# Low cost laptop computing



## Gary in ohio (May 11, 2002)

I have mentioned a number of times that computers need not be expensive. I have called out a number of times as has Nevada that the HP Elitebook series of computers are a great way to build up a low cost laptop. My mom who is in her late 70s decided last year to learn about computers a year ago. The main driver was being able to email and facebook with her sisters. My brother in law had an old dell windows 95 machines and she started using that. I didnt like the old outdated, security lacking OS so I went to find her something more manageable and secure. 

Taking a look at my goto HP elitebooks I found an HP 8540P. These are I5, nice business class machine, built tough and has most needed options that she would need. I found one on ebay for $79 shipped that included 8gb of ram, but no hard drive. The laptop comes with a COA for windows 7 pro and I have the media for it, but wanted to put her on Linux to make it a bit more secure and allow me better control over what she does on it. Also keeps the inlaw's fussing with her machine as they dont have root access. If you require windows and can use with windows 7 you can just buy the media and install with the attached COA. Linux may not meet your requirements but all my mom needed was a device to launch a web brower. With the exception of a couple of games, she only uses a browser. Since I was using linux 8gb was more than enough and I didnt need a huge hard disk for her to run on as she is not saving many files. I picked up a 128gb SSD drive for $20 shipped. OS was free and I had an external mouse she can uses since she hates the track pads almost as much as I do.

SO for just under $100 I was able to build out a VERY usable system, Has a nice keyboard, good battery(but she runs it power most of the time), has a built in camera, bluetooh for her speakers, has wifi a nice good contract screen for her older eyes. 

Since I was in a hurry to get a laptop I didnt wait around for any better deal on the laptop but I have purchased them for $49 in the past. Just read the ad to make sure what your getting with the laptop.. Many offlease dont have hard disk some dont have the doors that cover the disk as well. KNOW WHAT YOUR getting and you can get a nice deal for minimal cost outlay.


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## Nevada (Sep 9, 2004)

$79 for a hulk with 8GB memory is a really great deal. She probably would have been fine with 4GB, but 8GB is nice to have.


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## crehberg (Mar 16, 2008)

It is amazing how much cheaper computers are today. I can still vividly buying my first "personal" computer at home, a Gateway loaded with Windows 98 SE and a whopping 256 mb of ram...and I thought I was hot! It was a heck of a lot better than the old Packard Bell I had been using with MS DOS and a dot matrix printer.

Now my phone has more computing power than them both put together... 

Good deal, Gary! I haven't messed with building or rebuilding a computer in a long time...but you've got me itching! If you don't mind me asking, what Linux build did you install?


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## Nevada (Sep 9, 2004)

crehberg said:


> It is amazing how much cheaper computers are today.


In a sense, yes anyone can afford a computer today. But I remember the day when computers were evolving so quickly that a computer more than a few years old had virtually no value. That was because operating systems and hardware required more contemporary equipment. But now that the emphasis has gone to smart phones and tablets, computer evolution has slowed. Today a 6, 8 or even 10 year old computer is still perfectly suitable for use today with Windows 10.

So as inexpensive as used computer prices have become, their continued usefulness has allowed them to retain some resale value longer. I bought my current laptop about 18 months ago for $90. It would still be a good deal to find at $90 today.


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## Gary in ohio (May 11, 2002)

crehberg said:


> I haven't messed with building or rebuilding a computer in a long time...but you've got me itching! If you don't mind me asking, what Linux build did you install?


I use Ubuntu, for my desktop Linux distro.


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## GTX63 (Dec 13, 2016)

I recall paying $3500 for a Pentium 166 with a monitor and printer. I haven't spent that much on computers combined since that day including laptops and their replacements for my sons, daughter and wife.


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## frogmammy (Dec 8, 2004)

I spent about that $3500 to have the same computer built (minus printer) in the mid-90's. Six months later it was old hat. Decided after that to go cheap and use it until it dies. My "cheap" computer, bought at Sam's Club, was one of those that was either very good, or very bad. Luckily, I got the very good one, still works and is now my basement computer....if I should need to use it down there. Has my favorite EVER graphics program on it.

Mon


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## HermitJohn (May 10, 2002)

It all depends what you want to do with it. For basic home use, pretty much any computer with a multicore processor (if you have patience can buy working 2 core laptop for $15 shipped on ebay though most likely missing hard drive and power adapter) and even a very few top of line single core computers still perfectly usable. And if you just gotta have windows you can download an evaluation copy from Microsoft website, and run it unactivated indefinitely with Microsoft's blessings. No evaluation time limit with win10. They mostly just want people using windows. The only limitations running it unactivated are a watermark that bleeds through every screen. That and you are stuck with the dark blue default desktop wallpaper and also if you are stupid enough to want a global Microsoft account rather than just local account only on your computer, then I think unactivated win10 cant synch with other Microsoft computers. Saying that, if you block your computer phoning home to activation server using firewall, then it just assumes the server is down and doesnt impose the watermark or wallpaper limitation. 

I fooled lot with win10 and when locked down so its only serving one master, its fine even on older systems with only 2gb ram. But seriously once I got Kindle app working under WINE in Puppy, windows was just more hassle than it was worth. I now only have it on my ancient HP to run tax software once a year. 

My desktop is an old 2core AMD E-350 processor motherboard with 4GB RAM. Originally from an old Compaq 100B all in one unit, but I put it in an ancient ATX case with sticker on it that says Designed for Microsoft Windows 95...... Cost me $15 and it was mostly just an experiment, but it boots faster than the old HP single core, is super quiet, runs very cool, so use it daily with no problems. Cool and quiet as it runs, would guess it will last indefinitely until it is no longer fast enough to be useful.

Have pile of old laptops. One is a third generation i5 Elitebook. They are good laptop. If you dont know lot about laptops, and looking to buy a used one, this is what you want. Its fastest computer I own, but rarely use it. The laptop that gets used is an Acer Aspire Cloudbook 11.6 screen, very lightweight, no fan, and a 32GB soldered eMMC drive. Same hardware as low end Chromebooks but came with win10. Battery charge goes 6 to 8 hour. I got tired of battling with win10 keyboard/touchpad driver which Acer didnt seem interested in fixing and I have latest bios too. So after experimenting, found a linux its friendly with. I swear its very unfriendly to most linux taking forever to boot and shutting down with a large number of errors. But a beta Puppy Slacko64 (Slackware based) 6.9.9.9 with linux kernel 4.9.30 works great on it. Boots almost instantly and shuts down fast and cleanly. And I have WINE with the Kindle app. Its my main Kindle reader though have Kindle on both laptop and the desktop. No doubt this Puppy works best cause its got that 4.9.30 kernel which probably supports the hardware better.

Saying that any of my cheap ancient laptops do just fine if they were what I had to use. Takes some tweaking for best results. Owning old computer is like owning an old car. Those with most knowledge and experience are those that will get best results. Though they are also the people most likely to have a much better computer. Irony, gotta love it. Same even low end new computers. Those at bottom end like my little Acer Cloudbook or HP Stream or multiple others are so badly configured and bolluxed up and overburdened with mandatory win10 updates and only tiny storage drive and then spyware galore and bunch of crapware the manufacturer puts on them. Well those without knowledge to change things are doomed to failure and whole lot of frustration. Shame but way they are sold. They just arent powerful enough to serve multiple masters or run more than one program at same time. Though if you can clean them up and lock them down to only serving one master at a time, then they do fine.


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## Nevada (Sep 9, 2004)

HermitJohn said:


> One is a third generation i5 Elitebook. They are good laptop.


I'm using a 2nd generation i7. It's possible that you get better performance with a 3rd generation i5 than I get. That's a great computer.


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## HermitJohn (May 10, 2002)

I was suggesting any multi core processor. Might mention Intel sold some weird ones at turn of century. Not only was there single core processors that were hyperthreaded so could run a 64bit system, but there was also a "CoreDuo" with two cores that could only run 32bit system. Gotta love marketing huh? At time it was more a sales gimmick than anything else as most everything ran 32bit XP, there wasnt lot 64bit software out there. Luckily both of these are pretty rare at this point. But you want Core2Duo specified to run a 64bit system as earliest Intel. The hyperthreaded single core can indeed run 64bit but it will be slow doing so. 

Or better yet if you are buying something from XP/Vista era, do your homework on the processor to be sure it can do what you want it to do and run system you want to run. You want it to be able to use at least 4GB RAM. If running single core or COREDUO 32bit, there are PAE versions of 32bit linux that will let system use more than 2.5GB RAM that 32bit windows was limited to.


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## In The Woods (Apr 27, 2017)

I think it was 4-5 years ago my wife’s parents showed an interest of getting something to get on the internet. They are in their 70’s and never touched a computer in their lives.

We bought them a Chromebook for $180. The thing has been absolutely trouble free for those years and they find it simple to use.

My wife is soon to be laid up because of an upcoming knee surgery - all she uses is her 10+ year old desktop. I am going to get her a Chromebook also since she won’t be able to go upstairs to her computer.

If all one needs is internet and email you can’t beat the Chromebook. I once bought a cheap laptop and even after removing everything but the OS it was still dreadfully slow just surfing the internet. I was tempted this morning to buy her a new Acer 15” laptop that was on special at Staples for $200 but will get a Chromebook instead for around the same price because it will be 10x faster.


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## Nevada (Sep 9, 2004)

In The Woods said:


> I think it was 4-5 years ago my wife’s parents showed an interest of getting something to get on the internet. They are in their 70’s and never touched a computer in their lives.
> 
> We bought them a Chromebook for $180. The thing has been absolutely trouble free for those years and they find it simple to use.
> 
> ...


Great that Chrome OS worked out, but I would be hesitant to use anything but Windows because I can't support Chrome OS. Same for Andriod, Mac, and Linux desktops. When I bought a tablet for the kid I bought one with Windows for that reason. I just wouldn't know where to begin of I had to help someone over the phone with an operating system I wasn't familiar with. Despite my work with Linux servers I've always used Windows for an workstation for the same reason. I want to stay current with Windows so I can help people.

To give you an idea about how touchy support issues can be, I sent an HP 8560p laptop to my daughter for my grandkids to use for school. A few weeks after they started using it the touchpad suddenly stopped working. They tried everything, and searched exhaustively for the problem at forums online, yet found nothing helpful. Eventually they called me. Since I use the same model laptop I'm intimately familiar with the details. I explained that you turn the touchpad off and on by double tapping in the upper-left corner of the touchpad. My daughter double tapped where I told her and the touchpad came back alive. Evidently someone unwittingly double tapped at just the right place. While that was an equipment problem rather than an operating system issue, it illustrates how important it is to be familiar with what you might have to support.

I see android tablets and chromebooks for a lot less than Windows machines, but I'm not really tempted to learn a new operating system. Some people don't mind and that's fine. Whatever works for you.


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## HermitJohn (May 10, 2002)

I think I read some of the latest Chromebook systems can install and run Android apps. older ones cant. You are just locked into using Google system with very few options. I am sure this is fine for some that dont want to know anything about the hardware or software and just basically want a thin client terminal and have fast unlimited internet connection. Not great for somebody that doesnt want to be locked into only doing things the company way.

I played a lot with win10 but found especially on low power computers unless you block its secret nefarious activities, its going to be super slow and frustrating. Its main function is selling you stuff and collecting data to resell to secret third parties. (Apple and Google do it too as do many websites and third parties) If it limited itself to being best small operating system it could be, it really can be ok. It showed its better qualities with the Mata Hari stuff blocked. Truly annoying way M$ intends it to be used.

I have used desktop linux for so long now (especially various versions of Puppy), its just lot easier for me than fighting with win10. Seriously you shouldnt have to fight both external malware/hackers and also your own operating system. I want a system that I control, not one that controls me. I want to be the user not the product.


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## Gary in ohio (May 11, 2002)

HermitJohn said:


> I think I read some of the latest Chromebook systems can install and run Android apps. older ones cant. You are just locked into using Google system with very few options. I am sure this is fine for some that dont want to know anything about the hardware or software and just basically want a thin client terminal and have fast unlimited internet connection. Not great for somebody that doesnt want to be locked into only doing things the company way.


I look at a chromebook as well since most of what she does is web, but its a bit slower and screens tend to be lower quaility and unless your paying big bucks much smaller. With an older parent the larger brighter screen was a big plus. As for support. chome has teamviewer support so you can allways connect in and see whats happening if they have at least network access.


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## In The Woods (Apr 27, 2017)

I understand what you guys in the field are saying about the Chromebook. But for my in-laws it has been perfect. Other than a possible hardware failure there is really nothing to go wrong.

And as far as software, apps, etc. people like them have no use for them.


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## Nevada (Sep 9, 2004)

In The Woods said:


> I understand what you guys in the field are saying about the Chromebook. But for my in-laws it has been perfect. Other than a possible hardware failure there is really nothing to go wrong.
> 
> And as far as software, apps, etc. people like them have no use for them.


As I said, if it works for them then great. I have no objection.

But just so you know, I don't spend anywhere near $180 for a laptop. In rebuilding off-lease HP business class laptops I try to keep the total investment in the $100 to $125 range. When selling a refurbished laptop it will usually bring in the neighborhood of $250.


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## no really (Aug 7, 2013)

In The Woods said:


> I understand what you guys in the field are saying about the Chromebook. But for my in-laws it has been perfect. Other than a possible hardware failure there is really nothing to go wrong.
> 
> And as far as software, apps, etc. people like them have no use for them.


My grandparents all have Chromebooks, they are very satisfied. They previously had various brands of laptops, as they phased out were replaced with Chromebooks. They like the portability that the smaller size affords too.


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## HermitJohn (May 10, 2002)

I explained to some folk long ago that they could basically set up a malware/virus proof system. Just run linux off a live cd/dvd. Once the cd is burned and session is closed, nothing else can write to it or change anything. Not physically possible. The most that might be accomplished is to make the cd unbootable. Either custom burn it with settings you need already there, or some live cds allow you to save settings to some writable drive and use those settings when booting up again.

I used to have an elderly friend (gone now) that would call me frequently to fix his computer. I swear, sometimes it was like he just punched random buttons willy nilly. Yea had forgotten was windows 95. Maybe he did do it on purpose just to have a visitor? Many times easiest just to reinstall the operating system and settings. Unfortunately that was way back before the live cds or thats way I would set up his computer. Means he could do his darnedest to screw up computer and when he rebooted, just like new install.

So yea I get that for some people the Chromebooks are attractive for that very reason. But you are putting lot trust in Google that runs the system you basically log into. So far corporations havent had the greatest record for protecting personal data of their customers.

And Chromebook system can crash and burn. Run across used ones on ebay that cant regenerate themselves, they need somebody to download and reinstall the Chrome operating system fresh from usb drive. Of course the users of such are completely clueless how to do this...... since they bought the Chromebook to avoid ever having to look under the hood so to speak.


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## HermitJohn (May 10, 2002)

Recently my desktop went belly up, powers up, fan spins, dead ports and no display. Figure capacitor or something. Can still get a duplicate of the Compaq 100B motherboard off ebay for $18 shipped. But I have that pile of old laptops... and waste not, want not.

Pulled one off the top, it was HP ZE2000. Cheapie laptop from 2005. Single core 1.6ghz processor (Sempron 2800+) and I guess I or somebody had maxed out RAM to 2GB. Think it originally came with like 256MB. It was a low end laptop when new and it didnt get any higher end over the years.

Anyway I mounted it to wall and hooked in desktop monitor and usb keyboard and mouse. It had an IDE hard drive at some point so I still need $3.50 converter to put SSD out of the desktop in it. Right now booting Puppy Linux off old (and kinda slow) usb thumb drive. Even like that it works amazingly well, 32bit Chromium-67 browser doesnt lag. Using it right now to post this. My biggest complaint is that it fires up its turbo props every little bit when processor goes under even small load. I had gotten used to the silent fanless mini laptop and the desktop with the small really quiet fan. Had forgotten how noisy older computers are.

Just saying the cheapest laptop is probably the one you already own. And it doesnt take much of a computer for usual basic home computer needs.


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## HermitJohn (May 10, 2002)

Little further update, this HP ZE2000 (and I am sure other of last generation single core processor computers be similar) are still servicable. I now have Thunderbird and Libre Office and my AisleRiot solitaire games installed. All I can say bad about the thing, it takes a little longer to boot and little longer to load large programs like Libre. But otherwise, you probably couldnt tell it from low end 2018 computer, especially one suffering from win10 bloat and update mania. Least for most home type use. People give up on older technology too quick IMHO.

I did move everything from the thumb drive to SSD out of my old desktop, but still connected with usb, waiting on adapter to connect to IDE where old hard drive was. Anyway as experiment plugged it into a two core with 4GB. Yep its faster for sure, but the old single core does fine. I am sure it will boot faster once I get the IDE adapter. Everything going back and forth through usb is bit of bottleneck.


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## HermitJohn (May 10, 2002)

Sorting through box of parts and found a 99cent computer I bought off ebay. Yea, 99cents and free shipping. Obviously they didnt intend to sell it like this as it cost them probably $10 to mail it to me. But it was outfit that sells lot stripped computers so if they lose some on a sale occasionally.... 

Anyway no screen, no lid, no keyboard. Just some loose wires hanging out. They sold it as able to boot to bios using an external monitor. When I got it, no display with external monitor, so I tossed it in parts box. Well got to thinking when I saw it again, I never opened it up to check if it had RAM as I just assumed since they said it booted to bios that it had some. It didnt. I found a loose 1GB stick RAM and put into it. Bingo, it booted. Its 2.2ghz core2duo. Has a win7 sticker on it. Actually runs Puppy via usb quite nicely even with only 1GB RAM. I was pleasantly surprised. Its noticably faster than the ZE2000 so it probably going to be my wall laptop instead. Obviously I am never going to make it into a functional portable laptop again. Even the wifi adapter card in it works well. Ports are live. Trackpad works nice. Looks like scrap though.

So yes Virginia, there are such things as working 99cent computers...... well if you have some spare parts lying around.... Beat that Raspberry Pi!


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## HermitJohn (May 10, 2002)

Yea, Puppy identified this partial laptop as an Asus U50A. It has a win7 sticker on it. Anyway the remains of it doesnt have a high quality feel, think it was originally sold as low end consumer model, but it is very reliable and plenty fast, especially upping RAM to 2GB. It can handle more but Puppy doesnt need it. If you were running windows, you would want at least 4GB.

Puppy Slacko64 6.9.9.9 ran fine on it but for some reason it would hang on shut down no matter what I tried. No other linux did. So tried Puppy Xenialpup64 7.5CE with similar recent linux kernel. This shuts down fine and feels very traditional Puppy Linux though its based on Ubuntu. Whats interesting is that more I use it, the better it works. No idea why. And Xenialpup has app that runs all time in tray showing processor temperature. This is very steady and low, Asus did a good job with this model I think.

Gotta say these U50A arent exactly common, but if I were looking for cheap laptop and ran across one complete in good shape, would go upto $50 for it and replace hard drive with an SSD. Much rather have one of these than current cheap celeron with 32GB eMMC drive soldered to motherboard that cant be upgraded. The core2duo is faster than the two core celeron.


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## 4tu (Jul 24, 2018)

Puppy is an excellent choice for size speed and the ability to fun if from a usb stick.


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## HermitJohn (May 10, 2002)

4tu said:


> Puppy is an excellent choice for size speed and the ability to fun if from a usb stick.


I gotta say usb thumb drive ok, but if you buy a decent name brand one, you just as well buy a small SSD same size and usb adapter if you want usb. SSD is faster and more reliable long term. Not lot price difference.

SSD with usb adapter only serious work around on those current low end laptops with the 32GB eMMC drive soldered to motherboard. and no internal ports to connect an SSD or hard drive. Especially if you insist on keeping win10, not sure why you would as obnoxious as it is out of box, but if you do.... 32GB isnt big enough for win10 to even do all its updates, forget actually installing any other software. First do clean install of win10 from M$ website, the version that comes on the 32GB eMMC drives is bit different than normal install so better to get rid of it. Anyway regular win10home will activate since activation is via internet, not dependent on hidden keys and such. Then use free version wintousb to move win10 to the external usb drive. It will then boot from this external drive. You give up a little speed initially booting to win10 desktop this way, but once its up about same speed using it.

I am not sure why anybody would prefer win10 on a non-gaming low end computer, but each their own. Having an operating system that isnt constantly doing marketing updates and secret data collection, is priceless.


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## 4tu (Jul 24, 2018)

I find old computers and give them out after I have formatted and installed a version of linux they run like a bat out of hell.

for any newbie some versions are a perfect fit if it has issues like the system cannot see drives attached or problems with your network card sound or running video just try another Linux distribution. I like ones that are not overly large like LinuxLite MXLinux most all the versions of Puppy, in order to sidestep newer malware viruses and bad code more recent version with a newer core are safe.


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