# Anyone else feed alfalfa cubes?



## Jackie (Jun 20, 2008)

Alright. So I got some really good hay from a local farmer for my rabbits. I have been trying to feed them more hay and less pellets because its cheaper. I had been feeding a HUGE amount of pellets. So I switched to mostly hay but the waste was scary! So much fell through the wires. I have hay piles all over on the ground. Planning on putting it all into buckets and taking it to the horse pasture. I figure my horses might be interested in picking through it. 

Anyway. the hay is giving me a terrible runny nose. lol! I have never been allergic to hay before, but something about this stuff is making me sick. AND 3 of my rabbits pretend to have snuffles and scare the daylights out of me when I give them hay. I yank them out of their cages, remove all hay, quarantine them and they are fine the next day. As long as I fed them just pellets they were fine. sigh. 

So I decided to try alfalfa cubes for those ones. And then I decided to give all the rabbits alfalfa cubes. They seem to really love them. I normally feed my rabbits once a day, but with it being cold I have to go out at least twice and thaw their water (soon to be 3 times). They are always looking for something to eat the second time. So I have been tossing in a couple alfalfa cubes just to make them think they are getting something. 

So here is a stupid question. Could rabbits live on just alfalfa cubes? Or do they need pellets too? I really don't care either way. I am not about to starve them. Just wondering if they are virtually the same thing as pellets, they just take longer to eat. 

Oh and for the record, growing babies and nursing does get all they can eat pellets. I am not going to mess around with that.


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## Ed Norman (Jun 8, 2002)

We've only fed cubes for years. Of course we give them various treats in season, but cubes are the main course every day. No problems.


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## Guest (Nov 14, 2010)

Back when I was raising rabbits for the pet market, pellets were so expensive and wasteful. So I tried an experiment. I started feeding them 20% all natural protein cattle cubes, and alfalfa cubes. I just kept some of each in the cages.

It was a successful experiment. I never went back to pellets. They had strong healthy litters. And it was so much cheaper to feed them that way.


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## trinityoaks (Sep 17, 2008)

I grain-feed my rabbits. I tried alfalfa pellets and cubes with my rabbits (as you say, they can waste a lot of hay), but my rabbits didn't like them. Do you have hay racks for their cages? That seems to help with the wasting issue.

As for the sneezing, I have the same problem, and the hay makes a couple of my rabbits sneeze, too, but we're all fine once the hay dust settles. I don't think it's the hay that causes the sneezing--just the dust. Wheat dust does it to me, too.

I don't think I would feed ONLY alfalfa cubes. I'm not convinced it provides complete nutrition for them. I would still feed pellets or grain.


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## lonelyfarmgirl (Feb 6, 2005)

I have been wondering this myself. I know alfalfa cubes only wouldn't suffice, because they need a balanced diet. I just had to switch feeds and I cant find anything even close in price to what I was buying before.

I do have 4 rabbits in a ground tractor, and instead of giving them pellets, I have a few times given them a scoop of goat grain. It is BOSS, oats, wheat, cracked corn, and a vege. protein pellet, probably soy, which sucks.
But they ate it and arent seeming to suffer.

TO, what is your grain mix, and how is the condition of your animals? what do you do with yours?


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## SquashNut (Sep 25, 2005)

I have fed alfalfa hay and the rabbits got too fat. I would see if they have the timothy/alfalfa mix cubes for your breeding stock.
I bought cattle cubes and they were only 14% and didn't have hay in them. They look like tan colored side walk chalk. I throw a few in to the fryer pens every few days, but I am not sure I will buy them again even though they were only $4.99 for a 50 pound bag.
You cann't feed just hay cubes becuse you won't be feeding the mineral and vitamin supplements that your bucks and does need to reproduce.


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## KAM (Sep 13, 2007)

If the hay is not to dusty. You can shake the dust out. That is what we do for dusty horse hay.


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## PulpFaction (Jul 23, 2009)

A good quality Alfalfa hay by itself is 20+% protein, I believe. Not sure what the percentage on the cubes are, but it should say on the bag. 

I think blending the alfalfa cubes with some grains, perhaps a little BOSS, and whatever fresh foods you can provide should be a perfectly adequate diet. I would still try to find some better hay, though. 

You can figure up the protein and what amounts of the grain/alfalfa cubes to mix using this app: http://homesteadapps.com/app/free/feedcalc/pearsonsquare.php

BOSS is pretty high in protein, but it's also VERY high in fat, so use it sparingly if you use it at all. My rabbits are kept outdoors and need the extra fat, so I blend it into their breakfast.


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## trinityoaks (Sep 17, 2008)

lonelyfarmgirl said:


> TO, what is your grain mix, and how is the condition of your animals?


The recipe I use is based on the one from the late Oren Reynolds, as outlined in the Bob Bennett book (published by Storey). I haven't been able to find one ingredient (misplaced my book and don't recall what it is), but here's what I use: 6 parts whole oats, 1 part wheat, 1 part barley (crimped is what I can get here), and in cold weather I also add 1 part BOSS. I buy the ingredients in 50-lb bags from the feed store and mix it up in 5-gallon buckets. I give them one tuna-can full each evening. They also get free-choice alfalfa hay for their protein (my buns don't seem to like grass hay for some reason). If you grain-feed, make sure you also give them a salt/mineral block (I get the 4-lb blocks in the goat section of the feed store). I supplement with bunny-safe fresh greens when available, and an occasional small apple for a treat.

They seem to thrive on this regimen. My primary purpose for grain-feeding is so that if push came to shove, I could grow all my own rabbit feed (as well as my family's food).


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## lonelyfarmgirl (Feb 6, 2005)

I mixed some whole oats in with their feed once (well, for a few days), because I was out of feed, mill was closed and I had it on hand. this was a few months ago. they wouldn't touch them. Not a single animal, I have 70 or 80?. they either left them in the feeder, or threw them out.

what kind do you raise, and how is their grow out on the mixed grain? I may try something like this on only a few. my rabbits get hay 5 out of 7 days anyway. its usually a mix hay. alfalfa, clover, grasses. the same stuff I give my dairy goats, but it varies depending on where in the field it came from.

except in the summer. when it gets real hot, they cant stand the hay, and prefer to not have it.


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## Ed Norman (Jun 8, 2002)

The hay cubes my friend makes are pure registered weed free alfalfa. Nothing added, nothing less.


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## PulpFaction (Jul 23, 2009)

May rabbits not only held condition, but GAINED condition on my mixed grain recipe. I used Calf Manna as the primary protein, though, because the alfalfa pellets were a little low in protein for my taste and there was no good alfalfa hay available. I have Thriantas, Silver Fox and a Flemish and they all did well on that, but I quit doing it because I didn't see the point if I was still going to use Calf Manna pellets.

I still feed a few tablespoons of a mix of oats, BOSS, and a little calf manna for breakfast in the morning. They like breakfast more than dinner.  (Pellets) 

When I feed grains mixed with pellets, the rabbits tended to pick out one or the other. I believe if offered both, most rabbits will pick the one they're used to and may take a few days to adjust to the change.


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## trinityoaks (Sep 17, 2008)

lonelyfarmgirl said:


> what kind do you raise,


Californians and Brazilians, and now we have a Standard Rex buck.



> how is their grow out on the mixed grain?


Our first two litters are just now 7 months old. One is a litter of pure Cals, and the other is a litter of Cal-Zil crosses. I don't have a scale yet, and I really don't have enough experience to know what's "normal" or "recommended" grow out for either breed. The youngsters all look healthy and in good condition, though, and we just sold four of the eight Cals. The crosses will go to freezer camp, hopefully this coming week.



> I may try something like this on only a few.


My adults all came from breeders who were feeding pellets. I put them on the same pellets for the first few weeks, then started with a tsp or two of the grain mix on top of their pellets. I gradually increase the grain and decrease the pellets over another few weeks, until they're getting straight grain. Our young ones have never had pellets.


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## freeb (Jul 25, 2009)

we feed cubes! it makes them a nice chew item plus fills the belly!


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## jjgrappler (Jul 26, 2010)

trinityoaks said:


> The recipe I use is based on the one from the late Oren Reynolds, as outlined in the Bob Bennett book (published by Storey). I haven't been able to find one ingredient (misplaced my book and don't recall what it is), but here's what I use: 6 parts whole oats, 1 part wheat, 1 part barley (crimped is what I can get here), and in cold weather I also add 1 part BOSS. I buy the ingredients in 50-lb bags from the feed store and mix it up in 5-gallon buckets.


I looked in my book and the other part your missing is one part ****** corn, whatever that is. Is that all you feed your rabbits the grain and free choice hay?


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## trinityoaks (Sep 17, 2008)

jjgrappler said:


> I looked in my book and the other part your missing is one part ****** corn, whatever that is.


That's it! I've seen some online articles that seem to say it's the same thing as sorghum, but I haven't found anything definitive. I also haven't been able to find any around here, or sorghum, either, which is surprising since sorghum is grown here for cattle feed.



> Is that all you feed your rabbits the grain and free choice hay?


For the most part, that and a salt/mineral block. (And of course, all the water they want, with ACV added at the rate of about 1 Tbsp per quart.) I do give them small quantities of bunny-safe greens when they're available (around here, that's mostly limited to bindweed), and an occasional small apple for a treat.


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## jjgrappler (Jul 26, 2010)

Alright thanks I was looking at that in my book after I saw your post. It says he would supplement the grain with pellets. I am interested in using this grain mixture to use in addition to hay and a mineral block.


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## trinityoaks (Sep 17, 2008)

jjgrappler said:


> Alright thanks I was looking at that in my book after I saw your post. It says he would supplement the grain with pellets.


I think I remember something about that as well, but you have to remember that before there were pellets, people fed their rabbits grains and greens. I think there was also mention of terramycin crumbles in the grain mixture. I don't believe in routinely medicating my rabbits (or my family).



> I am interested in using this grain mixture to use in addition to hay and a mineral block.


As always, take things slowly when changing a rabbit's diet, to allow its digestive system to adjust. Rapid changes are never good.


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## jjgrappler (Jul 26, 2010)

That's what I thought with the the pellets. TO I forgot to mention the terramyacin part and I believe as well as you that routine medication is not the answer, its a problem. 5 years in the medical field have shown me that. Have a good day I have to call my feed store tomorrow.


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## jjgrappler (Jul 26, 2010)

TO I have called around looking for ****** corn and am unable to find it.  Any ideas?????


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## trinityoaks (Sep 17, 2008)

jjgrappler said:


> TO I have called around looking for ****** corn and am unable to find it.  Any ideas?????


No, I'm in the same boat. As I mentioned, there seems to be some indication that it's the same as sorghum (no proof), but I haven't been able to find that, either. I've just been leaving it out of the grain mixture. It hasn't seem to hurt the buns any--I've been using this mixture for almost two years now.


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## Guest (Nov 17, 2010)

I found this definition on many sites when I googled:

Dictionary: kafÂ·fir kafÂ·ir

n.
A tropical African variety of sorghum (Sorghum bicolor) grown in dry regions and in the Great Plains for grain and forage. Also called ****** corn.

[Short for ****** corn, probably translation of Afrikaans kafferkoring : ******, ****** (from Arabic k&#257;fir; see ******) + koring, corn.]


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## Guest (Nov 17, 2010)

Picture of ******:

http://www.mdidea.com/products/proper/sorghum_bicolor23.jpg

Looks like milo to me.


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## jjgrappler (Jul 26, 2010)

trinityoaks said:


> No, I'm in the same boat. As I mentioned, there seems to be some indication that it's the same as sorghum (no proof), but I haven't been able to find that, either. I've just been leaving it out of the grain mixture. It hasn't seem to hurt the buns any--I've been using this mixture for almost two years now.


I seen that and the feed store I called stated they had sorghum seed, would that work? Also the wheat is that all it is? I asked for wheat and they gave me a price. How much does the 50 pounds bags make of the grain and how long does it last?


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## jjgrappler (Jul 26, 2010)

Thank you ladycat I saw that after I typed in ****** corn in google.


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## trinityoaks (Sep 17, 2008)

ladycat said:


> A tropical African variety of sorghum (Sorghum bicolor) grown in dry regions and in the Great Plains for grain and forage.


Thanks! I know sorghum is grown here (I can see fields of it not far from me), but darned if I can find any at the feed store or grain coop!


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## trinityoaks (Sep 17, 2008)

jjgrappler said:


> I seen that and the feed store I called stated they had sorghum seed, would that work?


As long as it's not treated (seed often is treated with pesticides, etc.), it should be ok.



> Also the wheat is that all it is?


Yup--whole-grain wheat. The kind I can find here is red wheat. I've even cleaned it and ground it for flour and baked with it.



> How much does the 50 pounds bags make of the grain and how long does it last?


You know, I've never really paid close attention. I should, though. I know I go through a 50-lb bag of oats pretty quickly, but you use 6 times as much of that as you do the other grains. I would say that a 50-lb bag of oats will make about 8 or 9 5-gallon buckets of grain mix, so the other grains will go six times as far.

I currently have 18 rabbits (one is new to our rabbitry and still on pellets). They each get one tuna-can of grain mix each evening, about 1 cup. A 5-gallon bucket is equal to 80 cups. If they don't clean up all their grain by the next evening, I don't give them as much at the next feeding.

My 18 rabbits also go through about one flake of alfalfa hay per day.


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## jjgrappler (Jul 26, 2010)

trinityoaks said:


> As long as it's not treated (seed often is treated with pesticides, etc.), it should be ok.
> 
> 
> Yup--whole-grain wheat. The kind I can find here is red wheat. I've even cleaned it and ground it for flour and baked with it.
> ...


That sounds delicious with the wheat lol. I have to call the gentleman I get my hay from and make sure I can still get some more. The feed store that I called sold Barley in 100 pound bags so I would have some more. Does it last a long time in the 5 gallon buckets? I would imagine so since the lids are airtight.


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## trinityoaks (Sep 17, 2008)

jjgrappler said:


> The feed store that I called sold Barley in 100 pound bags


Wow! I hope you or someone in your house can lift and carry those bags! 50 lbs is pushing it for me, although I do have several big, strapping sons to help me.



> Does it last a long time in the 5 gallon buckets? I would imagine so since the lids are airtight.


I mix up only 3 buckets at a time and leave the rest of the grain in their sacks. I just put the lids on loosely, but my buns and their feed are in the garage. When I have a real rabbit barn and more room, I plan to mix up the feed in a large trash can so that I can use full sacks in one batch.


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## Safado (Jun 15, 2009)

I've been feeding the pellets to my weaned bunnies, and males exclusively for about 3 months. I still feed pellets to the does, just to be safe. It was an economical choice for me. I bought the cubes for my sheep, when it became cheaper than baled hay here ($150 per ton), and immediately started feeding it to the rabbits. So $3.50 per 50Lbs vs $11 for the pellets, the Cubes seem like a great deal to me, especially since the rabbits seem to love them.


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## trinityoaks (Sep 17, 2008)

Man, what do y'all do to get your bunnies to eat the alfalfa cubes? Mine won't touch them! It seems to me that there would be so much less waste if I could feed cubes instead of loose hay.


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## Jackie (Jun 20, 2008)

Safado said:


> I've been feeding the pellets to my weaned bunnies, and males exclusively for about 3 months. I still feed pellets to the does, just to be safe. It was an economical choice for me. I bought the cubes for my sheep, when it became cheaper than baled hay here ($150 per ton), and immediately started feeding it to the rabbits. So $3.50 per 50Lbs vs $11 for the pellets, the Cubes seem like a great deal to me, especially since the rabbits seem to love them.



Wow. Here a 50lb bag of cubes is $10 and the pellets are between $14 and $17.50. Depending on where I have to go.


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## Ed Norman (Jun 8, 2002)

trinityoaks said:


> Man, what do y'all do to get your bunnies to eat the alfalfa cubes? Mine won't touch them! It seems to me that there would be so much less waste if I could feed cubes instead of loose hay.


A lady once gave us a hairy dustmop of a rabbit that she had found years before. She warned us it would only eat pellets, not hay cubes. We brought him home on Saturday. Sunday he didn't eat. Monday he tried a bite of cube. By Tuesday, those cubes were the best tasting things he ever saw. He lived out his life for several more years happy and hairy.


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## Safado (Jun 15, 2009)

trinityoaks said:


> Man, what do y'all do to get your bunnies to eat the alfalfa cubes? Mine won't touch them! It seems to me that there would be so much less waste if I could feed cubes instead of loose hay.


Are you feeding pellets free choice? I guess I would put some of the cubes in the same place you normally have the pellets, then withhold pellets for a day or two. Unless your rabbits are very picky I can't imagine them turning their noses up if they are hungry. They may just need a little encouragement to figure out the are food.


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## Safado (Jun 15, 2009)

Jackie said:


> Wow. Here a 50lb bag of cubes is $10 and the pellets are between $14 and $17.50. Depending on where I have to go.


I think the guy I buy the cubes from sells a 50lbs bag for 7.50. I buy them by the pickup truck load for my sheep though, so get the bulk rate of $150 a ton. 

As for the pellets, I buy them from a local company, which makes them a bit cheaper than if I were buying the national brands at even the feed store here.


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