# Shotgun, pistol or rifle?



## CJ (May 10, 2002)

What would you recommend? I am often up on our land working by myself while hubby is at work. I might be gardening, brush hogging, dragging dead limbs out of the woods, or just taking a hike with my german shepherd.

I'm worried less about people (but would like to be covered in that even) than I am about stray dogs, snakes, a possible (but unlikely) bear.

I'd rather attach it to the Gator or the tractor than carry it.


----------



## Cornhusker (Mar 20, 2003)

If you aren't going to carry it, I'd say shotgun.
Shotguns are versatile and easy to learn.
Personally, I'd carry a handgun just in case I couldn't get to the shotgun, or keep a bear busy until you can get to more firepower.


----------



## flewism (Apr 2, 2007)

First gun ever, general protection in the woods and fields, shotgun. Now a shotgun is just going to piss off a bear. Maybe a 44mag on your hip and a shotgun on the gator for snakes, dogs and such. Plenty of training required with a handgun.


----------



## kbshorts (Dec 6, 2005)

Yep! Shotgun it is, pretty much covers all the bases.

KB


----------



## GREENCOUNTYPETE (Jul 25, 2006)

a shot gun is not just going to piss off a bear , if you use slugs it is a good tool for harvesting bear 

it is also what they carry most often for polar bear and grizzly bear in Alaska and northern Canada usually a 12 ga 


a shotgun is a very versatile tool , but you must pastern your gun to see what it patterns like , at 3 yards from even a cylinder bore 18 inch barrel shotgun you can expect a pattern not much larger than your fist , if you can hit a snake with that then it will be very tore up possibly cut in half 
that pattern spreads as it goes out much the way a flashlights beam does 
chokes are used to focus that shot to a smaller group at a greater range 

from your picture I am assuming your a woman , and you wish to have what we would call a tractor gun 

I would recommend a Mossberg 20gr youth , for a few reasons , they now have it with a 21 inch barrel that has choke tubes this is a convenient length for getting in and out of buildings , cars , tractors , and such the other reason for the youth is that the stock will be shorter this works well for people who are smaller as often women are how ever even I as a 6'2" man shoot them well. if you are taller a inexpensive recoil pad can be purchased to make it longer and soften the recoil
20 ga because it has less recoil than 12 in a gun of nearly the same weight but the payload down range is still very effective.
the mossberg for a few reasons the controls allow a right or left handed user to use it well meaning the safety is on the top , the price is good , parts are widly available , they are simple to work on , and they come pre drilled and tapped for optics , we all get old and there becomes a day when you can't focus on the front sight and optics make life easier.

my 10 year old son who is 5 foot even and 125 pounds shoots this gun well as do I 

when you keep the shotgun either fill the magazine with buck shot or 3 slugs and 2 bird shot (for snakes) , do not leave a round in the chamber because with a push of the slide release and a quick pump the first round is in the chamber , but it is safe to leave the rounds in the magazine while on the gator (this is how the police carry thier shotguns in the squad cars rounds in the magazine only) make sure to get a proper mount you can get the kind like the police cars have or make them but you want it held secure , check state laws if you drive it on the road at all.


now this was what you asked for 


what my other recommendation is , is for a small revolver or pistol to carry holstered on you because the best gun is the one you have on you when you need it. and revolvers do well with snake shot loads 2 rounds snake 3 of personal defense.


----------



## CJ (May 10, 2002)

Oh it's not my first gun. I've got my CCL and have a .357 S&W, a .40 Springfield Armory, a .22lr pistol, .22lr rifle, and a .7 08 rifle. I have never shot or owned a shotgun.


----------



## CJ (May 10, 2002)

I keep telling hubby I need a shotgun! Both my rifles are compact, the length of pull on a standard rifle is too long for me, I'm short. I also want this (shotgun, if that's the best choice) to be an inexpensive one, as it's going to get beat up on the tractor and the gator.

I can carry one of my pistols with me, but never do because it's so freaking hot here in AR in the summer and I can't handle wearing a belt and a holster in the summer.


----------



## flewism (Apr 2, 2007)

Then I'd go with a 12 gauge pump with OO on the gator. I picked up a winchester 1300 at a flee market for a buck and a half a few years ago, and it is my barn gun. nothing pretty,works good.


----------



## flewism (Apr 2, 2007)

Then I'd go with a 12 gauge pump with OO on the gator. I picked up a winchester 1300 at a flee market for a buck and a half a few years ago, and it is my barn gun. nothing pretty,works good.


----------



## Nimrod (Jun 8, 2010)

Present hubby with this argument; "I need a gun that will protect me from anything from bears to snakes to two legged varmints. They can't hurt me unless they get close so I need a gun that works close up. It needs to take cartridges anywhere from bird shot for snakes to slugs for bear." This pretty well defines a shotgun. 

Go to the gun club and try out different shotguns. Many have club guns you can rent and members will be happy to let you fire a few rounds through their guns. Settle on one that fits. It's hard to hit anything with a gun that doesn't fit you. Check out the full size and the youth models. Get a full size if it fits because the heavier gun will kick less than a lighter gun and you are not carrying it around so weight is not as much of a factor. A 20 guage with a slug will kick as much or more than a 12 because the gun is lighter. Go with a 12 if it fits and feels good. A 12 will give you a pretty good kick with slug loads but you can practice with lighter loads. If you need to defend yourself from a bear you probably won't be too bothered by the recoil from a slug load in the heat of the moment and it's better than what a bear can do to you. I like pumps because they hold 5 shells right off the shelf and you can get magazine extensions and add 2 or 3 more rounds. They are also very reliable. You don't want a jam when a bear is coming at you. 

I would make the first round a 1 1/4 oz load of #2 lead shot. This will dispatch a snake and hurt a bear if it is close enough. The other rounds should be slugs. If you are trying to stop a bear you may not have time to get more shots off so you want to stop it ASAP. 

I have had my Remington 870 since the early 70s. It has had a lot of rounds through it and it still works great. The Mossberg seems clunky to me. You can buy an 870 express for under $300 on sale. I would not be afraid to buy a used one in good shape and save a bit.


----------



## palm farmer (Jan 3, 2014)

I am a big fan of short shotguns, rem 870 or 1100 with a decent load is a excellent piece of kit, learn it backwards and forwards inside and out. There are some really good molle scabbards out there too that are perfect for keeping them from getting beat to hell on a tractor or gator as well


----------



## CJ (May 10, 2002)

Thank you all! I've thought for a while a shotgun would be a great source. I'll do some research on the models and types suggested. I appreciate it!


----------



## homstdr74 (Jul 4, 2011)

CJ said:


> I keep telling hubby I need a shotgun! Both my rifles are compact, the length of pull on a standard rifle is too long for me, I'm short. I also want this (shotgun, if that's the best choice) to be an inexpensive one, as it's going to get beat up on the tractor and the gator.
> 
> I can carry one of my pistols with me, but never do because it's so freaking hot here in AR in the summer and I can't handle wearing a belt and a holster in the summer.


You need a smaller stock, and those come in the "youth models". Rather than a 12, though, I'd go for a 20 gauge if I were you, a short (18"-21") barrel, with a five shell capacity. Load it with alternating #4 Buck, then a slug, then #4 buck, etc. Should do well for most anything.

Though a little heavy, the NE Arms has an inexpensive one. Better, check the pawn shops and gun stores for used ones. Remington probably has the best, though that might bring on some controversy from the Mossberg people.


----------



## palm farmer (Jan 3, 2014)

My wife is a smaller gal, I slapped a magpul stock om her 870 and she likes it a lot better plus it comes with a set of spacers so you can adjust for fit.


----------



## GREENCOUNTYPETE (Jul 25, 2006)

homstdr74 said:


> You need a smaller stock, and those come in the "youth models". Rather than a 12, though, I'd go for a 20 gauge if I were you, a short (18"-21") barrel, with a five shell capacity. Load it with alternating #4 Buck, then a slug, then #4 buck, etc. Should do well for most anything.
> 
> Though a little heavy, the NE Arms has an inexpensive one. Better, check the pawn shops and gun stores for used ones. Remington probably has the best, though that might bring on some controversy from the Mossberg people.


NEF new england firearms , makes or rather imports the pardner pump basically a licensed copy of the 870 since Freedom group owns Remington and H&R/NEF , the pardner is imported and does come drilled and tapped. I looked hard stil look hard at them every time I see one on the shelf , but my brother has bought 2 shotguns now that were deals on imported guns coming in under another manufacturers name , and now he has 2 through away guns if either ever breaks there is basically no way to get parts for them he has tried to get a slug barrel for both and was told neither are made any more , a talk about another matter with H&R/NEF customer service has also left me doubting they will be of much help on these if they ever break.

I grew up with remigtion shotguns , own some shot many i like them , but where mossberg won me over recently is the value added things , well and I found a heck of a deal on a used youth 20ga recently the first Mossberg for me 

I have lefty's in the house , mossberg top mounted safety is lefty friendly
mossbergs come drilled and tapped a 40-80 dollar value depending on where you have it done 
not everyone needs a shotgun drilled an tapped but we run slugs through ours for slug only deer season so we like it 
add in the starting price and the mossberg is 50 dollars less new but still a quality American made gun with plenty of parts available and it just made sense to me to try it I knew at the price i bought my son's for i could get my money out of it any time so there was no risk , and i found it shot well , he likes it and shoots it well so it is a good deal for me.

the 870 is a fine gun no argument i would be buying them if I could get them at the same price, but money makes a difference.


----------



## Lilith (Dec 29, 2012)

Just my personal opinion, but I like Rifles and pistols. Shotguns have their place, just not in my hands. I get by really well with a .22 revolver (1/2 bird shot - 1/2 regular copper slug) and my .223. I don't have to deal with bears but once every 5 or so years - If I did, I would probably carry something bigger than my .223. Coyotes and feral dogs are our biggest problem, and I find the .223 very effective.


----------



## wy_white_wolf (Oct 14, 2004)

If you can handle it, I'd recomend the Taraus Judge or S&W Govenor. First 2 rounds carry 410 shot shells for the smaller stuff. Load the rest with 45LC for the possiblity of bear if the noise from the 410s don't scare him away.

WWW


----------



## JJ Grandits (Nov 10, 2002)

A shotgun with the right load will drop anything on Earth. It has limited range, but anything that comes within 50yds. Lives or dies at your discretion. Handguns and rifles are great, but when the poop hits the fan nothing beats a shotgun.


----------



## paradox (Nov 19, 2012)

CJ said:


> Oh it's not my first gun. I've got my CCL and have a .357 S&W, a .40 Springfield Armory, a .22lr pistol, .22lr rifle, and a .7 08 rifle. I have never shot or owned a shotgun.


Oh in that case I would say buy some shot loads for your 357 or 22 pistol and carry it.


----------



## homstdr74 (Jul 4, 2011)

paradox said:


> Oh in that case I would say buy some shot loads for your 357 or 22 pistol and carry it.


Not to be too much of a naysayer here, but I once thought the same thing. "Snakeshot" seems like a reasonable load, even for an intruder. But read these comments from those who have used it:

http://www.thefirearmsforum.com/threads/snake-loads-for-home-defense.70458/


----------



## GunMonkeyIntl (May 13, 2013)

JJ Grandits said:


> A shotgun with the right load will drop anything on Earth. It has limited range, but anything that comes within 50yds. Lives or dies at your discretion. Handguns and rifles are great, but when the poop hits the fan nothing beats a shotgun.


/\
| this. x2

The other platforms (pistols, rifles) may do certain things better, but the shotgun will do it ALL - within its range constraints. Heck, they even make frangible breaching rounds and even 12 CS canisters incase you need to extricate a teenage daughter from the bathroom in a less-lethal manner.

With some practice with slugs, it can even be effective on human (sized) targets out to 100m or a little more. 

If I only had one, it would be a shotgun.


----------



## paradox (Nov 19, 2012)

homstdr74 said:


> Not to be too much of a naysayer here, but I once thought the same thing. "Snakeshot" seems like a reasonable load, even for an intruder. But read these comments from those who have used it:
> 
> http://www.thefirearmsforum.com/threads/snake-loads-for-home-defense.70458/


I read the first few and they all seem to be talking about it not being good to drop an intruder or small game (specifically squirrels) at a distance. I would never recommend shot loads from a pistol for those situations either. 

But when there is a snake very close, they work great. When you need a neighbors pesky dog to get the heck out of your yard, they work great. Those are the two situations the OP asked about. Now she also mentioned bears and an intruder but said those were unlikely events, so I wasn't addressing those. Both of those obviously require much more serious stopping power.


----------



## CJ (May 10, 2002)

I am going to research shotguns. Anything I'm worried about will be at close range. Also, shotgun ammo is still easy to find


----------



## palm farmer (Jan 3, 2014)

you wont regret it, before you buy troll through Gunbroker.com and look for whichever model you are leaning towards, and compare pricing... one kinda cool thing, you can pick up a Remington 870 used for relatively cheap online. and right now Wilson Combat has a 
Remington Steal Package gives you the opportunity to refurbish your already owned 870 shotgun to like new condition re parkerized and everything for 229.00


----------



## GREENCOUNTYPETE (Jul 25, 2006)

I keep seeing posts and such about bird shot , snake shot and such from pistols like the judge , or snake shot from pistols 

next time you see a rabbit or squirrel at 20 some feet shoot it with the snake or shot shell load , if it doesn't die like right now , that is the first strike against such a load , if you are able to recover the animal weather you have to go find your 22 and shoot it out of the tree or by some miracle you happened to kill it with snake shot from a 38 or such or 410 from a judge , skin it for dinner but take note of how deep the individual pellets went into the animal , If they weren't pass though do not expect that they will penetrate a human rib cage and find any vital organs 


why do 12 and 20 ga shot guns work form a 18 inch smooth bore barrel but 410 not work very well from a rifled barrel 

in a shotgun it is all about the pattern an individual pellet are not very powerful they weigh less than a pellet from a .177 pellet and are moving about the same speed , but when a near solid mass of them hit at once or even have a tight pattern , inside 21 feet most of the shot is still in the wad when fired from a 12 , 20 or even 410 smooth bore with a choke 
but when fired from a rifled pistol they do not have the time to get to full speed nor do they stay together , the rifling in the barrel spins the wad and when it exits the barrel it is a bit like a salad spinner it spins the shot out of the wad , we can see this with patterns as wide as a man at just 9 feet 

I could save you the trouble , I was at a freinds farm he had a **** in the corn crib corn crib , i grabbed his barn gun the **** was out side the corn crib and i let him have a aimed shot from 15-20 feet of #6 from a 20 ga shot gun a standard 2 3/4 game load I was close enough i could see the pattern from the fur move it was about the size of my hand it knocked the **** over and he got right back up , i hit him again and again and the 4th round in the gun was a slug that is when the **** stopped 

I will tell you ***** are tough , but not so tough that a aimed shot from a 22 rifle won't cause them to ball up , i have also shot ***** with 9mm pistol , 22 pistol , you need to hit the right spots or even a 9mm takes 2-3 minutes for them to stop , the right spot means you need to hit neck spin or vital organs to do that you need penetration I shot 2 ***** between the eyes with a CB short , they looked like they went right out but 10 minutes later were back up and walking that is when i stopped using CBes in a pistol to dispatch . it was going to make a bunch more noise to use high velocity rounds and I was going to have to be more careful around buildings but when a shot to the fore head is no good at 4 feet then it was time to change , I also prefer the ear but some ***** want to growl at you and stare you down. 

my point being that ***** are tough but a determined person is tougher just by sheer size and mass , wearing clothing your now talking an animal the size of a small bear or a big bear depending on where you live

If snake shot repels a criminal , chances are a complete miss or blank would have also they are in the not sticking around to get shot group

I also do not recommend 6 shot or smaller really nothing less than buck shot for personal defense . it can makes some nasty flesh wounds but it does not end the fight the same way as a round that can penetrate


----------



## JJ Grandits (Nov 10, 2002)

The birdshot debate for self defense has been chewed up and spit out more times then I can count. The average defensive shooting is at a range of 17ft. Take a load of 8shot from a 12ga. point it at a couple of half inch pieces of plywood about 17-20 ft away and let it rip. I've actually had one pinhead say it would simply bounce off his leather jacket. Keep in mind that at that distance the shot is still contained in the cup and is a 1oz. lead fist slamming something. You will be able to see through both sheets of plywood. Now take a heavy hunting knife and hit the plywood as hard as you can. Bet you didn't go to far did you? Gunblast.com has a video about using bird shot for self defense. It will answer your questions.
Personally I prefer #4 buckshot. 27 .24cal pellets make a mighty mess.


----------



## GREENCOUNTYPETE (Jul 25, 2006)

no argument at all it tears you up makes an awful mess huge ugly wound , a co worker of my was shot in the abdomen with 12 ga #6 shot from a short distance he still leads a normal life 20+ years later.

but my point was while 12 or 20 ga do work fairly well with bird shot , much better with buck , even though 6 shot on a **** takes a lot longer than you want to it does so much more than a very very wide pattern coming out of a rifled barrel that has spread to 3 or more feet wide by 20 feet in distance.
the snake shot and the 410 carry so few pellets and they spread so far so fast and loose energy very quickly , that they do not work the same as a dense column of an ounce or more of shot. 

and any one who things that they are an AWESOMELY powerful man stopper should try them out on something small and see how they actually work


----------



## unregistered41671 (Dec 29, 2009)

All I can say about the "birdshot vs buckshot" debate is that IF I am facing someone wanting to do harm to me or my loved ones, I want the shell that has the most absolute stopping power I can shoot from my shotgun. There is no sense in me trying to compromise. If hunting birds, I would have nothing but birdshot but birds are not a threat to me. I will have to agree with JJ. I do like #4 buckshot.


----------



## Roadking (Oct 8, 2009)

Rem 870 is nice, but the Mossberg 500 is already tapped for optics.

Just sayin'

Matt


----------



## montysky (Aug 21, 2006)

Going by the first post I would say a 12g shotgun would handle it. I would say that 99 percent of the time a black bear won't mess with you if you don't mess with it, so I am not that concern about bears in your neck of the woods but adding a can of bear spray can't hurt.


----------



## wogglebug (May 22, 2004)

I've recommended 20 gauge for lighter people for a good while, but I'm hedging my bets now. They make 12 gauge in "tactical" or "reduced recoil" or "managed recoil" or like that, loads now. Also skeet loads in light birdshot. Fact is, most cops used to be at least 6' and 200 pds. Now a lot of them are 5'4", 125 pounds, and prettier; some of those are female; and the police departments and the ammunition manufacturers have had to adjust to accomodate.

There's also the fact that weight tames recoil. A heavier gun, provided it fits the user (as in "youth stock" for smaller people) will recoil less hard than a lighter one. You've got a .357 - you must know that it's better to shoot a .38+P out of that than out of something lighter. Note also that a big man can shoot a small gun, but a big gun will beat up a small person just because it doesn't fit them, and they don't get a chance to control the recoil. Many 20 gauge shotguns are built lighter than 12 gauge, so they end up hitting the shooter at least as hard.

So, while 20 gauge isn't a wrong choice (it's surprisingly close to 12 gauge in performance), still a 12 gauge is more versatile. There's also the fact that 12 gauge is more common than 20 gauge, so both firearms and ammo tend to be cheaper. If you need reduced recoil, it's well worth while trying the reduced 12 gauge loads before you decide on the 20 gauge. It also leaves you a little more flexibility, as a bigger shooter using the same gun could use standard full-house 12 gauge loads, rather than the reduced recoil ones that equate to the 20 gauge.

One last point. Lots of people prefer the pump-action over automatic. They aren't you.
The auto bleeds off recoil to eject and reload, so reduces recoil. It is also simpler to use, which counts for a lot when you suddenly find yourself in a pressure situation. Not simpler built, and can't readily use black powder, but simple to use. 

Just safety off, then pull trigger, trigger, trigger, until it stops. 

A pump, it's safety off (and make sure you assess where the safety is if you need to accomodate a left-handed shooter), 
then pump (full stroke back - short stroke is bad news, then back again which is forwards again), then pull trigger, 
then pump (full stroke....................................), then pull trigger, 
then pump...................................................., then trigger. 

People have got themselves confused using a pump under pressure. One result was someone who kept pumping and forgot to pull the trigger. Heap of shells round their feet, and no "boom". Fortunately they had a partner. Simpler is better.


----------



## Nimrod (Jun 8, 2010)

wogglebug says;
One last point. Lots of people prefer the pump-action over automatic. They aren't you.
The auto bleeds off recoil to eject and reload, so reduces recoil. It is also simpler to use, which counts for a lot when you suddenly find yourself in a pressure situation. Not simpler built, and can't readily use black powder, but simple to use. 

Just safety off, then pull trigger, trigger, trigger, until it stops. 

A pump, it's safety off (and make sure you assess where the safety is if you need to accomodate a left-handed shooter), 
then pump (full stroke back - short stroke is bad news, then back again which is forwards again), then pull trigger, 
then pump (full stroke....................................), then pull trigger, 
then pump.............................................. ......, then trigger. 

People have got themselves confused using a pump under pressure. One result was someone who kept pumping and forgot to pull the trigger. Heap of shells round their feet, and no "boom". Fortunately they had a partner. Simpler is better. 

A pump is more dependable than a semi auto. In a life or death situation I'll take dependable over a reduction in recoil. When you get excited you could pull the trigger of a semi auto repeatedly and run out of shells. A pump may make you think before doing that. A pump can be almost as fast as a semi auto but you have to practice.

If you use a semi auto there has to be a round in the chamber in order to just flip the safety off and start shooting. The scenario you propose for the pump starts with an empty chamber. You have to release the catch in order to pull the forearm back to bring up a round from the magazine. Then slam the forearm forward and release the safety to shoot. The crossbolt safety on the 870 can be switched to a left hand configuration.

You can not pump unfired shells out of a pump unless you release the catch to allow you to pull the forearm back for each shell. You are not likely to wind up with a heap of unfired shells around your feet. The catch is released when you fire a shell so you don't have to do it manually.

Whatever your weapon of choice, you need to practice, practice, practice until the operation becomes automatic.


----------



## GREENCOUNTYPETE (Jul 25, 2006)

practice practice practice , shoot a round of trap or two first to learn the game a bit then if you can find a trap range on a slow day ask if you can for training buy a round of trap and shoot it all by your self if a range is slow they will often let you do this you load 5 shells if they will let you and hold the gun at low ready or ready position , safety on give the puller instructions that you will wave your hand when ready then you want the 5 birds in no particular order but wait till yo put the safety on and lower the gun 

tell them you are trying to get ready for pheasant season 

you should have the chamber empty and be filling the guns magazine as your walking from position 1 to 2 to 3 to 4 to 5 

this isn't self defense training or tactical any thing but it will get you very very familiar with your shot gun as will hunting with it 

when you do this several times you should get to the point you hardly even need to look at the gun you are familiar enough that you could load it eyes closed just by feel


----------



## alleyyooper (Apr 22, 2005)

Sounds more like skeet to me than trap. Trap you have yard lines away from the trap house not stations.

Our club has remote throwers your partner triggers for skeet, 5 stand and sporting clays. On the clays course you can throw all 50 birds from one station if you wish. You pay for 50 birds and the recorder shows which station you shot from so they/we know which station to go refill with birds.


 Al


----------



## GREENCOUNTYPETE (Jul 25, 2006)

the clubs i shot you had 5 stations left to right , they started at the 16 yard line but you shot 5 from each of the 5 positions , there were yards marked back to 30 but we almost always shot at 16

trap house in the center it could through 5 directions from hard right to hard left middle some right some left and was some what random or it could be made to send them all one way


----------



## Shrek (May 1, 2002)

Shotgun, rifle or pistol?

If you can afford it the best answer would be D) All of the above.


----------

