# Hoarding Laws



## Chuck-prime (Jul 24, 2007)

Talked to an aquaintance I haven't seen for some time, he told me the gov now has hoarding laws.

In other words, it's against the law to 'hoard.' Whatever that means.


Does anyone know anything about this? Is this Federal, or state to state?


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## Hillbillybob (Jul 30, 2007)

This might help you somewhat.

http://members.aol.com/poesgirl/storing.html

Hillbillybob


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## Kmac15 (May 19, 2007)

well if it comes to that I have one weeks worth for me, DH,DS,DM, DF, sis, BIL, other sis, nephew, elderly neighbor, only all these people don't know it.

Never show your preps....nothing to see here, move on.


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## PyroDon (Jul 30, 2006)

Hillbillybob said:


> This might help you somewhat.
> 
> http://members.aol.com/poesgirl/storing.html
> 
> Hillbillybob


And that doesn't hold a candle to whats been enacted since 2001


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## Hillbillybob (Jul 30, 2007)

PyroDon said:


> And that doesn't hold a candle to whats been enacted since 2001


I had this handy.
It's hard to get everything that has been enacted since 2001.
Hillbillybob


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## AngieM2 (May 10, 2002)

No one here would hoard, now would they? Just having a pantry like great granny did.

Angie


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## PyroDon (Jul 30, 2006)

Hillbillybob said:


> I had this handy.
> It's hard to get everything that has been enacted since 2001.
> Hillbillybob


true enough sorry wasnt meant to be confrontational


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## hunter63 (Jan 4, 2005)

Hoarding, what hoarding? Don't know nothing about no hoarding................


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## Hillbillybob (Jul 30, 2007)

PyroDon said:


> true enough sorry wasnt meant to be confrontational


No offence was taken. I was just committing back that it is very hard to find all the new rules and regs. the way they have been spread around over the last few years. Should be able to find in one place but two wide spread out I think to hide all the new laws.

Hillbillybob


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## Guest (Oct 10, 2007)

This junk again. 

One more time. A closed mouth gathers no government busybodies.

A president can make an Executive Order decreeing anything he pleases anytime he please so there's no use in wringing your hands over this junk. If and when the deal ever goes down the government will do as it please just as it has always done. People will continue to store food against need just as they have always done.

A closed mouth gathers no government busybodies.

.....Alan.


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## sgl42 (Jan 20, 2004)

AngieM2 said:


> No one here would hoard, now would they? Just having a pantry like great granny did.


  

Me, I'm not hoarding, I performing scientific experiments on packaging techniques. 

or, Just stocking up for my new job as a Sumo wrestler!

[reminds me of i think it was Dick Proenneke of "Alone in the Wilderness," who built a log cabin on national park land. 
when the ranger discovered it, the ranger said "we only gave you a permit for cutting firewood, not construction." 
"well, does it matter how I stack it?  
he got away with it.]

--sgl


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## Chuck-prime (Jul 24, 2007)

hunter63 said:


> Hoarding, what hoarding? Don't know nothing about no hoarding................



...you must be planting trees in those holes in your backyard...


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## Chuck-prime (Jul 24, 2007)

sgl42 said:


> Me, I'm not hoarding, I performing scientific experiments on packaging techniques.
> 
> or, Just stocking up for my new job as a Sumo wrestler!
> 
> --sgl


Careful. If we ever run out of canned food, vegetables, fruits, deer, rabbit...and all we had left was barbacue sauce...


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## Chuck-prime (Jul 24, 2007)

A.T. Hagan said:


> This junk again.
> 
> One more time. A closed mouth gathers no government busybodies.
> 
> ...


How in the world are you going to explain that oversized rooster when they knock on your door?


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## Guest (Oct 10, 2007)

Chuck-prime said:


> How in the world are you going to explain that oversized rooster when they knock on your door?


 They are my goverment busybody disposal system.  

.....Alan.


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## Colorado (Aug 19, 2005)

Hoarding is buying up when in short supply more than needed at the time. 

Stocking your cellar and pantry is something else. 

Saving gas by not going to town. Some places if you do not stock up when you go to the city you will do with out. Little town where maybe I will move in time does not have things I need. When that long trip to city would have to stock up to have it. Buy on sales to save money. They are trying to get you to buy the stuff.


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## krondor2 (May 28, 2007)

i thought that hoarding is legal in parts of nevada?


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## Grace&Violets (Apr 4, 2007)

Colorado said:


> Hoarding is buying up when in short supply more than needed at the time.
> 
> Stocking your cellar and pantry is something else.
> 
> Saving gas by not going to town. Some places if you do not stock up when you go to the city you will do with out. Little town where maybe I will move in time does not have things I need. When that long trip to city would have to stock up to have it. Buy on sales to save money. They are trying to get you to buy the stuff.



I have a feeling that nobody is going to care _when _you bought something, only that you _have _more than they feel you should have, and are therefore hoarding.


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## uyk7 (Dec 1, 2002)

"i thought that hoarding is legal in parts of nevada?"

Didn't they just put the ranch on the market or was it sold? LOL


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## suburbanite (Jul 27, 2006)

Psst--its not a rooster, its a velociraptor.


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## Colorado (Aug 19, 2005)

Grace&Violets, You could be right. During WWII and rationing, you could can all you wanted but no sugar much. I do not remember how hard it was to get lids, mom used the zinc lid and jar rubbers back then. They would issue you a little extra sugar for canning. You could have your own meat and canned stuff. They tried to get all to have a victory garden. We had chickens and were living on edge of Denver during most of that time. Not much garden. I have seen times here I could not buy canning lids. 60's . 

I had a pen pal in Ireland after WWII and she said they had to turn in their eggs. Could only keep so many. Things can happen , I know. 

I can remember lumber was on prioity. My dad ran a small saw mill and was not under that law as so little lumber to sell. 

Yeah, you buy up a lot and fill a ware house and things go bad yeah, I think they could/would go after you if they find out. Black marketing is sure out.


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## Guest (Oct 12, 2007)

All nations and governments have established this law since time began. Anytime there's a war the military can seize all that you've got to suppliment their needs. Including using your place as a headquarter of some sort. In past history, they would take all your food and clothing and any healthy male members.


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## Guest (Oct 12, 2007)

Grace&Violets said:


> I have a feeling that nobody is going to care _when _you bought something, only that you _have _more than they feel you should have, and are therefore hoarding.


 And there you have it in a nutshell.

All the rest is just hand wringing that serves no useful purpose.

It really does not matter what the law does or does not say, does it? If there was an Executive Order that explicitly forbade keeping more than two weeks worth of food in your home would you obey it?

A closed mouth gathers no government busybodies.

The manpower that would be necessary for the government (federal, state, local) to police how much food you have in your home would be so large as to make the entire proposition highly unlikely. Unless you were doing something stupid like bragging to friends and neighbors how much food you had in your home. Or if you were trying to make a killing in the black market or by trying to profiteer scarce supplies. Those are just the kinds of things to bring the man down on your neck.

A closed mouth gathers no government busybodies. 

If you acquired your stuff before food or whatever became scarce when few people would notice or care and don't try to take more than your fair share of whatever there is after things get scarce who is going to know what you've got?

.....Alan.


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## Ernie (Jul 22, 2007)

I'm not sure what the hoarding laws are about. I find it's best just to keep quiet about it. When you consider it, there's probably twelve felonies we commit on a daily basis and simply don't know about it. They have laws for everything now.


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## YuccaFlatsRanch (May 3, 2004)

And the best use for NAIS - to tell the Feds and Staties exactly what you have and where it is.


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## MELOC (Sep 26, 2005)

r.h. in okla. said:


> All nations and governments have established this law since time began. Anytime there's a war the military can seize all that you've got to suppliment their needs. Including using your place as a headquarter of some sort. In past history, they would take all your food and clothing and any healthy male members.


they can take anything they want, but i am keeping the male member!


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## Cheryl in SD (Apr 22, 2005)

You should have a three month supply on hand. I heard it on the Science channel. They said the gov't recommends everyone have 3 months. They don't say how many SETS of three you need, I guess that's up to you. Personally, we have 7 people here, I was thinking 7 sets of 3 just to to be safe and follow orders. If anyone asks, it's 3 months, just like the gov't told me to. :angel:


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## Guest (Jan 18, 2008)

Bump.

.....Alan.


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## tab (Aug 20, 2002)

I can show you a true hoarder, lives in Grade 4 Squalor. Ewww....
I have to follow the link and see what else I can read that will keep me awake tonight  
Seriously, with the satellite capabilities and the search capabilities, I sometimes wonder about even postiing here. And to think I just downloaded a manual for emergenycy medicine


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## tab (Aug 20, 2002)

Yup, I am staying awake tonight.
This makes a lot of other pieces of information I have gathered over the last few years fall into place, a very dark place. It also explains some of the threads here.
Thanks for bumping this one.


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## Gideon (Sep 15, 2005)

Kmac, if you have a weeks worth I am coming to your house to help you keep from violating the law.  "Ain't got no stinkin food"--where are my food stamps, gub housing, need help with my electric bil, and money for school lunchs. wc


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## Mike in Ohio (Oct 29, 2002)

Well after reading this thread I just want to proclaim that I have never whored in my life.


Mike


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## diane (May 4, 2002)

Mike in Ohio said:


> Well after reading this thread I just want to proclaim that I have never whored in my life.
> 
> 
> Mike


 :rotfl:


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## AngieM2 (May 10, 2002)

Mike in Ohio said:


> Well after reading this thread I just want to proclaim that I have never whored in my life.
> 
> 
> Mike



I wondered about this, until I read the whole thread again. 
Oh my....
Such clever people with words.

Angie


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## Spinner (Jul 19, 2003)

Don't the hoarding laws only pertain to store bought goods? 

If you have thousands of jars of home canned food it's not hoarding.
If you have thousands of cans of store bought food it would be hoarding.

A large stock of any store bought item would be considered hoarding. 

Maybe I am way off base here, but that's how I understand the hoarding laws.


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## YuccaFlatsRanch (May 3, 2004)

There are executive orders that deal with hoarding and I think you find them among the ones that deal with FEMA.


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## Cyngbaeld (May 20, 2004)

I expect that any interpretation of "anti-hoarding laws" will depend on who is "enforcing" those laws. I still will continue to prep because it is really not too likely any .gov type people are going to show up here wanting to requisition my "hoarded supplies". I also won't let the neighbors see what I have, nor do I talk about prepping locally.


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## Jim-mi (May 15, 2002)

So if you have a big bunch of jackboots decending on you proclaiming that you are "hoarding" . . .it might be better for your health to not draw down on them.

Would be interesting watching those jboots confronting the Mormon folks about their full pantrys

yup . .a good time tobe . . quiet.......


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## Guest (Jan 21, 2008)

The hoarding laws pertain to whatever the man with the gun says they pertain to. He may or may not have a badge or a military rank. It really doesn't matter.

It has been this way since the beginning of time and likely always will be.

.....Alan.


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## donsgal (May 2, 2005)

Chuck-prime said:


> Talked to an aquaintance I haven't seen for some time, he told me the gov now has hoarding laws.
> 
> In other words, it's against the law to 'hoard.' Whatever that means.
> 
> ...


So are "they" going to prosecute the entire Church of Jesus Christ of Later Day Saints? As I seem to recall, (I could be wrong), that each family tries to keep three years supply of food. 

donsgal


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## tab (Aug 20, 2002)

After reading the info on the above provided link, it seems that it is most anything, food, communictions, property, your family, life, etc., that is covered under a potential or current excutive order. It really isn't going to matter if this happens to everyone if it happens to YOU (or me).
Many of EOs listed on that page are things we covered in Social Studies class in school.


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## Corky (May 11, 2002)

Even the government says you should stock up.

Just don't go in the store when a hurricane is comming and buy up everything and not let others get some too. Thats hoarding.
Stocking up a little at a time is buying. That is good for the economy.


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## hintonlady (Apr 22, 2007)

I would never hoarde.

I have every confidence that my elected officials have my best interests in mind.

I also have every confidence that FEMA will respond IMMEDIATELY and ADEQUATELY in a time of emergency.

Why on earth would anyone want to horde??


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## AngieM2 (May 10, 2002)

hintonlady said:


> I would never hoarde.
> 
> I have every confidence that my elected officials have my best interests in mind.
> 
> ...



I totally believe you.


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## Windy in Kansas (Jun 16, 2002)

Colorado said:


> Hoarding is buying up when in short supply more than needed at the time.
> 
> Stocking your cellar and pantry is something else.


I have just checked several reputable dictionaries and find that they don't all show the same meaning for the word hoard. Most do however mention hidden, secret, or concealed when trying to define hoard or hoarding. None mention acquiring during a time of short supply. 

Being prepared or hoading--seems to be a fine line and with a different thought by each individual.


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## YuccaFlatsRanch (May 3, 2004)

"each family tries to keep three years supply of food."

Nope - Church preaches one year, but three years is good.

The laws that are most applicable are the Executive orders that establish rules for FEMA. Its one of the reasons I so dislike NAIS. My animals are part of my food storage - NAIS just tells FEMA where they are and what kind they are so they can be rounded up easily for redistribution to the masses.

Here are the Fema Related Executive Orders:

First is from Executive Orders in place dating back to 1939 which Clinton has grouped together under one order, EO #12919 released on June 6, 1994. The following EOs all fall under EO#12919:

10995--Federal seizure of all communications media in the US; 
10997--Federal seizure of all electric power, fuels, minerals, public and private; 
10998--Federal seizure of all food supplies and resources, public and private and all farms and equipment; 
10999--Federal seizure of all means of transportation, including cars, trucks, or vehicles of any kind and total control over all highways, seaports and water ways;
11000--Federal seizure of American people for work forces under federal supervision, including the splitting up of families if the government so desires; 
11001--Federal seizure of all health, education and welfare facilities, both public and private; 
11002--Empowers the Postmaster General to register every single person in the US
11003--Federal seizure of all airports and aircraft; 
11004--Federal seizure of all housing and finances and authority to establish forced relocation. Authority to designate areas to be abandoned as "unsafe," establish new locations for populations, relocate communities, build new housing with public funds; 
11005--Seizure of all railroads, inland waterways and storage facilities, both public and private; 
11051--Provides FEMA complete authorization to put above orders into effect in times of increased international tension of economic or financial crisis (FEMA will be in control incase of "National Emergency").


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## hintonlady (Apr 22, 2007)

YuccaFlatsRanch said:


> "each family tries to keep three years supply of food."
> 
> Nope - Church preaches one year, but three years is good.
> 
> ...


I'm going to have to look that up.

Some of it is pretty scary, some of it is plain disgusting.....especially the part about splitting families.

Where is the order to make the swastika a part of the flag?


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## hintonlady (Apr 22, 2007)

okay, I skimmed over the executive orders.

Here's the thing IMHO. I tend to read a lot into stuff like that so am usually the first to cry foul. I looked at the 3 most offensive to my life orders. 

I didn't find them to be as much of a shock as anticipated. These laws are very vague and obviously set up to manage a MAJOR sized disaster.

I would like to think that these types of actions are reserved for worst case scenario as anything else is just too risky to the American public. In the end we have to trust the government to at least TRY to do the right thing. (abusing these laws would cause widespread dissent and more danger)

Ultimately our opininions as individuals are meaningless. The spirit of these orders are to rebuild a very broken nation. (signed by Kennedy.....)

Yeah it would be bad if they were implemented. We are numbers, small insignificant members of a herd that must go on, with or without us individuals. Fighting tooth and nail to survive when one can help the community as a whole is an individual choice.

Sacrificing a few for many is a simple tradition. I do it on my farm all the time. There is no place for Ego in times of disaster, like it or not.

I for one would be proud to farm for Uncle Sam and hand everything over except basic foods for my family. I would be proud to help feed this nation in a time of desperation. I wouldn't need them to force me to do that. I would volunteer it. I would stand tall even if a bit leaner.

Likewise, my livestock is set up in categories. Breeding stock and slaughter. Even a government, city raised, pencil pushing monkey would realize you DO NOT slaughter breeding stock if you want to survive. As for slaughter, same as above. If I am fed I can live on another day to do what I do best........

Make food for the masses and raise a family who can continue the habit.

The bankers will have to worry about these laws LONG before hardy homesteaders like us do.............


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## Cyngbaeld (May 20, 2004)

Hon, I don't trust anybody to choose between my breeding stock and what can go to feed "the masses". Don't trust them, no way, no how. I sincerely doubt any person coming around to confiscate my animals is going to bother to leave my breeding stock. Won't matter to them that those may be the last of the breed in existence, especially after some other confiscatory action has taken the breeding stock from my friends. Some of us are trying to revive nearly extinct breeds and have spread the stock to as many breeders as we can, in hopes that one catastrophe won't wipe that breed from the face of the earth.

Nothing personal, I just don't trust the "authorities".


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## tab (Aug 20, 2002)

I did a google search for Executive Order #10998 and have been looking up info. This is some info from one site (I will try to post the address later). These were under "definitions"

a) "Food resources" means all commodities and products, simple, mixed or compound, or complements to such commodities or products, that are capable of being eaten or drunk, by either human beings or animals' irrespective of other uses to which such commodities or products may be. put, at all stages of processing from the raw commodity to the products thereof in vendible form for human or animal consumption. For the purposes of this order the term "food resources" shall also include all starches, sugars, vegetable and animal fats and oils, cotton, tobacco, wool, mohair, hemp, flax fiber, and naval stores, but shall not include any such material after it loses its identity as an agricultural commodity or agricultural product. 

(b) "Farm equipment" means machinery, equipment and repair parts manufactured primarily for use


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## tab (Aug 20, 2002)

http://www.presidency.ucsb.edu/ws/index.php?pid=58936


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## tab (Aug 20, 2002)

http://www.disastercenter.com/laworder/12919.htm

This was EO 12919


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## hintonlady (Apr 22, 2007)

Cyngbaeld said:


> Hon, I don't trust anybody to choose between my breeding stock and what can go to feed "the masses". Don't trust them, no way, no how. I sincerely doubt any person coming around to confiscate my animals is going to bother to leave my breeding stock. Won't matter to them that those may be the last of the breed in existence, especially after some other confiscatory action has taken the breeding stock from my friends. Some of us are trying to revive nearly extinct breeds and have spread the stock to as many breeders as we can, in hopes that one catastrophe won't wipe that breed from the face of the earth.
> 
> Nothing personal, I just don't trust the "authorities".


I can dig that.  

The thing is, in the event something like this could happen (because as always on here we speak in the hypothetical or in theory)

The one who is right has the biggest guns, end of story. I have a self preservation mode that is just fine seeing a "means to an end" even if the means are unpleasant.

Being cooperative or at least looking to be cooperative, when all other reasonable means are exhausted can be another means of preparedness. When the world is starving people such as ourselves who are resourceful and can produce, not just consume will be valuable assets. 

People who only get take out, whine when they have no luxuries etc. will be much lower on "the list" than hardy, resourceful folks such as you and I. Although we could be burdened by beuaracracy they will need people like us to survive themselves. They will need people like us to rebuild a nation, even if it is a mutated one.

As a livestock owner you can at least understand culling weak stock before the hardy, survive on poor pasture stock, no? Same would go for "survivors" of disaster.

Think about it.......who would you want on your side, me/people like us or John/Jane Doe city dweller of convenience and privilige?

I am sure the fat cats will still need to eat and still rather not get dirty. That is our saving grace even when all becomes ugly beyond recognition. Survival isn't always pretty.


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## texican (Oct 4, 2003)

I don't think they'd really want to prosecute you.... cause then they'd have to feed ya...

I think they'd want to just confiscate what you've got... legal thievin with a badge...

I don't hoarde, I store in a time of plenty... 

"Taking" my food is a risky business... as certain items if eaten will most certainly kill you overnight.... ...that is, if the lead don't get the confiscators first....


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## Guest (Jan 22, 2008)

"Might makes right."

"In the face of arms the law is silent."

These are two of the oldest facts of human nature there are.

If there are enough folks out there that want what they think you have then whether by law, by Executive Order, emergency decree, or simple naked force they will have it if you have no way to prevent them from taking it.

A closed mouth gathers no government busybodies.

A closed mouth gathers no folks looking for you to share your wealth with them.

This is one of the most fundamental facts of any kind of preparedness. It always has been and likely always will be.

Wringing your hands over this or that Executive Order, a legal definition of "hoarding" from some place or other that may or may not apply to you, the unknowable decision making of some future emergency management authorities accomplishes nothing more than wasting your time and giving you indigestion. 

Do what you are going to do and if you are concerned that the government, military, zombie mob, or martians are going to take it away from you then keep your mouth shut.

In a time of extreme emergency the man with the gun makes the rules. Period. Stop.

Keep your mouth shut and your profile low and the man with the gun will not have any reason to get into your hair. Make contingency plans in case your primary plan should fail. DO NOT expect the government, the rampaging mob, the zombies, or whatever to play nice just because you bought it all five years ago and can produce receipts or that you produced it all yourself. That world exists only in fairy tales. 

We are survivalists here. Planning for such contingencies is a significant part of what we are about. If you can't deal with this then stop wasting your time and money in preparedness and go back to your television.

.....Alan.


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## Gideon (Sep 15, 2005)

Will have a cache/long term storage class at our spring gathering 4-5-6 April NC/SC SE of Charlotte. Will show how to effectively put up goodies that will last longer than you will live and be viable right on. If you do not have it in your home they cannot take it. Tips on where/how to place them to avoid detection etc. wc


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## diane (May 4, 2002)

So much hand wringing. :baby04: 

Alan said it best. Survivalist survive because they keep their mouth shut and just do what they need to do. Other than one daughter and folks on the forum, NO ONE knows and daughter and you don't know all that much. I am just that eccentric old lady down the street that grows a lot of flowers and waves at everybody as they drive by. :hobbyhors


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## tab (Aug 20, 2002)

I agree with that Alan.  
I have apparently not seen the other info about this under past threads. For me this was more of an eye opener (although it goes along with what I have suspected) and guess I am under the, possibly mistaken, belief that if more people know what is REALLY in place, it will be an eye opener, too. Obviously one will not believe it if one is inclined that way, no matter what eveidence is presented. I am the type of person who wants facts before believeing but also have known to :bdh: I would like to think there are others here that have read this, learned and done some research, maybe getting that little push needed to get off the fence if that is where one is perched. :bash:


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## FourDeuce (Jun 27, 2002)

Most of the Executive Orders they passed were put in place for a plan they called Continuity of Government. Their goal is to make sure the government continues to exist. Of course, that might mean some citizens have to make BIG sacrifices, whether they want to or not, so the government can continue to exist(and to run things). They've built and stocked plenty of shelters for government officials, but, like others have said, stockpiled supplies do run out eventually. :nono: 
They may never use any of those Executive Orders or the other plans they've made, but the fact that they have them available doesn't make me feel very comfortable. I've read enough history to notice the pattern. People who get power often abuse it.


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## Highground (Jan 22, 2003)

Hoarding? We ain't hoarding. We have collections. 
Wife collects food, I collect lead and guns. Now, git!


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## Callieslamb (Feb 27, 2007)

DD was told at college (LDS college) that the govt can't take what you grow yourself-only what you have bought. Doesn't make any sense to me, but certainly something to think about.


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## wogglebug (May 22, 2004)

Callieslamb said:


> DD was told at college (LDS college) that the govt can't take what you grow yourself-only what you have bought.


Now tell that to the nice men seconded from the hick force two counties over, with the city-guy officer whose family is starving RIGHT NOW because they didn't prepare back then - the ones with the guns and no higher authority closer than dozens of miles and several days away. You know, the ones who aren't answerable to local authority? Sure, they're wrong. Your point? They'll have spread your home-canned goods all round the "displaced persons" camp days before you can even reach someone to appeal to, and you won't even get your jars back, let alone a chance to try to salvage the flats.


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## Mike in Ohio (Oct 29, 2002)

wogglebug said:


> Now tell that to the nice men seconded from the hick force two counties over, with the city-guy officer whose family is starving RIGHT NOW because they didn't prepare back then - the ones with the guns and no higher authority closer than dozens of miles and several days away. You know, the ones who aren't answerable to local authority? Sure, they're wrong. Your point? They'll have spread your home-canned goods all round the "displaced persons" camp days before you can even reach someone to appeal to, and you won't even get your jars back, let alone a chance to try to salvage the flats.


Unless the person chooses to appeal to Barret, Browning, Uzi or Kalashnikov.


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## hintonlady (Apr 22, 2007)

Callieslamb said:


> DD was told at college (LDS college) that the govt can't take what you grow yourself-only what you have bought. Doesn't make any sense to me, but certainly something to think about.



In a legal sense (while ignoring other situations since they were covered)

Perhaps it is because that which we produce (and I assume do not remove from the food supply chain; ie farmers with large acerage) does not hurt nor "take away" from other people.

Going to the store for extreme sized purchases when a supply is limited may be in the same ugly realm as price gouging after disaster.

Just a guess.

Still thinking about the "nasty sherrif from a township over" and my canned goods though.........Not sure how far a case of my strawberry preserves will go. my DH eats it like it's going out of style.


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## whiterock (Mar 26, 2003)

Callieslamb said:


> DD was told at college (LDS college) that the govt can't take what you grow yourself-only what you have bought. Doesn't make any sense to me, but certainly something to think about.



Probably has to do with the fact that it is HOME canned and not done under govt. regs.

Ed


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## Morning Owl (Oct 13, 2005)

texican said:


> "Taking" my food is a risky business... as certain items if eaten will most certainly kill you overnight.... ...that is, if the lead don't get the confiscators first....


This made me think, very interesting idea. Would you be willing to elaborate on this? 

Morning Owl


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## tab (Aug 20, 2002)

I second what MO is asking Texican, wondered anout that, too. Also, if Gideon wants to post some of the ides from the conference it'd be great.


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## Guest (Jan 24, 2008)

Morning Owl said:


> This made me think, very interesting idea. Would you be willing to elaborate on this?
> 
> Morning Owl


 Those kinds of ideas are tragedies waiting to happen when they go awry.

.....Alan.


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## YuccaFlatsRanch (May 3, 2004)

Could it be that they can't be sure that home canned was processed correctly. In fact they probably would let people starve rather than utilize home canned - even if you wanted to give it to them.

We had a local flood and FEMA insisted that people throw away canned goods that had been exposed to the flood waters. Now if the the cans were still good, what possible harm could the flood waters have caused the canned food inside. I would have thoroughly washed the cans with bleach water and dried them and re-mineral oiled them and back into storage they would go.


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## hintonlady (Apr 22, 2007)

Depending on how desperate the times are you would be surprised what "they" allow people to eat.............


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## OneCrazyRat (Sep 12, 2007)

Highground said:


> Hoarding? We ain't hoarding. We have collections.
> Wife collects food, I collect lead and guns. Now, git!


I agree! I don't think there any hoarding or whording here. Now if big brother is looking for acts of hoarding....What's up with Fort Knox and where did all the gold go? Yea, they're gonna charge us for felony possession of 2 cases of Ramen noodles with the intent to distribute. We'll be charged for two life sentances to run concurrently without the possibility of parole while child molesters and rapist are wondering in and out every other year.

I better hide my collection of politician voodoo dolls! LOL!


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## oldgaredneck (Jan 2, 2007)

Gideon said:


> Kmac, if you have a weeks worth I am coming to your house to help you keep from violating the law.  "Ain't got no stinkin food"--where are my food stamps, gub housing, need help with my electric bil, and money for school lunchs. wc


Boy, do we KNOW that situation!!!! :help: :help: :help:


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## oldgaredneck (Jan 2, 2007)

Gives a new "spin" to SSS - Store, Save, Shutup.....


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## RockyGlen (Jan 19, 2007)

I asked a close friend who is LDS if they knew of any hoarding laws. She said that her ward (and they are all different in how much they teach or preach food storage) recommends that you re-can anything you buy into your own jars, because the government will not take them. She hides her rice and pasta, and spices in a very creative way, and cans everything else. She said she even buys the big #10 cans of fruit, tomato paste, etc. and then re-cans them. She said the only thing that does not work is peas and green beans - you have to buy frozen to get away with doing that. She even cans her dried beans - says it makes it more convenient to use them, too.

Sounds like a lot of work to me, but if the SHTF and I suspect they'll be looking for supplies, I do have enough jars to start canning.


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## hintonlady (Apr 22, 2007)

RockyGlen said:


> I asked a close friend who is LDS if they knew of any hoarding laws. She said that her ward (and they are all different in how much they teach or preach food storage) recommends that you re-can anything you buy into your own jars, because the government will not take them. She hides her rice and pasta, and spices in a very creative way, and cans everything else. She said she even buys the big #10 cans of fruit, tomato paste, etc. and then re-cans them. She said the only thing that does not work is peas and green beans - you have to buy frozen to get away with doing that. She even cans her dried beans - says it makes it more convenient to use them, too.
> 
> Sounds like a lot of work to me, but if the SHTF and I suspect they'll be looking for supplies, I do have enough jars to start canning.


That all sounds really nice and I wish I could believe it would go down like that.

Problem is we would need to consider just how awful, in the worst way things would have to be for a governement agency to have to enact hoarding rules.

Worse yet, if they felt compelled to confiscate goods...........

In that SHTF situation I have a hard time imagining a large pantry of home canned goods wouldn't get some unwanted attention.


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## MarleneS (Aug 21, 2003)

I'm not sure I'd ever say that the government would never do a certain thing. The phrase "politically expedient" comes to mind. During WWII they took the Japanese-Americans and locked them up in camps. During Katrina they confiscated legal firearms from private citizens.
Even if they apologize later, that won't do much good if they take something you need to survive. :nono:
FourDeuce


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## Junkman (Dec 17, 2005)

O. K. I admit, I have been hoarding. Every time I clean the manure out of the barn and shed I have been hiding it behind the barn for the garden. I am probably on some satelite picture somewhere adding to my pile. Life is getting scary!


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## Junkman (Dec 17, 2005)

MarleneS said:


> I'm not sure I'd ever say that the government would never do a certain thing. The phrase "politically expedient" comes to mind. During WWII they took the Japanese-Americans and locked them up in camps. During Katrina they confiscated legal firearms from private citizens.
> Even if they apologize later, that won't do much good if they take something you need to survive. :nono:
> FourDeuce


This may be gossip, but I read or heard somewhere that during Katrina that farm tractors were commandered for use in moving things and the farmers
never got them back. Is there any truth to this? Jklady


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## Hip_Shot_Hanna (Apr 2, 2005)

Just to address a couple of things in this thread.


> Someone said that they felt that breeding stock would be left, as you can't make more stock without them.





> Someone asked if farmers ever got their tractors back after Katrina.





> Someone said that if you prep, keep your mouth shut.


Here is the true story about what happened to my grandparents during WWII.

My grandfather was a poor farmer, with one horse he used for plowing. Yes, some folks couldn't afford tractors back then you know.

My mother was probably about six at the time, she was born in 1935, and she remembers what happened one day after the U.S. joined the war.

Her dad got a telephone call from a neighbor asking him to meet him in town - she doesn't remember or may have never been told what the reason was.

*After he left* - Government men came and took that horse. My grandmother ran out and tried to stop then, crying and telling them that was all that they had to farm with, and couldn't do without it. They ignored her.
The horse, or a replacement, was never returned to them.

My grandparents were so poor that my grandmother didn't have a decent coat and had to wear my grand dad's underwear when she went to town. You are not talking about taking *surplus*.

That was back when the government was more benign than it is now. Draw your own conclusions.


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## Corky (May 11, 2002)

If that happened in this country then it was not really government that took it but thiefs that were working with the person that set up the theft.


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## texican (Oct 4, 2003)

Morning Owl said:


> This made me think, very interesting idea. Would you be willing to elaborate on this?
> 
> Morning Owl


Under certain scenarios, (not just your run of the mill shtf, like we had with dislocated Gulf Coastians, during Hurricane Rita), like a big shtf, and TEOTW is in sight, and rural folks are finding themselves overwhelmed with well armed ravinging urbanites, I'd doctor some of my 'show' food. 

Hopefully, I'd never get hit. But hope don't fill the belly on a cold night, so I'd be prepared. I've got a dozen jars right now on my shelf that would at the least sicken you, if you ate them. You couldn't pay me to eat them now, even if I were starving... the risk is too great. If I felt the chances of surviving a firefight were slim, I might 'willingly' surrender my stores. But eat that canned meat and fish......... and other stuff that I'd have to prepare just for such 'occasions', and there'd be one less mob for some other soul, or me, later to deal with. Either poison or sleeping potions... If sleeping potions, I could retrieve my possibles later, and then evaluate the sleeping pigeons to see if they were good slave fodder. Also much simpler to dispatch a thug while they're sleeping.

Steal my ammo stores will you... Please, please don't. Ok, if you 'must'. I reload. Most reloads are perfect for my needs... long range efficient kills. However, if you steal my bullets,.223, .40S/W, .44mag, .243, 30-30, .270, or .300 winmag, , I'll have specially prepared ones that will do three things... Just in case I have to prove that they're good bullets, half the box would be good, 1/4 hardly any powder at all..... the bullet will exit the case, but not the barrel... second bullet fired will hit the first (lodged in the barrel) and the gun barrel will explode. The last 1/4 and probably all of the handgun bullets will be HOT... as in blow the action to pieces. Has to be pretty danged hot to blow a .44.... haven't done that yet. Have blown the springs in a .40 with mildly hot loads...

Folks will eat off of me once, and shoot my shells once...


In my worst case scenarios... no constitution, or piece of paper, or law is going to protect you. You do it yourself, or acquiesce to slavery or starvation. There's an old saying about those who beat there swords into plowshares are soon slaves of those that didn't... is true. History is rife with the powerful 'conquering' the weak. I don't want to say I'm powerful, but I will say that I am not now or plan on ever being weak.

So, believe that there is a law ordering hoards confiscated, or not. It will matter not, if things head south. If you have food available, dried plums or Cheerios, it will be taken, if it's found... either with a piece of paper or with a gun... either way, YOU STARVE... right then, or later, at the govt. or feudal lords pleasure...


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## edcopp (Oct 9, 2004)

YuccaFlatsRanch said:


> "each family tries to keep three years supply of food."
> 
> Nope - Church preaches one year, but three years is good.
> 
> ...


I sure am glad that I am not an executive.


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## texican (Oct 4, 2003)

A.T. Hagan said:


> Those kinds of ideas are tragedies waiting to happen when they go awry.
> 
> .....Alan.


I don't like thieves now, and I'd dislike them even more after a crunch. My GF won't eat anything that I've canned... anything. None of my family will eat anything I've canned, outside of fruit, and they don't take anything, they only get what I give. Anyone that 'knows' about canned goods would also never eat the bad food... if you don't hear the vacuum releasing, you toss it... at least I do... I won't even feed it to my critters, not worth the risk. It goes straight to the county dumpster.


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