# alternative method for making lye



## barefootboy

Due to the restrictions being placed on lye sold in stores because of the criminal use of it, I'd like to bring up an alterative method of making lye that does not require wood ashes.
*Note* this is presented for *informational* purposes only, and lye is dangerous, so experiment at your own risk.
I spent many years as a lab tech and learned a few tricks such as this.
I will be testing this method in the next few weeks and give a step by step report. For now, here are the basics.
Get hydrated lime at a hardware store or garden suppy ( Lowes,etc) A 50lb bag goes for $8 here. Next is a little trickier. You need to find some basic washing soap powder. It should be straight Sodium Carbonate with NO additives or perfumes. Arm and Hammer does sell it in the old blue box some of us remember for childhood, but most big box stores don't carry it. Try discount or dollar stores.
If you do get these two , simply make an equal mix of each in filtered or distilled water and carefully combine. I sugest starting out with a cup of each to get used to the steps. This will create a white solid ( Calcium Carbonate = chalk) and a liquid ( Sodium Hydroxide = Lye). Using a funnel and a coffee filter , filter out the white solid. 
I will also be experimenting with using baking powder ( Sodium Bicarbonate , a "second cousin" to the soap powder) as it is easier to get.
I realize some may question why you would go from soap powder to make soap, but if there is no other reasonable option, it is better than no option at all. We may see a total ban on lye sales soon, and you may be where there is little wood ash to be had.


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## Tinker

Sounds interesting, I will be watching to see your progress & results.


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## barefootboy

Update: Good news/bad news On the good side I found 100% Sodium Carbonate being sold as a pool chemical for$3.90 for 6lbs! On the bad side, the 50 lbs of Hydrated lime for $8 needs to be shipped from another store. I'll check a few more sources for the lime locally, but will order it by next week if I can't get it here. Meanwhile I have some garden pulverized limestone ( about 50% lime ) I can try the mix on. 
If the main mix works, which by all the chemical rules it should, you should be able to produce a lot more purer lye for your soap making , at a lower cost and avoid the legal hassles. Stay tuned same bat time,, same bat channel ( for those of you who are as old as me....LOL)


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## barefootboy

*Latest update*I was able to get a 10lb bag of hydrated lime for $10 ( horrible cost) so I could at least do small test batches. I mixed 1 tsp of the Sodium Carbonate with 3 oz of distiled water, and 1 tsp of the lime with 3 oz of distilled water. I poured them together and waited 5 minutes for the solid and liquid (lye) to seperate , then filtered the mix through a coffee filter in a funnel. The result shows all signs of being Lye. I will test it further tomorrow , and increase the size of the batches. With the 6lb container of Sodium Carbonate for $3.90 and a 50 lb bag of lime for $8 you can theoreticly make a gallon of pure lye for about $12 or so.


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## Whisperwindkat

Thanks so much for this. How would you use this lye since it is a liquid in a soap recipe. Would you dilute it just like you would the lye powder? And would you weigh it the same? Also, how do you store it? Thanks, Kat


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## gypsygoatgirl66

This is awesome.Keep usupdated.


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## barefootboy

Kat
As I have not made soap, I'm not sure about diluting it. It is in liquid form. I'll try to determine the water to lye ratio. I haven't weighted it yet,but it is heavy. The soapmakers out there might be able to advise you. As for me I wanted this to give you all an alternative method that was tested, proven and safe. I use the lye to make waterglass to store eggs ( see my thread on that in the Survival/Prepping section.)
I will, in a way be making soap with it, as it is one of the ways to test the lye. I'll use a dab of Crisco in a solution of the lye to be tested and heat it gently to see if it does make soap.
As to storage, it must be in a glass contaner with a glass lid. Lye* ATTACKS METALS* I would learn how to make it , then make it fresh as needed. *ALWAYS USE GLOVES WHEN WORKING WITH IT*. Even the tiny batches I made were enough to feel a tingling on my face


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## lathermaker

never mind. It wasn't as bad as I thought.


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## defenestrate

FYI, calcium carbonate is the active antacid found in Tums.

Good writeup. That Lime can be the base of so many things it's crazy.


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## barefootboy

lathermaker
Could you please be specific as to what part of this is a "recipie for disaster"? If you are refering to the heating of the Crisco ( fat) with the test of the lye produced, we are talking about at best a 1 oz sample under controled conditions and would *NOT* be something someone else would be doing. I am doing it only as a test of the results of the production of the lye by this method. I didn't go into the details, but to address what you said, I will be using the steam bath/water bath technique to safely heat the mix.
The goal here is an economical , easy and *SAFE* method of producing the lye as it has become harder for people making soap to get it. Once I am assured of the *SAFETY* and reliability I will offer the process. This must be something an average person can do without any fancy lab equipment or training and get a good result *SAFELY*
I respect the fact that you feel your statement was meant in a helpful way, but I also feel it is too general. This does not make your statement wrong, as , yes, lye can go volcanic, but only under a certain set of conditions.
If you feel the information I am giving out is dangerous, then please inform us all by scientific means, that is under what conditions and risk factors. I am taking this slowly and carefully so those reading it can follow me to the end, which is a *SAFE* means for producing up to a gallon of lye suitable for soapmaking. 
What I need to know from the soapmakers reading this is what is the concentration of the lye you use. I am projecting up to 50% possible concentration with this method. Is that enough for your needs?


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## barefootboy

On more additional point , then I'll get off my soap box ( LOL) and back to lab work.
This process does *NOT * require heating at any stage of it. It is simply dissolving two powders in enough water so they can mix and seperate, and then filtering off the liquid. If you use 1 ( oz, cup etc) of each chemical ( lime and carbonate) and 1 ( oz, cup etc ) of water in theory you'll end up with 1 (oz, cup ) of the solid and 2 (ozs, cups ) of the liquid which will be 50% stength lye.
*BUT* as they said in MASH "this is meatball surgery" this is meatball chemistry, so you will not get the exactness you'd get under controled lab or industrial conditions. 
On the other hand, it will work, and has signs of being economical (yield/cost) and *IS* an alternative to getting hassled whenever you want to make a batch of soap.


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## linn

Wow, that is great info., now if your could only figure out the ratio for soap making. I am not a chemist, so have to rely on calculators such as SoapCalc.


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## barefootboy

linn
I've not made soap , so I call upon those with experiance here to advise you. I will be using the chem book guidlines which are on the testing level of 1 oz of lye solution at 50% to 1 gram of fat ( Crisco).
I am trying to make sure that you *DON'T* have to be a chemist to produce this lye. You should *not* need any special equipment or have to do any fancy calculations.
So far, my "three cup" theory ( 1 cup of each chemical to 1 cup water making 2 cups of 50% lye solution) seems to be holding. It should take 1 measuring cup, two glass jars, one plastic funnel, some coffee filters and *rubber gloves*. With glass jars from your recycling or whatever and the other items from a dollar store the "equipment" shouldn't cost more than $10. It is also looking like for 6 lbs of chemicals you will end up with 6 qt. of 50% lye solution.
But I want to test everything totally to be sure of every aspect from cost to result, to *safety.*


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## ||Downhome||

Barefootboy you could always make your own hydrated lime.
Limestone to quick lime to hydrated lime.

and if you can't get the Sodium carbonate you can heat the Sodium Bicarbonate to make it.


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## barefootboy

*Update* Ok, a little slice of humble pie today keeps the ego away..LOL
My "Theory" of 1+1+1=3 for the mix forgot to take into consideration how much water each of these chemicals need to dissolve. Shows you how long i've been away from the lab.
I found that I had to use 2 cups of water to each cup of lime/carbonate ( 4 cups of water). I am filtering the mix now, and it's looking like I'll recover 2 cups of lye solution, so the 50% strength still looks viable. At the max I'll get 2.5 cups of lye solution, so thats still somewhere between 35 to 40%
I'm trying to keep the boring math to a mininmum here, and I know what you want is the end result. But I also want you to get the most out of this for your $.


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## barefootboy

*Thanks downhome.* Yes I was aware of that, but I am trying to keep with the KISS system (Keep it *SAFE *and Simple ) for all the good people out there. But the more ways we can find the less chance of getting the supply of lye cut off by the next move to keep it from being wrongfully used, so everyone, bring your ideas to the table. No one of us is as good as all of us together.


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## ||Downhome||

KISS=Keep It Simple Stupid.At least thats always how I heard it. LOL


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## barefootboy

downhome,
that is the better known version, but I happen to like this one for this purpose as that is the goal...simple and safe


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## lathermaker

OK. If you are doing this as a lab experience hopefully you won't have any problems. What concerns me is that you said you were going to heat up the liquid lye. THAT could cause you problems because, like I said, lye on it's own creates it's own heat. If you are using basically an equal part of oil mixed in with it, that would work....pheww. Sorry to fly off my soap box, but over the years I've seen some down right dangerous things posted on the internet. Go about your business, I'll leave you alone now! ;-)


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## barefootboy

lathermaker,
*NO* offence was taken. Your intent was to protect others and prevent harm. *NO* one can fault you for that.
Also, I see this site as a pool of information from everyone. I am NOT on here as some great expert. LOL Yesterday's goof up proves that. 
There is no question about the chemistry however. It is hard core fact. The fancy term for this is a "double displacement reaction" The Sodium Carbonate swaps with the Calicium Hydroxide ( slaked lime) to create Sodium Hydroxide (lye/liquid) and Calcium Carbonate 
( chalk/powder).
What I am attempting to do is make ther process simple, safe and sure fire, and to have the lye solution be sufficent strength for soap making use. That's where I can use your help. What is the concentration of the lye solution you use in soapmaking?
I am working on the math for the yield per dollar based on $4 for 6lbs of carbonate and $8 for 50 lbs of the lime. Right now it is looking quite inexpensive next to $15 for 2 lbs of solid lye at the hardware stores, not to even mention the main point , that there is NO legal hassles buying a pool chemical ( carbonate) and the lime.
Again thank you for the concern for safety and always feel free to contribute your thoughts and ideas.


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## barefootboy

*TODAY'S UPDATE* I have just created a controlled batch of mix using 1 cup Carbonate in 2 cups of filtered water in 1 cup of hydrated lime in 2 cups of water. It has produced a milkshake looking mix of 4 cups of fluid which will now slowly seperate out to solids and liquid. I did put a small amount in the funnel to filter out. By the end of the day I hope to have an idea of how much lye solution I'll recover from this mix. That in turn should give an idea of strength.


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## barefootboy

*SOAP TEST* While I am waiting for today's batch to seperate, I decided to test the lye solution created yesterday. Using a steam bath for safety, I warmed 1 oz of Crisco in 4oz of yesterday's test batch. At 130 F the lard came apart and began to dissolve. At 145 F the lye solution now had a thin layer on top. After cooling, a sample was taken from the layer by eye dropper and placed in 2 tsp of water. The sample dissolved with no problem and felt soapy to the touch.
I will use the same test with each new batch, but the indications are that the solution has lye in it and will perform its basic function in soap making. I am awaiting some test papers to determine the strength of the solutions.


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## lathermaker

<<<What is the concentration of the lye solution you use in soapmaking?>>>
barefootboy:
normally I use a 38-40% solution. I've tried up to 50% before, (for my own use) but I think that the soap needs a little more water to be sure that everything gets dispersed correctly. But, (as in your experiment) if the 50 % solution is how it starts out...that might work. I'm starting from the dry lye. It depends on the water type how well it dissolves. Undissolved lye is not something desirable.


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## barefootboy

I believe my test solutions to be in the 40-50% range, and possibly quite useable. One more advantage to this process is you don't have to worry about mixing the dry lye pellets. I ended up with 2oz of lye solution from the 4 oz of water used, which should make it around 50%.
Will you consider trying this option to see how it works with a test of your soapmaking? I do need someone who does make soap to tell me how it works for them. How much lye solution do you need for a test batch?
The Carbonate was from Home Depot sold as soda ash for increasing pH in pools $6 lbs for $4. Any garden or hardware store should have some form of hydrated lime.
As for me, I'll take a break until next week when I get some new pH test strips and see how strong the batches are.


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## lathermaker

I'd be happy to test it out for you. Check your PM box!


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## MullersLaneFarm

Off the top of my head, 2 oz of lye with 2 oz of water (50% strength) to 16 oz lard should make a 0% superfatted soap.


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## barefootboy

Mullers
Thanks for the info
I'll have to give that a shot to test the mix.


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## MullersLaneFarm

Actually, it is 2.14 oz of lye (and equal amount of water) for 16 oz lard for a* 5%* superfat


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## barefootboy

*QUICK UPDATE* 
My new test papers arrived and I checked the 32 ozs of mix I created a few days ago. They came in at 13 on the scale.
For those of you unfamiliar with the pH scale it runs 1 to7 for acids with 1 being the strongest then 7 ( neutral) to 14 for bases ( alkali ) such as lye with 14 being the strongest. I estimate that batch as being no less than 50%.
Tomorrow I'll be putting the finishing touches on the procedure and should be posting it here. I will go for 4.5 oz of lye solution at 50% which seems to be an amount and strength commonly used for 16 oz of lard.


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## MullersLaneFarm

I'd error on the side of caution and use 4 oz of the lye solution for the 16 oz of lard. Using 4.5 oz of lye solution will put you toward the lye heavy end of the scale.


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## barefootboy

Mullers'
No problem, as I am not actually making the soap, only using that as a guideline for the lye solution production. That actualy makes it easier. the .5 was a bit of a hassle..lol
So tomorrow my goal will be 4.0 oz of 50% lye solution made from the ordinary chemicals.


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## MullersLaneFarm

Anxiously waiting results!

If I didn't have so much to catch up on after being gone 4 of the past 7 weeks, I'd try this myself!

Anyone want sweet potatoes?? After canning up 2 dozen pints, I've hardly touched the sweet taters my 6 plants gave me.


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## barefootboy

I have made the final test and the method is ready for all you hobby soapmakers having trouble geting regular lye in cans or bags.

First , however the legal mumbo-jumbo LOL

This information is provided for educatinal purposes. Any use of this information is at *YOUR OWN RISK*. While evey attempt has been make to keep this process as *SAFE* as possible, there is always a danger with working with chemicals in general, and lye in particular. I assume NO responsiblity or liablity for your actions.

Ok, I know you all who make soap know what the deal is, so here we go.

*Equipment:*

Rubber/latex gloves!! Before anything else have your gloves on!!

2- 2cup containers. These can be dollar store measuring cups
as no cooking or heating will be involved.

A clear. non metal container that can hold at least 12 oz.

A clear non metal container of at least 8 oz that a funnel can sit on top of . You can use a totally cleaned out plastic 12 oz soda bottle with the lable removed for example.

A funnel at least 4" wide that can sit *SAFELY*on top of the container.

Coffee filters for the funnel.

Plastic spoons or rods for mixing

two 1/2 oz. measuring spoons 

*Chemicals*

Sodium Carbonate sold at Home Depot under the brand name of Pool time as "pH UP" soda ash for increasing Ph. It cost me $4 for 6 lbs. If you have to get it elseware, check the lable. You'll want 100% Sodium Carbonate. If you can't get 100% get what you can and adjust the mix ( If 50% double the Carbonate . You may have to add more water because of that.)

Hydrated Lime. I got this at a local hardware under the Hoffman brand for $10 for 10lbs. If I wanted to wait I could have ordered it through Home Depot for 50 lbs for $8 and gotten purer building lime.

Distilled water prefered, or at least filtered water.

*AND NOW TO THE MAGIC...LOL*

Put 4 oz. of water into each 2 cup measuring cup ( or container)

Slowly add 1/2 oz of the Sodium Carbonate to the water in the first cup and stir. It will clunk up , so you'll need to stir gently but well with each 1/2 oz you add. *NOTE* There will be some very minor but noticable heat given off. This is normal. ( if you work with lye pellets, you know of such heat, but this is way less.) Add 1/2 oz to the water until you reach 2 ozs. Stir until the mix is clear. There may be a tiny amount that will not mix. This is NOT a problem.

Slowly add 1/2 oz of lime to the water of the second cup, stirring with each 1/2 added to mix as much as possible. Continue until you reach 2 oz. The mix will look like a grey white milk shake and there will be some gritty
residue especialy if you use garden lime. This also is not a problem.

Carefully pour the first cup with the 4 oz of clear liquid into the first large container, leaving any non liquid behind. 

Now pour the second cup carefully into the first large container.
The mix will now become an even thicker gray white mix. Allow to seperate into a clear liquid and a white/grey solid. This can take 2 hours or more. General rule, if you can let it sit for 24 hrs, do so.

Set up your funel with filter on top of you second container. 
*MAKE SURE THE FUNNEL SITS SECURELY ON THE CONTAINER*

When the mix has settled, carefully pour off the clear liquid into the funnel.
The first 3 to 3 1/2 ozs should filter off rather easily, the last 1/2 oz will take a bit longer. You can either let the mix sit and seperate over time, or put the white semi-solid in the filter and let sit until as much of the liquid as possible filters out.

What will be left on the filter paper will be Calcium Carbonate
(raw chalk) with lye residue. Dispose of this *very carefully*.

You should now have 4 oz more or less of at least 50% lye solution , which I am told is what you need for you soapmaking. The 4 oz batch I made yesterday tested out on the pH scale at 13, the same as the batches before.

I will try a "Crisco" test with this batch to "make soap", but if someone does this as their hobby and does use a batch of the mix , I'd like to hear how it goes. 

There you have it hobbists. No more ID's No more hassles. All the lye solution you need and the cost is mere pennies.

*FINAL NOTE* Please excuse any speling errors. I am a disabled vet and my hands have problems with typing. I try to go over each entry and edit them for my errors, but some do creep in. 

Do , however, ask me if anything in this method is confusing or unclear.

Happy soapmaking , all


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## lathermaker

Barefootboy; do you have the WEIGHT of the ingredients written down somewhere that you could tell me ?. When I make soap, I weigh everything up on a digital scale for accuracy.
I'm going to go down to Lowe's today and pick up the ingredients to try this! 
Thanks for going to all the work to figure this out!


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## barefootboy

Lathermaker,
As listed above 2 oz of Soda ash ( Sodium Carbonate) to 4 oz of water and 2 oz of hydrated lime to 4 oz of water = 4 oz more or less of 50% lye solution

I will be awaiting your results.


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## lathermaker

OK. I'll give it a try as soon as I can locate the ingredients. The way I read it, you were using 1/2 oz. measuring spoons, not a scale.


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## barefootboy

Yes I did use the spoons to keep it as simple and inexpensive as possilbe. The "equipment" shouldn't cost more than $10 at a dollar store. 
Also, the idea of this came from a "survival" situation storyline I was working on so the conditons had to be as basic as possible, such as spoons and no scales. My goal was how to come up with soap making on a scale greater than what you could get with just wood ash lye production. When I found how difficult it was getting for hobbists to get lye, I thought I'd get a "three'fer" out of testing the idea. One would be giving hobbists a safe, economical alternative to getting lye, two, to prove that the idea worked , and three to have practiced the idea and know it works just in case the "day" ever comes.
(A little side note here. I dislike stories where the author has not checked their facts. If I have a character doing something, I want to know it is reasonably do able.)


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## Whisperwindkat

Ok, I have a question. I keep plugging the 50 % lye solution into the soap calc calculator and trying different oils. The recipe at the end shows that whatever I use I come up with a soap that would make a good laundry soap, but not a good bath soap. Even calculating with a 5% superfat I come up with something that looks like it will pull oils (drying to skin). Also, when I plug in the numbers it usually gives me more than 4 oz. of the lye solution. One calculation was 4.2 oz. and another was 4.5 oz. Would cutting this solution with distilled water to the extra oz. reduction the lye concentration and would it be usable for saponification at that point. For instance, if I took the 4 oz. of the 50% solution and added .5 oz. of distilled water would I be able to get the oils to saponify and would I have a lower solution of lye at that point that might lend to a more conditioning soap? Thanks, Kat


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## barefootboy

whisperwindkat
Yes, once you have made your batch of 4 oz, you can cut it with as much water needed to lower it. An equal amount of water would give you somewhere near 25% lye strength in 8 oz of water. YOU CAN ALSO DOUBLE THE AMOUNT OF WATER YOU USE IN THE MIXING STAGE TO 2 OZ OF CHEMICAL TO 6 OR 8 OZ OF WATER.This way at the end you'll have more mix with less concentration.
Remember , this is "meatball" chemistry, so the % is a fair guesstimate, but the strength is verifed by the pH test. Ever batch has shown it to be 13 on the scale, one step from the top level. if there is any doubt , lean towards putting more water into it. Try 1 oz of the batch to 3 of water. That should drop it down.
As I have NOT made soap, and don't have a calculator, I need you and others to tell me what you need to work with. But when in doubt, carefully water the batch down.
*VERY IMPORTANT WHEN WATERING THE BATCH DOWN, SLOWLY ADD THE BATCH TO THE WATER, NOT WATER INTO THE BATCH, TO AVOID ANY POSSIBLE SPLASHING OR ERUPTION.*


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## lathermaker

If you want a more conditioning soap, up the super fat level to something around 7 or 8%. The amount of mildness of the soap depends on several factors.

Type of oil~ each oil has different properties. Some are more conditioning, cleansing or make a harder bar. Research the oil properties to start with.

Amount of superfat (aka: lye discount) 5% is usually the starting point, go up from there.

If you dilute the lye batch out too far, yet use up that entire amount, you'll end up with soft soap that takes a long time to harden up.


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## Whisperwindkat

Thanks both of you. That helped tremendously. Blessings, Kat


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## Whisperwindkat

Oh, and lathermaker ...I always weigh my oils and such but since the lye is already in a liquid measure should my fats also be in liquid measure instead of weight measure. Thanks, Kat


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## lathermaker

Whisperkat: Since you are using a lye calc, adjust your OILS up or down to use the 4 oz. of lye. The calc is figuring according to what lye concentration you will be using. In this case, we are guessing it's 50%. The calc should have a spot where you input this information for liquid Lye concentration. Everything should be weighed.

I need to try this stuff out for myself before dispensing anymore information. I'm just telling you what I know about soapmaking basics in general using commercially made ingredients. We don't know if this stuff will really work or not yet. I went looking for the ingredients yesterday, but can't find the _*pH UP*_ anymore. It's the end of the swimming pool season here, so there's none to be found.


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## barefootboy

lathermaker
I agree it is necessary to make a batch and try it out before we can advise any further.
As to the lack of pool chemical, you can look for washing soda in some stores. It's not easy to find but it is out there. Or, as it has been suggested, heat regular baking soda (NOT baking powder) then use it as the soda ash. I'm not sure how long to heat it, as I have not tried that method, but chemically it's correct.
I will try a baking soda mix if I get a chance to see if that is a good option.


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## barefootboy

*UPDATE*
Between all the other chores and working on the waterglass experiment, I haven't gotten around to the lye/lard soapmaking test yet. But all other tests still confirm the lye solution to be 13 on the scale, and probably in the 50% range for lye. More later.


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## barefootboy

*UPDATE* Due to the disruption in normal routine caused by Sandy's visit (lol) I have not been able to try the Baking soda / lime alternate lye experiment. As soon as I reasonably can I will do the same as I did before but this time with common baking soda and lime and check the results. We dodged the bullet here as Sandy was farther south and west. If you are interested in how that went , see my log/journal thread in the Prepping section.


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## MullersLaneFarm

BFB ... got a direct link to your log/journal in the S&EP forum??

Is it in the general Oct prep journal & to-do list, or do you have a separate thread??


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## lathermaker

barefootboy said:


> lathermaker
> I agree it is necessary to make a batch and try it out before we can advise any further.
> As to the lack of pool chemical, you can look for washing soda in some stores. It's not easy to find but it is out there. Or, as it has been suggested, heat regular baking soda (NOT baking powder) then use it as the soda ash. I'm not sure how long to heat it, as I have not tried that method, but chemically it's correct.
> I will try a baking soda mix if I get a chance to see if that is a good option.


So, you are saying that I can use the regular Arm & Hammer WASHING Soda? If so, I have a bunch of that stuff already on hand.


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## barefootboy

*Mullers* It is a seperate thread entiled I am going to keep a log
*Lathermaker* Yes, the arm and hammer washing soda IS the Sodium Carbonate and can be combined with the lime as i have indicated. Because it's hard to find, I have looked for alternatives for those out there. The pool chemical is one. Baking soda is a "cousin" to the washing soda. I believe it can be used, but i'll need to test it first.
If you try this method, I will be interestedin your results.


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## Whisperwindkat

Lathermaker-Did you ever try this and if so what were your results. Anxiously awaiting since as a newbie soaper I am a little scared to try it myself. Thanks, Kat


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## lathermaker

Barefoot boy; now that Christmas is over I can try this out. The problem I'm having right now is finding Lime. Any idea's on that one?


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## cybercat

Ask at a gardening center. Lime is used in gardens to raise PH.


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## tentance

so....did anyone successfully make soap with this method? i was able to get sodium hydroxide at lowes recently, and it was 15 USD for 2 lbs. that makes a lot of soap, but i would be willing to spend the time on this if it is cheaper even if it does take longer. it's not exactly constant work, it would be just be adding one more step in the soap process. plus you could do some and come back and exposure to air overnight won't hurt the chemicals. i bet that calcium precipitate would be good for the sandy garden here.


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## engblom

Anyone could make successfully a soap from this. However, just Cold Processing is not fitting for this kind of lye solution as you can not meassure the lye concentration accurate enough. You have to take into use the method used in past. Still today this method is in use for making commercial soap.

For this kind of lye solution you need to make a very rough estimate of the amount of lye and then provide some excess of lye. You can then either do a fully boiled soap, as they did in the past (which takes a lot of work to stir), or make a temporary CP soap.

I recommend to make a temporary CP soap. So, do a lye heavy CP soap! Put the soap into oven to gel.

Once it has been fully gelling, put it into a kettle with a lot of warm water. Let the soap fully dissolve. You will have just soapy water now diluting the excess lye. This water you saturate with salt. The soap will separate out of the water and float up to the surface. Once this has been setting for some time, strain the crude soap you have and throw away the brine which now also contain most of the excess of lye we had.

Repeat this salting out until you have done it trice. Alway add fresh water to the soap and once it is fully dissolved add the salt. After the third time you have washed away all the excess lye. Very gently rinse the soap inside of a strainer to get some of the salt away. Don't over-do or you will rinse away the real soap.

Leave the soap in a strainer and let the brine drip off. Put the soap into a textile bag and centrifuge the bag with highest speed in a laundry machine to get the rest of the brine out. Now you have a soap mass you can press to soaps. I did it in a PVC-pipe with wooden pistons inside of plastic bags.

Now you have a nice soap with no excess lye anymore.

EDIT: I attached a picture of some soap I made with this salting out method


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## MullersLaneFarm

Nice.


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## tentance

​From: A Treatise on Chemistry Applied to the Manufacture of Soap and Candles: Being a Thorough Exposition, in All Their Minutiae, of the Principles and Practice of the Trade, Based Upon the Most Recent Discoveries in Science and Art, 1856.

soda ash is now commonly called washing soda.


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## PlicketyCat

barefootboy said:


> *Mullers* It is a seperate thread entiled I am going to keep a log
> *Lathermaker* Yes, the arm and hammer washing soda IS the Sodium Carbonate and can be combined with the lime as i have indicated. Because it's hard to find, I have looked for alternatives for those out there. The pool chemical is one. Baking soda is a "cousin" to the washing soda. I believe it can be used, but i'll need to test it first.
> If you try this method, I will be interestedin your results.


Yes - baking soda (sodium *bi*carbonate) can be baked in the oven at 200F for about an hour which will break the carbon bond and drive off carbon dioxide gas & water, leaving dry washing soda/soda ash (sodium carbonate). Unfortunately, naturally occuring sodium carbonate is really only found in arid regions and the bottom of dry lake beds.

Also, for those hardcore DIY folks who want to make it without the grocery store... 

You can grind limestone or seashells (calcium carbonate) and then heat it in a kiln/bonfire (1200F) until it calcinates and forms quicklime (calcium oxide), then soak the quicklime in water to create slaked lime (calcium hydroxide). 

You can also burn kelp/seaweed to create soda ash (sodium carbonate) instead of heating baking soda. Soak your soda ash with water and filter to leach out the carbonates, and mix that solution with our calcium hydroxide water solution to form Sodium Hydroxide (and dry calcium carbonate again). 

Or burn wood to create potash (potassium carbonate) and a small amount of soda ash (sodium carbonate). Soak the ashes with water and filter to leach out the carbonates, and mix that solution with your calcium hydroxide water solution to form Potassium Hydroxide (and dry calcium carbonate again).

Either Sodium Hydroxide or Potassium Hydroxide can be used to make soap. You can even make soap with just calcium hydroxide, but it takes a lot of lime since it's not very soluble. OR you can skip the whole calcium/lime component altogether and just use the highly soluble sodium/potassium carbonates in water solution. All the calcium really does is make it a stronger and more stable base.


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## tentance

I have bought lime and washing soda, but have run into a technique problem. When I mix the washing soda with water, it absorbs the water quickly and turns into a block of concrete in the bottom of my jar. the lime behaves, in comparison. Am i misunderstanding how much water needs to be added to dissolve the washing soda properly? Maybe i used only half what the recipe needs, and need to double it...?
Will try again soon with the next disposable container i get. had to toss the jar i was using.
also bought 95% hydrated lime from sears.com(4 lbs for $13 USD free shipping), but found 90% hydrated lime at rural king (50 lbs for $4 USD local store). the difference in percentage might make it much more impure, maybe only good for laundry. but if i can get this method working, it still cussing cheap!
i might have to try the seashell method if the end of the world does come about. no shortage of those around here.


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## Pygan

I see this conversation thread has had no activity for awhile but I figured I'd add a few things about this method that might be helpful in having success with it. This reaction works best when the solution is dilute. So it's best to use water in excess. Also, the the reaction progresses much quicker with boiling. Try to maintain a constant water level during the process and boil the two chemicals together for a good hour. After filtering this can be tested for purity by adding a small amount of the filtrate to a dilute solution of Muratic/Hydrochloric Acid. If you get a lot of bubbles and fizzing then it still has a lot of sodium carbonate that has not converted to lye. Add more lime to it and continue to boil to increase purity of the lye solution. It can be concentrated by boiling after filtering and evaporated to obtain the solid sodium hydroxide crystals if desired. Hope that information was helpful.


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## Surprise

@barefootboy, Everyone:
Thank you so very much for coming up with all this information in this thread. It could not have come at a better time!

Your discovery is meaningful on many levels.



barefootboy said:


> Due to the restrictions being placed on


There are far more valid reasons for the method you guys presented here; the TOXICITY of commercial lye is atrocious to say the least. It is the ultimate reason for avoiding commercial lye if you ask me.

As a cancer survivor of melanoma, I made countless attempts at finding non-toxic hygiene products, be it a soap, a toothpaste or anything. What a disappointment this was! In the end, I resorted to making my own cosmetics.
1. SHAMPOOS contain an unbelievable amount of toxic chemicals, one of the most prevalent ones being sodium laureth sulfate (SLES). It is toxic, but good luck finding a shampoo without it. Solution: Make your own shampoo.
2. Virtually all TOOTHPASTE contains fluoride, which is a known carcinogen that is also responsible for testosterone reduction and fluorosis, and osteoporosis, and countless other health issues in our modern society. While you can admittedly find a toothpaste without fluoride when you put your mind to it, there is not one toothpaste without **glycerin**, which has no place in a toothpaste unless you have no teeth. Glycerin blocks the natural remineralization of enamel, sending the victim/user to the dentist with cavities sooner rather than later. (My preliminary solution: I'm using mined baking soda, which is also aluminum-free: Bob's Red Mill from iHerb, decent shipping)
3. most commercial soaps contain EDTA, which is a broad-spectrum, toxic chelator that causes skin aging and de-mineralization. While you can find a soap without it, there is not a soap that hasn't been in contact with commercial lye. Why is that a problem? Because none of the soap makers I asked was able to provide an analysis certificate for the lye they were using. They are all using DRAIN CLEANER-quality lye, full of toxic metals. Their argument? "There is no lye in the final product". Really? How about the heavy metals that the commercial lye is contaminated with? While the lye saponifies, the toxic metals—cadmium, mercury, lead, antimony, barium, and aluminum particles that were present in the commercial lye—do NOT disappear. They end up absorbed by the skin of the victim that washes themselves with it.

This is my rationale for making my own lye the way the Creator of the Universe had intended, by using rock (limestone -> quick lime -> hydrated lime [plus] washing soda). 

Thank you so much, all of you, for spending time on it. As you can see, it's not just about the $$ value, it's about the incredible health value of your idea.
(I did run into some technical hiccups, will report in a separate post. This is just to say THANK YOU to all of you!!!)

Thank you!!!


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## Surprise

tentance said:


> I have bought lime and washing soda, but have run into a technique problem. When I mix the washing soda with water, it absorbs the water quickly and turns into a block of concrete in the bottom of my jar.


I used to run across this problem when using it to wash laundry in the washer in place of washing powder; turns out the washing soda I had was only 30% sodium carbonate with no mention of the main chemical(s), "trade secret" I guess. It consisted of almost translucent crystals and refused to dissolve. Is that what you have? 
I ditched that one and purchased another that says something to the effect of "100% washing soda". This one is a white powder, dissolves without issues and does give off some heat as described by Barefootboy. So far so good.

Getting my hands on hydrated lime was a lot more difficult. Salespeople looked at me like I was crazy; it was too cheap to bother ordering one of these. In desperation, I tried to make the lye using *lime putty* instead of hydrated lime... that gave me a solution of about 5% of lye (enough to remove paint off of a wooden door, but not enough to make soap with). I am ready to revisit that option, however, since now that I was able to finally get my hands on genuine, *hydrated lime from a mined source *(turns out they can manufacture this stuff using drain-cleaner quality lye, the very thing I am trying to avoid), my "soap" making produced something akin to soap flakes in immersed in sunflower oil (see picture).

Sunflower oil may not be the most suitable oil for a soap experiment, but that's all I had... Any ideas?


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## Surprise

It worked!!! It finally worked! A stick blender saved the day. It WORKED!

The soap is... yummy... I've never seen anything like it. Everyone who tried it loves it! It has such an incredible quality to it... Simply amazing. Thanks to all of you...!


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## Master of none.

Whisperwindkat said:


> Thanks so much for this. How would you use this lye since it is a liquid in a soap recipe. Would you dilute it just like you would the lye powder? And would you weigh it the same? Also, how do you store it? Thanks, Kat


Hi Kat. The lye is the liquid at the end of the process above. The solid is calcium carbonate (chalk) and so can be discarded for the soap making project. Good luck!


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## Danaus29

Master of none. said:


> Hi Kat. The lye is the liquid at the end of the process above. The solid is calcium carbonate (chalk) and so can be discarded for the soap making project. Good luck!


She hasn't been here in over 4 years. By now she either has it figured out or has given up.


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