# All our convenience garbage is coming back and lucky will force us to change our way of life



## Meinecke (Jun 30, 2017)

Def for the better
https://www.treehugger.com/plastic/...-imports-vows-send-back-countries-origin.html
Or, at the end we will sit on all the plastic we are pushing out right now to keep oil flowing...
It will def make us great landfills...at least the word great is in the sentence
No discussion wanted. just sharing the great news...we are not alone and have to play nice with the rest of the world...


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## AmericanStand (Jul 29, 2014)

Seems like a cup of water in the ocean but it’s a start


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## Mish (Oct 15, 2015)

I have a few insiders in the waste management industry. We're seriously about to be buried in our own recyclables, too, as countries that we typically used to ship them off to (to recycle) are finding it not cost effective anymore. China has pretty much stopped taking them.

Even here in ultra green California, while they still give everyone a recycle bin, most of that stuff is just dumped in with the trash when it hits the sorting facility because there is nowhere to send it for actual recycling. I don't know if that's public knowledge or not, but everyone in the waste industry is aware of the problem. My own recycle bin, which used to be the size of the garbage carts (you know, the big ones on wheels with attached lids), has recently been replaced with a cart about 2/3 the size of the trash cart. I imagine it'll be getting smaller or disappearing soon, unless we just want to keep up appearances.

It's going to be interesting to see how industries respond.


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

Mish said:


> It's going to be interesting to see how industries respond.


They'll find new ways to use the materials and create jobs here.


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## Fishindude (May 19, 2015)

I have properties in both Michigan and Indiana and both locations have "mixed recycling containers". I can dump my paper, plastic, aluminum, metal, plastic or glass in them. This stuff goes straight to the landfill and nothing gets recycled because it costs more to sort, clean and handle than the material is worth. These "recycling containers" are just a feel good thing for the communities to make them think they are behaving green. I would also suspect that communities have to have some sort of recycling program like this in place in order to be eligible for other state or federal grants.

Aluminum is really the only container material that has scrap value and makes any economic sense to recycle. Would like to see more items packaged in aluminum. Would also like to see reusable beer, milk and soda pop bottles like we used to use.


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## HermitJohn (May 10, 2002)

Y


Fishindude said:


> I have properties in both Michigan and Indiana and both locations have "mixed recycling containers". I can dump my paper, plastic, aluminum, metal, plastic or glass in them. This stuff goes straight to the landfill and nothing gets recycled because it costs more to sort, clean and handle than the material is worth. These "recycling containers" are just a feel good thing for the communities to make them think they are behaving green. I would also suspect that communities have to have some sort of recycling program like this in place in order to be eligible for other state or federal grants.
> 
> Aluminum is really the only container material that has scrap value and makes any economic sense to recycle. Would like to see more items packaged in aluminum. Would also like to see reusable beer, milk and soda pop bottles like we used to use.


I am old enough to remember when all pop bottles, etc were reused. It sounds nice until you get refilled one at grocery store with a cigarette butt or dead mouse floating in it. And anymore who wants the liability if they reuse a bottle somebody used to mix/store some toxic chemical before returning it for their deposit? I suspect liability alone would prevent commercial reuse of bottles like in distant past. Those olden days were back before so many toxic chemicals and those that now would require a hazmat suit just to handle the container, used to be told to mix barrel of it with your bare arm.

You are assuming using land and water and air you share with rest of planet, to dump your waste has no cost. In a crowded world there is no such thing as an area you can just dump on free of charge with nobody being affected. Everything has a cost. Dont want to pay that cost, dont make or buy it in first place.


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

I thought biodegradable plastics could be made from hemp.


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## reneedarley (Jun 11, 2014)

I have just been shopping ready for the summer markets (I sell ice cream) the spoons are plastic made from plants that can be composted, paper cups. Even the permanent markers are made 90% from reused plastic. Our local airport refuels the planes from fuel made from ethanol, (local wood) and processed butchering scraps. Our county exports electricity from water turbines, windmills and solar energy. Every 30 miles on all the highways there are electric points where one can charge one's car. All shops have bottle and can recycling whers one gets back a deposit., I believe plastic drinking straws and utensils are to be banned by next year.


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## shawnlee (Apr 13, 2010)

Bad things have been available thru out history,.....it is our choice to avoid it,...….but when you have way more people than needed and they are lazy and inconsiderate to boot......


Just consumers doing what they do,...choose not to be a consumer !


We have that one neighbor who`s trash/recycle is always overflowing each week when the trash goes out,......I am lucky to have 1/4th of the can full, they could do mine once a month and I would be lucky to fill it.


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## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

HDRider said:


> I thought biodegradable plastics could be made from hemp.


They can be, and they can be made from avocado pits and many, many other things. However, the new EPA is touting the benefits of fossil fuels by calling it "Freedom Gas" and "Molecules of Freedom" in order to make it more "American".


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

HDRider said:


> I thought biodegradable plastics could be made from hemp.


It can be.


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## mreynolds (Jan 1, 2015)

Irish Pixie said:


> They can be, and they can be made from avocado pits and many, many other things. However, the new EPA is touting the benefits of fossil fuels by calling it "Freedom Gas" and "Molecules of Freedom" in order to make it more "American".


It's not that I really liked your post but I just thought it was funny. I put some molecules of freedom in my truck on Monday but I can only be free until next Monday when they are gone. 

Will I be incarcerated on Tuesday?


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## mreynolds (Jan 1, 2015)

I was in the green building industry for twenty years. People don't care unless 
1. It makes or saves them money. 
2. They have to be able to do as little as possible. 
3. Preferably, someone else pay for it.


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## shawnlee (Apr 13, 2010)

Irish Pixie said:


> They can be, and they can be made from avocado pits and many, many other things. However, the new EPA is touting the benefits of fossil fuels by calling it "Freedom Gas" and "Molecules of Freedom" in order to make it more "American".



It`s not just the "NEW" EPA...….they were around in the 70`s when you could not see more than a mile in LA on certain days.


The EPA, a governmental agency, like many others usually mandate in a way that accommodates big industries that are critical to consumerism.


Not all plastic is bad and burning fossils fuels is not bad,...its the way we use them and volume in which we use them.


These agencies and these problems have been around since the 30`s,......they cater to certain groups and are part of larger picture of keeping the "System" going.


Anyone who has tried to go green has encountered this ……….going solar is cheap, its the hoops that cost, reducing the mcmansion house size is easy, which reduces usage of every thing, but doing it requires hoops to be jumped thru or flat out prohibited.

Once you start to do any of these things, it becomes quite apparent "They" do not want you to do them at all,...….


I could post endless pages of the absurd bureaucracy encountered at a city/state and federal level that make it clear they simply do not want to encourage it at all. Big business lobbies against it and everyone falls in line to keep the status quo underway.

Try it, call the city and tell them you are going green and want to turn off the electric to your home,...….you will soon find a no human habitation allowed sticker on the front door and not be allowed to live there. I could name hundreds of other road blocks that spring up.


Like I have stated many times, the idea of freedom is alive, just not soo much in practice,...….the entities that be want to look like they are in favor of green to keep public opinion high...…...which looks good, until you actually do it, then it is clear they do not want it done.


I have tried, encountered the roadblocks, asked the questions why and took time to do my due diligence to find the answers and where these mandates come from,which is a huge task,...….I could tell you, but you will not like the answers,...…...many problems are easily solved if it was not for these pesky answers.


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## gilberte (Sep 25, 2004)

Well there's a useful college course of study you probably either won't find at all or will be ignored by the vast majority: "Recycling and Reuse, Conservation of Natural Resources".


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## mzgarden (Mar 16, 2012)

Our area changed the contract so we have a new trash pick up company. They delivered huge roll around trash bins (only kind you can use because of their trucks) and an equally huge recycling bin to everyone automatically. The recycling bin costs a mere $8 a month extra, was optional service and you only had to make sure everything in there was basically clean and without food residues. I called -- what do you do with the recycling, oh, we um, well you know, it's recycling stuff, so we, um, well.......finally confirmed - dump in the landfill. Had them pick up the recycling bin the next day.


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## 101pigs (Sep 18, 2018)

Most people around here just dump it in the Mississippi. I think that is wrong i burn mine.


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## wy_white_wolf (Oct 14, 2004)

Irish Pixie said:


> They can be, and they can be made from avocado pits and many, many other things. However, the new EPA is touting the benefits of fossil fuels by calling it "Freedom Gas" and "Molecules of Freedom" in order to make it more "American".


Please show where the EPA has used the term.

WWW


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## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

wy_white_wolf said:


> Please show where the EPA has used the term.
> 
> WWW


Here you go: "Two Department of Energy officials referred on Wednesday to natural gas produced in the US as "freedom gas" and "molecules of U.S. freedom" in a press release announcing the expansion of a natural gas facility in Texas."

https://www.cnn.com/2019/05/29/politics/doe-freedom-gas-natural-gas/index.html

And another: https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-48454674


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## Meinecke (Jun 30, 2017)

Here...hahaha very funny...if they could they would put a flag on gas and petroleum haha
https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/mol...ment-rebranding-natural-gas/story?id=63366255
Very surprised and pleased with the outcome of this threat...
Burning, dumping, landfill...all no good options...
Not using/consuming and a circular system, that reuses instead of recycle(if even possible) is the goal.
Who needs a paper or foam cup at Dunkin for the coffee when you have probably tons of thermal mugs at home already...and the coffee iss even cheaper when you bring your mug(at least here in Jersey)...not getting why people get the cofe there and no at home where it is at least 100% cheaper, but that's a different story...
Bag of potato chips to a meal instead of fries/rice/potatoes...is a nightmare to anyone who can think...and would be probably laughed at in every other country.
Plastic straws and a plastic cup...really? Get glas in the restaurants/diner etc...So much to do, so little people with brains...


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

reneedarley said:


> I have just been shopping ready for the summer markets (I sell ice cream) the spoons are plastic made from plants that can be composted, paper cups. Even the permanent markers are made 90% from reused plastic. Our local airport refuels the planes from fuel made from ethanol, (local wood) and processed butchering scraps. Our county exports electricity from water turbines, windmills and solar energy. Every 30 miles on all the highways there are electric points where one can charge one's car. All shops have bottle and can recycling whers one gets back a deposit., I believe plastic drinking straws and utensils are to be banned by next year.


Where do you live?


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## Meinecke (Jun 30, 2017)

Oh...looks like a few people even think
https://www.treehugger.com/plastic/incredibly-simple-solution-plastic-packaging-waste.html


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

Irish Pixie said:


> They can be, and they can be made from avocado pits and many, many other things. However, the new EPA is touting the benefits of fossil fuels by calling it "Freedom Gas" and "Molecules of Freedom" in order to make it more "American".


We don’t farm avocado pits here in the US. 

The solution needs to win the market battle. Choices can’t be made by zealots.


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## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

HDRider said:


> We don’t farm avocado pits here in the US.
> 
> The solution needs to win the market battle. Choices can’t be made by zealots.


There is already at least one Mexican company making "plastic ware" from avocado pits. https://www.ecowatch.com/avocado-pits-biodegradable-straws-cutlery-2628165725.html

There's no reason a company in California, Hawaii, or Florida can't do the same thing. Hemp will work as well, it's just not the only biodegradable material that will.


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

Irish Pixie said:


> There is already at least one Mexican company making "plastic ware" from avocado pits. https://www.ecowatch.com/avocado-pits-biodegradable-straws-cutlery-2628165725.html
> 
> There's no reason a company in California, Hawaii, or Florida can't do the same thing. Hemp will work as well, it's just not the only biodegradable material that will.


Novelty versus mass production. 

Hemp has potential. Avocado pits, let’s see it compete.


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## po boy (Jul 12, 2010)

Irish Pixie said:


> There is already at least one Mexican company making "plastic ware" from avocado pits. https://www.ecowatch.com/avocado-pits-biodegradable-straws-cutlery-2628165725.html
> 
> There's no reason a company in California, Hawaii, or Florida can't do the same thing. Hemp will work as well, it's just not the only biodegradable material that will.


Finding enough pits would be a pitiful task.


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## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

HDRider said:


> Novelty versus mass production.
> 
> Hemp has potential. Avocado pits, let’s see it compete.


Avocado pits are already being used, while 100% hemp is still potential. Like I said before, hemp will work as well, it's just not the only biodegradable material that will.


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## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

po boy said:


> Finding enough pits would be a pitiful task.


Boo. Hiss.


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## po boy (Jul 12, 2010)

Some of us talked about plastic roads
maybe take a half ton or so of this stuff,a gallon of super glue and figure out how to make Corvette bodies out of it...


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

https://www.manufacturednc.com/Fiberon

"Fiberon is a leading manufacturer of composite and PVC decking, railing and fencing products used in homes and light commercial construction across North America and Europe. Through extensive product development and leading-edge manufacturing capabilities, Fiberon created the benchmark for innovative, alternative outdoor living products.

• Composite products are made from recycled, high-density polyethylene (HDPE) which includes plastic milk jugs, shampoo and laundry detergent bottles. HDPE has higher tensile strength for denser, durable products that also withstand higher temperatures better than lighter weight LDPE. Used with HDPE, wood flour is acquired from ground window trim, doorframes, lumber and cabinet pieces. HDPE encapsulates the wood to resist harsh weather, splintering and decay. 
• 100% of PVC material is reclaimed in our manufacturing process. 

*• Fiberon diverts over 34,000 tons of wood and plastics from landfills and incinerators each year.* "


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## wy_white_wolf (Oct 14, 2004)

Irish Pixie said:


> Here you go: "Two Department of Energy officials referred on Wednesday to natural gas produced in the US as "freedom gas" and "molecules of U.S. freedom" in a press release announcing the expansion of a natural gas facility in Texas."
> 
> https://www.cnn.com/2019/05/29/politics/doe-freedom-gas-natural-gas/index.html
> 
> And another: https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-48454674


So when did the EPA become the Department of Energy?

WWW


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## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

wy_white_wolf said:


> So when did the EPA become the Department of Energy?
> 
> WWW


It didn't, I made an error. Spokespeople for the Department of Energy made those statements, rather than the Environmental Protection Agency as I initially stated. 

Regardless of what agency said it, it's still absolutely stupid. Do you disagree?


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

Irish Pixie said:


> it's still absolutely stupid.


It's no more "stupid" than it is to make some big deal about the remarks.
Would you feel better if they had called it "Happy Time Dinosaur Farts"?


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## wy_white_wolf (Oct 14, 2004)

Irish Pixie said:


> It didn't, I made an error. Spokespeople for the Department of Energy made those statements, rather than the Environmental Protection Agency as I initially stated.
> 
> Regardless of what agency said it, it's still absolutely stupid. Do you disagree?


I see nothing wrong with the Department of Energy promoting energy independence. Different departments have different purposes and agendas. Making the statement that it was the EPA has different connotations than the DOE making the statement.

WWW


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## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

wy_white_wolf said:


> I see nothing wrong with the Department of Energy promoting energy independence. Different departments have different purposes and agendas. Making the statement that it was the EPA has different connotations than the DOE making the statement.
> 
> WWW


My error aside. DOE is promoting our "allies" independence from Russian fossil fuels. So you agree that the terms "molecules of US freedom" and "freedom gas" are apt? It makes a US agency look frighteningly stupid, in my opinion. Of course, YMMV.


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## emdeengee (Apr 20, 2010)

I remember thinking when the world began sending its garbage off to third world countries and China that the idea would work as long as there was something in it for those countries but also thinking that there was just way too much garbage and potential recycling materials being produced each day in many parts of the world for another part of the world to be responsible for cleaning it up. It did not take as many years as I thought it would.

The world simply needs to produce less garbage and recycle more. It does start at home but until manufacturers are forced to find alternate packaging or just reduce their packaging nothing will really improve. And of course find new ways to re-use all the recyclable materials. 

Since 2011 we have had a Blest recycling machine here in my city used at the recycling center. It is a Japanese invention that converts plastic back into oil. One kilogram of plastic back to one litre of oil. Works great. P&M Recycling installed the NVG-200 model (roughly the size of a pool table) for $175,000. The machine now processes 240 kilograms of plastic per day, about enough to continuously heat 70 homes in Northern Canada, with almost no waste byproducts. The technology will save P&M up to $18,000 annually on heating and labour costs. But it sure is not being used to its potential around the world. They even have a machine for home use.

Plastic is a great invention for many things. We will probably always use it but we sure can be selective in what we choose to use it for and what we choose to make from it. Medical devices are an example of using it for the best possible reason but really? - not using grocery bags and straws makes people hysterical and feel deprived ?


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## wy_white_wolf (Oct 14, 2004)

Irish Pixie said:


> My error aside. DOE is promoting our "allies" independence from Russian fossil fuels. So you agree that the terms "molecules of US freedom" and "freedom gas" are apt? It makes a US agency look frighteningly stupid, in my opinion. Of course, YMMV.


IMO, your opinion doesn't matter. 

If using those terms helps with us gaining energy independence for foreign sources, I'm all for it.

WWW


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## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

wy_white_wolf said:


> IMO, your opinion doesn't matter.
> 
> If using those terms helps with us gaining energy independence for foreign sources, I'm all for it.
> 
> WWW


I see. No matter what it does to our environment, no doubt.


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

Irish Pixie said:


> No matter what it does to our environment, no doubt.


You use petroleum products.
Doesn't the rest of the world also have that right?


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## wy_white_wolf (Oct 14, 2004)

Irish Pixie said:


> I see. No matter what it does to our environment, no doubt.


It's the Department of Energy, Not the Department of Green energy. There job is the advancement of all energies. Not just the ones you approve of.

WWW


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## IndyDave (Jul 17, 2017)

HDRider said:


> I thought biodegradable plastics could be made from hemp.


How does that work? Use them, smoke them, and they are gone?


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## Danaus29 (Sep 12, 2005)

Hemp, not maryjane. Hemp does not contain enough THC to give you a "high". It's use as a textile material has been strictly limited for way too long, IMO. 

As for re-using your own thermal or any cup/mug, too many places will not permit you to bring those items into their restaurant. I would take my own cup to be filled if places were co-operative. At least I know my cup would be clean.

Bexley, Ohio is instituting a ban on plastic flatware, straws and food containers. I wonder if all those fast food places will be moving out of town now.
https://www.dispatch.com/news/20190...bags-and-eventually-plastic-straws-silverware

We could get by with trash pick-up once a month too. Even longer if I could get the rest of the family to put used tissues and napkins in the wood burner instead of the trash.

Aldi and Sam's Club do not offer plastic bags to customers. They allow customers to take boxes that would otherwise be thrown in their compactors. I would rather use and re-use those boxes because they hold up well and keep bread from getting squished. Unfortunately I never have one when I need it and I keep forgetting my reusable grocery bags. I will have to make more of an effort to use my bags and boxes.


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## farmrbrown (Jun 25, 2012)

Irish Pixie said:


> So you agree that the terms "molecules of US freedom" and "freedom gas" are apt? It makes a US agency look frighteningly stupid, in my opinion. Of course, YMMV.


Hmmmmmm............"freedom gas"........."molecules of US freedom"...................
I dunno. I kinda like it.
Wish I'd thought of it.
I'm gonna try it out next time we have Mexican food.
My wife just fans the covers and cusses at me.
I'll try and appeal to her patriotic side.



Bearfootfarm said:


> It's no more "stupid" than it is to make some big deal about the remarks.
> Would you feel better if they had called it "Happy Time Dinosaur Farts"?


No. Definitely not.
That one has no future at all IMO.


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## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

Danaus29 said:


> Hemp, not maryjane. Hemp does not contain enough THC to give you a "high". It's use as a textile material has been strictly limited for way too long, IMO.
> 
> As for re-using your own thermal or any cup/mug, too many places will not permit you to bring those items into their restaurant. I would take my own cup to be filled if places were co-operative. At least I know my cup would be clean.
> 
> ...


NY has banned plastic bags as of March 2020, I imagine straws will be next. 

I need to start buying sturdy bags.


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## mreynolds (Jan 1, 2015)

Irish Pixie said:


> NY has banned plastic bags as of March 2020, I imagine straws will be next.
> 
> I need to start buying sturdy bags.


I wonder which NY'er will be the one to say..

"Well that's the last straw."


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## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

mreynolds said:


> I wonder which NY'er will be the one to say..
> 
> "Well that's the last straw."


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## wr (Aug 10, 2003)

Irish Pixie said:


>


I worked in a local grocery store a couple years ago and those reusable bags scared me. Most people have no idea that they need to be cleaned once in a while and I found myself being asked to place produce in bags with other decomposing bits of produce, meat products in bags that other meat products had leaked or meat/produce that soaps, body wash etc.

My personal favorite was the man who brought in reusable bags that smelled like skunk, because his dog had been sprayed and laid on them in his truck, who felt they were still suitable to carry his food.


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## Danaus29 (Sep 12, 2005)

wr said:


> I worked in a local grocery store a couple years ago and those reusable bags scared me. Most people have no idea that they need to be cleaned once in a while and I found myself being asked to place produce in bags with other decomposing bits of produce, meat products in bags that other meat products had leaked or meat/produce that soaps, body wash etc.
> 
> My personal favorite was the man who brought in reusable bags that smelled like skunk, because his dog had been sprayed and laid on them in his truck, who felt they were still suitable to carry his food.


Insert vomit smiley here! 

That's the reason you can't bring your own reusable cups into most restaurants. At least the plastic throw away ones are clean. The restaurant has no control over how other people treat their own cups. Even mine isn't all that clean after rolling around in the car for a few days.

Most craft or fabric stores carry washable reusable bags. But even then, if you forget about a wet one laying in the trunk of a car for a couple months it gets mold on it and those stains never come out. I have a nice cloth bag with mold stains on it.


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## emdeengee (Apr 20, 2010)

Sadly some people are just not clean. I lived in Europe and everyone used their own shopping bags or baskets. This changed to plastic bags after a while but has gone back to what worked for hundreds of years. Even in North America everyone used their own shopping bags and baskets. Cleanliness was not a problem for most and people very quickly get used to new(old) ways of doing things. Better than choking the oceans and littering the land with plastic bags.


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## emdeengee (Apr 20, 2010)

If the bag that became moldy was in the trunk of your car you may have to do a real cleaning of the trunk to get rid of all the mold spores. Otherwise they could just be transferring to other items. Cold does not kill mold spores but heat can so a really hot day with the trunk open (140 F or hotter) could help.


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## Danaus29 (Sep 12, 2005)

The car is long gone. A jug of washer fluid tipped and leaked all over then a jug of water leaked in it. That's not the reason the car is gone though. Lesson learned, we now keep liquids in buckets or tubs so any leaks will be contained.

That car and some others have removable carpeting in the trunk area which can be removed and hosed down at the car wash. We have done that before.


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## Mish (Oct 15, 2015)

Irish Pixie said:


> NY has banned plastic bags as of March 2020, I imagine straws will be next.
> 
> I need to start buying sturdy bags.


Yeah, we haven't had plastic bags here for a year or more? Can't remember when it went into effect, it's been awhile. I mean you can buy them at checkout but they're 10 cents a piece, and the weird thing is they're thicker plastic than the old bags, so if you're throwing them away as per normal I'd think it would be worse for the environment, but whatever. The upside is if you invest in sturdy (like canvas sturdy) cloth bags, they do hold a TON more groceries per bag. The big problem for me is remembering to take the dang things in with me, can't tell you how many times I've taken an unpacked buggy out to the trunk of my car and bagged my stuff there. I'm never alone, though, usually other people doing it too lol

Straws went out this year. You can still get them from fast food places but in sit-down restaurants you have to ask (because I usually carry my straw out of the restaurant and throw it out the window on my way home ), or they give you paper straws which are terrible. Someone needs to invent some good straws that come in their own carrying case like a travel toothbrush so I can put one more thing in my purse. Don't have enough in there yet.


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## mreynolds (Jan 1, 2015)

Mish said:


> Yeah, we haven't had plastic bags here for a year or more? Can't remember when it went into effect, it's been awhile. I mean you can buy them at checkout but they're 10 cents a piece, and the weird thing is they're thicker plastic than the old bags, so if you're throwing them away as per normal I'd think it would be worse for the environment, but whatever. The upside is if you invest in sturdy (like canvas sturdy) cloth bags, they do hold a TON more groceries per bag. The big problem for me is remembering to take the dang things in with me, can't tell you how many times I've taken an unpacked buggy out to the trunk of my car and bagged my stuff there. I'm never alone, though, usually other people doing it too lol
> 
> Straws went out this year. You can still get them from fast food places but in sit-down restaurants you have to ask (because I usually carry my straw out of the restaurant and throw it out the window on my way home ), or they give you paper straws which are terrible. Someone needs to invent some good straws that come in their own carrying case like a travel toothbrush so I can put one more thing in my purse. Don't have enough in there yet.


I'm going to invent a SoClean for straws for California. I'll be sure and have a label on it that says it causes cancer though. 

I had thought Cali banned bags a while back. I think they did in Austin in like 9 years ago. They are always so weird there anyway.


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## Mish (Oct 15, 2015)

mreynolds said:


> I'm going to invent a SoClean for straws for California. I'll be sure and have a label on it that says it causes cancer though.
> 
> I had thought Cali banned bags a while back. I think they did in Austin in like 9 years ago. They are always so weird there anyway.


It might make you a millionaire - stainless steel straws are really hot right now (don't ask me how I know). Just need some snappy case for them, I betcha there's a market.

Yeah, it's been a couple of years on the bags I think. I can't keep track of all the banned things anymore.


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## farmrbrown (Jun 25, 2012)

Mish said:


> It might make you a millionaire - stainless steel straws are really hot right now (don't ask me how I know).


They probably will be all summer, they'll burn your lips if they sit out in the sun too long.


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## Zoomyn (Apr 12, 2019)

Soda Fountains have been around a long time, they've tried all the gimmicks, there's always been metal straws - just now let's invent a kind that won't pierce the roof or back of the mouth if/when the unexpected happens... Don't I remember 'Safety Straw' being on package labels at the stores?


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## manfred (Dec 21, 2005)

In my area we have a smaller version of sending our trash to China.
The Cherokee nation has a huge landfill that takes the trash from all the surrounding states.
Note that it is far away from their headquarters so they are not bothered with the polution,traffic,etc.
It was put in a areawhere there are mostly poor folks 
It also brings them a lot of money that who know where the money goes.


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## keenataz (Feb 17, 2009)

Strangely enough, I was an ignorant liberal who thought when things went into recycling, they were recycled. It was not until a couple of weeks ago when an article appeared in the paper that the Philipim\nes was sending some of our "recycled" plastic back to Canada that I found out how naive I was.

So basically we are shipping our First World problems to a Third World country. How typical.


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## mreynolds (Jan 1, 2015)

keenataz said:


> Strangely enough, I was an ignorant liberal who thought when things went into recycling, they were recycled. It was not until a couple of weeks ago when an article appeared in the paper that the Philipim\nes was sending some of our "recycled" plastic back to Canada that I found out how naive I was.
> 
> So basically we are shipping our First World problems to a Third World country. How typical.


Yes, most of the feel good green movement is like that. If it doesn't make money it's scrapped. 

This is the main reason I'm against all the sky is falling "town criers". People like Richard Brandon, T. Boone Pickens and Elon Musk and others have done more than our government with less money invested.


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## FreeRange (Oct 9, 2005)

Meinecke said:


> Oh...looks like a few people even think
> https://www.treehugger.com/plastic/incredibly-simple-solution-plastic-packaging-waste.html


This is a great idea, and I hope they make it big enough to be competitive. The problem with most of the "green" things I see marketed is that they are too dang expensive for most people. I saw a woman on tv giving a speech about not using plastic, or maybe it was trash in general. She had a blog and I looked it up. Sorry, I don't remember the name, something about trash free or waste free. One of her claims to fame is that her family produces less than a pint jar of trash per year, and in the article I read, she blamed her son's friend for part of that trash because the friend gave him a candy bar. She took her cloth bags and jars to the bulk food store where she bought everything from flour to soda. She lived in CA where I guess more stores let customers bring in their own bags and jars, but that's not going to happen to any local stores near me. 



emdeengee said:


> The world simply needs to produce less garbage and recycle more. It does start at home but until manufacturers are forced to find alternate packaging or just reduce their packaging nothing will really improve. And of course find new ways to re-use all the recyclable materials.
> 
> Since 2011 we have had a Blest recycling machine here in my city used at the recycling center. It is a Japanese invention that converts plastic back into oil. One kilogram of plastic back to one litre of oil. Works great. P&M Recycling installed the NVG-200 model (roughly the size of a pool table) for $175,000. The machine now processes 240 kilograms of plastic per day, about enough to continuously heat 70 homes in Northern Canada, with almost no waste byproducts. The technology will save P&M up to $18,000 annually on heating and labour costs. But it sure is not being used to its potential around the world. They even have a machine for home use.
> 
> Plastic is a great invention for many things. We will probably always use it but we sure can be selective in what we choose to use it for and what we choose to make from it. Medical devices are an example of using it for the best possible reason but really? - not using grocery bags and straws makes people hysterical and feel deprived ?


Totally agree!



Danaus29 said:


> As for re-using your own thermal or any cup/mug, too many places will not permit you to bring those items into their restaurant. I would take my own cup to be filled if places were co-operative. At least I know my cup would be clean.
> 
> Bexley, Ohio is instituting a ban on plastic flatware, straws and food containers. I wonder if all those fast food places will be moving out of town now.
> https://www.dispatch.com/news/20190...bags-and-eventually-plastic-straws-silverware
> ...


I see people with their Yeti type mugs and tumblers in restaurants along the highway. I guess they are used to travelers. I've noticed that fast food restaurants no longer put napkins, plastic ware, and condiments within easy reach of customers, and some don't have straws anymore even tho it's not illegal here. I forget my canvas grocery bags a lot too, even when I've remembered to put them back in the car.



Danaus29 said:


> Insert vomit smiley here!
> 
> That's the reason you can't bring your own reusable cups into most restaurants. At least the plastic throw away ones are clean. The restaurant has no control over how other people treat their own cups. Even mine isn't all that clean after rolling around in the car for a few days.


A year or two ago, a new McDonalds opened here and they sold refillable coffee mugs (ceramic mugs) for $3-5 for the first week with a lifetime guarantee of free coffee as long as the mug lasted. Dh still has his mug and they don't blink when he hands it over for his cup of coffee.




Mish said:


> Straws went out this year. You can still get them from fast food places but in sit-down restaurants you have to ask (because I usually carry my straw out of the restaurant and throw it out the window on my way home ), or they give you paper straws which are terrible. Someone needs to invent some good straws that come in their own carrying case like a travel toothbrush so I can put one more thing in my purse. Don't have enough in there yet.


I was in a kitchen store at the outlet mall last week and saw both silicone and stainless steel straws with a cleaning brush and carrying case. I didn't buy any because I hate washing medicine syringes and droppers with those pipe cleaner type brushes. I wouldn't want to clean a straw every day. Now when mreynolds invents his SoClean straw cleaner that is solar powered (of course, can't waste electricity on it either), I'll buy them. Personally, I don't mind paper straws.


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## emdeengee (Apr 20, 2010)

We have thick and thin stainless steel straws and the suck is the same. We have them at home, work, in the car and in the lunch bags. No carrying case but that would be a good idea. We use plastic zip lock bags that can be washed. Of course you really do not need a straw for every drink.

I find it contradictory that so many people really admire the frugality and cautious way that the old folks lived by reducing, reusing and recycling everything (they really invented the R's of environment and frugality) and yet many of those admirers think nothing of using single use items. I think many do not realize that they all cost you money. Every shopping bag, straw or plastic bottle is paid for in the price you pay for items. Not to mention the pollution. My mom never bought a garbage bag in her life or wrapping paper.


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

emdeengee said:


> I think many do not realize that they all cost you money.


It costs more to produce and reuse glass bottles.


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

emdeengee said:


> I remember thinking when the world began sending its garbage off to third world countries and China that the idea would work as long as there was something in it for those countries but also thinking that there was just way too much garbage and potential recycling materials being produced each day in many parts of the world for another part of the world to be responsible for cleaning it up. It did not take as many years as I thought it would.
> 
> The world simply needs to produce less garbage and recycle more. It does start at home but until manufacturers are forced to find alternate packaging or just reduce their packaging nothing will really improve. And of course find new ways to re-use all the recyclable materials.
> 
> ...


Maybe I am not understanding this. Are you saying it has a 10 year payback?


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

Irish Pixie said:


> I see. No matter what it does to our environment, no doubt.


Are you saying you don't drive a car, or heat a house, or use plastic?


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## emdeengee (Apr 20, 2010)

Bearfootfarm said:


> It costs more to produce and reuse glass bottles.


And the weight also costs more to transport. But glass is easy to recycle and reuse so does not need to end up in landfills. There is always an exchange. Until plastic recycling is taken seriously (and there are already many businesses that are making the changes and making money) then all plastic is is garbage.


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## emdeengee (Apr 20, 2010)

We drive a car, heat a house and use plastic for many things because there is no alternative or even choice given other than plastic - but if there is we use it. Just as there are alternatives and choices to the cars you use as well as the heat and electricity. But we are frugal and conscientious in our use. The object should be sustainability and not polluting land, air, water.


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## emdeengee (Apr 20, 2010)

HDRider said:


> Maybe I am not understanding this. Are you saying it has a 10 year payback?


Yes. But it would be less if they had more plastic to process which actually has been the case over the years. And besides with time all inventions improve and become cheaper. It takes pioneers to try out new methods.


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## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

emdeengee said:


> We drive a car, heat a house and use plastic for many things because there is no alternative or even choice given other than plastic - but if there is we use it. Just as there are alternatives and choices to the cars you use as well as the heat and electricity. But we are frugal and conscientious in our use. The object should be sustainability and not polluting land, air, water.


Good post. Yes, it's absolutely ridiculous to even suggest, isn't it? We limit, but can't completely eliminate.


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

emdeengee said:


> But glass is *easy to recycle* and reuse so does not need to end up in landfills.


So is plastic if people don't throw it in the trash with all the other garbage.


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

Irish Pixie said:


> Good post. Yes, it's absolutely ridiculous to even suggest, isn't it? We limit, but can't completely eliminate.


You missed the point again. It takes something that makes economic sense to displace another product.


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## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

HDRider said:


> You missed the point again. It takes something that makes economic sense to displace another product.


You seem to be confused (and rude), just because someone doesn't agree with _your_ opinion/view/outlook etc. doesn't mean they've missed _your_ point. LOL


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

Irish Pixie said:


> You seem to be confused (and rude), just because someone doesn't agree with _your_ opinion/view/outlook etc. doesn't mean they've missed _your_ point. LOL


What did you disagree with?


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## Danaus29 (Sep 12, 2005)

I remember paper straws. I liked those straws, when the plastic came out I thought they made drinks taste funny. I would buy and use paper straws.

True, I often prefer single use food containers at restaurants because they are clean unless someone has dropped them on the floor. There have been too many times I've been to a restaurant (usually a buffet) and the dishes are dirty. I haven't been to a Golden Corral for years because the last time I went there was VISIBLE post washing food on the dishes yet people were still grabbing and using those plates! GAG!!!! 

Taco Bell recently went to recyclable plastic cups. I have found a use for them. The small ones hold a serving or so of many types of food. The large ones are very handy to use as mini greenhouses or microdomes for seed starting or rooting cuttings. I've got one over a hydrangea cutting on my dryer right now. We also re-use those cups and the straws for drinks when working in the yard.

Glass isn't getting recycled either. Most now goes in the landfill with the rest of the stuff in the bin.


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## emdeengee (Apr 20, 2010)

Bearfootfarm said:


> So is plastic if people don't throw it in the trash with all the other garbage.


Unfortunately that is a fallacy. Plastic is not easy to recycle - too many types. Not only is there nothing that can be done with some types but it also involves lots of sorting and no mixing of types which raises the cost. Fortunately scientists and inventors are working to find ways to re-use plastics or all kinds. And banning the ones that cannot be re-used is also an option. But the main problem remains - a ridiculous over-abundance of plastic in our lives.


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

emdeengee said:


> Unfortunately that is a fallacy. Plastic is *not easy to recycle* - too many types.


That just depends on how it's "recycled", and it's next use.
It's still cheaper and more practical than using glass for many purposes in the long run.


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## dmm1976 (Oct 29, 2013)

Not really following this thread but i keep seeing the title and it keeps reminding me that i usr alot of straws. 

So now im looking on Amazon for a metal straw set. Thanks!!


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

I cannot remember the last time I used a straw.


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## HermitJohn (May 10, 2002)

Depends on the lifespan of the straw... hate to see it banned.


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## mreynolds (Jan 1, 2015)

HermitJohn said:


> Depends on the lifespan of the straw... hate to see it banned.


That means no more hay rides this fall.


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## 1948CaseVAI (May 12, 2014)

Irish Pixie said:


> I see. No matter what it does to our environment, no doubt.


The environment is quite healthy. There is more available open space for landfills than we can ever use and only those who wish to exert control over others will deny that. As far as energy, it is a wonderful thing that we are pumping enough to be independent. Keep drilling, keep fracking, keep burning!


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## GTX63 (Dec 13, 2016)

My wife just bought some jeans made from recycled plastic bottles.
I thought they might be chaffing but the sure feel soft to me.


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## Danaus29 (Sep 12, 2005)

I've got a jacket made of recycled pop bottle material. It has held up to quite a bit of abuse better than any other similar jacket that I have ever owned. It was a freebee from a CocaCola promotion and I wish I had been able to get a couple more.


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## emdeengee (Apr 20, 2010)

We have hemp clothes and bamboo sheets and the fill and covering of a gorgeous duvet. Everything washes beautifully and is extremely durable and comfortable to wear and whether it is hot or cold the bed linens are extremely cuddle-some to sleep on and in. Considering that both hemp and bamboo are much more environmentally friendly to grow it is to be hoped that the increase in their use will allow the price to come down as it always does with new items.


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

emdeengee said:


> Considering that both hemp and bamboo are much more environmentally friendly to grow it is to be hoped that the increase in their use will allow the price to come down as it always does with new items.


Oil will still be needed for the foreseeable future.
Hemp and Bamboo can't replace most of it's uses.
You can't grow those crops without using oil.


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## gilberte (Sep 25, 2004)

GTX63 said:


> My wife just bought some jeans made from recycled plastic bottles.
> I thought they might be chaffing but the sure feel soft to me.


Dang! Most of the water bottles I've seen are clear plastic, hope they added a little coloring to the jeans mix


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## GTX63 (Dec 13, 2016)

I think the men's style has a cap instead of a zipper.


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## emdeengee (Apr 20, 2010)

Bearfootfarm said:


> Oil will still be needed for the foreseeable future.
> Hemp and Bamboo can't replace most of it's uses.
> You can't grow those crops without using oil.


I was not talking about hemp and bamboo replacing oil but rather cotton and many oil based fabrics. We still need oil and water to grow hemp and bamboo but you cannot grow cotton without oil and water either. And cotton is very environmentally demanding - 5,283 gallons of water to produce just one kilogram (2.2 pounds) of cotton. Hemp requires only one third, 1760 gallons of water to produce the same amount. 

Cotton is also a pesticide intensive plant to grow. It has a much higher environmental cost than hemp which requires fewer pesticides or fertilizers and no herbicides. ... Hemp will produce 1500 pounds of fiber per acre, whereas cotton will produce only 500 pounds per acre.

Bamboo can be a very sustainable crop; a fast growing grass, it requires no fertilizer and self-regenerates from its own roots, so it doesn't need to be replanted. When compared to cotton cultivation, which requires large amounts of water, pesticides and labour, the advantages are pretty clear.

And most importantly both hemp and bamboo fibers make beautiful fabrics and the fibers are stronger than cotton so everything lasts longer - which is why manufactures do not want to switch as their cotton products are going to wear out much faster and thus they will sell more.

All of this sustainability interest is really for the children and the future. We will probably always use oil but the real idea is to use less. How is that so difficult to understand?


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## emdeengee (Apr 20, 2010)

Canada will be banning single use plastics as of 2021. Considering that we use 57 million plastic straws a day and over 15 billion plastic bags a year it is a step in the right direction. Homesteaders always talk about the good old days but there is a lot of reluctance for change - especially if it inconveniences you even in the smallest way. This is something worth returning to.


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## wr (Aug 10, 2003)

emdeengee said:


> Canada will be banning single use plastics as of 2021. Considering that we use 57 million plastic straws a day and over 15 billion plastic bags a year it is a step in the right direction. Homesteaders always talk about the good old days but there is a lot of reluctance for change - especially if it inconveniences you even in the smallest way. This is something worth returning to.


I eliminated most plastics a long time ago because I really hate making trips to the local dump but I really wish something would be done about Tim Horton's and Starbucks disposable cups as well as disposable diapers. 

For some reason, people seem to enjoy stopping at the end of my road to enjoy the scenery and leave the aforementioned behind for me to clean up daily.


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## emdeengee (Apr 20, 2010)

There are other single use items that will be banned - list not complete - but cutlery and plates and cups etc will be banned or changed. As for disposable diapers and incontinence pads - that is a huge problem but I cannot see people giving them up. Their construction needs to change and hopefully it will. Not to mention so many condoms going down the toilets.

We had the same problem with people dumping at the end of our road and all over the forests and fields and ditches - and not just garbage bags but large items. This only happened when the local dump started charging huge fees to dump things. Dah. We already pay for the dump, compost and recycling in our taxes and utility fees.

The biggest dumping was animals. People just driving out to the country and dumping their dogs and cats. All of us in the area had lots of new pets this way.


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

emdeengee said:


> I was not talking about hemp and bamboo replacing oil but rather cotton and many oil based fabrics.


I see no reason to think it would replace cotton.



emdeengee said:


> Cotton is also a pesticide intensive plant to grow.


Most all crops will need pesticides if produced in meaningful quantities.
Cotton is a major source for things other than the fiber.
In fact, the seed is worth more money than the fiber itself.



emdeengee said:


> How is that so difficult to understand?


If those alternate crops were so great, people would be growing them already.
They were both used until they were replaced with *superior* materials.
How is *that* difficult to understand?


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## Mish (Oct 15, 2015)

emdeengee said:


> Canada will be banning single use plastics as of 2021. Considering that we use 57 million plastic straws a day and over 15 billion plastic bags a year it is a step in the right direction. Homesteaders always talk about the good old days but there is a lot of reluctance for change - especially if it inconveniences you even in the smallest way. This is something worth returning to.


See, the problem is the "single use" plastic ban. We've already done that in California, but they replaced the flimsy, easily broken down single use bags with plastic bags that are extremely thick - I can't poke a finger through it. So, I go to a store and if I don't have my own bags, I pay 10 cents per bag for these bags that seem like indestructible plastic. I almost never see people reusing those as grocery bags, I'd guess 80% of the time when I see people walking into the store with bags they're the cloth/canvas type. I see people walking out with them though.

I've been using canvas bags for about a decade because they hold a ton of groceries and are easy to carry = less trips back and forth from the car to the kitchen. Also - the single use bags are only banned in stores that sell food here. I can go to Home Depot and walk out with everything in a single use bag. I'm not sure how this makes sense. I don't love plastic bags (except for dog poop, different conversation), but the way we're implementing it just seems really stupid.


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## emdeengee (Apr 20, 2010)

People do not change easily including farmers, manufacturers and consumers. History has shown us this. Even before and during the dust bowl when farmers were watching their soil blow away they did not want to take the advice of scientists and chnge their methods of farming. The government had to pay farmers to do so. 

When you have monopolies on a product it will never be easy to replace the money making item with something else and of course there will be pressure against changes and those who want to steal your market. And in countries where the climate and soil is right for cotton but not bamboo or hemp you will have a lot of push back.

Nylon and polyester were not common at first, then they became very common and actually were very bad - but cheap. Over time the products were improved but natural fabrics are much nicer to wear and people prefer them so all the oil based fibers are used mainly in with the natural fibers for specific purposes - except in cheap clothing.


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

Keurig seems to be a huge environmental waste.

They are wildly popular.


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## emdeengee (Apr 20, 2010)

Mish said:


> See, the problem is the "single use" plastic ban. We've already done that in California, but they replaced the flimsy, easily broken down single use bags with plastic bags that are extremely thick - I can't poke a finger through it. So, I go to a store and if I don't have my own bags, I pay 10 cents per bag for these bags that seem like indestructible plastic. I almost never see people reusing those as grocery bags, I'd guess 80% of the time when I see people walking into the store with bags they're the cloth/canvas type. I see people walking out with them though.
> 
> I've been using canvas bags for about a decade because they hold a ton of groceries and are easy to carry = less trips back and forth from the car to the kitchen. Also - the single use bags are only banned in stores that sell food here. I can go to Home Depot and walk out with everything in a single use bag. I'm not sure how this makes sense. I don't love plastic bags (except for dog poop, different conversation), but the way we're implementing it just seems really stupid.




Not real banning if other stores continue to use plastic bags and the flimsy ones are just replaced with thicker bags. 10 cents a bag is not a deterent. $5 a bag is a deterent. The more it costs the more people will comply with alternates. Our grocery stores require you to pay for a grocery cart as a method to get people to return the carts to the stands - which are conveniently located all over the parking lots - instead of just abandoning them in parking spots. At first it was just 25 cents but that was not costly enough. Then it went up to $1 and $2. That worked.


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## emdeengee (Apr 20, 2010)

You can buy refillable containers for those single serve types of coffee makers. My husband uses the refillable ones all the time. No matter what the environmental impact or problem it seems that someone can figure out a solution. But people have to be willing and also able to see the problem.


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

emdeengee said:


> You can buy refillable containers for those single serve types of coffee makers. My husband uses the refillable ones all the time. No matter what the environmental impact or problem it seems that someone can figure out a solution. But people have to be willing and also able to see the problem.


I buy my beans at Sam's. The coffee row is about 60'. It used to be mostly beans, now it is 85% K cups. I get the sense most are not using the refillable option.


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## shawnlee (Apr 13, 2010)

emdeengee said:


> We drive a car, heat a house and use plastic for many things because there is no alternative or even choice given other than plastic - but if there is we use it. Just as there are alternatives and choices to the cars you use as well as the heat and electricity. But we are frugal and conscientious in our use. The object should be sustainability and not polluting land, air, water.



Plenty of alternatives,...you just have to be willing to do it.

I have friends out here that do not own cars,...lots of them...….the ones that do are electric charged from solar on site.

They live close to work and go to the grocery store on bike as part of the daily routine.


Its all within a couple miles,.......they eat fresh food and fresh breads, make very little waste at all,...soo little, they do not even have trash service, we have public cans all over town, so a small plastic bag sized trash run every few days to a week.


They seldom turn on the electric , sit outside around a fire in the evening etc etc etc.


I have picked up some habits from them..........


I drive a internal combustion vehichle , but average about 3,000 miles per year. If I had a fireplace, I would burn all the carboard and paper in the winter. Before I got my home theater installed my electric bill was around 35 bucks a month, now it is closer to 60 bucks. I use less than 200 gallons of water a month and my natural gas usage is less than the 5 buck service charge for having service.


I live in a 480 square foot house with no heater and no central air............


When I build my new house in kansas it will have foot thick R-40 plus walls , R-60 attic and use very little power,....approx 10,000 btuh heating and approx 6,000 btu cooling. To offset the minimal amount I use, I will be doing grid tied solar and wind. I would do it here, but the insane laws prevent it due to making it cost way way way more than it should.


I use about 8kw a day, so based on a 4 hour solar day that means about 2kw worth of panels about 6 panels, will zero me out most days, couple that with a 1kw wind turbine since the wind never stops in kansas and I should be at virtually no net grid usage.


All the mechanisms exist, you just have to want to do it.....but humans hate change...…


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## shawnlee (Apr 13, 2010)

HDRider said:


> I buy my beans at Sam's. The coffee row is about 60'. It used to be mostly beans, now it is 85% K cups. I get the sense most are not using the refillable option.



K-cups are the refillable option...….


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

shawnlee said:


> K-cups are the refillable option...….


Oh, sorry. Whatever those plastic things are then. Almost totally displaced beans, and ground coffee.


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## keenataz (Feb 17, 2009)

wr said:


> I eliminated most plastics a long time ago because I really hate making trips to the local dump but I really wish something would be done about Tim Horton's and Starbucks disposable cups as well as disposable diapers.
> 
> For some reason, people seem to enjoy stopping at the end of my road to enjoy the scenery and leave the aforementioned behind for me to clean up daily.



We are the exact same. At the end of our road is an old gravel pit. We find many plastics there, including one that is single use, if you get my meaning.


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## sweetbabyjane (Oct 21, 2002)

wr said "For some reason, people seem to enjoy stopping at the end of my road to enjoy the scenery and leave the aforementioned behind for me to clean up daily."

You might try putting up a big garbage can with a target painted on its side. Chain it to a stake in the ground. Make a game of it and they might play along. Otherwise, you are just training them to leave their garbage for you to pick up.

Just a thought,
SBJ


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## IndyDave (Jul 17, 2017)

sweetbabyjane said:


> wr said "For some reason, people seem to enjoy stopping at the end of my road to enjoy the scenery and leave the aforementioned behind for me to clean up daily."
> 
> You might try putting up a big garbage can with a target painted on its side. Chain it to a stake in the ground. Make a game of it and they might play along. Otherwise, you are just training them to leave their garbage for you to pick up.
> 
> ...


That, or use THEM for targets. After all, rotten eggs have to go someplace!


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