# Do you give your horse rabies vacinations?



## haypoint (Oct 4, 2006)

Health officials urge rabies vaccines for large animals [NC]

By Karissa Minn

Salisbury Post

July 11, 2012





SALISBURY - After a horse contracted rabies in Rowan County last month, health officials are urging owners of large animals to vaccinate them - and protect the humans around them.



"Get your animals vaccinated for rabies," County Health Director Leonard Wood said. "It's crazy not to. ... People with horses, particularly - they've got a lot of value in those animals."



A horse that was bought in Salisbury and trained in Rockwell died in Mecklenberg County on June 29 or 30. The horse became sick shortly after it left Rowan County, Wood said, so officials believe the animal became infected while it was still here.



Wood declined to say where exactly it was kept.



Dr. Andy Gardner, with Large Animal Medicine and Surgery in Rockwell, said this is the first time in more than 30 years in Rowan County that he's seen a case of rabies in a horse.



"Within two or three days, the horse started showing weird signs," Gardner said. "It was depressed and made some strange vocal sounds."





Full text:

Health officials urge rabies vaccines for large animals | Salisbury, NC - Salisbury Post


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## beccachow (Nov 8, 2008)

I know if you run a home daycare, you must provide proof of rabies vaccinations. Otherwise it is left up to the owner here in MD.

We do have a few rabid animals that make appearances once every two years or so. I am sadly not up to date on any vaccines for my horses.


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## haypoint (Oct 4, 2006)

Once you contract rabies, you die. You can start vacinations if you know you've been exposed. Sadly your horse can't tell you that he put his nose by a rabid skunk or got scratched by a rabid bat.

I think the chances are small, just as tetnis is rare. But I sleep better knowing my horses are protected.


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## Cliff (Jun 30, 2007)

You know people don't tend to step up and answer these types of questions right? 'Specially now since we know it's a TRAP  Well, those who are going to say what you want to hear will answer I guess  'Cept Rogo, can't scare her. And beccachow. 

People vaccinate or don't vaccinate for all kinds of reasons. So far (won't be surprised when this changes with the nanny state and all) it is legal for us to choose for ourselves. The discussions about this can get very heated.


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## Yvonne (Jan 29, 2003)

Yes. It's not a way I would want my horses to die. Rabies is prevalent in my part of Texas.


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## where I want to (Oct 28, 2008)

Yes- goats and horses. We are in a rabies hot spot. Just a couple of days ago I watched a skunk circling round and round and round in a small part of the pasture. Who knows what he had. 
One reason to do it is that if your horse develops neurological symptoms, having the shot reduces worry a great deal.


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## Minelson (Oct 16, 2007)

I do. It's easy and cheap insurance.


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## Cliff (Jun 30, 2007)

Haypoint I was just teasing you about the trap thing lol, didn't want you to take that wrong...


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## starjj (May 2, 2005)

Yep I am a safety type gal. I had the shot ready and waiting as soon as my mule arrived.


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## bergere (May 11, 2002)

Saw a lot of Rabies in animals when I lived in NH. From kittens...etc... to 21 horses and ponies having to be put down at the boarding stable next to the one I was at. Plus all the people having to get the shots.

In Oregon, the Vets did not give Rabies vaccines...

Here in VA... oh ya... everyone is getting rabies shots. Sheep, goats, horses, cats.... 
its not one of those disease you can come back from.


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## Lisa in WA (Oct 11, 2004)

Equine vets here do not generally vaccinate horses for rabies either.
The other think I found strange was that the small animal vets don't push heartworm medication on us. I asked about it when we first moved here and the vet said he's be happy to order it and take my money but they don't really have heartworm here unless it's from someone who moved with their animal already infected.


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## Stonybrook (Sep 22, 2007)

At my house if it has four legs and hair it gets the rabies vaccine. It isn't rampant here that I know of, but they do have several cases a year pop up.


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## Izitmidnight (Oct 22, 2011)

That horse was located just a few miles from the house when it was diagnosed with rabies. This was a frightening experience at that barn!


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## Oregon Julie (Nov 9, 2006)

where I want to said:


> Yes- goats and horses. We are in a rabies hot spot. Just a couple of days ago I watched a skunk circling round and round and round in a small part of the pasture. Who knows what he had.
> One reason to do it is that if your horse develops neurological symptoms, having the shot reduces worry a great deal.



Mind you these are the stats for 2011 for the state of California, but IMO 3 rabies cases in a year hardly makes your county a rabies hot spot. I truly believe that officials use this stuff to try to frighten people into getting animals vaccinated.

http://humboldthealthalert.org/site...org/files/2011 Rabies Provisional Summary.pdf


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## bergere (May 11, 2002)

"Officials" didn't have to use anything in NH... saw the Rabies issues with my own eyes and there was a lot of it.

And having seen it.... and know I can prevent it, I am going to vaccinate! Better safe than dead, I always say....


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## haypoint (Oct 4, 2006)

Oregon Julie said:


> Mind you these are the stats for 2011 for the state of California, but IMO 3 rabies cases in a year hardly makes your county a rabies hot spot. I truly believe that officials use this stuff to try to frighten people into getting animals vaccinated.
> 
> http://humboldthealthalert.org/site...org/files/2011 Rabies Provisional Summary.pdf


The totals listed as rabies cases for each county or each state must represent the animals that were captured and then tested. Many more cases exist, untested, in many communities.
Rather than believe that the local Health Departments actually are concerned about your health, you create a belief that they exist to scare you? For what reason, to what advantage? Is there a mind control drug in the rabies vaccine?:run:

Here is some info from MSU:
Rabies in Horses &mdash; College of Veterinary Medicine at Michigan State University


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## where I want to (Oct 28, 2008)

Oregon Julie said:


> Mind you these are the stats for 2011 for the state of California, but IMO 3 rabies cases in a year hardly makes your county a rabies hot spot. I truly believe that officials use this stuff to try to frighten people into getting animals vaccinated.
> 
> http://humboldthealthalert.org/site...org/files/2011 Rabies Provisional Summary.pdf


Every three or four years, there are outbreaks. Two years ago, it was a series of infected foxes in the valley below my ridge. One actually chased a woman on her back deck and bit her. 
A co-worker had to take the series of rabies shots because his dog ran after a skunk then came right back into the house and jumped into the man's lap. The skunk was found and tested and has rabies.
Last year a girl contracted rabies in our county- they don't even know how. She made national news because she survived.
And I live in a thinly populated county- less for the whole county than many small cities out east. And no one really goes out of their way to trap or test animals unless they have bitten someone AND have hung around.
These are the cases I know personally- enough for me.


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## sidepasser (May 10, 2002)

My horses always get rabies shots, I reckon for the last 20-25 years or more I have had the vet give them their rabies shots and boosters. We have a lot of possums, ***** and wild dogs and people who do not vaccinate their pets..I don't take chances with my horses.


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## lathermaker (May 7, 2010)

My husbands first wife & their family had to undergo Rabies shots because they had a horse that died of Rabies. Yes, they did post the horse to find out.... just do it.


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## mekasmom (Jan 19, 2010)

We never had any of our horses vaccinated against rabies nor goats. I guess since they are herbivores the vet just never saw the need? I don't think it is a bad idea though. Horses live like 25 years, so wouldn't just a couple of rounds or three in their life time carry the titer long enough? And goats live half that amount of time.


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## haypoint (Oct 4, 2006)

Just some info for those interested:
Michigan Animal Disease updates:

-As of July 13, 2012, we have had 38 cases of rabies *confirmed* in animals in 2012: 30 bats (2 in Bay, 1 in Berrien, 1 in Clare, 1 in Clinton, 3 in Eaton, 1in Gladwin, 1 in Grand Traverse, 1 in Hillsdale, 1 in Huron, 1 in Ionia, 2 in Isabella, 2 in Jackson, I in Kent, 1 in Lapeer, 1 in Lenawee, 1 in Livingston, 1 in Macomb, 1 in Oakland, 1 in Roscommon, 1 in Shiawassee, 3 in St Clair, 1 in Washtenaw, and 1 in Wayne) and 7 skunks (1 in Lapeer, 2 in Oakland, and 4 in Washtenaw Counties) and 8 skunks (1 in Lapeer, 3 in Oakland, 4 in Washtenaw Counties). 

-As of July 13, 2012, we have had 21 cases of Leptospirosis in dogs reported to us for 2012: 2 in Bay, 1 in Genesee, 1 in Jackson, 1 in Kent, 5 in Macomb, 3 in Oakland, 1 in Saginaw, and 7 in Wayne Counties

-As of July 13, 2012, we had 2 cases of Psittacosis (2 in Oakland County). Please note that while one of these birds was returned to the pet store it was purchased from and was euthanized, the other bird, which has been under quarantine while being treated, was released from quarantine this week.

-As of July 13, 2012, we had 1 case of Canine Brucellosis reported for 2012 ( Macomb County).

-As of July 13, 2012, we had 2 cases of Equine Infectious Anemia in horses for 2012: 1 in Mecosta and 1 in Gladwin (trace) Counties. 



As a reminder, we are seeing West Nile activity already this year due to the hot, dry weather. Already this year we have found positive mosquito pools and a positive wild turkey in Michigan. In addition, we are getting word of high West Nile activity in the Chicago area. We may see heavy activity this year in horses and/or domestic birds. As a reminder, it is advised to protect horses by vaccinating them against West Nile virus, changing water buckets/troughs (or other areas with standing water) frequently (1-2 X week), eliminating standing water using insect repellant, and by stabling horses at night, preferably with fans. Also, remember that people can get West Nile virus too!


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## haypoint (Oct 4, 2006)

mekasmom said:


> We never had any of our horses vaccinated against rabies nor goats. I guess since they are *herbivores* the vet just never saw the need? I don't think it is a bad idea though. Horses live like 25 years, so wouldn't just a couple of rounds or three in their life time carry the titer long enough? And goats live half that amount of time.


Vegetarians get rabies, too.


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## Oregon Julie (Nov 9, 2006)

Just for the record I am not anti rabies shots. I am anti unnecessary rabies shots. Yearly shots are not needed, that is for certain. It is also very likely that they are not needed more often then every 5 or 10 years. Yet in many places the state forces people to vaccinate dogs yearly, in spite of the studies that prove that this is not needed and in the case of many animals it is a very negative impact on their health to have repeated rabies (or other types of vaccinations). 

So when I say I think they are using it to manipulate people into running scared to their vet to get their dog it's rabies "booster" I am referring to that sort of unnecessary type of vaccination. So in a way it is a mind control kind of thing. Don't be a sheep, don't mindlessly believe everything they tell you. Think for yourself, do the research and think before you jab.


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## starjj (May 2, 2005)

I asked about rabies shots for my beef cows when I had them (since sold them) the vet said not necessary because they have less contact with people. Horses need them he said. 

This was not quite true though in regards to the cows as mine were pretty much large pets. I also would say it was not true if you have a milking cow.


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## Minelson (Oct 16, 2007)

starjj said:


> I asked about rabies shots for my beef cows when I had them (since sold them) the vet said not necessary because they have less contact with people. Horses need them he said.
> 
> This was not quite true though in regards to the cows as mine were pretty much large pets. I also would say it was not true if you have a milking cow.


Cattle has the highest incidents of rabies in South Dakota.


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## mountainwmn (Sep 11, 2009)

I can die if my horse gets rabies. So yes, I do a rabies shot. And tetnaus. Thats usually it, but my vet did talk me into doing west nile this year. I usually skip it, but I have a little creek here so lots of mosquitos.


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## akane (Jul 19, 2011)

We do not regularly vaccinate anything not required for a purpose and not just the horses. If it's the law or for showing, dog classes, etc... then they get vaccinated. Otherwise maybe every 5 years or so when we have a little extra cash we vaccinate animals that don't leave the property. Part of it is we have no insects due to the barn swallows so that vector for disease is out of the equation and the odds of rabies especially on animals that have been vaccinated at least through all their boosters when younger is so low it's not worth a farm call. I also have one mare who was mishandled by a local equine only vet who we will never call back out again and I have to trailer her 50miles to the next nearest vet because we are outside his range in order to vaccinate her or the one time we bred her and had her checked. She stands perfectly fine for him after he had to treat her at a training clinic near him for stress colic. She sent the other vet off the property with his head bleeding.


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## where I want to (Oct 28, 2008)

Oregon Julie said:


> So when I say I think they are using it to manipulate people into running scared to their vet to get their dog it's rabies "booster" I am referring to that sort of unnecessary type of vaccination. So in a way it is a mind control kind of thing. Don't be a sheep, don't mindlessly believe everything they tell you. Think for yourself, do the research and think before you jab.


Well- dogs can get three year boosters here with the license the same.

However, as to who to believe- my vet I think. When there is reliable research as to maintence of protection levels in other animals beside dogs, I will change my ideas.

However calling people sheep because they choose to take advice from a veterinarian rather than Oregon Juliie speaks volumes too.


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## haypoint (Oct 4, 2006)

Most Vets get the rabies vacinations for themselves. Then every year or so, they get a blood test to see that the antibodies are still there. If not, they get another series of shots.
I think that would work for horses, too. But probably cheaper to just vacinate every few years.


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## Oregon Julie (Nov 9, 2006)

where I want to said:


> Well- dogs can get three year boosters here with the license the same.
> 
> However, as to who to believe- my vet I think. When there is reliable research as to maintence of protection levels in other animals beside dogs, I will change my ideas.
> 
> However calling people sheep because they choose to take advice from a veterinarian rather than Oregon Juliie speaks volumes too.


Would this be the same vet who has a monetary gain in your getting animals vaccinated yearly when it isn't needed? Yeah, that makes lots of sense.


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## Oregon Julie (Nov 9, 2006)

haypoint said:


> Most Vets get the rabies vacinations for themselves. Then every year or so, they get a blood test to see that the antibodies are still there. If not, they get another series of shots.
> I think that would work for horses, too. But probably cheaper to just vacinate every few years.


lt isn't always about the financial cost when the vaccination causes DAMAGE to the animal. I have a good friend who breeds and shows who lost a dog to a rabies vaccination. She has another who nearly died of Immune Mediated Hemolactic Anemia. It cost her in the neighborhood of $6000 to save this dog (and most don't survive, in spite of treatment) and it is caused by "over vaccination". The problem with over vaccination is that what is fine for one animal is too much for another and we have no way of knowing until it is too late and the damage is done. My friends dog was vaccinated per her vet's recommendation and she nearly died and her other dog did die. That vet has since changed their policies in a bit way with regards to vaccination.

I also have lost a dog to IMHA and it was never vaccinated prior to coming her from England as a young adult and only had a limited amount of vaccinations after she got here to me, but it was too much for her system. 

As to the three year rabies jab, that is just fine IF the state/county you live in allows for that. Not all do, some places still require yearly rabies vaccinations in spite of the fact that it is proven to last far longer then the year or even three years.

Instead of you nay sayers just deciding I am some anti vaccination nut job, perhaps you should read a bit about the duration of rabies vaccinations and what is currently being done to prove that it goes far beyond what we thought it did and the damage that can be done by too much.

Duration of Immunity Study for Rabies Vaccine - Rabies Challenge Fund


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## nancy237 (May 29, 2008)

Since bats carry rabies I would think it would be reasonable that horses could get bit fairlt easy by a bat.


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## haypoint (Oct 4, 2006)

Oregon Julie said:


> Would this be the same vet who has a monetary gain in your getting animals vaccinated yearly when it isn't needed? Yeah, that makes lots of sense.


Yup, those evil Vets are just raking in the dough doing rabies vaccinations on horses?


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## Lisa in WA (Oct 11, 2004)

When we lived in Indiana the state required rabies vaccines every year for dogs even though it was accepted fact that the vaccine was good for three years. Our vet told us that Indiana had a powerful vet lobby.


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## Oregon Julie (Nov 9, 2006)

haypoint said:


> Yup, those evil Vets are just raking in the dough doing rabies vaccinations on horses?


I don't know what they charge per jab, but a farm call from my current vet is $50 to start with. My previous vet it was $100. If they do that yearly vs. every say 3 or 5 years times the number of clients that they have that does put a dent in their bottom line. The same goes for small animal vets. I don't think they are evil, I just think that some never got any more education after they graduated about the changing attitudes about vaccination.

Speaking of attitudes there are a few people here who are less then polite in theirs and that is not cool IMO. This isn't GC where it seems to be the norm to trample all over anyone who has an opinion that differs from your own. Part of the benefit of a forum is to exchange ideas, or at least that is what I thought it was all about. Apparently it is just to all be either silent if we have another view or to be a "yes man" and go along with the loudest in the crowd.


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## Rogo (Jan 1, 2006)

=== Well, those who are going to say what you want to hear will answer I guess  'Cept Rogo, can't scare her. And beccachow.  ===


It's not a matter of being 'scared,' it's a matter of being educated, not brainwashed.

When they came out with the colustrum business, I asked several of my physician friends about it. Was told the pharmaceutical folks got together with doctors looking for ways to add to their wallets and I shouldn't bother getting tested. Was also told that many doctors are keeping patient's levels too low. The body needs colustrum to function, 'specially the brain.

I'm 73, have always had dogs, have lived in various states, but the only place I've heard about heartworm is on these forums.

About vaccinating -- a good friend who's a vet told me there's no sense pumping the poison when DE is fed correctly. Critters can't get sicknesses nor diseases. I've heard this a lot thru the years. Has proven to be true at my place for over 30 years with all kinds of critters.

But, I do know folks who order the rabie vaccine from Jeffers Equine. It's available to most states. It's also sold in the feed stores here.

When they came out with the West Nile vaccine, I told friends they should wait and let others be the guinea pigs. Sure 'nuf, breeders who had been breeding for foals for years with no problems started having them big time. 
Too many abortions; foals born with missing limbs, etc.


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## Oregon Julie (Nov 9, 2006)

You know with regards to heartworm. When one of my vets was pushing me to put all of my dogs on a monthly poison I asked about how prevalent it was in our state and specifically our area. She, after a fashion, admitted that it had not been seen in dogs native to the area, just those who had been living elsewhere. If I lived in one of the places where heartworm was a big problem I might do a preventative, however I would be far more likely to look for something natural and if I couldn't find something natural I sure as heck would not be doing the poison stuff year round.

Ditto on the West Nile thing. Some of the fall out from that has been just horrific. Not worth the risk IMO.


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## bergere (May 11, 2002)

My sister adopted a nice dog, born to the area she lives and guess what... he was full of heart worm and wasn't doing well, as they had damaged his heart.
$3,000+ later he is free of Heart worm and has to take meds for the rest of his life.

Could of been prevented with a heart worm tablet. 

As for not giving the Rabies vaccine because a dog died from it..... If the Dog gets rabies it WILL die from it, and most likely give Rabies to a person's family and other animals. 
The cost then will be incredible. 
Not worth the risk.

For West Nile... I know of a couple of breeders that did not give the West Nile Vaccine to their animals, as they didn't believe in vaccines.
They had animals die and one, their prized stallion,, really nice one too, was left Sterile with health issues, due to the West Nile disease.

Vaccines should be staggered, as not to stress the animals system. 
And rare cases animals are allergic to the suspension.

I am in a high Rabies area and I have given all of my animals Rabies shots, since my family and I handle them on a daily bases.
I have seen passive or dumb rabies... by the time people figure it out... some times it is too late. Not willing to chance that.

If a person doesn't want to spend the money for the vaccines, that is their choice, but I don't want their animals any where near mine.


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## arabian knight (Dec 19, 2005)

Yes same here. I will give vaccines no matter what. I also give the rabies vaccine as well .
I WI you can order it from catalogs and give it yourself to your horses. Dogs have to be vet administered for registration purposes.
But I sure will give a 4 in one vaccine, then after waiting a few days rabies one, and a few days later a WN one..


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## Cliff (Jun 30, 2007)

Oregon Julie said:


> Would this be the same vet who has a monetary gain in your getting animals vaccinated yearly when it isn't needed? Yeah, that makes lots of sense.


I have to say this is true. There's too much money tied up in vaccinating people and animals these days to believe the idea that it's all for our own good is credible. Some vaccines are useful, like rabies and tetanus. Some others have not been really proven to be so, and I think some will eventually be shown to have a higher risk than benefit. But the official line is that we all "need" every vaccine that's available and often. Surely there's no financial incentive??


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## where I want to (Oct 28, 2008)

Trouble with vaccinations is they are so darn good at preventing diseases. Makes some folks think that the shots can harm (because, tah tah, you only get a reaction when you give the shots) while they see no evidence of the disease (which are prevented when most people vaccinate.) The logical conclusion must be not to vaccinate- right?

However I'm old enough to have known epidemic of polio, measles, etc. YMany people have not seen the pictures of children in iron lungs or mothers holding sick children in the hospital that were the common warnings in the news papers that an illness had reached contagion level. 
So I will always seriously consider vaccinations as the blessing they are. 
I will vaccinate for those things I consider possible and serious.


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## Cliff (Jun 30, 2007)

Rogo said:


> === Well, those who are going to say what you want to hear will answer I guess  'Cept Rogo, can't scare her. And beccachow.  ===
> 
> 
> It's not a matter of being 'scared,' it's a matter of being educated, not brainwashed.


Didn't mean scared by the disease, meant intimidated by people's disapproval that you would do something other than what they think you should.


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## where I want to (Oct 28, 2008)

Oregon Julie said:


> Would this be the same vet who has a monetary gain in your getting animals vaccinated yearly when it isn't needed? Yeah, that makes lots of sense.


Yep- that year $50 profit he makes once a year off me will certainly put him on easy street.

If you wonder about the GC tone of this thread, it is because calling people sheep and vets money grubbers is GC type of language.


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## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

Rogo said:


> When they came out with the colustrum business, I asked several of my physician friends about it. Was told the pharmaceutical folks got together with doctors looking for ways to add to their wallets and I shouldn't bother getting tested. Was also told that many doctors are keeping patient's levels too low. The body needs colustrum to function, 'specially the brain.


Do you mean cholesterol? Colostrum is pre-milk.


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## Lisa in WA (Oct 11, 2004)

I'm a huge proponent of vaccinating fr people and animals, but not when unnecessary and I do believe that vets will push unnecessary treatments on people to amp up their bills. They're getting to be a lot like dentists. Not all of course, but a lot. 
I have a terrific vet here and I trust him but he has a another vet working with him who will try to add the most ridiculous things to the bill.


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## Molly Mckee (Jul 8, 2006)

Our vet does not think rabies vaccine is necessary in this area. She also does not think we need to do heart worm preventive here as we have almost no mesquitoes. If we are traveling to areas with heart worm problems she does think it is necessary.


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## chewie (Jun 9, 2008)

Minelson said:


> Cattle has the highest incidents of rabies in South Dakota.


no kidding??! we haven't given these to our horses but it'll be on the list now. the local vets here are telling us there is little chance for west nile and that giving that one is wasting your money but the rabies one should be a 'for sure'. 

now, I could swear there was some wn in the area in the last few years. I thought that was one to be sure to not forget? 

but the rabies makes sense to me, we have tons of those critters who are big carriers, and very nosy horse, why shouldn't I give it?! we'll be getting that for them now. good thread!


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## Rogo (Jan 1, 2006)

=== Do you mean cholesterol? Colostrum is pre-milk. ===


Oh good gravy. I can't believe I typed that! Thanks for the correction.


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## Stonybrook (Sep 22, 2007)

I had a friend who used to think vets were just trying to pad their profit margin with vaccines so she never did anything but rabies (required by law in this state). That is until her beloved puppy died of parvo. We are in a low lyme disease area so a number of years ago my vet didn't recommend spending the money for the vaccine. Guess what my dog got? Lyme disease. You can bet that my dog gets the lyme vaccine now. Several dogs back, one got heart worms. Yup. They get meds for heart worms regularly now too. I know different regions of the country are more at risk for different diseases, which affects the decision to vaccinate or not. The odds may be in favor of your dog not getting a disease that could have been prevented, but if the odds work against you and your dog gets sick it will cost you more than the shot.

If you believe your vet is just trying to "take" you, I would think you need a different vet because you don't trust him/her.


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## Rogo (Jan 1, 2006)

I hear from some whenever I get a puppy that it will die from parvo 'cause I don't vaccinate. It's never happened. I just feed DE daily.

I've had my livestock guardian dog since she was 2 months old. She's now 10 years old, still doing an excellent job she chose as a pup. Never has had need to see a vet or take any medication.

I'm not against vets, doctors, vaccines, etc. I'm against what isn't needed when there's something safer.

i've had folks not familiar with livestock ask me why I don't have my riding mount's hooves trimmed. When I tell them the land (rocky here) keeps the hooves naturally trimmed, they don't understand. Same mindset as above.


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## Lisa in WA (Oct 11, 2004)

Stonybrook said:


> I had a friend who used to think vets were just trying to pad their profit margin with vaccines so she never did anything but rabies (required by law in this state). That is until her beloved puppy died of parvo. We are in a low lyme disease area so a number of years ago my vet didn't recommend spending the money for the vaccine. Guess what my dog got? Lyme disease. You can bet that my dog gets the lyme vaccine now. Several dogs back, one got heart worms. Yup. They get meds for heart worms regularly now too. I know different regions of the country are more at risk for different diseases, which affects the decision to vaccinate or not. The odds may be in favor of your dog not getting a disease that could have been prevented, but if the odds work against you and your dog gets sick it will cost you more than the shot.
> 
> If you believe your vet is just trying to "take" you, I would think you need a different vet because you don't trust him/her.


You live in TN, I live in the inland northwest. Very different climate with different disease issues. We have no heartworm here, we have no lyme disease here and very little rabies. We do vaccinate all of our animals for the standard things including rabies for cats and dogs. The vets simply don't vaccinate horses for rabies here. The horses are vaccinated for what the local vets (including the vet school at Washington State University) recommend. Vaccinating for things that are not an issue here would be stupid unless we were traveling. We also don't vaccinate for Potomac Horse Fever here like we did back east.


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## Stonybrook (Sep 22, 2007)

LisaInN.Idaho said:


> You live in TN, I live in the inland northwest. Very different climate with different disease issues. We have no heartworm here, we have no lyme disease here and very little rabies. We do vaccinate all of our animals for the standard things including rabies for cats and dogs. The vets simply don't vaccinate horses for rabies here. The horses are vaccinated for what the local vets (including the vet school at Washington State University) recommend. Vaccinating for things that are not an issue here would be stupid unless we were traveling. We also don't vaccinate for Potomac Horse Fever here like we did back east.


Which is why I said that different regions of the country are more at risk for different diseases, which affects the decision to vaccinate or not. I think we are agreeing on this point, aren't we?


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## Oregon Julie (Nov 9, 2006)

bergere said:


> My sister adopted a nice dog, born to the area she lives and guess what... he was full of heart worm and wasn't doing well, as they had damaged his heart.
> $3,000+ later he is free of Heart worm and has to take meds for the rest of his life.
> 
> Could of been prevented with a heart worm tablet.
> ...


Once again I will point out a couple of things that people are not getting from what I have said previously. 

As to heartworm. I did not say that no one should give their dog a heartworm preventative, did I? What I said is that it is not a huge problem in some parts of the US and therefore if I lived in these places, which I have and currently do, I would not and do not use it. Is there a potential for my dogs getting heartworm, sure but that is a relatively small risk in my view and I have decided I would rather not give my dog a bunch of poison once a month. The risks IMO far out weight the benefits. Don't know where your sister lives, she could live a mile down the road from were I am in Washington State and her dog could have gotten it locally, but in the 20 years I have lived in the Pacific NW with a bunch of dogs not on heartworm meds not one of mine has gotten it so I will continue to live dangerously.

Did I say don't ever give a rabies or other vaccinations at any point in this thread? NO. What I said is that they do not need jabs over and over and over again, that it is potentially damaging to their systems and does more harm then good. If they still have immunity long after the initial shots, why would you bother to give more? What is the point in that?


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## Oregon Julie (Nov 9, 2006)

where I want to said:


> Yep- that year $50 profit he makes once a year off me will certainly put him on easy street.
> 
> If you wonder about the GC tone of this thread, it is because calling people sheep and vets money grubbers is GC type of language.


You must not understand the basic math of that $50 x's the number of clients if they as a group decide not to do something for whatever reason. It seems pretty simple that if the factory that most of the people in a town work out closes down and everyone has less money they eat out less and when they do they buy the cheaper items on the menu and if effects the bottom line. It doesn't hurt when just one person buys the burger and fries rather then the t-bone, but when everyone is doing it it starts to hurt the business.

I don't recall actually calling people sheep but suggesting that they not be like sheep and just follow blindly. Also don't recall calling vets money grubbers. I did say that I didn't think asking your vet if you needed this or that vaccination over and over again was a good idea since they have a financial gain from your continuing to do so.

It is amazing how things get twisted on here sometimes. I suggest that people do the research and perhaps see that they can a) benefit their pocket book and b) most importantly benefit their animal by not giving them shots when they are not needed beyond a certain point. Yet somehow this gets all screwed around into something entirely different in peoples minds.


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## BetsyK in Mich (May 14, 2002)

A Vet traveling around in a loaded pickup and spending a half hour to an hour to earn $50 or 100, isn't going to pay off her student loan very fast.

I would have thought that imported dogs from other countries would have required all sorts of vaccinations?


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## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

Rogo said:


> About vaccinating -- a good friend who's a vet told me there's no sense pumping the poison when DE is fed correctly. Critters can't get sicknesses nor diseases. I've heard this a lot thru the years. Has proven to be true at my place for over 30 years with all kinds of critters.
> 
> But, I do know folks who order the rabie vaccine from Jeffers Equine. It's available to most states. It's also sold in the feed stores here.
> 
> ...


Seriously? Vaccinations are poisons? DE fed animals _cannot_ get sicknesses or diseases? 

I can't take the "DE cures all ills" spiel any longer, someone is going to believe that crap. Feeding dirt has never been proven to do anything. On the other hand, vaccinations are proven to at least partially protect against disease or it wouldn't have been _approved_ for that use. Perhaps if you live in a desert you don't need to do some vaccinations, deworm, trim hooves etc. but it is not a blanket statement for everyone everywhere. Perhaps a disclaimer on your DE posts would clarify that it's your opinion and not a fact. 

The West Nile vaccine does not cause birth defects- that was debunked in 2003. Here's a link from AVMA based on a national study by Vets: APHIS: West Nile virus vaccine safe for use - August 15, 2003

To answer the OP I vaccinate with a mail order (ValleyVet) 5-way and have the Vet do a rabies yearly (in NY there must be a paper trail for rabies shots, it can't be owner administered). All the cats and the dog also get rabies shots as it's a real problem here. When we were showing and I was breeding mares I added more vaccinations but they don't leave the property now.


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## Rogo (Jan 1, 2006)

=== DE fed animals cannot get sicknesses or diseases? 
Feeding dirt has never been proven to do anything. ===


You naysayers are something else!! 

DE has been used for thousands of years around the world, its uses passed down through word of mouth. It's not dirt; it's fossilized plants from the oceans and lakes. No one knows why it works like it does, but frankly, I don't care.

I've seen and heard about many 'incurable' diseases reversed.

I know physicians and vets who take DE and feed DE to their critters. They won't tell their patients/clients about it 'cause they know they won't see them again. I've asked both professions about the oath they took to heal. They all say the same thing, "I have to feed my family."

You don't have to use DE. That's your choice. Everything that breathes around here gets DE daily and I've enjoyed a lot of years without vet or medical bills. At 73 years, I have no prescriptions, no over the counter medications, not even aspirin in my house. Not needed. And my passion is still riding my mule on tough mountain rides. He's 24.


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## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

Rogo said:


> You naysayers are something else!!
> 
> DE has been used for thousands of years around the world, its uses passed down through word of mouth. It's not dirt; it's fossilized plants from the oceans and lakes. No one knows why it works like it does, but frankly, I don't care.
> 
> ...


The proof is in the pudding- cite anything from an independent study that indicates that DE can cure an "incurable" disease, heck cite an independent study that indicates it does _anything_ except kill slugs in the garden. Stating that DE can cure or prevent disease is irresponsible at best. Your information is anecdotal and cannot be substaniated in any way.


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## Rogo (Jan 1, 2006)

=== The West Nile vaccine does not cause birth defects- that was debunked in 2003. ===


The pharmaceutical company and vets can attempt to cover it up, but I knew some of the folks whose mares had too many abortions and foals without limbs. They've never given the WN vaccine since and life went back to normal.


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## Rogo (Jan 1, 2006)

=== The proof is in the pudding- cite anything from an independent study that indicates that DE can cure an "incurable" disease ===


You won't find independent studies except those that folks have done themselves, but you'll find tons of testimonials from everyday folks who have lived it besides me.

Enough sparring. Go educate yourself.


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## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

Rogo said:


> === The proof is in the pudding- cite anything from an independent study that indicates that DE can cure an "incurable" disease ===
> 
> 
> You won't find independent studies except those that folks have done themselves, but you'll find tons of testimonials from everyday folks who have lived it besides me.
> ...


I have an education which is why I don't use anecdotal information to support my opinion as fact. I can say (and indicate that neighbors, Drs, and Vets agree) that ground celery seed can cure disease but there's no proof that it actually can... just like DE.

Stating as fact that DE can cure disease is irresponsible.


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## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

Rogo said:


> === The West Nile vaccine does not cause birth defects- that was debunked in 2003. ===
> 
> 
> The pharmaceutical company and vets can attempt to cover it up, but I knew some of the folks whose mares had too many abortions and foals without limbs. They've never given the WN vaccine since and life went back to normal.


It's all a vast conspiracy, right?


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## DamnearaFarm (Sep 27, 2007)

Irish Pixie said:


> I have an education which is why I don't use anecdotal information to support my opinion as fact. I can say (and indicate that neighbors, Drs, and Vets agree) that ground celery seed can cure disease but there's no proof that it actually can... just like DE.
> 
> Stating as fact that DE can cure disease is irresponsible.


Girl....sometimes I think you and I share a brain....


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## mplatt4 (Mar 24, 2007)

sorry for my stupidity but what exactly is DE and where do you get it and under what name


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## haypoint (Oct 4, 2006)

BetsyK in Mich said:


> A Vet traveling around in a loaded pickup and spending a half hour to an hour to earn $50 or 100, isn't going to pay off her student loan very fast.
> 
> I would have thought that imported dogs from other countries would have required all sorts of vaccinations?


I think that's on par with what a plumber with a 12 week trade school education charges.

I'm beginning to understand why there aren't enough large animal Vets anymore. Pounding the roads for $50 a farm visit and get called money grubbers.

As far as vaccinations, i think it worked fairly good for small pox, wouldn't you say? It is gone!

Thousands of people die every year from rabies. Not many are from the US. Do you know why? Bingo! We vaccinate our animals.:cowboy:

Wow, Rogo, you have friends that immunized for West Nile and lost foals, therefor vaccines cause birth defects. I have a friend that is a Ron Paul supporter and he is stupid, therefore support of a fringe candidate causes a loss of brain activity. I've seen it myself. :bash:


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## Maverick_mg (Mar 11, 2010)

DE stands for DIATOMACEOUS EARTH. It's the fossilized skeletons of micro plants and animals. It's used in everything from pool filters to natural insect control. 
I use Red Lake DE on my farm. I feed it and dust the ground with it. It does kill insects like flees, slugs and other insects that have a soft body, by drying them out. 
I do not believe it is a cure all but I do feel it helps. 
I feel by using it in conjunction with the vaccines I choose to give and the commercial wormer I give maybe once a year now, that I get more out of those treatments and there for find that I have to repeat things, like wormer, less often. 

On things like DE vs Vaccines or even Raw milk vs Pasteurized, I don't feel we will ever have anyone really study these things to find out if there is a right and wrong. Neither side wants to be wrong, and sometimes you can be mostly right but the other side will get hung up on the wrong bits and the truth is lost or ignored. These issues are too important to people because personal beliefs and opinions are wrapped up in them. 
Because of this it can be tuff to really know if your doing the right thing or not especially if you choose to step outside of what is usually done. 
I say do your own research to the best of your ability and fully own your decision. If you choose to do something outside of the norm, don't expect approval and don't apologize for it. For the time being, it's still you choice. 
IMHO


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