# How do you plan to keep communication if the worst happens?



## Karen (Apr 17, 2002)

The ham radio thread got me thinking. I'm curious on what plans you have in place to keep in communication/news/etc. of what's going on in the outside world, and with your family/friends, if there is no mail delivery, phones, cells phones, TV, computer service, etc.?


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## susieM (Apr 23, 2006)

Other than my trusty wind-up radio, I guess I'll be talking to myself.


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## damoc (Jul 14, 2007)

27 mhz am i know its limitaions and problems but i like its simplicity and
very common and most ham operators also have access to 27 mhz
so the possibility of a usable radio net is there.i dont envision needing
to talk to people out of state but would need quick reliable contact with neighbors and possibly nearby town would be nice.

it does also have the possibility of contacting people hundreds of miles away
under skip conditions.

we used to use them fairly reliably out in fairly remote areas had 2 antennas
on mobile sets 1 small close range antenna and 11 meter wire antenna that could be thrown over a tree limb etc

but tried using them in LA and ended up turning them off with all the garbage
traffick on them


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## Sonshine (Jul 27, 2007)

Like SusieM, all we have is a wind up radio.


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## Jim-mi (May 15, 2002)

Hands down theres just no question but that the Ham network would be the only way to go.

Problem for me is that I have threatened "to become" (a ham) for years . . . .but have not.
And the good 1/2 mile away "ham" neighbor has moved else where.

My nickle says that the ole *citizen's band* would instantly become pluged up . . as before . . with those killawatt *Rambo idiots*. . . .making even 5 mile talk difficult.
I toyed for a short while with CB . . and gave up flustrated that it was\is unreliable . . .because of all the idiot violators.
Just when you'd want to make a *local for real* contact some **** idot from a 1000 miles away would jam the channel with his "ha ha ha . . .I'm more powerful than you" tirade . . . . . . .not fun.

My advice; . .Get to know a local ham.


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## FourDeuce (Jun 27, 2002)

I would use every type of radio I have available to find and gather information. The scanners would be good for finding out what the local law enforcement, emergency services(and FEMA has local frequencies, too), and other local agencies know. The windup(and other) FM and AM radios would be useful for finding out what's going on further away and maybe closer, too. The FRS/GMRS and CB radios would be good for keeping in contact with the neighbors in case we had any local problems. Shortwave radio could be useful, too, but with some limitations(which also apply to the others too). 
Remember that what you hear on the radio isn't always the truth. :nono: Back when that Korean Airliner was shot down, I listened to the reports on the shortwave channels(BBC, Radio Moscow and Voice of America), and from the "news" reports it sounded like 3 different jets had been shot down.


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## RichieC (Aug 29, 2007)

You must have missed the thread where everyone agreed to off any inconvenient family members.


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## Spinner (Jul 19, 2003)

I have a wind up radio, but I just found a nice little short wave for $40 that will provide more listening frequencies. I won't be able to transmit, but might hear a lot.


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## Jerngen (May 22, 2006)

We are newbies and I had this down towards the middle of the list. Am now thinking I should move it up. I've seen some CB's at the pawn shop the one time I stopped to browse. May have to go check them out better. Need to go educate myself on what the differences are between all these radios etc. ya'll are mentioning.

(reading the HAM thread now  )


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## AngieM2 (May 10, 2002)

RichieC said:


> You must have missed the thread where everyone agreed to off any inconvenient family members.



That was the family members that give you the most grief and won't work  
Have to have ways and means of working/communicating with those that don't give grief and will help.

Angie


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## Karen (Apr 17, 2002)

I'm thinking besides the hand crank radio, perhaps investing in a ham radio is the way to go. I think if something really big struck, where even the major radio stations would be out or nothing but propaganda, it would be important to know what's going on, and the conditions, of other areas of our country/world.

Since we have family in other states, we might also be able to locate someone close enough to our family members to get some sort of info on how they are doing.


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## comfortablynumb (Nov 18, 2003)

a good police scanner can tune in ham bands also.

I have an extra one here I should put it up on the barter board...


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## Jerngen (May 22, 2006)

I take it that all of these radios mentioned can run off of batteries too? Assuming most people are in more populated areas of the country and wouldn't want to run their generators too much.


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## highplains (Oct 5, 2006)

Hi everyone, I am a ham operator, along with many of the others here.
If there was a serious emergency, anyone that had a good radio for general class or higher could use their system to broadcast information if it saves lives, on regular AM or FM bands.

One of the key elements of being a ham radio operator is being able to operate under all sorts of bad conditions.

We have run battery power, solar power, and big generators, and along with other interesting things, ham radio operators also have satellites available for use, some are in 'view' just long enough to make contact others you can have a good 5-8 minute conversation on.

If you are interested at all study, or contact a ham radio group there are some study groups that you can get a 'tech' license after going through a quick weekend class and 2 tests.

Radios can be cheap - just takes a little hunting at ham conventions.

We always looking for a more people, winter is coming - now is the time to study while you are stuck inside.

If anyone is interested I think there are enough of us here to cover some of the basic training and formulas for tech test if anyone has questions.


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## Ernie (Jul 22, 2007)

I'm not sure I'm personally going to be too concerned with keeping up communications. The communications that will matter are going to be very local, within a small community. Hearing what someone is saying miles away won't matter so much to me, at first anyway.

Perhaps later, if the event continues long enough and the situation begins to look permanent, then small communities may try to tie themselves back together with HAM radio or the like. However something I keep in mind is that if you ever so much as key up a mike you activate the transmitter and betray your presence. As much as we are prepping to survive, there are people who will live by raiding. If we get organized enough into communities to communicate via HAM, you can bet they'll get organized enough to triangulate in on positions and raid homesteads.


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## AngieM2 (May 10, 2002)

very low signal to an offsite repeater might help confuse the issue.
Angie


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## comfortablynumb (Nov 18, 2003)

> I'm not sure I'm personally going to be too concerned with keeping up communications. The communications that will matter are going to be very local, within a small community. Hearing what someone is saying miles away won't matter so much to me, at first anyway.


wrong, your best defense in many instances will be having antiquate warning or information ahead of time.
If all you hear is an ham operator telling you about the weather 100 miles away, it might be a storm headed towards you at 30+mph..... 

Information is never pointless, no mater how far off it is.


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## FourDeuce (Jun 27, 2002)

RichieC said:


> You must have missed the thread where everyone agreed to off any inconvenient family members.


I still have neighbors who live nearby. Probably about 10 houses within 1/2 mile or so of me. One of the first things I plan to do if things fall apart is to go visit each of them and bring them a FRS/GMRS radio, and tell them to give me a call if they have any trouble. If we all stay in touch, then we can help each other with problems. Alone, we'd just be fairly easy prey. :hobbyhors


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## OneCrazyRat (Sep 12, 2007)

As a ham...alternate powered 12 volt radio operations, C.B., and even in a pinch several tricked baby monitors, kids walkie talkies, 49 MHz cordless phones (with page function) or FRS band radios. Additionally, an MFJ antenna tuner would be a plus as it will turn many common things like a barbed wire fence in to an antenna.


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## kitaye (Sep 19, 2005)

Solar powered radio with wind up option. Otherwise I don't intend on communicating with anyone. Hate doing it now, why would that change?


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## Karen (Apr 17, 2002)

I'm surprised at so many who have no desire to have communications with the outside world. I look at emergency communication plans, not as a form of entertainment or a form of long distance visiting, but rather as a means of knowing what the situation is outside of what is visible to me.

For instance, if there was a nuclear accident/attack; plague/virus; etc, it surely would be helpful to know how many survived, get ideas of how other communities are dealing with it, what the situation is with our government is, how or even "if" help is arriving, are any hospitals operating in case one of us severely injured, what roads are passable, are we better staying in or bugging out, etc.

That's why I'm thinking ham might be the way to go because if the SHTF really big time, there may not be commercial radio stations operating; or you could get info from "real" people, rather than what the government only wants you to hear.


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## Jim-mi (May 15, 2002)

If the grid is down for what ever reason, hearing about the *Left Coast* sliding in to the sea and the mega bodies is not gonna help me one bit here in Mich. 
But the local storm or______ or_____ will be of interest.
Me thinks I'll be busy enough here taking care of matters and not need or want to huddle over a radio.

Listening to "The State of Confusion" will not keep me warm and watered.


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## AngieM2 (May 10, 2002)

Jim-mi I thought you'd want to listen to find out where the mods were directing themselves. Just so you could make sure a welcome mat was handy...

Angie


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## ovendoctor (Jun 28, 2006)

Hand signals; :baby04: :shrug: :nono: :grump: :dance: :grit: :goodjob: :grouphug: :doh:


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## WolfWalksSoftly (Aug 13, 2004)

Inquiring Minds want to (be in the) know..lol


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## Ernie (Jul 22, 2007)

Karen said:


> I'm surprised at so many who have no desire to have communications with the outside world. I look at emergency communication plans, not as a form of entertainment or a form of long distance visiting, but rather as a means of knowing what the situation is outside of what is visible to me.
> 
> For instance, if there was a nuclear accident/attack; plague/virus; etc, it surely would be helpful to know how many survived, get ideas of how other communities are dealing with it, what the situation is with our government is, how or even "if" help is arriving, are any hospitals operating in case one of us severely injured, what roads are passable, are we better staying in or bugging out, etc.
> 
> That's why I'm thinking ham might be the way to go because if the SHTF really big time, there may not be commercial radio stations operating; or you could get info from "real" people, rather than what the government only wants you to hear.


I guess we're talking about two different situations. I spend most of my time preparing for a long-term disruption of government/utility/law enforcement. I spend little to no time preparing for an ice storm or tornado since our lifestyle and larder are already equipped to deal with those things (for the most part). Plus, if it's a short term and localized disruption, I've already got shortwave radios and such to deal with that. I don't need to worry about broadcasting my own signal.

For the zombie holocaust, nuclear war, alien invasion, what-have-you, I'm just not too concerned with keeping in touch with far-distant communities. Knowing who within horseback riding distance has fresh butter and would be willing to trade for eggs or venison would be enough for me. Plus I'm a big believer in keeping my head down. For a HAM radio I need a HAM radio license, and that's just one more government database my name goes into. Bleh.


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## OneCrazyRat (Sep 12, 2007)

If I were starting with communications today with the possibilities of the SHTF. I would pick up a good used ham radio capable of full band transmit. They can be obtained and used (legally) for a receiver. I would get used to the operation of the rig. For a newbie with some of the newer transievers is comparable to flying a 747 with no instruction manual:However, many of the 2 meter radios (IE:yeasu FT-2500 with a minor mod will tx 110-174 MHZ), output of 60 watts, and cheap antennas can be constructed from as little as (limited only by imagination) a 3' piece of the old flat twin lead TV feed wire or an old TV antenna cut down to 19"" drive elements a for directional tx. The 2500 will receive the national weather as well as police, fire and aircraft bands. Obtaining one from ebay I would speculate $60-100, battery and a piece of coax or twin lead in wire no more than $125 total ...and no paper trail for uncle charlie (if that is a concern).



Ernie said:


> I guess we're talking about two different situations. I spend most of my time preparing for a long-term disruption of government/utility/law enforcement. I spend little to no time preparing for an ice storm or tornado since our lifestyle and larder are already equipped to deal with those things (for the most part). Plus, if it's a short term and localized disruption, I've already got shortwave radios and such to deal with that. I don't need to worry about broadcasting my own signal.
> 
> For the zombie holocaust, nuclear war, alien invasion, what-have-you, I'm just not too concerned with keeping in touch with far-distant communities. Knowing who within horseback riding distance has fresh butter and would be willing to trade for eggs or venison would be enough for me. Plus I'm a big believer in keeping my head down. For a HAM radio I need a HAM radio license, and that's just one more government database my name goes into. Bleh.


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## Karen (Apr 17, 2002)

OneCrazyRat said:


> If I were starting with communications today with the possibilities of the SHTF. I would pick up a good used ham radio capable of full band transmit. They can be obtained and used (legally) for a receiver. I would get used to the operation of the rig. For a newbie with some of the newer transievers is comparable to flying a 747 with no instruction manual:However, many of the 2 meter radios (IE:yeasu FT-2500 with a minor mod will tx 110-174 MHZ), output of 60 watts, and cheap antennas can be constructed from as little as (limited only by imagination) a 3' piece of the old flat twin lead TV feed wire or an old TV antenna cut down to 19"" drive elements a for directional tx. The 2500 will receive the national weather as well as police, fire and aircraft bands. Obtaining one from ebay I would speculate $60-100, battery and a piece of coax or twin lead in wire no more than $125 total ...and no paper trail for uncle charlie (if that is a concern).


I'm thinking along the same lines. I'm not so interested in speaking to someone as I am in just being able to get all the necessary info.


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## OneCrazyRat (Sep 12, 2007)

I presume you were speaking of our own family members that give us grief and won't work or all they all fair game? LOL!



AngieM2 said:


> That was the family members that give you the most grief and won't work
> Have to have ways and means of working/communicating with those that don't give grief and will help.
> 
> Angie


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## radiofish (Mar 30, 2007)

Since I have been an advanced class ham for over 30+ years now, I would be monitoring from DC to Daylight here. I have lots of 12 Volts DC radio gear that will transmit pretty much where I can receive. Besides, I can monitor FMRS, CB, baby monitors, etc.. with over 240 amp hours of batteries and solar panels for my back up power supply (without using the generator), besides turning my vehicles into mobile command posts. 

My choice would be get a ham HF rig with a general coverage receiver, or maybe the Icom 706 MK II G - it has HF/ VHF/ UHF coverage in one radio operating off of 12 VDC. I like the Yaesu VHF/ UHF gear also. I have the FT-2400 (144 MHz), FT-7400 (440 MHz), and the FT-311RH (222 MHz) mobile rigs. The Yaesu FT-727R dual band HT's, and FT-109 (222 MHz) HT's which take the same battery packs/ chargers. 

As I stated in the ham radio thread - Listen, listen, listen 1st - before you even think about transmitting. That way you do not add to the confusion, before you even understand what has occured. Plus you folks worried about signal trianguation, that is what portable operation is all about... You can carry everything you need for ham radio in a small backpack nowadays!! Transmit then move. Just like combat. Fire then move, once your position is compromised.... 

Jim-mi what are you gonna do when the (Fermi) Nuclear Power plant goes Chernobyl near Monroe, Michigan???? Do you remember the Detroit riots of 1967??? My uncles were ham's then and they knew immediatedly what was happening before the police/ or the news did! 

Hey I joined the Marine Corps, just to get away from Michigan!!! I'll take my chances on sliding off the edge of the West Coast due to Earthquakes anyday, then to live there again....


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## Gary in ohio (May 11, 2002)

comfortablynumb said:


> a good police scanner can tune in ham bands also.


A police scanner can scan but a couple of many bands available to the ham.


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## shellycoley (Mar 6, 2003)

We'll just keep using the ******* phone here, I'll step out the back door and holler down the yard "Hey Kenny, what the heck just happened?" 
He'll holler back up past my house to the neighbor 100yards up the road "Hey Charlie, what the heck just happened?" Charlie will anwser back to both of us "The ---- just hit the fan!" Then we'll all be in the loop.
Serious, this is how we communicate.

Shelly


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## Ross (May 9, 2002)

I've heard in the days before the phone a clothes line was used as a signal flag system. Roll out a particular set of sheets to send a message, and a special red cloth for come quick need help sort of thing. 
I plan to be involved with the community and there are several people well versed in amateur radio so for now that's it.


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## Jim-mi (May 15, 2002)

Seems I've been called out by radiofish . . . . . . .

If Fermi takes a major dump like Chernoble , I'll follow my FEMA training and duck tape up the doors and windows.
Iffin I'm outside when that funny clowd comes over, heck I'll just hunker down in the cabbage patch. 


Take that smarty pants . . . .You thought I wouldn't be able to answer.

Hope you've got time enough to put your water wings on before you slide into the sea . . .na na



lol


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## radiofish (Mar 30, 2007)

Well Jim-mi I hail from Romulus, Michigan - home of Detroit Metro Airport where planes fall out of the sky occasionally onto I-94 or into residential neighborhoods......

Where I live at now, I am at 1800 feet in elevation above mean sea level. So I think I would have time to secure my personal flotation device, and grab my swim fins/ snorkel mask. Surf's Up Dude!!!! It's like totally tubular, ya' know!!!

Maybe I should scrounge an inflatiable military surplus survival life raft, for when we have mandatory swim time..


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## Karen (Apr 17, 2002)

Radiofish, your mention of the Detroit riots bring back memories and makes a good point. My husband (my fiance at the time), lived in Detroit (downriver). Word was still not out yet, electricity was down, when he saw a tank going down his street. He was wondering, "what in the world???". As you know, things accelerated really quick and would have been good to have known what was happening so they could have gotten out. As it turned out, it didn't go as far as his street, but he could look down the street and see the fires burning.

As far as Fermi goes, we lived in Toledo when it was built and had friends who worked on the plant (man that's been a long time ago!). There has always been controversy on the original building structure and safety. If there ever is an accident, it's going to make Chernobyl look like a cakewalk! 

By the way, I'd keep the water wings handy. I've seen the Fisher terribly underwater before...lol.

I haven't been to Detroit airport in probably 20 years. My BIL, who lives in Lincoln Park, says we wouldn't even recognize it now; it's grown so much.


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## Jim-mi (May 15, 2002)

Ya I was living in northwest deTRoIT when they started frolicking downtown..
We were on our way back *home* from vacation (in the VW camper) and we kept having politiza cars going by us at 110mph . . . . ."what the heck is going on" . . . .shoulda stayed up north for an other week.
fun times.
Yup can't wait for a few million cry babys to go slideing into the sea.
Damn the ocean will be poluted badly by all those num-nuts.

Not to worry . . . FEMA will come to the rescue.


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## radiofish (Mar 30, 2007)

Karen- I left there in 1978,and go back to visit my family often in Michigan. I vividly remember the 1967 riots, and all that occured then. I remember when the Fermi plant was built also, and I am glad to not be near there. They will be glowing in the dark, which makes it easier to see them at night - to shoot at 'em!!!










About 75 miles northwest offshore from my place is where three seperate tectonic plates meet. I live in one of the more sesimicaly active areas, so I am well prepared for the rockin' and rollin' to start. I found 2 personal floatation devices today, so I am ready for the "Big Swim"!!! 

Jim-mi, should I get out the oil spill pollution control equipment also??? For when Arizona and Nevada become Ocean Front Property?? I fully expect Southern Californnia to slide off into the Pacific. I'll take my chances up here on the hilltop.. FEMA, I don't need no stinking FEMA!!!!!


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## tamsam (May 12, 2006)

For any one wanting to look into getting your ham ticket here is a web site that has the tests that are given. You can go here and study or just take practice test to learn that way. DW and I are both hams. She is extra class and I am general class. We are also very much into helping when tshtf. She is president of our county ham club and I am sec.We are a young club and are in the process of putting a 2 meter repeater up. Everyone needs a plan of some sort whether it be seal up and sit tight or get out and go. We have had drills here for everything from flooding to western migration. You should look at where you live and what targets may be near you. Where we are should DC be hit with a dirty bomb and people left there going west or south they will prob end up coming close to here and even perhaps thru here. Depending on how much gas in their cars when they leave there some will maybe get here before they run out. Now I know this sounds crazy but what are they going to bring with them as germs radioactive or anything else. How long till we run out of gas in areas that they are traveling thru and what if they get sick and can go no longer. This is some of the things we need to worry about. Another is if and when we have another pandemic flu as in 1919 I think it was. Being hams and keeping in contact with other hams around the country we hope to know well ahead of time before anything gets to us. We talk to a lot of the midwest and western states almost every night on 40 and 75 meters on some of the nets. We also can talk into the east as well so hopefully we will know what is coming. If something does happen and there is no other way for you to get a message to some one you need to contact find a ham and have him send a radiogram for you. It can be sent around the world if need be. First and foremost take care of yourself first. Don't become part of the problem but maybe part of the fix for whatever happens. Good luck and I urge all to look into ham radio. Sam


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## Jim-mi (May 15, 2002)

Good post Sam.


Fish; 
Goodness that will be a Hazz-met kind of polution.
Far worse than a common oil spill.
When all them kali-forn-a num-nut'sis (pluro for num-nut) start fermenting, its gonna be pretty gosh awful.

I can't understand why you bad mouth FEMA.
They say that they are the best thing since sliced bread.

and if georgie has that much faith in them, then I must blindly follow.


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## Wisconsin Ann (Feb 27, 2007)

Old friend of mine was a bush pilot and ham radio operator in Alaska when they had that big earthquake (1964). They were completely cut off for quite a while...many/most people in the quake area didn't know if it was local, or world wide. no communication...until the ham operators started up. In fact, if I remember my history correctly, the rest of the world didn't know how bad it was..or what had happened...just suddenly alaska went quiet. 

Our property is on a ridge, with pretty clear reception. Once we're out there full time, I figure a radio is going to be one of the first purchases.


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## WindowOrMirror (Jan 10, 2005)

430cm/2m/10m ham

and I have a horse... I guess I don't expect to NEED to talk to people that I can't ride to see in an hour or so...

R


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## hotzcatz (Oct 16, 2007)

http://www.qrz.com/p/testing.pl

If you want a ham radio rig that you can transmit on and practice until TSHTF then you can use the website above to practice the ham radio tests on. 

Waiting until the shoe drops is not the best time to be practicing new procedures. If you are using the radio to chat with folks then you'll still be able to chat with folks after the whatever happens. Ham radios work from 100 feet to more than 1000 miles away. It all depends on the transmitter and the antenna.

If you are worried about communications in an emergency situation, then consider different scenarios and make plans for each of them. In a localized emergency if you family all knows to call an uncle in another state, then you will all be able to check in with a central spot which hopefully is outside the disaster area and they could relay messages to the folks that check in. That would be suitable for things like big floods, hurricanes, massive wildfires, etc. 

If the emergency is bigger than your neighborhood, then the ham radio would let you find out how far the emergency spreads and how other folks are dealing with it.


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## WolfWalksSoftly (Aug 13, 2004)

Woo Hoo I took a General Exam practice test and got 31.4 %. What is needed for passage?
Luckily I remembered some electronic theory and got a few correct..lol


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## radiofish (Mar 30, 2007)

WWS - one needs a 70% or better to pass the exam for amateur radio (regardless of the class license you are going for).. They give you the exact same questions and answer pools that the exam will come from. So by just memorizing the questions & correct answers, anyone should be able to pass the test if they are motivated....

hotzcatz - With HF privilages, I have worked 6 of the 7 continents - I still haven't worked Antarctica yet. I have heard them, but could not bust the pile up after they ran phone patches for the folks there... 

We are currently coming out of the bottom of the 11 year sunspot cycle, yet I hear lots of DX (foreign stations) on 20 meters phone and CW. Even 15 meters and 10 meters is picking up.. On 40 meters at night and even on 75 meters, I work Alaska and Hawaii on a regular basis at night from here on the coast with less than 100 watts (I own two HF linear amplifers capable of several hundreds/ thousand of watts). With a few watts and a simple wire antenna one can work the world on HF. I have worked DX (Europe and Asia) while operating mobile using 100 watts and a simple "Hamstick" type vertical antenna on 20 meter phone. So worldwide communications are the norm when using ham radio on frequencies from 50 MHz (6 meters) and lower.

Wisconsin Ann - when the Good Friday Earthquake hit Alaska in 1964, it also generated Tsunami Waves that wiped out Crescent City, California several hours later... I live just down the coast from there. I have seen footage and read of what occured then in Alaska, and ham radio was how the outside world first found out about the major damage there.

tamsam - don't go frightening the nice folks here with what kinds of scarry things that we train for in providing communications afterwards, just in case!!!! We also train here for "what if???" and there have been some scarry scenarios thought up by the folks we train with... Lets just say, I have my military surplus gas masks and chemical warfare suits - just in case! That and I keep extra ammunition for my CCW's along with my extra HT's and grab bag. No way am I going into a disaster zone unarmed, even long before Katrina brought out the best and worst in folks...

I don't rely on FEMA, since I am a card carrying "Certifed Disaster Worker in Communications" for the State of California - Governor's Office of Emegrency Services (OES) for over 16 years now. I have a card from the state that will get me thru any road block in California or allow me access to supplies/ fuel in a declared disaster. I know that the Governor of the State of California (Ahnold) is a lot closer, than some FEMA bureaucrat or even "Curious George W." is - over in Washington, D.C......


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## WolfWalksSoftly (Aug 13, 2004)

I would imagine with some study I could get a passing score. I brought this up to DW last night and she thought the idea of a license was stupid just to be able to communicate. What she was really saying was, she didnt like the idea of spending money on what it would take to get up and running, and having a table full of equipment and antenna's out in the yard..lol

I can see me doing this though, world map on the wall with each contact marked with a pin, speakers and microphones, meters, dials and notebooks everywhere. (I think she can see this as well..lol)


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## Jim-mi (May 15, 2002)

I remember the Ham mag from a lot of years ago cover story was
Working Europe with 2 watts.
And a good description of the very Big rohmbic(sp) ant.

Crazy thought . . .If the really BIG eruption spewed that cloud of ash which of course circled the earth for a long dark while, your hoppin and skippin radio signals around the globe would be disrupted to a degree.
Wonder what would work . . .?
---not the line of sight freq's--


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## radiofish (Mar 30, 2007)

Maybe turning on and using my KW+ linear amplifers? Using a rhombic antenna? Of a full wave loop for 1.8 MHz using 560+ feet of wire?? Or a wire beam antenna? Maybe the using the frequencies VLF below 100 KHz, like they use for communicating with submerged submarines. You know that they have that set-up in the U.P., for the US Navy.










Got Radios??? I do!!! Just part of the collection from 30+ years. My Heathkit HW-8 QRP (3 watts output) CW rig is on the far right on top of my HW-16 CW novice rig. Otherwise tube type Drake HF equipment mostly in this photo.


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## AngieM2 (May 10, 2002)

radiofish - it's so good to see a 'real' ham shack! And Heathkit equipment! lot's of folks got started building their heathkit items.

Looks a lot like my Dad's equipment, and are those some Johnson boxes on the shelf at the end of the room?

and a d-104 mike. 

Angie


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## tamsam (May 12, 2006)

For those taking pratice test you must first pass the tech test then the general and then the extra if you want to go that far. Of course you can take them all on the same day but must be taken in that order. Sam


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## radiofish (Mar 30, 2007)

Angie - yup a pair of Johnson Matchbox the 275 watts version.. Yes an Astatic D-104 microphone. Drake TR-4/ RV-4 (remote VFO with speaker, holds AC-3 or AC-4 power supplies), TR-3/ RV-3, Drake Twins C Line T4-XC, R-4C with filters, MS-4 speaker. When I was a novice the Heathkit HW-16 was my 1st rig. Novices were limited to 75 watts input to the finals. Also had to be crystal controled on transmiter/ transciever output on HF (80, 40, 15, and 10 meters 50 KC allocations using CW only). The Novice Class License was good for 2 years and non-renewable. One had to upgrade, or you lost your license.


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## radiofish (Mar 30, 2007)

Here is my Tube Type Rack Mounted AM/ CW Station. The Heathkit DX-100 Transmitter w/ VFO or crystal (XTAL) control with plate modulated AM (instead of controled carrier modulation as used in my Drake Gear for AM operation). The 19 inch wide rack holds from top - a BC-639 WWII era VHF AM/ CW receiver and power supply. A Collins R-388/ 51-J3 receiver, and on the bottom a Collins R-390A Receiver.










Receivers top to bottom: BC-639/ R-388/ R-390A










The Heathkit DX-100 Transmitter with an Astatic 10-D microphone, Heathkit HM-102 SWR/ Wattmeter, and frequency counter.










One of my HF mobile setups. The Atlas 210-X and MFJ 949-C tuner. The bench I built is for setting on the bench seats of the trucks and I can hang HT's on it also without them sliding everywhere. Or I can stand it on a chair for portable operation. Just use the quick disconnect power connector, and hook up the coaxial cable to an antenna, and a ground. Oh, plug in the external speakers also, and hang the microphones.










The Atlas 210-X installed in the 1967 Ford F-100 that has dual batteries with an isolator, with three seperate 3/8" X 24 t.p.i. antenna mounts, and call sign license plates. The radios were a tight fit, but it works even with a 4 speed floor shifter. 










Who says you need brand new ham radios, to get on the air.... :baby04:


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## WolfWalksSoftly (Aug 13, 2004)

*Awesome !*
Can I come over and play some weekend? ..lol


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## Ernie (Jul 22, 2007)

I would worry about sterility sitting so close to that rig.


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## triana1326 (Feb 13, 2006)

susieM said:


> Other than my trusty wind-up radio, I guess I'll be talking to myself.


better than talking to lamp posts. At least you talk back...


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## radiofish (Mar 30, 2007)

WWS - yes you are invited to come over and call "CQ DX" some weekend... I still haven't shown all of the gear here yet (Drake TR-7 + PS-7 power supplies HF rigs X 2, Alinco DX-70TH HF rig "all are solid state", Drake B-line Twins T-4XB and R-4B, and all of the HT's and VHF/ UHF mobile rigs). 

Ernie - that DX-100 Transmitter is so well shielded, any RF leakage is negligable. Just dont grab any outside antennas when I am transmitting though..... RF burns do hurt!!!!

susieM -Talking to yourself is OK, as long as you don't have any group conversations when you are all alone!!!!


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## AngieM2 (May 10, 2002)

radiofish - 
All that equipment is like home to me. Heathkit, Drake, Johnson, some Yaseau..

How long does it take you to wire a car up when you set one up for low bands?
We use to take 3 days of wiring from the front thru the firewall - and thru to the back equipment. We have run POWER, low bands while on the road in the early 70's. 

also most of your equipment would get along very well with my Dad's equipment.

Have you done any slowscan tv? We received direct during one of the early moon rovers or maybe Mars...

Also, use to have a 100ft sky needle antenna (also wind generator and hot solar water and heat for that house - Littleton CO, 1980's).

Angie


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## Jim-mi (May 15, 2002)

Do you have an affordable supply source for tubes. . .?

I've got a few "can't part with" Heath and Eico kits that are sitting on the shelf . . . . all working, but I fear tubes popping off . . .and not being able to replace. 
Also a kit O-silly-scope.


Fish . . . . . .And just what do you do in your spare time . ??

lol


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## radiofish (Mar 30, 2007)

Jim-mi my ham radio mentor has a business here "Classic Radio", and he specializes in restoring tube type gear. That is where I scored a lot of my gear shown above. I scored for him the vacuum tubes from the local college when they closed their electronics program down/ 2 full sized Ford pickup with a camper shell truck loads of boxed NOS tubes (new old stock). I have extra tubes for all of my gear here. Antique Electronics Supply in Arizona sells vacuum tubes on line. I gots myself a Heathkit O-Silly-Scope also. A Model IO-10, it's roughly a 20 MHz single channel scope. I would worry more about the electrolytic capacators going bad in your gear after this period of time, instead of the tubes getting gassy on you.

Long ago and far away, I dabbled with slow-scan TV on 20 meters using "Robot Equipment". I also dabbled with "RTTY" back in the day before the internet. I have also done meteor scatter/ weak signal work on 222 MHz and 430 MHz. I was in one shack where moon bounce was done on 432 MHz using an old satellite TV dish as the antenna. With very tall trees here, I dont need a tower or rotatable HF beam antennas. I like stringing up lots of wire and using 450 impedience feed line antenna systems.


Lets see, what do I do with my freetime? Kind of a personal question there? Hummm, I sometimes play ham radio, wander the property dressed in my Cammies (camoflauge utility uniforms) while heavily armed with Mil-Surp weapons having Marine Corps flashbacks! That and doing my daily chores/ equipment and vehicle maintenance (3 older vehicles and a Bobcat 843 Diesel loader with lots of attachments) up here on the hilltop. I ain't saying what I do, when I am down the hill in town!!!


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## WolfWalksSoftly (Aug 13, 2004)

radiofish, with all of that equipment, do you have any concerns about EMP ? Or is your shack also a faraday room?


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## ovendoctor (Jun 28, 2006)

Karen said:


> The ham radio thread got me thinking. I'm curious on what plans you have in place to keep in communication/news/etc. of what's going on in the outside world, and with your family/friends, if there is no mail delivery, phones, cells phones, TV, computer service, etc.?


 I joke about communication's 
after reading all the other threads I semes to have a hole in the prep's
there are a lot of good points that I did not think of Soooooooo
Ill be working at filling the hole
and purchasing equipment


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## radiofish (Mar 30, 2007)

WWS - I have other back up equipment stored in an improvised Faraday Cage container (large aluminum suitcase) that is grounded. The house here does have a corrugated metal roof. I havent covered the walls and windows with tin-foil yet though!!!!


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## Guest (Jan 18, 2008)

Bump.

.....Alan.


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## Sparrow (Sep 23, 2003)

I haven't posted in a very long time but thought I would share my communications method with y'all.

2 words.....Carrier Parrot

Unlike a carrier pigeon, a carrier parrot can stop and ask for directions if they get lost, plus, you don't need paper and pen. 

Seriously, this is important. I have all the necessary listening devices but other than phones I have no way to communicate except for hand held cb's but never had any success in getting anyone to hear me on those while traveling. They are only good for a mile. 

I want to get a set of those 25 mile walkie talkies but I know that they require FCC approval, what are the chances of getting caught using them, if only for a few minutes at a time?


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## tab (Aug 20, 2002)

I ignored this thread when it first came on. Now, I have even MORE to worry about now that I had to go and read it! :doh: 
The points made here are very real and valid. I have the concern of my family being scattered and possibly up to Alaska. Guess the next stop is the thread about ham radio operation... :help:


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## Jerngen (May 22, 2006)

We've had some newcomers lately.... so "bump"


(that and I just reread the whole thing for my own info)


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## michiganfarmer (Oct 15, 2005)

anyone who is important to me lives near me. We dont have natural disasters. We raise all the food we need. 

I dont need to comunincate with anyone.


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## michiganfarmer (Oct 15, 2005)

I dont mean that so sound snarky. I justr cant think of any reason to need to talk to anyone


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## unregistered29228 (Jan 9, 2008)

We're pretty much stuck using telephones or US mail since our family is spread out all over the USA. If the whole phone network was permanently down I guess we'd have to do without. We've got cable for our Internet so i suppose that would still work if the phones were down. I hope.


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## Gary in ohio (May 11, 2002)

There are lots of communications options. 
Ham radio giving your the largest range (world wide) and most options, frequencies, modes. A license and test is required.

CB radio is most likley the most common radio people know, radio's are cheap, range is limited range out to 10 miles. no license required.

FRS short range low cost radio's range limited at about 1 mile. No license required.

GMRS Range out to 20 miles with base, mobile at 10 miles and handheld out a couple miles. A fee based license and your whole family is licesned.

MURS, VHF system with range out to 5 miles. no license required.

No matter what system you pick, You MUST use it before you need it. You need to know how to use the radio, antennas and understand the limitations of each radio service.


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## tamsam (May 12, 2006)

let me add something here if I may. A couple weeks ago wife and I were sitting here watching tv when over the 2 meter radio came a faint voice giving their call sign and asking if anyone was listening. Well this was 12:30 AM so the wife answered and was asked if she could make a phone call for this person. He had fallen asleep and gone over a hill into a stand of small trees and could not get out of his car. He wasn't hurt and wanted wife to call his son to come help him. He was less than a mile from his home and had no cell phone coverage where he was. Well we finally got his son to answer the phone and he said heck dad just left here a while ago. If not for the ham radio no telling how long it would have been before someone found him as it was way out in the boonies. Sam


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## Common Tator (Feb 19, 2008)

The small town 5 miles from our ranch has a group of ham radio buffs. They invited us to join their group and we would like to, once we can afford the equipment. We have some small handheld walkie talkies that we keep charged at all times. We have a CB that DH could hook up to one of the cars if needed.

If all that fails, we could hop on the horses and go talk to people.


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## Blu3duk (Jun 2, 2002)

Ive been looking into some ham rigs, cause i thought i might be going a distance and wanted to keep in comms with home in case thing broke apart, so my ham friends jumped at the the chance to impart knowledge and try to entice me to go for it no matter what i decided, but the gear we figured I could use will run about $1500 on each end which includes a 10 meter rig and the mods to it to make it a 12 meter as well and the power required to reach out over the rockies back to Idaho.....

And even if I dont go whole hawg, I am looking at least getting into a 2 meter handheld for local running, or maybe a Yasue tri-band.... cause of all the repeaters being set up around the several states..... no external amps being needed for the most part then.... and not so spendy to get into.... and keep up.

Other than that it is just the old CB in the woods for now, and the shortwave recievers for anything other than local...... And I really would like to get into the old stuff like Radio fish has, I was kind of offered a 75 meter rig last weekend, but without a permission slip and a dedicated spot to set the rig up [plus i rent and having a big anntenae is not the easiest thing to pass by the landlord] I declined to purchase the oufit which is an old heathkit [ok so i know where it is gatering dust and i can get it later when i get my general class slip]
www.hamtestonline.com is another place to use the pool of questions to learn, and the $50 cost is good for a couple years access...... so it is in the works for me right now.... and yeah i have an advantage knowing what i do from being around the hams i know already.

William
Idaho


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## farmergirl (Aug 2, 2005)

How to keep communication when the worst happens? By owl, naturally


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## Gary in ohio (May 11, 2002)

Blu3duk said:


> Ive been looking into some ham rigs, cause i thought i might be going a distance and wanted to keep in comms with home in case thing broke apart, so my ham friends jumped at the the chance to impart knowledge and try to entice me to go for it no matter what i decided, but the gear we figured I could use will run about $1500 on each end which includes a 10 meter rig and the mods to it to make it a 12 meter as well and the power required to reach out over the rockies back to Idaho.....


First 10m or 12m will not give you reliable long range communications. You need to be flexiable in frequency to cover long greater than 100 miles ranges.

If all your getting is a 10m or 10/12 meter rig for $1500 you shopping in the wrong market. While $1500 isnt out of range for a ham station, it would include an allband radio and all associated items and at that price range its all new gear. YOu can do it for a bit less if you want.


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## tamsam (May 12, 2006)

http://www.qrz.com/p/testing.pl
Here is a site that is free to pratice on. You must first pass the tech then the general and then extra in that order. As far as a big antanae goes we have a single wire run across the back yard about 6ft off the ground and it talks to Tx, Cal, And has talked as far as South America on 75 meters. Sam


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## Blu3duk (Jun 2, 2002)

Gary in ohio said:


> ....
> If all your getting is a 10m or 10/12 meter rig for $1500 you shopping in the wrong market. .....


 that includes the radio, antennae, an amplifiers that would give maximum output for a general class for emergency purposes, the fellas that quoted me on such have done it, are doing it and have similar equipment and pretty much I trust them not to steer me wrong in the which equipment to get and which to stay away from as some of it is fragile around vibration and I would be mobile for the most part in using it to connect back to home to let the folks know what and where I am..... and while a 2 meter rig is fine for short ranges and hitting repeaters to take you a longer distance i spect 1200 miles round the roads [which is not quite the same as over the mountains] is asking way to much out of local clubs for getting my voice home, and repeaters are only good while the phone grid is up anyway....

and on the qrz practice site my first test was 53% my third was hangin in at 80 til my dad called on the phone and i tried two things at once....lol talk and chew gum is ok, but talk and take a test is a whole nother problem.

Thanks for setting that link up, free is better than paying for now, but i understand the link I posted is really nice if a person can afford it cause it gives you the questions you keep missing back into rotation..... making you learn better.... or so I am told... 

William
Idaho


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## radiofish (Mar 30, 2007)

Blu3duk said:


> that includes the radio, antennae, an amplifiers that would give maximum output for a general class for emergency purposes, the fellas that quoted me on such have done it, are doing it and have similar equipment and pretty much I trust them not to steer me wrong in the which equipment to get and which to stay away from as some of it is fragile around vibration and I would be mobile for the most part in using it to connect back to home to let the folks know what and where I am..... and while a 2 meter rig is fine for short ranges and hitting repeaters to take you a longer distance i spect 1200 miles round the roads [which is not quite the same as over the mountains] is asking way to much out of local clubs for getting my voice home, and repeaters are only good while the phone grid is up anyway....
> 
> and on the qrz practice site my first test was 53% my third was hangin in at 80 til my dad called on the phone and i tried two things at once....lol talk and chew gum is ok, but talk and take a test is a whole nother problem.
> 
> ...


William - $1,500 for a ham station including a 1,500 watts output linear amplifer is way too much to pay!!!! Look at the Yaesu FT-840, Icom IC-706MKIIG, Alinco DX-70TH (I run one mobile/ portable) for mobile HF rigs. All can be operated on 12 Volts DC. Antennas can be simple wires run covertly, mobile loaded whips, wire dipoles, long wires - it doesn't have to be a huge tower, beam, and rotator! One can use a pair of mobile whips as a dipole with a lenght of less than 20 feet, using hamstick mobile whip antennas. They sell the apprpiate antenna mounts for 3/8" X24 t.p.i. (turns per inch threads) antennas.

Do you really need a 1,500 watts linear amplifer?? It would take quite an alternative power source to operate such an amplifer in an emergency. Hams can work the world using 5 watts or less. So, 100 watts can work over the Rockies and around the world depending on band conditions.

VHF 2 meter 144 MHz/ and 222 MHz, and 440 MHz UHF rigs are becoming cheaper nowadays. Antennas are easy to build and one doesn't have to spend a fortune to get ham radio equipment...

The fellas that quoted you that $1,500 dollar figure - are they long time hams, or have they recently acquired their licenses?? I am curious, since I have passed my 31st year of being a licensed amateur radio operator..

The Heathkit HW-12 or (12A) is a neat 75 meter SSB phone rig (3.8 to 4.0 MHz only), I have had in the past the HW-12A. HW-22A (40 meter) and HW-32A (20 meter) versions in the past with the HP-23 power supplies. Now with 75 meter (3.5 to 4.0 MHz) freqencies for Extra class going down to 3.6 MHz for phone operations now, you would miss part of the new allocations. 

Hey if you want to spend $1,500 on radios for each end /$3,000 total, I'll be more than happy to sell you working ham radio gear for HF or VHF/ UHF... 

de KK6ZY


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## Gary in ohio (May 11, 2002)

Blu3duk said:


> that includes the radio, antennae, an amplifiers that would give maximum output for a general class for emergency purposes,


IF that is a ALL HF radio then its worth it, If its a 10/12m only system then its way over priced. I dont care how much power you have. 10/12m right now isnt going to give you reliable world wide communications. I also question the $1500 price tage if it includes a legal limit HF amp and a full HF coverage radio. A legal limit HF AMP itself would be near the $1500 price tag. 

Do you have radio and amp model numbers? What it sounds like is someone is trying to sell you a Ranger or similar export radio with 10/11/12M band and a "FATBOY" style CB amp. NONE of that is ham radio gear and all of it is illegal


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## NoClue (Jan 22, 2007)

Thanks to whomever bumped this thread back up. It reminded me that one of my New Year's resolutions was to get my HAM license. I'm going to take my test this weekend.


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## Blu3duk (Jun 2, 2002)

Right now I dont need "round the world" capability, and with the jobs ive been looking into vs what was offered this morning, more than likely I am staying here in Idaho, but what i was wanting was com equipment that could reach over the rockies in the event I NEEDED to reach out in a desperate situation should such occur, I wanted that capability, what these fellas came up with was 10 meter for night time transmissions and 12 meter for daytime [possible] on a superstar 10 meter radio with modifications for 12 meter... [ok and for CB but I understand a person cant use such to transmit on under a normal license, so whether that mod gets done really dont matter] the radio is around $250 plus shipping and $30-50 for the mod work, ss-158 EDX, it will do up to 200 watts out of the box, but any prudent person knows enough to keep it lower so it dont burn out, vibration is not a problem for this radio [one of the fellas has been running one since last fall in his pick-up] he suggested a Texas Star linear behind it, and yes depending on who and where it comes from it can cost right up there.... nice thing to know a wholesale dealer though for sometimes getting a discount or trading other things to.... its a possibility of needing a preamp for this system though more if I add a 2 meter [either a dual band or tri band Yaesu] but repeaters if the grid goes down will be an iffy ting no matter where a person is, a few around here are going to battery backups and solar panels, but most are grid tied. anyhow the cost on the high side is $1500, and on the lower end right about a grand plus....

I dont want of need the HF base radios, but thanks for offering, I turned down 75 meter rig [heath] last weekend cause i dont have a dedicated place to set it up already..... I will more than likely stick with mobile as much as possible for now, though I know once a person gets started in hobby it can get into the blood and the pieces add up [I have more computers sitting around that work but never get plugged in because I like them and work on them and used to be heavily into the business..... at least 7 that i know could be put to work are just sitting here, so radio equipment would be more than likely collected, like all my bench equipment for computers will aslo work for radio too, so im not a stranger to electronics, just to broke to have gotten in to a hobby like some folks have over the years.

As for the length of time these felas been hams, one not so long maybe 5 or 7 years, the other maybe 25 cause ive known him 19 and he was one back when i met him, and been triing to get me into it at least that long.

If this job pans out here with my sawmill, I will probably just go with a 2 meter/440 rig for now and jump slowly up the ladder though i am still looking into what i could do with the tri-band 144/220/440 around here as there is a quite a jump in pricetags between the two. and I more than likely will end up with the SS, down the road.

My online practice scores without studying are in the high 60's to mid 70's range, I downloaded the question pool this morning for both tech and general from www.ARRL.org so i can study the pool better, and the tests ive took ive been handicapped with my 4 year old and answering the phone talking to my dad at the same time..... clicked the wrong answer when i knew the right one and in 35 questions in 8-10 minutes the scores go way down in hurry when you miss a couple...... and its the easy ones i miss, the things i did not know i figured them out [sometimes] so studying and hopefully in 30 days or so the local club will have a day for tests to be taken.... 

William [who really dont need another expensive hobby, but a person can only do so much with a firearm hobby]

Idaho


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## stranger (Feb 24, 2008)

I,m set right here for life if the SHTF right now, . our only problem would be medical help if someone got sick or wounded.
my kids, all grown now know that it's there job to get here with their families, once they're here, we don't want to hear from or see anyone unless they're stripped to the waist and walking up the driveway bare footed with their hands high.
the only thing that could happen in this area to cause an alarm would be a complete economic break down and if that even happened, i'll trust no one.


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## Gary in ohio (May 11, 2002)

Blu3duk said:


> Right now I dont need "round the world" capability, and with the jobs ive been looking into vs what was offered this morning, more than likely I am staying here in Idaho, but what i was wanting was com equipment that could reach over the rockies in the event I NEEDED to reach out in a desperate situation should such occur, I wanted that capability, what these fellas came up with was 10 meter for night time transmissions and 12 meter for daytime [possible] on a superstar 10 meter radio with modifications for 12 meter... [ok and for CB but I understand a person cant use such to transmit on under a normal license, so whether that mod gets done really dont matter] the radio is around $250 plus shipping and $30-50 for the mod work, ss-158 EDX, it will do up to 200 watts out of the box, but any prudent person knows enough to keep it lower so it dont burn out, vibration is not a problem for this radio [one of the fellas has been running one since last fall in his pick-up] he suggested a Texas Star linear behind it, and yes depending on who and where it comes from it can cost right up there.... nice thing to know a wholesale dealer though for sometimes getting a discount or trading other things to.... its a possibility of needing a preamp for this system though more if I add a 2 meter [either a dual band or tri band Yaesu] but repeaters if the grid goes down will be an iffy ting no matter where a person is, a few around here are going to battery backups and solar panels, but most are grid tied. anyhow the cost on the high side is $1500, and on the lower end right about a grand plus....


What your getting from the seller is classic CB Bull Crap, Your being sold an illegal CB that can go on a couple of near by ham bands. The Superstar radio is not legal on CB and is not legal to be sold in the US, Its and export radio. 
On top of that There is no practical difference in range or day/night distances between 10m,11m or 12m. Even with 200watt snot going to have reliable communications more than 50 or so miles right now due to solar conditions. As the solar cycle changes, The 11 year cycle that will change and even provide world wide communication but Then you still dont have reliable communications you need because you signal will be heard in Australia and not a few hundred miles over the rockies. Amplifiers dont necessarily increase range, 100watts is more than enough if your on the correct band, If your not on the correct band 1000watts is NOT enough. While there are infrastructure issues with repeaters many mountain top units are already solar powered. I still think a dual band radio is a worthwhile investment. On top of that right now 2m will go as far if not further than the 10m/12m radios. VHF/UHF simplex range is not affected by solar cycles and provide reliable communications. 

Again back with the $1000-$1500 system, you should have no issues building an HF station and dual band station for that money. You need to watch your budget, but an Icom 718 NEW is only $550, add $75 for a power supply, $100 for a tuner, $150 for an antenna system, $200 for a dual bander and $100 for a dual band antenna and you have a fully working station for just under $1200. And thats ALL NEW gear.

Stay away from the CB pretending to be a ham radio, get a real ham radio.


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## Blu3duk (Jun 2, 2002)

So Gary a radio is not a radio? and export radios are lawful to own and possess in the several states, and there is a class action lawsuit by the wholesellers over limiting commerce since it is lawful to own,it should not be unlawful to sell to those who want to own such for whatever purpose.

FWIW, over the years I have there are three type of people in the world, those who understand the LAW as written in the constitution, those who dont and those who think that laws made in violation of the aforesaid dicument are good when in fact in 1803 Marbury v Madison it was made clear that anything that is repugnant to the constitution is null and void at its inception, and in accordance with the 9th amendment I have a right to do commerece with whoever and whenever i please and a regualtory agency has no business in limiting one product over another......

I have also found that most old time ham operators are not that disimilar to the computer hackers ive known and learned from, they dont want just anyone using "their" bandwidth, and "they" know more about the subject than anyone else. If a person gets two hams in a room they get three opinions on a subject concerning radio.... it is one reason many new folks stay away from becoming a ham.

AS far as CB radios go, it is what i started with back in the mid 1970's as a kid, and i still have that old 23 channel radio somewhere. I had hand held cb's, and just about every farm kid around had a channel 14 walkie talkie for awhile, most of us ended up with cb's in our loggin rigs, and on our tractors, some went so fars as to get into the "export" radios and get the mods done and do 400 plus channels [i never did, as i did not thinkit needed cause mostly is was used to impress other people, though a few hunters used it to keep their whereabouts unknown from other hunters while chasing bear] As a hunter we have used CB handheld for years to keep in touch with each other while chasing the dogs, if you aint never been out for 2-4 days running behind your dogs well you dont know how it is and people like to know yer alright and not have to put together a search party to come carry you out..... which is one reason i am considering the tri-band right now.... one of the features on that particular radio is similar to the locater beacon on a aircraft..... nice to have such a feature for JIC. For a person to "talk bad" about others is not really conducive to good relations overall, in any hobby, and well it is another reason I did not chime in on this thread back when it started, but well now i did and it shows what some folks can spread in the form of "dislike" [aint gonna call it hate but its akin to it].

As a rebel and patriot and student of the LAW, I find it astounding that most of the older ham operators who were most likely in the Military and alledgedly fought for the so called FREEDOMS secured as RIGHTS in the constitution are one of the first to try to repress those freedoms when it comes to elling others about commerce and "free trade" cause their "regulatory" government agency said the product dont fit the criteria of what they think it should..... I dont think a person aught to wave a flag in the name of all that is free and at the same time limit those freedoms as a form of control over others..... that said if I choose to get a permission slip I will abide by all the regulations as set forth by the FCC as it applies to that permission slip, I will also at the same time work within the system to keep the freedoms we have and get back those that have been taken away, the individual is to be a sovereign, not a slave in the several states, and the government is to be the servant of the individuals.... to many people have forgot what a REPUBLIC that we live in is all about and tend to call it something it is not.... yes I am on list of subversive people to the current government, and i know it, but i have not broken any "rules" that i can be put away for, nor do I intend to, I only exercise the rights my forefathers help install way back when they fought in the revolutionary war, the war of 1812, the war of northern aggression, and several of the more recent conflicts as well, though I do not see where after WWII any country ever threatened the several states in which we sent troops in to subdue...... I fully understand why the government encouraged HAM operators after WWII, and to that end is probably why the older of the HAMs are very much the first to pounce on someone who does walk the fringes of government regulations...... though i could be totally wrong..... it is what keeps alot of folks away as well, no one really likes a "know-it-all" government lackey..... not that anyone approaches that description here. Stepping on others toes is what many people are good at, I have tried not to, and I have tried to show my enthusiasm in getting into a hobby with what as people who use the equipment and who have researched the same with others have suggested as what i should look into, and as such i tired to share this with others on this forum as well.

I appreciate the suggestions of different equipment to look into, if ou run it and can show me that it s vibration resistant for mbile purposes, is not prone to distant thunnder storm problems like static blowing the board out cause it was plugged into the anntenae and the storm was 30-50 miles away.... then I will look into that equipment as well.... obviously as an operator of such equipment any person understands what i am looking for, and that is reliable equipment for mobile reasons of being away from home. As for having the power to walk all over anyone elses transmissions and such, if its needed to get from my radio to home then it is warranted in such an emergency breakdown to let my people know I am ok, alright, okie dokie and fine..... and either on my way home via backwoods routing or staying put..... you see i dont fear the people being mutants zombies, I fear the radical idiots wearing the badges and the uniform of the military who would limit my freedom of right to travel under those conditions whatever they be, radio is one way to communicate around those blockages and circumvent to make my way back home it such happened while I was out on a walkabout. So again I say I appreciate advice, welcome it if you run the equipment you suggest or can point me to someone who does [and radiofish has some nice mobile equipment in a old pickup which more than likely has a lot of vibration if its anything like my old 3/4 and 1 ton fords were/are] I aint new to radios, radio theroy, anntenaes and such, I just never spent the money to get into the hobby like I may be willing to do now or in the near future..... including getting back into short range FM non-commercial radio transmission of patriot radio programming....... like my friend had in my backyard for awhile...... but that cost dollars and is another spendy hobby.....

William
Idaho


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## Gary in ohio (May 11, 2002)

Blu3duk said:


> So Gary a radio is not a radio? and export radios are lawful to own and possess in the several states, and there is a class action lawsuit by the wholesellers over limiting commerce since it is lawful to own,it should not be unlawful to sell to those who want to own such for whatever purpose.


Radio's are controlled by the FCC at a federal level, Radio's and for that matter most electronics(not JUST transmitters) require FCC approval or certification. Can you please cite reference to the law suit the whole sellers have? Regardless, the superstar 10 meter radio is not legal to sell and is not FCC type accepted for use in the US. As reference Here is at least one FCC action against export shops. http://www.fcc.gov/eb/FieldNotices/2003/DOC-253693A1.html
http://www.fcc.gov/eb/FieldNotices/2003/DOC-253693A1.html
here is a nice background piece http://swap.qth.com/fcc/fcc-cbtable2.htm
Regarding, the lawful to own it should be lawful to sell, Since you can not legal sell it, you cant own it. Someone had to break the law to allow you to get it and just because someone wants it shouldn't mean you throw away laws.



> Regarding your FWIW, over the years I have there are three type of people in the world..
> ..............


You might want to check the constitution, Article 1, Section 8 - Powers of Congress Clause 3 "To regulate Commerce ". 



> I have also found that most old time ham operators are not that disimilar to the computer hackers ive known and learned from, they dont want just anyone using "their" bandwidth,


Again, type baffle them with BS text . I dont think anyone, specifically myself have tried to keep you away from ham radio, I have encouraged you. You were told the radio's gear you getting is illegal and WILL NOT DO what you want it to do. 



> AS far as CB radios go, it is what i started with back in the mid 1970's as a kid, and i still have that old 23 channel radio somewhere. I had hand held cb's, and just about every farm kid around had a channel 14 walkie talkie for awhile, most of us ended up with cb's in our loggin rigs


I used CB back in the 70's as well, I have CB in all my vehicles now. there is nothing wrong with CB's. I wouldn't advise using one while hunting, That would be illegal in Ohio, but thats a DNR issues not FCC issue.




> As a rebel and patriot and student of the LAW, I find it astounding that most of the older ham operators who were most likely in the Military and alledgedly fought for the so called FREEDOMS secured as RIGHTS in the constitution are one of the first to try to repress those freedoms when it comes to elling others about commerce and "free trade" cause their "regulatory" government agency said the product dont fit the criteria of what they think it should.....


Not sure how to address this, Its sounds like a bunch of rambling, but. Those freedoms and rights you talk about dont give you the freedom or rights to do whatever you like. They setup a set of rules for everyone to follow. 



> I appreciate the suggestions of different equipment to look into, if ou run it and can show me that it s vibration resistant for mbile purposes, is not prone to distant thunnder storm problems like static blowing the board out cause it was plugged into the anntenae and the storm was 30-50 miles away.... then I will look into that equipment as well....


Again, Classic CB BS scare tactics. Any radio built to proper engineering standards is not going to blow a board because of a distant storm. heck It should blow a board even if the storm passes by. Unless the is a very nearby or direct lighting strike a proper radio shouldn't have an issue with storms.
As for vibration resistant, No CB radio is certified as vibration resistant. Most UHF/VHF ham radio are designed for mobile use and many HF radio are as well.
They bounce around more than enough to handle whatever vibration you can throw at it. Heck several radio have MIL SPECS for vibration, dust and water. Granted "MILL SPECS" have little meaning unless you look at the specific specs.

Your more power to talk over someone in an emergency is yet another cb mentality. If you have an emergency or even if you just need to make a call on the ham radio, You simply break in to the conversation and ask to use the frequency for a moment. You make you call, you tell your loved ones your OK and the other ham's go back to there conversation. Happens all the time. 
You dont need to power to talk over someone, also with the ham radio's you can always just move to another frequency and make the call on a clear channel.

Ill ignore the rest of the mutant zombies and government roadblock stuff, sound like more ranting.

You ask about gear, you were given advise on what gear to get. You were also told what you were looking at was not legal and wouldnt do what you wanted to do. How much more help do you need.


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## AngieM2 (May 10, 2002)

Gary - thank you for giving a civil and consise answer.
Angie


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## Ernie (Jul 22, 2007)

Blueduck's response did put me in mind to thinking ... 

A number of you HAM radio operators are just as radical as I am, surely. How do you feel about having to get a license to utilize the airwaves, which could be considered a natural resource? 

I'm more in line with Michiganfarmer, in not particularly finding relevance to carry on conversations long distance in a prolonged outage. Those that are critical to my survival are close enough to walk over and visit.


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## radiofish (Mar 30, 2007)

William - I drive a couple of Ford F-100's (1967 and 1969) that vibrate a lot, yet I operate my ham radios mobile with no problems..

The 10 meter (28 MHz) and 12 meter (26 MHz) bands are usable during daylight hours. The radio you want would not be viable for the uses that you posted about. You can't change the laws of physics, as to how radiowave propagation works... As the sun sets, the ionosphere changes and those bands loose the ability to communicate at a distance that you want. The MUF (Maximun Usable Frequency) drops to 14 MHz (20 meters) then down to 40 meters (7.0 MHz) and 75 meters (3.5 MHz) as night progresses. A 160 meter 1.8 MHz antenna is tough to use for mobile use, but can be done. It takes two licensed hams to communicate legally over the radio, will the person you are trying to communicate with have a ham radio license?? 

I may have an Advanced Class ham radio license, yet I still go to my radio mentor to gain new knowledge. I am smart enough to know, that I do not know everything - even with 6 degrees and as a member of MENSA the high IQ society.

Well most hams don't mind sharing their bandwidth that is granted by our FCC issued licenses/ permission slips. That and export only radios used domestically, are frowned upon by the FCC/ Federalies and can be confiscated with a fine attached to their actions...

Ernie - I am in favor of testing and having to get a license to transmit on the ham radio frequencies. The FCC has lowered the bar and requirements the last few years to make it sooo much easier for one to obtain an amateur radio license. Otherwise there are CB, FMRS, and other radios that do not require a license.


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## WolfWalksSoftly (Aug 13, 2004)

This has been a great thread. I feel as if I am listening in on a round table conversation between experienced Ham's. Thanks for all the info.


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## tamsam (May 12, 2006)

Well we still have several cbs here but not used much. One base here and mobile in the car and truck. One reason they aren't used much is the language used on them. A lot of the people that use cb uses 4 letter words so much it is sickening. Now on the ham bands you don't get that because it is controlled by the FCC and everyone knows who you are. We keep the cbs up and running because in case of flooding or any other disaster there is so many people around this area that have cbs in their homes and if we need road reports the truck drivers that run US50 and I79 are a wealth of imformation. With the system we have here there is not a spot within 50 miles of here that DW and myself can not talk to each other by cb. On 10 meters we do pretty good and on 75 we do really good but the isn't to many mobile 75 meter rigs out there, 40 meter is pretty good and more mobile but if needed we can set up relays across the nation which is something we are going to try to get going in the near future. Each band whether it be cb or ham has its place and its good and bads. Thru the computer and a little program I can talk by voice all over the world using Echo link. The only problem with it is when the internet goes so does it. I know of a few people that have ham tickets and no radio yet but talk all over using the echo link as some stations are linked to repeaters. Dang can you tell we like our radios. There is 4 on here right now. One on 246.685, one on 145.390, one on 28.3850 and one on 3.842.00 Sam


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## Gary in ohio (May 11, 2002)

Language on CB can be non family friendly, I found that mainly on ch 19. Other local community channels, not so much. 


For those in Ohio or near by state and interested in ham radio, purchasing gear or wondering around with other hams, The Dayton Hamvention is may 16,17 and 18th. Its one of the largest gathering of ham radio operators in the world. 25K-30K people show up for that event.


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## NoClue (Jan 22, 2007)

Well, after 30 years of wanting to do it, I finally went and took my test for an amateur license. I passed elements 2 and 3 to pick up a general. Now I just have to figure out how to put up an antenna without freaking out the wife or neighbors.


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## AngieM2 (May 10, 2002)

Thin wires and a match box. Hides a multitude of antennas.


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## Gary in ohio (May 11, 2002)

NoClue said:


> Well, after 30 years of wanting to do it, I finally went and took my test for an amateur license. I passed elements 2 and 3 to pick up a general. Now I just have to figure out how to put up an antenna without freaking out the wife or neighbors.


Congrats. THere are lots of ways to hide antennas, but wire antenna's are pretty much unseen for most people. Get patriotic, that flagpole makes a nice vertical antenna.


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## radiofish (Mar 30, 2007)

Back when I lived in an antenna restrictive housing, I used an end fed wire in the attic. Of course I used a Johnson Matchbox or an impedience matching network.

Here is the www.ac6v.com links for antennas. Towards the bottom of the page of links is the "Stealth Antenna" section.

http://ac6v.com/antprojects.htm#STANT

Have fun building your "ham shack" and antenna system, to get on the air soon


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## NoClue (Jan 22, 2007)

Next up I plan to do the NWS' Skywarn training. I'd really like to get involved with ARES, but anything likely to involve ARES is also likely to mean a busy time at work.


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## fordy (Sep 13, 2003)

...............The thing is , is , all government communications related to population control and law enforcement will , eventually be scrambled so a conventional receiver will be virtually useless in so far as trying too monitor what big brother is planning to do For Us , or TOO us !!!
...............Second , for those who want to maintain effective communications you need to understand the fundamentals of building simple , wire dipole(half wave length) antennas . You need to understand how to 'tune' an antenna so as to eliminate as far as possible the standing wave ratio as solid state(transistor) based transmitters will die do to excessive internal heat and a mismatch between the chosen frequency of operation and the reasonant frequency of your antenna . This is where an antenna tuner becomes an invaluable and a necessary piece of equipment . I could go on but enough for now . Somehow I missed this thread ? , fordy:clap:


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## Bob_W_in_NM (Sep 28, 2003)

"One of my HF mobile setups. The Atlas 210-X and MFJ 949-C tuner. The bench I built is for setting on the bench seats of the trucks and I can hang HT's on it also without them sliding everywhere. Or I can stand it on a chair for portable operation. Just use the quick disconnect power connector, and hook up the coaxial cable to an antenna, and a ground. Oh, plug in the external speakers also, and hang the microphones."

*****************

I also have an Atlas 210-X. It's my "back up HF transceiver". I've also got several of the hard to find accessories that Herb Johnson offered for it. Nice
old transceiver for the technology of the time and a good "entry level" HF rig.
100% "solid state" as well.

My primary HF transceiver these days is an Icom 718. Plenty of knobs and buttons for me and it does what it needs to do. I don't use an amplifier here and just wire antennas for HF. I still talk pretty much all over the world.

Bob


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## SKYDRIFTER (May 4, 2008)

I am an Amateur Radio Operator; KB3ICI. I would suggest that everyone check out Amateur Radio. It is THE best back up when cell towers, land lines go down.
There are weather networks to keep you up to date on severe storms. Emergency networks for civil emergencies, all handled by volunteer radio operators! An amazing group of people! You can get licensed, get radio gear, set up your own antenna, and on the air in no time! Not to mention, it's a great hobby and you meet some great people!

73, KB3ICI


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## AngieM2 (May 10, 2002)

Welcome to HT and this forum Skydrifter.

73
WB8RME
Angie


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## radiofish (Mar 30, 2007)

SKYDRIFTER - yes amateur radio is a valueable tool when a disaster occurs....
By the way welcome to the forum, there are several other hams that post here.
73's 
de KK6ZY


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## soulsurvivor (Jul 4, 2004)

I'll probably be flying a kite.


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## NoClue (Jan 22, 2007)

I have a license now, I'm KJ4EEM. I'll be up on HF soon (building rig now), maybe I'll talk to some of you


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## AngieM2 (May 10, 2002)

NoClue - congratulations on getting your license. And have fun getting your rig together and putting up an antenna.

You do know - that the worse the weather when putting up the antenna, the better it will work, don't you. :rock:

Angie


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## NoClue (Jan 22, 2007)

I always thought it worked the other way around: That putting up an antenna, tower, or significant work on either attracted bad weather, and the higher the antenna or more extensive the work, the worse and more prolonged the weather.


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## AngieM2 (May 10, 2002)

NoClue said:


> I always thought it worked the other way around: That putting up an antenna, tower, or significant work on either attracted bad weather, and the higher the antenna or more extensive the work, the worse and more prolonged the weather.


I think you need to experiment and report back.:shrug:
Angie


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## NoClue (Jan 22, 2007)

Having been a television chief engineer for 5 years now with two different towers to worry about, I'd say I have pretty conclusive proof.


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## AngieM2 (May 10, 2002)

Okay - NoClue - guess you have your expert qualifications on this one. 
:bow::bow::bow:


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## radiofish (Mar 30, 2007)

NoClue said:


> Having been a television chief engineer for 5 years now with two different towers to worry about, I'd say I have pretty conclusive proof.


NoClue - I always thought that you became a ham 1st, then a broadcast engineer 2nd. The Chief Broadcasting Engineers around here are all long time hams, my current electronics elmer/ mentor spent 30+ years as a broadcast engineer. I was his extra pair of hands, when he had to do some maintenance on the air.

You should have access to heliax feed line, and then you can charge it with nitrogen to feed your phased array multiple verticle dipoles. You should have access to large transformers, chokes, tubes/ sockets/ and chimneys, etc., to build yourself a 10KW linear amplifer. I'm a tube type person, but will work with semi-conductors if I have to....

The antennas that I put up in incliment weather, always seem to do better as to the support halyards staying up in the trees. The jury is still out as to any extra dB gain, from them being put up in the rain/ wind.


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## Bob_W_in_NM (Sep 28, 2003)

I'm sure many of you remember the magazine "Mother Earth News" from the early days when John Shuttleworth was the publisher. This was before it became a "slick, yuppiefied" publication. I was a subscriber way back then and the magazine was packed with information, even if some of the political opinions expressed therein were considerably farther left of my own.

So, this was a time, back in the 1970's when the internet did not exist even as a figment of Al Gore's imagination and a long distance telephone call was expensive.

There was a column in Mother Earth News, written by amateur radio operator 
Copthorne Macdonald called "New Directions Radio". Back in those days there
were several high frequency amateur radio nets (regional and continental) geared to people of the same general persuasion that read _these_ forums.

Here is a link to one of Macdonald's columns:

http://www.motherearthnews.com/Nature-Community/1974-05-01/New-Directions-Radio.aspx

If you want to search around in the Mother Earth archives online using his name or the name of the column, you can find the rest of them. (It ran for quite awhile in every issue.)

I wasn't a licensed amateur back in those days but I used to "read the mail" on some of those 'nets with an old Hallicrafters receiver. Pretty interesting most of the time. A fairly large percentage of the people on the nets were
operating with some sort of an "off grid" power source too and few of the
"on grid" people were using amplifiers.

Anyway, if anyone here is interested in doing a little research on the 'net into this and expressing an opinion as to whether something like this might have a current or future utility, I'd be interested in knowing. I've read all the columns and especially considering the time frame, the entire concept is pretty impressive to me.

By the way, Copthorne Macdonald is credited as being the inventor of amateur SSTV (Slow Scan Television). As far as I know he's still around,
living on Prince Edward Island, Canada, using the callsign VY2CM.

Bob


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## NoClue (Jan 22, 2007)

radiofish said:


> NoClue - I always thought that you became a ham 1st, then a broadcast engineer 2nd. The Chief Broadcasting Engineers around here are all long time hams, my current electronics elmer/ mentor spent 30+ years as a broadcast engineer. I was his extra pair of hands, when he had to do some maintenance on the air.
> 
> You should have access to heliax feed line, and then you can charge it with nitrogen to feed your phased array multiple verticle dipoles. You should have access to large transformers, chokes, tubes/ sockets/ and chimneys, etc., to build yourself a 10KW linear amplifer. I'm a tube type person, but will work with semi-conductors if I have to....
> 
> The antennas that I put up in incliment weather, always seem to do better as to the support halyards staying up in the trees. The jury is still out as to any extra dB gain, from them being put up in the rain/ wind.


I'm a non-conformist :shrug:

Honestly, the biggest reason I never became a ham was because I didn't really have anything to say to anyone I didn't already know. The only reason I became one now is because I have the time and the money and the test equipment to do some experimentation. I'm interested in the emergency communications aspect, but mostly my aim is low-power, homebrew kind of stuff.


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## radiofish (Mar 30, 2007)

Bump...

For those that think of how they will to communicate after TSHTF... It is good to just listen, and be in the know as to what is occuring when the lights go out!!!

One could always use a couple of tin cans and a long string.....


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## WolfWalksSoftly (Aug 13, 2004)

I had forgotten about this thread. It was the one that got me going again.

I purchased a scanner, and then got the old Cobra 2000GTL peaked/tuned and back on the air.
Purchased a set of MURS for use around the stead.
Now if I can just save up for that YAESU - FT-857D


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## AngieM2 (May 10, 2002)

Bumping again as some from GC may be coming to read about Ham Radio


results of "ham radio" search in this forum...

http://www.homesteadingtoday.com/search.php?searchid=2382503

Give 3 pages of threads that mention Ham Radio.


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## sixfootrabbit (Jul 1, 2009)

I will use my owl :nana: :wizard:


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## Sarabeth (Sep 14, 2008)

Bump....Is this the one you wanted bumped?


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## Jerngen (May 22, 2006)

Yes, Thank you and to Tallpines as well. Now I have to go find the Ham thread mentioned. 
(Hey Ernie, I read your comments yesterday about need for community/communications/phone tree and then read this old thread where your views were a bit different. Was just interesting to see the changes in thinking....... which of course is healthy for all of us to do). 
Off to find the Ham thread .


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