# Shipping container homestead



## Sdom001 (Jan 9, 2015)

Hey everyone, I wasn't sure if this was the right section to put this in since it will mostly be about building the house to start with. Admins if it's not please feel free to move it.
I've been off the forum for a while but been very busy. I have since bought 45 acres with 13 acres being pasture with the rest all hardwoods and a few pines. The property also has a very wide creek that flows through it,a spring fed stream and a spring fed watering hole. The wife and I have decided that we will homestead the property. We will have a few cows, chickens, a couple pigs and the rabbits we already raise.
We decided to build the house from 4 shipping containers. It will be all one story, 2700 sqft total with a 6' wide wrap around porch. I have already started constructing the house and i am chronologging the build on my blog for those who are interested on the step by step process. I will also be posting updates on here, just not in as much detail.


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## Bret (Oct 3, 2003)

Nice drawing and kids in the creek. A very good start. All the best.


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## OhioHomestead (Mar 25, 2016)

looks good, I look forward to seeing the end product we have talked about doing this before.


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## itsb (Jan 13, 2013)

nice lookin property, what part of the country you in. good luck and enjoy


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## Sdom001 (Jan 9, 2015)

I am in the Southeast


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## haypoint (Oct 4, 2006)

For areas without zoning or building codes, this might be a fun way to go. Would be interesting to compare the difference in cost between a standard stud wall and a shipping container. Perhaps it is done to be different?

If you plan on covering the interior walls with drywall, paneling or boards, there isn't any cost saving either way. If you plan to insulate, stud walls without a shipping container would be cheaper. If you plan to side the exterior, stud walls is cheaper than screwing furring strips on a steel container for siding.

I guess what I'm saying is that the cost of a home isn't in the shell. No matter what you build the shell out of, that cost is going to be about the same. The cost of home construction is in insulation, wiring, plumbing, lighting, heat and air conditioning, cupboards, bathroom fixtures and windows. 

In your climate, a concrete slab, with PEC waterlines in the floor, hooked to a water heater for radiant heat, stud walls and attic truss won't cost you more than 4 shipping containers. What are you putting under the containers to stop mold, mildew, rust and prevent shifting of each container?


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## Forcast (Apr 15, 2014)

What do the containers cost?


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## OhioHomestead (Mar 25, 2016)

Forcast said:


> What do the containers cost?


https://columbus.craigslist.org/hvd/5512136025.html

In my area they from 2500 to 3k for a 40ft container.


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## Sdom001 (Jan 9, 2015)

I am doing spray foam insulation underneath the containers. I got the first 2 delivered to my property for $2500. each for the 45' ones. You can still build this type of a home in areas with zoning and building codes, it's been done already.


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## haypoint (Oct 4, 2006)

So you are spray foaming the bottoms? what about the walls? What keeps vermin from digging tunnels and nests in the foam?

Is there any lumber yard, near you, that offers a package home, just the wall studs, floor joists, truss, sheathing, windows and shingles? You might find that conventional construction is less costly and resale more reliable. You may not be concerned with resale. But everything gets sold, eventually.


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## Sdom001 (Jan 9, 2015)

Walls are also getting spray foamed. There will be concrete walls connecting all the outermost piers therefore enclosing underneath the house. 
As for keeping away vermin the same as you would with a stick house-- an exterminator. 
Lumber needs are ruduced because lumber needed is only to hold drywall so i wont need the same amount or dimensions a stick built house would for structural reasons. 
As for resale your right i am not worried about it. This house is stronger and will last longer than a conventional house built by todays methods will. It wont burn down to the ground, it will hold up to a strong storm better than stick built. And its termite proof.


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## Muleman (Nov 8, 2013)

Well you are on your way already so no turning back at this point. I too did extensive research on this type of construction and the numbers just did not pan out for me to show any benefit. But I hope it meets your expectations when it is all done. Best of luck to you. Thanks, for sharing your experience.


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## Sdom001 (Jan 9, 2015)

I can understand the numbers dont always work out in favor especially if you live in an area that's heavily regulated and building code restrictive. I think it also depends on the design or even the size of the house overall. The smaller the better the numbers work. 
Thanks for the support its definitely going to be an experience.


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## Muleman (Nov 8, 2013)

Well, I do not know where you are located, but I suspect not far away from the pictures. I am in North Central Arkansas. NO, that is right NONE, zero, building codes outside the city limits, so that was not a factor in my decision. I am not meaning this to be discouraging at all, so I hope you do not take it that way, just trying to relate some of the info I came up with. Initial cost for the containers was basically the same as a stick build frame. This seemed like a big step forward as it would already be dried in, so I assumed that would lead to reduced cost later on, but that was not the case. I was looking at potential labor savings and more importantly time savings. What I came up with was in a weeks time I could have containers setting on my property ready to add on to. That was the big plus I was looking at. I am about 2 1/2 hours from Memphis and containers are available to me for $1800 each and I have a truck and trailer and the means to unload and place them myself, so that incurred no additional cost, besides fuel and time. The money really started to add up when it came to finishing cost. What I was looking at was lightly framing the insides in order to finish it into living spaces. All interior walls were the same as stick built, cost wise and labor time wise. Again the exterior needed some type of siding as well, so no cost saving or labor savings there. What I seen when I figured it all up was the only benefit I gained was the fact I could have the containers sitting on my property quick! Which at the time seemed like a big head start. But the finish work was the same as stick built for every other aspect. Insurance was not even going to be a big difference for me. The heating and cooling properties of metal is not very good and leads to sweating on the inside, which leads to mold problems if a dehumidifier is not used. That was a big downside for me.

Again I am not trying to discourage you, just pointing out some of the info. I came up with when considering a similar project. I will be very interested to follow the build and see where you are at as it progresses.


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## 1948CaseVAI (May 12, 2014)

Have you checked to see if you can insure the "house" when you finish it? 

I am not a fan of government but most building codes exist for the reason to keep people from making costly or dangerous mistakes.


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## Muleman (Nov 8, 2013)

I understand what you are saying, but I have to disagree a bit. I have seen them try to push for building codes in my area and it is all about revenue. Well, that and neighbors who are too ---- worried about what some body else is doing on their property. I just got no use for building regulations and would not even consider living somewhere where I had to get a permit to build a building on my own property. I understand the comfort these regulations and inspections may give those with no idea what it takes to build something, but they are more than welcome to hire someone who can help them if they need it, but I should not have to pay to build my house, becasue some one else does not know how to build theirs. I have seen some of what is built according to "Code" in some places and I would not live in that. I know how contractors build and I know how they cut corners to turn a profit and stay within "codes". I just do not buy it, codes and regulations are about revenue, plain and simple.

I will add to that those state certified electricians and plumbers are not what they are cracked up to be either. I have seen several jobs some so called "Certified electricians have done and you open a electrical box and it looks like a bird nest inside. No, I will not be hiring anyone to do any of that work. I learned my lesson years ago when I hired a sheet rock finisher, thinking "he is a professional" so he should be able to do better than I have been doing in the other rooms, only to find out his work looked like a kid did it. I went back to doing my own stuff and have not hired anyone to build anything since then and have no plans to. 

Sorry, for the rant, I just don't buy the idea of a need for codes, regulations and hiring "Certified" or "Licenced" people to do work on my property. I already pay enough taxes without having hidden taxes in the form of "Making sure I am safe from myself"


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## haypoint (Oct 4, 2006)

Muleman said:


> I understand what you are saying, but I have to disagree a bit. I have seen them try to push for building codes in my area and it is all about revenue. Well, that and neighbors who are too ---- worried about what some body else is doing on their property. I just got no use for building regulations and would not even consider living somewhere where I had to get a permit to build a building on my own property. I understand the comfort these regulations and inspections may give those with no idea what it takes to build something, but they are more than welcome to hire someone who can help them if they need it, but I should not have to pay to build my house, becasue some one else does not know how to build theirs. I have seen some of what is built according to "Code" in some places and I would not live in that. I know how contractors build and I know how they cut corners to turn a profit and stay within "codes". I just do not buy it, codes and regulations are about revenue, plain and simple.
> 
> I will add to that those state certified electricians and plumbers are not what they are cracked up to be either. I have seen several jobs some so called "Certified electricians have done and you open a electrical box and it looks like a bird nest inside. No, I will not be hiring anyone to do any of that work. I learned my lesson years ago when I hired a sheet rock finisher, thinking "he is a professional" so he should be able to do better than I have been doing in the other rooms, only to find out his work looked like a kid did it. I went back to doing my own stuff and have not hired anyone to build anything since then and have no plans to.
> 
> Sorry, for the rant, I just don't buy the idea of a need for codes, regulations and hiring "Certified" or "Licenced" people to do work on my property. I already pay enough taxes without having hidden taxes in the form of "Making sure I am safe from myself"


Do you know what they call a guy that graduated last in his class from Medical School? Doctor.:hysterical:

Just because a guy managed to pass the test to be a Residential Contractor, doesn't mean he can build a bird house. Always check references before you hire anyone. :sing:

Folks always chafe at zoning, preferring the freedom to do what you want on your property. Their tune changes when a thousand sow hog operation is built next to their house. A three story apartment complex. A motocross race track. A dead cattle rendering plant. A 5 million hen egg operation, with a two acre dead hen composting pile. A huge puppy mill.
You can't have it both ways.:help:

Sometimes insurance companies won't insure a place built without a professional inspection. Might not matter now, but may later. 

Every place sells eventually. What it is worth will matter, someday. 

When most communities place restrictions on things though of as blight, things like junk cars, tarpaper shacks, old house trailers, they concentrate on the places they are permitted. You may get to witness your remote piece of paradise evolve into a shanty town.

No judgment. Just understand that the other side of the "I want to do what I want on my property" coin is "I am willing to tolerate every sort of nastiness my neighbors might come up with".ound:


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## Sdom001 (Jan 9, 2015)

Muleman said:


> Well, I do not know where you are located, but I suspect not far away from the pictures. I am in North Central Arkansas. NO, that is right NONE, zero, building codes outside the city limits, so that was not a factor in my decision. I am not meaning this to be discouraging at all, so I hope you do not take it that way, just trying to relate some of the info I came up with. Initial cost for the containers was basically the same as a stick build frame. This seemed like a big step forward as it would already be dried in, so I assumed that would lead to reduced cost later on, but that was not the case. I was looking at potential labor savings and more importantly time savings. What I came up with was in a weeks time I could have containers setting on my property ready to add on to. That was the big plus I was looking at. I am about 2 1/2 hours from Memphis and containers are available to me for $1800 each and I have a truck and trailer and the means to unload and place them myself, so that incurred no additional cost, besides fuel and time. The money really started to add up when it came to finishing cost. What I was looking at was lightly framing the insides in order to finish it into living spaces. All interior walls were the same as stick built, cost wise and labor time wise. Again the exterior needed some type of siding as well, so no cost saving or labor savings there. What I seen when I figured it all up was the only benefit I gained was the fact I could have the containers sitting on my property quick! Which at the time seemed like a big head start. But the finish work was the same as stick built for every other aspect. Insurance was not even going to be a big difference for me. The heating and cooling properties of metal is not very good and leads to sweating on the inside, which leads to mold problems if a dehumidifier is not used. That was a big downside for me.
> 
> Again I am not trying to discourage you, just pointing out some of the info. I came up with when considering a similar project. I will be very interested to follow the build and see where you are at as it progresses.


Not taking it as discouraging. And although there are no building codes and requirments to get inspectins in my county, I am following what building codes are for the state. I am hiring licensed contractors for certain aspects like electrical, hvac and I am documenting the entire build process with reciepts and pictures of every stage in case of being needed for the future.


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## haypoint (Oct 4, 2006)

I have a close friend that bought an old brick school and converted it into a house. It had 16 foot ceilings, so making part of it into two stories worked well. 

He started with a solid structure. But adding heat, water and electrical was a challenge. Replacing the roof, windows, drywall and everything that required working around the existing structure was costly.

He once said, he would have been better off starting from an empty lot and building a house that looked like the school, but had conventional walls and made to be comfortable, would have been far cheaper.

Another friend was given a big farmhouse. Just had to move it. After all the work getting it ready to move, building a walk out basement to match the shape of the house, the moving company, he had a house that was ready to live in. Except, it needed insulation, wiring, plumbing, furnace, cupboards, flooring, shingles, soffit, facia, windows, siding. Again, a conventional new home would have been better and cheaper.
We often joked that every lumber yard should buy old empty homes and give them away as a method to snare new customers.
When I was growing up, I learned the story of "Stone Soup". You can make enough soup to feed the village, using just stones. As the story evolves, "improvements" to this soup are requested. Eventually, everything that would go into a good soup are added to the stone soup. I think a shipping container house is a lot like stone soup.


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## Sdom001 (Jan 9, 2015)

haypoint said:


> I have a close friend that bought an old brick school and converted it into a house. It had 16 foot ceilings, so making part of it into two stories worked well.
> 
> He started with a solid structure. But adding heat, water and electrical was a challenge. Replacing the roof, windows, drywall and everything that required working around the existing structure was costly.
> 
> ...


I'm sorry for you that you feel that way. But for me this is the way I have decided to go so either enjoy the thread and help with suggestions or move along but continuing to tell me its not worth it isnt going to change anything for me.


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## Muleman (Nov 8, 2013)

Hayp, I understand what you are saying and I understand there are extreme cases where this type of offensive building happens. I have a property next to one of my properties which I would like to buy, but have not yet. I would not like to see it purchased and broken up like much of the land in our area is into little 3 acres vacation houses. But, I can honestly say, if someone bought it, before I can afford to or choose to, then I would not fault them and think they would be well within their rights. My dad lives in town and the city has been out to his house several times over neighbor complains of "Stuff" in his yard. he is 83 years old and at this point will simply not change the way he has lived all his life. Each time he would walk around and discuss the various things he has with the mayor or inspector and after the discussion they would leave, becasue there is no actual violations even though others may not like the stuff. 

I know as you point out there is extreme cases, but it is simply my view that in 99% of the cases codes and regulations as to land use are revenue sources and control mechanisms, which I do not feel are needed, or burdens the landowners with extra cost for no real benefit to them.

The last time the county tried to pass building codes for the county was mainly becasue outside people were moving here and having local contractors build them homes in some of the rural areas, then when it was completed they were not happy with the outcome. My take on this is why should I need to have inspections on my property, to protect those who do not do as you said and get references on the people they hire?

The sheet rock work I had done was not good, but as I have looked at other houses, I think it is normal. But at the same time I would not want anyone to pass any kind of sheet rock code to protect me in the future from bad sheet rock work. 

Anyway, that is my take on it, not saying everyone has to agree or not, just the way I view it, but then again maybe my engineering background gives me a skewed view of the process?


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## Muleman (Nov 8, 2013)

The idea behind accepted building styles is that they are proven designs, many over a very long term or focused on particular building materials. What that gives a person is a track record of what works and what does not, or does not work as well. That is not to say alternatives to these accepted building styles is not a viable option, it just says they are not proven (YET). Now, keep in mind new building styles and materials come along all the time, they will all be proven given time. They may prove to be good or bad or maybe fall somewhere in the middle of acceptable performance, but maybe not the best. Or who knows maybe some one will stumble on something that works even better than the "Accepted" styles of building. Now admittedly this is unlikely as there is huge financial incentive for large companies to make good products that are profitable, so a lot of research has gone into most accepted building designs and materials, but again, nothing is 100%, so there is room for others.

Building with containers does have a track record in the last few years and has been done many times over in various designs I have seen. I can not tell you I see a big benefit, but there are some, such as I mentioned the speed at which they can be set and a person can have a dried in shell of a building. That may be a big benefit, depending on the circumstances and location. 

Financially are they going to be an advantage? Everything I know about them says there is not an advantage by the time you get to the completed structure, ready to live in. But hey, it is only money and that may not be everyone's main concern.

Is there structural advantages? IDK on the outset there seems to be based on the idea it is a big steel box, but the strengths of these containers is really limited to the four corners and downward or "(stacking) pressures based on their original use. So for me it is yes and no?

What about protection from storms? Well they are metal and do make great conductors for lightening if they are elevated? I have seen what a tornado does to them when loaded with 40K plus pounds of freight on a semi trailer and they are tossed around like tin cans. So, unless a person has a very good way to anchor them I am not certain they would offer a lot of protection in a tornado scenario.

Ease of construction (finishing work) With a torch and some basic metal working tools I would not see it as a big challenge, but admittedly maybe more difficult than stick build, based solely on the ease of cutting wood, compared to metal.

Look, I think we can all agree building with containers is not going to be the next "Big" thing to hit the housing market. We are not going to see subdivisions filled with container houses anytime in the near future (maybe not even the distant future?) But, does that make it a bad idea all together? probably not, just not an idea or building style what will meet everyone's expectations. 

I know people who drive around in cars!! I can not think of a more wasted form of transportation! You can not haul things in it, it is low to the ground and you can not pull a trailer with most of them. A car certainly would not meet my everyday needs, but for many it meets their needs and expectations, even if some of them do cost more than a pickup? (ok there are some expensive pickups also)

The point being, if the OP is happy with this decision has the funds to build it and he believes it will meet his expectations?, I say go for it and I will follow along to see the progress. I will say, be honest about the build, be honest when you find things you like as well as things you dislike. 

There is a lot of information out there on both sides of the fence. Those who hate them and those who think it is the best thing since the discovery of fire. There are also various reasons for these opinions. people honestly do not think it is a good idea, to those who simply do not understand the concept, to those who stand to make a profit from convincing someone it is a good idea, to those who are genuinely happy with their finished container house.

I know some may say maybe you are doing it just to have something different. I say, what is wrong with that? is that not the reason you see many different types of building materials used in construction? Everyone has different likes and dislikes, wants and needs. Proving that what we like is the absolute best is not a requirement, just proving to ourselves that it will meet our expectations and needs?

Anyway, that is how I see it and as I said before, I look forward to seeing the progress you make and would be extremely interested in the financial aspect of the various steps along the way and the finished cost per sq. ft for the structure.


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## Sdom001 (Jan 9, 2015)

Very well said thank you.


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## eXo0us (Nov 14, 2015)

Love the idea !!

Heads up, there are many shipping container houses around the world. In Europe it is much more common then in the USA. (Just because used Mobile homes are still so much cheaper then shipping containers) 

I mean you get a used mobile home from a dealer for less then 10k. Or people just move into a camper.
That's why a shipping container house are not usual in the states. In Europe, there are no manufactured housing. And you pay a arm and a leg for a one room condo/flat.

The plans of the house look great, You probably won't see that it's from container later.

What would be awesome if you could keep track of the the cost and overview of the hours you put in. So we can compare.

Good look !


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## Sdom001 (Jan 9, 2015)

There is a new update post on the blog.
http://asheepdogproject.info/2016/04/11/crane-day/
Crane day-- setting the containers


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## Sdom001 (Jan 9, 2015)

I got some work done on the house yesterday. I started cutting out the interior walls and the temporary front door. Full story here at the blog but here are some teaser pics.
http://wp.me/p1wej9-jU


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## Muleman (Nov 8, 2013)

look forward to seeing some more. I would offer a bit of advice, as I see you are cutting with a grinder and cutting wheels. I would seriously consider finding a plasma cutter, it would make your life so much easier. I know I use mine a lot and for this type material it would just be night and day compared to using a grinder.


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## Steve_S (Feb 25, 2015)

I've seen a few different methods of using Sea Cans for homes / cottages & shops in my area (North Eastern, Ontario, Canada) which is subject to temps of -30C to +30C (-22F to 86F) that are normal, of course those are averages and are often exceeded and our humidity can be a severe to extreme in summer.

The can be put on slabs, piers/pillings and even foundations with basements (although that is rare). Often the floor panels are removed insulated underneath and "clean wood" replaced. The chemicals used for the shipping container wood is pretty extreme and you have no idea of what has been spilled on there over the 15 year service span.

There are 3 methods typically used to insulate Sea Cans, 'inside' or 'outside' or 'both sides' which is usually determined by the intended use. There are advantages & disadvantages and costs to be considered. The advantage of insulating on the "exterior / outside" is you are preventing heat transfer TO the box which can hit Oven Temps quite fast in the sunlight making it much more liveable in summer... the thermal break from the steel panels is important, even a 1" layer of foam or 1-2" Foil Faced ISO will payback quickly.

Humidity / moisture inside the "can" is the bugger to deal with, you have really got have good airflow throughout to prevent moulds & mildews and avoid creating a "sick house". An air exchanger / HRV system is highly suggested.

Have a peek at local commercial roofing companies, those that do malls, offices etc... They often have "take off / strip off" insulation, usually ISO (paper faced) between 2" & 6" thickness @ R5 per inch which is perfect condition at pennies on the dollar, as well as High Density XPS (think RoofMate TM) up to 4" (R20). Typically thicknesses over 2" for ISO or XPS is reserved for commercial and not avail at home builder supplier like Homedepot or Lowes. 

I purchased all my ISO (2", 3-1/2", 4") and my 4" XPS (RoofMate tm) from a commercial roofer. When they redo big commercial facilities they take off the layers of XPS, ISO and will resell the sheets. There is nothing wrong with them and they are usually treated paper faced. NB: I used the 4" RoofMate XPS under my slab foundation which is a Frost Protected Slab with 3/4" PEX embedded. 

Costs were for the ISO: 

 2.0"x4'x4'=$3 ea 
 3.5"x4'x4'=$7 ea 
 3.5"x4'x8'=$14 ea 
 4.0"x4'x4'=$8 ea 
 4.0"x4'x4' XPS RoofMate(tm)=$10ea 

Something a neighbour found out about last year with a "Hard Lesson"... big steel box on a hill attracts lightning ! The Big Faraday Cage your going to live in needs to be really well grounded at multiple points. I know it's obvious but needs mentioning just in case.

Welding Corten Steel requires gas welding and no tinker toy MIG, so when you cut your door / window opening and need to weld in supports, be prepared to do it properly lest you want to sound like an extremely drunk sailor on a Saturday Night in port after 6 months at sea.

Hope it helps and don't get discouraged, ask questions and keep a few grains of salt handy too. I have to say this as well... The ONLY Stupid Question is the one that remains un-asked, if you don't know or aren't certain, ASK... if someone bashes the question, 'they' are the dimmies.


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## Ozarka (Apr 15, 2007)

There are some folks over by Winslow, Ark. that are building a very sophisticated home bwtween 2 containers. go to facebook and search for Con Tainer, Winslow


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## Kaos (Oct 7, 2008)

I'm impressed by your desire to build a home from shipping containers. Obviously it can and has been done, but still a challenge. Don't worry about naysayers, good luck with your home.


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## Canyonero (Jan 20, 2016)

Any idea of what your finished sq./ft. cost will be?

Someone mentioned a plasma cutter - +1 on that. Not terribly expensive, and I have to believe that it'd more than pay for itself.


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## OhioHomestead (Mar 25, 2016)

I'm currently making plans to build a home on some property soon. My plan is to do it pretty much alone. I was curious what you guys thought about using one of the containers as storage underground? could you bury one and make it a root cellar? or use multiple as a basement?

Just thinking outloud


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## Steve in PA (Nov 25, 2011)

OhioHomestead said:


> I'm currently making plans to build a home on some property soon. My plan is to do it pretty much alone. I was curious what you guys thought about using one of the containers as storage underground? could you bury one and make it a root cellar? or use multiple as a basement?
> 
> Just thinking outloud



Replying to subscribe to the thread. 

We're in the research phase of building a new home. We currently live in a stone home and very much like that it doesn't blow around when we are having storms like a conventional home does. That was what spurred further research. What we are looking at won't even have the containers visible.

About buying them...bad idea. Plenty of pics on the internet of folks who tried it and it collapsed. The walls aren't build for lateral loads like that.


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## Sdom001 (Jan 9, 2015)

Sorry guys, I've been busy building and haven't updated in a few days I will have some more this weekend.
Canyonero I have estimated that the cost to build will be around 65,000 basic which means before my wifes taste gets involved in final selections like cabinets and fixtures and such....lol. total sqft will be 2700.


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## Bret (Oct 3, 2003)

Good follow through on your vision. Keep at it. Enjoying the progress.


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## Sdom001 (Jan 9, 2015)

As promised a new update.
Installing windows- http://wp.me/p1wej9-kf


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## Muleman (Nov 8, 2013)

Ohiohomestead, check this video out about buried container houses. I know some have had failures at the endeavor, but some have been very successful as well. 

[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z0oFJ2jbkDI[/ame]


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## Muleman (Nov 8, 2013)

Sdom, I got to blame you for my renewed interest in containers. I went a few weeks back and picked up a 20' one for storage, but the 40' high cubes were the same price. I did not have a 40' trailer, but after a week of building, I do now, so I will be going back to Memphis in a week or so after my other two 40' high cubes I paid for. Making a shop with a pair of them, but now seriously considering an underground house with a couple more. The price has come way down on these things since the last time I looked at them over a year ago. Dragging them home with my truck cost me about $100 in fuel for the 340 mile round trip.


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## Ozarka (Apr 15, 2007)

This on the raddio last night. House is N. of Eureka Springs.

http://kuaf.com/post/couple-cobbles-home-using-maritime-shipping-containers#stream/0

The movement is gaining steam.....


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## Muleman (Nov 8, 2013)

Well, truth is the economy is still not getting any better and I think people are not as prepared any more to take on a $100k plus mortgage or come up with a big down payment, but containers as well as some other non-traditional building styles lets a person start out with a smaller investment and have a place to live, even if not fully finished and then build, as they have the money. 

Just like everything however, there are those who go at it unprepared or uneducated and make mistakes and fail or are not happy, or spend a lot of unnecessary money. Then there are those who do some homework, have some common sense and a skill set to do some of the work themselves and they can make it work and have something that works for them.

I think the important part is to have reasonable expectations and do some planning and research ahead of time to really know what you are getting into. I could point out utter failures and absolute spectacular achievements, low end builds and high end builds. It really all depends on the point I am wanting to make as to whether I try to show it in a good light or bad, but that has nothing to do with what someone else decides to build really.


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## melli (May 7, 2016)

OhioHomestead said:


> I'm currently making plans to build a home on some property soon. My plan is to do it pretty much alone. I was curious what you guys thought about using one of the containers as storage underground? could you bury one and make it a root cellar? or use multiple as a basement?
> 
> Just thinking outloud


I researched shipping containers underground, thoroughly, and was dismayed to hear they'd need a lot of reinforcing to handle loads, both horizontal and vertical, as they were engineered to take weight on corners only...I pretty much forgot all the research and resigned myself to getting pre cast concrete boxes used for pedestrian underpasses etc...but, the vid above has renewed my hope I could use my shipping container for my evil plans (root cellar under a walkway). 
The guy in vid did no side reinforcement...I get the slab on top. However, his container parking spot was in compact till...the walls held up without reinforcing hill. My spot is in a depression, and I'll be putting loose fill over it. I guess each situation is different, but was still amazed he had no side reinforcement. 
:shrug:


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## Muleman (Nov 8, 2013)

another relatively inexpensive side reinforcement method may be rocks and concrete in layers, maybe a foot or so at a time, so as not to apply all the pressure at one time on the side way. Remember the wall would just be for support not meant to be waterproof, so it would not matter if it was absolutely solid. lay in 1 foot of large rock, then cover with concrete. let dry and repeat until you are at the level you want. Some re-bar used in the process vertically would probably be a good idea to hold all the layers together.

I would not put one in a wet area or an area that would not drain. The water can make these things buoyant and they will float up out of the ground it the area can be saturated with water. I know of a person locally who buried a large metal tank as a storage room and 2 springs in a row the ground got saturated with water in the spring and it floated up out of the ground and the hole had to be re-dug and the tank put back in a recovered.


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## melli (May 7, 2016)

Muleman said:


> another relatively inexpensive side reinforcement method may be rocks and concrete in layers, maybe a foot or so at a time, so as not to apply all the pressure at one time on the side way. Remember the wall would just be for support not meant to be waterproof, so it would not matter if it was absolutely solid. lay in 1 foot of large rock, then cover with concrete. let dry and repeat until you are at the level you want. Some re-bar used in the process vertically would probably be a good idea to hold all the layers together.
> 
> I would not put one in a wet area or an area that would not drain. The water can make these things buoyant and they will float up out of the ground it the area can be saturated with water. I know of a person locally who buried a large metal tank as a storage room and 2 springs in a row the ground got saturated with water in the spring and it floated up out of the ground and the hole had to be re-dug and the tank put back in a recovered.


That sounds like a lot of work...doing the roof of container in concrete is a job it itself. I thought about using the containers walls as one side of a form, and making a reinforced concrete wall. But the cost of doing all that will approach the cost of just buying those box culverts...
http://www.langleyconcretegroup.com/index.php?page=box-culvert

Water won't be an issue for me, just surface runoff, which can be controlled. 
The problem is I'll get a variety of fill, from shot rock to glacial till to fines. 
I agree, water laden soil against walls of shipping container will crush it or cause it to pop up, hence the reason they put heavy concrete/stone caps on LA grave-sites...even then, they have a few poppers. 

I do like the idea of those box culverts...they show up, crane them in like lego, and done, except for waterproofing/insulation. I can then bury them with no fear of collapse. 

But...the shipping container is the ideal size and secure. Hmmm....


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## Muleman (Nov 8, 2013)

Shipping containers are far less expensive than any other comparable size enclosed storage I have found. When ever a person can get a 40'x 8' container under $1500, I just do not know what else is out there in that price range for what you get in secure storage area.


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## vpapai (Nov 18, 2010)

Around here the 40' containers go for $2400. They are the used units that are no longer fit for overseas shipping, and are the low grade units. The one trip units are over twice the price, but are much cleaner on the floors - no toxic chemicals, and look new. Then you have the delivery charge. If you have the yard cut and weld in doors, windows, or a/c cutouts it can get real expensive, real quick. After you install electric, and insulation, then finish the interior for living, you have something that is more expensive, and much more limited sized wise, then if you would have built a regular stick built building. 

I have toyed with the idea of getting one and using it temporarily as a living space to sleep in and to install a bathroom, to use later as a shop or sleeping shelter for one of the kids to use when they visit.


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## just_sawing (Jan 15, 2006)

One of the interesting things I have noticed is that when something is not ordinary people will cling to the tried and true. 
A couple of things that I have noticed with the container homes. They tend to be welded together where they meet. The metal in a container home is not thin therefore very unpentrable. Welded joints are stronger than the standard wall construction.
I am not a fan of container houses but I am a fan of people not being steeples and rubbing the edges and making things new.


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## haypoint (Oct 4, 2006)

just_sawing said:


> One of the interesting things I have noticed is that when something is not ordinary people will cling to the tried and true.
> A couple of things that I have noticed with the container homes. They tend to be welded together where they meet. The metal in a container home is not thin therefore very unpentrable. Welded joints are stronger than the standard wall construction.
> I am not a fan of container houses but I am a fan of people not being steeples and rubbing the edges and making things new.


Yup, if you don't have a geodesic dome, earth bermed, wine bottled, cord wood stack walled, straw baled, barn wood sided, shipping containered house, you's a fool.:run:


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## melli (May 7, 2016)

haypoint said:


> Yup, if you don't have a geodesic dome, earth bermed, wine bottled, cord wood stack walled, straw baled, barn wood sided, shipping containered house, you's a fool.:run:


I suspect your being facetious, but I do see an element of truth. All forms of home building have their pros and cons, especially when one considers where they are building them. I watched a very entertaining video on an earthen home up here in a rainforest. For starters, it was tiny, took a huge team effort, and quite frankly, I wouldn't sleep well at night given we live in seismic zone. Might be perfect for Arizona (free climate control). 
Also, on the other side of Rockies, someone did theirs using wine bottles and old tires...again, I don't want tires in my walls...thank you very much. 
Stick framing, tried and true has it's drawbacks...you have to really stuff it full of insulation to get anywhere near passive haus standards, and you have a possible fire hazards, mold issues, etc. From a sustainable view, stick framing isn't all bad. 
Concrete homes, on the other hand use a lot of energy to make (huge environmental foot print and money), but if reinforced properly, are literally bullet proof and will last many generations. 

Shipping containers have their issues (search youtube pros and cons of shipping containers). Your 'sort' of limited by their rectangular size, need a structural engineer if you start chopping them up and getting cute. They have no thermal mass, so like stick framing, you have insulate the heck out of them. You also have to deal with moisture control. The floors have copious amounts of preservatives in them. I do like the simplicity of the look. I had an email conversation with the buried shipping container owner, and he has only had a 1" wall deflection, which is amazing, since he did not reinforce his walls. But again, I suspect his subsoil was perfect for direct bury (if you watched that video, the earthen walls stayed true). Deflection was probably due to the drainage rock he put around all sides. Try burying a container in a silt/clay zone and I suspect the result will be different. 

At the end of the day, all types have issues...and it depends on whether your going for a frank lloyd wright home which are glazing nightmares, but look stunning, or your looking for a low energy consumption home. 

Personally, I am going to try to go for the low energy home, but stretch the glazing so I am not in a cave. 

And no, no straw bale walls for me...great insulation, but not seismically sound. I heard about the wolf story too...


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## TAGoodwin (Mar 6, 2013)

Check out www.tincancabin.com


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## melli (May 7, 2016)

TAGoodwin said:


> Check out www.tincancabin.com


I would thank you a 100 times if I could...I've had a few dozen folks stare at my shipping in my yard and exclaim, "Why don't you build a home out of that!"

Then I'd roll my eyes and explain, there is more to it than rolling in the bed. 
I wish I could remember all those who suggested it, but I remembered a few and sent this off to them:
http://www.tincancabin.com/2013/12/the-shipping-container-cabin-in-perspective/

However, in this big brother world, there is something to be said for living in a virtual Faraday cage....lol


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## oldtruckbbq (Aug 8, 2016)

Muleman said:


> Shipping containers are far less expensive than any other comparable size enclosed storage I have found. When ever a person can get a 40'x 8' container under $1500, I just do not know what else is out there in that price range for what you get in secure storage area.


You pay that much for a portable building less than half the size, and those suckers blow apart in a high wind.


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## oldtruckbbq (Aug 8, 2016)

At the end of the day, we are each doing this because we want to do something for ourselves and in our own way. Maybe it could have been done cheaper, maybe it could have been more practical, maybe, maybe, maybe. But there is something infinitely satisfying about coming up with an idea, making it happen with your own hands (as much as possible), and working out the kinks that come along. When you can sit back and say "I did that, and I'm happy with it", the fact that you spent more money than doing it another way, or more effort than doing it another way doesn't really matter. Finding satisfaction in your labors is more valuable than money in the bank.


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## melli (May 7, 2016)

oldtruckbbq said:


> At the end of the day, we are each doing this because we want to do something for ourselves and in our own way. Maybe it could have been done cheaper, maybe it could have been more practical, maybe, maybe, maybe. But there is something infinitely satisfying about coming up with an idea, making it happen with your own hands (as much as possible), and working out the kinks that come along. When you can sit back and say "I did that, and I'm happy with it", the fact that you spent more money than doing it another way, or more effort than doing it another way doesn't really matter. Finding satisfaction in your labors is more valuable than money in the bank.


So true...
While I've made it quite clear I will not be living in a shipping container (if I can help it), I don't begrudge those who want to give it a whirl. I just got hammered with, "wow, you bought a shipping container, are you going to make a home out of it?!"
While initially, I was enthused, I PERSONALLY saw some issues that I couldn't live with. Although, I will say they are awesome storage facilities...couldn't build a sturdier storage shed (for the price) than what a shipping container offers in terms of strength, security and privacy (no windows, heavy duty locks). 

As for your underlying message, I agree. I built two sheds, one for electrical and one for well...I didn't really need to, and I certainly didn't need to build them as well as I did. But, as you said, I was very satisfied in going overboard.


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## Tinkman (Feb 23, 2011)

I am seeing this more and more with the shipping containers modular offices which are similar to a mobile home. This is some fairly cheap living. 
http://mercershelters.com


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## Forcast (Apr 15, 2014)

Muleman said:


> Sdom, I got to blame you for my renewed interest in containers. I went a few weeks back and picked up a 20' one for storage, but the 40' high cubes were the same price. I did not have a 40' trailer, but after a week of building, I do now, so I will be going back to Memphis in a week or so after my other two 40' high cubes I paid for. Making a shop with a pair of them, but now seriously considering an underground house with a couple more. The price has come way down on these things since the last time I looked at them over a year ago. Dragging them home with my truck cost me about $100 in fuel for the 340 mile round trip.


WHAT do you have to pay for them?


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## melli (May 7, 2016)

Sdom001 said:


> As promised a new update.
> Installing windows- http://wp.me/p1wej9-kf


Where you be? Sorry to be a bug, but I was perusing old threads and saw yours...was curious where you are at? 
I found this link for your framing....
http://asheepdogproject.info/2016/05/11/framing-the-interior/

Any new pics you could share with us? Looks like it is coming along. 
Best
Melli


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## ben2go (Dec 13, 2008)

I just found this. I've been around a while, just not to active because of my health issues.

I applaud you for going your own way. I live near an inland port. Currently, shipping containers start at $1900 for a 40' and the price goes down the more you buy. I was quoted $3500 for three 40s delivered to my site. 

Currently, I am building a 12x16 workshop. When it's done, and I have my other portable buildings moved down to my property, I hope to start on my container home. It will be permitted, as I live right outside a small town. Most of my interior wood will come from two mobile homes I will be tearing down. I will be salvaging the fixtures as they are all newer, and have been upgraded to standard low flow house fixtures. Also, a lot of my electrical will come from the mobile homes. 

After I get that done, I'll be doing another one in the mountains west of me. It will be small, maybe two 40s or three 20s. Just enough for me and a dog. Hopefully, it will be solar or micro-hydro powered. When my relationship dissolves itself in 2021, I'll permanently move to the container home in the mountains.

My reason for the container homes is safety. Break-ins and vandalism are bad around here. All my cut outs will be reinforced and used to cover doors and windows. I plan to travel east Asia and Europe for a year or two. I want the ability to safely shut up my container homes, and not worry about people stealing or vandalising my home.


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## TnAndy (Sep 15, 2005)

ben2go said:


> My reason for the container homes is safety. Break-ins and vandalism are bad around here. All my cut outs will be reinforced and used to cover doors and windows. I plan to travel east Asia and Europe for a year or two. I want the ability to safely shut up my container homes, and not worry about people stealing or vandalising my home.


Better have your containers hauled to a storage yard with monitoring if that is the case. Once the burglars figure out you're gone for a long period, a cordless grinder with a cutting wheel will make a new door in about 10 minutes.

This safe barely took that long, including chipping out the fire resistant cement.


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## ben2go (Dec 13, 2008)

I'll have someone watching over things. Probably one of my kids or a cousin of mine.


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## bobp (Mar 4, 2014)

Muleman said:


> I understand what you are saying, but I have to disagree a bit. I have seen them try to push for building codes in my area and it is all about revenue. Well, that and neighbors who are too ---- worried about what some body else is doing on their property. I just got no use for building regulations and would not even consider living somewhere where I had to get a permit to build a building on my own property. I understand the comfort these regulations and inspections may give those with no idea what it takes to build something, but they are more than welcome to hire someone who can help them if they need it, but I should not have to pay to build my house, becasue some one else does not know how to build theirs. I have seen some of what is built according to "Code" in some places and I would not live in that. I know how contractors build and I know how they cut corners to turn a profit and stay within "codes". I just do not buy it, codes and regulations are about revenue, plain and simple.
> 
> I will add to that those state certified electricians and plumbers are not what they are cracked up to be either. I have seen several jobs some so called "Certified electricians have done and you open a electrical box and it looks like a bird nest inside. No, I will not be hiring anyone to do any of that work. I learned my lesson years ago when I hired a sheet rock finisher, thinking "he is a professional" so he should be able to do better than I have been doing in the other rooms, only to find out his work looked like a kid did it. I went back to doing my own stuff and have not hired anyone to build anything since then and have no plans to.
> 
> Sorry, for the rant, I just don't buy the idea of a need for codes, regulations and hiring "Certified" or "Licenced" people to do work on my property. I already pay enough taxes without having hidden taxes in the form of "Making sure I am safe from myself"


Actually there are Arkansas State Building Codes covering from border to border. However it is up to the counties to enforce them. I am not aware of a single county that does any actual building inspections in Arkansas. Many Municipalities do have enforcement divisions of course. 
AND Arkansas allows a person to build one home a year, intended for they're own use. This includes the M.E.P. trade work as well. 

Theres nothing wrong with what your doing....good luck with it. 
We live in a very comfortable 'shed' conversion. I did everything myself. However i wish id hired a drywall finisher... it's basically ok but i can see a few tape joints that bug me. 2 on the vaulted ceiling have six coats ....ugggh


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## ShenLun (May 10, 2015)

melli said:


> I would thank you a 100 times if I could...I've had a few dozen folks stare at my shipping in my yard and exclaim, "Why don't you build a home out of that!"
> 
> Then I'd roll my eyes and explain, there is more to it than rolling in the bed.
> I wish I could remember all those who suggested it, but I remembered a few and sent this off to them:
> ...


Hi all, I am disability pensioner who is wanting a off grid lifestyle. People tell me it can't be done but one day will prove them wrong.

I have dreamt about building a Victorian homestead for years now, all being made from containers. As I live in a area know for hail, and it should be rust proof. 

Being a Faraday cage means internet in and no mobile (cell ,) reception suits me fine. I have to reread entire thread for more info. 

But as money is tight at the moment, I will have to be content with dreaming. We are making everything as much as possible but hospital bills are knocking the dream down for now.

Kind Regards from Country Qld,
Scott


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## melli (May 7, 2016)

ShenLun said:


> Hi all, I am disability pensioner who is wanting a off grid lifestyle. People tell me it can't be done but one day will prove them wrong.
> 
> I have dreamt about building a Victorian homestead for years now, all being made from containers. As I live in a area know for hail, and it should be rust proof.
> 
> ...


Was going to say best of luck, but you won't need luck...lol
Just taking the first step, and the next...don't have to prove your dream to anybody. As I've said, shipping container home is doable, just not for me. To each their own. 
I've seen some impressive shipping container homes...I like the industrial look. A solid well built shipping container home will last a very long time. They use Corten steel which has good durability but one has to be watchful under certain circumstances. It seems once the 'weathering layer' has formed, it is good to go. But most shipping containers are painted, so they have the added protection. 
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Weathering_steel

If I was building a shipping container home, I would see about putting on siding of some sort...would stop weathering in it's tracks.


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## Sdom001 (Jan 9, 2015)

Hey everyone. Its been a while since i've been able to post an update. I apologize but It's been a crazy past few months. I have either been at work or been at the property working on the house and haven't really had a moment to sit and write about it. Again I'm sorry. 
Anyway I have gotten a lot done so in the next few weeks or so I hope I can get you all caught up to where I actually am right now in the construction phase.
I ordered the final 2 containers and had them delivered and set. there is a full write up on the blog but here are a couple of teaser photos for you guys who are interested.


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## melli (May 7, 2016)

Looking good...visited your blog. 
Looking forward to seeing pics of interior finishing etc...
Almost seems like another stacked across the two you just set would be cool...at the ends. Have a sky bridge...


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## ben2go (Dec 13, 2008)

melli said:


> Looking good...visited your blog.
> Looking forward to seeing pics of interior finishing etc...
> Almost seems like another stacked across the two you just set would be cool...at the ends. Have a sky bridge...


With glass floors.:walk:eep:


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## Sdom001 (Jan 9, 2015)

that would be cool but the boss would never go for it...lol


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## Bret (Oct 3, 2003)

Never bet against a man with a plan and three cans. I like like like it. Keep at it. Did I see a cowboy doing rope tricks while work was going on around him? That would be me. Being a maverick is a full time thing.


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## Sdom001 (Jan 9, 2015)

New update on the house construction here's a few pics. 
Building the pony walls to support the roof.


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