# Can goats be cut for castration or must they be banded?



## GBov (May 4, 2008)

NOT counting chickens (or kids) before they are hatched but I have someone wanting a castrated, dis-budded kid if my girls give me a boy.

As I dont have a bander I was wondering if kids could be castrated by cutting, like we do with our little piggies?


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## MDKatie (Dec 13, 2010)

Yes, but the procedure is a little bit different. Instead of cutting vertical slits for each testicle, you're going to cut the bottom of the scrotum off (between 1/3 and 1/2). It helps to position the kid sitting on his rear, with his legs held out of the way. Make sure the testicles are UP close to the body, so you don't cut them when you cut off the bottom of the testicle. It's going to bleed, so you'll want gauze or something if needed, to give you grip enough to pull each testicle out. You can spray the wound with blu-kote or something like that. 

You'll want to do this early, after a few days but no longer than a week (IMO). You can also give some banamine and if you have a good relationship with a vet, you can give some lidocaine as well. 

We did lambs this way on a farm where I worked (with banamine and lidocaine) and the lambs done this way were up and active WAY sooner than those who were banded.


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## marusempai (Sep 16, 2007)

Yes, but the process is different from pigs (from what I understand - never done a pig). Since goats are so dangly, you push the testicles up, cut off the bottom third of the sack, and then pull them out the bottom. Personally I think banding is enough faster and easier to justify spending twenty dollars on the bander (and those little green donuts are super cheap!). But both ways are supposed to be equally good, and with cutting you're at least dang certain you got both out.


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## BlueHen (Jul 25, 2014)

MDKatie said:


> We did lambs this way on a farm where I worked (with banamine and lidocaine) and the lambs done this way were up and active WAY sooner than those who were banded.


Not a fan of banding any animal here. I guess if you don't know how to cut an animal that may be your only way, but I think it causes unnecessary suffering and has a higher chance of complications. It may be easier for the person to band, but it is darn sure not easier for the animal.

Knives only here. Two days after cutting our ram lambs they are back to 100%, you would never be able to tell (unless you looked underneath, obviously) that anything ever happened. I've seen banded lambs that are still hunched and hurting over a week later.


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## hihobaron (Oct 5, 2015)

Hello all Nut cutters.
Banding is "Humane" it only hurts for a few hours, once the blood supply is cut off the nerves go dead too.
Moving on: In Goats a "Open Castration" Surgical Cutting. is OK.
There are many view points RE: Banding and Cutting.
I have done both on many different breeds of Large Live Stock.
In September 2015 I "Acquired" a Alpine X 6 Month old buckling.
To big to band. He was people bonded/imprinted from birth.
Put him up on a milking stand, cleaned him up well, Slit the Scrotum vertically, about a 2 inch incision, with sterile gloves garbed a nut pulled it out till the cord was as far as it would go, Used a Baskdaro to crimp the cord and cut the nut off, replete for the other nut.
Clean the area up with a good surgical scrub and give a shot of antibiotic and tetanus.
Job over and done with in less time it takes to type this post.
No complications, no infection, No screaming while he was getting fixed. No pain killers.
Goats in general do not react well to going under drugs. Make it quick is the trick.
Keep them active and in a clean area. Active will keep them draining so the don't seal up the incision before it can heal normally. Goats do have a reputation for bleeding a lot at the first cut. But they also Clot very fast too.
In the end it depends more on the age of the animal for the method you select.
Younger goats Band them, older goats cut them.
BTY: A fresh castrated Billy can still breed a couple times and it will take (Depending on) how much breeding experience he had for the "Hormones" to work out of his system.
With a older billy that has bred a lot you still can get Buck behavior for a long time.
Cut them early and you will get out of that problem and smell. 
I have mine for Pack Goats,were it is mostly a all Guy working area. 
But also work with milking goats that of course in a ALL Girl area.
To each their own area of expertise.
Happy Trails
hihobaron Pete and Sam


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## BackfourtyMI. (Sep 3, 2007)

Cut them here most of the time. I do believe it's more humane than banding & my vet agree's.
It's done just like MDKatie said above. Cut off the borrom. Most of the time we don't get much blood. Then pull out 1 testicle until the cord breaks & then the other side.
We do give a little banamine before the procedure & spray them with Screw worm spray for a week or so until it's healing up good.
We do not cut ours until about 6-7 weeks. A good holder is a must!


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## Muleman (Nov 8, 2013)

Well not to beat a dead horse as you have already had the cutting procedure explained in detail, but I agree with the cutting procedure. I do the same with my piglets. What I can tell you is according to my vet there have been several University studies done on this subject, mostly on Cattle to be fair. The conclusions were based mainly on growth rates as to speed of recovery following the procedure and some followed until slaughter. The studies all had the same results in that the surgically castrated calves grew at a faster rate and gained more weight than the banded calves. The conclusion was that the surgical castration was less stressful on the animal, thus they went back to their normal routine of eating sooner than with banding. I know my cut pigs will go right back to eating as if nothing happened the minute they hit the ground after the procedure. The cut goats the same. I would ask this question, if you had to have your finger cut off, would you want it done quickly all at once, or slowly over a week or two? You answer that and you will know which you might prefer to use.


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## ozark_jewels (Oct 7, 2005)

Been banding goat kids here for 16 years and calves for 25 years. If done right(early and put on right, which is simple), I've never seen a kid exhibit signs of discomfort longer than 2 hours, and even that is not extreme discomfort. For sure, NEVER a week! Calves never even seem to notice they've been banded. If you band in the heat of the summer, yes, you can have issues, but this is true for other forms of castration as well. There are ways to prevent that and not hard ones. Easiest way is to do it before it gets hot and when the kid is young.

I have nothing against cutting if done right(I did see a calf bleed to death after being cut wrong), but I certainly have nothing against banding done right.


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## Muleman (Nov 8, 2013)

Ok, this is not to start arguments and is not directed at anyone. However, the OP is looking for information, so here is some that is not my opinion, but University study reports, which everyone can read the full reports if they wish to and draw their own conclusion, but I thought the OP may be interested.
Here is one from Texas Tech University.
http://feedstuffsfoodlink.com/story-effects-calf-castration-dehorning-studied-0-96866
quote " As for castration, AVMA pointed out that the elastrator rubber banding technique has been associated with increased chronic pain and should be discouraged."

Here is an in depth study of the subject documented by the Animal Welfare Approved association. Note in the study surgical castration is allowed up until an age of 2 months, while banding is not allowed past one week. You may also note about page 5 they talk about Acute pain vs. Chronic pain with both procedures. 
http://animalwelfareapproved.org/wp-content/uploads/2010/04/TAFS-9-Beef-castration-2010.pdf

Here is another University study comparing the two different methods and the pros and cons of each from South Dakota State.
http://www.sdstate.edu/vs/extension/beef-castration.cfm

The important thing to recognize in these studies is the fact that Acute Pain and Chronic pain are two different things and while surgical castration does have more Acute pain. Banding has a much longer period of Chronic pain, as these studies point out.


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## ozark_jewels (Oct 7, 2005)

Yep, read those studies. Watched both methods used properly in several large herds for years, besides my herd. Watched the same results, no more or less weight loss, stress, etc. First sign of stress/pain is growth stall/weight loss in a young animal. I'm not arguing which is better, but I still band. Just saying.....
The OP is already planning on cutting, I'm not trying to change anyones mind. I just wanted to point out that banding done properly does not result in much pain, certainly not for a week.


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## copperpennykids (Sep 6, 2004)

Agree with those advocating surgical castration. Just want to mention that on our Boers we generally castrate at 7-8 weeks. Optimal growth with little set back. If you wait longer (like 10 weeks on up) then it is a lot more stressful for them and they may have a set back.


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## SJSFarm (Jun 13, 2012)

I used a burdizzo two years ago for the first time and was impressed 
As a kid, we had bull calves and had someone come and band them , so I assumed that is what I would do for my bucklings. Doing a little research, I decided on the burdizzo and had my vet come and help. She'd never used one and was so impressed she borrowed mine to use on other farms, eventually buying one for calves herself. 
There is not a lot out there on doing it but for those who don't know, the burdizzo is a crusher . It crushes the spermatic cord. You do one crush on each side. Nothing is left in place (band) and nothing is cut (bloodless). 

For me, I'm happy and the boys done appeared none the worse for wear.


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## odieclark (May 11, 2016)

Do you use anesthesia of any kind?

Do goats not tolerate pain meds?

At 3-4 months what is the best method?


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## Jlynnp (Sep 9, 2014)

I just have my vet do it at about 6 weeks, he cuts and it is one and done in a couple minutes. If they are bottle babies I just bring a bottle along and they never really fuss much. I know some vets are expensive but my vet charges me $20 for castration, worming, vaccinations and a basic check up.


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## gila_dog (Jun 17, 2011)

I raised 3 wethers to be packgoats. The advice I got was to wait until they were 6 months old to do it. That was because they were expected to live a long time, not just be butchered pretty soon, so you want the urinary equipment to grow to full size so there's less chance of getting plugged up with urinary calculi stones later in life. I don't know if this is still the recommended thinking or not, but that's what we did. Actually I had a vet do it because these guys were real billy goats by this time so it wasn't a small job. The vet put them asleep, then cut off the bottom part of the sack, and removed the testicles. This left an open wound, so I gave them penicillin shots for a week or so. 2 of the 3 healed up right away. But one guy's wound just wouldn't heal. It stayed open and bleeding a little, while his brothers were healing up just fine. It really had me worried, so was just standing at the edge of the pen thinking about it one day and I saw why my goat wouldn't heal. As he was eating hay from his feeder, a chicken came up behind him and started pecking the wound! Ay carumba!!! So, I locked the chickens up for a couple of weeks and the poor goat healed up fine.
Here he is as a packgoat.


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## odieclark (May 11, 2016)

Oh my gosh! I totally believe that! 

Hens see blood, even on their own kind, and cannot leave it alone! Turkeys are the same!

Lucky that you saw the culprit before it was too late! A hen will peck another hen to death this way, and surely was causing pain and discomfort for your sweet guy! Ugh! An infection could have developed, or who knows! 

Glad he is fine!

So far our kids seem fine! Hoping it continues!


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## Laura Workman (May 10, 2002)

I cut a lot of goats before I tried a burdizzo. I'll never cut another kid.


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## odieclark (May 11, 2016)

Laura Workman said:


> I cut a lot of goats before I tried a burdizzo. I'll never cut another kid.


Hmm... Very cool! So, you like the burdizzo? Was it tricky to do the first time? Where did you get it? Was it expensive? What age do you do it at? Only on goats, or any other animals?


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## bigsmooth (Jan 31, 2014)

We used a burdizzo for the first time last year as well. We are straight-outta-the-gate newbies too, and found it quick and easy to use. We castrated 2 LaMancha buckings at around 4 wks old. Off the top of my head, I can't recall the appropriate age-window for castration, but we did it slightly on the early side as these 2 guys were destined to be freezer babies ASAP. 

The entire procedure was done in about 20 seconds, 10 seconds each side. The boys cried for a couple seconds each side but then were fine. Scampered right back to Mama after it was done and didn't seem at all bothered in the long run. We were sure it worked because the little testicles did not grow any more! 

I can't personally compare the burdizzo with other methods, as this is the only time I've castrated anything, but I don't see us trying anything else. It is a two-man job (one to hold, one to do it) but not super physical or difficult. We found some very helpful youtube videos as well as a tutorial from the site we purchased the burdizzo from. Overall I would consider it very user-friendly. The one we purchased was from Premier1 Supply and can be used on goats as well as sheep. From what I understand, it's better to avoid the larger burdizzo designed for calves as it is easier for the smaller goat spermatic cord to slide out the side where it won't be effective. 

All in all, we are more comfortable with using the burdizzo as it is a closed procedure that does not cut off blood supply and causes minimal pain.

Good luck with whatever you chose


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