# Do You Think We are Getting B.S.'ed Regarding Covid?



## Fishindude (May 19, 2015)

There is a lot of talk out there that Covid is largely a made up illness, just another strain of the flu and no more serious or deadly than other strains of the flu. There is also a lot of talk that just about anybody that dies from anything respiratory lately is being classified a Covid death without autopsy being done, etc. Many of those that have passed away recently and called Covid deaths were elderly or those with pre-existing conditions that could have been fatal had they contracted just about any strain of the flu or virus.

There is a lot of talk that the whole thing was implemented to shut down the robust economy we had going in the US, to lessen the chance of Trump being re-elected. There is talk that the whole thing is about government control, to crush small business owners and get more people dependant on the hand outs, unemployment, etc. There is continued talks of extending restrictions, keeping our freedom to travel, interact, and do many of the things we all like to do on hold even longer.

I'm rural midwest, but to date I don't have any friends or associates who have contracted this alleged illness and I'm unaware of anyone in my community that has died from it, althought they claim we have X,XXX cases of it. We're not seeing a greater number of obituaries in the newspaper. There are a lot of deaths in the US being claimed as Covid related, but the US death rate has not spiked significantly, in fact the US death rate is trending downward the last couple years.

The amount of dollars and jobs lost is staggering. Just pick on one pro sports event with 50,000 fans that pay an average of $150 per seat and spend another $200 per game for parking, food, beer, etc. That equals $17.5 mil and that's only one ball game. Look at all of the little stores, restaurants and bars that barely scrape by when things are good, going broke. Look at all the laid off and unemployed people that may lose their homes, their automobiles or may have to tap their retirement funds to survive. Along with all of these problems comes; mental illness, domestic abuse, drug and alcohol abuse, etc.

Looks to me as if the problems and financial costs of this alleged "pandemic" are far more damaging than the health hazards? I'm curious where others stand on this?


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## georger (Sep 15, 2003)

I think there is a certain amount of BS, yes. Do I trust our politicians? No. Can I do anything about it? Not really.


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

It is as real as the race riots


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## Alice In TX/MO (May 10, 2002)

1. Influenza and corona viruses are two different virus families. Think chihuahuas and dachshunds. 

2. I do think it is overhyped. 

3. The rest has already been talked to death.


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## SLADE (Feb 20, 2004)

As the covid and gross incompetence at the top of the top of the political food chain destroys our economy and country 
we can all claim it's a conspiracy. How convenient.


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## Alice In TX/MO (May 10, 2002)

I don't understand exactly what point you are trying to make, SRSLADE.

Who said the least complicated answer is the correct one? 

Oh, me. Just now.


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

SRSLADE said:


> As the covid and gross incompetence at the top of the top of the political food chain destroys our economy and country
> we can all claim it's a conspiracy. How convenient.


And you want to cast blame, because he ain't your guy. Small mind.


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## Alice In TX/MO (May 10, 2002)

Geez. I don't even think there was a "your guy" mentioned yet, was there?

Edited:
Oh. I found it. Sigh.


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

Alice In TX/MO said:


> Geez. I don't even think there was a "your guy" mentioned yet, was there?


I saw that in his comment.


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## Alice In TX/MO (May 10, 2002)

The OP said the T word.


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

Alice In TX/MO said:


> The OP said the T word.


No idea what you mean


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## SLADE (Feb 20, 2004)

TRUTH?


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## doozie (May 21, 2005)

My area does not have a great number of cases, so it would be easy to think it's nothing to worry about or it's all some great scheme.

Where I lived previously I know of a person that had it and recovered as far as I know, but I recently found out another family acquaintance spent time in the ICU and thought he was going to die. I'm not sure that they are fully recovered or if they will have lasting effects. Both people are friends of my sons, younger and healthy. One in the medical field, the other a worker exposed to the public.

Those cases and the fact that it has a worldwide spread make it "real" enough for me.

I do wonder if something as simple as wearing masks, limiting personal travel, and distancing could have prevented the shutdown.


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## Alice In TX/MO (May 10, 2002)

It might have, but the public wasn’t likely to cooperate.


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## Danaus29 (Sep 12, 2005)

My brother knew an early covid victim. My daughter knew a covid victim. Hubby's brother knows several people who were hospitalized with covid.

If my Christmas virus was covid (which was circulating in Ohio in December) it is a really horrible nasty disease. That was the sickest I have ever been, took months to recover.

I think we are being BS'd. When they started uncovering early covid cases the antibody tests were pulled.


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## keenataz (Feb 17, 2009)

It’s real.


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## rambler (Jan 20, 2004)

I think it is a serious new virus.

I think the path we are taking to deal with the virus has become more political than scientific.

early on I was on board with the immediate need to flatten the curve and gain a better understanding of this disease before it overwhelms humanity.

I think we did a good job of that as a country.

as time goes on, I have lost track of anyone having a plan of what the goal is any more, what is stage 2 of this master plan? No one tells me.

it appears the govt folk like telling us what to do, without telling us what the plan is. Perhaps they have no plan.

at some point human beings will go on living as a species. We went through pandemics before, I saw a list of them back to biblical times. They come and they go and they leave a lot of death and bad times for a few and then they are gone.

I’m getting concerned we are entering a time where the bad times are perpetuated on us, and we will be unable to get any sort of herd immunity to this, it will be a perpetual pandemic that continues for centuries, as we live with hand sanitizer and masks for the rest of our lives, one by one we get picked off by the virus as it mutates now faster than we build a group immunity to it. Our fear and living without living any more might end up making this virus a permanent thing out there always stalking us for centuries.

so, as time moves on, I have been on both sides of this issue.

if you want to lock me down and force regulations and rules on me, then I need to see a plausible goal to achieve.

people die from cigarettes, people die from automobiles, people die from vaccinations, people die from accidents at skate board parks.

we need to live life and balance our risks and rewards.

the govt is starting to lose my support on all this, which they had early on.

I don’t think an effective vaccine is going to come very soon on this type of virus. I think the medical field has drastically increased their treatments and understanding of the virus. At some point we need to make the break for herd immunity. The weak and feeble (I might be so myself) will need to take care as best they can, and the species of humans has to press forward with living.

when and how do we start living again? This is becoming the louder question inside me.


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## Evons hubby (Oct 3, 2005)

The virus is real. Most of the hype is politics.


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## Alice In TX/MO (May 10, 2002)

Rambler just hit the nail with the hammer.


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## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

Covid is not BS it is not hype.. 18 percent rise in in the normal amount of deaths per year, so far and no end in sight.

https://www.france24.com/en/20200701-pandemic-caused-18-pc-rise-in-deaths-in-us-study

"The coronavirus pandemic in the US claimed at least 122,000 more lives than would be expected in a normal year, for a rise of 18 percent, says a study released Wednesday.

But this is just a national average, and the excess death rate was particularly high in virus hot spots such as New York City, which buried three times more people than usual and up to seven times as many during the peak of the pandemic, according to a week by week study carried out at Yale University and published in the journal JAMA Internal Medicine"


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## Farmerga (May 6, 2010)

It, in simple terms is a virus that, while being much easier to catch than seasonal flu, is on about the same level when it comes to lethality. A shutdown of the economy to try and stop it was a gross over-reaction. The continued calls to keep closed or reclose business is purely political. It is very dangerous to those above 65 (much more for those above 85) but, is generally not a big deal for the younger folk, who are otherwise healthy. Logic would dictate that we take measures to protect the elderly (like NOT sending positive cases to nursing homes) and let the rest of us young healthy folks get on with life.


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## audacity (Feb 14, 2020)

Farmerga said:


> It, in simple terms is a virus that, while being much easier to catch than seasonal flu, is on about the same level when it comes to lethality. A shutdown of the economy to try and stop it was a gross over-reaction. The continued calls to keep closed or reclose business is purely political. It is very dangerous to those above 65 (much more for those above 85) but, is generally not a big deal for the younger folk, who are otherwise healthy. Logic would dictate that we take measures to protect the elderly (like NOT sending positive cases to nursing homes) and let the rest of us young healthy folks get on with life.


I think the challenge is addressing three problems:

1 - The US did not have the infrastructure required to address a full-blown pandemic, and this proved it. The shutdown wasn't to _stop_ the virus. The CDC and virologists acknowledged early on that this virus was going to be around all year and millions were liable to be infected. The shutdown was done to _slow it down_ so that our medical community could keep up. If anything, this entire episode has proven that we are not equipped to handle a major biological disaster -- whether that be some mutant fungal bloom or a bioweapon or a zombie virus from space.

2 - People cannot be expected to act like adults. Just look at the people protesting a _simple_ requirement like wearing masks. Like, "How dare you tell us to do something that might slightly inconvenience me!" I literally just saw a Facebook info-meme floating around saying that masks don't protect against viruses but are a conspiracy to control everyone. Because grown adults can't be mature about this, the government has to use more drastic measures like curfews and shutdowns. 

3 - Asymptomatic cases. This virus is capable of shedding _before_ symptoms appear, which means it can be quickly spread in a room full of healthy people. There have been several people discovered to test positive for COVID who had next to no symptoms at all, at any point. It's common enough that you can't assume that a healthy-seeming person isn't a carrier.


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

painterswife said:


> Covid is not BS it is not hype..





> Over 130,000 deaths from Covid in the US


That's still extremely low in a country our size.

0.0392746099%
It's being used politically and anyone who is honest wouldn't say otherwise.
They also wouldn't be using a running death total for their own agendas.


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## Alice In TX/MO (May 10, 2002)

Handy dandy chart updated today.
https://coronavirus.jhu.edu/data/mortality


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

Canada fatality rate: 8.2% 
US fatality rate: 4.8%


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

Alice In TX/MO said:


> Handy dandy chart updated today.
> https://coronavirus.jhu.edu/data/mortality


That is handy dandy


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## SLADE (Feb 20, 2004)

4.8% is very high.


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## Alice In TX/MO (May 10, 2002)

Whoa, Nelly! Barefootfarm, that's a statistic with not enough reference info. That is the CASE FATALITY RATE, which is a whole different can of worms.

Here:
Deaths per 100,000 -
U.S. 38.95
Canada 23.34


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

Bearfootfarm said:


> Canada fatality rate: 8.2%
> US fatality rate: 4.8%


That puts Canada worse than Sweden


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

SRSLADE said:


> 4.8% is very high.


4.9% is higher


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## SLADE (Feb 20, 2004)

Chad an African country is doing better than the US.


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## TripleD (Feb 12, 2011)

So who do we believe? I got one side of the family thinking mom/dad in their 70s. Divorced over 30yrs need to go on and devide up their assets! Lol. Same one's that had me get them to update their Will's last year! Heck they think both are going to die From this...


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

Alice In TX/MO said:


> That is the CASE *FATALITY RATE*, which is a whole different can of worms.


That's what I said too.



> Bearfootfarm said: ↑
> Canada *fatality rate*: 8.2%
> US *fatality rate*: 4.8%


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## Alice In TX/MO (May 10, 2002)

You have to decide who to believe. 

The country of Chad has no tourist industry. Trust me.


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## Alice In TX/MO (May 10, 2002)

CASE fatality rate is *different* from the fatality rate of the _overall_ population.

Reading and understanding is an important skill.


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

SRSLADE said:


> Chad an African country is doing better than the US.


I am sure they have accurate numbers


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## Alice In TX/MO (May 10, 2002)

As accurate as the camel trader's assertion of the health of herd.


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## SLADE (Feb 20, 2004)

HDRider said:


> That is handy dandy
> 
> View attachment 88986


Looks like most every country is doing better than the US


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

Alice In TX/MO said:


> Reading and understanding is an important skill.





SRSLADE said:


> Looks like most every country is doing better than the US


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## Alice In TX/MO (May 10, 2002)

Sigh. Help me Obi Wan Kenobi. You're my only hope.


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

4.8648788162% Worldwide fatality rate
4.8030638854% US fatality rate
8.1696853249% Canada fatality rate

https://gisanddata.maps.arcgis.com/apps/opsdashboard/index.html#/bda7594740fd40299423467b48e9ecf6

https://www.bing.com/search?q=22+wh...s=n&sk=&cvid=1CC0F33E4AC2411CA556C3622F70929F


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## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

Most of the rest of the world, infection rates are going down. The US rates just keep climbing. Those are the facts.


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## audacity (Feb 14, 2020)

Guys! Guys. Come on.

All we have to do to improve our numbers is slow down all that testing nonsense.

/s


But yeah -- even with "single-digit" mortality percentages per the whole population, this is pretty bad.

To put this in perspective -- look at the chart linked above that shows deaths per 100,000 for corona.

Now consider that in 2017, the ratio of people who died from influenza per 100,000 people was..... *2*.
There were only ~6,000 deaths attributed to influenza.

Pneumonia accounted for 15 deaths per 100,000 people.
There were 49,000 deaths attributed to pneuomia.

_*Combined*_, pneumonia and influenza accounted for only 3% of the total deaths from 2017.

A death rate of 4.8% makes this one of the top infectious disease killers in the US.


EDIT: Source - https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/fastats


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

painterswife said:


> Most of the rest of the world, *infection rates* are going down. The US rates just keep climbing. Those are *the facts*.


That's the media spin.
If *testing* is increased, "infection rates" increase.
That lowers fatality rates.


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

SRSLADE said:


> Looks like most every country is doing better than the US


You must have looked at a different chart

Why do you hate everything about America?


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## Farmerga (May 6, 2010)

audacity said:


> 1 - The US did not have the infrastructure required to address a full-blown pandemic, and this proved it.


 We have known that for decades. Most of what is needed has a short shelf life. And not every pandemic will require the same equipment. It would be next to impossible to be always ready for a pandemic.



audacity said:


> The shutdown wasn't to _stop_ the virus.


Yeah, that is how they sold it. "flatten the curve" and all. But, now it is "we can't do anything as long as this virus is out there" That is mass suicide thinking for a virus with a greater than 99% survival rate. 



audacity said:


> Just look at the people protesting a _simple_ requirement like wearing masks.


 The masks are a pacifier for the masses. They really do very little to stop the spread of a virus, they aren't designed to. That is why the "experts" were hesitant to recommend them in the early days. 



audacity said:


> the government has to use more drastic measures like curfews and shutdowns.


 No they don't. Some just get their rocks off by being authoritarian dolts.


audacity said:


> It's common enough that you can't assume that a healthy-seeming person isn't a carrier


 True. It is time to let the virus run it's course among the healthy. Protect the elderly and immunocompromised .


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## Mish (Oct 15, 2015)

SRSLADE said:


> Chad an African country is doing better than the US.


I bet you we have more elderly people and people who rely on medical care to stay alive in general than Chad does, since we have an arguable decent medical system. We likely also have more obese people (which seems to be a large percentage of people - other than elderly/infirm - who do not do well once they've contracted the virus).

I think you could find your answer somewhere in there, I mean if you really cared to think about why that could be beyond who the President is.


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## mreynolds (Jan 1, 2015)

SRSLADE said:


> Chad an African country is doing better than the US.


Isnt it ironic that African Americans call racists a Chad?


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## Alice In TX/MO (May 10, 2002)

What? Now you are totally making things up.


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## mreynolds (Jan 1, 2015)

Alice In TX/MO said:


> What? Now you are totally making things up.


https://nypost.com/2020/05/14/what-does-it-mean-to-be-a-karen-viral-name-memes-explained/

_Karen is the latest in a growing line of internet memes poking fun at real-life archetypes. Names such as Karen, Becky and *Chad *have been co-opted to call out social faux pas online_


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## keenataz (Feb 17, 2009)

mreynolds said:


> https://nypost.com/2020/05/14/what-does-it-mean-to-be-a-karen-viral-name-memes-explained/
> 
> _Karen is the latest in a growing line of internet memes poking fun at real-life archetypes. Names such as Karen, Becky and *Chad *have been co-opted to call out social faux pas online_


I don’t see anything about black Americans saying that.


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

mreynolds said:


> Karen is the latest in a growing line of internet memes poking fun at real-life archetypes. Names such as Karen, Becky and *Chad *have been co-opted to call out social faux pas online


I hope they don't all decide to commit suicide.
The last thing we need is a lot more hanging Chads.


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## rambler (Jan 20, 2004)

> We likely also have more obese people (which seems to be a large percentage of people 

mish I hope you don’t mind how much I chuckled at that line. It hit my funny bone.

agree with the point you were making, not trying to derail you!

Paul


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## mreynolds (Jan 1, 2015)

keenataz said:


> I don’t see anything about black Americans saying that.


So yeah, it has never happened then. My bad. Except I have heard them do it. Even the woman in the park was called a Becky and it was posted on this forum. Chad isn't used as much as Becky. For some reason it's more fashionable to pick on women.


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## Alice In TX/MO (May 10, 2002)

It's Ken. Karen and Ken.


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## mreynolds (Jan 1, 2015)

Alice In TX/MO said:


> It's Ken. Karen and Ken.


And Becky, Chad and Felicia.

Probably more.


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## homesteadforty (Dec 4, 2007)

Fishindude said:


> *There is a lot of talk out there that* Covid is largely a made up illness... *There is also a lot of talk that* just about anybody that dies from anything respiratory... Many of those that have passed away recently...
> 
> *There is a lot of talk that* the whole thing was implemented... *There is talk that *the whole thing is about government control... There is continued talks of extending restrictions...


I generally don't put much stock in "a lot of talk". Minus "a lot of talk" I base my opinions and decisions on the best facts I have available and my best analysis of said facts.



> *Looks to me* as if the problems and financial costs of this alleged "pandemic" are far more damaging than the health hazards? I'm curious where others stand on this?


It looks that way to many... until it's their loved one that dies.


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## kroll (May 18, 2020)

Me being simple minded,going to show it. I think its fake to extent,didn't need to create this to show not prepaired. I think there's bigger picture, with all this preaching about global citizenship and one government and keeping us divided.. Election yr and all what's going on right now,perfect timing? Being 66 I have never seen news media and one party jump on and stay on one president for so long costing us tax payers so much money.News media is like some basketball players talking lot of trash during game.It saddens me to think that both partys have to bargain,if they were for the people then they shouldn't have to bargain.


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

painterswife said:


> Covid is not BS it is not hype.. 18 percent rise in in the normal amount of deaths per year, so far and no end in sight.











 Pandemic caused 18 pc rise in deaths in US: study - Breitbart


Washington (AFP) - The coronavirus pandemic in the US claimed at least 122,000 more lives than would be expected in a normal year, for a rise of 18




www.breitbart.com




"The total number of extra deaths was far greater than that of fatalities officially blamed on the coronavirus. This is because *many people who died were not tested for the virus*, or because the way death certificates are filled out is not standardized in the US.

*So 22 percent of the above-normal deaths had* *no official link to the coronavirus*. "


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## mreynolds (Jan 1, 2015)

kroll said:


> Me being simple minded,going to show it. I think its fake to extent,didn't need to create this to show not prepaired. I think there's bigger picture, with all this preaching about global citizenship and one government and keeping us divided.. Election yr and all what's going on right now,perfect timing? Being 66 I have never seen news media and one party jump on and stay on one president for so long costing us tax payers so much money.News media is like some basketball players talking lot of trash during game.It saddens me to think that both partys have to bargain,if they were for the people then they shouldn't have to bargain.


I don't think it is going away either. No matter who gets elected the next time it will be worse. Washington has become a chicken pen and the next POTUS will be the chicken with all the tail and head feathers missing.


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## Oregon1986 (Apr 25, 2017)

I believe the virus is real but I don't believe its as bad as they say. I feel this is all a political stunt


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## 101pigs (Sep 18, 2018)

Oregon1986 said:


> I believe the virus is real but I don't believe its as bad as they say. I feel this is all a political stunt


Its a lot more cases then is being reported going to get a lot worse.


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

101pigs said:


> Its a lot more cases then is being reported going to get a lot worse.


More infections reported actually lowers the death rate, since 90-95% have mild infections.








Antibody Tests Point To Lower Death Rate For The Coronavirus Than First Thought


Tests for the immune response to the coronavirus are revealing thousands of people who were infected but never got severely ill. The findings suggest the virus is less deadly than it first appeared.




www.npr.org


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## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

Highly infectious. Even if the death rate is lower the numbers of deaths, will be horrendous because of the infection rate. Then there is the percentage left with ongoing medical problems from the damage to the lungs.


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## 101pigs (Sep 18, 2018)

painterswife said:


> Highly infectious. Even if the death rate is lower the numbers of deaths, will be horrendous because of the infection rate. Then there is the percentage left with ongoing medical problems from the damage to the lungs.


Just wondeing how bad the 2nd and 3rd and maybe more runs of this deadly viris will bring. Just hoping a Vacc will be available in a few mos.


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## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

Looking more like one long overwhelming wave.


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

painterswife said:


> *Highly infectious.* Even if the death rate is lower the numbers of deaths, will be *horrendous* because of the infection rate.


So much melodrama, so little fact.


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## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

4 months since the first recorded US covid. Over 130,000 deaths so far and more to come. Over 30,000 dying per month. An infectious virus causing that death count.

Just the facts.


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## GunMonkeyIntl (May 13, 2013)




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## Redlands Okie (Nov 28, 2017)

4 months since the first recorded US covid. Little more than 130,000 deaths so far and more to come. Only 30,000 dying per month. An infectious virus causing that death count. Just the facts. It could easily be so much worse when compared to a variety of other illness we have been dealing with. If it mutates as most has done it will get worse. Wear a mask, wash your hands, and enjoy life.


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## SLADE (Feb 20, 2004)

116,516 Americans dead world war1.
58,220 Americans dead in war with Vietnam.
130,000 Americans dead and 30,000 a month dying from Covid.

Some are suggesting it's no big thing.
You are being told to ignore those facts and expose yourself and your family to possible illness and death.

Someone has a screw loose and I don't think it's the American people.


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## Redlands Okie (Nov 28, 2017)

SRSLADE said:


> 116,516 Americans dead world war1.
> 58,220 Americans dead in war with Vietnam.
> 130,000 Americans dead and 30,000 a month dying from Covid.
> 
> ...


Roughly 20 million dead in WW1, roughly 1.3 million dead during the American involved phase of the Vietnam police action. Americans have had it easy compared to some. 

It’s not a matter of a big thing or little thing. Not saying to ignore the facts. I am saying to pay attention to ALL of the facts big and little. Many will find their families living homeless or worse in the long run if people do not get a grip on their emotions and reach for some reality. Exposure to illness or other dangers is not a new situation. Many of us citizens have been wearing mask and washing our hands and dealing with even more safety precautions for years.


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

__





COVID-19 Provisional Counts - Weekly Updates by Select Demographic and Geographic Characteristics


Tabulated data on provisional COVID-19 deaths by age, sex, race and Hispanic origin, and comorbidities. Also includes an index of state-level and county-level mortality data available for download.




www.cdc.gov


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

That chart shows how the media is misleading us. 

*US sees a record number of new coronavirus cases reported in a single day*









US sees a record number of new coronavirus cases reported in a single day | CNN


It took a little more than two months for the US to record its first 50,000 coronavirus cases. Now it has seen that many cases reported in a single day.




edition.cnn.com


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## GTX63 (Dec 13, 2016)

There some people who are able to multitask better than others and can handle multiple viewpoints of an issue and disseminate them clearly and thoroughly.
Then there are those who are stuck in confirmation bias like a glue trap.


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## Alice In TX/MO (May 10, 2002)

Take a break for song.


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## barnbilder (Jul 1, 2005)

Dr. William Farr had this virus figured out a long time ago. But now we have fancy tests not designed for detecting viruses that we are using to detect viruses. CDC admits common cold strains are triggering positive C-19 test results. Deaths from other causes are attributed to C-19. The disease is real, the reaction to it is purely political.


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## wr (Aug 10, 2003)

painterswife said:


> 4 months since the first recorded US covid. Over 130,000 deaths so far and more to come. Over 30,000 dying per month. An infectious virus causing that death count.
> 
> Just the facts.


Most of the people infected suffer no ill effects and recover quite quickly. Also just the facts.


SRSLADE said:


> 116,516 Americans dead world war1.
> 58,220 Americans dead in war with Vietnam.
> 130,000 Americans dead and 30,000 a month dying from Covid.
> 
> ...


Is there a solution? I’m not sure I fit the narrative because we have no cure, I know that most recover and it really doesn’t matter.

If the world locks down again, essential services are expected to serve with little concern for our welfare.

Given the fact that we survived the first round, I could die tomorrow feeling like I did nothing more than exist for months on end so I’ve decided I accept the consequences of my job, understand society is selfish and self righteous and I will live the best life I can.

If you feel better locked down, I suggest you continue but I’m tired of people looking down on those of us that have no choice.


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## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

There is a difference between locked down and attending large gatherings and refusing to social distance and not wearing a mask. There are things that can be done to mitigate the spread while still living your life and doing your job. I see people doing that everyday. I do ot everyday. You do have that choice.


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## robin416 (Dec 29, 2019)

There is one other thing to consider, many of those that ended up in ICUs never fully recover. They suffer from various organ damage for the rest of their lives.


----------



## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

The small things like wearing a mask mitigate the spread giving more time to the medical community to find ways to treat the virus. That will save lives, save people future heath problems and save money in medical expenses.

Already they know that ecmo is better than putting them on a vent.


----------



## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

SRSLADE said:


> 130,000 Americans dead and 30,000 a month dying from Covid.


If you believe the hype


----------



## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

painterswife said:


> There are things that can be done to mitigate the spread while still *living your life and doing your job.*


Only if you're *allowed*.
That's the problem you keep ignoring.


----------



## SLADE (Feb 20, 2004)

Bearfootfarm said:


> If you believe the hype


I actually know people that died from it. For me it's not hype.


----------



## GTX63 (Dec 13, 2016)

SRSLADE said
_"I think some may need a bigger library rather than form an opinion on one article.
It's easy to fall into a trap when your own prejudice is reinforced by a simple story."_

But personal examples count only for ye, lol?

Confirmation Bias- the tendency to interpret new evidence as confirmation of one's existing beliefs or theories.


----------



## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

painterswife said:


> attending large gatherings


Like riots, or are riots OK?


----------



## GTX63 (Dec 13, 2016)

The groupthink term is engaged protesting.


----------



## SLADE (Feb 20, 2004)

The alterative is called ignorance.


----------



## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

SRSLADE said:


> The alterative is called ignorance.


Oh what a world it would be
If we were all as wise as ye


----------



## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

Coronavirus Pandemic Data Explorer


Research and data to make progress against the world’s largest problems




ourworldindata.org


----------



## SLADE (Feb 20, 2004)

Lets see the chart per billion and it may have vanished.
It would be a miracle.


----------



## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

A harrowing number


----------



## goodatit (May 1, 2013)

Fishindude said:


> There is a lot of talk out there that Covid is largely a made up illness, just another strain of the flu and no more serious or deadly than other strains of the flu. There is also a lot of talk that just about anybody that dies from anything respiratory lately is being classified a Covid death without autopsy being done, etc. Many of those that have passed away recently and called Covid deaths were elderly or those with pre-existing conditions that could have been fatal had they contracted just about any strain of the flu or virus.
> 
> There is a lot of talk that the whole thing was implemented to shut down the robust economy we had going in the US, to lessen the chance of Trump being re-elected. There is talk that the whole thing is about government control, to crush small business owners and get more people dependant on the hand outs, unemployment, etc. There is continued talks of extending restrictions, keeping our freedom to travel, interact, and do many of the things we all like to do on hold even longer.
> 
> ...


Rahmn Emmanuel once said "never let a good crisis go to waste".


----------



## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

The media is very successful at creating alarm


----------



## keenataz (Feb 17, 2009)

HDRider said:


> The media is very successful at creating alarm
> 
> View attachment 89327


It is getting worse.


----------



## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

keenataz said:


> *It is getting worse.*


Not one piece of data supports that

Infections rates are declining
Death rates are declining

How is that worse?


----------



## Alice In TX/MO (May 10, 2002)

To buy into the spin being placed on Corona Virus statistics you must believe:

1. the early testing results were accurate
2. the testing at ANY time represented a statistically significant portion of the population 
3. the variables have remained the same for the whole course of tests (requirements to obtain test, etc.)
4. the tests ONLY react to one Corona virus strain
5. there is no benefit for hospitals and other testing entities to report other causes of death as Corona virus

That is off the top of my head. Therefore, I do not think the raw data is accurate, or that the “statistics” are accurate, or that the media is presenting unbiased information.


----------



## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

Alice In TX/MO said:


> To buy into the spin being placed on Corona Virus statistics you must believe:
> 
> 1. the early testing results were accurate
> 2. the testing at ANY time represented a statistically significant portion of the population
> ...


As with any problem solving, or analysis, you work with the best data you have.

That said, we have compound bad decisions made with bad data with the Covid. That too is common on attacking a new, and complex problem.


----------



## barnbilder (Jul 1, 2005)

What I find ironic is the people I know personally who are screaming about wearing masks, the need for shutdowns, etc. are all people that have been locked in their homes while the rest of us have been out working through this entire "pandemic". They are all of one political bent. Something visibly evident with most of them is the fact that they have taken very few steps to ensure any degree of a healthy outcome to their lives. And they want me to wear a mask to protect them. I suppose I need to go knock the fork out of their fat hand too?


----------



## SLADE (Feb 20, 2004)

You have been working. Thank you for your service.
Did you wear a mask?


----------



## GTX63 (Dec 13, 2016)

Barnbuilder, they can either afford to lock their doors and close the shudders, while shaming anyone else who doesn’t or they are sucking at the government’s trough. Bills aren’t an issue.
Either way, it seems to empower their intellect, lol.


----------



## SLADE (Feb 20, 2004)




----------



## mreynolds (Jan 1, 2015)

Many of my family are nurses. There are incidents of turning in clean, sterile swabs that come back positive Covid. Nurses were getting laid off during the first part of the pandemic because it was only Covid or emergency treatment. They decided to find out what was up and sent clean swabs. They found out real quick someone was jacking the numbers up for whatever reason. 

Then there are cases of hospitals that direct their nurses to keep testing a patient until they get at least one negative reading so they can call a false positive. I heard Athens Ga for one this weekend. They were directed (it is believed) to do this because they didnt want a panic. 

How do you believe the numbers when this kind of corruption goes on? Y'all can sit here and spout numbers all day and it will still not give you the answers you seek.


----------



## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

mreynolds said:


> Y'all can sit here and spout numbers all day and it will still not give you the answers you seek.


I am open to any suggestions you might offer


----------



## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

This is a good one - 
Social inequality matters, too. In the United States, *black people are far more likely than white people to become severely ill from the coronavirus, for example, most likely due in part to the country’s history of systemic racism.* It has left black people with a high rate of chronic diseases such as diabetes, as well as living conditions and jobs that may increase exposure to the virus. 


DNA linked to COVID-19 was inherited from Neanderthals: Study


----------



## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

And in another MSN article

“For African Americans, I would think the main reason for wanting to wear masks and doing other things to help prevent the spread of the virus is because of the health disparities in our community. *Whenever there’s any type of virus or illness, it tends to have a disproportionate effect on Black people.*” 


Masks are putting people at each other's throats, especially in Palm Beach County


----------



## Alice In TX/MO (May 10, 2002)

My suggestion is that we don’t post numbers, statistics, or spin.


----------



## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

Alice In TX/MO said:


> My suggestion is that we don’t post numbers, statistics, or spin.


Then all is left is posting posts to tell posters to not post


----------



## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

Alice In TX/MO said:


> My suggestion is that we don’t post numbers, statistics, or spin.


Or words....
Someone might be offended disproportionally....


----------



## Alice In TX/MO (May 10, 2002)

We could chat about homesteading. I know that’s a bit radical and outside of some folks’ comfort zones. Just a suggestion.


----------



## mreynolds (Jan 1, 2015)

HDRider said:


> I am open to any suggestions you might offer


I wish I had them. I would venture a guess the answer lies somewhere in between.


----------



## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

Alice In TX/MO said:


> We could chat about homesteading. I know that’s a bit radical and outside of some folks’ comfort zones. Just a suggestion.


There are many places for many posts. Is posting about current events that offensive to you?


----------



## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

mreynolds said:


> I wish I had them. I would venture a guess the answer lies somewhere in between.


As it most often does


----------



## Mish (Oct 15, 2015)

mreynolds said:


> Many of my family are nurses. There are incidents of turning in clean, sterile swabs that come back positive Covid. Nurses were getting laid off during the first part of the pandemic because it was only Covid or emergency treatment. They decided to find out what was up and sent clean swabs. They found out real quick someone was jacking the numbers up for whatever reason.
> 
> Then there are cases of hospitals that direct their nurses to keep testing a patient until they get at least one negative reading so they can call a false positive. I heard Athens Ga for one this weekend. They were directed (it is believed) to do this because they didnt want a panic.
> 
> How do you believe the numbers when this kind of corruption goes on? Y'all can sit here and spout numbers all day and it will still not give you the answers you seek.


I heard the same from some nurse relatives in Texas and South Carolina. Friends in nursing in Ohio had been saying (until very recently) that they couldn't even get testing kits, and doctors were deciding whether or not someone had Covid-19 based simply on symptoms. I'm sure those opinions went into the official numbers (or didn't if you had symptoms a doctor didn't like for Covid, whether it actually was or not, we'll never know).

This entire thing is either one giant incompetence parade or we are being railroaded. Both options suck, yet we keep begging for more incompetence/railroading, and hanging on every word from someone in "authority" even though the authorities continue to prove over and over that they cannot be trusted.


----------



## Alice In TX/MO (May 10, 2002)

Offensive? Who said anything about offensive?


----------



## Mish (Oct 15, 2015)

Alice In TX/MO said:


> We could chat about homesteading. I know that’s a bit radical and outside of some folks’ comfort zones. Just a suggestion.


Probably why I'm extra cranky. I just picked and processed about 120 lbs of tomatoes. It's 103 outside, literally had tomatoes stewing on the vine (pretty sure I was too). Plus I have one of my new pullets who keeps laying eggs in the bushes along the walkway instead of in the nesting box. I stepped on one of them on the way to dump the tomato skins, then stepped in brand new dog poo which apparently was deposited right before I walked through on the way back (flip flops, of course). 

Somehow talking about (my version of) homesteading isn't making me happier today


----------



## Alice In TX/MO (May 10, 2002)

Mish, I totally understand.


----------



## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

Alice In TX/MO said:


> We could chat about homesteading. I know that’s a bit radical and outside of some folks’ comfort zones. Just a suggestion.


That's what all those other rooms are for.


----------



## Alice In TX/MO (May 10, 2002)

I understand that, and I probably shouldn’t even read these threads. When I do, I am flabbergasted that it’s the same back and forth attacks and so little civil and productive conversation. 

Do you guys enjoy what goes on in these hostile threads?


----------



## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

Alice In TX/MO said:


> I understand that, and I probably shouldn’t even read these threads. When I do, I am flabbergasted that it’s the same back and forth attacks and so little civil and productive conversation.
> 
> Do you guys enjoy what goes on in these hostile threads?


I do not consider it hostile. It has some passion around it. Maybe it becomes unbridled at times, but yes, I enjoy it a lot. I would not do it otherwise.


----------



## mreynolds (Jan 1, 2015)

Mish said:


> I heard the same from some nurse relatives in Texas and South Carolina. Friends in nursing in Ohio had been saying (until very recently) that they couldn't even get testing kits, and doctors were deciding whether or not someone had Covid-19 based simply on symptoms. I'm sure those opinions went into the official numbers (or didn't if you had symptoms a doctor didn't like for Covid, whether it actually was or not, we'll never know).
> 
> This entire thing is either one giant incompetence parade or we are being railroaded. Both options suck, yet we keep begging for more incompetence/railroading, and hanging on every word from someone in "authority" even though the authorities continue to prove over and over that they cannot be trusted.


All I can do is go with what I actually know. I don't believe any of them because they all appear to have an agenda. Here is what I know. My MIL has been in 3 times in the last month with various things and all 3 times she has tested negative.


----------



## barnbilder (Jul 1, 2005)

I went into this thing with the knowledge that the FBI, which should be the most unflappable and non-partisan agency in the country, or possibly the world, had been involved with a partisan coup attempt. I deduced that agencies like the CDC would probably be even more likely to engage in such activity if given the chance. That and a basic working knowledge of biology and virology enabled me to see the hype for what it was, from the very beginning. I reserve mask wearing for situations that put me at risk for lung irritation, or a full respirator when dealing with huge numbers of potential zoonotic disease vectors. Covid 19 is not a huge concern. It might be capable of flu like death rates in humans predisposed to dying from respiratory illnesses. Probably be closer to the cold like symptoms that the other corona virus strains are capable of, once it finds it's evolutionary sweet spot.


----------



## CKelly78z (Jul 16, 2017)

I tend to agree with the OP on most of what they said. It is all a ruse to prevent any presidential debates (for obvious reasons), and to allow for mail in voting, which will be handled by a post office that has already endorsed the opposing candidate.


----------



## wr (Aug 10, 2003)

First cleanup.


----------



## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

New deaths from novel coronavirus in the U.S. reached a low of around 250 on July 5, the lowest single-day death toll reported since around late March. 









U.S. Coronavirus Daily Deaths Lowest Since March—But Don't Get Too Excited


The daily death count in the U.S. has been on a mostly declining trend since its peak around late April.




www.newsweek.com


----------



## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

HDRider said:


> New deaths from novel coronavirus in the U.S. reached a low of around 250 on July 5, the lowest single-day death toll reported since around late March.


CBS actually admitted yesterday the death numbers have been dropping for weeks now.
That's why they switched to hyping the "new infection" numbers.


----------



## wdcutrsdaughter (Dec 9, 2012)

Fishindude said:


> There is a lot of talk out there that Covid is largely a made up illness........... I'm curious where others stand on this?





HDRider said:


> I am open to any suggestions you might offer


I don't remember if I mentioned this here before but you might find the website questioningcovid.com to be an interesting look at things through different lens.
I am not saying it has all the absolute answers. Just other viewpoints you may not have heard.


----------



## SLADE (Feb 20, 2004)

I read this in the Guardian.

0:39
*US coronavirus death toll surpasses 130,000*
The US’s coronavirus death toll topped 130,000 on Monday amid a surge in cases that has put president *Donald Trump*’s handling of the crisis under the microscope and derailed efforts to restart the economy.
The overall rate of increase in US deaths has continued to trend downward despite case numbers surging to record levels in recent days, but health experts warn that fatalities are a lagging indicator, showing up weeks or even months after cases rise.








Florida’s Lauderdale Beach on the 4th of July was closed as hard-hit south Florida shut down its beaches amid the Covid-19 pandemic. Photograph: Michele Eve Sandberg/REX/Shutterstock
At least five states have already bucked the downward trend in the death rate, according to a Reuters analysis. *Arizona* had 449 deaths in the last two weeks of June, up from 259 deaths in the first two weeks of the month. The state posted a 300% rise in cases over the full month, the most in the country.
Nationally, cases are approaching 3m, the highest tally in the world and double the infections reported in the second most-affected nation *Brazil*.
Sixteen states have posted record daily increases in new cases since the start of July including *Florida*, which confirmed more than 11,000 in a single day. As well as the state’s largest one-day rise so far, that was more than any European country reported in a single day at the height of the crisis there.
As health experts cautioned the public not to gather in crowds to celebrate *Independence Day* over the weekend, Trump asserted without providing evidence that 99% of American coronavirus cases were “totally harmless”.
Steve Adler, the Democratic mayor of *Austin*, Texas, on Monday criticised the president’s comment over the weekend that the virus was mostly harmless. He told CNN:


> It’s incredibly disruptive and the messaging coming from the president of the United States is dangerous.
> One of the biggest challenges we have is the messaging coming out of Washington that would suggest that masks don’t work or it’s not necessary, or that the virus is going away on its own.


The US *Center for Disease Control and Prevention* has forecast between 140,000 to 160,000 coronavirus deaths by July 25 in projections that are based on 24 independent forecasts. The forecast projects a rise in deaths in Arizona, Arkansas, Florida, Idaho, Nevada, Oklahoma, Oregon, South Carolina, Texas, Utah and Wyoming, according to the CDC website.
Update


----------



## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

SLADE said:


> I read this in the Guardian


I know you like to focus on bad news. Maybe you missed the good news



HDRider said:


> New deaths from novel coronavirus in the U.S. reached a low of around 250 on July 5, the lowest single-day death toll reported since around late March.


----------



## SLADE (Feb 20, 2004)

You should read my post I think it's more accurate


----------



## Alice In TX/MO (May 10, 2002)

That is a fascinating collection of information.


----------



## SLADE (Feb 20, 2004)

We keep putting the cart before the horse.
Until we have all the numbers which come to us over time we're just guessing.


----------



## Alice In TX/MO (May 10, 2002)

Until the numbers are accurate and represent the same type of data over time, they are just guessing.


----------



## Redlands Okie (Nov 28, 2017)

SLADE said:


> I read this in the Guardian.
> 
> 0:39
> *US coronavirus death toll surpasses 130,000*
> ...


Ok, now I am confused. All of these politicians making covid comments and I do not see one single comment in their speeches where they provide a link for the information they are tossing out


----------



## keenataz (Feb 17, 2009)

Redlands Okie said:


> Ok, now I am confused. All of these politicians making covid comments and I do not see one single comment in their speeches where they provide a link for the information they are tossing out


So everyone is lying? Politicians, government employees, doctors, hurdles, coroners, families, friends?


----------



## Alice In TX/MO (May 10, 2002)

Everyone sees through their own filters.


----------



## keenataz (Feb 17, 2009)

Alice In TX/MO said:


> Everyone sees through their own filters.


Yoda?
Just kidding based on your picture.

Star Wars rocks.


----------



## Alice In TX/MO (May 10, 2002)

We are getting bull s#:[email protected] 

The test is a farce. Please read. It’s long and technical. It explains how the test doesn’t test what it is being advertised to do. 










Was the COVID-19 Test Meant to Detect a Virus? - UncoverDC


The Corona Simulation Machine: Why the Inventor of The “Corona Test” Would Have Warned Us Not To Use It To Detect A Virus“Scientists are doing an awful lot of damage to the world in the name of helping it. I don't mind attacking my own fraternity because I am ashamed of it.” --Kary Mullis...




uncoverdc.com


----------



## Alice In TX/MO (May 10, 2002)

“What do we mean when we say a person “tests positive” for Covid-19?

We don’t actually mean they have been found to “have” it.

We’ve been hijacked by our technologies, but left illiterate about what they actually mean. In this case, I am in the rare position of having known, spent time with, and interviewed the inventor of the method used in the presently available Covid-19 tests, which is called PCR, (Polymerase Chain Reaction.)”

The tests look for DNA fragments. Not active virus.


“PCR detects a very small segment of the nucleic acid which is part of a virus itself. The specific fragment detected is determined by the somewhat arbitrary choice of DNA primers used which become the ends of the amplified fragment. “


----------



## Alice In TX/MO (May 10, 2002)

“There was a famous Chinese paper that estimated that if you’re testing asymptomatic people, up to 80% of positives could be false positive. That was kind of shocking, so shocking that PubMed had to withdraw the abstract even though the Chinese paper appears to still be published and available. I actually have a translation with a friend. I translated it into English and it’s a really, standard calculation of what they call positive predictive value. The abstract basically said that in asymptomatic populations, the chance of a positive coronavirus test being a true positive is only about 20%. 80% will be false positive.”


“Doesn’t that mean the test means nothing?” I asked.

“The Chinese analysis was a mathematical analysis, a standard, the standard analysis that’s been done a million times before. There’s no reason to withdraw the paper for any reason. There’s nothing dramatic about the paper. It’s a really boring analysis. It’s just that they did the standard analysis and said, in some populations, like they estimated 1% of people are actually infected in the population. You could have 80% false positive. “


----------



## Alice In TX/MO (May 10, 2002)

I could go on, but I highly recommend that you read the whole article. 

The science is bad. The methodology is bad. The interpretations of the test results are bad. 


“”David, in conclusion, finish this sentence: “The PCR test for Corona is as good as…”

His reply made me laugh. I didn’t know I still could laugh.

“It’s as good as that Scientology test that detects your personality and then tells you need to give all your money to Scientology. “”


----------



## keenataz (Feb 17, 2009)

Alice In TX/MO said:


> It’s as good as that Scientology test that detects your personality and then tells you need to give all your money to Scientology. “”


you took that test too?


----------



## Alice In TX/MO (May 10, 2002)

No. That was a quotation from the article.


----------



## Redlands Okie (Nov 28, 2017)

Then it seems the current testing is designed to make sure we set at home and do not get any more money. Just a different little different version of the Scientology taking your money.


----------



## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

Alice In TX/MO said:


> His reply made me laugh. *I didn’t know I still could laugh*


You should laugh loud, and laugh often. We all should.

We should laugh at ourselves, and all those around us.

We should laugh with others, and laugh at others.

Laugh is life


----------



## poppy (Feb 21, 2008)

HDRider said:


> You should laugh loud, and laugh often. We all should.
> 
> We should laugh at ourselves, and all those around us.
> 
> ...



But wear a mask when laughing out loud or you might kill someone.


----------



## poppy (Feb 21, 2008)

Corona - The Simple Truth In Less Than 6 Minutes - Vimeo - LewRockwell







www.lewrockwell.com


----------



## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

poppy said:


> Corona - The Simple Truth In Less Than 6 Minutes - Vimeo - LewRockwell
> 
> 
> 
> ...


The simple truth according to Lew Rockwell and his libertarian and a self-professed anarcho capitalist view.


----------



## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

Irish Pixie said:


> The simple truth according to Lew Rockwell and his libertarian and a self-professed anarcho capitalist view.


I thought you supported anarchist?


----------



## poppy (Feb 21, 2008)

HDRider said:


> Especially when you cannot offer a cogent reply



It is hard for those who bought into the early estimates of millions of deaths in the next 6 months to admit they were lied to.


----------



## mreynolds (Jan 1, 2015)

Having A Coronavirus doesn't mean you have Covid-19. All the test does is see if you have a Coronavirus. A common cold can be that type of virus. SARS and other stuff also. 

You have to look at what is said and not read too much into it.


----------



## mreynolds (Jan 1, 2015)

SLADE said:


> I read this in the Guardian.
> 
> 0:39
> *US coronavirus death toll surpasses 130,000*
> ...


How many of those deaths were Covid-19 and how many were either types of coronavirus?


----------



## wdcutrsdaughter (Dec 9, 2012)

Alice In TX/MO said:


> That is a fascinating collection of information.


I thought so too, but haven't looked at everything.

I like this line from the article you referenced 
"First, a spiritual law: Anything that tries to frighten you comes from “opposition,” in spiritual battle."

Really though, I hate reading that we are being duped when I see friends of mine following right along.
What a time to practice being in the moment and not freaking TF out.



HDRider said:


> You should laugh loud, and laugh often. We all should.
> 
> We should laugh at ourselves, and all those around us.
> 
> ...


Laughing is also good for health 🤓

This is my favorite way to laugh lately. I've watched this at least 6 times now. Guess which things I've actually said.


----------



## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

HDRider said:


> I thought you supported anarchist?


No, I don't. I thought you did...


----------



## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

Irish Pixie said:


> No, I don't. I thought you did...


I thought you were a big fan of this lady


----------



## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

HDRider said:


> I thought you were a big fan of this lady


It's patently obvious which of us is the fan.


----------



## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

Irish Pixie said:


> It's patently obvious which of us is the fan.


She is the poster child for everything wrong in this country. That is why I expect you like her.


----------



## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

Irish Pixie said:


> The simple truth according to Lew Rockwell and his libertarian and a self-professed anarcho capitalist view.













Irish Pixie said:


> It's patently obvious which of us is the fan.


Many things are "patently obvious".


----------



## Danaus29 (Sep 12, 2005)

To those saying covid 19 was first diagnosed in the US 4 months ago, please update your chronometers. January is now almost 7 months ago.








Coronavirus Disease 2019 Case Surveillance — United States ...


This report describes the most common underlying health conditions among COVID-19 cases in the United States as of May 30, 2020.




www.cdc.gov


----------



## GTX63 (Dec 13, 2016)

They seem to have been hoping for a Mad Max blockbuster but so far with the script they are following it is about up to par with Beyond Thunderdome.


----------



## Alice In TX/MO (May 10, 2002)

The Stand

Andromeda Strain


----------



## RobertDane (Feb 14, 2020)

I think its a mistake to say that because an area doesn't have a very high occurrence of corona, that its not a threat.

That it's a liberal plot to inflame the population against republicans....etc...Its a terrible threat..Killed hundreds of 

thousands and has skyrocketed to the front of all nations with 1000s of people in this country having to go into hospitals

and hundreds of deaths yet to come from this latest surge...A surge propagated with blessings by the white house...


----------



## GTX63 (Dec 13, 2016)

Who has said the wuflu is not a threat?


----------



## SLADE (Feb 20, 2004)

Using the term Wuflu kind of says it all.


----------



## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

Alice In TX/MO said:


> The Stand
> 
> Andromeda Strain


The Stand is one of favorite Stephen King books.


----------



## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

RobertDane said:


> .A surge propagated with blessings by the white house...


----------



## B&L Chicken Ranch and Spa (Jan 4, 2019)

Danaus29 said:


> My brother knew an early covid victim. My daughter knew a covid victim. Hubby's brother knows several people who were hospitalized with covid.
> 
> If my Christmas virus was covid (which was circulating in Ohio in December) it is a really horrible nasty disease. That was the sickest I have ever been, took months to recover.
> 
> I think we are being BS'd. When they started uncovering early covid cases the antibody tests were pulled.


Hi. I live in Western Washington and I had the WuFlu over Christmas. I am older and it was bad, but obviously not insurmountable. Where I work people, even now, have to sty home because they "have it" but I do no personally know anyone who actually had it. Given the number of scares that is amazing to me. It is a bad flu because it is a different type, and we will "all" get it eventually. 

The politics of the Wuflu are disgusting and is in line with current politics where everyone can say what they want, but only one side gets checked, races played against each other.

Here in Wa, the WuFlu is being used to control the populace and keep the liberals in power here.

I cannot wait to return to Maine.


----------



## 382664 (May 26, 2017)

In 1918, the Spanish Flu estimated to have killed at least 50 million people worldwide with around 675,000 in the US— they used quarantining, non medical solutions to try to contain the spread and fight it. It had lasted from 1918 - 1920.


----------



## RobertDane (Feb 14, 2020)

Bearfootfarm said:


> View attachment 89430


From little kiddy deniers....


----------



## Hiro (Feb 14, 2016)

SLADE said:


> Using the term Wuflu kind of says it all.


Indeed, using the original location of a virus outbreak does say a lot. Particularly, if it likely was culture there and hamhandedly covered up there and then deceived about it there....yeah, that says it all.


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## barnbilder (Jul 1, 2005)

barbaralee said:


> In 1918, the Spanish Flu estimated to have killed at least 50 million people worldwide with around 675,000 in the US— they used quarantining, non medical solutions to try to contain the spread and fight it. It had lasted from 1918 - 1920.


Too bad we didn't learn from the mistakes we made in 1918. The only effective defense for a respiratory infectious disease is the one we have built in. Self produced antibodies, the most perfect vaccine for any disease, which leads to herd immunity. It has worked for thousands of years. Even worked great for polio until our tolerances for filth were compromised during the industrial revolution. Delaying the natural bell curve of an infectious outbreak, as described by Dr. Farr in 1840, only increases overall deaths. It's like wildfire, poof, it's gone, and the grass grows back in days. What the politicalized medical community is doing right now is the equivalent of managing a wildfire byof piling all of the fuel in one place at a time for a soil sterilizing slow burn. It's ridiculous, has no basis in science, and is purely political. Yeah it's ugly when people die, but that is what people do when they get done living. If you manage to raise a couple offspring to breeding age, population stays the same.


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## Danaus29 (Sep 12, 2005)

B&L Chicken Ranch and Spa said:


> Hi. I live in Western Washington and I had the WuFlu over Christmas. I am older and it was bad, but obviously not insurmountable. Where I work people, even now, have to sty home because they "have it" but I do no personally know anyone who actually had it. Given the number of scares that is amazing to me. It is a bad flu because it is a different type, and we will "all" get it eventually.
> 
> The politics of the Wuflu are disgusting and is in line with current politics where everyone can say what they want, but only one side gets checked, races played against each other.
> 
> ...


Most of the people we know with verified cases have said it is the worst stuff they ever had. I am all in favor of sick, contagious people being forced to stay home. 

If covid is what I had, I would not wish it on anyone! Except maybe the person who stole my van. I am still not totally over it, nearly 8 months later. Not being able to breathe sucks!


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## [email protected] (Sep 16, 2009)

this is to the people who insist on calling it a strain of flu.. go ahead and call it what ever you wish, but people are still dying from it..
and for the people who insist that deaths are over stated by 25% . fine. so instead of 130,000 deaths, there are ''only'' about 80,000. 
There now, doesn't that make you feel better ?
Just because you don't know somebody personally that has it, doesn't mean it doesn't exist. I know 3 people right now.. so it does exist to me..


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## Alice In TX/MO (May 10, 2002)

NOBODY said it doesn’t exist.


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## wr (Aug 10, 2003)

[email protected] said:


> this is to the people who insist on calling it a strain of flu.. go ahead and call it what ever you wish, but people are still dying from it..
> and for the people who insist that deaths are over stated by 25% . fine. so instead of 130,000 deaths, there are ''only'' about 80,000.
> There now, doesn't that make you feel better ?
> Just because you don't know somebody personally that has it, doesn't mean it doesn't exist. I know 3 people right now.. so it does exist to me..


Nobody said it didn't exist. I know people who've had it too and like most, they recovered. I also know two people who committed suicide because of the economic implications, dozens who can't properly bury family members, seniors who are locked away from family in nursing homes, I'm going broke delivering meals to seniors too afraid to leave their homes and the mental health of children are being seriously impacted. Those people are real and matter to somebody also. 

I also know that essential services worked through the first phase, we were left with no PPE, hand sanitizer was unavailable and no access to hand washing facilities and none in the group I know in several countries caught it. 

I don't have any more answers than anyone else but I do know there's way more than one side to the problem and we can't remain locked down indefinately.


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

[email protected] said:


> this is to the people who insist on calling it a strain of flu.. go ahead and call it what ever you wish, but people are still dying from it..
> and for the people who insist that deaths are over stated by 25% . fine. so instead of 130,000 deaths, there are ''only'' about 80,000.
> There now, doesn't that make you feel better ?
> Just because you don't know somebody personally that has it, doesn't mean it doesn't exist. I know 3 people right now.. so it does exist to me..


You really are not paying very close attention to what people are saying.


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## B&L Chicken Ranch and Spa (Jan 4, 2019)

Danaus29 said:


> Most of the people we know with verified cases have said it is the worst stuff they ever had. I am all in favor of sick, contagious people being forced to stay home.
> 
> If covid is what I had, I would not wish it on anyone! Except maybe the person who stole my van. I am still not totally over it, nearly 8 months later. Not being able to breathe sucks!


I agree, it is a bad flu, and, yes, it took me about 4 months to recover. I also agree that is you are sick-stay home. Otherwise, let US get on with our lives and stop driving the US into Bankruptcy. Life is not safe and none of US get out of it alive. I do not want, nor do I want anyone else, to loose everything and be a ward of the state. From where I sit it appears a certain partei wants that. Not me.


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)




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## SLADE (Feb 20, 2004)

This was the beginning.
*What Really Doomed America's Coronavirus Response - The ...*
www.theatlantic.com › technology › archive › 2020/03

Mar 24, 2020 - _America's coronavirus_ response failed because we didn't understand the complexity ... before the crisis, and later by denying its _existence_ and its severity. ... week after China's government shifted from a _deny_-and-censor strategy to ... It also confirmed the reports that the disease _was_ most dangerous for the ...
*COVID-19 alert*


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## Alice In TX/MO (May 10, 2002)

Stachiovak,
The deniers were not the members of this forum. Your rant appeared to be aimed here. Please aim it at the Chinese government.


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## SLFarmMI (Feb 21, 2013)

As with everything, the truth lies in the data. Do the math and you can answer the "are we being BSed" question for yourself.

1. What percentage of 331,002,651 is 3,306,786? That will give you the percentage of cases in the US based on currently available data.

2. CDC states the hospitalization rate is 107.2 per 100,000. Do the math and you will find the percentage of positive cases that resulted in hospitalization.

3. What percentage of 3,306,786 is 136,835? That will give you the percentage of fatalities.

That's what the data says. It is up to every individual to interpret what that data means to them and to determine what actions they should take.


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

SLFarmMI said:


> 1. What percentage of 331,002,651 is 3,306,786? That will give you the percentage of cases in the US based on currently available data.


0.9990210018%



SLFarmMI said:


> 3. What percentage of 3,306,786 is 136,835? That will give you the percentage of fatalities.


4.1380059066% 





__





22 what percentage 4212 - Search







www.bing.com


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## SLFarmMI (Feb 21, 2013)

Bearfootfarm said:


> 0.9990210018%
> 
> 
> 4.1380059066%
> ...


Thanks but I know that. I wasn't actually asking how to do the math.


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## Redlands Okie (Nov 28, 2017)

SLFarmMI said:


> As with everything, the truth lies in the data. Do the math and you can answer the "are we being BSed" question for yourself.
> 
> 1. What percentage of 331,002,651 is 3,306,786? That will give you the percentage of cases in the US based on currently available data.
> 
> ...


To many people are perfectly willing to have others determine the actions needed and it seems many are willing to reap the short term benefits from doing so.


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## SLFarmMI (Feb 21, 2013)

Redlands Okie said:


> To many people are perfectly willing to have others determine the actions needed and it seems many are willing to reap the short term benefits from doing so.


True, but that's nothing new.


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## homesteadforty (Dec 4, 2007)

Alice In TX/MO said:


> NOBODY said it doesn’t exist.


Please reread discussion starter (post #1).

While it's not specifically stated that it doesn't exist it most certainly states that:



Fishindude said:


> ...Covid is largely a *made up illness,* just another strain of the flu and no more serious or deadly than other strains of the flu...
> 
> ...There is a lot of talk that the whole thing *was implemented* to shut down the robust economy... ...There is talk that the whole thing is about government control...
> 
> ...


and the information is cited by "There is a lot of talk"... can't get much more authoritative than that .


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## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

Homesteadforty, your sig line in Scots Gaelic is "Cha togar m' fhearg gun dìoladh". I like it.


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

SLFarmMI said:


> Thanks but I know that. I wasn't actually asking how to do the math.


I wasn't asking if you knew.


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## homesteadforty (Dec 4, 2007)

Irish Pixie said:


> Homesteadforty, your sig line in Scots Gaelic is "Cha togar m' fhearg gun dìoladh". I like it.


Thanks... I'm actually getting ready to try to learn Scots Gaelic. It may be a little tough without a native speaker around  .


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

homesteadforty said:


> Thanks... I'm actually getting ready to try to learn Scots Gaelic. It may be a little tough without a native speaker around  .


Maybe @Irish Pixie will give you lessons. Try Zoom or something.


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## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

HDRider said:


> Maybe @Irish Pixie will give you lessons. Try Zoom or something.





homesteadforty said:


> Thanks... I'm actually getting ready to try to learn Scots Gaelic. It may be a little tough without a native speaker around  .


I suggest an audio program. Amazon has a few good ones.


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## homesteadforty (Dec 4, 2007)

Irish Pixie said:


> I suggest an audio program. Amazon has a few good ones.


OMG... believe it or not I've never been on Amazon before... they have almost everything. Thanks much! I just had my daughter order cd's and a couple of books for me... Thanks again!


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