# Oil with diesel mix :)



## Wisconsin Ann (Feb 27, 2007)

Well, here we go. Going to try 1/2 waste veggie oil mixed in with the diesel in our 1995 F250. filtering the WVO to 5 micron. 

Anyone try this or have thoughts?

the filtered WVO was supposed to be just for our listeroid, but dang....at almost $3.00 a gallon for diesel and getting a whopping 15mpg with the truck....


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## Dahc (Feb 14, 2006)

I wouldn't try that until you have done some research. Not all diesels are so forgiving after mixing strange fuels in them. I know my yanmar tractor, your lister and a few others will but I'm not sure I'd try it on the family vehicle until I found out for sure.


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## SolarGary (Sep 8, 2005)

Hi,

I passed your question on to a friend who is very familiar with both biodiesel and veggie oil for cars. He runs the local biodiesel outlet and has converted all of his cars to run on straight vegetable oil. His answer:

There are lot of people that do this and I think if you start with
non-hydrogenated (high grade, $$$) oil and only do it in the summer, AND
only go for longer trips so the engine is at full operating temp, then it
MIGHT be ok. The trouble with these experiments is it takes 250k miles to
prove it works. People do it for 5k and start proclaiming success. 


He also points out that if you do the conversion, you could use 100% veggie oil and save the cost of the conversion in a couple years.

I would also look at the JourneyToForever.org website.

The conversions heat the veggie oil up to the point that it has about the same viscosity as diesel by the time it gets to the engine -- this may be important, and you won't be doing this if you just add the veggie oil to the diesel.

Gary


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## Jim-mi (May 15, 2002)

You will need to "Mix well". You could be looking for a hard time if you were to just dump a big glob of veggie oil into the tank . . . . .and then trying to cold-start.

How well have you "dewatered" your WVO . . . . .??


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## Wisconsin Ann (Feb 27, 2007)

Thanks for the advice and info. The WVO is well filtered and dewatered, so that's okay.

conversion....yup. should do that. ah well. It shouldn't be too hard on this truck. 2 tanks....could make sure the second line (for the WVO) goes in after the filter (so that doesn't get gummed up) and use something to preheat the oil.

Might just be better all around to keep making biodiesel on a larger scale.

oh...the idea is to use the pure diesel tank to start up and run for 5 to 10 minutes to warm everything up, and then switch over to the mixed tank. Then, when ready to turn off for the night (or more than a couple of hours) to switch back to the pure diesel tank for the last couple miles to clear out the oil from the area.


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## oz in SC (May 13, 2002)

Wisconsin Ann said:


> Well, here we go. Going to try 1/2 waste veggie oil mixed in with the diesel in our 1995 F250. filtering the WVO to 5 micron.
> 
> Anyone try this or have thoughts?
> 
> the filtered WVO was supposed to be just for our listeroid, but dang....at almost $3.00 a gallon for diesel and getting a whopping 15mpg with the truck....


Yes I tried it.

Yes it works,at least for me.
1998 1/2 Dodge 24 valve Cummins.

Be prepared to change out your fuel filter on the truck however and buy the filters in bulk to save money.I know a fuel filter for my truck from the auto parts place was something like $25 each.However buying online I could get them for less than $16 shipped to my door.


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## greg273 (Aug 5, 2003)

On what sort of scale are you making biodiesel now? I have found it takes about the same time/effort to make large batches as it does small ones, so larger is usually better. Right now, I make 30 gallons at a time, which is about all I feel comfortable with using my present mixing tank.


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## Wisconsin Ann (Feb 27, 2007)

*Oz*: cool. glad to know about the filters...I figured it would need checking WAY more often.

*Greg*: small batches now...but I'm looking at making the 55 gallon drum batch maker.  It's the WASHING the stuff that drives me batty.  I'm thinking about a couple barrels for storage, and a one day a month "okay...today is biodiesel making day". All our vehicles use diesel and with a 120mile round trip to work every day it adds up.


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## bumpus (Jul 30, 2003)

.
Better take a sample of your oil and diesel mix, ( mix it good ) and put it in a jar and see if it separates after sitting for a few days.

If it separates it will not work.

It can also mess up your injectors, and fuel pump, 
and maybe your warranty if you have one.

bumpus
.


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## oz in SC (May 13, 2002)

The reason I was told you end up changing the fuel filters more is the WVO cleans out all the gunk from the system,it doesn't seem to be as often nowadays as when I first started using a blend.

You might also look into adding regular gasoline(do a search for RUG) into the blend,supposedly helps in lowering the viscosity which is the biggest problem with WVO,it is SO thick compared to diesel.

Good luck.


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## bumpus (Jul 30, 2003)

.
Gasoline is to dangerous to mix with diesel fuel and it does get hotter as time goes on when you drive down the road, and becomes more flammable.

Diesels fuel fires on compression and gasoline work like either which will blow your motor up.

bumpus
.


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## oz in SC (May 13, 2002)

http://biodiesel.infopop.cc/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/159605551/m/155102319?r=637104319



> Here ya go, greenoil. I just posted this a couple of days ago, in reply to another post, but it's worth repeating. I think all your questions are answered below, except one, and I'll answer that one now.... The thing that makes diesel people freak out about putting RUG into a diesel is the lack of lubricity. If you over dilute any diesel fuel with enough gasoline, you will probably toast your mechanical injection pump, and it will seize up. BUT, since some older Mercedes and Ford owner's manuals say that it is safe to add up to 20-30% RUG to your PetroDiesel fuel to "winterize" it, then I KNOW it has to be safe to blend that much (or less) into WVO, and it will STILL be a better lube than 100% PetroDiesel. Now on to the rest...
> 
> Blending 20-25% RUG with Veggie DOES NOT lower the "overall" cetane value of the fuel; it actually RAISES the overall cetane value.
> 
> ...


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## greg273 (Aug 5, 2003)

Wisconsin Ann said:


> *Oz*: cool. glad to know about the filters...I figured it would need checking WAY more often.
> 
> *Greg*: small batches now...but I'm looking at making the 55 gallon drum batch maker.  It's the WASHING the stuff that drives me batty.  I'm thinking about a couple barrels for storage, and a one day a month "okay...today is biodiesel making day". All our vehicles use diesel and with a 120mile round trip to work every day it adds up.


 In inverted 55gallon drum makes an excellent mixing tank. Use the threaded holes/with fittings and you will have a good cheap mixing tank. The larger hole I use to drain the glycerine, the smaller has a 2" standpipe on the inside to drain biodiesel. I cut a large rectangle out of the top to mount the mixer motor and shaft. I'l try to put a photo on here if I can.
This type of setup is more suited to use in a well ventilated, preferably outside area. Lots of fumes are given off. And its hard to fully drain a 55 gallon drum, so you may have to be creative when cleaning it. 
For a self-contained biodiesel making tank using an old electric water heater, check out the "Appleseed Processor". They use a pump to do the mixing. Not as fast or efficient, but all the methanol fumes stay contained.
When you start making larger batches, I recommend making a 1 litre test batch each time. This way you can check your measurements, check your oil, and you wont end up making 30 gallons of glop. (been there).
good luck!

oh, and washing isnt as bad as it seems. I used to be against it, but now I've been washing all batches, and my fuel quality has improved. Some sort of translucent completely draining tank is helpful. Check out TankDepot, or Den Hartog Industries. The cone-bottom inductor tank is well suited to the job. If you have a Rural King, Bucheits, Tractor Supply, or some similar store they may be able to special order one for you. Expect to pay $150-$250 for tank, stand, shipping and fittings.


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## solidwoods (Dec 23, 2005)

Will chilling or freezing, to layer separate moisture of scrap veg oils help?

jim


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## greg273 (Aug 5, 2003)

solidwoods said:


> Will chilling or freezing, to layer separate moisture of scrap veg oils help?
> 
> jim


 Strangely enough, HEAT seems to make the watery emulsion stuff at the bottom seperate from the WVO easier. Set your oil in the sun, or in an old water heater, and drain off the gunk.


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## Ken Scharabok (May 11, 2002)

In Kitchen English how do you 'dewater' WVO?


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## solidwoods (Dec 23, 2005)

When oil is heated it expands and can accept more water.
When oil is cooled it contracts and sheds water (the water falls to the bottom)
My suggestion is set the oil outside in very cold weather and drain the water.
jim


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## greg273 (Aug 5, 2003)

'Free water' in WVO will naturally fall to the bottom of whatever container you are storing your oil in. Hot or cold, the transport of water will be to the bottom. Bound water, which forms an emulsification, can be broken out by application of heat. Letting your oil fall to low temperatures will result in a semi-solid, or at best, extremely viscous fluid, with the molecules hardly moving at all, thus less water transport. Returning cold oil to higher temperatures will help, as the water that was 'squeezed out' by the intial cold temps will once again be able to move freely. 

For a long time, I merely set the WVO jugs in the sun, and when pouring them into the mixing tank, would leave out the bottom 10% layer, which consisted of emulsified, watery oil. I would put all of that into a seperate container, and after a time, recover the top layer of good oil, after it had a chance to settle longer.
Now that I am using an old electric water heater to heat the oil, I drain off a few gallons from the bottom, until the watery, 'milky' looking oil is gone. The rest goes into the mix tank, heated to about 100-110 degrees. Be very careful if you heat the oil any higher than about 130F, as adding the methoxide mixture to very hot oil will cause the methoxide to boil, releasing methanol fumes!


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## fantasymaker (Aug 28, 2005)

*NEVER ADD GAS!*Forget the lube question is a matter of things EXPLODING! the gas in a gas tank wont explode cause the fumes are too thick to combust ,the fumes in a Diesel tank wont explode cause they are too thin but start to mix the two and you can hit a critical point! It wont happen often but ya only need it to happen once to ruin your family tree....it will be a STUMP!


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## Ken Scharabok (May 11, 2002)

Last issue of FARM SHOW had an article on a WI farmer who pressed out his own soybean oil. During winter they ran 50/50 kerosene/soybean oil.

According to the following cite just adding one gallon a new soybean oil to each tank of diesel can provide significantly engire wear reduction. Link also includes some recent updates on new diesel vehicles - a jeep among them.

http://www.biodieselnow.com/

I have a Ford 3000 diesel backhoe. Last time I filled it up I added a gallon of soybean cooking oil. Didn't notice a reduction in engine noise but I did notice the exhaust wasn't nearly as black.


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## Jim S. (Apr 22, 2004)

Very interesting discussion, and I have toyed with converting a cheap 1982 Datsun diesel pickup I bought. However, the time of free oil pickup is rapidly closing here, as a couple of local entrepreneurs have entered the field to sell branded "biodiesel" mixes. That means they get a lot of the waste oil in straight trucks with large tanks (think septic pumper), so restaurants don't want to fool with small quantities anymore. I can see the day of paying for the waste VO ahead, if it is not here yet.

If I did do it, I'd probably look at cobbling together my own setup, since I'd hate to invest a lot of cash in equipment and find I could no longer get used VO.


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## Jim-mi (May 15, 2002)

I'm running a blend of WVO-kerosene-RUG and a diesel additive.
The blend is concocted with a chart that varries the ingredients by the ambient temp.

The Benz is running quieter and smoother . . . .

The "french fry" smell is great . . . . . . .
except it will make ya hungry............


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