# Grain Free Milkgoats?



## mtn.mama (Apr 20, 2007)

Need your ideas... my daughter is allergic to gluten (wheat, barley, rye), rice, corn and oats. I want to take my milking doe off these foods. Is this possible? My goats 100% truly free range with limitless territory and are supplemented with hay in the winter. But what will I give my doe on the milk stand if not regular grain?


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## Didgery (Apr 14, 2008)

Black oil sunflower seeds would be a good addition. Alfalfa pellets, BOSS, flax??


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## Alice In TX/MO (May 10, 2002)

Alfalfa pellets.


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## mtn.mama (Apr 20, 2007)

What is BOSS? Oh, black oil sunflower seeds? Okay, that sounds like a good start. Her normal grain is BOSS, alfalfa pellets, barley, oat, corn, kelp, dry molasses. I like the flax idea.


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## Caprice Acres (Mar 6, 2005)

Why do you have to take your dairy doe off of grain when your daughter is allergic? 

The fat in milk is Lactose, not gluten... ?

I'm confused.


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## mtn.mama (Apr 20, 2007)

Actually, the fat in milk is just that... fat. The milk sugar is lactose, which we can deal with when the milk is raw- because the enzymes stay intact. The milk protein is called casein. Gluten is a protein component. The proteins of the grains pass into the milk via the bloodstream. So sensitive people can and do react to the animals feed. But my reasoning is two fold... keeping grain around at all puts my child further at risk. KWIM?


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## deafgoatlady (Sep 5, 2007)

Well. If the goat eats any kind of gluten and it will go thru the milk and it is not lactose. U know. Gluten is from like wheats and corn and oats. It really does hard on some people's.


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## Alice In TX/MO (May 10, 2002)

I think it's a great idea. Are you going to taper down on the grains and keep records as to what it does to milk production? Your experiment will help all of us learn if what we are feeding our goats is truly necessary, IF we are just needing a household milk supply. 

It may prove that we don't have to feed like a big dairy operation.

Keep us informed, please.


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## deafgoatlady (Sep 5, 2007)

I would use is boss, alfalfa pellets, flax seed. What about beet pulps????


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## mtn.mama (Apr 20, 2007)

Rose said:


> I think it's a great idea. Are you going to taper down on the grains and keep records as to what it does to milk production? Your experiment will help all of us learn if what we are feeding our goats is truly necessary, IF we are just needing a household milk supply.
> 
> It may prove that we don't have to feed like a big dairy operation.
> 
> Keep us informed, please.


Yeah, I always keep good milk records. I'll keep some feed notes along the way and let you know how it works out...


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## Caprice Acres (Mar 6, 2005)

Ahhh I get it.

Should've know lactose was a sugar. Gee whiz. LOL. Forgive a biology student - skillfully practicing forgetting information, temporarily, during a lazy summer.


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## DQ (Aug 4, 2006)

mine are on no grain! 4lbs of alfalfa pellets on the stand and browse/graze the rest of the day. I feel much better about their feed now than I did when I was feeding grain both for the goats health and mine. I have only seen a small drop in production two went from about 2.5 lbs every morning to around 2 and my lamancha from around 5lbs to around 4lbs. their condition is still excellent if not better imo. I would like to feed boss but I don't because of cost. boss is high fiber and protein and fat and should be a suitable, if not superior, replacement for grain. if I feel the need due to condition of the doe to add something, that will be it. go for it!


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## mtn.mama (Apr 20, 2007)

Yay! Thanks for that testimony. Now I know it can be done... I just have to make it happen. I've bought the last bag of goat grain. Woohoo!!!!!

I'm going to try a mix of somethings anyway...


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## Vicki McGaugh TX Nubians (May 6, 2002)

It is exactly how I am going to run this micro dairy with the mini lamanchas. Although I am going to be feeding a cereal grain hay. Protein and calicum in the form of alfalfa pellets, minerals and fat and carbs from oat hay. Sure I dod not expect them to milk as much as they would have without grain on the milkstand, but being raised this way and being such good foragers, do think it is going to be a great alternative.

I wouldn't try this on a doe in the beginning of lactation or the end of pregnancy but slowly moving her to no grain and making sure she was bred with no grain so you don't have multiple kids to have metobolic problems later, would be key.

You would also have to know that it's not about starving her but being frugal and meeting all her needs in a different form. Relying on too short of grass and you will be spending money on wormer. A natural diet would consist of long stem grass seeds and browse, not mown short lawn. Vicki


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## mtn.mama (Apr 20, 2007)

Thanks- we have no grass here... its all browse. She'll have been milking four years straight on August 15th, and I plan to start adapting her grain ration immediately to phase it completely out. Wish us luck!


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## Ernie (Jul 22, 2007)

Keep in mind that 90% of the goats in the world _never even get a taste of grain_. 

Mine are mostly grainless, but when they're milking heavily it just boils the weight right off of them. I try and provide other sources of protein such as apple cores, banana peels, and then they get plenty of pasture to deal with. They're out eating grain, but it's not domesticated grains ... it's the seed tops off of hay and other plants.


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## mtn.mama (Apr 20, 2007)

Ernie said:


> Keep in mind that 90% of the goats in the world _never even get a taste of grain_.


Thanks- I didn't realize this...


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## Mrs. Jo (Jun 5, 2007)

but you also must realize that 90 % of the goats in the world don't milk worth a bean. And if you have a good milker then you must make sure to keep the calcium and phosphorus levels as they should or you will risk milk fever. If you look at Vicki's experiment she's still using a form of carbs, so most likely what she is doing will meet their needs. 

Sprouting is another alternative to cereal hays. When sprouted the grains begin to change and increase cla's and omega 3's in the meat and milk. Never tried this before but I'm ruminating about it.


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## Vicki McGaugh TX Nubians (May 6, 2002)

but I'm ruminating about it
......................

 Vicki


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## farm mom (Oct 10, 2006)

Vicki, 

Would you do this if they had no access to browse? Just on a dry lot? Oat hay is super cheap around here so a good alternative since grass hay is running $220 a ton.


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## hoofinitnorth (Oct 18, 2006)

Jo - can you share some sources for literature on sprouting grains and how it changes the nutritional value of the feed? I tried to find this last year for the poultry and ran out of time with other projects. I've been discussing it with a local oat farmer of late...


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## Vicki McGaugh TX Nubians (May 6, 2002)

Actually farmmom if I was going commercial again they would be dry lotted. Dealing with parasties is huge here and you don't have parasites on dry lots because they dont' eat with their heads down. The shear number of goats over several season will turn any underbrush into pasture if you have goats for any length of time congregated around the main barn for milking 10 months out of the year...the further out into the property you get the more browse is left, mine is the perfect mirror of this. When someone says they only have browse I know they have not had goats long 

I am going to enjoy this little experiment here, I know in a dariying situation where labor is money and you have to pay the feed bill and salary LaManchas were the way to go, I am think mini's will fit a more frugal point of view. Vicki


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## farm mom (Oct 10, 2006)

Thanks Vicki, perfect information that made me happy! I have a call into a local farmer that raises a pea/oat grass hay.


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## Mrs. Jo (Jun 5, 2007)

Well, it was an epiphany when I realized the root of the "ruminate." 

Sprouting grains? The only article I ever read on it was from dairygoatjornal. I don't know what year. One of local holistic vets just told me the other day that I should be sprouting grains to feed my stock. I'm looking hard just for a source of decent grains right now. I'll let you know if I find anything for sure.


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## minnikin1 (Feb 3, 2003)

Here are a couple of articles about the benefits of sprouted grain. They are not about goats, but... written for equines but has references to the benefits of sprouted grains:
One is obviously an ad, one is not: 
http://www.ag.ndsu.edu/pubs/ansci/livestoc/as647w.htm
http://www.foddersolutions.org/equine_nutr.htm


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## mtn.mama (Apr 20, 2007)

Thanks especially for the fodder solutions link!


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## macly (Nov 25, 2011)

Sorry to revive a very old thread, but I'm looking into a grain free ration for my Nubian who just freshened. Mtn Mama, how did things work out? Hoping you are still on here...Thanks!
Meredith


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## PrettyPaisley (May 18, 2007)

We don't do grain. I don't do beet pulp either for fear of GMO sugar beets. We just do alfalfa pellets and BOSS but I think I might add a dash of kelp this season, too. They don't seem to have an issue with standing still and munching on that mix.

That said, I have no clue what I am going to do when the GMO alfalfa hits.  I could just cry thinking about it.


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## macly (Nov 25, 2011)

Thank you so much for your response! I feel the exact same about the alfalfa, but that's a whole other conversation 
Do you mind if I ask about how much alfalfa and BOSS you think they are consuming? We're in a big transition with our girl right now. She's a new to us goat. We bought her when she was still (heavily) pregnant and brought her home after she kidded. She's still adjusting and my plan was to slowly wean her off the grain, but she doesn't seem to care for it right now. Unfortunately she's also not fond of my stemmy Timothy that my other goats clean up. She's been eating less than half of her previous grain ration, devouring all the alfalfa pellets I give her, and seemed more interested in the 2nd cutting grass hay I brought home tonight. So far she hasn't ventured out of the barn enough to browse, but I know that will come in time. Thanks for your info!


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## southerngurl (May 11, 2003)

Shannon, I hate to make you cry sooner, but the alfalfa can already be GMO. It was legal a few years ago, then outlawed. So there are stands of GMO alfalfa being harvested already. Yea, it makes me mad too. 

I am hoping to grow and store carrots for part of my goats' concentrate this year. You can just dig a hole and store them in straw, or even leave them in the ground. And you can grow a lot in a small area, and they are very healthy for them. Another thought is pumpkins which I grew some of last year and the goats LOVED them. Plus the seeds contain zinc and discourage parasites. They also have plenty of protein. 

For legumes, I'm getting lespedesa sericea started in my field this year, setting up rotational grazing and in the cool season, plant to have vetches and clovers with rye. With rotational grazing you can really improve the vigor of your forage and keep it growing well. I also got a rainbird sprinkler and a couple long hoses after last summer.

Another little idea I have.. imagine if you had a legume that goats adored, had a deep root system to pull up minerals from way down deep, was very vigorous and growthy and didn't need reseeding once established? Yea, kudzu. Don't come at me with pitchforks now! The problem with Kudzu is either you have enough to outgrow the speed your goats eat, or the goats kill it. But my idea is, take some cattle panels and fence a patch of it off in your goat field. As it tries to grow out it would be continually eaten by the goats, but they couldn't kill it. Keeping this far from trees it would be just about impossible for it to "escape" other than by seed, which I read it doesn't do much but flowers would give ample warning I'd think.


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## Natural Beauty Farm (Feb 17, 2003)

Vicki McGaugh TX Nubians said:


> Vicki


Darn, thought Vicki was back, then I looked at the post dates and realized this thread was reacted


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## CaliannG (Apr 29, 2005)

southerngurl, I SO WANT kudzu.

Trying to find seeds or plants, however, is a problem. ~sighs~


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## April (Nov 28, 2006)

I'm scared silly of kudzu. I know anything can be managed, but what if I get lazy (and I will). 

I'm also exploring a "cut and carry" option where I pick what browse the goats will eat, cut it and take it to them. Again, a little lack of motivation would ruin that whole plan. I could grow a LOT of forage in orchard and garden areas, though.


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## TroutRiver (Nov 26, 2010)

Another scary thing that I learned recently, most non-organic alfalfa pellets actually contain small amounts of corn and other grains, even though not listed directly on the ingredients. Floor sweepings and scraps from other grain mixes made in the processing plant are often added to alfalfa pellets.


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## smwon (Aug 16, 2006)

southerngurl said:


> I am hoping to grow and store carrots for part of my goats' concentrate this year. You can just dig a hole and store them in straw, or even leave them in the ground. And you can grow a lot in a small area, and they are very healthy for them. Another thought is pumpkins which I grew some of last year and the goats LOVED them. Plus the seeds contain zinc and discourage parasites. They also have plenty of protein.
> 
> Another little idea I have.. imagine if you had a legume that goats adored, had a deep root system to pull up minerals from way down deep, was very vigorous and growthy and didn't need reseeding once established? Yea, kudzu. Don't come at me with pitchforks now! The problem with Kudzu is either you have enough to outgrow the speed your goats eat, or the goats kill it. But my idea is, take some cattle panels and fence a patch of it off in your goat field. As it tries to grow out it would be continually eaten by the goats, but they couldn't kill it. Keeping this far from trees it would be just about impossible for it to "escape" other than by seed, which I read it doesn't do much but flowers would give ample warning I'd think.


Again this thread is being brought back to life. I hope it is ok!

I like the idea of feeding roots instead of grain. I have read recently about someone who feeds roots, BOSS, and flax instead of grain. She says her girls do very well on it and keeps up milk production.

I like the idea of using kudzu, especially in a fenced area in the middle of the paddock so they eat it as they grow. southerngurl, did you ever do this? What would be another good plant to grow like this?


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