# Fix or replace?



## Bellyman (Jul 6, 2013)

I have a laptop I've been using pretty much exclusively, often many hours a day and most every day. It's between 4 and 5 years old. It's a 17" but not a high resolution. It runs Win8, kept there on purpose. It was not an expensive computer, something in the area of $3xx.00, really can't remember exactly.

It's getting tired. The battery is shot and needs replaced. The keyboard is shot and needs to be replaced. It needs work on cleaning out and regreasing the heat sinc. So fixing wouldn't be free and I'd still have a fairly old laptop.

So the question is, is it better to fix the old or buy new? I figure close to $100 in parts and shipping to fix. Don't know about a new one yet. Mostly curious what others think.

Thanks!


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## Nevada (Sep 9, 2004)

I could tell you more if you provide the brand & model of laptop.

Batteries aren't expensive from the right source. You can buy aftermarket batteries for most laptops priced at about $15 at eBay.

Shipping might not be as much as you imagine. I ship laptops in the Regional Rate Box B (actually the B2). It's about half what regular priority mail costs. Post offices don't stock those boxes but you can order them for free online and the mailman will bring them to you.

https://store.usps.com/store/product/shipping-supplies/priority-mail-regional-rate-box---b2-P_RRB_B2

All laptops fit except a few 17" models, but many 17" laptops will fit. The inside dimensions are at the link above. I just shipped one from Las Vegas to Seattle and it was $10.95.


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## backwoodsman7 (Mar 22, 2007)

Bellyman said:


> The battery is shot and needs replaced. The keyboard is shot and needs to be replaced. It needs work on cleaning out and regreasing the heat sinc. So fixing wouldn't be free and I'd still have a fairly old laptop.


The last laptop keyboard I bought was $10 shipped. As Nevada says, batteries are cheap, although I've had mixed results with off-brand batteries, so I usually get genuine batteries for more like $25 or so.

Why do you think it needs new heatsink compound? That's something you wouldn't know until you've disassembled it and looked, which is usually the only reason it would need new compound. Usually all they need is to blow the dust out of the heatsink.

Unless there's more to the story, I'd fix it. If it needed a new hard drive, or if it has a really low-end CPU that's not really fast enough like some of the cheapest laptops, that would swing the balance more toward replacing.


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## Bellyman (Jul 6, 2013)

Thanks, Nevada.

Wasn't planning to ship he laptop, just get the parts to fix it shipped to me. 

It's an HP Pavilion g7. AMD A8-4500M processor, 1.9 GHz, 4GB of RAM installed, Windows 8.1 installed. It's actually been a pretty good computer. It generally starts up fast and is pretty decent for basic web browsing. Video quality is so-so and dealing with larger files can bog it down pretty quickly. Updates can get pretty slow. But overall, I have been pretty happy with it. 

I've been getting error messages that the battery is failing. My keyboard is getting a bit quirky, it's worn out. About half the letters on the keys are completely gone, rubbed completely off from use. Like I said, this thing has been used quite a lot and has a lot of hours on it. 

Interestingly, I've had absolutely zero issues with the hard drive, which I've appreciated.

It might be worth spending a few bucks to get it more usable and just hang in for a little while. At some point, I may want a desktop again and this might be a decent computer to have for when I travel. Dunno. But I do appreciate your thoughts. Thanks!


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## Bellyman (Jul 6, 2013)

backwoodsman7 said:


> The last laptop keyboard I bought was $10 shipped. As Nevada says, batteries are cheap, although I've had mixed results with off-brand batteries, so I usually get genuine batteries for more like $25 or so.
> 
> Why do you think it needs new heatsink compound? That's something you wouldn't know until you've disassembled it and looked, which is usually the only reason it would need new compound. Usually all they need is to blow the dust out of the heatsink.
> 
> Unless there's more to the story, I'd fix it. If it needed a new hard drive, or if it has a really low-end CPU that's not really fast enough like some of the cheapest laptops, that would swing the balance more toward replacing.


Thanks for the thoughts.

Batteries... I've had some of the same experiences as you have with cheap batteries in the past. It's been a few years back so I don't know if those things still apply or not, as in cheap batteries failing quickly.

It may indeed need some cleaning and not necessarily the heatsink compound redone. The reason I know that is that I've been around that block before, with this computer. The fans kick up higher, more and more, and the heatsink compound tends to dry out over time making it worse. I've been noticing the fans more of late and figure it's soon time to do another cleaning and regreasing. I'm sure it would go longer, but the fans running at higher speeds is irritating to me. The cooling design on these things wasn't exactly stellar.

Last I looked at keyboards, they were in the $30 to $40 range but I should probably look again. Those are super easy to replace, almost as easy as replacing the battery. They just pop right out.

Hard drive is good. But processor is kinda weak. It gets bogged down pretty easily when doing anything much more than basic browsing. Plus, it's something like 4-5 years old, which makes me wonder about what I could realistically expect for longevity. 

Don't know, may blow it out, find a cheap battery and the cheapest keyboard I can get a hold of and take a chance I'll get another year or so of life out of it. I may also update to a desktop later this year or early next year so that would relegate this one to mostly travel use only. It could likely handle that for several more years. 

Anyway, appreciating the thoughts! Thanks!


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## Nevada (Sep 9, 2004)

Bellyman said:


> It's an HP Pavilion g7. AMD A8-4500M processor, 1.9 GHz, 4GB of RAM installed


Yes, definately worth resurrecting.



Bellyman said:


> Interestingly, I've had absolutely zero issues with the hard drive, which I've appreciated.


Consider migrating from the hard drive to a solid state drive. That alone will double the speed of your laptop.


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## Bellyman (Jul 6, 2013)

Nevada said:


> Yes, definately worth resurrecting.
> 
> 
> 
> Consider migrating from the hard drive to a solid state drive. That alone will double the speed of your laptop.


Thanks!! The more I think about it, the more I think keeping the thing going might be a wise thing to do.

Curious how you would migrate to a SSD with a laptop like this. Would you replace the one that's in it with an SSD? Or add an external SSD? (I'm not sure there's room inside for both internally.) Or would you consider a hybrid type drive? I've not messed with SSDs much so am interested in your thoughts there. You're right, that might really speed things up, especially trying to open large files I have sitting there on the HD.


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## Nevada (Sep 9, 2004)

You'll want to replace the current hard drive with a SSD. There are ways to migrate your entire drive contents, but you're better off with a fresh Windows install. You can always buy an external hard drive enclosure to access data on the old drive.

I haven't been impressed with hybrid drives. Go with a straight SSD.


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## Meinecke (Jun 30, 2017)

Yip...go straight SSD...and up the ram to 8 gig as well, since ram is chicken cheap either...
Your baby will fly again...Try to stay on W7 64...dont waste time with W10...


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## backwoodsman7 (Mar 22, 2007)

Bellyman said:


> I've been getting error messages that the battery is failing.


If you don't need the battery to work and have more capacity than whatever it has now, you don't need to replace it. Just turn off those messages.

Don't mess with the hard disk. It works, and you're used to it being slower than an SSD. Get the machine back to operating condition; then, later, if you want, you can change it to an SSD. It's a big project for someone who isn't used to doing it, and you might want to just leave it alone until you actually need a new drive, if that time ever comes.

Don't mess with the RAM. You probably have 4GB, and that's plenty for most folks. You probably aren't even using more than half of that most of the time. If you want to check that, press ctrl-shift-esc and watch the memory usage for a while. If it's not using all of what it already has, adding more is a waste of money.


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## Nevada (Sep 9, 2004)

backwoodsman7 said:


> Don't mess with the hard disk. It works, and you're used to it being slower than an SSD. Get the machine back to operating condition; then, later, if you want, you can change it to an SSD. It's a big project for someone who isn't used to doing it, and you might want to just leave it alone until you actually need a new drive, if that time ever comes.


That's probably good advice. I sometimes give advice based on what I might do without knowing what knowledge the poster might have.



backwoodsman7 said:


> Don't mess with the RAM. You probably have 4GB, and that's plenty for most folks.


I agree. 4 GB is fine unless your needs are extraordinary.


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## Bellyman (Jul 6, 2013)

Lots of options, and I appreciate the thoughts! I wouldn't call myself an expert, not by any means, but I can usually get stuff done. Have had this computer about as torn down as it gets hardware wise. Haven't done a lot of OS installs, though, or heavy registry type stuff. Have changed out a couple of hard drives but nothing recent, and never an SSD. 

Not sure how it will all play out but again, I appreciate the discussion and the suggestions. Thanks, guys. I'll update the thread if there's more to tell you all about.


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## HermitJohn (May 10, 2002)

Lot of low end laptops sold NOW arent that much more powerful than yours. You will notice lot better response if you use an ad blocker and script blocker and self destructing cookie extension. Also win10 is known for wanting to serve multiple hidden masters while you are trying to use it. But if you have allowed updates to earlier windows systems, they added this bit of joy also. 

I have couple of the mini "cloudbooks" People in reviews on Amazon lament how slow they are. Well they are if you are sharing them with every tom dick and harry wanting to track you and steal your date and do constant marketing updates. I left my little Lenovo with win10 as I use it as a Kindle reader, very small and lightweight. But blocked all the nonsense. With most of the holes plugged in win10, its actually plenty fast since its only serving me. This with only 2GB ram and no way to increase it as its soldered to motherboard.

Now the Acer Cloudbook kept having keyboard and trackpad driver issues with win10, even upgraded to latest bios. It proved very linux unfriendly until I found out Puppy Slacko 64 6.9.9.9 with linux kernel 4.9.30 ran very nicely on it. Its lot smaller and less hassle than locking down win10 and doesnt have the problems with drivers. Its a beta, and been such long time, like release candidate three, but think they are doing the official release Puppy Slacko64 7.0 soon. I personally found nothing in this beta that caused me any problem. And I finally upgraded my desktop to it also, it had gotten slow with various cruft that accumulates over several years use. The has about same computing power as the mini laptops execpt it has 4GB RAM. It can take 8GB but seriously no reason with Puppy.

Honest unless you are a gamer, it doesnt take lot computing power, but the devil is in the details.


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## Bellyman (Jul 6, 2013)

Thanks, John. A Linux setup is something I still have yet to really have a serious go at. It's on my to-do-someday list, though. I think I could do quite a bit with one of them.


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## HermitJohn (May 10, 2002)

Win10 can work well but takes lot work to make it run well on low spec hardware. The big advantage to linux is that you arent continually having to fight your own operating system playing Mata Hari in background. The big goal of win10 isnt to do your bidding, its to create ongoing revenue stream for M$ in any way possible.


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## Bellyman (Jul 6, 2013)

I do have an old desktop that has been sitting in a storage unit for maybe 8 or 9 years that I've been thinking I may get out and play with again. I believe it has Windows 2000 on it if that tells you anything. Might be a version of Linux that would run on it, maybe well enough to have some fun with it, and who knows, maybe even good enough to be useful. And if I kill it completely, I won't have lost much. LOL! It's so long ago that I couldn't even begin to remember anything like specs. It wasn't new when I put it away, I'd guess maybe a 2004 model. (?)


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## HermitJohn (May 10, 2002)

Bellyman said:


> I do have an old desktop that has been sitting in a storage unit for maybe 8 or 9 years that I've been thinking I may get out and play with again. I believe it has Windows 2000 on it if that tells you anything. Might be a version of Linux that would run on it, maybe well enough to have some fun with it, and who knows, maybe even good enough to be useful. And if I kill it completely, I won't have lost much. LOL! It's so long ago that I couldn't even begin to remember anything like specs. It wasn't new when I put it away, I'd guess maybe a 2004 model. (?)


The specs really matter on one that old. I have an old Panasonic Toughbook with 1.6ghz single core processor and maxxed out at 1.25GB RAM. This is really minimal in modern world. I found $2 adapter for using 32GB mSATA SSD in place of the built in PATA hard drive. Made all the difference, though found latest Xubuntu actually booted faster than Puppy on this one. So if one version linux doesnt work for you, try another. Its not super fast computer obviously, but can do basic surfing ok with it. This of course is with browsers using script, cookie, and ad killers. That makes so much difference on low end computer, you truly have no extra resources to share with the profit makers.

I will say you can use even lower spec computer, but you will need to run a very light weight browser. The computer may run a small version linux like Slitaz or some versions Puppy, but the modern browsers use lot RAM all by themselves. 1GB RAM pretty much minimum for both operating system and modern browser to run. Meaning the tail tries to wag the dog with minimal RAM. Oh and with linux and especially low spec machine, you need to create a generous swap partition. I would suggest a 2GB swap partition. Traditionally windows uses swap files and linux uses swap partition. However some of newer linux has went to swap files I think. Not to worry, the small linux like you want still use swap partition. To some extent swap files/partition can make up for low RAM.

I once put win98 on a truly old desktop that could barely run win3.1. You werent supposed to be able to do this, but there are tricks... I actually was kinda amazed it would even boot. Anyway you could hear the hard drive on this poor old machine constantly churning with all the swap files it needed. Sounded like summer rain on a tin roof. Slow as molasses. Really it could only truly run few very tiny simple games. Just pointing out there are limits to everything. Even if you can get modern software running on old hardware, it maybe not very usable. But you never know until you try.


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## Bellyman (Jul 6, 2013)

You're probably right, John. It's pretty old, a dinosaur might be a good description. LOL! 

When I finally do pull it out of the box again, I'll have to look and see just what the specs are. It might be it would be best to just let 'er go peacefully and quietly into that good night. 

Would love to have some new(er?) hardware to play with. I have a tendency to start looking at processors, then motherboards, then cooling fans, then power supplies, then video cards, then 4K monitors and before I know it, end up at $1k worth of stuff. Yikes! And then I don't buy anything. LOL! 

Whatcha think about the current crop of under $500 desktops? Is it worth trying to hog tie and man-handle Win10? (I've not used a machine with Win10 on it yet.) That would get me some newer hardware but wouldn't be nearly as updatable in that price range.


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## backwoodsman7 (Mar 22, 2007)

Bellyman said:


> Whatcha think about the current crop of under $500 desktops?


Hardware-wise, they're junk, built just good enough so most make it through the warranty period. You're better off with a better-quality refurb with Windows 7 for $100-$150.


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## Bellyman (Jul 6, 2013)

backwoodsman7 said:


> Hardware-wise, they're junk, built just good enough so most make it through the warranty period. You're better off with a better-quality refurb with Windows 7 for $100-$150.


Hope I'm not putting you on the spot, but do you have an example or two of what you're looking at?


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## backwoodsman7 (Mar 22, 2007)

Bellyman said:


> Hope I'm not putting you on the spot, but do you have an example or two of what you're looking at?


https://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductList.aspx?Submit=ENE&N=100019096 4016 50010772 600566989 600566605&IsNodeId=1&SpeTabStoreType=97&name=Desktop Computers&isdeptsrh=1

There are other reputable suppliers too, like Rakuten.com. And you can get better prices on Ebay, but you have to know exactly what you're looking at, and be very careful picking a reputable seller, and if anything goes wrong you have basically no recourse. So I don't suggest Ebay for most folks.

I usually get Dell because that's what I'm more familiar with, but only the business-class lines like Optiplex. HP makes business-class machines too, but both also make cheap junk, so you can't go just on the brand name. I'd recommend a Core 2 or newer CPU (no Pentium 4, Pentium D, etc.), at least 2.5gHz, at least 4GB memory; that'll get you a good usable machine.

There is one seller in particular I'd recommend, The Good Computer Guy. I recently bought a machine from them for a customer. There was some shipping damage, and they were very good about taking care of it, even for a first-time customer like me, without knowing I'll probably give them more business. That says more than anything else about how good a supplier is. They sell on both Newegg and Ebay, and other marketplaces too, I'm sure:
https://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductList.aspx?Submit=ENE&N=100019096 4016 600566989 1065658990&IsNodeId=1&SpeTabStoreType=97
http://stores.ebay.com/thegoodcomputerguy/Dell-Desktops-/_i.html?_fsub=6039465015&_sop=2&rt=nc


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## Bellyman (Jul 6, 2013)

backwoodsman7 said:


> https://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductList.aspx?Submit=ENE&N=100019096 4016 50010772 600566989 600566605&IsNodeId=1&SpeTabStoreType=97&name=Desktop Computers&isdeptsrh=1
> 
> There are other reputable suppliers too, like Rakuten.com. And you can get better prices on Ebay, but you have to know exactly what you're looking at, and be very careful picking a reputable seller, and if anything goes wrong you have basically no recourse. So I don't suggest Ebay for most folks.
> 
> ...


Thank you very much! That info is helpful. I'll go poking around a bit and see what "talks" to me. I had kinda thought that the business-class PCs were probably a better bet so will plan on steering in that direction.


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## HermitJohn (May 10, 2002)

You kinda want to look for minimum of a third generation i5 or i7 in a used computer unless you are buying a mini for a specific purpose. Anything less and its pretty much what you already own. You can find retired buisiness laptops with these for around $50 missing the hard drive. Or $150 if somebody else takes one and throws in a used hard drive and copy of win10. It was removed for security reasons. You want to replace hard drive with an SSD anyway so doesnt matter. Most of these take upto 8GB RAM, some upto 16GB. These originally had win7 or win8 usually. And a COA so you can reinstall it, download free copy from M$ website or dvd copy for few bucks on ebay. These legal copies wont have activation code, they are for restoring fubar copy of windows on computers that came with windows. Which is exactly what you want to do. Install what was originally factory installed and it will activate with COA code or if win10, as long as it previously had win10 activated it will autoactivate when you go online. There is also still a backdoor way to do official free upgrade to win10 if you want. Or linux of course. You want the high end buisiness laptops, not the consumer grade stuff. It makes lot difference in longevity and oddly sometimes the buisiness stuff is cheaper. Crazy how much some of these cost new.

You can also still piece together your own desktop computer and pick out high quality components. Unless you are wanting cutting edge gaming computer, it wouldnt be that expensive and you get to pick motherboard, processor, etc.


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## Nevada (Sep 9, 2004)

Bellyman said:


> Whatcha think about the current crop of under $500 desktops? Is it worth trying to hog tie and man-handle Win10?


There are good reasons to get a desktop, such as a gamer being able to install a newer video adapter, but for general home use laptops seem to be a better value. They've come way down in price from the boutique item they used to be, and they also come with monitor, keyboard & mouse. I generally look for off-lease HP business laptops.

What I look for in a system isn't the ability to run Windows 10. I look for a minimum 2-core processor so it can run 64-bit applications and operating systems.


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## Bellyman (Jul 6, 2013)

HermitJohn said:


> You kinda want to look for minimum of a third generation i5 or i7 in a used computer unless you are buying a mini for a specific purpose. Anything less and its pretty much what you already own. You can find retired buisiness laptops with these for around $50 missing the hard drive. Or $150 if somebody else takes one and throws in a used hard drive and copy of win10. It was removed for security reasons. You want to replace hard drive with an SSD anyway so doesnt matter. Most of these take upto 8GB RAM, some upto 16GB. These originally had win7 or win8 usually. And a COA so you can reinstall it, download free copy from M$ website or dvd copy for few bucks on ebay. These legal copies wont have activation code, they are for restoring fubar copy of windows on computers that came with windows. Which is exactly what you want to do. Install what was originally factory installed and it will activate with COA code or if win10, as long as it previously had win10 activated it will autoactivate when you go online. There is also still a backdoor way to do official free upgrade to win10 if you want. Or linux of course. You want the high end buisiness laptops, not the consumer grade stuff. It makes lot difference in longevity and oddly sometimes the buisiness stuff is cheaper. Crazy how much some of these cost new.
> 
> You can also still piece together your own desktop computer and pick out high quality components. Unless you are wanting cutting edge gaming computer, it wouldnt be that expensive and you get to pick motherboard, processor, etc.


Thanks, John. I'm finding, searching through various websites, that the used / refurb computers with the i5 and i7 chips in them aren't a whole lot more than what I'd be paying for just the chip if I were building my own computer. It seems like most are 3rd generation but there are a few 4th gen sprinkled in, and some 2nd gen for the really cheap stuff... the price generally reflects the generation. 

I would like to keep an up to date version of Windoze running. It's not that I like Windoze, but there is a bit of work that I do on my computer that I would have a very hard time doing without it. (I've tried, been around the block numerous times with others doing the same work, they all end up back with at least some version of Windows.) I did wonder how long Win7 would be viable. I'm using Win8.1 as I type this.

I have always kinda wanted to put together my own desktop. Somehow, I always seem to end up with the cutting edge gaming computer and the price to go with when I add up all the components. It's hard to know when to say, "enough", when there is always something just a little better for just a few more dollars, and then even better than that for even more dollars... and so it goes. I have read that as the generations of processors have moved forward, the onboard graphics have improved with each generation, too, so have wondered whether some of the onboard graphics for newer stuff would even be comparable to some of the stand-alone graphics cards on some of the older stuff. UUGH!!!!


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## Bellyman (Jul 6, 2013)

Nevada said:


> There are good reasons to get a desktop, such as a gamer being able to install a newer video adapter, but for general home use laptops seem to be a better value. They've come way down in price from the boutique item they used to be, and they also come with monitor, keyboard & mouse. *I generally look for off-lease HP business laptops.*
> 
> What I look for in a system isn't the ability to run Windows 10. I look for a minimum 2-core processor so it can run 64-bit applications and operating systems.


Thanks, Nevada. I did see a couple of the HP business DESKTOPS on a website (can't remember which one) that looked fairly impressive for not a whole lot of money, I think i5 models, though, I have noted that the i5 can be either two or four core on some of the desktops, and come in quite a variety of clock speeds.

I'm not really wanting to go Win10 anyway but I suppose I'd deal with it if whatever computer came with it. Win7 or Win8.1 would be where I'd rather be for now.


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