# Custom woodstove soon to be modified...radiator...



## ChristieAcres (Apr 11, 2009)

Thought this may be interesting and for you handy guys/gals, would love to get your input. DH (Len) is actually working on this project as I type (11:07pm- when this guy is on it, I just step out of the way). Now, for the picture of the Wood Stove he designed and built for us last year:








Any interest in how this wood stove works, let me know. Our blower currently works as a heatilator... DH was given an old Radiator. Earlier today, he sand-blasted it, and painted it black (I preferred gold, but hey, later, I guess). We had talked about the water pump yesterday...he wanted to install it under the master br sink...I am a light sleeper and would be able to hear it (that wouldn't work too well). A few hours ago, he was walking out front with a water pump in his hand, and he explained he was installing it in the water-heater space next to the water heater (good, I won't be able to hear it now at night- he got a hug for that). About an hour ago, he walked in and told me NOT to touch the thermostat in our br (something about a short...). I took that to mean I'd be electrocuted, so figured I'd just follow instructions. Since it was pretty quiet for the last 30 minutes, I went outside to find out what he was doing. A noise under our home startled me, and I realized he was under there. I called out to him and he asked me to pull the wire up through (beside the water heater) the floor. That done, I left him outside working on the project, which is:

Radiator in our bedroom at the far end of our double-wide mobile home (the wood stove is in our living room). He is installing the Radiator in our BR, the hot water line through the bathroom, which connects directly (under the floor) to the water heater, and pumped to circulate via the pump he is installing. This is temporary.

Next step is to modify the existing wood stove. Since the left side has a chamber built in, that is where the coils will be installed, and the pipe (s) will then go through the inside of the woodstove. The pipe connected to this will be sending cold water through the woodstove then the hot water back to the water heater, which also will send it to the radiator system. In the summer, the Propane will heat the water. That is, until he/we come up with something else... I am great for the ideas, he is great for the know-how (sometimes both).

Yes, I will post a picture of the radiator in this thread and more pics until the job is complete. Thought it would be interesting for you who are capable of doing this type of work. Regardless if someone may have a better idea, I am pleased I'll be warm this Winter  Yes, DH gets another hug!


----------



## Ross (May 9, 2002)

Sounds like he is building a closed hot water system. He'll need a temperature and pressure release valve in the system somewhere. Or he could end up with a ruptured line/rad/resivoir with resulting inury or damages. The pump is rated for hot water? Neat idea thanks for sharing it with us!


----------



## agmantoo (May 23, 2003)

A closed system on a wood fired stove is dangerous. Even UL rated water heaters with proper thermostats and relief valves have been known to malfunction and blow the roof off of homes.


----------



## Ross (May 9, 2002)

Hmmm now I'm more awake he needs an expansion tank in there too. Super heated water (over 212 f) flashes to steam if the pressure is suddenly released. Expands by volume 14,000 times the original volume so 10 gallons of water is roughly 12.5 cubic feet (check my guess) flashes to 175,000 cubic feet of steam. Your house goes ka boom. The simple (so long as it works) is to keep it as an open system. I hope he's adding a de-airation valve and make up water too for either a closed or open system.


----------



## ChristieAcres (Apr 11, 2009)

Thanks for all the responses! Since Len had explained some of this to me, those questions and comments about water temperature, relief valves, gauges, etc... I figured for the sake of this thread, and anyone reading it, that I better address them. 

So, I read your messages out loud to Len and asked him to explain(he doesn't go near my computer), and he said "Duh, this is basic physics, Lori. I am not going to set up a dangerous heating system." Okay, I must admit the idea of my roof blowing off wasn't appealing... Len laughed, telling me he knew what he was doing so no worries. But then, he did tell me that accidents occur with improperly set up systems. I took the time to get my 101 and have no concerns with his plans whatsoever now. All the proper heat sensors, gauges, relief valves, etc... will all be installed. As he does the job, I will post what he is using, pics of the steps involved, and final pics (with appropriate warnings). I do appreciate and understand the concern.

Yes, it is critical you know what you are doing when setting up a heating system like this (or any that includes hot water). Len's father is an Engineer, and he was a Millwright, is an Industrial Machinist & Welder. I guarantee you that Len's father, Larry (83 years young who has heated his home with a system similar to this for 50 years with zero incidents). and another local guy, Rod, will be looking at the system, too (Rod's heating system is radiant heat on both floors of his home).

Rose, the original set up to insure I am toasty (don't sleep well in a cold room, wish I could) utilizing our hot water tank and a circulated system (required valves, shut-off, etc...) is being set up first. The rest of it will follow


----------



## mightybooboo (Feb 10, 2004)

Good luck,nice project!


----------



## ChristieAcres (Apr 11, 2009)

Bearfootfarm, turns out my DH knows a lot more than I was aware of regarding doing all this (we had a longer conversation about what he has done in the past---only married 5 years and the guy is 53, so a LOT of experience in things we haven't discussed unless it was relevant). There are two separate systems going in place and the worst thing that can possibly happen is the one between the Water Heater and the Wood Stove could get too hot, blow the overflow, and we'd have steam/water (an exterior set up). Any leaks? Under our home, not a big deal. With proper set up, there is nothing for me to worry about. To further rest any concern I might have, the Engineer (Len's father) and the Boilermaker (Tom, a good friend), have been told how Len is doing this. Both gave him the thumbs up. Len smiled earlier and said, "My goal is to keep you warm, Honey, not to blow us both up." No one to hold the beer around here since neither of us drink alcohol, LOL. Hey, seriously, now, it is very important to get creative with your abilities all you are handy, but always check and double check what you are doing. The potential for mistakes in doing any of this can be lethal ones, so I do understand the concern. 

A side note here, this Thread was just to share an HT project, not to instruct or encourage any one to do the same thing. Thermal Syphon setups have been used since the early 1900s (our home isn't a 2-story home, so can't go that route). Larry, up the road, uses such a system. The wood stove is downstairs and since hot water rises (Thermal Syphon), there you go, and he has a circulating water-line that is sent to...you guessed it...a water heater. It has been set up properly and for many years, no problems ever. Larry is a retired Logger and 83 years young. Sharp as a tack, too. He is also in great shape & still working hard at his age. Len fixes Larry's heavy equipment. Tom, the retired Boilermaker, has set up similar systems with Radiators. 

Len did a great job designing and building our wood stove (highly efficient, with proper valves, etc...), also a great job on our Industrial Log Splitter that cuts 2nd growth hardwood rounds vertically or horizontally. Len, SR, 76 yrs young (retired Engineer), has our Splitter at his place, has cut up/split (5) logs averaging 80 to 100 feet long, with a few 2nd growth, and were seasoned a few years. He was very impressed with our Splitter. My FIL is not easily impressed. Me? I am analytical and have to gain understanding to feel comfortable with a lot of this. Safety is always my concern.


----------



## ChristieAcres (Apr 11, 2009)

Ross, good points/concerns! Since you raised those questions, I asked Len and he confirmed everything rated industrial and for the use he is intending. 

Agmantoo, when I have more information and can confirm the setup with what Len is using, it will be more clearly understood. The backups and extra care my proficient very capable guy is including in this system will backup any failure in any other part of the system. The Wood Stove has apparently been forgotten in how it works. I haven't explained that, the Valves, or the way he will be regulating that temp, etc... I'll get to that, though, when I have the rest of the information. The first thing I am going to explain, is the set up between the Hot Water Tank and our Radiator (he didn't just sand blast it, he repaired/restored/and fully tested it, and then painted it). When that project is finished, I will then go over the 2nd part of this project. Right now, Len is buried with work on custom railings; booked for two months. He is trying to complete this project in between all that work since the weather is getting colder.


----------



## ChristieAcres (Apr 11, 2009)

Below, you will see pics of the Radiator (snapped the picture while Len was in/out of our BR installing it) and the Thermostat for our BR. When this part of the project is finished, I'll post pics of the rest.








The temperature of the water circulating through this Radiator cannot exceed the maximum temperature of the Water Heater.








This is located on our master bedroom wall. No, I the temperature won't be set on 40 degrees... When he has completed the set up, we will be using our radiator this evening! I'll post how it works out. One never knows if a pipe connection might leak, etc...


----------



## Ross (May 9, 2002)

We're all just trying to be helpful with some constructive ideas, its not really critisim. Having a skilled welder doing the job is a very very good idea! Just don't want to see it all end in tears. Hot water is dangerous stuff and a part of my trade in HVAC. BTW heat does not rise. Hot air (and water more slowly) rises; "heat" moves in all directions towards cold.


----------



## ChristieAcres (Apr 11, 2009)

Hi Ross! I just corrected that to say, "hot water" which is what I meant to write as Larry's system is a closed Thermal Siphon one. I think it was good to get the ideas as it led me to ask Len a lot of questions and now have full understanding of what he is doing. On statements such as:


> Famous last words, often preceeded by "hold my beer"


- this was in response to my statement about being assured by Len and not having any concerns.

I think that did question Len's abilities to do the work not just safely but properly. Len takes this all very seriously and understands fully the potential dangers. He is a Journeyman Industrial Machinist & WABO Certified Welder with over 30 years of experience, but this doesn't illustrate the full scope of what he can do. Some of what he does around here, like building my Garden Cabin, our Chicken House, even the Garden Beds, putting up fences...? He will be the first one to tell you that he is NOT a Carpenter, LOL, but everything is built square and it would take a LOT to knock anything down. I am more into the finish work than he is, and will be completing that work myself. He is not an Auto Mechanic by trade, but he does all our auto maintenance/repairs, rebuilds motors, and has done body work on them, too. Len fixes our propane appliances (camper, trailer, etc...) and has done so properly. He does all of our plumbing, wiring, logging, wood cutting/splitting, and the list goes on. I was the most impressed when I came into the shop and saw the diesel motor all torn apart and pieces all over the place (he is NOT a Diesel Mechanic). There, he was, with glasses on, reading the repair manual for his Diesel Motor. I asked him, rather skeptical, if he had ever repaired a diesel motor before. "No, that is why I am reading this manual, Lori," he replied both amused and in sarcasm. Later the next day, he came in, called me out, and fired up the truck. Even though I like to just blindly trust Len, I don't feel comfortable with the projects unless I understand them LOL!


----------



## farminghandyman (Mar 4, 2005)

one can always use a fill reservoir and an small float to keep full and not make a closed loop system, and keep it vented, and depending on how it was plumbed in the reservoir would not even get hot,


----------



## Ross (May 9, 2002)

OK fair enough "That" I can "Fix" although I doubt Bearfoot meant any real harm.


----------



## ChristieAcres (Apr 11, 2009)

Ross, you are sweet, but nothing to worry about here (before someone does something that results in a surprise explosion that ends my life, I hope I get to be the one to drink something first LOL). I wanted to make sure I didn't goof and not make it clear, Len doesn't rely on his own know-how which is important when doing projects like this. That isn't to say someone may not have a better idea or modification idea to what he is currently doing. If done wrong, this is dangerous! It wouldn't surprise me if Len's father doesn't think up a slick way to improve the whole set up.


----------



## haypoint (Oct 4, 2006)

I've had a hotwater convection furnace with a radiator in each room. I understand how convection works.
I've had a wood cook stove with a water casting in the firebox plumbed to a tank to store the hot water. 

Both worked great, except......

I think your bedroom radiator will need more hot water. I think the surface area he's going to put in the stove will be too small. Water coils can make a fair amount of domestic hot water, but a radiator really needs a lot of hot water. 

Different topic: I have a friend that wrapped his castiron stove with a hundred feet of copper pipe, wrapped against the outside of the fire box, inside the heat shield. 

He was able to get a quart of hot water any time he wanted. Fill the washer in about 3 hours flat. Takes more time/fuel to raise the temp of water than we think.


----------



## ChristieAcres (Apr 11, 2009)

haypoint- thanks for your concern, however, what you described is nothing like what we have. The Wood Stove Len designed and built, is a LARGE highly efficient one. The Heat Exchange he has also designed to install with the system he is building next. It will absolutely be sufficient to provide all the hot water we need (calculations were already made). Now the Heat Exchange pipe will drop down, run through an insulated pipe directly to the Hot Water Tank, which is then separately connected to the pipe leading to the Radiator. I am skipping going into all the pieces & parts at the moment. Larry's system is similar to ours in a few ways, but his Wood Stove is *smaller* and heats the entire *two story home* and provides all the hot water 4 adults can use! Both our setup and Larry's are different from the one you described. Larry has seen our Wood Stove and was rather impressed with it. I spoke to Len about our Wood Stove and hot water output. He patiently explained what we could expect from our Wood Stove. Then, he said, "If you are receiving some skepticism, that is understandable as none of them have my Wood Stove. They can only compare what they have experienced first-hand." Since Len has yet to build the 2nd system, I will address the 1st system now:

:dance: First System is DONE!!!:dance: The entire setup between the Water Heater and our bedroom Radiator is complete. 

THE TEST: Len turned up the Thermostat, ran the Radiator for (5) minutes and our bedroom temperature went from the 50s, to 70 degrees! Since it wasn't that cold out, this wasn't a big deal. Now, when it gets cold, it will take longer for the Radiator to heat up, as it will be cold to begin with. There are no leaks, and no issues with his project. Tomorrow, he will be insulating the pipes for obvious reasons. Now, important to note there that the Radiator is also bigger than an average size you normally see in a bedroom. I have been in homes with them and they were usually 2/3 the size of the one we have. Also, we are only talking about 1 Radiator. It was completely unnecessary to put a Radiator in any other room. *Our Wood Stove heats the entire 1,600 sq feet of our home* (heatilator helps---built in by Len). The only cool room is our bedroom on the other end of our home. The reason why we went with this system is that we have a self-sustainable source of firewood (5 acres of forest we own). We don't have to really thin it as just cutting up the trees the wind knocks down takes care of what we use. 

I'll post some more pics, when I can find the time over the next few days. These will show the first System & I will describe the parts used.

When the next System gets done, I will post it  with all the details & pics.


----------



## ChristieAcres (Apr 11, 2009)

haypoint, I was about to post something and re-read what you wrote. The Heat Exchange will be installed *inside* the Wood Stove (which is bigger than it appears in the pictures). When we use the Wood Stove, our entire home (except that back bedroom) gets 80 degrees real fast (even with low freezing temps outside). I don't know if that helps envision anything. 

I was thinking about this, as I do about everything, LOL, and I don't think the issue will be one Radiator in most homes (with our situation), it would be the amount of hot water produced. Len did confirm it would be up for the job. The Radiator won't have to be used except for at night, since that room does receive air flow from the rest of our home. Of course, that is when I am not using the washer, no showers/baths, etc...

I figure it will take Len a week or possibly two to finish the next system (or Phase 2). I'll cover that here on this thread, also.


----------



## Ross (May 9, 2002)

Looking forward t pictures. What was his delta T for the experiment? His PSI and FPM would be interesting too. From 50's to 70 in 5 minutes seems apretty quick! Has he made any provisions for thermal shock?


----------



## haypoint (Oct 4, 2006)

OK, the heat exchange is large. The hot water rises from the heat exchange ( or is there a pump for that too?) to the water heater. There is a pump and plumbing that takes the water from the water heater and circulates it to the radiator in your bedroom. The thermostat controls the pump.

How is your domestic hot water seperated from the bedroom radiator? 

Am I understanding that in addition to the cold water intake and hot water pipe that goes to your hot water facet, you have extra pipes hooked to your domestic water heater, an in and an out from the wood stove's heat exchange, an in and out to the radiator. Is this correct or is there a separation of your drinking water and radiator water? Are we talking about a single water heater?

When the woodstove heat exchanger continues to heat water and the heated water continues to rise (or pump continues to circulate it) into the water heater tank, what do you do when it reaches the boiling point? I understand that the pressure valve will blow open, but is there a system designed to prevent this?

I'm not being critical. I just want to better understand this system.


----------



## ChristieAcres (Apr 11, 2009)

Ross- I will cover that with Len when he is available. He wakes up with his pants on fire, so to speak, and goes straight to work. Right now, juggling jobs. The Radiator wasn't cold, but already had water in it. We just had to wait until the Water Heater had recovered to test it last evening. I would expect that since the water in the Radiator wasn't cold, the room not that cold, that it was a shorter time for the room to heat, based on those factors, too. I could touch it, but not keep my hand on it (too hot). The Water Heater will regulate the temperature of the water circulating through that closed system, based on its maximum temperature. I'll post that info, too.

haypoint, don't think your critical, just interested with legitimate concerns. This will help me insure I give the right info, too.

Our current setup is between a Propane Water Heater and one Radiator. Right now, Propane heats the water to a set degree and runs through a separate pipe straight to the Radiator (Len installed There is a Thermostat in our bedroom for the Radiator. Using the Propane to heat the water is temporary. This set up worked beautifully. Now for what WILL happen, next  

The Wood Stove itself is large. The Heat Exchange hasn't been built, yet. That is the next System Len will build. He will install the Heat Exchange inside the Wood Stove, run the hot water down through the floor, insulated pipe, and this hot water will enter the Hot Water Heater. Yes, it will be a closed system, have all the safety features on it, with backup (details to follow). There is an air intake valve on our Wood Stove, which draws its air from beneath the floor. Len had put pipes running through the Wood Stove, and there is an airtight space inside the left of the Wood Stove. Inside this airspace, the pipes will be installed. Those details will follow when my busy DH gets back on the project. The concern about the Water Heater. The water entering that tank will be a set temperature range. Len has confirmed that he will installing what is necessary to keep the temperature from exceeding what would blow the Pressure Valve. Now, what he confirmed is that the worst thing that could happen, with all he will have in place, is that complete *failure of everything*? The Pressure Valve would blow open. So, he has given careful consideration from how hot the Wood Stove will get, how much intake is required, and there will be gauges, valves, etc... I just don't know all the parts until he starts building it. 

For safety, which is most important, I won't be posting how & describe the next system in any great detail until after he has built and completely tested it.


----------



## Ross (May 9, 2002)

I know it sounds a little critical now and then but I just gotta ask. Was that a new rad meant for potable water? If not do not drink the hot water from your proane fired tank! Some boilers used toxic additives to prevent rust out. Some rads will leach out minerals into fresh water (and will rust out quickly) so it really has to be clean new and meant for potable water! Same goes for the pump. A boiler circ pump is cast a potable water one is stainless or bronze. You know we don't need minute by minute updates and I wouldn't doubt he's gonna have to re-engineer a few things. Good thinking on waiting until it works! PS You know we're here with info to help out too.


----------



## ChristieAcres (Apr 11, 2009)

Ross, thank you so much for your concern. No, we never drink hot water that comes through our faucets. I don't mind answering questions, but that non-stop man is going non-stop as I type...LOL. He is insulating the pipes shortly, and then back on his jobs. Now he is up to four railing jobs, one is a large one for an incredible view home, and another job for something else came in this morning (capping off and closing up gaps on a wood stove for a lady converting to a propane stove). Some allergy issue for the poor gal. I appreciate the continued input and will be back on later to answer some questions about the current setup (when I can get some air-time...LOL).


----------



## ChristieAcres (Apr 11, 2009)

It has now been two days and the Radiator is working great! No problems at all.

I told Len that I was very pleased the set up worked so well. He said, "Of course it does, because I DID IT. It wasn't easy climbing around under there, either." Of course, I'll skip some of the complaining...turns out the crawlspace term itself is an understatement under our home. He had to squeeze himself through some of the areas to do this. He did tell me I would be very happy when I saw how his entire system would work, but wasn't looking forward to going back under there. 

Len spent the entire day working on bids, so I still didn't get to go over those questions, but intend to for the answers. Then, I'll post more pics & details.


----------



## haypoint (Oct 4, 2006)

Your first step is like a system I've seen locally. The owner/builder liked the even heat you get from a hot water boiler/radiator setup. He priced hot water boilers, checked out the permits needed, trrouble getting it permitted if you do it yourself, etc.

He just put in two gas water heaters and hooked them up just like it was a boiler. There are not any extra inspections, permits, etc for a water heater. Plus they are a fraction of the cost of a boiler. The newer water heaters have a high efficiency, lose very littly of the heat produced.

I think his original plan was for a home built wood fired boiler failed due to insurance issues.


----------



## ChristieAcres (Apr 11, 2009)

Yes, we have an efficient newer Propane Water Heater. With only one Radiator, it has worked beautifully. Permitting? Oh, yes, always the headache, but fortunately some HTer's don't have to worry about that. For them, safety & efficiency are the two most important issues. If insurance comes in, that is also a consideration. These are good points to bring up, too- thanks Haypoint! 

Phase2- when Len can find the time, he will be carefully planning, based on every single factor, how to best construct the Heat Exchange. He has already made numerous calculations. Since we have a big highly efficient Wood Stove, he can actually install a rather sizable Heat Exchange. When he did the original design, he factored in the future installation. This wasn't an afterthought, fortunately.

Locally, exterior boilers/heating systems are being used and are licensed/permitted/approved. As far as I know, these are required to be approved, not home-built boilers. There are always exceptions based on licensing/certifications. For example, if DH wants to build an outdoor Boiler System, he would have to do the research to duplicate a currently licensed set-up. It could be required he get a special license. Then, he would have to meet that requirement.

A side note here. With over 25 years of Industrial Welding experience, Len was required to get WABO Certified by WA State to do structural welding. He has kept up that certification for 7 years now. Now it doesn't matter how good of a Welder you are here, in WA State. If you build brackets used for structural support, you have to be WABO Certified. It is hard to pass those tests, too. However, here he is allowed to do electrical and plumbing work on our own home, and just has to pass inspections.


----------



## ChristieAcres (Apr 11, 2009)

I just lit a fire in our wood stove, came on for a few minutes before I go out to feed the chickens, rabbits, and gather eggs (do that twice/day)... 

Rose, thanks. It was sort of interesting how it all happened, too. Len was over at a buddy's house and was given that old radiator (exterior was rusty). I should have taken before & after shots. As I wrote above, he tested it/repaired it/sandblasted & painted it. As he is working on the Radiator, he tells me what it is for and what he will do with it. This happens sometimes  The next surprise came when he finished painting it and was talking about what he was going to do next. Yes, having work like this done can be cost-prohibitive and I don't take that for granted, trust me.


----------



## ChristieAcres (Apr 11, 2009)

It has been fifteen days and the Radiator system is efficient, no leaks, and no problems. DH is too busy to work on any more of this.


----------



## Ross (May 9, 2002)

Well so long as its running off the gas water heater and you're not drinking the water you'll have a safe effective way of heating an awkward room (heating wise)


----------



## ChristieAcres (Apr 11, 2009)

I am pleased right now and the rest of DH's project can wait. Too many other pans on the fire...


----------



## ChristieAcres (Apr 11, 2009)

It has been a full month since the Radiator was set up and happy to report no problems with it at all. DH was especially pleased there were no leaks as crawling around under there is no fun. 

Pleased to report DH has been working steadily, and hard to take one day a week to work on the home projects. Our porch is almost done and then the Greenhouse is next (this 1st one is a kit, so faster project). I think he will then focus on Phase2.


----------



## ChristieAcres (Apr 11, 2009)

Next week, Phase2 begins. It will probably take DH a week to set up the system. Once the system is complete, I will post it here with Pics.


----------



## clovis (May 13, 2002)

LorieChristie,

Thanks for the updates!!!!! What I really appreciate is the detail that you have shared with us. I have learned alot!!!!!

Please keep us posted!!!!!!!!


----------



## ChristieAcres (Apr 11, 2009)

Clovis- Glad it has been interesting  Paying work & the holidays got in the way of Phase2... DH is finishing up the latest job and then may have the time to devote to this project. The other projects include the last finishing touches on my porch (flooring, primarily) & setting up my greenhouse. The latter project is being installed on a very solid foundation (ground currently frozen...). That may take a backseat until the ground can be worked.

See the article in the January/February, 2010, Countryside edition, pg 37, entitled, "Free Hot Water From Your Wood Cookstove." This also includes using a Wood Stove. You will see a diagram very similar to the system DH is building on pg 38. His will have an extra pressure relief valve and also a temperature relief gauge. Of course, I will post the information & pictures when he finishes/tests it thoroughly.

Did anyone else read this article? If so, what did you think?


----------



## stully (Sep 5, 2009)

Not to get off topic, but that wood stove is beautiful. I would pay good money for a set of plans for that thing.


----------



## ChristieAcres (Apr 11, 2009)

> stully Not to get off topic, but that wood stove is beautiful. I would pay good money for a set of plans for that thing.


Thanks for that compliment & it put a grin on DH's face! I had my doubts when I saw it coming together...resembled a spaceship at first LOL! His goal was to build a highly efficient wood stove (it is), but also wanted me to like the looks of it. What appears to be stainless steel is actually steel that has been nickel plated (DH did that for me). There are no plans as DH built/modified it as he went. He doesn't draw his projects, for some reason. If you are interested in more info, I can send you pictures with more detail and dimensions. DH doesn't care if anyone copies it, but liability prevents him from offering plans for wood stoves. He has been asked locally to build a few, but can't yet... We have discussed him getting some designs UL listed and HUD approved, but that is another process we haven't had time to pursue. 

The wood stove was built with a sealed airtight chamber (inside the left of it). There are seven heavy pipes installed leading from that, inside the firebox (top and upper back of it). Air is pumped via the left leg into this sealed chamber and out through those pipes (exiting around the top/back of the circular door on the right side). The right leg provides the air intake & those levers you see adjust that intake (from under the floor). Maximum firewood length is 24 inches long. I prefer using slightly shorter (22 inches).

On the process going on, it has been very interesting to me. I am very busy, but have taken more time to gain understanding of Phase2 as he is building it. He left a short while ago for Tacoma to drop off scrap steel and pick up the stainless steel pipe he needs in order to build the heat exchange unit to install inside our wood stove. With a lull in business, he is taking advantage of that time to complete this project. 

We have discussed the work week M-F with S for home projects and Sunday off. Getting him to shut down and rest is a challenge!


----------



## ChristieAcres (Apr 11, 2009)

For the folks following this thread & anyone else who may be interested, here is the booklet we ordered from Lehman's with the internet link:










Lehman's sells this for $9.95:

http://www.lehmans.com/store/catalog?Args=


----------



## stully (Sep 5, 2009)

I would love to see some dimensions and photos. I am merely a union ironworker and as your husband knows not quite as precise as a machinist, but i might be able to give it a shot.


----------



## ChristieAcres (Apr 11, 2009)

I have updated my calendar tomorrow to include photographing & measure the wood stove. I'll PM you.


----------



## ChristieAcres (Apr 11, 2009)

I didn't get everything done, but did get out to the Shop to take a few pics:










Here you see the Baleigh die that came with the Bender. DH needed to bend the tubing for the heat exchange, so he built a smaller die to fit that size (saved us $300). See next two pics:










Here, you can see the die being built. It began as a solid piece of steel.










Here it is, almost completed.


----------



## Ross (May 9, 2002)

Wow more than a little crafty ain't he!!


----------



## Ross (May 9, 2002)

He couldn't mill a very heavy walled auger in a food grade SS could he? Kinda like one in a food/meat grinder.


----------



## ChristieAcres (Apr 11, 2009)

> Ross Wow more than a little crafty ain't he!!


I never know what he is going to do next That keeps things interesting around here. Len does a lot of welding & steel fabrication for paying jobs. His preference is machine work. With our tightening budget, Len knows he will have to build what we can't afford to buy. 



> Ross He couldn't mill a very heavy walled auger in a food grade SS could he? Kinda like one in a food/meat grinder.


When he surfaces today, I'll ask him. Back to edit rather than re-post. He said it would be very time consuming with his equipment & wasn't set up to build augers & hadn't milled any before.


----------



## Ross (May 9, 2002)

OK no problem, I'm not even sure of the specs.


----------



## ChristieAcres (Apr 11, 2009)

> Ross OK no problem, I'm not even sure of the specs.


Our friends invited us over for dinner. Afterward, one of the topics was "how to build an auger." I got told why making any size screws (threading) was different. OK:banana02:

UPDATE- Len made the Heat Exchange (out of Stainless Steel using the Die he just made), installed that, modified the stove, installed in/out pipes with temperatures gauges on each one, and estimates Tuesday is our completion day. I'll post pics today of what the wood stove looks like now. 

As soon as it is up/running and fully tested, I'll then take pictures of the system & post them.


----------



## ChristieAcres (Apr 11, 2009)

UPDATE- Ahead of schedule, Phase2 complete:clap:. Every part of the system was checked before Len built the fire in the wood stove (after I cleaned it- my job to help out). Now, we await the results & are testing it out. I am happy to report there have been no explosions...:bouncy: 

Serious note here- This is a potentially life-threatening setup if not done CORRECTLY! There are differing opinions about that, which is why it is critical to read the booklet I posted in this thread, consult with knowledgeable people you trust to review your system, and be open to hiring out some of the work to be done. The risk is too great for a design error or faulty set up. 

When our system is working to Len's satisfaction, I will post the pictures and also give more information:typomat:


----------



## ChristieAcres (Apr 11, 2009)

So far, so good. Tomorrow, the pipes are being insulated and a few connections tightened. Len wanted to run the system long enough to be able to find any possible leaks or issues before he insulated the copper pipes. I am looking forward to our first test when Len calls it DONE.


----------



## ChristieAcres (Apr 11, 2009)

Pipes are insulated and a few modifications being done. We have decided to move our water heater, but that is another project for a different day. With the current setup, our wood stove provides plenty of heated water for our consumption (including that radiator). After DH is done, we will begin the testing.


----------



## ChristieAcres (Apr 11, 2009)

Converted Wood Stove (light will be installed behind the stove):


----------



## ChristieAcres (Apr 11, 2009)

So far, though our temps aren't that cold right now here...the wood stove is heating plenty of water. We have a large soaker tub that uses a lot of hot water to fill...normally there is very little hot water left after the fill. This time, we had more than enough hot water. The recovery was excellent, too. DH has mentioned a few changes he would like to make.


----------



## Ross (May 9, 2002)

So it's plumbed in series with your water heater, that's good. Whats the aquastat control (looks like) on the pedistal? You get a better feel for the size of he stove in these pictures with the axe and fire wood in the background.


----------



## ChristieAcres (Apr 11, 2009)

That is a Honeywell Thermostat Control (I think that is what Len called it). If you look at one end of the wood stove, you can see it is 8-sided. It is 19" in diameter, which also is the depth, and it is 29" wide. The size wood we put in it can be up to 24" long. It is considered a large wood stove by most standards. We certainly wouldn't need a bigger one as this is more than sufficient to heat our home & also heat all the hot water we need. We are still testing it, so will post the results eventually


----------



## ChristieAcres (Apr 11, 2009)

48 hours of operation and only minor adjustments needed. Yesterday it was 50F outside. This setup is making enough hot water to run laundry, run the dishwasher, fill our large soaker tub, and have plenty left over. DH estimated no matter how cold it is outside, the setup makes much more hot water than we can use. After a full week of use, I will then take the rest of the pictures & post more information about the setup.


----------



## ChristieAcres (Apr 11, 2009)

Our wood stove is heating water, heating our home, drying out clothes, and is heating our dinner (homemade beef stew)! You can see the red light below (indicator for the water pump- ON). The thermostats on the left (2 of them)- 1 indicates incoming water temp to heat exchange unit (inside of firebox), 2nd one indicates water temp of outgoing water temp being sent through the insulated 80 foot long pipe to our water heater. Works great & I did two loads of laundry, ran the dishwasher twice, and ran a full soaker bath full of very hot water. There is still enough for our bedroom's radiator tonight! The propane has been off for almost three days.

*****Here, I figured I'd add a comment about the water pump which you can't afford to be without when you have a hot fire going! We have a propane generator wired in with switch relay, so within seconds of a power outage, we have power. Yes, pressure relief valves are a backup, but I wouldn't feel comfortable without a power backup of some kind!*****


----------



## woodsy (Oct 13, 2008)

Nice custom wood stove set-up and home you have !
Where do I put my order in for that custom wood stove ?
Your hubby is quite the jack of all trades.
Using the wood stove to heat your water is great use of what would be some unused energy.
Welcome aboard !


----------



## ChristieAcres (Apr 11, 2009)

Thank you! I will pass on the compliments  Len has been considering getting a few designs UL listed and building them. He can't compete with the mass produced ones in price, though. His market will be a niche here- people wanted them built to order with the options they want. There are some other projects he is considering, too. It is fun to see all the stuff he builds around here working to decrease our energy bills!


----------



## Guest (Jan 18, 2010)

A few years ago I heated with wood & was very interested in a system similar to yours . I am asking questions just to satisfy my own curiosity . I saw the temperature gauges on the pipes at the stove . What is the average temperature of the water entering the stove & what is the temperature of the water exiting the stove ? From what I have read , when you have a fire in the stove the water is circulating through the stove & water heater so you have a tank of hot water all the time . This would mean that most of the time the water entering the stove is already hot & the stove is just keeping it hot . Have you ever ran enough hot water so that the water entering the stove is actually cold & if so what is the temperature rise between entering & exit ? When the stove is heating & you're not using any hot water how hot does the water in the system get ? Has it ever got hot enough to vent out through a temperature/pressure relief valve ? Did you install an expansion tank in the system ? Did you install anything in the system to prevent the water from getting too hot ? There are water mixing valves that could be plumbed into the system that would allow cold water to be injected into the system if the water temperature exceeded the limits of what the temperature/pressure relief valves will hold . One more question , how did you determine how far the t/p relief valves could safely be installed from the stove ? Thanks


----------



## ChristieAcres (Apr 11, 2009)

Hi WV Hillbilly! Nice to hear from you. Len first talked about the idea, designed our set up to work with the wood stove he designed/built for us last year. He then ordered a book:

The title of the book, "Hot Water From Your Wood Stove," sold by Lehman's for $9.95

http://www.lehmans.com/store/catalog?Args=

For those interested in doing the same, I highly recommend anyone/everyone order and read the above booklet. Our system was set up using every single recommendation with a few differences which do not alter performance and never safety. 

Since Len is still making changes to our system, based on performance, his own testing, function, and also how much wood is needed? I will give you a description of how it works which will answer most of your questions. When we are happy with the system and Len gives his thumbs up that it is DONE, I will give more details. 

First up, the water is pumped from the bottom of the hot water tank to one pipe (incoming w/thermostat on it), then through the heat exchange, then out through the 2nd pipe (w/thermostat). Our hot water tank is OFF and it is not needed at all. Our temps have been 30s, 40s & low 50s. We get as much hot water as we can possibly use. Len is modifying it to make it more efficient and use 50% of the wood it does to accomplish that. When he is done, and we know it works safely, I will explain that.

Now, when the water reaches a certain temperature (Len has been changing this temp), the pump turns ON. When it drops to a certain temperature (Len has been changing this temp, too), the pump turns OFF. So, you do not have the water constantly circulating, as it is controlled by a thermostat switch (seen in the picture & pump ON is shown when red light turns on. This can also be manually changed (turned on/off). The key about this system is monitoring it. There are (3) pressure relief valves. It has only gotten hot enough once to blow them. How you prevent this is to be familiar with how hot a fire to burn (adjustable intake valve on our setup). If you don't burn it too hot, you don't have a problem. If I see it is getting too hot, I lower the air intake or shut it off & then go start the dishwasher. We are using only our hot water tank (no additional expansion tank). I will pass on your comment about water mixing valves.


----------



## Ross (May 9, 2002)

You could put a thermostatically controlled damper on the stove. If you're throttling back the stove you could add another water tank to both increase your stored hot water and extend your heating capacity. (nice if you're delayed coming home and the fire is out) A thermostatically controled pump is OK but it could be short cycling as the heat exchanger rises and falls in tmep. This could lead to cracking and leaks. Len could add a ball valve or a globe valve to slow the water down which would extend the run time of the pump and raise water temp over -all but it also softens the thermal shock the system might experience. It needs to be a circ pump though. Any idea what the differential is on the control? It doesn't look settable which is a shame. I'm also curious if there's an air bleeder in the system somewhere.


----------



## ChristieAcres (Apr 11, 2009)

If the fire dies down, the temp drops and the sensor shut off the pump, so the water stops circulating. There is a control for slowing down the water in place. The thermostat control can be set, so not sure about what you mean by differential. A few things you wrote, I am unsure about. I'll copy your post & show it to Len to get his take. He is still making changes to our setup, too.


----------



## ChristieAcres (Apr 11, 2009)

Wood stove has gone through more modification. Len has been hard at it most of the day. He told me it would be more efficient. I hope he is happy with it, after this.


----------



## ChristieAcres (Apr 11, 2009)

The latest modification is complete. This involved drilling new holds on the left side, re-doing all the pipes, and moving the heat exchange to the bottom of the firebox. The flow of water was adjusted until there was a 10 degree rise in the water (all that is needed with our current temps). I didn't time how long it took to get the water up to 140F, but will eventually. Have my daughter visiting me from CO and am really enjoying time with her!


----------



## Ross (May 9, 2002)

The differential is just the difference in the temperature where the pump turns on and where it shuts off. No biggy it's probably 10 degrees f. So what do the inside coils look like? Single loop of steel, or multiple passes of copper tubing or?


----------



## ChristieAcres (Apr 11, 2009)

Okay, got that. There is a large single loop inside, now at the bottom of the firebox, made of stainless steel. You can see the pipes attached going down through the floor are also stainless steel. Under the floor, they are connected to insulated copper pipes (stainless would have been cost prohibitive spanning the 80 feet). Since Len is constantly improving what he builds, I wouldn't be surprised if he makes a few more changes. I had asked if he would have a multiple pass heat exchange, but he told me that it was unnecessary due to the size of our wood stove. He may change his mind, who knows. 

We could have moved the water heater, but that would have required more work than Len wanted to do (would have required a small exterior room built out back). Eventually, we will move the water heater. 

Just checked it, and there was a 20 degree difference between the incoming/outgoing water temperature. That was quite an improvement over what it was before, with the heat exchange in the upper area of the firebox.


----------



## ChristieAcres (Apr 11, 2009)

We had a discussion over modifying our wood stove and the result was that DH approved of my suggestions. He added another heat exchange connected in succession (made of stainless steel). Both are long & u-shaped. He added a connection between the heat exchanges on the left exterior of the wood stove. Our goal with this modification was to increase the efficiency and decrease the amount of wood we were burning. 

I'll try to add a picture on here tonight.


----------



## agmantoo (May 23, 2003)

lorichristie 

I have not asked because of the difficulty of addressing the subtle designs but I have been wanting to know what design features your husband included in the stove for efficient use of the wood? I am interested in draft control, baffles, heat retention, reintroduction after initial burn of fresh air, etc. Thanks


----------



## ChristieAcres (Apr 11, 2009)

agmantoo- Best I can do, without the DH here, is to just describe how it works & see if that answers your questions.

You see two legs underneath the wood stove. The one on the right provide air from under the floor into the interior front of the fire box (a pipe runs across with multiple holes). There is a valve with levers (you can see those at the base of this leg). They control the baffle (I think that is what it is called). The air is heated and does exit through the pipe straight up. The left leg provides air that is pumped up into a hollow airt-tight chamber (left interior of the stove). If you take off the plate on the left of the wood stove, you will see the inside of the air chamber. You will also see there are 7 pipes (also air-tight) that were installed inside the firebox (up against the top and back of the stove). When the blower is turned on, the air goes up through the left leg, into the air-tight chamber, and out through those 7 pipes. We keep 2 or 3 tea kettles on top of the stove (for tea, whatever), now have 2 heat exchanges inside the firebox, and have the drying rack off to the side and above where the heated air exits. The incoming and outgoing pipes (you see stainless steel pipes on the left) both have thermostats and separate pressure relief valves (under the floor). There is another one on the hot water tank. The water pressure is adjusted by DH to best utilize the wood stoves' heating ability. When we get a full tank of hot water, we run the dishwasher, do a load of laundry, or run a bath. We did notice that even filling a large soaker tub, we still had plenty of hot water to keep it hot. Before, with one heat exchange, the tub could be filled, but the water wasn't heated fast enough for warm-ups. 

This wood stove has now done away with the clothes dryer, water heater, propane furnace, and I can cook in it, too. One way the efficiency was increased, besides the blower, is that installing 2 heat exchanges, hooked in succession, provides a lot of hot water, and we burn less wood to do so. The main issue we had, when there was one heat exchange, was that it was like being in AZ in our living room (even I, with low blood pressure, got too HOT). Now, we can comfortably heat our home while producing more than enough hot water. The recovery is excellent, too. We have a radiator in our master bedroom, which we don't need to use right now (not that cold, in the 40s at night usually). The air flow in our home keeps that room comfortable until it dips in the 30s, then we have to use the radiator. We can have our wood stove on low, keep the pump circulating, and use that water at night for the radiator (the water doesn't have to be that hot going through it). The thermostat control set up worked great, too. If you set it at 65F, you get the right temp. I don't know how all that works, but DH set it up, too.

I took a full-time day job two weeks ago, while DH still works here in his shop. That means, he tends the wood stove as needed. We seldom let it go out. Lately, with warmer weather (El Nino---PNW here), we just turn the wood stove way down at night. The fires are burned hot a few times/day and that helps allay concern about creosote build-up. We just turn it down when we are both gone, so it isn't usually without a fire going. Now, we do clean it out when needed, so let the fire go out then. Not long ago, a friend gave us some very high end expensive smoke/fire/carbon monoxide & heat detectors. So, safety has been a big priority around here!


----------



## Ross (May 9, 2002)

I just wanted to thank you Lori, for taking the time to share this project with us!! I don't think I've ever read such a thorough description over such a period of time. Its really great you've followed up questions so well! You might think about writing it up for Countryside Magazine some day..... if Len ever gets it finished up to his liking!!  Please pass on my congrats to him and again thank you for sharing it with us!


----------



## Ross (May 9, 2002)

I just wanted to thank you Lori, for taking the time to share this project with us!! I don't think I've ever read such a thorough description over such a period of time. Its really great you've followed up questions so well! You might think about writing it up for Countryside Magazine some day..... if Len ever gets it finished up to his liking!!  Please pass on my congrats to him and again thank you for sharing it with us!


----------



## agmantoo (May 23, 2003)

lorichristie 
Thanks for the breakdown on how the inlet air for combustion enters the stove and how the heated air for the home heat is processed and exits. I realize your husband spent a lot of time in planning as well as building the stove.

When your husband is home and the circumstances permit, I am still interested if he included any baffles or secondary draft air to aid in the efficient burning of the fire wood? How do you attempt to control the burn rate or temperature of the stove?
Do you have a problem of the glass sooting over?

Thanks


----------



## ChristieAcres (Apr 11, 2009)

agmantoo- The burn rate is controlled by those levers on the right leg (down near the base). 1 level opens it, while the other locks it in place. Not sure if that plate inside the leg is called a baffle. What it does is rotate open to closed and the locking level adjusts it in any position. So this completely controls the airflow going in and that in turn controls the burn rate. Hopefully, that made sense. Soot on the window? Yes, if we turn it down. That is taken care of with a wet paper towel, dipped in ash, and comes right off. Often, a hot fire burns it off. I figured out how to avoid that completely, but, well the wood stove has already been built. How that could have been avoided is how the firebox is made inside. The air does flow up against the glass, but the fire isn't tipped back far enough. I was looking at wood stoves and saw how the difference in the inflow coupled with the tilt made a difference in any soot build-up. If this didn't quite answer your questions, please let me know. I'll ask DH when he gets home (at the end of that dozer job- cutting it apart for scrap w/probably 2 loads to go).


----------



## ChristieAcres (Apr 11, 2009)

> Ross- I just wanted to thank you Lori, for taking the time to share this project with us!! I don't think I've ever read such a thorough description over such a period of time. Its really great you've followed up questions so well! You might think about writing it up for Countryside Magazine some day..... if Len ever gets it finished up to his liking!! Please pass on my congrats to him and again thank you for sharing it with us!


Thank you Ross  What a nice compliment and your welcome.


----------



## ChristieAcres (Apr 11, 2009)

Here are the pics, showing the extra pipe correcting the heat exchanges (2 of them inside the firebox---on bottom and upper).


----------



## Ross (May 9, 2002)

It'd be nice to see a sheet metal shroud to hide the plumbing. Terrific pictures thanks! Gotta get Len to post here next!


----------



## ChristieAcres (Apr 11, 2009)

Len could easily hide the plumbing, but we like it exposed  Ol' Len is a handy guy who does a lot, but has a self-declared "allergy" to computers & barely tolerates phones. That is where I come in, so it works out just fine. Thanks for the compliment on the pics. The challenge was taking the 2nd to last picture as the lighting was poor and flash just too stark- a bit blurry. I don't have a high end digital camera, yet.


----------



## Ross (May 9, 2002)

Surely a good camera would be a tool you need for realestate........????????? I guess Len is entitled to keep his distance but I'm pretty sure he'd find that we're all pretty much the same as him here! He'd be welcome to join in any time but I respect his decision too.


----------



## ChristieAcres (Apr 11, 2009)

Ross- I do have a good camera, but the only shot it doesn't do well are interior night shots. It is a 12.1 mp. When I say, "high end," I am referring to a MUCH better camera  Here is a shot with the same camera:










On 'Ol Len? He is non-stop on his projects, whether they be for us or paying jobs. I thought I won last night, when I convinced him to work on paying jobs M-F, assigning Sat for home projects. I get no where trying to get him to stop working 12+ days. As it is, I work 60 hours/week between both of my jobs. At least mine aren't involving serious physical labor, but just enough to keep me fit. Len hardly sits down except to eat or read, doesn't type, and I couldn't even get him to even look at the cool stuff you guys all write about on here. Regardless, I'll keep at it, as I can. I think he could gain and others could gain from him, too. It amazes me what a great pool of knowledge is on here!


----------



## ChristieAcres (Apr 11, 2009)

Tonight, we decided to see how long the wood stove would take to reheat some leftovers (using the top of it). In just over (5) minutes, our foil wrapped leftovers were nice & hot! Now that was a bit faster than either of us expected. We both agreed to start using the wood stove with our cast iron cookware, and stop using our propane stove & 2 convection ovens (except for cooking bread...). The next project is a passive solar system to heat our water in the summer. We'll use the line in the summer for drying clothing. Then, of course, back to using our propane stove & convection oven.


----------



## ChristieAcres (Apr 11, 2009)

Bumped by request


----------



## Johnny Dolittle (Nov 25, 2007)

Wow .... glad I discovered this thread and I plan to read through it more carefully.

The die making was impressive..... I did not know you could lay the head of a Bridgeport Mill down the way your DH did .... thought it would take a special adapter but I have the same mill and so I looked mine over and realized no adapter was used.

Your husband is quite a machinist also !!!!

Thanks for the good pictures !!


----------



## justin_time (Dec 2, 2012)

lorichristie said:


> This wood stove has now done away with the clothes dryer, water heater, propane furnace, and I can cook in it,


First I have to say WHAT IS WRONG WITH THIS BOARD!, WHY DOES A PERSON HAVE TO SEARCH FOR THIS! I can trip over useless, fanciful, imaginary heating info ( you mod's know exactly what I mean) thats even encouraged, and this I have to search for!!!!:flame:

Lori, there should be a best thread ever award. While it likely exceeds my abitities to construct, Maybe too involved for many others as well, it is a great example of what a person can do, and do for themself.
As a fellow wood burner I am in awe....
In the quote I highlighted above, while reading it, I had a ipifany,maybe two, I have been rolling around the problem of not having the power for a drier(ofgrid), and ofcourse I can hang dry, but as you know sometimes having a drier to use is real handy, due to time or material, well in reading your sentance I figured out how- a water to air heat exchanger. Just as you heat your back bedroom with a radiator. I have a couple I tore out of some junked Miller coolmate tig torch coolers (your hubby will know the type) years ago. They are the perfect size to fit in a drier, and plumb to the stove. Thank you:thumb:!

I dont know why I didnt think of it before.


----------



## ChristieAcres (Apr 11, 2009)

Johnny Dolittle said:


> Wow .... glad I discovered this thread and I plan to read through it more carefully.
> 
> The die making was impressive..... I did not know you could lay the head of a Bridgeport Mill down the way your DH did .... thought it would take a special adapter but I have the same mill and so I looked mine over and realized no adapter was used.
> 
> ...


Thanks for the compliments! 

I will pass on that comment for my DH  He is an "old school" Industrial Mechanic/Machinist/Welder (Certified as WABO, requirement for structural welding). He never fails to surprise me with what he can do. Since he sustained a severe brain injury in 1995, he cannot learn the skills he would need for computerized equipment. His other issues require he work out of his own shop, organize it himself, maintaining his own "order," so he can find everything. 

You must be a very handy guy yourself! What kind of work do you do?


----------



## ChristieAcres (Apr 11, 2009)

justin_time said:


> First I have to say WHAT IS WRONG WITH THIS BOARD!, WHY DOES A PERSON HAVE TO SEARCH FOR THIS! I can trip over useless, fanciful, imaginary heating info ( you mod's know exactly what I mean) thats even encouraged, and this I have to search for!!!!:flame:
> 
> Lori, there should be a best thread ever award. While it likely exceeds my abitities to construct, Maybe too involved for many others as well, it is a great example of what a person can do, and do for themself.
> 
> ...


Please explain a little more about how you would do this (*a water to air heat exchanger). Air is super heated in the pipes and is very dangerous to work with... You may know more about this than I, but have to point it out.*

Our system does require a small amount of electricity to power the water pumps and the blower. In an outage, we have an auto-switch Generator power up, hook up a smaller one, then shut the big bad boy down.


----------



## ChristieAcres (Apr 11, 2009)

After reading that again, could you please explain what you are thinking of doing? I think I am not getting it


----------



## justin_time (Dec 2, 2012)

lorichristie said:


> Please explain a little more about how you would do this (*a water to air heat exchanger). Air is super heated in the pipes and is very dangerous to work with... You may know more about this than I, but have to point it out.*
> 
> *I didnt figure out how it would work for you, only me. First like you my heating is with wood, I didnt build the entire stove as you did, rather took a existing one, and modified it for features I wanted, then overtime built a large stainless steel hotwater tank for it, so I get my domestic hot water from it with lots left over, I woud have to check my notes from years ago but if I remember right it typicaly stores 100,000 btus dont hold me that as I may be off. Well all I need to do is drop another coil in the tank, a pump to circulate the water to the water to air heat exchanger that I will put on the drier, I have to do some figuring, just to make sure I have the needed btus but I think I am in the ball park, if not no biggy, I will build a coil/system for the fire box to use to extract the heat I need, a open drainback system ofcourse*


----------



## ChristieAcres (Apr 11, 2009)

Thank you for that explanation, fully understand it now 

I also am glad you found the thread! My main reason for posting it was to show other HTer's it could be done safely (also to encourage them to look into what they could do with existing wood stoves...). I posted info on that booklet for that reason after there were a number of posts refuting the safety of the system DH was building (for good reason if he didn't complete a safe system).

Our dryer system? The Wood Stove has pipe running through it and hot air is blown through them. The heated air exists on the right side (7 pipes). DH built and installed a Steel Clothes Rack. There you go


----------



## ChristieAcres (Apr 11, 2009)

Here is how we fired the dryer (this one is in my dining room, but we have another similar one near our wood stove)


----------



## ChristieAcres (Apr 11, 2009)

Here is another rack, but this one is made from aluminum. It was purchased by another HTer and shipped (was threaded at the ends, so it was shipped in pieces that screwed together). That was a one time thing as DH can only build them for local sale.


----------



## ChristieAcres (Apr 11, 2009)

Here is the 1st one he built, slightly different from the 2nd suspended type. More clothing can be hung from the 2nd one. These are built out of steel. DH used his bender...


----------



## justin_time (Dec 2, 2012)

lorichristie said:


> Thank you for that explanation, fully understand it now
> 
> I also am glad you found the thread! My main reason for posting it was to show other HTer's it could be done safely (also to encourage them to look into what they could do with existing wood stoves...). I posted info on that booklet for that reason after there were a number of posts refuting the safety of the system DH was building (for good reason if he didn't complete a safe system).
> 
> Our dryer system? The Wood Stove has pipe running through it and hot air is blown through them. The heated air exists on the right side (7 pipes). DH built and installed a Steel Clothes Rack. There you go


I never seen that book, but its likely has good info. Yea in theory you would think showing others would encourage them, fact is not really worth the effort, those with the stones and capable of rational thought will figure it out and geter done , too many want sit in front of the tube, becoming utube experts ... I didnt go the route of a closed system, as I am not a welder and couldnt trust my welds to hold pressure, I was lucky they didnt leak, I am a great grinder though!
You got lots of patience putting up with the bobble head parade, I dont, infact that pressure valve on top does nothing, I put it on as i just could not take having to explain again, and again , year after year how a open vessel could not contain pressure, now I just point to the valve when a house guess starts babbeling about blowing up my house, and my blood pressure stays lower, and I dont blow up.
I do have one concern though, in looking at your system, those threaded fittings 90's and 45's sure look like galvanized ones by the texture if they are galvanized, I can tell you I had some on my system, and the things coroded through at about the four year mark due to what I suspect was electrolitic erosion.I replaced them with stainless steel and never had a problem again, just something to beaware of


----------



## ChristieAcres (Apr 11, 2009)

justin_time said:


> I never seen that book, but its likely has good info. Yea in theory you would think showing others would encourage them, fact is not really worth the effort, those with the stones and capable of rational thought will figure it out and geter done , too many want sit in front of the tube, becoming utube experts ... I didnt go the route of a closed system, as I am not a welder and couldnt trust my welds to hold pressure, I was lucky they didnt leak, I am a great grinder though!
> 
> *Actually, posting this thread led to some HTer's PMing me to tell me they were converting their wood stoves (having them done by licensed contractors) and one was a Welder who was building one similar. I read regularly of folks frustrated with their electric bills... You would think a lot more would set up a similar system to fire their electricity hogs over the Winter... The Heat Exchange Coils installed internally made our system more effective than external systems, but the latter are still great!*
> 
> ...


DH installed extra PRV's due to ours being a closed system. None of our friends or family have even questioned the safety of it. DH's DF gave his seal of approval on DH's system, too (he is a retired Engineer).

DH is asleep, couldn't tell you if the fittings are galvanized or not, but if so, DH will just end up replacing them with stainless like you did 

Those drying rack pics? We posted the suspended ones locally, and only my friend, a Massage Therapist bought one. She was so thrilled with hers that she wants DH to build her another one, dedicated to just herbs. I use the one in the living room for clothing all year around! In the warmer months, I dry mainly lighter articles of clothing on it, use the exterior clothesline for the heavier items. The one installed on our dining room ceiling is used for light clothing in warmer months, unless I am drying herbs on that one. We sold one standing rack to an HTer, who was very happy with it. No one locally has bought one yet. I am surprised... Why? The sheer savings alone! Our friend is saving $50/month not using her clothes dryer. It doesn't take any math ability to determine how fast the racks pay for themselves. I prefer the suspended ones. They are attached to the studs in the ceiling and I can hang long items on them.

Funny that you wrote this:



> too many want sit in front of the tube, becoming utube experts


DH won't go near my computer, flat hates them. He has a sticker on his motorcycle that says, "Kill your TV." he feel the same way about computers. If he didn't have to use a telephone, he wouldn't, as he considers those a necessary evil.

So, guess who has to do all the computer work... Yep, easy one, eh?! In the morning, he hits the floor running, or should I say "bicycling..." :run: That man is nonstop all day long, working on paying work, or fixing something around here, or building something else he thinks we need. In the morning, I have one thought  Now, don't get me wrong... Just because I do the computer work, doesn't mean I am not doing a lot more besides. It just starts later with me, is all. I'll be up for almost two more hours while DH has been asleep for awhile now.

Oh, yes, now don't diss "YouTube," too much... Thanks to watching an informative one on pressure canning a few years ago? I got over any nervousness I felt and went for it. A full pantry resulted :shocked: In fact, I have to be careful what I watch on YouTube, as I can only do so much...:dance:


----------



## justin_time (Dec 2, 2012)

The racks from the ceiling are the way to go, funny thing is I made a similar one but I use it for holding my pool cues over the pool table, never thought of using them for drying clothes. I will make some for that purpose. I will use rebar for the hooks, as I like the rougher texture.
Now as time goes by, you could start recording your yearly consumption of wood the type burnt, how long dried,length of heating season, and see how over time the changes you make effect consumption of wood burnt, I keep mine in racks, for drying, and so I always know the exact amount I have, have stored, and have used, It could be usefull data in comparing different systems, and changes made.
I run a tight ship regarding wood use, and know almost down to the number of logs I use each season (though I measure by cord),do to the stove and mods made I do not have to split my wood, Its always important to keep working on reducing fuel use as people forget heating with wood is work, and the less work spent cutting hauling stacking,loading the better, more so as the decades go by and your 30's become, your 40's, your40's your 50's, I cant imagine what my eightys will be like cutting firewood:hrm:. 

Maybe by then they they will have discovered a stove that takes in BS and spits out 8 times more wood than a rocket mass heater uses.
Yes I am just making a funny...for those who know what I am talking about.


----------



## Johnny Dolittle (Nov 25, 2007)

lorichristie said:


> Thanks for the compliments!
> 
> I will pass on that comment for my DH  He is an "old school" Industrial Mechanic/Machinist/Welder (Certified as WABO, requirement for structural welding). He never fails to surprise me with what he can do. Since he sustained a severe brain injury in 1995, he cannot learn the skills he would need for computerized equipment. His other issues require he work out of his own shop, organize it himself, maintaining his own "order," so he can find everything.
> 
> You must be a very handy guy yourself! What kind of work do you do?


I just turned 60 and I am still trying to decide what I want to do when I grow up:happy2:
My Dad was a small residential house builder and Grandpap was a dairy farmer. My Dad also had a small cabinetry shop to support the house building. I went into the Army 1971 and took nine months of electronics (secure communication repair). Then I used my GI Bill to go to PSU and I have a degree in horticulture (food crops) ... was in a dual major with agronomy but got tired of school and dropped out of agronomy... went to college 2 years and quit and built houses with my Dad for 2 years and then went back to school and graduated when I was 30. The economy was terrible when I graduated in 1982 so I was cutting fire wood to make ends meet and I ruptured a disc in my lower back and could not work for a year. Then I worked various jobs in horticulture for 10 years but my back always became an issue... I kept trying to find a job compatible with my back limitations (I am not a sit behind desk kind of guy). One of those jobs was outrageous.... actually I was self employed and farmed in a crop-share agreement with an Amish man. He had a big hog operation and managed the packing house for for a vegetable growers co-op .... he had land and resources and no time to farm it . So we had 20 acres all on trickle irrigation and 8 acres were staked tomatoes. We had a 12 Mexican migrant workers for the season. That was 1988 .... the year of the worst drought I can remember ..... but we had water I knew how to drive draft horses and used my klunker tractors and borrowed a neighbors big rig to spray the chemicals (no I didn't enjoy that)

I worked also on a smaller farm which was an extension of a sheltered workshop for handicapped people for 2 years ... I was the program director (fancy name that means get it done with no tools) .... Oh got an interesting story.... about this job... I interviewed in coat and tie ..... part of interview was to go to the farm (which had not been lived on many years). The tractor was locked in a shed and it was winter and the lock was frozen. So the Executive Director watched me take my hand and grasp the lock and hold onto it until it thawed .... so I got us in because I wanted to see that tractor! .... Now guess what I did during the interview that caused me to get that job !!!!!!!!!!:happy2: ... Of course they told me they had some money for tools etc .... which was mostly not true!

After the Amish adventure (which was too much for my weak back) I worked on an 8 acre greenhouse range .... half was modern and half old school. Was there 2 years but was across the state from my home and so moved back 1991. Could not find ag work and home is not good growing for produce except in tunnels. So my dads old shop was vacant so I started wood working and had a struggle but eventually got an agreement to provide all of the interior railings for a modular home factory. I did this for 11 years and then quit 6 years ago because I developed allergies and could no longer tolerate the dust. Those years were the best income making years and now I have 80 acres:happy2:. So I shut down the wood shop and bought used greeenhouse frames to convert to high tunnels.... meanwhile the local Amish were setting up a produce auction. The greenhouse frames I bought were standing and 1 1/2 hr away in Pittsburgh. So tore them down through the winter but while I was doing it gas went to $4 a gallon 2008 which caused the other inputs needed to grow to sky rocket. I decided not to put up the tunnels (I have enough to cover 1/4 acre) .... worked at whatever to survive that year ..... took a night course in machine shop .... which led to taking 3 months in a tech school to learn cnc programming.... I liked it so much I decided to take 6 additional courses in Master Cam programming for 6 weeks. The economy was crashing while I was taking these courses over the winter 2008-2009 and the machine shops which were very busy began laying off :happy2:..... So I did not get a job ..... and then later when hiring began a year later I discovered employers did not like to hire guys who are 57 :huh: Soooo I do all kinds of thing from security work at Marcellus gas well sites (if there is drilling near by). I have a garden tractor salvage business (mostly ebay). I am setting up the tunnels and will soon have a thread dedicated to the tunnel project. Also I bought some machine shop tools with intent to do some repairs.... and I have some cnc wood working tools needing electrical repairs .... those machines can be operated in a cabinate with vacuum to remove the dust since I have low tolerance. I have some good ideas to sell wood furniture on ebay. Also since 1970's I have always owned a small sawmill .... in 90's my Dad and I built a band mill. One summer I logged with horses :happy2: Last fall I helped the neighbor put up grain bins and sometimes I will operate his equipment
I was divorced in my 20's and never remarried so I did this all alone ....

So..... You ask what I do for a living .................................?????????????????????

....... well not sure of anything except I am a man with way too many irons in the fire.


----------



## ChristieAcres (Apr 11, 2009)

Wow, have to take off for an appt, will respond later when I return. Are you sure your not one of our long lost relatives? Diversity R Us is how it is in my family, well who is left, that is.


----------



## haypoint (Oct 4, 2006)

In an earlier post, someone mentioned using a water to air heat exchanger in a clothes dryer. I have a friend that has a home-made wood fired boiler system. While the in floor tubing works great and the 30,000 hot water resevour is super, the water from the boiler cannot get enough heat to the water to air heat exchanger to get the clothes dryer anywhere close to hot enough. Fail.


----------



## justin_time (Dec 2, 2012)

haypoint said:


> In an earlier post, someone mentioned using a water to air heat exchanger in a clothes dryer. I have a friend that has a home-made wood fired boiler system. While the in floor tubing works great and the 30,000 hot water resevour is super, the water from the boiler cannot get enough heat to the water to air heat exchanger to get the clothes dryer anywhere close to hot enough. Fail.


Haypoint, 

to many variables to conclude fail , except in your friends case as that proved to be so.
The key to sucess will have to start with the heat exchanger chosen. I know the coolmate 4 exchangers, can handle 5000+ watts (say 18,000 btu/hr. as I have seen them cooling torches doing high amp tig roots at 300 + amps, at roughly 16-17 volts with a 100 duty cycle. So if you start with the right exchanger thats half the battle, with the wrong exchanger, no chance,the other parameters that determine how well it will work will be the flow rate pumped through the exchanger, at what temp it enters ( my case say 185-190), and the flow rate of air blown across the coils, that part is all over my head to figure out, but each parameter in use can be tweeked to dail in the best performance. If I can only extract say 4000 of the 5000 watt+ potential, that as near as I can tell is nearly what a drier can do (240 volts x 25 amps=6000 watts). Excuse my switching to watts as such, just easier for me to work in than BTUS. The devil will be in the detail as they say, it allways is..


----------



## ChristieAcres (Apr 11, 2009)

Johnny Dolittle said:


> I just turned 60 and I am still trying to decide what I want to do when I grow up:happy2:
> 
> _*That is me, but DH had it figured out years ago, but we both share an absolute passion for adventures. DH is turning 57, and I am 49.*_
> 
> ...


I am sure of something. If you and DH got together, you would be absolutely unstoppable, a real force to be reckoned with in skillsets, abilities, and DH could handle the physical labor. You would make a rocking team, too bad you are so far away. I'll tell you a little more about DH.

He began working very young, at a Lumber Yard. From there, he went to work at a Saw Mill, a few job changes, but mostly at Saw Mills until he was 39 (the accident). He had tested out to be a Journeyman Machinist without ever taking a class, with a score of 99% (experience and reading all the manuals for a full out class), and was a Millwright for over 10 years. DH got his Pilot's License scored very high, just before his accident (unconventional motorcycle accident- took 65mph impact to his chest and one side of his face). Half his face was crushed, suffered a severe brain injury, all ribs broken, liver torn in three places, one lung collapsed, right forearm was fractured in many places, and he lost 90% of his blood (was airlifted to Harborview Hospital in Seattle, WA). If the Battalian Chief of the Fire Dept hadn't been at his house when this accident occured, he would have died. As it was, no one at the hospital could believe he was alive when he was brought in. DH was in a coma for over a month. He wasn't expected to survive, but he miraculously did. His parents were told he would not be able to walk or talk, but he could. However, his brain injury did affect his filters (he is steadily losing his hearing, but the worst thing is his issues with understanding what is said), also his short term memory (cannot learn new skills). He functions very well considering all that! While he was in the hospital, it was discovered his back had been broken, but healed on its own. His parents were told about it, but no one knew when it occurred. DH knew when it happened, but didn't realize it at the time (wrapped a motorcycle around a tree...). After a few years of rehab, DH tried to go back to work, but his issues made it impossible. His DW wanted a divorce, so they did, and DH moved to this County to start his own business. No matter what had happened in his life, like you, he kept going, doing what he could. DH has owned/operated his own Machinist/Welding shop since 1999. His current site is: http://www.christieironworks.com/

Despite all that happened to DH, he retained his old skill-sets, and he flew an airplane just a few years ago (CFI accompanied us). He can build new things as long as he can utilize his old skill-sets. That is why we have older vehicles, for example. Len was a good old school mechanic, too. He built our wood splitter, designed and built our wood stove, modified it completely himself, did all the work with the pipes, also when we got a generator, he installed the auto-switch himself, repaired the out-drive on our old Glasply (currently repairing the fiberglass flooring inside), and he has yet to fail to fix something. That is his knack for sure. I have mugs he has repaired, when I say he fixes things, I am not kidding! Work? I have never seen a harder working man in my life. DH works 7 days/week, cannot stop unless he is taking a hike, riding his bike, fishing, foraging for mushrooms, going camping (has to bring an ax so he can split wood).

His physical injuries healed, except for the 7th nerve paralysis, which affects the muscles in the damaged side of his face, and his right forearm has limited rotation. He can only move his wrist a few inches back/forth, not sure how he does so much with it. There is still one titanium brace in that arm. One entire side of his jaw is titanium. What is the most surprising was his physical healing. He is in excellent physical condition (just did 3 sets of military pushups, totaling 180 tonight, not sure how many situps or 45# arm curls). He lifts regularly with his work, too.

If you have ever seen my gardening thread, all the hard physical work and building was done by DH. He has built me two garden cabins (one was moved here from out last property and he rebuilt it), a chicken house, all of the raised beds, and today he built a delicious cheesecake (his first DW couldn't cook, so he did). He did all the logging on our property, recent took down a full truckload of Cedars (100ft+ tall trees).

So while you have the physical limitation with your back, he has the mental ones... I feel for both of you, makes everything so much more challenging. So many folks take their abilities for granted. :huh:

I will be interested to see the threads you post, after reading how much you can do!!!


----------



## ChristieAcres (Apr 11, 2009)

justin_time said:


> The racks from the ceiling are the way to go, funny thing is I made a similar one but I use it for holding my pool cues over the pool table, never thought of using them for drying clothes. I will make some for that purpose. I will use rebar for the hooks, as I like the rougher texture.
> 
> _*Good for you, then you can post how it just rocks to have suspended racks. I think it is great to be able to use our 2nd one for drying my herbs, even though I have most of the ceiling of a spare bedroom set up for it. DH cut cedar strips and painted them black for another project. Since he had quite a few leftover, he mounted them on the ceiling, with hooks in them. I hang my herbs from those hooks. These days I am growing in such abundance, that I will need that entire setup in the bedroom, the rack in our dining room, and maybe need another rack built for my garden cabin... Uh oh, something to put on the Honey Do List. Poor DH, drives himself to distraction, hate to ask him to do more work...
> 
> ...


That was funny, I think, if I understood it correctly... So, what is your take on Rocket Mass Heaters? I would like to build one for my future greenhouse, as I would like to heat it over the Winter.


----------



## justin_time (Dec 2, 2012)

lorichristie said:


> That was funny, I think, if I understood it correctly... So, what is your take on Rocket Mass Heaters? I would like to build one for my future greenhouse, as I would like to heat it over the Winter.


Lori I would rather not detract further from your thread on your stove build.I pulled it away by my tangent on a drier mod. Further comments on a subject like RMH belong elsewhere, my little funny comment already had your thread taken down for part of yesterday. Other things are going on....
If you wish my thoughts just pm me, or start a seperate thread with that question,though it may dissapear...
Regarding tracking of wood use I understand how you would think it is to variable, I thought so to at one time, but as the years go by, and as my notes (a book kept right by the fireplace) fills in year after year, my notes with maybe a entry once a week noteing when the first snow fall was when the stove was lit up for good, the type of wood I burnt each year,how long dried, changes made, out side temp, changes done to the house like new windows, or more insulation, when the fire was put out in the spring. Despite yearly irrgularities, in time I can see what works, but thats just me, I understand recording such info isnt fun for everyone, but I dont watch tv so thats one of my forms of fun....


----------



## ChristieAcres (Apr 11, 2009)

justin_time said:


> Lori I would rather not detract further from your thread on your stove build.I pulled it away by my tangent on a drier mod. Further comments on a subject like RMH belong elsewhere, my little funny comment already had your thread taken down for part of yesterday. Other things are going on....
> If you wish my thoughts just pm me, or start a seperate thread with that question,though it may dissapear...
> Regarding tracking of wood use I understand how you would think it is to variable, I thought so to at one time, but as the years go by, and as my notes (a book kept right by the fireplace) fills in year after year, my notes with maybe a entry once a week noteing when the first snow fall was when the stove was lit up for good, the type of wood I burnt each year,how long dried, changes made, out side temp, changes done to the house like new windows, or more insulation, when the fire was put out in the spring. Despite yearly irrgularities, in time I can see what works, but thats just me, I understand recording such info isnt fun for everyone, but I dont watch tv so thats one of my forms of fun....


We don't watch tv, either, no time for that. The fittings were replaced with stainless steel ones. I'll PM you later about the Rocket Mass Stove. That would seem to be my best option here, for heating the next greenhouse. Otherwise, get your point on the wood consumption tracking. Glad it works for you, just being more conservative works for me. DH knows how much wood we use yearly and that is why we started to be more conservative. It is sunny today, so I will let the fire go out. We won't need a fire until near sundown, so I will build one then


----------

