# Walking MPH?



## Kathyhere (Sep 27, 2009)

In a worse case scenario when the SHTF and within a short time period the gas pumps close down and we are no longer able to buy fuel.

I have a daughter who is attending university in a city an hour and a half drive (95 miles) from home. If things were so bad that our ability to get fuel was not probable and she become stranded, I (me or my husband or both, depends) would be willing to walk there, if that's what it took to bring her back home. 

So do some of you have experience in hiking agross country? I was wondering if somebody actually knew the amount of time it would take to walk that far? I know there are many things to take into consideration from terrain to time of year and of course what kind of shape and the age (to a degree) of the person.

But I would just like to hear even rough ideas of how long this might take, as I would just like to be realistic in my thinking about what it would take to accomplish this.


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## chickenista (Mar 24, 2007)

You have to figure many things...
Are you used to walking 20 miles a day across country?
Do you have shoes ready and broken in for walking that far?
Can you handle the long distance walking injuries that you would receive?
Are you prepared to carry all food and water for both trips..with an extra person on the return??
Is your daughter used to walking 20 miles+ a day..does she have the shoes etc...
There is a reason that in the olden days folks that moved a hundred miles from home might not EVER see home or family again.

But I think that 3 mph is the average, though your mileage may vary...take into consideration having to stop for the night well before dark etc... to make camp. You would need a fire to boil the next day's water etc...


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## davel745 (Feb 2, 2009)

For a long hike I would plan on 2.5 MPH


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## timfromohio (Jun 19, 2007)

Many factors to consider here - what kind of shape you are in, if you can travel during the day, terrain, how much you are packing, ....

I used to do a fair bit of backpacking in the mountains of NC when I lived down there. While carrying a 50 pound pack I could easily manage 10-12 miles in a day, but this was stopping for lunch, stopping to observe the views, and getting to a site to camp for the night allowing enough time to set up, get water, and explore the surrounding area in daylight. Carrying very little and employing a jog/walk method somebody in good shape could cover much more ground in a day.

I would think the best case would be perhaps 20 miles in a day if you pack light, are not hindered by terrain, weather, zombies, and traveled only by day. 

If you were in great shape you might be able to do more, but it would not be a sustainable pace. There are ultra-marathoners who do "century" runs (100 miles) using a run/walk method without stopping (unless for bathroom, hydrate, etc.) in a 24 hour period, but those folks are toast after such a race and need an extensive recovery period. 

My advice - make sure you daughter has a good mountain/hybrid bike, a light bug out bag, and maps with multiple routes home.


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## Ernie (Jul 22, 2007)

4 mph on a road is considered really good. But if she follows the road then she'll get in trouble. All lines of communication (roads, railroads, rivers, etc.) are to be avoided if possible and only crossed with caution. There's also the consideration of how much hiding she'll have to do.

95 miles could take up to 3 months if I were to have to do it.


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## tkrabec (Mar 12, 2003)

I would say bikes would be the best bet. Since many Universities have places you can store bikes. Also it would be far faster to ride from your place to get her, then ride back. Much less food & water would be required.


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## NickieL (Jun 15, 2007)

with a light load and a flat path....3-4 mph.

with a heavy load, hilly 2 mph

going cross country with a lot of obsticals or no trail/ swamp, tall grass. trees to climb over/ rivers to cross etc likely around 2.5 with a lighter load plus lots of stops for orientation


but that's based on how I do.


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## Kathyhere (Sep 27, 2009)

> All lines of communication (roads, railroads, rivers, etc.) are to be avoided if possible and only crossed with caution


.

Yea Erin that 's what I was thinking too. My daughter is 22 yo and very attractive and not an athletic type, there is no way I would want her to start out on that journey. No, someone would have to go get her. My husband is a woodsman and knows how to move through a wooded areas and go around natural barrier. So he would have to go. I guess a trip like that would take weeks, if not months. But you do what you have to do. It would be a horrible wait for them to return.


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## NickieL (Jun 15, 2007)

I can do 40 miles in a weekend with a load....I would say to get there a week.


And I am speaking from expirience....it took me five months to hike from Mexico to Canada with a day off about once a week from walking to resupply and that was 2,600 miles. So it will not take weeks and months just for 95 miles.


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## Mike in Ohio (Oct 29, 2002)

Your major concern seems to be availability of gas. If that is the case then keep a few 5 gallon cans (whatever you would need to go roundtrip plus some extra) and have a bike rack that can hold a couple bikes so that if you have to abandon your vehicle you can still move faster than walking.

Be prepared to leave immediately to pick up your daughter when you think the SHTF is starting to happen. Have a plan that you have worked out with her.

It appears to me that you are planning for the worst case scenario and not thinking about ways to avoid the worst case scenario as you describe it.

Mike


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## tinknal (May 21, 2004)

I think the best bet would be to keep enough gas on hand to go get her. In most scenarios things are not going to go down hill so fast with no warning that you couldn't drive to get her. Might be good to set up a meeting point outside the city right now in case communications are cut off.


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## Explorer (Dec 2, 2003)

Go out and walk a couple of miles as fast as you can. If your not, get in walking shape (strong legs). Cut that speed in half, multiply by 8 and that is how far you can walk a day with maybe a light load. You do need to stop to rest, eat and sleep.


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## Kathyhere (Sep 27, 2009)

Yes I'm thinking of a worse case scenario. Our top concern would be to get/have the gas to go, if possibile. But we just don't know what lies ahead and I want to have considered all possiblities. So I want to have it thought out what we would do under the circumstances that we can not get gas.


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## Ernie (Jul 22, 2007)

Another option would be to see if anyone survival minded who can be trusted lives somewhere near her now and a plan could be put in place for her to shelter with them until either an emergency passes or until you can arrive to get her.

In a prolonged emergency, it might be two years before you managed to see her again, but knowing she's sheltering with and helping a family of trusted friends would sure beat wondering if her bleached bones were in a ditch somewhere.


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## NewGround (Dec 19, 2010)

I just started walking to work this week so this is from a guy who used to be in the field and now an office guy for several years and 30 lbs that had been trailing him has caught up, LOL... I have some moderately hilly terrain to cross on my 2 miles one way journey and I am doing about 3 mph consistently, even in this heat... Longer journeys would likely drop to about 2mph... At least until I build up more stamina... But with 30 extra lbs and past the double nickel it's not too bad... 

Plotting different routes home is critical now! Your attractive daughter may well have a "friend" when/if the SHTF and communication would be key... If no communication (EMP etc.) would "they" start for home, assuming that their current location is hostile. What if she has to bug out of university? 

Nothing like some good old fashioned planning about what to do scenarios... Any possibility of preplanning some "stash" locations along the best route home? A rental storage place could be used to stockpile supplies... Also perhaps some family orienteering outings would be a good thing... If one follows the roads that's dangerous, but without advance planning that would be what "they" would do... Since she is in university I am assuming she has taken on the anti-gun bias... Stealth then becomes the only other choice... Note even with a weapon stealth is still the 1st choice but when trapped an "equalizer" is nice to have...

You and she will likely have fuel in the beginning and 95 miles is not that far so early action would be key... The sheeple turned zombies will at first be unorganized... Eventually expect zombie roadblocks etc. to cannibalize possessions and take what they want... God Bless you and your family and may He keep you all safe...


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## Wisconsin Ann (Feb 27, 2007)

95 miles would have taken me 7 days when I was into the whole hiking backpacking thing. While training cross country horses (you jog along with them, up and down mild hills, for miles a day) probably 5-6 days. 

It's easier for me to just trudge along without thinking for long distances. Steady pace for long hours is easier to keep up for days than faster with breaks. (the breaks start being longer and longer)

The idea of finding her a place that's close to her Uni is excellent. Avoid moving in a panic. bugging IN is preferable to bugging OUT. (obviously sometimes you need to leave an area)

As to the whole "keep a gas can filled" is good advice if you are stuck with gasoline powered vehicles. I know I harp on this a LOT...but an old diesel car, truck, even a tractor would be a better bet. Diesels can run on waste MOTOR OIL..you know..that stuff you drain out when you change oil? yes..it's true. 

hmmm.....a tractor would be a great way to go get someone in an emergency. You'd need to carry your fuel, of course, but a front end loader with a weight on the back end (maybe a "box" attached to the 3pt filled with supplies) could get you offroad if necessary. AND be useful at clearing out debris if it's a storm or bombing situation. 

Sure, they're slow, and you'd be advertising your presence...but I could see that working if you weren't in a "badguys are roaming the roads" scenario.


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## beachcomber (Dec 2, 2008)

if theres no gas to be had,the roads will be littered with parked cars and having a few gas cans full of gas for your car will be useless.walking 95 miles at this point i would not want to think about


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## ghmerrill (Feb 22, 2011)

Newground,

You probably hit it on the head. Tell the average college student today that you are going to sit down and prepare a plan in case shtf, and they are going to look at you like you just sprouted 3 extra eyes and tentacles! 

Best plan is to keep some spare fuel on hand, and if things start going sideways, make her stay home. It's unlikely that things are going to go from "normal" to "mad max" in less time than you can drive that 1.5 hours.


Sure is a wake up call though.... A trip "to town" for many of us rural folk would become quite a rarity, given distance.


Nikie, you could have waved as you walked by our place here in southern oregon 
I'm assuming you did the pacific crest trail, and not hiking interstate 5! At least, when most people talk about hiking from canada to mexico, it's the PCT.


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## Pelenaka (Jul 27, 2007)

I would stash a cache every so many miles with supplies on your most likely route. 

Provided that security was good on those cache then hopefully you would have to carry as much supplies.

Bikes are a good idea. Choose one that is light weight & that you can camoflage no chrome. Don't forget to attact a bike pump, flash light, and bungee cords. Have a comoflage tarp to throw over your bike and yourself - tent. Rope so you can string up your bike in a tree when you need to park it.

If the plan is for someone to get her then she will need to have enough supplies & a really great spot to bug in until that person shows up. There needs to be a method of communication to let that person know if she's had to change location or was caught (put on the bus and relocated). 
Consider a meetup location outside the campus because you as a parent hiking in will attract attention. 

You also need to factor in that she might have a friend or two with her bugging in. I know that allot of us say that we will not but when it hits the fan ideas can go out the window. Just saying perhaps plan on extra supplies as you might end up having a group.

As to storing extra gas & driving there ... well going in I think will be easier than going out. 

Speaking of bikes and walking I need to go bike out of the city my nearest County Max store because seed packets are on sale for 15Â¢ each. Last year I bought them for 10Â¢.
Must be inflation huh ? 


~~ pelenaka ~~
http://thirtyfivebyninety.blogspot.com/


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## cnichols (Jan 5, 2010)

As wierd as this may sound, she also needs a disguise. Some smudge on the face, plain clothing that doesn't attract attention, etc. If possible, she needs to have a friend who can "hike" with her to your place, if necessary, it would help avoid the possibility of something bad happening to whomever has to go get her.


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## FourDeuce (Jun 27, 2002)

NickieL said:


> I can do 40 miles in a weekend with a load....I would say to get there a week.
> 
> 
> And I am speaking from expirience....it took me five months to hike from Mexico to Canada with a day off about once a week from walking to resupply and that was 2,600 miles. So it will not take weeks and months just for 95 miles.


Of course, that was also without having to worry(too much) about somebody messing with you. Walking 95 miles under extremely bad circumstances could take even longer than your trip did, or could even end up being impossible. When law & order break down, it makes it hard to make plans.


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## Cyngbaeld (May 20, 2004)

Mostly rolling hills thru there. Walking shouldn't be too bad. There are plenty of backroads you might explore when you are coming and going in the car too.

I would certainly try to find some homes in between Hattiesburg and the gulf (Pascagoula?) where she could rest on the trip. There are probably HT members and probably friends of DD's that could help out. All my family is further north, so that wouldn't help. LOL 

IMHO, it would be best if you could find families of other students that are local to you that you could team up with to get the young people home. Maybe start making friends now, but you don't necessarily need to mention that you are afraid of having to walk up there and back, just get a network going.


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## calliemoonbeam (Aug 7, 2007)

I can't add more about the actual walking part, people have covered that pretty well. But I think Cnichols brought up some good points. If she's a very attractive girl, then some disguise is definitely in order. Loose, scruffy clothing, some type of loose jacket to disguise her, um, endowments, lol, hair up under a hat, maybe some horn-rimmed glasses, and definitely no makeup or jewelry. No name brand designer anything. No perfume. 

Just basically nothing to attract any attention to her at all, just like no one would look twice at a street person they pass. To go out dressed in her usual attire, if she's attractive, is just asking for trouble. Just my two cents.


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## hsmom2four (Oct 13, 2008)

Mike in Ohio said:


> Your major concern seems to be availability of gas. If that is the case then keep a few 5 gallon cans (whatever you would need to go roundtrip plus some extra) and have a bike rack that can hold a couple bikes so that if you have to abandon your vehicle you can still move faster than walking.
> 
> Be prepared to leave immediately to pick up your daughter when you think the SHTF is starting to happen. Have a plan that you have worked out with her.
> 
> ...


I agree with Mike. My daughter goes to college 3.5 hours away from home. I can't even pretend to think that walking up to get her then walking back home is even an option. If it became clear to me that gas would be cut off real soon then I would tell her to get home ASAP. She's pretty good about refilling her gas tank when its half full. She can make it home on about half a tank. 

Send her supplies to shelter in place if you can't get to her. I got one of those buckets with the freeze dried meals. She can keep it in her room and no one needs to know about it (her boyfriend already knows). I also tell her to keep at least one full case of water bottles at all times. When she opens her last case of water then she needs to get to the store and buy another one that same day. I want to get her a Burkey sport before she goes back next month.


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## radiofish (Mar 30, 2007)

Lots of ideas here - not to stand out as a 'target', actually have her and yourself go for a several mile walk with an approximate load of the gear you would have, and see what the distance covered is under ideal conditions! Have supplies stashed along the way if possible, because the sheeple will have picked clean any places before you get there, etc.. 

I would say under the OP's scenario averaging 2 to 3 miles per hour on relatively flat land, if there are natural obstacles such as rivers, hills/ mountains/ large population centers - then it will much slower.

Yeah, I did faster and further marches with more gear when I was in the Marine Corps, but I was young and foolish and in training for that then.

But what if she is at class when something happens? I ask since I was at going to classes at Humboldt State University when 9/11 happened, and many of the youngsters were at class dressed in shorts - t shirt - and wearing flip flops for foot gear. They would have been toast in an emergency, if they would have had to evacuate the campus for any distance. They had no extra munchies, water, maps, or any kind of survival gear in their backpacks/ book bags. Of course their vehicles had little fuel in the tank, since they seemed to live for the moment, and never planned ahead.

We were sent home that morning, and luckily I had my small ham radio handi-talkie with expanded receive, so I was able to supply folks in the building with more information than was supplied by the University official sources. But I did not bring home a bunch of clueless youngsters with me that day. I might have, if things had been much worse here on the West Coast.


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## MoonRiver (Sep 2, 2007)

I think people tend to overestimate how fast they walk. The fastest I can walk at the gym is 3 mph and I pass everyone else that is walking. Walking across fields, up and down hills, over and under fences, moving away from people and houses, I think I would probably only average about 2 mph.

And you most likely wouldn't be walking a straight line, so that 95 miles could easily be 110 or more. Plus you need to carry enough food and water, bedroll, gun and ammo, etc. for a week, assuming you can replenish your supplies when you get to your daughter. 

I would be looking for another option. Maybe make sure she has a good all terrain bike.


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## Ernie (Jul 22, 2007)

When I was training in Spokane, I was always amazed at how long it took to travel in the mountains. As a small town flatlander from Texas, I had no concept of it. I'd been going afoot over long distances for almost all of my life by that point, most of it cross country, and I thought I could really gauge it.

Oh how wrong I was. One of the old timers there finally pulled me aside and pointed out that while I thought I was walking 2 miles on the map, the up and down and up and down of it turned out to be a lot further.


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## Bluesgal (Jun 17, 2011)

Have you practiced any of the "plan"? would she listen to you if you told her to go to a meeting point? Do you have a meeting point? a plan "b"? I've found in times of stress you can only rely upon "practiced" actions. People panic easily in a bad situation... Maybe a month into the new school here have a drill and see what happens.. you can make corrections from what you learn from the "drill". Good Luck,


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## Callieslamb (Feb 27, 2007)

Sorry Kathyhere - I can't answer your questions about distance walking but I will try to add to the discussion. I wish my kids were ONLY 100 miles away. None of mine live closer than 7 hours driving. How to get them home (there are five of them) has always been a major concern. 

We provided each of our kids with funds and a heavily loaded back pack. If they own a home, they are asked to keep at least 25 gallons of gas on hand. Others are just to keep the cash available. their packs are filled with enough supplies for 2 people to live for a month- minus the water. They will be very thin if they take that month to get home. We have discussed what they need to do. We have instructed each of them to find a path that will get them here most efficiently. We will help them know when they need to come home. However, it is our reality to know that they all will probably NOT make it this far. Some will be better off with other family members, others with friends. Some will be able to pool their resources with others and make their way. Our girls are all married now so they have the protection they would need on a journey of this kind. All of our SILs have been asked to learn to handle a weapon of some kind. We keep supplies here that we could make a journey and meet them half-way if needed.

We have done all we can do. They are in the Lord's hands. 

And if it helps, we know a motivated young man that rode his bicycle 45 miles both directions in one day, for a date. I am not sure I would totally give up on roads but there would certainly be places to avoid.


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## Jolly (Jan 8, 2004)

A few years ago I did a barren ground caribou hunt. There were 24 guys in camp at the time and fitness ranged from very athletic to couch potato.

We hunted with weapons and daypacks. Weather ranged from ok to rain/sleet. For those hunters that really had to walk a bit, 14-15 miles a day seemed to about as much as most people wanted to do.

If things were really, really bad, I'd hate to know I was a single person traveling a week's journey on foot, alone.


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## Parttimefarmer (May 5, 2011)

I can walk 3 mph for hours. I do it on a treadmill (my only tv time) with a variable incline program going up only, no down. I can do 3.5-4 pretty good, but not all day like the 3mph. I am mid 30's and not thin.


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## Ernie (Jul 22, 2007)

Parttimefarmer said:


> I can walk 3 mph for hours. I do it on a treadmill (my only tv time) with a variable incline program going up only, no down. I can do 3.5-4 pretty good, but not all day like the 3mph. I am mid 30's and not thin.


Now do it in culverts and hedgerows, squatting every time a police car or military humvee passes by. And do it on only 500 calories per day. Oh, and do it with your buttocks clenched together to prevent you from crapping in your pants because of the dysentery. Occasionally sprint in mad terror through open fields as you imagine being chased by cannibal biker gangs intent upon raping you for hours before chopping off your legs to roast over an open firepit.

If you take whatever you can do NOW and divide it by half, then you just MIGHT approximate what you'll be able to do in a SHTF situation.


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## Parttimefarmer (May 5, 2011)

Ernie said:


> Now do it in culverts and hedgerows, squatting every time a police car or military humvee passes by. And do it on only 500 calories per day. Oh, and do it with your buttocks clenched together to prevent you from crapping in your pants because of the dysentery. Occasionally sprint in mad terror through open fields as you imagine being chased by cannibal biker gangs intent upon raping you for hours before chopping off your legs to roast over an open firepit.
> 
> If you take whatever you can do NOW and divide it by half, then you just MIGHT approximate what you'll be able to do in a SHTF situation.


I have hiked over long distances (week long with packs) and I have done compass/map though forest hikes. I can do 3. That is best case. If we are talking poo delays, don't discount constipation issues. That can be a real problem long distance hiking


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## Kathyhere (Sep 27, 2009)

Thanks for all the suggestions and advice. This had helped me consider some things. I know it's a very unlikely situation that she would get stranded like that, but just wanted to consider it and prepare if I could. We are not friends with any people in that area, so she would not know anybody to turn to and no family or friends between here and there. That is the reason I was considering the possibility we might have to go get her if worse came to worse. She is a smart girl and would know how to hunker down if need be, until someone could come for her, but as far as her hiking home, no way.

My husband is and avid hunter and outdoors man and he could do it. Not following the roads, but cutting a more straight line through the woods. Might need some undated maps to have the lastest info on rivers and roads. He is a big gruff looking guy, with a serious disposition, knows how to take care of himself in a wilderness situation. I know he is the best chance to make it there and back.

I will admit I have not discussed this possibility with either of them. The thing is I'm the only one that is preparing for a possible SHTF, they just don't believe things will totally fall apart, that's why I prepare and am getting together info we might need. We live on the Gulf coast and do prepare for hurricane season, but I have built the pantry stores and garden and can for long term storage. 

I have 3 grown girls, the other 2 are own there own, one married, one living with a boyfriend further away. Those 2 have someone to take care of them, but the youngest is at the university nearer home and her boyfriend is at another college. She would depend on us and I would do whatever I needed to to get to her. 

Again thanks for the advise.


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## shawnlee (Apr 13, 2010)

Under good conditions and packing supplies 8 to 10 is a good average....you might do more on some days and less on others.

Something I have been checking into and making plans for is a motorized bicycle....80 to 120 mpg depending on conditions and very cheap to put together.

My first bug out location is 270 miles away and the secondary is 1400 miles from here or 1130 from the secondary.....while I could cross the desert to the first location in under a month...the second one is a brutal journey on foot.

At 25 to 30 mph on good level roads, the motorized bicycle is a great alternative. That equated into 12 hours to do the 270 miles and less than 5 gallons of gas.

1130 miles equates into about 7 days and less than 15 gallons of gas...a much more pleasant thougt than walking.You can also get packs for a bicycle or a cart to tow behind it for supplies.


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## NamasteMama (Jul 24, 2009)

My husband and son went on a pioneer trek renactment thing an they only walked 5 miles a day on wagon trails and it was really hard on them. Granted they were pulling handcarts full of gear.

I found it takes me 17 minutes to walk a mile. Even if she walked ten miles a day it would take her almost 10 days to get home and be next to impossible to carry enough food and water.


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## Pelenaka (Jul 27, 2007)

shawnlee said:


> Something I have been checking into and making plans for is a motorized bicycle....80 to 120 mpg depending on conditions and very cheap to put together.


Those are all the rage here in the city. That and those electric scooters & vespa style mopeds. Throw a plastci shower cutrain down on the floor of your apt. and you can a parking space.

One guy who travels around attached one of those bike trailers that holds two children strapped in. So far he's been riding it heavy for a month now. He is a collector of yard sale stuffs,lol.


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## texican (Oct 4, 2003)

If your not use to cross country walking, five miles might be a long way. If your not in shape for walking, then walking ain't going to really be an option. Walking with nothing (gear) and walking with gear are two completely separate scenarios... Hike with nothing, and day two your gonna drag... day three and your going to fail. (Unless you are in excellent health, and know what your doing).

I use to walk for a living... backcountry ranger... was paid to walk. I could walk fast, without a pack, and burn out in three hours, and make 12 miles. I could walk slow, without a pack, and go 20 in a long day... but I couldn't do it the next day (because I'd be exhausted, without refueling my body) I could walk slow with a pack, and do 20 miles cross country, as long as the fuel held up. Flat ground, maybe 30 miles. My record is 37, but I knew I was going to crash and burn the moment I stopped, so I didn't stop till I reached my destination (lost 22lbs the next week, in the crash and burn process).

IF I were hiking home, right now, I could probably hitch a ride easily. Or make the 20 miles a day, every day, till I got home.

IF I were hiking home, after the system had failed, I don't think I'd do the main highways, or even the back roads. And, heading cross country, in populated areas??? Every home or farmstead you come across is a life or death scenario... dogs... irate landowners... opportunistic criminals (which I can imagine there'd be plenty of, once it became obvious Law and Order was gone) willing to get opportunistic on anyone caught out unaware...

I think the cardinal rule of bugging out comes into play here... bug out early or don't bug out at all.

So to go 95 miles, you probably need a minimum of 9 days, 4 and a half to get there, and then back. An expedition weight backpack, crammed full of food. If you don't preposition food stockpiles with your kid, you'd need to tote at least 2 weeks of food (4.5 to get there, and 9 days worth for the return).

Throw in sleeping bag, tent, clothes, and weaponry, and your kissing 80 lbs or so... which would be a missouri mule to tote.

Did I mention bugging out early or not bugging out at all? There's a reason... the alternatives are bad, worse, and not at all.

Good luck prepping for it!


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## elkhound (May 30, 2006)

peddle it on this...

http://cgi.ebay.com/24-ADULT-TRICYC...619?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item5adfac9eab


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## elkhound (May 30, 2006)

if ya dont want to walk.build this from scarap pipe and an old engine.

(caution a few cuss words in video)

nacho libre trike built after the one in nacho libre movie

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E9_Y4Eo_7Dw&feature=related[/ame]

this thing with a honda engine woudl go forever on a gallon of gas.or one of the new small diesel engines...wow...we could do so mcuh in this country if the powers that be and people wake up and stop being whineing about everything be perfect,big,fancy etc.

another these boys built

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0V5nxQkLu8c&feature=related[/ame]


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## wogglebug (May 22, 2004)

The world's very best marathon runners do just less than 8.75mph for 3 hours, then they don't attempt it again for three to six months because it's so hard on the body.

Towns that were settled before motor vehicles tended to be about a maximum of 33-36 miles apart, limited by the transportation of the day. On a horse, you'd make it that far in a day without being too hard on the horse. Alternatively, local farmers furthest out could get into their closest town and return in a day by horse. Some people could do it on foot in a day too, but not many, and they couldn't do it again for a day or two. Mostly on foot people would do the 33-36 miles in two days. Same with draught animals pulling heavily-laden carts. This was on some sort of road or track - not cross-country. As others have said, 2-3mph is a good estimate. It was also not in the middle of a blizzard or whatever bad weather there might be.

If I lived in Michigan I'd be looking for ways that kept the participants in motor vehicles.


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## tkrabec (Mar 12, 2003)

OUCH
My oldest and I are going to be in Las Vegas for the week starting Aug 2 (see Ernie's post http://www.homesteadingtoday.com/showthread.php?t=40410) that puts us about 2500 Miles from home or about 35 days of walking 24hrs/day at 3 mph( yeah right). 

We'll both have our Camel packs, but a GHB for that distance is gonna be fun. 
The good thing is he is in ROTC, but I'm a desk jockey (but a former Boy Scout) so after a week or 2 we'll be doing ok.


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## NickieL (Jun 15, 2007)

yup, the first few weeks of walkign are the touoghest/slowest but once you been on the trail a while, you can get 3-4 mph, 20-30 days with a load, through mountain terrain no problem so long as y ou have enough "fuel" to keep you going, and I speak from expirience.


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## Ernie (Jul 22, 2007)

A lot of y'all are going to die if you ever have to navigate overland in a prolonged emergency where law enforcement has broken down.

First off, you're not likely to be moving all day long. The safest way to move through hostile territory (and it will all be hostile) is to move in the 1 hour surrounding dawn and just after sunset. Maybe a little more on nights with a full moon. 

If you are seen by people with bad intent, you will die. They will run you down and kill you. While you've been walking all day, probably for days, they've most likely been sitting there waiting for someone to come by and living off the food supplied by the last victim.

If it rains cats and dogs? Awesome. Make some time. People aren't as likely to be looking for you in the rain and sentries will be less observant. An enormous amount of your time will simply be spent hiding and waiting for relative safe times in which to move. You will be cold, wet, and hungry for almost the whole time because if you light a fire ... you will be seen, caught, and killed.

This is how the military trains pilots to survive if they go down behind enemy lines. And you won't have a SEAL team or a pararescue crew coming to get you. 

Two miles per day under E&E circumstances is considered a reckless pace.


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## tkrabec (Mar 12, 2003)

Ernie said:


> A lot of y'all are going to die if you ever have to navigate overland in a prolonged emergency where law enforcement has broken down.
> 
> First off, you're not likely to be moving all day long. The safest way to move through hostile territory (and it will all be hostile) is to move in the 1 hour surrounding dawn and just after sunset. Maybe a little more on nights with a full moon.
> 
> ...


I agree that the trek will be very difficult. I will be amongst friends in Vegas, Several of them are bringing Firearms for target shooting. And there will be a decent group heading back towards FL. Well probably have the company of a marine sniper to Texas. 

Traveling at night makes the most sense, esp in the summer heat. I'm under not delusions that this would not be a looooong trip. its a 40hr trip in a car.


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## Ernie (Jul 22, 2007)

I'm not thinking that a collapse will come the week of August 2nd. Even if we default, it would take awhile for anything to happen, even if something is going to happen. I don't expect us to go from default to Mad Max overnight. Heck, I'm even going to be traveling some next week (though only to Indianapolis). I'll have my nose to the wind though and at the slightest sign of trouble I'll beebop back home so fast it'll be like I never left.

I would certainly prefer to have the company of a large group of armed men and a Marine sniper though.


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## FourDeuce (Jun 27, 2002)

"If you are seen by people with bad intent, you will die. They will run you down and kill you."

I wouldn't say that is guaranteed. Even though a traveling group is at a bit of a disadvantage, that doesn't mean they will be easy victims for any group of attackers. If the traveling group has a clue what they are doing(proper security and good tactics), they can make any group of attackers pay dearly for attacking them.:nono:


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## tkrabec (Mar 12, 2003)

FourDeuce said:


> "If you are seen by people with bad intent, you will die. They will run you down and kill you."
> 
> I wouldn't say that is guaranteed. Even though a traveling group is at a bit of a disadvantage, that doesn't mean they will be easy victims for any group of attackers. If the traveling group has a clue what they are doing(proper security and good tactics), they can make any group of attackers pay dearly for attacking them.:nono:


I agree a good group can make a huge difference, If I were to need to do this, some of the group is definitely better than other, many I'm assuming would have far less outdoor skill than I do, but assuming most would be teachable to some degree we'll do just fine.


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## texican (Oct 4, 2003)

tkrabec said:


> OUCH
> My oldest and I are going to be in Las Vegas for the week starting Aug 2 (see Ernie's post http://www.homesteadingtoday.com/showthread.php?t=40410) that puts us about 2500 Miles from home or about 35 days of walking 24hrs/day at 3 mph( yeah right).
> 
> We'll both have our Camel packs, but a GHB for that distance is gonna be fun.
> The good thing is he is in ROTC, but I'm a desk jockey (but a former Boy Scout) so after a week or 2 we'll be doing ok.


If I found myself that far away from the home 'compound', I'd reconcile myself to starting over, finding a remote valley and attempt to build a cabin with whatever I had available, or better yet, try and hook up with someone already in place, and pimp my skill sets. In pioneer days, a trip of a thousand miles might take several months, of hard living most of us have never experienced.

When I was traveling back and forth to AK for a decade, I carried all the necessary tools, to do just that... pull off into the Bush, and start living... Hard to do if one's travelin' by air. In a vehicle, no reason not to be prepared... Folks in AK said I reminded them of "Okies" from the "Grapes of Wrath" when I pulled in in the spring and left in early winter... rear of the camper stuffed solid, and gear strapped on top.

If I was caught out on foot, a thousand or so miles away, I'd hole up for six months or so, before hitting the 'road'... by then, most of the 'slow' folks would have died off, and hopefully quite a few of the desperadoes. Then, any one one met would be either a wary friend or a deadly foe. Hopefully, the night guards would have grown complacent by then, with the paucity of stragglers on the roads...


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## tkrabec (Mar 12, 2003)

If I was traveling with the family, I'd definitely start over. But as it will be myself and my oldest I won't leave my wife with 4 littler ones to contend with, my parents are ~30 miles from our house and hers are ~10. So making it home is a primary goal for me.


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## Callieslamb (Feb 27, 2007)

I talked with Dh about this again last night. We honestly think it would be better for our kids to stay in place until safe routes could be found or a group formed that would travel together. There has to be other kids at the college that would need to come your DD's way.


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## Goatguy (Aug 23, 2007)

wogglebug said:


> The world's very best marathon runners do just less than 8.75mph for 3 hours, then they don't attempt it again for three to six months because it's so hard on the body.


Although this is true... I believe your taking the point to the extreme. You are right, a Sub 3hr marathon is going to be hell on your body, and will continue to be for a few days afterwards. However, a 5-8hr marathon with a few miles of walking thrown in is certainly attainable by even the most average runners. 

The human body is very underrated when it comes to its ability to cross distance effectively and efficiently. I would say the trip could easily be done quickly (assuming you are in shape already and can run 5-10 miles without being sore the next day).

Stay in shape, get a camel back, have a calorie cache and have a way to refill your 1.5-2 liter camelback every 25 miles and it wouldn't be as hard as you think it would be to cover that distance (assuming the paths are in decent condition) in 2.5-3 days. Rest for a few days and the return journey could be just as quick.

The key is to not run too fast, that is where you'll kill yourself, If you take can run 10 miles right now, then I garauntee that if you slow down, have a few calories in your pocket and a backpack full of water, you could do 20, maybe 30 even before a long break was needed.

The human body is much more efficient when jogging then walking fast. Biomechanically speaking, we were designed just for that purpose.


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## Kathyhere (Sep 27, 2009)

Callieslamb, that is a possiblity that there would be enough others there wanting to make it back home that they could form a traveling party. A group of young people traveling through what could be a hostile territory is not a comforting thought. My husband might should go anyway and lead them back. I have every confidences he could make it if anybody could. He's not young, but he is a outdoorsman and knows how to live there and he has kind of a paranoid/suspicious personality that would be good in that situation.

There is just so many unknowns and I just want to think this stuff through a bit. Lots of good info provided to think on.


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## Joe Prepper (Jul 25, 2011)

There are alot of factors like people have said, but the most important thing is that you are all on the same page as to what she will do if ever there is an event where she will need to come home. 

Most likely, if you cant use a vehicle then there will be no phones either. In that unlikely event you need to have the logistics worked out in advance(kudos for workign on it now). 

Some things to think about.

Does she stay there...and where does she stay.

If so she might not be able to stay in her dorm...so where will you meet? 

What time of day should she check the meeting place every day until someone shows.? 

Would she be coming back alone or have a friend/boyfriend that would want to stay with her(how much food/water do you take to get her back?)

Does she have a good BOB and a bicycle to leave if she has too?

Could you possibly have another spot she could camp/hide out in between your house and the school that you check on the way there? Maybe have a small buried food/water/survival cache there. 

When thinking of worst case scenarios that are a lot of things to consider with a daughter off at school.


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## NickieL (Jun 15, 2007)

in my expirience, it's pretty easy to remain out of sight and hidden in the woods...and most groups of city pople/zombies know next to nothing about being in the woods and how to stay hidden and quiet and tend to avoid places like that....

if possible, I'd stick to the woods.


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## hintonlady (Apr 22, 2007)

Biggest factor in all of this is water. You can only go for so long without it.


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## PhilJohnson (Dec 24, 2006)

Sneaking through the woods sounds like a good invitation to get shot unless it so happens that there is public land for the entire 95 miles to the OP's daughter's Dorm/Apt. I'd take my chances on the roads and have a good backroad map handy. The longer it takes the OP to get to get her daughter the better the chances of something going wrong. People are by and large optimist, better to get there quickly before reality sets in than to diddle dally around for weeks sneaking through people's private property playing Rambo. Walking should be the absolute last choice, a single speed bike with solid tires would get a determined individual 95 miles in a day.There are only two reasons why I'd hike cross country, I'm either running from the police or the US got invaded by a foreign power. 

If things went to pot so fast that you can't get fuel and drive 95 miles to get your daughter walking with a big backpack (aka target) full of supplies would be foolish at best and at worst a good way to wind up dead. Most practical would be your daughter has a bicycle and enough gas on hand to always be able to make it home with her car (if she has one). If she doesn't which a lot of college kids don't you should have enough gas to get her and a few good bicycles in case of car trouble. I've been in situations that required me to get back home with no vehicle. Walking was the absolute last choice. The only place I walked to was to find myself a bike. Once I jumped a train for the fun of it and hobo'ed it for a few days where the train stopped. Finding places to sleep where I wouldn't get bothered was really hard. The third day I bought a cheap used single speed bike with a hard plastic seat and rode about 40 miles home. It took about 4 and a half hours. That was at a slow relaxing pace with one stop for some water.


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## farmerpat (Jan 1, 2008)

I would say have her keep a bike (with 2 spare tires or some fix-a-flat on hand), PLUS you keep enough gas in good sturdy gas cans (with gas treatment added) at your house to get to her location and back + factor in another 50-80 miles worth of fuel (in case you are stuck idling in traffic for lengthy periods using gas to sit there, or if you are detoured and it is a longer driving distance than your original route). If the roads are littered with cars and you can't get the whole way there, at least you can get part or most of the way there and you two can meet up and she can return with you. Also make sure she keeps her cell phone charged fully at all times, and if TSHTF and she has to start the trip back to you on the bike, you may want to have her keep the phone turned OFF except for turning it on for 5 mins every 2 hours (set up pre-arranged times like noon, 2 pm, etc, that you both will have your phones on so you can let each other know of any difficulties, etc,). I know my phone must be charged fully every night, or the battery is dead within the next 24 hrs. That way if either of you should have to change your route, you can keep the other one informed without draining the cell phone down like it would if you just left it on all the time. I don't know if there is such a thing as a bike cell phone charger (like they have for cars), but if they do, she may want to invest in that too as part of her lightweight BOB. 

Also, would her legs be able to get her any distance pedaling? That is something you both need to consider and be brutally honest about NOW. If she is not athletic, then starting out on the bike may NOT be the best thing. The best thing may for her to "bug in" at her house or another safe location until you can get there. 

And something to think about (as one who has endured MANY evacuations due to hurricanes), even if the roads are littered with out of gas cars, people usually pull OFF the road (or are pushed off the road by others) when they run out of gas so traffic impedement isn't usually a serious issue. People are not going to allow one car to block an entire lane of traffic and impede everyone's travel - they will push it out of the way and will do so pretty quickly, whether it's out of gas, has a flat, or is broken down.


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## Pelenaka (Jul 27, 2007)

farmerpat said:


> ... something to think about (as one who has endured MANY evacuations due to hurricanes), even if the roads are littered with out of gas cars, people usually pull OFF the road (or are pushed off the road by others) when they run out of gas so traffic impedement isn't usually a serious issue. People are not going to allow one car to block an entire lane of traffic and impede everyone's travel - they will push it out of the way and will do so pretty quickly, whether it's out of gas, has a flat, or is broken down.



Your probably right but I just can't help but think of that scene in the movie War of The Worlds where Tom Cruise and his two children are driving down the thruway weaving in & out of stalled cars, or the other scene where their van is surrounded by people and there pulled out or what happens to the guy who gets behind the wheel after that.


~~ pelenaka ~~
http://thirtyfivebyninety.blogspot.com/


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## PhilJohnson (Dec 24, 2006)

farmerpat said:


> Also, would her legs be able to get her any distance pedaling? That is something you both need to consider and be brutally honest about NOW. If she is not athletic, then starting out on the bike may NOT be the best thing.


She would really have to be out of shape and obese not to ride at a slow pace. Being that the OP's daughter has the advantage of youth and lack of fat I don't see there being much trouble with riding a bike even a fairly long distance. I could see pushing the bike up some hills if it's a single speed but you'll more than make up for it on the downhill. I'm a out of shape fat load and get winded pretty quick and I know I could go 40-50 miles plus in a day if I had to. Now I wouldn't be able to keep up that pace for weeks on end but for an emergency situation I'd be fine for 3-4 days. I've rode my bike on a whim 20 miles after work for the fun of it fairly recently. A few years ago when I was working in a large city every day after work I'd ride 20-25 miles. I did this for about a month although I made sure to eat plenty of bananas to avoid getting muscle cramps. There is no other form of transportation that is as efficient as a bike as far as distance versus calories burned. And while it may be wise for her to stay until her parents arrived (assuming the immediate area is safe) if fuel really is impossible to get the less time spent away from the OP's unprotected home the better.


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## NickieL (Jun 15, 2007)

it was 2 years since I last really rode my bike any distance, last month some friends and I went to a special bike trail...we rode 20 miles in a few hours with breaks so 20 miles is not that hard.


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## hintonlady (Apr 22, 2007)

If things were so bad that driving were not possible anyone with a bike would be a prime target. 

Just sayin'.


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## Ernie (Jul 22, 2007)

The problem with a bike is that you can ride faster than your situational awareness can keep up with.


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## NewGround (Dec 19, 2010)

What's your best strategy other than escape and evasion if you are spotted? What I mean is you stay out of sight as much as possible but if you are spotted would you be better off seen with weapons at the ready and loaded for bear or keep all weapons out of sight and look "harmless" so any threat would likely move in close rather than snipe you from a distance?


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## Ernie (Jul 22, 2007)

Depends whom you are spotted by. Most bandits (and soldiers) aren't dedicated enough to go after you into harsh terrain. Head uphill, into a nasty swamp, etc. The worse it is for you, the less likely they are to go after you.

I'd like to be macho and say that I'd stand my ground and face attackers, but people are listening and this could be a very real situation y'all might find yourself in at some future point.

Run, rabbit, run. Head for wherever you think they won't follow or where you might lose them. 

Remember: A wolf survives by being a wolf but a rabbit survives by being a rabbit.


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## NewGround (Dec 19, 2010)

For those who have to travel the roads on foot I would suggest traveling in the tree line when there is one. Roads could still be used for navigation if that's the best you can do but traveling near enough to see them doesn't mean walking on the shoulder... 

Triple alert at the pinch points such as bridges or other features that funnel you into narrow spaces...


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## Ernie (Jul 22, 2007)

The only time you ever ought to put foot on the road is at a bridge point, and you ought to hide in cover for a good long while watching it first. See if other groups are crossing successfully or if there's any sign of danger. 

If you're traveling a regular route now, it would be best to keep an eye on landmarks and such that you could navigate by on foot.


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## PhilJohnson (Dec 24, 2006)

NewGround said:


> What's your best strategy other than escape and evasion if you are spotted? What I mean is you stay out of sight as much as possible but if you are spotted would you be better off seen with weapons at the ready and loaded for bear or keep all weapons out of sight and look "harmless" so any threat would likely move in close rather than snipe you from a distance?


I used to explore a lot of abandoned structures ranging from houses to insane asylums. It wasn't a good idea, now that I'm older I've grown out of poking around. Now while everyone else can play armchair get away I've actually had to do it. Sneaking onto people's property to avoid roads is stupid. I don't care if it's the middle of their woods in the middle of the night, you are playing the odds just the same as someone riding down the middle of the road. 

Not only will you be surprised just what kind of people are poking around the woods at night (BTDT) it's a great way of getting hurt (BTDT). You'll be running through the thickest bush imaginable from some angry property owner and then trip and fall down an embankment into a stream. Then when you emerge from the stream soaked head to toe you realize your shoe got lost while trying to hustle away lest you want a taste of rock salt via shotgun or worse. More crashing and stumbling through the woods, cut your foot wide open. Later it gets infected and you get blood streaks. But in my case I could go to the doctor and I didn't get gang green.

It's all about out loosing people right away. If you still have someone tailing you after a quarter mile you're done unless you are in great shape and know the area. Depending on the time of year corn fields are the best to loose people in. There is no quicker way of loosing someone than in a corn field, there is very little to trip over plus if you are sneaky you can minimize the noise while you're trying to high tail it away from some nut. Long needle pine groves with new growth are great for loosing people too. White pine is the best, the thick needles are quiet, the dead pine needles kill most of the undergrowth so you won't be rustling up noisy shrubs and what not and the tripping hazards are low. Plus the branches are limber and it's easy to run through it versus a bunch of shrubby deciduous growth. Fall and spring are the noisiest times of the year if there hasn't been much rain. Those dead leaves will rattle real good while you're stumbling through them not to mention dead leaves really get crunchy underfoot.

The best way to avoid trouble is to go at night on secondary roads that are paved. Gravel roads are noisy, bike tires are quieter than clip clopping of feet. After walking for a few days I'll guarantee you'll be doing more of a shuffle than a walk unless you're used to walking very long distances. The other problem with gravel is it drowns out other sounds so you'll be less aware of your surroundings. If you decide to crunch crunch through the woods you might attract the very people you are trying to avoid not to mention like gravel you won't be able to hear trouble. Also hiking in the woods at night is a great way to get lots of branches in the face while your partner forgets that you're behind them for the 20th time. Plus most woods are full of nasty biting bugs. Slogging through dew filled woods with soaked shoes and getting bit up is mega lame. That is another advantage for the bike, an easy 6-10 mph pace will leave most of the bugs behind you instead of on you. 

Going through nasty terrain should be a last resort, not the first. After doing that for weeks on end you'll get so fatigued you won't be able to think straight. Sleeping while worrying about getting caught is the worst sleep ever. If law and order broke down time is of the essence. Like with any disaster it's all about response time. Hiding out and trying to avoid a single soul from seeing you and taking 5 times longer to get to the destination to bring back someone safely is a bad plan. I said this before, the OP needs to get her daughter out ASAP in that situation before people's last meal is nothing more that a warm fuzzy memory.


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## Ernie (Jul 22, 2007)

Well, if we're really, really lucky then we'll all get to use Phil's method. If we're really, really unlucky then we'll have to use mine.


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## NickieL (Jun 15, 2007)

Ernie said:


> The only time you ever ought to put foot on the road is at a bridge point, and you ought to hide in cover for a good long while watching it first. See if other groups are crossing successfully or if there's any sign of danger.
> 
> If you're traveling a regular route now, it would be best to keep an eye on landmarks and such that you could navigate by on foot.


I agree. I'd rather take my chances sneaking through woods then on the roads if things have broken down that bad.

Its very easy to remain out of view and hidden with cover. I have camped many a nights in places I wasn't supposed to be, and no one knew the difference. If you know your way around the wilds, its much safer. Bad guys typically stay where it is easiest for them... near big parks, roads, etc. They don't hiking in many miles with supplies in the HOPES they might chance upon a victim. No, they go where the picking is more sure and easy. But that's jsut me...I know my way around the woods. My grandpa tought me a lot and he was a ranger/sniper and an excellent hunger. He did not hunt using stands or blinds or baits. He stalked his prey and I went with him a lot as a child.

Now If you don't know anything about backwoods travel, you should likely stay towards the roads.


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## PhilJohnson (Dec 24, 2006)

Ernie said:


> Well, if we're really, really lucky then we'll all get to use Phil's method. If we're really, really unlucky then we'll have to use mine.


This isn't a debate about methods. Remember the original situation, unathletic young woman stuck in a large town 95 miles away. Every second you waste trying to be sneaky is every second that she is in danger. The idea is to use common sense and use risk assessment. Who is at greater risk, a young woman in a large town or someone riding down a secondary road in the middle of the night? 



NickieL said:


> I agree. I'd rather take my chances sneaking through woods then on the roads if things have broken down that bad.
> 
> Its very easy to remain out of view and hidden with cover. I have camped many a nights in places I wasn't supposed to be, and no one knew the difference. If you know your way around the wilds, its much safer. Bad guys typically stay where it is easiest for them... near big parks, roads, etc. They don't hiking in many miles with supplies in the HOPES they might chance upon a victim. No, they go where the picking is more sure and easy. But that's jsut me...I know my way around the woods. My grandpa tought me a lot and he was a ranger/sniper and an excellent hunger. He did not hunt using stands or blinds or baits. He stalked his prey and I went with him a lot as a child.
> 
> Now If you don't know anything about backwoods travel, you should likely stay towards the roads.


Even now with automotive travel on most secondary roads there may be one car an hour. You think a bad guy is going to wait all night on a road that even now receives nearly zero night traffic waiting for a victim? Unless there is some sort of trip wire (good reason to keep one's speed down) across the road the chances of someone trying to stay up all night every night in the oft chance that they find someone worth robbing is a lot lower than one getting lost or hurt in the woods. If you're unlucky you'll wind up in some paranoid nut's booby trap that he had set up so people don't sneak around his private property. Most people on this forum talk about zombies and protecting their property, what would you do if you found someone sneaking through your property in the middle of the night in a SHTF situation. Would you think to yourself, gee I bet this guy is just trying to find a safe way to get to his destination or would you grab your gun? Even if they told you the truth would you believe it?

Another thing going in the woods where you've grown up in or know is one thing, I've done it lots of times in the middle of the night. Doing it when it's pitch black with no lights somewhere that is unfamiliar is quite another. I'd like to see some of you try it, go to an unfamiliar area and wait till it's pitch black. Have a destination on the other side of the woods and see how long it takes you there (if you can even get there at all). The other assumption is that there will be solid cover all the way to this town. Unless there is a large state/federally owned chunk of land the chances of one being able to even get into the woods several miles without stumbling upon other people's houses is remote. That just isn't realistic for much of the US. It's realistic where I live but then again I live in an area that isn't typical of the rest of the US. There are farm fields, subdivisions, weird crap you never thought would exist in the middle of nowhere. There will be areas where you will have to cross out in the open, possibly for miles at a time.


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## NickieL (Jun 15, 2007)

You assume i'd be sneaking around at night. i wouldn't. I'd travel by day. But you go on about your way. I'll go about mine. I'm very good in the woods. much less so by road. i'll use my strengths to my advantage. Other people's skills or lack of are different.


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## tkrabec (Mar 12, 2003)

If you're quick and prepared, the 1st day or 2 is probably not going to be total chaos. So if you can get moving & fast, bike, car, motercycle, just walking on a road. You should be able to get a decent head start before you decend into the woods or have to take it slower. Also every mile away from Civilazation & zombiles is good, much less risk of running into some one, but not a reason to let down your guard. 
If we're talking about moving 2 miles/day as a good day, a sprint out the door & travel while people are still figuring out what is going on can be great, riding a tractor until it runs out of gas on day 1, cuts down on your travel days & initial calorie expenditure.


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## Wags (Jun 2, 2002)

When I went off to college 225 miles away from home I would never have expected my parents to come get me in an emergency and I didn't even have a car for the first quarter. I rode my bike out to the dairy farm where I milked cows at 1am and often rode back at the end of my shift in below zero temps with my wet clothes frozen to me by the time I got back to the dorm. 

Unless there is some reason why this college student is incapable of taking care of herself due to health reasons 95 miles on a bicycle, depending on terrain of course, is a 2 or 3 day trip at most. If she leaves when the balloon goes up, she should be home before things start getting really crazy.


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## 1fast68 (Apr 20, 2009)

This might have already been beat to death but here are my thoughts. I know someone that just walked over 200 miles to raise money. After they trained for months they were only able to travel 30 miles a day. After 3 days they had terrible blisters on their feet. (you have to consider wet conditions when walking as well as cold) This distance was with someone setting up a camp for breakfast, lunch and dinner. Carrying enough water to make a 100 mile trip would be next to impossible. Carrying enough food and water would be worse. I think the best option would be to have a dual sport motorcycle. It would easily make the trip and back on a tank of gas and if you left when things started getting bad you would have the option to go "off road" if needed.


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## PhilJohnson (Dec 24, 2006)

NickieL said:


> You assume i'd be sneaking around at night. i wouldn't. I'd travel by day. But you go on about your way. I'll go about mine. I'm very good in the woods. much less so by road. i'll use my strengths to my advantage. Other people's skills or lack of are different.


Ok then, but as I said before the chance that you could sneak all the way to a large city on private property through the woods for months in the day light without coming to a place with open spaces or being seen are about as good as the young lady you are trying to rescue still being safe when you arrive. If you ever find yourself in this situation you better hope you don't come across an S&EP member who often thinks about and has prepared for random strangers deciding to sneak on their property. There has been thread after thread about booby traps and shooting zombies. To most you would look like a zombie, and we all know what the response is when you come across a zombie. If you are really really lucky you'll be able to cross 95 miles of private property on foot in the daylight without being spotted or shot at. I doubt you are going to belly crawl the entire time. I'd say unless you are in great shape and were a former Navy Seal or an Army Ranger I think your expectations of yourself are unrealistic.


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## Wags (Jun 2, 2002)

1fast68 said:


> I think the best option would be to have a dual sport motorcycle.


Would one of those run if the event was an EMP?


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## NickieL (Jun 15, 2007)

95 miles through varying terrain with a heavy load would be a week for me, trail or no trail. I KNOW. I've done it. I've done many more miles and have spent months on trail as well. I very well KNOW what I am capable of. Thanks though, for your warnings.


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## PhilJohnson (Dec 24, 2006)

NickieL said:


> 95 miles through varying terrain with a heavy load would be a week for me, trail or no trail. I KNOW. I've done it. I very well KNOW what I am capable of. Thanks though, for your warnings.


Through private property in a settled area around a large town


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## NickieL (Jun 15, 2007)

PhilJohnson said:


> Through private property?


Sometimes. what do you think I do around here? no way am I paying 14 bucks a night to camp near a bunch of yahoos in RVs.


And my gear is all tested, tried and true. My boots will not give me blisters. granted, my pack is now a bit heavier because I have added rappelling gear this year, but if I'm going on a retrieval, through land generally around here, I won't need it and can leave the rappelling stuff home.

like I said, it will work for me most likely but if YOU don't have those kinds of skills, it wouldn't likely work for you.


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## Parttimefarmer (May 5, 2011)

NickieL said:


> Sometimes. what do you think I do around here? no way am I paying 14 bucks a night to camp near a bunch of yahoos in RVs.
> 
> 
> And my gear is all tested, tried and true. My boots will not give me blisters. granted, my pack is now a bit heavier because I have added rappelling gear this year, but if I'm going on a retrieval, through land generally around here, I won't need it and can leave the rappelling stuff home.
> ...


The hiking is quite lovely in the sw Indiana area, so I am willing to yahoo it since I am 9 hours away. I go every year, love it!

Having thought on this, I probably would not try and walk. I would grab the ATV and travel like a bat out of hell (yes loud, I know, but fast!) at dusk until I could steal/trade for a couple horses. Then I would stay in the orchards and go by compass. Not much I wouldn't do to get to my daughter quickly.


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## PhilJohnson (Dec 24, 2006)

NickieL said:


> Sometimes. what do you think I do around here? no way am I paying 14 bucks a night to camp near a bunch of yahoos in RVs.
> 
> And my gear is all tested, tried and true. My boots will not give me blisters. granted, my pack is now a bit heavier because I have added rappelling gear this year, but if I'm going on a retrieval, through land generally around here, I won't need it and can leave the rappelling stuff home.
> 
> like I said, it will work for me most likely but if YOU don't have those kinds of skills, it wouldn't likely work for you.


Let's say you make it 95 miles in a week (that is a steady 2 mph pace for 8 hours a day for 7 days assuming you have flat terrain and no obstacles, people or natural ones. You get to the city. Now what? You're going to have to go into a situation with a lot of people, most of whom are going to be desperate. You have a large backpack full of supplies. You are going to have to hope that the young lady is where she was before SHTF. You've wasted the small 24-48 hour window where people are still expecting the government to take care of them. They are now hungry and desperate. There are no woods to sneak through. My whole point is you better get there ASAP. A bike would get you there in a day especially if you claim you can hike through the woods 95 miles in a week. 

I've camped for free lots of times too, I even slept in a van in a junkyard once when I was on foot (along with the woods, a van at a dealership, and a camper). That isn't the same as this situation.


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## Ernie (Jul 22, 2007)

No, Phil, I didn't want to debate methods.

But since you bring it up, the method I explained is the way the military teaches pilots to escape and evade behind enemy lines as opposed to some method learned as a juvenile delinquent trespassing on other people's properties.

I hope that whomever has to travel in a bad situation has the judgement to determine what level of safety and security the situation dictates, but SHOULD they have to go worst case ... then I think hiding and being sneaky is STILL the best method. It's worked well for pilots from Scott O'Grady all the way back to Bat 21 and countless downed airmen in WW2.


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## 1fast68 (Apr 20, 2009)

Wags said:


> Would one of those run if the event was an EMP?


If it is a kick start only with a magnito ignition...magnito's are not effected by EMPs


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## PhilJohnson (Dec 24, 2006)

Ernie said:


> No, Phil, I didn't want to debate methods.
> 
> But since you bring it up, the method I explained is the way the military teaches pilots to escape and evade behind enemy lines as opposed to some method learned as a juvenile delinquent trespassing on other people's properties.
> 
> I hope that whomever has to travel in a bad situation has the judgement to determine what level of safety and security the situation dictates, but SHOULD they have to go worst case ... then I think hiding and being sneaky is STILL the best method. It's worked well for pilots from Scott O'Grady all the way back to Bat 21 and countless downed airmen in WW2.


Countless of downed airmen got captured. The other difference is that they were not trying to rescue anyone, their main goal was to stay hidden to be rescued. Plus we are talking about a battle field where most of the occupants have fled. The best method is to get DD ASAP. And while my own methods while using them for stupid curiosity seem crude it did work. You talk of theory I talk of experience. Do you have any real life experience trying not to get caught? What would you do if you found someone on your property sneaking around? Suggesting that someone should waste a bunch of precious time on private property to avoid dangers that may or may not exist on secondary roads that aren't even that well traveled now while risking the ire of countless landowners is bad advice. There may come a time when you need to flee into someone's woods, but if you are so danged afraid of highway men that you'd rather waste weeks of hiking through woods I don't see how in the heck you are going to get someone out of the city that is crawling with "zombies".


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## Kathyhere (Sep 27, 2009)

Okay it is a given that you would want to get to someone as quickly as possible to bring them home in a SHTF situation. A vehicle of some sort would be the best means for sure and a bicycle might be better (depends) and quicker than on foot. 

But I wanted to know how long it would take to cover this distance on foot. Because we just don't know what future situation might persent.

I think that sticking to the roads would be taking the long way around, and too exposed. Where as a combination of cutting through wooded areas and using some roads could be better, with a good map, making for best use of travel time and distance. I person moving through an area is not the same as a person sneaking around looking for stuff to steal, most should be able to tell the difference. I am also thinking it would be possible to find water and food to replenishment somewhere along the way, not a certainty, but possible. 

Once near the city you could remove and cover/hide your pack. Using a combination of roads and cutting throught areas to get to the place/apartment, she is holding up in. She could not start out on her on, that would be far too dangerous. But being with a big unfriendly man/dad could deter most on the way back, the rest by other or whatever means, he's not a man to mince words. She is young and health and not over weight and could make it with a good guide. The way back should be a little less difficult as he would have already been that way, but having her in tow would make it harder.

Just going over possibilities in my mind that might not have been considered. I already know her getting home as quickly as possible in her vehicle and someone's else's is best. Just need to know more about those way out scenario, like having to walk. Thanks everybody some great help here.


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## Callieslamb (Feb 27, 2007)

hintonlady said:


> If things were so bad that driving were not possible anyone with a bike would be a prime target.
> 
> Just sayin'.


I was thinking this same thing. A bike would be a great prize in a time with no cars. It might be best to look like you have no nothing worth taking.

What, if anything, is between your DD and home? Any large cities? Is it rural? She actually might have a better chance than you think walking - if she doesn't have to travel through any cities. Rural people are generally good people - if you leave them and theirs alone. 

If I saw people walking near my house trying to get home - I'd feed them.


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## Kathyhere (Sep 27, 2009)

The area between home and the university is mostly rural, no big cities. I was thinking that you might have people that would help too, a long the way. 

But a young woman trying to make that hike along seems worse than trying to find people to hold out with in the city, for awhile anyway.


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## NickieL (Jun 15, 2007)

Take not only TOPO map(s) but compass as well and KNOW how to use them. In the early spring I teach orientation to people in our club...Usually I drop them on one side of a park, hand them a map, make sure they all remember the lecture on using the compass and wait for them on the other side...LOL sometimes they get it, sometimes I meet up with them after tracking them a bit if it seems they been out too long. And no, it's not along a trail, I don't make it easy for therm. There are swamps, briers, thick brush, thick woods and even a river with out an easy way to cross. The first time I generally lead the group, show the the ropes. Show them how to improvise with what they have in their pockets and around in the area if need be. I suggest finding a class you can learn these things in.


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## Parttimefarmer (May 5, 2011)

NickieL said:


> Take not only TOPO map(s) but compass as well and KNOW how to use them. In the early spring I teach orientation to people in our club...Usually I drop them on one side of a park, hand them a map, make sure they all remember the lecture on using the compass and wait for them on the other side...LOL sometimes they get it, sometimes I meet up with them after tracking them a bit if it seems they been out too long. And no, it's not along a trail, I don't make it easy for therm. There are swamps, briers, thick brush, thick woods and even a river with out an easy way to cross. The first time I generally lead the group, show the the ropes. Show them how to improvise with what they have in their pockets and around in the area if need be. I suggest finding a class you can learn these things in.


I learned it in 6th grade, we were taught it in school. I am amazed that more schools don't teach it!


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## NewGround (Dec 19, 2010)

Maybe it's different in other parts of the country but around where I live I could mostly mirror the roads but travel just far enough out of sight to lessen the likelihood of being spotted... Still I would want good topo maps and the know how to use them... I like the idea of finding a club as there's a big difference in book learnin' and doin'...

Doesn't everyone here already have a portable water filter by now? I have a couple, got one off the LDS site and extra filters too so I wouldn't have to carry too much water in this kind of case. Finding food along the way is "iffy" when you are moving within a timeframe so take a water filter and carry more no-cook food.

Once things get bad being a ghost is a good thing... Skirting land is different than cutting straight through... Also if you travel like a tin peddler of old through the woods you're going to draw more attention than one or two moving quietly and respectfully through the woods. If you're cutting fences or leaving gates open you are just asking for trouble and also remember what they used to do to horse thieves...


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## NickieL (Jun 15, 2007)

I have several backpacking filters. Water would not be an issue unless it was 100+ out and in very dry country...it's not an issue around here in the great swamp  which is nice...I've done both...hiked across the Mojave and also through death valley. What puddles you do find are um...usually green. And water is VERY HEAVY to carry. LOL For a week in the back country off trail or on, I try to keep my pack weights about 20-25 lbs. In the winter, it's heavier of course as more calories are needed to keep warm and moving so more food and fuel packed (I use HEET, the stuff you put in cars for fuel in the summer in my homemade tiny alcohol stove and in winter, white gas in the whisperlite as alcohol fuels don't burn well if at all when cold. When I am out more then a week long, I try to resupply at the 5-7th day but have gone as far as 2 weeks without resupply, making for a very heavy pack.


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## NickieL (Jun 15, 2007)

Parttimefarmer said:


> I learned it in 6th grade, we were taught it in school. I am amazed that more schools don't teach it!


you'd be surprised how many DON'T know. It was always second nature for me, I learned as soon as I could crawl LOL Of course I had a lot of time on my hands as a kid sitting around in deer camp or fish camp or duck camp or just: camp camp LOL Whe I was going to school, nothing like that was ever mentioned.


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## Kathyhere (Sep 27, 2009)

Nickie, the info from all your experience has been very helpful, thanks.


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## kirkmcquest (Oct 21, 2010)

I have hiked a good deal of the Appalachian trail and other long distance hikes. 2 mph on mountain trails is about my long term average, 4 on flat ground. That was carrying a 30 lbs pack with supplies and etc.


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## kirkmcquest (Oct 21, 2010)

After reading through the thread I think going 95 miles through a panic torn country side, to reach your daughter in a panic torn city, is basically a suicide run no matter how you do it.
The smart thing to do is set your daughter up with a survival plan so she can stay with trusted people until the heat blows over. Better to keep the home fires burning so that she has a place to go *to*, rather than killing yourselves on a fool's errand and leaving her alone in a broken world.


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## NickieL (Jun 15, 2007)

I forgot to add that altitude will affect pace too, if you are way up high, it will be diffrent then flat land low land.

Everyone's altitude tolerances seem to be different from my experiences...I don't get winded by altitude until 13,500-14,000 feet elevation on a climb but i have a brother who gets SICK at 10,000, even with a day to acclimate and has to either take medicine or evacuate asap lower. so if you are traveling over mountains, just something else to keep in mind


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## shawnlee (Apr 13, 2010)

Something I have thought about also is .......I imagine it will take a while before the bad guys garrison up and move like highway bandits thru out the land.

Initial flash mob violence, some residual mayhem and some lone wolf bandits would be the first phase in my mind, mainly in the large towns.

I think it will take several months of no ROL and ammo supplies to be diminished before the thugs will band up and go scavenge over any distance.......too much prey and resources close at hand in a city type enviroment...plus word of mouth from petty thiefs of which people are armed and who is still shooting bullets will help them fleece the helpless first as a easy prey source.

I think the really bad bands of roving thugs will come much later, once ammo and resourced have dried up locally.

Time as always is the key...get a jump so to speak...as the clock ticks away in WROL situation the worse it will get, untill society completly breaks down even in the rural areas.

Isolation in the end will be the best and terrain the best fence, such as miles of dessert or any other natural barrier that is hard to navigate on foot or takes too many resources to venture out that far from a base in gas/resource exspendature.

If society continued untill total decay was reached....I would estimate that time in years, then roving bands of thugs that migrated from resource to resource would take hold and enter a area, use up everything and then continue on to the next resource untill that one was depleted on a never ending journey chasing resources...........untill eventually they also decayed and mutiny in the ranks decimated them also as it always does.......

Then it would just be survivors and lone wolfs spread out over great distances, with some thug/slave type strongholds established in areas of heavy resources, such as rich farmland or any other plentiful renewable food/water source.

Then eventually some laws would be established in areas that managed to hold it together and remain civil and work together and a sence of normality would resume in those areas.

In the warlord WROL type slave areas there would be rebellion or they would venture out and try and take resources from the civil ROL areas that emerged and we would have the makings of war in time....between lawlessness and civility.........how it ends and who wins is anyone guess.


Societies have broken down and been reformed since time has begun....this would be just yet another case in history of a similiar event that took place in yet another different way than before......no matter the reasons or justifications, it will be just another repeat of the rise and fall of a civilization in time.

Same as the documented history we read in books of the romans and many other civilizations that have rose and fell over time...our very begginings in this country was the fall of another way of life for another civilization........in order for there to be a begining, there has to be a end.

This event would fall well documented right into the history books along side of countless told and untold tales of the same nature that have occured many times before.

Hopefully a event of this nature will be avoided and we can fix things and make our civilization of American last thousands of years, rather than hundreds....if nothings else we will set the record for the greatest rise and fall that has occured over a set time period ever recorded.

It took past societies many many hundreds of years or thousands of years to complete the cycle of rise and fall.......at least we will have been part of a society who rose higher than any in the past and fell faster than any recorded one we know of.........sad thing to set a record on actually, but true if it breaks all the way down here soon.

It is truely intriuging to ponder how this span of time will look in 1 or 2 hundred years from now, how it will be viewed thru the eyes of humanity once it comes to pass and place it will take in history........I think it will at best be compared to the dark ages of humanity....A time when we knew better, but still did wrong.....a shame really for highly educated society to be in such a state as we are now.

I think in histories eyes we will be viewed much as we view the barbarians of the past, only thing that will stand out is we knew better but still did as we do.



Thats my story and I am stickin to it......

I can only imagine how I will view this post after I goto sleep and wake in the morning, if nothing else it will teach me not to hit reply at 4 am.

As what was once a responce to the original post has turned into a sci-fi rant on a scenario that may never happen in my lifetime, a unknown possibility of outcomes which I had laid out that are virtually unpredictable.....


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## kirkmcquest (Oct 21, 2010)

shawnlee said:


> Something I have thought about also is .......I imagine it will take a while before the bad guys garrison up and move like highway bandits thru out the land.
> 
> Initial flash mob violence, some residual mayhem and some lone wolf bandits would be the first phase in my mind, mainly in the large towns.
> 
> ...


Interesting, I would love to see a collaborative effort of some of the people on this forum in writing a doomsday novel. With all the knowledge on HT combined with this type of imagination, it would be a best seller.


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## Kathyhere (Sep 27, 2009)

A boomsday novel, that isn't a bad idea, I really like it. Each person could have their own chapter as to how it all came apart in their world form their perspective. It would be very interesting indeed.


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## WindowOrMirror (Jan 10, 2005)

an untrained person might make 1.0-1.5 mph for 10 or 12 hours, but they would have trouble repeating it. In addition, they would need to know what direction to go, and if the defecatory byproduct is slung against the oscillating wind creator, walking across open country will become quickly dangerous (especially as a young woman).

R


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## stanb999 (Jan 30, 2005)

:stars:

Why is the young woman so feeble? I just can't wrap my head around the fact that she wouldn't be better setting out on the bike almost immediatly. She would be out in the rural areas you say are there in less than a day. More likely a few hours. Most towns folk aren't going to pester a young woman or even notice her. They will be busy trying to figure out what they are going to be doing. No road blocks. No roving bands of MZB's maybe after a few weeks but not initially and certainly not after a few hours.

You think hiding in the woods works? ound: Maybe in 1944. Today they have nightvision. Even members of this forum have it. It really isn't expensive at all. TPTB can see you in your house. Even if it's concrete.

Her biggest issue will be getting out of town before the PTB come and "help". They will lock down the area and no one will be leaving. Yeah, sneak away in the woods... Good luck with that.


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## Kathyhere (Sep 27, 2009)

Yes I know this scenario is way out there. We already know that her getting home fast is the best answer under all circumstances. She has her own car (no bicycle) and she should be able to get home right away. But she is young, not experienced in the woods at all, not the outdoors type. She could not attempt that alone any kind of way at all, accept in a car. So we already know how we should handle that.

But what I'm asking about is the way out scenario, I want to know about that slimest of chances that could possibly happen. I want o have at least considered most SHTF scenarios. I did not know what it would be like to try to walk a long, but reasonable distance to get her, I know a lot more about it now. She is in school 95 miles from home, so that is my fictitious scenario. That is what this is all about, I just wanted to know what people thought about walking a long distances after the SHTF. Thanks for all the replies.


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## shawnlee (Apr 13, 2010)

My best advice for the study in these matters is.....other than the great advice that has been given here.....is to look to the deer and the rabbit.

They live daily in the scenario you would face treking a long distance in bad times.....

They search for food and water all day long under the constant pressure of being killed and surviving the elements.Your struggle would be very much the same as theirs.

Just observe those animals and how they react and what they do survive and I would bet this would give you further insight as well.

Good luck on your quest for information.......


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## Owldancer (Jun 24, 2010)

As a possible idea, could you get two bikes (does she ride a bike) and her and your husband could make the trip from the college to your home in the here and now before bad times. Just to see how to do it, how long it would take, what they would need, and what route.


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## soulsurvivor (Jul 4, 2004)

I understand this is already a well discussed topic, but I have some advice to offer that hasn't yet been mentioned, or if it has been I failed to read it in the previous postings here. Your daughter is attending a university that is 95 miles away. Are there any others from your area that also attend this university, and if so, would it be possible to meet with them and their parents to develop/discuss an action plan that your "group" of children/young adults could use in making plans to get home if a serious situation developed that required them to return home? 

It was a long time ago, late 60s, when I attended university that was over a hundred miles from my home. I didn't drive and I didn't own a car. I carpooled with other students from this area to attend school and I paid them to be my wheels. There were 15 of us that attended the university as freshmen. About half of those owned/drove a car. We all kept in touch and whenever someone was heading "home" they would let the others know. It worked great for all 4 years of undergraduate for me. 

If you meet with other parents about developing a plan, it could be done on the premise that it's prudent in this day and age to have backup plans for unexpected situations. 

I'd also check with the university to see what emergency plans they have available. You might be nicely surprised with what they offer.


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## texican (Oct 4, 2003)

The way I figure it, if things go completely rotten, loved ones outside of my ever shrinking universe of control, are on their own. I have a niece with children, her hubby spends most of his time in Afghanistan... she just 'had to' move back to CO, exactly 1000 miles away. Something bad happens, no way I can help her... she and the kids are on their own. 

Once the word gets out, things are bad everywhere, and Law and Order shrivels away........ we're all on our own, imho. Bugging out or traveling after every Dick and Jane 'knows' the old paradigm is gone, and another is emerging, should be seen as a deadly serious matter. Time is your enemy... travel quick (while a semblance of stout hearted souls keep the last vestiges of civilization moving) or don't travel at all. 

If I had the daughter at school, 95 miles away, I'd have her practice dropping everything, getting in the car, and driving straight home. Never ever let the cars fuel tank get below 1/2. Give her a call the moment you think she should drop what she's doing, and expect her to do it, no questions asked, regardless of consequences. If you could get her home immediately, most of your worries would dissipate. Shy of an EMP, asteroid, volcano, earthquake... you'd be good. Even then, get out early, and you have a great chance...


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## damoc (Jul 14, 2007)

10 miles per day would be decent with a heavy load so 10 days
20 miles per day with a fit person traveling light so 5 days
a strong well prepared person could maybee do 40 or 50 miles in a day but they would be wasted after that.

also while it may take you 2 weeks or more to walk back with your daughter
you will want to get to her ASAP. a pushbike could be ok for that
or a moped/minibike thing that does not use much fuel


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## tkrabec (Mar 12, 2003)

I look at long distance travel as a progression, unless you're in shape you going to do a few miles/day for the 1st week or 2, gradually getting a little more each day. Now that assumes you're traveling over a not too hostile area, terrain or people. there will probably be days you don't move and days you cannot stop moving for 1 reason or another. The biggest challanges are going to be food, water & injuries.


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## Wags (Jun 2, 2002)

Kathyhere said:


> Yes I know this scenario is way out there. We already know that her getting home fast is the best answer under all circumstances. She has her own car (no bicycle) and she should be able to get home right away. But she is young, not experienced in the woods at all, not the outdoors type. She could not attempt that alone any kind of way at all, accept in a car. So we already know how we should handle that.
> 
> But what I'm asking about is the way out scenario, I want to know about that slimest of chances that could possibly happen. I want o have at least considered most SHTF scenarios. I did not know what it would be like to try to walk a long, but reasonable distance to get her, I know a lot more about it now. She is in school 95 miles from home, so that is my fictitious scenario. That is what this is all about, I just wanted to know what people thought about walking a long distances after the SHTF. Thanks for all the replies.


So she doesn't have a bicycle - get her one. Teach her how to get home safely and quickly on it.


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## Kathyhere (Sep 27, 2009)

texican - my thoughts exactly.

tkrabec - that's what I am beginning to realize.

Wags - bikes are high on my list of prep needs.


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## AngieM2 (May 10, 2002)

Another older thread with some interesting information and thoughts.

Though it would be good to read what was said and see if any thoughts have changed, or maybe newer members would enjoy reading it and thinking about what they would do.


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## hoggie (Feb 11, 2007)

Our d of e kids walk at between 3 and 4 km per hour carrying 1/4 of their body weight if that helps at all


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## hoggie (Feb 11, 2007)

ha ha - sorry Angie - just realised it was an old thread you ohad bumped - I'm a bit slow tonight


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## fishhead (Jul 19, 2006)

We've been walking a lot lately. Since the start of the Memorial weekend we've walked 60-70 miles so I'm used to walking. I just did an 8 mile walk and it took me about 3 hours and I was on pavement and trying to push it.

25 years ago I walked 3 miles in 30 minutes or 6 mph but I was in a lot better shape.

This is just to give you an idea of what's possible.


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## mnn2501 (Apr 2, 2008)

Don't forget rest and sleep time, few modern people could keep 2 mph miles up over the long term.
Kind of sad when you consider all the pioneers that walked 1/2 way across the nation in the 1800's.


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## bourbonred (Feb 27, 2008)

Wow, Angie, I just thought about this thread yesterday. We took dd17 to look at a college 2 hours away (Marshall--the thundering herd), and on the way home dd and dh were laughing at me worrying how we would get her home if needed. DH laughed and said "well, Marshall is 15 minutes from the OH and all she'd have to do is keep a blow up raft in her car with a bike pump and ride down the Ohio to the closest town to us, then walk home." We all laughed, then I put my mind to what kinda blow-up raft she would need. It sure beats bicycling home.


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## PhilJohnson (Dec 24, 2006)

This last March I went on a trip out to the Black Canyon in AZ. My friends and I took bikes and a lot of gear. We had a couple of very sketchy maps which got us into trouble later. I stand by my earlier statement that trespassing on private land is a bad idea. We got lost and wound up following a river bed to the next road. We had to cross some private land in order to get to the public roadway. Long story short the land owner was not pleased but playing the dumb tourist card worked for us. That card won't work too well in a SHTF situation.


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## texican (Oct 4, 2003)

Walking in a peaceful world is a lot quicker than walking in a warlike world. Similar to hunting, I s'spect. I can do three miles an hour, with a pack, when I put my head down and get serious about putting some country behind me. Hunting? I might make 1/2 mile an hour, if that... I'm stopping every 20, 30' looking for sign, ears, patches, movement. I'd imagine walking thru (trespassing) other's land, when folks are shooting strangers, on site, would be as slow or slower. 

Use the roads immediately, while their still safe... later, crosscountry would be safer, but still hazardous... like Phil above mentioned.


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## Ruby (May 10, 2002)

I haven't read all this, so forgive me if it has already been addressed. But unless you have a gass gussler 95 miles x 2, (there and back) shouldn't take that much gass. I have a Honda CRV and I went about 150 miles Thur. and only used a little over 5 gal. of gas. So if you have a full tank of gas you shouldn't have a problem driving there to pick her up then driving back. 

I would think the only problem that would make you have to walk to go get her would be if the roads or bridges were gone, or an EMP knocked out the elect. on the auto. That's why it's important to keep you gas tank filled.


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