# Torneo de Lazo, Anyone else heard of this?



## CraterCove (Jan 24, 2011)

Sooo... I was sent a link to sign a petition today to ask the President of Mexico to enforce the laws forbiding an act called Torneo de Lazo. I had never heard of such a thing but apparently it's a Yucatan tradition where one trains bulls to ram and gore horses for what reason? I really can't tell. 

What wonderful PR for all the people from south of the border when lots of people from other places already think the place is rife with drug cartels in place of local governments and loads of people who want to do nothing more than make a run for a country north of them.

I really don't even understand the point of this at all. I usually don't pass these things along but I thought I would this time: http://www.avaaz.org/en/petition/Horses_eviscerated_alive_for_fun/?cFxqmfb


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## wr (Aug 10, 2003)

CraterCove said:


> Sooo... I was sent a link to sign a petition today to ask the President of Mexico to enforce the laws forbiding an act called Torneo de Lazo. I had never heard of such a thing but apparently it's a Yucatan tradition where one trains bulls to ram and gore horses for what reason? I really can't tell.
> 
> What wonderful PR for all the people from south of the border when lots of people from other places already think the place is rife with drug cartels in place of local governments and loads of people who want to do nothing more than make a run for a country north of them.
> 
> I really don't even understand the point of this at all. I usually don't pass these things along but I thought I would this time: http://www.avaaz.org/en/petition/Horses_eviscerated_alive_for_fun/?cFxqmfb



Do you have any information other than PETA propaganda? The lack of a coherent discription of this event and graphic images is more than a little suspect. 

I have sufficient ranch background to know that you absolutely can't train bulls to gore or ram. A quick internet search only seemed to lead me back to more PETA/vegan websites but a couple of youtube videos seem to indicate that it's a combination horsemanship/ranch roping. Could this be the same event?


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## CraterCove (Jan 24, 2011)

Eh, see that's the problem... I've been searching online since I saw this thing and most everything is in Spanish and... well 6th grade Spanish was a long time ago. I am trying to figure out now if this is even a real thing at all.

I have no marked experience with bulls-- except a ranch near where I lived had a Brahma that was trained to ride, which was cool. So I have no clue what they can or cannot be trained to do.

Really? I hope it's some hyped up thing and not real at all.


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## wr (Aug 10, 2003)

Horses get hurt in bullfights and they get hurt on ranches but I'm very certain that the description isn't as outrageous as the description indicates. 

I've almost always worked with horned cattle and it does offer some additional challenges that one might not see with more traditional British breeds.


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## Molly Mckee (Jul 8, 2006)

I have no idea what that is, but if PETA is against it, it must be okay!


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## SFM in KY (May 11, 2002)

Molly Mckee said:


> I have no idea what that is, but if PETA is against it, it must be okay!


My sentiments exactly!

Sounds a bit like the traditional bullfights in Spain. Some are with mounted horsemen (rejoneadors) and others with the more commonly seen toreadors who fight on foot. But the bulls are definitely not trained, they are bred for aggression and have been for generations.

If it's a roping event, then they are likely using Mexican roping cattle, like they do in the U.S. for roping events and the injuries would be accidental. They do not use the fighting bulls in 'rodeos' or roping events, too aggressive ... they don't run and once they had a horse down they would go for the rider. The horses that are the mounts for the rejoneadors in Spain are highly trained to work fighting bulls, have years of training and are not often injured seriously, or at least no more often than the toreadors, who fight on foot. The bulls are tricked into charging the cape ... or for rejoneadors, flags ... rather than the horse or the toreador.


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## CraterCove (Jan 24, 2011)

Molly Mckee said:


> I have no idea what that is, but if PETA is against it, it must be okay!


Yeah, you are probably absolutely correct.


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## SFM in KY (May 11, 2002)

I googled it and found a couple of YouTube clips. I was wrong ... they do use 'fighting bull' stock ... and after watching it, all I can say is ******* 'sports' do not exist only in the American south! The ******* attitude is obviously alive and well in Mexico!

One fighting bull in an arena ... and an arena full of 'cowboys' on horseback all trying to rope this bull, who is seriously trying to do damage to anyone and anything he can find that will hold still long enough to hit. Bred for aggression, not training ... so many cowboys that they are running into each other, couldn't possibly watch the bull ... saw one horse knocked down but got up and didn't look injured ... they carried the rider off!

As the saying goes, you can't fix stupid, even with duck tape!


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## CraterCove (Jan 24, 2011)

I wish we had someone on the board who had personal experience with this, had seen one or something.


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## SFM in KY (May 11, 2002)

I googled it and found a couple of YouTube clips. I was wrong ... they do use 'fighting bull' stock ... and after watching it, all I can say is ******* 'sports' do not exist only in the American south! The ******* attitude is obviously alive and well in Mexico!

One fighting bull in an arena ... and an arena full of 'cowboys' on horseback all trying to rope this bull, who is seriously trying to do damage to anyone and anything he can find that will hold still long enough to hit. Bred for aggression, not training ... so many cowboys that they are running into each other, couldn't possibly watch the bull ... saw one horse knocked down but got up and didn't look injured ... they carried the rider off!

As the saying goes, you can't fix stupid, even with duck tape! 

Definitely not my thing but I don't think American signatures on a PETA petition is going to do much to close this down and I'm not sure I'm totally against something that looks like it may have a high fatality rate among the ******* types ... regardless of ethnicity!


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## wr (Aug 10, 2003)

SFM, the first one I watched seemed focused on skill and abilities but did use a Mexican fighting bull but I did go back and watch a couple of others that showcased more of a hold my beer and watch this mentality. 

I have been down in Mexico often and have attended shows, various equine type competitions as well as having toured ranches on occasion and I would add that as a rule, Mexicans do not view their horses as pets, they are livestock or a tool intended to get the job done. I wouldn't consider them abusive but they sure aren't the same pampered pets we see in North America.


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## SFM in KY (May 11, 2002)

wr said:


> I would add that as a rule, Mexicans do not view their horses as pets, they are livestock or a tool intended to get the job done. I wouldn't consider them abusive but they sure aren't the same pampered pets we see in North America.


Very true. I grew up with the same outlook as well ... they are livestock and you take the best possible care of them you can, but they have a job to do. Cowboys, for the most part, had the same attitude toward themselves ... you get the job done, you take risks when necessary to get that job done.

I saw the same thing with the rejoneador horses in Spain ... they were well cared for, their training was extensive but they were expected to do the job they were bred and trained for regardless of the risks.

I found the rejoneador bullfights in Spain incredible ... the abilities of both horse and rider were amazing. I've also seen some video of Mexican reining competitions that were just as impressive ... incredible horsemanship. While, I didn't watch much of the Mexican YouTube Torneo videos, like you said, I did see quite a lot of the "hold my beer and watch this" attitude there ...


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## CraterCove (Jan 24, 2011)

I'm having problems with the images they are using in articles about this event. As someone pointed out elsewhere they all seem to be missing their tack and look to be taken on streets not in an arena like the events are held in.

Oh my gosh, the 'hold my beer crowd'... yeah they are who AFV gets most their videos from aren't they? And the Darwin awards draw heavily from them too I believe.


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## wr (Aug 10, 2003)

CraterCove said:


> Oh my gosh, the 'hold my beer crowd'... yeah they are who AFV gets most their videos from aren't they? And the Darwin awards draw heavily from them too I believe.


Baby cowboys are a never ending source of ill conceived notions and I can assure you that every gray hair I own comes from an individual source


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