# Building permits?



## lvshrs (Nov 7, 2004)

Hope someone can clarify some things for me...

We are very excited we are now the proud owners of LAND! :dance: 

My question is -Can someone clarify building permits in general? 


I know absolutely nothing about them so I really don't know what to ask so if someone could direct me to where I need to go to start that would be great!


We purchased a little over an acre south of Abilene, Texas it already has a septic system,water,elec. and telephone lines run under ground. It also has a steel carport that has a roof and one wall with a small storage lean-to.

We are thinking of turning a 14x30 storage building into living quarters until we can start building a house a little at a time. The building would then become a studio/workshop for DH once the house was built.


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## CGUARDSMAN (Dec 28, 2006)

call the county offices of the county the land is in they will be able to tell you all you need for building there.


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## LagoVistaFarm (Mar 2, 2006)

Your zoning has an effect usually on the process and regulations.


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## Maura (Jun 6, 2004)

You will probably need a permit for the house. If you are using a contractor, let him pull the permit. Sometimes a do it yourselfer will get jerked around, whereas a contractor won't. When the permit for the house is pulled, ask about updating/putting electrical into the existing "shed". In our township, you cannot live in one building (or a mobile home) while you are building a second home. You have to have two seperate lots. If you are building a little at a time, somebody is going to know you are there. Call the township office and ask some "what if" questions. They may not let you do what you want to. Then again, they may, but you want to know if everything you want to do is legal or you may be paying fines.


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## texican (Oct 4, 2003)

If you're outside of the city limits, you probably don't need any permits. This is Texas.  This part of Texas, they made it a rule that you're supposed to "tell" the tax boys, if you're putting in a commercial establishment.

Now... if you "ask", I'm sure you'll find some bureaucrat willing to sell you one.

I built my first home, w/o permit. Current home project, no permit.

Now if you're getting someone else to build the home, the bankers gonna want some paperwork.


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## snv1492 (Jun 9, 2007)

I don't know how they do things in Texas, but in most other places you will generally need permits if you want to insure the house when it is finished. Also, it can be difficult to sell it if it was never permitted, unless the buyer only cares about the land.

The larger your tract of land is and the further away from a city, the more autonomy you tend to have over what you put on it. Not because there aren't any laws, it's just that no one really cares enough to enforce them...

Until you aggravate the wrong person.


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## Danaus29 (Sep 12, 2005)

First you have to find out what jurisdiction you are in, city, township, county, then get the zoning information for each one. In Ohio there are different requirements for each jurisdiction, i.e., in the townships you don't need a permit to replace or re-peak your roof. In Columbus you have to have a permit to reshingle. The zoning office should have a zoning regulation book that you can purchase. It would save you a lot of time and frustration to buy the book.


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## doohap (Feb 23, 2003)

texican said:


> If you're outside of the city limits, you probably don't need any permits. This is Texas. ...


We're building in East Texas, Cass County. There, if you are on more than 10 acres you basically don't need any permits. However, if you are financing your construction, your bank/finance company will probably require permits.

That said, we are following all national/state codes as we build and will be having everything inspected just in case, God forbid, we ever have to sell in the future. We would not want problems to arise that would hinder such a sale.

Peace, smiles and good luck,
doohap


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## mink (Feb 10, 2005)

up here in new york you need a permit to do just about anything. its mostly just a money grab for the towns and county. once you start a building inspector will come and inspect the job in different steps to see if you comply with the building codes........mink


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## lvshrs (Nov 7, 2004)

Thanks for the replies!

Now that I have a place to start I can bug them with plenty of "What if...?" questions.

We are still in the "Well what if we did XY or Z?" planning and wanted to have all the facts for each option before we commit to one.


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## annethcz (Sep 25, 2004)

mink said:


> up here in new york you need a permit to do just about anything. its mostly just a money grab for the towns and county. once you start a building inspector will come and inspect the job in different steps to see if you comply with the building codes........mink


MN too. One of the joys of living in a highly regulated state. We're building a deck, and it's going to cost more than $300 for the permits- we need to get permits from the township and from the county. We know of someone who recently was fined $500 for not getting the county permit- so we decided to toe the line and follow the guidelines.


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## bill not in oh (Jul 27, 2004)

Stephanie - Start at your local government level. They should be able (willing could be another issue) to guide you through the permitting process and provide you with a current set of zoning regulations for your project. Here in my part of Ohio (and keep in mind that I'm registered as a farm with the state), if I build a small outbuilding that will be dedicated to STRICTLY agricultural purposes only (don't store your lawnmower in it), I have to pull a permit from our township, however there is no permit fee and the zoning regulations go out the window - I can place it on my property line or wherever I want. As long as it doesn't exceed a maximum square footage (I forget what that is) the county could care less. If my neighbor tried that they'd fine him. Since you're building a residence I would suspect that in or near Abilene that there will be fairly standard permitting and zoning regulations in force, especially if there is any development in the area.

But start with your local gov. entity which may be the county if your new property is outside of the Abilene city limits. Whatever else you do or don't do, build to the national Uniform Building Code at a minimum. These are the standards acceptable in most states/communities. There may be some variations locally for instance in California because of the threat of earthquake or coastal Florida because of the hurricane frequency, but for general mechanical (electric, HVAC, plumbing) systems, and things like window height, stairs, railings (the list is seemingly endless) they will be the likely standard. And get the inspections! You'll be glad you did....


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## seedspreader (Oct 18, 2004)

^ and that's coming from a guy who lives in a county with one of the toughest building codes in all of Ohio... according to contractors.


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## SteveD(TX) (May 14, 2002)

Listen to Texican. People in other states are quite astonished when I tell them that for the most part, building permits and inspections are generally not required unless you are within the city limits of an incorporated city or town.

I got lots of advice here and on other sites about a major electrical project at my place in the country. People from other states advised me to do this or do that to satisfy the inspector. When I explained there would be no inspector, they didn't believe me.


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## bill not in oh (Jul 27, 2004)

Here's a phone # to the Taylor County offices regarding building permits in a (please note) Rural Area

Building Permits(Rural Area) Environmental 325-674-1393


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## Mike in Ohio (Oct 29, 2002)

snv1492 said:


> I don't know how they do things in Texas, but in most other places you will generally need permits if you want to insure the house when it is finished. Also, it can be difficult to sell it if it was never permitted, unless the buyer only cares about the land.
> 
> The larger your tract of land is and the further away from a city, the more autonomy you tend to have over what you put on it. Not because there aren't any laws, it's just that no one really cares enough to enforce them...
> 
> Until you aggravate the wrong person.



Stuff and nonsense. I live in Union Township, Carroll County Ohio...... There is no zoning and the only 2 permits you need are:

1) For a drive to get a street number. If you don't want to get a street number then don't apply for a permit. 

2) To install septic. You need a permit from the County Board of Health.

3) If you want to drill a well it must be registered with the state (technically not a permit).

We have had no problems with getting insurance.

Mike


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## Danaus29 (Sep 12, 2005)

There is zoning in ALL of Ohio. State zoning laws still need to be followed as well as National Electric code and state board of health regulations. Just because your township/county doesn't enforce the zoning doesn't mean it doesn't exist. You really can't put a building on the property line.


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## lvshrs (Nov 7, 2004)

More great info! I love this forum! :bow:


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## cfabe (Feb 27, 2005)

Danaus29 said:


> There is zoning in ALL of Ohio. State zoning laws still need to be followed as well as National Electric code and state board of health regulations. Just because your township/county doesn't enforce the zoning doesn't mean it doesn't exist. You really can't put a building on the property line.


No, there is not zoning in all of ohio. Each city/village/township has the power to pass and enforce a zoning ordinance or resolution, but not all of them do. If your locality hasn't passed a zoning ordinance or resolution, there is NO zoning for that area. Counties and the state cannot pass zoning ordinances, but some counties do work with the townships and "suggest" particular zoning or even go so far as to prepare a model zoning resolution for the townships to use, but the decicsion remains with the locality. 

As far as building codes, those are usually handled by the city/village or by the county in a township area. Ohio does publish a model building code but there are local variations on it.


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## Mike in Ohio (Oct 29, 2002)

Danaus29 said:


> There is zoning in ALL of Ohio. State zoning laws still need to be followed as well as National Electric code and state board of health regulations. Just because your township/county doesn't enforce the zoning doesn't mean it doesn't exist. You really can't put a building on the property line.


You are absolutely incorrect. Here is a citation from Ohio State University:

http://ohioline.osu.edu/cd-fact/1265.html


Quote:

_"Though zoning is widespread in Ohio, communities are not required to have zoning. Indeed, many communities have no zoning regulations in force, especially in southern and eastern Ohio. "_

Please provide a citation supporting your assertion that Ohio has zoning laws that apply statewide and are mandatory statewide.


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## bill not in oh (Jul 27, 2004)

From the Ohio Revised Code:

303.02 County commissioners may regulate building and land use in unincorporated territory.

(A) Except as otherwise provided in this section, in the interest of the public health and safety, the board of county commissioners may regulate by resolution, in accordance with a comprehensive plan, the location, height, bulk, number of stories, and size of buildings and other structures, including tents, cabins, and trailer coaches, percentages of lot areas that may be occupied, *set back building lines*, sizes of yards, courts, and other open spaces, the density of population, the uses of buildings and other structures, including tents, cabins, and trailer coaches, and the uses of land for trade, industry, residence, recreation, or other purposes in the unincorporated territory of the county. Except as otherwise provided in this section, in the interest of the public convenience, comfort, prosperity, or general welfare, the board, by resolution, in accordance with a comprehensive plan, may regulate the location of, set back lines for, and the uses of buildings and other structures, including tents, cabins, and trailer coaches, and the uses of land for trade, industry, residence, recreation, or other purposes in the unincorporated territory of the county, and may establish reasonable landscaping standards and architectural standards excluding exterior building materials in the unincorporated territory of the county. Except as otherwise provided in this section, in the interest of the public convenience, comfort, prosperity, or general welfare, the board may regulate by resolution, in accordance with a comprehensive plan, for nonresidential property only, the height, bulk, number of stories, and size of buildings and other structures, including tents, cabins, and trailer coaches, percentages of lot areas that may be occupied, sizes of yards, courts, and other open spaces, and the density of population in the unincorporated territory of the county. For all these purposes, the board may divide all or any part of the unincorporated territory of the county into districts or zones of such number, shape, and area as the board determines. All such regulations shall be uniform for each class or kind of building or other structure or use throughout any district or zone, but the regulations in one district or zone may differ from those in other districts or zones.

For any activities permitted and regulated under Chapter 1513. or 1514. of the Revised Code and any related processing activities, the board of county commissioners may regulate under the authority conferred by this section only in the interest of public health or safety. _[These two chapters regulate mining activities]_

(B) A board of county commissioners that pursuant to this chapter regulates adult entertainment establishments, as defined in section 2907.39 of the Revised Code, may modify its administrative zoning procedures with regard to adult entertainment establishments as the board determines necessary to ensure that the procedures comply with all applicable constitutional requirements.

Effective Date: 09-17-1957; 11-05-2004; 05-06-2004; 05-27-2005; 08-17-2006


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## Dreams30 (Dec 12, 2003)

SteveD(TX) said:


> Listen to Texican. People in other states are quite astonished when I tell them that for the most part, building permits and inspections are generally not required unless you are within the city limits of an incorporated city or town.
> 
> I got lots of advice here and on other sites about a major electrical project at my place in the country. People from other states advised me to do this or do that to satisfy the inspector. When I explained there would be no inspector, they didn't believe me.


Absolutely! We went through that too.

I think sometimes that people just WANT everyone to be regulated. 

I sure hope they stay out of Texas.


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## snv1492 (Jun 9, 2007)

Mike in Ohio said:


> Stuff and nonsense. I live in Union Township, Carroll County Ohio......


Sorry, I didn't realize the "Union Township of Carroll County, Ohio" constituted most other places. Unfortunately, neither do most other places, which I guess is why most of them do in fact have some sort of permitting requirements.


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## Scrounger (Jan 6, 2007)

My county in Nebraska is "zoned", sort of. We have to get a permit to do anything - if the structure is "anchored to the ground or has a foundation". So, if you build a doghouse that is on a cement slab and bolted to it, you have to get a permit. There are no "codes", but you have to get a "zoning permit". I built a 26x15 goat shed last year. I used salvaged materials and spent $18 for screws and such. The piece of paper giving me permission to build it cost $25 - go figure.


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## Mike in Ohio (Oct 29, 2002)

snv1492 said:


> Sorry, I didn't realize the "Union Township of Carroll County, Ohio" constituted most other places. Unfortunately, neither do most other places, which I guess is why most of them do in fact have some sort of permitting requirements.



You are asserting an opinion, not a fact. If it is a fact, please provide supporting citations and/or references. By land area, most of Ohio does not have zoning. 

Secondly, requiring permits is not the same as zoning. The state of Ohio requires you to get a permit for a well from your county health department. This is to allow the state to track where wells are being drilled. That is different than zoning.

I'd be willing to bet (but not a lot) that the majority of the land area in the United States does not have zoning regulations. Conversely, most of the population of the United States probably lives in zoned (urban/suburban) areas.

The original poster asked about required permits and a raft of people jumped in yapping about zoning. Permits do not equal zoning and zoning does not automatically mean permits.

Mike


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## crafty2002 (Aug 23, 2006)

Ivehrs, while there may or may not be building codes in your part of this world, I would suggest spend $35.00 for a CABO ONE and TWO FAMILY DWELLING CODE book and reading it very well before building your home. Reason being is it is written with the weather of all 50 states concidered. 
Way up north, the two main conciderations are the footing/frost line, and the snowload. 
Down south they are the footing, to make sure your home doesn't just sink, and wind load. 
Where ever you live, the book has the codes for each area in the charts. Maybe some people don't care about building codes. :shrug: My house was built before building codes were ever invented, but I sure wish the builder had used deeper floor joist, not that I think they will fail, but because I get tire of things falling off the shelves when the dog bounces across the floor. 
As a contractor I knew where you actually wanted to go past the building codes to make a home like it should be. There aren't any corners in this code book that I would cut, whether or not I had to build according to them or not. 
It is like the man said. You get what you pay for. It doesn't matter whether
you are going to need to pass an inspection or not. What matters is whether or not it will stay there and allow you to enjoy it. 

I wish they would take the zoning laws and stick them where the sun don't shine, but as far as the code book goes, I feel it is a great help to anyone building a home. It gives you a super guideline on where to start.
I am going to give you an example of what the book holds from page 314. 

...........................................Table No. 6-A
.........................ALLOWABLE SPANS FOR FLOOR JOISTS

JOIST SPACING,,,,,,, Modulas of Elastisity, "E" in 1,000,000 psi.
Now on page 356, Table No. 6/7A tells you what this is for every type of wood that is used in the construction industry across America. 
A spruce pine 2 x has a mod., of 1.3 million psi. A southern yellow pine has
1.6.
Exactly what does that mean to a person that has no idea what the h*** they are talking about? To be 100% truthful to you, I have no idea what that means. 
But I do know that when this book says don't put in a floor system larger than 10' 0" on 16" centers, with 2 x 6 spruce, don't do it. 
If it were southern yellow pine, you could go 10' 9" and have the same strength floor. 
If you are using Douglas Fir yo0u could go 11' 2".
Now that is for bedrooms. For the living areas that will carry the most loads, with the most people in it at one time, it all gets shorter. 
The charts go all the way up to 2 x 12's and with SYP you could go all the way up to 24' 2" if you put them on 12" centers. 
There is the same type charts for the ceiling joist and rafters.
There are chapters on heating and electrical. 

It will give you the best way to spend your money and know it will stay there for years. 
Sure. You can always cut corners. But those corners always seems to find a way to come back and bite you on the A double S.

Of course, this is JMHO.
Dennis


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## quietstar (Dec 11, 2002)

Stephanie...Texas is mostly populated by very independent citizens that wouldn't put up with the intrusive bossing around that is the standard in many other states. check it out with neighbors or local folks in the building business. I'll bet you a Buckeye you wont need any permits outside city limits. Abilene is a very friendly place. Please check your PM...Glen


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## steader (Dec 1, 2006)

lvshrs, we're starting the same processes as you and it has been interesting. Being the landowner who wants to build the structure himself it seems that the city and county officials I've had discussions with are uninformed as to the laws in the county and make wild guesses when unsure instead of saying they don't know. Case in point, I called the city building inspector for the closest major city (<5000) to the property we have a contract on and he stated that even though we didn't need a building permit he was pretty sure we had to have an electrical and plumbing inspector to 'sign off' for that structure to be legal? After further discussion I asked him if he could point me to the law/regulations for that county where that was a requirement and he said he didn't know but was pretty sure. Well after being bounced around 3 other government offices I finally found someone who knew what they were talking about, a private inspection company for an adjacent county, who was extremely helpful and told me what he knew and didn't know. If it wasn't for meeting him I would have thought my 3 hours of calls and discussions prior to that would have been a total waste of time.

We're taking the approach similar to doohap as we realize we will probably sell at some point and want to make our property as appealing to sellers as possible as well as minimizing the new owners issues with insurance and/or mortgage issues. texican, SteveD(TX), doohap and others can jump in but from what I've been able to gather if permits are not required then it really comes down to what the inspector catches when you're selling your place as far as the deal being closed. However there seems to be some inconsistencies as what constitutes insurability and the ability to mortgage the structure so we're waiting for a call back from our insurance company to discuss what are their requirements for insuring a new structure in a county that doesn't require building permits. Unfortunately it is a major, conventional insurer so I'm guessing they'll have no clue as they don't deal with that type of insurance and we'll be starting the hunt for a new insurer.

We're looking at doing this for cash so the issue of being able to mortgage and insure it is a non-issue for us but we're also looking to the future when that might be a necessary for someone else purchasing our property.


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## snv1492 (Jun 9, 2007)

Mike in Ohio said:


> You are asserting an opinion, not a fact. If it is a fact, please provide supporting citations and/or references. By land area, most of Ohio does not have zoning.
> 
> Secondly, requiring permits is not the same as zoning. The state of Ohio requires you to get a permit for a well from your county health department. This is to allow the state to track where wells are being drilled. That is different than zoning.
> 
> ...


I'm not talking about zoning, and never have. I have been talking about permits since the beginning. Appearenlty you like to create arguments where there are none.


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## Scrounger (Jan 6, 2007)

Mike in Ohio said:


> Permits do not equal zoning and zoning does not automatically mean permits.
> 
> Mike


It would depend on the way (or reason) the county is zoned. In my particular case - we don't have "Building Permits" persee, but the "zoning permits" accomplish the same thing. If we want to build ANYTHING (or move anything) that is anchored to the ground, we must get a permit. The "given" reason for the zoning program is to keep large feedlots/hog operations/chicken operations from sprouting whereever they want to. The end result is that the county can keep an eye on what you build better and charge you the "appropriate" taxes. So far, rural areas are not zoned for building codes on non dwelling structures (other than the appropriate utilities codes), but that will probably change in the near future.
When it's all said and done - it would be a good thing for the original poster to go to their county offices and ask what they need to ask.


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## Danaus29 (Sep 12, 2005)

Counties and townships cannot exceed state and federal law:

http://codes.ohio.gov/orc/504.04

(A) A township that adopts a limited home rule government may do all of the following by resolution, provided that any of these resolutions, other than a resolution to supply water or sewer services in accordance with sections 504.18 to 504.20 of the Revised Code, may be enforced only by the imposition of civil fines as authorized in this chapter:
(1) Exercise all powers of local self-government within the unincorporated area of the township, other than powers that are in conflict with general laws, except that the township shall comply with the requirements and prohibitions of this chapter, and shall enact no taxes other than those authorized by general law, and except that no resolution adopted pursuant to this chapter shall encroach upon the powers, duties, and privileges of elected township officers or change, alter, combine, eliminate, or otherwise modify the form or structure of the township government unless the change is required or permitted by this chapter;
(2) Adopt and enforce within the unincorporated area of the township local police, sanitary, and other similar regulations that are not in conflict with general laws or otherwise prohibited by division (B) of this section;
(3) Supply water and sewer services to users within the unincorporated area of the township in accordance with sections 504.18 to 504.20 of the Revised Code;
(4) Adopt and enforce within the unincorporated area of the township any resolution of a type described in section 503.52 of the Revised Code.
(B) No resolution adopted pursuant to this chapter shall do any of the following:
(1) Create a criminal offense or impose criminal penalties, except as authorized by division (A) of this section or by section 503.52 of the Revised Code;
(2) Impose civil fines other than as authorized by this chapter;
(3) Establish or revise subdivision regulations, road construction standards, urban sediment rules, or storm water and drainage regulations, except as provided in section 504.21 of the Revised Code;
(4) Establish or revise building standards, building codes, and other standard codes except as provided in section 504.13 of the Revised Code;
(5) Increase, decrease, or otherwise alter the powers or duties of a township under any other chapter of the Revised Code pertaining to agriculture or the conservation or development of natural resources;
(6) Establish regulations affecting hunting, trapping, fishing, or the possession, use, or sale of firearms;
(7) Establish or revise water or sewer regulations, except in accordance with section 504.18, 504.19, or 504.21 of the Revised Code.
Nothing in this chapter shall be construed as affecting the powers of counties with regard to the subjects listed in divisions (B)(3) to (5) of this section.
(C) Under a limited home rule government, all officers shall have the qualifications, and be nominated, elected, or appointed, as provided in Chapter 505. of the Revised Code, except that the board of township trustees shall appoint a full-time or part-time law director pursuant to section 504.15 of the Revised Code, and except that a five-member board of township trustees approved for the township before September 26, 2003, shall continue to serve as the legislative authority with successive members serving for four-year terms of office until a termination of a limited home rule government under section 504.03 of the Revised Code.
(D) In case of conflict between resolutions enacted by a board of township trustees and municipal ordinances or resolutions, the ordinance or resolution enacted by the municipal corporation prevails. In case of conflict between resolutions enacted by a board of township trustees and any county resolution, the resolution enacted by the board of township trustees prevails.

Your township may not prohibit installing and using an outhouse, but the state sure does. Code requiring a waste permit:
http://codes.ohio.gov/orc/3709.091


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## lvshrs (Nov 7, 2004)

WOW! I'm gone for a few days and this thread went crazy!  

Texican, SteveD, quietstar...THANK YOU y'all have the right of it! I've been pestering everybody in the county with "what if?" questions and if you are outside the city limits there is very little required other than the septic permit which is already in so no problems there. 

We are buying/borrowing the books for code standards and will use that as our standard for wiring and plumbing...probably build with higher standards than most "contractors".


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