# Can Anyone Identify This Baby Snake I Found on My Patio? Pics!



## Boleyz (Sep 7, 2004)

OK,

Here's a couple of pictures of a baby snake that crawled up on my patio tonight. It's alive in the first one (I picked it up by the tail like Steve Irwin used to do)...and dead in the second one (trusty Leatherman)

It was brown with no markings...I dunno what a baby copperhead looks like, but this one was copper-colored...I hope there's not a big copperhead in my yard. My kids swim in a pool about 40 feet from where I found this little guy.

Can anyone identify it for me?


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## BaronsMom (May 22, 2005)

Its pupils are round correct? In our area, that's a good thing...but don't know about where you live.

The following Snake ID site is for Nebraska, but will give you a good idea what to look for on the snake to decide if dangerous or not...

Snake photos and key - http://snrs.unl.edu/herpneb/snake/basicsnakekey.html

Description of what to look for with a venomous snake:

http://snrs.unl.edu/herpneb/snake/Poisonsnakes1.html


Good luck


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## Ravenlost (Jul 20, 2004)

It is NOT a Copperhead, nor is it a poisonous snake. You can tell that by the shape of the head. I think it's just a Brown Snake:

http://www.kentuckysnakes.org/snake_details.cfm?snake_number=4&option=patterned

http://www.camo-store.com/US poisonous snakes.htm


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## Boleyz (Sep 7, 2004)

Yeah, I did some searching and came to the same conclusion...Thanks!


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## susieM (Apr 23, 2006)

Small snakes are not always babies. Vipers are small, for instance.


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## Ozark-Dew (Aug 4, 2005)

glad it was not a copperhead. two nights ago we found one just outside the door, coiled up against the house, 6 inches from the screen door. Thankfully our son heard it and was able to dispatch it before anyone was struck.


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## comfortablynumb (Nov 18, 2003)

why did ya kill it?


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## unregistered6474 (Apr 21, 2003)

Poor little snake


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## big rockpile (Feb 24, 2003)

I'm thinking Earth Snake

http://www.mdc.mo.gov/nathis/herpetol/snake/snake1.htm

big rockpile


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## Danaus29 (Sep 12, 2005)

Not a Brown Snake, they have black markings on their backs. Earth Snake:
http://www.kentuckysnakes.org/snake_details.cfm?snake_number=8&option=solid

This is a young copperhead, note the yellow tail and diamond shaped head:
http://www.snakesandfrogs.com/scra/snakes/images/scopperjuv4.jpg


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## Anita in NC (May 10, 2002)

My rule is that I kill poisonous snakes but not harmless ones like, king snakes, rat snakes, worm snakes, corn snakes etc....

I kill the poisonous ones because I have small kids and a dog. I've trained the kids to come get me if they see a snake and I'll identify it. Often if they are small and harmless we'll pick them up and have a look at them.

Guess, I'm wondering why you would kill a harmless snake.


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## DrippingSprings (Sep 22, 2004)

My rule is I dont kill any snakes. I dont see any reason to kill them. They serve a function. So I leave them alone. 

Now free ranging cats? SSS They are singlehandedly responsibe for the very serious decline and possible extinctionof many of the birds.


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## titansrunfarm (Aug 14, 2005)

Sad you killed it before finding out if it was a beneficial critter. I'm told skinny head, round pupils are usually harmless.


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## gracegarden (Mar 30, 2007)

Great Website Rockpile! Love it!
I always called them "brown worm snakes" because of their color and diet.
They are very plentiful in my compost area.

I was thinking "flathead" variety, but then read the part about rocky areas. That doesn't go with the environment where I find them.

Anyway, love the website!


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## matt633 (Apr 11, 2007)

Absolutely NOT a copperhead. I have been around them all my life (so much that daddy kept a shovel on the porch to chop their heads off w/!). A copperhead would already have markings, or crossbands,even as a baby. Juveniles also have yellow on their tails (very noticeable). and even a young copperhead, would have a more diamond shaped head.

This snake is nonpoisonous, probably a coachwhip or earth snake.

I noticed that you were in KY, you may want to check into getting this book: Snakes of the Southeast by Whit Gibbons and Mike Dorcas. We bought it for our kids to learn about snake ID when we bought our land. My dd10 can tell you what any snake we find in our yard is! It is great, it has lots of pics, size, desciption, what they eat, habitat, and best of all a map of where they have been found so far! It would be good for you to learn to ID snakes so you don't kill the "good" ones. We have a 6-7 ft king snake that we will not kill (unless it gets in the chicken coop) b/c he will eat the poisonous snakes (which must be working as I haven't seen any since we have lived here and I KNOW copperheads are abundant in this area!). Besides, I prefer to know what I am picking up before I do so!!! Even if you don't familiarize yourself w/ many, learn all you can about the few poisonous snakes in the southeast (copperhead, cottonmouth/water mocassin, timber/canebrake, pygmy, or eastern diamondback , rattlers, and coral snakes). Those are the ones that matter!!

Rachael


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## Anita in NC (May 10, 2002)

I have killed the poisonous ones as I said because I have kids and a dog. 

When we first moved here we had a lot of copperheads and after you pay a few hundred dollars in vet bills because the dogs got bitten you take care of the copperheads.

One time one of my dogs got bitten on the tongue by a copperhead and her tongue swelled so much that she could barely breath. This was on a Saturday night at midnight when I'm 9 months pregnant and DH is out with his friends. Nothing like trying to drag a 80 pound dog to the car when you're about to pop.

If I didn't have kids or a dog (use to be dogs) I'd leave all the snakes alone.


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## Boleyz (Sep 7, 2004)

I figured some of ya would bust my chops for killing it, but if I find any kind of unknown snake 30 feet from where my kids run and play barefooted in their swimming suits, well, he's a gonner. Sorry if that chaps ya up.

Here's the biggest water mocassin I ever saw in my life. I killed it in June at Lake Sinclare in GA where my parents have a place on the lake. He was in the little dockhouse. I killed him with my trusty mattock...


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## Cabin Fever (May 10, 2002)

Hey, Boleyz...nice flip flops (*snicker*)


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## MTTMATSUA (May 23, 2007)

A question re: these snakes...

I am a native Californian, but as you can see we are planning on moving east in a couple of years. My question is what snakes should we watch for in Indiana??

Out here it's rattlesnakes, gopher snakes and garter/garden snakes...and a mess of lizards (we are in east County San Diego, so very desert-like)

I may miss snakes that make sounds :lookout: if I am having to watch each step! teehee!!

Also, if anyone has any info on the spiders out there and what they look like that would be great!

(Mammals I can deal with...grew up in NorCal in the mtn's w/ bear, mountain lions and elk...)

thanks a bunch!!!!
 Bonnie the big chicken!!


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## patnewmex (Aug 11, 2006)

What's the matter with those flip flops????????? (harrumph!)


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## Boleyz (Sep 7, 2004)

Cabin Fever said:


> Hey, Boleyz...nice flip flops (*snicker*)


It takes a "Real Man" to attack a large water mocassin in flip-flops, shorts and armed only with a mattock...


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## Gailann Schrader (May 10, 2002)

There aren't that many poisonous snakes here in Indiana. Some water moccasins, rattlesnakes, and copperheads. Rattlesnakes aren't much found in Northern Indiana... But it's possible... I love those little grey ring necked snakes. I found quite a few of them one day. Pretty little things. Very calm...

Go here:

http://www.freewebs.com/snakesofindiana/tellingthedifference.htm


and another site sez:

Because there are so few poisonous snakes in Indiana, we can impose some simple rules to help you to identify them. These rules will not work outside of this state or with exotic species. Indianaâs poisonous snakes are all very heavy-bodied â they look âfat.â They also have broad, spade-shaped heads that are distinctly wider than their narrow necks. The heads of nonvenomous snakes are typically about the same width as their bodies. Such distinctions are not completely reliable, as some species such as water snakes can be rather stout, and many species of snakes will flatten their heads when bluffing, giving the head a spade-like shape as well. Thus, having had a good meal should not be a death sentence for snake (but then, neither should being venomous!). The pupils of the venomous snakes of Indiana are vertical slits rather than round. This distinction may not hold elsewhere, but works in this state.


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## Cabin Fever (May 10, 2002)

...and you've done a pretty decent job concealing that 1911 there on your strongside.


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## matt633 (Apr 11, 2007)

Boleyz said:


> I figured some of ya would bust my chops for killing it, but if I find any kind of unknown snake 30 feet from where my kids run and play barefooted in their swimming suits, well, he's a gonner. Sorry if that chaps ya up.



No bustin chops here, in fact you are better than us. DH likes to blow them to pieces w/ a shotgun, at least when he is at his dad's or uncle's lakes....I don't think that would fly at his other fishing spots (Sinclair, West point, and Eufalah), so he just tries to steer clear. I definitely don't think he would attack them w/ a maddock in flip flops!!! Although I consider him a "real man", he IS a bit of a snake sissy!

At any rate, we don't play w/ water mocassins......my little book says it is a myth that they are agressive....WHATEVER. Don't blame ya one bit!

Rachael


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## Boleyz (Sep 7, 2004)

Cabin Fever said:


> ...and you've done a pretty decent job concealing that 1911 there on your strongside.


I really had to look, but it DOES look like I'm packing doesn't it? Nah, at the lake, I keep the firearms in my tackle box or under the truck seat. I really wasn't packing...mattock work only...


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## A'sta at Hofstead (Sep 20, 2006)

Boleyz, you murderer! :Bawling: :Bawling: :Bawling: :Bawling: 
The poor lil baby


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## Cabin Fever (May 10, 2002)

Hey, I found this fishing clip of Boleyz on YouTube!

[ame=http://youtube.com/watch?v=p_UnV3RbCtg]Boleyz Fishing Clip[/ame]


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## Boleyz (Sep 7, 2004)

Cabin Fever said:


> Hey, I found this fishing clip of Boleyz on YouTube!
> 
> Boleyz Fishing Clip


I wish that WAS me...I'd like to have his boats, gear and money...the only thing I'd do different is get rid of that stinkin' UT hat. I'd wear UK...


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## Reptyle (Jul 28, 2005)

Boleyz said:


> I figured some of ya would bust my chops for killing it, but if I find any kind of unknown snake 30 feet from where my kids run and play barefooted in their swimming suits, well, he's a gonner. Sorry if that chaps ya up.
> 
> Here's the biggest water mocassin I ever saw in my life. I killed it in June at Lake Sinclare in GA where my parents have a place on the lake. He was in the little dockhouse. I killed him with my trusty mattock...


If you know enough to recognize a mocassin, then the rest are easy. There really aren't that many venomous snakes in North American and all but the mocassin can easily be identified by most people...Rattlers, copperheads and coral snakes are very distinctive...Why kill something else that might be helpful?


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## Boleyz (Sep 7, 2004)

Reptyle said:


> ...Why kill something else that might be helpful?


When in doubt, I prefer to err on the side of my children. There are plenty of snakes...I've only got 3 kids...so, given the uncertainty, I will kill any snake that I don't recognize as a harmless snake. This one was new to me. I've seen plenty of copperhead adults, but never a young copperhead hatchling, so...to be on the safe side, I killed it. 

I've now decided that it was probably a harmless earth snake, but they eat earthworms and, in my new yard, I need all the worms I have to build up topsoil, so it probably wasn't really "Beneficial" if it was eating my worms. I need the earthworms more than I do the snake, as I'm trying to establish a new lawn.


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## elliemaeg (May 1, 2005)

I grew up in southwest Ohio and west central Indiana. Never saw a poison snake. My brothers stayed at our creek on the farm in Indiana all day. No one knew what they were doing but they sure were busy. They came home ,found me, and one got on one side of me and one on the other(to make sure I didn't run) and poured a big jar full of snakes over my head. I'm still alive but sure did a lot of screaming.


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## Burbsteader (Aug 6, 2002)

It is up to you whether or not you kill a snake, but I don't need to see a picture of it.


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## Boleyz (Sep 7, 2004)

Burbsteader said:


> It is up to you whether or not you kill a snake, but I don't need to see a picture of it.


Then don't ever open a thread that says, "Pics" in the title...


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## ninny (Dec 12, 2005)

elliemaeg said:


> I grew up in southwest Ohio and west central Indiana. Never saw a poison snake. My brothers stayed at our creek on the farm in Indiana all day. No one knew what they were doing but they sure were busy. They came home ,found me, and one got on one side of me and one on the other(to make sure I didn't run) and poured a big jar full of snakes over my head. I'm still alive but sure did a lot of screaming.



If said brothers are still alive I would like to ask, WHY???

Killing them would have been justifiable homicide...  



.


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## Burbsteader (Aug 6, 2002)

> Then don't ever open a thread that says, "Pics" in the title...


The title says PICS in reference to identifying a snake. 
Nowhere in the title does it say that there is a graphic picture of a snake dying. 

If you choose to post graphic pictures of your snake killing prowess, then please place a suitable warning in the future. 

I'm not sure why you felt the need to even take that sort of picture, but to each his own I guess. I just don't want to see it. A suitable warning next time please. 
Thank you.


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## Boleyz (Sep 7, 2004)




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## Danaus29 (Sep 12, 2005)

I'll stand behind you on this one, Boleyz. I once killed a water snake because it sure looked like a rattler (which have been spotted in this area). It flattened it's head to look like a rattler's head (common defensive move I since found out) so whap, whap, whap went the shovel until the poor thing thrashed about and brought the rest of it's body out from under the mulch. Boy, did I ever feel bad about that! 

I have seen copperheads in the wild and I know they are very common in the southern states. Lots of young snakes look very different from the adults and unless you know your snakes they can be confusing. Better safe than sorry with kids around.


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## GoddessKristie (Jun 18, 2007)

I woulda killed it too! 

Cabin Fever: you're crackin me up!!


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## TC (Jun 22, 2005)

If I see a snake, I don't care what kind, who's friend he might be, poisonious or not, baby or adult, I will hack it to pieces, screaming like I'm being murdered, with tears running down my eyes! Where ever I saw and killed said snake, I won't venture for months! I hate them, I have a phobia! Plus in Texas, most snakes you see, besides maybe chicken snakes are poisonious.


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## RachAnn in NW Okla (Aug 28, 2002)

his post said it was already dead in the 2nd pic.....not that it was DYING 

I dunno that I would have used my fingers to hold it for a better pic while thinking it may have been poisonous....so he was using tweezers...big deal.....

as I tell my pouting children "come on, cry....I wanna see real tears" they usually stop in a hurry!

Rachel


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## donsgal (May 2, 2005)

DrippingSprings said:


> My rule is I dont kill any snakes. I dont see any reason to kill them. They serve a function. So I leave them alone.
> 
> Now free ranging cats? SSS They are singlehandedly responsibe for the very serious decline and possible extinctionof many of the birds.


Song birds only live, on the average, of 18 months anyway. There have always been birds and there have always been things that kill them. Most likely if there is a dearth of song birds in your area, it is because of habitat loss due to development and not cats. Around where I live it is mostly because of idiot neighbors who think it is "funny" to knock nests out of trees with baby birds in them. I'd like to work a little SSS magic on them, if I could.

donsgal


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## Burbsteader (Aug 6, 2002)

He held it with his fingers for the first pic. (?) 
I did not appreciate the second picture. 
I stated my opinion about it. 

You don't have to agree with it. 
Boleyz doesn't have to agree with it . I never thought he would agree and rather expected an intriguing response. I have to say he didn't let me down. 

I think I was rather polite about it. 
If that makes me a pouting child to you, am I supposed to care?


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## auctioneer (Sep 11, 2006)

elliemaeg said:


> I poured a big jar full of snakes over my head. I'm still alive


I'd be an only child if it took me 20 years!


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## Boleyz (Sep 7, 2004)

Burbsteader said:


> He held it with his fingers for the first pic. (?)
> I did not appreciate the second picture.
> I stated my opinion about it.
> 
> ...


Personally, I think you're being a little snotty about it, but that's just my opinion...and I'm expressing it politely...

I tried to make the thread title say:

* "Can Anyone Identify This Baby Snake I Found on My Patio? Pics, But In One of Them, The Baby Snake is Dead, So Don't Look if You're Easily Upset By Such Things!"*

However, it wouldn't allow me to use that many characters in the Title Bar, so I had to shorten it and you got offended...sorry... :shrug:


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## BobK (Oct 28, 2004)

.....if it were me I would have called the kids over to have a look at it and teach them a bit about thet natural world and how each of the creatures in it play an important role....but that is just me.......but then again I'm not terrified of snakes.....


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## Boleyz (Sep 7, 2004)

BobK said:


> .....if it were me I would have called the kids over to have a look at it and teach them a bit about thet natural world and how each of the creatures in it play an important role....but that is just me.......but then again I'm not terrified of snakes.....


Scroll up...this snake eats worms...I've got a new lawn...I need my worms...I will kill any unknown snake lurking around the pool where my children run barefooted.

There's plenty of snakes. I've only got 3 kids...


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## tinetine'sgoat (Aug 4, 2005)

Cabin Fever said:


> Hey, I found this fishing clip of Boleyz on YouTube!
> 
> Boleyz Fishing Clip



ROFL!!! :rotfl: :stirpot:


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## matt633 (Apr 11, 2007)

This is so crazy to me....it's a SNAKE for cryin out loud!!!! I cannot believe getting so up in arms over a SNAKE! The fact is, Boleyz felt it was a potential threat, so he killed it. I promise you that ANYTHING I find on my land that I feel is a threat to myself, my children, or my animals is not gonna make it off! 

Rachael


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## matt633 (Apr 11, 2007)

Burbsteader said:


> *He held it with his fingers for the first pic. (?)
> I did not appreciate the second picture. * I stated my opinion about it.
> 
> You don't have to agree with it.
> ...



Hey, you don't happen to hang out in the chicken forum, do ya?

*WARNING: LOTS of pics of dead snakes (among other things) posted on various threads in Chicken forum!!!*

I will say, Boleyz....one poster was nice enough to put a "Don't view unless you are over 35" warning on their dead **** pic thread!!! Kind of implying only big kids could handle it....except I was the offended in that one...I'm only 29!! LOL

Oh, well...can't please everybody.

Rachael


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## WendyW. (Apr 29, 2005)

Any snake that is in my space is a dead snake. I don't care who, why, what or how it is there. If they stay far away from me, they need not worry. Same goes for most reptiles, rodents, or bugs.


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## BobK (Oct 28, 2004)

Boleyz said:


> Scroll up...this snake eats worms...I've got a new lawn...I need my worms...I will kill any unknown snake lurking around the pool where my children run barefooted.
> 
> There's plenty of snakes. I've only got 3 kids...



the also eat insect larvae....like cinch bugs.....and cinch bugs destroy lawns....I guess it all depends on what lessons you wish to teach your kids.......likeI said I would have used the situation to teach a different lesson to the kids...but to each their own!


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## YounGrey (Jun 7, 2007)

Crazy! But I love the pics


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