# What is SAD



## Skamp

I’d like input on that, what is the Standard American Diet?

Just as important, what is it not?


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## painterswife

Skamp said:


> I’d like input on that, what is the Standard American Diet?
> 
> Just as important, what is it not?


The food pyramid.


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## Skamp

painterswife said:


> The food pyramid.


Duly noted.


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## Belfrybat

painterswife said:


> The food pyramid.


That has been gone for 6 years. The new guidelines are called "My plate". Which is supposed to be an easier representation to understand. Not sure I agree. 
https://www.choosemyplate.gov/MyPlate


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## Belfrybat

To answer the OP. SAD stands for standard American diet and is considered high (empty) carbohydrate, high sugar, and low in whole grains and green/red/yellow vegetables. Basically the opposite of what we should be eating.


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## Sourdough

SAD (Standard ALASKAN Diet) = Moose Meat and Fresh Salmon.........Yummy


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## geo in mi

Fried chicken, mashed potatoes and gravy, green bean casserole, and pie ala mode--and the pie made with the genuine lard crust. Hog heaven.

geo


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## GTX63

The SAD? Generally, processed food like substances encased in foil, waxed cardboard or plastic.
The majority eat processed snacks and meals out of convenience, ignorance or as a reflex.
Eating healthy isn't always easy, the first choice or what everyone around you may be doing. Kind of like choosing good over bad.


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## Oregon1986

The food pyramid which needs redone in my opinion


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## Oregon1986

Belfrybat said:


> That has been gone for 6 years. The new guidelines are called "My plate". Which is supposed to be an easier representation to understand. Not sure I agree.
> https://www.choosemyplate.gov/MyPlate
> View attachment 65433


I'd make the grain portion a lot smaller and veggies a lot bigger


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## Skamp

Belfrybat said:


> To answer the OP. SAD stands for standard American diet and is considered high (empty) carbohydrate, high sugar, and low in whole grains and green/red/yellow vegetables. Basically the opposite of what we should be eating.


Any comment on proteins and fats as related to SAD?


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## Skamp

Sourdough said:


> SAD (Standard ALASKAN Diet) = Moose Meat and Fresh Salmon.........Yummy


Sounds Keto, to the extreme, to me.


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## Skamp

geo in mi said:


> Fried chicken, mashed potatoes and gravy, green bean casserole, and pie ala mode--and the pie made with the genuine lard crust. Hog heaven.
> 
> geo


Only one example? No general commentary?


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## Skamp

Oregon1986 said:


> I'd make the grain portion a lot smaller and veggies a lot bigger


And leave fruits, protein, and dairy at the same proportions?


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## Skamp

GTX63 said:


> The SAD? Generally, processed food like substances encased in foil, waxed cardboard or plastic.
> The majority eat processed snacks and meals out of convenience, ignorance or as a reflex.
> Eating healthy isn't always easy, the first choice or what everyone around you may be doing. Kind of like choosing good over bad.


I’m in your camp, with a few adders, I think. 

There was no recommendation of such in the pyramid or myplate. So where is the disconnect?


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## barnbilder

There is no evil food. It is all good. You just have to adjust the portions so that it fits within your caloric needs. Bread gets a bad rap, and bread is pretty bad for making people fat. A lot of bread is caloricly dense, has a lot of fat along with it's huge carb load, and if you were doing real tracking you would find that around an eighth of a slice per day would be about all you could fit in. All breads are not created equal, and you can even make your own. Add some soy protein isolate and use whole grain flour and you can actually get a decent payload of protein in it. It is still going to have a lot of calories, and you are going to need to eat a little sliver of it instead of half a loaf like most people do. 

It seems the current trend is to blame carbs for all failed weight goals. Carbs have four calories per gram, fats have 9, consume too many calories from either one of them and you will be gaining weight. 

Protein is the key, eat enough protein and you won't lose as much muscle when dieting. Muscle burns more calories than fat. A lean muscular body needs more calories just to maintain itself. People think that age makes you get fat, this is because of muscle loss. You can gain muscle at any age, but it takes hard work and careful meal planning. Exercise is quietly overlooked in most of these nutrition discussions. You can't expect to change your body without being willing to change your body.

A lot of people say they can't exercise. Because of this or that condition. You can go over or around most obstacles, but excuses you can hide behind forever. There is absolutely nothing wrong with the food pyramid. The problem is all of the lazy people that let their bodies get in such bad shape they can't move them. You can't blame the food pyramid for chronic obesity brought on by a steady diet of doritos, debbie cakes and mountain dew. The food pyramid didn't do it.


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## Terri

barnbilder said:


> A lot of people say they can't exercise. Because of this or that condition. You can go over or around most obstacles, but excuses you can hide behind forever. There is absolutely nothing wrong with the food pyramid. The problem is all of the lazy people that let their bodies get in such bad shape they can't move them. You can't blame the food pyramid for chronic obesity brought on by a steady diet of doritos, debbie cakes and mountain dew. The food pyramid didn't do it.


I was agreeing with you until this last paragraph. "Carbohydrate resistance" and "diabetes" are not just words.

Just about the first thing my diabetes dietician said was to "throw out the food pyramid", and she was right.


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## barnbilder

How many people would have diabetes and carbohydrate resistance if they didn't damage their bodies with a bad diet and sedentary lifestyle?


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## Terri

barnbilder said:


> How many people would have diabetes and carbohydrate resistance if they didn't damage their bodies with a bad diet and sedentary lifestyle?


In my case, I got diabetes WHILE following the diet the doctor gave me, and I have NEVER been sedentary. Few homesteaders are.


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## vicki in NW OH

My husband likes to point out that he is slender because he walks a lot at work. He's a nurse supervisor in a long-term care facility with two long halls. He's gained exactly 2 pounds since we got married 35 years ago. He has a 32-inch waist. He eats more than anyone I have ever known. I point out to him that his coworkers who are chubby walk as much as he does and eat less. Not all fat people eat junk and are sedentary.


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## BynatureFarms

Sourdough said:


> SAD (Standard ALASKAN Diet) = Moose Meat and Fresh Salmon.........Yummy


I like that. But up here in Alaska when someone says SAD it usually means Seasonal Affective Disorder. we own a SAD light but we call it a happy light.


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## Belfrybat

Oregon1986 said:


> The food pyramid which needs redone in my opinion


The food pyramid was redone 6 years ago -- it is now "my plate" -- see my message above.


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## wendygoerl

Oregon1986 said:


> I'd make the grain portion a lot smaller and veggies a lot bigger


Don't forget the protein and fat. Fruits, veggies, and grains COLLECTIVELY shouldn't be more than 50%. Paleo, Atkins, and Zone diets would make that figure considerably less.


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## Skamp

wendygoerl said:


> Don't forget the protein and fat. Fruits, veggies, and grains COLLECTIVELY shouldn't be more than 50%. Paleo, Atkins, and Zone diets would make that figure considerably less.


As recommended by myplate, that should be near 3/4 collectively in volume. But, is that the SAD diet?


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## reubenT

Standard American Diet. Coffee and doughnut for breakfast, (or eggs, white bread toast and bacon) McDonalds for lunch, Maybe a steak for dinner. Or whatever hits the palate with pleasure. The heart attack/stroke/diabetes diet. 

The recommended standard diet is much better. But still not the best by far. I'm fed up with everything that's available. Weary of the low quality and processed junk. Even the fresh and whole foods available are way below what they should be in quality. I have to grow my own with terra preta type soil development, advanced mineral feed to the plants, boost the quality to the highest possible level. eat it fresh, unprocessed, vegetarian or vegan, and see what it will do for me.


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## barnbilder

Skamp said:


> As recommended by myplate, that should be near 3/4 collectively in volume. But, is that the SAD diet?


Any diet measured by volume is destined to fail. You could starve or get fat by measuring volume. Weight is the only way to accurately track calories. Caloric deficit, or surplus is the only way to lose or gain body fat.


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## mekasmom

Belfrybat said:


> That has been gone for 6 years. The new guidelines are called "My plate". Which is supposed to be an easier representation to understand. Not sure I agree.
> https://www.choosemyplate.gov/MyPlate
> View attachment 65433


I am old. I remember the basic four.... Meats, fruits/veg/ dairy, and grains.... And they suggest two servings of meat with four servings of each of the others. They change their minds all the time.


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## Skamp

mekasmom said:


> I am old. I remember the basic four.... Meats, fruits/veg/ dairy, and grains.... And they suggest two servings of meat with four servings of each of the others. They change their minds all the time.


I don’t know that “they” change their mind so much, certainly new research can change recommendations though. 

If “they” is the USDA, myplate is offered as a crayon drawing for those not willing, or able, to follow the intinsely researched recommendations for macro and micro profiles. Those are available, for free, in both laymen and medical publications. 

But, I don’t see that as SAD.


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## mnn2501

BynatureFarms said:


> I like that. But up here in Alaska when someone says SAD it usually means Seasonal Affective Disorder. we own a SAD light but we call it a happy light.


That was my first thought when I saw this thread.


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## MichaelZ

I think the SAD refers to what the American diet has become: Lot's of processed foods, heavy on the processed sugars, corn, and soy ingredients. Contrast that to what I grew up on, which was meat, much of it wild game or animals fed a variety of food, fruits and vegetables, most of them home-raised, and breads that were real bread that did not last several months before molding. Most households in my childhood days did not have all kinds of pop available for the kids. There were not even that many packaged foods as there are now, and they were not in my parent's home. Now, meat is raised in confinement, fatty as can be, and raised on corn as opposed to partially pasture raised that my parents bought from neighboring farmers. My diet now, as I deal with prostate cancer, is raw fruit and vegetable, unprocessed grains, spices like curry, cayenne, and ginger, and in general whole foods. My diet is actually a standard diet in some parts of the world - and studies have shown that some cancers are lower in those areas. For example prostate cancer is very low India, where curry is consumed a lot and diet is whole food - see map below.


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## Cabin Fever

Skamp said:


> I’d like input on that, what is the Standard American Diet?
> 
> Just as important, what is it not?


This (diagram below) is not the Standard American Diet, but it is the sustainable lifestyle diet we have been following for the past few months (even though the title says six weeks). We have lost weight, the physicians have removed meds, and we're feeling energized!


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## MichaelZ

Cabin Fever my diet is similar, but to keep my weight up I consume 2-3 tablespoons of olive oil daily along with nuts and avocados to keep my weight up. Also eat oatmeal and brown rice mixed with quinoa. And I have snacks in between meals but they will consist of fruits, nuts, or oatmeal. For me, I basically use no ibuprofen now where as I was taking 200-600 mg almost daily - diet can serve as your medicine!


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## Skamp

MichaelZ said:


> I think the SAD refers to what the American diet has become: Lot's of processed foods, heavy on the processed sugars, corn, and soy ingredients.............


I agree with you in concept. I would just like to add that the processed foods includes cured meats. Bologna, wieners, most sausage, bacon, pepperoni, etc.


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## Skamp

Cabin Fever said:


> This (diagram below..........


What is the significance of the 400,400,400 top right? Just to show relative volume?


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## Terri

It means 400 calories of olive oil, 400 calories of chicken, and 400 calories of vegetables. Which is a bit odd as the diet does not call for chicken: perhaps it is part of a different article?


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## Cabin Fever

Terri said:


> It means 400 calories of olive oil, 400 calories of chicken, and 400 calories of vegetables. Which is a bit odd as the diet does not call for chicken: perhaps it is part of a different article?





Skamp said:


> What is the significance of the 400,400,400 top right? Just to show relative volume?


The comparison is there to simply demonstrate how 400 calories can (or not fill) fill ones stomach. Since the stomach is not full with 400 calories of oil or chicken, one can still feel hungry after eating these and thus may desire to eat more (eg, overeat). Whereas, 400 calories of fruits and vegetables can easily fill ones stomach and reduce the hunger sensation.


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## painterswife

Feeling full is not a good way to decide what and when to eat. It is only part of what satiates you and stops you from being hungry. I could keep my stomach full of water and still be hungry. You are only dealing with sensory part of hunger in that instance. You are not dealing with the hormonal signals your body sends. We also can stretch our stomachs over time so that more and more food is needed if that is how we determine we are hungry.


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## Cabin Fever

painterswife said:


> Feeling full is not a good way to decide what and when to eat. It is only part of what satiates you and stops you from being hungry. I could keep my stomach full of water and still be hungry. You are only dealing with sensory part of hunger in that instance. You are not dealing with the hormonal signals your body sends. We also can stretch our stomachs over time so that more and more food is needed if that is how we determine we are hungry.


Oh for goodness sakes. Let's not focus on the 400 calorie comparison, and do focus on the main message, which is, putting more nutrient-dense (not calorie-dense) whole foods in the American diet.


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## painterswife

Cabin Fever said:


> Oh for goodness sakes. Let's not focus on the 400 calorie comparison, and do focus on the main message, which is, putting more nutrient-dense (not calorie-dense) whole foods in the American diet.


I put lots of low calorie nutrient dense whole foods in my diet. I also include fat and protein from foods that are low carb and low sugar.

You made a statement and I responded to it. The "for goodness sake" really was not needed.


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## Skamp

Cabin Fever said:


> The comparison is there to simply demonstrate how 400 calories can (or not fill) fill ones stomach. Since the stomach is not full with 400 calories of oil or chicken, one can still feel hungry after eating these and thus may desire to eat more (eg, overeat). Whereas, 400 calories of fruits and vegetables can easily fill ones stomach and reduce the hunger sensation.


Masticated fruits, vegetables, and chicken? The representation doesn’t look to be.

This smells of Fuhrman.

What percentage of calories are you getting from sugar per day, in particular the evil Sugar fructose? Where is the B12? If you are generally supplementing, water soluble micros could be an issue and fat solubles could be an issue even if you’re not.

I can’t see it being healthy for six weeks, much less longer.


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## mnn2501

Different diets work for different folks. If its working for Cabin Fever and WIHH - great, I'm happy for them. Not sure it would work for me but I am looking at it.


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## Cabin Fever

Skamp said:


> Masticated fruits, vegetables, and chicken? The representation doesn’t look to be.
> 
> This smells of Fuhrman.
> 
> What percentage of calories are you getting from sugar per day, in particular the evil Sugar fructose? Where is the B12? If you are generally supplementing, water soluble micros could be an issue and fat solubles could be an issue even if you’re not.
> 
> I can’t see it being healthy for six weeks, much less longer.


The B12 is in our multivitamin.

Evil fructose? Geez, I'll have to cut down on the single apple, single orange, single banana, 1/4 cup of blueberries, and handful of strawberries or raspberries I eat per day! Thank for the great advice. LOL

Our bodies probably absorb many more water-soluble and fat soluble nutrients compared to most people because we eat more water-soluble and fat-soluble nutrients compared to most people. If you're worried we don't get enough fat, you stop worrying. We get plenty of fat in the nuts, avocado, and seeds (flax, chia, hemp, and quinoa) we eat on an every day basis.


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## Skamp

Cabin Fever said:


> The B12 is in our multivitamin.
> 
> Evil fructose? Geez, I'll have to cut down on the single apple, single orange, single banana, 1/4 cup of blueberries, and handful of strawberries or raspberries I eat per day! Thank for the great advice. LOL
> 
> Our bodies probably absorb many more water-soluble and fat soluble nutrients compared to most people because we eat more water-soluble and fat-soluble nutrients compared to most people. If you're worried we don't get enough fat, you stop worrying. We get plenty of fat in the nuts, avocado, and seeds (flax, chia, hemp, and quinoa) we eat on an every day basis.


Personally, I can’t see any diet that must be supplemented as a long term valid one without medical supervision. Over indulgence of fat solubles can be an issue, over indulgence of water solubles can be an issue with supplementation. 

Evil fructose was a bit tongue in cheek, those on the pendulum opposite of you dodge it. I’m still curious as to your percentage of calories from it though.


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## Cabin Fever

We don't count calories. Our excess weight is coming off, but perhaps at a slower rate than those on a keto diet.

We see ourselves eating the same way in 10 years as we are eating today. So, we strive to get sufficient calories, even though I couldn't tell you how many we get on a daily basis. Our overarching goal is nutrition, not calories. We eat whole foods that are plant-based. With that said, I am sure we;ll have some seafood, or BBQ brisket, or a piece of cheese now and then on a rare occasion.


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## Terri

Water soluble vitamins are not dangerous: if you take more of them than you should your kidneys simply filters the excess out of the blood and dumps it in the urine.

Fat soluble vitamins CAN be dangerous if taken to excess, which is why you CANNOT by them in concentrated amounts without a prescription. And the multi-vitamin pills only have them in small quantities. Also, you will not get too much fat-soluble vitamins in your system by eating food.

So don't be concerned about getting too many vitamins.


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## Skamp

Terri said:


> Water soluble vitamins are not dangerous: if you take more of them than you should your kidneys simply filters the excess out of the blood and dumps it in the urine.
> 
> Fat soluble vitamins CAN be dangerous if taken to excess, which is why you CANNOT by them in concentrated amounts without a prescription. And the multi-vitamin pills only have them in small quantities. Also, you will not get too much fat-soluble vitamins in your system by eating food.
> 
> So don't be concerned about getting too many vitamins.


I’ll say it again, you can get too much water soluble vitamins if you supplement.

I don’t know of any that are a concern from natural sources but, synthetic and/or processed need to watched.


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## Terri

Skamp said:


> I’ll say it again, you can get too much water soluble vitamins if you supplement.
> 
> I don’t know of any that are a concern from natural sources but, synthetic and/or processed need to watched.


We may need to agree to disagree on this one: the medical profession is not correct about everything. I will say that that bit about excess water soluble vitamins being filtered out of the blood by the kidneys is out of my nursing textbook, and my teacher lectured on it as well.


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## Skamp

Here is some reading. 

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.livestrong.com/amp/article/331397-are-water-soluble-vitamins-toxic/


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## Skamp

barnbilder said:


> Any diet measured by volume is destined to fail. You could starve or get fat by measuring volume. Weight is the only way to accurately track calories. Caloric deficit, or surplus is the only way to lose or gain body fat.



I’ve been waiting on a bit more subtle way to disagree, but it hasn’t come up. 

If that is your view, then you are way too young to know.


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## Skamp

Cabin Fever said:


> .............Our excess weight is coming off, but perhaps at a slower rate than those on a keto diet.........


I feel compelled to make note of this. Why compare to the diametrically opposed? Are they “evil”? Are they ill informed? Are they that far removed in biome?


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## Cabin Fever

Skamp said:


> I feel compelled to make note of this. Why compare to the diametrically opposed? Are they “evil”? Are they ill informed? Are they that far removed in biome?


I have no idea if they are ill-informed or far removed in the biome (whatever that means). I made note of it because there are many on HT who are doing the keto thing and have claimed fantastic results. No there are not evil and I say good for them. 

When you started this thread, I thought you where looking for information. Apparently, you have your mind made up about things. So much for trying to be helpful by providing information on our experiences. Every time I do, people come down on me when I explain the how and why of what we're doing.


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## Skamp

Cabin Fever said:


> I have no idea if they are ill-informed or far removed in the biome (whatever that means). I made note of it because there are many on HT who are doing the keto thing and have claimed fantastic results. No there are not evil and I say good for them.
> 
> When you started this thread, I thought you where looking for information. Apparently, you have your mind made up about things. So much for trying to be helpful by providing information on our experiences. Every time I do, people come down on me when I explain the how and why of what we're doing.



I have an opinion. It is certainly different than yours. I’m not sorry that you feel different, although I do empathize.

This thread is to gather all of the opinions associated with the question. Yours included. Anything else to say?


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## Terri

Skamp I am curious: what is end purpose?


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## Skamp

Terri said:


> Skamp I am curious: what is end purpose?


Where have we come from? Where are we going? Why, on both accounts?


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## Skamp

Terri said:


> We may need to agree to disagree on this one: the medical profession is not correct about everything. I will say that that bit about excess water soluble vitamins being filtered out of the blood by the kidneys is out of my nursing textbook, and my teacher lectured on it as well.


And just to enhance a read, folic acid and folate are not the same. 

Maybe we both can learn?


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## Terri

Skamp said:


> And just to enhance a read, folic acid and folate are not the same.
> 
> Maybe we both can learn?


Did I ever say that it was?

Though, yes, one main point of this forum is so that we can learn from each other.


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## Skamp

Terri said:


> We may need to agree to disagree on this one: the medical profession is not correct about everything. I will say that that bit about excess water soluble vitamins being filtered out of the blood by the kidneys is out of my nursing textbook, and my teacher lectured on it as well.


Did that consider folic acid as a substitute for folate?


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## Terri

Skamp said:


> Did that consider folic acid as a substitute for folate?


Who, the medical profession or the nursing instructor?

I do not know. Folic acid is one form of folate, but when to use what or if the forms are interchangeable or not was not covered.


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## Skamp

“what is end purpose?”



Terri said:


> Who, the medical profession or the nursing instructor?
> 
> I do not know. Folic acid is one form of folate, but when to use what or if the forms are interchangeable or not was not covered.


And that is one of the purposes. Folic acid and folate are different.


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## Skamp

Folic acid = SAD. 

Lol. In a sick sorta way.


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## barnbilder

Skamp said:


> I’ve been waiting on a bit more subtle way to disagree, but it hasn’t come up.
> 
> If that is your view, then you are way too young to know.


Teach us oh magical wizard whose mere whim can change the laws of physics. If you don't weigh your food, and track the calories therein, you don't have a clue what you are eating, how well your diet is working, or anything else nutritionally related. You might weigh yourself and think you know, but you might have cancer or need a good worming.

Possibly, after a good bit of calorie tracking, leading to intuitive eating habits tailored to a personal fitness training program, you might rely on the mirror, bathroom scale and personal compliments about how great your abs look. Instead of actual food weighing and calorie tracking. You should know if you are there yet. If you are not there, a gram scale and a fitness tracking app are your friends.


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## Skamp

“The New Newtonian Diet”, has a nice ring, huh? Someone should write a book. 

You don’t have to be able to solve integrals, or even understand F=ma to eat proper. Ratio and proportion is a very simple method to use. Ratio up if you need to gain, ratio down to lose, 1:1 if things are where they should be. You can accomplish that simple enough by watching portions by whatever means. A nine inch dinner plate is an easy one for those needing to drop some mass. 

A finer point is a micro/macro balance. If granny didn’t pass it down to you, as well as the nine inch dinner plates, then maybe you do need to reference some thermodynamic theory and it’s applications as well as read labels. 

Labels=SAD


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## Alice In TX/MO

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2367001/


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## Skamp

Alice In TX/MO said:


> https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2367001/


I’ll take that is what SAD is not? You are a bit vague.


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## Alice In TX/MO

Just research. 

Who is the podcaster you linked to?


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## Alice In TX/MO

Ah. Never mind. He isn’t a research scientist or a doctor. 

He is, however, a nice nutritionist who presents his thoughts and opinions without being offensive.


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## Skamp

Alice In TX/MO said:


> https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2367001/


Definitely not SAD but, there could be some parallels. 

I had to take time to read the entire article. I’ve read much of it previously, maybe the article proper. 

Keto for brain desease, with the associated damage is not recommended anywhere in the article for self induced Keto for weight loss. In fact, many downfalls are pointed out, and the fact that a team of clinicians are recommended when used. 

I find it quite ironic that the reference to Alzheimer’s uses the hair of the dog that bit you. 

A 50% or less rate of efficacy, for an explicit issue in youngsters, in the 1920’s? And you carry that to the adult without the associated issue for a different outcome?

The pendulum is way too far off.

Terrific article. Inbred mice, fasting monkeys, and neurons are always interesting.


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## Alice In TX/MO

Honey, you are making random connections. I did not apply the treatment of child epilepsy to adult obesity or diabetes. I was simply pointing out the research history.

Other, more recent, research on other conditions is readily available.

You are right!! It is very interesting. I like reading the research documents and pondering about science and medicine. We don’t know all there is to know. These articles are the Oregon Trail in our search.


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## Skamp

Alice In TX/MO said:


> Honey, you are making random connections. I did not apply the treatment of child epilepsy to adult obesity or diabetes. I was simply pointing out the research history.
> 
> Other, more recent, research on other conditions is readily available.
> 
> You are right!! It is very interesting. I like reading the research documents and pondering about science and medicine. We don’t know all there is to know. These articles are the Oregon Trail in our search.



Sugar pie, I fail to see an explicit connection to SAD. 

If there is an explicit connection to your diet, please elaborate. 

Otherwise, I read a clinical study that was based on treatment that was less than 50% effective for a given neurological disorder. Is that a random conclusion?


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## Alice In TX/MO

I didn’t say it was related to SAD. You assumed that no one ever posts on the wrong thread and decides to just leave it. 

Bless your heart. 

I simply posted the research. I am not a research scientist, and I haven’t stayed in a Motel 6 recently.


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## Skamp

Alice In TX/MO said:


> I didn’t say it was related to SAD. You assumed that no one ever posts on the wrong thread and decides to just leave it.
> 
> Bless your heart.
> 
> I simply posted the research. I am not a research scientist, and I haven’t stayed in a Motel 6 recently.



Lol. 

You just don’t want to face the facts. 

I don’t necessarily like this, but the opposite ends of the bell curve dodge, bob, and weave. How can we learn the fringe benefits?


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## Alice In TX/MO

Sugar, you are assuming again. Bad habit. There may be a program for that.

I posted the facts, aka research. I am not trying to persuade you about anything.

I have no interest in bell curve red herrings. The waters at the ends of the curve are too shallow for their survival.


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## Skamp

(Content Deleted*)


*Deleted content is pot-stirring. Edited by Terri 4-7-18 at 730 PM


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## Skamp

Skamp said:


> (Content Deleted*)
> 
> 
> *Deleted content is pot-stirring. Edited by Terri 4-7-18 at 730 PM



Lol


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## Skamp

I get the supporter angle, money talks. What I don’t get is fact based discussion quelled.


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## Terri

Skamp said:


> What I don’t get is fact based discussion quelled.


Fact based discussion is NOT quelled, as long as it is presented with the courtesy that HT expects


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## Skamp

Terri said:


> Fact based discussion is NOT quelled, as long as it is presented with the courtesy that HT expects


It appears, to me, that a mod based diet is preferred. Run the ship your way. Steer them to your course. 

Happy yo-yo.


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## Terri

Skamp said:


> It appears, to me, that a mod based diet is preferred. Run the ship your way. Steer them to your course.
> 
> Happy yo-yo.


 I do not believe that anybody here is following my own diet, other than myself.

As always, you are expected to be polite to people who have opinions that you do not share.


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## Skamp

Again, I get the supporter thing. I really, really do.


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## barnbilder

Skamp, it is time for you to just get along with everyone by agreeing with what they say. As for myself, I will hold to the scientifically sound opinion that any diet, be it Mediteranean, Atkins, Keto, SAD, or whatever new fad comes along, that is responsible for making someone lose weight, does so because it creates a caloric deficit.


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## Skamp

barnbilder said:


> Skamp, it is time for you to just get along with everyone by agreeing with what they say. As for myself, I will hold to the scientifically sound opinion that any diet, be it Mediteranean, Atkins, Keto, SAD, or whatever new fad comes along, that is responsible for making someone lose weight, does so because it creates a caloric deficit.


That’ll be the day. 

I’m basically with you on the cal in- cal out, I just have some seasonal adjustments that I make.

I honestly worry about the fads here. Here, of all places, a well balanced diet without the supplements should be forefront and attainable.


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## Skamp

Wait a minute, maybe I can explain. 

Iffin you’re fat, sloth, and generally disinterested, slighting the carbs may help. That’s kinda, sorta, me Jan-March. But that’s still a 30% or better take. My take on sloth is likely where the divide may come. I find it hard to get my necessary vitamins and minerals during that period. 

Otherwise the carbs are welcomed fuel, and the vitamins and minerals flow.


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## Alice In TX/MO

Just so no one jumps to the wrong conclusion, years ago when the board changed ownership, making a donation was an option. I donated ONCE. It doesn’t endow me with special privileges.


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## Skamp

Alice In TX/MO said:


> Just so no one jumps to the wrong conclusion, years ago when the board changed ownership, making a donation was an option. I donated ONCE. It doesn’t endow me with special privileges.



It’s nice to hear some above board honesty.


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## painterswife

Alice In TX/MO said:


> Just so no one jumps to the wrong conclusion, years ago when the board changed ownership, making a donation was an option. I donated ONCE. It doesn’t endow me with special privileges.


It says I am a supporter and I never gave a penny. All older members got that when they were doing some software stuff way back.


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## Skamp

painterswife said:


> It says I am a supporter and I never gave a penny. All older members got that when they were doing some software stuff way back.


 So the deception goes deeper than a few pictures and links. 

I love learning moments.


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## painterswife

Skamp said:


> So the deception goes deeper than a few pictures and links.
> 
> I love learning moments.


What deception? 
"The Supporting Member is one that was here either one of two ways.

1. There were many who's member status was changed to that about 15 months ago, right after the site changed to being part of the Group Builder group of forums. The active members for a time frame chosen got that status. These received larger pm boxes, larger avatars and profile photos.

or 

2. They paid to become a Supporting member of the forum as shown in the link to become a Supporting member.
http://www.homesteadingtoday.com/faq.php?faq=supporting#faq_supportingmembership

These icons are on most of the Austin's forums.
And they are to identify Admin, Mods and Supporting Members. In most places they are considered a badge of honor. And many people here may not care or consider them a badge of honor also. And a few may not."

https://www.homesteadingtoday.com/threads/forum-spporter-graphic.514018/


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## HeavyHauler

barnbilder said:


> How many people would have diabetes and carbohydrate resistance if they didn't damage their bodies with a bad diet and sedentary lifestyle?


I have type 1 diabetes; genetics, not poor food choices. I have also never been sedentary.

In fact, when I got diabetes; I was biking several km's everyday, multiple times a day. From one end of the city to the other. To high school, to friend's houses, to work and back home.

I started losing weight like crazy. I went from 160-170 down to 90lbs in a couple weeks. I was pissing constantly, drinking water constantly and puked a lot.

My blood sugar was high. I was 14 and close to death. The 1st doctor said it was a stomach virus and didn't do any tests. 2nd doctor checked for diabetes, I was so dehydrated despite drinking liters and liters of water a day; I had to do a urine test, because my veins were collapsing.

It ended up being type 1 diabetes. I got it shortly after my 14th birthday. I'm nearly 29 now and have been eating healthy since.

Type 1 can't be reversed (apparently), but type 2 can. Those with type 2 should do everything in their power to reverse it, because it can lead to having to take insulin for the rest of your life.

So yeah, your question doesn't really work.


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## HeavyHauler

SAD= ****ty American Diet.

We're on a Homesteading forum, everyone hear should be growing and raising their own food, right? Not buying most of their food from the grocery store.

Grow organically, and use compost, worm castings, rock dust, manure, mulch, etc. All provide nutrition/trace minerals to the plants you're growing and eventually consuming, which means no need for multivitamins that actually don't absorb for the most part and means buying less crappy food from the grocery store.

Eat what you grow/raise, and you'll be far healthier and happier.


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## painterswife

HeavyHauler said:


> I have type 1 diabetes; genetics, not poor food choices. I have also never been sedentary.
> 
> In fact, when I got diabetes; I was biking several km's everyday, multiple times a day. From one end of the city to the other. To high school, to friend's houses, to work and back home.
> 
> I started losing weight like crazy. I went from 160-170 down to 90lbs in a couple weeks. I was pissing constantly, drinking water constantly and puked a lot.
> 
> My blood sugar was high. I was 14 and close to death. The 1st doctor said it was a stomach virus and didn't do any tests. 2nd doctor checked for diabetes, I was so dehydrated despite drinking liters and liters of water a day; I had to do a urine test, because my veins were collapsing.
> 
> It ended up being type 1 diabetes. I got it shortly after my 14th birthday. I'm nearly 29 now and have been eating healthy since.
> 
> Type 1 can't be reversed (apparently), but type 2 can. Those with type 2 should do everything in their power to reverse it, because it can lead to having to take insulin for the rest of your life.
> 
> So yeah, your question doesn't really work.


Yes some of us have not been exacting in saying we are talking about type 2 diabetes. So for clarification. No one is saying that Keto can help type 1.


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## Alice In TX/MO

Yessum, they are different disease processes. Good point and appreciated clarification.


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## HermitJohn

painterswife said:


> Yes some of us have not been exacting in saying we are talking about type 2 diabetes. So for clarification. No one is saying that Keto can help type 1.


*Dr. Richard K. Bernstein is a type one diabetic and claims low carb plus regular exercise, can help a type one. NOT CURE IT! But can reduce amount insulin needed. He has written least couple books. Interesting read whether you are type one or two. His is a very vigorous strict lifestyle and I imagine few could follow completely in his footsteps. If you could no doubt it would help type one or two.*

*Type one, your pancreas simply doesnt produce enough insulin. You will always need injected insulin. Type two, you have normal amount insulin, but your liver isnt doing its part (usually non-alcoholic fatty liver disease) and the pancreas maxes out insulin production but cant make up the difference. You body goes into panic over the high blood sugar.*

*You can control type2 through diet, regain much better blood sugar control, but despite many claims, not thinking you can completely reverse it. Whole lot easier if you deal with it in the pre-diabetes stage but nobody takes this serious until they actually get full blown type2. Believe me that gets your attention.*

*And its not just those eating SAD or garbage foods. I ate very clean diet, no junk food, no excess sugar, it was a high WHOLE grain diet that was my downfall, cause it was cheap and convenient, grains store long time so less annoying shopping. Unfortunately its a HIGH CARB DIET. Fattened me up just like livestock fattened on grain for market. That plus low activity from going undiagnosed with Rocky Mountain Spotted Fever for decade (its like LYME and will grind you down if untreated) and voila type2.*

*I was kinda unique because of my clean diet, I didnt have high cholesterol. Surprised heck out of the doc. Most type2 have usual SAD diet symptoms of high cholesterol and high blood pressure. My blood pressure was slightly high when first diagnosed with type2 cause of the stress my body was going through. I had normal healthy blood pressure within a month of getting blood sugar under control with insulin injections. No drugs needed. again doc was surprised, usually this is a big battle with lot prescriptions. Went off insulin within couple months after that. Many type2 have continual battles with cholesterol and blood pressure, besides dealing with blood sugar. *


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## reneedarley

Can anyone clarify for me please. If a person has his pancreas removed, does he have diabetes 1 or 2? I presume it is 2 but that a ketos diet will not help him?


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## HermitJohn

reneedarley said:


> Can anyone clarify for me please. If a person has his pancreas removed, does he have diabetes 1 or 2? I presume it is 2 but that a ketos diet will not help him?


Your pancreas is what produces insulin. You cant live without insulin. No functional pancreas means you are definitely type one. You can read the Dr. Bernstein book I mentioned in post above, but at most it might slightly lower amount insulin you otherwise would need and smooth out some of bumps, it wont eliminate need for insulin. You will always need to inject insulin. A low carb diet wont grow you a new pancreas.

Now back before injected insulin was available there were some theorizing about a 100% fat diet for type one, no carbs, no protein. But experiments unsuccessful. Back then type one was a "dead man walking" kind of diagnosis.


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## Terri

reneedarley said:


> Can anyone clarify for me please. If a person has his pancreas removed, does he have diabetes 1 or 2? I presume it is 2 but that a ketos diet will not help him?


What Hermit John said.

Having a pancreas removed means you will be on insulin the rest of your life, and you are a type 1 diabetic.

Type 2 diabetes can be improved through diet, not necessarily cured through diet. It depends on the person, the person's weight, and the severity of the disease.


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## reneedarley

Thanks for the information. I did realise that the man would need insulin all his life but wondered if a special diet could help.


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## Terri

A careful diet will help keep his blood sugar steady, which will prevent a variety of illness such as high blood pressure and heart disease.

He has my sympathy.


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## HeavyHauler

painterswife said:


> Yes some of us have not been exacting in saying we are talking about type 2 diabetes. So for clarification. No one is saying that Keto can help type 1.


I don't believe a Keto diet is truly that healthy. 

I found reason to believe that meat/fat can be a cause to getting diabetes and not carbs.

I watched an interesting documentary on it, can't remember the name of it. But the host called the national diabetic group and asked why they suggested meat and what not to diabetics, when it had been "shown" to have a negative effect. Something about blocking the blood vessels with the fat and not allowing carbs to be fully processed by the body.

An all vegetable/fruit diet was suggested. Honestly, I couldn't do it for the 2 weeks that they suggested. I love my meat, and cheese way too much.

But I'm thinking about trying it again and giving it a few months, just to see how it affects my blood sugar levels.

I read a story about a man in the UK who "cured" his type 1 by marathon running. Had the tests done and everything. But of course, it was on the internet and must be taken with a grain of salt.

I'm willing to do almost anything to be rid of it.


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## HeavyHauler

I forgot to say, the diabetic group refused to answer that man's question.


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## painterswife

HeavyHauler said:


> I don't believe a Keto diet is truly that healthy.
> 
> I found reason to believe that meat/fat can be a cause to getting diabetes and not carbs.
> 
> I watched an interesting documentary on it, can't remember the name of it. But the host called the national diabetic group and asked why they suggested meat and what not to diabetics, when it had been "shown" to have a negative effect. Something about blocking the blood vessels with the fat and not allowing carbs to be fully processed by the body.
> 
> An all vegetable/fruit diet was suggested. Honestly, I couldn't do it for the 2 weeks that they suggested. I love my meat, and cheese way too much.
> 
> But I'm thinking about trying it again and giving it a few months, just to see how it affects my blood sugar levels.
> 
> I read a story about a man in the UK who "cured" his type 1 by marathon running. Had the tests done and everything. But of course, it was on the internet and must be taken with a grain of salt.
> 
> I'm willing to do almost anything to be rid of it.


 Research Dr Fung. Read his new book on diabetes. Watch his videos. He is a Canadian doctor with quite a bit of success in treating diabetes 2. https://idmprogram.com/


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## Terri

HeavyHauler said:


> I forgot to say, the diabetic group refused to answer that man's question.


I have a pretty good idea of what the group was getting at.

Will fat block a person's arteries? Yes.

Will high blood sugar cause triglycerides, which ALSO block arteries? Also yes.

When you have diabetes, good blood sugar control will greatly lower your risk of heart trouble. Speaking for myself, and ONLY speaking for myself, more lean meats helped me to get my blood sugar under control. That means my risk of heart trouble is greatly reduced.

Your mileage may vary. Because if a diabetic cannot stabilize their blood sugar, then they are at risk of heart disease regardless of whether they eat meat or not.


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## Cabin Fever

HeavyHauler said:


> An all vegetable/fruit diet was suggested. Honestly, I couldn't do it for the 2 weeks that they suggested. I love my meat, and cheese way too much.


If you're interested in learning what dozens of doctors and health experts from around the country are saying about how diet can help with diabetes (as well as cardiovascular disease) including reversing these diseases, give a listen to some of the webinars at the site below.

The Diabetes Summit


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## Cabin Fever

From what I've learned most methods of weight loss - including gastric sleeve surgery and gastic bypass surgery - can result in "curing" Type 2 diabetes. It's just that some methods of weight loss involve more risks than others, as well as, more negative health implications.


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## Alice In TX/MO

More about Type 2 Diabetes. Dr. Fung


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## vicki in NW OH

Dr. Westman at Duke has quite a few videos on low carb/keto and diabetes/weight loss.
https://www.google.com/search?q=dr+...367aAhUL7oMKHQ_IDmQQ_AUICygC&biw=1366&bih=654


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## Skamp

I find it very interesting that the lastest posts turned to diabetes. 

I hypothesize;

Diabetics are looking for cures, or at least sustainable maintenance. 

Diabetics are a disproportionate volume of this board, or at least this thread. 

Diabetics were not intimate with their diet until diagnosis. 

Dietbetics like the hereditary angle, they conveniently ignore the nurture angle. 

Dietbetics are spreading information that may, or may not, be healthy for a damaged system to all. 

Diabetics grab, and hold onto, any snake oil salesman coming and going.


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## painterswife

I am not diabetic. I have learned though how the North Americadiet leads easily to diabetes.


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## Skamp

painterswife said:


> I am not diabetic. I have learned though how the North Americadiet leads easily to diabetes.


And that’s a discussion that needs to be addressed. That’s the reason for the original post.


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## Nsoitgoes

I am a diabetic. I have always eaten real food, cooked from scratch. My mother always cooked fresh, real food from scratch. I have raised my own food for years. I have no idea why my diabetes occurred, only that it did. Many of my immediate family were diabetics. That may, or may not, suggest some genetic component. 

My way of eating maintains all my blood values within normal limits, that is all the proof I need as to its efficacy. Whether anyone else approves of my choice or not is of no consequence whatsoever.


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