# Why helmets are a good idea



## birchtreefarm (Jul 22, 2007)

I know not everyone wears them. And if you are an adult, you can make that decision and I'm not going to say anything. But stuff like this is why I wear a helmet. 

http://www.riders4helmets.com/2013/04/teenage-kicked-in-head-by-horse-after-falling-while-jumping/

I also think this horse has a problem, because this was clearly not an accidental kick, and I don't care what kind of "bond" she has with the horse. But I think without the helmet, she would have been dead or very very damaged for the rest of her life.


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## nostawmama (Dec 29, 2011)

Ouch! Yeah def not accidental. That horse sized up the downed rider and intentionally struck out! Helmets are a good idea, no matter the age.


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## Fetherhd (Aug 16, 2012)

WOW...that was a deliberate kick NOT an accident. I hope that they address that little prob before he hurts someone. Good thing she was wearing a helmet....good thing her face was not turned towards the horse when he kicked.


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## Fetherhd (Aug 16, 2012)

A point. I know of a rider that was leading her horse down the barn isle. He reared and brought a front hoof down on the top of her head. She was severely brain damaged. If I am working with my horses even if it is just from the ground....I wear my helmet....period.


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## bergere (May 11, 2002)

That horse would be dog meat.... there are to many good horse's out there, to deal with something like that.
Glad she is going to be ok....


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## Otter (Jan 15, 2008)

But, but, but, everyone knows that horses have a magykal bond with their owners and never kick out of aggression....

Sigh. 
At least she was wearing a helmet. That was a death blow right there. And a very, very deliberate one. I wonder what else has Duke "didn't _really_ mean it" done?


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## 1sttimemom (Mar 1, 2005)

Wow, that is scary!!! She is a lucky girl. I have fallen off many horses over the years and most will go out of their way to AVOID hurting or stepping on a downed rider.


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## simi-steading (Sep 27, 2012)

Hope that girl doesn't end up dead with that horse... Her saying it did it because it was scared is just flat out denial... 

I think what some people forget, is that a horse or any other farm animal for that matter is still a wild animal, no matter how much we like to think we've domesticated them... 

Never turn your back on a large animal no matter how much you trust them and how tame you think they are.

That horse would have been gone if that would have been my kid... I can't see ever trusting it...


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## wannabechef (Nov 20, 2012)

That horse would be dog food if it were mine.


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## GrannyCarol (Mar 23, 2005)

I've fallen off many horses in my teen years... NONE of them ever did anything like that, they never touched me and tried to avoid harm, even the one that was untrained before she was 7 years old. Horses KNOW where their feet are, they aren't stupid. I agree, he kicked her on purpose and I can't imagine looking at that video and keeping that horse.


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## levi1739 (Jul 25, 2003)

I find myself wondering how Ray Hunt or any real horsemen might respond to this video. I've heard Mr. Hunt tell people what might happen if he was a horse and treated like many humans treat their horses. Maybe the human was deserving of a kick in the head (I am sorry the girl was hurt). Look at the jump, look at the riding surface and maybe you can see some reasons that horse was ----ed off.

Just saying,

Have fun, be safe

Jack


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## wr (Aug 10, 2003)

Jack, I'm a huge Ray Hunt fan and do work hard to make sure my horses are treated well but they're ranch horses and they're often asked to work and work hard in less than ideal conditions and in my opinion, that is no excuse for any horse to deliberately line up to kick anybody in the head. 

The horse in the video is going to hurt someone badly if not dealt with soon and iff I'm not mistaken, Ray Hunt also said that no horse should be allowed to abuse humans.


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## 2horses (Jul 19, 2004)

Yeah, I'd say the horse got his point across. The question would be if that was typical or not. I agree he kicked _at_ her on purpose, but think it's just chance that he connected. I highly doubt he specifically aimed for her head, it just happened to be closest to his hind foot. I've had bad-tempered horses kick me on purpose before, and I bet most of y'all on here have as well. If this horse has done it before and been allowed to get away with it, then he would have no compunction doing so when he's ----ed.

Another question is, can you break a confirmed kicker from kicking? I never got it out of the one I had, and he actually put me in the hospital when I was working on a hind and he kicked me in the face. This was many years ago, way before helmets were so prevalent. I doubt I would have worn one while working with him on he ground, like I still don't now - even though I never mount without one.

Regardless, I'm glad the girl was wearing hers and is okay as a result - let that be yet another lesson to all of us.


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## Otter (Jan 15, 2008)

levi1739 said:


> Look at the jump, look at the riding surface and maybe you can see some reasons that horse was ----ed off.


Aww was de po wittle hossie being horribly abused by going over an 18 inch jump on barely snowy ground???

I think not.

I've asked horses - no, check that, I've _made_ horses do a HECK of a lot more then that. They are big strong animals and - amazing though it seems - don't melt in the rain or freeze in the snow. I hesitate more to work a horse when it's hot, they love the cold, but start to feel the heat at a mere 70 degrees.
But even then, a little sweat won't kill them.

As far as what "real horseman" would say is; having spent hours upon hours on horseback in many conditions, the horse trying to kill me is not an acceptable response. And what they would do? The only thing I know is put the fear of god in them. 
By which _no one_ means abuse.
My mare is as big a pet as you make her or as rank a hellion as you let her be. She knows better then to so much as pin her ears within 10 feet of me - why? Because I am the top horse. And if you watch horses out in a herd, if anyone so much as pins an ear anywhere near the top horse, TH goes _Excuse you?_ and the sinner instantly says_ SorrymaamIdidn'tmeanyouitwillneverhappenagain_ and if they don't, then TH drives them out.



2horses said:


> I agree he kicked _at_ her on purpose, but think it's just chance that he connected. I highly doubt he specifically aimed for her head, it just happened to be closest to his hind foot.


Let's put that in perspective
_Gee, I'm sorry. I'm sure Junior didn't _mean_ to shoot you in the head. He was just shooting_ at _you_.
It is NOT just chance when a horse connects. They are aware of their bodies and surroundings to a degree that most humans can not comprehend, not being prey animals.
He kicked her.
He meant it.
There is no excuse.


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## levi1739 (Jul 25, 2003)

All I'm saying is that a 14 second video doesn't tell the whole story. I know nothing about this horse or rider and don't care to speculate on why the horse behaved as it did. There are many things that may have been the cause but in my experience most "mean" horses have been made that way by a human. 

Have fun, be safe

Jack


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## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

wr said:


> Jack, I'm a huge Ray Hunt fan and do work hard to make sure my horses are treated well but they're ranch horses and they're often asked to work and work hard in less than ideal conditions and in my opinion, that is no excuse for any horse to deliberately line up to kick anybody in the head.
> 
> The horse in the video is going to hurt someone badly if not dealt with soon and iff I'm not mistaken, Ray Hunt also said that no horse should be allowed to abuse humans.


Somehow I doubt Ray Hunt would have said "Look at that girl making that horse work under less than perfect conditions. He has the right to kick her in the head." He absolutely did _not_ support letting a horse call the shots. 

Some people are getting very close to anthropomorphizing horses in their effort to "understand" them imho.


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## levi1739 (Jul 25, 2003)

Horses don't do wrong things - horses are never wrong. ~ Ray Hunt


Have fun, be safe

Jack


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## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

I can Google Ray Hunt quotes too, "And if I'm going to survive riding him, it won't work for him to step on me or kick me or buck me off or crawl on top of me. On the other hand, I'm not going to ask him for something that would put his life in danger. Once we know that about each other, we can get along."


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## Otter (Jan 15, 2008)

levi1739 said:


> There are many things that may have been the cause but in my experience most "mean" horses have been made that way by a human.


Sure are!!

Not by the horrid, gut-wrenching abuse of being asked to <gasp> work. But by "Spoiled Brat Syndrome" where the horse is clearly pushing boundaries and it's _horses can do no wrong_ owner is convinced that _Love_ is the answer.

You're right - this poor, well-meaning, Black Beauty reading child has made a mistake. But she hardly deserves death for being too nice to her horse and attitudes like _ "Maybe the human was deserving of a kick in the head ... Look at the jump, look at the riding surface and maybe you can see some reasons that horse was ----ed off._" are hardly going to help her correct her mistake.


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## wr (Aug 10, 2003)

I do feel that most problem horses are caused by humans but it isn't always the rider that creates the problem. Often, it's simply gaps in training and riders find ways to work around the gaps until the problem becomes too big to ignore. 

Work is good for horses and in my opinion they need it but behaviors like that shown are, in my opinion, never justified.


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## 2horses (Jul 19, 2004)

Otter said:


> He kicked her.
> He meant it.
> There is no excuse.


Well, then, let's just shoot him now...........

Not trying to excuse it, just wondering why and if it can be fixed is all. I agree he meant it. I don't agree he reasoned out that kicking her in the head would be the quickest way to kill her - although, thinking about prey animals - perhaps there is a correlation after all?


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## Otter (Jan 15, 2008)

2horses, once it gets to that point shown in the video - maybe not.
And honestly - call me cold-hearted if you want - but first I'd look at the economics and logistics of even bothering. What makes THIS horse so very much worth saving, worth all the time and training and money that will need poured into him, and how many other horses could we (save) bring to that point in training for the same amount?
And honestly, I would never trust him.
Horses remember things *forever*. This can be a good or a bad thing, and here, it's a bad one.

So, is this horse worth more then the 4 others we could save - the 4 others who may become trustworthy mounts, whereas no matter what, you'll always need to have this guy with someone who'll keep an eye on him.
~We could argue that it's not his fault. Well, it's not the other 4 horses fault either, and there are many horses who won't take advantage of an overly permissive owner by turning lethal.

Assuming the answer is yes, then this horse needs the fear of God put in him. And as far as he is concerned, I am God. Do you know about NILIF training for dogs? Just like that and lots and lots and LOTS of jumping on his case for the smallest stepping out of line - just like his momma would; _What?! You wanna curl your nostrils at ME? You can do it while I chase your arrogant little tail across the pasture. Run mule! Run like I mean it!_

And, depending on the horse, it may or may not work. Anyone who's worked enough horses has come across one that makes you want to say "Why don't we just save you, me, and above all, this horse, lots of grief and sweat and blood and tears and put a bullet in him."
Sometimes training - even the best training - is just not enough.
No way of knowing if that is the case here, without actually working with the horse. But why is it that we can accept that people can be depressive, bi-polar, physically non-functioning in some ways - but not that dogs and horses are sometimes too? You can give a person therapy or medication or different kinds of help. But often for an animal, the kindest thing is to put them down. Before they hurt themselves or kill someone.

And yes, a wild horse WILL aim for an animals head. Folks have seen plenty of wolves with heads staved in or lower jaws ripped clean off by a horse's kick. If stallions are fighting, as soon as one stallion starts to go down, the winning stallion goes right for the head. It's pretty gruesome. 
In the video watch the horse's face, eyes and ears, you can see him turn, look, aim and then kick.


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## DaniR1968 (May 24, 2008)

This is being discussed on the COTH forums. There is a link to other videos posted of this horse and rider. I think one was titled RedDevil and Rosie or something like that. She falls off a lot; and does lots of stupid stuff on him. She also taught him to rear. He almost went over rearing on wet pavement. She jumps bareback, stands on him with no bridle or halter. Lots of unsafe things. 

I think he got fed up. Not that she deserved a kick to the head but he did put up with a lot before reaching that point.


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## Lisa in WA (Oct 11, 2004)

Thanks Dani!

*This one shows how she rides the pony. *

http://www.youtube.com/user/LukeyLooandRosie




and here is the damage done: [ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r7ftrBR79Is&list=UUV57NSCnfwFicfP_6ZEVUqg[/ame]

I think this kid's parents are absolutely nuts for allowing their daughter to behave this way on a horse. They must have seen these videos and be aware of what she's doing. I would have killed Caroline if I saw her behaving like this. They're lucky she's not dead.
Def not excusing what the horse did, but standing on a blanketed horse sans halter, leadrope or bridle, in a pasture, and asking the horse to move out? Good grief.


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## Otter (Jan 15, 2008)

Lisa, having watched the other videos, I agree with you that were she mine, she wouldn't get away with any bit of that and her parents need a stupidity slap upside the head. I can't stand when parents give a child something that can kill them (horses, atv's, trampolines) and then go merrily on their way, leaving the kid to kill itself

DaniR - there is a huge difference between stupid stunts, bad horsemanship, and abuse. This girls shows LOTS of the first 2 - but very little of the second. Rearing on pavement is the only thing that will actually hurt the horse.
Riding bareback, falling off, standing on him, riding with just a halter - these are all none too good ideas, and watching the videos makes my teeth grind and as an instructor I want to reach through the screen, give pony a come-to-jesus-meeting and put them both on a lunge line - but honestly, from the horse's viewpoint, it's no biggie. It's not painful, it's not abuse and actually most times she falls, she does a pretty good job of staying out of his mouth.
None of this deserves a kick to the head.


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## 2horses (Jul 19, 2004)

If the video is chronological, he was either badly started or very green when she got him, as it seems the fist batch of jumping attempts have him thinking of bucking, etc. - and he has really poor form. Eventually she gets him over higher jumps and he doesn't seem to resist it as much, pulls his knees up better - but still looks like he just isn't all that confident. Or maybe he was just a spoiled brat when she got him, and she's brought him along pretty good? Hard to know. 

I have to ask though - how many of those stunts did some of us pull as teens with our first horses? I know I did some really stupid things back then that I would never even think of doing now. Including the move that got me kicked in the face.


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## simi-steading (Sep 27, 2012)

I think she'd probably do better with a different hobby that didn't include animals..


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## wr (Aug 10, 2003)

The thing about kids is that they're going ot dumb things, or at least mine did and I did before them. It's taken the old rancher about 45 years to get over an unforunate incident involving his brand new grass rope, a bad tempered pony, a baby buggy and my sister as the damsel in the carriage. Things were pretty exciting for a while but everybody survived. 

We could write a book on the test pilot and his sister's poor judgement as well but no kids or horses were ever harmed.


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## DaniR1968 (May 24, 2008)

Otter, I never said she deserved a kick to the head. I simply said I thought the pony got fed up. 

I think a lot of people saw the video and the immediate response is to think the horse is nasty and should be euthanized. The other videos show her falling a lot and doing other stupid stuff without him kicking. That doesn't mean he gets a free pass. He needs a "come to Jesus" meeting and the girl has hopefully learned that she doesn't have quite the "majical" bond she thought they did and has hopefully learned something from this.


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## TroutRiver (Nov 26, 2010)

Sorry, but when I watch that video, I see a reckless rider on a horse that looks like he is too much for her. I was 18 once too and thought I could handle any horse. I too have been kicked in the head, broke my jaw, and I never once blamed the horse. I pushed her too far out of her comfort zone, she was confused and nervous, and frankly I was asking for it, but didn't realize it at the time. Once that horse was in the right hands, she turned into a wonderful lesson horse. She was too much for an intermediate teenager to train. But of course at the time I thought I was one of the best riders around. Now I know better. 

Poor girl learned a lesson the hard way. Horses are big, powerful animals, not things to play with. This is also a big part of why I don't ever put shoes on my horses, especially not on their back feet. I did not have a big gash in my face like that, the horse that kicked me was barefoot.

I think this horse needs a real trainer or someone is going to get hurt again, or worse.


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## Minelson (Oct 16, 2007)

She is a dumb kid...just like I was many years ago. How I survived I have no clue


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