# Another sicko real estate practice!



## sisterpine (May 9, 2004)

I must be a "sicko" magnet these days. Found another house, not an auction house. Placed an offer and received a counter offer. Agreed to the counter offer and sent in the paperwork. While I had throughly scanned the offer for things I needed to do and time frames etc I did not read everything the seller could do. 

Turns out that even though I have accepted their counter offer they can continue to seek offers from others until they sign the papers on their end. Papers went in Monday afternoon and here it is Wednesday morning. hmmmm wonder what they are doing? Apparently there is no time frame for them to sign the offer agreement on their side so they can play around just as long as they like.

To make matters worse I investigated the company owning the note and found out they are not a very reputable company "Nationstar Mortgage". On a good note I would not be financing with them any way and in the near future hope to switch to a VA loan which might fare better. 

At some near by point I may have to tell them to eat it which is sad because I really like this little house. The market in Tucson sucks because all the inexpensive or distressed houses are being bought up by investors who just leave them sit vacant or turn them into rentals in this allready rental flooded market. I know I am just venting so please forgive the rant. I just cannot believe the disrespectful way businesses treat customers these days.


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## 54metalman (Jul 12, 2011)

What ever happened to the good old boy hand shake and your word was gold! Times sure have gone down hill. I will keep my fingers crossed for you that it all works out.


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## lmnde (Sep 25, 2006)

Take a deep breath and be patient. I have got to ask though - why in the world would you not read the small print - this is a big purchase and so much can go wrong with a home purchase to cost you and haunt you for years to come...

On the bright side - if you did not put any limitations as in a date to how soon they have to respond, or as to when your accepted counter offer expires, it is my understanding that you can rescind your counter offer as long as it hasn't been accepted. {Be sure to double check as this may be different in your state, and it has been a good long while since I held a RE license}. Did you submit an earnest money deposit with your offer?


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## Bluesgal (Jun 17, 2011)

lmnde said:


> Take a deep breath and be patient. I have got to ask though - why in the world would you not read the small print - this is a big purchase and so much can go wrong with a home purchase to cost you and haunt you for years to come...
> 
> On the bright side - if you did not put any limitations as in a date to how soon they have to respond, or as to when your accepted counter offer expires, it is my understanding that you can rescind your counter offer as long as it hasn't been accepted. {Be sure to double check as this may be different in your state, and it has been a good long while since I held a RE license}. Did you submit an earnest money deposit with your offer?


IMDE - you are correct, in the State of AZ, unless and until the offer is accepted by the other party, the offer can be rescinded but it must be done in writing (it can be faxed but mail the original).

Also, the lesson is, next time put an "expiration date" on the offer. You have the right to extend that time if you choose to.

The purchase contract in the State of AZ is "form" document. Get to know it now and you can avoid these issues in the future.

That having been said, is your agent following up with the seller? Do they have any insight into the situation? Was your offer below market value thereby causing the seller to see if they can get any other action on the property or requiring internal approvals?

Unlike a personal owner, the representative for the seller may not be authorized to accept or decline and they may need to get approval from another party before accepting/declining any offers. I know, you'd htink they would have the parameters set before they started but, these are just some of the reasons the response may be taking some time.

Hang in there. Everything happens for a reason and what is meant to be will happen.


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## sisterpine (May 9, 2004)

Let me try again, I did really read the whole thing but the whole thing did not sink in until I re read it several more times after submitting the offer. The biggest problem seems to be the bank holding the foreclosed mortgage, a place called Nationstar Mortgage. They are not located in this state and seem to be playing by some of their own rules. This is the first counter offer I have ever seen and my real estate agent only had a couple of minutes to scan it before it needed to come to me due to a time crunch per the forms.

I am willing to buy the house if they accept my offer. I just don't know how long I can wait for their decision without causing myself other problems locating a home to buy in the time frame I have.

I will be hearing from my real estate agent this afternoon (after he attends a funeral) and hopefully we can go over the form together and decide what to do. I believe what I should (gotta love hindsight) is counter their counter with my own acceptable terms and the same money and closing date they had. I surely would not charge myself 100 per day for late closing if it is their banks problem!


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## oregon woodsmok (Dec 19, 2010)

It is practically the industry standard to accept back-up offers on any house sold. That does not mean they can kick you out if they have a higher offer. It means that if you can not perform, then the back-up buyer can step into place and buy.

Pay attention to your deadlines, do what you are contracted to do when you are supposed to do it, and you will be fine.


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## detectiveeight (Sep 12, 2011)

Sisterpine,

Why dont you go to the bank, and secure the financing. If buy from a seller that is financing, you will have to play by thier rules (or whatever is legal in your state). Even if they are a lender as well as a seller they WILL have a cash price that they will take that is lower than thier asking price. Believe me they would rather have the 1 bird in the hand as opposed to the 2 in the bush when financing.

Just remember if you are buying from someone that is going to finance that you do not have a penalty for early payoff. I know of a guy I sold a house to a few years ago that wanted to sell his old house, but he a 15k penalty for paying it off before the first 120 months of a 240 month note. He ended up losing his equity and just breaking even when he sold the house, to pay the penalty. This is legal in TX, but few will do that to someone. Always read and research the law, but remember that the one with the money, or the real estate you want financed makes the rules. I know that this sounds mean, but it is very true.

If you secure the financing before you shop, you make the rules (kind of) and the ball is in your court.


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## Harry Chickpea (Dec 19, 2008)

"I know of a guy I sold a house to a few years ago that wanted to sell his old house, but he a 15k penalty for paying it off before the first 120 months of a 240 month note. "

Pretty much legal wherever it is written into the contract. That was a bit extreme, but when I sold my house the last time and held the paper, I wrote in a prepayment penalty if it was paid off within a couple of years. There are tax considerations, and a person taking advantage of owner finance needs to understand that the risks the owner takes come at a price.


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## detectiveeight (Sep 12, 2011)

Harry Chickpea said:


> Pretty much legal wherever it is written into the contract. That was a bit extreme, but when I sold my house the last time and held the paper, I wrote in a prepayment penalty if it was paid off within a couple of years. There are tax considerations, and a person taking advantage of owner finance needs to understand that the risks the owner takes come at a price.


 That is VERY true and well said! I have held the note several times on 5 different houses (over the past 20 years) and I always ended up getting the house back. Nothing worse than paying taxes on a vacant house.:smack

I have always tried to do what I though was the right thing with people that were young or just married with no or poor credit. I even financed as low as 7%. There is a reason banks require credit, that is why they suceed, and I have failed at financing!! There is usually a VERY good reason why someone has bad credit. Its because they DONT pay thier bills!! Of course there are also people that have fallen victim to this economy, or lack of it, and cant pay thier bills.


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## ChristieAcres (Apr 11, 2009)

sisterpine said:


> I must be a "sicko" magnet these days. Found another house, not an auction house. Placed an offer and received a *counter offer*. Agreed to the counter offer and sent in the paperwork. While I had throughly scanned the offer for things I needed to do and time frames etc *I did not read everything the seller could do.*
> 
> *Your Agent didn't go over the terms with you before you signed it? :grumble:*
> 
> ...


*
When I am representing my Buyers, I read the whole contract, every offer term, and go over it with them BEFORE they sign anything (I realized your Agent was pressed for time, but it doesn't take long to look for the important terms). Didn't your Agent read the Counter, before you signed it? That form is usually just a page or two, but there are typically changes to the original Purchase and Sale Agreement terms, including Addendums. I always recommend a tight deadline to review/deny counters. The date is right on the Contract, so they "can't string anything out..." If you agreed to every term on the Counter, and there were no changes to the Purchase and Sale Agreement, then you should have a signed around Contract. A Rescission is done when an Offer is made, before the Offer is accepted. A Rescission can also be done if you received a Counter, signed it, and there required another signature or approval (which would make it an incomplete Purchase and Sale Agreement, so an incomplete contract). If you already signed the terms of their Counter Offer, you have agreed to their terms, already*.



> I will be hearing from my real estate agent this afternoon (after he attends a funeral) and hopefully we can go over the form together and decide what to do. I believe what *I should (gotta love hindsight) is counter their counter *with my own acceptable terms and the same money and closing date they had. *I surely would not charge myself 100 per day for late closing if it is their banks problem! *


The first Counter submitted is the only one they have to accept, unfortunately. $100 per day is another term they like to include, but not one you have to agree to at all. Did you pay Earnest Money down, when you made this offer? If you really want this home, I hope it all gets worked out. I am a Managing Broker in WA.


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## rickfrosty (Jun 19, 2008)

sisterpine said:


> I must be a "sicko" magnet these days. Found another house, not an auction house. Placed an offer and received a counter offer. Agreed to the counter offer and sent in the paperwork. While I had throughly scanned the offer for things I needed to do and time frames etc I did not read everything the seller could do.
> 
> Turns out that even though I have accepted their counter offer they can continue to seek offers from others until they sign the papers on their end. Papers went in Monday afternoon and here it is Wednesday morning. hmmmm wonder what they are doing? Apparently there is no time frame for them to sign the offer agreement on their side so they can play around just as long as they like.
> 
> ...


There should be a 'time window' for offer, counter offer & aceptance, no ?
If it were a Nat. Assoc. Realtors form there would be.


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## Bluesgal (Jun 17, 2011)

sisterpine said:


> Let me try again, I did really read the whole thing but the whole thing did not sink in until I re read it several more times after submitting the offer. The biggest problem seems to be the bank holding the foreclosed mortgage, a place called Nationstar Mortgage. They are not located in this state and seem to be playing by some of their own rules. This is the first counter offer I have ever seen and my real estate agent only had a couple of minutes to scan it before it needed to come to me due to a time crunch per the forms.
> 
> I am willing to buy the house if they accept my offer. I just don't know how long I can wait for their decision without causing myself other problems locating a home to buy in the time frame I have.
> 
> I will be hearing from my real estate agent this afternoon (after he attends a funeral) and hopefully we can go over the form together and decide what to do. I believe what I should (gotta love hindsight) is counter their counter with my own acceptable terms and the same money and closing date they had. I surely would not charge myself 100 per day for late closing if it is their banks problem!


that is standard language that the banks always try to put in and I always take it out.. even if they want to charge the fee and it's not their fault.


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## Heritagefarm (Feb 21, 2010)

54metalman said:


> What ever happened to the good old boy hand shake and your word was gold! Times sure have gone down hill. I will keep my fingers crossed for you that it all works out.


Those times never existed, that is what.


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## edcopp (Oct 9, 2004)

sisterpine said:


> I must be a "sicko" magnet these days. Found another house, not an auction house. Placed an offer and received a counter offer. Agreed to the counter offer and sent in the paperwork. While I had throughly scanned the offer for things I needed to do and time frames etc I did not read everything the seller could do.
> 
> Turns out that even though I have accepted their counter offer they can continue to seek offers from others until they sign the papers on their end. Papers went in Monday afternoon and here it is Wednesday morning. hmmmm wonder what they are doing? Apparently there is no time frame for them to sign the offer agreement on their side so they can play around just as long as they like.
> 
> ...


Thorughly scanning but not reading everything is , shall we say uncool.

The practice that you describe is as old as the real estate business itself. Not at all uncommon.


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