# solar in Oklahoma



## okiemom (May 12, 2002)

Anyone with solar panels installed after a new solar bill will be charged a fee by the electric company for being a producer not consumer of electric. 

Anyone who has solar now will be grandfathered in and wont have to pay the new fees. they say it is because producers are not paying for line upkeep. Oklahoma only pays wholesale rates to solar customers who produce as well

Nice way to encourage people to go alternative. not. I have wanted to get some panels but that is just nuts. most of our coal fired plants are under fire so electricity prices will increase greatly.

Any other states being goofy? what are the advantages for adding solar if people are charged fees for not using enough electric?


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## wy_white_wolf (Oct 14, 2004)

If one is going to use the grid as there battery they should pay a fee for doing so. California and Arizona have already done this. The only real difference is Oklahoma didn't put a set rate in the bill. They left it up to what the PoCo and Rate Commission can work out.

WWW


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## fishhead (Jul 19, 2006)

This looks like another way that the wealthy are using back door methods to eliminate competition. Don't the 800,000 customers (including those with solar panels) already pay a fee or tax to use the grid?

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2014/...010-Koch-Bros-Demand-Tax-on-Sun?detail=email#


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## simi-steading (Sep 27, 2012)

As long as us poor people have two pennies rattling in our pockets, the rich guy will figure out how to part us from them...


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## wy_white_wolf (Oct 14, 2004)

fishhead said:


> This looks like another way that the wealthy are using back door methods to eliminate competition. Don't the 800,000 customers (including those with solar panels) already pay a fee or tax to use the grid?
> 
> http://www.dailykos.com/story/2014/...010-Koch-Bros-Demand-Tax-on-Sun?detail=email#


Those without solar did pay for the grid infrastructure as part of there normal rate. Why should they pay an increased amount because solar users is not paying for there usage of the grid infrastructure?


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## wy_white_wolf (Oct 14, 2004)

simi-steading said:


> As long as us poor people have two pennies rattling in our pockets, the rich guy will figure out how to part us from them...


Yep. Only the rich can afford to put solar on their homes and make the poor pay for it through increased rates and tax subsities.

WWW


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## Horseyrider (Aug 8, 2010)

wy_white_wolf said:


> Yep. Only the rich can afford to put solar on their homes and make the poor pay for it through increased rates and tax subsities.
> 
> WWW


Wow, really? :huh:

We're not rich, but we have solar. It took two separate phases to do it but now it's done, and we produce about 130% of our previous use. 

I feel it's unfair to cast aspersions on such a wide group of people. Rich? We are comfortable, but we've been frugal and saved well, and reap some of the benefits of being careful with our money. We're not making anyone else pay anything, whether they're rich or poor. 

We use the power company for a bank, and they buy from us for the same price they sell it. Retail. Dollar for dollar, and kilowatt for kilowatt.

We do pay a small fee for use and maintenance of the lines. I think that's only fair. Their infrastructure is aging, and it's in everyone's best interest if they work well. This way, the cost of maintaining the infrastructure isn't only on those who buy electricity; it's on all those who use the lines.

In our area, anyone who is truly poor can apply for assistance for their utilities; and the utility pays a huge chunk of the cost. My daughter has done it several times; it's hassle-free, and she's treated with dignity and respect. Nobody here has to go without electricity. Who do you think pays for this?


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## fishhead (Jul 19, 2006)

wy_white_wolf said:


> Those without solar did pay for the grid infrastructure as part of there normal rate. Why should they pay an increased amount because solar users is not paying for there usage of the grid infrastructure?


I believe that the solar users are also grid users and are paying to use the grid just like the other users.


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## haley1 (Aug 15, 2012)

Not sure how it is in OK. But in my state you still pay the fees to be hooked up and facility fees which is for the lines etc, I would assume OK. Is the same? If so then this tax is a penalty


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## wy_white_wolf (Oct 14, 2004)

Horsyrider - mind saring who your PoCo is? 

I know lots of them that do charge a base fee that cover administrative (billing, meter reading, etc.) but none before this year that included a charge to cover infrastructure. Right now California and Arizona are the only ones allowed to charge for it.

WWW


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## wy_white_wolf (Oct 14, 2004)

haley1 said:


> Not sure how it is in OK. But in my state you still pay the fees to be hooked up and facility fees which is for the lines etc, I would assume OK. Is the same? If so then this tax is a penalty


Who's the PoCo? 

I'll bet they are only allowed to charge to cover Adiministrative costs. No fee for lines or grid infrastructure.

WWW


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## wy_white_wolf (Oct 14, 2004)

fishhead said:


> I believe that the solar users are also grid users and are paying to use the grid just like the other users.


I would agree that they are grid users too. But don't see how they are paying for it. Please show me where they are.

WWW


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## okiemom (May 12, 2002)

there is also a min. usage fee. even if you have a net 0 balance you have a monthy charge just to be hooked up to the electric ie. upgrades for the infastructure. Just like water etc. there is a min $ amount just to be hookled up even if you don't use it so how is the added fee justified?


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## okiemom (May 12, 2002)

be green save the planet ( hears the battle cry)and when you do we will charge you. I love that the responsible ones and ones who produce for others get hit. If it were not for the horrid heat, humidity, allergies in Oklahoma summers I would chunk it and go all solar.


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## grandma12703 (Jan 13, 2011)

So don't hook into their system. Run on your own battery bank.


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## wy_white_wolf (Oct 14, 2004)

okiemom said:


> there is also a min. usage fee. even if you have a net 0 balance you have a monthy charge just to be hooked up to the electric ie. upgrades for the infastructure. Just like water etc. there is a min $ amount just to be hookled up even if you don't use it so how is the added fee justified?


Everyone I've found prior to this year are to cover administrative costs. Grid infrastructure costs are part of the KWH charge. 

WWW


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## Horseyrider (Aug 8, 2010)

wy_white_wolf said:


> Who's the PoCo?
> 
> I'll bet they are only allowed to charge to cover Adiministrative costs. No fee for lines or grid infrastructure.
> 
> WWW


 It's Commonwealth Edison. On the billing, the only charge is what we have under "Delivery." It's broken down into a Customer Charge of $15.37 and a Standard Metering Charge of $3.32. Distribution Facilities Charge is Zero, and our state Electricity Distribution charge is Zero. Also, Zero for Supply, and Zero for Taxes and fees. We used 638 kWh, and made 994 kWh in this latest billing period. 

If you like, I can give you the breakdown on what Supply and Taxes and Fees consist of.


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## wy_white_wolf (Oct 14, 2004)

Horseyrider said:


> It's Commonwealth Edison. On the billing, the only charge is what we have under "Delivery." It's broken down into a Customer Charge of $15.37 and a Standard Metering Charge of $3.32. Distribution Facilities Charge is Zero, and our state Electricity Distribution charge is Zero. Also, Zero for Supply, and Zero for Taxes and fees. We used 638 kWh, and made 994 kWh in this latest billing period.
> 
> If you like, I can give you the breakdown on what Supply and Taxes and Fees consist of.


Bingo 

Customer charge covers administrative fees and billing.
Standard metering covers the cost of reading and maintaining the meter.
Distribution Facilities Charge and State Electricity Distribution charge would be for distribution and cover the grid infrastructure. So you pay ZERO for maintaining the grid and others have to pay inflated bills to cover the costs of your battery bank.

I really would love for someone to prove me wrong on this topic. It gets argued all the time on another forum I watch.

WWW


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## idahodave (Jan 20, 2005)

WWW try this:http://www.fallriverelectric.com/myAccount/rates.aspx

It's my power company and they bill $36/mo for line and system maintenance.

Dave


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## wy_white_wolf (Oct 14, 2004)

Nice little Coop there. They do operate by a different set of rules.

Looks like the $36 is to cover their lines and nothing outside their system. Would need to see a full bill and the rest of the PSC regs to know. I would like to see more.

I bet is sucks every year that you end up donating power to them too when they clear out the bank. With January being a low production month I bet a few get hit with good sized bills then.

Something I noticed that is different from most interconnect agreements was the recertifying the system every 3 years. Do they inforce that or is it just a technicallity? Usually all you see is after the initial cert that they are allowed to inspect and disconnect if they see anything that has changed or is no longer code compliant. I take that "independent certification" means you couldn't do it yourself even if you have all the credentials.

WWW


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## Horseyrider (Aug 8, 2010)

WWW, I'm surprised and puzzled by the degree of vehemence that you display here. It sounds like you're carrying over an argument that's been discussed on other forums to this one, and bringing some rancor with you. Why does it seem impossible that costs for infrastructure might be shared equitably by those who buy power and those that don't? And why is it so very important to you to be right?

I feel there are bigger issues to get in a twist over; but if this is yours, I will cede to you. I wish you peace, my friend, and sunshine in your days.


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## idahodave (Jan 20, 2005)

wy_white_wolf said:


> Nice little Coop there. They do operate by a different set of rules.
> 
> Looks like the $36 is to cover their lines and nothing outside their system. Would need to see a full bill and the rest of the PSC regs to know. I would like to see more.
> 
> ...


I'm away for a while, but from memory there's a line for the maintenance charge and another for the KWh used times the rate. Nothing else other than taxes.

Can't answer grid tie questions, no solar here. My off grid place is in Montana.

The separate maintenance charges started several years ago when deregulation was a popular topic. Coop needed a way to bill for infrastructure. It's a bite when we leave and only use a few KWh but the bill is $40. Probably paying the equivalent of $0.50/KWh.


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