# Our new Catahoula stud



## dbarjacres (Feb 2, 2004)

Meet Muddy River Talladega "Dega". He's just gonna turn 2 soon and a beautiful dog.

He was born in Texas, purchased by a breeder/hunter in Alabama, didn't have a high enough hunting drive so he was beaten (which really helped matters, duh!) and lived in the middle of a woods with a bunch of other hounds tied to a barrel with a logging chain. 

Dec. 2007 a show kennel breeder in Southern Wisconsin purchased him and brought him home, socialized him, cared for him and we met him in March 2008 when we went to her home to look at her stud prospects for our female. She had 3 and we fell in love with Dega, so sweet for what he went thru and just gorgeous. She called us a few weeks later stating she wanted to find Dega the right home as he just was too stressed with her 11 dogs in the house (mostly Houlas with an old Dobe and Chinese Crested). So asked if we'd like to purchase him. Well, purchasing him was the same price as stud fee, so we went for it.

Dega loves it here. He loves to go for rides, he has a large out door kennel and is run daily, plus he only has to deal with our old shepherd ex-stud and our Houla female.


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## Ravenlost (Jul 20, 2004)

Look at those beautiful eyes and that sweet face! He's gorgeous!


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## donsgal (May 2, 2005)

WOW.

Great blood lines there! McMillian, I believe. I adore glassy-eyed Catahoulas. If I ever actually got a dog (not likely), they would be right up there at the top of the list. Excellent multi-function dog, and very protective!

Thank you for bringing some joy into his life after all the misery he has endured. You rock.

donsgal


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## TedH71 (Jan 19, 2003)

I know the breeder of Muddy River..she no longer breeds catahoulas but her kennel name is still on some papers out there. She only has one left. Her main reason for getting out of catahoulas is that they can become extremely dog aggressive when they get older so be aware of that plus they are so hard headed that in some cases you had to use a whip (produces cracking sound) or a bb gun to teach them to call off on livestock ON command because they became temporarily deaf to shouted commands. Her lone catahoula was always growling at other dogs when they approached the breeder and she said that was a catahoula trait because they consider their owner their property which can be unusual in dogs. She breeds american bulldogs and her own line of cur dogs that are mostly Kemmer bred curs. It's her hubby's hobby of hog hunting. BTW, most catahoula people do not like catahoulas being called cats or houlas. Just a heads up. Personally I couldn't care less, lol. I like the breed but some traits I do not like (such as extreme aggression or shyness) and it took me 5 years to find my male and now he's at a friend's house in Texas because he figured out that my fiancee's deaf/blind dog was a fun dog to pick on (pretended he was a boar and bayed and bit him like he was a boar at bay) because he couldn't defend himself. Catahoulas are dominant type of dogs and often they try to climb the pecking order so be aware of that. No need to beat the snot out of them but you do have to show them who's boss once in a while when they're being a mule's butt. My favorite weapon was a kid's plastic baseball bat that I would whack on the ground to let them know that Daddy was not happy with them plus if I had to whack them, it just produced mostly loud noises and very little pain. Have fun with him! I'm jealous. Remember not all catahoulas have glass eyes. They can have amber, orange, speckled, etc eyes....not all of them are spotted..the solid ones often are sold cheap but they work just the same as the spotted ones. Best bet is to breed a spotted coat catahoula with a solid colored catahoula and you'll have much lower chance of deafness/blind pups.

Keep in mind, not having a high working drive is crap...some people prefer loose baying dogs which he may be..they live longer because they think before they act, lol. The former owner probably wanted him to be a rough bay dog which would have gotten him gutted or cut down real fast. Shows that he is a thinker which can be good or bad depending on what he chooses to do, lol!

Forgot to add, some catahoulas can be harder to house break than others..in some cases, I think they're so dominant they have to mark in the house to prove their ownership. I had a female that was like that. She had to learn not to do that..eventually she was an outdoor dog.


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## Reptyle (Jul 28, 2005)

Beautiful dog...congrats on the new addition the your family.


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## naturewoman (Nov 12, 2002)

He is gorgeous. I find it sad that he will be living primarily in a kennel, rather than as a family member though. I just don't understand wanting to have a dog if it's not part of the family. They are pack animals..not meant to be alone.

My uncle raised and trained prize winning hunting dogs and he kept them kenneled too. I just never got it...or maybe I got it but just can't accept it.

Just like I wouldn't have a single goat because they are herd animals...I don't believe in keeping a pack animal isolated either.


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## TedH71 (Jan 19, 2003)

Naturewoman,

I would wager 85% of catahoulas are kept outside due to several issues: extreme energy...lots of them know how to open doors and get into mischief. My deaf catahoula was often found sleeping on top of the refrigator! They also can chew and cause damage..I know of one pup that was kept in the laundry room....that pup chewed thru drywall and insulation to get out in order to trash the house!

Some catahoulas are very protective of their properties and would be best left outside to do their jobs.

Keep in mind, keeping dogs..espically catahoulas indoors is a very new thing. Used to be maybe 15 years ago, most of them were kept outdoors. As a result, lots of them have not developed the "housebreaking" habits like certain dog breeds. Mine were kept in crates when they were indoors at night. Only 1 was trustworthy enough to roam the house and that was the alpha female I had. She had to be re-homed several years ago when I started my informal catahoula rescue bec she plain didn't like any puppies in her house and would try to kill them (seriously she has killed one). Found out that it was a catahoula trait that lots of catahoula breeders do not tell novices because it would have hurt sales.


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## naturewoman (Nov 12, 2002)

Ted, I'm not talking about a dog being left alone in the house all day. Many dogs need to be crated during the day, or kenneled outside. But I've seen too many dogs that are kept kennelled or tied out all the time. Never even allowed the run of the yard. Even when people are home, they are kenneled or tied. My uncle only took his dogs out to train them, and said if they were treated like family pets they wouldn't respond well to the training...I know some people are into that. I just find it a sad way to live for the dog that lives his life in a cage, quite often alone.


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## Pops2 (Jan 27, 2003)

hard core hunting dogs even good bird dogs can be a problem w/ the neighbors if given free reign. most can clear a 4 ft fence like it's not even there. a good hunter works the dogs enough to give them excercise but most are not pets they are tools and handled that way. there would be a lot less problem dogs if folks would leave working dog to working homes and stick to fru fru dogs for pets. if you're breeding him w/o proving him in the woods or on stock just because he is pretty, you aren't doing the breed any favors.


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## dbarjacres (Feb 2, 2004)

Yep, remembered why I stay off the pet forum. Extremely opinionated "always right" people are very tiring. Just sharing good pics of a beautiful dog has turned into so much more.

Dega comes from triple championed lines and he doesn't hunt hog, well, hard enough anyway. We are in Wisconsin, so unless I turn him loose in the amish neighbor's pig pen I'll never know about that. He does bay **** and is interested in working cattle. Sorry I can't "prove" him to you in the show/bay ring as again, we are in Wisconsin and don't have things like that here nor the time or money to take him down South to show. The pedigree is proven. As well as the ***** we will be crossing him to, who is Pumpkin Hill and Lee bred.

We raised German Shepherds for 10 years, which is the breed DH grew up with, but wasn't mine after ornery bitches would kill cats and poultry and we also had a rescue intact male Akita, so we know working dogs, conflicting dogs and how to handle them.

We have three dogs in the house already and don't need the three outdoor dogs in. They all have 10x15 Priefert kennels that are adjoined and roofed. The dogs are out every morning for 15 minutes before work and again for a few hours every evening and out usually all day on weekends. Every Shepherd pup we ever sold was to a home that wouldn't have him as an only dog in a kennel stuck out back or chained to a house. We don't raise our dogs like that and don't want our pups in that situation. With the Catahoulas it may be different, and we will only sell to "informed people" as it was with both dogs I purchased. If they are hunting dogs, they will be chained as that's their "lifestyle" but if we sell to a farm, stock working or family, they will have more freedom.

Our ***** is a chocolate with brindle trim and amber eyes. She's very intelligent and a nice girl, and I'm not partial to female dogs, she's the only one here out of 6. I am not comfortable crossing leopard to leopard as some are, possibly deaf dogs I don't want to breed for. She's beautiful as well, but doesn't stand still long enough for a picture.

When we bought our female, we were given the last male in the litter as well, he had a goofy ear and was black & brindle so not "sought after". He was a very gritty dog already at 4-5 months and was baying **** already then, working the goats and fighting with our neutered male german shepherd and Aussie (our alpha who resides in the house). He went to a working ranch. Oakley the female and Dega the male have very good temperments and both love all our other dogs, even with the shepherd challenging Dega. 

Catahoulas aren't for everyone and definately not an apartment dog for an unactive person, but with the right breeding and handling, they can have good temperment and work.


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## TedH71 (Jan 19, 2003)

If he wants to work cattle, then he's a working dog. Some catahoulas pick a specific critter they prefer to work with while some are all around workers. I know 1 catahoula who preferred only ****! He went to a **** hunting kid. I also know of one who preferred only goats (most catahoulas are too rough for sheep or goat work). There are some catahoulas who prefer protection work...they will try to kill any interlopers (most catahoulas are like this naturally) including stray dogs or humans or run them off the property. 

You did a good match. Do they allow dog hunting on bears in Wisconsin? I believe they do. You could try that. I also hear of feral hogs moving into Wisconsin. Keep me informed! I would be interested in a pup but not right now since I don't live on a large property and am training/raising a deaf pup who's giving me a run for my money, lol.


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## naturewoman (Nov 12, 2002)

dbarjminis said:


> Yep, remembered why I stay off the pet forum. Extremely opinionated "always right" people are very tiring.
> 
> We have three dogs in the house already and don't need the three outdoor dogs in. They all have 10x15 Priefert kennels that are adjoined and roofed. The dogs are out every morning for 15 minutes before work and again for a few hours every evening and out usually all day on weekends.


I might have over-reacted to your post about kennelling him, but it wasn't because I am an "always right opinionated person"...it's because I have seen too many kennelled and abandoned dogs. 

I'm glad to hear you take as much human time with him as you do. I am sure he will be well cared for. But stop and think about it. Would you be happy being kennelled 20+ hours, five days a week?

I'm sorry...I know working dogs are often kennelled...and I still don't think it's humane to an animal that is meant to be free and with a pack. I'm not saying you are evil for keeping your dogs as you do. I'm sure they are well cared for and loved. It's just the way I feel. I'm also saddened by people who keep horses in a stall all day long.


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## AngieM2 (May 10, 2002)

That's a very handsome dog. I really like the personality/expression real soul in the eyes and head.

Angie


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## Songbird (Apr 2, 2006)

He is beautiful. Glad he finally has a home sweet home.


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## TedH71 (Jan 19, 2003)

Naturewoman,

Keep in mind, certain breeds do not do well in a pack structure of more than 2 dogs. Good examples are Jack Russells and catahoulas. Catahoulas can be kenneled with just one other dog of an opposite sex. Anymore than two will have the 3rd or 4th dog dead. Not kidding, catahoula pups older than 4 months old start ganging up on the weaker pack members and often will try to kill them. Keep in mind, the catahoula has a high percent of red wolf in them therefore they act accordingly. 8 week old pups try to kill each other over food. They also will growl and try to bite strangers if they're agile enough.

Knowledgable breeders start seperating the pups at 3 months of age and pairing them off in compatiable combos at that time then figure out what to do with females when they get into heat. Sometimes they have a metal cage that is double fenced and has a fence on the bottom and top for females in heat. Chains are much more easier to deal with than kennels in some ways because the dog actually has more running room (if the set up is done right) and gets more exercise than in a kennel. Certain breeds of dogs such as pit bulls do best on chains because they don't get into fights or chew their way out of wire kennels. 

Am curious to what hunting dog breed did your uncle or dad have?


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## naturewoman (Nov 12, 2002)

Thanks Ted. I'm not familiar with the Catahoula breed at all.

My uncle didn't breed, but he bought pups and then trained them for field trials. He sold them as champion winning adults and started over with a new pup again. He only worked one dog at a time. His breed was Golden Retrievers.


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## YodelDogs (May 25, 2007)

Dega is a gorgeous boy! Such a sad start in life but a wonderfully happy ending.


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## TedH71 (Jan 19, 2003)

Golden retrievers, eh? I know that not a lot of people use them for hunting anymore. I know of only 1 in KS that still does that but she is a certified dog trainer and her belief is same as mine: indoor dogs will do more to please their master than outdoor dogs usually. Keep in mind iff you have more than 4 or 5 dogs for hunting and you live in a state where weather is good then I don't see anything wrong with kenneling.


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## TedH71 (Jan 19, 2003)

Talk about reviving an old thread! Turns out my current male has Muddy River bloodline in him amongst others. I also got a female that was left on a chain for a year and half. She's happy to be off the chain. My male works hogs and I'm hoping that the female will too once I get her more socialized.


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## handymama (Aug 22, 2014)

Beautiful!


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## Allen W (Aug 2, 2008)

TedH71

Thanks for reviving this post. Your post #15 should be required reading for any one interested in catahoula's. It is a disservice to the breed, any breed, when particular specifics about the breed are glossed over to improve sales. The wife got an English Shepherd puppy Tuesday, actually from the son of the breeder I had got my first one from, He is selling his pups with out papers because he doesn't like currant trends in the breed. Hopefully he is keeping papers up on his breeding dogs to preserve the line's history.


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## TedH71 (Jan 19, 2003)

Almost every catahoula I know of are kept behind fences...surrounded by hot wire because of their intense desire to work and part of their traditional work was to guard the property and if the farm critters got out of their assigned areas (they have excellent memories of where animals are supposed to stay in), they will work the animal and make sure the animal stays IN the area where they're supposed to be in.....catahoulas can be chained up as well provided they get plenty time off the chain.

They're good for putting in your truck when you need to go to the store and want nobody messing with the truck, lol.


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## aoconnor1 (Jun 19, 2014)

Your boy is lovely! Best of luck with him!!

I own a female Catahoula. She has gone after my female Bulldog twice, unfortunately causing stitches both times. She is also aggressive with my tri-pawed -)) Great Pyrenees boy, who is twice her size just about. Neither of those two dogs can get away from her fast enough to keep her off. My little Bulldog is never left in the same room with her without a human in the room.

I rescued my girl. She was hit by a truck and left in the road. Hubby picked her up and she has been here almost 2 years. She is a pain in the butt!!! She mouths everyone who walks in the door, barks incessantly at my horses, chickens, donkeys, and other dogs. I tell her "no" and "off" and "leave it" so often I bet she thinks they are all her names. I can't have a hose on without her attacking it and wanting to play in it. She likes to aggravate my cats by walking over to them and putting their heads in her mouth and not letting them go. She isn't trying to hurt them, but she never stops!!! If she hadn't been hit, I would never have gotten her, and the only benefit there is, is that I know not to ever get another one!!!!

Don't get me wrong either though, she is quite sweet and she has a tremendous fondness for my male (all of my dogs are neutered or spayed) Blue Heeler/Blue Tick Hound cross. He is a calm boy, so he has actually helped her some, but she gets him to do things I think he wouldn't otherwise do just by being her spastic, over animated self!! This girl only settles down after her night time meal when she eats, then goes to her bed and sleeps through until breakfast. Mine are all inside dogs, we have too many predators out here to keep a dog outdoors that has been hit by a car and can't run fast enough to get away from them. If not for that, she would be an outdoor dog. 

I can honestly say, I will not have another Catahoula. I have had dogs all of my life, and this is honestly the only breed besides a Pitbull that I won't have intentionally have again.


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## SueMc (Jan 10, 2010)

Congrats on your new dog! My nephew also has a Catahoula that doesn't "have a high enough prey drive". Even more insulting to the breed, his dog once "herded" a very young wild hog out of the woods back to their home place. The hog grew up as a constant companion to the confused dog. Unfortunately the hog ended up in the freezer after destroying some of the family's crops.


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## aoconnor1 (Jun 19, 2014)

SueMc said:


> Congrats on your new dog! My nephew also has a Catahoula that doesn't "have a high enough prey drive". Even more insulting to the breed, his dog once "herded" a very young wild hog out of the woods back to their home place. The hog grew up as a constant companion to the confused dog. Unfortunately the hog ended up in the freezer after destroying some of the family's crops.


Lol!! Too funny

My girl also is lacking in the prey drive deal. She likes to play more than chase. My horses confuse her, she doesn't know if she should herd them or chase them. I am taking care of a tiny mini stallion right now, and my Catahoula has no clue if she should bark at it or bring it into the house with her! One thing I do like about my girl, she is a nut of a dog! Very silly and happy and plays all day long with her Pal. So I guess there are some really good things about her.


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## SueMc (Jan 10, 2010)

aoconnor1 said:


> Lol!! Too funny



I'm trying to find a pic I have of the two together but all I've found so far is a hog leg on a spit over a wood fire (dinner when my son and his family went out to visit)!

I love the catahoulas I've been around but have never had one. Sounds like I should stick to my laid back Pyrs!


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## TedH71 (Jan 19, 2003)

No offense but it seems most of you don't understand the purpose of the breed. The catahoula was bred to go into the swamps (back then, fences fenced OUT the livestock not keeping them IN)...the owner would often send just one experienced dog...and if they had an apprentice dog..they would send that one to tag along with the experienced dog. The experienced dog had to go track down the wandering livestock...in most cases, it was hogs. The dog's job was to harass the hogs...so badly to the point the lead hog would get really mad and then the entire sounder (herd) would pack up and charge after the dog. The dog had to literally repeat this behavior (barking and picking on the hogs over and over and fleeing...they were termed "coward dogs" for this typical behavior) to get the hogs to follow him. Basically the barking hypnotizes the hogs to some effect. The typical catahoula could get anywhere from 100-300 hogs to follow him into a pen then he would climb out of it and be told by the owner, "Good boy!" He had to do it on his OWN with no help and when he wasn't working, he was either guarding the property or making sure the owner's animals were staying in their designated areas. He could also round up the cattle. Their overpowering instinct is to STOP any action and the owner was to bring up the cattle from behind.

With this being said, a lot of Australian shepherd mixes can often come out with smooth hair and look like catahoulas so I'm quite leery for a good reason when someone says they've got a catahoula they found....the key is to look at their behavior. Typical herding dog breeds tend to try to push you or nip you from behind, catahoulas and blackmouth curs (a close cousin) will try to run to your front and try to work you because they don't want you to move and to acknowledge them before they'll let you walk on some more. Experienced dogs do this behavior much less. Puppies are most prone to this.

Perfect example of the coward behavior:
[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p0ySO9WDtUw[/ame]

[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZIgrHXgnGM8[/ame]

Film producer needs to work on his focusing skills:
[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cZ7XPoeo6mY[/ame]

Perfect example of catahoulas loading up cattle in a trailer:
[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tx2vq-eTwzM[/ame]

Working feral hogs...there are good and bad videos out there but this one is good. Personally, I think he has 4 too many dogs on the hogs. 1 to 2 is a good number. Anything over that, the dogs start acting like a pack and try to catch and can get cut up. That can get ugly real fast. 
[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K5Gm0YxfZy0[/ame]


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## aoconnor1 (Jun 19, 2014)

Ted, those are great videos! My female works my horses in the same manner, as well as my donkeys when they head into the horse barn uninvited. We have feral hogs on the ranch, but I don't let my dogs go after them because I don't want them to run them back into our barn area, which is what they would do. Instead I let the hogs pass through and we either live trap or shoot them when we know where they hang out.


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## Squeaky McMurdo (Apr 19, 2012)

Deva is gorgeous! Old thread so any puppy pictures yet?


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## RedDirt Cowgirl (Sep 21, 2010)

Ted, you've given us quite an education!

Around here border collies and Aussies are the standard cowdog, but Nevada has some hardcore cowboys that keep Catahoulas. When the big boys get together to load cattle, I've seen a single dog sent in to a corral to deal with a balky bunch, break up a corner, kind of like a crazy scrambler. When the bunch is centered again or running the chute, the Catahoula is called back and the other dogs take over.

They're like a bolt of lightening!


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## TedH71 (Jan 19, 2003)

I would never own an Aussie again..not with their excessive long hair and honestly, lack of a herding instinct. I know there are working Aussies out there but I've seen very few of those. I'm not a fan of having to tell a dog where to go like you do with border collies. I prefer my dogs to go out there when I tell them, "Git 'em!" They know WHAT to do by themselves. They just need training to be able to be called off basically.


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## RedDirt Cowgirl (Sep 21, 2010)

"That is one hell of a dog!" is just about what everyone says about Catahoulas - never knew they had smarts to go along with all that - well, mania is how it looks. The one that came to our place stared me in the eye like "Shall I eat you up too?" :heh:


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