# Breeding son to mother



## InHisName

Is it a problem to breed a son back to the mother, and to his sister? They are not show, just personal dairy, he is a beautiful buck.


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## cowgirlracer

If you are doing it just to make mother and sister freshen you will be fine. I would find another buck for any does born from this breeding.

Anne


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## ShyAnne

I was told Mother/son is ok but not to do brother/sister.


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## HappyFarmer

It really depends on what you will be doing with the kids. That's some close inbreeding there, and depending on prior inbreeding you may have some monstrosoties from this breeding, so be prepared. Any and all imperfections and perfections will be magnified in the kid crop.

If the kids are going for meat, no problem whatsoever. If you'll be selling to others, well you may have trouble selling such closely inbred goats. 
HF


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## woodsman

ShyAnne said:


> I was told Mother/son is ok but not to do brother/sister.


I was told the same thing but then later I found out that genetically speaking there is no difference between breeding father to daughter, mother to son or brother to sister - they all share 50% genetic similarity.


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## marytx

Look at the percentages of one parent you are putting in the offspring. If you consider that the buck takes 50% of his genetics from the dam, and he passes half of that to his kid, with the mom passing another 50%, you have 75% genetics coming from this one animal (the little bucks' dam) to the new offspring. (in a kid to dam breeding)

Breeding sibling to sibling would actually be better, imo, because you would have 50% of each grandparent again in the offspring.

That said, I wouldn't want to do either. You can pick up a weanling buck fairly inexpensively this time of year and have new blood in your herd at breeding time.


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## InHisName

there has been no prior inbreeding at all- no relation on the parents side. What would I look for for problems? (checked out and article on Dairy Goat Journal and they said lack of stature, fertility, productivity) The buckling and doeling are the best of the herd, in temperament and conformation, the mom is an excellent milker. I just do not have access to another LaMancha buck withing 2 hours of here. Does temperament pass on? Another question- I have a doe that is smaller, rather the runt of twins- but other than that, no problems. Will it be a problem to have her bred? Isn't that how mini manchas are brought about?


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## RosewoodfarmVA

Be aware with inbreeding you will exaggerate both the good traits and bad. In other words, if there are any health issues shared by both, they will be worse in the offspring. Having said that if we have a buck that we like or throws great kids we will often keep him for 2-3 years, and then replace him by one of his offspring, so that over that time he has probably bred several of his daughters, and the new buck is prob. related to several of the other young does. We have never had any problems doing this and for any herd, inbreeding is the fastest way to multiply traits in certain animals that you want. I wouldn't do it several generations, but one time certainly won't hurt. Just get fresh genes for the next time (in other words, 50% is ok but not 75%).


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## goatkid

I've bred half siblings, but not full siblings. I have a beautiful Nubian doe who is the product of mother to son breeding. As far as shape and attachment of udder and general appearance, this doe excels. She does not, however, put as much milk in the bucket as my less related does. I noticed that issue in another doe I had who was the product of breeding a doe back to her sire. Amy problems you may encounter would depend on the lines you're using. Everything I've got has gotten pretty related, so this fall, I will be buying another buck.


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## steff bugielski

I have always bred father to daughters and grand daughters no problem. i have this year a doeling from a mother son breeding. She is great so far. We will see when she freshens.


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## KSALguy

people who think inbreeding "creates" problems put to many human morals into the equation, inbreeding does not "Create" monstrositys anymore than any other breeding does, 

what people forget is that any time you breed any animal you have the possibility of something going wrong or some genetic traite showing up you didnt plan on weather the two animals are related or not, 

what Inbreeding does is take the genetic material you have available and if enough breedings are done your able to sort through the genetic material and cull out the bad and keep the good, you actually make progress in a breeding program doing this, if you want to improve your heard you get the best possible buck to breed, you keep him if he is the best and continue breeding him to the best of his daughters, if he has a son that is even better than the original buck keep the son and use him in your breeding program, 

if you bring in a new buck with unrelated genetics its like takeing a whole deck of new cards and shuffling them in with your already sorted deck removeing all predictability and improvement possibility

you HAVE TO CULL CULL CULL CULL CULL in ANY breeding program, people think that if you breed two unrelated animals you will be fine and wont have any problems, all this means is you are breeding two unknowns togather, and could be passing on genetic defects that will be un known untill you bump up agains another unknown that has a similar quality,


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## HappyFarmer

Here is a good article on linebreeding/inbreeding:

http://www.goatfolks.com/Boer_Goat_Linebreeding_Article.html

Although I agree with everything you are saying Kalsguy, the theory is based on using the best of the best to improve the breed you are working with to achieve an even better kid crop. Something I'd recommend if there was a larger selection of goats to choose from. In this case it sounds like there are but a few, not selected for particular traits (i.e. not show goats but personal dairy goats).

This is not something I'd recommend for someone who isn't familiar with the traits of their breed for overall improvement. For just milk, or extra freezer meat, I'd say go for it. For improving a herd one should start out with animals with exceptional qualities, and improve from there, and even then there will be culls, culls, culls, and more culls. (i.e. bad traits, degrading vs. improving traits, possible monstrosities such as parrot mouth, cowhocks, pendulous udders, sterility). 

In his name, breeding down is how some of the mini's came about. Breeding a larger buck to a smaller doe can cause some problems. For that reason smaller bucks are often used on larger does to breed down in size. And *yes* you'll always get someone who did it the other way and there were no problems. The question is are you willing to lose your doe over it if she can't pass those larger kids?

HF


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