# Sticky  Building your own hive bodies.



## alleyyooper

For starters I will say that building your own hives and other wooden ware only saves money in the shipping. Where I live I have to drive over 7 hours to reach a supplier, or pay the shipping rates.
For my deeps I buy 1"x12"x8' boards at Home depot for $11.75 now. 4 of these boards makes 5 deeps. It takes me about an hour to cut all the parts out for five hive bodies and since I am retired I rather enjoy the wood working. There fore I count that time as relaxtion time much as some one does fishing for example.

Sizes for deeps. Others Mediuims and shallows only differ in how tall they are.

Step (1. Cut the board down to a width of 9 5/8" keep the resulting strip of wood for other projects Like outer cover rims.

Step (2. Cut the hive bodies out, the sides are 19 7/8" long, the front and backs are 16 1/4"

Step (3. install the dado blade on the table saw and cut the frame rest on the fronts and backs. The frame rest I cut 3/4" deep since I install a metal rest that raises it back up 1/8", leave a 3/8" outer lip.



















 Al


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## alleyyooper

I built a dado sled to cut the finger joints used on the hive bodies. The two rails ride in the mider jig slots of the table saw.

Bottom view.









top view.









Do a test cut to make sure you are cutting the slots 3/4" deep.










Step (4. Start with the front and backs place a spacer block over the finger and cut all the first fingers (remember to cut both ends the same).
****Note always flip the panal 180degrees so the slots line up.










Step (5. Remove the spacer then cut all the rest of the joints.










Step (6. Cut all the joints in the side panals ****Note always flip the panal 180degrees so the slots line up.










I do a test fit then drill all the holes for the nails. I also use glue in the assembly.










 Al


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## btai

while certainly not as strong a joint as the finger joints, I just use the dado to make a rabbet joint for the sides. It's less end grain exposed, so I figure it lasts a little longer...plus it's a little easier(my carpentry skills are lacking )

After buying lots of Home Depot cull wood, I ended up finding a sawmill with air-dried pine for about 1/3 the price of HD's regular 1 x's. There is probably one closeby where you could find some good deals. I just find that I have to cut and assemble the boxes within a few days to avoid warping.


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## alleyyooper

The Dadoed butt joints work fine, but after so many years they do become looser than the finger joints. They can be reglued nailed again to tighten them up.
If the hives are repainted or stained to begin with the end grain is sealed and not exposed.
Not many saw mills in this area of farms. They certinally don't do any pine lumber as it has to be trucked from many miles away. They do mostly Oak, Maple and since a lot of Ash is dieing due to the Ash bore they are cutting a lot of it for handles and such.

 Al


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## Hee Haw

Thanks Al, for going through this step by step,I think I can do this, and I don't have a lot of experence with wood working.With your great pictures and steps,even a child could understand this.Thanks for simplfing.


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## btai

Again, pardon my woodworking ignorance, but is the regular table blade larger than the dado blades & chippers? I was wondering if you can rip & dado out the frame rest at the same time, cutting out a step


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## alleyyooper

I use the same with dado to do the frame rest as the finger joints. Problem is the height is differen't. Some thing like 3/8 inch for the frame rest and 3/4 inch for the finger joint. I do the frame rest first then do the finger joints as the next step.
PS I also use a rather cheap dado set, some thing like $30.00. I have seen them cheaper at habor freight since I bought mine.

 Al


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## Philbee

Thank you Alleyyooper for the great photos and information on how you do the dado cuts for your beehives. I am learning a little about working with wood and I appreciate the information that you are sharing. 

Best wishes, -------- Philbee


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## deaconjim

I have seen someone online that builds hives using 3/4" exterior plywood. Any thoughts on these? The link to their webpage is:

http://beesupply.com/shop/about.php


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## alleyyooper

Just did some quick math so I could be off a bit but a 4x8 sheet of ply wood would leave over 5" of waste on the side. and over 4" inches on the ends when cutting out a deep. A 1x12x8 leaves 2.5 inches on the sides (I use this to make top cover frames.) and a bit over 5 inches plus one extra piece 19 7/8 inches on the end(I have used this to make handles for the hives.). 
So 4 1x12x8's will make 5 deep hive bodies. Lowes now is selling them for $8.50 each, $34.00 and labor for 5 deeps isn't all bad Way I figure it. 

 Al


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## sustainablesam

Has anyone tried using a drawer lock router bit to make the joints for hive bodies. These bits are in the Rockler catalog on pg.133. For $37 it looks like a cost effective, easy solution for a strong joint(i think) because it looks like it creates a lot of surface area for the glue to bite and you can still use nails.

Am i missing anything here?


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## chuckhole

Soapbox time. Nails are the least desirable method for connecting wood together. More gluing surface and clamping pressure will produce the longest lasting joints. Given the time, patience and a dovetail jig, the glued locking dovetail will produce the strongest joint for the hive bodies.

The box joint using a stacked dado blade is my second choice. Either way, you want to maximize the gluing surface. I grew up using nails for everything and have now totally reversed my way of thinking. I have been watching the Yankee Workshop and WoodWorks on DIY too much I think.


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## dogger

Hello All,
I am going to be getting some bee's this spring and found this site again after a few years absence, and found this topic and the pictures are dead  Is it possible that you might be finding a new host site for them??

Thanks for your time

dogger


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## alleyyooper

I'll see if I can find the pictures and redo them. Imagestation no longer host pictures.

 Al


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## dogger

alleyyooper said:


> I'll see if I can find the pictures and redo them. Imagestation no longer host pictures.
> 
> Al


I'd appreciated it, thank you very much 
like your tag line


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## alleyyooper

Sizes for deeps. Others Mediuims and shallows only differ in how tall they are.

Step (1. Cut the board down to a width of 9 5/8" keep the resulting strip of wood for other projects Like outer cover rims.

Step (2. Cut the hive bodies out, the sides are 19 7/8" long, the front and backs are 16 1/4"

Step (3. install the dado blade on the table saw and cut the frame rest on the fronts and backs. The frame rest I cut 3/4" deep since I install a metal rest that raises it back up 1/8", leave a 3/8" outer lip.



















 Al


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## alleyyooper

I built a dado sled to cut the finger joints used on the hive bodies. The two rails ride in the mider jig slots of the table saw.

Bottom view.









top view.









Do a test cut to make sure you are cutting the slots 3/4" deep.









Step (4. Start with the front and backs place a spacer block over the finger and cut all the first fingers (remember to cut both ends the same).
****Note always flip the panal 180degrees so the slots line up.









Step (5. Remove the spacer then cut all the rest of the joints.









Step (6. Cut all the joints in the side panals ****Note always flip the panal 180degrees so the slots line up.









I do a test fit then drill all the holes for the nails. I also use glue in the assembly.









 Al


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## dogger

Thank You Sir
I like that sled jig


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## alleyyooper

Your welcome.

 Al


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## Drizler

I use locally sawed planks and 2 by for nearly everything I do nowdays. Quite a bit cheaper, support the local working slob and in many cases cash and carry avoiding that 8 percent stolen by NY:rock:. All I do if I want them nice is give them a lick with the belt sander or planer. Still, for most things they work fine just the way they are as they did 200 years ago, no special handling and drying needed. Is there any reason rough cut wouldn't work to build my own this summer to get into this next season. Which woods work the best?


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## germanbini

Awesome info! Thank you.


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## Eaglerock

alleyyooper said:


> I built a dado sled to cut the finger joints used on the hive bodies. The two rails ride in the mider jig slots of the table saw.
> 
> Bottom I do a test fit then drill all the holes for the nails. I also use glue in the assembly.


Great photos, thanks.


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## Eaglerock

Can you cut more than one with your setup?


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## alleyyooper

For safety reasons *I would not* cut more than one part at a time.

 Al


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## Eaglerock

alleyyooper said:


> For safety reasons *I would not* cut more than one part at a time.
> 
> Al


True... Now I wished I had my table saw, jointer, drill press, lathe back. I came home one night back in 1985 and my ex sold it all for 50 bucks. I can laugh about it now, couldn't back then. Anyone know why? :shrug:

We were about to move. She said we wouldn't have any place to put them right then. I was going to put them in my mothers garage until we bought a new house. 

Well, nevertheless, I am going to buy one now. :dance:


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## Eaglerock

alleyyooper said:


> I built a dado sled to cut the finger joints used on the hive bodies. The two rails ride in the mider jig slots of the table saw.
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> Step (4. Start with the front and backs place a spacer block over the finger and cut all the first fingers (remember to cut both ends the same).
> ****Note always flip the panal 180degrees so the slots line up.
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> Step (6. Cut all the joints in the side panals ****Note always flip the panal 180degrees so the slots line up.
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> I do a test fit then drill all the holes for the nails. I also use glue in the assembly.
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> Al


Where did the pictures go?


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## Blessed Mommy

The directions I found online to build a Langstroth beehive it says to attach metal rabbets on the frame rest notch. Is this required? Do you recommend it?


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## T-Bone 369

Not required but does help with breaking frames loose from the rabbet when they are proprolized. They are pretty cheap - IIRC the last ones I bought were 12 cents from Dadant.


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## alleyyooper

Funny I see all the pictures near the end, post are dated 4-15-08.
Medal isn't required but make cleaning the frame rest easyer.
If you leave them wood they tend to whittle down.

 Al


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## reginabee

I am in awe of you folks who build your own boxes...that is the stuff.


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## alleyyooper

No reason to be in awe. Anybody can do it if they follow the steps and take their time.

 Al


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## holmesfarm

the sled is a great idea we will make one two. any idea on how to make the grab handles on the sides of the boxes????


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## alleyyooper

You find the center of the hive body mark it on the hive and place a mark on the saw fence at the blades center. Count the turns to raise the blade to how deep you want the handles. Lower the blade set the hive body on the saw hold it tight and raise the blade, move the hive about an inch and the hand holds will be long enough. If you want the bottom rounded like the boughten ones chisle some of the wood away.

:grin: Al


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## dennisblackner

Does anyone have any experience using aromatic cedar for the boxes? I have some surplus, but am concerned since this is the stuff you build closets and chests of to keep bugs out. Maybe it would keep out the wax moths
Dennis


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## alleyyooper

Many of the suppliers sell hives made of cedar.

 Al


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## dennisblackner

Is that the aromatic cedar for closets or the plain cedar for exterior projects?
Dennis


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## alleyyooper

Normal cedar.

 Al


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## backwoodsfarmer

Excuse my ignorance on the matter and perhaps I have missed something,but are there any plans that include the frames? I have a set of plans for the hive body,so I was wondering if I just build frames to fit and leave 3/8" on each side of the frames...

Thanks 

BWF


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## alleyyooper

Yes there are plans for the frames to fit the lang. hive bodies.

http://www.beesource.com/build-it-yourself/dadant-type-frames/

 Al


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## backwoodsfarmer

thanks for the link:bouncy:


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## Oxankle

I've made a batch of queen rearing hives , little six by eight boxes. The work is pleasurable, but you sure cannot save a penny if you have to buy good lumber. Of course, finding the little queen rearing and mating hives is another matter. Making the hives, the top bars, etc is really tiresome if you don't count it as a hobby "like fishing".


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## kyle

I have read cedar is bad, that true? we want to build some hives and have mostly sitka spruce and douglas fir. those ok? spruce is nice and cheap and light weight, its what most building boards are made from around us.


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## no1cowboy

I have not heard of anyone having a ploblem with any type of wood.


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## Falls-Acre

I don't have a table saw... but I do have a router and table. Would that work just as well?


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## alleyyooper

Yes you can use a router to make hive bodies.

 Al


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## kzotter

I'm in the process of researching beekeeping and have run across the Warre hive. I know about the Langstroth hive. Can anyone shed some light on the Warre hive and differences/benefits of either?

Thanx


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## Robert_M

eaglerock said:


> where did the pictures go?


that's what i'd like to know, too......................


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## Robert_M

deaconjim said:


> I have seen someone online that builds hives using 3/4" exterior plywood. Any thoughts on these? The link to their webpage is:
> 
> http://beesupply.com/shop/about.php


If you use 3/4" plywood, Deac, I suggest you use MARINE plywood and not the stuff that comes from Russia or China, but good American Marine Plywood, which is devoid of air pockets and weak spots. It costs more, but it will last about 20 - 1.

I'm a woodworker and I have gotten foreign plywood with half-rotted wood in it, sort of like "balsa" wood in texture. Hell, maybe it WAS balsa. LMAO


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## Dutch 106

Hi Guys,
I had up to 200 hives a few years ago before the goverments help run me off .
I'd like to get back to having 2-3 hives and may before long. Just because I loved having them around.
Two thoughts that may help, I use to use pneumatic stapelers to both put together frames and boxs, my home made deeps, Much fater than nails. I 'd just cut a simple rabbit joint they seemed to stand up pretty well but I sold out before they were more then 5 years old keeping a coat of paint on them seemed most important. The stapels seemed to keep things tighter longe than nails, we also tried adding differant carpenrty glues on the joints. I had a wild idea of using the cheap thin plywood doubling over a inch of foam insulation. I was working in south central Wisconsin and we had some cold winds there if you didn't site your hives carfully.
Oh and I don't think The bees would like cedar boxs if they had any scent to them. and never paint the inside of your boxs either I've seen it twice (new beekeeper)and the bees very definatly didn't like it.
I saw one guy who swore by making a varnish out of turpintine and propolis and a littel beeswax and leaving them out side over winter open to air out. (sort of like home made furniture polish) It did seem to make cleaning excess wax and propolis off easier.
Dutch


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## DLMKA

This is what I use for cutting handholds. It's a shaper cutter with 5/8" cove molding cutter that fits on a tablesaw arbor. I have a fixture that I clamp securely to the fence and table that limits travel to center the handhold and make them the same length every time. Leaves a nicely rounded bottom edge of the handhold that doesn't hold water when it rains and flat edge on top to grip. 

The super on top is one I built, the bottom one is from Dadant.

http://corobcutters.com/mhkhd50moldingknifeheaddelta.aspx
http://corobcutters.com/4458covemoldingknife-1.aspx


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## Radams1265

11


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## COWS

Red cedar as found in the Southeast has a natural insecticide which the bees don't like. Any of the pine family is fine. Poplar, sweetgum, and others of that type decay more easily than pine. The disadvantage of oak is that it is heavy.

Having your own tree(s) sawed up is possible without expensive machinery is possible. I have seen someone illustrate loading a log on a small single axle trailer with a fold up ramp. It involved using a cable puller and probably a sheet pf plywood and skidding the log on the ramp. No, I haven't done this. I have loaded logs on the side of a trailer by using poles on the side to make an inclined plane. A cant hook, of peavy, is needed to roll the log over. Find someone with a sawmill first. It is a lot easier if you do not have to roll the log over the trailer tires. A front end loader is best to use. It also works to carefully lift the log with a chain and a 3ph boom pole, then back the tractor over the trailer, or lift the log and back the trailer under the log, carefully.In fact. do everything with logs carefully. When the log or logs is on the trailer, chain it down tightly.

COWS


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## haypoint

My opinion, only.
There is very little to be saved by making your own. Any differences in size will render your "home crafted" hives non-interchangeable with commercial hives. Hives represent just a small piece of the whole honey gathering process.
I'd never use any sort of fiber board or any grade of glue filled plywood. I don't want to subject my bees or my honey to toxic chemicals used to make OSB or ACX.
Resale of home made hives will eat up any slight savings.
There are several Bee Supply Stores in Michigan. The one in Napoleon has a good supply and the owner very helpful.


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## ed/La

I use cedar fence boards with no problem. They are not 3/4 inch thick so I use pine on the sides with dato. No fancy cuts no dove tail joints. I use screws as fasteners. The bees do not care so why should I.


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## alleyyooper

Several bee supply companies sell cedar and red wood hive bodies.

As for making your own and fitting the commercial stuff and parts interchanging. *THEY WILL FIT*, just follow the measurements.

As for saving money it all depends on how far away the supplier is away from you, if you have to drive hours or pay high shipping cost you will save a large amount. In case you haven't heard gasoline prices are near 2009 cost and expected to be higher by mid summer.

I can buy boards or have my logs milled by several of the amish/minnonites near by here in Michigan and save huge over commercial stuff. Which by the way you don't get to inspect first hand if you are having it shiped. Have had several people at club meetings complain about split cracked loose knot holes and even the know lissing on stuff they bought and had shipped.

 Al


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## fishhead

I have a couple hundred board feet of bandsaw cut birch. It's close to an inch thick and the size runs 8-10" wide. Would that work for making hive bodies? Would I need to run a belt sander over the inner surfaces?

Since birch is porous should the finished parts be sealed with something like polyurethane
or latex paint?


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## damoc

I wrote up a page years ago on making hive bodies not sure if its much use to anybody.
http://www.damoc.com/beekeeper/beebox/beebox.html

I have used this way to make nuc boxes from scrap off cuts and they lasted for many years but as others have said building your own only saves shipping unless you have a lot of wood and or are prepared to invest in a rabbiting/dovetailing machine


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## fishhead

Thanks. That's seems pretty straightforward.

My wood is free so that cuts cost down to the cutting. Can a person substitute glue and pressure for dovetailing the joints? Or maybe put a notch in the joints. I forget what it's called but you cut 1/2 way through and about 1/2 the thickness from the end. That gives you more surface area to glue and more friction to hold the ends together.

Coincidentally I drive right by Mann Lake sometimes.


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## damoc

fishhead said:


> Thanks. That's seems pretty straightforward.
> 
> My wood is free so that cuts cost down to the cutting. Can a person substitute glue and pressure for dovetailing the joints? Or maybe put a notch in the joints. *I forget what it's called but you cut 1/2 way through and about 1/2 the thickness from the end. That gives you more surface area to glue and more friction to hold the ends together*.
> 
> Coincidentally I drive right by Mann Lake sometimes.


Yes you can do it like this and many places say its better for rot resistance but in my expierience its just no where near as strong or long lasting.


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## ed/La

I do not dove tail or use glue. I predrill and use screws.Caulk where needed. Mostly I use 1x6x14ft. from big box store. $6 after tax. I prefer the cedar fence boards because it is very light but cost more. Much free wood available because dimension are so short. Might try 1/4 plywood for long sides of swarm traps to keep weight and cost down. A table saw and 2 drills or screw gun is a must if building several. I caulk end grain and paint. It is fun for few days a year then gets old.


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## RonTgottagoat

My Dad is a woodworker he and I made some bodies from some 3/4 plywood we got 5 boxes out of one sheet with Tax it was $40 I did have some screws but that's only $8 a hive box. I also bought a case of 100 unassembled frames from Mann Lake which brought em down to bout $1 each We also made some screen bottoms with a removable drawer that could help restrict airflow in winter Now I need to Figure out some tops


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## alleyyooper

Tops are not hard to make. Just measure the frame cut your lumber to size decided what you want for the wood part of thre cover and some metal roof flashing I used galvinized for that. 

 Al


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## fishhead

alleyyooper said:


> Tops are not hard to make. Just measure the frame cut your lumber to size decided what you want for the wood part of thre cover and some metal roof flashing I used galvinized for that.
> 
> Al


I also have some 25 yr rated pond liner that is very easy to work with.


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