# Ewe in trouble?



## Hawkfamily (Jul 13, 2004)

I hope you can help me out or at least guide us to help....

Our ewe is due to have lambs any day now.... Just now, when we checked on her, we noticed her water bag hanging out, but still intact.
She doesn't appear to be in labour - is still breathing normally and is sitting chewing her cud. The lambs have not dropped; still appear up very high.
What should we do?? Will this bag break on its own now? Or do we need to be breaking it? Should we be calling a vet. 
She has had singles twice before - in the past two years - and had no real problems with birth.

Also, we have some pitocin tablets here (vaginal ones). Are ewes given pitocin to assist with their labour, in certain situations?

Thanks
I'll stay in contact here...
I appreciate any help you can give.
Jodi


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

Dont do anything but watch for now. 
Ewes have been doing this without help for thousands of years


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## Ross (May 9, 2002)

Sounds pretty normal to me. They don't always appear to drop thier lambs before birth. Leave the water sac alone it's done its job and is irrelevant now. I she hasn't lambed in a couple of hours or seems overly restless (gettign up and down or pushing and getting no where) then you might wan to ensure she's dilated and/or not trying to pass a breech birthed lamb, or tangled twins etc. Been a long day so hopefully someone else will check out this thread and ofer some complete advice. I'm sorry to say I'm absolutley wiped.


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## mawalla (Oct 28, 2002)

I'd just keep an eye on her and not give her anything. Once the water bag presents it could be up to an hour before she delivers. It doesn't sound like she is in distress so that is a good sign.


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## Hawkfamily (Jul 13, 2004)

Okay - so the water bag was actually broken, although there were two little sacs of water hanging out. But, it has been at least 5 hours now since that happened. She is having contractions that do seem to be escalating. She is still super calm and doing really well, handling each contraction....
How long should I just be waiting?
And, it is after 11 pm here now.... should I just go to bed for the night? Dh is up at 4 am. Or should I be checking on her every 20 minutes or every hour?
What do you guys do in this situation? (and I'm not going to sleep in our barn, although I know that some of you likely do.... lol)


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## thequeensblessing (Mar 30, 2003)

Any news this morning?


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## eieiomom (Jun 22, 2005)

Sorry I haven't seen the post till now.
I hope you have gone in and pulled the lambs, if not, scrub and lube up and get your hands in there. Either she didn't dialate or the lambs are too big, or turned the wrong direction.


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## mawalla (Oct 28, 2002)

You ask what we would do in this situation... Me, I would have gone in to check what was going on after an hour or two of the water sack showing if there still were no lambs. After waiting 5 hours the chances that you will deliver live lambs may be very slim. I wouldn't be sleeping in the barn in this situation, I'd have been helping my ewe deliver her lambs. If I got into a situation that was over my head, I'd call my vet.


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## eieiomom (Jun 22, 2005)

Hey Jodi,

What's happening ?


Deb


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## Hawkfamily (Jul 13, 2004)

We got lucky is what happened. We are considering ourselves blessed this time around and will definitely do things differently the next time. 
She didn't ever dilate. It wasn't her water bag that was hanging out of her - it was her afterbirth! (and the waterbag). We called the emergency vet in and he wasn't hopeful - neither were we. We had pretty much figured that we lost the babies at that point. It had been about 16 hours, we figure, AT LEAST, since her water broke. 
She was so NOT in distress though. She wasn't in labour even really. She was eating away and chewing her cud, as though nothing was going on.
The vet came in early early this morning, went in up to his elbow, was shocked to feel movement from the lambs and pulled out a sweet baby girl and a beautiful baby boy, much to mom's squirming! 
So, she had ring womb. The vet figures possibly/probably due to calcium deficiency. (but from overeating/increase in her grain in the past two weeks as we prepared her for birthing. Does this sound right to you guys?). He did say that they aren't really sure why the cervix doesn't dilate, particularly when she's been a good birther for us in the past.
He has never ever ever in his history/experience had live babies come out of a situation where the afterbirth has preceded the lambs like this. He can not explain why they are alive. He figures they should never have made it.
I am thrilled. They are doing just fine. 
Thank you for your advice last night everybody and your curiousity today. I'm interested in your opinions on this - do you all give your ewes a shot of calcium at birthing? We have been recommended to give her 60 cc if she appears fine, but 120 cc if she is lethargic, etc...
Jodi


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## eieiomom (Jun 22, 2005)

Jodi,

I am so happy for you and relieved the lambs were still alive....amazed actually.
Your vet sounds fantastic (where are you located?), everything makes lots of sense. 
Been there with the calcium imbalance (Calcium/phosphorus ratio is off).
I had a year like that due to the hay we had been feeding. Ended up injecting lots of ewes that year with calcium as they just stopped contracting. Luckily too, I now have an excellent vet to guide me through the knowledge I have acquired.

You too have learned a lot and it will definitely be a huge step in your shepherd experience !

If you have another ewe do that, you might consider giving the rest of the gals calcium upon the onset of labor.

Once again, congrats on your new sweet babies 


Deb


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## Hawkfamily (Jul 13, 2004)

Hey Deb
We're in BC, Canada. It's nice to hear that the vet is on the right track for us.
Yes, the vet has suggested giving the calcium shot at the onset of labour - that was the recommendation of 60 cc if active and fine, and 120 cc if lethargic.
In your experience, then, does the cervix start to dilate and things just progress along from there??
Have they ever considered that this occurs with humans too? and that a shot of calcium would help our labour progress, too? I didn't dilate with my first, and had an emergency section after 26 hours. I would have happily tried a shot of calcium at some point in that ridiculous journey!
Jodi


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## Liese (Dec 12, 2005)

Wow, what an experience for you and a learning experience for the rest of us!


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## Ross (May 9, 2002)

I've had sheep with ring womb and so far as I've read the reasons are still uncertain. I changed nothing and do nothing deliberately different but we see virtually none now. Oddly our prolapse problems disappeared too. Hmmmmmm we did start docking tails longish for that result.


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## eieiomom (Jun 22, 2005)

Calcium is required to produce muscle contractions, uterine contractions are dependent upon adequate levels of calcium. If there are low levels of calcium then the ewe may not produce enough contractions for birthing.

Not sure about ringwomb, when it does occur here it seems only to the occasional ewe, lambing for the first time.

Not sure if there is correlation with the combined experience.
Good question for the vet.


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

It would be much easier to add feed grade limestone to their rations a few weeks before lambing than to try and give them injections when they start to lamb.

They often have calcium deficiencies a few weeks before lambing because the fetuses are taking up so much room that they cant eat enough to meet the demands.

The lime is cheap if you can get it locally. The shipping costs more than the product itself


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## Hawkfamily (Jul 13, 2004)

Okay - so the lambs aren't doing so hot. They aren't feeding from mom and aren't very strong. We tubed them a few times yesterday, milking mom, and had them inside to keep them warm. They were mildly hypothermic. I brought them back out to mom overnight, in the hopes that they would nurse, but this morning, it is apparent that they haven't. They were pretty cold. We have brought them back inside, given them another feeding from mom's milk and have warmed them up again. Their temps are up to 102.5 and 102.9. But, they still seem weak. They are just sleeping a lot. 
It is time for another feed - it's been about 2.5 hours since the last one.
Do we bring them back to mom ? or do we continue feeding them? At what point, do we accept that we have bummer lambs? Or how do we just keep trying with mom without compromising them??
It isn't mom's issue that they aren't eating - she is standing nice and still for them, with her legs apart, and giving them every opportunity to eat. They just won't.
Should we continue to tube them for feedings? - I didn't want to ruin their chances of successfully attaching to mom and sucking by offering them a bottle or even a syringe.
They are 28 hours old now.
We don't want to make unnecessary work for ourselves and would rather they be with their mom obviously. Where do you all make the decision to just raise them yourself?

Do you think there's a chance that the ewe's water bag broke prematurely and that the lambs are a bit premature? ..that this is why she never dilated or went into labour yesterday? 

Such a fragile thing.... this farming....

Jodi


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## kirsten (Aug 29, 2005)

Also, just adding to their diet 2 weeks before lambing is not adequate time. You must add to it at least 4 weeks before and preferably 6. Also switching to alfalfa hay the last month of gestation will help with calcium and adequate minerals set out as well.


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## Hawkfamily (Jul 13, 2004)

Just wanted to update this thread specifically - both lambs died yesterday.
There is more information on the "watery mouth" thread.


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## Hawkfamily (Jul 13, 2004)

Ross - in your earlier post, you mentioned you started docking tails longish for that result... what does this mean?


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## RandB (Aug 13, 2002)

Sorry you lost those lambs - but it was probably due to problems from the bad circumstances of their birth - not anything you did wrong. 
I think what Ross might be referring to with the docking comment is that there is a theory that docking ewes all the way up to the end of the spine, as has always been popular with show sheep, makes ewes more prone to prolapse and birthing problems, the idea being that when the tail is removed all the way up, you also remove important muscles that come into play when they are pushing out lambs. Our sheep aren't "show" sheep, so we always leave some tail length, especially on the ewe lambs. Personally I like to leave just enough to cover their "private parts". I think nature intended the tails for this reason.


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## Hawkfamily (Jul 13, 2004)

Thanks RandB. We can't help but try to figure it all out and see what we can change for next time. I know that intervening and getting those babies out quicker will definitely be something we do differently.
Oh yeah, the tail docking thing makes sense now. We leave them long enough to cover their "private parts" too.


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