# Can someone tell me about this gun?



## countrytime (Sep 23, 2012)

I am looking at bartering for this gun..
1950s win model 12 in very good condition
This is what I asked and their reply:
Me: Does it have a 30 or 32 inch barrel? And also does it have a 2 9/16-inch chamber or 2 1/2? Or is it the "Heavy Duck Gun", chambered for 3-inch shells?
Reply: 3 inch 12 gauge 30 inch barrel nice gun I just can't shoot it that well

I know nothing about shotguns..my neighbor knows a lot yet he is out of town--I will wait until he gets back for him to go with me and inspect it..What do you all think?
I want the gun as a heavier or better alternative to my other only resource of a 410. 
Scared to death of the many pitbulls that run free around here and attack animals and threaten people.


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## vicker (Jul 11, 2003)

It will certainly put the .410 on the back shelf  Nice, sturdy gun.


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## Silvercreek Farmer (Oct 13, 2005)

What are you wanting to trade?


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## countrytime (Sep 23, 2012)

Silvercreek Farmer said:


> What are you wanting to trade?


$300 cash or a ready to butcher well fed pig. Seems like a pretty good deal.


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## Silvercreek Farmer (Oct 13, 2005)

Sounds like a fine deal if everything is in good shape. I wouldn't shoot steel in it, but bismuth would be an option if it were ever pressed back into duck service. The 12s were tough reliable guns, but I wouldn't want to run 1000's of rounds through one at the range as they aren't being made anymore. For the just in case around the house, it should do the trick and will probably appreciate better than a modern pump.


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## countrytime (Sep 23, 2012)

Silvercreek Farmer said:


> Sounds like a fine deal if everything is in good shape. I wouldn't shoot steel in it, but bismuth would be an option if it were ever pressed back into duck service. The 12s were tough reliable guns, but I wouldn't want to run 1000's of rounds through one at the range as they aren't being made anymore. For the just in case around the house, it should do the trick and will probably appreciate better than a modern pump.


Thank you for the information...I appreciate it-I hope it is in good shape--cant wait for my neighbor to look at it for me.
I would only use it for home protection if the need would arise-or shoot it a few times a year. I'm really hoping the shells are less expensive than the 410's.


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## farmerDale (Jan 8, 2011)

Oh the model 12 is a well known model and a well built and well liked shotgun. Very popular.
Go for it unless it is really beat up.


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## Silvercreek Farmer (Oct 13, 2005)

countrytime said:


> Thank you for the information...I appreciate it-I hope it is in good shape--cant wait for my neighbor to look at it for me.
> I would only use it for home protection if the need would arise-or shoot it a few times a year. I'm really hoping the shells are less expensive than the 410's.


410s are pretty much a specialty round vs a mainstream 12 and 20 gauges. Mainstream shells Shouldn't run you more than $6 a box or so for basic target rounds. Slugs, buckshot, specialty hunting rounds ect, usually run considerably more.


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## pheasantplucker (Feb 20, 2007)

I know the 12 is a great gun...I have Rem. 870, but I would think that a 410 would also be effective against a pitbull (unless it was a single shot). Put some buckshot in a 410 and see what it can do. The 410 is probably lighter, and perhaps you'd be more inclined to have it at the ready as you go about your chores. Course I'm all for getting another gun. Kind of like saws. My wife rolls her eyes when she sees that I have two oscillating saws, two circular saws, a jig saw, a scroll saw, two chain saws, a reciprocating saw, a table saw, a half dozen hand saws, three coping saws, a compound miter saw, a radial arm saw, and a couple of hacksaws.


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## alleyyooper (Apr 22, 2005)

Model 12 Winchesters are a well made shot gun in nearly every gauge bought by people who like quiality. Most were chambered for the 2 3/4 inch shells as is the 16 gauge I own. Even thought it is a 16ga I have been offered a good chunk of money for it, was My father in laws so it isn't for sale. I just holding it for the grand son any way.

 Al


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## dkhern (Nov 30, 2012)

ask more questions i dont believe they made 3" ammo in 1950


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## Steve L. (Feb 23, 2004)

countrytime said:


> I want the gun as a heavier or better alternative to my other only resource of a 410. Scared to death of the many pitbulls that run free around here and attack animals and threaten people.


No one's doing it here, but people seem like to run down the .410.

Here's some ballistic info - 

Federal 1/4 oz (109 grain slug) - 1775fps and 762lbs of energy at the muzzle
.44 mg (210 grain JHP) - ~1280fps and 760lbs of energy at the muzzle
.357 mag (125 grain Bonded Defense JHP) - 1600fps and 710lbs of energy at the muzzle

That 'little' .410 you're carrying is a .44/.357 Magnum.


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## Cabin Fever (May 10, 2002)

dkhern said:


> ask more questions i dont believe they made 3" ammo in 1950


 I didn't hink so either. Get a serial number and look up the date of manufacture. However, if it's in good condition, 300 bucks is not a bad price.

The only pump shotgun that I like better than the Model 12 is the Winchester Model 97.


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## countrytime (Sep 23, 2012)

Silvercreek Farmer said:


> 410s are pretty much a specialty round vs a mainstream 12 and 20 gauges. Mainstream shells Shouldn't run you more than $6 a box or so for basic target rounds. Slugs, buckshot, specialty hunting rounds ect, usually run considerably more.


1 box of shells (6 shot game load) is now over $14 a box. I only have 1 box
$6 sounds much better, in fact I was considering a 22 just because the cheap ammo.


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## countrytime (Sep 23, 2012)

pheasantplucker said:


> I know the 12 is a great gun...I have Rem. 870, but I would think that a 410 would also be effective against a pitbull (unless it was a single shot). Put some buckshot in a 410 and see what it can do. The 410 is probably lighter, and perhaps you'd be more inclined to have it at the ready as you go about your chores. Course I'm all for getting another gun. Kind of like saws. My wife rolls her eyes when she sees that I have two oscillating saws, two circular saws, a jig saw, a scroll saw, two chain saws, a reciprocating saw, a table saw, a half dozen hand saws, three coping saws, a compound miter saw, a radial arm saw, and a couple of hacksaws.


My 410 is a pump but you cannot shoot or load more than 1 shell at a time-it jams. My neighbor has kept it cleaned and oiled for and says it is missing a part (I can't remember what) to use the multi shell pump.


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## simi-steading (Sep 27, 2012)

The model 12 has always been a well regarded shotgun, but I believe you'r being feed a line about it being able to take the 3" shells. If it does take a 3" shell, it was one of their Heavy Duck Gun models, and would be worth a lot more than $300 since not too many were made. I'd be REAL careful about what you are really buying since he said it will take 3" shells... 

I had a chance to buy either a Model 12, or a Winchester 1300 when I bought my shotgun... I went with the 1300.. It does take a 3" shell, and it has changeable chokes, holds 6) 2 3/4" shells in the tube, and also has a ribbed barrel... 

It's been a fantastic shotgun, and I've not once wished I would have went with the Model 12, although both are great guns.


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## countrytime (Sep 23, 2012)

Steve L. said:


> No one's doing it here, but people seem like to run down the .410.
> 
> Here's some ballistic info -
> 
> ...


OH! Good information! My main concern is that recently 2 pitbulls got ahold of the farm dog and killed him at 5am--we didnt hear anything going on..Then they went to the neighbors and attacked their dog --now my kids & I are scared to go outside and do chores, especially after dark, without a weapon of somekind-This is the second encounter with loose pitbulls--their have been other breeds also--large dogs that pace the pasture fence, in our yard and growl at us, etc. etc..
I cannot afford multiple guns and ammo--looking for a good gun with cheap ammo mostly--but this gun sounds good.


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## simi-steading (Sep 27, 2012)

I had a friend years ago that got shot by his brother accidentally by a 410 in the stomach.... almost killed him... Spent a long time in the hospital... He had a really nasty scar on the front side, even worse on the back... 

Don't ever underestimate the damage a 410 can do....


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## Steve L. (Feb 23, 2004)

countrytime said:


> OH! Good information! My main concern is that recently 2 pitbulls got ahold of the farm dog and killed him at 5am--we didnt hear anything going on..Then they went to the neighbors and attacked their dog --now my kids & I are scared to go outside and do chores, especially after dark, without a weapon of somekind-This is the second encounter with loose pitbulls--their have been other breeds also--large dogs that pace the pasture fence, in our yard and growl at us, etc. etc..
> I cannot afford multiple guns and ammo--looking for a good gun with cheap ammo mostly--but this gun sounds good.


What 410 do you have now?

$300 will buy you 250, 3" 410 slugs.


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## greg_n_ga (May 4, 2012)

simi-steading said:


> The model 12 has always been a well regarded shotgun, but I believe you'r being feed a line about it being able to take the 3" shells. If it does take a 3" shell, it was one of their Heavy Duck Gun models, and would be worth a lot more than $300 since not too many were made. I'd be REAL careful about what you are really buying since he said it will take 3" shells...
> 
> I had a chance to buy either a Model 12, or a Winchester 1300 when I bought my shotgun... I went with the 1300.. It does take a 3" shell, and it has changeable chokes, holds 6) 2 3/4" shells in the tube, and also has a ribbed barrel...
> 
> It's been a fantastic shotgun, and I've not once wished I would have went with the Model 12, although both are great guns.


There also is gunsmiths out there that can "back bore" a barrel. Got a buddie that works on them for the shootin' match folks !! Course...iffin I had a Model 12, there would never be a hone placed in a stock original barrel !! I too would question the the 3" inch part !!


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## alleyyooper (Apr 22, 2005)

Some strange people out there who think nothing of ruining a old classic gun. I've seen them tapped for changeable chokes and the chamber bored for 3 inch shells too.

 Al


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## simi-steading (Sep 27, 2012)

True.. it could have been bored, but that would pretty much ruin it in my eyes.. It will weaken the barrel, and destroy the value.... I wouldn't even consider it if it's been bored..


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## countrytime (Sep 23, 2012)

Well here's the scope on the gun---the guy suddenly just disappeared off the face of the earth ????? no return e-mails or phone calls...I suspect either the gun was stolen, or it was some type of set up or something. Good thing I'm always wary of strangers anyway. Thanks for all of the information--especially the power of my 410--didn't realize that. Also the cost of the ammunition being $300 for 250--$300 is a lot of money for me right now to buy bullets, but maybe I'll save that money for bullets instead of looking for another gun. Thanks again for all the help.
One more question: What would be the best bullet for shooting at a dog? Probably from the distance of 50 to 100 feet?


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## simi-steading (Sep 27, 2012)

You need to recheck those shell prices.. You can get 250 rounds of slugs for $92.50.. You can get 50 rounds or #4 shot for $35.. 

Here's examples.. http://www.slickguns.com/category/ammo?caliber=8

As far as what's best for a dog at that range, I'd either go with slugs, or 000... Triple aught should run you around a buck 20 a shell... 

Yes, you can find ammo for more money too.... but you can also get it cheaper than $300 for 250 rounds..


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## Steve L. (Feb 23, 2004)

simi-steading said:


> You need to recheck those shell prices.. You can get 250 rounds of slugs for $92.50.. You can get 50 rounds or #4 shot for $35..
> 
> Here's examples.. http://www.slickguns.com/category/ammo?caliber=8
> 
> ...


That was Midway's price for Federal 3", I think. I was just pointing out that, for someone who's not planning to shoot a lot, buying a $300 gun to save $50 in ammo is strange economics. It's like having a car that's got 175,000 miles that burns a qt of oil a week. Do you get a valve job done?


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## simi-steading (Sep 27, 2012)

LOL.. OK.. I get it... but then again, saving $50 in ammo is a good reason to spend $300 on a new gun in my eyes.. any reason to get a new gun is a good reason to me


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## Steve L. (Feb 23, 2004)

countrytime said:


> Well here's the scope on the gun---the guy suddenly just disappeared off the face of the earth ????? no return e-mails or phone calls...I suspect either the gun was stolen, or it was some type of set up or something. Good thing I'm always wary of strangers anyway. Thanks for all of the information--especially the power of my 410--didn't realize that. Also the cost of the ammunition being $300 for 250--$300 is a lot of money for me right now to buy bullets, but maybe I'll save that money for bullets instead of looking for another gun. Thanks again for all the help.
> One more question: What would be the best bullet for shooting at a dog? Probably from the distance of 50 to 100 feet?


Too bad (maybe) about the model 12.

What 410 do you have now?

I said $300 will buy that much - they're $6 for a box of 5. 

If I was gonna use the .410, I'd use slugs. Buck shot would work, but I wouldn't trust it much over that 50' minimum you're talking about.


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## Steve L. (Feb 23, 2004)

simi-steading said:


> LOL.. OK.. I get it... but then again, saving $50 in ammo is a good reason to spend $300 on a new gun in my eyes.. any reason to get a new gun is a good reason to me


You need a REASON??? :hysterical::hysterical::hysterical:

ETA: I just need the money. :sob:


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## simi-steading (Sep 27, 2012)

Well.. yeah.. no reason needed really... I didn't buy the last gun I wanted because of money... Yes, I could have afforded it, but I could also have used that money in better places...


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## RonM (Jan 6, 2008)

Model 12 is somewhat of a collectors item around here........


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## uhcrandy (Sep 16, 2010)

In my mind, The Winchester Model 12 is the ideal shotgun. (Honestly any gun by John Browning is ideal in my mind.) I like what Cabin-fever said also about the Wincester 1897, Its also one of my favorites. There are recent re-manufactured 1897's (norinco??) that I am sure thinking about. Anyone have a recent 1897?


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## countrytime (Sep 23, 2012)

Steve L. said:


> That was Midway's price for Federal 3", I think. I was just pointing out that, for someone who's not planning to shoot a lot, buying a $300 gun to save $50 in ammo is strange economics. It's like having a car that's got 175,000 miles that burns a qt of oil a week. Do you get a valve job done?


I understand--I only had a few minutes to post earlier...to be more explicitly honest I was looking for another gun that did not have the jam problems of my present 410 before the big man changes the gun laws. I am however looking for the best "bang"  for my buck lol! I cant help it I'm cheap but want good well made stuff.


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## countrytime (Sep 23, 2012)

Steve L. said:


> What 410 do you have now?
> 
> $300 will buy you 250, 3" 410 slugs.


My 410 is a Springfield model 67F


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## braggscowboy (Jan 6, 2004)

Here is a Winchester Heavy Duck Model 12 solid rib, that I forgot that I had until seeing this post.It for sure is a 3".


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## braggscowboy (Jan 6, 2004)

OP, this is a very heavy made gun and hard to handle, if not stout. 3" mag for sure with 30" full.


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## Steve L. (Feb 23, 2004)

countrytime said:


> I understand--I only had a few minutes to post earlier...to be more explicitly honest I was looking for another gun that did not have the jam problems of my present 410 before the big man changes the gun laws. I am however looking for the best "bang"  for my buck lol! I cant help it I'm cheap but want good well made stuff.


I understand. :rock:


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## WestFork (Dec 20, 2012)

I grew up duck hunting with a model 12. My dad had it when he was young, and it is still in service today. It was the shotgun he trusted in the hands of his kid. I never had a misfire or jam. Just a great shotgun in every way. If yours is in good shape, snatch it up. It's a great pc. of gun history.


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## Nimrod (Jun 8, 2010)

Dad had a model 12 that he inherited from his uncle who used it on the farm in Iowa so it was pretty old. He used it for hunting. It can hold 7? shells so he could load it up and hunt all day. My next youngest brother scarfed it when dad died and still uses it. They can be collectors items now so don't refinish or reblue it.


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## countrytime (Sep 23, 2012)

That looks like a really nice gun..you forgot you had it? lol!


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## countrytime (Sep 23, 2012)

That gun looks bigger than me!  ..I remember the first time I shot a 12 gauge--no one warned me about this guns kick (I was just begining to shoot)--I weighed about 120 lbs and a clumsy girl, it knocked me on my butt..


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## countrytime (Sep 23, 2012)

braggscowboy... Is it for sale?


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## braggscowboy (Jan 6, 2004)

Countrytime, if you were in OKLA, might do some trading. As I said, forgot I had it and never shot it. I will just keep it, the guns have gone out of sight. I see this one online is 700.00 to 900.00 now. Not a good gun for all around use. Too heavy.


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## GREENCOUNTYPETE (Jul 25, 2006)

while the win m12 is a fine gun and worth the money , i think you would be better served to buy a lighter less expensive gun that is a bit newer maybe even 2 of them

410 is not legal to hunt in some states check local regs 

you can buy a new 12ga or 20ga of good manufacture for right around 300 

used guns in working order can be had for less around 200 for a used older pump mossberg 500 and remingtion 870 , winchester 1200 , ithica 37 are a few 

but if everyone needs a gun to go do chores with 22's may also be good marlin 795 with a 10 round mag and stingers may not be a shotgun but usfull and about 150 dollars 

hi point pistols can also be had for about 175 

depends what your looking for use full or one specific gun


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## countrytime (Sep 23, 2012)

I like the nostalgia of everything....yes I would like a 22 I think--the bullets are pretty inexpensive..my niece just bought a 20 gauge..she likes it a lot.


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## braggscowboy (Jan 6, 2004)

In my opinion, for what it is worth, I do not think that there is a better shotgun made than an 870 Remington. I like the vent rib in 12, but also have a 20. My 12 I purchased in 67 in a PX in Panama and shipped back, could not do that now! Great inexpensive weapon and will serve most purposes. Hope this helps!


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