing process that tends to have detrimental effects on frozen items.


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## lasergrl (Nov 24, 2007)

I was planning on freezing them in pre drawn up syringes.

I did cidr last year on two sheep that are season breeders, and they were bred in February. I didnt have enough pg 600 so they didnt get any. They did each have a lamb, but it was live cover.


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## mpete (Mar 4, 2008)

CaliannG said:


> The lute prepares their body to cycle and starts the synchronization process. The CIDR ensures a *standing* heat. The PG600 ensures ovulation.



so what is the correct dose of the Lute? and how many days is it administered?


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## CaliannG (Apr 29, 2005)

This is the protocol as I have it from Iowa State:

CIDR Protocol as per Iowa State University, Department of Animal Science.


Day 1 
Lute 2.5 ml
CIDR Placement

Day 11
Lute 2.5 ml

Day 12
CIDR Removal
PG600 2.5 ml

Day 13
IN HEAT


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## Caprice Acres (Mar 6, 2005)

This is all off-label. I have a range of 1.5-2.5cc per doe. 

Different places and people suggest different dosages. Different methods for CIDR/PG600 are used sucessfully. 

It is given ONCE. 

Here are the notes I keep on CIDR/PG600/AI: 



> CIDR/PG600 use
> â¢	CIDR is inserted with âwingsâ to the left/right, NOT up/down.
> â¢	Clip the little ball off the end of the string of CIDR to help prevent accidental removal, and paint the tip red with nail polish for visibility.
> â¢	Use non-spermicidal lube for insertion (AI lube works)
> ...


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## CaliannG (Apr 29, 2005)

The difference can be the season. I was told at TAMU that the Iowa Protocol was for in-season breeding, and that you need to go 21 days if you are attempting to breed out of season.


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## lasergrl (Nov 24, 2007)

Is there benefit to using the lute at CIDR placement? I have it so if it helps might as well. Also what is the point of an 11 day dose.
Also anymore word on how well the pre frozen pg 600 is working out for people?


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## CaliannG (Apr 29, 2005)

I did not bother with lute at CIDR placement. It is kind of important to know WHAT the hormones do:

CIDRs release progesterone into the goat's system, telling her body that she is pregnant.
When CIDRs are removed, the huge drop in progesterone mimics the kind of drop she would get if she were going into heat, telling her body that she should prepare to ovulate.
Lutelyse tells her body that she is NOT pregnant, and that she should shed her uterine lining to get prepared to go into heat and breed.
PG600 tells her body, "It's time! Ovulate now and ovulate WELL! We're getting bred!"

I see no reason to give Lute at CIDR placement, since it will just confuse her body. However, it is a good thing to use at CIDR *removal*.

Ask me next year how well the frozen PG600 works.


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