# Dealing With 'Bonkers' People...



## JeepHammer (May 12, 2015)

We are a week from local elections, so it's a little worse that usual...
And it's raining, so farmers might have the morning off.

This morning, I went to town, had a cup of coffee and a banana nut muffin with the guys having coffee at 6:00AM and watch people come & go.

The first conversation I heard was about the hybrid car gassing up...
Not an Electric Vehicle (EV), but a hybrid.
The conversation went to 'Electric Cars' not being 'Real Cars'.
Highway speeds, enclosed passengers, licence plates, it's a 'Real Car'.
... Bonkers...

I got poke at because my banana nut muffin was 'Liberal'.
If I was a 'Real Man' I'd have a donut or bear claw...
'Liberal' baked goods... Bonkers...

Then the conversation rolled around to a particularly bad road that's needed resurfaced for years, which the complainer live on and complained about constantly,
The state finally resurfaced it, and he was complaining about being held up getting to town BECAUSE they were fixing the road, and calling the workers 'Idiots'...
... Bonkers....

There is a reason I don't go to town often....


----------



## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

Anything that isn't what the majority beleive is wrong, donchaknow.


----------



## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

JeepHammer said:


> There is a reason I don't go to town often....


So once again, others are the ones who are wrong simply because they don't agree with you.
Nothing new there.
Patterns never change.


----------



## AmericanStand (Jul 29, 2014)

You are granted the right to complain in the constitution ,some people take more advantage of that than others.


----------



## JeepHammer (May 12, 2015)

Irish Pixie said:


> Anything that isn't what the majority beleive is wrong, donchaknow.


I stay out of it most times...
Doesn't take a majority, all it takes is two or three willing to holler & shout everyone else down.

Having coffee is always an 'Experience' around here, nothing like the, "I read it on the interweb so it must be true!" bunch...

The last time I went there, one guy had a big anti-abortion sign he put up right next to the highway, a vehicle crossed the centerline and hit another vehicle and they wound up hitting his sign. 
He as SURE it was a plot to run his sign down... And was loud enough for long enough everyone had to hear it...
Two people in intensive care, another in serious condition, two newer vehicles totaled, and it was a conspiracy to take out his $50 sign...
... Bonkers...

The 'Triggered' topic around here for the last year or so is the 112 year old cast iron water main that runs down 'Main' street.
Like all small towns that got a bypass, Main Street is virtually dead, all 5 blocks of it.
A block at a time will be closed and it will take 5-6 weeks to replace.
The water main breaks 2 or 3 times every winter, it's pretty much a series of patches, and the city wants to replace it.
The designed life was 40-50 years, it's 112 years old... 3/4 of town does without water when it breaks, has boil orders, etc, and if there are four people in the room when the subject comes up there will be screaming and shoving matches....
Then last three patches on cast iron cost as much as replacing the entire run of water main over the 5 blocks, and the state/feds will pay for 80% of the replacement.
... Bonkers...

I don't know what some people are thinking, I just chalk it up to 'Bonkers' and let it go at that...


----------



## mreynolds (Jan 1, 2015)

I like the coffee shop myself. I'll Wade right in with both guns blazing and get 'em riled up. Then quietly pay my tab and leave. 

But I would never do that here.


----------



## Cornhusker (Mar 20, 2003)

The old farmers tend to gather at the cafe in town, and as old farmers tend to do, they try to out complain each other.
We call it "The ain't It Awful Club"


----------



## anniew (Dec 12, 2002)

I noticed at my weekly lunch group gathering that most of the conversation is negative. I'm thinking it is time to change groups, or just forget it.


----------



## JeepHammer (May 12, 2015)

Cornhusker said:


> The old farmers tend to gather at the cafe in town, and as old farmers tend to do, they try to out complain each other.
> We call it "The ain't It Awful Club"


In the mid 90's when I was building a business, I used to hit the morning coffee group and just sit & listen.
When I heard a complaint about something I could fix/make a buck on I'd chime in.
I got to be the 'I know a guy', guy, fixing electrical problems and doing welding, rebuilding starters, alternators and automatic transmissions (the only things I had tools for at the time).

The conversations were about who had how many acres planted in what, who was ahead in harvest and what their yield was per acre, who was down with medical issues and would need help, what was broken and needed 'Fixin', etc., And the ever present 'What's For Sale'.

Now, 20 years later, it's politics, the latest internet conspiracy theories, etc.
The reason I don't go much anymore.

This could be described as the 'Horrible Wives Club', they complain constantly about wives,
And it drives them INSANE when I brag on my wife, and occasionally their wives since I run into them where they work.
Drives them bat-crap crazy!

I just found "Liberal Baked Goods" particularly ridiculous...

I'm old, I need the fiber, so it's (banana-nut) fiber muffins for me, 'Real Man' or not, I NEED to stay regular! 

Otherwise I might get backed up, get cranky and confused and believe electric cars aren't 'Real Cars' and State highway workers resurfacing roads were just there to hold *ME* up from getting to coffee 2 minutes sooner... 

Them being backed up might explain why they are full of crap & complaining all the time...


----------



## mreynolds (Jan 1, 2015)

JeepHammer said:


> In the mid 90's when I was building a business, I used to hit the morning coffee group and just sit & listen.
> When I heard a complaint about something I could fix/make a buck on I'd chime in.
> I got to be the 'I know a guy', guy, fixing electrical problems and doing welding, rebuilding starters, alternators and automatic transmissions (the only things I had tools for at the time).
> 
> ...


Do we go to the same coffee shop?


----------



## Cornhusker (Mar 20, 2003)

Since I go to work at 5:30 in the morning, and the nearest coffee shop is 2 miles from my house, I don't get to go anymore.
A small town near me doesn't have a coffee shop, cafe or anything like that, so they meet every Wednesday morning at 9:00 at the fire hall to drink coffee, eat rolls and exchange gossip.
I wish they'd do that on a Saturday.


----------



## doozie (May 21, 2005)

My most recent bonkers experience was in a home improvement store, person comes up to me talking about a botched repair on some implement. I thought he thought I was someone he knew at first...went on to talking about his experience in the military killing people, and how if he wanted to he could kill the repairman, from semi normal conversation to bonkers in just seconds.
I told him I hoped it wouldn't come to that and moved along...turns out he is a "regular" that has to be shooed away from the store for bothering customers.


----------



## no really (Aug 7, 2013)

Sounds a lot like where I go for coffee once in awhile. It's always fun, different opinions and experiences. The conversation never lags that's for sure. LOL


----------



## JeepHammer (May 12, 2015)

mreynolds said:


> Do we go to the same coffee shop?


Fuel stop, coffee shop, diner, every rural/farm town has one or two.
All the same, early risers soaking up liquid courage to face the day.
I give them all the credit for getting up early and getting stuff done rather than being couch potatoes that sleep till noon and play video games...

What's changed is the topics,
It used to be what seed worked this year, trying to guess if it's going to be wet or dry next year, who is having issues and needs help,
Now it's trying to figure out if the guy is going to die and how cheap they can pick up the land/equipment for when the widow can't make it...

Calling my neighbors, and customers, 'Liberals' or 'Communists' doesn't to anyone any good...
When the snow falls, I plow the older folks and widows driveways since I'm plowing a mile of my own, and digging out where they county snow plow piled it up in everyone's driveways.
When the guy down the road spent 6 weeks in the hospital I mowed the yard. On my mower it took 10 minutes and it was one headache his wife dealing with a CP child and him in the hospital didn't have to worry about.
10 minutes once a week sure wasn't going to bust my schedule or budget.
And when I get to the end of my driveway I'm 100 yards from his yard...

About 10 of my friends sitting around because they didn't have anything else to do, all workers, and a week of rain in the forecast, we went up the road, set trusses on a garage build and got sheeting and most of the time on the roof before it rained (for a week!).

One short day, lots of hands, easy work, bored anyway... Why not?

On the other hand, I did have one of my pear butter with red-hots jars not seal yesterday...
I'm so sick of pears this year it's not funny, I was hoping they would all seal and get stored until the pear 'madness' wore off.
That's a 'Big Issue' at my house over morning coffee...

---------------------



doozie said:


> My most recent bonkers experience was in a home improvement store, person comes up to me talking about a botched repair on some implement. I thought he thought I was someone he knew at first...went on to talking about his experience in the military killing people, and how if he wanted to he could kill the repairman, from semi normal conversation to bonkers in just seconds.
> I told him I hoped it wouldn't come to that and moved along...turns out he is a "regular" that has to be shooed away from the store for bothering customers.


That's what I call a 'Red Flag' experience.

Thought, Word & Deed.
First you think it,
Then you say it,
Then potentially do what you talked about...

Most are just venting (Past 'Bonkers' to talk about murdering someone) but a few do, so I take it seriously.


----------



## mreynolds (Jan 1, 2015)

JeepHammer said:


> Fuel stop, coffee shop, diner, every rural/farm town has one or two.
> All the same, early risers soaking up liquid courage to face the day.
> I give them all the credit for getting up early and getting stuff done rather than being couch potatoes that sleep till noon and play video games...
> 
> ...


It has changed somewhat but it was always bad during elections and primaries.


----------



## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

mreynolds said:


> It has changed somewhat but it was always bad during elections and primaries.


The problem is that the election cycle does not end here.


----------



## mreynolds (Jan 1, 2015)

painterswife said:


> The problem is that the election cycle does not end here.


Here either or seems.


----------



## AmericanStand (Jul 29, 2014)

Jeephammer we may both live in the same pocket of morons. 
My village had much the same problem as yours except for about 20 years ago our main street was repaved 
Right after that the village got a grant to replace all the old abestest waterlines with new plastic lines. 
Not wanting to tear up the main line underneath the brand new pavement they simply connected few blocks of the old aBestos lines with the new lines. 
Think of it as the crossbar that connects the two legs of a H
With the legs being where the smaller distribution lines come off
Technically I don’t live in town so I don’t usually say anything but after a couple years of listening to the same arguments I asked them if there was any reason that the connecting line had to go under main Street ,couldn’t it go pretty much anywhere?
Apparently there were more meetings and big arguments about whether that was feasible before they asked the water man what he thought it would take to do it
His reply was a classic
“ Well I’d have to open two valves and close two valves”

Turns out when they had built the new system they had put a bypass in an alley a half a block over from Main Street but nobody had told the water guy to turn on the bypass and turn off the old main. so he hadnt.


----------



## JeepHammer (May 12, 2015)

No kidding, when politics/religion bleeds over to what we drive, if the water main gets replaced or not,
And for crying out loud, "Liberal Baked Goods" it's gone too far...

The water main issue here isn't just split down political parties, but the two biggest churches have taken it up... That pretty much ensures the 80% cost grant will expire and they'll be in the same boat for another decade or more.

I remember when it was pictures of kids/grandkids, and maybe livestock,
Ford vs. Chevy vs. Dodge pickup,
Red tractors vs. blue tractors vs. green tractors,
Corn vs. Beans,
Square hay bales vs. round hay bails,

The only speculation was how much rain we were going to get and what grain prices/meat prices were likely to do.
The only gossip was who got new kids/grandkids, who got new equipment, who was going hunting or found the most mushrooms.

Complaining was usually centered around how old/bad the coffee was. 
(usually while getting another free refill!)


----------



## mreynolds (Jan 1, 2015)

Well @JeepHammer, to be fair, I have seen recipes that said to "liberally" sprinkle salt.


----------



## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

doozie said:


> My most recent bonkers experience was in a home improvement store, person comes up to me talking about a botched repair on some implement. I thought he thought I was someone he knew at first...went on to talking about his experience in the military killing people, and how if he wanted to he could kill the repairman, from semi normal conversation to bonkers in just seconds.
> I told him I hoped it wouldn't come to that and moved along...turns out he is a "regular" that has to be shooed away from the store for bothering customers.





JeepHammer said:


> That's what I call a 'Red Flag' experience.
> 
> Thought, Word & Deed.
> First you think it,
> ...


The man that doozie had an encounter with is a "red flag" for exactly the reasons you indicated. Many will never become a danger to themselves or others, but some could.


----------



## macmad (Dec 22, 2012)

Human nature and free speech can be quite messy.


----------



## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

Irish Pixie said:


> Many will never become a danger to themselves or others, but some *could*.


Anyone "could".
That's a poor excuse for ignoring due process.


----------



## Cornhusker (Mar 20, 2003)

painterswife said:


> The problem is that the election cycle does not end here.


You ain't kidding


----------



## Cornhusker (Mar 20, 2003)

JeepHammer said:


> No kidding, when politics/religion bleeds over to what we drive, if the water main gets replaced or not,
> And for crying out loud, "Liberal Baked Goods" it's gone too far...
> 
> The water main issue here isn't just split down political parties, but the two biggest churches have taken it up... That pretty much ensures the 80% cost grant will expire and they'll be in the same boat for another decade or more.
> ...


If you want to start a ruckus, tell them some tractors are painted green so they can hide in the weeds while the red ones do all the work.


----------



## JeepHammer (May 12, 2015)

Cornhusker said:


> If you want to start a ruckus, tell them some tractors are painted green so they can hide in the weeds while the red ones do all the work.


Wait till I see the John Deere boys again!


----------



## Evons hubby (Oct 3, 2005)

What color was them snakes Johnny boy? They was green an yaller... Don't rember the rest but it was a cute song when I was a tyke. Something about a lil kid having eaten some snakes. It always pops in my head when the green and yellow tractor debates start.


----------



## Alice In TX/MO (May 10, 2002)




----------



## barnbilder (Jul 1, 2005)

How great is it that we can live in a place where we can sit, sit now mind you, and drink covfefee, and complain about trivial things?


----------



## newfieannie (Dec 24, 2006)

it's likely the same everywhere. just around the corner is the mall and about 15 or so men gather there every morning at the food court. seems like they are having the biggest kind of argument. but after a few hours when they leave to go home they are the best of friends and telling each other they will be in again tomorrow. sadly we've lost 6 of them this year. ~Georgia


----------



## mreynolds (Jan 1, 2015)

barnbilder said:


> How great is it that we can live in a place where we can sit, sit now mind you, and drink covfefee, and complain about trivial things?


First world problems.


----------



## Mike in Ohio (Oct 29, 2002)

Reading this thread makes me grateful for my local place. Mostly light banter and joshing. Some talk about auctions in the area. In the Spring complaining about the rain delaying planting. Come June it's complaining about raining preventing making hay. Come fall it's complaining about rain delaying the harvest. If somebody had an accident, some talk about that. Not as much bonkers talk as y'all seem to have.


----------



## D-BOONE (Feb 9, 2016)

the only conversation around my morning coffee is the pot gurgling my avatar is serious DO NOT EVEN GRUNT AT ME UNTIL MY SECOND CUP.


----------



## Darren (May 10, 2002)

I fixed that problem. I remove my hearing aids first. Then smile and nod my head after I set down.


----------



## JeepHammer (May 12, 2015)

D-BOONE said:


> the only conversation around my morning coffee is the pot gurgling my avatar is serious DO NOT EVEN GRUNT AT ME UNTIL MY SECOND CUP.


I had my first cup of coffee headed to the coffee stop. 
No signs of life before coffee, jump-starts the brain, kick-starts the colon .

Add a bran muffin with the same fiber content as a palm tree trunk and it keeps you on schedule!


----------



## geo in mi (Nov 14, 2008)

Well, it used to be that way at the Teapot Dome, but three or four things happened to change all that. John, the owner used to sit at one table all morning, smoking cigarettes and not lifting a finger--the girls had to do all the work. He used to frown a lot and all the guys turned pretty negative just looking at him. So, pretty soon there was just one table of grouches sitting there arguing and bragging--whenever you walked through the door, they'd turn around and look you over, frowning, as if to say, Whatt'r you doing here, in OUR place?
Another thing, they had a western omelet on the menu, so that if you were brave enough to go in there, you'd leave with your hair and jacket thoroughly soaked in the acrid smell of fried green pepper. Whew.

And until the statewide "No Smoking" law here in Michigan, the place pretty much reeked of cigarette and cigar smoke--only thing missing was a spittoon alongside the counter next to the grill....
And for thirty of the thirty-six years that I've known it, they sold fishing bait....And they stored the cartons of red worms and nite crawlers in the walk in cooler next to the stack of eggs....and, for that many years, too, I don't think John ever supervised the grill cleanup at the end of the day--it got pretty greasy. How the county board of health lady let it go, I don't know....(well, maybe I do...)
John finally gave it up. He could sit home and smoke cigarettes just as easy, or maybe go to the Hard Times Cafe in Decatur and sit there until Laurie would run him out. Then, April bought the place for a song. She cleaned it up, made a shelf of...teapots,no less, about a hundred of them surrounding the whole room. She got some new tablecloths, AND, she changed the menu. You can get Texas toast and four pieces of bacon with your eggs. And she got a huge ladle for the gravy, too. And homemade jams--of the local fruits, blueberries, peaches, raspberries, and cherries to spread on your toast. And a new, three egg omelet of bacon, and cheese, and sausage--no more stinky fried green peppers. And steak and eggs, and a Sunday brunch. Last week I had a real, pot roast with gravy, green beans, and potatoes. Delicious, made me sleep all afternoon.

Yessir, things have really changed at the Teapot,,,,er, April's Gourmet Country Kitchen. The guys don't come in and grouch around much anymore. You see, they have to bring their wives with them.



geo


----------



## alleyyooper (Apr 22, 2005)

I love our biweekly brunch meeting although they did change the times they were held during the summer due to me.

We talk of price of coyote pelts, who had been fishing where and what they caught. How was my Saturday car show did we get an award.
Who's farm was having new coyote problems and how were our widow woman fairing (mikies, Barb & John.s, Cheryl.)
The new waiter and how he was doing remembering our favorites.
Some times we have a new bullet we tested and want to share our experince with them.

 Al


----------



## DaisyDuke (Nov 21, 2017)

JeepHammer said:


> We are a week from local elections, so it's a little worse that usual...
> And it's raining, so farmers might have the morning off.
> 
> This morning, I went to town, had a cup of coffee and a banana nut muffin with the guys having coffee at 6:00AM and watch people come & go.
> ...


No there not real cars because there not driven by real people ROTFL. I get so much BS for my hybrid car (I've always had diesel trucks before) my friends laugh and ask if it can drive over snowflakes. Now the snowflakes are trying to be my friend because they think I'm trying to save the environment, nope I only care about what's minted in my pocket. 
After I totaled my last truck I was without a vehicle for a while and just wanted something economical to take my kids to activities, karate, music lessons etc. Although I live in a 'city' most of their activities are still a half hour too forty five minutes away. I figured I'd save some money and get a hybrid instead of getting another truck while living in an apartment. So yeah I can kind of 'get' the mindset of electric cars not being real cars, because they can't do what a real car can do. Heck my hybrid can't do what a real car can do but it serves its purpose of getting my kids safely to their social lives without my going broke over fuel. I plan on keeping it once we move to our house and getting another 'farm truck' to serve that purpose when the time comes.


----------



## AmericanStand (Jul 29, 2014)

Mike in Ohio said:


> Reading this thread makes me grateful for my local place. Mostly light banter and joshing. Some talk about auctions in the area. In the Spring complaining about the rain delaying planting. Come June it's complaining about raining preventing making hay. Come fall it's complaining about rain delaying the harvest. If somebody had an accident, some talk about that. Not as much bonkers talk as y'all seem to have.


Your post reminds me of the story about the 2 travelers asking the man beside the road what the next town was like. The man beside the road asked the traveler with the last town was like.And when the traveler replied that it was full of hypocrites and bigots the man beside the road said yes you’ll find the next town to be like that.
When the second traveler asked the man beside the road what the next town was like he again asked that man what the last town was like in that traveler said it was a wonderful place full of helpful people doing their best to make it in the world and The man beside the road replyed you will find the next town to be much like that.


----------



## Evons hubby (Oct 3, 2005)

geo in mi said:


> Well, it used to be that way at the Teapot Dome, but three or four things happened to change all that. John, the owner used to sit at one table all morning, smoking cigarettes and not lifting a finger--the girls had to do all the work. He used to frown a lot and all the guys turned pretty negative just looking at him. So, pretty soon there was just one table of grouches sitting there arguing and bragging--whenever you walked through the door, they'd turn around and look you over, frowning, as if to say, Whatt'r you doing here, in OUR place?
> Another thing, they had a western omelet on the menu, so that if you were brave enough to go in there, you'd leave with your hair and jacket thoroughly soaked in the acrid smell of fried green pepper. Whew.
> 
> And until the statewide "No Smoking" law here in Michigan, the place pretty much reeked of cigarette and cigar smoke--only thing missing was a spittoon alongside the counter next to the grill....
> ...


And in your mind this is a good thing? Now where can grumpy, cigarette smoking, fried green pepper loving, or combinations of the above, people go to enjoy themselves? Is not America large enough to accommodate everyone? I find it sad that large groups of our citizens have been pushed out of everywhere because of their political stance, style of dress or choice of lifestyle.


----------



## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

macmad said:


> Human nature and free speech can be quite messy.


Yes, it can. But rights are funny things, yours end when mine begin. A "red flag" person who escalates to "becoming a danger to themselves or others", can be evaluated for psychiatric problems in what is commonly called a 72 hour hold. It's a protection for the individual and the community.


----------



## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

Yvonne's hubby said:


> And in your mind this is a good thing? Now where can grumpy, cigarette smoking, fried green pepper loving, or combinations of the above, people go to enjoy themselves? Is not America large enough to accommodate everyone? I find it sad that large groups of our citizens have been pushed out of everywhere because of their political stance, style of dress or choice of lifestyle.


Seems those grumpy old men did not pay the bills. In fact they just may have been the reason that other customers were not paying the bills.


----------



## Evons hubby (Oct 3, 2005)

painterswife said:


> Seems those grumpy old men did not pay the bills. In fact they just may have been the reason that other customers were not paying the bills.


True enough, in this particular instance but I've seen many cases where smaller establishments are legislated out of the game. We used to have a smallish diner with a pool room attached, great place and hangout for the local fellas. When our state banned smoking in restaraunts.... Poof it was gone. Same thing with the other pool hall that served sandwiches.


----------



## mreynolds (Jan 1, 2015)

painterswife said:


> Seems those grumpy old men did not pay the bills. In fact they just may have been the reason that other customers were not paying the bills.


Nor leave good tips. I've seen some of those guys sit for hours, drink coffee, and leave a quarter for a tip.


----------



## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

Yvonne's hubby said:


> True enough, in this particular instance but I've seen many cases where smaller establishments are legislated out of the game. We used to have a smallish diner with a pool room attached, great place and hangout for the local fellas. When our state banned smoking in restaraunts.... Poof it was gone. Same thing with the other pool hall that served sandwiches.


A good law to be passed. No reason that workers should have to work in a place where other people are smoking. Obviously the business was not good enough to weather that regulation.


----------



## coolrunnin (Aug 28, 2010)

Okay where are these guys going instead?


Yvonne's hubby said:


> True enough, in this particular instance but I've seen many cases where smaller establishments are legislated out of the game. We used to have a smallish diner with a pool room attached, great place and hangout for the local fellas. When our state banned smoking in restaraunts.... Poof it was gone. Same thing with the other pool hall that served sandwiches.


Pool hall always has a crowd standing outside puffing away lol


----------



## Evons hubby (Oct 3, 2005)

painterswife said:


> A good law to be passed. No reason that workers should have to work in a place where other people are smoking. Obviously the business was not good enough to weather that regulation.


That business was quite prosperous for over fifty years prior to that regulation! There were no employees being forced to endure anyone's second hand smoke. (Slavery was outlawed here same as everywhere else over 150 years ago.) nobody else was forced to be there either. Just a nice community gathering spot for free people to grab lunch, shoot a bit of pool, play some cards and enjoy themselves... "pursuit of happiness"


----------



## Evons hubby (Oct 3, 2005)

coolrunnin said:


> Okay where are these guys going instead?l


Most go home and abuse their wives now...  if the tolerant left can be believed.


----------



## Evons hubby (Oct 3, 2005)

coolrunnin said:


> Pool hall always has a crowd standing outside puffing away lol


Most likely the very same crowd that would be inside smoking if allowed to be.


----------



## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

Yvonne's hubby said:


> That business was quite prosperous for over fifty years prior to that regulation! There were no employees being forced to endure anyone's second hand smoke. (Slavery was outlawed here same as everywhere else over 150 years ago.) nobody else was forced to be there either. Just a nice community gathering spot for free people to grab lunch, shoot a bit of pool, play some cards and enjoy themselves... "pursuit of happiness"


So you say. If it was such a good businesses then a simple no smoking reg would not cause it to go bust. Other business have proven that premise wrong.


----------



## Evons hubby (Oct 3, 2005)

painterswife said:


> So you say. If it was such a good businesses then a simple no smoking reg would not cause it to go bust. Other business have proven that premise wrong.


When your customer base is thrown out in the cold, it takes a real bite out of your business. Let's say drinking tea and coffee were outlawed in public, how long would a Starbucks last?


----------



## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

Yvonne's hubby said:


> When your customer base is thrown out in the cold, it takes a real bite out of your business. Let's say drinking tea and coffee were outlawed in public, how long would a Starbucks last?


Try again. No one was throw n out in the cold. Their business was not selling smokes.

There business was also not supplying a place to smoke.


----------



## coolrunnin (Aug 28, 2010)

Yvonne's hubby said:


> Most go home and abuse their wives now...  if the tolerant left can be believed.


Cool story bro.


----------



## Evons hubby (Oct 3, 2005)

painterswife said:


> Try again. No one was throw n out in the cold. Their business was not selling smokes.


Their coffee drinking, sandwich munching, cigarette and cigar smoking customers were no longer allowed to drink their coffee, smoke a cigarette and visit with their companions inside the building.... Yeah they were tossed out in the cold by this "oh so tolerant" legislation. And yes, they did sell smokes, blended tobacco products, even rolling papers. Right along with running a bait shop! They also provided spittoons for the smoke free tobacco users.


----------



## coolrunnin (Aug 28, 2010)

Yep smoke a stogie go in shoot pool it's all good


Yvonne's hubby said:


> Most likely the very same crowd that would be inside smoking if allowed to be.


----------



## Evons hubby (Oct 3, 2005)

painterswife said:


> Try again. No one was throw n out in the cold. Their business was not selling smokes.
> *
> There business was also not supplying a place to smoke*.


 that's where you are dead wrong! They were providing a setting for people to relax and feel comfortable. Trust me on this.... There is nothing comfortable about having to go outside for a smoke!


----------



## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

Yvonne's hubby said:


> Their coffee drinking, sandwich munching, cigarette and cigar smoking customers were no longer allowed to drink their coffee, smoke a cigarette and visit with their companions inside the building.... Yeah they were tossed out in the cold by this "oh so tolerant" legislation. And yes, they did sell smokes, blended tobacco products, even rolling papers. Right along with running a bait shop! They also provided spittoons for the smoke free tobacco users.


The only thing they couldn't do is smoke. Must have been a lousy business if they couldn't stay in business without smokers. Millions of other businesses have proven they could.


----------



## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

Smoking in most public establishments is illegal, it's a health hazard to non smokers. In many states it's illegal to smoke in a car with a minor, it's a health hazard. In some places it's illegal to smoke outside, it's a health hazard to non smokers. Smoking is a known health hazard, if you (collective you) want to kill *yourself* do in it in private.


----------



## Evons hubby (Oct 3, 2005)

painterswife said:


> The only thing they couldn't do is smoke. Must have been a lousy business if they couldn't stay in business without smokers. Millions of other businesses have provenn they could.


When the vast majority of your customer base make their livings growing tobacco and use tobacco? Try again.


----------



## Evons hubby (Oct 3, 2005)

Irish Pixie said:


> Smoking in most public establishments is illegal, it's a health hazard to non smokers. In many states it's illegal to smoke in a car with a minor, it's a health hazard. In some places it's illegal to smoke outside, it's a health hazard to non smokers. Smoking is a known health hazard, if you (collective you) want to kill *yourself* do in it in private.


Why can't we collectively kill ourselves inside a nice comfortable coffee/sandwich shop? No one was forcing anyone to go in there.


----------



## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

Yvonne's hubby said:


> When the vast majority of your customer base make their livings growing tobacco and use tobacco? Try again.


So. The only thing they couldn't do is smoke . I bet they still go out and eat and drink. The business was not savy enough to keep their business or find new customers. Change happens, snooze you lose.


----------



## Evons hubby (Oct 3, 2005)

painterswife said:


> So. The only thing they couldn't do is smoke . I bet they still go out and eat and drink. The business was not savy enough to keep their business or find new customers. Change happens, *snooze you lose*.


How very tolerant of you. I can't speak for everyone but I know for a fact that many of us don't go out to eat and drink nearly as much since the no smoking ban went into effect. These days we either stay home, grab something and take it home or catch up with freinds in our own homes. Gone are the days of relaxing in the local diner enjoying life as we see fit.


----------



## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

Yvonne's hubby said:


> How very tolerant of you. I can't speak for everyone but I know for a fact that many of us don't go out to eat and drink nearly as much since the no smoking ban went into effect. These days we either stay home, grab something and take it home or catch up with freinds in our own homes. Gone are the days of relaxing in the local diner enjoying life as we see fit.


You keep using the word tolerant. Where did I ever say I was tolerant of others being allowed to put poisonous noxious cancer causing substances in my air? You can enjoy your life as you see fit. You just can't do it where it hurts only your family and any friends that also want to breath cancer causing substances.


----------



## coolrunnin (Aug 28, 2010)

Yvonne's hubby said:


> How very tolerant of you. I can't speak for everyone but I know for a fact that many of us don't go out to eat and drink nearly as much since the no smoking ban went into effect. These days we either stay home, grab something and take it home or catch up with freinds in our own homes. Gone are the days of relaxing in the local diner enjoying life as we see fit.


Enjoying life as you see fit, rarely makes the proprietor any money turning tables works way better


----------



## Evons hubby (Oct 3, 2005)

painterswife said:


> You keep using the word tolerant. *Where did I ever say I was tolerant* of others being allowed to put poisonous noxious cancer causing substances in my air? You can enjoy your life as you see fit. You just can't do it where it hurts only your family and any friends that also want to breath cancer causing substances.


point taken, ok so your not tolerant. At least not of people who aren't in your own frame of thinking. Don't like having noxious poisons cancer causing substances in your air? I've no problem with that. Stay outside where there is nice clean fresh air, or find establishments that provide such places. No need to outlaw every estashment from having smoking sections available for their customers the don't mind the stench.


----------



## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

Yvonne's hubby said:


> point taken, ok so your not tolerant. At least not of people who aren't in your own frame of thinking. Don't like having noxious poisons cancer causing substances in your air? I've no problem with that. Stay outside where there is nice clean fresh air, or find establishments that provide such places. No need to outlaw every estashment from having smoking sections available for their customers the don't mind the stench.


Don't twist my words for your own political statement. I am not tolerant of people that think it is okay for their bad judgement in partaking cancerous substances should be done in public where it can hurt others. Do it in your own home not in public places where it can hurt others.


----------



## mreynolds (Jan 1, 2015)

I always try to figure out important life changing stuff too.

Like why do they say Cool Beans when there is *nothing* cool about eating cold beans?


----------



## JeepHammer (May 12, 2015)

Yvonne's hubby said:


> That business was quite prosperous for over fifty years prior to that regulation! There were no employees being forced to endure anyone's second hand smoke. (Slavery was outlawed here same as everywhere else over 150 years ago.) nobody else was forced to be there either. Just a nice community gathering spot for free people to grab lunch, shoot a bit of pool, play some cards and enjoy themselves... "pursuit of happiness"


Nope!
I've known WAY too many wait staff, exempt from minimum wage, getting a dollar an hour and just HOPING for tips...
Some guy loafing for hours and puffing on a 50¢ cigar that burning chicken manure would smell better.

Someone that works for a dollar an hour and prays for tips to stay off welfare can't be particular about jobs, and having to suffer through a room you can't see through is most certainly NOT what they thought of when taking a wait staff job...

While regular cigarette smoke never particularly bothered me in normal circumstances,
Smoke around me while I'm eating and we WILL have words at the very least.
Leave a brining cigarette with that wet side they get smolder in an ashtray, light a cigar, joint or those awful clove cigarettes while I'm trying to eat, and one of us is leaving...

The waste product from my eating is defecation,
Unless you want to trade your second hand waste product for mine, don't smoke while I'm eating and neither one of us has an issue.
In other words, Don't start no (defecation) and there won't be no (defecation).


----------



## geo in mi (Nov 14, 2008)

Yvonne's hubby said:


> And in your mind this is a good thing? Now where can grumpy, cigarette smoking, fried green pepper loving, or combinations of the above, people go to enjoy themselves? Is not America large enough to accommodate everyone? I find it sad that large groups of our citizens have been pushed out of everywhere because of their political stance, style of dress or choice of lifestyle.


I'm not so sure it was the ban on smoking, but John, who was the head grouch that made everybody else sour. Life's too short to stay around grouchy, feisty, people for very long--so most folks just found friendlier places, and his business dwindled down to one table of old grouches that most people didn't want to be around. And a lot of people, me included, like it better now that you can smell the hickory in the bacon rather than tobacco smoke. Besides, you have to realize that here, we grow fruit-lots of fruit. That means insects and fungi--so we spray. My neighbor is one who sprayed for forty years, in an open station tractor, with no respirator. He no longer eats breakfast at the Teapot, but if he was still here on this earth, I'm sure he would--he died with lung disease....... A lot of the guys sitting around the table have COPD from all the spraying and at least they seem better off from the ban on smoking. .And April did one thing, which a lot of restaurants and lodges and American Legion halls have done. She built an enclosed, shaded outdoor area so folks could smoke---yeah, it's outside, but at least she tried.

I smoked for the better part of forty years and I'm so thankful I was able to quit. I'm so glad I don't do that any more. But I'd rather not be around it. A friend of mine had a little sign hanging in her kitchen. "Ours is a family of firefighters. If we see you smoking here, we will assume you are burning and we will put you out."

geo


----------



## alleyyooper (Apr 22, 2005)

We had a resturand that we held our bi weekly meetings in that was pretty much central to all of us. a sort of a around the corner area we used. We don't smoke none of us do we hunt coyotes and other critters, that smell gets in your hair ya know. the owner had non smoking policy also way before the ban on Smoking in Michigan resturants.

so how word got ou there there was no smokeing there the food was great and prices were good. Wasn't long and the little out of the way area we used was being over run with city type folks who had moved to the country.
they started complaining to the owner about the 20 people every other Sundy in this little area talking about shooting Coyotes and some of the antics the coyotes did. so the owner said we couldn't be talking about hunting and that sort of stuff.

So we moved to a different resturand and have a room all to our selves for the most part.
the old place lost all the old farm people that had been going there for years because the yuppies who final ran us off started in on the stinky fearm trucks in the same parking lot as their BMW's and drip sheep crap they walked in.

A year after we left we drove by on our way to a coyote hunt and the place was boarded up and today 5 years later it remains boarded up.
Seems the yuppies discovered another great place to go to and the old resturant couldn't make a go of it with the occinal traveler that was stopping in.

A lot of the wait staff now works at our new place or the truck stop where we go to a lot before, during and after a hunt.

I have personally heard the owner of the new place tell people waiting for a table the extra tables in the room we are in are for a private party this Sunday.

 Al


----------



## Evons hubby (Oct 3, 2005)

JeepHammer said:


> Nope!
> I've known WAY too many wait staff, exempt from minimum wage, getting a dollar an hour and just HOPING for tips...
> Some guy loafing for hours and puffing on a 50¢ cigar that burning chicken manure would smell better.
> 
> ...


Like I said jeep, none of the wait staff were forced to be there. Slavery has been forbidden in my state for quite a few generations. We've kinda gotten used to freedom, I for one don't aim to give it up without resistance. If my cigarette smoke irritates you.... By all means excericize your freedom.... The same door you came in will let you out. My point is there is no need to ban smoking in all diners, pubs, and other places when simple ventilation works. Or how about this, a sign at the entrance.... "The state of confusion has determined some elements in this environment causes insanity, normal adults have been known to become crybabies, enter at your own peril".


----------



## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

Irish Pixie said:


> Yes, it can. But rights are funny things, yours end when mine begin. A "red flag" person who escalates to "becoming a danger to themselves or others", can be evaluated for psychiatric problems in what is commonly called a 72 hour hold. It's a protection for the individual and the community.


That has nothing to do with "red flag" gun laws.


----------



## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

painterswife said:


> No reason that workers should *have to* work in a place where other people are smoking.


No one was forced to work there.


----------



## wr (Aug 10, 2003)

painterswife said:


> So. The only thing they couldn't do is smoke . I bet they still go out and eat and drink. The business was not savy enough to keep their business or find new customers. Change happens, snooze you lose.


After smoking laws came into effect in Canada, a lot of businesses saw a sharp decline. Several went under and I don't believe it was because their owners weren't savvy enough to keep their business but it does take time to find new customers. 

The businesses I saw get caught in the bylaw changes were shisha establishments. It's a cultural experience and many just couldn't hang on until the government came up with exemptions for them.


----------



## mreynolds (Jan 1, 2015)

wr said:


> After smoking laws came into effect in Canada, a lot of businesses saw a sharp decline. Several went under and I don't believe it was because their owners weren't savvy enough to keep their business but it does take time to find new customers.
> 
> The businesses I saw get caught in the bylaw changes were shisha establishments. It's a cultural experience and many just couldn't hang on until the government came up with exemptions for them.


OK, I had to look shisha up as I had never heard of that before. 

I guess you's guys up north cant say hookah because it sounds illegal and all that.


----------



## Evons hubby (Oct 3, 2005)

geo in mi said:


> I'm not so sure it was the ban on smoking, but John, who was the head grouch that made everybody else sour. Life's too short to stay around grouchy, feisty, people for very long--so most folks just found friendlier places, and his business dwindled down to one table of old grouches that most people didn't want to be around. And a lot of people, me included, like it better now that you can smell the hickory in the bacon rather than tobacco smoke. Besides, you have to realize that here, we grow fruit-lots of fruit. That means insects and fungi--so we spray. My neighbor is one who sprayed for forty years, in an open station tractor, with no respirator. He no longer eats breakfast at the Teapot, but if he was still here on this earth, I'm sure he would--he died with lung disease....... A lot of the guys sitting around the table have COPD from all the spraying and at least they seem better off from the ban on smoking. .And April did one thing, which a lot of restaurants and lodges and American Legion halls have done. *She built an enclosed, shaded outdoor area so folks could smoke---yeah, it's outside, but at least she tried.*
> 
> I smoked for the better part of forty years and I'm so thankful I was able to quit. I'm so glad I don't do that any more. But I'd rather not be around it. A friend of mine had a little sign hanging in her kitchen. "Ours is a family of firefighters. If we see you smoking here, we will assume you are burning and we will put you out."
> 
> geo


sounds like she was on track but why not go the other way? Put the non smokers outside in all that clean fresh air?


----------



## Evons hubby (Oct 3, 2005)

wr said:


> After smoking laws came into effect in Canada, a lot of businesses saw a sharp decline. Several went under and I don't believe it was because their owners weren't savvy enough to keep their business but it does take time to find new customers.
> 
> The businesses I saw get caught in the bylaw changes were shisha establishments. It's a cultural experience and many just couldn't hang on until the government came up with exemptions for them.


To me it's not a matter of savvy or putting the owners out of business as much as it is denying the smoking customers anyplace to enjoy their lives. I've heard it said that "your rights end where mine begin". But where do yours begin? Why don't I get to have a say? Your rights are somehow superior to mine? Seems to me a coffee shop or pub owner should have some rights too. He should have the right to allow smoking in his place of business if he wants to.... You still have the right to do business with them... Or not... Your choice. Everyone gets to maintain their rights that way.


----------



## geo in mi (Nov 14, 2008)

Yvonne's hubby said:


> sounds like she was on track but why not go the other way? Put the non smokers outside in all that clean fresh air?


Because April is the new owner, she has the law behind her, and she knows that her food and hospitality will generate far more business for her with the overwhelming majority of non-smokers now coming in to EAT. Must have been a business calculation.

But, smokers take heart. Once in awhile one of the girls burns the toast...….
(Hey, YH, it's a joke, just a joke...  

geo


----------



## gilberte (Sep 25, 2004)

I don't understand why somebody doesn't come up with a "helmet" of some sort that would allow the smoker to puff away to their hearts content while not affecting anyone else. Seems to me the smoker could benefit by getting the maximum result of their cigarettes


----------



## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

There are posters that use the "if you don't like it move" rationale on everything else... If you don't like the smoking laws in your city or state, just move. Easy peasy lemon squeezy. 

Here's a list: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_smoking_bans_in_the_United_States


----------



## geo in mi (Nov 14, 2008)

gilberte said:


> I don't understand why somebody doesn't come up with a "helmet" of some sort that would allow the smoker to puff away to their hearts content while not affecting anyone else. Seems to me the smoker could benefit by getting the maximum result of their cigarettes


Rumor has it that April has been looking at three pot coffee stations, instead of two. Now the girls can ask: "Regular, Decaf, or Nicotine?" Might work…..



geo


----------



## geo in mi (Nov 14, 2008)

Santa doesn't smoke a pipe anymore. What's your excuse?

Okay, enough, already,



geo


----------



## alleyyooper (Apr 22, 2005)

Now I wonder why I have not seen smoke shops open up herew in Michigan any where?
If smokeing at places where you can drink adult breverages and eat food from burgers to steak, from shrimp to sardines were open there should be lines out the door. But there are none, not a one from Flint to Port Huron From Pontiac to Bay City.

Even used cars/trucks are bought and sold as non smoker cars/trucks in this area. I don't want to buy one that stinks to high heaven with a film on the inside of the windsheild it takes a bucket of glass cleaner to remove.

 Al


----------



## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

I see lots of stuff for sale, sold as from a non smoking home as well.


----------



## doozie (May 21, 2005)

Think of all the places you used to be able to smoke...work, grocery stores, hair salon, as a patient in the hospital even, just about everywhere if I remember correctly. Amazing they didn't all go out of business.....


----------



## JeepHammer (May 12, 2015)

Yvonne's hubby said:


> To me it's not a matter of savvy or putting the owners out of business as much as it is denying the smoking customers anyplace to enjoy their lives. I've heard it said that "your rights end where mine begin". But where do yours begin? Why don't I get to have a say? Your rights are somehow superior to mine? Seems to me a coffee shop or pub owner should have some rights too. He should have the right to allow smoking in his place of business if he wants to.... You still have the right to do business with them... Or not... Your choice. Everyone gets to maintain their rights that way.


That's exactly the 'Elitist' entitlement attitude that's the issue.

*YOU* never had the 'Right' to infringe anyone else's actual Rights.

You don't have the right to blow smoke in my face while I'm trying to eat.
You don't have the right to handle the female wait staff or any other random woman.
You don't have the right to pump sewage onto my property or into public land.
You don't have the right to spray toxins on my land.
Etc, etc, etc...

You NEVER had those rights even though many got away with it... For centuries.
*YOU* can't lose 'Rights' you never had in the first place, even if you (collectively) got away with it...

I had a job as assistant manager and security in a restaurant/bar for a while and I told the wait staff/bar maids to pour drinks/food plates, what ever brought them into contact with the masher, and dump whatever they were handling right on anyone man-handing them.
Make a (free to the server) apology and I'd offer to pay for cleaning of their cloths.

Since they have an absloute sense of entitlement they often got into screaming/threatening matches (psychology), which gave me/bouncers reason to throw them out on their butts.
Since in this state, a breath test isn't required in this state for a hold on public intoxication charge, if the person continued to cause trouble we simply called police and it was a free trip to the drunk tank for the trouble maker.

Fire up a smoke in the dining/no smoking section the wait staff would come in and box up your food, present you with the check, and I'd ask you to pay your check & leave.
If you didn't the bouncers would help you to the pay station.
Still refuse to pay or leave and police would help you with your bad decisions, poor judgement and lack of manners/common sense.

It was quite popular with the female wait staff...
Simple really, they didn't have to take it anymore, give the masher a plate full of food scraps or a pitcher of beer in the lap and they are leaving one way or the other,
To change clothes, or get thrown out when arguing/puffing up/cussing.

We got a much more polite customer type, and traffic in the place increased.
Turns out the blind drunks and nurse a beer for hours while puffing cigarettes and man handling the bar maid types didn't want to hang around there,
And we got a lot more couples/women that came to have dinner, migrate to the bar/dance floor and stay longer spending money all evening...
The bar/dance floor tables made the most money, the restaurant made the second most, the back pool room area was the most trouble and the lowest profit area of the building.


----------



## wr (Aug 10, 2003)

mreynolds said:


> OK, I had to look shisha up as I had never heard of that before.
> 
> I guess you's guys up north cant say hookah because it sounds illegal and all that.


My non smoking niece who enjoys her odd trip to shisha bars, gave me an education on this and according to her both mean the same but shisha bars establishments are a lot more upscale than the hooka bars. 

Cannibus is legal in Canada so just about every smoke shop has a healthy display of hookas for sale.


----------



## wr (Aug 10, 2003)

gilberte said:


> I don't understand why somebody doesn't come up with a "helmet" of some sort that would allow the smoker to puff away to their hearts content while not affecting anyone else. Seems to me the smoker could benefit by getting the maximum result of their cigarettes


I guess there are enough inconsiderate smokers that give the rest a bad reputation. I didn't need a law to tell me that I shouldn't smoke in the house, in a vehicle with my kids or share my smoke with who was eating dinner. 

Even when there were no laws requiring me to step outside to smoke, I always did and it never bothered me. Our bylaws have changed a bit and they are more restrictive, which still doesn't upset me in any way, except when I go visit my father at the old people warehouse. 

In order for them to comply with smoking bylaws, seniors are now left to find their way to the end of the parking lot, which is dangerous on it's own but watching frail seniors work their way across ice to stand in a busy parking lot seems fairly dangerous and seeing staff forget seniors they've helped out of the building in extremely cold weather seems to take the idea that smoking can kill to a whole new level.


----------



## wr (Aug 10, 2003)

Continuing a debate after it's been deleted will get the thread closed.


----------

