# Which state is best to homestead and be self-sufficient?



## idlehands211 (Oct 20, 2013)

For reasons I will not bore you with I have decided to take the plunge and homestead. My goal is to purchase a plot of land, build a small cabin, and become completely self-sufficient. This would include a having a garden, a solar power system, and preferably a clean water source nearby. Some timber on the land would also be a plus.

In my search for land I have been mainly looking in Oregon and northern California. Which state (any of the lower 48) would be best for what I want to do? I am trying to take into account all factors including taxes and any state stipulations I might have to deal with. 

- Please be patient with my replies. I only use the internet about once per week.


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## Bellyman (Jul 6, 2013)

If you want to stay in the west, I might suggest you look at Idaho and Utah as possible places for a homestead. I suspect they may be a lot less inclined to want to micromanage your cabin building project. They are also two states that come recommended highly in a book called, "Strategic Relocation". Wouldn't hurt to pick up a copy if you want to explore some info on various states and how friendly they might be to relocate to or to live in. No, it's not the end word on all states, but it has a lot of info that can be useful, some of which may or may not be relevant to you personally. It's worth seeing if your local library has a copy. 

Complete self sufficiency is a wonderful goal but one you'll probably never reach. Not too many people can build their own solar panels or batteries. Not too many people can make all of their own nails and screws, build their own guns, grow gunpowder in their gardens, make their own cloth and then use that to make their own clothes, etc, etc. That's not to say that you can't do a LOT to minimize your reliance on goods and services from outside of your homestead. If you have a decent piece of land and adequate water, you can grow most of your own food. That means a lot. If you have no debt and no need for much cash, that means a lot. If you're healthy and don't need a lot of medical care, that means a lot. If you are physically capable and have the skills to garden and build and repair stuff, you'll have the ability to go a long way towards self sufficiency. 

If you've just read some books, you might want to start with maybe a small garden someplace and see how that goes, building on that. 

Good luck!


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## DEKE01 (Jul 17, 2013)

Florida was the right one for us. If you like cold weather you can get some great prices an hour from Tallahassee and have a short winter, rolling hills, clay soil, 8 - 9 month gardening. If you like it warmer, head south and the soils become sandier, you can garden year round once you get to Palm Beach and south, but the prices go up. 

Florida has a right to farm law, low taxes, and a less than average intrusive gov't.


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## simi-steading (Sep 27, 2012)

Depends on what part of the country you like best, and what you are looking for.. 

We chose WV for the for the following reasons... 

Very cheap land tax, no permits needed to build.. very little local government.. Lots of running water, a whole lot of great hunting, very fertile soil where we bought, water straight fromt he ground... got lucky with free gas out of a well for winter heating and all cooking and such.. 

Not too dry, not normally too wet... um... lots of other great reasons.. Oh. no tax on groceries... and still more.. .


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## ||Downhome|| (Jan 12, 2009)

Not to bust bubbles but you will never be "completely self-sufficient"...

No one is, you may come close, which is good but very few people do so.

Farm family's where large for a reason, more hands make the work go by faster.

There is also a reason for the Farm Flight of the Early century... Life was easier in the city.

To come close to full sufficiency your going to be working around the clock. Unless you rethink what your needs are , a meager life takes less work then a enriched one.

Where ever you go Taxes are Inevitable, so that would be one priority in my search.
Another ***** in the self sufficiency, besides taxes you'll need cash for other things from time to time, its just impossible to do everything yourself. Barter is alive and well in places but most folks prefer cash cause thats what the tax man and the big stores take.

I also do not want to go anywhere arid and prone to drought.
Out west they have strict water laws.

Thats the other side of the coin is I don't want to be in a law repressed area either.
(not that Michigan isn't!)

Climate well I like 4 seasons, each one signals the new jobs needing to be done.

Best place to Homestead really depends on your wants more then anything.

I'd want it close to family and Friends, a safety nets important, and well the kindness of strangers may come in to play, I would not count on it.
Due to the economy here many of my Friends have moved, only to find similar in the new locations and have no support system and are stranded.

I learned late in life many things that I thought where necessary are nothing more then wants, and you can live very well with out.
Also society puts a certain amount of pressure to live a certain way.
If you have kids or may have kids, your life style could come under fire from government officials.

My advice start slow, don't jump into it, start living how you plan now, do what you can with out taking any skin off your nose. 
start developing the skill set and knowledge you'll need.
Also acquire tools you'll need, Buy used. I have a shops worth of tools that I paid a percentage on.
Had I been "needing" them, well I would not of had the luxury of waiting on a deal.

Can you make due with out? Lord knows I have, but if you have the right tools for the job , life's becomes a little easier.

I was informed last night by my cousins kid , the farm he was buying is getting yanked out from under him. 
He put a substantial amount into it, on a lease to buy contract, guy now has another buyer... 
I had cautioned him to move slow and avoid it, but he plowed head first into it.

Had he taken that money and time,and used it differently he would be far ahead of the game. 

Lifes not easy what ever you do, and you have to take chances, but a hedged bet better then a easy pick.

I'm fond of sayings, ones "always under promise, and over deliver" in essence set you sites low and if for what ever reason you can only achieve that little goal, much easier on the soul then being crushed by a defeat. Life is riddled with such.
But when you accomplish more then you set out to do, well you will be on cloud nine.

One more saying for you "the grass is always greener on the other side"

Again not discouraging only stressing caution, what you propose is most likely a huge lifestyle change.

best of luck on your endeavors!


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## Patchouli (Aug 3, 2011)

If you want less government interference and lower taxes, etc. I would recommend a southern state. The middle band of the country also offers a more moderate climate which makes off grid living easier, no long harsh winters and not overly hot summers either. There is also plenty of cheap land, plenty of wooded property, and plenty of counties where you build just about anything and live in it without any interference. 

What is your vision of self sufficient? How do you foresee raising the funds to pay for taxes and necessities?


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## idlehands211 (Oct 20, 2013)

First let me thank everyone for the advice, suggestions, and precautions. I realize complete self-sufficiency is very hard to obtain. I expect certain things will always have to be purchased, and my goal would be to minimize these things as much as possible. The yearly taxes are what concern me the most. I would like to put my land to work for me in raising these funds, but the only ideas that have come to me so far are excess solar power sold back to the grid (not sure how profitable this is), and farming. I am not adverse to hard work... in fact I prefer it. I'm looking forward to putting my labor into something I can be truly proud of.


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## ||Downhome|| (Jan 12, 2009)

Some places they only credit you for energy put back into the grid.

Our green energy program blows.

Cost YOU to tie into the Grid and they only credit you, if you have a surplus thats not use they take your credit.

Oh ya they expect a 30 year contract to extend these "BENEFITS"... 

I said no thanks...

Honestly Michigan is not that great of a state for Solar or Wind, Forget setting up micro hydro too... 

Really I think in the long run, its better to go grid if possible.

Most cases less out of pocket and its a wash eventually.

Now if it was not available (grid power) or it was cost prohibitive, then yup thats the way to go.

Why not stay in New York? Depending on where you locate you would have access to various markets for produce and goods you could produce.

Honestly Taxes are the smallest expense you will pay on a modest homestead.


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## Patchouli (Aug 3, 2011)

idlehands211 said:


> First let me thank everyone for the advice, suggestions, and precautions. I realize complete self-sufficiency is very hard to obtain. I expect certain things will always have to be purchased, and my goal would be to minimize these things as much as possible. The yearly taxes are what concern me the most. I would like to put my land to work for me in raising these funds, but the only ideas that have come to me so far are excess solar power sold back to the grid (not sure how profitable this is), and farming. I am not adverse to hard work... in fact I prefer it. I'm looking forward to putting my labor into something I can be truly proud of.


In that case you will definitely want to look for an area with the lowest possible property taxes.  The West coast is known for being high on taxes. 

I know a lot of people out here where I am earn a living from a variety of odd jobs, collecting scrap, selling some vegetables, firewood etc. I know other people who make their money from selling crafts on Etsy or Ebay or in small touristy type shops that focus on local items.


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## a'ightthen (Mar 17, 2012)

idlehands211 said:


> Which state (any of the lower 48) would be best for what I want to do?


 That would be the one in which your heart lies - I do not think that it is possible to move to Happyville.

One can try out many places ... but can only find content within.


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## hmsteader71 (Mar 16, 2006)

Definitely NOT Illinois. We live in town and our property taxes are very low but we have friends who live 40 minutes North of us, in the country, and theirs are over $4000 a year.


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## wwubben (Oct 13, 2004)

Why do you want solar panels?You can not be self sufficient if you have electricity on the place.Heat and cook with wood and pump water by hand or have a spring.Save seeds and gather.Those are the things you need to do.


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## IowaLez (Mar 6, 2006)

If you want to do your own thing and not be bothered by local building depts and permits, and have lower taxes, NorCal and Oregon are NOT your place!

In either place you will pay too much money for any land. And the building depts and permits will kill you. The taxes are high in both places, the cost of living is high, and you don't have much freedom. Oregon is the same.

My son's Dad has lived for 40 years without building permits and such in the Medocino Coast area, in the forest, and one angry renter neighbor (mentally ill) turned in all his neighbors to the Bldg dept for one thing or another. It has been a year and he is still having to deal with the dept. Even tho he had a legal, permitted septic system that was fine for all that time, the inspector decided the whole thing had to be replaced for no reason other than he wanted to be a jerk and put some one's chain. It has been one thing or another just going on and on, and they threatened him with a $4500 fine per DAY it wasn't fixed to code. And NorCal is corrupt government at it's best.


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## thestartupman (Jul 25, 2010)

I lived in the Portland Oregon/ Vancouver Washington area, and I can tell you first hand that the government regulations are bad. The property prices are high, and the taxes are high. I did a lot of research and narrowed it down toTN, and MO. I finally moved to MO, and love it here. Taxes are low, property prices are low. There is sales tax on everything, including food. I figure the more I become self efficient the less I will pay in sales tax any way. One of the best things I like about it is the fact there are building permits in most counties.


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## chuckhole (Mar 2, 2006)

Texas. Do a search on cost of living, land values, property/sales/income taxes, etc. Yes I AM prejudiced by the fact that I am a native Texan but there is a reason I have not left.

The largest wind power farm in the US is here in Texas. Some of the best medical centers in the world are here in Texas. We get lots of sun for solar energy. Plenty of cattle here and it is easy to buy and sell. And here in the south, we have two growing seasons. Just don't expect to have any fruit trees that require lots of cold days because we don't get that many but then again, who really wants that much snow?


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## Seeria (Jul 21, 2006)

thestartupman said:


> One of the best things I like about it is the fact there are building permits in most counties.


Was that typed correctly? You like the building permits? What county are you in?


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## ET1 SS (Oct 22, 2005)

Everyone has different opinions. Few of us agree on this topic.

I farmed in California, and owned homes in various places. I chose Maine.

After 7 years of homesteading here, I am still happy with my choice.


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## DEKE01 (Jul 17, 2013)

chuckhole said:


> Texas. Do a search on cost of living, land values, property/sales/income taxes, etc. Yes I AM prejudiced by the fact that I am a native Texan but there is a reason I have not left.
> 
> The largest wind power farm in the US is here in Texas. Some of the best medical centers in the world are here in Texas. We get lots of sun for solar energy. Plenty of cattle here and it is easy to buy and sell. And here in the south, we have two growing seasons. Just don't expect to have any fruit trees that require lots of cold days because we don't get that many but then again, who really wants that much snow?


Universities of FL and, I think, AR and MS have done a lot of work to develop "northern" fruit trees that do well in warmer winters. They have apples, pears, peaches, plums, that require less than 800 and some as few as 200 chill hours (less than 45F as I recall). UF has also developed citrus that can take the frost and will do well in the northern parts of Florida and even into GA. SO there is a ever widening area that can grow citrus, pome and prunus. I'm planting them all.


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## ET1 SS (Oct 22, 2005)

DEKE01 said:


> Universities of FL and, I think, AR and MS have done a lot of work to develop "northern" fruit trees that do well in warmer winters. They have apples, pears, peaches, plums, that require less than 800 and some as few as 200 chill hours (less than 45F as I recall). UF has also developed citrus that can take the frost and will do well in the northern parts of Florida and even into GA. SO there is a ever widening area that can grow citrus, pome and prunus. I'm planting them all.


Apples, pears, plums, cherries have always been able to grow here in Maine.

There are a lot of people who have been very successful with peaches here too.

I have lemons, figs and olive trees.


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## SimplerTimez (Jan 20, 2008)

idlehands211 said:


> First let me thank everyone for the advice, suggestions, and precautions. I realize complete self-sufficiency is very hard to obtain. I expect certain things will always have to be purchased, and my goal would be to minimize these things as much as possible. T*he yearly taxes are what concern me the most. * I would like to put my land to work for me in raising these funds, but the only ideas that have come to me so far are excess solar power sold back to the grid (not sure how profitable this is), and farming. I am not adverse to hard work... in fact I prefer it. I'm looking forward to putting my labor into something I can be truly proud of.


NW TN land taxes for 6 acres, house and barn are 282.00 year. You have to pay the volunteer FD 50.00 a year if you want them to put out a fire on your house.
Groceries are taxable. Neighbors are good. Not many jobs. No State Income tax. Some areas are rather lackadaisical about permits and such, but I personally never built anything. Good sun exposure for solar, water is fairly plentiful and there are good clean and cold wells.


~ST


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## DEKE01 (Jul 17, 2013)

ET1 SS said:


> Apples, pears, plums, cherries have always been able to grow here in Maine.
> 
> There are a lot of people who have been very successful with peaches here too.
> 
> I have lemons, figs and olive trees.


no thanks. I don't do cold and neither do oranges and grapefruits.


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## Twobottom (Sep 29, 2013)

idlehands211 said:


> First let me thank everyone for the advice, suggestions, and precautions. I realize complete self-sufficiency is very hard to obtain. I expect certain things will always have to be purchased, and my goal would be to minimize these things as much as possible. The yearly taxes are what concern me the most. I would like to put my land to work for me in raising these funds, but the only ideas that have come to me so far are excess solar power sold back to the grid (not sure how profitable this is), and farming. I am not adverse to hard work... in fact I prefer it. I'm looking forward to putting my labor into something I can be truly proud of.


First let me say that anyone who says complete self sufficiency is "impossible" is 100% wrong. There are many examples of complete or near complete self sufficiency. Here is a family who lived completely cut off from the outside world for forty years; http://www.smithsonianmag.com/histo...ontact-Unaware-of-World-War-II-188843001.html

^^ This does absolutely prove, beyond any doubt that complete self sufficiency is possible. If you read, you will note that it is also very very difficult, and probably not preferable to most people.

How can you make your property taxes of of your land? Well obviously you are going to have to market SOMETHING. You can farm, you can cut and sell firewood, you can go into business marketing some skills you might have, or you might get a part time job, or seasonal job. There are some big benefits to each and some drawbacks as well. Starting a small business enterprise might take time to develop and in the mean time you are still going to need money for those taxes. I think there are nice advantages to have=ing a part time or seasonal job because you will meet local people and form relationships. This is especially important to a new person moving to a small rural area.

The people I met while working my part time job in town became my friends, I met my wife there, I got to know my neighbors, and many of my customers are people that I met. When the time was right and I started producing more I went full time homesteader. The wife still works part time at the same store and that money is important to us. Just my 2 cents worth, good luck!


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## TheMartianChick (May 26, 2009)

When looking for a place to homestead, we did a lot of research. We want to have two places: One in NY and another in a warmer climate.

We started with the lists that you can find online. They are usually found in articles titled, 'The 10 Best States to Retire In,' and the like. We searched for best places to raise a family, best places to retire, best places with lowest taxes, best places to age, lowest cost of living, etc... You can often find similar lists compiled for individual states. Some of the criteria didn't really apply to us, but we were able to spot some trends and prioritize what was important to us. 

For our NY home, we wanted to be close to family. We discovered that the counties that surround us have lower taxes, so we are actively looking for something outside of our county. Since we won't be here year round, we wanted to be able to install a lot of permaculture, like fruit, nuts and asparagus. We'd also like to have a stocked pond. We expect to be here during the full planting and harvesting season, but wanted to make sure that we'd have a crop of SOMETHING even if we weren't. The crop would probably cover the taxes if we needed it to, but we have outside income that is not tied to employment.

We are still considering Florida for the other home and plan to do something similar. We'd like to have fruit trees and a stocked pond on the premises. We won't be able to have any livestock until we eventually settle down in one place or the other. 

The one thing that I would caution against is relying on any ONE source of income for paying your bills. I tell this to everyone and not just homesteaders. It doesn't matter what the source is... it can be cut off due to government shutdown, lost in the mail, loss of employment, rental tenant moves out, crop failure, business failure, etc... You should always have a backup plan and a backup to the backup plan, if possible.

Other sources of income that many people tap into include becoming a childcare provider, teaching music lessons (or whatever else you might be good at), plowing snow, tilling gardens, landscaping, selling plants starts in the Spring, scrapping metal, hauling junk, house cleaning, selling firewood, fixing machinery, baking (depending on regulations), specialty sewing, pressure washing, Ebay/Craigslist sales, etc... There is always something that you can do to earn a buck, but you want your income to be diversified to protect your family.


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## ||Downhome|| (Jan 12, 2009)

Twobottom said:


> First let me say that anyone who says complete self sufficiency is "impossible" is 100% wrong. There are many examples of complete or near complete self sufficiency. Here is a family who lived completely cut off from the outside world for forty years; http://www.smithsonianmag.com/histo...ontact-Unaware-of-World-War-II-188843001.html
> 
> ^^ This does absolutely prove, beyond any doubt that complete self sufficiency is possible. If you read, you will note that it is also very very difficult, and probably not preferable to most people.



Well no you do not take into account a few things.

They where out in no mans land, thats not the case for most of us...

Now factor that in to your equation and tell me what you come up with!


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## Twobottom (Sep 29, 2013)

||Downhome|| said:


> Well no you do not take into account a few things.
> 
> They where out in no mans land, thats not the case for most of us...
> 
> Now factor that in to your equation and tell me what you come up with!


Well you can move out to no-mans-land...or you can use some other model. The fact is if you say it is not possible to be completely self reliant then you are wrong. No argument there, its a proven fact.


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## ||Downhome|| (Jan 12, 2009)

Well As long as your endeavors is here in The USA, or really any modern country, I will have to disagree.
Show me examples here? 

I can give you one and a hero of mine Richard Louis "_Dick_" Proenneke_.
_He choose to live a life in the last real frontier of the US.
Even with what he accomplished, he was not 100% self sufficient.

So again and this isn't even apples to oranges, Its dolphins to ostriches.

I said earlier in a post, a modest life is easier to live then a enriched one.
Not many would live the way that family did.
Well we all want the chains of society off us, well there are more of those that are comfy with them.
As such resources are regulated as well as activity's.
So where can you go park your self and just live the good life?
Hard to do in a country of private property, sure you could do it for a while, but you must of missed how much people dislike others trespassing.
In one of the National,State or County Parks.
Well I can think of a few examples of that too.
Not too long until someones going to come along and move you.

I suppose you could Label the Homeless as true self sufficient people.
Foraging is Foraging,Right?
Even thought the harvest is normally the cast offs of the society that would not have them or they choose not to be part of.

Well Dicks lifestyle calls to me, I would not want the other two...

Even with Dicks Hunter Gather plan, its lot of work. 

Besides certain road blocks (mainly society and their Laws) very few are going to be willing to live a subsistence lifestyle.

Or Able.

Like I said One person can not do everything themselves.
Most folks today will tell you there's not enough hours in the day, just wait till you go back to manually doing everything...


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## Batt (Sep 8, 2006)

thestartupman said:


> One of the best things I like about it is the fact there are *no* building permits in most counties.


 There. fixed it for you.


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## chuckhole (Mar 2, 2006)

There have been a lot of great ideas mentioned above for earning money from the land. Keep in mind that if you finance your purchase, the bank is lending money based upon the value of the land. If you change that value, they have a say so in how you do it. Specifically, I am talking about cutting or timbering. Most banks will not allow tree removal for profit or at least require an approval. So research before you leap.

Good luck with your endeavor. Self sufficiency is a lofty goal. And keep in mind that it is not always a profitable one. Financially speaking, it is not good advice to spend two dollars to save one. I hate this saying (because of management overuse) but will go there anyway: "Go for the low hanging fruit". Make sure that "the juice is worth the squeeze".


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## thestartupman (Jul 25, 2010)

Thanks Batt, you are correct, I meant no building permits.


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## SugarMag (Jun 30, 2011)

Arkansas has some counties with no permits.


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## ET1 SS (Oct 22, 2005)

Around here, if you make a permanent foundation then you need a permit. But most of the state has no inspectors.

The only folks we get from the government is the tax assessor. He makes his way through every township once every ten years. He does not care what you build. He just wants the outer dimensions recorded for the assessment, every ten years.


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## DEKE01 (Jul 17, 2013)

Florida has no bldg permits for ag bldgs. Some folks build barns and then convert them to non-ag uses.


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## Gravytrain (Mar 2, 2013)

I've always wondered when these topics come up, why Pennsylvania is always so underrepresented. I don't protest, because I am quite willing to keep the low tax, low cost of living, low input from the government, warm summers, good hunting and fishing all to myself. Once you get outside of the 3 or 4 metro areas that represent about 10-15% of the land mass...the rest of the rolling hills and mountains of the state are quite wonderful.


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## davwil143 (Oct 24, 2013)

Rural southern alabama gets my vote. Lo land price, utilities, taxes, game warden Is lawman, pick produce on halves. Have a herd of cows. They eat anything green.Bunt oil, salt, bleach is total meds for cows. No cable service . No iphone service . Free dinner Weds at church

Sent from my SCH-S738C using Homesteading Today mobile app


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## Bellyman (Jul 6, 2013)

Gravytrain said:


> I've always wondered when these topics come up, why Pennsylvania is always so underrepresented. I don't protest, because I am quite willing to keep the low tax, low cost of living, low input from the government, warm summers, good hunting and fishing all to myself. Once you get outside of the 3 or 4 metro areas that represent about 10-15% of the land mass...the rest of the rolling hills and mountains of the state are quite wonderful.


I grew up in Lancaster County. Wonderful farm land... unfortunately, much of it covered in black top and subdivisions these days. 60 years ago, when my parents built their house, it was along a sleepy little road. Today, it's a major thoroughfare with traffic that I couldn't move back to. 

If moving back to that area, I'd have pretty high property taxes, plenty of regulations and restrictions on what I could do, and even emissions testing (Uugh!!). 

To move back "home", it would be way more crowded and expensive than I'd want. With the proximity to Philly, Harrisburg and even Baltimore, it's a little too urbanized for my taste.

What part of PA do you hail from?


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## Gravytrain (Mar 2, 2013)

Bellyman said:


> If moving back to that area, I'd have pretty high property taxes, plenty of regulations and restrictions on what I could do, and even emissions testing (Uugh!!).
> 
> To move back "home", it would be way more crowded and expensive than I'd want. With the proximity to Philly, Harrisburg and even Baltimore, it's a little too urbanized for my taste.
> 
> What part of PA do you hail from?


I'm in the opposite corner of the state...but I'm very familiar with Lancaster county. My brother lives there (Manheim twp.). I consider that area as Philly's surburbs...that line running from Allentown, Reading, Lancaster and York and I'd consider that whole corner of the state one of the urban areas I was talking about (even though there are rural areas within that area too). And you're right, property values are sky high in those areas. 

The greater Pittsburgh area, is the only other large area in the state like that...then geographically small areas in Erie, Scranton/WB, and Harrisburg Looking at a map of the state, approximately 80-85% of the state geographically is small town, agriculture, or mountains/forest, which suits me well.

Also, I used to be a road warrior and have travelled extensively throughout the country. Some other areas that I really liked were northcentral Michigan (although a bit too flat for me), central/western Maryland and northern West Virginia. Lots of great areas in the south too, but the icefishing isn't the greatest in the south.


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## Ohio dreamer (Apr 6, 2006)

A guy started a forum on just this subject. A place for every state and comments on it from people living there as to how much freedom there is or isn't in their state. http://walkingtofreedom.com/forum/


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## farmgal (Nov 12, 2005)

I do love my home in NY. I rent out one huge pole barn that was here when I bought the place for more then my taxes. Its way down the road, so its not near my home. 

I would not live where I had to pay for water or need air conditioning..


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## jassar (Oct 16, 2013)

The hubby and I have lived in CA our entire lives. CA is currently the highest taxed state in the union, have a very intrusive government and in my opinion the last thing that the CA politicians want is anyone that is self sufficient. This state wants everyone dependent, with their hands out. All I can say is Stay Away!

We are moving to Northern Idaho. No fracking or potential for (that I have been able to find), while not in the top ten of the most tax friendly states, it is listed as "tax friendly". Plenty of fresh water, nature, and really nice people. Seems the government is not intrusive. Great areas for gardening (especially if you don't get in a high elevation). As long as you stay way from the part of the state with the toxic mining problems, seems to be about as "clean" as you can get. 

We are so excited to get out of CA in the next 6 or so months, we can hardly contain ourselves!

Good luck!
Janna


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## rharper (Feb 4, 2013)

Water is an issue in the west.

It just is ... and there's not a &%*^$ thing you can do about it. 

I grew up out in the dry part of southern Oregon, and was a newspaper reporter out there for awhile, covering ... you guessed it ... water issues.

I moved East for grad school, discovered that it rained here in the summer (Water. Falling from the sky. In July.) and I've never really considered going back. It's a big deal. If you've been living in NY state, then you probably have no concept of how dry the West is ... even close to the coast. 

My advice is to stick to places where large scale irrigation is an oddity, rather than the norm. 

In that vein, I'm not sure you have to look far. I lived in Rochester for years, and I was sad to leave the area (my wife is a Virginia gal, so here we are).

Here's why:

*there's a thriving (and I mean _thriving_) local ag scene in western NY. The Public Market in Rochester has an amazing range of local produce (including meat) at grocery store prices. If you want to raise for market, the market is there, even though the prices are low ... and if you want to supplement with good cheap produce, the option is there. Down here, farmer's markets are "boutique" affairs--and horribly, impossibly expensive.

*The land is cheap. Yes, it really is. Taxes run high (it is New York), but the ag land south of Rochester is some of the cheapest you'll find, so long as you're not starting a winery--the prices of lakeshore land in the Finger Lakes area is much higher than the acres on the backside of the ridge. You can find livable old fixer-upper farmhouses on 10-20 acres for less than 100k. You just have to look.

*The land, in general, is good. You'll find almost anything that can grow in the northern third of the country has a home in west/central NY. It's long-time orchard country, and was once the regional breadbasket. Overall, the dirt up there beats the heck out of our quartz-n-clay Virginia hilltop.

*The land is fairly clean, in East Coast terms. It isn't coal country, so you don't have Acid mine runoff or separate mineral rights, and fracking hasn't wrecked anything yet (though that fight is on, it seems). Most of the land in west/central NY is long-time farmland, and you aren't likely to find many "surprises" under the topsoil.

Folks tend to overlook NY state as a homesteader's destination because they think of the city and Hudson Valley and the reputation for liberal regulation of freaking everything. You might be surprised, however, at the possibilities to be found in the area around Rochester, Syracuse, Cortland, Buffalo, and the Finger Lakes. 

I'd be back up there in a New York Minute if the wife would go along ...


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## TheMartianChick (May 26, 2009)

RHarper is absolutely right about NY being affordable!

Even with my earlier complaint about higher taxes in my county, low property values in NY allowed me to buy my first home at age 23, using only my income. I was only making around $11 per hour at the time. 9 months later, hubby bought one based upon his income alone. That set the stage for having a bit of a safety net for our family.

While we get snow, we don't get many "surprise" disasters. If we get an earthquake, it is a slight tremor and nothing falls or breaks. Tornadoes are rare and generally mild. We don't really get hurricanes. In fact, Hurricane Sandy never came anywhere close to us in the Syracuse area and our lights never even flickered!

We have great soil, great support for agriculture and we're just a short drive from Cornell University which houses one of the best ag departments and extension programs in the US. Our farmers markets are well-attended and there are lots of foodies who are grateful for access to wholesome food from the farm.

The land is beautiful and there are lots of lakes, ponds and streams. If you like to hike or enjoy nature, then you'll find that we have lots of State parks with great facilities. We're close to the Canadian border and can pop over to visit Niagara Falls whenever the mood strikes.

Our climate supports a wide variety of agriculture. We can grow just about everything except citrus fruits, peanuts and cotton! We also have some of the best medical facilities in the country and our State college system is top-notch. In addition to Cornell University, we're also close to Syracuse University, Hobart & William Smith, Hamilton College, Rochester Institute of Technology, Rennselear Polytechnic, St. John Fisher, Clarkson University and many more. If you have children, this means that they will be able to partake of all sorts of advanced college courses and program to help them to prepare for college. My city actually guarantees every student an opportunity to attend college for free through the Say Yes to Education program. (Unfortunately, you cannot have a rural homestead within the city limits!)


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## ET1 SS (Oct 22, 2005)

rharper said:


> Water is an issue in the west.


Actually about 80% of the nation.





> ... It just is ... and there's not a &%*^$ thing you can do about it.
> 
> I grew up out in the dry part of southern Oregon, and was a newspaper reporter out there for awhile, covering ... you guessed it ... water issues.
> 
> I moved East for grad school, discovered that it rained here in the summer (Water. Falling from the sky. In July.) and I've never really considered going back. It's a big deal. If you've been living in NY state, then you probably have no concept of how dry the West is ... even close to the coast.


I routinely see folks posting about how great it is to homestead in drought-prone regions.

Dry as dry can be, by July all the grass is dead and brown. But they love it.



So long as land is available for under $1,000/acre, in dense forest, with water frontage, and taxes are less then $2/acre. Then life is good.


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## DEKE01 (Jul 17, 2013)

In Florida, I pay about $3.27 / acre in taxes, but that is without a house and there are no income taxes.


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## ET1 SS (Oct 22, 2005)

DEKE01 said:


> In Florida, I pay about $3.27 / acre in taxes, but that is without a house and there are no income taxes.


3X the property taxes, and you pay the same level of income taxes that I pay, not bad assuming it is water-frontage.


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## hosscartwright (Nov 7, 2013)

DEKE01 said:


> In Florida, I pay about $3.27 / acre in taxes, but that is without a house and there are no income taxes.


I'm in Florida. Having lived as far north as CT and as far west as TX. There is a definate advantage to the climate in northern Florida. My spring garden lasted until October 1st and my fall garden is producing now and hopefully will continue for some time. In no other state have I experienced 9 months of growing capability without the use of a greenhouse. Also the weather is great for chickens. I've experienced much better egg production then in other climates even with a brooder lamp. 
I'm sure there are positive things you could find to say about any state. It's a matter of preference I suppose.


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## DEKE01 (Jul 17, 2013)

ET1 SS said:


> 3X the property taxes, and you pay the same level of income taxes that I pay, not bad assuming it is water-frontage.


are you saying Maine has no income tax?


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## ET1 SS (Oct 22, 2005)

DEKE01 said:


> are you saying Maine has no income tax?


No. Maine has an income tax for higher income people. I think that the primary source of tax revenue for the state is corporate taxes.

I am a retiree with additional income coming in from my homestead. My income is low enough that it falls below the minimum to tripwire the income tax thing.

I paid $900/acre for water frontage forest land, which now costs me $1.05/acre each year in taxes; and I pay no income taxes.

We also bought another parcel of land that is not water frontage that cost us $350/acre, with the same level of taxes.


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## DEKE01 (Jul 17, 2013)

hosscartwright said:


> I'm in Florida. Having lived as far north as CT and as far west as TX. There is a definate advantage to the climate in northern Florida. My spring garden lasted until October 1st and my fall garden is producing now and hopefully will continue for some time. In no other state have I experienced 9 months of growing capability without the use of a greenhouse. Also the weather is great for chickens. I've experienced much better egg production then in other climates even with a brooder lamp.
> I'm sure there are positive things you could find to say about any state. It's a matter of preference I suppose.


Decades ago I lived in south FL and was able to have garden fresh tomatoes 10 months. A cold snap (55F) would slow them down in Feb of Mar each year and heat would stop things in Aug. We had citrus Oct - Mar. Unfortunately, back then I didn't know about cool season crops like broccoli so I didn't get as much out of the garden as I should have. 

I agree, there is good to be found every where, mostly it just comes down to personal preferences. I like the mid west but would not live in IL because I hate how Chicago politics runs the state. There are wonderful areas in western MD, but MD suffers from Baltimore and DC burb politics. Western and northern NYS is ruled by the NYC area. Despite the beauty of those areas and the productivity of the land, I wouldn't want to live in a a state that had little concern for 2A rights, did not value small farms, and cares not for fiscal conservatism.


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## DEKE01 (Jul 17, 2013)

ET1 SS said:


> No. Maine has an income tax for higher income people. I think that the primary source of tax revenue for the state is corporate taxes.
> 
> I am a retiree with additional income coming in from my homestead. My income is low enough that it falls below the minimum to tripwire the income tax thing.
> 
> ...


Well, except for that whole 11.75 months of winter, it sounds good. :happy2:


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## jwal10 (Jun 5, 2010)

There is no "best" state. Every state is different and each state has "better" areas. Some have great tax advantages but "bad" weather, population or something people do not like. You have to put what you like and don't like and GO for it....James


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## ejagno (Jan 2, 2008)

You have a lot more to consider before making a commitment. First of all I see you are from New York. While our climate allows for year round gardening the heat would be very difficult for you to become acclimated. All states have their pro's and con's. The land has to be without restrictions first of all. Land with streams but not in a flood plain. Land that will allow for a well instead of city water. First decide exactly what it is that you want to do, raise, build and encompass when you say "Homesteading" and go from there.


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## bergere (May 11, 2002)

Don't come to Carolina county, VA. They will tax you to death!

That little 10 by 12' hen house we put up on skids, they tax us.. they call it an egg house. (rolling eyes). You have to get permit for everything, which costs $$$... even a run in shed for stock and horses.. then they have an inspector come out and see how much more they are going to tax you.
They even tax you every 6 months to park your cars and trucks on your property. 
If you are a small business... good luck trying to make it... the permits, extra fees and taxes... lets just say it is so much for me... might put me out of business next year.
I could go on but I would cry.

In NW Oregon.. property tax was a little higher than here... but there wasn't any other fees, taxes or what not, to bleed a person dry. 
Food was cheaper... just over all, cheaper to live in Columbia County Oregon.
Down side... there is a lot of rain but I did not mind that at all. Not much in the way of fair wage jobs either.... which is the reason we are over in VA now.
Plus side, you can be a small business owner in Oregon and make money... no extra taxes, fees or permits.

Every place as their good and bad points. This area of VA is spendy, very spendy and poor.


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## PerhamMN (Oct 24, 2011)

There are some good discussions over at the Walking to Freedom forum that might be helpful. It came out of The Survival Podcast community.

http://walkingtofreedom.com/forum/index.php


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## chrishicks82 (Aug 15, 2011)

In my opinion self sufficiency can be accomplished by growing your food and selling and trading the excess selling your crafts I do wood working and make a little money at that. Even if you have a part time job you can still be self sufficient for the most part our ancestors did it so why cant we. All you need to do is change your lifestyle a little.


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## Sparticle (Nov 1, 2004)

Didn't read the replies, but I say Missouri. We looked for 9 months before deciding on this area. NO building codes, cheap taxes, cheap land, lots of water, good elevation, centrally located from the coasts, and we picked a property that had huge hills surrounding us to help protect against tornadoes.


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## ET1 SS (Oct 22, 2005)

Sparticle said:


> Didn't read the replies, but I say Missouri. We looked for 9 months before deciding on this area. NO building codes, cheap taxes, cheap land, lots of water, good elevation, centrally located from the coasts, and we picked a property that had huge hills surrounding us to help protect against tornadoes.


My paternal grandparents had a farm in Benton county Missouri, they lost it to drought.


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## backwoods (Sep 12, 2004)

Being self sufficient and "surviving" is different from "living." Most people want to do more than just survive. An adult living alone is hardly comparative to a family with young children. The two have very different needs. The individual's circumstances play a large part in how self sufficient they can live "comfortably." There are few places where you can really get that far away from people in the continental US. You'd better check out the regional peculiarities of the area you plan to move to, as every place has them. If you can't stand the way southerners talk, then don't move there..as an example. The west coast would be the LAST place I'd consider homesteading, due to such over rigorous regulations and taxes, but that's just my opinion. Good luck, whatever you decide.


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## wharton (Oct 9, 2011)

The conversation about PA. is interesting. We just sold a place in rural. western Monroe county. Small ranch that the county valued at $135K. Taxes are $5100 for 2014!!! This is 3.77% of current value, and some of the highest taxes in the nation, when viewed on as a percentage of market value. OTOH, in rural northwestern PA, those taxes could be 80% less for a similar property. One really dangerous, and unstable fact in this disparity is that the school tax situation in the state is becoming a crisis. Nearly twenty years ago, a court settlement created conditions when some school districts, typically the smaller ones with declining enrollment, now receive 80% of their annual budget from state funds and other's barely get 20%. At some point the free ride for a lot of small, rural districts is going to come to a crashing halt. Hopefully this will be the result of a totally reworked system, including income and sales tax changes, or other choices that stop crushing some homeowners with huge tax burdens, and don't shift the burden to rural residents in low income areas. If the areas with explosive recent growth, like the Poconos, prevail in their court battles, it is possible that some PA. homeowners will see real estate tax increases like they never dreamed of. The state constitution calls for a shared burden in paying for the schools, with the state paying half. If the legislator is forced to follow the law, it will be interesting. 
As for the lack of regulatory burden. Maybe before the state wide building codes started in 2006, but not here, not now. When I build a modest, affordable home in my current location (Carbon county), I deal with $3-4K in fees, and at least 18-20 visits from inspectors. I know things are a lot more laid back in the northern tier, but it's getting worse every year, and the bureaucrats are spreading like a cancer. Never though I would be spending thousands a year in fees to enrich a large engineering firm that weaseled it's way into a rural township and now bills 30-40K a month for it's "services". 
I'm a long way from the young adult I once was, but when it comes to recommending a hassle free, low cost place to start fresh, my personal experience is that PA. would not be my first choice. It can be a stunningly beautiful place, but it ain't cheap, it got a deeply corrupt state government, and those in power, at all levels love to keep piling more financial and regulatory burden on top of it's citizens.


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## ET1 SS (Oct 22, 2005)

wharton said:


> The conversation about PA. is interesting. We just sold a place in rural. western Monroe county. Small ranch that the county valued at $135K. Taxes are $5100 for 2014!!! This is 3.77% of current value, and some of the highest taxes in the nation, when viewed on as a percentage of market value.


Those are high taxes.

It seems to me that every state, has someone beating the drum saying that that state has the highest taxes.

We moved to Maine, and we have never seen such low taxes. Yet locals all insist that our taxes are the highest in the nation. ? ? ? 

I don't get it.


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## Gravytrain (Mar 2, 2013)

wharton said:


> The conversation about PA. is interesting. We just sold a place in rural. western Monroe county. Small ranch that the county valued at $135K. Taxes are $5100 for 2014!!! This is 3.77% of current value, and some of the highest taxes in the nation, when viewed on as a percentage of market value. OTOH, in rural northwestern PA, those taxes could be 80% less for a similar property.


Our residence is 3300 sq ft on 15 acres on a paved rural highway in NW PA. It is valued at $300,000 Our taxes are about $1900/year. Our farm (about 3 miles away in the same township and school district) has a small, but very nice farmhouse, barn milkhouse and garage on 110 acres with 1/2 mile of paved road frontage valued at $230,000. Taxes on that property are $1650/year.

I have a friend in the next township (same school district) that pays $6400/year for 2200 sq ft house and 23 acres. I actually looked at that house before I bought the one I'm in...needless to say I passed on it (and that township) because of the taxes. 




wharton said:


> As for the lack of regulatory burden. Maybe before the state wide building codes started in 2006, but not here, not now. When I build a modest, affordable home in my current location (Carbon county), I deal with $3-4K in fees, and at least 18-20 visits from inspectors. I know things are a lot more laid back in the northern tier, but it's getting worse every year, and the bureaucrats are spreading like a cancer. Never though I would be spending thousands a year in fees to enrich a large engineering firm that weaseled it's way into a rural township and now bills 30-40K a month for it's "services".
> I'm a long way from the young adult I once was, but when it comes to recommending a hassle free, low cost place to start fresh, my personal experience is that PA. would not be my first choice. It can be a stunningly beautiful place, but it ain't cheap, it got a deeply corrupt state government, and those in power, at all levels love to keep piling more financial and regulatory burden on top of it's citizens.


Wow...I knew it was bad out east, but not that bad. It seems eastern and western PA are a world apart. It seems the more progressives that flee NY and NJ for the relative regulatory and tax paradise of eastern PA the more they import the ideas that they are fleeing. 

I do a lot of buying properties and building houses and retail space all throughout western PA...I don't have a regulatory nightmare of fees and repetitive inspections...although I try to stay clear of the big union and bureaucratic thuggery around most metro/suburban areas. Out here, in most places it _IS_ cheap and relatively hassle free.


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## idlehands211 (Oct 20, 2013)

Wow... so much info. Thank you everyone. I have some serious research to do on my own. I am currently living in NY, and I do love the area. My land would consist of nothing more than a cabin and an acre or two of crops, so I'm sure property taxes anywhere wouldn't be too out of control. I've found some websites to buy land through, but who knows how reliable they are. Can anyone recommend the best way to go about purchasing land?

This isn't necessarily about trying to get away from government interference. I'm looking to make my own way in the world, in what I believe is the most rewarding and responsible way to live. It's something I've been considering for ten years... but I always thought about Alaska. 8 months of winter is a long time and I never even considered doing it somewhere else.... but why not? Just give me a couple of acres...


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## Pony (Jan 6, 2003)

ET1 SS said:


> My paternal grandparents had a farm in Benton county Missouri, they lost it to drought.


Really? How long ago was that? 

Sure, you can get an extended drought almost anywhere, but Benton County has more recently had an issue with too much water.

Overall, however, MO is pretty good on water levels. Those of us on the Roubidoux Aquifer aren't complaining.


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## ET1 SS (Oct 22, 2005)

Pony said:


> Really? How long ago was that?


1930 - 1936





> ... Sure, you can get an extended drought almost anywhere, but Benton County has more recently had an issue with too much water.
> 
> Overall, however, MO is pretty good on water levels. Those of us on the Roubidoux Aquifer aren't complaining.


Where I finally homesteaded has not had a drought in human recorded history.


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## wharton (Oct 9, 2011)

Gravytrain said:


> Wow...I knew it was bad out east, but not that bad. It seems eastern and western PA are a world apart. Out here, in most places it _IS_ cheap and relatively hassle free.


Honestly, I would of said exactly the same thing a decade ago. Cheap taxes, quiet rural area, rules and regs. nearly non-existent. 

The taxes are strictly from a massive influx of students during the boom, and total inability to both control educational spending, or to get the state to keep up with paying their fair share. Straight up, the legislators want to avoid this like a case of fleas. If they don't do the right thing and address equitable school funding, the courts will do it for them, and your taxes will be lucky to just triple. The issue was that, up until the mid-90s, the big cities were being robbed by a lack of funding. They won a judgment that greatly increased their funding. Part of the deal was that the smaller rural districts would be held harmless. If they got .003% of the funding total in '97, they still get it today. This has made some HUGE winners, in very remote places, like Elk county, where the state picks up 80% of the total bill, and horrendous losers, like some Pocono districts that had explosive growth, are being paid based on what they got 20 years ago, and now have 5X the students. It's gonna' get ugly. 

The regulatory mess came out of the blue with the adoption of the IRC, and the ability of the medium to large size engineering firms to slide in and take control. Townships get to sit back and get a percentage of the take, and the firms slowly get the townships sickly dependent on the funds. They become junkies. The firms keep adding fees and increasing existing ones, all while graciously handing 20% to the township. It has been a sickening and fascinating mess to watch. Unfortunately, unless you are in an area where there just isn't enough money to be had, I think you are going to see a lot more of this happening across PA. Remember, a lot of these firms are already set up in the middle of absolute nowhere, in the northern tier and western PA, as the do work for the fracking industry. It's no big leap to offer to take over the complicated task of managing IRC compliance, while offering a source of income to the local township or small community. Bureaucrats are a cancer. For profit bureaucrats are worse.


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## SJSFarm (Jun 13, 2012)

You may be best served to call the particular community you want to move into. Sometimes communities have particular codes others don't.

I am in a "Right to Farm" town east if Buffalo, ny. I had to get not only a permit to add to my pole barn, but I had to get an ARCHITECT! 

Even the architect was confused as to why he was needed on that project so he called the town himself. STUPID.


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## SJSFarm (Jun 13, 2012)

I have a better idea. Troll the posts frequently and search old ones, watching the locations of the posters. Find a couple places you are interested in and once you narrow it down make contact with some posters in those areas. MOVE NEAR ONE OF THEM! :gaptooth:


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## Patchouli (Aug 3, 2011)

idlehands211 said:


> Wow... so much info. Thank you everyone. I have some serious research to do on my own. I am currently living in NY, and I do love the area. My land would consist of nothing more than a cabin and an acre or two of crops, so I'm sure property taxes anywhere wouldn't be too out of control. I've found some websites to buy land through, but who knows how reliable they are. Can anyone recommend the best way to go about purchasing land?
> 
> This isn't necessarily about trying to get away from government interference. I'm looking to make my own way in the world, in what I believe is the most rewarding and responsible way to live. It's something I've been considering for ten years... but I always thought about Alaska. 8 months of winter is a long time and I never even considered doing it somewhere else.... but why not? Just give me a couple of acres...


My advice is pick a place you are interested in and get a job there and live there for a few months and see if you like it. Scout out the land in the area and take the time to find the right place for you. If you are going to invest you time and labor into creating a home for the rest of your life it's a good idea to spend a few months getting the right one.


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## norcalfarm (Feb 11, 2009)

Government in California is more restrictive than many places however they generally don't get on you too much unless you are trying to skirt the system. They are coming down on mj growers for illegal grading and other violations because of the damage to the land and watershed righfully so imo. Also, politics over water is out of control and will always favor southern California. For that matter, southern California always comes first which is why the State of Jefferson movement is making a comeback. 

If my work didn't keep me here, I would probably choose to move elsewhere but California does offer a lot of choices. Within a few hours drive in northern California, you could be in wet weather on the coast, arid summers in the valley and foothills, cooler temps in the mountains and high desert to the east. Northern California is a beautiful place and most of it is a good place for farming but the politics of this state put a serious damper on it.


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## wyld thang (Nov 16, 2005)

I always have to giggle when folks say Oregon sucks for permits and taxes blah blah--well yeah if you're trying to do it in the urban areas (Portland, I-5 corridor, Bend). There are ways around permits and taxes if you're really shrewd and truly out there. 

Property taxes are at least reasonable when your land is in forest deferral. 

When considering an area for homesteading I do a lot of work researching the vibe of the neighborhood and surrounding resources and crops. Big variety along with a self sufficient attitude in general is cool.

Yeah I love the Pacific Northwest, it is my native land. But just saying when people wholesale dismiss an area usually they didn't really get into that wonderful underground off the grid backcountry of a place where homesteading really works out well.


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## DEKE01 (Jul 17, 2013)

wyld thang said:


> I always have to giggle when folks say Oregon sucks for permits and taxes blah blah--well yeah if you're trying to do it in the urban areas (Portland, I-5 corridor, Bend). There are ways around permits and taxes if you're really shrewd and truly out there.
> 
> Property taxes are at least reasonable when your land is in forest deferral.
> 
> ...


My few times out that way, I understand why you like it. But if I'm choosing a place to homestead and I have a choice between

A: a place where I have to find ways around work around the system, figure out where I have to be to avoid official eyes, or to out shrewd the armies of bureaucrats, or,
B: a place that has genuine appreciation and respect for homesteaders and with a less gov't is better gov't attitude, 

I prefer the latter, but of course, I grant you that no place I've found meets my ideal.


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## wyld thang (Nov 16, 2005)

DEKE01 said:


> My few times out that way, I understand why you like it. But if I'm choosing a place to homestead and I have a choice between
> 
> A: a place where I have to find ways around work around the system, figure out where I have to be to avoid official eyes, or to out shrewd the armies of bureaucrats, or,
> B: a place that has genuine appreciation and respect for homesteaders and with a less gov't is better gov't attitude,
> ...


Your B is much harder to find these days in the Californication of America. Very few want to "homestead"--that whole thing is old fashioned or anathema in the overall pop culture. BUT things change with critical mass. Your odds of finding what you want go way up when you find community of like minds. I did. I guarantee every tool in the box is used to preserve that homesteading freedom, including the monkey wrench. 

You don't "find" a place the respects homesteaders, you MAKE it. Much easier with like minds in the hood.


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## rharper (Feb 4, 2013)

wyld thang said:


> I always have to giggle when folks say Oregon sucks for permits and taxes blah blah--well yeah if you're trying to do it in the urban areas (Portland, I-5 corridor, Bend). There are ways around permits and taxes if you're really shrewd and truly out there.
> 
> Property taxes are at least reasonable when your land is in forest deferral.
> 
> ...


Yes. And yes.

You have to know what you're doing anywhere, of course ... but I grew up in (and worked the woods in) backwoods Oregon east of the Cascades (well outside the populated/moneyed areas). I saw plenty that wasn't in the rulebook, but was out there anyway. Codes, in that area, are more flexible, in many cases, than you might expect. It depends on who you ask, who you know, and who knows what you're up to.

I'm out East for other reasons ... but code and tax concerns aren't on that list.


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## rharper (Feb 4, 2013)

Don't forget by the way, that real estate and sales tax aren't the only ways they get you ... Virginia seems like it has a lower tax burden than New York, until you get here, and realize that you have to pay taxes on your cars/boats/trailers/etc. as well as your property. We pay less in property taxes than we did in NY ... but I'll be d*%^$#d if I could sell my car for the amount our county thinks it's worth (and taxes us on).

I don't mind paying my taxes ... but I don't like it when they take me by surprise ...


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## ET1 SS (Oct 22, 2005)

rharper said:


> Don't forget by the way, that real estate and sales tax aren't the only ways they get you ... Virginia seems like it has a lower tax burden than New York, until you get here, and realize that you have to pay taxes on your cars/boats/trailers/etc. as well as your property. We pay less in property taxes than we did in NY ... but I'll be d*%^$#d if I could sell my car for the amount our county thinks it's worth (and taxes us on).
> 
> I don't mind paying my taxes ... but I don't like it when they take me by surprise ...


We pay taxes on cars. The more expensive the car, the higher the tax. The cheaper, the lower the tax. And every year the tax is cut in half, until it reaches $15.

Drive old beaters and you pay $15/year.

No tax on boats, trailers, sleds, or ATVs though, that would suck.



Since moving here in '05; I have not even heard of a code inspector visiting this township.



There are regions of the East Coast with low taxes, few codes, and rural [1 - 10 people/sq mile].


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## Ike1 (Dec 5, 2013)

DEKE01 said:


> Florida was the right one for us. If you like cold weather you can get some great prices an hour from Tallahassee and have a short winter, rolling hills, clay soil, 8 - 9 month gardening. If you like it warmer, head south and the soils become sandier, you can garden year round once you get to Palm Beach and south, but the prices go up.
> 
> Florida has a right to farm law, low taxes, and a less than average intrusive gov't.


Hi DEKE01
Ia'm planning to move out of NJ by this spring,very interested in homesteading in north Florida,please if you can tell me where about near Tallahasssee? I would like to be within one our from the gulf ,when my kids were younger we lived in Clearwater for couple years. can I raise chickens for eggs, and few goats for milk?
thanks


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## BackwoodsHunter (Nov 17, 2013)

Tennessee.


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## DEKE01 (Jul 17, 2013)

Ike1 said:


> Hi DEKE01
> Ia'm planning to move out of NJ by this spring,very interested in homesteading in north Florida,please if you can tell me where about near Tallahasssee? I would like to be within one our from the gulf ,when my kids were younger we lived in Clearwater for couple years. can I raise chickens for eggs, and few goats for milk?
> thanks


Most north-easterners move to the east coast of south FL. When I lived there in the late 80s, there were more native NYers than native Floridians in the Miami to Palm Beach 3 county area. It was quite a shock to me when a bad stereotypical NYer got in my face over something I thought to be minor. As a southern country boy, the only people I had ever seen act like that were about to come to blows. I only mention that because in the area around Tallahassee, it is still part of the old South. You'll stick out there, but the folks are very friendly, think Bobby Bowden. 

In general, if you stay in the panhandle, on the south side of I-10, you will be an hour or less from the gulf. Most of that area is very rural and I think you would have to shop hard to find a place outside of a city that would not allow you to have livestock.


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## Astrid (Nov 13, 2010)

Although you said the lower 48, my vote is for Alaska. In the southern islands it is a temperate rainforest. Zone 7-8 depending on where. Where we are, we can grow figs. We lived in Illinois, Maine and NC and each of those locations has positives and negatives.At this point we are really enjoying the freedom and the self sufficiency mindset that people here have. Plus, land is relatively cheap and depending on where you are, no property taxes at all. We can also forage for a lot of food. Salmon is plentiful three seasons of the year, halibut, clams, crab, trout in fresh water lakes, deer, elk on some islands, migrating geese and ducks, beach asparagus, goose tongue and a host of other ocean side vegetables, mushrooms and all kinds of berries are everywhere. We homestead and raise a huge garden and have livestock, but there are plenty of people who don't. 

Just a suggestion.


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## rusticfarmer (Sep 23, 2013)

Where in West Virginia would be a good suggestion for Homesteading. Prefer a place I can build without having to deal with many codes. I would like to build underground and have tons of trouble here in Columbia County PA with codes.


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## Kstornado11 (Mar 17, 2006)

Found this old thread via searching for a place to move to homestead. We have our hearts set on Maine, but considering somewhere closer to home (Eastern Kansas) to stay relatively near the grandparents. Don't want to go south, I can't STAND the hot summers here :grump: . What about Wisconsin & Michigan? I saw an article about MI losing the right to farm on small acreage...? 
http://www.inquisitr.com/1235774/mi...farewell-to-backyard-chickens-and-beekeepers/


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## bergere (May 11, 2002)

Kstornado11 said:


> Found this old thread via searching for a place to move to homestead. We have our hearts set on Maine, but considering somewhere closer to home (Eastern Kansas) to stay relatively near the grandparents. Don't want to go south, I can't STAND the hot summers here :grump: . What about Wisconsin & Michigan? I saw an article about MI losing the right to farm on small acreage...?
> http://www.inquisitr.com/1235774/mi...farewell-to-backyard-chickens-and-beekeepers/


I have heard Michigan small farmers and most homesteaders, now have a bill that states they can no longer farm or have animals, even chickens.
Think city people and Gov has gone crazy.....

http://www.policestateusa.com/2014/michigan-right-to-farm/

http://www.offthegridnews.com/2014/05/02/michigan-bans-animals-on-small-farms/

Now saying this, I haven't had the time to research the Bill... so I am only going on what is floating around on the Net.


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## Janis R (Jun 27, 2013)

My husband is from FL and I grew up in IL, we live in TN, it's the 1/2 way point and hubby is still south of the Mason Dixon line
1. No state taxes
2. 4 seasons with moderate winters
3. Building permits are more lax
4. Taxes are cheap, we own 41 acres and pay $306.00/year with greenbelt deduction, in other counties we also got military discount and paid $212.00/yr for 41 acres
5.Low cost of living
6. Taxes are 9.5% but then you know what they are on all things
7. We haves lot's of sunshine, moderate rainfall, snow depends on where you live.
8. We have varied topography
9. Lots of water and rivers and we have underground streams and caves
10. People are very friendly and helpful not like IL
11. With a little ingenuity we have 3 growing seasons and can have a fourth with a greenhouse
12. Our animals don't need such heavy winter housing
13. We have good weather that we can leave a/c and heat off close to 5-6 months of the year
14 It's a republican state and conservative we have so many churches.
Now we don't work, when I did (like most people) I had close to an hours commute unless I wanted to live in Knoxville. If we did it over again I would move outside of Chattanooga.

So far you can still find a lot of rural properties here but if everyone keeps moving here things will change

It all boils down to what you want, make list of your must have and needs, prioritize and then investigate different states. Google info on climate, economy, population etc. There is even sites that tell you how much money you need to live the same as where you are at.


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## Bubba1358 (Nov 6, 2013)

Janis R said:


> My husband is from FL and I grew up in IL, we live in TN, it's the 1/2 way point and hubby is still south of the Mason Dixon line
> 1. No state taxes
> 2. 4 seasons with moderate winters
> 3. Building permits are more lax
> ...


You beat me to it!! I was gonna rec TN for these exact same reasons. I'm about an hour out of Nashville. We just moved here 3 years ago, and I absolutely love it. Used to live in the metro DC area, then east-central IN. TN is way better than both.


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## ognend (Sep 15, 2010)

Bubba1358 said:


> You beat me to it!! I was gonna rec TN for these exact same reasons. I'm about an hour out of Nashville. We just moved here 3 years ago, and I absolutely love it. Used to live in the metro DC area, then east-central IN. TN is way better than both.


It takes a certain mentality to be in certain places. I don't like hunting, I don't like people running around on ATVs, I don't like people letting their dogs run loose everywhere. When we lived in FL, it was *******-free-for-all, people buzzing on ATVs all day long, shooting left and right, so on and so on. I think some rural places are better than others. As always, the "macro" things need to line up first (like climate, water availability etc.) and then the "micro" things need to line up too - your immediate surroundings, your neighbors, population density, what your neighbors do all day etc.


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## Kstornado11 (Mar 17, 2006)

I want to move North, somewhere cooler than Kansas. Would love to do the majority of my grocery shopping at Farmer's Markets & on small organic farms, what I can't grow myself. I have 2 green thumbs, just need space!


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## OHmama (Jun 3, 2013)

I'd consider TN(have friends there)if they got more snow!


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## handymama (Aug 22, 2014)

OHmama said:


> I'd consider TN(have friends there)if they got more snow!


Wasn't last year enough? Couldn't get out of the holler for weeks even in a four wheel drive.


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## OHmama (Jun 3, 2013)

handymama said:


> Wasn't last year enough? Couldn't get out of the holler for weeks even in a four wheel drive.


How much did they get last year?


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## handymama (Aug 22, 2014)

Where I am I remember trudging thru a foot of snow for over a month, and there was at least three or four inches between big storms. It even hit negative ten, which it hasn't in years


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## ChristieAcres (Apr 11, 2009)

ET1 SS said:


> Actually about 80% of the nation.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Your place sounds wonderful!

I had no desire to be in a drought stricken area either, but we moved from 60" of rain per year, to 25" of rain per year. We got everything on our criteria list:

An excellent unrestricted private WELL (pure delicious unfiltered/untreated water)
A property with more than enough Douglas Fir and Western Red Cedar to build our log home out of
Long growing season
An area that allows hunting, fishing, crabbing, shrimping, foraging mushrooms, etc... We have a boat and enjoy fresh seafood!
Quiet location
No CCRs, HOA's, or zoning restrictions (limiting us building a log home)
A lot of sunshine (we are in the Olympic Rain Shadow)
Mild Winters (very little snow, no hurricanes or tornadoes)
Existing Certified Septic System
Power on the property
Close to hiking trails, agriculture, the mountains, the freshwater, the saltwater, and the marina specifically. Shopping is only ten minutes away, yet we are in the foothills of the Olympics.

Priorities indeed dictate where someone will choose to live, but putting price as the major limiting factor? You usually get what you pay for. And that also usually means, giving up some of your priorities to "get a great deal."

We have found it was far better to buy a property that met our criteria than to buy a property and try to make it fit our criteria...

Here, we can build up a 400 sq foot building without a permit. However, a dwelling must be permitted.


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## ET1 SS (Oct 22, 2005)

Kstornado11 said:


> I want to move North, somewhere cooler than Kansas. Would love to do the majority of my grocery shopping at Farmer's Markets & on small organic farms, what I can't grow myself. I have 2 green thumbs, just need space!


We can only get around 80% of our food from our property or local produced.

Keep shopping around, and you will find what you seek.

Good luck 





ChristieAcres said:


> Your place sounds wonderful!


Thank you.





> ... Priorities indeed dictate where someone will choose to live, but putting price as the major limiting factor? You usually get what you pay for. And that also usually means, giving up some of your priorities to "get a great deal."
> 
> We have found it was far better to buy a property that met our criteria than to buy a property and try to make it fit our criteria...
> 
> Here, we can build up a 400 sq foot building without a permit. However, a dwelling must be permitted.


Your place sounds great. I agree with you. 

We once owned a home next to the Olympic Penn, and we had hoped to find the right place there. But I got spooked by the rate land prices were climbing and how property taxes were climbing.

I am on pension, where we live needs to be a place where my pension can support a family, so Cost-Of-Living was a primary concern for us.

In the end, the biggest settlement we had to make was between property that had year-round water flow down a hillside enough to give us hydro-power [property with a steep incline], or flat land. 92% of this entire state is forest, so all properties we looked at here were forested. But we would have liked to have both water flowing down an incline and flat land to live on. We were not able to find a single property that offered both. So we settled on flat land. We had to decide between priorities, go with one and drop the other.


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## SLFarmMI (Feb 21, 2013)

Kstornado11 said:


> Found this old thread via searching for a place to move to homestead. We have our hearts set on Maine, but considering somewhere closer to home (Eastern Kansas) to stay relatively near the grandparents. Don't want to go south, I can't STAND the hot summers here :grump: . What about Wisconsin & Michigan? I saw an article about MI losing the right to farm on small acreage...?
> http://www.inquisitr.com/1235774/mi...farewell-to-backyard-chickens-and-beekeepers/


Michigan has NOT lost the right to farm. Even on small acreages. The brouhaha came over people who were living on properties zoned residential violating zoning restrictions and attempting to have livestock, etc. in violation of those restrictions and then trying to use the RTF laws to justify it. All the MI Dept of Ag said was that the RTF act did not apply in situations like that. People have to follow the zoning laws of wherever they are living or apply to their local government to change the local laws/ordinances. RTF was never intended as a vehicle to defy the local zoning laws and that is what people were trying to do which led to the clarification by the Dept of Ag.


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## Riverdale (Jan 20, 2008)

From the 2nd link 

"The Commission ruled April 28 that local governments have the right to ban livestock from any area zoned *residential* in the state."

No different than the cone-suckers moving from Detroit and wanting me to change.

If it is *zoned* residential, than it is residential.

If it is *zoned* ag, then it is ag.

If you want to live somewhere with no dust or farm smells, go somewhere that is residential.

If you want to raise chickens, rabbits, hogs, live somewhere that is zoned ag.

Don't antagonize the Yuppies in their mcMansions......

Nor antagonize me and my deer/squirrel hunting and processing my chickens and hogs.


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## Mike CHS (Apr 3, 2011)

Bubba1358 said:


> You beat me to it!! I was gonna rec TN for these exact same reasons. I'm about an hour out of Nashville. We just moved here 3 years ago, and I absolutely love it. Used to live in the metro DC area, then east-central IN. TN is way better than both.


 
I want to echo both of these posts.  We bought our place in middle Tennessee (50 miles due north of Huntsville, Alabama about two years ago. We are renovating and only their about 5 days a month. Every person we have met there has shown they will do anything they can to make us feel like we are part of the community. I love our little bit of the hills but I would be hard pressed to find a negative about that part of the world.


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## Freeholder (Jun 19, 2004)

idlehands211 said:


> For reasons I will not bore you with I have decided to take the plunge and homestead. My goal is to purchase a plot of land, build a small cabin, and become completely self-sufficient. This would include a having a garden, a solar power system, and preferably a clean water source nearby. Some timber on the land would also be a plus.
> 
> In my search for land I have been mainly looking in Oregon and northern California. Which state (any of the lower 48) would be best for what I want to do? I am trying to take into account all factors including taxes and any state stipulations I might have to deal with.
> 
> - Please be patient with my replies. I only use the internet about once per week.


I would guess that some of the land in Oregon you have been looking at is in my area (Klamath County). Depending on the exact location, and the improvements, property taxes here aren't necessarily all that bad, so I wouldn't worry about that. (Probably lower than New York, even if you were right in Klamath Falls!) I've got three lots, a total of 4.73 acres, a 950 s.f. house (older double-wide fixed up nice inside), a small barn, chicken house, and pump house, and my property taxes are under $300/year for all of it. It would be less if the property was in one lot. 

However, the climate here probably isn't what you are used to. You'd be wise to take a trip and look at places, and talk to as many local people as possible, before you make a commitment to any one location. Do as much on-line research as you can, too, but feet on the ground are essential! Too many people have bought land here without looking at it in person first, and come out here and are disappointed. One young couple bought two and a half acres, then found out it's not buildable because of 'wetlands' issues (totally manufactured, but it's pretty hard to fight the environmentalists). The lot below my two empty lots has good soil on it, and I'd like to get it some day for pasture/hay, but it's not buildable -- it's in a floodplain from the river. I knew that the minute I laid eyes on it, but the person who bought it off of e-Bay is probably in for a rude shock when they actually come look at it. Property up on the Tableland, just above where we live, is extremely rocky and windy, with very shallow soil most places (and quicksand in a few places when the ground is wet!). Other lots aren't buildable because the government has determined that land is to be left alone for deer or antelope habitat. Some land here is good, but you have to get your feet on the ground and look things over before buying. I think that's important, no matter where you decide to go.

Kathleen


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## fffarmergirl (Oct 9, 2008)

In my experience, your neighbors and friends are going to be at least as important as your physical location, probably more so as long as you don't end up in some place with high taxes and government micromanaging every aspect of your life.

We moved out to an old homestead (which was _literally_ a homestead during the homesteading act) way up North. Any further North and we'd be in Canada. We have enough timber that if we put our noses to the grindstone we could supply all of our own firewood and heat with that - the cold climate has its pluses and minuses.

We've been her 10 years and we're finally getting to know the neighbors well, which is a huge benefit for us because they've been living very sustainably for about 30 years and they know the ins and outs. We're still using electricity and so are they - we'd probably all be better off if we gave up that habit 

Deer season is coming up quick and my neighbor's freezer still had a lot of venison in it from last year. She made me an offer I couldn't refuse - gave me half of her venison if she could come over here and we could can it together, combining our equipment so we could get the job done faster. We got it all cooked and into jars and then she had to go home to do her chores, and left us to do the rest. It worked out great for us. DH is a night owl anyway so he just stayed up and babysat canners until 2:00 am and he'll bring her share to her today.

She's making us the same deal with potatoes and carrots - we help dig and prep them and babysit the canners and she'll give us half. Not a bad deal because I hate growing root vegetables. I grew the tomatoes and peppers and she grew the root veggies. We have goats we milk twice daily and share the milk with them, she has lots of contacts and when people give her things they don't need she passes them our way if she doesn't need them. Just got a very nice horse trough free for instance (not th at horses are the slightest bit sustainable LOL).

They borrow our wood splitter - where we can we try not to duplicate equipment between the two families.

We make goat milk baby formula for two families, and recently one family came upon a lot of free cedar fence posts that they gave to us. 

Even in the homesteading world it's often not only what you know but also who you know. It really, really pays to be kind and generous to your neighbors.


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## fffarmergirl (Oct 9, 2008)

bergere said:


> I have heard Michigan small farmers and most homesteaders, now have a bill that states they can no longer farm or have animals, even chickens.
> Think city people and Gov has gone crazy.....
> 
> http://www.policestateusa.com/2014/michigan-right-to-farm/
> ...


It's not a bill that says we can no longer farm or have animals. They either eliminated or changed the Michigan Right to Farm Act, so now a person who lives within city limits has to obey the city ordinances and can't use the Right to Farm Act to get around them. I think the big change in the law came about largely as a result of some people trying to raise a lot of chickens commercially on the lakeshore in the middle of a hoity toity suburb in the UP. There are very few hoity toity neighborhoods in the UP, which is mostly rural, so it was kind of ridiculous for them to do it where they were doing it. They hired lawyers and I'd heard they were taking it to the Michigan supreme court, then I heard about this change in the law. I'm just assuming the law was changed because of them. They were using the right to farm act to get around their neighbors complaints.

If you live in a place zoned agricultural you can still farm, and if you are out of city limits etc.


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## CraftyLady (Jul 18, 2014)

I really liked The Martian Chicks thread #23. REally good points all. She did her homework.

When Hubby and I started we were homesteaders and didn't know it. Can you say poor? Very poor. Oil drip heating stove and only use the electricity for a few hrs a day to save money and no washer or dryer, again didn't have the money to buy one. The tub was the washer or rather I was. 

Sounds sad, wasn't. 

I grew a garden, canned all that I could. Gleaned the orchards for fruit and sun dried the fruit. Made my bread and was very happy. 
And that's the point. 
Learn how-to do all of those self sufficient things right were you are. 
Do with out spending as much as possible. 
Save that money for your dream spot. 
Learn a trade or a skill that you can make your money to supply your homestead needs.
Work physically hard every day so that the surprise of Homesteading won't put you in bed for a week with an injury. 

As for places to live off the grid. Look to Alaska for some ideas. When they are off the grid they are really off the grid. That off the grid system has to work or they will die. Serious yes, reliable yes, works yes. 

So, I guess my Q to you is - How serious are you about really living off the grid? 
That might determine just where you will live.


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## ColeTrucker (Sep 9, 2014)

Everything you mentioned in your post above is the type of neighbors we pray to have in our future homestead!


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## CraftyLady (Jul 18, 2014)

ColeTrucker said:


> Everything you mentioned in your post above is the type of neighbors we pray to have in our future homestead!


Alaska might be your kinda place. Cold and dark in the winter. Sure, but the neighbors are they're own kinda special. Some don't want to be bothered but, some do. If you're in a pinch a neighbor will be there for you and vise-versa.


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## SLFarmMI (Feb 21, 2013)

fffarmergirl said:


> It's not a bill that says we can no longer farm or have animals. They either eliminated or changed the Michigan Right to Farm Act, so now a person who lives within city limits has to obey the city ordinances and can't use the Right to Farm Act to get around them. I think the big change in the law came about largely as a result of some people trying to raise a lot of chickens commercially on the lakeshore in the middle of a hoity toity suburb in the UP. There are very few hoity toity neighborhoods in the UP, which is mostly rural, so it was kind of ridiculous for them to do it where they were doing it. They hired lawyers and I'd heard they were taking it to the Michigan supreme court, then I heard about this change in the law. I'm just assuming the law was changed because of them. They were using the right to farm act to get around their neighbors complaints.
> 
> If you live in a place zoned agricultural you can still farm, and if you are out of city limits etc.


They didn't eliminate or change the Michigan Right to Farm act. People living in the city limits or in areas zoned residential were never really covered under RTF. They were attempting to use RTF to get around the fact that they didn't want to follow the zoning laws. Wasn't a law change as I understand it but a ruling by MIDARD that they weren't getting involved in those disputes and that the RTF did not apply in those situations. The takeaway lesson in all this is to know your zoning before you buy.


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## Kstornado11 (Mar 17, 2006)

fffarmergirl said:


> In my experience, your neighbors and friends are going to be at least as important as your physical location, probably more so as long as you don't end up in some place with high taxes and government micromanaging every aspect of your life.
> 
> We moved out to an old homestead (which was _literally_ a homestead during the homesteading act) way up North. Any further North and we'd be in Canada. We have enough timber that if we put our noses to the grindstone we could supply all of our own firewood and heat with that - the cold climate has its pluses and minuses.
> 
> ...


That sounds like a wonderful, neighborly set-up!  I would love to be able to live in a similar fashion, to have good,honest folk to barter & trade with, be able to know what I am buying & to know where the food is coming from that I feed my family, so much garbage at grocery stores these days. I really prefer to feed the family organic produce & un-processed foods, & really wish I could find affordable meat that has been humanely raised w/out tons of chemicals & etc. My 11 year old is sensitive to a lot of the dyes & chemicals in "popular" foods, & my 7 year old has cerebral palsy & so I am REALLY leery about what I feed him as well. 
Our first choice would be to move to Maine, but it is SO far from the grandparents here in Kansas, & we really need a place where the winters aren't quite so long, so my 7 year old w/ CP can get out & about. As Kansas is HORRIBLE for kids w/ CP, he gets no therapy except 20 min a week at school, so we have had to make the parks, lakes,woods,playgrounds etc. into his therapy. Need a place where there are plenty of places we can take him to work his legs, climb, walk, practice balancing, go hiking, etc. & that has decent medical facilities within a few ours drive. Presently we have to drive nearly 6 hours to St Louis, MO to see a doctor at Shriners Hospital, as the children's hospital in Kansas City said they "had no options" for him. 
We need a decent place w/ just a bit of land , and prices are pretty high here in Kansas. I also worry about the run-off from all the huge farms, as I really want to grow without chemicals, I'm old-fashioned that way! :happy2:
Would really love some ideas... the plan is for hubby to work & I could garden/farm... he isn't very "earthy". The boys are chomping at the bit to move back to the country!!
I am so glad that the Michigan thing wasn't as severe as( what little) I read! Boy I wish Martin was still around, wasn't he from Wisconsin? That & MI are high on our list.


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## handymama (Aug 22, 2014)

Kstornado11 said:


> That sounds like a wonderful, neighborly set-up!  I would love to be able to live in a similar fashion, to have good,honest folk to barter & trade with, be able to know what I am buying & to know where the food is coming from that I feed my family, so much garbage at grocery stores these days. I really prefer to feed the family organic produce & un-processed foods, & really wish I could find affordable meat that has been humanely raised w/out tons of chemicals & etc. My 11 year old is sensitive to a lot of the dyes & chemicals in "popular" foods, & my 7 year old has cerebral palsy & so I am REALLY leery about what I feed him as well.
> Our first choice would be to move to Maine, but it is SO far from the grandparents here in Kansas, & we really need a place where the winters aren't quite so long, so my 7 year old w/ CP can get out & about. As Kansas is HORRIBLE for kids w/ CP, he gets no therapy except 20 min a week at school, so we have had to make the parks, lakes,woods,playgrounds etc. into his therapy. Need a place where there are plenty of places we can take him to work his legs, climb, walk, practice balancing, go hiking, etc. & that has decent medical facilities within a few ours drive. Presently we have to drive nearly 6 hours to St Louis, MO to see a doctor at Shriners Hospital, as the children's hospital in Kansas City said they "had no options" for him.
> We need a decent place w/ just a bit of land , and prices are pretty high here in Kansas. I also worry about the run-off from all the huge farms, as I really want to grow without chemicals, I'm old-fashioned that way! :happy2:
> Would really love some ideas... the plan is for hubby to work & I could garden/farm... he isn't very "earthy". The boys are chomping at the bit to move back to the country!!
> I am so glad that the Michigan thing wasn't as severe as( what little) I read! Boy I wish Martin was still around, wasn't he from Wisconsin? That & MI are high on our list.


There's an enormous park in Kingsport TN that was made specifically for handicapped kids. I can't even begin to explain how huge and awesome it is. Free entry. Has a wheelchair accessible tree house!


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## Kstornado11 (Mar 17, 2006)

handymama said:


> There's an enormous park in Kingsport TN that was made specifically for handicapped kids. I can't even begin to explain how huge and awesome it is. Free entry. Has a wheelchair accessible tree house!


That's great! I'm so glad they are creating more accessible parks for kids like Gavin! They just opened one like that in a nearby town. There is also a great one inForest Park in St Louis that we take Gavin to when we go to Shriners. I am thinking ahead, knowing that soon the playgrounds won't be enough challenge for him, we will need to move somewhere where he will have more access to the outdoors, he is a Nature Nut. Hard to find a good fit, but I have faith that the perfect spot for us is out there somewhere!


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## ChristieAcres (Apr 11, 2009)

Today, we had visitors from the East Coast. They are absolutely blown away by the beauty of our area, then even more so when they visited our property. As we visited, I answered questions about Sequim and they were very surprised. The fact we have a Certified Raw Milk Dairy, support Agriculture, and have access to everything we do here. They couldn't believe we could be in the mountains in 10 minutes, in town in 10 minutes, at the marina in 6 minutes, at the 7 Cedars Casino in 8 minutes, the beach at Sequim Bay in 10 minutes, the Dungeness Discovery Trail in 6 minutes, and then we started talking about mushrooms and weather. Then, the young men started talking about all the ridiculous restrictions were they lived. The subject of hiking came up, so I told them about the 11 mile hike to the Dungeness Spit Lighthouse (I have gone 3 times). My DD is coming next week to go on that hike and those young men are coming back on vacation next year and will go on that hike. 

We all have criteria that varies, but we didn't settle when we moved here, but insured we would be happy enough to stay here the rest of our lives.


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## Bellyman (Jul 6, 2013)

Christie, you're really yankin' on the ol' heart strings here.  I have never been to Sequim but it's high on the list of places I'd like to visit if I ever get close to that area.

I had an acquaintance years ago, Del Fancrich (don't remember if I spelled that right), that had a piano shop there. Always wanted to visit for that reason since I was in the piano business for a large part of 2 decades. He spoke fondly of "Squim" as he said it.

Right now, family keeps us pretty much on the eastern half. We're not committed to spending our entire lives here, though, if something makes itself attractive at the right time in our lives.


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## MoniqueA. (Jan 21, 2013)

We are hoping to end up in Iowa Hill California within the next couple of years.

It's the last town in the United States to get Landline phone service..

Great place to homestead


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## ET1 SS (Oct 22, 2005)

MoniqueA. said:


> We are hoping to end up in Iowa Hill California within the next couple of years.
> 
> It's the last town in the United States to get Landline phone service..
> 
> Great place to homestead


When I was shopping for land around here, I found that generally you could not get a landline until after you got powerlines strung to your property.

I looked at properties where you would have to string powerlines 10 miles or more, if you wanted grid power. Phone lines could be discussed after that.

Obviously many townships do not have powerlines strung to them yet.

I do not know of any statistics showing how many townships nationwide still do not have power or phone lines.



If Iowa Hill, CA got phonelines in 2010, making them the latest town in the nation to get it.

Then in 2011 Gnat Sneeze ID got phonelines, it would make them the latest town.


We have many townships here in Maine that do not have power or phonelines, yet.


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## Barbara B (Jul 9, 2020)

Are you still happy with your choice of WV?



simi-steading said:


> Depends on what part of the country you like best, and what you are looking for..
> 
> We chose WV for the for the following reasons...
> 
> ...


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## starrjack (Jul 7, 2020)

Everyone has the different opinion and experience.I am also living in Texas.After 2 year of homesteading,i am really enjoying the place.


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