# The Crazies



## Trixie (Aug 25, 2006)

What is causing the increase in violence. I'm speaking of the shootings, etc.
Not the one on one - or even drug wars - but the shootings like the TV reporter, schools, etc?

Are these people just defective?

Are they all on drugs? Were they all, or most, on prescription drugs of some kind?

Are they influenced by the media - by violent movies - by video games?

Is there a darker explanation?


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## gibbsgirl (May 1, 2013)

Yes. Yes. And so on.


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## poppy (Feb 21, 2008)

Probably as many reasons as there are killers. Some say we just notice it more because of more nationwide news coverage but I don't buy it. Yes, people have always murdered other people but it was generally in a dispute of some kind. I do not believe all these random murders were happening at this level in the past. Society is declining in several ways. The Bible says it will happen but those who don't believe in the Bible are free to opine on their reasons.


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## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

Yes, to most of your questions. 

Although I think if they were consistently *on* anti psychotic prescription drugs there would be less violence.


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## gibbsgirl (May 1, 2013)

I think your points are on the right track.

The "western world" is also fast becoming a place where many people because of our fake propped up credit laden society gave too much free time on their hands.

For many people, gone are the days when your community was small and your daily life kept you busy (and out of trouble) from sun up to sun down. 

So, I think that is part of what's also shaping these types of terrible violence.

On the other hand....I think humanity and the world is also a part if it. Human history in all times and all places is chock full of long and short and large and small episodes of terrible violence. The details are frequently contemporary, but the facts if violence are still there.

We're much more physically mobile and digitally connected now. So, it seems finding pockets in which to peacefully exist are becoming fewer and further between.


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

There is no "increase in violence"

There is an increase in reporting every incident that a few years ago would have only made the local news


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## Trixie (Aug 25, 2006)

Yes, the world has always been a violent place. 

I'm speaking of this country - not the rest of the world. 

Also, I'm talking about the mass shootings, etc. Not the gang shootings - as senseless as they may be.

Oh, no, it can't just be glossed over with the idea that 'there is no increase in violence'. Again, I'm talking about the things on the level of the reporter shooting, schools, theatres, etc. 

Also, we are supposed to be a law abiding country. We spend a lot of money on law enforcement, intervention, etc. We are a country where people shouldn't have to go hungry.

In other words, it can't really be the desperation of the lack of basics.

Just my opinion - but it seems some, don't know how many, of these people were on drugs. It is apparent either they weren't taking them, or not taking them correctly, or their problem has progressed. 

So again, what part could drugs - taken as prescribed or not - had in these? Also, should some thought be given to the fact that some people on these drugs are there for something more serious than mild depression. They are evidently having trouble controlling their emotions, urges, etc. So should they be started on these drugs, given a bottle of them and then fully expect them to take them as prescribed.


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## gapeach (Dec 23, 2011)

*The Latest: Obama calls TV shooting heartbreaking*


MONETA, Va. (AP) &#8212; The latest on the on-air killing of two TV station employees in Virginia (all times local):

8 p.m.
President Barack Obama says the fatal on-air shooting of two Virginia TV station employees is heartbreaking.
Obama says "it breaks my heart every time" he reads or hears about these kinds of incidents.
*"What we know is that the number of people who die from gun-related incidents around this country dwarfs any deaths that happen through terrorism," he said.*
http://www.roanoke.com/news/wire_he...cle_b45956a6-46f5-5798-ad91-7bf8ad03c155.html

My heart breaks for the families and fiancees, friends of the 2 murdered young people in Virginia yesterday. Also for the family of Vester Flanagan. I saw an interview with them and their family spokesperson. They are as shocked and grieved as any one else.

However, I do not agree with this statement from the president. The two are not comparable. If he feels like this, why does he never say anything about the gun related incidents that happen in his own home town of Chicago daily and nightly?

Why is he so slow to call a terrorist attack terrorism?


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## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

Trixie said:


> Yes, the world has always been a violent place.
> 
> I'm speaking of this country - not the rest of the world.
> 
> ...


Exactly. They are on meds, feel better, decide they aren't sick and no longer need the meds. I've seen it over and over. The problem is when they're off the meds.

There is no easy way of dealing with this situation. The mentally ill have rights and it takes a bit of doing to get someone confined and/or medicated. The people that can be injured have rights too. It's a mess.

There really isn't more violence now- it's just _all_ instantly reported.


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## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

gapeach said:


> *The Latest: Obama calls TV shooting heartbreaking*
> 
> 
> MONETA, Va. (AP) &#8212; The latest on the on-air killing of two TV station employees in Virginia (all times local):
> ...


Your political hatred of the President isn't needed in this solemn event. Have some decency.


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## gapeach (Dec 23, 2011)

When did you become a moderator?


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## FarmerKat (Jul 3, 2014)

I think that Bearfootfarm has a good point. And I think that is a good part of the perception that there is more of it. 

I also think that with modern technology, people today live in a separate reality and do not have real, human to human relationships on the same level prior generations used to have. I have been told by so many people today (even those in 30s or older) that talking on the phone makes them anxious. So they only text. People have a hundred friends on social media but do not have a couple of real friends they go out to have a cup of coffee with. When is the last time a friend called you (not texted or send a message on FB) just to see how you are doing? Or just pop in to visit? I think that in the past those with troubled minds were not left out in the cyberspace talking to those who feed their paranoia, they had families and friends around who could intervene in some way.


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## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

gapeach said:


> When did you become a moderator?


I stated my opinion. In my opinion your all consuming hatred of the President and everything he does is not warranted in a tragic situation such as this one.


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## Woolieface (Feb 17, 2015)

Trixie said:


> Is there a darker explanation?


Yes...


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

> I'm speaking of this country - not the rest of the world.
> 
> Also, I'm talking about the mass shootings, etc. Not the gang shootings - as senseless as they may be.
> 
> Oh, no, it can't just be *glossed over *with the idea that '*there is no increase in violence'.* Again, I'm talking about the things on the level of the reporter shooting, schools, theatres, etc.


It's not "glossing over" when violent crime rates are down, and have steadily declined since the 90's, even with the huge increase in population.

It's easy to buy into the hype that it's "more violent" now, but it's simply a misconception. It's really quite easy to find the truth

http://www.bjs.gov/index.cfm?ty=tp&tid=31



> In 2014, U.S. residents age 12 or older experienced an estimated
> 5.4 million violent victimizations and 15.3 million property
> victimizations, according to the Bureau of Justice Statistics&#8217;
> (BJS) National Crime Victimization Survey (NCVS).
> ...


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## Evons hubby (Oct 3, 2005)

I think there are several reasons. First is since I was in school our population has just about tripled from roughly a hundred million to three hundred million. When we can count on the "two percenters" as we used to call them to pretty much still be the same, that means we now have three times as many of them dispersed among the same number of cities. 

Two.... We do hear a lot more news almost instantly compared to forty years ago and the reporters are much worse than they used to be about sensationalizing the stories. 

Third.... We have drifted further down the road away from pride and self esteem, self respect, more people feeling like they are not valued.... Mostly because many of them are pretty much worthless. (Thru no fault of their own) They have never been taught to earn for themselves, not just their livings, but respect and self esteem that can only be earned by ones own effort. Those things cannot be given to someone no matter how rich their daddy is. This last probably kicks that two percent group up a couple points.... Maybe more.


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## Vahomesteaders (Jun 4, 2014)

Sadly is the antidepressants and anti physcotics that are causing much of this. It's been proven that every shooter from columbine to va tech and sandy hook were all on these meds. They are dangerous. They are synthetic chemicals that throw off the bodies hormones and can cause massive mood swings. And if they run out our emediatly stop taking them they are a ticking time bomb. It's time we address the core of people's depression and stop pumping them up on meds. Heck I got a good buddy who has lost his mind from taking chantix for 3 years. It fried him. Normal hard working man for 20 years. My best fishing budy, gone thanks to a stop smoking med. And he isn't the first. There have been tens of thousands experience the same thing on that mess.


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## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

Vahomesteaders said:


> Sadly is the antidepressants and anti physcotics that are causing much of this. It's been proven that every shooter from columbine to va tech and sandy hook were all on these meds. They are dangerous. They are synthetic chemicals that throw off the bodies hormones and can cause massive mood swings. And if they run out our emediatly stop taking them they are a ticking time bomb. It's time we address the core of people's depression and stop pumping them up on meds. Heck I got a good buddy who has lost his mind from taking chantix for 3 years. It fried him. Normal hard working man for 20 years. My best fishing budy, gone thanks to a stop smoking med. And he isn't the first. There have been tens of thousands experience the same thing on that mess.


Do you have links to your "proof"?


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## Vahomesteaders (Jun 4, 2014)

Proof of what? Google chantix dangers and antidepressants dangers. They are banned in many countries especially for anyone under 18.


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## FarmerKat (Jul 3, 2014)

I think that Bearfootfarm has a good point. I believe that is a good part of the perception that there is more of it. 

I also think that with modern technology, people today live in a separate reality and do not have real, human to human relationships on the same level prior generations used to have. I have been told by so many people today (even those in 30s or older) that talking on the phone makes them anxious. So they only text. People have a hundred friends on social media but do not have a couple of real friends they go out to have a cup of coffee with. When is the last time a friend called you (not texted or send a message on FB) just to see how you are doing? Or just pop in to visit? I think that in the past those with troubled minds were not left out in the cyberspace talking to those who feed their paranoia, they had families and friends around who could intervene in some way.


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## Vahomesteaders (Jun 4, 2014)

http://breggin.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=196


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

> Originally Posted by Vahomesteaders View Post
> Sadly is the antidepressants and anti physcotics that are causing much of this.


Do you mean they caused the nearly 75% *decrease* in violent crimes since the 90's?

*



From 1993 to 2014, the rate of violent crime 
declined from 79.8 to 20.1 per 1,000.

Click to expand...

*


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## Vahomesteaders (Jun 4, 2014)

http://www.peoplespharmacy.com/2014/09/29/stop-smoking-drug-chantix-has-hidden-dangers/


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

Vahomesteaders said:


> http://breggin.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=196


That doesn't prove any correlation to any "increase" in violence (especially since it's decreased)


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## puddlejumper007 (Jan 12, 2008)

took God out of schools, but give them back when you are sent to prison. make any sense? no


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## Vahomesteaders (Jun 4, 2014)

Bearfootfarm said:


> Do you mean they caused the nearly 75% *decrease* in violent crimes since the 90's?


Not at all. Fbi site says main reason is tougher sentencing laws and higher prison population. 1.3% of the nation's population is behind bars. They also site that the baby boney generation is aging and had less children making obviously less youth violence which was a high percentage of the 80s and 90s violence. Now here is an interesting note. While violent crime had dropped. Gun ownership has exploded! More than tripple the amount since the 90s. Seems the more guns we have the safer we are.


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## Laura Zone 5 (Jan 13, 2010)

Trixie said:


> What is causing the increase in violence. I'm speaking of the shootings, etc.
> Not the one on one - or even drug wars - but the shootings like the TV reporter, schools, etc?
> 
> Are these people just defective?
> ...


We call 'evil' mental illness?
Monsanto?
No absolutes?
Big Pharma? (allergy meds, adhd, etc)
Over use of OTC drugs? (cough meds to make babies sleep)
Lazy parenting?
No honor, integrity, or discipline?


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

Vahomesteaders said:


> Not at all. Fbi site says main reason is tougher sentencing laws and higher prison population. 1.3% of the nation's population is behind bars. They also site that the baby boney generation is aging and had less children making obviously less youth violence which was a high percentage of the 80s and 90s violence. Now here is an interesting note. While violent crime had dropped.* Gun ownership has exploded! More than tripple the amount since the 90s. Seems the more guns we have the safer we are.*


The use of antidepressants has increased too, so there should have been a huge increase in violence instead of a drop, which means the drugs aren't really making a difference


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## mreynolds (Jan 1, 2015)

I am with BFF on this one until I can see proof otherwise. 

Although, I do agree that to me it seems that almost everyone that wants a certain med seems to be able to get it. Even people that don't want a med seem to get a scrip for one when they go to a DR. And now that Drs pretty much specialize they seem to get multiple meds that are contra indicative of the other meds. 

Almost happened to my son when he was 11 yo until I told that "DR" that she could not diagnose my son in 5 minutes time with a mental illness just by asking him one question. (wife also was a psych major so I had her input too) The med she wanted to give him had so many life threatening side effects that I refused her to prescribe them to him as was my right as a parent. I took him to real Dr. and lo and behold he was just depressed because his best friend moved away and his biological father had passed away and he never grieved properly. This after 2+ months of therapy. 

But so many people go with the "trusted" advice of their Dr. I have seen many meds kill many people for no reason whatsoever except to make a buck for someone. Not a violent crime for sure but IMO a crime nonetheless.


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## Vahomesteaders (Jun 4, 2014)

Bearfootfarm said:


> The use of antidepressants has increased too, so there should have been a huge increase in violence instead of a drop, which means the drugs aren't really making a difference


Not really. There has been a huge increase of suicide. Many hurry themselves instead of others. I'm not saying they don't have their place. Taken responsibly they can have a positive affect. But the sheer fact that antidepressants is the second most prescribed drug to our youth is scary. And youth suicide is through the roof. Even in Fairfax va which is very well off families there are huge epidemics of these suicide clusters. One high-school list 8 kids in one year. Their only link? Antidepressants. It's the same all over the country.


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## gapeach (Dec 23, 2011)

Irish Pixie said:


> I stated my opinion. In my opinion your all consuming hatred of the President and everything he does is not warranted in a tragic situation such as this one.


I well know that this situation is horrible and tragic for the victims as well as all of the family,friends who were in any way connected with them. I am not in any way excusing or denying just how horrific this killing of these 2 young people was.
However, when used in context with comparison of two things, e.g., the first item dwarfs the second item, it suggests that the first item is so much bigger that the second that it makes the second look very small (like a dwarf). Dwarf is the verb that describe what the first item does to the second item.
I disagree with Obama on this. Domestically terrorism may not be killing as many Americans but globally, the victims of ISIS terrorists run in the tens of thousands. He is not just wrong, but he is also partly culpable for all those innocent lives lost especially in Libya and Syria. 
Obama started a lot of the strife in this country, ever since the Beer Summit.
In fact this started it all when he said that the Boston Cops acted stupidly.
Now you have no right at all to call me down for anything and to say 
 "have some decency". 

Considering the source, that is the funniest thing that I have heard all day!ound:


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

Vahomesteaders said:


> Not really. There has been a huge increase of suicide. Many hurry themselves instead of others. I'm not saying they don't have their place. Taken responsibly they can have a positive affect. But the sheer fact that antidepressants is the second most prescribed drug to our youth is scary. *And youth suicide is through the roof.* Even in Fairfax va which is very well off families there are huge epidemics of these suicide clusters. One high-school list 8 kids in one year. Their only link? Antidepressants. It's the same all over the country.


Again, I think you're making up these "statistics" as you go along:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suicide_in_the_United_States



> From 1999 to 2010, the suicide rate among Americans, aged - 35 to 64 increased nearly 30 percent.
> 
> *The largest increases were among men in their 50s*, a rates rising near 50 percent, or 30 per 100,000.
> 
> For women, this was for women 60 to 64, whose rates rose 60 percent, to 7.0 per 100,000.[1] In 2008, it was observed that U.S. suicide rates, particularly among middle-aged white women, had increased, although the causes were unclear.[3]


Nothing there about "youth suicide through the roof", and the US rates are lower than several other countries.


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## kasilofhome (Feb 10, 2005)

gapeach said:


> *The Latest: Obama calls TV shooting heartbreaking*
> 
> 
> MONETA, Va. (AP) â The latest on the on-air killing of two TV station employees in Virginia (all times local):
> ...



It does not fit his agenda


Mentally ill persons can and historically have caused a good share of murders and pain.
Be it a hit at Reagan, John Lennon, or ford. Pills have been used- Tylenol. Fire ...John constantio.

Focusing on the miss use of guns is avoidance of the real issue. 

It a lazy way out to "feel" like people have accomplished a solution.


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## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

gapeach said:


> I well know that this situation is horrible and tragic for the victims as well as all of the family,friends who were in any way connected with them. I am not in any way excusing or denying just how horrific this killing of these 2 young people was.
> However, when used in context with comparison of two things, e.g., the first item dwarfs the second item, it suggests that the first item is so much bigger that the second that it makes the second look very small (like a dwarf). Dwarf is the verb that describe what the first item does to the second item.
> I disagree with Obama on this. Domestically terrorism may not be killing as many Americans but globally, the victims of ISIS terrorists run in the tens of thousands. He is not just wrong, but he is also partly culpable for all those innocent lives lost especially in Libya and Syria.
> Obama started a lot of the strife in this country, ever since the Beer Summit.
> ...


You trying to justify what you did isn't helping. 

Using this tragedy to trash the President, yet again, is indecent in my opinion. It's not funny.


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## Vahomesteaders (Jun 4, 2014)

http://www.foxnews.com/health/2012/06/08/cdc-teen-suicide-attempts-on-rise/


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## Evons hubby (Oct 3, 2005)

Irish Pixie said:


> You trying to justify what you did isn't helping.
> 
> Using this tragedy to trash the President, yet again, is indecent in my opinion. It's not funny.


I tend to agre, there are oodlins of other tragedies he is guilty of causing thru his fumbling and bumbling, and deliberately, we should cut him a bit of slack once in a while.


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## gapeach (Dec 23, 2011)

Well, that is your opinion, just like a butt, everyone has one.

Frankly, your opinion means nothing to me.


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## Cornhusker (Mar 20, 2003)

Irish Pixie said:


> You trying to justify what you did isn't helping.
> 
> Using this tragedy to trash the President, yet again, is indecent in my opinion. It's not funny.


The "president" using this tragedy (again) to push his agenda is disgusting and outrageous.
He does it every time, giggling to himself while standing on the bodies, not yet cold.
The man is demented.


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## gapeach (Dec 23, 2011)

Yvonne's hubby said:


> I tend to agre, there are oodlins of other tragedies he is guilty of causing thru his fumbling and bumbling, and deliberately, we should cut him a bit of slack once in a while.


Why? Nothing here is any different.


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## Vahomesteaders (Jun 4, 2014)

I'm not making stuff up. Suicide is second leading cause of death in youth. 
http://consumer.healthday.com/menta...by-hanging-on-the-rise-across-u-s-697180.html


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## Evons hubby (Oct 3, 2005)

gapeach said:


> Why? Nothing here is any different.


I know, I was just thinking how the Romans occasionally showed a little mercy now and then. What difference would it really make to let the pres off the hook this time? We can only hang him once anyway!


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## Evons hubby (Oct 3, 2005)

Vahomesteaders said:


> I'm not making stuff up. Suicide is second leading cause of death in youth.
> http://consumer.healthday.com/menta...by-hanging-on-the-rise-across-u-s-697180.html


A lot of those "suicides" are not really intentional, but rather trying to cop a buzz gone awry.


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## watcher (Sep 4, 2006)

Trixie said:


> What is causing the increase in violence. I'm speaking of the shootings, etc.
> Not the one on one - or even drug wars - but the shootings like the TV reporter, schools, etc?
> 
> Are these people just defective?
> ...


My views in no particular order, your mileage may vary.

There are more crazies out there. Its dang hard to get a crazy locked up and its harder to keep him locked up when you do. There was a case years ago of a guy who pushed someone in front of a train. He was found to be 'crazy' so they locked him up, gave him some meds, was found to be sane while medicated and was released. Once released he stopped taking his meds and used a brick to smash in the head of a woman. Again he was found to be crazy, given meds, found to be sane while on meds and released. While free he stopped taking his meds and beat a man to death. I think after his third murder they FINALLY were able to keep him locked up.

In today's society there is no belief that life is valuable. After all if you can kill a child because it would interfere with your life why can't you kill your neighbor when he plays his music too loud?

There are vast segments of society who are and have been told over and over and over that the reason they are not one of the elite is because "the man" is keeping them down and if it wasn't for "the man" stealing from them they'd have all the good stuff in life. And because of this they are entitled to whatever they want. Since they think they are entitled to it they see no reason not to just take it. Plus it breeds a lot of anger and angry people do stupid things. 

People are not held responsible for their actions. If you fail a test its not your fault (even though you either slept through or skipped most of your classes and didn't study a bit) it must be the school's fault. Or maybe its how the test is set up. If you can't get a job making $50K it isn't your fault because your major degree is in the paving techniques of the Roman empire, its the evil 1% who just want to keep all the money. You aren't locked up because you raped, robbed and beat a 60 y.o. grandmother the death its because of your skin color or economic status or. . .

Then there's the break down of the family. Most criminals are male and almost all violent criminals are male. While this has always been true the fact that a large percentage of the criminal males today do/did not have a stable family and/or no responsible male adult in their lives. Like it or not mothers and fathers fulfill different roles in children's lives. You can see this when a boy trips and gets a minor wound. A mother will sooth and make the boy feel better physically and emotionally. A father will make the boy realize that in life some things hurt and you just have to deal with it. You can also see the differences in how mothers and fathers play with their children. Fathers are much more likely to stimulate them physically; tossing them, chasing them, wrestling etc. Whereas mothers end to stimulate them mentally; coloring with them, teaching them songs, doing puzzles, etc. And much like if you only eat one type of food you don't grow up physically healthy if you only get one kind of stimulation you don't grow up mentally healthy.


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## Trixie (Aug 25, 2006)

Thanks, everyone, for responding - 

I don't want to confuse my use of violence with the kind of 'regular' (for want of a better word) crime. I'm not even talking about serial killers. That's maybe for another thread. 

Again, I'm mostly talking about the school shootings, etc. Now I do remember a few of those over the years - the Texas tower shooting comes to mind. But even those who believe we have less violence will have to admit in the last few years, we've had such horrific mega killings and it isn't business as usual.


I would just like to know why these are happening. 

As for violent crimes, not of the kind I mentioned, I'd still have to question the statistics. I do remember when Pres. Clinton was in office, a big deal was made of the decrease in crime - and then some enterprising people found out police departments were being pressured to not report as many crimes.

It is nothing new for politicians, the news media, and those with an agenda to use tragedies for their own end. I remember quite some years back when people were saying they 'were dancing on the graves' of the victims.
They all do it.

This is different and unusual - and I think it behooves this country to try to find the answer.

If the mind altering drugs are playing a part - and from reports, at least some of them were on drugs, maybe we should rethink how those are prescribed. It could be giving these out to people who are not capable of taking them correctly or even taking them, is very dangerous. Maybe we should look a little farther into these tragedies than just the method used to carry out the killings.


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## Woolieface (Feb 17, 2015)

Trixie said:


> It is nothing new for politicians, the news media, and those with an agenda to use tragedies for their own end.


Note that they tend to all come at such convenient timing for such a use.


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## Old Vet (Oct 15, 2006)

No Jobs!!! If you have a job you don't have time to stew in your own mess. I grew up on a mental farm where every had a job.The worse thing for a patent is to be to that thy were going back to the hospital and have no job. When you are out of work you stew until you find another job. If you are mental case you may become a dangerous person. Even those that have anger problems can become a dangerous person by letting you anger take over when you are out of work.


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## kasilofhome (Feb 10, 2005)

Rudy in New York seemed to have taken a divided city. (Al Sharpton..clear throat)thru rudys leadership and boots on the ground he did get results.

I am no more giving up hope than willing to restrict guns.


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## Trixie (Aug 25, 2006)

watcher said:


> My views in no particular order, your mileage may vary.
> 
> There are more crazies out there. Its dang hard to get a crazy locked up and its harder to keep him locked up when you do. There was a case years ago of a guy who pushed someone in front of a train. He was found to be 'crazy' so they locked him up, gave him some meds, was found to be sane while medicated and was released. Once released he stopped taking his meds and used a brick to smash in the head of a woman. Again he was found to be crazy, given meds, found to be sane while on meds and released. While free he stopped taking his meds and beat a man to death. I think after his third murder they FINALLY were able to keep him locked up.
> 
> ...


Wow!!

You and I are almost in total agreement.

Again, for another thread, we could discuss the one percenters and their minions in Washington and it's effect on us.


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## Trixie (Aug 25, 2006)

Woolieface said:


> Note that they tend to all come at such convenient timing for such a use.


Perhaps.


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## Evons hubby (Oct 3, 2005)

watcher said:


> My views in no particular order, your mileage may vary.
> 
> There are more crazies out there. Its dang hard to get a crazy locked up and its harder to keep him locked up when you do. There was a case years ago of a guy who pushed someone in front of a train. He was found to be 'crazy' so they locked him up, gave him some meds, was found to be sane while medicated and was released. Once released he stopped taking his meds and used a brick to smash in the head of a woman. Again he was found to be crazy, given meds, found to be sane while on meds and released. While free he stopped taking his meds and beat a man to death. I think after his third murder they FINALLY were able to keep him locked up.
> 
> ...


theres a whole lot more people than most realize that are more than willing to trade the life of a child for their own convenience. The interesting part is they will deny it quite vehemently when it's pointed out to them.


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## Laura Zone 5 (Jan 13, 2010)

watcher said:


> My views in no particular order, your mileage may vary.
> 
> There are more crazies out there. Its dang hard to get a crazy locked up and its harder to keep him locked up when you do. There was a case years ago of a guy who pushed someone in front of a train. He was found to be 'crazy' so they locked him up, gave him some meds, was found to be sane while medicated and was released. Once released he stopped taking his meds and used a brick to smash in the head of a woman. Again he was found to be crazy, given meds, found to be sane while on meds and released. While free he stopped taking his meds and beat a man to death. I think after his third murder they FINALLY were able to keep him locked up.


I agree. We need to (A) Expose the TRUTH of why we have SO many w/ mental illness, then we as a society, need to deal with mental illness.



> In today's society there is no belief that life is valuable. After all if you can kill a child because it would interfere with your life why can't you kill your neighbor when he plays his music too loud?


A raging river is not created in a day.
It's done, one drip at a time. 
Drip after drip, cuts a path for a trickle, cuts a path for a flow, which cuts a path for a torrent. 
We will pull a baby half way out a mother and kill it and call it choice.
We stuff mom and dad / gramps and granny in run down nursing homes and forget they exist.
We are constantly bombarded w/ media that devalues life.......like you can take one and it's no big deal.

We are reaping, what we have sown.



> There are vast segments of society who are and have been told over and over and over that the reason they are not one of the elite is because "the man" is keeping them down and if it wasn't for "the man" stealing from them they'd have all the good stuff in life. And because of this they are entitled to whatever they want. Since they think they are entitled to it they see no reason not to just take it. Plus it breeds a lot of anger and angry people do stupid things.


Yep.
No consequences for poor choices.
No work ethic, no drive no desire, no honesty, no integrity, no honor.
It's the "ME" mentality. 
It's the "I deserve this" attitude.
It's the "you MUST share" attitude.
It's generations of people doing nothing and getting something.......



> People are not held responsible for their actions. If you fail a test its not your fault (even though you either slept through or skipped most of your classes and didn't study a bit) it must be the school's fault. Or maybe its how the test is set up. If you can't get a job making $50K it isn't your fault because your major degree is in the paving techniques of the Roman empire, its the evil 1% who just want to keep all the money. You aren't locked up because you raped, robbed and beat a 60 y.o. grandmother the death its because of your skin color or economic status or. . .


Mediocrity is preached, taught, and celebrated in schools.....
You can disrespect your mom and dad at home, and not face consequences. Then you can go to school, and be a holy terror; again, no consequences. So you spend 18 years w NO consequences; ADD TO THAT the adults make excuses for you "oh sally had ________ or johnny went thru ________." Stop it. Just stop it.



> Then there's the break down of the family. Most criminals are male and almost all violent criminals are male. While this has always been true the fact that a large percentage of the criminal males today do/did not have a stable family and/or no responsible male adult in their lives. Like it or not mothers and fathers fulfill different roles in children's lives. You can see this when a boy trips and gets a minor wound. A mother will sooth and make the boy feel better physically and emotionally. A father will make the boy realize that in life some things hurt and you just have to deal with it. You can also see the differences in how mothers and fathers play with their children. Fathers are much more likely to stimulate them physically; tossing them, chasing them, wrestling etc. Whereas mothers end to stimulate them mentally; coloring with them, teaching them songs, doing puzzles, etc. And much like if you only eat one type of food you don't grow up physically healthy if you only get one kind of stimulation you don't grow up mentally healthy.


Yep. Spot on.


----------



## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

Cornhusker said:


> The "president" using this tragedy (again) to push his agenda is disgusting and outrageous.
> He does it every time, giggling to himself while standing on the bodies, not yet cold.
> The man is demented.


There's a bunch of dementia when it comes to the President and Democrats in general. I'm not a fan but I don't think he's the anti christ either.

This was not a political thread until one poster (that has brought hatred of the President to an obsession) dragged it in yet again.


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## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

Vahomesteaders said:


> Sadly is the antidepressants and anti physcotics that are causing much of this. It's been proven that every shooter from columbine to va tech and sandy hook were all on these meds. They are dangerous. They are synthetic chemicals that throw off the bodies hormones and can cause massive mood swings. And if they run out our emediatly stop taking them they are a ticking time bomb. It's time we address the core of people's depression and stop pumping them up on meds. Heck I got a good buddy who has lost his mind from taking chantix for 3 years. It fried him. Normal hard working man for 20 years. My best fishing budy, gone thanks to a stop smoking med. And he isn't the first. There have been tens of thousands experience the same thing on that mess.





Vahomesteaders said:


> Proof of what? Google chantix dangers and antidepressants dangers. They are banned in many countries especially for anyone under 18.


There could be a link between anti depressants, specifically serotonin reuptake inhibitors, and violence. There is no link between anti psychotics drugs and violence. 

A link to a paper done on FDA data:

https://www.psychologytoday.com/blo...drugs-and-violence-review-fda-data-finds-link

Further, the research never indicated if the patients had a history of being violent prior to antidepressant use or if they were taking any other type of medication. This article is 5 years old, if you have anything current I'd be interested in reading it.


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## Laura Zone 5 (Jan 13, 2010)

Something we should look at is what did the pregnant mother put into her body from conception to delivery AND is that where all this starts?


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

Trixie said:


> What is causing the increase in violence. I'm speaking of the shootings, etc.
> Not the one on one - or even drug wars - but the shootings like the TV reporter, schools, etc?
> 
> Are these people just defective? *Yes*
> ...


More people, more violence. Closer proximity, more violence.

News travels around the world in the blink of an internat. Too much news for our little brain to process.


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

Trixie said:


> Thanks, everyone, for responding -
> 
> I don't want to confuse my use of violence with the kind of 'regular' (for want of a better word) crime. I'm not even talking about serial killers. That's maybe for another thread.
> 
> ...


Schools are too big. They breed cliques and outcasts. Misfits lash out.


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## Cornhusker (Mar 20, 2003)

Irish Pixie said:


> There's a bunch of dementia when it comes to the President and Democrats in general. I'm not a fan but I don't think he's the anti christ either.
> 
> This was not a political thread until one poster (that has brought hatred of the President to an obsession) dragged it in yet again.


In my opinion, bringing the president into this is relevant since this race garbage falls at his feet.


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## Laura Zone 5 (Jan 13, 2010)

Cornhusker said:


> In my opinion, bringing the president into this is relevant since this race garbage falls at his feet.


That's a topic for politics.

I am NO obama fan, not one bit......but he is a human being, and can only do so much. Just like Bush, Clinton, Reagan, Nixion, JFK.......

Can we just discuss the condition of 'murder' so many have in their hearts, and why?


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## Cornhusker (Mar 20, 2003)

Laura Zone 10 said:


> That's a topic for politics.
> 
> I am NO obama fan, not one bit......but he is a human being, and can only do so much. Just like Bush, Clinton, Reagan, Nixion, JFK.......
> 
> Can we just discuss the condition of 'murder' so many have in their hearts, and why?


Some people are taught it's ok to hate certain others.
That's just a fact of a divided country, and sorry for bringing politics into it, but politics is the reason racism hasn't died under the weight of it's own ugliness.
This murder was committed by a gay black man who has been inundated with "people hate you because you are black, people hate you because you are gay" his whole life.
He's been conditioned to think he is being treated as a second class citizen, even though he was obviously educated, and had good jobs.
He was fired for his own mistakes, but he was conditioned to blame others which he nurtured until he convinced himself murdering innocents was the thing to do.
He obviously had a screw loose, but the question is, did our government created racism loosen that screw or was it something else?


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

Cornhusker said:


> Some people are taught it's ok to hate certain others.
> That's just a fact of a divided country, and sorry for bringing politics into it, but politics is the reason racism hasn't died under the weight of it's own ugliness.
> This murder was committed by a gay black man who has been inundated with "people hate you because you are black, people hate you because you are gay" his whole life.
> He's been conditioned to think he is being treated as a second class citizen, even though he was obviously educated, and had good jobs.
> ...


Yep...


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## gapeach (Dec 23, 2011)

I don't really need to apologize to anyone on here for bringing up Obama's statement that he made yesterday afternoon. I did not criticize him. I only disagreed with his words.
*"What we know is that the number of people who die from gun-related incidents around this country dwarfs any deaths that happen through terrorism," he said.
*
I did not make Trixie's OP any different and I think that one person has tried to make this into an attack on me.


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

gapeach said:


> I don't really need to apologize to anyone on here for bringing up Obama's statement that he made yesterday afternoon. I did not criticize him. I only disagreed with his words.
> *"What we know is that the number of people who die from gun-related incidents around this country dwarfs any deaths that happen through terrorism," he said.
> *
> I did not make Trixie's OP any different and I think that one person has tried to make this into an attack on me.


Has it become impolitic to criticize 0bama here?


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## Laura Zone 5 (Jan 13, 2010)

Cornhusker said:


> Some people are taught it's ok to hate certain others.


*&#8220;Fear is the path to the dark side. Fear leads to anger. Anger leads to hate. Hate leads to suffering.&#8221; Yoda.
*




> That's just a fact of a divided country, and sorry for bringing politics into it, but politics is the reason racism hasn't died under the weight of it's own ugliness.


The media is the single largest perpetuation of division. 
Period.



> This murder was committed by a gay black man who has been inundated with "people hate you because you are black, people hate you because you are gay" his whole life.


And here is the problem: Labels.
"gay" and "black".

No he is a human man, who CHOSE to murder.
Period. Period. Period.

If the news reported "today, a man viciously murdered another man and woman, shooting and injuring another, and then killing himself."
Back to you Bob.......



> He's been conditioned to think he is being treated as a second class citizen, even though he was obviously educated, and had good jobs.
> He was fired for his own mistakes, but he was conditioned to blame others which he nurtured until he convinced himself murdering innocents was the thing to do.
> He obviously had a screw loose, but the question is, did our government created racism loosen that screw or was it something else?


Who is conditioning him?
Did they single him out and condition him only?
Or is this a blanket statement that ALL gay black men have been conditioned?
IF that is the case why did ONLY THIS gay black man CHOOSE murder?
Because HE chose it. Period.

Maybe he DIDN'T have a screw loose.
Maybe he's so consumed with hate, vengence, impurity, debauchery, discord, jealousy, rage, envy, and the like?
Maybe those poisonous emotions finally brought him so low, that the CHOICE of murder sounded good??
He put it on social media for crying out loud.
HE WANTS ATTENTION?? So do we now blame mommy? Daddy? Grammy? Poor whats-his-face didn't get enough attention, and that's why he did it...wa wa wa.
NO.
HE CHOSE.
The end. He chose.

There are too many gay black men that function JUST FINE under the exact same circumstances, challenges, conditioning as this MURDERER and they not only do fine, but they do NOT choose murder.





gapeach said:


> I don't really need to apologize to anyone on here for bringing up Obama's statement that he made yesterday afternoon. I did not criticize him. I only disagreed with his words.
> *"What we know is that the number of people who die from gun-related incidents around this country dwarfs any deaths that happen through terrorism," he said.
> *
> I did not make Trixie's OP any different and I think that one person has tried to make this into an attack on me.


What he said was ignorant and out of place. He should not 'politic' when something like this happens.
A simply "our thoughts are with the families" is enough.

I am curious as to why people think stories like this are 'on the rise'......

(and I do not belong to the political board, and if this gets moved, like another thread, because it's too political, I won't be able to see it!!)


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## gapeach (Dec 23, 2011)

Apparently. I have never said that I hate Barack Obama, never.... Since this was his statement on the shooting of the two people in Roanoke, I disagreed with it and I don't think that was to be without decency.
I made the statement that Obama has brought a lot of strife in this country by some of his actions, the first one getting involved an incident with Professor Gates and the Boston Police. I have said that I despise some of his policies. 
Now if that is breaking any rules, I don't know what they are.


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## Tricky Grama (Oct 7, 2006)

watcher said:


> My views in no particular order, your mileage may vary.
> 
> There are more crazies out there. Its dang hard to get a crazy locked up and its harder to keep him locked up when you do. There was a case years ago of a guy who pushed someone in front of a train. He was found to be 'crazy' so they locked him up, gave him some meds, was found to be sane while medicated and was released. Once released he stopped taking his meds and used a brick to smash in the head of a woman. Again he was found to be crazy, given meds, found to be sane while on meds and released. While free he stopped taking his meds and beat a man to death. I think after his third murder they FINALLY were able to keep him locked up.
> 
> ...


Wow, Post of the century award.


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## Tricky Grama (Oct 7, 2006)

Cornhusker said:


> Some people are taught it's ok to hate certain others.
> That's just a fact of a divided country, and sorry for bringing politics into it, but politics is the reason racism hasn't died under the weight of it's own ugliness.
> This murder was committed by a gay black man who has been inundated with "people hate you because you are black, people hate you because you are gay" his whole life.
> He's been conditioned to think he is being treated as a second class citizen, even though he was obviously educated, and had good jobs.
> ...


Post of the week award.


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## thestartupman (Jul 25, 2010)

Trixie said:


> What is causing the increase in violence. I'm speaking of the shootings, etc.
> Not the one on one - or even drug wars - but the shootings like the TV reporter, schools, etc?
> 
> Are these people just defective?
> ...


The reason for all this death and killings is very simple. God created man, and man rejected God. This started everything off long ago. Our nation and its laws where based of Biblical principals. Yes, there was crime even from the begining of this nation, but there was much less of it, because biblical principals were taught in our schools, and it was the guiding principals that this nation was led by. As more and more people reject God, and God was taken out of the schools there have been generations now of kids that have no morale compass. They never here about God, they are not taught that there is truly a right and wrong. Many of these kids are now adults commiting these crimes, and raising more children with out any Godly guidance in there lives. Now let me ask you this, where do you think this nation will be once these kids have grown and are raising there own kids? Do you think the respect of live will get better? Its only gotten worse so far!


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## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

thestartupman said:


> The reason for all this death and killings is very simple. God created man, and man rejected God. This started everything off long ago. Our nation and its laws where based of Biblical principals. Yes, there was crime even from the begining of this nation, but there was much less of it, because biblical principals were taught in our schools, and it was the guiding principals that this nation was led by. As more and more people reject God, and God was taken out of the schools there have been generations now of kids that have no morale compass. They never here about God, they are not taught that there is truly a right and wrong. Many of these kids are now adults commiting these crimes, and raising more children with out any Godly guidance in there lives. Now let me ask you this, where do you think this nation will be once these kids have grown and are raising there own kids? Do you think the respect of live will get better? Its only gotten worse so far!


Gah. :facepalm:


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## Farmerga (May 6, 2010)

IMO, the major change is that, instead of spanking kids butts, we drug them to get them to sit down and learn. We also instill in them the idea that they are just the most wonderful, bestust kid ever and their poo doesn't stink. They deserve to be handed everything for just being them. Then, in their early to mid 20's reality hits them in the face, they can't handle it and snap.


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## Fishindude (May 19, 2015)

I'm kind of like Bearfootfarm. Don't really think there is more violence now, it just hits the media immediate and we now all hear about it. In general I think the world and people are now more tolerant and peaceful than ever.

Look back at history if you want to see some serious violence.

I do think the breakdown of the basic family structure is a big part of this current rash of nut cases. Too many kids growing up without parents and without supervision of any type.


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## Cornhusker (Mar 20, 2003)

Laura Zone 10 said:


> *âFear is the path to the dark side. Fear leads to anger. Anger leads to hate. Hate leads to suffering.â Yoda.
> *
> 
> 
> ...


I get what you are saying about the media, and i agree.


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## gapeach (Dec 23, 2011)

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...ted-cousin-says-praying-victims-families.html

This is a good article about Vester Flanagan, his family and his life.

He sure looked a lot like his father who was a Green Bay Packer's football player.


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## AmericanStand (Jul 29, 2014)

Things are much safer it's just the perception that's changed.


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## wr (Aug 10, 2003)

thestartupman said:


> The reason for all this death and killings is very simple. God created man, and man rejected God. This started everything off long ago. Our nation and its laws where based of Biblical principals. Yes, there was crime even from the begining of this nation, but there was much less of it, because biblical principals were taught in our schools, and it was the guiding principals that this nation was led by. As more and more people reject God, and God was taken out of the schools there have been generations now of kids that have no morale compass. They never here about God, they are not taught that there is truly a right and wrong. Many of these kids are now adults commiting these crimes, and raising more children with out any Godly guidance in there lives. Now let me ask you this, where do you think this nation will be once these kids have grown and are raising there own kids? Do you think the respect of live will get better? Its only gotten worse so far!


I respectfully disagree. My heathen offspring have never shown any violent tendencies and have actually worked hard to help people within their communities that have suffered great tragedy. 

There was $20,000.00 for funerals of a young person who died tragically in a house fire. 

Just over $60,000.00 for a widow who's husband was killed in an trucking accident.

Last weekend, I had the pleasure of delivering $18,000.00 intended to help maintain the family farm while a dear friend of mine remains in hospital waiting for a lung transplant. 

None embrace your god but they seem to be decent people.


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## kasilofhome (Feb 10, 2005)

http://www.theblaze.com/stories/201...ently-made-her-a-target-for-on-air-execution/


This support just what watcher wrote he had been conditioned into seeking a victim card to avoid looking at himself. Spending so much focus on to find how racism was the problem he never thought to find the real issue. Low personal self esteem where he replied on validation from others.. seems he really needed a spotlight on him which could be why he filmed and aired the shooting... his need to feel important.



Those words are] just common, everyday talk. [But] that was his MO &#8212; to start s**t,&#8221; Fuqua added. &#8220;He was unstable. One time, after one of our live shots failed, he threw all his stuff down and ran into the woods for like 20 minutes.&#8221;

WDBJ cameraman Trevor Fair recalled others using the term &#8220;field&#8221; around Flanagan: &#8220;We would say stuff like, &#8216;The reporter&#8217;s out in the field.&#8217; And he would look at us and say, &#8216;What are you saying, &#8216;cotton fields&#8217;? That&#8217;s racist,&#8217;&#8221; he told the Post.


&#8220;We&#8217;d be like, &#8216;What?&#8217;&#8221; he added. &#8220;We all know what that means, but he took it as cotton fields, and therefore we&#8217;re all racists.&#8221;

&#8220;This guy was a nightmare,&#8221; Fair told the Post. &#8220;Management&#8217;s worst nightmare.&#8221;

Then there was the time a station manager brought in watermelon for all employees. &#8220;Of course, he thought that was racist. He was like, &#8216;You&#8217;re doing that because of me.&#8217; No, the general manager brought in watermelon for the entire news team. He&#8217;s like, &#8216;Nope, this is out for me. You guys are calling me out because I&#8217;m black.&#8217;&#8221;

7-Eleven&#8217;s sale of watermelon-flavored Slurpees didn&#8217;t escape Flanagan&#8217;s observations, either.

&#8220;It&#8217;s not a coincidence, they&#8217;re racist,&#8221; Fair recalled Flanagan saying.


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## Trixie (Aug 25, 2006)

If things like this had been happening so frequently 30 years ago, we would certainly have been hearing about it. Due to our mindset years ago, it would have had an even greater impact on us. Now, we are almost expecting them.

I do agree our media, our schools, our government have been promoting victimology for a long time and it has taken root. It's true, you start with a drip and end up with a flood. 

Words like 'hate' and 'racist' are attached to everything these days. I think it is destructive to overuse those words. These things do exist - but truly are not as prevalent and some would promote. Those are words that are applied to many things to make people shut up. 

It was used really effectively in the illegal immigration situation and kept people from speaking out for 30 years. It is still being thrown around, when we can plainly see it has no bearing on the subject.

But the danger of it's overuse is there are people who are, shall we say, 'fragile' and they begin to take it to heart, and feel they have a right to react as they see fit - be it mass murders or just beating up someone.

I remember saying, years ago, the housing boom was built on hot air and would have to collapse, and being told I just hated Pres. Bush and couldn't stand the fact that it was a good thing people were getting homes.

It is your right and your duty to speak out against a politician you believe is behaving badly or doing wrong. To call it hate in an attempt to minimize or obscure the truth is not a good thing - or to try to deny someone's constitutionally given right and duty to do so.

To suggest one is a racist if they see and live with the destructive things brought about by illegal immigration, I don't get that. It is also an insult to those who have actually endured racism.

And I'm off topic - kinda.


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## gibbsgirl (May 1, 2013)

Fishindude said:


> I'm kind of like Bearfootfarm. Don't really think there is more violence now, it just hits the media immediate and we now all hear about it. In general I think the world and people are now more tolerant and peaceful than ever.
> 
> Look back at history if you want to see some serious violence.
> 
> I do think the breakdown of the basic family structure is a big part of this current rash of nut cases. Too many kids growing up without parents and without supervision of any type.


I agreed that actual physical acts may be no more than han in the past. However, I think far more people are affected secondarily now. Real violent acts are seen and resort d on a much larger scale online now. TV, movies, books, magazines, vuedo games are also sonething I would consider to be heavily intrusive in people's lives. And, even though exposure to those things is not experienced firsthand, I believe old and young are all experiences effects of exposure to them.

The level of sex, violence, etc that us considered mainstream vs graphic is IMO stunning in comparison to what many other past societies general population experienced in their everyday lives. It's nearly unavoidable. Frustrates the heck our of me on a regular basis.


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## poppy (Feb 21, 2008)

While the odds of being murdered have decreased, I would argue these violent multiple murder attacks did not happen to this degree in the past. Yea, you could get shot in a bar fight or neighborhood brawl, but schools, theaters, and shopping centers used to be very safe areas. Not long ago a postal worker would occasionally go "postal" and kill some co workers but, there again, it was due to arguments or something among coworkers. These random attacks on schools, theaters, and such where someone just goes in out of the blue and kills people, often kids, he doesn't have any connection to is relatively new. We've always had serial killers who stalked and killed particular types of victims but not random mass killings.


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## Trixie (Aug 25, 2006)

poppy said:


> While the odds of being murdered have decreased, I would argue these violent multiple murder attacks did not happen to this degree in the past. Yea, you could get shot in a bar fight or neighborhood brawl, but schools, theaters, and shopping centers used to be very safe areas. Not long ago a postal worker would occasionally go "postal" and kill some co workers but, there again, it was due to arguments or something among coworkers. These random attacks on schools, theaters, and such where someone just goes in out of the blue and kills people, often kids, he doesn't have any connection to is relatively new. We've always had serial killers who stalked and killed particular types of victims but not random mass killings.


Thank you - you made plain what I have been trying to say and evidently couldn't get across.

I just wanted to see what others thought was the reason and got some very good thoughts on the subject.


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## gapeach (Dec 23, 2011)

*GBI investigates fatal shooting of student on SSU campus*

_Updated: Aug 28, 2015 12:49 PM EST _ By Pria Abraham
By Jennifer Lifsey
SAVANNAH, GA (WTOC) - The shooting that put the Savannah State University campus on lockdown Thursday night has now turned fatal.
Officials say 22-year-old Christopher Starks was shot at the Student Union shortly before 10 p.m. He was taken to Memorial University Medical Center where he was pronounced dead. 
Starks was a junior at SSU from the metro Atlanta area. Atlanta media sources say Starks was a standout athlete from Miller Grove High School in Lithonia.
The GBI says preliminary information indicates Starks was reportedly involved in an altercation inside the Student Union where he was shot. They say the shooting appears to be an isolated incident.
The campus was put on lockdown for several hours as police investigated the shooting. The lockdown has since been lifted at the school.
Savannah State University released the following statement regarding the incident:
http://www.nbc12.com/story/29899766/ssu-student-dies-after-shooting-at-student-union


This happened last night where my twin grandsons are seniors. Both were there last night at a night class, riding together and had just left the parking lot when this shooting happened. WTOC reporting this shooting is the TV station where Vester Flanagan worked for 2 years.


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

Irish Pixie said:


> Gah. :facepalm:


Gah. :facepalm: Yourself


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## Harry Chickpea (Dec 19, 2008)

It ain't new. An ebook I'm reading on the goings on in London over 100 years ago: 

http://www.gutenberg.org/files/49701/49701-h/49701-h.htm


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## Shine (Feb 19, 2011)

Irish Pixie said:


> Gah. :facepalm:


Thank you for your respect.


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## Trixie (Aug 25, 2006)

Harry Chickpea said:


> It ain't new. An ebook I'm reading on the goings on in London over 100 years ago:
> 
> http://www.gutenberg.org/files/49701/49701-h/49701-h.htm


Yes, I get that. 

Yes, people have been slaughtering each other since time began - but we can't pretend this is no different - because it is.

Again, in regards to what is happening in this country, right now as to mass murders, or seemingly senseless murders.


It is something we need to try to figure out and we can't just gloss over it by saying - 'we don't have any more violence than before' or 'we've had violence since time began'.

Of course, it does bring to mind the movie in which Jack the Ripper stole H. G. wells time machine and came to the 1970's.
H. G. Wells pursued him and told him, "You don't belong here."

Jack the Ripper flicked through the news channels on TV and said, "On the contrary, this is exactly where I belong."


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## gapeach (Dec 23, 2011)

This is something I have a problem with about the media.

*GBI investigates fatal shooting of student on SSU campus
*
I posted this several hrs ago. This did not make national news. SSU is a historically black university but now has many white students because it is the only business school in coastal Georgia as part of the University of Ga system. If it were Ga. Tech or UGA, it would be national news.*
*


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## Ozarks Tom (May 27, 2011)

It appears to me it takes a "perfect storm" of things coming together to end in these senseless acts.

First or course, mental instability. Surely his family or someone knew of his mental condition, but these days having several screws loose only gets you observation and a prescription.

Second, society's conditioning towards violence by video games, TV, movies, etc. where killing someone either gets you points or makes you look like a hero.

And finally, the victim card. This guy drew two jokers from the deck, black and gay. He got a double helping of victimhood, reinforcing his paranoia.

Throw in the fact he wanted to be on TV and the storm has come together.


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## gapeach (Dec 23, 2011)

Ozarks Tom said:


> It appears to me it takes a "perfect storm" of things coming together to end in these senseless acts.
> 
> First or course, mental instability. Surely his family or someone knew of his mental condition, but these days having several screws loose only gets you observation and a prescription.
> 
> ...


I agree with you 100% except for the family. He was 43 and they suspected or "knew" he was gay, at least part of the family did. Sometimes the parents are the last to realize or accept that their child is gay and especially if he never shared that with them.

Once the son leaves the house and moves states away and only comes home sometimes, the parents are really the last to really know about his gayness. My heart goes out to them.


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## gibbsgirl (May 1, 2013)

Ozarks Tom,

In the same vein as a perfect storm thought, I will say....

I think historically you can find many persons who seemed fanatically fixated on securing and/or tracking their own infamy for some rather heinous acts.

I think the temptation can be taken to a fever pitch in this era. Crazy, evil, fill in the blank persons now have the ability to have their terrible actions not only nearly instant ly known, but known on a scale that simply was not available in times past.


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## Trixie (Aug 25, 2006)

Ozarks Tom said:


> It appears to me it takes a "perfect storm" of things coming together to end in these senseless acts.
> 
> First or course, mental instability. Surely his family or someone knew of his mental condition, but these days having several screws loose only gets you observation and a prescription.
> 
> ...


I think you are probably right.

Mix in some meds - or a lot of meds - taken or not - 

Have you ever thought about the fact we, this country or the ones doing the perception management can spend so much time on trying to convey the idea that being gay, a minority, etc., is just fine. Rather than convincing those people they are equal, OK, etc., they have been convinced they are somehow less. 

Intended or unintended consequences???


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## gapeach (Dec 23, 2011)

This man, Vester Flanagan, seems to me , that he had every opportunity to be a successful man. He had a very good education and many opportunities, good jobs, good family. 

Whatever demons possessed him probably were not caused by his family, his jobs or even the people who worked with him. It must have been from his inner self.


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## mreynolds (Jan 1, 2015)

wr said:


> I respectfully disagree. My heathen offspring have never shown any violent tendencies and have actually worked hard to help people within their communities that have suffered great tragedy.
> 
> There was $20,000.00 for funerals of a young person who died tragically in a house fire.
> 
> ...


Yes, you pretty much hit it on the head. Its not just Christians that have a monopoly on values. I am a Christian myself but I have seen a decline in family values across the board. There is where a lot of the problems lie. Too often it is easy to do something for the ease of the "parents". Like cough syrup at bedtime or video game babysitters or "give them something so they will just shut up!" etc. More kids are being raised by grandparents than ever before I believe but often at a point in the kids life that a lot of the damage has been done. 

I have seen multiple arguments on here between believers and non believers that I don't chime in mostly. What I will say is that if we focus on what we have in common instead of what separates us then we would do some good maybe. Then maybe it would spread and then we (collective we) would try to do the same and make bigotry, racism extinct.


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## RichNC (Aug 22, 2014)

Farmerga said:


> IMO, the major change is that, instead of spanking kids butts, we drug them to get them to sit down and learn.


Were you every beaten by you 1'st grade teacher, who was later fired...and if you were was it with a paddle, and did you have welts and major bruises??


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## Cornhusker (Mar 20, 2003)

mreynolds said:


> Then maybe it would spread and then we (collective we) would try to do the same and make bigotry, racism extinct.


Racism and bigotry will never die as long as we (collective we) continue to pretend it's a one way street.


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## kasilofhome (Feb 10, 2005)

RichNC said:


> Were you every beaten by you 1'st grade teacher, who was later fired...and if you were was it with a paddle, and did you have welts and major bruises??


If it happened to you .....why?

Only kids who would not behave ever got a swat at school.... I deserved mine.


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## mreynolds (Jan 1, 2015)

Cornhusker said:


> Racism and bigotry will never die as long as we (collective we) continue to pretend it's a one way street.


You are so right there CH. But Confucius say "the longest journey begins with that first step."


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## mreynolds (Jan 1, 2015)

kasilofhome said:


> If it happened to you .....why?
> 
> Only kids who would not behave every get a seat at school.... I deserved mine.


I got two in less than thirty minutes once. In first grade or second IIRC. Not bitter about it and no one got fired. It didn't happen again I can tell you that. Next time I got popped was in 9th grade. It was the last time too.


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## Old Vet (Oct 15, 2006)

gapeach said:


> This is something I have a problem with about the media.
> 
> *GBI investigates fatal shooting of student on SSU campus
> *
> ...


The media expects black kids to kill another black.


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## Evons hubby (Oct 3, 2005)

RichNC said:


> Were you every beaten by you 1'st grade teacher, who was later fired...and if you were was it with a paddle, and did you have welts and major bruises??


Nope, never got spanked by a teacher. Wish they had instead of telling my dad! Plenty of welts and purple belt marks when I got home.


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## Tricky Grama (Oct 7, 2006)

mreynolds said:


> I got two in less than thirty minutes once. In first grade or second IIRC. Not bitter about it and no one got fired. It didn't happen again I can tell you that. Next time I got popped was in 9th grade. It was the last time too.


And can I assume you went on to murder folks on live TV?
As well as you, RichNC?


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## AmericanStand (Jul 29, 2014)

Trixie said:


> If things like this had been happening so frequently 30 years ago, we would certainly have been hearing about it. Due to our mindset years ago, it would have had an even greater impact on us. Now, we are almost expecting them.
> .



HOW would we have heard ?

In 1986 I was in a small town in Wyoming during a school hostage situation 75 kids were injured by a bomb a week later in Illinois no one had heard of it. Now it would still be on the 24 hour news coverage.


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

gapeach said:


> This is something I have a problem with about the media.
> 
> *GBI investigates fatal shooting of student on SSU campus
> *
> ...


It's all over the news
http://www.bing.com/search?q=fatal+...=-1&sk=&cvid=828f01b7b1d94ffd9ecb0dcb6cf03f28



> GBI investigates fatal shooting of student on SSU campus â¦
> www.cleveland19.com/story/29899766/ssu-student-dies-after-shooting...
> GBI investigates fatal shooting of student on SSU campus - Cleveland 19 News|*Cleveland, OH*|





> GBI investigates fatal shooting of student on SSU campus â¦
> https://secure.fox.com/proxy/www.fox*carolina*.com/story/29899766/...





> Savannah State University student dies in shooting - *CNN*.com


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## gapeach (Dec 23, 2011)

Thanks BFF. It seemed yesterday that it was only being reported on local news. I wanted it to get attention because this is not the first shooting on campus and a rape last year. Whatever they need to do to make sure no one has a gun on campus, I hope that they will step up and get better security.
I was worried already about our boys having night classes but luckily they have the same schedule this semester and can ride together.


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## mreynolds (Jan 1, 2015)

Tricky Grama said:


> And can I assume you went on to murder folks on live TV?
> As well as you, RichNC?


Nope. But funny you bring that up. As a child I was pretty rotten until I was about 12 or so. My mom and dad were divorced for ten years but got back together. My father had a lot of bad habits to undo in me. I would hate too think how I might have turned out without his guidance. Nothing against my mother but there were five of us and she was working a lot. There just wasn't much more of her to spread around. 

By 14 I was spending all my spare time working the garden or tending the animals. Most nowadays would call that child abuse but without it I may have very well been in prison or worse. Everyone else's opinions will vary I guess.


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## Trixie (Aug 25, 2006)

There seems to be opinions that there are a lot of reasons for these crazy - or inexplicable crimes. No doubt that's true.

A lot of people in this country grew up in less than desirable conditions - some in downright horrendous conditions and became great human beings. 

I'm just curious about the whys of this. 

People are just wired differently and some respond to conditions one way and some another. That's internal. I'm wondering what external factors there may be -


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## Ozarks Tom (May 27, 2011)

Trixie said:


> There seems to be opinions that there are a lot of reasons for these crazy - or inexplicable crimes. No doubt that's true.
> 
> A lot of people in this country grew up in less than desirable conditions - some in downright horrendous conditions and became great human beings.
> 
> ...


Going back to my theory of the perfect storm, lots of gays feel disrespected and lots of blacks feel discriminated against. People on meds do well in society every day, and many people who harbor grudges never act on them. But, start stacking those things up, and some people break under the load.


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## Trixie (Aug 25, 2006)

Ozarks Tom said:


> Going back to my theory of the perfect storm, lots of gays feel disrespected and lots of blacks feel discriminated against. People on meds do well in society every day, and many people who harbor grudges never act on them. But, start stacking those things up, and some people break under the load.


Probably right - well, of course, that is a big factor.

Yes, a lot of people do function well on those meds, since there are a lot of them prescribed. 

Just thinking -


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## Laura Zone 5 (Jan 13, 2010)

When I was a child (a few decades ago) the doctors prescribed antibiotics for everything. I remember being on antibiotics ALL the time.......
Got a cough? antibiotics.
Got a sniffle? antibiotics.

When my kids were babies (early 90's) I changed doctors SEVERAL times because "everything" was an allergy that required allergy meds.
Once they were school age; everyone had ADD/ADHD/OCD/lmnop, etc. and needed ritalin (or the like) aderal, and so on.
When my kids were late teens.........they were all 'depressed' and needed antidepressants. 

It's like 'drugs' run in cycles; Big Pharma comes up w a new drug, and every doc under the sun prescribes it to the hilt. 

Side note: My OBGYN told me when I was preg. w/ my 1rst (early 1990) that he would rather I smoke cigarettes than to injest ANY aspartame. 
Told me to STAY away from artificial sweetners like my life depended on it; said it would destroy the lining of the babies brain, and a whole host of other problems.
He was SERIOUS, and adament. I listened. (and I quit smoking too, becasue that was the next speech)

Too many synthetics. Just too many chemicals in our systems from conception on.


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## plowjockey (Aug 18, 2008)

Trixie said:


> What is causing the increase in violence. I'm speaking of the shootings, etc.
> Not the one on one - or even drug wars - but the shootings like the TV reporter, schools, etc?
> 
> Are these people just defective?
> ...


Most, or all of the above.

We have become a nation, where it is most important to "settle the score", at whatever cost.

I see it in road rage every day, hear it on talk radio every day and fight from becoming that way myself, every day. Easy access to guns and pills, does not help.

We are all just becoming a society of _cornered rats_, IMO.


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## Evons hubby (Oct 3, 2005)

Guvmint cheese. We were warned. Nobody listened.


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## gapeach (Dec 23, 2011)

The shooter at Savannah State University on Thursday night has not been caught or identified. The victim, was trying to get away from him after he pulled the gun. The victim was a football player and throught that that he could get to a back door where he could escape but was shot, he was DOA at the hospital. There were witnesses but no one claims to know the shooter. Very sad..


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## Trixie (Aug 25, 2006)

Laura Zone 10 said:


> When I was a child (a few decades ago) the doctors prescribed antibiotics for everything. I remember being on antibiotics ALL the time.......
> .


I was so ignorant and naive when I had children, I believe most everything the doctor said - 

It took until he was 7 and about a dozen doctors before I found a doctor who realized my son had allergies. He told us to get some local honey and make sure he ate a lot of it. This was a very good doctor, but he also suffered from East Texas allergies.

That and raw cow's milk and this boy was cleared up, and busting out of his clothes within a very short period of time. It was miraculous.

I still feel guilt over that.

My daughter had a very bad pregnancy the 2nd time, couldn't keep anything down and lost weight - then got stomach flu and had to be hospitalized.

They brought in some medication and my daughter asked what it was - the nurse told her. My daughter said that isn't recommended for a pregnant woman - second medicatiion and she told her the same.

The doctor finally told her nurse to take her some book that listed all medications and a laptop computer and let her find her own medication.

She did - and all was well.


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## Laura Zone 5 (Jan 13, 2010)

I changed docs, like I changed diapers because I was NOT gonna have my kids on meds meds med........
My whole family and inlaws thought I was 'over the top' or 'had a hormonal issue' or ' i was a control freak, paranoid, ect'.

Ok......well......praise the Lord, my kids are healthy. 
A lot of their friends who DID take all the meds?
what a mess.........


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## watcher (Sep 4, 2006)

gapeach said:


> This man, Vester Flanagan, seems to me , that he had every opportunity to be a successful man. He had a very good education and many opportunities, good jobs, good family.
> 
> Whatever demons possessed him probably were not caused by his family, his jobs or even the people who worked with him. It must have been from his inner self.


The problem is society today feeds the demons which makes them stronger. If you have low self esteem and you are told over and over that your race is not as good as another is that going to help you become a stronger person? If you feel you are being over looked or bullied and you are told over and over people of your race and/or sexual orientation are ALWAYS treated that way by others is this going to reduce or build your anger?


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## watcher (Sep 4, 2006)

RichNC said:


> Were you every beaten by you 1'st grade teacher, who was later fired...and if you were was it with a paddle, and did you have welts and major bruises??


Trying to say because you were abused by a teacher therefore paddling should not be allowed in school is like saying because someone was abused by a parent all kids should be removed from their homes.

I can tell you when I went to school a lot of things did not happen because we didn't want to take the chance of getting paddled at school AND spanked at home for doing it.


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## Patchouli (Aug 3, 2011)

I ran across this today in another discussion and I think it really puts things into perspective. We are less violent today that we were in previous centuries. People killed each other over the mildest of insults in the 1700 and 1800s. 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_school_shootings_in_the_United_States

This is just 20 years: 



> *1850s*
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## AmericanStand (Jul 29, 2014)

watcher said:


> Trying to say because you were abused by a teacher therefore paddling should not be allowed in school is like saying because someone was abused by a parent all kids should be removed from their homes.


NO !
Each and every beating I got in school was undeserved. Don't get me wrong there were times I deserved a beating and didn't get one 
A 100% failure rate doesn't justify allowing them that power. 
I hold grudges as a adult I have administered correctional beatings to each of those idiots.


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## Trixie (Aug 25, 2006)

Patchouli said:


> I ran across this today in another discussion and I think it really puts things into perspective. We are less violent today that we were in previous centuries.


Well, possibly, 

You do realize we had slavery, 7 year old children working in coal mines and factories, young girls literally sold as wives, children turned out on the streets to fend for themselves because the family couldn't afford them, indentured servitude, women as chattel, attempted genocide of the American Indian, and a whole host of other things we have managed to change.

In other words, we are supposed to be a civilized society - 

To suggest we aren't as violent as we once were, doesn't negate the fact we are MORE violent than we should be. It also shouldn't any in any way suggest we should not be totally outraged at the violence, and work to stop it.


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## Patchouli (Aug 3, 2011)

Trixie said:


> Well, possibly,
> 
> You do realize we had slavery, 7 year old children working in coal mines and factories, young girls literally sold as wives, children turned out on the streets to fend for themselves because the family couldn't afford them, indentured servitude, women as chattel, attempted genocide of the American Indian, and a whole host of other things we have managed to change.
> 
> ...


I don't think anyone would disagree that with that.


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## gapeach (Dec 23, 2011)

*Manhunt
Police say woman's lie diverted manhunt for Illinois officer's killers*
Published September 03, 2015FoxNews.com
-video-


Police searching for the suspected killers of an Illinois officer said early Thursday that the manhunt was diverted by a woman who lied about seeing two suspicious men near the scene of the murder.

Kristin Kiefer, 30, has been charged with disorderly conduct and falsifying a police report. Authorities said she was being held at the Lake County jail pending a bond hearing. 

Police said they responded to a 911 call made by Kiefer at approximately 9:20 p.m. local time Wednesday in Volo, about 5 miles south of Fox Lake, where Lt. Charles Joseph Gliniewicz was fatally shot Tuesday after he pursued three suspicious men into a swamp. 

Kiefer told police she had pulled over to the side of the road with car trouble when she saw two men, one white and one black, near a cornfield. She claimed they tried to get into her car, but fled because they feared she was going to call the police. 

Lake County Sheriff's Sgt. Christopher Covelli says about 85 federal, state and local law enforcement officials responded to the scene after Kiefer's report. They were joined by 11 police dogs and three air support units in the search, which lasted approximately five hours
http://www.foxnews.com/us/2015/09/0...iverted-manhunt-for-illinois-officer-killers/

I think this woman does qualify for the crazy moniker.
However, the suspects are still at large and no one knows who they are.
Cops are targets.
Supporting criminals over police force, stating that if he had a son he'd be a criminal like Trayvon, not a word about dead cops, but sends reps to criminals funerals, but not officers funerals. Just to name a few.


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