# Frustrated and Puzzled...Help?



## redgate (Sep 18, 2008)

Bear with me as I describe our experience so far, in the hopes some of you can help with our bee situation...

We got into bees 2 years ago. We started with 4 clean, hardy, healthy, and fairly strong from the high-altitude plains of eastern CO. As best we could tell, the bees were mutt crosses and came in an array of colors. One hive, the strongest and healthiest by far, was also the most aggressive by far. After a harsh CO winter, we lost 2 of the 4 hives, but with supplemental feeding managed to keep the other 2 going (including the strongest one). Due to the short summer and nectar/pollen seasons in CO, we decided to let them focus on building up their stores that first summer. We also bought 2 packages our first spring to try to replace the colonies we lost. 

We didn't harvest any honey that first year, letting them keep it all for the second winter. In the mean time, we caught a swarm from our strongest hive, re-hived it, giving us 5 hives all total. The second winter was a rough one for bees. After the frost, we had unusually warm weather, in the 60's most of the time through November and early December, followed by 6 weeks of bitter cold and snow. Of course, the warm snap coupled with the lack of pollen and nectar, meant the bees were still rearing brood and eating through their winter stores. By the time the cold snap came around, we didn't realize how low their stores had gotten. When we were finally able to check the hives in February, we had lost 2 to starvation and 1 to unknown reasons. That left us with 2 decent hives (the aggressive original and a split off that hive from the swarm we caught). That second spring (2013), we sold off the original due to the aggression, and moved the split with us (not as aggressive) to IL. We moved in mid-May. 

The hive exploded with the sudden pollen and nectar in this climate. I tried my best to keep the brood nest open, keep new boxes on the hive, etc. During one of my inspections in July, I found 4 swarm cells. I wound up making another huge mistake. Trying to prevent a swarm, I immediately split the hive. I realized only later that the swarm cells were supersedure cells for the queen I had left in the original hive. It all seemed to work out, thankfully, more supersedure cells were made, and I wound up with what seemed to be 2 good hives. 

Around mid-August, though, the bees started acting strange. Despite keeping the brood nest open and giving plenty of space, I found new swarm cells (reproductive type on the bottom of frame) each time I checked them. Earlier in the season, the queens were usually in the bottom 2 boxes, but by the end of summer, they were consistently in the third box. Then, in September, I found what appeared to be a small swarm leaving the hive. It was about the size of a baseball, and it made no sense. I called a local bee expert, and he claimed a lot of beekeepers in the area were reporting similar occurences. He suggested I destroy the swarm queen and put the workers back in the hive. I attempted to do so, but couldn't find a queen in the swarm, and they all seemed to go back to the hive when I disturbed them. Finally, throughout all this, the frantic building of comb and production of honey that was happening in early summer seemed to stop by August. I have had no increase in quantity since. 

Now, here I am in mid-October. I still have 2 hives, both queens seem to be fairly strong, but I fear both hives are too weak for winter. Over the summer, I gave both hives 5 medium, 10 frame boxes (I can't lift the heavy deeps, so we only use mediums even for the brood chambers). They never did build up in the top 2, so with cold weather on its way, I removed the top 2 boxes from each hive today. 

Upon inspection of the other 3, the original hive we moved from CO showed a laying queen (I found eggs and larvae), and I think enough workers to make a basketball-size cluster. The bottom box seemed to be mostly unused, the middle box had the queen, the brood, some bee-bread, and 2 frames full of honey, and the third box had about 4 frames full of capped honey and other frames with sections of uncapped honey. In addition, I found a total of 3 hive beetles and 2 varroa mites on bees. I also found several uncapped brood chambers with almost fully formed bees, but they were still solid white and appeared dead. 

The newer hive also had a laying queen, with about a soccer-ball size cluster of bees. The bottom box was empty, the middle box also had all the activity, and the third box had 2 frames of capped honey, and very little of anything else. In addition, I found 20-30 hive beetles crawling around, about 15 varroa mites on bees, more of the uncapped, almost fully formed, seemingly dead, white brood, as well as several fully formed brood that appeared to be hatching out of the cell, but there appeared to be more dead than alive and chewing their way out. 

Otherwise, there were no other signs of sick bees. Their wings looked good, most did not have mites, no signs of brood diseases, and so forth. Just very small hives with little brood and small stores for winter. 

That all being said, after 2 summers now with no honey harvest, we are puzzled as to why. First question...what do I do right now to prepare these hives for winter? Are they OK at that size, or should I combine them? One hive appears to need at least 2 boxes for winter, but the newer hive would probably fair better with one. Is this OK to do? Right now, both have 3 boxes. Should I feed them now? Based on photos I have seen, the SHB and VM populations don't seem to be anything the bees can't handle. Is that a safe assumption? For the record, we used screened bottom boards, hives are off the ground on metal stands, and we use natural cell. Finally, can someone please explain, overall, what is going on with my bees? Why aren't they preparing more stores? Why are they swarming despite open brood nests and plenty of boxes? I have read my books over and over, and just can't seem to figure out what I'm doing wrong. Any thoughts would be greatly appreciated. :shrug:

Thanks in advance!


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## alleyyooper (Apr 22, 2005)

I would start feeding syrup and make up candy boards for the winter ASAP.

The queen cells are hard to explain but the queens that are in todays packages leave a lot to be disired. I've heard over and over again of colonies makeing superceduer cells in a colony from a package.

Why no stores now can be explained her in this area by all the rain. Rain washes the necter from the plants of really dulate it. It takes 3 days to get the nectar back but in 3 days it rained again. Not much out there for the bees when that keep happening. 
Then here it finally started to dry out and the rain wasn't as often. Golden rod just came in bloom and dryed out very fast because we didn't get the moisture.
It takes moisture to get necter but to much and you don't have any either

If you get a aggressive colony you need to find the queen and step on her. Then you can install a new queen from a quailty queen breeder or allow them to make a new queen from the eggs but keep in mind those eggs have the same traits as the now dead queen and may be as mean as the old queen.

I have a post here about cell punch queen rearing. It is one of the easiest ways to raise queens from your stock that is gentil.

 Al


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## TxGypsy (Nov 23, 2006)

I would suggest getting new queens from a local beekeeper with gentle stock. Possibly your current stock is not acclimating to the different climate.

Not sure about the dead brood if you are positive you don't have any disease. I'd open up some of the cells and examine the dead brood closely. Post pictures here if you can get some and we might be able to be more helpful.

I agree with alleyyooper. The large amount of rain we had this summer is the likely cause of the small amount of honey produced.


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