# White Park cattle questions



## bama-newsteader (Dec 2, 2011)

Since DJ posted those pictures, I am in love with this breed. I must admit it is purely based on looks - I love the white fur with the black nose and ears. Wouldn't you know there is a 5 yr old bred white park cow for sale in my area and I am seriously considering buying her. I haven't been able to find too much about this breed other than they are primarily for beef. 

Are the well-suited for the southern climate?
How does the beef compare with other breeds?
Does the price/lb favorably compare with black cows?

Any suggestions and info would be appreciated.


----------



## Sherry in Iowa (Jan 10, 2010)

Hi, I can't give you a huge amount of info, but I can share what I know.

We had a couple of white park girls here. We absolutely loved them, they have a GREAT temperament. We used various bulls, so we had a few crosses going on. I tell you that because we ate the offspring and it was really good.

Around here..white on cattle is like some kind of taboo..don't know why exactly..but we didn't have any more trouble with them than the blacks and duns we have now. They both were big girls..weighing well over a thousand pounds each.

We live on a small homestead..and the White Parks tore up the ground when it was wet quite a bit. But I'm guessing no more than any other big cattle breed. That's why we switched to Dexters. We literally cried when the girls left..

We live in Iowa and the girls tolerated both extremes here very well. They had a three sided shed and free choice hay and minerals and water. No grain.

We raised out 2 heifers from the girls along with the neighbors 2 steers. Our girls out weighed and gained better than the angus steers. Don't know if that is always the case, but it's how it worked out here.

Best of luck to you and I don't think you'd regret getting her if she is a calm and healthy animal.


----------



## DJ in WA (Jan 28, 2005)

Well, here goes. My interest was partly the looks, but also a more practical matter.

I have become quite interested in coat color as it relates to heat tolerance. Black cattle have become the trend, but that is a terrible thing in most of north america. Black hair absorbs solar radiation, and so makes them hotter. Most of us know that, which is why we don't wear black in the summer.

Most of our breeds are British, and originated in a cool, cloudy climate where black didn't matter.

Cattle are naturally hot, because their rumen is a fermentation vat, and gives off heat like a compost pile. They don't sweat much, so have to dissipate heat through their breath. So their respiration rate goes up when they are hot, which takes energy, and you lose production. Also they don't eat like they should. We should give them every advantage to avoid getting hot.

To me, it is unacceptable to have black cattle in the south, and should be avoided in most of the states. In many summers, there are thousands of cattle dying in feedlots from heat stress, and the mortality rate is much higher in black cattle.
http://www.iowabeefcenter.org/Cattlemen'sConference/heat stress study.pdf


> Thirty out of 36 producers indicated higher death
> loss in black cattle and the other six producers
> indicated higher death loss with red cattle and had no
> black cattle on feed. One producer indicated only 20%
> ...


So, white hair reflects solar radiation and reduces heat, but with the black pigment around the eyes, you avoid sunburn, as the Hereford people worry about.

So I'm saying they are a good choice for the south to keep cooler cattle. They also hair up well in the winter, so do as well as Angus.

I have tried a few, and half are good disposition, so it's good to check them out. In one herd I looked at, I didn't like the udders, but I'm more particular than most. As there aren't as many as angus, and fewer serious breeders, there can be less quality. I was planning to get semen from this place in Texas with smaller framed bulls. Tom Sawyer's mom has a pretty good udder, and Carter throws very small calves, and Elvis is a nice looking bull. An interesting site with nice videos.
http://www.texasbritishwhitecattle.com/the_herd.htm

Nothing cuter than a British White calf.

A few references on heat stress:
http://www.cattletoday.com/archive/2007/June/CT1033.shtml
http://vetmed.iastate.edu/vdpam/extension/beef/current-events/heat-stress-beef-cattle


----------



## DJ in WA (Jan 28, 2005)

By the way, there seems to be confusion on breed terms. White Parks have the same coloration, but are genetically different than British Whites. Look up White Parks here:

http://www.ansi.okstate.edu/breeds/cattle/


Here's some photos I've posted before.

Wesley last May:










Wesley's mom on the left, with her friend last winter soon after I got them:


----------



## bama-newsteader (Dec 2, 2011)

Thanks DJ and Sherry for the great info.
I went to the texasbritishwhitecattle link and watched the video - now I love them even more! Those are some beautiful, beefy cattle!

DJ - you mentioned you didnt like the udders - is that because you are milking them? If they are just for beef, what should I look for in the udder?

Thanks,
Robin


----------



## DJ in WA (Jan 28, 2005)

Let me say that ignorance is often bliss, and most people do fine without knowing about udders. Few cows have perfect ones. But they should be at least functional and not require extra work, or limit their productive life.

It was just the one herd (7 cows) in which I didn't like the udders. They were floppy, and I didn't like the teat shape (funnel shape). The bigger herd from which my current heifer came had some pretty good udders. Different breeders emphasize different things. I did notice quite a variation in udder size. The breed was once dual purpose, so perhaps the more milky ones still show up.

Having good udders is not just for milking, though it helps for hand milking. I need teats bigger than many dairy cows (machine milked) for something to grab onto. Beef cows don't usually have that problem. They are often too big.

Anyway, an udder should be high and tight - good suspension, not loose and floppy. The bottom should be fairly level. A sloppy, low hanging udder has an increased chance of getting injured, or dirty when they lay down, increasing chances of mastitis or calf sickness.

The teats should be small enough for a calf to nurse. If too big for them to grab onto, you may end up bottle feeding. Teats get bigger with age, so you want to start out smaller. Teat shape also helps a new calf to nurse without assistance.

Here's a website with information and illustrations with more information than you probably want.

http://beef.unl.edu/learning/udder_score.shtml


----------



## Patrick (Sep 13, 2011)

That White Park pattern is found in other breeds too, like Texas Longhorns and Galloways, and the color comes in red also. If it's a beef animal you want, the Galloways are likely to be more efficient producers.


----------



## DJ in WA (Jan 28, 2005)

Again, it seems there is a general lack of appreciation for the difficulty cattle have in dissipating heat.

Galloways are long haired, which makes for increased heat stress in summer. I would not have them in most of the states, especially not in the south.

I read this recently from a guy in Wisconsin. Granted, his galloways were black, but the long hair also has a big effect on heat stress.

http://www.cattletoday.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=71393&start=15



> They are excellent cattle if you live in an area that is generally below 80 degrees and have marginal feed. That is where they were developed. I found that most farms here at least could put their higher quality forage to better use with other breeds. They traditionally took 30 months to finish on forage in Scotland and here they struggle to have decent marbling below that age. ( on forage only) Also, they tend to not shed until around 2 years of age. I tired of watching yearlings frothing at the mouth with long coats during our summers. They are always the ones at the water tank while my herefords are grazing. Main reason why I moved away from black cattle anyway.


A quick google offers studies such as this:

http://www.uvi.edu/sites/uvi/Documents/AES/Animal Science/Olson.pdf



> The rectal temperatures of animals classified as slick was 0.34Â° C (P < 0.05) lower than that from normal-haired animals. The skin temperatures of slick animals was 0.49Â° C (P < 0.05) lower than that of normal haired animals while the respiration rate of slick animals was 12.4 (P < 0.05) breaths per minute less than that of animals with normal hair.


----------



## marytx (Dec 4, 2002)

I was concerned that the white cattle would be prone to skin cancer in the South. Is that not the case?

Also, what is the difference between British White and White Park?

thanks, mary


----------



## janij (Sep 20, 2010)

I think the difference is the British White's are polled. We have 4 British White cows. One cow just calved. They are great cows. Good dispositions, good mothers. We really like ours. I would post pictures of the baby, but am not sure how.


----------



## marytx (Dec 4, 2002)

I much prefer polled.

To post a picture, it most be hosted elsewhere on the web, like Facebook, Photobucket, or Imageshack. Once it is on the web, take the URL and post it between







or use the insert image icon above (6th from left, yellow with mountains)


----------



## Karin L (Oct 5, 2006)

Actually, BOTH American White Park and British White are polled. However, with Am.W.P., there's a 3 to 5% chance that animals come in horned. Ancient White Parks are predominantly horned. Ancient White Parks tend to be heavier (by about 300 lbs) than British Whites, but British Whites tend to be larger than American White Parks. 

Speckle Park can also have this colouration in some animals, and is derived from the White Park (Am.) breed in addition to the infusion of Angus and Shorthorn.


----------



## janij (Sep 20, 2010)

Let me see if I can do this right. Here is our new heifer. She is a British White.http://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/6804815022/in/set-72157629506633057/
Momma, and brother http://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/6804815486/in/set-72157629506633057
This is the calf we had last year form and American British White.http://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/6950933235/in/set-72157629142056212/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/6950938947/in/set-72157629142070082

I did not know that White Parks were polled. I thought that was the major difference.


----------



## Karin L (Oct 5, 2006)

janij said:


> Let me see if I can do this right. Here is our new heifer. She is a British White.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Well there IS a difference between Ancient WP's and American WP's. 

ETA: We (or at least I) cannot see the pictures. I believe you may have to change your privacy settings or something in order for us to see them.


----------



## bama-newsteader (Dec 2, 2011)

Janij, I can't see the photos either - says they are private.

Thanks everyone for the wealth of info. We do have 2 black angus and they haven't had any issues yet in the southern heat, but of course they are in a pasture with shade trees and water, not in a feed lot. Just about every cow I see in the fields is black around here.

Has anyone found it more difficult to sell a white cow vs. a black cow? Do they bring similar prices from the sale barns? 

We are starting a small family farm, so we are not setting out to get into the cattle business, but we would like to sell 2 or 3 calves per year.


----------



## janij (Sep 20, 2010)

Okay, I changed the privacy setting. They sure don't make that easy.


----------



## Karin L (Oct 5, 2006)

Janij, sure like your animals. 

Bama, I highly doubt if you'll get much for them as they will get docked heavily over the blacks. I'd sooner you sell the calves as slaughter cattle for sale to family and friends than to the salebarn. Nothing wrong with selling cattle directly to people who want White Park/British white beef.


----------



## marytx (Dec 4, 2002)

While I've been dreaming of these beautiful white cattle, DH has arranged to buy a Wagyu trio. I guess I need to google up what _they_ look like. At least he says they are polled.


----------



## bama-newsteader (Dec 2, 2011)

Janij - love the pics!
Karin - I agree - I am not a big fan of the sale barn, mainly because that's the way most people get rid of their culls, plus I am no where near expert enough to know what I am buying. We bought all ours privately, and the one we sold was privately.

I do love the looks of this breed - now if I can only convince DH that the non-black penalty is worth it.


----------



## Sherry in Iowa (Jan 10, 2010)

I'm pretty sure that white compared to black would be penalized at the sale barn here. That being said..we never sold any of the calves that way. If you have a calf that needs butchering or one that needs raised to butcher..just put the word out. We've never had trouble getting rid of meat animals. I bet you will do just fine.


----------



## janij (Sep 20, 2010)

Thanks, we like them too. And I agree. Sell privately and at retail.


----------



## Maria (Apr 24, 2003)

My Pineywoods cross cattle have simliar coloration... with spots added. 








The Pineywoods breed has had centuries to get used to Gulf coast conditions so I imagine they'd be well adapted to the area. Alabama has the most Pineywoods breeders of the whole breed registry, so if you are in Alabama, you probably wouldn't have far to go to get one.

Disclaimer- Not all Pineywoods are as beautiful as mine. :whistlin:


----------



## Karin L (Oct 5, 2006)

Maria, didn't know Pineywoods also come in polled. Thought they were all horned like Longhorns.


----------



## Maria (Apr 24, 2003)

Mine are cross bred. The heifer shown is half Lowline Angus. The polled gene is dominant.

This cow is half Longhorn and half Pineywoods:









This is her daughter at 2 years old. She's 3/4 Pineywoods. The new calf is the one shown above two years later.









Since the breed association doesn't recognize percentages, I figured there wasn't much point going all the way to the Gulf Coast for a Pineywoods bull. So, we have Lowline crosses.... but I love the black points and spotty look.  We get black ones half the time and they usally go into the freezer.

This is a Lowline/Pineywoods bull calf we are keeping this year.


----------



## bama-newsteader (Dec 2, 2011)

Maria they are beautiful! The one I am looking at has some spots, so maybe she has some pineywoods in her.


----------



## Karin L (Oct 5, 2006)

Well that explains it then. Very nice cattle Maria.


----------

