# Atheist's help not wanted at soup kitchen



## unregistered5595 (Mar 3, 2003)

A soup kitchen won't let atheists help. What a sad commentary in today's world.
http://www.mediaite.com/online/soup-kitchen-invites-everyone-to-volunteer-unless-youre-an-atheist/


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## NickieL (Jun 15, 2007)

Very sad indeed. Atheists I know are some of the most giving people. 


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## Grumpy old man (Aug 6, 2013)

Why would anyone's religion have anything to do with feeding the hungry ?


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## Ardie/WI (May 10, 2002)

Stupid, stupid, stupid!

Make me hesitant to tell ppl I'm a Christian.


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## chickenista (Mar 24, 2007)

And that atheist group has raised money for, collected food and clothing etc.. for other groups in the area.
It is only that one soup kitchen that is being difficult.
But Spartanburg is a really weird place anyway..


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## plowjockey (Aug 18, 2008)

It seems more and more, that religion - all religion, is becoming the _exact opposite_, of what it professes to be.

Love thy neighbor - unless.........


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## Grumpy old man (Aug 6, 2013)

Religion is a business everywhere and here in Tn there is a church on every back country rd and many more in town many have less than 100 members yet support a pastor and deacons ,and mission trips to the far east and africa spending thousands of dollars on trips out of the country while children are starving shoeless and basically homeless less than a mile from the church . its very sad but true !


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## fransean (Dec 21, 2002)

Was that link the entire story? There wasn't much information there to form a complete picture. Something had to have led up to everyone being so upset.

My parents ran a soup kitchen at their church for 20 years and I know that Mom would tell any new volunteers or attendees that they always pray before the meal and that they were free to join in or not but that they had to respect the prayer and not disrupt it. Simple.


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## DEKE01 (Jul 17, 2013)

Wow, there's a whole lot of jumping to conclusions here. There may be a lot to this story that we don't know. The soup kitchen seemingly has a Christian mission and an Atheist group wants to come in. I suspect the atheists of having an alternative agenda. 

The soup kitchen nearest me is run by a church to not only help people, but also recruit people to their church. Nothing wrong with that. If they recruit too heavy handed, all but the most hungry will avoid them. Should they let an atheist group in to do their own recruiting, no way. 

OTOH, maybe the woman running this kitchen in the article is a nut case. I have no problem with that because that particular kitchen gets no donations from me. I try not to get too upset about private organizations doing their own thing unless it is trampling on the rights of others or if they are taking gov't funds. If they are jerks or do a bad job, their donations will dry up and the group will end. If they serve their community well, there is a good chance they will prosper. 

If this was a gov't run group, my thoughts would be 100% different.


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## Harry Chickpea (Dec 19, 2008)

Perhaps if all the atheists showed up for free soup???

I can see the soup Nazi -
"Atheist? No soup for you! Next!"

I agree that area of the country can be pretty strange. I lived in Charlotte for a while, was happy to move out.

Deke, I agree that it is a private group and can do what it wants. That doesn't make the attitude less strange.


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## unregistered5595 (Mar 3, 2003)

In my utopian world (that doesn't exist).
This would not have been a problem, it would be an opportunity.
The opportunity would be for Christians to show their Christian values and the opportunity for Atheists to show their humanitarian values. There would be a 'nice-off' for both to show tolerance, kindness, and respect towards everyone, a contest of niceness. In this way, each person could, may, decide to continue on their path or consider another while sharing soup together. 

Instead, the atheists were told to go away, they donated care boxes across the street, and in a spin, which would be considered spiteful. It's ridiculous.

I'm not an atheist, but why are the atheists being treated like they did something wrong when they were trying to help? It's not because all Christians hate all atheists. Evangelical Christians would lose purpose in life if there were no agnostics or atheists. (generally speaking)


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## unregistered41671 (Dec 29, 2009)

How sad.


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## DEKE01 (Jul 17, 2013)

Harry Chickpea said:


> Deke, I agree that it is a private group and can do what it wants. That doesn't make the attitude less strange.


OK, let's say you are putting on a fund raising activity for your local favored politician. You really believe in this guy/gal and think they can make real progress in those areas you think are most important. 

And then the other party says, hey, why don't you let us come to your fundraiser and we'll serve the dinner for you. You going to invite them in?

Before anyone tells me it is not a perfect analogy, I agree, because Christians have a duty to invite in the unsaved and hope to be a positive force. If the kitchen lady was enforcing a no atheists interrogation to make sure no single atheist could get thru the door, I would agree, very strange. Similarly, I would happily invite any gun hater to a pro 2A rally in the hopes that I could show them that 2A lovers aren't nut jobs. But I wouldn't let Bloomberg's Mayors Against Illegal Guns help run the pro 2A rally.


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## ann in tn (Nov 25, 2007)

That is odd. I do wonder if there is more to the story than the little bit being told. I would look on it as an opportunity to show my Christian values to others. Unfortunately in todays society it also makes me wonder if the atheists had an agenda. That group volunteering at a Christian mission seems a bit odd to me.


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## Brighton (Apr 14, 2013)

ann in tn said:


> Unfortunately in todays society it also makes me wonder if the atheists had an agenda. That group volunteering at a Christian mission seems a bit odd to me.


Why does that seem odd to you, I am an Atheist, but I still volunteer at the Church my family goes to, Wednesday night dinners (no charge and EVERYONE in the community is invited regardless of faith or lack there of) I am welcomed with open arms, but they don't try to convert me! I have also worked with several of the youth missions and clothes drives for a mission down south.


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## DEKE01 (Jul 17, 2013)

Brighton said:


> Why does that seem odd to you, I am an Atheist, but I still volunteer at the Church my family goes to, Wednesday night dinners (no charge and EVERYONE in the community is invited regardless of faith or lack there of) I am welcomed with open arms, but they don't try to convert me! I have also worked with several of the youth missions and clothes drives for a mission down south.


A single person is one thing. How many from the atheist group were coming and what do we know of this group? The only atheist groups I am familiar with are fairly activist, and I acknowledge the reason I'm familiar with them is because of their activism.


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## Pony (Jan 6, 2003)

That story is pretty biased. From what I've seen, the atheists were insisting that they wear their Upstate Atheists t-shirts when they worked at the kitchen, and I'm sure there's a lot more back-story than what is on the site posted.

In fact, the whole site (haven't looked much past the "front page") seems like it leans a lot to the left.


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## unregistered5595 (Mar 3, 2003)

Pony said:


> That story is pretty biased. From what I've seen, the atheists were insisting that they wear their Upstate Atheists t-shirts when they worked at the kitchen, and I'm sure there's a lot more back-story than what is on the site posted.
> 
> In fact, the whole site (haven't looked much past the "front page") seems like it leans a lot to the left.


Pony, where are you getting this from? "insisting that they wear their Upstate Atheist t-shirts when they worked in the kitchen" Or are you making this up?


> âI told [the Spartanburg Soup Kitchen] we wouldnât wear our T-shirts. We wouldnât tell anyone who we are with. We just want to help out,â Upstate Atheist president Eve Brannon told the _Spartanburg Herald-Jounal_. âAnd they told us that we were not allowed.â


http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2013/10/...tchen-refuses-to-allow-atheists-to-volunteer/

Why so much hatred of atheists? And why?


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## DEKE01 (Jul 17, 2013)

Interesting - the Upstate Atheists meetup invitation says that it is open to only atheists, agnostics, and humanists. I guess they don't want Christians associating with them.


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## vicker (Jul 11, 2003)

Here is the soup kitchen's home page, they have a mission statement.
http://www.helpthekitchen.org/Our_Mission.html


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## vicker (Jul 11, 2003)

You can see more discussion on their FB page here...
https://www.facebook.com/pages/The-Spartanburg-Soup-Kitchen/152860864186?hc_location=stream


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## Pony (Jan 6, 2003)

Feather In The Breeze said:


> Pony, where are you getting this from? "insisting that they wear their Upstate Atheist t-shirts when they worked in the kitchen" Or are you making this up?
> 
> http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2013/10/...tchen-refuses-to-allow-atheists-to-volunteer/
> 
> Why so much hatred of atheists? And why?


No, I did not make it up, I read it on another site.

Why are you saying that people hate atheists? Srsly, I don't see that anywhere. 

Hatred is a strong word. If you see someone displaying it, then ask, but to accuse people of it when that's not happening... I don't get it.


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## unregistered5595 (Mar 3, 2003)

Pony said:


> No, I did not make it up, I read it on another site.
> 
> Why are you saying that people hate atheists? Srsly, I don't see that anywhere.
> 
> Hatred is a strong word. If you see someone displaying it, then ask, but to accuse people of it when that's not happening... I don't get it.


Okay what site?
I see someone displaying hatred toward atheists, you. Hatred is a strong word, I'm sure you get it. Why?

The whole article is about Christians throwing out atheists. It is hatred by supposedly Christians toward atheists.

~Feather


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## ann in tn (Nov 25, 2007)

Sorry Brighton, guess it is the area I happen to live in. So many people are doing things for their own agenda that it makes you wonder about everyone's motives. 

Unfortunately the worst people are the ones that make the news around here - you do not hear much about the good.

I personally see nothing wrong with anyone volunteering as long as you know the rules of whatever place your volunteering for and agree to abide by them.

I do not ask the people I am volunteering with what their religion or beliefs are - I just want to know that they are there to work and get the job (whatever it may be) done.


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## Brighton (Apr 14, 2013)

DEKE01 said:


> A single person is one thing. How many from the atheist group were coming and what do we know of this group? The only atheist groups I am familiar with are fairly activist, and I acknowledge the reason I'm familiar with them is because of their activism.


Well of course I don't go to help wearing a "I don't believe in God" Tee-Shirt, but the fact that I am welcomed with open arms and minds, not only by the entire congregation but also by the long term Pastor at our United Methodist Church, to not only serve meals but guide youth, well I think that speaks volumes for a town as small as mine! And could be a guide and lesson to others who turn down help just because someone doesn't believe in God, it doesn't mean we don't believe in helping our fellow man...some Christians should take note of that lesson!


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## Pearl B (Sep 27, 2008)

Grumpy old man said:


> Religion is a business everywhere and here in Tn there is a church on every back country rd and many more in town many have less than 100 members yet support a pastor and deacons ,and mission trips to the far east and africa spending thousands of dollars on trips out of the country while children are starving shoeless and basically homeless less than a mile from the church . its very sad but true !


That's why I wont go to my local church. This area has some real poor people & unless you cough up a tithe he will run you off. Seams the seats are reserved for paying people.

I get they have bills to pay & salarys. This church likes to go running around all over the place & helping 3rd world countries too.

I have a problem helping them fund trips when they wont/don't help the local people first.

I also have a problem with ministers making it about money instead of God.


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## Harry Chickpea (Dec 19, 2008)

DEKE01 said:


> OK, let's say you are putting on a fund raising activity for your local favored politician. You really believe in this guy/gal and think they can make real progress in those areas you think are most important.
> 
> And then the other party says, hey, why don't you let us come to your fundraiser and we'll serve the dinner for you. You going to invite them in?
> 
> Before anyone tells me it is not a perfect analogy, I agree, because Christians have a duty to invite in the unsaved and hope to be a positive force. If the kitchen lady was enforcing a no atheists interrogation to make sure no single atheist could get thru the door, I would agree, very strange. Similarly, I would happily invite any gun hater to a pro 2A rally in the hopes that I could show them that 2A lovers aren't nut jobs. But I wouldn't let Bloomberg's Mayors Against Illegal Guns help run the pro 2A rally.


Yeah, I see and understand your points. I also recognize the social exclusivity aspects of groups, clubs, churches, etc. with a shared agenda. I simply happened to fixate at an early age on "We, the people of the United States" and "... all men are created equal." I know that pure egalitarianism won't work any more than the Balkanization of religions, but I find that creed much more palatable.


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## Brighton (Apr 14, 2013)

Harry Chickpea said:


> I simply happened to fixate at an early age on "We, the people of the United States" and "... all men are created equal."


To bad it doesn't say, "All men, women, colors, denominations, sexual orientations, are created equal", because we are!


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## farmrbrown (Jun 25, 2012)

Well some of you are right, there IS more to this story than what the headlines are saying.
I caught this on our local news, Spartanburg is about an hour away.
Yes, it's true the woman that runs the soup kitchen said they weren't welcome to help.
It's true that at first they wanted to wear their atheist T-shirts, but said that if the church objected to it, they wouldn't wear them. And it's true they were still told "No."

This seemed odd to me to.
Then I saw the interview with the church lady, she's an old black woman and has been doing this for years.
What she said was, she said no because the atheists were planning on showing up for just one day and she does this 365 days a year.
Even with their concessions, she felt this more of a publicity stunt on their part rather than a sincere effort to help, and that it was going to be more trouble than than it was worth.
I'm thinking that her discernment about their motives was probably right.
There are a few verses in Proverbs that come to mind regarding trouble and strife and being wise to avoid them.

BTW, in case it comes up, there IS a difference between "discernment" and "judging" someone. It's a fine line, but if done properly, it works well.


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## Annsni (Oct 27, 2006)

I'm sorry but a Christian ministry usually only allows those to represent it who believe as they believe. The Bible talks about unequal yoking and light and darkness not being together. I agree with the soup kitchen if it is a Christian organization doing the organizing.


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## poppy (Feb 21, 2008)

farmrbrown said:


> Well some of you are right, there IS more to this story than what the headlines are saying.
> I caught this on our local news, Spartanburg is about an hour away.
> Yes, it's true the woman that runs the soup kitchen said they weren't welcome to help.
> It's true that at first they wanted to wear their atheist T-shirts, but said that if the church objected to it, they wouldn't wear them. And it's true they were still told "No."
> ...


I saw a story on this a week or so ago on another site that agreed with what you posted. In describing the spokeswoman for the atheist group, it called her "atheist activist" and then her name. It was purely a publicity stunt. If the atheist group really wants to feed the hungry, why don't they start their own food pantry or soup kitchen? I would applaud them for that act of kindness. As a general rule, anyone who has the word "activist" assigned to them is someone you are better off not having around.


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## DEKE01 (Jul 17, 2013)

Brighton said:


> Well of course I don't go to help wearing a "I don't believe in God" Tee-Shirt, but the fact that I am welcomed with open arms and minds, not only by the entire congregation but also by the long term Pastor at our United Methodist Church, to not only serve meals but guide youth, well I think that speaks volumes for a town as small as mine! And could be a guide and lesson to others who turn down help just because someone doesn't believe in God, it doesn't mean we don't believe in helping our fellow man...some Christians should take note of that lesson!


In a couple of posts you argue convincingly for a position I have yet to see anyone in this thread dispute. You do nice things. You apparently do not proselytize within the church. You have a welcoming church that accepts you. All good; I applaud you and that church. That is all outside the topic of this thread.


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## DEKE01 (Jul 17, 2013)

Feather In The Breeze said:


> Okay what site?
> I see someone displaying hatred toward atheists, you. Hatred is a strong word, I'm sure you get it. Why?
> 
> The whole article is about Christians throwing out atheists. It is hatred by supposedly Christians toward atheists.
> ...


This is just bizarre. Is Pony displaying hate because he doesn't agree with you? Because he reported that the group wanted to wear pro atheist t-shirts, something I've also read? I just don't get your position.


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## unregistered41671 (Dec 29, 2009)

Brighton said:


> I am welcomed with open arms and minds, not only by the entire congregation but also by the long term Pastor at our United Methodist Church, to not only serve meals but guide youth


No offense meant, but if I were a pastor or parent at that church, I would not want or permit an atheist to guide anyone there, especially youth. Sorry, it seems to mix like water and oil.


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## unregistered41671 (Dec 29, 2009)

DEKE01 said:


> This is just bizarre. Is Pony displaying hate because he doesn't agree with you? Because he reported that the group wanted to wear pro atheist t-shirts, something I've also read? I just don't get your position.


Read my sig.


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## poppy (Feb 21, 2008)

DEKE01 said:


> This is just bizarre. Is Pony displaying hate because he doesn't agree with you? Because he reported that the group wanted to wear pro atheist t-shirts, something I've also read? I just don't get your position.


It's typical of all groups seeking victim status. You quickly become an evil phobe of some kind if you dare disagree with their views. I grew tired of it long ago and ignore them.


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## farmrbrown (Jun 25, 2012)

I was searching around for similar events around the area, mainly because there have been a few stories in the local news over the past year or two involving protests of prayers at high school games, council meetings etc, and I am not familiar enough with what groups were involved. It might not have been this particular one, I don't know.
But I ran across this from Georgia and thought it seemed ironically relevant.

http://www.inquisitr.com/310255/ath...ing-football-players-before-games-in-georgia/

Posted: August 23, 2012
Atheists Protest Churches Feeding Football Players Before Games In Georgia

LaFayette, GA &#8211; Atheist group, Freedom From Religion Foundation, claims Georgia high schools are violating the First Amendment by allowing churches to feed football players before games. The Freedom From Religion Foundation sent a letter to Walker County Schools in LaFayette, Georgia demanding an investigation into football coach Mark Mariakis and the practice of feeding football players by local church groups, according to The Blaze. Mark Mariakis coaches football at Ridgeland High School.


Read more at http://www.inquisitr.com/310255/ath...-before-games-in-georgia/#tssq4MGOLgZzHBkL.99


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## Brighton (Apr 14, 2013)

Possum Belly said:


> No offense meant, but if I were a pastor or parent at that church, I would not want or permit an atheist to guide anyone there, especially youth. Sorry, it seems to mix like water and oil.


That is your choice, yahoo, good for you! I imagine after knowing me for 16 years that the Pastor of the church my family attends knows my heart better than you, and knowing him all that time, if I was a problem or leading youth astray then he would have ask me to stop volunteering and helping.


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## JeffreyD (Dec 27, 2006)

Brighton said:


> That is your choice, yahoo, good for you! I imagine after knowing me for 16 years that the Pastor of the church my family attends knows my heart better than you, and knowing him all that time, if I was a problem or leading youth astray then he would have ask me to stop volunteering and helping.


I'm pretty sure he meant the church in the article, not you or yours! It's very cool you are able to help out.


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## DEKE01 (Jul 17, 2013)

Possum Belly said:


> Read my sig.


{ding ding ding} We have a winner!


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## Laura Zone 5 (Jan 13, 2010)

There is SO MUCH MORE to this story than we are getting.....


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## copperkid3 (Mar 18, 2005)

Possum Belly said:


> Read my sig.


+ + + + +
to say the exact same thing!:hysterical::thumb:


Great minds and all that rot . . .


Now, as regards the church mission lady and the atheist activist, 

we have a case where there is either discernment or discrimination

involved. Because we have an activist with a preconceived attitude

towards a "christian" charity, it stands to reason that they might

very well try and slant the way they were 'wronged' to gain sympathy 

for their cause or to bring discredit to their enemy. Hence they perceive

(and wish for all of their supporters to do so as well) to view the church lady 

as being discriminatory and hateful . . . and their goal is accomplished.

The church lady on the other hand, has been doing this for years;

day in and day out and likely has had prior experience with these

(or similar) activists types and realizes that they are only there to 

promote an agenda; either to cause a scene and evoke a negative

response against the church or to promote themselves at the expense

of the mission. In which case, she is using discernment in telling them no thanks.

She may very well have been reminded of what her master stated in Matthew 6: 1-4.


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## SeanInVa (Oct 3, 2013)

Feather In The Breeze said:


> In my utopian world (that doesn't exist).
> I'm not an atheist, but why are the atheists being treated like they did something wrong when they were trying to help? It's not because all Christians hate all atheists. Evangelical Christians would lose purpose in life if there were no agnostics or atheists. (generally speaking)


You might be surprised. As an agnostic living in a "southern" state - Christians, and yes I am generalizing based on my experience, are overwhelmingly the most bigoted and hurtful people I have ever met in my life. I have been dealing with these "compassionate" and "loving" people for 20 years over my lack of faith. Tell them you believe in god, and they will give you the shirt off their back. Tell them you don't, and they wouldn't pee on you if you were on fire and had a baby in your arms.

I know that probably offends someone here, but this is MY personal experience. You should know I GREW UP in southern baptist churches and professed christ as my lord and savior when I was like 10. Been baptized, etc. But my views have changed as I have gotten older and wiser. I could "say" I believe in god, but then I would be lying. Why is it so bad that the same thing that tells you there is a god, tells me there isn't. In my heart I don't believe there is a god - but I also am not stupid enough to say with certainty that "there is no god", because we simply don't know.

So - while most christians will view this as the big bad meanie atheists are up to something evil, it's really just the status quo when it comes to how christians deal with those w/o any faith at all, from 20 years of directly interacting with them as someone w/o faith.

Side note - it's nice to see apparently this isn't the "norm" across the country


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## Laura Zone 5 (Jan 13, 2010)

Can I add this?

Any time "a group" wants to do something / anything that disrupts 'another groups' core, I find it offensive, reprehensible and down right dirty.

Mind your own dang business.....do your thing, whatever it is, and get over yourself.


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## City Bound (Jan 24, 2009)

I see no problem with proprietors of a soup kitchens excluding atheists or anyone else they see fit to exclude for whatever reason they see fit, especially if the soup kitchen is run by a religious group who may find atheists offensive and undermining to their personal faith and the over all morale of their charity mission.

We are all not one big happy family on this earth. Whatever happened to birds of a feather sticking together and sticking to your own kind? Maybe we should honor the fact that diversity is not always harmonious, natural, or workable just as much as we honor the merits of diversity. Every coin has two sides.


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## summerdaze (Jun 11, 2009)

In these days, you're not cool, open enough, big hearted enough, sincere enough, loving enough, PC enough, if you are not opening yourself, or your organization/business up to infiltration by others who do not have the same core principles, goals and aspirations as you do.
Sounds like this church has 2 goals. 1)Feed people and 2) minister to their spiritual needs which is much the same as other church run soup kitchens. They pray over their people, they make themselves available to share their Christian beliefs, in the hope that they can help better these people's lives. They offer hope to the hopeless. They create a "safe" loving atmosphere for the people to come to, in order to meet their needs, physical AND spiritual. 

The athiests might have killed it on the first goal, but are they prepared to attend to the more spiritual things if needed? I don't see how. It'd be like hiring someone in your business who can do only half of their job duties. They do that 1/2 really well, but they still are only doing 1/2 of what needs doing, and messing up your vision of how you want things done in regards to what you're trying to achieve.
You get the very best people for the job don't you? And you would even if the people aren't paid. 

I've heard common complaints from a large soup kitchen where I live. They are bombarded by folks who want to pop in for a day to "help" around the holidays, and that is the extent to which they want to help. Because of the volume of needy folks at the time, they really need it to operate smoothly and efficiently more then ever. Having new folks around who don't know the drill, don't know where anything is, get in the way, etc, is not that much help. 
I suspect a lot of people who want to do a one day gig (Christians and NON) at the holidays may not always have the best motives. For a lot of 'em, it may be more about being SEEN doing good, and having something positive to put in the newsletter, etc. (as in a LOT of cameras happen to be there)


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## DEKE01 (Jul 17, 2013)

SeanInVa said:


> You might be surprised. As an agnostic living in a "southern" state - Christians, and yes I am generalizing based on my experience, are overwhelmingly the most bigoted and hurtful people I have ever met in my life. I have been dealing with these "compassionate" and "loving" people for 20 years over my lack of faith. Tell them you believe in god, and they will give you the shirt off their back. Tell them you don't, and they wouldn't pee on you if you were on fire and had a baby in your arms.
> 
> I know that probably offends someone here, but this is MY personal experience. You should know I GREW UP in southern baptist churches and professed christ as my lord and savior when I was like 10. Been baptized, etc. But my views have changed as I have gotten older and wiser. I could "say" I believe in god, but then I would be lying. Why is it so bad that the same thing that tells you there is a god, tells me there isn't. In my heart I don't believe there is a god - but I also am not stupid enough to say with certainty that "there is no god", because we simply don't know.
> 
> ...


Sean you are projecting your own bias to see what you want to see. Of course there are some spectacularly bigoted people who are Christian or more likely just claim to be Christian. That insane supposedly christian group in Kansas that hates, yes, hates gays is a case in point. I'm no gay activist, but that group of haters is what gives hate such a bad name. 

I too was raised in a Southern Baptist church and remember the Wednesday night meeting when they were trying to make a big decision about the future of the church. I was a kid in the mid 60s. The discussion was heated. Then one man stood up and angrily shouted, "If you let Nig***s in this church my family is changing churches." Quite the Christian attitude. In the end, the church voted to allow blacks, and the racists left our church because most of the church membership was Christian. That church prospers to this day with probably 30% black membership. And if you look you look around and see what the Southern Baptists spend on missionary work in the US and African, you see that they put feet to their faith. 

I've seen many an atheist and agnostic welcomed into that church and others. Why not, it is the target audience for growing the church. 

The soup kitchen has done nothing wrong or bigoted. They have a 20 year investment in serving their community and church and have no obligation to offer their platform up to a group of people whose beliefs are antithetical to the church's mission.


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## unregistered5595 (Mar 3, 2003)

SeanInVa said:


> You might be surprised. As an agnostic living in a "southern" state - Christians, and yes I am generalizing based on my experience, are overwhelmingly the most bigoted and hurtful people I have ever met in my life. I have been dealing with these "compassionate" and "loving" people for 20 years over my lack of faith. Tell them you believe in god, and they will give you the shirt off their back. Tell them you don't, and they wouldn't pee on you if you were on fire and had a baby in your arms.
> 
> I know that probably offends someone here, but this is MY personal experience. You should know I GREW UP in southern baptist churches and professed christ as my lord and savior when I was like 10. Been baptized, etc. But my views have changed as I have gotten older and wiser. I could "say" I believe in god, but then I would be lying. Why is it so bad that the same thing that tells you there is a god, tells me there isn't. In my heart I don't believe there is a god - but I also am not stupid enough to say with certainty that "there is no god", because we simply don't know.
> 
> ...


Sean, I think you are right. I was thinking through all the people I am friends with and those I worked with and what you are saying is true. 

In the upper midwest my friends and I discuss our Christianity and about how true or wise something is and how we feel about things in our hearts. Our actions are good Christian actions and words. I can honestly say we've never had discussions of agnostics or atheists in any negative way if at all. I'm going to ask my best friend about it and see if she has any thoughts about it. We (upper midwest) seem to be more 'all inclusive' in most activities and social engagements.

The southern Christians transplanted here seem to work on making things 'look' good, no matter their real feelings (and mean ones at that), and I can't tell you how often I see/hear them say something rude or mean and "Bless Your Heart". From the ones I knew, making appearances at church and judging others harshly was a given. It is not a horrible thing, to put up with these Christians because if you are expecting to be treated badly, it isn't a great disappointment when you are treated badly.

In the past I had never looked at why some people claiming to be Christians were so nasty but now I think I can actually divide them up by the location they were raised in--southern, northern. And yes this is an over generalization, it just happens to be true from my experience too.

I'm not saying we (the upper midwest) are all homogeneous and we are the captains of diversification, there's plenty of bigotry and discrimination, just not in the religious/non-religious area. I'm just not seeing that here. 

The newspaper article (s), I would have found it much more palatable if the Christian group with open arms invited the atheists in, the atheists misbehaved at some point, THEN, the Christian group rejected the help of the atheists at that point. I don't think it would have turned into a media circus that way.


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## NickieL (Jun 15, 2007)

People should help people. Don't give a crud about your religion, race, age... If I can help I will.


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## arabian knight (Dec 19, 2005)

When a group comes in to even help another group especially when it IS a religious group that has a mission statement, and is doing Gods work. Then there is a problem when another groups comes in wearing their OWN t-shirts Spouting Their OWN agenda and values that go against Christian teachings. 
The church was way within their rights to kick them OUT. Period.
You don;t do this you don't come to another persons party and spout YOUR agenda, that alone goes against Christian teachings. Sure HELPING is fine But NOT when you are their to Spout Off your own agenda. I bet there would have been no trouble had 'they' not been wearing shirts with 'their' believes. There IS going to be problems. End of story.


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## Annsni (Oct 27, 2006)

Remember that there is a difference between attending a church (a church is open to everyone and their goal is to introduce you to God and from there, God changes lives) and doing a ministry in the name of the church. A church will expect that those who are ministering with them will have the same foundational beliefs and in our church, you are to sign a ministry covenant with the church in order to be a part of ministry/teaching/leadership. But you don't need to sign that to come and attend the church.


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## Patchouli (Aug 3, 2011)

farmrbrown said:


> Well some of you are right, there IS more to this story than what the headlines are saying.
> I caught this on our local news, Spartanburg is about an hour away.
> Yes, it's true the woman that runs the soup kitchen said they weren't welcome to help.
> It's true that at first they wanted to wear their atheist T-shirts, but said that if the church objected to it, they wouldn't wear them. And it's true they were still told "No."
> ...


So you really think if say President Obama and his staff wanted to show up for a day to work there she wouldn't be accommodating? Or another Church group? Plenty of groups come and only serve for a day. It's quite common at most soup kitchens. 

I don't see how you can ascribe any sort of rational reason to her decision after she made this statement: "Landrum said that âthey can set up across the street from the Soup Kitchen. They can have the devil there with them, but they better not come across the street.â


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## City Bound (Jan 24, 2009)

Patchouli said:


> I don't see how you can ascribe any sort of rational reason to her decision after she made this statement: "Landrum said that âthey can set up across the street from the Soup Kitchen. They can have the devil there with them, but they better not come across the street.â


Simply because those are her religious and spiritual beliefs and it is her personal faith to defend and live by those beliefs. What if the soup kitchen was kosher would be offensive if the jews refused to allow gentiles to serve simply because they are considered unclean?


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## farmrbrown (Jun 25, 2012)

Patchouli said:


> So you really think if say President Obama and his staff wanted to show up for a day to work there she wouldn't be accommodating? Or another Church group? Plenty of groups come and only serve for a day. It's quite common at most soup kitchens.
> 
> I don't see how you can ascribe any sort of rational reason to her decision after she made this statement: "Landrum said that &#8220;they can set up across the street from the Soup Kitchen. They can have the devil there with them, but they better not come across the street.&#8221;



I can't really speak for her whether she would or wouldn't accept a day of help from Obama. I think she probably would, but I don't know how she personally feels about him and whether some of his policies would offend her, like gay marriage. It has turned off a lot of black, conservative churches.:shrug:

But I DO know a little more about the atheist groups in SC and their recent activities. She probably knows even more than I do.
They have made quite a stink in some of the local cities lately, upset quite a few people that have been just doing what they've always done, tried to stop or disrupt some events and generally been a PITA.
As I alluded to in my post, if it really wasn't a sincere offer to help, and more of an attempt to disrupt or use on their website as a publicity stunt, then what she said becomes more clearer. It's called wisdom and understanding.
If you know it's trouble knocking on your door, why open it and let it in?


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## Tabitha (Apr 10, 2006)

Grumpy old man said:


> Religion is a business everywhere and here in Tn there is a church on every back country rd and many more in town many have less than 100 members yet support a pastor and deacons ,and mission trips to the far east and africa spending thousands of dollars on trips out of the country while children are starving shoeless  and basically homeless less than a mile from the church . its very sad but true !


Somewhat true, but it is mostly churches who are busy doing good works helping the poor. The church my son goes to is really working hard at it. They started a program in our county to send backpacks home with hungry children over the weekend. They collect clothing now for children, several of the members are teachers and know who the needy families are. Unfortunately lots of drug parents with children suffering neglect accordingly. The ladies make quilts for a children's home, every child has it's own quilt made especially for the child. It is a pastor who has started a sort of home and program for guys wanting to kick drugs. 
Why don't the atheists start their own soupkitchen? I would not want to force myself on someone if I am not welcome. 
Who knows what all is in that story. Atheists good, Christians bad? So the church wants to run the soupkitchen for the poor by themselves. Maybe they have a reasonable reason.


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## Awnry Abe (Mar 21, 2012)

Every good gift...comes from above. (Paraphrasing James) If you are motivated to help the poor, as a Christian or an Athiest, then understand that the good love you are pouring out is not from you, but from above. If you volunteer in a soup kitchen, as a Christian or Athiest, and your motive is anything remotely self-serving, then it is driven from the evil in your heart. If you are doing it as a Christian to make points, or as an Athiest to make a point, you are gonna need a better lawyer.


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## How Do I (Feb 11, 2008)

Speaking as one who used to frequent these types of places when I was roaming the streets. There were several down in the south-eastish that required you to get god or go somewhere else to eat. I always wondered...would your jesus treat you that way? Anyone that belongs to a 'church' that does that should be ashamed of themselves. Needless to say, I went to sleep under a bridge hungry some nights if Burger King had locked their dumpster after closing. I was sleeping on Hollywood Blvd. one night in a cardboard box. I woke up with a brown paper lunch sack full of food. I was sure there would be a religious pamphlet in there somewhere, but nope. No sign of jesus to be found except in maybe actions only. Now ask me why I would remember both of these instances.


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## copperkid3 (Mar 18, 2005)

Having pondered this thread for some time now . . . having read from both sides of the aisle,

it becomes abundantly clear, that there is already a built-in bias towards the lady running the 

soup kitchen mission. In some cases, that bias is clearly manifested into hatred for anything or

anyone christian or who tries to explain or defend the woman's right to run the kitchen as she 

sees fit. This shouldn't surprise believers, insomuch as the Lord Himself stated in John 15:18-19

"If the world hates you,-you know that it hated Me, before it has hated you.
"If you were of the world, the world would love its own; 
but because you are not of the world, but I chose you out of the world,
because of this the world hates you."

And in Luke 21:17 -
"and you will be hated by all because of My name." 

Apparently the rationale given by those defending the church lady's right to decide

who she wants in helping to assist her, isn't good enough for those who despise 

who she represents, and it's doubtful that ANY amount of explanations or examples will suffice, 

but I'm going to try once more and see if anything 'sticks'. Let's pretend that the story reported 

was reversed; I.e. That an activist atheist has been conducting a soup kitchen for a number of years and 

suddenly out of the blue, several members of the Westboro Baptist Church decide that

they would like to help assist, but of course would like to be able to carry their 'hate' signs

while serving the homeless and the hungry. Think there'd be a problem? The media would

literally eat it up . . . . much more so, than what we're now reading in our real life incident no doubt.

This question now begs an answer: What was the o.p.'s reason for posting in the first place?

Does she truly believe EVERYTHING that is published and not discern the biased slant an article's

author may convey, or do not individual's or groups not have a right to say who can help or not?

Light and darkness have little in common. Water and oil have a hard time mixing.

Somehow . . . I have the distinct feeling, that if members of the Westboro Baptist Church

came by to offer their help to the soup kitchen lady, she'd decline that offer as well.

Romans 1:19 -
because that which is known about God is evident
within them; for God made it evident to them.
Romans 1:20 -
For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes,
His eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly seen,
being understood through what has been made, so that they are without excuse.
Romans 1:21 -
For even though they knew God, they did not honor Him as God or give thanks, 
but they became futile in their speculations, and their foolish heart was darkened.
Romans 1:22 -
Professing to be wise, they became fools . . .


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## Pops2 (Jan 27, 2003)

DEKE01 said:


> This is just bizarre. Is Pony displaying hate because he doesn't agree with you? Because he reported that the group wanted to wear pro atheist t-shirts, something I've also read? I just don't get your position.


Part of the victim mentality is to see hatred & discrimination where it doesn't exist.


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## beowoulf90 (Jan 13, 2004)

Feather In The Breeze said:


> A soup kitchen won't let atheists help. What a sad commentary in today's world.
> http://www.mediaite.com/online/soup-kitchen-invites-everyone-to-volunteer-unless-youre-an-atheist/


I have had personal experiences in similar situations..

I am a Pagan and our coven raised some money through bake sales and such and went to donate that money to one of the better known Missions. They rejected and returned the check because of the Coven name on the check. 
Of course we were kind of stunned that they didn't want our help to feed those who needed fed. We didn't ask for any recognition or anything else. The only ones that would have known would have been them and their accountant (or who ever handles their money ) and the Coven. We did it to help others not for the "glory" 
But that was their decision. 

So we gave to another organization. 

I find it ironic that some of these "charities" won't except donations for those Groups of other faiths.. They would rather look down their noses. 
The shame of it is that the ones who "pay" for their actions are the ones that can least afford it.
Because their "CEO's" "CFO's or what ever they call their lead positions are payed extremely well, almost to the point of corruption.. Funny how well some of these people are paid to do charitable work..


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## unregistered5595 (Mar 3, 2003)

copperkid3 said:


> This question now begs an answer: What was the o.p.'s reason for posting in the first place?
> 
> Does she truly believe EVERYTHING that is published and not discern the biased slant an article's
> 
> author may convey, or do not individual's or groups not have a right to say who can help or not?


I have no hate for atheists or agnostics and I don't believe that atheists or agnostics are hate groups.
I have no hate for Christians, as I am one, but her statements are hateful and judgmental. There is no bias toward this Christian woman except for those who read her statements quoted in her newspaper article.

In reading the news articles, the only people making statements for the news articles that were quoted were the nasty remarks by the 'Christian' woman in charge of it, therefore representing a Christian organization. So the whole publicity stunt, was of her making. What keeps getting left out is that the atheists were agreeable to not wearing their atheist t-shirts. 

No I don't believe everything I read but I also don't imagine things and call it discernment. There was a written article, it had quotes of things said-hateful things, and there may or may not be a slant. 

Do they (any organization) have the right to decide this or that, yes, sure, they do, and she could have done it in a more Christian way--with a better choice of words. Do they have a RIGHT TO SAY? YES, let's just hope they can do that in a Christian or Humanitarian manner.

Copperkid--why does the OP's reason for posting in the first place matter? It doesn't. Unless you need fodder for a personal attack.

But in ANY case, I was shocked someone refused the help of another group. The question of religion or lack of faith is not something anyone here (where I live) would ever ask before inviting them to help or after inviting them to help.

The most important thing, was feeding the hungry, that is the point. The point was apparently lost except for those posts of people, agnostics and atheists that posted here, telling of their experiences. (and I appreciate that you shared those--not because of taking sides, but, it was your experience and it should be valued)

Yesterday we had trick or treat here. I handed off a bag of garlic we grew to one of the neighbors. I've never even asked them if they subscribe to my religion or some other religion or lack thereof. 

Last week-end a man opened a door for me, helped me. I didn't ask him if he was a Christian or a non-believer before I stepped through the door. I thanked him.


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## KnowOneSpecial (Sep 12, 2010)

It seems a lot of people on this board want Churches and other agencies to take over caring for the poor and for the government to get out of social services. My point has always been that when you do that you have to play by the rules of the Church or agency and that can lead to trouble....just like in this case. 

It can also go for certain Churches who will only help heterosexuals or people who regularly attend their church. It's going to evolve into a form of discrimination and it'll be OK because the poor should just suck it up and lower themselves to fit the rules. We as a society are already at a place where being poor is a condition to be demonized, unless you're getting corporate welfare. In that case you're entitled to it. 

We need to think long and hard about how we handle social services and what we really want.


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## tiffnzacsmom (Jan 26, 2006)

As to why an athiest group doesn't set up it's own soup kitchen it's about cost. Tax exempt organizations get sales and often property tax exemptions but to get those exemptions cost money and time. The group I belong to has no set building because we are raising money for it and to cover the costs of becoming tax exempt. Most of our charity work has been single people getting aid or donating to larger groups. It isn't as easy to get a non traditional nonprofit up and running as some would like.

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## Cornhusker (Mar 20, 2003)

Ardie/WI said:


> Stupid, stupid, stupid!
> 
> Make me hesitant to tell ppl I'm a Christian.


That's the idea


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## MJsLady (Aug 16, 2006)

The bottom line to me from reading around is the atheist group was not really interested in helping but making a point. 
Otherwise they could have set up an additional food kitchen and worked on it. Not just for 1 day but continually doing good. Instead they wanted a 1 day press notice. See we are good people too kind of thing. 

the church group rightly did not wish to give such a message free advertising in their ministry.


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## Patchouli (Aug 3, 2011)

copperkid3 said:


> Having pondered this thread for some time now . . . having read from both sides of the aisle,
> 
> it becomes abundantly clear, that there is already a built-in bias towards the lady running the
> 
> ...


That analogy has nothing to do with the case at hand. The Atheist group said they would NOT wear anything identifying who they are and they are not a hate group. 

A true analogy would be what if there was a group of Atheists and humanists and everyone else in that spectrum who ran a soup kitchen. And one day a group from their local Presbyterian Church came by and asked if they could serve one day in the soup kitchen. I have no doubt whatsoever they would be allowed in to help. Because as a general rule anyone running a charity is happy to get any help they can get. And the Atheists won't have any superstitious nonsense to keep them from letting in anyone who wants to help. 

And please get over this whole you must hate Jesus if you disagree with her actions stuff. I happen to be just fine with Jesus and firmly believe he would never have acted this way.


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## NickieL (Jun 15, 2007)

Post of the day^^^


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## Patchouli (Aug 3, 2011)

MJsLady said:


> The bottom line to me from reading around is the atheist group was not really interested in helping but making a point.
> Otherwise they could have set up an additional food kitchen and worked on it. Not just for 1 day but continually doing good. Instead they wanted a 1 day press notice. See we are good people too kind of thing.
> 
> the church group rightly did not wish to give such a message free advertising in their ministry.


Why would you set up another food kitchen when you already have one in town meeting the need? That makes no sense. Let everyone work in the one they have, don't make everyone start their own. If you do that then you have to have money to set up and run multiple buildings and all the added expenses. It's a waste of money. Money that could go to actually meeting people's needs would instead be wasted on infrastructure.


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## Annsni (Oct 27, 2006)

Here is what the Bible has to say about partnering with those who do not have the same beliefs as believers:

2 Corinthians 6:14-18 says:

"Do not be unequally yoked with unbelievers. For what partnership has righteousness with lawlessness? Or what fellowship has light with darkness? What accord has Christ with Belial? Or what portion does a believer share with an unbeliever? What agreement has the temple of God with idols? For we are the temple of the living God; as God said,

âI will make my dwelling among them and walk among them,
and I will be their God,
and they shall be my people.
Therefore go out from their midst,
and be separate from them, says the Lord,
and touch no unclean thing;
then I will welcome you,
and I will be a father to you,
and you shall be sons and daughters to me,
says the Lord Almighty.â"


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## Annsni (Oct 27, 2006)

Patchouli said:


> Why would you set up another food kitchen when you already have one in town meeting the need? That makes no sense. Let everyone work in the one they have, don't make everyone start their own. If you do that then you have to have money to set up and run multiple buildings and all the added expenses. It's a waste of money. Money that could go to actually meeting people's needs would instead be wasted on infrastructure.


I guess there aren't that many people who are needy by you? Around here, there are plenty of needy to go around. Most soup kitchens aren't open 7 days a week so go ahead and pick another day to cover!


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## NickieL (Jun 15, 2007)

Nm. Not worth the fight.





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## Annsni (Oct 27, 2006)

NickieL said:


> So do you want to help fellow human beings or do you just want to be religious?


I cannot separate the two. I'm not "religious" but my faith is all of me. All that I do is based in my faith.


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## Molly Mckee (Jul 8, 2006)

I was the director of our town's help agency for 3 years. It was a combination of the majority of the churches in our small town, with support of the city government as well. We started out welcoming everyone who wanted to help, but had some real problems with it. While most volunteers were great, a few were mean, several men used it as a way to hit on women and other inappropriate things. We had to go to having a Pastor or head of the church, recommend people. The other choice was to "fire" volunteer's, after they had insulted someone, or worse.
I don't think this woman did anything wrong. Atheists as a group (or any other group) have no business demanding to be a part of another groups project. It seems to me that this was simply an attention getting ploy, not any real desire to help. Had the Atheists really wanted to help they could have supported the soup kitchen by quietly collecting food or giving money and building trust.


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## City Bound (Jan 24, 2009)

KnowOneSpecial said:


> It seems a lot of people on this board want Churches and other agencies to take over caring for the poor and for the government to get out of social services. My point has always been that when you do that you have to play by the rules of the Church or agency and that can lead to trouble....just like in this case.
> 
> It can also go for certain Churches who will only help heterosexuals or people who regularly attend their church. It's going to evolve into a form of discrimination and it'll be OK because the poor should just suck it up and lower themselves to fit the rules. We as a society are already at a place where being poor is a condition to be demonized, unless you're getting corporate welfare. In that case you're entitled to it.
> 
> We need to think long and hard about how we handle social services and what we really want.


That is the same exact argument most conservatives have against the government taking over the role of charity in the community except that a church can't demand with armed force that you give them your money or else be thrown in prison. 

The greatest charity is encouraging people to take care of themselves.


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## City Bound (Jan 24, 2009)

tiffnzacsmom said:


> As to why an athiest group doesn't set up it's own soup kitchen it's about cost. Tax exempt organizations get sales and often property tax exemptions but to get those exemptions cost money and time. The group I belong to has no set building because we are raising money for it and to cover the costs of becoming tax exempt. Most of our charity work has been single people getting aid or donating to larger groups. It isn't as easy to get a non traditional nonprofit up and running as some would like.
> 
> Sent from my SCH-I535 using Homesteading Today mobile app


 
I see what you are saying but that sounds like defeatism. If you believe in something you try to make it a reality.


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## City Bound (Jan 24, 2009)

Patchouli said:


> And the Atheists won't have any superstitious nonsense to keep them from letting in anyone who wants to help.


See that there is the exact mentality that rubs people of faith the wrong way. It is condescending to call a person's spiritual beliefs superstitious nonsense. That kind of mentality in an atheist, even if they never state it verbally, is undermining to a group of spiritual people trying to engage in ministry. For Christians I would go so far to consider that they may see that mentality as an antichrist mentality and the influence of corrupting evil, which is an influence Christians try very hard to keep out of their lives, their families, their hearts, and their minds.

Christians are intolerant and condescending as well, just like most religious, political, and ethnic groups, and that is why I think people should simply leave each other alone and stick to their own kind so we can all finally get a little peace on this earth. 

Trying to fit the square peg in the round hole by whacking it with a sledge hammer is only fun for so long, but in the end it just leaves a mangled smashed up mess to clean up and a square peg is still a square peg.


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## arabian knight (Dec 19, 2005)

But you also should not be going to another ones church and then try your best to proselytize either. By wearing their OWN t-shirts that has a saying on it. THEY were doing exsatly THAT. And THAT is what was rubbing the Christian Church the wrong way.
You don't get invited over to someones else's home and tell THEM how to cook, how to set the table, how to serve the meal.


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## unregistered5595 (Mar 3, 2003)

Molly Mckee said:


> Had the Atheists really wanted to help they could have supported the soup kitchen by quietly collecting food or giving money and building trust.


Molly, thank you for helping the help agency in your town.

What about if the atheists give care packages away to the homeless? Not good enough?

How quietly should they collect food or money? Do you mean they shouldn't go to the newspaper and say how godless the Christians are acting?


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## Molly Mckee (Jul 8, 2006)

The Christians are not acting badly, the Atheists are. I would not have allowed them to help like they said they wanted to either. How long have they been giving packages away--just long enough to have people saying they only wanted to help?

The atheists wanted publicity, not to help anyone but themselves. They were trying to use the soup kitchen and their clients to get it. They had no business doing what they did the way they did. I don't see how anyone can defend their actions, unless they have an agenda.


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## unregistered5595 (Mar 3, 2003)

Molly Mckee said:


> The Christians are not acting badly, the Atheists are. I would not have allowed them to help like they said they wanted to either. How long have they been giving packages away--just long enough to have people saying they only wanted to help?
> 
> The atheists wanted publicity, not to help anyone but themselves. They were trying to use the soup kitchen and their clients to get it. They had no business doing what they did the way they did. I don't see how anyone can defend their actions, unless they have an agenda.


An agenda? You mean like love, acceptance, tolerance, caring? How about an agenda of feeding people?

How can you say the Christian Landrum is not acting badly? "They can have the devil there with them, but they better not come across the street."



> Landrum said that âthey can set up across the street from the Soup Kitchen. They can have the devil there with them, but they better not come across the street.â
> Brannon said the group frequently works with Christian non-profit organizations. âWeâve raised money for March of Dimes, worked with the Generous Garden Project, done community park clean ups, adopted a highway, and sponsored local foster children for Christmas.â


Landrum also said that they would not accept the atheist's money.

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2013/10/...tchen-refuses-to-allow-atheists-to-volunteer/


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## Molly Mckee (Jul 8, 2006)

Look the atheists wanted publicity. The lady wasn't happy about being used. Put Muslims into the equation, running the soup kitchen, the west borrow nasty church looking for publicity-I'd feel the same.

If you've ever run something like this you would know they wouldn't be any help, be in the way, and the reporters they brought along would also be a problem.


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## unregistered5595 (Mar 3, 2003)

Molly Mckee said:


> Look the atheists wanted publicity. The lady wasn't happy about being used. Put Muslims into the equation, running the soup kitchen, the west borrow nasty church looking for publicity-I'd feel the same.
> 
> If you've ever run something like this you would know they wouldn't be any help, be in the way, and the reporters they brought along would also be a problem.


The atheists didn't want anymore publicity than the Christians did.
You hate muslims too?
There are no reports that the atheists brought in reporters anymore than there are reports that the Christians brought in reporters. 

I have actually run something like this for poor families and I never turned away help offered. The intent was to help the poor.


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## unregistered41671 (Dec 29, 2009)

Molly Mckee said:


> Look the atheists wanted publicity. The lady wasn't happy about being used. Put Muslims into the equation, running the soup kitchen, the west borrow nasty church looking for publicity-I'd feel the same.
> 
> If you've ever run something like this you would know they wouldn't be any help, be in the way, and the reporters they brought along would also be a problem.





Feather In The Breeze said:


> The atheists didn't want anymore publicity than the Christians did.
> You hate muslims too?
> There are no reports that the atheists brought in reporters anymore than there are reports that the Christians brought in reporters.
> 
> I have actually run something like this for poor families and I never turned away help offered. The intent was to help the poor.


Hate, that word is used lots. Read my sig, Seems to happen an awful lot when you don't do the liberals bidding.


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## unregistered5595 (Mar 3, 2003)

Possum Belly said:


> Hate, that word is used lots. Read my sig, Seems to happen an awful lot when you don't do the liberals bidding.


Are you accusing her of being a liberal? HOW MEAN!!!  I actually have no idea if she is or she is not a liberal.

The facts keep getting in the way of all these arguments. Let's just feed the hungry and be done with it, together.


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## unregistered41671 (Dec 29, 2009)

I am sure we all know who is who.


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## MJsLady (Aug 16, 2006)

Hmmm I don't see the church folks whining to the media about the invading atheists. 
Nor do I see the atheists trying to oush thenselves on muslins. Do muslins not have worthy iut reach opportunities for them to butt into? 
Molly doesn't hate anyone. She, understands that the church is not willing to let those who deny Christ butt into things we do for HIM, not for publicity. 


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## Molly Mckee (Jul 8, 2006)

I used the Muslims -- substitute what ever group you want to for either side. I have had to deal with the aftermath of accepting any help that came along. The damage done to the people who need help is not very nice when they are not treated well, and it does not matter who is who. If you really want to help ask existing ministries-for want of a better term- what they think is needed, don't try to tell people with long term experience what you are going to do for them.

Other then the Westborrow group I "hate" few groups of people. And I don't "hate" the younger members of that group that have been raised in it, just those that should know better. 

Just because you don't agree with someone doesn't mean you hate them.


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## unregistered41671 (Dec 29, 2009)

Molly Mckee said:


> Just because you don't agree with someone doesn't mean you hate them.


Good words and the truth. 
_____________________________________________________________
*"10 Concepts Liberals Talk About Incessantly But Don't Understand*"


http://townhall.com/columnists/john...out_incessantly_but_dont_understand/page/full


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## DEKE01 (Jul 17, 2013)

Feather In The Breeze said:


> Are you accusing her of being a liberal? HOW MEAN!!!  I actually have no idea if she is or she is not a liberal.
> 
> The facts keep getting in the way of all these arguments. Let's just feed the hungry and be done with it, together.


the fact that you conveniently keep ignoring is that this soup kitchen is the 20 year project to serve a Christian mission, not just feed hungry folks. Atheists using the infrastructure the Christians have built up does not serve the mission of the kitchen. 

Yeah, the lady who said her thing about the devil and staying across the street could have said it better. She runs a soup kitchen, not the PR dept for an international corporation.


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## DEKE01 (Jul 17, 2013)

Feather In The Breeze said:


> The atheists didn't want anymore publicity than the Christians did.


Again you ignore facts to justify your position. 

The soup kitchen has been doing this for 20 years and we had not heard of them. The atheists have poked their nose in for a few minutes and it is national news. Who is it that wanted publicity? Did the Christians offer to interrupt an atheist meeting with "Jesus Loves Atheists, Too" T-shirts and call the media when they were not allowed?


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## unregistered5595 (Mar 3, 2003)

Okay Deke keep pounding your head against the wall. It was a TWENTY YEAR PROJECT.
Slavery was....Women not voting was.....Some men beating their children was......sharia law still exist......lots of things are 20 year projects. What is the point? Just because it lasted for 20 years is no reason to think it is right.

She wasn't a PR person for a international corporation, after twenty years she couldn't pick and choose her words more wisely. Really? 

Feeding people is not a really complicated thing. People find and cook food and then they feed the hungry, why make it into a big political religious war?

One thing that makes me giggle is that all of 'us' Christian people are whining and complaining and the minority of agnostics and atheists, said they their piece and let it go. Like I said, I'm neither agnostic nor atheist, yet they are doing good. Why not just let all the good things happen whether they are done by Christians, atheists, or agnostics?


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## Molly Mckee (Jul 8, 2006)

You are the one who is "pounding you head against the wall". Obviously it your way or the highway. There is no sense in arguing with you. You refuse to even look at facts. In this world you don't get to do what you want, even if you are a minority, all the time. The Atheists wanted to help themselves, the soup kitchen lady said she did not want their help. Period. If they want to help people they can, just not force themselves on someone else.


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## k9 (Feb 6, 2008)

Whe doesn't this helpful atheist find some nice Muslim group to help out? I'm sure they would get a nice warm welcome......


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## Annsni (Oct 27, 2006)

k9 said:


> Whe doesn't this helpful atheist find some nice Muslim group to help out? I'm sure they would get a nice warm welcome......


You know, I've not seen a Muslim soup kitchen. I've not seen a Muslim help for the homeless. I don't know that they are not out there but I've never heard of any. Interesting....


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## k9 (Feb 6, 2008)

Annsni said:


> You know, I've not seen a Muslim soup kitchen. I've not seen a Muslim help for the homeless. I don't know that they are not out there but I've never heard of any. Interesting....


 Nor have i seen an atheist soup kitchen, but i would sure like to see that atheist get in the Muslims face about not having a soup kitchen they can push themselves into...


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## DEKE01 (Jul 17, 2013)

Feather In The Breeze said:


> Okay Deke keep pounding your head against the wall. It was a TWENTY YEAR PROJECT.
> Slavery was....Women not voting was.....Some men beating their children was......sharia law still exist......lots of things are 20 year projects. What is the point? Just because it lasted for 20 years is no reason to think it is right.
> 
> She wasn't a PR person for a international corporation, after twenty years she couldn't pick and choose her words more wisely. Really?
> ...


You keep asking the same question and I guess you don't like the answer. TWENTY YEARS - that means the soup kitchen has a tremendous investment in their service and mission. The atheists have none. In a previous message someone said the Atheists might not be able to create their own kitchen because it is too hard, too expensive, or whatever. Well NO DUH. That's the point. The Christians have done all the hard work for TWENTY YEARS and some Johnny come lately is not justified in appropriating the investment of the Christians. 

You keep saying this is about feeding the hungry, let the good happen. You keep ignoring that that is only part of what it is about. It is also about encouraging people into the church. The Atheists presence, as an organized group, making their mission known does nothing to further the mission of the church. In spite of your insistence, you are not entitled to the good works of others, you don't get to tell them how to run their mission. They might even be wrong and the Atheists presence would somehow bring more people to Christ. But it isn't your decision to make. 

That type of busy body intrusion has become the norm in gov't, so I guess you think it should apply everywhere. You don't think the TWENTY YEAR investment means anything but are sure the Atheists are entitled to a part of it. Perhaps you should just say, "If you have a soup kitchen, you didn't build that. Somebody else made that happen."


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## MJsLady (Aug 16, 2006)

You know that mission keeps feeding people. 
The atheist group gathered goids and passed them out how often?
The only reason this is "news" is because the atheists tried to bully their way in and the Christians stood up and said no.

All your arguments boil down to that.


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## copperkid3 (Mar 18, 2005)

OR deliberatively deceptive at worst. The real problem being that you appear to be the one most deceived. And what I find particularly bizarre, is describing yourself (as in the o.p.,) in the 3rd person . . . and equally noteworthy is when you stated what does it matter the reason for posting the article? It matters a lot regarding motive and clearly we've seen it throughout this entire posting. The ONLY person mentioning hate has been you and always directed at or inferred towards those who you disagree with or who challenge you to actually think. So think about this . . . You are NOT a Christian! Not by any true definition of the word. You have claimed such, but clearly from your attitude and outright hostility towards others who disagree with you regarding the church lady and who she allows to help her, are by far more anti-christian, than anything that she has been quoted as saying about the atheists. 
You can of course respond with the excuse, "that's just your opinion" or "I don't care what you have to say - I'm right and you're wrong!" and you would be partially correct. It is only my opinion and everyone has one. Am I therefore, anymore wrong to express my "opinion" regarding your salvation, than you over a soup kitchen lady's choice of words in refusing help from an activist atheist' group? If they were so pure of heart as you seem to want to portray them, how do you suppose the media got wind of the fact that she turned them down? If they truly cared about the hungry, they would have set up card tables on the sidewalks and gone about the business of feeding folks! Not complaining & whining to the media about the meany mission lady. You need to examine YOURSELF first before condemning others. That soup lady will one day have to give an account for her words and actions . . .the same as you. I'm truly amazed that Karen or one of the other mods hasn't locked this thread down by now, as it has been riding on the hairy edge of what one normally considers 'trolling' from the very start. I'm done with this thread and am shaking out the dust from my sandals on it. I would remind others of like minds and hearts, that continuing to toss pearls before swine, is ill advised. 
+ + + + + + + 


Feather In The Breeze said:


> I have no hate for atheists or agnostics and I don't believe that atheists or agnostics are hate groups.
> I have no hate for Christians, as I am one, but her statements are hateful and judgmental. There is no bias toward this Christian woman except for those who read her statements quoted in her newspaper article.
> 
> In reading the news articles, the only people making statements for the news articles that were quoted were the nasty remarks by the 'Christian' woman in charge of it, therefore representing a Christian organization. So the whole publicity stunt, was of her making. What keeps getting left out is that the atheists were agreeable to not wearing their atheist t-shirts.
> ...


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## Laura Zone 5 (Jan 13, 2010)

Patchouli said:


> That analogy has nothing to do with the case at hand. The Atheist group said they would NOT wear anything identifying who they are and they are not a hate group.
> 
> A true analogy would be what if there was a group of Atheists and humanists and everyone else in that spectrum who ran a soup kitchen. And one day a group from their local Presbyterian Church came by and asked if they could serve one day in the soup kitchen. *I have no doubt whatsoever they would be allowed in to help.* Because as a general rule anyone running a charity is happy to get any help they can get. And the Atheists won't have any superstitious nonsense to keep them from letting in anyone who wants to help.


PURE speculation.



Molly Mckee said:


> Look the atheists wanted publicity. The lady wasn't happy about being used. Put Muslims into the equation, running the soup kitchen, the west borrow nasty church looking for publicity-I'd feel the same.
> 
> If you've ever run something like this you would know they wouldn't be any help, be in the way, and the reporters they brought along would also be a problem.


Hey I have a better 'example'.....
How about let's pretend a kid wants to write a paper at public school, on his hero, and it happens to be Jesus?
How about let's pretend that a kid wants to draw a picture of Baby Jesus during the christmas season at school?
Let's pretend that an ultra religious group wants to wear their ultra religious t-shirts spouting their anti-abortion stance, while volunteering at an abortion clinic?
Let's pretend The Church of Wookie wants to volunteer at the Anti-Church of Wookie's annual food drive......and the Anti-Church of Wookie says no.




Feather In The Breeze said:


> The atheists didn't want anymore publicity than the Christians did.
> You hate muslims too?
> There are no reports that the atheists brought in reporters anymore than there are reports that the Christians brought in reporters.
> 
> I have actually run something like this for poor families and I never turned away help offered. The intent was to help the poor.


Well yikes
Haters are gonna hate, blamers gonna blame, whiners gonna whine.....whatcha gonna do?



DEKE01 said:


> You keep asking the same question and I guess you don't like the answer. * TWENTY YEARS -* that means the soup kitchen has a *tremendous investment in their service and mission.* *The atheists have none.* In a previous message someone said the Atheists might not be able to create their own kitchen because it is too hard, too expensive, or whatever. Well NO DUH. That's the point. The Christians have done all the hard work for TWENTY YEARS and some Johnny come lately is not justified in appropriating the investment of the Christians.
> 
> You keep saying this is about feeding the hungry, let the good happen. You keep ignoring that that is only part of what it is about. It is also about encouraging people into the church. The Atheists presence, as an organized group, making their mission known does nothing to further the mission of the church. In spite of your insistence, *you are not entitled to the good works of others, you don't get to tell them how to run their mission.* They might even be wrong and the Atheists presence would somehow bring more people to Christ. But it isn't your decision to make.
> 
> *That type of busy body intrusion has become the norm *in gov't, so I guess you think it should apply everywhere. You don't think the TWENTY YEAR investment means anything but are sure the Atheists are entitled to a part of it. Perhaps you should just say, "If you have a soup kitchen, you didn't build that. Somebody else made that happen."


Brilliant.


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## unregistered358967 (Jul 17, 2013)

Annsni said:


> You know, I've not seen a Muslim soup kitchen. I've not seen a Muslim help for the homeless. I don't know that they are not out there but I've never heard of any. Interesting....


http://www.icna.org/south-bay-muslims-deliver-meals-from-mobile-soup-kitchen/ Yep, there are some.  I'd wager not as many as other religious groups, but they do exist. I think they're more common in cities with high percentages, such as Minneapolis.


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## MJsLady (Aug 16, 2006)

Copperkid, I had the same thoughts last night on the pearls and swine thing.
I to will bow out.
Now if a real reason for the thread materializes besides whining over not getting ones way when butting into someones else's gig, I might change my mind.

Deke, I was thinking on those lines too.


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## Annsni (Oct 27, 2006)

Less-is-more said:


> http://www.icna.org/south-bay-muslims-deliver-meals-from-mobile-soup-kitchen/ Yep, there are some.  I'd wager not as many as other religious groups, but they do exist. I think they're more common in cities with high percentages, such as Minneapolis.


Cool!! Like I said - I had never seen one. I'm glad they are out there!


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## KnowOneSpecial (Sep 12, 2010)

So what exactly does "Christian Soup" taste like?! How is the Atheist Soup different? Does the Muslim Soup have any pork in it?! :rock::runforhills::catfight:


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## Patchouli (Aug 3, 2011)

City Bound said:


> See that there is the exact mentality that rubs people of faith the wrong way. It is condescending to call a person's spiritual beliefs superstitious nonsense. That kind of mentality in an atheist, even if they never state it verbally, is undermining to a group of spiritual people trying to engage in ministry. For Christians I would go so far to consider that they may see that mentality as an antichrist mentality and the influence of corrupting evil, which is an influence Christians try very hard to keep out of their lives, their families, their hearts, and their minds.
> 
> Christians are intolerant and condescending as well, just like most religious, political, and ethnic groups, and that is why I think people should simply leave each other alone and stick to their own kind so we can all finally get a little peace on this earth.
> 
> Trying to fit the square peg in the round hole by whacking it with a sledge hammer is only fun for so long, but in the end it just leaves a mangled smashed up mess to clean up and a square peg is still a square peg.


So how do you think it rubs the Atheists to be told they are minions of Satan? There are plenty of Christians who would never say such a thing and consider this woman's thinking to be mere superstition. 

It seems to me Christians are called to love everyone and not to shut themselves off from the world. If they really can't be around anyone else other than their own kind because they can't act right it kind of negates the whole religion doesn't it? 

Galatians 5:19 Now the works of the flesh are evident: sexual immorality, impurity, sensuality, 20 idolatry, sorcery, enmity, strife, jealousy, fits of anger, rivalries, dissensions, divisions, 21 envy, drunkenness, orgies, and things like these. I warn you, as I warned you before, that those who do such things will not inherit the kingdom of God. 22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, 23 gentleness, self-control; against such things there is no law. 24 And those who belong to Christ Jesus have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires.
25 If we live by the Spirit, let us also keep in step with the Spirit. 26 Let us not become conceited, provoking one another, envying one another.


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## unregistered5595 (Mar 3, 2003)

copper,
Why are you so upset? I don't think everyone will agree with me.

You are so emotional. What is that about?
I've already made it clear that I understand why they made the decision regarding the atheists, and they have that right. Having a right is different from doing the right thing.

I don't know where you can get off telling a Christian they are not a Christian. You just don't have the authority. So while some people might think 'hey good zinger', I'm not thinking that. I'm thinking that some people's opinions aren't worth worrying about. So I don't.

"the hairy edge of what one normally considers 'trolling"
copper--trolling is not caring about an issue, and I've made it clear that I do care about. It is shocking that Christians can publicly say such unChristian things. Don't hate the person, hate the behavior. We can all learn from that.


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## arabian knight (Dec 19, 2005)

copperkid3 said:


> OR deliberatively deceptive at worst. The real problem being that you appear to be the one most deceived. And what I find particularly bizarre, is describing yourself (as in the o.p.,) in the 3rd person . . . and equally noteworthy is when you stated what does it matter the reason for posting the article? It matters a lot regarding motive and clearly we've seen it throughout this entire posting. The ONLY person mentioning hate has been you and always directed at or inferred towards those who you disagree with or who challenge you to actually think. So think about this . . . You are NOT a Christian! Not by any true definition of the word. You have claimed such, but clearly from your attitude and outright hostility towards others who disagree with you regarding the church lady and who she allows to help her, are by far more anti-christian, than anything that she has been quoted as saying about the atheists.
> You can of course respond with the excuse, "that's just your opinion" or "I don't care what you have to say - I'm right and you're wrong!" and you would be partially correct. It is only my opinion and everyone has one. Am I therefore, anymore wrong to express my "opinion" regarding your salvation, than you over a soup kitchen lady's choice of words in refusing help from an activist atheist' group? If they were so pure of heart as you seem to want to portray them, how do you suppose the media got wind of the fact that she turned them down? If they truly cared about the hungry, they would have set up card tables on the sidewalks and gone about the business of feeding folks! Not complaining & whining to the media about the meany mission lady. You need to examine YOURSELF first before condemning others. That soup lady will one day have to give an account for her words and actions . . .the same as you. I'm truly amazed that Karen or one of the other mods hasn't locked this thread down by now, as it has been riding on the hairy edge of what one normally considers 'trolling' from the very start. I'm done with this thread and am shaking out the dust from my sandals on it. I would remind others of like minds and hearts, that continuing to toss pearls before swine, is ill advised.
> + + + + + + +


I agree with you. You can't and shouldn't go into another church and proselytize your own agenda. You just don't want to help the poor do yourselves or just go to help without trying to "convert" folks. period.


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## keenataz (Feb 17, 2009)

I happen to be an agnostic, not an atheist, not that it matters, but just have a couple of comments.

One it is a free country so I guess the group can pick who volunteers or not. And if they already have enough fair enough. 

And two I am guessing the atheist group had a couple of goals. I am hoping one is they truly wanted to help. But I am also sure another goal was to get publicity. I think it is fair to se they certainly succeeded on goal 2.


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## chickenista (Mar 24, 2007)

Ok.. so I thought I would pop back in because this got a little off course.
The atheist group is Upstate Atheists.
Their motto is 'Charity Beyonf Belief".

"Upstate Atheists is a charity group based in Upstate, South Carolina, whose mission is to gather and provide charitable services for the needy."

Yep.
Sure sounds like an agenda to me.
And they have been welcomed by and worked happily with other Christian organizations in the area.
The assumptions that the fault lies with the atheist group, that the atheist group has some sort of evil agenda or any other such notions are just the slanted opinion of the opiner and not based in factthat is based on the history of the group in the area.

The soup kitchen as the right to refuse. That is fine.
But having the director of the soup kitchen talking about the devil etc.. is just crazy.

I like what the atheists did to help the homeless anyway though.. the care packages with tootbrushes, hats and gloves etc..were awesome and they still got to help.
They seem like really nice folks and I love that they gather donations to buy gifts for foster kids for Christmas every year.


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## Tabitha (Apr 10, 2006)

Right, righteous, selfrighteous,...

She is doing her thing and if she feels bad around Atheists and wants to do her thing without them she needs to be judged and maligned. And the rest of Christianity with her. 
Let the atheists start their own soup kitchen. What's keeping them?


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## DEKE01 (Jul 17, 2013)

Tabitha said:


> Right, righteous, selfrighteous,...
> 
> She is doing her thing and if she feels bad around Atheists and wants to do her thing without them she needs to be judged and maligned. And the rest of Christianity with her.
> Let the atheists start their own soup kitchen. What's keeping them?



{stamping foot, arms crossed, pouting, whiny teenager voice} But starting your own soup kitchen is HAAAAAAAARD! I want THEIR soup kitchen.


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## Laura Zone 5 (Jan 13, 2010)

DEKE01 said:


> {stamping foot, arms crossed, pouting, whiny teenager voice} But starting your own soup kitchen is HAAAAAAAARD! I want THEIR soup kitchen.


A+++ on the visual aid.:thumb::thumb:

And no, they don't want the soup kitchen, or anything to do with feeding other human beings.
They got what they wanted. 
Their 15 min of fame.

When people stop living by labels and just BE human beings and just DO the right thing.....we will have less threads on boards like this to contribute too.:hammer:


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## SeanInVa (Oct 3, 2013)

DEKE01 said:


> {stamping foot, arms crossed, pouting, whiny teenager voice} But starting your own soup kitchen is HAAAAAAAARD! I want THEIR soup kitchen.


They don't get the benefits a church does. Like automatic and instant 501c3 status or a weekly pool of donations from people who were directed by a higher power to turn over ten percent of their paychecks. It takes time and money for non religious non profits.

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## arabian knight (Dec 19, 2005)

So? They are NOT a church that is why. No big deal. They still can set up some kind of food bank. Have them do it themselves and push their aged to those that want it. But don't come to a Christian Church and try the same thing. It win;t gonna work.


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## DEKE01 (Jul 17, 2013)

SeanInVa said:


> They don't get the benefits a church does. Like automatic and instant 501c3 status or a weekly pool of donations from people who were directed by a higher power to turn over ten percent of their paychecks. It takes time and money for non religious non profits.
> 
> Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk


So now treading on the 20 year history of the soup kitchen is not enough. You also envy the 2000 year Christian history and ?5000? year Jewish history? 

Go back and read the message from the foot stomping teenager. It is hard work. When other people do the hard work, it belongs to them.


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## SeanInVa (Oct 3, 2013)

DEKE01 said:


> So now treading on the 20 year history of the soup kitchen is not enough. You also envy the 2000 year Christian history and ?5000? year Jewish history?
> 
> Go back and read the message from the foot stomping teenager. It is hard work. When other people do the hard work, it belongs to them.


No. I am simply pointing out it's much easier for a church to do this than it is for a non religious group. That's all. 

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## Tiempo (May 22, 2008)

> It is hard work. When other people do the hard work, it belongs to them.


Do you realize how utterly absurd this sounds in the context of feeding the hungry?

Why on earth does it matter as long as empty bellies are filled?

And some Christians wonder why people are walking away from the church in droves...SMH.


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## JeffreyD (Dec 27, 2006)

Tiempo said:


> Do you realize how utterly absurd this sounds in the context of feeding the hungry?
> 
> Why on earth does it matter as long as empty bellies are filled?
> 
> And some Christians wonder why people are walking away from the church in droves...SMH.


In droves? Cite please!


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## DEKE01 (Jul 17, 2013)

Tiempo said:


> Do you realize how utterly absurd this sounds in the context of feeding the hungry?
> 
> Why on earth does it matter as long as empty bellies are filled?
> 
> And some Christians wonder why people are walking away from the church in droves...SMH.


once again you have to ignore the published mission of that soup kitchen in order to make your point. They are also trying to feed the souls of those hungry people. Atheists may think that is meaningless or downright stupid, but they don't get to decide how a church should run the church.


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## Annsni (Oct 27, 2006)

JeffreyD said:


> In droves? Cite please!


And that these droves are leaving because churches won't partner with athiests.


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## DEKE01 (Jul 17, 2013)

SeanInVa said:


> No. I am simply pointing out it's much easier for a church to do this than it is for a non religious group. That's all.
> 
> Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk


I am on the board of a charitable group and my wife is on another one, neither are religious based. One of the groups has raised millions and the other has raised hundreds of thousands. It can be done if you can convince people your cause is worthy. 

There are non-religious food kitchens in my wife's hometown, I know this because my family volunteers there. They coordinate with the religious based ones so that 6 nights a week, the poor get fed and which ever group has the 6th night gives out box dinners for the next day. It can be done. 

And no one guaranteed you equal outcomes. The atheists have their work cut out for them if they choose to try.


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## DEKE01 (Jul 17, 2013)

JeffreyD said:


> In droves? Cite please!


I think it is one of those Korean cars.


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## Tiempo (May 22, 2008)

http://www.theblaze.com/stories/201...s-are-leaving-church-and-christianity-behind/


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## NickieL (Jun 15, 2007)

Tiempo said:


> http://www.theblaze.com/stories/201...s-are-leaving-church-and-christianity-behind/



I was dragged to church at a young age. Fought very hard against it. Hated church. I knew even as a small child it wasn't for me. That same person who dragged me to church also hated gays, different races, different religions and never volunteered to help anyone. She claimed to be Christian. Hypocrisy is a huge turn off. I know many who are wonderful... I don't look at someone's religion, only their heart. 


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## Molly Mckee (Jul 8, 2006)

The 501-3c is available to any charity. The atheists have every right to it, as well to donate food and ask for donations. I doubt they were looking to feed people, just wanted publicity.


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## SeanInVa (Oct 3, 2013)

Molly Mckee said:


> The 501-3c is available to any charity. The atheists have every right to it, as well to donate food and ask for donations. I doubt they were looking to feed people, just wanted publicity.


They offered money when their help was turned down. That was also denied. Seems this bigot doesn't want anything from those evil atheists. That's her right. She's still a bigot.

As for the 501c3 churches don't have to file. They get the benefits instantly. Everyone else has to file. And wait. And pay. Hard to raise money while waiting for the app.

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## SeanInVa (Oct 3, 2013)

Deleted sorry phone acting up


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## Tabitha (Apr 10, 2006)

Acts 5:29
Obey God rather than man

Psalm 14:1
the fools says in his heart, there is no God
etc., etc., etc.,

so you call her names, she is a bigot because you do not agree with her. But to her an atheist is an enemy of God. She wants to be loyal to God and not associate with those who deny him. 

She could be as right as you are, or maybe you could be as wrong as she is. How do you know? She has an authority to back her up. She is trying to be faithful. She is feeding the hungry. She will feed one of those atheists if he is hungry. The Lord nowhere says she needs to accommodate the unbeliever otherwise. ( 2.Cor. 6:14 be not yoked together with unbelievers). do you want to be yoked together with unbelievers? You are even picking on this poor old lady who is feeding the hungry. You can not accept her the way she is and want her to be the way you want her to be. Very tolerant of you. You just holler how bad those Christians are because they do not endorse what is clearly condemned in their holy book. 
I am not a church goer. Not associated with a group. My experience, it is Christians who do the most good when it comes down to brass tacks. They do not claim to be perfect, they admit they are sinners. Not everybody can be as perfect as you. 
Excuse me for getting a tad touchy. Picking on Christians all the time, strikes me as selfrighteous. 

As an aside, I remember how Ron Paul was targeted because he had gotten donations from a right wing group. They were aghast. They wanted him to return the money. He said no, it was already spent. 

BTW, if I was the lady, and an atheist was offering me money to feed the hungry, no strings attached, I would say thank you and take it.


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## Annsni (Oct 27, 2006)

SeanInVa said:


> They offered money when their help was turned down. That was also denied. Seems this bigot doesn't want anything from those evil atheists. That's her right. She's still a bigot.


A bigot because she didn't accept help from an organization that is foundationally opposed to the basic beliefs she had? And knowing that they had asked to help for publicity reasons? Incredible.



> As for the 501c3 churches don't have to file. They get the benefits instantly. Everyone else has to file. And wait. And pay. Hard to raise money while waiting for the app.


So? Then wait. It doesn't take that long. I've worked for non-profits for all my working career and it's only recently that I worked for a church. All of the others applied. Why can't they?


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## SeanInVa (Oct 3, 2013)

Annsni said:


> A bigot because she didn't accept help from an organization that is foundationally opposed to the basic beliefs she had? And knowing that they had asked to help for publicity reasons? Incredible.


No. A bigot because she seems to think of atheists as less than human.




> So? Then wait. It doesn't take that long. I've worked for non-profits for all my working career and it's only recently that I worked for a church. All of the others applied. Why can't they?


They certainly can. Maybe they are getting some experience and seeing if this is something they really want to commit to. I admit this is a weaker argument. 




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## SeanInVa (Oct 3, 2013)

Tabitha said:


> You can not accept her the way she is and want her to be the way you want her to be. Very tolerant of you.


Oh that poor woman who can't accept those atheists as they are and want them to be the way she wants them to be. Very tolerant of her.

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## kasilofhome (Feb 10, 2005)

Somehow it is hard to blend a christian themed ministry with athicists. I know we live in the days of blurry lines-

Pick you sexual identiy for the day
Swing your spouce round and round and on to the next
A lie can be classifed as the truth if spoken by the President
Free health care is expensive
Lack of health insurances prevent health care---mandated health insurance creates a lack of medical care provides thus creates a further reduction of health care at a greater cost.
AND my all time fav-------Spend yourself out of debt.

So, I have no problem with the management maintaing the right to say NO. In doing so she just prevented a possidable lawsuit---exposing the athiest to pray, hymns, crosses which might have caused the athiest such harm as to need mental care for the emotional abuse--of hearing about God.

Christians and the social customs and tenants are being tested in the courts to erraticate the christian culture. There is a daily demand to remove crosses, to remove syblems, to cut songs that have true attachments to Holidays.

Merry Christmas early.


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## farmrbrown (Jun 25, 2012)

That's another good point I hadn't thought of, which is why I posted earlier about wisdom and discernment.
As I said there have been a few lawsuits and legal actions involving atheists and some of the local SC authorities, from schools to council meetings and others.
A serpent can find a way in thru a small hole (i.e. legal loophole).


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## DEKE01 (Jul 17, 2013)

SeanInVa said:


> No. A bigot because she seems to think of atheists as less than human.


She hasn't said that or acted that way that I can see. But if she meets your definition of a bigot because of how she feels about atheists, what does that make you? Remember, her intolerance is towards their beliefs, not their actions.


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## SeanInVa (Oct 3, 2013)

DEKE01 said:


> She hasn't said that or acted that way that I can see. But if she meets your definition of a bigot because of how she feels about atheists, what does that make you? Remember, her intolerance is towards their beliefs, not their actions.


She meets the Oxford Dictionary's definition of the word:



> bigoted
> Pronunciation: /&#712;b&#618;g&#601;t&#618;d/
> Translate bigoted | into French | into German | into Italian
> adjective
> ...





> bigot
> Pronunciation: /&#712;b&#618;g&#601;t/
> Translate bigot | into German | into Italian | into Spanish
> noun
> ...


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## farmrbrown (Jun 25, 2012)

When using the definition of a word, I find that researching the etymology is very educational and enlightening.
The word "bigot", by God.


Etymology[edit]

The origin of the word bigot and bigoterie (bigotry) in English dates back to at least 1598, via Middle French, and started with the sense of "religious hypocrite". This meaning still survives in Italian, in the cognate word bigotto The exact origin of the word is unknown, but it may have come from the German bei and Gott, or the English by God.
William Camden wrote that the Normans were first called bigots, when their Duke Rollo, who when receiving Gisla, daughter of King Charles, in marriage, and with her the investiture of the dukedom, refused to kiss the king's foot in token of subjection &#8211; unless the king would hold it out for that specific purpose. When being urged to do it by those present, Rollo answered hastily "No, by God", whereupon the King, turning about, called him bigot, which then passed from him to his people.[2] This is quite probably fictional,[citation needed] as Gisla is unknown in Frankish sources. It is true, however, that the French used the term bigot to abuse the Normans.[3]


"Don't Fall for Enemy Propaganda", 1941 - 1945
The twelfth-century Norman author Wace claimed that bigot was an insult which the French used against the Normans, but it is unclear whether or not this is how it entered the English language.[4]
The French used to call the English les goddams after their favorite curse; ClÃ©ment Janequin's "La Guerre",[5] which is about the Battle of Marignano, similarly uses the Swiss German curse 'bigot', i.e. "by god!", in a context about the Protestant Swiss.
According to Henry Bradley, the meaning of bigot in the Old French was "detested foreigner", "heretic", and it is supposed that the word was a corruption of Visigot. To the Catholic Franks, the Visigoths of Southern France and Spain were the objects of bitter hatred, both on religious and worldly grounds.[6]


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## DEKE01 (Jul 17, 2013)

SeanInVa said:


> She meets the Oxford Dictionary's definition of the word:


Well done. Personally I try to reserve the term bigot for those who try to harm others with their bigoted beliefs, but maybe that's my own spin. Going by the definition you posted, why are you not a bigot as well? Do you not firmly believe your position is superior to hers? Are you not expressing an intolerance of her position? Other definitions of bigot specifically mention intolerance and contempt for religious beliefs. While our Soup lady is clearly intolerant of atheists, are you not expressing contempt for her religious views?


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## SeanInVa (Oct 3, 2013)

DEKE01 said:


> Well done. Personally I try to reserve the term bigot for those who try to harm others with their bigoted beliefs, but maybe that's my own spin. Going by the definition you posted, why are you not a bigot as well? Do you not firmly believe your position is superior to hers? Are you not expressing an intolerance of her position?


No. Elsewhere in this thread I have stated her refusing assistance was well within her right. She could have left out all the talk of atheists being of the devil though. I an technically a Christian as I have at one time accepted Jesus as my lord and savior and was baptised in my church. I do know just a little about Jesus' teachings. I have no issues with her beliefs. She is free to have them. I am well aware that religion is a deeply personal thing and nobody can be forced to believe something.

But she is still a bigot. You can't use your religion as an excuse for hate. We've been down that road and many extremist Muslims are going down that road now.

There are plenty of atheist bigots as well. I'm not trying to say they are without fault. However in this specific instance I have not seen one report of this atheist group being disrespectful to where that kind of sentiment needed to be voiced.

It's amazing how when a Christian rebukes someone or something its just their religion but when a non Christian does the same it's a "attack". Ridiculous.



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## DEKE01 (Jul 17, 2013)

SeanInVa said:


> No. Elsewhere in this thread I have stated her refusing assistance was well within her right. She could have left out all the talk of atheists being of the devil though. I an technically a Christian as I have at one time accepted Jesus as my lord and savior and was baptised in my church. I do know just a little about Jesus' teachings. I have no issues with her beliefs. She is free to have them. I am well aware that religion is a deeply personal thing and nobody can be forced to believe something.
> 
> But she is still a bigot. You can't use your religion as an excuse for hate. We've been down that road and many extremist Muslims are going down that road now.
> 
> ...


If she is a bigot, according to your definition you are a bigot. She will tolerate the atheists doing their thing elsewhere, just not in her church. She invited them to do a soup kitchen across the street. She is just as tolerant of them as you are of her. She thinks her position to be morally superior, just as you believe yours to be so. I'm making every effort not to call you a bigot, because I don't think you are, except by the standard you have created. 

If soup lady tried to harm the atheists in any way, I would agree she is a bigot. Let's face it, you really can't be a Christian (using traditional definitions) or Muslim or probably lots of other religions without thinking that your beliefs are morally superior.


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## Liberty'sGirl (Jul 7, 2012)

The mission statement of the soup kitchen states that everything is done to serve God and everyone who serve in the kitchen is to, you guessed it, TO SERVE GOD. I can see where the kitchen does not want those of a different faith, even a non-faith, to work in their church/kitchen. It is the church's choice, they should not be obligated to allow a group which goes against the church's beliefs to work in the kitchen. The atheist group should have taken the "no" answer and then shut up about it. They can go elsewhere and start a We Don't Believe in God kitchen.

In a way atheism is a competing business. Even money from the atheists probably had invisible strings attached.

Annsni has it right.


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## unregistered41671 (Dec 29, 2009)

Liberty'sGirl said:


> The mission statement of the soup kitchen states that everything is done to serve God and everyone who serve in the kitchen is to, you guessed it, TO SERVE GOD. I can see where the kitchen does not want those of a different faith, even a non-faith, to work in their church/kitchen. It is the church's choice, they should not be obligated to allow a group which goes against the church's beliefs to work in the kitchen. The atheist group should have taken the "no" answer and then shut up about it. They can go elsewhere and start a We Don't Believe in God kitchen.
> 
> In a way atheism is a competing business.
> 
> Anesi has it right.


Well said and correct, LG.:rock:


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## arabian knight (Dec 19, 2005)

Liberty'sGirl said:


> The mission statement of the soup kitchen states that everything is done to serve God and everyone who serve in the kitchen is to, you guessed it, TO SERVE GOD. I can see where the kitchen does not want those of a different faith, even a non-faith, to work in their church/kitchen. It is the church's choice, they should not be obligated to allow a group which goes against the church's beliefs to work in the kitchen. The atheist group should have taken the "no" answer and then shut up about it. They can go elsewhere and start a We Don't Believe in God kitchen.
> 
> In a way atheism is a competing business. Even money from the atheists probably had invisible strings attached.
> 
> Annsni has it right.


 Very good. If these that do not believe in God want to do good let them. But they do it by themselves not in a Christian Church, that people DO believe there is a God. The Christians do, so why not those others do the same, since they they believe is completely the opposite of the Christian Churches teachings.


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## SeanInVa (Oct 3, 2013)

DEKE01 said:


> If she is a bigot, according to your definition you are a bigot. She will tolerate the atheists doing their thing elsewhere, just not in her church. She invited them to do a soup kitchen across the street. She is just as tolerant of them as you are of her. She thinks her position to be morally superior, just as you believe yours to be so. I'm making every effort not to call you a bigot, because I don't think you are, except by the standard you have created.
> 
> If soup lady tried to harm the atheists in any way, I would agree she is a bigot. Let's face it, you really can't be a Christian (using traditional definitions) or Muslim or probably lots of other religions without thinking that your beliefs are morally superior.


I mostly agree with all that you wrote here. The biggest difference between her and myself would be that I would not refuse help because of someone's religion or lack thereof. Could I be labeled a bigot as well? Maybe I could. But again, I would welcome her help with open arms if I were running a soup kitchen - the same as I would welcome the help of the atheists. Which is a stark contrast with her actions.

And really, everyone thinks their particular brand of morals or beliefs are superior - otherwise they would believe something else.


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## DEKE01 (Jul 17, 2013)

SeanInVa said:


> I mostly agree with all that you wrote here. The biggest difference between her and myself would be that I would not refuse help because of someone's religion or lack thereof. Could I be labeled a bigot as well? Maybe I could. But again, I would welcome her help with open arms if I were running a soup kitchen - the same as I would welcome the help of the atheists. Which is a stark contrast with her actions.
> 
> And really, everyone thinks their particular brand of morals or beliefs are superior - otherwise they would believe something else.


And once again, I'll point out that she is not just running a soup kitchen. Would you expect her to also allow the atheists to serve communion? Because to her (I assume because of her words and that is what the church of my youth did) this is not just serving food, it is an attempt to lead people to Christ. 

Without the soul serving aspect for the soup kitchen, I would agree with you. My family recently spent two weeks of vacation donating our time to raise money for a Children's hospital. 2000 people gave varying amounts of their time and raised over $500K. My MIL and FIL gave probably 300 hours a piece helping organize the event, DW and DD gave 80+ hours and me much less because I'm a slacker. Not to brag (OK, just a little) but I'm proud of the small part we played in all that and glad my daughter got to be a part of it. 

Had they made me prove my religious, political, or whatever beliefs were OK by the hospital administrator, I would have told them to pound sand. We had no contact with the kids so there was no danger of us harming or polluting the kids. If we had been giving our time in the hospital with the kids for that many hours, I would have expected them to make me prove I wasn't going to make them physically sicker than they already are, that I was not pushing some counter agenda, that I'm not a perv, etc. See the difference? The atheists wanted to have, by analogy, contact with the sick kids.


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## Patchouli (Aug 3, 2011)

Laura Zone 5 said:


> A+++ on the visual aid.:thumb::thumb:
> 
> And no, they don't want the soup kitchen, or anything to do with feeding other human beings.
> They got what they wanted.
> ...


I find it fascinating that you are okay with completely mischaracterizing and even defaming these people when ample proof has been linked here to show that this Atheist group not only does plenty of charitable work they also were perfectly willing to work anonymously. 

Maybe the real problem is not them living by their labels maybe it is people labeling them and then refusing to look at the truth about them and instead spreading lies and assumptions and hate.


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## kasilofhome (Feb 10, 2005)

The christian group is simply following thier faith---they do not with to be unequally yoked.


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## DEKE01 (Jul 17, 2013)

Patchouli said:


> they also were perfectly willing to work anonymously.
> 
> Maybe the real problem is not them living by their labels maybe it is people labeling them and then refusing to look at the truth about them and instead spreading lies and assumptions and hate.


The soup lady did not know they would do it anonymously and neither do you. Since they were not willing to not work anonymously, your statement is dubious. 

And there you go shouting hate again just because someone disagrees with you. Perhaps there is someone here with hate in their heart and it is for anyone who dares not toe the liberal line.


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## Patchouli (Aug 3, 2011)

DEKE01 said:


> The soup lady did not know they would do it anonymously and neither do you. Since they were not willing to not work anonymously, your statement is dubious.
> 
> And there you go shouting hate again just because someone disagrees with you. Perhaps there is someone here with hate in their heart and it is for anyone who dares not toe the liberal line.


They told her that they would work anonymously. Again the information has been linked here for you. You are choosing to ignore the information that does not suit your worldview.


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## DEKE01 (Jul 17, 2013)

Patchouli said:


> They told her that they would work anonymously. Again the information has been linked here for you. You are choosing to ignore the information that does not suit your worldview.


You are ignoring that it is a church and that at best we are depending on the word of the someone who sought publicity that they would not seek publicity.


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## Patchouli (Aug 3, 2011)

DEKE01 said:


> You are ignoring that it is a church and that at best we are depending on the word of the someone who sought publicity that they would not seek publicity.


Well except it's not a Church. It's an interdenominational group.  And we don't actually know how the story got to the press do we?


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## kasilofhome (Feb 10, 2005)

Sorry but non denonminational do have churches--I belong to one my son belongs to three.

I know that it might be hard to think that different denominations who are neighbors and friends can join together to worship and attend at the same time the same building and work around difference --we have three that speak in tonges and are respected we have those who refuse wine --when I kneel no one minds--

so a church is not the building but a body --group of believes in God, the son and the holy ghost--/spirit. Lables do not matter.


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## DEKE01 (Jul 17, 2013)

Patchouli said:


> Well except it's not a Church. It's an interdenominational group.  And we don't actually know how the story got to the press do we?


They are interdenominational, but that doesn't mean they are not a church. They may not be in a church building, but based on their website, it sure sounds like they are an organization of religious believers and that fits the definition of a church. Here is their mission, note they say they are a ministry, church-like, yes? 

Our Mission

We seek to serve the poor and homeless of our community 

by sharing the love of God and giving them:

Food for Their Bodies,

Kindness for Their Souls, &

Hope for the Future.

The Spartanburg Soup Kitchen is an inter-denominational, inter-faith ministry, made up of a partnership of various individuals and organizations across the Upstate. We share a common belief that when we serve those in need, we serve God.


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## kasilofhome (Feb 10, 2005)

Outsiders of a faith seem to want to set the ways and beliefs when it would be better if they let those living the life to explain it ----as they have with their mission statment--

Outsiders are trying hard to crush christianity because it offends them---There are many churchs to work with--but churches that have NOT supported "moral changes" tend to get alot of interest --(law suits count as interest) from those who support moral changes.

Just as there are cake shops, photographers, wedding venues and out reach programs that have stricter morality rules there are many that have no objection to the moral changes--yet it is the groups with wish to maintain the ways and not change that get so so many of these political-social attacks to attempts to derail the culture of the group.---That in its self is truly a hate crime from those who choice not to live in harmony with people of differences--

Yes, there is Westboro but are there any complaints were christian folks are demanding that those who do not follow the tenents of thier beliefs be charged with discrimination.

I know many Jews---I lived with many who had two dishwashers two fridges two sets of dishes, silverware-blenders ect.

in keeping kosher they knew where to eat--never have we heard of a Jew demanding Mc'Ds to have kitchens set up kosher style-- (cheese & meat--on the same grill--using the same utinsels washed in the same dishwasher ect) why because the know to take care of thier religous needs and not demand others bend over to please them. Yes, traveling with some Jewish people shows just how responcible they have to be---OH-----------------that nasty word RESPONCIBLE---for the Jewish folks I knew they felt and express that the "slight troubles it is for them to maintain the commands from God reminded them to be greatfull for all he has given them>

Totally different heart.


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## unregistered41671 (Dec 29, 2009)

Patchouli said:


> instead spreading lies and assumptions and hate.





DEKE01 said:


> T
> 
> And there you go shouting hate again just because someone disagrees with you. Perhaps there is someone here with hate in their heart and it is for anyone who dares not toe the liberal line.


I think that in order to be called a liberal, there must be some type of initiation. Maybe they have to use that hate word so many times per day in order to claim the title of lib. They can not be shown the secret handshake until they qualify.


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## farmrbrown (Jun 25, 2012)

Patchouli said:


> Well except it's not a Church. It's an interdenominational group.  And we don't actually know how the story got to the press do we?



No we don't actually know how it got to the press.
Give me a few days and I'll see if I can find out.
The odds of this being a coincidental passing by of the reporter on this event are pretty slim. Most reporters wouldn't have any reason to know it took place (the rebuff of the atheists) or any reason to report it unless someone called them or it was a local topic already, on social media for instance.

I think I tracked down the original reporter, he works for the Spartanburg Herald. As I was reading links and checking earliest times and dates (I think it was published around 4:30 pm Oct 23) ........I found this interesting tidbit.
If someone cares to backtrack some more, feel free.
But apparently, this incident about being turned away from the soup kitchen happened 6 months ago, according to the member of the group.
They decided to hand out the care packages across the street from the soup kitchen just last week. 
It was then that the woman was asked about it and she made her comments when asked by the reporter.
Coincidence?
An innocent, kind act, or a premeditated set up?

http://www.sott.net/article/267945-...-they-would-be-a-disservice-to-this-community


Original report ( I think)
http://www.goupstate.com/article/20...rg-Soup-Kitchen-turns-away-atheist-volunteers


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## Patchouli (Aug 3, 2011)

farmrbrown said:


> No we don't actually know how it got to the press.
> Give me a few days and I'll see if I can find out.
> The odds of this being a coincidental passing by of the reporter on this event are pretty slim. Most reporters wouldn't have any reason to know it took place (the rebuff of the atheists) or any reason to report it unless someone called them or it was a local topic already, on social media for instance.
> 
> ...


From your first article: "The atheists then decided they would help people in a different way. They would get a permit from the city, create care packages for the homeless, and give them away across the street from the soup kitchen."

2 obvious points: it may have taken awhile to get the permit and collect the stuff for the packages (300 care packages from your second link)which explains the delay. Second any good reporter would check on things like permits to see if there was anything interesting coming up.


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## Patchouli (Aug 3, 2011)

DEKE01 said:


> They are interdenominational, but that doesn't mean they are not a church. They may not be in a church building, but based on their website, it sure sounds like they are an organization of religious believers and that fits the definition of a church. Here is their mission, note they say they are a ministry, church-like, yes?
> 
> Our Mission
> 
> ...


Do you know what inter-faith means? It means people of different religions. Kinda hard to call it a Church if it has Jews or Buddhists or actual people of other faiths don't you think?


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## JeffreyD (Dec 27, 2006)

Patchouli said:


> From your first article: "The atheists then decided they would help people in a different way. They would get a permit from the city, create care packages for the homeless, and give them away across the street from the soup kitchen."
> 
> 2 obvious points: it may have taken awhile to get the permit and collect the stuff for the packages (300 care packages from your second link)which explains the delay. Second any good reporter would check on things like permits to see if there was anything interesting coming up.


Why across the street?


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## farmrbrown (Jun 25, 2012)

Uh huh.
Did ya catch this link in the first story? The one that posted a few hours after the reporter's?

http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friend...-have-found-another-way-to-help-the-homeless/

A reference of the same story being blogged about on August 16th.
Like I said, I'll call the reporter and see what he has to say.


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## JeffreyD (Dec 27, 2006)

Patchouli said:


> Do you know what inter-faith means? It means people of different religions. Kinda hard to call it a Church if it has Jews or Buddhists or actual people of other faiths don't you think?


Their still called churches around here! Just saying. Few call them houses of worship.


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## farmrbrown (Jun 25, 2012)

JeffreyD said:


> Why across the street?


I bet I know the answer to this one!

"It was probably the only place the permit allowed.":whistlin:


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## Patchouli (Aug 3, 2011)

JeffreyD said:


> Their still called churches around here! Just saying. Few call them houses of worship.


Really? Most Jews and Buddhists worship in Temples. You must be a Universalist? They are the only ones that I know of that have people of other faiths in their churches.


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## Patchouli (Aug 3, 2011)

JeffreyD said:


> Why across the street?


For the same reason I help the homeless people by handing out care packages across the street from the Salvation Army's soup kitchen: it's the easiest way to find them.


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## JeffreyD (Dec 27, 2006)

farmrbrown said:


> Uh huh.
> Did ya catch this link in the first story? The one that posted a few hours after the reporter's?
> 
> http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friend...-have-found-another-way-to-help-the-homeless/
> ...


Anyone read any of the comments? You should.....they speak for themselves!


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## kasilofhome (Feb 10, 2005)

Yep--church--a body of believers working for God. Jews and christian both follow the same God--I have been involed with a few church groups with the Jewish people doing on part and the christians doing another part.---Easter would not be Easter without the celebration of a Seder meal.


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## JeffreyD (Dec 27, 2006)

Patchouli said:


> Really? Most Jews and Buddhists worship in Temples. You must be a Universalist? They are the only ones that I know of that have people of other faiths in their churches.


Sorry, I don't go to a church. I know lots that do. And being in Los Angeles, I know folks from many different denominations. They still call them churches.


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## JeffreyD (Dec 27, 2006)

Patchouli said:


> For the same reason I help the homeless people by handing out care packages across the street from the Salvation Army's soup kitchen: it's the easiest way to find them.


Was this kitchen in a area of poverty? Does that kitchen promote themselves at that location? Seems like this atheist group wanted to take advantage of a captive audience. Why couldn't you do it at the SA, or in front on public property?


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## farmrbrown (Jun 25, 2012)

We are currently the #4 story on HLNTV.com!


Comment from their facebook page.


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## DEKE01 (Jul 17, 2013)

Patchouli said:


> Do you know what inter-faith means? It means people of different religions. Kinda hard to call it a Church if it has Jews or Buddhists or actual people of other faiths don't you think?


No, I disagree. But no matter, you can have that one, it is not a church. However, did you happen to notice the two mentions of the word God in their mission? Do you think the there-in-no-god crew would have helped further that mission? 

And based on what we now know, why do you think the atheists set up across the street from the soup lady if they were not seeking publicity? 

Your story is getting thinner and thinner.


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## City Bound (Jan 24, 2009)

I did not think this thread would still be going on. Has it degenerated into a shouting match and name calling yet?


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## MJsLady (Aug 16, 2006)

[FONT=&quot]What I keep seeing repeatedly throughout this post is this.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Christians and their supporters are saying we do not care if the atheists set up a food kitchen or pass out blankets or whatever. However since their message is directly opposed to ours we will not help them do it. Nor do we desire their help to promote our message. [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]What the atheist supporters are saying is Christians are bigots. They donât want the atheists to show how good they are. They wonât let them do whatever in their building, even if they say they wonât do anything against the Christians. The atheist does not wish to jump through the hoops needed to begin a good work of their own and the Christians need to back down and let them in on their good work. Plus because this one lady let her tongue run loose ALL Christians are really black hearted and do not care if the poor get helped. [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]The atheists are the ones who blew this up by going to the media with it. The Christians just want to be left alone and go on quietly doing their work as we are commanded by OUR Lord to do. We do not care what others do as long as WE do what WE are commanded to do and we just want to be left alone to do it. [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Are there some militant Christians out there who are bigots and mean and so on. Yes onlyâ¦ according to the gospel they are not truly Christians at all because they do not have the fruits of the Spirit a Christian will have. They are the ones who will go to Christ and say did we not cast out demons in your name? Did we not do this and that for you and Christ will say go away from me, I never knew you. [/FONT]


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## City Bound (Jan 24, 2009)

Yes, most want to help those in need and in a simple way it boggles most minds as to why one group who hands out food would reject another group that hands out food from offering help because on the surface their goals appear the same, but...........

Atheists want to feed the body (or at best the individual's mind) while spiritualist want to feed the person's soul. Atheists don't believe in souls, so how can they feed them? Christians want to offer hope, salvation, and a relationship with god. Atheists do not believe in god, so how can they offer an invitation to enter into a relationship with god? Conflict of interest.


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## MJsLady (Aug 16, 2006)

City, it isn't mind boggling when you understand fully the place from which the Christians are helping. 

They are doing it in service to the God the atheists deny. 

God does not want the service of those who do not believe in him. He tells his people that if those who do not believe do not listen, then walk away and have NOTHING to do with them. 

So from that perspective the Christians can not accept the atheist's help even if they wanted to because their Lord commanded them not to have anything to do with them because they reject Him who they serve.


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## Laura Zone 5 (Jan 13, 2010)

I disagree.
God loves every single human.
God has a plan, for every single human.
i do not presume to know The Mind of God.
How do *I* know what God has planned for another human?

Saul/Paul MURDERED Christians......
Moses MURDERED an Egyptian.
I could go on.

Our enemy is not flesh and blood...but he is unseen, and very busy.
And he will use who ever is available. 
No matter what they 'profess'.


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## wyld thang (Nov 16, 2005)

MJsLady said:


> City, it isn't mind boggling when you understand fully the place from which the Christians are helping.
> 
> They are doing it in service to the God the atheists deny.
> 
> ...


dang, I need to rethink things...guess I'm going straight to hell for serving up compassion alongside buddhists and wiccans and whatnot. ok, I thought about it. guess I'm still gonna go straight to "hell".

wow.


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## wyld thang (Nov 16, 2005)

One more thing, if y'all would actually talk to "them" you'd find out that it's not about rejecting Jesus, but that the emporer has no clothes.


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## DEKE01 (Jul 17, 2013)

wyld thang said:


> One more thing, if y'all would actually talk to "them" you'd find out that it's not about rejecting Jesus, but that the emporer has no clothes.


You may be right, but why the put down of someone else's beliefs? If what the soup lady did wrong was her put down of the atheists, how is it any better to put down Christians? 

I both respect to a degree and disagree to a degree with every faith. They all do good things and give joy and comfort to those that believe. I can't imagine why anyone would want to put down the religious beliefs of others - until of course those beliefs harm others in a meaningful way.


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## City Bound (Jan 24, 2009)

God the father hates sinners, Christ the son forgives sinners. God the father kills and is jealous, Christ the son is a gentle yoke who served the servants.

Depends on which god you follow. It can get confusing. One god, who is somehow the same person as the other god, forgives sins and the other brutalizes transgressors. One demands sacrifice and the other offers himself as a sacrifice.

It is still confusing if the Judeo-Christian god is loving or not.

Does god love and forgive atheist? The old testament god would not but the new testament god would. So, I guess it is 50/50 whether they would be loved and forgiven.


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## Annsni (Oct 27, 2006)

City Bound said:


> God the father hates sinners, Christ the son forgives sinners. God the father kills and is jealous, Christ the son is a gentle yoke who served the servants.
> 
> Depends on which god you follow. It can get confusing. One god, who is somehow the same person as the other god, forgives sins and the other brutalizes transgressors. One demands sacrifice and the other offers himself as a sacrifice.
> 
> ...


See, God the Father and Jesus Christ are both God. I follow both. We need to understand the justice of God along with His mercy as well. The punishment for sin is death. But Jesus gave us a way out - a payment for those sins. HE died the death we deserved. It is available to all who believe on Him. 

The New Testament God forgives no one who sins without the blood of the Lamb of God. By definition, an atheist will never be saved because they don't believe on Jesus Christ. Old Testament or New Testament - it doesn't matter.


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## Paumon (Jul 12, 2007)

MJsLady said:


> City, it isn't mind boggling when you understand fully the place from which the Christians are helping.
> 
> They are doing it in service to the God the atheists deny.
> 
> ...


Okay, let me get this straight. They are not doing it out of compassion and love for other people in need, they're only doing it as a show of service and love to God???

That doesn't sound right to me. It sounds insincere and confused about motives. 

What if the needy people who are receiving help are non-believers? Shouldn't those needy also be ignored and not receive any help and not have anything to do with them because those needy are not believers and God isn't interested in non-believers? 

Why even bother trying to do good things for needy people if the only motivation to do so is to show service to God? Surely there must be other things they can do to show a more sincere form of service to God and not have to sully themselves by associating with non-believers.

Honestly, I don't think that's what good Christians believe though. I think good Christians help other people because they're good-hearted, compassionate people who care about and associate with everyone without discrimination for other people's religious beliefs and not only as a show of service to God.


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## Paumon (Jul 12, 2007)

Oh, and also, I think the atheists were wrong. If they wanted to help needy people they shouldn't have tried to muscle in on some other belief-group's turf. They should have gone and been helpful somewhere else and be known for the good they do on their own merits, not by riding on the hem of somebody else's coat tails.


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## DEKE01 (Jul 17, 2013)

OK, this thread has not run completely off the rails. I'm done


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## unregistered5595 (Mar 3, 2003)

DEKE01 said:


> OK, this thread has not run completely off the rails. I'm done


Was that your aim and you weren't successful? Just wondering.


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## unregistered5595 (Mar 3, 2003)

Paumon said:


> Oh, and also, I think the atheists were wrong. If they wanted to help needy people they shouldn't have tried to muscle in on some other belief-group's turf. They should have gone and been helpful somewhere else and be known for the good they do on their own merits, not by riding on the hem of somebody else's coat tails.


Essentially, people that have different spiritual beliefs shouldn't try to help anyone of different spiritual beliefs? 
The atheists asked and were turned down from helping the Christians, so after that they decided to make and give away care packages--just like many of the things they've done in the past for those in need.
I'm sorry, I disagree. I think they wanted to help feed the hungry and I don't see how that is wrong.


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## Annsni (Oct 27, 2006)

Feather In The Breeze said:


> Essentially, people that have different spiritual beliefs shouldn't try to help anyone of different spiritual beliefs?
> The atheists asked and were turned down from helping the Christians, so after that they decided to make and give away care packages--just like many of the things they've done in the past for those in need.
> I'm sorry, I disagree. I think they wanted to help feed the hungry and I don't see how that is wrong.


There is absolutely nothing with them wanting to feed the hungry. It was wrong, however, for them to make a big deal of a Christian group not accepting their help. As I said earlier, a Christian group has a multiple agenda - to feed the body AND soul. They give the Gospel to the people there and so having those who are antagonistic to the Gospel working and representing the church creates a problem. So under the name of that Christian organization, the atheists cannot work. However, as they did, they are more than welcome to do their own work and that is fantastic that they did.


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## NamasteMama (Jul 24, 2009)

Feather In The Breeze said:


> A soup kitchen won't let atheists help. What a sad commentary in today's world.
> http://www.mediaite.com/online/soup-kitchen-invites-everyone-to-volunteer-unless-youre-an-atheist/


 Jesus loved everyone. If you treat someone like that then your no better than the devil himself. JMHO


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## unregistered5595 (Mar 3, 2003)

NamasteMama said:


> Jesus loved everyone. If you treat someone like that then your no better than the devil himself. JMHO


Yes, that's right, and who do the Christians have to teach by example, to minister to, to care for, if not the non-believers.

However, calling anyone, no better than the devil himself, is exactly what the Christian leader called the atheists. That was a disappointment.


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## farmrbrown (Jun 25, 2012)

I think some are confusing telling an atheists to get lost and telling one that wants to come in and work with you to get lost.
Now, the woman just may have blown an opportunity to show them love and minister to them, but on their first request, to show up wearing their atheists T-shirts while serving at a Christian soup kitchen and then to make a publicity stunt out of it months later.....I still say the woman's discernment told her that it was trouble knocking on her door, not time to show Christian compassion.
For all the love that Jesus showed many times, there were a few times when He did not.
The money changers at the Temple come to mind.
Another time, a group of Pharisees tried to entrap Him and He told them their father was the devil.


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## Annsni (Oct 27, 2006)

NamasteMama said:


> Jesus loved everyone. If you treat someone like that then your no better than the devil himself. JMHO


Jesus loved everyone but He didn't treat everyone the same and He clearly called out sin. People were changed in His presence and those who were not left Him, antagonized Him, threatened Him and ultimately killed Him.


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## Annsni (Oct 27, 2006)

Let's also remember that the news is notorious for perfectly accurate reporting. :hysterical: I wonder just how much of the conversation is missing - but just the "juicy" parts were reported?


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## Paumon (Jul 12, 2007)

Feather In The Breeze said:


> Essentially, people that have different spiritual beliefs shouldn't try to help anyone of different spiritual beliefs?
> The atheists asked and were turned down from helping the Christians, so after that they decided to make and give away care packages--just like many of the things they've done in the past for those in need.
> I'm sorry, I disagree. I think they wanted to help feed the hungry and I don't see how that is wrong.


Okay, you and I can disagree with each other and I'm fine with that.

I think that all people of all religious/non-religious beliefs should help everyone of all beliefs. I don't expect it will ever happen though because it's not human nature for everyone of conflicting beliefs to agree to disagree and be cooperative with each other.

As to these 2 particular groups of atheists and christians that are the subject of this topic - well, everyone knows how sensitive both atheists and christians are, nobody knows that better than both atheists and christians I'm sure. It's absolutely ridiculous the way both atheists and christians constantly bicker and go at each other's throats because they're at extreme opposite ends of the pole.

You know what - it drives me crazy and it makes me sick. I would like to take all these competing atheists and christians and shake them upside down and knock their heads together until they're both senseless so that neither one has any inclination to bicker about whether or not to believe in God or if God exists and who does or doesn't have souls and whose god or not-god is better and who's going to heaven or hell.

Arrrrgghhhh! :hair :sob:

Those atheists had to have known that the christians would turn down their offer of help so why even bother to offer? The atheists put the christians on the spot on the christians' own turf - a one time offer no less - and there's no way they could have not recognized ahead of time that they'd be putting the christians on the spot and make them look ungracious for turning down the offer. So I think it was a dirty stunt to pull and I question their motives for offering to assist the christians to assist the needy people on christian turf. 

If the atheists really wanted to help needy people and not just be cocking a snook at christians and show them up as being ungracious by causing them to refuse the offer then the atheists should have helped elsewhere or at a different time of their own accord and own merit without consulting the christians or offering them help and putting them on the spot.

I think it was very nice of the atheists to give out care packages and if they're sincere in their motives then hopefully they will continue the practise on a full time basis so that it will supplement what the christians are doing. Hopefully they will continue the practise on different turf so that it won't appear as though they're trying to carry on a competition with christians over which group can be the best do-gooders.

See, this isn't just about christians and atheists. It's about any 2 groups of people who are at odds with each other, always have been and always will be at odds, and since they're at perpetual odds with each other they should both mind their own business and be do-gooders separately and out of sight from each other.


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## Laura Zone 5 (Jan 13, 2010)

Paumon said:


> See, this isn't just about christians and atheists.
> 
> It's about any 2 groups of people who are at odds with each other, always have been and always will be at odds, and since they're at perpetual odds with each other *they should both mind their own business and be do-gooders separately and out of sight from each other*.


Brilliant!!!!:bow::bow:


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## City Bound (Jan 24, 2009)

Annsni said:


> See, God the Father and Jesus Christ are both God. I follow both. We need to understand the justice of God along with His mercy as well. The punishment for sin is death. But Jesus gave us a way out - a payment for those sins. HE died the death we deserved. It is available to all who believe on Him.
> 
> The New Testament God forgives no one who sins without the blood of the Lamb of God. By definition, an atheist will never be saved because they don't believe on Jesus Christ. Old Testament or New Testament - it doesn't matter.


 
I am not really sure you can call it justice in an egalitarian sense like we americans believe in. If it is justice then it is the kind of justice an autocrat creates in a tyrannical dictatorship. My way or the highway. Jesus may offer a gentle way back into the fold but once you are back in then you have to accept being stuck under someone else's thumb.


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## unregistered5595 (Mar 3, 2003)

Paumon, I don't disagree with everything you said, in fact I agree that in Hind sight, they should now avoid each other. 



> Those atheists had to have known that the christians would turn down their offer of help so why even bother to offer? The atheists put the christians on the spot on the christians' own turf - a one time offer no less - and there's no way they could have not recognized ahead of time that they'd be putting the christians on the spot and make them look ungracious for turning down the offer. So I think it was a dirty stunt to pull and I question their motives for offering to assist the christians to assist the needy people on christian turf.
> 
> If the atheists really wanted to help needy people and not just be cocking a snook at christians and show them up as being ungracious by causing them to refuse the offer then the atheists should have helped elsewhere or at a different time of their own accord and own merit without consulting the christians or offering them help and putting them on the spot.


I disagree with what I underlined above in the post you made.
There is no way to know in advance, before asking, because mind reading doesn't exist. The atheists had successfully worked with other organizations in the past. If the Christian soup kitchen had a reputation for turning atheists away--then I could understand and agree with your post.

And no one 'made them look ungracious'--the Christians made themselves look ungracious.

I am surprised there wasn't a formal apology made by the Christian organization for the way the Christian's soup kitchen spokesperson turned down the atheists in a continued news article.


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## MJsLady (Aug 16, 2006)

There comes a time in discussions such as this when it becomes clear that one side will not convince the other. 
I believe this one has reached it. 
Jesus himself said that not every one who calls his name will be saved. Why? Because they are not truly his. He knows the motivation behind what everyone does. 
As to the person asking if the folks are not caring about the poor, yes we do care. In part because we are human not auto-bots and we love them because we are commanded to. 
As to getting to know "them" I know several. They are nice people. Their basic argument against God is Christians. Which is sad. However I can not hold God responsible for what humans do in his name. Especially when I read his word and find he never said to do it. (Crusades, invasions westboro) God specifically tells us to be quiet not loud and demanding and to eat our own bread, that we worked for and earned in peace. 

It is time to wipe the dust off. (Luke 10) So I will be disconnecting my subscription to this thread because I am commanded to avoid vain babbling and useless arguing, which this has become.


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## Patchouli (Aug 3, 2011)

JeffreyD said:


> Sorry, I don't go to a church. I know lots that do. And being in Los Angeles, I know folks from many different denominations. They still call them churches.


Different denominations means people are all the same religion, ie: Christians, they just vary in their theology. Inter-faith means people of all different religions including those who are not Christians.


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## Patchouli (Aug 3, 2011)

Feather In The Breeze said:


> Paumon, I don't disagree with everything you said, in fact I agree that in Hind sight, they should now avoid each other.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I agree there are plenty of soup kitchens that would have happily let them help. And there was no way for them to know in advance this particular group would not.


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## Paumon (Jul 12, 2007)

Feather In The Breeze said:


> Paumon, I don't disagree with everything you said, in fact I agree that in Hind sight, they should now avoid each other.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Maybe, maybe not. I wasn't there so I don't know.

I know this. I know that both atheists and christians are really super sensitive about their beliefs and they both find each other distressful. Now I am neither atheist or christian, I'm something else that is .... shall we say frightening and incomprehensible ..... to both atheists and christians. (BTW, in case any are wondering, I don't capitalize words like christian because it goes against my religion.:heh ..... So, knowing that my own religious beliefs and my presence would be quite distressful and even frightening to either atheists or christians I would never volunteer to help them at a project if they knew what my beliefs were. If they knew they would have to reject my offer and I know that for a fact, so my offer would make me an uncouth boor for knowingly putting them in a position of disgrace and having to reject me. 

If they didn't know what my beliefs are I might offer to help and I would hide my beliefs from them so as to not make them feel uncomfortable and distressed or frightened. I can guarantee you I would never offer to help any religious or anti-religious group and commence to work on the project while wearing or saying anything that proclaims what my own religious beliefs are. If I did that their own beliefs and fear would demand that they ask me to leave.

So that would make both of us ungracious and that would be pointless and cruel. 

I think the atheists were being spiteful boors for proclaiming their beliefs (the atheist T-shirts they wore) while offering to help the christians. It was an _"thumbing my nose in your face"_ thing to do and they added insult to injury by making a media event out of being rejected by the christians. Just really poor form and they knew what they were doing and what the consequences would be. Nothing would convince me that they weren't being spiteful towards christians right from the start under the guise of being helpful to needy people. 

I also think the people at the christian soup kitchen thingy were being overly sensitive but that's to be expected and the atheists had to expect it as well and they took advantage of that sensitivity.

Sorry if this offends people but I think christians and atheists really need to get a grip and get over themselves and stop drawing attention to themselves. :shrug:


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## unregistered5595 (Mar 3, 2003)

http://www.nonprofitquarterly.org/p...up-kitchen-turns-away-atheist-volunteers.html


> _This article has been altered from its original form. The initial text said that this was the second time that Upstate Atheists attempted to work with the Spartanburg Soup Kitchen; a representative from AU contacted us to correct that misimpression. "We offered to volunteer only one time. The one time that we offered to volunteer, we said that we would not wear our shirts or mention who we were. We were told that we had ulterior motives and weren't allowed so we made care packages to benefit the homeless instead." _NPQ_ regrets the error._


Paumon, while I usually agree with you. And you weren't allegedly there, you are in the wrong country. 
You state the christians and atheists are both overly sensitive.
That the atheists were being spiteful boors and the christians were over sensitive but that was expected (and somehow you find this acceptable?)
Atheists bad, christians good.
(note my respect for your religion, not capitalizing the word christians?)

You say these things (paraphrased) while not saying the obvious, the christian soup kitchen director was the one saying the atheists could go across the street and have the devil with them. 

You were right, we can agree to disagree.

And the media circus, neither party was reported to have brought it on.


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## Paumon (Jul 12, 2007)

Feather In The Breeze said:


> You state the christians and atheists are both overly sensitive.
> That the atheists were being spiteful boors and the christians were over sensitive but that was expected (and somehow you find this acceptable?)
> Atheists bad, christians good........ And the media circus, neither party was reported to have brought it on.


No, I don't find any of the sensitivity on either side to be acceptable. I expect it because .... well, there it is, it's undeniably "there" ...... but I do consider it unacceptable and unevolved. Religious (or non-religious) over sensitivity is an affront to me and what I believe evolved people should be like. I wouldn't say atheists bad, christians good because I also disapprove of what the christians did, that was poor form also. In this incident I think both sides were immature and petty but in general atheists and christians are good people who have common faults just like everyone else. There are very few people in this world who are truly not good people at heart.

The media are a bunch of interfering busy-bodies who relish anything that allows them to fan the flames of discord and mistruths to get people all stirred up.


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## unregistered5595 (Mar 3, 2003)

Paumon said:


> No, I don't find any of the sensitivity on either side to be acceptable. I expect it because .... well, there it is, it's undeniably "there" ...... but I do consider it unacceptable and unevolved. Religious (or non-religious) over sensitivity is an affront to me and what I believe evolved people should be like. I wouldn't say atheists bad, christians good because I also disapprove of what the christians did, that was poor form also. In this incident I think both sides were immature and petty but in general atheists and christians are good people who have common faults just like everyone else. There are very few people in this world who are truly not good people at heart.


I agree to agree.


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## wyld thang (Nov 16, 2005)

The town I lived in Oregon in a rural county had an "all inclusive" group that worked together to provide meals for the homeless. Food cooked from scratch, often gourmet. Plus huge doggie bags and extras for pets. There was a hot meal available every day.

5 churches participated, providing kitchens and the county food bank and various donors provided food. ANYONE regardless of belief was welcome to help. There was NO proselytizing. The homeless were encouraged to help cook and serve and they did. People also brought canned food and clothes people could take.

The churches participating were Baptist, Episcopal, Unitarian, and Methodist/Lutheran(who share a building). ANYONE who wanted to come serve was welcome, REGARDLESS of views.

So yeah, it CAN work getting Christians and pagans and buddists and athiests and agnostics to work together to provide good nutritious compassion to those who need it. And they actually have a GREAT time too. 

Ya just gotta let go of that big stick ha! (EVERYBODY!)


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## Paumon (Jul 12, 2007)

wyld thang said:


> ....... *There was NO proselytizing*. ...... Ya just gotta let go of *that big stick* ha! (EVERYBODY!)


:thumb:

That's the secret to everyone of different faiths getting along together. Let go of that big proselytizing stick and the '_my stick is better than your stick'_ "schtick" and substitute it with a common talking stick.


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