# What should I do with this?



## scrapiron (Jul 23, 2011)

This frame is from todays 2 week inspection of one of the 3 lb. packages I bought this year. Hive is a 10 frame Lang, evenly spaced frames.... Oddly enough, this frame is right beside a full frame of honey I put in. So it is not like they had a bunch of extra room in there!


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## AverageJo (Sep 24, 2010)

I've had them do this when drawing out wax covered plastic foundation. I'm just persistant in pulling it off of there until they do it right. I'm just thankful that only one hive was almost as insistant as I was. LOL.


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## tom j (Apr 3, 2009)

pull it off then scratch your nails on the plastic,,, bet there is little or no wax on the plastic in that area ,,if so ,, in order to get them to draw it on the foundation ,, you will have to paint some wax on it


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## scrapiron (Jul 23, 2011)

It is wax foundation, no plastic.


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## alleyyooper (Apr 22, 2005)

I can see it is wax foundation with vertical support wires.
Just cafefully cut the odd burr comb away as best you can and give it back to them to draw our correctly If they will.

Some times it helps to mist the foundation with syrup. 

 Al


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## tom j (Apr 3, 2009)

Ok your right ,,, wired wax , I missed the wires ,,, but guess thats why I'm still a NEWBEE ,, I will all ways consider myself a newbee ,,, because every time I think I know what the girls are doing ,, they will show me I'm wrong


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## cowkeeper (Feb 17, 2007)

Don't waste all that bee-work! Cut it off and insert it in the middle of an empty frame. Put a bit of foundation at each end.ck


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## AverageJo (Sep 24, 2010)

Great idea cowkeeper, as long as the chunk removed is good to go on both sides when removed. Otherwise, I think it might lead to burr comb on the back side, although the side we're currently seeing looks good. As for this frame, it looks to me like it is being drawn out correctly elsewhere, so popping it off and spritzing with sugar water or whatever might encourage them to do it correctly this next time. Can't wait to hear what was tried and how it worked out.


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## scrapiron (Jul 23, 2011)

Yea, when I saw it, my first instinct was to cut it out. But the more I thought about it, seemed like a big waste. Especially in a new package. Game plan: The brood nest is off to one side of the box. I am going to cut that piece out and rubber band it onto an empty frame. Then stick it in as close to the nest as possible. Al, you said I can "give the comb back to them to draw out correctly" How do you do this?


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## alleyyooper (Apr 22, 2005)

Like others have said tie it into a empty frame. I always mark those frames as not having foundation because they are a bit weaker than wire supported frames. Use rubber bands or carpenters line to tie it in the frame unless you can get an intertube for rubber bands (the best stuff.), use the toughest rubber bands you can find cause they will chew it out in no time at all. Carry extra rubber bands so you can replace the chewed up ones and those already gone till the burr comb is well hooked to The frame by the bees. Place it between frames already drawn out.
The frame you cut the burr comb from just mist it with syrup then put it back in the hive. 

 Al


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## BjornBee (Jan 17, 2011)

Nice comb!  LOL!!!!!!

For other newer beekeepers reading this, some advice.....

See how many holes you can see on the side of the frame? See how bowed the wax foundation is? The foundation should be in line with the holes. This is why they have push pins or some beekeepers actually take the time to cross wire wax foundation. Being lazy and or cheap, thinking you don't need to pay attention to details, comes back in many ways not always being the desired results.

Most double walled comb, like in the picture, can be directly related to also not pushing your frames tight together as the last thing you do before closing up the box. Any extra room between the frames, (or in this case caused by wavy foundation) and you take the risk of having them make double walled or comb off the foundation. It all comes down to bee space. And in this case, there was way to much room offered to the bees.

Looks to me as the bees did what we have always known them to do. They build comb in regards to "bee space". The bees are fine. It is the beekeeper who messed up with this. "Give it back to them and have them draw it correctly" means little to the bees. The bees already did it correctly! So unless there is some perhaps beekeeper insight, repeating the same end result will no doubt happen without some change.


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## scrapiron (Jul 23, 2011)

THANK YOU ScornedBee, for that wonderful insight. I dont know what us lazy,cheap,messy, ignorant Beeks would do without YOU. (I am bowing down to you Mr Almighty) NOW GO BACK TO WHERE YOU CAME FROM.... Oh yea, i forgot, you are BANNED from everywhere else. 

Science lesson: If you take a thin piece of heated wax, and turn it on its side... It bows. If you take that same piece and and stand it up... It straightens. 

If installed properly, wax foundation is fine. It does not bow. 

If you would have READ the OP, this frame was beside a full frame of honey. So there was less room here than all other places in the hive. Please dont respond to my posts. I do not want your help, and it is a matter of time before you are BANNED from here too.


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## scrapiron (Jul 23, 2011)

On a lighter note. I cut the comb out, but it was way too thin to work with. The rubber bands didnt come close to touching it. I just threw it all on top of the inner cover for them to clean up or use. 
While I was getting it done I noticed the girls crashing all over the front of the hive. They were sooo pollen laden, they couldnt fly very well. Nice to have too much pollen! I cant believe how much dry capped honey is in the hive after 2 weeks. Here is a couple pics.


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## scrapiron (Jul 23, 2011)

Here is a pic of the frame after removal. This was nothing but foundation 2 weeks ago, they are filling as fast as they are drawing.


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## BjornBee (Jan 17, 2011)

Don't get upset for my truthful response. Beekeepers are great at cutting corners. My advice for others is solid.

As for being banned, I'm really not sure what you are saying, especially since you have used this ploy in the past while attacking me for doing absolutely nothing. In fact, last time, a couple other members here on this forum called you out for doing it.

It can be found here: http://www.homesteadingtoday.com/livestock-forums/beekeeping/427760-beesource.html

For the record, I'm very active on BeeMaster and Beekeepingforums.com 

Have a good day!


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## scrapiron (Jul 23, 2011)

If you dont know what banned means.... try to go post on Beesource. You will figure it out. Last time 1 (ONE) person said "thats uncalled for". This person does not know you, I do. So lets keep it real and quit lying. I know this is just your tactic for stirring trouble. If you would like, I will post links on this site and expose you.... Didnt think so. Now stay off my threads until you get banned from here and I dont have to worry with you. Beemasters is a great place for you... Thats why I am no longer a member there. It is more for the grumpy OLD men that think there way is better. I am more into serious Beekeeping. Good Day.


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## BjornBee (Jan 17, 2011)

Come on now.

Your own words indicate that I have done nothing wrong on this forum, yet you went on the offensive with name calling, bringing up details of something that happened on another forum 4 years ago, and then proceeded to call for my banning from this forum. 

Your own words on this forum from 5 months ago on another thread:

"BjornBee should be banished from the entire internet in my opinion. His nickname is ScornedBee. I admit he is pretty low key on this forum... but I am sure it is because he is finally realizing the fact... GOD invented the Honey Bee."

I was gracious enough not even reply to your comments. even though I don't think GOD "invented" anything. "Created" may be a better term. 

Who attacked another member of this forum with name calling not once, but twice now? Not Me...YOU!

Who brings up details of what happened on another forum four years ago to denigrate another? Not me....YOU! If it even mattered to me, I would tell you the full truth. But it makes no difference to me, and I am sure they don't want me to drag in details of Beesource. Even though you keep bringing it up. 

Who now claims I should not reply to YOUR posts in some defensive posturing, even though the last time, it was not your post and my comments were not even connected to you? Not me......You! It didn't matter then, and it did not matter now. That is what usually happens when someone has a bone to pick.

Who is making up stuff with wild claims like "You were banned everywhere else", even though clearly not true? Not me....YOU!

Please, can you stop the childish name calling, dragging in details of what happened on another forum to which you have no clue what actually happened, and stop the campaign to have me (or anyone else) banned to which you have a personal grudge of some type?

I have not done anything wrong on this forum. And except for you, who continues to attack me, I find this forum a nice place to visit. Not sure why, but I hope you get any issues behind you. The name calling is getting old.

Have a great day!


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## scrapiron (Jul 23, 2011)

Yawn...


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## AverageJo (Sep 24, 2010)

Down boys!! BjornBee could have been a bit more diplomatic on his post, but if you take the insults out (yes, I was offended a bit, too as it was my quote he used), he actually had some useful information.... especially to new beekeepers, of which I consider myself still....

1) Make sure your foundation isn't warped in the frames. If it seems loose or warping, you can cross-wire it using the holes on the side of the frame. Some beekeepers even use bobby pins, especially in plastic frames.

2) Make sure your frames are pushed close together to make sure the bees have the correct bee space. Too much space and they may opt to build willy nilly. 

I personally use 10 frames in the brood boxes, for bee space issues. However, I've been known to use 9 frames in the honey supers as they seem to draw the honey super frames out further and they're easier to decap for honey extraction. I don't know why they can draw out honey comb correctly yet do double-wall comb in the brood box frames. Can anyone explain this to me? Preferrably without being snippy and insulting.


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## alleyyooper (Apr 22, 2005)

I also use 10 frames in the brood boxes. I have found that most of the time they draw out comb like that in my brood boxes it is on Durigild foundation. Bees do what they want many times despite what we the bee keeper intends for them to do. I have seen them just plain pass up one frame of foundatin and draw out the frames on both sides double thick. I have seen them do as they did in the orignal picture even though the foundation was tight straight and cross wired. I have seen where they chewed holes in the foundation then built perfect comb around the holes. 
I use mostly 8 frames in a 10 frame honey super. They are given a 10 frame super with 9 frames to start out, most times they do it right(what we want.) but some times they make messes. They will most times draw the extra deep cells on drawn foundation many times in a 8 frame honey super. But sometimes they go crazy there as well.
They do what they want despite what we the bee keeper wants.

 Al


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## Elsbet (Apr 2, 2009)

The pics of the girls coming back with pollen were beautiful. We've been seeing a lot of our girls coming home like that, too. It is exciting to know they are doing their jobs! There is an awesome amount of pollen in G'ville and Laurens Co's etc right now. We forgot to get a pollen cake to feed, and have been worried, but they are storing a lot of foraged pollen, and my garden isn't even really in yet- can't wait to see what they do with the squashes and cukes flowers!


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