# normal newborn kid behavior/nursing enough?



## MamaDee (May 10, 2006)

Can someone tell me how a newborn kid acts? We had a buckling born last night about 11 p.m. Today he still acts somewhat sleepy. He can stand and walk, but prefers to lay around. Tonight we came down and he was sort of panting---but it's reeeeallly hot here. He doesn't need water, right? I am concerned b/c I have only seen him nurse twice--and both times I had to intervene and help calm the mom and put him under her. This morning he was just laying around in the corner so I milked the mom and got him to take 6 ounces. This afternoon he took 3 more ounces, but didn't seem to want more. He may be nursing.....but every time I try to put him anywhere near her back end or belly she shift around and walks away from him. 

I can milk her but have to be pretty deliberate about it...if he were more so maybe she would let him, but he's not.

This is our first kid and I have no idea how a kid should act or what the mom might do. She seems interested in him. She cleaned him last night and I got him to nurse before I went to bed. She licks him today and walks around him talking to him. But she is uneasy if he approaches to nurse.

Dee


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## Feral Nature (Feb 21, 2007)

If he got colostrum in him the first day and is nusring now, he is probably just napping like a baby. If he is panting, he may just be too warm, provide shade. If the momma's udder is engorged, and it probably is, restrain her and milk out some of that valuble colostrum into some pint bottles and freeze for emergency use. Her udder won't be so tight and painful and she may be more receptive to it being nursed. Also, make sure the "plugs" are not still the teats. Each orifice will have been protected during the months of pregnancy by a plug that needs to be removed simply by squirting milk out of the teat...then that is it, it is opened for the duration and you won't have to do it again for this kid.

Take the babies temp if you suspect a fever or too much panting. Watch for signs of dehydration, a kid can go down quick. But all babies need to sleep alot. Howeverm he should be playful and in a few days very playfl and running and jumping. He should not be sluggish tommorrow.

If you keep restraining the doe and allowing the baby to nurse, before you know it, they will both understand what is suposed to happen.


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## chamoisee (May 15, 2005)

Is she a first freshener? 

Is her udder very full and firm to the touch?

Have you squirted milk out of both teats? 
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Without knowing more at this time, I woudl put her on the milkign stand several times a day and get him to nurse her. I wouldn't bottle feed him unless he absolutely cannot or will not nurse his dam. To prompt him to start nuzzling around and nursing, put his head near her teat, and then pet his thighs and rump up against the lay of the hair. This will trigger his nursing reflex. 

She may not have nursed a kid before, or perhaps her udder or uterus is sore (nursing makes the uterus have contractions and hurts). If you make him nurse several times a day for two or three days, the situation should resolve itself fairly quickly.


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## Feral Nature (Feb 21, 2007)

I was going to post this on your other baby goat thread, but decided to post it here.

With one kid, you will have to watch that udder. One kid will create a lop-sided udder as the kid will favoutr one side. Milk both sides out evenly, preferably twice a day. Are you going to be using this doe as amilker? If so, go ahead and start putting her up on the milkstand in the evening, milk her out. Eventually, after 2 weeks of age, seperate the baby away from her at night. Milk her in the morning and put the baby with her during the day. The mom can sleep at night and make milk without the little one keeping her up all night. I would wait til you kid is 2 weeks old before I started separating them though. The kid will have pelnty to eat during the day to hold it over night.

If you intend to bottle-feed the kid, they get harder and harder to switch over from teat to bottle as they age. What would be your reason? To sell the kid early? To milk the doe? Just wondering so I could give a better answer.


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## MamaDee (May 10, 2006)

<<<If the momma's udder is engorged, and it probably is, restrain her and milk out some of that valuble colostrum into some pint bottles and freeze for emergency use>>>

Did that. Her udder was lopsided from the one nursing I helped him get about half an hour after birth. When I milk her do I milk her all the way or just to relieve pressure?

<<<Watch for signs of dehydration, a kid can go down quick>>>

What should I look for?


<<<If you keep restraining the doe and allowing the baby to nurse, before you know it, they will both understand what is suposed to happen>>>

O.K. So instead bottle feeding 4 times a day now I need to make sure the kid nurses that much. Do I have someone hold her legs? She seemed to calm down when I pet her and let the kid nurse one time...but now she seems less willing.

<<<Is she a first freshener>>>

Yes, she is. She seems a bit confused by it all. But she is gentle and seems to want to help the baby--just not "down there"!

<<<Is her udder very full and firm to the touch? Have you squirted milk out of both teats?>>>

Not too bad. It was lopsided, but I'm taking care of that with milking to relieve pressure. Yes, I have milked both teats. I milked her twice today--but not all the way out. I have about 2 1/2 pints in the freezer. 


<<<To prompt him to start nuzzling around and nursing, put his head near her teat, and then pet his thighs and rump up against the lay of the hair. This will trigger his nursing reflex>>>

Ah, thanks for that hint. I will try it! 

<<<She may not have nursed a kid before, or perhaps her udder or uterus is sore (nursing makes the uterus have contractions and hurts)>>>

She hasn't. And I didn't think of contractions. I should have, having five kids myself! 

<<<Eventually, after 2 weeks of age, seperate the baby away from her at night. Milk her in the morning and put the baby with her during the day>>>

Why, two weeks of age? Just curious. The plan originally was to bottle feed from the beginning, but we're rethinking the night separation option now--since there's only one kid.

<<<If you intend to bottle-feed the kid, they get harder and harder to switch over from teat to bottle as they age. What would be your reason? To sell the kid early? To milk the doe? Just wondering so I could give a better answer.>>>

Well, originally, we planned to separate from birth. But I was so overwhelmed by it all by myself last night I just couldn't do it. So we thought we'd wait until the colostrum is done. Didn't know how bad it would be to separate them after 4 days or so..... The reason is so we can have all the milk. We have five kids (human kind) and this is our only real milker (or will be). Now we're wondering if we might do the just night separation thing--since there's only one kid (goat kind). We might have enough milk for our family with only one kid nursing. Still thinking on that one. 

I'm just not sure how to tell if he's nursing or not--since I've not seen it since birht (well, and the one time this morning when I helped him) Tonight when I put him under her he didn't seem interested. I was concerned that he wasn't interested b/c he was too weak. Don't know how weak is normal at this point. 

Thanks for your words. It makes me feel a bit better knowing I've at least done some things right. I'll watch the udder and watch him closer tomorrow and do what you guys suggest. I'll let you know how tomorrow goes. Thanks! Still working on those pics! My boys have a piano competition this weekend and we're back and forth to that for three days. Wouldn't you know Lightning picks this weekend to have her baby!

Dee


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## Caprice Acres (Mar 6, 2005)

The reason I like pulling dairy kids at birth is because it doesn't cause the doe emotional harm, so to say. Now, she knows she's supposed to have a kid, but she can't take care of it. If you do decide to pull the kid, no big deal, I'd say go for it... You'll get more milk and avoid udder damage, and it will also cause her to produce more milk than you'd get from a 1x per day milking with her kid left on her. However, try to put the baby somewhere where they can't hear each other. That way the kid will bond to you faster and the doe will get over her baby much quicker. Right now I've got two pulled kids that i got off the dam at a week old because somebody wanted bottle babies. Well, they backed out after I pulled them and I have no place to put them far away from mommy, so they're in the milkroom where mommy can hear them. But she won't nurse them. Everytime she sees them she rushes over, only to smell them and reject them. They're no longer 'hers'. But she persists in worrying over their hollers.

Not to mention with bottle babies, you can get them off your hands at a younger age, which is what I rather like about them.


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## MamaDee (May 10, 2006)

Everytime she sees them she rushes over, only to smell them and reject them. They're no longer 'hers'. But she persists in worrying over their hollers>>>>

I remember reading about that in your post. How long were they off the mama? Do you think it was that or the disbudding smell? 

<<<Not to mention with bottle babies, you can get them off your hands at a younger age, which is what I rather like about them>>>

Yeah, I'm not sure what we're going to do with this little guy. I want to sell him. Hubby wants to butcher. We can't keep him--he's related to all our girls. Just seems weird to eat the first baby!!!!! Guess I better get over that. Wish we'd had a doe so I wouldn't have to face that already.  

Dee


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## MamaDee (May 10, 2006)

This morning I went down and the baby seems better. He was walking around a bit and I even saw him jump a little. Still sits alot, but more active. She must be nursing him. I tried to give her grain and then take him to her and she let him as long as we stood so she couldn't walk (she was in the corner). So he nursed this morning in front of us a few minutes. I tried to give him a bottle right before we left to make sure he got enough and he was NOT interested.

The thing is, whenever we are watching when he walks over to her leg area she walks away from him. So I've still never seen him nurse without our help. He must be though, or he'd be weaker I'd think. I've seen him nurse once right after birth, twice yesterday and once this morning. 

What is the normal kid nursing pattern that's left with mom? Is he only nursing a few times a day (assuming she is letting him) and the rest of the time he "asks" she walks away? Is that normal. Or is the walking away a bad sign?

Dee


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## chamoisee (May 15, 2005)

It sounds like she may have gotten the hang of it! I'd watch them for a few days yet. You can tell if he isn't getting enough milk, his stomach (where the hollows would be on an older goat) will feel flat and empty if he isn't getting anything. 

I prefer to let a first freshener raise her own kids, and to let bucklings nurse if they're going to be butchered. I don't think I could kill and butcher a bottle baby. :Bawling: The doe needs to know how to mother and nurse her kid even if you plan on bottle feeding all the rest she'll have. 

Milking: since he is disadvantaged right now, milk her out almost all the way, not not completely. Leave a few squirts in each side. To relieve the pressure is not enough, her production will be lowered by doing that. As he gets stronger and is seen to be nursing frequently, you can start taking ALL the milk twice a day, and then when he's about a month old, start shutting him away at night and you can take the whole morning milking and let him run with her and nurse the rest of the time.


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## MamaDee (May 10, 2006)

To relieve the pressure is not enough, her production will be lowered by doing that>>>

I should have been clearer on that. That's what I did the first morning on the one bigger side. The other three times I've milker her I milked each side--going until the milk flow started slowing. I didn't massage and bump the way I do my regular milkers....I just milked along until the flow obviously slowed down. Is that what you mean? 

Dee


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## Feral Nature (Feb 21, 2007)

If the baby is urinating and pooping ok, then he is eating. if he is not hollow bellied he is ok. And milk out those engorged teats as they HURT and she won't like him hurting her. Kids nurse numerous times a day but sometimes just a few seconds at a time. Lots of little helpings. Not like a big morning feeding and then a big evening feeding. He will be strong enough to be more demanding about getting the milk from her very soon.


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