# what exactly is super fatting and lye discount?



## InHisName (Jan 26, 2006)

I have a fuzzy idea of superfatting- is it adding extra fats at trace? and not sure what lye discount is- every time I make a batch, there is something new to be learned!


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## Madfarmer (Mar 22, 2008)

Superfatting simply means that the amount of lye in your soap is not enough to saponify all the oil. So there is some amount of leftover fat. The idea is that this makes a milder, more moisturizing soap. You should always put your recipe through a lye calculator, such as the one at thesage.com or soapcalc. It will tell you the range of superfatting for the amount of lye you use.

Madfarmer


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## InHisName (Jan 26, 2006)

having just made soap with the soapcalc, and not quite fully understanding the green box
that has a 5 in it automatically for superfat, (left it alone) would that mean my recipe I punched in would automatically give me a 5% superfatted recipe? (does that make sense?!) If I leave that 5 in there, should I not add in a bit of lanolin or such at trace? Also, Steph, I believe, said in another thread that the lye discount should be %7 for a very mild soap, should I change the 5 to 7? Thanks for the help!


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## linn (Jul 19, 2005)

Yes, if you want a five percent discount leave the 5 in the box. If you add lanolin at trace without including it in soapcalc then your soap will have a higher percent of superfatting. Five percent superfatting is the norm, that is the reason the 5 is in the box, but you can change it to 6 or 7 if you wish. Soapcalc will automatically figure the amounts of each fat or oil to give you that percent of superfatting.


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## Step (Aug 4, 2005)

You might want to use Mystic Mountain Sage Lye Calculator http://www.thesage.com/calcs/lyecalc2.php It is a lot less confusing, especially as a new soap maker, and, it also lists the percentages of lye discounts from 1-10%, after the oils have been calculated in one column. 

Since my digital scale only goes to .05, often times my lye discount percentage falls in between a 6-7% or 7-8%. 

As an example:
For 89.2 ounces of oils, 
7% lye discount calls for 12.37 oz of lye. 
8% lye discount calls for 12.24 oz of lye.

If I want my soap to be approximately 8%, then I'll add 12.25 (not 12.24) oz of lye. Or, 12.35 (not 12.37) oz of lye for 7%. 

Initially, I believe superfatting meant adding more oils at or after trace. However, it's a term that seems to have taken on another life with the lye discount. Perhaps someone else has another opinion about this.


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## InHisName (Jan 26, 2006)

Then we need to be careful about adding fats at trace if we have used the discount, right? Or add grapefruit seed extract, would that help? (notice in all Susan Cavitch recipes, she includes it) Is vit E as good as grapefruit seed? 
About digital scales- I was looking at them at Brambleberry's- can someone suggest one that is sufficient but wont break the bank? Seems one with both grams and oz would be good- I have a legal oz one, but not digital. 
Do you all sell your soaps?


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## Madfarmer (Mar 22, 2008)

I got my scale from oldwillknott.com. Good selection, reasonable price, fast shipping.

Madfarmer


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## InHisName (Jan 26, 2006)

Step, What on your scale goes to .05? When looking into a new scale, what are the things needed for soap making? (looking at oldknothill now)


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## linn (Jul 19, 2005)

InHisName said:


> Then we need to be careful about adding fats at trace if we have used the discount, right? Or add grapefruit seed extract, would that help? (notice in all Susan Cavitch recipes, she includes it) Is vit E as good as grapefruit seed?
> About digital scales- I was looking at them at Brambleberry's- can someone suggest one that is sufficient but wont break the bank? Seems one with both grams and oz would be good- I have a legal oz one, but not digital.
> Do you all sell your soaps?


If you want to superfat, I would adjust the percent in the superfat box. That way you will be sure of the amounts of fats and oils you should add. I think Vit. E is cheaper at Walmart and it works to help keep the unspanofied fats in your soap from going rancid. I have used grapefruit seed extract in the past, but I now use a few drops of Vit. E 
Here is another link explaning the difference between Vit. E, Grapefruit seed extract and Rosemary Extract.

http://www.snowdriftfarm.com/askthechemist.html


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## Step (Aug 4, 2005)

I have an Escali Scale... and it's capable to weigh up to 11 pounds. I use the scale for a lot of things.. 

I paid less than $25 several years ago and it's still working fine and probably would buy another when this one broke. However, I would definitely buy one that the 'automatic' shut off could be ->>> turned off <<<- The problem with automatic shut-off is; if you take too many seconds to add more onto the scale, it shuts itself off!! Not necessarily a problem, as long as I know the weight of the container so when I re-weigh, I can subtract it to get the correct total weight of my ingredients. 

Whatever scale you do choose, it should have the option to weigh in grams, pounds or ounces. I don't use the pounds or grams setting very often, but I do use them. 

The .05 would be a fraction of an ounce... The ounce reading on the scale says 0.00.... so if I have a fraction less than a pound.. it would read: 15.95 (.05) ounces, as my scale does. Some scales might read, 15.97 and others would round it off to 16.0

As far as Vit. E... In the info I provided on the other thread, it discusses the half affects of the synthetic Vit. E. A few years ago, I 'had' to change all my oils due to ingredients used in their manufacture, not listed, which as it turned out was exactly what was getting me sick! A very costly situation, not only with money tied up in ingredients I'd already purchased, and then needing immediate replacement, but with my health as well. 

The Vit. E I now use is 100% natural as are all my other ingredients, with the exception of my fragrance oils, which I use in 'drops' not ounces, and even at that, infrequently to round off a scent made with Essential Oils. Now, when I purchase new fragrance oils, I only buy those that are Phthalate free. 

Certainly oils purchased locally make a better soap than commercial soap.. but, if you or anyone else has heightened sensitivities.. these commercially manufactured ingredients are still containing solvents, preservatives and synthetics. 

The link I posted with reference to Vit. E, at the "preservative" thread was written by two renowned scientists.. a very short biography of each author follows: 

Victor R. Preedy, Phd. DSC, FIBiol FRCPath is a Reader of Clinical Biochemistry King's College, University of London and is on the Editorial Advisory Boards of 5 scientfic Journals, is an international expert and has published more than 450 books and articles.

Ronald Ross Watson, PhD, initiated and directed the National Institute of Alcohol Abuse and Alcohilism, and is a Professor at the Alcohol Research Center at the University of Arizone College of Medicine

There isn't a day that I don't learn something new about nutrition science, which also encompasses ingredients used in soap and today is no different. 

Before I made my first batch of soap, I joined about 14 soaping forums and read! Members of those forums tell you ingredients they've tried, share recipes and opinions. From there I researched oils, butters, all additives including colorants, scents, botanicals. And from that I researched % of those ingredients to add to get the best end results, including reducing the chance for DOS. All this information is available online and have never bought a soapmaking book. Miller's site is exceptional! But it's my understanding that Susan Cavitch is another story. One of those forums was to make Cream Soap and the resident expert who gave successful detailed instruction, had to reformulate each of Cavitch's recipes because none of them worked. 

Recently, as a result of this Vit. E issue I came across chemical information that says.... adding Rosemary used as a preservative is even better than Vit. E. I use Rosemary tea and EO as a scent, but for preservation I'm more inclined to use clay and freshly ground spices. However, I also Hot Process all my soap which makes adding ingredients at the end, easier and doesn't compromise their nutritional properties (which is why I add them to begin with).

By the time I made my first batch of soap, I formulated my oils from what I learned, and to date, have never used anyone elses recipes. Hot Processing my soap allows me to test the soap immediately after it's made and before I add scents, colors and botanicals. If a soap doesn't 'feel' the way I expect, I make the correction with the oils by superfatting no more than 1 ounce of oil per pound of combined oils. 

The process of making soap is a chemical reaction! But making soap is a creative expression that's fun, therapeutic and can be addicting! I'm still in awe of the lather my soap creates. But, most of all, handmade soap has done wonders for my aging skin and is a necessary part of what I have to do to stay feeling 'healthy'.


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## MullersLaneFarm (Jul 23, 2004)

Superfatting & lye discount

I love this page for explaining this:

http://www.canis-art.com/soaping.htm


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## InHisName (Jan 26, 2006)

thanks! saved to favorites-


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