# No meat for Hunter



## AZSongBird1973 (Jun 10, 2018)

My son went to a friend's house on Sunday for a few hours to "hang out". I know the parents, the boys were in the same class, he's been over there before and the friend has been to my house too. Sunday night he tells me he's not hungry and doesn't want supper. This morning he gets his typical breakfast of a smoothie and a bagel. Lunch time he made a pb&j. I grilled some pork chops for supper..one of his favs..and again he tells me he's not hungry. After some strategic mom prying I found out that they watched a PETA video at the friends house...encouraged by the parents...and now my kid doesn't want to eat meat. I've seen those videos and I understand why. You'd have to know my son to fully understand. He has an old soul and is really sensitive to other people's... and critters pain. He's a good kid. I've tried to reason with him and counter the bad with the positive and he's not budging. My first stop tomorrow will be at the friends house to have a discussion with the parents...I'm real pissed about that.


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## IndyDave (Jul 17, 2017)

I could certainly understand that you would not be the least bit happy about these people taking it upon themselves to show your 10 year old PETA shock videos. I would certainly feel inclined to demonstrate that Nazism isn't dead.


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## Oregon1986 (Apr 25, 2017)

I'd put a foot in their (grits*) That is not ok and they should of asked first. I hope you make it clear to them that what they did was wrong




* original wording exceeds HT requirements


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## Skamp (Apr 26, 2014)

Your attention is wrongly addressed. 

A child should know where meat comes from, and the very mechanisms that relate such. Be it wild, or domesticated, you should have made the facts known. 

That’s also true in tomato husbandry.


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## Skamp (Apr 26, 2014)

Oregon1986 said:


> I'd put a foot in their ass! That is not ok and they should of asked first. I hope you make it clear to them that what they did was wrong


It’s always somebody else’s fault. 

No need to teach a kid to think, we’ll blame the teachers.


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## AZSongBird1973 (Jun 10, 2018)

Oregon1986 said:


> I'd put a foot in their ass! That is not ok and they should of asked first. I hope you make it clear to them that what they did was wrong


I'm going to have to try and remain calm...I'm that angry.


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## Oregon1986 (Apr 25, 2017)

Skamp said:


> It’s always somebody else’s fault.
> 
> No need to teach a kid to think, we’ll blame the teachers.


I'm not going to argue with you skamp because it never gets me anywhere


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## Oregon1986 (Apr 25, 2017)

AZSongBird1973 said:


> I'm going to have to try and remain calm...I'm that angry.


I would be too. I'm big on not pushing beliefs on others


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## AZSongBird1973 (Jun 10, 2018)

Oregon1986 said:


> I would be too. I'm big on not pushing beliefs on others


Honestly I don't try and shelter my kids from the harsh realities of life but I do believe things have to be handled in an age and personality appropriate manner. In other words I don't hide the ugly but I dont expose it to them in its rawest form. If they had approached me about it i would have spoken to him about it and offered to watch it with them. I could have prepared him and he would have responded differently.


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## Skamp (Apr 26, 2014)

Oregon1986 said:


> I'm not going to argue with you skamp because it never gets me anywhere


I spent Saturday teaching an 11 year old to bait cast a net. The bait will be used next weekend for a greater return. 

I spent yesterday with a 9 year old rigging, casting, retrieving, etc. 

Both went through weeding and harvesting before said protein runs. 

The 11 year old enjoyed filleted Rainbow for dinner, hook caught. The 9 year old enjoyed deep fried Bluegill. Both got the benefits of a garden. 

I’ve been through a few hunting seasons with these two, I’ll spare the details. They know nose to tail, and how it’s done. They can’t replicate everything they’ve been shown, but it’s not foreign. They do have a reverence from where their food comes from, and it wasn’t taught by a neighbor/friend.


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## AZSongBird1973 (Jun 10, 2018)

Skamp said:


> Your attention is wrongly addressed.
> 
> A child should know where meat comes from, and the very mechanisms that relate such. Be it wild, or domesticated, you should have made the facts known.
> 
> That’s also true in tomato husbandry.


Your assumption that my son doesn't know what's what about where his food comes from is not only incorrect but unwelcome. I thought about posting a series of pictures showing him with a variety of domestic and wild game harvesting but I don't have anything to prove to you and quite frankly, you're not worth it.


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## AZSongBird1973 (Jun 10, 2018)

Skamp said:


> I spent Saturday teaching an 11 year old to bait cast a net. The bait will be used next weekend for a greater return.
> 
> I spent yesterday with a 9 year old rigging, casting, retrieving, etc.
> 
> ...


It's great that you're taking the time to teach these children some things. Let's hope they learn their social skills and how to generally treat people from someone else.


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## Skamp (Apr 26, 2014)

AZSongBird1973 said:


> You assumption that my son doesn't know what's what about where his food comes from is not only incorrect but unwelcome. I thought about posting a series of pictures showing him with a variety of domestic and wild game harvesting but I don't have anything to prove to you and quite frankly, you're not worth it.



Then I’ll make my first assumption, nobody was listening.


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## Skamp (Apr 26, 2014)

AZSongBird1973 said:


> It's great that you're taking the time to teach these children some things. Let's hope they learn their social skills and how to generally treat people from someone else.



They check me on that from time to time, and are encouraged to do so.

I’ll add, they are not as thin skinned as the general population, and realize such.


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## CajunSunshine (Apr 24, 2007)

It's true that some in the general population have gone PC-crazy/thin-skinned to the point of stupidity. But what is more tragic than that: old-fashioned values such as common decency and respect are going out of style. I blame some of it on the fact that rudeness, bullying and just general meanness can hide behind keyboards without any consequences.

The days of accountability are pretty much in the past, and so the weaker and mouthier bullies flourish... it's a sad sign of the times.

What is sadder than that, is the fact that there will always be those who are compelled to maintain such a tough shell that they die lonely, even when surrounded by people.


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## Skamp (Apr 26, 2014)

CajunSunshine said:


> It's true that some in the general population have gone PC-crazy/thin-skinned to the point of stupidity. But what is more tragic than that: old-fashioned values such as common decency and respect are going out of style. I blame some of it on the fact that rudeness, bullying and just general meanness can hide behind keyboards without any consequences.
> 
> The days of accountability are pretty much in the past, and so the weaker and mouthier bullies flourish... it's a sad sign of the times.



You conveniently left off the posers, prom queens, quarterbacks, and WWE wrestlers.


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## CajunSunshine (Apr 24, 2007)

Oh hey, some in that crowd are some of the worst, most pitiful excuses of grandiosity. We all know their kind, too.


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## muleskinner2 (Oct 7, 2007)

I am sorry to hear this. He is not their son, and it is not their call. Keep your cool, people like that will call the law in a heart beat.


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## CajunSunshine (Apr 24, 2007)

AZSongBird1973 said:


> *I've tried to reason with him and counter the bad with the positive and he's not budging.* My first stop tomorrow will be at the friends house to have a discussion with the parents...I'm real pissed about that.




What is done is done, and it probably would not do any good to talk to the parents. (After all, if they are nutty enough to "PETA-educate" other people's young children without parental consent, they are probably too rabid to talk with anyway.) It might be better for your son to forego visits there, especially considering their friendship was not exactly a long-standing or tight one to begin with. Rather than outright ban the friendship, if your son is invited over there again, just say y'all have other plans (and that could be your cue to make fun plans for the two of you, lol). I suspect that the less you say to your son about the previous visit, the better, or else run the risk of further entrenching things in the wrong direction. Then all your efforts could backfire...

It may do more good to concentrate on giving your son a well-rounded education about animals that are HUMANELY raised and slaughtered.

Here are some things you can look into before talking with your son about the other side of the coin, so to speak.

https://insteading.com/blog/buying-ethical-meat-at-the-store/ (scroll down to "Certified Humane")

http://www.eatwild.com/products/farmsthatship.html (read the farm descriptions of humanely raised animals, etc.)


Consider taking him to local farms and small dairies where animals are treated humanely, and buy from them. Visit the farms yourself first (maybe while he is in school?). The farms in my area have happy cows that are hand-milked, free-ranging chickens, etc.

http://www.eatwild.com/
https://www.humaneitarian.org/where-do-i-buy-humanelyraised-meat/#.W2AMXNJKirw


Sidebar thought:

You may also want to research and point out to him about increasing evidence of health problems that are associated with long-term veganism. (It is all about balance: a diet that contains too much meat is unhealthy; long-term veganism has its problems, too.)

Interestingly, there has been evidence that a diet that includes fresh organic vegetables, and modest amounts of eggs, dairy and meat from organic and humanely raised animals do not cause the health problems that a diet consisting of conventionally raised animals do.

(I don't have the time to call the evidence up, but anyone can Google it.)


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## Terri (May 10, 2002)

My daughter went through a vegetarian stage. I did not make much of it and after a while it wore off


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## IndyDave (Jul 17, 2017)

Skamp said:


> Your attention is wrongly addressed.
> 
> A child should know where meat comes from, and the very mechanisms that relate such. Be it wild, or domesticated, you should have made the facts known.
> 
> That’s also true in tomato husbandry.





Skamp said:


> It’s always somebody else’s fault.
> 
> No need to teach a kid to think, we’ll blame the teachers.


Seriously? You don't see that first raising her son is her prerogative and second that there is a huge difference between understanding the origins of food and being shown a PETA film that is deliberately engineered to gag a maggot?


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## wdcutrsdaughter (Dec 9, 2012)

Songbird, just wanted to add that you are doing a good job as a parent. We can all see that from here.
Good luck with your boy.


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## GTX63 (Dec 13, 2016)

I'll try and stay on point and also reaffirm what it sounds like you already know and others have stated.
Common sense dictates you don't indoctrinate someone else's children into your lifestyle, especially without their parent's consent. I don't hand Bibles out to every one that walks in our door, but we do try to live by example.
If they don't eat meat, ok. If your son goes over there he'll know soon enough if he stays for dinner. He might find the vegetarian lifestyle a little more appealing at the dinner table than from a slaughterhouse.
Yes, it was wrong. Yes I would speak to them about it. They'll likely also be offended.
The term "Our house our rules" does not apply when it affects attempting to mold another child's values without their parent's consent.
Sould their parents be concerned if you disguised your pork chops as "Veggie Steaks" and then told your son's friend afterwards and joking said "See, they are pretty good, hugh?"


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## AZSongBird1973 (Jun 10, 2018)

GTX63 said:


> Sould their parents be concerned if you disguised your pork chops as "Veggie Steaks" and then told your son's friend afterwards and joking said "See, they are pretty good, hugh?"


I like this one GTX and will probably borrow it when I go by there today.


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## AZSongBird1973 (Jun 10, 2018)

CajunSunshine said:


> What is done is done, and it probably would not do any good to talk to the parents. (After all, if they are nutty enough to "PETA-educate" other people's young children without parental consent, they are probably too rabid to talk with anyway.) It might be better for your son to forego visits there, especially considering their friendship was not exactly a long-standing or tight one to begin with. Rather than outright ban the friendship, if your son is invited over there again, just say y'all have other plans (and that could be your cue to make fun plans for the two of you, lol). I suspect that the less you say to your son about the previous visit, the better, or else run the risk of further entrenching things in the wrong direction. Then all your efforts could backfire...
> 
> It may do more good to concentrate on giving your son a well-rounded education about animals that are HUMANELY raised and slaughtered.
> 
> ...


Funny thing is that the majority of my work is on dairys so he's been on them his whole life too. We buy almost all of our meat from a local meat cutter/butcher shop, and he's been in hunting camp and on the lake with me since he was an infant. That's my lifestyle so it's been his too.
I think it's the shock of what he saw because he has seen the more humane approach. It's just another reason why I can't wait to move as far away from the city life as I can.
He will bounce back I'm sure. My plan is to cook as many of his favorite meats until the smell drives him back to reality lol! Starting with bacon this morning! 
I'm most upset with what those people did. I will be talking to them today. I will do my best to be civil. Obviously now that friends house is on the black list and I doubt his parents will be letting him come to my house so they will have to be friends at school...that's the saddest part of all!


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## barnbilder (Jul 1, 2005)

I wouldn't say a danged word. After properly explaining things to your son, and bringing him back to the light, and after a few pork chop meals, I would have their kid over. I would make sure that it was butchering day. I wouldn't care if it brought them to their senses or if they needed therapy. But they would be able to learn that reality is starkly different than animal rights propaganda films. I got to take a friend of my daughter's (raised and indoctrinated by daft vegans) hunting a while back. She loved it. Campfire, hounds, meat cooked over an open fire, who could not love that? She might not be allowed to come back, but she won't forget what she experienced. 

Part of parenting is exposing kids to many viewpoints and letting them decide what is right based on the abilities to reason you have instilled in them. If your kid is not mentally deficient, they will figure out what is a load of manure, in time. If other parents are right, their superior thought processes and parenting skills will win back the ground that you took from their indoctrination program. This is a great teachable moment for you. 

Teach your kid how propaganda and peer pressure work, with their victimhood as an illustration. How propaganda was able to convince them that pork chops, that they previously loved, were inedible. Make sure and point out that the people that made those films care so much about animals that they often pay some drunk homeless person to torture animals for a photo op. (They have been caught doing so.) I don't care how old they are they are old enough to understand this stuff, if you bother explaining it.


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## Bret (Oct 3, 2003)

A teachable moment. Keep on the trail. Deer Camp Season is almost upon us. Good work.


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## GTX63 (Dec 13, 2016)

Some parents will believe that their kids should be free to make their own decisions. Some parents will rule over their kids up until the time they leave home. I've seen kids 10-12 do and choose as they see fit, and other kids come back from college waiting for answers from mom and dad about basic life choices.
As much of a drill instructor style parent as I have been, I did not, and still do not believe you can raise kids inside of a box. I mean that there is no book or formula one size fits all. You give them your values and ethics and at a time you are comfortable with their level of discernment, you loosen the ropes. Note that I said you. It isn't for anyone else to determine what is best for your kids; not the neighbors, your mother in law, the government or social services.


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## AZSongBird1973 (Jun 10, 2018)

Bret said:


> A teachable moment. Keep on the trail. Deer Camp Season is almost upon us. Good work.


Except I didn't get a rifle tag this year...again. But we can go get an over the counter archery tag...again lol! More fun anyways!


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## barnbilder (Jul 1, 2005)

Animal rightists don't love animals. They hate people. That is the basis of their derangement. They don't like people, so they convince themselves that animals are better and that animals are smarter and animals are more important and all of these things. They feel more connected to animals. They are generally very misguided, and often not highly intelligent, and often ruled more by emotion than logic. Most of what they do revolves around punishing people, not helping animals. They don't care about the frogs and songbirds that get mashed up with farm machinery to meet the world's protein needs with non-meat food production. They want to punish cattle farmers and pig farmers. They don't care that purebred dogs account for a tiny percentage of shelter pets, because purpose bred pure breeds have a higher statistical advantage of meeting their owner's expectations, they want to punish people that breed dogs. They don't want chickens raised in a broiler house, they want them outside in the fresh air, where they can be torn to shreds by predators, because they don't care about chickens, they care about punishing human beings that make a living raising chickens. They break into fur farming facilities and free the domesticated minks that are raised to satisfy a demand without depleting wild species, so that the minks who were born in captivity starve and die. Obviously not because they like minks, but because they hate people who choose to wear clothing made with environmentally friendly, renewable, biodegradable materials with a high insulative value. Pro animal equals anti human, in almost every case.


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## AZSongBird1973 (Jun 10, 2018)

There are a lot of teachable moments here. And some for myself even. Trust me, my first thought was to go hang a half skinned dead coyote on the porch of they're fancy custom home in the fancy subdivision where you can reach out your bathroom windows and hit the neighbors house. Then I thought of making a big platter of different cooked up meats and taking it over all covered up till I got in the house and whipping the cover off to see the horror on their faces. But then I calmed down a little lol. If I were to do the opposite to their son then I would be no better than they are. These are 10 year olds...not teens. If they were teens, I probably would handle it differently.


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## Oxankle (Jun 20, 2003)

I would be a bit angry too, AZ. Some discussions are just not appropriate for young children. They do not need an explanation of embalming, of the various treatments for intestinal disorders, or what might be the results of stepping on a land mine. Such things must be age-appropriate, sort of like the birds and bees discussion. 

When you have cooled off enough to point out to your son that what he saw was propaganda put out by people who are half-idiot and 49% human-haters with just a touch of genuine concern for animals he will have a better perspective. You know the rest of that discussion.

Then I would tell the boy that he is not to visit that home again. His friend, if you think it wise, could visit at your place, but I'd not let the boy be exposed to those adults again. One bad habit you know, there are probably others.


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## Oxankle (Jun 20, 2003)

Barnbuilder---your post hih as I was typing. We are pretty much of the same opinion.


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## frogmammy (Dec 8, 2004)

Hmmm...10 years old. That's about the time my daughter swore off meat. For about two weeks.

I think one of her kids...she had 7....believe it was a daughter, who swore off meat for a while. Didn't last.

Could be it's just something that some kids go through, for whatever reason, as a rite of passage to adulthood.

Mon


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## Dutchie (Mar 14, 2003)

barnbilder said:


> Animal rightists don't love animals. They hate people. That is the basis of their derangement. They don't like people, so they convince themselves that animals are better and that animals are smarter and animals are more important and all of these things. They feel more connected to animals. They are generally very misguided, and often not highly intelligent, and often ruled more by emotion than logic. Most of what they do revolves around punishing people, not helping animals. They don't care about the frogs and songbirds that get mashed up with farm machinery to meet the world's protein needs with non-meat food production. They want to punish cattle farmers and pig farmers. They don't care that purebred dogs account for a tiny percentage of shelter pets, because purpose bred pure breeds have a higher statistical advantage of meeting their owner's expectations, they want to punish people that breed dogs. They don't want chickens raised in a broiler house, they want them outside in the fresh air, where they can be torn to shreds by predators, because they don't care about chickens, they care about punishing human beings that make a living raising chickens. They break into fur farming facilities and free the domesticated minks that are raised to satisfy a demand without depleting wild species, so that the minks who were born in captivity starve and die. Obviously not because they like minks, but because they hate people who choose to wear clothing made with environmentally friendly, renewable, biodegradable materials with a high insulative value. Pro animal equals anti human, in almost every case.


While I agree with you to a certain point, there are many animal welfare activists who DO care about the animals' well being. They realize that animals are sentient beings who have a right to be treated and killed humanly. This is not the case in factory farming with the added results that their meat is not healthy for human consumption. I raise my own chickens for eggs, buy my meat from locals and know they are pasture raised as well as venison When I raised beef and pork the butcher would come and shoot them in the field and pre-processed them in his trailer with running hot water. Many can choose to live this way. 

It doesn't take much to be more humane.

(I do, however, agree with the general assessment of PETA. They are nut cases).


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## barnbilder (Jul 1, 2005)

Dutchie said:


> While I agree with you to a certain point, there are many animal welfare activists who DO care about the animals' well being. They realize that animals are sentient beings who have a right to be treated and killed humanly. This is not the case in factory farming with the added results that their meat is not healthy for human consumption. I raise my own chickens for eggs, buy my meat from locals and know they are pasture raised as well as venison When I raised beef and pork the butcher would come and shoot them in the field and pre-processed them in his trailer with running hot water. Many can choose to live this way.
> 
> It doesn't take much to be more humane.
> 
> (I do, however, agree with the general assessment of PETA. They are nut cases).


There is a difference between animal rights and animal welfare. Also, can you give specific details about factory farmed meat not being healthy for human consumption. Is it the anti-biotics or the GMO soy that is the problem?


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## Oregon1986 (Apr 25, 2017)

Did you pay the parents a visit?


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## reneedarley (Jun 11, 2014)

My daughter was raised on a farm where we always raised, and slaughtered our own animals. She also went through a period when she was vegetarian. I concentrated on teaching her how to eat a healthy vegetarian diet. She stayed vegetarian for about two years. Now she has the same views on meat as I do. We eat it but are not too keen on the taste. When we do eat meat, we choose home grown.


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## Dutchie (Mar 14, 2003)

barnbilder said:


> There is a difference between animal rights and animal welfare. Also, can you give specific details about factory farmed meat not being healthy for human consumption. Is it the anti-biotics or the GMO soy that is the problem?


Yes, there is a big difference.

Animal raised in a factory farming environment are less healthy, more stressed and are loaded with anti-biotics etc.


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## Kiamichi Kid (Apr 9, 2009)

IndyDave said:


> Seriously? You don't see that first raising her son is her prerogative and second that there is a huge difference between understanding the origins of food and being shown a PETA film that is deliberately engineered to gag a maggot?


I can guess who it is you're talking to just by your response to them..lol I've blocked those that troll here and am much happier for it.


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## Oxankle (Jun 20, 2003)

After I retired I raised cattle for about 20 years. I met, knew, grew up around cattlemen. Not one of them will tell you that it is more profitable to be cruel to your animals than it is to be kind and gentle. Some of these fellows had hundreds of animals, some less than a dozen, but not one of them mistreated an animal or handled it more roughly than was needed for its own welfare.

I have known men who kept old cows and old bulls on grass pension long after their productive years were gone---One fellow put it this way; "She's brought me 23 calves; she can stay as long as she wants."

It is simple foolishness to think that the men who own the so-called factory farms do not know this. They are business men and will not put an animal out on pension, but they darn sure know that cruelty is not profitable. The people who complain about caged laying hens, pig farms and calves fed out for veal are attributing human qualities and rights to animals. Dogs and cats already have human rights--when pigs get up there with dogs I am going to eat pork anyway.


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## Echoesechos (Jan 22, 2010)

That would tick me off too. My niece had some "kind" old battle teach her how awful her mother was when she was just a little older than your son. This aunty went ballistic. She said she thought she needed to know cause she was sure no one had explained it to her. Why people think it's ok to meddle or push their own agendas is beyond me.
I agree with you about talking to them. They tried to supersede your parental control.


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## HermitJohn (May 10, 2002)

Terri said:


> My daughter went through a vegetarian stage. I did not make much of it and after a while it wore off


I agree with Terri, dont make a big deal over it, if the kid hadnt been exposed to ideas different than yours before, he would be at some point. He may be a two week vegetarian or a lifelong vegetarian. So what? My biggest worry would be if its long term that he learn how to eat healthy, some "ethical" vegetarians just eliminate meat and try to live on junk food. But its quite possible to live long and prosper on a vegetarian diet, even a vegan diet. Lot American meat eaters dont eat very healthy overall diet.

The vibe I am picking up on is you are most worried about fitting in with family social activities around hunting, if he becomes a longer term vegetarian. Teens rebel, its the nature of the beast, you cant force them to follow in your footsteps forever. Eventually they make up their own minds for better or worse. I am sure some parents that are vegetarian have had their kids be exposed to hamburgers and hotdogs at friends houses, and join in. Would you be similarly upset if that happened?


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## AZSongBird1973 (Jun 10, 2018)

Oregon1986 said:


> Did you pay the parents a visit?


Yes I did...will post the results here in a few.


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## GTX63 (Dec 13, 2016)

AZSongBird1973 said:


> Yes I did...will post the results here in a few.


...or did you mean post bail?


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## Oregon1986 (Apr 25, 2017)

AZSongBird1973 said:


> Yes I did...will post the results here in a few.


Lol ok


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## AZSongBird1973 (Jun 10, 2018)

HermitJohn said:


> I agree with Terri, dont make a big deal over it, if the kid hadnt been exposed to ideas different than yours before, he would be at some point. He may be a two week vegetarian or a lifelong vegetarian. So what? My biggest worry would be if its long term that he learn how to eat healthy, some "ethical" vegetarians just eliminate meat and try to live on junk food. But its quite possible to live long and prosper on a vegetarian diet, even a vegan diet. Lot American meat eaters dont eat very healthy overall diet.
> 
> The vibe I am picking up on is you are most worried about fitting in with family social activities around hunting, if he becomes a longer term vegetarian. Teens rebel, its the nature of the beast, you cant force them to follow in your footsteps forever. Eventually they make up their own minds for better or worse. I am sure some parents that are vegetarian have had their kids be exposed to hamburgers and hotdogs at friends houses, and join in. Would you be similarly upset if that happened?


Whether he eats meat or doesn't isn't the issue I have. It's about the fact that someone other than myself took it upon themselves to expose my son to something that was inappropriate and way to graphic and shocking. No different than showing him porn, in depth drug use, or other graphic images. And on top of that they did so to tell him that his lifestyle and that of his parent and family is wrong. I found out more today which I will share in another post.

Hunter is my 3rd and last child. There are 13 years between him and my middle kid. I was married at 18 and had my first child at 20, 2nd child at 22. I've raised and survived 2 teens so far and am on the brink of one more. I've never EVER dealt with anything like this before.


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## AZSongBird1973 (Jun 10, 2018)

GTX63 said:


> ...or did you mean post bail?


Almost..


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## barnbilder (Jul 1, 2005)

Dutchie said:


> Yes, there is a big difference.
> 
> Animal raised in a factory farming environment are less healthy, more stressed and are loaded with anti-biotics etc.


I was under the impression that the vets on staff at most factory farms made sure that proper slaughter withdrawal protocols were followed, especially since consumer outrage over a mythical problem caused the federal regulatory agencies to make kneejerk reactions that made it hard for non-factory farmers to obtain anti-biotics without a vet? And the whole random USDA antibiotic residue testing for meat, was it all a lie? I have a friend that is a vet, a factory farm paid for her to go to vet school in exchange for working at the factory farm for a few years, maybe I will ask her.

From what I have seen personally, chickens on a chicken "factory farm" are treated more humanely than the majority of backyard breeders chickens. If you stick around this forum a while, you will see people with chicks dying of coccidia, bloody stools and all, and they have no earthly idea what is wrong with the birds or what to do about it. Then somebody else will have six roosters and four hens and trying to figure out why the hens look rough. Then somebody will house chickens in structures no more secure than a cardboard box and post pictures of headless bodies asking what the culprit was. (You, the culprit is you!)More humane my hiney, at least if a couple hundred chicks get backed over by a forklift it is a lot quicker than "Ms. Cluckers got her eyeball ripped out by a raccoon and now there are fly maggots on it, what should I do?" (Ms. Cluckers says, for the love of god, kill me). The worst are the folks that are so opposed to using chemicals, that they let their animals suffer maladies that could easily be rectified with very benign chemicals. From where I set, a lot of home grown meat operations would have a long way to go to raise meat as humanely as some factory farms.


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## AZSongBird1973 (Jun 10, 2018)

I will try to make this the condensws version...but you jnow how that goes.

So I called them this morning and invited them to my house for lunch. Went to the store and bought meat...lots of meat. Cooked up a bunch of it. Moved my kitchen table into the living room where the big screen is and put in a good archery hunting dvd and cued it up to one of the better scenes. Mind you I have horns and mounts and photos and momentos of hunting activities of all types all over my house. Our bows hang from the wall, I have a rifle leaned up in the corner by the back door..etc. No question about how I live my life. 
So they get here and I welcome them in. It takes them a few minutes to start looking around and you can just see the akwardness and discomfort settling in. I just kept on like nothing was up. They actually sat down at the table which I didn't ever think it would get that far lol. I pulled the tin foil off the arrangement of sin I had grilled and I thought she was going to faint!! She started gagging and got all dramatic. I had to try not to laugh actually...it was soap opera worthy. She jumped up and was wanting to leave and I was like no..wait, we have a video to watch. You had my son watch one at your house so I figured I should return the favor. That's when he got mad and started calling me AND MY SON names and threatening me and that's when I lost my cool. I'm a pretty even keeled person and I don't get really mad often but when I do, you better hang on. And nothing gets me fired up more than someone screwing with my kids...or any kids for that matter. I handed her my phone and told her to call the sheriff cuz someone's going to the hospital and someones going to jail and I don't like hospitals. So she did. By the time they got to my house the two of them were outside screaming at me from inside their car with the windows down. The sheriff traspassed them from my house. Luckily the boys were at the library for a weekly summer activity thing a bunch of kids do. When I went to pick him up they were picking their son up and I just smiled as big as I could and waved. When we got home I sat Hunter sown and had a long talk with him about the whole situation. He has so far eaten his pork chop and about a half a bag of jerky lol!


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## Oregon1986 (Apr 25, 2017)

AZSongBird1973 said:


> I will try to make this the condensws version...but you jnow how that goes.
> 
> So I called them this morning and invited them to my house for lunch. Went to the store and bought meat...lots of meat. Cooked up a bunch of it. Moved my kitchen table into the living room where the big screen is and put in a good archery hunting dvd and cued it up to one of the better scenes. Mind you I have horns and mounts and photos and momentos of hunting activities of all types all over my house. Our bows hang from the wall, I have a rifle leaned up in the corner by the back door..etc. No question about how I live my life.
> So they get here and I welcome them in. It takes them a few minutes to start looking around and you can just see the akwardness and discomfort settling in. I just kept on like nothing was up. They actually sat down at the table which I didn't ever think it would get that far lol. I pulled the tin foil off the arrangement of sin I had grilled and I thought she was going to faint!! She started gagging and got all dramatic. I had to try not to laugh actually...it was soap opera worthy. She jumped up and was wanting to leave and I was like no..wait, we have a video to watch. You had my son watch one at your house so I figured I should return the favor. That's when he got mad and started calling me AND MY SON names and threatening me and that's when I lost my cool. I'm a pretty even keeled person and I don't get really mad often but when I do, you better hang on. And nothing gets me fired up more than someone screwing with my kids...or any kids for that matter. I handed her my phone and told her to call the sheriff cuz someone's going to the hospital and someones going to jail and I don't like hospitals. So she did. By the time they got to my house the two of them were outside screaming at me from inside their car with the windows down. The sheriff traspassed them from my house. Luckily the boys were at the library for a weekly summer activity thing a bunch of kids do. When I went to pick him up they were picking their son up and I just smiled as big as I could and waved. When we got home I sat Hunter sown and had a long talk with him about the whole situation. He has so far eaten his pork chop and about a half a bag of jerky lol!


Have I ever told you how much I love you?lol. I wish I could of been there to see her reaction when you revealed the meat


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## FreeRange (Oct 9, 2005)

What did the sheriff have to say?


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## CajunSunshine (Apr 24, 2007)

I'm glad that story had a good ending!

My favorite part was where you served up the platter of justice, followed by an offer of dessert (video).



AZSongBird1973 said:


> .... I pulled the tin foil off the arrangement of sin I had grilled and I thought she was going to faint!! She started gagging and got all dramatic. I had to try not to laugh actually...it was soap opera worthy. She jumped up and was wanting to leave and *I was like no..wait, we have a video to watch. You had my son watch one at your house so I figured I should return the favor. *




.


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## Vjklander (Apr 24, 2018)

I guess Hunter can have his Jello now too.


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## 4tu (Jul 24, 2018)

It's a cruel world and that's a fact, animals die and all that protein goes to waste of not used by nature or man.

If a moment allows, let him know that America has larger more robust people because we have meat and fish there are countries where the population is frail and too thin because there is no easy access to meat and a limited amount of food from a lack of money. or like my father did slap you upside the head and tell you, "children are starving in China" your mother worked hard to make that, (and she was a great cook).

By the time I was -- well as far as I can remember my father hunted and fished I gutted fish and helped field dress and skin rabbits **** deer bear squirrels rattle snake dove and quail.

Time will work it out just do not give in to making him a separate meal he eats or not believe me he won't starve just allow him to ease back in to your routine. Sensitive is a necessary emotion I can kill but I do not like it in respect I do not waste it or take it lightly I hate hunting shows where they are high fiveing and laughing like hyenas, a bit of elation because of a successful hunt but some decorum I think is needed. I love critters and enjoy them but I do hunt and fish as well as raise animals for meat I care for them and am responsible for their health and welfare, and when I cull them it is quick as possible.

Also let him know if he dies in a room with a pet that pet will feed off his carcass in time tell him as well that there are microbes nematodes and bacteria that are on all vegetables and they can kill better than slightly spoiled meat and you have no idea they are there, look at all the spinach and leafy greens that have been killing people. Dying of gut pains that make you wretch until you pass out or die is just another way of stabilizing the population and that needs to happen on all levels, animals insects man and vegetation if not all hell breaks loose.


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## AZSongBird1973 (Jun 10, 2018)

Oregon1986 said:


> Have I ever told you how much I love you?lol. I wish I could of been there to see her reaction when you revealed the meat


Lol! Luv you too, Boo! I should have recorded it...memes for days!


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## AZSongBird1973 (Jun 10, 2018)

FreeRange said:


> What did the sheriff have to say?


There were ultimately 2 officers that showed up. The first one was being very official when he arrived. I was standing on my front porch when he got there...they were still in or around their car. She was carrying on as if she'd lost a family member..wailing and crying..even more so now that the cop showed up. After he figured out what was going on he was shaking his head and telling them to leave...which they wouldn't do. Then the other sheriff showed up and he told them to leave so they pulled their car out of my front drive way and parked in the cul de sac and got back out of their car and continued their ranting. Saying they had a right to publicly protest etc. It was ridiculous! At the end of the whole thing they finally left after almost going to jail, trespassed, and both officers were in my kitchen eating some of this awesome smoked bison sausage i got and swapping hunting stories.


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## AZSongBird1973 (Jun 10, 2018)

4tu said:


> It's a cruel world and that's a fact, animals die and all that protein goes to waste of not used by nature or man.
> 
> If a moment allows, let him know that America has larger more robust people because we have meat and fish there are countries where the population is frail and too thin because there is no easy access to meat and a limited amount of food from a lack of money. or like my father did slap you upside the head and tell you, "children are starving in China" your mother worked hard to make that, (and she was a great cook).
> 
> ...


When I went to the meat market the guy that owns the place is always the one who is at the counter and he was asking if I was having a BBQ because if all the stuff I was buying. I explained the situation and he invited Hunter and I down to the meat shop this Saturday for a tour. I'm pretty excited for that, Hunter is too actually. He's a very reasonable kid, he was just shell shocked by what he saw. I've since looked at a couple of Peta videos an do can understand why...they're awful!!


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## 4tu (Jul 24, 2018)

So all is right with the world and one more snowflake drifted into the bug zapper called real life and went "pift" to a cloud of fart gas.


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## AZSongBird1973 (Jun 10, 2018)

4tu said:


> So all is right with the world and one more snowflake drifted into the bug zapper called real life and went "pift" to a cloud of fart gas.


So far, so good! AND I have a pile of precooked yummy food to choose from!!


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## 4tu (Jul 24, 2018)

AZSongBird1973 said:


> When I went to the meat market the guy that owns the place is always the one who is at the counter and he was asking if I was having a BBQ because if all the stuff I was buying. I explained the situation and he invited Hunter and I down to the meat shop this Saturday for a tour. I'm pretty excited for that, Hunter is too actually. He's a very reasonable kid, he was just shell shocked by what he saw. I've since looked at a couple of Peta videos an do can understand why...they're awful!!


i can imagine i have seen some and the editors use the most vile and disgusting corporate assembly line slaughter house images to incense young minds.


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## emdeengee (Apr 20, 2010)

If this is a true version of events it was not a very mature way to handle the situation no matter how angry you are.


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## Echoesechos (Jan 22, 2010)

You handled how you seen fit. Proud of you. Sometimes shock value is the only way you can handle things. Maybe they will think twice next before they circumvent someone’s parental controls. You got your point across very well. Don’t buy the you were in excess comments, you rock. Kids need to know their parents are in their corner. I live when mommas show their teeth and claws. I too am a single mom, my son was always proud when I went toe to toe with someone. Not sure when that started to go out of style and rolling over and letting others dictate our lives is ok. 

High five sister


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## shawnlee (Apr 13, 2010)

Sounds mature and measured response to me...….I would have been bleeding out a live sheep on the table.

I don't treat brain washing/propaganda or mind control of children lightly...… 

The shame was not filming it with your phone once they entered the public street and posting it on youtube to expose them to all the other parents who might not be aware of it and possibly prevent another incident.


I highly approve of what you did and I am super glad it did not include exposing their kid to anything as they have the same rights as everyone else and if they choose to raise their kid meat free, that's for them to decide.


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## CajunSunshine (Apr 24, 2007)

shawnlee said:


> *I don't treat brain washing/propaganda or mind control of children lightly...…*
> 
> ....I am super glad it did not include exposing their kid to anything as they have the same rights as everyone else and if they choose to raise their kid meat free, that's for them to decide.


+100% to this ^^^


The one person who I feel sorry for is the young child of the nutty parents. Imagine the cruel brainwashing he has seen... probably a good bit of it, considering how "dedicated" his parents are. A young child cannot unsee that kind of staged PETA shock propaganda. Poor kid.


.


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## AZSongBird1973 (Jun 10, 2018)

emdeengee said:


> If this is a true version of events it was not a very mature way to handle the situation no matter how angry you are.


You do you and I will do me. I had far worse..or more immatue..I should say, ideas that I would have found more personally satisfying.


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## flewism (Apr 2, 2007)

We had a daughter that went through a phase of refusing to eat meat, eggs, anything dairy she was 14 thru 15 when this happened. She was very active in sports just starting high school, made herself sick, protein deficiency, so daily protein shakes, beans and finally boneless, skinless chicken breast with tomato sauce with melted cheese was the cure.


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## SLADE (Feb 20, 2004)

flewism said:


> We had a daughter that went through a phase of refusing to eat meat, eggs, anything dairy she was 14 thru 15 when this happened. She was very active in sports just starting high school, made herself sick, protein deficiency, so daily protein shakes, beans and finally boneless, skinless chicken breast with tomato sauce with melted cheese was the cure.


Almost word for word, what I went through with my daughter.


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## emdeengee (Apr 20, 2010)

AZSongBird1973 said:


> You do you and I will do me. I had far worse..or more immatue..I should say, ideas that I would have found more personally satisfying.


Of course you do what you do and I have my opinion. The story is about the lack of respect for an alternate lifestyle/opinion and complete disregard for boundaries that the PETA parents had which upset a child so a response was necessary. No excuse for them. But it also sounds like you did not know them or their positions, opinions, lifestyle or characters - best to know the parents of the friend before allowing your children exposure to new adults and their opinions and lifestyle. The story of your response was not a mature or measured response as you did basically the same in reverse. 

I find that this is more a wishful thinking story of how you would have liked your response to have gone.


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## IndyDave (Jul 17, 2017)




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## IndyDave (Jul 17, 2017)

emdeengee said:


> If this is a true version of events it was not a very mature way to handle the situation no matter how angry you are.





emdeengee said:


> Of course you do what you do and I have my opinion. The story is about the lack of respect for an alternate lifestyle/opinion and complete disregard for boundaries that the PETA parents had which upset a child so a response was necessary. No excuse for them. But it also sounds like you did not know them or their positions, opinions, lifestyle or characters - best to know the parents of the friend before allowing your children exposure to new adults and their opinions and lifestyle. The story of your response was not a mature or measured response as you did basically the same in reverse.
> 
> I find that this is more a wishful thinking story of how you would have liked your response to have gone.


Let's see...

You have declared AZ to be immature and a. liar, and by extension have indicated that you are the arbiter of right and proper. So then, please tell us all about your perfect way of dealing with such a situation.


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## Hiro (Feb 14, 2016)

Kudos to you AZ. If you had involved their child, you would have sunk to their level and I am happy to hear you went to the source of the problem.....and had a good time doing it. I imagine the deputies will tell this tale for some time to come.


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## emdeengee (Apr 20, 2010)

IndyDave said:


> Let's see...
> 
> You have declared AZ to be immature and a. liar, and by extension have indicated that you are the arbiter of right and proper. So then, please tell us all about your perfect way of dealing with such a situation.





IndyDave said:


> Let's see...
> 
> Nonsense, never said I was the arbiter. Immature behaviour, yes. Liar no. Artistic license definitely. Just my opinion.


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## Dutchie (Mar 14, 2003)

Oxankle said:


> After I retired I raised cattle for about 20 years. I met, knew, grew up around cattlemen. Not one of them will tell you that it is more profitable to be cruel to your animals than it is to be kind and gentle. Some of these fellows had hundreds of animals, some less than a dozen, but not one of them mistreated an animal or handled it more roughly than was needed for its own welfare.
> 
> I have known men who kept old cows and old bulls on grass pension long after their productive years were gone---One fellow put it this way; "She's brought me 23 calves; she can stay as long as she wants."
> 
> It is simple foolishness to think that the men who own the so-called factory farms do not know this. They are business men and will not put an animal out on pension, but they darn sure know that cruelty is not profitable. The people who complain about caged laying hens, pig farms and calves fed out for veal are attributing human qualities and rights to animals. Dogs and cats already have human rights--when pigs get up there with dogs I am going to eat pork anyway.


So what you are saying is that animals are not sentient beings?


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## IndyDave (Jul 17, 2017)

Ok, so are you going to explain your superior solution?


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## AZSongBird1973 (Jun 10, 2018)

emdeengee said:


> Of course you do what you do and I have my opinion. The story is about the lack of respect for an alternate lifestyle/opinion and complete disregard for boundaries that the PETA parents had which upset a child so a response was necessary. No excuse for them. But it also sounds like you did not know them or their positions, opinions, lifestyle or characters - best to know the parents of the friend before allowing your children exposure to new adults and their opinions and lifestyle. The story of your response was not a mature or measured response as you did basically the same in reverse.
> 
> I find that this is more a wishful thinking story of how you would have liked your response to have gone.


If it would make you feel better I could probably get a copy of the police report for you. Not sure why you would feel the need to call me a liar when you don't even know me but whatever..think what you want.
I felt that I knew them well enough to feel comfortable with my son visiting their home. And they felt the same. The boys have been in the same class for 2 years and have gone to the same school for 3. We've done all the fund raisers, field trips, plays, and extensive list of other school related activities together and i had been to her home for bunko as a fill in one night so I didn't feel that an fbi finger print clearance and complete background check was needed but in hindsight maybe so! I didn't know they were vegetarian/vegan..whatever. Also didn't figure them for the fanatical type or the type that would have crossed the lines they did. I absolutely did do what they did in reverse, purposefully, and I put a lot of thought into it too. The difference is that I didn't include their child which was also purposeful.


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## Redlands Okie (Nov 28, 2017)

AZSongBird1973 said:


> The difference is that I didn't include their child which was also purposeful.


That right there makes a huge difference. 

Yay for how you handled it from this set of bleachers.


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## oneraddad (Jul 20, 2010)

We had the cops at the house one time, the kids were racing the moped against the go cart three laps around the block for the championship.


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## emdeengee (Apr 20, 2010)

AZSongBird1973 said:


> If it would make you feel better I could probably get a copy of the police report for you. Not sure why you would feel the need to call me a liar when you don't even know me but whatever..think what you want.
> I felt that I knew them well enough to feel comfortable with my son visiting their home. And they felt the same. The boys have been in the same class for 2 years and have gone to the same school for 3. We've done all the fund raisers, field trips, plays, and extensive list of other school related activities together and i had been to her home for bunko as a fill in one night so I didn't feel that an fbi finger print clearance and complete background check was needed but in hindsight maybe so! I didn't know they were vegetarian/vegan..whatever. Also didn't figure them for the fanatical type or the type that would have crossed the lines they did. I absolutely did do what they did in reverse, purposefully, and I put a lot of thought into it too. The difference is that I didn't include their child which was also purposeful.




Thanks for the offer but I feel fine. Post the police report if you want to and it will make you feel better. As the writer, you do not have to prove anything to me. As the reader I have opinions on what I read and definitely have questions and in this case, doubts. I think your response – as described – was immature and made/will make a bad situation worse.


As I stated before IMO the PETA parents overstepped all boundaries and this definitely called for a confrontation. And if it were me there would have been no doubt left in their minds as to just how wrong they had been.

However as an adult this would have been talking the matter over and not a stage production – which served no purpose other than to alienate the PETA parents and drive them away from any possibility of a sensible change or acknowledgement of their behaviour. And also to involve the police.

Having now made this a police matter and discussed this with some of the village people it is highly unlikely that the story will not spread so if your good intention was to not involve their son then it probably failed dramatically. Hopefully it will not spread to the rest of the kids in school (but doubtful) causing the two boys to become enemies and sides being taken. After all the children are not responsible for any actions their parents may have taken. Theirs or yours.

You say you were comfortable with the knowledge you had of these people that you knew for two years but were obviously not well informed. I have found that people who have radical opinions or lifestyles are never silent about this. If you missed the clues then that was a mistake on your part. And perhaps they had as little knowledge about your opinions and lifestyle as you had about theirs. Thought that you shared their views. Still a gross mistake to presume your son should see the film.

However I find it hard to believe that they ran screaming from your hunting film. Since you have watched PETA films (and there are also many, Humane Society or Agriculture Dept investigation films) you can see that a hunting film is nothing to be shocked about. But nice imagery.


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## AmericanStand (Jul 29, 2014)

Ive noticed people always take up for the tasty...er I mean cute animals.
Well plants are alive to and they die when we eat them, eating grains ,nuts and beans is the equivalent of feasting on babies.
AND worse yet there is some evidence that plants feel both fear and pain.


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## Ryan. (Aug 3, 2018)

When I was younger those PETA shock videos always worked on the young mind. I am by no means grown up I am only 19, but I understand now that there is nothing wrong with eating meats as long as the animal is given a respectful life and you butcher them in a humane manner.


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## Oregon1986 (Apr 25, 2017)

Teens and children are easily affected by what they hear and see


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## big rockpile (Feb 24, 2003)

My kids knew if I was going to kill an animal. I told them not to be playing with their food because I knew they would get attached to it.

Well my Son got attached to a Kid Goat. Come time I killed it. My Son was very upset with me and I told him that I enjoy eating meat and an animal has to die.

I had a PETA person living next Door. Every time I would leave she would turn my Dogs loose. They finally got shot and killed, she said she was so happy because they would no longer be suffering in their Pen. Use to be if she needed anything I would help her and I always showed respect for her beliefs but after that I figured she could rot in Hattie's for all I cared!!!!

big rockpile


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## AmericanStand (Jul 29, 2014)

Did you give her the choice Between suffering in her pen and being gut shot?


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## GTX63 (Dec 13, 2016)

Fill in the blank-
My son or daughter say 12ish, goes over to a friends house and mom and pops are in the living room and you can pick something,
watching a ultra violent movie full of swearing, a gay porno, ISIS recruiting video, liberal hate speech, blah blah. He only sees or hears it in passing from kitchen to bedroom and leaving. My child tells me and it means I probably don't want them over there anymore and that would be the end of it.
Mom and Pop invite my child into the living room to view, indoctrinate, or otherwise intend to indoctrinate, then the gloves come off. The OP seems smart enough to recognize when someone triangulates a point in order to either make themselves to be superior, disregarding emotions, passion and the parents own sense of judgement, and that is the core of this issue to me.
Everyone can formulate their own opinions, but the ultimate arbiter is the parent. There may be the law and their may be experts and the social norms for the moment, but a parent's actions are about like, speech and guns; they are God given.
You can doubt, correct, lecture, judge or snark away, but nothing changes the in stone fact that Mom was the final judge here and it really isn't primary that it was the right call or the wrong call-it was the parent's call.


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## AZSongBird1973 (Jun 10, 2018)

emdeengee said:


> As the reader I have opinions on what I read and definitely have questions and in this case, doubts. I think your response – as described – was immature and made/will make a bad situation worse.


You are absolutely entitled to you opinion...agree 100%.



emdeengee said:


> And if it were me there would have been no doubt left in their minds as to just how wrong they had been.


I'm very hopeful and prett confident that I have accomplished the same.



emdeengee said:


> However as an adult this would have been talking the matter over and not a stage production – which served no purpose other than to alienate the PETA parents and drive them away from any possibility of a sensible change or acknowledgement of their behaviour.


The fact that they showed my son these images tells me they are not reasonable people. I have tried to reason and be sensible with unreasonable people and it's an exercise in fruitility. I wanted them to really understand me and words weren't going to be a sufficient enough tool. Imagery is what they used so I wanted to speak their language. 



emdeengee said:


> And also to involve the police.


I wanted the police involved. CYA.



emdeengee said:


> Having now made this a police matter and discussed this with some of the village people


So calling names is mature? It's all good as long as I get to be the indian!



emdeengee said:


> it is highly unlikely that the story will not spread


Hopefully if it does it will encourage other parents to not take a limp wristed, mamby pamby approach to dealing with people who mess with their kids. I think it's high time we take the damn bull by the horns in a lot of respects but that's a whole other topic for another day.



emdeengee said:


> If you missed the clues then that was a mistake on your part.


Agree completely.



emdeengee said:


> However I find it hard to believe that they ran screaming from your hunting film.


I'm sure it was more due to the whole visual picture I painted for them not just the video. I used the video to connect to their use of a video, not because it was gruesome. She was the dramatic one, he was just pissed.


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## AZSongBird1973 (Jun 10, 2018)

Headed out to the meat shop and looking forward to the tour today. Hunter is excited and so am I. Gonna be a good day!


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## emdeengee (Apr 20, 2010)

So to summarize - we completely agree that what the PETA parents did was grossly wrong and crossed boundaries and deserved a response. We completely disagree on how it was handled. I actually do hope that your story was embellished.

↑Quotes
Having now made this a police matter and discussed this with some of the village people

So calling names is mature? It's all good as long as I get to be the indian!

When I read this it took me a few seconds to understand what you were saying. Not name calling, simply a general reference to people in your area as I do not know if you live in a city or in the country. If this had been about the disco group it would have been a proper noun, Village People.


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## Oxankle (Jun 20, 2003)

LOL, AZ; Why on earth did you not have someone over to videotape that? It would have garnered a million likes. I'd loved to have seen all that!!!! I'll bet those cops have that story all over the station.


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## Oxankle (Jun 20, 2003)

No, Dutchie; what I intended to say was that no sensible farmer or rancher will be deliberately cruel to his animals--it is against his interests to do so. 

There are exceptions of course--some men beat their wives, and such men will beat animals too. Like wives with knives, beaten animals will sometimes turn mean, so it is always more sensible and more profitable to treat wives and animals with kindness.


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## AZSongBird1973 (Jun 10, 2018)

Oxankle said:


> LOL, AZ; Why on earth did you not have someone over to videotape that? It would have garnered a million likes. I'd loved to have seen all that!!!! I'll bet those cops have that story all over the station.


I tought about getting my camera out, it records video as well, but knowing my luck I would have ended up getting sued or something. Besides, my goal was to provide as much of an uncomfortable shock as legally possible. It was pretty tho!


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## AZSongBird1973 (Jun 10, 2018)

emdeengee said:


> Not name calling, simply a general reference to people in your area as I do not know if you live in a city or in the country.


I've never heard the term associated with anything besides the band so my appologies.


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## TripleD (Feb 12, 2011)

AZSongBird1973 said:


> I tought about getting my camera out, it records video as well, but knowing my luck I would have ended up getting sued or something. Besides, my goal was to provide as much of an uncomfortable shock as legally possible. It was pretty tho!


I think you did a fine job. It was better than I would have done. They would have shown up to a 400lb hog hanging from the tractor bucket. Then me telling them dinner would be a little late until I got the tender loin out....


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## emdeengee (Apr 20, 2010)

AZSongBird1973 said:


> I've never heard the term associated with anything besides the band so my appologies.


No apology necessary. A misunderstanding. In truth I wish I had thought of it as this is funny and just the level of snark that makes me laugh when others are clever enough to use things like this. Pax.


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