# Feeding sheep to LGD?



## redroving (Sep 28, 2005)

I was dumbfounded today when the owner of the commercial flock, ~200 mixed sheep with almost ready to wean lambs at their side that is grazing on an alfalfa field next to my land, gave a ~70 lb lamb to his LGD. We had just gotten home and I noticed his pickup out in the field and got out the binoculars to check. I did not see if it had died naturally or he killed it but he was standing with the LGD and a herding dog and he bent over and I realized I could see sheep feet. The guy hacked off a front leg and walked away and the LGD happily layed down and started feasting. The guy then tossed the leg into the back of his pickup and the herding dog jumped in and they drove off. The LGD has been guarding her meal all day long. Is this what commercial owners feed their LGD's?? 

About two years ago this same commercial flock owner had rotated his pregnant ewes through all the alfalfa fields near me around January/Feb. Each week as he changed pasture there was a dead ewe. Sometimes we noticed the ewe had been chewed on. We did witness a ewe tipped onto her side and unable to get up but we couldn't go to help due to the LGD standing guard at the fence. We had no way of contacting the owner and the next day the ewe was dead. I have figured that it was the cause of death of most of those ewes. He does not have a shepherd to watch over these sheep but checks on them once a week. I bet he writes off these sheep deaths as predation.
Sometimes you wonder what is going on with their thought process when they think it is acceptable to lose a sheep a week (especially one that was about to give birth).


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## Looking4ewes (Apr 30, 2006)

Lambs are priced so high these days, that it would be unheard of to butcher a lamb for dog food. The lamb most likely died on its own. Lambs are known for that. As for the ewes, they most likely died of bloat eating up that alfalfa. Sheep seem to invent ways to die.


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## Wolf Flower (Dec 21, 2005)

redroving said:


> The guy hacked off a front leg and walked away and the LGD happily layed down and started feasting. The guy then tossed the leg into the back of his pickup and the herding dog jumped in and they drove off. The LGD has been guarding her meal all day long. Is this what commercial owners feed their LGD's??


A lot of people feed their LGDs cull animals. It doesn't give them a "taste" for killing or anything. Some LGDs will take care of any dead animals they come across. My LGD guards goats and poultry, and I regularly feed him whole chickens with the feathers, head, and feet still attached. He won't touch live poultry.

Chasing and killing prey, and eating dead food, are two different things in the dog's mind.


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## Laurie J (Mar 9, 2005)

Wow! I still wouldn't do it, and I know my Great Pyrenees wouldn't eat it! It doesn't occur to her that dead animals are food! We had a chicken drown last winter, the same day that a lamb died. With the ground frozen solid, my husband put them in a 5 gallon bucket in the barn to bury when it thawed. Our Great Pyrenees took them out, laid them out before her and stood guard. I swear she had tears in her eyes!


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## mekasmom (Jan 19, 2010)

Laurie J said:


> I know my Great Pyrenees wouldn't eat it!


You might be surprised. I use to feed Meka the dead chickens and rabbits all the time. And she slept with the rabbits in the rabbit shed. 

LGDs have such a unique way of thinking. I watched my male play with a strange dog last week, and wondered why he didn't chase it away. Then, some of his flock came near the area, and this same dog who was wagging his tail actually playing with another dog turned into Cujo and attacked his friend. It's like they can turn instantly when ever they feel they need to protect.


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## melco (May 7, 2006)

Dont mean to hijack but curious. Yesterday when I was making lunch and I was taking meat off of split chicken breasts, all natural ones. I almost gave the bone and what was left portion (uncooked) to my girls as a treat , but then I didnt because I wondered if it would give them a taste. So, would it be ok to give them my raw scraps out of my kitchen in the future? I dont want to make them food aggressive, right now I can touch, take, and play with their food while they eat. I surely dont want to give them a taste for chicken, rabbit and whatever else we have around here.

Laurie
Your story is really sad but I am hoping that is how our Great Pyrs will turn out. So far they ar sooo sweet but still young. Will they stay as sweet as they are right now?
Melco


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## mekasmom (Jan 19, 2010)

melco said:


> So, would it be ok to give them my raw scraps out of my kitchen in the future? I dont want to make them food aggressive,


The meat wouldn't affect them at all. It wasn't in feather, and didn't resemble the bird anyway.
I've never seen a food aggressive LGD, at least not food aggression aimed at a human. I do know they can be food aggressive to each other with resource guarding, but I've never seen one be aggressive to their owners ever. I do know when you hand feed them treats, you need to drop the food and get out of the way because they do grab food with a snap, but it's not aggression, just big teeth and jaws. It's something you learn you try to teach them sit, lay or whatever then give them a piece of cheese. You drop the food instead of letting them take it from your fingers. And they won't do it unless you offer food because they just don't train well.


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## melco (May 7, 2006)

Thanks Mekasmon for the response. I am glad to know I can feed them my scraps in the future. I am also glad to hear this with food aggression, we had a Chi whom was VERY food aggressive and I realize they are very different breeds but I surely didnt want an issue with a dog the size these girls will be. So far like I said nothing but they are still young and I dont want to mess them up in any way. We are loving our Great Pyrs, at 12 weeks they are already showing signs of how wonderful of a dog they will be. We love them sooooo much. So sweet. Okay I know this is not my thread just love my girls, sorry.
Melco


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## Wolf Flower (Dec 21, 2005)

Laurie J said:


> Wow! I still wouldn't do it, and I know my Great Pyrenees wouldn't eat it! It doesn't occur to her that dead animals are food! We had a chicken drown last winter, the same day that a lamb died. With the ground frozen solid, my husband put them in a 5 gallon bucket in the barn to bury when it thawed. Our Great Pyrenees took them out, laid them out before her and stood guard.


My Akbash will do the same thing. He sometimes waits a couple of days to eat dead animals... just to make sure they are dead, I guess! But he does eat them eventually.

My GSD, on the other hand, will not eat any fresh raw meat we have raised here. I'll give her chicken quarters from the store, and she gobbles them like there's no tomorrow. But the first time I handed her a chicken carcass that I butchered here, she refused to touch it. I even tried burying it with store chicken. Nope--she picked out all the store chicken, and left the home-butchered chicken in her bowl.

She is getting better about it, after watching the Akbash do it, and will sometimes be cajoled into eating the meat after it's been sitting for a few days.


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## Wolf Flower (Dec 21, 2005)

melco said:


> I surely dont want to give them a taste for chicken, rabbit and whatever else we have around here.


Like I said before, in a dog's mind, there is a difference between chasing and killing prey, and eating animals that are already dead. Giving them raw chicken or rabbit will not cause them to become chicken or rabbit killers if they aren't already. As I said, I give my Akbash whole dead chickens, feathers and all. He will not touch live chickens. My GSD won't touch our chickens whether alive OR dead, though she will eat store-bought raw chicken.


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## Fowler (Jul 8, 2008)

no way could I feed my LGD's what they are suppose to gaurd...


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## ozark_jewels (Oct 7, 2005)

There is certainly a difference between live and dead and the dogs know it. I feed my LGDs and yard dogs straight raw. They get deer, beef, goat, lamb, chicken, duck, goose, rabbit, etc.
They also sit around in a respectful ring and watch me butcher my own lamb and goat. They get that days meal fresh, warm and bloody. They also get the head, legs, entrails, and hide to eat, chew and play with. When all thats left is bone, I burn it. They never touch a live animal.
Goats kid in the barn with them and they sometimes help clean kids. Older kids jump all over the prone LGDs and only if they get too rambunctious on top of a sleeping LGD do they get warned off with a growl. Calves are born in their pastures all the time. They are safe.
They know the difference.


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## ozark_jewels (Oct 7, 2005)

Fowler said:


> no way could I feed my LGD's what they are suppose to gaurd...


Thats what I said ten years ago before I knew better. Then I researched and really talked to those who know.
One of the LGDs original jobs was to eat animals that had died in the herd/flock, to keep it from enticing predators in close to the herd.
They so know the difference.


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## barefootflowers (Jun 3, 2010)

I've been curious about this too. I have a 2 year old Maremma. I had been feeding her raw rabbit and once in a while a dead kid/goat. Then, we started losing occassional kids in the pasture. We never saw her do it, but it worried me. Then our ewe's lamb ended up mostly eaten in the field. On the one hand, we didn't see her deliver it, so it could have already been dead & in that case I would want our LGD do clean it up. But...so for now we've moved the dog out of the field with the pregnant ewes. So far we haven't lost any more lambs. I'm conflicted over this because the purpose of having the dog is to protect the livestock. If I can't have her in with the lambs and pregnant ewes then she isn't doing the job I need to have done. Has anyone else had this issue? And sorry if I'm hijacking- I can start a new thread if I need to.


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## YuccaFlatsRanch (May 3, 2004)

My anatolians like a clean pasture. They will "clean up" whatever needs cleaning to include afterbirth, stillborn or dead babies, whatever. I am sure this is to keep them from attracting predators/scavengers. I have only had an anatolian kill a lamb for food once and that was by a young male who was being prevented from eating by a dominate female. After a week or so of not getting to eat (and before I realized what was going on) he finally took matters into his own hand. Its the only time I have ever had an anatolian voluntarily kill a sheep or a goat.


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## Fowler (Jul 8, 2008)

I understand feeding raw to your Lgd'S...I personally cant do it. I would only do it if the SHTF and I had too. I couldnt stomach it...I know..I'm weak....I too have done a ton of research and I just cant...it does not feel right to me


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## Laurie J (Mar 9, 2005)

I can understand everyone's position, and I think one thing we all agree on is that this is a really outstanding breed of dog! We have a 7 year old Great Pryenees female and a 7 week old pup (both female). Terrific dogs, and we'll never, ever be without one! I am also happy that all the dogs involved on this post are doing what they were bred to do...guarding livestock. My daughter showed me a Great Pyrenees site on Facebook, and ALL of them were shown lying on beds and being house pets! Can't even imagine doing that to a livestock guardian dog!


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## Wolf Flower (Dec 21, 2005)

Fowler said:


> I understand feeding raw to your Lgd'S...I personally cant do it. I would only do it if the SHTF and I had too. I couldnt stomach it...I know..I'm weak....I too have done a ton of research and I just cant...it does not feel right to me


I understand what you're saying. Remember, if you give your dogs meat from the store or even kibble, you're still feeding them dead animals. It's just been sanitized for your emotional protection. 

What do you do when you get a dead lamb? Bury it? I've (thankfully) never had the experience of a dead kid, and I hope I never do, but odds are I'm going to have to deal with it at some point. I confess, it would be difficult for me to butcher it... but being of a frugal mindset, I wouldn't feel right about letting perfectly good meat go to waste. It might be easier for me to simply hand it to my LGD, walk away, and let him deal with it.


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## chrisntiff (Nov 27, 2004)

We feed our LGD plenty of raw meat and a lot of it resembles what it was. She knows the difference. She will also wait patiently on butcher days for her reward for all her hard work.


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## Fowler (Jul 8, 2008)

Wolf Flower said:


> I understand what you're saying. Remember, if you give your dogs meat from the store or even kibble, you're still feeding them dead animals. It's just been sanitized for your emotional protection.
> 
> What do you do when you get a dead lamb? Bury it? I've (thankfully) never had the experience of a dead kid, and I hope I never do, but odds are I'm going to have to deal with it at some point. I confess, it would be difficult for me to butcher it... but being of a frugal mindset, I wouldn't feel right about letting perfectly good meat go to waste. It might be easier for me to simply hand it to my LGD, walk away, and let him deal with it.


Our freezer is full of deer meat, wild pigs, etc...I dont have the heart to eat my sheep..nor let my dogs. It's just me. My husbands just looks at me funny and shakes his head.
I've had one still born...and one ewe bloat due to eating wheat straw bedding..(I'll never do that again)....I have the National grasslands by my farm...I haul them over there and let nature take it course.


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## CarolT (Mar 12, 2009)

I read that search and rescue dogs can track the scent of a person but can't find the body if the person is dead. Cadaver dogs are trained to find dead people and have trouble trying to find live ones. Apparently, there's a lot of difference between live and dead smell.


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## Ross (May 9, 2002)

I have plenty of reservations about LGD's but their ability to tell live animals from meat isn't one of them. Particularly when it's been fed by the stock manager. There's a huge difference between hunting and scavenging anyhow.


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## FoxyWench (Jan 22, 2010)

i was going to say exactly what ozark said...
in their origional countries, in thier origonal floks part of the job of being a LGD is to "clean up" the pasture...
that is, eat any dead lambs and adults, and clean up afterbirths...

but eating the deads and cleaning up the afterbirths keeps the flock safe.

i feed my dogs (not lgd's) and cat raw occasionally...(eventually full time but i dont have freezer space right now)
they eat whole quail, but dont even consider my parrot or keets dinner...
they eat chicken, but never even attempt to chase the chickens...
my cat gets fish, but hasnt tried fishing in my fish tank yet, she also gets quail and yet she literally grooms my parrot and is terrified of my parakeets...

most dogs do not equate food raw with live one day will be food raw...
a lgd even more so...
a live sheep is a live sheep and will be guarded...a dead sheep is a threat to his flock and will be properly disposed of...and since dogs cant weild shovels that generally means dinner time!


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## Shrarvrs88 (May 8, 2010)

I had a pitt/lab cross. I taught him to leave the rabbits alone, and he would la there and let them climb all over him. But I fed him any dead ones, no problem.


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