# meat rabbits - 5 lbs @ 10 weeks - do yours make this benchmark?



## cathleenc (Aug 16, 2007)

My first litter will be 10 weeks old tomorrow and it's got me wondering what percentage of meat rabbits hit the 5 lb benchmark.

Do yours? Do all of yours? What benchmarks do you use and what do they mean to you?

As for my kits, only 3 survived. Gave one away to the daughter of my bee mentor as a thank you. Kept 2 - 1 should be exactly 5 lbs tomorrow and the other should be about 4 lbs 10 oz. Mine are NZ Blacks from a breeder pair I bought from the local meat rabbit breeder.

When do you butcher yours? What are the benchmarks you use to signal butchering time?

thanks
Cathy


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## MaggieJ (Feb 6, 2006)

Well, I'm not a measuring kind of person... so I just eyeball them and say, _*yup, they're ready*_ or *nope, let's give them a while longer.*

On natural feed, kits often take much longer to reach butchering size. Your two kits have done well. Last year mine took 16 weeks to get them to that size. Mind you, my buns are mutts, not New Zealands, so comparing them is oranges and apples.

Patches when bred to her son Tao always produces two Angora-furred kits per litter. These fluffies are the biggest and have far the best growth rate. I had one reach 5 pounds in 9 weeks when I was still feeding pellets as well as greens. But here, that is the exception.


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## MariaAZ (Jun 5, 2007)

My rex/zil crosses were 4.75/5 lbs by 13 weeks and I was quite satisfied. By 8 weeks, on a diet of pellets, they were about 3.5 lbs. At 8 weeks I switched them over to a hay/greens/kitchen veggie scrap diet, so I'm thinking I might have been able to shave a bit of time off had I kept them on pellets.


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## SILEIGH (Jul 11, 2007)

i watch the calender and how much feed is going into them 
when i get sick at the thought of how much feed they are inhaling its time!!


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## SquashNut (Sep 25, 2005)

we've set the minimum requirements for our NZW does that they must raise 7 kits and some must be 5 pounds at 10 weeks. 
less than that and they are culled. I hope to become stricter with them as my rabbitry matures. 
The Californian ones are a bit slower and we're a bit lax with one because she helps raise another does kits, that has 12 each time.


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## cathleenc (Aug 16, 2007)

I'm not sure that a litter of 3 is fair to compare to a litter of more.... but I gotta compare what I can. LOL. And (Maggie, please know this is my attempt at healing humor) it must be the goat milk to the doe that gets these kits so fat!

The kits still get all the pellets they want - and a small armload of greens each morn. Of all the pens, the kits are the least likely to eat the greens completely. They nibble - and then poop on them. Kids.

Hmmm, more thoughts. I weaned these kits early (6 weeks) because I rebred the doe at 4 weeks since she looked so plump and only had 3 kits to provide for. Not exactly a standard process that I'll be repeating often.


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## therealshari (Jul 10, 2007)

Way back when I was actually in the rabbit business, both as a grower and a processor, we set "industry standards" for ourselves and our growers.

We accepted rabbits for processing at a minimum weight of 4.75 lbs. Within our own herd, we reached that at 8 weeks on average (across 200 breeding does). We raised NZW/California crosses as well as purebreds of both breeds.

We were the only processor EVER to pay our growers on dressed weight. We had a system for batching each grower's animals and weighed them for payment after slaughter, and chill. We then computed the dressed weight percentage four our own herd and consistently were in the 59-62% dressed carcass range.

Things you'll want to consider as a home grower include how many kits survive to butchering age. How soon do they get there? How much feed does it take for them to get there (don't forget to add in the doe and buck's feed, too)? How much does the carcass weigh in relation to the live weight?

With those figures, you'll know exactly what it cost you to raise a pound of meat. 

By applying those standards across each of your breedings, you'll be able to clearly identify which animals to cull.

Hope this helps,


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## SquashNut (Sep 25, 2005)

I believe the industry standard is still that high. Unfortunately all we could find here are show rabbits and the show breeders don't breed for performance. At least the rabbits I bought don't perform that well.
That is why I am setting my rabitry standards higher for each generation. but I am just now breeding my second generation, so won't see the results for a month or 2.


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## therealshari (Jul 10, 2007)

Here are things to keep in mind while you're building your breeding program. There is only ONE standard (for confirmation), and that is set forth by the ARBA, so first, breed for confirmation.

After that, breed for litter size at at least four weeks. It's great to have a doe drop 10 kits, but if you only have 3 at the end of 4 weeks, you've gained less than if your doe gave you 5 and you still had 5 at 4 weeks.

When you save back future breeding stock, be sure to cull for "personality". You want a calm disposition, a doe who won't trample her litter in a thunderstorm. Spooky does can cause high mortality rates.

As for weaning, four weeks is common amongst commercial rabbitries. It is possible to run a "hot" breeding cycle or re-breeding as early as 2 weeks after kindling, but only if the doe is up to it. I personally found we couldn't go that fast, and were more likely at 3 weeks or so for re-breeding.

You asked about butchering signals... if you have bucks and their testicles are quite visible, then you'll have a roaster rabbit. Same thing with the does, if they come into heat (and you tell by turning them over and looking at their vulva), you'll have a roaster rabbit.

Nothing wrong with roasters, just cook longer and use moist heat.


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## Haggis (Mar 11, 2004)

I'm pretty hard on my does, I breed them back 14 days after kindling, and I'll butcher them at just over a year old (does saved in July for next spring's breeders will be butchered in October the following year).

I keep my to-be-butchered litters together or with litters of the same age and process them just before they are 12 weeks, regardless of weight (they start maturing and fighting at 12 weeks).

The only way I'll keep breeding a doe that consistantly produces less then 6 or 7 kits, is if she is something special, or has some special traits.


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## Pony (Jan 6, 2003)

My method is a combination of MaggieJ's and Sileigh's: I eyeball 'em, and if they look right and/or they're eating like high school football players, they get processed.

We haven't yet weighed our rabbits before and after butchering, though it seems like it's a good idea. Don't know that I'd change much of the way I'm feeding them (a bit of pellets, loads of greens and hay, some oats for the does), as it seems to make for happy, healthy rabbits.

I've been breeding for temperament, too. ETA: Conformation as such isn't that important to me, unless there is an obvious defect that will interfere with the quality of the animal's life, or cut down on production.

I like Haggis' method of culling the does. Doesn't bode well for Rita, but she can't live forever. I like the kits she throws, and her daughter threw equally good kits and did a bang-up job of nesting and nursing. Nick and I were calculating age for Rita, and figure her to be at least 18 months old. 

How long do you folks breed your does if you like their production (and their personalities)?

Pony!


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## cathleenc (Aug 16, 2007)

hmm, Haggis's method of breeding/culling does sounds very much like a laying chicken rotation. But wouldn't that require you to have several adult/soon-to-be adult cages going at all times? Ah, thought it out better - no breeding or litters on premise from Oct-start of litters in the spring (april? do you start breeding at 6 months, Haggis?)

such a change of perspective from what I was settling into... will take some time to process/think it through. but delighted to have new thoughts to make me do some mental logistics!


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## MaggieJ (Feb 6, 2006)

Although most of us consider that we are raising rabbits "for profit" there is a difference between having a viable home rabbitry and a viable commercial venture. What Haggis describes sounds a bit too much like factory farming for me. I would consider it wasteful in the extreme to cull a doe just getting into her stride. 

I am coming up against the whole issue of when to cull a good working doe _for the first time_ since I started with rabbits three years ago. My oldest doe is the one of my original rabbits and she was a year old when I got her. This is the first time that she has not produced an excellent litter of 6-7 kits. But even with three kits, she may have a useful place as a foster mother. 

Shari raises a good point about survival rate in the litters. My does have never lost a kit older than 4 days. And except for one first-time mother that did not care for her litter (culled her) losses are rarely more than one kit per litter, usually a runt or a kit that gets pulled out onto the wire. Reliabiliy is worth a lot and personally I prefer working with rabbits that have a track record and with whose little quirks I am familiar.

I just see no point whatsoever of arbitrarily culling a doe just because she is over a year old. The time to cull is when there is a good reason for it: poor mothering skills, kindling kits that do not thrive, frequent small litters, high mortality among the kits. Just my 2 cents worth.


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## Haggis (Mar 11, 2004)

Weather plays a huge role in my breeding of does. I keep my rabbits in an unheated barn and kits born after October 1st will not survive, nor will those born before April 1st; to feed a fully ground doe for 6 months while she lays about getting fat and more difficult to breed is counter productive, and expensive. I had rather feed and young growing doe who will not be fat and will be at the ready to breed come spring; and too, I have better luck settling younger does. 

In general a doe will not raise her first litter, and a doe who has not bred in many months will likely abandon her first litter of spring as well. Banking on that generalization, I breed does early enough to have had their first litter on or before March 15th, then breed them back three days after kindling. And yes, I do do run my rabbitry like a factory, but my does have to do in 6 months what others in more friendly climates or with heated rabbitries have a year to do.

My rabbits have but one function here; they are meat producers plain and simple. I can get maybe 5 litters out of a doe before the cold weather shuts me down. I had rather keep the great breeding does until they were at least two breeding seasons old, but it doesn't pay for me; the older the does get, the fatter they get, the more they eat, the harder they become to get bred, and the more likely they are to have problems. Other people seem to do just fine keeping does around for a while, but it doesn't work for me, and in the end, everyone must do what is best for them.

By the by, I don't sell meat rabbits, maybe one once and a while if someone wants just one or two for special; my family will eat every rabbit I grow. Some years I'll grown as many as 500 to butchering age (just shy of 12 weeks), and they were all eaten before the next season came 'round.

Again, I butcher at 12 weeks because they start fighting, I don't butcher any younger because they don't gain weight in the freezer, and we are after the meat.


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## SquashNut (Sep 25, 2005)

I've started thinking about doing what Haggis is talking about. However my does breed at 4-5 monthes so I'll be saving replacemnts from later litters in the fall. I am also feeding to 12 weeks. More because I have so much free food this time of the year.
I'm finding that if I pour on the free greens all day and then give them one good healthy portion of pellets at night I am getting the same growth rate as though I fed nothing but pellets.
With prices the way they are I cann't mess around trying to feed fryers out during the winter.


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## Pony (Jan 6, 2003)

I breed throughout the winter, with the rabbits in an outside cage set-up. I use that blue insulation board around the frame of the cage stand when it gets bitterly cold. Even with some subzero temps, all the rabbits did very well over Winter. 

It is less expensive to feed in the Summer, and of course, it's a lot easier to tend rabbits when their water doesn't freeze and you needn't ensure they have sufficient hay/straw to block winds. But overall, I'm pretty pleased with the year around breeding for now.

I can see, Haggis, where you'd prefer not to over-winter rabbits, as I assume it is quite chilly in your part of the country during the snowy season.

Pony!


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## Haggis (Mar 11, 2004)

Here it is not unusual to have sub-zero temps in late October, and most certainly one can count on minus-somethings in early November and on into late March. Winters vary of course, but I have to act on the most likely events, and it most likely that any kit born into October will freeze before it has any chance to grow. I don't make any effort to insulate nest boxes against the cold, I just to make do when the weather is in my favor, or rather, in the does and kits favor.

It is my personal opinion that rabbits are the thriftiest animal to grow on a smallholding; they can thrive on daily cut greens in warm weather, and hay from the manger in winter; they need no imported grains as does poultry, one does not have to brood the kits as one does with chicks, they need no costly fences to keep them from the neighboring paddocks as with cattle, and they are generally not prone to violence in any form (unless one were to count the odd mother rabbit who sees her kits and nest as being off limits to visitors).


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## MaggieJ (Feb 6, 2006)

Haggis, thanks for the expanded information about how and why you raise rabbits the way your do. Climate does play an important role in management techniques. And you are right that each person has to find and do what works for him.

I've never encountered the problems with does getting fat over the winter, with 12 week old kits beginning to fight or with does abandoning the first litters of the spring. I have one doe that is a bit hard to breed, sometimes, but once bred she raises her 8 - 9 kits well, so she's worth the minor aggravation of a couple of breeding sessions.

I feed a lot of hay in winter, tree branches from willow, apple and maple, carrots at $5/ 50 pound bag, some grain and some dried greens while they last. I also do a small windowsill garden of dandelions, plantain etc. plus grain grass. Hay is only $3 a bale here and yes, I know I am fortunate. I put my does into a floor pen in a room of the goose house over the winter and they get enough exercise there to keep fit. The buck is in a long narrow pen adjoining it and he gets exercise running back and forth on his side. If I began to encounter problems like those you describe, I'd have to rethink my methods, but for the most part they work well for me.


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## SquashNut (Sep 25, 2005)

I think it really is up to what you expect to get from your rabbits. I couldn't be happy with only 1 or 2 litters from a doe per year. 
I've even started butchering any kits that don't grow fast enough at 8 weeks. The rest go between 10 and 11. No reason to keep throwing the feed to them, when some one else is making better use of it. The 8 week old ones still eat OK.
The more I look at Haggis's routine the more I like it.


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## Skip (Mar 13, 2008)

http://www.msstate.edu/dept/poultry/pub1384.htm

From the above website, it states when chosing breeding does their litters should weigh 10 pounds at 4 weeks of age. I have no personal experience but in theory this makes sense to me.


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## Pony (Jan 6, 2003)

Skip said:


> http://www.msstate.edu/dept/poultry/pub1384.htm
> 
> From the above website, it states when choosing breeding does their litters should weigh 10 pounds at 4 weeks of age. I have no personal experience but in theory this makes sense to me.


WOOF! 10 pounds at 4 weeks????

Heck, mine are just barely weaned at that point. Are they talking about Frankenrabbits?

Hmm... waitaminit...

Okay, after re-reading, I see that the TOTAL weight of the ENTIRE litter is 10 pounds. Yes, THAT makes a bit more sense, assuming it's live weight. 

Reading a little further, here's the chart to which Skip referred:
*
"Look at the records of the breeder's rabbitry to see the quality of the stock. Here are a few things you should look for:

1. Average litter size (8 or more)
2. Death rate (not over 5%)
3. Percent conception (90% or better)
4. Weight of litters at 4 weeks (total 10 lb)
5. Average weight of fryer
1. 4-lb at 8 weeks if left with doe
2. 4-lb at 9 weeks if weaned at 4 weeks 
6. Dressing percentage (55-60% including heart, liver and kidneys)
7. Feed to produce a 4-lb fryer (under 15 lb)" *

Pony!


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## MaggieJ (Feb 6, 2006)

SquashNut said:


> I think it really is up to what you expect to get from your rabbits. I couldn't be happy with only 1 or 2 litters from a doe per year.


 I'm not sure if you mean me or not, SquashNut, but it's perfectly true that I only bred mine once last year. And I'm not particularly happy about it because we are nearly out of rabbit meat. But, it had nothing to do with the rabbits' capabilities. It had nothing to do with the rabbits, period.  

I expect to get at least three litters per doe this year, in spite of getting off to a late start because of the rats.



> I've even started butchering any kits that don't grow fast enough at 8 weeks. The rest go between 10 and 11. No reason to keep throwing the feed to them, when some one else is making better use of it. The 8 week old ones still eat OK.


This makes a lot of sense, although it is certainly different from the idea of giving the runts a little more time to make their growth. It particularly makes sense in colder weather when more feed has to be bought.



> The more I look at Haggis's routine the more I like it.


He's given us a lot of food for thought... and it's good to challenge our own thinking now and again. But I still choke at the idea of culling good does just over a year old. From what I've seen with my own rabbits, young does still making their growth eat more than mature does on winter lay-off.


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