# Gas refrigerators?



## nu2solar

We are going off grid and using all gas appliances. Anyone have experince with Diamond gas refrigerator?

They are the only ones I can find that make a smaller stainless steel refrigerator. I wanted that b/c I am getting the 24" premier gas stove.

Lisa


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## texican

Link?


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## greg273

nu2solar said:


> We are going off grid and using all gas appliances. Anyone have experince with Diamond gas refrigerator?
> 
> They are the only ones I can find that make a smaller stainless steel refrigerator. I wanted that b/c I am getting the 24" premier gas stove.
> 
> Lisa



I briefly considered getting a propane frigde, but then decided I'd be money ahead by getting another solar panel and a small sized efficient regular fridge.


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## nu2solar

texica

The web site I was looking for the Diamond refrigerator is www.warehouseappliance.com

Thanks for any help


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## WisJim

We decided long ago that it was cheaper in the long run to get PVs and a SunFrost super efficient refrigerator than to pay for lp or propane for a gas refrigerator, and therefore replaced our Servel gas refrig back around 1985 or so, even though at the time PVs were much more expensive than they are today. The PVs and the Sunfrost are all still working fine.


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## texican

Agree with the others.... pv powered fridges probably are smarter in the long run... otherwise you're tied to propane deliveries. With solar, you control your own fate.

I went with propane, cause I have free natural gas. 

Absorption fridges are a lot slower to cool things down than regular fridges... forget about having ice and ice cream at the same time...

I don't know if dc powered super efficients have the same troubles or not...


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## Helena

Yes.. agree also. But remember the cost of LP gas isn't cheap either..now a days !!


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## WisJim

Our SunFrost keeps ice cream, frozen fruit, meat, ice cubes, etc., frozen fine. But we have enough pvs and wind power that we have 2 chest freezers too.


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## michiganfarmer

My cousin works for an electric comapny. He says that in the next couple years Michigans electric costs are going to triple. I use about 800 kwh per month, and pay around $70 pe rmonth. I suggested to my wife that if our electric bill gets over $200, we are going to turn our electric off.

I have talked to my mother about the ice boxes her family used before the 1960s. SHe said it only used a block of ice per week. 

I have thought about building one, building an ice house, and making ice outside all winter to use during the summer.


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## WisJim

There have been some good ideas and experiments with making the icehouse next to the living space, freezing ice in it, in place, and using that ice to cool food all summer, without having to move the ice. The old "New Shelter" magazine from Rodale press back in the 1970s or 80s had a series of articles about low energy use refrigeration, including that kind of ice house. I remember when my grandparents quit cutting ice and converted their ice house to a wood shed, which is also now gone. And my wife remembers the iceman delivering ice in town every couple of days. (And neither of us are 60 yet)


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## Charleen

I used to have a Servel gas fridge. It was from the 1940's. I don't know where it originated but my grandmother used it from approx 1969-1985, then I used it from 1985-93. Then Servel offered a $100 rebate to recall their fridges due to carbon monoxide problems. This was before I began homesteading and knew what a gem I had. I succumbed and got my $100 but I'm kicking myself now.

I recall that there was a socket for a light bulb inside, but we didn't insert one, so it was never plugged into an electrical outlet. We never and I mean NEVER had any issues with it in all those years. It was hooked to the natural gas line utility.


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## Helena

OK...if the newer refrigerators are suppose to only use $65 a year in electric where would the savings be in using a propane one ?? I have always wanteda LP fridge but hubby says they are way too small ?? But I do realize that the newer appliances use less electric and actually are suppose to save you money ?? Even the newer washer only use 10 gallons of water vs the 40 gallons on a top loader..even better than the old wringer washer I have..guess it is what you want and where you live..if you are off the grid ofcourse the LP would be better..but we use LP for hot water and cooking during the summer months and it isn't cheap either so how cheap is a LP fridge to use ????


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## SolarGary

Helena said:


> OK...if the newer refrigerators are suppose to only use $65 a year in electric where would the savings be in using a propane one ?? I have always wanteda LP fridge but hubby says they are way too small ?? But I do realize that the newer appliances use less electric and actually are suppose to save you money ?? Even the newer washer only use 10 gallons of water vs the 40 gallons on a top loader..even better than the old wringer washer I have..guess it is what you want and where you live..if you are off the grid ofcourse the LP would be better..but we use LP for hot water and cooking during the summer months and it isn't cheap either so how cheap is a LP fridge to use ????


Hi,
These guys:
http://www.lpappliances.com/crystalcold.html

show a Crystal Cold 15 cuft propane model that uses (they say) 0.29 gallons of propane per day.
Around here with $2.20 a gallon propane, that would cost 64 cents a day to run.

Our 1 year old energy star 18 cuft electric fridge is rated at 448 KWH/year, or 1.2 KWH a day -- around here with 10 cent a KWH that is 12 cents a day.

Seems like electric is the hands down winner to me?

If you are off grid, you would have to consider the extra expense of the PV panels to run it.

If I convert 0.29 gallons of propane energy into equivalent KWH, I get 7.8 KWH compared to 1.2KWH for our electric -- so it looks like the propane fridge is much more efficient?

Gary


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## Jim-mi

Helena . . . . "how cheap to use"
Part of that answer is for the folks who are trying not to use any electric.
With the big jump in propane price, I'll bet its now cheaper to run a electric fridge.

I'm glad I have my 12vdc chest fridge and my Sun Danzer 12\24vdc freezer . . . . .both can be powered by only a PV panel................................

Yes it cost more up front than a unit from the allmighty BIG BOX stores . .but with hi quality Danfoss compressors in both units I expect to get a long service life out of both.

Another question would be;
What is the cost of a new gas fridge . .?
compared to the cost of a quality unit like Sun Danzer . .?


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## katlupe

Jim-mi,

Is your chest fridge a SunDanzer also? If not, what is the brand name? Could you also tell me how many watts it uses?

The reason I am asking is that we have been using a propane fridge since 1999 while we build our system. Recently, we went to someone's home that had the SunDanzer chest refrigerator and freezer. I was so impressed with them! Now this is something I want to work for. It was easy to look inside and find what you were looking for. Plus they said they used only as much power as their laptop computer! And everything inside was very cold. This is with 3 teenagers at home who are in and out of the fridge many times. 

I would like to eliminate the propane if possible and just put that money into building my system. 

Thanks for any info!

Helena,

I have a older model Servel (67 years old) and recently bought a used Servel (15 years old), and both are small compared to the electric fridges. My older Servel though is much better made than the newer ones. 

katlupe


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## zant

Used a gas fridge for 7yrs,as Texican said,they cool down very slow...Don't come home with a wks worth of fridge stuff ....they also require maintenece(what doe'snt offgrid)..keep flue pipe clean,defrost monthly and check flame for proper color wkly.


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## artificer

Helena,

Propane used to be a hands down winner for HEATING over electric. Now with increasing gas prices, you have to crunch the numbers to be sure its still cheaper. If electric goes up like people are forecasting, then propane will probably still be cheaper for heating applications.

Compressor driven refrigeration (your standard AC, fridge/freezer) pumps more heat than the energy used. Combine that with cheap grid power, and you can't beat the traditional fridge/freezers. When you go off grid, however, the story changes. The propane fridge, on the other hand, is doing great if it can even approach even. (same amount of cooling as the amount of fuel you use)

Now that you are the power company when you go off grid, you have to choose what is the cheapest method of cooling, both short and long term. If you have to run a generator to power a freezer, and the generator needs to be on all the time, propane is going to be cheaper than electric. If your propane/NG is free like Texacan's, its a no brainer, and you get the natural gas fridge.

If you want the lowest cost long and short term, your best bet would probably get a Sundanzer chest freezer, add a thermostat, and use it as a refrigerator. As little as 100whr/day. Takes a small pannel/battery setup.

I have to pick up some sort of freezer/refrigerator in the next month or so, since we're spending more time at our off-grid property, and the natural Wisconsin freezer has been shut off for the season. I'm leaning towards the Sundanzer units, adding some solar pannels, maybe some wind power as wel. Short term power generation for me is the generator charging the battery bank.

Michael


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## WisJim

Another reason to go with electric instead of propane is the fumes from the burner are in you kitchen with a gas refrigerator. And, as I mentioned earlier, even back in the 1980s when pv panels were expensive and LP was cheap, we figured that a $2000 sunfrost 12 volt refrigerator (the only choice back then in a DC efficient refrigerator unless we built our own) plus the cost of PV panels, was cost effective compared to buying LP for years to come. Of course, we already had batteries and the rest of our wind and PV system, and just added PV panels to cover the electric use of the refrigerator. Nowadays, the Sunfrost is still about the same price, there are other 12 or 24 volt efficient refrigeration options, even 120volt AC refrigerators are more efficient, and PV panels are a lot cheaper than 25 years ago. I would not even consider a gas refrigerator any more--you have to keep buying fuel for it!!!


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## Jim-mi

Katlup . . . No . .it was made by Dan Alway--cottage industry many years ago. Its about 6 cf. He used a top of the line Danfoss compressor. He hasn't 'hand' built them for awhile cause he can't compete with 'factory' made stuff.

For someone starting from ground zero they would be wise to buy two Sun Danzer's . . . .one for a fridge and one as a freezer. With enough PV and a battery you would have excellent super efficient refridgeration for years to come.


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## Ben C

I am a Diamond dealer. They are pretty good but the top requested sellers are the EZ Freeze and Crystal Cold. They have been around a lot longer but only Diamond has the smaller stainless model.
They had a problem with their cooling system a while back but supposedly it's fixed now and the track record has been good as of late.


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## no1cowboy

texican said:


> Absorption fridges are a lot slower to cool things down than regular fridges... forget about having ice and ice cream at the same time..


I have a danby propane fridge and have no truble with freezing stuff.
and it uses vary little gas.


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## Windy in Kansas

SolarGary said:


> Hi,
> These guys:
> http://www.lpappliances.com/crystalcold.html
> 
> show a Crystal Cold 15 cuft propane model that uses (they say) 0.29 gallons of propane per day.
> Around here with $2.20 a gallon propane, that would cost 64 cents a day to run.
> 
> Our 1 year old energy star 18 cuft electric fridge is rated at 448 KWH/year, or 1.2 KWH a day -- around here with 10 cent a KWH that is 12 cents a day.
> 
> Seems like electric is the hands down winner to me?
> 
> If you are off grid, you would have to consider the extra expense of the PV panels to run it.
> 
> If I convert 0.29 gallons of propane energy into equivalent KWH, I get 7.8 KWH compared to 1.2KWH for our electric -- so it looks like the propane fridge is much more efficient?
> 
> Gary


Thinking of the nearly 1/3 gallon of fuel use per day for LP--assuming a person had photovoltaics for charging batteriess and also a generator for use when larger quantities of electricity are needed the 1/3 gallon per day would go quite a ways at extra battery charging and just use an electric refrigerator IF they don't have the money at the moment to support extra PV panels.


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## Ben C

Danby, Sevel (Dometic) and EZ Freeze 10 cu ft use about 1 lb per 24 hrs. The 12 cu ft models use about 1.25 lbs per day, 15-19 cu ft use 1.5 lbs per 24 hrs.
There are 4.25 lbs in a gallon of propane. A 20lb gas bottle like used on a BBQ grill will run the smaller ones approximately 20 days. 
http://www.bensdiscountsupply.com/


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