# What to do first....



## Sturedman (Nov 18, 2012)

Here is my situation. We live in Wheeling, WV and both work. We bought our 10 acres about an hour away. The only thing that came with the property was a gorgeous barn. We are not converting the barn into a house. We are building our own small house. I need to run electric, do a well and & septic and build the house. We have no savings, since we spent that on the property. I will be 57 next May. In August, we paid off the house. It is not worth a lot of money, and we didn't pay a lot for it. It is very liveable, and will turn a nice profit when we sell hopefully. 

The house is in decent shape, no leaks, newer windows central air and heat. It needs a lot of cosmetic type of work, and a new kitchen. I could sell it right now for what I've got in it, but we aren't prepared to move anywhere, and can't live on the property until we have enough saved to live on until social security kicks in. 

No one has a clue for what the future of this country is. I think I can build a small house out there with the well and septic in the $30-35,000 range. With the house being paid off here, I can commit to about $1,000 a month in "extra" money. It will take 3 years to get everything built out there I think. I need to spend about $10-15,000 on this house that we are in.

The question is....which to do first? Not knowing what the future of real estate in Wheeling holds in store, 3 years might be too late to realize anything from this house, or maybe with 10-15,000 put into it, I could make another 25,000 on the sale, or I could lose it all lol.

I am just wondering what other people's thoughts are. I have the sense of urgency to get things set up that we could "bug out" to in case it gets worse sooner than expected. I looked at selling this now, renting a place for a couple of years, and use the $40-50,000 from the house to build out there. Rent here is impossible to find. With all the oil and gas people in town, it would be a $1,000 a month minimum to rent a place.

We have to continue working here, and it's too far to drive it everyday, if we moved out and tried to do it that way.

As a side not. The frustrating thing about this site, is seeing the ads and posts of people who are spending 100's of 1,000s of dollars on "homesteads" and going into debt to do it. I don't see the need for a 3 or 4,000 square foot home to be built. We have no debt, and I don't want to have to borrow a penny to do this. Perhaps I am wrong in my ideology of what homesteading is all about, but, I don't think I'm the only one in this situation on here lol.


----------



## simi-steading (Sep 27, 2012)

hhhmm... 

I think what I'd do is start now on getting your utilities set up at the new place.. However, that could easily run you 10's of thousands.. .Have you priced out just the materials for a septic? Last one I put in 20 years ago ran me about 7 grand for just the materials.. .tank, pipe, rock, etc... 

Ever price out drilling a well? Hope you got shallow water.... 

For electric, I hope you got a pole on your property with a transformer and just ready to add a drop... if not, you're into more 10's of thousands.. 

Once you have all that, then I'd find me a trailer I could put on the lot and connect to the utilities... then I'd sell my place and move to the new place, then start using that money to start building..


----------



## Sturedman (Nov 18, 2012)

simi-steading said:


> hhhmm...
> 
> I think what I'd do is start now on getting your utilities set up at the new place.. However, that could easily run you 10's of thousands.. .Have you priced out just the materials for a septic? Last one I put in 20 years ago ran me about 7 grand for just the materials.. .tank, pipe, rock, etc...
> 
> ...


I have a guy who told me 2,200 for a septic. It's a small 1 bedroom house, and only needs one tank and a small leech field according to the county. The electric co-op will run the lines and wires for free once a septic and house is built. $4,000+ to do it before I am living out there lol. The neighbor who bought the other part of the farm has the well. According to the county records, they hit water at 28'. They only did a 100' well, his water is great!. It was installed in 1996. My well will be about 600 yards from where his is and the same elevation. I'm hoping I get the same results. Only a couple thousand for that as well. 

I agree with the trailer thought, but for two things. Neither of us want a trailer lol. And I have to live for another 4-5 years before social security kicks in. Not a lot of work out in that area. $3-5,000 for a used trailer, would almost frame in my house, then I have have it moved and re-route the septic and utilities. Another reason for the 3 year time frame is I can only work on it during weekends and vacations. 

But, and awesome idea under different circumstances though. It might just come down to that lol


----------



## simi-steading (Sep 27, 2012)

All I know is my wife and I make decent money, and we've been working for a year now on fixing up the house we bought.. We've been doing it only on a thousand or so a month... and it's not just the materials, but the gas for the trips to get there, then the costs of everything you need to stock there so you can survive.. all the tools and equipment you'll need... 

It's getting pretty crazy expensive as to what we kind of loosely budgeted.. I'd say we're well over three times what we figured... and things aren't getting any cheaper, rather we're finding we're more limited on time to come up with more money...


----------



## Sturedman (Nov 18, 2012)

I hear ya brother!....I scour craigslist daily looking for deals. I scavenge all I can. I'm lucky it's only about a $25 round trip there. And we have the RV I traded for off of craigslist. Lot's of baloney sandwiches and tea while working it lol. I thought I had all the tools in the world, but every weekend, I need something else. It is crazy indeed, but we are going to do it! This year we were lucky, and it was mostly just cutting and clearing the land. Next spring starts the expensive stuff lol.


----------



## simi-steading (Sep 27, 2012)

LOL.. Funny about the tools.. My wife said she figured I'd have everything we needed since I have a double car garage full... But she's come to realize you can never have enough, so every estate sale she hits she is always looking for tools she knows I don't have and calls me over to look... 

So far I've had to buy two brush cutters (already had one) two chain saws, a pole saw (gas) got a tractor given to us.. .attachments for the tractor... and the list is never ending... 

What was a real drag was having to buy eight 20 ton jacks to get a beam and wall repaired.. .Like how may times will you need that many... LOL.. 

I wish you luck... I'm sure you'll figure it out as you go along.. We have, ,and it's been going no way along the lines we've planned.. You just have to have determination.... Enough of that, and you'll get done what you need.


----------



## jwal10 (Jun 5, 2010)

I would do the work where you are, get it ready for selling since you have to live around there until you retire. Keep putting any extra money into your other property but do not borrow for anything. You have the motorhome, right. If that is good enough for now, save for and get the other things done. You probably don't need a 100' well IF you are not going to use a lot of water by minimizing the flow, BUT livestock and gardens take water....James


----------



## RonM (Jan 6, 2008)

We built a 16x32 cabin in WV and 6 guys can live in it for a time , it is one big room, I could live in it if I had closet space there.....You would be surprised to find how little space you really need to live......


----------



## TnAndy (Sep 15, 2005)

Sounds like you're not ready to move to the farm even if it was ready, due to working.

OK. Drill the well first, and get it paid off. That is your biggest crap shoot (unknown cost).

Do the septic next, and get it paid off

Now 2/3 of your basic infrastructure is in place ( electric being the last ).

Then turn to the house you live in now.....spend what you need to make it more sellable 3-4 years down the road.....do NOT spend a penny that won't return a penny ( or preferably 2 pennies )....do the basics....paint, spruce up, de-clutter, spend on kitchen/baths. 

If you say to yourself "It would be nice to have this or that", don't spend anything on those.....your plan is to sell it, and they buyer may not want your version of this or that.

Once you've gotten the house in about as tip-top a shape as it's gonna get, turn your resources back to the farm. Get a foundation in a year or so ahead of building. Buy a generator.....you said the power company won't run power until you get the house built, so you'll need a 2-5kw unit for construction work. Start shopping Craig's List or discount outlets or even Big Box stores (Lowes, HomeDepot) for deals and closeouts. I bought a whole pallet of first rate vinyl windows (average 250-300 bucks each full retail ) at HD for 50 bucks/ea.....they were meant for replacements and somebody had mis-measured them by a couple inches. Worked fine for new construction, you simply build the hole to fit the size of the window.

You have to be in the right place at the right time, but if you HAVE time, you'd be surprised at the deals you can find.


----------



## jwal10 (Jun 5, 2010)

Get your house plans figured out early so you can pickup things as you go and have them ready for when you build. Figure out where, orientation, surroundings, driveway, out buildings. Keep the house you are living in now in neutral colors, may seem plain to you but works better when you sell, stage the house with colors in the accessories when you get ready to sell....James


----------



## jwal10 (Jun 5, 2010)

You will be surprised what projects you can get done, with the money you have, one project at a time. At both places....James


----------



## Pokletu (Aug 7, 2013)

How expensive is gravel? Would people be ----ed off if I went by the lake and scooped up gravel from there? Is pointy, crushed gravel better than smooth river pebbles for the driveway and under the foundation?


----------



## Space Cowboy (Apr 26, 2008)

TnAndy has it right. I am 59 and been doing this for 5 years or so. I can't afford a house up there yet, but I live in an RV when I go to the property. First thing I started was a cherry and apple orchard and got my first harvest this year. I am also worried about when SHTF. I *could* live in the RV if I had to, but if I did, I would want as much infrastructure to support us. That's why the garden, orchard, bee's etc. You *could* live in the barn you have, if you had to.....Depends on how soon (and bad) you think things might be. Plan from there.

SC


----------



## irondale (Oct 3, 2012)

If the rental market is tight you can rent your house out when you are ready to move. Granted it won't give a big payday but will provide income over the long term, and you can always sell it if you need to.


----------



## swamp man (Dec 25, 2005)

Pokletu said:


> How expensive is gravel? Would people be ----ed off if I went by the lake and scooped up gravel from there? Is pointy, crushed gravel better than smooth river pebbles for the driveway and under the foundation?


With the materials and soil types I've been around, crushed gravel locks up and stays put waaaaay better than the round river gravel, but it's more expensive. The round stuff gets displaced and the ground swallows it.
Sturedman....Congrats on your purchase! You've gotten great advice here. Not knowing the details and all other things being equal, I would start with the well first, and put in septic, even if it's just a temporary "do it yourself" system to run your RV to. A 55 gallon drum or two connected to a coupla' lengths of perf pipe in gravel should get y'all by for quite a while, especially if the ground perks well. If electric is in the budget, it'll sure make things more comfortable and help in the construction phase. "Eyes on the prize" is a good policy, but the adventure of getting to that point is equally deserving of your enjoyment and appreciation, ya' know?....this will be a memory y'all share, so make it a good one. I think y'all will have an easier time doing so with some infrastructure in place.
An outbuilding to lock up tools and stuff so y'all don't have to haul stuff back and forth during construction might not be a bad idea, depending on your estimation of how secure from theft it would be, and would be a handy addition to the property even after your home has been completed.
Good job on the scavenging of materials...it's amazing what gets thrown away on construction sites and whatnot. We're rootin' for y'all, so keep us posted.


----------



## PorkChopsMmm (Aug 16, 2010)

TnAndy and jwal10 give good advice. 

We were in a somewhat similar spot to you -- had land and wanted to build something on it an move out. We rushed the build process and live on our offgrid homestead now. It is awesome but we would change things around in hindsight. Even though you feel your hands will be tied for a few years I think you have the time, and hopefully the patience, to put everything in its right place. Good luck.


----------



## irondale (Oct 3, 2012)

One thing I wanted to add, is that not all debt is bad. You are going to need a place to stay in-between when you sell your house and are able to finish the new one. One thing that is possible is to get a loan the last year using the paid off house as collateral and using the money to finish your build. You can then sell the house and pay off the loan. You would go into debt but it would only be for a year. You would need to do the math on the cost of moving to a rental then to your new house and the cost of rent vs the cost of a loan and interest payments.


----------



## farmgal (Nov 12, 2005)

Good Luck


----------



## am1too (Dec 30, 2009)

Sturedman said:


> Here is my situation. We live in Wheeling, WV and both work. We bought our 10 acres about an hour away. The only thing that came with the property was a gorgeous barn. We are not converting the barn into a house. We are building our own small house. I need to run electric, do a well and & septic and build the house. We have no savings, since we spent that on the property. I will be 57 next May. In August, we paid off the house. It is not worth a lot of money, and we didn't pay a lot for it. It is very liveable, and will turn a nice profit when we sell hopefully.
> 
> The house is in decent shape, no leaks, newer windows central air and heat. It needs a lot of cosmetic type of work, and a new kitchen. I could sell it right now for what I've got in it, but we aren't prepared to move anywhere, and can't live on the property until we have enough saved to live on until social security kicks in.
> 
> ...


Don't borrow money!!!!


----------



## Sturedman (Nov 18, 2012)

I absolutely refuse to borrow money for this! I think with hard work, bartering and scouring deals I can do this. I just found a company that handles the disposal of old utility poles. The cost of taking them to the landfill is too expensive now. They cut the good ones into 8' sections and give them away. They will even deliver them to my house here, and each trip out to the property I can fill up the trailer and take them with me. I offered to pay for their gas to take them out to the property. They will take a couple of hundred out there for me. Talk about the best fence posts lol. 

This summer we will have saved enough money to drill the well, and maybe do the septic. In the RV I have a 5,000 watt generator, and I bought a 3,500 watt generator to have as well. The projects at the house we live in are being put on hold, so we can concentrate on the homestead. 

In February we are having the driveway stone and culvert delivered and put down. By the end of 2014, we should have the shell completed on the house. If plans go as we hope!


----------



## fishhead (Jul 19, 2006)

One thing you can do to reduce construction cost is to watch the lumber stores for windows or trusses someone ordered and then backed out of or close outs. Sometimes the price difference is huge.


----------



## K.B. (Sep 7, 2012)

Sounds like you are in a good position with some good options... 

Couple questions - are you comfortable that the area you will be building in will allow for a slow construction project without theft/vandalism? If you expect the economy/civ to go belly-up, do you have a plan to provide for yourselves on the new property without SS?

It sounds like you will be living/working in town for at least several more years. It may be worthwhile to hold off on the major construction and just get the infrastructure in place until you can live there in a temp structure. I'm doing a slow build on our own place while living in town (only a few miles away) and the prospect of vandalism/theft is a major concern of mine.

I am also using the years that the process is taking to build up the infrastructure for animal feed, orchard, bees, etc...

Best of luck with the project!


----------



## Sturedman (Nov 18, 2012)

K.B. said:


> Sounds like you are in a good position with some good options...
> 
> Couple questions - are you comfortable that the area you will be building in will allow for a slow construction project without theft/vandalism? If you expect the economy/civ to go belly-up, do you have a plan to provide for yourselves on the new property without SS?
> 
> ...


We've been lucky so far with theft. The RV, mowers, tools etc that is out there haven't been messed with in the last year. I am out at random times, as is my neighbor who is building. That's just the chance I have to take though. I have the big barn to lock things in to keep honest people from taking them. The whole project should take 3 years or less, then we will live there full time. 

As far as if I have a plan in case there is and economic collapse and no SS income, then yes, this is the plan. This is the main reason for doing it lol. I plan on it not happening, but at the same time I have to be preparing in case it does. In 3 years we will have a somewhat established orchard, a well established garden, chickens and a couple of cows and goats. 

Thanks


----------



## bentleywarren (Dec 8, 2013)

I am in a somewhat similar situation. Fifteen + years ago I bought some land with no improvements of any kind. Over the last few years, I have been starting the "build" process. My first task was to get electricity installed. My next step was to drill a well (280 feet ). Along the way, I bought gravel and a cattle guard crossing, and hired dozer work to put in a road and level a house site.

I then set up an old travel trailer which allows me to have a place to get out of the weather when I am there. Fortunately, I live only a few miles from the land, so I can drive home every day to my house. Last summer, I started building a shop building which will give me a place to store my tools, and a place to operate saws, welders, drills, whatever, etc when I start working on my house. This fall and winter, I have been working on a fence that will enclose a few acres that will eventually be a garden for vegetables and fruits. I am having to make it deer-proof and feral hog-proof. 

As of now, I have a lot of money sunk into the place, with not a lot to show for it. I just consider the investments so far to be a necessary part of infrastructure. I am doing everything possible by myself, to reduce the cost. I have supplied 99% of the labor for the shop building and the fence, I spread the gravel on the road with my tractor, and I cleared the right-of-way for the electrical lines with a chain saw. If I had hired everything done, the cost would have been prohibitive.

My philosophy has been one day at a time, one step at a time, water and electricity first, outbuildings next, and house eventually. I hope I live long enough to see it all come to completion.


----------

