# Rotational grazing/pigs then chickens?



## Fanafarming (May 18, 2012)

Hey Farm Folk!

Anybody have any insight on running my 20 meat birds in the paddock behind my 2 piggies? Chicks will be done by end of June and probably following the pigs for 3 or 4 weeks. Pigs are maybe a couple months old at this point. I have six 25x25 or so paddocks.

Thanks!


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## highlands (Jul 18, 2004)

We do managed rotational grazing. Rather than do segregated grazing we co-graze. 

Our paddocks are a lot larger, acres. With small pens (25'x25') I would be concerned of the poultry getting cornered by a curious pig. We just fence for the pigs out on the paddocks so the poultry can easily stay out of the pig's way and there aren't issues with pigs eating poultry. This may be why some people report pigs eating poultry but we don't get that as a problem.

However, that said, we don't raise meat chickens. I've done it three times and they are not good on pasture, the CornishX we did. I have heard the "Freedom Rangers" are better on pasture. We use Americona/Auracauna(sp?), Buff Orpington, White Orpington, Speckled Sussex, RI Red, NH Red as well as ducks (Pekin) and geese.

Our primary goal with the poultry is to handle pests and stir up the ponds. They do both admirably. They also produce hundreds of eggs which are good food for weaners and growers. We just feed the eggs to weaners and growers as there isn't enough for the bigger pigs on a regular basis.

So, with all that said, if you're using pens I would suggest having the poultry segregated and follow the pigs. Perhaps you can make your fencing pig tight but not bird tight.

Cheers,

-Walter Jeffries
Sugar Mountain Farm
Pastured Pigs, Sheep & Kids
in the mountains of Vermont
Read about our on-farm butcher shop project:
ButcherShop | Sugar Mountain Farm


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## Pogona (Nov 14, 2011)

I've read about people doing that with cattle and layers (Joel Salatin immediately comes to mind). They run the birds 3 days behind the cattle. This gives insects in the cow patties a chance to hatch. The chickens then scratch apart the cow patties looking for the insects, spreading the manure on the field and decreasing the risk of parasites. I'm not sure if it would work similarly for pigs and broilers though. I guess a lot of it would depend on the type of meat bird you have (heritage breeds are better at foraging then modern production breeds).

Hope that helps some. Pogona


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## Fanafarming (May 18, 2012)

Wow! Thanks for responding. Good food for thought. Walter, we're right in Marshfield....just had your bacon this weekend! Lean and tasty. Very nice! We're thinking of having the chickens *one paddock behind* the pigs. All the paddocks will be fenced with 3 strands of electric fence, and the chickens will have a movable electric poultry fence around them(fence in a fence). They are CornishX so they may not be the best at foraging but this is our first go at pigs and chickens so we'll just see what happens. Right now, I'm fine with trying it since nobody has responded saying that this is an awful idea. Any other thoughts are welcome. Walter, look forward to meeting you someday. Keep up the good bacon!


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## heavyrebel (Oct 6, 2010)

Hi Fana, 
We are working on building a chicken tractor for this same purpose. We want to have the chickens raised with the pigs once they are larger, and rotate them in for the 4-8 weeks depending on which breed we acquire next. We hope this will help naturally control the fly population the pigs seem to bring. Our goats and cows have almost no flys, and feel this is from the chickens cleaning the areas really well. 

Best of luck! It sure is fun!


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## highlands (Jul 18, 2004)

Fana,

We tried the CornishX and my wife and kids begged me, "Never again!" after the third batch. I hope your experience with them is better than ours.

Cheers,

-Walter


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## Viking (May 1, 2012)

heavyrebel said:


> Hi Fana,
> We are working on building a chicken tractor for this same purpose. We want to have the chickens raised with the pigs once they are larger, and rotate them in for the 4-8 weeks depending on which breed we acquire next. We hope this will help naturally control the fly population the pigs seem to bring. Our goats and cows have almost no flys, and feel this is from the chickens cleaning the areas really well.


Hmmm...pardon my newbie observation, but we have chickens as well as pigs and I am now considering running the birds in the hog pens for this very purpose. 

I just realized that there are zero flies in the coop or run despite the chicken poop there and I'm guessing the chickens themselves are the reason for this? 

Now I'm excited to throw them in the pens and see what happens...


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## Rogo (Jan 1, 2006)

=== Hmmm...pardon my newbie observation, but we have chickens as well as pigs and I am now considering running the birds in the hog pens for this very purpose. 

I just realized that there are zero flies in the coop or run despite the chicken poop there and I'm guessing the chickens themselves are the reason for this? 

Now I'm excited to throw them in the pens and see what happens. ===


All my livestock roam free on the acreage. No stalls. No pens. I've always thought the reason the pigs don't eat the chickens is due to no one having their own territory.

I've been told that if a chicken flies into a pig pen, the pigs will eat it. Makes sense to me since the chicken entered the pig's territory.

So, the purpose of this note is just a warning to be careful.


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## Fanafarming (May 18, 2012)

Just put chickens into first paddock today. The pigs have been in the second for almost one week now. Put a poultry net inside the electric fence and put the month old chicks in there....within 2 minutes, a chicken walked through the netting! And back....Tightened it up, fed them, and they seemed to be sticking together and not going through the netting. Sleeping now. We'll see what tomorrow holds. Should I put regular chicken fencing inside the poultry net until they get a little bigger? Seems logical. Nothing's easy, is it? Hah!!

Oh yeah, last Saturday the pigs weren't interested in moving to the next paddock at first. In fact, after luring them over there with some food, they finished the food and walked back through the fence to the first paddock! We opened it up again and let them wander over on their own and they have seemed fine all week. Interesting, though. The pigs are fenced in with 2 strands of electric fence.


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## Fanafarming (May 18, 2012)

Any ideas about something to plant as cover crop/potential forage for the piggies when they get back to the paddock after 6 weeks. I think they'll rotate through the 6 paddocks around 4 times before they're through.


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## zephyrcreek (Mar 30, 2012)

Just wanted to let you guys know that I raise 200-700 Freedom Rangers every year. They are awesome on pasture, and I would not even consider any other breed. I do a few CX too for customers that want all breast meat....but I think of them as Frankenchickens. The FR actively forage, run, jump......and act like chickens. They dress out very well, and have lots of meat on their legs unlike the CX. I highly suggest that you give it a try. They do eat and poop alot, but nothing like the CX. I highly recommend them!


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## sassafras manor (Dec 5, 2009)

Zephyrcreek - at what age do you process your Freedom Rangers and at what weight to they dress out at? Also out of curiousity what is the price per chick at those quantities?
Thanks - Matt


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## zephyrcreek (Mar 30, 2012)

With shipping they cost me $1.30 a chick. I order them in hundreds. My goal is a finished processed bird at 4-4.5 lbs as this is the sweet spot for cost per lb. This can be achieved at 8 weeks -12 weeks depending on your management system. My customer base wants grass raised, so we take them out to 10 weeks. The have free choice grain until about 4 weeks old. After four weeks they only have enough feed for 15-20 minutes. They free range all day on pasture. In the evening they receive another 15-20 minutes worth of food. I have very consistent sizes, but occasionally will have 1 or 2 smaller hens. Even though I take longer to grow the out, I go through less feed than if I grow out 100 CX in 7-8 weeks. 

I keep a dozen smaller hens back and breed them to my Americauna Cock for meaty green egg layers. They are actually fairly good layers, and lay XL eggs with lots of double yokers. The egg customers love it. The roos of this cross grow out well for customers that want a more heritage type bird. The hens do need to be on restricted feed if kept back as layers. I do know people that keep make breeding groups and have good results for the first generation of offspring, but more size variation crops up by the second generation.

What I like is they act like chickens.....they just grow a lot faster. Very low mortality rate, usually 99%. I did learn that they need more trough space for feed. If I do not give them enough space to get to food (with the limited amount) there will be alot more range in size. By the time they are adults I have 20 foot of trough space per 100 birds.


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## zephyrcreek (Mar 30, 2012)

They can be processed at 8 weeks if they have more feed and are confined.


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## heavyrebel (Oct 6, 2010)

Viking said:


> Hmmm...pardon my newbie observation, but we have chickens as well as pigs and I am now considering running the birds in the hog pens for this very purpose.
> 
> I just realized that there are zero flies in the coop or run despite the chicken poop there and I'm guessing the chickens themselves are the reason for this?
> 
> Now I'm excited to throw them in the pens and see what happens...


Yes, I think the tractor idea has gone by the wayside, and we are going to just let them range as we do our others. The others, although close to the pig area, seem content in the goat paddock and garden area. Thought of making a walkway for them to the pigs, but figure my goats would use it, too...lol.

I know my pigs would be interested in the chickens, they are a little pushy with me at times, but will try anyway.


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## cooper101 (Sep 13, 2010)

highlands said:


> Fana,
> 
> We tried the CornishX and my wife and kids begged me, "Never again!" after the third batch. I hope your experience with them is better than ours.
> 
> ...


The cornish crosses are just so pathetic. They're about 3 more weeks of lab work away from not even being chickens anymore.

We have 29 of the freedom rangers that will start foraging in the next couple weeks. They're so much more energetic. I can't wait to see how they end up. I like that they actually act like chickens.


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## highlands (Jul 18, 2004)

Agreed. Somday I want to try the Freedom Rangers. Been busy though.


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## sassafras manor (Dec 5, 2009)

Zephyrcreek - what source have you found to be the best for Freedom Ranger chicks?
Thanks


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## cooper101 (Sep 13, 2010)

I got mine from Moyers. I was pretty happy with them. One died, but I think it was smothered. Price was right and their service was good.


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## tom_the_chemist (Feb 25, 2012)

Our primary goal with the poultry is to handle pests and stir up the ponds. They do both admirably. They also produce hundreds of eggs which are good food for weaners and growers. We just feed the eggs to weaners and growers as there isn't enough for the bigger pigs on a regular basis.

Highlands,

Do you feed the eggs cooked or uncooked?

Thanks.


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## Viking (May 1, 2012)

Viking said:


> Hmmm...pardon my newbie observation, but we have chickens as well as pigs and I am now considering running the birds in the hog pens for this very purpose.
> 
> I just realized that there are zero flies in the coop or run despite the chicken poop there and I'm guessing the chickens themselves are the reason for this?
> 
> Now I'm excited to throw them in the pens and see what happens...


Update:

After letting the meat birds scavange in the pens, I could tell a significant difference in the amount of flies. The pigs never messed once with the chickens, and the birds cut the fly population down by probably 80%. I'm not kidding. 

I'd call it a raging success, actually.


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## highlands (Jul 18, 2004)

tom_the_chemist said:


> Do you feed the eggs cooked or uncooked?


Cooked. It doubles the available protien according to studies and also solves binding biotin issue.


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## Copperhead (Sep 12, 2011)

I've done CornishX on "pasture" for 3 years now. It works well with in trampoline wrapped in chicken wire for about 25 birds. We drag it to a new spot in the back yard once or twice a day. . . but if you're going to do the Cornish, expect to supplement their feed. The first two years, we kept them in a brooder for 3 weeks, and in the trampoline for 3 weeks with supplemental (semi-free choice) quality "Grow-n-Finish" pellets. At 6 weeks, they were as big as we could want and bigger than anything found at Walmart. And did I mention, tasted a LOT better than cardboard chicken!

Last year, I used a much lower quality feed -- actually Southern States' Beef Commodity Pellets. They are 13% protein and about 20-30% fiber, but at about 1/3 to 1/4 the price per pound of the quality feed. By 8 weeks, the chickens were still the same size and ready to butcher, but the fiber in the feed helped absorb the nitrogen which kept the chicken manure from burning the grass and greatly lowered the "smell".

I also raised them concurrently with about 25 Rhode Island Red chicks. The RIRs are much more vigorous, even though they grow 1/3 as fast. They keep the CornishX moving and stirred up -- giving the large birds more exercise and making them compete for their food rather than just lounging around the feeder. I would feed them 2x a day with enough feed to last about an hour. Out of 26 CornishX chicks, I harvested 24 mature birds. 

I had a lot of fun this year picking Japanese beetles off my plants, shaking them in a 20oz bottle to stun them, and shaking them out in the trampoline. None of them recovered in time to escape. In fact, my CornishX males were usually the first to greedily devour them -- using their immense size to push the RIRs and smaller females out of the way!

P.S. After butchering the CornishX, the RIR's were big enough to be released from the trampoline to truly free range. In a weeks time, they all were cohabitating with the adult flock at night in the coop except for one small hen who decided she would rather cohabitate at night with my pigs -- who had delightfully cleaned up my chicken carcasses. She was never harmed and after a month moved in with the rest of the chickens.


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## PFS farmer (Sep 25, 2012)

Copperhead said:


> I've done CornishX on "pasture" for 3 years now. It works well with in trampoline wrapped in chicken wire for about 25 birds. We drag it to a new spot in the back yard once or twice a day. . . but if you're going to do the Cornish, expect to supplement their feed. The first two years, we kept them in a brooder for 3 weeks, and in the trampoline for 3 weeks with supplemental (semi-free choice) quality "Grow-n-Finish" pellets. At 6 weeks, they were as big as we could want and bigger than anything found at Walmart. And did I mention, tasted a LOT better than cardboard chicken!
> 
> Last year, I used a much lower quality feed -- actually Southern States' Beef Commodity Pellets. They are 13% protein and about 20-30% fiber, but at about 1/3 to 1/4 the price per pound of the quality feed. By 8 weeks, the chickens were still the same size and ready to butcher, but the fiber in the feed helped absorb the nitrogen which kept the chicken manure from burning the grass and greatly lowered the "smell".
> 
> ...


TRAMPOLINE?? Genius. Love it!


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## Fanafarming (May 18, 2012)

Hey All!

Wondering if anyone has suggestions about what to plant in the paddocks my pigs tore up last season. I'm planning on getting another couple pigs in the same paddocks, so it will just get torn up again. There may be time before I get them the beginning of May, to get something established in the first paddock, but there should be a fair amount of time while they're small to establish something in the 5 other paddocks. Ideas about what grasses the pigs like, don't like, good for 'em, not good for 'em....that kind of thing. Thanks!


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## jstamper (Nov 11, 2010)

Fanafarming said:


> Hey All!
> 
> Wondering if anyone has suggestions about what to plant in the paddocks my pigs tore up last season. I'm planning on getting another couple pigs in the same paddocks, so it will just get torn up again. There may be time before I get them the beginning of May, to get something established in the first paddock, but there should be a fair amount of time while they're small to establish something in the 5 other paddocks. Ideas about what grasses the pigs like, don't like, good for 'em, not good for 'em....that kind of thing. Thanks!


Oats, field peas, red and/or ladino clover, and rape. If you already have some seeds of any kind (grass or garden), then you can throw those in, too.


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