# There is something to be said about odd ball calibers.



## simi-steading (Sep 27, 2012)

I picked up a CZ-82 this past weekend, which I was feeling was a bad move since it would be a new caliber to me and knowing how hard it is to find any ammo right now... 

When I bought it, I was lucky, and one of the guys at the shop had accidentally bought some 9mm Makarov or 9x18... So I bought that from him for it.. 150 rounds... .. 

Then I decided I better find some more, so I hit the web last night, and was surprised the first links I checked were in stock, so I ordered 300 rounds of FMJ and 100 of JHP.. There is a 2-3 day shipping delay though, but I can live with that.. 36 and .38 cents per round.. Yes, expensive for what it used to run, BUT, considering other prices.. not bad.

So I thought OK, lemme see how easy it is to find some 38 (which I don't need) or some 357 (Which I could stand to get some more of)... Couldn't find anything unless I wanted to pay about $2 a shot.. 

So then I thought, OK, lemme see about some 6.5x55 Swedish... which I could stand to use some more of... And there within a link or two, I found some at decent prices.. .

So then I thought I'd look for some 7mm Mauser, which I have plenty of, but it is a little bit of an odd ball... It wasn't as easy to find as the Swedish, but I could still find it at prices similar to what I'd been paying.. 

So then I went to look for some .308.. Yeah, it's out there, but you better be rich... 

I do also see you can somewhat easily find 7.62x39, but it has gone up in price at least 50% of what it was selling for a year ago, but at least it's there.. 

So I am still seeing that even with all the hording, it is still easier to get the odd calibers over the common stuff, and the odd ball stuff is staying a lot cheaper than the more common sizes.. .Also, it seems to be a lot easier to get foreign made ammo over American made ammo.. 

So that last item does really make me wonder if part of the problem about getting American made ammo does have to do with the factories being busy making ammo for DHS?


----------



## simi-steading (Sep 27, 2012)

Just got off the phone with Magtech... I sent in some defective 308 a little over a month ago... They still aren't getting any in from their manufacturers.. 

They said they have a couple containers coming in, but they have gotten held up, but he didn't elaborate on that.. He did say he was going to be checking on them and see where they are and when they are supposed to be in.. Not on my account, but because they have nothing in their warehouse... 

It does kind of make me wonder though... containers of ammo getting held up... hhhmmm....


----------



## GREENCOUNTYPETE (Jul 25, 2006)

It's a catch 22 , for years and years you could go in to any hard ware store and buy 30-06 , actually if your willing to pay 35 dollars a box the hardware store has a few boxes of it on the shelf right now 

when everything else is in shortage 223 308 22lr 9mm then the oddballs are easier to find than the stuff in high demand.

we have seen it around elections and now since December , but for the previews hundred years having something common meant finding it at the local store , in those pre internet days 


I think having some of each is the most wise , diversify 

also reloading and stocking components , as well as keeping a stock of loaded ammo and 22lr 
I may not be able to target shoot as normal during a shortage but i know i will be stocked enough for several years of upcoming hunting seasons , then again a only use a few rounds a year to hunt


----------



## simi-steading (Sep 27, 2012)

I'm well set for hunting... I could hunt for my next 5 lives with what I have if that was all the shooting I did, but I do like to keep the skill level up... That's becoming pretty hard to do any more though... One it's expensive, but two, finding the ammo even if you have the money, it still makes you not want to shoot it up... 

I kind of have a delima too... My wife has just recently discovered she likes shooting and guns... She really hasn't done much of any shooting, and she also wants to get her CCW... No way am I going to let he do that if she isn't good and proficient... I've been shooting since I was a kid... She hasn't.. I've not quite figured out how to teach her a lifetime of skills if shooting is so expensive... 

We do plan for her to take a class, so there goes a ton of ammo... and then to keep somewhat practiced will take a lot more.. Her gun is a .38.. Good for ammo on it for now... but may not be after a few months.. 

The other issue with that is, yes, I could hand her one of my others I have plenty of ammo for, but none of them are a snubbed DA only revolver.. so she really needs to practice with that one.. Especially since I've noticed she's picked up a bad flinch with it... I've been feeding it light loads...

I'm hoping I can hand her this CZ and work with her on getting over the flinch, for a lot cheaper price than shooting up all our .38... then once the flinch is gone, get her back to practicing with her gun..


----------



## hefty lefty (Aug 22, 2013)

The oddball calibers are the last refuge for cheap factory loads.

I believe that if you are going to shoot centerfire to any serious extent now, you either have to be a reloader or be wealthy enough that we don't need to hear whining about the price.

So rather than whine, I'm looking into having a Thompson Center Encore barrel made for one of the various still cheap surplus calibers. That way I can shoot without buying some oddball surplus gun with no parts support. Any ideas as to which oddball surplus cartridge would be best? it would be nice if the bore diameter needed were a standardish one.


----------



## bassmaster17327 (Apr 6, 2011)

hefty lefty said:


> The oddball calibers are the last refuge for cheap factory loads.
> 
> I believe that if you are going to shoot centerfire to any serious extent now, you either have to be a reloader or be wealthy enough that we don't need to hear whining about the price.
> 
> So rather than whine, I'm looking into having a Thompson Center Encore barrel made for one of the various still cheap surplus calibers. That way I can shoot without buying some oddball surplus gun with no parts support. Any ideas as to which oddball surplus cartridge would be best? it would be nice if the bore diameter needed were a standardish one.


Buy a Mosin Nagant 91/30, you should be able to find the rifle for under 150.00 and you can usually find ammo for around 100.00 for a 440 round spam can. It shoots a 7.62x54R


----------



## hefty lefty (Aug 22, 2013)

bassmaster17327 said:


> Buy a Mosin Nagant 91/30, you should be able to find the rifle for under 150.00 and you can usually find ammo for around 100.00 for a 440 round spam can. It shoots a 7.62x54R


 I have shot them, I didn't enjoy it a bit. 

Crude, hard kicking and a bolt gun with a rimmed cartridge. Plus all Berdan primed and unreloadable. Much of it corrosive to boot. 

But it wouldn't be a bad idea to have one or two packed away with a lot of ammo. I already have too many long guns that aren't regularly fired in my case.


----------



## ace admirer (Oct 5, 2005)

berdan can be reloaded. takes a "special" tool to deprime. Midway and others sell it. and of course Berdan primers, they are around, but it takes some searchin. i don.t reload any steel cases , i have read of some that do.

i agree the mosin nagants kill at both ends.

I purchased a dozen or so when they were $49.99, to build a foreign military sniper rifle for my son to shoot in CMP match. Some of them are plenty accurate (3/4 MOA) some the bullet may come around and hit the shooter in the rear....


----------



## Pops2 (Jan 27, 2003)

Cabelas carries brass cased boxer primed 7.62x54r ammo from herters. It's a decent price too.


----------



## sleeps723 (Sep 10, 2006)

I guess I've been pretty lucky. There is a gun store over in canton, out in the sticks, they have oodles of ammo. 22 stingers and lr, 357 and 45&44, 9mm and 40, lots of rifle ammo. Even had some 357sig ammo. I'm buying a box at 23-25 dollars.


----------



## credee (Aug 17, 2013)

I aint running out and buying half-assed guns that fire 40c per shot ammo. I've got decent guns, decent skills and if i have to shoot even a very few rds, there will be plenty of guns and ammo to be taken from the dead bodies. I will just wait until the fools get short of money and have to start diumping some of their ammo hoards, at about 1/3rd what they paid for it.


----------



## simi-steading (Sep 27, 2012)

Just because a gun fires a more obscure round doesn't make it a half a donkey.... Some very fine guns out there that fire less common rounds... 

I'll take the accuracy and trajectory of a Swedish Mauser over a AR-15 any day... 

I can still easily find 7mm Mauser much easier than it is to find 308 and 30-06.. and it's a lot cheaper..

I still do a lot of shooting because I can find ammo for those guns.. I don't shoot my guns that are the more common rounds because it's harder to find ammo for them and more expensive to shoot them.

I just picked up a case of 9mm MAk for .27 cents a round.. My CZ-82 is much more accurate than my S&W 38 or my Ruger Security Six... and has one of the best triggers you could ever want... and it's a whole lot more fun to shoot... So I'm happy with .27 cents a round compared to almost a buck a round for my .357...

Don't dismiss a gun just because it's not something you are familiar with or isn't a more common caliber.. the CZ-82 has a huge following... You will seldom be able to buy one from someone that owns one.. they a real keepers..


----------



## Apocalypse Boy (May 4, 2012)

You can get a 1,080 rounds of steel core 5.45x39mm in a sealed "Spam Can" for $240 plus shipping and tax. Compared to $550 plus shipping and tax for a thousand rounds of loose packed 5.56 NATO. 

Aaaaah....I love my AK...


----------



## Pops2 (Jan 27, 2003)

simi-steading said:


> Just because a gun fires a more obscure round doesn't make it a half a donkey.... Some very fine guns out there that fire less common rounds...
> 
> I'll take the accuracy and trajectory of a Swedish Mauser over a AR-15 any day...
> 
> ...


I agree. I have a military 98 Mauser made in the mid 20s that is more accurate than most shooters can use. There is no doubt in my mind that, if oppression comes to revolution, I could clean out the local PD and take their "decent" little poodle poppers.


----------



## credee (Aug 17, 2013)

I don't think so, OP. there's just a lot more people willing/able to buy lots of, pay more for the "standard" calibers, that's all. Many people fantasize that bolt actions are still combat rifles, until they actually get into fights with several guys who have autoloading rifles. Then they get killed.


----------



## Pops2 (Jan 27, 2003)

credee said:


> I don't think so, OP. there's just a lot more people willing/able to buy lots of, pay more for the "standard" calibers, that's all. Many people fantasize that bolt actions are still combat rifles, until they actually get into fights with several guys who have autoloading rifles. Then they get killed.


Been there, done that, got the t-shirt. I'd have been better off with the 8mm Mauser. At least the rounds would have done a better job punching through their crappy little mud huts. Automatics don't kill, they keep the other guy from moving until someone can shoot him with a well aimed shot.
It wasn't til the M-16 & M-16A1 hit Vietnam & cops got semiautomatic pistols that we found out right the board was that chose the M-14. Hundreds of rounds fired by poorly trained individuals for minimal kills. Meanwhile in WWII the average grunt fired about 30 rounds a day to kill MILLIONS of Japs, Krauts and ---s. The ONLY place the semi beats the old bolts is in the FPF.


----------



## simi-steading (Sep 27, 2012)

I will take either my Brazilian Mauser or my Swedish Mauser over my SKS... .

Yes, I can spray and pray with my SKS, but the accuracy on it, like with an AK, or even a lot of cheaper AR guns isn't there...

Different guns have different uses... semi-auto's are meant to cause people to stay in one place and keep their heads down.. . good bolt actions are meant for the precisely placed shot.. 

BUT... this wasn't about semi-auto or bolt actions... 

This was about the odd calibers... I can buy a lot of 9mm Mak for my CZ for dirt cheap, but I can't as easily find .45 for my 1911... and I sure can't buy it as cheap... 

I can buy a lot of 7mm Mauser ammo for dirt cheap, but I can't buy .308 Winchester ammo very cheaply... 

If a person wants to do a lot of shooting on the range, they are better off buying odd calibers than common calibers... Quite a bit cheaper, and actually easier to find..


----------



## GREENCOUNTYPETE (Jul 25, 2006)

see and as a reloader and caster I would make the argument for the most common cartridges that come in brass cased easily reloadable 

I like 30-30 , common lots of people leave the brass lay but the brass can be reloaded 10+times with moderate loads and cast bullets 

45acp loades very well 
9mm 
40 
38

now a relover in say 9mm , 40 or 45 so that you didn't have the same problem as other shooters that their gun flings brass all over , well you could have the same brass a very very long time.


It is amazing how people like to leave their used bullets in the berm , they melt down just fine , as well as other sources for lead 

cost if your really recycling the pick up brass and old bullets can be down to 5-6 cents a round plus your time 

I only wish more real cast friendly rifle rounds where popular , with all the 223 cases i pick up I sure wish i had a 300 blackout bolt action rifle whats not to like well it isn't a rimmed cartridge and it has a short neck but other than that , 30-30 ballistics , minimal powder usage 30 caliber 

but I already have everything for 30-30 and I see more 30-30 bolt rifles in the future


----------



## simi-steading (Sep 27, 2012)

I never did enough shooting to justify reloading, but now that I do, I do plan to start reloading.. .It used to be I was lucky if I could shoot 500 rounds in a year.. now I can easily do that in a day... so the cost of reloading is suddenly worth it, and yes, that would make the more common rounds easier to acquire...

BUT, again, you get into an issue... you looked around for the slugs or primers or even the powder for the more common calibers? Have you looked around for presses or dies and such? It's all almost like looking for ammo... Just not there... It is starting to come back however... 

I was just think the other day.. At least I got a lot of lead available to recast.. I just need to go dig up my backstop..


----------



## GREENCOUNTYPETE (Jul 25, 2006)

primers have come back in stock many places , there just weren't as many re-loaders to keep buying them as there were 22lr buyers 

I found cci large pistol , small pistol , small rifle and large rifle all in stock for 29.99 a K last weekend 

the up side is lead basically comes in soft and hard or some mix , adding more soft will make hard softer , but if you can get a BHN of 11 or so it is good for most any pistol cartridge , and if you add a gas check it can be used in some rifles up to hunting velocities 

most of the lead in jacketed bullets is fairly soft depending on the range 8-10 is a common bhn for range scrap 4-5 is basically dead soft pure lead BHN is the Brill hardness scale for measuring soft metals kind of like rockwell hardness but much much lower.

so 4 basic varieties of primer and 2-3 powders will do you for most everything 

unique is one of those powders you can load just about everything from 9mm , 40 , 38 , 45 , 44 , even 100 yard plinker rifle cartridges 

some 2400 for your 200 yard loads and magnum pistol 

and a rifle powder for those few hunting loads or long distance loads 


it is sure going to be easier to get long range accuracy with a factory purchased jacketed bullet but it can certainly be done out to 5-600 yards with cast if your very diligent and get the proper fit and tuned load


----------



## simi-steading (Sep 27, 2012)

I recently picked up some IMR 4064 at a really nice price. It had just come in as in stock that morning, and less than an hour after I ordered it, it was all sold out.. 

You can still find it though, just not at prices like I found..


----------

