# Increased coyote population/damage



## agmantoo (May 23, 2003)

Up until this last week I knew we had a some coyotes in the area but felt that their impact was minimal. I have now changed my mind! I found this on Friday and I saw a single coyote.



I thought that possibly the calf died but when I touched it was still warm. 

On Saturday morning I found this



Due to severe drought here I have had to purchase silage, hay wasn't available. Feeding silage let my pastures recover over the last 2 months once it rained but i have been restricting the herd to a limited area and this calf was killed and mostly eaten in a single night. On Saturday afternoon I was positioning myself for a late visit of the coyotes returning. As I was setting up 4 killers returned and I only got off one good shot. My concern now is what will I do in the near future as I know they will return...they came back Saturday night and got the remaining carcass. 

Any suggestions?


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## cfuhrer (Jun 11, 2013)

My first thought is don't leave the carcasses for them to clean up. Anything you find, get it disposed of.

It may be the same kill but to them it's another meal from the same table and they'll keep coming back.


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## farmerDale (Jan 8, 2011)

Sorry bout the losses. Stinking coyotes. It is easier said than done to just head out and kill the coyotes. I am a pretty good hunter and trapper, and getting livestock predators is not an easy task once they get a taste of stock. We lost some lambs last winter, in spite of excellent fences, and nightly patrols and traps set out, but I only got one of the killers out of four or so. 

We got a guardian dog this spring, and she has helped big time just with her presence on our pastures. I try to keep the general coyote population down so that there is less chance of one of them becoming a stock stealer. Some folks always say that a new one will take its place, but the new one may not be a stock threat. Also, if you do your part to keep the population in check, these predators regain a healthy dose of respect for humans, something it seems they lost the last while, because fewer folks get after them and scare them and shoot at them and keep them on their toes. Of course with a lower population, there are simply fewer to "replace" the voids you create.

If you know how to trap, set a few around the perimeter of your property. If you are not a trapper, they are not the simplest animal to trap in the world, so maybe enlist a friend or neighbor if you know of one? All areas have differing rules and regulations with things like baits, snares, night hunting, poisons. Up here if one is protecting livestock, almost all regular hunting rules get thrown out the window.

Good luck, I know too well the sense of hopelessness in these situations. And this is coming from a guy who is a decent hunter and has trapped a lot of coyotes in my day. I t is not as simple as it sounds to just go out and get the offenders.


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## ycanchu2 (Oct 21, 2011)

you might try trapping them. There are guys around here who like to trap coyotes. They use some kind of trap, it doesn't hurt cattle if they accidentally get into it...they just tear the trap up they say.
I 've always thought also a good night vision scope on a rifle would be handy at night. Maybe make sure they are not dogs or coyote/dog mixed, I hear they are worse than a coyote.


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## agmantoo (May 23, 2003)

From my findings I understand we have coydogs from the southern part of the state and coywolves coming from the north. There are no restrictions on hunting coyotes but the population is increasing rapidly. The feral house cat population is no longer seen. I have only seen one skunk in a year. Wild rabbits are scarce. Once common, Quail have all but disappeared. Dogs are disappearing. I saw my first coyote pack, 6 coyotes, last deer season. We have lots of deer hunters but few people are having any deer success. I have not observed any dead deer on the roadside nor have I heard of any vehicle damage from road kills. The coyotes seen are seemingly larger than those earlier observed and the color is shifting to a more reddish tint. I do not know where the color change is originating. A current approach in dealing with the coyotes consists of contests where hunters are keeping score as to whom can kill the most coyotes in a set time period. There is an entry fee that goes to the winner.


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## gwithrow (Feb 5, 2005)

I am getting ready to move the cow/calves back into rotational as well....not happy to hear the coyotes at night out here...we still see rabbits, and our new Amish neighbors have cleared an area where they used to den up....however, there are still plenty of places for them to live....

what will discourage them from hanging around?...I don't think a guardian dog will work for us....and the donkeys don't seem to do as well with the rotational grazing plan....puts them too close to the cows ....

how old was that calf?....my momma cows would not be happy to share any of their babies with anything...they had a fit when a few buzzards were flying around....however I can not baby sit with the herd all day/night long....and the hunters around are also saying that these coyotes seem to be part wolf....great......

I think we will just have to be more proactive about pushing them on out of this area....traps may not work out here since there are too many domestic dogs...but maybe I can get my neighbors more interested in hunting the predators....those AMish boys might like an excuse to shoot something...


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## thestartupman (Jul 25, 2010)

I lost one earlier this year, but thought maybe it died naturally, and then was eaten by coyotes. The bad thing is that it was out of the hot wire area where the momma cow was. I do know that LGD's would do the trick, if you can find a way to keep them contained. I have LGD's up near the house with my smaller animals, but haven't started moving them around the property yet. This next spring I am planning on rotating them around behind the cattle with a group of sheep, and goats. I will be using electric netting. I think this might help, because of the dogs covering a larger portion of the property.


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## nate77 (Mar 20, 2013)

Wow, scary stuff. 

Tons of coyotes around my place, one more thing to worry about.


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## mzgarden (Mar 16, 2012)

Cattle farmer behind us has about 4-5 guys that hunt his land -- year round they hunt coyotes, and for their help, he doesn't charge them for hunting deer during the season. They've been with him about 15 years - nice symbiotic relationship.


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## mulemom (Feb 17, 2013)

So sorry for your loss Agmantoo. Local hunters tell me that coyotes and particularly coydogs around here (NE OH)have become so smart they're almost impossible to lure into range. If you don't have an issue with your dogs or someone else's on your property the most successful method around here seems to be turtle hooks. Bait them with meat and hang about four feet off the ground with hi strength fishing line. They jump for the meat and get hooked, can't get leverage to pull loose with just their back feet on the ground. Check daily just like leg traps. I haven't been able to bring myself to try it but a friend has caught nine in the last three months. Unlike calls he said they don't equate the hooks with danger and will keep coming back to the same place.


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## MO_cows (Aug 14, 2010)

If there are any foxhound people in your area, they will hunt your coyotes to work their dogs. 

I have known some people with polled, placid cows to add Longhorn or Corriente type cows to the herd. Seems like a horned cow who hasn't had all the instinct bred out of them will protect any calf, not just hers. Saw photos of a big coyote killed by a Corriente cow, she hooked him in the same spot as a hunter would shoot, the "heart-lung" shot. Don't know if it was luck or skill but that was the only hole he had in him. 

I couldn't do that "hook trap" either, just couldn't stomach it.


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## BeltieX (Sep 26, 2015)

I find it to be incredibly annoying when someone have to add a horned cow to their herd to just "protect" the herd. My Angus/Shorthorn cows are fiercely overprotective momma cows that will run off any predators but the wolves from their pasture. I knew few folks that lost their bucking bulls to the wolves and a folk near us, lost some longhorn calves to a pair of coyotes before we took these coyotes out.


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## agmantoo (May 23, 2003)

Thanks for the replies. I did hunt some this week over bait but saw nothing of coyotes.

I heard just today that an adjoining neighbor has now lost a new calf to the coyotes.


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## MO_cows (Aug 14, 2010)

BeltieX said:


> I find it to be incredibly annoying when someone have to add a horned cow to their herd to just "protect" the herd. My Angus/Shorthorn cows are fiercely overprotective momma cows that will run off any predators but the wolves from their pasture. I knew few folks that lost their bucking bulls to the wolves and a folk near us, lost some longhorn calves to a pair of coyotes before we took these coyotes out.


Why would a strategy that works for someone else in another region get your panties in such a wad? Your way works for you, their way works for them. Neither one is right or wrong. Get over yourself.


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## BeltieX (Sep 26, 2015)

I'm just saying that its unnecessary to have a horned cow to protecting the herd. Any good momma cows will do that.


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## Wintersong Farm (Aug 22, 2007)

Best answer for us has been lgd's. We keep two at all times. They fought off a bear last year, which ended up going down the road and attacking a neighbor's horse.


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## fishhead (Jul 19, 2006)

I would try to find someone who knows how to call them. Ask them to bring a couple of other shooters because you'll probably only get one shot in that spot for a while. It sounds like they are hungry and prey is scarce.

You could also try trapping them but it will take a few days to get everything ready unless you already have traps.. I've never found them that difficult to trap if you follow the basics ie. clean traps and equipment, solidly bedded traps, level ground, etc. You don't set the trap near the bait. It's illegal and doesn't work well anyway.

Snares work great if you have fences but I wouldn't snare where the cattle can reach it. You could drag the carcass behind a 4 wheeler into tall weeds or thick brush. Then drive a big circle of maybe 100' in diameter around the carcass. Hang your snares over the tire tracks of the circle. They should use the tire tracks as they circle the bait.

A barking dog (or timed recording) might cause them to stay away or go elsewhere.

Good luck.


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## Maura (Jun 6, 2004)

We have coyotes in the area. As long as the group stays together, they don&#8217;t bother them at all. I only lost one sheep to coyote (pretty sure it was coyote). She had an injury and stayed in the shelter while the others were out grazing. I believe that she was attacked and by the time the donkeys ran to her aid it was too late. She was not eaten, probably because of the donkeys.

It is possible that the calves died of natural causes and the coyotes took advantage. My neighbors with breeding cows do not have problems with coyotes, but they are kept together. Mother cows will defend their calves.


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## gundog10 (Dec 9, 2014)

I hunted and trapped coyotes for years. The best way I have found to kill coyotes is to set yourself up in position where you are concealed. Set up at night with a large Q-Beam spotlight with red lens and get a dying rabbet call. give a few squeals on the call and wait a few minutes and sweep the area with the q-beam and repeat. The red lens doesn't spook the coyotes like the clear lens does. I have killed alot of coyotes this way. What gun? I used a 220 swift and 25-06. A 22 rimfire will not get it done. A good scoped 223 (minimal) 22-250, 25-06, 243 all make great coyote killers. A second person running the spotlight works best but with a good rest one person can get er done.


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## medski (Jan 30, 2015)

I have had coyotes here in Michigan also. I trap so I have set traps around the perimeter outside the fence. Trapping coyotes is a lot like trapping fox first you catch all the possum,skunks and **** then you start to get coyote. It's a lot of extra work but I don't want to loose any calves next spring. I have one cow I have noticed her standing patrol at night watch for coyotes. If you can shoot one in the pack that will usually will keep them away. They don't forget easily. If one springs a trap and doesn't get caught it won't go near another set ever.


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## M88A1 (May 21, 2012)

we have a small pack of coyotes in the woods next to our pastures. We haven't lost any cows/pigs but might have lost a chicken (not 100% sure). Our cows have horns there is a reason they developed them as a form of self defense. if you fully protect your cows nothing wrong with dehorned/polled cattle. What one person does on the open range in Montana might not be the same a hobby farmer does on a 15 acre spread in Ohio.


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## oregon woodsmok (Dec 19, 2010)

BeltieX said:


> I'm just saying that its unnecessary to have a horned cow to protecting the herd. Any good momma cows will do that.


My next door neighbor lost several calves. Not that the cows wouldn't protect them, but the coyotes would come out while the cow was giving birth and kill the calf while it was still half in the birth canal. The cow can't protect what is directly behind her. She'd spin and a different coyote would attack from behind.


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## oregon woodsmok (Dec 19, 2010)

BeltieX said:


> I'm just saying that its unnecessary to have a horned cow to protecting the herd. Any good momma cows will do that.


My next door neighbor lost several calves. Not that the cows wouldn't protect them, but the coyotes would come out while the cow was giving birth and kill the calf while it was still half in the birth canal. The cow can't protect what is directly behind her. She'd spin and a different coyote would attack from behind.

She needs to be able to stand over teh calf to protect it.


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## BeltieX (Sep 26, 2015)

oregon woodsmok said:


> My next door neighbor lost several calves. Not that the cows wouldn't protect them, but the coyotes would come out while the cow was giving birth and kill the calf while it was still half in the birth canal. The cow can't protect what is directly behind her. She'd spin and a different coyote would attack from behind.


 I've noticed that these particular cows that got killed had birth problems or that they cannot birth a calf in short time. I know coyotes frequently attacks first timers that had birth trouble.


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## slingshot (Jun 25, 2014)

You need a trapper....

I trap all winter, in your case you need immediate help. Just start asking your friends and neighbors, there's a good trapper closer than you think. 

If you want to trap them great, but the learning curve is steep. Calling works pretty well if you have aggressive coyotes but the traps are working 24/7. 

If your going to try, get the biggest traps allowable by law in your state. Use simple dirt hole sets, they are productive and easy. Next and prolly most important is bed the traps solid, they cannot move if the edges get stepped on. 

Good luck


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## Ross (May 9, 2002)

Guard dogs were tried and failed here (not my farm but a couple of neighbors did) Some were even killed by the coyotes. Wasn't until a dedicated group of hunters tracked the coyotes down and shot them that things improved. Certainly the Dexters with their alertness and horns helped but the answer was to shoot the offending pack. I'm told indiscriminate hunting all coyotes is bad as they can't not be eliminated. Hmmmm extinction proof? Realistically there aren't enough hunters/trappers these days, so there's some truth to it. I read an article years ago about a farmer who fed the local pack butcher waste in a "bait pile" without shooting them. Essentially making a non-predatory pack to keep the worse ones away. Was working but as a long term thing it sure seems costly even with free food.


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## redgate (Sep 18, 2008)

You are correct in that coyotes and other predators can't be eliminated on a small scale like that. It may work temporarily, but more always move in. 

You say dogs were tried, but it sounds like something wasn't done correctly. First, it requires specific breeds, with the instinct to defend its herd to the death if need be. In the setting you are describing, you also must ensure there are enough dogs for the predator load. Ranchers in Canada commonly have 1-2 dogs per acre. Usually the ratio goes down as the acreage goes up. It is not uncommon for 100-1000 acres to have upwards of 10 dogs or more. Once they are on duty though, they are worth their weight in gold! The ranchers in Canada with heavy wolf loads also mix breeds often times, as some breeds are better at staying directly with the herd, while other prefer to patrol the perimeter. By mixing the breeds, all areas are covered, but all dogs work as a team. There may be a few attacks in the beginning, when the predators are used to finding an easy meal, but it doesn't take long for the predators to learn to find their meals elsewhere.


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## slingshot (Jun 25, 2014)

I agree.... 

Coyotes are no match for the right LGD especially a pair. 

Coyotes are not as big as most people think, even in northern climates they are rarely over 40lbs. Compared to a pair of great pyrenees that would each weigh 100+lbs there's not a pack of coyotes in existence that would stand a chance against a pair like that, they wouldn't even try. 

Wolves are a different story, not many if any can hold their own against wolves. Wolves are huge vicious killers they can and regularly hunt, kill and eat dogs.


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## Ross (May 9, 2002)

Great pyranese and akbash. TheGPs were killed and its not for me to say if they were or were not trained correctly. Definetly not wolves here. Killing the predators seems the most cost effective method. 10 dogs would break my bank!! Can't think of anyone who uses any LGDs any more. We know who hunts and traps and put some time into it our selves. With some better coordination the local problem coyotes would be dispatched faster.


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## BeltieX (Sep 26, 2015)

I wouldn't underestimate the coyote packs against a LGD. They can give a lone wolf a extremely hard time on many occasions and not uncommon for a coyote baiting the large dog to follow the first coyote into an ambush. Slingshot is also wrong on coyote weight, they get up to 55lbs while 40-45lbs are common here. I know a sheep farmer lost his great Pyrenees to a pair of super aggressive coyotes that had a den in the sheep pasture.

Canadian wolf on other hand, will just find LGDs as a bonus snack.


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## slingshot (Jun 25, 2014)

BeltieX said:


> I wouldn't underestimate the coyote packs against a LGD. They can give a lone wolf a extremely hard time on many occasions and not uncommon for a coyote baiting the large dog to follow the first coyote into an ambush. Slingshot is also wrong on coyote weight, they get up to 55lbs while 40-45lbs are common here. I know a sheep farmer lost his great Pyrenees to a pair of super aggressive coyotes that had a den in the sheep pasture.



I was speaking in general terms....

I also said a pair of dogs, anyway....

Coyotes are not wolves, even at 55 lbs aren't much of a match for a 100lb dog that's worth anything.


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## BeltieX (Sep 26, 2015)

A 100lbs dog could handle a lone coyote but not a coyote pack. I'm just saying don't underestimate coyotes. They didn't call them wily wolves for nothing.


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## topside1 (Sep 23, 2005)

Beep, Beep......


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## Wintersong Farm (Aug 22, 2007)

I have some LGD pups that will be available mid-March in central Wisconsin. We are located right between two wolf pack territories, and my dogs keep us in business. Pm if interested.


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