# RV or fix the house?



## cgraham (Dec 26, 2016)

I posted quite a bit about my situation in the introductions forum, but this is a bit more of a specific question.
I'm debating the feasibility of fixing plumbing, trying to get rid of mice, and possibly dealing with mold vs. finding a cheap RV to stay in.
The house has been sitting vacant for three years, is very old and drafty, and the pipes froze a couple of years ago. I don't know the extent of the problem, but even before they froze there were problems that needed attention. I want to stay in the smallest possible amount of the house so that I can close off what I don't need in winter, and that means getting the downstairs bathroom functioning as well as the kitchen.
The house is in the mountains and gets REALLY cold in winter, and I'll be heating with a combination of electric space heater (to keep pipes from freezing again) and kerosene heater (only when I'm there). I have to get the electricity turned back on, working plumbing, and get rid of the mice that seem to have taken over the house. The house also most likely has a mold problem to deal with.
I'm wondering if it might make more sense to find a small RV to stay in instead, but have no idea what to expect cost-wise for that option.
Suggestions? I will have extremely limited funds.


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

With "limited funds", I'd spend them all on the house since that's the end goal.

You'll have Spring and Summer to work on the other problems before you'll need to worry too much about heat.

Start with the plumbing and the rest will be easier.


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## Forcast (Apr 15, 2014)

Do you have wood that could be used for a wood burning stove? Wouldnt you need to have electric and water anyway for an RV?


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## cgraham (Dec 26, 2016)

What worries me most is that I'm afraid the house is a money pit. It's going to need extensive work to live there long-term, and I don't want to spend money for a quick fix that won't last. I won't be up there until later in summer, and at present am just trying to sort out the best possible scenario.
Number one on the list is getting electric back on, and next is water.......how does that hook up from an RV? I have well water, so do I even need running water in the house to connect the RV? The mice have seriously taken over, and I don't even know how bad it is now. We have a lot of furniture and belongings stored in the house that I'm afraid are probably ruined by the mold and mice by now. Sigh.
I'm going back to school full time, and I want to be able to live on the property with the least expense while I do that. Between now and then, I'll be able to do very little except occasional weekend visits.
This summer and fall I plan to do some garden work, but that's about it until next spring as far as homesteading. My main goal for now is to do what is most critical to be ready for winter.


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## GTX63 (Dec 13, 2016)

Mice, mold, cold and water seems to be your list of issues to correct for now.
Mice can be handled as cheaply as a cat or traps/poison or thru an exterminator.
Mold-if the house has been sealed up without ventilation then that is one thing; if the house is "drafty" then it is likely the mold is a product of either a leaky roof or the result of the busted water pipes. Mold isn't as cheap a fix.
Space heaters aren't a great idea for a large house with old wiring. A wood stove can be installed and pay for itself in a season using wood from your property.
If you know how to sweat copper lines, you can repair the breaks yourself, but freeze damage usually occurs in walls/ceilings near kitchens and bathrooms so be prepared to cut holes for access.
Once you have power on, you will need to see if the well pump still works. That will be an expense if it does not. I'd also suggest testing the water, or hauling bottled water and using the well for showers.


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## Fishindude (May 19, 2015)

I live in one of those money pits. After 25+ years it's finally a pretty nice house.
Just pay as you go and fix & rebuild things correctly. There are very few things related to a house that can't be fixed.

First focus would be on the building envelope; roof, exterior walls, windows, doors & insulation. Secondly the mechanicals; plumbing, electric, heat & AC. 

When it comes to the interior finishes priorities would first be bathroom, followed by kitchen, then bedrooms, living room, etc. I think many remodelers get carried away and blow too much of their budget on interior finish, before getting the essentials taken care of.


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## Forcast (Apr 15, 2014)

Full time school and holding a job? Sounds like you will be working on the house real part time weekends. Maybe a used mobile home is something to look into. Would be warmer than an rv in winter.


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## Forcast (Apr 15, 2014)

I hear mice dont like tea. What about a box of tea bags and 2 cats.


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## melli (May 7, 2016)

Not a bad looking house from pics in introduction. Should post some interior pics of problem areas... and well. What type of well/pump system do you have?

I would certainly figure out how mice got in house...they are sneaky buggers, and don't need much to sneak in. A caulk gun and many tubes of exterior grade caulk would be in order. I'd set traps all over, and if they persist, bait. Problem is, I would be ok with a dead mouse in walls, but not a colony of dead mice in walls. Wear appropriate gear for cleaning up their deposits. 

Figure out how water is getting into house or if was burst pipes. Don't be shy about ripping open a wall. You want a mold free house, and you need to see behind walls. 

Checking pipes can be tough, but first look at all visible pipes you can access. Then, one will usually pressurize the water supply and septic system to find/check for leaks. You might want to find a plumber for that as they have the tools. 

As others have mentioned, house integrity is job 1. Look in attic to see if any leaks/mold, then work your way down. Once you get power, a contractor heater can dry a place out. 

With limited funds, a RV may seem appropriate, but not only can it suck the last of your money, it requires maintenance, and hookup. Need a 30amp outlet or several extension cords, plus it will need to be winterized if you plan to stay in it over winter. I hauled water to RV...a pain. I eventually hardwired the main line into RV, with heat trace so it doesn't freeze. Probably requires digging to find line from well or putting in a line from house (where is pressure tank?). You could get away with using a RV hose (garden hose rated for potable water), but you have to refill RV water tanks every 3-4 days, and drain hose after use in winter. Then you have to figure out where to drain septic...All in all, a hassle. 

Really depends on how bad house is...I would be inclined to put the peddle to metal to get house mostly livable (serviceable - electric, water and septic). How it looks would be secondary, as long as mold isn't extreme or can be taped off (6mil vapor barrier and lots of tape to seal off bad zone). 
Will be a rough few weeks with mice and all, but once you get it sealed, you on your way. I'd forget about garden this first year, and focus on house. 

Getting power hooked up is first thing I would look at...enables you to plug away at night. 
It is my opinion houses are money pits, if you hire folks to do the work...if you are really handy, a self learner, you can do all the work yourself, and save big. 

I hate mice and mold...find the cleanest room, and vapor barrier and tape the room at openings, except for windows (need air), then I'd have my bed in that room. I'd have traps (dozens all over). I like some of the homemade traps I see online, the one's with 5 gallon pail with water in it, and a method to entice them into it. Depending on how far from home you are to house, I would probably do the traps and come back in a couple of days to see what is what...I find it hard to sleep with mice scurrying around.


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## Bellyman (Jul 6, 2013)

Whatever your solution, RV, tent, trailer, shed, garage, whatever, I would not want to live in a house with both significant mold and significant mouse problems. If you can solve those well enough that you're not endangering your health to live in the house, great.

You apparently have utilities so it would be possible to hook up an RV if you had one. You really wouldn't want a "fixer-upper" RV, though, because if you got one of those, you'd be working on it rather than working on the house. It is, however, very fast to pull one in and instantly have a complete and functional living space if you can hook it up to electric, have a way to fill the fresh water tank and have a place to dump your sewage hose. It's not that difficult to do. But I've been a fulltime RVer for 11+ years now and have lived in the RV in temperatures down to about -10 degrees F. Cold weather isn't much fun, and there does come a point where winterizing saves the stress of worrying about freezing water lines. (I did that during a 4 or 5 day cold spell a few years back when it was down between -10 and 0 degrees F for the whole time, even the daytime. Winterizing takes me about 20 minutes. It's not a big deal. And unwinterizing is even easier. But again, I've done this stuff for 11 years so it's not my first rodeo.)

Fortunately, we are getting to the point where winter is probably about over and the temps will be warming up to the point where freezing weather won't be an issue for a while, in a few more weeks. That would make opening up the house, as in ventilating, much easier and comfortable to do. 

If you want an RV anyway, it's an excuse to get one. If you don't want one, there may be better ways to get going in your new place, even if it's just a shed you can work out of for a while and then use for a shed on the place when you're done. 

Good luck!


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## cgraham (Dec 26, 2016)

GTX63, I believe the mold has been an issue since before the frozen pipes. The basement has flooded several times over the years and everything in the house smells like mildew. Even the silverware in the kitchen drawers.

Fishindude, I'm not worried about the looks so no worries there, but there's been so much "fixing" done (for decades) that I almost think the house needs to be taken apart to see what's what. I know my dad had new wiring done because there was still the old kind (knob and tube?), but my dad also knocked a hole in the basement floor to let the water out when it flooded. My grandfather was one of the original store managers when Lowes hardware started up, and for years he "fixed" and remodeled as he pleased. Not well done remodels either.

Forcast, lol, I'm thinking about cats. 

Melli, the mice have been a problem for years as well. I remember Granny setting traps when I was little. I don't want to have a colony of dead mice in the wall either! I'm pretty sure they have settled in behind the stove. A couple of years ago I stayed there for a bit turning on the oven made the most awful smell! I mean, like nothing I've ever smelled. They're pretty brave too.....just walk right out and wave at you while you're sitting there reading or whatever. Thanks for the recommendation with the 6mil vapor barrier...that's the idea I was going for.

Bellyman, I was wondering how hard it would be to hook up an RV to the well and electricity. I don't know about keeping the line from freezing in winter...how do you do that? I have to say, the house is pretty d*** cold in winter, and I was sleeping in a tiny bedroom. I could feel the air in the room move when the wind blew outside.

I'm going to see if I can find some more pics to post, and I think I'm going up there this weekend so I'll get more.


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## cgraham (Dec 26, 2016)

Here are some pics. Sorry some are sideways, I couldn't figure out how to get them turned. The ones in the basement are right under the bathroom, and the wooden panel in the wall is a cover for the crawlspace under the kitchen. Lots of daylight under the kitchen, right where the sink is, and critters like to get in there.
The interior ones I put in just so you could see how crooked the house is. Seriously, there was a cabin and they just added on walls and things until it was a house.
The exterior stairs are where a chimney was. Pa put that in when he rented out the house. The old fireplace mantel was found in the barn, and I have a sneaking suspicion he's covered over a lot of things in the house as he remodeled, and I would love to see what's under all his shenanigans.
All these pics are from almost ten years ago. When I go up this weekend I'll try to get some better ones.


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## CircleC (Feb 22, 2017)

Hard to believe somebody wouldnt be interested in a place like that? Im jealous as hell XD. Id love to be able to make that place home!

Personally i wouldnt mess with an rv. It would just be dividing ur efforts. 


Man thats a lot of work but would be so worth it! Best of luck!!


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## cgraham (Dec 26, 2016)

Thanks, CircleC!! I do love the house, and I've always wanted to fix it. I think I'm just afraid of finding out that there's more to fix than I can manage.


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## melli (May 7, 2016)

I mean those house pics are 10yrs old, but it doesn't look half bad. It is a big house for sure...Shingles look ok. 
Mice probably nibbled on stove residue then had a mess of dumps in it. So, when you turned in on, you were cooking their feces. Not pleasant I bet. 
I'd toss it, or pull it outside and hook it up to self clean mode...and run. 

I was looking after a cottager's cottage and he had mice issues...was getting a dead one every other week for about 2 yrs...we couldn't figure out how they were getting in. Turns out, the chimney...they are good climbers. 

Unless you plan to live in RV for a length of time (like a year or two), I'd scratch that idea. You will be spending a lot of time prepping an RV (I skirted mine, had to deal with mice too - RV's are mice magnets, and spent some time on initial hardwired hookup (power, septic and water). Plus, I have to recaulk it every year. And I got a decent RV...
That being said, if you haven't done a reno before, maybe a RV is the way to go...having an extra pair of hands to help in reno would be helpful too. With an RV, your not rushed. I just see it as a step back than forward. In my case, I had no choice, I had no home to reno....didn't even have a well at the time.


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## cgraham (Dec 26, 2016)

Omg, Melli, you crack me UP!!!! Great idea taking the stove outside.


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## oldtruckbbq (Aug 8, 2016)

Fishindude said:


> I live in one of those money pits. After 25+ years it's finally a pretty nice house.
> Just pay as you go and fix & rebuild things correctly. There are very few things related to a house that can't be fixed.
> 
> First focus would be on the building envelope; roof, exterior walls, windows, doors & insulation. Secondly the mechanicals; plumbing, electric, heat & AC.
> ...


Kind of like the people who put new rims and tires, 1000 watt sound system, and tint on a car that smokes, leaves a trail of oil, and squeals when they brake!


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## Fishindude (May 19, 2015)

oldtruckbbq said:


> Kind of like the people who put new rims and tires, 1000 watt sound system, and tint on a car that smokes, leaves a trail of oil, and squeals when they brake!


I get what you're saying, but it's a whole lot different than an automobile.
Home repairs and remodeling done properly will last indefinitely and increase the value of the home. 

When getting started, most can't afford a new house. Buying a junker and rebuilding it yourself, pay as you go is the only way many will ever get a nice house. In the end, you may indeed have more money in a big remodel, but since you went pay as you go, you won't ever have the big mortgage.

When we bought our place, I was working 50 hour weeks, then worked on the house all weekend and a couple hours every night for six months making it suitable to move in.


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## Forcast (Apr 15, 2014)

I had to leave my cabin for almost 9 years to help family in another state. Mice and Norwegian roof rats ones that look like hamster moved in. What i did when moving back was to start cleaning the 2nd floor every thung out cleaned scrubed and only put cleaned things ack in that room nothing in boxes or closets or on floor. Put traps down used towels to block under the bedroom door.so mice cant get back in that room. Oh empty out draws. Leave open. Move to next room closest to 1st cleaned room. It worked cause mice would move and kept moving to basement. Filled any crack holes along the way. Living room had mice nests in couch and chairs. So they had to be replaced. Traps along wall works best. Bucket traps in kitchen and sement worked well. Kitchen empty every thing out . had to remove and replace insulation in the stove big mouse and pee problem. Kept all cabnets open. No place for mice to hide. Again fill all holes and cracks. Seem my mice went to basement and garage. Bucket traps did the trick. Cats helped a great deal.


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## cgraham (Dec 26, 2016)

Thanks, Forecast! Sounds exactly like what I need to do. There is one bedroom upstairs that I like to use as it seems the brightest, airiest, and driest room in the house, so maybe I'll start there. One problem I see is that my husband is using one of the upstairs bedrooms for storage, and he has A LOT of stuff in there. He's not going to empty it out any time soon. (but, I'm working on that)

Which, I'm sure raises questions from others......

No, my husband is not moving in to the house with me. I'm going to live there alone, and he is not likely to help with much (if any) of the work there. Too complicated to explain, but suffice it to say that for all intents and purposes....I'm on my own on this. We have lived a part before, and oddly enough it works pretty well for us. He's a city person, and I'm not. 
I may get help from my son who's 23 and a pretty smart kid, but no guarantees, so I'm assuming it's all me.


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## 92utownxj (Sep 13, 2013)

Just wanted to say before you do anything on the house please be sure to make sure the structure is perfect. Good foundation, good and solid floor, good wall framing, and a good and solid leak free roof. It will save you lots of time and money down the road.


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## cgraham (Dec 26, 2016)

92utownxj, I'm fairly certain there are foundation problems, but there's no way I could afford to fix them. I haven't had it looked at, but I'd bet money on problems. Like I said, my great-grandparents added onto a cabin (at least that's the story), my grandfather did a lot who-knows-what to it, and there are lots of reasons to think that if I start taking things apart, I'm going to find some major issues.
Right now, I just need to be able to stay there with a working bathroom and kitchen, everything else has to wait until further down the road.
My ultimate vision is to take it apart, board by board, and see what's actually good and go from there. The town did a lot of lumber way back, and lots of places in the house you can see the saw marks. The majority of the house would be local lumber, milled in town. Not long after it was built, the depression came, the train stopped coming to town, lumber mill and businesses left. Its a tiny little mountain community that never really recovered from that.
One of the other houses on the property (three houses total, but that's another story altogether) has wormy chestnut walls that I love, but the main house has been paneled over and so crazy on the inside I really don't know what's under there, or how much damage to the structure my grandfather did. Maybe he didn't, maybe it's just visually awful, but I won't know til I do some pulling apart.
With probable mold, water damage around the foundation, mice (lots of them).....it's just a scary thing. The other house has no bathroom, but may be in better structural shape...I really don't know, and my funds are extremely limited. Like, non-existent at present. I just need a place to sleep, eat, and use the bathroom. If I can get enrolled at the university, I could shower on campus.
That's why I was wondering if would make more sense to find an RV and work on the house a little at a time.


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## jwal10 (Jun 5, 2010)

House does not look bad but a lot can happen in 10 years. Make sure it is stable, nothing moving. Put your money in the house, kitchen and bathroom first. Then the rest of the downstairs. Turn the water on for maybe 30 seconds and wait for leak to show up, fix those leaks and repeat. I would get a mix of traps, sticky, live, regular traps and bait, see what you get. Fix any holes you find where they may be getting in. Be careful with electric heaters until you find out about the electrical service. May be worth while getting an electrical inspection to know if safe. Use low wattage heaters like I show below, no fan to eat power, no cold air on startup. They help dry the air. They hang like a picture frame, template comes with heater. Spray any/all walls that have mold with peroxide, works well. If real damp you can get absorbers at the dollar store for $1, get a few and put around damp areas. Open doors on warm days to air out. If there is a chimney have it cleaned and inspected before use, the fire department here will help with this. Make sure there are no leaks in the roof or siding, get any repaired as soon as possible....James

http://www.eheat.com/envi-high-effi...tm_source=bc&gclid=CLjnhYT1xNICFUxufgodO6kFCQ


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## cgraham (Dec 26, 2016)

jwal10, I like that heater! Might have to see about getting one later.


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## Forcast (Apr 15, 2014)

https://www.simplemost.com/all-natu...dium=partner&utm_source=facebook&partner=shrd


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## cgraham (Dec 26, 2016)

Ok, so a trip is planned to go up to the property this weekend. Tell me what to take pictures of so that you brilliant and knowledgeable folks can give me an idea of what I'm up against.
Plumbing, yes, but what exactly? The well/water pump/ I'm guessing,...the crawl space under the kitchen?....
I got a phone number for a local plumber from a friend, but before I spend ANY money, I want to feel a little more like I know what I'm asking for/talking about.


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## Horrorshow (Jan 13, 2015)

I'll just list what I would be worried about, in no particular order. Pictures would be useful:

1. Foundation. Is it slab, pier, etc? Is it in decent shape, or crumbling?
2. Roof. Any sunken spots? Leaks? Checking from inside of attic is preferred
3. Bones. Are the load bearing portions of the frame in good shape? Any rot, termites, etc? What about non-load bearing portions?
4. Plumbing. Are the pipes accessible and in good shape? Determine if they need to be replaced or just insulated.
5. Electrical. What amp is the box? Is the internal wiring still good, or is it exposed and mouse chewed?
6. Pics of what you consider to be the biggest issues.

Your 10 year old pics look really good actually, I've flipped homes that looked like they needed to be bulldozed before I started, for a lot less money than you mentioned, because the main things were okay.


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## melli (May 7, 2016)

cgraham said:


> Ok, so a trip is planned to go up to the property this weekend. Tell me what to take pictures of so that you brilliant and knowledgeable folks can give me an idea of what I'm up against.
> Plumbing, yes, but what exactly? The well/water pump/ I'm guessing,...the crawl space under the kitchen?....
> I got a phone number for a local plumber from a friend, but before I spend ANY money, I want to feel a little more like I know what I'm asking for/talking about.


Attic - full length pic - looking for sag, mold, insulation, size of rafters, etc.
Mechanical Room? - HWT, Furnace, Pressure Tank?, main stack (septic), chimney
Foundation - basement pics - looks like you have block on concrete?, any major settling cracks?, post and beams, size of ceiling joists and spacing? Pics all around...Looking at structure. Where joists land on concrete walls - any rot? 
Have you ripped open any walls - pics of those and areas of mold. 
Siding and windows - looking for degradation and trim around windows - windows single or double pane? When water gets behind siding you usually get paint peeling (especially trim)...if you can dig your fingers into trim (usually at bottom), you have rot, and likely a mess behind (once water gets behind siding, it really goes to work feeding the mold). I've taken off siding and trim, and the only exterior damage was minimal peeling at bottom of trim. But once off, I could stick my hand through sheathing, and it had compromised insulation and floor joists. 
Soffit - any mold or stains on soffit. 

I would look at the big stuff first (stuff listed above)...kitchen, bathroom stuff can easily be replaced/fixed.


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## cgraham (Dec 26, 2016)

I took a lot of pictures yesterday, and I'm overwhelmed with what needs to get done. I know it's not as bad as it could be, but it feels like a lot to me. I saw places where old clothes were stuffed into cracks and holes, a sagging, moldy place in an upstairs bedroom......sigh.
I couldn't get to the attic yesterday, but I think I'm going back next weekend so will try then.
I'll try to upload a couple of pictures.


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## cgraham (Dec 26, 2016)

In the basement, under the bathroom.


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## cgraham (Dec 26, 2016)

Electrical panel; line coming in from outside; an outlet and light switch inside a kitchen cabinet


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## mmoetc (Oct 9, 2012)

What is your long term goal for this property? You mentioned living on/in it while going to school. How long is that and what happens afterwards? If you plan on living there long term it might make sense to invest in the existing structure though. If you're looking short term finding a used rv probably makes more sense. With limited funds(different thing to different people) you'll likely never get the house to where it needs to be. Even simple plumbing fixes can suck up funds faster than you think when you start digging behind those walls.

The RV will always retain some value which can be recouped if life takes you away from this place. Both short and long term goals need to be considered.


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## Horrorshow (Jan 13, 2015)

My house is 77 years old, and in need of lots of repairs before I can sell it. It seemed pretty insurmountable to me too, I couldn't figure out what to do first, how much work it was; it just seemed impossible. So I walked through and around the house wit ha notepad and made a note of every single flaw and repair needed, no matter how big or small. When I was done I had a list of 235 'tasks', as small as 'clean dining room fan' to 'paint exterior of house'.

That list seemed even worse, seeing all that had to be done before I could sell it, hundreds of hours of work at least!

So I divided it into smaller chunks. What I could do that weekend. That month. Before my vacation. During my vacation. And I made it a goal to mark 1 thing off every day at least. My list is down to 165 items in 4 weeks. And I have to tell you, marking off something from that list is extremely satisfying and motivating at the same time. 

You can get this done. List out everything, figure the cost of doing it, adjust your list, and get started. You can do it.


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## cgraham (Dec 26, 2016)

More basement pics under the bathroom


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## jwal10 (Jun 5, 2010)

I haven't seen anything yet that would throw me off fixing the place up. Would want to see that moldy bedroom area. How big, leaky roof? Simple fix or needs whole new roof?

That is the important stuff, soft floor, molded sheet rock. Having set for years it has dried out IF the roof is good. Living in a house it would be leaks around toilet plumbing, shower/tub, big cracks in basement walls where they have shifted. Place looks like it needs a good cleaning, some paint, then fix problems that show up. At least it has a modern breaker box, ABS pipes. I see some galvanized water pipe. It is what it is, old house, bones look good but a lot can be hidden.

First thing is a good cleaning, air it out, get the water on and find those leaks....James


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## cgraham (Dec 26, 2016)

Thanks, James, that makes me feel better about it.


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## jwal10 (Jun 5, 2010)

*I would love to get in there and carefully remove some of the wall coverings and check that place out. Not tear it up just easy to remove panel or board to see what is behind it? Log cabin? Some of those old timbers under there look interesting. Need to tear off the old stairs and platforms outside, steps into house that don't look very solid. Is there an interior stairs? Outside stairs made to make 2 units? May just want to find a person that does remodels and have them give an estimate for a bath redo. One good point, looks like you have good open access to plumbing. Kitchen, make sure sink works without any leaks and make do with a microwave, toaster oven and such for a while. Get the rat/mice problem gone before bringing much into the house. Like said block everything else off that has a door to isolate your tiny living area until all traces of the varmints are gone. Interesting project, hope you have time to update and ask questions as you go along. I hope things go well to start so you feel more comfortable and can enjoy the process....James*


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## cgraham (Dec 26, 2016)

Exactly what I'd like to do, James! I want to see what's under everything, how things were put together.
I'll be sure to take more pictures as I work on it.


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## melli (May 7, 2016)

cgraham said:


> Exactly what I'd like to do, James! I want to see what's under everything, how things were put together.
> I'll be sure to take more pictures as I work on it.


Yeah, I could see an old house, when thoroughly inspected, overwhelm someone. Obviously, only you can decide if it's worth it (btw - pics are too small to see detail). But I've seen folks gut out houses that should have been teardowns (yours looks way better than that), and rebuild (easier and less headache from city hall). 
You'd be surprised at what you can do. Being a tad naive or very optimistic can get you started, and once you've sunk your teeth into it, completed some work, you'll feel much better about it. Just plug away, and you'll see results. I like the list Horrorshow suggested...that way, you can see what you did, what is left, and very important for me, what I'd like to do for the day. Some days, I am not keen to tile set, but I am keen to demolish things...lol

From what I see in pics, it looks like someone has 'hardwired' something into a plug (why they didn't go into gang box properly is beyond me). I see an oil heater crammed in a crawl space (why, I don't know...lack of insulation, or to dry things out). Seeing ABS is a good thing, but hard to tell if it is has been hacked (overabundance of fittings). Other than ABS costing a penny, I don't consider fixing it a big deal (if there are leaks), as most of it is accessible. The parts that are not accessible shouldn't be an issue (venting). Only traps would freeze and crack, since they are the only parts that hold water. Water lines will need to be checked...I'd go with PEX as replacement...easy to work with. 

Stay positive, and you'll get it done.


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## Forcast (Apr 15, 2014)

Did you get water and power turned on? That would be my first. Second i would have the roof inspected. Get 3 bids and repair it. Then i would start in the bathroom make it useable then kitchen usable and a bedroom usable. That way no rain comes in. I can pee and shower and make food. Oh get a frig.


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## cgraham (Dec 26, 2016)

Went back up there today and looked around again. I think I'm feeling better about it.
Forcast, the water and power still aren't on, but yes I think the roof is an important fix.
Melli, that heater was put in the crawl space by a friend who was trying to keep the pipes from freezing. He turned it all the way up and left it on for weeks while the weather was freezing cold. My electric bill was horrible, and that was the only thing running besides the refrigerator. And that hard wiring thing....who knows.


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## cgraham (Dec 26, 2016)

So I found out that because the house has sat empty so long, in order to get the power turned back on it has to be inspected. What can I expect with a an electrical inspection?? What do I need to make sure they can see or get to? I haven't called them yet, so no idea when I'll be able to actually get it inspected.


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## melli (May 7, 2016)

cgraham said:


> So I found out that because the house has sat empty so long, in order to get the power turned back on it has to be inspected. What can I expect with a an electrical inspection?? What do I need to make sure they can see or get to? I haven't called them yet, so no idea when I'll be able to actually get it inspected.


A house inspection or just an electrical inspection?
I wouldn't expect you'd have to make any efforts to open things up, just as long as they can access all the rooms, especially main panel. That hack job on outlet box should probably be fixed, hidden or removed.
I was thinking you should ask them if house has to conform to current code, but you better not. Best just to get them out to have a look. Make up a good sob story about how you need to move in...
Make sure you have smoke alarms in good working order on each floor and in bedrooms (?).
Also, fix obvious 'fails' like wires protruding from wall, light-bulb sockets hanging by wire etc....
Clean up the place, the best you can...I would even go so far as to 'stage' the place, so it looks like you live there...freezing with no lights...


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## Tomjracer (Jan 30, 2015)

On the mice, set up a few 5 gallon bucket traps (at least one on each level). It allows you to catch up to 20 at a time without emptying the trap and they are cheap to make.

I keep one going in my shed throughout the year and it has done wonders at keeping the little buggers out of my tractor and other equipment.


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## cgraham (Dec 26, 2016)

Well, it's crunch time. I have had some serious financial setbacks, and getting the electrical safety inspection still hasn't happened. I'm looking at living there the first of July with no water or power. Even in the best case scenario with the inspection it will cost a total of about $400 to have power, and with power the water pump will work.....but then the leaks will have to be found and fixed, so more $$, and at the moment that's just not going to happen.
You know, I'm beginning to think I need to find someone who knows how to do things and wants a place to live. I could rent out a bedroom for a small amount and repair work. Maybe for nothing if they can start the garden, fix the pipes, patch the roof, get the chickens set up.....hmmm. They would have to be wiling to live in a less than ideal situation until things get better.


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## Forcast (Apr 15, 2014)

Well at least you got a start amount$ and a date in mind. I lived in my house for months with out any power well frig ect. Its a pain in the butt. I collected rain water by running the rain spouts in 55 gal trash( 6)cans on porch to save carry distance. I was lucky it seemed to rain just as my stach was running low. Had a garbage can in the bathroom for flushing toilets. Boiled water for washing dishes and horesbaths. Got drinking water from neighbors in milk jugs. Cooked on a camp stove. And used oil lamps. Living like this takes way more time to do everything. Washing clothes and bathing was the hardest parts for me. Clean up after cooking was another pain in the butt thing. If i ran out of propain in the camp stove i used the oil lamp botton with a pot holder rigged over it. It took a year to get all the black off my pots. Some i just threw away. Becareful when looking for that roommate for work deal. I tried it and wound up more in the money hole. And i had a bad time getting them to leave when it was not working out.


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## melli (May 7, 2016)

Graham - I like some of Forcast's suggestions...so not for me...lol. I can't hack being without internet for any length of time. 
But, you do have a homestead, which is more than most folks. And just getting power, for instance, changes everything. Can dispense with gas/oil (and those costs can add up). 
If your a trooper, it is summer, give it whirl. Finding a 'capable' roommate is the problem. In my younger days while going through school, I had many roommates (no choice with rent prices). Never again...lol
I'd go to construction job sites and ask around...at least you'll have a good chance of getting someone qualified. A contractor neighbor has a friend who he calls upon for jobs like yours. He'll camp out if need be. And he is a straight arrow (hard worker, no headaches).


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## cgraham (Dec 26, 2016)

Forcast, thanks for the vote of confidence!  You're right, I do have the homestead, and I can make it work. Next thing is to get a camp stove. I was going to get a cheap little grill that I can use outside, but the camp stove is something I was thinking might work better.
If my financial aid goes through at the university nearby, I can use the showers on campus while I'm in town. Since it's a college town, there are lots of laundromats for the clothes too. There is a guy that lives in one of the other houses on our property that has let me use his wi-fi before, and I'm sure he wouldn't mind again. We might could even run an extension cord if I really needed to, but I'm not sure of the practicality of that.
With the leaks in the plumbing, I wouldn't be able to flush the toilet. I'm thinking of getting a camp type toilet as I can't afford a composting toilet. That seems to be the biggest sticking point for me. I could run over to the neighbor's, but that would be awkward. Again, if I'm in town it won't be a problem, but times when I'm at the house might be tricky.


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## cgraham (Dec 26, 2016)

Melli, that friend of your contractor friend......think he's available?  Sounds perfect. He could vacation in the mountains of NC for the summer.


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## Forcast (Apr 15, 2014)

I have run extension cords to run the frig before. Just spend a bit more and get the heavy duty cord.


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## Forcast (Apr 15, 2014)

cgraham said:


> Forcast, thanks for the vote of confidence!  You're right, I do have the homestead, and I can make it work. Next thing is to get a camp stove. I was going to get a cheap little grill that I can use outside, but the camp stove is something I was thinking might work better.
> If my financial aid goes through at the university nearby, I can use the showers on campus while I'm in town. Since it's a college town, there are lots of laundromats for the clothes too. There is a guy that lives in one of the other houses on our property that has let me use his wi-fi before, and I'm sure he wouldn't mind again. We might could even run an extension cord if I really needed to, but I'm not sure of the practicality of that.
> With the leaks in the plumbing, I wouldn't be able to flush the toilet. I'm thinking of getting a camp type toilet as I can't afford a composting toilet. That seems to be the biggest sticking point for me. I could run over to the neighbor's, but that would be awkward. Again, if I'm in town it won't be a problem, but times when I'm at the house might be tricky.


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## Forcast (Apr 15, 2014)

If you can set up some trash cans with water /rain water you can use a bucket of water to flush the house toilet.


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## melli (May 7, 2016)

cgraham said:


> Melli, that friend of your contractor friend......think he's available?  Sounds perfect. He could vacation in the mountains of NC for the summer.


A guy like that might! I know him pretty well, and he is a trooper (game to try anything), but sadly he is the contractor's friend and he has him in an RV onsite at a build he is starting this summer...I should pop over and say hi, now that I think about it. 
The contractor buzzed me earlier in year looking for accommodation for him. I wish my build was done, as I could have rented out my RV to him. 

Forcast - I think Graham's waste pipes are leaking, so he can't even use them. 

Graham - another neighbor, for unknown reasons, bought a pop-up camper to camp down the road (he has a bloody cottage 2 miles away)...anyways, he showed me his toilet he bought at Canadian Tire...haha...it was a 5 gallon pail with seat built on top. I think you can buy that for $20. Get some cat litter and your good to go...


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## cgraham (Dec 26, 2016)

Ok, now.....it's about to get real. I just got approved for financial aid at the university, and I'm going to be moving into the old house. Busted pipes so no water and no electricity yet. I still have to get the safety inspection, and I'm really worried they'll just laugh and say theres no way they'll approve turning on the power.


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## Xperthunter (Mar 30, 2015)

If PEX is approved for Canada, get a pex crimp set ($90) then you can buy all the tubing and connectors for a 2400sqft house water lines for $200. Super easy to work with


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## Forcast (Apr 15, 2014)

Hope it gos well keep us posted Hun


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## cgraham (Dec 26, 2016)

Whoa...
found out it isn't just a safety inspection for electrical safety, it's a SAFETY inspection....like for the whole house! This house is so jacked up there's no way they'll say it's safe! Maybe I'm over reacting? He said they'll look for things like hand rails (which the basement stairs don't have), and other basic safety issues.


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## cgraham (Dec 26, 2016)

I got a camping toilet (uses the enzyme packets in the tank) that I can empty at the neighbor's every few days, a battery powered water pump/shower thing that I can use in a bucket of water to wash dishes and myself, and a Coleman stove to cook on. I have a power inverter that plugs into the car and has regular outlet plugs plus USB ports. I have an oil lamp already, but I think I'll also get a battery powered lantern.
Do you think the freezer section of the fridge will keep things cold like a cooler if I put ice in there? I was going to use a small cooler to keep one or two things, like the cream for my coffee, but would the freezer part hold in the cold better?


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## melli (May 7, 2016)

cgraham said:


> I got a camping toilet (uses the enzyme packets in the tank) that I can empty at the neighbor's every few days, a battery powered water pump/shower thing that I can use in a bucket of water to wash dishes and myself, and a Coleman stove to cook on. I have a power inverter that plugs into the car and has regular outlet plugs plus USB ports. I have an oil lamp already, but I think I'll also get a battery powered lantern.
> Do you think the freezer section of the fridge will keep things cold like a cooler if I put ice in there? I was going to use a small cooler to keep one or two things, like the cream for my coffee, but would the freezer part hold in the cold better?


I wouldn't see why not...not just the freezer, but the whole fridge is a cooler (insulated with foam). Get better results in freezer section...less volume to cool. 
Glad to hear your trying to make it work.


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## cgraham (Dec 26, 2016)

Great news! Neighbor Guy (or I may have called him Caretaker Guy in earlier posts?) says the leak in the plumbing has more to do with the water lines and not the pipes coming from the upstairs toilet. That means that I can pour water into it to make it flush! The issue then is hauling water from somewhere and then getting it upstairs. The downstairs toilet has some kind of leak that makes water drip under it in the basement and hasn't been used in a few years. I don't have money to fix it, so just shut it down.
I'll still use the camping toilet, but that does make the emptying of it a little easier as I can now take it upstairs and dump it every couple of days, keeping a 5 gallon bucket of water up there to flush with.


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## cgraham (Dec 26, 2016)

The bigger issue is the moldiness. The whole house has that damp, mildewy basement smell. Everything in the house smells like mildew. EVERYthing. I stayed overnight this past wednesday, and all my things stayed in the car until time to get ready for bed. I brought my pillow, blanket, clothes to wear the next day, and that's it. The next morning I left, went to class, and then drove back to where we live now. When I got my things out of the car every single thing smelled like it had been in a moldy basement for a few years. I even kept the clothes zipped up in the bag overnight, but they still smell that way.
I don't know that I can (or should) live in that.


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## Forcast (Apr 15, 2014)

Fans get air moving?


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## cgraham (Dec 26, 2016)

Forcast, remember there's no electricity. The smell in the air is a bit better when all the windows and doors stay open, but things still take on the mildew smell. In the winter with a kerosene heater going it is also a tad better, but not a lot. I'm afraid the underlying cause is much worse and won't be fixed easily.
There is another house on the property, and it doesn't have a basement and doesn't have any obvious mold issues. That house, however, doesn't have any sink or tub drains that can be used to dump gray water, and definitely no toilet (other than the camp toilet I could put in there). So, what I was thinking of doing is camping there instead where clothes and bed linens can stay dry and mildew free. It would be a lot more primitive set up, and the house has no insulation so will be a problem when it's cold.


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## Forcast (Apr 15, 2014)

Right no power. Water from rain spouts? So if nothing is working like well power how can you get the safety inspection?


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## cgraham (Dec 26, 2016)

Wow, didn't realize my last post was a few weeks ago!
Forcast, the safety inspection is to make sure it's safe to turn the power on. If they say it's ok to turn it on, the deposit and hook up fees are going to be a few hundred dollars, so I may be able to do that before it gets too cold.

So, here's what I've been doing:
I started out trying to stay at the other (drier) house, but it was just not working out. It was really hot in there, plus no sink drains or anything made life more difficult than necessary. I could have made it work, but I like my house better so I'm living with the mildew.
The neighbor ran a cord with an outlet box over to my house, so I do have a couple of electric things like my coffee maker and a lamp, so that's been nice. He said the upstairs toilet pipes are good and not part of where the busted pipes are that froze, so I can do the force flush with a bucket of water, and he brings me a 5 gallon bucket every so often. SO, with the camp toilet downstairs, I'm using that for a few days and then taking it upstairs to empty into the toilet and flushing with the bucket of water.
I'm taking showers at the university gym every couple of days, but it's a pain in the butt to take all my shower stuff with me. Doable, but a pain. Today I used my battery powered pump with a shower head (made by Pyle) to wash my hair, and it worked pretty well. Next is to try it as an actual shower, but then that means buying water for the shower. The water brought over by the neighbor has too much sediment in it and isn't filtered so it would clog up the pump.
I buy gallons of water for everything else and use it sparingly.
I keep a few things in a cooler with ice, but not too much.
I use the camp stove to cook a little, and I eat on campus some too.
I'd say it's gone well so far, but I'd still like to get the power turned on before it gets cold.


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## Forcast (Apr 15, 2014)

Sounds like your heading in the right direction. My in laws live in a school bus. Yep old hippies. Raised 3 kids too. They have a large plastic ( not sure what kind of plastic) tank set up higher then the bus connected with hose. They have had water delivered or collected rain water for the holding tank, Depending on how much money they have. They use tarps to collect and direct rain water to tanks. Because the tanks set away and higher then the bus.


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## melli (May 7, 2016)

cgraham said:


> Great news! Neighbor Guy (or I may have called him Caretaker Guy in earlier posts?) says the leak in the plumbing has more to do with the water lines and not the pipes coming from the upstairs toilet. That means that I can pour water into it to make it flush! The issue then is hauling water from somewhere and then getting it upstairs. The downstairs toilet has some kind of leak that makes water drip under it in the basement and hasn't been used in a few years. I don't have money to fix it, so just shut it down.
> I'll still use the camping toilet, but that does make the emptying of it a little easier as I can now take it upstairs and dump it every couple of days, keeping a 5 gallon bucket of water up there to flush with.


Great news, missed this post. 
You have to find out where the mold is...and get at it. If the unused toilet is leaking, removed it and plug the drain well (gas). Then the floor underneath toilet can dry a bit or be removed. Come to think of it, you may have empty traps if the house has been sitting a long time. If you do, the sewer gas can enter home and make things unpleasant. 
Doesn't take much water to make sure all traps have water....


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## Forcast (Apr 15, 2014)

Bleach in water with a drop of Dawn works well. Since you have some power I would set a fan up blowing out at one end of the house.


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## zuren (Feb 13, 2015)

Is there black mold in the house, or is it just damp/musty? If it is just musty, a person can deal. You definitely need to get a heat source in there to dry it out.....and several gallons of bleach. Black mold, on the other hand, is a serious concern and you SHOULD NOT be in there without ventilation and a respirator. Mold remediation on this scale should not be taken lightly - https://www.familyhandyman.com/cleaning/mold-and-mildew/how-to-remove-mold/view-all/

Did you get the mouse situation under control? I agree with using snap traps (make sure you adjust them to have a hair trigger), bucket traps, and you could try spraying (or soaking cotton balls) with peppermint essential oil; supposedly mice don't like it. Glue traps are effective but a little grizzly; you may be pulling half live mice off of them. I would avoid poison; they say that the mice leave your house in search of water but I find that rarely happens. Usually they just die in the walls then you get to smell them rot; it sounds like you already have plenty of foul odors to deal with. A few bucket traps, in my opinion, are the most economical and efficient approach. And plug up any access points with steel wool or spray foam. 

Seems like the budget is tight and I don't know what kind of additional buildings are on the property, but is there the potential to build a medium-to-large shed on the property and make it livable? It could be set up as a budget, off grid "tiny house". A propane wall heater or small wood stove could be installed (not terribly expensive) for heat in the cooler months. I would lean toward a vented option if you go for propane but they are harder to find. It should be possible to connect it to a 20lb. grill tank that sits outside. Then once the main house is done, it could become a shed, mini shop, room for rent, etc. The investment in time and money would be retained versus the RV idea that still depreciates even if fixed (that appears you already passed on).

Sounds like your plate is pretty full and wallet pretty empty so I don't mean to overwhelm you with solutions that will cost more and involve time. I can relate completely; most days I feel like I'm drinking from a fire hose and my wallet is pretty thin. But I would hate to see you get sick and having a comfy, clean place to lay your head at night goes a long way.


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## cgraham (Dec 26, 2016)

Time for an update! 
Zuren, thanks for the suggestions, and I haven't really dealt with the mice yet. With the warm weather they haven't been very noticeable, but I know as it cools down I'll see more evidence.
The moldiness is primarily from the basement, which is in terrible shape and always wet. I honestly don't know if there's black mold, but I know with all my grandfather's renovations over the years and the age of windows, roof, and then the basement....lots of opportunity for moisture problems. There's a place in an upstairs bedroom where it looks like the ceiling is getting wet, and then flooring in front of a couple of windows he put in that feels kinda wonky. I'm just afraid it's a great big money pit, and I'm going to have to take it apart, board by board, and try to save what I can.
A small building to stay in is actually what I would like to do, BUT, like you picked up on...the budget. Money is just not available for anything except bare bones for now.
So, I made it through the summer semester! I would like to get the safety inspection set up soon so I can use some fall financial aid money to maybe hook up the electricity and then work on getting the pipes fixed.


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