# Modular on a basement?



## Bigsacks (Apr 3, 2009)

We are thinking of downsizing and putting a modular on a basement on our land and selling our city house.

I'm thinking of sticking a double wide modular on a basement and spiffing it up with some remodeling work. I can get one where I live for like 10 grand or less. They are everywhere.

Does anyone have any experiance with this? Did you miss your old "Nice" house?


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## Bigsacks (Apr 3, 2009)

I figure I could put on some new cedar siding and a new roof, along with some drywall (if I can't find one already with it) and some remodeling inside and it wouldn't be that much different that a real house, it would just look like a rectangle.

But I could get it WAY cheaper than building a real house........


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## Bigsacks (Apr 3, 2009)

I would be getting one with the 2x6 studded frames of course......


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## halfpint (Jan 24, 2005)

I haven't done this but have neighbors who have. It was a whole lot cheaper than building a house from scratch for them. They were able to get it without carpet and flooring, and were able to negotiate and get better prices on carpet and the hardwood that they put down. It's been there for a bit longer than 10 years now, and you wouldn't know it was a modular unless someone told you, and most are surprised that they could have a basement with a modular.
Dawn


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## Molly Mckee (Jul 8, 2006)

Check the price for putting in the basement and putting the modular on it. Here it will cost you as much as stick built because the basement needs to be deeper to give you room for the supports and the double wide has to modified to go on a basement. You also have to have a crane lift the modular onto the basement.


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## Callieslamb (Feb 27, 2007)

Define what you are referring to as modular. Our home was build in blocks and they moved from the construction site onto the prepared basement. Yes, it's pretty rectangular. We looked into having one built for us - it wasn't any cheaper.

We looked at other homes called 'modular' before we bought this one. Many didn't have 2x4 construction - more like 2x3. All the windows weren't a thick as in a stick-built house. The doors were also shorter than 'normal' doors. Trims around the windows were plastic strips rather than wood and the kitchen counters were a bit narrower. Just a few things to think of if you start remodeling. It can certainly be done. We looked at a couple that had sheet rock on the walls as a retro fit. You need to be aware that some things you can't just pick up at Lowe's. Whether you can put it on a basement, I don't know.


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## Jerngen (May 22, 2006)

I know of many modular homes put on basements here including several family members who own them. They've all been quite satisfied. 
Buying used, you'll work with what you have. 

But if anyone was thinking about buying new and putting it on a basement..... I would highly recommend ordering one without the flooring, appliances, and kitchen/bathroom cabinets. Have those put in yourself and you'll have a nicer looking house.


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## tiogacounty (Oct 27, 2005)

Another regrettable stroll down the lane of deliberate confusion, caused by the mobile home industry. Because, decades ago, they were building atrocious garbage, the government had to step in and put them under HUD's thumb. They were allowed to replace the term "Mobile Home" with HUD code Modular. Unfortunately they quickly muddled the waters and created a mess, doing a lot of damage to the legitimate manufacturer home industry. As is evident in this thread, they successfully created a market that clearly doesn't understand the difference, and it only benefits the trailer industry, not the consumer.
A modular is what it is. A home built in sections (modules) in a factory, and delivered to a standard foundation, and assembled. It is built exactly like a stick home, (with limited exception) inspected, tested and certified before it leaves the factory. Once it is craned up onto a standard foundation, it is 90% complete and has no steel frame, 2x3 walls, low height doors, trailer grade windows, or other junk products and construction techniques typically associated with trailer construction. I live in an extremely high quality modular built in central PA. It has Anderson windows and doors, 2x6 walls, a very steep roof pitch, plywood everywhere, architectural shingles, etc.. It is overbuilt, over-insulated, wired, etc.... and it cost 30% less to complete than a site built home. I moved my family in exactly two weeks after the crane left. If you are shopping for a new or used manufactured home, ask the seller one simple question. Is this house a HUD code, or state code, modular? If they say state, it is a home that is built to standard stick built code requirements for the region it is being sold in. If they say HUD code, it's a trailer. It's that simple. There are good and bad products in both categories, but they are not to be compared Apples to Apples. A trailer is built as a low cost, low end product designed to hit a price point first. A state code product is built to meet a ridged set of structural, mechanical and energy requirements. costs are important, and they can be far cheaper than site built homes. They cannot have vinyl print 1/8" paneling, particle board sheathing, 2x3 walls, or cheap storm windows used as a substitute for decent insulated glass windows. Also, IN THIS MARKET AREA, they are just as valuable an asset as any other stick built house. A HUD code product often depreciates, a state code does not lose value, or have a negative reputation, solely because it was built somewhere else.


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## Harry Chickpea (Dec 19, 2008)

tiogacounty, in Alabama the reverse is more or less true. The state code and enforcement tends to be lax. Also, current terminology is that doublewides are manufactured homes, modular homes are the ones without the HUD standards. FWIW, when you are in our manufactured home, you can't tell it from a stick built, other than the thicker center wall.

Ours is essentially a modular with the steel frame still attached. I could have bought it as a modular. If I was to do it again, I might go that route because of the cheaper insurance. Otherwise, this place is FAR better built than a lot of stick-builts I've lived in or owned.


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## tiogacounty (Oct 27, 2005)

Harry, there sure are wild differences in standards in other parts of this country. There are folks on this forum that are real estate appraisers who claim that any home, not built on site, is seriously devalued in their market. Here it really is a huge deal for "trailers", "single wides", "double-wides", "HUD Code modulars" and anything with an attached frame. State modulars are built to fairly high standards and not an issue. The other big difference is that HUD code products have a vehicle title and a VIN # which can make them pretty suspect when it's time to get financing.


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## Harry Chickpea (Dec 19, 2008)

Yep. I totally agree. But then, after we sold our CBS home in Florida, the value of it dropped at least 50%, so playing the real estate appreciation game is always risky. We spent more on property because we spent less on the house. There are always trade-offs.


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## Callieslamb (Feb 27, 2007)

Just know what you're buying. It's that simple. You can see for yourself what kind of construction a house has.


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## mtman (Sep 2, 2004)

modular is as good as site built
mobil and manufactured are both trailers if they wheel it in it is not a mod. home


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## SueMc (Jan 10, 2010)

I work with a woman who had a modular (not manufactured = mobile home) built on a basement. It is two-story (four modules). It's a beauty and very well built. Her and her DH spent alot of time investigating companies then spent alot of time with the company because they had a lot of customization done...window placement, good woodwork, etc. 
The only thing they regretted was letting the stock kitchen cabinets come with the house. They did replace those after the fact. 
Even with all the customization they did the cost per sq. ft. was still significantly lower than a "regular" built house. Regarding their basement, they had the type that is made with pre-made wall panels that has not leaked at all so far. They also had the in-floor heating system done since the basement is finished as a living space.
The house is very nice and certainly changed my mind about modulars.


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## tiogacounty (Oct 27, 2005)

For all of you that recommend deleting various parts of a modular while it's being designed and ordered, be aware of the value of the items you are removing. In my case I eliminated floor coverings, and did some research on other deletes. The credit for the floor coverings was actually about 40% of the real value of even the cheapest carpet that they use. When it came time for things like kitchen cabinets, it would of been silly to order it without. They were offering a credit of pennies on the dollar for that. Extras and upgrades can be the same thing, grossly overcharging can be the norm . Eventually, we had to stop and tell the factory to forget about our business, as they were wildly out of control on costs, once we made a reasonable amount of change requests. They didn't want to lose the business and suddenly came down by about $8K to save the deal. Knowledge is power in these deals. They are happy to let you pay therm to delete something, they make a great deal of profit and get to skip that portion of the job.


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## Harry Chickpea (Dec 19, 2008)

Good advice there. Buy, strip and sell the builder grade stuff, then replace it.  The bulk of the value is in the box itself, whether modular or manufactured.


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## BackfourtyMI. (Sep 3, 2007)

We bought a manufactured home & put it on a full basement. Our home is 2300 sq. feet, 2 X 4 construction, regular height door frames, Quite a few things we changed or ordered different or more windows, etc. Some companies out there are better than others. We did alot of investigating & made sure the company we decided to go with was willing to work with us on things we wanted changed.

We have really nice windows(better than our old house), insulated better than most stick built houses now days & yes our basement height is 8 feet to accomodate for the supports.
It was not put on the basement by a crane, the house was in peices & they rolled it on the basement.
We have regular drywall which was finished on site, carpet installed later, roof was also finished on site.
We've now owned our home for 7 years & we really Love it.

Although it will probly depreciate much faster in value than a stick built home we don't ever plan on moving again in our lifetime so after I'm gone I'm not concerned with how much someone else makes off of my home.

We have a 2 car attached garage, a covered attached front porch, added a deck & patio ourselves later too.

I would say get your own appliances though, they do stick cheap appliances in their houses though.


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## ErinP (Aug 23, 2007)

Bigsacks said:


> We are thinking of downsizing and putting a modular on a basement on our land and selling our city house.
> 
> I'm thinking of sticking a double wide modular on a basement and spiffing it up with some remodeling work. I can get one where I live for like 10 grand or less. They are everywhere.
> 
> Does anyone have any experiance with this? Did you miss your old "Nice" house?


Now this is confusing.

I thought "modular" was the term that referred to the stick-built houses that were just brought in in pieces and places on a permanent foundation.
Once placed, they're considered a stick-built, site-built house, because for all intents and purposes, they are. 

But now I see people in this thread saying modular=manufactured/mobile. 


That said, most people I know who do modulars (as in, it's considered a "real" house for taxation, valuation, etc) put them on basements.


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## Beeman (Dec 29, 2002)

Of course it might matter where you live,

I lived in one years back. It was a nice house and I should have bought it at the time. Most couldn't tell it was a modular and the only give away was where the 2 halves were carriage bolted together in the basement. But this was a real modular.
Anything you can buy for 10k and is everywhere is most likely a mobile home. Setting a mobile home on a basement can be a little tricky, it can be done but it better be done right. I have seen it when it goes wrong, not pretty. You will have to have steel cross beams on pillars or have a basement full of pillars to support the house as it's got no support around the sills when set.


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## Scomber (Jan 30, 2005)

As a residential energy auditor, two of the tightest houses I've seen this last year were modulars. These are 2x6 construction, with good plywood sheathing, decent windows, drywall in most places, and insulated walls. One was a cape, and the other a ranch. They can look like plain rectangles, but they don't have to. And what's wrong with a plain rectangle?

Things to note about these houses: If well built, they can be very good, and building the modules in a factory where it's dry and clean makes that easy. But that's only half the build. 

The other half is the installation. Put it on a good foundation. There should be good drainage, a moisture barrier, and solid support. The exterior of the foundation should be insulated down to the footing with rigid foam, and that should be protected above grade with parging or cement board. In this area, a radon abatement system in the foundation would be a good idea. The basement or crawlspace should be part of the conditioned envelope. It's part of the interior of your house. Keep it dry and don't vent it to the outside. 

After the modules are set on the foundation, seal and insulate the rim joist with spray foam. Make sure the marriage wall in the center is sealed so that you don't have an air flow path from the basement to the attic. Make sure the bath and kitchen vents are plumbed with rigid plastic pipe that slopes to the outside, so that condensation flows out, rather than back in where it will melt the drywall around the fan. Make sure the furnace vent is properly sealed around the outside of the pipe, so that cold air doesn't get in that way either. Caulk any electrical or plumbing penetrations into the attic. Once all that is done, blow in cellulose to 20" deep. Loose blown, it will settle to 17", which is R-60.

That should leave you with a good tight house. If some idiot tells you that a house should be able to breath, tell them that's why you have operable windows and vent fans.

Obviously, I'm talking about good installation in a northern climate. I'm sure termite infested southerners will have different ways of doing these things.

Dan


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## Bigsacks (Apr 3, 2009)

wow, this is all great info......again, my plan is to not buy new, buy used.....so when looking for a used unit....(i would like at least 1500 sq. ft.)....look for the following?

2x6 frame
normal sized doors
plywood sheathing

help me add to the list.....again, I plan to do some remodeling, so i mostly want a hosue that will be structurally sound and one that allows me to remodel...IE a frame that lets me put up drywall, change windows, change exterior siding, re-roof if needed etc......


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## Harry Chickpea (Dec 19, 2008)

ErinP - you are thinking of "pre-fab." Prefab housing was popular in the 1950s when all the guys came back from the war and needed housing. The walls were built and shipped, and then tilt-up used. I grew up in a "National" home like this.

Modular is one that is built in completed sections (with floor, ceilings, and windows) on a big factory floor, almost exactly like a manufactured, except it is simple to free it from the steel frame that transports it. The codes are different and generally there is an on-site government inspector at each plant to make sure they are followed.

Bigsacks, you will much more likely find a used manufactured home than a used modular. Once a modular home is in place, the frame that allows it to be moved is gone. The cost of moving one would be much more than it is worth.

There are many people that modify their manufactured homes and in some cases they even get them reclassified.

Particleboard sheathing (actually OSB, which is stronger) is the standard now in stick-built and manufactured. Don't worry about it. Some people claim plywood flooring is better than the particleboard flooring. However... We visited a major manufactured home seller to view a display model. That seller knew we were not buying from them, and they had experience with some flooded homes that they had stripped out from a flooded lot. The plywood flooring in those homes was totally ruined by water, yet the particleboard was actually in fairly good condition. Why? I dunno. I suspect particleboard flooring may be more sealed against moisture from the gluing process. Plywood is porous and subject to delamination.


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## Beeman (Dec 29, 2002)

Bigsacks said:


> wow, this is all great info......again, my plan is to not buy new, buy used.....so when looking for a used unit....(i would like at least 1500 sq. ft.)....look for the following?
> 
> 2x6 frame
> normal sized doors
> ...


 Please clarify, are you talking mobile home? Before anything check into costs to move one in your area. Maybe even tell us where you are.


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## ErinP (Aug 23, 2007)

Harry Chickpea said:


> ErinP - you are thinking of "pre-fab." Prefab housing was popular in the 1950s when all the guys came back from the war and needed housing. The walls were built and shipped, and then tilt-up used. I grew up in a "National" home like this.
> 
> Modular is one that is built in completed sections (with floor, ceilings, and windows) on a big factory floor, almost exactly like a manufactured, except it is simple to free it from the steel frame that transports it. The codes are different and generally there is an on-site government inspector at each plant to make sure they are followed.


No, I'm thinking of "modular." Like you and I both have described. 

They come in in pieces (modules) usually two, in the case of a ranch, for example. But once they're attached to the foundation in a manner just like site-built, really, they're officially considered a stick-built house for valuation, taxation, and so on. 

Houses like this: Heritage Homes or WardCraft


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## Harry Chickpea (Dec 19, 2008)

Yep. Yer right Erin. I misinterpreted. Not sure Bigsacks is understanding fully, since he wants to buy a used modular and move it.


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## Bigsacks (Apr 3, 2009)

I am talking about what I consider a modular.....a home (double wide) placed on a foundation of sorts. I was unaware the moving frames were removed. When I contacted a mover they told me about how they work (dividing the home and transporting, setting on foundation with crane etc.....)

Around here (north east KS) you can find these things used for very cheap....even ones with the 2x6 framing and what not....

I do not want to move a trailer onto a basement.


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## Beeman (Dec 29, 2002)

Bigsacks said:


> I am talking about what I consider a modular.....a home (double wide) placed on a foundation of sorts. I was unaware the moving frames were removed. When I contacted a mover they told me about how they work (dividing the home and transporting, setting on foundation with crane etc.....)
> 
> Around here (north east KS) you can find these things used for very cheap....even ones with the 2x6 framing and what not....
> 
> I do not want to move a trailer onto a basement.


 Well that's clear as mud.

I really don't see how a modular can be anywhere cheap. Your area must be incredibly depressed for 1500sq. ft. of house to be 10k. Do these homes have a brand?


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## ErinP (Aug 23, 2007)

Bigsacks said:


> I am talking about what I consider a modular.....a home (double wide) placed on a foundation of sorts. I was unaware the moving frames were removed. When I contacted a mover they told me about how they work (dividing the home and transporting, setting on foundation with crane etc.....)
> 
> Around here (north east KS) you can find these things used for very cheap....even ones with the 2x6 framing and what not....
> 
> I do not want to move a trailer onto a basement.


OK, if you're talking about something that is considered "used" and you can get it "cheap" _because_ of that, it sounds like you're not talking about a modular. 
You're talking about a double wide, manufactured house. 

AKA, a trailer house. 

You would indeed be moving a trailer onto a basement. :shrug:


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## Harry Chickpea (Dec 19, 2008)

Bigsacks said:


> I am talking about what I consider a modular.....a home (double wide) placed on a foundation of sorts. I was unaware the moving frames were removed. When I contacted a mover they told me about how they work (dividing the home and transporting, setting on foundation with crane etc.....)
> 
> Around here (north east KS) you can find these things used for very cheap....even ones with the 2x6 framing and what not....
> 
> I do not want to move a trailer onto a basement.


You are using the wrong terms.
A stick-built is not a modular home.
A modular is not a manufactured home.
A manufactured home is not a trailer.
A doublewide generally refers to a manufactured home shipped in two sections. There are also triplewides.
Trailers can be park models or travel trailers.

Go to a manufactured home lot and look around and ask questions. You won't be forced to buy and you'll get to see what the differences are firsthand.


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## ErinP (Aug 23, 2007)

Where the OP is, "trailer house" is an old-fashioned term for "manufactured" house. They're synonymous. 
Single wides used to be the most common (and of course came in on wheels that were removed either by the owner, or the company that brought it in), but double wides have become more common.


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## tiogacounty (Oct 27, 2005)

huisjen said:


> As a residential energy auditor, two of the tightest houses I've seen this last year were modulars. These are 2x6 construction, with good plywood sheathing, decent windows, drywall in most places, and insulated walls. One was a cape, and the other a ranch. They can look like plain rectangles, but they don't have to. And what's wrong with a plain rectangle?
> 
> Things to note about these houses: If well built, they can be very good, and building the modules in a factory where it's dry and clean makes that easy. But that's only half the build.
> 
> ...


Good post. I have issue with two items. First, As a long time builder, I simply refuse to put foam on the exterior of a building. I have seen serious, and extensive, damage caused by moisture and insect infiltration in exterior foam. This applies from the footer to the roof. One of the biggest culprits is insulating the exterior of the foundation wall, creating a hidden path for carpenter ants and termites to attack the structure. I spray foam the interior of the wall, sill, band joist, etc....and then spray a fire retardant coating over the foam, this will result in a far tighter foundation, air leakage wise, and avoid a lot of problems down the road for the homeowner. Second, it is typically a code violation to use plastic piping to vent bath exhaust fans. Usually steel or aluminum, listed ductwork is required. I used to think this was being picky, until a bath fan in my house caught fire. The aluminum flex duct and fiberglass duct wrap did a fine job of containing the damage. If I had used plastic, it could of been a disaster. As for venting dryers or kitchen exhausts with plastic? I can't imagine doing this. Not only are both major sources of home fires, it would be an enormous liability for any contractor to do this. Both appliances need ridged steel duct work, connected with properly sealed joints. I prefer metal foil tape for this. No screw can penetrate the interior of the run and duct tape is not acceptable. Last, careful attention needs to be paid to sealing and insulating furnace flues and chimneys passing through the interior of a home. Manufacturer's requirements often list a free air space around a flue, This means that it cannot be insulated tight to the flue, and only metal draft stops and fire rated sealants can be used in that area. standard caulking and blown in insulation can both be fire hazards in this case.


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## tiogacounty (Oct 27, 2005)

For anybody following this thread and thinking of doing what the OP is asking about...... do your homework first. For example, in my state, there is absolutely no way to move an old trailer or modular and get a building permit ,or occupancy permit, following the current code requirements. Basically a home has to be built to current standards to be legal. this involves either inspection, during construction, or certification by the manufacturer at the modular plant. Since a used structure cannot qualify for either, it would be exceptionally tough to get it passed in our current regulatory environment. I don't agree with this logic, but I wouldn't want to see anybody get hurt finding out that there plans aren't going to fly, AFTER they dropped $10K on a nice "fixer-upper". Good luck.


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## Joshie (Dec 8, 2008)

Bigsacks said:


> We are thinking of downsizing and putting a modular on a basement on our land and selling our city house.
> 
> I'm thinking of sticking a double wide modular on a basement and spiffing it up with some remodeling work. I can get one where I live for like 10 grand or less. They are everywhere.
> 
> Does anyone have any experiance with this? Did you miss your old "Nice" house?


Modular homes can be put on a basement. They are stick built in a factory. I don't think you're talking about modular homes. There aren't really related to double wide trailer homes. We were planning on adding a modular addition over a basement to our house. We cannot afford it now because I became disabled. They are 2X6 construction and much better built than site built houses.

These are modular homes. http://www.homewayhomes.com/


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## Scomber (Jan 30, 2005)

Tioga, I will not outright disagree with either of your points. 

Spray foam on the interior is a fair choice too. We generally specify 2" of foam from the underside of the sub-floor to 2' below grade in existing buildings. But if you don't have those insect issues, then keeping the thermal mass inside the envelope is better. And drainage has to be handled right. The foundation is the only place I'd want to see exterior foam. It has a low moisture perm rate, so I'd want to see it just behind the drywall, and everything else able to dry outward.

If rigid plastic is not to your liking, then metal is an option too. I certainly wouldn't use plastic for dryer vent. For a kitchen, metal is a good compromise. For a bath, I'd be more confidant that the glued plastic joints are going to hold than that tape on metal will. Flexible metal has ridges that cause turbulence. Metal looses heat faster, and there's more chance of condensation in the pipe. Metal corrodes. But I've seen plastic dryer hose used for bath vents and that's just not good enough. That was what I'm trying to steer people away from.

Dan


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## SueMc (Jan 10, 2010)

Harry Chickpea said:


> You are using the wrong terms.
> A stick-built is not a modular home.
> A modular is not a manufactured home.
> A manufactured home is not a trailer.
> ...



In investigating modular homes I see in the discussions that I've read, you're right, a modular is not a manufactured home, but a manufactured home is a mobile home or "trailer" (maybe thats an old term now).

http://www.nachi.org/modular-manufactured-homes.htm


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## Cheribelle (Jul 23, 2007)

There is a difference in how they are made, also. Some are made to go on a basement, and some are not. Please be careful.


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## Dead Rabbit (Oct 30, 2010)

till the building boom went bust. the majority of all my work was on modular homes. these are far superior IMO to even stick built. 20% more lumber goes into the construction. everything is glued, screws and lags are used in alot of areas where only nails are used in a stick built. everything is built in an enclosed warehouse type building. no problems with moisture or weather. whereas a stick built is at the mercy of sun,rain and snow. no telling what kinda mold is in these?? 

some companies build better quality homes than others. i know one company outa NC that doesnt have the "finish" quality of other companies outa WV and PA but at $10,000 cheaper for equivalent home. a man can do alot to fix the finish work. if hes a mind to. 

i highly recommmend a basement if you live in an area where the water table allows it. weigh the costs. its a cheap investment when it can double your living sq. footage. and basements are generally a blank canvas. you can do most anything you want when finishing them in terms of layout.


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## tiogacounty (Oct 27, 2005)

huisjen said:


> Tioga, I will not outright disagree with either of your points.
> 
> Spray foam on the interior is a fair choice too. We generally specify 2" of foam from the underside of the sub-floor to 2' below grade in existing buildings. But if you don't have those insect issues, then keeping the thermal mass inside the envelope is better. And drainage has to be handled right. The foundation is the only place I'd want to see exterior foam. It has a low moisture perm rate, so I'd want to see it just behind the drywall, and everything else able to dry outward.
> 
> ...


For every reason other than fire protection, I agree with you. That said, I came home to find a "burnt electrical smell" and a puddle of melted plastic on the bath floor, where the fan's lamp holder had shorted out and burned. The breaker never tripped and it simply ran out of fuel to continue. There had been a substantial fire that consumed most of the interior plastic parts in the sheet metal enclosed fixture, The flame pattern was well into the flexible metal ducting and it simply failed to get any further. This would of ended a lot differently with an attic full of blown cellulose and plastic ducting. Regardless of this fact, it is simply a code violation to use any plastic for ducting anymore and doing it as a paid professional puts you in a position of enormous liability, IF there is an issue. Metal tape on duct work, or duct mastic is used as an air barrier, not a mechanical connection. I specifically mention to avoid screws as they make it difficult to properly clean dryer and kitchen vents.


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## alomu (Nov 16, 2010)

tioga: You sure know your stuff. Very helpful information posted by you. Many folks here should heed your remarks. Especially about the fire dangers in ducts and venting.

One question however, relating to you comment about insects attacking the foundation insulation; me being an architect, and only doing commercial work: This is how I detail out a concrete wall below finished grade:

The exterior walls are reinforced concrete, then on the exterior side of the reinforced concrete wall I do thus: Water proof coating either membrane applied in sheets or in a painted coating directly to the foundation wall and footing.

Then, I add a protection cover board over the water proofing, then I add poly-iso or extruded poly styrene insulation to meet the R-value required. 

Finally, I spec out 6-10 inches of pea gravel (this is the cumulative width of the pea gravel from the insulation board. The gravel is for drainage. (yeah, I always have drainage tile around the perimeter of the foundation and tie in to a drainage system)

Anyhow, here's my question(s): I've done this for years and never have heard of, nor have had issues with, insects invading the foundation insulation. Is this just a local PA thing? Do you have informative web links that you can post to further explain this? 

Just a old dog architect looking for a better way.

Thanks in advance. alomu.


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## tiogacounty (Oct 27, 2005)

The insect issues take place in the area above final grade, to the bottom of the wooden structure, of a typical residence. Typically, you guys design a small overhang on the framing to allow the insulated foundation to sit flush or slightly recessed under the bottom of the siding. Insects invade the foam, underground, and then penetrate the sill of the floor system, undetected. Obviously there are a multitude of methods to deal with this, from ground poisoning and bait stations, to sheet metal shields at the top of the wall. In areas of heavy termite exposure there have been cases of all of these methods failing, to one degree or another. Exterior foundation insulation became real popular during the first energy efficient housing boom of the eighties. This was followed by national insect control companies refusing to issue insect certifications on homes unless at least 8" of bare foundation exposed at the bottom of the siding. They were doing visual inspections and certifying homes with extreme, yet fully concealed termite damage, and ongoing infestation. The typical mud tunnels and other evidence on the exterior of the foundation were concealed. I have also personally dealt with issues from extreme moisture damage to earwig infestation in homes with exterior foam insulation. Foam is great, and extremely effective, if used in the proper locations. It can destroy a structure very quickly if misused.


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## ronbre (Apr 26, 2009)

we have a large high quality double wide on a crawl space, if we had had the $ we would have done the basement..our son has a smaller double wide on a full basement and it is wonderful..he put in a walk out, some picture windows etc..great home


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## Bigsacks (Apr 3, 2009)

Okay, maybe terms are a bit fuzzed....

When I spoke to a clayton homes dealer he said Modular homes were to the local (higher) standard, and manufactured homes were built to the federal HUD code. He said a manufactured home IE double wide, could be moved, after being split, and then craned onto a basement. Yes, there are lots of these around to buy on the cheap side.

He said they have a 2x6 floor joyce with a steel frame under that, which is arguably as structurally sound as a modular with 2x10 joyces.....and the walls would either be 2x4 or 2x6, whereas the modulars are always 2x6. With manufactured homes, the undercarriage (wheels and what not) is removed and with manufactured homes it normally is not removed. So perhaps I am talking about a manufactured home....sorry for the mixup. So,

with that in mind, has anyone done this, moved a used manufactured double wide onto a basement and then remodeled it?


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## tiogacounty (Oct 27, 2005)

My only concern with regard to your last post is that you really get a good idea of what you are buying before you do so. I have done some remodeling and repairs on "manufacturer" homes. They can be built to some pretty scary standards. A friend had fallen on some really hard times and needed major repairs to his 20 year old double wide. The floors had been sheathed with 3/4" particle board, which is nearly a criminal move by the manufacturer. Every single spot that ever saw a drop of moisture was buckled and/or moldy. Since all the walls were on top of it, it was real tough to do a legitimate job of replacing the sub-floor. The trusses were made of 2x2s instead of 2x4s. The tar paper, under the shingles, was actually a plastic coated brown paper bag material. The insulation had settled in the walls, resulting in large, uninsulated gaps at the top of every stud bay, and there were dozens more issues like this. The bottom line is, IF you get it dirt cheap and expect to fully rebuild the thing, it can be done. Is it worth all the effort? Only you can decide. Personally, I would rather have a new, stick built shell to start with. The framing material, roofing, windows, doors and labor on a modest ranch design currently run me roughly $12/sq. ft. That's all new, up to code, and ready to finish. Even if I could drag an old double wide in place (and I can't since it wouldn't fly, code wise around here) , I doubt I could buy it, move it, crane it, and strip it for much less than starting new.


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## NorthCountryWd (Oct 17, 2008)

Bigsacks said:


> Okay, maybe terms are a bit fuzzed....
> 
> When I spoke to a clayton homes dealer he said Modular homes were to the local (higher) standard, and manufactured homes were built to the federal HUD code. He said a manufactured home IE double wide, could be moved, after being split, and then craned onto a basement. Yes, there are lots of these around to buy on the cheap side.
> 
> ...


Hud code manufactured homes can be remodeled, however it's not as easy as a stick built home. Hud code MF homes are built as a system and adding or removing walls can impact the structural integrity of the entire system. A new manufactured home installed on a basement will typically increase value. 

*Moving* a previously installed manufactured home is another issue. It can be done by most installers very easily, but it will be ineligible for almost all financing once moved, even if done by a certified installer. You will typically only be able to sell it to a cash buyer and you cannot refinance (at least conventionally).

Not sure if that matters to you at all, but it's something to consider.


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## Harry Chickpea (Dec 19, 2008)

Bigsacks, glad you went around and asked, glad you now have the terms straight.

Your issue will be the 2" x 6" joists. Ours has 2" x 8", which makes a BIG difference. We have no floor "bounce" and it feels like the floor of a stick-built.

There are specific points on the frame that are where the primitive pillars are supposed to go for support. If you put one over a basement, you will at a minimum need lally columns at each of those points. With a good sized home, you might have those every six or eight feet, a veritable forest of them.

You big decision will be whether or not to strip the frame out. The frame is DEEP, meaning if you keep it the ceiling in the basement could be much lower than you want, or the stairs to the basement much longer and the home sitting higher.

If I was going to attempt something like that, I'd find a unit with the kitchen and bathrooms at one end, and only take the frame from the other end to make a half basement. Crippling joists is enough of a job without having to deal with sewer and water pipes.


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## Bigsacks (Apr 3, 2009)

thanks for all the info guys, im just researching it now, i just want to get moved and have the smallest cost possible while still haveing a decent home, I dont need a mcmansion....


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## Joshie (Dec 8, 2008)

Backfourty said:


> We bought a manufactured home & put it on a full basement. Our home is 2300 sq. feet, 2 X 4 construction, regular height door frames, Quite a few things we changed or ordered different or more windows, etc. Some companies out there are better than others. We did alot of investigating & made sure the company we decided to go with was willing to work with us on things we wanted changed.


Sounds like you have a modular home, not a manufactured (think trailer) home.


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## Dead Rabbit (Oct 30, 2010)

your cheapest route imo. is the simple framed ranch on the basement. even a modular will cost more than a small ranch when stick built. then over time you can finish the basement out, and all most double your sq. footage.


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## tiogacounty (Oct 27, 2005)

Dead Rabbit said:


> your cheapest route imo. is the simple framed ranch on the basement. even a modular will cost more than a small ranch when stick built. then over time you can finish the basement out, and all most double your sq. footage.


As a builder who does both, I runs the numbers on this fairly regularly. The bottom line is that you are right, IF you do not count labor. You can only build cheaper than a modular manufacturer can if you are willing to do a substantial portion of the labor yourself. Otherwise, it is a lot less stressful to just have it done in a factory. BTW, as a potential homeowner, your ability to end up in a fairly priced modular is a function of your negotiating skills. A dealer is typically an outfit that orders the product then subcontracts everything else. They work with a cell phone and a keyboard, and do not actually add value to the project. Therefore you get to decide what their services are worth. I have seen dealers in this region that are satisfied with a reasonable fee of a 3-5% of the total job, and others that want to make $30-50K for a modest ranch. Each will find customers, you get to decide which customer you want to be


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## used2bcool13 (Sep 24, 2007)

You can definitely move a double or triple trailer to a permanent foundation, or a manufactured home or a modular. Any type of home can be put on a permanent foundation.

In many parts of the country trailers are referred to as manufactured homes.

Around here modulars are usually stick built in a factory around here and don't depreciate like trailers/manufactured homes. My understanding is that they cannot be taken back apart for moving again.

Very confusing isn't it.

Your idea sounds good, there is another guy here who was advocating buying used trailers cheaply or getting them free and rehabbing them to live in as a means to get started cheaply or reasonably, homesteading, it was a great thread. It would be a wonderful way to very close to debt free.

DH's grandfather dug his own basement under his trailer and then reinforced it, wood stove and everything down there.


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## Bigsacks (Apr 3, 2009)

"Your idea sounds good, there is another guy here who was advocating buying used trailers cheaply or getting them free and rehabbing them to live in as a means to get started cheaply or reasonably, homesteading, it was a great thread. It would be a wonderful way to very close to debt free."

Can anyone help me find this thread?


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## Dead Rabbit (Oct 30, 2010)

used2bcool13 said:


> You can definitely move a double or triple trailer to a permanent foundation, or a manufactured home or a modular. Any type of home can be put on a permanent foundation.
> 
> In many parts of the country trailers are referred to as manufactured homes.
> 
> ...


a modular can be be diss assembled, shipped out, re-set and finished again. ive seen 3 of them done this way. and they werent small ranches either. two stories...one 1800 sq. ft, one a 2200 sq ft cap code and another one 4000 sq ft . the right crew can do all this and you'd never known it was done. a mod. dealer will change their models out every few yrs and you can buy thier models at good price.


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## Dead Rabbit (Oct 30, 2010)

tiogacounty said:


> As a builder who does both, I runs the numbers on this fairly regularly. The bottom line is that you are right, IF you do not count labor. You can only build cheaper than a modular manufacturer can if you are willing to do a substantial portion of the labor yourself. Otherwise, it is a lot less stressful to just have it done in a factory. BTW, as a potential homeowner, your ability to end up in a fairly priced modular is a function of your negotiating skills. A dealer is typically an outfit that orders the product then subcontracts everything else. They work with a cell phone and a keyboard, and do not actually add value to the project. Therefore you get to decide what their services are worth. I have seen dealers in this region that are satisfied with a reasonable fee of a 3-5% of the total job, and others that want to make $30-50K for a modest ranch. Each will find customers, you get to decide which customer you want to be


your right. i was looking at it from my point of view. its much cheaper to build a small ranch than to buy a mod. and i can build one for an individual cheaper than they can have it moded. anything over a simple lil. ranch, its best to go with the mod. imo. ive even known some individuals to buy additions moded, and garages. i always figured the dealer really got over on them.

your right about the dealers too. just a middle man tacking on a %% that costs you more money..the last dealer before he sold out, that i did finsih work for, he made at least $30 G. per house. over and beyond his costs, ie. overhead, salesmens commision etc.


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## ErinP (Aug 23, 2007)

Bigsacks said:


> "Your idea sounds good, there is another guy here who was advocating buying used trailers cheaply or getting them free and rehabbing them to live in as a means to get started cheaply or reasonably, homesteading, it was a great thread. It would be a wonderful way to very close to debt free."
> 
> Can anyone help me find this thread?


I don't know about such a thread, but that's currently what we're doing. 
We picked up a 1981 14x70 in great shape for $500. We're living in it while building our house.


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