# critique colt?



## Rattery (Jun 27, 2013)

This is a 5 month old Clydesdale/friesian colt I'm considering purchasing, was wondering if I could get some input on him. I'm torn between him and a Canadian filly.

Good Sporthorse stud colt prospect? Only things that concern me are his short neck, and he looks base narrow in the front.


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## Grumpy old man (Aug 6, 2013)

Looks like the Clydesdale sure showed up in him .


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## Lisa in WA (Oct 11, 2004)

That's a pretty heavy cross for a sporthorse.


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## wr (Aug 10, 2003)

Are you planning on simply buying him to breed or are you intending to use him as a sport horse and proving his abilities?


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## Rattery (Jun 27, 2013)

I fully intend to show him if he stands up conformation wise to remaining a stallion. If he needs to be gelded he'd still compete in the odd show but mostly trail ridden.


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## SFM in KY (May 11, 2002)

As a long-time warmblood/sporthorse breeder I would be a bit wary of the cross as an outcross for sporthorse prospects and also I see a couple of things I suspect would limit him personally.

First, the Clydesdale seems to be prominent in the cross. His neck is very short and in addition, he appears to be very straight in the shoulder, which will limit the length of stride. You are likely to have the flashy knee action you see in the Clydesdale, without the free shoulder that sporthorse type Friesians have which allows for more length of stride. He also appears to be very 'upheaded' and slightly ewe necked, which would make it more difficult for him to get in the correct frame to muscle the top of his neck and topline, arch the neck and get on the bit correctly.

I personally would not worry about the base narrow at his age, but looking at the rear, I also see a "draft" rear end, slightly in at the hock, which again can limit the reach and impulsion from the rear.

I don't know anything about the market in your area ... I do know that the draft/TB or QH crosses are popular in heavy snow country in Idaho/MT/ND as ranch horses ... and the draft/TB crosses (usually Percheron/TB) are still quite popular on the east coast as field hunters, but the sporthorse market I'm familiar with (dressage/eventing/jumpers) tend to focus more on the warmblood crosses.

I think if you are looking for a stallion prospect that is bigger/more substantial that the average warmblood, I would look at Friesian/warmblood or possibly warmblood/draft crosses. Driving people like the flashy knee/hock movement and generally don't need so much length of stride ... your sporthorse people are probably going to want a lot more length of stride than this colt will have.

A colt I bred, sired by my Oldenburg stallion out of a TB/Percheron mare proved to be a very successful cross, more substantial than his warmblood sire, more athletic than his draft-x dam. He sired exceptional foals out of TB mares and has been a successful dressage horse himself. 

This photo was taken when he was a 3 year old and shows his length of stride, though he didn't mature completely until he was a 5 or 6 year old. He also has a shorter neck than I consider ideal, but he was carried well, naturally arched, with the break at the poll and you can see the long, sloping shoulder that allows for the long stride you want in a sporthorse.


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## Rattery (Jun 27, 2013)

I can definitely see that now 

Here's a video of him.

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-GAKXdg-JY4&feature=youtube_gdata_player[/ame]

He definitely doesn't have the Friesian movement I've seen in the Georgian Grande half Friesians. He has the same, somewhat flashy, trot as my Canadian mare. I've been looking at warmbloods but had two sold out from under me within a few days so stopped dealing with the people who own them!!

I guess I'll just stick with my Canadians....they're better put together and a size I don't need a mounting block for LOL


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## SFM in KY (May 11, 2002)

Looking at the video, I do like him better than just going from the still photos. His neck/shoulder is better than it looked in the stills and he definitely carries it better. He doesn't have great length of stride, but that is also better than I would have expected as well.

Don't know if he's really what you would want for a breeding stallion, but have to say that he's substantially better in the video than in the stills.


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## malinda (May 12, 2002)

Am I missing something in the video? I only saw about a minute of him trotting - no walk or canter at all.

What kind of sport is he bred for? What have his parents done? Would he be suitable for upper level Dressage? Probably not. Eventing? Probably not. Jumping? Most likely no. Show Hunters. No. Field Hunter? Maybe, but stallion prospect?? Not likely. He's going to be very, very drafty. His parents' breeds are bred to drive/pull, they aren't particularly suited for upper levels of sport.

I've liked the few Canadian Warmbloods that I've seen, they seem to have stricter standards of breed/sporthorse type than American Warmbloods.


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## SFM in KY (May 11, 2002)

malinda said:


> Am I missing something in the video? I only saw about a minute of him trotting - no walk or canter at all.


I was looking at the video frame by frame and looking only for the length of stride at the trot. The length of stride was one of the major things I questioned, so was looking at that specific thing.


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## malinda (May 12, 2002)

I meant that as in: why don't they show any of his walk or canter? The trot can be improved with training, the walk and canter is usually what you've got.


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## SFM in KY (May 11, 2002)

malinda said:


> I meant that as in: why don't they show any of his walk or canter? The trot can be improved with training, the walk and canter is usually what you've got.


A lot of people (most people?) just do not know what they need to show on a video. They put a horse in an arena, have someone chase it around while they videotape and whatever they get is what they show.

Definitely not the best way of doing things but if you don't have the knowledge you need to get the animal to produce what should be shown and/or don't have the help you need to get it done, what you see is what you get.


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## Oakshire_Farm (Dec 4, 2008)

Is that colt in Manatoba? The barn my daughter takes lessons at just gpt a new boarded in, he is a PerchxFreisan (why?) he is 2 yrs old. And a MONSTER! he is 17hh at 2. He is a good looking horse, but not really going to good at anything? He will be ok, at just about anything, but I cannot see him excelling at anything.


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## Rattery (Jun 27, 2013)

I've taken a pass on him since he is too drafty, he's in Saskatchewan.

I'll be getting a Canadian filly instead.


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## Bret4207 (May 31, 2008)

HAR! I'm sitting here thinking he wasn't drafty enough for me! I like that little Canadiene myself. I guess it's the farmer in me!


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## Grumpy old man (Aug 6, 2013)

I'd buy him and a harness the same day ,But I guess that's just the farmer in me !


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## Lisa in WA (Oct 11, 2004)

Grumpy old man said:


> I'd buy him and a harness the same day ,But I guess that's just the farmer in me !



If you were looking for a sport horse, that would be silly.:happy2:


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## Bret4207 (May 31, 2008)

You take a team of green drafters hitched for the first time to a manure spreader across a field covered in frozen cow pies and I promise you, you'll have all the SPORT you can stand, including the possibility of a few jumps!!!!:hysterical:


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## Molly Mckee (Jul 8, 2006)

Can you paste pictures of the filly?


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## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

Bret4207 said:


> You take a team of green drafters hitched for the first time to a manure spreader across a field covered in frozen cow pies and I promise you, you'll have all the SPORT you can stand, including the possibility of a few jumps!!!!:hysterical:


Sounds like the perfect set up for a horrific wreck to me.


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## Grumpy old man (Aug 6, 2013)

Irish Pixie said:


> Sounds like the perfect set up for a horrific wreck to me.


Sounds like a new use for sport horses to me :bouncy:ound:


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## SFM in KY (May 11, 2002)

One of the funniest things I remember seeing as a child was when my father decided that since the horse he was trying to break to saddle wouldn't stop bucking, he would break her to drive first. My grandfather said it wouldn't work (but he went along for the ride anyway).

It was early spring with some snow still on the ground and they got the wagon out in the middle of the alfalfa field. Dad got the harness on the mare, my grandfather harnessed the most reliable of the work team, hitched her to one side of the wagon, they got the unbroke horse hooked, my grandfather got in the wagon and then Dad jumped in.



Irish Pixie said:


> Sounds like the perfect set up for a horrific wreck to me.


They made a half circuit of the alfalfa field and the last thing I remember seeing was my grandfather, still sitting on the wagon seat, with his arms folded, the draft mare standing about 20 feet away from the wagon, with the neck yoke and part of the wagon tongue still attached, looking like "what happened here?" ... and my Dad another 50 feet or so further on, watching the still unbroke horse halfway down the field, with broken bits of harness scattered along the tracks, still bucking and kicking.


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## Grumpy old man (Aug 6, 2013)

Another day on the farm .


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## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

Grumpy old man said:


> Sounds like a new use for sport horses to me :bouncy:ound:



I do believe the teams in chuck wagon races are well trained, in fact, very well trained.


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## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

Grumpy old man said:


> Another day on the farm .


If horrific wrecks are "another day on the farm" you aren't doing it correctly.


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## Grumpy old man (Aug 6, 2013)

Irish Pixie said:


> If horrific wrecks are "another day on the farm" you aren't doing it correctly.


I'm still selling horses so I'm doing something correctly !


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## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

Grumpy old man said:


> I'm still selling horses so I'm doing something correctly !


Cheap horses usually do sell.  But what does that have to do with horrific wrecks being commonplace on your farm?


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## 1sttimemom (Mar 1, 2005)

"I've been looking at warmbloods but had two sold out from under me within a few days so stopped dealing with the people who own them!!"

Sadly, in this horse economy if there isn't a deposit in hand most folks simply can't hold an animal while someone is looking. I don't know the particulars of the situation, but will say that I have had someone upset that I sold one "out from under them" in the past. One case in particular I had a SUPER fancy palomino morgan filly for sale. That market at that time was pretty hot and I was asking $4500/firm for her as a weanling. A lady called and got info, video, etc. She offered $3500 which I turned down. She said she think on it & would let me know in a few days. In the mean time another lady contacted me and got info/video. Called me back right away with full price offer and overnighted large deposit to hold for 1 month until she could arrange shipping and final payment. Of course I took the sale. The other lady called back the very next day to "make another offer". I told her filly was sold and she was miffed, wanted to know price to see if she could top it. I told her it was full price but really didn't matter as I had a contract and $$ in hand to hold her. I would not go back on the signed contract. 

As I said, I am not sure in your case what the particulars were or if they offered to hold the animals while you shopped around. But generally speaking, most horse sellers will never consider an animal "on hold" without a contract/deposit in hand. Buyers should not really be upset with someone who takes a solid sale. The horse was not really sold "out from under you" if you had no actual investment in it.


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## Grumpy old man (Aug 6, 2013)

Irish Pixie said:


> Cheap horses usually do sell.  But what does that have to do with horrific wrecks being commonplace on your farm?


Sorry , no time for chit chat this morning I have horses to ride , Have a great day !:hysterical:


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## Lisa in WA (Oct 11, 2004)

Grumpy old man said:


> Sounds like a new use for sport horses to me :bouncy:ound:


Sounds like some people don't know what a sport horse is.


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## SFM in KY (May 11, 2002)

Grumpy old man said:


> Another day on the farm .


Pretty much. Had a few of those kinds of days myself.

My grandfather quit school when he was 11 years old to go to work full time as a cowboy. Started out on trail herds going from MO up into WY and MT and 'cowboyed' all his life. The last horse he trained he gave to me when he retired from the ranch and I rode her until I was well into my teens. Some of the tales he told about wrecks he'd been in were tales he told to keep me out of trouble. However, in the case of his stories about roping deer actually got me into quite a lot of trouble and I only heard about his teaching another horse to rear on cue from my grandmother, who was in the sleigh the horse put his front feet into when he came down.


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## Rattery (Jun 27, 2013)

Well the last warmblood I went to see personally I said I would take and pay full price if my hubby agreed, which he did the next morning. While I was looking at her she had said that she got a lower offer just before I came out but since I had been emailing her back and forth for longer I had first choice. The next morning I emailed her, said I'd take her and she wanted a $200 deposit. I emailed her back and said I would send it that evening or the next day when I was in a stable Wi-Fi area and could send a bank transfer. The next morning when I emailed to confirm info to send money to she informed me that she sold her to the other person because "they made the first offer", telling me the complete opposite of what she said to my face. Understandably I was P.O'd when she tried to tell me she had another horse(green broke QH vs basic trained dressage/jumping WB) I could buy.

This is the yearling I'm excited about. She'll make a pretty perfect matched team for my other mare posted above!


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## SFM in KY (May 11, 2002)

Sounds as if the warmblood breeder you were trying to work with didn't really have a good idea of what she was doing. My 'rule' has always been the first person who puts down a deposit and I have a SIGNED CONTRACT with has the first chance at the horse and the contract always spells out the fact that it is a non-refundable deposit and that there is a time limit as to when the balance is paid and the horse picked up. 

Sorry it didn't work for you ... but the black mare looks like she is very nice and would be a better choice for you ...


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## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

I kinda sorta see the seller's point, Rattery at least in the US, due to the economy and slaughter ban, sales of all but the cheaper horses have dropped considerably. I'm sorry you were caught up in it tho. 

I like the yearling.


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## Molly Mckee (Jul 8, 2006)

Pretty girl!


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## 1sttimemom (Mar 1, 2005)

I like this yearling MUCH better. Of course, I am a "morgan" person and those Canadians are thought to share some blood and sure do look similar to sold of the older morgan bloodlines. 

Sorry you had a bad experience with the warmblood breeder. Sounds like they just needed money in hand or thought the other buyer was more suited to that horse. Things happen for a reason and I'm sure you will find a better horse for you!


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## wr (Aug 10, 2003)

Irish Pixie said:


> I do believe the teams in chuck wagon races are well trained, in fact, very well trained.


Chuckwagon horses are TB's and they are very well trained and as a side note, Calgary just change the rules this year to try and reduce the risk of big accidents. Aside from huge penalties for interference, they drastically reduced the number of outriders for each wagon to make the track a lot less congested.


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## Bret4207 (May 31, 2008)

Irish Pixie said:


> Sounds like the perfect set up for a horrific wreck to me.


Where's you sense of humor? I was trying to lay out a set up for a whole lot of "sport"! Do I need to add multiple disclaimers explaining it's a joke? I thought the smilies I used sort if covered that.


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## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

Bret4207 said:


> Where's you sense of humor? I was trying to lay out a set up for a whole lot of "sport"! Do I need to add multiple disclaimers explaining it's a joke? I thought the smilies I used sort if covered that.


I have a wonderful sense of humor, especially if something is funny.  Perhaps you could use the universal j/k (just kidding) or something of that nature?

As an older horsewoman I have most definitely known people that would do what you described in real life- most definitely not funny.


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## Grumpy old man (Aug 6, 2013)

Bret4207 said:


> Where's you sense of humor? I was trying to lay out a set up for a whole lot of "sport"! Do I need to add multiple disclaimers explaining it's a joke? I thought the smilies I used sort if covered that.


HAHAHA J/k! :shrug:LOL ! :hobbyhors


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## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

Grumpy old man said:


> HAHAHA J/k! :shrug:LOL ! :hobbyhors


Are you trolling or baiting this time?


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## 1sttimemom (Mar 1, 2005)

Sometimes I dislike reading here due to the hostility. Sad...


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## Bret4207 (May 31, 2008)

Irish Pixie said:


> I have a wonderful sense of humor, especially if something is funny.  Perhaps you could use the universal j/k (just kidding) or something of that nature?
> 
> As an older horsewoman I have most definitely known people that would do what you described in real life- most definitely not funny.



Never saw the J/K thing before, but then I'm still stuck at about 1976 anyway. 

I gots lotsa scars from various "sport" I've engaged in, I getcha. Just trying to add a little horse farmer humor. Guess I missed the mark.


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## Bret4207 (May 31, 2008)

Grumpy old man said:


> HAHAHA J/k! :shrug:LOL ! :hobbyhors


Be kind my friend, some folks don't get barnyard humor!:nanner:


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## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

Bret4207 said:


> Be kind my friend, some folks don't get barnyard humor!:nanner:


Baiting or trolling?


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## Grumpy old man (Aug 6, 2013)

Barnyard humor ! just trying to put a smile on someones face , discussing ones hobby should be fun ! too many things in life are taken out of context and I thought using smiles are to help "lighten " the topic :happy:


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## Bret4207 (May 31, 2008)

That's the problem with the internet forums, you can't insert inflection of voice or body language into a post. People get offended easily. Been there, done that, got the tee shirt.


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