# Milk.



## Jesse L (Nov 6, 2008)

Ive got a doe that isnt doing a good job producing milk at this point. Ive fosterd some kits out - thanks to ladysown they are at her place with one of her does. 

I kept two for her...but was wondering if worse comes to worst i was wondering if evaporated milk is what I would use with the baby bunnies?


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## MaggieJ (Feb 6, 2006)

Goat's milk is supposed to be the best thing, if you can get it, but I seem to remember that Bernadette used canned evaporated milk for her orphans with good results. Just be sure it is evaporated milk and not sweetened condensed milk, which has far too much sugar added to it.


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## vikav (Mar 30, 2009)

You could try giving the doe several oz pasteurized goat milk from the grocery store. I did that when my red kits seemed awfully hungry at about 3 weeks. It looked like that has increased the doe's milk production, as the next day they were much happier and fuller.


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## pookshollow (Aug 22, 2005)

I've read (no experience, mind!) that you can soak _dry_ bread in milk and give it to a doe that is not producing enough milk. I don't believe it specified goat's or cow's milk. 

If you were closer, I'd let you have some fresh goat's milk for the kits. :stars:


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## MaggieJ (Feb 6, 2006)

pookshollow said:


> I've read (no experience, mind!) that you can soak _dry_ bread in milk and give it to a doe that is not producing enough milk. I don't believe it specified goat's or cow's milk.
> 
> If you were closer, I'd let you have some fresh goat's milk for the kits. :stars:


I've read that too, in a 1942 British Young Farmers Booklet on raising rabbits. It seems to have been a common practice in the days before pelleted feed. Whole grain bread would be a more nutritious choice than white bread.


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## byexample (Aug 28, 2009)

Pet stores have a milk replacement for cats... a vet suggested that to us as an option when we had a doe die with a big litter. We fostered out as many as we could (that's why I always breed in pairs now) and then tried to hand feed the rest.

We ultimately wound up with fresh goats milk from the neighbors.

How old are your buns? If they are really young I suggest that you pasteurize raw milk before giving it to the buns... without milk from their momma their immune systems will be weak. And raw milk has all sorts of things living in it (which is what makes it sooo good).

Be certain this is the path you want to take before you start down this road. Our experiences hand-feeding 5 young kits were rough. It's not easy to bottle feed something the size of a mouse. And, in theory, it needs to be done 2 to 4 times a day. We were spending 4 hours a day hand feeding 5 kits. Ultimately none survived.

You have to be very, very careful not to get ANY milk into their lungs... or they likely won't make it. And this is much more difficult than one might think. Baby buns are supposedly very susseptable to lung infections when young.

Wash your hands... lots... especially before touching them. Again, their immune systems are likely compromised or weak. Don't let any other animals get near them. Keep bedding, towels, etc.. as clean as possible.

Be careful not to over-feed. Their tummies are really, really little. It's also a good idea to 'massage' them a little (like a momma licking her babes) because their digestive systems aren't fully mature... so the external stimulation is supposed to help them pee and poop. Otherwise they can succumb to burst bladders, backups, etc.. (Did a whole bunch of reading on the subject of hand raising kits during the time).

I'll likely never try to do this again. It was a really time consuming process... and then it was heart wrenching to have to watch them die one at a time (several in my hands). Most managed to live for a week or more... but they just didn't grow correctly. 

The fostered kits ALL lived and grew up to be quite healthy and vibrant. In fact I've (so far) had a 100% success rate with fostering kits. So I now breed in pairs and balance the nests between the two does after they both kindle.

Best of luck.

Kind regards,

Patrick Harris
http://ByExample.com


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## MaggieJ (Feb 6, 2006)

Dandelion greens, dill and borage (another herb) are all believed to help a doe produce more milk. Some fresh dandelion leaves should not be hard to find, Jesse.


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## ladysown (May 3, 2008)

jesse

if you need to bring those last two kits over just stop on in. Sally is a big enough doe she should handle them just fine. Do you remember which cage she's in? nice doe...just don't move fast! 

we'll be home monday afternoon.

round our way Maggie we've had a frost....dandelion is getting scarer to come by.


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## MaggieJ (Feb 6, 2006)

ladysown said:


> round our way Maggie we've had a frost....dandelion is getting scarer to come by.


Yikes! Already? We had a touch of frost a couple of mornings, but it didn't do much damage. The drought was making greens hard to come by, but the rain came last night so I'm hoping the greens will recover nicely. We can usually get some greens here well into October... likely because of Lake Ontario keeping temperatures moderate.


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## Guest (Sep 27, 2009)

I successfully raised a litter of wild cottontail bunnies once. They were about 2 weeks old when I got them, so I only bottle fed them for about a two weeks before I had them eating solid food. It's not something I intend to do again. Like someone else said, its just so hard with something so tiny. I used kitten milk replacer for them.

I've learned over the years of supplementing and/or hand-raising puppies and kittens, that a homemade formula (not just the evaporated milk) wins hands-down when compared to commercial milk replacers. Those fed a homemade formula A) EAGERLY eat it and B) Grow faster and better than those raised on commercial milk replacers (commercial milk replacer as 1 or 2 calores per cc, while homemade has 11 per cc). 

Now, I don't know if a homemade rabbit formula would be much different than the dog/cat formula...but the fact that cats/dogs are carnivores and rabbits are herbivores may interfere. But vets recommend the cat/dog formula for rabbits. So if I were to hand-raise orphan kits, I'd probably just use my puppy formula:

10 oz. of canned evaporated milk or goat's milk. Goats milk is by far the best to use. 
3 oz. sterilized water (this is not needed if using goat's milk)
1 raw egg yolk
1 cup of whole yogurt (avoid skim or fat free if at all possible)
1/2 Tsp Karo Syrup or Corn Syrup (NOT HONEY !!!)


The basis of this formula is the milk and yogurt. The yogurat adds extra calories and probiotics. The egg is for added protein. The Karo Syrup is for energy.


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## byexample (Aug 28, 2009)

Wow, that's a great looking recipe. Thank you so much for posting it.

I'm no expert, but I think most mammals the same size range likely have very similar nutritional needs early on in life... I've hand-raised abandoned kittens once that we found at about 2 weeks of age. I fed them softly cooked scrambled eggs until they were weening age... worked fabulously. I suppose that you could probably feed some amount of scrambled eggs to kits once they were more than a few weeks old.

I also had someone recommend making a corn bread with plenty of egg & milk... and then soaking it in milk as a potential food replacement for rabbits more than 2 weeks old. We never got to the point where we could try it with our attempt at hand-raising kits.

Please let us know how you make out if you decide to hand-feed your kits.

Be well,

Patrick Harris
http://ByExample.com


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## MaggieJ (Feb 6, 2006)

Lyndseyrk said:


> 10 oz. of canned evaporated milk or goat's milk. Goats milk is by far the best to use.
> 3 oz. sterilized water (this is not needed if using goat's milk)
> 1 raw egg yolk
> 1 cup of whole yogurt (avoid skim or fat free if at all possible)
> 1/2 Tsp Karo Syrup or Corn Syrup (NOT HONEY !!!)


Your recipe is quite similar to ones I have seen for rabbit kits, except for the yogourt... and I cannot see it being anything but a benefit to them. Rabbit milk is incredibly rich, so the richness of this formula would likely be beneficial. If I ever have occasion to use a formula, I'm definitely giving this one a try. Thanks for posting it.


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## jil101ca (Jul 2, 2007)

If you need to bottle feed these kits and can get raw milk I would suggest NOT pasturizing it, the living things in the milk are what the kits need, pasturizing it kills the good as well. Wash your hands but not with soap or hand sanitizers, just use water. You will need to wipe their backsides with a warm damp cloth or piece of cotten, this is what stimulates them to go potty. I found the kitten replacer didn't have enough fat in it so miixed it with 18% cream, the recipe posted sound great and I wish I had it when I bottle fed a litter of 9.


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## Guest (Sep 28, 2009)

Yes, raw goat milk is the better way to go. If you don't have access to a goat, make some calls to anyone you know who has dairy goats. You wouldn't need much for a rabbit. My father-in-law raises dairy goats, and he always freezes his excess he doesn't use himself or sell. So I have practically an unlimited supply if needed. 

You can buy canned goat milk (at least at Walmart anyway). You'll find it with the other canned milks (evaporated, condensed, etc).


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## MaggieJ (Feb 6, 2006)

Lyndseyrk said:


> My father-in-law raises dairy goats, and he always freezes his excess he doesn't use himself or sell. So I have practically an unlimited supply if needed.


It occurs to me that an easy way of "condensing" whole milk would be to freeze it and then thaw it partially and drain off the richer parts. The water content is always the last part to drain off and could be discarded. People do the same thing with wine to get a stronger beverage. :buds:


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## o&itw (Dec 19, 2008)

It might be noted, that "evaporated milk" is not the same as it used to be. Originally it was just that, double concentrated milk, now most of it is reduced fat or fat free, and sometimes if you look at the contents, it is just "canned" skimmed milk and not centrated at all. I tried to find some regular "condesened" milk a few months back an it was almost impossible... the can looks the same, but read carefully.

I have, for the most part, given up on hand raising kits, I have bought the same bottles the vets use, it takes a terrific amount of time and patience, and if susccesful the kits are usually puny. I admire those who can do it.
to "stimulate" the kits, it is best to use a soft warm wet cloth, remember that you are trying to simulate licking. Another problem is that the mixture is sticky, the kits need to be cleaned off each time you feed them...

I sincerely offer the best of luck to any that try.


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## Kshobbit (May 14, 2002)

I raised a litter of bunnies on goats milk. I didn't add anything to it cause I didn't know any better. Only lost one of them. Good luck


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