# Angus??



## Bubbas Boys (Apr 11, 2013)

We got 2 250lb black angus steer from a place that sells early weaned calves. They said they are full angus. I have no reason to not believe them, I even doubted it since they sell them so young but they swear they are. We are new to cattle so what features do u look at to make sure they are not dairy crosses? Not that it maters now but... just wanting to know. Thanks!!


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## Empire (Jan 7, 2016)

What are your goals for them? If you are looking to put meat in your freezer, does it matter if they are a cross? Usually something that is weaned that young won't live up to its full potential because it should have nursed longer. I like to leave my calves on for about 6 months, which is usually a calf weighing in North of 500 pounds. They don't drink much at that age, but they are getting all the benefits of longer nursing.
If you are looking for pure angus, buy stock from someone that has registered angus. Be prepared to spend some money though. If you don't care if there is some dairy in them, then a calf that is weaned at 250 pounds could be OK for you. I bought 3 angus calves earlier this year that were weaned around 200 pounds. They are crosses and the farmer wanted to stop feeding them. I got them on the cheap. They are all black and look like an angus calf should, except I know that they aren't full bloods. When I ship them to auction, it won't matter, because around here, black pays the most.


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## M5farm (Jan 14, 2014)

Bubbas Boys said:


> We got 2 250lb black angus steer from a place that sells early weaned calves. They said they are full angus. I have no reason to not believe them, I even doubted it since they sell them so young but they swear they are. We are new to cattle so what features do u look at to make sure they are not dairy crosses? Not that it maters now but... just wanting to know. Thanks!!



Post some pics , I do not know of anyone that sells beef calves at 250# unless the dam died or they were going down hill with calves on them. A lot of people will tell you their calf is angus because its black. Might not be the case here But I have my suspicions.


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## CIW (Oct 2, 2007)

Many commercial herdsmen have a couple of dairy cows in their herd (usually Freisen Holstein) They hold heifers from those cows. That is one way to increase the milking ability in your herd if you aren't using bulls with milking EPD's.
If you go back far enough back in most breeds of beef cattle their is dairy mixed in.
My calves come out of F1 cows and homozygus Black Limousine bulls. That makes them 1/4 black angus, 1/4 Hereford, and 1/2 Limousine.
Do any of the calves have white up around their teat or scrotal area. If so they have some Freisen Holstein in their background somewhere.
Something smells funny about this deal. Nothings pure unless it has papers and is DNA tested.


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## Bubbas Boys (Apr 11, 2013)




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## Bubbas Boys (Apr 11, 2013)

This is one she gave me before we got them. I will get new one tomorrow and post. Thanks!!


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## sassafras manor (Dec 5, 2009)

In my opinion as skinny as they appear to be they were either bottle raised or their mommas couldn't produce much milk. An Angus or even Angus cross calf should be filled out a lot more than those calves appear to be.


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## CIW (Oct 2, 2007)

Those look like roping calves. Maybe Corriente bulls on an Angus cow. They look like they are built to run. I guess we will see more with a current photo.


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## Ronney (Nov 26, 2004)

Whatever they are, they are not Angus. An Angus calf should be stocky and solid, those calves are far too finely boned to be straight beef. The two backsides to the right have the chocolaty colouring that I get when crossing Angus with Jersey. They do go black with age but retain the dished face of the Jersey.

If they have been crossed with Angus they will all be polled but some may grow scurs as they mature. As mentioned, crosses will often have white around the udder or pizzle. If Jersey is in the mix they will show the dished face of that breed as I mentioned. And as I said above, dairy will throw a light boned calf every time and often with longer legs.

No Angus, or beef breeder, in their right mind will sell 250lb calves off the dam - why would they want to unless they want to milk a herd of beef cows! Keep these two as you already have them but find another source of calves where the seller is more honest about what he's selling you. I hope you didn't pay through the nose for them.

Cheers,
Ronnie


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## Bubbas Boys (Apr 11, 2013)

Well crap!! I was so worried about this. I asked her straight out about this several time by text. I could not understand why she sold bottle and early weaned angus calves?!. I guess I should have trusted my gut, but she was so quick to promise they are full angus and offer to help us in any way. We paid $400 a head plus their gas to bring close to us. We also bought what sje saus is a red angus heifer bottle calf!! My boys were gonna try to show these next year at our little fair! I cant believe people would lie that much when questioned!


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## Bubbas Boys (Apr 11, 2013)




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## Bubbas Boys (Apr 11, 2013)

They do have the white patches by utter! ! What is that usually crossed with? The heifer is all red all over.


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## Bubbas Boys (Apr 11, 2013)




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## Bubbas Boys (Apr 11, 2013)

Sorry that pic sucks and doesnt help identify them at all. Haha.


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## Empire (Jan 7, 2016)

Yep those aren't full blooded Angus. That seller saw a sucker and took you. Why on earth would they sell a red Angus bottle calf? Any farmer worth their salt wouldn't do that unless the dam either died or was going down hill fast. Hopefully they do well for you but I'd find a new source for weaned calves in the 500 pound range.
Around here many dairy farmers breed their first calf heifers to Angus for calving ease. Could be a possibility in your case as well. Either Holstein or jersey I would imagine.


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## Bubbas Boys (Apr 11, 2013)

What do u think the red one is?


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## Bubbas Boys (Apr 11, 2013)

This really sucks!! I really thought we could trust them. Guess thats what we get for lack of knowledge and believing that all livestock folks would be honest!! Should have got on here first and asked you all.


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## Empire (Jan 7, 2016)

Red could be anything. Color isn't a distinguishing factor in most cattle breeds. Two black Angus could throw a red calf if they carry the red gene. Those calves are likely to be heavily Angus influenced but probably not pure. 
Don't get two discouraged. Most cattle these days aren't pure bred. For years many folks crossed breeds to get the best traits from both breeds. Many good cattle have been cross bred. If you are looking for pure bred angus, I'd look for a registered herd in your area and try to buy the best calf you can afford. If you are looking for ffa projects for your kids, these calves will probably work out very well for you. Bottle feeding a calf creates a bond that will work to your advantage when it comes time to start training for the show ring.


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## Gravytrain (Mar 2, 2013)

My dairy farmer buddy would give me all the calves like that I could take for free...if I wanted them. Angus x Holstein that look just like that. If I had the time to bottle raise them I would take them.


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## Bubbas Boys (Apr 11, 2013)

Well as long as my boys can show them and enjoy and they will grow to be ok beef I am ok with that. Will these grow beefy like beef? We had jersey bulls for 7-8 months and finally sold them. Too slow. I knew they werent reg and I didnt pay luke they were but she swore they were full angus!! Thanks fot all help and comments!


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## Bubbas Boys (Apr 11, 2013)

Her are better pics my wife took.


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## Bubbas Boys (Apr 11, 2013)




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## Bubbas Boys (Apr 11, 2013)




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## DianeWV (Feb 1, 2007)

Don't get discouraged. Hopefully your calves will be healthy.......good luck with everything!


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## Empire (Jan 7, 2016)

They should make great beef, depending on what and how much you feed them. As.long as you paid what you think is fair, then you didn't get taken. They look like healthy calves from the pics, and that would be my main concern, not If they are full blood angus. Most angus aren't full blood. 
How they grow out will have a lot to do with the amount of dairy influence in them. Some half dairy half beef cattle grow up to look like a beef animal, others grow up to look more like a dairy animal. Only time will tell. You should be OK showing them, but I wouldn't plan on bringing home grand champion with a dairy bred steer.


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## Bubbas Boys (Apr 11, 2013)

I am ok with not bringing home a champion in cattle. But, just dont want boys to have only calf that looks like a dairy steer. Haha.


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## BeltieX (Sep 26, 2015)

They looks like average Angus to me.


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## Empire (Jan 7, 2016)

They should look like average angus, many average angus have some dairy in their lineage somewhere. The percentage of full blood cattle in the us is very small compared to the number of total cattle in the us. I am sure they will.work out great for whatever you want them for.


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## BeltieX (Sep 26, 2015)

They surely didn't show much dairy since they are too young.


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## Bubbas Boys (Apr 11, 2013)

Good to hear that they look angus. Thanks for comment! ! We started halter training today. I can say one thing. They are waaaaay stronger than the 300 lb jerseys we had last year. Haha.


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## barnbilder (Jul 1, 2005)

Angus don't have magical properties that prevent them from having spindly little calves that don't grow good. Have seen some highly bred Angus bulls that would throw calves just like that. Then some backyard breeder gets a hold of them and doesn't castrate as needed and there are hatchet butted "Angus" bulls everywhere, and cows that turn into a skeleton the first hot spell they come across with a calf on them, can't make it through the winter without grain, etc.

Some people spend a lot of time on the markets. Some markets do a preg check on cull cows. Sometimes people buy those cows, take them home, calve them out and sell the cows once they pick back up just a little. Sometimes they live, some times they die. The calves don't usually look good, coming from some ancient cow, or one with udder issues. They could be purebred, but coming from an ancient cow, they might never catch up to a healthy calf.

I have also seen farms selling a lot of calves that size because the cows were dropping of Johne's right and left.

But, there are an awful lot of holstein angus cross calves on the market that look just like that.


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## barnbilder (Jul 1, 2005)

Now the pictures you just posted show them a little better. They are showing a lot of sheath. I don't really see any dairy, but my guess is there could be some brangus or beefmaster somewhere in their background.


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## Bubbas Boys (Apr 11, 2013)

Ok. Thanks. Looking for any and all opinions. We are very much newbies!!


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## Bubbas Boys (Apr 11, 2013)

So if it ends up they are dairy cross, will they possibly grow horns?


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## BeltieX (Sep 26, 2015)

From Angus? I never seen a horned F1 Angus X dairy.


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## BeltieX (Sep 26, 2015)

barnbilder said:


> Now the pictures you just posted show them a little better. They are showing a lot of sheath. I don't really see any dairy, but my guess is there could be some brangus or beefmaster somewhere in their background.


You can get purebred Angus with loose sheath. We will get a calf with too much skin from both Angus parents occasionally.


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## Bubbas Boys (Apr 11, 2013)

So the loose sheath is a sign of less dairy traits? What about the heads? I thought they seemed small but... I am new to the traits? Do the legs seem long?


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## BeltieX (Sep 26, 2015)

No, it's normal for a young Angus calf.


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## Bubbas Boys (Apr 11, 2013)

What about the way the neck of the one fades into a rusty brown color?


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## oregon woodsmok (Dec 19, 2010)

I think they might be Angus X Holstein. Don't despair. In my opinion the Angus Holstein beef is the best in the world. You get some marbling from the Angus and the fine grained flavorful meat from the Holstein.

My advice with Holstein cattle is to butcher a little bit older than you would butcher a pure beef steer. The Holstein grows a huge frame first before they put on any muscle. You don't want to butcher before they have time to put meat onto that great big frame. Meat from slightly older Holstein is still excellent and tender.

There are purebred angus all around me. Mind you, they are all top quality cattle, but the calves are very wide and blocky. There might not be beef cow muscle on them, but there is muscle and their frame is a big wide square: big wide hips, big wide shoulders, little baby doll head, deep body.

The little heifer is cute. Keep her and AI to a low birth weight, first calf heifer Angus bull and you will get some excellent meat. My favorite beef to eat is an Angus X Holstein cow bred back to a purebred Angus. That meat is superior.


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## Bubbas Boys (Apr 11, 2013)

Great. Thank you!!


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## TedH71 (Jan 19, 2003)

I've been told in the past Angus cattle also came in red but that red is being bred out. Here diary bull calves typically are going for $10 each! That's the current price in Kansas auction houses....makes me want to get one but literally no space to keep one.


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## Bubbas Boys (Apr 11, 2013)

So if they were cross with holstein or jersey would they be starting to grow horns or no?


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## Ronney (Nov 26, 2004)

If you go back to post number 9, I made the comment that Angus cross will be polled so no, they won't grow horns but may develop scurs which are different and often fall off on their own. Nor do they grow very big - the largest scur I've seen would have been 4", most often they are no more than buttons.

Cheers,
Ronnie


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