# "Well we just don't really have time for Science..."



## ErinP (Aug 23, 2007)

Aargh!
I just got back from parent/teacher conferences and haven't even had a chance to compare thoughts with DH. (He had to head the opposite direction as soon as we were done.)
Keeping in mind, this is all coming from the standpoint of not only a frustrated mother, but also an elementary teacher. 

The K/1 teacher--
Our 1st grade DD's doing well. A joy to be around, reading with the 2nd grade (because her mother had pushed her to be reading before she'd started K! I already saw how "successful" her older brother had been with this teacher), she's also helpful and has a lot of friends.

The 2/3/4 teacher--
DS, on the other hand, has always been the harder one. He's in third this year. He's still behind in reading, though we're working on that one. His father and I, I mean. 
He's always done very well in Math, though it bothers me that his teacher is a drill and kill teacher. (Very little manipulatives. _Lots_ of worksheets/bookwork)
She was so proud of herself that she's working on writing with the second and third graders this year, as well as fourth. Good grief... As though she's going above and beyond by teaching kids to write earlier than 4th!

What really made me crazy though, was when I asked about Science. "Well, we're working in our Nebraska books... They have some science in them! but we don't get to Nebraska very often either..."
She then told me that she and the principal (who, from a professional standpoint, is the most useless principal I've _ever_ worked under!) had decided that where her class just didn't read very well, they were going to do basically just Math and Reading. Afterall, they can't read the Science books if they can't read. 
Ignoring the fact that in the early elementary grades, reading should be a secondary part of Science. Science is _doing_! 

More importantly, not only does _my_ child thrive on science so do five of the other seven kids in his class... Does she not understand the value of context-based reading? Does she not see the need to stimulate different aspects of a child's interests? 

I'm in the particularly frustrating position of knowing that not only could I teach my own child better than this teacher, I could also teach the _rest_ of the class better! :soap:

It's never even crossed my mind with his sister, but I've considered homeschooling DS on numerous occasions... Today is another...


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## jamala (May 4, 2007)

that is exactly why we pulled DS and DD out of private school last year and now homeschool. That and my 6th grade son had 6 science "tests" that were trace and color a picture out of a science book. When I asked the teacher about this she said "well he is making all a's " I tried to explain that he should when he is being tested on coloring skills in 6th grade, her only answer was "well the other parents are happy with the kids grades." I taught for 10 years and I want my kids to learn not just make straight a's. sorry it is my soapbox too


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## ErinP (Aug 23, 2007)

Were you working when you decided to homeschool, jamala? 
I'm not full time right now, but I do sub a lot and i truly love it. 

DH and I have discussed the fact that his job is flexible enough that DS could take work with him and go with Dad sometimes, so I could work. But that I wouldn't be able to work as often as I do now...

How about your kids? 
Were they happy to home school or did they fight your decision?
And did you ever consider homeschooling one and not the other...?


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## mistletoad (Apr 17, 2003)

He's in a class of 8? And the teacher only manages to cover reading and math? And some of those children are 4th graders? I can hardly believe that I am thinking a bigger school might actually be better! Any chance you could get a long term sub contract at a better school and switch your children to that school?


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## ErinP (Aug 23, 2007)

mistletoad said:


> He's in a class of 8? And the teacher only manages to cover reading and math? And some of those children are 4th graders? I can hardly believe that I am thinking a bigger school might actually be better! Any chance you could get a long term sub contract at a better school and switch your children to that school?


Yes, he's in a class of 8. 
Two second graders (one of whom is reading with my 1st grade DD, the other is in SpEd). 
Three third graders. One of whom is doing his own reading and math (also in SpEd) because he's so far below "grade level."
And three fourth graders. _All_ of whom are working well below grade level in reading. Though they all do fairly well in math.


But the "big" school in our area (35 miles away) is still in the same district. Ie, the same principal is still in charge. 
Keep in mind, there's a _reason_ we have essentially a three-room country school... We just don't have that many bodies in this part of the world. :shrug:

What's really frustrating, though, is that two years ago I taught this very classroom. 
The fourth graders were _my_ second graders. And I had _14 kids_ in the three grades. We not only got to every single subject, but my students showed _marked_ improvement for the year on their spring tests. My hands-on, thematic unit-based approach obviously works.  (But we didn't do enough worksheets. And everyone knows you can't teach school without doing _lots_ of worksheets!)


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## jamala (May 4, 2007)

no, I was already at home when we started, I have a 2 year old who was born 16 weeks early so I stopped teaching in PS when he was born and came home. My kids begged everyday to be homeschooled, and they know that if they decide to go back they can. We all love it, because we have a poultry farm and DH is home working with that we are together alot more and we can vacation when Dh is out of chickens and not worry about the kids missing school. My kids love homeschooling and I can customize their work to their learning styles which are both different. I took alot of "mess" from some family members but I explained that I was qualified to teach anywhere in the nation and I was certainly qualified to teach my own kids. Good luck with whatever you decide and I do have lots of friends that still teach and they homeschool their kids at night and during the day they stay with dads or grandparents and do homework.


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## Cheryl in SD (Apr 22, 2005)

We are taking the fall semester off from science....to add art appreciation and poetry writing.  But my kids just can't do without science, so this week they are making different styles of boats to see which floats better & why. Last week they built "traps" in the forest (we are reading Swiss Family Robinson) and discovered the principles of levers and pulleys. Next week, who knows, maybe it will be something with animals??? Can you & your dh add science at home? Maybe it is time to buy him his own microscope. (Looking at stuff in ours was their self taught project two weeks ago.)


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## Tracy Rimmer (May 9, 2002)

In a class of eight kids the teacher is only teaching math and reading, and can't "get to" science and geography? You have GOT to be kidding?

I'm the last person to tell anyone how to educate their child, but you know that home schooling isn't THAT difficult, don't you? You sound like you're already involved in your children's education, so it wouldn't be that big a step. An ineffective teacher can kill a child's natural love of learning within weeks.


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## ErinP (Aug 23, 2007)

I know it's not that difficult. And I figure if I'm qualified to teach everyone else's kids I can sure enough teach my own. 

No, my only _real_ concerns are social. 
Not so much that he wouldn't _develop_ socially. (I've known a lot of HSed kids, and most of them are nice, well-adjusted kids). 
But rather he'd miss the chance to _connect_ to other kids. Where we live 12 miles from town, he actually dislikes school vacations because he gets lonely. he'd only see other kids once or twice a week.
And little sis isn't a whole lot of fun, I guess...

though I will confess, I worry about how much we'd drive each other bananas; being together 24/7, essentially.

We do already do a lot of "enrichment" (as _my_ 30yr teacher mother puts it) He actually gets off the bus after school, comes in the house and asks, "Can we do a science experiment today, Mom?" 
Chemical reactions, of course, being a fave. 
And yep, a microscope was a Christmas present last year. 



> An ineffective teacher can kill a child's natural love of learning within weeks.


I don't know that I'd necessarily agree with this. Most kids can get through a mediocre teacher or two with no lasting damage. _I_ remember having a couple... 
In fact, that was something else Mom and I discussed recently. I can honestly say I got most of my love for history and reading from my parents. I probably gained my greatest understanding of geology from my mom. Geography was a game we'd play at supper, and so on. 
As a parent _and_ as a teacher, I think parents are a child's most important teachers whether the child is homeschooled or not.

HOWEVER--

That said, Tracy, I thank you for this statement. 
I've been chewing on it for over an hour. 
I think he would _indeed_ survive this teacher with his love of learning unscathed. (He had her last year, afterall, and he's still my little nerd:nerd. But I've been thinking about this. 
Were he in a larger school with multiple teachers per grade, I would have long-since demanded he be put in another classroom.

If only he hadn't told me just this afternoon that he felt bad for homeschooling kids. "They must get so lonely..."


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## cindy-e (Feb 14, 2008)

ErinP said:


> If only he hadn't told me just this afternoon that he felt bad for homeschooling kids. "They must get so lonely..."


I bet there are some homeschool families in your community to connect with. There are usually a good number of homeschool families in rural areas for some reason. Check yahoo groups and your local and state homeschool associations. He might meet some homeschooled kids while you are deciding, and see that they are not lonely and change his mind. It's funny, people think we have such a different "socialization" in hsing, but we really don't. PS kids get to REALLY play with their friends for an hour at recess every day. 5 hours of playtime. OK, so homeschoolers set up a play date that lasts all morning or afternoon one or two days a week. That is still the same 5 hours of playtime. Then we all do the same after school stuff no matter what kind of school we do, music, or sports, or religious activities, or scouts. There are friends there too. As they get older, they still have email and cell phones like everybody else. Socialization out of a school context is really not as hard as people make it out to be. 

If you think that hs is the right thing for him, if you talk up the pluses of homeschooling, like you talk up ps now, he might actually get excited about it. Ultimately though, he only gets ONE education. Sure he can survive a bad teacher, but should he have to when he has a perfectly good one there at home? Some people would just be stuck if they were in your situation. They are not teachers, and they know it. You have a choice. You don't get do-overs with a kid's education.  Hey it's up to you. You know best for your kid. I just would have a hard time letting somebody else do a bad job of what I can do a good job of, where it concerns my kids. That has to be really hard. 

Good luck with the decision,

Cindyc.


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## Mid Tn Mama (May 11, 2002)

The best way for the teacher to emphasize reading while teaching science is to use science text FOR reading. Yes, she may have to search around for science writing that is at level (most science textbooks are one or two years above reading level--at least)

Also, she can do frequent science experiements that the children write about. This is an excellent way to teach reading. Kids need to manipulate words as much as they need to manipulate science.

What trouble specifically is your son having with reading. I may have some suggestions for you.

Bless you for working with your son at home too. That is exactly what needs to be done when our children are behind. I've been there too and have seen great results. Keep plugging away!


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## ErinP (Aug 23, 2007)

Mid Tn Mama said:


> The best way for the teacher to emphasize reading while teaching science is to use science text FOR reading. Yes, she may have to search around for science writing that is at level (most science textbooks are one or two years above reading level--at least)
> 
> Also, she can do frequent science experiements that the children write about. This is an excellent way to teach reading. Kids need to manipulate words as much as they need to manipulate science.
> 
> What trouble specifically is your son having with reading. I may have some suggestions for you.


Nothing specific, really. 
His entire language development has been behind since day one. He didn't speak well enough to understand until he was nearly four... And since language (reading included) is a developmental process, he's still just plodding through the steps.  Practice, practice, practice. 
He loves non-fiction science/machine/engineering type books, so he "looks" at a lot of those (and has figured out he needs to read the captions so he can understand what's going on in the pics!) Not to mention he's working on Accelerated Reader points and is actually at the top of his class with his points. 

No, frankly I think she's just one of those teachers that just really doesn't like science so this is just a convenient excuse. When I taught that room, of the 14 kids I had, 3/4 of them were reading below grade level. We still managed to do science (and the current teacher _knows_ it!)

Funny this thread got bumped today, actually.

Monday DS came home _mad_. He can no longer check out the above-mentioned non-fiction books since he doesn't actually _read_ most of them, cover to cover. And, there aren't AR tests for most of what he picks out.
In fact, he can't even check any out and bring them home until he starts getting his math done neatly (personally, I think it _is_ fairly neat) and correctly on a regular basis. 

Thinking I was getting a very biased version of the truth from a grumpy 8 yr old, I called his teacher yesterday afternoon.
Yep, no "picture books." 
"He just drags those books around all week but doesn't read them." 

I have a very gut-level problem with a teacher who would hold _books_ hostage... :flame:




I won't say I've decided in favor of HSing yet, but I _have_ talked to the state, gotten on a local HSing list and am digging out my old teaching resources...


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## christij (Mar 5, 2006)

AHHHH! I would be fuming too! If a child is languaged delay the last thing you want to do is take away anything that interests him in reading!!!!!!! And if he has his AR points and is passing his tests I don't understand for the life of me why she would do that! And as long as you are willing to sit down with him and read the book with him it shouldn't matter that he checks out one book above level. How is he going to develop his language skills - having an interest and seeing the proper language modeled for him is how he learns!!!!! Has she ever taken the time to sit down with him and help him read one?! 
If she has a problem with his Math neatness that is a MATH issue NOT a reading issue!!!!!
Does the school offer any speech services for him? 
Sorry, to rant but I'm working in special ed as a teacher asst. until we can "get the mortage paid" and then when DD hits school age I plan on HSing. SO it really T's me off when teachers do something like that!


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