# pigs and hay



## FL.Boy (Dec 17, 2007)

how do you get your pigs to eat hay? Mine just lay in it. Does it matter what kind of hay it is?


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## stanb999 (Jan 30, 2005)

All you have to do is feed them less other stuff. They will then eat the hay.


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## PlowGirl (Nov 16, 2005)

If you intend for their hay to be bedding, they will suddenly develop a taste for it. Sometimes you just have to use reverse psychology.


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## highlands (Jul 18, 2004)

Ours just eat it. We don't do anything other than providing it. The hay is real hay, not straw. It is a mix of grasses, clovers, alfalfa, wild flowers, etc. Sweet smelling and green colored. Our pigs other primary feed is whey. We free feed both the whey and the hay - together they're a balanced diet although slightly short on calories in the winter.

Cheers

-Walter
Sugar Mountain Farm
in the mountains of Vermont
http://SugarMtnFarm.com/blog/
http://HollyGraphicArt.com/
http://NoNAIS.org


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## Up North (Nov 29, 2005)

If you are starting with a batch of pigs that have never had hay before you have to train them in. Like Stan said, feed less of other stuff. We give our pigs a limited amount of high quality alfalfa and free choice plain old grassy hay for eating and bedding. Since our sows are fully trained in now and used to eating hay, they teach their piglets how to eat hay. We don't have to worry about if they will eat it or not.

Heather


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## RedneckPete (Aug 23, 2004)

stanb999 said:


> All you have to do is feed them less other stuff. They will then eat the hay.


Yup. The less other food I feed them, the more hay they eat. I got my female as a bred sow from the hog barn, and it took her a LONG time to really eat hay. Her offspring were really eating it long before her. She's figured it out now.

Pete


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## How Do I (Feb 11, 2008)

What period would you feed the hay? During the growing period? Through the finishing period? Are there any studies to show weight gain versus feeding straight grains? Seems to be a cheaper alternative to grains, but how about weight gain? Our little guy has been on grain pretty much from the start. He always seems hungry no matter how much he is fed. I think he's close to 200 lbs. Can i throw in a bale of hay now or would it be too late?


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## Up North (Nov 29, 2005)

I don't have any figures but we feed hay from the time they are born to the time they go to freezer camp. We still feed grain to our hogs but we feel the addition of hay makes a much more rounded and healthy diet. We don't feed an extra protein grain source like soybeans. We feed high quality alfalfa and any extra milk we have for the protein. Plus feeding them hay gives them something to munch on all the time. We don't keep grain in front of our growers at all times. They get fed twice a day. Our growers reach market weight in 4 to 5 months. 

You can try throwing some hay to your pig and it won't hurt him at all. At this late in the game he may not know that he is meant to eat it.

Heather


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## highlands (Jul 18, 2004)

How Do I said:


> What period would you feed the hay?


All ages during the non-pasture months - typically Nov-April or so. During the pasture months they gather their own feed from the fields. We use intensive rotational grazing techniques, same as for sheep, cattle, etc.



How Do I said:


> Are there any studies to show weight gain versus feeding straight grains?


I've not seen any. I have done my own. Hay consumption is about 0.8 lbs / day / hundred weight on average over the life of the pig across all ages. Bigger animals are better at eating hay / pasture than smaller animals. Younger pasture is more digestible and easier to eat. Piglets will start eating grasses and hay in their first week or two. By weaning time they can thrive on it.

Straight pasture / hay results in about a month longer to market weight and a leaner animal. Adding dairy to the diet balances the proteins for faster growth similar to grain fed pigs. Dairy like whole milk gives added calories which are good in the winter for warmth. Too many calories in warmer weather tends to put on too much back fat.

Note that almost all of my research is based on our herds which are a mix of primarily Yorkshire plus a bit of Berkshire, Tamworth, Hampshire, GOS, etc in our northern Vermont mountain conditions. We've been specifically breeding them for pastureability among other things so your mileage may (will) vary with other breeds and conditions.

For articles I've written about our experience see:

[ame]http://www.google.com/search?&q=site%3Asugarmtnfarm.com+feeding+hay+to+pigs[/ame]



How Do I said:


> Can I throw him a bale of hay?


Go for it.

Cheers

-Walter
Sugar Mountain Farm
in the mountains of Vermont
http://SugarMtnFarm.com/blog/
http://HollyGraphicArt.com/
http://NoNAIS.org


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## farmergirl (Aug 2, 2005)

Walter,
If I feed only hay to my pigs, that gives them at most 10% protein, but more likely in the 8% protein range in winter. I have always heard/ read that the sows and pigs need a higher protein content than that. Thoughts?


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## highlands (Jul 18, 2004)

Farmergirl, As I said, on just pasture/hay they grow slower. Add dairy and the growth picks up to normal. 

By the way, you can improve your pastures, and hay, by adding legumes and such that will greatly increase the protein levels so they are significantly higher than the 10% number you cite. But, that's only part of the equation. Most forage won't have the right balance so there are still some limits. Lycine is a big limiting factor with forages. It's a protein limiting issue. That is why I suggest adding dairy.

Cheers

-Walter
Sugar Mountain Farm
in the mountains of Vermont
http://SugarMtnFarm.com/blog/
http://HollyGraphicArt.com/
http://NoNAIS.org


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## RedHogs (Jul 7, 2006)

I think that hay as a feed is overated, yes they will eat it but they will grow faster on grain....In my area, a square bales sells for 5 dollars (non-drought year) for a 50lb bale....10 cents a pound. My base feed is about the same...... since I've run out of large corn stalk bales I've used about 1300 small bales this year that was cut off a neighboring farm that was eat up with broom sage and lower quality grasses.....I have added weekly to the barns and it has gone down quickly....but I have still fed full feed rations......If large round bales is the only way you can bale this might be an economical option, or if you have poor quality hay, the hogs are a good use, but real good hay should be sold or fed to animals that will get more of a benifit. This of course assumes, that a farm is equiped for square bales......My winter turn of hogs is completely funded by hay sales to horse people.....any busted bales, wet bales, or just funky hay goes to the hogs. So i guess I feed hay by way of the feed store.

Corn stalks are super good for hogs, they are great bedding and the hogs will chew on them and get alot of fiber....and much cheaper than hay.


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## tomjones (Dec 22, 2007)

My blacks have been here for a month and a week now, and are finally picking up eating the hay. Got kind of a wild thought the other day to increase intake. 

What do you suppose would happen if you would take grass hay or maybe even alfalfa and sprayed heated deep fat fryer grease onto it. The pigs clean up anything with a human food taste like crazy, and i would think that along with getting them to eat the hay better it would act as a pretty good energy source. A bar about a mile away has a dumpster int he lot just for grease. Would be messy but not really rocket science to get it and apply it.

Thought???

Tom


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## tomjones (Dec 22, 2007)

BTW, numbers play a part. I am getting good quality grass horse hay delivered into my feeders from the neighbors for 30 bucks a 1300 pound bale.
If I was paying 5 bucks a square for grass, it would make no sense. It is amazing, but my feed store still has corn for 5.50 a fifty pound bag. No way can you compare the energy in the corn to the hay going though a pig.

The ability to feed hay and graze was a major part in my move to blacks, but if a cheaper energy source comes along that ship will jump fast.


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## RedHogs (Jul 7, 2006)

Tom, My experience with blacks is that fat will not be your problem, you will have to work to keep your breeders trim, Any free high protein source such as nuts, turnips, canola hay would be a plus.....watch the fat intake, it should be about half of a commercial hog.


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## highlands (Jul 18, 2004)

This is one of those things that varies with the region. Our hay is about half the price of RedHogs hay and from what he says our hay is also a lot better quality - what is termed rowen around here, the good stuff. Even better is buying the hay in the big round bales which greatly further reduces the cost of the hay. 

Furthermore in our case we have a source of dairy which is a perfect complement for the hay. On hay/pasture and dairy the pigs grow just as fast as they grow on grain and the meat tastes better (according to area Chefs and they're pros) and sells for a higher price.

Between our local higher quality hay and a dramatically lower cost it makes better sense here to feed hay than it does for other places. Couple that with the higher price the we get for the resulting pork and it becomes even more dramatically good.

As always, Your Mileage May (will) Vary (YMMV) and Do The Math...

Cheers

-Walter
Sugar Mountain Farm
in the mountains of Vermont
http://SugarMtnFarm.com/blog/
http://HollyGraphicArt.com/
http://NoNAIS.org


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## tomjones (Dec 22, 2007)

Redhogs, 

I guess my thoughts of adding the fat would be as a short term solution to try and encourage consumption of higher fiber in the form of the hay. Then as they developed a taste for the hay and got used to chewing a high fiber stuff like the hay you could gradually wean them off the grease and by the time they went on pasture in March they would have a nice layer of fat to help provide a backbone of energy going forward.

Jus kind of thinking out loud.

Tom


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## RedHogs (Jul 7, 2006)

Tom, in time of drought we have to feed cows stubble hay....which is just cornstalks or milo stalks....we get them to eat the hay by spraying diluted molasses and water on the stubble bales.... they go nuts on it..... if you put it on a stump the hogs will eat the stump... molasses is cheap and a lower fat option.


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## farmergirl (Aug 2, 2005)

RedHogs said:


> I think that hay as a feed is overated, yes they will eat it but they will grow faster on grain....In my area, a square bales sells for 5 dollars (non-drought year) for a 50lb bale....10 cents a pound. My base feed is about the same...... since I've run out of large corn stalk bales I've used about 1300 small bales this year that was cut off a neighboring farm that was eat up with broom sage and lower quality grasses.....I have added weekly to the barns and it has gone down quickly....but I have still fed full feed rations......If large round bales is the only way you can bale this might be an economical option, or if you have poor quality hay, the hogs are a good use, but real good hay should be sold or fed to animals that will get more of a benifit. This of course assumes, that a farm is equiped for square bales......My winter turn of hogs is completely funded by hay sales to horse people.....any busted bales, wet bales, or just funky hay goes to the hogs. So i guess I feed hay by way of the feed store.
> 
> Corn stalks are super good for hogs, they are great bedding and the hogs will chew on them and get alot of fiber....and much cheaper than hay.


This is VERY useful information! Thanks for sharing it. I can get baled corn stalks if I ask around and am paying $45 for a large grass hay round bale delivered to the farm, so it sounds like hay might work well for us. I don't have a source for inexpensive dairy products...yet.....our jersey won't come into milk til next year.


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## RedneckPete (Aug 23, 2004)

I pay 30 bucks for a 4 ft wide by 5ft high round bale of grass hay, I pick them up, usually five at once.

I chainsaw them in half for my pigs (so that they fit through the door of their house ... this problem will not be occurring with their new barn) and my two pigs (550 lb bred sow and a 350 lb boar) will eat a half bale in about two weeks.

I only feed a little whole corn (about a quarter five gallon bucket) every day, and they seem to do fine. I think it keeps them trim.

Pete


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## farmergirl (Aug 2, 2005)

Good to know, Pete. I've always given the hogs grass hay bedding, from what the horses waste off their round bale. I've never given them hay just for the purpose of feed, but I'm trying to introduce them the idea. Yesterday I gave everybody a couple square flakes of hay, with their grain dumped on top of it, and so far they've just moved it around and rooted through it  Maybe if I give them a round bale they'll get the idea??


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## highlands (Jul 18, 2004)

RedneckPete said:


> I pay 30 bucks for a 4 ft wide by 5ft high round bale of grass hay, I pick them up, usually five at once.


Dang, Pete! You're strong! I never tried picking one up never mind five at once!  (For those who don't know, the round bales weigh 800 to 1,600 lbs each...    )


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## RedHogs (Jul 7, 2006)

The november issue of National Hog Farmer is running a great article on O-3 pork....The use of flax can be a option to get the same feed O-3's as hay....

_Canadian Omega-3 pork is created through a simple shift in diet, using feed enhanced with flax seed. No changes in production, technology or machinery are required. Omega 3's are fatty acids, which are lodged in the pork fat. Pork cuts with more fat will, therefore, have more Omega 3's than leaner cuts.

Flax, also called linseed, has been closely associated with oil-based paints and as the source of linen fabrics. Lately, it has been recognized as a great source of Omega-3 fatty acids and is being promoted for its health benefits in both food and animal feed. A host of new flax-enhanced products are starting to hit the marketplace._

The January issue is running a good article on using fiber, and it's affect of sow's diet and behavior.....The cornstalks are often just the right value of TDM... with lower cost.


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## FL.Boy (Dec 17, 2007)

It seams that if i put some in there for them to eat they don't touch it. But when i use it for there beding they eat it up weird pigs.


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## Gailann Schrader (May 10, 2002)

For myself, I would strongly caution you against putting a round bale in with pigs. 

Like goats, they will eat the BOTTOM and then it will tend to topple over on them.

Pancake Piggies.

When I feed my horses and goats, I have a separate pile that I designate as Pig Hay. Slightly cruddy, wet, etc. I stuff their pig houses FULL of Pig Hay and they eat what they want and bed in the rest. Keeps them happy.

btw: my PBPig with the frostbite is starting to lose her frostbite "shell" on her back and shoulders. VERY disturbing. I don't dare take it off/trim it as it's giving coverage to the new skin under there. It's like a turtle shell, mostly un-attached from her body. I don't know if she'll have any hair on that patch though. So, make sure you have plenty of hay/bedding for them to get in. and for myself? I won't let the boar breed in cold weather. Very disturbing.


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## RedneckPete (Aug 23, 2004)

Gailann Schrader said:


> For myself, I would strongly caution you against putting a round bale in with pigs.
> 
> Like goats, they will eat the BOTTOM and then it will tend to topple over on them.
> 
> Pancake Piggies.


I put them in with my goat too. When they are getting close to falling over I push them over. My pigs don't get that attention. Unless your bales are made of concrete, I have yet to see a bale of hay that could "topple over" and hurt a pig.

Pete


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## highlands (Jul 18, 2004)

We use round bales. Hundreds of them. With piglets, weaners, growers, roasters, finishers, sows, boars. Never had a problem with the bales toppling over and hurting pigs. The bales fall apart as the pigs pull at them. Works great and makes a wonderful nest.

If you are still worried about this, just unroll the bale. It's easy and creates a long blanket on the ground.

Cheers

-Walter
Sugar Mountain Farm
in the mountains of Vermont
http://SugarMtnFarm.com/blog/
http://HollyGraphicArt.com/
http://NoNAIS.org


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## RedHogs (Jul 7, 2006)

I have seen alot of bales fall on goats around here, one big difference is the bale density, in the south we bale with different equipemnt and higer compactaction - due to quicker drydown, also a 4x6 bale was often a very popular Deere baler with some farmers... for a long time down here....They will just blow over and kill a person much less a goat or pig....

So what she's saying maks sense in this area.


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## highlands (Jul 18, 2004)

Red, I'm curious as to how much the bales weigh? Are they 4x4, 4x5, etc? I get bales of differing weights from different farmers I buy from - it varies by about 2x.


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## Gailann Schrader (May 10, 2002)

I usually get 5x6 but the farmer that's gonna bring my next bale says it is 6x6.5 at least - 1500 lbs or better. He can't get it back to my horses. Too wet/frozen/muddy/snowy and his tractor is a huge duallie that will make a mess again... He has to unload it on my driveway. Joy. Driveway Hay for months... I was surprised he quoted me $75 for it.


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## RedHogs (Jul 7, 2006)

They last 4x6's I moved were bermuda and rolled real tight....My skidsteer is a Gehl 6625 70Hp model - about as big as they come....It has a 2100 lift capacity...I can lift the bale but not move them in the mud...I have to use a cab tractor. Mixed grass hay can be moved with ease and is probably about 60% of the weight.

4x6 make real good triple stacks, but are *very* tipsy


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## farmergirl (Aug 2, 2005)

RedHogs said:


> They last 4x6's I moved were bermuda and rolled real tight....My skidsteer is a Gehl 6625 70Hp model - about as big as they come....It has a 2100 lift capacity...I can lift the bale but not move them in the mud...I have to use a cab tractor. Mixed grass hay can be moved with ease and is probably about 60% of the weight.
> 
> 4x6 make real good triple stacks, but are *very* tipsy


I'm gonna have to go take a measuring tape to my round bales...can't say that I've ever seen one tip over from the animals eating and pushing on it. I have TRIED to push over round bales, or even move them a little, and it is ALMOST impossible to do by hand!


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## RedneckPete (Aug 23, 2004)

RedHogs said:


> They last 4x6's I moved were bermuda and rolled real tight....My skidsteer is a Gehl 6625 70Hp model - about as big as they come....It has a 2100 lift capacity...I can lift the bale but not move them in the mud...I have to use a cab tractor. Mixed grass hay can be moved with ease and is probably about 60% of the weight.


I can move a 4x5 round bale of decent grass with a 463 bobcat equipped with forks. The machine is rated (1/2 of tipping weight) for 800 lbs, so I'm sure these bales weigh between 1000 and 1200 lbs. The skidsteer you mention should be able to lift almost two ton. I'd love to lay my hands on a bale weighing two ton.

Pete


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## RedHogs (Jul 7, 2006)

I can lift it, I just can't push thru mud with it. Bermuda is heavy


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## Gailann Schrader (May 10, 2002)

Sincere Apologies to Highlands. I cruised his website againa dn it looks like he feeds LOTS of roundbales and doesn't have squish-age problems.

I wonder, could you use them for a barrier? Or would they eat through them at the "joints" too quickly? 

Not that I will ever probably raise that many pigs at a time... Just thinkin'...


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## highlands (Jul 18, 2004)

Gailann Schrader said:


> I wonder, could you use them for a barrier? Or would they eat through them at the "joints" too quickly?


We build walls of bales across the wind and then protect them with pallets tied together and a line of electric. Or simply the electric if the pressure is low. Works great and gives a wind break for the pigs. We also build simple roofs off the side of the pallets. By this point of the winter the snows are as deep as the bales are high except for where the pigs have tramped it down or I have plowed. Pig yards...

Cheers

-Walter
Sugar Mountain Farm
in the mountains of Vermont
http://SugarMtnFarm.com/blog/
http://HollyGraphicArt.com/
http://NoNAIS.org


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## highlands (Jul 18, 2004)

Gailann Schrader said:


> I usually get 5x6 but the farmer that's gonna bring my next bale says it is 6x6.5 at least - 1500 lbs or better. He can't get it back to my horses. Too wet/frozen/muddy/snowy and his tractor is a huge duallie that will make a mess again...


Those are big bales! This is a good point on the mud - we try to get our hay delivered when it is as dry as possible or frozen up. I have a load of bales coming soon because mud season is in a month or so. Once that hits big trucks, and even small ones, won't be able to travel our roads except on the occasional early morning if we get a hard freeze that re-solidifies the road.

It makes for a bit of a challenge in planning in the fall and then in the spring. Likewise, I'm cautious about delivery hay with the tractor in the field during those times - part of why we make the windrows of hay out where we can simply remove fencing to make the hay available. Unfortunately I can't currently do that with all the hay.

Cheers

-Walter
Sugar Mountain Farm
in the mountains of Vermont
http://SugarMtnFarm.com/blog/
http://HollyGraphicArt.com/
http://NoNAIS.org


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