# Mississippi is hungriest state?



## whiterock (Mar 26, 2003)

Just read a piece on the computer that says Mississippi is the hungriest state with 25% saying they had trouble putting food on the table. Louisiana and West Verginia each had 23%.

I just don't understand this. Maybe folks form those states can explain it better. Seems to me most of the people in those states live in small towns or rural areas. I never been to W.Va. but I don't think it is possible to travel more than 5 or six miles in any direction in MS and LA and not run up on a water source with fish and crawdads and lots of other edibles in it. It would seem that most folks there would hunt and garden, at least those with limited funds. 

I'm not pointing any fingers here. I seriously would like to know.

What's up folks?

Ed


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## AngieM2 (May 10, 2002)

My best guess is low paying job or two, apartment type section 8 housing, not knowing how to fish or money to get the equipment (at least in their minds). And if in section 8 housing, if you get an increase in income, the rent goes up so you don't get a nest egg to try to have property of your own.

Just some ideas of what I think from having been in government housing for a couple of years, and having traveled through Mississippi and have family from there.


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## Guest (Mar 26, 2014)

I'd like to know where they get those numbers from . I've lived in WV most of my life & can honestly say I've never known of anyone who didn't have enough to eat .
Hunting & fishing are big statewide & there is plenty of game & fish & a lot of people do garden . I have no idea where all these hungry people are or if they really do exist why .
There's not much in the way of big cities in WV but I guess that must be where those people are . I also find it ironic that the two fattest states are also the two hungriest .


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## Maura (Jun 6, 2004)

Many of the hungry people are those living on Social Security. They simply do not have enough money to eat every day of the month. I am a volunteer for Human Development and we routinely give out boxes of free food. It's not much, a bottle of fruit juice, a box of pasta, a few cans. It will vary. Many of the people are driven to the drop off by a social worker. Some of them are cognitively disabled (mentally retarded), but most are average people who never earned much money and therefore are receiving the low end of Social Security and have no pension. 

We tend to think of the poor as a couple or single mother with a couple of kids. And yes, this is a problem, but we forget about the elderly or those who are unable to work. People who live in the city may not have the transportation to go out of the city to fish or go to a u-Pick or what have you.


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## Guest (Mar 26, 2014)

Maura said:


> Many of the hungry people are those living on Social Security. They simply do not have enough money to eat every day of the month. I am a volunteer for Human Development and we routinely give out boxes of free food. It's not much, a bottle of fruit juice, a box of pasta, a few cans. It will vary. Many of the people are driven to the drop off by a social worker. Some of them are cognitively disabled (mentally retarded), but most are average people who never earned much money and therefore are receiving the low end of Social Security and have no pension.
> 
> We tend to think of the poor as a couple or single mother with a couple of kids. And yes, this is a problem, but we forget about the elderly or those who are unable to work. People who live in the city may not have the transportation to go out of the city to fish or go to a u-Pick or what have you.


Aren't those people eligible for food stamps or whatever they're called ?


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## Ernie (Jul 22, 2007)

WV Hillbilly said:


> I'd like to know where they get those numbers from . I've lived in WV most of my life & can honestly say I've never known of anyone who didn't have enough to eat .
> Hunting & fishing are big statewide & there is plenty of game & fish & a lot of people do garden . I have no idea where all these hungry people are or if they really do exist why .
> There's not much in the way of big cities in WV but I guess that must be where those people are . I also find it ironic that the two fattest states are also the two hungriest .


I've only driven THROUGH West Virginia but I saw some pretty blighted and poverty stricken folks when I was there. They looked hungry enough to eat ME.

The survey seems to have just asked who has trouble putting food on the table, not particularly who was "hungry". 

I have trouble putting food on the table every day, but food still ends up there somehow. This isn't some tropical jungle where you've just got to go out and shake a tree to get a full meal of delicious fruit. 

And we've got it relatively EASY compared to some folks I know. At least we've got eggs and dairy, and here in about another 5 weeks the garden will be yielding a bounty. I know folks who ain't even making it between their weekly allotted trips to the food pantry, and I know people who have lost their homes and had to move into tiny cramped quarters with either strangers or kinfolk who don't really want them there.

If I get caught shooting a deer out of season then my kids will be tilling the garden while I sit in county jail for six months. Heaven forbid they catch me down at the lake without a fishing permit. Texas law permits them to seize my truck and sell it at auction! So hunting and fishing isn't always an option unless you capitulate to the state and buy all their permits, oh, and only keep what they say you can keep, and in what amounts, and during whatever times of year they allocate for free men to feed their families.

There are a lot of people out there in very bad shape, and it's just getting worse. Folks like us who have a garden and a disregard for what the law says we can or can't do may be able to get by, but there's a lot of other people getting driven into the corner and squished.

I don't have ANY difficulty believing those figures, and I'm frankly surprised it ain't a whole lot worse.


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## Ernie (Jul 22, 2007)

WV Hillbilly said:


> Aren't those people eligible for food stamps or whatever they're called ?


One elderly woman we know who lives alone gets $180 per month for social security and $16 per month in food stamps.

$16 per month. I'm pretty thrifty but that would feed me for about 5 or 6 days at current grocery store prices. 

Her church sort of passes the hat for her and I think there's folks making sure her lawn gets mowed and she doesn't starve, but she's completely dependent upon the good will of others ... a substance that has been known to dry up fast and unexpectedly. She can't hardly hobble out to the church bus that takes her into town on Sunday so I don't think gardening is in what remains of her future. I've only been her neighbor for the past few years, but it seems like twice a year she's down with pneumonia or some other thing that requires hospitalization. Heck, even her cat has abandoned her and is feeding off my back porch a few nights every week (whenever she lets the poor thing out).

She's got two grown daughters who moved off to Dallas. I see them walking around in the driveway talking on their cellphones on Thanksgiving and Christmas, for their yearly two hour visit.


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## snowcap (Jul 1, 2011)

I wonder how much the gulf oil spill, coal mines shutting down and other industries shutting down has to do with this.
Contrary to what we are being told the economy is not getting back to where it was before the 2007 crash.
All the money printing didn't help keep food at a price where you can get as much as a family needs either.


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## lindamarie (Jul 9, 2013)

we live in southern west Virginia, been here 14 years. There is a lot of poverty here, people on welfare, ssi or unemployed and underemployed. There is also a lot of substance abuse. 

we're lucky, we live on the mountain away from town. The food pantry is located in a thrift store i go to, its two doors down from the library. There is always a line, singles, families and a lot elderly. Some people grow a garden in town, but not many. Up on the mountain there's more gardens. The mountain is wooded so more hunting also. Its a lot easier to hunt up here if you live up here. Not so easy if you live in town and don't drive. 

the river runs right along town, people fish, but you need a license. Not everyone can afford it.

we don't get food stamps, for the most part its just me and hubs. Sometimes there's 3 other months to feed. We garden, and cook from scratch, harvest wild foods when we can. For me to get the 13 miles to town to fish would take me about 2 hours. To get a deer would mean stepping out the back door. We gave never hunted but I want to learn. Chickens will be back in 2 weeks and I'm looking for a jersey again, we have raised pigs in the past. We get by because we can provide for ourselves.

there's a lot of hungry people in this town.


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## lindamarie (Jul 9, 2013)

a friend of mine gets stamps, $16.00 also. She's diabetic, has goats for milk, chickens, raised a hog and a steer. Her daughter gets $798.00 in stamps. When the chickens are laying and the pork is in the freezer they visit her often. Her daughter is usually out of food and out of stamps 2 1/2-3 weeks after she gets them.


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## Ernie (Jul 22, 2007)

lindamarie said:


> a friend of mine gets stamps, $16.00 also. She's diabetic, has goats for milk, chickens, raised a hog and a steer. Her daughter gets $798.00 in stamps. When the chickens are laying and the pork is in the freezer they visit her often. Her daughter is usually out of food and out of stamps 2 1/2-3 weeks after she gets them.


I gotta say ... since we left the world, dumpster diving has pulled us out of more than one tough food spot.

Kind of hurts my pride a little to admit that, but there you have it. Maybe it'll help somebody.

Convenience stores and grocery stores throw away enough food most days to fill up some bellies in a hungry (and not too picky) household.


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## lindamarie (Jul 9, 2013)

Ernie....things are going to get a lot worse for a lot of people. When the time comes that I need to put food on the table, no one is going to tell me I need a permit to shoot that deer in my yard. And if my grandbabies were here and hungry and we had no food, you can bet dh and I would do what ever it took to find them.

I'm lucky, dh and I are not to picky about what we eat. He's from Cuba, he's used to rice and beans and I like lentils.

its a shame what the country throws away. Hunger does exist in this country, a lot of people think it doesn't.


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## where I want to (Oct 28, 2008)

First you have to know how they get these stats. As far as I can tell, someone from the government call a certain number of people and asks if there was any point in the last year whether they didn't enough food for everyone in their household for everyone to function well. Or whether they had at anytime uncertainty about how they were going to obtain food enough- the famous food insecurity. As far as I know, no one actually verifies anything.
Of course the next stat is that Mississippi is also the second high one the list of percentage of obesity with 34% of adults being obese. Louisiana is first and I think WV is 4th.
I can't help wondering if those two are related.


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## snowcap (Jul 1, 2011)

Ernie said:


> I gotta say ... since we left the world, dumpster diving has pulled us out of more than one tough food spot.
> 
> Kind of hurts my pride a little to admit that, but there you have it. Maybe it'll help somebody.
> 
> Convenience stores and grocery stores throw away enough food most days to fill up some bellies in a hungry (and not too picky) household.


Most of the food they give out at the food bank here is day old bread from the grocery stores. We go and get the bread thats extra for chicken food.

We eat alot of fried egg sandwichs , bread stuffing and bread pudding.


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## gweny (Feb 10, 2014)

I don't really understand anyone being hungry in this country either? I was homeless for a couple years and I have never again eaten as good as I did then. I had steak and lobster every night if I wanted... Just sat out side a fancy restaurant and when someone walked out with a white box I'd ask them for it. 9 x outta 10 they'd hand me the box... I'd just keep doing it till I got a steak cooked the way I like. Threw the rest in the trash. 
Food is so ---- easy to come by in this country! I just don't believe people who say they're starving. I'd spend time spare changing back then too... Never spent a dime of that money on food.


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## sss3 (Jul 15, 2007)

Thinking DD who got $798 in food stamps, is selling/trading them. If a license for fishing is expensive, why can't more than one person share the cost? Fisherman could share his catch. One thing I've learned is, if you think about something long enough, usually an answer will be found.


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## Guest (Mar 26, 2014)

According to the chart halfway down this page the maximum amount of food stamps is $189 for the first person, and $95-150 per additional, with an additional $142 per person, after 7 members in the household. I'm not sure about food prices in stores, but $142 per person doesn't seem like enough of a grocery budget to have much left over to sell.


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## lindamarie (Jul 9, 2013)

I believe there is a difference in being hungry and starving. There are kids, elderly, middle aged people who go to bed hungry several times a month probably. Sine of the reasons are.....elderly, do you pay utilities, meds, rent or eat; middle aged, how many are underemployed and barely making it. They fall in limbo, have just enough income to pay bills and little left over for groceries; but are probably making as little as $10.00 a month over the food stamp limit. Kids, parents sold or traded the stamps and/or wic, parents don't make enough, or parents don't or won't provide a proper meal. Whether cash or stamps if $700 is spent on junk food and empty calories rather than a good meal you are hungry. 

hungry and starving are two different things.


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## lindamarie (Jul 9, 2013)

gweny said:


> I don't really understand anyone being hungry in this country either? I was homeless for a couple years and I have never again eaten as good as I did then. I had steak and lobster every night if I wanted... Just sat out side a fancy restaurant and when someone walked out with a white box I'd ask them for it. 9 x outta 10 they'd hand me the box... I'd just keep doing it till I got a steak cooked the way I like. Threw the rest in the trash.
> Food is so ---- easy to come by in this country! I just don't believe people who say they're starving. I'd spend time spare changing back then too... Never spent a dime of that money on food.


 
did you think of offering the steak that wasn't cooked to your satisfaction to another who might have needed a meal? I guess since it didn't cost you anything it was just easier to throw it in the trash.


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## Ernie (Jul 22, 2007)

Well, let's just say the situation ain't washing over everyone equally, and a visit from the game warden ALMOST turned disastrous here when our fat, retired-from-the-state neighbor called a game warden on me. 

So while you and I might do whatever it takes, there's still the government to contend with and anyone else who can see what you're doing with a pair of binoculars.


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## lindamarie (Jul 9, 2013)

zong said:


> According to the chart halfway down this page the maximum amount of food stamps is $189 for the first person, and $95-150 per additional, with an additional $142 per person, after 7 members in the household. I'm not sure about food prices in stores, but $142 per person doesn't seem like enough of a grocery budget to have much left over to sell.


 
some people trade their stamps for diapers or toilet paper. Others have no problem sell or trading hundreds if dollars for their next fix, be it pills, cigarettes or booze. When you have an addiction to you really care if there is enough left over for food. Kids can get breakfast and lunch in school and there's always grandmas.


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## Ernie (Jul 22, 2007)

A complete collapse of civilization is the BEST CASE SCENARIO as it affords most everyone an equal chance of survival.

But in Texas, you got programs like this ...
*
Operation Game Thief is Texas' Wildlife Crime-Stoppers Program, offering rewards of up to $1,000 for information leading to the arrest and conviction for a wildlife crime. Begun in 1981 as a result of laws passed by the 67th Legislature to help curtail poaching, the program, a function of the Law Enforcement division of The Texas Parks and Wildlife Department, is highly successful, having been responsible for the payment of over $195,000 in rewards.*

So if you've got neighbors who can see onto your property (and in this part of Texas where you can easily see 2 miles from the top of a small hill), then you may also have a neighbor who thinks turning you in for shooting a deer out of season is worth a $1000. Especially since they can do it anonymously.


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## lindamarie (Jul 9, 2013)

snowcap said:


> Most of the food they give out at the food bank here is day old bread from the grocery stores. We go and get the bread thats extra for chicken food.
> 
> We eat alot of fried egg sandwichs , bread stuffing and bread pudding.


there's nothing wrong with egg sandwiches, we ate quite a bit ourselves. I find a egg sandwich goes down much better than a steak or lobster. Its pretty hard to go thru a loaf of bread until you find the slice that was cooked to your satisfaction.


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## lindamarie (Jul 9, 2013)

Ernie said:


> A complete collapse of civilization is the BEST CASE SCENARIO as it affords most everyone an equal chance of survival.
> 
> But in Texas, you got programs like this ...
> 
> ...


while you were trying to put food on the table, your neighbor has found a way to supplement his income, probably tax free, and from the government. Just when I think nothing surprises me anymore....


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## wally (Oct 9, 2007)

Ernie, I know what you are talking about. As a land owner ,me and my wife are able to harvest 5 deer each, about 55 dollars for tags for all 5 tags.. not a bad investment for several hundred pounds of meat..I take maybe one deer a year as that is all the venison we need..I have no problem with some one taking a deer if they need and will use the meat..what gets under my skin is the city boy who pays thousand of dollars to hire a guide and have access to a place to hunt, they harvest a deer, haul it to the city to be processed,take it home and put it in the freezer then throw it out a year later because none of it was eaten and is now freezer burned. P.S. I wont let the city boys hunt any of my ground


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## Ernie (Jul 22, 2007)

wally said:


> Ernie, I know what you are talking about. As a land owner ,me and my wife are able to harvest 5 deer each, about 55 dollars for tags for all 5 tags.. not a bad investment for several hundred pounds of meat..I take maybe one deer a year as that is all the venison we need..I have no problem with some one taking a deer if they need and will use the meat..what gets under my skin is the city boy who pays thousand of dollars to hire a guide and have access to a place to hunt, they harvest a deer, haul it to the city to be processed,take it home and put it in the freezer then throw it out a year later because none of it was eaten and is now freezer burned. P.S. I wont let the city boys hunt any of my ground


Hunting is big business out here, which is why the state controls it so rigidly.

Almost everyone I know hunts, but they all share a dim view of the "poacher", who is basically anyone who shoots a deer outside of the narrow timeline that the state sets aside for it, whether it's on their own property or not.

They all take great pride that they shoot extra deer every year to give to the game warden's special "donate deer meat to feed the hungry" program.

They look at me blankly when I point out the irony that the government runs a program to feed hungry people while actively preventing them from working on their own to feed themselves.


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## mpillow (Jan 24, 2003)

Interestingly enough Miss. and WV are tops on the "obese states" list...at approx 35%
http://www.livescience.com/43828-most-and-least-obese-states.html


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## Ernie (Jul 22, 2007)

mpillow said:


> Interestingly enough Miss. and WV are tops on the "obese states" list...at approx 35%
> http://www.livescience.com/43828-most-and-least-obese-states.html


That's just how it works. The worst and most fattening foods are almost the cheapest.

It's cheaper to fill your belly full of mac and cheese than it is to fill your belly with sausage and okra.

We avoid those fattening foods like the plague they are. A dire economic situation ain't made any better by lugging around a big fat belly and a myriad of health problems that go with it.

Time for me to head into town though. There's sort of a "Povery Grapevine" as I like to call it, where friends and relatives who are in the same sort of economic situation all keep each other in mind and look out for each other. A lady who me and the boys helped move when she got evicted (could no longer afford the rent) just called and said that chicken legs and quarters are on sale for $0.59 a pound in town. 

So I'm going to take about $30 down there and see if I can't fill up our fridge.


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## where I want to (Oct 28, 2008)

The reality is that the statistic as gathered by the government does not reflect reality of hunger. No matter how much high calory food you eat, no one who is obese spends much time being hungry for long. Food insecurity is a made up term that can mean lack of planning, drug addiction, mental illness, inability to drive, or real need due to unusual but rare circumstances. They were created because they are stats that are easy to get. Just put enough people on the phone once a year to ask a question. 
Yet they are used by social lobbyists for all sorts of demands for things totally unrelated to the real issues. For instance, if a person is mentally ill and unable to provide himself with basic needs, then giving someone else food stamps to sell does not treat his mental illness. Food stamps does not get him food daily. But it is easier to pass out food stamps than get him into treatment. Or a family gets food stamps, sends their kids to school for free lunch, and here free breakfast, yet someone has started a charity to provide a package of food given to the child because they percieve a lack of food for the child over the weekend, there is a problem with the whole system.
In our county, the Dept of Social Services uses 2/3rds of the county budget. The remaining 1/3 repairs the road, clears up illegal dumps, funds the police, etc. Yet the never seems to be an end to the demand for more social services. 
There is no way to determine this because no one keeps stats but when all the people getting grants, working for various charities or for government social services were added together, I suspect they are by far the biggest employer in the county, if not the state yet we supposedly never gain on the problems. There is something wrong with the whole thing.


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## mpillow (Jan 24, 2003)

Some of my bargains in the middle of winter in Maine...
40# box leg Quarters $26 always avail. at 79c/#
100# potatoes $16
5# carrots 2.50$
Things that are always cheap shank ham 99c/lb (a 10# lasts all week in various dishes)
20# rice $10
quick oats at healthfood store 10# for less than $8
Pork and beans .59c ....$6 for 10 approx
and ramen soup! 6 for $1

so for $85 you CAN get a lot of food....bump it up 100 with spices, brown sugar,frozen mix veg, coffee/tea....

granted carbs are cheap....but I feel like a lot of people don't even care to "TRY" to be healthy and frugal...

My mother now would NEVER buy the 40# box of chix legs and split it with someone....it just isnt in her to do it....but she used to when she had 6 kids at home...


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## mpillow (Jan 24, 2003)

where I want to said:


> The reality is that the statistic as gathered by the government does not reflect reality of hunger. No matter how much high calory food you eat, no one who is obese spends much time being hungry for long. Food insecurity is a made up term that can mean lack of planning, drug addiction, mental illness, inability to drive, or real need due to unusual but rare circumstances. They were created because they are stats that are easy to get. Just put enough people on the phone once a year to ask a question.
> Yet they are used by social lobbyists for all sorts of demands for things totally unrelated to the real issues. For instance, if a person is mentally ill and unable to provide himself with basic needs, then giving someone else food stamps to sell does not treat his mental illness. Food stamps does not get him food daily. But it is easier to pass out food stamps than get him into treatment. Or a family gets food stamps, sends their kids to school for free lunch, and here free breakfast, yet someone has started a charity to provide a package of food given to the child because they percieve a lack of food for the child over the weekend, there is a problem with the whole system.
> In our county, the Dept of Social Services uses 2/3rds of the county budget. The remaining 1/3 repairs the road, clears up illegal dumps, funds the police, etc. Yet the never seems to be an end to the demand for more social services.
> There is no way to determine this because no one keeps stats but when all the people getting grants, working for various charities or for government social services were added together, I suspect they are by far the biggest employer in the county, if not the state yet we supposedly never gain on the problems. There is something wrong with the whole thing.


I agree 1000%


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## elkhound (May 30, 2006)

mpillow....the last bit i been deboning leg/thigh quarters.....they cook better on grill and gather so much more flavor in smoker its unreal by them having more exposed surface.i save bones for stock.....i have been deboning whole chickens too and i really like how it cooks better than leaving whole.


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## Becka03 (Mar 29, 2009)

gweny said:


> I don't really understand anyone being hungry in this country either? I was homeless for a couple years and I have never again eaten as good as I did then. I had steak and lobster every night if I wanted... Just sat out side a fancy restaurant and when someone walked out with a white box I'd ask them for it. 9 x outta 10 they'd hand me the box... I'd just keep doing it till I got a steak cooked the way I like. Threw the rest in the trash.
> Food is so ---- easy to come by in this country! I just don't believe people who say they're starving. I'd spend time spare changing back then too... Never spent a dime of that money on food.



I find it disgusting that you would throw food in the trash that was edible- and I find it disturbing that you would admit that-
I also think with that attitude you will be homeless eventually again- and maybe learn your lesson...

I have ZERO tolerance for someone throwing out food and taking advantage of other people and braggin about it-


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## Ernie (Jul 22, 2007)

elkhound said:


> mpillow....the last bit i been deboning leg/thigh quarters.....they cook better on grill and gather so much more flavor in smoker its unreal by them having more exposed surface.i save bones for stock.....i have been deboning whole chickens too and i really like how it cooks better than leaving whole.


That's what we do here. I'll cook 6 or 7 thighs in a pot and then when they're good and cooked, I'll pull out the thigh and use a fork to pull all the meat off the bone. Then the meat and bones both go back into the pot for some more stewing.

That's largely how we cook. If I cooked 6 thighs then it ain't going to feed us very far, but if I pull off the meat and put it in a pot and make a stew out of it, with carrots and potatoes and onions then everyone can get full and have at least some meat. 

Soups and stews go farther and make you feel more full. Plus I can mix and match odd lots of items. Got some chicken and some hot links? Cut everything up and dump it in a pot. It'll be good. 

About a month from now the garden ought to be starting to produce some stuff. Two months from now, if the water holds out, we ought to have more food than we can shake a stick at. But we're not yet producing enough year round to be able to fill our larders. That's going to take a few more years at least.


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## whiterock (Mar 26, 2003)

The story kinda blamed the states for the way they have programs set up, how to get the moneys, where, etc. I also see that the cheap foods are the most fattening. I seem to recall that some of the worst spending went on high price things because the better for the money things weren't on the list to buy. I don't know any of the rules, or set ups myself though.

I live alone, and usually buy things on sale after reading over the circulars I get in the mailbox. I have noticed that in some cases it seems cheaper for me to go to town and eat some TEX- MEX once a day that to burn high dollar propane to cook something I already got. There again, mostly rice and beans with a little meat rolled up in a tortilla. 

It just is surprising to me that the states listed as hungriest are states that to me are mostly rural, and to my mind, would have the reputation of being able to produce or harvest from the wild far more food than people from more urban areas could think possible. I understand the old part, I don't move around so good myself now. I understand the lower income part, I get less now that when I worked, but, I got divorced and that saved me an unbelievable amt of money, she was a chronic spender.

Just can't wrap my mind around a population of mostly rural/small town living people that rank at the top of the "hungy" list. 

Ed


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## crtreedude (Jun 14, 2006)

I have always noticed people who having resources, didn't prepare. Yes, there are people who have no ability to get their own food - but there are a lot more who aren't doing anything. 

We are all lazy to a point, and will take the path of least resistance. For some, that is being dependent on others. Myself, I don't tend to trust the benevolence of others, and especially the government, all that much. 

Part of the breakdown is that unless you have someone showing you how to hunt, fish, grow vegetables, you tend to do pretty poorly for a while.


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## thequeensblessing (Mar 30, 2003)

Ernie said:


> One elderly woman we know who lives alone gets $180 per month for social security and $16 per month in food stamps.
> 
> $16 per month. I'm pretty thrifty but that would feed me for about 5 or 6 days at current grocery store prices.
> 
> ...


I think this is a shame, but dare I say, at the risk of getting flamed (won't be the first time!) that this is a fine example of people who didn't prepare for their senior years when they were younger. And I know what I'm talking about because my own mother is one of them. She and my dad saved nothing, invested nothing, and continually refinanced their home to pay their day to day living expenses. My mother worked outside the home for as long as she was able. My father was a stay at home Homesteader who could have gotten a job, but could never keep one for long. In the 60's and 70's a woman just didn't earn enough to truly be the bread winner, at least not in rural small town America. So, my parents lived one day at a time, living in the present and never looking toward, or thinking about the future. My parents didn't even have any life insurance, so when my father died, my mother was left to try to pay for his funeral and keep herself going. She had to sell the home, her car, and a lot of her belongings. She gets $650 a month in income, period. She wants to keep her independence for as long as she can rather than live with us. So we found her a 1 bedroom senior apartment in a subsidized housing unit for seniors. Its a new building, very nice, and its gated, so its secure. Its not the governments fault that she gets so little. Its hers, and my dad's, for having their heads in the sand about the future. I've tried to learn from their mistakes. DH and I both have life insurance, we have investments and retirement accounts, real estate investments, savings and we're out of debt except for our farm, something we're working hard to have paid off in the next few years. If it were just my parents, I could perhaps make an excuse for it, but there seems to be a lot and I mean a LOT of seniors and baby boomers in this same situation. No, my parents didn't have a lot of "extra" money, but they did have some disposable income. They just chose to spend it on other things, things that ultimately cost my father his life, such as smoking, rather than spend it on things that might make their senior years more comfortable and worry-free. 
My sisters don't have a lot to do with my mom. They live like she did and will be in the same boat she's in when they are her age. There's really no excuse for it other than personal choices, at least that's the case with my mother and father and my sisters.


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## Ernie (Jul 22, 2007)

whiterock said:


> Just can't wrap my mind around a population of mostly rural/small town living people that rank at the top of the "hungy" list.
> 
> Ed


Well, around here the small towns are just low-population big towns. Same mindset, same lifestyle. There ain't no mental difference between them and someone in inner city Detroit. They still have to have a job and a nearby grocery store.

Rural doesn't mean self-sufficient. You don't only have folks like me who live on pretty thin margins, but you've got a lot of folks who get by on some sort of government subsidy, be it a retirement, social security, or welfare. 

Rural America ain't thriving. Not anywhere I've ever been.


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## lindamarie (Jul 9, 2013)

don't know how it is in other small towns/rural areas but this is what I see here....

the town/county I live in has a large elderly and unemployed/underemployed population. It also has a large substance abuse population. As soon as they can the young people that are able move away. People also consider gardening, fishing and hunting work. Especially gardening. It used to be that families worked together to put the garden in and then harvest. Hunting and fishing was something that grandfathers, fathers and sons did together. Its not like that anymore.

hunting is now a sport for most. A way to hung out and drink. I offered someone to hunt on my land. We have a whole herd here along with bear. Dh and I both grew up in cities and have never hunted. I am trying so hard to learn. Anyway, they showed up at dawn, let me know they were here. They came back later to let me know they were leaving, told me thanks, they saw several does and a buck and would they mind if they left their trash so they didn't have to haul it back out the 2 1/2 miles to the truck. Beer and soda cans, junk food wrappers. 

growing, harvesting and cooking food takes work. That's just gardening, throw in raising chickens, milking, butchering, canning...thats really work. Not to mention that most people don't know how to do any of that. Most people are shocked to find out that you ate that egg that came out of that chicken.

just because one lives in a small town or rural does not make one any better than the city person at providing for themselves.


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## whiterock (Mar 26, 2003)

Ernie, I'm in agreement, my area is becoming Plano south. I just think of LA and MS as being MORE self sufficient than the more urban states. Hunger up in cities, I understand. Across the whole rural state, I find it hard to grasp. 

Of course, I know it is the mind set that has been taught to so many people. So many are so far removed from the land, so many don't know how to cook REAL food and rely on packed crap to put in a microwave. Economy knocking the pins from under those people as well. 

All of us here know generally what is happening, just seems to me that some KNOW better and could provide more of their own needs.

Ed


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## lindamarie (Jul 9, 2013)

Ernie said:


> That's what we do here. I'll cook 6 or 7 thighs in a pot and then when they're good and cooked, I'll pull out the thigh and use a fork to pull all the meat off the bone. Then the meat and bones both go back into the pot for some more stewing.
> 
> That's largely how we cook. If I cooked 6 thighs then it ain't going to feed us very far, but if I pull off the meat and put it in a pot and make a stew out of it, with carrots and potatoes and onions then everyone can get full and have at least some meat.
> 
> ...


those legs and thighs cook up pretty good. Since I have no refrigerator or freezer I can them up. Cook them up, pull meat off bone, cook some more. I get meat and broth. Throw in some veggies, rice noodles, what have you and maybe some biscuits and you have a meal, and its filling.


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## where I want to (Oct 28, 2008)

The dividing issue for me is not that there are people who need subsidies to live but that so many go on and on about not having any responsiblility for their situation. There are really very, very , very few cases where a person is totally at the mercy of chance. Some one born with a debilitating disease or being hit by a drunk driver and so injured they could never work again. The rest is bad planning, or, more likely, no planning at all.
The number of people who make poor choices and end up with bad results are overwhelmingly the majority. Their choices play a substantial part even if some bad luck is involved.
The harm in this is that it makes it ok to not do better, to avoid digging in and at least do what you can for yourself. Why should anyone do what they don't want to do when they can get sympathy for their misfortune by not doing anything and condemnation if they admit their mistakes and work to fix them. Saying I screwed up and working to do better is a lonely road. You get blame and, since you are responsible, people think you need no help.
But it is the only road to a better life. And luckily is the one most adults learn to walk. It helps no one to compensate someone who simply plops down and refuses to move unless carried.


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## bowdonkey (Oct 6, 2007)

Becka03 said:


> I find it disgusting that you would throw food in the trash that was edible- and I find it disturbing that you would admit that-
> I also think with that attitude you will be homeless eventually again- and maybe learn your lesson...
> 
> I have ZERO tolerance for someone throwing out food and taking advantage of other people and braggin about it-


Lighten up! But yes, she could have used it in a crawdad trap or something.


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## Becka03 (Mar 29, 2009)

bowdonkey said:


> Lighten up! But yes, she could have used it in a crawdad trap or something.





> *Threw the rest in the trash.*


I would lighten up but - being as though I know what it is like to go to bed hungry as a child- I highlighted her/his statement that the OP threw it in the trash-disgusting- and appalling...

I have many things I can forgive- begging for food and then throwing it out- is not one of those things


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## ROSEMAMA (Jan 12, 2007)

lindamarie,
We see the same type of mindset here, too. Town of about 2400 people in a county of about 75000. We are the only ones in about a 8 block area that do any veggie garden. There are only about half-doz that do a big garden. None of us are under 40 y/o. 

Chickens aren't allowed in town. Not even a handful of laying hens-period! There's a huge feral cat problem, but hens are a health threat (sheesh!) I guess we could make Kababs from the cats and pretend it's chicken :chicken:


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## where I want to (Oct 28, 2008)

Ernie said:


> One elderly woman we know who lives alone gets $180 per month for social security and $16 per month in food stamps.
> 
> $16 per month. I'm pretty thrifty but that would feed me for about 5 or 6 days at current grocery store prices.
> 
> ...


There is something wrong with this. Not that I'm saying that you're lying, not at all. She may even think this but the minimum benefit on SSI is over $400 dollars in every state. That mean that either she has more income or resources or she has refused to get SSI. So whatever is going on is much more complicated.


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## lindamarie (Jul 9, 2013)

we live outside of town, up on the mountain and way way back in the woods. But even up here, where its zoned for farming, people will still run up and down this mountain to get to McDonalds, dairy queen, pizza hut or the convince store. Our only grocery stores are Kroger and a save a lot. Nearest WalMart in the next 2 biggest towns. Actually the next 2 counties. One has a WalMart supercenter and a sams, from town about 50 miles, other county supercenter, no sams, from town about 55 miles.

funny, our town/county is poverty ridden, burned out and abandoned buildings, major drug stings, but the next county over is quite the hippster town, my daughter lives on the outskirts and works her butt off. This little town was voted the coolest small town in America. There's only 50 some miles between hip and thriving and burned and dying.


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## lindamarie (Jul 9, 2013)

oh, and before I get flamed...some of you know from other posts that I have a daughter that's an addict so I have first hand knowledge of drug addiction, and welfare abuse. We have another DD who had a special needs child so we know about dealing with that also. Each of these daughters live in one of these towns.

as a mom I am caught in the middle. I get to see how a daughter struggles to do everything she can for her child and I also get to see how my DD and sil, well the other side of life for my dgds.

yes, probably a thread drift but wanted you to know that I'm not coming at some of this blind. The rose colored glasses were gone eons ago.


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## elkhound (May 30, 2006)

Ernie said:


> That's what we do here. I'll cook 6 or 7 thighs in a pot and then when they're good and cooked, I'll pull out the thigh and use a fork to pull all the meat off the bone. Then the meat and bones both go back into the pot for some more stewing.
> 
> That's largely how we cook. If I cooked 6 thighs then it ain't going to feed us very far, but if I pull off the meat and put it in a pot and make a stew out of it, with carrots and potatoes and onions then everyone can get full and have at least some meat.
> 
> ...



i debone before cooking mostly.....unless i am cooking dumplings or stews. i really like meat cooked on woodfire/smoked.but being single its just me...so one of them big bags of quarters i can pretty much OD in a week on it for $5.90-7.90/10# bag.


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## BlueRose (Mar 7, 2013)

Yes, SSI is $400 or better however, if you are over a certain age you have to go on Social Security and that can be as low as $142 that is a big drop from $400.


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## elkhound (May 30, 2006)

you know one thing many of us have not mentioned or talked about? all this so called security in old age from things like social security.401k,company retirements,etc etc etc is a very new thing in history of this world.....all less than a 100 years old...use to be family took care of each other......growing up my family helped each other on the big ticket items/jobs...like hog killing...steer butchering..haying...or whatever the need may be....i aint talking about keeping addicts,drunks etc up.

i can see our society has fallen because its not based on land/farm/agrarian society...for the most part.

i know people who lost everything because they took the word of a company...work for us 30 years get a retirement....invest in your 401k...yea right..guy i know lost all retirement..and $100,000 because the higher ups used the money for "improvements" to business....this was way before 2008 too.....yall remember ENRON dont you?

like my grandaddy told me..if it aint in ya hand/possession you dont really have it.


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## where I want to (Oct 28, 2008)

BlueRose said:


> Yes, SSI is $400 or better however, if you are over a certain age you have to go on Social Security and that can be as low as $142 that is a big drop from $400.


But the total between SSI and Social Security is always more than SSI alone.


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## elkhound (May 30, 2006)

gap babies get less that everyone else on SS

the govt wont have to worry much longer they all are about dead now


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## where I want to (Oct 28, 2008)

elkhound said:


> gap babies get less that everyone else on SS
> w


There is a reason for arguing things out. That is not true. Gap babies got less that pre-gap people but the same or more than post gap people. That was the change- benefits were calculated the old way without additional colas and the new way. Gap people got the higher of the two.


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## elkhound (May 30, 2006)

where I want to said:


> There is a reason for arguing things out. That is not true. Gap babies got less that pre-gap people but the same or more than post gap people. That was the change- benefits were calculated the old way without additional colas and the new way. Gap people got the higher of the two.


my granny is a gap baby....you wouldnt believe how little she gets...and worked till 81...shes now 93...we were told she gets less because she was born in those gap years...her check reflects it too.if theres no gap why does/did SS list the years?


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## Guest (Mar 26, 2014)

From Answers.usa.gov 
"*Minimum Monthly Social Security Benefit
*There is no minimum monthly Social Security retirement benefit, but for administrative reasons, the SSA will not pay a benefit of less than $1."
Maximum is $2642*.... with equality for all.
*retiring in 2014 at age 66.


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## where I want to (Oct 28, 2008)

elkhound said:


> my granny is a gap baby....you wouldnt believe how little she gets...and worked till 81...shes now 93...we were told she gets less because she was born in those gap years...her check reflects it too.


But it was not true what you were told. There lots of groups that sprung up purporting to work to reverse the change and they solicited money and made themselves rich by saying that. They did it to convince people that they should contribute.
That was the time I was working for Social Security and, pre computer calculation, did a whole lot of those calculations by hand.

I did not see the question about listing gap years. I don't know what exactly you see there but I suppose the purpose is to explain the transition from one calculation to the other. As I said, during that transition period a benefit was calculated both the old and new ways, with limited colas applied retroactively, and the person got the higher of the two. So although they might get less than earlier people they got as much as later people or more.


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## where I want to (Oct 28, 2008)

zong said:


> From Answers.usa.gov
> "*Minimum Monthly Social Security Benefit
> *There is no minimum monthly Social Security retirement benefit, but for administrative reasons, the SSA will not pay a benefit of less than $1."


And that means?


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## wally (Oct 9, 2007)

mpillow,you are right smart shopping can go a long way in providing meals for your family..this week one of our stores has Van Camps pork and beans for .29 cents and no limit..one guess on whats going into the pantry this week


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## mnn2501 (Apr 2, 2008)

zong said:


> According to the chart halfway down this page the maximum amount of food stamps is $189 for the first person, and $95-150 per additional, with an additional $142 per person, after 7 members in the household. I'm not sure about food prices in stores, but $142 per person doesn't seem like enough of a grocery budget to have much left over to sell.


The actual name for the food stamp program is "*Supplemental *nutrition assistance program"

Its to *supplement* what you buy, not take over.


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## Guest (Mar 26, 2014)

where I want to said:


> And that means?


Exactly what it says.


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## Guest (Mar 26, 2014)

mnn2501 said:


> The actual name for the food stamp program is "*Supplemental *nutrition assistance program"
> 
> Its to *supplement* what you buy, not take over.


My post was a statement of fact, from the government's own website explaining the benefits. Perhaps, if you have a problem with the government and their website, you should take it up with them. I did not make the rules, set the amounts, pay the benefits, or anything else associated with the program, merely direct people to a website with the actual numbers on it. However, being an American citizen who votes, pays taxes, and serves jury duty, I apologize on, not behalf of, but be-1/300millionth of the USA for any confusion.


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## mpillow (Jan 24, 2003)

wally said:


> mpillow,you are right smart shopping can go a long way in providing meals for your family..this week one of our stores has Van Camps pork and beans for .29 cents and no limit..one guess on whats going into the pantry this week


I'm jealous!


So the list I posted for$100 could last 3-4 people a month or 1 person 3-4 months...not the perfect food pyramid but a decent SUPPLEMENT!

I am apecrap mad when I see a family of 4 getting 200-700$ a month and whining they need more...or having so much that they can "sell" for bad habits...and then the taxpayers get the related medical bills to boot...
no accountability and no responsibility ANYWHERE!


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## mnn2501 (Apr 2, 2008)

whiterock said:


> Ernie, I'm in agreement, my area is becoming Plano south.


Hey, there's a number of Planoites that garden and raise animals. Not all Plano is rich and living in McMansions. There are rich people in Plano and poor people in Plano and a whole lot inbetween, there are even somewhat rural parts of Plano left, although it shrinks every year.


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## mnn2501 (Apr 2, 2008)

zong said:


> My post was a statement of fact, from the government's own website explaining the benefits. Perhaps, if you have a problem with the government and their website, you should take it up with them. I did not make the rules, set the amounts, pay the benefits, or anything else associated with the program, merely direct people to a website with the actual numbers on it. However, being an American citizen who votes, pays taxes, and serves jury duty, I apologize on, not behalf of, but be-1/300millionth of the USA for any confusion.


But your assumption that that is all a person/family has to live on was not fact.


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## Ernie (Jul 22, 2007)

I don't really know too many details about the lady's situation. I stopped one day to help her drag her trash can to the curb and I got half her life story and a breakdown of all her finances (or lack thereof) before I made it back to the truck. So it's possible I only have part of the story there.


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## where I want to (Oct 28, 2008)

There seems a confusion between SSI and SSA. Social Security benefits are basically based on work on which Social Security taxes were paid. There are other factors but the primany is how much you paid in. SSI, on the other hand, has only to do with income and resources. The various states set the levels based on different households. Some states include food stamps in it, others pay food stamps seperately.
With SSA most deduction, etc come from age at start of benefts, offset for work and coordination with other SSA benefits. If you won a million dolkar lottery, it would not effect benefits. 
SSI deducts for other income, like Social Security, changes in living arrangements, etc. So the amount you get can change depending on what you get or don't get each month. 
This is the simple version of both programs. 
I can't tell you the number of times I heard the complaint about starting getting Social Security and it reducing SSI. That is because SSI is a set amount and most other income reduces it.


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## mpillow (Jan 24, 2003)

I had to laugh the other day...on the local news they had a story about a soup kitchen in Portland taking fish donation from local ice fishing derby (fresh water)....they made it clear that they would only take "large" amounts of fish from events such as a derby because protein was becoming a budget buster for the charity.

So you cant make a pot of chowder with 5# of fish from a hobby fisherman? How stupid is that!


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## where I want to (Oct 28, 2008)

Ernie said:


> I don't really know too many details about the lady's situation. I stopped one day to help her drag her trash can to the curb and I got half her life story and a breakdown of all her finances (or lack thereof) before I made it back to the truck. So it's possible I only have part of the story there.


I'm afraid that working for Social Security gave me a jaunticed view of horrifying stories. Many people adjust their story to the person they tell, not to lie always but to get the response they want. Unfortunately, I was in a position to be disabused of stories due to being forced to get so much documentation.
One of the most common phrases I heard that meant different things to different people was "I've worked all my life" often followed by "and that's all I get?"
For some that meant they worked a couple of years in their twenties, followed by some prison time, followed by a season of work every 2 or 3 years. For others, it meant the worked 2 or 3 jobs every year from the time they were 16 til they came to file at 65.


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## mpillow (Jan 24, 2003)

My neighbor who was a severe alcoholic until he stroked out....and now can barely walk and talk...worked here and there off and on....gets $700 disability, $200 a month EBT, free health ins., dental, heating assistance....owns his own doublewide, 2 car garage and ATV...plow truck...
His mom who gets a RR retirement(1500$/month)from ex husband lives with him....together they make more than we do with 5 people....but we "qualify" for very little...so the system is "messy"


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## where I want to (Oct 28, 2008)

mpillow said:


> My neighbor who was a severe alcoholic until he stroked out....and now can barely walk and talk...worked here and there off and on....gets $700 disability, $200 a month EBT, free health ins., dental, heating assistance....owns his own doublewide, 2 car garage and ATV...plow truck...
> His mom who gets a RR retirement(1500$/month)from ex husband lives with him....together they make more than we do with 5 people....but we "qualify" for very little...so the system is "messy"


It comes from a piecemeal system cobbled together for years at different government levels. And a lot of court cases too. Deserving is a word that causes a lot of problems.
But just try to change it and the entrenched interests come out with teeth bared.


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## Guest (Mar 26, 2014)

mnn2501 said:


> But your assumption that that is all a person/family has to live on was not fact.


Oh, I see. You're saying if there was other income. But people who have zero income, which is how you end up with the maximum amount of food stamps, have zero income to buy groceries with, so it is fact. or what? You only end up with the maximum amount when you have no income. So, if you take zero income, and buy groceries, then you can sell food stamps? Nah, The numbers given for maximum food stamp benefits are for no income, or so little as to not even be able to survive at all. Here is an online calculator, you might be surprised at the facts, when you plug in different amounts of income.


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## Liberty'sGirl (Jul 7, 2012)

zong said:


> According to the chart halfway down this page the maximum amount of food stamps is $189 for the first person, and $95-150 per additional, with an additional $142 per person, after 7 members in the household. I'm not sure about food prices in stores, but $142 per person doesn't seem like enough of a grocery budget to have much left over to sell.


Hmmmm...my husband and I each have $150 per month for food. Sort of an allowance that includes taking his dad out for breakfast and food for work. Here I was thinking that was too much because the expenses are getting so tight with utilities and transportation that something has to give. Guess food won't be it. 

PS Slight thread drift. How do y'all deal with tight budgets and tithing/giving to charity?


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## PricklyThistle (Feb 6, 2014)

Ernie said:


> They look at me blankly when I point out the irony that the government runs a program to feed hungry people while actively preventing them from working on their own to feed themselves.


I have No respect for a law that keeps people hungry, and I really suspect that's the main idea behind the existence of such laws.


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## TheMartianChick (May 26, 2009)

Just to throw another wrinkle into the Social Security discussion, some people are completely ineligible to collect, even though they worked their entire lives. I don't understand all of it (though mom explained it to me a while back), but both of my parents were state employees for most of their professional lives. State employees weren't part of the Social Security system and there were some changes made which gave employees the opportunity to "opt in" to the system. At the time, mom didn't want to see her paycheck reduced to pay in to the system because state employees weren't paid all that well and she already had a few other things being deducted from her check. Dad opted into the SS system and a few years later, sweeping changes were made to state employee compensation to bring them up to a comparable level with private sector jobs. She only had the one opportunity to opt-in and she missed it. I never asked her if she would have made a different decision if she had the opportunity to do so. To this day, dad gets SS and a pension for his work with the state and railroad while mom only gets a pension.


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## TheMartianChick (May 26, 2009)

Liberty'sGirl said:


> PS Slight thread drift. How do y'all deal with tight budgets and tithing/giving to charity?


I'm not a church goer, so I don't tithe, but I've always been involved with charitable organizations. I'm not much for writing a check, but I will roll up my sleeves and put in sweat equity. I've written press releases, answered phones, typed letters, done yard work, done demolition work, manned a booth at fairs, crafted flower arrangements for events, cooked, cleaned and run penny drives, etc...

My involvement has taught me that while lots of organizations need cash, many need warm bodies to do the work. When I get too old to do the work, I'll go back to writing checks!


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## Ernie (Jul 22, 2007)

Liberty'sGirl said:


> PS Slight thread drift. How do y'all deal with tight budgets and tithing/giving to charity?


Well, we don't believe in percentage tithing. Jesus didn't tell us to give 10% to the church ... we were to give _all of ourselves _to God.

So in order to try and give something back, we give of ourselves. Time, food, companionship to the lonely, aid to the elderly ... those sorts of things.


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## thequeensblessing (Mar 30, 2003)

We tithe 10% right off the top. It is always the first thing to come out of our budget. We budget it in just like it was a bill.


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## bilmel250 (Dec 9, 2012)

I don't post often, but being from Mississippi this touched a nerve. Too many times in the grocery store I have noticed the buggy in front of me being filled with the best cuts of meat and name brand food stuffs while my buggy looks like an ad for great value... Never fails at the end of their transaction, out comes the EBT card. Last week the lady in question was still loading her Escalade when I came out a few moments later. Perhaps if there were limitations on the items being paid for through the snap program( junk food, soda, etc...) they could better prepare for a FULL month worth of food. As far as our elderly, Mississippi is also ranked number one in polls as the most charitable. In most instances, we take care of those in need in our families and communities. They provided for us for years, now it is our turn...


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## RebelDigger (Aug 5, 2010)

I live in Mississippi and don't personally know anyone who has a problem getting food. If they need food stamps they get them and if anyone is truly hard up and hungry, the churches take care of them. I have noticed though that Dh and I are among the last hold outs that still actually garden. When I was a kid, everyone had a garden and everyone's Moms canned the food. Now, that is a rare thing and many of our younger generation don't even know how to garden. My son's best friend started raising chickens (30ish year old) and I had to go over and show him how to butcher one out so he would know how. It seems very strange to me to drive down the road and see woods grown over where I remember fields and gardens having been when I was younger. Food stamps have not just made folks fat, they have made them lazy.


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## Becka03 (Mar 29, 2009)

we give a certain amount each week- with the mindset "you can't out give God"

The Methodists believe that it is the ONE actual thing God promises- that you will get back what you give with tithing-
We also do ALOT of volunteering for the Church and other orgs in town that are Christian.

I can tell you the months that I have been scared to give the full amount DH and I agree upon- and I give less- there always seems to be less in the checking account- when I give with out worrying- there always seems to be more at the end of the month that I think there should be


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## snowcap (Jul 1, 2011)

It's true if you have zero income you get $369 for 2 people in food stamps. When you start making some of your own money you food stamps get cut.
So basically if some one only gets $16 in fod stamps it is because they do have some income.
People do sell their food stamps. I guess by being extra skimpy on groceries. Which is sad if they have kids.


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## ldc (Oct 11, 2006)

One has to know it's possible to apply for SSI; in the 90's I had two aunts on SS. One got $299/month (had worked as a bilingal aide in a parochial school for years), the other $399. I tried to help them apply for SSI, but they were both too frightened...tho't they'd lose their SS entirely. 

One also refused to get SS from her reviled ex-husband, with whom she had 7 children (and had been married to for more than 10 yrs. - SS's requirment for claiming benefits from a former spouse), and had raised the children mostly single-handedly. She was a RN, living and working double shifts in rural Ohio in a nursing home. By 2001, this aunt was in a VA home in Calif (should've been receiving a VA pension also), and the VA got SSI and VA pension on her behalf. She had flown planes in WW2.

The first aunt mentioned who worked in a parochial school had not known that they didn't participate in social security.

I discovered after accepting a job here in LA, that state and parish workers are inelgible for SS, after working in the North for 22 yrs under SS. There are lots of wrinkles with all of this.


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## where I want to (Oct 28, 2008)

ldc said:


> One has to know it's possible to apply for SSI; in the 90's I had two aunts on SS. One got $299/month (had worked as a bilingal aide in a parochial school for years), the other $399. I tried to help them apply for SSI, but they were both too frightened...tho't they'd lose their SS entirely.
> 
> One also refused to get SS from her reviled ex-husband, with whom she had 7 children (and had been married to for more than 10 yrs. - SS's requirment for claiming benefits from a former spouse), and had raised the children mostly single-handedly. She was a RN, living and working double shifts in rural Ohio in a nursing home. By 2001, this aunt was in a VA home in Calif (should've been receiving a VA pension also), and the VA got SSI and VA pension on her behalf. She had flown planes in WW2.
> 
> ...


Religious exemptions change with the tide but there a few ones. Most people by far who work under non-covered employers participate in a pension plan. Some get a lot more than social security pays but parttimers were frequently exempt. 
And you have to be very careful in assuming that they just don't know. They may very well have personal reasons for not giving the whole story. 
That's what I meant in the post about really amazing stories. I'd have a very different perspective on life if I hadn't been so enthusiastic trying to get something for someone who was reluctant only to find when I pushed them hard enough, they had a good grasp of the issue but were embarassed it was not what others thought.


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## gweny (Feb 10, 2014)

Becka03 said:


> I find it disgusting that you would throw food in the trash that was edible- and I find it disturbing that you would admit that-
> I also think with that attitude you will be homeless eventually again- and maybe learn your lesson...
> 
> I have ZERO tolerance for someone throwing out food and taking advantage of other people and braggin about it-


1) I'm not bragging.

2) I was living on the street... Clearly I wasn't making great choices at the time.

But hey if you wanna judge me on some dumb stuff I did in my youth almost 2 decades ago while having absolutely no idea who I am today..... Well, Those are your 'great choices'.

Also, how was I taking advantage of other people? I did not force anyone to give me anything. I wasn't on any kind of government assistance. I did not steal or even intimidate. I just asked nicely. They gave me thier food/ money and in exchange they walked away feeling good about helping someone in need. It was a fair trade to all involved parties. They got to keep being sheeple and I got to live free.


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## Becka03 (Mar 29, 2009)

gweny said:


> 1) I'm not bragging.
> 
> 2) I was living on the street... Clearly I wasn't making great choices at the time.
> 
> But hey if you wanna judge me on some dumb stuff I did in my youth almost 2 decades ago while having absolutely no idea who I am today..... Well, Those are your 'great choices'.



I was judging the post you made- the fact that you pretty much bragged that you threw out the food you didn't think was cooked to your satisfaction- which is exactly what you did in that post


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## gweny (Feb 10, 2014)

Becka03 said:


> I was judging the post you made- the fact that you pretty much bragged that you threw out the food you didn't think was cooked to your satisfaction- which is exactly what you did in that post


I did not brag. I simply explained my POV as it related to the topic. Food is so readily available in this country that even homeless people are throwing it away. That is my personal experience.


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## lindamarie (Jul 9, 2013)

you just said that they felt good about helping someone in need. 

In the original post you said that 9 out 10 times you took that persons help and threw it in the trash because it wasn't cooked to your liking.


this might be another thread that needs to be in general chat or current events. 

although, from a survival side, when really hungry even a vegetarian will end up eating a steak and a meat eater will end up eating burdock roots,


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## Ernie (Jul 22, 2007)

lindamarie said:


> although, from a survival side, when really hungry even a vegetarian will end up eating a steak and a meat eater will end up eating burdock roots,


I will have to be hungry indeed before I ever dig up another burdock root. 

They are delicious and tasty, but after going through the effort, I think there is a net calorie LOSS when you're finished!


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## lindamarie (Jul 9, 2013)

Ernie said:


> I will have to be hungry indeed before I ever dig up another burdock root.
> 
> They are delicious and tasty, but after going through the effort, I think there is a net calorie LOSS when you're finished!


my hubby refers to them as great if you want to loss weight. Like you, he feels that its a workout just to get them out of the ground. He would rather split wood than dig burdock


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## gweny (Feb 10, 2014)

lindamarie said:


> you just said that they felt good about helping someone in need.
> 
> In the original post you said that 9 out 10 times you took that persons help and threw it in the trash because it wasn't cooked to your liking.
> 
> ...


Yes that is what I said. I didn't throw it out in front of them. They were long gone with thier warm fuzzies still intact. 
Truth is in a squater community different people have different tasks. Fat people don't make good beggars. Most food I didn't want went to 'Chunk' (the guy watching our stuff) 'Mutt' (lots of face tattoos aren't good for spare changing either but he was intimidating/ our muscle) or 'Boy' (the dog). 
Most money made was used to purchase alcohol. Specifically boxed wine. We called them 'space bags'. They had many uses. After we drank the wine we could blow the bag up with air for a pillow, fill with water and Hang for a solar shower, cover the box with the bag for a solar oven, etc.


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## davel745 (Feb 2, 2009)

WV Hillbilly said:


> I'd like to know where they get those numbers from . I've lived in WV most of my life & can honestly say I've never known of anyone who didn't have enough to eat .
> Hunting & fishing are big statewide & there is plenty of game & fish & a lot of people do garden . I have no idea where all these hungry people are or if they really do exist why .
> There's not much in the way of big cities in WV but I guess that must be where those people are . I also find it ironic that the two fattest states are also the two hungriest .


While I respect your comments WV Hillbilly. In my church there a bunch of family's who have taken in children who are from very poor families. why they cant take care of there children is mostly based on drugs, meth is very big here. my friends wife is a principal at a local school and she says it is heart wrenching to see some of the kids at the school. My friend has taken in tow children them selves and the kids are really messed up. They have a real big job taking care of them. WV's politician's have raped the state of its natural resources and very few people are getting any money. Most of the oil field money is going out of state and even out of country. The oil boom which I did support is so corrupt that the epa turns its head when they pollute the local area. And hammer poor people who lands are being damaged by big oil. Our government is corrupt from the top to the bottom.


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## where I want to (Oct 28, 2008)

gweny said:


> Yes that is what I said. I didn't throw it out in front of them. They were long gone with thier warm fuzzies still intact.
> Truth is in a squater community different people have different tasks. Fat people don't make good beggars. Most food I didn't want went to 'Chunk' (the guy watching our stuff) 'Mutt' (lots of face tattoos aren't good for spare changing either but he was intimidating/ our muscle) or 'Boy' (the dog).
> Most money made was used to purchase alcohol. Specifically boxed wine. We called them 'space bags'. They had many uses. After we drank the wine we could blow the bag up with air for a pillow, fill with water and Hang for a solar shower, cover the box with the bag for a solar oven, etc.


That sounds like a novel. Another world than I've ever seen.


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## gweny (Feb 10, 2014)

where I want to said:


> That sounds like a novel. Another world than I've ever seen.


Lol! Perhaps I should write about it?!


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## willbuck1 (Apr 4, 2010)

Close to half the population of WV lives in the five biggest cities and counties. In my experience probably 1/3 of the households have incomes less than $20000 a year and are living in rental properties with no permission to garden. Income levels are such that unless they inherit property these people will never be able to afford to purchase land and be able to garden it. 
Of the people I know with property less than 20% do anything with it except look at it.
The state has one of the highest rates of meth and prescription abuse and the money for those drugs tends to come out of the food budget either cash or selling ebt benefits.
WV is one of the few states with a declining population rate and so has a fairly high percentage of elderly who can have problems making ends meet.
The current administration's war on coal and coal fired power plants has cut down on a lot of the cash flowing into some of the poorest regions and will only worsen.
The shale oil boom will bring a lot of money into the state but mostly in the northern and central parts not the southern parts that are the poorest parts of the state. This will also make it even harder for people to be able to purchase land in those parts of WV.
When I was young everybody who owned any land in my part of WV had a garden and grew at least some of their meat. Now almost none do. I don't see that trend changing much until absolute desperation sets in and then it will probably be too late.


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## where I want to (Oct 28, 2008)

gweny said:


> Lol! Perhaps I should write about it?!


Yep- a view from reality without political agenda would be actually useful.


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## whiterock (Mar 26, 2003)

willbuck1, thanks for the reminder. I guess since I retired and spend most of my time here on the place alone, I have conveintly forgotton some of the facts of modern life. Ten years ago I could have seen the drug problem, income problem, rental/housing, etc that you pointed out. I dealt with it. I guess a selective memory is a good thing at times.
ED


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## Freya (Dec 3, 2005)

Good thread. Not sure what I can add to it, everyone has pretty much already said it. :shrug:


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## Freya (Dec 3, 2005)

Ernie said:


> I gotta say ... since we left the world, dumpster diving has pulled us out of more than one tough food spot.
> 
> Kind of hurts my pride a little to admit that, but there you have it. Maybe it'll help somebody.
> 
> Convenience stores and grocery stores throw away enough food most days to fill up some bellies in a hungry (and not too picky) household.



There was a year in my childhood that dumpster diving was the ONLY food I got. Yes it's embarrassing but you do what you gotta do. Besides now days it's "cool" to be a "Freegan". :thumb:


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## Freya (Dec 3, 2005)

gweny said:


> Lol! Perhaps I should write about it?!





where I want to said:


> Yep- a view from reality without political agenda would be actually useful.





Becka03 said:


> I find it disgusting that you would throw food in the trash that was edible- and I find it disturbing that you would admit that-
> I also think with that attitude you will be homeless eventually again- and maybe learn your lesson...
> 
> I have ZERO tolerance for someone throwing out food and taking advantage of other people and braggin about it-




Being ACTUALLY homeless completely changes the "rules". It's a different reality where some common sense/morals/plans go right out the window. Some choose it, some fall into and some get dragged into it no choice (like kids). 

In the end it does not matter. Survival of the most desperate slides into apathy quite easily and things deemed "normal/moral/common sense" slide away.

When everything sucks, choices get made in the moment that make that moment just the tiniest of a fraction easier to deal with. Good or bad. No one unless they have been there will ever truly get it.


*I don't think "bragging" was the intent, I think they were just giving an example from their POV of how even in the darkest time food was "easy". They didn't claim to have kids that they starved or passed up. It was a simple short paragraph without the full story.*


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## Junkman (Dec 17, 2005)

lindamarie said:


> a friend of mine gets stamps, $16.00 also. She's diabetic, has goats for milk, chickens, raised a hog and a steer. Her daughter gets $798.00 in stamps. When the chickens are laying and the pork is in the freezer they visit her often. Her daughter is usually out of food and out of stamps 2 1/2-3 weeks after she gets them.


We went to Clarksburg today and saw 6 or 7 businesses posting for HELP.
I know pay is low and takes a lot to make ends meet. You have to drive to work and maybe only a couple days a week. Thankfully, times were different when we were young. I don't know what the answer is but we have many food banks in our area and Back Packs for students on Friday so they will have food over the weekend. I don't understand that because if children are going hungry from Fri to Mon, somebody at home isn't doing their job. Only 3 on our road grow a garden! Many get food a food card.
What would you folks suggest? Jklady:shrug:


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## mpillow (Jan 24, 2003)

I dont understand why EBT users cant make it either....most of the younger ones with kids have redunancy on programs....WIC plus stamps fthru pregnancy then 0-5yo plus Headstart breakfast and lunch ages 3-4....then at school free/reduced for breakfast and lunch plus backpacks for the weekend.....and the Food Pantries


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## lindamarie (Jul 9, 2013)

mpillow said:


> I dont understand why EBT users cant make it either....most of the younger ones with kids have redunancy on programs....WIC plus stamps fthru pregnancy then 0-5yo plus Headstart breakfast and lunch ages 3-4....then at school free/reduced for breakfast and lunch plus backpacks for the weekend.....and the Food Pantries


I don't know if its that they can't make it or don't want too. A lot of the younger people don't want to take the effort or don't know how to cook from scratch. Its easier to just grab junk food or microwave meals. Those items are lots more pricey. Plus you gotta wonder how many of them are actually using every ebt dollar they get for food and how many are trading or selling for drugs, etc. 

where I live in west Virginia, there are very few jobs. The bigger towns in either direction are approximately 50 miles away. A lot of the folks here in this area don't drive, so even if there were jobs available in the other towns they have no way to get there.

as far as growing a garden, that requires a lot of work. Not all, but a lot of people don't want to put forth any effort. They don't want to work. If its to much trouble to make a pot of scratch tomato sauce do you really think they want to even think about growing a tomato plant?

its easier to sit back and wait for benefits to be loaded to a card and buy a jar of ragu and heat in the microwave. I really wonder what happened to the work ethic in this country. 

I probably sound bitter. I apologize.


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## texican (Oct 4, 2003)

Ernie said:


> I gotta say ... since we left the world, dumpster diving has pulled us out of more than one tough food spot.
> 
> Kind of hurts my pride a little to admit that, but there you have it. Maybe it'll help somebody.
> 
> Convenience stores and grocery stores throw away enough food most days to fill up some bellies in a hungry (and not too picky) household.


It's amazing, that quite a few grocery stores, if you talk very very nicely, will actually give you their 'waste' and you don't have to dive for it.... we get several hundred pounds of meat, several times a week... on the 'list' for when the guy getting produce get's lazy and stop collecting... have the 'dairy' concession... last week, got a couple dozen gallons of milk, same of buttermilk, couple cases of cheese....


Ernie said:


> Hunting is big business out here, which is why the state controls it so rigidly.
> 
> Almost everyone I know hunts, but they all share a dim view of the "poacher", who is basically anyone who shoots a deer outside of the narrow timeline that the state sets aside for it, whether it's on their own property or not.
> 
> ...


Trouble is, most poachers are just too lazy to do it the legal way... their families 'might' be hungry.... but it's because the parents smoke or drink away the food money... Have no problem with someone killing a deer on their own place... if they have a high fence, and aren't baiting...

We had a notorious poacher lived down the road, just a mile... he sold the deer carcasses to poor folks... everyone knew, and turned a blind eye. One night, there was a loud bang down in the pasture... we rushed out, and it was "Vernon" running back to his truck... he'd killed our registered bull... needless to say, Vernon was read the riot act, and had to pay for the bull....


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## texican (Oct 4, 2003)

If they'd polled me this afternoon, I'm sure I'd be included on the 'hungry list'.... as I'd worked up a powerful appetite (and missed my aft. snackie) and was indeed hungry... and insecure in what I was going to fix, later on.

Luckily, after a trip to the butcher, the free t-bones hit the spot!


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## Wanda (Dec 19, 2002)

The sad thing is, the '''generation'' complaining about these folks buying and cooking habits, are the same ones that raised them. Where do we split or share the responsibility for the problem?


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## lindamarie (Jul 9, 2013)

Wanda said:


> The sad thing is, the '''generation'' complaining about these folks buying and cooking habits, are the same ones that raised them. Where do we split or share the responsibility for the problem?


our kids were actually raised learning how to cook, sew, raise animals, grow a garden, check the oil in their vehicles, change a tire, do dishes and laundry, etc. They also had home cooked meals. We never had a microwave.

as a parent you do what you can to raise them right and teach them well so that they can be honest, hard working, thinking and hopefully self sufficient. What those same kids who did the dishes and gathered eggs as a child, do as adults when out in the world on their own, is not always the same.

don't be so quick to point the finger at the parents. The kid who grew up eating cold spaghetti o's , may turn out to be the best from scratch cook for his or her family. The kid who learned how to cook and had homemade meals, may very well be the one feeding his or her family canned spaghetti.

I grew up in new York. Back then there wasn't even community gardens. When at my grandparents I absorbed all I could. My parents didn't garden, sew, raise animals, etc. How I live now is no where near how I was raised.


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## Wanda (Dec 19, 2002)

We all are happy to point fingers at whole generations of people we think have an ''entitlement mentality''. Did that all happen because they figured out that you could sell Diet soft-drinks? Why do we as a whole think the world has gone downhill since we became adults, but we had nothing at all to do with it?:shrug:


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## mpillow (Jan 24, 2003)

Wanda said:


> We all are happy to point fingers at whole generations of people we think have an ''entitlement mentality''. Did that all happen because they figured out that you could sell Diet soft-drinks? Why do we as a whole think the world has gone downhill since we became adults, but we had nothing at all to do with it?:shrug:


Maybe voter fraud? Maybe certain elected officials are comfortable buying their next vote with some sort of welfare....its easier to take the money and be short sighted....its too much work and guilt to see the _*REAL*_ effects of "free" money.


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## lindamarie (Jul 9, 2013)

go back a few generations and there was a work ethic instilled in people, along with honor, trust, and a feeling of good. Yes, there were bread lines, and work camps, and hard times. But most people wanted to pull themselves up. 

society as a whole has done a complete turn around. Most kids don't want to do any chores at home. If you ground them or take away their phone, laptop, Xbox or whatever they scream abuse. Try disciplining your kid today and you have cps at your door. 

In my opinion, yes, I think that there are a lot of lazy people who feel its much easier to take than to try and do. People feel they are entitled, it doesn't matter what it is....food, money, cars, etc. Some will never be happy no matter what. A safety net should be there to help. Unless you are physically or mentally disabled you really need to take the training wheels off your bike and learn to ride.


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## willow_girl (Dec 7, 2002)

> Chickens aren't allowed in town. Not even a handful of laying hens-period! There's a huge feral cat problem, but hens are a health threat (sheesh!) I guess we could make Kababs from the cats and pretend it's chicken


Somewhere I recall reading that in Italy, cats are (or were) euphemistically referred to as "roof rabbit." :huh:


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## Freya (Dec 3, 2005)

willow_girl said:


> Somewhere I recall reading that in Italy, cats are (or were) euphemistically referred to as "roof rabbit." :huh:


Well that will stick with me now, right up there with long pork. ound:


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## Freya (Dec 3, 2005)

texican said:


> It's amazing, that quite a few grocery stores, if you talk very very nicely, will actually give you their 'waste' and you don't have to dive for it.... we get several hundred pounds of meat, several times a week... on the 'list' for when the guy getting produce get's lazy and stop collecting... have the 'dairy' concession... last week, got a couple dozen gallons of milk, same of buttermilk, couple cases of cheese.....



This lady (no it's not me) has a section of her blog on this (reclaiming food "waste"): http://www.onehundreddollarsamonth.com/category/weekly-shopping-trips/reclaimed-food/ That link goes right to the section that she talks about it. You can scroll all the way back to the beginning to see how she talked her local grocer into giving her the "chicken scraps". She then posts weekly pictures of what she got and how much of it she saved for her family and how much went to the chickens. :thumb: 


She also shows how she lives (NOT rural), backyard gardens/chickens, barters often, gets free food, coupons and tried to keep her food $$$ to under a $100 a month. LOTS AND LOTS of pictures and explanations. And she keeps running totals/tally that she posts and explains what she bought/got free.  Link to who she is: http://www.onehundreddollarsamonth.com/who-is-mavis/


*I know this will not work everywhere, but maybe it will help someone reading this thread. What do you have to lose?

 *


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