# This is awful...



## Tracy Rimmer (May 9, 2002)

> "Nights are the worst because you feel like you're outside when you're inside," said Josey, who sleeps under three blankets and wears longjohns under her pajamas. "It's like we're going back to barbaric times where we had to go find food and clothing and shelter."


NYC bracing for more heavy weather - World - CBC News

I mean, seriously, "barbaric times" because you have to have THREE blankets??? And provide for your own food and clothing and shelter???

It's going to be a very, very tough winter for some


----------



## 7thswan (Nov 18, 2008)

Ok, get 2 dogs and 1 blanket?


----------



## barefootboy (Sep 30, 2012)

Or a Three dog night??? lol sorry couldn't resist that one


----------



## Laura Zone 5 (Jan 13, 2010)

I cannot imagine how horrible this must be for New Yorkers "mentally and emotionally".

To have "your normal" yanked out from under you, then your 'immediate normal' to be so far from 'your normal'.......I cannot image the headache and heart ache of the people.
Yes, New Yorkers are 'thick skinned, tough, strong people'.
But at the core, they are still humans that have had their world turned upside down and shaken, not stirred.
It's heart breaking. I wish I could do more. :-(


----------



## Guest (Nov 5, 2012)

I notice the comments under the article are mostly political hateposts. Pathetic.


----------



## elkhound (May 30, 2006)

one word cure......woodstove


----------



## chickenista (Mar 24, 2007)

elkhound said:


> one word cure......woodstove


Not really.
There are several million people all piled on top of each other.
That is a lot of chimneys, a lot of ash to dispose of 
and nothing to burn.
Even if they cut down every tree lining the sidewalk and left them to cure
it still wouldn't heat very much for very long.

That is the main problem with all of this.
Too many people.


Awesome if you live in a free standing home, but apartment living?
Yikes.


----------



## barefootboy (Sep 30, 2012)

LD5 You are right . They lived in a world of a certain "norm" Then something changed the norm faster than they could adapt to it. I do feel sorry for those without the power to change their lives, such as children, elderly, etc. But for those who never considered the risks that went with their "norm", of where and how they lived, I still have sympathy for, just not as much.
Someone once said "You live on a soap bubble." In some ways that is true for us all. But in other ways there are risks we may choose to take, or not. When people have lost wealth or position, such as after the Stock Market crash, they sometimes prefer death to a life they can't adapt to. Sometimes people are so into their title or job that when they lose it for some reason, especially when it was at no fault of their own, they can't seem to go on living. The higher they fly, the farther they fall.
There is an old chinese saying *" A MAN SHOULD BE PREPARED TO LOSE ALL HIS WORLDLY GOODS THREE TIMES IN HIS LIFETIME."* FOR SOME OF US, THERE LIES THE KEY...WORLDLY GOODS. When who you are becomes what you have, you are in trouble, because be it on a personal level, or on a large scale such as this, you may lose what you have.
I'm sure preppers will try to save their home and things precious to them, but the first goal is to say lives.


----------



## Annsni (Oct 27, 2006)

I was going to say that's how I slept every winter night as a kid! LOL I used to sleep with a hat, long johns under a blanket sleeper (yes, even as a teen), in a sleeping bag under 2 comforters. The room I slept in had no insulation and we live in NY. 

I do think that the cold will get bad for those without power because the nights are now near freezing and we are just not acclimated to this. SO many of my friends keep their house at 70+ for the winter yet we keep it so low that it took us to 56 degrees to realize the furnace wasn't working! (It was just that the pilot light blew out which happens a few times a year.) So for us, the cold doesn't affect us as much as those who keep their heat higher.


----------



## beaglebiz (Aug 5, 2008)

NYC is generally warmer than where we live, and we have not yet turned on the heat, or lit a fire. (not speaking about elderly and disabled) What a bunch of sissies!!


----------



## Annsni (Oct 27, 2006)

beaglebiz said:


> NYC is generally warmer than where we live, and we have not yet turned on the heat, or lit a fire. (not speaking about elderly and disabled) What a bunch of sissies!!


We had a couple of cold days a few weeks ago - enough that we fired up the furnace which was a good thing because it needed repair. Many of the houses that don't have power are now down into the 40s. Not quite "sissy" anymore.


----------



## unioncreek (Jun 18, 2002)

We sleep like that every winter. I think it needs to happen occasionally so people see how good they have it.

Bob


----------



## Wags (Jun 2, 2002)

In the Little House on the Prairie books it mentions several times about Pa having to come up and shovel snow off the girls beds. Guess the pioneers were made of tougher stuff than some folks now days.


----------



## Annsni (Oct 27, 2006)

Wags said:


> In the Little House on the Prairie books it mentions several times about Pa having to come up and shovel snow off the girls beds. Guess the pioneers were made of tougher stuff than some folks now days.


LOL - I've told so many about that! It's incredible how different we used to be.


----------



## Limon (Aug 25, 2010)

beaglebiz said:


> NYC is generally warmer than where we live, and we have not yet turned on the heat, or lit a fire. (not speaking about elderly and disabled) What a bunch of sissies!!


From the article: _With temperatures hovering below 0 C_ 

You don't turn on the heat when it's below freezing?


----------



## TNHermit (Jul 14, 2005)

With as many house tore up there should be plenty of firewood. And a rocket stoves of all sizes are pretty easy to make. Surely there are some tin snips laying around in one of those places

Maybe its time for some of the preppers around there to do some teaching and demonstrations


----------



## TNHermit (Jul 14, 2005)

The other thing is that if the elections don't go right a lot more people better get use to living like that


----------



## Annsni (Oct 27, 2006)

TNHermit said:


> With as many house tore up there should be plenty of firewood. And a rocket stoves of all sizes are pretty easy to make. Surely there are some tin snips laying around in one of those places
> 
> Maybe its time for some of the preppers around there to do some teaching and demonstrations


Honestly, I'd be scared stiff if someone in an apartment building did this!! 

Now knowing what we know, if I lived in an apartment building in the city, I'd pick up one or two portable heaters that run on the small propane tanks. That should heat enough space to keep warm even if it means everyone sleeping in one room.


----------



## TNHermit (Jul 14, 2005)

Annsni said:


> Honestly, I'd be scared stiff if someone in an apartment building did this!!
> 
> Now knowing what we know, if I lived in an apartment building in the city, I'd pick up one or two portable heaters that run on the small propane tanks. That should heat enough space to keep warm even if it means everyone sleeping in one room.



Put the thing on the first floor or in the garage. Its survival time! Something can be done. Build a sleeping room outside. Sure wouldn't set around P&M while there was daylight and I was cold


----------



## Annsni (Oct 27, 2006)

TNHermit said:


> Put the thing on the first floor or in the garage. Its survival time! Something can be done. Build a sleeping room outside. Sure wouldn't set around P&M while there was daylight and I was cold


I've often seen barrel fires going that people warm up to in the city.


----------



## Forerunner (Mar 23, 2007)

barefootboy said:


> There is an old chinese saying *" A MAN SHOULD BE PREPARED TO LOSE ALL HIS WORLDLY GOODS THREE TIMES IN HIS LIFETIME."*


I couldn't help myself but to ask.....how many times have you lost all of yours ?

Not to say the notion is in any way irrelevant....but I like to know what the preacher has suffered/experienced, himself, before I put anything in the plate.


----------



## newfieannie (Dec 24, 2006)

i'm trying to put myself in their place like when i was in the condo and we had the hurricane that took some people off grid for several weeks. the only one that had a fireplace was the penthouse. i was on the tenth floor. she was the first one to move in and after that there was a rule. no more fireplaces. there was a generator but the maintenance people forgot to fill up the tanks. elevators didn't work. what a mess. lot of elderly people in there. i was okay because i went out to my country place where i had a woodstove. that's probably a lot of the problem. they are in apartments and close together.

i was thinking about the men that go on strike sometimes around here they have a barrel and light a fire to keep warm but i guess there isn't enough room for that either. i dont know how cold it gets there but i have 7 blankets on my bed now and a comforter and i have the furnace. coming back this morning i heard on the radio that people were selling stuff on the street to buy food for their kids. i can only send money which i already have but i feel so bad for the people and the kids especially. ~Georgia


----------



## TNHermit (Jul 14, 2005)

Any windows around in shape. Make a V for solar and put a raised area in and sleep daytime. Like a tent. Cover the ends. Put some poles up against the south side of a house and stack windows. Any construction workers there. how about enclosed trailers. Time to think out of the box
Things seem to be different than what you were saying last night.


----------



## Common Tator (Feb 19, 2008)

My mother in law was born and raised in South Dakota, in a tar paper shack. Her older brother died of pneumonia one winter, and the ground was frozen solid so they couldn't bury him. They had a room away from the wood stove heat where they stored meat. They put his body in there until the ground thawed enough to bury him in the Spring. His body froze solid in there.

In the winter the entire family slept around the wood stove in the parlor. That would probably be considered barbaric today, but that was their normal.


----------



## elkhound (May 30, 2006)

chickenista said:


> Not really.
> There are several million people all piled on top of each other.
> That is a lot of chimneys, a lot of ash to dispose of
> and nothing to burn.
> ...



at one time thats all there was even in apartments.the stoves would burn wood or coal.they were small and usually top loaded.look at very old building most had a central chimney and all the stoves hooked into it.i seen old historical pics showing the men going up and down streets selling coal.thats why people had a coal bucket to get there daily coal in.when i was younger around here they still sold coal in paper sacks like feed for animals so it was clean enough to carry inside the home and lay in the car trunk.

but my grandaddy was a prepper and had a coal room in basement that could hold several tons of coal.as a kid we would go to a coal yard and get a pickup load of coal and on the outside of the house there was a coal shoot going into that room and we shoveled it in....fun times.



i know things have changed..but what are we to do.i would move or figure something out to stay warm....my desire to be warm and survive would cause me even to walk away until i found shelter or i would move away to a better place.


----------



## Common Tator (Feb 19, 2008)

I need to say that it breaks my heart to see New Yorkers digging through trash to find something to eat. After viewing huge areas where homes were burned or washed away, even peppers could have found themselves homeless and hungry.


----------



## elkhound (May 30, 2006)

Common Tator said:


> I need to say that it breaks my heart to see New Yorkers digging through trash to find something to eat. After viewing huge areas where homes were burned or washed away, even peppers could have found themselves homeless and hungry.


its very sad...none of us know what we might go through.


----------



## secretcreek (Jan 24, 2010)

I think that anyone not of a prepper mind would be "shell shocked/ lost for a time, not to mention that there are roving looters that move around at night...so scary times for a sheeple. "What doesn't kill you, makes you stronger"... NY folks are facing a very harsh reality.

I predict 8 million plus new preppers have been "born" due to Sandy, and a bunch of new babies will be born 9 months from now. Is S&P showing many more readers yet? Might be too soon.


I used to sleep in a back bedroom with two outside walls with little insulation during my Michigan youth. I slept ~under~ my great-grandmothers feather mattress. That was w-a-r-m!


----------



## pumpkin (May 8, 2012)

Wags said:


> In the Little House on the Prairie books it mentions several times about Pa having to come up and shovel snow off the girls beds. Guess the pioneers were made of tougher stuff than some folks now days.


Yes, but who really wants to live like that? Even the toughest pioneers did everything possible to improve the quality of their life as quickly as possible. Just because you don't like cold showers does not mean you are not tough.


----------



## pumpkin (May 8, 2012)

Laura Zone 5 said:


> I cannot imagine how horrible this must be for New Yorkers "mentally and emotionally".
> 
> To have "your normal" yanked out from under you, then your 'immediate normal' to be so far from 'your normal'.......I cannot image the headache and heart ache of the people.
> Yes, New Yorkers are 'thick skinned, tough, strong people'.
> ...


It is nice to read some posts that are supportive and seem to understand that going through a disruption in (and even destruction of) your life does not mean that your are a weak person just because it makes you unhappy and uncomfortable.


----------



## janetn (Apr 26, 2012)

secretcreek said:


> I think that anyone not of a prepper mind would be "shell shocked/ lost for a time, not to mention that there are roving looters that move around at night...so scary times for a sheeple. "What doesn't kill you, makes you stronger"... NY folks are facing a very harsh reality.
> 
> I predict 8 million plus new preppers have been "born" due to Sandy, and a bunch of new babies will be born 9 months from now. Is S&P showing many more readers yet? Might be too soon.
> 
> ...


I hope you are right - reguarding having 8 million new preppers. Finally I dont think you can beat a down filled comforter for warmth, you feel soo snuggly warm under them:thumb:


----------



## barefootboy (Sep 30, 2012)

*FORERUNNER*
I want to say this in the most inoffensive way I can.
It seems you want me to give some person accounting of my life and what I may or may not have gone throught to justify my use of a saying.
First off , that's personal information. Second, I never liked whiners who seek pity or sympathy. Sometimes, in order to make a valid point, as some are on here now doing,I might refer to an incident in my life where I experianced something related to the point discussed. Other than that you are welcome to dismiss my use of the saying, or anything else I post. The only one who needs to know about my life and can judge it is God.


----------



## beaglebiz (Aug 5, 2008)

Annsni said:


> We had a couple of cold days a few weeks ago - enough that we fired up the furnace which was a good thing because it needed repair. Many of the houses that don't have power are now down into the 40s. Not quite "sissy" anymore.


I still disagree...40's isnt that cold. indoors, its more than ten degrees warmer, plus we dont wear summer clothes in winter, like just a t shirt. In winter, you dress in layers, and keep a sweatshirt on. Many of us here do it. So yes, as I mentioned, excluding the elderly and disabled, they are acting like sissies claiming they will have to sleep with three blankets and long johns. Right now its 37 outdoors according to weather.com, and according to my thermostat its 58 indoors. no heat on. If it were colder indoors, Id put on a sweatshirt.


----------



## Annsni (Oct 27, 2006)

beaglebiz said:


> I still disagree...40's isnt that cold. indoors, its more than ten degrees warmer, plus we dont wear summer clothes in winter, like just a t shirt. In winter, you dress in layers, and keep a sweatshirt on. Many of us here do it. So yes, as I mentioned, excluding the elderly and disabled, they are acting like sissies claiming they will have to sleep with three blankets and long johns. Right now its 37 outdoors according to weather.com, and according to my thermostat its 58 indoors. no heat on. If it were colder indoors, Id put on a sweatshirt.


No - I'm saying 40s IN the house, not outside.


----------



## Laura Zone 5 (Jan 13, 2010)

Annsni said:


> No - I'm saying 40s IN the house, not outside.


And for me? Anything below 60 is uncomfortable for me.
40's and I would be freezing.
This skinny chick can't hack the cold.
40's has to feel like freezing for the elderly, those who are battling cancer or other life threatening illnesses, and those who have conditions like fibro, lupas, or things such as this.
For some folks, 40's are a heat wave.....
For some, it's like being dropped into ice water.
*I feel badly for those who are suffering, regardless if *I* think it's that bad or not.*


----------



## kasilofhome (Feb 10, 2005)

When the bones get cold --and they do--it is hard to feel warm again till a roaring fire or hot bath sorry but the bones can chill slowly over night with out descent heat. Much like when livestock face a sudden change in temps they do suffer. Wildlife feel the sudden changes and it lowers the numbers. This is a sudden change --ok many did not prep but they are suffering.


----------



## beaglebiz (Aug 5, 2008)

Annsni said:


> No - I'm saying 40s IN the house, not outside.


its not that cold!! its more than ten degrees warmer than where I am. thats why I am calling them sissies!!!
Are you closer to them than I am?


----------



## beaglebiz (Aug 5, 2008)

Also, please note, I mentioned it was not about the elderly or disabled.

Kasilofhome, I would expect 40's would be a balmy day for you in Alaska 

Laura, I truly didnt take it as "suffering". these people are complaining about what is daily life for many of us. 

Winter is not here yet. Wait until that happens. It comes every year. Much of what could ease these folks "suffering" is normal stuff you would do to prepare for winter every year.


----------



## Forerunner (Mar 23, 2007)

barefootboy said:


> *FORERUNNER*
> I want to say this in the most inoffensive way I can.
> It seems you want me to give some person accounting of my life and what I may or may not have gone throught to justify my use of a saying.
> First off , that's personal information. Second, I never liked whiners who seek pity or sympathy. Sometimes, in order to make a valid point, as some are on here now doing,I might refer to an incident in my life where I experianced something related to the point discussed. Other than that you are welcome to dismiss my use of the saying, or anything else I post. The only one who needs to know about my life and can judge it is God.


No offense taken.

Thank you for the tactful reply.


----------



## Laura Zone 5 (Jan 13, 2010)

beaglebiz said:


> Also, please note, I mentioned it was not about the elderly or disabled.
> 
> Kasilofhome, I would expect 40's would be a balmy day for you in Alaska
> 
> ...


It just makes my heart heavy to see so many people determining "what those on the coast should and should not feel" from the comforts of their heated, non sewer filled, fully stocked pantry....homes".

What is suffering to one, may not be suffering to another, but what *my* level of suffering is.......is just that. Mine. 
I do not expect the rest of the world to march to my 'suffer-meter'.

I visit 2 sites pretty regularly, and I have seen such a lack of compassion, it boarders on hateful. 
Did we all say "well stupid folks in Joplin, they should have all had underground bunkers full of food and supplies. Serves them right??
It seems like there is so much 'hate' towards the east coast folks......
Does the tv need to show dead bloated bodies, mutilated children or dead dogs and cats floating on the shore for people to have compassion???
Oy.


----------



## barefootboy (Sep 30, 2012)

I do not wish anything I ever went through at anytime in my life on anyone. I do not ask people to give up what they see as their life style. And I know all the teaching in the worlds will never get some people to so much as have a non electric can opener. Even the life style I live now would be so terrible to some people.
And the point raised by someone else IS correct. You endure what you have to, but then build up to something better. My life today is a giant leap from what I went though as a boy, because I swore I would never endure such things again and worked to make that happen.
I can't say for sure what I would do in a post event situation, although I know I have been through a few. What I would want to do, once I knew my base was secured, would be to rebuild my personal situation again to the norm I was comfortable with if possible.
I'll put out another phrase I happen to believe in:
*"THAT WHICH IS TODAY DOES NOT HAVE TO BE WHAT WILL BE TOMORROW" *
Today my budget is tight. Tomorrow things have the potential to be better for a number of reasons. I endure the today to await the tomorrow.


----------



## AngieM2 (May 10, 2002)

Laura - 
there is a huge difference in having some knowledge and something you could take with you, or have at home (if still there) and a tornado shelter. 
Also, tornados maybe will let you know 24 hours ahead, or 20 minutes ahead or no notice that they are coming. This event was predicted a week ahead and a good general area of probable land making was given over and over. 

We all knew that the cold front was going to crash with the hurricane. 

if there had not been a week's notice, more here would be more sympathic.

And if we were getting more coverage of the "can doers" rather than "where's my handouter" we might feel differently.

And the only put downs are for those that have not tried to help themselves.
Those that tried before, during or after are being held up as what to attempt rather than sit on your butt and twiddle your thumbs waiting to be rescued.


----------



## TNHermit (Jul 14, 2005)

Shelter ad warmth in a little time. May have to find alternates but should be doable with all the salvage

I've done it with PVC and twine and throw some plastic over it. 10 ft piece should get you about 6 ft wide and as long as you want.

Maybe Country Cabin will chime in . She does this all the tie in canada


[YOUTUBE]SEA_cXjIkAg&feature=related[/YOUTUBE]


----------



## barefootboy (Sep 30, 2012)

I have sympathy for all those anyware, be it Haiti, Japan or Timbuktu, who go through anything like this. Many places in my life I have seen the suffering , especially of children, and it has torn my heart to pieces.
Sometimes it is difficult if you don't experiance a situation to understand. The old line "Let them eat cake" wasn't meant as mockery, but rather out of the air-headed ignorance of the person to the plight of the poor.
Yes, maybe there were those who put themselves into this because of any number of personal choices, but we must listen to the better angels of our nature and make our first goal to help all we can, to feed and shelter all we can. Later, those who want to learn will turn to ones like us , and then we can be there for them.
By the same token, we should not be made to feel guilty because either we dodged the bullet, or we prepped enough to have a fighting chance to get through it, or our lifestyle is such that we are normally geared to handle the disruptions of the grid.


----------



## kasilofhome (Feb 10, 2005)

Here is something that I did do the first winter when we had little heat and bad housing I heated rocks on any heat source. woodstove, radiators in public buildings --I wrapped them in clothe and carried them in my pockets I would warm my hands with them --they were portable heat. when my feet got cold I would take off my shoes and stand on them. This was a take off of my mother tell me that she baked pototaoes each night and when she walked to school she had a hot / warm lunch at school she and the others cooked potatoes by the fire for the trip home. She spend some school days in Eagle Maine.


----------



## Annsni (Oct 27, 2006)

beaglebiz said:


> its not that cold!! its more than ten degrees warmer than where I am. thats why I am calling them sissies!!!
> Are you closer to them than I am?


Umm - Yeah. I AM them. Northport, Long Island.


----------



## Wags (Jun 2, 2002)

pumpkin said:


> Yes, but who really wants to live like that? Even the toughest pioneers did everything possible to improve the quality of their life as quickly as possible. Just because you don't like cold showers does not mean you are not tough.


Of course they improved their lot as quickly as possible. The key though is that they didn't wait around for the government to improve it for them.

Losing everything is tough, expecting someone else to come through and help you out means you are going to add a whole lot of disappointment on top of it.


----------



## wendle (Feb 22, 2006)

unioncreek said:


> We sleep like that every winter. I think it needs to happen occasionally so people see how good they have it.
> 
> Bob


We do too. I don't get in a big hurry to fire up the boiler in the fall. As long as it's over 30 outside I figure the pipes won't freeze. I think it's good to learn to deal with temperature extremes. 
In the days of remote start vehicles, and climate control buildings it's very hard for some to deal with such a big change.


----------



## Hobbes (Apr 1, 2008)

Most people about go into shock when I tell them I sleep with about 6 blankets on my bed during the winter, two wool, two quilts, and two cotton. But then again, I don't have central heat. I love it during the winter, because I'm snug as a bug in a rug - it does make it a little hard to get out of bed in the morning, though.  I'm fairly skinny, and I feel cold quicker than others, but I kinda look forward to winter because my unheated kitchen now becomes a walk-in refrigerator, and I can leave a lot more produce and food just sitting on the counters instead of having to cram it all in my ----y fridge. That said, when I do get cold to my bones, then it becomes miserable (but at least I have a huge fireplace, so I can empathize with those that get cold, but have no major source of heat to replenish and revitalize. That alone can take a big toll on your morale, not matter how many preps you got. Stock up on hot cocoa, broths, mre heaters, 12v car hot pots, etc. Plus, hypothermia and cold-related immune suppression should always be considered as well.


----------



## naturelover (Jun 6, 2006)

Wags said:


> In the Little House on the Prairie books it mentions several times about Pa having to come up and *shovel snow off the girls beds*. Guess the pioneers were made of tougher stuff than some folks now days.


Okay, I am not understanding this. Having not read the books I have to ask how the heck did snow get on the girl's beds? Snow is that white fluffy stuff that comes floating down out of the sky - how did it get inside the house onto their beds and in such quantity that it would have to be shovelled off? 

Were they sleeping outside in a non-enclosed porch? Did the house not have a roof on it? Was the snow blowing in through big holes in the walls of the house? Did the house have windows but no glass or shutters or covers over the windows?

.


----------



## Annsni (Oct 27, 2006)

naturelover said:


> Okay, I am not understanding this. Having not read the books I have to ask how the heck did snow get on the girl's beds? Snow is that white fluffy stuff that comes floating down out of the sky - how did it get inside the house onto their beds and in such quantity that it would have to be shovelled off?
> 
> Were they sleeping outside in a non-enclosed porch? Did the house not have a roof on it? Was the snow blowing in through big holes in the walls of the house? Did the house have windows but no glass or shutters or covers over the windows?
> 
> .


I have to find the book again but if I remember correctly, it was when they had to winter in town and there were gaps in the siding of the room they were staying in.


----------



## lmrose (Sep 24, 2009)

I agree with you pumpkin how horrible it must be for all those people who have been suddenly displaced. New Jersey also bore the worse. I wish there was more I also could do to help especially with a North Easter storm forecast soon. Misery upon misery. All most of us can do is pray and donate money to those who can provide help.

What we all need to do that missed this disaster is look at our own living situations and plan ahead incase the next storm hits us wherever we live. Hopefully the rest of North America will learn from this unfortunate disaster affecting more than a million people still.


----------



## Limon (Aug 25, 2010)

naturelover said:


> Okay, I am not understanding this. Having not read the books I have to ask how the heck did snow get on the girl's beds? Snow is that white fluffy stuff that comes floating down out of the sky - how did it get inside the house onto their beds and in such quantity that it would have to be shovelled off?
> 
> Were they sleeping outside in a non-enclosed porch? Did the house not have a roof on it? Was the snow blowing in through big holes in the walls of the house? Did the house have windows but no glass or shutters or covers over the windows?
> 
> .


They were living in an unfinished building in town. A blizzard caught them by surprise and blew snow under the eaves. Or so the story goes; the books aren't strictly autobiographical.

But it was the Dakota Territory, a place where the force of a blizzard wind could drive snow through any crack in the wall. People moved out of sod shanties as soon as they could, but the boards they used would shrink as they dried, so keeping a house air-tight was pretty much impossible back then. Diary accounts from the period talk about sweeping up the snow in the morning when they woke up.


----------



## naturelover (Jun 6, 2006)

Thanks. I guess it must have been really dry, powdery snow then, not heavy wet snow.

.


----------



## Laura Zone 5 (Jan 13, 2010)

AngieM2 said:


> Laura -
> there is a huge difference in having some knowledge and something you could take with you, or have at home (if still there) and a tornado shelter.
> Also, tornados maybe will let you know 24 hours ahead, or 20 minutes ahead or no notice that they are coming. This event was predicted a week ahead and a good general area of probable land making was given over and over.
> 
> ...


Totally understand the difference between a hurricane and a tornado.....I have been in 2 tornado's........
My point was just the 'air seems so mean spirited'.

And I think it is NO coninsidence that what we see on TV are the "where's my handout" types. 
I swear, the media interviews folks BEFORE they put them on air, and whoever can make the biggest idiot of themselves.........wins.
And quite frankly, I think the media should ske-daddle. They are using precious electricity, taking up hotel space, and generally getting in the way.

I agree Angie, it is frustrating to see folks not fending for themselves and their young. 
But if generation after generation has not been taught, shown or role modeled preparedness, they are not going to have a clue. 
I know. I was that girl once.
It just seems like there is such a lack of compassion. It hurts my heart.


----------



## davel745 (Feb 2, 2009)

chickenista said:


> Not really.
> There are several million people all piled on top of each other.
> That is a lot of chimneys, a lot of ash to dispose of
> and nothing to burn.
> ...


If they burned the wood from the distruction it would do two things save lives and clean up the mess.


----------



## barefootboy (Sep 30, 2012)

LZ5 You are a beautiful person with a compassionate soul. I like to think there is some of that in me. But in order to discuss some of these topics, it sometimes appears that I might not seem as compassionate as maybe I am. Like many things in life, this question has no easy answers. There are so many factors in this. I think we could spend days picking them apart. How much is the individual to blame for not prepping when they had the means and situation, and how much is the greater society to blame for conditioning the person to rely on the system and not on themselves?
But we don't have days, as people need shelter , heat, food , water and sanitation NOW.
It is in the months to come that there should be a review and recomendation for a national and local "prepping" for emergencies. But that won't happen. instead you'll hear of the great job the Red Cross and Salvation army did, along with FEMA etc.
Yes, I have compassion, but I keep in mind the old saying
*THOSE WHO DO NOT LEARN FROM THE PAST ARE CONDEMMED TO REPEAT IT*
People failed to learn from Katrina, and all the other disasters that happened. How much compassion can you show for someone who has had warning after warning and is abled bodied and financially capable of prepping to at least a week's level,(and calls you a nutcake for doing so) who does not take a direct hit, but is cut off from the normal grid ( water, electricity, heat)? 
I don't want to see anyone hungry or cold. After all they are my fellow Americans. But I do want them to realize WHY they are hungry and cold in the cases where they could have prevented it.


----------



## SFM in KY (May 11, 2002)

naturelover said:


> Okay, I am not understanding this. Having not read the books I have to ask how the heck did snow get on the girl's beds? Snow is that white fluffy stuff that comes floating down out of the sky - how did it get inside the house onto their beds and in such quantity that it would have to be shovelled off?


Don't know about Little House on the Prairie (or enough snow to shovel) but been there, done that. By the time I was in my teens, we did have electricity at the ranch in MT but everything else was still 'pre-modern convenience' ... coal cook and heating stove, 1900s ranch house with very little insulation, no running water, no indoor plumbing. My bedroom was the original homestead cabin and on the north side of the rest of the house, and when a serious blizzard hit, 3 days of dry, powder snow driven by 30 mph wind sifted in around the north-side window. 

I went away to high school so wasn't home except on weekends, so my bedroom door was kept closed and there was more than once I brushed snow off the windowsill and floor when I got home. My bed didn't get snow on it, but it was up against the opposite wall.

I would lay a heavy cotton blanket on the couch behind the potbellied coal stove in the living room to warm up while I got into my 'sleepwear' ... long johns and heavy socks ... take the warmed blanket to wrap up in, get into bed and curl up under all the quilts.


----------



## texican (Oct 4, 2003)

I'm beginning to see more and more similarities between Katrina's NOLA residents and the NYC region residents.... both believed (true believers) in the govt being there to take care of them. Both predominantly liberal, the party of big govt. Both NOLA'ns (dealth with) and NYC'ers are now dealing with the shock of the storm and the shock of their belief systems being wrong.

If this happened in rural America, where people are more dependent upon theirselves, their neighbors, and communities, would the result be the same?

I find it amusing (sorry, I do) that 'one' would think it barbaric to live without central heat and air... and have to rough it, by using blankets (oh, the horror). It was in the 40's here last night... the windows were open, the fans were blowing the cool air, and I was under a pile throw.

Do I feel sorry, or empathy? Yes. I feel for those that trusted their families lives with some abstract heartless agency (FEMA). Hopefully most will survive, and realize the govt is not there to wipe your bottom and decant your wine... IF the heartless govt tells you to prepare, you'd think someone who trusts implicitly that govt would indeed prepare...

The largest metropolis in the US is an extremely fragile thing, in the best of times.... thousands of trucks, trains, planes, barges bringing in resources from all over the planet to keep the millions of souls alive, and even comfortable. Let the power go out, roads become impassible, and chaos reigns... Imagine what would happen to these doomed souls, if a nationwide emergency occurred and there were no more resources flowing into the metropolis? The 'rocket stoves', barrels, etc. would be firing up... the debris would be going into shacks, if not into the burn barrels. The city would go up in flames in days. 

NYC is NOT where you want to be when the nationwide SHTF occurs.


----------



## meanwhile (Dec 13, 2007)

reason for deleting:
I did not mean to hurt anyone nor upset or annoy.
Sorry.


----------



## whiterock (Mar 26, 2003)

barefootboy, a number of us on here have lost it. Forerunner, myself, and a number of others have lost the house and all in it to fire.


----------



## barefootboy (Sep 30, 2012)

I am realy getting tired of tying to defend myself against these attacks. I'm not going to play some game of who had it worse in their life. I won't bother posting in here anymore. h


----------



## Forerunner (Mar 23, 2007)

I don't see it as a personal thing.

If someone wants to throw up a pretty tough quote, it's just sound wisdom that they have some clue what sentiment they are promoting.

A simple, "yes, I have been through fire", would suffice.


----------



## whiterock (Mar 26, 2003)

What attack? Just a statement. You make really good posts and I enjoy and like them. Just wanted you to know a bit about our pasts.
Ed


----------



## AngieM2 (May 10, 2002)

barefootboy said:


> I am realy getting tired of tying to defend myself against these attacks. I'm not going to play some game of who had it worse in their life. I won't bother posting in here anymore. h


Sorry you think this has had attacks. Just showing that others have had it rough also, and know what you are talking about.

But,if you find this forum is not for you - there's a bunch others on HT you may find accept your posts, but be aware -everyone gets challenged on a lot of what they say. You have to earn the respect of your pronouncement by sharing and a give and take. 

And mostly this is a fairly mild forum for challenges - some are much more demanding of a person earning respect, cause it is not just given.


----------



## SFM in KY (May 11, 2002)

texican said:


> If this happened in rural America, where people are more dependent upon theirselves, their neighbors, and communities, would the result be the same?
> 
> NYC is NOT where you want to be when the nationwide SHTF occurs.


People in rural areas will not usually be in as much trouble as city people. Total destruction is still total destruction ... fire/flood/hurricane that takes everything including the house/outbuildings and anything stored against need is going to be gone but if it's not all gone, most rural people, real rural people at least rather than city people who are living in the country, will cope more efficiently. They can build a fire. They can put together temporary shelter. 
And even more critical, they have neighbors that they know and they will help each other. The one that has a working vehicle will do the driving, the cellar that didn't get flooded will provide at least some food for the families whose emergency storage was a pantry above ground that got blown into the next county.

And last, but definitely a major factor, is that there are simply not as many people to provide food, water, heat and shelter for and they are going to be people who are comfortable with the fact that you don't have to drive 10 miles to the grocery store to get a gallon of milk ... there is a cow in the next field!

But I am and have mostly always been a rural person. I would probably be as helpless in a city disaster as the majority of city residents if I were living in one of the high-rise apartment complexes. I would have no clue how to prepare for a disaster like this as it would be impossible for me to cope with an emergency the way I would out in a rural area.


----------



## pumpkin (May 8, 2012)

barefootboy said:


> I am realy getting tired of tying to defend myself against these attacks. I'm not going to play some game of who had it worse in their life. I won't bother posting in here anymore. h


I don't see any personal attack either. Personal attacks are just silly. You have to be able to withstand challenges to your ideas and criticism of your comments without taking umbrage or you don't learn and won't be able to teach and evolve. 

When someone has a different experience than yours it doesn't make your experience null and void it just gives you a broader view. And even if you completely disagree with an opinion it is worth storing the information and remembering the story because sometimes you find out that you are wrong.


----------



## Tommyice (Dec 5, 2010)

barefootboy said:


> I am realy getting tired of tying to defend myself against these attacks. I'm not going to play some game of who had it worse in their life. I won't bother posting in here anymore. h


Try being a person who lives here in the Northeast and reading these threads. You'll really know what attacks feel like.


----------



## Forerunner (Mar 23, 2007)

I have enjoyed and respected barefootboy's posts. 

I was somewhat surprised that he took my first inquiry with such a tone of defensiveness.

Hang in there, man.....some of us have been raked over the coals, in here, and still maintain some odd degree of requisite stubbornness to hang around.


----------



## elkhound (May 30, 2006)

Tommyice said:


> Try being a person who lives here in the Northeast and reading these threads. You'll really know what attacks feel like.



your just jealous cause you dont live in the south.....roflmao


:catfight::kiss::thumb::hysterical::croc::fussin:


----------



## TNHermit (Jul 14, 2005)

Tommyice said:


> Try being a person who lives here in the Northeast and reading these threads. You'll really know what attacks feel like.


Try living in the hills of TN where things don't change for decades and decades. And were looked down on as ignorant and simple minded. Yet I still don't lock my doors at night (might have something tod owith everyone being armed) and most things that effect everyone else has little efffect on anything down here. We still live off the wild and the land. 
its changing as GM,Chryselr,Ford retirees move in. But so far that is 50 miles NOrth of here
By the way i just got a quart of peach, a half gallon meade and some honey that will take you through anything LOL


----------



## meanwhile (Dec 13, 2007)

I am sorry if my post sounded like an attack. I did not mean it to be. It is hard sometimes to say what I want to say when typing. Sometimes things just don't sound right online as it would in person. I am sorry if anything I said was hurtful or annoying. Did not mean it to be negative.


----------



## GeorgiaLady (Jul 18, 2012)

I don't prep for myself, I prep for my children. I am responsible for their well being. Bar a house fire or tornado...my children will not go hungry or be cold. I think it is irresponsible for parents to not have a contingency plan, if for nothing else but their children's sake. JMO


----------



## pamda (Oct 14, 2004)

I sleep in longies with cental heat...I am so wanting to go help out in New York..they would not want to hear what I have to say..lol. I am a grandma with no fear of cold nights (don't like them) and no fear of doing what I have to do to survive. Even a candle in a food can will warm some space. These people have had all common sense bred out of them...so sad.


----------



## Annsni (Oct 27, 2006)

pamda said:


> These people have had all common sense bred out of them...so sad.


I just spoke to a sweet woman who's around 40 who grew up in Columbia. I asked her how she did through the storm and no power afterwards and she said that she was so used to not having power and water at home (they might get it but it was totally unreliable and it would last maybe a few hours a day) that this was nothing for her. She said that it's typical to not have power or water back at home and so she knew how to even manage if she had no water (which we never lose water). She was able to take good care of her family with everything but heat because she has no stove or fireplace where she could heat the home but they got their power back before it got too cold. 

I just thought it was interesting to speak to someone who really DID grow up in third world conditions because I hear people complaining on the radio that they are living in "third world conditions" and they have no clue. They have generators, gas (even if it's hard to get), plenty of food and a way to get more, a secure home that is insulated and has windows and clothing galore. They just don't get it.


----------



## pamda (Oct 14, 2004)

I am worried about the elders and little ones in this mess. I feel the insane urge to go help where I can..unfortunatly I am tied here with responsibilities and lack of funds. I sound sour and not nice when talking about this storm, but the young people whining and crying about things really bugs me. I forget that life in the bigger cities is not like it is in my snuggly world. 

ANd,seriously, if this happened in a more rural area, the news would not care, the papers would not care...we would not here about it at all.


----------



## unregistered65598 (Oct 4, 2010)

pamda said:


> ANd,seriously, if this happened in a more rural area, the news would not care, the papers would not care...we would not here about it at all.


Thats because those living in rural areas would be prepared and not begging for help. They are a different type of people who will pull together and stand together.


----------



## Annsni (Oct 27, 2006)

pamda said:


> I am worried about the elders and little ones in this mess. I feel the insane urge to go help where I can..unfortunatly I am tied here with responsibilities and lack of funds. I sound sour and not nice when talking about this storm, but the young people whining and crying about things really bugs me. I forget that life in the bigger cities is not like it is in my snuggly world.
> 
> ANd,seriously, if this happened in a more rural area, the news would not care, the papers would not care...we would not here about it at all.





Merks said:


> Thats because those living in rural areas would be prepared and not begging for help. They are a different type of people who will pull together and stand together.


Exactly Merks. People are really generally clueless on how to take care of themselves beyond the comforts.

Pamda - Thank you for feeling pulled to help. Probably the best thing you can do is to give a donation to the Red Cross or the First Response Disaster Team who are here helping as well. Know that people ARE getting what they need - but sometimes that they THINK they need isn't a true need and so they will instead complain. That is what you hear on the news. But I have to say that so have pulled together and helped each other through this all.


----------



## Sanza (Sep 8, 2008)

I think we've all seen the picture of the two women shopping by flashlight after the power went out. One had a jar of spaghetti sauce, a small pkg of spaghetti, a small bottle of water and her cell phone, while the other one was holding the flashlight. And that's their idea of shopping to stock up? They didn't even have a shopping basket, never mind a cart!
Even though I have enough food to last for months I would still have grabbed a shopping cart and filled it full - just in case.


----------



## Laura Zone 5 (Jan 13, 2010)

I happened to flip on the tv Wednesday AM, and heard an interview with a man on Staten Island.
A grown man. Begging for help.
There is not food, no drinking water, some folks have no clothes, no shelter because everything was wiped down to the the foundations, and people are scared.....and cold.

I thought the POTUS was flying in help in C130's and Red Cross was sending people in from all over the country, and they had everything under control??

What's REALLY going on out there??


----------



## Annsni (Oct 27, 2006)

Laura Zone 5 said:


> I happened to flip on the tv Wednesday AM, and heard an interview with a man on Staten Island.
> A grown man. Begging for help.
> There is not food, no drinking water, some folks have no clothes, no shelter because everything was wiped down to the the foundations, and people are scared.....and cold.
> 
> ...


Do you mean Wednesday, two days after the storm or this Wednesday. There is a bunch of help there. I even saw on the news last night that Zatarans came to Staten Island and made a bunch of jambalaya for people there. They had a giant vat of it, a tent set up and everyone was grateful. The Red Cross has been there for almost 2 weeks at this point.


----------



## hoggie (Feb 11, 2007)

Do you ohave Salvation Army over there.

They have a presence in many places and tend not to get mentioned because they are just "already there".

But if they are around they provide help in many ways too


----------



## Annsni (Oct 27, 2006)

hoggie said:


> Do you ohave Salvation Army over there.
> 
> They have a presence in many places and tend not to get mentioned because they are just "already there".
> 
> But if they are around they provide help in many ways too


Yep - Salvation Army is already in the area. Let me see if they are on Staten Island. Yep, there are a few of them.


----------



## Our Little Farm (Apr 26, 2010)

I am just thankful that as HT'ers we found our way here and even better, share knowledge on the survival and emergency preparedness forum. Many folk that were hit by this disaster truly don't have a clue. I struggle when I hear of people who truly are freezing and without food. Especially the elderly and children. 
Personally I would have left the area with as many supplies as I could, but if my home got flooded or destroyed by fire, I would have lost any preps left behind. 
My thoughts are with those who are cold, who have lost so much. It cannot be easy, no matter how prepared you are. Even if you had everything, others around you do not, so what do you do then? Share everything? Listen to their cries?


----------



## GoldenCityMuse (Apr 15, 2009)

Logistics is very difficult. Even though all I have dealt with is personal logistics, I have read. Getting the food, water and clothing that 'last mile' is a tremendous amount of work. It takes vehicles, fuel for same, parts for same, manpower, shelter for manpower, etc., etc. 

Plus you need roads open, a place to distribute from, and so on. Most of it is done with volunteers these days, so it is not something to take lightly.


----------



## Laura Zone 5 (Jan 13, 2010)

Annsni said:


> Do you mean Wednesday, two days after the storm or this Wednesday. There is a bunch of help there. I even saw on the news last night that Zatarans came to Staten Island and made a bunch of jambalaya for people there. They had a giant vat of it, a tent set up and everyone was grateful. The Red Cross has been there for almost 2 weeks at this point.


Wed Nov 7th.
He said his area has not seen one Red Cross person. Not once.
Could be the guy is full of bunk.
It's just what I heard.

I have not watched tv in days. 
I have not seen any "areail" shots of the hardest hit areas like we did of Katrina?
Are they not showing us, or have I missed them?


----------



## Tommyice (Dec 5, 2010)

They're not showing them Laura. Occasionally on the local NY stations, but even then it's only a quick glimpse.


----------



## Laura Zone 5 (Jan 13, 2010)

Tommyice said:


> They're not showing them Laura. Occasionally on the local NY stations, but even then it's only a quick glimpse.


Hmmmmmmmmm
See with Katrina.....that's all they showed.
Lots of helo-shots.....folks on roof tops, folks on bridges, folks on cars, general devestation of the city, etc.
We had Katrina jammed up our butts for WEEKS.
Everyone talking about how 'unprepared' we were for this type of storm, blame blame blame...

I am not hearing OR seeing ANYTHING like this in NY/NJ.
Is that because everyone is well taken care of, this are well under control, and getting back to normal?
OR
Is the news about some dude who's been in prison for 37 years for a crime he didn't commit, being set free, even though the prosicuter still thinks he's guilty.......is that REALLY more important?

Help me understand.


----------



## Forerunner (Mar 23, 2007)

Help any of us understand. :indif:


----------



## Laura Zone 5 (Jan 13, 2010)

Forerunner said:


> Help any of us understand. :indif:


Seriously.........

With Katrina......we had 24/7/365 coverage.
We had tons of benefit concerts
We had saturation of outlets you could give to.
We had zillions of folks going in and cleaning up / helping, etc.

Same with the oil spill. Folks pouring out on the coasts, washing birds, boats, rocks, you name it.

AT LEAST THAT IS WHAT WE WERE TOLD and shown on tv.

NOW if that was total garbage, and you reading are someone who went through Katrina, and did NOT receive ANY of this kind of help, I apologize, and PLEASE tell us your story, and how common it was.

With the NY/NJ situation?
The weather channel was NON STOP with the build up to the storm.
NON STOP with the 'while the storm moves in"
NON STOP with the "we're in the middle of the storm".
And, where in the hades are they now?

Has our society / culture decomposed so much that we 'live for the thrill' on the TV then move to the next "thrill" on TV?
Have we forgotten that this storm ruined / is ruining lives? 
REAL HUMAN lives?
Hello? Is this thing on?

Double Gainer Triple Twist dismount
She nails it for a perfect 10
:soap:


----------



## Tommyice (Dec 5, 2010)

Because Laura, despite what you hear about the Northeastern people, they do take care of themselves and their families and their neighbors. You only heard about NYC because it is 9 million people. The suburbs of NYC never have mattered. 

All that's left for us is to deal with the bureaucracy of getting back to normal. We are also accepting of our situation. I had a retired priest come into the pharmacy the other day to get some of his prescriptions that he can't get at his home pharmacy (seems it washed out into the Atlantic). He's staying at our local parish rectory and Tuesday is the day he can go back into Seaside Heights to see if his house is still there. His theory...either he will rebuild it or move to somewhere else. 

Also, here in NJ, we send more money out then we get back in entitlements so that mentality is not there. We're never expecting much to come back to us. Oh, and we have a governor that's got a set. Never met a union he didn't bash. The utilities here got power back pretty darn fast--99% of the state is back online. JCP&L was a problem with the union crap, but that got squashed by Christie quickly--unlike Long Island NY which I understand is still having problems with LIPA.


----------



## TheMartianChick (May 26, 2009)

Leslie is correct! Some of the issues on Long Island include people whose power cannot be turned back on until they get new equipment installed in their basements. The salt water corrrodes the equipment and must be replaced. 

In 1998, our area had a bad storm that didn't involve seawater. Our power company refused to restore power to one of our rentals because the wind had removed 2 brackets from the main wire that brings power into the house. It was still connected , but would have required 4 screws to put it back up. They forced us to pay an electrician to install the 4 screws and provide them with a receipt as proof that the work had been done by a professional. We paid $80 to have four screws put in, though we had the ability to do it ourselves. Power companies can be a trip...People in our area have nicknamed our local power company National Greed instead of National Grid.


----------



## Annsni (Oct 27, 2006)

Laura Zone 5 said:


> Wed Nov 7th.
> He said his area has not seen one Red Cross person. Not once.
> Could be the guy is full of bunk.
> It's just what I heard.
> ...


The guy is blowing smoke. They've been there - but maybe not at his front door.

As for the arial shots, there are plenty - most likely they are just moving on in the news where you are but I've seen a ton of them. You can probably just google even "before and after Sandy photos" and see a bunch.


----------



## Annsni (Oct 27, 2006)

Tommyice said:


> The utilities here got power back pretty darn fast--99% of the state is back online. JCP&L was a problem with the union crap, but that got squashed by Christie quickly--unlike Long Island NY which I understand is still having problems with LIPA.


Actually, I believe that we're also very high in having power back - except those areas that were destroyed or where an electrician needs to check the home to be sure that the power is safe to turn on (many homes on the South Shore had salt water come in and so they need to be inspected first).


----------

