# Fencing - What Did I Do Wrong?



## Aozora (Jan 13, 2014)

I'm trying to put up fences for goats. I'm using 5' tall welded wire (spacing 2"x4") with T posts spaced 9' apart on the advice of my goat mentor. I'm using 6' T posts. I've already run all of the T posts all along a cleared path on my property, which is mostly forest and scrub.

As you can see from the pictures, it's all going wrong. I can't get enough tension on the fence. It's belling out like crazy between the T posts. It also appears I drove the T posts in too far--the wire is extending above the top of the posts. What did I do wrong? Can it be fixed? 

I've already spent upwards of $1500 and a lot of time on this fence, again on the advice of my goat mentor. Please help!

Edited to add: Of course there will be electric as well, but if I can't get the main wire of the fence right I don't think electric will help any. Not even addressing electric yet until/if I can fix the existing problem.


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## collegeboundgal (Jul 17, 2005)

Did you use a fence stretcher before tie'ing the wire? Only pound post in 9-12". Good luck!


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## Alice In TX/MO (May 10, 2002)

1. Wrong kind of fencing for goats. 

2. Are there braces at the ends, corners, and periodically along the fence line?

3. Is the fence line straight? It's very difficult to tighten if it's not straight.

4. T posts come in different lengths. You buy the right one for the height of fence you are planning.


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## Cyngbaeld (May 20, 2004)

You need 6 1/2 ft posts for 5 ft wire and you need twice as many posts as you have and twice as many clips. To tension the wire you should have done it prior to clipping it to the posts. Should have some stout wooden posts every so often that you can pull against to tension it. How are you pulling it?


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## motdaugrnds (Jul 3, 2002)

You're going to find that "welded" wire is going to eventually come loose because goats love to stand on things.

Goats also enjoy rubbing their sides on wire; so they will be pushing on those posts.

As already stated, you need to stretch the wire tight before connecting it to any posts. (I did this with a l-ton come-along. I also used "field fencing".)

Since you've already got those welded panels up, you can save what you've accomplished by putting up at least two horizontal boards "inside" that fencing just the right height for your goats to put their feet on. This will help save your "weld".

You'll soon discover you need more posts than what you've used. (Were I using T-posts, I would not place them farther than 4 ft apart.) Since you already have those T-posts up, I would suggest you purchase some "treated" wooden "fencing" posts to go in between those T-posts.


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## Caprice Acres (Mar 6, 2005)

Welded wire will pop welds when they stand on and push on the fence. Unless you're going to run electric too, that won't hold goats for more than a year or so in the high stress areas. 

I'd go with woven fence.


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## wwubben (Oct 13, 2004)

You can not stretch wire panels.Connect them to the t post so that they can give.The panels expand and shrink with temperature changes.Keep them as straight as you can when you put them up.String your electreic fence so that the panels will not touch them when the panels belly in.You can work with what you have there.


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## Aozora (Jan 13, 2014)

Alright. Hopefully I can return 8 of the 9 sections of welded wire I bought. I'll be able to repurpose the last one. I can also buy more T posts when I swap out from welded to woven wire. Looks like goats will have to wait til next year with this extra cost.

So that I avoid this issue with the woven wire, how do I tension it between the T posts correctly?

When I run electric, I was thinking of using the extenders on the T posts so that the wire is sticking about 1" out from the fence, both for the interior line along the top and the exterior line along the bottom. Is this a good idea, or does the exterior line have to be flush with the fence?


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## sammyd (Mar 11, 2007)

why are you putting a wire outside the fence?
Most insulators are designed to fit on the t-posts one way and not the other. I can't recall seeing any that will work backwards.


you need one of these to stretch
http://www.enasco.com/product/C30676N
but you have plenty of posts, 8-10 foot between is fine and 3 clips per post is OK.


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## Clovers_Clan (Jul 17, 2012)

Its not your installation that is the problem, no matter what you do "a polished turd is still a turd"! So sorry you've gone through all that trouble and expense. Yes, if you can return the rolls, do it! Welded wire is terrible! It breaks easily and can't be stretched or made to conform to uneven ground. Yes, it is cheaper but you get what you pay for, in this case less. I think the only way to salvage it for this project is to add t-posts, as suggested, and cover it with two or three horizontal boards to keep the goats off of it. You could also cover it with cattle/hog panels, although unless you have miniature breed of goat that slip through the gaps, it pointless to even leave the welded wire. If you have a garden it might be more productive to use the open roll there to keep dogs out.

Wether or not you purchase fencing from them(Red Brand offers much cheaper woven wire), Premier offers spot-on recommendations for choosing and installing the right fencing, including electric:
http://www.premier1supplies.com/c/fencing/


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## wwubben (Oct 13, 2004)

Go on the tractor supply site and find the fencing information.It has diagrams and good information for greenhorns.


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## Cyngbaeld (May 20, 2004)

My suggestion is that you use cattle panels for a corral so they are in at night or if you are not home. Then , for the day pasture area, use at least 5, preferably 6 strands of electric wire (not the poly stuff) making sure the lowest strand is no more than 5-6 inches above the ground level. The strands should be 4-6 inches apart. Closer for small goats than for large. That keeps my goats in just fine. You may have to retrieve them from the outside of the fence the first time they are turned out as some will get their heads thru no matter what. An animal shocked behind the eyes will run forward, but one shocked in front of the eyes will back up. After they've been shocked a time or two they won't be trying to go thru. Always test the fence before putting them out in the pasture, both to keep predators out and the goats in.

Woven wire, in my experience, isn't a whole lot better than welded where goats are concerned. Cattle panels are the only non-electric fence option I've found that will consistently keep them in.


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## unregistered41671 (Dec 29, 2009)

Spend some time here

https://www.afence.com/BekaertBrochure.html

http://www.kencove.com/fence/VideoResources.php?t=Product+Videos


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## Aozora (Jan 13, 2014)

There are currently coyotes yodeling outside my window. I want to make sure any and all pasture for my future goats will be absolutely bombproof. I was planning on running an electric wire along the outside to keep the coyotes from trying to dig under or otherwise challenge the fence. I want to use electric anyway on the inside to keep the goats from challenging the fence either, regardless of what it is made of. One or two wires on the inside, one on the outside.

A lot of the fencing suggestions say that it should be all wooden posts and not T posts. That is not feasible on my land--it is forest and scrub and rock on the side of a (admittedly, not steep) hill. It would take a bag of cement and a 4x4 for every post. I can do it in the corners, but not the whole thing. 

Woven wire is not as tall as welded wire. Would a 47" fence even keep my goats safe in a hilly scrub/forest environment?

It's not too late--should I just give up on goats? It seems like my land, its predators, and my setup is not conducive to the kind of fencing that is recommended.


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## unregistered41671 (Dec 29, 2009)

Wood braces and occasional wood post with T posts in between will be fine. Wood helps to prevent goats from rubbing and pushing fences over. I have accomplished the same, using wood braces and T posts and barbed wire on top of the woven wire at the goat height so they wont rub as bad. Put this up after you build your fence or even better, they won't rub on electric if done properly. Electric on both sides will be fine and as far as the height, put up 47" wire then add 1 or 2 strands of barb on top. Electric works well on top instead of barbwire if that is what you want. Do not cut corners on bracing. Look at those vids and read.


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## unregistered41671 (Dec 29, 2009)

I have built fences across mountains, through swamps and across ponds. Your land will be fine for goats and the fence you need. Take your time and don't get in a hurry. Fences should last decades if built properly and maintained.


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## V-NH (Jan 1, 2014)

You definitely don't need to give up. I was a total novice when I put up my fence and it has worked out okay. I used Redbrand field fencing and t-posts placed every 8 feet. My property is all extremely steep hills and forest. I had no idea what I was doing, so I never added corner posts or stretched the fence tight. I added one strand of electric wire around the top and a year later it is still going strong. Does it look perfect? Nope. How many escapes have I had in the past year? One, and only because the fence charger accidentally got turned off.


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## Wendy (May 10, 2002)

I used cattle panels for my whole pasture. The cost was more, but my goats do not get out of it. I put wooden posts every 16' with a t-post in between. I like the panels because there is no stretching to be done. If something happens to a panel I can just remove the one panel & replace it with a new one. I also do not have to worry about running electric fence.


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## arnie (Apr 26, 2012)

don't give up a woodpost every now and then usally at a direction change a board nailed to a tree can be used as a post in the woods ; also a comealong and a 4 foot 2x4 with about 5 nails bent as hooks can be used as a fence stretcher . that type of wire cant be stretched to tight but you want to get it tight enough to get those bellys out . but it can be used as is if you get the electric wires up the goats will not challenge the fence once they learn about what happens from touching the wire .I would keep a close eye on them till they get the lesson about the electric fence. my experience with that type of 2x4wire was that it will not last for more than 5-6 years ( unless I just got some cheep stuff And yours is a better quality ) the electric fence wire is inexpencive so an extra wire on the inside and one on top you could clamp or wire a cheep plastic electric fence post to the tee post every few post as needed to get the extra hight for the hot wire the varmits will learn about the wire as well


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## Clovers_Clan (Jul 17, 2012)

If you have a lot of up and down terrain, getting a tight fence is actually easier. Pull up the slack between the wood posts by hand. Then strategically place your in-between t-posts at the highest and lowest points. Pulling the fence up on the rises and down on the dips will tighten it right up. Having woven wire flush to the ground is as important as the over-all height of the fence. Critters are more likely to crawl under than jump over. Lots of good advice from Possum Belly. Watch plenty of videos before you set to work. If you have any homesteading organizations in your area, get in touch with them. Community work days are a great way to learn new skills. Maybe you can help out a neighbor with a fence before you begin your own project. You'll learn a lot in the process and have another set of helping hands when you need them. There's a learning curve to fencing, the more experience you have up front the more successful you'll be.


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## motdaugrnds (Jul 3, 2002)

If you're returning those welded-wire panels and going to replace it with regular "woven" field fencing going up/down a hill, use CONCRETED IN WOODEN POSTS. Let those posts dry/cure well so, when you start stretching your fencing, those posts will not move. (Trying to stretch fencing from T-post to T-post without those T-posts moving will be quite a chore.) Be prepared to cut that field fencing at an angle depending on the slant of your land. Also, keep that fencing 6 inches off the ground. (If you want to deter predators digging, just lay some tree limbs along the inside/outside of that fending in strategic locations, tying them to the bottom of the fence. You can also run chicken wire on the "outside" of that fencing, connecting it to the fence and letting it lay on top of the ground about 1-1/2 to 2 ft wide.) 

Most fencing will not keep predators out if they are jumpers. Get yourself a good LGD for this and train it to the parameters of your fencing that is holding the animals you want it to guard.

Keep in mind, even field fencing will bend when goats want to stand on it and reach over to nibble on whatever is on the other side. To stop this, just clear all vegetation 2-3 ft away from your fence (on the outside of course) ... OR ... you can run a 2x6 treated board from post to post at the top of that fencing, securing the top of that fencing to that board. Yes, all this takes time; but it works real well!


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## wogglebug (May 22, 2004)

That welded-wire fence is terrible for (just won't withstand) being leaned against or stood upon. If you are putting extra posts in (and you need to if you're going to make that fence work), put them on the OTHER side - the outside of the fence, so they'll withstand pressure from the inside.

I would make your extra posts MUCH longer, so you can string a line of barb along the top, about 4-6" above the mesh.



motdaugrnds said:


> You can also run chicken wire on the "outside" of that fencing, connecting it to the fence and letting it lay on top of the ground about 1-1/2 to 2 ft wide.)


You can often find second-hand, half-rusted wire netting from old fences that have been torn down and replaced, roughly rolled and discarded. This is perfectly adequate for re-use as bottom-lap cover on/from another fence, and may even be obtainable free.


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## stockdogcompany (Jan 25, 2015)

I had posted this on the honey bee forum for bear protection for a specific property, but it can be applied to your situation. It is by far the least expensive, most effective permanent self install-able fence at keeping out predators and keeping in goats. 
I have handled thousands of goats for different people and used to keep a few hundred for training dogs. This stuff is awesome. 


"Permanent electrified high tensile woven wire fence on self insulated poly posts are dandy. You could perimeter fence the house and front pasture for only a buck or so a foot and have a bear and predator resistant fence and be ready to add sheep, geese, or goats to mix if you want. Or just feel better about kids and dogs alone out in the yard.

This stuff 4" off the ground, with a single strand of smooth high tensile hot 8" above it, all electrified is awesome, and cheaper than barbed wire, or even very good quality portable electronet per linear foot. Good against dogs, bears, etc.

http://www.powerflexfence.com/Simply.../w73624-30.htm

http://www.plastic-innovation.com/

I recommend this to all of my predator challenged dog and consulting customers.

Put it on a cracking hot 13+ joule fencer and you'll be very happy."


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