# Let's talk about English Shepherds



## sugarspinner (May 12, 2002)

Tell me what you know about English Shepherds- general disposition, pros and cons, as a family/farm dog, your personal experiences. Thanks.


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## BarbadosSheep (Jun 27, 2011)

I have no personal experience but did a ton of homework because I had planned on getting one. I wanted a dog that was a great all around farm dog, one that was protective, easy to train and not loaded with health problems. This is not an AKC breed and the breed enthusiasts intend to keep it that way. They are UKC though and there is also a breed registry for them. There are few health issues that they can have though, so find a breeder who tests for these things. The most common is a gene mutation called MDR-1. This mutation is what makes this breed and other collie dogs sensitive to some medications including anesthesia and Ivemectin. Hip Dysplasia also occurs in the breed but a breeder who is testing for MDR-1 is probably also testing for HD. There are some individuals within the breed that seem to be a little nervous so make sure the pup's parents have temperament that you like. Don't be put off if the parents don't take to you right away though, this is common in the breed. They can be suspicious of strangers. Id love to have an English Shepherd some day, but this isn't the right time for us. I will get one some day though!


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## BarbadosSheep (Jun 27, 2011)

here's a really good link for you .

http://www.englishshepherds.net/faq.html


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## CAjerseychick (Aug 11, 2013)

Cool 
I love their look- not too pointy snouted like the rough Collie (I heard someone introduced Borzoi into AKC collies back in the day, which is why they have such narrow heads, not a look I prefer anyway)....


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## Maura (Jun 6, 2004)

Show collies have borzoi in them, which gives that that hatchet head and beady eyes. I'd never have one. A herding rough collie or English shepherd would be a much better dog I'd think.


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## Allen W (Aug 2, 2008)

Hard headed and independent, they tend to be one person dogs. The one I had would listen to my little boy better then she would my wife. If the breeder tells you to stay in your vehicle until he comes and gets you, you have found a true old time English Shepard.


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## Pony (Jan 6, 2003)

We have an English Shepherd/Border Collie cross.

Intelligent, hard-working, lovable, loyal. I wouldn't call him "hardheaded" and certainly not independent. His dad (pure English Shep) looked to his owner for direction, and lived to please his humans.


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## Allen W (Aug 2, 2008)

Pony 

I wasn't saying any thing bad about English Shepards but bull headiness and independence is a trait in part of them and for some people it is a problem or a surprise when they aren't the perfect out of the box puppy they were lead to believe when they bought them. 

The only problem I have with them is they have too much hair, a slicker haired dog would be better for me here.


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## Pony (Jan 6, 2003)

No bright-witted herding dog is a "perfect out of the box puppy" (love that term!) I'm sure you know that they are working dogs who make work for their owners - at least up front. They need to have a job, and if you don't give them one, by golly, they'll find one. It may NOT be the job you want them to do. LOL!

We have the fur problem settled by shaving the poor guy down. Between heat and fleas, it's the only way to handle it.

That said, he sure is pretty when his fur grows out into those flowing shiny black feathers... 'Course, there's the problem of his splashing when he lifts.


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## TedH71 (Jan 19, 2003)

They can be all over the board in terms of herding ability. Some can and some won't and some are real strong. Be aware of that when doing research for ones that are specifically bred for herding.


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## Allen W (Aug 2, 2008)

An old timer told me he had one when he was a kid that would point quail as good as any bird dog. I don't think he was storying but he was the village story teller.

They are a good general purpose farm dog. If you told us what you expect the dog to do it would help.


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## sugarspinner (May 12, 2002)

Well, I didn't give any specifics because I really just wanted some "personal experience" thoughts. We do have an ES puppy, female and 12 weeks old. She seems very intelligent and trainable. We are really looking to make her into a good all-around farm dog; one that will be a good watch dog without being mean. At this point, your answers and our experience and research, seem to indicate she should be okay for that. Yes, hard-headed and independent. The hair is no problem. She is a replacement for a Lab / Bassett cross, who was a sweetheart but got run over. We'd been looking at ESs since before we acquired the Lab. She actually has nothing except some barn cats and chickens (if they get lose) to herd. Oh, and grandchildren.


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## Pony (Jan 6, 2003)

sugarspinner said:


> She actually has nothing except some barn cats and chickens (if they get lose) to herd. Oh, and grandchildren.


Oh, that's enough for now! Scout herds the poultry, and tries to separate them according to purpose or (I am not kidding) color. We thought dogs were supposed to be color blind, but Scout can tell the difference between silver-laced Wyandottes and Cinnamon Queens. We figure anyone can tell an ugly Leghorn from any other breed, so he doesn't get points for those.


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## Allen W (Aug 2, 2008)

Mine would hide from the oldest grandson when he came, she just couldn't deal with him. As far as being mean I wouldn't say they are but they will take care of business when needed.


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## GrannieD (Sep 13, 2003)

I picked up a pup 2wks.ago that is 3/4ES 1/4 rough collie..Copper is 3 months old today & the nicest youngster I could imagine getting at 10 wks..His breeder did a wonderful job getting him started on his manners..He isn't wired like my Aussie..Constantly keeps track of where I am while we are gardening.. Sits when told & goes on a leash & ties by the porch..He knows the word Kennel & goes to it..(I feed there & he has Jill for company..) 
I am home most of the time so spend a lot of time with him while choring...My intention is for him to be my security system so I know when someone drives in..Jill Aussie invites them in with no notice & will gladly go for a car ride with anyone..I got her as a 9 month old & she had been passed around a lot..Also is not trustworthy if left on her own so is either with me or kenneled..
Copper is called a farm collie..All of the dogs I remember growing up on the farm had the character of protecter,livestock herder, plus most could be squirrel dogs..Both of his parents are doing that at their farm..
Go to this site to see what they say about them.. Onegoodfarmdog.com Enjoy !! GrannieD


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## sugarspinner (May 12, 2002)

Oh GrannieD, I looked to be sure you aren't from near where we got our dog, because that looks just like her and the age is right. Ours is, however, purebred. Well anyway, your message was encouraging though our Mollie does seem a bit wired. Many years ago, our daughter who owned a GSD, said, "Don't get a dog that's too smart or when you tell him to do something, you'll be able to watch his face as he processes that idea and then decides that he has a better idea." Mollie seems to be a bit like that part of the time. But, we're working on the obedience thing. She's anxious to please (especially if a treat is involved) but also has her own notions about how things should go. And, yes I already know, if you give in to an ES, your battle becomes 10 times as difficult.


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## Allen W (Aug 2, 2008)

One pup at a time is what the old gentleman I got my English Shepord from said.


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## terradura (Mar 19, 2012)

We have two English Shepherds. Both are eager to please and want to be right by their people. They have zero desire to run off. They are EASY to train, so easy that sometimes I'm not even sure when it happens. I discourage them from chasing other animals (such as rabbits) so they don't do it. If I encouraged it, I'm sure they would take to it with pleasure. When I walk through the sagebrush with the male, he quarters like a bird dog. I'm sure he would work real well on quail. They both alert us to anything out of the ordinary around the place, especially the little girl pup. A ladder blew over behind the house a couple weeks ago and she barked at it until I came out and put it back up. Both our dogs, and the parents of each (so that's a total of 6 dogs) are reserved with strangers. We need to introduce unfamiliar people to our dogs. A hug or a handshake signals all is OK. Once introduced they are fine with new people, but I would say that early socialization work with other people and other dogs is important with this breed. Our dogs are most wary of men, are immediately accepting of most women, and LOVE all little kids. As far as the coat and shedding, they do shed some, but not excessively, and the coats seem to clean themselves. After petting them, my hands feel clean, unlike the oily feeling after petting some dogs. 
This is our experience, but I know there is variation in the breed. Ours are calm, smart, highly bonded, and eager to please. They are really a joy to be around.


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## Haven (Aug 16, 2010)

I have seen a lot of dogs of this type in old black and white historical US photos. The last few pics I saw were of native Americans posing with these dogs. I would not be surprised if there is blood from a lot of the earliest English-imported dogs floating around in ES.


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## cedarcreekranch (Nov 24, 2010)

My dad had one, she was sable and adored him. He kept a few hogs and she'd watch the gate for him. When he sold out and moved into town, she came to live with us - she was one of several dogs we had but she was the one who stuck by my side no matter what I was doing. My daughter was about 4 and one day Buffy(the dog) kept pushing her with her shoulder, moving her away from something. I went to see what she was doing and my daughter had found a toad and wanted to look at it. Finally Buffy couldn't keep her away so she killed the toad! Poor girl, she was frothing and shaking her head but she was determined to protect her charge from the ferocious toad! She was a very sweet dog but not long after we got her, she went down one evening just totally unexpectedly. I rushed her into town to the vet, who called the shelter to get a dog for a blood transfusion (she was bleeding internally) but it was too late. He did a necropsy on her and she had something wrong with her liver and it (don't remember if it was the liver or a tumor or what) had ruptured and started bleeding. It was heartbreaking as she was truly a sweet, wonderful dog. Don't know if they're all like she was but if so, it's a wonderful breed.


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## GrannieD (Sep 13, 2003)

I've enjoyed reading the interest in ES..& as I live on Cedar Creek esp. your comments..I think the key to the value of these dogs is the amount of time given to them in a day to day farm setting..My pup amazes me with his puppy interest in things, but he aims to be with me fixing fence or yard work..when needed I use a long-line to encourage him to stay as his puppy mind is still getting aquainted with goats & ponies..He goes back to a safe place .. GrannieD


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## sugarspinner (May 12, 2002)

Thanks everyone of you for your comments on ESs. You've given me some tips on things to watch for and other ideas. I've enjoyed the input you've offered about characteristics of the breed. I can see nearly everything you've mentioned in our Mollie. The thing I noticed most is that nearly all of you who own ESs, really seem to have loved that dog. So far, we're really enjoying her.


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## fadedpolaris (Jan 8, 2013)

Pony said:


> We thought dogs were supposed to be color blind, but Scout can tell the difference between silver-laced Wyandottes and Cinnamon Queens.


http://blogs.smithsonianmag.com/science/2013/07/new-study-shows-that-dogs-use-color-vision-after-all/

Sorry, I can't help but to leave this here. I thought it was very interesting.
Sorry for the thread hijack. lol.


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## Pony (Jan 6, 2003)

fadedpolaris said:


> http://blogs.smithsonianmag.com/sci...y-shows-that-dogs-use-color-vision-after-all/
> 
> Sorry, I can't help but to leave this here. I thought it was very interesting.
> Sorry for the thread hijack. lol.


Hey! So my dogs can see the same as my future SIL (he's red-green colorblind).

If you want to see what colors look like to your dog, check the article here:

http://science.howstuffworks.com/life/human-biology/colorblindness2.htm


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