# I really can't believe it



## Harry Chickpea (Dec 19, 2008)

I have to shake my head in disbelief myself - that people can be SO in denial to repetitive dangers that they pass off yet another sign with a casual "I really can't believe it." Believe reality. Don't build your house on a sandy seashore, a known tornado path, a path of past avalanches, a known flood zone. If you do, and your home is destroyed or damaged don't do a public whinge. It really makes me wonder about your sanity.

Yeah, these things can also happen as a one-off event, but when places like Moore have been REPEATEDLY hit by tornadoes, there can be no expectation that they won't return.
"
A tornado also caused minor damage in the Oklahoma City suburb of Moore â the scene of a massive and deadly twister in 2013 that killed 24 people and injured more than 300 others. 



Interstate 35 was closed through Moore, where the National Weather Service said overturned cars were littering the freeway in both directions. Moore police Sgt. Jeremy Lewis said officers were checking unconfirmed reports of minor injuries, and a hazmat team was responding to a tanker that had overturned. 
"*I really can't believe it.* You know, we just experienced some of this a couple of years ago," Lewis told NBC station KFOR. "Just so soon â it's difficult."" -well *DUH*



http://www.nbcnews.com/news/weather/extremely-dangerous-tornado-heading-tulsa-oklahoma-area-n330246


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## BlackFeather (Jun 17, 2014)

That's been my gripe for a while. People build in the flood plain of the Mississippi river and wonder why they get flooded out. My cousin built a house in a tornado area and it was designed in the side of a hill so it would be underground. He didn't want his house to blow away. Flood plains should be used for farm land, then the worst thing is a damaged crop not your house floating away. The same with hurricanes and the outer banks of the Carolinas, they are nothing but sand bars and they build expensive houses that collapse when hurricane waters wash out the foundations. I guess the question is why would an insurance company insure places in disaster areas?


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## tab (Aug 20, 2002)

Federal dollats often go to the "disaster areas". You and I help subsidize the stupidity. Often of the excessiely rich. Some of the houses that repeatedly flood on ocean frontage are not little shanties.


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## 7thswan (Nov 18, 2008)

They are told "it's an act of God". So, who knows what some people think? Why did this happen to me??? Uh, because this is the earth and "things" happen? If you were to tell these same people they should have prepared better, they would look at You like You had 2 heads.


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## bowdonkey (Oct 6, 2007)

tab said:


> Federal dollats often go to the "disaster areas". You and I help subsidize the stupidity. Often of the excessiely rich. Some of the houses that repeatedly flood on ocean frontage are not little shanties.


Very true of Hilton Head. The govt said they would insure it in order to encourage its development. Every time a hurricane wrecks it, it's built back better than before.


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## mnn2501 (Apr 2, 2008)

Home owners insurance is available to everyone. As far as I am concerned if you don't have it and your house gets destroyed - too bad.

As the risk goes up so does the cost, don't like the high cost? - then don't build in a high risk area.


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## 7thswan (Nov 18, 2008)

mnn2501 said:


> Home owners insurance is available to everyone. As far as I am concerned if you don't have it and your house gets destroyed - too bad.
> 
> As the risk goes up so does the cost, don't like the high cost? - then don't build in a high risk area.


We've had a number of co's refuse to give us insurance. And to take it away. Stupid things like the logs for firewood is a tripping hazard.


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## Old Vet (Oct 15, 2006)

Yep those in Tulsa should move to some place that doesn't have Tornado like where? Tornadoes have happened all over the world. The ones that live on the coast should move at least 100 miles inland but then you will find things like flood planes or the mountains would become much more populated like New York. In other words you can't find a pure safe place to live. You must take a chance in living anywhere and need to be aware of the risks.


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## Harry Chickpea (Dec 19, 2008)

Old Vet said:


> Yep those in Tulsa should move to some place that doesn't have Tornado like where? Tornadoes have happened all over the world. The ones that live on the coast should move at least 100 miles inland but then you will find things like flood planes or the mountains would become much more populated like New York. In other words you can't find a pure safe place to live. You must take a chance in living anywhere and need to be aware of the risks.


You can live near train tracks, or attempt to live ON train tracks. Certainly no place is 100% safe, but some places count as almost 100% NOT safe. I've done the tornado tracking maps before, showing that there are areas within 30 miles of Moore that are far less prone to tornadoes. In any event, my post was not to demand people move, but that if they make a CONSCIOUS CHOICE to live in a known dangerous area, that they not get away with acting surprised when something happens. By the time most people are six they have that game all figured out.


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## mnn2501 (Apr 2, 2008)

7thswan said:


> We've had a number of co's refuse to give us insurance. And to take it away. Stupid things like the logs for firewood is a tripping hazard.


Yeah, but I bet you could find it with some other company.

State Farm left this area for a few years, now they're back. I went with another company that was actually a bit cheaper for the same coverage


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## Old Vet (Oct 15, 2006)

Harry Chickpea said:


> You can live near train tracks, or attempt to live ON train tracks. Certainly no place is 100% safe, but some places count as almost 100% NOT safe. I've done the tornado tracking maps before, showing that there are areas within 30 miles of Moore that are far less prone to tornadoes. In any event, my post was not to demand people move, but that if they make a CONSCIOUS CHOICE to live in a known dangerous area, that they not get away with acting surprised when something happens. By the time most people are six they have that game all figured out.


Can you guarantee that is true? You can do all the tornado tracking maps you want to but will it have any value in the future? They had a article on the CBS Evening News and they said it was bad luck and nothing more. But of course you may know more than the experts.


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## Welshmom (Sep 7, 2008)

Two tornadoes in two years sounds like real bad luck to me. I'm guessing most residents there have lived there longer than one year. I don't know what the historical tornado statistics for that town are, but by your reckoning, people should have known after the one last year that they would get hit again this year?


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## Jolly (Jan 8, 2004)

Well...sorta...

This year is shaping up as maybe one of the worst flood years down here, since 1973.

When something like this happens just once every 40 years, or so, it's hard to fault people for building where it may flood.


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## BlackFeather (Jun 17, 2014)

Is this the same idea as building a big city in the middle of the desert then wondering why your running out of water?


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## Ozarks Tom (May 27, 2011)

I have a brother-in-law in Moore, and admittedly he's not too bright, but even he knows living there is taking a short odds chance of getting blown away. My wife was raised in Mustang Oklahoma, a SW suburb of OKC. She tells of all the times they'd watch tornadoes go by from their front porch.

Some people find ways to rationalize submitting themselves to a hazard in lieu of changing their lives.


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## Harry Chickpea (Dec 19, 2008)

Old Vet said:


> Can you guarantee that is true? You can do all the tornado tracking maps you want to but will it have any value in the future? They had a article on the CBS Evening News and they said it was bad luck and nothing more. But of course you may know more than the experts.


I watch EVERY YEAR during tornado season and see the SAME patterns around here. If you are up for it, I will do better than guarantee - over the next 24 months if there is not a tornado that starts within 20 miles of Decatur AL and goes for at least three miles in the direction of Huntsville, I will GIVE you $10. No need for you to even bet against me, I am that certain.

Moore has had at least FOUR major tornadoes cross paths in a schoolyard over the past few years. 

Do I know more than the experts? Define "know." Have I studied meteorology for years, learning the required courses, no. But then neither did all of the birds that abandoned an area last year that was about to be devastated by tornadoes, only to come back after the outbreak had passed. Can I guarantee the water will come out of my shower nozzle every time I open the shower valve? No. Can I guarantee that it will snow here next winter? No. Can I make a reasonable estimation that those things will happen? Yes.


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## manygoatsnmore (Feb 12, 2005)

7thswan said:


> They are told "it's an act of God". So, who knows what some people think? Why did this happen to me??? Uh, because this is the earth and "things" happen? If you were to tell these same people they should have prepared better, they would look at You like You had 2 heads.


Wait...what? You *don't* have 2 heads? :whistlin:


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## manygoatsnmore (Feb 12, 2005)

mnn2501 said:


> Home owners insurance is available to everyone. As far as I am concerned if you don't have it and your house gets destroyed - too bad.
> 
> As the risk goes up so does the cost, don't like the high cost? - then don't build in a high risk area.


Don't forget, home owner's doesn't cover floods and nothing covers having your house slide down the hill.


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## Astrid (Nov 13, 2010)

It seems anyone with a survival mindset should read Strategic Relocation. Joel Skousen lays it all out very clearly and methodically. http://www.joelskousen.com/strategic.html
IMO people stay in dangerous places because it's where they are from and they have a job wherever they are. Doesn't make sense to put one's job over one's health and wellbeing though.


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## Vahomesteaders (Jun 4, 2014)

I have often wondered why they keep building mobile parks in tornado alley. Makes no sense.


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## Harry Chickpea (Dec 19, 2008)

Vahomesteaders said:


> I have often wondered why they keep building mobile parks in tornado alley. Makes no sense.


I used to think that, but in a way it makes sense. An EF-1 can take out a mobile home (+- $50K). An EF-3 can take out or damage most stick builts to the point of needing to be razed. (+-$200K). It is a similar idea to what the natives in Florida had - there wasn't a lot invested in their huts, so that when they were destroyed they just re-made them. There were major building abandoned after Hurricane Andrew.

Also, many of the more modern homes are much more structurally sound.


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## tab (Aug 20, 2002)

Building technique and materials matter. Hurricane strapping as a small example. Poured concrete, few windows, underground, etc. Build according to the risks. No one can cover all the bases but be real. Building in an area that is below sea level and removing swamps may not be the best idea in the world.


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## Nimrod (Jun 8, 2010)

Folks build homes in flood zones because most of the time they get to enjoy the water. When the floods come and wipe out the house they have the insurance to pay for rebuilding. 

I suggest that we do away with flood insurance. If you want to enjoy the waterfront, you should pay the cost of replacing your house every so often. Flood insurance just puts that expense on others.


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## michael ark (Dec 11, 2013)

No matter where you go something can kill you or wreck your life and property.Up north its blizzards in the south the heat and tornadoes will kill you .East you have nor'easters and hurricanes west you have earthquakes and hurricanes and wildfires. Looks like if god wants you he will take you no matter where you are.


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## Harry Chickpea (Dec 19, 2008)

"Looks like if god wants you he will take you no matter where you are."

A couple years back in one of the tornado cleanups they found a man sitting in a chair in his home. He had been crushed by TWO trees coming from different directions. Somehow, I think his time was up and there was no mistake.


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## mnn2501 (Apr 2, 2008)

manygoatsnmore said:


> Don't forget, home owner's doesn't cover floods and nothing covers having your house slide down the hill.


So, you build your house in a flood zone (even a 100 year flood zone) and don't have flood insurance why would you expect the taxpayers to fund your foolish decision?
Sorry, either get insurance(paying the higher premium for your decision) or don't take the chance - Build elsewhere.


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## Cygnet (Sep 13, 2004)

BlackFeather said:


> Is this the same idea as building a big city in the middle of the desert then wondering why your running out of water?


Just as a comment to this -- Phoenix is in the middle of a desert, and has a more than ample supply of water. They're a bit short on clean air and sometimes the electrical supply struggles to keep ahead of the AC usage, but water's not a huge issue. 

On the other hand, there are parts of the Phoenix metro area that are not marked as "flood zones" that really should be. That'd be pretty much all of the City of Maricopa (which could end up being Arizona's answer to Katrina, complete with dikes built of sand), anything near a raised freeway or canal where pumping is required to remove excess water, large areas bordering major washes, and assorted hot spots here and there that have always had flooding issues, and likely always will.

Because they're not marked as flood zones, and because Phoenix's population is so new, and because historical flood information is scanty and hard to research even if they wanted to, few people have flood insurance. And then they wail, "It's the desert! It's not supposed to flood in the desert!" 

And the locals who've been here forever and ever roll their eyes and say, "Let me tell you about 1980."


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## Mutti (Sep 7, 2002)

Unwittingly, we picked the perfect spot in MO. The tornadoes track up along I-44 or south on the Mo/AR border. The old timers that have lived all their lives in this area say there has never been a tornado in our valley.


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## Cygnet (Sep 13, 2004)

Harry Chickpea said:


> I used to think that, but in a way it makes sense. An EF-1 can take out a mobile home (+- $50K). An EF-3 can take out or damage most stick builts to the point of needing to be razed. (+-$200K). It is a similar idea to what the natives in Florida had - there wasn't a lot invested in their huts, so that when they were destroyed they just re-made them. There were major building abandoned after Hurricane Andrew.
> 
> Also, many of the more modern homes are much more structurally sound.



Re: Structurally sound -- I had a doublewide made around 1999 that survived a major microburst. Winds were estimated to be + 100mph. I had a few broken windows from golf ball sized hail and some shingles missing from the roof. Even the skirting stayed put. (Replacing the shingles was as easy as climbing up there and nailing new ones down, since there was no underlying structural damage. The roof didn't leak and we got 4" of rain in an hour from that storm.)

Nearby custom homes had missing slabs of stucco, porches torn off, and roof damage, including mexican tile that went flying. 

I was pretty impressed -- and pleased -- by the way my home weathered the storm. The insurance appraiser (for the busted windows) said, "Yeah, they're designed to go down the highway at 70mph while cut in half. They'll take a storm pretty good." LOLOLOL! 

The only damage I saw to any modern mobile home was broken windows, excepting one small singlewide trailer that got picked up and chucked a few hundred yards across a field. I'm guessing they didn't tie it down.


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## terri9630 (Mar 12, 2012)

A few years ago (2006ish) there were areas of El Paso that had 5 feet of standing water. The people that were trying to get their properties removed from the "flood zones" so they didn't have to pay the insurance were on TV telling the reporters how glad they were that they had been forced to buy the insurance. My in-laws have lived there for almost 40 years and have never seen it flood like that.


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