# bareback pad with safe, usable stirrups



## CraterCove

Is there one? Is there a bareback pad that has enough of a tree to reliably use a girth strap and stirrups? What about what I've seen called a 'Hun pad' they are a little expensive but if they work that's good enough for me. http://www.aussiesaddle.com/products/Saddle/bareback_pad.html

I was tempted by the 30$ pads with stirrups until I started reading reviews.

I am looking for the less weight and comfort of a bareback pad but with the stability of adding the girth strap and stirrups. And don't tell me bareback period is better, that's you opinion and I think the Hun's proved that pad plus stirrup was superior.


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## simi-steading

The link you posted clearly says bareback saddle.. A pad is completely different than a saddle... 

What you linked has plates and a tree, which means it has a frame... that is a saddle.. not a pad.. 

This would be more what you describe.. A pad, with stirrups.. Not a bad price either, however, it has no horn.. If you want a horn, you'll have a frame, which becomes a saddle.. 

http://www.horse.com/item/mustang-f...code=GPHORSE&gclid=CLil24qXpbgCFazm7Aod9WQApg


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## CraterCove

I also clearly asked about the Hun pad with stirrups.


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## simi-steading

http://www.horse.com/item/triple-e-waxwear-bareback-pad-w-grip-bottom/E001653/

Sorry, for some reason they don't like links on the site.. 

Here's what I was trying to get at... it's got a non slip underside, that will stay in place better than a regular pad.It appears to have a cinch on it too... 

I'm not trying to be a smart allic, but what you originally started out asking about and showing was basically a saddle...


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## simi-steading

Sorry.. I didn't get that far down.. I only went about half way down your page.. 

From the reviews on the pad I posted, it looks to be well liked, and it's not near as thick as the pad you are looking at. It's also a bit cheaper..


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## CraterCove

simi-steading said:


> Sorry.. I didn't get that far down.. I only went about half way down your page..
> 
> From the reviews on the pad I posted, it looks to be well liked, and it's not near as thick as the pad you are looking at. It's also a bit cheaper..


Have you used either of these products? Let me rephrase my entire . (I am trying to ask the opinion of people who may have used or know someone who does use bareback pads with girth straps and stirrups to try and find one that works well. The cheaper bareback pads seem to have stirrups that fall off when any pressure is put on them once in the saddle. It is not necessary that the stirrup be sound enough to use for mounting, though I would prefer it. I want the stirrups to be present for assistance in balance and movement when atop the horse. 

What I am looking for, specifically, is empirical data. Thank you.


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## Molly Mckee

IMO there is no safe bareback pad. The problem is not so much the stirrups come off, it's that the saddle turns and rolls under the horse. I have not seen the bareback saddle you posted, but they way it seems to be built I would think it would slip much more easily than a true saddle.

I can't see any reason to take the risk with that "saddle", you can buy a great used saddle for what they want for it.


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## simi-steading

No, I haven't used either. I do know people who use the thinner pads similar to like the one I posted, but with no chinch strap. My brothers daughter rides with something similar to one of the soft saddles like in your link. She rides for therapy, and she seems to be more comfortable and rides better with one of the soft saddles.

I've never known anyone to use a thick pad like the Hon. Most people I know who ride bareback don't use pads, and only the people I've known to use pads typically ride with a saddle.

I've only ridden with saddles a few times.. I don't like them... I have problems with my tail bone, and a saddle makes it worse.. Even an open frame style.. 
I prefer strictly bareback. I find it easier to stick to the horse and control it than using a blanket or pad... 

I'm sorry I can't help you more, but I pointed out a pad with strap and stirrups that has a lot of good reviews, and is similar to a pad that someone I know uses, and is a cheaper option... That's the best I can do.. I wish you well in your search.


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## Teej

http://www.valleyvet.com/ct_detail....ferralID=8712e6da-e975-11e2-9389-001b2166c62d

Well, I stared at this in the catalogue for a couple of months before I ordered it. Most people are against bareback pads with stirrups, but I must say this one seems pretty sturdy. I just got it last week and have only done a trial ride on it but so far I love it!

I did not mount using the stirrups because I had them up too high to even reach (I'm short, the horse is tall and where the stirrup hangs while on a saddle stand is not where they hang when placed on a chubby horse LOL). Once on I placed weight in each stirrup - no slippage. Used stirrups for a while during the ride and we walked, trotted, backed, snaked, and did some sharp turns - no slippage. The horse I was using it on does have good withers though so that might make a difference.


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## CraterCove

I have extracted the exact pictures for the product I was looking at, maybe that will help as now I really don't know what people are talking about when they post. I am not really looking for a 'soft' saddle instead of a 'hard' saddle. I am looking for the most connection with the least amount of material yet still retaining the epically awesome technology of stirrups.


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## CraterCove

Teej said:


> http://www.valleyvet.com/ct_detail....ferralID=8712e6da-e975-11e2-9389-001b2166c62d
> 
> Well, I stared at this in the catalogue for a couple of months before I ordered it. Most people are against bareback pads with stirrups, but I must say this one seems pretty sturdy. I just got it last week and have only done a trial ride on it but so far I love it!
> 
> I did not mount using the stirrups because I had them up too high to even reach (I'm short, the horse is tall and where the stirrup hangs while on a saddle stand is not where they hang when placed on a chubby horse LOL). Once on I placed weight in each stirrup - no slippage. Used stirrups for a while during the ride and we walked, trotted, backed, snaked, and did some sharp turns - no slippage. The horse I was using it on does have good withers though so that might make a difference.



That one looks really nice. Thanks for the review! It really helps me narrow my search.


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## simi-steading

Here.. I'm sorry, but it looks like the second link I posted still isn't working.. So here's a link to the same pad on Amazon.. The reviews of this pad on the first site I posted are really good. There are 17 reviews of it there, and it rates over 4 stars.. some even say they can mount the horse using the stirrups, but I'd never attempt that... but, it does say it must stick well.. 

http://www.amazon.com/Triple-Waxwear-Bareback-Bottom-Khaki/dp/B005LUTM62

Here's a picture..


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## Molly Mckee

If you "need" stirrups, you need a tree. Good riding instructors will have you at some point ride without stirrups, including posting. If you loose your balance when you are riding with a bareback pad you tend to put more weight in one stirrup than the other and your "saddle" rolls under the horse.


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## CraterCove

Thank you Molly.


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## GrannyCarol

You might look into the Natural Ride by Colorado Saddlery. Many people really like this. It isn't strictly a bareback pad, it is a tree, but its basically a plastic tree with a pad and rings for cruppers and breast straps. It comes with stirrups too. Many people find they can use it for mounting. 

http://naturalride.com/


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## CraterCove

Perhaps what I am looking for is more a 'minimal' saddle than a bareback pad. With the tree that product you are recommending, Granny, will distribute rider weight but it doesn't have all the extra weight a saddle usually has. And 200$ doesn't seem all that bad to me.

Thanks for the link and info!


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## beccachow

Natural Ride. Granny Carol is correct on that vote. It will not slip due to having an actual tree, but is light as a feather and has usable stirrups and tight girth fastenings.


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## offthegrid

I have a Cashel Soft Saddle (Original) like this one:










It is very light and soft; I don't use it because a) it has a western girth and I'm really bad at tightening it; and b) I was really wanting more of a bareback pad v. a "soft saddle"....so it's more structured than I had wanted. (I originally bought it when trying and failing at saddle shopping for my TB mare and figured this would at least be comfortable even if we didn't use it a lot.)

I have not tried mounting from the ground with the stirrups. Not sure how that would work. Here is an interesting review:

http://lorienstable.com/services/fitting/cashelsoftsaddle/

Cashel has a newer version that I suspect has some upgrades but I have not really looked at the differences.

If anyone was interested in trying it, I'd give mine away for the cost of shipping...I never use it and it just collects dust in my barn. I think it's a size small but would need to double check.


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## Grey Mare

Riding bareback vs riding with a bareback pad is better than having something that has a girth but does not give you the stability that a saddle would give. If your concerned about the weight of a saddle, I have Cashel ladies trail saddle that is very light weight, I have issues with my shoulder so this is really nice to ride in. 

As what others have said, you pose a larger risk of sliding and not having a safe seat when using a bareback pad. IF you ride in one, you need a good riding foundation as well as know where your center of balance is so not to be moving around, shifting, and causing general irritation to your horses back. If your a heavier rider, again, a saddle would be much better. 

Is there a reason why you don't wish a saddle?


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## CraterCove

Bareback riding without a pad is for short distances/ times only. It's more for training the horse in case for some reason I just need to hop on and go at some point in time. It's uncomfortable for a horse to be ridden at any length without something that takes the pressure off their spine and distributes the rider's weight more evenly. I understand all these things fairly well. 

I am looking for a saddle alternative for one because we live in Florida and I believe every once counts in the heat we can get here. There are training reasons, I want to be able to train them to sit with and without stirrups, with and without the stability added by the pommel and cantle and so forth. Again, also for the purposes of training the horse under varied circumstances. 

I'm also looking for a traditional saddle... but these ponies (they are PoA, very sturdy strong ponies) are _fat_ right now. I am concerned that if I get them something that fits now it won't fit once they are more trim and in better shape. Also two of them are coming to me preggers, so again I am concerned with fit over the long haul. Kind of looking for varied equipment to use over time. 

This is just one avenue and one I don't have much experience with. I've always just used a traditional western saddle except for short rides occasionally. True bareback certainly does my tailbone no good and I can feel that it does my horse's spine no good either.


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## mariaricarto

I had a Parelli bareback pad that I altered to put stirrups on. I rode all over the place with it. Couldn't mount using the stirrups. A couple of times I came off when the horse made a sudden turn and one stirrup got all the weight. Mostly I rode with my feet out of the stirrups. Also I used peacock stirrups only. The bareback pad was very comfortable for me and the horse.


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## Molly Mckee

I would look for a older, but good deep seated English saddle. Maybe a jumping saddle with good knee rolls. Light weight, secure, and I've seen them for less than $100.00. 

Riding bareback is a good way to improve your seat. A good rider isn't going to hurt a horse in good condition by riding bareback. 

Our youngest DD worked as a mounted ranger in the Bob Marshall Wilderness when she was in college. She was hired as trail crew but one of the rangers didn't show up the first day and they asked if anyone could ride and wanted to transfer. She volunteered and found out they didn't have enough saddles so she would be building trail by hand the first two weeks, until her saddle came. Not being a fool, she compared riding a horse around NW MT to carrying and using hand tools in the mountains and said she could patrol riding bareback. Her boss told me later that he expected her to give up in an hour or two, not having seen her ride. 

She did her first rotation bareback, rode the 30 miles into the ranger station and about 20 miles a day in pretty rough country bareback. She and the horse both were fine. Now she does no remember not riding, she has been since she was very little, and rode competitive trail rides as well as showing. She spent more time on her pony and then her horse than anything else as a kid and is an excellent rider. It is possible to ride bareback for a distance, and one of the reasons she could do it was because she had ridden bareback most of her life - although she has also always had good saddles available.


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## Wolfy-hound

I've used a couple of the bareback pads with stirrups. I never had a stirrup fall off, but they were all but useless as stirrups. Unless you kept exactly the same weight and pressure on both stirrups, the pad would shift.

I tried(did not buy) a pad that had a "grip surface" and it would still shift if your weight pressed on either stirrup, which then would twist the hair coat up underneath the pad, making it uncomfortable for the horse(like putting a saddle blanket on wrong, it can rub the hair OUT).

Anything with a tree should rightfully be termed a saddle, maybe a "lightweight" saddle but it's not at all like a bareback pad.

I never saw any issues with horses being ridden pure bareback. A non-tree pad does not spread the weight enough to bother counting, honestly.

But I never liked riding pure bareback. Like you mention, I like stirrups. The Hun type saddle is a lot like a McClellen type saddle honestly. Of course... that's a tree with stirrups! LOL. 

I haven't seen any true bareback pad that I considered safe to use to mount using the stirrups. But then, I haven't seen every bareback pad either. I haven't seen any of the new 'popular' celebrity products either. 

Good luck.


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## CraterCove

I'm not going to get into the pros and cons of bareback. You likely wouldn't enjoy my opinions on racing, jumping and polo either, lol. A saddle is superior to riding entirely bareback, neither the horse's back nor a human tail-less end is actually designed for what goes on while riding like that. A saddle redistributes weight, makes it better for both parties. I know, horseback riding was done for a thousand years before anything really resembling a saddle was invented and as noted I see great value in using it as a training tool for horse and for rider.

I've gotten some good input here and it gives me directions to venture in. In the end I'll probably end up actually trying a number of different options, some suggested right here  before deciding what is actually going to be best for us and the horses. It's all learn as you do, right? :happy:


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## Grey Mare

It was a general observation of your comments. I was curious if you do have any formal training from someone who was a trainer who showed you what to do, with horses, or if you have someone you work under.


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## CraterCove

I work under my horse. There is no greater teacher. You may take what you like from my comments. 

I have a lifetime of experience with horses, since before I consciously remember. I am a student of both canine and equine psychology and physiology as their close association with humans throughout the centuries fascinates me and assists me in my understanding of human society from it's dawn to our modern era. 

I have, in past, worked with trainers... no one special. I wonder from whom the native Americans first learned their style of horsemanship? Besides the technical texts, that is where I learn as well-- from the horse itself. 

I love to have it insinuated that because I have a question about something I am inexperienced with, such as bareback pads or minimal saddles, I am a hack, a novice or that my 'learning as I go' is harmful to the horse. Thanks, you sure helped me to remember why I have stayed out of the horse community for so long.


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## Wolfy-hound

No one said you were a beginner, you just jumped right to an assumption. If you're going to instantly assume that every person is insulting you, then it's hard to have a conversation about your questions and the issues or subjects you want to talk about.


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## offthegrid

Wolfy-hound said:


> No one said you were a beginner, you just jumped right to an assumption. If you're going to instantly assume that every person is insulting you, then it's hard to have a conversation about your questions and the issues or subjects you want to talk about.
> 
> .


To be honest, I can see why the OP is being defensive; he/she was responded to in a pretty aggressive/contentious way in the first 6-7 posts. 

This is not a new question -- what are the pros and cons of stirrups on a bareback pad/lite saddle. Certainly there are models for sale that suggest that stirrups could be used -- his/her question is: does anyone have experience and what is your review?

Personally, I don't love bareback riding but it depends on the horse. My TB mare will NOT trot if you are riding bareback. She is very sensitive -- does not like much grooming at all, certainly not anything like a shedding blade; is sensitive to bugs; is very sensitive to your leg. If your tailbone is on her spine - forget about it. My APHA mare (aka *fatty*) is far more forgiving of bareback riding - but she also *likes* hard grooming (e.g. shedding blade) and is generally far less sensitive. 

I prefer not to ride bareback because I also don't love the feeling of spine on my seatbones/pubic bone...thank you very much. As I said, my chunky paint mare is a pretty easy ride but no way - on the high-withered TB. The padding of a bareback pad/saddle goes both ways.

Certainly if there was such a thing as as lightweight, stable, sturdy bareback saddle/pad...I'd love to try it out. Who wouldn't?


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## Grey Mare

I was just curious is all. There is nothing wrong with being a novice when it comes to horses. We all had to learn somewhere as you said, I just would hate to see you get hurt or you inadvertently hurt one of your horses, that is why I asked. 

As for the Native Americans, you can't find a better set of horse people than they are. I am proud of my own Native American heritage, my skill as a rider and my animal husbandry skills as well. Several friends have asked me to come doctor their horses when the vet couldn't do it or the animal became mistrustful of them. I have a touch when it comes to animals, even my boss had a good laugh one morning when we were trying to get a loose steer back in the pasture and the owner wouldn't go near it with a bucket of feed...I did and got him back in.

I just have seen green horses and new owners get into complications due to not knowing enough. Would hate to see that happen to you. And yes, by not knowing enough of how to train and what equipment is best, you can sour or put a horse backwards in their training.


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## Wolfy-hound

I didn't think it was a aggressive post to comment about saddles vs bareback vs pads. But then, I'm not reading every post as "How can this be offensive to me?" either. 

I'll bow out. Apparently opinions aren't wanted unless they are expressly what the OP wants to hear. It's a public forum and when you post a thread, anyone who wants to can respond to it.


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## CraterCove

Grey Mare said:


> I was just curious is all. There is nothing wrong with being a novice when it comes to horses. We all had to learn somewhere as you said, I just would hate to see you get hurt or you inadvertently hurt one of your horses, that is why I asked.
> 
> As for the Native Americans, you can't find a better set of horse people than they are. I am proud of my own Native American heritage, my skill as a rider and my animal husbandry skills as well. Several friends have asked me to come doctor their horses when the vet couldn't do it or the animal became mistrustful of them. I have a touch when it comes to animals, even my boss had a good laugh one morning when we were trying to get a loose steer back in the pasture and the owner wouldn't go near it with a bucket of feed...I did and got him back in.
> 
> I just have seen green horses and new owners get into complications due to not knowing enough. Would hate to see that happen to you. And yes, by not knowing enough of how to train and what equipment is best, you can sour or put a horse backwards in their training.



Indeed! What tribe are you? My family is Cherokee of the reservations in Oklahoma-- though my most immediate ancestor who was half (my great grandfather) was the most cruel to animals I have ever in my personal experience seen. Then again, I think that's because his mother was secreted away before he was born and kept away until they decided the baby (him) wasn't too 'Indian looking' to be kept. Horrible stuff isn't it? 

I am definitely a proponent of 'natural horsemanship' but I supplement that with technical knowledge. But I came here to ask specifically about something I don't know much about. I am a traditional cowgirl. Western all the way. I want to know if there is something better and I was asking to find people with experience to tell me that experience. I am always seeking more knowledge. I am always seeking new sources.

Heh, I have to laugh. Even an injury, or perhaps especially an injury? Can be a great learning experience.... as long as no one ends up dead. I have been magnificently fortunate in that I have only suffered the common minor injuries ones gets around horses... a crushed foot, a mashed finger. This, however, is because I have observed others and learned from them how not to be. I have, in all areas of life taken the step back and watched how others failed first... that doesn't mean I don't fail in my own ways... but my failures are more advanced! lol

Wolfy: Please, I am not cocky and I have no chip on my shoulder. The very first person to respond to this thread, firstly did not read for comprehension but decided it was necessary to instruct me in 6th grade vocabulary! I think I handled that well enough... like a high horse who doesn't need to prove their position. People tend to forget themselves when giving advice in the horse world. They get defensive, they get tense, they get real snitty and they decide they have the right to answer questions that were obviously not directed to them because they have no experience in the area asked about. I have no chip... I am sifting (as ever) through the crap to find the real fertilizer, the real knowledge that will help me grow! :nanner:


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## CraterCove

Again to Grey Mare: I swear... _swear_ I can hear a horse. I can also 'hear' when my eldest son stops listening and the gray noise sets in. Do you find it translates from people to horses to other animals? I wonder if there is a genetic factor involved.


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## Molly Mckee

Wise people have learned from the mistakes of others. If you have ever seen a bareback pad roll under a horse with a rider on it you would not be so casual about learning from a mistake. IMO they should not be used with stirrups. The girl I saw almost get killed was a very good rider and her horse tripped in the show ring. Her Arabian costume was on a bareback pad. She and her horse had won many championships--it was completely an accident.


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## bergere

Think riding bareback, just depends on the horse's conformation.
Dyfra has an inny spine... good luck finding it. Well, padded on either side, big shoulders and no withers.
Great Bareback horse, and I do ride her with a Best Friends bareback pad. Think it is a great way to find tune ones balance.
No stirrups though. 

Seen two people in the past, when their bareback pads with stirrups rolled under their horse's... one was hurt badly, other broke her neck. 
My other mare...
Has a TB like spine, withers and much more narrow. Won't want to ride her bareback either.

I also ride Dyfra in a Sensation Hybrid Saddle... is a treeless saddle. Nice and secure, and it has stirrups. 
Cool thing about this treeless saddle, is it is very light and has tons of D rings. 
So if you go on a long trail ride, you can bring things with you.

There are only two bareback pads with stirrups I would recommend.
Is the Natural ride...
And the
Christ pad, they have a set up, where you can safely use stirrups.
http://horsedreamimporters.com/bareback.php


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## Grey Mare

CraterCove said:


> Again to Grey Mare: I swear... _swear_ I can hear a horse. I can also 'hear' when my eldest son stops listening and the gray noise sets in. Do you find it translates from people to horses to other animals? I wonder if there is a genetic factor involved.


CraterCove...interesting analogy on your description. I don't know if I have ever personally thought about that I can "hear" my horse, for me it is more of a feeling or sense if you will that something is wrong or not quite right. I have had that also with a few very close friends, I just knew when something was wrong and acted upon it. My Grandmother, who was Polish had a 6th sense about many things and it wasn't often she was wrong either. I am very in tune with the spiritual world if you will and yes, I have even did a smudging prayer and used sage around our farm to protect it, as well as my home. There is a hawk feather in my QH geldings stall for protection, long story there of why.

I didn't mean to come off sounding know it all, I just would hate for you to get hurt and don't our elders pass on to the young their knowledge so to teach them? I found your comment that you work under your horse...when I think that it is more our horses want a leader, someone they can trust so they look to us to guide them and set boundaries. 

My grt.grandparents were Blackfeet Indians, mainly coming from the Black Hills of the Dakota's. Definitely tell with me that the look and skin color, as well as hair, I inherited from them.  Course, I am more grey now like my horses but hey...I earned it. HA! I am very sorry of your history in your family, yes, our people suffered greatly at the hands of many, but that is a topic for a pm if you wish. 

And dear heart, at my age, I don't bounce so easily when I hit the ground so I am more cautious and patient when I am with my horses, or anyone else for that matter. I have been kicked for not paying attention, stepped on, nipped at, broken foot, toes, and bruises that sure looked interesting.


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## Irish Pixie

Welcome, CraterCove. You've received some snarky comments from relative newbies to this horse forum.

If you stick around, and I hope you do, you'll find that some posters are more knowledgeable than others and which to avoid entirely. 

There are bareback pads and there are lightweight saddles- my personal preference is something with at least a minimal tree and without stirrups. The bareback pad pictured in post 15 is downright dangerous and should not be used in my opinion.

Have you narrowed down your choices?


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## Irish Pixie

simi-steading said:


> All I will say, is I posted what I did in my first post because the OP started out with a chip saying I don't want to be told this or that..... and then posted a link that started out with saddles... SO, I'm thinking to my self, this person has no clue....
> 
> Some times you need to point out the obvious to finally understand what a person really knows or doesn't...
> 
> I tried to help the OP by pointing out a pad that fit what they were asking for that seems to have a lot of great reviews, so it's not like I wasn't trying to help, but I was saying in my own way, you do seem to have a chip while trying to understand what they were really asking for...


Based on the fact that you posted the most dangerous pad of any linked indicates that you may want to reevaluate your perceived knowledge on the subject.


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## simi-steading

Irish Pixie said:


> Welcome, CraterCove. You've received some snarky comments from relative newbies to this horse forum.
> 
> If you stick around, and I hope you do, you'll find that some posters are more knowledgeable than others and which to avoid entirely.
> 
> There are bareback pads and there are lightweight saddles- my personal preference is something with at least a minimal tree and without stirrups. The bareback pad pictured in post 15 is downright dangerous and should not be used in my opinion.
> 
> Have you narrowed down your choices?


What makes the pad I posted down right dangerous? It has a non slip underside, it has a girth cinch, and has many great reviews, some that appear to be posted by very experienced riders.

Granted, I personally have no experience with it, but it appears to be a lot safer alternative to what the OP posted, that is basically nothing more than a thick pillow held on with a leather strap that goes over it.

I'm not asking be a wise cracker.. I'm asking to be educated since you must have a reason you feel this way about that pad. Have you seen or used this pad? How is it any worse than a pad that has no cinch or no nonslip underside? How is it any worse than a pillow with a leather strap wrapped around it?


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## Lisa in WA

simi-steading said:


> What makes the pad I posted down right dangerous? It has a non slip underside, it has a girth cinch, and has many great reviews, some that appear to be posted by very experienced riders.
> 
> Granted, I personally have no experience with it, but it appears to be a lot safer alternative to what the OP posted, that is basically nothing more than a thick pillow held on with a leather strap that goes over it.
> 
> I'm not asking be a wise cracker.. I'm asking to be educated since you must have a reason you feel this way about that pad. Have you seen or used this pad? How is it any worse than a pad that has no cinch or no nonslip underside? How is it any worse than a pillow with a leather strap wrapped around it?


Do you have any horse experience? I haven't seen any posts here that indicate that you do. It would seem that you might tuck a few years learning about horses under your belt before you start snarking at people asking questions here and just wait for the people who DO know what they're talking about to answer.


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## Irish Pixie

That type of pad has been around since I was a teenager in the 70s and has doubtless been the cause of many ugly wrecks. As others have said there is nothing to stop it from spinning like a top around a horses barrel, nothing. Most of the other pads/light saddles had some sort of tree system even if it wasn't the conventional hard type.

Like I said before my opinion is that no type of bareback pad should have stirrups.


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## simi-steading

Yes I do. But I'm sure not as much as some people on this forum. I've never owned one myself, but I worked on my grandmothers ranch riding for a year working with the cattle, I've worked with friends breaking their horses and taking care of them while they were unable to.... 

I may not be as experienced as a lot of people here, but I've never had an accident, and I've been able to handle and ride horses that others couldn't get near. 

I seem to have a way with horses that has surprised some very experienced friends.... They said I've gotten their horses to do things that they never imagined possible... 

As I also stated though... I don't like to ride with a saddle or pad. I have problems with my tailbone, and a saddle makes it worse, and I don't like blankets or pads because it makes it a lot harder to stick to the horse and control it.

My Niece has been riding for therapy for a birth defect, and has been using a pad similar to what I posted... I'm sure if that type of pad wasn't safe, a place that works with disabled kids wouldn't even think of using them..


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## simi-steading

Irish Pixie said:


> That type of pad has been around since I was a teenager in the 70s and has doubtless been the cause of many ugly wrecks. As others have said there is nothing to stop it from spinning like a top around a horses barrel, nothing. Most of the other pads/light saddles had some sort of tree system even if it wasn't the conventional hard type.
> 
> Like I said before my opinion is that no type of bareback pad should have stirrups.


I know pads without a cinch and without non slip surfaces have been around, but all the reviews on that pad for people who bought it say it doesn't slip like other pads do... 

I guess I'm going to bow out now since I don't have any experience with that pad... I would however NEVER recommend one of the more common pads that has no strap, and doesn't have a non slip surface.. That's just asking to end up under the horse...


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## Irish Pixie

Most therapy places have "walkers" on either side of the horse (at least the certified equine therapy facilities that I've been involved with have) plus another handler leading the horse. I've also _never_ seen stirrups used in therapy.


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## simi-steading

I wish I had some pictures of her... I've seen pictures of her riding without any handlers near... The place she had been at does what you describe, plus they also teach showing, barrel and jumping for the more experienced and lesser disabled older kids... It's not your typical pony petting zoo...


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## Lisa in WA

simi-steading said:


> Yes I do. But I'm sure not as much as some people on this forum. I've never owned one myself, but I worked on my grandmothers ranch riding for a year working with the cattle, I've worked with friends breaking their horses and taking care of them while they were unable to....
> 
> I may not be as experienced as a lot of people here, but I've never had an accident, and I've been able to handle and ride horses that others couldn't get near.
> 
> I seem to have a way with horses that has surprised some very experienced friends.... They said I've gotten their horses to do things that they never imagined possible...
> 
> As I also stated though... I don't like to ride with a saddle or pad. I have problems with my tailbone, and a saddle makes it worse, and I don't like blankets or pads because it makes it a lot harder to stick to the horse and control it.
> 
> My Niece has been riding for therapy for a birth defect, and has been using a pad similar to what I posted... I'm sure if that type of pad wasn't safe, a place that works with disabled kids wouldn't even think of using them..



Sounds like you've been reading a lot of horse books like Black Beauty.


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## simi-steading

Yeah sure... Never read it... Believe what you like... 

Many people have been amazed at how I get along with animals.. I've had too many friends call me Ellie May because I can manage to get near and even handle wild animals and their farm animals others couldn't get near... I've kept a lot of exotic pets over the years... One of the last places I lived was on a hog farm, and the farmer kept cattle there.. He was amazed to see his cattle walk up to me to get scratched... he never could get near them... I've got pictures posted on my Flickr site petting a wild deer, and others standing very near in the background... For some reason animals trust me, and I've been lucky to have that... 

For some strange reason they do trust me.. and because of that, I've been able to work with some very skitish horses that others had problems with... 

Granted, I may not know a lot about traditional ways, but I do know enough to be able to take care of them, and how to get them to do what I want in my own way... 

I had a GF who was out looking for her horse one night in a soup fog.. she couldn't get the horse to follow her or move from it's spot.. I finally eased up onto it's back, and got it started towards the barn. Ended up riding it into the barn and into the stall.. .She about freaked because for one, no one has ever been on it without a saddle, and two, if she ever got it near a tree or post while on it, it would try and scrap the rider off... It never did that with me, and I worked with her and the horse for a few months... She said it ended up being one of the best horses she eve had... 

Maybe the reason I can do things with animals others can't is because I respect them, and never give them a reason not to not trust me... A lot of patience can go a long way... I've seen too many people try and force their will onto an animal... I think this is why so many people seem to have problems working with animals... I'm also not one who believes in using food to train an animal... You need to make things fun and a game for them...


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## Lisa in WA

Good gravy.... I can't see the horses for all the woo. You are a regular horse whisperer.


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## simi-steading

I really don't owe you any explanation... If you met me, and if you saw animals around me, then maybe you would get it... All I know is many people have said they have never seen animals take to a person like they do to me... I never thought it out of the ordinary, until I've really started to watch how animals react with other people and vice versa.....


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## tailwagging

GrannyCarol said:


> You might look into the Natural Ride by Colorado Saddlery. Many people really like this. It isn't strictly a bareback pad, it is a tree, but its basically a plastic tree with a pad and rings for cruppers and breast straps. It comes with stirrups too. Many people find they can use it for mounting.
> 
> http://naturalride.com/


I have an older one. love it for horses but sadly not for my donkey.

CraterCove thank you for posting the HON I just might try that on my donkey!
I planed on getting center-fire rigging from them anyways and just might just get a Hon at the same time =)


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## Irish Pixie

LisaInN.Idaho said:


> Good gravy.... I can't see the horses for all the woo. You are a regular horse whisperer.


Dang woman! I nearly snorted coffee- a warning please. 

Simi-steading- just a friendly reminder, horses are big dumb animals and forgetting that can get you killed.


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## Lisa in WA

simi-steading said:


> I really don't owe you any explanation... If you met me, and if you saw animals around me, then maybe you would get it... All I know is many people have said they have never seen animals take to a person like they do to me... I never thought it out of the ordinary, until I've really started to watch how animals react with other people and vice versa.....


I guess you'll have to take your word for it. 
I'm heading out to clean stalls. I intend to foist my will upon the horses by muscling their heads into halters and grazing muzzles and beating them till they walk to the pasture with me. No woo here. 

One word of warning: the people who know so little that they don't have a clue what they don't know yet....they are a danger to themselves and the horses.


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## simi-steading

Yes, they are big, yes they can hurt you and even kill you, but no, they aren't dumb... .I've seen many people call cattle and pigs dumb too, but they aren't... Animals just think differently than we do, and survival is their main train of thought.. I think that's a huge part of why many people have problems with their farm animals and pets.. they don't realize the rational behind their actions and thoughts, and the animal is smarter than they are in ways... One thing I learned on my grandmothers ranch was how smart cattle can actually be.. My Uncle had worked with them all his life, and the one thing he stressed with me was never underestimate a cow or bull's ability to outsmart you... 

People don't give animals enough credit...


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## Irish Pixie

simi-steading said:


> I wish I had some pictures of her... I've seen pictures of her riding without any handlers near... The place she had been at does what you describe, plus they also teach showing, barrel and jumping for the more experienced and lesser disabled older kids... It's not your typical pony petting zoo...


A certified therapy facility is hardly a pony petting zoo, and "they also teach showing, barrel and jumping" is called riding lessons not therapy.


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## Lisa in WA

Irish Pixie said:


> A certified therapy facility is hardly a pony petting zoo, and "they also teach showing, barrel and jumping" is called riding lessons not therapy.


And we all know that just because someone is giving lessons does not mean they are actually qualified to do so. I've met more unqualified trainers and instructors than I care to say. ANYONE can hang out a shingle and call themselves an instructor.


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## Irish Pixie

LisaInN.Idaho said:


> And we all know that just because someone is giving lessons does not mean they are actually qualified to do so. I've met more unqualified trainers and instructors than I care to say. ANYONE can hang out a shingle and call themselves an instructor.


True, and to add to that a reputable instructor would never ever use a bareback pad to teach. It's just way too dangerous for an older, even intermediate rider on a been there, done that lesson horse.


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## Lisa in WA

simi-steading said:


> One thing I learned on my grandmothers ranch was how smart cattle can actually be.. My Uncle had worked with them all his life, and the one thing he stressed with me was never underestimate a cow or bull's ability to outsmart you...
> .


Call me crazy but working one summer on a grandparents ranch when you were a kid doesn't make you a cattleman. Nor does it give you the experience to think you are a horse whisperer. You need to be careful and not anthropomorphize these animals or you will end up getting hurt.


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## simi-steading

I've been around cattle and horses off and on most my life... I used to work at the county fairs in the livestock pens. I never turn my back on a farm animal.... I will never trust a farm animal. They are wild no matter how domesticated you think they appear... Just never underestimate how smart they actually are. I've also never been hurt other than scrapes and a couple bruises.. . Both sides of my family have been farmers and I've spent a lot of time on their farms, and I've had a lot of friends with farms I've worked on. I spent several years installing and repairing waterers and pumps in cattle yards... 

You seem to know more about me than I know... I don't consider myself a whisperer, and actually hate that term. I just have a way of getting along with animals...


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## Lisa in WA

simi-steading said:


> I've been around cattle and horses off and on most my life... I used to work at the county fairs in the livestock pens. I never turn my back on a farm animal.... I've also never been hurt other than scrapes and a couple bruises.. . Both sides of my family have been farmers and I've spent a lot of time on their farms, and I've had a lot of friends with farms I've worked on. I spent several years installing and repairing waterers and pumps in cattle yards...
> 
> You seem to know more about me than I know... I don't consider myself a whisperer, and actually hate that term. I just have a way of getting along with animals...


From your posts here, I was guessing it was more off than on.
I imagine that several posts from now, your experience will be much vaster than county fairs and a summer at Grandma's. Perhaps you ran the pony rides at the fair?


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## CraterCove

Dearest Simi, don't confuse the animal seeming smart with you not understanding their behavior. lol

Anyway, as I stated, repeatedly... I've never used bareback pads. I've also never lived someplace so dang gum hot as Florida! I was looking for input from people who had experience, not someone who looked at the same pictures I had looked at and come to some conclusion that they are certain is better than my own uneducated conclusion. But some people feel the need to educate people into understanding their superiority. lol Water off the duck's back!

To Grey Mare, thank you, I may come off as cantankerous at times but well... there's a lot of interpretation over the internet, one doesn't get the same feel one does over the phone or in person. 

I have gotten a lot of good input here, even the negative can be good. I appreciate the concerns for safety and genuinely thank you for any concern directed at me personally. I will be careful and I have decided that what I want is not really a bareback pad. Full on bareback seems like the only decent bareback option. What I am looking for is one of those bare minimum saddles to decrease weight and heat I now believe.

Thank you to all contributors, even the ones who appeared to have no value but entertainment.... you know who you are 'cause you're angry I said that! ound:


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## simi-steading

Lisa, maybe if you got to know a person and knew their background and where and what they've done in their life, then maybe you wouldn't jump to conclusions... 

Granted, I'm not a life long farmer, or rancher, or herder or rustler or what ever that makes me any kind of expert, but I've spent a lot of time with a lot of very knowledgeable people working with and around livestock... None of them has ever asked me to leave. They have always asked me to come help because I work hard, and I'm good with animals, and they haven't had to sit and watch over me worrying about me getting hurt or harming their animals intentional or by accident. I'd say that must mean I am good enough for them to trust... 

You seem to know what I have and haven't done... I don't remember spending any time with you..


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## Irish Pixie

The better made synthetic saddles may be an option for you, CraterCove. They are lightweight and you can wash them with a hose.


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## Minelson

CraterCove have you looked into a Bob Marshall Treeless saddle? That is what I use and I love it. Not only is it light weight and easy, the horses love it too! No more sore spots on them or me! I had chronic knee and butt pain for years...now I have none. I feel totally secure in the saddle and never had it slide on a spook. You can use the stirrups to mount easily. I can't say enough good about mine and will never get a heavy, treed, bulky saddle again. I use mine for trail riding. A lot of barrel racers use them.


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## CraterCove

Ooh a hose washable saddle? That actually has a lot of appeal. I'll look at the treeless saddle too. Minelson, so I'm not the only goaty person here in the horse forum!


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## Lisa in WA

CraterCove said:


> Ooh a hose washable saddle? That actually has a lot of appeal. I'll look at the treeless saddle too. Minelson, so I'm not the only goaty person here in the horse forum!



IP is right, Crater. I used to live in AZ and rode trails (even in summer) in a western saddle. Lots of times in a Wintec synthetic. Light, hoseable, and comfy too for the horse and rider. That was the only one available back then...now there are lots to choose from.


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## Irish Pixie

I've heard good and bad about the treeless saddles- they aren't for every horse, if you are a larger person it may not distribute weight as well as a treed saddle, and they don't hold up as well to hard work. I've never owned one so it's second hand information. 

Two of the most popular brands of synthetic saddles are Wintec and Big Horn. I've never owned a synthetic either- I'm kinda a leather snob but I live in the northeast too.


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## Lisa in WA

Irish Pixie said:


> I've heard good and bad about the treeless saddles- they aren't for every horse, if you are a larger person it may not distribute weight as well as a treed saddle, and they don't hold up as well to hard work. I've never owned one so it's second hand information.
> 
> Two of the most popular brands of synthetic saddles are Wintec and Big Horn. I've never owned a synthetic either- I'm kinda a leather snob but I live in the northeast too.


I wouldn't use one for dressage or jumping but for trail riding....heck yeah!


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## bergere

If one is a heavy person, and wants to go Treeless.... StarTrekk would be perfect.
It has high spine and wither clearance and keeps the heavier riders off the horse's spine.

And as said... also depends on your horse's build. 

There are a lot of good name brand treeless saddles. Have done a lot of demo's over the years and have owned a few.

They are very light weight and well made. And yes, a good saddle, is a good saddle and they do hold up well.
Have ridden for years in my Sensation Hybrid and UK Treefree, Treeless saddles. They have been in terrain so steep, Dyfra had to slide down on her hocks... through forest, streams, and salmon and blackberry patches..
They have been used for doing farm work, mending fences, dragging tree branches while riding... 
Also had a StarTrekk comfort... I liked it, very nicely made, but sadly, they tend to roll on very round horses. Great on normal width horse's though.

Here is a good web site to take a look at.

http://www.freewebs.com/alternativehorse/treeless.htm


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## CraterCove

Holy sticker shock Batman! 1600k might be a bit much for me right now with three to buy. However... it's very lovely. I like that they are so confident about their product that they will allow you to test drive it. It lends a buyer some confidence when making a purchase decision like this. Hey... uh anyone want to fund my tack buying power by buying a cross and fish bracelet? lol I shouldn't poor mouth, my husband makes good money but I am a farm wife with a lot of pride and I don't like to dip into the family money for any of my animal ventures. The chickens, goats and ponies, everything involving them except for the vet emergencies comes from money I make between tending animals and children and a home and husband.

I am scouring the internet for tutorials to re-teach myself how to make a rope bosal. I've been caring for other people's horses even though it's been five years since I've owned my own horses. Messy divorce and lots of sordid tales to be had there... I left with nothing but my dog, my cello and my son... and the car I'd had since I was 15. Six horses we had together became all his over night. I'll never be involved with the old style cowboy again-- married me a computer geek after that. More money and less fights over bulldogging cowboy techniques and natural horsemanship.

Whoa... rambling... must be time to sweep and vacuum.


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## 1sttimemom

I think saying bareback riding is so harmful to the horses is wrong. If the rider is decent and not just flopping all over the place the horse should NOT get sore. I have been bareback riding since I was in 3rd grade and am pushing 40 yrs. I very, very rarely ride in a saddle but I have done so and have shown western pleasure, barrels, etc. I have had some basic lessons in dressage as a teen and ridden some parades. I have ridden in all sorts of country, including some pretty rough mountains. I have done a few endurance and competitive trail rides too. The only time I ever really used a saddle was because it was REQUIRED for the compitition I was entered in. I have NEVER, I repeat NEVER had a horse get a sore back from bareback riding even on extreme long rides. I have however seen many horses sored by saddles. 

Now I wills ay I don't know much about the fancy bareback pads with stirrups and sort of "formed" seats. All I ever used was a reg type bareback pad. I upgraded to a machine washable fleece (Coolback brand??) one after wearing out sooo many of the cheaper ones. I also have an older one made from suede but tend to not use it much. The only thing I can say is YES bareback pads can roll and also slide back. That is the major drawback to a reg type bareback pad. I basically just use them to keep my but clean and free of horse sweat. I don't would never use a regular type one with stirrups and never use a handle on one to hold on to for balance. Either balance with your seat or as I am teaching my little girl, grab a handful of mane if you feel the need. If your tailbone is getting sore you are sitting too far back on your buttocks. Your weight should be balanced more with your thighs. You may be muscle sore from bareback riding but yourr tail bone should not be rubbing raw if you are a decent rider. When I was younger I rode ALL DAY LONG this way and never had raw spots or horses with sore backs.


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## CraterCove

I am sorry but the science has convinced me otherwise. No, I do not bow down at the alter of the headless science god however, I find the facts compelling. I might be able to find it or you could yourself but there is a correlation between the evolution of the saddle and a reduction in long term bone damage found in horses. There is archeological evidence that as saddles developed there was a significant change in the amount of chronic damage done to the horses' backs. You are entitled to your opinion but I like to back up my opinion with science when it's actually possible. 

There are also multiple modern studies that have looked into the comparative force and weight distribution when saddles are used and during bareback riding. You can say all the egg heads are wrong because you have a beautiful connection with your horse but... if there's a chance it's true, that you are causing long term harm when there are alternatives why would you do it? I don't like relationships formed in pain myself. But what do I know? Nothing as far as you really know. I'm just text on the internet to you.


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## Grey Mare

Crater....could it be each horse is different? I have ridden bareback all my life, got a horse before I had a saddle. I have seen some pretty sloppy riders in a saddle, where for me personally, riding bareback so much, I have a great perspective where my center of balance is, I have good body alignment as well. Once I am done riding I do brush and cool down my horses and ensure they are properly stretched out.


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## CraterCove

Of course that's possible, Grey Mare. I'm not going to say someone is evil or really bad for doing something I disagree with. I'll sure tell you that I don't agree and that I don't or won't do something but I'll try and explain why. I am certain that bareback is much more comfortable and less stressful for a horse if the rider is good at it and their back is shaped correctly for it... but I can't say that I think there are no long term ill effects, I also can't say that ill effects would show up in 100% of cases though. I just see trends in data, from what I consider to be as reputable a source as one can get. 

Obviously I am not anti bareback! Everything one does with a horse is a calculated risk, for the horse and for you. I'm not going to tell people to stop jumping just because I think it's unnecessarily dangerous for the horse. Everyone has to decide for themselves what fits with their aesthetic. I like to think I bring a balance of science and intuitive/empirical experience to bear when I work with dogs or horses. And if I see solid science that contradicts my thoughts I like to think I take new information well.

I'll admit when I first looked at these ponies I'm getting I took one look at their withers and their spines and thought they would likely be the most comfortable bare back rides one has ever had. But Gah... new style quarter horses (you will have to forgive my prejudice against QH period here ) some of them have razorbacks.


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## CraterCove

Irish Pixie said:


> Attack? Hardly. As for criticizing Pot. Kettle. Black.
> 
> His statement and suggestion wasn't just wrong it was flat out dangerous.


Wait, is Simi a boy? Boy... I need to adjust my internet censors I thought it was a teen or early 20's girl. Or am I missing something else entirely?


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## 1sttimemom

Ummm...Am I missing something because I thought CraterCove was the OP asking about BAREBACK equipment. LOL.


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## simi-steading

I'm a 49 year old guy.... :rock:

And Pixie.. I don't feel my suggestion is dangerous, or any more so than any other suggestions... If you read the reviews on that pad, many say they are able to mount the horse using the stirrups on it, and the pad doesn't slip.... 

Granted, that pad is not meant to use to mount, and it is a dangerous thing to do with it.. BUT, the fact it doesn't slip using it to mount says that it is probably one of the safer pads to use as far as it not rotating you under the horse.. 

I do however feel that using any pad is a danger to the rider. I've spent many many many hours riding bareback, and not one time have I fallen off.. so I must be doing something right, but I'd almost bet you if I tired a pad, I'd end up under the horse...


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## CraterCove

simi-steading said:


> I'm a 49 year old guy.... :rock:


omg! I had a little different image of you in my mind. Sensors adjusted!


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## CraterCove

1sttimemom said:


> Ummm...Am I missing something because I thought CraterCove was the OP asking about BAREBACK equipment. LOL.


I was. The focus of the discussion has changed a little. But all good conversation is fluid. Bareback, in my opinion, is a necessary training tool for horse and rider-- I just advocate moderation. (wish I could get that moderation thing incorporated in my drinking habits)


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## simi-steading

CraterCove said:


> (wish I could get that moderation thing incorporated in my drinking habits)


LOL.. don't we all..


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## Minelson

When using a treeless saddle the pad is very important. I use a Skito pad with mine which distributes weight evenly. I also don't ride for more than 3 hours tops and I am small and not overweight. All things that should be taken into consideration when purchasing a saddle.


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## Irish Pixie

simi-steading said:


> And Pixie.. I don't feel my suggestion is dangerous, or any more so than any other suggestions... If you read the reviews on that pad, many say they are able to mount the horse using the stirrups on it, and the pad doesn't slip....
> 
> Granted, that pad is not meant to use to mount, and it is a dangerous thing to do with it.. BUT, the fact it doesn't slip using it to mount says that it is probably one of the safer pads to use as far as it not rotating you under the horse..
> 
> I do however feel that using any pad is a danger to the rider. I've spent many many many hours riding bareback, and not one time have I fallen off.. so I must be doing something right, but I'd almost bet you if I tired a pad, I'd end up under the horse...


How do you know the reviews are by someone that has actually used the pad you are advocating? How do you know the reviewers aren't clueless newbies that bought it cuz it was cheap?

I'm telling you, point blank, that I could ride anything with hooves when I was a teen and those type of bareback pads slip horribly _because I've used them_. There is nothing, absolutely nothing, that stops them from sliding down the barrel. You can have all the anti slip material on earth and they'll still slip because there is _nothing_ to hold them in place. 

I'm not blowing smoke up your skirt, based on my 40+ years of owning, training, giving lessons, managing large barns, blah blah blah that type of bareback pad is dangerous no matter what reviewers say on Amazon. OK?


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## Molly Mckee

My kids were on and off their horses bareback all the time as were their friends--I have never heard of a horse getting hurt by a bareback rider. I have heard of and seen horses sored by poorly fitting saddles or poor quality saddles, or horses that have been scared by poor equipment. I guess an over weight person that was a bad rider might be able to hurt an extremely skinny horse or one with really bad conformation but other than something like that I think that is something someone made up. Or was afraid to ride bareback and used it as an excuse.

The horse my DD rode miles bareback in the mountains was just a horse, one that the government either owned or leased and nothing special. It had just come off winter pasture and was not conditioned after a 6 month layup. It was not sore, and did 20+ miles most days the rest of the summer. We often rode bareback as kids as well, no sore backs. I'll go with years of experience, not something that someone posted on the net, or some study that supposedly exists. 

You take one of those bareback pads, fitted or not, cinch it tight enough to say mostly in place, put an overweight novice rider on it and you may very well see sores. Of course, an overweight, poor rider is more likely to hurt a horses back no matter how they are riding.


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## wr

We always had one of those old style pads in the tack room when I was growing up and the old rancher would never let us use it because he felt they were dangerous. Being so much smarter than him, I figured I needed to give it a try and found they do slip terribly, even when you recruit a well meaning uncle to tighten the cinch. 

Long before my kids were old enough to go digging in the tack room for their own great ideas, the old rancher and I took it out and burned it before it got somebody hurt.


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## Molly Mckee

We did have one around too, I cut the stirrup leathers off before I tossed it out.


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## Irish Pixie

The only time those old type bareback pads would work was if a barn cat was perched on it- and they hung on for dear life. Just sayin'.


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## CraterCove

"The Domestic Horse: The Evolution, Development and Management of its Behaviour" by Daniel Mills and Sue McDonnell.

Damage attributed to bareback riding and pad saddles: 
1) Spondylotic spurs of new bone on the vertebra.
2) Impinging dorsal spinous processes
3) Fissures through the epiphysis
4) Osteophytes on the vertebrae

I will note that horses found in archeological digs were not nearly as old as our horses get to be.

Research papers using modern testing techniques I'll just post the authors and the synopsis:

A comparison of forces acting on the horse's back and the stability of the rider's seat in different positions at the trot.

Peham C, Kotschwar AB, Borkenhagen B, Kuhnke S, Molsner J, Baltacis A.


Source

Movement Science Group Vienna, Clinical Department for Companion Animals and Horses, University of Veterinary Medicine, Vienna, Austria. 


Abstract


The aim of the study was to compare the stability of the rider as well as the forces acting on a horse's back with different seating positions at the trot (sitting trot, rising trot and two-point seat). The same experienced rider was mounted on 10 sound horses trotting on a treadmill. The kinetic data were recorded with an electronic pressure mat, placed under a well-fitting dressage saddle with no saddle pad. The rider used three different seating positions, each for 20 s. Right forelimb motion was used to synchronise the pressure data with the stride cycles. To determine the rider's stability, the movement of the centre of pressure (COP) along the transverse (X) and longitudinal (Y) axes was calculated. The force was taken as the sum of all segments of the pressure pad multiplied by the area of the pressure pad. The maximum force and the X- and Y-deviations were evaluated using ANOVA for repeated measures with a Bonferroni Post hoc test. The stability of the rider in the Y-direction was significantly highest in the two-point seat, followed by the rising trot and the sitting trot, respectively. In the X-direction, there was no significant difference between the three positions. The significantly highest load on the horse's back was at the sitting trot (2112 N), followed by the rising trot (2056 N) and the two-point seat (1688 N). The rider was most stable in the two-point seat while transferring the lowest load on the horse's back. The rising trot was found to be more stable and less stressful for the horse's back compared to the sitting trot.

Copyright 2009 Elsevier Ltd. All rights reserved.

Forces and pressures on the horse's back during bareback riding.

Clayton HM, Belock B, Lavagnino M, Kaiser LJ.


Source

McPhail Equine Performance Center, Department of Large Animal Clinical Sciences, D202 Veterinary Medical Center, Michigan State University, East Lansing, MI 48824, USA. [email protected]


Abstract


The objectives of this study were to measure forces and pressure profiles when riding with a conventional saddle compared to bareback riding. An electronic pressure mat was used to compare contact area, mean total force and pressure variables for one rider riding seven horses at sitting trot with a conventional saddle or bareback. The use of a saddle was associated with a larger contact area and higher mean total force compared with the bareback condition. Mass normalized mean total force for bareback riding was lower than expected based on the rider's body mass, suggesting that shear forces exerted by the rider's thighs were not being registered by the pressure mat. In spite of the lower total force, the bareback condition was associated with higher average pressure, higher maximal pressure and larger area with mean pressure >11 kPa. Focal pressure concentrations were present beneath the rider's ischial tuberosities in the area of the horse's epaxial muscles when riding bareback but not when using a saddle. It was concluded that bareback riding was associated with focal pressure concentrations that may increase the risk of pressure-induced injury to the horse's epaxial musculature. The findings also emphasized that researchers should remain cognizant of shear forces, which may not be registered by the pressure mat, but may contribute to the effects of riding on the horse's back.

Copyright Â© 2012 Elsevier Ltd. All rights reserved.


Science for those who care. Anecdotes are nice but that's all they are.


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## Molly Mckee

I think there is a possibility that any horse found in an archeological dig was not feed like horses are today, there may be differences in the structure of the horse as well.

The other studies used way to small a number of either horses or riders to prove anything ---this is just at first glance.

I think you can find some type of study proving almost anything on the internet, especially since you have to "publish or parish".

A good study would compare today's horses being ridden bareback to today's horses being ridden with saddles. Breeding has changed things over time.I also think you need a much larger sampling to prove much of anything.


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## CraterCove

I'm sure nothing would even begin to change your mind so ~shrug~


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## 1sttimemom

Not enough data and too many variables for me. 7 horses & 1 rider just don't make a good base for the entire study. Questions about that rider, their weight, proficiency riding bareback vs saddle, etc. Interested that the article did mention something about not taking into account the riders thighs and pressure in that area??? I swear when I did lots f bareback riding as a teen I had serious muscular thighs and mostly rode using them.


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## bergere

It really does depend on the build of the horse, to wither there might be damage done to the horse riding bareback or with a bareback pad.
I have her checked every year with a Horse Body works person and a Vet. No issues for 10 years.

To add it depends on each horse's build, it also depends on how a person rides.
If you sit light, and only use your upper legs, there will be little pressure on the horse's back.

Dyfra is very short backed... shorter backed than Arabs. She is wide, broad shoulders,no withers great hind quarters. 
I have ridden her bareback or with the Sensation Hybrid for nearly the whole time I have owned her.
She is too wide and too short backed for most saddles..

Also used a "Port Lewis Impression Pad", which I highly recommend with looking for any saddle. It can tell you what pressure points there are.

I tried 35+ saddle on her, including ones, that were supposed to be for horses as wide and short backed as she is.
The worse impressions on her back... where all the treed saddles. 

Found out, she would need a specially made "Hoop" tree saddle,,, the traditional A frame had the wrong shape.
Back then, only Hoop treed saddle I could find was being made in the UK, by Black Country Horse.
She also let me now, politely Thank goodness... that a saddle wasn't a good fit.

The Best impression on that pad at the time.... The Startrekk, Treefree Treeless saddles..and later Sensation Hybrid... perfectly even, no pressure points.

The worse treeless,, the Freeform, ... could be because they were in an A frame design...original Barefoot.. etc..
and every Treed saddle. Pressure points were extreme.

Though I do not understand why you think Bareback is worse than with a Bareback pad?
My Bareback pad is thin.... very grippy so it won't roll but it will not offer any protection to the horse's back. It is just there to keep my pants clean.

There are a lot of good folks here, with real working knowledge. Not just what the read off the Net. 
They, along with me, do not like to see folks get hurt.


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## wr

Who'da thought that such a simple topic would turn into such a big deal.


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