# Are we turning into GC?



## Wisconsin Ann (Feb 27, 2007)

I understand the need for people to talk about the government, and feel the need to "warn" people here about how the various things out there are being screwed up when you feel that way, but the forum is turning into a doom and gloom full blown paranoia rampant forum. 

Angie has asked before for threads to be relevant to survival/prepping. just posting a continuous bombard of threads about how the government is screwed up is NOT helping people. GC does that. 

Just take a look at the current topics that were on top of the list when I logged in today:

Postal Service on June 24 will halt employer contributions
June 24th Bunker Index - Where's all this blood coming from?
Cops carry guns to protect themselves, not to protect you.
Those on a fixed income.. SSI or other CPI based payments
 Strange Release of Oil from Reserves 
May infalion 3.6%
what happens if Greece defaults?
Nuclear Reactor incident, News Blackout?!!
Owes civilian army. TSA jumps in bed with the AFLCIO
Weekly U.S. jobless claims (unexpextedly) climb to 429,000

now...that reads like GC. I can understand why someone doesn't want to post in GC about topics...there's rampant idiocy there and it's often a place for flaming arguments instead of intelligent debates. (no one seems to care about PROOF or valid evidence..but I digress). But this forum isn't the place for politics, either. 

Yes, I know, if you're not informed about Greece defaulting (for the 3rd time) or the May inflation rate, you're not prepared for "the fall". but for crying out loud....that's what NEWS organizations are for. 

Just my 2cents worth.


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## Ernie (Jul 22, 2007)

I don't particularly see the need for a specifically "how to" forum. There's a hundred other places I can glean that information.

What I really like is when the "why" topic turns into the "how" topic and you get the full understanding and solution of an approaching difficulty. 

The nature of this forum gets debated from time to time. Someone ultimately has to render a verdict.


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## stanb999 (Jan 30, 2005)

Wisconsin Ann said:


> I understand the need for people to talk about the government, and feel the need to "warn" people here about how the various things out there are being screwed up when you feel that way, but the forum is turning into a doom and gloom full blown paranoia rampant forum.
> 
> Angie has asked before for threads to be relevant to survival/prepping. just posting a continuous bombard of threads about how the government is screwed up is NOT helping people. GC does that.
> 
> ...




And this has to do with S&P exactly how? :lookout:




I figure the forum goes threw fits of this stuff every once in a while. It generally goes the other way after a bit.


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## Shrarvrs88 (May 8, 2010)

I personally like the topics. Sometimes I post things I find that are maybe not completely sep in and of themselves, but I have lists and catagories for stuff in my head, and the folks here help me work out where different items fall. Like, whether something is just fear-mongering, or is downplayed, and why. I really like the why's. 

Like Ernie said, it turns into the how's, and I personally learn a lot from how it all plays out. But that is just me.


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## hintonlady (Apr 22, 2007)

From my recollection, Angie has been fighting political agendas for 18 months. Somewhere simply politics got more GC in nature. For the most part people stay civilized. Thank goodness for that.

I also suspect (from paying attention) that Angie is under a degree of stress or slight burnout, though I do not presume to speak for her. I have noticed her sense of humor a bit more strained if nothing else. Everyone has taken that as an opportunity to drift as a forum. Very few have opted to cut her slack even after she has issued warnings. Give an inch...

Politics have a valid place in our converstaions but there is a distinct difference between a warning and concerns leading to prep related solutions and the opposite which is people just generally ragging about their political bias and why they are frustrated at the moment.

This forum has become a lot more centered on news of the day and less oriented toward survival and prep issues, there is less learning and skill sets being presented. Sure, politics have their place but I think the percentage should be much lower.


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## AngieM2 (May 10, 2002)

Please put your 2 cents worth to this - or send me a pm and let me know what you think if you don't want to post in the open.
Thanks, Angie


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## Forerunner (Mar 23, 2007)

Unfortunately, today's survival particulars are intricately intertwined with the fickle winds of politics......and debating anything regarding politics can get, well....candid.
I feel it is a mistake to make effort to separate the two as conversation needs flow smoothly.


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## Rocktown Gal (Feb 19, 2008)

Forerunner said:


> Unfortunately, today's survival particulars are intricately intertwined with the fickle winds of politics......and debating anything regarding politics can get, well....candid.
> I feel it is a mistake to make effort to separate the two as conversation needs flow smoothly.


I agree with Forerunner...it's hard to separate them sometimes as what the Gov does tells us what we need to do to prepare or how to prepare.


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## therunbunch (Oct 5, 2009)

If there is a decision to be made, this post may have served better as a private message to Angie. Posting it like this is just going to incite all kinds of opinions... many, of which , I doubt you're interested in. I hate to see people griping back and forth. We just covered this recently here

Just rubbing my pennies together here, but current events gives basis to all things S&EP related. It drives the machine. No worries, no impending doom... no need. If it impacts your need to prep.. then I have no issue with it being posted. Again, read what you feel is relevant to your situation, it's what I do.


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## pfaubush (Aug 17, 2009)

I don't post too much here, but I have to agree with Forerunner. We're prepping because of what is going on in the news. I think that's what most folks are gearing up for. If we lose sight of that, then the prepping and the survival mindset goes to the wayside.


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## earthkitty (Mar 3, 2011)

IMO, you can only have so many threads about BOBs and grainmills.

Most people who post here are very well versed in the actual S&P aspect of putting food up and target practice. That said, the S&P threads always have something new to say that I haven't heard, or a different viewpoint.

However, discussions regarding the news about how we might get to that point of no return are very relevant to being prepared, I think.

Knowledge is power. Sheeple are sheeple because they don't know what is going on, refuse to believe it, or both.

And you are right in saying these topics cannot be discussed in a rational manner in GC. So what are we to do, not discuss what is happening at all?


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## stanb999 (Jan 30, 2005)

I don't think the thrust of Wisconsin Ann's argument was about politics. I could be wrong but I think she would rather see postings about storing wheat or making a homemade oil lamp.

As far a politics goes... I'm far from a saint in this regard. I'm known to be a bit liberterian... Just a bit. We all bring our ideas and percieved notions of things to a conversation. I think it adds to the conversation if one can feel free to post their reasons why they feel a particular way. But avoiding saying a poster is a nutcase for believing so and so is destroying the nation or thinking they are making it a better place. Does have merit and should be strickly enforced.


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## earthkitty (Mar 3, 2011)

hintonlady said:


> people just generally ragging about their political bias


I rarely see that happen here. It is a general, "This is what THE GOVERNMENT is doing/not doing", rather than the GC "You and your liberal president suck/yeah well your conservative Shrub sucked worse" kind of mentality.


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## time (Jan 30, 2011)

stanb999 said:


> And this has to do with S&P exactly how? :lookout:


My first thought too.

Angie does a good job of deleting the posts that have a Dem or Rep or this Pres and that Pres banter. Most of us don't delve into partisan bashing.

I personally feel what some might construe as political discussions is, for most of us, economic discussions. My personal feeling is that economics are our biggest threat for a looming disaster. A worldwide disaster. I don't feel it is possible to discuss these things without discussing Goobermint policy. What the PTB does effects us all and can increase or decrease(or kick the can down the road:happy2 the threat.

I live somewhat near Yellowstone but don't often post about the super volcano. A daily conversation about such a topic is not possible because of the time line involved. Information about what magma is doing under the earth is very slow in comming, in the form of years.

Economic indicators are daily and more likely to effect me.


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## Explorer (Dec 2, 2003)

Politics is already separated out of General Chat. Maybe S&EP should be merged with GC.


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## bee (May 12, 2002)

I feel that it is hard to prepare for what is coming if I don't know what is coming or why.

I look at the threads and read the ones that interest me. Very few gun threads are ever read. Most animal, garden, coupon, "scores" and general prepping questions/answers are. That is just my interest. I don't understand government, politics and the financial world. Mostly because I have no interest in them so devote little time to them.

I would not have Angie's job. I think she does a good job keeping a rein on us.
I just read what interests me and pass on the rest.


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## time (Jan 30, 2011)

Explorer said:


> Politics is already separated out of General Chat. Maybe S&EP should be merged with GC.


Newer members cannot post in GC


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## hintonlady (Apr 22, 2007)

I needed advice on how to potty train my toddler. Took that to CF. This wasn't the place for that.

If I want to discuss all the myriad of political reasons the economy is tanking I would go to GC. 

If I wanted to know how much wheat to put by for X amount of people for X amount of time and how to ration it smartly this WOULD be the place. The WHY of the need to store it is less relevant than how. 

This is not the forum it was a couple years ago. The same can be said for the rest of HT. The forum constantly changes. I just wonder if SE&P were to continue on it's current trajectory (much like our economy) where will it be in another year?

18 months ago I got rebuked for discussing socialism and it's validity as a community...community survival. Suddenly it's okay to discuss all things political because people tend to have the same leanings? Kind of hypocritical if you ask me. I lived in a socialist community where there were no poor...that is a solution that no one here wants to think about and this isn't the place to discuss it anyway. Guran-dang-teed if I spoke up my opinion about the economy plenty of people would go GC on me in a heartbeat. This area stays polite because very few dissent from the popular tin hat theories.

again...hypocrisy.


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## Cascade Failure (Jan 30, 2007)

I tend to agree with Ann. 

Prepping is about being prepared. 

Prepping is about surviving and thriving. Survival is about food, shelter, clothing, water, relationships, etc... Thriving is about TP (thousands of rolls in my opinion), coffee (actually, this should be in the surviving category but I'm too lazy to move it right now), PMs, wills (yes, a will can mean the difference between your heirs thriving or surviving), chocolate and entertainment.

Prepping is not about the cause that makes prepping neccesary. Prep for the worst, pray for the best.


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## Cascade Failure (Jan 30, 2007)

hintonlady said:


> I needed advice on how to potty train my toddler. Took that to CF. This wasn't the place for that.


Sorry Cabin Fever and I couldn't help. Who knew a toddler would do that with an 18-wheeler and a mini-mart? :lookout:


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## logbuilder (Jan 31, 2006)

I've always respected that Angie tries hard to make sure S&EP is clearly different than GC. More pure to mission, more orderly, more actionable info.

Seems to me that since the Japan accident, S&EP has become more like GC. Maybe a GC little brother.

I'd prefer to see it as something different than GC. If that means there is less activity and noise, that's fine with me. I'd bet the quality and usefulness of the posts will be generally higher.


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## Becka (Mar 15, 2008)

Here's my $.02. I for one, am very thankful for some of these threads, because I do not have the time or resources to search out all the news. Please don't take it for granted that all of us actually have TV news channels. In my case, all we have is Netflix and local radio. In the mountains, you don't get "news" without buying cable TV and that's an expense (and luxury) my family cannot afford. My internet is slow and I don't have time to look up all the different news sites I would trust (at least more than the mainstream news.)

So, yes, if it weren't for these threads, I wouldn't have known ANYTHING about Greece, about the Nebraska nucular power plant, etc. I'd MUCH rather hear this on this forum rather than waste my time searching through the garbage on GC. At least in this forum, the topics are presented in a level-headed manner without name calling and "the sky is falling" attitude. Oh, and for the bunker index, I didn't even know 99% of that was even happening, so thank you, Ernie, from the bottom of my heart!

If these threads are offensive to some folks here, why couldn't we have a separate sub-forum for "news" items? That way we could still keep up with this stuff without wading through the muck in gc. In my thinking, these news items keep us well informed on HOW to prep and I'd hate to lose them.


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## hintonlady (Apr 22, 2007)

Cascade Failure said:


> Sorry Cabin Fever and I couldn't help. Who knew a toddler would do that with an 18-wheeler and a mini-mart? :lookout:



Took me a minute to come up to speed on this one. :gaptooth: (perfect smiley if you ask me)


:rotfl::rotfl::rotfl:


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## Txsteader (Aug 22, 2005)

I'm always running across topics that, on first thought, I think would be helpful for preppers but because they're political in nature, hesitate to post them here. I usually just post them in Politics and hope folks here will see it.

I do that out of respect for Angie. I must admit, though, lately I sometimes forget which forum I'm on & post a political reply in other discussions. :doh:

These days, it's hard to keep the two (S&EP/politics) subjects separate. I do appreciate Angie trying to keep us on course as to how X topic relates to S&EP, though.


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## time (Jan 30, 2011)

Cascade Failure said:


> Prepping is not about the cause that makes prepping neccesary. Prep for the worst, pray for the best.


Um, without the cause, there is nothing to prep for.

I'm getting the impression from the posts of people that pop into this section once in a while, it's the doom and gloom they have issue with and not the topic. 

I feel those opposed to the talk of the economy here are also opposed to the talk of chemtrails, HAARP, nuclear disaster and a host of other doom and gloom topics that are not neccisarily political.

So, is it really the "doom and gloom" being discused that is undesired?


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## Cascade Failure (Jan 30, 2007)

hintonlady said:


> Took me a minute to come up to speed on this one. :gaptooth: (perfect smiley if you ask me)
> 
> 
> :rotfl::rotfl::rotfl:


I'm glad you saw the intended humor!

Have a good day everyone, I need some sleep before work tonight. 

Remember, tomorrow will come and tomorrow we will be here to help those we can.


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## Cascade Failure (Jan 30, 2007)

time said:


> Um, without the cause, there is nothing to prep for.


But if you are prepped for basic human needs then generally the cause doesn't matter does it?


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## AngieM2 (May 10, 2002)

time said:


> Newer members cannot post in GC


This is the very most Angie inflaming comment -
And the most likely to get anyone and their post deleted.

This is not for those that are using it just until they can get into GC. 

I cannot tell you how that will set me off. And how short a stay you'll have here.


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## Debbie in Wa (Dec 28, 2007)

O.k. let's hold the flame thrower, but here's my two cents worth. I come to this site to learn all the things that are new to me when it comes to prepping. Although I am not at the beginning stage, I am still new to this. There are soooo many new things out there along with the old, that maybe I haven't heard about or tried yet. I really don't pay too much about what is going on in the world, as it would drive me crazy and become obsessive. My deal is I am prepping just because I know that ONE day, I will need to use those preps for a longer period of time than I would like it to be. If it wasn't for this thread I wouldn't have been able to get by when my dear hubby had to have emergency open heart surgery, fired from his job a couple months later, and live off my 600 dollars a month SSD check for another seven months. If it wasn't for our food preps and toilet paper hoarding, we could have been in real bad shape.


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## kabic (May 12, 2009)

hintonlady said:


> This forum has become a lot more centered on news of the day and less oriented toward survival and prep issues, there is less learning and skill sets being presented. Sure, politics have their place but I think the percentage should be much lower.


I agree,with the way the forum has been going it should be renamed "Current Events"


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## Explorer (Dec 2, 2003)

AngieM2 said:


> This is the very most Angie inflaming comment -
> And the most likely to get anyone and their post deleted.
> 
> This is not for those that are using it just until they can get into GC.
> ...


You are right about deleting my short post and I apologize. You have said it much better.


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## Cabin Fever (May 10, 2002)

I'm sitting here wondering if anyone reads thread titles and simply skip the ones they don't want to read? Please be informed that you are not required to read every thread and every post on this forum. If you don't like a "politcal-sounding" thread, move on to the next one.


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

> Originally Posted by time
> Newer members cannot post in GC





> This is the very most Angie inflaming comment -
> And the most likely to get anyone and their post deleted.
> 
> This is not for those that are using it just until they can get into GC.


I took that to mean if they can't post in GC yet, then they wouldn't be able to participate in any Survival topics,which is why it needs to remains seperate, and not that it was a "substitute" type of forum for other topics

But then I've been wrong a time or two


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## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

Cabin Fever said:


> I'm sitting here wondering if anyone reads thread titles and simply skip the ones they don't want to read? Please be informed that you are not required to read every thread and every post on this forum. If you don't like a "politcal-sounding" thread, move on to the next one.


Why should you have to wade through the titles? This was not a political forum in the first place.


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## Ernie (Jul 22, 2007)

And it's still not. We're talking about the economy, increasingly tyrannical rules and regulations, and the ever-growing debt.

If you think those things aren't going to impact your life then you're sadly mistaken. If you think you don't have to prepare for those things then you're probably in the wrong place to begin with.


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## stanb999 (Jan 30, 2005)

painterswife said:


> Why should you have to wade through the titles? This was not a political forum in the first place.


I don't really see them as political.. I mean it's not like the folks posting are saying. Vote for my guy! He will fix it.

I see it as the current state of things. Saying the economy is bad, the job #'s stink, or the federal reserve is devaluing the dollar. Isn't political. It's no more political than discussing other news. Like a house fire. It is what it is.

If you feel it's political that the country is in the state that it is. Well thats you. We have been in decline for most of the current century. No one party or political group holds title to this mess. If you think it's political to say the PTB exist or they lie.. Well the retoric on both sides bears that out.


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## Ohio dreamer (Apr 6, 2006)

I agree things have gotten heavy on the political side lately. But I think that is a reflection of what we, as a country/ world, are going through at this time (and many look to the politicians to "fix it" - not say everyone does, but that is where most people point fingers). I have enjoyed the "political" content of many of the posts. Most, IMO, have been done tastefully and without attacks on one another. It has gotten a bit heavy on "party bashing", but I personally just ignore those comments and keep reading the "news" portions of the thread. 

Angie has done a good job at making us "play nice", I'm sure it's been an uphill battle for her some days. How shes keeping a rein on us and dealing with her own life is beyond me, but she's doing it.

I never go to GC because every time I do I feel like I need a really long shower in bleach to get the dirt off of me. I don't get that feeling here. Yes, I'd like more "how to" threads, but many of us that hang out here are beyond the "basic how to's" so unless someone comes across something new to them, has a questions, etc there isn't much reason to just start a how to thread. As a newbie I found everyone very helpful and willing to assist/tolerate my questions. I hope the current newbies feel the same way.


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## Cascade Failure (Jan 30, 2007)

Ernie said:


> And it's still not. We're talking about the economy, increasingly tyrannical rules and regulations, and the ever-growing debt.
> 
> If you think those things aren't going to impact your life then you're sadly mistaken. If you think you don't have to prepare for those things then you're probably in the wrong place to begin with.


Again, cover the basics and some aspects of thriving and then cause shouldn't matter. 

That said...I do enjoy your posts. You have a unique way that I appreciate.


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

> Again, cover the basics and some aspects of thriving and then cause shouldn't matter.


I agree.

When you're sitting in the dark, it doesn't much matter WHY the power is off.
What matters is can you supply an alternative


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## Vickie44 (Jul 27, 2010)

I read and learn here alot. I do sometimes find the doom/ gloom aspect overwhelming although PERHAPS if the doom / gloom news event or hypothesis were followed by what kind of S and EP would make it survivable then it would be an interesting and productive discussion. Discussing doom and gloom as an after thought of prepping to justify having done so just seems a depressing excercise, using current events to realise prep items or storage methods we might not have considered is informative


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## time (Jan 30, 2011)

AngieM2 said:


> This is the very most Angie inflaming comment -
> And the most likely to get anyone and their post deleted.
> 
> This is not for those that are using it just until they can get into GC.
> ...


I beleive I have enough time and posts to post in GC. I never have.

The suggestion that I was replying to was to possibly join the two, S&EP with GC. That would make it so new members cannot post S&EP topics.

I was not suggesting S&EP is the pre-GC.


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## SquashNut (Sep 25, 2005)

Current events can effect cost and availablity of certain commidities.
In my mind this has alot to do with how we prep. Wars, drought, flooding, tornatoes, workers strikes ect.


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## AngieM2 (May 10, 2002)

time said:


> I beleive I have enough time and posts to post in GC. I never have.
> 
> The suggestion that I was replying to was to possibly join the two, S&EP with GC. That would make it so new members cannot post S&EP topics.
> 
> I was not suggesting S&EP is the pre-GC.


Thank you for explaining more. You just happened to hit a spot that sets me off as others did not have your intent. 

And why join the two? Doesn't GC have other topics that would not even fit if this forum and it were joined?


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## Fowler (Jul 8, 2008)

Sorry if my input offends....to answer the OP's question: YES...this site is turning into GC..I have to scroll through a ton of news events to get to actual prepping and survival topics.


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## Ernie (Jul 22, 2007)

Bearfootfarm said:


> I agree.
> 
> When you're sitting in the dark, it doesn't much matter WHY the power is off.
> What matters is can you supply an alternative


Maybe a line is down a couple of miles down the road from you. Or maybe the power plant was hit by terrorists earlier as the precursor to a full scale attack.

You still think it doesn't matter "why"?

Here's what I think is happening in this forum ...

The decline is accelerating. Those who see either a more total failure of the system, or a more widespread failure of the system, are talking more and more about it. Those who have only ever believed in a minor and temporary scope of failure are feeling put out by the discussions of the former.

Perhaps I represent the total failure camp while Ann represents the partial failure camp. 

The thing is ... there is room for her camp in the total failure camp. However there is NO room for the total failure camp in her camp.

In other words, we can incorporate the small, localized "faultless" scenarios into the greater scope if we wish, but to forbid us from discussing the more political failures will be very exclusive and restrictive.


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## SquashNut (Sep 25, 2005)

Bearfootfarm said:


> I agree.
> 
> When you're sitting in the dark, it doesn't much matter WHY the power is off.
> What matters is can you supply an alternative


Knowing why could tell you when it starts & how long it will last. Do you get out the propane stove and can the entire contents of your freezer, or make sure not to open it any more than you have to.


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## time (Jan 30, 2011)

Cascade Failure said:


> Again, cover the basics and some aspects of thriving and then cause shouldn't matter.


I disagree.

If I spend my resources building a bomb shelter rather than paying off my house I havn't prepared well for the more likely senario that that I could lose my house and bombshelter to economic collapse. :bash:

I'd be in great shape if I was bombed though.


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## earthkitty (Mar 3, 2011)

Bearfootfarm said:


> When you're sitting in the dark, it doesn't much matter WHY the power is off.


I disagree 100%.

Prepping to live through an ice storm that takes out power, that's just life.

If the power is out because a nuke just hit XYZ or N Korea just took down our grid (a subject I wouldn't have known about had it not been posted here), that is a very different ball of wax.

Do I need to go out and help my neighbors cut up the tree that fell over onto the line, or do I need to be armed and hunker down in my house to protect my children from possible marauders?

The news matters. Your reaction to a disaster will be determined by what caused that disaster.


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## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

Can this forum have a current events subforum? Like GC and Politics?


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## Cascade Failure (Jan 30, 2007)

Ernie said:


> Maybe a line is down a couple of miles down the road from you. Or maybe the power plant was hit by terrorists earlier as the precursor to a full scale attack.
> 
> You still think it doesn't matter "why"?
> 
> ...


Maybe...but...


I believe prepping for failure doesn't end with a timeline. The basic needs, regardless of cause, are covered. It doesn't matter if the power will be out a day or a century. Do I really care if the power is out due to a storm or an EMP if I can provide power for my family for as long as they need it?


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## SquashNut (Sep 25, 2005)

Look at Argentina.


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## earthkitty (Mar 3, 2011)

Ernie said:


> Maybe a line is down a couple of miles down the road from you. Or maybe the power plant was hit by terrorists earlier as the precursor to a full scale attack.
> 
> You still think it doesn't matter "why"?


Oh my, paranoid survivalist doom and gloomers think alike, do they not? :hysterical:


Seriously, for the longest time people who were survivalists were considered fringe lunatics, extremists. Now that S&P has kind of gone mainstream (and it has because of the current state of our nation and the world, i.e. "the news"), those who five years ago never gave one thought to S&P now try to tell longtime S&Pers that they don't like the "why" discussions.

Seems to me if you don't like a show, change the channel. If there is a thread that doesn't interest you, don't read it.

Of course you should have to "wade" through titles to find the ones that interest you. If I see a thread about shotguns, I generally don't read it. If I see a thread about BOBs, I generally don't read it. Scrolling is not hard.

Now, I am relatively new to this forum, so my opinioin may not count for much. However, if this forum is merged with GC, or if these news items are forced there, I will find another place to discuss these things with like minded folk.


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## tkrabec (Mar 12, 2003)

I don't see the political posts/general news stuff as much as political or general news when they are posted here as much as a heads up. This heads up is a reminder to make sure the preps are up to date, and to keep them that way or to get on the ball for changes that need to be made.


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## Cabin Fever (May 10, 2002)

Can we have a subforum for right-leaning, left-handed, red-haired, thirty-something, pagans interested in tent construction and tricking out AR-15s?

IMHO, Homesteading Today has way too many forums and subforums.


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## lorian (Sep 4, 2005)

I love it here because I can read the news relevant to survival/prep without all the carp as in GC. I for one appreciate the posts that have to do with the news and the commentary that goes with it. I don't want to see this turn into a strictly "how to"....that would be boring IMHO and you can find those anywhere. 

This forum ties news and prepping together in a sane (mostly) way. It's very needed IMO.


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## GrannyCarol (Mar 23, 2005)

What I want to be prepared for is the results of the increasing changes politically in our country. I want to know what is happening and how it will affect how we live and I believe one of the biggest problems we have/will have stems from what is going on politically. 

I don't favor one "side" over the other, the overall trend is the same no matter who is supposedly running things. 

If the government is gradually losing the ability to provide long term power/water/sewer due to economic pressures, I want to know that too. 

I'm not worried about the power being out for a few days, we're ready for that. I want to have in mind how we will deal if things go really bad long term and, personally, where I live there are no floods, hurricanes, tornadoes, earthquakes, etc. We do have semi desert and the need for secure water supply. That happens to be provided, atm, through our municipality. What will we do if they can't fund it? What will we do if the overall power is out or greatly diminished if the US gov't fails financially? How likely is that? Wouldn't it be foolish not to consider the state of the US government when planning for possible emergencies? I already know what happens in natural emergencies, that's pretty easy to figure out and plan ahead for. 

Just my thoughts.  And, no, I don't read more than a few of the forums on HT, I don't have time. I don't often read this one, but it is one of the few I come to from time to time.


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## earthkitty (Mar 3, 2011)

painterswife said:


> Can this forum have a current events subforum? Like GC and Politics?


WHY??? That just strikes me as silly. Read what you want and leave the rest alone for crying out loud.


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## AngieM2 (May 10, 2002)

Cabin Fever said:


> Can we have a subforum for right-leaning, left-handed, red-haired, thirty-something, pagans interested in tent construction and tricking out AR-15s?
> 
> IMHO, Homesteading Today has way too many forums and subforums.


put that in with your forum :nana:


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## Cascade Failure (Jan 30, 2007)

earthkitty said:


> I disagree 100%.
> 
> Prepping to live through an ice storm that takes out power, that's just life.
> 
> ...


My reaction will be based on need.

You brought up a secondary issue.

For example, power goes out. My first reaction is to provide power for my family. So...my battery bank just kicked in. Things are pretty normal seconds later. Why the power went out doesn't really factor in yet because I prepped for "what" not "why".

Let's address why the power went out and ignore day to day stuff(drunks and storms). Maybe it was marauding gangs...preps include arms, mutual defense and comms.

Maybe it was a N. Korean emp? Preps cover emp. Who cares where it originated?

Maybe it was a tree limb AND a failed battery bank? Good thing I prepped for a genny.

My point...I prep to cover what my family needs and, to the best of my abilities, wants. Can I cover everything? No. Asteroids, black holes and O's third term may wipe me out. But, I do what I can to cover the basics, not the "whys".


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## earthkitty (Mar 3, 2011)

Cascade Failure said:


> Do I really care if the power is out due to a storm or an EMP if I can provide power for my family for as long as they need it?


You should, because one of those scenarios doesn't include the possibility of an armed enemy coming up your driveway.


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## TNHermit (Jul 14, 2005)

Somebody tell me how you learn and prep and not know what is going on. Your gonna be in an earth of state if you prepare for the flood and the govt comes in runs you off your property. Trouble is everyone has the "I' syndrome. What is it for "ME" Them days are over. I thought since this was a Christian site it was suppose to be about "US" but I'm learning different.
While its good to think of your self and family you better be thinking about others and what is going on and what direction you should go with your preps. Its almost to late to be earning preppring unless you are new. And there are YEARS worth of that info here.
Every post someone makes on what is going on is a part of the puzzle. Even may be a small part of the puzzle. but no puzzle is complete with out all the parts and some times the small part is an important part. And I believe it says in one of those religious books. Its the little things that will get you
My 2 cents. I'm as well prepared as I can be, not as I would like but maybe all that matters is me


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## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

earthkitty said:


> WHY??? That just strikes me as silly. Read what you want and leave the rest alone for crying out loud.


So why have a SE&P forum going with your logic.


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## Cascade Failure (Jan 30, 2007)

AngieM2 said:


> put that in with your forum :nana:


He has his own forum? I want one too. I'll call it "The other CF forum, where this CF is always right, unless he's mistaken, then he must have been wrong!"


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## Cascade Failure (Jan 30, 2007)

earthkitty said:


> You should, because one of those scenarios doesn't include the possibility of an armed enemy coming up your driveway.


I think you missed the arms, mutual defense and comms part...


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## AngieM2 (May 10, 2002)

Lay off each other.


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## Pouncer (Oct 28, 2006)

I personally like the mix of current news and prep information. Many times, I will read at least the first post on a thread that is about something I never considered, or even knew about. Now, while it may serve to just ramp up the anxiety a little, it mostly opens my mind to new possibilities on the horizon.

And if you guys think GC is nasty and sticky, you haven't been out much online, haha I consider HTs General Chat and Politics forums to be light weight in their disagreements and spats  But I will confess to being online since.....96 or 97. Long before forum moderators were common and many BBs were pretty much free wheeling rumbles of words.

I personally have grown enough that the words someone uses to post....I don't take personally (unless it is directed very personally at me, of course). *I* am the only one responsible for *my* reaction to whatever I read.....therefore, I find it easy to shrug off the comments that others might find deeply upsetting. 

Whatever happens, please keep the Bunker Index. Love it!


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## Fowler (Jul 8, 2008)

Cascade Failure said:


> He has his own forum? I want one too.




:duel::hysterical::duel::hysterical::duel::run: :bdh:

All this bickering is cracking me up!!


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## Cascade Failure (Jan 30, 2007)

AngieM2 said:


> Lay off each other.


I missed something. Respectfuly, who should lay off? I thought this had been a fairly healthy debate. My apologies in advance if I crossed a line.


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## Wisconsin Ann (Feb 27, 2007)

A couple of people have said that I, Ann, just want to see threads on oil lamps and plants and such. Not true. I enjoy the threads that are economic in nature, or warning about a catastrophe...but to be in a Preparedness forum, they need to LINK to that idea somehow. Not just a general "omg, look what's happening, you need to be worried". Of COURSE a smart person would be worried. 

For those who use this forum to get their news...because you don't have TV or Radio or netflix or whatever....you obviously DO have internet. All of the news feeds are out there. If you have a home page on something like yahoo.com, you can set it up so that all those feeds are on your home page..right there with the newest stuff front and center. 

Do NOT count on ANY one forum for your news. You will get only slanted one sided views that way. Unless you go out and search out the sources of the "news" presented in a forum like this, you will never know "the rest of the story". 

Now...I'm not saying that the views here are one sided...but we often see a statement that is presented as fact..with no backup. Some people (like Ernie) I trust to have done his homework. Some others on HT (who usually post only in GC) I don't trust further than I could throw a pallet of gold bars.

My ... I guess "gripe" is that the political or, in some views "economic" threads turn into government bashing, paranoia driven arguments. We saw it recently in one of the threads about what IS or IS NOT meant by some term or other. totally general chat minus the name calling. Angie has enough to worry about without this forum turning into GC jr. 

Now...can I ignore threads that I don't like? sure I can. But I don't always know what is IN the thread. The political threads also turn this forum into a more mainstream Survival forum...which is something I can find on a dozen sites. And why many non-prep people don't read the prepping forums..it's tin-foil-hat-time.


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## Trixters_muse (Jan 29, 2008)

Personally, I like reading some of the current events, and I don't mind scanning through to find what interests me, I then just skip the rest. I really Enjoy Ernie's Bunker reports, he posts things that I sometimes miss while surfing the news sites. 

What if a sub forum was made called The Bunker Forum for the topics in Question? Then Ernie could continue his Bunker Reports there and other could post relative topics freeing up the space for the prep topics. 

Angie, I think you are doing a great job here and I truly appreciate you.


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## Cascade Failure (Jan 30, 2007)

Let us re-frame the argument. Think about your worst case scenario. Please describe it and the steps you need to take to survive.


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## tab (Aug 20, 2002)

NO, this not GC!
If it weren't for the why's my dh would still be calling me crazy. I need to know the why's and the reasons, otherwise how do you explain anything? If it weren't for the current state of the news we'd still think a generator and a lamp would be ok, fine. Power rarely is out for more than three days. This is the place I learned about Executive Orders and EMPs. It was years ago. Again, a reason to go beyond a lantern and matches. I have never been one to do things without a logical explainable reason. 
It does seem silly to have a sub forum. Look at titles and posters and dkip those that bug you. This is generally a very civil and enlightening forum and I would hate to loose that.


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## earthkitty (Mar 3, 2011)

painterswife said:


> So why have a SE&P forum going with your logic.


My logic is that current events and the things that are being discussed in this forum are pertinent to S&P.


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## Txsteader (Aug 22, 2005)

Ohio dreamer said:


> I never go to GC because every time I do I feel like I need a really long shower in bleach to get the dirt off of me. I don't get that feeling here.


That's exactly the point I was making earlier. There are people who prefer not to go to GC, who would never see some of the posts about the global economy, for example, that _could_ make a huge impact on their way of life/survival. Here, it would be 'how do I prep for that possibility'.....in GC, it would be 'who/what caused it'. Same subject, just discussed from different angles.


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## ne prairiemama (Jan 30, 2010)

I love reading the BI too. We don't have tv, my internet works pretty good for HT but not so well on alot of the news sights with all their pics and flashy advertisements ect. so this is the best place I can go to get important news info. It was the reason I knew tornadic weather was coming a few days ago. We have an old radio in the garage I can bring in but the reception out here is really bad. 

I like being able to say, "hey we have flooding by the nuke plant. What do we do to prepare" or " We want to get away from gov. help, what ways can we prepare for hat is to come and do that in the mean time"? or " What should we do if this or that happened" you know? You can't prep someone for a tornado when a flood is coming kwim? It's not the same.... 

I didn't read everyones posts but thought I'd throw this out there.


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## time (Jan 30, 2011)

earthkitty said:


> My logic is that current events and the things that are being discussed in this forum are pertinent to S&P.


Agreed


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## Vickie44 (Jul 27, 2010)

Cascade Failure said:


> Let us re-frame the argument. Think about your worst case scenario. Please describe it and the steps you need to take to survive.


Like this !


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## Ernie (Jul 22, 2007)

This is sort of a knitting circle, but maybe a knitting circle where you might end up getting stabbed in the eye.


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## beaglebiz (Aug 5, 2008)

Does not bother me...like an any other forum, I read what interests me, skip the stuff that does not, and post if I have or want more info.
I think MORE censure is NOT the answer (unless it is a clear rules violation)
I dont read evry post on the poultry board, because my chickens never had mites, and I have no guineas, ducks or geese or even peacocks. but I like the freedom to do so if I choose


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## Belfrybat (Feb 21, 2003)

ne prairiemama said:


> I like being able to say, "hey we have flooding by the nuke plant. What do we do to prepare" or " We want to get away from gov. help, what ways can we prepare for hat is to come and do that in the mean time"? or " What should we do if this or that happened" you know? You can't prep someone for a tornado when a flood is coming kwim? It's not the same....


It seems to me that the example of "news reporting" above links directly to S&EP. Personally, I have no problem with that. Ditto something like "war with Libya is interrupting oil supplies so stock up now before prices rise ... or here are ways to be less dependent on oil" kind of news reporting makes sense to me since it is linked to S&EP. But to just report "the sky is falling" with no reference as to how to prepare or link to the purpose of S&EP just makes no sense to me. That is one reason I am probably the minority in NOT liking Ernie's bunker report and wish it was posted in GC instead of here. 

As someone else said, if you read HT then you have internet access, so read some of the news sites. I have my homepage set to Google news and I get the highlights of what is happening in the nation and world. If I want more detail, I can click on the links or go to another news source -- heaven knows there are plenty out there. 

Long winded response to say I agree with the OP -- this forum feels more GC lately but with a tad more civility. But just a tad more.


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## tkrabec (Mar 12, 2003)

TNHermit said:


> Somebody tell me how you learn and prep and not know what is going on. Your gonna be in an earth of state if you prepare for the flood and the govt comes in runs you off your property. Trouble is everyone has the "I' syndrome. What is it for "ME" Them days are over. I thought since this was a Christian site it was suppose to be about "US" but I'm learning different.


This site is about US, we are here prepping & sharing, we are being stuards of our families, creatures & homes. Given enough resources I could prep for everyone & everything (*caugh FEMA*).


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## kirkmcquest (Oct 21, 2010)

Forerunner said:


> Unfortunately, today's survival particulars are intricately intertwined with the fickle winds of politics......and debating anything regarding politics can get, well....candid.
> I feel it is a mistake to make effort to separate the two as conversation needs flow smoothly.


I agree with this. How can you discuss a potential survival situation without discussing government policy? Government has become too massive a force to exclude from the issue of survival and preparedness.

The subject of survival and preparedness is very broad and might include many factors. Right now, one of the most pressing issues is political in nature.


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## Gabriel (Dec 2, 2008)

I have no problem with seeing some current events topics, since they do relate to what we should prep' for. But perhaps those who love to post said topics could do what Ernie did with his bunker index... combine them! Make a rolling thread that updates with news items of a certain nature. It'll make it easier to pick out (to read, or ignore) from the rest and keep things from getting cluttered. 

I'm not perfect in the behavioral department, so maybe this will come back to bite me, but I would like to see a heavier handed moderation when it comes to the GC attitude intrusion into this forum. Surely someone could be trusted to help moderate? I know the mod's have quite a job, and they do very well in general, but some help would lighten the load. :shrug:


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## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

I suggested a sub-forum. 

Just as Politics is a sub-forum of GC, we could have a sub-form that discussed events that relates to news that relates to SE&P.


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## therunbunch (Oct 5, 2009)

Fowler said:


> :duel::hysterical::duel::hysterical::duel::run: :bdh:
> 
> All this bickering is cracking me up!!


This. Good use of emotions.. you get extra points for creativity.

Unfortunately, Government gives us reason TO prep lol. When current events start calming down.. you'll see the forum calm down too. I'm with Cabin Fever.. use your right to choose what you read. If it isn't interesting or you don't think it's beneficial.. move onto to something else, but don't be trying to choose what others can post. Most of it is somewhat relevant to prepping.. the rest gets canned appropriately. I love reading what others post here.


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## TNHermit (Jul 14, 2005)

Has anyone read the thread on PROP 21 that Owe signed to take over the rural aspects of society
Who says what light bulb you have to use
Who says What you should or shouldn't eat or what you can or can't raise
Who tells you where, how ,how big, and what style you can build
Who tells you (or will )where and when you can go to the doctor or if you even can
Who takes a greater and greater share of your money and gives it to those who don't need it.
Get the drift. 
Are those things you have to prepare for. figure out how to abide or get around.
And while this is a site for all of us. Why do so many want it configured just for what THEY think is important.
I been around a few years, lived with the rich and lived poor, seen kids that float in a river of * crap waiting for you to throw them a coin. If what is going on now had been happening before and just after I was born I think there would be war going on in this country right now.


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## earthkitty (Mar 3, 2011)

TNHermit said:


> If what is going on now had been happening before and just after I was born I think there would be war going on in this country right now.


Yep. Slow boiling of the frog.


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## mightybooboo (Feb 10, 2004)

I dont know how quality of survival can NOT be included.

I dont want to live in poverty,or under a tyranny,or in a FEMA camp,etc.I dont want to be searched and show my papers to travel,thats the Nazi system.

If our very way of living is threatened,then politics that are threatening us must be discussed and identified,or its like somebody else said,how many water filter threads and pantry storage do you need.

I get those concepts,I want to know what is threatening my Country,my Family and Freedoms.

I DONT like the partisan politics with the 'you lousy DemoRepublocrap you',and the snotty names applied to one party or the other (which IMMEDIATELY insults almost 50% of posters thanks to the great political divide so many/MOST live for),or posters for that matter.THATS GC,the Partisan 'very unpleasant' Forum,Im glad we see very little of THAT here.

So I would say this place is FAR from GC.

But Politics ARE a Central threat to our Survival if SURVIVAL means more to you than just food water and shelter.To me QUALITY of Life is at least as important as quantity.


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## mightybooboo (Feb 10, 2004)

You know,when we are involved in several Active WARS at this time,and a depression staring us in the face,to ignore them as not survival.....I dont see how.

They are bound to come up.They do affect whether you or loved ones live or die!

Yeah,its a bummer,its also Fact.


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## mightybooboo (Feb 10, 2004)

SquashNut said:


> Knowing why could tell you when it starts & how long it will last.


And give you a heads up to ACT,NOW!

When we discuused in 2008 the stock market failing (and believe or not a lot of folks were unhappy it was being discussed),and then it DID,some of us used that information to realign our Investments and saved,and even made money by timely action.


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## hintonlady (Apr 22, 2007)

Ernie said:


> This is sort of a knitting circle, but maybe a knitting circle where you might end up getting stabbed in the eye.


Now Ernie, I thought we agreed that was an accident.


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## naturelover (Jun 6, 2006)

painterswife said:


> I suggested a sub-forum.
> 
> Just as Politics is a sub-forum of GC, we could have a sub-form that discussed events that relates to news that relates to SE&P.


This has been suggested by more than one person in this topic, and it's been suggested by other people in previous topics in recent weeks. Under the circumstances I think it's a good idea and could resolve some of the dissatisfaction and division that's been continually growing for the past few weeks. It's very clear that there are people who want to read and participate in the "political sky's falling" and "what if" topics and there's those who prefer to participate in informative "how to prep for...." topics without having to wade through every other non-prep related topic on the board. The S&EP 'how to' aspect of this forum does seem to be getting crowded out by a lot of that other GC & Politics type of stuff, kind of like the forum has become invaded and taken over by some people trying to exert personal control over forum content.

A sub-forum for current world events that might relate to future survivalism and preparedness would be a good location for Ernie's Bunker Index posts and all of that political or government related stuff that TNHermit keeps on posting, as well as a good place for posting the conspiracy theories and 'what if' gloom & doom topics, and topics about wars and the economy and financial investments that keep on popping up. 

I don't mind skimming through the world events and economic doom type of stuff because _some_ of it does interest me, but I would prefer to see it separated into a different category from the S&EP related topics that this forum was originally started for at its inception. 

.


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## Ohio Rusty (Jan 18, 2008)

Does everyone believe that the news on TV and the news coming from the Government, from TEPCO at Fukushima, etc. is the 100% real truth??? 
Nothing to see here ... everyone go home ....

News you see on TV and from companies, banks and others are just what they want you to hear and goes along with their biased agenda. 

Then I come to places like this, Llamedos and other sites to get the real news, to get the other opinions and to get all the information inbetween the lines that TPTB won't tell you. 
Everything that is happening can start a domino effect that effects all of us. If you don't believe that, then you have not been affected by high gas prices, high coffee prices, high food prices, a collapsing economy, etc. 
You and I are also one of the dominos that can and may fall. World events will have a future effect on all of us .... and I want to be informed what they are so I can read the opinions of those much more learned and smarter than I so I can make a well informed decision of my future preps. 

I already know how to make an oil lamp. Now tell me about the effects on the world market that is causing my oil to skyrocket in price and what will cause the zombies to come and try to take my lamp oil ....

Ohio Rusty ><>


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## mightybooboo (Feb 10, 2004)

Sub forum,not needed.Read the posts that apply to you,dont read what dont.Nobody forces you to read anything.

Moderate your own reading,not everyone elses is my take.


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## mightybooboo (Feb 10, 2004)

naturelover said:


> but I would prefer to see it separated into a different category from the S&EP related topics that this forum was originally started for at its inception.
> 
> .


Ummmmm.....this forum is far tamer from where it started.And has nicely evolved too to include far more people than it did before,Now lets not put in limitations to reverse that back to what it was.


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## AngieM2 (May 10, 2002)

Booboo. F & SR?

Sent from my Ally using Tapatalk


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## NewGround (Dec 19, 2010)

I have no problems with this forum. I skip threads that don't interest me...


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## SquashNut (Sep 25, 2005)

naturelover said:


> This has been suggested by more than one person in this topic, and it's been suggested by other people in previous topics in recent weeks. Under the circumstances I think it's a good idea and could resolve some of the dissatisfaction and division that's been continually growing for the past few weeks. It's very clear that there are people who want to read and participate in the "political sky's falling" and "what if" topics and there's those who prefer to participate in informative "how to prep for...." topics without having to wade through every other non-prep related topic on the board. The S&EP 'how to' aspect of this forum does seem to be getting crowded out by a lot of that other GC & Politics type of stuff, kind of like the forum has become invaded and taken over by some people trying to exert personal control over forum content.
> 
> A sub-forum for current world events that might relate to future survivalism and preparedness would be a good location for Ernie's Bunker Index posts and all of that political or government related stuff that TNHermit keeps on posting, as well as a good place for posting the conspiracy theories and 'what if' gloom & doom topics, and topics about wars and the economy and financial investments that keep on popping up.
> 
> ...


So where would of your thread about the Canadian riots Belonged?


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## mightybooboo (Feb 10, 2004)

AngieM2 said:


> Booboo. F & SR?
> 
> Sent from my Ally using Tapatalk


That was the old forum name? This forum is MUCH better for sure.Way more complete.


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## naturelover (Jun 6, 2006)

SquashNut said:


> So where would of your thread about the Canadian riots Belonged?


You mean the recent riot in Vancouver? I would have put that in a current events category, since it was something that was a societal emergency that was currently underway at the time I first posted about it.

If I wanted to start a discussion about how to be better prepared and what should be done in another such event in the future then I would put that into an S&EP category.

.


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## SquashNut (Sep 25, 2005)

So it would be ok to give the moderator twice as many threads to moderate?


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## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

SquashNut said:


> So it would be ok to give the moderator twice as many threads to moderate?


How would the posts double?

Same posts just in a sub-forum.


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## Mrs. Jo (Jun 5, 2007)

mightybooboo has said what I was going to say. 

If you regulate this forum too much, you will loose it. 

I like this forum, and I like to hear the opinions that people express on what is going on. It's true that some posts can get a little political at times but there are others here who can lighten things up, and it's just hilarious when you guys get to rolling jokes. Way different from other forums that are also geared to S&E. 
Hugs to you all! ~ Mrs. Jo


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## naturelover (Jun 6, 2006)

SquashNut said:


> So it would be ok to give the moderator twice as many threads to moderate?


Are you directing your question to me or to everyone in general?

Angie already has twice as many threads to moderate now, ever since there has been an increase in the political and GC types of topics. The increase in political and GC topics started at the end of April after Angie had to be away dealing with personal emergencies that took her away from the forum more often. I think some people took advantage of her absence to start posting political doom and non-S&EP stuff and now it's turned into a trend. 

The normal S&EP topics don't seem to require a great deal of moderation since they are more along the lines of people offering helpful advice and not arguing or disputing about mundane worldly events in those topics. The political and GC topics are the ones that tend to get heated disputes and need to be moderated more.

.


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## mightybooboo (Feb 10, 2004)

Let me put this in a nutshell,a big one though....We have 10 levels lets say...

Level 1- Newbie,bright eyed and fascinated but cant see why anyone would EVER need to go beyond level 3.And wants everyone else not to exceed that level 3

Level 3,4,5-Got the basics down,got a pantry,water filter,maybe a gun. Cant understand why ANYBODY could POSSIBLY need to go beyond this level and doesnt want to read about it because it just isnt in their sights.Its depressing,unnecessary,.....whatever.

Level 7,8,9- These folks have been around and have really evolved.They see a much larger picture after the basics are done. They WANT to know why,and all the nuances and are willing to impart knowledge unto the less evolved. THEY DO NOT want the less involved/evolved telling them their journey is unreasonable or needs to be limited to their lower level of S&EP.

Level 10- Mad Max,blood running in the streets,take up arms NOW. We may have a few here,but they arent posting,they are the extreme Fringe.

Thats about what it is.


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## naturelover (Jun 6, 2006)

Mrs. Jo said:


> If you regulate this forum too much, you will loose it.


This forum has already been very nicely regulated and nobody was complaining. There are a few new members participating now but recently there are complaints starting about forum content and there have been even more members that used to be regular participants are now no longer participating as much as usual or have just dropped out of sight altogether. That loss of regular long-term participants who used to be happy with the forum should speak volumes to anyone left who still reads here on a daily basis.

.


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## SquashNut (Sep 25, 2005)

Have you ever heard the old saying too many "cheifs and not enough indians"?


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## earthkitty (Mar 3, 2011)

Definition of SURVIVAL

1 : the act or fact of living or continuing longer than another person or thing 

Definition of PREPAREDNESS

: the quality or state of being prepared; especially : a state of adequate preparation in case of war


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## naturelover (Jun 6, 2006)

SquashNut said:


> Have you ever heard the old saying too many "cheifs and not enough indians"?


Yes.  A very common expression, another is "too many cooks spoil the broth". 

Like too many unrelated topics spoil the forum mission.

And on that note I have to leave for work now. I hope this topic will be worked out to an equitable resolve for everyone.

.


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## Smallhomestead (Feb 25, 2011)

I like getting and reading some of the comments sometimes I learn something I didn't sometimes I don't. But after a day working sometimes it gives me a smile to see the arguing going on here and it reminds me life is good. I work at a hospital so I see the worst of the human race some times. Angie thanks for all the hard work you do


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## AngieM2 (May 10, 2002)

As soon as I get in the house and thee big computer turned on there will be some deleting and cleaning up of some of the last several postings. I just caanot do it with the phone easily.

Sent from my Ally using Tapatalk


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## radiofish (Mar 30, 2007)

Well I am gonna put on my headphones and go hunker down in the radio room, while you all hash this issue out keyboard to keyboard... :kung:










Or should I retire to the secret bunker to escape the 'fallout', when someone gets 'nuked' with Angie's Big Computer?? :help:


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## tab (Aug 20, 2002)

Traffic on this site is high. That says lots. Some of the regulars are working more hours in the good weather. 
I see a very vocal minority complining and it seems they also tend to be the ones who make some of the less tactful comments. Not always but there are a couple of definite personality conflicts which rear up often. I can be pretty blind to that and if I see it there must be others. 
The fact that traffic is high means people are reading, maybe not commenting, but I do not comment a lot. In part, this keyboard on my phone is tiny!
I find it ironic that a board that is devoted to thinking outside the box wants more regulation and rules. Not rules of engagement but of topics discussed. Even though many here connect the dots and show relevency to the board it somehow needs further regulation? 
One of the ways these topics keep getting framed is with the term political, yet over and over many here say it is news, no party affiliation, no particular bashing just here it is, it is happening. There are topics that I personally have read about, not agreed with, researched and found validity to a point of view not formally shared. Guess I have expanded and hope others get that chance. If I see a post with a title or by a poster I do not agree with, it usually gets skipped. Painless. If I read something I strongly disagree with, usually I go on to something else. Again, painless. Actually some of those topics give me great motivation to clean the barn {big evil grin} with great speed!


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## AngieM2 (May 10, 2002)

SquashNut said:


> So it would be ok to give the moderator twice as many threads to moderate?


Why don't you let me worry about that. It would not do as you think. Please stop trying to pick a fight


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## SquashNut (Sep 25, 2005)

That is the last thing I want to do. 
I completly understand who the moderator is.
Just trying to make a point.
I think I have had enough of this forum. To many from GC are on here now, no wonder it is starting to remind every one of GC.


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## AngieM2 (May 10, 2002)

SquashNut - don't leave - or just leave for a bit - I have to do some research and see how close to that last statement is true.

I am formulating an idea, but trying to figure out how to implement it.
1. with only what I have here to work with
2. maybe with some changes if approved.

I see two sections here, and there are people who's postings I value on both sides and I don't want either of those groups valued posters to leave.

Maybe I can ask Solomon to see if I should cut the baby in half.

I think I need fabric therapy over this.


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## stanb999 (Jan 30, 2005)

mightybooboo said:


> Ummmmm.....this forum is far tamer from where it started.And has nicely evolved too to include far more people than it did before,Now lets not put in limitations to reverse that back to what it was.



I agree. When I first came to the countryside S&P forum they openly talked about killing and eating zombies...

I actually spent a lot more time in GC. It was much more tame. They would only beat you up. They didn't want to make a dish of long pork!


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## earthkitty (Mar 3, 2011)

I was joking, btw. Trying to add a little levity to the situation.


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## olivehill (Aug 17, 2009)

Didn't read all three pages yet, but I like all those topics. I think they are relevant and I have learned a lot about the 'what' and 'how' from those more versed in certain topics than I. I know how to grow and store food, I know to keep candles and matches in stock, to top off the tank as much as possible, etc. But there are parts of the political atmosphere, certain risks/threats such as EMPs, etc that I don't know all about and I like hearing the news and the thoughts on those things. I can then take that information and do research based on what has peaked my interest here. These things are not my normal focus, so without this forum and the other members pointing them out I may never have even considered it enough to put the time in on the research. I get google alerts for "Agriculture", for instance, but I'm not interested enough in say "Nuclear Energy" to set up one for that. The guys and gals here who keep tabs on that are a line of "defense" for me. And to that end I consider this forum a community. It takes all types to make a balanced community. Everyone's posts serve a purpose and fill a niche.


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## tab (Aug 20, 2002)

stanb999 said:


> I agree. When I first came to the countryside S&P forum they openly talked about killing and eating zombies...
> 
> I actually spent a lot more time in GC. It was much more tame. They would only beat you up. They didn't want to make a dish of long pork!


I do not remember that, must have been before I drifted down. That is kind of nasty.


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## olivehill (Aug 17, 2009)

Hmm, I guess, upon reading more of the posts maybe I am not reading enough of the threads to see what everyone else sees? I have not noticed a lot of bickering here. I saw one thread that was going back and forth over Greece, but I thought those two men handled themselves well. They admitted where they agreed and hashed out the points on which they disagreed without the discussion deteriorating. I see nothing wrong with disagreeing with one another, even if a little "heated". Diversity makes the world go 'round. I like seeing the different perspectives such as in the Greece thread as it makes me think more critically about how I view the situation. Critical thinking is never a bad thing.


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## AngieM2 (May 10, 2002)

I've been reading all the posts - and thinking while doing all those other things one does.

I have an idea, but I have to see if Chuck would go along with it - actually I have 3 or 4 versions of that idea (one must have contingency plans).

And this whole thread is survival on my part (HA!)

If you do not find a news thread - look in the Vault - I'm moving some of them there - it's a sub forum I have now to work with - sub forums are not always easy to come by, and sometimes are very easy to come by - circumstances are everything.

The vault is not being used all that much - since start only one page of threads - so we have room, even if I leave the stickied threads there for the Vault factor.

Right now, no one except myself or an Admin, can start a thread into the Vault, so I'll have to move some from time to time.
This will allow the news folks to have it more consolidated - but it will be seen here first - but once posted, it may be moved there for the discussion.

I'll just have to decide the moved ones.

BUT - the how to be prepared for anything group - you need to step up and get this section back to pre April type of being ready for whatever happened. Help the new comers.
Either bunch can go into either section.

And I'll see about some stuff that Chuck would have to do as head admin person. But it may be at least a week, depends on what computer he has with him and the time he has free between now and about July 4th. He's checking in, but traveling.

I hope you can work with me on this, and give it a try. And something in the Vault is not a free for all - it's current events that are key elements for what we need to prepare for - political slams will still be deleted as I see them.

Only all of us can give this a good try to see if it will work, or one or two can cause it to be a mess, and all of us not trying it can cause it to be a mess.

But - I believe in all of us.

Angie


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## mightybooboo (Feb 10, 2004)

Back to my 1-10 scale.

I see the 1-5 dont want anyone to go beyond that point and dont want to discuss it because they are 'Doom and Gloomers'

I see the 7-9 who do want to discuss it but dont go around labeling all the 1-5'ers as 'sheeple' or anything else.

I see plenty folks self censoring threads that dont appeal to them and say live and let live.

Therefore I have to say this. 

If the 1-5 wont leave the 7-10's alone we will hunt you down and push you through the Chute into the Fema Camp.

We can do this because we know who you are, and also how you think and WHY! You cannot hide,dont even try.

For the level 6 guys and gals who we cant corral we will have to lasso you and shoot you and hang you from a T Post in our front yards as a warning/deterrent for 1-5'ers and JW's and people asking for directions to stay away.

Ok Im being sarcastic. Or AM I? (Insert Vincent Price with wringing hands and an evil laugh here) :heh:  :teehee: :runforhills:


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## earthkitty (Mar 3, 2011)

Angie, I've told you before that I was a mod on another site. I was not the owner of the site, my function was as the heavy; it was my job to keep people in line via private messages.

At that site, we had a similar thing going on. People were bickering, and some wanted the threads they didn't like put somewhere else. So that's what we did, only we called it the basement, rather than the vault.

Well, the people who got relegated to only posting their thoughts in the basement resented it, and didn't stay there for long. Threads don't stay as engaging when there are only a few people commenting, and soon the group split and many left.

My point is when one vocal group complains enough, it sucks the life out of a forum. In my opinion, splitting this forum into one general S&P catageory and a vault for those who want to discuss newsworthy S&P subjects so as not to offend others is a mistake.

Take my opinion for what it is worth...just someone who has been through this kind of thing before.

I am posting this so everyone can see it so that maybe others can see what the divisiveness can cost.


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## Ernie (Jul 22, 2007)

http://www.homesteadingtoday.com/showthread.php?t=375101

*Just to let anyone interested know. This forum is not Politically Correct, and it's Suvival and Emergency Prep.

There is no expectation that all will agree or do things the same way.*


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## AngieM2 (May 10, 2002)

Ernie said:


> http://www.homesteadingtoday.com/showthread.php?t=375101
> 
> *Just to let anyone interested know. This forum is not Politically Correct, and it's Suvival and Emergency Prep.
> 
> There is no expectation that all will agree or do things the same way.*


Hey, did I say that in one of my stronger days? :heh:


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## AngieM2 (May 10, 2002)

Earthkitty - thank you for your experiences. 

But, I guess I'm going to try something like this because I have two options:

1 try this, and it works, or does not work then some leave
or
2. not try this and some of the people will leave for sure - I've a very large PM box, and it's been used today with friends from both view points - all people I value and want to keep here.

and I have one other option - 
Saying to HECK with it, turn off the computer, don't look when the cell phone pings and just sew and come back and delete EVERYTHING in a wild fit. 










So for now - I'm trying to keep all my friends here.


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## Explorer (Dec 2, 2003)

> Saying to HECK with it, turn off the computer, don't look when the cell phone pings and just sew and come back and delete EVERYTHING in a wild fit.


:dj: :thumb: :bow:

Film at 10:00?


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## Wags (Jun 2, 2002)

Forums ebb and flow. It is good to understand the why's and the "what if's" help you prepare for scenarios you hadn't previously considered. 

I don't see a problem with things the way they are.


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## Cabin Fever (May 10, 2002)

earthkitty said:


> ....Well, the people who got relegated to only posting their thoughts in the basement resented it, and didn't stay there for long. Threads don't stay as engaging when there are only a few people commenting, and soon the group split and many left.
> 
> My point is when one vocal group complains enough, it sucks the life out of a forum. In my opinion, splitting this forum into one general S&P catageory and a vault for those who want to discuss newsworthy S&P subjects so as not to offend others is a mistake....
> 
> I am posting this so everyone can see it so that maybe others can see what the divisiveness can cost.


I agree 100%. 

When Homesteading Today first started I believe there were only three forums - Homesteading Questions, Countryside Families and Singletree. Today, we have a couple dozen other forums now, a bunch of subforums, and maybe even some sub-sub forums. Personally, I don't like it. I very rarely participate in any subforums....no time. I have never been to the S&EP Vault!

Some HT forums get so little traffic that some threads are posted in two forums just so someone will hopefully see it and post to it.

Seems like people start threads where they think it will get the most traffic. In Homesteading Questions, we get livestock question (which I could relegate to the appropirate livestock forum), we get prayer requests (which I could relegate to Countryside Families), we get anti-goverment and anti-big buisness threads (which I could relegate to General Chat).....heck, yesterday I answered a septic system thread that was posted in General Chat!

I don't know where I'm going with this, but I feel that S&EP is perfect just the way it is. A nice blend of a variety of topics.

P.S. If we do start another subforum, I would like one on firearms. We get firearm threads on Homesteading Questions forum, Outdoors forum, S&EP forum and General Chat. Would be nice if they were all in one place.


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## Allen W (Aug 2, 2008)

There has been a few times here when things were getting out of hand I was waiting for The Executioner to show. but then I remembered he was on a different site. 

I agree with mightybooboo's line of thinking that there are different levels or attitudes of preparedness here. If you keep too narrow of a focus some people will be left out or out grow the site and not participate as much.


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## snakeshooter1 (Mar 8, 2009)

I don't post much, most of the time I don't even log in. But I come to this forum once a day to read the important things (to me). I have to agree with cabin fever and booboo, there is nothing wrong with this forum. I never go to GC. I have two sources of info to keep me prepared really,this forum and another one. I like knowing what is going on and why it is happening and the things I should do to prepare. Most of the time the current events post leds to a post of maybe you should do this to prepare. Things you can't get from a news source. You do have to know the why as well as what to do to prepare. As someone said when power is out you need to know if it will be 1 hour or maybe forever, that makes a difference in the way you handle it. just my .02


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## tab (Aug 20, 2002)

Might not some of the postings just be part of a normal ebb and flow? 

I also have to say, IMO, if people are resorting to PMs to plead their case, it doesn't sit well with me. Put the info here, let others agree or refute. To me, that is back door "politics".

Ernie, I also thought of that thread. 

If anyone has any doubt about the difference berween here and GC, post some of the same topics in gc and see where the conversation goes. {Shrugs}


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## olivehill (Aug 17, 2009)

AngieM2 said:


> So for now - I'm trying to keep all my friends here.


Have you considered that this is all they _really_ want? To be doted over and catered to? 

Friends -- at least the ones worth having -- don't throw hissy fits and run out on you when they don't get their way.


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## therunbunch (Oct 5, 2009)

Cabin Fever said:


> *I have never been to the S&EP Vault!*



It feels a bit like the janitor's closet. 1/4 page of valued stickies to scroll past before you get to the "doom" that everyone wanted swept out of the way because it doesn't pertain to them. It's good though for reading some awesome posts I've never seen before.


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## therunbunch (Oct 5, 2009)

tab said:


> Might not some of the postings just be part of a normal ebb and flow?
> 
> I also have to say, IMO, if people are resorting to PMs to plead their case, it doesn't sit well with me. Put the info here, let others agree or refute. To me, that is back door "politics".
> 
> ...


I do believe it's ebb and flow.. like I posted earlier, when world events take a chill pill.... preppers will (hopefully) be able to relax a little more.

I do believe, however, that the OP could have PMed Angie instead of posting yet another thread for everyone to argue in. People can pm a moderator and say "I don't like that" and a moderator can take care of it or say "tough luck, nothing to see here". Instead, everyone is attacking or defending and the moderator is stuck in the middle trying to find a way to make everybody happy. That's just my take on it.

Ebb and flow. Just like you said. BUT.. if a new plan works better then hurray for initiative.

And Cabin Fever.. a firearms sub-forum would be awesome, not to mention a good reference and resource.


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## mightybooboo (Feb 10, 2004)

Cabin Fever said:


> I agree 100%.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Agree 100%,but Angie has a point as do others,there ARE posts getting into its ALL the Dems fault for all the economic problems,and besides not being true it also insults half the people here.That is NOT acceptable here,thats GC,Partisan Politics that has NO BUSINESS here,go FIGHT and dog pile at GC,thats a valid point.

The gripe about ECONOMIC threads dont belong here is WRONG! The very reason we are in the situation we are now IS economic,thats the major problem for S&EP right now,and it IS SHTF time for MILLIONS. Just because you are fortunate NOT (YET????) to have been one of MILLIONS shouldnt relegate those folks out of the forum.

Dont like economics,DONT READ THEM.

Economics are very wisely and politely and INTELLIGENTLY discussed here,unlike GC where they arent,and economics IS SURVIVAL.And PREPERATION.

Censor YOURSELF,not everyone else.


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## mightybooboo (Feb 10, 2004)

therunbunch said:


> I do believe, however, that the OP could have PMed Angie instead of posting yet another thread for everyone to argue in. People can pm a moderator and say "I don't like that" and a moderator can take care of it or say "tough luck, nothing to see here". Instead, everyone is attacking or defending and the moderator is stuck in the middle trying to find a way to make everybody happy. That's just my take on it.


another BRILLIANT post and agree 100%


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## mightybooboo (Feb 10, 2004)

tab said:


> If anyone has any doubt about the difference berween here and GC, post some of the same topics in gc and see where the conversation goes. {Shrugs}


Yup.GC is venom to those who dont post to the cliques view.Now a few here dont want Venom,they want passive aggressive and BANNING views/topics they dont like.

Ive gone thru this too where I let some posts that werent 'Christian Enough' according to a few be posted at my place. I said not everyone sees Christianity in the same narrow focus YOU might.

And those folks left.

So be it.A narrow focus *isnt letting everyone else have a say*,and steps all over them to try and placate a few.


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## SquashNut (Sep 25, 2005)

Not to affend any one, but I come here to get information. If I cann't get it here in a format that is use full to me then I move on.
I can see so many people lately doing all they can to infringe on other peoples free speech. it get's old and i don't see any reason to purposely subject myself to it.
It's not personal. And it's not about being or not being some ones freind.


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## Ernie (Jul 22, 2007)

I'm not really interested in dancing around this issue anymore, so let's drag it out into the light where everyone can see it.

Some people do not like political issues being brought to light. If you've been around awhile and you know the political leanings of those folks, then you can probably deduce why.

A couple of weeks ago they made an attempt to shut down discussion of political news and events by talking about how it "wasn't nice" and how it was "doom and gloom". That didn't work out in their favor, so now there's an attack from another direction. I perceive this entire thread as (mostly) a call for me to shut up, or to have Angie shut me up. This thread is partisan politics disguised as "nice". 

If we refuse to talk about the debt crisis, or increasing government tyranny encroaching upon our ability to take care of ourselves then some folks are going to be caught off-guard. 

I'm not here to tell you how to grow tomatoes. We have a gardening forum for that. I'm not here to tell you how to butcher a chicken. We have a chicken forum for that. I'm here to tell you WHY to grow tomatoes and butcher your own chickens. 

As far as I'm concerned, this forum is the lynchpin of HomesteadingToday. Without it, all of the various how-to forums could be spun off into their own worlds and communities and they would never be required to interact. Survival and preparedness brings context into why we do what we do and live the way we live.

That's my closing argument.


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## AngieM2 (May 10, 2002)

Hugs to all of you that are wanting the best for this forum, for it's title object.
And for looking out for me.

We will see, I will not say what happens will make everyone happy, but for now we are tweaking it a little bit, and see how it goes.

Thank you to all those concerned about me in this - I appreciate the caring.



I will say that I have tried to keep this forum friendly and helpful enough that people would not be afraid to step into it, so we can help have people ready for the storm knocking out the power for a few hours, a few days, an longer; or job losses, or anything up to the "Survivalist" of the hard core variety demolition of our way of life and the extreme happening.
But I have accented the everyday, mostly likely happenings.

Unfortunately, if you watch the news these days - the weather is having fits with floods (gates of dams being opened) starting in Canada, and coming down the US. This is effecting the food supply - and we've been first hand notified by people there. Starting at the top of this flood with Tracy Rimmer in Canada, and various friends here and news stories down the River network of flooding and crops not going in.

And no one can say that the cash flow in our lives has not been effected by the current state of the economy. Unfortunately, the world is connected and a collapse in Greece and those countries that are tied together can cause a domino effect that can effect how far our purchasing power goes as the dollar flexes through out the world, and our incomes do not increase to cover the additional dollars needed to purchase the same amount of goods.

The government is being excessive (my take and several others take on things), and does not seem to want to stop. This is both sides. BUT, at this time the man at 1600 Penn Av, is a Democrat - so that gets mentioned. That is not to say, there may be lots going on that is both R, D and I. It is stuff we have to live with whether we believe they are right or not. For me - I do not believe in what has been happening with this government. 

Do we really know what we are preparing for? Who does.

We are walking a very fine line, and it seems to be getting more narrow. Living life daily and just being "normal", or seeing the possibility of being in a position to take care of ourselves and/or loved ones being more difficult to achieve.

So doom and gloom - maybe. Hope - for me, it's getting harder to believe in, as my 401K only is a positive cash flow due to the 50% matching the company puts in, or else I'd loose funds - this is a rebuild after a 2 year no job stretch - 

for those of you who are working to get the land to have a small place to grow something for long term "Survival and Emergency Prep", it's getting harder to get, it seems.
And for all those unexpected events (tornadoes, job losses, and fires to name a few) we have to be ready enough to roll with those punches with what we have, the best we can.

We are the good news if we want to be - we see people handling events due to things covered here, and ones learning about something that may show what would keep them in a world of hurt if they did not know about it and prepare for it.

There have been more news items, I have questioned some of them via PM and they were to show what's happening so YOU will be ready in case of inflation, money being screwed up, etc. 

So, maybe I've changed some - and maybe that's being reflected here. 

I still think we need to mostly prepare for the everyday disasters - bad cuts at home cooking; bad weather dropping a tree on your roof, no water, too much water - but maybe this SHTF we've and other sites have talked about for years, seems to be in motion; or maybe everything is as it has always been and the news coverage is better.

The only way not to participate in some level is to go to "the Village" as in the movie and that takes a lot of money.

This thread is closed - I'll only promise to do the best I can - and hope we all stay sane.

Angie
PS: Ann did pm me, and I was going to ask and find out this information as I've seen the changes. So please do not dump on her too much for asking before I did. I needed to know how the population felt about things - you've told me. Thank you.


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## AngieM2 (May 10, 2002)

> "I'm not here to tell you how to grow tomatoes. We have a gardening forum for that. I'm not here to tell you how to butcher a chicken. We have a chicken forum for that. I'm here to tell you WHY to grow tomatoes and butcher your own chickens.'


I came back to say - this is one person's opinion, and I do hope we continue to be strongly in the helping each other on how to have the stuff ready for when we need it. The other forums are helpful for this, but that does not put it out from here. That having food, as the recipes and such threads, are good for knowing how to use what we have.

There were two or three posts, I did not see, before that post where I said closed.


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