# Loose skin under ram lamb's jaw



## Fisch (Jan 6, 2010)

I have a Katahdin ram lamb, about 6 months old, who has a bit of loose skin under his jaw, about midway back. After he came off the pasture last night, it was noticeably larger, like he was packing away a large wad of cud in that area. This morning, there was nothing there but the little bit of loose skin again. I caught him the other day to get a closer look but it didn't feel firm or abscessed. I wormed him last in July, just after I had bought him. He's not showing any runny stools, seems to be eating fine. I suspected bottle jaw, but would bottle jaw come and go? Thanks for any input.


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

> I suspected bottle jaw, but *would bottle jaw come and go*?


Yes, it can.

It can be more noticeable when they have been grazing, then the swelling can go down when they are resting.

Check his eyelids to see if they are pale, and worm if needed


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## Fisch (Jan 6, 2010)

I wormed with Dectomax, but don't see on the bottle that it covers barberpole worms. Any recommendations on what to use?


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## PNP Katahdins (Oct 28, 2008)

Listen to Bearfoot. Bottle jaw appears worst when they are grazing (standing with head down to the ground). Then when they lay down to chew cud or rest, the fluid moves to the lowest part of the body. When they stand up and move around, the fluid stays where it is, until they start eating from the ground again and the lower jaw swells from the fluid moving there. This is serious.

Whatever you wormed him with in July, try something else NOW, or you may lose him. Talk to the people you got him from if you can, so they know what's going on. He may have brought some resistant worms with him, or you may have under-dosed him.

We drench with ivermectin maybe twice a year, and valbazen if something else is needed, except on ewes that could be pregnant. Never have used an injectible or pour-on, including Dectomax.

Good luck and let us know how he is doing.

Peg


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## PNP Katahdins (Oct 28, 2008)

Just looked up info on Dectomax, it should control barberpole which is also called wire worm. Haemonchus contortus is the formal name for the little killer that is the main cause of bottlejaw.


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## Fowler (Jul 8, 2008)

http://www.jackmauldin.com/barber_pole_worm.htm

http://www.sheep101.info/sheepdiseases.html

http://www.sheepandgoat.com/parasitecontrol.html

Has anyone seen/used/know of this?

http://www.stackyard.com/news/2010/02/veterinary/01_pfizer_cydectin.html


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## Fisch (Jan 6, 2010)

My vet says worm him and all sheep again with the Dectomax. The strange thing is the symptoms have only showed recently, in cooler weather, not the hot, wet, humid conditions that the worm favors. In fact, he has been on a dry lot, legume/grass hay only since August and I had wormed him in July when I brought him home. He was quarantined before I turned him out with the rest of the lambs. None of my other sheep show any signs of problems; all are robust, healthy animals raised on rotated pastures with lots of opportunity to break up any cycles. I try to worm only when necessary as I went with breeds that are by design more resistant (Katahdin, Dorper), using the twice a year plan. To tell you the truth, these Katahdins are beginning to strike me more of a high maintenance rather than low maintenance breed. I had one prolapse during her first delivery, another one has a mysterious seizure condition, another one eats like a horse and looks nearly as big as one, but didn't have any lambs the first time out. My dorper ewe on the other hand, lambed nearly as fast as I could blink, milked like a holstein and has never shown a lick of illness. I am going to buy some more Dorper ewes next week to focus more on breeding them. I like the complete shedding of the Katahdin and think they are a neat breed, but please, someone, assure me that I just might have rotten luck and they really are a worthy breed to invest in.


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## PNP Katahdins (Oct 28, 2008)

We bought our first Katahdin ewes from an ag professor who I knew had a very-low-maintenance flock. The registered ram came from a neighbor who had bought him from a breeder that had a lot of experience with easy-care sheep. They made a very good addition to our commercial wool flock that was pretty well selected for easy care, twinning, good mothering, and good growth. Now we have more Kats and fewer wool sheep every year.

We have rocky, hilly pastures and don't trim feet. Worming gets done two or maybe three times a year for the adults and some lambs. Most of the market lambs only get wormed once in the summer. I try to keep ewe lambs that show no sign of needing worming. Lambs that do need worming get sold for meat, not to someone for breeding. Our rams come from breeders that feed little or no grain. We have had one Kat prolapse in eight years. We have lost several ewes at lambing time, I figure they are out of the gene pool.

I've never heard of any specific seizure problems in the breed and usually the cause is not inherited. Your ewe that eats a lot and hasn't lambed needs to be culled or go to freezer camp, that can happen in any flock. She also could have slipped her pregnancy after the ram was taken out and not rebred, if you do things like we do.

Your Dorper sounds like our Kats, a pleasure to have in the flock. I hope she had a ewe lamb for you to keep.

Do you know what the ram lamb's breeder did for deworming? Make sure you don't underdose him!

Peg


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

> The strange thing is the symptoms have only showed recently, in cooler weather, not the hot, wet, humid conditions that the worm favors.


He could have picked up the worms when it was warm, and now they have multiplied to a critical level.

They swallow larvae that takes time to develop


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

> I am going to buy some more *Dorper* ewes next week to focus more on breeding them. I like the complete shedding of the *Katahdin *and think they are a neat breed, but please, someone, assure me that I just might have rotten luck and they really are a worthy breed to invest in.


Crossbreed them and you'll have the best traits of both.


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## Fisch (Jan 6, 2010)

The breeder hasn't had any problems with barberpole; he worms as little as possible, had 100 percent survival with lambs this year after they got going, and lost one ewe, an otherwise healthy ewe who is to believed to have died from a lightning strike. I gave him 1.5 cc of Dectomax tonight; his swelling looked much more noticeably large, his eyes and gums definitely pale. He was eating normally, alert and shifty to catch otherwise. I am worming the rest tomorrow in the light so I can check their signs as well.

The Katahdin HD (heavy duty) gets one more shot at breeding this year because in truth, my whole breeding program last year was a fluke. I bought 4 ewe lambs and 2 dorper whethers last summer with the intent of breeding the ewes to a katahdin ram when one was found. It turned out that one of the whethers was semi-intact with one very small but very functional testicle. He bred 3 out of the 4 before getting sent away to the packer. I didn't suspect anything until one day I noticed he was awfully romantic for being a cut ram. I caught him, and sure enough, he was a one-nut wonder. The vet said that there was a very good chance the ewes were bred, so I didn't bother getting another "ram" at that point. He produced 2 very nice dorper ram lambs, a very nice dorp/kat cross ram that I am keeping, and 2 dorp/kat ewes, one of which I am culling as her mother was the prolapser. 

My intentions this year were to breed a dorper ram to the ewes and raise the katahdin for next year's breeding. I bought a dorper ram and he went absolutely balistic during the right back to the farm. After I pulled up to the barn to unload him, I grabbed his halter, and he started to make an odd groaning sound, went flat on his side, legs arrow straight and shaking, and died right there on the spot. I absolutely couldn't believe it. Hence, I am beginning to wonder if I am extremely unlucky, because I have my doubts that so many such unfortunate things have happened to others. My friends and family tell me that I need to write a book for the therapeutic benefit.


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## kit (Apr 15, 2004)

Gee that is really rotten luck!!! Hope things improve - we really do find ours to be low maintenance. But not no work by any means... we vacinate and worm once per year but that is about it.


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## eieiomom (Jun 22, 2005)

That really is bad luck !

It might be helpful to give your ram lamb an injection of vitamin B-complex.
This can be good for supportive care in bottle jaw symptoms.

Deb


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## suzyhomemaker09 (Sep 24, 2004)

I searched that particular wormer and it doesn't seem to be available in the US. The only places I see selling are in the UK.


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## eieiomom (Jun 22, 2005)

It is available in the U.S.
Mid States, Animart and Pipestone definitely have it.

Deb


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## Fisch (Jan 6, 2010)

After a few days, it seems that the swelling under the jaw is gone completely. I wormed all of them with the Dectomax and will be taking the fecal samples to the vet in a few weeks as a follow up. The ram seems to be acting and eating normally. I plan on turning him in with some ewe lambs in the next week or so, pending his stamina. Thanks for all of the advice.


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## PNP Katahdins (Oct 28, 2008)

That is great news! Thanks for the update.

Peg


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## eieiomom (Jun 22, 2005)

That's good to hear, thanks for letting us know.

Deb


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