# Hate Crime???



## M5farm (Jan 14, 2014)

was this shooting a Hate crime???? 

He executed Christians- based on the reports from eyewitness


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## Laura Zone 5 (Jan 13, 2010)

If a person is singled out because of their race, religion, orientation, sex, etc.....
It's a hate crime.

All murder in my book, is hateful.

I am so sad that this is going to get buried in labels........(hate crime, gun control, etc). 
We, as a society, need to find out WHY.
WHY WHY WHY 
AND what were the signs........
There are always, signs.


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## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

Is that clear? I think he asked everyone their religion before shooting them but I have not seen where he spared anyone because of their religion.


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## mmoetc (Oct 9, 2012)

By the legal definition it likely qualifies, though I don't see what difference it makes. Dead is dead no matter the reason one was shot. If it is deemed as such will it end the mantra, by some, that only minorities gain the "benefit" of hate crime statutes?


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## M5farm (Jan 14, 2014)

mmoetc said:


> By the legal definition it likely qualifies, though I don't see what difference it makes. Dead is dead no matter the reason one was shot. If it is deemed as such will it end the mantra, by some, that only minorities gain the "benefit" of hate crime statutes?


Unfortunately it does make a difference. there are different rules for minorities and majorities when it come to the social and media justice. If there was any other religion singled out and if we find that any of the students killed were anything other than white you will see marching in the streets and pandering by the Big AL and reverend J


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

As we will see as our esteemed posters post, HRC's famous screech will be repeated over and over, "what difference does it make now?"

Reading the news, the answer appears to be that Christians were the target.


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## gapeach (Dec 23, 2011)

According to numbers eye witnesses, he made all of them stand up and say what religion they were. If they said Christian, he shot them in the head. If they said something else he shot them in the arm or leg.

OCT 2 2015, 
*Oregon Shooting: 'Heroic' Veteran Chris Mintz Was Shot 7 Times*

by TRACY CONNOR and F. BRINLEY BRUTON

 *Umpqua student who witnessed shootings: 'We were all in panic mode'* 3:08
An Army veteran was shot seven times while trying to save other students duringthe deadly Oregon community college rampage, according to his aunt.
Chris Mintz "tried to protect some people," his aunt Sheila Brown told NBC News in a telephone interview. "We were told he did heroic things to protect some people."
She said that Mintz was shot seven times and had been in surgery since the shooting that left 10 dead, including the gunman.

Chris Mintz was wounded in a shooting at a college in Oregon. Courtesy of Sheila Brown
Originally from Randleman, North Carolina, Mintz served about 10 years in the Army. He had just started college, Brown said. He was shot in the back, abdomen and hands, and had two broken legs, she added.
"We're not sure how his legs got broken," she said. "He was on the wrestling team and and he's done cage-fighting so it does not surprise me that he would act heroically."
"It was a great, great shock ... We've all been sitting on pins and needles and praying very hard," Brown said, adding Mintz was "an extremely good guy."
At least 10 people were killed and seven others injured when a gunman who demanded to know his victims' religions opened fire Thursday at Umpqua Community College.
http://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/oregon-college-shooting/oregon-shooting-heroic-veteran-chris-mintz-was-shot-7-times-n437291


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## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

"*She told her family that he told his victims to stand up and declare their religion, before telling them: &#8216;Good, because you&#8217;re a Christian, you&#8217;re going to see God in just about one second*.&#8217;

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...dent-survived-playing-dead.html#ixzz3nPmZh4iX 
Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook"

*If this is true. He did not kill them because of their religion.*


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## gapeach (Dec 23, 2011)

painterswife said:


> "*She told her family that he told his victims to stand up and declare their religion, before telling them: âGood, because youâre a Christian, youâre going to see God in just about one second*.â
> 
> Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...dent-survived-playing-dead.html#ixzz3nPmZh4iX
> Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook"
> ...


How not?????

If they were Christians they got shot in the head. If they weren't, according to the witnesses, he shot them in the arm or leg.


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

painterswife said:


> Is that clear? I think he asked everyone their religion before shooting them but I have not seen where he spared anyone because of their religion.


I heard a report that said he was shooting Christians in the head and others in the legs, but that doesn't mean it's true. 

I heard one eyewitness say the shooter asked one person, and when they said "Christian", he *supposedly* said "Good, you're going to meet God in about 1 second" and then killed them


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## mmoetc (Oct 9, 2012)

M5farm said:


> Unfortunately it does make a difference. there are different rules for minorities and majorities when it come to the social and media justice. If there was any other religion singled out and if we find that any of the students killed were anything other than white you will see marching in the streets and pandering by the Big AL and reverend J


And no matter what they had to say in your hypothetical scenario my stance would be the same. Hate crime statutes serve no good purpose from what I can see. I've never seen one case where the fact that a bad act might be prosecuted as a hate crime served as any deterent to the perpetrator.


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## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

I have yet to see a report that he was not killing others than Christians but shooting them only in the legs. Links anyone?

Okay, I found a story that says that.

Please note, I and you do not have all the information yet. If he did shoot them based on their religion it is a hate crime.


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## gapeach (Dec 23, 2011)

NYT:

Law enforcement officials Thursday night identified the gunman as Chris Harper Mercer, and said he had three weapons, at least one of them a long gun and the other ones handguns. It was not clear whether he fired them all. The officials said the man lived in the Roseburg area.

They said one witness told them that he asked about peopleâs religions before he began firing. âHe appears to be an angry young man who was very filled with hate,â one law enforcement official said. Investigators are poring over what one official described as âhatefulâ writings by Mr. Mercer. The F.B.I. has dispatched dozens of agents to assist in the investigation.

Kortney Moore, 18, from Rogue River, told the Roseburg newspaper, The News-Review, that the gunman had asked people to stand up and state their religion and then started firing. She said she saw her teacher shot in the head, adding that she herself was on the floor with people who had been shot.
http://www.nytimes.com/2015/10/02/u...e-region&region=top-news&WT.nav=top-news&_r=0

More at link.....


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

Prosecution as a hate crime is a fabricated farce meant to satisfy the PC crazed. 

As it stands, this apears to qualify as a hate crime. I heard that Franklin Graham is orginizing white Christian thugs to organize protests at community colleges across America. Further 0bama is calling for Christians everywhere to calm down and not to loot their communities and further alienate themselves. It is truly a powder keg moment. 

I would ask we say a prayer for the dead and their families but I might make myself a target.


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## Laura Zone 5 (Jan 13, 2010)

This is a story, to watch.

What will the reaction be, if indeed, the shooter only murdered Professed Christians, and maimed those of different religions.
I want to see what the Christian community does if this is the case.

We will NEVER get all the information, that is unfortunate.
I know this shooter SHOWED SIGNS.
Hate does not hide well........


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## M5farm (Jan 14, 2014)

mmoetc said:


> And no matter what they had to say in your hypothetical scenario my stance would be the same. Hate crime statutes serve no good purpose from what I can see. I've never seen one case where the fact that a bad act might be prosecuted as a hate crime served as any deterent to the perpetrator.



I agree again. I didn't coin the term or law. I think its just a sensationalizing of race / religion. If we look at murder the murderer has to have hate in his heart to do the act. therefore it is always a hate crime no mater the victims.


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## Evons hubby (Oct 3, 2005)

Hate crimes carry harsher penalties than regular crimes, don't think this nut cares about that.


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## M5farm (Jan 14, 2014)

Yvonne's hubby said:


> Hate crimes carry harsher penalties than regular crimes, don't think this nut cares about that.


The penalty for murder should be a death and Most will agree. we will probably disagree on the how and public display of it but if we as a country had public hangings it would deter some but not all.


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

mmoetc said:


> And no matter what they had to say in your hypothetical scenario my stance would be the same. Hate crime statutes serve no good purpose from what I can see. I've never seen one case where the fact that a bad act might be prosecuted as a hate crime served as any deterent to the perpetrator.


Laws are seldom "deterrents" but "hate crime" allows for harsher penalties, and more time in prison deters them as long as they are locked up


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## MoonRiver (Sep 2, 2007)

What flag can we ban to make sure this doesn't happen again?


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## M5farm (Jan 14, 2014)

ban FACE BOOK , TWITTER and The like.


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## gapeach (Dec 23, 2011)

His internet ties will probably be the key to what was really going on in his mind. The FBI will find out if he has had contact with the IRA, ISIS, and other hate and terror organizations.


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## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

*************


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## M5farm (Jan 14, 2014)

gapeach said:


> His internet ties will probably be the key to what was really going on in his mind. The FBI will find out if he has had contact with the IRA, ISIS, and other hate and terror organizations.


true, but if he did not have the internet his mind would be filled with useful information and possibly some morals


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## Farmerga (May 6, 2010)

I don't support "hate crime" laws as they smack of unequal treatment under the law.


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## nchobbyfarm (Apr 10, 2011)

All crimes are hate crimes. Lets just punish all criminals to the max so that the punishment is actually a deterrent to all crimes. To bad this POS got off easy with a quick death.


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## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

MoonRiver said:


> What flag can we ban to make sure this doesn't happen again?


What flag was banned?


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## TripleD (Feb 12, 2011)

Irish Pixie said:


> What flag was banned?


No flag was banned. The flag that was removed from the State House is the same one you said you hated.


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## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

TripleD said:


> No flag was banned. The flag that was removed from the State House is the same one you said you hated.


Did I say I hated a flag? Can you point it out please?

Yup, there was a flag that was removed from government buildings and public owned areas. I believe that only the American and State flags are allowed.


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## MoonRiver (Sep 2, 2007)

Irish Pixie said:


> What flag was banned?


If you want to be petty and play the semantics game, I will be happy to return the favor on all of your posts. You know exactly what I meant.


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## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

MoonRiver said:


> If you want to be petty and play the semantics game, I will be happy to return the favor on all of your posts. You know exactly what I meant.


Simply pointing out the "for effect" rhetoric. The confederate flag was never banned. It was removed from places where it never should have been.


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## M5farm (Jan 14, 2014)

Irish Pixie said:


> That will never ever happen. I don't believe in god, definitely don't believe the bible, and I'm not a fan of the confederate flag. I do like guns tho.


not a fan - Hate . is it the same NO. but it also could be construed as hate if the same logic was applied to that phrase as it was to the things I have said. if were splitting hairs.


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## arabian knight (Dec 19, 2005)

Thats Being Banned~!


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## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

M5farm said:


> not a fan - Hate . is it the same NO. but it also could be construed as hate if the same logic was applied to that phrase as it was to the things I have said. if were splitting hairs.


Nope. Hate and "not a fan" aren't even close.


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## Darren (May 10, 2002)

Am I wrong in thinking that the perpetrators have all been borderline with regard to their integration into society and that their behavior before hand should have called into question their mental status?


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## M5farm (Jan 14, 2014)

Irish Pixie said:


> Nope. Hate and "not a fan" aren't even close.


very true. BUT because Im not a fan of "muslims" (radical muslims to be politically correct and use proper engrish" I hate them according to the other thread. But you see I have a super power called common sense and I actually know what ya mean. I merely making a point that the same rules don't apply to everyone.


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## TripleD (Feb 12, 2011)

Irish Pixie said:


> Did I say I hated a flag? Can you point it out please?
> 
> Yup, there was a flag that was removed from government buildings and public owned areas. I believe that only the American and State flags are allowed.


I stand corrected IP. You stated you did not like the flag something about it representing an ugly time in history. 6/24/15


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## Laura Zone 5 (Jan 13, 2010)

I have met "non-Believers" that are more 'moral' than those who proclaim Christ as Lord.
Eternal destination is not determined by moral; morals 'can' be a reflection of eternal destination.
If I am incorrect, please, correct me, but it is my limited knowledge of buddism that says those who practice this religion are some of the most 'moral' folks out there.....

I absolutely believe in "Garbage in Garbage out".
That's why when I was in school "book banning" was a big deal.
Books, Classics, that had "immoral" characters, language, etc, were banned for fear that the kids reading it would 'lose their moral compass'.

There is enough GARBAGE on the shelves at the grocery store, library, news stands, that if the internet and all social media were gone.........the garbage is still there.
It's just not INSTANT in your face 24/7.
You have to put forth effort to put the GARBAGE in.

I believe what you feed your mind, feeds your heart, then your soul reflects in your words, actions and being.


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## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

Laura Zone 10 said:


> I have met "non-Believers" that are more 'moral' than those who proclaim Christ as Lord.
> Eternal destination is not determined by moral; morals 'can' be a reflection of eternal destination.
> If I am incorrect, please, correct me, but it is my limited knowledge of buddism that says those who practice this religion are some of the most 'moral' folks out there.....
> 
> .


My grandparents were buddhist. Most moral people I knew and I had Christian grandparents as well. That is taking them as individuals. 

I have to add as well that the buddhist grandparents ( Bachchan and Geechan) came into my life in elementary school. I saw them as the most giving and selfless people I ever knew or have come to know.


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## gapeach (Dec 23, 2011)

Laura Zone 10 said:


> I have met "non-Believers" that are more 'moral' than those who proclaim Christ as Lord.
> Eternal destination is not determined by moral; morals 'can' be a reflection of eternal destination.
> If I am incorrect, please, correct me, but it is my limited knowledge of buddism that says those who practice this religion are some of the most 'moral' folks out there.....


Is Hindu and Buddist the same? I think they are. Last Sunday night something very sad happened at our closest beach. There was a religious Hindu ceremony that took place out in the water after the lifeguards were off duty. 
They did not know about the huge sandbar at low tide. It looks like part of the beach. They were way out and when the tide starts coming in there is a bad undertow which took 3 of them out and drowned them. Others were able to get in safely. Tragic for the people who drowned. It took 3 days to find one of the bodies.


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## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

gapeach said:


> Is Hindu and Buddist the same? I think they are. Last Sunday night something very sad happened at our closest beach. There was a religious Hindu ceremony that took place out in the water after the lifeguards were off duty.
> They did not know about the huge sandbar at low tide. It looks like part of the beach. They were way out and when the tide starts coming in there is a bad undertow which took 3 of them out and drowned them. Others were able to get in safely. Tragic for the people who drowned. It took 3 days to find one of the bodies.


No not the same thing.


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## 7thswan (Nov 18, 2008)

Im hearing right now the Sheriff in the co. of the murders does not want the name published,of the shooter.


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## kasilofhome (Feb 10, 2005)

Irish Pixie said:


> Simply pointing out the "for effect" rhetoric. The confederate flag was never banned. It was removed from places where it never should have been.


Wal-Mart, Amazon toy replicates of general Lee..


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## kasilofhome (Feb 10, 2005)

March for clm


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## wr (Aug 10, 2003)

7thswan said:


> Im hearing right now the Sheriff in the co. of the murders does not want the name published,of the shooter.


I heard the same on our news and I actually laughed out loud because the news reporter said something like, 'Sheriff XYZ has indicated that he does not want the shooter's name, sources indicate to be Chris Harper Mercer publicly disclosed.'

I do agree that turning these killer's names into household words has created a lot of problems when you read manifestos that cite other mass murderers.


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## 7thswan (Nov 18, 2008)

wr said:


> I heard the same on our news and I actually laughed out loud because the news reporter said something like, 'Sheriff XYZ has indicated that he does not want the shooter's name, sources indicate to be Chris Harper Mercer publicly disclosed.'
> 
> I do agree that turning these killer's names into household words has created a lot of problems when you read manifestos that cite other mass murderers.


From what I heard on the radio, they mentioned he "idolized" some other specific mass murders.


I've been in a news/tv/cell phone free zone since before this shooting-it's amazing how much info. I did NOT hear....


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## wr (Aug 10, 2003)

7thswan said:


> From what I heard on the radio, they mentioned he "idolized" some other specific mass murders.
> 
> 
> I've been in a news/tv/cell phone free zone since before this shooting-it's amazing how much info. I did NOT hear....


I heard that as well and I also heard the man that killed the news reporter also cited other mass killers. 

In either case, it's sad that people remember a killer's name but never the victims.


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## 7thswan (Nov 18, 2008)

Well, this is what I found, Christopher Harper Mercer.


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## 7thswan (Nov 18, 2008)

wr said:


> I heard that as well and I also heard the man that killed the news reporter also cited other mass killers.
> 
> In either case, it's sad that people remember a killer's name but never the victims.


I have heard they are not giving the victims names out eather, do you know why?
I've read some posts he made on a "site" warning of the shootings to come,but I don't think I should post link because of language.


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

Is he black?


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## gapeach (Dec 23, 2011)

7thswan said:


> Im hearing right now the Sheriff in the co. of the murders does not want the name published,of the shooter.


It is too late. It must have gotten leaked because his Facebook page was already closed before the Police briefing last night.


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## gapeach (Dec 23, 2011)

HDRider said:


> Is he black?


CBS/AP _October 1, 2015_
*What we know about Oregon shooter Chris Harper Mercer*


An online dating profile that appears to belong to Mercer lists his hobbies and interests as "Internet, killing zombies, movies, music, reading." Under ethnicity, it says "mixed race" and his relationship status says "single -- never married." He was born in England.

more
http://www.cbsnews.com/news/umpqua-community-college-shooting-chris-harper-mercer/


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## 7thswan (Nov 18, 2008)

Uh Oh. I'm reading what everyone is afraid to hear. I'm not going to say it tho. yet.


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## M5farm (Jan 14, 2014)

if Obama had a son it would be just like him..............................................


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## gapeach (Dec 23, 2011)

Swan, a lot of stuff is out there and a lot of it is from the police.

That site you talked about being so ugly language was on here last night.


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## gapeach (Dec 23, 2011)

7thswan said:


> Well, this is what I found, Christopher Harper Mercer.


This guy sympathized with the ex-tv Station shooter in NC. He had stuff on his computer about him.


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## kasilofhome (Feb 10, 2005)

I am still against ever adding a class of crimes as hate crimes... crimes are hateful period.


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## 7thswan (Nov 18, 2008)

M5farm said:


> if Obama had a son it would be just like him..............................................


Ya. I'm reading muslim mother ,he used to go shooting with....


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## 7thswan (Nov 18, 2008)

gapeach said:


> This guy sympathized with the ex-tv Station shooter in NC. He had stuff on his computer about him.


I hear the military is asking/telling our troops to delete their info on the net such as FB ect. There was a military man shot, he went to one of the schools the shooter went to. Retalation?


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## Laura Zone 5 (Jan 13, 2010)

7thswan said:


> Ya. I'm reading muslim mother ,he used to go shooting with....


AND that is 1 piece of the puzzle.

Timothy Mc Vey......who did he shoot w? Why did he do what he did?

The clown that shot up the Denver movie theater IS alive and I say THAT is a place to start.......dig into his life from conception to the day he committed murder......

That is the plumb line.
Then see how many of these other evil monsters have similar / different qualities.....

We have to start, somewhere.


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## 7thswan (Nov 18, 2008)

Laura Zone 10 said:


> AND that is 1 piece of the puzzle.
> 
> Timothy Mc Vey......who did he shoot w? Why did he do what he did?
> 
> ...


Well, to add to that I read his father was Christian, so we have the usual love hate back and forth of a sick mind. It's sad tho, we have to always consider that an attempt to hide the truth, and it seems like all the politicians want to be the first to come out and speek about guns and hide what others are digging for .


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## Laura Zone 5 (Jan 13, 2010)

7thswan said:


> Well, to add to that I read his father was Christian, so we have the usual love hate back and forth of a sick mind. It's sad tho, we have to always consider that an attempt to hide the truth, and it seems like all the politicians want to be the first to come out and speek about guns and hide what others are digging for .


Until I see something that indicates his father was a Believer and Follower of Christ......I'm not buying it.
I did see an interview w/ the father, and seemed very humble, genuinely distraught. His demeanor was that of a gentle man.
That could all be smoke and mirrors too. But body language is hard to fake/control.

It's so much easier to put a pretty bow on a 'troubled / mentally ill gun crazy white kid'. That wraps up and bows up nice and neat.
It's just too dang bad we will never know the Truth.


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## Patchouli (Aug 3, 2011)

7thswan said:


> Ya. I'm reading muslim mother ,he used to go shooting with....


Well of course you are! I bet she is from Kenya and distantly related to Obama too.....


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## Patchouli (Aug 3, 2011)

Laura Zone 10 said:


> Until I see something that indicates his father was a Believer and Follower of Christ......I'm not buying it.
> I did see an interview w/ the father, and seemed very humble, genuinely distraught. His demeanor was that of a gentle man.
> That could all be smoke and mirrors too. But body language is hard to fake/control.
> 
> ...


Well if we are never going to know the truth what is the point of all of these threads?


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## Patchouli (Aug 3, 2011)

Nice to see everyone hitting all the usual suspects. Blacks, Muslims and shadowy government operatives. Who needs the real story when we have inflammatory fun stuff like that?


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## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

I have read he was anti any religion. Can't blame it on his religion when he does not believe in it.


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## kasilofhome (Feb 10, 2005)

Well, religion was a life or death question he demanded answered.... kinda seems relevant to many....


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## gapeach (Dec 23, 2011)

Why are Islam American terrorist attacks not hate crimes?

The United States Department of Defense and federal law enforcement agencies have classified the shootings as an act of workplace violence
The U.S. government declined requests from survivors and family members of the slain to categorize the Fort Hood shooting as an act of terrorism, or motivated by militant Islamic religious convictions.https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2009_Fort_Hood_shooting#cite_note-benghazi-14 In November 2011, a group of survivors and family members filed a lawsuit against the government for negligence in preventing the attack, and to force the government to classify the shootings as terrorism. The Pentagon argued that charging Hasan with terrorism was not possible within the military justice system and that such action could harm the military prosecutors' ability to sustain a guilty verdict against Hasan.

But yet Americans can be charged with hate crimes against Muslims.

USA 
* Woman charged in Fort Hood-related hate crime: Pulling a headscarf *

* An Illinois woman is charged with a hate crime for berating a Muslim woman about the Fort Hood shooting and then pulling at her headscarf. The charge could lead to three years in prison: justice or prosecutorial overkill?
*

* By Patrik Jonsson, Staff writer of The Christian Science Monitor November 20, 2009 *



Atlanta â In the days after the Ft. Hood shooting, mosques around the country bolstered their security in anticipation of a backlash from Americans angry about a Muslim man alleged to have killed American soldiers on their own turf.


"Attacking our headscarf is essentially trampling on the pride that we hold so dear," Chicago CAIR's Amina Sharif told Medill Reports. "An attack on the hijab is an attack on dignity and faith of God."


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

painterswife said:


> I have read he was anti any religion. Can't blame it on his religion when he does not believe in it.


He claimed he was "spiritual".


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## wr (Aug 10, 2003)

gapeach said:


> Why are Islam American terrorist attacks not hate crimes?
> 
> The United States Department of Defense and federal law enforcement agencies have classified the shootings as an act of workplace violence
> The U.S. government declined requests from survivors and family members of the slain to categorize the Fort Hood shooting as an act of terrorism, or motivated by militant Islamic religious convictions.https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2009_Fort_Hood_shooting#cite_note-benghazi-14 In November 2011, a group of survivors and family members filed a lawsuit against the government for negligence in preventing the attack, and to force the government to classify the shootings as terrorism. The Pentagon argued that charging Hasan with terrorism was not possible within the military justice system and that such action could harm the military prosecutors' ability to sustain a guilty verdict against Hasan.
> ...


While witnesses have indicated that people were singled out because of their faith, I haven't heard one of them mention the shooter praising Allah so I'm reluctant to accept that as fact at this point.


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## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

HDRider said:


> He claimed he was "spiritual".


But anti religion.


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

painterswife said:


> But anti religion.


But, spiritual.


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## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

HDRider said:


> But, spiritual.


So what are you trying to convey?


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## kasilofhome (Feb 10, 2005)

religion mattered to him when he aimed.


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## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

kasilofhome said:


> religion mattered to him when he aimed.


Yes, it seems so, because he was anti religion.


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## Laura Zone 5 (Jan 13, 2010)

IF he only murdered Buddhist, but maimed Christians, Mulims, Jews and Hindi's does that make him still 'anti religion' OR does that make him a "hater of Buddhist" and a hate of a PARTICULAR religion?


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## kasilofhome (Feb 10, 2005)

So we agree that it was religious hate... it wasn't love when he squeezed the trigger... sighting them ...aimed and killed.


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## Laura Zone 5 (Jan 13, 2010)

Patchouli said:


> Well if we are never going to know the truth what is the point of all of these threads?


To remind ourselves, and to find others who want truth.
To remind ourselves, and to find others who still give a carp about human kind.
To remind ourselves, and to find others who want to find out as much as we can so that maybe we can find a way to make it stop.
To remind ourselves, and to find others who still find this shocking, awful, sickening; and not normal.

Because there's something hard wired into human beings who have a soul that being 'together' thru things like this, is better than being alone.


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## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

kasilofhome said:


> So we agree that it was religious hate... it wasn't love when he squeezed the trigger... sighting them ...aimed and killed.


I agree. It appears to be with the information we have.

I however think that may be only part of this. If the reports are correct he has metal problems that contributed.


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## gapeach (Dec 23, 2011)

*Oregon shooter said to have singled out Christians for killing in âhorrific act of cowardiceâ*



By Eli Saslow, Sarah Kaplan and Joseph Hoyt October 2 at 12:05 PM 

ROSEBURG, Ore. âInvestigators including cyber-experts and hate crime specialists peered Friday into the life of a 26-year-old gunman whose massacre across an Oregon campus may have been driven by religious rage and a fascination with the twisted notoriety of high-profile killers.

What is known so far about the attacker â identified by a U.S. law enforcement official as Chris Harper Mercer â appear only as loose strands that suggested an interest in firearms and the infamy gained by mass shooters.

Witnesses also said he seemed to seek specific revenge against Christians, and police examined Web posts that hinted of wider antipathy toward organized faith.

But authorities still struggled to build a clearer picture at what drove the California-raised Mercer to stalk rural Umpqua Community College â armed with three pistols and a semiautomatic rifle â and methodically pick off students and professors Thursday on the fourth day of the fall semester.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...ans-for-killing-in-horrific-act-of-cowardice/

There is a collage of pictures here with 2 of the shooter.


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## gapeach (Dec 23, 2011)

wr said:


> While witnesses have indicated that people were singled out because of their faith, I haven't heard one of them mention the shooter praising Allah so I'm reluctant to accept that as fact at this point.


The Fort Hood Shooter, Hasan did.

"Allahu Akbar": Ft. Hood General Says Hasan Shouted "God Is Great!" Before Shooting (VIDEO)
AP/The Huffington Post
Posted: 03/18/2010
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/11/06/robert-cone-nidal-malik-h_n_348145.html


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

painterswife said:


> Yes, it seems so, because he was anti religion.


He was spiritual..


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## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

HDRider said:


> He was spiritual..


Why do you keep repeating that? Did you think I denied that?


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## Laura Zone 5 (Jan 13, 2010)

I love the spin.

First hand, multiple witnesses said that he singled out Christians for murder.

Now the news says "he wasn't singling anyone out, he just hates everyone".

Such a sack of fertilizer.

Insert the word "Muslim, Gay, Lesbian, Homosexual, Transgender, Bisexual, Black"........and the world goes on it's ear.
But single out Christians?
"Oh he hates everyone"
I call bull snot.
Sickening.


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## Patchouli (Aug 3, 2011)

painterswife said:


> Why do you keep repeating that? Did you think I denied that?


There is no valid reason for his responses that I can see.


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## Patchouli (Aug 3, 2011)

Laura Zone 10 said:


> I love the spin.
> 
> First hand, multiple witnesses said that he singled out Christians for murder.
> 
> ...



You do know you are winding yourself up over hearsay at best right? We don't know anything at all about the shooter so far except a few bits and pieces they have cobbled together from his internet postings. I know the Christian Martyr idea is catnip for some but can we at least make sure he was trying to take out Christians specifically before you attack the media for trying to spin this against your preferred theory?


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## gapeach (Dec 23, 2011)

But what if he had shot up a mosque? Would it be Muslim Martyrdom?

I don't doubt one bit what the FBI and ATF are telling us and it does not seem that they seem to be holding much back either.


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## Laura Zone 5 (Jan 13, 2010)

Patchouli said:


> You do know you are winding yourself up over hearsay at best right? We don't know anything at all about the shooter so far except a few bits and pieces they have cobbled together from his internet postings. I know the Christian Martyr idea is catnip for some but can we at least make sure he was trying to take out Christians specifically before you attack the media for trying to spin this against your preferred theory?


Ok.
I am not wound up.....think more along the lines of deep eye rolling.

Yes, a lot of hearsay. AND a lot of witnesses, one of which was shot, and survived when she answered her religion was Christian.

Correct we do not know a lot about the shooter, because they are still digging into what he was into. MY 'deep eye rolling' is because there are multiple witnesses, one who is in the hospital with a near fatal wound, who heard him say "what is your religion" and when Christian was the answer, they were murdered. All other answers, were non life threatening wounds.
Witnesses.
Live people who heard him say it.

The rest of your comment, is rude. 
Human beings were killed at the hands of an evil monster.
Human beings were injured (not christians) at the hands of an evil monster.
I am so thankful for those who were shot, and survived, regaurdless of their religious choice.
They are all HUMAN beings.

Preferred theory. 
Well, theory means=a proposed explanation whose status is still conjectural and subject to experimentation, in contrast to well-established propositions that are regarded as reporting matters of actual fact.

There are alive, human beings with working brains and ears that heard him say what he said.

I am in deep eye rolling mode because the media is ready to ban a flag because a white kid murdered innocent black folks........but some how when a mixed race kid mows down white kids because he asked "what relgion are you" and when Christian was the answer, he killed them....."oh he just hates everyone, he has mental illness".
HOG WASH

Why is this hard to see?


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## Patchouli (Aug 3, 2011)

gapeach said:


> But what if he had shot up a mosque? Would it be Muslim Martyrdom?
> 
> I don't doubt one bit what the FBI and ATF are telling us and it does not seem that they seem to be holding much back either.


Your analogy doesn't really work.  If he had shot up a Church there would be no question here. Since he went to a school and so far the 2 stories claiming he weeded people out by religion are second or third hand I would say we still don't know anything for sure. 

I haven't seen anything on his religious beliefs from the FBI other than he hated all organized religion. Did any of the students there claim Judaism or Islam or any other organized religion?


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## Jim Bunton (Mar 16, 2004)

M5farm said:


> The penalty for murder should be a death and Most will agree. we will probably disagree on the how and public display of it but if we as a country had public hangings it would deter some but not all.


Not all murders deserve the death penalty. Even if I thought they did until our system becomes perfect I would still be opposed to the death penalty in all murder cases. Too many innocent people have been convicted of murder and later released when new evidence has cleared them. Posthumously being cleared just wouldn't be the same.

Jim


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## Evons hubby (Oct 3, 2005)

Listening to the news last night and one of the talking heads made the comment that God was certainly with those who had escaped death.... I thought about that a few seconds and realized those who were killed are now with God too.


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## Tiempo (May 22, 2008)

Patchouli said:


> Your analogy doesn't really work.  If he had shot up a Church there would be no question here. Since he went to a school and so far the 2 stories claiming he weeded people out by religion are second or third hand I would say we still don't know anything for sure.
> 
> I haven't seen anything on his religious beliefs from the FBI other than he hated all organized religion. Did any of the students there claim Judaism or Islam or any other organized religion?


For me it raises the question, if he was indeed feeling so murderous towards Christians specifically, then why did he attack a community college and not a church?

ETA But it seems clear that he hated organized religion in general. I suppose trying to rationalize the actions of an irrational mind is futile.


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## where I want to (Oct 28, 2008)

Patchouli said:


> Your analogy doesn't really work.  If he had shot up a Church there would be no question here. Since he went to a school and so far the 2 stories claiming he weeded people out by religion are second or third hand I would say we still don't know anything for sure.
> 
> I haven't seen anything on his religious beliefs from the FBI other than he hated all organized religion. Did any of the students there claim Judaism or Islam or any other organized religion?


The first one was in the classroom in which he started shooting.


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## gapeach (Dec 23, 2011)

*Chris Harper-Mercer: Everything we know about the Oregon school gunman on Saturday
Shooter encouraged followers to watch grisly images online and posted that the "more people you kill, the more you're in the limelight*
By Rob Crilly, New York and Tom Morgan2:38PM BST 03 Oct 2015
excerpt:
British father of college gunman speaks of family's 'devastating day' as IRA-supporting son murders 10 people 
He left behind a complex web of online identities which offer a possible insight into his personality â or at least a glimpse of the way he wanted to present himself to the world.
He maintained a myspace page, on which he posted a photograph of himself holding what appears to be a rifle, alongside images of masked IRA gunmen.
Obsession with Nazis
He offered the fullest description of himself on an online dating profile, saying he was âshy at first, but warm up quickly, better in small groups". He also said he was not religious but was âspiritualâ and described his political views as conservative.
His username on the dating site Spiritual Passions was ironcross45 â a handle often used by far-Right sympathisers in reference to the German military symbol reintroduced by the Nazis.
He was also linked, via the username Lithium_Love, to a video upload site, where he also posted about Vester Flanagan, the former TV reporter who shot dead two former colleagues live on air.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/wor...out-the-Oregon-school-gunman-on-Saturday.html

There is more that is coming out about him that goes into another direction and very disturbing but I'm not going to post it until I know that it is true.


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## where I want to (Oct 28, 2008)

Tiempo said:


> For me it raises the question, if he was indeed feeling so murderous towards Christians specifically, then why did he attack a community college and not a church?
> 
> ETA But it seems clear that he hated organized religion in general. I suppose trying to rationalize the actions of an irrational act is futile.


OK- I suppose this is going to cause the usual pile on but here it goes anyway.

Even the Charleston church shooter was trying for a local college if I remember correctly but couldn't get through so tried the church.

Schools are a focus of such things. Because they are places of disaffection for the young males who do such things. Simply age and experience places them there- it's what they know. And what gets them to the source they think is the power and control they crave over those who are simply in the place to have offended them.

Schools are places where children are forced together and test themselves out. And the modern litany is that these children are due acceptance as a right, no matter what ideas they come up with. Yet the schools can not control human behavior, which persists in making a mockery of universal acceptance.

By nature, adolescents are awkward and make mistakes. Yet they also resist being told they are mistaken. Add that to a school career of fantasy rules, and who can wonder that internally created failures are assumed to be caused by others. Failure is just as common as it was twenty years ago, but kids are trained to unhesitantly choose not to look at their own fault but instead blame others for failing to make their problems go away.

Most people can get their heads into reality when they meet it outside of school. But some never do.


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## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

My opinion is he likely targeted a school because most young people with mental and relationship problems target those most like themselves as a form of revenge.


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## Patchouli (Aug 3, 2011)

Tiempo said:


> For me it raises the question, if he was indeed feeling so murderous towards Christians specifically, then why did he attack a community college and not a church?
> 
> ETA But it seems clear that he hated organized religion in general. I suppose trying to rationalize the actions of an irrational act is futile.


I have a feeling his discussions on the internet and especially the 4chan forum would probably shine a light on that choice. But ultimately his goal appears to be going out in a blaze of glory and a school was his best chance to do that. Sorting people by religion may have meant nothing other than another notch on the fame belt. I mean think about it this way: if you goal is to get people to talk about you for as long as possible making your massacre as bizarre as possible and hitting as many tropes as possible is a good way to do it right?


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

Tiempo said:


> For me it raises the question, if he was indeed feeling so murderous towards Christians specifically, then why did he attack a community college and not a church?
> 
> ETA But it seems clear that he hated organized religion in general. I suppose trying to rationalize the actions of an irrational act is futile.


If he came to my church he would have been shot before he got nine others.


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## Tiempo (May 22, 2008)

Patchouli said:


> I have a feeling his discussions on the internet and especially the 4chan forum would probably shine a light on that choice. But ultimately his goal appears to be going out in a blaze of glory and a school was his best chance to do that. Sorting people by religion may have meant nothing other than another notch on the fame belt. I mean think about it this way: if you goal is to get people to talk about you for as long as possible making your massacre as bizarre as possible and hitting as many tropes as possible is a good way to do it right?


I think you may be right, that he was just trying to push the biggest buttons he could think of to attain 'fame'


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## wr (Aug 10, 2003)

gapeach said:


> The Fort Hood Shooter, Hasan did.
> 
> "Allahu Akbar": Ft. Hood General Says Hasan Shouted "God Is Great!" Before Shooting (VIDEO)
> AP/The Huffington Post
> ...


I'm not disputing the Ft. Hood shooting at all but my comment was directed at the discussion trying to make this current shooting a Muslim act.


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## gapeach (Dec 23, 2011)

I did not see any posts indicating that the shooter was a muslim.


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## Tricky Grama (Oct 7, 2006)

MoonRiver said:


> What flag can we ban to make sure this doesn't happen again?


Post of the week award.


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## M5farm (Jan 14, 2014)

1/2 of his friends on my space were Muslim


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## gapeach (Dec 23, 2011)

M5farm said:


> 1/2 of his friends on my space were Muslim


I saw that!


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## wr (Aug 10, 2003)

M5farm said:


> 1/2 of his friends on my space were Muslim



Confirmed?


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## gapeach (Dec 23, 2011)

It was still on My Space the night of the shootings. I did not copy it but saw it. Now his site is frozen They were his only two friends. Both had Muslim names.


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## Patchouli (Aug 3, 2011)

Tiempo said:


> I think you may be right, that he was just trying to push the biggest buttons he could think of to attain 'fame'


I was just reading an article earlier on it and he made people crawl across the floor, beg for their lives and asked people if they believed in God or were religious. If they were he said good you are about to meet God and shot them. He shot everyone no matter what they said or did so obviously he was on a power trip.


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## M5farm (Jan 14, 2014)

Yes it's been conformed. http://www.bing.com/news/search?q=C...&qpvt=chris+mercer+my+spwce+friends&FORM=EWRE


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## Tricky Grama (Oct 7, 2006)

kasilofhome said:


> Well, religion was a life or death question he demanded answered.... kinda seems relevant to many....


Seems it was relevant in the Charleston massacre...


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## Tricky Grama (Oct 7, 2006)

Patchouli said:


> You do know you are winding yourself up over hearsay at best right? We don't know anything at all about the shooter so far except a few bits and pieces they have cobbled together from his internet postings. I know the Christian Martyr idea is catnip for some but can we at least make sure he was trying to take out Christians specifically before you attack the media for trying to spin this against your preferred theory?


So, you are not willing to believe the victims who were there? The ones who lived, of course. They've all said the same.


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## Tricky Grama (Oct 7, 2006)

Laura Zone 10 said:


> Ok.
> I am not wound up.....think more along the lines of deep eye rolling.
> 
> Yes, a lot of hearsay. AND a lot of witnesses, one of which was shot, and survived when she answered her religion was Christian.
> ...


Post of the day award.


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## 7thswan (Nov 18, 2008)

M5farm said:


> Yes it's been conformed. http://www.bing.com/news/search?q=C...&qpvt=chris+mercer+my+spwce+friends&FORM=EWRE


ya, his only male friend was subosably a radical.http://www.examiner.com/article/christopher-harper-mercer-a-different-perspective


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## Laura Zone 5 (Jan 13, 2010)

Ok........

This kid, was FULL of hate. No, I mean FULL of hate........
THAT kind of hate, oozes out of one's pours.
If you are even a TINY observer of human behavior, you KNOW when someone is consumed w/ hate.

It shows in their face. Their eyes.
It presents itself in their words.......
It shows itself in a persons actions.

They are negative; all the time. About everything.
Their words are anything from 'critical to venomous'.
Tense body language, always on alert ready to go off. 

These hate filled people seek out other hate filled people because they are 'fuel'.

I, personally, and more fearful of a 'hate filled' person than I am just about anyone else......Hate knows no boundaries or labels......it destroys everything, equally.


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## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

M5farm said:


> Yes it's been conformed. http://www.bing.com/news/search?q=C...&qpvt=chris+mercer+my+spwce+friends&FORM=EWRE


What has been confirmed? The title of the article you linked is: Christopher Harper Mercer: _*Possible*_ Terrorist Link Revealed By Social Media

How is that a confirmation by any stretch of the imagination?


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## Patchouli (Aug 3, 2011)

Tricky Grama said:


> So, you are not willing to believe the victims who were there? The ones who lived, of course. They've all said the same.


No they haven't all said the same thing actually.


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## Lisa in WA (Oct 11, 2004)

Laura Zone 10 said:


> Ok........
> 
> This kid, was FULL of hate. No, I mean FULL of hate........
> THAT kind of hate, oozes out of one's pours.
> ...


this seems a little dramatic. Surely hate knows some boundaries. Even Hitler liked some things, like blue-eyed blondes and Disney cartoons.


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## Patchouli (Aug 3, 2011)

M5farm said:


> It is confirmed that 1/2 of his friends on my space were Muslim. I didn't say radical. I used liberal logic in my statement.



That sounds terrible until you see he only had TWO friends! Then it seems like a pretty desperate reach to try and make this all about Muslim terrorists. :yawn:


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

Tricky Grama said:


> So, you are not willing to believe the victims who were there? The ones who lived, of course*. They've all said the same.*


 They didn't "all say the same", and he shot them no matter what they answered

Here's a survivor who says he didn't ask everyone:
http://www.latimes.com/nation/la-na-oregon-shooting-20151004-story.html


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## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

Patchouli said:


> That sounds terrible until you see he only had TWO friends! Then it seems like a pretty desperate reach to try and make this all about Muslim terrorists. :yawn:


Seriously? He has two friends on My Space (is that even a thing anymore?) and one of them is Muslim? That's confirmation? SMH :facepalm:


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## wr (Aug 10, 2003)

I think one of the saddest things to come from social media is the belief that in order to be special or accepted in some way is based on the number of friends one is shown to have and the need for them to be the right kind of friends.


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## Patchouli (Aug 3, 2011)

Irish Pixie said:


> Seriously? He has two friends on My Space (is that even a thing anymore?) and one of them is Muslim? That's confirmation? SMH :facepalm:


I think Myspace died a long time ago. I may still have an account floating around on there from a decade or so ago. 

The funniest thing from that link was this: 



> Even more interesting, is that Mercer only has two friends on the site. *While one is a woman hardly worth taking notice of*, the second one is a man named Mahmoud Ali Ehsani.


Erm why is she hardly worth taking notice of exactly?


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