# Shell Houses



## davidj (Nov 2, 2005)

Anybody out there had a metal house built? There's several companies that put them up. We've been talking with Cleary. Basically they put up a shell with floor and insulation. 1960sqft for around $40K. 

What about a wooden shell? There's local company Lucky Lumber here in sw MO that will put up a wood shell 1344sqft for around $12K with no floor or insulation.

I can do some finishing work, run electric lines, some plumbing, maybe interior walls, but there's no way I can build a house, so both of these are looking appealing right now.

I'd like to hear your feedback on experiences with these types of structures. Thanks.


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## Otter (Jan 15, 2008)

My only experiences aren't with metal houses, but barns ( a small barn will have similar sq footage thought) and you will need a LOT of insulation. If the sun is shining on it on the outside, you can put your hand a foot away from the wall on the inside and feel the heat. You get away with it with barn and shop buildings because they're so open and often that big door stays open.

I wouldn't do it, but if you do, concentrate on the insulation. And roof vents.


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## deaconjim (Oct 31, 2005)

Spend a few weekends working on a Habitat house and you might learn enough to do the framing yourself.


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## Danaus29 (Sep 12, 2005)

Have you checked the prices of a block building? That would be my structure of choice.

Compared to the house I'm living in 1960 sqft is HUGE!!! I wouldn't know what to do with all the extra room.


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## davidj (Nov 2, 2005)

deaconjim said:


> Spend a few weekends working on a Habitat house and you might learn enough to do the framing yourself.


Thanks for the suggestion. Actually, I have volunteered with the local Habitat org. We only do about 1 house each year. Unfortunately, the day when they did the framing type work coincided with prior obligations, so I missed that.


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## davidj (Nov 2, 2005)

Danaus29 said:


> Have you checked the prices of a block building? That would be my structure of choice.
> 
> Compared to the house I'm living in 1960 sqft is HUGE!!! I wouldn't know what to do with all the extra room.


Thanks for the suggestion. I haven't contacted anyone about block. I don't know anything about working with it though, and I figured there'd be a huge labor cost involved. I should check into some local contractors.

With 4 homeschooled kids still at home, we like to have the room for everyone to find a place to study. We also like to have plenty of space for food storage.


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## jwal10 (Jun 5, 2010)

Wood shell? You talking about a pole shed, wood or metal siding? How about a stud type building on a concrete slab with concrete footers and you finish? Built like a garage....James


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## Danaus29 (Sep 12, 2005)

It's not that hard to lay block. Get a contractor that's willing to accept your help and teach you the ropes. My brother lays block and works on price with people who are willing to help and learn.


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## davidj (Nov 2, 2005)

jwal10 said:


> Wood shell? You talking about a pole shed, wood or metal siding? How about a stud type building on a concrete slab with concrete footers and you finish? Built like a garage....James


Here's a link to their page:

http://www.luckylumber.com/luckys_package_homes.htm

As you can see, it's not a pole shed. You have options for siding. You have several options for about everything.


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## Sparticle (Nov 1, 2004)

We're building a block house for my mother. 800 square feet. Around $1400 for the blocks, we laid some of the blocks and hired out some for around $1000 more. Laying blocks is easy to learn how to do. Building underground. Green roof. Being underground greatly reduces your heating and cooling costs and is better protection in tornadoes. I think its a much smarter way to build.


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## thestartupman (Jul 25, 2010)

Has anyone here actually used LuckyLumber?


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## Belfrybat (Feb 21, 2003)

I did something similar 15+ years ago. Pier and beam foundation with floor, finished outside and 4 circuit electrical panel. 30x40' (1200 sq ft). Total cost for electrified shell was right at $9000.00. I hired out the interior finishing, insulation, and plumbing for an addition +/- $6000.00 and did the interior staining/painting myself. I ended up with quite a nice 2 bed 1.5 bath house for around $20,000. including the lot. Sold it for $32,000.00 five years later. Frankly, I'd go for the same type of deal if I could have found something similar around here instead of the doublewide I'm currently in.


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## gobug (Dec 10, 2003)

One of my recent thoughts regarded envelope houses. That idea sort of relates to a shell house. 

Imagine several small structures inside a metal shell (each structure like a room in a house, just a separate structure). Offices are built inside large warehouses, why not homes? Things like plumbing, electrical, hot water, etc., would be inside the large metal structure (easy access and protected from the elements). 

The reason I gave this serious thought was the ability to start with small square foot structures to live in during the addition of a warehouse cover and other internal "buildings".

In the envelope houses from the 70's. the space between the outer shell and inner house was only about 1 foot.


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## giddy (Nov 14, 2006)

I have a metal house (metal framework, metal siding and roof) that was built for me almost 3 years ago. The concrete slab, framework, siding, windows, doors, roof, basically getting it in the dry was around $35,000. I have 9' ceilings. We are going thru the toughest drought and high heat we've had in many years. This last week it was 115 in the shade. I have 2000', one bedroom, one bath living space. My electric bill was $217 this last month. All the stick built houses around me with less than my square footage (avg being 1800') was $346, $384, and $489. After the framework was up, the 2 x 4 walls went in the metal framework, inside walls, ceilings, etc. Then I had someone blow foam insulation on the outside walls and roof. This stops up all holes and leakage. Electrical and plumbing was done before this. Then regular insulation batts on top of that, then sheetrock. My roof is dark brown metal. My attic has no vents anywhere except for the plumbing vent going thru the roof. My central air unit is in the attic, heat pump outside. No one around here can believe my electric bill is so cheap. I have a computer that stays on about 20 hrs a day, 2 deep freezes and am all electric. The guy who put my building up does this for a living. Mine was only about his second house (his being first) that he has built. Mostly, he builds commercial, barns, shops, etc. I don't know of anyone around me that has a cheaper electric bill than me. My thermostat is on 75 during the day and 72 at night. If I was going to build another house, it would be another metal house. I didn't get the thin insulation they usually put up on these buildings because I used the foam insulation and wanted it to be on the inside of the metal frame. My house has 2500 under roof-I have a 10 x 50 porch all the way across the front. I also went with tile thru out-no carpet. That's great in the summer, right now the floor is probably 65 degrees, in the winter that floor is cold!


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## PyroDon (Jul 30, 2006)

blocks Hmm lets see $2 a block plus $1.25 to lay it , very little insulation value, improperly layed tend to crack. 
Not a big fan of blocks been in a few block houses in winter Ice on the inside walls , damp during rains


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## bbbuddy (Jul 29, 2002)

PyroDon said:


> blocks Hmm lets see $2 a block plus $1.25 to lay it , very little insulation value, improperly layed tend to crack.
> Not a big fan of blocks been in a few block houses in winter Ice on the inside walls , damp during rains


Dry stack blocks, anyone can do it, then it is surface bonded, anyone can do it, like painting. There is much info on the web...
dry stacked and surface bonded is stronger than laid block.

Glue sheet foam insulation to the outside with a light layer of stucco for protection. All the mass is inside, where it:

1) retains heat in the winter saving on heating
and
2) retains the night time cool for less ac in the summer (open house up at night) (this works IF you have cool nights, not if you live where it stays hot all night)


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## PyroDon (Jul 30, 2006)

bbbuddy said:


> Dry stack blocks, anyone can do it, then it is surface bonded, anyone can do it, like painting. There is much info on the web...
> dry stacked and surface bonded is stronger than laid block.
> 
> Glue sheet foam insulation to the outside with a light layer of stucco for protection. All the mass is inside, where it:
> ...


have you seen what hundred mile per hour winds do to dry stacked surface bonded blocks ??? I have No thank your .
I fully understand thermal mas and various building technics (one advantage of living near one of the highest rates building tech colleges in the country) 
Ive had the pleasure of working on most types , styrafoam forms, stress panels, suface bond, bubble form. I also understand how great many of these seem the first year or two. The styrafoam forms for instance the first five years show great winter heat retention of course they do the foam insulates the curing concrete and as such it continues to produce heat for roughly 3 and a half years until fully cured . Ive worked with the fero concrete , glass fibered concrete, and polyester re-enforced .
cost wise concrete be it block or formed tends to be expensive and unforgiving as well as hard to insulate, then you have the added cost of plumbing and electric, down the line you have major problems if the plumbing leaks. 
Ideally you would build a hybrid and utilize the best of all building materials


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## brushhippie (Jul 12, 2011)

I was thinking of doing the metal frame thing since there are several metal companies down in Gravette, but found the wood frame to be much cheaper. We have a 20x24 wood frame sheathed and insulated (not finished inside) and we're into it for about $3200. I've used alot of recovered materials and that helps the pocket book ALOT! We too are in the same area.


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## davidj (Nov 2, 2005)

giddy said:


> I have a metal house (metal framework, metal siding and roof) that was built for me almost 3 years ago. The concrete slab, framework, siding, windows, doors, roof, basically getting it in the dry was around $35,000. I have 9' ceilings. We are going thru the toughest drought and high heat we've had in many years. This last week it was 115 in the shade. I have 2000', one bedroom, one bath living space. My electric bill was $217 this last month. All the stick built houses around me with less than my square footage (avg being 1800') was $346, $384, and $489. After the framework was up, the 2 x 4 walls went in the metal framework, inside walls, ceilings, etc. Then I had someone blow foam insulation on the outside walls and roof. This stops up all holes and leakage. Electrical and plumbing was done before this. Then regular insulation batts on top of that, then sheetrock. My roof is dark brown metal. My attic has no vents anywhere except for the plumbing vent going thru the roof. My central air unit is in the attic, heat pump outside. No one around here can believe my electric bill is so cheap. I have a computer that stays on about 20 hrs a day, 2 deep freezes and am all electric. The guy who put my building up does this for a living. Mine was only about his second house (his being first) that he has built. Mostly, he builds commercial, barns, shops, etc. I don't know of anyone around me that has a cheaper electric bill than me. My thermostat is on 75 during the day and 72 at night. If I was going to build another house, it would be another metal house. I didn't get the thin insulation they usually put up on these buildings because I used the foam insulation and wanted it to be on the inside of the metal frame. My house has 2500 under roof-I have a 10 x 50 porch all the way across the front. I also went with tile thru out-no carpet. That's great in the summer, right now the floor is probably 65 degrees, in the winter that floor is cold!


Thanks for the info. What do you mean by "getting it in the dry?" Does the $35,000 include electric and plumbing? We've met with a salesman from Cleary buildings who designed the house with his software and came up with a price of around $40,000 for a 36x56 house with a 40ft covered porch. That includes insulation around the walls with nailers. He told us we could expect around $10,000 or more to completely wire a 2000sqft house. He said plumbing would be around $2000.


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## farminghandyman (Mar 4, 2005)

IMO the biggest problem with a "shell" house is that it is just that a shell,

all most with out fail the way a pole barn or steel building is built, one has to build (frame up) another building inside of it to have your walls and such work,
(most pole or steel buildings) are not braced to attach dry wall to the girths the spacing is to far apart, the rafters on a pole barn will need ceiling joists added for the ceiling to be supported,

the truth be known, the framing of a building is probably the easiest and simplest part of building a building, 

your best bet IMO is to either figure out the plumbing or block it out and pour a edge insulated monolithic or stem wall insulated concrete floor,

build a conventional walls, and use a truss roof system, you will be ahead normally if you ply wood the roof before adding your roofing, 

think about it, a normal pole barn uses laminated poles, usually 2x6 or 2x8, (usually at least 4 layers some times more), normally spaced about 8 to 12
feet apart, (now if that was a convental wall how many studs would that make, 4 studs, at 2' spacing a distance of 8 feet, OK to use the poles they use girths, boards around the building to attach the tin, there are on the average 24 to 36 inch spacing, so say 10 feet, tall, they will use a min of 4 if not 5 board or girths across, how many studs would that make another 6' with two plates, feet so even at 16" spacing your using more lumber most likely to build your pole barn than convental construction, or at least as much, on the walls,

yes building a building in a building will most likely save on utilities, but if insulated correctly and vented properly my guess is you can easly match it, for energy consumption,

the biggest additional expense would most likely be sheeting, to back your siding, (on my barn since it is convental construction I put on the tin horizontal), so I did not have to depend on the old wood siding completely holding the tin on,

even if you hire the Shell built I strongly suggest you consider convental framing for the walls,

Concrete Block is a very poor insulator, (unless one uses the foam blocks),
you will freeze in the winter and cook in the summer, and unless you double wall it and insulate in the center of it, if you want to stay warm or cool you will end up building a nother wall inside of it to put in some insulation,


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## City Bound (Jan 24, 2009)

Block homes are good in case of a fire. if there is a fire all you have to do is rebuild the roof.


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## Danaus29 (Sep 12, 2005)

With concrete block or poured concrete walls you will have to insulate just like you would a stick built or metal shell. We saw a product that would be really nice for block walls and we are planning to use it in our building. It's rigid foam with channels behind it for wiring and strips on the front for nailing paneling or drywall. It's not real thick but has a pretty high R value. I'll have to check to see if I can find the info again. I would also like to fill the hollows of the blocks with something instead of just dead air space. 

Concrete is also a good bullet stop if you live in a bad neighborhood.


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## giddy (Nov 14, 2006)

By getting in the dry I meant roof, windows, doors, outside walls. My walls have metal square tubiing between the metal posts. Then regular stud walls was nailed into the concrete floor and square tubing, then the electric and plumbing was done, sprayed insulation, batt insulation, then sheetrock. I helped the electrician so it didn't cost but $2700 for labor. I'm female, he was older so I got up in the attic and pulled the wire for everything. I did all of the phone line, cable, internet, speaker wiring also. The plumber was around $2000. There's not a piece of wood in this house that I didn't help or was here when it was put in place. My ceiling was done like a normal house in everyplace (wood was screwed into metal rafters) except my living room, dining, and kitchen which is all one room and 30' expanse. There the contractor had the trusses fabricated that each are equivalent to 2-2 x 12 together so there would be no sagging in the ceiling.


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## boiledfrog (Jun 2, 2011)

I'm going to vote for mud huts!


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## swollen tongue (Mar 9, 2006)

it does not matter what you build with, it will cost you around $45-60 a foot when your completely done and finished........there is no magic formula to building a house for no money spent on it............


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