# I expect to see more of this. Good for them!



## nchobbyfarm (Apr 10, 2011)

A new farmers market has opened. 

I am curious though, is this a segregation movement beginning from the black community?

https://www.wral.com/black-farmers-market-draws-crowds-long-lines/19165454/


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## Ziptie (May 16, 2013)

It seems that we are trying to make racism instead of diffusing it.


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## Redlands Okie (Nov 28, 2017)

Always good to see such community programs as farmers markets. The “black” aspect about it seems racist for sure. Not seeing any news about protests over it. Guess the rest of the races in town do not mind the narrow mindedness of it and will support the market. Good for everybody.


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## Ziptie (May 16, 2013)

I am all for more farmers markets. I guess what bothers me the most is the double standard. If a person made a "white farmers market" what do you think would happen? We talk about equality but...then this stuff. Are we all equal or not?


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## GunMonkeyIntl (May 13, 2013)

Ziptie said:


> I am all for more farmers markets. I guess what bothers me the most is the double standard. If a person made a "white farmers market" what do you think would happen? We talk about equality but...then this stuff. Are we all equal or not?


You’re not wrong, but don’t get hung up on that point. 

When you injure a leg, you favor that one for a while.


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## Redlands Okie (Nov 28, 2017)

A couple hundred years ? 

On the other hand we had farmers markets back then also. Just have more of a variety of people selling in them now and thats good.


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## GunMonkeyIntl (May 13, 2013)

The 1960s were a couple hundred years ago?

Man, did I oversleep.


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

Being apart might bring us together.


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## Wolf mom (Mar 8, 2005)

Black Farmers Market? Why throw race in my face?

We need to be inclusive, rather than exclusive.


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

Wolf mom said:


> Black Farmers Market? Why throw race in my face?
> 
> We *need to be inclusive*, rather than exclusive.


That ain't working


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## kinderfeld (Jan 29, 2006)

Ziptie said:


> I am all for more farmers markets. I guess what bothers me the most is the double standard. If a person made a "white farmers market" what do you think would happen? We talk about equality but...then this stuff. Are we all equal or not?


It is a double standard. And, it's nothing new. These same folks are the ones who will complain the most about racism.


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## GunMonkeyIntl (May 13, 2013)

kinderfeld said:


> It is a double standard. And, it's nothing new. These same folks are the ones who will complain the most about racism.


It’s like that for a lot of things. There’s a Miss Black America, Black Entertainment Television.... and now black farmers’ markets.

You’re absolutely right that a “white” version of any of those things would bring on cries of racism... because it would be. It would be exactly as racist as having the “black” versions is.

And that, in my opinion, is the real problem. Having these sort of things just promulgates racism. It doesn’t bother me that there’s no “white” farmers market, because I wouldn’t want one. If I had two to choose from, I probably wouldn’t go to the “white” one because, if the organizers had nothing better to marquee about their market than that, it probably wouldn’t have a whole lot going for it. Same with a “black” farmers market.

But, here’s where it gets interesting: I absolutely would go to an Asian, or African, or Polynesian farmers’ market because I’d be interested in seeing what they had to offer that was different.

There’s a very fine line between celebrating diversity, and promoting racism, and I find it best not to poke at others who’ve defined it as they see it.


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## Hiro (Feb 14, 2016)

GunMonkeyIntl said:


> There’s a very fine line between celebrating diversity, and promoting racism, and I find it best not to poke at others who’ve defined it as they see it.


I must disagree. The line is broad and easily visible to anyone that wants to see it. Some see it and take great advantage of it, others see it and look at it as an obstacle to be overcome and some see it and get angry, and a some can't see it because of that log in their own eye.


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## WigglinGoose (Jun 3, 2020)

I don’t think I’ve ever heard issue with ‘black’ churches though. If they are doing something productive, and aren’t being nasty about it, who cares? Let them have their community. I’m more concerned about the rioting.


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## SLADE (Feb 20, 2004)

WigglinGoose said:


> I don’t think I’ve ever heard issue with ‘black’ churches though. If they are doing something productive, and aren’t being nasty about it,


What's that mean?
Sounds nasty


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## rambler (Jan 20, 2004)

SRSLADE said:


> What's that mean?
> Sounds nasty


It’s the opposite of nasty.

Paul


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## keenataz (Feb 17, 2009)

SRSLADE said:


> What's that mean?
> Sounds nasty


They seem to have fun, from what I have seen.


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## WigglinGoose (Jun 3, 2020)

SRSLADE said:


> What's that mean?
> Sounds nasty


Seems like you’re reaching, but I’ll elaborate. 

Meaning there are places before where nobody complained about certain races only (or being the main focus) getting together. They aren’t doing anything to be outright spiteful to another race (or ‘nasty’), nor claiming superiority but instead just celebrating what those in their race can do. We have a Scottish heritage festival here every year. It’s not seen as putting any other heritage down. Same with any Jewish festival, hispanic celebration, or whatever other grouping people want to associate with.


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## Danaus29 (Sep 12, 2005)

Celebrating heritage is one thing. People of all colors can share the same heritage. Heritage festivals showcase the history of a certain region or country.


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## WigglinGoose (Jun 3, 2020)

Danaus29 said:


> Celebrating heritage is one thing. People of all colors can share the same heritage. Heritage festivals showcase the history of a certain region or country.


Okay, culture then. A lot of these folks come out of all black neighborhoods, and may not know their heritage. It’s their community, let them support them. It isn’t hurting anyone, it seems to only be helping. There are plenty of things to rag on at this time in 2020, but I don’t see why this should be one if them. 

I’ve heard the argument before to allow people to ‘pull themselves up by their bootstraps’, so while they make an honest effort at it, we shouldn’t stand on the side lines nagging about it. Let a good thing be.


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## Danaus29 (Sep 12, 2005)

I just don't see how using race to fight racism works.

Any group can hold a festival or market for any exclusive group that they choose, or at least they should be allowed to do so. But try putting up signs saying "English only spoken here" and see how far that gets you.


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## WigglinGoose (Jun 3, 2020)

Maybe it’s purpose isn’t to fight racism? Maybe it’s just to further their community?

They’re clearly allowing other races in who wants to shop, (white woman standing around in the first photo) they’re just featuring black vendors. Same way I’d expect out of some of the hispanic festivals/markets down in FL.


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## nchobbyfarm (Apr 10, 2011)

WigglinGoose said:


> Maybe it’s purpose isn’t to fight racism? Maybe it’s just to further their community?
> 
> They’re clearly allowing other races in who wants to shop, (white woman standing around in the first photo) they’re just featuring black vendors. Same way I’d expect out of some of the hispanic festivals/markets down in FL.


This has been my contention for years.

If the black community doesn't like ****** getting rich off their money, then spend it with black owned business. If there isn't one, pool what resources they have and do whatever they can. Use any profits to expand or help thy neighbor get his idea going. Help each other prosper. Maybe ****** will start spending his money to you at your profit instead of his if your product is superior.


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## poppy (Feb 21, 2008)

I prefer a black farmer's market over a farmer's black market. Who cares? Farmers markets are bigger here this year than ever around here but we have a few black farmers and everyone sells their produce in the same market.


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## nchobbyfarm (Apr 10, 2011)

Great. Other communities are doing it differently. 

Ain't America great?


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

Wolf mom said:


> Black Farmers Market? *Why* throw race in my face?


https://blacklivesmatter.com/what-we-believe/


> *We are unapologetically Black in our positioning*. In affirming that Black Lives Matter, we need not qualify our position. To love and desire freedom and justice for ourselves is a prerequisite for wanting the same for others.
> 
> *We disrupt the Western-prescribed nuclear family structure* requirement by supporting each other as extended families and “villages” that collectively care for one another, especially our children, to the degree that mothers, parents, and children are comfortable.


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## poppy (Feb 21, 2008)

I do think some of the signs are a bit much but it might work in areas with high black populations. I doubt it would go over well in most areas because such signs would make a lot of white folks feel uncomfortable and unsure if they are welcome and it is never a good idea to alienate the lion's share of potential customers.


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## nchobbyfarm (Apr 10, 2011)

poppy said:


> I do think some of the signs are a bit much but it might work in areas with high black populations. I doubt it would go over well in most areas because such signs would make a lot of white folks feel uncomfortable and unsure if they are welcome and it is never a good idea to alienate the lion's share of potential customers.


Maybe the lion's share of the potential customers aren't necessarily included their business model. Or maybe they are.... that's their issue to overcome.


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

SRSLADE said:


> What's that mean?
> Sounds nasty


Nasty, like the church Jeremiah Wright led


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## poppy (Feb 21, 2008)

nchobbyfarm said:


> Maybe the lion's share of the potential customers aren't necessarily included their business model. Or maybe they are.... that's their issue to overcome.


I see no sign of any business model. Perhaps they know of a black person who was told he was not welcome at a farmer's market because of his 'blackness'. I have never heard of that happening though. It looks like they are pretending to solve a problem that doesn't exist. Anyway, I don't expect to see any sign saying 'your blackness is welcome' on a pole flashing in front of any big car dealerships.


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

poppy said:


> Anyway, I don't expect to see any sign saying 'your blackness is welcome' on a pole flashing in front of any big car dealerships.


We are already seeing that.

*These are the major brands donating to the Black Lives Matter movement*


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## SLADE (Feb 20, 2004)

Lots of hate and fear. Against BLM.


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

SRSLADE said:


> Lots of hate and fear. Against BLM.


I don't support riots and mob rule.


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## SLADE (Feb 20, 2004)

Protest.


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

SRSLADE said:


> Protest.


and riots


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## Ziptie (May 16, 2013)

WigglinGoose said:


> Maybe it’s purpose isn’t to fight racism? Maybe it’s just to further their community?
> 
> They’re clearly allowing other races in who wants to shop, (white woman standing around in the first photo) they’re just featuring black vendors. Same way I’d expect out of some of the hispanic festivals/markets down in FL.


I am all for making a community strong. That is the only way we can get a community to clean up its act by people careing about a place and wanting to make it better. What I don't like and think it is wrong is that only _based on the color of your skin_ can you sell at that market. I thought we were beyond such things. 

As I said before what if I created a white only farmers market, or how many times have a heard that the venders at the farmers markets are not diverse enough and we have to get more people of color in there. 

Then here we have a market purposely devoid of diversity.

Either we force all things to be diverse or none. What is it going to be? If the law is to be colorblind you can't have it both ways.


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

Ziptie said:


> What I don't like and think it is wrong is that only _based on the color of your skin_ can you sell at that market. I thought we were beyond such things.


It feels like how a teenager tests their parents to see what they can get away with.


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## The Paw (May 19, 2006)

Ziptie said:


> I am all for making a community strong. That is the only way we can get a community to clean up its act by people careing about a place and wanting to make it better. What I don't like and think it is wrong is that only _based on the color of your skin_ can you sell at that market. I thought we were beyond such things.
> 
> As I said before what if I created a white only farmers market, or how many times have a heard that the venders at the farmers markets are not diverse enough and we have to get more people of color in there.
> 
> ...


Your point would be more valid if we were starting from a blank slate, where everyone had the same access. But we're not.

Farmer's markets, like everything else, have not been colour blind. I am sure there are many instances where black farmers haven't been allotted a stall, give a crappy stall, or their applications have been "forgotten". Similarly, I am sure there are farmer's markets where black customers get the stink-eye from some reactionary vendors. There is a reason why farmer's markets have not been more diverse, so corrective action is needed.

This is also a great market opportunity, where a lot of people are looking specifically to support black-owned businesses as a means of addressing injustice. While white farmers are excluded from this particular market, they continue to have access to all the other markets that have been operating all along. 

As we take these corrective actions, clumsily at first, we will eventually get to a point where we don't have to mandate them anymore. All markets will be diverse, all customers will be welcome. But we need to go through a process to get there.....


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## Ziptie (May 16, 2013)

So two wrongs make a right?


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

The Paw said:


> I am sure there are many instances where black farmers haven't been allotted a stall, give a crappy stall, or their applications have been "forgotten"


Would that fall under the category of assumption?


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## GTX63 (Dec 13, 2016)

The Paw said:


> Your point would be more valid if we were starting from a blank slate, where everyone had the same access. But we're not.
> Farmer's markets, like everything else, have not been colour blind. I am sure there are many instances where black farmers haven't been allotted a stall, give a crappy stall, or their applications have been "forgotten". Similarly, I am sure there are farmer's markets where black customers get the stink-eye from some reactionary vendors. There is a reason why farmer's markets have not been more diverse, so corrective action is needed.


I grew up poor surrounded by blacks. I live rural now amidst farmers and growers markets. We have longtime friends who I grew up that are black. My wife works with a black woman who farms. So I go from experience.
Can you cite an example where you have witnessed this behavior personally?


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## The Paw (May 19, 2006)

GTX63 said:


> I grew up poor surrounded by blacks. I live rural now amidst farmers and growers markets. We have longtime friends who I grew up that are black. My wife works with a black woman who farms. So I go from experience.
> Can you cite an example where you have witnessed this behavior personally?


To be clear, I am not saying anything about you or your wife. I am also not indicting farmers or farmers market vendors as particularly "bad" for this kind of behaviour. But farmers are still people, and people still act in the way that people do. And some of that is to either intentionally discriminate, or more commonly, to be oblivious to systemic racism.

I'm from Canada, and our struggle with racism (depending on the part of the country you are in) relates more directly to First Nations or indigenous people (Canadian version of Native American). In 40 years of work in and among that community, sometimes as the only white guy in the room, here is what I have observed:

1. People of colour will not always tell you when something unintentionally racist is happening or has come out of your mouth. That's obviously changing at the moment, but people of colour have been swallowing these indignities for a long time, usually because talking about it has usually been deflected, ignored or rationalized.

2. Even though I foolishly prided myself on my awareness to social justice issues and my desire to treat everyone fairly, there were numerous instances where I just didn't "get" what was happening before my eyes. A simple example was going into Costco with a Cree friend, when we got stopped by security and he was asked to show his membership card. (I wasn't asked) I thought it was just a random check, until my friend brought it to my attention. After we left, we stood outside the Costco and observed the security guard for awhile, and the pattern was pretty evident. 

I guess my point is that if we haven't been in those shoes, it is really easy for us not to see the problem. Society makes it easy for us to ignore. Just as in the MeToo movement, I think if someone is telling you they have been negatively impacted, it is better to start listening to them as the experts of their own experience, rather than trying to think up reasons that they are wrong or "too sensitive".


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## GTX63 (Dec 13, 2016)

The Paw said:


> 1. People of colour will not always tell you when something unintentionally racist is happening or has come out of your mouth. That's obviously changing at the moment, but people of colour have been swallowing these indignities for a long time, usually because talking about it has usually been deflected, ignored or rationalized.


I have grown up, worked and lived side by side with blacks for a good portion of my life.
They are human beings first and foremost. That is the disconnect, that they are somehow "different".
My friends are very uncomfortable with well wishers and "supporters" engaging with them in public places. It is awkward to them.
People assuming that they must be for this cause or pro protest and BLM is insulting and condescending.
Life outside of what the news and media isn't always the volatility and oppression that the news makes it; that is why the news avoids it.
I'm not denying racism, I'm denying that only one ethnicity experiences an eyebrow or ignored or mistreatment, and outside of the agitators, not a whole lot of people are speaking from recent experience.
Social posturing has created a theatre that in many areas is inauthentic and phony; however, there are plenty of wannabe actors willing to play a part.


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## JeffreyD (Dec 27, 2006)

SRSLADE said:


> Protest.


Why is it ok for these protesters to burn down and loot black owned businesses? They will never rebuild. Grocery stores close and don't reopen creating a food desert.
Why is it ok forvthem to beat down innocent people? Do black babies lives matter? 
Dont all lives matter?


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## GTX63 (Dec 13, 2016)

Some of these black owned businesses are literally hand to mouth operations. They choose to be their own boss but they may be making the same or less than working for someone else. This means they are on cash terms with their vendors and they may be carrying minimal or no insurance.
If they are unfortunate enough to be in the locale where some BLM prospect gets put down, and their business gets looted and burned, they have little choice but to walk away.
It is ok'd by the media and liberal elitists because in the scheme of things, it is just part of the process.
Useful idiots doing the bidding of influencers who care not for who and what they preach.


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## The Paw (May 19, 2006)

GTX63 said:


> I have grown up, worked and lived side by side with blacks for a good portion of my life.
> They are human beings first and foremost. That is the disconnect, that they are somehow "different".
> My friends are very uncomfortable with well wishers and "supporters" engaging with them in public places. It is awkward to them.
> People assuming that they must be for this cause or pro protest and BLM is insulting and condescending.
> ...


I absolutely agree that it is a mistake to view any racial, ethnic or cultural community as all the same, with the same viewpoints. There is a diversity of opinions within each community, each locality and there is no "one size fits all".

This kind of links to one of the issues I have been trying to walk the razor's edge on. There is a school of thought that racism is the responsibility of the oppressing group to solve. White people have to speak up on this issue, and i agree with this. At the same time, it is a fool's errand to try to speak on someone else's behalf and assume their voice. Sometimes, it is better to be quiet. I think striking the balance is a nuanced thing, and i am grappling with it on a daily basis.


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## Ziptie (May 16, 2013)

The Paw said:


> To be clear, I am not saying anything about you or your wife. I am also not indicting farmers or farmers market vendors as particularly "bad" for this kind of behaviour. But farmers are still people, and people still act in the way that people do. And some of that is to either intentionally discriminate, or more commonly, to be oblivious to systemic racism.
> 
> I'm from Canada, and our struggle with racism (depending on the part of the country you are in) relates more directly to First Nations or indigenous people (Canadian version of Native American). In 40 years of work in and among that community, sometimes as the only white guy in the room, here is what I have observed:
> 
> ...



Yep, it happens. I have been in stores where I was the only white person there and I was getting looks from some of the other customers that I was apparently not welcome there. 

Do you think that maybe the guard knew that you two were together and only had to see one of you at least had a card? 

Or maybe the store has had problems with people of that nationally getting to the checkout and not having a card and being really pissed that they spent all that time shopping and made a huge deal of it? 

Maybe guard was half Cree(or married to one) and know several family members that cause problems. 

For you just to assume that the person thinks his race is superior over the Cree race is a big assumption..don't you think


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## Wanda (Dec 19, 2002)

JeffreyD said:


> Why is it ok for these protesters to burn down and loot black owned businesses? They will never rebuild. Grocery stores close and don't reopen creating a food desert.
> Why is it ok forvthem to beat down innocent people? Do black babies lives matter?
> Dont all lives matter?



Who are all of the folks that are saying it is OK to burn and loot? Likewise who is supporting the beating of innocent people. Maybe you and I live in different countries!


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## JeffreyD (Dec 27, 2006)

Wanda said:


> Who are all of the folks that are saying it is OK to burn and loot? Likewise who is supporting the beating of innocent people. Maybe you and I live in different countries!


Our politicians! Dont watch the news much?


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## Wanda (Dec 19, 2002)

JeffreyD said:


> Our politicians! Dont watch the news much?


Would you mind posting a few quotes from those politicians.


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## JeffreyD (Dec 27, 2006)

Wanda said:


> Would you mind posting a few quotes from those politicians.


Yes! Watch the news. See the politicians defund the police, see them allow "autonomous" areas. What have they done to stop any of the riots or looting? Nothing. They have given these hooligans free rein to destroy our history, even helped them do it. If your so blind as to see what's happening, i cant help you, nor do i want too!


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## GTX63 (Dec 13, 2016)

There are a few members here who seem to believe the incidents are overblown and not as severe as made out to be.
Seattle was a peaceful occupation, the threats and violence are mostly white racists, etc.
I can recall the condoning and looking the other way to the mayhem at least as far back to the Baltimore riots when the Mayor said "It is just stuff."
Regarding the beatings, some here have questioned the legality of self defense by victims and who is it that is actually responsible for the "beatings."


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## GunMonkeyIntl (May 13, 2013)

Danaus29 said:


> Celebrating heritage is one thing. People of all colors can share the same heritage. Heritage festivals showcase the history of a certain region or country.


That’s kind of what I was trying to say. 

I find African culture endlessly intriguing... despite how pants****ingly scared I’ve been most of the time I’ve spent there. 

Having grown up in a “black neighborhood”, of poor white Appalachian stock, I can tell you, firsthand, that there is no such thing as “American black culture”. It’s really either “poor rural” or “poor inner city”-culture. 

Those two cultures are diametrically opposed, but both seem to be assigned to American brown-skinnedness. The telling thing, though, is the “poor” in both of them. That’s something worth discussing. 

I’ve said it here enough times that our perennial sheep-farming Google-slayer is likely to chime in with one of his archetypical “patterns never change”’s, but I’m not askeered to say it again. _We don’t have a race problem. We have a poverty problem._ 

We’re going to continue to piss into the wind as long as we allow the caste discussion in this country continue to be centered around skin color.


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## Hiro (Feb 14, 2016)

The Paw said:


> Your point would be more valid if we were starting from a blank slate, where everyone had the same access. But we're not.
> 
> Farmer's markets, like everything else, have not been colour blind. I am sure there are many instances where black farmers haven't been allotted a stall, give a crappy stall, or their applications have been "forgotten". Similarly, I am sure there are farmer's markets where black customers get the stink-eye from some reactionary vendors. There is a reason why farmer's markets have not been more diverse, so corrective action is needed.
> 
> ...


Just to game this intellectual exercise out:

To make up for past racism, in the interest of equality, we must engage in current racism, so that in the future there won't be any racism.


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## GTX63 (Dec 13, 2016)

GunMonkeyIntl said:


> I’ve said it here enough times that our perennial sheep-farming Google-slayer is likely to chime in with one of his archetypical “patterns never change”’s, but I’m not askeered to say it again. _We don’t have a race problem. We have a poverty problem._


Yep.
This is supposedly about racism. That is all it is supposed to be about. Racism, white privilege and discrimination.
It isn't.
It is class warfare. Engineered, organized, encouraged and sold like a bill of goods. Just a pig with a bow.
All the "Yeah buts" are just about the lies and the preconceived notions and the talking points.
Anyone willing to look past the headlines and look back at the little history that remains can see what is happening.


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## IndyDave (Jul 17, 2017)

SRSLADE said:


> Protest.


Protesters communicate a message. Criminals damage and destroy people, places, and things.

Please keep this distinction in mind before correcting others.


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

Wanda said:


> *Who* are all of the folks that are saying it is OK to burn and loot?


The mayors who told police to "stand down" and let "protesters" do what they want.
The names aren't hard to find.


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## IndyDave (Jul 17, 2017)

Bearfootfarm said:


> The mayors who told police to "stand down" and let "protesters" do what they want.
> The names aren't hard to find.


I will take this excellent point and add that refusing to distinguish between protest (I.e., PEACEFUL assembly) and flagrant criminal activity makes a person complicit.


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

GunMonkeyIntl said:


> I’ve said it here enough times that our perennial sheep-farming Google-slayer is likely to chime in with one of his archetypical “*patterns never change*”’s, but I’m not askeered to say it again. _We don’t have a race problem. We have a poverty problem._


There's no need for me to say anything when it's proven here every day.


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## SLADE (Feb 20, 2004)

GunMonkeyIntl said:


> That’s kind of what I was trying to say.
> 
> I find African culture endlessly intriguing... despite how pantspoopingly scared I’ve been most of the time I’ve spent there.
> 
> ...


We have both.
A race problem and a poverty problem.


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## GTX63 (Dec 13, 2016)

You passed their test. Continue in line.


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## Wolf mom (Mar 8, 2005)

SRSLADE said:


> We have both.
> A race problem and a poverty problem.


Underlying the race and poverty problem, we have a _blame_ problem. People blame others for their situation rather than taking personal responsibility for themselves. Anything else is bullpucky.


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## rambler (Jan 20, 2004)

The Paw said:


> To be clear, I am not saying anything about you or your wife. I am also not indicting farmers or farmers market vendors as particularly "bad" for this kind of behaviour. But farmers are still people, and people still act in the way that people do. And some of that is to either intentionally discriminate, or more commonly, to be oblivious to systemic racism.
> 
> I'm from Canada, and our struggle with racism (depending on the part of the country you are in) relates more directly to First Nations or indigenous people (Canadian version of Native American). In 40 years of work in and among that community, sometimes as the only white guy in the room, here is what I have observed:
> 
> ...


That is nicely written and understandable.

I guess the problem is the current response to racism is to create a whole heap of racism. Perhaps I can call it reverse racism?

somehow I don’t see how that helps?

blacks and Mexicans and Asians are just as racist as white people. It’s a human condition, not a white condition.

if blacks are 11% of the population, their racism doesn’t stand out, or is as oppressive to the fabric of the country, as white racism.

but its there.

and promoting it, black racism, as an answer to white racism just doesn’t seem to be the answer.

black folk talk down to white folk just as badly. But at 11%, it is more ignorable.

that doesn’t make it right.

rap/ hip hop music is terrible. It is very much the exact issue that racism and MeToo stuff is all against.

free pass.

free pass.
Mobs, riots, disrupting everything.

Free pass.

free pass.

free pass.

what a terrible foundation for a social movement.

let’s burn, loot, riot, threaten everything we can find. Let’s destroy every landmark in the nation.

that is something to be looked up to?

blah.

It just drives a deeper wedge between groups.

Most of the problem is poverty, that is the root of the problem.

what BLM is doing is driving more people into poverty with the riots, looting, racism they are promoting.


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

SRSLADE said:


> We have both.
> A race problem and a poverty problem.


I know you and your super troopers of justice warriors consider me a white supremacists, and racists to the core.

You sir, and cadre, are wrong. We DO NOT have a race problem. 

You are wrong about me too. I have hung with the blackest of the black, for parties, dancing and drinking. I was the lone white boy in the otherwise darkest part of town. I spent nights, hung till we all dropped. These guys are hard core. We lived and loved together. We's were fine together. You get what you give. You get what you expect. 

WE DO HAVE A POVERTY PROBLEM. We are all getting played, for the benefit of the gamers.


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## SLADE (Feb 20, 2004)

We have both. We also have a problem of denial.
We deny our past as oppressors of other races.
We deny that we oppress them with poverty.
We deny that we oppress them with sub standard education.
We deny that we oppress them with sub standard medical based on their ability to pay.
We deny that we now treat all poor people as criminals.
We deny.


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

SRSLADE said:


> We have both. We also have a problem of denial.
> We deny our past as oppressors of other races.
> We deny that we oppress them with poverty.
> We deny that we oppress them with sub standard education.
> ...


Speak for ye, not for me


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## SLADE (Feb 20, 2004)

Don't deny


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

SRSLADE said:


> Don't deny


Speak for yourself. I ain't denying anything.


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## GTX63 (Dec 13, 2016)

SRSLADE said:


> We have both. We also have a problem of denial.
> We deny our past as oppressors of other races.
> We deny that we oppress them with poverty.
> We deny that we oppress them with sub standard education.
> ...


Wrong. 
You can use "we" but you can only speak for you.
Your refusal to accept truth over bias is why you continue with the same nonsense.
I have committed no wrong that I need to apologize for.
If your ancestors were awful people and you can't carry the guilt, then say your sorry and torch your house.
.


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## SLADE (Feb 20, 2004)

We deny.


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## JeffreyD (Dec 27, 2006)

SRSLADE said:


> We have both. We also have a problem of denial.
> We deny our past as oppressors of other races.
> We deny that we oppress them with poverty.
> We deny that we oppress them with sub standard education.
> ...


Look in the mirror! I see Democrats doing all the above. Lets start with their denial of their KKK history and slave ownership.


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## SLADE (Feb 20, 2004)

We deny. 4 PASS BLAME.


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## GTX63 (Dec 13, 2016)

SRSLADE said:


> We deny.


Sounds like you are the one doing that.


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## GTX63 (Dec 13, 2016)

What exactly have you done that you should be apologizing for?
Who are they and why aren't you in front of them now with hat in hand instead on pecking on a keyboard?


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## SLADE (Feb 20, 2004)

Number 4


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## GTX63 (Dec 13, 2016)

You be the example.


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

SRSLADE said:


> We deny. 4 PASS BLAME.


I have come to recognize some of the big differences in people like you and people like me.

You want to speak for me. I only want to speak for myself.
You want to tell me what I can do. I don't want to control anyone but me.
You want to control what I say and think. I want to say and think anything I want to, and I want everyone to enjoy the same right.
I want to earn my way, and help those I judge as in real need. You want to force me to help people I judge as not worthy of my help. 

There is no reconciling how you think, and how I think. I am way past thinking there is any possible reconciliation. Now I just want your tyranny, your fascism, brought to an end.


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## SLADE (Feb 20, 2004)

5 Judge others as I don't judge myself.


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

SRSLADE said:


> 5 Judge others as I don't judge myself.


No idea what that means


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## Wolf mom (Mar 8, 2005)

SRSLADE said:


> We have both. We also have a problem of denial.
> We deny our past as oppressors of other races.
> We deny that we oppress them with poverty.
> We deny that we oppress them with sub standard education.
> ...


Bullpucky!

People blame because it's easier to go along than bucking the masses (drinking the cool-aid) and moving past that victim/hate roll to concentrate on striving to better ones self.




HDRider said:


> You want to speak for me. I only want to speak for myself.
> You want to tell me what I can do. I don't want to control anyone but me.
> You want to control what I say and think. I want to say and think anything I want to, and I want everyone to enjoy the same right.
> I want to earn my way, and help those I judge as in real need. You want to force me to help people I judge as not worthy of my help.


AMEN


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## IndyDave (Jul 17, 2017)

SRSLADE said:


> We have both. We also have a problem of denial.
> We deny our past as oppressors of other races.
> We deny that we oppress them with poverty.
> We deny that we oppress them with sub standard education.
> ...


Do you have a mouse in your pocket? You keep saying "we". I have never done any of these things and categorically refuse to accept blame for things I didn't do.


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## Redlands Okie (Nov 28, 2017)

Wolf mom said:


> Underlying the race and poverty problem, we have a _blame_ problem. People blame others for their situation rather than taking personal responsibility for themselves. Anything else is bullpucky.


Well said.


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## Redlands Okie (Nov 28, 2017)

SRSLADE said:


> We have both. We also have a problem of denial.
> We deny our past as oppressors of other races.
> We deny that we oppress them with poverty.
> We deny that we oppress them with sub standard education.
> ...


I think that statement could and should be applied to EVERY race on earth. Lots of history and current actions to support that. For some reason its the current fad to blame whites in the USA.


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## Redlands Okie (Nov 28, 2017)

HDRider said:


> I have come to recognize some of the big differences in people like you and people like me.
> 
> You want to speak for me. I only want to speak for myself.
> You want to tell me what I can do. I don't want to control anyone but me.
> ...


Nicely written


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## nchobbyfarm (Apr 10, 2011)

SRSLADE said:


> We have both. We also have a problem of denial.
> We deny our past as oppressors of other races.
> We deny that we oppress them with poverty.
> We deny that we oppress them with sub standard education.
> ...


Dude.....
Actually I'm speechless.....
I do know I am sure glad I don't suffer from your twisted reasoning. 
Wow!


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## GunMonkeyIntl (May 13, 2013)

SRSLADE said:


> We have both. We also have a problem of denial.
> We deny our past as oppressors of other races.


I don’t actually know a single person that denies that white/western culture has oppressed other races in the past. I do know plenty who conveniently forget that eastern and African culture has the exact same behavior in their past.
So, when you say “we” deny our past as oppressors, who is “we”.

The point at discussion, though, is that what is cast as a racism problem today is actually almost entirely a poverty problem... which you prove out below:


SRSLADE said:


> We deny that we oppress them with poverty.


The US doesn’t oppress anyone “with poverty”. The reality is that many Americans live in poverty, but no one is pushed into poverty due to their race.



SRSLADE said:


> We deny that we oppress them with sub standard education.


Dark brown folks aren’t denied a better education because of their skin tone. Poor people are often denied a better education because they are poor. Many dark brown folks are poor.



SRSLADE said:


> We deny that we oppress them with sub standard medical based on their ability to pay.


Same as the last one; health care isn’t free, and it’s (shocker) the poor who have less than ideal healthcare, strictly as a function of economics.



SRSLADE said:


> We deny that we now treat all poor people as criminals.


Poor people are more prone to crime- another function of economics.



SRSLADE said:


> We deny.


I don’t deny anything that is true.
Inherent racism in Americans had been reduced to the lowest levels that could reasonably be expected, in the 90s and 2000s. It’s seeing a resurgence now, but racism was as close to gone as it’s ever likely to be.

There comes a point where you can’t expect people to be any more rational than they are, and accept that some are just always going to judge others on stupid things like skin tone.

If you really want to improve the issues that an inordinate number of dark brown folks experience, namely the excessive crime, poor primary education, and poor healthcare, work on the economic factors.

Telling yourself, and anyone else, that the obstacles they face is because of their minority skin tone is just you up for disappointment, and them up for failure.


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## SLADE (Feb 20, 2004)

GunMonkeyIntl said:


> I don’t actually know a single person that denies that white/western culture has oppressed other races in the past. I do know plenty who conveniently forget that eastern and African culture has the exact same behavior in their past.
> So, when you say “we” deny our past as oppressors, who is “we”.
> 
> The point at discussion, though, is that what is cast as a racism problem today is actually almost entirely a poverty problem... which you prove out below:
> ...


I never mentioned skin color. Try not to get get hung up on that.


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

Wolf mom said:


> Underlying the race and poverty problem, we have a _blame_ problem. People blame others for their situation rather than taking personal responsibility for themselves. Anything else is bullpucky.


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

Bearfootfarm said:


> View attachment 89262
> View attachment 89262
> View attachment 89262
> View attachment 89262
> View attachment 89262


Only one set of hands is clapping now


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

SRSLADE said:


> I never mentioned skin color. Try not to get get hung up on that.


Sounds like denial.


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

HDRider said:


> Only one set of hands is clapping now


On the old software I could "drag and drop" GIF files once, then "insert" multiple times.
On this new software it seems I have to "drag and drop" multiple times and it inserts automatically.

I'm liking most of it so far though.

Especially the "Dark Mode".
It's much easier on the eyes.


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