# Another reason we need charter schools - boy suspended for having toy gun at home during online classes



## boatswain2PA (Feb 13, 2020)

12-year-old suspended after teacher spots toy gun during virtual class


A 12-year-old boy in Colorado got a five-day suspension for flashing a toy gun across his computer screen during an online art class, according to a report.




www.foxnews.com





Another black family who wants to take their kid out of failing public schools.

I wonder how much the administrators who made this decision get paid.


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## no really (Aug 7, 2013)

Wow, what an over reaction. What possible reason could there be for the school to call the police? How about calling the parents? And than the 5 day suspension, what reasoning is there for that?


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## muleskinner2 (Oct 7, 2007)

So now the socialist liberals who run the schools can dictate what you have in your home. I wonder if the police had a warrant, or just did a welfare check. I have done welfare checks, and we had to ask permission to come inside the house. That would be the last time my kid participated in anything with that school.

I don't have children, and this makes me too mad for words.


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## GTX63 (Dec 13, 2016)

The one who needs the welfare check is the teacher.

Then once they are fired they can begin collecting their other welfare check.


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## GTX63 (Dec 13, 2016)

Here is a multiple choice that should be included with every new application for a teaching position in public schools-

1. Do you believe you have the right to influence a student's beliefs regarding culture, religion, sex or politics beyond what they are learning from their parents? 
Yes
No
(Circle your answer completely and do not touch the answer with your pencil).


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## GTX63 (Dec 13, 2016)

Seems not too long ago we had a public school thread with a frothing advocate for student privacy that believed parents had no business monitoring their child's classroom activities and would only be allowed so once they had politely requested and been granted permission.
Student privacy you understand of course.
Kids can't have just anyone spying on them while they are learning you see.


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## random (Jul 23, 2020)

There have been an increasing number of reports of schools disciplining students for personal activities that have nothing to do with school. Facebook posts and such resulting in suspension. I remember one last year, for example, of a student posting pics of a day at the range, resulted in the same overreaction - police called, administrative action, etc.

Very serious overreach. Almost like they want to own the kids.


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## GTX63 (Dec 13, 2016)

From the article-
_Reports said the school district, the Widefield District #3, refused to give the Elliott family the recording of the online class, but authorities showed the family a video of the class from a recording from a police body camera. _

The Grand Mountain school said in a statement:_ “We follow all school board policies whether we are in-person learning or distance learning. We take the safety of all our students and staff very seriously. Safety is always our number one priority.” _


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## poppy (Feb 21, 2008)

Another example of a liberal teacher with visions of grandeur. She sees herself as the official government representative responsible for seeing every child in her class is raised according to her standards. Of course the administration always backs her kind up. Makes you wonder how kids survived back in the day when a kids often carried a shotgun to school and stood it in the classroom corner because they needed it to shoot a rabbit on the way home for supper.


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## Wolf mom (Mar 8, 2005)

And you wonder why things are the way they are today.....


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## no really (Aug 7, 2013)

Wolf mom said:


> And you wonder why things are the way they are today.....


It's amazing what is going on, I think it is opening a lot of parents eyes.


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## boatswain2PA (Feb 13, 2020)

GTX63 said:


> Then once they are fired they can begin collecting their other welfare check.


Public school teachers dont get fired.


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## TripleD (Feb 12, 2011)

poppy said:


> Another example of a liberal teacher with visions of grandeur. She sees herself as the official government representative responsible for seeing every child in her class is raised according to her standards. Of course the administration always backs her kind up. Makes you wonder how kids survived back in the day when a kids often carried a shotgun to school and stood it in the classroom corner because they needed it to shoot a rabbit on the way home for supper.


Back in high school during hunting season I had three in my truck! A shotgun, deer rifle and a .22. The wussifcation is in full bloom!


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## SLFarmMI (Feb 21, 2013)

boatswain2PA said:


> Public school teachers dont get fired.


Lie. Public school teachers can and do get fired. 

The teacher in the OP did not react as I would have but I don't blame her for being concerned when she saw one of her students flashing a gun on camera.


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## no really (Aug 7, 2013)

SLFarmMI said:


> Lie. Public school teachers can and do get fired.
> 
> The teacher in the OP did not react as I would have but I don't blame her for being concerned when she saw one of her students flashing a gun on camera.


The teacher said she didn't think it was real, it was neon green. The hierarchy in the school system reacted poorly IMHO.


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## SLFarmMI (Feb 21, 2013)

no really said:


> The teacher said she didn't think it was real, it was neon green. The hierarchy in the school system reacted poorly IMHO.


I don't disagree that administration overreacted.


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## boatswain2PA (Feb 13, 2020)

GTX63 said:


> Then once they are fired they can begin collecting their other welfare check.


Public school teachers dont get fire


SLFarmMI said:


> Lie. Public school teachers can and do get fired.


I was using a slight hyperbole.

Yes, they can and do get fired. Rarely. And only after due process that has been agreed upon by their union, which usually means many months, or even years, of getting paid while waiting for the due process to finish.


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## JeffreyD (Dec 27, 2006)

no really said:


> The teacher said she didn't think it was real, it was neon green. The hierarchy in the school system reacted poorly IMHO.


They always over react. Its in their dna. They also don't care about destroying families.


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## 101pigs (Sep 18, 2018)

poppy said:


> Another example of a liberal teacher with visions of grandeur. She sees herself as the official government representative responsible for seeing every child in her class is raised according to her standards. Of course the administration always backs her kind up. Makes you wonder how kids survived back in the day when a kids often carried a shotgun to school and stood it in the classroom corner because they needed it to shoot a rabbit on the way home for supper.


60 years ago small school in S.E.Mo. No guns allow on school campus. Same all over the state of Mo. Same rule today. No weapon of anykind on school property. Just common sence. School rules are made by the school , goverment, people who have children in school etc. If anyone wants change go to school meeting or change school or home school, etc. Classes on line has to have rules just as if the child was in school. If parents don,t have the time to take care of their kids while on line and in school on line they should try something else for their children.


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## SLFarmMI (Feb 21, 2013)

boatswain2PA said:


> Public school teachers dont get fire
> 
> I was using a slight hyperbole.
> 
> Yes, they can and do get fired. Rarely. And only after due process that has been agreed upon by their union, which usually means many months, or even years, of getting paid while waiting for the due process to finish.


No, you were posting an outright lie because you've bought into the myth that private schools are wonderful and public schools are crap.


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## GTX63 (Dec 13, 2016)

Fact.
There are a lot of public schools that are crap.
This teacher owes the child and his parents an apology and should face discipline for the results of her actions.


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## TripleD (Feb 12, 2011)

101pigs said:


> 60 years ago small school in S.E.Mo. No guns allow on school campus. Same all over the state of Mo. Same rule today. No weapon of anykind on school property. Just common sence. School rules are made by the school , goverment, people who have children in school etc. If anyone wants change go to school meeting or change school or home school, etc. Classes on line has to have rules just as if the child was in school. If parents don,t have the time to take care of their kids while on line and in school on line they should try something else for their children.


I'm glad I didn't have to live there! I would have to go back home before hunting.


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## 101pigs (Sep 18, 2018)

GTX63 said:


> Fact.
> There are a lot of public schools that are crap.
> This teacher owes the child and his parents an apology and should face discipline for the results of her actions.


She was following schol rules. So sue the school not the teacher.


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## GTX63 (Dec 13, 2016)

Of course, and if there was a bottle of JD on the dresser behind him, or an ash tray, or a half nude woman on a poster, etc, may be we would say that a little common sense was in order.
If a teacher has such a low level of deductive reasoning that police, child services, 5 day suspensions results over this, they have no business in a classroom, unless they are sitting in front of the desk.


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## JeffreyD (Dec 27, 2006)

SLFarmMI said:


> No, you were posting an outright lie because you've bought into the myth that private schools are wonderful and public schools are crap.


Fact...public schools suck, the statistics prove that. Private schools are far superior. You'll say im wrong and hurl some insults, but you can't prove me wrong, you never do. You also don't answer simple questions when they run contrary to your personal beliefs. Were in sad shape if your representative of public school teachers!


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## JeffreyD (Dec 27, 2006)

101pigs said:


> She was following schol rules. So sue the school not the teacher.


So were the SS. Following rules....


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## GTX63 (Dec 13, 2016)

Lots of good public school teachers working is a system that in a monolithic FAIL.
They can be an exception to the rule.
This is sad and not an exception.


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## coolrunnin (Aug 28, 2010)

101pigs said:


> 60 years ago small school in S.E.Mo. No guns allow on school campus. Same all over the state of Mo. Same rule today. No weapon of anykind on school property. Just common sence. School rules are made by the school , goverment, people who have children in school etc. If anyone wants change go to school meeting or change school or home school, etc. Classes on line has to have rules just as if the child was in school. If parents don,t have the time to take care of their kids while on line and in school on line they should try something else for their children.


SWMO school allowed guns on the property 40 years ago. 

Several today have trap teams with school owned guns.


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## GTX63 (Dec 13, 2016)

Guns weren't the problem then and they aren't today either, but we know that.


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## SLFarmMI (Feb 21, 2013)

JeffreyD said:


> Fact...public schools suck, the statistics prove that. Private schools are far superior. You'll say im wrong and hurl some insults, but you can't prove me wrong, you never do. You also don't answer simple questions when they run contrary to your personal beliefs. Were in sad shape if your representative of public school teachers!


Fact -- the research proves that you're wrong. Try reading it. You won't though because anything that runs counter to your preconceived notions is a no go for you.


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## TripleD (Feb 12, 2011)

There's no absolute answer! Come at me from either opinion and I will counter...


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## JeffreyD (Dec 27, 2006)

SLFarmMI said:


> Fact -- the research proves that you're wrong. Try reading it. You won't though because anything that runs counter to your preconceived notions is a no go for you.


You first. Facts say not only are you so very very wrong, but we spend billions on being so far behind other countries. Unlike you, i do read what others post. Ive read quite a few studies, some from other countries. You even admitted publicly that you dont, so whats your point. What did you just post to refute my statement....zero....


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## GTX63 (Dec 13, 2016)

The typical response has been by public school sycophants, in this thread as well as numerous others that deal with the problem of government education, is deny deflect and blame others.


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## SLFarmMI (Feb 21, 2013)

JeffreyD said:


> You first. Facts say not only are you so very very wrong, but we spend billions on being so far behind other countries. Unlike you, i do read what others post. Ive read quite a few studies, some from other countries. You even admitted publicly that you dont, so whats your point. What did you just post to refute my statement....zero....


Try again. Research does not support your argument. Unlike you, not only do I read research, I understand it. You want to believe the myth, go right ahead. Case in point, you state we are "so far behind other countries" but the facts state that we are in the middle of the pack.


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## GTX63 (Dec 13, 2016)

The teacher was wrong and has no business in the classroom.
They obviously felt empowered by the system they work in to make such poor judgements.
The administration backs the teacher up.
So one fail is followed by another fail.


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## SLFarmMI (Feb 21, 2013)

GTX63 said:


> The typical response has been by public school sycophants, in this thread as well as numerous others that deal with the problem of government education, is deny deflect and blame others.


The typical response by people who actually know about public school rather than the myths you like to perpetuate is to provide facts.


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## GTX63 (Dec 13, 2016)

We don't know how this will affect this kid. The dad seems to believe it was extremely frightening and traumatic.
The school doesn't seem to feel that way.
Shameful. Again.


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## GTX63 (Dec 13, 2016)

A teacher that seems to believe that privacy extends to their classroom, yet not to their students.


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## GTX63 (Dec 13, 2016)

The dad entrusted his son to the school's online learning program and for that he got the police at his door and his family scrutinized by the government.
Because of a toy gun.
There is nothing to excuse such an overreach and the school district isn't offering any.


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## SLADE (Feb 20, 2004)

Lets see.
Children can play and display toy guns when online in school. 
Children have been shot for play and display with a toy gun in the streets.
I just can't take this pro gun argument as serious.
I know many with guns that would consider this argument childish.


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## JeffreyD (Dec 27, 2006)

SLFarmMI said:


> Try again. Research does not support your argument. Unlike you, not only do I read research, I understand it. You want to believe the myth, go right ahead. Case in point, you state we are "so far behind other countries" but the facts state that we are in the middle of the pack.


OMG....middle of the pack, with the highest spending IS so far behind other countries. You dont even understand you made my point for me! Lol 
You only "research" things that agree with your desperate point of view. Your so very transparent its laughable. As your posts are!
And indipendent research does indeed support my position, even you do with your above post. Middle of the pack is something to be proud of?? Really?? Maybe thats all you have to give, middle of the pack teaching...roflmao


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## TripleD (Feb 12, 2011)

TripleD said:


> There's no absolute answer! Come at me from either opinion and I will counter...


Come on now . I got nieces and nephews both whom went to public or home school??? Let's compare...


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

SLFarmMI said:


> No, you were posting an outright lie because you've bought into the myth that private schools are wonderful and public schools are crap.


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## JeffreyD (Dec 27, 2006)

SLADE said:


> Lets see.
> Children can play and display toy guns when online in school.
> Children have been shot for play and display with a toy gun in the streets.
> I just can't take this pro gun argument as serious.
> I know many with guns that would consider this argument childish.


So, demonizing and making a young child feel bad, possibly scaring him for life about a toy is childish? What planet are you from?
I can't take anything you say as serious any longer. Everything you say is now a joke and not to be taken seriously. Smh...


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

SLFarmMI said:


> Try again. Research does not support your argument.


We've heard that line before.
You've not shown any evidence to support the claim.


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## JeffreyD (Dec 27, 2006)

TripleD said:


> Come on now . I got nieces and nephews both whom went to public or home school??? Let's compare...


I have a daughter in 6th grade right now. My son graduated from public school. I went to public schools untill 11th grade. 2 years at private school. My mom 98 is still kicking and tutoring english(yes, i know my grammar is atrocious and i dont care)she was a public school teacher in Burbank California for over 50 years. 2 nieces are teachers, but changing careers now. I have a clue...


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## kinderfeld (Jan 29, 2006)

And people want to defund the police?!?



SLFarmMI said:


> Lie. Public school teachers can and do get fired.


Not often enough.



SLFarmMI said:


> The teacher in the OP did not react as I would have but I don't blame her for being concerned when she saw one of her students flashing a gun on camera.


Concerned about what? One, it was clearly a toy. Two, he was on camera in another location...not in a crowded classroom. And three...it was a TOY.



SLFarmMI said:


> No, you were posting an outright lie because you've bought into the myth that private schools are wonderful and public schools are crap.


Wonder where people get that idea.
Case in point...this particular public school IS crap.


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## TripleD (Feb 12, 2011)

I might as well get it of my mind. Ex girlfriend from 25 years ago is going to retire next year from the public school system. She said I've done well on my teaching classes !


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## Redlands Okie (Nov 28, 2017)

SLFarmMI said:


> Try again. Research does not support your argument. Unlike you, not only do I read research, I understand it. You want to believe the myth, go right ahead. Case in point, you state we are "so far behind other countries" but the facts state that we are in the middle of the pack.


Why are we in the middle of the pack? Nothing to brag about for sure. Kind of shameful I think.


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## Redlands Okie (Nov 28, 2017)

Guess those dealing with online learning better clean up the house. Apparently guns cannot be seen even if legal. Even toy guns not ok. Wonder what happens if a teacher sees laundry undergarments drying ? What about a Koran or other bibles. Adult beverage container setting out on a counter top or open shelf. 


Is it ok to have 

Cigarettes, matches and lighters
chewing gum.
fizzy drinks including high energy drinks.
glass bottles including perfume bottles.
correction fluid (chemicals in them can be misused)
permanent marker pens
unnecessary money
backpacks
rubber bands 
Christmas decorations (because some consider them to be religious symbols)
Gum
Cell phones
Hats
Bandanas
Makeup 
Video tapes CD’s and DVD’s
Golf clubs (potential weapon)
Baseball bats (potential weapon)
Pocket Knives (potential weapon)
Cameras
Over the counter medication (can be misused)
radios
Flyers and posters not related to approved school activity

All of these and many more are not allowed in many USA public schools. Google till your bored if you want more. Lots of parents best get busy setting up a online viewing area thats carefully oriented.


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## muleskinner2 (Oct 7, 2007)

SLFarmMI said:


> No, you were posting an outright lie because you've bought into the myth that private schools are wonderful and public schools are crap.


I don't know a single thing about private schools. But I have been in the Public Schools, and they are crap. A complete and total waste of tax dollars.


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## GTX63 (Dec 13, 2016)

Think about this story again for a moment.
A student was suspended for 5 days based on a toy seen in his home by a teacher thru her monitor.
Rather than contact the parent directly, she then contacted police and her admins.
The school then determines, "Yep, calling the cops was the right thing to do. Suspending the kid and marking his record was the right thing to do."
And the shills for that kind of system keep on shilling.
Why?
Who did that benefit?
I think all but about 1 1/2 people know the answer to that one.


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## GTX63 (Dec 13, 2016)

Maybe if the kid had a few BLM or antifa posters on the wall behind him the teacher might have figured he was just a peaceful protestor and finished the lesson.


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## TripleD (Feb 12, 2011)

muleskinner2 said:


> I don't know a single thing about private schools. But I have been in the Public Schools, and they are crap. A complete and total waste of tax dollars.


My junior or senior year a student got stabbed and died in the hallway. Back to school the next day. The only thing different was about 10 ft of carpet removed. Now it would be who knows what!!!


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## SpentPenny (Jun 11, 2020)

SLFarmMI said:


> No, you were posting an outright lie because you've bought into the myth that private schools are wonderful and public schools are crap.


I worked for USD 259 in Wichita KS after I retired from the police department. My USD job was in computer science (I have a degree in CS) and had nothing to do with law enforcement. However, I have never seen such a failing, disgusting pit of vipers anywhere else in the country. Yes, the public schools I know are crap. They know they are crap and do not care if they rip you off for your tax dollars. The ONLY purpose for a public school is to vacuum up all money that can be extracted from the public.


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## Redlands Okie (Nov 28, 2017)

You forgot their role as daycare warehouses.


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## thesedays (Feb 25, 2011)

Charter schools? Really? The ones that were started around here ended up being nothing but dumping grounds for the worst students, and the worst teachers.


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## SLADE (Feb 20, 2004)

Redlands Okie said:


> Guess those dealing with online learning better clean up the house. Apparently guns cannot be seen even if legal. Even toy guns not ok. Wonder what happens if a teacher sees laundry undergarments drying ? What about a Koran or other bibles. Adult beverage container setting out on a counter top or open shelf.
> 
> 
> Is it ok to have
> ...


I think you raise an interesting question.
Do we want to invite the Govt into our homes?
I for one find that creepy and Govt overreach.


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## boatswain2PA (Feb 13, 2020)

Bearfootfarm said:


> View attachment 90740


Thank you for that. I considered several responses to his twice now calling me a liar, and neither were as charitable as your reply.



Bearfootfarm said:


> You've not shown any evidence to support the claim.


There IS 'research' that shows that public schools are noninferior to private schools. However this 'research' is generally terrible and is heavily biased. Most of this 'research' is paid for/conducted by unions or other ultra-left wing groups/individuals. Most of this 'research' is geared toward proving that private schools are full of wealthy white kids, and thus explaining why their outcomes (measured by student achievements) are better.

There is NO true (good) research on how allowing public choice/universal vouchers would affect student outcomes/costs because the Democrats/unions/leftists/socialists have been able to maintain their domination over the school districts.

What would happen if we gave poor to working-class families a voucher to send their kids to a school of parent's choice? Let's find out. If public schools are as great as some say, then they shouldn't have anything to worry about.



thesedays said:


> Charter schools? Really? The ones that were started around here ended up being nothing but dumping grounds for the worst students, and the worst teachers.


I find this surprising, however I suspect that we are mixing terms here. Charter schools are not necessarily private schools. Many public school districts have created what they advertise as "school choice" and "charter schools" to give people the impression that parents have a choice in where to send their kids.

For example, in my mid-size city, there are "charter" and "magnet" schools in addition to the traditionally terribly run public schools. The "charter" schools have a separate "charter" from the USD to focus on a specific talent. For example there is a "charter" grade school for music, a "charter" middle school for STEM, and a many others (including several that don't really advertise why their 'charter' makes them different from traditional schools). And the 'magnet" schools are schools that the USD has set up to 'draw' (through magnetic attraction of course) the brightest of students for more advanced classes.

How do you get into a charter or magnet schools? Well, the charter school enrollment is selected by.......wait for it........lottery system.

Yup, live in a crappy school district and our wonderful USD gives you a choice to send your kid to a decent charter school...if you are lucky enough to win the damn lottery. How is THAT for school choice.

To get into a magnet school you have to be nominated by school administration.

And of course, kids can be kicked out of charter/magnet schools and sent back to the traditional school. And they can be kicked out of traditional school and into the USD's bad-boy school/prison as well.


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## Farmerga (May 6, 2010)

boatswain2PA said:


> wealthy white kids,


That doesn't make a difference, according to one major party presidential candidate.


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## doc- (Jun 26, 2015)

SLFarmMI said:


> ..." but the facts state that we are in the middle of the pack.


Excellent!!...That's The Goal of the socialist Teachers' Union, isn't it?-- Mediocrity for all! ..You've done your job well.


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## random (Jul 23, 2020)

SLFarmMI said:


> Fact -- the research proves that you're wrong. Try reading it. You won't though because anything that runs counter to your preconceived notions is a no go for you.


I'm curious about a couple things:
1) What grade do you teach?
2) Assuming a higher grade, would you accept a paper from a student that did not include citations?


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## SLFarmMI (Feb 21, 2013)

random said:


> I'm curious about a couple things:
> 1) What grade do you teach?
> 2) Assuming a higher grade, would you accept a paper from a student that did not include citations?


Why is it that the posters on here are too lazy to go find the research? Is it because you don't really want to read anything that challenges your preconceived notions? I don't do the research for my students -- they need to do their own. Try it sometime.


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## Lisa in WA (Oct 11, 2004)

SLFarmMI said:


> Another load of BS posting from you. Just what I would have expected.


Its possible that you may not be the best person to champion the public school system.
The arrogance and rudeness in your posts does little but confirm the suspicions of those with whom you’re arguing.


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

SLFarmMI said:


> *I give back what I get.* If you don't like it, tough.
> 
> The level of *aholery from this group* in regards to public schools and public school teachers does not warrant anything else..


If that were true you'd occasionally post some data to support your claims instead of always resorting to name calling and condescension.


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## Lisa in WA (Oct 11, 2004)

SLFarmMI said:


> Mod delete


I don’t really care one way or the other.
If you want to confirm what people may think of public school teachers, then have at it.
But given the time and energy you spend here not accomplishing anything other than spending your fury, it appears that teachers DO have plenty of free time To fritter away on useless endeavors.


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## boatswain2PA (Feb 13, 2020)

SLFarmMI said:


> I give back what I get. If you don't like it, tough. The level of aholery from this group in regards to public schools and public school teachers does not warrant anything else..


I don't think anyone has been derogatory about public school teachers in general. Most teachers go into teaching because they think they will love it, and DO love teaching kids. 
It is the educational SYSTEM that is badly broken and needs replaced with school choice. Then those great teachers could go off and start their own schools, teach kids the way they need to without the overwhelming bureaucracy, and make more money.


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## SLFarmMI (Feb 21, 2013)

boatswain2PA said:


> I don't think anyone has been derogatory about public school teachers in general.


Then you haven't been paying attention. According to many posters on previous threads, because I am a public school teacher I am a socialist, lazy, stupid, overpaid, can never be fired, only work part time and spend my days indoctrinating children. And those are just the things I can remember off the top of my head.


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## random (Jul 23, 2020)

SLFarmMI said:


> Why is it that the posters on here are too lazy to go find the research? Is it because you don't really want to read anything that challenges your preconceived notions? I don't do the research for my students -- they need to do their own. Try it sometime.


"Why is it that school teachers are too lazy to go find the research?" - why not use that same argument, then, when a student doesn't include references?

YOU are the one making the claims, YOU are the one who should provide the evidence. That was my point, which you very clearly glossed over.

You wouldn't accept that from your students, but you're telling everyone here they have to accept it from you. Seems rather hypocritical of you.


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## boatswain2PA (Feb 13, 2020)

SLFarmMI said:


> According to many posters on previous threads, because I am a public school teacher I am a socialist, lazy, stupid, overpaid, can never be fired, only work part time and spend my days indoctrinating children. And those are just the things I can remember off the top of my head


Well, I dont want to speak for whoever called you those names, but after reading some of your posts.....they may have that opinion of you because of what you say, not because you are a teacher.


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## wr (Aug 10, 2003)

Watching anyone in a position of authority hurl insults and treat others with disrespect while demanding respect leaves me a bit cool. 

From a mod standpoint, first cleanup has happened and there will be no more.


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## GTX63 (Dec 13, 2016)

I think most of the posters here might have used a different approach if the advocate for the education status quo would have been a little more honest and forthcoming.
Once folks are told they aren't experienced/educated/bright enough to understand why things are the way they are, well, then they start grabbing a little dirt in their fists.

BTW, I've said it before, a sure tell to a weak argument is to focus on intellect; the poster's abundance and their critics lack of.


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## Lisa in WA (Oct 11, 2004)

wr said:


> Watching anyone in a position of authority hurl insults and treat others with disrespect while demanding respect leaves me a bit cool.
> 
> From a mod standpoint, first cleanup has happened and there will be no more.


Especially a teacher whom I’d think would be less likely to namecall and lose her temper when dealing with what she thinks is subpar behavior.


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## GTX63 (Dec 13, 2016)

Imagine being a parent trying to share concerns to a teacher about your child and hoping for answers and then listening to non answers, no solutions and playing hot potato with responsibility.
I would like to think as a principal or an administrator I could do something about breaks in the system like that, but the system isn't set up to fix much.


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## TripleD (Feb 12, 2011)

I don't think I did anything offensive. None of my posts were deleted. I did say something about comparing notes on the home schooling versus public. It's from nieces and nephews...


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## wr (Aug 10, 2003)

TripleD said:


> I don't think I did anything offensive. None of my posts were deleted. I did say something about comparing notes on the home schooling versus public. It's from nieces and nephews...


I actually homeschooled one and had two others in the public school system. I removed him from school the day a teacher struck him across the shoulders with a yardstick hard enough to break it and the school wanted to cover it up because she was only a couple years from retirement anyhow. 

She followed the third grade teacher who was well known for screaming fits in her classroom and you can't tell me that other teachers and the principal couldn't hear her screaming profane names at her students and an endless stream of failing marks on report cards. 

The other two had fantastic teachers and managed to miss the two nightmares and both of them seemed to manage to make it all the way to retirement with questionable skill and ethics.


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

Proud products of public schools


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)




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## SLADE (Feb 20, 2004)

Who does everyone disagree with now?
What is wrong with public schools?


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## thesedays (Feb 25, 2011)

SLADE said:


> Who does everyone disagree with now?
> What is wrong with pubic schools?


Based on some of the posts, here and elsewhere on the board, I strongly suspect that many of the posters would sum it up this way: Racial integration.

(dons flameproof suit)


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

thesedays said:


> Based on some of the posts, here and elsewhere on the board, I strongly suspect that many of the posters would sum it up this way: Racial integration.
> 
> (dons flameproof suit)


Find one single post by anyone blaming under-performing public schools on racial integration. 

Don't bother (even though you can't), we get your meaning being, most of us are racists.


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## no really (Aug 7, 2013)

HDRider said:


> Proud products of public schools


We need a face palm emoji stat!!


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## thesedays (Feb 25, 2011)

wr said:


> I actually homeschooled one and had two others in the public school system. I removed him from school the day a teacher struck him across the shoulders with a yardstick hard enough to break it and the school wanted to cover it up because she was only a couple years from retirement anyhow.
> 
> She followed the third grade teacher who was well known for screaming fits in her classroom and you can't tell me that other teachers and the principal couldn't hear her screaming profane names at her students and an endless stream of failing marks on report cards.
> 
> The other two had fantastic teachers and managed to miss the two nightmares and both of them seemed to manage to make it all the way to retirement with questionable skill and ethics.


Some people believe that if teachers could act that way and get away with it nowadays, a lot of our discipline problems would go away. Doesn't work that way.


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## SLADE (Feb 20, 2004)

How do we know they went to public schools?
It looks like another lie.
All to further an ignorance.


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## thesedays (Feb 25, 2011)

SLADE said:


> How do we know they went to public schools?
> It looks like another lie.
> All to further an ignorance.


If someone walked up to me on the street, camera in hand, and asked me some of those questions, I'd be tempted to give goofy answers myself, just to mess with them. And how do we know those weren't scripted, anyway?

On a related note, my brother was exit-polled at an election a while back, and deliberately gave them all wrong answers.


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## GTX63 (Dec 13, 2016)

HDRider said:


> Find one single post by anyone blaming under-performing public schools on racial integration.
> 
> Don't bother (even though you can't), we get your meaning being, most of us are racists.


Good grief.


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## TripleD (Feb 12, 2011)

SLADE said:


> Who does everyone disagree with now?
> What is wrong with public schools?


Give me your background on education and I will give you mine? I'll start first because you probably wont. High school diploma .


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## SLADE (Feb 20, 2004)

I graduated the 8th grade. I like public education.


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## TripleD (Feb 12, 2011)

SLADE said:


> I graduated the 8th grade. I like public education.


Great! You have graduated to the school of hard knocks. Good for you and welcome to my world...


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## SLFarmMI (Feb 21, 2013)

GTX63 said:


> Imagine being a parent trying to share concerns to a teacher about your child and hoping for answers and then listening to non answers, no solutions and playing hot potato with responsibility.
> I would like to think as a principal or an administrator I could do something about breaks in the system like that, but the system isn't set up to fix much.


Imagine being a teacher with decades of experience who is busting her butt to help your kid progress, spending her off the clock hours and money to make that happen and then listening to a parent come in with the attitude that many of the posters here have demonstrated from the get go. Imagine listening to parents verbally abuse you spouting nonsense such as "you're indoctrinating my kid", "you're a socialist", "I read it on the internet so I know more than you do about teaching", and being called a liar when you point out facts to them. Imagine being called selfish and the downfall of the economy when you express concern about returning to face to face instruction during a pandemic and dealing with the attitude of outrage that you express concern for your health, the health of your family, the health of your students and their families. Imagine being subjected to the attitude that, because you are in a public sector job, you have to tolerate disrespect & nod and smile because "my taxes pay your salary".


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## SLFarmMI (Feb 21, 2013)

GTX63 said:


> I think most of the posters here might have used a different approach if the advocate for the education status quo would have been a little more honest and forthcoming.
> Once folks are told they aren't experienced/educated/bright enough to understand why things are the way they are, well, then they start grabbing a little dirt in their fists.
> 
> BTW, I've said it before, a sure tell to a weak argument is to focus on intellect; the poster's abundance and their critics lack of.


Most of the posters would have gotten a different response if they had approached the thread (this and many others) in the spirit of having an open and honest dialogue. But that is not what they did. I am assuming that I am the "advocate for the education status quo" and the fact that you declare I have not been honest and forthcoming is laughable. If you expect I am going to allow the lies, misconceptions and half-truths that many posters like to post about my profession go unchallenged, you are mistaken.


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## Redlands Okie (Nov 28, 2017)

SLADE said:


> I think you raise an interesting question.
> Do we want to invite the Govt into our homes?
> I for one find that creepy and Govt overreach.


Apparently if you have your child learning online then it is looking like the government is controlling what’s in your home or you will be held accountable.

We do not agree very often but this time it seems we do


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## Hiro (Feb 14, 2016)

SLFarmMI said:


> Imagine being a teacher with decades of experience who is busting her butt to help your kid progress, spending her off the clock hours and money to make that happen and then listening to a parent come in with the attitude that many of the posters here have demonstrated from the get go. Imagine listening to parents verbally abuse you spouting nonsense such as "you're indoctrinating my kid", "you're a socialist", "I read it on the internet so I know more than you do about teaching", and being called a liar when you point out facts to them. Imagine being called selfish and the downfall of the economy when you express concern about returning to face to face instruction during a pandemic and dealing with the attitude of outrage that you express concern for your health, the health of your family, the health of your students and their families. Imagine being subjected to the attitude that, because you are in a public sector job, you have to tolerate disrespect & nod and smile because "my taxes pay your salary".


That is a gross misrepresentation of the discussions that you have participated in on this forum. I cannot speak to whether you have had that happen in real life or other forums, but it does not represent accurately any discussion that I have seen here.


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## GTX63 (Dec 13, 2016)

You are the only one under the gas light. I think most posters here have recognized the non answers and deflection for what it is.


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## TripleD (Feb 12, 2011)

SLFarmMI said:


> Most of the posters would have gotten a different response if they had approached the thread (this and many others) in the spirit of having an open and honest dialogue. But that is not what they did. I am assuming that I am the "advocate for the education status quo" and the fact that you declare I have not been honest and forthcoming is laughable. If you expect I am going to allow the lies, misconceptions and half-truths that many posters like to post about my profession go unchallenged, you are mistaken.


I'm not in the most catagory . I might be technology challenged on this phone but I did say let's compare?


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

SLFarmMI said:


> Most of the posters *would have gotten a different response* if they had approached the thread (this and many others) in the spirit of having an open and honest dialogue.


No, because many have tried that with you on various subjects and it always turns out the same way.

You keep feeding us the same tired lines, thinking we will fall for them like your students do.


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## GTX63 (Dec 13, 2016)

Attached is a copy of the police report. Note the purple highlight where the teacher states the student was "waving around a toy gun".


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## GTX63 (Dec 13, 2016)

A quote from the father-
_“I never thought: ‘You can’t play with a Nerf gun in your own home because somebody may perceive it as a threat and call the police on you,’” Elliott said. Elliott’s son, Isaiah, was later suspended for five days and now has a record with the El Paso County Sheriff’s Office and a mark on his school disciplinary paperwork saying he brought a “facsimile of a firearm to school” — even though he was in his own home doing a virtual class. _


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## SLADE (Feb 20, 2004)

Redlands Okie said:


> Apparently if you have your child learning online then it is looking like the government is controlling what’s in your home or you will be held accountable.
> 
> We do not agree very often but this time it seems we do


I would wonder if allowing schools into your home via internet is a de facto warrant to search your property.


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## GTX63 (Dec 13, 2016)

Parents signing off and allowing live streaming video have now allowed a warrantless backdoor into their homes.
This teacher purposely went above her pay grade and decided privacy is a one way street.
The parents surrendered their 4th amendment rights without a fight (until after the fact) and allowed the government right into their houses to spy on them with no warrant and no cause.
As of today, the teacher is still going about her day on the payroll, continuing to "teach" and observe her students lives and property at home, outside of the physical classroom or school property, thru her own lense.


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## audacity (Feb 14, 2020)

thesedays said:


> Some people believe that if teachers could act that way and get away with it nowadays, a lot of our discipline problems would go away. Doesn't work that way.


Clear abuse is one thing.

But I also think we've tied teachers to a post when it comes to in-class discipline, and that has reached the point of stupidity. I graduated in 2005, before some of the worst restrictions came into place, and even then kids were getting away with truly awful behavior in class that was directed at teachers and subs. 

Teachers aren't allowed to walk opposite-sex kids down a hall anymore. They can't intervene if one student is beating the hell out of another student. They aren't allowed to say anything terse and have to watch what they say, even while kids are screaming obscenities and selectively recording them to create BS narratives. In some cases, teachers are not even allowed to defend themselves if they are being physically assaulted by students.

Honestly, I'm a proponent of revisiting privacy laws that were written before the time of cell phones and start requiring schools to have cameras in every single classroom and in the hallways.






GTX63 said:


> A quote from the father-
> _“I never thought: ‘You can’t play with a Nerf gun in your own home because somebody may perceive it as a threat and call the police on you,’” Elliott said. Elliott’s son, Isaiah, was later suspended for five days and now has a record with the El Paso County Sheriff’s Office and a mark on his school disciplinary paperwork saying he brought a “facsimile of a firearm to school” — even though he was in his own home doing a virtual class. _
> 
> View attachment 90758


 Sounds like it's time to sue the school.


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## Redlands Okie (Nov 28, 2017)

^^^^ yes


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## GTX63 (Dec 13, 2016)

audacity said:


> Honestly, I'm a proponent of revisiting privacy laws that were written before the time of cell phones and start requiring schools to have cameras in every single classroom and in the hallways.
> Sounds like it's time to sue the school.


Well what do you know?
A CORA request was filed (Colorado Open Records Act) likely to gain access to the video, emails, etc. This act requires that most public records be made available to the public.

Note the curious response from the school districts director of communication.


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## GTX63 (Dec 13, 2016)

I have a feeling the comms director knows exactly whats going to happen as they used to be a reporter for the local ABC affiliate before taking on their current role with the school district.


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## GTX63 (Dec 13, 2016)

Here is the response, lol.


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## random (Jul 23, 2020)

I wonder how fast that request will get rerouted...


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## Kstar (Jun 14, 2020)

-sigh- What was he going to do? Shoot his computer? 

The teacher should've at least called the parents first. To just jump to law enforcement is pretty crazy. The teacher even admitted she thought it was a toy.


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## GTX63 (Dec 13, 2016)

No server malfunction yet.
Here is the latest response from the school district's communication officer.

_"I appreciate you sharing that information with me. I believe it is my responsibility to share some background information with you to keep our staff and students safe.

The teacher followed protocol in reporting the incident to her supervisor. The administration took action after that, and we have reached out to the family to discuss how those actions could have been handled differently, how we as a school district can learn from this and make improvements, and to most importantly rebuild trust with the family.

Due to the extensive coverage, the teacher and several of our staff have received death threats. The teachers address has been shared on social media with threats to come to her home and kill her. Again, she was just doing her job to report to her supervisor. We have also had to remove the schools Facebook and the districts Facebook page due to threats, harassment, and bullying.

As I mentioned before, I will have the information you requested tomorrow, but I do hope that you take this into consideration as you report out to your constituents.

Thank you for your time. "_


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## GTX63 (Dec 13, 2016)

And here is the response from the group requesting the documents and media materials.

"_Thank you for the follow up.

As you know, we live in a time that people jump to conclusions/actions and yes, it does put people at risk (there are bad actors out there on all sides waiting to exploit and pounce). People dox and attempt to harm others, which is not acceptable at all. Its dangerous, and what happened to Ms. Selke (threats on her life and home) was hopefully reported to authorities. There is no excuse for it and individuals that do so need to be held accountable for their actions.

The intent of the CORA request is not that in any way/shape/form whatsoever (thus why I made a point to ask to have the redactions in my previous email, which we would have done anyways if they werent done). *As noted in the police report, Ms. Selke admitted to believing that that toy gun was fake from the start*. These types of calls/situations are popping up more and more in the e-learning environment (just happened again a few days ago to an 11 year old in another district in Colorado after the educator went back and reviewed the recorded stream). *Police were called to the students house over an obviously fake toy gun.*

Everyone is under lots of stress due to the new learning environment, and this investigation is not to demonize/attack the teacher or district. Thats not what we do. We focus on lobbying organizations and the actors involved with them (which Ms. Selke is not). It is to see what was said internally about the incident in regards to what was said in the police report. Yes, we have investigated school districts before (in which political lobbying groups and their members were using school resources for non-school related activities), but not for situations like this.

As you stated, with the district working to rebuild trust and learn from this experience in order to adjust responses moving forward, this is something hopefully more people can see and get ahead of these issues before they happen (press is all over them lately). With tensions high all over (and people overreacting to various circumstances, such as sending police to someones home over a toy gun and the response when news breaks of that, which is happening a lot across the country), its clear there are less invasive and less drastic measures that can be taken in order to handle such events when students disrupt an online class when their safety is not in actual danger. Toy guns are legal and many young boys have them, and a students home is not school property (not advocating for playing with them during an e-learning session, that should be devoted to school work, not toys).

Any documents provided will be reviewed and not used for any purposes other than what was said in this email or my prior email. Its to help get information/documents on the incident and report accurately and give the full detail of incidents.

Thank you for the responses and for sharing your warranted concerns. We hold ourselves to ethical standards when doing investigations (telling the truth and when necessary, protecting the individual people involved by redacting/withholding information that could put them at risk). Everything you stated will be taken into consideration before publishing any of it. _


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## GTX63 (Dec 13, 2016)

Our daughter has informed us that several parents in our grandson's old school district have had their children marked "absent" for putting post it notes over the camera. 
She also related to us that a child's parent, put up a curtain behind the kid and they were informed that they had to remove it and give a clear view of the schooling environment, as apparently you must be seated at a desk/table and not in bed or on a couch, and the curtain would not let the teacher verify compliance. 

Privacy issues seem to be a one way street...


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## GunMonkeyIntl (May 13, 2013)

GTX63 said:


> No server malfunction yet.
> Here is the latest response from the school district's communication officer.
> 
> _"I appreciate you sharing that information with me. I believe it is my responsibility to share some background information with you to keep our staff and students safe.
> ...


There’s just so much wrong in that response.

First death threats against the teacher?!?
Sure, they are a self-aggrandizing twit who should be removed from the taxpayer teat immediately, but murdered? People have gone pure stupid.

Second, “the School’s Facebook”?!?
We pay them to teach our children the basic educational building blocks that we, as a society, have decided are critical for any young person to have as a foundation. A single penny or public employee man-second spent on a public school’s “Facebook” is a gross misappropriation of the taxpayers’ dollars.

Third, why does this response even exist?
You want to know “what organization I’m with”? Well, I’m plum tickled that you’d ask, Principle Dippoop. I’m the MFCEO of the Philanthropic Order of YOUR BOSS. Now, quit wasting my time trying to figure out what my angle is, and how to spin the story of your own corruption. Shut up, send me the public files that I own and demanded from you, and get back to work. Don’t like my attitude, find a new employer.


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## GTX63 (Dec 13, 2016)

GunMonkeyIntl said:


> First death threats against the teacher?!?
> Sure, they are a self-aggrandizing twit who should be removed from the taxpayer teat immediately, but murdered? People have gone pure stupid.


Lots of death threats going around everywhere and everyday. I don't question that.
I'll ask you a question or two though-
Do you know of anyone who has threatened to murder another individual, either in person or thru media?
Who feels completely comfortable stating over social media using their profile that they will go to a person's home and kill them?
What would it take for you to threaten taking someone else's life?
Would you threaten someone you don't know about an issue unrelated to you?

I see little concern about the student who now has a mark on their record, a suspension and a police report on file, and moreso the self identification of the school staff as "victims."


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## thesedays (Feb 25, 2011)

There are a lot of trolls and doxxers out there who probably live in their parents' basements, and turn off the porn long enough to do this instead.


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## GunMonkeyIntl (May 13, 2013)

GTX63 said:


> Lots of death threats going around everywhere and everyday. I don't question that.
> I'll ask you a question or two though-
> Do you know of anyone who has threatened to murder another individual, either in person or thru media?
> Who feels completely comfortable stating over social media using their profile that they will go to a person's home and kill them?
> ...


Short answer to your question:

I would never threaten to kill someone. Anyone. 
That aspect, alone, makes a killing a murder. There is something seriously wrong with someone who would commit and murder.


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## GTX63 (Dec 13, 2016)

And I would expect that every user name on the school's facebook page, the teacher's personal social media and phone numbers of those who texted threats would be investigated and prosecuted.
Not purposely trying to sound cynical, but I rarely hear of this happening.


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## random (Jul 23, 2020)

GTX63 said:


> Our daughter has informed us that several parents in our grandson's old school district have had their children marked "absent" for putting post it notes over the camera.
> She also related to us that a child's parent, put up a curtain behind the kid and they were informed that they had to remove it and give a clear view of the schooling environment, as apparently you must be seated at a desk/table and not in bed or on a couch, and the curtain would not let the teacher verify compliance.


Bet they're not assigning 1984 as required reading in those classes.

Frankly that is quite disturbing. I can _almost_ see it with the covered cameras, but the curtain? The space between the curtain and the computer IS the "schooling environment" and what difference does it make _where_ the kid is if they're doing what they're supposed to be doing?


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## Danaus29 (Sep 12, 2005)

random said:


> Bet they're not assigning 1984 as required reading in those classes.


I wouldn't take that bet. _1984_ was banned, oh, about 1984 in my high school. I read it before they removed and burned it.


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## Shrek (May 1, 2002)

random said:


> There have been an increasing number of reports of schools disciplining students for personal activities that have nothing to do with school. Facebook posts and such resulting in suspension. I remember one last year, for example, of a student posting pics of a day at the range, resulted in the same overreaction - police called, administrative action, etc.
> 
> Very serious overreach. Almost like they want to own the kids.


The long arm of school is more like Clyde's from the Every Which Way But Loose movie.


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## Hiro (Feb 14, 2016)

This is nothing new or shocking to many of us, it is just more parents are paying attention and a few "journalists" are writing about it. This has been going on some time.

If you turn your children over to the government to be educated...

Note the date on the column as 2012.


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