# If your power were to go POOF...



## A.T. Hagan (May 1, 2002)

For the sake of this exercise let us assume that it is now high noon today where ever you are, whatever your local weather, and so on.

Precisely at the stroke of noon your power goes out. No immediate, apparent reason for it doing so, it just goes out.

What do you do?

After we've gathered some responses I'll extend the time line a bit and begin to provide some clues so let's keep this to your immediate response. No power, no apparent reason for it going out.

What do you do?


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## ET1 SS (Oct 22, 2005)

A.T. Hagan said:


> ... No immediate, apparent reason for it doing so, it just goes out.


The power in our town, normally goes out every month, at least once a month. I tracked it for eleven years, but once we went to solar power for our farm, then I quit keeping track of the power outages.

A typical outage could be for an hour, or it could be for 4 days, there is no way to predict the length of power outages here in town.


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

I'd call the power company to report the outage, and to find out the extent.
Most of the time they can give an estimated time of restoration.
If it's going to be a long time, I crank the generator and run a few drop cords.

Our longest one so far was just short of 5 full days.
The long ones are almost always associated with hurricanes so there's ample warning.
I can stock enough fuel to run the generator nearly non stop for a few months.


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## robin416 (Dec 29, 2019)

Same here, power going off is not an event, it's normal. I'd probably wait four hours then go fire up the propane genny.


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

My generator automatically kicks in. I have enough fuel for 2 weeks full load.

I would report the outage. Find out when it is expected to return.

I would ration my fuel if it looks like a very long or indefinite outrage.

I'd learn to live without electricity.


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## Cabin Fever (May 10, 2002)

Put another log on the fire and read a good book. Go to bed when it gets dark.

If the power outage is extended. Chop some ice to put in the refrigerator and bring the stuff from the freezer outside to the porch.


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

Cabin Fever said:


> bring the stuff from the freezer outside to the porch.


You need a bear-proof box for that.


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## Cabin Fever (May 10, 2002)

Bearfootfarm said:


> You need a bear-proof box for that.


They are all hibernating right now.


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

Cabin Fever said:


> Put another log on the fire and read a good book. Go to bed when it gets dark.
> 
> If the power outage is extended. Chop some ice to put in the refrigerator and bring the stuff from the freezer outside to the porch.


How did folks have ice in the summer a century ago?


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

Cabin Fever said:


> They are all hibernating right now.


That's what they want you to think.
They are devious.....


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## AmericanStand (Jul 29, 2014)

I guess the first thing I would do a pull over and pop the hood and see if there was any obvious reason


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## Cabin Fever (May 10, 2002)

HDRider said:


> How did folks have ice in the summer a century ago?


On January 9 at noon in northern Minnesota, ice (and snow) was just as available a century ago as it is today. The low tonight is forecast to be 3ºF and tomorrow night -14ºF.


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## emdeengee (Apr 20, 2010)

This happened this morning. Suddenly pitch dark in the house. Sun does not come up until just before 10 am. 

Husband was in the shower. I was upstairs in my office. Walked to the bedroom to get the big flashlight. Rescued husband in shower with light so that he could rinse, repeat and dry off and dress warmly. 

Put on extra sweater. 
Went downstairs to get out the other flashlights. Got out crank radio and cranked and tuned in to local news.

Moved the old phone that is the only thing that works without power especially if it affects the cells into the living room. 

Poured a cup of still hot coffee, Sat on the couch with husband. Waited for news of what was happening and where and how long the outage was expected to last. This is nothing new for us.

The house so well insulated that it loses one degree every 5 hours even when the temperature is minus 24 Celsius as it is today.

Most difficult thing was trying to find 3 black cats in the pitch dark. They all have iridescent yellow or green eyes but I think the little stinkers closed their eyes when they knew we were looking for them.

If the outage lasts longer than a few hours we move on to Plan B.

The main thing is to keep calm and carry on.


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## AmericanStand (Jul 29, 2014)

HDRider said:


> How did folks have ice in the summer a century ago?


Ice houses/cellars

very well insulated structures in cool places that were filled with ice during the winter


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## Cabin Fever (May 10, 2002)

Cabin Fever said:


> Put another log on the fire and read a good book. Go to bed when it gets dark.
> 
> If the power outage is extended. Chop some ice to put in the refrigerator and bring the stuff from the freezer outside to the porch.


Edited to add: If extended, start getting water from our outdoor hand pump (yes, it works quite nicely in subzero temps) and use some of it to flush the toilets or we could always use the outhouse.


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## Cabin Fever (May 10, 2002)

AmericanStand said:


> Ice houses/cellars


They wouldn't be using ice from an ice house in January in Minnesota. They would, however, be taking it off the lakes for use later in the years during the warm months.


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## CKelly78z (Jul 16, 2017)

Not a big deal for us in January, we have 2 freezers in the garage, and a fridge full of food/drinks that could last for weeks. Last night I fixed a really good pot of chili on the top of my woodstove (not using the electric stove). We always have about 20 individual gallons of drinking water in the basement,and another 800 gallons in our hot tub, for flushing toilets into our septic system.
We don't generally keep many lights on in the house, so darkness isn't a problem. We have plenty of guns/ammo to keep the boogey man away.


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## IlliniosGal (Jun 3, 2019)

I would do nothing as my whole house generator would come on and the day would go on as normal.


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## Cabin Fever (May 10, 2002)

My brother-in-law, who lives in Florida, had a whole-house generator. When he had it installed, he claimed the family could survive any hurricane that Mother Nature could throw at them. Well, I believe it was Hurricane Ivan that came a callin'. Guess what the first downed palm tree fell on?


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## muleskinner2 (Oct 7, 2007)

Well, let's see. Lamps are full of oil, check. Wood box is full of wood, check. Stock tanks are topped off every day, so they wont need filled again for two days. If the power was still out at bed time, I would run the generator for one hour. This keeps the freezer cold, and pumps water for the house. Then, go to bed. 

I have enough wood, lamp oil, and fire wood, to last till summer gets here. So, sometime in the first week of April I would give the power company a call and find out when they thought the power might come back on.


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

Cabin Fever said:


> On January 9 at noon in northern Minnesota, ice (and snow) was just as available a century ago as it is today. The low tonight is forecast to be 3ºF and tomorrow night -14ºF.


Summer


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## A.T. Hagan (May 1, 2002)

OK, we've had a good number of responses.

And, of course, you all made perfectly reasonable responses to what is a not uncommon occurrence for a lot of us. I keep my power company number in my cell phone for this very reason.

So, let us now complicate matters a bit.

The power went off at your local noon. Many of you would phone your power company, some would start your generators, or open your car hood to see what was the matter.

Except that when you pick up your landline or cell phone you get crackling static, but no connection.

Your radios also only give crackly static (battery powered, of course). Televisions the same. If you're using satellite devices it's an open question as I'm not sure with those.

For those of you who have off-grid power whether it's solar, wind, or instant-on whole house generators I will say that unless you have been very careful in the way your system was configured and wired your power went poof along with those of us on the grid.

You folks who are in your cars? Well, for you, take out a coin and flip it. Heads your car still runs. Tails it shut off and will not start again. Your battery is charged, the motor will (probably) turn over, but it will not start.

Now, don't scoff. I know of at least two for-real scenarios - one natural, one man-made - where this very phenomena can occur. They are fortunately low in probability, but they can occur.

It is now ten minutes past your local noon. You know now what I have related above.

What do you do?


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

A.T. Hagan said:


> Now, don't scoff. I know of at least two for-real scenarios - one natural, one man-made - where *this very phenomena* can occur. They are fortunately low in probability, but they can occur.


I think the threat of any man made EMP is over hyped

A "Carrington Event" type of EMP will be more serious, but still probably not as bad as many like to envision. There are too many variables and unproven theories.

Either way though, we're going into PAW fiction scenarios now.


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## muleskinner2 (Oct 7, 2007)

See previous post. No need to do anything different.


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

muleskinner2 said:


> See previous post. No need to do anything different.


Me too.


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## A.T. Hagan (May 1, 2002)

Bearfootfarm said:


> I think the threat of any man made EMP is over hyped
> 
> A "Carrington Event" type of EMP will be more serious, but still probably not as bad as many like to envision. There are too many variables and unproven theories.
> 
> Either way though, we're going into PAW fiction scenarios now.


No way to know if they are over-hyped until one actually happens. Which I hope never will.

The point is that confronted with unexpected and unknown phenomena what do you do?

Coping with the unknown is at the heart of prepping. We cannot count on anyone giving us warning. Nor can we count on knowing what is going on at the moment the deal goes down. You are confronted with an unexpected and unknown situation. What are you going to do?

We've had several near misses in my life time. Some man-made, some natural phenomena. For the great part of the world public they would have all come as a surprise.


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

The big fear of an event should be the meandering hordes, and then the organized gangs. It ain't going to be pretty. Organizing your neighbors would be key then.


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

A.T. Hagan said:


> You are confronted with an unexpected and unknown situation. What are you going to do?


Power outages aren't "unknown and unexpected".
Anything beyond that is speculation about events that have never happened.


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## A.T. Hagan (May 1, 2002)

Well, of course, again that is the point.

It hss never happened before.

Things that have never happened before do occur. Fortunately the ones that have major consequences occur only rarely. But, rare is not never.

If you don't want to play feel free to bow out.


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

A.T. Hagan said:


> Well, of course, again that is the point.


My point is any answers given now are just speculation.
People will either adapt and survive or they will die.


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## Cabin Fever (May 10, 2002)

HDRider said:


> Summer


But if you read the OP, the power outage occurred today - January 9 - not in the summer.


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## IlliniosGal (Jun 3, 2019)

Cabin Fever said:


> My brother-in-law, who lives in Florida, had a whole-house generator. When he had it installed, he claimed the family could survive any hurricane that Mother Nature could throw at them. Well, I believe it was Hurricane Ivan that came a callin'. Guess what the first downed palm tree fell on?


That is why mine along with the propane tank are located where trees cannot fall on them.


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## Cabin Fever (May 10, 2002)

For the cell phones, radio, and vehicles, etc. not working, I would not change my response either. 

If a week goes by with no response from the outside world, I would consider harvesting a few deer.


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

Cabin Fever said:


> But if you read the OP, the power outage occurred today - January 9 - not in the summer.


And was leading up to a more permanent outage. 

I asked you a simple question and you wanted to be a wisenhimmer. I get it


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## Lisa in WA (Oct 11, 2004)

The end of the world as we know it notwithstanding, if our power goes out here in the city we swear a bit anD then contact the power company. All of the power lines are above ground and our area is a ponderosa forest so it can go out regularly. Which is why we are getting g a whole house natural gas generator next month, thank goodness. if it’s the end of the world we will jump off a bridge. Not really but it saves a lecture.

out at the cabin on the river we were set for power outages. Off grid, then grid tied. Everything worked without power and we had a whole house genny.


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## GTX63 (Dec 13, 2016)

I see electricity is a convenience. My mother saw it as a necessity but she has passed so that is that.
Thus it becomes the utility company's problem.
If at 10 after twelve I pick up the phone and all I get is static, then I note the time and date as when I am no longer responsible for the bill.
It is January so my stove is already burning wood long and toasty.
My only concern would be my daughter and her family and my two sons in college. After a couple of days I would load the truck with fuel and semi automatic tools in case I should run into social work and head for their locations for retrieval.
I tend to make out of life what it gives me; either that or a heavy lunch is contributing to my current apathy.


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## oldasrocks (Oct 27, 2006)

When our juice goes off we have to wait a whole 60 seconds for it to come back on. Love Generac.


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## Evons hubby (Oct 3, 2005)

A.T. Hagan said:


> For the sake of this exercise let us assume that it is now high noon today where ever you are, whatever your local weather, and so on.
> 
> Precisely at the stroke of noon your power goes out. No immediate, apparent reason for it doing so, it just goes out.
> 
> ...


Take a nap.


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## GTX63 (Dec 13, 2016)

A.T. Hagan said:


> No way to know if they are over-hyped until one actually happens. Which I hope never will.
> 
> The point is that confronted with unexpected and unknown phenomena what do you do?
> 
> ...


In the event of long term, actually anything more than a day or so, communities tend to come together.
Here in the country, it is neighbors; maybe in urban areas it would be churches as well as community centers, and where more government services would be available. The stronger the need, the quicker the help would be applied.
Looters are gonna loot. They are on mission as soon as they notice the doors won't close at walmart.
That is based on some initial human behavior, in general, and specifically, before any major social breakdown would occur, which happens when the microwavables go bad.


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## [email protected] (Sep 16, 2009)

It was not that long ago that we all didn't have any electricity. people survived for eons without it.
I would try to find out when and if the electricity would come back on. If it was going to be a long time, I would retrieve my wood stove from the shop and bring it back into the house.
then empty the freezers and take the food outside to keep it frozen.(winter) .
(summer): keep the freezers closed as much as possible for as long as possible. when the food begins to thaw, empty the freezers.
after that begin to learn how to adapt..
hope to have some gas in reserve because the gas stations pump with electricity..
Other than that, I don't know..


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## gilberte (Sep 25, 2004)

Cabin Fever said:


> For the cell phones, radio, and vehicles, etc. not working, I would not change my response either.
> 
> If a week goes by with no response from the outside world, *I would consider harvesting a few deer.*


 Hey! I thought you were one of them card carrying vegans, or vegetarians, or whatever the current lingo is


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## Skandi (Oct 21, 2014)

So power goes out, look out the window and see if the neighbours have power. if they don't then just wait after 2-3 hours call them. Now if the phones were showing no signal then I would get out the spare duvets and wrap up the freezer, make sure the candles and matches are where they should be, fill a couple of buckets with water for the toilet and get out a board game at 12pm we have about 3.5hours of daylight left so it would be a very early bed! Back in England in the 80's we often had power outages lasting up to 10 days trees were forever coming down on the lines, you get used to it, we had a gas cooker and open fires. candles were kept in a cupboard behind the living room door along with matches, everyone knew where they were. the most annoying thing was the burgler alarm, you could only put it in a "pause" mode so it still beeped every 5 minutes or so.


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## CKelly78z (Jul 16, 2017)

If I suspect an EMP has hit, and it may be months/years until power, and normalcy returns, I would instantly go into military mode. At noon today, I am sitting at work, which is about 10 miles from home (3 hour long walk), so I would collect whatever I thought I might need from work into a garbage bag (toilet paper, paper plates, excess food, extra trash bags) and start walking home. I would stop at my car, and get my CCW, and my small GHB, and any bottles of water I have.

My first stop would be to my parents house (on my home route) to tell them what this situation entails, and invite them to the farm if things get bad. I don't believe most folks would have any clue what is happening in the first few hours, so safe travel might still be possible, but my gun would be loaded, and ready.

My 10 acre farm is near only 1 other house (an elderly couple), but if the power hadn't come back on after a few days, I suspect that folks will start to get hungry/desperate, and start thinking about how they can TAKE what they need regardless of the law. This is the reason I have some preps, and enough guns to defend what belongs to my family.


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## Cabin Fever (May 10, 2002)

gilberte said:


> Hey! I thought you were one of them card carrying vegans, or vegetarians, or whatever the current lingo is


Not during TEOTWAWKI  It beats eating snow.


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## Evons hubby (Oct 3, 2005)

[email protected] said:


> It was not that long ago that we all didn't have any electricity. people survived for eons without it.
> I would try to find out when and if the electricity would come back on. If it was going to be a long time, I would retrieve my wood stove from the shop and bring it back into the house.
> then empty the freezers and take the food outside to keep it frozen.(winter) .
> (summer): keep the freezers closed as much as possible for as long as possible. when the food begins to thaw, empty the freezers.
> ...


Yup, not that long ago people did fine without power. But we as a society have changed a lot since then. We have become dependent on power tools and equipment to provide for nearly everything we have or do. By doing fine I'm talking about survival and not real good at that. Life was normally short and brutal compared to today. A broken leg was often fatal. Disease was rampant.... Penicillin wasn't readily available until after WWII. Who knows how to make it? How to store it? What about salt? How many have a salt mine on their homestead? The list is lengthy of basics that would be unavailable without power. Nope, I will just take a nap.... Don't need any of that whole scenario. There are still a few spots on the globe where things aren't power dependent, mankind may survive but it will be many generations before the power comes back on.


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## emdeengee (Apr 20, 2010)

Loss of electricity will be a huge problem. Can't even pump gas. There are places where people are not as power dependent - in fact there are many countries where power is only available at certain times of the day for a specific number of hours or even just on specific days. 

We are very power dependent and on big power which is why so many are investing in their own power generation such as solar panels.My husband has been using solar panels in his work for over 23 years. The comparison to what was and what is would be like comparing a single propeller plane to a jet.

Refrigeration that became available to the masses and for industry was one of the greatest inventions of all times. It prevented millions from getting very ill or dying over the last century and today. Without electricity we will be back in the very unsafe past.


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## JeepHammer (May 12, 2015)

A.T. Hagan said:


> For the sake of this exercise let us assume that it is now high noon today where ever you are, whatever your local weather, and so on.
> 
> Precisely at the stroke of noon your power goes out. No immediate, apparent reason for it doing so, it just goes out.
> 
> ...


Except for time of day, you just described what it's like on Rural Electric around here...

In my case I'm off grid already, and redundant, so if the first fails, the second (smaller) solar kicks right in.
If the secondary fails, then I have to push a button and turn a knob for the third system.

I got started installing 24 Volt LFP batteries yesterday and worked all night, I have enough battery to run for a couple weeks without sun now, provided the machine/welding shop wasn't working...

I've got a bunch of new panels on a truck somewhere between here and California, supposedly the shipped yesterday afternoon.
When those get here I'll make enough power for a few houses, or one house and a machine shop for a few days without sun, but everything will get charged in one full sun day if that happens.

I have inverters for 120 vac, 240 vac, 440 3phase, and a couple spares for the 240 house power.

The system paid for itself in 9 years with the rate hikes, and some of it's over 20 years old now.
I just ran into some screaming good deals now that the president has killed all incentives, I bought mine just under the wire, full well knowing it would take a month or more to get it...

I'd say if you are polite, if YOUR power went out for long duration, you could probably come here and get some relief...


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## HermitJohn (May 10, 2002)

I spent most of 80s living off grid. Propane refrigerator, stove. Kerosene lights. Not worst thing in world, hand pump for well. Then February 2009, mother of all ice storms and my power off for WHOLE MONTH. Got a lesson on how things had changed. Batteries and LED lights lot more economical than buying kerosene. Rigged up lawn mower engine to run car alternator to charge car battery so I could use cell phone and laptop. 

You know most annoying thing that February, had one neighbor running NOISY cheap generator 24/7. Hey I dont blame him, but it was super annoying everytime I stepped outside. I hate constant man made noise. Figure after he paid for all that gasoline plus had to live constantly right next to that generator ( I am half mile away) that he paid for his sins.


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## damoc (Jul 14, 2007)

1st check cell phone and radio's if they are both ok its a local normal outage and i would wait about a hour before moving to start generators pull extra wood inside check and replace batteries in flashlights and radios etc.
If cell phone and radio is out id move straight to "panic" id probably start checking vehicals and battery powered items to see what i had to work with.I would also be on high alert for nuclear attack.


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## MichaelZ (May 21, 2013)

Good question by the OP!

We would survive, but it would be tough. Would be running the small fireplace full bore - it won't keep the house real warm, but will keep it near 60 unless the temps were below zero. Water from a running artesian well in available next door. Cooking would be a challenge except for over an open fire outside. On the plus side, we would probably be able to store all of our frozen food out on the porch for a good two months. As for the frig - I think our house itself might suffice! Probably should invest in an additional propane cylinder or two for the grill to enable some cooking. Or maybe a camping stove. And I have a chimney opening for a stove pipe that is just plugged up now - that could be used for an additional stove for heat. So maybe get another stove.

The reason we have the wood stove we have now is due to a power outage over 20 years ago in the dead of winter.


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## lmrose (Sep 24, 2009)

HDRider said:


> How did folks have ice in the summer a century ago?


When my husband was young and his Dad and Grand father before him they would go with the horses and sled onto a near by lake and chisel out blocks of ice to bring home. Some farmers used a team of oxen instead of horses.

At the farm they had built a cement block building with no windows and used it for an ice house. In it blocks of ice were covered in saw dust from a near by mill. Ice kept cold all summer and they knocked off portions to put in vats of water where the metal milk cans were put to keep cold. The dairy truck picked up the milk cans every two or three day to take to the dairy and pasteurize and bottle the milk. Another milk truck delivered the bottled milk to homes where people bought it to drink. Before automobiles were available to the average person deliveries were made by horse and wagon. If you wanted to make ice cream you chipped off ice and put it and rock salt in the hand cranked ice cream freezer. 

In homes before refrigerators people had oak ice boxes which had a tin lined compartment in the top half. It held a big block of ice. The lower half of the heavy ice box held your food. As late as 1973 I had an ice box when I lived in Grand Rapids Michigan. I could still take my kids wagon two miles to an ice plant and buy blocks of ice. That only lasted until it became unpopular as I was probably the last person buying ice for an ice box!. A block of ice kept in the ice box out of sunlight, would last three days and the ice box stayed cold!

Pioneers who dug wells would build shelves in the top of the well to store butter and milk on. Wells keep things cool. Or they built well house without windows over the well. There would be shelves in the well house to store food items on. No electric, no power bills! How I long for the good ole' days!


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## lmrose (Sep 24, 2009)

When power goes out we are always prepared. At the cabin and farm we do not have power. At the trailer where we stay winters is power but there is a wood stove in the basement . The trailer and cabin both have lots of windows so we take advantage of sunlight to help keep us warm. Power is a convenience to us but not a necessity. I have a couple of small freezers but they to are a convenience I can do without. I don't have a cooking stove or fridg and make out fine with slow cookers, a toaster oven, hot plate and heating stove to cook on if need be. At the farm there is a small wood stove and solar cooker. Because I have freezers I freeze icepacks and put them in a cooler to keep food cool.Then again we could go back easily to more primitive methods of cooling such as an ice house or well. We don't mind when power is off as the light bill will be smaller next time around.


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## Cabin Fever (May 10, 2002)

lmrose said:


> When my husband was young and his Dad and Grand father before him they would go with the horses and sled onto a near by lake and chisel out blocks of ice to bring home.


My dairy farming grandparents used ice saws to saw out large blocks of ice from the lake. I suppose they may have had to chisel out a hole in the ice to insert the saw blade.


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## gleepish (Mar 10, 2003)

Hmmm.... This is an interesting post... I'll play!  

So power has gone out today (it was about 32f and raining at noon if I remember correctly). I immediately pick up my phone and check for a signal--regardless of the signal, I send a text to my husband that power is out. Then I'd sit and wait to see what happens. 

Playing along, it's now 10-15 minutes later, and still no power? Now I'm trying to reach out to my electric company to find out if there is an ETA... no phone (landline or cell) so I'm getting concerned but not panicking. I don't have my generator going yet so no TV to check (antenna only) and we're in the boonies so no radio option for me without power. Next I'd walk out and make sure the lines for the generator are handy and ready to go, and grab the extra gas from the shed. Then I'd grab the empty gallon jugs and walk down to the well (it's a running well, so water is always... running) and fill all the extra jugs (there is already a filled 5gal one in the bathroom for this very reason)... 

I've got about an hour before I need to worry about starting the generator (power is usually on within 60 minutes if it's a 'normal' outage), so at this point (it's only been 10 minutes after all) I'll grab a book, and a blanket and wait for the next update....


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## muleskinner2 (Oct 7, 2007)

Cabin Fever said:


> My dairy farming grandparents used ice saws to saw out large blocks of ice from the lake. I suppose they may have had to chisel out a hole in the ice to insert the saw blade.


When I lived in Teller Alaska, all of our drinking water had to be hauled in. We had a small water truck, we pumped water from a stream in the summer and supplied the entire village. In the winter we hauled blocks of ice from the stream, kept them in two fifty five gallon drums in the kitchen. The village set on a sand bar next to the ocean, so all of the well water was brine water. It was fine for bathing and washing dishes, but too salty to drink.

The village was powered by a private power plant. Four diesel generators, usually two running at a time. We burned about one thousand gallons of fuel a week. I ran the power plant for three seasons.


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## Cabin Fever (May 10, 2002)

muleskinner2 said:


> When I lived in Teller Alaska, all of our drinking water had to be hauled in. We had a small water truck, we pumped water from a stream in the summer and supplied the entire village. In the winter we hauled blocks of ice from the stream, kept them in two fifty five gallon drums in the kitchen. The village set on a sand bar next to the ocean, so all of the well water was brine water. It was fine for bathing and washing dishes, but too salty to drink.
> 
> The village was powered by a private power plant. Four diesel generators, usually two running at a time. We burned about one thousand gallons of fuel a week. I ran the power plant for three seasons.


Sounds similar to the way things were conducted when I was with the Inuit in Arviat, NWT on the shores of Hudson's Bay. For them, the oil had to be transported in during the summer via tanker ships on Hudson's Bay. The oil was used for home heating and electrical generation. Water was delivered to each home in tracked Bombardier vehicles having a tank. The frsh water was collected from inland ponds and lakes. The water was nursed into holding tanks at each home from the Bombardier. There was a bath house in the village that everyone used for bathing. There was no bathing in the homes.

Besides the fresh water tank in each home, there was also a sewage tank in them. A Bombardier tracked tanker pumped out the sewage tanks. The sewage was dumped some wheres inland. The standing joke was there was only one Bombardier tanker. It delivered fresh water in the mornings and pumped out sewage in the afternoons.


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## muleskinner2 (Oct 7, 2007)

Cabin Fever said:


> Sounds similar to the way things were conducted when I was with the Inuit in Arviat, NWT on the shores of Hudson's Bay. For them, the oil had to be transported in during the summer via tanker ships on Hudson's Bay. The oil was used for home heating and electrical generation. Water was delivered to each home in tracked Bombardier vehicles having a tank. The frsh water was collected from inland ponds and lakes. The water was nursed into holding tanks at each home from the Bombardier. There was a bath house in the village that everyone used for bathing. There was no bathing in the homes.
> 
> Besides the fresh water tank in each home, there was also a sewage tank in them. A Bombardier tracked tanker pumped out the sewage tanks. The sewage was dumped some wheres inland. The standing joke was there was only one Bombardier tanker. It delivered fresh water in the mornings and pumped out sewage in the afternoons.


The trading post, the school, and the house I lived in had a sewage tank with drain field. None of the other homes had indoor plumbing. Everybody used honey buckets. They ether dumped them in the road, or out on the ice in the harbor. There would be a pile of poop as large as a house by spring. And then it would all be gone one morning when the ice went out. Every house had a stove that used fuel oil, but no electricity. So they had heat even if the generators went down. We sold lamp oil in five gallon cans, and propane in 100 gallon tanks at the trading post. And many homes had a camp stove that would burn the lamp oil. But most important of all, everybody had a color tv with one station.

Our fuel oil was delivered in September by an ocean going barge. They would unload 260,000 gallons of diesel, and 50,000 of gas in about three hours. That would have to last until next September.


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## remmettn (Dec 26, 2005)

*https://sciencing.com/potato-light-bulb-experiment-kids-12105514.html*

*Making a Potato Battery/ light*
Put a 3-inch copper nail and a 3-inch zinc nail into the potato about 1 inch apart from each other. Push the nails to a depth of about 1 1/2 inches. Cut two 6-inch strips of very thin wire and remove 1/2 inch of plastic from the ends of the wire strips. Wrap one of the ends of each wire strip around the top of each nail. Put the opposite ends of the wire onto the two terminals on a 1-volt LED bulb. The LED illuminates, but it’s rather dim because very little electricity is made.


In the land of the blind a one eyed man is king

In darkness any light is useful


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## 101pigs (Sep 18, 2018)

Skandi said:


> So power goes out, look out the window and see if the neighbours have power. if they don't then just wait after 2-3 hours call them. Now if the phones were showing no signal then I would get out the spare duvets and wrap up the freezer, make sure the candles and matches are where they should be, fill a couple of buckets with water for the toilet and get out a board game at 12pm we have about 3.5hours of daylight left so it would be a very early bed! Back in England in the 80's we often had power outages lasting up to 10 days trees were forever coming down on the lines, you get used to it, we had a gas cooker and open fires. candles were kept in a cupboard behind the living room door along with matches, everyone knew where they were. the most annoying thing was the burgler alarm, you could only put it in a "pause" mode so it still beeped every 5 minutes or so.


Been here 15 years in the home i build. Electric out no more then 3 hours. If ice or storming bad 3 hour at most. Most times it is on within 2 hours. I do have a generator for use away from house. Never had to use it in my home. Years ago when a kid with just small line sometimes it would be out for days.


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## DW (May 10, 2002)

Throw a log in the stove, pot of stew on top, roll out my treadle… lots to do. Outside would be cold enough to keep food.


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## Robotron (Mar 25, 2012)

AmericanStand said:


> Ice houses/cellars
> 
> very well insulated structures in cool places that were filled with ice during the winter


Every ice house I’ve been in was a plain old wooden shed, no insulation. The ice was buried in sawdust. You had to dig it out. The hard part of the ice house adventure was getting the ice in. Out to the lake when frozen and saw the hunks out, sled them to the shed. Was always a nice place to hang on a hot summer day though.


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## JeepHammer (May 12, 2015)

I built my own solar PV & Thermal systems and it's decidedly low tech, simply because I didn't have the money for top end computer controlled everything.

I have clean water wells and power to pump that water.
I have big gardens and home can food.
Not because of this fear factor of an EMP or CME,
I'm well versed in the electro-magnetic link, and either EMP or CME isn't going to happen like the science fiction writers think, and the fear mongers want you to believe.

All it takes to crash the power grid is a laptop & internet connection.
MUCH bigger threat that some 'Phantom' that can put together a nuclear warhead, missile with advance guidance system, get that missile into low earth orbit, organized ground support to guide said missile, and the data to know EXACTLY where the magnetic lay lines are at any given moment since they constantly move.

Your vehicle is exposed to EM & RF signals several thousand times stronger than an EMP can produce, 24/7/365, and runs fine because those issues have been worked out already.
If you ever owned a gauss meter you would know that already.
Your alternator throws several thousand times the magnetic field an EMP would, and it's under the hood with your car wiring, there is a metal shield (car body) between an EMP & your vehicle wiring.

Not that you can talk sense to someone scared, but an EMP will only effect long runs of wire up off the earths surface.
Think power grid. 
If you have something plugged into the grid, it *Might* have issues.

Big transformers are at the biggest threat, they have direct lines running into them from those thousands of miles of utility grid wiring.
Another argument for decentralized power grid, shorter runs of wire mean less issues.

The military recommends wind & solar power, which is now affordable.
Wind has little exposure while solar has zero chance of going down/being damaged.
Current larger home size solar PV can take a lightening strike, some magnetic waves aren't going to effect it at all.

I just doubled down and ordered 4.5kWh batteries, new panels (some of mine are more than 20 years old) and building the rest of the system myself.
I'll have about a month in battery storage running the house normally, 10-20 year life span depending on usage, and the ability to recharge in 3 days of full sun.

My daily requirement are already met in about 3 hours of good sun.

Running the machine shop, I should have 3 to 5 days of storage, a month or more for just the home.
For the price of a crappy used car (about $6,000) anyone that can do basic carpentry & wiring can be off the power grid. 4.5kWh batteries are selling for $450 with a 10 year plus lifespan.
These aren't lead/acid that you can only use about 20% of the Ah capacity without damaging the battery, 90% is useable without damaging the battery.

You all do what you want, lots of threads about people dealing with 'Preps', I'm home canning with electro-magnetic induction heat now I have so much surplus in long summer days.
I get clean food that's exactly what I like & eat now...
The sun provides the fuel, no cutting trees and splitting wood.
Since I have radiant floor heat (hot liquid) solar thermal provides the heat for the home most times.
It also provides heated water, a big plus when you want to bathe!

And let's not forget the electric golf cart I use instead of a 4 wheeler, since I can weld, make 120 volt power, it even has an air compressor.
Quiet, no oil changes, no fuel, does a lot of work including mowing and doesn't tear up the ground. 

With 4.5kWh batteries for $450 that only weigh about 150 pounds my electric tractor project will probably plow the garden this spring.
No more fuel, oil changes, tuning, winter problems, just flip the switch and go,
When it's not in use it powers the house like the golf cart does.
Not one micro controller involved, nothing you can't fix on the work bench with a soldering iron.


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## secondhandacres (Nov 6, 2017)

Jeephammer. Where are your sourcing your batteries? I assume they are lifep04


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## Jake229 (Aug 6, 2019)

Excellent post! Lacking power would suck but I have amazing winter gear for bride and I. 50 below sleeping bags, good LED flashlights and headlamps. Coleman stove, and an inverter to charge cell phones and laptop. Oh yea, lock and load too. Report the outage to the power company and read a book or cuddle with the wife and the greyhounds. Power outage is an inconvenience, not the end of the world.


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## Ann-NWIowa (Sep 28, 2002)

Longest outages we've had was a week after an ice storm and 10 days after idiots shot up transfer station. Maybe longer after tornado, but since we no longer had a house I'm not sure of the timeframe! The only issues with short term outage is sump pump which is a huge issue since this house does not have basement drains so all ground water/basement water usage has to be pumped out and then heat in the winter. Enter Generac full house natural gas generator. Power goes out, wait 5 minutes and generator kicks on. 

After the ice storm the power company had to rebuild lines in town and outside of town for miles. Seldom have had an outage since. Most last only a few hours. The power company wants everyone to call in outages so they know how widespread it is. You call an automated (of course) line. As soon as they know the extent they will call you back with a message on expected restoration time.

I can't tell you what peace of mind the generator provides especially since I'm alone now. BTW I still have battery lights, flashlights, kerosene lamps, kerosene, candles, matches and kerosene heater just in case. Cooking and water heating are natural gas.


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## fordy (Sep 13, 2003)

.................The most obvious threat for those 'WHO' have prepared themselves for such events is , as mentioned previously , are the thousands of have nots who will be moving out of their Sect. 8 diggs and into the streets looking for Free stuff and retail stores which have food and NO security !
................It is at this point that that Martial Law should have been set up and the National Guard posted at major points to prevent these folks from following major highways out , into the suburbs and countryside where they will be converging upon folks , who have resources and are not willing to share with mobs demanding anything they can carry with them !
...............It is rather obvious that local law enforcement is NOT going to beable to control large , disorganized groups with a "Ugo Chavez" as their leader ! This is where it becomes important to open one's gun safe , and load all their mags and prepare themselves for the coming storm ! The Idiot Virginia Governor is going to remove every semiauto and the mags that fit them so no one can exercise their right to self defense ! This is total conjecture on my part so who knows what will actually happen . , fordy


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## claytonpiano (Feb 3, 2005)

Thank-you AT Hagan for this wonderful thread. I have loved reading the comments. 
My experience, it won't match anyone else's, but it is my take nontheless. First, we already live off-grid. After losing power for weeks after two hurricanes and an ice storm, it became evident that we needed to change our lifestyle. If the power goes off, we already live that way....well, for the most part. There are days that there simply is not enough solar to really heat our water. The solar pumps the well, but we have a simple pump on both wells and a large holding tank that gravity feeds the house. We can fill it with rain water. 

However, unless you have really lived without power for an extended period of time, you just do not realize the little things that become major things. If it was just DH and me, it would be really easy, but we have a family farm and 3 generations live in our house. Oil lamps are dangerous with little kids and it is really impossible to read. I know they did it years ago, but my eyes are getting older and I need light. We have them for backup, but we use rechargeable batteries and rechargable lights now since we have solar. If we lost the solar due to an EMP as suggested, then it would be really hard to function at night given the contrast between our current light and what we would have. You can adjust, but it would take awhile.

For the past two months we have attempted not to use any power except for milking and refrigeration (still these are solar powered and not the grid). It is easier in the winter because the wood stove is where we can cook and where we can boil water. We know how to take large pots of water to the shower and mix with enough cold to pour over us and to wash hair, but when you are doing that with this many people, well, it is major work. You might say, then I just would not bathe. True, but that is not an option either. There are just too many germs that get passed around with this many people under one roof.

We finally took the plunge and purchased a solar freezer. We live in the south. Our meat will not keep outside. Last year we tried to kill pigs when it was cold. The weather changed at the last minute and we were flipping on the power hogging refrigerator to hold the meat and got power from the grid. We did salt our hams and bacon, but that means stretching out the killing of six hogs over a period of time that really swallows up the extra time we have. Yes, we could have let them live, but then we have to feed them. We had enough from the garden and other sources to only need to feed them one bag of feed, but since we were trying to do this for free, it meant either buy feed or kill the pigs. In a scenario such as described, we would have been killing pigs for 12 days. One to kill, gut, and hang and the second to grind sausage and can it. Then repeat six times. Instead, we killed 2 or 3 each day and worked into the night processing it.

Then there is refrigeration. We are all accustomed to it. Yeti type coolers will keep our milk and other perishable items for five days (sometimes longer) with the ice bottles that we keep in our solar freezer. Most of the time the freezer would need to be filled with ice bottles for that purpose. That is what we do now. Igloo coolers and other cheaper ones just do not do the job. Others mileage may differ from ours, but we use the Yeti type for longer storage and the cheaper type for one or two days. 

Then there is the milking and the clean-up. Yes they did it years ago, but sterilizing the jars, cleaning up after making butter and cheese....well... you need a lot of hot water. When I think back about my grandmother, it really was not all that clean. Maybe that would be okay, but the grease gets everywhere without hot water. 

Honestly, it took us years to really adapt to this lifestyle. It is still difficult. It is time consuming and a lot of work. I would not trade it for anything, but seasonal eating and raising enough for your livestock takes practice, lots of practice. It also takes dirt, good dirt. Having to develop soil for a long-term scenario that you are suggesting would be a killer, literally and figuratively.


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## markt1 (Dec 15, 2013)

Over labor day at my place in West Virginia, the power went out twice in one week for about 8 hours each time. Locals say that it once went out for 2 weeks after a hurricane. If that happened in winter, the water pipes would burst. The grid here is not reliable. So we have to have some way of heating the place without electricity. Going to get a propane direct-vent wall heater for heating the place when we are visiting away for any length of time. Planning on using a wood stove for when we are home.


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## CKelly78z (Jul 16, 2017)

fordy said:


> .................The most obvious threat for those 'WHO' have prepared themselves for such events is , as mentioned previously , are the thousands of have nots who will be moving out of their Sect. 8 diggs and into the streets looking for Free stuff and retail stores which have food and NO security !


When I speak of the "Zombie Apocalypse" it is this situation I am referring to....wandering fools with their arms outstretched looking for handouts....moaning from hunger pains, that will stop at nothing to be fed.


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## JeepHammer (May 12, 2015)

CKelly78z said:


> When I speak of the "Zombie Apocalypse" it is this situation I am referring to....wandering fools with their arms outstretched looking for handouts....moaning from hunger pains, that will stop at nothing to be fed.


Alarmist scare tactics to keep you consuming...
More fiction with no science behind it.

Learn to grow a potato and quit being scared.
Hard to be scared when you are working and not reading fiction on the internet...


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

JeepHammer said:


> Hard to be scared when you are working and not reading fiction on the internet...


Or writing it.


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## CKelly78z (Jul 16, 2017)

JeepHammer said:


> Learn to grow a potato and quit being scared.
> Hard to be scared when you are working and not reading fiction on the internet...


I grow potatoes, and many other things on my 10 acre farm, cut 6 cords of wood every year, multiple building projects, and much equipment to maintain....DON'T preach to me about being scared !


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## fordy (Sep 13, 2003)

............The simple fact is , during a regional power outage , virus infestation , or large groups of disorganized people plundering those who 'Have' resources to survive such events , you either use your firearms to shoot as many thieves as necessary to cause them to under go an attitude adjustment , or be subjected to their murderous , thieving behavior ! , fordy


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## Shrek (May 1, 2002)

Our power is so dependable that one year our electric co-op actually gave out miniature working kerosene lamps with new services for 6 months until they realized the joke about being so dependable they gave out free kerosene lamps with new service hook ups had been a running joke for decades as new subscribers bought kerosene lamps at the local hardware store after their first couple day long power outages and wen through "life before REA electric.

Having grown up with our outage prone rural electric service, being given my own coal oil lamp by my parents as an apartment warming/get out of our house since we got you through college gift and getting my miniature REA commemorative lantern, in my apartment I used batteries, kerosene and a small generator on my patio as power.

After moving from apartment to the house here, I added contractor grade higher wattage power inverters and deep cycle batteries to my pick up with in line 6 cool running engine that was used in it's early design in the 1940s as a generator engine.

When our power goes out for awhile , I park my 7 battery / extra fuel capacity 40 year old farm truck by the house and use heavy gauge extention cords from the contractor inverter/ deep cycle batteries to power my small fridge, deep freezer, microwave , crockpot or electric skillet.

I use the 12 volt output from the cranking battery to power/ charge my black out 7 inch TV, power, recharge batteries for my flash lights and handheld CB for in house contact with my neighbors if our landlines are down also and run a 12 volt fan if in warm weather to keep from being too uncomfortable.

To easily crank my generator truck when I route the lines to the freezer and fridge, I also run a mechanic's remote starter /kill switch and extension low battery alarm and battery charge monitor to my on vehicle alarms in through my bedroom window with my 12 volt connection so if the batteries need to be charged, I can often crank the locked and Denver booted truck turned limited use generator from inside.

In cold weather, I used to heat with a small wood stove but now use portable propane heaters and 1 pound disposable jugs for 8 to 10 hours heat per jug.

To bath if my water heater has cooled, I heat water either in the sun in green watering cans or in a crock pot or on my propane hibachi grill on the porch that uses a 1 pound propane jug as the heaters.

My set up while Mir space station ugly has provided me with minimal civilized life for a couple days to 3 weeks when the weather shut down power feeds to the period as I waited for main power to be restored , did day chores, took my shift on armed night patrol , slept and read a few books and watched the news and DVDs as I had time to relax.


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

Ours is very reliable as long as we aren't experiencing storms.
The worst part about my specific location is I'm at the far end of their grid, so it takes longer to restore power here because they have to repair everything along the way first. 

Just a short way down the road the power comes in through a different system, so they might have power when ours is out and vice versa.


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## alleyyooper (Apr 22, 2005)

Ice storm I believe just before Christmas 2016. Power outage lasted 10 days for us and 14 for Brother in law six miles away.

I got my bigger genset out and started it plugged in the genorator power box and flipped the switch to gen power and non line power.
We heat the house with wood good thing as the furnace that was installed in the house was electric.

We were fine cooked simple meals on a camp stove. Get snow and ice to melt on the wood furnace even though the genorator powers the well. I just don't like to use well water much as the electric clock will loose 5 minutes every 20 minutes.

My brother in law had a whole house genorator put in. His little genorator he had to keep switching from the furnace to the subpump so the basement would not flood.

 Al


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## altair (Jul 23, 2011)

We had an ice storm here in 1998 and we were without power for 11 days. Some people were closer to 20. I remember melting ice to change the water in my fish tank and not bathing a while. It had its good moments too though.


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## Shrek (May 1, 2002)

Not a power grid go poof scenario but years ago we went tent camping one summer in section of the forest near a small rowboat /kayak only lake.

When we set out although dry, we weren't yet under a no burn restriction and after pitching our tents, I built a rock and stick frame mud covered canopied campfire oven enclosure.

Shortly after cooking lake caught fish and potatoes for lunch, a ranger followed the cinder and spark free smoke to our campsite and told me if we were going to stay because of the no burn order an hour or so earlier we would have to have a "cold C ration" camp.

Instead of cold can food, after dousing the campfire pit, I went back to the truck and got two gallon pickle jars I was given to take home to store macaroni and rice and a reflective mylar blanket and duct tape and made two crude stick and reflective solar box ovens to make stew from our canned goods and sun baked s'mores.

The next day, the same ranger visited our camp and laughed at how we were warming our canned goods without fire but said it was okay and even told me how to solar cook fish fillets in the jars if we wanted to fish a little also.

We tent camped there for 5 days and the ranger visited each day on his rounds and one day shared some of our solar oven baked soup , cornbread and smores for our early dinner and one day while I was hiking with the kids, he saw us and took us just a bit further and showed us their fire tower station.

For tent camping during a no burn, it was okay. Only part I didn't enjoy was camping away from the normal campground with porta potty facilities, as the rest of the group took our gear and can trash back to the parking area by the welcome building, I got to cary the camp toilet bags to the camp toilet bag collection station.


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## StrangeRoamer (Nov 7, 2012)

A.T. Hagan said:


> The power went off at your local noon. Many of you would phone your power company, some would start your generators, or open your car hood to see what was the matter.
> 
> Except that when you pick up your landline or cell phone you get crackling static, but no connection.
> 
> ...


This far north I would start worrying about an EMP type event and curse myself for not buying/installing that wood stove and stocking up on wood. 
I can keep a couple of the rooms in the interior of the house warm for a few days but then we would start getting cold. I have enough basic other supplies put away to last a couple months or so but providing heat off grid in our new place is something I need to fix yet.


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## texican (Oct 4, 2003)

Bearfootfarm said:


> I'd call the power company to report the outage, and to find out the extent.
> Most of the time they can give an estimated time of restoration.
> If it's going to be a long time, I crank the generator and run a few drop cords.
> 
> ...


Pretty much exactly what we do. Local co-op has an app that shows where the outages are. Going to be a day, fire up the genny.

We went a week w/o power few years back (transformer station blew up). Was told it could be another couple of days, and the freezers were thawing up... Finally bit the bullet and bought a big genny. Oiled it up, fueled it up, had the cords laid out. Pulled the cord three times and it cranked. Looked up the hill and saw lights on in the barn! What the.... I didn't have a cord to the barn. Yeppers, power had come back on, within seconds of me getting the genny home and working.

If the phone didn't work/no signal, I'd try the truck. Diesel, so hopefully would start. Could walk to the neighbors a mile away and see if there power was on or not. If not, are there phones working. If not, go back home, and hunker down... cause we've just had something bad happen.

After a day of no electronics (hopefully the genny still works, if an emp happens). If it doesn't, it's time to start canning the freezers. We have free natural gas, and it's emp proof...


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## texican (Oct 4, 2003)

Cabin Fever said:


> My brother-in-law, who lives in Florida, had a whole-house generator. When he had it installed, he claimed the family could survive any hurricane that Mother Nature could throw at them. Well, I believe it was Hurricane Ivan that came a callin'. Guess what the first downed palm tree fell on?


Replaced a water line going to the barn few years back. Found the time somehow and got it done, after putting it off for months... Next blankety blank week, a perfectly healthy oak tree dropped a limb big as your leg straight down like a spear, exactly in the middle of the new water line. Still hadn't gotten around to fixing it.

Thinking? That water bill must be horrendous? Water's free, coming out of the lake. Running over the spillway as we speak!


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