# Why is motor oil in Ford 8N dirty after only a few hours?



## ssmeester (Sep 23, 2010)

Hi Everyone,

We bought a Ford 8N that "supposedly" had the engine redone. So far, Hubby had to replace the battery, battery terminals, complete tune up, and a new radiator. 

The oil looked good when we bought in this spring and he only drove it 2 hours tops before it took ill:heh:

He just got it started again yesterday and found that the oil is very dirty. How could the oil get dirty with only 2 hours and a summer vacation resting in the field?

OK it's obvious that we don't know a hill of beans about tractors

Thanks for your help.
Sandra


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## Grumpy old man (Aug 6, 2013)

A fresh rebuild and sitting for the summer is not a good thing engines need to run frequently helps with condensation and a few hours on a rebuild you should be changing that oil about now anyway , oil has detergent in it to help keep engine internals clean and dirty oil is just doing its job . Change the oil and filter and look for metal ,as. Long as no metal your good to go


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## coolrunnin (Aug 28, 2010)

Rings can take time to seat, causing some contamination issues. Make sure your air filter is installed correctly or full of oil. 

Its really a little early to need to change the oil unless you have idled it alot, but this isn't all that uncommon on a fresh overhaul.


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## alleyyooper (Apr 22, 2005)

Also make sure the oil bath air cleaner is kept full of clean oil so dirt doesn't get by the cloged mesh from dirty oil not keeping it cleaner.

 Al


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## sammyd (Mar 11, 2007)

It is oils job to get dirty. And a really old engine has plenty of gunk hanging out inside it.


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## Bret4207 (May 31, 2008)

Just because it's a fresh rebuild doesn't mean the block was boiled out. And since it's a "supposedly" fresh rebuild there is probably even more chance it was some time back or not done at all. The oil is going to discolor at a greater or lesser rate in any liquid fuel engine. Engines fueled by gasses like propane discolor at a slower rate, but they do it too. It's just part of the deal with any engine.


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## TNHermit (Jul 14, 2005)

Does an 8N even have an oil filter?


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## agmantoo (May 23, 2003)

When the old 8n was young most of the oil was non detergent. You probably now have detergent oil. The detergent oil is breaking loose all the years of build up/sludge from the earlier non detergent oil.


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## TNHermit (Jul 14, 2005)

agmantoo said:


> When the old 8n was young most of the oil was non detergent. You probably now have detergent oil. The detergent oil is breaking loose all the years of build up/sludge from the earlier non detergent oil.


IF they are running detergent oil it will ruin the engine. Detergent keeps all the crap suspended to go through a filter and get caught. Non detergent lets it fall to the bottom of the pan. 

I know I ruined a engine that way


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## FarmboyBill (Aug 19, 2005)

Ya don't suppose they put clean oil in it to sell it do ya??

Get ready for a great mechanical education and a whole, more extensive vocabulary.
BUT NOT MUCh farming/gardening/homesteading with that tractor.


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## alleyyooper (Apr 22, 2005)

Had a 9N and a 8N many years ago seems I remember a canister that held a cartridge filter for the oil. I know even my old 1938 Massey Harris 101R has the canister and cartridge filter for the oil in it.

2, 9 and 8 N's are good tractors if you keep in mind their age and the limits of Tecnoclogy in the era they were built and sold in. 
Today you can still buy 90% of the parts to rebuild one or repair one.

In this area you can buy a running one for about 12 to 15 hundred with no equipment. Fiddle around making a nice yard at a new home for a year and sell the thing for what you paid or a bit more even.

 Al


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## sammyd (Mar 11, 2007)

TNHermit said:


> IF they are running detergent oil it will ruin the engine. Detergent keeps all the crap suspended to go through a filter and get caught. Non detergent lets it fall to the bottom of the pan.
> 
> I know I ruined a engine that way


It is much better to have any sludge filtered out than to have it build up in places it doesn't belong.
The Navy runs high detergent oil in their diesels and they go plenty of hours between rebuilds.


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## FarmboyBill (Aug 19, 2005)

OF COURSE one can buy all the parts to rebuild one. Beings as theyre always breaking down, theres a market for supplying all the parts.
Someone mentioned about their age and the difficulties they have because of their age. Alla my tractors are either their age or older and I don't have a fraction of the trouble with mine as ive heard Ford owners have with Theres.
Yes, they hold up their prices real well. Theres a sucker born every moment


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## coolrunnin (Aug 28, 2010)

FarmboyBill said:


> OF COURSE one can buy all the parts to rebuild one. Beings as theyre always breaking down, theres a market for supplying all the parts.
> Someone mentioned about their age and the difficulties they have because of their age. Alla my tractors are either their age or older and I don't have a fraction of the trouble with mine as ive heard Ford owners have with Theres.
> Yes, they hold up their prices real well. Theres a sucker born every moment


I am by no means a ford lover, but within a 10 mile radius of me I can think of one farmall H, one allis wd, and one farmall m, and eleven 2 8 9n fords they have something going for them that the other models don't.


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## sammyd (Mar 11, 2007)

they were dirt cheap back in the day, Ford produced tons of them and undersold everyone else until Farmall started playing the price game.
The small Fords have little going for them that is any better than any other brand.


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## TNHermit (Jul 14, 2005)

sammyd said:


> It is much better to have any sludge filtered out than to have it build up in places it doesn't belong.
> The Navy runs high detergent oil in their diesels and they go plenty of hours between rebuilds.


Even the manual said NOT to use detergent oil But I thought i was smarter. Not so much


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## logbuilder (Jan 31, 2006)

I've had my 1942 9N for about 12 years. I use it to bushhog 5 acres and smooth the driveway with a box blade.

There are a few things I have learned. Use non-detergent oil. The oil filter is in a canister on the left side. Always turn off the gas petcock and run the carb dry every time you put it away. Don't leave it in the rain or you will be cleaning the distributor often. Store it dry and no problems. I've not found anything I can't repair. Parts can be had here. Get a shop manual here. A very active forum with lots of helpful people can be located here. Always use a hydraulic fluid comparable to Ford 134D. Be sure to turn off the key for storage. I converted the electrical system to 12 volt. Not that hard. Works much better. If you are going to be using a bushhog, I really like stay chains. Forget a tiller. 2N/9N/8N ground speed is not slow enough. Never change gears while moving. If you use the PTO, get an over-running coupler. This is important for safety reasons. Make sure you have oil in the bottom of the air filter. Be careful about going up steep inclines. These tractors don't have a lot of weight up front and are known to flip. If you are going to be pulling heavy things (like logs), learn how to properly chain to a low point, also to avoid flipping. I keep a new distributor, coil and rotor on hand. When they go, they go and my NAPA store doesn't stock them.

Here is mine:


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## FarmboyBill (Aug 19, 2005)

Sounds like wisdom to me. My tractors have ALWYS been stored OUTSIDE. I don't have anything here for a reserve part as I don't know what part to get. None goes out. I DO always turn off the gas tho and let them run dry. My hydraulic fluid is for any 40s tractor.
One dosent need an over riding clutch when using a sickle mower, or sprayer, 

I notice LOTS of people who have Fords of any model that are old, either have a drawbar where its supposed to go, OR they have the draw bar that fits between the 3pt arms and pull with that. Not good.

Here in Okla, when I first came here, 1/2 the people had a For N series of some kind. Now, I don't know anybody who has one. Peoples got money and they buy the small foreign 4 wheel drives.


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## alleyyooper (Apr 22, 2005)

People who fualt the Fords and claim the other brands were better are doing the compairing with blinders on.

My 48 had a 3 point hitch that worked with lots of different equipment and No other brand of tractor built in 1948 had such a thing except the Fergusons. They were pretty powerfull for their size and fit in a small low shed. steering them wasn't a hard thing to do either I feel due to the 19 inch front tires. 
I had a 2 bottom plow I plowed my place with and did the garden. I also had a disk harrow you adjusted the cut with the 3 point hitch from wide open to fully closed and inbetween. The spring tooth you lifted to transpost and the shoes didn't wear going down the road.

Since nearly all the equipment transported in the air and the size was such I made a ton of money doing gardens for town folks. Plots not even big enough to turn around in you could do with the N series. Just lift the plow and back up to the fence and drop the plow and go forward. Try that with a Farmall H or M or any Massey Harris built before 1952. 

Today the thousand series fords command good prices on the resale market. 2000's thru the 7000's
Diesels or gas for which ever suits your fancy.

 Al


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## Bret4207 (May 31, 2008)

alleyyooper said:


> People who fualt the Fords and claim the other brands were better are doing the compairing with blinders on.
> 
> *My 48 had a 3 point hitch that worked with lots of different equipment and No other brand of tractor built in 1948 had such a thing except the Fergusons.* They were pretty powerfull for their size and fit in a small low shed. steering them wasn't a hard thing to do either I feel due to the 19 inch front tires.
> I had a 2 bottom plow I plowed my place with and did the garden. I also had a disk harrow you adjusted the cut with the 3 point hitch from wide open to fully closed and inbetween. The spring tooth you lifted to transpost and the shoes didn't wear going down the road.
> ...


I'm not a 9n/2n/8n lover and I admit it. But I want to comment on the sentence in bold in the quote. In 1948 3 pt equipment was not common at all. Fords 3 pt equipment was just as much proprietary into the mid 50's as IHCs Fast Hitch, A/C's Snap Coupler, Cases Eagle Hitch (which fit a lot of 3pt stuff) or any other companies hitch and lift system. What sold all the 3 pt stuff was the sales of the Fords for a dirt cheap price. Ford did the same with the tractors as he did with the cars- cheap! Todays 3pts are so far evolved from Harry Fergusons original 3pt that they aren't even comparable. While Ford certainly won the sales war, it took other companies to refine the idea into a truly workable system. 

As far as the "equipment transported in the air", the same thing could be said for any mounted equipment in the same era. My pre-Eagle 47 Case VAC plows are high in the air, the IHC Cub, A, B and C at least transported implements in well off the ground, same for AC, Deere and some others. 

I guess my point is that there were plenty of options back in the day, but Ford had them beat through price an dealer support since every Ford dealer could sell a tractor. Other than that, the Ford was a pretty run of the mill rig with few outstanding points going for it.


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## FarmboyBill (Aug 19, 2005)

AND, I have to agree wirth what was said about Fords being satisfactory garden tractors. Yes, they copuld get I nto spaces larger tractors couldn't, and yes, they were low down and so able to gety under trees, electrical lines and close lines to work I n back yards ect. AND Yes, they, for the most part likely kept going long enough to complete a garden or 2.

Being a farmer I was considering the Ford as a FARM tractor, plowing 50 acres a year, ect. The fact that they were so low down limited there ability to cultivate corn and other crops very high. There being built when most buzz saws, hammermills, threshers, husker shredders, ect were belt drivin, with other tractors, they came with the belt pulley as standard equipment. With Ford, One had to purchase a belt pulley attachment. EVEN the FORDSONS Came with a belt pulley


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## sammyd (Mar 11, 2007)

TNHermit said:


> Even the manual said NOT to use detergent oil But I thought i was smarter. Not so much


Didn't have detergent oil when the 9N was born, it didn't hit big till after the war.
I believe putting detergent oil in an old machine full of sludge may cause problems but it would be because of all the old buildup from the old ND oil.
Changing the oil and filter more frequently after switching or even taking a few parts off and cleaning the engine up would go a long way towards alleviating problems.


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## TNHermit (Jul 14, 2005)

sammyd said:


> Didn't have detergent oil when the 9N was born, it didn't hit big till after the war.
> I believe putting detergent oil in an old machine full of sludge may cause problems but it would be because of all the old buildup from the old ND oil.
> Changing the oil and filter more frequently after switching or even taking a few parts off and cleaning the engine up would go a long way towards alleviating problems.


Mine was a brand new troy built in 2000. I ran for a while and when got time to change oil i thought It would be better with detergent. it ground the rings out of it.


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## Bret4207 (May 31, 2008)

TNHermit said:


> Mine was a brand new troy built in 2000. I ran for a while and when got time to change oil i thought It would be better with detergent. it ground the rings out of it.



It's more or less common knowledge that if you're going to go from non-detergent to detergent that you have to change the oil every couple hours or hundred miles until the oil runs pretty clean. Or at least I thought it was common knowledge. And considering the low quality engines Troybilt has been using since they got bought out, it might not have been just the oil that did it.


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## k9 (Feb 6, 2008)

What color does the oil turn when it is "dirty"?


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## FarmboyBill (Aug 19, 2005)

black


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## fixer1958 (Dec 12, 2005)

Depends on the supposed rebuild. I agree there is crud build up. I used detergent oil in my OLD tractors and never had a problem in all the years I abused/used them with no problems.
Not discounting what TN hermit said, I haven't had the problem

I'm thinking negatives thoughts is the issue. Stroke her once in awhile and tell her how much you love her and what a good job she is doing and see if it turns around. It works....Do the same for your vehicle and you won't spend as much on repairs. Change the oil and filter also in the meantime. N's need all the encouragement they can get.

Just sayin'....... personal experience.


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## k9 (Feb 6, 2008)

FarmboyBill said:


> black


Thanks, glad you were able to see that for me.


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## jwal10 (Jun 5, 2010)

Oil gets dark colored from dirt, deposits in, or carbon from the engine. IF the engine was rebuilt and not broken in properly, rings not seated or installed properly, it could be getting carbon by the rings. A good way of telling how good a rebuild is, is to take a compression check. Any new engine rebuild in an old tractor should have had non detergent oil added, broken in properly and the oil AND filter changed at or before 20 hours run time. Change the oil, run until warmed up, take a compression test. Run the tractor on a plow, cultivator, disk, anything with a good pull. Vary the RPM,s some. Around 10 hours use, change the oil AND filter again and check for discoloration....James


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## FarmboyBill (Aug 19, 2005)

james. U expect to get 10hrs out of an N series Ford plowing without a hitch?? Good luck lol. Five hours would be exceptional.


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## jwal10 (Jun 5, 2010)

I have plowed with a 8N for 2 months straight every day. 2 bottom, 14" 3pt Dearborn plow. No problem. Now, I am not a small Ford tractor man, grew up on IHC, then Case. I farmed 1000 acres with all JDs in the 70s and 80s. The little Fords after the Fordson were not bad tractors, light, nimble and easy handling, not a bad 3pt for its day. Engine, eh not much lugging power. I didn't like ACs either, tires too small, too light, BUT with that lift system the right implement, they worked well. An 8N would not pull a tag plow good at all, nor a heavy disk. All in the application and use, not abuse. Used within its limits, not a bad little tractor....James


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## FarmboyBill (Aug 19, 2005)

James, your the first I ever heard or knew that did real farming with one. Neighbor had one but used it with a buck rake and as a second tractor and a run around. It was easier to start than his early 40s JD A. Uncle had one. He thought it would be dandy in the cow lot on a manure spreader. He had a JD A with loader, and he thought the Ford would be the ticket to get in close with the spreader. It was an early 4 wheel rubber model.. That worked alright. Then he thought that with dad helping him if he got another spreader, he could be filling one while dad was spreading with the other one. Unfortunatly, he bought a newer 2 wheel model, And, when the Ford was hooked to it, it couldn't hardly keep the front wheels on the ground. So, dad drove his H up there and used it on the 2 wheel and the Ford on the 4. 
Other than those 2, nobody anywhere around had one. Ford didn't even have a tractor dealership in St Joe Mo. I know they used to sell them at car dealerships, but I never saw one at the local St Joe Ford dealer.


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## Phil V. (May 31, 2013)

A friend of mine's grandfather farmed 270 acres with 2 9n fords that did plowing and discing; 1 farmall b for cultivating and a dc case for flat belt work. They farmed like this from 1940 to 1962 when the grandparents retired.


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## FarmboyBill (Aug 19, 2005)

Phil. Im talking now. NOT when the tractors was new. AND I notice you say he had 2 TWO Fords, and one of the farmall and Case. MTY question is, Why would you plow with a 2 bottom Ford, when you could plow with a 3 bottom Case?


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## jwal10 (Jun 5, 2010)

Growing up, we had a DC Case, Never plowed with it. It ran the silo filler. We had a 3 bottom plow that was pulled behind a Farmall M and a 3 bottom eagle hitch plow on the 400 Case. That old DC had a wide front axle and was a bear to steer, it took 10 acres to turn around....James


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## jwal10 (Jun 5, 2010)

Bill, all tractors had their limits. Just because someone didn't use it correctly, or the right implements, does not mean it was a bad tractor. The ACs were very light and the rear tires were small but with the right implement, they did well. You are still thinking of in the old days of farming where dead pull was important. We left that era in the late 50s and early 60s, speed became the way to farm, first with the 460/560 IHCs and then JD with the 3010/4010 tractors. When we went to the 460/560 IHC, we dropped a bottom, ran faster and never had the rear end problems that the old time farmers did, slow, weighted heavy and loaded for bear....James


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## FarmboyBill (Aug 19, 2005)

The Fords were no faster or slower at plowing than other tractors. Slower, maybe iof going uphill as was the case with the one they bought out for dad to try. 
I imagine the old wide front ends were a bear to steer, and Case did put the wieight on the front of theres. Ive never ran a DC, But I had a SC, and plowed a lot with a 41 M. and id say I couldn't notice anything in difference with them. I plowed with both with a 2 14 MM plow.
I never knew anyone who had a rear end problem with their tractors.


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## Bret4207 (May 31, 2008)

Then you never knew anyone with an early 560.


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## FarmboyBill (Aug 19, 2005)

Nope, too new for me. I don't even know what make a tractor it is tho if I had to guess, id say IHC.


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## alleyyooper (Apr 22, 2005)

This 1954 Case VAC was a nice small tractor for small tractor work on our farm. With the two row cultivater on it it was impossiable to turn by a 10 year old kid or even a 15 year old. Was a worthless piece of equipment in the winter cause a good frost made it to slippery for it to get traction. Dad had a Moline mowetr that the 3pt. was used to lift the sickle bar with a cable set up. Dad also had a 2 bottom plow for it. Every thing else was trail equipment. Picture about 1956



The rest of the tractors on the farm were Massey Harris 44's and a WC Allis dad kept because of the two row mounted corn picker.


When I grew up and bought my place it would have been as handy as the 9N I bought if you could have found one. 
Today I have several Massey Harris 44's includeing a butane model, Two 81's,20, 22, 30 and two Mustangs, a 333, 55, 555 101jr 101R, pony and pacer. I have a D17 Allis and a 5000 Ford.
Just play things.

 Al


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## FarmboyBill (Aug 19, 2005)

I have 2 VACs that I gave to my DD and her husband. There both row crop. One has the 3pt one dosent. I also gave her a B Farmall


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## crabtree (Oct 26, 2013)

I have a 8N that my father used on thirty acres of field crops, plus 40 acres of hay fields.
I can not count all the small 1/4 to 1/2 acre gardens he turned for free, for small home gardens. That was back when people really gardens, not hanging baskets & pvc towers.
This tractor has been in my family for over 53 year, I learned to use it to plow in grade school. In MHI it is the AK-47 of tractors, simple & always ready to go, even a child can use it.
If I live long enough, I will teach my gran children on it.
This is America & you have the right to believe what you like, but I live with this tractors & my father In Law 10 John deers where hauled off for scrap including a 4040, after his death.
No one want to work on them & I did not need a tractor that did not run, cause I had my 8N tater bug. Tater Bug run rings around the John Deer as they sit dead in the field.
Maybe I have the only one left running, but the web count is hundreds are still running in 6 counties.


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