# if theres anything I hate more...



## ||Downhome|| (Jan 12, 2009)

than a poacher its a stupid poacher.....

"COs Troy Vangelderen and Brian Brosky worked a decoy patrol based on information
from a complainant reference people road hunting near his residence. Shortly after the
decoy was set up, the complainant drove past in his truck, saw the deer, hit his brakes,
backed up and shot at it from his truck window. He was issued a ticket for hunting from a motor vehicle" 

if your interested there is a whole lot more here 

http://www.michigan.gov/dnr/0,1607,7-153-42199_50569---,00.html


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## tyusclan (Jan 1, 2005)

My neighbor was coming out of his place yesterday and spooked a deer onto the road just as he was coming out of the gate. Some idiot passing in a pickup did the same thing, jumped out of the truck and took a shot at the deer, right there on the right-of-way. He didn't get a license number, but he stopped to ask me if I recognized the truck, which I didn't. Don't know who it was.


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## Haggis (Mar 11, 2004)

I wouldn't turn in a poacher on ethics or for profit. In many ways, given the large numbers of deer related auto accidents, and deer caused property/crop damage poachers are doing a public service; too bad poachers do so poorly at their choosen occupation.


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## Micheal (Jan 28, 2009)

The local DEC has a remote controled 6 pointer decoy that they can make the head rise and it's ears turn [prophead] as though "road hunters" needed a believeable target to shoot at... :shrug:


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## hillbillly (Jun 28, 2009)

LOL
idiocracy is still the rule.


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## tyusclan (Jan 1, 2005)

Haggis said:


> I wouldn't turn in a poacher on ethics or for profit. In many ways, given the large numbers of deer related auto accidents, and deer caused property/crop damage poachers are doing a public service; too bad poachers do so poorly at their choosen occupation.


I wouldn't turn someone in who's trying to feed his family, 
but I would have this moron that shot off the road in a heartbeat. 
My children walk down that road sometimes, and I don't need an imbecile 
shooting on a road that they could be walking on. 

Idiots like that give all hunters and gun owners a black eye.


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## big rockpile (Feb 24, 2003)

I will turn in any poacher they are scum.There is way too much Legal Game and fish.Bull doing it to feed their Family. 

I turned in some guys for Poaching Frogs,they got caught cost them $85 apiece.Well one of them killed my Dogs.I sued him and won.

We had a Decoy set up by us,we went by it on the way to Church,I got out and Mooned it.Then drove around the corner and waved at the Guys :nana:

big rockpile


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## Madsaw (Feb 26, 2008)

A few yrs back we had a young kid shooting from the road all the time. The side road I live on has feilds ont eh north side that lay on a hillside. The deer mostly does would be out there feeding near dark. That was about the time this fool would come home from work. I almost caught him one day. I was coming down the main hwy and the neighbor called me on my cell. He asked if I was at the end of my drive shooting at deer. I told him no just as I went past his place. SO I flew up our side road and never got a chance to get the kids plate number. I did see his red truck just before I turned on teh side road. So, being a mouth that I am I just started talking about all the deer everyone in the area of that hillside been found dead. The one next door neighbor found 3 on his place just yards from the feilds. In total there was 7 deer found shoot from the kid. One was a huge 9 pointer I was watching that was staying near the hill side feilds. Word got back to the kid which was a neighbor of mine also about we saw and knew what he was doing. 
The only time that kid drove slow was when he was road hunting. The wife changed her schedule of going to work in the morns just so he would not hit her on his wa to work in the morns too. A local police cheif freind of mine even tryed to bust him in the little town near by too. He would blow through that town doing 55 in a 25 and blow stop signs too. What a menace to the folks around him.
Bob


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## raybait1 (Sep 30, 2006)

I turn in all poachers. I have the numbers programmed into my phone. The excuse of feeding your family is null. There are many far more reliable and legal methods of feeding your family. The game laws are there to preserve the game, FOR ALL OF US. Poachers are thieves plain and simple.


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## Danaus29 (Sep 12, 2005)

Poachers are low-lifes who deserve jail time and gun confiscation. If I was a park ranger and caught some yahoo out poaching I would confiscate everything including the shoes they walked in with. There are reasons for hunting and fishing seasons and limits. Those who poach steal from other hunters and fishermen.


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## romysbaskets (Aug 29, 2009)

We grew up with month long stays every summer with our wonderful grandparents who owned 360 acres in Oregon. Their property was posted clearly, PRIVATE PROPERTY, NO HUNTING. They had herds of deer on their property and this caused them problems. Not only did hunters come up and shoot deer while trespassing, they took down pieces of fencing and they SHOT COWS BY MISTAKE! My Grandparents had a herd of cows as well as a full variety of typical farm animals. My Grandfather would walk his farm every day to maintain fencelines, hack down sticker vines etc....he would find shot cows every hunting season. They did hunt on their own property legally but they didn't want hunters on it. They raised all their own meat and their own vegies, grain, alfalfa, corn etc.....in large fields. These trespassing hunters could have shot us or them as we played all over their wonderful place! We were warned to be careful and pay attention. They also had issues with wild dogs, abandoned by their owners, taking down livestock....


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## denaliguide (Aug 30, 2008)

menace. Usually if they plan their work so poorly, poaching that is, to be seen, and observed at it, they are careless and slovenly, and a menace.
My advice is kinda Darwin like: If they are stupid enuf to do it in front of you,they need to loose their guns, vehicles and freedom. Its just another way of putting stupid people out of the gene pool, because they are dangerous to the rest of us and give hunting a terrible name and reputation






romysbaskets said:


> We grew up with month long stays every summer with our wonderful grandparents who owned 360 acres in Oregon. Their property was posted clearly, PRIVATE PROPERTY, NO HUNTING. They had herds of deer on their property and this caused them problems. Not only did hunters come up and shoot deer while trespassing, they took down pieces of fencing and they SHOT COWS BY MISTAKE! My Grandparents had a herd of cows as well as a full variety of typical farm animals. My Grandfather would walk his farm every day to maintain fencelines, hack down sticker vines etc....he would find shot cows every hunting season. They did hunt on their own property legally but they didn't want hunters on it. They raised all their own meat and their own vegies, grain, alfalfa, corn etc.....in large fields. These trespassing hunters could have shot us or them as we played all over their wonderful place! We were warned to be careful and pay attention. They also had issues with wild dogs, abandoned by their owners, taking down livestock....


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## catahoula (Dec 14, 2005)

Haggis said:


> I wouldn't turn in a poacher on ethics or for profit. In many ways, given the large numbers of deer related auto accidents, and deer caused property/crop damage poachers are doing a public service; too bad poachers do so poorly at their choosen occupation.


I'm with Haggis on this one.

I refuse to pay a hunting tax, to shoot an animal that spends all it life stomping around my hay, looting my garden, and killing my fruit trees. A hunting "license" is just a tax with a different name, therefore I refuse to hunt. I let the dog run the deer off the property.

Hunters talk about herd management, show me the herdsman that regularly culls out his best animals every year and I'll show you a poor herd.

If a person can't cant afford to feed their family what makes you think they can afford a hunting license? Perhaps fish and game should give free tags to the poor.

Trespassing and shooting from the road, well that's just wrong and a whole 'nuther story.

Rant off, flame on. Thank you for your time.


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## denaliguide (Aug 30, 2008)

and darned if I can remember what states they are, but there is a provision for landowners to hunt their own ground, and be exempted, that only seems reasonable to me.

That we might hold the power of life and death over certain animals means only that, not that we have the right to them.

Further, in certain Native American traditions you NEVER took the biggest animal, NEVER, for as you say, CAT, that is just plain stupid. Personally I never thought you could eat antlers or horns so that was never my objective to get the biggest rack. Maybe the most tender meat, but sure not the biggest rack. Culling has its place as no one wants a herd of runts, but that doesnt mean I want armed tresspassers on my ground no sir.

consider your rant validated !!



catahoula said:


> I'm with Haggis on this one.
> 
> I refuse to pay a hunting tax, to shoot an animal that spends all it life stomping around my hay, looting my garden, and killing my fruit trees. A hunting "license" is just a tax with a different name, therefore I refuse to hunt. I let the dog run the deer off the property.
> 
> ...


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## ||Downhome|| (Jan 12, 2009)

ok this post was no supose to go this way but if you insist,

lets follow this line of logic, 

my familys hungry so I can go shoplift food ?

well the crime is understandable it is still a crime is it not.

my familys cold so I can rob a bank to pay the heat bill, lets just avoid that and circumvent the utilitys by flipping the meter and hacking the lock off the gas meter or steal a full 100 lb. some where. 

again I can understand and maybe even have some sypathy (unlikely).

theres rules/laws for a reason, well I agree that many are redundent and some are stupid when you start picking and choosing which laws you will follow and wich you will not it is a slippery slope. 

you break the law your a Violator plain and simple. if you dont like the laws you can work to change them. 

if the animals are causing damage most state laws allow you to remedy the situation, here if deer are causing damage you get "damage permits" summer tags are free,winter will cost you. the other options are a good fence or a corral hedge. belive theres a saying "a lack of planing on your part does not constitute a emergency on mine". to me if you took nessary precautions and there is a problem well then it is truly a problem,I wouldnt just leave my wallet sitting on a stores counter and expect nothing to come of it. would I?

poaching is a crime, a poacher is a criminal, and many as pointed out are just stupid! so well you pat your violating buddys on the back dont forget to go to the local prison and shake hands with the rapists,petty thieves,muderers and everyone else there they are one and the same, criminals. 

I dont seperate criminals by crimes they are all the same to me, you will break one law you are more then capable of breaking others just takes the right "logic" to validate the actions and its "OK". so as I end this rant
those that are "OK" with that sort of behavior dont complain when someone ignors the law and violates you, you have no right. laws are only for the law abiding!


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## Haggis (Mar 11, 2004)

||Downhome|| said:


> ok this post was no supose to go this way but if you insist,
> 
> poaching is a crime, a poacher is a criminal, and many as pointed out are just stupid! so well you pat your violating buddys on the back dont forget to go to the local prison and shake hands with the rapists,petty thieves,muderers and everyone else there they are one and the same, criminals.


Poaching is a crime, once made so by wealthy landowners, now made so by "sportsmen", both of whom merely want, or wanted, to protect their idle hours entertainment. On the other hand: rape and murder are crimes against humanity, and it would seem that to equate the poaching of the King's deer with the rape and murder of one's fellow countrymen either overvalues the King's deer or undervalues one's fellow countrymen.


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## ||Downhome|| (Jan 12, 2009)

Haggis said:


> Poaching is a crime, once made so by wealthy landowners, now made so by "sportsmen", both of whom merely want, or wanted, to protect their idle hours entertainment. On the other hand: rape and murder are crimes against humanity, and it would seem that to equate the poaching of the King's deer with the rape and murder of one's fellow countrymen either overvalues the King's deer or undervalues one's fellow countrymen.


you seem to be justifying here hagis ?

we never had a king here, the animals here have always been the peoples,
even back before europeans. and because of that and poor management well 
that created the need for laws protecting game and game species and a need for wildlife management. 

some of those rich land owners you mention where major players in conserving
a lot of our natural resources and helped do a lot of good, one example for you is the national park system.

I follow the laws as best as I can, meaning I try to be knoledgable and dont intentionaly break any laws. I expect everyone else do the same. 

you know if I was so intentioned I have no doubt that I could be very succesfull violating, so succesfull in fact Im sure the nieghbors would notice an absance of said animals, a few guys like me in a close area could create a very noticably dead zone. 

I dont just hunt for fun and Im not rich,I am also not always succesfull either,wich hurts. but I do follow the rules they are there for alot of reasons.


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## catahoula (Dec 14, 2005)

I almost poached a deer with my motorcycle right on the highway last fall, although it might be more accurate to say a deer almost poached me.

My problem, which I guess I didn't explain well enough, is the nonrefundable tax a person has to pay in order to hunt. The ridicules notion that I need to ask permission to shoot a particular animal that is looting my property. I don't have to pay a tax to kill raccoons and skunks in the chicken coop and I don't have to pay a tax to shoot coyotes in the pasture. Deer... aw forget it, I can see I'm pushing a river here.


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## ||Downhome|| (Jan 12, 2009)

ya I here ya on the money but if everyone could be ethical in the first place (I know a good part of the equation was ignorance and a belife that game would always be there) people cant even play by the spelled out rules for crying out load why would they follow the unwritten ones? hence the reason for the rules, so those people can be held accountable, well you need people to enforce those rules so you need money hence the tax. though that tax goes for more then just enforcement it also goes to outdoor programs and parks service, habitat improvement and lots of other stuff. so I dont mind its not that much skin off my nose. 

but even so if you play by the rules you have some say in how that goes, you can play a role in the process and influence policy and laws. 

catahoula like I said see about a damage permit (free here in the summer) you may not have to pay a cent. if washington dosnt offer damage permits there ya go first thing you can tackle.

and I say this with all due respect cat, that animal is property of the state, you are a citizen so you own that animal but the rub lies in the fact that every other citizen has a stake in the animal too (might just be eating more at the nieghbors. So who has the larger stake in it) thats why on the permission.

management is suppose to prevent excess in population while still maintaining a "status quoa" for the enjoyment of everyone. sure they can be problems thats life you deal with it, just like anything else.

my fishing license bought me alot of fish dinners last summer/fall well worth the purchase price.


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## poorboy (Apr 15, 2006)

||Downhome|| said:


> poaching is a crime, a poacher is a criminal, and many as pointed out are just stupid! so well you pat your violating buddys on the back dont forget to go to the local prison and shake hands with the rapists,petty thieves,muderers and everyone else there they are one and the same, criminals.
> 
> I dont seperate criminals by crimes they are all the same to me, you will break one law you are more then capable of breaking others just takes the right "logic" to validate the actions and its "OK". so as I end this rant
> those that are "OK" with that sort of behavior dont complain when someone ignors the law and violates you, you have no right. laws are only for the law abiding!


Scuse me, but you sound like one of them a pig is a dog is a boy Peta types, just how your logic comes off from here..:bash:


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## ||Downhome|| (Jan 12, 2009)

petas a another group of criminals to me. validating themselfs and their ideals based upon the higer ground.

how do I sound anything like peta? Im not against hunting nor fishing, I have no problem with ethical hunting or behaviour, following the rules is ethical. 

during seasons if I can I spend all my time hunting/fishing.

Im even raise animals for my consumption so dont try to put me in the box with peta.

a criminal is a criminal and I have no love nor sypathy for such. I dont care wich law you break or why. I belive in accountability and one law for everyone. I dont agree with them all and my view changes both ways sometimes.

now if you guys want , we can just throw out the whole set of laws everything, that way its a even playing field, Im all for natural selection and might makes right just open the gates for me and let me run! Im sure I will be one of those still standing in the end.

if you dont like the laws work to change them, problem remedied.


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## alleyyooper (Apr 22, 2005)

Laws are laws and equal for every one, right.

Quick a show of hands of those who voted to release wolves in UPPER Michigan, Wisconsin and Minnesota and protect them? why weren't the wolves releaseed in big city parks?

Another quick show of hands, who got to vote unlimited does tags for less money than it cost to buy a buck tag?

Who got to vote on the price of tags, season dates, how long a season last, when a season is, bag limits.

Just the people I believe who count the deer.

Change the laws, I'll be dead before any can be changed. 

 Al


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## foxfiredidit (Apr 15, 2003)

I have never shot a deer from a public roadway. That's just way too risky for the safety concerns as well as the ethics involved because the roadway should always be clear of hazards no matter the circumstance. 

I do own some land though and if I run out of venison in October, a month before the season comes in, I will kill a young buck or doe. I guess by the legal definition that would be poaching by a somewhat extended view of the act. While I do have a somewhat critical awareness of doing that because there are laws against it, I disregard the law completely I guess since it is my property.


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## Chuck R. (Apr 24, 2008)

foxfiredidit said:


> I have never shot a deer from a public roadway. That's just way too risky for the safety concerns as well as the ethics involved because the roadway should always be clear of hazards no matter the circumstance.
> 
> I do own some land though and if I run out of venison in October, a month before the season comes in, I will kill a young buck or doe. I guess by the legal definition that would be poaching by a somewhat extended view of the act. While I do have a somewhat critical awareness of doing that because there are laws against it, I disregard the law completely I guess since it is my property.


It may be your property, but unless you own close to 1-3 square miles theyâre not necessarily âyourâ deer based on the range/habits of the average white tail.

For example, I own 80 acres, which Iâm grooming to be white tail habitat. I maintain about 19 acres in wooded âsanctuaryâ with another 5 in CRP, meaning I never go in there. I also have a 9 acre pond with running stream, rotating food sources (food plots and crops), Wild plums, persimmons, mineral sites and a feeder going 10 months of the year. Pretty much everything a deer could want; yet none of them spend 100% of their time on my property.

I run a couple trail cameras to get an assessment of whatâs there and what travel routes theyâre using. I usually have about 3 does and a couple yearlings hanging on my place throughout the year. But they also spend about 50% of their time on my neighborâs place or across the road on another neighborâs. Because of my proximity to the county line, probably half the deer I shoot arenât even residents of my county. 

From January till about late Sept, I wonât see a buck, not a single one. Once the pre-rut starts Iâll start getting pictures and seeing scrapes/rubs, once the rut is finished, theyâre gone. Iâm convinced that no bucks, other than an occasional forked horn, stay on my place year round. Once the rut starts then the mature bucks start showing up again. This year I had pictures of three 8pts, a 10pt and a couple forked horns at various times during the rut. The deer I shot pictured wasnât one of them. He was just passing through on the 2nd to last day of the season.










IMHO, even though I feed them, water them, and give them a place to sleep, theyâre not âMYâ deer until I shoot them during a legal season and put my legally purchased tag on them. 

Chuck


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## foxfiredidit (Apr 15, 2003)

> It may be your property, but unless you own close to 1-3 square miles they&#8217;re not necessarily &#8220;your&#8221; deer based on the range/habits of the average white tail.


After hunting for close to 50 years, I'm pretty much acquainted with the range/habits of whitetail deer. One pet peeve of mine is the folks who do think they own the deer just because they invest their money in grooming a piece of land for deer habitat. All I can say is good luck, my land is groomed as well and I do as I please on it.


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## raybait1 (Sep 30, 2006)

foxfiredidit said:


> After hunting for close to 50 years, I'm pretty much acquainted with the range/habits of whitetail deer. One pet peeve of mine is the folks who do think they own the deer just because they invest their money in grooming a piece of land for deer habitat. All I can say is good luck, my land is groomed as well and I do as I please on it.


And if everyone else had the same attitude, how long would the game on YOUR land last? Game animals are losing habitat at alarming rates, and are forced into greater densities on smaller and smaller tracts of land. Plentiful wildlife is an illusion. Avid sportsman or not, this should concern you.


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## Chuck R. (Apr 24, 2008)

foxfiredidit said:


> After hunting for close to 50 years, I'm pretty much acquainted with the range/habits of whitetail deer. One pet peeve of mine is the folks who do think they own the deer just because they invest their money in grooming a piece of land for deer habitat. All I can say is good luck, my land is groomed as well and I do as I please on it.


So which is it:



> One pet peeve of mine is the folks who do think they own the deer just because they invest their money in grooming a piece of land for deer habitat.


Or



> All I can say is good luck, my land is groomed as well and I do as I please on it.


Seems to me youâre talking out both sides of your mouth. IF you are familiar with the habits of deer, then you know that those does and bucks you shoot on your land arenât yours.

Youâre poaching plain and simple. I guess it doesn't matter as much because it's only a "young" buck or doe right??

Chuck


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## Danaus29 (Sep 12, 2005)

If it were not for hunting laws there would soon be no animals to hunt. When I was little it was illegal to hunt deer in Ohio at all because there were none. Thanks to bag limits and seasons there are now deer in Ohio, granted a few too many in some locations. Have those who support poaching and no limits forgotten that wildlife populations are limited? Look at the passenger pigeons and dodos. Both hunted to extinction. Many other game animals have been hunted to near extinction. As for the license fees, that money goes into wildlife management programs in your state. Here there is a park that has been reclaiming land for wildlife. When we moved to this house that park did not allow deer hunting. Now the deer population has increased and deer hunting is allowed. 

I don't need permits or a license to hunt or fish on my land. You used to have to buy a deer tag but no longer.


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## foxfiredidit (Apr 15, 2003)

> Seems to me you&#8217;re talking out both sides of your mouth. IF you are familiar with the habits of deer, then you know that those does and bucks you shoot on your land aren&#8217;t yours.
> 
> You&#8217;re poaching plain and simple. I guess it doesn't matter as much because it's only a "young" buck or doe right??


Call it what you want, matters little to me. 
I haven't killed a meat animal in several years anyway. I do hunt a 5000 acre lease on good river bottom land for deer, turkey, hogs(yuck), sometimes squirrell and after deer season goes out, we **** hunt until the weather warms up. I abide by the game laws on public land and the lease where I hunt, and I don't go across a posted sign to hunt. I don't bait deer with a corn pile or c'mere deer or whatever little fashionable gimmick there is on the market like most folks nowadays do. I'm just saying if I run out of meat before the season comes in next year and I want to take a deer on my own land, I will do it, have done it, like to do it, and will do it again, and I may do it just because I want to do it regardless of what joe blow is doing next door. 



> You&#8217;re poaching plain and simple. I guess it doesn't matter as much because it's only a "young" buck or doe right??


Wrong, you ain't reading between the lines too well are you? Whether it's a young deer or not has nothing to do with it so don't try putting words in my mouth. I like a year old deer because I like the meat better, but whether it's a young deer or an old 8 point buck that's going downhill like the one on the back of your truck there, it's still the same. you call it what you want, hunt your woodlot, sit in your shootin' house, and keep watching those TV shows that show you how to go about it.


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## johnghagen (Feb 3, 2004)

Here we go again.There is the moral season the state mandated season and the common sence season.what i mean to say is this and i will start off by saying i dont really care what you think this is how it was is and is going to be here on my place.The state says you can start shooting deer on Oct 1 and quit shooting deer on Jan17 of the next year.This season is wrong as the does are hungery and dumb in Jan and are also with fawns in them about the size of a quart fruit jar.The bow hunters can keep buying doe tags till they run out of money,and they do a give the meat to the misson or waste it and sell salami this is wrong get what you want to eat and quit.What makes me a poacher is that i get what i want when the time is right for the deer Nov. and two weeks in Dec,my theory is that if you cant kill a deer before christmas the go to the grocery store.I get three deer each year during that time not from the road and such nonsence and we eat every part.Leagle no but moral yes.I know a young man that has not worked since last Sept and wont ask for free gov handouts and he got the deer he needed for his family and i helped him process them and to me he is not a poacher but the law says that since he didnt have a tag he is myself i think they just wanted the 20.00$


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## Chuck R. (Apr 24, 2008)

foxfiredidit said:


> Call it what you want, matters little to me.
> I haven't killed a meat animal in several years anyway. I do hunt a 5000 acre lease on good river bottom land for deer, turkey, hogs(yuck), sometimes squirrell and after deer season goes out, we **** hunt until the weather warms up. I abide by the game laws on public land and the lease where I hunt, and I don't go across a posted sign to hunt. I don't bait deer with a corn pile or c'mere deer or whatever little fashionable gimmick there is on the market like most folks nowadays do. I'm just saying if I run out of meat before the season comes in next year and I want to take a deer on my own land, I will do it, have done it, like to do it, and will do it again, and I may do it just because I want to do it regardless of what joe blow is doing next door.
> 
> Wrong, you ain't reading between the lines too well are you? Whether it's a young deer or not has nothing to do with it so don't try putting words in my mouth. I like a year old deer because I like the meat better, but whether it's a young deer or an old 8 point buck that's going downhill like the one on the back of your truck there, it's still the same. you call it what you want, hunt your woodlot, sit in your shootin' house, and keep watching those TV shows that show you how to go about it.


Dude, Iâm not putting jack chit in your mouth, you're doing a bang up job all on your own. Did you or did you not type this? (bold highlight is mine)



foxfiredidit said:


> I do own some land though and if I run out of venison in October, a month before the season comes in, *I will kill a young buck or doe.* I guess by the legal definition that would be poaching by a somewhat extended view of the act. While I do have a somewhat critical awareness of doing that because there are laws against it, I disregard the law completely I guess since it is my property.


"extended view of the act" ????? What's next, "I did not have sex with that woman"?

This is probably one of the worst âentitlementâ posts Iâve read. Iâll shorten it up for you, âI own, therefore I canâ. Pretty much sums it up doesn't it. As I see it, by your own admission you are a poacher, which by most states definitions is a thief. 

You can rationalize it anyway you like, but the facts are still the same. The *âyoung buck or doeâ* comment was just youâre way of rationalizing that youâre not as bad as the guy that spotlights a big buck just for the rack. 

Same as this comment: 



> I'm just saying if I run out of meat before the season comes in next year and I want to take a deer on my own land, I will do it, have done it, like to do it, and will do it again, and I may do it just because I want to do it regardless of what joe blow is doing next door.


Because youâre out of meat, youâre going to conduct your own little private early season. Itâs just another rationalization. Youâre going to steal from your neighbors. For example; little Jimmy next door might not see a deer this year cause you ran out of meat and were entitled to take one whenever you felt like it because you own the land. 

And weâre supposed to believe that when that big old 10 pt strolls by 45 minutes after sunset during your "special private early season" youâre going to give him a pass right? 

Because that's the ethical thing to do. 

I mean why worry about legal shooting times during an illegal hunt right? Youâre already cheating by hunting a month early, whatâs a few minutes here or there? And IF you know deer the way you say you do, you know exactly what kind of edge youâre âlittle private early seasonâ gives you. 

And the


> I don't bait deer with a corn pile or c'mere deer or whatever little fashionable gimmick there is on the market like most folks nowadays do.


 Comment?

Youâve got to be chitting me! Youâll admit to shooting deer out of season, and then look down your nose at some guy that uses c'mere deer?

C'mon, your ethical/moral compass is just a lttle bit out of whack. 

Now you can do whatever you want to do and rationalize it however you want, but don't go calling yourself a hunter, and definately don't try to pass yourself off as any kind of sportsman. 

Man up and wear your poacher label with pride, you've earned it. 

Chuck


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## foxfiredidit (Apr 15, 2003)

I ain't your "dude", Jack Chit. You dress up in your Cabela's uniform and run down to your local diner and hold court with all your fans and impress them with your manly man talk. If being a generation x booger nosed wanna be suits your style class, you go for it. You may be hot rocks in the land of "no deer" but Jack Chit don't mean chit to me. 



> For example, I own 80 acres, which I&#8217;m grooming to be white tail habitat. I maintain about 19 acres in wooded &#8220;sanctuary&#8221; with another 5 in CRP, meaning I never go in there. I also have a 9 acre pond with running stream, rotating food sources (food plots and crops), Wild plums, persimmons, mineral sites and a feeder going 10 months of the year. Pretty much everything a deer could want; yet none of them spend 100% of their time on my property.
> 
> From January till about late Sept, I won&#8217;t see a buck, not a single one. Once the pre-rut starts I&#8217;ll start getting pictures and seeing scrapes/rubs, once the rut is finished, they&#8217;re gone. I&#8217;m convinced that no bucks, other than an occasional forked horn, stay on my place year round. Once the rut starts then the mature bucks start showing up again. This year I had pictures of three 8pts, a 10pt and a couple forked horns at various times during the rut. The deer I shot pictured wasn&#8217;t one of them. He was just passing through on the 2nd to last day of the season.


You gotta be kidding me.......you're doing all that and they ain't even hanging around? You have 80 acres and you only got photos of 4 shooter bucks and lucked up and whacked a stray......well he does look like a stray at that. Even the deer don't like you. No wonder you get your pink panties in a wad at the mere mention of someone taking a deer out of the government mandated season. Just follow the money, and with all that I'd say you're wasting yours. Go buy yourself a pay hunt behind a tall fence somewhere, you'll get just as much out of it. Actually it's you who think you own the deer, and even the deer on your neighbors property, pretty evident you're a greedy guy.

With 1.8 million deer running around this state all you really have to do is find some white oaks and sit in the woods on a nice afternoon, and that's if you don't really feel like making a big effort at it. I bumped a 151 B & C last year walking a two year clear cut with knee high pines. If you know what you're doing and how to really hunt outside a wooden box 10 feet off the ground 40 yards from your bait pile, you can kill you one too Jack Chit.......just get out there and try a little harder. Did I put him on the wall? No, he went in the freezer and his horns went home with a guy from Louisianna cause he never saw a rack that big. 

After re-reading your little rant I realize now that with all you're putting into it and what little you're getting out of it, and how afraid you are that one of your neigbors is going to take something you want to set aside for yourself, even though it's their land, that misery can be home made and self perpetuating. I kinda feel sorry for you in that respect. I only take a deer from my land when I want it and that's only when the weather cools down in the fall. In the spring and summer, if they start in on my garden and sweet corn I don't even bother to find them and pick them up. 

Like I said 1.8 million deer running around. Up until last year you could hunt from mid October to January 31st with a bag limit of one buck per day and one doe per day. Now it's 3 antlered bucks per year and one doe per day with little or no change in the seeson dates. I like the 3 antlered bucks rule, that's responsible for the big B & C buck I killed, he got to live a little longer just so I could find him and fix him up with a load of 000.


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## Haggis (Mar 11, 2004)

Since this thread began I caught a young doe in a snare here on my 100 acres; the first time I've done so in more than 20 years. She was caught by a front hoof and wasn't harmed. When I tried to turn her loose she rared up and did the whole "pawing the air" routine a couple of times, but finally I got hold of her leg, held her down, and removed the snare. She left there like she was shot from a cannon.

I told this story to several common sense people and everyone said the same thing; "I wouldn't have risked the chance of being hurt." and "Why didn't you put her in the freezer?"

I have nothing against poachers of deer, I don't poach, but I would in a heartbeat if the spirit struck me just right. There is nothing morally wrong with poaching deer, and it is only illegal because the "state" has figured out they can make money selling lottery tickets disguised as hunting licenses. One thing I would like to hear from those hunters who take responsibility for the increase in the deer population via the purchase of hunting licenses and laws protecting deer. Just once I should enjoy hearing them admit that due to the increase deer herd, for which they claim said responsibility, they are directly to blame for the destruction of private property, personal injury, and deaths of their fellow Americans, and all so they can have few moments yearly at playing Daniel Boone and the hopes of bagging a wee deer.

No, poaching deer isn't morally wrong, in point of fact, poachers, when poachers poach safely, they are doing a public service.


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## Chuck R. (Apr 24, 2008)

Foxfiredidit,

You just donât get it do you. EVERYTHING you say from this post on as far as your hunting skill. prowess etc. is suspect. 

That B&C might as just as easily been one of your âSpecial Early Seasonâ young ones as far as we know.

Youâve admitted to poaching (stealing) game, youâre a thief, and a criminal as far as game laws are concerned. Your opinion when it comes to hunting ethics, bait piles, Cmere Deer, Cabelaâs wardrobes isnât worth squat. ( donât know what youâve got against Cabelaâs, must be something that happened in your childhood.)

Itâs not about me; itâs about your apparent inability to fill a tag within the lawful season and the bottom line is you cheat. 1.8 million deer and a season from mid October to January 31st and you still have to choke up on the season by a month? And now you admit to âwanton Wasteâ just cause they strayed into your garden? 

Might be time for a new hobby âdudeâ.

So continue to pat yourself on the back for all those deer you took legitimately, and try your best to forget/rationalize all the ones you didnât. 
Iâll end this now before you have an aneurism trying to come up with some witty post. Itâs not like we travel in the same circles, and Iâm sure Iâll get over not getting a card from you this Christmas. 

Bottom line is your set in your ways, and Iâm not going to waste any more time with you.

Chuck


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## foxfiredidit (Apr 15, 2003)

Good, your soap box is tipping badly.
Your posting was a waste your time from the git go. Keep on profiling and baiting deer, you're bound to impress someone sooner or later. Who knows, you may even kill a decent buck one of these days. Just be sure to clean the corn out of it's mouth before you get your photo taken. We will look forward in your future posts to see some evidence of reform.


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