# Help! CAE positive Goats



## erealpixie (Sep 20, 2016)

Hello everyone. I was just notified that our two AGDA nubian goats (1 doe in milk and 1 doeling) we bought via craigslist tested positive for CAE, they are both from the same farm (the lady runs an animal welfare approved facility and drilled us with questions before purchase). We also have another lamancha goat that is currently in milk and an east fresian/icelandic ewe(from an unrelated farm). We have grown to love them as they have been with us for about a month now but the rest of our animals tested negative. I'm not sure what to do I would hate to get rid of them but we bought them to breed/milk. Any thoughts, this is devastating. I am considering contacting the lady we bought them from, although I am sure she will fight giving us our money back and not sure I want to let go of the girls. Any thoughts? Thank you!


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## mzgarden (Mar 16, 2012)

I'm sure others will jump in and give more/better advice but the first thing I would do is separate them from the rest of your animals. Then I would have them retested to make sure you didn't get a false positive. There is more than one test for CAE, testing for antibody exposure. For something like this, more than one positive test is needed, but the animals need to be isolated. 
Also, you need to call the person you got them from and let them know they tested positive.


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## erealpixie (Sep 20, 2016)

Thanks Mzgarden for your reply. We currently have a three stall barn but there are mesh like fences indoor separating each stall inside so they can see into each stall (no walls). Do you think it is enough to separate them to a separate stall in the same barn? Also they are in the same pasture together during the day, I am not sure where we could move them to as this is the only fenced in area. :/


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## Caprice Acres (Mar 6, 2005)

Unfortunately if you bought them without test results, then that's how you bought them and you may have to live with the consequences. If the seller advertised them as CAE free, then that may be grounds to ask for your money back DEPENDING on the situation of how you raised them and potential exposure since purchase. This may mean getting some of your money back and keeping them, returning them, getting replacements - perhaps you can work something out. 

First if I were you, I'd get all the facts about what keeping CAE positive animals around is all about, and your goals with them. Isolation is a good idea. CAE is a manageable disease. BUT - You may or may not want to go through the trouble of managing it and that is OK. They are livestock, and they may not be valuable enough to put in the effort! That is for you to decide.

Though many variants of CAE do NOT seem to easily transmit horizontally, some of them DO, through normal daily contact. Some herds will have it spread rampantly, others may keep a positive or two in with a larger group and never have it spread for years and years horizontally or vertically due to good management. Thus, isolation is important. I would hand breed them to the best bucks you can use/find, and plan on being present for births when due. (breed them to suit your schedule so you CAN be present!) I'd also tape teats when they come due. I'd try to pull them immediately at birth without any interaction with their dams, raise any keeper quality kids in isolation from the rest of the herd. Raise on strict CAE prevention and test at 6 months of age. You will have to handle the milk separately for bottle raising any replacement kids. You will not want lactating positives in with dam raising adults. The milk is still fine for human and other livestock feeding (NOT bum lambs though - CAE and OPP can coinfect the two species). BUT you now have to get 2 milking groups into the parlor and keep milk separate for feeding. 

You CAN also keep positive does as brood animals only, dry them up after kidding. I'd do this for EXTREMELY valuable breeding stock, kept in isolation and only kept for brood purposes only - that makes them less maintenance and you could even potentially get 2 kid crops/year out of well managed does that are not milked otherwise. More likely, I'd breed them to some amazing bucks and keep daughters/sons that are bottle raised and test negative, then cull/slaughter the dams or sell to other breeders as soon as their genetics were well represented. Of course buyers would be INFORMED of their status - if they are too genetically valuable otherwise to slaughter which would be first priority. You could even do embryo collection on positive does and get lots of valuable embryos for immediate implantation or long term storage. These are then laproscopically inserted into recipient dams, and lots of kids to choose from. Or, if these does are not valuable, you may be able to get your money back taking them to a slaughterhouse for meat, filling your own freezer, maintaining for a year just long enough to get replacement offspring etc. It's dynamic and depends on your resources and desire to go through all the extra work for animals that, OTHERWISE could be working "FOR" you instead of you working for them. They're livestock. 

The CAE is a reasonably good test, highly sensitive and specific past about 6 months of age due to the nature of the test and the type of infectious process. Kids weaned later may test positive for longer IF they are fed PASTEURIZED (killed CAE) milk for longer than 8-12 weeks of age due to continued immune response to the stimulus of dead CAE and subsequent persistence of antibodies for several months after exposure - so take raising and potential milk exposure into account when INTERPRETING results. 

But all tests can be error prone. Considering the history and both of them came back positive, it's concerning. A test is NEVER INTERPRETED as a single entity. But, it is also inexpensive so... If you didn't already, retest. If you used somewhere that is NOT an accredited testing facility, go with an accredited testing facility such as WADDL, MSU DCPAH etc. If accredited, they often will have AAVDL accreditation on their website. Essentially, this means they comply to strict accreditation regulations that ensure their tests are performed consistently, accurately, using proper media, resources, and training every time to remove as much human error as is possible. At some point, you must decide how you're going to manage them. I always suggest TREAT THEM AS POSITIVE. You can still manage the disease just fine this way, whereas if you assume they're negative and are wrong and manage them as such, you're much less likely to be able to control the disease. Test are TOOLS to make INFORMED CHOICES from. Each persons' own goals and situation may be drastically different.


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## MDKatie (Dec 13, 2010)

I'm fairly more laid back about CAE, although I wouldn't let a positive doe raise any of her kids unless they were strictly slaughter kids. 

The very first doe I bought (as an adult, before I knew about CAE) tested positive, and I was also devastated at first. She was already bred before I had her tested for CAE, so when she kidded I took her kids immediately. Fed them cow colostrum (from a Johnnes negative herd) and bottle fed them replacer. I bred that doe probably 4 or 5 more years before I retired her. She has always been asymptomatic, and remains so now at 9 years old. 

I've never missed a kidding, and I've tested every daughter of hers and they have all been negative. Now I only have 2 does, her and her daughter. Her daughter has lived with her since weaning on, and she always tests negative. 

I don't worry about horizontal transmission, but that's not to say it's impossible. I just find for my goals with my goats, I don't worry about it. I'm all but done with dairy goats at this time in my life anyways, so they're more like pasture pets at this point. 

I guess what I'm trying to say is it's not the end of the world. If you decide to breed them to get replacement does, then do that but make sure to be there for the kidding. I'm confident you'll do fine raising the kids on CAE prevention, and then you can start over with negative goats. 

Or, if you'd rather not got through the hassle of dealing with CAE, cull these goats now and find someone selling negative goats to start over.


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## barnbilder (Jul 1, 2005)

Don't forget to make sure that a positive doe does not give birth in a stall with a negative doe that is either highly maternal, just kidded, or near kidding. Nothing like having one lick birth fluids and get CAE after you went through a lot of trouble to prevent the spread.


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## Lady89 (Feb 22, 2014)

This is not what you want to hear but if it were me i would have them tested again and if the 2nd test comes back positive i would slaughter. i just dont have the time or patience to do the extra work needed to prevent both vertical and horizontall infection spread


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## lemon (Jul 9, 2012)

I've dealt with it. Not the end of the world. Other disease's are scarier. It's more work cause you have to catch kids but I've had both positive and negative does. if you don't want the extra work then sell the does with disclosure. If you are in love with them and keep em you risk transmission. If you didn't buy the does as tested negative livestock then I don't see you getting a solution from the seller. I've taken the gamble before of buying untested animals. If they only have cae you're lucky. Johnes and cl are the ones that I'm scared of.


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## helca (Oct 31, 2016)

Here, for the lady who bought CAE positive goats. I wouldnt'worry if I were you, unless you wanna show them. Most goats infected with CAE virus are asymptomatic. I have had mine for 4 years and never got a problem. The virus doesn't affect the milk that they produce and the meat is also just fine to eat (won't be the case with mine since they are pets). I purchased them at a time when I wasn't educated about that virus. The virus is passed to the next generation through colostrum and through milk. They produced babies that were separated from their mom at birth to avoid contagion and to save good milking lines. I had two herds for a while to avoid contagion which is a little unlikely, but could still happen. The kids went to another home and I kept the two does for milk that I and my relatives have been consuming for years with no problem. I make all my cheddar, chÃ¨vre and mozzarella and bread with their milk and both have been healthy so far. If I were you, I wouldn't be too worried.Just don't breed them. Good luck!


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