# pig pen grumble... the muck is stronger than I am



## cathleenc (Aug 16, 2007)

two 3 month pigs, large but still confinement situation, perhaps 15' x 25'?

The muck they've created dumbfounds me. How do they do it? The surrounding land, outside of their pen, is solid to the foot. How do they get to be so special that their pen is filled with well-rooted water filled muck?

I've tried laying down hay to give myself footing. The pigs just root it up and build a layer of it on the pen footings. 

I walked into their pen today and got stuck. I could not lift my foot up for minutes, despite trying! I fell forward while trying. Not a total faceplant but still, well, ICK.

It should freeze here soon (lots of prayers being said for COLD!) but till then, what do I do?

clearly I take 3 minutes to grumble. I can figure out how to do that. More than that? Help! suggestions welcome!


----------



## sassafras manor (Dec 5, 2009)

Why do you need to enter their pen? Is it possible to move their feed and water to the fenceline so that you can do chores from the outside?


----------



## cathleenc (Aug 16, 2007)

Because their pen has 6' high walls to slow down coyote progress. The pen is a couple of linked together dog kennels. 

Also because their feed and water dishes are those flexible rubber dishes which the piggies move all over the pen each day - it's hunt and search for bowls at feeding time. Talked to dh tonight about fastening at least the feed dish to a railroad tie to make it less likely to get moved.

Good questions.


----------



## cooper101 (Sep 13, 2010)

One thing you can do with those rubber pans: I attached 3 eye-bolts to 3 'corners' of the pan and then used little snap links to attach the bowl to a corner of the hog panel pen I had. That kept it up off the ground a little and kept it in one place. It was also easy to remove to clean.


----------



## lonelyfarmgirl (Feb 6, 2005)

Sorry, cathy, but its the same here. That pen they were in, the 30X30 in the back with the other group. Even the huge winter pen for the brood stock is like that. I just don't get it! I think it's because pigs have a LOT of urine. What I have done, is I have been giving them a slab of hay, straw, whatever each day in the same spot, so they have a dry place to bed down. They have developed a high area. I am feeding in the low and bedding in the high. They don't seem to mind waddling thru the muck. And the rubber dish is sticking in the muck and not moving around too much. Just hold on to the sides! 

Sorry you fell. That sucks! Boy, I can't WAIT till ground freeze. Just hang in there and be content in this fact... that manure will make you some AWESOME corn next year!


----------



## cathleenc (Aug 16, 2007)

ah ha! had one of those great problem solving moments while sleeping. 

My plan this morning is to build a small 90" angle, out of hog panels, covering the door area of the pen on the inside. I can easily attach the pan-on-a-railroad-tie to it and figure out a way to secure the water dish as well. I can then have my coyote safe pen AND have a hog-free zone to feed & water from. I'll still need to enter once in awhile but this should be a big improvement, for me at least.

Don't know if I would have thought of this if I hadn't tanked in the pen yesterday.


----------



## gerold (Jul 18, 2011)

cathleenc said:


> two 3 month pigs, large but still confinement situation, perhaps 15' x 25'?
> 
> The muck they've created dumbfounds me. How do they do it? The surrounding land, outside of their pen, is solid to the foot. How do they get to be so special that their pen is filled with well-rooted water filled muck?
> 
> ...


What is your pen made of ? 
You could make another pen along side the one with a gate or passage way to the new pen. Make it out of post and field wire. Prepare the ground first. Maybe 3 inch. gravel to raise it a bit. outside the pen a little ditch for drainage. You could get a big round bale of hay or straw and put in a good bed on one end with a roof over the top. Maybe around 4 ft. high. Two or three sheets of 3 ft. x 8ft. corrugated aluminum roofing should do it. 
One 180 lb. pig will excrete about 11 pounds of manure a day. 

Or you could gravel the pen you have and put in a lot of straw. One end needs to be opened once in awhile to clear out straw and put new in or just add to.

Good luck,
Gerold.

P.S. You may want to use heavy gage hog wire instead of field wire.


----------



## lonelyfarmgirl (Feb 6, 2005)

You know, I didn't think until later. This is what we do. I don't know what your access is like. Usually for winter, we confine the pigs to a smaller area than the summer pasture runs for ease of feeding and such. We put a single round bale in the pen just outside of their shelter. They dig into it and drag the bedding around where they want it. 

If you have no accessibility, you could make a pyramid in the center, of say a dozen small squares of straw or grass hay. They would dig into it, make their own beds and spread it around a bit. It would really help to dry up the pen a bit. Or, it could go terribly wrong, and instead you would have a hay island with a surrounding moat of liquid poo...


----------



## olivehill (Aug 17, 2009)

I can't believe the overwhelming advice here is to "save yourself" and leave the pigs to wallow in muck. Even if you COULD do chores over the fence why would you want to leave animals in your charge in deplorable conditions just because you, yourself didn't have to deal with them? Good heavens! 

The reason pig pens get muddy so easily is because of the way pigs are built. If you take a look at their legs and hooves you'll see that they're basically giant aerators/churners. Every step they take churns up the ground and when you've got all that body weight behind each step it can make for deep mud very quickly. 

At this point putting down gravel is futile, because you've already got a muck pit they'll just churn that gravel right into the muck never to be seen again. Luckily, straw does work well, but you can't be stingy. In the spring -- and this fall since it's been so wet -- we routinely put down 4-6 inches of straw _per day, per pen_. It's done on an as needed basis, but the bigger pigs pretty much need it daily when it's really wet. Getting a round bale, unrolling it and putting the straw in as "mats" as much as possible will help. It will still be wet, but they won't be sinking to their bellies in mud and you won't get stuck trying to do chores. Good luck.


----------



## Allen W (Aug 2, 2008)

Drain the pen or move it. I can't see coyotes being much of a problem with 3 month old pigs.


----------



## lonelyfarmgirl (Feb 6, 2005)

olivehill said:


> I can't believe the overwhelming advice here is to "save yourself" and leave the pigs to wallow in muck. Even if you COULD do chores over the fence why would you want to leave animals in your charge in deplorable conditions just because you, yourself didn't have to deal with them? Good heavens!



5 people offered advice, 2 suggested copious amounts of bedding, one suggested moving them, and one addressed the moving dish issue. I wouldn't call that overwhelming anti-'care for the pigs before yourself advice', sheesh!


----------



## olivehill (Aug 17, 2009)

lonelyfarmgirl said:


> 5 people offered advice, 2 suggested copious amounts of bedding, one suggested moving them, and one addressed the moving dish issue. I wouldn't call that overwhelming anti-'care for the pigs before yourself advice', sheesh!


Actually, before I responded it was four. I was the fifth, clearly I wasn't addressing my own response since it hadn't been posted yet. 

One outright said to leave them to it. 

Another only gave a suggestion for not having to wade through it to get the dishes after the OP said that's why she couldn't not go in because of the dishes. Which I take as an endorsement of leaving it and just worrying about the dish issue. 

Another said to give them a high place to sleep but leave them to wade through muck for all other of their daily functions. 

And yes, one suggested a lot of bedding. 

So There were four and three of those endorsed leaving them in the muck to one extent or another. If 3/4 isn't a majority, I don't know what is. 

It's a tough thing to deal with, I'll give you that. But you have to _try_ and I really don't see any real try in 75% of the answers given prior to my first response. My opinion. If you don't like it, that's fine.


----------



## olivehill (Aug 17, 2009)

Allen W said:


> Drain the pen or move it. I can't see coyotes being much of a problem with 3 month old pigs.


Coyotes tend to be bigger in the north. 3 months can still be a bit of a danger up here when they are penned by themselves without bigger pigs as a deterrent.

Have you drained a pig pen before? I've tried but have never been successful. Wondering how you've accomplished it, if you did.


----------



## gerold (Jul 18, 2011)

olivehill said:


> Coyotes tend to be bigger in the north. 3 months can still be a bit of a danger up here when they are penned by themselves without bigger pigs as a deterrent.
> 
> Have you drained a pig pen before? I've tried but have never been successful. Wondering how you've accomplished it, if you did.


A lot will depend on what the ground is like and were it is located. 
If the ground is flat with poor drainage that can be a problem.
I don't have that problem as the ground sort of rocky and has good drainage.
Like you said when i make pen a hog i prepare the ground and area first so not to have a problem with water. Good drainage and two pens next to each other works for me. One gets full just switch the hogs and clear it out. I put the blade on tractor and scrap out the soiled hay and put new hay in. One roof in corner can cover both pens on one end. 

If one does not have access to tractor some people just keep putting hay or straw in on top and use it later for something else. Like i said before build up the area where the pen goes so drainage can take place if on flat ground. The bigger the pen the better for the hogs. Another way if space is a problem build a pig tractor so it can be washed out and moved to different spots. But that's a whole new ballgame.

Could you gave her a good outline on how to fix the problem. First thing is to find out what the ground and area is like. And at what expense she can afford.

She has a problem and it needs to be fixed.

Best,
Gerold.


----------



## Allen W (Aug 2, 2008)

Yes I've drained a pig pen or three. Coyotes get shot or trapped, no better then I shoot they get trapped and then shot. I know that isn't an option for every one.


----------



## cathleenc (Aug 16, 2007)

Much better here today. Muck is crispy and almost firm. Hopefully this should be the last of it for this duo. Oh, and no one sunk up to their bellies - I never said that. And the entire pen was certainly not muck, either. I think I asked for help within 36 hours. People contributed thoughts and answers. Which is what I asked for. I don't see any evidence, anywhere, of mistreatment of animals.

Muck was only a problem for 4-5 days. Mother Nature to the rescue!


----------



## Allen W (Aug 2, 2008)

Glad things are getting better. Maybe a temporary feeding pen outside of the main pen for emergency use in the next rain would help.


----------



## stanley (Aug 22, 2011)

I have never been out of the central Virginia area so this may not be a solution for you however I use leaves for bedding the pigs love to root in them and turn them into mulch They are light so I will pile them 2' deep it keeps the pen dry I also use 55 gal barrels cut in half length wise chained to the fence one for water one for food that way they don't get lost in the leaves.


----------



## stanley (Aug 22, 2011)

Should have also stated it's not just pigs any animal including humans when walking in a wet area will create "muck" just look around a construction site in wet weather


----------



## lasergrl (Nov 24, 2007)

I have a winter pen that is 16 x 32 for 3 mini (micro even) pigs. I unrolled a round bale about 3 weeks ago. An entire round baler in matts as suggested. It lasted two weeks.....I dont know what anyone would do with big pigs. They would be mucky again in a week and you will be spending $30 for each bale for them to turn and churn into the mud.


----------



## lonelyfarmgirl (Feb 6, 2005)

we don't unroll the bales. we let the pigs do it. They end up digging into the side and spreading them where they want. It creates a dry area and leaves a wet area. I have watched our sows pick up whole slabs of hay and carry them about to place them where she wants, so I know they are smart enough to make themselves certain areas.


----------

