# Building a home



## joejeep92 (Oct 11, 2010)

So my fiance and I are ready to build our first home. We are considering both underground as well as log homes. We are on a limited budget (under 40k cost). Does anyone have any suggestions as far as plans for a reasonably priced, simple, efficient home? Ideally 3 bedroom for future family growth plans.


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## MushCreek (Jan 7, 2008)

The forum at countryplans.com is a great site of like-minded folks. Do a lot of research on log and underground homes before you build- they're not for everybody.


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## ErinP (Aug 23, 2007)

If you like the log idea, I would suggest investigating FirstDay Cottage. (I should get a cut for as often as I mention their name! lol)

It's a modified timber-frame house built with standard, dimensional lumber so it can be done by a couple. In fact, that's how most of them are built. 
If you do a Google, you'll find a whole pile of blogs and a couple of mailing lists, where people talk about the building of their own... (There are also a couple of people at CountryPlans.com who built First Days. Daddymem is a member that comes to mind first)


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## kvr28 (Feb 15, 2009)




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## dirtman (Sep 15, 2011)

joejeep92 said:


> So my fiance and I are ready to build our first home. We are considering both underground as well as log homes. We are on a limited budget (under 40k cost). Does anyone have any suggestions as far as plans for a reasonably priced, simple, efficient home? Ideally 3 bedroom for future family growth plans.


What is your level of building experience. Unless it is high, both log and timber frame will be beyond the capabilities of the average person. What is your site like? Level, hilly, soil type sand or clay or rocky. I have 46 years in the building trades and would be glad to shoot you what I think is the most economical way to build. Just need the basic information. Also what the zoning is in your area, how hard core are the inspectors, ect.


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## wharton (Oct 9, 2011)

dirtman said:


> What is your level of building experience. Unless it is high, both log and timber frame will be beyond the capabilities of the average person. What is your site like? Level, hilly, soil type sand or clay or rocky. I have 46 years in the building trades and would be glad to shoot you what I think is the most economical way to build. Just need the basic information. Also what the zoning is in your area, how hard core are the inspectors, ect.


 Excellent advice. All the dreaming in the world isn't going to go far if you have an inspection agency that says, " find it in the current code book, or get a full set of engineered and stamped plans, then we will let you know IF it's something we might allow." Generally, log home, (or underground home) $40K max. budget, and sucessful completion, are not concepts that go the distance together. Not impossible, but unless you are tough as nails, ambitious and driven, it probably isn't going to happen.


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## joejeep92 (Oct 11, 2010)

The building site is on the side of a hill. Soil is silty loam. Inspection wise though it is in a local where I really don't have a whole lot to worry about.


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## ErinP (Aug 23, 2007)

In that case, the sky (and your budget!) is the limit. But, if you've investigated any of the links you've been given, you'll find $40K is a perfectly workable budget for a self-built home.  Though if you want to build log, you'll probably have to source, and cut, your own timber in order to keep it under that budget.


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## coalroadcabin (Jun 16, 2004)

Does the 40K include hooking up electricity, digging a well and installing septic (or hooking up to public water and sewer)? Do you have the machinery and know-how to clear the lot and dig the foundation? 

Just from what I've experienced - building just the home for $40K is doable as long as you can do all of the work yourself and do not mind hunting for used or discounted materials. Getting the land ready to build, installing utilities and completing the foundation can end up costing more than you think. Our well ended up being 750' deep, cased all the way down and cost over 30K - it was an unexpected expense and took a big chunk of our budget. You probably won't have anything that expensive to deal with but I would put some money back just in case you come up with a 'gotcha'

YMMV


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## Capt Quirk (Sep 24, 2011)

dirtman said:


> What is your level of building experience. Unless it is high, both log and timber frame will be beyond the capabilities of the average person.


Not necessarily true. We built a small test cabin with logs, with maybe moderate construction skills. Sure, we made a lot of mistakes, but that is why we did it as a test, to see what would work best. We made saddle notches starting first with an axe, they came out rough. Same with a chainsaw, the gaps were ugly. Hammer and chisel made nice rounded notches, but took a whole lot of time and work... not to mention the beating my hands took. Learned a lot with that 10x10 cabin.

With $40k to work with, for structure alone, you might look into cargo containers.


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## dirtman (Sep 15, 2011)

joejeep92 said:


> So my fiance and I are ready to build our first home. We are considering both underground as well as log homes. We are on a limited budget (under 40k cost). Does anyone have any suggestions as far as plans for a reasonably priced, simple, efficient home? Ideally 3 bedroom for future family growth plans.


I believe the best and most economical way to build is with Concrete and concrete block. You will never get a hassle from the authorities because they understand the materials. Basically the system is on a two foot wide footing. You build a conventional block wall followed by 4 inches of styrofoam and then a outer shell of a system invented by Frank LLoyd Wright called the usonian automatic. If you can build with Legos you can build a house like this. You just have to understand the cardinal rules of building. ABSOLUTELY LEVEL, ABSOLUTELY PLUMB AND ABSOLUTELY SQUARE. Carefully budget. Build only as much as you can afford to finish. Unless you have a credit score of about 850 you won't get a loan to complete it. Google usonian automatic and La Miniatura as examples of this type of construction. If you are interested I will give you more details on how you can do this.


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## Capt Quirk (Sep 24, 2011)

dirtman said:


> You just have to understand the cardinal rules of building. ABSOLUTELY LEVEL, ABSOLUTELY PLUMB AND ABSOLUTELY SQUARE.


Looking at newer buildings, I think that went out with Bow ties...


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## Sparticle (Nov 1, 2004)

We just finished an earth bermed house built with concrete blocks. It was well within our budget. We laid half the blocks ourselves and then hired a pro to finish the walls. We made it about halfway up before our arms gave out. The wife put on all the surface bonding cement. We're gonna build another one the same way soon.


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## Micheal (Jan 28, 2009)

Just to toss out a price - BIL just priced a 3 BR, 2B, log home cost - $95K delivered to his site. This does NOT include anything other than the logs and material (nails, etc) delivered! For them to put it together add another $30K. A mason's est for a celler was $35K. Well digger's est for a well, pump, etc $15K. Sepic system (raised bed) another $20K. 

Almost want to think about living in a cardboard box........... but that may not fit in with local code(s)....


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## ErinP (Aug 23, 2007)

To be sure, if you're going to hire the labor, there is _no way_ you'll ever stay under $40K...


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## wharton (Oct 9, 2011)

Micheal said:


> Just to toss out a price - BIL just priced a 3 BR, 2B, log home cost - $95K delivered to his site. This does NOT include anything other than the logs and material (nails, etc) delivered! For them to put it together add another $30K. A mason's est for a celler was $35K. Well digger's est for a well, pump, etc $15K. Sepic system (raised bed) another $20K.
> 
> Almost want to think about living in a cardboard box........... but that may not fit in with local code(s)....


I think you will find that there are a lot of more rational options available to your BIL. First, it's really hard to waste more money that buying a log kit from a lot of the suppliers. There are several mills that quote prices on machined logs. take this info and combine it with a local lumber yard's quote for all the other products included in the kit. It isn't unusual to find that the kit is marked up by a few hundred percent. Somebody has to pay the sales lizards to lurk at the home shows and the five and six figure ad costs in the magazines. I know of several local log homes that were built for a tiny fraction of the kit manufacture's quoted prices. Second, a modest crawl space foundation costs me $6-7K complete, add $10K for as full poured concrete basement, including a Bilco door entrance and a few windows. If he is building a mansion, $35K might be reasonable? Around here a typical well runs $3500-4500. I never heard of spending $15K. Sand mound systems are $13/ sq. ft or more depending on the design, so the smaller ones are just under $8K. Everybody is starving for work in the industry, prices are as low as they have been in 20 years for a lot of subcontractors. Either this guy is building a real extreme home, or he is getting some wild prices for some reason.


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## Micheal (Jan 28, 2009)

Wharton: I only posted the price(s) BIL got after many months on his part of talking to area contractors ,etc. Trust me knowing the area of where he wants to build the only price that really seems out of line is the cost of the log-house itself, plus these are only estimates taking in light of "codes" etc that need to be followed.


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## ErinP (Aug 23, 2007)

More importantly is the fact that he's _hiring_ everything done.


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## KMA1 (Dec 9, 2006)

I have to agree with Wharton, Michael your BIL's estimates seem high, but you are talking about a turnkey I am assuming. 

I just priced the 6"x 12" oak logs for small Appalachian style 1.5 story cabin, 20'x24', from a bandsaw miller advertising in the Farmers Bulletin and came out with a price of less than $6,000 for my Daughter. That is with full length logs 20 and 24 feet long except for those broke with doors and windows and fireplace, second floor joists, rafters and collar beams. An extra $2,500 for permachink, which is expensive but beats cement morter by miles. Regular lumber for ist floor framing, 3/4 plywood for subfloor, and 2"X6" T&G for 2nd floor and ceiling over rafters. Insulation for floor and roof, decking and roofing. Her total cost for foundation (+labor), septic, water, logs & timbers, chinking, finish interior, bath with fixtures, metal roof, and 2 full length poarchs is lest that 30,000. 

You do have to know how to notch the logs, install windows and doors, roof ect, and have the tools to do it with, unless you pay someone else to put it up. And there are some significant differences in building with logs. Now admittedly, this is small, but the beauty is that, when she has more money, we can put up a second matching structure with a space in between and connect the roof with the existing roof. That makes a dogtrot cabin. The last step is to close in the section between the two, which is not as expensive. Now you have a structure quick to put up and ge into because it is small, a place to live while saving money for the second and third parts of the house, and end up with a 20'x72' 1.5 story house over maybe 3 to 4 years, paid for out of pocket. You can save even more money by putting the cabin on concrete piers rather than a full foundation if you need to.


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## Capt Quirk (Sep 24, 2011)

KMA1 said:


> I have to agree with Wharton, Michael your BIL's estimates seem high, but you are talking about a turnkey I am assuming.
> 
> I just priced the 6"x 12" oak logs for small Appalachian style 1.5 story cabin, 20'x24', from a bandsaw miller advertising in the Farmers Bulletin and came out with a price of less than $6,000 for my Daughter.


That is pretty good, specially since he was able to do the longer logs. We have (had) one sawyer in a 100 miles. He was asking .33 a foot for a D log, setting up on our property, using our pine. The real kicker was, he could only handle up to 18'. I figured for a 2 story, roughly 25' x 40', I would need about $3k. For that kind of money, I could almost buy my own mill. It certainly wouldn't be the nice Woodmizer he had, and I would still have to do all the labor. On the other side of the coin, I'd have the mill for cutting more lumber when I needed it.


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## wharton (Oct 9, 2011)

Micheal said:


> Wharton: I only posted the price(s) BIL got after many months on his part of talking to area contractors ,etc. Trust me knowing the area of where he wants to build the only price that really seems out of line is the cost of the log-house itself, plus these are only estimates taking in light of "codes" etc that need to be followed.


 I'm a short drive south of NYS and work in a VERY strict code area. Bottom line is that at $35K for a foundation, simple and modest are not part of the plan. Nothing wrong with that, but we have folks here discussing how to spend $40K total, not how to build a mansion. Another thing to consider is if it's worth importing labor and/or contractors into a very high cost area? Don't know your specifics, but in some areas, particularly where the 1%er like to build trophy homes, the prevailing attitude of contractors is, "I charge what the market will bear, and it amazes me how much they are willing to spend". I know of guys from my area that travel to places like that in WY and Co to do high end finish work. They get $35/Hr and all expenses paid, and cost the customer a fraction of what local talent demands. If a typical well runs me 1/3rd of what you are quoting, you can bet my guy would end up doing a 500 mile round trip with a drilling rig, if I did a job in your area. This is a lot more common than you might think. I spoke to a small log home builder from the middle of nowhere in north central PA. who frequently travels 4-5 hours to a job, and ends up putting up his homes for a small fraction of what the big name builders charge. During the boom, a local concrete contractor was sending crews and equipment to the NJ and DE coast to pour trophy home foundations. He was making a killing and charging about a third less than the local contractors. Given the national economy, paying premium prices for any construction services, or material is only acceptable if you have money to burn.


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## Micheal (Jan 28, 2009)

It is a sad thing that there are those that just "KNOW" things and those of us that do not! 
I posted some of the estimates my BIL got because he to also started out the idea that with a relative small amount of money he could build a modest log home on his long searched for piece of heaven. Unfortunately due to many unforseen problems his dream suddenly became very expensive........
To explain the "guesses" from local contractors; that to some may seem high, let me explain. Given the spot that my BIL decided to build his modest log-home requires some unique methods of construction - some that does require prep work using TNT and is not within the average homebuilders forte'. Therefore..........


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## BarbadosSheep (Jun 27, 2011)

It costs a lot to build. You don't have to have prior experience, but it sure helps. When DH and I built our first house 30 years ago we learned as we went. We are in our 3rd one now. My advise to anyone who wants to build and plans on staying there for a long time is choose a plan that you can add on to later. A cape-cod style so that you can finish rooms upstairs later is good. Also a square box that will allow you to add a garage on one end and a master suite on the other end is good. That way you can at least get the center part finished while you are saving money to continue. 

If you ever plan to sell it, don't try to get around building permits and inspections. No bank will ever finance a home that skirted the code regulations. You also may find it impossible to get electrical service unless you comply with the local building inspection people.


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## chewie (Jun 9, 2008)

I really like erinP's link to those house kits. very nice. countryplans.com is another source. I like the idea of building small and without loans, adding as you can. that's one area I wish we'd done, we just got a loan and built it as we wanted it.

we built ours, used tons of used materials, secondhand kitchen cabinets, windows, discontinued things, etc. and weren't able to stay at the $40k we first thought. we only hired elec. and plumbing, to be sure there wasn't any code issues later. the rest was our family working like slaves. honestly, it sounded like a lot more fun than it really was. it was hot, sweaty, painful work. and felt like it would NEVER end. but it did, and we live in my dream house now. 

if you plan to hire it all out, its going to be really tiny at that price, i would think.


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## jwal10 (Jun 5, 2010)

I build small rental cabins, 24'x20'. 1 bedroom, bath living dining small kitchen. Front porch, rear concrete patio and a 12'x20' garage. I use all recycled lumber and cost on this last one was about $16,000. I have used different facades on the same floorplan for 35 years so I have it down pretty good. Oregon has tough inspections, not high cost. I can do everything but have a friend do the insulation, another does the sheetrock and texture. Nephew does the architectural shingles. I even had a friend put some river rock accents below the front window, each side of the garage door and around the porch posts....James


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## Capt Quirk (Sep 24, 2011)

jwal10 said:


> I build small rental cabins, 24'x20'. 1 bedroom, bath living dining small kitchen. Front porch, rear concrete patio and a 12'x20' garage. I use all recycled lumber and cost on this last one was about $16,000. I have used different facades on the same floorplan for 35 years so I have it down pretty good. Oregon has tough inspections, not high cost. I can do everything but have a friend do the insulation, another does the sheetrock and texture. Nephew does the architectural shingles. I even had a friend put some river rock accents below the front window, each side of the garage door and around the porch posts....James


Don't be such a tease, share some pics and plans?


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## Dutch 106 (Feb 12, 2008)

Hey,
take a look at surface bonding cement on cinder blocks, you just stack them then apply the cement to the outside when your done its stronger than the old fashioned laid block.
Its cheap, you can stack up the blocks yourself I was looking at building 1500 sq foot bermed to lower edge of the roof except to the south. I had planned on using a micro boiler and radiant heat laid in the floor. Along with a Russian style stove to provide day to day heat.
I had planned the south side to be a series of glass patio doors salvage from a restore.
The overall cost was right at $24,000 with a conventional roof metal roof.
Dutch


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## wharton (Oct 9, 2011)

Micheal said:


> It is a sad thing that there are those that just "KNOW" things and those of us that do not!
> I posted some of the estimates my BIL got because he to also started out the idea that with a relative small amount of money he could build a modest log home on his long searched for piece of heaven. Unfortunately due to many unforseen problems his dream suddenly became very expensive........
> To explain the "guesses" from local contractors; that to some may seem high, let me explain. Given the spot that my BIL decided to build his modest log-home requires some unique methods of construction - some that does require prep work using TNT and is not within the average homebuilders forte'. Therefore..........


 You are right, none of us ever have to hire out work to blasting contractors here in the northeast. None of us ever attempts sites that are within a fraction of a percent of being rated "unbuildable, due to excess slope" by the local authority having juristiction. That's way too tough for the hillbillies here, I guess? 
How about another approach to your contibutions here? You give us some info. to start the conversation, and explain why the figures are so extreme, then we can see if there is something to add to the mix to HELP you, or your BIL end up gaining some control over his potential project. For example i could provide a contact that could provide a large log shell, erected, for significantly less that the figures you state. 
sounds like you could of added some interesting input to the conversation, had you approached it differently. One last question, assuming you haven't taken your toys home by now. Why the extremely expensive well? Depth? Need for unusual amounts of casing due to geological problems? I had one last year that was one of the ugliest in recent memory for the driller, and it ran me a bit over 8K, it would be interesting to hear what makes an estimate for a well in this region come in at twice that?


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## wharton (Oct 9, 2011)

Dutch 106 said:


> Hey,
> take a look at surface bonding cement on cinder blocks, you just stack them then apply the cement to the outside when your done its stronger than the old fashioned laid block.
> Its cheap, you can stack up the blocks yourself I was looking at building 1500 sq foot bermed to lower edge of the roof except to the south. I had planned on using a micro boiler and radiant heat laid in the floor. Along with a Russian style stove to provide day to day heat.
> I had planned the south side to be a series of glass patio doors salvage from a restore.
> ...


 A member here did something similar with precast foundation walls and ended up with a really nice, cost effective home. There are some great pictures somewhere here? Before you decide on salvaged doors take a look at the new vinyl units from Home Depot. They are a bit over $300 for a six footer here and they are built by Anderson window's vinyl division. Tough to beat for the money?


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## dirtman (Sep 15, 2011)

Dutch 106. You are right about the strength of the surface bonding. I recommend not using a running bond when you stack the blocks. Stack them on top of each other vertically. In the space where the blocks butt up install a #3 rod and fill with concrete. Then surface bond. If you are going with a radiant floor insulate under it. I didn't because at the time I built it was thought that the earth beneath the floor would provide extra thermal mass. I have regretted it ever since.


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## ErinP (Aug 23, 2007)

> install a #3 rod and fill with concrete. Then surface bond.


I agree with this order of doing things! We did surface bonding for our basement walls. Worked great until we filled some of the cores with concrete. We ended up with several cracks in our SBC after the concrete in the cores cured. We finally figured out it was due to the slight movement of the blocks from the pouring of the cores.

To do it again, we'd stack, pour our selected cores, THEN surface bond.


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## greg273 (Aug 5, 2003)

If I had to build my house over , I think I'd build into the earth. My friend did this and his house is a great place to be in. Warm in the winter, cool in the summer, virtually tornado proof. A real solid feeling place.


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## SteveO (Apr 14, 2009)

Save more money


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## Bluegrass2001 (Jun 17, 2011)

Late to the party and we are not building with materials found around the woods (time is of the essence) but we have found unreal discounts at some building material auctions. Our current flooring is hand-scrapped (not machine scrapped) Brazilian stone angelim that would normally be about $10 sft for $1 sft. Travertine for $1.25 sft, marble for the same and unfinished red oak for .65 sft.


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## Dutch 106 (Feb 12, 2008)

Hi Guys isn't there some standard for SBC and cindr blocks to add rebar and fill the caity every 3 feet or something like that?
Yea I remember the guy he was really good at posting then seemed to disapear I hope there all right and just lost there internet for a while.
Dutch


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## AVanarts (Jan 2, 2011)

Dutch 106 said:


> Hi Guys isn't there some standard for SBC and cindr blocks to add rebar and fill the caity every 3 feet or something like that?
> Yea I remember the guy he was really good at posting then seemed to disapear I hope there all right and just lost there internet for a while.
> Dutch


Maybe this will help.

DryStacked Surface Bonded Home Construction Sequence with Dry Stacked Block Walls

This one says a minimum of every 4 feet: https://www.thenaturalhome.com/drystackblock.htm


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