# Non-GMO Alfalfa pellets



## "SPIKE" (Dec 7, 2011)

I added this info to the "everyone should watch this" thread, but though it may be good to mention seperately for those interested that might miss it in the other thread. I would hate to eleminate alfalfa pellets totally, since my hay is a mixed grass. This is what the Tennessee Farmer's Co-op in my area sells

Dehy Alfalfa Mills
5935 McCall Lane
Arlington, NE
www.dehyalfalfamills.com (site is under some construction at this time)
Phone 402-478-4344* 402-478-4344 

*I spoke with Brent and David is the owner. They have a 5000 acre farm and grow Non-GMO alfalfa. You may be able to find a distributor in your area. They have a Certified Facility SAFE FEED/SAFE FOOD label on the bag, which I learned has to do with the facility more than the products themselves. I suggested to Brent that if they really sell non-GMO they should add that to the label. They do spray crops, but also have a totally organic line.

SPIKE


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## BackfourtyMI. (Sep 3, 2007)

I'm going to check at my feed store & see if there alfalfa pellets are GMO free. I can get Standlee at TSC though & they are GMO free according to the Watch this thread.


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## Crazy Farmgirl (Oct 21, 2012)

Because the alfalfa is newly released as GMO crop, first plantings would have been last year, there are probably still a lot that are GMO free as they will be older stands but the future may see more.


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## mammabooh (Sep 1, 2004)

To agree with what Crazy Farmgirl just mentioned...

Around here, alfalfa is a long-term crop, not something that is planted new every year. So, a farmer plants alfalfa or a mixture, and then cuts and bales it for years. I don't think there is anyone around here that plants, harvests once, and then tills it under and starts over.


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## Sherry in Iowa (Jan 10, 2010)

Our biggest supplier lives 5 miles from us. Last year he was going to plant a new field of alfalfa. Hubby asked him if it was GMO alfalfa. Now this guy and his brother are BIG farmers. They are NOT organic farmers. Know what he said? NO GMO ALFALFA will be planted on any of our farms. It's nasty and we don't want to open that pandora's box. Well..coming from this guy..we were shocked. If HE doesn't want it...something is up.


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## KrisD (May 26, 2011)

True mammabooth but for many of us the only option is Grainland Alfalfa pellets made by Purina. So who knows where or what it was grown with. I personally am using Timothy pellets that way no risk of GMOs and I'm not burning my does out with too much protein.


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## haypoint (Oct 4, 2006)

never mind.


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## Minelson (Oct 16, 2007)

haypoint said:


> While a great many acres of alfalfa are regularlly sprayed with insecticides, few are sprayed with herbicides and there is no GMO alfalfa currently on the market. It just came available in the middle of last summer and if planted the moment it was available, it wouldn't be ready for harvest until next summer.


Well I hope that is true because I just bought 2 bags of Standlee and I was afraid it might be GMO.


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## harvestmoonfarm (Nov 24, 2012)

Standlee is non-GMO this year, but stated they may have to change next year. Several of us have written to them and signed a petition. I feed Standlee pellets to all of my goats and they love them.


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## motdaugrnds (Jul 3, 2002)

I'm feeding Standlee too; and would hate to see them go GMO


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## CaliannG (Apr 29, 2005)

~smiles~ 5 years.

That is about how long a stand of alfalfa is good for before you have to plow it under and grow something else for a while.

That being said, alfalfa is not a real worry. Round-up ready alfalfa is rather silly, because the plant itself is fairly good at rabid growth and choking everything else out. Who wants to bother with the expense and labor using an herbicide on something that, due to its very nature, gets rid of weeds and such on its own? Especially something that is a perennial?

Now, if they came up with a Bt type alfalfa that, say, repelled or killed alfalfa weevils and blister beetles? The South would go absolutely ape-poop crazy over it, and you WOULD have to worry about a huge influx of GMO alfalfa.

Heck, if that happened, *I'd* be tempted to buy the stuff and seed it!


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## PrettyPaisley (May 18, 2007)

Contact Standlee and see what they use to bind the pellets together. Southern States uses soybean oil (GMO no doubt) so we don't buy SS alfalfa. My money says Standlee does, too.


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## farmerDale (Jan 8, 2011)

PrettyPaisley said:


> Contact Standlee and see what they use to bind the pellets together. Southern States uses soybean oil (GMO no doubt) so we don't buy SS alfalfa. My money says Standlee does, too.


Oil does not contain the gene. The gene is a protein, and the oil has no protein.


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## KrisD (May 26, 2011)

http://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2011/11/25/wesson-oil-contains-gmo.aspx


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## KrisD (May 26, 2011)

So according to the article above if a farmer plants his GMO alfalfa this year and it blooms this summer the pollen from this very newly planted crop can easily contaminate the 5 years old stand of Alfalfa being cut and baled this summer. So my non GMO alfalfa is now GMO even though it's 5 years old. That means there is no promise of non GMO alfalfa very shortly.
The pollen can travel 5 miles! That also means when I buy alfalfa honey I could be eating GMO honey now.


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## CaliannG (Apr 29, 2005)

You may have lost out on the honey long ago, Kris. Many beekeepers rent hives to farmers to improve pollination. I know lots of corn farmers rent hives to improve their yield. And while the honey may say "Alfalfa", it is really difficult to tell the bees that they aren't allowed to harvest from anything else., so if a corn field is next door to that alfalfa field the hives happen to be in......

~chuckles~ All sorts of things can end up in honey. One beekeep got a shock when he harvested a bunch of bright blue honey. Seems he lived next door to a Mars factory and one year they had to trash a bunch of their blue M&M's.........


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## farmerDale (Jan 8, 2011)

KrisD said:


> So according to the article above if a farmer plants his GMO alfalfa this year and it blooms this summer the pollen from this very newly planted crop can easily contaminate the 5 years old stand of Alfalfa being cut and baled this summer. So my non GMO alfalfa is now GMO even though it's 5 years old. That means there is no promise of non GMO alfalfa very shortly.
> The pollen can travel 5 miles! That also means when I buy alfalfa honey I could be eating GMO honey now.


If alfalfa is left to bloom before being hayed, something is seriously wrong with the farmers timing. And no, your existing alfalfa will not suddenly become gm. Its offspring (seed) may get a tiny fraction, but your existing plants do not change into gm, even if a gm crop was right beside or mixed in the same field as yours.


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## Minelson (Oct 16, 2007)

farmerDale said:


> Oil does not contain the gene. The gene is a protein, and the oil has no protein.


So corn oil, cottonseed oil and canola oil have no gmo's in them? :stars:
Even though the video's and articles say they do and it even went as far as a lawsuit?


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## farmerDale (Jan 8, 2011)

Minelson said:


> So corn oil, cottonseed oil and canola oil have no gmo's in them? :stars:
> Even though the video's and articles say they do and it even went as far as a lawsuit?


Correct. At least in the case of canola. I honestly can not speak to the others. But canola oil is gm free, because canola oil has no protein, and the gene is a protein. Here is a thing: Dubai imports raw canola seed, crushes it, and ships the oil to gm panicked Europe. No questions asked.

If I showed you a video that explained why organic grain farming is no sustainable and less productive by FAR than conventional farming, would you believe it? Probably not. Our pre-conceived notions often win the day in what we see. Thing is, there is a lot of stuff on this internet. Not all of it is true. In this case, if they are stating canola was created through gm methods, and that their is gm material in the oil: Well I am afraid to have to inform you, that is an absolute lie.

And you know how that goes. When you realize one thing is incorrect, and blatantly lied about, you have to begin to wonder about their other fantastical claims.


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## Minelson (Oct 16, 2007)

haypoint said:


> Lots of stuff in the video is not true. But since none of it is goat related, we best not discuss it. I've posted what sugar is and there's no GMO in that. Same for refined oils.
> 
> Check it out yourself, but if it isn't goat related (who is feeding oil to goats?) it shant be discussed.:bash:


Well PrettyPaisly brought up that oil may be used as a binder for alfalfa pellets. I think it is goat related. And the first thing we grab when a goat is bloated is oil. 
I just looked at my Standlee bag and it says ''ingredients: sun cured Idaho grown noxious weed free alfalfa hay forage''. I would think that would mean that there is no oil in it? But maybe weed killer to keep it noxious weed free.


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## mammabooh (Sep 1, 2004)

haypoint said:


> (who is feeding oil to goats?)


People DO feed oil to goats...it is often used as a topdressing.


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## Sherry in Iowa (Jan 10, 2010)

I use Olive oil for the goats..lol..organic just like we use in the house. It's the first thing I use for bloat too.


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## Sherry in Iowa (Jan 10, 2010)

haypoint said:


> Rest assured that the olives were not GMO. Also, rest assured that none of the refined oil from GMO crops contain any modified protein. Understand that corn oils, canola oil, vegetable oils, soybean oils likely came from a GMO product. It is also just as likely, and equally unimportant, that the guy that harvested the crop wears a baseball cap with a logo on front.:hysterical:




Gee..I don't know why you feel you have to comment on the olive oil. Where did I even come close to saying that olive oil was gmo? Where? 

You have totally turned me off of this goat forum. When you decide to take a vacation..I guess I'll come back.

And just so I can get this off my chest..is it so important to be the biggest, loudest and most rude voice in the "room"? I hope this has given you a great deal of satisfaction. I am here..because I love goats, because I do raise them in a fashion that everyone else may not be aware of and I like to share my experiences with them.

I am also here..because my fibro keeps me limited at times as to what I can do. I rarely go on the other forums here..rarely. THIS is/was my home. But ya know what? As much as I love this place...I'm not taking this anymore. If you were answering a question..okay. If you were correcting me because you have so much vast knowledge..okay. But to laugh and act like I am oblivious to what I am feeding..horse pucky.

My fibro and I cannot take you anymore.

Rileyjo...no need to lock the thread over me. Sorry I vented..I will lurk on threads that are being inundated purposely by these people.


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## Ford Zoo (Jan 27, 2012)

KrisD said:


> The pollen can travel 5 miles! That also means when I buy alfalfa honey I could be eating GMO honey now.


I was just talking to curator at the Science Museum of MN about this. She said corn pollen is known to travel upto 60 miles! I wonder then if alfalfa pollen would do the same, given the right weather conditions.


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## Oat Bucket Farm (Jul 28, 2006)

If the process of making refined oil from corn/soy/rapeseed/etc. completely destroys all genetic material so it doesn't fall into the GMO category, it still falls into the WAY over processed category and still won't be fed to my kids or animals since I am trying to avoid over processed foods in my household. And processing something until its DNA is destroyed, then yeah, its over processed.


Can I completely eliminate it, probably not. But I can limit it as much as possible.


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## Minelson (Oct 16, 2007)

Sherry, please don't leave...I love your posts! :awh:
Isn't there a block button or something you can use to not see certain posters?


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## farmerDale (Jan 8, 2011)

Oat Bucket Farm said:


> If the process of making refined oil from corn/soy/rapeseed/etc. completely destroys all genetic material so it doesn't fall into the GMO category, it still falls into the WAY over processed category and still won't be fed to my kids or animals since I am trying to avoid over processed foods in my household. And processing something until its DNA is destroyed, then yeah, its over processed.
> 
> 
> Can I completely eliminate it, probably not. But I can limit it as much as possible.


Thing is, it is as simple as the fact that the oil has no protein. It is not over refining IMO. It is not the refining that destroys the genetic material, it is that the genetic material does not exist in the oil because it is a protein.

Now, I do not currently have goats, though we are seriously considering getting a couple for milk. The goat forum is not my home. But if you found that goats were being mis-represented in say the outdoor forum, yet never hardly went there, would you let it slide? Or would you jump in with the correct information, and set things straight?

I roam through a lot of these forums on this lovely site. I have learned, I have shared, I have taught. If I see false information about something I specialize in, in any forum, I will not let it slide, and be lied about. 

I think this is what happens with some of us on here. We only aim to correct false information, about things we do happen to have a lot of knowledge about. If this brings us to a forum we are not typically active on, in the name of correcting information, so be it. Why can we all not just learn from those who have experience and expertise in a certain field, rather than kick them off, get all upset that they are setting the record straight?

I would not ask Paquebot about raising pasture hogs, but I would ask highlands. I would not ask highlands about growing garlic, but I would sure ask Paquebot!

So if you have gm concerns, and are intent on getting your information from dubious videos, dubious and questionable websites, why can we not balance this information, with some of us who actually have grown these crops for almost 20 years? Do we have less expertise than some anti gm panicky knee jerk person who makes a video? 

I hope we can be turned to for information is all. Our information is as valid or more as the information from someone who has never actually grown and studied these crops.

I just want to share this, so our friends in all forums understand why some of us show up when false information is posted. I would hope if we are adding to the conversation, that it is not a reason to be banned, or given infraction points for simply sharing an opinion..

Thank you,

Dale


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## April (Nov 28, 2006)

I am not referring to any specific person's posting. Having said that, there are many ways of sharing an opinion. Barging in and calling people stupid in a thinly veiled way and being sarcastic (and yes, you can put forth sarcasm in typing - it's all still language) is not a good way if you truly want to disseminate information. Instead that reeks of defensiveness and a knee-jerk response to feeling threatened. When people respond negatively, it's probably related to how the opinion was presented. I'm not pointing any fingers at anyone's behavior in particular. 

It's incredibly easy to say, "This is how I feel and this is where I got the information." instead of "You're an idiot for thinking what you think." If you can't present your information in a civilized manner, I don't particularly want to hear from you. Again - I am not referring to a specific post.


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## rileyjo (Feb 14, 2005)

The issue is not whether we should be discussing Gmos. The issue is that some posters jump from forum to forum and bully anyone who does not share their opinion.

People are allowed to believe whatever they want. If they want to hate Gmo products with a passion, that is their right. If they chose to educate themselves (or not) to have a better understanding, that is their right.

There are bullies in HT who sit like spiders and bash. You cant have a full discussion if a bully waits to comment on every post that people make. Many a good and useful thread gets locked because people are not being allowed to express themselves without being ridiculed.

You can come on the goat forum and say the world is flat and the goats are going to fall off if they get too close to the edge. You are entitled to your opinion. I dont have to agree with you but I do have to respect your right to believe it.
We have rules about Evangelizing on HT. They are posted on the Admin section further down. 
Please respect your fellow HT'ers at all times.


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## Ford Zoo (Jan 27, 2012)

Since this thread is about alfalfa, I'm going to redirect back to it. I have a time finding alfalfa bales in my area. Apparently it does not grow well and needs to be reseeded frequently, adding too much cost to the farmer from what I have been told. (Can non-GMO sed even be purchased now days?) I did buy some nice looking bales at auction a few years back for $2.75 a bale, but I'm sure I got lucky and that won;t happen again soon. 

How does the bagged stuff, assuming I feel it is the brand I want to feed my goats, compare in cost to a 50# square bale. Guess I'm asking how much of the bagged stuff I would have to feed to equal a 50# bale, especially since it seems there would be less waste with the pellets. Chaffhaye is out of the question in my neck of the woods.


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## farmer9989 (Apr 22, 2008)

They just don't understand that no one(well a lot of us,most don't )wants gmo's weather or not they do any harm or not.
It's already part of the fabric .just don't want any more.
sorry for off topic


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## haypoint (Oct 4, 2006)

Lots of non-GMO alfalfa seed available. Hard to pick what variety is right for your area, climate, insect problems, disease problems in the plants, drainage, soil type, moisture, days between frosts, etc. Each variety is suited to different situations.
In areas where alfalfa can be mowed 3, 4 or 5 times a season and the variety matches up to a properly fertilized, Ph balanced, well watered, well drained field, alfalfa will out compete weeds. In other areas with less than perfect conditions, alfalfa will get choked out by weeds.
All alfalfa seed is costly and getting a field properly tilled up, smoothed out,limed and fertilized is costly. There is also pressure to simply grow corn and not worry about getting your hay rained on. GMO allows killing the weeds on the very first establishment year and again years later if the weeds start taking over. Saves soil, fuel, seed, while keeping the field in production and safe from erosion.
There are other varieties of hay that is good for goats. Birdsfoot Trefoil would be good for goats if cut early. Unless you are against feeding corn, a slightly lower protein hay and some grain might balance out while you are short on alfalfa.


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## Minelson (Oct 16, 2007)

Ford Zoo said:


> Since this thread is about alfalfa, I'm going to redirect back to it. I have a time finding alfalfa bales in my area. Apparently it does not grow well and needs to be reseeded frequently, adding too much cost to the farmer from what I have been told. (Can non-GMO sed even be purchased now days?) I did buy some nice looking bales at auction a few years back for $2.75 a bale, but I'm sure I got lucky and that won;t happen again soon.
> 
> How does the bagged stuff, assuming I feel it is the brand I want to feed my goats, compare in cost to a 50# square bale. Guess I'm asking how much of the bagged stuff I would have to feed to equal a 50# bale, especially since it seems there would be less waste with the pellets. Chaffhaye is out of the question in my neck of the woods.


Good question! I often wonder about that myself. My bales weigh about 50lbs and I paid $8.50. I think the pellets are around $12 for 40lbs. So if you figure by weight the bales are a better buy...but then you would have to factor in the waste and how do you do that? I guess I would have to figure out how long it takes me to go through a bag compared to a bale to get a rough estimate of which is most cost effective. Also...I just thought of this...I have to drive a lot farther to get the bales so I would have to include the gas I use in the price.


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## KrisD (May 26, 2011)

I have zero waste with the Timothy pellets. Yesterday it was $12 for 50#. The rolled oats were $14 for 50#. Yes I can get them cheaper but I am trying to support our local feed stored that has been struggling. 
I will still do a grass hay in winter when there isn't much forage.


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## Ford Zoo (Jan 27, 2012)

KrisD said:


> I have zero waste with the Timothy pellets. Yesterday it was $12 for 50#. The rolled oats were $14 for 50#. Yes I can get them cheaper but I am trying to support our local feed stored that has been struggling.
> I will still do a grass hay in winter when there isn't much forage.


What is the calcium content of Timothy pellets? I don;t think I have seen those around here and I only want the alfalfa for the calcium. Right now, I am top dressing feed with CC for at risk does.


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## Shygal (May 26, 2003)

Sherry in Iowa said:


> I am here..because I love goats, because I do raise them in a fashion that everyone else may not be aware of and I like to share my experiences with them.
> 
> I rarely go on the other forums here..rarely. THIS is/was my home. But ya know what? As much as I love this place...I'm not taking this anymore.
> 
> ...


No need for you to leave your home, there is a simple solution - put him on ignore.


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## CaliannG (Apr 29, 2005)

Top dress with coconut oil here. As far as I know, there are currently no plans to GM coconut trees.  Palm trees neither. 

farmerDale, haypoint, it really doesn't matter WHY folks wish to avoid GMOs, just like it doesn't matter WHY someone might wish to avoid carbs, fats, pesticides, blah, blah, blah. As Cagefree mentioned somewhere, if the only reason someone wants to avoid something is that they don't like the color, then they should be able to do so without anyone telling them that they are wrong.

haypoint, if you are used to meat goats, then you might not be aware of the practice of top-dressing with oils. Dairy goat folks have a pain in keeping fat content up in our dairy goat diets.


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## farmerDale (Jan 8, 2011)

CaliannG said:


> Top dress with coconut oil here. As far as I know, there are currently no plans to GM coconut trees.  Palm trees neither.
> 
> farmerDale, haypoint, it really doesn't matter WHY folks wish to avoid GMOs, just like it doesn't matter WHY someone might wish to avoid carbs, fats, pesticides, blah, blah, blah. As Cagefree mentioned somewhere, if the only reason someone wants to avoid something is that they don't like the color, then they should be able to do so without anyone telling them that they are wrong.
> 
> haypoint, if you are used to meat goats, then you might not be aware of the practice of top-dressing with oils. Dairy goat folks have a pain in keeping fat content up in our dairy goat diets.


But when someone says canola is a genetically altered plant, or that canola oil contains gm proteins, it is I believe the correct thing to share the truth. There is a difference between good reason to avoid something, and poor reasons based on mis-truths and lies, right?

If someone says something about gm crops or such, that is not a fact, but only a point based upon no scientific foundation, and spreads this is-information to others ( evangelizes), who are not in a position to have the proper information to learn from, it is my hope to share the other side of the story to supplement the total knowledge base. 

Again, if someone were lying about goats, knowingly, or unknowingly in the poultry forum, I am sure the goat folks would crash the forum and try to share some truths about goats. That is how i am and will be about gm crops. It would be my hope a farmer who has used the technology, studied it, and used it carefully for 17 years, would be paid a bit of heed. As would the poultry professor who spread lies about goats in a non-goat forum...


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## AngieM2 (May 10, 2002)

farmerDale - rather than evangelizing here on this thread, there is a thread in Homesteading Questions for all those that are Pro- GMO altered foods and such. Your view point would be good there as that will be a reference where those with doubts can see your view point and not have it crashed on a thread in goat forum.

http://www.homesteadingtoday.com/ge...vor-pro-gmo-people-post-here.html#post6445242

is a link for your convenience.


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## Oat Bucket Farm (Jul 28, 2006)

The point of this thread is to discuss non-GMO alternatives. It is not here so someone can try to change another's mind. If you are all for GMO products and think they are the greatest thing since sliced bread (really? Is sliced bread the pinnacle or human success? Where did that saying even come from?) and make sure to include them in every meal, then no worries. We aren't trying to change that. You are most welcome to believe or disbelieve it as much as you want. This thread is for those of us who would feel more comfortable avoiding it.


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## farmerDale (Jan 8, 2011)

AngieM2 said:


> farmerDale - rather than evangelizing here on this thread, there is a thread in Homesteading Questions for all those that are Pro- GMO altered foods and such. Your view point would be good there as that will be a reference where those with doubts can see your view point and not have it crashed on a thread in goat forum.
> 
> http://www.homesteadingtoday.com/ge...vor-pro-gmo-people-post-here.html#post6445242
> 
> is a link for your convenience.


Evangelizing? Are you serious? I came here to mention that oil has no protein in it, therefore no genetically modified material, so people can breathe easier, and not worry about the various oils from gm crops. Evangelizing would be telling people what they should be doing. I am simply telling a fact.

Thank you for the link, I do appreciate it!


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## "SPIKE" (Dec 7, 2011)

In a human, there is a DNA strand in every cell of the body. If you squeeze the oil out of me, the cells in the oil will still contain my DNA.

Is it different in a plant? I do not know.

If you take a GMO seed and grow a plant from it, is the DNA of the whole plant not changed? Would every cell of that plant not carry the modified DNA strand?

Several of the post refer to no protiens in the extracted oil. Do the oil cells not carry the DNA strand of the plant in its cells?


SPIKE


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## Oat Bucket Farm (Jul 28, 2006)

I'm curious about that too Spike and for the same reason. It would certainly help to understand that part better if there were good sites that explained it fully.


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## farmerDale (Jan 8, 2011)

[quote="SPIKE";6445641]In a human, there is a DNA strand in every cell of the body. If you squeeze the oil out of me, the cells in the oil will still contain my DNA.

Is it different in a plant? I do not know.

If you take a GMO seed and grow a plant from it, is the DNA of the whole plant not changed? Would every cell of that plant not carry the modified DNA strand?

Several of the post refer to no protiens in the extracted oil. Do the oil cells not carry the DNA strand of the plant in its cells?


SPIKE[/quote]

There is simply no protein in oil from canola seed. The genes that monsanto, bayer, and others perfected and spliced, is a protein. There is not any protein in the oil.

Try this link:

http://www.canolacouncil.org/oil-and-meal/canola-oil/canola-the-myths-debunked/

And this:

http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/canola-oil/AN01281

And this:

http://www.snopes.com/medical/toxins/canola.asp


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## Oat Bucket Farm (Jul 28, 2006)

Yes, its a protein they splice into it, but once spliced in, it becomes part of the DNA chain and DNA is in every part of the organism, even the oils.


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## farmerDale (Jan 8, 2011)

Oat Bucket Farm said:


> Yes, its a protein they splice into it, but once spliced in, it becomes part of the DNA chain and DNA is in every part of the organism, even the oils.


I take it then you did not look at the links? A person asks for links, and then refuses to read them. That was a productive use of my time.... 

What you are saying is false, which is too bad, because you have people liking a post that is a lie. This is what is unfortunate in my mind.


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## KrisD (May 26, 2011)

Personally I would never trust anything the Canola counsel says. They're function is to promote a product, they sure is heck are going to say anything bad about it. 

The Mayo clinic isn't going to go against the FDA which we know is in bed with Monsanto.

http://www.topclassactions.com/laws...1242-conagra-wesson-oil-class-action-lawsuit-

Regardless this thread is about Alfalfa pellets. Many of us do not want to use GMO Alfalfa. It will be hitting the fields soon and cross pollination IS an issue. So lets stick to the issue at hand please.


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## Paquebot (May 10, 2002)

I happened to think of something about this topic and how goat farmers should be the very last to be concerned about GMO alfalfa. The gene which resulted in making an RR plant came from another plant. Goats are known to eat just about any species of plant on this planet. If they can eat the gene which exists in one plant, what's wrong with them eating the same gene in another plant?

Martin


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## JBarGFarmKeeper (Nov 1, 2011)

farmerDale said:


> Again, if someone were lying about goats, knowingly, or unknowingly in the poultry forum, I am sure the goat folks would crash the forum and try to share some truths about goats.


I can tell you from my perspective, probably not...

I live here. I ventured over to the cattle forum researching breeds about a year ago and was startled my the tone and lack of caring and quickly slinked back over here where it was safe. 

If they are bashing goats over there or in poultry or wherever...I wouldn't even know it. I don't have time to search the whole forum for "buzz" words or know, literally, anyone over there that is going to say squat about it here or by PM. 

A question...
If GMOs are what you say, then why have the governments of whole continents banned them? Worldwide, I don't think "we" are the minority.

I, personally, have to question your motives. Where I am sitting, I am concerned about the long-term health of my family, animals and food supply (for both). As a professional farmer, it would appear that you have a financial interest in the success of GMOs. I believe you said (pardon me if I am wrong) that it is difficult to make a profit using "conventional" farming. 

When I chose to "accept" information from any venue, I have to question what the "offerer" has to gain. Monsanto is huge and it is obvious that they are motivated by money. You, by your own admission, are part of the industry. We, here on this side of the fence/forum, are consumers. What do the people that produced the video (on the other thread) have to gain? 

I feel for the merchants that are on the front lines. I have mentioned GMO to them and got the blank stare. We are not educated about choices in this country and, really, not given any, because the producers are not made to label these products. Our only hope is to by "organic" to make sure that they are non-GMO and even that is a temporary thing, for in a couple of years, those plants will be polluted too.

If you want non-GMO alfalfa seed, buy organic. I haven't been able to buy it for months through our food co-op.

I hope we have a wonderful day here....


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## prairiedog (Jan 18, 2007)

Well put Jb


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## Crazy Farmgirl (Oct 21, 2012)

I would compare the oils derived from plants/seeds to the water that is in our own bodies, yes it is in every cell but if you squeeze it all out it is just H2O no human DNA. It's a crude example the same principle, your DNA does not exist in every molecule of your body.

Below is an excerpt on oils.
There is a lot of info as well as links to research/studies.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genetically_modified_food

Highly processed derivatives containing little to no DNA or protein
[edit]Lecithin


An example of a phosphatidylcholine, a type of phospholipid in lecithin. Red - choline and phosphate group; Black - glycerol; Green - unsaturated fatty acid; Blue - saturated fatty acid
Corn oil and soy oil, already free of protein and DNA, are sources of lecithin, which is widely used in processed food as an emulsifier.[29][30] Lecithin is highly processed. Therefore, GM protein or DNA from the original GM crop from which it is derived is often undetectable - in other words, it is not substantially different from lecithin derived from non-GM crops.[11][31] Nonetheless, consumer concerns about genetically modified food have extended to highly purified derivatives from GM food, like lecithin.[32] This concern led to policy and regulatory changes in Europe in 2000, when Regulation (EC) 50/2000 was passed[33] which required labelling of food containing additives derived from GMOs, including lecithin. Because it is nearly impossible to detect the origin of derivatives like lecithin, the European regulations require those who wish to sell lecithin in Europe to use a meticulous system of Identity preservation (IP). [31][34]
[edit]Vegetable oil
Most vegetable oil used in the US is produced from several crops, including the GM crops canola,[35] corn,[29][36] cotton,[37] and soybeans.[38] Vegetable oil is sold directly to consumers as cooking oil, shortening, and margarine,[39] and is used in prepared foods.
There is no, or a vanishingly small amount of, protein or DNA from the original GM crop in vegetable oil.[11][40] Vegetable oil is made of triglycerides extracted from plants or seeds and then refined, and may be further processed via hydrogenation to turn liquid oils into solids. The refining process[41] removes all, or nearly all non-triglyceride ingredients.[42]

There is also info on sugars and other products with link to actual research if you care to read that also.


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## PrettyPaisley (May 18, 2007)

Minelson said:


> Well PrettyPaisly brought up that oil may be used as a binder for alfalfa pellets. I think it is goat related. And the first thing we grab when a goat is bloated is oil.
> I just looked at my Standlee bag and it says ''ingredients: sun cured Idaho grown noxious weed free alfalfa hay forage''. I would think that would mean that there is no oil in it? But maybe weed killer to keep it noxious weed free.


 
I am pretty sure that something has to be used to bind those pellets together. Sadly, there are things that do not have to be listed on the label - spices, carrier oils in vaccines, and quite possibly animal feed. I would just double check by contacting Standlee if you are trying to avoid GMOs and/or soy. I used to use Standlee but switched to Chaffehye for now. (The concern for unlisted ingredients came from a conversation with a woman at a feed store-I didn't dream this up.)


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## Crazy Farmgirl (Oct 21, 2012)

According to Standlee's FAQ page there are no binders used

http://www.standleehay.com/FAQ.aspx

I also looked up the other brands available in my area and ALL reported no binders being used. I really think with this being such touchy subject that before condemning a product that we do the research and provide the info to back it up!


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## farmerDale (Jan 8, 2011)

JBarGFarmKeeper said:


> I can tell you from my perspective, probably not...
> 
> I live here. I ventured over to the cattle forum researching breeds about a year ago and was startled my the tone and lack of caring and quickly slinked back over here where it was safe.
> 
> ...



Some great questions you raise there. I would prefer though, in light of the mood, and my concern to seriously hijack this thread, and turn y'all against me, to maybe not answer point for point in this forum. IF I get a chance, I would be as happy to pm you a few points later tonight. So as not to steal the heart of this thread away. 

If you wish. If you don't really desire a pm, I understand that too. Take care,

Dale


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## PrettyPaisley (May 18, 2007)

Good to know about Standlee. Checking out the ingredients is best-and better safe than sorry. There is so much crap in our food and even more in what we feed our livestock it's best to question everything, IMO.


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## Sherry in Iowa (Jan 10, 2010)

I would *guess* that companies that say that they are not using binders .. especially the ones that are GMO free..are NOT using them. They probably are using a really high compression machine to pelletize them. 

Not all alfalfa pellets are equal. Some probably do use binders, or added ingredients. It's just that a couple of these companies are basing their sales to customers by offering a pretty pure product..ie..gmo free, etc.


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## KrisD (May 26, 2011)

FordZoo the calcium content of Timothy is .43-.45% depending on time of year.
Alfalfa is 1.08%
I just give my girls a Tums for extra calcium and they think it's a treat.


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## Oat Bucket Farm (Jul 28, 2006)

According to Farmers Weekly, GMO isn't producing the crops like they want. Not sure what kind of source Famers Weekly is but it doesn't appear to be a raging anti-GMO site or anything like that. Just news about farming and livestock and farm equipment for sale.

http://www.fwi.co.uk/articles/06/02...top-planting-gms-after-poor-global-yields.htm


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## haypoint (Oct 4, 2006)

http://www.nass.usda.gov/Charts_and_Maps/Field_Crops/cornprod.asp


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