# The plight of black children



## poppy (Feb 21, 2008)

An astonishing number of them ( 72% ) are born to unwed mothers. Those kids start life at a great disadvantage. Native American children fare only a little better ( 66% ). At the other end of the spectrum are Asians ( 17% ) and whites ( 29% ). 

http://www.washingtonpost.com/

The problems of high crime and the number of blacks in prison will not get better until the black culture addresses this problem.


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## pancho (Oct 23, 2006)

poppy said:


> An astonishing number of them ( 72% ) are born to unwed mothers. Those kids start life at a great disadvantage. Native American children fare only a little better ( 66% ). At the other end of the spectrum are Asians ( 17% ) and whites ( 29% ).
> 
> http://www.washingtonpost.com/
> 
> The problems of high crime and the number of blacks in prison will not get better until the black culture addresses this problem.


Which isn't likely to happen as long as they can blame it on another group of people.


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## Evons hubby (Oct 3, 2005)

The last time I looked, most kids are born equal.... two hands, two feet, etc..... its what they opt to do with the resources they do have that counts....


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## rzrubek (May 13, 2004)

But a child born to a single mother starts out with much fewer resources. Blacks will always have a hard time until they stand up and start taking care of themselves and there family's


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## PrettyPaisley (May 18, 2007)

You can thank the welfare system for that. The gov't forces the men from the household by increasing the amount of money it hands the unwed mother. It doesn't take genius to figure that one out. No man, more kids, more money in your hand.


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## Evons hubby (Oct 3, 2005)

rzrubek said:


> But a child born to a single mother starts out with much fewer resources. Blacks will always have a hard time until they stand up and start taking care of themselves and there family's


Single parents have kids with no hands and feet? I think not. What "resources" exactly are lacking? If I am not mistaken our current president was raised in a single parent household.


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## ldc (Oct 11, 2006)

Here, I work in a very poor black community library. The kids are poor, dirty, hungry, and often very ill. Most live w an elderly relative who can't cope, some w their teenage mothers. (Please know a large number of white babies are also born to single mothers.) The law says I may not tell any adults w the kids, anything re these kids. Can't say I noticed illness, dyslexia, blindness, etc. It's sad. I tho"t I'd experienced mixed ethnic/racial poverty when I lived in DC, but most of it can't compare to what I've experienced here. Oh, and Coke in the baby bottles...ldc


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## rzrubek (May 13, 2004)

Yvonne's hubby said:


> Single parents have kids with no hands and feet? I think not. What "resources" exactly are lacking? *If I am not mistaken our current president was raised in a single parent household.*


Yeah, and look how he turned out!!!:teehee:


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## Evons hubby (Oct 3, 2005)

rzrubek said:


> Yeah, and look how he turned out!!!:teehee:


Well, there is that, perhaps I should have found a better example.


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## willow_girl (Dec 7, 2002)

> An astonishing number of them ( 72% ) are born to unwed mothers. Those kids start life at a great disadvantage. Native American children fare only a little better ( 66% ). At the other end of the spectrum are Asians ( 17% ) and whites ( 29% ).


And if you look at employment numbers, I suspect you will find they closely mirror those statistics. 

If a man is unlikely to be a good provider, there is a little incentive for a woman to marry him.


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## primroselane (May 10, 2002)

"In 2005, 69.5 percent of all births to non-Hispanic black
women, 63.3 percent of births of American Indian or Alaskan native woman, and 47.9
percent of births to Hispanic women occurred outside of marriage, compared with 25.4
percent for non-Hispanic white women and 16.2 percent for Asian or Pacific Islander
women"

http://www.childtrendsdatabank.org/pdf/75_PDF.pdf

There is a time for sympathy. There is a time for encouragement. There is a time for help. There is also a time for individual and social responsibility.


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## ninny (Dec 12, 2005)

willow_girl said:


> And if you look at employment numbers, I suspect you will find they closely mirror those statistics.
> 
> *If a man is unlikely to be a good provider, there is a little incentive for a woman to marry him*.



Then why would she have a child by him?

.


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## watcher (Sep 4, 2006)

Yvonne's hubby said:


> The last time I looked, most kids are born equal.... two hands, two feet, etc..... its what they opt to do with the resources they do have that counts....


Most abused kids are born with two hands, two feet, etc are you willing to say they are not at a major disadvantage in later life due to their childhood?


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## willow_girl (Dec 7, 2002)

> Then why would she have a child by him?


That is a darned good question.

I am not a very emotional person. Years ago, during my prime child-bearing years, I was able to look objectively at the situation and say, "I'm poor. I have no business bringing children into this world." And I didn't. 

I suspect most people aren't like that, though. I have seldom met a woman who didn't _want_ children, even under less-than-optimal circumstances. And so they forge ahead ... :shrug:


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## Sawmill Jim (Dec 5, 2008)

willow_girl said:


> That is a darned good question.
> 
> I am not a very emotional person. Years ago, during my prime child-bearing years, I was able to look objectively at the situation and say, "I'm poor. I have no business bringing children into this world." And I didn't.
> 
> I suspect most people aren't like that, though. I have seldom met a woman who didn't _want_ children, even under less-than-optimal circumstances. And so they forge ahead ... :shrug:


One forge :fussin: But four and more forges time for the money for the forge to be cut off :teehee::clap::clap:


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## haypoint (Oct 4, 2006)

It is all very predictable. In Michigan, Blacks make up 17% of the general population, yet are 70% of the prison population. No, it isn't because the cops pick on Blacks. Most of the felonies are committed in Black communities served by Black police.
Recent story about a young gal, early 20s, at the hospital having her 8th baby. She says grandma calls her the "breadwinner". Here is how it works. She has one child after another, no man, no support. Grandma calls Child Protective Services on her grand daughter. Of course she's not handling eight kids under 8 years in a safe way. Grandma offers to Foster Parent her grandbabies. Government gives Grandma $1200 each, every month. Grand daughter hangs out with her kids and Grandma and they squeek by on $100,000 a year. Somehow getting an education seems like a big waste of time. Duh.
They all have two hands and two legs, but what can you expect when the only male role model is the crack dealer that stops by to service mom's bedroom needs on an irregular basis.
The taxpayers are content in sending welfare checks to drug houses, because that is easier than facing the problem. The Great Society of LBJ sparked the demise of the inter city family. Solutions are difficult. So, we keep on with a failed program, creating multiple generations that have never known anyone that has held a job.
Disadvantage? Go re-watch "Boys in the Hood" and figure out where the problem is.
I know, you just think I'm picking on the disadvantaged minority.
Canada has the same skewed percentages. Their prisons hold 70% Natives, while Natives make up less than 20% of their general population. Canada has for many years offered subsidised housing, free food and other benifits like our Great Society. 
Canada spends an extra $10,000 per inmate, than the US, in an attempt to curb repeat offenders. They share the same 33% recivitisim rates as the US. Throwing money into prisons isn't a solution.


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## Oldcountryboy (Feb 23, 2008)

From my experience in life, children who grew up with 2 caring parents most likely grew up to be a caring parent theirselves. Meaning they're likely to stick around and help raise their own kids. Children who only had 1 parent at home when growing up, seem to become 1 parent only when raising their own kids. Children born to a parent or parents who run around doing drugs and alcohol, usually grow up to be the same way. 

So it seems, all children most likely will grow up to be just like their parents.


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## Callieslamb (Feb 27, 2007)

ninny said:


> Then why would she have a child by him?
> 
> .


Because a soggy potato chip is better than no potato chip in some people's minds. People desperate for love and affection do stupid things. A bad BF is better than NO BF.


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## ninny (Dec 12, 2005)

Callieslamb said:


> Because a soggy potato chip is better than no potato chip in some people's minds. People desperate for love and affection do stupid things. * A bad BF is better than NO BF*.


I think there's a multitude of women that would disagree with this statement. 

.


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## Topaz Farm (Jan 27, 2005)

haypoint said:


> <snip>
> Recent story about a young gal, early 20s, at the hospital having her 8th baby. <snip>
> 
> Grandma offers to Foster Parent her grandbabies. Government gives Grandma $1200 each, every month. <snip>


$1,200 a month x 8.... are you serious!!!??? When my DD had to go on welfare she sure didn't get that much. (it was a short term thing)

This is why they shouldn't pay for more than 2 children, one would be better.

I guess fostering children might be different than just being on welfare. When one "fosters" 2 or 3 children of family then they shouldn't be able to "foster" any children born to that Mother that come afterwards. Hope that makes sense.


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## Sawmill Jim (Dec 5, 2008)

Topaz Farm said:


> $1,200 a month x 8.... are you serious!!!??? When my DD had to go on welfare she sure didn't get that much. (it was a short term thing)
> 
> This is why they shouldn't pay for more than 2 children, one would be better.


Fifty cents for a condom better still :teehee:


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## lamoncha lover (Mar 1, 2009)

well lets see. I had to foster my grandkids prior to adopting them. 1200 a piece? HUH I think not. Considering the career I gave up, the minivan I had to buy, the cost of my groceries, clothing, and just damages to my house...I certainly have not made any money. But that was not the point anyway. The point was to put them all together in a safe stable environment. I would hate a system that would tell me I could take 3 of them but the fourth ..well..too bad for you. They try to keep kids together. Better in the home of a person they already kow and love....
In my opinion family that steps in should have many resources available as a support system. Not necessarily more financial, but for sure support options.
I don't believe its so much a race thing as a economic thing. Common sense says if you have 1 child and live in poverty you don'thave 4..or 8. Too bad so many folks lack common sense


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## Ken Scharabok (May 11, 2002)

At the local Wal-Mart I believe I am noticing more and more middle age women with mixed race young chiildren. I've wondered it this are just babysitting or the child is with them full-time.


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## springvalley (Jun 23, 2009)

EDUCATION ! EDUCATION ! EDUCATION ! And I don`t think just in school, but in family matters also, > Thanks Marc


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## Narshalla (Sep 11, 2008)

springvalley said:


> EDUCATION ! EDUCATION ! EDUCATION ! And I don`t think just in school, but in family matters also, > Thanks Marc


If you get an education, you're "acting white."


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## Topaz Farm (Jan 27, 2005)

lamoncha lover said:


> well lets see. I had to foster my grandkids prior to adopting them. 1200 a piece? HUH I think not. Considering the career I gave up, the minivan I had to buy, the cost of my groceries, clothing, and just damages to my house...I certainly have not made any money. But that was not the point anyway. The point was to put them all together in a safe stable environment. I would hate a system that would tell me I could take 3 of them but the fourth ..well..too bad for you. They try to keep kids together. Better in the home of a person they already kow and love....
> In my opinion family that steps in should have many resources available as a support system. Not necessarily more financial, but for sure support options.
> I don't believe its so much a race thing as a economic thing. Common sense says if you have 1 child and live in poverty you don'thave 4..or 8. Too bad so many folks lack common sense


Well, I was afraid that didn't come out right. If a person has 2 children and they are fostered by a grandparent then 2 years later has another, and so on and so on.

My thinking was the people that are doing this just to get the money, then maybe if they couldn't paid for 8 children they wouldn't have more than one or two.


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## Sonshine (Jul 27, 2007)

Ken Scharabok said:


> At the local Wal-Mart I believe I am noticing more and more middle age women with mixed race young chiildren. I've wondered it this are just babysitting or the child is with them full-time.


I'm soon to be 53 yrs young with a 12 DS of mixed race. He's with me fulltime, and I mean FULL TIME, since I homeschool. But he was adopted, no blood relations. His birthmom was African American, college student. Not sure about his birthdad, but it's assumed it was a White man she had been dating. She had given the name of an African American man, who agreed to be tested and was proven he was not the father.

This lady had both parents, and both her parents were professionals, college educated individuals. She made good grades in college and her 12 yr old brother was also a straight A student.

She just didn't feel like she was ready to be a mom yet. I applaud her her decision to give him up. I'm sure it was not an easy decision to make.


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## Sonshine (Jul 27, 2007)

I agree with another poster. Too often if an African American tries to get an education they are considered traitors to their race and culture. Until that mentality stops, we'll continue to see these scenarios. There are many in the African American community that are trying to encourage others to ignore the taunts of trying to be white and better themselves. Men such as Thomas Sowell, Thomas Paine and Bill Cosby. Wish more would listen to them. The government has made slaves of those on welfare. It's a trap and once they get caught in it it's hard to get out of. My Dad, when asked why he never considered living on an Indian Reservation, basically said the same is true of the Reservations. 

I just wish people would wake up and realize that the government doesn't have their best interest in mind when they come up with these programs.


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## Terri (May 10, 2002)

Several years ago I asked a friend of mine who was an unwed Black mother Why???

She replied that after you get pregnant a guy changes, and not always for the better. If you were not married then you can easily get rid of a man who might have turned into a jerk.


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## KnowOneSpecial (Sep 12, 2010)

ninny said:


> Then why would she have a child by him?
> 
> .


Because it's FUN...and one of the few things in this world the government hasn't figured out how to tax.


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## AngieM2 (May 10, 2002)

Sonshine said:


> I agree with another poster. *Too often if an African American tries to get an education they are considered traitors to their race and culture. Until that mentality stops, we'll continue to see these scenarios. There are many in the African American community that are trying to encourage others to ignore the taunts of trying to be white and better themselves. Men such as Thomas Sowell, Thomas Paine and Bill Cosby. Wish more would listen to them. The government has made slaves of those on welfare. It's a trap and once they get caught in it it's hard to get out of. * My Dad, when asked why he never considered living on an Indian Reservation, basically said the same is true of the Reservations.
> 
> I just wish people would wake up and realize that the government doesn't have their best interest in mind when they come up with these programs.



I agree that until education is valued, and educated young blacks are not called names by the others - then things will not progress well for the total group.


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## wendle (Feb 22, 2006)

rzrubek said:


> But a child born to a single mother starts out with much fewer resources. Blacks will always have a hard time until they stand up and start taking care of themselves and there family's


Not necessarily, people need to stop making excuses and be responsible for themselves. A single mother can teach their children to do well in school and be a good responsible adult. I blame it on the child's upbringing, not their color, or their lack of resources. There are so many groups now for children with poor parents. Problem is they still go home to that environment, and will likely not see it as a bad thing if this is all they know. 
I just watched the movie "Seven Alone" , about 7 kids who struggle without their parents on the wagon trail. This movie was a true story from 1840's. The family has nothing except what they can put on their wagon. The parents both died during the trip leaving the children to fend for themselves and follow the family dream. The oldest was probably 13, and the youngest was less than 6 months old. Interesting the difference in family values from then to now, though some families still retain that.


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## Guest (Nov 8, 2010)

wendle said:


> Not necessarily, people need to stop making excuses and be responsible for themselves. A single mother can teach their children to do well in school and be a good responsible adult. I blame it on the child's upbringing, not their color, or their lack of resources. There are so many groups now for children with poor parents. Problem is they still go home to that environment, and will likely not see it as a bad thing if this is all they know.


The problem with poor blacks is cultural. It's a holdover from slave days. They are raised to believe they "aren't good enough". They don't believe they can better themselves, or that they don't deserve anything better. (There are individual exceptions, in which some do pull theirselves up by the bootstraps and get out of that environment by their own efforts, and better themselves).

It will take a massive cultural overhaul to overcome that negative thinking.


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## Lilandra (Oct 21, 2004)

ladycat said:


> The problem with poor blacks is cultural. It's a holdover from slave days. They are raised to believe they "aren't good enough". They don't believe they can better themselves, or that they don't deserve anything better. (There are individual exceptions, in which some do pull theirselves up by the bootstraps and get out of that environment by their own efforts, and better themselves).
> 
> It will take a massive cultural overhaul to overcome that negative thinking.


I really don't think it is a slave thing as most black folks today don't have slave ancestry. I do see it as other posters have put it - its a culture thing. Amongst themselves, they need to correct their point of view and come to terms with it, education does not equal betraying their culture... successful black people are still black, they don't become "white" because they work hard.

blaming slave ancestry is not taking responsibility for current problems.


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## Sonshine (Jul 27, 2007)

ladycat said:


> The problem with poor blacks is cultural. It's a holdover from slave days. They are raised to believe they "aren't good enough". *They don't believe they can better themselves,* or that they don't deserve anything better. (There are individual exceptions, in which some do pull theirselves up by the bootstraps and get out of that environment by their own efforts, and better themselves).
> 
> It will take a massive cultural overhaul to overcome that negative thinking.


I don't really see this. What I see is an entitlement culture. They believe that since their ancestors were slaves that they deserve restitution. I still think the key would be in finding a way to stop the cycle, and encourage education instead of frowning on it and stating they are trying to be white.


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## Sawmill Jim (Dec 5, 2008)

KnowOneSpecial said:


> Because it's FUN...and one of the few things in this world the government hasn't figured out how to tax.


They do in Nevada


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## Guest (Nov 8, 2010)

Lilandra said:


> I really don't think it is a slave thing as most black folks today don't have slave ancestry. I do see it as other posters have put it - its a culture thing. Amongst themselves, they need to correct their point of view and come to terms with it, education does not equal betraying their culture... successful black people are still black, they don't become "white" because they work hard.
> 
> blaming slave ancestry is not taking responsibility for current problems.


I never said they blame their slave ancestry. It's the cultural attitude that has been passed down. It start with whites beating it into their skulls for a few generations that they were inferior. The poor blacks have continued passing that message of inferiority on to the next generation and the next and the next. This is not a conscious thing; it's a learned mind-set that gets passed on, just as abuse or any other learned trait get passed down in a family.

BTW, the vast majority of poor American blacks have slave ancestry. More recent immigrants from the continent of Africa do not generally call themselves African Americans. Rather, they refer to themselves according to their country of origin: Nigerian-American, Kenyan-American, etc.


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## Guest (Nov 8, 2010)

Sonshine said:


> I don't really see this. What I see is an entitlement culture. They believe that since their ancestors were slaves that they deserve restitution. I still think the key would be in finding a way to stop the cycle, and encourage education instead of frowning on it and stating they are trying to be white.


There is definitely an entitlement mentality, though I see that among whites as well.

But what I posted above is what has been explained to and discussed with me by black people with whom I've been close enough to talk about such things. After it was explained to me, it made a lot of things that puzzled me fall into place and start making sense.


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## suzfromWi (Jun 1, 2002)

I know two different young white women that have had a baby without a permanent man in their lives. They live at home with their parents, and have boyfriends off and on. Why on earth in this day and age, would a girl want to get pregnant? No they are not on welfare. Both girls work...This means that birth control isn't always the answer because some don't use it. Maybe if it was handed out like candy, more girls would use it...Free BC is better then paying welfare money. Also in the Gettos, I think for some its easier to live on welfare, then to try to get an education or find work that pays enough...Its an ugly circle thats hard to break.....


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## willow_girl (Dec 7, 2002)

Suz, 

I saw a recent study that indicated women in America experience more unintended/unwanted pregnancies than do women in most other First World nations in part because of differences in the way birth control is used.

Women in countries with universal health care often opt for long-term implants or IUDs with a very, very low fail rate (in part because the users don't have to remember to take a pill, etc.). But these devices have a high up-front cost, so the uninsured working poor here in America generally can't afford them, and instead use less reliable devices like the daily pill or condoms, and have more BC failures as a result. 

Made sense to me. :shrug:


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## Sonshine (Jul 27, 2007)

ladycat said:


> There is definitely an entitlement mentality, though I see that among whites as well.
> 
> But what I posted above is what has been explained to and discussed with me by black people with whom I've been close enough to talk about such things. After it was explained to me, it made a lot of things that puzzled me fall into place and start making sense.


I'm not sure if the culture is different where you are than where I grew up in Illinois, but I lived, went to school and to church in the black community. I had no white friends, only blacks. I have not seen what you talk about, but have seen the entitlement mentality. It is more of a mind set that since slavery existed, then their must be restitution. Many I knew and know believe that it's their right because of the way they (meaning their ancestors) were treated. I agree that their race has and in some cases still are being treated terribly, but in order to break the cycle they need to want to. The Government makes it too easy to continue the cycle.

I put more blame on the entitlement programs the government has put in place than the people. As I stated earlier, it's a trap that is hard to be free of.


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## Sonshine (Jul 27, 2007)

WG, in third world countries they don't get more money for having more babies either. I think that's the biggest problem. If they get married, they lose that money.


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## wendle (Feb 22, 2006)

I wonder what countries are considered 1st world that have universal medical care. What sort of lifestyles and history do they have? Compare those to countries colored people who are behind originated from. Does their heritage encourage them to live a completely different lifestyle, be less responsible for their actions? less intelligence to make good life choices? I look at all the problems in Africa, and wonder about that. 
I also wonder if free birth control will really stop the career moms from living off the system. I know in US we do have programs where people can get free birth control, and it isn't hard to do.


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## fordy (Sep 13, 2003)

.............The social problems associated with fatherless black children are replicated in Haiti , and all over the Africian landscape . The best birth control is a pair of tightly closed knees and an attitude too only birth children that you can afford . Most fatherless children aren't the result of artificial insemination so I place most , if , not all , of the blame , on the mothers . , fordy:shrug:


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## watcher (Sep 4, 2006)

willow_girl said:


> That is a darned good question.
> 
> I am not a very emotional person. Years ago, during my prime child-bearing years, I was able to look objectively at the situation and say, "I'm poor. I have no business bringing children into this world." And I didn't.
> 
> I suspect most people aren't like that, though. I have seldom met a woman who didn't _want_ children, even under less-than-optimal circumstances. And so they forge ahead ... :shrug:


Here's one answer which a lot of people don't want to hear. The women are looking for someone to love and to be loved by. They think a child will fill that need.


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## watcher (Sep 4, 2006)

ladycat said:


> The problem with poor blacks is cultural. It's a holdover from slave days. They are raised to believe they "aren't good enough". They don't believe they can better themselves, or that they don't deserve anything better. (There are individual exceptions, in which some do pull theirselves up by the bootstraps and get out of that environment by their own efforts, and better themselves).
> 
> It will take a massive cultural overhaul to overcome that negative thinking.


Why shouldn't they believe that? They are told it day after day after day and have been for the last 60+ years. They are told they aren't good enough to make it in school without "help" from the government. They aren't good enough to get a job without "help" from the government. They aren't good enough to own a business without "help" from the government. Heck they can't even feed themselves without "help" from the government.

They hear this from the dems who push programs to "help" them. They hear it from the likes of Jessie Jackson, Sharpton, Wright and every other race pimp who uses them to make money for themselves.

You repeatedly tell a child he's stupid he's going to act stupid no matter how smart he really is.


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## hobbyfarmer (Oct 10, 2007)

I think there is certainly a sense of entitlement among the black community. I'm reading a book (for a Human Behavior class) at the moment called "Why Are All the Black Kids Sitting Together in the Cafeteria?". This was written by a black woman; the President of Spelman College. (Beverly Tatum, Ph.D.) and it's unbelievable how this well educated black woman blames white people for the problems of the black culture. Not only does this author blame white people for the problems in the black community, she says it's not possible for blacks to be racist. She gives her own culture basically a total absolution of any and all bad behavior. And this is someone who is an educator. From the book:

"People of color are not racist because they do not systematically benefit from racism. And equally important, there is no systematic cultural and institutional support or sanction for the racial bigotry of people of color. In my view, reserving the term _racist_ only for behaviors committed by Whites in the context of a White-dominated society is a way of acknowledging the ever-present power differential afforded Whites by the culture and institutions that make up the system of advantage and continue to reinforce notions of White superiority." (pg 10)

"It is important to acknowledge that while all whites benefit from racism, they do not all benefit equally. Other factors, such as socioeconomic status, gender, age, religious affiliation, sexual orientation, mental and physical ability, also play a role in our access to social influence and power. A White woman on welfare is not privileged to the same extent as a wealthy White heterosexual man. In her case, the systematic disadvantages of sexism and classism intersect with her White privilege, but it is still there." (pg. 12)


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## WindowOrMirror (Jan 10, 2005)

willow_girl said:


> ..If a man is unlikely to be a good provider, there is a little incentive for a woman to marry him.


I suspect that the problem would be drastically reduced if she also applied this same criteria to sleeping with him.


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## rzrubek (May 13, 2004)

hobbyfarmer said:


> I think there is certainly a sense of entitlement among the black community. I'm reading a book (for a Human Behavior class) at the moment called "Why Are All the Black Kids Sitting Together in the Cafeteria?". This was written by a black woman; the President of Spelman College. (Beverly Tatum, Ph.D.) and it's unbelievable how this well educated black woman blames white people for the problems of the black culture. Not only does this author blame white people for the problems in the black community, she says it's not possible for blacks to be racist. She gives her own culture basically a total absolution of any and all bad behavior. And this is someone who is an educator. From the book:
> 
> "People of color are not racist because they do not systematically benefit from racism. And equally important, there is no systematic cultural and institutional support or sanction for the racial bigotry of people of color. In my view, reserving the term _racist_ only for behaviors committed by Whites in the context of a White-dominated society is a way of acknowledging the ever-present power differential afforded Whites by the culture and institutions that make up the system of advantage and continue to reinforce notions of White superiority." (pg 10)
> 
> "It is important to acknowledge that while all whites benefit from racism, they do not all benefit equally. Other factors, such as socioeconomic status, gender, age, religious affiliation, sexual orientation, mental and physical ability, also play a role in our access to social influence and power. A White woman on welfare is not privileged to the same extent as a wealthy White heterosexual man. In her case, the systematic disadvantages of sexism and classism intersect with her White privilege, but it is still there." (pg. 12)


And the cycle continues....


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## wendle (Feb 22, 2006)

fordy said:


> .............The social problems associated with fatherless black children are replicated in Haiti , and all over the Africian landscape . The best birth control is a pair of tightly closed knees and an attitude too only birth children that you can afford . Most fatherless children aren't the result of artificial insemination so I place most , if , not all , of the blame , on the mothers . , fordy:shrug:


When the man takes part in producing children he is oblivious to any responsibility or consequences with his offspring?
He is not worried about how his children grow up, or whether they will be successful in life? The burden is on the mother for the well being of the children and their upbringing? 
This seems more like what you would expect of a Ram or Bull than a civilized person.


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## hobbyfarmer (Oct 10, 2007)

rzrubek said:


> And the cycle continues....



It does. With so many black entertainers, educators, and well, I'm not sure what you would call Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton, but with so many people blaming others for the lack of responsibility exhibited by black fathers and young men and women of color, who would expect these guys to step up and take the bull by the horns? Why would they if they are raised to believe their irresponsibility is a product of their skin color, and not anything they can or should change?


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## Guest (Nov 8, 2010)

watcher said:


> Why shouldn't they believe that? They are told it day after day after day and have been for the last 60+ years. They are told they aren't good enough to make it in school without "help" from the government. They aren't good enough to get a job without "help" from the government. They aren't good enough to own a business without "help" from the government. Heck they can't even feed themselves without "help" from the government.
> 
> They hear this from the dems who push programs to "help" them. They hear it from the likes of Jessie Jackson, Sharpton, Wright and every other race pimp who uses them to make money for themselves.
> 
> You repeatedly tell a child he's stupid he's going to act stupid no matter how smart he really is.


And there ya have it!


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## watcher (Sep 4, 2006)

hobbyfarmer said:


> I think there is certainly a sense of entitlement among the black community. I'm reading a book (for a Human Behavior class) at the moment called "Why Are All the Black Kids Sitting Together in the Cafeteria?". This was written by a black woman; the President of Spelman College. (Beverly Tatum, Ph.D.) and it's unbelievable how this well educated black woman blames white people for the problems of the black culture. Not only does this author blame white people for the problems in the black community, she says it's not possible for blacks to be racist. She gives her own culture basically a total absolution of any and all bad behavior. And this is someone who is an educator. From the book:
> 
> "People of color are not racist because they do not systematically benefit from racism. And equally important, there is no systematic cultural and institutional support or sanction for the racial bigotry of people of color. In my view, reserving the term _racist_ only for behaviors committed by Whites in the context of a White-dominated society is a way of acknowledging the ever-present power differential afforded Whites by the culture and institutions that make up the system of advantage and continue to reinforce notions of White superiority." (pg 10)
> 
> "It is important to acknowledge that while all whites benefit from racism, they do not all benefit equally. Other factors, such as socioeconomic status, gender, age, religious affiliation, sexual orientation, mental and physical ability, also play a role in our access to social influence and power. A White woman on welfare is not privileged to the same extent as a wealthy White heterosexual man. In her case, the systematic disadvantages of sexism and classism intersect with her White privilege, but it is still there." (pg. 12)


That woman needs to hang out with more of her own people. I've seen "colorism" in the "black" community that would make a Klansman look like a member of the rainbow community. I have a black friend who would not go into a place with me because its where the "darks" hung out. Being confused he explained to me about how blacks with lighter skin tones didn't mix with those with really dark skin. I learned quite a bit that day.


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## Windy in Kansas (Jun 16, 2002)

Yvonne's hubby said:


> The last time I looked, most kids are born equal.... two hands, two feet, etc..... its what they opt to do with the resources they do have that counts....


Scientific studies have determined that not all children are born with equal brain power. You did say most kids however. Prenatal nutrition plays somewhat of a roll in a baby's eventual abilities and brain power. 

I think it is reasonable to say that indeed the resources available to a child determines how well they do in school, etc. 

Parents reading to a child is but one resource. This link provides many articles about reading to children. http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2010/02/100216142334.htm

If a single mother has several children will she take the time to read to each child or even all of them at the same time. More children and the workload to maintain a home increases decreasing the time for educational activities. 

It is just my opinion and observation that reading to children and helping them to learn to read well while young is a great key to their education and success in life.


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## lilmizlayla (Aug 28, 2008)

watcher said:


> That woman needs to hang out with more of her own people. I've seen "colorism" in the "black" community that would make a Klansman look like a member of the rainbow community. I have a black friend who would not go into a place with me because its where the "darks" hung out. Being confused he explained to me about how blacks with lighter skin tones didn't mix with those with really dark skin. I learned quite a bit that day.


you must live in the south


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## Ken Scharabok (May 11, 2002)

First of all the U.S. didn't produce the slaves from Africa. It was tribal chiefs and Arabs who brought them to the Atlantic coast to be sold. They were merely bought by slaves traders.

As I recall the importation of slaves into the U.S. was prohibited in the early 1800s. Not slavery, but the legal importation. After that they had to be either smuggled in or born in the U.S. At the time of the Civil War slaves were basically expensive and unprofitable.

The U.S. is not the only one who had colonies in the Caribbean. Far as I know only the Virgin Islands. The other countries were french or spanish. Take Haiti, they won their independence from France and it has been downhill since then. While a thriving economy under the French, it is now a basket case for which I don't think there are any long-term solutions. Next door is the Dominican Republic, under Spanish-influence, and thriving.

Also as I recall, when a black free man grew properous, they often owned slaves.

I may not have this correct, but I don't think I am far off:

A 16-year old girl from a low income family gets disgusted with life at home so they intentionally get pregnant. They then go to the Social Services and are provide either a rent-free or low payment apartment. They receive free pre-natal care and free birthing. They likely also receive welfare, food stamps and WIC. They kids may qualify for free daycare and, once in school, free lunches.

Some programs, such as food stamps, may have a maximum amount, but largely the government support increases with the number of children she has.

Heck, why work when they can live off the taxpayer's dime.


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## ChristyACB (Apr 10, 2008)

willow_girl said:


> Suz,
> 
> I saw a recent study that indicated women in America experience more unintended/unwanted pregnancies than do women in most other First World nations in part because of differences in the way birth control is used.
> 
> ...


Don't know what's going on where you live. Medicaid pays for long term birth control including IUDs and implants. The free birth control clinic also offers it here...for $8.


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## Trixie (Aug 25, 2006)

lilmizlayla said:


> you must live in the south


I must have missed something. Not sure what being in the south has to do with prejudices within the black race.

Two young women (unmarried) I know, and at just about the same time, thought they were pregnant. Turns out they were not - but the first question I asked was had they told the father.

Both answered me exactly the same, no he wouldn't make a good daddy.
I asked them both, then why did they sleep with him? A man who is not man enough to be a father, isn't man enough to get me. 

These were two educated, working, nice looking, intelligent (almost) young women. 

I'm not sure of the law, but I know far too many divorced mothers who don't work, live in subsidized housing, food stamps, etc., and have live in boyfriends. Some have had several different ones in the years I have known them. Not only do I resent providing housing food, etc. for some women's able bodied boyfriend, but I don't like the fact that these children are being exposed to this. Lots of negatives in that.

I don't know if it is welfare or just the breakdown of society. It seems a lot of people simply do not have any notion of personal responsibility. The media, the music, the movies, has all convinced people they can have it all with no consequences - that someone else will pick up the tab. They don't realize that the tab that is being paid for them is holding them back from truly achieving the things they could.


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## willow_girl (Dec 7, 2002)

> I suspect that the problem would be drastically reduced if she also applied this same criteria to sleeping with him.


I have noticed very few people who voluntarily choose to be celibate. 

Not saying it wouldn't be to their economic advantage -- just seems our species isn't wired up that way. :shrug:

Along the same lines, I've probably slept with a dozen or more men who inquired about birth control only AFTER the act! Some were quite wealthy and would have been on the hook for thousands of dollars of child support had conception occurred. One would think they would have been a little more cautious about spreading their seed, but ... :umno:


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## Ken Scharabok (May 11, 2002)

About 17 years ago I had a discussion with a young black women in the office. She came in under a management intern-type program with a BA and was working on her MBA through a correspondence course at Michigan State Univ.

She was single and I asked her about any marriage plans. She said she had to look at it realistically - she had a very small pool to draw from as she wanted to marry within her race.

Either they were unemployed, gang bangers, have been, are now, or will be in prison.

She said college educated black men go mostly for white trophy brides.

This article implies part of it may be due to childhood malnurishment:

http://www.dailyfinance.com/story/food-insecurity-in-america/19703458/


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## Trixie (Aug 25, 2006)

<<<<I have noticed very few people who voluntarily choose to be celibate.>>>

The word 'chooses' is the operative word. If you choose it, then you should know and pay the consequences - whatever they may be.

They may not be 'wired that way', but again, that's their choice. If my husband didn't sire their children, he shouldn't have to support them.

I think men and women should think about birth control before they commit the act that produces children. Neither one more than the other. 

Now I know it isn't going to go down well with some people, but I think women should be concerned enough about themselves to not let it happen. When you have sex, there is always the chance of creating a child. That man can walk away, sometiimes not even knowing he has created a child - probably not caring - but the woman is pregnant. She pays the heaviest price. Why isn't someone telling young women that?

Not a matter of whose fault, who is responsible - but as a matter of caring for one's self.


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## haypoint (Oct 4, 2006)

Way back when folks were expected to pay their own way, women didn't often sleep with men that couldn't/wouldn't support their family. Starving children served as examples of what happened when you broke the law of nature.
There is no incentive to use birth control. No reason to pick a mate that'll be there, hold a job and be a role model.
If you sleep with a guy before you know his morale standards, you pay the price. That was once known as courtship. Hard to do between the time the bar closes and the sun comes up.


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## Trixie (Aug 25, 2006)

haypoint said:


> Way back when folks were expected to pay their own way, women didn't often sleep with men that couldn't/wouldn't support their family. Starving children served as examples of what happened when you broke the law of nature.
> There is no incentive to use birth control. No reason to pick a mate that'll be there, hold a job and be a role model.
> If you sleep with a guy before you know his morale standards, you pay the price. That was once known as courtship. Hard to do between the time the bar closes and the sun comes up.



Wow!!! I agree.


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## Guest (Nov 9, 2010)

I think this video was posted somewhere else on the forum the other day. I bookmarked it and was finally able to download and watch it tonight.

This is mostly black people talking, and what I said about them getting beat down to not succeed is backed up on this video.

(I'm not posting it because of the KKK part. I'm posting it to show the parts where black people back up what I said).

[youtube]nRM00LPWVLE[/youtube]


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## JuliaAnn (Dec 7, 2004)

You don't have to go as far back as slavery....you only have to go back as far as the time when black activists and politicians discovered what a cash cow their 'brothers' were. We have the older civil rights era black activists like Jesse Jackson etc. who still insist that blacks have to have all manner of government intervention in order to survive, while he profits handsomly from speaking engagments and profits to his various organizations. Keep telling other blacks how hard their lives are and how evil and greedy whites are, keep stirring that racial hatred pot and the money keeps rolling in to support his 'causes'. 

No wonder they call blacks who reject this kind of mind control 'runaway slaves'.

And there is a younger generation of racist black activists, like the ever present Quanell X. Yep, he's a carbon copy of every other Malcolm X wannabe we've seen.


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## haypoint (Oct 4, 2006)

ladycat said:


> I think this video was posted somewhere else on the forum the other day. I bookmarked it and was finally able to download and watch it tonight.
> 
> This is mostly black people talking, and what I said about them getting beat down to not succeed is backed up on this video.
> 
> ...


Interesting slice of history of the of the Democratic Party, but I donât see the connection to the evils of the KKK, Blacks distain for education and the jump from 20% illegitimacy rate to nearly 80% in 45 years.

Rather than review the Democratic Party, perhaps we should review governmentâs role in modifying the concept of family in the Black community through baby making bonuses. If you want your checks cut off, get a man to share your address for awhile. Everyone on the dole knows that. How can you expect the results to be different?


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## willow_girl (Dec 7, 2002)

> The word 'chooses' is the operative word. If you choose it, then you should know and pay the consequences - whatever they may be.
> 
> They may not be 'wired that way', but again, that's their choice. If my husband didn't sire their children, he shouldn't have to support them.
> 
> ...


I'm not talking about the way people SHOULD act, though, but about the way they actually DO. 

I agree that if the consequences were harsher, it might alter some people's behavior, but then again, maybe not. In the past, when we didn't dole out public dollars to incompetent parents, we still had homes for wayward girls, orphanages and street urchins. 

I think this problem is as old as the species, and probably won't be going away anytime soon.


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## Trixie (Aug 25, 2006)

willow_girl said:


> I'm not talking about the way people SHOULD act, though, but about the way they actually DO.
> 
> I agree that if the consequences were harsher, it might alter some people's behavior, but then again, maybe not. In the past, when we didn't dole out public dollars to incompetent parents, we still had homes for wayward girls, orphanages and street urchins.
> 
> I think this problem is as old as the species, and probably won't be going away anytime soon.


Yes, we do have to face things as they are - not as they were, or as we wish them to be. Truly, they have a right to make those choices, either way. All I am trying to say is they need to be responsible for whatever the outcome of their choices - that goes for anyone, any situation.

Yes, we had unwed mothers, orphanages, etc., but we will have to be honest and admit that it is far more prevalent today than it was then. 


There is a tendency by media and others to pretend that the olden days were no different - it was just hidden. In my experience, that was not true, and I don't believe it was in most instances. Was it better? In some instances, yes, in some no.

My daughter came home from college a few years ago and hugged me with tears in her eyes and told me how sorry she was that I didn't get to go to college because there were no universities or colleges for women in Texas, other than a few 'women's colleges'. Now she wasn't a child, and she is intelligent and she thinks for herself - but she believed this total untruth.

I had to point out all the women in her life, older than me, who were professional women who had gone to other than 'women's colleges, and explained it was lack of money and the necessity for me to be self supporting that sent me to business school rather than college.

Also, I saw a sociologist who wrote a book about birth control. She was bemoaning repressive '50's and she made the statement, 'most women of the 50's got pregnant by the first male she had sex with.' That's possibly true, she just didn't elaborate on how many of those males were husbands. Sometimes statements need to be picked apart rather than just accepted.

One thing I will admit, people are getting married at a much later time in their lives. I'm not sure how we '50's girls would have fared had we waited until we were in our late 20's or 30's to be married, especially, if we had an established career. Also, if all the literature, movies, media, the entire society telling us it was OK. It would have been pretty near impossible, I'll admit. Personally, I would not want to be a teenager today, nor a young single - man or woman. I don't know the rules - if there are any.

I do like the 'nearer equality' in the workplace, that would have been nice during my early work years.

But no matter what anyone says, there are consequences, not just to the ones involved, but society as well. That does bother me.


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## fordy (Sep 13, 2003)

..................The fact is , is that , All our citizens need too find a vocation\profession in our society because economically we are our brothers keeper ! An unsatisified , Unemployed , frustrated , UNeducated person in our materialistic society can cause far more problems than an EMployed , partially happy individual . We , will deal with that person , either thru helping him become gainfully employed , or sending him too prision for the rest of his natural life ! Judging from the current level of imprisioned black males I'd say we need too re examine our attitude and our values as a free society , because , WE can , DO better . , fordy


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## Guest (Nov 9, 2010)

haypoint said:


> I donât see the connection to the evils of the KKK, Blacks distain for education and the jump from 20% illegitimacy rate to nearly 80% in 45 years.


As I said, I wasn't posting about the KKK.

Don't you get it about the "disdain for education"??? A black from the slums who wants to better himself is considered "uppity" by his peers. The prevailing (though subconcious) mentality is that they aren't supposed to be good enough to do that. 

Whites started it, and now blacks are perpetuating it on their own.

Black leaders are beginning to speak up to try to change this cycle, but it's going to take more than a generation.



willow_girl said:


> I think this problem is as old as the species, and probably won't be going away anytime soon.


I think you're right!


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## haypoint (Oct 4, 2006)

fordy said:


> ..................The fact is , is that , All our citizens need too find a vocation\profession in our society because economically we are our brothers keeper ! An unsatisified , Unemployed , frustrated , UNeducated person in our materialistic society can cause far more problems than an EMployed , partially happy individual . We , will deal with that person , either thru helping him become gainfully employed , or sending him too prision for the rest of his natural life ! Judging from the current level of imprisioned black males I'd say we need too re examine our attitude and our values as a free society , because , WE can , DO better . , fordy


Out of all the ethnic groups to hit our shores over the past couple hundred years, one group stands out as being dependent. Why? Donât throw up that Slavery Shield. There were slaves of many different ethnic groups that crawled out of slavery and became, for the most part, independent and productive citizens.
You cannot educate a person that sees no purpose in education. Affirmative actions that opened doors for all minorities, often placing them far above their education, has failed to work in the Black communities.
You cannot employ a person that does not value an earned income. It will always fail.
Clearly, Black males fill a disproportionate number of prison cells. But it isnât because Society fails to examine our attitudes.
In the past forty years of enlightenment, this society, through our government, has pulled the poor families in this country into the mainstream. They have been able to live in clean, new, modern homes and apartments. They have been able to shop for food and clothing right along with the rest of society. They have access to modern utilities and those bills are paid. We have even been willing to educate the empoveroushed minorities in schools that are supported by others, while sending our children into schools that those communities refuse to properly fund through adequate milage approvals.
They have been placed at the tops of educational opportunities at every level. Their employment opportunities and advancements have been on the fast track for forty years.
Yet, as a society, they have run back into the jungle of poverty. If we offer them little chance to fail, and they increasingly fail, is it us that need to do better.
When we turn on the light of opportunity and they all go running into the dark cracks of dysfunction, should we be shopping for more bulbs?
Is a forty year trial long enough to know that this plan isnât working? Should we wait until the single parent births move to 80%, high school dropout rates surpass 80%, prison black/white ratios exceed 4 to 1? 
This society, perhaps to sooth our conscience over slavery, has attempted to place our societal standards on an ethnic group that has shown little interest in them. Yet we persist. We persist even to their detriment. 
Perhaps an examination into the cultural background of each race would provide some answers. Look at the African countries where the bodies of their slain countrymen have floated down the rivers for thousands of years. Where admission or knowledge about AIDS is superseded by witch doctors.
If âHelpâ just makes things worse, should we continue or increase our âhelpâ?
Blaming ourselves for the criminal behavior of others isnât productive? Supporting the bad decisions of others doesnât reduce those bad decisions. We can see what our misplaced charity has done.


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## fordy (Sep 13, 2003)

haypoint said:


> Out of all the ethnic groups to hit our shores over the past couple hundred years, one group stands out as being dependent. Why? Donât throw up that Slavery Shield. There were slaves of many different ethnic groups that crawled out of slavery and became, for the most part, independent and productive citizens.
> You cannot educate a person that sees no purpose in education. Affirmative actions that opened doors for all minorities, often placing them far above their education, has failed to work in the Black communities.
> You cannot employ a person that does not value an earned income. It will always fail.
> Clearly, Black males fill a disproportionate number of prison cells. But it isnât because Society fails to examine our attitudes.
> ...


..................I don't disagree , and I don't have the answers , it just seems that , for some there maybe another answer ! , fordy


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## Terri (May 10, 2002)

haypoint said:


> Out of all the ethnic groups to hit our shores over the past couple hundred years, one group stands out as being dependent. Why? Don&#8217;t throw up that Slavery Shield.


No, *DO* throw up the slavery shield.

My Grandfather was a slave, of a sort. He sold himself for passage to the new world. 

I do not know how long he was a bond servant and I do not know the details: I just know that he was bound to a dairy farmer for a set time. I suppose that as a foreigner that did not yet have citizenship that he would have been deported if he had broken his bond? And, he came to this country because other wise he would have been sent to fight in the Crimean war. 

TRUST me, my grandfather set his mark on his descendants! Though not necessarily in a bad way. He did, however, strongly influence his offspring.

The difference is, you could not tell by looking at my grandfather what his background was. His children's generation had a bit of an attitude, but, they seem to have left it behind as they grew up. I can still see it sometimes, and I have heard the family stories. They used to have a bit of an attitude, and on occasion they still do. Blacks did NOT have that advantage!

Did I mention that their appearance is caucasion? They were ABLE to get the good jobs, and they were the children of a very ambitious man. They have pretty much left behind the attitude .... unless you use a racial slur..:run:

The older generation DOES mark the younger generation, but, I am ALSo descended from grandpa. So, while I agree that slavery can mark the descendants, I have seen it in my own family, my question to impoverished Blacks would be "It is not fair. You got a raw deal. Now, WHAT ARE YOU GOING TO DO ABOUT IT?"[strongbad:drillsgt: My family is ornery, in a quiet way.


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## farmergirl (Aug 2, 2005)

ChristyACB said:


> Don't know what's going on where you live. Medicaid pays for long term birth control including IUDs and implants. The free birth control clinic also offers it here...for $8.


I have never looked into the costs for implants and IUD's but I do know that Planned Parenthood will provide BC pills on a sliding cost scale, including free for people who can't pay anything.

But BC is likely to fail when the desire to prevent pregnancies is lacking.

As a woman, I can't fathom the appeal of getting knocked up by a guy who is unlikely to be able to support his own offspring. That's just counter to survival instincts and shows a total lack of self respect.


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## Chris in PA (May 13, 2002)

Consider that ... a young male child has not male role model at home. He searches for one and seeks out a gang. They are "cool" and being in prison is considered bravery or what ever. So, he joins the gang - even at an early age. He receives encouragement in "other activities" instead of in education. He is at a troublesome age so Mom can be happy he is not around to trouble her. IF she doesn't want him in the gang there is little she can do as the pull is so strong. Many women cry over this. Back to the gang....crime in encouraged - drug runnings, mugger, whatever. Hence, the great number of black criminals. Until male members of the black community accept responsibility for the actions of men, either themselves or others, there will be no more improvement. Even Bill Cosby recognized it and spoke of it strongly....and was ridiculed heavily for it. 
"


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## haypoint (Oct 4, 2006)

Chris in PA said:


> Consider that ... a young male child has not male role model at home. He searches for one and seeks out a gang. They are "cool" and being in prison is considered bravery or what ever. So, he joins the gang - even at an early age. He receives encouragement in "other activities" instead of in education. He is at a troublesome age so Mom can be happy he is not around to trouble her. IF she doesn't want him in the gang there is little she can do as the pull is so strong. Many women cry over this. Back to the gang....crime in encouraged - drug runnings, mugger, whatever. Hence, the great number of black criminals. Until male members of the black community accept responsibility for the actions of men, either themselves or others, there will be no more improvement. Even Bill Cosby recognized it and spoke of it strongly....and was ridiculed heavily for it.
> "


This problem is only marginally controlled by Black men stepping up to be real fathers instead of just sperm donors. When the heads of most Black families, women, stop engaging in sexual intercourse with unemployable men, the problem starts to mend in two ways. More Black babies will be born into intact families and ânormalâ role models have a chance to influence normal behavior. Secondly, and just as important, setting a standard or criteria of education, motivation, employability, non-violence as a pre-requirement for intercourse, creates a motivation not found in the current failed system.

This isnât new. We saw it growing up. If you couldnât take a girl on a date, you stayed home. To go on a date required money, often times a car, too. This required a job. Young women, with a mature eye on their future, knowing that their lifestyle was directly impacted by the potential pay scale of their mate directed their attention to those select few. Therefore, being on an advance career path enhanced your chances of getting a date. This created motivation on the most basic level.

This motivational tool is shattered when rich suburban Daddy provides a financial safety net to his careless daughter. Same thing in the inner city, just the provider is the government.

Going to prison has the same negative connotation in the Black community as joining the Military has in other communities, none. Just a place to hang out, Mom sends money and you get to hang out in the visiting room with the family on Holidays. âOh, by the way, I was talkinâ to cousin Booker in the weight room last week, he says to tell you all âHey.ââ


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## Narshalla (Sep 11, 2008)

Terri said:


> No, *DO* throw up the slavery shield.
> 
> My Grandfather was a slave, of a sort. He sold himself for passage to the new world.
> 
> ...


Okay, I'll give you that. But the living grandchildren of people who were old enough to remember being slaves are few and far between. Most of the people alive today assume that they have a slave ancestry based on skin color alone, but cannot actually point to an ancestor that _was_ a slave. Also, many of the people who assume that their ancestors were slaves in America actually have ancestors that came to America _after_ the Civil War, and thus do not.

What I really wonder about, though, is the fact that _before_ Lyndon Johnson's "Great Society," black unemployment was right in line with all of the groups, adult illiteracy was less than 10%, children born to unwed mothers made up only 1/5 of the births, eighth grade graduation rates were above 80% (and that was plenty of education to get a _good_ job back then,) and highschool graduation rates were over 60%.

Before the Great Society -- Welfare and all its offshoots -- society basically told the descendants of slaves, you're on your own, if you are going to make it, _you_ have to do it. _And they did._

Now, however, they've been told for two generations or more that they _aren't_ good enough, that they _can't_ do it on their own, that it is _someone else's_ job to take care of them, and that they are _owed_ this.

This isn't because of _slavery_, it's because of _Welfare_.

Some people think that it is skin color that marks the descendants of slaves, and that 'people' treat blacks different because 'people' associate that skin color with slavery and look down on them because of it.

If this were so, then I guess that the last forty years of Equal Rights didn't work, and that all the teaching we've had, all the effort that the media goes through to portray different skin colors the same, all of that was wasted.

In reality, though, the vast overwhelming majority of people in the US today are more likely to judge you (generic you, not anyone in specific,) harshly based on your accent than on your skin color, and your actions have a greater impact on how you are perceived than your pigment.


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## Sonshine (Jul 27, 2007)

Narshalla said:


> Okay, I'll give you that. But the living grandchildren of people who were old enough to remember being slaves are few and far between. Most of the people alive today assume that they have a slave ancestry based on skin color alone, but cannot actually point to an ancestor that _was_ a slave. Also, many of the people who assume that their ancestors were slaves in America actually have ancestors that came to America _after_ the Civil War, and thus do not.
> 
> What I really wonder about, though, is the fact that _before_ Lyndon Johnson's "Great Society," black unemployment was right in line with all of the groups, adult illiteracy was less than 10%, children born to unwed mothers made up only 1/5 of the births, eighth grade graduation rates were above 80% (and that was plenty of education to get a _good_ job back then,) and highschool graduation rates were over 60%.
> 
> ...


DING DING DING. We have a winner!


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## Ken Scharabok (May 11, 2002)

Rather hard to trace your ancestery when you can only do it on your mother's side.


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## Laura Zone 5 (Jan 13, 2010)

poppy said:


> An astonishing number of them ( 72% ) are born to unwed mothers. Those kids start life at a great disadvantage. Native American children fare only a little better ( 66% ). At the other end of the spectrum are Asians ( 17% ) and whites ( 29% ).
> 
> http://www.washingtonpost.com/
> 
> The problems of high crime and the number of blacks in prison will not get better until the black culture addresses this problem.



I wonder......
What were the stats in 1950?


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## Evons hubby (Oct 3, 2005)

After reading through this thread, and the answers to my previous post in it.....

I would like yall to meet the man I called "daddy" for a good many years. He passed away a few years ago, but was an inspiration to me, and taught me a lot about life during our 30 year or so friendship. 










Daddy Nate was born in a time period when it wasnt very popular to be born black... in the south or the north. When he was 13 years old he packed his spare shirt, a few biscuits leftover from breakfast, an old pocketknife and a silver dollar he had accumulated and headed out of the hills of south central Ky in seek of a better life than his sharecropping father could provide for him and his numerous siblings. He walked bare foot the better part of his Journey to Cleveland. This man hustled and worked his way up the hard way, with everything against him. He embarked on his journey during the height of the great depression. (according to daddy Nate and others, there was nothing great about it) He found work bussing tables, running errands, delivering packages or whatever else opportunities that presented themselves for several years while he lived in back alleys and the occasional hotel room. By the time he was 19 he had educated himself and had landed a job working in a body shop. By the time he was 23 he had found the love of his life and married her... (I have some wonderful memories of Miss Helen, she was a special lady) and was running his own body shop in Cleveland. After a few years daddy Nate had made and saved enough money to return to his home county here in south Central Ky, bought himself a piece of land. He set up a new shop and hustled enough business to keep it running. When I met daddy he and miss Helen were living in a single wide mobile home set up in front of the shop. Their kids were grown by that time but I did have the good fortune to meet their youngest daughter, a special kinda girl she is too! Daddy Nate and I had a very special friendship that lasted well over 30 years up until he passed away. I will never forget the many lessons learned from that man. He never asked for handouts, never turned away anyone who came to him in need. The photo I posted of him was taken on the last day we spent together, out on his boat having a good day. Daddy Nate never had much use for the excuses made by others for their plight, and neither do I. If anyone can make a good life for themselves as he did........ what possible excuse can anyone else have for not doing at least half as well? If people will simply work hard, use their head for something other than a place to hang a hat or grow hair.... they can do well in this country. It is after all one of the wealthiest nations anywhere in the world. For those who believe that our black or hispanic or any other race is being picked on, held back, or otherwise abused in this day and age.....I say bullsquat.... people need to get off their duffs and utilize their talents and reap the rewards of living in what is known around the world as the land of opportunity.


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## Guest (Nov 10, 2010)

Narshalla said:


> Now, however, they've been told for two generations or more that they _aren't_ good enough, that they _can't_ do it on their own, that it is _someone else's_ job to take care of them, and that they are _owed_ this.
> 
> This isn't because of _slavery_, it's because of _Welfare_.


Study up on the history of black people in this country.

*Period 1: Slavery*. 

They were beat down by whites.

*Period 2: Emancipation*. 

They were beat down by whites for the next hundred years. 

There's sooooooooo much about this 100 year so-called emancipation period I want to post, but it would take all night. So I'll only mention a few things. 

Things like, "whites only" and "colored only" signs. 

Things like, entire towns in which it was illegal for a colored person to be within the city limits after sunset- in my lifetime - and not just in the south! 

Things like, if a white man wanted some black --- you know --- he could go visiting and neither she nor her husband could say no or do a darn thing about it.

Things like, lynching of a black man by a white mob because he didn't avert his eyes from a white woman fast enough.

Things like, ostensibly a black man could vote, but he was charged a high poll tax that wasn't levied on whites.

I could go on but won't.

*Period 3: Post Civil Rights*.

Many (NOT ALL), whites didn't like this desegregation thing, and equal rights.

They found a really good way to keep them beat down, now, didn't they? Keep them dependent on whites via welfare. 

Just another way to beat them down.

And the cycle continues.


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## Sonshine (Jul 27, 2007)

Yvonne's hubby said:


> After reading through this thread, and the answers to my previous post in it.....
> 
> I would like yall to meet the man I called "daddy" for a good many years. He passed away a few years ago, but was an inspiration to me, and taught me a lot about life during our 30 year or so friendship.
> 
> ...


I had someone similar in my life. Except I adopted her as my Grandmother when my real Grandmother passed away. Her name was Benny. She had lived next to my Grandmother all my life, until my Grandmother passed away. Since Benny was raising her grandson, I spent more time at her house than at home. She never owned her own business, but worked as a housekeeper to a family in a small town in Alabama. Eventually the family gave her the land and the house she had been living in. (it had been on their property) She then started working as a cleaning lady, cleaning many of the offices in her small town. She is the one who taught me about life in Alabama. I had grown up in Illinois. When we moved to Alabama (I was 15 yrs old) and went to visit with her, she told me that I wasn't in Illinois any more and it may be safer if I didn't visit with her. Of course, I've always been a bit on the stubborn side, so I ignored that piece of advice. She was one of the first ones I visited after adopting our son. She will always have a place in my heart and will always be my Grandmother in my heart.


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## Narshalla (Sep 11, 2008)

ladycat said:


> Study up on the history of black people in this country.
> 
> *Period 1: Slavery*.
> 
> ...


In order for this to work, they have to _cooperate_. The Welfare queen has _choose_ not to get an education, and to have those children instead.

They have to _choose_ to join gangs, commit crimes, value women and "bitches" and "hos," they have to _choose_ to believe that being a pimp drug dealer is the ultimate career goal.

The truth is, I'm tired of it. You talk about how the white man had put his boot on the black man's neck and kept stepping on him, pushing him down. Well, you're wrong. Jessie Jackson and Al Sharpton have done more to keep black from achieving than any white man alive.

You admit that Welfare is a way to keep them "in their place," but your solution is what? Give them more Welfare? Because they can't deal with how bad things are, they just aren't strong enough, so keep paying them off? Is it guilt money?

I mean, as a child, I was a jerk to several different children, some of whom were black. Not because I was racist, though -- because I was a childish jerk. I outgrew it, and do not feel guilty for acting like that. I wish I had been more mature, but I refuse to carry the guilt of my childhood actions through my adulthood, refuse to see being a little @$$ as a child as a sign of systematic societal racism,

More than that, I have never owned a slave. _Never_. In fact, I do not believe that I have ever met anyone who ever has. So why should I pay to salve the feeling of people who share the same skin color as those who were slaves? Why?

Yes, there is still racism in America, but tell me, how does telling the putative victims of that racism that they are now and always will be victims, and can never be anything else, how does that fix the problem?

How does that help them? How does telling the male half of a population, go ahead, father those kids, don't worry, someone else will take care of them, how does that help? How does making sure that if they do stay in that child's life, the child is punished for it, how does that help?

Remember Bill Cosby? Remember what he said? About how they had become their own worst enemy? Remember what happened to him? _African Americans_ shouted him down, shut him out, sidelined him. His message was rejected and reviled by the very people he sought to help, because they did not want to hear that in many cases, it was _their own choices_ that led them to fail.

They don't need racism from whites to fail, they don't need whites to tell them that they aren't good enough, can't do it without help, are going to fail unless the gov't makes someone get out of their way. They can hear all of that from their own side, just by listening to Jessie Jackson and Al Sharpton and all the other race pimps who keep telling them, day in and day out, that they just aren't good enough to make it on their own.

The white boot on the back of their necks, keeping them down, that's imaginary. In reality, the lifestyle that breeds and supports gangsta rap has a boot on their necks. Everyone who tells them not to act white as they try to get an education has a boot on their necks. Jessie Jackson and Al Sharpton need to keep their foot right there, to keep themselves in the limelight, so there's another boot.

Welfare, too, which awards dependency and punishes independence, that's another boot.

So what's your solution? Give money to the RainbowPush coalition so Jessie Jackson and Al Sharpton can spend it for someone's benefit? More Welfare? Punish those who _have_ achieved, black, white, and every color in between?

It isn't racism that keeps people down. Inner city communities don't _need_ racism, they do quite well keeping their own people down without anyone else's help, thank you very much!


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## haypoint (Oct 4, 2006)

ladycat said:


> Study up on the history of black people in this country.
> 
> *Period 1: Slavery*.
> 
> ...


I have no experience in how blacks were treated in N. Texas and OK. I did hear a Black Comedian say that OK was so racist that they donât even have black dogs in OK. 

We are a Republic, not a true Democracy, so we tend to do what is right, not necessarily what the majority want. But if there were widespread segregation desires, desegregation wouldnât have happened.

If we let babies from poor families starve we are evil. Now, you tell us that white folks are holding down the blacks by providing for their welfare. I guess I missed the fences around those taxpayer supported homes and apartments. Iâll have to check down at the Police Department to see those Bloodhounds they keep, just in case someone tries to get loose and take a job. Give me a break. 

The Blacks that left the cotton fields of the south and came to Michigan, found work. Factory owners even helped them finance a car and gave them gas money so they could round up their relatives and bring them up here. That was over 60 years ago.

Yes, there was racisism. But it wasnât aimed at just the African Americans.

Sault Ste. Marie, MI has a canal through town that was made by blasting and hauling rock. A historian, seeking firsthand knowledge, asked an elderly woman, that lived next to the canal, if her father worked on the canal, â Oh, heavens no. There werenât any white people working on the canal. It was mostly Italians.â This attitude has persisted through many nationalities. Native American women werenât allowed on Sault Ste. Marie streets after dark, back in the 1920s. Last time I checked, that was 90 years ago.

I have had to sit at the âback of the busâ as far as employment goes, for over 40 years, while this country tries to undo past inequities, a program called affirmative action. I didnât like it, but I think it is fair.

Despite all this opportunity and advantages, spread over the past 80 some years, Detroit has a high school dropout rate of 70%. Single parent births have exceeded 70% and our prison populations are 70% Black. 

Then you are going to tell me that Iâm keeping them down?

I believe there was mob rule in some communities in the south. I also believe that criminal behavior was less there than in northern Black urban centers. I would never promote nor excuse mob rule, however I cannot deny its effects on limiting crime.

Slavery is a sin. However you are rewriting history when you âbroad brushâ southern farmers beating their slaves. Having no control of where you go and what you do must have been awful. However, on many farms, the Black population was treated as a sort of extended family. We can look back and decry the tarpaper, dirt floor cabins they had to live in. But to see the whole picture, we must admit there were plenty of northern families, often times share croppers, that lived that same standard of living, with an equal inability of escape.

Turning them loose didnât help. Putting them ahead of the line for education and jobs hasnât worked. Subsidizing their living standards has broken their family unit. I do not know what would work. But I think it is clear that this isnât working.

If welfare is another way to keep them down, are you ready to set them free?


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## silverbackMP (Dec 4, 2005)

Yvonne's hubby said:


> After reading through this thread, and the answers to my previous post in it.....
> 
> I would like yall to meet the man I called "daddy" for a good many years. He passed away a few years ago, but was an inspiration to me, and taught me a lot about life during our 30 year or so friendship.
> 
> ...


Awesome post.

Thanks


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## willow_girl (Dec 7, 2002)

> This isnât new. We saw it growing up. If you couldnât take a girl on a date, you stayed home. To go on a date required money, often times a car, too. This required a job. Young women, with a mature eye on their future, knowing that their lifestyle was directly impacted by the potential pay scale of their mate directed their attention to those select few. Therefore, being on an advance career path enhanced your chances of getting a date. This created motivation on the most basic level.
> 
> This motivational tool is shattered when rich suburban Daddy provides a financial safety net to his careless daughter.


Funny; I was sure that last sentence was going to end with " ... when rich suburban Daddy provides a fast car and plenty of spending money to his son." LOL


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## Bigkat80 (Jan 16, 2007)

willow_girl said:


> And if you look at employment numbers, I suspect you will find they closely mirror those statistics.
> 
> If a man is unlikely to be a good provider, there is a little incentive for a woman to marry him.


One would Ponder if choosing him for a sex partner is any wiser a move...Hmmmmmm If you aint gonna marry him dont make him the baby daddy....


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## Bigkat80 (Jan 16, 2007)

lamoncha lover said:


> well lets see. I had to foster my grandkids prior to adopting them. 1200 a piece? HUH I think not. Considering the career I gave up, the minivan I had to buy, the cost of my groceries, clothing, and just damages to my house...I certainly have not made any money. But that was not the point anyway. The point was to put them all together in a safe stable environment. I would hate a system that would tell me I could take 3 of them but the fourth ..well..too bad for you. They try to keep kids together. Better in the home of a person they already kow and love....
> In my opinion family that steps in should have many resources available as a support system. Not necessarily more financial, but for sure support options.
> I don't believe its so much a race thing as a economic thing. Common sense says if you have 1 child and live in poverty you don'thave 4..or 8. Too bad so many folks lack common sense


IMHO the government should not be giving Grand parents any resoursces for fostering their grandkids...Its there job to take care of their own if my kids cant i should as they should when I get older...its not the governments job people...sheesh......


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## Bigkat80 (Jan 16, 2007)

willow_girl said:


> Suz,
> 
> I saw a recent study that indicated women in America experience more unintended/unwanted pregnancies than do women in most other First World nations in part because of differences in the way birth control is used.
> 
> ...


I would have to see the statisitics on that the vast majority of the minority poor we are discussing dont use birth control....as far as I can tell its not taught and or they actually dont think they are gonna get caught up...as one young AA lady that worked for me says , her baby daddy looked good with his shirt off and after that she didnt even think about it till it was to late....she is a single mother of 2 now 3 children the baby daddy( he has 13 children by 5 different women) is not paying Child support...come on you really think these folks are running around discussing the pill or a condom? your naive at best....I dont think you relize how deep the ignorance in some of these inner city generational welfare families is....I had one actually tell me that she would spit in the wind three times to the south if she had sex to prevent pregnancy thats what her mother told her anyway....Your confused by what I can only assume is an limited exposure to the inner city black culture....Pitiful ignorance at best willful manipulation of the law at worst....


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## Guest (Nov 10, 2010)

Narshalla said:


> You talk about how the white man had put his boot on the black man's neck and kept stepping on him, pushing him down. Well, you're wrong. Jessie Jackson and Al Sharpton have done more to keep black from achieving than any white man alive.
> <snip>
> You admit that Welfare is a way to keep them "in their place," but your solution is what? Give them more Welfare? Because they can't deal with how bad things are, they just aren't strong enough, so keep paying them off? Is it guilt money?
> <snip>
> ...





haypoint said:


> If we let babies from poor families starve we are evil. Now, you tell us that white folks are holding down the blacks by providing for their welfare. I guess I missed the fences around those taxpayer supported homes and apartments. Iâll have to check down at the Police Department to see those Bloodhounds they keep, just in case someone tries to get loose and take a job. Give me a break.
> <snip>
> Then you are going to tell me that Iâm keeping them down?
> <snip>
> ...


You guys are not hearing me. 

Whites STARTED it. The poor blacks are the ones CONTINUING it. They are doing it to themselves!!

Some of the black leaders are helping them continue it by reminding them how rotten whites have been to them. This just reinforces the entitlement attitude.

Fortunately there are also black leaders speaking up and telling them to get off their duffs and break the cycle.

Blacks have more opportunities in this country than they ever had before! Many of them ARE taking advantage of education and work opportunities. Many of them ARE breaking the cycle!

How many of you saw the "CBS Evening News with Katie Couric" yesterday? If you did, you saw "Troubling Trend for Black Males". You can watch it here: 
http://www.cbsnews.com/video/eveningnews/



haypoint said:


> I have no experience in how blacks were treated in N. Texas and OK.


I don't either, really. There are hardly any blacks at all here. Wichita Falls does have one slum neighborhood where the residents are mainly black.

The blacks in my own family are treated by us as totally equals, because they ARE equal. I have 2 black nephews. Unfortunately my niece and their daddy recently divorced, but he was certainly part of the family in every way. His sons still are!

Lots of ****** around here, though.  There are reservations (Indian Nations) all over!


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## watcher (Sep 4, 2006)

Narshalla said:


> Okay, I'll give you that. But the living grandchildren of people who were old enough to remember being slaves are few and far between. Most of the people alive today assume that they have a slave ancestry based on skin color alone, but cannot actually point to an ancestor that _was_ a slave. Also, many of the people who assume that their ancestors were slaves in America actually have ancestors that came to America _after_ the Civil War, and thus do not.
> 
> What I really wonder about, though, is the fact that _before_ Lyndon Johnson's "Great Society," black unemployment was right in line with all of the groups, adult illiteracy was less than 10%, children born to unwed mothers made up only 1/5 of the births, eighth grade graduation rates were above 80% (and that was plenty of education to get a _good_ job back then,) and highschool graduation rates were over 60%.
> 
> ...


There you go folks. Read that again and maybe you'll understand the problem. Teach a hungry man to fish and he'll feed himself. Give a hungry man a fish and he'll become dependent on you and you can make him your slave.


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## lilmizlayla (Aug 28, 2008)

you'll act like its a black/white thing. it isnt> its a male/female issue. when men...OF ALL RACES...step up and act like MEN..then we will no longer need welfare. 
When men are FATHERS to their children we will see improvement. a father who refuses to take responsibility gets the same sorry result..no matter what the color. a white child isnt going to turn out any better with a father out of the picture as the black child is. 

the problem isnt in the race..its in the gender


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## hobbyfarmer (Oct 10, 2007)

Well, I just learned from a classmate that when military families are transferred to Ft. Knox they are told, during their orientation, that if they are a minority (black or hispanic) they need to avoid certain areas of KY. The county where I live being one of them...What?

Fortunately, two of the black Army wives said they had had an orientation like that but they've NEVER experienced white racism in KY. On lady said she was warned before the transfer and after that she would be treated badly. One supervisor told her when she called asking for directions, that if she didn't turn her butt around and get out of the area she was in, she would be hung. Are you kidding me?!? I'm so glad this lady is able to judge for herself. I seriously doubt the people doing this "training" are from KY.

If we don't stop telling minorities that they're going to be mistreated, they are always going to see mistreatment around every corner and under every bush. I've heard all my life about sexism. Being a woman, I have certainly experienced sexism but I'm guessing if I had been told every day of my life that men were going to hurt me, or laugh at me, or try to rob me of any dignity - then those few examples of obnoxious men in my life might have made a more negative impression than they should have. If I had been told all my life that I can't be both successful AND female, I might not try. If earning a decent living and speaking respectfully to others were taboo in my culture, maybe I wouldn't try. Idk. I can see that personal responsibility has been labeled "acting white" in the black culture. But, WE didn't invent that label. The black community did. Only the black community can remove it.

Also, personally, I think for as long as we are being asked to "Select your race" every time we fill out a form, we're not going to stop identifying every stupid thing in the world by race. You don't HAVE to check your race on any form or application, but I think I'm going to select "other" from now on...and no, I'm not going to "Please explain" either.


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## Narshalla (Sep 11, 2008)

ladycat said:


> You guys are not hearing me.
> 
> Whites STARTED it. The poor blacks are the ones CONTINUING it. They are doing it to themselves!!
> 
> ...


That's the first time you have even implied this, much less stated it.


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## watcher (Sep 4, 2006)

lilmizlayla said:


> you'll act like its a black/white thing. it isnt> its a male/female issue. when men...OF ALL RACES...step up and act like MEN..then we will no longer need welfare.
> When men are FATHERS to their children we will see improvement. a father who refuses to take responsibility gets the same sorry result..no matter what the color. a white child isnt going to turn out any better with a father out of the picture as the black child is.
> 
> the problem isnt in the race..its in the gender


It takes two to tango. If the women would stop acting like <insert you own word here> then there would not be children produced.


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## Guest (Nov 10, 2010)

Narshalla said:


> That's the first time you have even implied this, much less stated it.


The first time I said what? This?



ladycat said:


> As I said, I wasn't posting about the KKK.
> 
> Don't you get it about the "disdain for education"??? A black from the slums who wants to better himself is considered "uppity" by his peers. The prevailing (though subconcious) mentality is that they aren't supposed to be good enough to do that.
> 
> ...


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## haypoint (Oct 4, 2006)

lilmizlayla said:


> you'll act like its a black/white thing. it isnt> its a male/female issue. when men...OF ALL RACES...step up and act like MEN..then we will no longer need welfare.
> When men are FATHERS to their children we will see improvement. a father who refuses to take responsibility gets the same sorry result..no matter what the color. a white child isnt going to turn out any better with a father out of the picture as the black child is.
> 
> the problem isnt in the race..its in the gender


If 70% of white babies were being born into a single parent family, the topic wouldnât be about black babies. 
While there are far too many white men failing to step up to the responsibilities of fatherhood, the facts are that it is epidemic in Black families. 
Women OF ALL RACES need to use some common sense before they invite a potential father to her children into her bed. 
None of the drunk, drug addicted, under-educated, unemployable men would have a chance to turn their backs on their children if women would also take responsibility for their actions, not allow them to father children.
I see too much pity given to the poor woman that has three or four children and no one to help her support them. Often times, she knew she was sleeping with a âbad boyâ and a series of similar choices has created an epidemic. 
The problem isnât gender specific, takes two to tango. The problem isnât epidemic in the white families. The problem isnât exclusive to Black families. But when births to single Black moms heads for 80% with a corresponding high school dropout rate, it is wrong to think the Welfare system can fix it.
How does Nat. Org for Women stand on this touchy issue?


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## Tracy Rimmer (May 9, 2002)

willow_girl said:


> If a man is unlikely to be a good provider, there is a little incentive for a woman to marry him.


Then she shouldn't be procreating with him unless she is willing and able to take on the sole responsibility of supporting any resultant children.

The problem isn't skin color or ethnicity or socioeconomic group (although some groups would like society as a whole to think so), it's about a lack of personal responsibility, and the crutches that have been given to specific groups because "they can't be expected to do it for themselves". Enabling these groups is just as prejudicial as denying them.


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## Guest (Nov 10, 2010)

Tracy Rimmer said:


> Then she shouldn't be procreating with him unless she is willing and able to take on the sole responsibility of supporting any resultant children.
> 
> The problem isn't skin color or ethnicity or socioeconomic group (although some groups would like society as a whole to think so), it's about a lack of personal responsibility, and the crutches that have been given to specific groups because "they can't be expected to do it for themselves". Enabling these groups is just as prejudicial as denying them.


You are right.

And I've known plenty of whites with exactly the same mindsets.


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## Oggie (May 29, 2003)

I don't know about any of the rest of you, but the man be keeping me down.


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## lilmizlayla (Aug 28, 2008)

haypoint said:


> If 70% of white babies were being born into a single parent family, the topic wouldnât be about black babies.
> While there are far too many white men failing to step up to the responsibilities of fatherhood, the facts are that it is epidemic in Black families.
> Women OF ALL RACES need to use some common sense before they invite a potential father to her children into her bed.
> None of the drunk, drug addicted, under-educated, unemployable men would have a chance to turn their backs on their children if women would also take responsibility for their actions, not allow them to father children.
> ...


it IS gender specific. women are raising the kids..men are not pulling their weight. it takes two to raise a child. The fact that women sleep with a loser doesnt give LOSER a free pass to not take care of their responsibility. 
If she is living with her choices (raising the child) then why is still her fault? 

national organization for women??......it was said once from the leader that all women should be lesbians. (dunno 'bout that one. )


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## Guest (Nov 10, 2010)

lilmizlayla said:


> national organization for women??......it was said once from the leader that all women should be lesbians. (dunno 'bout that one. )


Well, there would be no more worries about population control...


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## Narshalla (Sep 11, 2008)

ladycat said:


> The first time I said what? This?


The underlined part, of course.



Narshalla said:


> ladycat said:
> 
> 
> > You guys are not hearing me.
> ...


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## Narshalla (Sep 11, 2008)

Oggie said:


> I don't know about any of the rest of you, but the man be keeping me down.


No, cats are.


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## Guest (Nov 10, 2010)

Narshalla said:


> The underlined part, of course.


Well there ya go. I had already said it when you said I didn't.


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## Narshalla (Sep 11, 2008)

ladycat said:


> Well there ya go. I had already said it when you said I didn't.


????

You said it int that post, and not before, which any reasonable person would have understood from my post.


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## Guest (Nov 11, 2010)

Narshalla said:


> ????
> 
> You said it int that post, and not before, which any reasonable person would have understood from my post.


*sigh*

Tuesday Nov 9, 12.55pm


ladycat said:


> Whites started it, and now blacks are perpetuating it on their own.


Wed Nov 10, 7:49am


ladycat said:


> Whites STARTED it. The poor blacks are the ones CONTINUING it. They are doing it to themselves!!


Wed Nov 10, 9:24am, in response to the second post.


Narshalla said:


> That's the first time you have even implied this, much less stated it.


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## texican (Oct 4, 2003)

There are some very basic ingredients needed for poverty.

No high school education.
Children outside of marriage.
Drug addictions.

"Black Culture" will never address this problem. As long as Black Culture supports their Liberal Masters, the problem will never go away. The Liberal Masters would be fools to free their indentured servants. Without their blind obedience, they'd never win another election.


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