# Simmental holstein heifers



## Judith (Jan 10, 2003)

I bought some really nice Holstien Sim heifers. Would you breed them Jersey first go round or stick with an easy calving Holstein? I figure they are a mixed breed so I really could go any direction. This year bred for dairy calves, next year beef and so on


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## Cheribelle (Jul 23, 2007)

Unless you are trying to get a milk cow, I would go for an easy calving beefer.


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## Ronney (Nov 26, 2004)

Judith, I've been down this track and whichever way you go, you've got cross bred mongrels - whatever you put them back to they are neither fish, fowl or good red herring. Jersey or Friesian bulls only made things worse so as soon as I could afford it I bought a nice Angus bull. I milk my mutley cows but all their calves go as beef. They are literally sold before they're born and it's the Angus that does it. They are uniform in colour and size and although any of the Jersey/Angus tend to be narrow in the rear end, they still grow out well and that's what people are looking for.

That's my experience but up to you.

Cheers,
Ronnie


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## ksfarmer (Apr 28, 2007)

Ronney hasthe right idea. Definately use a bull that will throw easy calving smallish calves. The most trouble I ever had was with a bunch of Simm cross heifers. Plenty of c-sections and pulled the rest. Me and the vet got real well aquainted before that train wreck was finished. I have avoided Simmentals ever since. I had hereford angus heiffers bread to the same bull and didn't have calving problem one with them.


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## Judith (Jan 10, 2003)

I have no problem breeding them Angus we have tons of them here ( think Alberta Beef ) LOL I find it interesting that some folks have had trouble with the Simmy's. In our area they have better calving ease scores than the Angus. Average Sim calf is 60-80 pounds. The Holstiens average 110 Yikes! We pulled a MONSTER bull the other day. He didnt survive . The heifers look beef absolutely no dairy traits at all.


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## ozark_jewels (Oct 7, 2005)

Make sure you choose an Angus bull who is known for calving ease. Some of the Angus breed has been tweaked enough that they are no longer known for calving ease like they used to be.


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## francismilker (Jan 12, 2006)

I've got a couple of Holstein/Sim cross heifers that I have went against the grain with. I bred them to a Jersey bull. They recently calved. The heifer calves will someday grow to be good nurse cows. I think having the 1/4 Sim actually helped me in that it added some teat size back into the mix of things. My Jerseys and Holsteins have definately been bred with inflations and milk claws in mind. They needed some teat size back into them IMO. (also the Sim put one more part of black color into the calves which could help them sale if they're are bred to a black beef bull) Once these girls had their first calf, I bred them to a MS bull. (Hoping for a blue roan heifer calf out of the deal)


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## Judith (Jan 10, 2003)

Thank you for the info on that one francismilker. What was your reasoning for picking a Jersey bull for the girls? I was thinking it would be an easy calving for them. The simm/Hol gals seem to have better udders than alot of the purebred commercial herd that I currently milk. I think that is the beef side. Nice tight little udders with a really nice shape. I have no idea how much they will milk though. But for a family milk cow I really dont need the 70 to 100 pounds per day that the commercial gals turn out. I blows me away how much milk we get out of some of the older gals.....


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## francismilker (Jan 12, 2006)

I use a Jersey bull on all of my heifers whether they are beef or dairy. As Ozarkjewels mentioned above, some angus bulls have got the low birthing weight bred out of them. The jerseys just throw smaller calves.


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## haypoint (Oct 4, 2006)

I've got a Border Collie crossed with a Rottwiler and I'm wondering if I should go with Aust. Heeler or German Shepard? Geeze folks, can you hear yourselves?
I see the results every day. People with Quarterhorse Percheron crosses that turned out as stumpy draft horses instead of the big boned hunter jumper they dreamed of. Sale barns are full of low selling "not dairy and nearly beef" cows. They sell, but often at a loss.
With the large frame Holstein and general ability to handle larger calves and the big Sims, problems with calving is fairly remote. Even still, adding DNA from a tiny, fine-boned Jersey is a real wrong turn down your breeding highway. You've got a 50-50 chance that you'll get a female. Milk production on a combination like that is anyone's guess, but I'd say just a bit below Sim, with more cream than a Holstein (that's not saying much). If you end up with a 1/4 holstein, 1/4 Sim and 1/2 Jersey, what do you imagine that loin will look like? Tasty, I'm sure, but not much of it.
Stay away from horned animals. Homesteaders/beginning farmers best intentions often fail in the de-horning department. 
Have you got a low birth weight Sim that you can use? Warm up the grill those steaks will be nice.


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## francismilker (Jan 12, 2006)

I don't breed a jersey bull to first time heifers to get seed stock for the herd. I use them for the intention of low birthweight for the heifer. While the majority of heifers lay down and calve with no intervention, I still find it more assuring to feel confident on the heifers ability to do it on her own rather than making those every hour trips to the calving lot when I'd rather stay under the covers. Also, the chances of getting a black calf out of this cross is relatively high. The Simm/Holstein cross cow should produce enough milk to have a high weining weight. Thus, allowing you to sell a black calf at the sale barn that won't equal the value of an angus weinling but will rather hold it's own. IF in fact you do get a heifer calf, in my area that 3/4 dairy animal can easily be sold to someone who's interested in having a family milk cow. (especially if she's gentled and halter broke)
Once again, mixing beef/dairy is certainly not a good practice for getting herd seed stock. It's just that most of us homesteaders are not doing this on a large scale where taking a loss per pound at the sale barn is going to hurt too much. If we put pencil and paper to it, I dare to say that most of us are actually taking a financial loss on the hobby end of it. While I truly enjoy messing with these gentle dairy animals, the beef herd that I keep down the road on leases pasture is what's paying the bills. That being said, I still use a jersey bull on those beef heifers. I used a jersey on the beefers last year and took eighteen head of 1/2 jersey 1/2 black beefer calves to the sale and the price difference was not significant enough to change my intentions for next year. Considering the trouble that I've had in the past with these Black Limousine/Brangus/Angus cross cows bred to my angus bull on birthweight issues, my sleep schedule was significantly better using the jersey. I try not to keep replacement heifers out of firstime calvers anyway. I've noticed a difference in milk ability and growth rates on the beef calves that come from heifers.
As far as the horn issue goes, I couldn't agree more. Get rid of them ASAP! I lighter framed, lighter weight calf won't hurt you near as much at the sale barn as the horns will.


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## Judith (Jan 10, 2003)

Haypoint I hear ya loud and clear. However I work with a registered herd of Holstein cows. They are TERRIBLE for calving ease!!! We have to pull an awful lot of calves. That is even with the computerized, motorized breeding programs these guys have for AI. They are soft pulls mind you but we still have to pull them... They last an average of 4 years in production!!! Yes i said 4 years . I agree that with purebred ya get what ya put in. I breed thoroughbreds so I totally understand the "purebred" mentality. That said i am breeding the crosses for myself. No intent of selling them. The goal is an easy calving critter that will produce a smaller amount of milk. Jerseys make excellent eating so i really dont see the harm in breeding to a Jersey for the first calves. (or angus or simmys) It really doent matter at all. BUT for guaranteed low birth weight I really think jersey is the most practical of the three we KNOW the birth weights will be low. The angus around here have lost alot of the low birth weights they were bred for. Although the horned herfs seem to being holding there own...


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## Ronney (Nov 26, 2004)

And perhaps Judith, that's where NZ and the States differ. I personally always keep a calf back for the freezer that has a high proportion of Jersey in it because this is my preferred beef but I would not be using a Jersey bull over my cows, even as a small time farmer, because the calves would have little sale value. Nobody wants Jersey's except to milk and even less want Jersey/beef.

On the other hand, the NZ Angus has a low birth weight and are a sought after "clean-up" bull when AI has finished in dairy herds - and for people like me who wish to on-sell the weaned calves. The purchasers will be beef buyers. It also means I don't have to be tramping the paddocks in the small hours to check on calving cows. Since I've been using an Angus bull I haven't had one calving problem. Small, chunky calves that grow like Topsy.

If your young and have time on your side to spend a few years experimenting, do so to find out what works for you.

Cheers,
Ronnie


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## Judith (Jan 10, 2003)

I think alot of Dairy farmers still use Angus here in Canada as well. But we are not getting the calving ease they once did. Hence the switch to the Simmental. The calving ease is still there. We still have good angus around just getting harder to find.


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## haypoint (Oct 4, 2006)

If you like the calving ease and lower milk production of a Jersey, please buy one. 
I've got a 3/4 ton Chevy pick up. I'd like better fuel mileage and have it fit into the garage better. Should I put a VW engine in it and cut off the box and add a box from an older Toyota? Of course not. You'd reccomend I simply trade in what doesn't suit me and buy something that does. That's my recommendation to you.
For many years, farmers with Holsteins would use Angus or Herford on any heifers they thought would have calving troubles. There has to be some Angus left that rank high in calving ease. There are enough Holstein/Beef breed cows on the market to insure a place at a livestock auction or just eat it yourself. Just because your crossbreed is a heifer is no reason to breed her. There are plenty of beef breed heifers going to slaughter that you could "rescue" and add to your breeding program.
Most of the folks with the Percheron-quarterhorse or the Belted Galloway-Highlander crosses expected to keep them. Some do, most don't.


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## Judith (Jan 10, 2003)

Thank you for your opinion haypoint.


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