# Frustrated with our aging parents



## mpillow (Jan 24, 2003)

This is probably more of a family topic but I'm posting here as I think my husband and I are coming from a "survivalist/prepping" point of view.

My husbands mother is in her early 70's and her health is failing after falling because of her little 3 legged dog about this time last year. The dog should have been put out of its misery 2 years earlier but because the dog was a gift from her daughter-> MIL was hesitant to do it. My husband offered several times to take care of it for her only to be met with snarky refusal...in our world animals are put out of their misery and expense for longterm conditions are NOT even considered.

MIL's handyman/groundskeeper (she is house wealthy)died right before she fell last year....so we found her another guy that was fabulous...well he had an accident this Spring and is now paralyzed...MIL gets shingles(chix pox) her kidneys fail, looses eye sight due to shingles....she has lost 30 pounds down to 90#...we mow the lawn all summer, put the dock and boat in/out, my brother turns/water off on to the guest cottage and fixes her furnace...my kids rake her leaves, bring her wood in, and I send food weekly. She is 45min(south) away. I also take her to DR as needed. *Despite the fact that both her daughter and her other son drive by her house 2 times daily to go to/from work...both make more than twice our income and capable physically.* Daughter has no children and the other son has two boys a teenager and a 9yo both healthy, smart, albeit overindulged.

But here's the thing....she is calling on say Friday and wanting jobs done at the drop of a hat...now we don't mind helping but we have to fit it in...my husband works 3 SAT's a month, my son is working for my brother(wife has breast cancer) and my daughter helps my sister and my mom 2 weekends a month.

My own parents are getting to that point too where they are house wealthy but not physically able to get things done. They are 45min (North) away.

Our little place (farm) has a certain number of things needing doing 7 days a week...and they are getting "back burnered" as you can imagine...MIL wanted husband to rake the snow off her roof Sunday and was po'ed when he said no because the butcher was here! Sent our son to do it even though BIL offered to do it today after work...she did not want to wait one day:flame:

I'm not wanting to shirk my responsibilities to my parents, MIL but I honestly feel like in order to survive and meet our parents (all 3 are used to "having" anything they want when they want it) needs/wants we are going to have to divide our house...I to my parents and my husband to his mothers...

The situation is causing some stress in our house as is this economy. It would easy for me to take care of all 3 parents, my own family and still have my little farm if MIL would move to my parents place (acreage for farming) but that's just not going to happen.....but something has to give because the fixed incomes and big houses aren't cutting it _and there's only so much they as old people set in their ways will give up_.....I feel like we not only do for them but we also make all the sacrifice lifestyle wise too....

I'm not "employed" so its assumed that I "can do" whenever...I'm so frustrated 'cause when the economy tanks driving in both directions may not be feasible both in time and money....its difficult to discuss with them without feelings being an issue...

And our house is too small, beneath them to live in...Martha Stewart would find their respective homes quite cozy...

SIGH!


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## Common Tator (Feb 19, 2008)

We cared for my in-laws at the end of their lives. It was in their house. Difficult. My MIL was sweet and gracious. My FIL was a demanding, selfish snoopy guy, and very set in his ways. 

Now the in-laws are gone. We have offered my parents the opportunity to build themselves a house at our ranch, or move a mobile home there. Mom would do it in a heartbeat. Dad is kind of angry that we even suggested it. We are thinking he may change his mind when he finally loses his drivers license. Mom and dad live in another state. They can't care for their home anymore. It would be easier all the way around for them if they were here, and I think they would enjoy California. I have a developmentally disaled sister who lives with Mom and Dad, and she would stay here with us when Mom and Dad are gone.

If your MIL is house rich, perhaps she would be willing to sell her house and build a new house at your place, if that is a viable option.


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## DaleK (Sep 23, 2004)

Not sure what to say except I hear you. My parents are younger (66) but both have poor health. I'm also partners with them in the farm. Dad doesn't want to stop farming but isn't capable and still expects to get paid as if he's working full time (and there's no money for anybody else) so I get to do his work and mine as well while he sits and gives orders. Then I do all the maintenance on their house as well as a rental house they own as well as (sometimes) my own house and half the time I'm even ending up paying for the repairs on the houses they own because they won't cough it up when the bill comes. I've been doing this almost 10 years already, plus 4 kids under 7, I can't do it much longer.


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## Ohiogal (Mar 15, 2007)

Sounds like you need to have a family dinner, and then an open discussion right there in front of everybody about what the "needs" are. As for the daughter who does not help, there is at least one like that in every family. I'd be inviting her to the dinner, too.
Despite the unpleasantries, its best to have the talk with all people in attendance, and make it clear what the issues are. Start with "we love you..." and end with "this is what we have to do to make this work". Do not get emotional, if you can help it. And take it slow. Nothing is going to resolve this without talking.


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## WindowOrMirror (Jan 10, 2005)

I wonder if my parents were ever frustrated with me? I mean, was there ever a time when I was emotionally unready to deal with my surroundings? Perhaps when I was physically unready to do the same? Did this period of time last a while and were my parents "put upon" to care for me this entire time? If so, does it not stand to reason that I reciprocate?

Yes, naturally you speak with the rest of the members of the family, and with your parents, to see what care plan makes the most sense. Yeah... it's really rough... but it's our job as children with parents in the later years.

R


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## AngieM2 (May 10, 2002)

WoM - there is a practical side to this, so please don't be too hard on the OP.

Yes, we need to help our parents but they have to give a little bit, so not to destroy our family. And if there are other siblings, then by George, they should help also.

Angie


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## DW (May 10, 2002)

I have no words of wisdom...we are down to only one MIL and she's the toughest. She is 60 mi east, belongs in assisted living and my hubby only kid in state. I could write a book! My parents were not like this woman. The only thing I can say is my husband has called his sisters, in OK & TX, and said, you need to help. They have both shown up when asked...Never hurts to ask.


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## unregistered29228 (Jan 9, 2008)

I agree that it's our responsibility to help our aging parents even when they're grouchy or high maintenance. We've offered many times to have my inlaws come live in a small house on our farm. They're in poor health and the old house they live in needs so much money and work, which they can't do. We also tried to convince them to sell the farm and move to a retirement community where they'd have their own house and privacy, plus company from people their own ages. We even offered to have them come live IN our house, although we don't really have room for two more people. So far they won't do any of the things we've suggested, and the day is coming when they will HAVE to do something.

I agree with Ohiogal - sit them down and talk to them. Include the other siblings who live close by and don't help. It takes everyone in the family doing their share - from the parents compromising on their lifestyle and house, to ALL the siblings pulling their load. It's not fun to grow old and have to depend on others, but it's a fact of life. 

But in the end, if nobody is willing to budge - you have to look after your own family. You don't mention whether you have kids, but in our case that's what we put first. From a prepping/survival standpoint we'd take in family or do what is needed, but they would have to come to us.


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## Aintlifegrand (Jun 3, 2005)

All siblings on both sides are going to have to meet and figure this out. With that said... 

I have the opposite problem.. One thing, I would give anything just to be able to do just one thing for my father.. I cannot as he is no longer here..he died at 68 before he needed help..Now there is my Mom... never having had to do anything such as handle calling people for repairs etc ( Dad did it all) she literally doesn't know how to take care of business..but instead of reaching out and asking one of us to help her..she lets things go. I am always going to the house and finding something else broken.. something needing done.. and yet she hasn't said a word... that is my frustration. I built a house with room for her.. and yet at nearly 72 I cannot get her to move to the farm...:grit:


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## springvalley (Jun 23, 2009)

Welcome to the club, This has been a tough year for us also, my parents getting way up in years. Dad is 87 and in ok health for his age, mom in late 70`s and has had cancer for 14 years. Same deal, living in a huge house that I own, mom not able to care for herself anymore, and dad wearing himself out. I live the closest, 1/4 mile down the road, and farm , so I don`t really work for anyone, thats what I hear anyway . We had a meeting with my siblings this early summer with all but one of my siblings about what to do with the situation. My parents were not able to afford to have someone to come in to help, and no one seemed to want to take time out of their lives to help.So it was decided they needed to go to the nursing home. I was not really in favor of that but with two kids under 4 years, I have got to choose. Well summer came and mom and dad went to the home, mom not liking it at all, and dad being the trooper he is, saying sometimes you have to do things you don`t want to. I have grown more fond of my fater in his later years much more than I did when I was a kid. I seriously doubt mother will last much longer as she hates being there in the first place. And I beleive she has just givin up, dad on the other hand is doing very well and has all the nurses wraped around his little finger. So I feel your pain and understand your situation, and you will make the best of your situation. Good luck and God Bless you , Marc


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## mpillow (Jan 24, 2003)

FWIW I know I frustrated my parents growing up but I was a good kid and have always gone out of my way to help...I've never asked them for food, money or other and have provided them all of the above.

My 3 children are the "favored" grandchildren because they are good kids, helpful and polite always. But MIL is not that involved with the kids because she is a little "snobbish" and "Standoffish". My parents are very "into" having the kids visit for company not just because they need help. My kids go for weeks at a time to my parents but my MIL would be "put out" to have them...they might make a mess kind of thing.:shrug: Which is why the brother and sister to my DH don't stop in as often as they should....the daughter is 5 miles away...and has an apartment above her garage that would be perfect for MIL, daughter is an LPN also.:viking: But she and her mother are two peas in a pod and fight/bicker almost constantly.

As far as selling houses, my parents place has been for sale for 2 years and MIL place is in the same price bracket...short of giving the houses away there is no good solution. And being that all 3 are "status" types I don't see them living in a condo or similar especially not my MIL...she's very intolerant. I think it would be a stretch for my own mother to live with her wicked ways if I had them all in the same house!

It's going to get worse even if the economy remains stable and if the economy worsens I guess some hard choices will be made...
I'd prefer to deal with things before crisis but I don't think they all want to see the bigger picture and we are sort of "black sheep" and only counted when needed....

My parents want us to live with them....they've said so but its too far to commute to DH work, let alone make do for his mother and we have a good setup here.


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## Terri (May 10, 2002)

When my Aunt fell ill, my parents netwoeked with the other relatives to decide who does what. It was amazing what other people vplenteered to do, once the list of needed jopbs were put into a list and set before them to choose from.

Some people were willing to drive, some people were willing to do outside things, some people were willing to to do a bit of lifting.

It made a big job bearable


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## where I want to (Oct 28, 2008)

Your parents are not children- they simply can not be told what to do. My mom insisted on her own way but she also bore the consequences for her choice. She ended up in a nursing home because of a fall in a place she should not have been- she wouldn't ask for help when she needed it. Then she ended up dying from a fall from her wheel chair because she refused to let them belt her into it like everyone else. The family had told the nursing home to allow her to choose if they possible could- that is what made her happiest.
I was lucky in having parents who were very, very independent. I helped where I could but they did not make it easy - they did not want to compromise. And they were willing to live with the results. I never heard one complaint about needing something and not getting it. 
I would suspect you MIL is lonely and maybe frightened about her situation- she is maybe afraid of losing control over her own life. Maybe a discussion that is not put off is a good idea. She will make her own choices but you should let her know what is possible for you as you make your choices too.

Although parents do have a reasonable expectation of their children, age does not confer sainthood. You have a right not to be treated as a child.

Maybe there is a senior organization who can mediate or find help she needs?

I just noticed your location- this was American advice- if you all are Chinese, then you're more stuck than I thought.


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## mpillow (Jan 24, 2003)

nono I live in China, Maine...very American...I think my parents/MIL have plenty of the American entitlement going on....

Trust me whenever we step on MIL toes we hear "I'll write you out of the will" but DH and I have said I don't care about $$ just want you to be happy and safe and not at your long distance beck and call....


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## soulsurvivor (Jul 4, 2004)

DH and I both have our own perspective on this and we've both decided we do not want to be a burden on our son. He has his life and we should be responsible enough to make plans now, while we still can. So that's what we're doing. We're still in the process of getting this house set up as a temporary nursing home for each of us if the need arises for that. We also have well documented instructions for each other and our son on what to do if one or both of us becomes unable to continue in a normal lifestyle. There's not going to be any guesswork and there's not going to be any intrusion on our son's family. No guilty feelings allowed for anyone. I personally have no patience for an older generation that has the money to make life simpler for all, including themselves, and yet didn't make plans for how that would happen. It's the ultimate selfish act I hope to avoid.


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## ChristyACB (Apr 10, 2008)

I really feel for you and your situation. It is unfortunately all too common. I've got a story for you.

When I was a teenager, working in the garden with my grandparents and either complaining or angling for a new dress or something like that, my grandmother would sometimes stop and say to me, "These are your halcyon days, you know. You should enjoy it more."

I never really understood that at all. I sort of figured that she meant childhood or teen-hood or something.

It was 15 years later that I understood what she meant. When I would come home on the weekends, a very VERY long drive, to spell her with her Mother who was dying of alzheimer's (caused by the cure of another minor disease in the 60s). She was always so very tired when I got there on friday night. Luckily, everyone lived on houses on the farm so it was maybe 1/4 mile from our house where her mother was. Great-Grandpa was still hale and hearty but his heart was broken for seeing the love of his life going away like that so we did all her personal things to spare him that.

One day, I was trying to keep Grandma Elma from eating the salt and pepper shakers while my Grandmommy made lunch and she came out and stroked my hair and said she was sorry it was ending so early for me. I asked what she meant and she said my halcyon days. 

Life is so weird. We get a brief time where we get to think of nothing but boys and dresses and homework and getting a second piece of dessert. But then it is our turn to care for children and then, our parents and grandparents. Eventually, if we are very lucky, it is our turn to be taken care of one more time by our own children and grandchildren. 

My Grandma Elma was a chore for the last 2 years. A hard to bear chore. Sometimes after a long week knowing all that I was leaving undone to come down there was almost too much. 

BUT I'd see a glimpse of the woman who let me carry off the cabbage worms because I thought they'd be babies someday, or who carried the platter of fish in all decorated just for me since I caught the only fish that day, or who ran out of the house like an Olympiad when I got my face cut very badly on a swingset and who made me laugh on the way to the hospital even though she could see my cheekbone and eye socket.

And then I didn't mind cleaning up the poop she painted the walls with in the 60 seconds it took to get her meds ready. I didn't care that she spewed filth out of her mouth and said horrible things.

As hard as it is to face, we owe them a duty. As much as we owe our children or ourselves. It is the way we evolved and became people with compassion. By caring for others as we ourselves were cared for.

Yes, your situation is one in which it seems you have a whole lot of very selfish people who have totally forgotten that they were once messy babies that these people stayed up nights caring for. They need to be reminded. And as for your MIL, you may be able to get mediation from a senior group. It isn't unique to her to react that way, to constantly test and seek validation by ordering people around. It simply confirms for her that she has resources and control. Moving in with you is something she may realize she needs to do deep down, but that is essentially saying to herself that this is the last thing she will do on her own and that she will never be an adult again. Very very hard to do.

I wish you the best and I wish for you a renewing of patience. Another poster gave the best advice. Family meeting. It isn't about you coming in as the black sheep and demanding help or asking for it like it is a favor. It is about you saying exactly what you're facing with time, resources and patience and that eventually, without sharing the load, you may come to a point where you just can't anymore. A photo album with their childhood pictures is an excellent tool if they need reminding where they came from.


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## Spinner (Jul 19, 2003)

You need to learn to delegate some of the work to the ones who live close. I know it's hard to make changes once a pattern has been set, but unless you drag the others in, you'll be the one to do everything. 

Talk to them, let them know how much stress this is putting on your family. Be prepared with a complete list of all things that need done. Don't ask them to offer to do something, give them the option of choosing from either mowing or laundry, and doctor visits or house cleaning, etc. 

People simply will NOT offer to do something unless they have a specific choice to choose from. Give them that choice. If they try to weasel out of making a choice, then simply tell them MIL has a doctor appt on Tuesday and you can't be there to take her, they'll have to either take her or make arrangements to get her there by some other method. 

It sounds like they know you'll step up to the plate so they won't have to. Take away that comfort from them. Let them know that it's not that you don't want to, but that you have another obligations and can't be there every time they need help. 

Once you drag them in and get them started doing some of the work, then maybe they'll find other things to do without you having to drag them to it.


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## Ann-NWIowa (Sep 28, 2002)

I'm not saying this to be mean, but you have your lives to live. You can provide a certain amount of help to her, however, you need to put limits on it. A family meeting with all children and mom to discuss who can take care of what and when. Just because you are not employed off the farm does not mean you are not fully employed on the farm and everyone needs to understand that. Also, they need to understand your financial limitations on helping. 

This is another instance of people not being able to take advantage of you unless you let them. Just say no when you need to as far as chores go. NO we can't. Or no we can't now. NO is a powerful word, use it. Don't let her guilt you into anything. 

My m-i-l is in a nursing home because she broke her hip. I won't go into how that happened I'll just say that it shouldn't have happened. We saw that she was headed for nursing home and put her name on the waiting list for one 3 blocks from where we live. Dh visits several times a week and I visit on the weekend. She's not happy about being there but bad choices tend to have bad results. 

There are all kinds of assisted living apartments or condo's that provide outside maintenance. If she cannot (or you cannot) find a handyman to take care of her needs, then she will need to make a choice as to where she wants to live in order to stay independent. 

I'm fortunate in that my mom is 88 and still lives independently. Also, there is absolutely no chance she would ever be willing to live with me or near me or let me help her as long as my youngest sister is available. Its unfortunate for my ds, but certainly takes me off the hook. One of my nephews and his wife take care of most of mom's home maintenance.


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## texican (Oct 4, 2003)

In such a situation, I'd want an ironclad will, or better yet, a living trust, where you get everything, in exchange for helping out and taking care of them.

I wanted some land my parents owned, but wasn't really using. We made a deal... I'd build one major project (patio, barn, shop, outbuilding, etc.) each year, and help out with anything they needed doing... and the land would be mine someday.

My sisters, after the fact, weren't too cool with the setup, but it was written in the will, and that's the way it was/is.

I'd talk frankly. If the other siblings don't plan on helping, they shouldn't share in the assets after your parent's pass away (may the live a long long life).


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## Freeholder (Jun 19, 2004)

ChristyABC, that was a beautiful post -- I wish more people could see it.

My daughter and I live with my grandmother so that she won't have to go to an assisted living home or something like that -- Grandma is 96 (and really doing pretty well, considering her age). I love Grandma, but it hasn't been a bed of roses -- like some of the relatives you all have mentioned, she still has to be in charge, and sometimes I feel like she sees me as a retarded five-year-old, micromanaging everything I do. This is a little rough since I had my own home for nearly thirty years before coming to live with her.  Then there are sometimes the feelings that I've put my own life on hold in order to come here and stay with her. If we hadn't come here, by now I would have a home of my own (probably a tiny cabin, but better a tent of your own than a mansion that belongs to someone else!); as a result of choosing to come here and help Grandma out, I will be a lot older when we do have to start over again. However, I believe that this is what God wanted me to do, and where He wants me to be at this time. 

The other thing that I wanted to say is that the economy is likely to force some changes in the way families function. We are very likely going to HAVE to go back to some form of multi-generational living as a norm, rather than everyone having their own space like we do now. That means people are going to have to learn to live together again, and figure out where everyone fits in the 'family economy' (which doesn't necessarily mean money, just the way the family functions).

Kathleen


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## tiffnzacsmom (Jan 26, 2006)

How long have you been married to your husband? If its been more than two or three years then you have known how your mother in law and her other children are and should not be surprised or upset when they become more of who they are as years pass. I had the conversation with my father tonight, at some point in the rapidly nearing future I will be the sole person to care for my parents and step-mother, if I am alive. My father is a realist and went through many of these issues with his own parents and will not visit them on me. My step-mother will need someone to oversee her financial needs as she has never done so and at 60 that isn't likely to change. 

Forgive me if you weren't clear but it seems like you want others to fit your agenda, and unfortunately life does not work the way we wish. Accept your extended family the way they are or step back and do not do so much those are truly the only choices you have.


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## mpillow (Jan 24, 2003)

texican said:


> In such a situation, I'd want an ironclad will, or better yet, a living trust, where you get everything, in exchange for helping out and taking care of them.
> 
> I wanted some land my parents owned, but wasn't really using. We made a deal... I'd build one major project (patio, barn, shop, outbuilding, etc.) each year, and help out with anything they needed doing... and the land would be mine someday.
> 
> ...


This is the situation with my own parents...the house and land will be mine but I am the youngest and I helped them to buy it and I've promised to keep them out of nursing home.

Oh trust me! I've been married to my husband for just about 16years....I've known what his mom was from day one...but until just recently his brother and sister lived out of state...Pennsylvania and North Carolina so being the only ones in state we did the bulk of stuff that the handy-man didn't. 
Her latest attempt at having a handyman has left her un-trusting of anyone...someone her daughter found:nono: His sister moved back about 7 years ago but lived rather wild for 3-4 of those years...his brother retired Marine corps moved 2 year back here.

I've asked my husband to talk to his family but he says every time he tries it turns ugly. His mother and sister are 2 of the most self-centered crabby people you ever want to meet, let them have a mixed drink and WATCH OUT:croc:

Another thing... MIL always wants to pay for gas etc. and we are not that way...we always refuse...and I try to send her foods that she likes donuts, home canned soup and she is very appreciative...I may not "like" her but for my husband's sake I will help.

And, no, I really don't think this situation is unique, but I'd like to have a game plan setup because I think that our economic/political situation is unique and could bring things to a head rather quickly.

It's good to hear how some of you have dealt with this in your own lives.:bow: It's a great sacrifice and honor for sure.


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## Pink_Carnation (Apr 21, 2006)

I would start accepting the gas money....it makes the person being helped feel better. 

On the flip side.....how many of us will be willing to move in with our kids or make changes when we can't handle things by ourselves anymore. Independent attitudes can be good to a point but they can also create problems.


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## hintonlady (Apr 22, 2007)

Set fair personal boundaires, express them honeslty and politely and then enforce them. Don't get guilted into things you really do not want to do.

IE: "I have one full day to offer you per week, please have a list ready. If you WANT more please call siblings and ask them. If you NEED more help you NEED to make some tough decisions. You are welcome to move closer so I can help you more. I have my own respnsibilities that I cannot neglect any longer."

Although aging and ailing the elderly are still adults who should be reponsible for themselves. (unless medical or physical disability prevent it) In the event they need extra help it is up to them to ask for it graciously and if need be to lessen their own burden on others. Expecting others to sacrifice in order to maintain an unreasonable lifestyle is a bit unfair.


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## GoldenCityMuse (Apr 15, 2009)

Really nice post Christy, that sums it up pretty completely.

Texican has a good point as well, there needs to be some recompense for your time.

And hubby needs to take charge a bit more. It's ghard with family, but has to be done, and it is better with him than you talking to your in-laws.


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## Aintlifegrand (Jun 3, 2005)

ChristyACB said:


> I really feel for you and your situation. It is unfortunately all too common. I've got a story for you.
> 
> When I was a teenager, working in the garden with my grandparents and either complaining or angling for a new dress or something like that, my grandmother would sometimes stop and say to me, "These are your halcyon days, you know. You should enjoy it more."
> 
> ...


What a beautiful story and so well said...My eyes and heart are full...


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## larellynm (Jul 5, 2005)

Hello,
I have worked with countless families dealing with the frustration of caregiving. I have also felt the same frustration when I was a caregiver. Dont let people guilt you into killing yourself, set boundaries and communicate with your family and the care receiver(s). What hasnt been addressed in this topic is the fact that caregivers tend to die before the care receivers do. You need to take care of yourself for your spouse and family.
I have found a book and a website that might interest you. It is called "Share the Care" and you can go to the site sharethecare.org It has step by step ways in which to start a family dialogue for the person who needs it. there is another site too that may help is lotsahelpinghands.com an internet site that helps people communicate with each other to spread the caregiving out and get some family involved in caregiving. 
Hope this helps,
Larellyn


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## mpillow (Jan 24, 2003)

Larellyn--
Thanks for the links...checking them out today!


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## Colorado (Aug 19, 2005)

I am the aging parent. Look at the frustration from their point of view. I wanted my son to go look at the house couple blocks from him and he would not and I could not drive up to look as could not see well enough to drive by then. We could do better than that he says. House he offers to rent me has a 2 foot wide bathroom door. No back door but a patio door of dinning area which has a nasty step. Said did not have a step and I tell him it sure looks like it to me. Said he would look. He would fix it I am sure but I do not think I can handle a sliding door. So front door to get out trash one has to use it and go around the house through gate to the alley to put out trash. You have to track through the frontroom and dining area to get to the kitchen. If I was working in back yard would have to go around and come in the front. I would have to carry a key at all times or lock my self out I would think. Could not safely leave it unlocked. Kitchen cupboards to not go to ceiling and are dust catchers that way. One kitchen wall is useless as has folding doors to cover the washer and dryer. No there is no counter space and few cupboards that way. What little counter space will be used for miscrowave and dish draining rack. No room for fridge/freeze has tiny fridge or my wringer washer. No places to put things. No shelves but he says shelf in the closet. Some in the closet with the hot water heater. Fancier house with heat to each room and vents in the floor so things do not fit. Has more floor space than my house on the level but my things will not fit as it is so chopped up. He said he can take off folding doors and store and that would has the washer and dryer in plain site in the kitchen. I tell therm I have to have a freezer to live out there . Say put it out side and I say too cold to use in winter to go out and get anything. This is better then a senior apts there. Why should I be miserable and have to toss out most of my things. I have thrashed 100's of books. I tell him it will cost me $5000 to be able to move into that house to be able to live in it. Shelving, book cases, computer desk, insulated drapes and such. If I get down to wheel chair I could not get in to the bathroom. What happens then. Yes the house could be ramped as low enough. I have only the floor plan and the vents for heat not marked. I have said I would have to have the shelves built in one bedroom to use for pantry/storage. He says buy them like they have one in their back room. Very nice shelf. I tell him they are only 18" wide and she said 24" It is 18" he emails and couldn't I use 18" . You lose too much storage really that way. So far he has not said he has found any 24" shelving. Shelving will have to be built to fit the closet for canned stuff. I am too old to build and sew the stuff needed. Hiring it done runs in to money. So far I have not found a house I can buy near him. Guess this is the best I can find at this time. So shelves and such have to be free standing and not nailed to walls like I did here. 

Only my younger son is willing to help me. Said I should have a plan in case I can not be here alone. My daughter was given the chance to have a say what I should do. She had nothing to say on it in anyway. Older son has all he can do taking care of a sick wife. He offered me couple days work in moving but now even that I doubt he can do as his wife has breast cancer on top of all the rest of her troubles. Yes, the house next to him is up for sale. Yes, I do like his town better. He needs help. Yes, we old fplks do not want to move. I will not inless I have too. He said give him 4 months notice on the house to get the rent out and get it ready. New carpet and vynal and paint and all that good stuff. I told them I think I am okay till I am 80. 78 now. I have macular degeneration in both eyes now. I got through the cataract surgery and can see with that eye okay to drive. My younger son made 3 trips down here to get me through that. I know I would have to arrange my time when they come to the city to shop that is when I could. It takes so many hours for the trip I would not shop like I do. I would stock what I had to have. Food, vitamins and doctors for me would be about it. And what would I do in a small town and not know any one. No where to go and no where to shop. It has a food store that is high. Living cost more there. Colder and longer winters. I have been trying to down size. This is not fun.


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## ChristieAcres (Apr 11, 2009)

Colorado- I feel for your situation & wish for you the best in what sounds like difficult circumstances, multiple challenges, and many adjustments.

When I was 19 years old, I invited my mother to come live with me. She turned me down and opted to stay in the convalescent home (there since she was 24 due to paralysis and then in wheelchair). When I was in my early 30s, I invited my father to come live with me when his health failed. He turned me down, and stayed where he was until it was too late (his condition deteriorated and he weighed only 70#s when I was called by a family member to come down and assist). He was cared for in a private nursing home until he died (bedridden for two years). Both my parents died when I was 34 years old. I often wish just one of them had lived long enough to see how DH & I live as they would have just loved living where we currently do & sharing this lifestyle.

I was licensed as a Care Provider after my divorce, took care of a quadriplegic, and got specialized care training (worked in this field while going to night school to get my degree). Was married to 2nd DH almost six years ago. We have spoken about his parents and have made some decisions.

Both are in their late 70s, MIL is in fair health, FIL in good health. They live in a nice custom home they designed, with a beautiful view, about 40 minutes South of us. Right now, they are spending the Winter traveling in their motorhome (AZ & NM usually). Each year, my MIL gets very ill and always has a close call. So, we spoke with both of them and offered this:

Should they need assistance, they are welcome here. I wouldn't expect them to live in our home (we do have a guest room), but I would want them to have their own privacy & plenty of room. We would apply for a Permit variance to allow us to build a MIL dwelling here for them. That would be designed by them. Both are welcome to stay here until the day they die & I am fully prepared to care for them. What we won't do is drive 40 minutes each way to take care of things a few times/week. That is the point they would have to decide what they should do (sell their home and choose where they themselves wish to go). We will honor their decision.


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## unregistered29228 (Jan 9, 2008)

Colorado, your post is heartbreaking. It was good for all of us to read a post by someone on the "elderly" end of the discussion. I hope something works out for you so you have a safe place to live and someone to help you when you need it. Is there an agency for aging you can call to help you with the shelves or upgrade some things like the accordian doors?

We all will be in your position some day as we grow older, and it's good to be reminded of how it feels to get rid of a lifetime of books and things, and to have to depend on other for so much.

God bless you.


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## mpillow (Jan 24, 2003)

_Colorado- I feel for your situation & wish for you the best in what sounds like difficult circumstances, multiple challenges, and many adjustments._

I agree. Compromise is necessary on both sides.

This is my opinion as well..._"DH and I both have our own perspective on this and we've both decided we do not want to be a burden on our son. He has his life and we should be responsible enough to make plans now, while we still can. So that's what we're doing. We're still in the process of getting this house set up as a temporary nursing home for each of us if the need arises for that. We also have well documented instructions for each other and our son on what to do if one or both of us becomes unable to continue in a normal lifestyle. There's not going to be any guesswork and there's not going to be any intrusion on our son's family. No guilty feelings allowed for anyone. I personally have no patience for an older generation that has the money to make life simpler for all, including themselves, and yet didn't make plans for how that would happen. It's the ultimate selfish act I hope to avoid."_

We have offered a trailer on our land...."beneath" all 3. The parents would have the same complaints as Colorado about shelves and cupboards and closets....however, I hold no attachment to physical possessions/appearances when it comes to the point that a person cannot drive, has no energy/strength to cook for or bathe themselves...I'm not saying that every material thing has to go but the expression "He who dies with the most toys wins!" is not true...

I do not want to "control" the aging parents nor do I want to be "controlled" by their excessive/frivolous wants as opposed to meeting those needs that are a must and paring them down so there is more time to be a family and enjoy the time we have left together. The 6 inch difference on a shelf is something I would gladly trade in order to have one more day with family.

I dunno.... like I said its frustrating.


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## Ernie (Jul 22, 2007)

Just speaking as an observer of modern society, I think this is a cultural issue. We have a sense of obligation to our parents left over from older times, and we know it's the proper Christian thing to do. Yet our modern lives don't let us build the bonds that make it easy. For many of us, by the time our parents need us, the bridges have been burned that would have made it a normal, natural transition. And for many of us as parents now, it's a warning call to the future.


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## soulsurvivor (Jul 4, 2004)

Ernie, keeping it realistic, it's a warning call NOW. None of us are guaranteed full health in the next second, much less some distant future. All of this discussion is about survival and how best to do that for all concerned. Make plans now for end-of-life situations and not just because you're "at that age". It can become a need at any age.


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## jmtinmi (Feb 25, 2009)

My SIL has no family obligations. She is recently divorced and just became a RN. She offered to purchase a home in Tucson, AZ and have her Mother (82yrs) and Stepfather (91 yrs) move in with them. Nice gesture, right. MIL decided against because of privacy issues and SIL's personality (IMO). So SIL decides to move to CO where her other sister lives. 

My beef with the situation is that why can't the SIL still move to Tucson, close to them and still be of help? It appears that her altruistic motives weren't genuine. I wouldn't trade the last 5 years of being close to my Mom (died on 9/22) for anything. I guess I am looking at this from that standpoint.


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## Aintlifegrand (Jun 3, 2005)

I just wish my Mom would realize how much I need her...nearly everyday I think of what it will be like when she is no longer around for me to call as say.. "Hey what do you think about this..or what do I do about that".. I know she worries about being a burden and I know she loves her independence ..but I would really like to understand what it takes to convince her that _she_ is needed.


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## ChristyACB (Apr 10, 2008)

Ernie said:


> Just speaking as an observer of modern society, I think this is a cultural issue. We have a sense of obligation to our parents left over from older times, and we know it's the proper Christian thing to do. Yet our modern lives don't let us build the bonds that make it easy. For many of us, by the time our parents need us, the bridges have been burned that would have made it a normal, natural transition. And for many of us as parents now, it's a warning call to the future.


Spot on there!

Regardless of what religion (or no religion) that a person embraces, we all trace back to groups of people that only survived by practicing that generational care. But we just don't set ourselves up for it nowadays.

Truth be told, we do things even now. Like pushing our kids out of the house asap to stand on their own: Logical given the state we often see their bedrooms as teenagers or the distance to college. But we seem to have lost that ability to transition into different stages of life and remain in the same house together. While our kids are home, they are kids "under our roof" and obey our rules. We don't transition to adults living in the same house but showing appropriate respect for elders while elders show more respect for them type of thing. 

The HOW of fixing that is the problem and one that is very complicated. Anyone got good ideas on how to do that well?


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## Spinner (Jul 19, 2003)

I think the Amish have this problem covered real well. They build a small "grandparents house" next to the main house, and even have a connecting door so the elderly can walk over to dinner, etc, without going out in the heat/cold. It provides privacy and independence along with the closeness that is needed when the elderly parents or grandparents need it. No problems with an extra yard to maintain, or travel to give needed care. Grandchildren have a closeness with grandparents that is almost totally lacking in todays families. I think it's a perfect answer to many families care giving. It eliminates the need of a nursing home, etc. If I'm right, they might have 2 or 3 generations living on the property at any given time. As the family grows, so does the house(s). 

There are a lot of families in my area that do something similar to that. They might have several homes on a single property. My neighbor has 3 homes on their place. One for each set of grandparents and the main house. Another neighbor (young couple) bought land and built their home, then her parents moved a mobile home out on the property where they live comfortably but separately from the kids/grandkids. 

My DIL has approached me asking if I'll sell her an acre so she can build a home on one corner of my property. I've been giving it a lot of thought. Even if her and DS eventually split up, it would keep his children close (he'll inherit my place when I'm gone.) I have some lots over in a community right down the road that I intend to give to the grandkids, so hopefully everyone will live in the area forever.


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## Colorado (Aug 19, 2005)

My nephew's MIL is 92 and live a block from them. But she has some of the family living in her house with her. Some pay some rent maybe. Nephew and his wife are both passed 70 now and he can not drive due to eye sight (wet MD). His wife can drive now and her sight I take is going with cataracts and they have kids there are both sides. Lot family. MIL has some one with her and she helps some of the family with a place to live as they do not have their own homes yet. 

Me, as I said 78 and 3 kids. One that 80 miles is only one that can help me. He does have a little house in his back yard and I can have . Galley kitchen and two little bedrooms living room. Yes, I have been in it. No where to wash clothes and there basement washer I cold us but I can not manage the stairs in that house. If I could not drive I could not get to the laundrymat. I do not expect them to do my wash and so on. IF I get bad then I would have to go asisted living or such. I had planned to buy and rent out the house till i need to move there. We tried finding a used modular to put on land by him and build way high. I wanted the house behind them and town code building inspector nixed that. He wanted to rent me a senior apt that they had empty. We have tried all kinds of ideas and none will work. No washer and dryer in them and there is one set for all the apts can use somewhere on the place. Oh yes, I have talked to him and senior co-ordinator there. Yes, the town has senior apts and assisted living and small nursing home. I have checked this on and in the town. Senior apts there I have not been in but DIL has to see some one. She was not impressed she said. I still need to ask about the bus that goes to the store twice a month and down here for doctors once a month. If all seniors can use? Son said he thinks all as he has seen it make stops around town. I do presume there would be a fee to help with cost which is fine. I has seen the bus in the big city and I believe it says county on it. As a senior you have to check out things. Bus system here charges half fare and I was trying to figure out how to use it. It would take 4 hours to go to eye doctor and back just bus time plus the hours I would be there. 12 miles each way. Public bus system. Here the apts and asssisted and nursinghome is owned by a group and their bus is only for them. Every area is different. You check. My DIL needs to go to another city to get radiation treatments for her breast cancer. She can not drive her self. She as been calling senior things down her way and so far no help. The bus does not go there. And winter time. 5 days a week for 6 to 7 weeks. They have problems. That is my older son. 

On shelving losing 6 inches is losing 25 % of the shelf space. And it is too narrow at 18 to double row my storage cans. Those shelves I would lose 50 % of storage space. Room too narrow to only have shelving down each side. I would like as much storage as possible. My big storage cans would not fit under the shelves. I would have to set them in the center of room . When you are a 4 hour trip to the stores and then plus shopping time. It is all day. I can not ask kids to take to me city all the time. So when you go to city you stock up on basic things like flour and sugar and beans what ever you use. To re-buy containers for things would cost one heck of lot. How much shelving would one lose in prebuilts. I do not know how they come but I know how many feet I want to fit the space. 2 by 4's and plywood would be great far as I am concerned. Wall I wanted bookcases is a wood stove I find out. I need to go to Home Depot and look at shelving. Steel grey kind would be fine but that is high priced I think. I still feel it will run $5000 to move in to that house. And if my knees do go I would have to move out to Senior apt or somewhere else. 

One must have doorways wide enough for wheel chair . Older son tore a wallout fo the bathroom so his wife coud get her wheelchair into the bathroom.. As door could not be made wider. This rental house no way to do that to bathroom and 24" doorway will not work. Least the plan says that is . Possible to use a smaller wheeled chair of some type? I hope I never comes to that. But I did buy a pair crutches When I needed I did not have. I hope not have to use. I do not kknow the answers so I keep talking and thinking. 

One can only tell parents they need a plan in case like my son did me.


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## mpillow (Jan 24, 2003)

Colorado-- is there a chance of finding someone with any integrity nearby that might take you shopping and to appts.? or maybe someone to live in and help for their rent?

I shop/share the load with my neighbor, she is 71yo and her 89 year old mother lived with her until she passed early Sept. this year. Her near 50 yo son lives there too as he has had multiple strokes and can hardly walk. We shop together and pick berries together and so forth. I helped with her mother at the end.

I discussed things with one of my sisters' (I have 2sisters and 3 brothers). This sister is kind of well to-do and does not have children so I kind of share mine with her. I have to say that I was quite shocked....she is usually very generous...she said my parents were going to move into a trailer at my other sisters! (LOL - when heck freezes over) and she went on to say that she had no intention of helping to care for them blah blah
Well I guess I know where she stands don't I? 
It was downright RUDE the way she said it.....guess she never had messy drawers when she was a kid!
Merry Christmas to me!
Off to call my mother!


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## Ernie (Jul 22, 2007)

ChristyACB said:


> The HOW of fixing that is the problem and one that is very complicated. Anyone got good ideas on how to do that well?


Good idea? No idea. It takes so long to see whether or not your work bears fruit that it's impossible for me to judge at this point whether or not my ideas are sound. However I'll give them to you anyway and maybe receive the benefit of the wisdom of a community.

My first step is preparing a financial place for my children in the world. A child can't inherit a job in a factory or an office, but a child can inherit a sawmill, or an apiary with all of its expensive equipment, and most of all they can inherit land. I would love to be one of those father and son businesses when my children grow older and therefore I'm taking steps now to prepare for such a business. I'm acquiring land for their eventual use and teaching them various agricultural trades. Now there's nothing to say that one of my children won't grow up with a strong desire to be an accountant, but if they should choose otherwise the way will be prepared. They won't HAVE TO be an accountant.

Second step is to teach them the value of cross-generational families living together and working together. Unfortunately in my own situation, it's difficult to do that by showing. My own family lives across the country for me and is scattered to the four winds, the previous generation having decided to break the mold (as did so many others of that generation). So I have to rely on just explaining to them how it's important and showing them the best I can.

Third step is to properly transition them into adulthood. I see so many fathers who treat their adult sons as children. There's no clean break between childhood and the authority of the father over the son, and the son becoming another adult male in the family who may still be under the authority of the patriarch but yet still recognized as an independent and strong voice. The same as a Christian wife may submit to her husband's will, an adult son may still submit to the aged father's will but in both cases they will only do so if they believe and have seen that the authority has their best interests at heart and cares more for the family than himself.

It's a tough road, and there's almost nothing in our society to turn to and see a working model of this.


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## hintonlady (Apr 22, 2007)

Spinner said:


> My DIL has approached me asking if I'll sell her an acre so she can build a home on one corner of my property.



That is a HUGE compliment to you. She sounds like a keeper!!:goodjob:


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## Colorado (Aug 19, 2005)

Ernie. it seems every since WWII families have moved off. But lot moved in the depression also. My folks did. I am hear as my husband got sick and we had to move out of high altiltude and be be near a V A Hospital as no money or Ins. When he died in 68 I did have to go to work. I have my 3 kids yet, but folks of course gone and brother and sisters gone and their spouses. As I was 12 years younger than sister next to me. Nieces and nephews more my age. Some of them have gone too. This is heck of a feeling being the oldest and nieces and newphews dying. I have been here 45 years and really do not want to move anywhere else. Some people up and move so easy it seems. 

This area the small arms have been sold off and houses gone in. Totally not what it use to be. Surounded by city. I am still county. Things change. Some of kids move around. My younger son I do believe he will stay put in that town. Daughter I have my doubts about. Older son I think will stay put now. We elderly have the probelms to if we move to be closes ti kid will they stay there are move off some where else. Other things can happen and we would be alone there. Moving, deaths, family splits and such. You lose control and you could be worse off. You could be off in another area and know no one. Medical, how far to and do you have to change doctors or drive 100's of miles to get to one. Cost of livng could be a lot more. I have done some checking up. Hearing aid place would mail me batteries but be 180 drive to get them cleaned. Vitamins I must take for eyes for MD they will mail to me. Least as long as same ones have the store. Does cost more that way. Each of us seniors will have problems that have to be worked out. It is upsetting I can tell you. Some people have moved around and some of us have not. I had planned to just finish my live right here. But son is right I may not be able to.


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## JuliaAnn (Dec 7, 2004)

This is coming from yet another perspective than most I've read here, and I am sure I will be flamed for it. It's from my perspective, looking at what is going on with my mother and grandmother.

My mother is 71. HER mother is 93, unable to cook for herself, bathe herself in any manner at all (not even a sponge bath). She cannot walk unaided and when she uses her rolling walker must creep along and must stop and sit at least a couple of times even when just going from one room to the next. Cannot stand without help getting to her feet, cannot sit without help sitting down. She is basically a good person, but she refuses to compromise in any fashion. 

My mother lives with her now and has for about three years now (mother's siblings absolutely REFUSE to pitch in and help; but my siblings and I do what we can to help take a bit of the burden off my mother) and my mother only gets to go to her own home once a day for about three hours to visit with my father until she must return to be with her mother. Her mother refuses to move to my parent's house, and everyone must jump to her every whim, which are often petty in the scheme of things. Yes, they are important to her, but getting a bath at three a.m. simply because she cannot sleep because she feels dirty and expecting my mother, aged 71, to jump out of bed and immediately accomodate her is getting to be too much. Refusing to eat anything at all except for a certain food, and then when that food is presented to her makes faces and refuses to eat even that.....)

My mother, as stated, is 71. She is healthy, but still, she is 71 and has arthritis, stress fratcures in her spine, rarely sleeps well because my grandmother rarely sleeps well, and has only been able to spend very brief snatches of time with her own husband in the past few years. My own mother is getting old, and caring for my grandmother is aging her terribly.

I love my grandmother dearly, and I do not wish anything bad, don't get me wrong. But her behavior is killing my mother. My mother is completely devoted to her mother out of love and wanting what is best for my grandmother. But my grandmother does not want was is best for herself or my mother, and to be frank, that bothers me terribly. It is getting to the point my mother will not be able to continue to give my grandmother the care she needs for her health and safety. My mother is not a nurse or doctor.

It's tough when an elderly person who cannot live on their own refuses to make any compromises. The only answer is what I know to be inevitable.... one day soon my grandmother will have some health crisis or she will fall and my mother will call an ambulance, and then my grandmother will go to a nursing home of some sort where she will get the care that my mother won't be able to give her.

I love my grandmother, I want the best for her. But it's getting to where that will soon be beyond the scope of my mother's ability.


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## AngieM2 (May 10, 2002)

JuliaAnn - no flame. I understand the problem you see and cannot fix.
Angie


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## soulsurvivor (Jul 4, 2004)

It's not advisable to wait until you're close to death or you're aged in both mind and body to make important life decisions about end-of-life care. I know from my own experience that the closer you are to death, the less reasonable you can become, and it can quickly become a situation where those closest to you are the ones who suffer the most.


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## seagullplayer (Nov 6, 2008)

*People will take all you will give.*

If you want something to change, you have to start on your end. As long as you are the easiest fix, they will keep comeing to you for help.

Couple of ideas that helped us:

Let the machine get the phone. When it is not life threatening take your time about calling back.

Send the kids to do the work.

Don't offer wait until you are asked.

Put things off that can be put off.

If what you offer is not fast enough, suggest they call one of the other kids.

*I don't mean to suggest that you don't do your part, just make sure everyone gets a chance to do a part. Your BIL's and SIL's are not going to help as long as you are taking care of it, and it sounds like your MIL is not asking them to, because she gets her needs taken care of from you. Same goes with your parents.*


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## mpillow (Jan 24, 2003)

JuliaAnn 

no flame here....this happened exactly as you stated with the old ladies next door until Grammy died in Sept. plenty of family(grammy's 2 other surviving kids, oodles of 50 ish grands and 20ish great grands) in the area but I (just the neighbor) was the one to help. She fell 3 times and the 3rd time it broke her neck, she died a month later.

My MIL will call my brother and my sister (not her family) if she cannot reach us....when she wants something done and it gets put off she'll get mad and possibly drunk and raise HECK like you've never known....end up falling down and in the hospital BTDT a few times because her daughter wasn't answering her phone calls this last occasion.


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## Ohiogal (Mar 15, 2007)

Ernie;

You've got a lot of wisdom. What you describe is what my folks did very well, my father in particular was always ALWAYS grooming us all (girls and boys) for a life without someone to rely on - teaching us to be indepedant. He passed the blessings onto his sons, and his daughters. It was just "the way" of a devoute German family, and we were also taught the 10 commandments and the "honor thy father and thy mother" was not forgotten either.
My father passed away in August, 4 years behind my mother. I can't think of a man who was more deserving of some coddling when he grew aged, but he would have none of it. His comment on his deathbed was "my job is done, you are all doing well and I'm praying for you". He died the next day with us standing at his side, leaving a very close knit family. Despite his stubborn attitude which did worsen as he grew older, he was still able to get around and even drive. He was nearly 86. 
I tell everyone I know that if I could have just -one minute- back with either of my parents, what Heaven that would be. I will say though, that since I was the last of 6, and the youngest, and the only woman who did not marry, that most of the "elder care" fell on me. I kept reminding myself through the years that someday, when "they" were gone, that I'd be at peace with it as I had that time with them when they were alive. Adult to adult. That has certainly borne fruit and I'm wiser and more at peace over their loss because of having that attitude.
To Colorado and all those who mourn for companionship and are at a loss to how to keep going, know that my heart feels for you, too. The feeling of abandonment that sets upon the single aged adult is very heavy and so it the sense of isolation and helplessness that comes with failing health. No wonder that you grasp and hold onto what is only familiar, its the only thing you have left in some cases --
I can only hope that your family, whatever and whomever is involved, can meet your needs. I encourage you to talk with whomever is available - family, help agencies like "Comfort Keepers" or whomever, to try to fill those gaps of care and companionship that are so empty later in life.


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## Ann-NWIowa (Sep 28, 2002)

I don't believe we owe it our parents to allow them to abuse us. Just because you're old doesn't give you a pass on treating people badly. Find a good nursing home and have granny admitted. Where my m-i-l is I've seen enough to know even the "impossible" clients are treated well. Food is good. Care is excellent. When my m-i-l was making a fuss about going into a nursing home, I told her that she could choose to be miserable and unhappy or she could choose to make the best of things and enjoy all that was possible. Fortunately, she choose to be happy. When she was able she participated in everything going on. They have exercise, crafts, movies, Bible study, Church, Chapel, bingo, games, someone reads newspaper & "old times" magazines, 3 meals a day and 3 snacks, coffee time 2:30 every afternoon, hair done on Wednesdays, groups coming in to present special music, visits from school classes, school band comes to perform, all parades go past, special events for all holidays. Dh spends time with her 4 or more times a week and I visit on weekends. My kids visit occasionally as does b-i-l & his family. It is much more stimulating than sitting alone in an apartment day after day. My m-i-l improved drastically the first months she was there.


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## tamsam (May 12, 2006)

Let me answer several questions and give my thoughts on this matter. First off I cared for my Mom for a little over a year before she passed. I would not trade a minute of the time we spent together for anything. We had talks and I learned so much about things in her childhood and how to do things. My Dad died suddenly and I wish I would have had the chance to take care of him but he was here one day and then went to his home in the sky. Why would one not want to help care for an aging parent? My Mom didn't want to be a burden but I convinced her that I enjoyed our time together, which I did. For those who need to convince their parents that they are still needed just sit down and tell them how you feel. If tour Mom and Dad are still alive you are very lucky because when they are gone you can never tell them anything else. Tam's Mom is alive and in good health but if and when the time comes I will insist that she come live with us. Just enjoy the time you have with your loved ones as they will not be here forever. My baby Brother just passed away at the age of 51, so you never know how much time you have. And those who refuse to help will have to live with that for the rest of their lives. Sorry so long but I had a lot to say. Sam


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## mpillow (Jan 24, 2003)

Insisting they live with us is taken as an insult....for #1 we have a small house (the reason we don't live in a mcmansion is because we wanted to be debt free and self sufficient as possible with one income) for ##2--two of my kids are teenagers-- well they are prone to being loud, obnoxious, busy and hungry every waking hour (I love them but hey I was their age once I get it....I let them crank the radio when a good song comes on the radio) #3 a trailer is so beneath them on our property (chickens on the doorstep is not unusual here)

I want to take care of them but their has to be compromise....like maybe a pen for the chickens instead of free range.....and Martha Stewart aint cutting the cake


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