# How Would You Stop Spread of COVID-19?



## MoonRiver (Sep 2, 2007)

I'm really questioning the government's plan. I don't see how social distancing and washing your hands are going to make even a small dent in the spread of the virus. If you work in an office building, how many times a day are you going to wash your hands? How are you going to maintain a 6' minimum distance to your co-workers? How often are restaurants, stores, etc going to thoroughly disinfect the premises? What about handling money, credit cards, door knobs, drawers, cabinets, etc.

Or if you drive, will you clean your hands before you get in the car? When you get home, will you disinfect your shoes and immediate remove clothes? Should you take a shower as soon as getting home?

The places where this has seemed to work are China, S Korea, Taiwan, Hong Kong, and possibly Singapore. China is a dictatorship and the other countries are tiny compared to US and have a totally different culture than US. I also think people in those countries were likely to be wearing masks.

So far, no western democracy has been able to control the spread of the virus. Romania and Hungary bear watching as they put strong restrictions on right away. I'm not seeing what we are doing that is much different from what European countries tried.

What worries me is that controlling the virus means people will continue to be susceptible for months to come, until a vaccine is developed. What is to stop continual flare-ups from happening? And like most vaccines, once developed, it will not be 100% effective.

Here's what I think the government plan is. Try to flatten the curve if possible, but understand that hundreds of thousands if not millions are probably going to die. 

There are a few of other options:

Quarantine the vulnerable and let the virus run rampant. 

Quarantine the vulnerable and try to control spread of the virus using social distancing and hand washing.
Develop a mask that is comfortable and protective and able to be re-used. Develop gloves with an anti-viral coating. Require people to wear a mask and gloves when outside the house.
Do nothing and see if it is as bad as predicted.


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## fordy (Sep 13, 2003)

MoonRiver said:


> I'm really questioning the government's plan. I don't see how social distancing and washing your hands are going to make even a small dent in the spread of the virus. If you work in an office building, how many times a day are you going to wash your hands? How are you going to maintain a 6' minimum distance to your co-workers? How often are restaurants, stores, etc going to thoroughly disinfect the premises? What about handling money, credit cards, door knobs, drawers, cabinets, etc.
> 
> Or if you drive, will you clean your hands before you get in the car? When you get home, will you disinfect your shoes and immediate remove clothes? Should you take a shower as soon as getting home?
> 
> ...


.....................................................................................................................
..............As accurate test kits become available , people can become "certified" for travel to obtain food and gas as well as returning to their jobs ! This also increases the burden on local medical personnel to deal with those people who have become infected with the virus !
............You can't just institute a general travel ban over specific neighborhoods because people have to be able to travel to 'Their' local Wal Marts to obtain the basic staples to maintain their day to day health ! , fordy


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## Alice In TX/MO (May 10, 2002)

There is no INTENT to stop it. The recommendations are intended to SLOW it down so that the wave of seriously ill people is extended over a longer period of time. This is to avoid overwhelming the healthcare system.


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

Some are going to give themselves a stroke or heart attack brought on by the stress of obsessing over this virus.


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## Alice In TX/MO (May 10, 2002)

Probably.


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## gilberte (Sep 25, 2004)

A lot of these folks don't even wash their hands after taking a crap


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## SLADE (Feb 20, 2004)

gilberte said:


> A lot of these folks don't even wash their hands after taking a crap


How do you know?


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## gilberte (Sep 25, 2004)

I've been in restrooms and watched them come out after flushing and proceed out the door, passing the sink without so much as a glance at it


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## MoonRiver (Sep 2, 2007)

Alice In TX/MO said:


> There is no INTENT to stop it. The recommendations are intended to SLOW it down so that the wave of seriously ill people is extended over a longer period of time. This is to avoid overwhelming the healthcare system.


I know what the government plans to do. I'm asking how we can stop it.


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

MoonRiver said:


> I'm asking *how we can stop it*.


We could nuke the planet from space.

Otherwise you'll have to go with the answer that's been given every time you've asked before, which is "We can't"


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## CKelly78z (Jul 16, 2017)

I am one of the vulnerable ones who has a compromised immune system, and past radiation lung damage. I do tend to wash my hands much more, but I avoid hand sanitizer. I try to shoulder bump doors rather than grabbing the handle, and trying to get home projects done rather than being out with friends/family. My wife, and I have started taking a low dose vitimin D gummy every day to try to boost immunity.


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

The single biggest thing "we" can do is to not be around other people. 

If we do this well enough, and long enough we give pharma a chance to create treatments and tests. Mostly we slow the thing down so we don't all get sick at once and overwhelm the healthcare industry. 

Beyond that, it is washing hands, etc.


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## alleyyooper (Apr 22, 2005)

I am going coyote hunting with friends. spend more time with dogs than people I do not know really well. We wash our hands and wear nitrite gloves a lot when out. Masks are not much use to us who have full beards. Best to use a full resperator.

Sort of like shutting rhe barn door not the horses are out seems like to me.
Bring those home who chose to spend money on a cruise ship well knowen to be places to get sick.
Like I heard many times as a young lad, *you made your bed now lay in it.*

 Al
*
*


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## Wolf mom (Mar 8, 2005)

MoonRiver said:


> I know what the government plans to do. *I'm asking how we can stop it.*


We can't. All we, collectively, can do is minimize the effects as we have no vaccine against it or shot to stop it. As far as me, individually, I'm calmly doing what the government suggests.


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## MoonRiver (Sep 2, 2007)

Wolf mom said:


> We can't. All we, collectively, can do is minimize the effects as we have no vaccine against it or shot to stop it. As far as me, individually, I'm calmly doing what the government suggests.


I'm surprised that people are so accepting. It's times like these where thinking outside the box is needed. 

To me it seems obvious we need a better mask, something that is cheap and easy to make. You have to get hit with a certain minimal load of the virus for it to take hold. A mask is a simple way to minimize how much virus a person is exposed to.


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## Miss Kay (Mar 31, 2012)

I've been reading about the 1918 virus. We could learn a lot from that time. It seems the only thing that really works is to stay away from people until it finally dies out. Retired people can do that if we have enough supplies but lots of people still have to go to work. We have never seen anything like this in our lifetime but it has happened over and over throughout history and this seems to be our turn. Those who get it first and recover will be immune for a time, how long no one knows yet. But, they could be on the front lines working without a threat to being infected again which could help some.


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## po boy (Jul 12, 2010)

MoonRiver said:


> I'm surprised that people are so accepting. It's times like these where thinking outside the box is needed.
> 
> To me it seems obvious we need a better mask, something that is cheap and easy to make. You have to get hit with a certain minimal load of the virus for it to take hold. A mask is a simple way to minimize how much virus a person is exposed to.


It's reality.
Expecting everyone to be screened is not reality. 
Wash your hands, don't buy kisses at the county fair and keep your hands to yourself.


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## MoonRiver (Sep 2, 2007)

Here's what I'm talking about. I just can't believe it took this long for someone to do the obvious. For less than $100 per person, every American could wear a mask and stop the virus in a matter of a few weeks.


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## pjigar (Oct 18, 2018)

po boy said:


> It's reality.
> Expecting everyone to be screened is not reality.
> Wash your hands, don't buy kisses at the county fair and keep your hands to yourself.


+1. It's not a question of "being accepting" but rather of reality. There are not many options for a virus that travels through air with high infection rate and large contagious period. Thankfully this virus is not highly deadly so the easiest short term solution is to flatten the wave and ride it out. The longer term solution is to have a vaccine.


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## pjigar (Oct 18, 2018)

MoonRiver said:


> Here's what I'm talking about. I just can't believe it took this long for someone to do the obvious. For less than $100 per person, every American could wear a mask and stop the virus in a matter of a few weeks.


How many masks can we make in a day and how many months will it take to build factories to make masks like these? It's not that simple. We may be able to synthesize a vaccine faster than making masks. Devil is in the detail.


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## pjigar (Oct 18, 2018)

And by the way, there is very simple answer to your original question. "By not getting infected yourself." If everyone did this very simple thing then we will be virus free in 14 days flat!


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## MoonRiver (Sep 2, 2007)

pjigar said:


> How many masks can we make in a day and how many months will it take to build factories to make masks like these? It's not that simple. We may be able to synthesize a vaccine faster than making masks. Devil is in the detail.


If the president said make masks, we could be making millions/day within weeks. This should have been done 2 months ago. The question is why is government ignoring such an obvious solution?


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

Miss Kay said:


> I've been reading about the 1918 virus. We could learn a lot from that time. It seems the only thing that really works is to stay away from people until it finally dies out. Retired people can do that if we have enough supplies but lots of people still have to go to work. We have never seen anything like this in our lifetime but it has happened over and over throughout history and this seems to be our turn. Those who get it first and recover will be immune for a time, how long no one knows yet. But, they could be on the front lines working without a threat to being infected again which could help some.


Not sure a person will be immune after they get it. I thought I had read some getting it for second time.

You may think that the _one “positive”_ of testing positive for the COVID-19 causing coronavirus (SARS-CoV2) and surviving would be that you won’t get infected by that virus again. At least not during this pandemic. Ah, but is this assumption really true? Will you indeed be immune to the SARS-CoV2 after you’ve recovered from a COVID-19 infection? Some reports out of Japan and China seem to suggest otherwise.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/brucel...how-does-covid-19-immunity-work/#47cf3d115c0f​


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## MoonRiver (Sep 2, 2007)

HDRider said:


> Not sure a person will be immune after they get it. I thought I had read some getting it for second time.
> 
> You may think that the _one “positive”_ of testing positive for the COVID-19 causing coronavirus (SARS-CoV2) and surviving would be that you won’t get infected by that virus again. At least not during this pandemic. Ah, but is this assumption really true? Will you indeed be immune to the SARS-CoV2 after you’ve recovered from a COVID-19 infection? Some reports out of Japan and China seem to suggest otherwise.
> 
> https://www.forbes.com/sites/brucel...how-does-covid-19-immunity-work/#47cf3d115c0f​


Highly unlikely someone gets it twice. One possibility is that because there are 2 strains, someone might get 1 strain, recover, and then get the other strain. More likely, tests are able to identify virus still in the body after a person has recovered.


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## Wolf mom (Mar 8, 2005)

MoonRiver said:


> Highly unlikely someone gets it twice. One possibility is that because there are 2 strains, someone might get 1 strain, recover, and then get the other strain. *More likely, tests are able to identify virus still in the body after a person has recovered.*


Does that mean the they have become a carrier and can infect others?


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

MoonRiver said:


> Highly unlikely someone gets it twice. One possibility is that because there are 2 strains, someone might get 1 strain, recover, and then get the other strain. More likely, tests are able to identify virus still in the body after a person has recovered.


I know you have studied this as much or more than any layman. Do you have a link to back up your post? It seem very inconclusive on what I read.


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## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

I've read this theory: the virus can lay dormant, much like the chicken pox (varicella zoster virus) and shingles (herpes zoster) does. It can then become active again at a later time due to some type of trigger.


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

Irish Pixie said:


> I've read this theory: the virus can lay dormant, much like the chicken pox (varicella zoster virus) and shingles (herpes zoster) does. It can then become active again at a later time due to some type of trigger.


Do you know how does that compares to other covids?


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## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

HDRider said:


> Do you know how does that compares to other covids?


No. ETA: Oops, didn't finish my post. I've never researched the other covids or SAR.


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## MoonRiver (Sep 2, 2007)

Wolf mom said:


> Does that mean the they have become a carrier and can infect others?


No. The virus load would be too small at that point.


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## MoonRiver (Sep 2, 2007)

HDRider said:


> I know you have studied this as much or more than any layman. Do you have a link to back up your post? It seem very inconclusive on what I read.


All I can tell you is both are things I have either read or heard in a video.


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## MoonRiver (Sep 2, 2007)

I thought of another strategy we could use. Modeled on something like the Peace Corp.

Ask for healthy volunteers in their 20's and 30's to be exposed to the virus. House, feed, provide health services, and train them to perform a job that will likely have exposure to the virus. For those who get the virus, after they are fully recovered, they become valuable resources. It might be as simple as working in a grocery store or providing assistance to elderly or working in health care facilities.


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

MoonRiver said:


> I thought of another strategy we could use. Modeled on something like the Peace Corp.
> 
> Ask for healthy volunteers in their 20's and 30's to be exposed to the virus. House, feed, provide health services, and train them to perform a job that will likely have exposure to the virus. For those who get the virus, after they are fully recovered, they become valuable resources. It might be as simple as working in a grocery store or providing assistance to elderly or working in health care facilities.


I don't expect too many volunteers


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## unohu (Mar 10, 2020)

Anytime the cold and flu season comes around, I make a conscious effort to eat more healthy, stay rested and take a little extra vitamin C. Among all the daily news bulletins and expert advice, has anyone heard that recommendation as often as all the other ones?


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## MoonRiver (Sep 2, 2007)

HDRider said:


> I don't expect too many volunteers


Coed setting, free beer!


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## MoonRiver (Sep 2, 2007)

unohu said:


> Anytime the cold and flu season comes around, I make a conscious effort to eat more healthy, stay rested and take a little extra vitamin C. Among all the daily news bulletins and expert advice, has anyone heard that recommendation as often as all the other ones?


Sleep is probably number 1. Vitamin C and Vitamin D can't hurt. Lots of fresh air and lots of sun are good.

Zinc is mentioned on several sites, but the problem is zinc needs to be absorbed into the cells. Quercetin is supposed to help cells absorb zinc and is being tried as a treatment. I haven't seen a good description of how much quercetin and how much zinc one should take after symptoms occur. I don't think it is preventative, but therapeutic.

High dose vitamin c is being tried, I think in China or possibly S Korea.

Let me throw one other observation in. There are reports that taking NSAIDS to reduce fever may actually make the disease worse. That the best thing is to let the fever run it's course.


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## unohu (Mar 10, 2020)

MoonRiver said:


> Sleep is probably number 1. Vitamin C and Vitamin D can't hurt. Lots of fresh air and lots of sun are good.
> 
> Zinc is mentioned on several sites, but the problem is zinc needs to be absorbed into the cells. Quercetin is supposed to help cells absorb zinc and is being tried as a treatment. I haven't seen a good description of how much quercetin and how much zinc one should take after symptoms occur. I don't think it is preventative, but therapeutic.
> 
> ...


It's a balancing act with the fever. The body will fight it naturally if you help it along. As long as it doesn't go over 105 or so it will kill the virus and not kill your vital organs depending on how healthy you are. The very young and very old can't take much of that kind of fever which is why they need extra attention, but for most of us it's the natural way our body combats any infection or disease.


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

MoonRiver said:


> Coed setting, free beer!


OK, maybe a few


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## keenataz (Feb 17, 2009)

unohu said:


> Anytime the cold and flu season comes around, I make a conscious effort to eat more healthy, stay rested and take a little extra vitamin C. Among all the daily news bulletins and expert advice, has anyone heard that recommendation as often as all the other ones?



You do realize that extra vitamin c ends up in your toilrt bowl, right?


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## keenataz (Feb 17, 2009)

MoonRiver said:


> Sleep is probably number 1. Vitamin C and Vitamin D can't hurt. Lots of fresh air and lots of sun are good.
> 
> Zinc is mentioned on several sites, but the problem is zinc needs to be absorbed into the cells. Quercetin is supposed to help cells absorb zinc and is being tried as a treatment. I haven't seen a good description of how much quercetin and how much zinc one should take after symptoms occur. I don't think it is preventative, but therapeutic.
> 
> ...


I have heard that about ibuprofen. And of course what to I have in my nedicine chest..


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## unohu (Mar 10, 2020)

keenataz said:


> You do realize that extra vitamin c ends up in your toilrt bowl, right?


Yes. That's why a little extra won't hurt a thing and we all learned a long time ago that it helps keep the doctor away. 
That's also where all those cases of toilet paper are going to end up too, but I doubt it'll have any effect on the viral transmission rate. 
If you tested everyone today, how many are under the recommended daily requirement?

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1448351/


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## Farmerga (May 6, 2010)

MoonRiver said:


> I'm asking how we can stop it.


Stop it? Time will stop it. The key is to keep you and your loved ones from getting it while we wait. Avoid contact with others as much as possible and keep your hands clean are the most effective way to avoid getting it. I know it seems like you should do more, but, really, there isn't much more that you can do.


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## Farmerga (May 6, 2010)

MoonRiver said:


> Here's what I'm talking about. I just can't believe it took this long for someone to do the obvious. For less than $100 per person, every American could wear a mask and stop the virus in a matter of a few weeks.


Assuming that we could quickly get 330 million masks, it would cost almost 33 billion dollars. Not even taking into account that these masks tend to be rather difficult to breath in and for the most susceptible, it would be almost impossible.


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## MoonRiver (Sep 2, 2007)

Farmerga said:


> Assuming that we could quickly get 330 million masks, it would cost almost 33 billion dollars. Not even taking into account that these masks tend to be rather difficult to breath in and for the most susceptible, it would be almost impossible.


33 billion is a steal compared to what they will spend, plus loss of GDP.


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## MoonRiver (Sep 2, 2007)

Farmerga said:


> Stop it? Time will stop it. The key is to keep you and your loved ones from getting it while we wait. Avoid contact with others as much as possible and keep your hands clean are the most effective way to avoid getting it. I know it seems like you should do more, but, really, there isn't much more that you can do.


That's not thinking, that is quoting the government recommendations.


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## Farmerga (May 6, 2010)

MoonRiver said:


> That's not thinking, that is quoting the government recommendations.


That is simply what is possible and effective for the individual to do.


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## Farmerga (May 6, 2010)

MoonRiver said:


> 33 billion is a steal compared to what they will spend, plus loss of GDP.


Still doens't account for the vast numbers of people who wouldn't wear them and the monumental task it would be and time it would take to increase production to that scale. Time will kill this virus long before that solution could be brought online.


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## HermitJohn (May 10, 2002)




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## MoonRiver (Sep 2, 2007)

Farmerga said:


> Still doens't account for the vast numbers of people who wouldn't wear them and the monumental task it would be and time it would take to increase production to that scale. Time will kill this virus long before that solution could be brought online.


It could be used for the next virus and the one after that. If the fine was steep enough, people would wear them. And it would only be for a relatively short period of time. No stock market loss, no empty airplanes, no restaurants shut down, no stockpiling toilet paper, no government boondoggles, no school closings, etc.


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## Farmerga (May 6, 2010)

MoonRiver said:


> It could be used for the next virus and the one after that. If the fine was steep enough, people would wear them. And it would only be for a relatively short period of time. No stock market loss, no empty airplanes, no restaurants shut down, no stockpiling toilet paper, no government boondoggles, no school closings, etc.


You gonna get teenagers to use them? How about kindergartners? Grumpy old men?


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## unohu (Mar 10, 2020)

Farmerga said:


> You gonna get teenagers to use them? How about kindergartners? Grumpy old men?


Grumpy old men with beards and won't pay a fine if you try and beat them?
I guess they haven't learned much about fining people who won't buy a healthcare product even if they pass a law mandating it. Some people never learn.
BTW, I just ate a piece of lemon pie and got my vitamin C for the day.
Think I'll check the ingredient label on that beer in the fridge and see what other nutrition I can take to help get me through today.


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## MichaelZ (May 21, 2013)

See https://www.washingtonpost.com/grap...F9KFAw1qFVPdFRXsld56MlffoasBKl69xsYSwiJ8uyxgY

This simulator shows how social distancing works.


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## MoonRiver (Sep 2, 2007)

Farmerga said:


> You gonna get teenagers to use them? How about kindergartners? Grumpy old men?


Sure, if they want to venture away from home. Maybe make Walking Dead masks for teenagers. If a grumpy old man knew it would cost him $500 if caught without it on, they would most likely comply. There are ways to make it work. Maybe school would be closed for some period of time if wearing masks are a problem.

I can't imagine people would prefer the present circumstances over wearing a mask for 2 - 4 weeks.


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## unohu (Mar 10, 2020)

I can't imagine being so willing to give up every freedom and principle this country was founded on because somebody was skeered. Glad this grumpy old man isn't one of them.
Land of Free, Home of the Brave?


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

MoonRiver said:


> It's times like these where thinking outside the box is needed.


Thinking *rationally* is what is needed.



MoonRiver said:


> For less than $100 per person, every American could wear a mask and stop the virus in a matter of a few weeks.


You've seen multiple sources stating the wearing of masks by the general public is ineffective and may even create more risk of infection.


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

Miss Kay said:


> Retired people can do that if we have enough supplies but lots of people still have to go to work.


No, they really don't "have to".
If it's required there could be a total shutdown and quarantine for a couple of weeks.
Don't be surprised if that happens this week.
Be prepared for it.


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## MoonRiver (Sep 2, 2007)

Bearfootfarm said:


> Thinking *rationally* is what is needed.
> You've seen multiple sources stating the wearing of masks by the general public is ineffective and may even create more risk of infection.


How many times do I have to prove you wrong about masks before you give it up?

Wearing a mask decreases the virus load a person is exposed to. The lower the virus load, the better chance your immune system can fight it off.

The mask the doctor in Israel developed makes a complete seal of mouth, nose, and eyes.


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

MoonRiver said:


> I can't imagine people would prefer the present circumstances over wearing a mask for 2 - 4 weeks.


It's much easier to simply stay at home and avoid contact for a while.
It costs nothing.


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

MoonRiver said:


> How many times do I have to prove you wrong about masks before you give it up?


You've never shown any evidence that your theory is correct.
Masks are most effective when worn by those already infected.

https://www.gilmorehealth.com/are-masks-effective-in-the-fight-against-the-coronavirus-epidemic/


> Still, these masks can have a role in stopping the spread of this virus, if used by those who are already infected in order to not infect those around them.


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## gilberte (Sep 25, 2004)

Is that really viable BFF? Do you have little grandchildren wanting to come spend time at BFF after going to school? Gonna tell them no


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

gilberte said:


> *Is that really viable BFF?* Do you have little grandchildren wanting to come spend time at BFF after going to school? Gonna tell them no


Of course it's "viable".
Some things are medically necessary.


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## gilberte (Sep 25, 2004)

Can you answer the rest of the question please? It's not a SHDD, BTDT, thing is it?


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## keenataz (Feb 17, 2009)

unohu said:


> Yes. That's why a little extra won't hurt a thing and we all learned a long time ago that it helps keep the doctor away.
> That's also where all those cases of toilet paper are going to end up too, but I doubt it'll have any effect on the viral transmission rate.
> If you tested everyone today, how many are under the recommended daily requirement?
> 
> https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1448351/


That is a good point, I eat 3 -4 ornages/apples/grapefruit a day. So I am reasonably sure I get my needed vitamin c.


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## IlliniosGal (Jun 3, 2019)

gilberte said:


> Is that really viable BFF? Do you have little grandchildren wanting to come spend time at BFF after going to school? Gonna tell them no


While I am not BFF, I am one person who is completely capable of being alone on my farm for a month at least. I am also capable of saying NO if friends or kids want to come over and that is what I am doing, saying No, I am a grown up and that is my right.


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## gilberte (Sep 25, 2004)

Yep, ain't arguing that. Fighting with the same situation here. I say let's wait, wife says she won't. We both love the grandkids to death and would lay down in front of a truck for them. Just wondering about other perspectives.


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## unohu (Mar 10, 2020)

gilberte said:


> Is that really viable BFF? Do you have little grandchildren wanting to come spend time at BFF after going to school?


It depends on grandma and grandpa. I remember I had 3 cool ones and one that was mean and it didn't bother me not to visit that one. Years later I heard she'd had electroshock treatment and was mentally ill. It explained a lot and made me feel sorry for her, even if she was miserable to be around.


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

gilberte said:


> Can you answer the rest of the question please?


I already answered.


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## MoonRiver (Sep 2, 2007)

Farmerga said:


> Assuming that we could quickly get 330 million masks, it would cost almost 33 billion dollars. Not even taking into account that these masks tend to be rather difficult to breath in and for the most susceptible, it would be almost impossible.


*Schumer Proposes $750 Billion to Combat Coronavirus*
https://thehill.com/homenews/senate...50-billion-to-combat-coronavirus?userid=57999

Makes 33 billion sound like a bargain, doesn't it?


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## wr (Aug 10, 2003)

MoonRiver said:


> Here's what I'm talking about. I just can't believe it took this long for someone to do the obvious. For less than $100 per person, every American could wear a mask and stop the virus in a matter of a few weeks.


It sounds promising but how quickly would they have them mass produced to protect that many people?

From what I've read, they are a startup company and I feel it's impressive that they have 120,000 units but the population of Isreal is well over 8 million.


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## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

gilberte said:


> Yep, ain't arguing that. Fighting with the same situation here. I say let's wait, wife says she won't. We both love the grandkids to death and would lay down in front of a truck for them. Just wondering about other perspectives.


Our oldest daughter, son in law, and the grands will be here, and we'll be over there to help. It's what our family does. I was at their house to watch the grands this morning.


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## SLADE (Feb 20, 2004)

No matter at what age my children or grand children need me, I'm here. they were my drive in life as children and I still want to be useful in any way I can. Without them I was a lost soul.


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## MoonRiver (Sep 2, 2007)

Bearfootfarm said:


> You've never shown any evidence that your theory is correct.
> Masks are most effective when worn by those already infected.


I never said most effective. I'm saying wearing an N95 mask may prevent a person from getting the coronavirus.

“*Face masks can help protect against many respiratory infections that are spread through the droplet route, and that includes coronavirus* and the flu,” says infectious disease expert Amesh A. Adalja, M.D., senior scholar at the Johns Hopkins Center for Health Security. prevention
*
What is an N95 filtering facepiece respirator (FFR)?*
An N95 FFR is a type of respirator which removes particles from the air that are breathed through it. T*hese respirators filter out at least 95% of very small (0.3 micron) particles. N95 FFRs are capable of filtering out all types of particles, including bacteria and viruses. *CDC

"It would appear that* N95 respirators*, no surprise, *protect against* health care acquisition of *the virus*," said Dr. William Schaffner, an infectious-diseases specialist at Vanderbilt University in Tennessee, who was not involved in the current study. The small study is "reassuring in that sense," although there was *no reason to think that N95 respirators wouldn't block out the novel coronavirus effectively,* he added. livescience

In an interview with France24, Joseph Kwan, professor at Hong Kong University of Science and Technology says that *in crowded areas that have been exposed to the disease, such as Hong Kong, using a mask is crucial to stop the virus from spreading “like wildfire”*. According to Kwan, *when the disease is spreading the community, not wearing face masks is a “health disaster.*” zmescience


----------



## Redlands Okie (Nov 28, 2017)

Full face mask have been available for years. Still available. Many in the construction and maintenance trades wear them. Most have interchangeable filters. Just got to use the right one. Got a couple we have been using for years for those occasional specialty paint jobs and for when having to be around gas powered equipment indoors.


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## MoonRiver (Sep 2, 2007)

wr said:


> It sounds promising but how quickly would they have them mass produced to protect that many people?
> 
> From what I've read, they are a startup company and I feel it's impressive that they have 120,000 units but the population of Isreal is well over 8 million.


The US government is on track to spend well over $1 trillion on the coronavirus, plus loss in GDP. To get a factory or multiple factories up and producing the mask would not cost anything close to that. 

I was thinking today, the city where I live was the home of Dan River Mills, one of the largest textile manufacturers in US. Some of the mills are still sitting here empty. I don't know what it would take to put them back in service, but there are mills like this all over the southern US where people would love the opportunity to make masks.


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## wr (Aug 10, 2003)

MoonRiver said:


> The US government is on track to spend well over $1 trillion on the coronavirus, plus loss in GDP. To get a factory or multiple factories up and producing the mask would not cost anything close to that.
> 
> I was thinking today, the city where I live was the home of Dan River Mills, one of the largest textile manufacturers in US. Some of the mills are still sitting here empty. I don't know what it would take to put them back in service, but there are mills like this all over the southern US where people would love the opportunity to make masks.


How much of the equipment needed to produce these would be specialized and if the US starts producing are you proposing the US buy the patent, make the company a sweet deal or just push them out of the way? If they prove effective, I would suspect that Isreal is going to invest in their venture. 

I'm not saying it can't be done but I am saying, I think that it may take a while to sort out patent issues, get a facility up to speed, start manufacturing and have them available for the public would take about the same amount of time as approving a vaccination.


----------



## no really (Aug 7, 2013)

According to the article the mask won't be ready till mid April. I'm sure they will sell them and the extra filters (which are good for eight hours). There has to be instruction in decontaminating and cleaning of the mask, also proper fit. Right now from what I read it is a prototype.


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## MoonRiver (Sep 2, 2007)

wr said:


> How much of the equipment needed to produce these would be specialized and if the US starts producing are you proposing the US buy the patent, make the company a sweet deal or just push them out of the way? If they prove effective, I would suspect that Isreal is going to invest in their venture.
> 
> I'm not saying it can't be done but I am saying, I think that it may take a while to sort out patent issues, get a facility up to speed, start manufacturing and have them available for the public would take about the same amount of time as approving a vaccination.


We are still at least a year from having a vaccine. There maybe hot spots popping up for quite a while. And who knows how long it will be before another virus comes out of China?

I would guess the guy in Israel is looking for companies to license the manufacture of his masks. I also don't see any reason people couldn't come up with new designs with new patents.


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## wr (Aug 10, 2003)

MoonRiver said:


> We are still at least a year from having a vaccine. There maybe hot spots popping up for quite a while. And who knows how long it will be before another virus comes out of China?
> 
> I would guess the guy in Israel is looking for companies to license the manufacture of his masks. I also don't see any reason people couldn't come up with new designs with new patents.


There is no reason that somebody couldn't come up with a new patent but like anything else, it would have to be developed, proven and then manufactured. 

I'm not saying it's not a good future option, I'm simply saying that it's not a solution that is going to resolve the problem we have now. 

I'm actually surprised that after the problems containing SARS, that someone hasn't worked on something like this already. 

My only concern would be filters and if people are hoarding toilet paper, I fear there would be the same people hoarding filters.


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## unohu (Mar 10, 2020)

At 4pm they said the first vaccine trial injection was given today. It may still take awhile but they can fast track it if they want to.
We heard about this new virus only 3 months ago yet they have test kits and a vaccine on the way. That's miraculous.
Or this was already planned a long time ago. Tough choice to make isn't it?
If you're not sure about that, try getting a pothole filled on your street and see how long THAT takes.


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

MoonRiver said:


> I'm saying wearing an N95 mask may prevent a person from getting the coronavirus.


None of that refutes all the other sources that say wearing of masks by the general public isn't necessarily going to help.


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## MoonRiver (Sep 2, 2007)

Bearfootfarm said:


> None of that refutes all the other sources that say wearing of masks by the general public isn't necessarily going to help.


Every time you comment, you add a different qualifier.


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

MoonRiver said:


> Every time you comment, you add a different qualifier.


No I really haven't.
You only see what you want to see.


----------



## melli (May 7, 2016)

Masks might be good for those infected, to stop them from spreading the virus via the airborne route, but we have to stop touching our face, and wash those hands regularly. 
That Israeli mask looks like a muzzle...lol
Ruff ruff...bad dog! 

The proof is in the pudding. South Korea is testing like crazy, to isolate and contain the flare ups. They seem to be turning the tide. Without data, everybody is guessing. Isolation (albeit, forced), like what China imposed 'seems' to be working. 
Should be looking at what works. Pretend your a surgeon, every day, and everything you do is prep for surgery. We do this for a few weeks, and the curve will flatten, then more folks get tested, and we can get on the right side of this...
We just need time to come up with a vaccine, and long term viable options.


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## Shrek (May 1, 2002)

MoonRiver said:


> Coed setting, free beer!


You just put that picture of Arnold Horshack on Welcome Back Kotter raising his hand going "oooh ooh pick me !" in my mind.

thousands of people better versed than any of us on the possibilities of success are changing their perspectives daily if not more frequently during the day.

All I know now is the group limits announced here a week ago was 500 then a few days later 250, then 50 and on the 4 o'clock news it was down to 10.

GF and I were discussing the 6 foot safe space as we were sitting at the long end places across my small rectangular table in my 12 by 15 foot small old style farmhouse kitchen and she pointed out that it was only about 1/2 feet long and with her still having to report to work on the plant campus, if she is a shed carrier, just sitting at my table eating dinner negates any isolation aspect on my part and I agreed.


There is no way either of us will stay 6 feet away from each other, so we are both sticking to our usual vitamins and when she goes to her work campus she takes the booster vitamin air travelers use until some of those thousands of better versed on the issue folks offer a better defense or her employer figures out how to change her job MOS so she can work from home or builds her a test lab annex in her or my backyard staffed by 30 robots instead of 30 humans.


*Edited by Shrek to correct a typographical error. I hate it when I leave out a word and se it during board reads


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## Farmerga (May 6, 2010)

MoonRiver said:


> *Schumer Proposes $750 Billion to Combat Coronavirus*
> https://thehill.com/homenews/senate...50-billion-to-combat-coronavirus?userid=57999
> 
> Makes 33 billion sound like a bargain, doesn't it?


That 33 billion would be thrown down a dark hole, buying masks and expecting people to wear them for several weeks. The same is likely true for much of Schumer proposals. Much of it is likely just items from the Democrat wish list and has nothing to do with the situation at hand.


----------



## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

Shrek said:


> I hate it when I leave out a word and *se *it during board reads


Me too


----------



## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

From the link: "We will need big, bold, urgent federal action to deal with this crisis. The kinds of targeted measures we are putting together will mainline money into the economy and directly into the hands of families that need it most," Schumer said in a statement.

"Importantly, this proposal will also ensure our medical professionals have all the resources – including physical space and equipment – they need to provide treatment and keep Americans safe, among other people-focused initiatives," he added. 

Schumer's proposal would put money "directly into hands of American people," as well as include funding for a laundry list of issues including bolstering hospital capacity, providing help for small businesses and delaying payments on federal loans."

Families/American people rather than Wall Street this time around, it's a good thing isn't it?


----------



## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

Irish Pixie said:


> Families/American people rather than Wall Street this time around, it's a good thing isn't it?


Sounds pretty political to me.
I heard they also tried to slip in some abortion funding too.


----------



## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

Bearfootfarm said:


> Sounds pretty political to me.
> I heard they also tried to slip in some abortion funding too.


Same old, same old.


----------



## Farmerga (May 6, 2010)

MoonRiver said:


> Sure, if they want to venture away from home. Maybe make Walking Dead masks for teenagers. If a grumpy old man knew it would cost him $500 if caught without it on, they would most likely comply. There are ways to make it work. Maybe school would be closed for some period of time if wearing masks are a problem.
> 
> I can't imagine people would prefer the present circumstances over wearing a mask for 2 - 4 weeks.


How long does it take the filters in those masks to load? Will they last 4 weeks (minimum) to be effective in quelling an outbreak, or, would we have to have several? I know down here, this time of year, they would be clogged with pollen in an hour or so.


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## SLADE (Feb 20, 2004)

Anyone that doesn't want to wear a mask should breath deeply and ignore those that do.


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## MoonRiver (Sep 2, 2007)

Now I understand how the CDC has been able to seemingly lie to the American people about the effectiveness of N95 respirator masks. Word games!



> *Respirators (N–95 and N–100; both commercially available) are masks designed to shield the wearer from inhalational hazards,* as opposed to _surgical masks, which are designed to protect others from contaminants generated by the wearer_. In the discussion that follows, use of the word mask refers only to the former …


https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1854994/

When CDC, WHO, etc use the term mask, they are referring to surgical masks, which are designed to protect others from contaminants, not the wearer of the mask. Everything they have said about "masks" is true if it is limited to surgical masks.

They are not referring to N95 masks which DO protect the wearer from inhalation hazards.


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## Evons hubby (Oct 3, 2005)

pjigar said:


> How many masks can we make in a day and how many months will it take to build factories to make masks like these? It's not that simple. We may be able to synthesize a vaccine faster than making masks. Devil is in the detail.


Wearing a mask does very little good when it comes to protecting from this virus. They do help to keep those infected from spreading it. The best way as of today is to protect yourself is stay away from everyone as much as possible. Presume everyone has it and are contagious.


----------



## MoonRiver (Sep 2, 2007)

Farmerga said:


> That 33 billion would be thrown down a dark hole, buying masks and expecting people to wear them for several weeks. The same is likely true for much of Schumer proposals. Much of it is likely just items from the Democrat wish list and has nothing to do with the situation at hand.


 People in Asian countries wear them. If the trade off was wearing a mask or stay locked in your house, I bet most would choose mask.


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## MoonRiver (Sep 2, 2007)

Yvonne's hubby said:


> Wearing a mask does very little good when it comes to protecting from this virus. They do help to keep those infected from spreading it. The best way as of today is to protect yourself is stay away from everyone as much as possible. Presume everyone has it and are contagious.


I have proven that to not be true so many times it is getting ridiculous. An N95 mask does protect the wearer from the virus if it is sealed properly.

Put the mask on, take a big wiff of garlic. if you smell garlic, the mask is not sealed properly. Reseal mask until you can't smell garlic through the respirator.


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## SLADE (Feb 20, 2004)

Word games and number games.


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## Evons hubby (Oct 3, 2005)

MoonRiver said:


> I have proven that to not be true so many times it is getting ridiculous. An N95 mask does protect the wearer from the virus if it is sealed properly.


I suppose you also have proof that inhalation is the only way one can contract this virus?


----------



## GTX63 (Dec 13, 2016)

Farmerga said:


> That 33 billion would be thrown down a dark hole, buying masks and expecting people to wear them for several weeks. The same is likely true for much of Schumer proposals. Much of it is likely just items from the Democrat wish list and has nothing to do with the situation at hand.


It is a dark hole and bottomless but it isn't empty. It is littered with wheelbarrows and pig carcasses.
Makes you wonder if the processes for determining the amount of money needed are little more than spittle and numbers randomly shouted across a conference table and thru table top speakers from staffers.


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## MoonRiver (Sep 2, 2007)

Yvonne's hubby said:


> I suppose you also have proof that inhalation is the only way one can contract this virus?


Proper protection is eye, nose, and mouth covered and wearing protective gloves.


----------



## GTX63 (Dec 13, 2016)

Bearfootfarm said:


> Sounds pretty political to me.
> I heard they also tried to slip in some abortion funding too.


Of course it is. When you cannot legislate nutball policy thru a political or even a public majority, then do so thru crisis and fear.


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## GTX63 (Dec 13, 2016)

Yvonne's hubby said:


> Wearing a mask does very little good when it comes to protecting from this virus. They do help to keep those infected from spreading it. The best way as of today is to protect yourself is stay away from everyone as much as possible. Presume everyone has it and are contagious.


That very simple and important point is getting lost in all of the noise.


----------



## Farmerga (May 6, 2010)

MoonRiver said:


> People in Asian countries wear them. If the trade off was wearing a mask or stay locked in your house, I bet most would choose mask.


I have seen Asian people wearing surgical masks, not N-95 masks. Surgical masks are designed to protect others from an infected person, not the wearer from getting infected. How are we going to train the vast number of stupid people to wear a mask, that must be sealed to be effective, properly? We gonna mandate shaving facial hair? The various state and local governments (and I assume that the Feds won't be far behind) are already violating the Constitution. I am not interested in allowing them further violations.


----------



## Evons hubby (Oct 3, 2005)

MoonRiver said:


> Proper protection is eye, nose, and mouth covered and wearing protective gloves.


Right. Keeping a couple hundred yards distance helps too.


----------



## Evons hubby (Oct 3, 2005)

GTX63 said:


> That very simple and important point is getting lost in all of the noise.


That happens when people panic, common sense is the first casualty.


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

unohu said:


> At 4pm they said the first vaccine trial injection was given today. It may still take awhile but they can fast track it if they want to.
> We heard about this new virus only 3 months ago yet they have test kits and a vaccine on the way. That's miraculous.
> Or this was *already planned a long time ago.* *Tough choice to make isn't it*?
> If you're not sure about that, try getting a pothole filled on your street and see how long THAT takes.


I do not accept the premise that the virus and the vaccine were created and manufactured in tandem to create a panic like we are now in the midst of.

It is not a tough choice for me.


----------



## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

Irish Pixie said:


> From the link: "We will need big, bold, urgent federal action to deal with this crisis. The kinds of targeted measures we are putting together will mainline money into the economy and directly into the hands of families that need it most," Schumer said in a statement.
> 
> "Importantly, this proposal will also ensure our medical professionals have all the resources – including physical space and equipment – they need to provide treatment and keep Americans safe, among other people-focused initiatives," he added.
> 
> ...


I disagree. The states and local municipalities should be at the forefront of serving their community.


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## Alice In TX/MO (May 10, 2002)

This addresses much of your concern.

https://peterattiamd.com/covid-19-update-03152020/


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## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

HDRider said:


> I disagree. The states and local municipalities should be at the forefront of serving their community.


New York *is* on the forefront, the feds should be involved as well. Especially for the poor states.


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## unohu (Mar 10, 2020)

HDRider said:


> I do not accept the premise that the virus and the vaccine were created and manufactured in tandem to create a panic like we are now in the midst of.
> 
> It is not a tough choice for me.


I think you're in the majority too. It doesn't necessarily mean I think you're right. Can you tell me ANY other example in the world that had the same circumstances? (A new disease, low # of deaths, a 3 month roll out of a test and vaccine and global quarantines and shutdowns) You can find 2 or 3 of those, but the 3 month test/vaccine part is the kicker. 
It is what also gives you the clue as to what is really going on here. This isn't a deadly pandemic, it's 100 times LESS than the flu. This is about 1 thing only. - How can we get a free population to accept rigorous control without firing a shot?
It's working beautifully.


----------



## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

unohu said:


> I think you're in the majority too. It doesn't necessarily mean I think you're right. Can you tell me ANY other example in the world that had the same circumstances? (A new disease, low # of deaths, a 3 month roll out of a test and vaccine and global quarantines and shutdowns) You can find 2 or 3 of those, but the 3 month test/vaccine part is the kicker.
> It is what also gives you the clue as to what is really going on here. This isn't a deadly pandemic, it's 100 times LESS than the flu. This is about 1 thing only. - How can we get a free population to accept rigorous control without firing a shot?
> It's working beautifully.


It will fade as a memory in 5 years, maybe 2


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## Alice In TX/MO (May 10, 2002)

This podcast explains quite a bit. 

https://peterattiamd.com/covid-19-update-03152020/


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## GTX63 (Dec 13, 2016)

Farmerga said:


> Surgical masks are designed to protect others from an infected person, not the wearer from getting infected. How are we going to train the vast number of stupid people to wear a mask, that must be sealed to be effective, properly? We gonna mandate shaving facial hair? The various state and local governments (and I assume that the Feds won't be far behind) are already violating the Constitution. I am not interested in allowing them further violations.


No matter how much you repeat it, there are some that will ignore basic, good information and continue on for what they think is better.
The constitution appears to be replacing the sold out toilet paper. The next few days and weeks will continue to confirm that.


----------



## unohu (Mar 10, 2020)

HDRider said:


> It will fade as a memory in 5 years, maybe 2


It won't even be a memory. By the time people realize what they did to themselves it'll be too late.
BTW, as a close example to a real deadly, infectious pandemic as opposed to a fake one, let's look at Ebola.
You do remember that one? Notice the date of this vaccine.
https://www.fda.gov/news-events/pre...ease-marking-critical-milestone-public-health


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## wdcutrsdaughter (Dec 9, 2012)

HDRider said:


> It will fade as a memory in 5 years, maybe 2


Or it will become a new normal.
A new way of life.
illness, fear, shortages 


Immunity is about harmony and since the global state was already a disharmony it makes clear sense that it this disharmony has manifested as a pandemic. 

the only way out is through


----------



## keenataz (Feb 17, 2009)

unohu said:


> I think you're in the majority too. It doesn't necessarily mean I think you're right. Can you tell me ANY other example in the world that had the same circumstances? (A new disease, low # of deaths, a 3 month roll out of a test and vaccine and global quarantines and shutdowns) You can find 2 or 3 of those, but the 3 month test/vaccine part is the kicker.
> It is what also gives you the clue as to what is really going on here. This isn't a deadly pandemic, it's 100 times LESS than the flu. This is about 1 thing only. - How can we get a free population to accept rigorous control without firing a shot?
> It's working beautifully.


South Korea, Singapore


unohu said:


> I'm going to help the local economy today in recovery. After the normal day I had planned a month ago, I'll go out to a local bar and celebrate St. Patrick's Day and have a Corona beer! Maybe a few normal people will be left to celebrate with me. The rest can stay home hiding under their beds.



Man I can't say what I want. So you are making extremely bad choices. I do not give a crap what happens to you, but I do for the people you could be spreading it to.

Enjoy your beer


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## SLADE (Feb 20, 2004)

This would help main street. The wall street journal
*Giving Americans Money to Offset Coronavirus Impact Gains Bipartisan Support in Congress*
*Lawmakers in both parties say the government should send funds to households to cushion economic pain*


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## newfieannie (Dec 24, 2006)

bars and restaurants (seating) closed here. 25000 dollars a day fine. no st pats day celebration put off for 2 weeks(to start)


----------



## Alice In TX/MO (May 10, 2002)

Is it LEGAL for a government to select one type of business and tell them to close without instituting martial law?


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## SLADE (Feb 20, 2004)

If it's a question of public safety. I would say yes.


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## Alice In TX/MO (May 10, 2002)

Yes, I understand, but I believe there is a protocol.

I am asking for the legal answer because some bar owners are planning to fight it.

https://www.yahoo.com/entertainment/coronavirus-kid-rock-nashville-bar-remain-open-215225753.html


----------



## Lisa in WA (Oct 11, 2004)

I am also curious about Indian casinos, since the tribes are sovereign nations.
The big one here in Spokane was holding out it seemed but announced it was closing yesterday.
It was getting a lot of heat from the public on social media.
I was wondering if the governor can cut road access to them if they refuse to comply.
This one is not on a reservation.


ETA: almost lawyer daughter says yes, governors have executive powers to shut down public access.


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

Irish Pixie said:


> New York *is* on the forefront


They like to think they are.



Alice In TX/MO said:


> Is it LEGAL for a government to select one type of business and tell them to close without instituting martial law?


Yes.
It's covered under "state of emergency" statutes.


----------



## CKelly78z (Jul 16, 2017)

In Ohio, all of our schools, bars, restaurants, gyms, YMCAs, Libraries, casinos, concerts, festivals, sporting events (whether high school, college, or pro), and any gathering of more than 50 is banned.

How is it, that we are still working in factories (with daily shift meetings), business as usual, while the kids are at home unsupervised ?


----------



## Lisa in WA (Oct 11, 2004)

My daughters friend is pregnant and her due date is in two weeks.
Her doctor warned her at her apt this morning that although right now husbands are allowed in labor and delivery, things are changing rapidly and there is a very good chance no one will be allowed in L&D in two weeks.


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## Alice In TX/MO (May 10, 2002)

Ok. Following this chain of thought....

A GOVERNOR can close bars and restaurants, but can a mayor? County judge?


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## SLADE (Feb 20, 2004)

For public safety. YES


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## Alice In TX/MO (May 10, 2002)

Source?


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

Alice In TX/MO said:


> Source?


https://thedispatch.com/p/the-polic...N0z9Nt1JHRkndXVLyTK7HCy3nKCC-9E1BaXzdkupG6zEA



> The Police Power of the States to Control a Pandemic, Explained


----------



## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

Alice In TX/MO said:


> but can a mayor? County judge?


Most any "authority" can declare a "state of emergency" in their own jurisdiction.

I'm not sure about a judge though.

Find your state statutes that define "state of emergency" or "emergency powers".

In some cases it's as simple as posting a notice in a public place.


----------



## Alice In TX/MO (May 10, 2002)

Excellent article. Thank you. I was working in the garden and had no time to search.


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

Alice In TX/MO said:


> Excellent article. Thank you


I just saw it this morning and remembered you had asked about it.
One of my friends had posted it on Facebook.

I researched a lot of this stuff in the 80's and 90's looking at gun laws.
I even had a book with all the NC statutes.
It's much easier to find that sort of thing now.


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## Lisa in WA (Oct 11, 2004)

Alice In TX/MO said:


> Yes, I understand, but I believe there is a protocol.
> 
> I am asking for the legal answer because some bar owners are planning to fight it.
> 
> https://www.yahoo.com/entertainment/coronavirus-kid-rock-nashville-bar-remain-open-215225753.html


https://www.tmz.com/2020/03/16/kid-rock-nashville-bar-big-ass-honky-tonk-not-closing-coronavirus/


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## Alice In TX/MO (May 10, 2002)

Ah. Things do change.


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## D-BOONE (Feb 9, 2016)

Masks are not the answer. Most people wouldnt follow the right protocol to remove the mask and just infect themselves or wouldnt properly disinfect the mask after every use. Some would take the mask inside thier home before there disinfected thus infecting their home. etc etc........


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## Danaus29 (Sep 12, 2005)

In addition to masks you would need full body suits and clean rooms where you change your clothes. Hubby goes through sterile gown certifications where he works. Your clean room would have to have a sterile shower where you wash your suit before disrobing.

The time to prevent the spread passed when China admitted they had the disease. Testing was and is still not available to test people without the WHO list of symptoms. Results take 1 to 3 days, when you need an answer in 5 minutes. You would have to self-test before leaving your house in the morning and every evening after returning home from whatever. Those testing positive would not be permitted off their property, or out their door if living in an apartment or condo.


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## MoonRiver (Sep 2, 2007)

D-BOONE said:


> Masks are not the answer. Most people wouldnt follow the right protocol to remove the mask and just infect themselves or wouldnt properly disinfect the mask after every use. Some would take the mask inside thier home before there disinfected thus infecting their home. etc etc........


But they do take their shoes and clothes off before entering the house, right?


----------



## MoonRiver (Sep 2, 2007)

A new study tested 3000 people in an area of Italy and found that between 50% and 75% of people infected with the virus were asymptomatic. I only found a snippet of the study and it said the number of infected people was very high, but did not provide a number.

Social distancing is good, but (imo) everyone should be assumed to have the virus and wear a mask, either surgical or N95.


----------



## unohu (Mar 10, 2020)

keenataz said:


> South Korea, Singapore
> 
> 
> 
> ...


No worries. There isn't an infected person within a hundred miles and the idiot governor STILL closed the bars and restaurants at 5 pm yesterday. I wonder if the corona virus attacks the brain cells first?


----------



## keenataz (Feb 17, 2009)

CKelly78z said:


> In Ohio, all of our schools, bars, restaurants, gyms, YMCAs, Libraries, casinos, concerts, festivals, sporting events (whether high school, college, or pro), and any gathering of more than 50 is banned.
> 
> How is it, that we are still working in factories (with daily shift meetings), business as usual, while the kids are at home unsupervised ?


Ford and GM just shut down


----------



## keenataz (Feb 17, 2009)

unohu said:


> No worries. There isn't an infected person within a hundred miles and the idiot governor STILL closed the bars and restaurants at 5 pm yesterday. I wonder if the corona virus attacks the brain cells first?


How do you know there isn't an infected person?


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

keenataz said:


> How do you know there isn't an infected person?


He doesn't.


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## MoonRiver (Sep 2, 2007)

And here it is. Maybe I should consult to CDC. I have been saying test everyone and assume everyone has the virus and should wear a mask.

Here is the info from China.


> *Our findings also indicate that a radical increase in the identification and isolation of currently undocumented infections would be needed to fully control SARS-CoV2*.... In addition, awareness among healthcare providers, public health officials and the availability of viral identification assays suggest that capacity for identifying previously missed infections has increased. Further, *general population and government response efforts have increased the use of face masks*, restricted travel, delayed school reopening and isolated suspected persons, all of which could additionally slow the spread of SARS-CoV2.


sciencemag


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## unohu (Mar 10, 2020)

keenataz said:


> How do you know there isn't an infected person?


My brain still works. For those that keep their heads clear through this it will be easy. Otherwise the mistakes and economic destruction will rise just as exponentially as the virus.
I also heard about the earthquake in Utah today, but not from the news media. Knowing what's going on isn't that hard, but it takes a little effort.


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

MoonRiver said:


> Here is the info from China.


It wasn't masks alone.



> Further, general population and government response efforts have increased the use of face masks, restricted travel, delayed school reopening and isolated suspected persons, all of which could additionally slow the spread of SARS-CoV2.
> 
> *Combined, these measures are expected to increase reporting rates, reduce the proportion of undocumented infections, and decrease the growth and spread of infection.* Indeed, estimation of the epidemiological characteristics of the outbreak after 23 January in China, indicate that government control efforts and population awareness have reduced the rate of spread of the virus (i.e., lower β, μβ, _Re_), increased the reporting rate, and lessened the burden on already over-extended healthcare systems.


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## fishhead (Jul 19, 2006)

Here are some excellent models of how a virus spreads through a population. They show how social distancing can really cause the virus spread to stall down. They are short so please watch them all. 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/grap..._XPNUMG79iEueIgLptZZTju1UAcVAwm6_rEDYgwB__CBs


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## DebbieJ (Oct 9, 2016)

A mask is only useful if you’re sick. It won’t stop you from getting sick if you wear it. I will be making us some masks that are washable. I have the disposable like they give you In the doctors offices.


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## MoonRiver (Sep 2, 2007)

DebbieJ said:


> A mask is only useful if you’re sick. It won’t stop you from getting sick if you wear it. I will be making us some masks that are washable. I have the disposable like they give you In the doctors offices.


I have documented that is false several times. A surgical mask prevents a sick person from infecting others and an N95 mask protects a person from being infected.


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## newfieannie (Dec 24, 2006)

in that case i will wear one if i ever venture out again. i have a few n95


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## DebbieJ (Oct 9, 2016)

I’m not talking about the N95 masks!


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## MoonRiver (Sep 2, 2007)

newfieannie said:


> in that case i will wear one if i ever venture out again. i have a few n95


Put it on and do a sniff test with something that has a strong smell. If you smell it, the mask is not sealed properly.


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## Danaus29 (Sep 12, 2005)

8 months later and covid has recently started really spreading. If masks worked it would have been beat by now. The fact is that the general public will not take enough precautions to prevent spreading covid. From attending gatherings while experiencing symptoms to improper mask use to neglecting to wash their hands. Humans are designed to spread germs.

The only real way to slow the spread is enforced quarantine of infected and exposed individuals. But do that and people will refuse to be tested unless they are so sick they HAVE to go to the hospital.


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## DebbieJ (Oct 9, 2016)

I will wear my mask when I go out in public. I wash my hands when possible and use hand sanitizer when I can’t wash my hands. I’m not going out as often as before the hit. The cases are rising again. This is the worst time I’ve lived through in my 69 years. Well, that I remember.


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## Redlands Okie (Nov 28, 2017)

Lots of pandemics here in the USA in the last 60 or 70 years. Many with way more potential deaths, some with way more deaths. We are doing pretty good on this little current problem. 









List of epidemics - Wikipedia







en.wikipedia.org


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## Redlands Okie (Nov 28, 2017)

The link above seems to mainly rank mask by how attractive they are, how comfortable they are and how easy they are to wash with soap and water. 

Some are even labeled as respirators. Wow. Cannot get even the basics right. No information on their ability to actually filter out the virus. Which makes sense because they are not designed to. 
They are designed to keep people from transferring splashes, droplets and spit upon each other. They are not designed to filter out airborne particles, including those made by the wearer. Lots of information out there about these issues from a variety of countries and sources. 






Respirators protect from exposure to airborne particles. In healthcare, protects from exposure to biological aerosols including viruses and bacteria. Surgical masks are a barrier to splashes, droplets, and spit. Respirators are designed to seal tight to the face of the wearer.









Respirators - Respirators Versus Surgical Masks Versus Non-medical Masks : OSH Answers


Is there a difference between a respirator and a surgical mask? When should workers wear a respirator or a surgical mask? Can you tell the difference between a respirator and a surgical mask just by looking at it?




www.ccohs.ca


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## nodak3 (Feb 5, 2003)

Here are things proven to help reduce the rate of transmission: wear a mask. While a properly fitted and worn respirator would be nice to have, even my kid in emergency medicine can't get them. But multilayer cloth masks do slow the rate of transmission by curtailing droplets. It isn't a be all cure all, but it does help. Those that point at mask mandates, infection rises, and say see masks don't work are failing to factor in that folks simply refuse to wear them. If all americans started never going out of their homes today without a good cloth mask, we could dramatically reduce transmission. And yes, social distancing is hard but with work and planning most of us can do it most of the time. That also slows, not ends, but slows, transmission. Hand washing is crucial and yes, office workers may be cleaning their hands upwards of a hundred times a day. Yes, you clean your hands before you touch the handle to get in your car, and then when inside again before you touch the steering wheel, etc.

Some say to shield the vulnerable but do not volunteer themselves to go into a possibly never ending solitary confinement. They say let her rip through and just accept millions will die but they never volunteer to be one who dies, or to off their own kid or spouse for the cause. They say they won't take the vax when available.

Here is what I say: those folks are nothing more nor less than what were called shirkers and draft dodgers in our previous wars. My daddy did not fight and be wounded at Peleliu to protect your right to act like a spoiled brat and wait for others to do the heavy lifting.

We know the public health measures help. They are safe, are cheap, are fairly easy. Why not do them? Even if they only all added up to 50% slowdown of transmission (estimates do go as high as 90%) that would have saved around 125,000 or so American lives. Think about that. That would mean preventing 41 9/11s.

I believe every patriotic American on this board would lay down their lives to have saved the roughly 3,000 that died that day. But today for some reason some won't even put on a simple mask, wash their hands, stay out of crowds, or social distance.

I don't get it. I don't get the fear of science, or the stubborn refusal to help others instead of throwing a tantrum over being bossed. I truly don't get it.

But I believe some day we will all understand, when we watch those stand before Christ and explain why they would not help. Remember He said whatever you do to others you do to Him.

Sobering thought indeed. Probably more than I should have said. If it offends just put me on ignore. Sounds like you would have already put Him on ignore. For now.


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## Redlands Okie (Nov 28, 2017)

It’s been most of a year and we hear that some in the medical field cannot get n-95 mask. There has been plenty of time to increase the production rate to fill the needs by now. One of my local equipment rental stores had n-95 mask on the shelf briefly a week ago. KN-95 mask are easily available in this area currently. 

That science comment should be used carefully. I suspect that if people really paid attention to it they would be extremely frustrated with the current issues. Instead they fall for the propaganda be given out. No doubt the cloth mask might do some good. People just need to realize how ineffective they are and use other means to ensure their safety. It’s not that hard to do.


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## Alice In TX/MO (May 10, 2002)

Masks might work, IF people would wear them correctly, not touch their masks/faces/eyes after touching anything in their environment.

I see a high level of mask compliance here in Central Texas, but the numbers continue to rise.

What I see in the grocery store, etc., is that folks touch stuff, adjust their masks, go in and out of doors touching doorknobs and handles, etc.

When most of the folks stocking after hours are wearing their masks, but they still get Covid, there has to be a vector. It's hands.


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## MichaelZ (May 21, 2013)

Get tested! The tests are readily available now and are generally at no cost. My wife and I got tested yesterday - took an hour total - mostly time for filling out information on a computer form. We had to do this one at a time since we only had one device to do this.


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## Alice In TX/MO (May 10, 2002)

What is the purpose of getting tested? It doesn’t protect you? It is only a look back.


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## MichaelZ (May 21, 2013)

Alice In TX/MO said:


> What is the purpose of getting tested? It doesn’t protect you? It is only a look back.


We got tested because my son had Covid symptoms of an extended fever. We did not know about his fever until after we went to visit my other son. My other son has strict rules at his work place regarding Covid - he wants to make sure we are negative before returning to work. Also, we have inlaws next door that we regular see and they are in their 70's. We do not show symptoms but I heard on the radio from a reputable source that as many as 70% of those testing positive do not show symptoms. So in summary, it is to protect others.


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## Alice In TX/MO (May 10, 2002)

Unfortunately, a negative test only means that you don’t have it RIGHT THEN. You could be incubating the case you contracted two days ago.


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## MichaelZ (May 21, 2013)

Our exposure was a little over a week ago, so the testing would almost certainly reveal a positive. Unfortunately, our younger son did not tell us of his symptoms until after we were at the older son's house (which we would not have visited if we had known). If people that test positive self-quarantine, it certainly will slow this whole thing down. And right now, that is surely needed as hospitals in our area are starting to get filled.


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## poppy (Feb 21, 2008)

Alice In TX/MO said:


> Masks might work, IF people would wear them correctly, not touch their masks/faces/eyes after touching anything in their environment.
> 
> I see a high level of mask compliance here in Central Texas, but the numbers continue to rise.
> 
> ...



Dr. Fauci said yesterday that even after you have been vaccinated with a vaccine that is 90-95% effective, we will still need social distancing and masks. So, apparently a 90-95% effective vaccine is just another layer of protection on top of the much vaunted masks and social distancing. We've been told herd immunity kicks in at around 70% and the virus would die out on its own. But a 90-95% effective vaccine isn't sufficient? Something smells rotten.


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## Alice In TX/MO (May 10, 2002)

Masks, distancing, and pseudo vaccines are just talking points in the mind games.


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## poppy (Feb 21, 2008)

Alice In TX/MO said:


> Masks, distancing, and pseudo vaccines are just talking points in the mind games.



Some are beginning to wake up. I've see some posts on other boards by mask supporters bemoaning the fact that their counties are very mask compliant and everyone you see out wears a mask but the virus is still spreading like wildfire is their counties. They are asking why and how this can be happening.


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## The Paw (May 19, 2006)

poppy said:


> Dr. Fauci said yesterday that even after you have been vaccinated with a vaccine that is 90-95% effective, we will still need social distancing and masks. So, apparently a 90-95% effective vaccine is just another layer of protection on top of the much vaunted masks and social distancing. We've been told herd immunity kicks in at around 70% and the virus would die out on its own. But a 90-95% effective vaccine isn't sufficient? Something smells rotten.


You can't just think "90% is greater than 70%, so no problem". The problem is you have to get from here to there.

While there are still a lot of infected people running around, they can still infect the 10% of the people that the vaccine doesn't work for. Plus, even though the vaccine is 90% effective, we know that not everyone is going to cooperate and be vaccinated, and we also know that they aren't all going to be vaccinated at the same time. 

So, as the level of vaccinated individuals increases, if we continue to wear masks, social distance and wash hands, the number of infected persons will fall faster. And we will get to herd immunity faster. Remember though, as we try to return to "normal" people are going to start travelling again. So we really need to shoot for a global herd immunity, as a national herd immunity is only as good as your degree of isolation.


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## muleskinner2 (Oct 7, 2007)

gilberte said:


> I've been in restrooms and watched them come out after flushing and proceed out the door, passing the sink without so much as a glance at it


An old cowboy was leaving a rest room after doing his business. A busybody saw him exit the stall and head for the door. He barked at the old cowboy, "My mother taught me to wash my hands after going to the bathroom." Without missing a step, the old cowboy answered, "My mother taught me not to **** on my hands."


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## muleskinner2 (Oct 7, 2007)

MoonRiver said:


> Here's what I'm talking about. I just can't believe it took this long for someone to do the obvious. For less than $100 per person, every American could wear a mask and stop the virus in a matter of a few weeks.


How would you smoke your cigarettes, or pick your nose?


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## barnbilder (Jul 1, 2005)

Glad that the scientific community seems to feel like immunity is possible through antibodies from vaccine. That means my antibodies from getting infected should work just fine.


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## Alice In TX/MO (May 10, 2002)

Depends on who you ask.


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## doozie (May 21, 2005)

We have the mask mandate, I'm still seeing lots of people not wearing them, so much for that idea.

The news is saying not to go anywhere unless absolutely necessesary, but then a moment later has a news story on hunting season and the half full bars showing people crammed together at the bar while there are empty tables they could be sitting at instead.

I was wondering if you already had Covid if you would need to continue wearing a mask.
It's still unknown if you could still spread it if exposed a second time last time I checked.

I'm waiting for a big snowfall that around here closes things up and keeps people in "naturally" and seeing if the case count declines at all.


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

doozie said:


> I'm waiting for a big snowfall that around here closes things up and keeps people in "naturally" and seeing if the case count declines at all.


We don't get much snow around here.

People locked down will infect each other, and then suffer the consequences. We cannot stop it. We can only hope to survive it


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