# Phantom energy



## ridethatpony (Jul 20, 2004)

so do I understand this correctly;
appliances are using electricity when they are plugged in, but not running?

So if the cell phone charger is disconnected from the phone but still plugged in, there is a waste of energy?


If I put things on a surge strip and turn the s.s. off, does this stop the phantom? 

thanks you


----------



## gotahouseful (May 20, 2007)

I don't know about the surge protector, but yep if you leave something plugged in it will use small amounts of energy even when your not using it. My cell phone charger has a little light on the plug, and it runs this light wether I'm charging or not, that takes energy. My DVD player has a light (you know the kind that tells you if its on or not or if a disc is in) and a clock, so it is always using a small amount of energy to run those features. Coffee pots, toasters, your stove all use power, if plugged in, even if they are not in use. All the small things add up. 

Elisabeth


----------



## OntarioMan (Feb 11, 2007)

Some devices do use some electricity when plugged in but not in use (a phantom load), other items do not. Which items? That is difficult to say exactly without measuring the amount of power used while the device is not in use. 

An older non-electronic toaster, for example, may have no phantom load - a newer digital toaster may have a phantom load. One brand of digital toaster may have a phantom load of 1 watt, another brand may have a phantom load of 10 watts.

In general, many "electronic" items (TV, VCR, computer) do use energy while plugged in and not in use. In general, items like light bulbs, older non-electronic toaster, non-electronic coffee pot, etc. do not use any electricity when not in use.

Using a power-strip (power bar) to shut-off the device is similar to unplugging it from the wall - so yes, a power-strip set to the off position will not allow any device to use any electricity.


----------



## Michael Kawalek (Jun 21, 2007)

Hi RTP
Yes, lots of stuff consume electricity when turned off. Anything that has a remote control (TV, stereo, ect) is ON if it is operated by a remote. So is any of the black cube type transformer/chargers. Anything that has a timer/clock is consuming electricity. Even your coffee maker consumes electricity if it is programable to turn on at 6am. The only appliances that consume only when turned on are heat producers like light bulbs, toasters, electric mixers, ect. Ontarioman is correct in that if you switch off the surge protector, you cut the power. However, things like the time, channel programing, and anything in memory would be lost. Knowing these details is critical once you are off-grid and have to produce every watt yourself!
Michael


----------



## Gary in ohio (May 11, 2002)

Just about anything with a remote control will ahve a phantom load. Many wall warts chargers will draw power even if nothing is plugged into the charge side. EVERY GFI outlet draws power (about 2 watts) even if nothing is plugged into the outlet. Most TV,radio,computers draw power even if not plugged in. Most things with digital clocks have loads when off. Many things with LCD or touch on buttons have phantom loads.

Yes a power strip can shutoff the loads to many devices but some will go into reset mode and loose programming information if you do.


----------



## SolarGary (Sep 8, 2005)

ridethatpony said:


> so do I understand this correctly;
> appliances are using electricity when they are plugged in, but not running?
> 
> So if the cell phone charger is disconnected from the phone but still plugged in, there is a waste of energy?
> ...


Hi,
The best way to find phantom loads is to get a Kill-A-Watt meter -- it will measure the phantom load for anything that plugs into the wall.

They vary a lot:
We found on small, portable TV that was using 10 watts all the time -- 90 KWH a year. 

A lot of newer devices are pretty good -- less than a watt.

The DVRs (TIVO and the like) that record TV programs on an internal hard disk are terrible. Mine uses 53 watts all the time. It actually uses more power than my refrigerator. Still trying to figure out what to do about it, since if you unplug it, you lose the ability to record programs.

Even things like electric door bells use a little power all the time.

While its not exactly a phantom load, Radon mitigation systems that use fans consume a lot of power -- some up to 1200 KWH a year. While you can't turn this off, its possible to look into a passive system or a smaller fan.

Gary


----------



## Jack in VA (Jul 24, 2003)

I have a TV, a DVD player and a stereo receiver on one power strip. Together they read 20 watts when off.


----------



## canfossi (Sep 18, 2005)

I have as little as possibly draining my solar system. Water softener, boiler and internet (satellite) receiver drain a bit while off. I haven't check the drain with a volt meter, though I turn my power bar off on the computer when the computer isn't being used. Chris


----------



## mightybooboo (Feb 10, 2004)

SolarGary said:


> Hi,
> 
> The DVRs (TIVO and the like) that record TV programs on an internal hard disk are terrible. Mine uses 53 watts all the time. It actually uses more power than my refrigerator. Still trying to figure out what to do about it, since if you unplug it, you lose the ability to record programs.


My Dish TV box uses 18 watts,on or off.


----------

