# Major emergency- Western NY



## SJSFarm (Jun 13, 2012)

I just picked up an intact akbash male. He is 3 

He was great with the chickens and the goats- except for licking their butts; they are in heat. 

He barked and growled at both my little girls. 

I need to rehome him immediately. 

He has been guarding sheep and has worked as little as 5 acres 


Sorry if I sound cold, but he's simply too large to risk it and they are afraid of him which makes it worse. 

Please I want him to go to a working farm.


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## Hapua1975 (Aug 29, 2013)

How long have you had him for and how old are your children? He may just need time to get used to the family, but then again at 3 years of age he may never accept any of you as family. I have never owned a lgd, but I have had and continue to have Neapolitan mastiffs. Once they have bonded with their "family", it is difficult to move them to another family. I have never had any issues with any of the dogs that I have raised from pups, but I have had a couple of adults that I have taken in that just refused to accept the family. Needless to say, they didn't stay long. Where in wny are you located? I am from the Olean area.


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## SJSFarm (Jun 13, 2012)

I got him on Saturday. My kids were with their dad then and came back today. My youngest is 8. 

My kids like to go into the pasture with the goats frequently and the two girls were trying to help me get the young ones back into the stall. The dog apparently took them as a threat. 

I went out just a little bit ago and he was growling and barking a little at me, his tail was still wagging but still. 

I have experience with adult dogs, in fact I think the youngest dog I've ever had was 5-6 months old.

I guess I jumped in too soon. Perhaps I should get a pup if I get another LGD. 


I'm positive he will work for anyone who has experience with the LGD and their particular training needs. But I just can't risk my kids. I don't have the proper experience.


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## CAjerseychick (Aug 11, 2013)

I would give him more time, maybe have girls be near you while you pour feed(treats) for the goats, get a routine going so Dog understands the girls are part of his landscape too (he may have never seen kids before and does not know what they are) and that you and the girls bring treats....Have him get used to a daily routine which includes the girls so he can get used to them...
It is unfortuante that his first contact with the girls was them "herding" His animals, he needed a proper introduction. He was just doing his job.
If you dont want to risk it I can certainly understand.
Its just that - kids and dogs -- any dogs, need proper introduction. He does not know he is not to defend his animals from them....


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## Grumpy old man (Aug 6, 2013)

get rid of him fast before any threat comes towards your kids , I understand the "love " some have for animals but NOTHING is more important than your kids and if he had barked and growled at mine I would have already solved the problem !


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## Bret4207 (May 31, 2008)

I carry the scars from a PO'd LGD. I would not risk my kids. Sad, but it's just a dog.


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## wendle (Feb 22, 2006)

Since you just got him maybe you can take him back to the person you got him from? I would get rid of him asap, and let any prospective homes know about his issues. Most farmers I know do not want a people aggressive lgd.


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## Rock (Jan 5, 2009)

From what I have read this is 100% your fault and the dog was doing his job! Dog has not had time to establish pack structure, you dump these new threats to his charge unannounced into the mix? What is he--- Guardian it's right there in the name!
If your youngest is 8, they are old enough to understand instruction and do their part, should you give the dog a chance.
You have to build pack structure with any dog _(you have done it with every dog you ever owned, whether you knew it or not) _do that and you will be fine.


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## HayBabies (Feb 27, 2013)

I have to say the kids come first. Even if they have supervised visits with the dog. Kids will be kids and sneak out and do their own thing. It only takes once to seriously hurt or worse a fatality. Not worth it to me. How many of you remember going out and sneaking around a bull or a ram sheep in the field when you knew you weren't supposed to?


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## SJSFarm (Jun 13, 2012)

I know he felt he was doing his job. Yes, I'm the adult, and its 100% my fault. 

I, myself, will need more training with LGD SHOULD I EVER get another one. 

This guy is good, he needs a chance; not with me. And my kids have taken off into the pasture by themselves. I can not and will not risk it. 

I was hoping here someone with experience was close enough to take him. 

Thank you all. I will have to accept any losses to my birds and simply do my best to protect them. 

Again, thank you all! 

God bless


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## Batt (Sep 8, 2006)

whatever happens, don't take it out on the dog. He was just doing his job as he understood it. Wish I didn't live so far away.


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## CAjerseychick (Aug 11, 2013)

Of course the kids come first.
Any dog in the future needs to have an introduction to your children though- not a great idea to get a guard dog with the kids away, have him settle into a certain routine, then have little strangers arrive and start messing with his goats.
You could get a dog that would accept that. But it would not be a guard dog.
Maybe contact Rescue, there is Anatolian shepherd dog (Akbash are a subset of the Anatolian) rescue and they try to place him....


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## SJSFarm (Jun 13, 2012)

I've contacted two rescue organizations and three breeders of the akbash (in CA, OH, and I don't recall the other state). 
The consensus is I should castrate him and that will reduce his aggression. 

In the mean time I need to work with him alone, on basic commands. Initially outside the goat pen then with the goats. And eventually when he is better with commands, the kids need to get involved. They said I need to make sure he accepts them as his pack and respects them as leaders not charges to be disciplined when they get 'out of line'. 

One recommended a specific book to read.

I will still be looking for another place for him, but until then, the kids will stay out of the barn area - its a simple and easy set up and he has no way of getting out unless the kids go into the barn or open the gate.


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## CAjerseychick (Aug 11, 2013)

I am so sorry-- I was so excited for you when you found him. It completely passed my mind to ask if you had kids or not...
That is part of any equation involving changes to your household....
Good luck working with him. 
Hoping it was his initial reaction to not knowing strangers (your kids) and not true people aggression... Just be careful. I would put a chain/lock on your gate/barn door to make sure the kids dont open it up ....
(when we lived in SF a ladys developmentally delayed 14 yearold was mauled to death by the family dogs-- she stepped out to do an errand and left him in the family room/basement playing video games and told him not to open the door..... He opened the door (it was the father's dogs and the ***** was in heat)....


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## Stonybrook (Sep 22, 2007)

I would be looking to rehome him ASAP (to a decent home, of course, because he was doing his job). However, I would also be disturbed by the fact that he also growled at you. If he has a dominant streak, becoming the pack leader may not be so easy, and transfering that leader status to your kids may also be quite difficult. Good luck finding a home.


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## Bret4207 (May 31, 2008)

Rock said:


> From what I have read this is 100% your fault and the dog was doing his job! Dog has not had time to establish pack structure, you dump these new threats to his charge unannounced into the mix? What is he--- Guardian it's right there in the name!
> If your youngest is 8, they are old enough to understand instruction and do their part, should you give the dog a chance.
> You have to build pack structure with any dog _(you have done it with every dog you ever owned, whether you knew it or not) _do that and you will be fine.


I think that's an extremely harsh way to put it.


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## Grumpy old man (Aug 6, 2013)

Don't let the LGD zealots get to you your children are more important than any dog and 1 incident will be 1 too many In my opinion large dogs like him are better brought home as puppies and raised to guard your entire family from day 1 ,bringing a 3 year old dog home is better left to those with experience and the understanding and ( no small kids ) of how they need to be introduced to a new home .


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## SJSFarm (Jun 13, 2012)

I've been in contact with two rescue organizations to find him a proper home. Apparently there is a lady in Ohio who has had akbash and wants another. 

She is very experience with them. 

I'm keeping my fingers crossed. 

I'm just so sorry its not working out for me. All I read about them was good. The anatolian was my second choice but reading about their aggression turned me off on them. 

I guess in the future I'll be looking at a GP.


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## Maura (Jun 6, 2004)

If you feel that you need to rehome him, that is your decision. I the meantime, have the children feed him. I'm assuming you are feeding him a high quality kibble twice a day. At the morning meal, have one girl feed him his kibble from her hand. If this is too scary, then she can drop the kibble on the ground or into his dish. He needs to sit for her first and wait for her to drop the kibble. When he's finished, he has to sit again and wait for her to feed him. With small hands, I'm sure she can get at least three sits from him. In the evening, the other girl does the routine. This will go far in establishing that the girls outrank them and that they are not threats.


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## JasoninMN (Feb 24, 2006)

Breed isn't a factor here, its the dogs upbringing. The dog obviously is not used to children and is a WORKING dog not a pet. Akbash, Anatolian, Great Pyrenees, they can all act the same way if they are working dogs are never been exposed to kids. I don't blame you for getting rid of the dog because of the kids but you can't make a judgement on the whole breed because of ONE dog.


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## Grumpy old man (Aug 6, 2013)

Maura said:


> If you feel that you need to rehome him, that is your decision. I the meantime, have the children feed him. I'm assuming you are feeding him a high quality kibble twice a day. At the morning meal, have one girl feed him his kibble from her hand. If this is too scary, then she can drop the kibble on the ground or into his dish. He needs to sit for her first and wait for her to drop the kibble. When he's finished, he has to sit again and wait for her to feed him. With small hands, I'm sure she can get at least three sits from him. In the evening, the other girl does the routine. This will go far in establishing that the girls outrank them and that they are not threats.


I'm pretty sure this is a bad idea .let's have the 8 year old hand feed a lgd that's already shown aggression towards her ! none of us have even seen a picture of the dog ,the kids,or have any idea how aggresive he really is .There was a reason the previous owner let him go . This family just might not be ready for this type of dog . And to constantly advise them to involve their kids to retrain him without knowing anything about him is just wrong ! Find him a new home and try again ! :bdh:


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## CAjerseychick (Aug 11, 2013)

Whatever the Breed. Go with a Pup next time around- and have kids be around it (do not allow them to abuse or mishandle puppy or this will backfire)....


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## SJSFarm (Jun 13, 2012)

No kidding about the pup! 

Yea I spoke with so many people over the last two days. People in TX, KS, CA and all over ny! 
The rescue organization in CA has set me up with a woman in Ohio who has worked with akbash and knows them well. She has a lot of land and she's going to take him. I will be driving him out there soon! 

Thanks all!


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## Rock (Jan 5, 2009)

Bret4207 said:


> I think that's an extremely harsh way to put it.


 Why would I want to sugar coat it, so there can be another encounter where inadvertently her kids are put in danger. You can think as you like, does not change the facts. Kids could have gotten torn up bad and the dog would still just have been doing his job!



Maura said:


> I the meantime, have the children feed him. I'm assuming you are feeding him a high quality kibble twice a day. At the morning meal, have one girl feed him his kibble from her hand. If this is too scary, then she can drop the kibble on the ground or into his dish. He needs to sit for her first and wait for her to drop the kibble. When he's finished, he has to sit again and wait for her to feed him. With small hands, I'm sure she can get at least three sits from him. In the evening, the other girl does the routine. This will go far in establishing that the girls outrank them and that they are not threats.


 No I think that is not a good idea



Grumpy old man said:


> I'm pretty sure this is a bad idea .let's have the 8 year old hand feed a lgd that's already shown aggression towards her ! none of us have even seen a picture of the dog ,the kids,or have any idea how aggresive he really is .There was a reason the previous owner let him go . This family just might not be ready for this type of dog . And to constantly advise them to involve their kids to retrain him without knowing anything about him is just wrong ! Find him a new home and try again ! :bdh:


 I agree, hand feeding is a bad idea at this time. since the dog has shown defensive posture & your not keeping the dog why take the risk?


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## hercsmama (Jan 15, 2004)

SJSFarm said:


> No kidding about the pup!
> 
> Yea I spoke with so many people over the last two days. People in TX, KS, CA and all over ny!
> The rescue organization in CA has set me up with a woman in Ohio who has worked with akbash and knows them well. She has a lot of land and she's going to take him. I will be driving him out there soon!
> ...


:clap:
So glad it is all worked out. For sure start with a puppy next time...


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## wendle (Feb 22, 2006)

Great news that you found a home! Don't be discouraged. You were smart to do some research and ask questions. They aren't all aggressive, in fact most lgds I've seen have very good temperaments. I have two Anatolian/Pyrs and they are both very good with children. I do quite a lot of handling and socializing though. I prefer to get a pup too as I can train the dog how I want.


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## BackfourtyMI. (Sep 3, 2007)

So glad this story sounds like it's going to have a Happy ending. We just got our first LGD's this past April, both Karakachan puppies. They are both doing Great & I highly reccomend them for LGD's, their temperment so far is great even with the neices & nephews that came for vacation this summer (we don't have children) although I DO NOT let strangers in my pastures with my goats. My dogs are to protect my goats from anything or anybody that tries to harm them. If I take you in the pasture then that's OK though.
This is all new to us too & we are learning along the way. I am thankful for the help I have gotten from 1 of the breeders, she's always willing to help me still & answer any questions I have even though she's 100's of miles away.

Check out the Karakachan, Great LGD's & so many great qualities. Can't say enough about this breed.


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## SJSFarm (Jun 13, 2012)

Thanks again everyone. He is now in Ohio. The woman I placed him with has been looking for a male after the loss if her last at 13-14 yrs old. He will be fixed. Thank you Janet at the Akbash rescue Oakland, CA ! And Ann in Ohio! 

Just before I took him back, he bit my herd queen. He pinned her against the fence and bit the top of her neck. She's ok, but obviously shaken up. 

The woman in Ohio know EVERYTHING. I kept nothing from her. 

Rock, I don't take offense. I, personally, am not the type that takes offense easily (under most circumstances). It was blunt, but this is a serious matter. 

The opportunity was there and I jumped in much too quick. 

A pup is the ONLY way for me to go should I do it again. Before I get serious, I will read more on the training and avoid looking until I'm truly ready next time!


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## motdaugrnds (Jul 3, 2002)

OMG Bret & Rock are at it again! (Suggest you two look in the mirror! Both of you are outspoken and there is absolutely nothing wrong with that! Even the OP appreciated the blunt comments!)

Really glad this worked out well for that LGD! And I, too, would encourage you to look into the Karakachans.  Oh yes, I'm indeed biased! Couldn't ask for a better LGD for our goats/fowl. And you're wise in thinking of a pup instead of a grown dog.


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## Bret4207 (May 31, 2008)

Again? I don't believe we've ever "been at it" ever before. But I see no reason for adding insult to injury. That's all I was saying. End of story.


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## anita_fc (May 24, 2008)

SJSFarm... smart lady!

Anita Crafton
Dan-Ani Pygmy Goats
Hansen, Idaho


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## redgate (Sep 18, 2008)

I want to second the idea of a pup. We have 5 young children. Our first LGD was a 10-week old pup, and immediately accepted the kiddos as part of the alpha "humans." She is now my more aggressive female, but has never, EVER threatened a child--mine or strange ones. Strange adults, however, must get her permission before entering the pen. Our second LGD was picked up from a goat farm that no longer wanted her. She was already 12-months old, so I took my children with me to "interview" her in her original herd. She was immediately friendly, but respectful of them, submissive as I would expect and generally wanted to be their friend. Within a week, my 2 year old couldn't go anywhere in the pasture without the new LGD standing guard right beside her, as if it were her own pup. These two dogs have been an great experience, and I would recommend a good LGD to anyone! It takes a little work at first if you want a family-safe dog, but it is soooo worth it long term! We haven't lost a single critter to a predator since (except a couple stupid chickens who refused to stay INSIDE the fence where the dogs could protect them).


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## therunbunch (Oct 5, 2009)

Go with a Pup! I went through something similar a couple of years back with a large dog. She was fine with me but even after working with behavioralist and trainer, she ended up biting one of our contractors. I could never trust her with our kids (good advice for any large dog) and after she fear-bit, the behavioralist, breeder, vet, trainer, and even the mastiff association said to put her down-which we did. Kids come first in a situation where a dog is acting overly aggressive and has been properly socialized to the family. I'll never bring another adult LGD into our family. (The original dog had been abused and had issues we weren't made aware of when we adopted her.) We worked hand in hand with the Bullmastiff rescue association and the founder placed us with a pup that has been the most amazing large dog we've ever owned. She LOVES chicken and other animals. She's great with our kids and even cats! She bounces around trying to make the donkeys play with her, and she is spot-on when it comes to protecting the family from strangers and strange animals that wander into the yard from time to time. 

It's easy to end up in this situation so just take everyone's words with a grain of salt. We don't have forevision, even if we have common sense. Work with some folks who really know the breed your interested in and let them help pair you with the right dog. That's what I've learned from my own experience. Good luck!


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## Stonybrook (Sep 22, 2007)

If you get another LGD, I would encourage to to take it to puppy classes as early as you safely can. While you want an LGD to be a good guardian, you also will need to make sure that it is properly socialized. Your kids can also learn how to handle the dog correctly under those circumstances.


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## CAjerseychick (Aug 11, 2013)

Yup we just finished puppy class with "Oscar"- it made a world of difference-- he was pretty shy and he just opened up and learned to play with other puppies his size, got an idea of what obedience was, my daughter had a ball taking him to class (plus there were other kids there too), overall it gave him more confidence. 
(I learned he has plenty of guarding abilities at not even 16 weeks, thats just ingrained, but the confidence I think is important so that he learns to have good Judgement too...)....


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