# Everyone says they're "coming here" in a SHTF!



## lorian (Sep 4, 2005)

Hmm..can't edit titles...sorry for the mispell... (fixed it for you, AM2)

Now before you yell at me to be more discreet...I never tell anyone about my preps (besides my Mom, and she doesn't talk). But our suburban relatives and some city friends can see with their own eyes (I guess) how big our garden is and how much I can and how big my pantry is (real preps are hidden). I don't have more than the average country person though...probably not as much as my Amish friends! But I sure have more than they do. 

The avg. person probably has a few kitchen cabinets full of food and when they see a well stocked pantry they say "Well, I know where I'm coming when the economy goes, then they laugh...."

It's been happening more and more lately, probably because I talk about gardening and canning on FB.... Now I'm nervous. 
I want to have ideas for KIND replies that will encourage others to prep. I'm not into being rude with others, but I want to be blunt in a polite way. I cannot support anyone other than us and my Mom and Dad..which I plan on.

I know this topic is discussed often on here, but would you remind refreshing me on your witty replies to others when this comes up? And as I said, I'd rather use humor and kindness to get my point across. Thanks


----------



## 7thswan (Nov 18, 2008)

Same here, but I don't know what to tell you. Why do these peole think they can just move in on your stuff?


----------



## Tracy Rimmer (May 9, 2002)

How about, "I could teach you, if you'd like. Everyone should know how to provide for themselves."

Gets the point across (you're providing for you and yours, and they ought to do the same) without telling them they won't be welcome, or being nasty about what they SHOULD be smart enough to do for themselves.

We used to have that problem. I probably didn't handle it as well as I could have. Typically, I replied with something along the lines of, "I don't like you enough to take you in, long term." Said jokingly, but I think they got my point.


----------



## 2kidsdad (Sep 27, 2009)

I just say "Cool, whatcha bringing to the party" and kinda smile


----------



## chickenista (Mar 24, 2007)

You could look them up and down real slow and make mention of being able to get a few good meals out them.. that should do it.


----------



## Texasdirtdigger (Jan 17, 2010)

I don't feel obligated toward most of my extended family...or, too many friends. They will absolutly not be welcome if they do not bring "something to the party" (skills, brawn, etc.) I have said to a dear friend of mine... "If something God awful happens, I am going to bring all my food and come here... because, ya'll have more guns than we do!" We have sinced changed that scenario...by careful planning and budgeting. She also, really does not have any idea of the stores I have..... and they AIN'T going anywhere. 
I have been out of work for almost a year and half.. which only made me more determined.
My db called the other day, wailing about being out of work for 2 mo, in the next breath, he told me about the great coastal vacation he took his family on the week before. I love him alot.... he once saved my life. My mom passed when I was 8 and I took care of him until he married. ( he's 6 yrs older than I am) It's hard...but in an every man(or) woman for themselves scenario... he's probably out!
I also have a lot of friends or acquaintance want me to teach them how to do canning....It usually means..could we come have a play day, you do most of the work, and let me take all the good stuff home.....NO THANK YOU!! 
Like I said... it is tough....It may be time for some tough love...Maybe it will make them aware that no one can care for them , but themselves. 
As you said, offer to teach them.... if they are serious,you will know it soon enough. if they are not... then you will know that you tried.
We may all be forced to be more hard hearted; it goes against my very generous and loving nature, so I am steeling myself for hard choices.
Good Luck to you ....and your family, too.


----------



## willbuck1 (Apr 4, 2010)

When a woman at work found out I bought my place and what all I intended to raise she said she was coming there if things got bad. I said if you do I'll probably shoot you. I don't have time or energy to waste on fools who see it coming and won't prepare. I have family I'll take in and planning for enough to take in one more family that has a skill I could really use.


----------



## AngieM2 (May 10, 2002)

willbuck1 said:


> When a woman at work found out I bought my place and what all I intended to raise she said she was coming there if things got bad. I said if you do I'll probably shoot you. I don't have time or energy to waste on fools who see it coming and won't prepare. I have family I'll take in and planning for enough to take in one more family that has a skill I could really use.


What was her reply to that?


----------



## AR Transplant (Mar 20, 2004)

I don't think you have to have a total melt down to have to become tough. Already we are declining to help those we once would have readily helped. Things are getting tough out there, it really is time to gently or firmly assist others to help themselves. Now if someone wants to learn something from me, that is a different story.
If or when the big thing hits, those that know us will know loud and clear to STAY clear of us.

I have as of lately, become one tough cookie. (and proud of it I might add)


----------



## 36376 (Jan 24, 2009)

willbuck1 said:


> When a woman at work found out I bought my place and what all I intended to raise she said she was coming there if things got bad. I said if you do I'll probably shoot you. I don't have time or energy to waste on fools who see it coming and won't prepare. I have family I'll take in and planning for enough to take in one more family that has a skill I could really use.


I'd love to know how she responded as well!


----------



## MrCalicoty (Jun 27, 2010)

I'll leave the wit behind on this one... Instead I'll try to ask myself... WWJD?

If things are that bad I'd probably be utterly miserable and wouldn't want to be around that long anyway. Helping out others to whom you can share some love with would probably have a much better payoff in the long run. Hopefully any situation would be temporary and short lived.

I can say that I've really been frustrated with friends and acquaintances who would "glaze over" when I tried to talk with them about my sense of urgency to prepare (starting in late 2007 when the DOW was still at 14,000). This sense of urgency hit me like a ton of bricks and I went about trying to talk with others to try and make sense of it all. After almost two years and little to no response from anyone we set a course as a family to go it alone for the most part. We also realize that we will likely have what others wish they had. Not that we have much to speak of but these other folks won't know what to do when it hits them... they just might come begging and that just might be alright.


----------



## Callieslamb (Feb 27, 2007)

MrCalicoty said:


> I'll leave the wit behind on this one... Instead I'll try to ask myself... WWJD?.


Maybe quote the story of the foolish virgins that didn't prepare ahead of time though they knew what they needed? 

There is a time to be generous and a time to save your own. I guess what one does depends on the emergency how one proceeds to act. Power outage due to storm? Come one and all. Total collapse of the country - me and mine, until the Lord tells me otherwise. 

I don't want anyone's "preparation" to be enough gas to get to my place. Usually, we remind people that they can and probably should put items away for their family's use also. What to say depends on how well I know the person saying it.


----------



## Kathyhere (Sep 27, 2009)

Being realistic it will be hard to turn away family and close friends, but you don't have to give your food away for free, if they are actually talking about showing up at your place expecting hand outs. Well you just need to get serious with them and tell them (of course keeping a smile on your face) that having your well stocked pantry was real hard work and you don't plan on giving it away for free. If they ever show up for a meal then they should come with their work clothes on. Most people do not expect or want to actually work for the food you give them. But if they are so bold to say they would come to 'share' your food, then speak up for yourself and tell them what they should expect.

It is only fair for you to get pay back for someone who wants your food. So make it clear and just say, _'sure you can come over for a meal if things get bad, this farm is a lot of works and I could use some help. So I could use the help to work up more ground for a bigger garden, it's hard work but hey you will get a real nice meal for it in return.'_

That would really be meant to discourage those looking for an easy meal, but actually you may just have to implement this strategy and you should. It is only fair that if someone wants to eat your food that they should pay what you ask for it. When things get hard you will have to be tough to survive, even with those you love. But you don't have to turn them away necessarily, just let them know ahead of time that your food comes at a price.


----------



## KeithBC (Jul 3, 2010)

I agree with Kathyhere. In any kind of SHTF scenario, if survival means letting my neighbours and friends starve, then I might as well jump into the fan myself, because that is not the kind of community I want to survive in. It is cooperative communities that will survive, not isolated families or individuals.

I am not about to hand out freebies to anyone who shows up, but I can see putting a neighbour to work for some of my food, just as I can see myself working for that neighbour in exchange for what he has that I need.


----------



## Cyngbaeld (May 20, 2004)

You could smile and ask if she ever heard the story of the Little Red Hen. If she looks blank, tell it to her. Then ask if she ever heard the story of the Ant and the Grasshopper.


----------



## texican (Oct 4, 2003)

"Slaves are always needed"... I think the distinctions between slaves and freeholders (work wise) will be narrowed to a very fine point... work hard or die.

Only my immediate family, and those who prep as hard (and some harder if you can believe it!)as I do, know of my plans.... except for you folks...Aaaccckkk... (amazingly enough, I trust a fair amount of people on here... can't imagine someone jibbering away day after day about this esoteric topic, without them actually having done some of it.)

Most of my friends are in walking distance... odds are my far flung friends would never make the trek here, if the shtf occurred.

Imho, it matters not whether you prep or not, IF you live in sight of a paved road, especially major artery roads. Each home will be systematically checked out, first by the authorities, for supplies (the entitlementistas must be fed, regardless if they're completely off the triage list as survivable), then by quasi-legal local 'authorities'... then the hit and run raiders. By the time the raiders get there, there'll probably be nothing left to loot. [If you do live on the road, or in sight of it, I'd suggest not keeping all your eggs in one basket... multiple locations, completely hidden... of course, always have 'some' bait food around, to sate the 'hungry', whether it be legal or illegal authorities.]

Slaves... sad, but I could only feed and shelter two or three... 

Maybe if you do mention you'd need some good slaves, and reach over and squeeze their arm, and look at their teeth... `:gaptooth: they'd actually get the message. This is not a bed and breakfast now, it'll be something out of the dark ages 'afterwards'. 

We're all going to die someday... rather not have to turn away anyone, and later have to shoot them when they return... wouldn't do my karma any good. So, I've strived to avoid such situations, by camouflaging my existence.


----------



## coehorn (Jul 29, 2009)

KeithBC said:


> I agree with Kathyhere. In any kind of SHTF scenario, if survival means letting my neighbours and friends starve, then I might as well jump into the fan myself, because that is not the kind of community I want to survive in. It is cooperative communities that will survive, not isolated families or individuals.





You will need to be equal to the situation or you will die.

Several "family" members have joked about coming here when tshtf. Standard response: We've been talking to you for several years about food storage and getting prepared but you've ignored all the warning signs. Sorry, but I can't take you on.

Hard but realistic. They are not coming here when the system goes belly up. Nobody ever said Darwin Awards were easy.


----------



## Trixters_muse (Jan 29, 2008)

I have spent the last three years attempting to get my friends and family to prep, so far my mom has a basic BOB bag and a cupboard full of food and water and my sister has a BOB, a few cans of food and a case of 24 bottles of water for her and her two kids. Basic storm type survival but nothing for real hard times. 

My sister even lost her job this past year and now her unemployment has ended so money is super tight for her. I planted seeds in pots and taught her how to raise a patio garden, she let the plants die. I bought her a tent and some basic items she may need if SHTF, she traded them to a friend for a leather coat!

But guess who says they are coming to my house if anything bad happens? They are my mom and sister so what could I do? Can't turn them away but I did tell my sister she had better stock up on more food and learn some skills. At least my mom does have skills and about a 6 month supply of food for herself and about two months worth of water. The other sister shops every three days and is lucky if she has a can of soup and a box of crackers at any given time in her kitchen. So far she hasn't said she will be coming too but she threatened to steal my chickens! She laughed but in a worse case scenario I wouldn't even trust my sister!


----------



## FyredUp (May 22, 2010)

Only myself, my fiancee, and my sons, know the extent of our prep and how much deeper it will go. And my sons don't truly know all that is being done.

The best camouflage is to be invisible right out in the open. Just be there, and draw no undue attention to yourself. Just go about your business.


----------



## Texasdirtdigger (Jan 17, 2010)

If any of my family or friends need my help in the "meantime", before TSHTF, I will do or teach them what I know....So they can be prepared, as best they can. But, I cannot just give my preps away .I will be glad to feed a hungry soul for work in kind, BUT I cannot condone "hangers on", at this point. We are all in real trouble here.....Wish they would "get it".
You know even the kids that check you out at the grocery stores, snear if you have bought multiples of an item...It always make me sad....because I feel they do not have much of a chance.


----------



## Spinner (Jul 19, 2003)

The few who have said they would come to my place uninvited, got told that they won't want to be around me if things get bad since I don't react well to tough times. 

Almost everyone I know is as well or better prepped than I am so thankfully that problem doesn't arise often.


----------



## Callieslamb (Feb 27, 2007)

Just my immediate children and their spouses and kids ARE a community....There are 20 of us for now. I totally agree that we will all need the help of others, but we will need supplies just as much. There is only so much farm help you need. If the SHTF happens in November, how many can you feed until the next harvest? How long will what you have last if you feed 10 people? 20? 40? If you try to feed 40 with food for 10....what's the end result? It will be heartbreaking for everyone. There are no good choices. We can only do as the Lord directs us and remember that dying isn't the worst thing that can happen.


----------



## suitcase_sally (Mar 20, 2006)

Get a pad of paper and write a list of about 250 names on it. When they say they will show up at your place, drag out the pad and add their name to the bottom and give them a number. Tell them you will call them when their number is up.


----------



## cvk (Oct 30, 2006)

"Oh goodie, glad you are coming--I don't want to starve alone!"


----------



## lorian (Sep 4, 2005)

suitcase_sally said:


> Get a pad of paper and write a list of about 250 names on it. When they say they will show up at your place, drag out the pad and add their name to the bottom and give them a number. Tell them you will call them when their number is up.


This one made me laugh! I love it...

Thanks for the replies, lots of good ideas. I am trying to "hide in plain site", I just have too many friends from the past (that live in cities) and think any friend in the country is a good option. 

Kind of like those people that see the big "lane change/move over arrow" on the highway but refuse to merge with traffic until the last minute....then demand to get in front of you RIGHT NOW.
Live the good life, drive fast and don't prepare for the future...then count on the country relatives/little red hens, to take care of you.

Think I'll buy a couple copies of the little red hen books and hand them out at Christmas time with a prep book...


----------



## NoClue (Jan 22, 2007)

When people say this to me, I usually answer 'cool! just bring your working clothes, because this pantry doesn't stock itself..."


----------



## texican (Oct 4, 2003)

KeithBC said:


> I agree with Kathyhere. In any kind of SHTF scenario, if survival means letting my neighbours and friends starve, then I might as well jump into the fan myself, because that is not the kind of community I want to survive in. It is cooperative communities that will survive, not isolated families or individuals.
> 
> I am not about to hand out freebies to anyone who shows up, but I can see putting a neighbour to work for some of my food, just as I can see myself working for that neighbour in exchange for what he has that I need.


If the shtf (and I'm hardly ever talking about your afternoon when the powers off for a few hours, and folks without electricity can't cook their meals, but more like the electricity's been off for weeks, and it looks like it's never coming back on, law and order is a faint memory, and a new paradigm is in effect) there'll be no such thing as "one meal", or cooperative communities, sharing.

Let's just say you live in a satellite surburban community of 500 people. Folks buy their food on a weekly, if not daily basis. You, however, are prepped for a year's troubles for your family of four. After a week, without refrigeration, all of the stores are cleaned out. All food at peoples homes are running out. There are several mass feasts, as freezers are defrosting and folks are chowing down heartily. However, by the end of week two, folks are getting hungry. Very hungry. You feed neighbor Bob and Sue and their kids, they do some work on your farm. However, they come back tomorrow, and the next day they bring Joe and Rita, and their three kids... a few days later the entire community is parked on your doorstep. A committee has organized, and it's their decision that you should 'share'. 

Three days later, everyone is hungry again, including you and your family. A month later, most of them are dead, and so are you and your family.

Unless you live in the heartland, with a few grain elevators you can control, full of corn or wheat, your community is going to evaporate, slowly, then fast, then maybe a handful who've prepped, and hidden their stores, will survive. A cooperative community WILL survive, if they're all farmers, ranchers, homesteaders, craftsmen, and have no dead beat entitlementistas on hand. There'll be no room for deadbeats. Unless the community has a vast storehouse of goods, white collar folks and soccer moms will have little value, except as oxen, when the diesel for the tractors run out.

Odds are, we all die. I have some inside information, that none of us makes it out of here alive. In a BAD shtf, or TEOTWAWKI, unprepared folks will have a harder time, than those that do prep. If you do plan on feeding the masses, I'd recommend a grain silo filled with corn or wheat. #10 cans or 5 gallon buckets will kill ya on storage space.

Sorry, this is just my 'take' on feeding folks 'afterwards' that you can't/won't tell about prepping 'now'. None of us (well, I imagine, but who knows?) are wealthy enough to save everyone in our area, food wise. Unless your a commercial farmer/rancher, with a stockpile of seed, fertilizer, minerals, fuel, spare parts, your operation will evaporate within a year. "Homesteaders" are only a fraction as productive as the commercial boys... and without large fields of grain, large populations of people won't exist. Humans can only go so far on zucchinis.


----------



## lorian (Sep 4, 2005)

"Humans can only go so far on zucchinis"...funny but true.

I guess my preps, truth be told Texican, are more on the order of being ready for a depression era type scenario, not big enough to survive a TEOTWAWKI yet. I agree with most of your predictions of what would happen in a TEOTWAWKI, I'm just hoping that doesn't happen. Myself, hubs and even my teenage daughters have more than a few skills, so hopefully we would be welcomed into a functioning shtf society. My daughter is planning on getting her LPN after high school. Amazingly she doesn't want a career in it, she wants to be prepared to help others! Her idea.


----------



## Ernie (Jul 22, 2007)

For the most part, the lack of forethought that leads most people to not preparing for their own future needs is not going to make them very compatible (or desirable) partners for those who DID have the forethought to prepare.

The situation changes for those who did prepare but were forced out of their homes by circumstances, and especially for those in the local communities of prepared Christians I'm interfacing with now. I'd welcome as many of that type in with open arms no matter how little food we had left. It would seem that staving off starvation would be that much simpler with some like-minded folks.


----------



## Ohio dreamer (Apr 6, 2006)

"Oh, just remember to bring a months worth of food for each month you plan to eat. Oh, by the way, please bring your shovels and hoes for the garden my are almost worn out."

That is making the assumption we are talking to people who don't prep or even care to try.


----------



## longrider (Jun 16, 2005)

I would be thinking of some alternative locations to advise your friends and family. Simply tell them to move on to were they can best survive, not enough to go around.


----------



## FyredUp (May 22, 2010)

Ernie said:


> For the most part, the lack of forethought that leads most people to not preparing for their own future needs is not going to make them very compatible (or desirable) partners for those who DID have the forethought to prepare.
> 
> The situation changes for those who did prepare but were forced out of their homes by circumstances, and especially for those in the local communities of prepared Christians I'm interfacing with now. I'd welcome as many of that type in with open arms no matter how little food we had left. It would seem that staving off starvation would be that much simpler with some like-minded folks.


Frankly, if my supplies are so limited that letting one person in compromises my families safety they aren't coming in. The only exceptions would be if they have provisions that would extend our chances or a skill so valuable that only a fool would deny them admittance.

Surviving beats the heck out of starving. And more unprepared people are nothing more than a burden.


----------



## rhome (Aug 10, 2006)

I've been reading threads like this for about 12 years and the same replies happen.
Charitable to family...up to a certain point.
Work to stay here.
Sorry, I'll have to shoot your sorry -----...you were warned.
And one of my favorites that I don't see very often. Sure your welcome and here's a list of supplies I'll need to store for each of your family members to survive for X years.
Then give them a price list with total $$ amount for pre-payment before they can show up.

There's a formula I've got about SHTF scenarios.
AN EVENT can cause a CRISIS
A CRISIS can cause a COLLAPSE
A COLLAPSE can cause a SHFT situation.
Good luck


----------



## Rainy (Jan 21, 2010)

When we got our generator a few years back, the first response from most of our neighbors was I know where i am coming if the power goes out.. My response was you are more than welcome but you must bring all of your food as payment. Oh and your own blanket. All i got back was "That sounds fair".


----------



## willbuck1 (Apr 4, 2010)

Her jaw dropped, she started to say something, and then thought better of it. She knows me well enough to know I meant exactly what I said. I plan on helping my neighbors that are close enough to help with my defense. I won't feed them but I'll help them feed themselves. Other than that the 20 or so people at my place can hold out against a fairly large group. Just not trained and equipped soldiers.
I don't want my defense lines to be at my house. I want them to be at the neighbors. That may sound cold but my home is my last line of defense and I'll hold it or die trying. I just would rather the fighting happened a little farther away.


----------



## AngieM2 (May 10, 2002)

willbuck1 said:


> When a woman at work found out I bought my place and what all I intended to raise she said she was coming there if things got bad. I said if you do I'll probably shoot you. I don't have time or energy to waste on fools who see it coming and won't prepare. I have family I'll take in and planning for enough to take in one more family that has a skill I could really use.





willbuck1 said:


> Her jaw dropped, she started to say something, and then thought better of it. She knows me well enough to know I meant exactly what I said. I plan on helping my neighbors that are close enough to help with my defense. I won't feed them but I'll help them feed themselves. Other than that the 20 or so people at my place can hold out against a fairly large group. Just not trained and equipped soldiers.
> I don't want my defense lines to be at my house. I want them to be at the neighbors. That may sound cold but my home is my last line of defense and I'll hold it or die trying. I just would rather the fighting happened a little farther away.


this post is just to tie the response to the original post that we asked about the lady's response.

Thanks for telling us.


----------



## willbuck1 (Apr 4, 2010)

Thanks Angie. 
For my neighbors I plan on stocking enough seeds, plastic, and nails to build temporary greenhouses. I'll help them but only that far. I'll help with their defense because it is mine too and keeps the wolf farther from my door. I just can't afford the time and resources to stock for them too.


----------



## GrannyCarol (Mar 23, 2005)

MrCalicoty said:


> I'll leave the wit behind on this one... Instead I'll try to ask myself... WWJD? ....


Oh, I don't know... maybe grab a few loaves and fishes and feed 'em all? Certainly He didn't stock up for emergencies. In fact, didn't He say to take no thought for tomorrow, what to eat or what to wear? Seems to me that God does provide for His own and its not what we think provision is necessarily. 

Now, I don't worry about what Jesus would do, I just ask Him what He wants ME to do. I'm not God and He is, ya know? I don't think you'll be seeing me walk on water or feed thousands from a few loaves of bread and a few fishes. I don't have to guess what He'd do either, He's alive, He can speak for Himself (and does!).


----------



## Laura Zone 5 (Jan 13, 2010)

lorian said:


> Hmm..can't edit titles...sorry for the mispell... (fixed it for you, AM2)
> 
> Now before you yell at me to be more discreet...I never tell anyone about my preps (besides my Mom, and she doesn't talk). But our suburban relatives and some city friends can see with their own eyes (I guess) how big our garden is and how much I can and how big my pantry is (real preps are hidden). I don't have more than the average country person though...probably not as much as my Amish friends! But I sure have more than they do.
> 
> ...


In a very matter of fact way I would say:
Really? Is that your plan? 
If the reply is 'sure'.
Say "Excellent! You can start now by writing me a check for 100.00 every week, so that I may stock up for you and your family. OH AND you need to learn a skill now. You can't come empty handed and skilless. OH AND you will need to bring your own firearm and ammunition. Let me know when you purchase that, so that we can go to the range together.....OH AND 
(get my point)
Just start rattling off all that THEY NEED TO DO before they get through your door. Not in a hateful way......but in an as if they seriously asked kind of way.

PS: We don't do FB. Any of us. Ever. Bad bad idea. I could go onto most any FB site and tell you enough about the person who set up the site, that I could not only steal their identitiy but drive to their front door, act like a friend of the FB, give enough information to 'confirm' I am a friend, walk into the house and take whatever I wanted........children included.
People don't realize how much information they give up, until it's too late.


----------



## willow_girl (Dec 7, 2002)

> I'm not into being rude with others, but I want to be blunt in a polite way. I cannot support anyone other than us and my Mom and Dad..which I plan on.


Let's be realistic here. The odds of a wholesale SHTF or TEOTWAWKI during our lifetime is probably slim. Is it really worth alienating someone you like (and, if we're being totally mercenary here, someone who may be of some use to you in the here and now) over the infinitesimally small possibility they may someday be morphed into a "zombie"? Think about it.


----------



## Texasdirtdigger (Jan 17, 2010)

Well said Texican, well said.


----------



## PrincessFerf (Apr 25, 2008)

I have not talked with my family much... other than my sister and her husband (they are the closest thing to preppers in my familly). They live in the city and couldn't stay there if things got bad. 

I've told them that if things get real bad, to load up their truck with their tools, medical supplies, food, blankets & clothing and all of their hunting and camping gear and get to our place. Their skills and gear (plus the extra hands) are ones I would want and need at our place. 

I guess the bottom line is that family would only be welcome if they could work enough to offset their keep. I'm not providing for them... WE would be providing for EACH OTHER as a group. In a short amount of time the stored food would run out and the hard work would have to begin. Our combined skills might be able to make the difference needed.


----------



## suitcase_sally (Mar 20, 2006)

willow_girl said:


> Let's be realistic here. The odds of a wholesale SHTF or TEOTWAWKI during our lifetime is probably slim. /QUOTE]
> 
> Apparently you never heard of Katrina. Or Rita. Oh, and Wilma.
> 
> ...


----------



## willow_girl (Dec 7, 2002)

Those are short-term crises affecting limited areas. People generally have ample time to evacuate from a hurricane, and the smart ones do. And I suspect most of the looters in these cases are more interested in flat screen TVs than hundred-pound sacks of rice. 

The odds of long-term societal upheaval affecting a large region of the country are pretty slim, IMO.

Let's do a common-sense risk analysis. If the sister-in-law who announces she plans to take shelter at your place lives 20 miles away, you probably have nothing to worry about, because if the SHTF, roadways quickly will become gridlocked. So in this scenario, you might as well smile and tell her, "Sure, come on over," knowing full well it may be next to impossible for her to actually get there. By the time the roads are cleared, the crisis will be over.

(Of course, if _you're_ 20 miles from home when a catastrophe strikes, your preps won't do _you_ any good, either. So best to stay hunkered in the bunker!)

Let's say your next-door neighbor is the aspiring zombie. Telling her that she and other looters will be shot on sight likely will cause a rupture in your friendship. In some cases, you may not stand to lose much, but what if this is the neighbor you can count on to pick up your sick kids from school, or whose husband is willing to help yours put that new roof on the house? You may be throwing away some valuable "real life" assistance in order to preserve your supposed security in a (highly unlikely) SHTF scenario. Is that really wise? Like I said, think about it.


----------



## willbuck1 (Apr 4, 2010)

Willow Girl, 20 miles is nothing. Anybody in halfway decent shape should be able to walk it in a day.
An awful lot of economists and the CBO are projecting that Obama's projected budget deficits are unsustainable and will result in an economic collapse within my lifetime and I'm a lot older than I think you are. Before anybody makes any statements about Bush's deficits they were not in the same league.
Events like hurricanes might be localized but the effects on the people involved are no less severe for that. A major earthquake would be worse if it closed the roads in.
Global warming will also account for a large shift in food production and is already being felt.
Fresh water is already a problem in places and is only going to get worse. Reverse osmosis can help but is very expensive. Where does the money come from when the government is broke?
World wide oil production has pretty much maxed out or may even be declining. If not it won't be long until it is declining but demand is increasing.
Any of these events by itself can be dealt with but the cumulative effects of them are too much for our industrialized society.
The US is touted as the richest country in the world but we aren't anymore and really haven't been in a while. We have no cushion left to deal with these problems so they are going to deal with us.


----------



## NJ Rich (Dec 14, 2005)

Our youngest son, age 36, stopped by today on his lunch time. He was talking about the latest edition of The Rifleman Magazine. I said to him, "You know something serious will likely happen". He said he believes I am right. 

I told him I have been saying for a long time he should stock some food and other items his family needs. I told him we can not afford to stock for everyone in the family. I said, "If we have food for two people for a month and more people come here all the food will be gone very soon. (Now we have more than that as stocks and preps but I just used that as an example) I said if he sees a sale on items they always use buy some extra and store it. I also told him his in-laws would not be coming here and neither would his brothers in-laws. You and your brother with your wives and children would come but no one else.

His in-laws have the means to stock for themselves and daughter, son-in-law and the grandchildren. But the in-laws interest focus around a new car and their favorite sport: Shopping! (but not for food)


----------



## Cyngbaeld (May 20, 2004)

I really doubt the neighbors would be over here looking for groceries. They probably would be trying to avoid anybody they might have to feed. Since they don't know I stock much, I suspect they might be afraid of two extra mouths. Some of them have been in the house and had the tour recently (just had the house renovated and showing it off.) Not much in the way of groceries to be seen. At any rate, I do not have enough to feed the neighborhood. 

As for gardens, mine is small. I don't have extra of anything, not even zukes. What I do have is livestock, but then so do most of the neighbors. They can eat theirs before looking at mine. They can also shoot a few wild hogs if they're hungry. They have more hands, they can plant gardens for themselves. I have a hard enough time feeding myself and daughter. She isn't able to help.

WWJD? There were a lot of poor, hungry people in His time on Earth. We read that he fed the multitude twice and they followed Him wanting more bread. He let them rustle up their own grub except for the two times. It isn't good for people to always be expecting someone else to feed them. Occasionally in an emergency is ok, *IF* they aren't going to keep standing there with their hands out.


----------



## naturelover (Jun 6, 2006)

lorian said:


> they say "Well, I know where I'm coming when the economy goes, then they laugh...."
> 
> .... would you remind refreshing me on your witty replies to others when this comes up? And as I said, I'd rather use humor and kindness to get my point across. Thanks


I think humor and kindness is important in such situations, it can help to establish a better understanding with people that you might need to help you in the future. I do believe in community effort and people pulling together cooperating with each other in emergency situations (and I've seen it happen on more than one occassion), but it's also important to make other people understand that you won't be pushed around.

I have said: "Are you really serious about that or just joking? Because if you are serious we need to make some practical plans now. First of all, we need to discuss what kind of emergency preparations you've already made and how you will contribute to a group effort since there will be several other hungry people here as well."

.


----------



## stranger (Feb 24, 2008)

texican said:


> If the shtf (and I'm hardly ever talking about your afternoon when the powers off for a few hours, and folks without electricity can't cook their meals, but more like the electricity's been off for weeks, and it looks like it's never coming back on, law and order is a faint memory, and a new paradigm is in effect) there'll be no such thing as "one meal", or cooperative communities, sharing.
> 
> Let's just say you live in a satellite surburban community of 500 people. Folks buy their food on a weekly, if not daily basis. You, however, are prepped for a year's troubles for your family of four. After a week, without refrigeration, all of the stores are cleaned out. All food at peoples homes are running out. There are several mass feasts, as freezers are defrosting and folks are chowing down heartily. However, by the end of week two, folks are getting hungry. Very hungry. You feed neighbor Bob and Sue and their kids, they do some work on your farm. However, they come back tomorrow, and the next day they bring Joe and Rita, and their three kids... a few days later the entire community is parked on your doorstep. A committee has organized, and it's their decision that you should 'share'.
> 
> ...


 Exactly right,every word


----------



## manygoatsnmore (Feb 12, 2005)

Someone here posted a great humorous line that I've used a few times. I wish I knew who originally said it so I could give them proper credit. "You're coming here? What's the matter, can't you find a driveway closer to home to be shot?" I know, I know, not politically correct. But when said with the right tone of humor and followed up by talking about preparing right where they are, it can be effective. I have used it at work a couple times, with people that live far enough away from me that I'd be the very last place they're likely to come.


----------



## KimTN (Jan 16, 2007)

When someone says they will come to my place if things get bad, I get really stern with them. I have a copy of emergency supplies made up and food and water to be stored for each person they plan on saving. I tell them that after TSHTF, they are totally not welcome at my place and if they want to live, they will stock up and learn a few things. I tell them that I am helping them now. I also tell them that if they won't make the effort to help themselves, why should I care if they die. I don't like stupid people. This tactic has worked. Many of my friends have started preping.


----------



## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

> The odds of long-term societal upheaval affecting a large region of the country are pretty slim, IMO.


I don't see anyone talking about a "large region"
I see them discussing THEIR HOMES and the surrounding areas


What's happening 20 miles away is often irrelevent


----------



## wottahuzzee (Jul 7, 2006)

"I'm coming to your place when things get bad."

"Yumm, long pork."


----------



## texican (Oct 4, 2003)

rhome said:


> I've been reading threads like this for about 12 years and the same replies happen.
> Charitable to family...up to a certain point.
> Work to stay here.
> Sorry, I'll have to shoot your sorry -----...you were warned.
> ...


Don't get it? Are you saying "good luck with that"? or, was something else left out.

So hard to gauge emotions (sarcasm, facetiousness, etc.) when all there are is words on a screen... hard to type with inflections added...

Do you have an alternative plan? or, over the years, you've come to realize that there is really only a few courses of action.

A. Do nothing and definitely join the compost.
B. Do something and possibly avoid the compost.
or C. Give up and join the compost.

A person that was here a month or so ago, had suicide as his preps. He was talking about discussing this same technique on other boards and found 'few takers'. He or she may still be posting here... don't know. Threatening suicide when I show up at your place, if you won't feed me (and theoretical wife and family) isn't a plan.


----------



## lorian (Sep 4, 2005)

willow_girl said:


> Let's be realistic here. The odds of a wholesale SHTF or TEOTWAWKI during our lifetime is probably slim. Is it really worth alienating someone you like (and, if we're being totally mercenary here, someone who may be of some use to you in the here and now) over the infinitesimally small possibility they may someday be morphed into a "zombie"? Think about it.


I certainly wasn't planning on alienating anyone..that's why I made this thread. How to tell people with KINDNESS, especially if they are serious that they want to come. 

I'm loving the creative replies here..
I like the idea of handing people a list and telling them they better plan on doing the prepping themselves, not enough here for everyone. 
But I'm never going to tell those that I care about that I'd shoot them! Just not my style...
A stranger intending harm, now that's another story. But my sweet sister in law is not going to get a bullet in the back because she wants to feed her children!


----------



## pancho (Oct 23, 2006)

Sometimes a person will change their mind when they get real hungry. 
People have even eaten other people because of hunger. Bet if you asked them before they became hungry if they would ever eat another human
They all would have said they never would.
Hunger makes a person see things a little different.


----------



## KimTN (Jan 16, 2007)

Well then, you will just have to prep for family members that you plan on saving. I have to prep for 3 that won't hear of prepping, but I will have to save them because they are my family. I will crack the whip on them when they show up after the SHTF. They are lazy and entitled, but what do you do with your sister and niece? If they mean that much to you, just prep for them. You can't just take someone in that you haven't prepped for.


----------



## FyredUp (May 22, 2010)

I guess I look at it this way. Who is my primary responsibility to? It is my immediate family. Then it expands only to whom I want to let in to my cricle. I feel no guilt, and no responsibility, to anyone else that simply expects to move in and use my supplies because they failed to lay in their own.

That is not to say I won't, of my own volition, offer charity on occasion IF I can do it safely.


----------



## Narshalla (Sep 11, 2008)

My reply: "Really? What could possibly go wrong that you would need to come here?"

If they actually give examples, I reply with, "Do you _really_ believe that any of that could happen?"

If they continue to pursue the topic, I then ask, "So, you thing this might happen, what are you doing _now_ to prepare for this?"

If they haven't actually thought about doing anything, I ask, "But if you think it might happen, shouldn't you prepare for it?"

That doesn't always solve the problem, but it makes them think.

Right now, though, everyone who knows that I prep is part of my group, and I even store _some_ preps for others.

I am also preping for some who will end up here, even if they don't know that I am (the in-laws, for example.) I am lucky, none of my family lives close enough to show up here, and my preps are not visible, so neighbors don't know about them.


----------



## Madame (Jan 1, 2003)

I have six married siblings, 2 kids (grown), 15 nieces and nephews, and 5 great nieces/nephews. If a SHTF situation ever hit, we'd all pull together to help each other out. I could never turn my back on them.


----------



## willbuck1 (Apr 4, 2010)

A lazy person now will be a lazy person then. You better have a means of enforcing any no work no eat rules and be willing to follow through. Anyone who heads for your home will almost certainly have extras with them. So you better store a lot or make it clear from the beginning that only people on your list can come. My rule is bring extras and not only do they not get in but neither do you. You just showed you can't be trusted to make hard decisions on a life or death matter. Not theirs, your life and mine. You show up with extras and you threaten us all as I do not have the supplies and then if I turn them away I'm putting them out there with the knowledge I have supplies and they may meet others who want to take my supplies. I'm very protective of my kids and let me believe you might possibly be a threat to their survival and I won't have any problem at all with eliminating the potential threat. I may seem heartless but my first responsibility is to them. Second is to my siblings and their kids. Third to neighbors as their continued well being contributes to mine. After that it's sorry but I only have so many resources and they are already spoken for.


----------



## texican (Oct 4, 2003)

willow_girl said:


> Let's be realistic here. The odds of a wholesale SHTF or TEOTWAWKI during our lifetime is probably slim. Is it really worth alienating someone you like (and, if we're being totally mercenary here, someone who may be of some use to you in the here and now) over the infinitesimally small possibility they may someday be morphed into a "zombie"? Think about it.


The odds are slim, can't agree more. However, if one prepares for that scenario, the rest are cake walks.

I think of my 'prepping' as insurance. There is zero downside... everything I've obtained will retain it's value... and be used. Unlike vehicle and home insurance, where you can lose your coverage and lose all the money you've invested over time.

I'll not do my unprepped friends and family any good if I say sure, come on down, and don't worry about a thing. If I let them know how little it costs to get preparedness insurance, and the costs of not having a policy, and there'll be no B&B here, they might just decide to take responsibility for their own selves.

If I alienate someone who doesn't care to take care of their selves, both now and in the future..., I need to know that now... I do know some, and I avoid them like the plague.

Luckily, most of the locals are prepped a lot better than the average citizen.


----------



## manygoatsnmore (Feb 12, 2005)

Narshalla said:


> My reply: "Really? What could possibly go wrong that you would need to come here?"
> 
> If they actually give examples, I reply with, "Do you _really_ believe that any of that could happen?"
> 
> ...


Okay, I LIKE this one!


----------



## gardenmom (Dec 31, 2004)

I smile sweetly and say, "Can't you get shot in a driveway closer to home"?


----------



## westbrook (May 10, 2002)

lorian said:


> I want to have ideas for KIND replies that will encourage others to prep. I'm not into being rude with others, but I want to be blunt in a polite way. I cannot support anyone other than us and my Mom and Dad..which I plan on.
> 
> I know this topic is discussed often on here, but would you remind refreshing me on your witty replies to others when this comes up? And as I said, I'd rather use humor and kindness to get my point across. Thanks



there was a list running around on FLUWIKI several years ago..

This list had everything the creator (of the list) thought she needed these unwanted guests to bring. It said if you can't bring these things then they couldn't come.

if you can't find the list on line then you will need to make up your own.
This list was given to each family or friend that said "I will just come to your house". 

say " oh that would be wonderful! more hands to help!" then hand them the list and say "you will need to bring these things with you when you come"

Clothes for each person.
tooth brush
tooth paste
toilet paper
soap
water (figure out how much you want for each person) XXX gallons per person
food (what you want them to bring for each person for X number months or years.. itemize what you want them to bring that will go with what you are storing)
shovel
rake
sheets
blankets
pillows

in other words itemize exactly what you want.

So what you have actually done is given them a list of what they need to store for themselves.

Then laugh and make light but looking at them in the eyes as you say laughing "if you don't bring these things don't bother to come because all I will have for you is one 9mm" LOLOLOL!

not the original list but you could hand this to them
http://www.fluwiki.info/pmwiki.php?n=Consequences.List


----------



## Pink_Carnation (Apr 21, 2006)

I like what Narshalla said...other than that maybe just joke about if something happened to affect your place and not theirs that you will be coming over there.


----------



## radiofish (Mar 30, 2007)

Well some folks apparently think that WWJD is the answer... 
"God created man, but Samuel Colt made them equal", would be my motto for that question.

Apparently they have not dealt with any parasites and moochers (family or not), when times are 'good'.. 

There ain't no such thing as a free lunch folks. Feed one of them, and as posted above - they will return with friends, and bring friends of their friends looking for some food. Someone posted about putting out a bird feeder and see what happens!! That is a great comparison!

I have had a few folks allude to wanting to come up here when something happens, such as an Earthquake or even more devistating event. Yet these are the same folks that have never come up the hill because it takes about a quarter tank of gas to come up here from town - it is too far away, and give me the reasoning that I have to come down the hill to town anyways. These are also the same folks (acquaintances) that want to go shooting, but have no firearms, ammunition, and expect me to supply everything necessary - free of charge.. I am very glad that they do not know exactly where I am located here at the 'new place'. Gee whiz - I have lived here for 4 years now, and they have never come up the hill yet! It is too inconvienent for them on their weekends to get away from their routine of shopping, watching sports, or just enjoying life in town.

Let them show up at a neighbors driveway, and they can be met with the muzzle end of a weapon held by a total stranger.. I am sure that a total stranger won't take them in, or be willing to give directions if things fall apart that bad.

Plus some folks here on S&EP have stated that they would never eat a military issued "M.R.E." .. I guess that they have never been really hungry. I betcha that in a dire situtation MRE's would be considered 'manna from heaven' by the very hungry unprepared folks!! Or even a stew made of 'road kill' would sound mighty good at some point, say after a month or two of no more food available at any of the supermarkets.

Besides my immediate neighbors that have proven themselves by assisting with the not so fun dirty and physically demanding chores in dealing with everyday life, such as community firewood cutting splitting hauling stacking/ road repair/ gardening/ etc.. I would assist them in a heartbeat, if needed in an emergency!

There are two other persons that I would consider letting come up here, no questions asked. My sweetie and her father, and not because I want some company. They have done gardening/ canning/ and posess other valueable knowledge/ skills. Plus her dad is a WWII, Korea, and early Viet Nam Era Vet/ Retired Navy C.P.O. whom was a U.D.T. frogman (before the Navy SEALS) and is one of the few persons that is not a licensed FFL dealer, that has even more firearms and ammunition than this 'Gun Happy Marine' does. He may be old, but he can still shoot in the X ring, and has the growl/ bite of a rabid pitbull when needed!!

Sorry Charlie, but I am not gonna try and save the unpreparded. 

I can't see my family trying to get 2000 miles from Detroit to here, if things were to go South in a hurry!


----------



## dirty (Oct 14, 2005)

Americans standard of living has risen so high. we now have the luxury of caring for more people than we can care for.

when the standard of living drops far enough, that luxury will disappear. and we will only take care of those we care for. 



:grin:


----------



## Texasdirtdigger (Jan 17, 2010)

There are only 3 folks I will even consider at this time... My aged MIL,. (I owe her that.. she paid off our property, she won't require too much) My dh's cuzn.... he is sorta of Mr.Wizard, MacGyver,and Bill Nye the Science guy resourceful; ( he was doing Solar and dehydrating food when it wasn't cool) and he knows his way around a gun, and a long time friend who is a firearms expert and has quite the candy dish (you know what I mean). I would stake my life on both of these guys, anyday anytime. If some one shows me their TRUE colors and I MEAN TRUE COLORS in the meanwhile....maybe.....but, not likely.


----------



## Mutti (Sep 7, 2002)

Only folks coming here are my two sons. Youngest is in the military, an engineer and his wife is a medic. Avid shooters,too. Next son is a nurse and avid gardener and farmer. His wife is a hard worker and wouldn't be a burden. Their two kids, hmmmm, guess they learn to work if they wanna eat....the youngest is quite interested in beekeeping though and could help DH. My boys were brought up to work hard and will turn their hands to anything. DH can fix anything,period. I will be the chatenline holding the keys to the larder. 

This said I wouldn't let my neighbors starve. They have been a blessing to us over and over and all are in their 80's except once couple . The old timers know more about subsistence living then I ever will. I can always throw more beans in the soup for them.

Personally, I don't anticipate a SHTF event as much as a faster and faster spiraling down where everyone is joining the poverty class....so many people out there that keep trying to live the life they had with blinkers on......DEE


----------



## 7thswan (Nov 18, 2008)

Ya know I have a stash of canned corn,beans,carrots from the grocery. I'll never use them as I cann, but they would be good to give to someone else that comes aknocking.


----------



## wogglebug (May 22, 2004)

They say "I'm coming here if things go bad."

You look them up and down and say "Please don't. I hate butchering anything I've made a pet of, but I just won't have spare food to feed mouths that don't fit into the plan." Grin a mean little grin, as if you might be joking, then go on to other subjects, and refuse to discuss it further.


----------



## bowdonkey (Oct 6, 2007)

gardenmom said:


> I smile sweetly and say, "Can't you get shot in a driveway closer to home"?


LMAO, I can't wait to tell this one at work.


----------



## ovsfarm (Jan 14, 2003)

radiofish said:


> Well some folks apparently think that WWJD is the answer...
> "God created man, but Samuel Colt made them equal", would be my motto for that question.


This is covered in the Bible.

"For even when we were with you, this we commanded you, that if any would not work, neither should he eat." 2 Thessalonians 3:10

Sounds pretty clear to me.


----------



## Cyngbaeld (May 20, 2004)

The Bible also clearly states that we are to take care of our family first, particularly our aged parents, our widowed and our fatherless relatives. We are NOT to steal their food and their living to give to anybody else. That includes other fatherless, widows and poor. We are to give, yes, but out of our own substance and not what we owe to our dependent/needy relatives.

I tithe and give in the here and now. I purchase storage food after tithing. This is for my daughter, for me ( her care giver), and for my (now husbandless) sister and her children if they are in need. I have no right to take their food and give it to anybody else. If I give my own food away, I will not be able to care for my handicapped daughter and she will die without proper care. So I cannot give away my food either. That doesn't mean I think I have more "right" to eat than anybody else. It does mean I have a right to the fruits of my own labor.

If the Lord sends an orphaned young child to my doorstep I will pray about it and most likely add it to the family. That is assuming, of course, that the normal social structure is broken down, as it would be illegal to do it in our present society. 

In a societal breakdown it would be foolish and dangerous to feed strangers or even acquaintances, from your door. None of us has the means to feed all comers, including family that could provide for themselves and their dependents. If we did, I doubt we'd be hanging around a survival site.


----------



## Rourke (Jul 15, 2010)

In my plannig I am anticipating visitors - with no evil intent. Regardless of there intent - limited assistance can be provided or I risk sacrificing my family which is unacceptable.

Getting a few inexpensive backpack and putting together some small cheap survival kits with supplies - and handing them out to those friends that I care about - but explaining that "that is it" -is planned.

God help them should they attempt to take anything by force- into the compost bin with them!!

Rourke
ModernSurvivalOnline.com


----------



## rhome (Aug 10, 2006)

Hey Texican, My "plan" is to stay flexible, innovative, and have the ability to improvise for a regional, national event, crisis, or collapse.
Neighbors and friends are well covered and the few city friends wouldnt make it out of the belly of the beast or they would go to their own family.

Here's one more thing I'll add to the mix of this thread...
Winter weather conditions for those " show up friends" you may have to deal with.
They could put even more demand on your limited resources...heat, water and sanitation.
Good luck


----------

