# World's Smallest Cow



## Eunice (Feb 9, 2005)

http://www.ksl.com/?nid=711&sid=12447390

Mini moo named Swallow in England. Dexter by breed. What amazes me is that she has had nine calves in eleven years.


----------



## francismilker (Jan 12, 2006)

I wonder if they have to let her jump on a goat stanchion for milking? lol.......


----------



## G. Seddon (May 16, 2005)

Very, VERY small, even for a Dexter. Wonder what bull they used? Our smallest one was about 37" -- no better mother on this farm. And, yes, on those little ones, the udders are so close to the ground, some of the calves have to figure out how to bend their necks and tilt their heads in order to nurse.


----------



## genebo (Sep 12, 2004)

We're still waiting for a licensed vet to come measure Bucky for his entry into the Guinness Book. All his paperwork has been completed, but we can't find a vet willing to come out to do the measurement. Guinness requires that it be done by a licensed vet.

Bucky is 2 years old and measures 23" at hip and shoulder.

His owner, the lady in this picture, is 4' 11" tall.










Genebo
Paradise Farm


----------



## Creamers (Aug 3, 2010)

Oh, WOW! Genbo - How Tiny!


----------



## genebo (Sep 12, 2004)

Yeah, at the State Fair, they'd charge you $3.00 just to look at him 

He's a real sweetie. A pet. He thinks he's a goat because he's alway lived with them. His owner's afraid he'll get stepped on or get nothing to eat if left with the cows.

Genebo
Paradise Farm


----------



## Onthebit (Dec 3, 2008)

IMO he looks malnourished....Swallow looks over nourished... I would think a malnourished dwarf is going to be much smaller than he should have been....also Swallow is 10-11? 2 yr old isn't fully grown...


----------



## genebo (Sep 12, 2004)

There's not a chance that Bucky is malnourished. He's a pet and gets the royal treatment. The owner's husband grinds and mixes Bucky's feed himself.

Bucky is the king of the goat herd he lives with. He's the largest of the goats! they are dwarfs, too. He eats whatever he wants, whenever he wants.

Bucky's sire is a typical short legged Dexter, even though he is 1/4 Shorthorn. Bucky's dam is a typical long legged Dexter, though she's 1/4 Shorthorn. My guess is that one of the Shorthorn forms of dwarfism is recessive in his dam. Bucky got a Dexter dwarfing gene from his sire and a Shorthorn dwarfing gene from his dam. The combination of the two forms of dwarfism is what makes him so small.

That's just a theory. There's no way to prove whether it's a fact or not. There's a DNA test for Dexter dwarfism but no test for any of the forms of Shorthorn dwarfism.

Onthebit, the way his owners are dedicated to Bucky, I'd guess you'd be more likely to be malnourished than Bucky would be. He's in hog .... er, .. bull heaven.

The requirement to get in the Guinness book is 1 year old. The current Guinness smallest bull is a 17 month old that measured 27" tall. The Dexter associations set guidelines for height when the animal is 3 years old. However, a well fed bull like Bucky may grow until he's six years old. He might be 27" by then and couldn't beat the Canadian 27" record holder who was so much younger. He's already older than the Canadian record holder. He needs to get into the book before he grows too big, in case he does.

Bucky's grandmother was 46" tall, 1/2 Dexter, 1/2 Shorthorn.

Bucky's paternal grandfather was 40" tall, fullblooded Dexter.

Bucky's maternal grandfather was 38" tall, fullblooded Dexter.

Bucky's mother was 37" tall, 3/4 Dexter, 1/4 Shorthorn.

Bucky's father was 38" tall, 3/4 Dexter, 1/4 Shorthorn.

Bucky weighed 20 lbs at birth. He had a half sister born the night before that was the same size, but she was killed by a roaming dog.

Bucky and his mother were moved to the goat paddock so Bucky wouldn't get stepped on, he was so small. Bucky has been there ever since.

You should come see him. No admission. They're so proud of him that they're happy to show him off. He's a gentle thing, too. He'll lean against your leg so you can scratch his back and neck. He's a trip!

Genebo
Paradise Farm


----------



## Onthebit (Dec 3, 2008)

Maybe its the type of dwarfism your friends are breeding that makes him look so :'( -They breed for this?
Is there the same possibility for a 'bulldog' as when mating 2 dwarf dexters?


----------



## Onthebit (Dec 3, 2008)

Why can't they get a vet to come out? He's small enough anyways...throw him in the back seat and take him to a vet...It ain't rocket science!


----------



## CrashTestRanch (Jul 14, 2010)

Onthebit said:


> Why can't they get a vet to come out? He's small enough anyways...throw him in the back seat and take him to a vet...It ain't rocket science!


:hysterical: too true ...


----------



## Menglish (May 7, 2009)

Gene I know nothing about the dwarfism genes or the affects on the offspring so I'm merely asking questions here.

1. Does the dwarfism also affect horn growth? He has very small (even for his size) horns for a 2 year old bull.

2. Where does the long hair come from? I've got some slightly hairier dexters but nothing like that. Not real up on Shorthorns either but dont' recall ever seeing one with a shaggy mop like that. 

Just curious and wanting to learn.

Mike


----------



## Onthebit (Dec 3, 2008)

Menglish said:


> Gene I know nothing about the dwarfism genes or the affects on the offspring so I'm merely asking questions here.
> 
> 1. Does the dwarfism also affect horn growth? He has very small (even for his size) horns for a 2 year old bull.
> 
> ...


Sorta why I thought malnourished....now thinking the combo dwarf genes?


----------



## Creamers (Aug 3, 2010)

Either way, he is a pet, clearly. Obviously, the folks care for him, so I'm glad the little buy has a home in which he is well loved.


----------



## genebo (Sep 12, 2004)

I really don't have an answer for the horns.

His grandmother was 1/2 Shorthorn and she had horns about 3" long at 18 months. They grew to 7" long when I sold her, at 5 years old.

His Daddy is 1/4 shorthorn and has short horns, too.

Wait, I'm getting an idea! Shorthorn ... short horn ... maybe there's a connection?

Grandma contributed the long hair. When she was on my farm, she would be the only cow with frost on her back on cold mornings. It was probably due to her thicker hair keeping her heat inside.

Speaking of pets, another resident of our county went all the way to Texas to buy a dwarf Angus bull to keep for a pet. He had it steered so it would be gentler. I haven't seen it, and don't know how tall it is, but it draws a lot of visitors, too. Lots of people tell me about it.

You can see pictures of his grandmother here:

http://i270.photobucket.com/albums/jj109/genebo16/11192004Annie1.jpg

http://i270.photobucket.com/albums/jj109/genebo16/11192004Annie2.jpg

You can see a picture of his sire here:

http://i270.photobucket.com/albums/jj109/genebo16/04042008Brian12.jpg

Curly, isn't he?

Here's Bucky when he was one year old:

http://i270.photobucket.com/albums/jj109/genebo16/10232009Bucky1-1.jpg

Genebo
Paradise Farm


----------



## Menglish (May 7, 2009)

Thanks Gene. Honestly I was just curious. I don't know squat about anything I don't personally own...hence the questions.

Mike


----------



## genebo (Sep 12, 2004)

I loved your questions!

I'm sorry you don't own a family cow. They can be so peaceful and serene just to be around. Standing in the pasture beside a sweet natured cow while she's chewing her cud or pressing your face into her flank while milking her can chase away the demons of the day. It's some of the best therapy available.

The closest thing I ever saw to that was "Ole Blue" the bloodhound on Hee-Haw that just laid at your feet and loved you unconditionally. He might have been fictional.

Genebo
Paradise Farm


----------



## Onthebit (Dec 3, 2008)

Back to the original topic about Swallow-the worlds smallest cow; isn't it amazing she has had all those calves and still looks great? She is still a fine specimen too. As far as calves nursing, I have seen them on their knees to nurse off a goat. I have seen a grown cow get on her knees and nurse from a cow who was laying down...Where there's a will there's a way!


----------



## Menglish (May 7, 2009)

Gene I do own cows. I currently have 9 Dexters. 3 mature cows, two yearling bulls (about to be freezer fodder), a yearling heifer, two bull calves and a heifer calf. I'm no where near as knowledgable as you are but I do know about Dexters and the Holsteins, Jerseys, and Brown Swiss I worked around as a youngster. 

The dwarf stuff I don't know.


----------



## Onthebit (Dec 3, 2008)

Menglish said:


> Gene I do own cows. I currently have 9 Dexters. 3 mature cows, two yearling bulls (about to be freezer fodder), a yearling heifer, two bull calves and a heifer calf. I'm no where near as knowledgable as you are but I do know about Dexters and the Holsteins, Jerseys, and Brown Swiss I worked around as a youngster.
> 
> The dwarf stuff I don't know.


Here is a link to some information about this lethal gene. 

http://www.dextercattle.ca/genetics.html


----------



## Menglish (May 7, 2009)

Exactly why I've made sure all mine are Chondrodysplasia free. But I don't think dwarfism and Chondro are the same thing.


----------



## genebo (Sep 12, 2004)

Dwarfism and chondrodysplasia are the same thing in Dexters. Short legged is another name given to dwarf Dexters.

In other breeds there are many types of dwarfism, none of them identical to the Dexter form. The biggest difference between Dexter dwarfism and the other breeds' form of dwarfism is that the Dexter dwarfism is a dominant trait.

That means it only takes one copy of the gene to make a dwarf.

In other breeds, if they only carry one copy of their dwarfism gene, nothing happens. The carrier animal appears normal. The calf has to inherit both copies of the gene in order to be a dwarf.

In Dexters, one copy makes you a dwarf, with legs and some other long bones shorter than normal. These Dexters lead a full, healthy life. However, if the calf inherits both copies of the Dexter dwarfing gene (chondrodysplasia) it will most likely be aborted early and if it does manage to make it to full term and be born, it will not survive. This is the infamous "bulldog" calf, so named because the presence of the two genes caused it to lose it's DNA instructions on how to grow long bones. The upper skull doesn't develop and the bulldog calf's upper jaw is short and the calf looks like an English bulldog.

It can only occur if you breed two dwarf (chondrodysplasia carriers) together. The most common way of absolutely guaranteeing that you will never have a bulldog calf is to avoid breeding two dwarf Dexters together. We have a DNA test that will tell you positively whether your Dexter is a dwarf or not. Sometimes you just can't tell by looking. Even the experts can be fooled.

Dexter dwarfism is dominant and can't hide for a generation or two and then suddenly pop up. Other breeds' form can. Once you have the results of a DNA test that says your cow is a non-carrier, she can never pass a chondro gene to any of her offspring. She doesn't have one to pass.

The same is true of a bull. Any Dexter bull that has been tested and shown to be a non0carrier of chondrodysplasia can never pass the gene on to his offspring, either.

Breeding a proven non-carrier cow to a proven non-carrier bull will always result in a non-carrier calf that does not have and does not carry chondro.

The only way you can get a carrier calf is if one or more of it's parents is a carrier. The only way you can possibly get a bulldog calf is if BOTH of it's parents are carrier. Even then, the odds are just as great that this breeding will produce a non-carrier calf as to result in a bulldog pregnancy. In both cases, it's 25%.

If ever the day comes that the last chondrodysplasia carrier Dexter is eliminated, it will be gone forever. It can never be brought back. It and any other traits that are tied to it will be lost.

Chondrodysplasia isn't even an accurate name for the condition. It means a disorde of the connective tissue. It's not that at all. It's a damaged code for growing long bones.

There are positive aspects to chondrodysplasia:

Dwarf Dexters are shorter (Duh!) making them less intimidating and cuter. Most of the Dexters in petting zoos are short legged Dexters.

Dwarf Dexters move slower, with their shorter legs. Jumping and running doesn't come as easily to the shorties, so they mostly don't do it. They're not as capable athletes, so their bodies grow softer muscle, sort of like human couch potatoes. Tenderer beef is another way of saying it. They don't burn off as many calories, so they gain weight faster and the beef marbles more readily. Dexter beef connoissuers prefer to raise short legged steers.

Show judges are used to judging Angus, Herefords, Shorthorn and the like. They value things like long bodies. To them, short legs look just like long bodies. Short legged Dexters win a lot of shows. Dexter showmen are catching on to this and adding short legged Dexters to their string.

Dwarf Dexters are not as easily excited. They develop a mellow temperament that makes them very easy to be around. They're not as threatening as more agile, heavier cattle.

Dwarf Dexters are beautiful. It's the look that created the breed. Recently some videos of the Grinstead herd in England were made public. They were filmed in the mid-20th century. They appeared to be totally short legged Dexters. It has only been recently that long legged Dexters began to outnumber to shorties. People's preferences change, but it was the preference for these short little cattle that caused them to be collected and a breed developed from them.

I'd love to be able to have an all-dwarf Dexter herd like the Grinstead herd, but can't because of the threat of bulldog calves. So I've settled for a short legged bull surrounded by long legged cows.

The bull is the centerpiece of my farm. He's the one that people drive long distances to see.

Next Wednesday you'll have a chance to go see a few short legged Dexters at the Virginia State Fair and make up your own mind. several owners have indicated that they will be bringing short legged Dexters. You can visit with the Dexters all day. The show starts at 5:00PM.

Let's go where we can see short legged Dexters standing alongside long legged Dexters, beefy types and dairy types. Then we can meet back her next week and tell which one was our favorite.

Genebo
Paradise Farm


----------



## Onthebit (Dec 3, 2008)

I told Eris what Genebo had to say. Here's his response!


----------



## Onthebit (Dec 3, 2008)

:nanner::hobbyhors:nanner:


----------



## Menglish (May 7, 2009)

LOL at the gag!

Genebo, I respect and am glad there are people still breeding the short legged variety. Someday I may even branch out some. For now though I've chosen Chondro free breeding stock. Nothing agains the "shorties" at all. 

Just out of curiosity how heavy do you figure (or know) that your bull is? Also do you find that your average of short calves is equal to the 25% the statistics say? 

I did not realize that the dwarfism and chondro were the same. I'd never heard of chondro in the dairy herds I'd worked in so assumed it was completely different. Learn something new every day.


----------



## Onthebit (Dec 3, 2008)

Menglish said:


> LOL at the gag!
> 
> I did not realize that the dwarfism and chondro were the same. I'd never heard of chondro in the dairy herds I'd worked in so assumed it was completely different. Learn something new every day.


Chondro in Dexter's is a unique type of dwarfism....It is dominant whereas dwarfism in other breeds is recessive. This means that in Dexters a calf 1 copy will express itself as a dwarf and a calf with 2 copies of the gene will be a bulldog. 
In other breeds a calf with 1 copy can show up as normal.


----------



## genebo (Sep 12, 2004)

My short legged Dexter bull is 6 years old and weighs about 900 lbs. He's been this same size for about 3 years.

His calves average about 50% dwarf, 50% non-carriers. That is exactly as the odds predict.

He's used to AI lots of cows of other breeds, mostly first time calvers of the breeds that have difficult births. He throws very small calves. The idea is that the heifer will have no trouble having one of his calves and it will condition them so they won't have so much trouble with their second calves, of their own breed.

Genebo
Paradise Farm


----------



## Onthebit (Dec 3, 2008)

genebo said:


> Dwarf Dexters are beautiful. It's the look that created the breed. Recently some videos of the Grinstead herd in England were made public. They were filmed in the mid-20th century. They appeared to be totally short legged Dexters. It has only been recently that long legged Dexters began to outnumber to shorties. People's preferences change, but it was the preference for these short little cattle that caused them to be collected and a breed developed from them.
> 
> I'd love to be able to have an all-dwarf Dexter herd like the Grinstead herd, but can't because of the threat of bulldog calves. So I've settled for a short legged bull surrounded by long legged cows.
> 
> ...


http://www.britishpathe.com/record.php?id=56823

Are you implying that in those days (1940's) Dwarf Dexters bred true?


----------



## LizD (Dec 4, 2008)

Long leg and short leg are really misnomers for non-carrier and carrier of the chondrodysplasia gene. I have 2 girls, 39 - 40" tall, definitely short legs , but tested chondro free, (non-dwarf) and best of all, are proportionate, in head and legs for their body. Unlike most dwarfs, a 'look' which doesn't make them beautiful to me.


----------



## genebo (Sep 12, 2004)

Hi, Liz.

You know that you and I are never going to agree about dwarf Dexters. I want to preserve them and you want them eliminated. But this isn't about dwarf versus long legged Dexters. As far as I can tell by looking, the 33" tall cow in the Guinness book is a dwarf, just like Bucky.

Dwarf Dexters are to cattle like dachsunds are to dogs. Their legs are shorter than their body proportions call for. Saying a Dexter is proportional is the same as saying it's a long legged, non-carrier, whose legs are proportional to it's body.

For years, the ADCA has shown Pixie of Sussex as their example of a Dexter cow. Pixie is a short legged, dwarf, chondro carrier, non-proportional. Compare her with a cow of any other breed and you'll see why they carry the title "short-legged".










You are mixing terms when you say your girls have short legs. Even though that is true, since they are quite small, they are not short-legged, because that term refers to the disproportionately short legs of dwarf Dexters. Your cattle might better be served with the title of midget, since dwarf doesn't fit.

Why don't you give us a nice side shot of your girls so people can see the difference between them and Pixie.

Genebo
Paradise Farm


----------



## LizD (Dec 4, 2008)

You are so funny Gene! Most accept you as the 'leading authority' on Dexters on this board; but you are far from it. Here are a couple of pics of one of my girls,. I think you will find that her legs are short... but so is the rest of her, chondro free! She milks 25,5 lbs on day ten, weighs 600lbs, maybe and what is that in Holstein translation? But actually I don't breed pets, I'll leave that to you Gene. And btw Bucky is WAY ugly to me.










And here is me, I'm 5'2", but please don't look at the old gal http://i430.photobucket.com/albums/qq26/ElidenFarm/LizandReannagh2.jpg


----------



## onthespot (Oct 7, 2007)

There are hundreds of people in So Cal that would LOVE to have a "Bucky" in their back yard. He'd never go to slaughter, and if he was a she and milked, no one would be trying to compare it to a holstein. To each his own. I don't think he is very good representative of the breed, looks wise. He is scrawney looking and extra hairy, probably because of his increased surface area to mass ratio due to his size, loses heat more easily and is compensating for it. Still, there's a niche for cows like Bucky. I think there's room enough on the forum for everyone's cow. Elbows in.


----------



## LizD (Dec 4, 2008)

Nice eggs. Americanas and Cuckoo Marans or Welsummers? I guess 'back yard' instead of ''barnyard' might be the correct way of looking at it.  We have dogs in our back yard and cattle in our barnyard, but you are right, to each his own.


----------



## genebo (Sep 12, 2004)

Liz,

Your cow looks exactly like Pixie in profile, short legs and all. She's not proportional, not with legs so short.

I printed a transparency of her and laid it over Pixie's picture. Their profiles are almost identical. Yet Pixie is a dwarf and yours is not. I guess that proves that there's more diversity in the breed than I previously thought. It also points out the need for DNA testing to make sure.

I think your cow is very pretty. She has the classic Dexter lines that I like so well. She looks like she could have come from the Grinstead herd.

Pixie is still my favorite Dexter cow. I wish I could have owned her.

I like long legged Dexters, too. Windridge Bantrybeth is a beautiful long legged Dexter cow. There's room in my heart for both body types. I just like the shorties the best.

Onthespot, you described Bucky and his owner perfectly. He's certainly not a typical shape, and he got his name because when he was very young, his teeth showed. But he's her pet and will never lack for a good home.

His two older brothers were quite normal, but they both went to the freezer. They lacked Bucky's charm and unique size. Bucky and his owner need each other and are a perfect fit.

Genebo
Paradise Farm


----------



## Laura Workman (May 10, 2002)

Gene, thank you so much for the rundown on the advantages of short-legged Dexters! Can I copy it? I'd like to use it on my website, with proper credit of course. -Laura <Picking up my Dexter heifer today, and SOOOOO excited!!!>


----------



## genebo (Sep 12, 2004)

Ms. Jensen,

I'm no expert on the subject, I just know what I like. I have no problem with other people liking other things.

I try to make sure that what I post to the internet doesn't have any dumb mistakes or typos in it, but don't always succeed. I've had both. I'd be honored to have you repeat any thing I post here, only don't make it sound like I'm an expert. I gathered a lot of the information I repeat from searching articles on the internet, written by real experts. Plus my own experiences, of course.

I'm just a huge fan of the breed, especially the short legged ones.

I hope you enjoy your new little Dexter girl as much as I've enjoyed all mine. Share a picture with us, please.

Genebo
Paradise Farm

"Mommy, when I grow up I want to post on internet forums!"
"Sorry, Honey, you can't do both!"


----------



## Onthebit (Dec 3, 2008)

She is beautiful and really a credit to Dexterdom! No need to fiddle with dwarfism at all when we have these types around.


----------



## Onthebit (Dec 3, 2008)

I am glad though to see the two of you getting along. Let me clarify my position; I have nothing against breeding chondro....what I do oppose is breeding chondro to chondro (risking a dead calf) or chondro to a recessive dwarf gene from some other breed. w....Don't argue with me about Bucky Gene because you have posted about him for the last year and more....he is chondro and some other dwarf gene (your own supposition) Its not healthy and its not moral!

Also a lot of dwarf breeders sell out their poor stock to unsuspecting people......hmmmmmmmmm??????????

You said don't say anything bad about bucky 'cause he can't respond? Don't post his picture at every opportunity you have...and DON'T STEAL THE SPOTLIGHT FROM A LEGITIMATE RECORD HOLDER!

Nuff said- I'm taking my hockey cards home!


----------



## lasergrl (Nov 24, 2007)

Im just gonna play devils advocate here and wonder what is wrong with someone else breeding chondro to chondro. If they want to deal with a dead calf then thats their dime. Seems most are aborted long before they would be full term anyways so not wasting too much valuable breeding time for the cow owner. As far as I can tell its no better then killing dairy bucklings as soon as they hit the ground. So what? I just dont see many posts about bulldog calves, and there are very few examples online. Why is that anyways? Are they more rare then people let on, or is it so hush hush its embarassing to talk about? You would think there would be pics all over.


----------



## Onthebit (Dec 3, 2008)

I suppose its because we can't separate the 'pet' breeders from legitimate breeders and the 'pet' breeders make the whole breed look 'bad'!


----------



## Onthebit (Dec 3, 2008)

And thats sad to hear about the bucklings....they do that with Jersey bull calves too when the market's down....


----------



## Laura Workman (May 10, 2002)

Onthebit, Can I ask what that cow weighs? How tall she is? I don't know whether it's perspective, but from the photo, she looks quite large for a Dexter. Very pretty and large. Thanks!


----------



## Onthebit (Dec 3, 2008)

Its not my cow....she weights @ 600 lbs and is under 40" 

She belongs to Liz-I reposted the pic on her behalf....


----------



## Onthebit (Dec 3, 2008)

i hope you mean 'large' as in a fat pig...OH ya her cows r fat and so r mine...I went to a sale yesterday that had 'designer' cows....they were skinny minnies like "Twiggy" Yuck!


----------



## LizD (Dec 4, 2008)

lasergrl said:


> Im just gonna play devils advocate here and wonder what is wrong with someone else breeding chondro to chondro. If they want to deal with a dead calf then thats their dime. Seems most are aborted long before they would be full term anyways so not wasting too much valuable breeding time for the cow owner. As far as I can tell its no better then killing dairy bucklings as soon as they hit the ground. So what? I just dont see many posts about bulldog calves, and there are very few examples online. Why is that anyways? Are they more rare then people let on, or is it so hush hush its embarassing to talk about? You would think there would be pics all over.


Hi Lasergrl, the reason, I think, that you don't see many posts on bulldogs is that most breeders who want the chondro gene, know today that they can avoid the problem of bulldogs by not breeding chondro to chondro. I think Gene said the same things when he was talking about having Brenn, who is his herdsire, and a carrier, but his cows being all non-carriers. That is frankly the responsible thing to do in the case of the Dexter form of chondrodysplasia. I don't know where the stats saying a bulldog calf is usually aborted long before they are full term, because usually a bulldog calf that is carried, is delivered early about 7 months. It is hard on the dam, emotionally and physically, and she will have a much shorter lactation with less milk. This is according to B. Rutherford in her book, My Love Affaire with the Dexters. If you would like to see a picture of a bulldog calf, most of the Associations have one as a warning to breeders. I won't post one because it isn't pretty  but you can go to the Canadian Association page http://www.dextercattle.ca/ or one of the two US ones and I am sure you will find one if you are interested. I think it is a very big deal. Liz


----------



## lakeportfarms (Apr 23, 2009)

I am going to weigh in here and support Gene and his efforts to maintain the Dexter breed. We are attempting to do the same. We have a lot of our "pets" go to homes where people are just getting started with cattle, and they are intimidated by the larger animals. Gene was very articulate with his assessment of the breed. The carriers have, in my experience, been much more docile and less trouble to work with than our non carrier cows. We have had two bulldog calves, both at about 5 months, as a result of just not being able to keep our bull out of the pasture that had our one carrier cow. But we've also had a beautiful 2009 heifer born out of that same cow and bull. Unfortunately (we'll miss her a lot) we had to finally sell the cow to a nice family of 9 that is making great use of the 3 gallons/day of milk she is producing. This is our bull, a carrier, and you should see the calves he produces out of non carrier girls. By the way, he stands 39" and when we weighed him in June he was 1145 lbs. 

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_Jdt6XRXzVX8/TAMuhzsaTEI/AAAAAAAAAgw/q0t1nbsxGnY/s1600/P1010039.JPG

There are plenty of breeders who have plenty of non-carriers, please accept that there are some of us that wish to preserve the unique nature of the Dexter breed, and rather than using DNA to weed out the carrier animals, we use DNA and Chondro testing to intelligently breed so as to minimize or eliminate the occurrence of bulldog calves However, we also favor the look and temperament of the carrier animals. Even our non carrier calves seem to inherit a lot of the gentle nature of our bull.


----------



## onthespot (Oct 7, 2007)

WOOO!!! now to my eye, THAT's a BULL!!! What a beauty! Is he **** for polled?


----------



## cowkeeper (Feb 17, 2007)

lakeportfarms said:


> We have had two bulldog calves, both at about 5 months, as a result of just not being able to keep our bull out of the pasture that had our one carrier cow. But we've also had a beautiful 2009 heifer born out of that same cow and bull. Unfortunately (we'll miss her a lot) we had to finally sell the cow to a nice family of 9 that is making great use of the 3 gallons/day of milk she is producing. This is our bull, a carrier, and you should see the calves he produces out of non carrier girls. "
> 
> "we use DNA and Chondro testing to intelligently breed so as to minimize or eliminate the occurrence of bulldog calves..


 Lakeport, IMO your post illustrates perfectly the problems inherent in keeping dwarf stock. It does not help much to test your cattle for dwarfism, then let the cow conceive to the bull three times, resulting in two bulldogs and one live calf. Yes, accidents do happen, but three times? If one animal had been non-dwarf, all the calves would have been viable.ck


----------



## lakeportfarms (Apr 23, 2009)

cowkeeper said:


> Lakeport, IMO your post illustrates perfectly the problems inherent in keeping dwarf stock. It does not help much to test your cattle for dwarfism, then let the cow conceive to the bull three times, resulting in two bulldogs and one live calf. Yes, accidents do happen, but three times? If one animal had been non-dwarf, all the calves would have been viable.ck


If you read the post you should also see that we ultimately sold the cow. That carrier bull is not our only bull. We did have a non carrier bull that we bred to the carrier cow. We loved the cow very much, and enjoyed milking her, she was part of our family. Our young children would ride her around the farm. Unfortunately we had a hard time containing the carrier bull in his pasture with the other cows. She was our only carrier, so we had to make the tough decision to sell her to a nice family. It didn't work out twice...oh well...would you prefer we gave her a shot of Lute when we found out it happened? Now, if you put a high birthweight throwing bull with a small heifer or even a cow, or breed heifers too early, THAT is irresponsible as it jeopardizes the health of a mature cow.

The recent multiple time ADCA grand national champion Dexter bull "Wieringa's Ned" was the result of two carrier animals breeding. He is a non carrier. It has worked out well for them... Clearly some very nice bulls and heifers can result from the breeding of exceptional parents, though it is not something that you want to do on a frequent basis.


----------



## cowkeeper (Feb 17, 2007)

lakeportfarms said:


> It didn't work out twice...oh well...would you prefer we gave her a shot of Lute when we found out it happened? Now, if you put a high birthweight throwing bull with a small heifer or even a cow, or breed heifers too early, THAT is irresponsible as it jeopardizes the health of a mature cow.
> 
> The recent multiple time ADCA grand national champion Dexter bull "Wieringa's Ned" was the result of two carrier animals breeding. He is a non carrier. It has worked out well for them... Clearly some very nice bulls and heifers can result from the breeding of exceptional parents, though it is not something that you want to do on a frequent basis.


 Lakeport: clearly, you feel that mating two dwarf animals is worth the risk or of little consequence ("Oh well"). If we are talking ethics and as you asked, yes, if faced with the choice, I do think a Lute shot given early to prevent implantation of an embryo, would be preferable to risking a bulldog calf. So much for using "DNA and chondro testing so as to minimize or eliminate the occurance of bulldog calves." ck.


----------



## genebo (Sep 12, 2004)

Lakeportfarms, Those are some impressive lines on your bull.

Your point about Wieringa's Ned is a good point. People who never bred Dexters prior to the development of the chondro test don't realize that almost all the Dexters now living owe their existence at some point to a breeding between two carrier Dexters. It's just the way it was prior to 2005, I think it was, when the chondro test was made available for the first time.

Before anyone makes the claim that they only breed non-carriers, they should state that they had their animals DNA tested to make sure. Some of those supposed non-carriers aren't. I know, I bought 2 of them, then had them tested. They were carriers, but came from a renowned carrier-free herd and looked very much like a typical long-legged Dexter heifer.

Just think, your bull, as massive looking as he is, is only 6" taller than the world record smallest cow that started this thread! Remarkable.

Genebo
Paradise Farm


----------



## ~Tomboy~ (Oct 13, 2005)

genebo said:


> People who never bred Dexters prior to the development of the chondro test don't realize that almost all the Dexters now living owe their existence at some point to a breeding between two carrier Dexters. It's just the way it was prior to 2005, I think it was, when the chondro test was made available for the first time.


I really have to disagree with your comment above. before the test was made available people would try and measure the cannon bone. The test was also available before 2005, Dr. Beaver was doing it then.

I also have to strongly disagree on what others have said about carriers being more docile than non-carriers. Please, show me ANY statistics proving that. No talk just the facts. I have folks come and visit us all the time who can go out in my pasture and touch & pet my herd.

As far as them being beefier below is what I've copied off of the ADCA website:

"The degree of dwarfism expressed is not consistent. At this time, the cause for the variation is not known. Carriers of this gene appear to be much more heavily muscled, but this is because muscle that is designed to attach to a normal bone is actually compressed onto a shortened one, causing the muscle to bulge. Carriers often show a greater spring of rib or can be potbellied because the organs retain their normal size yet must fit within the reduced skeletal framework, or drop below it". 

http://www.dextercattle.org/genCDChondroarticle.htm


Hope this will help clarify some of this discussion.

A proud breeder of tested or progeny of tested non-carrier chondro free Dexters. 
All listed as such on the ADCA pedigree site.

Barb


----------



## lakeportfarms (Apr 23, 2009)

I think Gene expressed it pretty well with his description of how the shorter legs results in an animal that does not possess the same athletic ability of the longer leg versions. We have and had had both, and from birth, the obvious (and later tested) carrier calves are OVERALL far easier to halter train, do not bolt from us after just a short time in close contact with them, and are generally more agreeable with being led and handled. In time our non carriers are very friendly as well, it just takes MORE time to get them there. Measuring this, as you know, is impossible, so I cannot provide "facts" to support it, we'll just have to agree to disagree about this.


----------



## Menglish (May 7, 2009)

From the pictures posted I'd also say the neck was shorter on these cows. Both the bull linked and the cow posted have short to almost no necks. 

I stated earlier that I had nothing against the shorties and I don't. I'm glad we are free to breed or do with our animals what we want to do. My initial posts were merely asking questions. I for one think I'll stick to the long legged versions. Just exercising my freedom to do what I want to with my animals.

Mike


----------



## Onthebit (Dec 3, 2008)

lakeportfarms said:


> I think Gene expressed it pretty well with his description of how the shorter legs results in an animal that does not possess the same athletic ability of the longer leg versions. We have and had had both, and from birth, the obvious (and later tested) carrier calves are OVERALL far easier to halter train, do not bolt from us after just a short time in close contact with them, and are generally more agreeable with being led and handled. In time our non carriers are very friendly as well, it just takes MORE time to get them there. Measuring this, as you know, is impossible, so I cannot provide "facts" to support it, we'll just have to agree to disagree about this.



:hijacked::hijacked::hijacked:

The two of you admit they are 'tamer' because they are physically restrained by being carriers...I can't see how breeding cattle to a lifetime of physical anguish can be moral or humane!


----------



## onthespot (Oct 7, 2007)

anguish?


----------



## Onthebit (Dec 3, 2008)

onthespot said:


> anguish?


Stiffness and pain associated with dwarfism!


----------



## Onthebit (Dec 3, 2008)

genebo said:


> Lakeportfarms,
> 
> Just think, your bull, as massive looking as he is, is only 6" taller than the world record smallest cow that started this thread! Remarkable.
> 
> ...


And add 5-8" if he wasn't a dwarf and what do you have? A huge Dexter!


----------



## Onthebit (Dec 3, 2008)

Genebo I can find no reference to a Canadian 27" bull. Please quote your sources.


----------



## genebo (Sep 12, 2004)

Barbara,

The link to the ADCA article you gave is for an article Carol Davidson wrote about the work that Julie Cavanagh did in Australia. It's her opinion of what the published report said. You can read the authors' summary of the report here:

http://www.dex-info.net/summchond.htm

The old tale about dwarves whose organs grew while their skeletons didn't came from observations of dwarves from other breed. That particular form is in Angus, but not Dexters. In Dexters, the body achieves a nearly normal length, width, circumference and depth while the legs don't grow as long. There are other minor affectations, such as the wider face and slightly shorter nose, but these have no effect on function.

I think if you'll re-read the original paper that Julie Cavanagh wrote you'll see that a lot has been added to the myths that are told about Dexter dwarfism that wasn't in the research.

Go back through your Dexters' ancestries and see if you can find even one that never had two dwarf Dexters paired as breeding partners: G,g,g,g,grandparents? That's what I mean when I say that they owe their very existence to the fact that someone once bred two dwarf Dexters together. If it had never happened, your Dexters (and mine) wouldn't be here.

Before the chondro DNA test was made available, you say that you and others measured the cannon bone to tell which ones were dwarves. I didn't measure, I just looked at them to tell which ones were short legged. But Julie Cavanagh wrote that the cannon bone measurement is only accurate 83% of the time! That means that no matter how hard you tried, you still probably misidentified 17% of them!

The DNA test for chondro has been a blessing. It gives us control of our breeding practices for the FIRST TIME. Those who want to know can do so for a small fee, at almost every lab in the US.

I do love the short legged Dexters, but choose to avoid bulldog calves as much as possible. Thank you, Julie Cavanagh, for the DNA test that lets me do that.

You old-liners who do not use it and depend upon the old methods for identifying which type your Dexter is will continue to get the same old spotty results that everybody used to.

The test does absolutely no harm to the Dexter. It only involves pulling a few hairs from the tail switch.

Genebo
Paradise Farm


----------



## Onthebit (Dec 3, 2008)

http://dex-info.blogspot.com/2009/01/original-article-2-when-is-dexter-not.html

"The local population soon realized that there were now some rules required in the breeding of these cattle. The basic one was to never breed a short-legged animal to another short-legged type. If you did, you apparently concentrated the dwarfism effect and the result was often a much-deformed calf that was born dead. Their solution was simply to make sure you always bred a short-leg to a long-leg &#8211; this way you were almost always safe &#8211; as of course you were when breeding long-legs together."


----------



## LizD (Dec 4, 2008)

Uh Gene; don't know if you noticed but that is just a 'summary' of the article so I'm not certain, not having read the full article, but do know that Carol Davidson was involved and might have a perspective shown in the full article, not the summary. Worth checking out if you could post a link to the full article. Also you will find in the summary that the cannon bone length, measurements prior to the dna test, were about 83% correct and many breeders, including Beryl Rutherford used that as a way to discriminate between carrier and non-carrier. They did this in order to avoid the bull dog calf.


----------



## genebo (Sep 12, 2004)

Liz,

Yes, I noticed it is a 'summary'. That's why I wrote, "You can read the authors' *summary* of the report here:" 

The summary is available on-line, but I think you have to buy the full report in order to read it. I haven't paid, so I don't have a link.

In 2004, the ADCA Bulletin printed a longer version of the report, with more information and more charts. If you know any American Dexter Cattle Association members who still have their copies, maybe you could read theirs.

Unfortunately, 83% correct and 17% incorrect mean exactly the same thing. Any breeder, no matter who they are, that relies upon measuring the cannon bone to tell them whether their Dexter is a dwarf or not will be wrong about 1 time out of 6.

Using cannon bone measurement to determine it, I think the cow you posted a picture of would appear to be a dwarf. Did you have her DNA tested?

If you'll read Beryl Rutherford's own words about how she went about selecting against cows who bore bulldog calves to develop her herd, you'll find that her work preceded all modern knowledge of physical means to determine which ones are dwarfs. The very term, "carrier", wasn't even in popular use until after Julie Cavanagh's report was published. Ms. Rutherford's work was completed by then.

Does anyone know just what year it was that someone put 2 and 2 together to figure that in order to get a bulldog calf, you had to breed a short leg cow AND a short leg bull together. Or even which decade that took place in. I'm sure it was sometime after Ms. Rutherford started her herd, for her first attempts did not work out. She may have been the one to figure it out!

I don't know if you noticed, but in the Australian study, there was one non-carrier that was under 38" tall. That's only 5" taller than the World's Smallest Cow, who appears to be a carrier.

I don't know if you noticed, also, but by 2004, the Australians had bred their Dexters so large that many of those in the study, including some shortlegged ones, were larger than the ideal height of 44". I've heard a couple of Australians complain about how big the Dexters are over there.

Genebo
Paradise Farm


----------



## LizD (Dec 4, 2008)

According to her book it was Beryl Rutherford, with the Woodmagic herd, that was the first to be able to breed out the chondro gene and guarantee her bulls, although small in stature, wouldn't produce a bulldog calf. It's a little difficult to find exactly the time lines though, whether the late 70's or early 80's. My cow's grandam was tested, homozygous normal, HN, her dam was sired by Trillium Cluny, a bull directly from the Woodmagic imports, also HN even though he stood 42" at 7yrs old! And Reannagh, was sired by Riverhill Saturn's Galaxy, also tested HN. Her full sister is even a bit smaller than her but we'll see how she matures. There are many very small, non-carrier cows and bulls in the states, I think that I heard between 38 - 40" average with some breeders. And yes you are right, given the height differentials shown by the Cavannaugh study for those cows, that were HN, homozygous normal and those that were HC, heterozygous for chondrodysplasia, that 38" non-carrier cow would have been the same height as the (supposed....but I think she is a carrier) 'smallest cow in the world' that started this thread


----------



## FEF (Jan 30, 2007)

lakeportfarms said:


> If you read the post you should also see that we ultimately sold the cow. That carrier bull is not our only bull. We did have a non carrier bull that we bred to the carrier cow. We loved the cow very much, and enjoyed milking her, she was part of our family. Our young children would ride her around the farm. Unfortunately we had a hard time containing the carrier bull in his pasture with the other cows. She was our only carrier, so we had to make the tough decision to sell her to a nice family. It didn't work out twice...oh well...would you prefer we gave her a shot of Lute when we found out it happened? Now, if you put a high birthweight throwing bull with a small heifer or even a cow, or breed heifers too early, THAT is irresponsible as it jeopardizes the health of a mature cow.
> 
> The recent multiple time ADCA grand national champion Dexter bull "Wieringa's Ned" was the result of two carrier animals breeding. He is a non carrier. It has worked out well for them... Clearly some very nice bulls and heifers can result from the breeding of exceptional parents, though it is not something that you want to do on a frequent basis.


As a non-Dexter person, I'm wondering if the person you sold this cow to knows the problems they face in breeding her to a clean bull? Frankly, I find it appalling that someone would intentionally breed genetically damaged animals with the full knowledge they will pass on the problem genetics to their offspring.


----------



## Onthebit (Dec 3, 2008)

FEF said:


> As a non-Dexter person, I'm wondering if the person you sold this cow to knows the problems they face in breeding her to a clean bull? Frankly, I find it appalling that someone would intentionally breed genetically damaged animals with the full knowledge they will pass on the problem genetics to their offspring.


But they're sooooo cute!! Here is some more cute dwarves and these ones (the bovines) are getting married.....SOOOOO CUTE!!!

http://www.thai-blogs.com/index.php/2005/07/11/dwarf_cows_exchange_vows?blog=24

:bouncy:


----------



## genebo (Sep 12, 2004)

FEF,

Even a lot of Dexter people don't understand what you're asking. The person who bought the cow, and has a non-carrier bull, doesn't face any problems. It's impossible to have a bulldog calf from such a mating.

Genetics are a complicated subject. Even people who make their living in genetics don't agree on everything. There are factors such as dominance and recessiveness, sex linking, co-dominance, maternal DNA, and on and on. Dexter chondrodysplasia is unique to Dexters and is one of the simplest forms of inherited trait: It's dominant. If it doesn't show itself, it's not there. It can't hide for generations and pop up out of nowhere, like other breeds dwarfism can. It's not to be confused with the Hereford "Snorter" dwarfism, that was so hard to eliminate because they couldn't find it.

Also, a single copy of the gene doesn't harm the carrier. They live long lives and bring lots of happiness to their owners, who often like them better that they would larger cows. I'm particularly fond of the smaller dwarf bulls.

As a non-Dexter person, you couldn't be expected to know.

It's one of the drawbacks to owning dwarf cattle. We're constantly educating our buyers about the little cattle, so they can make the proper breeding choices. About half the people who buy from me end up deciding against owning dwarf cattle and instead buy a non-carrier calf.

A non-carrier Dexter calf is 100% free of any genetics that cause dwarfism. It doesn't matter whether it's parents had it or not. If they didn't get it, they're 'clean', as you put it.

The new owner of the cow will get some non-carrier, 'clean' calves and some dwarf calves. They will be able to elect whether to keep the calves, sell them, or put them in the freezer. Dexters do make the best beef, and steers are in short supply.

I just bought two steers from another Dexter breeder and I specified that I wanted dwarf steers, because I'm convinced they make the best beef, and I'm putting my money where my mouth is. Yum!

The only place in the entire world where you can get a dwarf Dexter steer to eat is from a dwarf Dexter. That, and fainting goat, and Tamworth pig and Muscovy duckling. Gourmet's delights.

Genebo
Paradise Farm


----------



## Onthebit (Dec 3, 2008)

Well according to the people who sell Dexter beef in large quantities, the dwarves are not consistent in quality and are too fatty. 

Anyways are you going to post your source about the 27" Canadian bull Gene or was that just a lie?


----------



## lakeportfarms (Apr 23, 2009)

FEF said:


> As a non-Dexter person, I'm wondering if the person you sold this cow to knows the problems they face in breeding her to a clean bull? Frankly, I find it appalling that someone would intentionally breed genetically damaged animals with the full knowledge they will pass on the problem genetics to their offspring.


The cow was bred to our small non-carrier bull that throws small birthweight calves. We fully disclose all history to any purchasers of our cattle, including the information regarding breeding selection. Their plan was to A.I. in the future to avoid not only the potential for the bulldog gene, but also to be able to select a bull that throws small calves for calving ease.

Onthebit, I hope you just have a bit of a sarcastic wit and are joking with some of your comments posted here. If not, how about posting some photos and health history such as family risk of heart disease, cancer, etc. of your children, parents, or yourself for that matter, so others can comment about whether or not you or your family should have the opportunity or ability to pass on your genetics to future generations? You seem to have no problem making fun of others, such as your dwarf photo that you posted, so you should be able to take it.


----------



## cowkeeper (Feb 17, 2007)

lakeportfarms said:


> "and are joking with some of your comments posted here. If not, how about posting some photos and health history such as family risk of heart disease, cancer, etc. of your children, parents, or yourself for that matter, so others can comment about whether or not you or your family should have the opportunity or ability to pass on your genetics to future generations?"


Lakeport, Ethics again? I hope you are not anthropomorphising. First, asking me about Lutalyse shot instead of allowing your cow to implant a bulldog fetus. Humans with serious genetic diseases do make those decisions about themselves for the sake of future generations, (not just "risk of", which can usually be helped by lifestyle choices). It would be one thing if Dexter dwarfism was not lethal when homozygous, but unfortunately it is. Breeding two dwarf carriers is playing Russian roulette with your cattle and IMO unconscionable.ck


----------



## Onthebit (Dec 3, 2008)

lakeportfarms said:


> Onthebit, I hope you just have a bit of a sarcastic wit and are joking with some of your comments posted here. If not, how about posting some photos and health history such as family risk of heart disease, cancer, etc. of your children, parents, or yourself for that matter, so others can comment about whether or not you or your family should have the opportunity or ability to pass on your genetics to future generations? You seem to have no problem making fun of others, such as your dwarf photo that you posted, so you should be able to take it.


----------



## lasergrl (Nov 24, 2007)

Dairy cows have calves pulled at birth anyway, so it really shouldnt matter to the cow if its a live calf or dead calf. Sure dexters get to keep the calf usually but why the double standard saying its cruel for the cow to have to grieve its calf when majority in this country have them taken away anyways.
How is a dead calf any worse then slaughtering it for meat. I just dont really understand the perspective. Not taking sides as I wouldnt breed to chondros on purpose because i wouldnt want to waste time with a deformed calf, but from an ethics view its seems all the same to me.


----------



## onthespot (Oct 7, 2007)

Onthebit, I'm not a regular here, but to me you are coming off as bitter and angry and rude in this thread. You oughta check yourself.


----------



## 65284 (Sep 17, 2003)

You may as well give it up Gene. You are correct; if all carrier cattle had been eliminated there would most likely be no Dexters today, most certainly not in the form we and a lot of other folks like. 

Some individuals here seem unable to tolerate another point of view or admit/realize that some good Dexters do come out of carriers and those good ones are necessary to maintain the genetic diversity of the breed. 

If these folks had their way all carriers would be culled and an already limited gene pool would become a small gene puddle. Then those &#8220;do away with all of the shortys&#8221; proponents would begin shrilling about the evils of inbreeding.

Too bad they can't let others enjoy the type of cattle they prefer without having to endure them spewing their "we&#8217;re morally superior" vitriol" at those who don&#8217;t subscribe to their point of view.

I&#8217;ve engaged in this debate with Carol Davidson, the Fleharty&#8217;s and numerous others. No one is going to change any one else&#8217;s mind on the subject so this disagreement will go as long as there are Dexters. I&#8217;m not a newbie, I have been breeding Dexters for 20 years and I know what I like. 

I am not going to be drawn into a protracted discussion of this already beaten to death argument; this is all I am going to say about this very contentious subject.


----------



## cowkeeper (Feb 17, 2007)

65284 said:


> or admit/realize that some good Dexters do come out of carriers and those good ones are necessary to maintain the genetic diversity of the breed.
> 
> If these folks had their way all carriers would be culled and an already limited gene pool would become a small gene puddle. Then those âdo away with all of the shortysâ proponents would begin shrilling about the evils of inbreeding.


Sorry 65284 but this line of reasoning doesn't make sense, genetically speaking, because dwarf cattle producing non-dwarf offspring would have passed their genes on in the same way as two long-leg parents would. There would therefore be no reduction in the gene pool by selecting the non-dwarf offspring of a dwarf parent, except of course selecting out the obvious one - chondrodysplasia. There is no credible evidence that the chondrodysplasia gene is linked with others that would disappear if chondro was selected against.ck


----------



## genebo (Sep 12, 2004)

cowkeeper,

I'm going to give you this one time, since you don't own any short legged Dexters aand have no way of knowing this for yourself.

The most obvious result of a Dexter being a dwarf is that it is shorter than a non-dwarf. Duh! This is an endearing trait to many of us. Make all the claims you want about how non-dwarf Dexters are short, too, but we have eyes. We have both kinds, so we know better.

Another endearing trait is that our shorties are more likeable, due to their gentler nature and lack of quick movements.

The by-product of this slower, gentler nature is tenderer meat and an owner that is less intimidated by the cow or bull. Talk about contented cows? How about contented owners?

If you have taken part in any studies that refute any of these claims, then by all means share the study with us. If you're just like the rest of us who have our own opinions, then that's fine, too. We all have a right to our opinions.

We are all capable of seeing, hearing, reading and forming an opinion, and most of us resent it when someone seeks to force upon us an opinion that doesn't agree with our own observations or fact-finding. We tend to resent and reject the person who does that.

The next time you feel the irrepressible urge to berate someone for their personal choices, think about the benefits of getting one of those sweet little contented cows for yourself. They have an amazing calming effect on people.

I'm going out and pet my little old shortie bull right now, and let the stress fly away.










Genebo
Paradise Farm


----------



## cowkeeper (Feb 17, 2007)

genebo said:


> The next time you feel the irrepressible urge to berate someone for their personal choices, think about the benefits of getting one of those sweet little contented cows for yourself. They have an amazing calming effect on people.
> Genebo
> Paradise Farm


Genebo, My post was about retaining all the same GENES, minus chondro. Are you confusing me with another poster? Nowhere have I "berated" anyone for choosing to keep a dwarf animal.ck


----------



## 65284 (Sep 17, 2003)

cowkeeper said:


> Sorry 65284 but this line of reasoning doesn't make sense, genetically speaking, because dwarf cattle producing non-dwarf offspring would have passed their genes on in the same way as two long-leg parents would. There would therefore be no reduction in the gene pool by selecting the non-dwarf offspring of a dwarf parent, except of course selecting out the obvious one - chondrodysplasia. There is no credible evidence that the chondrodysplasia gene is linked with others that would disappear if chondro was selected against.ck


I said I wasn't going to do this but maybe I wasn't clear, so I will try one more time. 

If all of the Dexters that are carriers were eliminated, as some people advocate, there were no dwarf cattle to produce non-dwarf offspring. So, if probably half of the collective herd is removed there would certainly be less genetic diversity.

If there are 10 Dexter cows of differing bloodlines in a herd and 5 are disposed of the diversity of that herd is reduced.


----------



## Laura Workman (May 10, 2002)

I'm with Onthebit . . . the short-legged Dexters are so darn cute! They're the ones I fell in love with at the fair 20 years ago. If I'd been able to find a lovely little registered short-legged Dexter for sale with the bloodlines I want within a reasonable distance, I surely would have purchased her. The only carrier I could find was definitely NOT for sale, and even if she had been available, another family had already had dibs on her for at least a couple years. 

In the end, I bought a nice, halter-trained, dark red (e/e), registered heifer that I believe is long-legged, whose mother is a family milk cow with a nice udder. My plan is to get her well trained to yoke and stanchion, and AI breed her to a fine, red, short-legged bull (2006 and 2007 ADCA Grand Champion Bull White-O-Morn Chief). When she freshens, I'll train her to milk. If her baby is a short-legged heifer, I'll raise her up and AI breed her to a tiny, long-legged bull, SGF LCIN Tighe. When she freshens, I'll sell my long-legged cow. At least that's my plan for now. 

Gene, what a cute little bull! For fun, here's a picture of my new little cow!


----------



## genebo (Sep 12, 2004)

What a pretty little Dexter. How old is she?

That cute little dwarf bull whose picture I posted was 10 years old in that picture.

Here's one a little younger.










What's not to love?

Genebo
Paradise Farm


----------



## Laura Workman (May 10, 2002)

She's 6 months old. I'm hoping she's from a line that gets height early, and then spends time filling out, as I'd prefer that she not get a lot taller. For comparison, I'm 5'3".

What a cute little bull! How old is he? And how tall are you?


----------



## Onthebit (Dec 3, 2008)

Owning a dwarf Dexter is all pro: They are cute, cuddly, make great pets, taste great, are tender and best of all when you get hungry and want to eat your pet dexter, they are easy to catch because they don't move very fast!


----------



## genebo (Sep 12, 2004)

That bull was just over a year old when the picture was taken. I was 6'2". The bull grew up. I got shorter.

Here's the same bull grown up:










Genebo
Paradise Farm


----------

