# horned baldy blacks??



## james dilley (Mar 21, 2004)

I have noticed in the last few months that I Am seeing A high number of horned baldy blacks, as well as what looks to be Black and red Angus. I Am thinking and might be wrong, but , whats the odds they are recombing genetics from , over A number of cross breedings to the herfords??











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## oneokie (Aug 14, 2009)

Could be from using Horned Hereford bulls on black cows or black bulls on horned cows.


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## ErinP (Aug 23, 2007)

My thinking as well...
We've always had a percentage of our black baldies that need to be dehorned.


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## Brandon (May 1, 2009)

It shoudn't matter whether the Hereford was horned or not. The vast majority should still be polled (if the genetics were pure to start with). The problem with many black baldies nowadays are that Limousin, Simmental, and Gelbviehs have turned black (along with some other breeds and crossbreeds) and alot of continental breeds have horns, even if the bull used was polled. I have a neighbor now that has a black Simmental. Probably 98 people out of 100 would swear it was a black Angus if they saw it, and I only noticed it had Simmental traits from close observation. Not saying this is what is happening in your situation, but it is happening for quite a few people.


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## james dilley (Mar 21, 2004)

I was just stating that it was an odd thing to see. I saw them in Cali. Ariz And new mexico as well as west texas. So there is A likelyhood of Longhorn genes there too.


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## tyusclan (Jan 1, 2005)

I agree with Brandon. If they're horned black baldies they're Herefords crossed with something besides Angus. Angus are homozygous polled and can only throw polled calves no matter what they're crossed with.


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## ErinP (Aug 23, 2007)

If the line is _pure_ Angus. 
Which most commercial herds aren't.


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## randiliana (Feb 22, 2008)

As said, most likely what you are seeing are horned sired cattle off commercial angus type cows. Purebred angus are **** polled, so they should never pass on the horned gene.

As far as longhorn vs other horned breeds goes, the horned gene is the horned gene, doesn't really matter what breed it comes from it works the same way, and it is recessive which means that for an animal to BE horned it must carry 2 horn genes.


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## Gregg Alexander (Feb 18, 2007)

They are cross bred , they most likey came from hereford cows bred to black bull then those heifers were bred to hereford bull. The horn gene is there. Would have the poll gene but crossing more than 1 time with horn genes put the poll gene back in the closet. Every once in a while you would expect a poll calf but not many


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## ErinP (Aug 23, 2007)

randiliana said:


> As said, most likely what you are seeing are horned sired cattle off commercial angus type cows. Purebred angus are **** polled, so they should never pass on the horned gene.
> 
> As far as longhorn vs other horned breeds goes, the horned gene is the horned gene, doesn't really matter what breed it comes from it works the same way, and it is recessive which means that for an animal to BE horned it must carry 2 horn genes.



And this also means that being recessive, it can be _carried_ for several generations without actually showing up.


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## Ronney (Nov 26, 2004)

Interesting topic. As I understand it, your Black Baldies are usually a cross of Hereford and Angus? which should result in polled offspring.

Over here we have a very similar looking cattle which we call Black Whiteface (BWF) which are very much sought after. Their breeding is quite different though - they are the result of a Hereford bull over Freisian cows, the Hereford bull being used as a "clean up" bull on dairy farms. They have black bodies, white underbellies and udder, sometimes white socks and always the white Hereford face. They grow into a large-framed beefy animal and the cows tend to be huge milk producers but with the typical Hereford udder. Unless the bull was a polled Hereford these cattle are always horned.

I am wondering James if your not looking at a similar product? 

Cheers,
Ronnie


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