# "Cut Shells" 12 GA



## unregistered41671 (Dec 29, 2009)

Has anybody ever heard of this. Looks like it would work to me. May be fine in a pinch.

For dialup, it shows cutting a 12 GA #8 birdshot almost in half and it is now a slug. 

[YOUTUBE]k3M46XVfVOU[/YOUTUBE]


----------



## Cornhusker (Mar 20, 2003)

I've seen that before
I guess in a McGyver situation it could be a handy bit of knowledge, but I've found the best practice is to not modify ammo if you don't really have to.


----------



## GREENCOUNTYPETE (Jul 25, 2006)

then i watched this video , this guy cuts 7/8 of the way around the plastic outer shell he tells you it was a trick they did int he 20s and 30s but cutting a 1930 paper shell seems different than the plastic shells they are cutting now , seems like it could increase pressure a bunch pushing all that thru a choke , not something i am likely to try , and it seems like it would be an issue in a pump to put them in the magazine . if it was a last resort maybe but not a better alternative than having the right ammo up front.

a melted wax version i have seen may be a better option, home made breaching rounds , or improvised slugs as they are called 

they apparently do a number on a padlock or door i have seen some videos


look for the videos on the wax rounds , they just cut off the crimp and dump out the shot , then they melt paraffin or crayons and mix the paraffin in the wax then spoon the shot back into the power piston covered in hot wax a little more wax over the top , you reduce the overall weight but bind the shot together , very similar effects. and they feed in a pump or auto


----------



## coolrunnin (Aug 28, 2010)

I was wondering how well they would work in a pump or auto myself. I could see them hanging up a whole lot.

But the damage was impressive.


----------



## Cabin Fever (May 10, 2002)

This was discussed about a year ago and some didn't think it was a very good idea.

http://www.homesteadingtoday.com/sp...edness/400935-got-shotgun-good-info-know.html


----------



## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

It's a* FOOLISH* thing to do.

The bore of the gun is MUCH smaller than the outside of the shell.

If you WANT slugs BUY slugs


----------



## zant (Dec 1, 2005)

Bearfootfarm said:


> It's a* FOOLISH* thing to do.
> 
> The bore of the gun is MUCH smaller than the outside of the shell.
> 
> If you WANT slugs BUY slugs


Exactly...or cast your own slugs,dump out shot,insert slug,reseal..


----------



## unregistered41671 (Dec 29, 2009)

Cabin Fever said:


> This was discussed about a year ago and some didn't think it was a very good idea.
> 
> http://www.homesteadingtoday.com/sp...edness/400935-got-shotgun-good-info-know.html


Thanks
Some of those pics in that thread look mighty scarey.


----------



## fishhead (Jul 19, 2006)

Doesn't seem like an economical way to save $10 by the time you figure in even a few of the things that could happen if it got stuck in your choke.


----------



## frankva (May 21, 2009)

Help me out. What is the intended purpose of cutting the shell? I am missing something.


----------



## tyusclan (Jan 1, 2005)

frankva said:


> Help me out. What is the intended purpose of cutting the shell? I am missing something.


The cut end of the shell flies out the barrel holding the shot in clump to mimic a slug. A lot of people have done it, and it worked with no problem, but a lot of guns have been destroyed and people hurt as well. I don't think it's a good idea.


----------



## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

> Exactly...or cast your own slugs,dump out shot,insert slug,reseal..


If you have the right mold, you could remove the shot and melt IT to make the slug, and you wouldn't be changing the weight of the load at all.

Overall though, it's better to NOT *modify* ammo.

You can easily make slug loads starting with EMPTY hulls, and they will function better


----------



## A.T. Hagan (May 1, 2002)

MOST ESPECIALLY if it is to be used as defensive ammunition it is best to NOT modify it. Even if it was a justifiable shooting and no charges were filed there is always the risks of civil actions where the standards of evidence are not the same as in a criminal case. A good lawyer is going to make your modified ammunition look bad in front of a jury. 

If you want slugs then buy (or cast) slugs.


----------



## unregistered41671 (Dec 29, 2009)

A.T. Hagan said:


> MOST ESPECIALLY if it is to be used as defensive ammunition it is best to NOT modify it. Even if it was a justifiable shooting and no charges were filed there is always the risks of civil actions where the standards of evidence are not the same as in a criminal case. A good lawyer is going to make your modified ammunition look bad in front of a jury.
> 
> If you want slugs then buy (or cast) slugs.


Agreed,if you did modify it you would certainly be making a statement to the judge and jury. From what I have seen on some links posted about this I would not even attempt to even try it. Looks like a good way to loose some limbs, face or more. Not to mention a good shotgun.


----------



## frankva (May 21, 2009)

Thanks. Doesn't make a lot of sense to me. Why is my big question I guess.

The how is interesting too.


----------



## unregistered41671 (Dec 29, 2009)

frankva said:


> Thanks. Doesn't make a lot of sense to me. Why is my big question I guess.
> 
> The how is interesting too.


I guess if you needed a slug and only had or could get birdshot it may work, but may kill you too. From what I have seen, I would not try it.


----------



## frankva (May 21, 2009)

Possum Belly said:


> , but may kill you too.


Don't think I need a slug that bad.

While on the subject of slugs- Anyone got any pointers on shelf life of shotshells and slugs? Plastic. Stored on a shelf in the house, open to the air.


----------



## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

> shelf life of shotshells and slugs? Plastic. Stored on a shelf in the house, open to the air.


As long as they aren't wet, they should last pretty much forever.

I've used primers we found behind some drawers at the gun shop that were over 30 years old, with no misfires


----------



## poorboy (Apr 15, 2006)

I have seen plenty of people that KNEW how to do it, and plenty of people that did it.
I have yet to see an instance of someone blowing up a gun doing it..Just people claiming hearsay of same..


----------



## denaliguide (Aug 30, 2008)

Possum Belly said:


> Has anybody ever heard of this. Looks like it would work to me. May be fine in a pinch.
> 
> For dialup, it shows cutting a 12 GA #8 birdshot almost in half and it is now a slug.
> 
> [YOUTUBE]k3M46XVfVOU[/YOUTUBE]


 This idea has been around since paper shotshells, and basically turns a #7.5 or
#8 birdshot shell into a slug like grenade that does off throwing shot like a round buzzsaw at the targets contact.

In gavest extreme I am sure it will save your butt. No way would I want to be down range of it. Birdshot #8 or 7.5, is widely found, but not so serious shot, or in promo loads. Serious shot I mean 4, 5, 6. It gives you range extension to about that of a promo slug which might be necessary.
I guess it squeezes thru chokes because it is soft plastic, wad and the shot jostle around, rearranging themselves from the squeezing pressure.
Screw up the cutting, and I bet you it causes a problem. My take, for me, would be to experiment with cutting, not shooting, until I was sure I could cut them uniformly, and then test one with a slug gun or one of my 870 20 ga youth guns(Grandad started me on 20's and I been that way ever since).

Given the experiences of others, and hearsay, I'd give it a try just to know if it would work, in a gun with replacable barrels like the 870. My one and only concern would be the nasty plastic residue it could leave stuck tight to the inside of my 20's bore, so if I used it for a defense load, I' be using one of my "well experienced" barrels. If i had a concern about their feeding, I'd slick the shells with non-pentrating lubricant and some graphite.

No one I knew of blew a gun doing this, but I'd be using a replacable barrelled gun like the 870, shooting glasses and gloves, maybe some body armour if you had doubts when you tested it to your satisifaction. I think a right choke and uniform cut on the shells would be the most critical parts of this whole deal

I think the knowledge is an asset to defense work, but only if your comfortable with improvised munitions. A case of promo dove shells might be just set aside for this contingency.


----------



## Jim-mi (May 15, 2002)

My nickle bet would be that back many many a year ago when times were tough and a stash on shotgun ammo was -'maybe'- 20 rounds, grandpa wanted a knock down blow for a deer, and all he had was bird shot, he thunk up the cut idea............

So if you are in the way *outback* with only bird shot and you perceive a bear problem . . . . .Yup get the knife going..................


----------



## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

> So if you are *in the way *outback* with only bird shot* and you perceive a bear problem . . . . .Yup get the knife going..................


If you're in that situation, it was POOR PLANNING


----------



## vicker (Jul 11, 2003)

I've never heard of the partial cutting. We always did a full cut and used it in the gun as a single shot, first loading the shot and backing it wit the charge.
Eta: this was when I was young and stupid, and with regular loads. No way would I try this now, and certainly not with high powered loads.


----------



## Jim-mi (May 15, 2002)

For sure it was poor planning . . . . .. 

But it still happens..............................


----------



## denaliguide (Aug 30, 2008)

Jim-mi said:


> For sure it was poor planning . . . . ..
> 
> But it still happens..............................


but so often its about innovating or thinking your way out of situation, and the more info you have, the better your chances, IMO


----------



## poorboy (Apr 15, 2006)

And anyone even considering it would be well advised to study all the u-tube and written how to's and carefully catalog the information and never use it except in dire extremes..
I've studied it enough to know where and how to cut the shell, BUT I have NO NEED as I have enough slugs set aside...I would not hesitate to do it if needed as I have the info..(I like knowledge)


----------



## pancho (Oct 23, 2006)

When I was young we did that sometimes. We didn't have much money. It was real hard to come up with the money for ammo. This way one type of shot could be used for different purposes.


----------



## poorboy (Apr 15, 2006)

pancho said:


> When I was young we did that sometimes. We didn't have much money. It was real hard to come up with the money for ammo. This way one type of shot could be used for different purposes.


Remember the days when we purchased shotgun shells 3-4 or5 at a time 10cents each at the local general store..


----------



## hayzor (Dec 8, 2003)

Bearfootfarm said:


> It's a* FOOLISH* thing to do.
> 
> The bore of the gun is MUCH smaller than the outside of the shell.
> 
> If you WANT slugs BUY slugs



Disagree!! 

I've tried it several times with no ill effects. Worse thing that can happen is the hull opens, the birdshot exits as usual, and the hull remains in the barrel. 

Its best to do this with a break open type action, so you can look down the barrel after the shot to verify it is clear. Although I have shot many w/ my pump. 

If you WANT slugs BUY slugs - for $1/slug!! These will about 1/4 of that. 

The shotgun is a very versatile firearm - this makes it even more so.


----------



## pancho (Oct 23, 2006)

poorboy said:


> Remember the days when we purchased shotgun shells 3-4 or5 at a time 10cents each at the local general store..


We usually bought 4 at a time.
I didn't know what a box looked like.


----------



## Jim-mi (May 15, 2002)

Yes way to many folks today haven't a clue as to yester-year.....Many many moons ago When I went deer hunting with grandpa in law he carried three ( 3 ) rounds with him.
His attitude was "If I can't hit it with that, then I don't deserve it"
(I got a 6 point that year---one shell)

So is it any wonder that expediency dictated that someone thunk up the cut shell idea when all they had was 3-4 shells in their pocket............and that .50 cent purchase of shells was a BIG deal........

Wonder what grandpa would think/say about those today who would rack off a 50 round magazine in a minute and not blink an eye at the cost..........An grandpa was Not poor.


----------



## vicker (Jul 11, 2003)

When I was a young un , I tried putting two .45 musket balls in with the #8s in a shell, because our bird dogs often pointed bedded down deer. Don't do that. It won't work.  I have a scar on my upper left arm and a sidexside with one breech in the gun cabinet to prove it.


----------



## Chuck R. (Apr 24, 2008)

I really donât go through to many slugs a year, mostly birdshot (hunting and practice) and buck (practice). 

Every once in a while I shoot slugs through my tactical shotgun to practice either slug drills (changing from buck to slug) or to work on accuracy with no-shoots/hostages. Since I keep a shotgun loaded for HD (Benelli M1S90), itâs primarily loaded with #1 buck with OO for back-up/reload. I primarily hunt big game with either rifle or ML, I do keep about 40 slugs on hand for âjust in caseâ.

Iâd view âcut shellsâ as one of those good to know things in case I ever really needed it, but not something Iâd make a habit of. Slugs are readily available, and not cost prohibitive based on how many I go through. A better plan IF you think you might have a need, or plan on a SG being your main defensive weapon might be to stock up now. 

Chuck


----------



## watcher (Sep 4, 2006)

As I said in the first round, its a good thing to know. Think of it like learning how to handle medical emergencies, it'd be better to let the pros handle it but there are times when you have to do what you have to do.


----------



## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

> Think of it like learning how to handle medical emergencies, it'd be better to let the pros handle it but there are times when you have to *do what you have to do*.


What you SHOULD do is *PREPARE* instead of improvise.

When the "old timers" did it, they were using *PAPER shells with cardboard wads* that were more likely to NOT blow up in your face

You have to* plan ahead* to use a cut shell
Why not plan ahead to BUY SLUGS?


----------



## vicker (Jul 11, 2003)

You don't plan ahead. You cut the shell, place the shot in the chamber, followed by the charge, close the breech, aim and pull the trigger.


----------



## pancho (Oct 23, 2006)

Bearfootfarm said:


> What you SHOULD do is *PREPARE* instead of improvise.
> 
> When the "old timers" did it, they were using *PAPER shells with cardboard wads* that were more likely to NOT blow up in your face
> 
> ...


When I did it, it wasn't a problem of not planning ahead. It was a problem getting the money to buy shells in the first place.
Slugs cost more than shot shells. I just didn't have the extra money to buy them. When you only have the money to buy 4 shells at a time and only take one hunting with you, it isn't about planning ahead.


----------



## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

> You don't plan ahead. You cut the shell, place the shot in the chamber, followed by the charge, close the breech, aim and pull the trigger


That's not going to help in any type of *emergency*.
You have to have a knife, and you have to carefully cut it just right for it to work.

And you still end up with something *dangerous*

If you are saying cut it *completely in two* and put TWO seperate pieces in the chamber, you're REALLY asking for trouble


----------



## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

> When you only have the money to buy 4 shells at a time and only take one hunting with you, it isn't about planning ahead.


If you're that poor, you'd be better off *buying* food


----------



## vicker (Jul 11, 2003)

Bearfootfarm said:


> That's not going to help in any type of *emergency*.
> You have to have a knife, and you have to carefully cut it just right for it to work.
> 
> And you still end up with something *dangerous*
> ...


It's not rocket science, and why would I not have a knife? If you don't cut it in two, how would it work as a slug? You can either cut it completely in two, or just cut the casing. Either way, same results.


----------



## pancho (Oct 23, 2006)

Bearfootfarm said:


> If you're that poor, you'd be better off *buying* food


A single deer is a lot of meat. Even a single rabbit is still more than the cost of a single shell.
When I was a kid any meat was appreciated. We had chicken on Sunday. The rest of the week the only meat we had was what I could kill.
4 shells meant meat 4 times during the week.


----------



## Jim-mi (May 15, 2002)

So how many times have folks gone out at this time of the year (late Aug.) with only "bird shot" . . .not expecting any thing large . . .?????

So all of a sudden there is a "large" item close by . .--deer--pig--
You how well that would help feed the crew . . . . . .

Expediently the knife goes into action . . . . . . .now we have a much superior chance of putting food on the table...........

Lots of poor folks out there who who do not have the option of carrying a full bandolier assortment of shells..........


----------



## Pops2 (Jan 27, 2003)

Bearfootfarm said:


> If you're that poor, you'd be better off *buying* food


that is just the snobbery of the current standard of living talking there. frankly i'm surprised, i never expected it from you.


----------



## Pops2 (Jan 27, 2003)

just to add, the PRIMARY reason to not use modified or homemade shells for self defense is that the prosecutor will use it in court to make you look like a whack job chomping at the bit to kill someone.


----------



## LogicAndReason (Jun 10, 2012)

I would not play around with factory loaded shotshells and when I reload I do not alter the components or deviate from the recommended power charges. I prefer to keep my body whole and functional and also keep from damaging a firearm. If I have to scavenge for whatever is available to hunt, I would go with a .22 rifle capable of firing everything from CB caps to hypervelocity long rifle rounds, most bolt actions and some lever actions.

Barrel obstructions are nothing to mess with. At the least they render a barrel unusable until cleared. At the worst they can kill you. If someone is desperate enough to risk killing themselves with an improvised ammunition tactic, they can go ahead. I stick with safer munitions.

As for survival, I can forage more root, berry, leaf, seed, fruit, vegetable and grain food sources as well as fish as needed for back up. I can snare and trap for food as well. Those are more productive means of obtaining food than risking the use of a trick shell tactic.


----------



## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

> that is just the snobbery of the current standard of living talking there.


No, its more just *reality* talking.

You're not likely to kill any deer you just "happen upon" if you expect it to stand around while you fumble with cutting the shell when you consider the EFFECTIVE range is 50 yds (and that's being very GENEROUS).

It would be hard enough just to open the gun and insert a REAL slug in that situation without spooking the animal

It wouldn't be accurate, and it is *DEFINITELY *not safe


----------



## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

*



Teen blows off fingers cutting shotgun shells

Click to expand...

*


> Safford officers were dispatched to 418 W. Fourth St. at about 5:43 p.m. regarding a medical emergency. Upon arrival, officers located Angel Alamanza, 16, sitting in a chair. Alamanza had severe injuries to his left hand with large amounts of tissue loss to his thumb, index and middle fingers, according to a Safford Police report.
> 
> Alamanza and his mother initially said the youth was holding a can of oil when it suddenly exploded. After finding numerous 20-gauge shotgun shells cut open near a shed, Alamanza admitted that he cut open a shell and accidentally sparked the gunpowder


.

Teen blows off fingers cutting shotgun shells - Eastern Arizona Courier: News

Google "Shotgun Explosion Youtube" and you'll see one blow up from using cut shells.
I'm not posting the link now because of what he says when the gun explodes in his face, and because of some of the comments as to his intelligence


----------



## Pops2 (Jan 27, 2003)

Bearfootfarm said:


> .
> 
> Teen blows off fingers cutting shotgun shells - Eastern Arizona Courier: News
> 
> ...


sounds more like playing around w/ the powder than shooting cut shells


----------



## Jim-mi (May 15, 2002)

. ."playing w/ the powder" . . exactly.......
Did the sheriff ever question him as to what he intended to do with the powder . .???

The OP was about partially cutting the shell casing . . NOT completely cutting it......

Sounds more like the kid was / is a candidate for the Darwin ideas..........

To bad that some one on here just will not get the idea that there is / was / are poor folks who have to make do with what they have


----------



## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

Pops2 said:


> sounds more like playing around w/ the powder than shooting cut shells


It blew his fingers off WHILE he was *cutting* it


----------



## vicker (Jul 11, 2003)

Sounds like powder burns to me.


----------



## Pops2 (Jan 27, 2003)

Bearfootfarm said:


> It blew his fingers off WHILE he was *cutting* it


as a kid i cut open many a shell to make big firecrackers for fishing and just playing around. smokeless powder isn't that easy to just casually ignite it takes an actual spark (difficutl to get w/a metal knife cutting through plastic) or a substantial impact (also difficult to get slicing through plastic). for fun we'd pour some powder out & hit it w/ a hammer. we found letting a regular claw hammer just fall didn't hit hard enough to set the powder off. it HAD to be swung. so yeah i stand by my assesment.


----------

