# Anyone experience with putting a powerline underground?



## Meinecke (Jun 30, 2017)

Hello...
My property has an awful power line setup with even a pole in middle of lawn.
So i was wondering if putting it underground would be an option...
Did anyone try that and can explain what was involved for him/her?
In my simple world i just see me digging a trench in the proper depth, putting beefy pvc conduit in there and burring it together with a dont dig here tape...and when done call the provider to switch over from up there to down here...
But its most likely not just "real quick" or am i am wrong?


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## Alice In TX/MO (May 10, 2002)

Is it legal in your location for you to work on your own electric?


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## IMFoghorn (Jan 28, 2012)

When I put underground to a new barn I dug a ditch, provided pvc with a pull rope in the pipe, installed a ground rod connected to the meter base. The electric company ran a line from their pole to my meter base. The electric inspector had to okay everything before I could back fill the ditch. 

I would call the electric company to ask what they require.

JMO 
Doug


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## TnAndy (Sep 15, 2005)

Talk to your electric provider.  There are several ways it's done and they will tell you how THEY want it done. Any advice given here is likely based on how "I did mine", which may not even be close to how you'll have to do yours.


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## GTX63 (Dec 13, 2016)

I've seen guys run power to their homes using everything from a backhoe to a trencher to a subsoiler.
The catch is that they live where they are allowed to be as wrong or dumb, or as smart, as they want to be.
I can't believe there is still areas left in NJ that will allow any permitless electrical done.


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## weaselfire (Feb 7, 2018)

Call the power company. Up to the meter is they're responsibility. I saved money doing my own trenching, they dropped off the conduit. But it's their rules you need to follow.

Jeff


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## Danaus29 (Sep 12, 2005)

Without the power line where will the birds perch?

Pop did a direct burial on his line. Bad, bad, bad, terrible idea. Occasionally they lose one leg of power to the barn. The connection is not real great and needs to be reconnected every so often. A licensed electrician did that mess for him. Hubby has to fix the connection when it goes out. And Mom still made him run an overhead wire so the swallows and martins would have perches.

People have been electrocuted by underground loose electrical connections. You have to be more careful with underground connections than aerial ones. Even if the electric company doesn't require it, conduit will save you time and money in the long run. All the connections should be enclosed in non conductive, UL listed connector boxes. 

Underground wiring with the proper conduit and connectors is terribly expensive.


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## Composted (Aug 28, 2019)

Danaus29 said:


> Without the power line where will the birds perch?
> 
> Pop did a direct burial on his line. Bad, bad, bad, terrible idea. Occasionally they lose one leg of power to the barn. The connection is not real great and needs to be reconnected every so often. A licensed electrician did that mess for him. Hubby has to fix the connection when it goes out. And Mom still made him run an overhead wire so the swallows and martins would have perches.
> 
> ...



I’m not sure I follow this. 

There should be no “connections” underground. If there is a splice, it should be above ground or in a serviceable manhole, and a manhole is not necessarily a good idea. 

Is the troubled connection below ground?


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## muleskinner2 (Oct 7, 2007)

It cost me $1200.00 for the power company to put in two poles and string the wire to my meter. They wanted $7000.00 to put it under ground.


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## farmrbrown (Jun 25, 2012)

Composted said:


> I’m not sure I follow this.
> 
> There should be no “connections” underground. If there is a splice, it should be above ground or in a serviceable manhole, and a manhole is not necessarily a good idea.
> 
> Is the troubled connection below ground?


That's basically correct, although "serviceable" doesn't necessarily require a manhole.



GTX63 said:


> I've seen guys run power to their homes using everything from a backhoe to a trencher to a subsoiler.
> The catch is that they live where they are allowed to be as wrong or dumb, or as smart, as they want to be.
> I can't believe there is still areas left in NJ that will allow any permitless electrical done.


Get ready for a bigger shock, pardon the pun. 
You know who else isn't required to pull a permit or follow NEC codes when working/wiring their own property?

http://www.imsasafety.org/journal/mj03/mayjun8.htm


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## AmericanStand (Jul 29, 2014)

Like the others I will first repeat call your electric company
That said a single line with no connections underground using both conduit and underground burial wire shouldn’t be a problem 
I’m not sure if direct burial wire can be run in a conduit, it seems like I may have heard in the past that it needs the direct soil contact for cooling


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## Meinecke (Jun 30, 2017)

Oh i would not consider direct burial...only conduit with enough space to pull at least the double amount easily
Will check with my JCP&L and see what they require...
Just dont want them to do it, cause then i can just build a new house closer to the lines and prob save money


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## AmericanStand (Jul 29, 2014)

why wouldnt you consider direct burial?


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## hiddensprings (Aug 6, 2009)

talk to your electric company. We put ours underground but had to meet their requirements. They actually ran it once we had the ditch dug and conduit in place.


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## Meinecke (Jun 30, 2017)

Conduit/Pipe ensures easy/cheap serviceability


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## Fishindude (May 19, 2015)

Not a big deal. Utility company buried mine using direct burial cable from the pole out by road to the meter on backside of the main barn. My utility company prefers buried, because they don't have to worry about ice and wind damaging it.


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## Meinecke (Jun 30, 2017)

I prefer utilities under ground myself...
Coming from an infrastructure like Germany, some things over here are cute at best...and landlines to the house are not my favorite...
Hope they dont charge an arm and a leg...
Just called yesterday and "an engineer will be in touch shortly"


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## coolrunnin (Aug 28, 2010)

Here, it would be the rocks.


AmericanStand said:


> why wouldnt you consider direct burial?


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## Farmerjack41 (Jun 6, 2017)

When I put power in at one of the farms, the first 36”, was easy digging the last 6” was done with lots of blasting. Here it must be at least 42” deep.


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## AmericanStand (Jul 29, 2014)

Here it would’ve been easier just to haul some more dirt !


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## Meinecke (Jun 30, 2017)

Already scared of the digging myself...there is probably enough rock in my yard to rebuild NYC


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## melli (May 7, 2016)

Meinecke said:


> Conduit/Pipe ensures easy/cheap serviceability


There should be no serviceable parts with a conduit or direct bury install. There should be no underground splices.

Around here, we need to get a electrical permit, which a homeowner can pull.
Dig trench (~3ft depending on locale), 6 inches of sand at bottom, conduit or direct bury wire laid, call for inspection. Once inspected, another 6 inches of sand on top, then fill, putting caution tape about a foot below grade. Call for final inspection...the end.

We can use concrete to make up for lack of dig depth (see local codes). I had to use some concrete on a stretch because a couple cubic meters of concrete is way cheaper than a blaster (solid rock section).
I used 2 - 250MCM (size) ACWU (aluminum wire wrapped in aluminum casing with plastic waterproof jacket). I went overboard because I may build further into property, and voltage drop could become an issue (see online voltage drop calculators). My target was a solid 200amp service.
ACWU is 'cheap' relative to copper, albeit, one has to upsize the wire to get the same amp rating.

Cost me $3500 CDN (~$2700USD) to buy 500ft of 250MCM ACWU cable. I'd need probably 2, maybe 3 poles to cover distance, and I was looking at $2500 per pole for install. Although, I could have tried to muck about installing poles ($1000 each). Poles were a non-starter for me, because I'd have to clearcut section to road, still have to deal with falling trees taking out powerlines, and because of run, have to buy tranformers ($$$$) for both ends because of run length. Oh yeah, I'd have to give utility right of way to last pole...that would be a no.

I have a machine (aka Bobby), so digging wasn't much of an issue. Find a friend or neighbor with one, or rent one. With a machine, I dug as deep as I could (5-6ft in places). It takes tree roots and accidental 'digging it up' issues out of play. 

You can see pics of my install on my thread.


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## Danaus29 (Sep 12, 2005)

Composted said:


> I’m not sure I follow this.
> 
> There should be no “connections” underground. If there is a splice, it should be above ground or in a serviceable manhole, and a manhole is not necessarily a good idea.
> 
> Is the troubled connection below ground?


The connection is where it comes out of the ground and connects to the line somewhere outside the barn. I'm not sure where, I didn't see it myself. All I know is that the connection is above ground and for some reason loosens occasionally.



AmericanStand said:


> why wouldnt you consider direct burial?


Because you are too cheap to buy the proper direct burial cable. Although I don't know if conduit and wire are cheaper than the cable. Or maybe because you don't want to dig down 24".


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## Composted (Aug 28, 2019)

Danaus29 said:


> The connection is where it comes out of the ground and connects to the line somewhere outside the barn. I'm not sure where, I didn't see it myself. All I know is that the connection is above ground and for some reason loosens occasionally.


If I understand, it’s not supply from the power company. 

If it is lead off of meter, you could have several issues. Aluminum to Copper, ( Thermal Coefficient of expansion difference, ionization from different materials, and/or overload on one leg). I suspect all. None relate to underground feed.


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## MichaelZ (May 21, 2013)

They did not run conduit for my line to the shed that was underground. But I had to make sure no rocks rested against the wire as frost heaving could cause damage and failure. I pulled a lot of rocks out of that ditch!


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## Composted (Aug 28, 2019)

MichaelZ said:


> They did not run conduit for my line to the shed that was underground. But I had to make sure no rocks rested against the wire as frost heaving could cause damage and failure. I pulled a lot of rocks out of that ditch!


The run to your shed is on your dime. Lol


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## Danaus29 (Sep 12, 2005)

You missed one, movement due to not being buried deep enough. The last line they ran was rubbed bare by rocks and being run over by vehicles. This one wasn't buried any deeper, certainly not deep enough to satisfy code. Half a shovel or just covered with sod deep. And all done by a certified electrician. It isn't even direct burial cable, just cheap aluminum wire.


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## Composted (Aug 28, 2019)

Danaus29 said:


> You missed one, movement due to not being buried deep enough. The last line they ran was rubbed bare by rocks and being run over by vehicles. This one wasn't buried any deeper, certainly not deep enough to satisfy code. Half a shovel or just covered with sod deep. And all done by a certified electrician. It isn't even direct burial cable, just cheap aluminum wire.


Anyone responsible would not have allowed it.


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## Composted (Aug 28, 2019)

Danaus29 said:


> Without the power line where will the birds perch?
> 
> Pop did a direct burial on his line. Bad, bad, bad, terrible idea. Occasionally they lose one leg of power to the barn. The connection is not real great and needs to be reconnected every so often. A licensed electrician did that mess for him. Hubby has to fix the connection when it goes out. And Mom still made him run an overhead wire so the swallows and martins would have perches.
> 
> ...



Bad, Bad, Bad decision in contractor. 

Nothing to do with above or below ground.


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## Danaus29 (Sep 12, 2005)

Of course it was a bad decision and a terrible contractor. 



Composted said:


> Bad, Bad, Bad decision in contractor.
> 
> Nothing to do with above or below ground.


The same wire run overhead would have worked just fine.


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## CKelly78z (Jul 16, 2017)

IMFoghorn said:


> When I put underground to a new barn I dug a ditch, provided pvc with a pull rope in the pipe, installed a ground rod connected to the meter base. The electric company ran a line from their pole to my meter base. The electric inspector had to okay everything before I could back fill the ditch.
> 
> I would call the electric company to ask what they require.
> 
> ...


 We did the same thing from the power pole out front to my new meter box on the side of my house. Once we go power to the house, I dug another 150'x3' deep trench (with my backhoe) to our barn to run 220v service. I glued conduit together with a pull rope through it, covered it with 12" of dirt, had it inspected, and then backfilled the remainder.


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## 1948CaseVAI (May 12, 2014)

AmericanStand said:


> why wouldnt you consider direct burial?


In my area the electric service lines were direct buried years ago and due to settling some are now pulling the meter boxes off the walls. It is costing just over $3,000 per line to do it over in conduit, which is now a requirement here. The power company will cut your line once they spot the tension tugging at the meter so there is no choice but to do it over. The property owner has to pay all costs except for the wire itself, which the opower company provides. I added service line coverage to my homeowners insurance for just this reason.


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## Composted (Aug 28, 2019)

Danaus29 said:


> Of course it was a bad decision and a terrible contractor.
> 
> 
> 
> The same wire run overhead would have worked just fine.



If it is a leg overload, that’s likely not true.


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## Elevenpoint (Nov 17, 2009)

Always underground in conduit.
Nothing else.
Direct bury is nonsense.


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## Danaus29 (Sep 12, 2005)

Composted said:


> If it is a leg overload, that’s likely not true.


Dropped leg. I already stated the connection works loose.


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## AmericanStand (Jul 29, 2014)

1948CaseVAI said:


> In my area the electric service lines were direct buried years ago and due to settling some are now pulling the meter boxes off the walls. It is costing just over $3,000 per line to do it over in conduit, which is now a requirement here. The power company will cut your line once they spot the tension tugging at the meter so there is no choice but to do it over. The property owner has to pay all costs except for the wire itself, which the opower company provides. I added service line coverage to my homeowners insurance for just this reason.


 Lol now that’s some funny stuff!
You see conduit moves more! And is more resistant to being held in place due to its greater surface area.


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## Cornhusker (Mar 20, 2003)

When we redid ours, (We had to up the amperage) we hired an electrician.
I dug the trench, don't remember how deep is required, but it's not too deep.
I ran one from the pole to the house, and one to the shed, both in electrical conduit.
Put in a new breaker box as the old one only had 8 breakers.
Later I put up a 30x50 shop, and bought a big breaker box for it, but didn't get around to digging the trench.
As luck would have it, it wasn't too much later we had to put in a new well, so since they were going past the shop with the electric, I had them run to the shop and put in a breaker for the well in the shop.
They were happy to do it and all it cost me was a trip to town and a breaker.
I'm pretty sure splices are not allowed, maybe it varies by location.
I did find a splice on the old line. The wires were bolted together, then put in a can and filled with some kind of hard tar-like stuff.


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## 1948CaseVAI (May 12, 2014)

AmericanStand said:


> Lol now that’s some funny stuff!
> You see conduit moves more! And is more resistant to being held in place due to its greater surface area.


Doesn't sag in the middle as bad. Doesn't sag at all when it is pulled, not trenched, through ground that has been undisturbed for 40 years.


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## Robotron (Mar 25, 2012)

Slip joints are used with conduit to provide about 6” of movement to allow for movement. Here in my area you provide a 3” conduit for the electrical company to put their wires in. Depending where the meter is and first disconnect it may become a 4 wire system the rest of the way. Underground cable can and has been pulled through conduit. Watch the ratings on the wire though as some can not enter the building and must be changed over to approved conductors. This has more to do with insulation class and it does not matter if it’s in conduit all the way.


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