# along with the foundation thread



## Callieslamb (Feb 27, 2007)

If you only use pieces of wax foundation and the bees draw it out....how do you extract the honey if it isn't wired? I buy wired foundation and then wire it going the other direction. I am on overkill with the wiring? I thought this is what I was supposed to do - and I hate wiring the frames!!!


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## Iddee (Sep 25, 2005)

I do the same as you. I hate blowing the comb out of the frame when extracting.

The answer would lie in cross wiring empty frames with starter strips for brood chambers, but cross wiring the wired foundation for honey supers. I doubt many want to keep it all separated, tho. I will continue to use wired foundation and cross wire it, in all frames.


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## Michael Bush (Oct 26, 2008)

>If you only use pieces of wax foundation and the bees draw it out....how do you extract the honey if it isn't wired?

The same way you do if it's wired. Wire was not invented for extracting it was invented to prevent the sagging of the foundation before it was drawn. This is easily proven by reading any ABC XYZ of beekeeping back to the first.

> I buy wired foundation and then wire it going the other direction. I am on overkill with the wiring?

Probably.

> I thought this is what I was supposed to do - and I hate wiring the frames!!!

I never wire the frames.  I never even use foundation anymore...

http://www.bushfarms.com/beesfoundationless.htm


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## Callieslamb (Feb 27, 2007)

Michael Bush said:


> >If you only use pieces of wax foundation and the bees draw it out....how do you extract the honey if it isn't wired?
> 
> The same way you do if it's wired. Wire was not invented for extracting it was invented to prevent the sagging of the foundation before it was drawn. This is easily proven by reading any ABC XYZ of beekeeping back to the first.
> 
> ...



I LIKE your answers!!!! I am not wiring this time around!!!!


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## alleyyooper (Apr 22, 2005)

I dislike the chore of cross wireing too. I flat out hate plastic foundation and our bees seem to also. Duraguild saves on the cross wireing but cost more than the time to cross wire. I'll continue to cross wire. I have had comb blow out in the extractor that was not wired.
Fish that out of a 72 frame extractor before it plugs the outlet.

 Al


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## Iddee (Sep 25, 2005)

>>>>I LIKE your answers!!!! I am not wiring this time around!!!!<<<<

Callie, how many years experience extracting do you have?
Micheal, how many years do you have? Also, how many frames did you blow out the first ten years you extracted?

Callie, You can wire or pay the tuition for experience. Your choice.


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## indypartridge (Oct 26, 2004)

Al, Iddee and Michael have all been keeping bees much longer than me. I value their experience, insights and expertise, but I have to wonder if there might be some aspects of this issue that we haven't talked about, such as type of extractor, size of operation.

None of the frames in my honey supers have crosswires, and most have no wires - I started them from strips. None have blown out, BUT I don't use a 72-frame motorized extractor either. Being small-scale, I can "baby" my frames in a hand-crank, basket-type extractor.

Now, if I were operating at larger scale, extracting 72 frames at a time, I sure wouldn't want to be slowed down by having to clean up blown frames, so I can see trying to avoid that. But for me, hand-cranking a few supers, wiring frames isn't worth the time or aggravation.


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## Iddee (Sep 25, 2005)

First, let me say....You do NOT need cross wires to extract.
Also, you do NOT have to roll up your car windows when driving in -O weather.
You do NOT have to use smoke and a veil when working your bees.
You do NOT have to use a chainsaw if you cut and burn wood as your only heat in Alaska.

IT JUST MAKES LIFE SO MUCH EASIER.


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## Callieslamb (Feb 27, 2007)

Iddee said:


> >>>>I LIKE your answers!!!! I am not wiring this time around!!!!<<<<
> 
> Callie, how many years experience extracting do you have?
> Micheal, how many years do you have? Also, how many frames did you blow out the first ten years you extracted?
> ...


Well, I don't have an extractor and if I do - it will be one DH makes and probably only hold 1 or two frames at a time. I only have 2 hives and have no plans on getting more. I will be surprised if I ever get more than two supers of honey a year for myself to use. I am not going to sell honey or market anything. This is all that I can handle. I have wired frames. I just hate doing them. I always cut my hands on the wires! But I am leaving one super unwired just to see- tuition, if you will.


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## Iddee (Sep 25, 2005)

If you are not going to use an extractor and are going to crush & strain your honey, use plain, unwired wax and don't crosswire it, for the honey supers. For the brood chamber, you can use wired or unwired, either cross wire or don't. Either way, it won't matter. I was speaking strictly for extracting purposes, it is best to use wired with cross wires.

There's sooooooo many right ways to keep bees. :shrug: :lookout:


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## alleyyooper (Apr 22, 2005)

An old wise bee keeper told me when I was starting out, *"do not be afraid to expermint".*

I have did just that after I had enougt colonies to recover any losses with out buying packages or nucs.

 Al


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