# Why not just one lgd? observations



## wendle (Feb 22, 2006)

Observations on lgds. It's 9:30 AM and I hear my lgd barking, usually I don't hear him this time of day. He is in hot pursuit of a coyote. Coyote looks like about 30 lbs or so I'm guessing. I didn't think Zeus could keep up with it being the bulkier dog, but he does. He can't turn as fast though, and the coyote gets ahead for a bit on the turns, then Zeus gains ground again. This went on for a while through 3 different fields that I could see. He never did catch it, or come in contact that I could see, though he was often very close. If he had another dog to help or distract it, I think things would have ended differently. As it is the coyote being a canine that doesn't easily give up will surely be back. The first I saw of the two was in a field that I had three sheep separated from the flock for dog training with a mini donkey. The donkey did not chase the coyote, and even if he had he wouldn't have been able to get through the same places Zeus could to pursue it. Zeus is usually in the back with the main flock, but must have noticed the coyote. 
I have never seen Zeus go after a herding dog like this, he must know the difference. Too bad I'm not a better shot with a gun. I do have another lgd now , but she is too young to do any good yet. There were no sheep losses or injuries, but I can see Zeus has to work pretty hard as a single lgd. He didn't stay tight with the sheep, but went in pursuit of the coyote. He did give up chase when the coyote was off the property. Then he went back to his main group of sheep. 
Just thought I would share my experience and observations of today.


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## Maura (Jun 6, 2004)

Pretty good observations and quite an exciting morning. I've read that wolves or coyotes will distract one dog while the others move in to the unprotected flock. Not all donkeys will act as protectors. I'm guessing that your donkey sees Zeus as the protector and he may not become aggressive unless Zeus is removed from the picture.


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## Royal.T.Yak (Apr 20, 2012)

I've heard many people say that 2 is too few, and three is a good start. I suppose it depends on your situation.

Here we have coyotes, cougars, bears, and wolves for the biggies. *****, skunks, mink, eagles, etc. are lesser issues (just for the chickens).

I have a single LGD and his sole purpose here is to alert and make it look like just enough work for a predator/stray/human to deter them from entering the Yak pen. Truth is, anything that does has a better chance getting gored by my bull than taken down by my LGD. However- my yaks are all but silent, and if there is a problem, I'd like to know it! That's why I have the LGD.

If I had small, hornless stock I would have one or two more LGDs with the predator load around here.


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## wendle (Feb 22, 2006)

I might end up having to get a third as Zeus is starting to show his age a little. Poor guy came up lame later on that day. After watching him on that coyote, I have to wonder if a Llama or donkey would have the drive of a predator to pursue a coyote like that. The ones I have had in the past tended to stay right with the stock. The coyotes did find a way around that just like they are testing Zeus and his limits. 
It was very interesting to actually see him in action though, usually everything happens at night and I just take it for granted he does his job.


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## fffarmergirl (Oct 9, 2008)

The coyotes keep our two running all night. There's no way one dog could keep up with all the work at night. Our dogs are getting old and we should get another one . . . . it's just so much trouble finding a good dog.


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## Batt (Sep 8, 2006)

fffarmergirl said:


> Our dogs are getting old and we should get another one . . . . it's just so much trouble finding a good dog.


You really got that right...Batt is now 8 years old, but he still has his bluff in on all the coyotes in the area. Just really hate the thought of starting over again.


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## Maura (Jun 6, 2004)

A donkey will not take down a coyote. They will try to run it off, and once it is on it's way, they will return to the flock. They will bite and kick, but they prefer to stay within sight of the herd.


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## wendle (Feb 22, 2006)

Maura said:


> A donkey will not take down a coyote. They will try to run it off, and once it is on it's way, they will return to the flock. They will bite and kick, but they prefer to stay within sight of the herd.


I've noticed that too, same with the Llama(staying with the group). This makes me wonder how effective they will be in certain situations. They are just a deterrent, so the coyote lives to hunt another day. Is this enough to completely stop him from returning for another try? Guess it depends on the size of the flock, and the local coyotes.


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## pancho (Oct 23, 2006)

Many times a deterrent is the best way to go.
If you kill every coyote that comes around others will replace them. You will continually be killing coyotes. If you scare them off a few times they will look for something else to eat. No more replacement coyotes to worry about.

Lately I have noticed way too many LGDs being used by people who have really no use for them. Some times they are more of a menace than any predator.


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## Kits&Kids (Feb 10, 2012)

try to get some akbash blood to help out.They are breed for speed and leave the pyrs in the dust.:rock:Ihave both.


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## oberhaslikid (May 13, 2002)

I Have 4 and I love to watch them work. The female rounds up and takes the 13 goats to the barn as the 3 males ward off whatever it may be.
Even if we are at the neighbors I have watched them.They will place theirselves at the fence line with the goats behind them and the female in amongst them. If anything spooks them they work their majic. Shes off with the goats and the boys do their job. Its facinating.


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## kasilofhome (Feb 10, 2005)

Ok, We had 3 dogs for years and they did the tag team with one with the goats.The three aged out and faced life. Time for new ones. We are picking up 2 GP pups but we could get 3 if I act fast but training them all together good or bad? 

With the 2 one will stay with the me at the farm and one will go with DS to work for the summer commercial fishing on a beach site. This way I was only going to have one pup to work with and the other would be coming back and forth every few days.


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## CageFreeFamily (Jul 19, 2012)

wendle said:


> I might end up having to get a third as Zeus is starting to show his age a little.


We lost our eldest (7yr), and most amazing, LGD Pyr to a coyote pack this winter. After his partner ran off last year we replaced with a pup, and that pup was just too inexperienced to help.  Our older male worked his tail off in her absence and was quite obviously training the pup well, but he was too old to be handling a pack all alone. We live in an area with large coyote packs in addition to the mountain lions and bears. I would never, on purpose, run only one LGD where there are large predators. Once we lost our eldest male we had to move the pup into an electrified fence with the flock while we search out a partner for him. As soon as I can afford it I will never have less than three in this environment.

Losing our eldest was tragic, as far as LGD goes he was perfection. I wonder how many years it will be before I can get another dog with such a set of characteristics. :Bawling:


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## MOgal (Jul 27, 2002)

We're down to 3 right now, having to euthanize our almost 13 y/o male in January. Then one of the remaining girls needed surgery so we were down to two and I had some sleepless nights because the injured dog could go from yard to pasture/barn to back up whichever dog needed her. Our Pyrs are 3, 5 and 6 years old and we'll be looking for another one soon enough. Actually, we bought the oldest, the 5 y/o was a rescue and someone DUMPED the 3 y/o at our house late one night. She was only 8 weeks old and very thin. Oddly enough, it's only been the last year or so that she's begun to trust us but she's turning into a crackerjack guardian. 

After a series of break-ins at weekend homes owned by absentee owners, a deputy sheriff stopped to ask if I had seen or heard anything at the place across the road that had been hit. This man was tall, broad and intimidating in his uniform but he refused to enter the yard, even with me there. With a grin, he said, "Mrs. ____, with these dogs on duty, you never have to worry about an intruder." I hope he's right.


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## loli (Aug 14, 2011)

We always run 2 in each pasture, 3 if one if a new pup. Works out really well. New pups always have to live with the chickens for a couple of weeks so they learn they have to leave them alone as well.


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## lissapell (Mar 2, 2012)

Kits&Kids said:


> try to get some akbash blood to help out.They are breed for speed and leave the pyrs in the dust.:rock:Ihave both.


Do you find the Akbash temperament to be equal to that of the Pry, in regards to children? My Husband wants to get Caucasians and I will not let him do to the extreme aggression level of these dogs. I am sure he could handle the dog but I would prefer for friends to NOT get eaten when they come to visit.


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## Grazer (Dec 23, 2011)

lissapell said:


> Do you find the Akbash temperament to be equal to that of the Pry, in regards to children? My Husband wants to get Caucasians and I will not let him do to the extreme aggression level of these dogs. I am sure he could handle the dog but I would prefer for friends to NOT get eaten when they come to visit.


With Caucasian Shepherds (Ovcharka), if they've been introduced to your friends when they were puppies, then in general they'll be very accepting of these friends as long as you or your husband are around. And these friends don't attempt to enter the property on their own, unannounced.
This breed is good with "their own" children, but not so much with children they don't know.

Complete strangers that come to visit is a different story though, some mature Caucasian Shepherds will tolerate them as long as their owner says it's ok, but some will not.
I know of people who have such Caucasian Shepherds and have to put them in a separate room/space, each time complete strangers come over.
Our male gets even more protective when my husband is not at home.

They're also very pack oriented dogs, and if you're not in charge mentally, then they will try to be. 
Because they are so territorial, a minimum of 6ft sturdy fence is a must with this breed.

It is believed that the Caucasians Shepherds are the most naturally human aggressive LGD breed (and probably one of the most naturally human aggressive breeds in general). So generally speaking it all depends on what you want from a dog and if you're willing to make sure your new puppy will not be a threat to outsiders when he/she grows up.
If your husband really wants one but you are not so sure, then I think it would be a good idea if the two of you would try and visit a kennel and experience them in person (that is if you haven't already done that).


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