# 12 volt killing question



## MN Mom (May 19, 2003)

Will a 12 volt shock from a deep cycle battery kill a mouse or a rat?

Want to make a shock trap. We are being over run now that the farmer has took the corn down.

Jon


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## Jim-mi (May 15, 2002)

No
To low of voltage


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## Cabin Fever (May 10, 2002)

I doubt it unless the mouse is wet. 

Why don't you make a 5-gallon pail trap? Drill two 1-inch holes near the top of a 5-gallon pail on opposite end of the pail. Then cut off both ends of a soup can so all that you're left with is a metal tube. Buy a 1-inch wooden dowel rod and put it thru the can and then thru the holes in the 5-gallon pail. Now stack some wood on one side of the pail where one of the dowel ends are. Put some peatnut butter on the metal soup can. Lastly, fill the bucket half full with water. Are you following me here? 

The mouse will climb up the wood and over to the wooden dowel. He'll crawl on the dowel to the soup can. When he gets on the soup can, the can will spin and the mouse will fall off into the water and drown. You can catch and kill dozens of mice a night using this method.


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## SmartAZ (Sep 17, 2006)

In the evening, half fill a can with water. Put a paper over the top with a rubber band to hold it on. Cut an X in the center of the paper. Suspend a bit of smelly bait such as peanut butter above the X and provide a stick or something so the mouse can get on top of the can. In the morning, dump the drowned critter.

I've never tried this for rats. I hear they are strong swimmers.


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## giffy (Jul 22, 2005)

A while back I picked up a Victor electronic mouse trap (I think they also make one for rats). The trap uses four AA batteries. At first I thought it was a joke, then I began getting a steady stream of mice getting zapped. So far it has worked good. Now I am not sure on this, but I thought AA batteries put out 1.5 volts each which seems enough for mice.

giffy

------------------
GiffsFarm


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## MN Mom (May 19, 2003)

I have 2 of the 5 gallon pail traps set up right now. 5 spring mouse traps and a live trap. All set with peanut butter, cheese or butter and have only caught 2. The walls are alive at night. I am starting to like the bats in the summer - they at least do some good.

Jon


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## Ken Scharabok (May 11, 2002)

Personally I prefer raw bacon over peanut butter at a mouse/rat. On the can idea, put some holes in the can and then put say two strips of raw bacon in the can - after smearing it well with bacon fat.

I also prefer the rat poison baits to traps.


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## foxtrapper (Dec 23, 2003)

No. Even soaking wet it wouldn't do anything to them. You can try it yourself to see what I mean, wet your hands and grasp the posts of a car battery. Nothing happens. You and a mouse both have too much internal resistance to get any appreciable current flow.


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## Magickhart (Jul 24, 2006)

Great idea Cabin Fever!
We have a barn with some pesky mice. I had seen one mouse running on a rafter then jump into the hay up in the hayloft after DH was hammering against one of the stalls. We have 5 cats and any poison is out of the question. I want to try your method, but there is one problemâ¦ it gets below freezing and water wont work here right now. :shrug: Do you think a large plastic barrel with Spray Pam on the sides would work to trap them in there??


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## Cabin Fever (May 10, 2002)

Magichart: Iâm sure your idea would workâ¦.but, the trap that I described will work all winter. Just put some antifreeze in the water so it doesnât freeze (make sure pets donât drink the water tho.)


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## Magickhart (Jul 24, 2006)

I don't trust the cats LOL they get into everything! I'll see if I can find some of the earth friendly antifreeze that wont hurt animals.


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## WisJim (Jan 14, 2004)

We use the 5 gallon pail of antifreeze method that Cabin Fever mentions, but we put a fence of chicken wire around it so that the cats can't get to the antifreeze. Make sort of a cone of 4 ft wide chicken wire to fit over the pail, and it will keep cats etc out but won't bother the mice at all. We do this in the hay loft of the barn and don't even have to check it very often. Just make sure the chicken wire can't get dislodged by cats or dogs.


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## Thoughthound (Oct 13, 2004)

Voltage, whether it be 1 volt or 110 volts, doesn't mean anything alone. It is the amps that matter.

Think of voltage as water volume and amps as water pressure. You can easily stand beneath a waterfall of thousands of gallons, but you could die (albeit slowly) if you are shot in the head with a pressure washer.

A car battery puts out 12 volts but when cranking, sends out 500+ amps, which is very very deadly. (They considered using batteries for the first electric chair.)

Most 110 volt house circuits are 15-30 amps and they can easily kill as well by causing the heart to stop beating.

Electronics makes it possible to take 1 volt and create higher amps for a mouse trap.

Also, a short circuit from a battery is enough to start a fire. Be careful and store loose batteries with tape over the negative pole.


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## GREENCOUNTYPETE (Jul 25, 2006)

Just replace the water with a liquid that wont freeze like used cooking oil 

i once had a gallon of cooking oil in a camping trailer they ate the cap off and dove in had 5 in that gallon

i have had some luck with the plain old traps but that was in the house after all thier food sources where sealed in tubs buckets and cans 

ok this is the theory behind eletocution from the electical engineer 
and no they don't cover spelling in electronics school

if you measure you resestance from finger to finger it will be very high and varies between around around 8 and 30 meg ohms depending on how dry your skin is excetra
so to over come this very high resistance you need voltage 
voltage is the potential and obviosly a 12 volt batery is 12 volts 
but what deep cycle batteries do have is amprage 
so with a transformer you can change current into voltage 
this is how electric fence units work very high voltage to get though the tuff hide of lage animals but because it is realy the current measured in amps that kill they are very low current it technicaly only takes a mili amp to kill but this would have to be placed very near the heart 

I am here to tell you i have taken many hits from 120 volt 60 hz AC curcuits 
and i am still alive 

so i saw one guy metion his zapper used 1.5 volt bateries 

so does a cattle prod doesent make it hurt any less 
they use a thansformer and ocilator to deliver a high voltage very low current 
shock just increase the amprage some and you have a device that can kill you and mice 

so the answer to your 12 volt battery is not without a tranformer an ocilator and a delivery method 

i would try oil in the 5 galon trap before i spent the time reseaching and building to make my own zap trap or if you have a bug zapper with some modifications you would have it 

just don't kill your self trying it .


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

If you put enough salt in the water it wont freeze


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## Cabin Fever (May 10, 2002)

Bearfootfarm said:


> If you put enough salt in the water it wont freeze


Putting enough whiskey in it and it wonât freeze either. Of course, you might find the olâ man laying out there all passed out.


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## Magickhart (Jul 24, 2006)

LOL! You guys are great! I love this forum! Whoot!


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## Ozarkguy (Aug 13, 2003)

.

Here's how to make one of those bucket traps Cabin Fever was talking about: EEK! There's a Mouse in the House! 

gotta love those hills.....

Ozarkguy

.


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## Pony (Jan 6, 2003)

I keep thinking of a short ditty DH memorized during his undergrad days: "It's volts that jolts, but mils that kills."

I think the bucket idea is the best way to go. Thanks be to God I don't have to deal with that at this point in time, but I may with all the spoiled hay and straw I have stored in the garden this year! (Remembering squishing those mouselings from the compost pile -- shudder!)

Oh,well, it's all part of the circle of stuff...

Good luck gettin' those mice!

Pony!


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## Mr.Hoppes (Sep 30, 2006)

Magickhart said:


> Great idea Cabin Fever!
> We have a barn with some pesky mice. I had seen one mouse running on a rafter then jump into the hay up in the hayloft after DH was hammering against one of the stalls. We have 5 cats and any poison is out of the question. I want to try your method, but there is one problemâ¦ it gets below freezing and water wont work here right now. :shrug: Do you think a large plastic barrel with Spray Pam on the sides would work to trap them in there??


Just throw a small amount of old antifreeze in the water . If farming equipment is home maintained, save the old fluid for this use..


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## tinknal (May 21, 2004)

Jim-mi said:


> No
> To low of voltage


I have seen songbirds killed by electric fence. Granted it wasn't a 12 volt, but voltage doesn't kill, amperage does. I've seen 12 volt fencers give a pretty good zap.........


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## Jim-mi (May 15, 2002)

"Electric fences" that I'm aware of are in the neighborhood of 50,000 volts and very low current.

Thats a rather substantial difference from 12 vdc.

Due to there size I wouldn't dought that a small bird could be done in by an electric fence . . . ._If_ they were so unfortunate as to bridge the Hot to ground.

Out at the road I have seen hundreds (over the years) of birds sitting on ONE leg of the 7200vac utility transmission line. . . .

Now if a very large wing spanned bird were to touch both of those 7200v lines at ounce . . . .of course -- ZAP.

Enlighten me if I'm wrong but I have never heard of a fence that uses 12 vac or dc only . . .?


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## MN Mom (May 19, 2003)

My thought is to take a 12"X12" square of 1/4 mesh and nail it to a frame made of 1"X1"s. I will then build a upside down L shape out of 1"X1"s. Hook neg to the mesh and run the positive wire up the L and have it hang 2" off the mesh with peanut butter on the end. Hopeing rats or mouse will stand on mesh and reach for peanutbutter and complete the curcuit. 

I do have a old bug zapper out in the barn it the tubes busted out of it. Maybe I will look it over tomorrow.

Jon


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## Jim-mi (May 15, 2002)

Jon, interesting idea.

12vdc wont zap them
But 120vac will
Ever see the old hot dog *cooker* where you plug the 'dog' into those little probes on the unit. 
then you plug it in and the ole dog sizzles.
You have just electrocuted a 'dog'.

LOL . . . . . on the down side if Mr Moussie isn't thrown back by the shock, and he remains in contact with the wires . . . .I'm wondering iffin *fried mouse* might get a wee bit stinky. . . .??

If you try your idea (with 120vac) be damned carefull . . . . . . .and keep us posted on the results . . . .


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## tinknal (May 21, 2004)

Jim-mi said:


> Enlighten me if I'm wrong but I have never heard of a fence that uses 12 vac or dc only . . .?


Yes, they make 12 volt fencers. The fancy ones have a solar charger.


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## MN Mom (May 19, 2003)

I went into full attack last night and started setting every trap I had laying around. Went down into the basement to put out glue traps and decided to crawl behind the furnace. There is a 6" pipe that goes straight to the outside under our deck and it is not screened or louvered in any way. I wonder why I have rodents. Anyways there is steel mesh over the inside of the pipe now. 

Count since last night is 4 (3 normal mice and 1 frankin-mouse (I refuse to admit I have rats in the house)).  

Thanks for all the suggestions.

Jon


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## SmartAZ (Sep 17, 2006)

Hook wires to your 12V battery and touch them to your tongue. Assess the results. (It won't hurt.)


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## Ken Scharabok (May 11, 2002)

Another trick is to save the bottom caps off of soda bottles. Fill them up with rat/mouse poison pellets and put them in nooks and cranies, behind doors, in cabinets, on shelves, etc. They prefer to follow walls.


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## MN Mom (May 19, 2003)

Trying to stay away from poison because of pets (cat and dog) but on second thought they both are kind of worthless so maybe it won't be to big of a loss.

Jon


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## Jim-mi (May 15, 2002)

tinknal . . .yes I'm aware of those solar pannel fence chargers. Thats the only way to go(solar power)
Suggest you look again at those. That 12vdc powers a circuit that makes the 50,000+ or what ever, volts. They do not put 12vdc onto the fence *wire* . . . .but Very high voltage.

I'm not in favor of the poison either because way back when I used it and the damned things crawled off to some inexcessable area (in a wall ?? ) then they putrified and stunk badly for a long time. . . . . .I wouldn't want to go through that again on a bet.

As of this morning I've got two mousies that have miserably failed their swimming test . . . . . aka CF's idea . . . . it works.


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## lilsassafrass (May 13, 2002)

tinknal said:


> Yes, they make 12 volt fencers. The fancy ones have a solar charger.



And yes they used to make direct current fencers .. I have a neighboring family who lost a son back in the fifties from a dc fencer , they are no longer made for obvious reasons , but occasionally you will find them at farm auctions even now ... I have an old one that I got that way , in a box of stuff ...

Paula


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## tinknal (May 21, 2004)

Jim-mi said:


> tinknal . . .yes I'm aware of those solar pannel fence chargers. Thats the only way to go(solar power)
> Suggest you look again at those. That 12vdc powers a circuit that makes the 50,000+ or what ever, volts. They do not put 12vdc onto the fence *wire* . . . .but Very high voltage.
> .


Jimmi, I'm not saying that they will kill mice, I'm just saying that, having experienced the shocking power from them, I'd put them in the same class as a 120 volt fencer.


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## tinknal (May 21, 2004)

SmartAZ said:


> Hook wires to your 12V battery and touch them to your tongue. Assess the results. (It won't hurt.)


Hook wires to a 9 volt smoke detector battery, touch them to your tongue. Assess the results.


Now put that same 9 volt battery in a Taser, touch to your tongue..............I'm sure you get my point.............


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## PyroDon (Jul 30, 2006)

A 12 volt deep cycle has plenty of current to kill even a human the voltage is basicly unimportant . 
look at voltage like a river the more volts the wider and deeper the river
a none moving river isnt very deadly . neither is a million volts at a nanoamp.
Now look at the amperage , this is how fast that voltage river is flowing. 
the more amps the deadlier. 
I amp can kill a human if the timings right. 
fence charges use a transformer and capaictor to store high voltage and discharge it at very low amperage ,these milisecond dischrages are rate in jewles yet another nice little eletrical term. 
the victor eletric trap uses a modified photoflash unit that charges up from the 1.5volt batteries just like your camera flash does . the power is stored in capacitors and dischraged when it mouse completes the circuitthe mouse is being hit instantly with around 600volts at 5 amps ( just a guess depending on the capcitors used ) or somewhere around 500 jewles. Keep in mind to shock a heart attack victim they use under 300 jewles in most cases , if the same is used on a healthy patiant it can stop the heart. 
I wouldnt recommend wetting your hands and grabbing the posts on a car battery


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## Jim-mi (May 15, 2002)

Yes higher dc voltages are deadly.
When I install a PV system with the pannels in series, that 100+ dc voltage must be handled VERY carefully.
A high voltage dc fence is really a bad idea.
I wonder how many critters were put down before they realized there mistake.

Just for kicks I'd like to find a Victor electric trap.

But untill then I'll keep trying to give Mr&Mrs mousie swimming lessions.

No batteries needed . . . . . . . . . . . . .


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