# PayPal question......



## bluemoonluck (Oct 28, 2008)

I've tried looking online for this info, but apparently my GoogleFu isn't working today 

So for those of you who are really familiar with PayPal..... I know if you purchase something - even NOT on eBay - paying under the "goods and services" tab, and decide you want your money back, you can file with PayPal and will likely get your money refunded to you.

So if someone sends money under a non-purchase category, like the "money to friends/family" category, do the same rules apply (i.e. can they file with PayPal to get their money refunded)? 

I'm trying to figure out if EVERY PayPal transaction is able to be reversed at the money sender's whim, or if only SOME categories allow the sender to do this.


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## sisterpine (May 9, 2004)

I have used paypal both ways and I am gonna say no to your question.


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## sisterpine (May 9, 2004)

And you cannot just get your money back in any case without a valid reason etc.


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## bluemoonluck (Oct 28, 2008)

sisterpine said:


> And you cannot just get your money back in any case without a valid reason etc.


PayPal IME considers the buyer saying "It wasn't as advertized/it arrived broken/it doesn't work/I don't like it/etc" as a valid reason to refund their money :shrug:. I've heard enough stories from sellers over the years to know that PayPal always favors the buyer, even when the transaction isn't done thru eBay.

There was one case where the person bought something that was advertized as "for parts only - does not work" and the buyer got their money back thru PayPal because......... the item didn't work 

I was thinking that if it made a difference, I'd sell something (privately) and have the money sent as "personal" instead of "purchase" so I'd know I wasn't going to get screwed.


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## Belfrybat (Feb 21, 2003)

No. The only way to get money back is under the guaranteed purchase portion. And you can't legally send money as personal if you are buying something since Paypal doesn't charge a fee for personal transactions.


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## simi-steading (Sep 27, 2012)

Well.. I think you can legally send gift money for a purchase, but it is agains PP's terms, which could get you kicked out.. 

I see people constantly gifting people money for purchases on another forum I belong to. They just have no recourse to get their money back if something is wrong with the merchandice.


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## DiggerDirect (Nov 7, 2009)

bluemoonluck said:


> ...
> There was one case where the person bought something that was advertized as "for parts only - does not work" and the buyer got their money back thru PayPal because......... the item didn't work
> 
> I was thinking that if it made a difference, I'd sell something (privately) and have the money sent as "personal" instead of "purchase" so I'd know I wasn't going to get screwed.


PayPal has come along way recently, altho there are still horror stories circulating of similar situations they are rare and almost always have more to the story than whats written.

Better way would be to not accept credit card funded paypal purchases, a credit card company will gladly cancel a card holders transaction before paypal would and with alot longer time frames than paypals 45 day.


Sounds like you know your going to get screwed before you even sell the item to me? My question would be why bother?

If I seen an ad where the seller wanted funds sent 'gifted' for a purchase I'd be hitting the back button so fast it would make heads spin, :runforhills: might as well have them send a moneygram via western union. :yuck:


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## DiggerDirect (Nov 7, 2009)

Main thing is to document your transaction, clear & accurate description and pictures, send insured, only send to confirmed addresses, get delivery confirmation, signature confirmation on anything over 250 bucks. Keep all emails.

They don't always side with the buyer, they mainly side with who is right (& prepared to prove it)

Al


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## bluemoonluck (Oct 28, 2008)

DiggerDirect said:


> Sounds like you know your going to get screwed before you even sell the item to me? My question would be why bother?


Well this one person has already screwed me over once, when we didn't use PayPal, and now she's supposed to be "making right" by paying what she owes (with the help of the court system). Fool me once and all that. 

My attorney has asked me if I'm okay with her paying me via PayPal, because it's an international deal. If I say no, then they won't put that as an option in the court paperwork and I'd be giving her my banking details for a direct bank transfer instead. She can't revoke the bank transfer, that's already been checked into. But I'd hate for her to be court-ordered to pay me, send me the money and provide proof to the court that she has done so, and then have her go thru PayPal and get her money back. Then we'd have to do this whole court song-and-dance (at my expense!) again.


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## Belfrybat (Feb 21, 2003)

I don't see the problem. How can she get money back from Paypal once it transfers other than for a purchase? And this clearly would not be a purchase. Plus if it's court ordered and she tries that, all you have to do is provide a copy of the court order to Paypal.

Here's Paypal's Buyer Protection plan: https://www.paypal.com/uk/webapps/mpp/buyer-protection

*Eligibility Requirements*


Claims can only be made for physical goods that can be posted and are not prohibited
Buyers must raise a dispute within 45 days of a single PayPal payment for the full price of the item. If no satisfactory response is received from the seller, a claim must be filed within 20 days of raising the dispute
Buyers cannot make multiple claims on the same payment
Please note that if the seller has accurately described an item, but you&#8217;re just not happy with it, that doesn&#8217;t qualify for Purchase Protection
Other eligibility requirements apply. See terms and conditions
*Exclusions*
Complaints related to vehicles, airline travel, custom-made items and eBay classified advertisements are not covered under the Buyer Protection policy. Further exclusions apply. See User Agreement


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## Wolfy-hound (May 5, 2013)

Paypal will usually remove the funds when there's a dispute, then they do try to figure out who is in the right. If you can show you shipped something and show them it arrived, then generally they'll file in favor of the seller. If you didn't track the package, then they may well side with the buyer.

In the case of "send as a gift" I think you're out of luck. In your case with a court ordered Paypal, I don't know if it will just be a transfer or if it would count as a transaction.


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## joebill (Mar 2, 2013)

Personally, if it was money "under dispute" and I did not trust the payer, I'd just insist on a postal money order. Plus, if there is a lawyer involved, have him receive the funds and transfer them to you.....As an "officer of the court", his word as to what happened if somebody tried to screw around would be pretty solid....Joe


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## bluemoonluck (Oct 28, 2008)

It's an International matter - I'm in the US and she's in the UK. So UK collection laws apply, and it's not like I can just hop over to the court office to file the appropriate paperwork if she pulls something hinky. I have to pay a UK solicitor to do all this for me, at my expense, as apparently in the UK you can't file for attorney's fees or interest fees or anything like that - just the amount that's in dispute :shrug:.

Unfortunately money orders/etc aren't an option, as all her funds are in GBP and I need them in US dollars to deposit into my bank.

So getting back to my OP, the general consensus is that if the funds are sent directly from her bank account (NOT credit card) and she sends it PayPal as "Personal" and NOT "Purchase", she wouldn't be able to request a refund from PayPal?


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## joebill (Mar 2, 2013)

I'd think that the folks to ask would be PayPal. You can communicate with them on their site, explain the situation and get an answer...Joe


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## mistletoad (Apr 17, 2003)

bluemoonluck said:


> apparently in the UK you can't file for attorney's fees or interest fees or anything like that - just the amount that's in dispute


After judgement your solicitor should have asked the judge to award all costs to the defendant - that is the standard practise and is one of the best reasons that we see fewer frivolous lawsuits in the UK.


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## bluemoonluck (Oct 28, 2008)

mistletoad said:


> After judgement your solicitor should have asked the judge to award all costs to the defendant - that is the standard practise and is one of the best reasons that we see fewer frivolous lawsuits in the UK.


Nothing's been settled yet. My solicitor wrote a letter to the person who owes $$ stating our case and letting her know that she needs to pay up, or we're taking her to court. Debtor wrote back and basically said "fine, take me to court then" . She's stalling and hoping that I'll drop the issue, which isn't gonna happen :nono:

So the solicitor is writing up the papers that she's going to send to the court. When I initially asked the debtor for a refund, I told her I'd accept a PayPal payment, so the solicitor wanted to know if that was still the case - hence my question here. I've been told what I owe the solicitor, but no mention has been made of them being able to recover those fees when we win in court :shrug: It would be great if that were the case, but if not I'll still get back the vast majority of the money I've sunk into this, so I'm okay with that.


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## Lilith (Dec 29, 2012)

bluemoonluck said:


> Unfortunately money orders/etc aren't an option, as all her funds are in GBP and I need them in US dollars to deposit into my bank.


If my bank could not deal with currency conversions, I would find another bank. My parents and I bank at the same place, and they are headed to Alaska in a few days. They went to their bank and ordered $1000 Canadian currency no problem. They also asked if they could deposit any unused currency back to their account upon return, and were told that they would have to have it converted back to US dollars first, which takes about 5 days, but was 100% possible. We bank with a locally owned bank that only has about 20 branches in the whole world. If these guys can handle it, I'm sure a larger bank can too ... just ask them if they can help you out, if not, you may want a new bank before doing international business.


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## Lilith (Dec 29, 2012)

Found this today, hopefully it can be of some help. https://www.paypal.com/us/webapps/mpp/security/chargeback-guide


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## simi-steading (Sep 27, 2012)

If the person pays you paypal using merchandise or services, you will lose 3%... I would not take paypal... If you would have stated in the OP why you were asking about this, I would have said no paypal.. If it was me, I wouldn't even consider it. Direct bank deposit only. No check, not money order, nothing. DIRECT PAYMENT.. 

That way when a payment isn't made, you can prove it wasn't, Any other way would be harder to prove.. Bank statements are pretty solid evidence.


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## Saffron (May 24, 2006)

Honestly, why not set up a separate account at your bank to receive this money. Make sure the bank will do the currency conversion first, though.


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## WildernesFamily (Mar 11, 2006)

Yes, this person will be able to do a chargeback if the money is sent as a "gift". All she has to claim is that the transaction was not authorized.

See here for more: 
https://www.paypal.com/us/webapps/mpp/security/chargeback-guide

Why not have her pay you via Moneygram? She can do that online or visit a Thomas Cook office and do it there.

Sorry you're having to deal with this.. I got burned by PP years ago when I sold a laptop on CL and they paid via paypal and then did a chargeback. PP wasn't very helpful since I had no tracking number :shrug:


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## GoldenCityMuse (Apr 15, 2009)

DO not use paypal.

Have her wire you the money thru western union. Once it is sent, you can virtually never get it back. It will cost her, but that is not your problem.

You could also look into Skrill, used to be moneybookers.com.


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