# Seniors life insurance



## Shrek (May 1, 2002)

We have all seen the commercials for the "buy term life insurance for less than $10 a month premium with no physical and your premium is guaranteed not to go up. Units from $2500 to $25000 available".

That tells me for $120 a year your NoK gets $2500.

Wouldn't it make better sense if you are in your early 60s to instead put $15 or $20 a month or more if you can afford into savings and when you save enough for a minimum buy in , purchase a small mutual fund to self insure yourself if you don't already have fund investments in effect?


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## Forcast (Apr 15, 2014)

I have been looking at insurance as well, it really is not $10 a month when they send you the packet for my age 57 it was $58.00 a month and some were more, it gos up with age. from the as seen on TV ones, the real life insurance company wanted way more and they do health checks credit checks and want your medical records. I decided I could not afford insurance. I was thinking to do a pre paid funeral what ever, and I too thought about putting money a side, but I guess you could forget to do it or have to use if for other things. Or die before you had much saved up. Its gambling on how long you think you will live. You decide if you want coverage for 20 years 30 years you pay for 20 years 30 years and if you dont die you start all over again with the next age bracket and a higher amount is how it was explained to me. And they keep calling a lot to get you sold. So I am still uninsured. If someone know a better cheap way let me know too.


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## Shrek (May 1, 2002)

When I see the term "term life" I thank my father for taking out a $5000 whole life policy on me when I was under a year old in the good old days and badgering me to no exam upgrade it when I was 21 to the $25k lowest and most affordable upgrade.

As a teen I was allowed to use the cash value as short term loans to fix my pick up truck twice and in my 30s I used part of the cash value one time as seed to start my non work 401k connected investment fund.

The dividend on that policy softened the loan interest blow to me when I had an outstanding loan against it and when there is no loan , it sends me a dividend check to add to my Holiday gift savings.

Over the years I have seen some good dividends and some years some not so good, but as my daddy always said "If you leave it in the lock box and the dividend covers the premium its good and if in addition to making the premium the dividend puts a twenty dollars or even two bits in your pocket, its great."

I tell all the young parents I know to somehow budget a infant whole life burial cost/ college fund policy on their kids and make sure they upgrade it to that lowest level when their cookie monster turns 21 to ensure their kid has a little guaranteed loan to start their financial planning and also have a burial policy to cover at least a tasteful memorial and pine box interment or cremation hopefully at least "Three score and ten plus one down the road."

I I used my whole life policy initially to provide for me and my family in my two marriages to cover my burial and provide funds to replace my salary for around 5 years until they could move on leaving me in their memories.

Now that my first wife left me widowed and my second divorced me and I set my stepson with his own whole life policy and upgraded it for him with the same tutelage I was given when I gave it to him when he turned 21, I figure my family duty is done.

Now I have my whole life policy to cover my no frills end and anything left of it and my investments go to my mother and two close friends who I have entrusted with my disposal.

For those who are 30 or over with no end of life funds maybe they could try to gain that magic $2500 to $5000 these term insurance reference through downsizing from two cars to one or such and use it as seed to set up a low risk mattress stuffing type mutual with low to medium gains with history of not losing money and start dollar cost averaging it to lighten the load on their family.

Why pay an insurance company rent on a term insurance policy when if you do some planning with family you can trust to take care of your own needs?


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## TnAndy (Sep 15, 2005)

Whole life insurance is simply a huge ripoff and profit maker for insurance companies. They don't sell if for you.....they sell it for them. 

To recommend whole life on kids is a financial sin, IMHO. 

The insurance cost on kids is nearly nothing, as they almost never die (statistically). Look that the 'cash value' for the first 2-5 years....what is it ? Nothing. (It all went to commissions to get them to sell the stuff) Real savings plan, huh ?

WL is combination of decreasing term insurance, and an increasing internal account, on which very little interest is paid. As time goes on, the term side becomes less, and the internal 'savings account' becomes more....so if someone collects on the far end, the money was mostly your own.....and the beneficiary ONLY gets the face value.

You'd be far better off to simply buy level, or decreasing term, (as you age, *if you need it*...the goal ought to be you are self insured by older age) set aside the difference in a better savings vehicle. That way, should you die, your beneficiary gets BOTH....the face value of the insurance money, AND what you had in a savings account.

Plus, if you had your savings and needed it, you wouldn't have to "borrow" *your own money.*

Dividends are merely a return of excess premium. You send us too much, we send you some back. Want a bigger dividend ? Send us more, we'll fix you right up ! 

Want proof ? You never have to pay income tax on an insurance dividend, like you would on a stock or bond dividend. WHY ? It isn't income....it's your own money being returned to you after you let the insurance company use it free to make money.

The whole purpose of life insurance is NOT to be a savings vehicle....because they are all lousy ones....but to replace the earning power of a person with responsibilities....like wife/kids/mortgage/debts, that would be left to someone else to pay. The real crime of cash value life insurance is most people that REALLY need life insurance (young, married, kids type folks) buy too little insurance because they are sold overpriced cash value policies. 

For a $100/mo, a 30 year old can get, say $30-50,000 of whole life.....or $250,000 of 20 year level term. If he dies, and leaves a wife and kids and bills.....WHICH ONE OF THE TWO is she gonna be better of with ?? A couple years income, or 10 years of income ?

But the sales guy sold them the WL because he made 100% of the first year's premium ($1200) in commission, and probably a renewal of 10%/year for 5 years (another 1200)(that's WHY your 'cash value is zero for the first several years....he got it all....ahahahaaaa)

Had he sold him term, the commission would have been 15% of the first year's commission ($180) and probably no renewal.

Guess which ones they push ? The insurance companies get rich off that cheap source of funds (cash value)....so they pay the agents the best to sell the wrong stuff.


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## Shrek (May 1, 2002)

Not all accept the give/take aspects of a full life policy as an affordable way to build their credit and investment streams however many parents and grandparents still use them as affordable means. 

Of course whole life policies are sold to make money for the company and investors. That's what business is about. Anyone insured by a whole life policy is also a shareholder in the company offering the coverage with one share vote per unit of coverage. 

Although I hold stock in the company my $25k burial coverage is with , I also receive a 5 share proxy ballot reflecting my whole life policy shareholder status at the same time I receive the shareholder annual report and ballot on the rest of my investment in the company.

Whole life insurance policies are simply a low yield no thought required investment that in exchange for the low yield carry the frills of being always at least 60% in force towards burial coverage even if used as a low interest line of credit and for just a few dollars a year are an affordable means to build ones credit.

Whole life is only effective when purchased young precisely because the premiums are so low. When they reach their twenties the low premiums are small cost for them to have a credit building line of credit available to them. By the time they are in their 40s the dividend return covers the premium and returns them a bit of cash while maintaining their burial coverage and a line of low interest short term credit.

Whole life insurance purchased when the insured is young is more of an investment tool requiring little attention.

In the 50 plus years my whole life policy has been in effect , since I was 21 it has returned me a yearly dividend of $20 or so except during the years when I used it as short term credit to seed other investment streams I pursued. 

When I did borrow against it as seed for other investments I considered the $20 or so in interest plus premium I had to pay back to the company and myself as an insured shareholder a small price compared to the income of the investment I seeded from it.


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## Ramblin Wreck (Jun 10, 2005)

I was always taught to buy term after getting bids from several agencies and then invest the difference between the term rate and the whole life rate; however, that only works if you have the discipline to invest and not spend the difference. 

Currently I have a term policy that runs for about another 10 years. It's a $250K policy that costs $500 annually. Hope that no one ever gets to use it.


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## Michael W. Smith (Jun 2, 2002)

Shrek said:


> Wouldn't it make better sense if you are in your early 60s to instead put $15 or $20 a month or more if you can afford into savings and when you save enough for a minimum buy in , purchase a small mutual fund to self insure yourself if you don't already have fund investments in effect?


Yes, it would be better. But sadly, most people WON'T pay themselves "first". There will always be a bill that needs paid or a luxury they have to have and so they will "catch up" next month. But next month the same thing happens.

And even if you do have the odd person who actually does save the money - what happens when they end up in the nursing home for several years before they finally do pass away. Being in a nursing home doesn't take long to eat up what savings or nest egg you did have - and that $3000.00 mutual fund you have, you can't tell the home (or state) "But that is to bury me, I can't use that."

That is where life insurance does come in - as long as there is a beneficiary actually listed and the insurance doesn't go to the "estate". Name your spouse or sibling - whomever can be trusted - and that money will go directly to them upon your death. They can then pay your funeral expenses or other expenses without the state demanding they get their money for keeping you in the home.

If you don't end up in the home, great. But chances are you MAY end up there.

To cover burial expenses, you could always Prepay for your funeral / cremation with an irrevocable payment. It's a lot safer than it used to be - giving money to the funeral director and HOPING he invested it in a fund for you - not him! Nowadays, I think the funeral director is totally out of the loop in setting it up - you write a check to the company in charge of the funds - NOT the funeral director, and the money only comes out to the funeral director once you die. And it's not even funeral home specific - you may want "A Cheap Funeral Home" to embalm / cremate you, but if they go out of business or have a fire a week before you die - your family members can choose which funeral home gets the job. The only problem is "A Cheap Funeral Home" might have done cremations for $1800.00, and "Final Rest Funeral Home" charges $2500.00. If your burial fund doesn't have $2500.00 in it - some of your family may have to chip in.

The thing is, there is a 100% guarantee you ARE going to die. Unless you have plans in place to donate your body to "I Want To Be a Doctor Medical School" or donate your body to "The FBI Body Field" - where your body is left out in the field / woods - SOMETHING has to be done with your body.

How expensive you want to go is up to you (or your family) but if you don't have the funds at the time of your death, then your family will be making monthly payments to the funeral home for a while.


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## Forcast (Apr 15, 2014)

(How expensive you want to go is up to you (or your family) but if you don't have the funds at the time of your death, then your family will be making monthly payments to the funeral home for a while.)
********
No monthy payments in Maryland you pay up front or dear old mom goes in the frig till you come up with the money. 10 years ago you told the director the name of the insurance company he would call to check how much money and he would wait for the check. My brother and I had a heck of a time finding money to cover the costs. and she had some insurance not enough but some. It took a month to get the check. 

I would just like to have it paid for up front and leave the kids with some cash to deal with what ever mess I leave. That was another problem we had with Mom the cost of dealing with the home, selling, fixing, keeping, property taxes, electric bills so on and so on, it adds up fast and if you are not in a good financial place it makes things a lot worse.


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## Micheal (Jan 28, 2009)

Something to consider most term life policies come with an age limit; dependent on state rules. Here in NY I've had a policy (covering a bank loan) cancelled when I turned 70. Another instance was that they would only write a policy to cover me till age 75 even though I was interested in a 10 year plan........

The whole life policy I got back when I was 18 and converted to a paid up life when I turned 35 or so still takes any and all dividends earned and adds them to the amount payable upon death and that also increases the cash value (yearly).....


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## arabian knight (Dec 19, 2005)

I am lucky as when I was working I picked up a add-on policy to the one we already had.
Now I had to leave work for medical reasons and the life insurance company because I am disabled is paying the monthly premium.
One policy will stop when I am 65 as they will no longer PAY the premiums, Now the other one will continue till I am 70 when the company will stop paying because of my disability, But I can Pick the insurance by just picking up the monthly premium which I intends to do, as I only need one of those two term life policies.


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## Michael W. Smith (Jun 2, 2002)

No monthy payments in Maryland you pay up front or dear old mom goes in the frig till you come up with the money. [/QUOTE]

Can you blame the funeral director for wanting the money up front? Once dear old Mom is buried - what is to keep the family from "forgetting" to pay the monthly bill - or just saying "I'm not payin it. Mom is buried - what is the funeral director going to do - dig her back up?"

Death isn't a surprise to anyone - we are all going to die - not IF . . . . but WHEN. 

People spend weeks researching and planning a vacation. People spend months and years planning and saving up for retirement. But when it comes to death . . . . people will procrastinate because they don't want to deal with their own mortality.


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## Kevingr (Mar 10, 2006)

I do this, www.bankonyourself.com best thing I've ever done and the most consistent ROI that I have.

Following this method you come out ahead by borrowing against your policy and yet earn interest on the entire balance. For instance, lets say I have $100,000 in my policy and I want to buy a new $50,000 truck. I can go take out the $50,000 from my bank account and the truck is paid for, but I loose the interest I would have earned on the $50,000. If I take the $50,000 out of my policy I need to pay it back, but I continue to earn interest on the $100,000 that's in the policy.

Following this method I owe no money to anyone but myself except for my mortgage and I never lost a dime during the downturn of 2008. I made money.

For those that follow the buy term and invest the rest good luck with that philosophy. I know many who have and as they reach retirement they find that they have nothing, some are ok, but most are not. Dave Ramsey and Suse Orman both tell you to buy term and invest the rest, but they also both told you to take out the equity in your home and invest it during the Realestate boom.

I've had my policy for over a decade and it's now self funded and I use it to buy anything and everything and I just keep earning interest. Life is good.


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## mnn2501 (Apr 2, 2008)

By the time you reach retirement age, you should not need insurance. You should have been saving money throughout your working career: no house payments, no kids in college, cars paid for and money in savings (ants).
Of course I know too many people who believe in eat, drink and be merry and don't worry about tomorrow(grasshoppers), never save or plan for retirement.


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## acabin42 (May 11, 2002)

Let me ask a question ..... I am in my 60's on disability and bought whole life ins.... Small amount for burial..... Is whole life the wrong thing to get? We have no mortgage or car payments or credit cards..... Just want the kids be able to bury us.


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## Danaus29 (Sep 12, 2005)

My mother in law bought whole life ins for both my kids when they were small. Take the face amount and divide by the premium amount and it would take 125 years of premium payments to equal the face value of the policy. These were supposed to be paid up policies by the age of 20 or so. No, the policies don't earn enough in dividends to pay for themselves yet. It comes pretty close though. We used the dividends to buy more paid up insurance so the policies are worth way more than the original face value. While we hope that we may never collect on the policies it's comforting to know the policies are there. 

Dh checked on term life ins for himself. Yep, they wanted medical records, financial records, and employment records. The policy would never be paid off and in 10 years we would be paying more in premiums than the insurance would pay out. 

So, is life insurance worth it? That is something each person needs to decide for themselves. They also need to check the fine print on several different types of policies and check with several different companies. For some people burying jars of quarters in the back yard is the best way to go. For some people an insurance policy of some type is better.

I will say this, when my grandma passed the funeral home demanded payment up front. They would not wait until the policy paid out, they would not take the bonds or cash from the estate. Cash up front, before any planning would be done.

We had to bury a dear friend a few years back. That funeral home waited for payment until the estate was settled. Since the friend did not leave a valid will (never make a church your beneficiary) it took over a year to get it all settled. The attorney that handled it made quite a bit of money. And the friend would not have been buried if there was no plot already reserved in their name.


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## Wolf mom (Mar 8, 2005)

Willed my body to science. They'll use what they need, cremate me & send the ashes to my kids. No charge! Kids were asked to mingle my ashes with forget-me-nots seeds and spread it near a stream. 

Dust to Dust - what remains is in their memories and stories passed down. Up to me while I'm alive to make those memories memorable. 

Death insurance - not for me.


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## Danaus29 (Sep 12, 2005)

Cremation costs $2000 right now. Told the kids to sell some of my stuff and send my ashes off in a boat, viking style. Or sneak onto the property where I grew up and bury my ashes with my ancestors there.


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## Michael W. Smith (Jun 2, 2002)

mnn2501 said:


> By the time you reach retirement age, you should not need insurance. You should have been saving money throughout your working career: no house payments, no kids in college, cars paid for and money in savings


That is all well and good, but what happens if you end up in a nursing home before you die? (Many people do, and spend YEARS there.)

With a yearly bill of $50,000.00 - $100,000.00 to stay in a nursing home - how long will your investments last? 

And for those saying "Well fine, the nursing home can get what I have and the State can cover the rest of my stay." Well, that's all fine and good until you die. The nursing home isn't going to bury you and neither is the State.

So you have 3 options - donate your body, life insurance, or a pre planned/ pre payed funeral. 

The majority of people don't even want to think about their death, let alone plan for it - many people DON'T even have a will - let alone life insurance.


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## MoonRiver (Sep 2, 2007)

acabin42 said:


> Let me ask a question ..... I am in my 60's on disability and bought whole life ins.... Small amount for burial..... Is whole life the wrong thing to get? We have no mortgage or car payments or credit cards..... Just want the kids be able to bury us.


What about a prepaid burial?


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## MoonRiver (Sep 2, 2007)

Michael W. Smith said:


> So you have 3 options - donate your body, life insurance, or a pre planned/ pre payed funeral.


I told my sister that I just wanted to be cremated and ashes spread around the grape vines. Whoever buys the property doesn't need to know!


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## sss3 (Jul 15, 2007)

This happened in Detroit. At least two, Funeral Homes, took several hundred thousand dollars from people for prepaid funerals. Then went out of business. As far as I know, they were never found. You don't want to hear what the Police found when they went there to investigate. OTH the place I want my funeral and burial, is in a very small town. They've been in business a very long time. Several of my family members have used their services. Mom prepaid her funeral about a year before she passed. I might prepay them, if I thought my time was near.


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