# Goldendoodles???



## sisterpine (May 9, 2004)

I have come to a conclusion that I would like a standard poodle or a goldendoodle as our large dog on the new homestead. So I wandered around the net looking for some of those. There is no way I can justify paying 2K for a goldendoodle F1b type, or even a grand for a poodle. I am not looking for a show dog, just a farm dog. I know some will say you get what you pay for and that may be right. I will pay for a healthy young dog...but I don't care if the ears/nose/feet are not just right. Just sayin.


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## CAjerseychick (Aug 11, 2013)

My friend has one, nothing to write home about.... why dont you look at English shepherds and the like? Good homestead dogs, with out the fussy coat issues (I would never have that poodley coat on a farm) and 2 K ? NOOOOOOO!...


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## Sensiblefarmer (Apr 24, 2014)

I still can't believe how many gullible people still shell out good money for mongrels with cute names. I've spent a lot on good quality show dogs, but mutts, no way. There is also a general lack of sophistication among pet owners who now prefer mongrels to well bred quality dogs.


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## notwyse (Feb 16, 2014)

Golden doodles can be great dogs....as can the labradoodle. Check out the rescue sites. These dogs are only as good as their owners and parents....but I sure understand the appeal. If you are not breeding the animal and selling pups there is no reason not to select the animal simply for taste and preference. Mutts and crossbreeds are fantastic.... And often come without the problems their respective parental lineage.


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## MDKatie (Dec 13, 2010)

My sister has a 5 month old Standard Poodle pup and she's just great so far.

Doodles have got to be the biggest scam in dog breeding. They're sold as "hyopallergenic", but really it's a crap shoot whether they'll be shedders or not, since they're very unpredictable as far as traits go. They're crossbreds, and not a breed at all. Some take after the poodle side, some take after the retriever side. They also tend to be pretty crazy, mentally.


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## Sensiblefarmer (Apr 24, 2014)

Excessive and improper inbreeding can cause problems in pure bred animals for sure, but it is a myth that mongrels are immune from any of the same problems. A lot of the doodle owners are starting to find this out, when their dogs come down with the same hip, heart or other problems as the parent stock.


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## Sensiblefarmer (Apr 24, 2014)

MDKatie said:


> My sister has a 5 month old Standard Poodle pup and she's just great so far.
> 
> Doodles have got to be the biggest sham in dog breeding. They're sold as "hyopallergenic", but really it's a crap shoot whether they'll be shedders or not, since they're very unpredictable as far as traits go. They're crossbreds, and not a breed at all. Some take after the poodle side, some take after the retriever side. They also tend to be pretty crazy, mentally.


Very true. Some of that craziness is due in part to the mentality of the owners, not always the most willing to understand or to carry out proper training techniques, but then if they were more enlightened, they probably wouldn't be swallowing the doodle propaganda in the first place.


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## bluemoonluck (Oct 28, 2008)

Well bred dogs cost money. It doesn't cost me a dollar less to whelp and raise a "pet" pup than it does a "show" pup! And despite the high prices of my pups, I NEVER come out ahead financially. 

You want a dog who's parents have had the appropriate health testing for the breed. You want to see words like "CERF" and "OFA" if you're going to be buying a dog. Otherwise what you "save" in the purchase price will be spent many times over in vet bills... 

The doodle mixes make me cringe, as do all the high-dollar mutts being sold these days. There is no magic that happens in utero that could transform the genes of a poorly bred Poodle and a poorly bred Lab into a well bred pup. Many of the genetic diseases Poodles can have are the same as the genetic diseases the breeds they're being crossed with have. Anyone who doesn't understand that breeding two dogs with hip dysplasia together will likely give you pups with hip dysplasia, regardless of the breeds of the parents, needs to go back and review genetics 101. 

There are a very few doodle breeders who do the appropriate health testing. But most of them do not, and their breeding stock are riddled with health problems. 

You'd be better off working with a Poodle rescue if you want a Poodle but don't want to pay for a well-bred one. At least they vet the dogs, so you'll know what problems the dog has up-front. Also, if you aren't insistent on a puppy, many breeders will place retired adults into pet homes for a very small fee. It's worth finding a breeder who health tests and inquiring, IMO.


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## Sensiblefarmer (Apr 24, 2014)

RIGHT ON!

You bring up another issue, and that is that many responsible breeders are quick to point out that they don't make any money by breeding their dogs, almost as if it's a bad thing. True, it often is not a profitable undertaking, but profit for a job well done is not a bad thing. I wish that there were a better way to do both.


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## bluemoonluck (Oct 28, 2008)

SensibleFarmer, I agree that if someone can make a profit raising dogs and doing it RIGHT (ie proper vet care, all health testing done, all dogs properly cared for, etc) than that's fine. My breed is one of the more expensive breeds (you can expect to pay anywhere from $2,500 - $3,500 for a well-bred puppy  ) and even at those prices I'm not able to break even. They're priced so high because they're expensive dogs to get bred for a myriad of reasons, and then they have an average of 3 puppies per litter.

Purebreds get their bad rap when people see the prices for the health-tested, well-bred ones, and they decide that there's no way they're going to pay that much for a puppy, so they get one from some dolt in the paper. Then the puppy ends up being sick all the time, suffering from all the genetic disorders that weren't tested for in the parents....and the owner of the pup believes (mistakenly) that all purebreds are a health nightmare. 

I love this article, it actually breaks down how much the purchase price of a pup actually costs per day over the course of it's lifetime. The difference between a well-bred dog and a poorly-bred dog is pennies a day! [FONT=&quot]http://www.forbes.com/sites/allenstjohn/2012/02/17/how-much-is-that-doggie-in-the-window-the-surprising-economics-of-purchasing-a-purebred-puppy/

I actually encourage people to investigate all their options, and choose what's best for their situation. If you are looking for a pet, oftentimes the local shelter will have a great mixed breed dog for you. If you want a purebred but don't want to deal with puppy crazies, a retired show dog or rescue dog of a specific breed may work for you. But if you want to go out and buy a purebred puppy, and you're going to spend any amount of $$$ on it, you should spend the extra $$$ on a well-bred one IMO.
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## Sensiblefarmer (Apr 24, 2014)

You're preaching to the choir. I know all of that. I just _wish_ that there were a better way to do both.


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## oneraddad (Jul 20, 2010)

I have quality retrievers for a reasonable price, Digger, Sage and their offspring Maggie.


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## sisterpine (May 9, 2004)

First off, I love LOVE Golden Retrievers and were it not for the constant shedding and my not wanting dog hair all over my clothes, furniture and beds (yes my dogs get on sofas and bed) then I would have one in half a heart beat. I am working with some poodle rescues but they want a promise that it will be an inside dog and not a working dog? I know, makes no sense to me either. I will keep looking till a poodle mixed with something else I like lands on my doorstep as I am sure it will.


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## sisterpine (May 9, 2004)

By the way, I check the local humane society etc every other day and they are most all pit mixes and this is not a dog I am interested in.


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## arnie (Apr 26, 2012)

always think about what you need a farm/homestead dog for . if you just want a pet or compainion to be cute n lay about the yard and couch , or do you need a helper protectector about the farm . a lab poodle mix has a lot of bird dog in its blood may be hard to train to leave chickens alone . most of the desiner dog breeders aren't using quality dogs as parent stock so theres liable to be inherited trouble and yes intelligence is something you need in any dog and not a priority on puppy mills. best to take advantage of generations of experienced breeders work and knowledge espchelly if your putting out money .why take a chance ? if you are hearding sheep get a English shepard .hunting ducks a retriever , treeing **** a hound , guarding the castle pits bulls .keeping varmits away on the homestead a cur . I have a friend with a couple labridoodles they are great pets good at ball fetching walking in the parkand playing with the kids very friendly and pretty in there environment .


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## sisterpine (May 9, 2004)

I want a guard dog who will chase away coyotes, alert when company arrives, not shed much and not eat the peacocks, goats or caged bunnies.


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## arnie (Apr 26, 2012)

I have Mt.curs and have never had a problem I live on a farm back in the woods with all types of preaditors all types of homestead livestock includeing rabbits and freerange chickens. these are the smartest most faithful dogs I ever owned . goggle them ;breeders are hard to find in some areas theses are "the" farm dogs .


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## Haven (Aug 16, 2010)

Please don't perpetuate the Doodle mix scam  These mixes are all over the shelters.

A Doodle mix wont guard or protect from coyotes unless you get very lucky with a roll of the mutt dice. I have worked with so many of these mixes over the years. Most of them have dopey, high energy, goofball, temperaments and will hop in a car with the first stranger that stops their car. A coyote would tear a Poodle mix to pieces.

The grooming requirements and chronic ear infection issues are of epic proportions in this mix. 

Most of the Doodle mixes have coats that as high maintenance as they come. If you wouldn't own a Standard Poodle, or Old English Sheepdog because their coats grow extremely fast and require monthly grooming visits costing 100.00s, don't buy a Doodle mix. About 99.9% of my grooming career that dealt with Doodle mixes was spent flushing out chronically infected ears or stripping down filthy, stinking, matted coats filled with sticks, manure and bubble gum. People buy these dogs being lied to and told they are so healthy and low maintenance, then spend the next 15 years in a non stop battle paying for ear infections and matted, pelted coats that grow super fast.


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## citxmech (Dec 26, 2011)

sisterpine said:


> I want a guard dog who will chase away coyotes, alert when company arrives, not shed much and not eat the peacocks, goats or caged bunnies.


For general family/farm guarding - a good Bulldog or working mastiff might be my choice. But for livestock guarding, you'll want to make sure the dog's prey drive is not off the charts. 

Pyrenees are very family friendly, and would be a great option if it weren't for their thick coat. 

My Kangal x Boerboel cross fulfills some of those requirements pretty well:

She is murder on predators and vermin (2 rats and 3 possum so far this season on our city property - and could've had 2-3 raccoons if I didn't drag her off them). She's not proven with Coyote yet - but given her attitude, I have little doubt she would defend against them. Our farm property has Coyote, Bears, Eagles, and Mountain Lions, so at some point we'll probably see how she does with the bigger animals as we spend more time up there now that it's fenced.

She sheds, but not excessively (blows 2x per year) and it's very short. 

She's great with goats, OK with the cats, but starts to lick her lips and salivate when she sees our chickens - though she has gotten a bit better around them over time (admittedly, we've done the least amount of work with her with our chooks). 

Nobody is going to sneak up on you and she's not afraid to back a man down - but this could lead to liability issues if you don't have very secure fencing and safe areas for deliveries and clear areas to any meters. (FWIW - Our dog knows who our neighbors, and meter and delivery people are, and we haven't had a problem, even when we're not home - but she really needs to be crated when an unknown person comes onto the property like a repairman or contractor).

Regarding pure v. mixed breeds. I think it really depends on what you want. If you can find a pure breed from a reputable breeder that does what you want - great. If you want either a blend of traits or a toned-down version of a certain breed - intelligent mixes can work - but just understand that every dog is an individual and you'll never really know what you've got or what to expect until you are well out of puppyhood. Before you entertain a mix, I'd want to meet some examples and talk to some owners first.


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## Maura (Jun 6, 2004)

A dog that will run off coyotes? Check out livestock guardian dogs and see if there is something that will fit the bill. Sometimes the mere presence of a barking dog will keep coyotes away, but if dinner is getting scarce they will still visit you. If I was looking for a serious guard dog I&#8217;d get a Dobermann. They are easily trained, good house dogs, and take their territory seriously. Of course, would have to be trained. Of course, would have to be from good lines. However, they are not stay outside dogs. You could have the dog outside during the hours you most worry about, or have two and rotate them.

I would not use a standard poodle to protect the livestock; the house and you yes. You can start calling to reputable breeders and ask if they have an older pup or young dog. Dogs are often returned to them, sometimes they keep one as a show prospect. These dogs would be much cheaper than a puppy.


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## Oakshire_Farm (Dec 4, 2008)

I run a dog boarding kennel...... DO NOT for a second tell you that a doodle does not shed..... Every single one I have ever met (at least 50 of them) sheds worse that both labs and goldens! So when people try to pass them off as hypoallergenic it drives me crazy! PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE, take every other persons advice and stay away from the doodles! They WILL not be a farm dog! They tend to be high maintenance, they need LOTS of grooming, are you ready to spend $75ish every 3 months for grooming??? 

Keep in mind the original guy that designed the cross, was trying to make a better service dog. They are not ment to be farm/guard dogs.


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## notwyse (Feb 16, 2014)

I have a schnauzer poodle mix. Does not shed at all. Great hard dog. Smaller than the coyotes...so not a plus on that. She is great around livestock...but not a working dog. I clip her frequently. Best company I ever had....but not a working dog.


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## GrannyCarol (Mar 23, 2005)

notwyse said:


> ... Mutts and crossbreeds are fantastic.... And often come without the problems their respective parental lineage.


And, just as often, they come with the same genetic baggage as their parents, just like any dog! Just because you cross to another breed doesn't mean bad genes disappear, it can easily mean that you have a dog with the bad genes from BOTH breeds. The line that crossing two breeds makes for healthier puppies is pretty much the line the people selling them for big bucks make. 

For healthier puppies, buy from someone that has tested the parents, grandparents and great grandparents. Sure, there is ALWAYS a chance of something going wrong, but it is the care, thought, money in testing, etc., that reliably makes for great puppies. Of course you can get a great dog that is a total mongrel too, we've had some, but your chances aren't better than from a carefully bred litter. 

Purebred litters from people that breed for money rather than for health are just as likely to have problem puppies as crossbred litters bred for the same purpose. It's not the pure vs crosses so much to me, its the education, care, research into bloodlines and health problems, things like that that make the difference. 

A goldendoodle could be a great dog, probably will have a good temperament, both breeds tend to have happy, outgoing, easily trained temperaments. It will probably have a LOT of high care coat. The ones I've groomed have had very heavy, wavy coats with undercoat. Not hypoallergenic, not easy to groom, though very cute when groomed. I'd hesitate for a farm dog, unless you have a groomer on retainer...  It would probably be easier to keep a Standard Poodle very short and easy to care for. I happen to love that breed, but generally they will require constant care to avoid cheat grass abcesses (along with any breed with a thick coat though). 

I'm really liking my smooth coated Collie for easy care and incredibly smart fun dog.


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## Spamela (Nov 23, 2013)

Well I guess I have to disagree with everyone.

My dad is a dairy farmer and they have had two labradoodles. The first one they got from the pound. He was the greatest dog. He really helped my dad alot on the farm and would even round up the cows. It wasn't something that came natural to him like it would a heeler, but he did it anyway just because he wanted to please my dad so much. Unfortunatley he got hit by a grain truck in the field. The second they bought as a puppy. And if you knew my dad, you would know that he must have really liked his first buy a second one. I can't remember how much they spent but it was no $2000. I think it was around 400-500. My dad really likes this dog too. I don't care for him but only because he thinks he is better than everyone else besides my dad. Still he is a working farm dog as well.

Neither of these dogs shed. He only get a haircut once a year in early summer that dad does with the cow clippers. Yes their hair will get dirty and sticks will get in it, and you have to keep their backend trimmed if you know what I mean. Honestly if your not too picky on how "tidy" the dog looks, the dog will be fine being a little dirty.

But they are very smart dogs that are very devoted to their owner, and will try to do most things that you ask them to. Just don't spend 2000 on one. I wouldn't spend that on any dog.


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## Maura (Jun 6, 2004)

And I will disagree. That Labradoodle is not going to run off coyotes unless they run from his bark. Different duties require different dogs.


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## Molly Mckee (Jul 8, 2006)

A Doberman was the best farm dog we ever had. She put any animal back where it belonged if it got out, got along with everything, was very protective of both her animals and her people. The short hair is a plus on a farm. About 50% of dobies die from congestive heart failure, so either buy a puppy from a breeder that tests or realize that it is something you may have to face. We rescued 3, and lost them to CHF,
but they were 9-11.


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## Spamela (Nov 23, 2013)

Maura said:


> And I will disagree. That Labradoodle is not going to run off coyotes unless they run from his bark. Different duties require different dogs.


I guess you haven't met this labradoodle.


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## JJ Grandits (Nov 10, 2002)

I've had bird dogs with a pedigree that would intimidate royalty and I've had mutts that at best could only be described as "some sort of dog". We socialized them, trained them, and loved them. They were all great. Even the ones who got in the garbage and crapped on the floor had some outstanding qualities. More then I can say for some family members. I appreciate a well bred dog and my current English setter is one of them. My other dog, who I have mentioned before, is a border collie, blue heeler, Australian shepard, kelpie mix. God only knows what else is in there. She is outstanding. I don't think I could ask for a more perfect dog. Over the last six years I had to put down three dogs. They were perfect in my eyes too. I don't get into the breed snobs. Before you criticise my dogs breeding lets look at your own. You get from a dog what you put into it.


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## oneraddad (Jul 20, 2010)

I saw this this morning and thought of this thread. What a deal at only $250 !



















1/2 American Bulldog, 1/2 German shepherd pups born 6/1/14,. I have both parents, this was an unplanned litter, brindled & sables. Adoption fee to be apied to.vet bill. Please call for more information and viewing




http://reno.craigslist.org/grd/4549042865.html


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## GrannyCarol (Mar 23, 2005)

JJ Grandits - I couldn't agree more! My current two dogs are purebred from top breeders, but they are no better than some of the mutts we've had. About all I can say about a "well bred" dog is that it is more likely to have the traits bred for in the breed and more likely to be sound where the breeder has bred for soundness. In the end though, each dog is its own dog and is as good as it's own individual temperament and care make it. 

Some of my most beloved dogs have been difficult, required extra training and care to live with, but they were great dogs!


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## Sensiblefarmer (Apr 24, 2014)

One dog, or 10 is statistically insignificant. You may occasionally find an individual in any breed or mix which can point, herd, retrieve, protect, etc, but that does not mean that the majority of them do.


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## dlskidmore (Apr 18, 2012)

Never pay extra for a hybrid. Unless both parents are homogeneous, and you've seen that exact cross from those exact parents before, it's rolling the dice. Dog breeds are never homogeneous, if we got to that point we wouldn't need dog shows any more because they'd all be little clones of each other like commercially produced seeds. There is variability in the breed, and even within an individual you don't know which of Mom's two versions of a gene they got, and how it will interact with which two copies of Dad's gene they got. 

If you're looking for a livestock guardian dog, go to a working dog breeder. They need the right instincts and early raising to be both safe around stock and dangerous to predators. You might find this in a rescue dog or a show home, but it's a gamble.

If you're looking for a generic farm dog that works under supervision and with training, and don't want to spend a lot of money, go to the pound. Read up on dog training and work with the dog every day. Never leave him unsupervised with the stock until you've done months of training and have covertly watched him with them several times. You could put him loose in a field that there's no stock on if you want him to bark at coyotes. You could use temporary fencing to rotate your grazing animals around the pasture while the dog roams and protects the area between the temporary and permanent fence.

You can try volunteering with a local rescue, offer to foster their dogs until you find the right one for your needs among those.


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## notwyse (Feb 16, 2014)

Gotta say...the Navajo reservation has some truly mixed up mutts. It is mind blowing to see them out with the sheep like an expensive guard breed....doing the same job.


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## dlskidmore (Apr 18, 2012)

You breed for performance with no respect for looks and that is what you get. I'm sure for generations they have been culling animals that attack sheep. Working dog breeders don't have to produce kennel club recognized breeds. Look at the "sprint hybrid" racing kennels, breeding for a different sort of work.


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## CAjerseychick (Aug 11, 2013)

dlskidmore said:


> You breed for performance with no respect for looks and that is what you get. I'm sure for generations they have been culling animals that attack sheep. Working dog breeders don't have to produce kennel club recognized breeds. Look at the "sprint hybrid" racing kennels, breeding for a different sort of work.


Yeah same here, theres tons of Pyr- anatolian working dog crosses bred for generations to work .... they dont look like the breed manuals, and they are nt super expensive (for pups) but they work...


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## dlskidmore (Apr 18, 2012)

Greyhounds are bred for performance over looks, and you see a huge range of body size and coat patterns among them despite being a pure breed.


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## Haven (Aug 16, 2010)

notwyse said:


> Gotta say...the Navajo reservation has some truly mixed up mutts. It is mind blowing to see them out with the sheep like an expensive guard breed....doing the same job.


They may look like mutts, but i'm sure that if they have skilled dogs out working livestock, they are being selectively bred a lot like purebreds.

The same could probably be said for a lot of sled dogs you see in the far north with floppy ears and spotted coats. They don't look like a breed we know with a breed kennel club, but they got there due to a lot of selective breeding.


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## Chief Cook (Apr 24, 2011)

Be careful what you ask for! I wanted a dog that DH wouldn't take **** hunting. She has been twice, and I had to go both times. I wanted a dog that would bark when some one came to the house. The poor FedX man will never be the same... I know when people are around the place up to 1/2 a mile away. No coyote, dove, bull snake, box turtle, or train moves that she doesn't wake up all the hounds and gets them barking also. LOL She came from the pound and is half Red Heeler and half Aus. Shep. DH and I have been herded out of the yard and all the way to the pick up, plenty! If a hound is out of his pen, she promptly jumps him and tries to put him back into the pen, even if DH is holding the hound's collar trying to move it to another pen so he can clean the pens. Yeah, I do stand in the house at the window and laugh. I told him not to let her out of the yard!! I spend lots of time alone and it is a long way to the neighbor, so I do feel much safer with her around, she is right there watching over me. Good luck with whatever dog you choose and I hope you the very best.


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## agrichick45 (Apr 14, 2014)

Tangent back to original post... I personally dislike most doodles, but my friend has an Aussie Doodle that is a MAGNIFICENT homestead dog! Shorter hair, brains, stock ability, etc.


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## dlskidmore (Apr 18, 2012)

Yeah, it is random and some of them are awesome, but it is a roll of the dice.


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## lasergrl (Nov 24, 2007)

Sounds like you want a komondor. When they are groomed or kept short they look just like a huge labradoodle. But being a livestock breed they will do what you need.


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