# If you could retire comfortably on $25k per year by...



## Shrek

...relocating to a Latin American nation would you?

A former coworker told us today that he is planning on taking the early buyout his current employer is offering and with his investments he will have around 30k per year in income and showed us an article touting the benefits to U.S. retirees currently available in Panama, Ecuador and Costa Rica.

He said he and his wife figure the buyout package will be enough for the move and they can keep the small mobile home on their property here for summers and holidays and let their son and daughter in law take their current house.

When he asked my opinion I told him while I sometimes imagine traveling to Costa Rica with the hummingbirds for winter, the U.S. retirees evicted from the Baja coast by Fox and forfeiting their retirement home investments a few years back soured me to the idea of retiring internationally.

So would you seriously consider relocating to Latin America in retirement?


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## dizzy

No. My hubby keeps saying that when he retires he wants to move out of the country, but I have no desire to do so. My children are here. My friends are here. In fact, my whole life is here. Plus, what do you do if the country suddenly becomes hostile to Americans?


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## sniper69

I have a friend, her and her husband live in Nicaragua. They seem to enjoy it there. There are other ex-pats that live there as well - and some they have become friends with. It is definitely something to think about before doing - and learning Spanish would be a good thing. 

Now if I were to decide to "retire"/live outside the U.S. - I would look at various countries and the pros and cons of each.


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## hawgsquatch

I might consider it, but I would never put all my eggs into one basket. At one time most offshore income was protected from taxes but recently that changed. I think of all of the places I have visited I would most like to live in Singapore or Thailand for a while. I just want some kind of fancy dancy escape pod for when things go south. Mexico is actually a wonderful place to visit, I just cannot see the wisdom in buying anything anywhere one is not a citizen.


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## Ramblin Wreck

No, it's not my cup of tea, visiting yes but immigrating no. However, if I were looking, Canada would be my first choice. Portugal would maybe be my second choice. Several years ago I saw an interview of a retired carpenter from Denver who was living very well on social security alone in Portugal.  He could not afford the coast but inland about 30 miles he had his own hacienda with fruit and nut trees. He seemed to love it.


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## where I want to

No. Most American are mislead by all the rights they have here and, in fact, all the rights given to non-citizens. They think it will be the same elsewhere. Then they find out that, unlike the US, most countries do not extend their privileges of government, of which they probably don't have as much to start with, to non-citizens. They find the idea silly to begin with- imagine disadvantaging your fellow citizens for the sake of foreigners........

Not to mention that once outside of the US, you can easily be the target of blame for whatever, even if you adapt. For all the noise about US intolerance and racism, it is nothing to what most countries find acceptable.

You have to be much more adaptable than most people to find a secure place elsewhere, especially Latin Amerca. It helps if your ancestors are from the same area. But if there is a crisis locally, and many parts of Latin America are volatile, you are at the bottom of the feeding chain.


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## Micheal

Thought about it, but.......

Personally couldn't take the heat (weather wise) in Cent America. 
Have some trouble communicating with others in English (American) let alone try another lang.
Healthcare is iffy in some of those areas and U.S. insurance companies don't really cover you outside the U.S., other than emergencies.
And the big stopper - as long as you are a U.S. citizen you have to still file and pay taxes (at least fed.). But there are many every year that do the alternative and give up U.S. citizenship which in it's self is another whole can of worms....

Although I would consider Wales, Scotland, Ireland, Belgium, Switzerland, maybe England or parts of Spain, and Portugal. Maybe not to "live" there but sure would like to consider extended stays.....


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## ET1 SS

Could I retire comfortably on $25k per year?

Yes, absolutely.

I am retired. My pension is much less than $25k. For me that would be an increase in my pension.

After I retired, we migrated to Maine. My wife works in a grocery store, and we earn a good deal more than the average household income in this region.


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## Nevada

I might consider retiring in a foreign country if I had a lot of tax liability, but I don't have that problem. I'll stay here for sure.


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## susieneddy

we are considering retiring to Belize or Mexico but leaning more towards Mexico. We are going down in Feb for 16 days to check things out.
We can retire on our SS and never touch our retirement money unless we want to travel


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## mnn2501

DW's sister and her significant other retired almost 2 years ago and moved to Panama.
They have a 2 bedroom/2 bathroom luxury penthouse condo right on the beach (Pacific ocean) for $800 a month, weekly maid service for $60 a month (yes $15 per week), they go out to eat for most meals (at least 5 days a week, twice a day), and have a thriving ex-pat community they socialize with- and they are putting money in the bank from their retirement pay (both were teachers and have decent pensions)
We've visited them and while it was fun for a few days, there's no way I'd move to Central America myself. 
Laying on the beach and drinking is not my idea of what I want to do when I retire - it apparently works for them - OK to be fair that's not all they do, but I couldn't stay busy enough to be happy there.


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## dlskidmore

The health care, sanitation, and rule of law are lacking in many of the places with low cost of living. It is a calculated risk. I certainly have considered it though. I'd probably go to India before Central America. They speak English there, have some decent health facilities if you can afford them, and if you have a background in any of the outsourced industries there you might be able to pick up some part time consulting work to keep your brain active during retirement.

The major upside to living in a poor country is the price of labor is so low, you can afford to hire some help as you're slowing down and can't do it all yourself any more. You could probably even afford an in-home nurse for your final years. But you always run the risk of the locals taking advantage of you or the political climate turning ugly.

You could consider a second career working for a mission or NGO. You'd get a more primitive lifestyle, engaging work, basic expenses covered, and a home team to back you up if something goes wrong. You don't get a lot of freedom to do your own thing though. The donors behind the organization want results...


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## jwal10

Never. I was born 2 miles from here and will never leave. We live very comfortably here, on way less than 1/4th that. We also have a very good support system here as we grow older. We know no one outside the U.S. I can not fly and get very car sick after a short trip, if not driving....James


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## Vahomesteaders

Nope. Plenty of places in America where you can retire on that and less than that. Wouldn't leave the safety of our shores.


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## Melissa

That is plenty of money around here. I would never leave this country. I would not be all that unhappy if I never had to go more than 20 miles from where I am right now!


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## unregistered41671

I have traveled to lots of different places in the world, Bahamas, Mexico, Europe, Canada and Australia. I enjoyed all of my trips but could not wait to get back home to the good ole USA. I reckon I will inhale and exhale my last breath here.


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## Glade Runner

Having lived for quite a number of years in other countries I would give retiring to a foreign country a qualified yes. You have to be very selective in the country you pick, quality of medical care, stability of government, personal liberty, corruption level, etc. You really, really need to speak the language. The ideal situation is a spouse that's local and can integrate you into the local community. Frankly, I know a number of countries where it's possible to pick up a nice, bouncy local spouse to take care of you in your old age without a whole lot of problem. Of course, your current spouse is not going to be happy about that. If I were going to do it, Costa Rica would be high on my list, Thailand will do, Portugal is nice, Ireland is intriguing. Wouldn't touch Mexico with a barge pole.


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## Bellyman

It's a little farther south than most of you have been talking about but if I had to pick a place to go make a new life, I'd be having a serious look at Chile. Yes, I'd have to learn a new language. 

What I'm trying to figure out is what you need in the US that a $30k/yr income wouldn't cover. There are a lot of people who never make that in their entire lives, some of which seem to do pretty well. Without the constraints of having to be in a certain location for a particular job, $30k/yr would allow for some pretty good living, in my opinion. Then again, I have no interest in fancy houses or expensive cars or extravagant restaurants or happening nightlife.

To each their own.


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## ET1 SS

Bellyman said:


> ... What I'm trying to figure out is what you need in the US that a $30k/yr income wouldn't cover. There are a lot of people who never make that in their entire lives, some of which seem to do pretty well. Without the constraints of having to be in a certain location for a particular job, $30k/yr would allow for some pretty good living, in my opinion. Then again, I have no interest in fancy houses or expensive cars or extravagant restaurants or happening nightlife.
> 
> To each their own.


I made a lot more when I was working. My Dw and I agreed to strictly budget ourselves to spending only a small portion of my income, while we invested the bulk of my earnings.

I retired as soon as I qualified for pension, we bought our homestead, and now we do well on a small income.

However as you said: "To each their own", many others would insist that they can not survive on any less.


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## dlskidmore

ET1 SS said:


> However as you said: "To each their own", many others would insist that they can not survive on any less.


The more you have, the more you spend. I know I spent way less when I had less, and it didn't hurt that much. I didn't have as many flashy toys, but I had a functioning computer and plenty to do. I had a smaller house and we kept it pretty cold. I ate more beans and rice. I thought about each purchase more. ...but living on the income I have now, it's hard to see where all that extra money is going and how on earth we'd get by without it.


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## TxGypsy

I love Mexico! If I can ever just get all the little ducks in a row and get them moving in a forward direction so that I don't have to keep rounding the little darlins up all the time......I would love to move there full time again.

I lived in Mexico full time for a bit over a year and loved it. I go down there most winters and am in fact overdue this year. 

Wonderful and cheaply priced medical care, food, domestic help, transportation and massages! Seriously....I get an hour long full body massage in a resort town for $12 US!!! At $70-90 an hour here in Texas.....I simply can't afford it.

Always something new to see. Just riding the bus across town can be an adventure. 

I am seriously homesick for Mexico right now. I was in the local Mexican grocery store yesterday and nearly started crying.

Oh and yes....you can live very very comfortably on that amount of money. I lived well on far less. If I need to save some money I head down to Mexico and let cash pile up in my checking account while I pamper myself.


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## Guest

I have raised two kids, and paid a mortgage in the 7th largest city in the USA on that wage, as a Single Income parent. It's do-able.


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## chuckhole

Possum Belly said:


> I have traveled to lots of different places in the world, Bahamas, Mexico, Europe, Canada and Australia. I enjoyed all of my trips but could not wait to get back home to the good ole USA. I reckon I will inhale and exhale my last breath here.


Ditto and Amen.

I have been to Brazil, Singapore, Australia, Indonesia, S. Korea, Taipei, Tokyo, Amsterdam, Scotland, London, Moscow and Louisiana (a little Texas humor) :thumb:. The best trip has always been the trip home.

And we get to vote on our conditions. Anywhere else, as a non-citizen, you would have no say in your situation.


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## Oxankle

After reading all the posts in this thread I conclude that I have been hit with the lucky stick.


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## Bellyman

I have wondered how many world travelers have traveled RECENTLY, as in the last year or two. It's not the same world as it was 50 or 20 or even 10 years ago. And the US isn't the economic powerhouse it once was, either. Freedom? Um... ever hear of the Patriot act? Ever hear of people having their goods or cash stolen from them by the police and never seeing it again even though they commit no crime? Ever hear of innocent people being shot and killed in their own homes because of a 'no knock warrant' being executed on the wrong house? (oops.) Ever hear of people living on the streets and eating out of dumpsters? This is in the US. And there are people who are figuring out that maybe some of those third world countries of the 1970s and 1980s aren't quite as primitive as they've been told.


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## sniper69

Bellyman said:


> I have wondered how many world travelers have traveled RECENTLY, as in the last year or two. It's not the same world as it was 50 or 20 or even 10 years ago. And the US isn't the economic powerhouse it once was, either. Freedom? Um... ever hear of the Patriot act? Ever hear of people having their goods or cash stolen from them by the police and never seeing it again even though they commit no crime? Ever hear of innocent people being shot and killed in their own homes because of a 'no knock warrant' being executed on the wrong house? (oops.) Ever hear of people living on the streets and eating out of dumpsters? This is in the US. And there are people who are figuring out that maybe some of those third world countries of the 1970s and 1980s aren't quite as primitive as they've been told.


Does living overseas count? 
I lived for a few years in Germany and moved back stateside in 2011. If I had my way I would still be in Germany. It is a beautiful country with great people. Although I'm an American, I would gladly live there. Only thing I missed was family and my firearms collection.  I still have friends that live there and they still love it.


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## stormrider27

I plan on retiring at age 50 to a sailboat with my investments giving me about 25-30K a year. To start I'll still have my home in the US. If it goes as planned I will eventually sell that giving me another 30 k or so a year. If I had to choose a central American country to live in it would probably be Panama right now. It's stable great people and solid health care. I am trying to learn Spanish to make the transition easier, but most of the cruising islands speak English enough to get by.

-Storm


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## reneedarley

I moved to Sweden at the age of 56. As to the language, I have advantages as I speak Danish so learning Swedish hasn't been too difficult. In two years I will be retired with a good pension and would not consider moving home to England.
Here I have a life without stress, a great climate and a very high standard of living.
Most of the people in my area are in their 70's to 90's and still keep active so I think I have a few years left


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## Cabanaboy1313

stormrider27 said:


> I plan on retiring at age 50 to a sailboat with my investments giving me about 25-30K a year. To start I'll still have my home in the US. If it goes as planned I will eventually sell that giving me another 30 k or so a year. If I had to choose a central American country to live in it would probably be Panama right now. It's stable great people and solid health care. I am trying to learn Spanish to make the transition easier, but most of the cruising islands speak English enough to get by.
> 
> -Storm


Sounds like my plan. I will retire in 8 years (58). Sell my first house and use the proceeds to purchase a sailboat. We plan on keeping the homestead (which is paid off). I will have 33-36K a year, my Gal will have a lot less. 
We would however consider moving to Belize, Ireland and New Zealand.


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## pancho

I retired comfortably right here and it doesn't take that much. I could give you part of the $25,000 back and still be happy.


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## bigjon

great thread-lottsa think-even me! everythings payed for-just have monthly bills.do'nt know if I could leave permanently(the usa) maybe a little warmer climate pa-Virginia for cheaper utility bills.don't trust 3rd world politics----- don't trust ours either-lol.but here we have whats left of our system.visit-panama-costa rica-mexico-yes.stay-no-i'm home.


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## ET1 SS

bigjon said:


> ... maybe a little warmer climate pa-Virginia for cheaper utility bills.


I am not sure that a warmer climate means lower utility costs.


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## unregistered353870

I would if I needed to, but fortunately I can live lots of places in America for that much. I am considering a winter place somewhere warm, though... I'm just getting too old for cold. And I can't afford a second house in Florida, nor would I want to live there with all the other old folks, so I'm looking. I just saw a listing for a $200,000 house in Ecuador...not my taste, but what struck me was the property taxes...$30 per year. Some of the difference is probably offset by other taxes, but wow.


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## Vahomesteaders

I was surfing the real estate market around PA. Puxatawney area as a matter of fact since it's groundhog day. Man you can buy a very nice house on over an acre of land for 20k. It's a nice area and anybody could live off 25k a year their. Too small of land for us but for many an acre or two is a nice homestead.


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## TxGypsy

I'm currently in Mexico and frankly I am trying to come up with reasons why I would want to go back to the US!


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## unregistered353870

TxMex said:


> I'm currently in Mexico and frankly I am trying to come up with reasons why I would want to go back to the US!


I would say July is a reason, but if the place you come back to is TX, probably not much difference.


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## TxGypsy

jtbrandt said:


> I would say July is a reason, but if the place you come back to is TX, probably not much difference.


LOL!! Yep, Texas is no picnic in the summer!

Actually there are places up in the mountains of Mexico that are quite cool in the summer time. Mexico is a big place.


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## unregistered353870

Yes, Lake Chapala is one of those wonderful places in the mountains...I was only there in the winter, though. Probably very nice to escape to there from the coasts in the summer.


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## susieneddy

TxMex said:


> LOL!! Yep, Texas is no picnic in the summer!
> 
> Actually there are places up in the mountains of Mexico that are quite cool in the summer time. Mexico is a big place.


Ajijic on Lake Chapala. One thing I like is that the mountains are over looking the lake


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## TxGypsy

That is one of the places I want to check out. Since it is a big ****** area I am wondering how expensive it is.


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## susieneddy

From things I have read is that it isn't as expensive as San Miguel de Allende which is an expat destination.

Check out this site for cost of living http://www.lake-chapala.com/lake-chapala-cost-of-living.php

Our next trip will include this area along with the towns along the Pacific Ocean


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## TxGypsy

Hmmm, it is 6 hours from here via the toll road. I may see if I can sneak in a trip. It's not that far from Puerto Vallarta and I'm hoping to go check it out as well.

Keep in mind that the cost of living figures they list does not include rent. Rent is generally your biggest expense. I personally would not buy property in Mexico. 

A recent experience of a friend of mine is a perfect illustration of why not. She has been renting an apartment in the same location for years and has been very happy there. A couple of months ago someone put in a childrens party place a couple of doors down. There is no commercial zoning in Mexico, so you can pretty much put anything anywhere you want to. So now at various and unpredictable intervals there are very loud parties being held there. One of the big things they like to do is give the kids a microphone and let them sing. Mexican stereo systems are one of the marvels of the modern world. There is no such thing as too loud for them. Folks here also do not keep the same hours that we do in the US. 11 or 12 pm is not too late to be making lots of noise....neither is 5 am too early. 

I do not want to be locked into owning a house when something like that might move in next to me. I want to retain the flexibility to move if I decide to. 

So, depending on the area you decide you are comfortable with in any given town you can add between $200-800 a month to that total. I can find a decent Mexican style house just about anywhere for $300 or a bit less. However, you will need to supply all the appliances and the gas cylinder. For something furnished with appliances expect to pay at least $500 a month. My current furnished apartment with all bills paid, maid service, month to month short term is $533. I was told that if I wanted to commit to renting several months that they would lower it down to $420. Not bad for 2 blocks from the beach during the height of tourist season!


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## MoTightwad

We live on several thousand less then 25 so I know it can be done. No way would I go live in another country. They sound good and look pretty but try looking a bit deeper and see what you find. And if they are so great, why are all of them scrambling to live over here for "freedom". Thanks but no thanks. Have lived here over 80 year, so will die here. Good luck to those moving.


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## TxGypsy

The reason they are scrabbling is that they are making pesos and spending pesos. Whereas I am making dollars and spending pesos. That gives me an enormous advantage! Right now the exchange rate is 14.7 to 1. Now just imagine if every dollar you have or have coming in was multiplied by 14.7! That is the buying power that I have here.

You will often run across articles or books telling you about living on $500 US a month in Mexico. It can be done! You will be living like a poor to lower middle class Mexican, but still much much more comfortable than trying to live on that amount in the US.

Money is not the only facet of living in another country. It is interesting!! There is something new and different to see every day. The culture is different. There is quite a bit of challenge to living in another country. Some people like challenge, some do not.

The food!! OMG the food is fabulous! Service is great and inexpensive. I normally tip most waiters $1.33...which is a good tip. Heck you are saving a lot of money on tips alone.

Ooops....I keep forgetting. Dang it. If I keep telling the truth about Mexico we'll get even more people coming down here. 

So if you are a nice open minded person come on down. Otherwise....it is horrible and dangerous here! Believe everything you've heard on the news(LOL...listen to the news report for your nearest city and see how it compares)! The only reason I come here year after year driving by myself with never a hitch, ooops I meant scared to death the whole time....is that I have a serious death wish! I've even driven after dark, which THEY say you are never to do! See? Total death wish! Ooooh is that tamales?! Oh dang...that's right....be afraid of the food and the water! It will all kill you...which is why there are so few Mexicans...lol. :hysterical:

Gosh that just plumb wore me out. Think I'll go have some fresh fish for lunch, book a massage and go for a walk on the beach. Takes a lot of energy to keep up this kind of pace


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## susieneddy

TxMex,

we are like you on buying a place. To us there is no reason to at our age plus if we want to pack up and go we can after our lease is up. A home there ties you down just like in the US
A friend of ours will be moving from Belize to Progreso Mexico the first of March. Her house is a fully furnished 2 bedroom, 2 bath house and it has a pool. She walks out her back door to the ocean. Her monthly rent is less than 1000.00 USD a month. Can't get that in the US


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## susieneddy

TxMex, you will like these temps

http://www.accesslakechapala.com/guide/chapala-living/weather-in-lake-chapala-ajijic/


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## TxGypsy

Looks like a good summer place. I plan to be walking barefoot on the beach in the winter time...unless of course Mr. Right comes along and sweeps me off my feet


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## mekasmom

Shrek said:


> ...relocating to a Latin American nation would you?


In a second. The ONLY reason not to do it would be due to family being far away.


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## mnn2501

chuckhole said:


> I have been to Brazil, Singapore, Australia, Indonesia, S. Korea, Taipei, Tokyo, Amsterdam, Scotland, London, Moscow and Louisiana (a little Texas humor) :thumb:. The best trip has always been the trip home.


Louisanna!? you are brave!


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## TxGypsy

Peso is 15 to 1 :nanner::nanner::nanner::nanner:


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## Dutch 106

Hmm, Hi Guys. I live in SW Minnesota and live on just under 25K a year of course my house is paid for and I own a small commercial bldg. (a 1915 bank, neat old bldg.) I can do a couple of grand better a year if I can keep the apartment upstairs filled, not easy. I can specifically say being a landlord sucks. I bought the house for less than 15K because the owners let the old fuel oil boiler and plumbing freeze up. I had just won a small settlement from a former employer so had cash to buy the house put another 5K into bringing in Nat gas to the house, and added hydronic heating the micro boiler Is 97% efficient and weighs 67 pounds that I hung on a wall (the old one is 5 tons with asbestos, so I wrapped it with 3 layers of plastic sheet and built a plywood box around it and call it my paperweight) I'm slowly replacing the wiring to bring it up to modern code, if they tell you there is one circuit left of post and tube in the basement, don't walk in the first day pull the main circuit breaker and cut all the exposed post and tube out! Defiantly the way I do things but I'm an old bachelor who was a dirty handed Engineer, so can get away with it, works but ugly for right now and work on making it resalable! 
I spent time in the former Panama Canal Zone in the Army and traveled all over south and Central America, chasing Henry Cabot Lodge and Kissinger and other VIP"s. I worked with many Government types in many of the countries down there.
I spent enough time in Costa Rica that if I had 25K ahead in the 70's or 80"s I'd have retired there to expensive now, to many American's doing it now, a place to look into now would be Belize as it is the one Central American that uses a patois based on English. They claim to speak English and around the big city you can find people who do, however the first time you need to communicate with a peasant you will discover different. I have a minor in anthropology its not to hard to talk with poor folk in the third world. I did OK by taking the attitude that I didn't speak there language and any attempt I made was usually well received as It was plain I was trying to respect them.
I cannot recommend retiring to the third world the more I think about it, poor health care is a given. Living under laws in most of South America look up the Napoleonic code, If the police accuse you are quilty until proved innocent. (I live in the smallest town in Minnesota with a hospital, pop739) the streets are all 40 foot wide and there are many adult trees shading the streets, my Mom visited this last fall and kept talking about how quiet it was in town.
SO there are many places in rural America but they are more than and hour or more travel time to a bigger city with Ebay and the internet living in the toolies is much easier than it was.
SO hoped that helps someone but you poked a spot I had thought a lot on the last few years.
Good Luck.
Dutch


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## TxGypsy

Dutch 106 said:


> I cannot recommend retiring to the third world the more I think about it, poor health care is a given. Living under laws in most of South America look up the Napoleonic code, If the police accuse you are quilty until proved innocent. (I live in the smallest town in Minnesota with a hospital, pop739) the streets are all 40 foot wide and there are many adult trees shading the streets, my Mom visited this last fall and kept talking about how quiet it was in town.
> Dutch


I'm going to respectfully disagree quite strongly. Every country is different and sometimes things are much different from state to state within each country just as it is here.

I just got back from Mexico last week. I very thoroughly kicked the tires on the health care system while I was there. As usual I found the care to be excellent and very affordable. I receive excellent personal care in Mexico that is far superior to anything I have experienced in the US. The US might have a bit more modern medical equipment, but not by much. The care I receive from Doctors and nurses is so much better there is no comparison.

Generally speaking I can get away with more than a Mexican can in Mexico....on some things. On some things there is no tolerance. I will admit that there are some laws that are skewed in favor of Mexicans...just as some laws here are skewed to favor one group over another. The property laws are one example, which is why I will probably always rent and not buy there.


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## Shrek

TxMex,

During Fox' term as President of Mexico thousands of American retirees had their Baja condominiums seized because they were not Mexican nationals.


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## Bellyman

TxMex said:


> I'm going to respectfully disagree quite strongly. Every country is different and sometimes things are much different from state to state within each country just as it is here.
> 
> I just got back from Mexico last week. I very thoroughly kicked the tires on the health care system while I was there. As usual I found the care to be excellent and very affordable. I receive excellent personal care in Mexico that is far superior to anything I have experienced in the US. The US might have a bit more modern medical equipment, but not by much. The care I receive from Doctors and nurses is so much better there is no comparison.
> 
> Generally speaking I can get away with more than a Mexican can in Mexico....on some things. On some things there is no tolerance. I will admit that there are some laws that are skewed in favor of Mexicans...just as some laws here are skewed to favor one group over another. The property laws are one example, which is why I will probably always rent and not buy there.


Thank you for sharing that.

I have a friend that moved to Panama close to 10 years ago. He tells me that medical care is very available and just as modern as it is here in the US. He also mentioned that most of the doctors speak perfect English as most of them were trained right here in the US. Many people don't have insurance and get along fairly well with just the free clinics but for those who want health insurance, it's very available there, too. Last I talked to him, he said that the more expensive plans were under $100/mo. My last experience with Obummercare website suggested that I might be able to get a "modest" policy (doesn't cover much, huge deductibles) for $800+/mo. Yeah, right. Can't get that by cutting the cable bill. And can't get blood out of a turnip either. 

In case no one has noticed, the US is edging more and more towards becoming a third world country. After all, what good are $1k/mo meds when you can't afford even Obummercare? What good is the cutting edge of medicine if you can't afford it? It's not that I'm totally against any kind of national health care, I do believe there should be some kind of safety net. But this monstrosity we have now is almost worse than none at all, and for way more than is advertised, really is none at all. 

The whole ACA is nothing more than the government seeing huge dollars flowing into the insurance companies and wanting a piece of the action. It has nothing at all to do with the health and well being of Americans. It's disgusting.


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## Muleman

After spending the last 4 years working on and off in Brazil. NOT A CHANCE. I would never consider moving to a South American country. I have no use for those areas what so ever. I could live at home just fine for the 30k anyway.


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## Bellyman

Muleman said:


> After spending the last 4 years working on and off in Brazil. NOT A CHANCE. I would never consider moving to a South American country. I have no use for those areas what so ever. I could live at home just fine for the 30k anyway.


I don't think I'd have much interest in living in Brazil either. But there is a little more to South America than Brazil.

Have you visited any of the other South American countries? Two I would be much more interested in visiting would be perhaps Chile or Uruguay.


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## Muleman

I have not visited them. I have worked with people from Chile, Costa Rica and Columbia and I do understand there are some differences. The overall cultural difference is what I do not care for. I just have no interest in leaving to live in a S.A. country, the same as I would not consider living in a Asian country or a European country. Might would consider Alaska, if I were single, but I guess that is not really a foreign country is it? I also hate the tropical weather. Who wants year round 70-80 degree weather, absolutely miserable to me, but maybe that is just me.


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## Bellyman

That's fair enough, Muleman. Culture is important, and there are differences. 

I have another friend that went to live in Thailand two years ago. His wife is Thai so I kinda understand the influence there. He seems to like parts of it well enough but I think he'd rather be in the US. I'm not enamored with the cultures of the Orient, personally, so I haven't even looked in that direction. 

The reason I mentioned Uruguay is more because it was settled by a significant European population many years back and I suspect there are some similarities to parts of the US. 

Anyway, we have kids and grandkids, brothers and sisters in the US and I don't think we could easily move that far away from family. That's awfully hard to do when you like them.


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## Muleman

My work has allowed me to visit some places, but to be honest I never had a real desire to be a world traveler. I know many people do like to travel, I am just not one of them. If I were to win the lottery tomorrow, I would just be happy that it would allow me to stay home and never leave to go find work again, but I know many would use the money to travel and see things. I have seen all I want to see. I do not care to hear what foreign cultures have to share, my mules make for better conversation, and we agree on a lot of things.


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## Bellyman

Muleman said:


> My work has allowed me to visit some places, but to be honest I never had a real desire to be a world traveler. I know many people do like to travel, I am just not one of them. If I were to win the lottery tomorrow, I would just be happy that it would allow me to stay home and never leave to go find work again, but I know many would use the money to travel and see things. I have seen all I want to see. I do not care to hear what foreign cultures have to share, my mules make for better conversation, and we agree on a lot of things.


LOL!! Mules are interesting animals. One of our neighbors had about 8 of them on his farm when we lived in PA. 

Funny thing about traveling... I'm not much interested in traveling either, despite living fulltime in an RV. I'd be perfectly contented to NEVER move this blamed thing again. I'd love to sell it and move onto a homestead somewhere with the intention of being as self sufficient as possible. Winning the lottery would be great for getting the place set up. But honestly, I have little desire for just having a lot of money. I have no interest in fancy cars or even mansions. Give me a little cabin on a few hundred + acres in just the right spot, an old pickup truck, and enough equipment around the homestead to get stuff done. Sure, it would be nice to go visit some of the family from time to time and have enough money to maybe visit a decent restaurant or two. But much more than that would just pile up in an account somewhere or get given away. My Buddy Jeans and my Carhart tee shirts would still be the lion's share of my attire. I'd still grow my long beard. And there would always be time to "set a spell" of an evening and soak up some serenity.

Hey, might as well dream big. LOL!!


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## Muleman

Well, BM, a man with a beard can't be all bad. I tell you what, when I win the lottery I will buy me an extra chair to set on the porch and you can come sit a spell and visit. I might even let you talk to my mules as long as you promise not to believe half the stuff they tell you about me, always making up stories they are!


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## Bellyman

Muleman said:


> Well, BM, a man with a beard can't be all bad. I tell you what, when I win the lottery I will buy me an extra chair to set on the porch and you can come sit a spell and visit. I might even let you talk to my mules as long as you promise not to believe half the stuff they tell you about me, always making up stories they are!


LOL!! Sounds like a good deal to me, Muleman!!


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## TxGypsy

Shrek said:


> TxMex,
> 
> During Fox' term as President of Mexico thousands of American retirees had their Baja condominiums seized because they were not Mexican nationals.


I hadn't heard that, but it wouldn't surprise me. The property laws there do not favor non-Mexicans at all! That is one reason I said I wouldn't consider buying property in Mexico.

You do have to educate yourself on the laws and attitudes in a foreign country. For that matter a person doesn't dare be ignorant of the laws here in the US.


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## mnn2501

Bellyman said:


> Thank you for sharing that.
> 
> I have a friend that moved to Panama close to 10 years ago. He tells me that medical care is very available and just as modern as it is here in the US. He also mentioned that most of the doctors speak perfect English as most of them were trained right here in the US. Many people don't have insurance and get along fairly well with just the free clinics but for those who want health insurance, it's very available there, too. Last I talked to him, he said that the more expensive plans were under $100/mo.


My SiL has lived in Panama for about 3 years now and has been in the hospital twice - gotten excellent care and it's very very cheap too. Most people we dealt with when we visited them there spoke English fairly well.

The drivers in Panama City scare the bejebbers out of me though.


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## Dutch 106

Hey Guys,
I spent my time going all though South and Central America dealing with support folk for many of the governments. I personally would never live in a country that uses the Napoleonic code unless you are rich, they are rough places to be regular folk much less a peasant.
I'll bet you would sign a different song if you had run afoul of the cops there. The when I was stationed in the Canal Zone, the prison for over a year was an Island they dumped you on with minimal guards. The Armies official policy was there was no secret police in Panama, but I was already signed up to teach a IED class to 25 of them next week. 
I'm glad you didn't get thrown in a 3rd world shi--hole but because you had a good experience is only when things go well when they go to heck!
Nope not me.
I'm very careful visiting Canada another country that would under no situation allow me to be armed! I don't even visit states that won't allow me to be in charge of my own security! Fewer and fewer but Illinois is a pest hole because they are scared of there citizens.
SO if your wealthy enough to seem rich to the local culture, go ahead, now think about kidnapping in Mexico! Something you seem to be ignorant off.
Good luck.
Dutch


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## TxGypsy

Dutch 106 said:


> SO if your wealthy enough to seem rich to the local culture, go ahead, now think about kidnapping in Mexico! Something you seem to be ignorant off.
> Good luck.
> Dutch


Well aren't you offensive. Possibly due to the paranoia you may not have noticed this and I thought I'd point it out.


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## alleyyooper

One fella I used to work with retired to Poland on 22,000 A year and says he lives very good. Since it isn't a communist country any longer it is good to be back with family after almost 50 years.

Another one went to the Netherlands and loves it there also, lives near the sea and goes fishing a whole bunch.

KI would move to Europe before I would to south America. To unsettled in most of those country's.
May be New Zealand or Australia too.

 Al


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## Bellyman

I have heard that parts of Europe are quite nice as far as the landscape. I don't have much of any idea what the culture might be like in various places or the freedoms one might or might not have.

One thing I haven't really heard a lot of people talk about is rural living. Most want to talk about the wonderful things to see in the cities of London, Paris and a host of other "historic" places. I suppose that would be good for someone wanting to vacation but I have no interest in vacationing.

I am much more interested in having a modest home and a few acres to putter around on, planting my gardens and puttering with the home orchard and vineyard, pretty much keeping to myself with the exception of sharing my excess with those around me. 

I have no need for fancy restaurants, the theater, sporting events, concerts, fancy clothes or sports cars. No thanks, just not interested. 

Living a simple, rural life just isn't something people tend to talk about in their mega lists of "places to retire". If someone did talk about such, I'd be interested in reading about it, whether it's in North America, South America, Europe, Asia, Australia / New Zealand, most anywhere.


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## alleyyooper

I have a bee keeping friend in Finland. He has always lived there and talks about the hunting he does and things he grows in his garden. Pictures he has sent of the area look a lot like Michigan in spots.

 Al


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## gapeach

mnn2501 said:


> My SiL has lived in Panama for about 3 years now and has been in the hospital twice - gotten excellent care and it's very very cheap too. Most people we dealt with when we visited them there spoke English fairly well.
> 
> The drivers in Panama City scare the bejebbers out of me though.


mnn, we have very close friends who live in Panama. They live in Boquete, mtns of Panama and they do farm, 70's year round. They have lived there now for almost 10 years. If we were not so close to our family we would have joined them. They are from Ga. and SC also. They have excellent medical care there. They buy their insurance through the hospital and have very good doctors. Everything is cheap there but you cannot expect to find your favorite brands from the USA.


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## Raymond673

Yes we did it and we live in Panama. Our money goes way further here than there. We don't have draconian regulations to deal with, we are free to conduct business and create businesses, we do not have property taxes, we have great medical down here ($220 full coverage for the both of us) there are a lot of advantages where I read on this forum how many people are struggling due to the high taxes, mandated medical, and draconian regulations that prevent so many homesteaders from earning money from their homestead. 

Here is the road down to our homestead and own about 60+ acres. 










We are not rich by any means, but if we can do it, anyone can. 

OH... leaving friends and family? 

Our kids will most likely end up down here because we have more opportunity here than they have there. And as for friends, we have more here than we ever had in the US. 

Cheers


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## Elie May

I sure could- would! I'm headed south when my kids graduate. I have about 4-5 years! I love Mexico!


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## susieneddy

susieneddy said:


> we are considering retiring to Belize or Mexico but leaning more towards Mexico. We are going down in Feb for 16 days to check things out.
> We can retire on our SS and never touch our retirement money unless we want to travel


Update on last years trip. We enjoyed our time in Belize and Mexico during those 16 days. At the end of our trip we stayed in a town in Mexico and really enjoyed our time there versus the time in Belize. We decided that Mexico was the place for us.

It cost less to live in Mexico vs. Belize. The healthcare is much better in Mexico also.

We made plans last year to go back to Mexico for 3 months this time. We went back to the same town that we enjoyed last yr. We were surprised how many expats live in our area. We met folks from all over the US and Canada who have moved down there or are living there 6 months a year.

We ended up buying a house down there. We can live comfortably off one of our SS checks and put the other check in savings. Now we have to decide when we make the move permanently.


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## Elevenpoint

Depends...I can live a rural lifestyle and be retired in my early 50s.
I have no SS now but can work a week a month and live like a king.
Would never consider a foreign country.
I can fish for most of my food.
Recently had 14 weeks off and did not bother me.
Depends on your lifestyle.


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## ET1 SS

Vahomesteaders said:


> I was surfing the real estate market around PA. Puxatawney area as a matter of fact since it's groundhog day. Man you can buy a very nice house on over an acre of land for 20k. It's a nice area and anybody could live off 25k a year their. Too small of land for us but for many an acre or two is a nice homestead.


Some parts of PA are not bad at all.

In my area, we sometimes see a house on 20 acres that sells for $40k.

Obviously many people live here on less than $25K/year


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## TxHorseMom

DH and I don't plan on moving internationally permanently, but do plan on traveling 3-4 months a year. Our house will be paid for soon and we still have a good 15 years before we retire. We plan on renting a house in the DR during the winter months, and enjoy our family and friends the rest of the year.


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## arnie

I would not think about of living in latin America . I did retire in The US on a little more with insurance included 7 years ago . but I had planed ahead buying tillers , canners,truck,building pig ,chicken house,barn and paying the farm off ,ahead of time . So with low overhead its easy street . with a large family and community support group I dismissed the idea of leaveing the US ; I did the mexican vacation thing a couple times; and no .I guess I got it to good here


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## Elevenpoint

Bellyman said:


> I have heard that parts of Europe are quite nice as far as the landscape. I don't have much of any idea what the culture might be like in various places or the freedoms one might or might not have.
> 
> One thing I haven't really heard a lot of people talk about is rural living. Most want to talk about the wonderful things to see in the cities of London, Paris and a host of other "historic" places. I suppose that would be good for someone wanting to vacation but I have no interest in vacationing.
> 
> I am much more interested in having a modest home and a few acres to putter around on, planting my gardens and puttering with the home orchard and vineyard, pretty much keeping to myself with the exception of sharing my excess with those around me.
> 
> I have no need for fancy restaurants, the theater, sporting events, concerts, fancy clothes or sports cars. No thanks, just not interested.
> 
> Living a simple, rural life just isn't something people tend to talk about in their mega lists of "places to retire". If someone did talk about such, I'd be interested in reading about it, whether it's in North America, South America, Europe, Asia, Australia / New Zealand, most anywhere.


I did vacations when I was younger..travel..etc. No interest now. I believe I have been on vacation for about nine years. Very rural living and town only exists for supplies. There are no fancy restaurants, theater, concerts, sporting events and have zero interests in that. My idea of going out to eat is what I did last night...two trout from the river, fresh spinach, lettuce, onion, and dill for a salad. My farm is so private and peaceful I have very little desire to be elsewhere, I can hike here with my dogs, fish in the pond, take deer, turkey, and other small game right out the door. If I do have the need for adventure, I load up the truck, two pups in the front seat with me and go about two miles to a Forest road. Lock the hubs in and enter into a block of 331,000 acres of recreation paradise... springs, river loaded with trout and smallmouth..can canoe by myself all day..may not encounter another car or person in the national forest that day. Doubt very much I will travel more than a 50 mile radius in my life from here, its going to take awhile to explore all 331,000 acres.


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## Bellyman

Elevenpoint, I'm curious where you are located? It does sound wonderful from your description.


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## Elevenpoint

Bellyman said:


> Elevenpoint, I'm curious where you are located? It does sound wonderful from your description.


Ozarks near Elevenpoint River. Great area if you are interested in the lifestyle you describe.
Not much here and never will be, not close to a metro area so not many come here.
Weekend canoeing traffic but still not much... weekdays and October through April very few.


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## Elevenpoint

Bellyman said:


> Elevenpoint, I'm curious where you are located? It does sound wonderful from your description.


One other aspect I really like...winter. The snow, cold, freezing temperature kind.
Wood stove going, pot of deer chili, winter midday nap kind of winter after walking back three minutes from the treestand kind. No offense to anyone, but I could not stand living somewhere it was always warm. Winter is best for hiking also.


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