# HELP! Can I break my puppy from killing my chickens???



## firefighter1129

I have a 6 month old Boxer / Pit bull mix.... she has done very well so far, until today. we had been letting her out with supervision around the chickens and she showed no interest in chasing them. In fact, she would just lie out in the middle of them when they were loose in the yard, not making any effort to chase them. 

She had done so well, we started letting her out with the chickens when we weren't home. This has gone on for over a month and a half with no problems whatsoever..... until today.

Today she killed her first chicken. She had it half eaten by the time I got home and found her with it. I went back and reviewed our security camera footage and saw her chasing them around for about 20 minutes until she caught one and killed it.

I know that once they get a taste of raw meat, they are VERY hard to break. Am I doomed? Do you have any suggestions? Should I slather the dog with corn mash and put her in the chicken coop with my 25 birds? (KIDDING!!!!!)

Seriously though, any ideas? I love having the dogs around and i think she will make a good guard dog when she gets bigger.... but I will not keep her around if she's going to keep killing my chickens.

HELP!!!!

Jeff


----------



## Otter

Yes, yes you can.

You have made your job a bit harder by trusting a puppy, but this is totally doable. It wasn't her fault, she'd not "wired wrong" or "unfixable" - she's just a puppy and you shouldn't have trusted a puppy.
She is at the PERFECT age to start stuff like this! Of course she didn't do it before, she was an infant. My 3 year old DS doesn't get into worlds of trouble either, but I expect he'll cause me some worry in his teens, kwim?

Now that we know that we can't trust puppies with huge amounts of temptation any more then give a 13 year old the keys to the car, we can move on from there.

NO more unsupervised outdoor time. If she is outside, she is with you, and on a long line. Start some basic training. You want Down, Come, Leave It and With Me.
Come means _run to me as fast as you can and sit at my feet_, With Me means _I want your attention and you need to be within a few feet of me_. If you have a separate command, you won't overuse the serious, I mean business one.

Go up to the pet forum and do a search for threads on dog training. I can recommend some books to get you started.

And seriously, yes, you can train her and you'll be ok. But you do have to TRAIN HER. Put the time in and you'll be fine. I figure on losing one chicken per pup even with tight supervision. But they _all_ learn.


----------



## Coolwater

Yes, I agree! No more unsupervised outdoor time. Pits are great at wanting to make their owners happy, I bet she will get MUCH better under supervised outings. 

PS I bet she would also love to lick off the feed if you put it all over her LOL!!!!


----------



## firefighter1129

THANK YOU!!! I just had to get rid of a chow that we've had for over 10 years. I've spent the last year trying to retrain him NOT to bother my chickens. But the chickens are vital to us and he just would NOT break the habit. Even when supervised, the first thing he would do is go straight for the chickens. He had a taste for fresh poultry, i guess. I tried everything. It broke my heart to get rid of him, but it just wasn't going to work anymore.

We were hoping that by introducing a younger pup, she would learn to leave them alone and it wouldn 't be an issue. Y'all have made me feel better!!! thanks for the replies!

Jeff


----------



## pancho

You chose a crossbred dog out of two aggressive breeds.
Such a dog will always be a danger to something if allowed to run free.


----------



## thaiblue12

First your dog is not an LGD, they are bred to have a low prey drive, be calm, protect the livestock and etc. Mine spend lots of their time looking like large white speed bumps who when something happens jump up and go. 
Your dog can be around them but cannot "guard" them. It is not a job they are bred for and you cannot expect it to ever learn it. 

Both my LGDs as puppies killed adolscent chickens. Not chicks or adults but the mid-age pullets, I tend to think it was the way they moved and sounded. They did not develop a taste for chicken, they were corrected and those chickens were locked up, the dogs could see, hear and smell them but they could not touch them. They got use to them, they also got pecked a few times and chickens tossed at them and if they showed interest they got corrected with a firm no and a poke. Yes I set them up to be corrected but they needed it. 

You have to use her as what her breeds are meant for, you cannot turn her into something she is not and not bred for. You either make sure she cannot get to the chickens and you can leave her out, or she is a house dog who is allowed out supervised in the chicken area. 

You cannot use a non-LGD or a mixed breed of LGD and expect them to behave like they are a true LGD, you and the puppy will not be happy if it is the plan.


----------



## BarbadosSheep

the breed (mix) you have chosen should never really be trusted alone with livestock. You can't just raise any breed with livestock and expect it to be safe around it. Boxers and pit bulls both have strong prey drives and that desire to chase will always be there. If you want a dog to be with livestock 24/7, get a livestock guardian breed. And even then, be prepared for 2 years of supervision because even those breeds will chase and possibly damage/kill chickens until fully mature.

just as a side note....it makes me sad that you got rid of a dog you had for 10 years, just because you decided to get chickens. That dog had to leave the only home he has ever known just because he did something nature told him to do. That makes me really sad that you chose chickens over a loyal old family pet.


----------



## crispin

After trying with a few different dogs over the last few years I finally gave in and put my current dog on a run. (cable in the air)

It is a long one and the chickens cross it and sometimes the dog tries to chase it but they can easily get away.

It is the only thing that has worked.


----------



## arnie

An electric shock collar can work wonders on even the stuberest of dogs . I may get some flack for this but what were you thinking I would never trust either of those breeds of dogs around my small livestock . Please never leave them alone around small children who are much harder to replace.


----------



## jen74145

arnie said:


> An electric shock collar can work wonders on even the stuberest of dogs . I may get some flack for this but what were you thinking I would never trust either of those breeds of dogs around my small livestock . Please never leave them alone around small children who are much harder to replace.


A shock collar, for a six month old unsupervised puppy who discovered the fun game of Chase the Flappy Squawking Things? Overkill.


Time and training, and don't trust a puppy. Otter said it.


----------



## lexa

Why can't you solve you issue by containing your dog when you can not supervising it??? I think you are expecting too much of your dogs, re-home this one as well and do not get another one unless it is a proven poultry guardian. She is a terrier and you can not trust her unsupervised with small livestock.


----------



## Terri

I kept my puppy on a leash until he was no longer a creature of impulse, and 
i spoke sharply every time he showed an interest in the chickens. I started him off the leash when he was 9 months old. But, he was not a terrier. 

I have a Cairn terrier now and I simply do not trust him with chickens at all! He is not as easy to work as the old dog was! But, because your dog is a different type of terrier, the temperament is likely very different.

Edited to add: When my puppies were 6 months old they were creatures of impulse and emotion. I never trusted a puppy that age around traffic or around chickens! When they get excited at that age they only have about 2 neurons working in their entire brains!


----------



## lexa

Terrier is a terrier. They all have been bred with prey drive in mind, even yorkies.


----------



## arnie

jen74145 said:


> A shock collar, for a six month old unsupervised puppy who discovered the fun game of Chase the Flappy Squawking Things? Overkill.
> 
> 
> Time and training, and don't trust a puppy. Otter said it.


Don't ask that chicken it it would have been overkill .but kidding aside training collars can be adjusted from a slight vibrateing buzz to a full spark that will send em under the porch .depending on the need a buzz or two can let a pup know that even though the trainer is out of arms reach its not katie barr the door party time and another dogs life has been saved even if only to come when called and stay out from under a cars wheels.where as after its munched on a chicken and learned it's not nessary to behave out of site it's more than likely gonna end up in the dog pound to meet it maker . May I now ask think about what job is intended for your pet and companion if you have a junk yard get a moungrel pitbull doberman ect.they are great. For fenced in areas in dangerious duty it is what they were bred for don't get a bird dog ether to let hang out in a chicken coop .a firm hand is nessary to get the dog to go agiant its nature to please its master . At 6 months a dog is past a puppy and an adolesant without its manners is in need of proper training to keep it from being condemed to a useless life tied to a box or locked in a kennel .


----------



## DaniR1968

Just curious, what is a good shock collar? I might be in need of one.


----------



## firefighter1129

BarbadosSheep said:


> the breed (mix) you have chosen should never really be trusted alone with livestock. You can't just raise any breed with livestock and expect it to be safe around it. Boxers and pit bulls both have strong prey drives and that desire to chase will always be there. If you want a dog to be with livestock 24/7, get a livestock guardian breed. And even then, be prepared for 2 years of supervision because even those breeds will chase and possibly damage/kill chickens until fully mature.
> 
> just as a side note....it makes me sad that you got rid of a dog you had for 10 years, just because you decided to get chickens. That dog had to leave the only home he has ever known just because he did something nature told him to do. That makes me really sad that you chose chickens over a loyal old family pet.



That wasn't the only reason, he had also become aggressive around my children and couldn't be trusted. The vet couldn't find anything wrong with him to be causing him pain, and there was no explanation for his sudden change in behavior. But he would kill anything that crossed his path... chickens, cats, other dogs, etc...... The options were to either put him down, keep him confined, or find him another home. We chose option 3. Don't ever question my motives.


----------



## firefighter1129

firefighter1129 said:


> I have a 6 month old Boxer / Pit bull mix.... she has done very well so far, until today. we had been letting her out with supervision around the chickens and she showed no interest in chasing them. In fact, she would just lie out in the middle of them when they were loose in the yard, not making any effort to chase them.
> 
> She had done so well, we started letting her out with the chickens when we weren't home. This has gone on for over a month and a half with no problems whatsoever..... until today.
> 
> Today she killed her first chicken. She had it half eaten by the time I got home and found her with it. I went back and reviewed our security camera footage and saw her chasing them around for about 20 minutes until she caught one and killed it.
> 
> I know that once they get a taste of raw meat, they are VERY hard to break. Am I doomed? Do you have any suggestions? Should I slather the dog with corn mash and put her in the chicken coop with my 25 birds? (KIDDING!!!!!)
> 
> Seriously though, any ideas? I love having the dogs around and i think she will make a good guard dog when she gets bigger.... but I will not keep her around if she's going to keep killing my chickens.
> 
> HELP!!!!
> 
> Jeff


Just to clarify..... I did not mean GUARD DOG as in guardian of the livestock....... My mistake for not wording this a little better. We live out in the country, and have 5 acres wired with an underground fence. The dogs roam free and protect our HOME. I simply want to train her not to kill the chickens. I could care less if she "protects" them. Our boxer, BTW, has been the best "chicken guardian" that one could ask for. It's how you raise them.


----------



## thaiblue12

firefighter1129 said:


> That wasn't the only reason, he had also become aggressive around my children and couldn't be trusted. The vet couldn't find anything wrong with him to be causing him pain, and there was no explanation for his sudden change in behavior. But he would kill anything that crossed his path... chickens, cats, other dogs, etc...... The options were to either put him down, keep him confined, or find him another home. We chose option 3. Don't ever question my motives.





firefighter1129 said:


> THANK YOU!!! I just had to get rid of a chow that we've had for over 10 years. I've spent the last year trying to retrain him NOT to bother my chickens. But the chickens are vital to us and he just would NOT break the habit. Even when supervised, the first thing he would do is go straight for the chickens. He had a taste for fresh poultry, i guess. I tried everything. It broke my heart to get rid of him, but it just wasn't going to work anymore.
> 
> Jeff


If you look at your above quotes you stated the only reason you got "rid" of the Chow was due to chickens. Honestly if you post something in a public forum people will comment in a way that you may or may not agree with. 
Had the only reason you got "rid" of the Chow was due to chickens I too would have made a comment about how the Chow should have been kept away from them, or the chickens penned up. 

My chickens mean less to me then any dog, cat or goat, if they are a source of income then I have to do my best to keep them safe. Whether that is providing them with secure fence, or training my house pets to "leave it". 
I had a small dog years ago that I had to re-home to a non-farm family since my then DH refused to follow the simple rule of do not let her out without watching her. He kept doing it over and over until I lost over a dozen chickens. He was at fault not the dog but she was a hunting dog, all 9 pounds of her and it was not going to stop without being trained and he was undoing everything I was working on. 

You can teach the puppy to "leave it", you can train her to ignore the chickens. But I would not leave the puppy/dog out with them 24/7.


----------



## DaniR1968

My grandparents had a pit/boxer mix when I was young. She was hands down the best farm dog. No outside animals were allowed on the property, but she protected what was meant to be there.

I think OP could have a very good farm dog but will need to only allow the pup around the animals while being supervised until she is an adult.


----------



## arnie

DaniR1968 said:


> Just curious, what is a good shock collar? I might be in need of one.


Tri-tronicks makes a very good training collar .they are mostly used for hunting dogs .a good supplyer of hunting equipment is the ; bill boatman co. In ohio. There are several modles priced as to the range or distance they will reach and differint options a less costly one may be all you need as the more powerful long range ones are used on long ranging hounds and bird dogs .for training chaseing deer or other fast unwanted game is a bad fault often needing correction from miles away.check out the post in the sheep section to get a idea of the opinons on a dog ''playing with livestock a couple hard lessons now can save much heartack and expence later .after a lifetime of farm dogs and comeing from a farming heritage my dog for livestock and homestead with children to protect honer and obey is hands down the mt.cur or blackmouth cur unless your gaurding sheep in some distant pasture .if you were near here id give you a. Pup to raise with your children


----------



## peteyfoozer

I have used a citronella collar on my Maremmas instead of a shock collar, when they were young and were going after chickens. They have matured now and are both dependable poultry guardians. It works very, very well on 'soft' dogs. I've never had a dog so hard headed I needed an electric shock collar. The collar sprays citronella at their face and for some reason, they absolutely hate it. We tried an automatic citronella bark collar at a large indoor kennell with 40 dogs and put it on the worst barker. 3 barks and the dog shut up and laid down. It's a thought if you are not comfortable with the idea of using shock on the pup. The remote collar has a pretty good range on it.


----------



## arnie

peteyfoozer said:


> I have used a citronella collar on my Maremmas instead of a shock collar, when they were young and were going after chickens. They have matured now and are both dependable poultry guardians. It works very, very well on 'soft' dogs. I've never had a dog so hard headed I needed an electric shock collar. The collar sprays citronella at their face and for some reason, they absolutely hate it. We tried an automatic citronella bark collar at a large indoor kennell with 40 dogs and put it on the worst barker. 3 barks and the dog shut up and laid down. It's a thought if you are not comfortable with the idea of using shock on the pup. The remote collar has a pretty good range on it.


I'll agree that the citronella collar will work and may be amore affordable most shock collars have several diferint levels of corection from just vibrateing or buzzing ,then a light tingle up to a good jolt at the control of the owner most senceable dogs can be corected with a warning and they are very versitile if a spoiled hardheaded dog determined not to obey in the process of commiting the crime can be stoped imedeatly . I used my collars when training very high quality hard hunting instint drivin hounds ,rabbit beagles for field trials where chaseing deer is an imeadeat discualification and bird dogs that need to obey comands from a distance .now retired and slowed by age on the old family homestead I have never had to put a collar on any of my mt. Curs being bred by old mt farmers for the homeplace not a show ring or pet from pup to retirement not only have I never had one chicken killed I haven't lost one to **** ,cyote,bear and the honey bees are safe from skunks children don't get grouled at meter readers don't get bit .it could be the strain of dogs I was lucky enough to find .but it go's to prove that getting the wright dog for the job makes life so much easyer and drastic training measures unnessary when thinking to have displeased you is there greatest punishment or a attaboy the greatest reward .though I cannot expect them to stay with the goats in a distant pasture as your mammararas or perinese will or point quial .to get a bull dog or doberman or sheep dog broke from killing chickens or biteing school children once they have done it a shocker is nessary .and as all animals humans included some are more inteligent than others and some will never be trustworthy no matter how much effort you put into training . Starting with a moungrel dog posably from bad breeding or bred purposly to indescrimatly bite and mame you are coming to the plate with 2 strlkes


----------



## Alaska_farm_mom

One of my dogs would kill any chickens he saw. I finally had enough of it and tried an Amish way. Tie the dead chicken to the dogs coller, make it very uncomfortable and don't remove it until it stinks like crazy. Good 2 weeks should do it. Mine slept outside and to this day he hasnt killed again. He will get up from laying down to make way for a flock of chickens moving in the area.Worked for me and others have said it worked for them. I now have a lab I can never take bird hunting.


----------



## thaiblue12

Alaska_farm_mom said:


> One of my dogs would kill any chickens he saw. I finally had enough of it and tried an Amish way. Tie the dead chicken to the dogs coller, make it very uncomfortable and don't remove it until it stinks like crazy. Good 2 weeks should do it. Mine slept outside and to this day he hasnt killed again. He will get up from laying down to make way for a flock of chickens moving in the area.Worked for me and others have said it worked for them. I now have a lab I can never take bird hunting.


 
That doesn't always work. A friend of mine tried that and as soon as the dead chicken was removed out of anger for having the gross thing tied to him he killed every chicken on the place in about 10 mins. They re-homed him to a non-poultry farm. 

It is gross and what does it teach them? Fear of birds? I taught my LGD to respect the birds and give them their space with training. But his is not an LGD and restriction to the birds and maybe a shock collar will work for him.


----------



## stillhere

I use the Sport Dog E-collar. I got it from Cabelas. I have a Lab x ?. My best dog ever before her the same breed. Training is essential. That collar has a dvd and training book and the settings are easy to use mostly it is a beep and vibrate for my pup.
Start on the leash and rewards for being good. Our dogs are pets not expected to be LGDs. She has to respect other creatures and listen. They need to be taught. Good Luck.


----------



## Cannon_Farms

I get very frustrated when I hear its how the dog is raised not the breed. The breed was bred for several hundred years for particular traits (game dogs) you dont just erase that with a certain type of raising, kinda like saying a cougar can be a domestic house cat because you raised it that way, when in fact one day fate will catch up with you and laugh. 
I am not anti bully breeds, I love them for what they are, and they are to be respected and their potential to be taken in consideration. There are a very few exceptions to this rule. 

As far as the dog, it comes to pack order and the chickens are not above the pup and you have to make them be. Keep in mind, while the cat is away the mouse will play so I agree there needs to be on line training but a shock collar might help the temptation from when your pup thinks you are not looking. Several of my dogs have had to learn chickens are not fun to play with and it doesnt take much. Shock collars I believe work better on a younger dog than an older one for the fact older dogs are usually wiser and figure out that thing on their neck is what bits them not the "chicken" magically biting back. 
sometimes it is what it is and you cant have your cake and eat it too, best of luck.


----------

