# GMO crops killing dairy cattle ?????



## springvalley (Jun 23, 2009)

We have a very nice Reg. Holstein dairy herd in our area, has been there for many , many years. Owner is very old and has done a wonderful job raising prize winning cattle. The farm is a show place and the owner is a respected person in the neighborhood. This was overheard from someone visiting while looking at calves that were for sale. There were several people in the yard and some were vets. and some spoke a different language. Seems the dairy has been loosing cows the last few months, cows start going down hill and finally die. The vets can`t figure out what is going on, nothing abnormal that they have tested for, but yet the cows keep dropping. The only thing they have figured out was the farm started planting GMO corn and using it for feed for the cows the last two years. This is being kept on the down low as no one really knows what is going on. Could it be GMO crops? something else? no one knows for sure yet, but they are keeping things very quite. > Thanks Marc :run:


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## ksfarmer (Apr 28, 2007)

NO. There may be a problem with feed but not because of GMO.


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## Judy in IN (Nov 28, 2003)

Well, it might not be the corn. It might be that fungus that they've discovered where Roundup is used.

We're not supposed to discuss GMO on HT, though. We can discuss politics and religion, but GMO's are too hot to handle.


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## springvalley (Jun 23, 2009)

sorry Judy, I forgot, it seems to upset some on here. > Marc


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## Judy in IN (Nov 28, 2003)

Just curious, Marc....Is this a free stall barn system, or do the cows get some pasture?


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## springvalley (Jun 23, 2009)

I`m not sure, I haven`t been there in many years, not sure, but would say free stall sheds. > Marc


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## Judy in IN (Nov 28, 2003)

Marc,
You might want to pass along that information that I sent to you via pm to the owner.

He might recognize the symptoms there.

If his cows aren't on pasture, they are probably on an all-GMO diet.


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## haypoint (Oct 4, 2006)

We had a similar problem in Michigan about 30 years ago. Stillborn calves, strange hoof growth, cows dying. University checked feed and it was alright. Blamed farmers for their bad management. Most farmers kept quiet about itt, not wanting the neighbors to think they were having trouble. But the problem continued and spread. 
Then a farmer started finding dead rats. The rats were getting into his feed pellets. The pellets were a mineral protein supplement. So they had them tested. It tested just fine, nothing wrong with it. But when they tested it again, the machine was accidently left on and it showed something far down on the scale that they test for. It was PBB, used to retard fire. The chemical company, in St. Louis,MI, that made the feed pellets, also handled other chemicals. Fire Starter, brown bag with a red star was the brand name of the mineral for cattle. Fire Master, brown bag with a red star was the brand name for the fire retardant. PBB collects in the fat, secreted in the milk, absorbed by humans , secreted in human milk and absorbed in babies. Nearly everyone in Michigan that drank milk had/has PBB in them. Ron Howard did a movie, based on this true story, Bitter Harvest. 
Several dairy farms that have been plagued with health, have discovered that a poor electrical ground wire, sometimes not on the farm&#8217;s property, was causing low level electrical shock to the cows as they fed or were milked. 
Seems strange to me that this farmer only switched to GMO in the past 2 years while the majority of farmers switched 20 years ago?
But, if you are going to get a GMO myth rolling, best to do it before any tests or conclusions are found. Even better if you can keep it a bit of a secret. We don&#8217;t want a bunch of folks knowing about it and shining the light of truth. Write about something that is pure speculation, blame GMO, if people ask why they haven&#8217;t heard about it, say they are sequestering the witnesses. Then no one will doubt it. If the cause isn&#8217;t found, then it still could have been the GMO. If it is shown that GMO isn&#8217;t the cause, people will complain that the Health Department, USDA and Department of Ag were all bought off by Monsanto.


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## Judy in IN (Nov 28, 2003)

I see that the pit bull of Monsanto has been here. 

:nana:

I don't have to read his posts anymore, but I didn't think it would take this long for him to show up. :grin:


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## matt_man (Feb 11, 2006)

Marc - my Aunt Tara told me the story as well. I hope that they can find the answers. It must be so devastating for that old farmer. It's bad enough that milk prices are so bad and feed is so high but to start loosing parts of your herd to sickness and death on top of it must be so discouraging. Especially when you have no idea what is causing it so that you can fix it.


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## Johnny Dolittle (Nov 25, 2007)

I thought the moratorium on GMO debates was just for the Homesteading Questions forum. We have been discussing GMO in the gardening forum (concerning more practical issues).... one poster asked a question about composting GMO crops.

Roundup has been used for many years before GMO crops were made available.... such as pre plant applications or as a spot treatment applied by wick applicators. 

..... and seemed to be problem free.

i do not like the company Monsanto .... but I do not think GMO crops are killing these cows.


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## Lazy J (Jan 2, 2008)

Sounds like it might have been a mycotoxicosis, at first glance. But that isn't as sexy as blaming glyphosate resistent crops.


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## springvalley (Jun 23, 2009)

This is an old community, with alot of mennenite close by. I am sure he bought his corn from the mennenite seed company because they don`t believe in GMO corn. He was proably trying to save money with the GMO`s with not wanting to cultivate and only spray. And it may have nothing at all to do with GMO`s. It was stated that this was the only thing done different in the last two years on this farm. They may find it could be they changed the type of fuel they now use on the farm. Maybe it`s a different type of rubber boots that they wear in the barn yard. Or maybe it`s the birds that fly over, maybe they are pooping a deadly fungus in the cow yards. Maybe the only reason I posted this was to see if Haypoint would have a stroke about it.
We have no idea what the GMO crops will do to us because it has not been studied enough in my opinion. I am still a firm believer that messing with the genes of a plant and putting genetics in them they know nothing about the long term effects, is not healthy for us. This post was put on by me just because I wanted to tell what was going on with a farm that has just started using GMO corn, and now are having problems with their cattle. NO proof of anything, no proof that GMO`s are the true cause, just pure speculation. I don`t make the news I just report it, just like your local news program. > Thanks and God Bless America. > Marc


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## Lazy J (Jan 2, 2008)

There are MILLIONS of animals being fed commercial corn and soybean meal derived from commercial soybean varieties and there is not a widespread sudden death syndrome running rampant in our livestock industry. If anything our livestock producers are becoming more and more efficient. So I find it hard to believe that the GMO corn is the cause for the problem.

What about a vitamin D deficiency? There is a growing concern in the feed industry about the vitamin D supply.


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## randiliana (Feb 22, 2008)

:ashamed:


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## springvalley (Jun 23, 2009)

Could be Vit. D, pure speculation just like the GMO speculation. You guys have no idea about this farm. Money is no object when it comes to his cows, I am sure every vet from the state is or has been working on this problem. This man will leave no stone unturned when it comes to his cows, they are his life. And I know he will find out, it just may be a matter of time before they nail it down. And just say that perhaps it is the GMO crops, then I think we will never know, because lots of money will cover it up real fast. > Thanks Marc


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## linn (Jul 19, 2005)

Almost duplicate post.


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## linn (Jul 19, 2005)

Judy in IN said:


> I see that the pit bull of Monsanto has been here.
> 
> :nana:
> 
> I don't have to read his posts anymore, but I didn't think it would take this long for him to show up. :grin:


 
Don't worry about him. I have been accused of spreading hated by his cohort and told to shut up by him because they didn't like what I was saying.ound:


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## Judy in IN (Nov 28, 2003)

I wasn't aware that we could still post about this. Thank you, JD.

So I will post this link and let people make up their own minds.

Information is power. If the bullies of the world can squash information, they win.

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wnlTYFKBg18[/ame]

hp basically told me that it was my imagination that allergies were more plentiful now than in the 60's. Not so.....


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## springvalley (Jun 23, 2009)

If for some reason they lock down this post, I will post again on HT to let you all know what they find out. > Blessings Marc


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## linn (Jul 19, 2005)

Marc, has it been dry in your area? One our farmer friends had some of his beef cows abort after he turned them out on a cornstalk field. They tested the cornstalks and found that they contained an abnormally high percent of nitrates in them because of the dry weather. I found some info about drought stressed cornstalks on the net. If he is feeding them silage that may be it. I don't know if it would affect the grain.


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## Judy in IN (Nov 28, 2003)

linn said:


> Just wait until he tells you to shut up because he doesn't like what you are saying.ound:


AH! The beauty of the ignore feature is that I can't see him telling me to shut up, so there you go--Nirvana!

I don't have to read pm's, either.


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## Ross (May 9, 2002)

Yes the moratorium (not ban) on GMO Monsanto threads was just for selected boards and I am pretty sure its just HQ.


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## Lazy J (Jan 2, 2008)

What about high nitrates in the corn silage? The drought may have caused high levels in the corn which is not good for cattle.


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## Judy in IN (Nov 28, 2003)

There was a problem in drought areas with prussic acid killing cows.

I don't hear a lot about dying cows, but I doubt a farmer would be very proud of that.

I DO hear about heifers and cows not taking, even after being bred numerous times. Eventually they ship them. Who knows if it's mineral or vitamin deficiency or GMO's blocking the uptake of nutrients.

Who is going to fund research to find the culprit?


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## Lazy J (Jan 2, 2008)

I sure hope the farmer has a good team helping him discover the problems with his herd. In theses situations egos sometimes interfere with the investigation. The Veterinarian, Nutritionist, Herdsman, and everyone else involved in this farm need to work together to find the problem. 

I don't discount that the GMO crop MIGHT contribute, but the fact that there are not widespread cattle, pigs, chicken deaths doesn't give much credence to that theory.

What about stray voltage? Did they use a new inoculant for their silage? How is their hay supply? Has the supplier of the feed ingredients been included in the investigation? Have all of the feed ingredients been tested?


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## tab (Aug 20, 2002)

The Cornell Cooperative Extension had a recent artcle about Bt gmo corn loosing the effectiveness against corn root worms. Bt used to considered organic, iirc. The point is, not all gmo is the same. Apparently not that well thought out, either.

The gmo debate reminds me of when the propaganda was out about feeding animal protein to herbavores. Of course one of the problems was mad cow. There are enough scientists in countries like Denmark that question gmo that make me think that if it were without consequences, it could be proven. Guess it depends on the level of proof demanded. 

I hope the farmer in the op gets answers. He sounds like one of a dying breed. Sad, as the small holder that took even one death personally has pretty much gone by the wayside where I live.


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## haypoint (Oct 4, 2006)

From Cornell Extension: 

Plant a hybrid with a different Bt toxin Plant a stacked hybrid with two Bt toxins
http://www.ccejefferson.org/wp-content/uploads/2010/08/February-2012.pdf


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## ycanchu2 (Oct 21, 2011)

Not to offend the dairy producers on here, however, unless you are running a grassfed dairy....you are pushing against nature in more than one way.
First of all, cattle are herbivores...their natural diet is grass, hay. So feeding corn, SBmeal etc.in large quantities circumvents their natural diet.
Secondly, feeding a cow so that it gives huge volumes of milk is unnatural, if you tried to raise a calf on that same cow giving her the large amount of feed, the calf would die because of too much milk, scours etc.
Beef cow/calf producers have that same problem today...those who try to feed their cows like dairy cows.....a lot have heavy death losses in their baby calves. 
Most dairy producers raise their own replacement heifers, so several generations of cows can be raised in 30 or 40 years, so if they are given an unnatural diet this is being passed on to each subsequent generation.
It took a long time to create the dust bowl, so there is probably a tipping point out in the future for unnatural practices. JMHO


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## Ross (May 9, 2002)

I dunno I've fed BT and RR corn for years and not noticed much difference from OP corn from years ago. Hardly scientific I know and I do support further study on the topic, but there are some pretty extreme and polarized positions out there with little real world experience. Could be this dairy farm is the start of something or maybe the cows have some sensitive genetics, I hope they find the problem though!


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## tab (Aug 20, 2002)

Judy, thanks for that link. After almost thirty years of working with children, that explains much of what I have seen with extreme allergies, autism, etc. Also might explain why hfc is so very toxic.


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## linn (Jul 19, 2005)

As far as I can tell Marc never claimed to know that GMO was killing cattle. He put a ? with the title of the thread and then just presented the facts. I don't know that GMO is responsible for what happened to these cattle, but I do know from documented articles that the U.S. government does not always keep the public posted on research results. Many drugs have been released with the approval of the FDA and later have been found to cause drastic side effects.


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## springvalley (Jun 23, 2009)

As some of you on here may have not read all the posts, If you knew this dairy man, he will move heaven and earth to find out what is wrong here. The difference with this man and most dairy farmers is, he has bottomless pockets. He is not cheap, he is not frugal, he is smart. He will find out what it is, and may allready know. You don`t understand this man probably has every state Vet. plus many others working on this. I think he has irigation on his farm , so I don`t thinkthe dry weather would be a factor. And if it were, they would have cought that allready. These vets. will be the best money can buy, and they will find it. And I will let you all know when I know, could be maybe the genetics of this certain herd of cattle, can`t take a certain gene in a GMO crop, but then again this is just speculation. I will update you as i can. > Blessings Marc


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## Judy in IN (Nov 28, 2003)

Tab, you're welcome. Now do what I did and send it to everyone you know. 

Autism was something else that was unheard of when I was a youngster. You can almost see the difference in the generations. My Gfather's generation stayed pretty sharp until the end, people in my Dad's generation start to show a few disease trends. You get down to my generation and high blood pressure, heart problems, Alzheimer's, obesity, joints, digestive problems, thyroid, etc, etc, etc. my daughter's generation showed an increase in all health problems. 

We are at the top of the food chain and we're like the eagles and DDT. Eagles didn't eat sprayed crops; they ate the fish that swam in the run-off from those crops. They still almost went extinct. 

Looks like my heifers will have to be grass-fed. It's a sad thing when you can't trust the food supply. 

I'm setting up an aquaponics system this year. I'm thinking about incorporating fodder raising with it.


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## tab (Aug 20, 2002)

I just saw a fodder aquaponics system in a catalog. How very interesting. I have trouble sending links but have two families in mind in particular on the video, the title will suffice.

For human food, the co-op cannot be beat for the variety of non gmo and organic. Will have to check out the site, nongmoshopguide.com to see what else there is.


HP, thanks for proving one of my original points, cannot navigate on the phone like the desk top. That doesn't look like the article I read but to have to go from one to more than one form of Bt shows resistance of the corn rootworm. Resistance was the word used in the article I read. Resistance to what was a frontline organic insecticide is bad. Kind of like antibiotic resistant microbes are bad, i.e. MRSA. I am guessing you were trying to discredit me on some level, feel free.


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## AngieM2 (May 10, 2002)

Judy in IN said:


> Well, it might not be the corn. It might be that fungus that they've discovered where Roundup is used.
> 
> We're not supposed to discuss GMO on HT, though. We can discuss politics and religion, but GMO's are too hot to handle.


It started on the Homesteading Questions forum, and the moratium will be lifted soon. But the BE NICE rule be watched.

it never was a complete site moratorium.


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## FarmerDavid (Jul 16, 2012)

Judy in IN said:


> Well, it might not be the corn. It might be that fungus that they've discovered where Roundup is used.
> 
> We're not supposed to discuss GMO on HT, though. We can discuss politics and religion, but GMO's are too hot to handle.


What fungus is this ive never heard anything about that.


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## Lazy J (Jan 2, 2008)

FarmerDavid said:


> What fungus is this ive never heard anything about that.


 
This is from a series of lectures given by Dr. Huber, an emeritus professor from Purdue University, where he claims that there is a "new organism" growing in fields sprayed with glyphosate. He stated that the organism was too small to be seen via electron microscopes, but it is there.


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## haypoint (Oct 4, 2006)

ycanchu2 said:


> Not to offend the dairy producers on here, however, unless you are running a grassfed dairy....you are pushing against nature in more than one way.
> First of all, cattle are herbivores...their natural diet is grass, hay. So feeding corn, SBmeal etc.in large quantities circumvents their natural diet.
> Secondly, feeding a cow so that it gives huge volumes of milk is unnatural, if you tried to raise a calf on that same cow giving her the large amount of feed, the calf would die because of too much milk, scours etc.
> Beef cow/calf producers have that same problem today...those who try to feed their cows like dairy cows.....a lot have heavy death losses in their baby calves.
> ...


Corn and soybeans are good food for cows, but they aren't super foods. They cannot account for the gains in milk production we see today. Artificial Insemination, 500 years of careful selection, more comfortable housing all play a part to this improvement. 
I don't know of any beef guys that are losing calves due to too much milk and I don't think there are many dairy farmers turning thei calves loose on a 100 pound a day holstein. 
How far back you want to go? Man hasn't been a corn eater for very long. Most folks didn't have access to fields of grains either, until more recently. You giving up sugar, too. 
It didn't take long to create the dust bowl. We plowed up the prarie and had a couple dry years, suddenly the dirty Thirties were upon us.


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## haypoint (Oct 4, 2006)

Lazy J said:


> This is from a series of lectures given by Dr. Huber, an emeritus professor from Purdue University, where he claims that there is a "new organism" growing in fields sprayed with glyphosate. He stated that the organism was too small to be seen via electron microscopes, but it is there.


 http://www.i-sis.org.uk/USDA_scientist_reveals_all.php


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## Lazy J (Jan 2, 2008)

haypoint said:


> http://www.i-sis.org.uk/USDA_scientist_reveals_all.php


Thanks for the link, that is the first time I've seen reference to a specific pathogen.


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## linn (Jul 19, 2005)

Judy in IN said:


> Tab, you're welcome. Now do what I did and send it to everyone you know.
> 
> Autism was something else that was unheard of when I was a youngster. You can almost see the difference in the generations. My Gfather's generation stayed pretty sharp until the end, people in my Dad's generation start to show a few disease trends. You get down to my generation and high blood pressure, heart problems, Alzheimer's, obesity, joints, digestive problems, thyroid, etc, etc, etc. my daughter's generation showed an increase in all health problems.
> 
> ...


 My grandon has Asperger's syndrome. I, for one, would like to know what causes this. It is a form of Autism. I was in education for many years and the number os autistic and Aspergers cases have risen. I don't pretend to know what causes this, but I believe it has to do with vacinations and genetically altered food sources. Until you have experienced the heart ache and difficulties with these syndroms, you will have no idea what the impact on society and the family these disabilities cause. Don't discount the alternative reseach concerning the causes of these and many other conditions.


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## ycanchu2 (Oct 21, 2011)

haypoint said:


> Corn and soybeans are good food for cows, but they aren't super foods. They cannot account for the gains in milk production we see today. Artificial Insemination, 500 years of careful selection, more comfortable housing all play a part to this improvement.
> *I don't know of any beef guys that are losing calves due to too much milk* and I don't think there are many dairy farmers turning thei calves loose on a 100 pound a day holstein.
> How far back you want to go? *Man hasn't been a corn eater for very long.* *Most folks didn't have access to fields of grains either, until more recently. You giving up sugar, too. *
> It didn't take long to create the dust bowl. We plowed up the prarie and had a couple dry years, suddenly the dirty Thirties were upon us.


I had a guy ask me a couple of years ago..."Do you have very much scours in your baby calves?" I said hardly ever but if I do it clears up in a couple of days. The last time I lost one to scours, well I can't remember that far back. He said his brother in law has a big problem with it and has lost several baby calves and does so every year. I asked him" What does he feed his cows?" he said "he feeds them the best, hay plus corn and i forgot what else he said, I told him that was the problem, he's feeding his cows too much.
My Dad built a 24x80 silo 40years ago to feed the cows thru the winter with "cheap silage", after not too many years he abandoned it, I didn't know why at the time, but a few years ago I asked him why he quit feeding the silage to his cows he said " I was losing too many calves every year to scours". So now its just grass and hay with no more scour problems.

I'm not talking about people I was referring to cattle. Humans are omnivores, cattle are herbivores.


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## AverageJo (Sep 24, 2010)

Lots of good suggestions here. I'm sure SpringValley will try to get these sugestions to the farmer to see what he's found out. Judy, I watched the entire 1 hour plus video this morning when it was being passed around Facebook. It had way too many documents, tests, correlations, studies, etc. to be easily dismissed. But I'm sure there are a lot that will just blow it off and continue the way they are. That's their choice and I'm glad I still have a choice of my own to make. Hope we always retain that right.


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## SueMc (Jan 10, 2010)

I'm posting this here because of the moratorium on GMO discussion in a more general area.

Something I'd love to see on HT is (maybe) a stickie with links of GMO articles and video, both pro and con and most importantly, links to sources of animal feed and people food that are NOT genetically engineered. It would be easier to have a repository of sources to go to rather than try to hunt them down in individual postings. 
It would also be great if individuals here would post their local or in-State sources for mills, feed stores, farmers, etc., that sell non-GMO feeds and seed. 
I just think we'd do each other a great service by sharing all we can about non-GMO products as those products seem to be diminishing by the minute!

Here are some examples of what I'm talking about:

Article about animals exposed to GM feed:
http://www.organicconsumers.org/documents/report_on_animals_exposed_to_gmos.pdf

Non-GMO shopping guide:
http://action.responsibletechnology.org/p/salsa/web/common/public/signup?signup_page_KEY=7042

Non-GMO sourcebook:
Among other things, this especially good site lists companies producing non-gmo livestock feed. I'm especially interested in this as it doesn't do much good to avoid gmo food at the store then feed it to our livestock (See article in first link).
http://nongmosourcebook.com/index.php

While I have also been involved in a few GMO discussions here and know they will continue, I just think we would gain good solid information and be able to shop in a more informed manner if we shared this info.

(Sorry Marc to have gotten off your OP)


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## Ross (May 9, 2002)

FYI the moratorium on GMO threads has ben lifted on the HQ board


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## Judy in IN (Nov 28, 2003)

Sue, How far are you from Arthur, IL? It seems to me that you might contact an Amish farmer and get grain from him. Find a little old gravity wagon to store your grain and tarp over the top.


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## Wanda (Dec 19, 2002)

Judy in IN said:


> Sue, How far are you from Arthur, IL? It seems to me that you might contact an Amish farmer and get grain from him. Find a little old gravity wagon to store your grain and tarp over the top.


 I am close to Arthur and the Amish plant the same seed as everyone else. Not all seed sold is GM so there are a lot of everyday farmers raising non GM corn!


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## Lazy J (Jan 2, 2008)

Judy in IN said:


> Sue, How far are you from Arthur, IL? It seems to me that you might contact an Amish farmer and get grain from him. Find a little old gravity wagon to store your grain and tarp over the top.


My Amish neighbors use the same GMO hybrids and varieties that I use. they also spray more than I do, plus they don't have the technology that I use to limit spray drift.


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## Judy in IN (Nov 28, 2003)

That's too bad. I know it all depends on the elder leader for each particular colony. The Amish near Spencer, IN won't even feed soy to their animals. The ones near Rockville are all about organic. I'm going down next week on a cheese run. YUM!


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