# Alec Baldwin Shot and Killed Female Cinematographer



## kinderfeld (Jan 29, 2006)

Alec Baldwin Shot and Killed Female Cinematographer, Injured Director on Movie Set


A tragedy occurred on the set of the latest Alec Baldwin movie where the actor reportedly accidentally shot and killed a female cinematographer and injured the director due to a prop gun misfire.




www.breitbart.com


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

He is a nut


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## po boy (Jul 12, 2010)

“cocked a gun during a rehearsal, unaware that there were live rounds in it, hitting two people, a man and a woman.” 

Live rounds in a prop gun????


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## JohnP (Sep 1, 2010)

Blank (cartridge) - Wikipedia







en.wikipedia.org





They have wadding that still comes out at the same fps as a chunk of lead would.


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## JohnP (Sep 1, 2010)

> However, the Sheriff’s office indicated that it was too soon to say what type of round was involved. The office also did not use the word “accident,” leaving that determination up to the investigators.











Alec Baldwin Fired Prop Gun That Killed Cinematographer Halyna Hutchins, Injured Director


Alec Baldwin fired a prop gun while filming a scene in New Mexico on Thursday, causing the death of cinematographer Halyna Hutchins and wounding director Joel Souza. The incident occurred on the se…




variety.com





Maybe not blanks? That would be insane or criminal. Him having a six shooter cocked is also insane. He is a cocky bastard though. Sorry for the bad pun.


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## Hiro (Feb 14, 2016)

Jon-Erik Hexum died from a prop gun self inflicted wound. Playing with guns, prop/unloaded?/etc. is a dangerous affair.


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## Vjk (Apr 28, 2020)

Is 'Hutchins' Ukrainian for 'Kopechne'


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## sharkerbaby (Jan 15, 2016)

I'm in no way a fan of Alec Baldwin but I'm having a hard time holding him accountable for this. It was a PROP gun, I'm sure the general belief is those are not supposed to be deadly. I wonder if the actors get training and are informed that they can still inflict deadly injury? For example, are they told that as stated above "They have wadding that still comes out at the same fps as a chunk of lead would." Is that general knowledge in the tv/film making industry? I'm guessing not. Actors are constantly shooting at each other with their prop guns and injury is extremely rare.

I think this is a horrible tragedy and I'm sure he feels incredible guilt and remorse.


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## Vjk (Apr 28, 2020)

He has fired thousands of prop guns in his films. To think he doesn't have the sense to handle them carefully is absurd and irresponsible. I hope he gets charged. But he won't.


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## JohnP (Sep 1, 2010)

> Alec Baldwin asked why was he given ‘hot gun’ after fatal film set shooting











Alec Baldwin asked why was he given ‘hot gun’ after fatal film set shooting


The tragic accident unfolded while Baldwin was filming his upcoming western film “Rust” at Bonanza Creek Ranch in Sante Fe.




nypost.com





Someone on another forum said reports of crew using the gun for target practice a few days earlier but it's not something I've confirmed. Hot gun would mean one with live rounds?


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## GTX63 (Dec 13, 2016)

By law, there must be a qualified armorer present whenever there are firearms (real or prop) on a movie set. 
An armorer is supposed to handle, check, transfer, recover, check and check again before securing after use.


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## JohnP (Sep 1, 2010)

Prop Gun Fired by Alec Baldwin Contained a ‘Live Single Round,’ Says IATSE Local 44


The incident took place October 21 at the Bonanza Creek Ranch in Santa Fe County. It is under investigation.




www.indiewire.com





""" Prop Gun Fired by Alec Baldwin Contained Live Bullet, Says IATSE Local 44 — UPDATE """

I know nothing about indiewire as far as being a reliable source. Makes sense though. While blanks can be dangerous, it's doubtful you could kill one person and wound another. Somehow, a real round made it into the gun.

Also keep in mind that the word prop, doesn't mean fake. A prop is any physical items used for visual effect. Could be made of foam, could be the real thing. 

Baldwin should get a manslaughter charge and the prop/armory person(s) should be getting a criminal negligence charge but it's hollywood. Money will likely just be exchanged.


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## GTX63 (Dec 13, 2016)




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## po boy (Jul 12, 2010)

There shouldn't be a live round anywhere near a movie set.
A prop gun should be a gun manufactured to be a prop only and the caliber should not be the same as any manufactured live round.


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## Forcast (Apr 15, 2014)

Hiro said:


> Jon-Erik Hexum died from a prop gun self inflicted wound. Playing with guns, prop/unloaded?/etc. is a dangerous affair.


Brandon Lee too


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## JohnP (Sep 1, 2010)

Alec Baldwin: What are prop guns and why are they dangerous?


An incident involving US actor Alec Baldwin puts the spotlight on an item often used on film sets.



www.bbc.com





What are prop guns and why are they dangerous?


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## Cornhusker (Mar 20, 2003)

He should have used common sense but he's kind of famous for not having any.
We grew up knowing you never, ever point a gun at anybody, real, plastic, squirt or cap, never point it at someone.
He's a big anti gunner, I'm surprised he didn't educate himself in gun safety.
But then, most gun haters don't know anything about guns or gun safety.
It was a tragedy brought on by his stupidity. Manslaughter charges should be in his future.
Prayers for the victims and their families


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## Terri (May 10, 2002)

_IF_ there was a live round in the gun, then presumably someone could have been killed as soon as the cameras started rolling

On the other hand, it is common knowledge that the wadding is dangerous. I know it and I am not an actor. I would say that if Mr Baldwin did not know it, then why did he not know it? Because actors have died that way before. If that person died from the wadding, then I agree he should be charged. If not, then the person who was in charge of the guns should be charged. IMHO


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## nchobbyfarm (Apr 10, 2011)

There are a lot of tweets Baldwin made about other shootings that are not aging well for him after this incident.


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## Terri (May 10, 2002)

JohnP said:


> What are prop guns and why are they dangerous?


After one actor was killed, the newspapers stated that the guns used in the movies were slightly too small to accept a real bullet. The man died because an explosion is an explosion, and while the wadding in the prop gun does not travel very far it does leave the barrel with some force. And the dead actor had pointed it at his head and pulled the trigger and the wadding killed im.

However the actor Brandon Lee was apparently killed because a bullet was in the gun? The two items do not agree, but all I know is what the newspapers say.


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## poppy (Feb 21, 2008)

GTX63 said:


> View attachment 101256
> 
> View attachment 101257



He looks pretty distraught but then again he is an actor. I agree with others who say he has had a lot of previous experience with prop guns and certainly knew they could be dangerous.


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## TripleD (Feb 12, 2011)

He still had to be pointing it at her and pulling the trigger. He's a strange guy! Dumb on the gun level...


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## GunMonkeyIntl (May 13, 2013)

po boy said:


> There shouldn't be a live round anywhere near a movie set.
> A prop gun should be a gun manufactured to be a prop only and the caliber should not be the same as any manufactured live round.


Unfortunately, that’s not an option. When you see someone firing a full-auto “prop” in a movie, it’s a legit machine gun owned by a prop company. If they had to look and function like a real gun but not actually be a gun, the cost to produce them would be astronomical.

A prop company has the same licenses as a class III dealer, and, more often than not, a manufacturer. Where a transferable M16 lower might cost a peasant $30,000, a prop company can buy and own one for their actual price of like $800. Even other countries with extremely tight gun laws, but a flourishing film industry, the prop companies can have large, legitimate arsenals. I’ve got a buddy in Australia with a prop-guild license, and he has a couple hundred machine guns in a bunker on his property. They’re all legit and ready to go. They don’t become “safe” until he blesses off on them on the set.


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## GunMonkeyIntl (May 13, 2013)

TripleD said:


> He still had to be pointing it at her and pulling the trigger. He's a strange guy! Dumb on the gun level...


We obviously need to wait for the details, but I’m betting he was messing around and was pretending to shoot the people he shot. If it was part of a scene, one would think it would have been another actor that was shot.

If that’s the case, it seems like he could end up catching a manslaughter poke.


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## muleskinner2 (Oct 7, 2007)

I use blanks all the time when training horses, both factory and my own loads. They do not have any kind of wadding, and would have to be point blank to hurt anyone. The brass is crimped over at the end, keeping the powder from falling out, but there is no wadding. At two feet the escaping hot gas would leave a burn, but to kill someone the barrel would have to be touching the skin. Sounds like the prop master handed him a gun loaded with real ammunition.

If you put wadding in while loading blank ammunition, it isn't a blank, it's live ammunition.


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## Kelly Craig (Oct 10, 2021)

Yep, either it's a "prop" gun or it isn't. My brother has a prop Winchester hanging on his bedroom wall. I brought my sanding and polishing equipment over to work on it, Now it looks and feels a lot like the real thing, but you couldn't even put a bullet in it, so could not make it dangerous.

Meanwhile, back at the ranch, if someone were using real guns that had not been disabled (e.g., you couldn't put a round in the chamber), then you have a whole lot of negligence, including on the part of the extreme liberal idiot who murdered the girl.



po boy said:


> “cocked a gun during a rehearsal, unaware that there were live rounds in it, hitting two people, a man and a woman.”
> 
> Live rounds in a prop gun????


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## Kelly Craig (Oct 10, 2021)

I suspect what people are calling wadding is the wax or plastic used to hold the powder in place. Many bullets were just crimped to a point, so nothing came out of them but burned powder.

At a foot, a seal could be lethal. Even feet away, it could blind. In the end, they're guns that use powder so should be treated as what they are - dangerous.

I remember one starting pistol I looked at - nothing could leave the front of the barrel. Everything from the [starter] shot exited forward from the top of the barrel. It was about fifty years ago, so I do not remember the caliber or minute details. I suspect the crimped bullet used in it fit fine, while a 22 short would be too much to get it closed, but maybe not.



muleskinner2 said:


> I use blanks all the time when training horses, both factory and my own loads. They do not have any kind of wadding, and would have to be point blank to hurt anyone. The brass is crimped over at the end, keeping the powder from falling out, but there is no wadding. At two feet the escaping hot gas would leave a burn, but to kill someone the barrel would have to be touching the skin. Sounds like the prop master handed him a gun loaded with real ammunition.
> 
> If you put wadding in while loading blank ammunition, it isn't a blank, it's live ammunition.


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## altair (Jul 23, 2011)

Cornhusker said:


> He should have used common sense but he's kind of famous for not having any.
> We grew up knowing you never, ever point a gun at anybody, real, plastic, squirt or cap, never point it at someone.
> He's a big anti gunner, I'm surprised he didn't educate himself in gun safety.
> But then, most gun haters don't know anything about guns or gun safety.
> ...


I would very much agree. But acting, for the realism, sometimes dictates otherwise. I still don't think there should be any projectiles whatsoever in them.


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## Forcast (Apr 15, 2014)

I could understand better if it was an actor that was in the accident but the director? Why would he be pointing at them?


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## TripleD (Feb 12, 2011)

Forcast said:


> I could understand better if it was an actor that was in the accident but the director? Why would he be pointing at them?


He's an idiot! Left coast..


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## altair (Jul 23, 2011)

Forcast said:


> I could understand better if it was an actor that was in the accident but the director? Why would he be pointing at them?


The director directs and could have been saying 'stand here at this angle with the gun like this'.

He's also starring in the movie as a character called Harland Rust.


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## homesteadforty (Dec 4, 2007)

Cornhusker said:


> He should have used *common sense but he's kind of **famous for not having any*...
> 
> ...He's a *big anti gunner*, I'm surprised he didn't educate himself in gun safety.
> But then, most *gun haters don't know anything* about guns or gun safety.
> It was a tragedy brought on by *his stupidity*....


Certainly you wouldn't let a personal dislike of someone affect your judgement regarding justice would you???



> _Manslaughter charges should be in his future._


Personally I can't stand the man but... as GTX63 said...



GTX63 said:


> By law, there must be a qualified armorer present whenever there are firearms (real or prop) on a movie set.
> An armorer is supposed to handle, check, transfer, recover, check and check again before securing after use.


he's not the responsible party in this case.



> We grew up knowing you never, ever point a gun at anybody, real, plastic, squirt or cap, never point it at someone.


Hmmmm... what's the point of a squirt gun if you can't point it at someone and squirt them??? How did hundreds of millions of kids ever play army??? or cowboys and Indians??? or cops and robbers??? without pointing toy guns at each other?

BTW, I knew a man that was a police instructor in a sizable department who shot himself with a blank gun. It went off when he stuck it in the front of his pants during a training exercise. He was lucky that nothing vital (his femural artery) or semi-vital (his dangly bits) were hit... but it blew a sizable chunk out of the inside of his thigh.


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## Kelly Craig (Oct 10, 2021)

There is nothing in law prohibiting him being named in a damage suit for negligence. The gun was in his hand and he had full control over it.



If you hand me, or most savvy gun owners, a gun, even if we saw you check it, we're going to do it too. We are that consumed with how dangerous they can be, and this instance proves us right.

Nothing in law says he is exempt from negligence merely because so called, but, obviously, not, experts were employed to manage fire arms used on the set.



This horses ass has handled guns more than once, so a claim of "failure to properly train and supervise" could be attacked pretty easily. Especially if he's a contractor and not a mere employee.





homesteadforty said:


> he's not the responsible party in this case.


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## homesteadforty (Dec 4, 2007)

Kelly Craig said:


> There is nothing in law prohibiting him being named in a damage suit for negligence. The gun was in his hand and he had full control over it.


True... you can sue anybody for anything. In fact, I've seen many on this forum rail against just that.



> If you hand me, or most savvy gun owners, a gun, even if we saw you check it, we're going to do it too. We are that consumed with how dangerous they can be, and this instance proves us right.


True again... but Baldwin is presumable not a "savvy" gun owner. He (and all actors) have "people" to handle that.



> Nothing in law says he is exempt from negligence merely because so called, but, obviously, not, experts were employed to manage fire arms used on the set.


Tort law apportions responsiblity in most cases. The producers, directors and safety experts will be held far more responsible than Baldwin. He will easily show that, in thousands of instances, he rightfully and correctly relied on higher authorities expertise regarding safety.


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## Kelly Craig (Oct 10, 2021)

You cannot delegate liability for your acts and omissions to someone else. That's just the way law works.

From where you were going, we can go, next, to that the gun store didn't warn you about doing stupid things. We can pass that on to driving a car and so on. No one else is responsible for your acts. It is up to you to make yourself aware of the dangers of your acts.

Ignorantia juris non excusat (ignorance excuses no one)

Tort law only apportions responsibility when apportionment [for neglect] is sought, and can be shown applicable. If the liability is apportioned in this instance, much of it will still rest in the hands of the one who had ultimate control - Baldwin. 

The fact he's handled stage guns several times, AND that their danger was such that he needed the protection of experts to aid him, may all work against him, when his deep pockets are targeted.


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## homesteadforty (Dec 4, 2007)

Kelly Craig said:


> You cannot delegate liability for your acts and omissions to someone else. That's just the way law works.
> 
> Ignorantia juris non excusat (ignorance excuses no one)


Sorry... wrong.

Apportionment of liability is a tort law term used to *refer to the parceling out of liability for an injury among multiple tortfeasors*. ... Apportionment of liability encompasses legal doctrines such as joint and several liability, comparative responsibility, indemnity, and settlements.

In some cases even the plaintiff can be held partially responsible.

from: Legal Definitions Legal Terms Dictionary | USLegal, Inc.

Stare decisis (let the decision stand)

_edited to add: _look up MATRA, The Model Apportionment of Tort Responsibility Act for further clarification... sorry got to run... bye.


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## GunMonkeyIntl (May 13, 2013)

Kelly Craig said:


> Yep, either it's a "prop" gun or it isn't.


That’s the thing. It’s not like that. A “prop gun” is a gun used as a prop. There are “dummy guns” that could never function as a real gun or have been de-milled from functioning, but, 99.9% of the time you see a gun go ‘bang’ in a movie, it is a gun- full-stop.

I culled feral hogs from a helicopter in Australia with an STG43 “prop gun”. It fake-killed a bunch of Australians in war movies, and real-killed a bunch of feral pigs in the desert. It was all a matter of what was in the magazine and whether of not it had a BFA (blank fire adaptor) in the muzzle to make it cycle on blanks. When the military does blank-firing exercises, they use a BFA that is brightly colored and attached in such a way that, if a real round is fired, it damages the gun and potentially injures the shooter rather than anyone down range.

With most old west revolvers and lever rifles, there is no BFA. The lethal “bullet” in Western movie prop-gun could be something as benign as a cleaning brush or stuck wadded-up cleaning patch… or a bullet.


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## GunMonkeyIntl (May 13, 2013)

Liability in this case is probably going to fall back on the prop company. The guild has pretty strict rules about gun handling on set. No matter what the director, producer or star says, the prop guy gets final say on anything that happens with one of the guns.

I was on a set once because a relatively new design we sold was being used. The prop company had bought the semi-auto version, for expediency sake, and converted them to full-auto, and then made them look like space guns. I was there to help with the conversion, and they invited me to go to the shooting in case they had any problems, since it was a new design and I knew as much as anybody about how it worked.

The prop guy, my buddy, had a safety brief he had to do for each set, and clearing protocol he went through to make sure the rifle didn’t have any real ammo, and there was none in the vicinity. The clearing dance took a couple minutes. When he was done, he’d stage it on a table with a piece of paper taped to the table, covering the action. The actor who was going to handle it had to show clear pockets, and he was the only one allowed to touch it for the shot.

At one point, trying to do my best impression of a wallflower, my dumbass saw a pin sticking out of the receiver and walked over to the table and clicked it back into place. “MF’er”, my buddy shouts. “Now I gotta do it all again.” “Everybody stand by. Clearing. AGAIN.”

ETA:
This:









Became this:









And never lost its ability to shoot real 5.56 ammo.


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## Kelly Craig (Oct 10, 2021)

So others understand, stare decisis is, essentially, a term applied to common law. That is, the same results in similar cases should always be seen. HOWEVER, that court in one county or city makes a given ruling under a specific set of circumstances does not mean the next town or county over has to give it any recognition.

In truth, courts rarely produce actual common law rulings, though they should. Even the same court can rule differently in the same type of case. This is because judges are individuals [and distinguished from the courts]. 

Even appellate courts across the land offer up conflicting [stare decisis] decisions. A quick review of West Law and other publications makes clear that fact. Often, conflicting opinions can be found in the next paragraph.

As to apportionment, you merely repeated what I said, and added the fact a plaintiff or petitioner can be found responsible for an act, reducing the judgment, in whole or part.

Here, it remains Lefty was not an innocent bystander. 

The safe money may be on that Lefty's legal reps will settle, rather than risk worse results in front of a jury.

SIDE NOTE: I've filed a few tort claims, waited the mandatory sixty days, when the case did not involved requests for public records, which are treated like summary judgements, then moved on to a superior, then appellate and, finally, supreme court. My cases were, with a few exceptions, against public agencies.



homesteadforty said:


> Sorry... wrong.


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## Kelly Craig (Oct 10, 2021)

GunMonkeyIntl said:


> Unfortunately, that’s not an option. When you see someone firing a full-auto “prop” in a movie, it’s a legit machine gun owned by a prop company. If they had to look and function like a real gun but not actually be a gun, the cost to produce them would be astronomical.
> 
> A prop company has the same licenses as a class III dealer, and, more often than not, a manufacturer. Where a transferable M16 lower might cost a peasant $30,000, a prop company can buy and own one for their actual price of like $800. Even other countries with extremely tight gun laws, but a flourishing film industry, the prop companies can have large, legitimate arsenals. I’ve got a buddy in Australia with a prop-guild license, and he has a couple hundred machine guns in a bunker on his property. They’re all legit and ready to go. They don’t become “safe” until he blesses off on them on the set.



But you gotta love the ten thousand round magazines so many of them use, and the "no-melt" barrels, no?


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## Kelly Craig (Oct 10, 2021)

Assuming a suit is brought and Baldwin is named in it, it remains guilds have no say over juries. To the contrary, the only thing they can do is send some one with FIRST HAND KNOWLEDGE to testify. Any other contact with a jury member to influence them becomes a crime.

I have zero doubt Baldwins attorneys will try to throw it all on someone else, and that's understandable, but it doesn't mean a jury won't find the one who actually pulled the trigger without checking the safety of the prop free of all responsibility. If my experts showed me how to drive a car, then I ran it into a crowd of spectators or my own crew because I handled it wrong, the safe money is on that I'm going to be before both a prosecutor and a plaintiff's attorney, once the criminal case ran its course.

This would not be the first time Baldwin got his butt handed to him in court, in spite of having money to hire better attorneys than most of us could afford.



GunMonkeyIntl said:


> Liability in this case is probably going to fall back on the prop company. The guild has pretty strict rules about gun handling on set. No matter what the director, producer or star says, the prop guy gets final say on anything that happens with one of the guns.


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## JohnP (Sep 1, 2010)

https://www.latimes.com/entertainment-arts/business/story/2021-10-22/alec-baldwin-rust-camera-crew-walked-off-


set
Alec Baldwin ‘Rust’ camera crew walked off the set in protest before the fatal shooting


> Hours before actor Alec Baldwin fatally shot a cinematographer on the New Mexico set of “Rust” with a prop gun, a half-dozen camera crew workers walked off the set to protest working conditions.
> 
> The cinematographer who was accidentally killed, Halyna Hutchins, had been advocating for safer conditions for her team, said one crew member who was on the set.
> 
> ...


ME: Of course the article is misusing the term misfire and they all keep saying prop gun but a prop is any physical item used for visual effect. Could be real, could be foam.

So Baldwin was not only the lead actor but the producer aka money man. Working conditions were an issue, including safety.


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## TripleD (Feb 12, 2011)

homesteadforty said:


> Certainly you wouldn't let a personal dislike of someone affect your judgement regarding justice would you???
> 
> 
> 
> ...





homesteadforty said:


> Certainly you wouldn't let a personal dislike of someone affect your judgement regarding justice would you???
> 
> 
> 
> ...


The man you knew was an idiot too!!!


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## Forcast (Apr 15, 2014)

Los Angeles Times: Alec Baldwin 'Rust' camera crew walked off before shooting.








'Rust' crew describes on-set gun safety issues and misfires days before fatal shooting


At least one of the camera operators complained last weekend to production managers about gun safety on the set.




www.latimes.com


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

Forcast said:


> Los Angeles Times: Alec Baldwin 'Rust' camera crew walked off before shooting.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


That changes things

From your link
Baldwin, the film’s star who also served as a producer on the film​​One of the producers ordered the union members to leave the set and threatened to call security to remove them if they didn’t leave voluntarily.​“Corners were being cut — and they brought in nonunion people so they could continue shooting,” the knowledgeable person said.​​The shooting occurred about six hours after the union camera crew left.​


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## Forcast (Apr 15, 2014)

Forcast said:


> Los Angeles Times: Alec Baldwin 'Rust' camera crew walked off before shooting.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Now police are saying live round.


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## Farmerga (May 6, 2010)

A "prop" gun in that performs as a gun is a real gun, supposedly loaded with blanks, but, capable of being loaded with live rounds. Pointing a foam gun at someone is one thing, but, pointing a real "prop" gun is something entirely different.


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## barnbilder (Jul 1, 2005)

There was a time when we had actors that looked like they knew what they were doing with a firearm. And knew what a firearm could do. This kind of thing would probably have happened a lot more, but the type of actor I'm talking about probably instinctively checked the hot status of every gun they picked up, each time they picked it up, kept the muzzle pointed in a safe direction, treated every gun as if it were loaded, never pointed a gun at anything they didn't intend to kill or maim, and probably insisted on not pulling the trigger and discharging even a blank with a gun pointed directly at someone. No Mr. Director, I'm going to aim at the bird right over that guys left shoulder, get your camera guys to do their thing, ain't gonna do it, I'll leave right now.

A bad actor, and worse human being, like Baldwin, was probably goofing off, trying to be cute, and killed somebody in the process. Unless it was the rare point at the camera scene, that should have involved some pretty intensive checks and double checks, and maybe remote camera operation.


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## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

'Cold gun!' shouted Halls before handing the gun to Baldwin, using the phrase to signal to cast and crew that the gun was safe to fire for the scene, the warrant said.

"Seconds later, filming a scene inside an Old West-style church, Baldwin apparently aimed towards the camera and pulled the trigger, accidentally killing Hutchins as she filmed him, and injuring director Joel Souza, who stood behind her.

The gun that fired the fatal shot was a vintage-style Colt revolver, DailyMail.com has exclusively learned. The movie, set in 1880's Kansas, stars Baldwin as the infamous outlaw Harland Rust, whose grandson is sentenced to hang for an accidental murder."

A call sheet from the set identified the armorer's name as Hannah Gutierrez Reed, according to the Wall Street Journal. Gutierrez-Reed, 24, is the daughter of legendary Hollywood armorer and firearms consultant Thell Reed, who trained her from a young age, she said in a recent podcast interview. 

She said in the podcast that she had recently completed her first film as head armorer on The Old Way, starring Nicolas Cage. 'I almost didn’t take the job because I wasn’t sure if I was ready, but doing it, it went really smoothly,' she said in the interview last month.









Production crew walked off Baldwin movie set before tragic shooting


The workers had been complaining about the fact they had to stay overnight in Albuquerque - an hour's drive from the set - and not Sante Fe because production wouldn't pay for their hotels.




www.dailymail.co.uk


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## Redlands Okie (Nov 28, 2017)

Good article Link PW


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

The prop master who handled the gun that killed the cinematographer on Alec Baldwin’s film “Rust” was “just brought in” amid a protest over conditions on the set, The Post has learned.

The unidentified employee was hired to replace someone else amid chaos on the set, according to a source involved with the movie. 








Worker in charge of Alec Baldwin’s prop gun was replacement hire amid on-set chaos, safety concerns


The unidentified prop master was “just brought in” before the shooting that killed cinematographer Halyna Hutchins on the New Mexico set of “Rust,” a source involved in…




nypost.com


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## barnbilder (Jul 1, 2005)

If it was a cap and ball job, it would be very easy to get a ball stuck in the barrel and then blow it out with a blank.


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

...


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## kinderfeld (Jan 29, 2006)

Terri said:


> However the actor Brandon Lee was apparently killed because a bullet was in the gun? The two items do not agree, but all I know is what the newspapers say.





barnbilder said:


> If it was a cap and ball job, it would be very easy to get a ball stuck in the barrel and then blow it out with a blank.


A squib load. That's what happened to Brandon Lee. During a scene that involved a close up view of the gun, live rounds were used. But, the powder had been removed. These dummy rounds still had the primers which was apparently sufficient to fire the bullet, but just enough to lodge it in the barrel. Later in the scene blanks were used. The propellant from the blank was enough to propel the previously lodged round with almost the same force as a live round.


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## barnbilder (Jul 1, 2005)

Knowing the nature of blanks, often times a faster burning propellant is used to make up for the lack of projectile compression, to make it pop instead of hiss, it is quite possible that a lodged projectile could exit the barrel much faster than normal. If you had people that knew anything about guns handling guns, armorers, actors, crew, directors, you wouldn't have these problems. Handing Alec Baldwin a gun that has not been rendered inoperable is a mistake in any case.


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## barnbilder (Jul 1, 2005)

Always check bore after any reduced power load, or any round that performed unsatisfactorily. It's grade school level stuff. Right there with keep bugger picker off boom button until time to rock, roll and make hole.


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## poppy (Feb 21, 2008)

For perspective, Alec Baldwin has killed more people than all the Jan. 6 protesters combined.


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## altair (Jul 23, 2011)

^ Five people died in the Capitol riots if that's your 1/6 event.


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## mreynolds (Jan 1, 2015)

altair said:


> ^ Five people died in the Capitol riots if that's your 1/6 event.


But how many were killed?

Not to get in the middle but words and facts matter.


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## JeffreyD (Dec 27, 2006)

altair said:


> ^ Five people died in the Capitol riots if that's your 1/6 event.


Who were they and what did they die from? Ashley Babbitt for sure, but the other's... cardiac arrest, drug overdose....your being disingenuous with your statistics don't you think?


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## GunMonkeyIntl (May 13, 2013)

mreynolds said:


> altair said:
> 
> 
> > ^ Five people died in the Capitol riots if that's your 1/6 event.
> ...


One. One person was killed. 
So, to pivot on Herr Poppy’s point, Alec Baldwin has now killed as many people as the government did at the January 6th protest.


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## mreynolds (Jan 1, 2015)

GunMonkeyIntl said:


> One. One person was killed.
> So, to pivot on Herr Poppy’s point, Alec Baldwin has now killed as many people as the government did at the January 6th protest.


And that's how truth in reporting becomes either guided propaganda or truth. 

Both paragraphs were true but one was to allude to something else.


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## altair (Jul 23, 2011)

JeffreyD said:


> Who were they and what did they die from? Ashley Babbitt for sure, but the other's... cardiac arrest, drug overdose....your being disingenuous with your statistics don't you think?


I just call it as I see it. One person was killed (and another beaten). Alec Baldwin didn't purposely shoot to kill while the protests were a bit more nefarious in motivations.


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## Alice In TX/MO (May 10, 2002)

Apples. Oranges.


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## kinderfeld (Jan 29, 2006)

Apparently there were numerous accidental discharges on set before this happened.



https://decider.com/2021/10/23/alec-baldwin-rust-movie-shooting-updates/?_ga=2.5168115.1952212282.1635013878-839747787.1624645917


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## JeffreyD (Dec 27, 2006)

altair said:


> I just call it as I see it. One person was killed (and another beaten). Alec Baldwin didn't purposely shoot to kill while the protests were a bit more nefarious in motivations.


Facts matter. Apparently your truth is different than reality. Were the January 6th protestors as violent as the blm or antifa protests? The answer is no, it was not. You also have to ask, who really started the January 6th "insurrection"?


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## wr (Aug 10, 2003)

It might be a good idea to keep politics out of the discussion.


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## GunMonkeyIntl (May 13, 2013)

altair said:


> I just call it as I see it. One person was killed (and another beaten). Alec Baldwin didn't purposely shoot to kill while the protests were a bit more nefarious in motivations.


You’re right. That is accurate. One person was killed, I guess other(s?) were beaten, but only one was killed.

Your statement was as accurate as CNN saying that Joe Rogan took horse de-wormer.

It was also exactly as dishonest.


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## Hiro (Feb 14, 2016)

I am amazed that this is still a point of discussion (Jan. 6). I and many others called if for what it was at the time, Kabuki theater. Just some random old geezer(me) could pick out the instigators and they were obviously Feds. There were paid "journalists" instigating things to film. How is it that is a matter of contention? It was not an insurrection, it was not a riot, it was a staged event to give people with a predisposed hatred of the POTUS at the time and his supporters a reason to despise all of them even more. 

Get back to me when they find the actual instigators that are filmed from every angle and quit arresting the people that refused to be a narc that weren't even in the Capitol and stop talking about the dude in buffalo costume or the poor schlep that stole the Speaker of the House podium and just left it somewhere else in the Capitol. Did I mention this was Kabuki theater that sadly left some young lady dead that was unarmed and didn't threaten anyone?


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## altair (Jul 23, 2011)

JeffreyD said:


> Facts matter. Apparently your truth is different than reality. Were the January 6th protestors as violent as the blm or antifa protests? The answer is no, it was not. You also have to ask, who really started the January 6th "insurrection"?


I said nothing untruthful, but if you see the devil in all details that is your prerogative. I completely agree some BLM and other protests are as bad or worse. We can cite other acts of attrition but I'm keeping to the OP's topic.


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## JeffreyD (Dec 27, 2006)

altair said:


> I said nothing untruthful, but if you see the devil in all details that is your prerogative. I completely agree some BLM and other protests are as bad or worse. We can cite other acts of attrition but I'm keeping to the OP's topic.


Facts and words matter. Details matter. You said they died on January 6th. Call it what you want, but what you stated simply wasn't true.


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## altair (Jul 23, 2011)

If they didn't die, cool, so much the better for their families.

Here's an update article on the original post: Podcast reveals 'Rust' armorer's feelings about previous job: 'I was really nervous' (yahoo.com)


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## Vjk (Apr 28, 2020)

I have a spray bottle with water in it in my bathroom. My phuquing 2yo grandson knows better than to point it at somebody when he pulls the trigger.


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## GTX63 (Dec 13, 2016)

This is the first paragraph in the union rules regarding on set firearms. The language in the section I read is very explicit ie what protocols are and who is responsible.

*BLANKS CAN KILL. TREAT ALL FIREARMS AS THOUGH THEY ARE LOADED.
"LIVE AMMUNITION" IS NEVER TO BE USED NOR BROUGHT ONTO ANY STUDIO
LOT OR STAGE.* 

It would appear that when police arrived at the scene, live ammunition was found stored in an area with blanks.


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## colourfastt (Nov 11, 2006)

barnbilder said:


> Always check bore after any reduced power load, or any round that performed unsatisfactorily. It's grade school level stuff. Right there with keep bugger picker off boom button until time to rock, roll and make hole.


Could you translate that into English?


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## kinderfeld (Jan 29, 2006)

GTX63 said:


> It would appear that when police arrived at the scene, live ammunition was found stored in an area with blanks.


What could possibly go wrong? Oh.....right.


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## barnbilder (Jul 1, 2005)

colourfastt said:


> Could you translate that into English?


I used English.


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## Vjk (Apr 28, 2020)

GTX63 said:


> This is the first paragraph in the union rules regarding on set firearms. The language in the section I read is very explicit ie what protocols are and who is responsible.
> 
> *BLANKS CAN KILL. TREAT ALL FIREARMS AS THOUGH THEY ARE LOADED.
> "LIVE AMMUNITION" IS NEVER TO BE USED NOR BROUGHT ONTO ANY STUDIO
> ...


The union crew had walked off the job and we3re replaced by local hires. Apparently, the Woke Master treated his workers like scum.


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## muleskinner2 (Oct 7, 2007)

While I am for firing Union Workers every chance you get. They should be replaced with skilled people. If there was live ammunition on the set, that has nothing to do with the workers being Union or not.


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## kinderfeld (Jan 29, 2006)

Hollywood Weapons Expert: Alec Baldwin Ignored the No. 1 Rule of Gun Safety


Hollywood weapons expert Bryan Carpenter responded of the death and injuries related to Alec Baldwin's discharge of a prop gun while filming by suggesting Baldwin ignored the number rule of gun safety.




www.breitbart.com


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## kinderfeld (Jan 29, 2006)

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1451385208209432582


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## mreynolds (Jan 1, 2015)

Maybe some mad union worker switched the shells?


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## Redlands Okie (Nov 28, 2017)

Even that would not be a good enough excuse for baldwins mistake.


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## Danaus29 (Sep 12, 2005)

Has anyone else noted the irony in the situation? The movie was about an accidental killing.



colourfastt said:


> Could you translate that into English?


You really don't get it?



barnbilder said:


> Always check bore after any reduced power load, or any round that performed unsatisfactorily. It's grade school level stuff. Right there with keep bugger picker off boom button until time to rock, roll and make hole.


Check your barrel after a round doesn't go off like it should. If you don't see light through it, don't try shooting it again.

Keep your finger off the trigger until you are ready to put a hole in something. 

If you can't understand those basic concepts you need more time in the pre-ownership class.


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## mreynolds (Jan 1, 2015)

Danaus29 said:


> Has anyone else noted the irony in the situation? The movie was about an accidental killing.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I thought it was pretty cut and dried too. 

In any language.


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## colourfastt (Nov 11, 2006)

Danaus29 said:


> Has anyone else noted the irony in the situation? The movie was about an accidental killing.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I do own 2 firearms (a 20g double-barreled shotgun (that was owned by one of my great-grandfather's) and a 20g semi-auto shotgun (1 of 2, my brother has the other one) that my grandfather ordered from Germany and my cousin (his granddaughter) brought back because she was living in Germany at the time. I have hunted since I was 10—48 years now—so, the "more time in pre-ownership class" is just snide.


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## Alice In TX/MO (May 10, 2002)

Snide happens.


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## Cornhusker (Mar 20, 2003)

homesteadforty said:


> Certainly you wouldn't let a personal dislike of someone affect your judgement regarding justice would you???
> 
> Anybody else would be sitting in jail waiting for them to sort it out.
> It's true I don't like him, he helped spread lies and hatred and he's a nasty, mean spirited individual, but, you know, he pointed a gun at someone and pulled the trigger.
> ...


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## Cornhusker (Mar 20, 2003)

altair said:


> ^ Five people died in the Capitol riots if that's your 1/6 event.


Including an unarmed woman shot by police.
Imagine if she were not white, cities would still be burning.


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## Riverdale (Jan 20, 2008)

Rule #1 Do not point a weapon at anything you do not want to shoot.
Rule #2 Keep your booger hook off the trigger until you are ready to shoot.
His butt should be in a cell, awaiting trial.


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## mreynolds (Jan 1, 2015)

Redlands Okie said:


> Even that would not be a good enough excuse for baldwins mistake.


Nothing really is that I can think of.


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## GTX63 (Dec 13, 2016)

I wonder if he'll be doing SNL anytime soon?
Maybe he could do his impersonation of Trump claiming he could shoot someone in New York and get away with it.


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## Alice In TX/MO (May 10, 2002)

Post of the decade, right there. Wow!


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## Pony (Jan 6, 2003)

He's a meat puppet. He's not paid to think (which should be obvious to all whenever he makes political commentary).

Someone puts a gun in his hand, he points/shoots. 

Used to call folk like that NTB (Not Too Bright).


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## Terri (May 10, 2002)

Apparently it was not the first accidental discharge on the set: it was the fourth. Also an EARLIER e-mail had been sent complaining about the gun safety issue because there had already been 3 accidental discharges.

I would have thought that Baldwin would have checked the gun himself, but I am not certain that he knows how. He is, after all, anti-gun and that means that he has probably never gone to the range or taken a gun safety course. Common sense is not always common


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## barnbilder (Jul 1, 2005)

I don't care if the grand wizard of the NRA hands me a gun and tells me it's unloaded, I'm checking behind him. Any custody change, check load status of firearm. Don't sweep people, cats, vehicles, chickens, or anything else you don't want to die with the muzzle, loaded, unloaded makes no difference. All guns are always loaded, period, that is how you treat them, even the ones the grand wizard of the NRA handed you unloaded that you checked behind him. These things used to be taught in classrooms, so that nobody had the excuse of being an idiot like Alec Baldwin. It is socially acceptable to decide to never hand an individual a firearm again if they don't check the load status. If they don't know to check the load status, they don't need a firearm in their hand, or they're liable to do something silly, like practice their fast draw and plug a bystander. Alec Baldwin held a firearm, and that firearm killed a person while in his hand. He is criminally negligent. Having a firearm in your hand is a huge responsibility, not unlike being behind the wheel of a car.

Of course the armorer was criminally negligent as well, but imagine if it was a car. Alec Baldwin, drunk, abuses the valet into giving him the key, takes off and runs over a pedestrian. Baldwin is at fault, no matter if the valet is supposed to ensure sobriety of patrons and call them a cab if there is a question. Of course, in this scenario, Baldwin's lawyers would be placing all fault on the valet, just like what is going to happen to the armorer.


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## Pony (Jan 6, 2003)

How long before we hear the "destroy all guns" propaganda?


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## GTX63 (Dec 13, 2016)

In this case, I really don't think you will. 
Hollywood has a different standard for themselves; so many anti gun phobes star in violent action pics where the guns and their results are usually exaggerated for effect. Guns gore and full auto sell.
They know that stuff puts people in seats yet they feel the need to set a different tone for us when it comes to our own personal rights.
If they pick this instance to wag a finger, the message would go against them.


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## Riverdale (Jan 20, 2008)

I have a good idea. Alec Baldwin doing a film as a bull rider.
No stuntmen
No clowns
And give him either Bodacious or Takin' Care of Business to ride

I might pay to see this movie

Call it 'Running Man II" <evil grin>


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## Riverdale (Jan 20, 2008)

Pony said:


> How long before we hear the "destroy all guns" propaganda?


3, 2, 1,


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## mreynolds (Jan 1, 2015)

Riverdale said:


> I have a good idea. Alec Baldwin doing a film as a bull rider.
> No stuntmen
> No clowns
> And give him either Bodacious or Takin' Care of Business to ride
> ...


Eh, we dont want to kill him. Lets just give him Little Yellow Jacket. He was always a gentleman after the ride and never hurt anyone. But during the ride, all bets were off.


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## Danaus29 (Sep 12, 2005)

colourfastt said:


> I do own 2 firearms (a 20g double-barreled shotgun (that was owned by one of my great-grandfather's) and a 20g semi-auto shotgun (1 of 2, my brother has the other one) that my grandfather ordered from Germany and my cousin (his granddaughter) brought back because she was living in Germany at the time. I have hunted since I was 10—48 years now—so, the "more time in pre-ownership class" is just snide.


Hunting and knowing gun safety are two different things. I know people who hunt but who should not have guns. I know people who never hunt but know how to handle guns safely.

And yes, I am that person who makes loud comments when some yakinape points a gun toward another person in the sporting goods store.


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## mreynolds (Jan 1, 2015)

Danaus29 said:


> Hunting and knowing gun safety are two different things. I know people who hunt but who should not have guns. I know people who never hunt but know how to handle guns safely.
> 
> And yes, I am that person who makes loud comments when some yakinape points a gun toward another person in the sporting goods store.


This is true.


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## GTX63 (Dec 13, 2016)

Hunting seems to be the go to analogy, that and possessing Great Uncle Mortimer's old vest Pistol, when some try qualifying themselves to discuss gun safety and the 2nd amendment.
I wonder if they also believe those that say they take ivermectin are qualified to discuss medicine, hmmm?
Or "Follow the Science" yet they believe in more than one gender...


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## GTX63 (Dec 13, 2016)




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## GunMonkeyIntl (May 13, 2013)




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## JeffreyD (Dec 27, 2006)

GunMonkeyIntl said:


> View attachment 101585


That's rough.....but i really like it!!👍👍


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## Kelly Craig (Oct 10, 2021)

He's saying the barrel could be plugged and the next round could launch the item plugging the barrel, or cause the gun to explode.




colourfastt said:


> Could you translate that into English?


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## Kelly Craig (Oct 10, 2021)

GunMonkeyIntl said:


> View attachment 101585


Add another nine.


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