# Any carpenter/laborer union members here?



## bishopjoshua54 (10 mo ago)

I work as a laborer at what is considered an open shop construction company in upstate New York. All the carpenters for this company are union members however all of the laborers were non-union. I say all because everyone else but me quit for better jobs. I am wondering if this is even legal. Both in regard to New York law and the unions bylaws. 

The union rep shows up to the job and sees me doing work and knows damn well I am not a union member. Half the time I am doing what would be considered carpenter duties. I wear a pouch and basically am considered a really skilled laborer and "mostly" reliable cut guy. I walk the roofs and whatever else. Not quite a carpenter but better than the 19-year-old journeyman apprentice we just added. I think he and the boss have some sort of don't ask don't tell policy. The rep barely acknowledges that I exist that is how I know something was said. I know the union has lent him money to pay labor costs and they are pretty friendly. I get urges to walk up to the rep and ask directy to join the union and see what happens.

I get rate on state jobs which is basically what they get in their checks + I get the benefits portion that they get but in cash. Those jobs are rare. I only make $1 an hour less in my check compared to union laborer rate but I don't get benefits like retirement and healthcare like every last person on that job. After 3 years it's starting to eat at me but mostly my knees are giving out. I messed up my elbow and reaggravated an old shoulder injury. That should have been a worker's comp claim but I wasn't on the books at the time. Paid my own taxes that year. More bs. I really need healthcare to get them looked at. Any help is appreciated. PS this is not my first post it just won't accept my password


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## Danaus29 (Sep 12, 2005)

I don't know the working laws in New York but I know when an employer keeps you from advancing because they know there is nothing you can do about it. If you report them you get fired. If you complain you get fired. You've been there 3 years and still don't have the benefits everyone else has. It's time to move on. In Ohio even Walmart offers benefits.


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## bishopjoshua54 (10 mo ago)

Danaus29 said:


> I don't know the working laws in New York but I know when an employer keeps you from advancing because they know there is nothing you can do about it. If you report them you get fired. If you complain you get fired. You've been there 3 years and still don't have the benefits everyone else has. It's time to move on. In Ohio even Walmart offers benefits.


It's a tough situation. I like everyone I work with. I am good friends with the foreman. If my house is on the way to the job he picks me up. He did get me a 10% raise a few weeks back because he knows I am upset. He mostly plays dumb but he's in a weird spot between me and the owner. I haven't pressed all that hard because that's not my style. More of a subtle bitching here and there. And I like the owner. Nice guy. Buys us lunch at least once a week. Brings breakfast for days we pour concrete. 

Rarely gives you a hard time. Let's us charge any tools we ever need without asking. Checks always clear. Sends a guy to plow me after big snow storms. Never questions my hours. Brings equipment to fix my septic and doesn't kill me with machinery costs. I could call him if I was stranded and he'd come help me out of a bind. Laughs at all my jokes and honestly it would be very hard to get fired. But I also work hard and do my best to earn him money.


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## bishopjoshua54 (10 mo ago)

Danaus29 said:


> I don't know the working laws in New York but I know when an employer keeps you from advancing because they know there is nothing you can do about it. If you report them you get fired. If you complain you get fired. You've been there 3 years and still don't have the benefits everyone else has. It's time to move on. In Ohio even Walmart offers benefits.


Benefits are rare in construction up here unless you are in the union. I know a few non union companies that pay benefits but they travel alot. I agree though that almost every other employer in every industry offers benefits.


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## robin416 (Dec 29, 2019)

If my union carpenter husband was still alive he would ask you why you have not explored becoming an apprentice?

Having those credentials had my husband in demand job wise. He was offered a management position but turned it down since it meant sitting behind a desk more often than not. 

As a laborer unless you branch out further away from where you are now, that's all you'll ever be.


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## bishopjoshua54 (10 mo ago)

robin416 said:


> If my union carpenter husband was still alive he would ask you why you have not explored becoming an apprentice?
> 
> Having those credentials had my husband in demand job wise. He was offered a management position but turned it down since it meant sitting behind a desk more often than not.
> 
> As a laborer unless you branch out further away from where you are now, that's all you'll ever be.


I agree with you that a laborer will always be laborer unless they branch out. I am 42 years old. For the 20 years I have worked as my foreman friends saturday sidekick. Mostly just to hang out and make some extra cash. I kind of fell into this full time job due to covid and some mental health issues. 

I went to college and have a b.a. in business management and a b.s. in international relations. In an office I am highly skilled but I burned out. I really plan to move on in the next few years but for now the fresh air is doing me good. Benefits would do me more good however and was hoping someone may know the ins and outs of unions.


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## robin416 (Dec 29, 2019)

State labor laws are all different. NY's unions are probably more powerful than other union locals in the country. Hubs did a union job at a large chemical plant some years ago. The first union job he had held in nearly ten years. The hourly rate was the same as it had been ten years before. 

I'm not sure what you mean about ins and outs.


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## bishopjoshua54 (10 mo ago)

robin416 said:


> State labor laws are all different. NY's unions are probably more powerful than other union locals in the country. Hubs did a union job at a large chemical plant some years ago. The first union job he had held in nearly ten years. The hourly rate was the same as it had been ten years before.
> 
> I'm not sure what you mean about ins and outs.


By ins and outs I simply meant rules and regulations. It is very hard to find any information online and I can't call the union. Most online material relates to employers stopping union organization entirely and not just a single employee from joining everyone else in an existing union.


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## robin416 (Dec 29, 2019)

Since you are not an apprentice or a union member you have only you to get pay raises. Or push for some sort of benefits. The union hall is the one that does that for the members. 

Now that you've brought it up, I have never heard of a laborer being unionized. But laborers are necessary on jobs. Union job or not. What you should not be doing is any job that is that of a union member. 

I worked for AT&T on the administrative side. We were not union but all the technicians in every area were.


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## bishopjoshua54 (10 mo ago)

robin416 said:


> Since you are not an apprentice or a union member you have only you to get pay raises. Or push for some sort of benefits. The union hall is the one that does that for the members.
> 
> Now that you've brought it up, I have never heard of a laborer being unionized. But laborers are necessary on jobs. Union job or not. What you should not be doing is any job that is that of a union member.
> 
> I worked for AT&T on the administrative side. We were not union but all the technicians in every area were.


I have yet to see a union construction company that did not also have union laborers. That's what I am trying to find out. If that is even allowed. My job is like 50/50 skilled/labor. Half of what I do would be done by a union carpenter if I didn't do it. But yeah the last guy hired made a comment his first day about me doing certain job and laborers wearing pouches and they basically told him to mind his business.


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## bishopjoshua54 (10 mo ago)

robin416 said:


> Since you are not an apprentice or a union member you have only you to get pay raises. Or push for some sort of benefits. The union hall is the one that does that for the members.
> 
> Now that you've brought it up, I have never heard of a laborer being unionized. But laborers are necessary on jobs. Union job or not. What you should not be doing is any job that is that of a union member.
> 
> I worked for AT&T on the administrative side. We were not union but all the technicians in every area were.


The guy that runs the union hall is at our site weekly and avoids me like the plague lol. I have worked in many unionized companies and administration and management were always non-union. The reason being they are not part of the labor force and not covered under the NLRA. A carpenter and laborer are basically one in the same though and there is a much bigger divide in skills between an administrator and a technician.


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## Danaus29 (Sep 12, 2005)

As for union experience, my brother was a bricklayer and far as I know, is still a member of the union. I don't know how they work the insurance angle since he was basically a sub-contractor and responsible for his own taxes and insurance. Hubby was a union member, the Bakers Union, IIRC. You had to be a union member and pay dues for a year before they got you insurance. 

Have you looked on the Affordable Care site for insurance? It seems that you would be responsible for getting your own insurance if it isn't offered by your employer. You will have to have your human resources department fill out some paperwork to buy through the ACA site.


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## Wellbuilt (Dec 25, 2020)

I’m a builder in ny, you can’t work any where off the books legally .
on larger jobs contractors bring in nonunion people and there is a% 
of union and nonunion people slowed to work . 
They should be taking tax’s out of your check .
You should not be doing carpenters work we where working on a addition 
in a mental institution in Peekskill New York in 92 and we had no laborers ☹
So I organized all the crazy guys and started paying them with pizza and peer 👍
boy did we get in trouble when the BM caught a bunch of guy hauling dry wall 
in hospital gowns and slippers . 
Any way you need to get into the union and get your benefits . 
Ask some of the guys what you have to do . 
42 is a pretty old labor I’m 60 and do way more laboring then I should


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## bishopjoshua54 (10 mo ago)

Wellbuilt said:


> I’m a builder in ny, you can’t work any where off the books legally .
> on larger jobs contractors bring in nonunion people and there is a%
> of union and nonunion people slowed to work .
> They should be taking tax’s out of your check .
> ...


I never work off the books. I am a w2 employee. The first year I was not, however I paid my own taxes on wages.


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## Wellbuilt (Dec 25, 2020)

Hmmm , in NY you are not allowed to pay your own taxes . 
There is no way to be 1099 that went out years ago
To be 1099 instead of w2 you need liability insurance . 
You have to work for multiple people . 
You dictate your own hours
They can’t direct you . 
Where in NY are you ? 
The masons have a labors union
Carpenter have apprentices I think ? 
When I was in the Union in 90 I was taken in as a journeyman I was 30 years old and was very experienced . 
The contractor brought me in to do layout
So the plumbing , electric , sprinklers HVAC 
And the ceilings all worked out . 
We did a lot of hospitals . 
The contractor sponsor me , you must know a member of the union that can sponsor you ? 
or atleast give you a leg up . 
In the union the good guys always works. 
There is lots of work around and every one is looking for men if they don’t let you in after 3 years it’s time to get a new job. 
Guys are making 3 to 400 a day here for doing all kinds of stuff . 
I think you should just hang till about may
Once you are thru the winter there will be lots of work opening up . 
They may just can you on the spot .


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## bishopjoshua54 (10 mo ago)

Wellbuilt said:


> Hmmm , in NY you are not allowed to pay your own taxes .
> There is no way to be 1099 that went out years ago
> To be 1099 instead of w2 you need liability insurance .
> You have to work for multiple people .
> ...


Thank for the reply. The first year I did not get a 1099... I had actually established a company and was doing small jobs on the side while working for him that first year. Had liability. I just did a schedule c. Tax lady had no issue with it.


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## Wellbuilt (Dec 25, 2020)

I would try to get on a good crew before things go side ways . 
We have rough times coming . Good luck


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## KC Rock (Oct 28, 2021)

bishopjoshua54 said:


> I work as a laborer at what is considered an open shop construction company in upstate New York. All the carpenters for this company are union members however all of the laborers were non-union. I say all because everyone else but me quit for better jobs. I am wondering if this is even legal. Both in regard to New York law and the unions bylaws.
> 
> The union rep shows up to the job and sees me doing work and knows damn well I am not a union member. Half the time I am doing what would be considered carpenter duties. I wear a pouch and basically am considered a really skilled laborer and "mostly" reliable cut guy. I walk the roofs and whatever else. Not quite a carpenter but better than the 19-year-old journeyman apprentice we just added. I think he and the boss have some sort of don't ask don't tell policy. The rep barely acknowledges that I exist that is how I know something was said. I know the union has lent him money to pay labor costs and they are pretty friendly. I get urges to walk up to the rep and ask directy to join the union and see what happens.
> 
> I get rate on state jobs which is basically what they get in their checks + I get the benefits portion that they get but in cash. Those jobs are rare. I only make $1 an hour less in my check compared to union laborer rate but I don't get benefits like retirement and healthcare like every last person on that job. After 3 years it's starting to eat at me but mostly my knees are giving out. I messed up my elbow and reaggravated an old shoulder injury. That should have been a worker's comp claim but I wasn't on the books at the time. Paid my own taxes that year. More bs. I really need healthcare to get them looked at. Any help is appreciated. PS this is not my first post it just won't accept my password


I loved the union reps that came onsite to the job. Check out to make sure all the hand lines were on correctly.

And if they didn't like how the bosses reacted to unsafe conditions, they could shut the plant down. Worked with a lot

of union laborers at nuke sites...


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