# Somebody HELP ME please!!!



## MirandaT (Dec 31, 2012)

I am not a cow person. Not generally anyways. I raise Fainting Goats...And I am on a learn as you go policy. We do have one steer that we raised for beef...(soon to be slaughtered) However, other than that...idk much about cattle. My neighbor is a cattle rancher, He has a day job though also, so when one of his calves got sick a couple weeks ago, he asked us to take it in, bottle feed it, save it if at all possible. This would have been my very first "cow care encounter" if you will. After three days of crying because the cow wouldnt eat, and literally force feeding with a syringe mouthfuls of milk replacer at a time...I finally figured out that she had pneumonia. After she died!! She was starved when i got her, and very sick.
Anyways here we are now, and a week ago The neighbor asks me to again care for a cow, This time...Newborn, Hadnt had colostrum. I was able to get him to take the bottle after trying for a day. However, he then accumulated Scours. Which turned into to full blown blood. We treated with Spectoguard. It cleared up in 24 hours, scours is getting better..Were at a pudding consistancy now, almost back to normal...It was like water. He is now one week old. Yesterday he decided he didnt want to finish his breakfast. I figured that was fine, didnt push it. But then last night he didnt want to eat at all. He eats a half gallon in the morning and a half gallon in the evening. He has a runny nose. Its a white mucus, I can tell he's having trouble breathing, not major trouble...Just like when you have a cold. He is standing and walking around, Just doesnt want to eat. At all. It has now been 24 hours since he last ate. He has fresh water and hay in his stall. (Though Im positive hes not touching either one yet. Still dependant on the bottle.) Its bedded with a thick layer of straw and he has a heat lamp. I just dont know what to do. I cannot bare to lose this little guy.... I went out and got LA300 for Pneumonia. We had snow when he was born, Then it got fairly nice...40-50 degrees...Then two days ago we had an awful rain come through 5 inches...all day saturday. Cold outside now. I figured the sudden change in weather may have contributed. (He has been in a stall inside the barn the whole time, Though the barn has windows)

I gave him first dose(LA300) Sub-Q 1.5 ml. about 30 minutes ago. That is all.....


I dont know what to do or what to expect or when this will kick in....Someone please help me:shrug:

Thank you...And God bless


----------



## MirandaT (Dec 31, 2012)

PS. He is an Angus. 7-8 days old. 
Dont know temp because i dont have a thermometer. 
He is still active. 
Ears are still standing normal. 
He is sniffing the ground alot.
Last time I seen him urinate...last night.
Last bowel- an hour ago.


----------



## wvdexters (Apr 30, 2012)

So sorry. I wish I could be of more help, having very limited experience here. We've only raised one bottle baby. 

Rough breathing doesn't sound good, my guess would be pnuemonia. I'd call the vet and get advice. Quick. You need to treat it quickly before it gets worse and get him back on his bottle ASAP if he's to have any chance. You may have to tube him if he refuses to nurse. This crazy weather definitely isn't helping you out any. 

If you get him back eating you might want to try giving him smaller more frequent feedings. At least while he is so young, more like what he would naturally get from his mother. That would put less stress on his system. 

Good Luck, and hopefully someone with more exp. will jump in. It is so hard when they get sick.

You should check around and get some colostrum from a local dairy and freeze it for future use. It won't help this one, but maybe the next one he sends your way.

Again, Good Luck


----------



## myheaven (Apr 14, 2006)

If you can get nuflor from the vet you may have a better chance. A combo of penn g 12cc an la 300 10 cc will work better then nothing. Sq .It sounds as he has pneumonia. Without colostrum you have very little chance with this guy.


----------



## myheaven (Apr 14, 2006)

Bytw the la 300 and pen g are every day. Vitimin b complex 12 cc every 12 hrs will help him keep his energy up.


----------



## MO_cows (Aug 14, 2010)

Did you get some store-bought colostrum into the calf at least? If they don't get any colostrum at all the outlook isn't good. And their ability to absorb it goes down every hour, the sooner the better. 

Antibiotics and supportive care like electrolytes, probiotics, etc. is probably the best you can do. Good of you to take it on, and really hope you have a good outcome this time. There is a sticky thread at the top with a lot of good information. Good luck!


----------



## Cheribelle (Jul 23, 2007)

I don't think I've ever been able to save one and have it thrive that hadn't had colostrum. Best of luck to you.


----------



## MirandaT (Dec 31, 2012)

He had store bought colostrum for the first few days. I dont know how to tube feed. and he still isnt hundry. He will suck on my sons hands, but fights away the bottle
I have no idea what to ..... The only vet in this area wants you to bring the animal in, and he has a rep of the animal dying more often then not. Where can i get this vit b complex...Over the counter vitamins like we take???/
I apreciate all the help.


----------



## MirandaT (Dec 31, 2012)

Running to the farm store to see what I can find...


----------



## Tango (Aug 19, 2002)

Bottle calves cannot raise their body heat efficiently and when it dips below 60 - they get into trouble. I've been known to add butter to milk-based milk replacer to give them extra fat when it is cold but you need to raise the temp and keep him dry. Go easy with antibiotics and make sure you give him some probiotics afterward.

Colostrum won't help now- try to keep his milk replacer the same rather than going for anything else that might help. Best wishes.It is possible he'll pull thru and I would prob. vaccinate as soon as he is over this.


----------



## MirandaT (Dec 31, 2012)

Just went and bought electrolyte mix and b12 complex. And a tube feeder:facepalm:
The dreaded and most scariest thing I have ever done. He's not dead, so i assume I did it right. I put in into the right side of his throat and down into it....He fought me, and jerked and gagged. And after i got three pints into him...I cried:ashamed:
I was so afraid.....I will go out and offer him the bottle in a few hours. Should I do MIlk Replacer for dinner, or more electrolytes??? Plz say a prayer I did it all right. I do NOT like tube feeding.
And how often do i do the LA300??
Thank you all for your help:thumb:


----------



## MirandaT (Dec 31, 2012)

Tango said:


> Bottle calves cannot raise their body heat efficiently and when it dips below 60 - they get into trouble. I've been known to add butter to milk-based milk replacer to give them extra fat when it is cold but you need to raise the temp and keep him dry. Go easy with antibiotics and make sure you give him some probiotics afterward.
> 
> Colostrum won't help now- try to keep his milk replacer the same rather than going for anything else that might help. Best wishes.It is possible he'll pull thru and I would prob. vaccinate as soon as he is over this.




He has a heat lamp and a closed stall with lots of straw in it....I hope its enough. The barn is completely closed except for a side door that lets in the other cow and goats into another stalled area


----------



## genebo (Sep 12, 2004)

I admire your fortitude. No matter how it turns out, nobody can say you didn't give it your best shot.

I have the feeling that your cattle rancher neighbor is dumping his hopeless calves on you. There is no excuse for them not getting at least one day of Mama's colostrum before he sends them to you.

It's so vital!


----------



## wr (Aug 10, 2003)

genebo said:


> I admire your fortitude. No matter how it turns out, nobody can say you didn't give it your best shot.
> 
> I have the feeling that your cattle rancher neighbor is dumping his hopeless calves on you. There is no excuse for them not getting at least one day of Mama's colostrum before he sends them to you.
> 
> It's so vital!


Beef ranchers don't pull calves off cows for sport and I can think of more than one reason why they calf may not have had colostrum from the cow. The cow may have died or perhaps she simply had no milk but I can assure you, the profit margin in beef isn't so high that you can literally pull calves off cows and give them to the neighbor, just to watch them squirm. 


MirandaT, relax and take a breath. You're doing fine and realistically, I was raised with cattle and have raised cattle for decades and to this day, I will do everything in my power to avoid tubing a calf, so the very fact you tried is impressive. 

I find Nufor to be fantastic for pneumonia and most vets will sell it by the dose because a bottle is fairly expensive and in as many years as I've been using it, I've never lost a calf to pneumonia. You mention you have goats, do you happen to have anything milking right now? I've fed a lot of calves on goats milk and they do just fine but if you've been using milk replacer, it would be best if you switched gradually. If there is any chance at all that the calf is a preemie, it would be a very good idea to bock the door to the laundry room and keep it inside for a day or so. I find that if their body temperatures lower, I throw blankets in the dryer to heat them up, cover the calf and rub vigorously with a warm towel once in a while. 

You have very little background in this but it sounds to me like you're doing the best you can under the circumstances and if the calf doesn't make it, you can sleep well knowing you did the best you could. Make sure you don't overfeed and since you tubed already this afternoon, I'd probably wait until morning to feed again but take a minute and give the calf's skin a pull to see if it is dehydrated.


----------



## SpaceCadet12364 (Apr 27, 2003)

If you have room for it a rubbermaid 100 gal. waterer makes good temp. lodging indoors. Kept one indoors for 2 weeks in one. get a cheap thermometer and mark it animal use or rectal.(keep out of reach of children and ? people) where are you in ky.. real milk is always best goat/cow and do not use soy based replacer.


----------



## MirandaT (Dec 31, 2012)

SpaceCadet12364 said:


> If you have room for it a rubbermaid 100 gal. waterer makes good temp. lodging indoors. Kept one indoors for 2 weeks in one. get a cheap thermometer and mark it animal use or rectal.(keep out of reach of children and ? people) where are you in ky.. real milk is always best goat/cow and do not use soy based replacer.


Near Paducah.... North western Ky


----------



## copperhead46 (Jan 25, 2008)

what WR said, if you can get any real milk in him, is so much better than replacer, that stuff is so hard on a baby. Goat milk or raw cows milk, if you can. Congrats on tubing him, it's scary, but just take your time and make sure he's swallowing, so that you know it's not going into his lungs. Nuflor is a wonderful antibiotic, it will knock just about any infection out. You are really putting a lot in these calves, I hope it pays out for you, baby calves are hard to raise. Good luck and God bless.


----------



## SpaceCadet12364 (Apr 27, 2003)

MirandaT said:


> Near Paducah.... North western Ky


You are about an hour away Campbellsville. Good Luck with this calf. If you need to load the calf in the car or truck and take it to a good vet. Iwould not hesitate to bring it in the house.


----------



## BobbyB (Apr 6, 2009)

copperhead46 said:


> what WR said, if you can get any real milk in him, is so much better than replacer, that stuff is so hard on a baby. Goat milk or raw cows milk, if you can. Congrats on tubing him, it's scary, but just take your time and *make sure he's swallowing*, so that you know it's not going into his lungs. Nuflor is a wonderful antibiotic, it will knock just about any infection out. You are really putting a lot in these calves, I hope it pays out for you, baby calves are hard to raise. Good luck and God bless.


OK, I was going to stay out of this but if the calf is swallowing, the tube is not in the right place. 

I learned how to tube feed while working on a large registered Brahma ranch and Brahma calves are born looking for a reason to die, We tubed a lot of them before they start sucking momma on their own. 

You can tell if its right because the formula/colostrum/milk will flow freely , but dont stop short.


----------



## myheaven (Apr 14, 2006)

myheaven said:


> Bytw the la 300 and pen g are every day. Vitimin b complex 12 cc every 12 hrs will help him keep his energy up.


You need to combo the la 300 it's not going to do it alone. Call the vet see if they will sell you a dose or two of nufor. I have had grate luck with it. I third the goat milk for the calf. I raise all my calves on goat milk.
Keep us updated.


----------



## ufo_chris (Apr 30, 2010)

My vet taught me to make site u tube right just feel for the ball at the end of the tube on the outside of his throat going down. He said if u feel it at all its going in the right place .
I always felt for it to make sure. Good luck,hope he makes it.


----------



## MirandaT (Dec 31, 2012)

Thank you all for the help and advice. Still no change....His nose is a little more runny. Its a white snot....Im not sure what to do, but i will call the vet and try to get the nuflor.......:Bawling:


----------



## WildRoots (Nov 24, 2013)

Had a bull calf last winter get pneumonia, high fever wouldn't eat. Gave him banamine, spelling could be wrong, but he pulled through.


----------



## MirandaT (Dec 31, 2012)

UPDATE: Just gave him 2.5ml of Nuflor. Then tubed 3 pints of Electrolytes/Vitamins. He is still standing. He wont eat on his own, and he is still snotty....But Im prayerful and hopeful.

Have done LA300 2x's/ Nuflor 1x/
Tube fed electrolytes 3x's/ b12Complex 2x's
He still has his wool blanket and heat lamp, 
Im out of ideas, and if he doesnt pull through....well, I think Ive tried everything I can get my hands on. Even Home remedies.:run:


----------



## gwithrow (Feb 5, 2005)

have you tried a raw egg? in with the electrolytes?


----------



## myheaven (Apr 14, 2006)

If you have banimine or the same by a different name five him 1.5 cc per 24 hrs. Should help improve his desire to eat.


----------



## tab (Aug 20, 2002)

You have my best wishes this works for you, for what that is worth....you have put a lot of effort into this calf and I sure hope he makes it.


----------



## wr (Aug 10, 2003)

myheaven said:


> If you have banimine or the same by a different name five him 1.5 cc per 24 hrs. Should help improve his desire to eat.



Can you give banimine with nuflor?


----------



## SVWfarmer (Dec 5, 2013)

banamine is usually not given to calves. Mainly used for horses with colic or muscular issues such as tying up. It is used for pain and inflammation.


----------



## myheaven (Apr 14, 2006)

Yes you can. I do. And with my vets instruction to do so.


----------



## wr (Aug 10, 2003)

myheaven said:


> Yes you can. I do. And with my vets instruction to do so.


Thanks, my vet typically prescribes banamine for horse issues.


----------



## Cheribelle (Jul 23, 2007)

When I have one that fights the bottle, I back him into a corner, stand over straddle of him, facing out of the corner, and hold the calf's face up, hold the bottle with the other hand. It's messy. It sometimes works and sometimes doesn't. I had one that I had to tube every meal until I finally told him, eat grass or die, after several weeks. He did survive but was never thrifty. Hang in there, I know you are.... I can't ever give up on them either. Some of them will finally take off and go.


----------



## Allen W (Aug 2, 2008)

wr said:


> Can you give banimine with nuflor?





SVWfarmer said:


> banamine is usually not given to calves. Mainly used for horses with colic or muscular issues such as tying up. It is used for pain and inflammation.


Banamine is used regularly here with nuflor or other drugs in cattle.


----------



## myheaven (Apr 14, 2006)

How's ur little guy today?


----------



## G. Seddon (May 16, 2005)

Allen W said:


> Banamine is used regularly here with nuflor or other drugs in cattle.


Yes, Banamine (flunixin meglumine) is used as a pain and inflammation reliever and is commonly used on cattle in this area, along with an antibiotic; it makes the animal feel better and so it's able to eat and drink.


----------



## MirandaT (Dec 31, 2012)

The calf seems to have responded well to the nuflor. He still isnt wanting to take the bottle as of yesterday so Im still tube feeding him. However my husband is on the road now and without the strength of him holding the calf still Im not sure how I will feed him. His nose cleared up...It a clear runny now instead of the thick white mucous, and he looks like he feels better. But now my yr old steer is pooping a soft pile with blood in it. I dont know if he got something ot ate something...And i dont know how to treat him. He is still eating and drinking and walking around. Not acting funny....I will go out and check to see if his poop has cleared up any today. Im hoping he just ate something like a thorn bush from the round bale. And ideas???

Thank you all for the help. Ive never had sick animals here until we started helping the neighbor with his baby calfs. I have chickens ducks, 5 goats/ 1 pregnant...and 3 cows. 2 of which are sick!?!


----------



## MirandaT (Dec 31, 2012)

Just checked and there is no blood in the big steers poop anymore...But yesterday is was full of it...What could cause this.


----------



## myheaven (Apr 14, 2006)

He must of ate something that scratched him up. To tube feed the calf put him on his side.
You can do it! I'm 5 foot the size of a smurf and have had to pin down a 500lbs steer to tube meds into him. You can do this.


----------



## MirandaT (Dec 31, 2012)

myheaven said:


> He must of ate something that scratched him up. To tube feed the calf put him on his side.
> You can do it! I'm 5 foot the size of a smurf and have had to pin down a 500lbs steer to tube meds into him. You can do this.


Thank you. I didnt know if you could feed them while they were laying down....I am going ou to try this now
:nanner::hair


----------



## G. Seddon (May 16, 2005)

Coccidia can cause bloody diarrhea. There are lots of articles about this if you use "Google." Your vet can analyze a fecal sample to confirm if this is the cause and can recommend the best treatment for your steer.

http://www.iowabeefcenter.org/Beef%20Cattle%20Handbook/Coccidiosis.pdf


----------



## Bret (Oct 3, 2003)

You have come from afar.


----------



## MirandaT (Dec 31, 2012)

UPDATE for today:
I have 5 goats and 3 cows like i meantioned earlier. I have my three female goats in a fenced area with my 2 month heifer calf. On the other side of the fence is my yr old steer(For beef/consumption) and on the other side of that my two male goats. The females are in a yard that has a side door to a barn stall. The neighboring stall which is completely closed except for a window is where the 2 week old bull calf is. Well, I completely cleaned out all the bedding for both barn stalls. Took the animals out, and sprayed a water/bleach solution on the floors. Let it air dry all day, then laid fresh straw down and let everyone back in. The stall where the bull calf is, is the same stall another baby calf died in three weeks ago. She had pneumonia and was left out in the snow for a few days without food. Too late by the time i got her. And when i got this bull calf he had runny bloody poop. Straight blood. So...It definitely needed to be deep cleaned. 
I let the big steer out to roam the farm, and sprayed down all his bloody poop areas with the solution. After the ground drys up a bit tonight, I will go in tomorrow and clean all the manure and old straw out. I went and got the Corid this morning, Mostly for preventative measure and gave him a 6 oz drench as instructed. I cleaned out all water troughs and added Corid to those. Cleaned out feeding troughs. And am praying this will help. :yawn:
As far as Baby bull calf, I was able to tube feed 3 pints this morning. He tried to take his bottle again, though is still having trouble sucking. IDK if its because Ive tubed him for the last 4 days or what, But He wouldnt cooperate for dinner. So I will try again in the morning. Any tips on reintroducing the nipple??:hammer:
He had more energy this morning. I am praying and hopeful he is on the mend. The snot is completely gone. :bouncy::goodjob:
I think getting the NUflor was the rigjht thing to do on top of that LA300. 

Note 2self.... I will always drench, or treat new animals that enter this farm. Every since we took in that cow 3 weeks ago, Ive had 1 die, 1 have bloody stool/pneumonia...
The big one had bloody stool....which is thankfully still not present today...And too much work/time. Lesson learned.

So...I will update again tomorrow. I want to keep you all informed after all your help. Any tips on keeping everyone healthy. Or any homeopathic remedies???for cocci/pneumonia/etc.

I never want to go through this again.


----------



## MirandaT (Dec 31, 2012)

G. Seddon said:


> Yes, Banamine (flunixin meglumine) is used as a pain and inflammation reliever and is commonly used on cattle in this area, along with an antibiotic; it makes the animal feel better and so it's able to eat and drink.


Thank you. i am saving this in my notes!!!


----------



## txplowgirl (Oct 15, 2007)

Well, I think you have already figured it out but if the neighbor comes knocking again with a "freebie" calf, either turn it down with a polite no thank you or be sure to quarantine for a few weeks and like you said drench and dr like you did this 1.

We had a neighbor who gave us 5 1 day olds and we lost 2 but the other 3 lived thank goodness. He gave us another 3 and we lost those and my ex hubby told him no thank you on any more. 

One of these days I would like to try again.

I have been watching this thread and I'm cheering you on. Go girl you can do it. Praying the little 1 pulls through and none of the others come down with anything.


----------



## myheaven (Apr 14, 2006)

We have prevail here. The same as banimine. I'm not one who routinely runs antibiotics. But the ones I get from my vet I start on smz and then a coccidiosis prevention. I know they will come with something. Always have. Saved me a ton of tubing. Nuflor is great stuff. Have always had a 24 hr turn around with animals on it. Even works on pigs. Just an FYI. To re introduce him to his bottle, try to cover his eyes. Hold the bottle and rub under his jaw and neck to get him to swallow. Add some sugar for energy and taste. Milk replaces tastes nasty!!!!!!!!


----------



## topside1 (Sep 23, 2005)

Like myheaven mentioned, I also use *Prevail *just in case this product name pops up again...Topside


----------



## MirandaT (Dec 31, 2012)

Hes up and moving this mornig, Though he still refuses to take the bottle. Im not sure if he is even hungry. I tried putting sugar in the bottle. Pinning him against the wall, covering his eyes, stroking his neck, putting molasses all over the nipple....He is turning into a pain in my butt:hairgre:
BUt no matter what I do HE.WILL.NOT.EAT!

Remind me never to take on a bottle fed calf again! Sheesh


----------



## myheaven (Apr 14, 2006)

You cannot let him go without eating. Period! Remember he is sick. Will he suck your fingers? If you can get him to suck your fingers you can put his milk in a bucket. Have the bucket the height of your hip. Lower his head while sucking your fingers into the milk. Spread your fingers apart a little so he gets some milk. He should chug it after a couple of tries. 
I yell it out he cannot go without his milk.


----------



## SpaceCadet12364 (Apr 27, 2003)

See if he will drink from a bucket. If he does problem solved. If not nothing lost except time. temp of milk should be about 90-95. If it is to cold he will not drink if to hot he will not drink. And when he puts you on your butt he is doing just fine.


----------



## Bret (Oct 3, 2003)

I have read that more calves are harmed by overfeeding than underfeeding. I feel that you are the expert on this calf now, MT.


----------



## MirandaT (Dec 31, 2012)

OMG THIS IS ALL GOING TO BE IN CAPS BECAUSE I AM LITERALLY SCREAMING WITH JOY!!!!!!!
HE ATE!!! HE ATE HIS FOOD. hE DID IT!! HE DID IT!!! HE DID IT!!!!
He hated the milk replacer. he hated the electrolytes, he hated the molasses. So i called somebody, they said gatorade or whole mlk..... So i did the whole milk. He was weak, head on the ground. eyes barely opened. I forced the milk bottle. FOR @) MINUTES. then someting clicked and he started sucking frantically. He gulped down 2 pints in literally a minute. SO i ran out of the stall to go get some more...and guess what!! HE CHASED ME......G2g. Just wanted to update


----------



## MirandaT (Dec 31, 2012)

@) = 20

on my way to get more whole milk


----------



## Bret (Oct 3, 2003)

Good work.


----------



## MirandaT (Dec 31, 2012)

Bret said:


> Good work.


Thank you:nanner::nanner::nanner::nanner:


----------



## myheaven (Apr 14, 2006)

Good job! He's getting the idea! Good job! Keep up the great work.


----------



## ufo_chris (Apr 30, 2010)

Is this store bought milk? I asked on here before and they said NOT to use store bought milk.
Only raw cow or goat milk.
He might drink the MR now that he got used to the bottle. Or mix it 1/2 and 1/2. 
Glad he's eating !!! God job!


----------



## Tango (Aug 19, 2002)

Store bought milk is okay to give baby calves. I've used it too when I had bottle calves and my own cows were dry. I didn't mention it before because some might have disagreed and the point of the thread is to help the op. But i am glad someone did mention it and I would add a tbs of butter to it and let them get well before switching to milk-based replacer when they are out of the woods entirely. The switch too soon could bring on scours. Do it for as long as you can afford.


----------



## MirandaT (Dec 31, 2012)

Yes its store bought, and right now it is the ONLY thing he will eat. He thrives again on that bottle. nudges me and hits me with his nose like hes searching for an utter. If the store bought milk kills him then i dont know what to do. So far its the only thing he will take. They also suggested Gatorade. I appreciate all the advice. I plan to give him the store bought whole milk for a few days until he is recovered then i will slowly wean him off doing a 1/2 and 1/2 withthe MR. While also introducing him to more hay, water, and calf starter grain.


----------



## agmantoo (May 23, 2003)

Do not over feed the calf. Keep him hungry but also keep him hydrated but not overly so on milk. The digestion system has to adjust to processing what the calf is eating and the amount. IMO hungry calves are healthy calves. 1 1/2 quarts twice a day is enough for a calf that has been sick. 2 quarts twice a day is enough for a several week old calf and older.


----------



## MirandaT (Dec 31, 2012)

Again today he is weak. Fell over a couple times from his wobbly legs. Wouldnt eat from the bottle so i tube fed. (About 3 pints total) He just seems lethargic, and sad.....I just dont know what to do for him.
Maybe second dose Nuflor??? B12 or selenium shot???




:shrug::Bawling::awh::sob::bdh:


----------



## MirandaT (Dec 31, 2012)

2nd nuflor shot on the way. After this Im done....Evidently he has a will to die


----------



## myheaven (Apr 14, 2006)

All of the above. Get some banimine /prevail too. Do the milk plus electrolytes a few hrs later.If he has fever or the loose poops.


----------



## preparing (Aug 4, 2011)

I say every time we take a few day old calf that I will never take another. So stressful.

May God bless your efforts.


----------



## MirandaT (Dec 31, 2012)

Ok...Somebody tell me. Can I give him aspirin and what kind of probiotic??? Like yogurt??? I dont have any, but i think maybe he needs some.


----------



## MirandaT (Dec 31, 2012)

Hey is laying down chewing....Chewing what I dont know. BUt hes been chewing for two days! Still not hungry. Im wondering if his tummy hurts from milk changes and electrolytes...tube feeding etc.
Gave him Nuflor IM today as where 4 days ago i gave it SubQ. Hes had 3 pints today, all tube fed. poop is soft. Not runny...or squirty, but kind of like pudding. He is still peeing. He doesnt want to get up, unless i pick him up and make him stand. Then he will stand for twenty minutes and lay back down
Im so tired


----------



## myheaven (Apr 14, 2006)

Laying down chewing(cud) is a good thing. Poop like pudding is good. I would stop electrolytes. Get him hungry for milk. Abrupt changes in milk can sour his belly. Try feedin him 2 pints 2x a day. Make him hungry. Encourage him to suck your fingers. Help grow his desire to suck and eat. As far as I know aspirin is not good to give calves. I never have asked my vet.


----------



## MirandaT (Dec 31, 2012)

myheaven said:


> Laying down chewing(cud) is a good thing. Poop like pudding is good. I would stop electrolytes. Get him hungry for milk. Abrupt changes in milk can sour his belly. Try feedin him 2 pints 2x a day. Make him hungry. Encourage him to suck your fingers. Help grow his desire to suck and eat. As far as I know aspirin is not good to give calves. I never have asked my vet.


At 2 weeks old, do they have cud or is he grinding his teeth??


----------



## nosqrls (Jun 9, 2012)

You can give him Pebto bismol. WE do it if we tube feed a lot it irritates the throat. Pour it in the back of his mouth then hold it shut. Messy but it helps. If he is eating hay or straw he will chew. and at 2 weeks he should start eating hay. If you have to feed him 3 or 4 times a day smaller amount to get him eating then increase amount and decrease number of times feeding him. Some of ours will start out eating six or more times a day 1 pint at a time. but rapidly increase amount to half a gallon 2 to 3 times a day.
His rumen needs to re-establish.


----------



## myheaven (Apr 14, 2006)

At 2 weeks he should be chewing cud. You should hear more a chewing sound. Like a cow. If he's grinding his teeth you will hear that. Do you have time to sit and watch him for a while? You can tell a lot by watching your animals. I like To sit and watch mine often. All my kids can tell when something is wrong in a second.


----------



## ufo_chris (Apr 30, 2010)

Yes ,you can give him aspirin,my trusted vet had me give it when they have a slight fever or runs ,not scours or just not feeling well,worth a try. 1/2 adult aspirin ,crushed in his milk ,every feeding for a week ,and he always had me give them a couple tablespoons of plain yoghurt mixed in too ,even if they never had antibiotics.
I hope he gets better again.


----------



## ShannonR (Nov 28, 2012)

A couple of random thoughts: pepto as mentioned above may help, when I had a bad calf I would add electrolytes, pepto and Greek yogurt to their bottle, the probiotics do help them develop their gut flora faster. At this age you could start offering some sweet feed, maybe even a little hay for them to nibble on. They do start eating solids fast! Hydration is extremely important too, does he have access to water at all? Even if its just a bucket in his stall... Also, have you checked the nipple on your bottle for correct milk flow? I've had nipples the calves couldn't suck off and had to enlarge the hole just a little bit. Last, if you can find it non-homogenized milk (not pasteurized, all store milk will be) its easier for the calf to digest, the same goes for cats and even people. A lot of grass fed and organic milks are non-homogenized, just have to do some label reading. 
Best of luck, I really hope this guy pulls through!


----------



## topside1 (Sep 23, 2005)

Re-read post #51 all happy days. Sucked down 2 pints in one minute and took off to get some more. Next post calf ill acting once again. Sometimes we kill animals with the "more is better attitude". I'm way late entering the game here but it's my opinion that an Angus calf only needs two pints of milk twice a day. If you insist on feeding more than feed it two more pints in early afternoon. Topside


----------



## wr (Aug 10, 2003)

topside1 said:


> Re-read post #51 all happy days. Sucked down 2 pints in one minute and took off to get some more. Next post calf ill acting once again. Sometimes we kill animals with the "more is better attitude". I'm way late entering the game here but it's my opinion that an Angus calf only needs two pints of milk twice a day. If you insist on feeding more than feed it two more pints in early afternoon. Topside



I couldn't agree more. The calf is likely full and doesn't need more drugs or more feed.


----------



## MirandaT (Dec 31, 2012)

Hes still doing a whole lot of nothing except laying down. Doesnt get up on his own, and wont stay up long when i put him up. I gave probiotics around noon. he just seems like hes slowly getting worse. Not hungry, doesnt want to eat. Lays his head on the ground or backwards on his body.Has a weak suckling on the bottle and fingers....Tube fed-bounceback at 2. First thing he'd taken all day. His eyes seem distant...I will continue to keep liquids in him....But Im officially pooped. I have given and done everything the vet has said, you all have said....I just cant figure this one out. Praying for a miracle.


----------



## MirandaT (Dec 31, 2012)

topside1 said:


> Re-read post #51 all happy days. Sucked down 2 pints in one minute and took off to get some more. Next post calf ill acting once again. Sometimes we kill animals with the "more is better attitude". I'm way late entering the game here but it's my opinion that an Angus calf only needs two pints of milk twice a day. If you insist on feeding more than feed it two more pints in early afternoon. Topside


Before he got sick he was taking 3-4 pints in the morning and 3-4 pints at night. And still acted hungry. idk


----------



## MirandaT (Dec 31, 2012)

ShannonR said:


> A couple of random thoughts: pepto as mentioned above may help, when I had a bad calf I would add electrolytes, pepto and Greek yogurt to their bottle, the probiotics do help them develop their gut flora faster. At this age you could start offering some sweet feed, maybe even a little hay for them to nibble on. They do start eating solids fast! Hydration is extremely important too, does he have access to water at all? Even if its just a bucket in his stall... Also, have you checked the nipple on your bottle for correct milk flow? I've had nipples the calves couldn't suck off and had to enlarge the hole just a little bit. Last, if you can find it non-homogenized milk (not pasteurized, all store milk will be) its easier for the calf to digest, the same goes for cats and even people. A lot of grass fed and organic milks are non-homogenized, just have to do some label reading.
> Best of luck, I really hope this guy pulls through!


He is in a stall full of straw, maybe thats what he is eating. He has had a bucket of water and one of hay the entire time, but doesnt care for them. And he would have to get up to get to them. He wont do that either. The nipple has good flow. I hope he pulls through too.


----------



## wr (Aug 10, 2003)

MirandaT said:


> Before he got sick he was taking 3-4 pints in the morning and 3-4 pints at night. And still acted hungry. idk


If you had the opportunity to watch a cow and calf in a natural setting, you would see a cow let her calf nurse for a walk and walk away. Calves don't have a not hungry switch so if you leave them to eat until they are full, you can do more harm than good. 

He sounds to me like a calf that has sucked off a cow at some point and a lot of this may have started with nipple confusion and the perceived bad taste of milk replacer. I've never had many calves that picked up on the hard nipples sold for calves and have had much better luck using an old 1L pop bottle with a lamb nipple because they don't ram all the way down a calf's throat and they are way more flexible.


----------



## topside1 (Sep 23, 2005)

Their stomachs are compartmentalized and the liquid young calves drink only belongs in one of the compartments, if you overfeed the extra milk will dump into stomach compartments that the milk doesn't belong in. Bacteria takes advantage of feeding mistakes and makes calves ill quickly. Feeding less and often eliminates these mistakes. Mama cow knows best, a little very often throughout the day. We humans need to do out best to not overfeed. Even bottle feeding calves incorrectly, meaning the height and angle of the bottle can cause numerous problems...I'm done.....Topside


----------



## WildRoots (Nov 24, 2013)

Any luck with the calf?


----------



## MirandaT (Dec 31, 2012)

Well...Im sure this was a bad idea, But i noticed he seemed depressed. Really sad. I tried everything to perk him up. SInging to him, rubbing him. Everythiung. I also noticed that when he would hear Dorothy, My other cow moo...HE would get super perky. So, while I was feeding sweet feed in the barn, I opened his stall to see what he would do. I know i know...stupid, But hear me out. He hasnt had a runny nose in 4 days. And its not like they were sucking noses....(I know, still bad idea). However, he turned his head...Looked at the cow and 3 goats, And stood up. He hasnt stood up on his own in almost a week. then he walked out of his stall and chased dorothy. He interacted and walked and even ate some of the feed while they did. He kept trying to nurse on her, (she is only 2 months older) She wouldnt let him and ran off. So I stuck the bottle in his mouth. And without forcing it, He drank 2 1/2 pints. He walked and ran for 30 minutes. Then i put him back in his stall to rest so he doesnt over do it. Could it be that my calf is actually depressed from his 10x10 jail.


----------



## MirandaT (Dec 31, 2012)

Thank you for the input also. This nuby has NO idea... And thanks for sticking with me this week....Even the owner of the cattle ranch had no ggod input other than..."Its a miracle Hes still alive"


----------



## Spamela (Nov 23, 2013)

Sounds like he is missing his momma, how long was he with her? like wr said it would explain why he doesn't want the bottle or the milk replacer.

Edit-
I just re-read that he didn't get clostrum.... i don't know them. Most dairy calves are taken at birth and put in a hutch by themselves, so I don't think that would be the problem. But maybe he was nursing off another cow...? and yes it is a miracle... your doing a good job, all you can do.


----------



## Tango (Aug 19, 2002)

Calves do get depressed when alone. But they don't need more than you there to rub them and talk to them throughout the day; it would be a lot to ask you to give him a companion when you've done so much  I once had a bottle calf in my living room for three days while he got over scours ( a lot of work for me) but the warmth, a little activity and company I think also helps. 
BTw, I second or third or forth the advice about too much. You can overdo. Calves are not like goats - the kitchen sink routine will kill them. Wishing for the best outcome, whatever that is. Be kind to yourself too.


----------



## Bret (Oct 3, 2003)

MirandaT said:


> Thank you for the input also. This nuby has NO idea... And thanks for sticking with me this week....Even the owner of the cattle ranch had no ggod input other than..."Its a miracle Hes still alive"


Got to give him credit. He knew what he was doing when he got rid of the calf. I'm sure he has been through the school many times himself.


----------



## Miss Kay (Mar 31, 2012)

Well, whatever the outcome, you've learned a lot and certainly gave it your all. If he's made it this long and was active today you just may have saved him.


----------



## MirandaT (Dec 31, 2012)

Hes with his friends again. And has been up and walking around for the last hour. He willing drank a half pint. I didnt push any more. Weak suck. Ive let him out of the barn to stand in the sun today and he seems to be enjoying that. Hes just standing. He nibbled a tad on sweet feed and is just watching them all eat hay. Fingers crossed were on the mend.


----------



## Allen W (Aug 2, 2008)

Sun shine and fresh air are good medicine. Barns are good for storing hay not for keeping animals in, Thats just my opinion.


----------



## McDsFarm (Dec 21, 2013)

You've put a lot of heart and effort into the lil guy. Much more than most people could or would do. Hope he does make it.


----------



## MirandaT (Dec 31, 2012)

:spinsmiley:Today he is enjoying the little sunshine we have. Outside with his friends again. His nose is finally wet today. It had been real dry. Ive gone back to tube feeding because hes still got a weak suck and has proven to not take more than a pint a day on his own. Tomorrow we have 50 degree weather and then snow for 2 days so Im hoping the cold wont make him worse....Were still trucking along. But boy am I exhausted from the last 8 days


----------



## myheaven (Apr 14, 2006)

Try to get him on a bucket. It will be much easier for him well and you. But also let him suck on your fingers. Try putting some feed (calf grain) in his mouth. Get him to use his mouth and throat muscles.


----------



## Gravytrain (Mar 2, 2013)

How's he doing?


----------



## MirandaT (Dec 31, 2012)

Sorry it has taken so long to update you all. Better late then never though right, I couldnt let it go with all the help you all gave me. 


Ive been so busy since that winter storm hit. It was awful,...temps down to -30. Ugh.

Anyways, Sadly Ferdinand the bull calf did not live.:Bawling: I continued to let him run around with his friends. He seemed like last Thursday and Friday he had a lot of energy. I thought for sure we had gotten through it all. He still wouldnt eat from the bottle. My husband finally got him to eat some solid food and drink from the bucket though. Just a nibble here and there, but it was something. I continued with the tube feeding giving only small amounts 3 times a day. (2 pints = 6 total a day) Friday he started getting up on his own again...Well friday night while we werent looking he had gotten up and clearly fell back down.Was sprawled out. After that he seemed very weak and unmotivated even more so than before. I fed him, wrapped him in his blankets....Gave him love....Nothing seemed to work. Saturday morning, I fed...Went through the same routine. That night it was cold. Probably about 25-30 degrees. :facepalm:However he had the barn fully closed. The straw bedding, the 2 blankets, the heat lamp, but still he seemed weak...I had all but given up hope and at that point just prayed that God would end his suffering. The next morning, I went out...And he was dead. I assume the added cold did him in. So... I was sad but definitely learned alot. And how to spend 130 dollars in one week on cow meds and stuff. :teehee:

Thank you all for your wonderful advice and help. Im glad he went before The weather got super bad. 2 days later we were in the -20 to -30 temps.


----------



## Bret (Oct 3, 2003)

Way to cowgirl up. Good work. You gave the calf and yourself a full measure.


----------



## wr (Aug 10, 2003)

I'm sorry you lost him but take comfort in knowing you did everything you could.


----------



## MO_cows (Aug 14, 2010)

You really hung in there and tried. It is commendable the effort and expense you put into it. Sorry the calf didn't make it.


----------



## myheaven (Apr 14, 2006)

You did an amazing job!!!! Even though he didn't make it you have many years ok knowledge under your belt now. 
You did great! We are all proud of you.


----------

