# Which wormer should I use on pregnant does?



## Lada (Jun 7, 2008)

Unfortunately, I am needing to worm my pregnant does. I know this is not ideal, but I feel it's not healthy for them to carry their current worm load, AND babies. Should I be using Cydectin? I intended to worm with this the day they kid, but I've heard mixed feelings about using it during pregnancy. 

What about the Ivomec Plus? I have always shied away from Ivomec. I don't think we're in a resistant area, but I don't want to take any chances. However, if it's safer during pregnancy, I'd rather go that route.

Thanks!


----------



## manygoatsnmore (Feb 12, 2005)

I have used ivermectin during pregnancy with no ill effects.


----------



## hoofinitnorth (Oct 18, 2006)

It depends on what parasites you are trying to evacuate.


----------



## PurpleMartineer (Apr 12, 2008)

I posted this at dairygoatinfo.com and got this response from Vicki. Keep in mind I dont know exactly how far along my doe is. I am trying to hit HC and liverfluke. I hope its ok to cut and paste this info between sites: 

Since you know she as at least 60 days bred, then I would wait 40 more days and then use Ivermectin Plus...1cc per 30 pounds orally on both the goats. What I would do right now is worm them both with Cydectin. Although Ivermectin plus will kill the 4th stage of HC it will not kill HC only liverflukes and cool weather worms and lice etc.....While your Cydectin will get the HC and other blood sucking stomach worms, which are really not active right now anyway with the cold.


----------



## Lada (Jun 7, 2008)

So is she saying to basically wait until 100 days bred to use the ivermectin? But cydectin is o.k. to use past 60 days? My girls were bred mid-october, so they're 60 days, but not yet 100.


----------



## Vicki McGaugh TX Nubians (May 6, 2002)

Lada optiminally you would have wanted to have them come into breeding season with a fecal showing little to no worm eggs that bother you, here it's HC. You have to go by anemia charts, checking eyelids (we have the FAMACHA anemia chart up on goatkeeping 101 at dairygoatinfo.com) during the winter since you rarely see eggs in fecal of HC during the winter, they are warm weather worms. Plus you never see larve which the arrested larve of HC are. 

So yes I would worm your goats with Cydectin. Then if you have problems with liverflukes or/and lungworms like we do here than use your Ivermectin Plus (the plus is the flukeicide that gets the liverflukes) 1cc per 30 pounds...since I don't test for lungworm and my girlfriend who does uses Ivermectin plus at 1cc per 25 pound 3 times, 10 days apart...you can choose which one to listen to. Then yes the day my does kid they get Cydectin.

For me the only time I can use this wormer for liverfluke is during the dry period, as it's mlk withdrawal is long, over 20 days.

You idealy don't want to use anything, wormer or not, the first 13 to 26 days, the numbers change all the time depending upon the source, which is how long implantation takes of the fetus into the uterus. Chemcials before this time, including wormwood can make the babies not implant. 

You will be guessing and listening to others about how to do stuff like this until you learn to fecal. It is not a daunting as you may think. Vicki


----------



## susanne (Nov 4, 2004)

if you see anemia in the wintertime, it is not from haemonchus but something else. copperdeficiency can give you anemic goat as well. there are no bloodsucking adult worms this time of the year. the arrested larvae doesn't do any damage but if you missed pre-breeding parasite check, the larvae can molt into adult prior to kidding and start laying eggs. that is really the time it becomes dangerous for your pasture raised goats and why you should worm the day they are kidding. with due dates, i worm about a week to ten days before kidding and a again the day they kid. 
after that only after fecal check. 
know the parasite you are dealing with.


----------



## Vicki McGaugh TX Nubians (May 6, 2002)

I just meant since she said she needed to worm...she could have came into the cold season with anemia already. 

You don't see HC in the winter because you only see eggs on fecal. Adult worms can still suck blood during the winter. Vicki


----------



## susanne (Nov 4, 2004)

_You don't see HC in the winter because you only see eggs on fecal. Adult worms can still suck blood during the winter. _

Huh????????

no fecal will show HC eggs because there will be none in winter in our climate.
certain factors (temperature and light) lead to development of L3 larvae that leads to hypobiosis (arrested stage) in the host and secure the surviving of it's kind. change in hormones through kidding and chemical change in the body from fresh greens signals the larvae that condition have changed and developing in adult will be completed.
the adult worm dies after a couple of weeks and that is why there is no bloodsucking adult this time of the year.
a healthy goat should have built up the hemoglobin by now and she should no longer show anemia.


----------



## Vicki McGaugh TX Nubians (May 6, 2002)

So who did you copy that from Susanne, Karin? And the last posts on this subject you said there was no such thing as arrested larve (stage).....HUHHH???..... so which is it. Do you even worm for HC to even know any of this? 

Please stop posting after me to correct something you dont' even know anything about. 

Why don't you just answer her, instead of me...what wormer should she use? Happy New Year and I mean that sincerely....

Vicki


----------



## betsy h. (Sep 28, 2008)

Vets across the country are recommending using a double shot of wormer- an avermectin product (Ivermectin, Moxidectin aka Cydectin, Doramectin, etc.) and a 'white wormer' benzemadole Synanthic, Valbazen, Safegard). In some areas, depending on weather conditions, it is being recommended to use three different wormers. This info comes from goat vets who have attended a conference about parasites in goats- I can put you in touch with a friend of mine who attended. And the one person whom I will listen to above all others in my area is parasitologist Dr. Sharon Patton at UT Knoxville.

When I do the mid-winter herd work, I use injectable Cydectin @ the rate of 1ml per 50lbs. as per Paulette at Tri-Quest boers and Valbazen 'if' they are over 60 days bred. If not, I use Pyrantel Pamoate (Strongid). Every goat on the place gets this treatment. I inject the Cydectin sub-cue, behind the elbow and have '0' problems.


----------



## susanne (Nov 4, 2004)

Vicki McGaugh TX Nubians said:


> So who did you copy that from Susanne, Karin? And the last posts on this subject you said there was no such thing as arrested larve (stage).....HUHHH???..... so which is it. Do you even worm for HC to even know any of this?
> 
> Please stop posting after me to correct something you dont' even know anything about.
> 
> ...


keep my name out of your mouth. before you post, read up and post correct and i don't need to post after you.
and happy new year to you and your familly too


----------



## Vicki McGaugh TX Nubians (May 6, 2002)

susanne 
Nubian dairy goat breeder Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: michigan
Posts: 2,500 

if i do fecal check the whole year round and not only in winter, i know what kind of parasites i have and what to deal with. there is no such thing as parasites in hibernation that just don't show up in winter. in case they are smarter in other parts of the country, there is still the possibility to check inner eyelids and look at the condition of the goats.
just know your goats 
__________________
Susanne Stuetzler
Ain-ash-shams
Nubian Dairy Goats

please visit us at
http://www.ain-ash-shams.net 
.........................................................

This is just one of the posts that contradicts the post you wrote in this thread...that was obviously written by someone else and you copied it into your thread. I don't have time to find the other one which was once again that there is no such thing as arrested larve.

That's where we are different Susanne, you have to go look it up to post, I dont' post unless I have personal experience with it...or I tell them I am guessing or it's opinon. Vicki


----------



## Lada (Jun 7, 2008)

Well, I sent my fecal off to the vet. I've done them a couple of times myself, and have been sending them off just to keep me honest, since I'm a newbie. This time, I didn't do them myself, just sent them away. The vet tech said stomach worms, which made me kind of wrinkle my nose, as I thought those would be dormant this time of year. I do have some concerns about anemia, and have boosted their copper. I also feel they're too thin, and I've added some grain and BOSS to see if I can get a little more fat on them. We will see. I may just worm with the cydectin and/or go ahead and do the fecal myself as well...to keep THEM honest this time. 

Thanks, everyone.


----------



## GratefulFarms (Jan 1, 2009)

I'm trying to figure out the same thing. I've got 2 possible pregnant angora does. I've had a meat goat farm owner tell me to use cydectin. (sp?) My husband read up on it; need to know info about the safety of using something intended for topical aka pour-on use, putting it through the digestive system of a goat. HMMM?? Well, if it's aromatic, it likely contains a solvent. Enough to kill the animal and more than likely the baby, if pregnant if dosed enough. It causes severe nerve damage and blindness. The stuff is in paint thinners. No wonder it kills worms. One article says the pg does will abort 12-24hrs later. YIKES!! :lookout: 

Verify this for yourself:

http://www.greenspun.com/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg.tcl?msg_id=007q0s
http://www.eveningstarfarm.com/cydectin.htm

So, listen to your heart folks. Would you ingest a solvent?:angel:

I must clarify, I'm reading that the injectable cydectin has different results, but they still don't give it to preg does or babies.

So, is there a KNOWN safe way to worm the pregnant goats?? Just goats in general? If there's a homeopathic way, that is best. I'd love to know if I can use a plant to rid worms. Call me a hippy. If its truly natural, I feel that's the way I'll go. If it's on the earth, the earth will provide a natural remedy.

At very least, I'd like a safe remedy. 

Please, do the research yourself. Type into a ask.com the subject of your need and possible remedy BEFORE you use it on your goats, see what comes up. I'm so glad I did.

I'm a newbie goat owner, so when I find out, Lada, I'll be sure to let you know.

On our toes,

Grateful Farms


----------



## susanne (Nov 4, 2004)

Vicki McGaugh TX Nubians said:


> this is why you need to post what your moderators are using???? yeah, i do not have time to post that either LOL
> get a grip vicki.
> i do not copy post other peoples post.
> 
> before it ends in a cat fight again, this is my last post to this topic.


----------



## GratefulFarms (Jan 1, 2009)

Fantastic Info on Chemical and Herbal Worming:
http://fiascofarm.com/goats/wormers.htm#herbal


----------



## togg75 (Nov 28, 2008)

I went to the vet last night and he suggested I use panacur.....said it was safe for my preggo does. 250lb dose for each and repeat in 2 weeks.


----------



## betsy h. (Sep 28, 2008)

Safegard aka Panacur (Fenbendazole) is like pouring water on their backs in my area. Vets are not usually aware of this. 

I get a tube of Strongid (Pyrantel Pamoate) for horses, give a 3x by weight single dose to the goat. Pyrantel Pamoate is SAFE for pregnant animals. And it works. Jeffers has an off brand product that works just the same as the name brand product for a lot less cost. I buy a dozen at a time and use on all my animals here- goats, dogs, cats, etc.

I've seen the Ft. Dodge vet speak about pour on Cydectin=- use it orally folks. It can cause neural damage and death if poured on. I used it for years until I changed to injectable, which I inject sub-cue.

Also, Injectable Cydectin is safe for all stages of age in goats -I have never had a problem- pregnant does, old goats, 35lb. babies. I dose at 1ml per 50lbs. like you would injectable Ivermectin.

Contact Dr. Sharon Patton at UTK if you still have questions. [email protected]


----------



## wigg (Sep 20, 2008)

I have raised boers for 8 or 9 years now. I finally gave up on what every one else was doing and took the advice of a real goat vet. I use injectible ivomec and do inject it. I give my larger does (150 lbs) 2.5 cc's. Anything over a hundred, I give 2 cc's. I only worm when I see anemia in the eye lids and after kidding, and I don't worry what stage of pregnancy they are in. This routine has worked well for me in Central Illinois weather conditions for the last 5 years.


----------



## dosthouhavemilk (Oct 29, 2004)

I've been using Cydectin because I brought in some nasty new worms when I brought ina small herd a few years back. It brought everything under control here.
I've used Cydectin on does in most stages of pregnancy, inclduing a doe who was wormed and then put with the buck. She delivered two very large, healthy buck kids five months later.
The breeding herd numbers over 75 at this point. We've never had any problems with using Cydectin Pour-On dosed orally in the gaots at 1cc/22 pounds.
On one of the Boer lists they are worming with Cydectin at 1cc/10 pounds in Texas. Their goats don't drop over dead, so it seems to have a bit of a safety net as far as overdosing.
I don't fecal, so do with it what you will. I'm just pointing out that it does not kill/deform fetuses, or goats...at least in my experience over the the last couple of years on a couple of hundred head of goats.


----------



## hoofinitnorth (Oct 18, 2006)

I've said it before but it bears repeating: IMO, it is unsafe to use a topical chemical orally. IMO, there is no reason to use a topical de-wormer orally, especially in the case of a chemical like moxidectin (often sold as Cydectin), which does come in an oral formula. It is not worth the cost savings, to me.

I do know one gal locally who has recently had trouble with Cydectin. She reported that she used it as directed for many years, as a pour-on. One of her bucks, who had been treated with this chemical using this method in the past with no apparent problems, was horribly burned by the product. This was within the last year and she did not report any other damage to the rest of her herd. Just an anecdote but it does make you wonder why it suddenly bothered this buck and what if that had been an internal issue rather than an external one.


----------



## susanne (Nov 4, 2004)

this topical is designed with the cow hide in mind and not for the thin sensitive skin of the goats. i don't want to use it as a topical but still wondering what effect it really has long term if given orally.
i think i saw one research where they said cydectin pour on it is stored in the body fat.


----------



## jordan (Nov 29, 2006)

I know people have used the pour-on orally with success, but I have never understood WHY it would even occur to them to pour a flamable solvent down their goats throat though. 
I would not use the pour-on as a pour-on for goats simply because their skin is different from a cow's hide. Cydectin injectable works just fine when given sub-Q.
I would be very curious to know if those that have been using the pour-on orally for a few years have had necropsies done and specificly looked for any possible effects of it internally?
Lois


----------



## goatsareus (Jun 23, 2007)

jordan said:


> I would be very curious to know if those that have been using the pour-on orally for a few years have had necropsies done and specificly looked for any possible effects of it internally?
> 
> Lois



I have asked this question before on this forum, and the answer I received was.....no.


----------



## jordan (Nov 29, 2006)

goatsareus said:


> I have asked this question before on this forum, and the answer I received was.....no.


That's kind of what I figured...
Lois


----------

