# breading a 21 y/o mare



## columbiasc (Sep 4, 2009)

Hey all,
DD is going to get a Arabian mare soon as a gift. The owner kinda wants to get this mare bred before we get her. The mare has never foaled before, is this a good or ok idea? The horse is a gift so we really have no say more or less. The owner is kinda 'iffy' about setting up the date week for the mare.
The mare is a 21 Y/O arab, the stud is an arab as well.
Ideas about health ect.


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## columbiasc (Sep 4, 2009)

P.S. next week is the time for LOVE.
Columbia,SC


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## GrannyCarol (Mar 23, 2005)

It's not a great idea, she's awfully old for a first timer. On the plus side, it's likely she won't conceive anyway.


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## MARYDVM (Jun 7, 2004)

Why would she breed an old maiden mare and then give it away? Is she expecting you to raise the foal and then give it back to her? Who's responsible for vet bills, training, etc? Doesn't sound like a gift I'd want to take.


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## haypoint (Oct 4, 2006)

Mares that haven't been bred for a few years and are older are unlikely to get preg.


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## Countrystyle (Aug 24, 2003)

Long story short- we didn't get our colt cut fast enough and my 22 yr old mare foaled last July. The only other foal she had was in '93. Big whoops! Both of them are fat and sassy. I did apologize to her though. 

I'm with Marydvm. Why breed her and then give her away? Why put the old girl through it and risk losing them both?


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## starjj (May 2, 2005)

Madien mare equals headache to begin with so I couldn't guess why anyone would want to do this with a 21 year old horse. IMO BAD idea


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## malinda (May 12, 2002)

I agree, bad idea. The owner will probably spend alot of time and money to get her to conceive, and could end up with problems and much frustration. Personally, I wouldn't do it. The mare seems like a great riding horse, why take the risk of complications with breeding an older, maiden mare?


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## SFM in KY (May 11, 2002)

The first mare I had we tried to breed a couple of times when she was about 8 or 9 years old and she didn't take. Didn't ever try again. However, the year I got married, when she was 19, she got out of the pasture and went "visiting" ... something she had never done before ... and the following spring she had a foal. Surprise to EVERYONE.

She had three more foals after that (by choice) before my Dad said "enough" ...

She's the only maiden mare I've tried to breed that late in life but she had absolutely no problems with any of them.

That said, an older mare is likely to have more problems, less likely to conceive and carry full term. If the owner is giving her to your daughter, I can't imagine why she would be wanting to breed her at this point. If the bloodlines are something she doesn't want to lose, I'd think she'd keep the mare and try to get the foal on the ground to keep before giving her away. 

And unless you and your daughter are experienced with horses and particularly with foaling and raising a foal, I would think it would not be a good way to start.


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## Judy in IN (Nov 28, 2003)

I've seen some really nice horses given away in Craigslist this last year. (Arabs too)

I've got 3 mares here that just may die as maiden mares. 

There are TOO MANY HORSES right now. 

People need to STOP BREEDING HORSES for awhile. 

When you stop finding "stray" horses in your pasture or in your trailer, would be a better time to breed.


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## ErinP (Aug 23, 2007)

Am I the only one who opened this thread thinking we're gonna eat horses? 




So far as breeding her, I don't think I'd try it either. 
I won't go so far as to say breeding is bad right now. I mean if I were breeding for a horse that I would keep, I want one from one of our current mares just because I know what they'll look like, temperament, ability, etc. 
But I sure wouldn't do it to a 21 year old...


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## deineria (Aug 22, 2009)

LOL! Erinp!

No, I wouldn't do it at that age or at all without some superior bloodlines in both horses, and still, I wouldn't consider it with a mare at that age - maiden or no, esp. maiden.
Also, you could probably pick up a yearling Arab for under $500 without the risk, that needs a home, if you're wanting the baby experience - skip the headache. My two cents.


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## karenbrat1 (Jun 25, 2009)

If the owner intends to keep the foal from this mare then she should simply keep her until she foals or pay for all the expenses involved. You did not say what the owner intends to do about that. It can get very expensive to get and keep an older mare pregnant especially if she is maiden or hasn't had a foal for a long time. Just to give you an idea of what problems you may encounter...

I bred my then-23 year old Arab mare 3 years ago and she had not had a foal for 15 years. The stud fee was very reasonable but mare care (board) cost more than the stud fee, and the vet work cost almost twice as much as the stud fee/mare care combined. She did not take on the first try so we short-cycled her and then started giving her Regumate right away, 3 days after the second breeding, good thing because as it turned out she was not producing enough progesterone on her own and would have slipped the embryo. Had to keep her on it 110 days and then the blood work showed she WAS producing enough so I could discontinue the expensive Regumate... which costs $4 (or much more depending on how expensive your vet is) PER DAY if you're buying it from a vet, or about $2.50-$3/day if you buy the litre bottle from KV Vet Supply. Then there is the feed... it costs a lot to feed a horse anyway, and an older mare is probably going to need a LOT extra to keep her in shape through pregnancy. My mare did fine for the first two trimesters but then began dropping weight and having terrible itch problems to where she rubbed herself bloody. (The other horses had no problems.) She was getting plain grain (sweet feed) but on my vet's advice I started her on Equine Senior and worked her up to the recommended amount daily (which is a lot) in addition to free choice hay. After foaling she still looked tired, dull and had not gained much, on a friend's advice I added both Dynamite vitamins and Source micronutrients to everything else she was getting, finally a month or so later she began regaining gloss, weight, and stopped itching. However before that, at two weeks after foaling it was apparent she was not producing much milk so I had to give her the stuff that kick starts milk production, and shortly thereafter, everything started going well. Now to me, it was worth it, this mare was the daughter of my first Arab, I still have this mare's son who is 18 this year and the best horse ever, and I wanted another just like him. I got a perfect chestnut filly who is athletic as heck and has a terrific personality, exactly what I wanted.

I actually didn't add everything up to the penny (denial you know) but I am certain I had well over $3000 in the foal before she was born. Then it's going to cost even more to feed the foal until weaning age. So who is going to pay for all this? You or the mare owner? What if the mare dies in foaling? And you will not be able to ride her for some months toward the end of her pregnancy, and then after birth you will also have to take the foal everywhere you go with her. (Not an issue for me, I pony mine all the time, but some people don't want to deal with that.)

Just make sure you and the owner are in complete agreement about every aspect of the situation, preferably in writing, if you choose to go ahead with this.

Karen B in northern Idaho


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## PlowGirl (Nov 16, 2005)

Is this mare really a gift or is it a free lease? It sounds as though you're being asked to absord the costs of keeping this mare, while in foal, in exchange for the few rides your daughter will get before the mare is too heavy in foal. Will you get the mare's registration papers upon taking possession of her or will they be withheld until she foals? Who gets the foal?

As Karen said, you should have all this spelled out in writing. If you're not comfortable with leaving the details all up in the air, then you can keep looking for a better match.

You can just look on Craiglook and see literally pages and pages of beautiful, well trained, well bred Arabians for pennies on the dollar. If you just look on your local Craigslist, you're missing hundreds that aren't too far from your area.


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## Joshie (Dec 8, 2008)

ErinP said:


> Am I the only one who opened this thread thinking we're gonna eat horses?


I also wondered why one would put a bread coating on an old horse.

Call me suspicious but I have the feeling that the owner isn't really giving this horse to your daughter. A gift is a gift. Is the current owner won't own the horse anymore what interest would he/she have in breeding?

Breeding a 21 year old horse is like me having my first child in about six months. I'm almost 46. Call me crazy but I'm too old for that. I can't imagine carrying my first child at that point. Think about all the extra risks humans have over the age of 35.

There are so many horses out there now and too few buyers... look at all the rescues. There was someone here who found a nice horse in their pasture recently.

http://horses.about.com/library/calcs/blagecompare.htm


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## columbiasc (Sep 4, 2009)

A great big thanks to everyone,
this is the set up. If she does get bred, the owner is still iffy about doing it right now. We will get her after she is 'bred' ride her in the spring and summer shows, she will go back to the owners ranch and foal and stay there till weened. After that she will come back here to stay as ours perminetly. Owner will pay all the costs to vet and raise the colt and keep only the colt. This is a good woman we trust, she has already given us so many things in training and great buys on equipment.

To summerize this deal, she keeps the horse for a couple more weeks, we get the preg. horse to use in the 4-h and open shows, after they are over she takes the horse back. Raises the foal with the mother, weens it from the mother and we get the horse back to keep. She will pay all vet bills not us. I am not wanting to have the horse bred but it is not our horse right now. We will get all of the papers on the horse when we get her back. Owner will keep the foal, we keep the horse.
It sounds like a fair deal to me, she will house the horse during the winter before/after she foals, then we get her back to keep.


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## FarmerChick (Dec 28, 2009)

bad idea first time old mare
I am surprised the owner would want to do this actually?
hmmm

but best of luck it all turns out well for you.


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## columbiasc (Sep 4, 2009)

She loves this horse very much, and she is not real sure what to do,, I don't know how to give her all of the info all of you have shared with me so she can decide what to do. 
But this lady is pretty smart and loves the mare so much. I think she will not bred her but who knows. She just lost a very loved dog who died after birthing a single puppy, so she is real 'iffy' on this. She paid to have a C-section on that dog,, both mother and pup died days later.


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## southerngurl (May 11, 2003)

> breading a 21 y/o mare


You add a little salt and pepper and she'll be fine! :hysterical: Sorry, I couldn't resist.


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## Jay27 (Jan 11, 2010)

Judy in IN said:


> I've seen some really nice horses given away in Craigslist this last year. (Arabs too)
> 
> I've got 3 mares here that just may die as maiden mares.
> 
> ...



AGREED! Too many horses... just because this horse is special to the owner doesn't mean she is special enough to breed... if she was, it should have been done 10 years ago!


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## lamoncha lover (Mar 1, 2009)

It is the ladies perogative to breed her senior citizen horse.Esp since she plans on keeping the foal in a horse glutted market. Is it smart? I wouldn't do it. No way. If i loved my horse I would never want to expose a maiden old mare to all the risks.
Besides I like chicken breaded:>)


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## Gailann Schrader (May 10, 2002)

Don't do it. Arabs aren't exclusive anymore. And lots of Qhorse folks will tell you not many people like them (I do, however). Go to FHOTD to check out some of the bad BYB (Back Yard Breeders) and what happens.

You'll most likely kill her breeding her.

Go to a nice horse sale and get a $50 colt (or get a freebie - there are lots around) or a $150 finished horse if you want company for the mare.

PULEEEEEEZE don't make another horse. 

...and I'm voting for an entire pallet of cornflakes to bread her correctly...


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## GrannyCarol (Mar 23, 2005)

I wanted to add that I had a friend breed her older (but not nearly that old) Arab mare and lose her mare and the foal when the birthing went bad. I wouldn't want to be a fear monger, but it's not really a good idea. My friend was devastated - she bred her mare for much the same reason as your friend and lost her favorite horse. Can you tell your friend that you looked into breeding older horses and discovered there is a significant risk to the horse?


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## southerngurl (May 11, 2003)

I also have a fried who's older mare died in birth- that is, they had to put her down. It was very traumatic, it was a mare she had had from it's birth.


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## SFM in KY (May 11, 2002)

columbia said:


> We will get her after she is 'bred' ride her in the spring and summer shows, she will go back to the owners ranch and foal and stay there till weened. After that she will come back here to stay as ours perminetly. Owner will pay all the costs to vet and raise the colt and keep only the colt.


With this situation, I don't really see any "downside" for your daughter. The decision to breed or not is certainly the owner's decision to make. Nobody else can know her reasons. But the arrangements you mention, if the mare is bred, should not pose difficulties for you or your daughter.


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## offthegrid (Aug 11, 2009)

Jay27 said:


> Just because this horse is special to the owner doesn't mean she is special enough to breed... if she was, it should have been done 10 years ago!


My thoughts exactly. It shouldn't take 21 years to decide if she was breeding material. If I were considering buying the horse I would decline at this point. Not only does it not make sense to breed a 21 year old maiden mare, but it is an inconvience to you, and especially if she suffers a breeding/foaling injury....who takes the horse then?


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## ErinP (Aug 23, 2007)

Ya know, the more I ponder this the more I think,
I don't care _how_ old she is. You're going to have a heck of a time gettin' her in the Fry Daddy. :shrug:


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## springvalley (Jun 23, 2009)

I`m with many that have posted before me, she will not breed more than likley. And 21 yr old, don`t think I would put her through that, So My vote is don`t do it and if he tries don`t take her. This has trouble all over it. Thanks Marc.


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## ShyAnne (Jun 18, 2008)

There is also the possibility that the mare will not be able to be shown and ridden during her pregnancy. Its a gamble to breed her , breeding always is, but at her age more so. 
IF the owner intends on breeding her maybe you can suggest a good equine reproduction clinic where the mare can be checked before she gets bred. Then that clinic will also care for the mare during gestation should a problem arise. 
If she does get in foal I hope all goes well for her.


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## bergere (May 11, 2002)

Old horse, Maiden mare and you want to use it in 4-H. 

I haven't seen it posted here but some mares, lets just it say there are personally changes in a mare, specially with their first foals. 
Most of them I have seen them go from calm in relaxed..to something that wasn't very pleasant to ride. They get what I call a Mama-Mare to be temperament. They would react to things that normally won't bother them, mother natures way of protecting the mare in foal. Not something I would have a child ride.

The risks are very high to breed a mare that old as a maiden. Everyone talks about when everything goes right but many times things can and do go wrong. The loss of the mare or foal or both. And major big Vet bills to go with it.

One of my friends did a breed lease because a lady wanted a foal out of a certain mare,, well needless to say both the Dam and foal during birth died. The lady would not pay for for the mare's foal or part payment for the loss of the mare and everything was in writing. My friend lost a wonderful mare with an excellent temperament and blood lines, she was out nearly $25,000 loss for just the mare alone. Plus the cost of the foal, Vet costs and all future foals from that mare.

Personally... I would go shopping for another horse, with no strings attached.
Would be less stress and cheaper in the long run.


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## columbiasc (Sep 4, 2009)

Thanks again,, like I said I have no control over what happens (breeding wise). I am going to foward this to my wife's E-mail and hopefully she will pass on the info. We just lost dear old Strawberry and not wanting that to happen again so soon. I even said no more old horses for us, 'BUT' this one is better than we could ever afford to buy. Those darn 'buts' are going to break me for sure! haha cry cry.


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## Joshie (Dec 8, 2008)

columbia said:


> To summerize this deal, she keeps the horse for a couple more weeks, we get the preg. horse to use in the 4-h and open shows, after they are over she takes the horse back. .


Foaling is hard work. This is an old maiden mare. I highly doubt that an older mare would be able to show during her first pregnancy.

What if you were 46-50 years old and pregnant for the first time. Would you be able to endure extra work? I'd bet you'd spend a lot of time in bed. I think that this poor, old girl deserves a break. 

This deal _might _be a good deal for you (although it doesn't sound good to me at all), but it certainly isn't a good deal for this mare.


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## Mare Owner (Feb 20, 2008)

I say go for it, it sounds like basically a free lease situation for this year and next year she'd be gifted to you after the baby is weaned. The mare is owned by someone else, so they are the ones who have the right to decide whether or not to breed her.

The only caution I would give is to not overly stress the mare soon after she's covered, by hauling her a lot of places, until she's a couple months along. If she's already a great riding mare, most likely she will continue to be and most mares can be ridden up until the last few months of pregnancy as long as they maintain excellent health.

There is a risk that you'll get very attached to the mare and if the worst happens, won't get her back next year. But odds are most likely all will work out fine, and you'll have had this summer of riding and enjoying her.

My husband had good luck with his stallions, getting old mares in foal over the years, and the fewer foals they'd had the easier they bred and stuck as twenty-somethings.

Life is risky, but you gotta live it.


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## JimB (Feb 1, 2010)

I am with them on to many good horses out there to breed anymore. But that said I know a fellow in colorado an old rancher that had a horse he ranched on for prob. 18yrs and kept another 10 yrs or so anyway when the horse died because he and the horse had spent so much time together and were best friends he has the hide on the wall his way of honoring his pal. So why breed an old lady like that some people are definatly different.


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## SFM in KY (May 11, 2002)

Joshie said:


> Foaling is hard work. This is an old maiden mare. I highly doubt that an older mare would be able to show during her first pregnancy.


Again, with the understanding I've only had one older bred maiden mare to judge by, my ranch mare that was one of our "working ranch horses" and the best cow horse we had on the place was bred, successfully, for the first time at 19 but we did not know she was in foal.

My Dad continued to use her "normally" ... she'd been retired from the all-day rides in rough country at that point, but was the horse of choice for any close cattle work and sorting and cutting cattle is not easy work. She had no problems at all. Light work is actually better for a broodmare (of any age) than standing in a stall or small pasture.


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## Shoupie (Mar 21, 2009)

You're not getting her for free, your basically paying for her board for a year, and taking care of this potentialy nightmare of a situation. If you do decide to procede you need to outline *EVERYTHING* in writing about who pays for what care, how many hours are you allowed to ride her(and if that can change) who is responsible if the foal is lost, who will be responsible for transporting the mare and vet costs, will she have access to the mare at all times, etc etc etc. My advice pass her up there are a lot of good old horses out there and a lot of good young ones too. For the ammount you'll be spending to feed and care for her and the baby the first year you could easily buy a younger ready to go horse with no ties.


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## columbiasc (Sep 4, 2009)

Shoupie said:


> You're not getting her for free, your basically paying for her board for a year, and taking care of this potentialy nightmare of a situation. If you do decide to procede you need to outline *EVERYTHING* in writing about who pays for what care, how many hours are you allowed to ride her(and if that can change) who is responsible if the foal is lost, who will be responsible for transporting the mare and vet costs, will she have access to the mare at all times, etc etc etc. My advice pass her up there are a lot of good old horses out there and a lot of good young ones too. For the ammount you'll be spending to feed and care for her and the baby the first year you could easily buy a younger ready to go horse with no ties.


please re-read my OP and my later posts. I will take on none of the vet/feed/and extra costs. We will have her while/if preg during the summer, then return her to foal. I will take care and feed her while she is here in the summer. We will return her 'if' she gets bred and 'if' it takes. In the fall and winter, the 'owner' not me, will feed and vet her from then till the colt is weened. Then the horse and her papers will be ours. Free of charge. If she does not bred her we will be getting the mare in the next few weeks/with her papers free and clear.
Thank you for thinking of us!


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## Lisa in WA (Oct 11, 2004)

I know your daughter already loves this mare, Columbia and I'm sure, as SFM thinks, that it will all be fine. She's a lucky mare to have the love of your little girl.


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## farmmaid (Jan 13, 2003)

Now, let me make sure I understand this..............
1-breeding a mare for the first time at age 21
2-exposing this mare to trailering to and from shows
3-exposing this mare to all the diseases that are at shows
4-exposing this mare to all the stress in training and showing
5-setting your daughter up for a VERY possible "horror show" during all of this

....................IF this mare MUST be bred:bash:, leave her home and trail ride her!!!!


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## Lisa in WA (Oct 11, 2004)

farmmaid said:


> Now, let me make sure I understand this..............
> 1-breeding a mare for the first time at age 21
> 2-exposing this mare to trailering to and from shows
> 3-exposing this mare to all the diseases that are at shows
> ...


Oh please... It's not like Columbia's daughter is doing 3 Day events. She's showing at 4Hshows for goodness sakes. And I'm sure that such a treasured mare is up to date on her vaccines.


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## farmmaid (Jan 13, 2003)

Lisa.....Read the origional post, Columbia asked for information, I gave some. Your opinion is different BUT I can have mine!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I have owned over 100 horses in my life time, delivered over 50 foals, ridden in Class A Arabian shows on the east coast , and gone to 4-H shows with our sons in the 56 years I have had horses, I know the risks shows offer. As you know, shots are not 100% effective, some have a protection period of only 2 months and there can be kicking when horses get crowded. Trailer stress, trailer accidents. Has the mare been trailered a lot? Accidents can happen in a pasture, but the % of possibility a bad outcome, given this situation, is raised greatly. I would be thinking of the mare AND the daughter......again my information as Columbia asked for from forum members.


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## wr (Aug 10, 2003)

farmmaid, while I don't get out much, I'm not sure I get your point. 

1. The mare will or will not breed but in either case but it's not a big old thing but in either case that is really up to her. I've bred older mares and all went very well.

2. A horse that age has probably seen a few miles and can cope with a few miles in a trailer or at least my old gal can. It isn't like the child is heading off for 4H regionals just yet. 

3. Diseases at shows? I'm not sure where it was said that the mare would not be vaccinated so why would we assume she's at risk for disease?

4. I don't know about your 4H but mine is pretty low stress. Attend a few clinics on horsemanship - left lead, right lead and if things advance maybe sidepass. I'm not really of the mind that beginner pole bending and the egg in a spoon race are going to cause her any undue hardship. That seems a whole lot less stressful than roping 50 calves at a branding or sorting steers. 

5. Horror show? Again time spent in the pole bending or the egg and spoon race should not require psychological treatment for either mare or child. We don't require a sports shrink until at least the junior level. 

Would it be better if the mare were simply put down or left to feel useful? I have an older gal and I'm more than comfortable with the idea that her outstanding skills are being used give a child confidence and a horse with a purpose lives a whole lot longer than a horse on a shelf. While I may not have shown Arabs, I'm pretty up to date on 4H and it's really not a big deal.


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## DixyDoodle (Nov 15, 2005)

Consider that this horse has not been accustomed to birthing or being a "mother". It may be stressful to her....imagine a 71 year old woman having her first child, this is approximately how old your mare is in human years. The risk of veterinary intervention (in other words, big $$$$) during and AFTER this pregnancy is higher than normal. You are not getting a "deal" by taking this on. You may not have this mare til "after" but the costs could still be there for months/years later.

However, here's a link that may help you determine if it is "worth it" (scroll down to "Is My Mare Too Old"). Note the complications that can occur.
http://getbreeding.com/category/mare-fertility/

***edited to add: When I posted this, I saw there were 2 pages of replies, not 5, so I apologize if I mentioned anything that was already noted.


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## DixyDoodle (Nov 15, 2005)

> To summerize this deal, she keeps the horse for a couple more weeks, we get the preg. horse to use in the 4-h and open shows, after they are over she takes the horse back.


I don't understand, what is the deal for the owner here? 

I would get something in writing to be sure that you are really NOT paying any vet bills and that your are not responsible for any miscarriages, etc. incurred while riding her---things may change if vet bills rise and she starts finding blame in others. And the owner is paying all the feed and vet bills during this time? Why is she not keeping the horse in her own barn until she just gives the horse to you? I would make sure that the horse is actually going to be given to you in the end.....it sounds like maybe the owner is a bit wishy washy about the whole thing. Almost like she doesn't quite want to give the horse away, but still wants a foal out of it.

How long is she going to try to breed her before she gives up and hand over the mare? Is there a time limit? Are you financially responsible right after the birth? Are you getting the mare with the foal still on her, or after it's weaned? What if the mare has post-op problems, who pays that? I would definitely get it ALL in writing.


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## columbiasc (Sep 4, 2009)

thank you all for your posts,
a few of you understand the 'deal' some not so much, but I thank all of you for your concern. DD had a 4-H horse meeting tonight and the 'owner' was there' with DD. They talked about the breeding and the 'owner' asked DD what she thought quote 'since this is your horse now'. DD knew I had done a lot of research and was not for it. 
She gently let 'owner' know she was worried about the mares health. As far as I know the breeding will not happen because as 'Owner' said she loves the horse and DD. 
DD does not want it to happen and they both are concerned about Dahlie's health. So I think this will turn out good.

Others asked why, what will she (Owner) get out of this deal. She knows we are going to baby this horse like she did/does, she is a full time student and this horse is older now and 'owner' likes to do show jumping events. She does not want to sell her to just anyone and knows we will take great care of her forever and can come visit anytime.
She also gives DD English lessons for free and saw how our other animals are treated. She feels comfortable Giving this great horse to us/DD knowing she will be well loved and treated for the rest of her days.
Thanks again, Columbia,SC


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## DixyDoodle (Nov 15, 2005)

Ok, how weird, now I'm seeing just the 2 pages of posts again....must be a computer glitch.....is it possible to get 2 pages stretched into 5???? Anyone else seeing that? ***Edited to add: Argh....it did it again, 2 pages when I log in here, goes to 5 AFTER I post a reply???? 

So columbia, you are just getting this horse without a breeding now? Be sure that you get something saying she is yours free and clear. If your DD is getting free riding lessons with no strings attached, consider yourself very lucky. When are you getting her, or do you already have her?


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## columbiasc (Sep 4, 2009)

OM goodness I am so bummed out right now.......
I just wrote a huge post and I lost my connection to the NET and lost all of it!!!!! CARP CARP CARP
let me try to start over and shorter here.

We don't have the horse right now, but she has been offered to us over the last 7 months as a free gift. The owner does not want to Jump this horse anymore due to age and owners size,,she is not extra heavy but she knows DD can take over with less stress on Dahlie's joints. She is training DD for free and she works both of them fair but hard. DD will listen to her better than she will listen to us. She always questions DD,, are you right ,, on this or that,, DD better be right or she does it again. DD laughs and tries so hard to get it all right. 
This lady is teaching DD riding and the mental aspect of what she needs to learn. It has paid of so far, DD won a buckle on an English horse doing western pleasure against some pretty well trained 'push button' horses,, in her first and only show so far. 
This lady has also given and sold us some great tack, she also has taught DD how to stretch out Dahlie's legs and groom her before and after a show. More than we ever knew.

As far as owning this horse, where we live, who we are, a strong look in the eyes and a nod of the head is all we need. A hand shake seals the deal for sure! We will get all of the paper work when we pick up the horse, have not set a date yet.

Thanks again for all of the ideas and help. Look forward for pictures and updates soon.
Columbia,SC


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## briddygirl (Feb 7, 2010)

I have a 14 year old Oldenburg mare....excellent breeding, father was FEI champ....I would have LOVED to bred her b/c she's in the Oldenburg Breeding book as a Premium Mare.....with that said, I've consulted my vet who specializes in breeding and foaling, etc. and she said that she's really on the verge of being too old to breed without chancing difficulties.....I'm not willing to take that risk b/c I really treasure this mare....she would have made an excellent mom, too! So sadly she will have to be a "adopted mom" to some of my ponies instead......


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## Guest (Feb 21, 2010)

ErinP said:


> Am I the only one who opened this thread thinking we're gonna eat horses?





Joshie said:


> I also wondered why one would put a bread coating on an old horse.


I would think a 21 yo horse would be a little tough and stringy!


southerngurl said:


> You add a little salt and pepper and she'll be fine! :hysterical: Sorry, I couldn't resist.


Don't forget the gravy.


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## columbiasc (Sep 4, 2009)

just an update, we are going to figure out a date to ride down and pick up Dahlie. The days are crazy for DW and 'Freind'. I would like for both to be there but they both work odd hours and we can't afford for DW to take a day off. 
It is a 1 1/2 hour ride down in the Ozarks so we will have to take it easy on the ride back. I always feel better when DW (Kelly) is with me. She is my crutch against the outside world. We aren't sure of the date but it will be soon for sure I think. DD is chomping at the bit to say the least. 
We will have to do some cross fencing to let everyone get used to each other for a few days. Dahlie does not like DS's mule and he thinks he is the head of the heard. This is going to be a SHOW for sure! 12.2 HH mule and a 14.1 Arab head to head,,, tonight on ESPN2 back to you. 
She is the boss mare wherever she is, he is the boss mule around here. Her size may take him down but his youth may be a factor. I am going to keep them apart for a while and just see how it goes.
I think she is just what he needs to 'put him in his place' but who knows.
Both of them are so sweet alone but they have a little bad blood between them. My bets are on Dahlie, she has all of the other horses around her in check.
Thanks again for all of the ideas and help.

P.S. the dead horse jokes do not really help and are not all that funny,,,I just put down a very loved old mustang 2 days before Christmas (she is my Avatar) ,kids ,wife and I cried and still morn the loss. The Vet was not involved in it at all, so all I am asking is to please lay off.


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## ErinP (Aug 23, 2007)

> P.S. the dead horse jokes do not really help and are not all that funny,,,


Yeah they are, I promise. 

BTW, we had our 29 year old die just before Thanksgiving. I'd only known him 15 years, but my husband had had him since the day he was born. It's hard to lose the great ones, isn't it? Orion was one of those go-anywhere, do-anything cow ponies. Right up until a week before he died.

The jokes have nothing to do with the age of the horse and everything to do with mis-spelling "Breeding."
You typed "Breading." As in, to bread something to fry. 
Most typos are just typos, but sometimes they're downright amusing.


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## beccachow (Nov 8, 2008)

Agreed, let them get to know each other across the fenceline, but my money goes on the mare everytime.

I am really glad the owner changed her mind about breeding her. SHe might be a fantastic horse, but fantastic horses are all over without putting an older sweetheart at risk. For some reason, my neighbor chose to trailer his pregnant purse-winning TB somewhere during the latter stages of her pregnancy, and she fell or did something in the trailer (never found out what) and lost the baby. Thank goodness she survived. She was never able to be bred again. Just not worth the risk, in my very VERY humble opinion. All that said, it ultimately is up to you and the owner to decide. I also am very leery of anty arrangement where the owner can come back and take the horse, no matter what the reason, for the sake of your daughter's heart.

Best of luck!


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## columbiasc (Sep 4, 2009)

ErinP quote 'Most typos are just typos, but sometimes they're downright amusing'.
I guess you did not know we just lost a dear old girl.

I guess I should go back to school and learn to spell better to avoid this error, 
I misspelled 'breeding' in the tittle of the post. I can not mention how happy yours and other post makes me feel joking about the death of our horse. 

It was crazy fun/funny for me laying on the ground in the freezing rain till 3:30 in the morning giving her sips of water and hand feeding her till I went to bed. Did I mention the holes her legs dug in the rocky ground while trying to get up all night? The holes where about 10" deep and about 20" long in a elliptical shape. I went to bed praying she would either be dead or standing in the morning. Neither was true, she was there digging to get up.

The best part was seeing the grey/blue smoke coming out of her skull just behind her left ear where I shot her. 
Oh yea, I forgot to mention the little 'notes' my children wrote and left on her mane, 'WE love you Strawberry'. 'You are the best horse ever'! ( that one was mis-spelled also but he is only 7). I did have to cover them before putting her down. Just before putting her down I fed her 14 pcs. of apple knowing each one brought both of us closer to the end.

But even better than that was having the stupid neighbor ride by and yell to me after I put her down,, I did not turn around until he blew the horn several times. I had the rifle at my side and turned towards him in the freezing rain, tears running down my face and knowing he heard the shot across the pasture while loading his wife in the old Caddy.. he asked did she die? 

I really thank God for the sensitive people like him and you. I am honestly sorry for your husbands loss also. I wish I could find something 'funny' about the whole thing but I just can't. God loves you and I am trying.
Columbia,SC
I will try spell check in the future.


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## southerngurl (May 11, 2003)

Uh.. I never joked about a dead horse, I joked about a misspelling of BREEDING a horse. 

Sorry about your mare.


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## wr (Aug 10, 2003)

columbia,sc, I'm sorry you're taking something personal that isn't. I work in contracts all day and all day, I'm required to have 100% accuracy but when I post here, I really don't worry about it and we've had a good laugh over a few of my typos. This has less to do with the spelling police and a whole lot more to do with simply finding humor in the moment.


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## columbiasc (Sep 4, 2009)

I speak my mind also but there is a time and place for everything, not everyone knows or knew about our loss. The jokes hit kinda hard, we are still hurting from our loss. I got my answers and that is all I needed, thank you all.


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## Guest (Feb 23, 2010)

columbia said:


> I guess I should go back to school and learn to spell better to avoid this error,
> I misspelled 'breeding' I can not mention how happy yours and other post makes me feel joking about the death of our horse.


Umm, I didn't know you were posting about a dead horse. I wouldn't have joked if I had known that.


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## columbiasc (Sep 4, 2009)

to all above, sorry if I put you in a 'bad place'. didn't mean to. Not everyone knew about our loss and I took this post a little to hard in those areas.
Strawberry was very dear to us and I got a little sideways on the jokes.
You didn't know, and that's ok. Hope we can all still be friends again.
Columbia,SC


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## wr (Aug 10, 2003)

I'm sure glad you see it in the spirit it was intended.


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## ErinP (Aug 23, 2007)

> I misspelled 'breeding' in the tittle of the post. I can not mention how happy yours and other post makes me feel joking about the death of our horse.


I think you've completely lost perspective. 
Or you're wallowing. One of the two. :shrug:
Neither is healthy.
No one was talking about _your_ horse. 
We were talking about the horse you're wanting to _bread_. (Which you don't even _own_ yet!) 
And I would point out, _I_ sympathized with your loss. 
You mocked mine... 


Orion was a member of our family. (And to top it off, we'd lost our old basset hound (whom we'd had since before our 10 year old was born) two weeks before, and my dachshund, my constant companion, whom we'd had for five years, about a week after. It was a rough fall at our place)
I have a bunch of pics in his thread, here, a day or two after he died.
He was a working cow horse which means he was also a partner as well as pet. 

He was nearly_ thirty years old_! My children don't remember a time when Orion wasn't out in the horse pasture. Shoot, my _husband_ barely remembers that time!
He was that horse by which all others have always been judged. And found wanting.

I haven't done horse chores since he died because I _hate_ going out there... Bless Travis that he's willing to shield me from them. 
For years, whenever I've seen our bunch, I've always done a head count. Just to make sure everyone is okay. Habit. 
It catches me every time to see that he's missing.

It was heart-breaking to see our other horses mourn him as DH carried him out of the pasture in the bucket of the tractor. One of the mares wasn't going to let him go out without her. She was literally pressed to the bucket, walking with the tractor. The pony, his best buddy for about eight years, kept chasing everyone else away...protecting him I suppose.

And my kids... Orion was always the Holy Grail of cowboy-dom. Til the day he died, he required a fairly experienced rider. They knew that when they could handle him in a small space, they were coming along as riders. 
Not to mention, they both were riding Orion with dad even before they could walk! 

He's not the first horse we've lost, but he's definitely the best. 
Anyone who's known more than a few horses in their life knows that there are only one or two truly great ones they'll be fortunate enough to know. Orion was ours.



However, all of that said, as painful as it was to lose him (painful still and probably will be for years yet to come)-- It doesn't mean I've lost my perspective or ability to see humor... We were joking on the day he died. Watery, tear filled jokes, but jokes nonetheless. 
And I certainly don't get bent out of shape when people crack jokes about _someone else's horse_. 



> Strawberry was very dear to us and I got a little sideways on the jokes.
> You didn't know, and that's ok. Hope we can all still be friends again.


I have no doubt that it was absolutely _agonizing_ to have to put your horse down. No doubt. It's hard enough just to watch the vet do it. 

I honestly hope you have regained some perspective... 
This thread had nothing whatsoever to do with _your_ horse anymore than it did mine. Because the fact is, even if I _had_ known you had to put your horse down a couple months ago, it wouldn't have made a lick of difference. I'd still have cracked the exact same jokes... The visual image of breading a horse is just too good to pass up.


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