# Keto and calories



## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

In every diet you set calorie goals for weight loss. In keto you also set goals for carbs, fat and protein. You do this because of the benifits that eating less carbs and more fat give you.

Lower blood sugar
Satiety - less hunger eating the same calories
No carb or sugar crash
More energy from burning fat for fuel

Go for it barnbilder. Use this thread to cut keto down and leave the rest alone.


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## Skamp (Apr 26, 2014)

From a rececent keto post


1449 calories
111g fat
12g carb
92g protein


Cholesterol almost 3x

Copper less than 1/4

Fiber, deplorable

Folate, 1/3

Iron, 60%

Magnesium, 18%

Manganese, 37%

Niacin, 27%

Pantothenic acid, 37%

Potassium, 1/4

Riboflavin, 63%

Selenium, 88 %

Sodium, bingo

Thiamin, 18%

Vitamin A, nice

B-12, 40%

B-6, 34%

C is really close, 94%

D is 14%

E is 36%

Zinc is 29%


And, half the monthly recommendation for processed meat is gone.


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## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

Skamp said:


> From a rececent keto post
> 
> 
> 1449 calories
> ...


What is your your point?


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## Skamp (Apr 26, 2014)

painterswife said:


> What is your your point?


If you can't see it, I don't think I can explain it any more clearly.


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## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

I would appreciate you explaining.


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## Skamp (Apr 26, 2014)

painterswife said:


> I would appreciate you explaining.


I've tried many times, others have too. It just doesn't work. Chew on the facts and make your own mind up. Isn't that the "diet" theme?


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## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

So drive by posting with no discussion just attitude. Got it.


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## Oregon1986 (Apr 25, 2017)

Honestly people talking badly about keto don't bother me because I'm living proof it works and I feel amazing


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## Terri (May 10, 2002)

It looks like the person with that diet needs a vitamin pill and a salad.


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## Skamp (Apr 26, 2014)

painterswife said:


> So drive by posting with no discussion just attitude. Got it.


Nope. I'm here to stay. I'd just like to discuss with someone that can keep inside the white lines.


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## Skamp (Apr 26, 2014)

Oregon1986 said:


> Honestly people talking badly about keto don't bother me because I'm living proof it works and I feel amazing


Seems I remember some strange problems a few days back?


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## Skamp (Apr 26, 2014)

Terri said:


> It looks like the person with that diet needs a vitamin pill and a salad.



That's right, better living through chemistry. 

A salad ain't gonna fix it.


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## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

Terri said:


> It looks like the person with that diet needs a vitamin pill and a salad.


Seems to me that RDA for vitamins are arbitrary. First they should be based on weight because there is no way a 90 pound women can get the same as a 200 pound man because of the calories they eat.

Second everyone knows that when you reduce calories you can't possibly get the recommended daily amount and need a supplement.

Third different body types and different activity levels also dictate what amount of vitamins you need. Even your age and sex make a difference.

Fourth. I look at my vitamins over a week and not a day.


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## Oregon1986 (Apr 25, 2017)

Skamp said:


> Seems I remember some strange problems a few days back?


Sure I've had my ups and downs with it,as anyone does anytime they make a lifestyle change


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## Skamp (Apr 26, 2014)

Oregon1986 said:


> Sure I've had my ups and downs with it,as anyone does anytime they make a lifestyle change


In an honest way I approached/warned you of the micro deficiency that you would likely develop a month or so ago. It was out of honest concern for your health.


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## Oregon1986 (Apr 25, 2017)

Skamp said:


> In an honest way I approached/warned you of the micro deficiency that you would likely develop a month or so ago. It was out of honest concern for your health.


My defiency was because I was not eating enough greens or taking the right supplements


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## Skamp (Apr 26, 2014)

Oregon1986 said:


> My defiency was because I was not eating enough greens or taking the right supplements


So, you did/do have a deficiency? You did/do supplement that deficiency with uncontrolled chemical compounds?


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## Skamp (Apr 26, 2014)

painterswife said:


> Seems to me that RDA for vitamins are arbitrary. First they should be based on weight because there is no way a 90 pound women can get the same as a 200 pound man because of the calories they eat.
> 
> Second everyone knows that when you reduce calories you can't possibly get the recommended daily amount and need a supplement.
> 
> ...


The NIH/USDA has recommendations for infant to geriatric. It ain't arbitrary.

You can, if you'll pay attention, get your micros at reduced calories.

Third is the same as first.

For fat soluble, that's likely OK. For water soluble, you best be on your game.


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## barnbilder (Jul 1, 2005)

If you calculate your caloric needs and check those calculations by carefully plotting your weight so that you can look at it on a graph, it makes little difference what those calories come from in regards to weight loss. For your health, you better shoot for somewhere near at least 0.5 grams of protein for pound of ideal body weight. If you wanted to change your metabolism by adding lean muscle mass, 0.8 grams per pound would be even better. If you really like to stuff your face with all the food you can eat like I do, and build lots of lean muscle mass, a gram per pound is even better. You have to keep track of everything you eat, as much as possible, and weigh every meal, every sploosh of condiment, and every sip of anything that is not water.

Since where those calories come from, either fats or carbs, makes little difference it comes down to a matter of personal preference. People with type 2 diabetes would probably want to stay away from the sugar bowl. People that have a history of heart disease and kidney stones might want to stay away from the lard bucket. 

Personally, I am lazy. It's hard enough to do the only thing I have ever done that actually worked to control and maintain my weight, which is a flexible diet and careful tracking,without making all kinds of severely limiting diet rules to impose on myself. If there is cheesecake, and I want cheesecake, I eat cheesecake, and make it fit in my daily allotment. If I want M&Ms, I eat them and make the math work out, usually for that day, but possibly for that week. I really hate math, so it becomes easy to resist the temptation to need lots of higher math to make that all work out.

I don't have anything against keto. I probably eat more fat calories than anyone here. And I have washboard abs and can dead lift multiple people. But, I do very vehemently oppose anyone that advocates eating from a list of healthy foods that will change the metabolism, and magically cause weight loss without careful planning and tracking. Because that is the lie that wasted years of my life, spent as a disgusting fatty, losing and gaining back the same 20, 50 or 75 pounds over and over. Flex dieting is control, because there are no restrictions. It doesn't feel like a diet. Honestly, most people have a hard time eating that much food when they start.

I know what is in this stuff, because I track it every day. Don't try and tell me that adding a spoon of butter in place of a spoon of sugar will make everything alright. Neither one of them gave you any protein to speak of, so they are just fuel for a sleek and powerful love machine, or a larger vessel of some sort depending on how you choose your nutritional battles. But the butter is over double the caloric density, so you need to be mindful of that. I could probably put a cup of butter in my coffee without hurting anything, you might as well. If you like butter in your coffee by all means put butter in your coffee. Just don't tell people that might not be aware of calorie math that it is going to work as a straight substitution and help them in their struggle. Because that can get people in trouble. I've been that person and though I was doing the right thing, when I know now that I was doing the exact opposite of what I needed to do.


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## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

Did you see my first post? Calorie restriction is a given.

You posted assumptions based on someone's posting about what vitamins vthey get daily but have no clue what they weigh or their daily activity.


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## Skamp (Apr 26, 2014)

painterswife said:


> Did you see my first post? Calorie restriction is a given.
> 
> You posted assumptions based on someone's posting about what vitamins vthey get daily but have no clue what they weigh or their daily activity.


Who you talkin' to Willis? Quote something.


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## Alice In TX/MO (May 10, 2002)

Never mind.


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## Skamp (Apr 26, 2014)

Alice In TX/MO said:


> Never mind.


But, but, it was “disgusting”.


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## Alice In TX/MO (May 10, 2002)

Bingo.


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## Skamp (Apr 26, 2014)

Alice In TX/MO said:


> Bingo.


What’s “disgusting”?


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## Alice In TX/MO (May 10, 2002)

The bickering and thread hijacking.


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## Skamp (Apr 26, 2014)

Alice In TX/MO said:


> The bickering and thread hijacking.



I wonder why Hollywood has such a draw. Speak to the point, without the drama. “disgusting?”.


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## Alice In TX/MO (May 10, 2002)

Alice In TX/MO said:


> The bickering and thread hijacking.


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## Skamp (Apr 26, 2014)

So, you’d rather whatch. I get it.


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## MoonRiver (Sep 2, 2007)

Skamp said:


> If you can't see it, I don't think I can explain it any more clearly.


What you posted isn't keto. Too much protein.


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## Skamp (Apr 26, 2014)

MoonRiver said:


> What you posted isn't keto. Too much protein.



Lol. That’s not me. That’s a Keto subject.

That’s a Keto subject with a very lacking micro profile.


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## vicki in NW OH (May 10, 2002)

I'm a retired medical transcriptionist. I transcribed for a bariatric/weight-loss clinic, which amounted to thousands of dictations over the years. Almost everyone, whether it was weight-loss surgery or a medically-supervised diet, took supplements for lacking micronutrients, not just low-carb/keto.


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## Skamp (Apr 26, 2014)

Something as extreme as Keto should be clinically managed.


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## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

Skamp said:


> Something as extreme as Keto should be clinically managed.


How is Keto extreme in your opinion?


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## MoonRiver (Sep 2, 2007)

Skamp said:


> Something as extreme as Keto should be clinically managed.


Is keto more dangerous than SAD?


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## Skamp (Apr 26, 2014)

painterswife said:


> How is Keto extreme in your opinion?


It’s horribly deficient in micros.


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## Skamp (Apr 26, 2014)

MoonRiver said:


> Is keto more dangerous than SAD?


That’s a good question. I don’t know. I can say that both are too dangerous for me.


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## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

Skamp said:


> It’s horribly deficient in micros.


Again you are going by RDA's based only on age and sex, not weight and activity. You also don't know what people are eating in day or a week. You don't know how many calories they are eating. You don't know their height and weight. You are making assumptions with no facts to back you up.

I put my food in cronometer an the only thing that I sometimes have a problem getting is magnesium because I need more than others because of my personal female hormones and age. That is easily solved with an epson salt soak or magnesium oil.

I would also like to note that I don't count on RDA's to decide what I need. I know because what I need more or less of because of how I feel. For example I know that potassium and magnesium are something that I need much more of than others do. My body tells me within 24 hours if I am not getting enough.


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## Alice In TX/MO (May 10, 2002)

https://ods.od.nih.gov/Health_Information/Dietary_Reference_Intakes.aspx

These are based on current understanding, obviously. The numbers have changed and will change again as research continues.


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## Skamp (Apr 26, 2014)

painterswife said:


> Again you are going by RDA's based only on age and sex, not weight and activity. You also don't know what people are eating in day or a week. You don't know how many calories they are eating. You don't know their height and weight. You are making assumptions with no facts to back you up.
> 
> I put my food in cronometer an the only thing that I sometimes have a problem getting is magnesium because I need more than others because of my personal female hormones and age. That is easily solved with an epson salt soak or magnesium oil.
> 
> I would also like to note that I don't count on RDA's to decide what I need. I know because what I need more or less of because of how I feel. For example I know that potassium and magnesium are something that I need much more of than others do. My body tells me within 24 hours if I am not getting enough.


RDA is based mainly on age and sex. Water solubles could be adjusted by activity, maybe. But, upper and lower limits account for that.

Kudos to you for tracking.

I’m glad your self diagnoses trumps medical science. Carry on. You should write a book.


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## barnbilder (Jul 1, 2005)

Yay, a thread made for people to trash people that don't believe in keto. How quaint.


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## Skamp (Apr 26, 2014)

barnbilder said:


> Yay, a thread made for people to trash people that don't believe in keto. How quaint.


Or many other myths. You were called out at the start. Been planting tomatoes is your only excuse for just now showing. 

Quality of calories has been my defense.


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## Skamp (Apr 26, 2014)

Terri said:


> It looks like the person with that diet needs a vitamin pill and a salad.


I’ve meant to add that the second post is a profile of a poster in this thread. 

I know I am terse, but I am honestly concerned with the health and well-being of those here, and the information passed to those to come.


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## Skamp (Apr 26, 2014)

Alice In TX/MO said:


> The bickering and thread hijacking.


PW opened it up.


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## Skamp (Apr 26, 2014)

Alice In TX/MO said:


> https://ods.od.nih.gov/Health_Information/Dietary_Reference_Intakes.aspx
> 
> These are based on current understanding, obviously. The numbers have changed and will change again as research continues.



I’ve got an excel sheet made up based on those recommendations. I made it up years ago, and try to confirm it yearly. 

There are much simpler publications released, I’ll try to post those this weekend.


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## Skamp (Apr 26, 2014)

“Discovered today that Denney's does lettuce wraps,was pretty darn good”

There is 1.5 times your carb allotment in one. Lol


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## barnbilder (Jul 1, 2005)

Found this interesting. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/29737587?dopt=Abstract


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## Alice In TX/MO (May 10, 2002)

That is totally understandable. Type 1 diabetes is a different disease than Type 2.

The keto diet isn’t recommended for Type 1.


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## Nsoitgoes (Jan 31, 2016)

Alice In TX/MO said:


> That is totally understandable. Type 1 diabetes is a different disease than Type 2.
> 
> The keto diet isn’t recommended for Type 1.


Actually, Dr Richard Bernstein (himself a type 1 diabetic) does recommend a low carb approach. It is only when a type 1 has both high blood glucose as well as blood ketones that it is dangerous (keto-acidosis). In fact, prior to the purification of insulin a ketogenic type of diet was recommended for diabetics (both types) and although type 1s rarely lived a very long life, those that reduced carbs drastically lived longer.


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