# Discouraged with steer training--any ideas?



## Jan in CO (May 10, 2002)

Got some good ideas from others here, and have tried to implement them, but this nutty steer is still as wild as a range bull. Granddaughter got him as a catch a calf, but he was a year old when the kids were awarded their animals, and wild as a kangaroo. We thought he'd gentle down being in with her last market steer, a total puppy, but nope. He still snorts and paws up dirt every time you go into the pen. He's broken ropes, no amount of sitting there trying to talk to him, attempting to scratch his head--that's as far as you can go, and only for a moment--has worked. 

Someone here suggested tying him to the back of the pickup, and having Ash sit on the tailgate as if leading him, then driving around the pasture. Nice idea, but he broke that rope, too. She is supposed to take him to clinics in November and December, then show him in Denver in January, but I don't see that happening. Have put in a call to the folks that run the show, asking when to call it quits. They will come out and observe his behavior, and how she is dealing with him, but other than that, no suggestions that are new. Has anyone ever had a steer that just CAN'T be gentled? Was he too old to start with? He was twice as large and old as others she's had, and I know that intimidated her to begin with. Ash even asked if we can put a bull ring in him, but I don't have any experience in doing that, how they work or how to use them. Seems like a cruel thing to do to a young animal, but he acts like a bull! Thanks for any ideas, Jan in Co


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## ksfarmer (Apr 28, 2007)

I've seen em that way before. Got a wild streak for some reason and never get over it. Maybe some trauma at a earlier age, maybe just a screw loose. At his age he is big enough to do damage, and I doubt you will ever gentle him. If he is snorting and pawing dirt, I would take care that he doesn't charge and trample your grand daughter.


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## tyusclan (Jan 1, 2005)

If you know of anyone who has a decent sized donkey (doesn't have to be a mammoth, a standard will do) try to borrow it for a few days. Get one of the sisal rope halters with the lead rope made together with the halter. Get the halter on the steer, and tie a bowline around the neck of the donkey. Turn them loose together, and in a day or two you should be able to lead the steer anywhere you want him to go. I've used this method with some pretty wild cattle, and it does work. If for some reason it doesn't work, put him in the freezer.


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## ksfarmer (Apr 28, 2007)

The donkey training works on smaller calves, I'm not too sure on a over a year old steer. Watch he doesn't get the best of the donkey. He will probably out weigh the donkey by a lot.


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## Guest (Aug 22, 2007)

Good lord, I think it is time to cut your losses. If you have done all that you say you have and he is still as nutty as that, it is time for him to hit someone's deep freeze. Far better to do that than have him trample your grand daughter. Find a different steer, there are lots out there that aren't nuts, and finish this guy for your table, or sell him to someone else for that.

Randi


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## jerzeygurl (Jan 21, 2005)

we started ours at birth

he got colostrum and was always bottle fed, kept in pen, he is now out on pasture and drives and carries saddle bags at apx 5 months old


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## dezeeuwgoats (Jan 12, 2006)

Could he be a cryptorchid? (Retained testicle) All his 'bullish' behavior would indicate something along those lines to me.

I wouldn't risk your granddaughter's safety - if she's afraid/intimidated - maybe that's just good ol' common sense and instinct kicking in - she's had other animals, this one is different....get rid of him.

Niki


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## tyusclan (Jan 1, 2005)

ksfarmer said:


> The donkey training works on smaller calves, I'm not too sure on a over a year old steer. Watch he doesn't get the best of the donkey. He will probably out weigh the donkey by a lot.


I've seen donkeys train calves that outweighed them by quite a bit. A donkey is much stronger than it looks. But that is why I suggested at least a standard size donkey, to make sure it could handle the steer. If you've never seen a donkey train one, it's really amazing to see.


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## francismilker (Jan 12, 2006)

I agree with the donkey idea. I've seen a very small burrow train a wild steer twice his size. One question, is the steer fighting the halter? Another, have you been tying him to a sturdy post and letting him stand for awhile everyday? I've found that even the bronciest steer will tame down a bit if they're tied with their head slightly elevated. When there neck gets good and sore, they usually change their tune about slinging their head so much. (this may have to be done several days in a row) You can also get some spring loaded nose tongs and clip them in. These work as the best brake pedal you could have when they decide to drop their head and take you for a ride. You definetly need to have them tied up good before you put the nose tongs in. (they don't like it much at first)

And, yes, there are some steers that are just too wild to tame. Last year, I had one that was absolutely crazy. Was a nervous reck for the kids to show him. He tended to act better at the show when there were other steers to follow. I just always had the kids get in the middle of the pack going in to the ring. He needed a leader and a follower to find his place in the world. Good Luck to you!


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## Cheribelle (Jul 23, 2007)

Go to the day old bread store. Buy a bag of bread. Start hand feeding it. It is amazing how they will come around for that!


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## redroper60 (May 5, 2006)

when halter breaking colts we use a duoble thick nylon halter and two bull snaps with a swivel to go to the halter of the colt. Tieing up to good stout post with stout halter should work. Friends break bulls to lead that way. My donkey will lead anything to get his cookie. My dad had knee surgery so we put the donkey and the yearling colt in the areana and the donkey had that colt broke to lead in no time to get the cookie that my dad would carry to the other end of the areana for him.


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## Jan in CO (May 10, 2002)

Talked to one of the women who is in charge of the record books for the catch a calf project, and she told me one 4H member took his calf (from this same batch) to the county fair and it was so unruly it took several grown men to try to contain him. One got a broken arm, another torn ligaments in his arm and shoulder. She said several kids were having problems. Sigh. No option for selling him or putting him in the freezer, as he doesn't belong to the 4H member until they arrive at the National Western Stock Show in January. Part of the rules. This project only gets them market price, no special livestock sale, so I'm wondering if all this is worth making 6 cents per pound! It cost her 83 cents per pound to raise the last one, and the market price was 89 cents. Fortunately there was a junior livestock sale, so she got quite a bit more for that one.

The club beef leader suggested putting him in a much smaller pen, no larger than 12 x 12, and seeing if his attitude improves. We'll try the bread deal, too and see how he responds to that. I'm beginning to think he MAY be a cryptorchid, or have been cut very late, so thinks he's Mr. Studly the bull!

Jan in Co


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## montysky (Aug 21, 2006)

At this point, put weight on him then when he is finished- turn him into beef. I don't want to see you or your granddaughter hurt or killed by this animal.


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## francismilker (Jan 12, 2006)

People can brag and boast all they want to about different breeds and good tasting meat, but I've never had any better than a "finished" show calf. I'd freezer him after hearing about the crazy lineage he came from. It's hard to get the crazy out of his blood if sire and dam were the same way.


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## Jan in CO (May 10, 2002)

Well, we tried putting the nutsy steer into a smaller area, and while I was away for a few days, got a call from Granddaughter saying he'd gone over the fence into the dairy goats. Luckily (or not, depending on your viewpoint), he didn't injure himself or any of them. We cannot put him in the freezer, sell him or dispose of him in any way, as he is a 'catch a calf' and ownership is not transferred to the kids who catch the calf, until the show, which is at the National Western Stock Show in Denver in January 08. We're about to the end with him, and will call them tomorrow to make arrangements to return him this weekend, I guess. I just hope they don't try to pass him on to another 4H'r. 

I'm not sure who will take him back, as these people are all just doing a part of the job to manage the program. He came from Wyoming originally, and I'm sure not taking him there! Wish we COULD just put him in the freezer that would solve everyone's problem~ Jan in Co


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## Guest (Sep 5, 2007)

hmm, well, there must be something to fall back on if a kid gets a nutso steer. They are not all going to be managable, and it is not fair to expect a kid to have to deal with one like you have. If nothing else, you should be able to "trade him off" and get a different steer.


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## tinknal (May 21, 2004)

Probably a little late but every time you break a halter you reinforce the behavior. Use multiple halters if necessary but never let them get the idea that they can break a halter. 

I feel for you. One year my heifer project in 4-H my heifer bolted, jumped the fairgrounds fence,ran down the road and JUMPED IN A LAKE!!!. She then swam to the middle of the lake! Ended up taking 3rd place..........LOL


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## ArmyDoc (May 13, 2007)

He's a year old? Eat him and start over. 

This time start much younger. Consider getting a bottle feeder from a local dairy. It'll grow up with you as it's "mother". Course, good luck if you're planning on ever butchering it. It's hard to sell, much less butcher anything I raised from the bottle. Attachments generally work both ways.


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## Jan in CO (May 10, 2002)

Tinkgal, I had to laugh at the mental picture of your heifer swimming to the middle of the lake! Must have been difficult to judge that one! 

Armydoc, The catch a calf program works like this: Kids submit an application to participate, are chosen, then have to catch a calf running around in an arena with a bunch of other calves. Halter the thing, pull, drag or push it to the finish line to establish their order to choose the final calf they get. On a certain date, usually in the fall, they go and select a calf from the rancher who was chosen by the comittee to sell calves to them. THEN the kids take the calf home and raise it, getting title to the calf at the sale date, keeping the money. No choice as to breed or age of calf. Ash has done another two other calves, both much younger. IF we return this calf, I'm sure they won't exchange it for another one. She'll just be out of the program. Two kids had their calves die, and were given another one from the same herd, same age, etc. She'd be starting over with one 18 months old if they gave her another one from that herd, and that's not a good option. 

We'll see what they have to say today when I call them. Wish we could just put him in the freezer! These are beef cattle, not dairy. We've done the bottle calf from dairy before, and had no problem eating it. Raised two, sold one and put the other in the freezer. I didn't band them well enough, and when they got older, they got a bit too frisky, so I was more than glad to send one to freezer camp! Thanks for the ideas, tho.
Jan in Co


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## tinknal (May 21, 2004)

Jan, you are in Colorado. Find a REAL cowboy, with a good horse, and hire him for a day or two. Don't just hire him to train the steer, hire him to train the steer AND you.


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## Jan in CO (May 10, 2002)

Sorry for making you tinkGAL instead of Tinknal! Not awake this morning, I suppose! My hubby IS a real cowboy, with a horse, by the way, just nothing seems to have worked with this crazy steer! We have neighbors who rope, too and no one has any options left for him. I'm the city gal in the bunch! Jan in Co


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## tinknal (May 21, 2004)

Jan in CO said:


> Sorry for making you tinkGAL instead of Tinknal! Not awake this morning, I suppose! My hubby IS a real cowboy, with a horse, by the way, just nothing seems to have worked with this crazy steer! We have neighbors who rope, too and no one has any options left for him. I'm the city gal in the bunch! Jan in Co


Oh, this just gets easier all the time. Tell the cowboy in your bed that breeding season is over until that steer is halterbroke!


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## francismilker (Jan 12, 2006)

tinknal said:


> Oh, this just gets easier all the time. Tell the cowboy in your bed that breeding season is over until that steer is halterbroke!


WAY TOO MUCH INFORMATION! You can't hold a cowboy accountable for boycow's failures!


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## Guest (Sep 5, 2007)

Personally, I believe there are some animals that children(possibly even adults) should not work with. This steer sounds like one of them. To me, my children are too important to risk having them work with/around this type of animal. At the very least you will end up with a discouraged kid that does not want to work with cattle if you force the issue. Or you could end up with a trip to emergency. It just is not worth it. Better to have a disappointed kid than an injured one. There is always next year. 

The whole point of 4-H/FFA or whatever is to teach the child and for the child to enjoy what he is doing. By having to work with a nutcase animal you are mostly just discouraging the kid, and it is no fun when you have to watch your back all the time, or worry about where/when the steer is going to drag you to/around again.


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## Durbs (Jan 2, 2006)

Not sure if you have already done this but in case you haven't: I would try the multiple haulter thing and snug him up tight. He needs to keep his head up. I would then keep him there all day. If you walk up there and he still snorts at you while tied up make him stay longer. Keep him in a small pen. When he's stood there all day with no food or water he may be a little more agreeable, lead him to water and food, may take someone stronger to do this but thats where he will want to go.Then tie him back up not as tight till morning then lead him over for water and food. Tie him up tight again if he's still being a poo, if he's better then looser, pretty soon he will associate food and water with you and you will be his best friend. This is what we did with our daughters steer. Just don't hit him. It took us about a week of this and by show time she could sit on him, huge difference.


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## ksfarmer (Apr 28, 2007)

Quit messin with the da*n critter before someone gets hurt. Get rid of him. Sometimes one is just crazy , and no fancy methods of taming him is going to work. I don't care what the program is, it isn't worth the grief you could have.


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## Jan in CO (May 10, 2002)

Well, progress! We finally made contact with the correct person in charge of the program, and he agrees that the best thing to do with this crazy steer is take him to the sale barn, with the payment going to the stock show. They are looking at some options to get her another steer, either this year or in January, so she doesn't completly lose out. Thanks everyone for your advice and support. We've just never encountered one this crazy before! Jan in CO


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## ksfarmer (Apr 28, 2007)

Glad its working out for you. It doesn't happen often , but cattle are like people sometimes. Some just don't fit the program.


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## arcticow (Oct 8, 2006)

There is one thing that is extreme, would not suggest it except in such a case. Please do not accuse me of advocating cruelty. It does work. Pen the animal w/o water for 3 nights (&2 days), water w/animal on halter on 3rd morning.


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## francismilker (Jan 12, 2006)

Not trying to hijack a thread. But ponder on this one. My daughter has been leading her market steer around as easy as leading a dog for thirty days until last Monday evening. She hollered at me and said he would'nt lead. I thought to myself, "I'll lead him". Well, I done just the opposite. He all of a sudden just locked up and wouldn't budge an inch. We finally had to pull (literally pull) him back into his lot and I figured he'd be good and sore headed the next day. He wasn't. I noticed some shallow breeding so I called the vet to get him diagnosed with pneumonia. The vet gave him a shot of some long-lasting anti-biotics and said he'd be fine. 
Only problem is: yesterday was the official weigh-in at the county fair. If the animal doesn't get weighed, he doesn't qualify for the county livestock show in the Spring. 
Me and several other muscled him through the scales and he came in at 722lbs. He still won't lead over a couple of feet before he locks up and he's mostly over the sickness. I've only got about a month during his warm-up period before he goes on full feed for the "rate-of-gain" competition. Any suggestions on what I can do to get this critter leading? He's still very gentle and not crazy acting. He just won't lead. Very depressing since he was such a good leader before all of this.......Thanks.


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## Jan in CO (May 10, 2002)

Francismilker, our granddaughter's other steers were like that, too, just like big puppies, unlike this monster! 

I've watched the experienced market beef kids when their steers won't lead in the show ring, and they take hold of the tail and the lead rope at the same time, pulling the tail in the direction they want the steer to go. USUALLY that works to get them to take a step or two and keep walking. Or offer them a piece of cow cake, just out of their reach.

Glad you got that one weighed in! I was really surprised at how much feed it takes for those critters to feed them for rate of gain! Ashley didn't win that, but did get reserve grand champion in the carcass contest here. Last year she placed 7th out of 45 in that category. Got her an extra 180.00 in premium money. Good luck with that steer!

Jan in Co


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