# Your Input please



## Pack Rat (Nov 9, 2006)

Got some rumor that may require a significant change in prep plans that may take more time to implement than we have time left to do so.


For the sake of anonymity (no telling if the parties mentioned here may frequent this forum or be known by anyone who does, and I wasn't about to blow OPSEC), I can neither confirm nor deny the exact details of the following incident. 


A while back in our local farm supply store, I overheard a couple guys talking about a further meltdown of the economy. One had a long term unemployed child w/family coming back home to the farm; the other was having concerns about increasing delays in getting payments for his products, which aren't really keeping up with the costs to produce them. Both lamented the slide in value of the dollar "with all that printing going on, the debt with no limit, and the wrong people getting even more leverage to bankrupt us". One said he was thinking about moving from commodities to a more locally driven model while he still had some capital to work with, developing an alternative market while society is still relatively stable, and possibly even using something other than pictures of dead presidents because the buck is already worth less than the stuff it's printed on. The other wasn't sure what a viable alternative would be, and expressed some reservation about abandoning the current currency "because everyone still uses it" but did agree that he could "see the day it would be worth more as TP". 


As far as I can tell, these weren't financial analysts making corn and milk in their spare time, these were guys with mud on their chore boots and hands that knew work on a daily basis.


I don't get a paper, don't watch TV (no time for either), only catch odd bits from NPR on occasion (taken with a grain of salt), and don't get out much (into town or into the internet) because there are plenty of things keeping me busy right in my back yard, but now I wonder what I've been missing? 


I realize that for most, it's "the frog in the kettle", and being immersed in the slow change, they'll never realize they're on the way to being cooked. Some of you here seem to an eye on a thermometer, and have hard numbers on the 'heat', even if the boiling point of the solution is uncertain, possibly because the lid keeps getting cranked down tighter.



*The questions:*



In your perspectives, how soon are we cooked economically?
Would the next world police action (or two, or three) blow the economic lid?
 Should I be looking for or pushing for an alternative means of exchange for my community (e.g.: localbux such as Berkshares)?
What do you see coming in the weeks, months or year(s) ahead?
What, if anything are you doing to prepare for these possibilities?


I'm feeling the need to know from people I trust, in one place, in a concise summary without links to youtube or heavy graphics, because the few minutes a month I have for dial-up access don't allow for frills. Mull it over among yourselves for a bit - I won't have time to check back for several days.


----------



## Ernie (Jul 22, 2007)

We're cooked now. Many people think the world is fine because their paycheck still shows up every 2 weeks, but they're a pink slip away from calamity.

The "police actions" or "wars" are actually efforts to preserve the economic status quo and keep oil being exchanged in American Dollars. The last folks who tried to break the agreement were Saddam Hussein and Qaddafi. Now Syria is about to be toppled too, presumably for similar reasons. If the world ever stops trading oil for American dollars then hyperinflation will hit almost overnight. 

If you ever need an alternative means of exchange, local "dollars" will be of less value than even federal dollars. If you're looking to preserve wealth for a future collapse, consider either real currencies such as gold and silver, or other trade goods such as ammo, liquor, etc. Better still is something you can produce yourself that would have value in a post-collapse world.

I can't make predictions and people are sick to death of hearing what I'M doing to prepare.


----------



## myheaven (Apr 14, 2006)

Only thing you can do in the near time with money is get real goods. Like put in a wood stove for heat and cooking . Chain saws, axes, wood, gas can, no ethanol gas, bar and chain oil, mixing oil, generator, good shoes food. 
The IRS is already cracking down on bitcoin, and other alternative currency as they feel they are not happy about not being able to tax it.
Don't store mass quantities of money. It will not be as valuable later. If its there at all.


----------



## jwal10 (Jun 5, 2010)

Sounds to me like you are already in trouble scurrying around trying to keep up with what owns you. You have to get to a sustainable lifestyle. Most people do not even know what is truly needed or how to get there. You have to know what you really need and work on that. All luxuries will be lost when you can not sustain it or defend it. Only what you can obtain with your own hands is what you will have in the end, the rest just prolongs the agony of the inevitable....James


----------



## 7thswan (Nov 18, 2008)

Sounds like you are listening to "the little man in the back of your head" as my Dh calls it.My Sis calls it her "3rd eye", I have another name,but the important thing is you are comeing to the point that something is smacking you upside your head and it's making you realize something. There are small things that speek to each of us,so there is no real way to predict the exact moment of the "biggie". I've been expecting it for quite awhile. Now it's a chore for me, the stress is bad for my health so part of my personal process is to have Faith, That is very hard for me,to rely on anything(one) other than myself. So I am prepaird to attempt to go it alone without my community. I have lost all trust in my fellow man. I don't want to be this way,but it is what it is and that is what I must deal with. Maybe when it does all crash down, my lesson will teach me to trust again. So, Skills, and Faith, those are my suggestions.


----------



## Terri (May 10, 2002)

Pack Rat, this recession has lasted for a few years and I believe it has some ways to go. Bubble after bubble has burst, and the last bubble that I know of is the currency one.

All I can say is, do not put all of your eggs in one basket. We have a little money saved, a little land, snd some retirement funds in the stock market. And, because during the Great Depression the banks closed, we also have some food stored.

Now, I realize that the currency bubble may pop, or perhaps the Feds will try to inflate the debt away, at which time money might not be worth nearly as much. But, during the last two recessions cash was king! With cash you could buy what you needed at yard sales for a fraction of the cost at grocery stores. So not all monies should be spent on things like food and tools. Do not put all of your eggs in one basket.


----------



## texican (Oct 4, 2003)

myheaven said:


> Only thing you can do in the near time with money is get real goods. Like put in a wood stove for heat and cooking . Chain saws, axes, wood, gas can, no ethanol gas, bar and chain oil, mixing oil, generator, good shoes food.
> The IRS is already cracking down on bitcoin, and other alternative currency as they feel they are not happy about not being able to tax it.
> Don't store mass quantities of money. It will not be as valuable later. If its there at all.


Imho, you can never go wrong with real goods... stuff your going to need in the future... as long as you live. Pretty much every 'worst case' scenario will dictate that those real goods will be difficult if not impossible to obtain.


----------



## tkrabec (Mar 12, 2003)

myheaven said:


> Only thing you can do in the near time with money is get real goods. Like put in a wood stove for heat and cooking . Chain saws, axes, wood, gas can, no ethanol gas, bar and chain oil, mixing oil, generator, good shoes food.
> The IRS is already cracking down on bitcoin, and other alternative currency as they feel they are not happy about not being able to tax it.
> Don't store mass quantities of money. It will not be as valuable later. If its there at all.


They only really want to tax it. There are a few exchanges in the us that handle the tax liabilities for you( don't know who they are).


----------



## Ozarks Tom (May 27, 2011)

If your main source of information is NPR, you're really only getting the "happy talk" from people with a very pro-government agenda. Try some alternatives, and get a fuller picture of the real situation. You might start with http://www.zerohedge.com/

I've made my own predictions on this forum, that we've got less than 6 months now before the economy goes into the toilet. My reasoning is based more on political reasons than outright economic news. We won't see the big hit coming, and tracing the real source will be unlikely.

That being said, when the economy as we know it fails to function the only thing worth having will be tangible assets such as food, producing animals, land for production (even small scale), and the means to protect them. A moderate amount of precious metals might eventually be positive, but in the meantime barter goods will be more useful. I disagree with those who include liquor and ammunition in their barter goods, who wants a drunk with ammo knowing you've got more?

What are we doing to prepare? Gathering what long term commodities/supplies as we can, and doing our best to create relationships with people who are potential assets, not liabilities.


----------



## Andy Nonymous (Aug 20, 2005)

this reply could have been even longer. Some good advice already, but to elaborate (andy style)


> The questions:
> In your perspectives, how soon are we cooked economically?


 Some already are, some aren't yet, only a few are in the process of getting out of the kettle. A lot may depend on which side of the kettle gets the next flare up, and when. OzarksTom may be right at 6mo, but others have been saying 6mo for several years. I'm impressed by how far the can has been kicked down the road, and absolutely flummoxed by how many still believe it's a good can!


> Would the next world police action (or two, or three) blow the economic lid?


 As Ernie indicates, these events are meant to keep the illusion going in two ways: both as diversion, and feeding the demands of the insatiable beast (the MIC that needs MORE!!!). It's not the action itself that will 'blow the lid', but the unavoidable consequences thereof, which are often readily foreseeable by those with a lick of (un)common sense. These events merely add water behind a leaking dike, and make the reach of the impending flood even further downstream (time wise), and onto high ground (those who think themselves isolated).


> Should I be looking for or pushing for an alternative means of exchange for my community (e.g.: localbux such as Berkshares)?


 In a word: YES. 
Gary Larson did a Far Side cartoon showing an old woman pushing an upright Hoover through a forest with menacing 'eyes' among the undergrowth, and the caption "Nature abhors a vacuum". A vacuum of a medium of exchange would be even more abhorrent to most people (if they even think about it), especially because such is a *common**  denominator* to nearly all transactions in our lives. I suppose in an ideal world, if the current-C fell apart, there would be something nearly equally familiar in the wings to take it's place, but most folks are too comfortable with what they know, even as it gets more apparent that 'it' isn't working anymore, so lacking an alternative, there will be a very, very difficult adjustment period.which will lead to all manner of chaos. Even if you know the value' of your goods as measured in other goods, there is bound to be a steep learning curve for everyone else in your community who isn't accustomed to thinking outside the George, especially when a fist full of Benjamins can't get what a single George used to. Getting as many as possible in your community on the 'same page' with something 'local' (call them Lettuce, or Spuds, based on a set amount of certain produce, or Woodchucks, based on a set unit of hardwood fuel, or board feet of lumber, or Hours, based on an hour of diligent labor, not the half slack version). Start a "pre '65" club, where real coins have real value, and the new ones don't. ANYTHING, especially if based on some physical object, is better than putting your full faith and trust in the word of liars and thieves, the evaporation rate of which is about to accelerate.


> What do you see coming in the weeks, months or year(s) ahead?


 A lot that probably even many here just can't "see". To give a hint: Emergency Preparedness is a way of thinking and acting based on the assumption that "the change from normal" will be temporary - that the "emergency" will pass, and the "normal" they are accustomed to will return. Thinking beyond that, to not just the possibility of something entirely different, but a long and tumultuous time (quite *possibly decades*) before their locality (to say nothing of the world as a whole) gets 'stable' again to where a vastly different 'normal' exists, means prepping in very different ways. Shoes will come from a local cobbler who gets his leather from the local tanner, who gets his hides from the local butcher, who gets his animals from a local farmer, all of whom are using a stable means of exchange, and are protected by a local militia. 


> What, if anything are you doing to prepare for these possibilities?


 Above all, attempting to build community, and to educate others locally (and beyond) to build community. It's hard to do so, because most people are so heavily invested emotionally, intellectually and financially in things 'just as they are', that considering not just a change, but a radical change involving expectations and lifestyle - no way. I've become Andy the Nutcase, wearing a rag shirt, living on wild honey and locusts, shouting "REPENT of your selfish, consumerist ways - you need to learn to do for yourself or do without, forever!", and who wants to hear that? They'd rather stock up on cheap stuff from china via their local 'soupercenter', fueling business as usual (causing us to circle the drain even faster), and with the money they "save", upgrade their I-phone, or get a bigger (imported) flatscreen. :doh: What will any of that be worth when your dentist wants 2# of organically raised salt pork or 10# of potatoes to fix your toothache? Raising that? Got some practical skills (carpentry (w/hand tools only), weaving, sewing, pottery) to trade for that? Is your community safe/stable enough to carry 10 pounds of spuds around without getting mugged, or worse.

John Donne was absolutely correct: "No man is an island", and those who attempt to survive as such in the years (the LONG YEARS) ahead will find themselves fighting a losing battle for needed resources and skill sets against (or in competition with) those who band together: those who share something vitally important to all the members (like a common medium of exchange). There is strength, safety, and physical survival in numbers. A community of 1000 has a much better chance (probably exponentially) than a community of 100, and a community of 100 has an astronomically better chance than a group of 10, regardless of how remote, or how talented, or how well stocked with the 3B's. Less than 10? your odds of making it through to a level of societal stability similar to what you probably think we currently have, are (in my estimation) lower than getting hit by an asteroid on the day you hold a winning lottery ticket.

Most of us are currently allowed a relatively peaceful existence only because a lot of others have less to gain than lose from bothering us. When (not if) that changes, will you be a vital part of a community that is too big to mess with? If not already, don't bother giving me (or your family) the line that "it's too difficult", because here are your only viable options: 1) help build one, or 2) die trying.


----------



## Andy Nonymous (Aug 20, 2005)

another couple thoughts: If you happen to see either of these guys again, strike up a conversation, find out what they are raising. Offer to trade some of your time or products for some of their products - start building the network. You might get some fertile eggs, or a calf, or some hay or grain for livestock you may already have, or you might learn some new skills, or get hooked into a bigger network...

Farmers often have a better handle on barter than most too. You want people in your network/community that know how to work, and those who produce something necessary. Ernie makes knives - I already have an 'Ernie' in my community. Do you?


----------



## Rose1317 (Jul 26, 2011)

"I've become Andy the Nutcase, wearing a rag shirt, living on wild honey and locusts, shouting "REPENT of your selfish, consumerist ways - you need to learn to do for yourself or do without, forever!", and who wants to hear that?"
This about sizes up the reaction of even usually rational people, when faced with those who think outside the Made-In-China shiny box. A farmer just the other day was telling me that "there's a group of folks in my community that are Scared To Death, har har, that something will happen. Well, if it happens, it happens, right?" to which I just replied, "really, imagine that." He referred to a community of preparedness fans in his (not local to me) locale. Problem with their notoriety is that he and the rest of the scoffers know their exact addresses and will remember.


----------



## Grumpy old man (Aug 6, 2013)

barter , barter ,barter learn how before you need too!


----------



## texican (Oct 4, 2003)

If you're not plugged into the information grid, how will you know when the grid is no more (the flags have went up). Of course, static on the radio 'could' be seen as a flag... yet, our local public radio station goes off air regularly, with their lousy transmitters. If ALL radio went static, that could be a sign...


----------



## Ozarks Tom (May 27, 2011)

Another sign? If you hear the words "Bank Holiday" you're too late.


----------



## TxGypsy (Nov 23, 2006)

http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Government/2013/09/06/Investors-Pull-21-94-Billion-Out-of-Stock-Funds

This will give you nightmares. 

I think we are already there. I fear that implementation of the infamous 'health' care act will make us crumple like a paper sculpture in the rain.


----------



## doodlemom (Apr 4, 2006)

So our current situation sees fundamental and technical factors coming together to create The Perfect Storm. If everything goes well, that is, Syria hands over its weapons, the Fed does "taper light" and Congress and the White House can come to a quick conclusion on the debt ceiling debate, it will be a solid green light for the stock market.

On the other end of the spectrum, military action in Syria, an adverse reaction to withdrawal of easy money by the Fed or a standoff between the House and the White House over the debt ceiling lead to potentially rough waters and big waves ahead for global financial markets.

Anywhere in between generates large primary and secondary swells on an already turbulent sea.

http://www.marketwatch.com/story/the-perfect-storm-2013-09-11?dist=tbeforebell


----------



## Alice Kramden (Mar 26, 2008)

In addition to the above listed sites, all great ones, too!, I keep an eye on:

http://tickerforum.org/akcs-www

Karl Denninger gets on fire sometimes. His editorials are on target. He also keeps a "level indicator", Tickercon, on the upper left of the page. Once or twice it has gone to "1" (crash imminent status), but somehow the PTB, powers-that-be, have pulled the economy back from the brink. It stays at "2" most of the time. 

He has a lot of credibility as far as I am concerned, and knows the inside goings on. If "it" is close to happening, he will know, his site will reflect that knowledge, and that may be all the warning we get. 

Another site I keep check on, and should join, is timebomb2000. They are on top of things really well, and will give notice when "IT" seems imminent.


----------



## Pack Rat (Nov 9, 2006)

jwal10 said:


> Sounds to me like you are already in trouble scurrying around trying to keep up with what owns you. You have to get to a sustainable lifestyle. Most people do not even know what is truly needed or how to get there. You have to know what you really need and work on that. All luxuries will be lost when you can not sustain it or defend it. Only what you can obtain with your own hands is what you will have in the end, the rest just prolongs the agony of the inevitable....James


 Exactly, James. I am so busy being as sustainable as I possibly can that I'm in trouble, mostly because I have so little time to do anything else. I have no idea how so many here have time to be posting here and still be practicing sustainability. Being here is time and energy very likely financed by being dependent on energy slaves to do your work in the form of petroleum products or electricity or high technology like solar panels, charge controllers, and battery banks that are not sustainable forever - the very luxuries you claim we should eschew. Cutting firewood with a chainsaw, rather than a handsaw and ax; driving a vehicle to work, rather than walking or riding a bicycle, or using a horse that you harvest and store hay for by hand. How exactly does real sustainability allow for more free time? What am I missing here?:shrug:


----------



## Pack Rat (Nov 9, 2006)

I see some good advice here in general, but most of those bases are already covered. I'm already somewhat isolated from the economy - I don't have an electric bill, phone bill, cable bill, or satellite bill. I've been heating and cooking with wood for years; I grind flour, keep critters, tend a garden, wildcraft berries and apples, tap maples, put up, and do much of this work very much like my great, great grandparent had to, only without a horse at present because I would need more hay than I can currently do by hand. 

If I can't figure out how to do without ready access to the energy slaves (grid electric and petrol products in particular), and to keep in practice doing so on a daily basis now, how should I expect to suddenly get and stay up to speed when there is no choice? I wanted to get the bugs out of living a simple life while it isn't a matter of life or death, because learning curve mistakes under pressure rarely turn out well. I'm now thinking this should include a more stable/alt means of trade, because without one, society can and will get seriously shredded.

I already barter for a portion of the necessities I can't provide for myself, but there are still a lot of things that need some sort of "universal store of value" that is widely understood and accepted, and therein lies the rub! The 'snap' in the incident first mentioned, was the growing lack of faith in the current medium. I don't think I'm extrapolating too far, when what seemed to be ordinary farm guys IRL start openly talking about the manure and fan that previously only the fringe scattered over the internet were going off about. At the rate I'm now seeing events unfolding, I'm not sure I (we) have enough time to build a trade network that will get enough momentum to pull away from the mass of lemmings that are following the specter of* 'just ahead: the return of good times'*, right off a cliff.

Andy, you may be right about needing a bigger community involved. For far too long I was working on the assumption that SELF reliance is the key, but that only works in a stable society when very few people need anything I might have bad enough to attempt to take it. When a LOT of people desperately need what they think I have because they have no way to get what they need on their own, such as when their means of trade are gone, those practicing SELF reliance are up against some very long odds. The only way to survive in a long term economic collapse is to build community that has the building blocks of trade in place to function outside that economy. In our very secularly fractured society, the thing we all share (if I may borrow the term), the "common denominator" that binds people together on an essential level of need, is the stuff other than lint in our pockets. With practically every currency worldwide attempting to match the speed of the presses in the US to keep from falling behind the inflation curve, where do we go?

I think I need to refine the questions: 

When (not if) the paper you trade with goes 'poof', what do you think will happen, for how long, and why?
Do you currently have even the start of an alt/economy, fully de-linkable from the current-c, with an easily understood USoV (universal store of value) acceptable to enough people that you can trade among on a daily basis for *at least the next 5-10 years* without the use of the Fiat that currently drives you?
If not, how would you propose doing so?
What do you think about bitcoin? Or junk coin?


----------



## Pack Rat (Nov 9, 2006)

Before someone asks - if I have no utility bills, how do I access the internet? I barter with a neighbor who has dialup. When they aren't using it, and when I have most of my critical chores caught up with, I get to see what the rest of the world is doing, and I find there is hardly enough time to read, and even less to post my questions or thoughts. Links to web sites, while they might be good for someone who has the time to check into them, quite simply, I don't. HT is simple, loads relatively quickly, and has people I trust to tell it like it is. If IT happens between check ins here, I'll be one of the last to know the other shoe has dropped, so I really need to be prepared for that eventuality well beforehand.


----------



## Pack Rat (Nov 9, 2006)

This sums up the crux of the barter problem, and the need for some store of value:
http://www.homesteadingtoday.com/6741873-post27.html


----------



## 7thswan (Nov 18, 2008)

It sounds like you might be in somewhat like my situation-which is all I can really speek of. My neighbors "know" , they I know I am home here everyday,sewing,gardening,preserving,tending animals ect. They might be big production farmers, but they have no diversity. They stop by being friendly neighbors and all, out of the blue will ask a question,something like, "what kind of weed is that" out in our pasture. I will tell the them botanical name and the common name. They might ask more or just have a Look on their face. I've had neighbors at a pig roast tell everyone, you would never belive what "her" yard looks like. Then another day,go outside and people are touring my yard. A farmer comes over offers me a bummer lamb-because they know I'll nurse it back to health,when they don't have the time or care. They buy my 35$ handspun,handmade,hats because they are far better than what they can buy in the store,then if it wears out,they bring it back and I mend it.When someone plows out my drive,I take them hot out of my woodstove,homemade bread. I can go on, but I hope you get what I'm saying.I don't like to have to depend on others,but I do belive in a SHTF situation , my skills are "round" enough that people know that I have something to offer,so that we can help each other out. I think that is about all you can hope to do-do your best at being Able.


----------



## Andy Nonymous (Aug 20, 2005)

This is old news (January of 2012), but perhaps even more pertinent now:

http://money.cnn.com/2012/01/17/pf/local_currency/index.htm


----------



## Andy Nonymous (Aug 20, 2005)

Pack Rat, of the alternatives you mention, if you don't have a local currency you can get into, probably the next best alternative is "junk"

People will more easily accept what they are familiar with, and the "real value" can be explained (the coins aren't worth more than when they were made: the paper is now worth so much less than the coins because so much more has been printed with nothing to back it up).

Local coin or pawn shops will have some "junk", but it will come at a well padded premium. If you are so inclined and can make enough time for some internet research or have the means to use E-bay (perhaps through your friends/neighbours), you might get better deals. I haven't really looked into pm's myself, because I'm not so sure that having "good coin" won't become illegal, or subject to seizure when the manure hits and the gov panics to finance itself and military. I prefer to put my investments into the ground (seeds). Even in a bad year, I still manage to eat pretty well, and as others have said: you can't eat silver. YMMV


----------



## Terri (May 10, 2002)

Pack Rat said:


> Exactly, James. I am so busy being as sustainable as I possibly can that I'm in trouble, mostly because I have so little time to do anything else. I have no idea how so many here have time to be posting here and still be practicing sustainability. Being here is time and energy very likely financed by being dependent on energy slaves to do your work in the form of petroleum products or electricity or high technology like solar panels, charge controllers, and battery banks that are not sustainable forever - the very luxuries you claim we should eschew. Cutting firewood with a chainsaw, rather than a handsaw and ax; driving a vehicle to work, rather than walking or riding a bicycle, or using a horse that you harvest and store hay for by hand. How exactly does real sustainability allow for more free time? What am I missing here?:shrug:


I read about a woman who, expecting things to crash in the 70's, bought a small farm and raised goats and became as self-sufficient as she possibly could. 

Things did not crash and 15 years later she decided that she had wasted her entire life, so she sold out and moved to the city. Personally I would have preferred the little farm but the point was she stopped living in order to prep, and life is too short to do what you dislike an do it 24/7.

I have decided that the potential to be self-sufficient is better than the reality. So, this year I cut my garden in half! This gives me more time.

Now, I have extra seeds and I can plant if things do crash, but there is a gap between planting an harvesting, and a person does have to eat. Enter buckets of rice downstairs. Rice with some vegetables and a little protien will keep a person alive for a long time, while the garden and the wheat and corn grow. 

Am I all set up? No. Life is busy and I do not have ENOUGH corn and wheat seeds and enough rice buckets and chicken feed. Still, I think that my plan to have rice and seeds is a good one: I am not self-sufficient now but I would be satisfied with enough to feed us while I BECOME self sufficient!

The rest of life is calling my name. My oldest is semi-moved out: she is staying with friens and wanting to move to Nebraska. My youngest is still at home but he will not be for much longer. Probably. DH would like to take some short trips and that sounds like a great deal of fun.

To be fully prepped to BECOME self sufficient I would need enough seed to plant my acre, a years worth of chicken feed, and many more buckets of rice. My wood pile is not as sound as it was two years ago: I would like to burn it all this winter and replace it. There are some weed trees growing in the blackberries that could become usefull as firewood. And, this year I had some sucess at growing chicken feed, though what I have done is not near enough.

There is ALWAYS prepping that needs doing, but it is worth it to take time out for life and for goofing around. Because, like in the 70's, things might not crash after all. 

In fact I am starting to think that we have dodged the bullet again, though that will not stop me from prepping. Prepping is good insurance, and it gives me peace of mind!


----------



## Ann-NWIowa (Sep 28, 2002)

I think all we can do is work towards self-sufficiency. It is a good goal, but difficult, if not impossible, to achieve. On another thread Ernie discusses changing our expectations for life. If we are making ourselves crazy trying to build a self-sufficient life with the goal that SHTF our lives continue as before, we need a reality check. The fact is after SHTF we will be self-sufficient or we will not survive. What that sufficiency looks like is not going to be close to the way most of us live today.


----------



## Becka03 (Mar 29, 2009)

7thswan said:


> It sounds like you might be in somewhat like my situation-which is all I can really speek of. My neighbors "know" , they I know I am home here everyday,sewing,gardening,preserving,tending animals ect. They might be big production farmers, but they have no diversity. They stop by being friendly neighbors and all, out of the blue will ask a question,something like, "what kind of weed is that" out in our pasture. I will tell the them botanical name and the common name. They might ask more or just have a Look on their face. I've had neighbors at a pig roast tell everyone, you would never belive what "her" yard looks like. Then another day,go outside and people are touring my yard. A farmer comes over offers me a bummer lamb-because they know I'll nurse it back to health,when they don't have the time or care. They buy my 35$ handspun,handmade,hats because they are far better than what they can buy in the store,then if it wears out,they bring it back and I mend it.When someone plows out my drive,I take them hot out of my woodstove,homemade bread. I can go on, but I hope you get what I'm saying.I don't like to have to depend on others,but I do belive in a SHTF situation , my skills are "round" enough that people know that I have something to offer,so that we can help each other out. I think that is about all you can hope to do-do your best at being Able.


7thswan~ I know I have been trying harder and harder with my neighbors- this summer I delivered "pickling kits" for fridge pickles to 3 of my neighbors- we barter animal watching with the neighbors we hand bags of veggies back and forth when we get bumper crops that aren't the same- The one neighbor wants to learn to can salsa so when we do can ours I will invite her over to learn. My neighbors ask me if I want apples off their trees- cause they don't want them- they bring me back my empty jars - LOL- we take turns driving to Amish country to get supplies- it works out pretty well


----------

