# Making bleach from scratch experiment



## CajunSunshine (Apr 24, 2007)

I want to make bleach from scratch, using water, iron nails, salt and solar (or other alternate form of) electricity.

Why bother making bleach? It's cheap and readily available right now, but may not be after the SHTF. Liquid bleach is valuable for disinfection of drinking water but has such a pitifully short shelf life, so it might be prudent if someone in the community knew how to make bleach...from scratch. Of course, for safety reasons this procedure is not for the average household, but a working knowledge of how it can be done, and all the safety implications, might not be a bad thing.

Yeah, I know...stock up on high test granulated pool shock (calcium hypochlorite), but what to do after that's gone, or the shelf life has expired? Because of the newest 'upgrades' in all pool shock formulations, the shelf life is no longer 36 months...it is now 24 months. (Using high test pool shock is a commonly accepted/approved way to make a concentrated stock chlorine solution from which a small amount is added to a large quantity of water to disinfect it. More on that later.)

I've Googled myself silly looking for clear and safe instructions how to make it...there's not a lot out there...so I'd like to toss around bits of what I have found, and see what ya'll make of it. If you know anything about chemistry, please speak up!

(How dangerous is this lil' experiment, if I follow all precautions? Will an accidental whiff of the resulting gas kill me, or cause lasting harm... or would it take more than a tiny bit to do the job of finishing me off?)

Here's a few selected bits and pieces of info I've collected on the subject of making bleach. See what you think....




> How is bleach made?
> 
> Sodium hypochlorite bleach is usually created in one of these two ways:
> The cheapest and safest was is by creating a concentrated brine solution by dissolving salt (sodium chloride) in softened water (H20). By running electricity through this solution, sodium hypochlorite forms in water. This solution contains 150 g active chlorine (Cl2) per liter. During the electrolyzing reaction, explosive hydrogen gas is also formed. This is the safest way? Actually, yes.
> ...


 


> http://www.myfreebulletinboard.com/f...showtopic=2291
> 
> HOW TO MAKE BLEACH:
> Make sure you perform this experiment outside or in a well-ventilated room with no smoking, because flammable hydrogen gas is involved.
> ...


(I would add a candy thermometer to the list)




> The first step is to get the pot and fill it with water. Then get some salt, and add it to the water until the water can hold no more.


(I assume this means a super saturated solution...enough salt is added until no more can be dissolved in the water.)




> Then connect a nail, using wire, to a terminal of the battery charger or computer power supply.


(If this works, I would like to convert this kind of power to solar or other alternate power... )





> Do the same for the other nail and terminal. If you are using a computer power supply, remember that the connector with a colored wire is one terminal and the connector directly next to it (usually it has a black wire) is another. Even though there are four connectors, you will only be using those two.
> 
> Drop the connected nails into the pot with salt water. Turn on the battery charger or power supply. You should soon see tiny bubbles in the bucket. If you don't, something is wrong. Stay away from the bucket; it can involve flammable and poisonous gas.


(Do not accidentally breathe this gas! Stay upwind of the project!)




> The temperature of the water should never exceed 90 deg. F. Make sure to put some ice around the bucket to cool the water.


(I would use a candy thermometer here. It's a big glass thermometer that can be used in any boiling hot liquid, and can float or it can be clipped to the edge of the pot.)





> Leave the bucket alone for a day, then turn off the power supply, and take out the nails.
> 
> Put the pot on the stove at full power and heat the pot. After a considerable amount of the water has boiled, you should start seeing a powder accumulate at the bottom of the pot. When it appears that no more powder is accumlating, turn off the stove.


(Shouldn't this part also be done outdoors, as well?)





> Wait for the water to cool down, then pour everything into the other bucket, making sure that it is through the coffee filter. The filter will catch the powder, and let the "depleted" salt water flow through into the bucket. If the filter gets full, empty it out in a separate container (not the pot), and continue pouring. When you are finished, pour the water in the bucket back into the pot. To make the bleach, put tap water in the bucket you just emptied, and add the powder to it, making sure that the ratio is 200 grams of powder for every gallon of tap water.
> 
> The water in the pot still has some salt in it; therefore it can be used toward the salt requirement for the next batch.





> What are the dangers of misusing bleach?
> 
> Bleach is made up of sodium, oxygen and chlorine, some of the most reactive of all chemicals. When bleach reacts with another substance, or is broken down in any way, these chemicals are released in ways that are rarely beneficial to biology.
> 
> ...


More questions: 

I am still exploring what could go wrong...especially all the 'Be Careful' parts...please, your input!

For instance, I wonder what happens (besides boiling) if the water gets too hot...will something blow up or what? Will the water turn into an inferno? What would happen if the ice does not do a quick enough job of cooling it?

If I work upwind of the project...and take all precautions to avoid inhaling the hydrogen gas, and Murphy's Law takes effect, and I get a little whiff anyway... how bad is one or two small whiffs?

Also, I wonder if the hydrogen gas will react to any accidental spark caused by the power supply?


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## unregistered29228 (Jan 9, 2008)

Interesting thread....I love bleach for disinfection and laundry, and the pool of course. I soak fruits I get at the grocery in a bleach water solution (canteloupe are the dirtiest with all those nooks and crannies on the rind). I have a lot of it stockpiled, but it gets used quickly.

Good luck making bleach! Be careful, and please post your results....


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## ChristyACB (Apr 10, 2008)

Every option you've posted seems very dangerous! Be ever so careful, keep your eyebrows and let us know how it went!


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## Randy Rooster (Dec 14, 2004)

I think Id stock up on pool shock and forget the science experiment. How much bleach are you going to be able to make in your kitchen? How much bleach do you need? Arent there safer and easier ways to sanitize than hoping you dont blow yourself up or something?


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## hintonlady (Apr 22, 2007)

Sounds about as dangerous as a meth lab, LOL.

I would just caution you to please be careful, even if it works. It's too easy to forget how dangerous something is, especially when it is something we are accustomed to. Even after many great tries you could end up with a random "oopsie" moment, maybe even one beyond your control like humidity in the air or?????

Don't get overly confident, even with practice  Treat every pot of hydrogen gas like a potential Hindenburg and you should keep your eyebrows from getting singed off.


BTW did these websites you visited have a disclaimer? If it is seriously dangerous most places would have a big warning for legalities.


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## anniew (Dec 12, 2002)

Ummmm. Where are you going to get ice (for the second method) in a SHTF situation?


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## Freeholder (Jun 19, 2004)

A substitute for bleach that I've seen suggested (for disinfecting dairy items, including cheesecloth [muslin]) is lye water, which is much simpler to make than bleach. Simply pour pure water through clean wood ashes (don't burn trash), and save the resulting water in a container that won't corrode. Protect your hands when using -- it's not as strong as the concentrated lye you can buy in the stores, but it will still burn you. Wash promptly if you get any on your skin or in your eyes.

Kathleen

ETA: Sunshine is also a good disinfectant.


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## hintonlady (Apr 22, 2007)

I was under the impression that it must be ash from hard woods. 

Someone can set up a system pretty easily by using a rain gutter and a barrel with the ash.

If you boil the water needing to be disinfected with hard wood and reserve the ash for lye you would have an almost self contained system....assuming finding wood is a non issue.

Sunshine is great but you can also boil things to disinfect like linens for instance. Sunshine is good to fade stains a tad too.


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## CajunSunshine (Apr 24, 2007)

I've edited my original post to reflect this:


Why bother making bleach? It's cheap and readily available right now, but may not be after the SHTF. *Liquid bleach is valuable for disinfection of drinking water but has such a pitifully short shelf life, so it might be prudent if someone in the community knew how to make bleach...from scratch. Of course, for safety reasons this procedure is not for the average household, but a working knowledge of how it can be done, and all the safety implications, might not be a bad thing.*

Yeah, I know...stock up on high test granulated pool shock (calcium hypochlorite), but what to do after that's gone, or the shelf life has expired? *Because of the newest 'upgrades' in all pool shock formulations, the shelf life is no longer 36 months...it is now 24 months.* (Using high test pool shock is a commonly accepted/approved way to make a concentrated stock chlorine solution from which a small amount is added to a large quantity of water to disinfect it. More on that later.)

*This experiment is NOT in the interests of having nice and tidy white laundry, or keeping the pool clean! In a post SHTF situation, bleach is very, very nice to have, for water purification and other critical sanitation purposes, such as flood cleanup, etc. etc.).*

BTW, I am only in the info gathering and research stage...I'm not in a hurry to blow myself up...but because bleach has such a short life span, and is one of the most valuable items in a post SHTF situations, I'll bet more than a few folks would be interested to see if this can be done (myself mostly)...

I know this is not your average kitchen table experiment, which is why I'll be doing this outside, upwind on a breezy day, in the depths of winter...after I've done all the 'homework' I possibly can, of course!


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## CajunSunshine (Apr 24, 2007)

anniew said:


> Ummmm. Where are you going to get ice (for the second method) in a SHTF situation?


Unless one had access to an old fashioned icehouse (blocks cut from frozen lake/pond water), this would be strictly a wintertime project.

Ideally, enough concentrated granulated chlorine could be made to last for a couple of years...any surplus could be a valuable gift or barter item in austere situations...


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## Guest (Jul 7, 2008)

I'm very interested in how your experiements come out. Do keep us posted.

In a long-term survival situation this could be of vital importance.

.....Alan.


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## hintonlady (Apr 22, 2007)

CajunSunshine said:


> *This experiment is NOT in the interests of having nice and tidy white laundry, or keeping the pool clean! In a post SHTF situation, bleach is very, very nice to have, for water purification and other critical sanitation purposes, such as flood cleanup, etc. etc.).*
> 
> 
> Hard to know unless you are specific in your original post.
> ...


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## CowgirlGloria (Jun 19, 2008)

I am too far away from my chemistry studies to be of help. If I were going to try something like this, however, I would strongly consider wearing a mask during production.

Keep us posted on it, Ok?


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## Freeholder (Jun 19, 2004)

You can get lye from the ashes of soft woods, also. It's supposedly stronger from hardwoods, but will still work. Some places don't have much in the way of hardwoods, so would have to use softwoods.

Kathleen


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## hintonlady (Apr 22, 2007)

CowgirlGloria said:


> I am too far away from my chemistry studies to be of help. If I were going to try something like this, however, I would strongly consider wearing a mask during production.
> 
> Keep us posted on it, Ok?



You may want to be more specific. Are we talking a halloween mask, a gas mask or a bandit mask? :lonergr:


I'm thinking a tiki mask while I study the chemical reaction of polynesian cocktails on my speech patterns would be much less dangerous.


How much is hydrogen worth in barter if SHTF? Since it is a byproduct of bleach production, hmmmmm. May not be such a bad idea afterall.:banana02:


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## CowgirlGloria (Jun 19, 2008)

hintonlady said:


> You may want to be more specific. Are we talking a halloween mask, a gas mask or a bandit mask? :lonergr:


Yeah, right. 

I was figuring a Halloween mask of one of our beloved politicians, of course!


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## Trixters_muse (Jan 29, 2008)

Ammonium Nitrate can be used to make ice.

When mixed with water, it creates an endothermic reaction that can lower temperatures enough to create ice. 


I think it's a good idea to at least have the knowledge and the supplies to make some of these items because you never know when you may need them.

I'm in no hurry to blow my eyebrows off either, but I do have the instructions to make instant hot ice in case I need it.


I am now adding this info on bleach to my growing stack of "how to" info sheets so thank you very much for posting it.



Better to have and not need than to need and not have.


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## BTO (Feb 7, 2007)

I used to buy B-K powder to sanitize milking equipment. I think I used to mix 1/8 teaspoon per gallon. It smelled like bleach. Maybe that would be a solution. I know a pint container lasted me years,


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## Space Cowboy (Apr 26, 2008)

OK The reason you can't find a lot of info on it is the same reason it is difficult to find out how to build explosives (things like nitroglycerin for example). Chlorine gas was used in WW1 as a VERY deadly gas. It killed untold amounts of soldiers. Those that weren't killed outright, suffered very painful and slow deaths. 

Chlorine was the main ingredient for bleach for a long time. They stopped making bleach that way a few decades ago. Sodium hypochlorlite is a stable (and hard to extract chlorine) type of bleach. 

If you can ever get your hands on some encyclopedias from 1920 or so, they will show you how to make all sorts of things that would horrify the government. One of those things is how to make choline gas! I won't get into details, but basically heating a saturated salt solution is all thats needed.

PLEASE PLEASE BE SURE YOU KNOW WHAT YOU ARE DOING. Chlorine gas is VERY dangerous!


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## Guest (Jul 8, 2008)

He doesn't need chlorine gas. In fact if he had the gas he wouldn't be needing to make sodium hypochlorite.

He's got the method he wants already.


> Sodium hypochlorite bleach is usually created in one of these two ways:
> The cheapest and safest was is by creating a concentrated brine solution by dissolving salt (sodium chloride) in softened water (H20). By running electricity through this solution, sodium hypochlorite forms in water. This solution contains 150 g active chlorine (Cl2) per liter. During the electrolyzing reaction, explosive hydrogen gas is also formed. This is the safest way? Actually, yes.


 Salt, water, electricity, a few iron nails.

The biggest concern is going to be adequate ventilation so that they hydrogen does not build up to explosive levels. Do it outside and that won't be a problem in the amounts that he's going to be making.

Use a non-reactive pot to cook the salt water in. Non-reactive as is glass, ceramic, or enamel.

.....Alan.


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## hintonlady (Apr 22, 2007)

non reactive, hmmmmm.........

Alan, I knew we kept you around here for something, LOL.


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## CajunSunshine (Apr 24, 2007)

hintonlady said:


> CajunSunshine said:
> 
> 
> > This experiment is NOT in the interests of having nice and tidy white laundry, or keeping the pool clean! In a post SHTF situation, bleach is very, very nice to have, for water purification and other critical sanitation purposes, such as flood cleanup, etc. etc.).
> ...



LOL! I will have a fire extinguisher handy, too! Fortunately I'm not giving anyone fits. My relatives do not know about this (yet). They're used to this kind of stuff, anyway. 

In answer to all the commercial angles of the experiment that you brought out...nah. I'm not personally interested in that aspect at all. I do enjoy my peace and quiet (aside from accidental explosions that I might be responsible for...lol), and I am too much of a recluse to deal with John Q. Public like that. My main interest in posting the experiment in public is to share (my demise or success) with others, and to _bounce ideas around...maybe, hopefully even find someone else who has done this, or has contemplated making bleach 'from scratch'_ (that'd be sooo wonderful...'misery loves company'! lol).

I plan on researching the dickens out of this before I do it...and if it looks like I'll be involved in something like the Hindenburg or a hydrogen bomb or even slightly lesser SHTF situations in my corner of the world, I ain't gonna do it.

Yes, lots of folks know about making sand filters, and other methods of water purification, all good to know.

This thread is simply a deeper exploration of another method. (As you said, I guess I should have been more specific in pointing this out better in the original post.) Bleach is one of the most commonly recommended ways of purifying water, next to boiling water, of course. Because fuel is often in such short supply in many SHTF situations, bleach is considered the next best low cost and readily available method for water purification and other critial sanitizing needs.

Unfortunately, bleach has a dangerously short shelf life. It is dangerous in the sense that liquid bleach degrades so rapidly that many people do not realize how much less 'protection' they are getting with purifying water with bleach that's older than 9 months old, as compared with fresh-bought. (Here's more info about the short shelf life of bleach... http://chemistry.about.com/b/2007/10/02/chlorine-bleach-shelf-life.htm )

Granulated pool shock (calcium hypochlorite) may not always be available for (xyz) reasons.

In a particularly severe (as in prolonged and/or widespread) SHTF situation, having knowledge about all possible options for survival could be beneficial to yourself and those around you.

Alan's observation sums up neatly and simply what this project is about...


> In a long-term survival situation this could be of vital importance.


In the light of all these things, it makes perfect sense to me to want to think outside the box sometimes, and explore a little deeper into the realm of self sufficiency.

I'm just nuts that way, I guess. LOL

--Sharon


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## CowgirlGloria (Jun 19, 2008)

No, Sharon, you are NOT nuts! I think it is well worth researching, and going deeper into it. There is probably a way to do it safely. If you make soap at home (my favorite kitchen chemistry), you probably already have much of the safety equipment you would need. I am concerned about the gases that would form, though, and so some form of air filtration would be of benefit, I think. Just counting on being downwind of it outside ... that would make me a bit uncomfortable, personally. But perhaps there is a low-tech way to give yourself a bit more protection.


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## WayneR (Mar 26, 2007)

Trixters Muse,
Powdered ferric chloride can be mixed with water to create heat using the method you described previously.

While not germain to the topic, it does suggest uses for expended hot & cold packs used in emergency situations. The cold pack liquid can be used as fertiliser and the hot could be used to etch printed circuit boards. This assumes that the chemicals mentioned are the ones actually used.


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## StL.Ed (Mar 6, 2011)

Hello all, I'm new here, and ran across this (somewhat) older thread in a roundabout way, which seems, somehow, fitting.
I was reading the "Bleach???" thread in the Homesteading Questions forum. Having run across MSR's MIOX water purifiers for camping, I decided to Google "making bleach from salt" and circled right back here. Serendipity at work in the universe!
So, I gotta ask -- Did anyone try this? Were the results promising, even on a small scale (perhaps starting from a cup or so of saturated solution)? I didn't find an outcome in a forum search for "making bleach" (but I didn't find this thread either by that route  maybe I need to refine my search technique).

Thanks,
Ed


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## texican (Oct 4, 2003)

I am a steadfast proponent of learning to live with your local flora and fauna... drink your native water source, untreated, and build up a resistance to any little boogers that might harm a citified sterilista. I've been drinking my water for over 20 years, without a problem. Also don't mind clothes getting that aged look. I don't really need to have perfectly cleaned shirts or pants... little discoloration patina adds to the character... A jug of bleach usually dies, from sitting on the shelf for years.


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## Harry Chickpea (Dec 19, 2008)

The redox requires significant amounts of electricity, which is why the bulk of chlorine production was/is performed near major power sources (ie: Niagara Falls).

IIRC the salt process makes sodium hydroxide (washing soda) as well.


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## Ernie (Jul 22, 2007)

Space Cowboy said:


> OK The reason you can't find a lot of info on it is the same reason it is difficult to find out how to build explosives (things like nitroglycerin for example). Chlorine gas was used in WW1 as a VERY deadly gas. It killed untold amounts of soldiers. Those that weren't killed outright, suffered very painful and slow deaths.
> 
> Chlorine was the main ingredient for bleach for a long time. They stopped making bleach that way a few decades ago. Sodium hypochlorlite is a stable (and hard to extract chlorine) type of bleach.
> 
> ...



Man, the stuff you space cowboys know.


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## Ernie (Jul 22, 2007)

texican said:


> I am a steadfast proponent of learning to live with your local flora and fauna... drink your native water source, untreated, and build up a resistance to any little boogers that might harm a citified sterilista. I've been drinking my water for over 20 years, without a problem. Also don't mind clothes getting that aged look. I don't really need to have perfectly cleaned shirts or pants... little discoloration patina adds to the character... A jug of bleach usually dies, from sitting on the shelf for years.


Well, bud, the aged look goes with the territory, and the discoloration patina adding to the character ... well ... I guess that depends where the discoloration patina is located. Some of that "character" I'd like to keep between me and my laundress. 

I don't use bleach. I use vinegar, which (when I don't buy it) is a natural byproduct of failed winemaking.


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## GardenNut (Sep 7, 2010)

Okay, first of all, I think that the dangers outweigh the positives. That being said:

1.) Do this outdoors. You don't want chlorine gas or hydrogen gas in your house. Chlorine gas will fill the bottom of your lungs, and stay there. They used to turn people upside down to try to clear their lungs of the gas, with limited success. Hydrogen gas is lighter than air and should (note I said "should") dissipate quickly.

2.) My biggest fear is that a spark could be created if the two nails are close enough together. In the confines of the pot, there could be enough hydrogen gas that it could explode.

3.) You can't just throw a bunch of salt in some water and expect it to be saturated. Pour extra salt in your water, and I mean a lot of extra, and let it "soak" for a good week, preferably in a warm place. Pour off your saturated saline solution. Make sure you don't use iodized salt. In fact, I'm not really sure that salt used for food purposes is really pure enough.

The bleach you make will only last a very short time, even in a glass bottle. Like maybe a couple of days if you're lucky. Is it really worth it?


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## ||Downhome|| (Jan 12, 2009)

this just in the bust of suspected covert drug lab,actually was a survivalist bleach factory.


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## Ernie (Jul 22, 2007)

Heh. 

Anytime any instructions include "do this right or you might die" then I automatically skip that project. I have acute "can't-follow-the-instructions" disorder.


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## Harry Chickpea (Dec 19, 2008)

Uhhh, y'all know that this same technique is commonly used to chlorinate swimming pools, right? Silver electrodes are used, but the process is the same.


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## Spinner (Jul 19, 2003)

I don't use bleach, I use vinegar to clean veggies, clean the house, clean the laundry, etc. My other cleaning agent is soda powder.


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## StL.Ed (Mar 6, 2011)

Thanks for the responses. Let me put a little background to my thoughts:
I know that MSR's MIOX water purifier is a small chlorinator, but I don't know if the electronics in it step up the voltage, or the amperage, or both (or if it matters);
and, as Harry mentioned, salt water swimming pools use electricity to generate chlorine in the water;
and, boiling water in a pressure cooker to 240 degrees will kill things (cryptosporidium?) that even bleach has a hard time with, so water purification is a bit of a moot point;
however, it might be necessary to sanitze an area as an infirmary, or for emergency surgery (animal or human) since infections could be likely to kill the patient, even if the operation is a success.
Making bleach might be possible when nothing else is available that would work as well.
Thanks,
Ed

p.s. The hydrogen gas doesn't bother me much. I'm old enough that we did an experiment in a grade school science class (7th grade IIRC) where we broke water into oxygen and hydrogen using electricity, and collected the gasses in test tubes. That would have been the late sixties, when lawsuits weren't a problem. You could tell which gas was which - from H2O there should be more hydrogen than oxygen, plus oxygen made a candle burn brighter, hydrogen caused a pop when exposed to the flame; then just remember which gas came from which wire.
Chlorine gas, on the other hand, scares the bageezus out of me, even with good ventilation and/or a hood.


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## PyroDon (Jul 30, 2006)

> =Space Cowboy;3182256]OK The reason you can't find a lot of info on it is the same reason it is difficult to find out how to build explosives (things like nitroglycerin for example)


.

actually its because most have no clue where to look 
Its not hard at all to find many sources on the manufacture of chemicals and explosives . They tend to appear to be extremely technical but in reality they break to basic reactions and techniques .
I would suggest for the purpose of after a SHTF that you look towards older chemistry resources that to show the techniques first used . These often do not require fancy equipment. Granted you will need cathodes and anodes of various high purity metals .
Oh and on Nitro keep in mind it has a very low flash point around 70 degree F and the chemical reaction creates a lot of heat . the basic chemicals are simple . the recipe and cooking instructions are where people get in trouble . Unlike a cake when you fail to pay complete attention to the details it will kill you.



> Chlorine gas was used in WW1 as a VERY deadly gas. It killed untold amounts of soldiers. Those that weren't killed outright, suffered very painful and slow deaths.


Chlorine gas was use though not often
mustard gas was the preferred weapon
3(HO-CH2CH2)2S + 2PCl3 &#8594; 3(Cl-CH2CH2)2S + 2P(OH)3
two very nasty creations 



> PLEASE PLEASE BE SURE YOU KNOW WHAT YOU ARE DOING. Chlorine gas is VERY dangerous!


Amen 
and as with the case in nearly any form of electrolysis pay close attention to the voltage and cathodes chemical properties . Iron nails are seldom pure iron , carbons, cadiums, nickle ,zinc all add to the chemical reactions .


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## PyroDon (Jul 30, 2006)

||Downhome|| said:


> this just in the bust of suspected covert drug lab,actually was a survivalist bleach factory.


Funny 
But trust me LEOs get really nosy when your in lab overalls with a gas mask and have two tables in the yard with various plastic bags of white and colored powders . Im sure the triple beam scales added to the impression ..
Thankfully I dont live in the republic of texas where I could get 5 years for simply having my lab glass and scales .

It wasnt really any problem , simply an LEO doing his job , when details and the laws were explained , he simply said thats cool where do you learn this stuff.


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