# This has to make COVID the most overstated event in recent history



## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

The CDC says that only 6% were killed by COVID-19

For 6% of the deaths, COVID-19 was the only cause mentioned. For deaths with conditions or causes in addition to COVID-19, on average, there were 2.6 additional conditions or causes per death.





__





COVID-19 Provisional Counts - Weekly Updates by Select Demographic and Geographic Characteristics


Tabulated data on provisional COVID-19 deaths by age, sex, race and Hispanic origin, and comorbidities. Also includes an index of state-level and county-level mortality data available for download.




www.cdc.gov


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## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

For *184,353 *dead people and their families and friends Covid is not overstated at all. Those infected, recovered, and have life long complications don't think so either.


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

Irish Pixie said:


> For *184,353 *dead people and their families and friends Covid is not overstated at all. Those infected, recovered, and have life long complications don't think so either.


Covid is listed as the cause of death in a little over 10,000 of those deaths.

You want to perpetuate the myth


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## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

HDRider said:


> Covid is listed as the cause of death in a little over 10,000 of those deaths.
> 
> You want to perpetuate the myth


Those people with comorbidity(s) were living with them until Covid killed them. Why is that so hard to understand? Living without Covid, dead after being infected.

You want to downplay the deaths because of your agenda. 

And this is pointless, you'll never accept that Covid has killed tens of thousands of people and ruined the lives of many more. I will never accept that those lives mean less because the virus has a "low death rate".


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

This has been a scam on a global scale


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## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

HDRider said:


> This has been a scam on a global scale


So you say. And that ends the discussion part of today's program.


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## poppy (Feb 21, 2008)

Irish Pixie said:


> For *184,353 *dead people and their families and friends Covid is not overstated at all. Those infected, recovered, and have life long complications don't think so either.


That is just silly. For the families of the thousands of flu deaths each year, the flu is not overstated either. For the families of the thousands of traffic deaths each year, traffic deaths are not overstated either. The point is, COVID by itself kills very few people and common sense says some of that 9,000 with only COVID as a known illness actually had other unknown serious health issues. Do you realize there are millions of people in this country today walking around feeling perfectly fine who really have things going on in their bodies that will eventually kill them?


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

Irish Pixie said:


> So you say. And that ends the discussion part of today's program.


Glad you finally see it too


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## GTX63 (Dec 13, 2016)

The typical life expectancy of an American male is about 78 1/2 years.
With a covid label attached it is about 78 years.


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## Farmerga (May 6, 2010)

According to John's Hopkins, 250K to 400K die from preventable medical mistakes each year. (A typical year, this year I have a feeling that Rona killed them all.) By the logic of some, we should avoid hospitals and other medical centers like the plague (pun sort of intended).


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## barnbilder (Jul 1, 2005)

The fake concern for human life is appalling. It was the first tell that this was a scam.


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## GTX63 (Dec 13, 2016)

HDRider said:


> This has been a scam on a global scale


Curious why those who like numbers aren't doing a death count on lives lost due to riots and peaceful protesting?
Or why they aren't mentioning the numbers of families home from work due to pandemic or their store being reduced to cinders?
I think folks know the answer.


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## GTX63 (Dec 13, 2016)

Farmerga said:


> According to John's Hopkins, 250K to 400K die from preventable medical mistakes each year. (A typical year, this year I have a feeling that Rona killed them all.) By the logic of some, we should avoid hospitals and other medical centers like the plague (pun sort of intended).


Now those are numbers we can count on.


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

This scam has devastated the US and global economy.

One has to ask why


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## barnbilder (Jul 1, 2005)

We had a brilliant scientist that could have saved us from this dreaded pandemic. But we suctioned him to death.


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## SLADE (Feb 20, 2004)

HDRider said:


> This scam has devastated the US and global economy.
> 
> One has to ask why


Ask the guy that signed on the dotted line. This is a pandemic.
Whats the name of the guy?
Pandemic declarererer


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

SLADE said:


> Ask the guy that signed on the dotted line. This is a pandemic.
> Whats the name of the guy?
> Pandemic declarererer


He got scammed


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## SLADE (Feb 20, 2004)

HDRider said:


> He got scammed


           come on


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## barnbilder (Jul 1, 2005)

Irish Pixie said:


> For *184,353 *dead people and their families and friends Covid is not overstated at all. Those infected, recovered, and have life long complications don't think so either.


So in an effort to save those people, an impossible feat with extant resources, we kill these people. Guess the only lives that matter are the ones that promote the right agenda.








Reports: Opioid overdoses on the rise during COVID-19 pandemic


The COVID-19 pandemic coincides with the rise of opioid overdoses.




www.houstonchronicle.com


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

SLADE said:


> come on


Not sure how anyone could find that funny

Sew this on your jacket


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## Redlands Okie (Nov 28, 2017)

Irish Pixie said:


> Those people with comorbidity(s) were living with them until Covid killed them. Why is that so hard to understand? Living without Covid, dead after being infected.
> 
> You want to downplay the deaths because of your agenda.
> 
> And this is pointless, you'll never accept that Covid has killed tens of thousands of people and ruined the lives of many more. I will never accept that those lives mean less because the virus has a "low death rate".



The same logic says that those with positive covid tests and whom died a few days later obviously died from age related problems. After all they lived for a while with covid. Increased age must have killed them.


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## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

Farmerga said:


> According to John's Hopkins, 250K to 400K die from preventable medical mistakes each year. (A typical year, this year I have a feeling that Rona killed them all.) By the logic of some, we should avoid hospitals and other medical centers like the plague (pun sort of intended).


I've seen this statement in various forums since the beginning of Covid, and it doesn't work for me. Yes, people die in accidents, from disease, etc. but Covid has stepped up the number of deaths by 184K, and that doesn't seem to be an issue for some people. 

Anyway, carry on.


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## barnbilder (Jul 1, 2005)

Fact. Nobody died from covid that wasn't going to die anyway. The issue is time. How much sooner did they die? What was the quality of life lost?

Some of the covid deaths can be attributed to the flu vaccine. They push the flu vaccine in elder care settings. It has much the same effect as letting dead wood accumulate on the forest floor.


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## Nevada (Sep 9, 2004)

HDRider said:


> Covid is listed as the cause of death in a little over 10,000 of those deaths.


That's not surprising in the least. Consider this clipping from Alma's death certificate.



http://entomy.com/cause.jpg



The immediate cause of death was asystole (her heart stopped), yet she was never diagnosed or treated for any heart condition. It would be a lot more accurate to say that she died of septic shock, since that's what led to multiorgan failure and asystole.

So if Alma was still around today and died during a COVID-19 illness, her immediate cause of death might still be listed as asystole but COVID-19 would have been the underlying reason that her heart ultimately stopped.


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## poppy (Feb 21, 2008)

Irish Pixie said:


> I've seen this statement in various forums since the beginning of Covid, and it doesn't work for me. Yes, people die in accidents, from disease, etc. *but Covid has stepped up the number of deaths by 184K*, and that doesn't seem to be an issue for some people.
> 
> Anyway, carry on.


That is pure supposition. We don't know how many of those would have died in the last six months anyway or how many of those would die from their comorbidities in the next month or two. Did COVID speed up their deaths? It likely did for some but so would the flu, pneumonia, or any other infection. As I've said before, we will not know how many extra people died from the virus until the total death figures for this year are published. Look at the stats for the states. Take here in Illinois for example. We average 301 deaths per day. Our Covid deaths are around 10 per day, so unless our daily death number rises to 311, we can't say how many extra deaths Covid caused.


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## kinderfeld (Jan 29, 2006)

Irish Pixie said:


> Those people with comorbidity(s) were living with them until Covid killed them. Why is that so hard to understand? Living without Covid, dead after being infected.
> 
> You want to downplay the deaths because of your agenda.
> 
> And this is pointless, you'll never accept that Covid has killed tens of thousands of people and ruined the lives of many more. I will never accept that those lives mean less because the virus has a "low death rate".


 Any number of illnesses can exacerbate a comorbidity to the point of killing an individual. But, the chief cause of death is still that comorbidity. And chief among those in the case of covid related deaths are obesity, cardiovascular disease, and diabetes. These conditions happen to be our number one killers anyway, and, sadly are almost 100% preventable. This would be a good time to talk to people about taking better care of their health. The data clearly show that without these underlying conditions they likely would have survived.


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## Redlands Okie (Nov 28, 2017)

One thing this covid virus has taught us is that NONE of the measures taken worked very well if at all. Social distancing, mask, stay at hone, etc. Medical and governmental organizations have been next to useless. 

Just think what will happen when a really deadly and easily transmitted contagious problem comes around. For those so upset about this little problem we have now it would seem they should devote their time and energy preparing their family, friends, city, hospital, and political leaders to be able to deal with a serious problem. Personally I have read nothing on the news or for that matter on these forums from those that show so much concern actually doing something.


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## JeffreyD (Dec 27, 2006)

Irish Pixie said:


> So you say. And that ends the discussion part of today's program.


Bye!!


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## wdcutrsdaughter (Dec 9, 2012)

we can bicker back and forth all day about it but the real question is - what are we supposed to do about it?
what are we even supposed to do with this information? carry it to the grocery store and hope they don't make me wear my mask.
when does it stop?


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

wdcutrsdaughter said:


> when does it stop?


That is a very good question


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## Redlands Okie (Nov 28, 2017)

My town just extended the mask in public mandate until the end of the year. The listed reason in the paper given by the local politicians? Because it allowed the city to apply for FEMA grants. 

Yep, money, not the supposedly safe well being of the people.


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## wdcutrsdaughter (Dec 9, 2012)

HDRider said:


> That is a very good question


I doubt any one of us has an answer


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## kinderfeld (Jan 29, 2006)




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## dmm1976 (Oct 29, 2013)

Im not mad at the social distancing and masks. I feel like it makes the masses feel safer to go about their business and not shut down our economy. 
Do i think its helping anything. No not really. 

Dh works at a restaraunt. They had to sit every other booth until last week. They installed 3 ft dividers to the backs of the booths so you cant see the adjacent booths. Apparently that makes it safe enough to seat every booth. And if you are sitting at a table you dont have to wear a mask. 
Because a deadly virus wouldnt be able to go over or around a divider. Or when you are seated. 

My son is at higher risk because of chronic health issues. Its up to me and my husband to stay as isolated as possible . and follow good hygiene protocols when we get home from work. Its everyone elses ( healthy young people) responsability to get spread and recover ( hopefully symptom free)to stop it. 

I think the systems in place are to make people feel safe because at this point no one can tell the truth.

If a person has a family member or is themselves at higher risk for adverse reaction. They should be taking extra precautions to avoid being infected until some type of vaccine or herd immunity is achieved.


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## nodak3 (Feb 5, 2003)

Can't fix stupid. Those who get it and recover are not immune. They have limited life antibodies, making them at best resistant but with a high chance of long term health problems. And in the meantime they are spreading it. Not necessarily to others who will survive it. And heads up: not everyone who dies has comorbidities.

Only when we get serious about doing all the right public health measures will we stop this. That and a good vaccine.

Actually I am at the point of wanting a vaccine that will actually confer immunity (they may not) and hope the "no way will I wear a mask and social distance" crowd also refuse the vaccine.

Then covid will fix stupid, given enough time.


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## Farmerga (May 6, 2010)

Irish Pixie said:


> I've seen this statement in various forums since the beginning of Covid, and it doesn't work for me. Yes, people die in accidents, from disease, etc. but Covid has stepped up the number of deaths by 184K, and that doesn't seem to be an issue for some people.
> 
> Anyway, carry on.


But we don't bubble wrap ourselves and avoid medical care because of those accidents in the medical field.


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

Irish Pixie said:


> For *184,353 *dead people and their families and friends Covid is not overstated at all. Those infected, recovered, and have life long complications don't think so either.


I'm guessing you didn't really read the OP before posting.
You jumped right to the emotional rhetoric and death totals while totally ignoring the context.



Irish Pixie said:


> So you say. And that ends the discussion part of today's program.


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

Irish Pixie said:


> I've seen this statement in various forums since the beginning of Covid, and it doesn't work for me. Yes, people die in accidents, from disease, etc. but* Covid has stepped up the number of deaths by 184K*, and that doesn't seem to be an issue for some people.


That's the media spin.
We all know they will lie.
We all know many will parrot those lies for their own agendas.
SSDD.


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## poppy (Feb 21, 2008)

nodak3 said:


> Can't fix stupid. Those who get it and recover are not immune. They have limited life antibodies, making them at best resistant but with a high chance of long term health problems. And in the meantime they are spreading it. Not necessarily to others who will survive it. And heads up: not everyone who dies has comorbidities.
> 
> Only when we get serious about doing all the right public health measures will we stop this. That and a good vaccine.
> 
> ...



None of your post is really factual. There are actually 3 forms of immunity from any virus. We do not know how long the antibodies will last but T cell immunity is the most important and that can last for years, decades, or a lifetime. How many people ever got mumps twice? You cite long term health problems from the virus and I know stories are out there but the vast majority have no long term symptoms. I have heard people say they are having problems months after the annual flu also. You do not know whether or not all who die of the virus have comorbidities or not. You and I may have comorbidities right now and yet think we are in perfect health. Ever know anyone who felt fine until a pain or something sent them to the Dr. where tests show they have cancer all over and only have 3 months to live? Comorbidities are not always obvious. Your concern for my ultimate demise is very touching.


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## rambler (Jan 20, 2004)

Irish Pixie said:


> Those people with comorbidity(s) were living with them until Covid killed them. Why is that so hard to understand? Living without Covid, dead after being infected.
> 
> You want to downplay the deaths because of your agenda.
> 
> And this is pointless, you'll never accept that Covid has killed tens of thousands of people and ruined the lives of many more. I will never accept that those lives mean less because the virus has a "low death rate".


there is the big picture of ‘all the people.’

some people die every day.

of various causes. Cancer heart failure auto crashes flu choking murder suicide sports accidents and on and on.

and every day many times more people live another day older.

at some point we all die.

so we need to weigh the dying one day vs living another day.

that is a complex formula, I’m sure each of us have a different scale to arrive at our comfort zone.

you seem to be picking out one specific disease, C-19, and making that the entire focus of your live/ die formula.

I find that odd.

people can choose to get in cars and risk dying, or not get in cars.

people can choose to eat a lot and get fat or not, and within reason control their risk of many diseases.

people can choose to go skiing or motorcycle racing or not, and control the risks in their lives.

making those choices affects them, and does not so much affect others.

likewise people can choose to become a hermit and avoid all contact with others and drastically change their lifestyles.

lot thry can choose to make very few changes and live their lives with a very low risk of actual problems from the C-19 virus.

the study listed at the top of this thread re affirms that the risks to most people is very low, much lower than the controllers and fear mongers want to pretend.Very very few healthy people actually need to worry about it.

your opinion on all of this is yours, but it doesn’t make much sense in the mounting evidence that this pandemic is more about controlling people, rather than helping anyone.

It appears more lives and more health is being ruined by the side effects of cowering in fear of C-19, when most of the healthy bodied people of the world should be concerned with just living their lives and be mindful of not overwhelming healthcare facilities with the small number of rough cases.

as many suspected from early on, most of this virus is about crontolling people through November, more so this. Caring about actual people. Your politics would lend yourself to following along with that.

I can’t see any other reason for following the views you have on this.

Back in the day people got some minor immunity from viruses, and lived their lives. Children were young and healthy and robust and went through their childhood exposure and recovered and life went on. Parent intentionally exposed their kids to these viruses so they got them when they should, when they can handle the disease and it has few effects. it was not a good idea to she,ter your kids from such exposure, as they were much safer to get the viruses when young.

weren’t no big deal.

With this new C-19 the older and sick people definitely need to be careful. It is a danger to thrm.

the rest of the population needs to quit hiding and get on with life, live, work, and the pursuit of happiness.

people who so crave control of others that want to hold the whole world back should be ignored. It’s become it very clear to more and more people this pandemic is just anothervery small risk to them in the world full of risks, where we all will die someday no matter what we do.

Your opinion makes less and less sense to all day by day.
Paul


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## Redlands Okie (Nov 28, 2017)

nodak3 said:


> Can't fix stupid. Those who get it and recover are not immune. They have limited life antibodies, making them at best resistant but with a high chance of long term health problems. And in the meantime they are spreading it. Not necessarily to others who will survive it. And heads up: not everyone who dies has comorbidities.
> 
> Only when we get serious about doing all the right public health measures will we stop this. That and a good vaccine.
> 
> ...


if your safety precautions are as they should be then there is little for you to worry about from others. If your relying on someone else’s safety precautions to protect you then its time for a reality check. Best of luck, your going to need it. Your right, can’t fix stupid.


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## Alice In TX/MO (May 10, 2002)

I hope you get tired of this bogus straw man “argument” soon. No one is buying it.



Irish Pixie said:


> For *184,353 *dead people and their families and friends Covid is not overstated at all. Those infected, recovered, and have life long complications don't think so either.


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

Alice In TX/MO said:


> I hope you get tired of this bogus straw man “argument” soon. No one is buying it.


She has incredible stamina


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## Hiro (Feb 14, 2016)

nodak3 said:


> Can't fix stupid. Those who get it and recover are not immune. They have limited life antibodies, making them at best resistant but with a high chance of long term health problems. And in the meantime they are spreading it. Not necessarily to others who will survive it. And heads up: not everyone who dies has comorbidities.
> 
> Only when we get serious about doing all the right public health measures will we stop this. That and a good vaccine.
> 
> ...



For the sake of clarity, you don't believe having had the Wuflu provides immunity, yet you are hoping a vaccine will? Do you know how vaccines work? You believe the right public health measures will stop it? And those that don't follow public health measures, which btw were never even promoted as stopping it, just mitigating/slowing the spread, should be harmed by the Wuflu? This seems an illogical thought process.


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

Hiro said:


> For the sake of clarity, you don't believe having had the Wuflu provides immunity, yet you are hoping a vaccine will? Do you know how vaccines work? You believe the right public health measures will stop it? And those that don't follow public health measures, which btw were never even promoted as stopping it, just mitigating/slowing the spread, should be harmed by the Wuflu? This seems an illogical thought process.


We are just too stupid


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## GunMonkeyIntl (May 13, 2013)

HDRider said:


> Hiro said:
> 
> 
> > For the sake of clarity, you don't believe having had the Wuflu provides immunity, yet you are hoping a vaccine will? Do you know how vaccines work? You believe the right public health measures will stop it? And those that don't follow public health measures, which btw were never even promoted as stopping it, just mitigating/slowing the spread, should be harmed by the Wuflu? This seems an illogical thought process.
> ...


It’ll be over when they tell us it’s over.

Stand by to November 4th for an update, subject.


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## SpentPenny (Jun 11, 2020)

Irish Pixie said:


> Those people with comorbidity(s) were living with them until Covid killed them. Why is that so hard to understand? Living without Covid, dead after being infected.
> 
> You want to downplay the deaths because of your agenda.
> 
> And this is pointless, you'll never accept that Covid has killed tens of thousands of people and ruined the lives of many more. I will never accept that those lives mean less because the virus has a "low death rate".


The problem is that many jurisdictions do not know (or care) about the difference bwteen "dying from" and "dying with." "Dying with" is meaningless in the grand sceme of things. I will die "with" high blood pressure but that does not mean high blood pressure is any more dangerous to me than anyone else.


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## barnbilder (Jul 1, 2005)

nodak3 said:


> Can't fix stupid. Those who get it and recover are not immune. They have limited life antibodies, making them at best resistant but with a high chance of long term health problems. And in the meantime they are spreading it. Not necessarily to others who will survive it. And heads up: not everyone who dies has comorbidities.
> 
> Only when we get serious about doing all the right public health measures will we stop this. That and a good vaccine.
> 
> ...


If antibodies don't work then a vaccine won't work. We need to stop wasting resources on masks and vaccines because those resources are needed for making coffins. Vaccine makers should work on self digging coffin technology and we should all climb in one if antibodies don't work the way antibodies have worked for thousands of years.


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## Alice In TX/MO (May 10, 2002)

Not all diseases cause long term antibody response.


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## Redlands Okie (Nov 28, 2017)

I am trying to picture the various models and options on those self powered coffins.


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## barnbilder (Jul 1, 2005)

Alice In TX/MO said:


> Not all diseases cause long term antibody response.


How long do the vaccines work on diseases that do not cause long term antibody responses?


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

barnbilder said:


> How long do the vaccines work on diseases that do not cause long term antibody responses?


There are lots of variables.


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## Alice In TX/MO (May 10, 2002)

There is not an answer to that question, barnbuilder. I have no idea how many diseases there are on earth. I doubt anyone does know.


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## rambler (Jan 20, 2004)

dmm1976 said:


> Im not mad at the social distancing and masks. I feel like it makes the masses feel safer to go about their business and not shut down our economy.
> Do i think its helping anything. No not really.
> 
> Dh works at a restaraunt. They had to sit every other booth until last week. They installed 3 ft dividers to the backs of the booths so you cant see the adjacent booths. Apparently that makes it safe enough to seat every booth. And if you are sitting at a table you dont have to wear a mask.
> ...


a very sensible and thoughtful message. Down the middle of the road.

I appreciate that.


I think the distancing and the extra precautions made sense when this started. We didn’t know what we were facing.

today we know a lot more and should be a lot more prepared

some need to remain very cautious, some should be able to return to a more normal path, and certainly the fear should be subsiding.

I pretty much see that in the real world.

Paul


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## Armstrong69 (Aug 31, 2020)

This is ****ing scary!


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## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

poppy said:


> That is pure supposition. We don't know how many of those would have died in the last six months anyway or how many of those would die from their comorbidities in the next month or two. Did COVID speed up their deaths? It likely did for some but so would the flu, pneumonia, or any other infection. As I've said before, we will not know how many extra people died from the virus until the total death figures for this year are published. Look at the stats for the states. Take here in Illinois for example. We average 301 deaths per day. Our Covid deaths are around 10 per day, so unless our daily death number rises to 311, we can't say how many extra deaths Covid caused.


It *is* pure supposition, and it will be proven, or not, in time as you say. And it's not just Illinois, it's the entire country. 

As some have said, everyone dies. Yes, they do. And some may have died within a few months, a year, but others (those with other health issues, some not in anyway due to the person's lifestyle) will have their lives cut years short due to Covid. What saddens me, is all Covid patients die alone, a nurse will sit with them if they can, but they die without family to comfort them. They can't draw a breath well enough to speak and/or they're sedated on a ventilator with no way to communicate. I may be emotional, but I don't want a loved one to go through that even if they're old and have heath problems, it's just the way I am. 

So. I stay home when I can, I wear a mask, I use hand sanitizer, and I help those around me that need whatever that my be. Cue the pejorative virtue signaling insults, I don't care what you think of me. I'm helping in my community and state. You (collective you) don't have to social distance or wear a mask, and others have every right to think you're selfish. 

What would you do? Do away with masks, social distancing, and hand sanitizer? Open everything nationally? Remember that you have family at risk too.


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## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

Bearfootfarm said:


> That's the media spin.
> We all know they will lie.
> We all know many will parrot those lies for their own agendas.
> SSDD.


I absolutely agree on all of it, and it works the opposite way as well. That's what is apparently poorly understood.


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## Farmerga (May 6, 2010)

Irish Pixie said:


> What would you do? Do away with masks, social distancing, and hand sanitizer? Open everything nationally? Remember that you have family at risk too.


Not quite. Educate about masks, let people know that they aren't the magic bullet they are believed to be. They have their place, but people endow them with too much power. Social distancing and handwashing should be elevated far above mask wearing. As it stands now, many believe that wearing a mask nullifies the need for the other two. I would open the vast majority of things nationally. There are a few hot spots that should continue at less than capacity, but, those should be taken on a case by case basis. I have a cousin who had it. Nurse,53 with some pre-existing conditions. She was a little weak for a couple of days and was fine after that.


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## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

Alice In TX/MO said:


> I hope you get tired of this bogus straw man “argument” soon.


And yet you continue to respond to my "straw man argument", you tired yet?


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

Irish Pixie said:


> I absolutely agree on all of it


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## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

Farmerga said:


> Not quite. Educate about masks, let people know that they aren't the magic bullet they are believed to be. They have their place, but people endow them with too much power. Social distancing and handwashing should be elevated far above mask wearing. As it stands now, many believe that wearing a mask nullifies the need for the other two. I would open the vast majority of things nationally. There are a few hot spots that should continue at less than capacity, but, those should be taken on a case by case basis. I have a cousin who had it. Nurse,53 with some pre-existing conditions. She was a little weak for a couple of days and was fine after that.


I don't know anyone that thinks masks are any more important, and certainly not a magic bullet, than social distancing and hand sanitizer, hand washing is simply a given. Specifically, which things should be open nationally?

I too, had a family member (62) with Covid, and has some ongoing complications which will have to be monitored.


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## Alice In TX/MO (May 10, 2002)

Everything should be opened up. We are past the “flatten the curve” point.


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

Alice In TX/MO said:


> Everything should be opened up. We are past the “flatten the curve” point.


We have things closed for the virus and the riots.


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## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

Alice In TX/MO said:


> Everything should be opened up. We are past the “flatten the curve” point.


Are we? No hospitals could be overwhelmed? I guess it's possible, but doubtful if everything is opened nationally. Would you still require mandatory masks and social distancing? Mandatory isolation for those testing positive? If so, how often should every citizen be tested due to asymptotic carriers?


----------



## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

Irish Pixie said:


> Are we? *[Yes]* No hospitals could be overwhelmed? *[No]* I guess it's possible, but doubtful if everything is opened nationally. Would you still require mandatory masks and social distancing? *[No]* Mandatory isolation for those testing positive? *[No]* If so, how often should every citizen be tested due to asymptotic carriers?


The jig is up


----------



## Farmerga (May 6, 2010)

Irish Pixie said:


> I don't know anyone that thinks masks are any more important, and certainly not a magic bullet, than social distancing and hand sanitizer, hand washing is simply a given. Specifically, which things should be open nationally?


I am going off what I have seen and experienced. Social distancing seems to go out of the window the exact moment a mask mandate is enforced inside a business. It is easier to say what shouldn't be opened. The business owners should determine.


----------



## po boy (Jul 12, 2010)




----------



## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

A lot of people have blinders on


----------



## random (Jul 23, 2020)

poppy said:


> You cite long term health problems from the virus and I know stories are out there but the vast majority have no long term symptoms.


I'm curious how we can possibly know about _any_ long-term health problems from a virus that we've known about for less than a year.


Irish Pixie said:


> What saddens me, is all Covid patients die alone, a nurse will sit with them if they can, but they die without family to comfort them.


What saddens me is that compassion is reserved for Covid patients.


Irish Pixie said:


> I don't know anyone that thinks masks are any more important, and certainly not a magic bullet, than social distancing and hand sanitizer, hand washing is simply a given.


I would suggest that "if you don't wear a mask you're killing people" is putting the mask above the rest and seeing it as a magic bullet.


----------



## GTX63 (Dec 13, 2016)

No compassion for the out of work, those who have lost their businesses, kids can't get a proper education.
Interesting that they have such selective feels.


----------



## MJsLady (Aug 16, 2006)

Just an off the wall thought.
What if this, an easily transmitted, but relatively harmless, illness is just a test run?
What if something else, also easily transmitted but much deadlier is being cooked up in that lab to be unleashed specifically on the USA?
What if this was done just to test our responses? So the perpetrator could see our strengths and weaknesses in combating such a thing?

OK carry on.


----------



## poppy (Feb 21, 2008)

random said:


> I'm curious how we can possibly know about _any_ long-term health problems from a virus that we've known about for less than a year.
> 
> What saddens me is that compassion is reserved for Covid patients.
> 
> I would suggest that "if you don't wear a mask you're killing people" is putting the mask above the rest and seeing it as a magic bullet.



That is a good point. There is no evidence yet of truly long term damage. From what I've read, some inflammation can continue for awhile after you recover but nothing really long term. I've heard people say they don't feel quite right a month or two after having the flu too but they eventually return to normal.


----------



## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

A lot of people are wearing blindfolds


MJsLady said:


> Just an off the wall thought.
> What if this, an easily transmitted, but relatively harmless, illness is just a test run?
> What if something else, also easily transmitted but much deadlier is being cooked up in that lab to be unleashed specifically on the USA?
> What if this was done just to test our responses? So the perpetrator could see our strengths and weaknesses in combating such a thing?
> ...


To think China has not thought in just that way is naive.


----------



## Redlands Okie (Nov 28, 2017)

5 years ago anyone with a existing health issue could take safety precautions. They can do so now. 5 years ago the rest of the population was not expected to shut down business and life as a result of someone else’s health problems. For some reason we seem to be expected to now. The math just is not there to justify it. 

What’s frustrating is the incredible lack of proper protection items available and the ridiculous display of improper use of masks and other gear. 

I would not be surprised it there is a more potent virus in the future. Man made or natural. What would surprise is for people to think they are going to stop a similar pandemic. The requirements and sacrifices to stop a similar pandemic is beyond the average persons ability to really understand I think.


----------



## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

HDRider said:


> The jig is up


Interesting. A variation on the Hunger Games. As Effie Trinket said: "May the odds be ever in your favor."


----------



## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

random said:


> I'm curious how we can possibly know about _any_ long-term health problems from a virus that we've known about for less than a year.
> 
> What saddens me is that compassion is reserved for Covid patients.
> 
> I would suggest that "if you don't wear a mask you're killing people" is putting the mask above the rest and seeing it as a magic bullet.


Google "complications of low oxygen saturation", and here are a couple Covid specific Iinks:









Long-term symptoms, complications of COVID-19


Acute symptoms of COVID-19, such as cough, fever and shortness of breath, are now widely known. What is not known, however, is what symptoms and complications may linger long after an initial COVID-19 infection. Early research shows the disease attacks more than just the respiratory system...




medicalxpress.com













Long-term symptoms, complications of COVID-19 - Mayo Clinic News Network


Acute symptoms of COVID-19, such as cough, fever and shortness of breath, are now widely known. What is not known, however, is what symptoms and complications may linger long after an initial COVID-19 infection. Early research shows the disease attacks more than just the respiratory system...




newsnetwork.mayoclinic.org





Your second sentence is simply your opinion. You are entitled to it, but it doesn't make it true.

Third- I've never said anything of the sort. And it's only a faulty generalization that you may feel is valid.


----------



## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

Farmerga said:


> I am going off what I have seen and experienced. Social distancing seems to go out of the window the exact moment a mask mandate is enforced inside a business. It is easier to say what shouldn't be opened. The business owners should determine.


How do you think business owners will react? In a fair and impartial way to protect their customers? Or their own bottom line?


----------



## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

Irish Pixie said:


> Interesting. A variation on the Hunger Games. As Effie Trinket said: "May the odds be ever in your favor."


Not familiar


----------



## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

Irish Pixie said:


> How do you think business owners will react? In a fair and impartial way to protect their customers? Or their own bottom line?


Health before wealth, as your good buddy so often repeated,


----------



## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

HDRider said:


> Not familiar


Great trilogy, decent movies.


----------



## mreynolds (Jan 1, 2015)

GunMonkeyIntl said:


> It’ll be over when they tell us it’s over.
> 
> Stand by to November 4th for an update, subject.


Depends on who wins.


----------



## barnbilder (Jul 1, 2005)

mreynolds said:


> Depends on who wins.


We lose either way.


----------



## Farmerga (May 6, 2010)

Irish Pixie said:


> How do you think business owners will react? In a fair and impartial way to protect their customers? Or their own bottom line?


Like they have in Georgia. There are no statewide mask/SD mandates here, however most businesses have them.


----------



## TripleD (Feb 12, 2011)

15 million plus live in the Carolinas. Lest than 2000 in the hospital for " covid" . I you choose to watch my local news???


----------



## homesteadforty (Dec 4, 2007)

Farmerga said:


> By the logic of some, we should avoid hospitals and other medical centers like the plague (pun sort of intended).


 I already do and always have.


----------



## homesteadforty (Dec 4, 2007)

wdcutrsdaughter said:


> we can bicker back and forth all day about it...
> when does it stop?


The bickering???... never. If a billion die that side will still be saying "I told you so"... if everybody lives that side will still be saying "i told you so". The idjits have their minds made up and they are unwilling or unable to see any point other than their own... and they're proud of it.


----------



## wdcutrsdaughter (Dec 9, 2012)

homesteadforty said:


> The bickering???... never. If a billion die that side will still be saying "I told you so"... if everybody lives that side will still be saying "i told you so". The idjits have their minds made up and they are unwilling or unable to see any point other than their own... and they're proud of it.


no, I wasn't asking when the bickering stops. I was asking when the restrictions stop, based on this new data release.


----------



## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

wdcutrsdaughter said:


> no, I wasn't asking when the bickering stops. I was asking when the restrictions stop, based on this new data release.


Some people answer without knowing the question


----------



## SLADE (Feb 20, 2004)

Irish Pixie said:


> How do you think business owners will react? In a fair and impartial way to protect their customers? Or their own bottom line?


That's the one question that wingnuttery cannot answer. They hope in their greedy little hearts ALL business is corrupt. Ignoring the safety of their customers and themselves.


----------



## TripleD (Feb 12, 2011)

SLADE said:


> That's the one question that wingnuttery cannot answer. They hope in their greedy little hearts ALL business is corrupt.


You like to have fun! The business owners have obligations too. Didn't you say in a post it's the survival of the fittest.


----------



## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

SLADE said:


> That's the one question that wingnuttery cannot answer. They hope in their greedy little hearts ALL business is corrupt.


People will think you are crazy if they see you talking to yourself.


----------



## random (Jul 23, 2020)

Irish Pixie said:


> Google "complications of low oxygen saturation", and here are a couple Covid specific Iinks:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


From that link "What is _not known_, however, is what symptoms and complications may linger long after an initial COVID-19 infection. "

My point isn't that there ARE none, only that we haven't had enough time to know yet. Only time will tell.



> Your second sentence is simply your opinion. You are entitled to it, but it doesn't make it true.


I said "what makes me sad", you're saying that it doesn't make me sad?



> Third- I've never said anything of the sort. And it's only a faulty generalization that you may feel is valid.


As I quoted, I was responding to your statement _"I don't know anyone that thinks masks are any more important, and certainly not a magic bullet"_ - People right here on this forum have said that not wearing masks is killing people. Whether you said it or not, there are demonstrably people who have come to that conclusion. That was the entirety of my point. And I don't see how my statement is even a generalization, let alone a faulty one.


----------



## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

random said:


> From that link "What is _not known_, however, is what symptoms and complications may linger long after an initial COVID-19 infection. "
> 
> My point isn't that there ARE none, only that we haven't had enough time to know yet. Only time will tell.
> 
> ...


It's just my opinion, but I don't think you want to exchange information and never bothered to read the links after you thought you found a "gotcha", you just want to play games. And that's fine, if that's what you want to do, I don't. So you can play all the games you want with someone else.


----------



## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

TripleD said:


> 15 million plus live in the Carolinas.


The death rate in North Carolina is less than 2%.


----------



## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

Irish Pixie said:


> you just want to play games.











I sure wish that the personal jabs would stop.


Why can't everyone just discuss the topics and stop with the personal jabs. These days I write and rewrite my posts so that I don't do this. If you think I have made one of these then I would love you to point it out to me in a PM and I can change it. It is driving good members away. I can't...




www.homesteadingtoday.com













Crapping on other threads


I am working hard on not doing that others threads. I would appreciate you not doing it to mine. If you don't like what I post move on. If I don't like your topic I won't crap on your thread. Please don't make my threads political. Just report it if you think it is. If you think I make your...




www.homesteadingtoday.com













Who is willing to work towards more adult conversations?


Okay I am putting it out there. I want the name calling and put downs to stop. I don't want to see it on either side. I want to know who is willing to make the change and who is not. Are we going to work as a group to cut out the hate? Please speak up.




www.homesteadingtoday.com


----------



## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

Bearfootfarm said:


> I sure wish that the personal jabs would stop.
> 
> 
> Why can't everyone just discuss the topics and stop with the personal jabs. These days I write and rewrite my posts so that I don't do this. If you think I have made one of these then I would love you to point it out to me in a PM and I can change it. It is driving good members away. I can't...
> ...


 You are confused.


----------



## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

Irish Pixie said:


> You are confused.


Not at all.
The evidence is documented.


----------



## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

Irish Pixie said:


> If so, how often should every citizen be tested due to asymptotic carriers?


Ask the "experts".




__





New CDC Guidelines Decrease Coronavirus Testing - Search







www.bing.com


----------



## Alice In TX/MO (May 10, 2002)

Sarcasm due to frustration.

It depends on:

what day it is
WHO it is (see what I did there?)
what the CDC has changed today
what phase the moon is in


----------



## wr (Aug 10, 2003)

Irish Pixie said:


> For *184,353 *dead people and their families and friends Covid is not overstated at all. Those infected, recovered, and have life long complications don't think so either.


Does you response not conflict with your signature line? It seems to suggest that maybe many of those who died are simply the deserving victims of karma.


----------



## homesteadforty (Dec 4, 2007)

HDRider said:


> Some people answer without knowing the question


And some people know a rhetorical answer when they see it... others, not so much.


----------



## dmm1976 (Oct 29, 2013)

Had to put this here. This has been one of my favorite youtube channels for the last few months.


----------



## GTX63 (Dec 13, 2016)

1:23 is hilarious.


----------



## MJsLady (Aug 16, 2006)

That is migraine inducing...


----------



## cjennmom (Sep 4, 2010)

Um, yeah. TOTAL current US death rate (not just one cause or another) is under 10 per 1,000 lives. In the 19th century it was 300-500 per 1,000. This is No tragedy.



Irish Pixie said:


> For *184,353 *dead people and their families and friends Covid is not overstated at all. Those infected, recovered, and have life long complications don't think so either.


----------



## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

It sure is a tragedy. Just not to you.


----------



## justascout1 (Jun 4, 2019)

It’s a bigger tragedy that millions are living in fear, businesses have been lost that provide livelihood for millions, schools are shuttered, the debt is greater than the GDP and the Constitution is being shredded. For a political disease aimed at the election, not public health and safety.


----------



## Alice In TX/MO (May 10, 2002)

The existence of a virus is not a cultural tragedy. The effect of contagion on some small percentage of our population is a tragedy for those families. The negative effect of government interference in business and the daily lives of our population far exceeds the per capita effect of the actual disease. 

Throwing words around and playing games with them is frustrating to those who believe that words mean things.


----------



## debtoyou (Sep 3, 2015)

More people have died from hiv/aids and abortion this year then even Covid comes close to.


----------



## justascout1 (Jun 4, 2019)

More people have died from gun violence in the cities than the virus comes close to.


----------



## barnbilder (Jul 1, 2005)

Covid will go down in history as small potatoes. It's true power is in the hands of more dangerous killers. 








Communism Killed 94 Million People in 20th Century


94 million perished in China, the Soviet Union, North Korea, and Eastern Europe, easily exceeding the 28 million that died under fascism.




reason.com


----------



## mreynolds (Jan 1, 2015)

Alice In TX/MO said:


> The existence of a virus is not a cultural tragedy. The effect of contagion on some small percentage of our population is a tragedy for those families. The negative effect of government interference in business and the daily lives of our population far exceeds the per capita effect of the actual disease.
> 
> Throwing words around and playing games with them is frustrating to those who believe that words mean things.


Yes, we would rather pay 100k for a loaf of bread next year so we can look good online today by being a social justice warrior.......

Without ever leaving the comfort of home......


----------



## Alice In TX/MO (May 10, 2002)

That is a magnificent video. Took me to a new mental place.

Thank you for posting that.


----------



## GTX63 (Dec 13, 2016)

justascout1 said:


> It’s a bigger tragedy that millions are living in fear, businesses have been lost that provide livelihood for millions, schools are shuttered, the debt is greater than the GDP and the Constitution is being shredded. For a political disease aimed at the election, not public health and safety.


Excellent post.


----------



## GTX63 (Dec 13, 2016)

debtoyou said:


> More people have died from hiv/aids and abortion this year then even Covid comes close to.


And yet where is the outcry?


----------



## GTX63 (Dec 13, 2016)

justascout1 said:


> More people have died from gun violence in the cities than the virus comes close to.


Maybe BLM can get around to that issue in the future after the smoke clears, so to speak.


----------



## Linda Schnaible (Feb 21, 2020)

poppy said:


> That is just silly. For the families of the thousands of flu deaths each year, the flu is not overstated either. For the families of the thousands of traffic deaths each year, traffic deaths are not overstated either. The point is, COVID by itself kills very few people and common sense says some of that 9,000 with only COVID as a known illness actually had other unknown serious health issues. Do you realize there are millions of people in this country today walking around feeling perfectly fine who really have things going on in their bodies that will eventually kill them?


----------



## random (Jul 23, 2020)

Irish Pixie said:


> It's just my opinion, but I don't think you want to exchange information and never bothered to read the links after you thought you found a "gotcha", you just want to play games. And that's fine, if that's what you want to do, I don't. So you can play all the games you want with someone else.


I read the article and responded, you just don't like the response. Whatever you think about it, at least I respond to what you share. That's how discussion works. You think I'm posting a "gotcha", feel free to engage with why you think that. Back and forth, both ways.

Have you read *any* of the link's I've posted? You certainly haven't responded to any of them.


----------



## wr (Aug 10, 2003)

painterswife said:


> It sure is a tragedy. Just not to you.


There are many tragedies in this and it extends way beyond a body tally. Families are separated by closed borders, suicides and domestic violence has risen sharply, critical surgeries have been cancelled or postponed causing further deaths. Many seniors also died alone while under lockdown and many more lost congnitive skills from lack of stimulation. 

I don't have any more answers than anybody else but I do feel that we need to at all angles before declaring lockdown a success or failure.


----------



## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

I have not claimed the lockdown was a success or a failure. I do know it gave our medical community time to get some of what they needed to treat those infected and ill. I do know it gave them time to find some treatments that would save lives. I do know that some countries were able to use that time to put into place protocols that helped minimize the spread.

It was a tragedy in many ways and I was responding to someone that said it was not. I did not narrow beam the tragedy.


----------



## Nevada (Sep 9, 2004)

poppy said:


> That is just silly. For the families of the thousands of flu deaths each year, the flu is not overstated either. For the families of the thousands of traffic deaths each year, traffic deaths are not overstated either. The point is, COVID by itself kills very few people and common sense says some of that 9,000 with only COVID as a known illness actually had other unknown serious health issues. Do you realize there are millions of people in this country today walking around feeling perfectly fine who really have things going on in their bodies that will eventually kill them?


Sure, we'll all die of something eventually. But that's not the attitude we took after 9/11.

Try using that as a defense after killing someone with a firearm. "But your honor, he was probably going to die from a heart attack someday anyway. What's the big deal?"


----------



## Alice In TX/MO (May 10, 2002)

The discussion was good. Thank you.


----------



## Redlands Okie (Nov 28, 2017)

Nevada said:


> Sure, we'll all die of something eventually. But that's not the attitude we took after 9/11.
> 
> Try using that as a defense after killing someone with a firearm. "But your honor, he was probably going to die from a heart attack someday anyway. What's the big deal?"


So 9/11 and the wuhan virus are somehow similar? 9/11 involved a lot of murders caused by those trying to kill people. Perhaps these conspiracy wuhan rumors are true.


----------



## Alice In TX/MO (May 10, 2002)

He didn’t say they were similar. He said it was a turning point.


----------



## Nevada (Sep 9, 2004)

What belittling the severity of the pandemic is all about is justifying ignoring the pandemic in favor of reopening the economy. Trump sees the state of the economy as key to reelection. So to get reelected he's trying to do an end-run around the pandemic to reopen the economy.

The economy is doing poorly because of the pandemic. So the pandemic needs to be resolved before the economy can get back on track.

But if we ignore the pandemic Americans will die, a lot of them.


----------



## TripleD (Feb 12, 2011)

Nevada said:


> What belittling the severity of the pandemic is all about is justifying ignoring the pandemic in favor of reopening the economy. Trump sees the state of the economy as key to reelection. So to get reelected he's trying to do an end-run around the pandemic to reopen the economy.
> 
> The economy is doing poorly because of the pandemic. So the pandemic needs to be resolved before the economy can get back on track.
> 
> But if we ignore the pandemic Americans will die, a lot of them.


Here the economy is fine. If I can't contact a roofer, realtor, two lawyers and a septic system guy yesterday all is well.... One of the Realtors is my nephew....


----------



## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

Nevada said:


> What belittling the severity of the pandemic is all about is justifying ignoring the pandemic in favor of reopening the economy. Trump sees the state of the economy as key to reelection. So to get reelected he's trying to do an end-run around the pandemic to reopen the economy.
> 
> The economy is doing poorly because of the pandemic. So the pandemic needs to be resolved before the economy can get back on track.
> 
> But if we ignore the pandemic Americans will die, a lot of them.


Cut out the politics


----------



## Redlands Okie (Nov 28, 2017)

Nevada said:


> What belittling the severity of the pandemic is all about is justifying ignoring the pandemic in favor of reopening the economy. Trump sees the state of the economy as key to reelection. So to get reelected he's trying to do an end-run around the pandemic to reopen the economy.
> 
> The economy is doing poorly because of the pandemic. So the pandemic needs to be resolved before the economy can get back on track.
> 
> But if we ignore the pandemic Americans will die, a lot of them.


The so called pandemic has been resolved. Look at the cdc numbers.


----------



## JeffreyD (Dec 27, 2006)

Nevada said:


> What belittling the severity of the pandemic is all about is justifying ignoring the pandemic in favor of reopening the economy. Trump sees the state of the economy as key to reelection. So to get reelected he's trying to do an end-run around the pandemic to reopen the economy.
> 
> The economy is doing poorly because of the pandemic. So the pandemic needs to be resolved before the economy can get back on track.
> 
> But if we ignore the pandemic Americans will die, a lot of them.


Your wrong(again) what has the cdc said recently? Oh, thats right the death rate from covid isn't nearly as bad as the who, cdc, and media made it out to be. You did hear about that didn't you? Cnn even mentioned the revised numbers. You wont accept them because they don fit your agenda. Seek help.
But, but, but.....Trump did it...
orange man bad ...


----------



## Nevada (Sep 9, 2004)

Redlands Okie said:


> The so called pandemic has been resolved. Look at the cdc numbers.


Check this out.

_More than 410,000 people in the US could die from the coronavirus by January 1, more than doubling the current death toll, a new model often cited by top health officials predicted Friday. That would mean 224,000 more lives lost in the US over the next four months._








The US coronavirus death toll is projected to reach 410,000 in the next 4 months if mask use wanes | CNN


More than 410,000 people in the US could die from the coronavirus by January 1, more than doubling the current death toll, a new model often cited by top health officials predicted Friday.




www.cnn.com


----------



## no really (Aug 7, 2013)

Nevada said:


> Check this out.
> 
> _More than 410,000 people in the US could die from the coronavirus by January 1, more than doubling the current death toll, a new model often cited by top health officials predicted Friday. That would mean 224,000 more lives lost in the US over the next four months._
> 
> ...


Wishful thinking from CNN.


----------



## Hiro (Feb 14, 2016)

Nevada said:


> Check this out.
> 
> _More than 410,000 people in the US could die from the coronavirus by January 1, more than doubling the current death toll, a new model often cited by top health officials predicted Friday. That would mean 224,000 more lives lost in the US over the next four months._
> 
> ...


Models that have been proven inaccurate in the past to predict the future isn't science and isn't news. Check out the tea leaves in the bottom of your cup and you'll likely be more accurate and prescient.


----------



## Redlands Okie (Nov 28, 2017)

Nevada said:


> Check this out.
> 
> _More than 410,000 people in the US could die from the coronavirus by January 1, more than doubling the current death toll, a new model often cited by top health officials predicted Friday. That would mean 224,000 more lives lost in the US over the next four months._
> 
> ...


Have been waiting for just one ACCURATE model since this so called wuhan pandemic provided the media and politicians a way to seriously hurt the economy. 

CDC says six percent of the covid related deaths are listed as caused by covid. The rest of the deaths are listed with multiple causes. This has provided the media, some politicians, and many in the medical field a way to make a nice profit above and beyond their normal means. 

Lots of illness out there with decades of reliable figures. For many of them we can actually do something that is constructive and beneficial. For the sick and the public in general. Pick one and be the savior your looking for.






__





COVID-19 Provisional Counts - Weekly Updates by Select Demographic and Geographic Characteristics


Tabulated data on provisional COVID-19 deaths by age, sex, race and Hispanic origin, and comorbidities. Also includes an index of state-level and county-level mortality data available for download.




www.cdc.gov


----------



## TripleD (Feb 12, 2011)

TripleD said:


> Here the economy is fine. If I can't contact a roofer, realtor, two lawyers and a septic system guy yesterday all is well.... One of the Realtors is my nephew....


The two lawyers and the roofer did call back. I guess they have earned their own worth to me!!!


----------



## Nevada (Sep 9, 2004)

Hiro said:


> Models that have been proven inaccurate


Scientific models beat superstition, wives tales and black magic.


----------



## Redlands Okie (Nov 28, 2017)

Not so far


----------



## Hiro (Feb 14, 2016)

Nevada said:


> Scientific models beat superstition, wives tales and black magic.


Your selectively artful, partial quotations fool no one.


----------



## Nevada (Sep 9, 2004)

Hiro said:


> Your selectively artful, partial quotations fool no one.


Your message wasn't that models are inaccurate?


----------



## Hiro (Feb 14, 2016)

Nevada said:


> Your message wasn't that models are inaccurate?


Try rereading what I wrote:



Hiro said:


> Models that have been proven inaccurate in the past to predict the future isn't science and isn't news. Check out the tea leaves in the bottom of your cup and you'll likely be more accurate and prescient.


----------



## barnbilder (Jul 1, 2005)

Nevada said:


> Scientific models beat superstition, wives tales and black magic.


Study up on Doctor William Farr.


----------



## barnbilder (Jul 1, 2005)

A good part of covid deaths are actually medical malpractice deaths. Not surprising as it is a huge killer, unlike the wuflu. Seems like elementary stuff, hey this guys lungs are messed up, let's blow them up like a balloon and see if they pop. Proof that the failed education system falls over into med school as well. We give people with no business workking outside of the car wash industry pieces of paper that say otherwise based on their ability to buy into or game the system. Now they are in positions to hold everyone as political hostages.








Covid death rates dropped as doctors rejected ventilators


Chances of dying in an intensive care unit fell in line with a decline in the use of mechanical ventilators




www.telegraph.co.uk


----------



## dmm1976 (Oct 29, 2013)

Nobody here "knows" anything beyond what is told to them on the interwebs and tv.


----------



## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

random said:


> I read the article and responded, you just don't like the response. Whatever you think about it, at least I respond to what you share. That's how discussion works. You think I'm posting a "gotcha", feel free to engage with why you think that. Back and forth, both ways.
> 
> Have you read *any* of the link's I've posted? You certainly haven't responded to any of them.


Yes, I've read the links you've posted, they're all pretty much the same and I probably won't continue. And in my opinion, you don't don't want a discussion, you want an argument. I don't, it's pointless. 

Have a wonderful day, I will.


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

Irish Pixie said:


> And in my opinion, you don't don't want a discussion, you want an argument.











I sure wish that the personal jabs would stop.


Why can't everyone just discuss the topics and stop with the personal jabs. These days I write and rewrite my posts so that I don't do this. If you think I have made one of these then I would love you to point it out to me in a PM and I can change it. It is driving good members away. I can't...




www.homesteadingtoday.com


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## random (Jul 23, 2020)

Nevada said:


> Scientific models beat superstition, wives tales and black magic.


Models are only as good as their assumptions, and the quality of the code. They are potentially useful for making predictions, and their value is determined by the accuracy of those predictions.



Irish Pixie said:


> Yes, I've read the links you've posted, they're all pretty much the same and I probably won't continue. And in my opinion, you don't don't want a discussion, you want an argument. I don't, it's pointless.


"all pretty much the same" proves that you haven't read them, since, other than the one CDC Journal link, I've posted several different links on several different topics. And claiming you don't want an argument when posting statements like _"Trump calls Nazis fine people"_ (and then refusing to address the evidence to the contrary) seems a bit contradictory to me. (BTW, there's another one of those links I provided). Or is what you want is to have your word taken as truth and no discussion to be had?

I realize that some people don't like it, but I will _always _"argue" (*argue*: intransitive verb: _To put forth reasons for or against; To attempt to prove by reasoning; To give evidence of;_) in favor of facts and empirical evidence.


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

Nevada said:


> Scientific models beat superstition, wives tales and black magic.











Homesteading Forum







www.homesteadingtoday.com


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## Alice In TX/MO (May 10, 2002)

Scientific models don’t beat diddly. Ask a hurricane victim.


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## TripleD (Feb 12, 2011)

Alice In TX/MO said:


> Scientific models don’t beat diddly. Ask a hurricane victim.


I thought it was doodley squat? Josey Wales.. I give my family a hard time on movie quotes.


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## Nevada (Sep 9, 2004)

Alice In TX/MO said:


> Scientific models don’t beat diddly. Ask a hurricane victim.


We didn't have weather satellites until the mid-1960s. So for the first 15 years of my life hurricane forecasts were pretty much hit & miss. The only information they had were weather reports from ships and island nations. It was difficult to guess where a hurricane might hit and how strong it would be. Coastal cities were continuously caught off guard.

Today we can track hurricane movements in real time.


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## TripleD (Feb 12, 2011)

Nevada said:


> We didn't have weather satellites until the mid-1960s. So for the first 15 years of my life hurricane forecasts were pretty much hit & miss. The only information they had were weather reports from ships and island nations. It was difficult to guess where a hurricane might hit and how strong it would be. Coastal cities were continuously caught off guard.
> 
> Today we can track hurricane movements in real time.


And as of 2016 you could predict the next president? Tides can change on anything. You should know playing at the casino??? Crystal ball up and running?


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## Redlands Okie (Nov 28, 2017)

Nevada said:


> We didn't have weather satellites until the mid-1960s. So for the first 15 years of my life hurricane forecasts were pretty much hit & miss. The only information they had were weather reports from ships and island nations. It was difficult to guess where a hurricane might hit and how strong it would be. Coastal cities were continuously caught off guard.
> 
> Today we can track hurricane movements in real time.


Tracking a hurricane is just information on its history, where its been. Absolutely nothing to do with models. Models are used to forecast where the hurricane might go and how it might act. 

So far the weatherman and their somewhat inaccurate forecast, that many of us like to joke about, are way more accurate than the deadly world ending covid forecasts. Should make a person wonder, why a deadly world ending virus has not been given a realistic priority. Hmm, perhaps it’s a pretty good sign of the actual importance of the virus to human life and a reflection of the importance for some political parties.


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