# Got the response from the ADRE



## sisterpine (May 9, 2004)

Please be careful. We thought we were careful and through but apparently not enough.

Got a response from the Arizona Department of Real Estate regarding the complaint I filed about failure to disclose a couple of things prior to our purchase of our current stead (which we totally love anyway). One of the things the seller and her agent failed to disclose is the history of earth fissure on our street. The ADRE said that the seller did mark that there has been soil subsistence (which the ADRE called a fissure) even though the fissure box was not marked or commented on. The second thing was the evidence that our well had gone dry in recent history. The ADRE stated that the real estate agent spoke to the "well digger" who told her the well was at 121 feet while the water was at 70 feet. There was no mention of any well issue aside from the ability to run an exterior hose at 3/4 volume and still maintain the water for the residence showers etc. In reality the well went dry in 2013 and burned out the pump. Some well person came and replaced the pump and installed a pump saver to shut the well off when it goes dry in the future.

Now, maybe to you this seems to be a wash but we surely feel like we have been defrauded. It will cost us 15-20K to remedy the situation and though a decent attorney is willing to take the case he felt we could win but would likely never see any money from the seller. So we decided to bite the bullet and pick a different battle while using our money to remedy the situation.

I am not sure what else we could have or should have done to protect ourselves ....just wanted to warn others. Sis


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## EAParent (May 31, 2014)

I'm so sorry to say this, but apparently I'm the first one that's willing to. 

You've not been defrauded. It's your responsibility to do your due diligence. Before purchase, you should have been aware of these issues. In fact, you should have been aware or every single issue.

Yes, getting all of that info would have cost a bit, but in the end you wouldn't have purchased property that you weren't prepared to deal with.


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## CraterCove (Jan 24, 2011)

Even when you ask direct questions of your agent and the seller's agent and they either intentionally or through their own ignorance fail to disclose there really seems to be about nothing to do about it.

The agents in our case outright lied about there being an HOA in our area when asked directly and all we can get from a lawyer is that we don't have any damages (despite the hoa saying no goats and no more than three of any allowable animal) and we bought 20 acres surrounded by no neighbors and state forest. Straightly stated; had we known of the hoa we would _never_ have purchased the property but lawyer says doesn't matter, we have no damages.

So disclosure laws or regulations are simply BS and unenforceable.


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## sisterpine (May 9, 2004)

You know, we tried hard to do our due diligence, I spoke to her well man, got a well report from the state and a well test from the driller, I was very clear with my realtor about not wanting to live where there were well problems or fissure issues. I spoke with the sellers realtor prior to coming out to see the house to confirm that the well is healthy and the land stable. What more am I to do? I walked the land hand the house inspected, ran the public records on the place. Yes the things in the spds should have led me to ask questions...which I did. It does not matter now, the house is ours and we will fix it up. But I swear I would never lie or cover up a problem with a property I was selling. My house sold in less than three days and I made sure the buyer knew both the good and the bad about the house before I accepted his offer.


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## joshcheney (Feb 2, 2011)

Disclosure: Currently practicing Maine agent

It's stuff like this that really upsets me. In Maine, those issues would have been classified as material defects - an issue that is significant enough that you would have made different choices in the buying process. If the seller or the seller's agent know of any material defects, they are required by law to disclose them. Personally, I take my disclosures a bit further - if there is anything wrong beyond basic wear and tear, let's have it out. First of all, it's the right thing to do. Period. Second, one of, if not *the* worst possible outcome of a transaction is to have the buyer withdraw due to a known but undisclosed material defect. I operate in a small enough community that once that happens, that property is basically toast, because nobody will want to take the risk that there is another issue that the seller didn't disclose. 

Now, that being said, I'd go after them if you have the resources to do so (even better if the attorney is willing to get paid by taking a cut of whatever you get). If you have a good case, there may be some monetary benefit to you, but that may be the only way to wake up this seller/seller's agent to the fact that they are screwing around with peoples lives, and there are consequences to doing so. 

Depending on the agency, I'd also talk to the seller's agent's designated broker (or whatever the term is in your state). The whole agency might be crooked, but if the agent is inexperienced or taking shortcuts, the responsible party at the agency has some ability and the responsibility to rein them in.

It's not a huge help, but it's only through people in your situation requiring the industry to do the right thing that anything is ever going to improve.

Josh


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## sisterpine (May 9, 2004)

Thank you for your response. I also thought the disclosure statement was a very serious matter when I sold my house. I listed every possible thing that would possibly affect my willingness to buy said house. The attorney says we have a winnable case however pulling the RE agent into it would be difficult and the seller has no funds with which pay for her error. It is really frustrating but sometimes a gal just has to move forward and beyond the insult. Blessings, sis


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## FarmerKat (Jul 3, 2014)

CraterCove said:


> Even when you ask direct questions of your agent and the seller's agent and they either intentionally or through their own ignorance fail to disclose there really seems to be about nothing to do about it.
> 
> The agents in our case outright lied about there being an HOA in our area when asked directly and all we can get from a lawyer is that we don't have any damages (despite the hoa saying no goats and no more than three of any allowable animal) and we bought 20 acres surrounded by no neighbors and state forest. Straightly stated; had we known of the hoa we would _never_ have purchased the property but lawyer says doesn't matter, we have no damages.
> 
> So disclosure laws or regulations are simply BS and unenforceable.


That really sucks! I cannot imagine being in your shoes because the HOA would be a total deal breaker for us as well. I am really sorry you found yourself in this situation. 

I have a question for you ... during this experience, have you found another way to find out if there is an HOA other than getting the info from the seller/seller's agent ahead of time. Since your property is secluded away from neighbors, I would not even think to go ask someone living nearby about an HOA. Is it somewhere in public records? Zoning?


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## CraterCove (Jan 24, 2011)

FarmerKat said:


> That really sucks! I cannot imagine being in your shoes because the HOA would be a total deal breaker for us as well. I am really sorry you found yourself in this situation.
> 
> I have a question for you ... during this experience, have you found another way to find out if there is an HOA other than getting the info from the seller/seller's agent ahead of time. Since your property is secluded away from neighbors, I would not even think to go ask someone living nearby about an HOA. Is it somewhere in public records? Zoning?


It's an interesting situation, really. The hoa is not properly registered with the state as it should be but it is registered with the county. Now, since it isn't registered with the state you'd think, 'oh, then they aren't legitimate.' However, all the hoa has to do is pay its back fees and lo and behold, they are! It's obviously just another revenue generating scheme for the State, they don't really enforce it, it seems, but they want their fees.

In all future transactions I will be doing more in depth research with the county offices now--- but the average buyer should not be expected to do this. The title company missed it (oh and reissued the title insurance after the fact). Never use an agent whose wife is on the opposite side of the table and they both work under the same agency and title company. We wanted to trust them and that turned out to be a bad idea.

On what positive side there is, I am now on the board for the HOA and have a good amount of pull because of our acreage. And I plan to buy more as time goes on. The HOA is mostly about the road maintenance and they don't really want to bother with any enforcement of anything because _many_ people have bought without knowing ahead of time there were restrictions. Very few of them like it. So as far as HOAs go, it's a pretty good one!


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## FarmerKat (Jul 3, 2014)

CraterCove said:


> It's an interesting situation, really. The hoa is not properly registered with the state as it should be but it is registered with the county. Now, since it isn't registered with the state you'd think, 'oh, then they aren't legitimate.' However, all the hoa has to do is pay its back fees and lo and behold, they are! It's obviously just another revenue generating scheme for the State, they don't really enforce it, it seems, but they want their fees.
> 
> In all future transactions I will be doing more in depth research with the county offices now--- but the average buyer should not be expected to do this. The title company missed it (oh and reissued the title insurance after the fact). Never use an agent whose wife is on the opposite side of the table and they both work under the same agency and title company. We wanted to trust them and that turned out to be a bad idea.
> 
> On what positive side there is, I am now on the board for the HOA and have a good amount of pull because of our acreage. And I plan to buy more as time goes on. The HOA is mostly about the road maintenance and they don't really want to bother with any enforcement of anything because _many_ people have bought without knowing ahead of time there were restrictions. Very few of them like it. So as far as HOAs go, it's a pretty good one!


Sounds like you are making the best of your situation. Thanks for responding


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