# orphaned calf again I could really use your help deciding



## dixiegal62 (Aug 18, 2007)

Ok heres where we are now, the vet called tonight to give me an update, the calf is up and around and doing good but she wont suck or drink from a bucket, they tubed her this morning because she still refused to suck on her own, then decided to try waiting for an afternoon feeding hoping she would work up an appetite and be willing to suck on her own, she said they tried and also tried to get her to drink from a bucket with no luck so they tubed her again.
She said they are at a loss as to why she wont, we know she sucked from her mom, and we know she sucked the first day I had her before she went down, she did give us a hard time but seemed to get the hang of it and finished off a bottle, the next day as you know she was down and wouldn't eat.

She said there is a thing called a dumb calf or foal that suffers brain damage and wont suck but most times they never suck to start they dont just stop 3 days later so that might not be it, she said the hard birth could have caused problems with something in her brain. She mentioned her lungs sound good but she does seem to be breathing a bit hard still while laying down and while shes up and moving around shes not seeming aware of her surroundings ( this one wasnt true when we had her here, she seemed very aware of us when we came near her and even when she was down she seemed aware, she would look at me when I came into the room etc )

So heres where Im at, Im picking her up in the morning and I would like to try and work with her over the weekend and see if she can suck or drink from a bucket but I dont want to cause her any suffering If I couldnt do anything with her I would have her put down Monday morning, again I dont want her to suffer and go down like before. 

So Im asking for your advice once again, would you give it another try, of am I just hurting her more then helping? If you would try what would you do to help her? Is it possible she could be dumb even though she was sucking before?


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## collegeboundgal (Jul 17, 2005)

I'd let her go without 2 feedings then try the bottle. and if you just going to put her down maybe see if a local farmer wants to try saving her. I'd not press the bucket feeding right now and just try and get the bottle going first. maybe in a week or two start the bucket training. have the vet teach you how to tube feed while you're there. don't just have them SHOW you but also do it yourself while under their watchful eye. do it a couple times. get the feel for it. ask if their is a shot that YOU can give to you know that you can. black leg is a good one. this is a pivotal moment between you and your vet. get to know them now, even if it's the vet tech's. they have been doing it for longer than the vet sometimes. they're not dummies. they are a source of help and information for you. even if this calf dies, being on this site shows that your into the homesteading lifestyle. youâll, most likely, be getting other animals some day. this is your chance to get a vet who knows you now.

-Melissa


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## PamB (Jan 15, 2008)

Can you keep tube feeding the calf? I have to do that on the dairy I work at, especially with the brown swiss! I sometimes put honey on the nipple to get them to suck. We only have trouble with our calves (beef)at home when the mom won't let them suckle, they usually suck pretty good when we bottle feed them--after a few weeks I put them on the bucket. 
Pam


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## SHELBY (Mar 9, 2003)

You know I've been thinking about this ever since you posted originally,

The vet is tubing her quite a bit, she may not want to suck because she is full. Don't know for sure.

If he is tubing her 3 or 4 times a day with 2 quarts a feeding, she may not have goten hungry enough to do it on her own. '
Another thing that is worth considering, is that he blows in the end of the tube, I dislike this much more, a calf has a small stomach and it can not hold that much, maybe him blowing in it and also tubing her is filling her up? Again not sure, 
Tubing will cause some discomfort in their throat, she might be a little sore and that is not wanting her to suck. 

One more thing, I wonder exactly how long he is trying to get her to take a bottle, Is he really trying or is he just putting it in her mouth for a few seconds and when she doesn't take it tubing her?


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## dixiegal62 (Aug 18, 2007)

we talked about more tubing awhile ago but she said its not something that we should keep doing, that its not good for the calf. I dont want to have to put this calf down but I dont want her to suffer if I try all weekend to feed her and I cant get her to eat. I will ask the vets if either of them will show me how to tube,but is tubing her till shes old enough to drink on her own the best thing for her? I just dont know.


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## dixiegal62 (Aug 18, 2007)

SHELBY said:


> You know I've been thinking about this ever since you posted originally,
> 
> The vet is tubing her quite a bit, she may not want to suck because she is full. Don't know for sure.
> 
> ...


 they said this morning they tubed her 4 quarts then waited till late this afternoon before trying to feed her again hoping she would be hungry and try. I dont know about the blowing part but it did kind of look like the vet was blowing into to tube, but Im really not 100% sure he was. Im not sure how long they tried to get her to suck


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## SHELBY (Mar 9, 2003)

No it's not, 

Tubing in the end will do more damage, I would think, 

If she was sucking before she knows what to do,


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## dixiegal62 (Aug 18, 2007)

oh I forgot to add, she did say when they tired to bucket feed her she kept trashing her head so they couldnt get her to try


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## SHELBY (Mar 9, 2003)

This calf is only like 4 days old and they tubed her 4 quarts, No wonder the little darlin didn't want to eat in the afternoon,


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## SHELBY (Mar 9, 2003)

dixiegal62 said:


> oh I forgot to add, she did say when they tired to bucket feed her she kept trashing her head so they couldnt get her to try



Buckets for her are not a natural thing so her doing that is normal.


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## dixiegal62 (Aug 18, 2007)

yes she was tubed 4 this morning and 4 this afternoon


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## SHELBY (Mar 9, 2003)

IMHO 2 gallons of MR in that amount of time is too much, that could be why she is refusing to drink from a bottle. 

One you get her tomorrow, ask how much they gave her, and if they tubed her 4 qrts again than I wouldn't even try feeding her anything until in the evening,


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## dixiegal62 (Aug 18, 2007)

Im worried about her saying she might be a dumb calf. I dont know how one would act but the first day she was up moving around she was nuzzling me when I went into the stall, after I fed her she went over to my coat that was hanging and was trying to nuzzle it too, she would suck on my fingers, she seemed normal. She did have a problem getting the idea of the bottle but then took off with it. She went to the stall door and was mooing a bit. I'm not understanding how she would now seem unaware of her surroundings


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## genebo (Sep 12, 2004)

Getting her to suck from a nipple with too small a hole is tough. Try enlarging the hole in the nipple until the milk runs from it. Then hold the bottle up until you get it in her mouth. Tip the bottle up and let the milk start to trickle in. Later, after she's well trained to suck, you can use a smaller hole in the nipple.

Genebo
Paradise Farm


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## dixiegal62 (Aug 18, 2007)

SHELBY said:


> IMHO 2 gallons of MR in that amount of time is too much, that could be why she is refusing to drink from a bottle.
> 
> One you get her tomorrow, ask how much they gave her, and if they tubed her 4 qrts again than I wouldn't even try feeding her anything until in the evening,



I was thinking the same thing


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## SHELBY (Mar 9, 2003)

They may not be explaining it right,

This is a calf that was left with her mother, mother died, and went to your house, then to a vet, She may just be confused, She may not have been with her mother long., but she was with her long enough to know that she was no longer with her, 

We got a herford heifer calf this summer, that was taken away from her mother, I believe they took her to the sale cause she is blind in one eye, That little girl bellered for a week and ran around the pasture in and out of the barn for a week until she settled down and befriended one of the bull calves, doing what you have described your little one doing to you and your coat.

She is probably looking for comfort and the vet is not the one she is looking for it from,


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## luvrulz (Feb 3, 2005)

OMG the calf is full and not hungry! Take her home and baby her and feed her just the limit that is says on the side of the bag. They gave her way too much, I think! Don't put her down - there's more than one way to get her to take the bottle... Just keep trying this weekend and I'm sure you'll be a huge success. It sounds like she was really warming up to you in the beginning....so maybe you can get back to that point. Don't tube her unless that is your absolute only option.... 

Good luck with her - have you named her yet? She needs a good name so decide she's going to live and take it from there!!


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## SHELBY (Mar 9, 2003)

genebo said:


> Getting her to suck from a nipple with too small a hole is tough. Try enlarging the hole in the nipple until the milk runs from it. Then hold the bottle up until you get it in her mouth. Tip the bottle up and let the milk start to trickle in. Later, after she's well trained to suck, you can use a smaller hole in the nipple.
> 
> Genebo
> Paradise Farm



I don't advise you doing this if this is your first time battling an unwilling calf. 
Too much of a risk of getting it in her lungs, She has to be willing to suck on her own, You can did the nipple in something sweet to get her to want it,

what you can try though is to run it through a dishwasher a few times to relax the rubber a bit so it feels more like mom.


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## dixiegal62 (Aug 18, 2007)

luvrulz said:


> OMG the calf is full and not hungry! Take her home and baby her and feed her just the limit that is says on the side of the bag. They gave her way too much, I think! Don't put her down - there's more than one way to get her to take the bottle... Just keep trying this weekend and I'm sure you'll be a huge success. It sounds like she was really warming up to you in the beginning....so maybe you can get back to that point. Don't tube her unless that is your absolute only option....
> 
> Good luck with her - have you named her yet? She needs a good name so decide she's going to live and take it from there!!


 yes I have named her, in my mind, I just didnt say it out loud because naming her would make it even harder to let her go if I had no other choice, or if she died. BUt the other night when I was sitting with her singing to her it came to me ( I know dont laugh, but I did sing to her it seemed to sooth her ) He name is Daisy May


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## SHELBY (Mar 9, 2003)

Daisy May is cute, I like it, 


Keeping that name in mind for when the milk cow has a hiefer, LOL


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## SHELBY (Mar 9, 2003)

Oh, forgot,

I didn't laugh when you said you sang to her, I do the same thing sometimes, They pull on the heart strings if you like it or not.


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## dixiegal62 (Aug 18, 2007)

luvrulz said:


> OMG the calf is full and not hungry! Take her home and baby her and feed her just the limit that is says on the side of the bag. They gave her way too much, I think! Don't put her down - there's more than one way to get her to take the bottle... Just keep trying this weekend and I'm sure you'll be a huge success. It sounds like she was really warming up to you in the beginning....so maybe you can get back to that point. Don't tube her unless that is your absolute only option....
> 
> Good luck with her - have you named her yet? She needs a good name so decide she's going to live and take it from there!!



I hope your right and shes just too full. Im planning on putting her in the garage tomorrow so there will be heat for her, and Ill be down there working and hopefully shes be more relaxed again.


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## dixiegal62 (Aug 18, 2007)

SHELBY said:


> I don't advise you doing this if this is your first time battling an unwilling calf.
> Too much of a risk of getting it in her lungs, She has to be willing to suck on her own, You can did the nipple in something sweet to get her to want it,
> 
> what you can try though is to run it through a dishwasher a few times to relax the rubber a bit so it feels more like mom.


 I was wondering how to soften the nipple up, Ill do that ty


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## Ronney (Nov 26, 2004)

Oh Dixie, that calf is being over-fed to hell and gone. I had to do the conversion from quarts/gal to litres - and they're feeding it almost as much in one feed as I give my 3 week old calves in two feeds. 

As you know from your previous thread, I feel this was the problem in the first place. I feed a calf 2.50 litres per feed. If I try to up this amount by even .50 of a litre, I will have a calf that behaves exactly as yours did.

I doubt there is anything wrong with your calf other than an overfull stomach. It won't suck because it doesn't need or want too; it's not hungry,
and it will appear to be dazed and disinterested in it's surroundings for the same reason. An overfull calf is a very uncomfortable little animal.


When I have calves I don't try to feed them for the first 12 hours. At that point I try; some go for it most don't want to know but they certainly do 12 hours later. Because they've had no food for 24 hours they will get as little as a litre of milk which is then gradually increased over the next couple of days until the maximum of 2.50 litres is reached. Somebody has suggested withholding the milk and this is a good idea. Let it get a bit hungry and you will find it will "remember" how to suck although it may take a couple of feeds to do so. 

I'm very pleased to hear that she is improving though and I can see no reason as to why she shouldn't survive - so long as she is not killed with kindness  

Cheers,
Ronnie


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## Cookiecows (Jan 21, 2008)

Don't mean to butt in ... I've been keeping up on this thread. Gosh I think we all love the little thing! I'm just in shock that a Vet would feed a 4 day old calf 4 qts a day. With our first motherless calf I believe my husband had to tube her once but after that she took the bottle and the vet said.. no more than two qts. a day and I just couldn't accept that. Just seemed like she was starving. I insisted to my husband that we give her more... wasn't long before we had to make a frantic call to have the vet come out as she was on her side bloated. She recovered but it was a lesson learned! I don't advise you go against what your vet is saying... I'm just confused by it. I love the name Daisy Mae! 
Deb


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## Cookiecows (Jan 21, 2008)

oh wait... I mean .. two bottles a day LOL I'm sure the bottles are more than a quart


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## SHELBY (Mar 9, 2003)

I knew what you meant Deb and was just about to fix it for you as not to get dixiegal confused, (no offense dixie, I know we have thrown a lot of info at you for you to keep straight) a bottle is 2 qts, 

2-- 2qt bottles a day if she is around 100 LBs is usually the recommended amount


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## dixiegal62 (Aug 18, 2007)

the bottles are 2 quarts. If I remember my math 1 liter is a just a bit over a quart. would that be enough even for a larger then usual calf, shes pretty big


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## dixiegal62 (Aug 18, 2007)

SHELBY said:


> I knew what you meant Deb and was just about to fix it for you as not to get dixiegal confused, (no offense dixie, I know we have thrown a lot of info at you for you to keep straight) a bottle is 2 qts,
> 
> 2-- 2qt bottles a day if she is around 100 LBs is usually the recommended amount


 we must have posted at the same time


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## agmantoo (May 23, 2003)

The next problem the calf is going to have is scours from being unable to digest all that milk replacer. 
This is yesterday's post in the other thread "Do as Ronney stated and do not feed the volume of milk the vet told you to feed. A hungry calf will be a healthy calf. Two quarts twice a day is fully adequate for a large calf and for a small breed 1 1/2 quarts twice per day is fine. Too much milk will give the calf scours and too much antibiotics will kill the bacteria the calf needs for digestion. Grab the skin on the side of the calf an pull outward. If the skin remains outward (resembling a tent) when released the calf is dehydrated and needs more electrolyte."


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## susieM (Apr 23, 2006)

I reckon she'll get hungry or thirsty after a short while. Tubing is teaching her nothing.


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## Cookiecows (Jan 21, 2008)

Thank you Shelby and Dixiegal for recognizing my goof so quick!  

Well another night! I'll be checking back in the morning! 

Deb


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## Cheribelle (Jul 23, 2007)

OK, I have BTDT, with some success, some failure, but only feed her 2 quarts in the morning, and 2 quarts at night. The regular calf bottle, mixed according to the bag instructions. Do not ever tube her more than that. 
Sucking is something that the calf needs to learn, it starts the digestion. A calf that is tubed is getting her milk into the first stomach. She needs to suck it herself so that it bypasses that 1st stomach and goes into the rumin, where it belongs. I have a very good cow vet that I use, he is very patient to explain things to me. He taught me to tube, it is scary, but I can do it. I NEVER have sucked on or blown into a tube....
Here's what I do, and it's hard work.
Even if you have to, to get her used to the motion, let her suck your fingers. 2 fingers, maybe with some Karo syrup on them.
She may have sucked the cow jus enough that the rubber nipple feels strange and she'll have to get used to it. Make sure it is warm when it goes into her mouth.
Take the scissors and cut a small X over the hole in the nipple. This makes the hole bigger and the milk flow easier. I back the calf into the corner so it can't get away from me, standing over the top of her with one foot on each side of her neck, facing her head. She must be standing. I bend over her, hold her face up, and force the nipple into her mouth. I sometimes put my fingers in there with the nipple to "work" it a bit, get the milk flowing. The only way it will go into the right stomach is if she swallows. This is hard work and may take 1/2 hr or more if your back can hold out. You may only get in a pint at first. Come back out at night and try again. Also get some calf starter (rough ground sweetened grain) and stick some in her mouth after every bottle. This helps get the rumen going, and may make her decide she's hungry. 
I had one I tube fed for the entire time, (6 weeks) finally told him to eat grass or die. It ate grass, but never developed into potential. 
I tried to save a couple that had not had colostrum, to no avail. My vet is great with cows, does only meat animals, so he knows his stuff and has told me to give it up at times. Once I fooled him, but usually he is right.
Get this calf away from this vet that is tubing her too much. Spend the time and effort to get her to suck, she will fight like crazy but you have to do it to save her life.
I have spent many hours with my heart broken over several that were very important to me emotionally, but that was a colostrum issue, and hopefully you can turn this around.
Best of luck to you!


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## robin f (Nov 26, 2007)

its kind of confuseing when talking quarts/pints/ gallons/ liters, because of the differant measures of differant countrys, our gallon( british or canadian) is 4.5 liters, the US gallon is 3.6 liters ( i think). the british pint is 20 fl ounces, the north american pint is 16 fluid ounces. 
THE BEST THING YOU CAN DO, is get some info from where you live( feed bag label, ag extention unit, farmer up the road) on how much you feed a week old calf.

to me your vet is next to hopeless. it would be a cold day in h*ll before i payed the bill, (did you ask about the price he will be chargeing ?) because you have a calf worth about $25 to $30, at most, you sure don't wat a $200 bill.

i'm sure we have all had that one calf that just dont want to drink, i know i have and it can be harrowing, but you have to look at the final cost, i hate to say it but you really have to.


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## B Adams (May 10, 2002)

I am reading this a little late, but I second what cheribelle wrote. I raise anywhere from 10-20 orphans a year, people drop them off in the barn. I think there is a sign that must read ( sucker for calves) on the barn somewhere, but I haven't found it yet.

I have tubed calves for as long as 3 weeks, but as cheribelle says they just don't grow well. Your baby is getting to much milk period end of story.
When you get that baby home wait about 10- 12 hours before you offer it the bottle. Its not hungry and may not get hungry for a while.

One thing that I have found on a difficult nurser is if I brush them with an old horse brush just like mother would lick them, sides, back, under belly, rump head, ears and generally before I am through they are trying to nurse my kneecap, pants legs so forth. 

If the baby only will suck say 2 pints thats okay because the belly is small and next feeding will be really hungry. As agman stated a hungry calf is a healthy calf. Calf needs sunshine and lots of love, but I think you can do this don't get discouraged.

B Adams


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## dosthouhavemilk (Oct 29, 2004)

The vet got the calf up and moving again. There was some good that came of it.
However, they definitely are grossly overfeeding that calf!
On some larger dairies they will tube 1 gallon or more of colostrum into a newborn and just leave it be for 24 hours while it lays there and digests all that.
4 quarts at a feeding is way too much.

Leave the calf be for 12 hours. Go ahead and offer it some milk 12 hours after its last feeding, but do not get discouraged or upset if she is not hungry. It does not hurt to at least try though. Let her go another 12 hours and try again. She will likely be ready to drink at that point.
Since she has nursed from the bottle before she should take to it again. Lots of changes in her system and her surroundings. It is a baby afterall.
Keep her comfortable, keep an eye on her hydration and keep trying with the bottle.


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## PamB (Jan 15, 2008)

I agree that the calf is getting too much milk. That vet must not treat cows for a living! Tubing is not hard, I used to tube feed almost half of all of our newborn dairy calves where I worked to make sure they got a gallon of colostrum with in the first few hours. Then it was 2 quarts/two times a day, right now in the winter months they get 3 feedings of 2 quarts, they need the extra to keep warm. If you treat it with anitbiotics make sure you give it some probios or even yogurt, so it gets it 'good' bugs back in its tummy. Tubing too long is not a good idea, but sometimes you don't have an option. Pam


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## Use Less (Nov 8, 2007)

That sounds like an awful lot of fluid! Also I would worry about getting milk in the lungs with too large or soft a nipple. If the calf will suck at your fingers, how about dipping a clean rag in some milk, and hand-feeding her drops by squeezing out of your hand while she's doing that? Sue


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## lgslgs (May 30, 2005)

Not sure I'm following all of the details that well, but if she's not sucking at the nipple you might want to consider this.

We had our best luck getting the calf to accept the bottle by holding it close to our boddies so that she had to nestle up under our jackets a bit and sort of nurse in the dark. For ours, we think that took some of the confusion out because she didn't have to look at new things. It was dark, cozy, and non distracting just like cow-mom's udder region would be.

Of course, after a couple of times doing this she learned to accept the nipple eargerly and we went straight to putting the bottle in a holder on the calf hutch. We wanted to make sure we didn't teach her to crowd us or disrespect our space during feeding.

But for the first couple of bottles, close and dark - even straddling her while feeding, really helped helped her learn the "bottle" was pretty good stuff and not just something big and scary coming at her face.

Lynda


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## piglady (Sep 28, 2006)

We have experienced something similar with goats. We always work to save newborns no matter what breed (cow, pig, goat, etc.) and had a little goat that was too weak to eat. Brought her in the house and tubed her. She got healthy as in food in, poop out and was growing but never attempted to eat and would not walk. After a week or so of tubing, we could see her problem was not a physical one but one in the brain. I think she suffered brain damage and would never be able to live normally so we let her go.


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## pamda (Oct 14, 2004)

I have never posted on this before but help raise a calf or two when my grandparents had them ( a few lightyears ago) My grandpa would have us stick our fingers in the milk we were using in nipple buckets and let the calf that was unable to suck learn from that. They would lick then suck on the fingers of the kid doing chores and then move to the bucket nipple. Seems to have worked all the time, as I know he would have had a fit (very furgal man) if we lost one and I do not remember losing any. It does take time and alot of sweet talk. So maybe that is why he had us( or me more than anyone ) do it. Lol Kept me busy too. Good luck I wish I had the room to raise a calf this year. But I do not think the daycare I work in would let me bring one to feed and keep company darn it. P


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## dixiegal62 (Aug 18, 2007)

ok we got her home and setteled in the garage on some hay, I put a bale on her side to get her to sit up. She doesnt look good y'all. when I got to the vets I went ahead in where they had her and she was on her side breathing hard still and not very responsive. I tried pushing on her side to encourage her to stand but she wouldnt. My sister helped me lift her and we got her standing ( now the floor was slick for her hoofs so that could be why ) but she just stood there with her little head hanging. I started rubbing her all over to get her moving and she perked up a tiny bit but not much.

The vet came in and we talked they had tubed her that morning she said 2 quarts. here is what they had treated her with:

of course the tubing 6 since wed morning, she did say I misunderstood and it was 2 quarts a feeding.
1 azium injection
2 nurflor injections 
and they where giving her probios once a day

now shes resting but I gotta say she is very unresponsive, not at all like she was on the first day Ill try to feed her tonight at about 7 and see how it goes


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## Ronney (Nov 26, 2004)

I'm sitting here going tut. Even 2 quarts is way too much with an upset stomach and I feel so sorry for this little calve being force fed something that is doing it no good. 2 quarts = 2.274 litres which is a whole 25mls less than I feed my healthy calves.

Others, including you, may not agree with me but I strongly feel that if you continue to tube feed this calf milk it is going to die and that you have nothing to lose now by going back to my original suggestion which is to take it off milk completely and feed it electrolytes. It's stomach needs a rest and time to build up the good bugs again.

What are the stools like? I imagine they will be runny or porridgey, a peculiar colour (most likely a yellow/grey) and stink to high heavens.

Cheers,
Ronnie


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## dixiegal62 (Aug 18, 2007)

Ronney said:


> I'm sitting here going tut. Even 2 quarts is way too much with an upset stomach and I feel so sorry for this little calve being force fed something that is doing it no good. 2 quarts = 2.274 litres which is a whole 25mls less than I feed my healthy calves.
> 
> Others, including you, may not agree with me but I strongly feel that if you continue to tube feed this calf milk it is going to die and that you have nothing to lose now by going back to my original suggestion which is to take it off milk completely and feed it electrolytes. It's stomach needs a rest and time to build up the good bugs again.
> 
> ...



we have no plans to try and tube her. Shes resting now and does stand when I go down to check on her but is still not very responsive. Her breathing is still hard when shes down.

As for feeding her eletrolytes I have some here now not sure if they are any good, its called ' kick start' 

I dont have enough knowledge at this point to agree or disagree with any of you good people who are giving me advice, Im just listening and sorting through it and trying to make the right choice out of it  and Im thankful for all of it.

oh her stools are a bit yellow/brown and dont have the bad stink they did the other day


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## agmantoo (May 23, 2003)

PÃ¢tÃ© de foie bovine?


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## dixiegal62 (Aug 18, 2007)

agmantoo said:


> PÃ¢tÃ© de foie bovine?


 liverwurst ? :shrug:


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## Cookiecows (Jan 21, 2008)

I don't remember who mentioned the idea of brushing her to simulate the mom's licking ... that sounded like a good idea ... if it didn't work maybe it would give her some comfort. 

I'm going to keep that trick in mind next time we have a problem.

Hugs Dixiegal2 ... still rooting for her!

Deb


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## luvrulz (Feb 3, 2005)

I have an old coke bottle that I fitted with a black nipple I bought @ TSC and it slips over the mouth of the bottle. I have used it for calves and lambs both and it seems to work fine. It's not a hard plastic like the one we had bought for the calf first time we had to bottle feed. This one is pliable and black. Maybe if you try one like that and find a glass soda bottle it might work better. I think the soda bottle I have is 16 oz and the calf started out drinking almost a whole one.....that's only 2 cups and we did it twice a day, I'm thinking.....

Good luck with Daisy Mae and hey! Keep singing!!!


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## mplatt4 (Mar 24, 2007)

I keep reading about this calf and have tried to see what will happen but I think this calf will die if you keep on the present course. Frst off I have raised a couple thousand bottle calfs over the years on my own and on dairies I worked on. But your present problem is dehydration and probably red nose which is a common virus also known as shipping fever. They are right stop feeding milk and feed electrolites for at least 48 hours or the calf will dehydrate and die then for 2 days feed a bottle twice a day with a raw egg in it until it has normal stool and then watch closely the stool and use the egg if it becomes loose again. And on the red noose Tylen 200 or 300 are good and are some of the drugs you are using but tubing the calf for long term is not good you may have to for a few days but sooner or later you have to teach it to drink and that just takes patients. But none of this matters if you dont keep the calf hydrated and you cant stop the scouers if you keep feeding it milk.Sometimes I feed smaller calfs a half bottle 4 times a day is best. And please do not feed the calf water the first 2 months a calf naturally does not drink water that young and when you feed water it dilutes the milk or milk replacer and pushes it through to fast and they dont get the full benifit. Good luck hope this helps


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## dixiegal62 (Aug 18, 2007)

for those who agree with eletrolytes have you ever used kick start? It says its for electrolytes and energy
a blend of bovine colostrum, proteins, live viable microbials, electrolytes and vitamins.
heres what it has in it:

Kick Start
Imu-Tek

Ingredients:
Dehydrated Whole Milk, Dried Whey, Dried Whey Protein Concentrate, Dried Whey Product, Dried Milk Protein, Animal and Vegetable Fat (Preserved with BHA), Lecithin, Isolated Soy Protein, DL-Methionine, L-Lysine, Vitamin A Acetate, D-activated Animal Sterol, Alpha Tocopherol Acetate, Cyanocobalamin, Folic Acid, Choline Chloride, Potassium Sulphate, Riboflavin, Niacin, Calcium Pantothenerate, Thiamine Mononitrate, Dicalcium Phosphate, Calcium Carbonate, Sodium Selenite, Ferrous Sulfate, Copper Sulfate, Cobalt Sulfate, Zinc Sulfate, Manganese Sulfate, Magnesium Oxide, Ethylenediamine, Dihydriodide, Citric Acid, Silicon Dioxide, Polyoxy-ethylene Glycol (400) Mono and Dioleates, Artificial Flavor, Lactobacillus acidophilus, Lactobacillus lactis, Streptococcus faecium.

Guaranteed Analysis:

Crude Protein
Min. 18.00%

Crude Fat
Min. 18.00%

Crude Fiber
Max. 0.15%

Ash
Max. 12.00%

Added Minerals
Max. 4.5%

Vitamin A
500,000 IU/pack

Vitamin D3
100,000 IU/pack

Vitamin E
300 IU/pack

Lactobacillus acidophilus
8,000,000,000 CFU/pack

Lactobacillus lactis
8,000,000,000 CFU/pack

Streptococcus faecium
4,000,000,000 CFU/pack

Total Lactic Acid Producing Bacteria
20,000.000.000 CFU/pack



Directions For Use:
Mix 1 pack of KICK START in 1 pint or more of lukewarm water and administer orally by drench, bottle or esophageal feeder as follows:
Incoming: 1 pack per day for 2 days.

Drug Therapy/Sick Pen: 1 pack daily. Continue for 3 days after drug therapy.

Disclaimer: Every effort has been made to ensure the accuracy of the information published. However, it remains the responsibility of the readers to familiarize themselves with the product information contained on the product label or package insert.


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## dixiegal62 (Aug 18, 2007)

Daisy May







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## ilovejerseys (Jan 25, 2008)

We used Quick Start on one of our calves -- doing as Ronnie suggests. That calf is fine now. I'm plugging for electrolytes and get off the milk til her stomach calms down and she gets the hydration!

Your in our thoughts! 

Kelly


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## dixiegal62 (Aug 18, 2007)

ok we gave here the electrolytes, she did suck but after a half pint she started fighting it and wouldnt suck anymore. She did however leave her spot shes been in all day and take a walk around the garage!  she was shakey but she moved around checked out a few things peed and then went back to her hay and layed down. I put a border around here spot in case she got the urge to explore again and got hurt. My lab mix has decided to babysit her,lol, hes layed with her all day and is with her now. Hopefully a half pint will do her and maybe she'll be even more hungry in the morning. Thanks everyone maybe by morning she'll be a bit more better.


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## topside1 (Sep 23, 2005)

Dixie I'd leave your Lab with her all night long if possible....companionship means a lot to any herd type animal....Give up an update, bright and early....John


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## robin f (Nov 26, 2007)

well it sure is one tough calf, most would of turned thier toes up by now. the calf doe's not look bad, not hunched up, the ears are down a bit. what breed is it? 

If i was you i would follow ronnies advice, i agree with him on this. get some electrolytes into it. also if you can get a raw egg into it it would help too.
good luck


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## dixiegal62 (Aug 18, 2007)

robin f said:


> well it sure is one tough calf, most would of turned thier toes up by now. the calf doe's not look bad, not hunched up, the ears are down a bit. what breed is it?
> 
> If i was you i would follow ronnies advice, i agree with him on this. get some electrolytes into it. also if you can get a raw egg into it it would help too.
> good luck



shes a black angus. I should put the raw egg in with the electrolytes or wait for when Im giving her milk?


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## agmantoo (May 23, 2003)

Those ears do not look like black angus to me, I think the calf has some brahma blood. Nice size calf and will make a good animal. Have you tried the pulling on the hair/skin over the ribs to see if it will tent? That will tell you if the calf is dehydrated or not. Unfortunately, I think the calf will develop scours. Check around and see if you can locate a product named Spectam Scour Halt made by AmTech. Hopefully you may not need it but if you do you will know the source.


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## robin f (Nov 26, 2007)

if i was you i would crack the egg, put in a mug, take mug to calf, lift her head and slide the egg down her throat. you don't have to wait to do this, you can do it any time.

what i use for combating scours is pepto bismol, yes the same stuff you may have in your cupboard in the house for human use, i give any calf i buy two to the little cup things that comes with the product, same way as giving the egg, hold her head up and pour down throat, after the first time ( as soon as i get them home) i do this twice a day, for a couple of days either just befoe feeding or after they dont seem to mind the taste, infact they seem to like it and will lick it off your fingers that spilt


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## dixiegal62 (Aug 18, 2007)

Ill give her an egg in the morning ty. One thing I have noticed today and wanted to ask y'all is she is drooling, alot. I didnt notice this the other day is this something calves normaly do?


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## Cheribelle (Jul 23, 2007)

Yes, I forgot to add, rub, rub ,rub that baby all over while you are trying to get the bottle down. That's what their mommy does, and I believe in it. 
Yes use the Kickstart for whatever it says on the package. The electrolytes will help with dehydration.


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## Ronney (Nov 26, 2004)

Right Dixie, now your cooking with gas  Your calf is drinking, it is up and it is interested in it's surroundings. That's got to be a huge step forward.

Don't worry that it is drinking so little, anything is a bonus and you can offer the electrolytes every couple or three hours without fear of it having an adverse effect . Personally, I would leave the egg out of the equation at this point in time and just focus on getting electrolytes into her for the next 36 hours or so. This calf's stomach has been severely traumatised and the less changes in food that go into it, the better. Keep it simple and the electrolytes should provide everything she will need for the time being.

When you decide to put her back on to milk, keep it small and keep it frequent. If you can deal with four, or even five, feeds a day to start with, that would be the way to go. If it's only 1/2 a pint a feed, it doesn't matter.

I'm afraid Agmantoo is right though and your next problem could be scours. Not a huge problem if dealt with properly and to that end, follow his advice and get some of the product he mentioned. From my reading on here it is very similar to a product that I've used called Scourban and it is extremely good. 

mplatt4, I must take issue with you over your comment that calves shouldn't be fed water until 2 months of age! What? *ALL* animals, including the young, should have access to clean water at *ALL* times. Two things comes to mind with this. Bottle/calfateria reared calves are fed twice a day and unlike their cow-reared counterparts, cannot dive in for a quick drink when they feel like it. This mean they go 10-12 hours without liquid intake and your giving them no opportunity to do so. The second thing is, that many of these reared calves are also being fed calf meal or similar to stimulate rumen activity. These grains absorb fluid from the gut and it needs to be replaced. My 6 week old calves will drink water within 30 minutes of eating calf meal and they are still being fed milk. Calves will sip water from 3 days old and their intake increases as they grow. Climate should also be taken into consideration. However, what must never be done is the dilution of milk whether it be cows milk or milk replacer. That will definately muck up the system. 

Cheers,
Ronnie


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## dixiegal62 (Aug 18, 2007)

Shes down again, She tried to stand but got up half way and just fell to her side, breathing hard, cant hold her head up to try and suck, when I tried and help her hold it up she tries to suck but cant.
Im so frustrated, last night I thought she was on the way to getting a bit better and now just as bad as before, and Im starting to feel like she would just be better off if I just let her go.

edited to add

I dont understand how she was doing so much better yesterday getting up and down, walking around last night then so bad again.


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## dixiegal62 (Aug 18, 2007)

went down and tried again, it took 3 hours since early this morning but I finally got a pint down her. I had to make the nipple hole bigger she seems to be sucking but has a hard time pulling any milk out. Hopefully that will help.


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## topside1 (Sep 23, 2005)

dixie don't make the hole to big...some of the liquids may end up in her lungs...John


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## SHELBY (Mar 9, 2003)

I know it gets discouraging, 
The only thing that I would advise you to do, is to keep trying through out the day, to get something into her, and getting her up to keep the circulation in the legs moving,


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## dixiegal62 (Aug 18, 2007)

topside1 said:


> dixie don't make the hole to big...some of the liquids may end up in her lungs...John



Is there anything else I can do to make it easier for her, shes trying to suck and she'll suck the bottle for quite a few minutes and not get anything out of the nipple, then she just gives up


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## luvrulz (Feb 3, 2005)

She's a nice looking calf dixiegal and it sure is heart wrenching when she can't get up and do what nature intended...EAT! 

Are you using the big huge plastic bottle with the kind of orangey colored nipple? I still vote for the black nipple on a coke bottle - or something different.... I wonder if you have a regular baby bottle or are there any farmers nearby that might have another bottle to try? TSC isn't open here at this time of day on Sunday - is the Lab still down with her?? I am so hoping she pulls through for you! Do you know someone locally that raises bottle calves?? I have used any bottle that works! Even baby doll bottles for some baby rabbits my dog brought in.... If it works, go with it. Just don't over feed -

We're all pulling for you! When I watch my calves nurse in the pasture, they always bump up against the udder and there's a system they kind of go through.... I had one lamb that I had to give him the bottle under my leg so it kind of was like he was nursing from his mother. He took some getting used to, that one! Good luck with Daisy Mae! And hugs to you!!


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## dixiegal62 (Aug 18, 2007)

luvrulz said:


> She's a nice looking calf dixiegal and it sure is heart wrenching when she can't get up and do what nature intended...EAT!
> 
> Are you using the big huge plastic bottle with the kind of orangey colored nipple? I still vote for the black nipple on a coke bottle - or something different.... I wonder if you have a regular baby bottle or are there any farmers nearby that might have another bottle to try? TSC isn't open here at this time of day on Sunday - is the Lab still down with her?? I am so hoping she pulls through for you! Do you know someone locally that raises bottle calves?? I have used any bottle that works! Even baby doll bottles for some baby rabbits my dog brought in.... If it works, go with it. Just don't over feed -
> 
> ...


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## luvrulz (Feb 3, 2005)

How is she now??


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## dixiegal62 (Aug 18, 2007)

luvrulz said:


> How is she now??



shes laying on her side breathing hard, she tries to get up but cant, when I pick her up and try to help her stand her back legs wont hold her up.


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## topside1 (Sep 23, 2005)

Dixie loosen the bottle ring slightly, this will allow the milk to flow out. Sounds like the calf is creating a vaccume on the bottle and the nipple. If this is the case the calf will never be swollowing the milk, because the milk can't exit the bottle. Loosen the white nipple ring, but not so loose it comes off. If the calf is sucking for several minutes as you mentioned then it must be hungry....John


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## SHELBY (Mar 9, 2003)

dixiegal62 said:


> shes laying on her side breathing hard, she tries to get up but cant, when I pick her up and try to help her stand her back legs wont hold her up.


You are going to need help to hold her up, once you get her up rub rub rub her and sometimes that will stumulate her enough to get them back legs under her. try to keep her proped up against something when she is laying down, don't let her lay out flat on her side.



I'm sorry to say, but this does not sound good, if she can not hold her self up she has no will to live,


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## topside1 (Sep 23, 2005)

If the calf is sucking and you don't see tiny bubbles flowing up from the nipple ring then the ring is on far to tight...


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## topside1 (Sep 23, 2005)

If the calf was up and walking around at the vets, now it's on it's side and can't barely stand. Well it's my belief that the animal is just weak from lack of nutritian. Get this bottle feeding dilema under control and I feel the calf may begin to thrive...The calf is sucking the nipple, that's the best news.


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## dixiegal62 (Aug 18, 2007)

topside1 said:


> Dixie loosen the bottle ring slightly, this will allow the milk to flow out. Sounds like the calf is creating a vaccume on the bottle and the nipple. If this is the case the calf will never be swollowing the milk, because the milk can't exit the bottle. Loosen the white nipple ring, but not so loose it comes off. If the calf is sucking for several minutes as you mentioned then it must be hungry....John



I loosened it this morning while feeding her hoping it would make it easier for her to suck. I loosened it to the point where milk was starting to drip from the ring and got it to the point where its loose but not dripping out. she was still having a hard time with it I would move the nipple a bit in her mouth till I found the spot where air was coming back in to the bottle when she sucked.


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## luvrulz (Feb 3, 2005)

Do you see bubbles at all when she's sucking on the bottle? Before you put it in her mouth, when you turn it upside down, does the milk drip out? Maybe the hole needs to be a bit bigger, Dixiegal. Don't lose hope - 

If all else fails, put it in a food bowl and see if she can lap it up. I had one that picked up on that right quick and didn't want a bottle at all...... I had to kind of mush her nose into it, but she took to it quickly.... I think your little girl is just hungry....


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## lgslgs (May 30, 2005)

Might sound a bit weird, but at this point I'd clean the nipple well, fill the bottle with water, and try drinking from it it myself to see how hard it is to get the milk to flow. Then loosen ring and open nipple hole a bit as necessary.

Lynda


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## dixiegal62 (Aug 18, 2007)

luvrulz said:


> Do you see bubbles at all when she's sucking on the bottle? Before you put it in her mouth, when you turn it upside down, does the milk drip out? Maybe the hole needs to be a bit bigger, Dixiegal. Don't lose hope -
> 
> If all else fails, put it in a food bowl and see if she can lap it up. I had one that picked up on that right quick and didn't want a bottle at all...... I had to kind of mush her nose into it, but she took to it quickly.... I think your little girl is just hungry....


 sometimes when she sucks there bubbles other times she sucks and nothing. I just got another pint of electorlytes down her ( she did do a bit better this time ) gave her another good rub down before I feed her.. I swear shes giving me more grey hairs then my sons did as teenagers


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## dixiegal62 (Aug 18, 2007)

oh I forgot to add for the ones who mentioned checking it, each time I check on her I pull the skin on her side to a tent and it just springs right back every time.


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## jerzeygurl (Jan 21, 2005)

NEVER feed calf more than 2 qts per feeding

2 qts 2 times a day

or 1.5qts 3 times a day

that is per vets instructions( and replacement bag instructions)


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## luvrulz (Feb 3, 2005)

Hey Dixiegal - any news on Daisy Mae?? Hope she's perking up some!


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## robin f (Nov 26, 2007)

well mplatt, ronnie sure is right about the surplying clean water at all times, my calves start drinkng a little water at 3 days of age, and by the time they are finnished the bag of milk replacer (at about 5 / 6 weeks of age )they are drinking as much water as milk....... even more in the summer, if you have raised calves without excess to fresh water to two months of age i really don't know how you have done so, although i do agree one the other advice you have given


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## robin f (Nov 26, 2007)

after a very quick look, these site say give water, are you going to disagree with these too? 
unless they are on a free access to milk, then you must give water, and going by your post they are not on free access to milk 24/7

http://oklahoma4h.okstate.edu/projects/literature/4hlit135.pdf
http://www.omafra.gov.on.ca/english/livestock/beef/facts/06-083.htm
http://www.uky.edu/Ag/AnimalSciences/dairy/extension/nut00119.pdf
http://www.milkproduction.com/Library/Articles/Calves_cold_weather_feeding.htm
http://www.calfnotes.com/pdffiles/CN068.pdf

I think you gave bad advice to a young lady ( and anyone else ) who needs advice, and I guess your 150.000, was not well spent


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## myersfarm (Dec 24, 2004)

I give water from day one....understanding IF THEY drink they will also eat grain....thats what I want them to do...also in my angus herd I have seen week old calfs drink water right along with mom....I have always said a cow and calf knows what they need.....no matter what we think they need......tjm


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## dosthouhavemilk (Oct 29, 2004)

We do not offer water free choice to calves under weaning age as a general rule. If they are running in the goat pen then they have access to water.
Our calves get water in their bottles (yes mixed with milk or MR). They get a full 2 quart bottle twice a day until they are on a bucket then their total liquid amount is raised up to 6 pounds twice a day until weaning.
This keeps a cleaner pen and does not harm the calf.
After weaning, they are on Primer 1 free choice (this is offered from Day 1 and they are eating quite a bit by one month of age) and they have water free choice as well at that point.

There are a lot of different ways to raise calves. What works for one may not work for another. The goal is to not overfeed and to provide enough nurishment that the calf will grow.
We don't run into issues with our calves on this system. Have not for half a century or more they have been raised this way. They grow up to be healthy, heavy and strong milking cows. Our calves usually are larger then their classmates at the County Fair...also tend to be "overconditioned" for calves.


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## robin f (Nov 26, 2007)

Roseanna, are they weaned when running in the goat pen, and at what age do you wean?
lol @ the half century bit.......... yeah time flys don't it, it seems like yesterday we were sitting around singing 'yesterday'


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## dosthouhavemilk (Oct 29, 2004)

I'm only a quarter of a century old but the methods used to raise calves here today are the same that my grandmother perfected a long while ago.

There are times when newborn calves are run in the doe pen in the milking barn. Generally due to space issues. We try to have them in their own pen by at least a month old so we can offer them Primer 1 free choice. This cannot be done with the goats because they would eat it all. lol

Calves are weaned at around 8 weeks old here...sometimes 6 weeks, sometimes 10-12. It depends on when we realize how old they are and also their growth.
The calves that start out in the goat pen do drink water fairly early on and nibble hay but do not always take off on the Primer as quickly.
Both groups grow just fine.

We do not raise a large number of calves each year since we normally milk around 20 head. There used to be at 40+ calves a year but those days are long gone.


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## robin f (Nov 26, 2007)

lol, well i guess you wern't sitting singing then, lol

mplatt, no reason for you to take that attitude, and we are not talking about smoking, but feeding calves, oh well i guess if thats what you want to do, go ahead and delete.


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## agmantoo (May 23, 2003)

Well you now have me wondering. 2000 calves and losing less than 10. So that would be 5 or less per 1000. That is .5 percent loss. The answer to that is No Way!


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## robin f (Nov 26, 2007)

lol , yeah, go figure eh


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## Ronney (Nov 26, 2004)

I don't usually get on during the day as I'm on dial-up and it hogs the telephone line. However, I do nip in and out and sometimes reply.

mplatt, nobody insulted you at all. You insulted me by implying that because you had the education and degrees, your knowledge must therefore be greater than mine. This is without knowing my educational level or experience. I see you have deleted both those posts.

So let's call it a day shall we -those that wish to give their calves access to fresh water can do so with impunity in the certain knowledge that they are not going to keel over. Those that wish not too can do so also in the certain knowledge that they are not going to keel over. One thing is quite clear and that is that whichever way you choose to go about it, there appear to be no long-term adverse affects on the calve.

This is Dixies thread and this bickering does not help with her immediate problem.

P.S. I am a woman  

Cheers,
Ronnie


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## SHELBY (Mar 9, 2003)

Dixie 

How's the calf doing?


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## dixiegal62 (Aug 18, 2007)

SHELBY said:


> Dixie
> 
> How's the calf doing?


Sorry I havent been on to give an update, sunday dinner with the kids and all  

Shes had 4 feedings of kick start today and doing better, she seems to be getting a handle on sucking but still needs help, she walked around the garage, getting up better but still really shakey when walking, but she is walking!! 
She hasnt had any bm's today I dont know if that should worry me. Her breathing still seems hard

Im debating if I should give her more feedings tonight, I dont want to find her down again in the morning. She had her last one at 7:30.


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## SHELBY (Mar 9, 2003)

If it were me I would try at least one more time tonight, and then again early in the morning. The fact that she is walking and holding her weight is very good. 

Just make sure she stays warm, even if you have to put a blanket on her, I don't know if your temps dip down or not, and the stress of being chilled along with everything else will be hard on her.


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## dixiegal62 (Aug 18, 2007)

shes in the garage for now which is under our house and stays pretty warm. Ive got her a section covered with hay so the concrete floor wont chill her. My lab is still right by her side, he only leaves her for bathroom breaks  Not too cold here tonight its still in the high 40s, the garage I would say is in the high 60s.
I'll give her another bottle and hopefully she be still doing good in the morning

She gave my husband a good laugh today, I was rubbing her and talking to her trying to get her to get up on her own, I was telling her to please get and up just talking away, and I told her, you wanna just sit here and give up fine with me, your half angus half brahma and not good for anything but steaks anyway, as soon as I got the word steak out she just stood up,and walked to the garage door and stood there looking at it.. probably one of those, you had to be there kind of things but it was funny


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## robin f (Nov 26, 2007)

lol, I wonder if she would of kept going if the door had been shut, lol I can see her wandering down the road, mumberling............ huh, steaks indeed.

nice to hear she is drinking better, keep up the good work.


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## Ronney (Nov 26, 2004)

That all sounds positive. A bit late now but I think I would have given her another feed before going to bed but it's neither here nor there - calves do very little feeding at night.

At this point I wouldn't worry too much about no BM's - there's very little that is going to turn to solids going into her which means that she's got rid of all the milk and that's good and probably why she's feeling a little chirpier. But do expect high and low points in her day - she's been very sick and will tire quickly. I take it she is peeing?

Cheers,
Ronnie


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## luvrulz (Feb 3, 2005)

I am so glad to hear she's doing better and perking up!! I will be thinking of you today and hoping for more great news!!


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## Teacupliz (Nov 20, 2003)

I know with baby goats with no BM most of the time it means they are absorbing all the nutreints.
Sounds like she made it threw the worst if she is eating- good job- Liz


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## dixiegal62 (Aug 18, 2007)

She sucked her bottle down like a pro earlier this morning. Not as much energy as last night but still seems to be feeling better. I do wish her breathing would sound better.


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## SHELBY (Mar 9, 2003)

Not eating alot yesterday and feeling crummy could be why she doesn't have too much energy today. But the fact that she drank her bottle this morning is very, very good. How much did she drink? 

Have you taken her temp? She may have something going on there.


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## dixiegal62 (Aug 18, 2007)

SHELBY said:


> Not eating alot yesterday and feeling crummy could be why she doesn't have too much energy today. But the fact that she drank her bottle this morning is very, very good. How much did she drink?
> 
> Have you taken her temp? She may have something going on there.



I'll check her temp in a few minutes. The kick start says to mix with a pint or more, Iv been mixing it with a pint. After the powder is added its almost 2 pints . Yesterday I feed her every 4 hours for a total of 5 feedings.

Her breathing has been strange since she went down the first time. I dont know if she sounded like this before she got sick, I didnt notice it the first day but I wasnt really paying attention to her breathing. Its kind of like a hard huff/snort sound when she breaths out. Sometimes its not as bad, but when shes laying down on her side or laying with her head up its worse. When I rub her down it gets louder.


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## SHELBY (Mar 9, 2003)

Okay, I think I've got it now, whith the aboumt you are feeding and with the sucking issue, It may be too thick for her to get out of the nipple, that could have been the reluctancy when you first gave it to her,

Does it look sort of like jello after you mix it up? 


The breathing part has me baffled at the moment. You said the vet said her lungs sounded good right?


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## dixiegal62 (Aug 18, 2007)

no its just like water when mixed, shes sucking it down very well now that she has got the hang of it. 

Yes the vet said her lungs where clear.


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## Cheribelle (Jul 23, 2007)

Yeah for some good news!
Keep at it, that 's all you can do.


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## luvrulz (Feb 3, 2005)

So glad to hear good news for Daisy Mae and you! Keep it up and let us know how she progresses!! _Is she really destined for the freezer??_ I might have named her something different then......


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## dixiegal62 (Aug 18, 2007)

luvrulz said:


> So glad to hear good news for Daisy Mae and you! Keep it up and let us know how she progresses!! _Is she really destined for the freezer??_ I might have named her something different then......



when we talked about raising cows someday that was the plan, but I cant see anyway I'd be able to eat this girl. so shes just a giant pet or maybe raise some babies off of her. I cant imagine working this hard to keep her alive then killing her. Not much of a farmer am I,lol


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## Cheribelle (Jul 23, 2007)

Join the club, and be glad it's a heifer. You can keep those!


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## dixiegal62 (Aug 18, 2007)

ok tonight will be 48 hrs on electrolytes. 
Just checking to make sure I have this right, I dont want her down again because of lack of food or too much... ronney mentioned smaller feedings more times a day so this is what Im going to try, starting out in the morning with 1 pint and going from there. Im very nervous about adding mr back  

she wasn't very hungry at her last feeding and fought the nipple so I didnt push too much, hoping she does better when the 5:00 feeding comes around. She's still getting up and moving around a bit.


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## luvrulz (Feb 3, 2005)

With all this human contact, she'll be a good milker....didn't know how a brahma is for milk tho.... LOL

And a good momma! I say keep her and raise more babies!!!


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## dixiegal62 (Aug 18, 2007)

luvrulz said:


> With all this human contact, she'll be a good milker....didn't know how a brahma is for milk tho.... LOL
> 
> And a good momma! I say keep her and raise more babies!!!


 I thought the same thing about the milk  I just thought she was an angus till it was pointed out here that her ears looked like a brahma. So until I talk to my bil Im guessing maybe a brangus? since he raises to sell for meat. Cant find any info on anyone milking one though,lol


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## dixiegal62 (Aug 18, 2007)

y'all I am about ready to start bawling here. Yesterday she seemed to be on her way to mending, this morning she took her bottle fine she was sucking better and moving around more. 

The rest of the day was a nightmare, having to fight her with each feeding, she would try to sling her head and keep me from feeding her, we got some down her each time but it was a huge fight. I just came back up from trying one before I went to bed since she didnt finish any bottle since this morning. Shes fought me with all her strength, I rubbed her and she tried to stand and kept falling back down and shaking then tried again flipped over on her side her body landing over her head bent in two like a pretzel, looked like she just folded herself in half at the neck.. I flipped her body off her head thinking she broke her neck. Calmed her down and helped her stand again she, she couldnt hold herself up I had to lean against her for awhile to let her get her bearings and then rubbed her talking to her and after awhile tried the bottle again, she just clinched her mouth shut twisting sideways and no amount of prying was getting it open. I stayed with her awhile more trying and finally just gave up, as soon as I moved from her side she just dropped sideways to the ground again. I think its time for me to admit that whatever is wrong with this baby goes much farther then just food and let her go.


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## collegeboundgal (Jul 17, 2005)

ahhh, dixie, at least you can't say you didn't try. I'd just wait to see what morning brings. maybe bed time w/o supper will change her mind.

-Melissa


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## Ronney (Nov 26, 2004)

Dixie, she may have pneumonia and this would not be out of the way given the circumstances and would account for the huff/snort when she breathes out. Did you take her temperature? Are you finding that she is good in the morning and gets progressively worse as the day goes on?

I think you have come to the cross roads, not only for the calf but for yourself. It is time consuming and stressful. I've been down this track and must admit haven't always known when to call it quits. It has often been at the expense of myself, family and committments in other places. Sometimes it has been worth it, other times I've lost the battle. Nobody will think any worse of you if you decide to call it quits; you will have given it your best shot and you can't do more than that. And while you may not realise it now, you will have learnt one hell of a lot that will hold you in good stead for the future. See what the morning brings and take it from there.

Cheers,
Ronnie


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## luvrulz (Feb 3, 2005)

sending hugs, i know this hasn't been easy........


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## homefire2007 (Sep 21, 2007)

dixiegal. I've never had a cow, but I've been reading this post and your original post for updates. Hugs to you, Daisy May and all the good folks who have given advice and moral support! Let us know how you are doing.


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## SHELBY (Mar 9, 2003)

Dixie, 

In my experience with calf raising, the calf has to have the will to live to get through whatever it is they are battling. 
Some just don't, those that do will keep trying and keep getting better as the day and days to by, Those that don't just stop trying.

You went above and beyond for a newbie IMHO, not many would have done that and just given up when she went down on you the first time.

Stay strong and know that you did everything you possible could, the rest is up to her.


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## dixiegal62 (Aug 18, 2007)

no fever but cant even hold her head up, when trying to move her she acts like shes in pain by rolling her eyes and mooing and kicking. I just talked with our vet about coming here so I dont have to cause her any more pain by moving her and putting her down.


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## robin f (Nov 26, 2007)

here's hoping she is better this morning, but if not, as has been said, you tried your best. its not always easy, hang in there.


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## dixiegal62 (Aug 18, 2007)

Y'all have been so patient and willing to help and I wanted to thank each and every one of you from the bottom of my heart. I hope you dont think badly of me for letting her go, it just feels right. I wish I could have done more for her.


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## BAmaBubba (May 10, 2007)

(((HUGS))) I'm so sorry! You've done a stellar job with her. It sounds as though it just wasn't meant to be. I'll tell you, though, seeing how you've been with her, you'll make a wonderful cow mama


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## dixiegal62 (Aug 18, 2007)

when the vet called and said they where on the way. I went back down to her to sit with her awhile. I was petting her chest and everytime I touched her he legs went up like she was scratching and she went into a seizure that lasted until the vet gave her the injection. I was thankful to see her get still and be at peace.


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## homefire2007 (Sep 21, 2007)

Dixiegal :grouphug: You did a yeomans job. I would want you in my corner any day. Take care and another big ((((Hug)))).


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## Cheribelle (Jul 23, 2007)

Honey, you didn't let her down. You tried hard, This is what I have seen with calves that did not get their colostrum. They give up and die. Almost always. I would start to doubt your source, and did she actually get the colostrum within the recommended 4-8 hours.
The most gorgeous sweet healthy looking baby in the world seems like will not last much over a week without. I had one that chased me around the yard and played at first, sucked one bottle, then it turned into a battle, she did not have that 1st colostrum. 
Anybody that has any inclination to raise calves, beware! Jave a colostrum mix ready for the first feeding, but even then, it must be within a few hours of birth. 








This was Lilly, a purebred Guilbveh, from my friend's herd. He died, the widow called me after this calf had not sucked for 2 days. It was too late. I would have done ANYTHING to save this little girl, and keep a part of my friend's herd here.


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## SHELBY (Mar 9, 2003)

dixiegal62 said:


> Y'all have been so patient and willing to help and I wanted to thank each and every one of you from the bottom of my heart. I hope you dont think badly of me for letting her go, it just feels right. I wish I could have done more for her.




Dixie, You did what you had to do. Noone that has ever been in your shoes with this calf will ever think that. 

Calf raising can be tough, and you being a newbie to it did wonderfully, you asked questions, consulted a vet, and did everything possible to save her. 

Sometimes you just have to do what is best for yourself and for the animal. And in this case you did that.


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## DamnearaFarm (Sep 27, 2007)

dixiegal62 said:


> when the vet called and said they where on the way. I went back down to her to sit with her awhile. I was petting her chest and everytime I touched her he legs went up like she was scratching and she went into a seizure that lasted until the vet gave her the injection. I was thankful to see her get still and be at peace.



I don't know nuthin' about cows, but I followed you over here from the other side of the boards. 
Darlin', you did all you could and in the end you made the right decision. Letting go is never easy, not when you've willed a beastie to live. 


Hugs.


Charaty


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## Annsni (Oct 27, 2006)

What you did was to be an angel to that little girl and helped give her the best chance anyone could have. Even without knowing cows at all, I know that you did everything you could and gave her much more of a chance than she would have normally had. The fact that she was still this bad this far out shows that there was not going to be an improvement. I'm so sorry that it didn't go another way but you did all you could AND you gave her comfort and love for her short life. 

((HUGS)) sweetie!


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## Terri (May 10, 2002)

Dixie, when I was a child we had a cat that had kittnes prtty regularly.

I learned at an early age, that, not every newborn is normal, and sometimes you cannot make them live. 

Just because a critter looks right on the OUTSIDE does not make them able to live.

I'm sorry.

Terri


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## southerngurl (May 11, 2003)

I'm sorry you lost her.


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## dixiegal62 (Aug 18, 2007)

thank you everyone. All of you are a God send she wouldn't have lived as long as she did without your advice and encouragement.. shes better off and at peace now. Who knows I may get the courage up to try again someday.


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## luvrulz (Feb 3, 2005)

I am so sorry for you and your calf.... I am sorry you lost her and I know it must've broken your heart. Hugs, and lots of them......


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