# the vet won't give me my dog back... what do i do?



## HillsideWayCSA

It can't really be legal to keep a dog can it? It's not nice that's for sure. I've been so messed up over this I don't know what to do. 

My dog got in an accident yesterday. He tried diving though a piece of fencing he couldn't fit through and speared himself with a piece of heave gauge wire. The wire went in at his waist and out his hip and the poor dog was hung up but wiggled his way off of it which left a gaping 10" hole under his skin. There's no way I could treat the wound myself so I took him to the vet. He had to have drain tubes put in under his skin and had everything flushed out real good. Tetanus shots and antibiotics. Not cheap but very necessary. 

This is a dog I've had longer than my oldest kid. I adopted him when I got depressed about not being able to get pregnant after 1 1/2 years of marriage and needed to take my mind off of trying to have a baby. 5 weeks after I got him I got pregnant with my oldest. I blame the dog for taking my mind off my depression and giving me something else to think about. He's been a guardian and a friend since April 2001. He was a natural babysitter for my kids, he kept me from being down in the dumps on bad days. He saw me through my divorce. I gave up my hunting rifle and my car so I could keep the dog. He means the world to me. 

Today I was told if I couldn't come up with the bill in full or give them collateral they wouldn't give me my dog back. My poor dog who's never been away from home and is in pain is stuck in a small cage in the back of the vet's office. They will add an extra fee for keeping him another night. Which I won't be able to pay and then they'll keep him another day. I've been beside myself in grief. I can't stop crying thinking about not getting my dog back.

It can't be right. Even if he didn't have years of sentimental value to him a person should be able to get adequate emergency care for their animal without worrying if they'll ever see him again. Right? Am I so out of line to think they're being unreasonable?

I don't know what to do. An attorney would cost so much more. I had every intention of paying her back little by little. I figured I'd spend the next couple of months giving the vet every last dime just to pay her back, but I never in the world thought I'd lose my dog because I wanted him treated after an accident. 

I'm not sure why I'm posting here. Reaching out for understanding maybe. I guess I'm just lost. I'm a single mom trying to make a living with my little farm and stay out of everyones way. I've never been a cheater or criminal (I did get a ticket when I forgot to put on my seatbelt once). It just doesn't seem right.

Thank you for letting me cry about my problem. I can't seem to stop crying. I think about how impossible it's going to be to come up with that much money and then they're going to add to the bill every night they keep him. It seems hopeless. It can't be right. Please go easy with the responses. It's been one helluva 24hrs and it's not close to over yet. 

This is one of those times I wish I had a man around to push until he got what was right. I'm so exhausted. I know I'm grasping at lose ends but I just don't know what to do.


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## Kazahleenah

Not sure of the laws in Oregon, but how much is the bill?


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## Minelson

I would call the police.  hugs to you..


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## unregistered29228

The vet won't accept payments? Lots of procedures are expensive and people can't pay up front. If he's being unreasonable, tell him you'll file with the Better Business Bureau, the American Veterinary Medical Association and your state's Inspector General. If the vet is totally not willing to budge, can you use a credit card?

It's stressing your dog too, not being with you, and that's cruel. And when this is over, I'd never use that vet again. Obviously he's just out for the money.


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## robinthegeek

That is horrible! 

Is it an ER vet? Had to take my pooch to the emergency vet a couple of years ago, and they wouldn't even treat him until we put up a credit card, which we did. Then paid it off with our tax refund.

I would think any decent vet would be more concerned about your pet's well being though, and work out a payment schedule.

This makes me so mad! Will they let you visit your dog?


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## Ravenlost

I agree, I'd never use that vet again! Do yu have anything you could sell quickly to raise the money? Jewelry/TV, etc. you could pawn?

I've been in your situation before (single mom pinching pennies) but have never had a vet hold my pet hostage! I've never had one refuse to accept payments either.


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## JuliaAnn

I'd call the police too. 

Police won't help, call your county commissioner, and be sure to tell the vet and the police that you are going to the county commissioner with the problem.

That has done wonders for me before. Good luck.


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## danielsumner

Did you explain your financial situation before you ok'ed the treatment? Not to sound cruel, but I have a couple friends who are vets. They don't make as much money as people think; there are a lot of overheard expenses. Animal hospitals have to make money, or they don't make it. There are so many people who OK treatment when they know before hand that they can't pay. It&#8217;s not like a people hospital where they have to treat you by law. They are simply holding on to the animal to ensure payment. If you make arrangements before treatment for payments, that is one thing, but to wait until after surgery along with all the assorted costs, and then try and make a payment arrangement is not fair to the vet. They have to make a living like the rest of us. Did they offer any alternatives before the treatment, such as putting the dog to sleep and did they also give you an estimate of the treatment charges. All vets I have been to have always done so before treatment. Sorry for your situation and hope everything works out.

Daniel


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## Jokarva

My vet is having a terrible time with people not paying their bills, she's worrying over whether she'll have to close one of her two offices and lay off staff (I've known her for years, she's a friend as well). Times are tough for everyone, but I don't think my vet would hold a pet hostage...

That being said - there must be some way they'll accommodate you. They certainly don't want to keep your dog forever. 

If they want collateral (and, imho, I think that's reasonable), as long as you're intending to pay them in full couldn't you give them something you don't need immediately - with the written understanding you get it back as soon as the bill is paid?

Also proves your credibility in case you need to use them again.

I hope it works out for you and your pup's home with you soon!

KC


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## MaveRick*

The vet is lucky it isn't me that she tried this on because I'd go ballistic on their butts. I'm very protective of my pets and I don't tolerate anyone messing with them. Before I finished, they would be begging me to work something out!


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## Wags

Did you actually talk to the vet or to the person in the front office? If you are using the vet in Scio then I am very surprised as they have been very good about working with me. If you used the emergency vet hospital in Albany then I'm not surprised at all.


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## wr

Contact your local media.


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## lasergrl

This is standard procedure, not unheard of at all. however, they should have given you an estimate. I would make a stink about not getting an estimate. You can also look up online something called "care credit" . They should have offered this to you. If you make a big enough stink, they may let the dog be released. If after the initial fuss they still refuse you can make a police report and threaten to call the media.


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## Tobster

The vet is licensed in your state and regulated by guidelines. You need to know if the vet is meeting state standards by keeping your dog. Call the state licensing agency, often located at the state capitol. You have a computer, google and get the number. If you can not come up with the agency or number, call your local library, they have reference material and will help you with the phone number. Take notes when you talk to the state agency. Hopefully, the vet is breaking rules, if that is the case you are home free. Money is tight for a lot of people now, I am sure your vet is no exception. A sit down face to face about payment may do the trick. I would try to pull a little money together to make a first payment if you can schedule a meeting. From the vet's point of view, she is money out of pocket on drugs and supplies, those expenses will be her primary concern.


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## rider

I agree with wr get the media involved this is a cruel thing this person who calls themself a vet is doing i worked in vet medicine for 12 years and we would never have done anything like this maybe get ahold of your local DVMA association and file complaint against the "doctor" also agree with the person who asked is this front office telling you this or the dr. actually said this as front office people soetimes thing they are goddesses and they really arent


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## HillsideWayCSA

I'd rather not mention the vet cause I don't want to do anything more than vent I guess. I did have every intention of paying the vet. I knew the procedures would be a lot but I've never stood anyone up before. If I'd had any idea they would have kept my dog I would have asked first for sure. I had no idea they could do that. I can understand wanting to get paid but to keep a persons dog? I thought we had made it clear that I was short on funds. She'd offered me other services along side of what had to be done and we came to the conclusion if they weren't needed than to avoid the bill. That accident would only have been life threatening if it'd been left unattended so that subject was never brought up. I do understand they need to make a living too but they might as well have kept my kid, what they're doing isn't right. It's not like a car that is in a garage right now. It's a dog. And tomorrow the bill will be more so how will keeping him do anything other than dig a hole so deep I have no way to get out of it? I wouldn't ever cheat anyone, but when something/someone you care about is hurt you don't stop to think about the cost you just want them better with as little pain and suffering as possible. Am I really being unreasonable to want my dog home? If I had a credit card I'd be happy to max it out for my dog. If I owned anything of value I would hand it over. But I don't. Unless they want one of my goats. The down side to this farming thing is the cashflow isn't as even as if I was working a 9-5 job. I don't get a paycheck every friday or on the first of every month that I can promise. I hate to promise a payment on a certain day because I have no way if I'm going to have it that day. I just give a little here and there as I get it because I know I'll get it, just takes a while for it to pile up. 

I'm sure some of you know what I mean.

I just want my dog back. That's all. My head hurts I've been stressed out over it. 

I think the worst thing is next time one of the animals gets hurt I'm going to have to wonder if I can afford to get it fixed or lose it until I can. No one should have to live with that kind of stress. Even poor people should be able to take their dogs to be fixed in an emergency. I'd give a family food in an emergency if needed and that's my business. It's not like I took my dog to a groomer and then didn't want to pay the bill. It was an emergency. One that I couldn't take care of alone. People should feel comfortable enough to be able to call on help in an emergency.


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## Linda J

See if you can work off the bill. Times are hard right now. Make the offer anyway, if you're able. I'm pretty sure they aren't going to let your dog be in any pain, but I understand that you are very concerned with the bill adding up. You might contact legal aid in your area to see what you can do.


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## HillsideWayCSA

It was the actual doctor I talked too. I was there through the whole surgery. Took my dog out first thing to use the potty and held his head while they sedated him. I watched the whole procedure. And turned down when they asked if I wanted him to have a dental while he was on the table. I turned it down ofcourse. I knew the bill would be high.


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## Bearfootfarm

It sounds a lot like extortion to me.
He's holding the dog hostage, and also running up the bill

He should give you your dog, and if you don't pay him off he can take you to small claims court.


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## insocal

If you signed an estimate of fees and authorization to treat, you almost certainly signed an agreement to pay in full before the dog would be released to you. I haven't seen any vets who DIDN'T require that sort of thing in over 20 years (myself included). Because we are virtually guaranteed to never see a dime once the animal goes out the door ('cause vets are always the first to be ripped off when money is short), we are legally permitted to place a lien on our patients. That's how it is in CA and probably every other state, too.

Many years ago most vets would bill people for the balance due, but so many of them lost HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS OF DOLLARS over the years that they all stopped accepting promises to pay after sending pets home. Sad, I know. And inconvenient for those who authorize treament knowing they don't have the money for it, but it's the only way to make people PAY FOR SERVICES RENDERED most of the time.

I have been known to accept post-dated checks and promises to pay from REALLY good clients who I know to have a steady job, but even that is largely unnecessary these days with so many people having credit cards.

Veterinarians are not bankers and cannot lend to clients without bankrupting ourselves in the bargain. We do not have the resources to work without pay, not should we be expected to do so.


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## fordy

...............He seems too be kinda caught up in his Accounts Receivable doesn't he ! I understand about holding the dog as collateral but he should have consulted with you relative too his charges before he applied the full treatment . I'm sorry you're going through this situation and I Pray that you'll find some kind of way too resolve the issue and bring your best friend home ! , fordy


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## insocal

Tobster said:


> The vet is licensed in your state and regulated by guidelines. You need to know if the vet is meeting state standards by keeping your dog. Call the state licensing agency, often located at the state capitol. You have a computer, google and get the number. If you can not come up with the agency or number, call your local library, they have reference material and will help you with the phone number. Take notes when you talk to the state agency. Hopefully, the vet is breaking rules, if that is the case you are home free. Money is tight for a lot of people now, I am sure your vet is no exception. A sit down face to face about payment may do the trick. I would try to pull a little money together to make a first payment if you can schedule a meeting. From the vet's point of view, she is money out of pocket on drugs and supplies, those expenses will be her primary concern.


Veterinary licensing boards do not intervene in financial disputes. They handle incompetence, negligence, malpractice etc complaints. The board will say it is a civil matter to be decided in the courts, and if there is a signed authorization and agreement to pay, the OP is out of luck.

Why are veterinarians always expected to work for no pay or inadequate pay?? Most people who are so outraged here probably have no clue how hideously expensive it can be to run a veterinary hospital.


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## insocal

Mom_of_Four said:


> The vet won't accept payments? Lots of procedures are expensive and people can't pay up front. If he's being unreasonable, tell him you'll file with the Better Business Bureau, the American Veterinary Medical Association and your state's Inspector General. If the vet is totally not willing to budge, can you use a credit card?
> 
> It's stressing your dog too, not being with you, and that's cruel. And when this is over, I'd never use that vet again. Obviously he's just out for the money.


Darned right the vet's "just out for the money". We aren't running charities. We run BUSINESSES with hideously high overhead. Without money paid for services rendered, we cannot stay open. People who cheat vets out of money they EARNED BY PERFORMING SERVICES are increasing the chance that the vets involved will go out of business and leave the community with no vet care at all. For shame.


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## arabian knight

There is many vet clinics now that take collateral before the dog is returned the bill must be paid or have arrangements to pay it off.
My friend is a vet tech and she says they have tons of "stuff" they have collected to pay off vet bills.


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## Minelson

insocal said:


> If you signed an estimate of fees and authorization to treat, you almost certainly signed an agreement to pay in full before the dog would be released to you. I haven't seen any vets who DIDN'T require that sort of thing in over 20 years (myself included). Because we are virtually guaranteed to never see a dime once the animal goes out the door ('cause vets are always the first to be ripped off when money is short), we are legally permitted to place a lien on our patients. That's how it is in CA and probably every other state, too.
> 
> Many years ago most vets would bill people for the balance due, but so many of them lost HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS OF DOLLARS over the years that they all stopped accepting promises to pay after sending pets home. Sad, I know. And inconvenient for those who authorize treament knowing they don't have the money for it, but it's the only way to make people PAY FOR SERVICES RENDERED most of the time.
> 
> I have been known to accept post-dated checks and promises to pay from REALLY good clients who I know to have a steady job, but even that is largely unnecessary these days with so many people having credit cards.
> 
> Veterinarians are not bankers and cannot lend to clients without bankrupting ourselves in the bargain. We do not have the resources to work without pay, not should we be expected to do so.


Wow....I'm glad I live here. The vet I work at has nothing like this. No written estimates, nothing needs to be signed or paid in full before pets are released. We have very few problems with non-payment...we have some people paying off and we have had some bounced checks...very few. Maybe because the vet is so big hearted no one wants to rip him off.


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## poppysfarm

How much is the bill?


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## HillsideWayCSA

I can understand wanting to get paid. My farm vet comes out and sends a bill and I pay it before the next visit. It's never upfront or all at once but it's paid before the next visit. I have to go back to this vet to get the drain tubes taken outta the dogs side and for follow up appointments so it's not like this is the last time he'd see me. If it wouldn't have been an emergency I'm sure things would have been handled differently and maybe I was dumb for overlooking that subject and asking before having my dog checked out but I don't think I'm alone in the fact that when it's an emergency you don't always think of stuff like that. When it's an emergency you shouldn't have to check your bank account first. If it hadn't been an emergency I'd have waited for my farm vet to come on his next visit and let him look at the dog and have avoided the headache that I don't think will go away any time soon. 

it might be legal but it's not right.


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## Sanza

I feel sorry for the situation you're in, but my first thought was that before they did any treatment for the dog you should have asked how much it was going to cost and if financing is available, if they didn't tell you. Did they tell you the cost and it didn't register in your mind with you being upset about the dogs' injuries? You took the dog in to the vet expecting a service and almost all businesses expect payment for services immediately unless you're a repeat customer with a good reputation for paying when the bill is due. Maybe there is a sign up in the office stating payments due before the release of an animal.
With that said I truely hope you can make some type of deal with them to get your dog back.


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## beccachow

lasergrl said:


> This is standard procedure, not unheard of at all. however, they should have given you an estimate. I would make a stink about not getting an estimate. You can also look up online something called "care credit" . They should have offered this to you. If you make a big enough stink, they may let the dog be released. If after the initial fuss they still refuse you can make a police report and threaten to call the media.


yes, Care Credit saved Duke's life.


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## HillsideWayCSA

What is care credit? Anyone have a site? Is that something that will still help me out? I have to figure something out. Everyday will dig me deeper in the hole.


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## HillsideWayCSA

I looked up the care credit and I guess the vet I saw isn't listed. That's a good idea though.


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## motdaugrnds

Sorry for your situation. I do feel for you; however, I also understand where the vet is coming from. She used items that were costly for her in order to treat your beloved pet; and apparently did a good job. She actually only has limited options, i.e. let you take your pet and "hope" you follow thru with payments OR keep your pet in an attempt to "force" you to pay her. (I personally don't understand how the latter option could ever be used by a caring person; however, she apparently needs the money badly enough to choose that one.)

You could threaten her with the Better Business Bureau. You could, also, let the vet know you are placing a piece in the local newspaper about the situation, which might carry more weight than anything else. Calling the Police will only substantiate she has the "legal" right to hold your dog. 

"hugs"


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## Sawmill Jim

Person said they are going to pay what is the vet going to gain from dog napping ??? Was my dog you bet the local paper would be involved & the cops if someone didn't hand over Rover . I would thrash that vet's cats . :viking:

Things never do mess with my children ,wife or critters if you do hope Obamacare covers your injures :duel:


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## Linda J

insocal, how would you handle this? Do you have any suggestions? If you were the vet in this situation, would you allow the person to do yard work, cleaning, kennel work to work off the debt? Especially if it is a person that has nothing to sell or give you for collateral. I just feel like there has to be something hillsideway could do, even if it is to offer a goat or two to barter the services. I know it seems like everyone is having a tough time right now, and it may get tougher.


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## KimM

You said she'd take collateral? You have a car title you can give her to hold until you pay the bill off? with a written agreement of course!


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## danielsumner

Do we have a answer to the amount of the bill and what is the per day charges. $300 would be easier to figure something out than, say: $2300


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## Joshie

HillsideWayCSA said:


> What is care credit? Anyone have a site? Is that something that will still help me out? I have to figure something out. Everyday will dig me deeper in the hole.


You know, people CAN do lots of things. They can steal, they can lie, they can do all sorts of bad things. Just because we can do something doesn't mean it's legal. 

I think that it's very important to see if this vet is behaving legally. If not, these daily charges are illegal. I'm guessing that this vet could end up owing you more than you owe her if she's not careful.

Several people have given good advice about contacting the police, media and your state's licensing board for veterinary care. Your vet is behaving unethically. You need to find out if she's behaving illegally.


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## jamala

you can go to the care credit web site and apply right now and get an answer. I am not saying lie about your income but I had to apply recently to get dental work done and they did not approve me with enough to cover the entire bill and the nurse helping me apply said "you should have put that you made more money down, and they would have given your more credit" I applied right in the dentist office and it is no interest for 1 year. I had a good credit score and I really think that is all they look at, beside your income. Just google care credit and check it out, it helped me.


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## KimM

Care Credit won't help her unless the vet is a participating member. 





jamala said:


> you can go to the care credit web site and apply right now and get an answer. I am not saying lie about your income but I had to apply recently to get dental work done and they did not approve me with enough to cover the entire bill and the nurse helping me apply said "you should have put that you made more money down, and they would have given your more credit" I applied right in the dentist office and it is no interest for 1 year. I had a good credit score and I really think that is all they look at, beside your income. Just google care credit and check it out, it helped me.


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## Harry Chickpea

Examine.

The dog was impaled, and had it not been for the help of an expert, would likely have died.

The expert has to make a living and has to insure payment. If he doesn't, he cannot save other animals in similar situations.

The dog is being held in lieu of payment or collateral.

There are no evil people here that I can see. The avenue that I see that hasn't been explored is collateral.

Is it possible for the vet to hold the title of a car until payment is made? Is there some other collateral that can be held?


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## KimM

Harry Chickpea said:


> Examine.
> 
> The dog was impaled, and had it not been for the help of an expert, would likely have died.
> 
> The expert has to make a living and has to insure payment. If he doesn't, he cannot save other animals in similar situations.
> 
> The dog is being held in lieu of payment or collateral.
> 
> *There are no evil people here that I can see. The avenue that I see that hasn't been explored is collateral.
> 
> Is it possible for the vet to hold the title of a car until payment is made? Is there some other collateral that can be held?*


See post #35. It's the only thing I could think of in her situation too.


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## Guest

If it were me, I'd haul my computer and TV and car title and goat ownership papers to the VET..I'd ask her to keep all of these things until the bill was paid off..

If she still refused after that, I'd immediately take myself to the nearest TV station and give them a human interest story.


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## HillsideWayCSA

I could see if the bill was $2300 collateral would definitely be expected. My bill came to $310 this afternoon. Which I estimated would take me maybe 8wks to catch up. If this had been last month I could have handed it over without sweating but this month I just don't know how much to expect to come in and can't do it. Accidents seem to have a way of happening when you're already down. The bill will be bigger tomorrow though after adding on keeping him over night and taking care of him. Which means it will just take me longer to pay it off, which isn't right because it's just digging me into an impossible hole by holding him there. That's the part that really gets me, if a person can't put that much out at first how is adding onto the bill going to solve the issue? 

Making a person sick with worry about how she's gonna get her dog back doesn't do anyone any good. I certainly don't need the extra stress. But now I have to wonder how long it'll be before I get my dog back. 

I think the situation could have been handled better though. A professional dealing with a stressed out owner, it would have been nice to have a little more compassion. When she took care of the dog without a mention of cost it really helped with the stress of it all. No one likes seeing their pet in pain and wondering if they'll make it. 

like I said before it might be legal but it's not right. from one pet lover to another keeping a persons pet is a cruel way to get payment. Considering I won't be able to come up with it any faster than if he'd come home. It does no one any good. It certainly doesn't make me want to go back to them again. Which is kinda sad cause it's certainly nice deal with a person once they've gotten to know your story. Ya know? I've never used that clinic before and won't ever again solely because this is the kind of stress I don't need.


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## danielsumner

Found the OP's blog page by searching HT. It can be found at http://unemployedhousewifeandmommy.blogspot.com/. From reading the blog it appears that the bill is about $350. OP please be careful what you write in the blog, you never know who might be reading it. If someone from the Vets office reads it, they might just dig in their heels and demand everything before releasing the dog. I would try to comeup with at least $150 to start with, it would cover the supplies used and might get them to release your dog. Sorry we were posting at the same time.


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## Harry Chickpea

You are right Kim, and you did come up with the idea. Kudos. I was only trying to denature the basics, and hopefully give a larger perspective of why frustration and anger might be better aimed at solving the immediate problem. I empathize with all concerned.


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## ELOCN

Hillside, how much is the bill?


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## HillsideWayCSA

Hey, you all have been real supportive. I thank ya for that. My head hurts, it's been a long stressful day. I'm going to get. I 'll let ya know how tomorrow goes. Anyone know the number to the devil? I have a soul to sale to get a dog back.


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## HillsideWayCSA

The blog. I've found some of my readers are very supportive so I went there first looking for advice since I'd already told them about the accident.


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## KimM

Great minds think alike. :grin: But insead of going on about how unfair the situation is, I'd hope the OP will start considering some suggestions put forth. No way could I be without my dog for even one night. I'd hock anything of ANY value to resolve the debt.



Harry Chickpea said:


> You are right Kim, and you did come up with the idea. Kudos. I was only trying to denature the basics, and hopefully give a larger perspective of why frustration and anger might be better aimed at solving the immediate problem. I empathize with all concerned.


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## quietstar

Small point of fact..The vet is female if that matters. Could be Male Vets run their practice in a different way. It seems to be a problem created by the failure to communicate about a fee which always follows treatment in my experience...Glen


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## ELOCN

How much is the bill?


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## KimM

She said it is $310. 



ELOCN said:


> How much is the bill?


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## busybee870

I have a care credit card too, its a credit card for medical bills, pays vet bills for your pets too. go to carecredit.com, if you put in a dollar amount for the procedure it gives you an immediate answer usually, and.. if approved you print the acceptance with your new account number and can use it for the bill until your card comes in!! plus there are different options, if you pay it off in a certain amount of time, theres no interest!!!! I needed 1200 to pay for dentures, i filed bankruptcy last year, they gave me 1500 in credit, payments are 78 per month, no interest,


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## Lazy J

A Vet is NOT a bank. My wife's clinic constantly has to send accounts to either collections or small claims court. If you signed an agreement to treatment you more than likely agreed to payment in full. As others said check with the YOUR state's veterinary licensing agency. In the two states where my wife practices the clinic CAN keep an animal for non-payment.


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## Lazy J

Joshie said:


> Your vet is behaving unethically. You need to find out if she's behaving illegally.


How is is unethical for the Vet to expect payment for services rendered, payment which I am sure was outlined in the treatment agreement and estimate that was more than likely signed prior to the treatment of the animal?


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## willow_girl

I had this happen to me once. Had to pawn my wedding ring to get my cat back. Never had the money to reclaim it, then I moved to another town. The cat was worth more to me, anyway!


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## Lazy J

insocal said:


> why are veterinarians always expected to work for no pay or inadequate pay?? Most people who are so outraged here probably have no clue how hideously expensive it can be to run a veterinary hospital.


exactly!!!!


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## maleyfarm

I hope you get your dog back soon!


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## frugalbunny

insocal and lazy j, I think you are missing the point. She is not asking them to work for free or even asking for a discount, she is asking for a little time to pay off the bill. And the service was for an emergency, not a nail clip and flea dip. 
And if you are going to say a business is a business We have given away many a tow, some knowing I would never see that money, but do good and good things happen. We aint rich but we aren't hungry


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## Shygal

310 is CHEAP for an emergency and all they did. I know that doesnt help you get the money but it could have been far far more expensive


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## SageLady

Shygal said:


> 310 is CHEAP for an emergency and all they did. I know that doesnt help you get the money but it could have been far far more expensive


Ditto - that is CHEAP! I am very sorry for what you are going through, but if I were you I would scrap that money together somehow and go get your dog! He is worth it and you know he is. You may be living on peanut butter sandwiches for awhile, but getting your dog back is priority. Best wishes and good luck! Keep us updated.


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## sisterpine

If your car is towed to a mechanic for emergency repairs, does he release it without payment?
Even though one is a living breathing creature, the payment issue remains the same.
From your blog you say staying at home is your choice of careers so you're unemployed, have you considered getting a temp job to cover this financial obligation?


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## Tiempo

Could you offer to do grunt work at the practice for a while? Scrubbing cages etc?


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## Terri

bostonlesley said:


> If it were me, I'd haul my computer and TV and car title and goat ownership papers to the VET..I'd ask her to keep all of these things until the bill was paid off..


This is a most excellent suggestion.

Just because you are as honest as the day is long does not change the fact that this vet apparently does not know you. Giving her your stuff to hold until the bill is paid is an excellent way of getting your dog back. Whether the bill is $300 or $2000 the vet does not KOW you! And it sounds like the bill has already been dropped out of compassion.


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## breestephens

Sell the goats.


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## HermitJohn

So what do vets do with unredeemed animals in their impound lot racking up more and more daily fees? Tow truck impound lots jack the bill daily on cars until it quickly becomes more than the vehicle is worth and they take legal ownership and sell it. Seems like that wouldnt really work with household pets unless it is some high dollar pedigreed pooch that can still breed.

Unless the vet has a contract with some Asian restaurant to supply dog on the hoof so to speak, there isnt much demand for somebody's aged pet mutt. Even the used car places that advertise that they will trade for anything, usually put in the disclamer "anything means anything that doesnt eat or poop". Just owning a living creature means an ongoing output of cash to maintain it.

I'd say a vet confronted with an emergency case has to make a judgement call, either refuse to treat without hefty monetary deposit against the final bill. Or gamble on the person paying up. I'd say they could at least offer to euthanize a pet and gamble on not getting paid for that. At least the animal wouldnt suffer. The animal impound lot model however doesnt seem to be very well thought out and would generate lot bad feelings in community if the person goes to the media. Not good for future buisiness.


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## jen74145

I'm torn. On the one hand, it's a business. On the other, it's your DOG. Who keeps somebody's dog as collateral? What happens if your dog picks up an illness from another pet while he is being held?

I don't understand why he won't release the dog and just take you to small claims if he must. Seems that would be better for patient relations, because though I always pay our bills, if I knew one of the vets we frequent did something like this, I would never take mine there again. I'd prefer the one taking care of my pet have a soul as well as a veterinary degree. But that's just me. 

Find out if it's legal. Call legal aid. 

Veterinary medicine is a weird line to walk; yes, a bunsiness, but some folks, all they have in the world might be that raggedy-eared tabby cat. And the odg is a living creature who doesn't deserve to be stressed and frightened in a noisy vet's office, in a small metal cage.


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## bergere

This is a standard practice with Oregon Vets, at least the ones I have dealt with.
((hugs))


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## jbowyer01

http://www.carecredit.com/vetmed/

Hope that helps.


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## Lada

I understand your frustration and, as someone who has had to take animals in for emergency care, I can sympathize. But, honestly, what is your solution? You took your animal in for emergent care and the cost never even entered your mind? I find that hard to believe. My daughter recently had to go to the er, then be transferred to a children's hospital 2 hours away. They offered me a ride in an ambulance...which I declined because of the cost. 

I've taken animals in for emergent care and have always received an estimate up front. And, I've always had to sign that I would pay the bill in full. You stated yourself that you can't even agree to a payment plan. So, what is the vet supposed to do? Treat your animal and release it with no guarantee that they'll even ever see another penny from you? That just doesn't seem reasonable. 

It seems what you want to do is to have them treat and release your animal, you don't pay anything and don't agree to a payment plan, so they only have your word that you'll pay "a little here and a little there" until it's paid off. It would be nice if we still lived in a world where we could trade medical care for chickens, but we don't. The vet has to stay open or you'll have no place to take your critters. And, to stay open, they have to get paid in a timely fashion. I'm sure it's not personal, it's just what they have to do to keep the doors open.


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## frogmammy

If she had a *history* with this vet, it might have made a difference. One good reason to have "your" own vet that you go to on a regular/semi-regular basis. As far as this vet knows, you came in with a dog that needed emergency treatment, no money for payment, and a sob story.

Mon


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## mekasmom

I would tell the vet that you will sign a payment agreement, but if they don't return the dog you will go to the police and report it stolen. They cannot take a dog as collateral just to be destroyed if you don't have money. If the vet tries to be nasty, go to the police, Call your congressmen, write editorials to the newspaper, etc. Make as much noise as possible. 
As the last possible option offer them post dated checks of regular payments. You could stop payment on them if necessary.
This is very unprofessional behavior on the part of the vet. I cannot even fathom someone around here acting that way. If someone comes in with an Emergency, and they cannot pay for it, then I have seen vets offer to euth the animal for free or else offer to call the rescues to see if they would adopt the animal and pick up the bill. But I have never heard of a vet stealing a dog.


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## Lazy J

This should put the $310 bill into perspective for you all.

I just asked my Veterinarian wife what her emergency clinic charges. 

Initial Consult and Exam $100
Two view radiographs $215
Bloodwork (CBC, 12 test chem panel) $190
Complete Abcominal Ultrasound $250

So for the diagnosis ONLY, NOT including surgery, would be $755.

The abdominal exploratory surgery would be $1,700 to $3,000 depending on how extensive the damage was inside the dog.

So the bottomline is that $310 for your dog's surgery is a STEAL. Sell something, borrow some money, do something to get your dog.

Jim


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## Lada

mekasmom said:


> I have never heard of a vet stealing a dog.


The dog wasn't "stolen" if she signed something agreeing that the animal wasn't to be released until payment was made. I don't know if she stated whether or not she did sign anything.



> As the last possible option offer them post dated checks of regular payments. You could stop payment on them if necessary.


I can't believe you made the above statement and then called the vet unprofessional two sentences later. Probably this mindset is WHY the vet has had to adopt their current policy.


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## Lazy J

mekasmom said:


> As the last possible option offer them post dated checks of regular payments. You could stop payment on them if necessary.


I wonder what the Vet Tech's and Receptionists reaction would be if the Veterinarian asked to "post date" their weekly paycheck?


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## where I want to

This is a catch 22 situation- every day he stays at the vet, his bill gets higher and means it's less likely to get paid. 
But an injuried dog is no collateral at all. All he has is your heart strings as collateral.
If you farm, can you pay him in produce? Do you have a piece of jewelry or something that he can hold? 
I can't believe that the doctor would prefer to have an injured dog and the right to sue you rather than almost anything else. 
Can you find someone to "co-sign" for the dog? And then arrange a payment plan? 
If I could, I would start giving him money, no matter how small to show you are interested in settleing your debt with him.


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## thequeensblessing

When my Pyr broke her leg a few years ago, it cost us over $800.00 by the time all was said and done. I used a vet well known by me. I was able to pay it all off at one time when I picked up my dog after surgery, however had I needed to make payments, I could have worked it out, only because the vet and I had a pre-existing business relationship. I also asked up front what the high end of costs would be. They said about a grand. It came in a couple hundred below that.
I've also had an Afghan Hound who needed surgery, and we worked out a payment plan BEFORE surgery.
My daughter, on the other hand, had a pup with parvo, and she had to pay her bill ($400.00) up in full before they'd release the pup back to her. She borrowed the money from me, and paid me back over the next month.


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## GeorgiaGirl

You never know, you may have friends on here that 
would send in 20.00 straight to the vet to help out. I 
know I would. My mini-dachshund had to have back 
surgery years ago (or be paralyzed) and I thought I 
would simply die! I did the "care credit" thing also.
Her operation was 2200.00  I am extremely close to
my pets. They do a lot for me and never say a word


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## whatrset

Minelson said:


> Wow....I'm glad I live here. The vet I work at has nothing like this. No written estimates, nothing needs to be signed or paid in full before pets are released. We have very few problems with non-payment...we have some people paying off and we have had some bounced checks...very few. Maybe because the vet is so big hearted no one wants to rip him off.


Wow, Same here. I would never think of ripping off my vet, and she is VERY flexible on payment if you sit down with her. We paid off our last C-section over 12 months. And, I know a couple of folks who worked off their debt at her farm at minimum wage until it was covered. I could never be a VET. Hard work, 24 hour call (to the neighbors :lol), and all the hassle.


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## GeorgiaGirl

Wow, while I was writing , I think everyone else was too! 
It appears that you posted the price already. Sorry.


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## Peace n Quiet

Whether the OP got a good deal or not isn't really the point, is it? Finding a way to get her companion back is...


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## Tirzah

I am so sorry and hope your dog is on his way for healing.

I was also going to suggest Care Credit.

Here's a link:

http://carecredit.com/apply/index.html

I hope things work out for you and I am praying for you!


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## Lada

Peace n Quiet said:


> Whether the OP got a good deal or not isn't really the point, is it? Finding a way to get her companion back is...


You are right. I'm just not seeing anything from the OP stating what she has done to rectify the situation. The other posters have hit the nail on the head that an injured dog is really no collateral at all, and the op even stated the vet told her she needed payment OR collateral. It would seem from those two facts that if she went into the vet's office with a gallon of goat milk, $20 and her computer, that the vet would probably give her the dog back. The vet just needs SOMETHING to show that the op is making an effort and from what I've read, she's not getting it.


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## Our Little Farm

Went and had a look at your blog, it mentioned you would not be getting rent money this month from someone...so does that mean you have a second house? Could you not use that as collatoral? Go to your bank if needed. What about jewelry? Guns etc that you could pawn? 
Have you asked if you could exhchange work for payment? Leave your car title? There MUST be something you can do.

Go talk, say you will do whatever you can, and REALLY want to pay. 

Do you have a history with this vet?


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## clovis

I see both sides of this issue too.

A few years ago, I met a woman that loved horses. She owes bills to every large animal vet in the metro area. Her credit worthiness to the area vets is so bad that no one will treat her animals.

This woman thinks it is fine, and says "they overcharge anyway."

In my opinion, the woman in question is a thief. It is no different than stealing. She's stolen from the vets, not only of their time and expertise, but also of their supplies and overhead.

None of this gets your dog back. It is just simply a gripe I have about that woman. 

Have you tried to work something out with the vet???? What is he/she saying???


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## arabian knight

For sure as that 310 dollars is so cheap, that when paid it is like stealing because of what the vet did and is hardly one cent on the whole deal. What has the vet got to gain in holding the dog? The Bill to be paid, that is what the vet has to gain. Nothing else as the profit was no minimal on the dog, and want to get paid.


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## thaiblue12

Like heck I would give my computer to my vet as collateral. What is she running some type of pawn shop? My name, address, social and a signed form stating I will pay should be good enough. Since when do vets ask for collateral? That is just weird and wrong. Also the vet is charging daily to what end? To force her into doing something she cannot or does not want to do so they can get their money?

I have had the same vet for over 9 years now. He is a bit brash when you first meet him but he is good and he does not rip you off. Alot of vet's here charge you for the office fee and shots. He just charges for shots and does the exam for free. So how come he is still in business if the others are barely making it due to such high overhead? Yes it is a business and I expect them to make money and etc but they do not have to charge you outrageous fees or suggest alot of uneeded procedures. I went through alot of those types of vets to find this one and he is a keeper. He never tried to get me to do something I do not want to, or that is not needed. 

My large animal vet had known me for about a year when I had an emergency come up, on Sunday of course and I had paid the bills up to then in full. So here comes a $451 bill and I paid it over time. They never had me sign something that stated they would keep my goat till I got it paid or that they would send her off to the sale barn blah blah. I took her home the next day and made 3 monthly payments and got it taken care of. 

This vet knows times are tough and can be worse for a single mom yet she wants collateral? She wants to hold the pet hostage till she gets her money? It seems like bad business to me. I for one would never use her again, let alone scrub her cages and I certainly would not recommend her to anyone. I recommend mine so much he has gotten quite a bit of business from me. I get nothing in return for it. 

To some it is like holding their child hostage. What happens if you could not pay the emergency room bill right there and then, would they keep your kid till it got paid? 
How about if they insisted you hand over your car till you paid a certain bill, how would you get to work, etc if they were holding your transportation/livelyhood hostage? It just seems wrong they way this vet is going about it. 

Since I read the other responses that say she is not apart of Care Credit and you cannot use it to pay her, can you ask her if she would join it so she can in fact get the money? If she refuses ask her why. If it is because of some fees, if it is not alot or very high have her tack it onto your bill. If it is for some mundane reason, yet another one for you not to return there. 

Good Luck I hope you get your dog back.


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## Oggie

I would leave one of my children at the vet and take the dog home.

Either that, or you could leave about 3,540,397 cats as collateral, but most vets think that dogs are far more valuable than that.


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## NickieL

ER vets get burned a lot. They do this in this area as well, it's pretty standard. Sorry they have your dog. At the ER vets around here there is a paper I had to sign each time that clearly stated if I could not come up with payment they would hole the critter.  Might have to pawn something to get the cash. Thats a pain, buy hey it's your best friend and he needs to be home. Things can be replaced but a good dog can;t. My vet has a program where you can give them money ahead of time, in case of an emergency the money will be there. He does not charge a lot and a lot of my visits to him are very low cost. I went through a lot of vets untill I found one that clearly loved his patients AND was cost friendly.


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## arabian knight

Times do not have to be bad at all for vets to take colorectal in lieu of pay.
Way back in 1998, now times were pretty dern good then. My friend worked for a vet as a vet tech. That vet office was ran just like The Mayo Clinic~!!!
A specialist for any type of treatment.
And even before a doc could even look at your animal you had to make a 100 dollar deposit of one form or another. And even then they were taking TV's stereos cameras whatever would cover the cost~!.
So things do not have to be bad for a vet office to ask for and demand colorectal to pay the bill. Or the animal either wasn't treated or not returned until the bill was paid for or a arrangement made prior to treatment. And besides it COSTS the vet clinic to KEEP the animal, Feed Care for etc. It COSTS the clinic to pay its help to care for said "kept" animals. The are not "making" money on the deal at all, just want to get paid for services rendered that is all.


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## Our Little Farm

Take any items you have to a pawn shop, then go to the vet and pay whatever you got. 

I must admit, I find this whole thread very strange.


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## Jan Doling

Take pics of some jewelry, write up a payment contract using said jewelry as collateral, take it all to the vet and have her sign the contract (have her also sign the pics of the jewelry. You keep the pics and a copy of the contract. She keeps copies of the pics, the jewlery, and the contract.) Then pay as you can and redeem the jewelry afterwards. Or take the jewelry to a pawnshop (but I think you have only 30 days to redeem it there).

Suck it up and do whatever it takes to get the dog home today.


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## Minelson

Great post Thaiblue! Especially the part where you point out that your vet is still in business even though he doesn't charge through the nose, have you sign anything, run unnecessary tests. Where I work is the same way and I know our vet is not in it to get rich...he loves animals and will do what is best for the animal. Holding it hostage is not in the animals best interest at all. We want all pets to get home asap! Like I said in the earlier post...we just don't have a big problem with accounts receivable. And we have a booming business that is making a profit...even though the vet does A LOT for free. I am wondering about the business practices of these vets that have to get a signature before treatment...maybe they should look at their business practices and pricing and ask themselves why they became a vet in the first place. Many times we have someone running through our door with a dog in their arms that has been hit by a car or something...NEVER would we stop to ask who they are, how they are going to pay, figure out costs before treatment. The dog is stabilized first and then there would be discussion on what avenue to take and that is when the subject of cost would come up naturally. We would never refuse treatment especially for someone who is willing to make payments. I wish I knew if with holding a pet is legal or not in the state the op resides.


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## Minelson

Oggie said:


> I would leave one of my children at the vet and take the dog home.
> /QUOTE]
> 
> LOL Oggie...I would do the same thing if I had children. Since I don't, I guess I would have to leave my hubby..:heh:


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## PAcountry

In most States pets are considered property just like a house or a car. I know from working in the animal industry that it is legal to hold a pet until payment is made or pet is surrendered. It really sucks this is happening to you. I know the love of a pet can be right up there with your family. Maybe you will be able to think of someway to get him back.


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## Harry Chickpea

"At the ER vets around here there is a paper I had to sign each time that clearly stated if I could not come up with payment they would hole the critter."

That is a little extreme, doncha think? 

"Times do not have to be bad at all for vets to take colorectal in lieu of pay."

Ummm... do vets have a kink I don't know about?

"I would leave one of my children at the vet and take the dog home."

Hmmm... that gets close to the wisdom of Solomon. Cut the dog in half. Give half to the vet. 

We are getting into the dog days of summer a little early this year.


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## NickieL

:bow::hysterical:


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## dezingg

I'd be upset if they kept my pet too. But the vet is just trying to protect themselves from losing money. Once you get your dog back, they have no assurance that you will pay.

A friend has irregular income too. It is extremely hard to work out extended payment agreements when you can't state that you will be able to make regular payments.

I don't see how going to the police or the media or anyone else will help the situation if you can't convince the vet that they will be paid in a timely manner.

Sorry that you are going through this ...


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## triplejmom

Shygal said:


> 310 is CHEAP for an emergency and all they did. I know that doesnt help you get the money but it could have been far far more expensive


If your broke or money is tight $310.00 may as well be $3010.00..Hopefully you can work it out.


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## bruce2288

Go to your bank, get a personal loan, pay off the vet. The banks job is to loan money not the vets, she did her job, took care of your dog. Would you loan $300 dollars to a stranger if he promised to pay in payments over 8 weeks?


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## JasoninMN

> Go to your bank, get a personal loan, pay off the vet. The banks job is to loan money not the vets, she did her job, took care of your dog. Would you loan $300 dollars to a stranger if he promised to pay in payments over 8 weeks?


The 100th post and we have a winner! Best idea yet.


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## Stephen in SOKY

In reading her post of 5/12 it appears she doesn't sell on credit. Sorry I can't seem to copy her post here.


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## Lazy J

Changed my mind on that one.


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## HermitJohn

Lazy J said:


> This should put the $310 bill into perspective for you all.
> 
> I just asked my Veterinarian wife what her emergency clinic charges.
> 
> Initial Consult and Exam $100
> Two view radiographs $215
> Bloodwork (CBC, 12 test chem panel) $190
> Complete Abcominal Ultrasound $250
> 
> So for the diagnosis ONLY, NOT including surgery, would be $755.
> 
> The abdominal exploratory surgery would be $1,700 to $3,000 depending on how extensive the damage was inside the dog.
> 
> So the bottomline is that $310 for your dog's surgery is a STEAL. Sell something, borrow some money, do something to get your dog.
> 
> Jim


Do you live in the Hills? Beverley Hills, that is, swimmin pools, movie stars... 

Personally if somebody only wants to treat high dollar animals for high dollar fees, then they should be upfront about it, even in their name. Maybe "Shi_zues are US" or "Pekonese Pediatrist" or something.

There is a reason vets tend to specialize in small animal only practice, they are looking for people with emotional attachment to pets with deep pockets to pay whatever it costs to save "Fluffy".

A rational farmer would never pay the kind of exhorbitant fees you mention above unless it was some prize stud horse that brought in a big income for them or something. They would just put down any common production animal themselves with a bullet and the vet would never get close to it and would have to go hungry. Cause it comes down that if you consider an animal economic property only, you dont pay more to save it than its economically worth. Yep, its that simple.


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## mekasmom

Lazy J said:


> I wonder what the Vet Tech's and Receptionists reaction would be if the Veterinarian asked to "post date" their weekly paycheck?


The vet I worked for did that all the time for payment plans. Most do. They don't have to go through the cost of collection if they have post dated checks in hand because the States Atty will force the client to pay if they bounce.


I cannot imagine how heartless this office is, if they refuse to release a dog or work out a payment plan.


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## Minelson

HermitJohn said:


> There is a reason vets tend to specialize in small animal only practice, they are looking for people with emotional attachment to pets with deep pockets to pay whatever it costs to save "Fluffy".


This is not the case where I work at all. Believe it or not there are small animal vets out there who have a passion to heal pets and follow that passion for personal fulfillment, contribution to the community and to earn a modest living. Those prices, to me, are insane...but I guess it depends on your location. The $310 even sounds high to me for what was done. It would have been $100-$150 where I work. There would not have been Xrays or ultra sounds done. It would have been anesthesia, clean the wound, add a drain. Removal of the drain would be included in the initial cost as part of the procedure. Being in farmland we get crazy injuries like this all the time. Bloodwork would be $40. Initial consult would be $25 and I doubt we would even charge that.


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## whatrset

I know that would have been under $200 bucks with my vet. But she knows that It is get what you can or I'd try to fix it myself. I have sewn up many a dog, and sheep in my lifetime. Even sewed up one for my vets grandmother while she was away at Vet School. lol


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## NickieL

When I was searching out vets, I have noticed a HUGE diffrence in price and additude with vets...the more rurel and small town vets around here seem to charge A LOT less and have a better additude. the vets I checked out while still in the city were AWEFUL, quite snooty concering "mutts" and charged over twice as much for the same things, like SHOTS and deworming. They would alos only take dogs n cats. The climic I go to now has 4 vets working there. One is a behavorist that sees Brandi dog. And they take other animals as well, big or little.


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## Lada

I'm still waiting for the post stating what exactly the op has done to attempt to render payment for a service she received. These points people are making are all moot. She can't complain about the cost after everything's done. And, anyway, the price seems reasonable to me and I do deal with rural vets who don't charge an arm and a leg. I'm wondering what the solution is for the vet himself? Just supposed to release the animal on the "good word" of a total stranger that she will pay him? I just don't see how people on here can actually believe that is the answer. 

If she'd come on here and said...I've agreed to pay the vet $50 a week, or I offered to give him the title to my car, or I've gone to the pawn shop and hocked my wedding ring or...whatever. She hasn't. All she's said is...the vet has my dog, and they won't give him back until I pay or offer collateral. Has she paid ANYTHING toward the treatment? Or did she just expect to get something for nothing? Sorry, I don't care if you're a homesteading today member or not...that's just not how the world works.


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## JanS

I'm so sorry you're going through this. I went through a bad time with one of our cats, as my Facebook friends from HT know. Here's how our vet handles it: 

I was given a very clear estimate with a range of treatment payments. The lower end was if everything went well (one day of care, one dose of medicine etc.) and the upper end was the price if he needed to be in for four days. Besides that, the price of each item was spelled out (so I would know to say yes or no if they called saying he needed, say, another shot). We went over what I was comfortable with and if there was any change (for instance, further heart tests before surgery) I was called for approval. To give an example, I said yes to a blood transfusion, no to the extra heart test.

The lower estimate was the amount I had to pay before leaving the cat there for surgery. I knew I'd have to pay the rest before picking him up but there were no surprises, I had the estimate and they called if anything else was needed.

I wish your vet had been that clear. A vet you use regularly might have set up a payment plan. Otherwise you would have had to do what I did....make a choice right then as to whether your pet was going to live or die. Hard? Yes. Unfair? Not from the vet's point of view. You can't undo surgery if someone doesn't pay. 

Good luck to you. I don't see any way out of this if you can't raise the money somehow.


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## Lazy J

HermitJohn said:


> Do you live in the Hills? Beverley Hills, that is, swimmin pools, movie stars...
> 
> Personally if somebody only wants to treat high dollar animals for high dollar fees, then they should be upfront about it, even in their name. Maybe "Shi_zues are US" or "Pekonese Pediatrist" or something.
> 
> There is a reason vets tend to specialize in small animal only practice, they are looking for people with emotional attachment to pets with deep pockets to pay whatever it costs to save "Fluffy".
> 
> A rational farmer would never pay the kind of exhorbitant fees you mention above unless it was some prize stud horse that brought in a big income for them or something. They would just put down any common production animal themselves with a bullet and the vet would never get close to it and would have to go hungry. Cause it comes down that if you consider an animal economic property only, you dont pay more to save it than its economically worth. Yep, its that simple.


Small metropolitan area. The clinic has many of the pieces of equipment the typical veterinarian doesn't have and can't justify the cost.


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## belladulcinea

So my question is, what does the vet do with the animal now? Keep it locked up in a cage, feed it or does it get put down? And if that is what happens I would make sure the vet didn't get another patient from then on!

I know that it is a business! My dh barters computer service with ours. I will tell you though that the vet has showed up on our doorstep at or later than 10:00 at night with a computer that has gone down, but hesitated about meeting us at the office for an emergency call we made 1 time for Bella when she'd had a seizure at about 8:00 at night. And we had just been in that day to fix their printer problems and download some updates for his business software. Ummmm no.:hand: Computers can wait, living creatures can't.


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## JasoninMN

I think the real problem lies in the fact that Americans are so used to getting hand outs and bails outs that they just can't come to terms with the fact that someone isn't going to pick up their vet bills for them. Sorry, they are dogs not humans and can be refused medical treatment as well. I have worked with a lot of different vets, everyone one of them has been ripped off from people not paying the bill they promised too in a couple weeks. I see no reason why they would take someone word that they will come back and pay. I don;t work for free either. I know if my dog was injured and I could not afford it and wanted to save it. I would be at the bank getting a loan, if that did not work I would be looking for odd jobs to raise the money, mowing grass, washing cars, painting, etc or selling something of mine. Worse case scenario I would sign the dog over if they agreed to find it a good home. What I would not do is look for a hand out from someone else or the vet to cover my costs. I guess I am a rare breed. Its a sad situation but there are alternatives, $310 is not a large amount to come up with. You know I have never seen a person give up drinking or smoking to save their pet or heck even to give the money to their kids. Tells you where most peoples priorities really are. Oh I bet I get flamed.


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## Lazy J

Here is the "Financial Responsibility Statement" for the Veterinary Hospital where my wife is an associate:


_Payment Policy 

For all outpatient treatment, we require full payment at the time that services are rendered. For your convenience, we accept Visa, MasterCard, Discover, cash and personal checks. 



If your pet is hospitalized for monitoring, diagnostics, or procedures, you will receive a detailed estimate of the hospital stay. You will be asked to sign a consent form allowing CLINIC to begin treating your pet. A detailed treatment plan will estimate your pet's needs at least for the initial first 24 hours. A deposit of at least half of the detailed treatment plan is required prior to hospitalization. You must be 18 years of age to authorize treatment. Due to the unexpected circumstance of many emergency and critical care cases as well as additional cost required for advanced diagnostics, financial assistance may be necessary. Many clients are able to discuss treatment options with family members and friends and obtain financial help. We do accept Care Credit cards. These can be applied for in hospital, or online at carecredit.com​_


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## WhiteWillow

I don't know if its been offered but I would be happy to donate (not loan) half of the bill. I could send the money via PayPal. Just let me know.


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## farmmom

I worked for a vet for a while that had the policy of holding the animal until payment or adequate payment arrangements were met. There was also a time limit of 2 weeks to accomplish this. After 2 weeks, the animal became clinic property and was found a new home. It was all in writing and signed by the owner at the time of treatment. In the 10+ years I was with him, we only had to find homes for 2 or 3 animals.

I also was shown why he had this policy. He had a huge folder full of unpaid bills. Some were as little as $50 and some were over $1000.


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## Lada

JasoninMN said:


> I think the real problem lies in the fact that Americans are so used to getting hand outs and bails outs that they just can't come to terms with the fact that someone isn't going to pick up their vet bills for them. Sorry, they are dogs not humans and can be refused medical treatment as well. I have worked with a lot of different vets, everyone one of them has been ripped off from people not paying the bill they promised too in a couple weeks. I see no reason why they would take someone word that they will come back and pay. I don;t work for free either. I know if my dog was injured and I could not afford it and wanted to save it. I would be at the bank getting a loan, if that did not work I would be looking for odd jobs to raise the money, mowing grass, washing cars, painting, etc or selling something of mine. Worse case scenario I would sign the dog over if they agreed to find it a good home. What I would not do is look for a hand out from someone else or the vet to cover my costs. I guess I am a rare breed. Its a sad situation but there are alternatives, $310 is not a large amount to come up with. You know I have never seen a person give up drinking or smoking to save their pet or heck even to give the money to their kids. Tells you where most peoples priorities really are. Oh I bet I get flamed.


:clap:

I wonder if the people complaining would be ok with working all day and then being told they would get paid "a little here and a little there".


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## tamsam

I think every vet and doctor's office I have been in has a sign that states payment is required at time of service unless prior arrangements have been made. I ran my business for years and even back then people would tell you to fix their car and then want it for nothing. Sorry but promises doesn't pay the bills. As others has said what has the OP done to try working something out with the vet. I have taken car titles and such to hold until bills were paid but on a timely scale. I hope you get it worked out. Sam


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## RiverPines

Pawn shop
Rummage sale
Craigslist

Start selling your stuff! 
You have furniture, cloths, trinkets, gadgets, all sorts of stuff.

Look for odds jobs. Go cut grass for people.

There are ways to get up the money if it means so much.

Whats more important, your stuff or your dog?

I dont blame the vet.
Pet owners have to be responsible and do what they need to care for their charges, or dont have the pets in the first place.

Heck the vet asked for collateral if you cant pay right now. Got a vehicle you can always put a lean on the title if your desperate!
Ask the vet if you can use your car for title collateral.
Ask your bank for the money with your cars title!


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## NickieL

I wish hillside would come back and give an update.


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## Minelson

But remember there is a poor dog involved here who needs to be home so he can heal. If this Vet has had so many problems getting paid in the past then I think she should have the owner sign an agreement and release the dog. If the owner does not adhere to the agreement then the Vet should take her to court. But the dog should not have to stay there.


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## RiverPines

Minelson said:


> But remember there is a poor dog involved here who needs to be home so he can heal. If this Vet has had so many problems getting paid in the past then I think she should have the owner sign an agreement and release the dog. If the owner does not adhere to the agreement then the Vet should take her to court. But the dog should not have to stay there.


The dog isnt at the pound, its at the vet and most likely in good hands since they took care of its injuries. I think while its there it will continue to heal.
Vets deal with a lot worse cases and help pets get through it.

The vet has every right to demand payment by holding the property and pets are legally property. 
You cant get a car fixed without paying and its the same for an animal.
They are both legally property.
If they were not property they would never be able to be bought or sold or bartered.


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## Lada

Minelson said:


> But remember there is a poor dog involved here who needs to be home so he can heal. If this Vet has had so many problems getting paid in the past then I think she should have the owner sign an agreement and release the dog. If the owner does not adhere to the agreement then the Vet should take her to court. But the dog should not have to stay there.


I'm more concerned about Hillside's reaction to her dog being there. You are right, he needs to be home to heal. I'm sure he's more than fine at the vet's, but it's not home. Which is why, were it MY dog, I'd be doing whatever I could to get him back. Selling stuff, doing odd jobs or taking out loans.


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## Minelson

RiverPines said:


> The dog isnt at the pound, its at the vet and most likely in good hands since they took care of its injuries. I think while its there it will continue to heal.
> Vets deal with a lot worse cases and help pets get through it.
> 
> The vet has every right to demand payment by holding the property and pets are legally property.
> You cant get a car fixed without paying and its the same for an animal.
> They are both legally property.
> If they were not property they would never be able to be bought or sold or bartered.


Being at the vet is a lot like being at the pound. It's VERY noisy (especially if the vet does boarding too) With this kind of injury the dog would do better at home with his own food and around his own stuff and people he knows. It would be a different story if he was needing IV fluids or something that needed monitoring by a pro. Right now he is just having his basic needs met with little attention because it's just too busy. He probably doesn't get out to go potty as much as he is used to...then he has to go on himself and that is no good either. I'm sorry...I disagree. The dog should be home in this situation.


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## RiverPines

I didnt say its not better at home but the dog isnt going to not heal just because its at the vet.

Home is better but when home isnt available, the vet isnt the worse place.


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## 7thswan

What a mess, I feel for you.


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## mnn2501

So, will we get an update?


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## Minelson

RiverPines said:


> Home is better but when home isnt available, the vet isnt the worse place.


I wonder what the dog would say about that!


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## sidepasser

My vet that I have used for 22 years straight is great. We have an understanding: I won't ask him to loan me money and he will promptly treat all my animals.

Vets have to go to veterinary school just like human doctors and that costs a lot of money. They also have liability insurance and medical malpractice insurance, yet they get no benefit of having a slew of insurance companies to bill (sometimes someone will have ins. on a horse for colic surgery, BUT the owner pays first and gets reimbursement from the ins. company).

I have never ran a tab with my vet because I have a "pet emergency fund" and if the cost of the procedure exceeds what is in the fund, the doc and I discuss it first, then decide on what can be done as a priority and do that till the money is used up.
I have used a credit card before and have sold a horse to pay for one that needed extensive work..but never have I asked my vet to carry my bills on the payment plan.

By not doing so, I get a discounted fee on EVERY trip he makes to the farm. It has saved me hundreds of dollars over the years. He doesn't have to bill me which saves him a lot of cash as well.

I can't understand why people think vets should "carry them" as most vets I know make very little after expenses are paid (overhead, ins., payroll, truck ins. and payments, supplies, etc.). 

I expect my vet to make a decent living just as I do otherwise he may shut up the clinic and retire which would be a very, very bad thing as he is the closest vet to my farm. The others would charge more for a trip charge than the meds/procedures would likely cost. 

How about selling something, pawn the car title, etc.?


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## KimTN

Hi,
I'm a lurker here and just can't keep my mouth shut this time. I have set here and read all of these posts. I have noticed one thing. All of you guys have been pumping out ideas and this lady with the impounded dog keeps skirting the question about what she has done to pay this vet. I seriously doubt that she doesn't have anything of value at all to hand over to this vet to work things out. She has avoided answering that question several times. Also, there may be a very good reason that this vet is playing hard ball. I have been in several situations where people owed me money and they cried that I was playing hard ball with them. They , of course, were so honest and good. NOT!!! You also have to ask yourself why she didn't have a relationship with a vet already. She has a lot of animals. Maybe I'm just being jugemental, but it is because she has failed to answer some key questions about her situation.


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## JanS

Kim, there may be times I would agree with you but this time the OP gets my benefit of the doubt. She just tried to pick the animal up yesterday and the accident was the day before. Hopefully she is busy today trying to work things out rather than wasting time posting here.


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## KimTN

I'm just trying to point out that in all of her posts, she has avoided answering people's questions about giving the vet some collateral. She has had time to post many times. I just find this to be odd. There is one person that has posed that question to her several times and she never even mentions this in her posts.


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## thaiblue12

JasoninMN said:


> I think the real problem lies in the fact that Americans are so used to getting hand outs and bails outs that they just can't come to terms with the fact that someone isn't going to pick up their vet bills for them..... Oh I bet I get flamed.


I am not going to flame you but I am going to disagree with you  You and a few others are bashing her and acting like she is trying to get out of paying the bill. No where did she state that she was not going to pay, or that someone else should pay it for her. She never asked for money either. 

Emergencies happen and sometimes you do not have the funds for it. Banks are not going to loan her money. They are so anti-loan now why would they bother with a $310 vet bill to a single mom with no steady income? Payday loans are the worse thing a person can do but she would need a paycheck in order to get one. 

Why does she have to sell any and everything she can get her hands on, if the vet would be willing to sign up for Credit Care, or take payments?? Why does she not realize this was an emergency occurance and the fund are not readily available and accept Care Credit or payments. Maybe if she had signed up for it more of her customers would be able to pay her when emergencies do strike. 

Lada: "I'm still waiting for the post stating what exactly the op has done to attempt to render payment for a service she received."
Why does she have to give the title to her car or explain what she has or has not done to repay the vet. It is not any of your business. She came on here upset, wondering about her dog and if it was legal or not to keep her dog. She was not asking on how to skip out on the bill, or asking you for money. It is not your place to find out what she has or has not done to pay her bill. 

Poop happens and sometimes it takes you a bit to come up with the money. Not all of us have great paying jobs or relatives to borrow from. She did the right thing by her dog and took him to the vet, she wants to pay her bill, stop assuming cause you know what they say about that, lol


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## Dandish

^^^^^^^^^Yay Thaiblue12


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## Emmy D

thaiblue12 said:


> Banks are not going to loan her money. They are so anti-loan now why would they bother with a $310 vet bill to a single mom with no steady income?


I am with Jason on this one, single Mom yes, but she has two homes, one is a rental property...telling us the bank is NOT going to loan her any money, and for that matter a small sum like $300, is CRAZY...I don't have a job I do the same thing she does sell produce and eggs, but I own (free and clear) a house and 120 acres and the bank will loan me pretty much any amount I want, and I know this because I ask them!! I hope she gets Ash back, but I also hope she pays the bill or gives the vet some collateral!

Emmy


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## Emmy D

thaiblue12 said:


> Why does she have to sell any and everything she can get her hands on, if the vet would be willing to sign up for Credit Care, or take payments?? Why does she not realize this was an emergency occurance and the fund are not readily available and accept Care Credit or payments. Maybe if she had signed up for it more of her customers would be able to pay her when emergencies do strike.


Ummm, I am not sure why you think the VET should jump through hoops for her and her dog?? Emergencies happen every day, so the vet should just let every person with an emergency walk out without paying?

Emmy


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## WhiteWillow

OP - If you are still following this please PM me so that I may help you with the bill. I tried PM'ing you but it said you don't accept messages.


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## Minelson

WhiteWillow said:


> OP - If you are still following this please PM me so that I may help you with the bill. I tried PM'ing you but it said you don't accept messages.


What a kind person you are :clap:


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## HillsideWayCSA

I just finished reading all the post since last night. That's a long read! I have two houses? Wow, where's my second residence? That'd be great. No the rent was from a spare room in my own house. Hard times call for thinking outside the box so I had my spare room rented out. Unfortunately I've never been a person with lots of jewelry either. In fact the tv and furniture in my house were hand me downs. Yes I work hard. No I wasn't going to rip the person off. With my business most my money comes in the beginning of the year, I work as a CSA then I get a little scrap cash from milk and eggs until I start selling turkeys and geese for the holidays. So even though I can pay a mortgage and bills these months in between are very tight. Since I grow almost all my own food I don't have a need for a lot of cashflow only what I need to put in my gas tank. While it's nice to have emergency funds, which I normally do I have a 2yr old who's been a handful of medical problems for the past two years and that emergency fund has been run dry. Times have been hard. But I still pay my bills. I have a farm vet who makes regular visits to take care of my livestock and sends me a bill. Yes, I expected a bill from the vet who treated my dog, just like I expect a bill from the vet who treats my livestock. What I was NEVER told was that I had to pay the whole fee upfront. I will admit that being in an emergency I didn't stop to ask but ya know I call that human error. I'm use to working with people who send me a bill and I pay them as I can. As farmers I bet some of you can understand that. I don't normally use the vet that I took the dog too, because like alot of you if it's not life threatening I treat my own animals. I've patched up this dog before, given antibiotics and cleaned wounds but in the case that the wound was so long and deep I didn't trust my ability. 

I'm not crying victim. I was crying because I never in a million years expected anything like this. It's not that I wasn't willing to pay the bill or make arrangements or whatever but when I was told I couldn't have my dog back until the bill was paid it knocked me for a loop. I'm sure anyone in my situation would have been the same. 

The vet added $50 onto the bill for keeping my dog last night. I took him a bag of his food today and some money to put down on his bill only to find out that his bill was even more and that it would keep rising $50 every day till I paid it. That is far beyond asking for compensation. 

I did get my dog back. And I did pay the bill in full. Plus the $50 they added on for keeping him for no good reason other than I didn't have time to get my head straight to figure out the problem. 

Those who offered to help pay the bill. God bless you. I won't be needing any help but that shows some real character. Those who made me out to be looking for handouts or whatever, you don't know me so I won't judge you. 

I appreciate all the support and ideas. I apologize that it took this long to get back here to post but I do have a whole farm to run and two kids to take care of. I don't sit at my computer often so I got back when I could. 

I did check that carecredit but the vet I used wasn't listed so that wasn't an option. 

So the question is. What happens to the next person in my situation? They'd get a bill pilling up $50/day just because they're having a bad month? That doesn't seem right. Ya know? Even poor people should be able to have their pets taken care of in an emergency. I don't believe in getting hand outs but a little compassion instead of kicking a person while their down. Yea I know some people might not come through but how can you judge everyone? If someone knocked on my door and said they had no food I'd give them milk, eggs, cheese, chicken, garden, everything that I make. I run a business. I still grow for "plant a row" and donate to needy families. 

Anyways. Thanks ya'll! It's been a helluva week. I'm exhausted from the stress of it all. Things can only look up from here. My poor doggy is home. Where he shoulda been last night.


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## PAcountry

I am glad your puppy is home. I was worried about you all day. Get some rest and hope things get better form here on out!


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## HillsideWayCSA

http://unemployedhousewifeandmommy.blogspot.com/2010/07/ash-is-home.html if you wanna see the poor guy.


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## Emmy D

I am glad Ash is home with you and you found the money to get him out of hock...but the plain deal comes down to this, animals are not children (as much as we love them) and there is no "emergency" care that will be billed if you cant pay, like if you took your kids to the ER...so if you don't have the money on hand, savings set aside or a credit card to take care of an emergency with one of your pets you should not have pets!

Sorry, blunt, but true! I have had to make a choice between pets and food for myself...found them good homes and bought myself some Raman Noodles.

Emmy


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## Tiempo

I'm really glad you have him home.

IMO The vet should have made it completely clear up front what the payment expectations would be.


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## rb.

I'm glad you got your dog back, what a horrible situation.

The vet's practice of charging daily because the vet will not release the dog due to the bill not yet paid in full sounds illegal.


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## Minelson

Thank God he is home! I have been watching this thread all day (as you can see by all my posts lol) I can't wait to get to work tomorrow to discuss this situation with my co-workers and the vet. I am shocked by some of the comments made on this thread but it certainly filled me with a great sense of gratitude for the community I live in. WOW. I am so glad he is home...I would really like to know if this action by the vet was legal or not. I will find out what the law is here. I have some questions and tips for the after care of Ash...I will pm you  I am so sorry you had to go through such an ordeal.

ETA: Where I work we charge $8.00 a night for animals that need to stay. Jeepers.


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## Minelson

I see you don't accept pm's...So, I am just wondering if the vet gave you some anti-biotics to give to Ash and instructions on flushing the wound. Also, it is very easy to remove those drains. If you need help email me at minelson-at-alliancecom dot net.


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## toni48

I'm so glad Ash is home where he belongs. I love your blog.... Bless you.....


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## MARYDVM

I'm glad you were able to get your dog back. A situation like you described is bad for both client and clinic. Word gets around, and they may end up losing more business in the long run than the $300+ they collected. 

As to Care Credit - it costs us to accept it. There are fees, and they take a percentage of the payment just like a credit card. They also don't approve everyone who applies. About 75% of the people who ask to make payments to my clinic are turned down by Care Credit - because they didn't pay their bills somewhere else.

I once worked for a rural vet who billed his farm and pet owners when they didn't pay up front. Aside from all the accounting costs, when he closed his practice after 34 years, he had lost over $30,000 in unpaid fees that the nice people who swore they would pay someday never made good on.

We always present an estimate after the initial exam, that way we are only out the cost of the visit if people cannot afford our services. I've been screamed at, my techs have been cursed at, because "we should take care of someone's pet for free if we love animals". We let one woman have her aunt pay for her puppy's parvo treatment with a credit card over the phone. The aunt then turned around and charged it back, claiming fraudulent use of her card by her niece. We had no signature from the aunt, so the cc company refunded her money and we got stiffed the $250. At least the puppy lived.

Right now, I'd say the percentage of people asking to make payments runs about 40% honest folks down on their luck vs. 60% outright scammers. I can usually tell who's who by their attitude, and I'm much more likely to work out something with someone who seems sincere. Last week we had a new client come in with a lovable, purring, 15 year old wreck of a cat who had a massive tumor rotting out of his mouth. The lady was being treated for cancer herself, and couldn't afford our euthanasia fee. Instead of telling her to drop him off at our barbaric local Animal Control for a traumatic $15 euthanasia, I put her cat to sleep at no charge. 

I've lost track of the number of fees I've discounted or plain written off. But if I "took payments" from everyone who asked for it I would be out of business in less than a year. Every clinic has to strike a balance between business and compassion, and what works for one won't be the same as another clinic's policies.


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## Wags

Vet care is a LUXURY! As much as we love our animals or depend on them for our livelihood they are still animals and considered property under the law. When I had to have an emergency vet call out a month ago - I weighed the cost of replacing the animal vs the cost of the vet care. If the balance wouldn't have been in favor of saving the animal I would have had to put her down. 

And to expect a Vet to basically loan $300 to a total stranger is just nuts. Would you fill your tank with gas and then expect to be able to tell them you can't pay and just be allowed to drive off? That would be THEFT OF SERVICES and you could be charged with a crime if you did it.


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## Ed Norman

rb. said:


> The vet's practice of charging daily because the vet will not release the dog due to the bill not yet paid in full sounds illegal.


Once in the Philippines a customs officer in the airport kept our baby's passport until we went to another office and paid a leaving the country tax.


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## Minelson

Wags said:


> Would you fill your tank with gas and then expect to be able to tell them you can't pay and just be allowed to drive off? That would be THEFT OF SERVICES and you could be charged with a crime if you did it.


Where I live...yes! If I filled up my truck with gas and had forgotten my checkbook, I have no doubt that they would let me go home and get it. That's one gas station...the other gas station I have an account and they send me a bill every month that I pay. If I had an emergency and could not pay it I would explain the situation and they would cut me some slack. People take care of each other around here.


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## Lada

thaiblue12 said:


> Lada: "I'm still waiting for the post stating what exactly the op has done to attempt to render payment for a service she received."
> Why does she have to give the title to her car or explain what she has or has not done to repay the vet. It is not any of your business. She came on here upset, wondering about her dog and if it was legal or not to keep her dog. She was not asking on how to skip out on the bill, or asking you for money. It is not your place to find out what she has or has not done to pay her bill.


I love it when people post something on a public forum and then whine that it's none of my business when I give an opinion that they don't like. :cute:

There's no such thing as a free lunch...or free dog care. Just because you have pets doesn't mean that you're entitled to get them care and not pay for it. I snicker every time I read "poor people should be able to get their pets cared for too". Um, on what planet? Just because you have a pet means you should be able to take it to the vet and not expect to have to pay for it? Okay..... People who don't pay are just going to make the bills higher on those of us who do. I don't think we're getting the whole story here, but that's irrelevant at this point. I'm glad the OP's dog is home and I hope she'll take the necessary steps to be a more responsible pet owner in the future.


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## Sawmill Jim

Some poor people do make payments at the vet I have before . I think that is what the op was hoping to do :grumble: Wasn't wanting a hand out .

Me i'd had a pre vet chat with that vet :viking:


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## HillsideWayCSA

It seems crazy to me that people think that making payments is considered getting a free lunch. Since when does making payments on a big ticket make it a crime? My farm vet accepts payments, why wouldn't any other vet? Home depot accepts payments, so why shouldn't a vet? Tons of businesses accept payments. And after 10yrs of having a dog I'm spose to give him away because times are tight? That's just plain silly. You don't bail out the first time you're short on funds. It's not like I was on welfare and went out and bought a dog yesterday and now can't handle the fee. I have yet to deal with a business that wouldn't take payments, especially in a tight bind. And yes even a gas station will give you a gallon of gas in a pinch. 

I never once said I wouldn't pay. I never asked for a free ride. And making payments to a business is exactly what I expected. If everyone expect cash upfront only the rich would have everything they needed. Shoot even when I bought my first alpaca I made payments for two years on it. And no interest. When I went and bought my last truck after my car broke down and I couldn't come up with the cash to fix it, I made payments on it, that was just word of mouth, they didn't even make me go through a bank, I paid them directly. 

Since when is it unheard of to make payments?

The post about losing 30k over 34years... That sounds like a pretty successful business. Only $1,000 a year lost to people not making payments? I don't see any room for complaints there. I give away more than a grand of food every year if I took the time to add it up.


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## Sanza

I'd like to know the reason she didn't take the dog to her regular vet.....

Personally if I didn't have the extra money to pay for treatment for one of my pets I wouldn't even think about taking it in and I would take responsibility and SHOOT IT MYSELF to keep it from suffering. It's not a smart thing to expect a total stranger to do a service for you with nothing in return but a promise.


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## nancy237

That would PO me off in a big way.. Pets are not pawns to be help ransom for payment. He has been injured and needs to recover at home.

I would call the police at the very busiest part of the day and 
tell the police they have stolen your dog.. That is the way I see it.
Ask them to meet you there. 

I'd call the news and get my crying kids to explain how they stole their dog...

You can keep an object if someone needs to pay but not a living , breathing
pet. That is crazy. 

Can you imagine a hospital keeping Grandpa because his bill isn't paid...


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## Navotifarm

Holding a dog hostage and charging punitive extra fees ($50!) For doing so was cruel. Fortunately, Hillside was able to come up with the money to pay the bill and the blackmail charges also, but how likely is she to ever return to this vet? I sure would NOT. This vet needs to expand her awareness of public relations because the monetary cost to Hillside was one thing but the pain, anguish, stress and frustration caused Hillside was way out of context in "the healing arts."

Locally. I had a vet who was reasonable and fair and I always thought he was doing his best for my animals. He retired and sold his practice. I used to take my animals to the old vet for everything. Now the new vets charge an "examination fee" even though all I want (and can afford) is a simple rabies shot. Consequently, I take my dogs to the spca rabies clinics and I hold off going to the vet where with the caring (as demonstrated by his actions) I would have gone. The more the vet yank their customers around, the less profit they will have in the long run and perhaps the less innersatisfaction they will have in their chosen career which started out to be healing, didn't it? Hurting a patient's owner by gouging an extra $50 bucks is arbitrary and just plain mean. And no very intelligent as an on-going business practice because after treatment like that, why would a customer ever return for an encore?


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## SageLady

I am so so so HAPPY your dog is back home with you!! I am sorry if some here stepped on your toes. Some folks here can be pretty blunt and insensitive at times. All I know is I wanted your dog to be back home with you and so glad to hear that you were able to pay the bill and bring him home.

My vet does let me make payments, but we've been going to him for more than 30 years and we have a long history of paying our bills with him. He knows he will get paid from us, it just may take awhile. In other words, he trusts us. You didn't have a history with this vet so she had no way of knowing if you would pay the bill. So many folks don't pay their bills these days and the vet needs to make a living too. She didn't know if you were trustworthy or not, but still pretty harsh to keep someone's dog in my opinion. I'm sorry you had to go through this horrible experience! Give Ash a hug for me and a hug for you too!!


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## Cheribelle

$50.00 a night? You have Got to be kidding me. That is ridiculous, and just spiteful. Deliberatly adding to someone's anguish and stress. 
I am glad the issue was resovled, I do think the vet has every right to expect payment, but $50 a night is out and out extortion. 
So glad you were able to get the money together and bring him home.


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## Laura

I also do not understand why, if you have a regular farm vet who knows you as a person who pays your bills, you would take your dog to a vet you do not know, and who does not know you, and expect a total stranger to take your word that you're good for the money?

Thing is, stuff happens, and it usually happens when our pockets are empty. Credit is not an entitlement, it is something earned. It goes along with a good reputation. To expect small businesses, like most vet hospitals are, to extend credit to total strangers is very unreasonable. 

Ya'll may not like how this vet does business, but you must admit, the method certainly motivates pet owners to quickly pay their fees for services rendered.


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## Our Little Farm

Glad you found a way to pay the bill and get your dog back.


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## suzfromWi

If a human being was taken to the emergency room, would they fix them and then hold them for payment? This vet is being unreasonable...Dont even tell me that they dont charge enough to make up for a few that cannot pay...This WAS an emergency. Would the vet have let the dog die or suffer if he knew she couldn't pay? God where is the humanity?


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## NickieL

I'm glas Ash is home now. thank you for letting us know!


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## mekasmom

I am glad your dog is home. I personally would write an editorial to the newspaper telling others in your community about the experience you had with the coersion at that vet office. And like a previous poster said, word gets around. This office needs to see what others think about the heartlessness of them stealing a pet. 

That said, I am appalled by some of the nastiness shown on the boards. Are any of us so holy that we couldn't fall into the same issue if there were an emergency with our pet.


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## SunsetSonata

Well, frankly the vet's tactic worked. After you telling them you couldn't commit to any payment plan, somehow you managed to scrap up the funds in full. How did you go from not being able to commit to even monthly payments, to paying off the whole thing including the extra $50? Sounded pretty clear that you would not have done so if not for the vet being rightly afraid of being stiffed.

If I were you, I would have given them a few post-dated checks, the payment being in full but on a schedule you can handle. I would have also told them that if they attempted to cash them early, the checks would bounce and then NO one would be happy. And then you make the funds happen - just like you made the full payment happen all at once, but the scheduled payments probably would have been easier on you. 

Your vet had no way of knowing that you would have the funds, EVER, and they do get stiffed on a regular basis. They SHOULD have been upfront - if they weren't. Unfortunately your honesty set off big red flags for them. Believe it or not I am not unsympathetic, I too would have brought in the dog for treatment. But never would I have given the vet the message, please help my dog even though you're doing it for free until a time that it is convenient for me to pay, which will be at no time in the near future!


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## Navotifarm

As a former free lance court reporter who was several times called in to cover law cases or hearings on an emergency basis, did the work and delivered the transcripts in good faith and then the lawyer simply did not pay mean I certainly know what "theft of services means." On the other hand, my wonderful gsd, Arvon, bit down hard on a bone that splintered and drove a sharp wedge between his teeth. I took him to the vet because I think she could pull the shard out with pliers or something. Whatever she did, the bill was certainly NOT in my budget! I was shocked and horrified. No way did I have the money to pay. I was already in a very sensitive even unstable state because of my upset over the dog. In my case, I had just been issued a new credit card so the bill was charged to the card but at least there was no threat of impounding Arvon!

I have friends who took their truck for repair. The bill was unexpectedly appallingly high. The dealer impounded their vehicle. They simply abandoned it. Now they will never go back to the dealer and sure give it bad publicity. As a business model, seizing something a person cares about, which they brought to you to make it better, is a very poor way to conduct business because it ensures there is no repeat business, from the damaged customer, at least.


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## bergere

I have slowly earned my Vet's respect. Have always paid them on the spot. 
Figure a good working relation ship is a good thing, they are much more likely to come out when I need them.

I normally have a emergency fund but my last rescue drained that, so keeping my fingers crossed nothing big happens until I can slowly build that back up.
But I know they would work with me now that they have known me for years, if something did happen.

Am also very lucky to have found an excellent Vet.


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## MARYDVM

I'm glad you can afford to lose $30,000. The billing and accounting costs to keep the losses that low were substantial. There was also the costs of vehicles and maintenance, payroll, inventory, taxes, and of course keeping fees "reasonable". The result was an old country vet who went bankrupt at the age of 65. For some reason the bank he was financed with wasn't interested in accepting payments whenever he could afford it. They held his house and clinic "hostage" too.


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## Guest

I'm very glad that you were able to pay the Vet and get your dog back home.


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## Tracy Rimmer

HillsideWayCSA said:


> It seems crazy to me that people think that making payments is considered getting a free lunch. Since when does making payments on a big ticket make it a crime? My farm vet accepts payments, why wouldn't any other vet?...





> When I went and bought my last truck after my car broke down and I couldn't come up with the cash to fix it, I made payments on it, that was just word of mouth, they didn't even make me go through a bank, I paid them directly.


Yes, but I would bet that you spoke of this before you signed on the dotted line, or made the deal. Home depot can take their stuff back. The car dealership can take the car back, the alpaca breeder can take the alpaca back, and that was part of the deal before the transaction was complete.


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## arabian knight

Tracy Rimmer said:


> Yes, but I would bet that you spoke of this before you signed on the dotted line, or made the deal. Home depot can take their stuff back. The car dealership can take the car back, the alpaca breeder can take the alpaca back, and that was part of the deal before the transaction was complete.


 So can Sears, Best Buy, horse breeders to can come get whatever horse you bought and have not lived up to the contract, many places can take it back for none payment. So a vet clinic holding a dog for payment is not a surprise at all. maybe to some that have not been around but it is a big world out there.


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## Oggie

Oh no!

the cone of shame!










I'm glad that the doggie is back home.

Hopefully this tale might serve as a reminder that folks should chose a vet wisely and work out a relationship with his or her office.

One of the questions to ask, before an emergency happens, is what sort of payment plans can be worked out.

We've used the same vet office for more than 10 years. If an injury or illness occurs that costs more than we can instantly pay, they're willing to spread it out. That sure beats scrambling to find the full fee or putting it on a credit card.

I'm glad the pup is on the mend.

While money might be tight, it seems that you have a vast surplus of love.


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## TheMartianChick

For those who are not aware of the service:

http://carecredit.com/


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## beccachow

TMC, yes and yes. They are awesome. I did it once for some extreme dental work, and when my Duke went through his GI ordeal, did it again.

I totally understand both sides of this debate. I took Duke, at the brink of death (literally) to his primary vet, who insisted on payment before I left. Meantime, they carry my dog out on a backboard and tell me he needs to go to the Emergency CLinic IMMEDIATELY or he would die. That simple. So I am wasting all this time trying to scrounge up credit cards to pay for his intial vet cisit, while precious time is trickling. They had to call my DH for HIS card, get it authorized, etc. Flash forward...now I burst into the Emergency Clinic and tell them I needed help to get Duke (130 pounds) out of the back of my truck (some of you know this story, but at the time he was paralyzed, he got the GI bleed from steroids for the injury). They get him, rush him into the back...and tell me I needed to come up with $200 for them to even BEGIN to look at him. I came up with that, now I am tapped, I got an estimated bill of $2000 once the diagnosis came back as GI bleed. I am informed that I needed to cough up an additional 10 or 20 percent IMMEDIATELY or they wouldn't treat him. I wrote a check that I was hoping would cash because of my Overdraft Protection, came home and found Care Credit does vets!! Got an IMMEDIATE okey-dokey and a print out sheet that I was able to take into the office the next day. You might have to find a vet locally that takes this "insurance" (loan), but if you need them they are there. WHile I was in the office that first long night, a hysterical woman was crying on her cell phone that her dog had been attacked IN HER OWN YARD by another dog, and she had $0 money, $0 credit cards, and the clinic (this is a HUGE Emergency clinic in Maryland) was pulling the same stunt on her, $X to even look at her, and gosh knows what they would find once they opened her up. I was already emotionally wrecked because of Duke, I still tear up thinking of her sobbing phone call to a family member. Sure, she could sue, but that doesn't replace the dog.

YET...

If you THINK you would "do anything" at the heat of the moment, once the dog has been saved and you get that bill...will you decide it wasn't worth it? Not pay the bill since a vet bill isn't as high a priority and the crisis is past? Abandon the dog? Sadly, this does happen a lot. I KNOW me, I will sell my car if money is needed for ANY of my animals (ok, maybe not the hamster or lizard...I might sell Barbie's car for them), but how many times have they heard that? I had to put a dog down because the vet refused to do anything without money up front...their payment plan was, half the money up front, and the other half...the next day. 

Gotta wonder...what would they have done with your dog if you hadn't been able to pay??? Sell him? Put him down (how petty is that)? Sad, sad all around for you .

OK, rambling is done now. By the way, they DID save Duke, he is not paralyzed any longer, and God works miracles.

I am so very glad you got the dog home. I must confess, I have had some animals that had to wear that cone, and they simply shut down while they were wearing it, refused to eat and so forth. There are some various ways to make the wound taste awful so they do not engage in licking at it as frequently. I had to weigh the benefits of the cone vs their well being, and decided just keeping an eye on them had to do.


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## Aintlifegrand

I think many here have been pretty harsh... I understand being prepared and responsible but also know some times too much happens at once.....but..keeping someone's dog is horrible...and then adding to the crisis by charging 50.00 a day is really bad. 

My little Holly became paralyzed one the eve of my dd wedding...we had no idea what was wrong with her.. we rushed her to the ER vet as my vet was closed for the day..her disc had messed up ( she is a dacshund) they took care of her immediate pain but wanted to put her to sleep..I could not think of it. I was so upset and crying that I could not decide what to do...and I can tell you right then and there I would have paid every dime I had to fix her...you do not think clearly when you love the pet. I was lucky I had the money.. had I not had the money I would have sold whatever.. I took her home..paid them their 395.00 for basically nothing much...a steriod IV and pain meds is all they did...the next morning I took her to my vet... she kept her for nearly two weeks...they cared for her, hydrotherapy and exercise everyday. At the end ..Holly got well and we paid.. 65.00 total. When we picked her up.. we sat down holding her in the waiting room and cried like babies...so yeah they can be like children. I think it was unfair of the vet to not work out payments. and it is clear that she was not asking for free service. I think you make sure you never go there again and tell your story to everyone nearby. Bad business is bad business and others need to be made aware.


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## beccachow

ALG, that is why I haven't read the majority of the answers here, sometimes people can be pretty hard on a person when their heart's already breaking. Yes, she asked for advice, but never implied anything else than that she was going to pay for the dog.

As for others, I would look at the Care Credit Vet list and have a number written down for a vet near you that accepts it, just in case. They call it an emergency because it is just that, an emergency. Seldom do we have several grand put aside just in case the dog gets hurt, or the horse colics, or the goat gets mauled. Yes, that would be ideal, wouldn't it, but for most of us, just not practical.

With my doggie dramas here, and the kitty drama added in, my local vet (I have since changed local vets) just decided to let me make payments. I joke about her owning my house and car. She decided, on her own, after seeing how much I care for my animals, that it would be a good risk. Smaller practices can do that .


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## Peacock

I have a client that owes me over $400 right now. He's paid $200 and promised the rest when he can . . . it's been 8 months since I billed him.

Fortunately I have very low overhead and can afford to wait. But what am I going to do? He's got nothing like a dog that I can hold hostage. I wrote his web site. I've been thinking about holding his web site hostage. I have the password. Bwahahahaaaaa!

Just kidding. Sort of.

I'm very, very glad the doggie is home. I don't know what I would have done if the vet had to keep one of mine! It's like the doctor keeping your child because you can't pay his pediatrician.


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## RiverPines

Credit care is useless for me.
There are no vets in my area that take it.
I have 2 towns and 4 vets locally and none are with cc.


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## beccachow

Aww, RP, I am sorry. Might not hurt to have a talk with your vet and see if they will take payments in the event of something serious BEFORE it happens. Trust me, sitting there listening to vets talk about transfusing your dog, the whispers that he might not make it through the night, that is NOT the time to have to worry about these things!


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## Minelson

I had a long conversation about this with the vet where I work. He said that he looses about 1% in non-payments. He says it's just the cost of doing business and he is happy that he doesn't have any big problems with it. He also said that he would never refuse to treat an animal or turn anyone away. He would never EVER hold a pet until payment is made and the thought never even occurred to him. He has no idea if it's legal or not. He never thought about having someone sign something about payment..what good would that do? he asked. He has taken a few people to small claims court and won. 
I am feeling very proud of my boss and thankful to be working for him 

Now...this made me think about people extending credit. All I have are my own experiences. When we first moved here (and nobody knew me at all) I needed to get set up for horses. I do recall the contractor asking for money to cover materials before he started. Same with the fence guy. The electrician sent someone over and sent me a bill at the end of the month...it was $600.00. I got several loads of dirt delivered...$100/load. got the bill at the end of the month. Cable/TV/Internet/phone all installed...billed next billing cycle. Large animal vet came out for the first time to float teeth. I asked how much?...he said I'll just send you a bill. And just this week I took my truck in to get an oil change and stuff. First time I have been to this place. I called and said I couldn't get there before closing. He said no problem, I'll leave the bill in the truck and you can just send me a check. This is why I am so amazed at this thread...I guess I thought that everyone was innocent (paying or making payments) until proven guilty (burned you in the past). That's all.


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## Txrider

insocal said:


> If you signed an estimate of fees and authorization to treat, you almost certainly signed an agreement to pay in full before the dog would be released to you. I haven't seen any vets who DIDN'T require that sort of thing in over 20 years (myself included). Because we are virtually guaranteed to never see a dime once the animal goes out the door ('cause vets are always the first to be ripped off when money is short), we are legally permitted to place a lien on our patients. That's how it is in CA and probably every other state, too..


My vet has never asked me to sign anything before treatment, nor after. He has given me estimates but but never any agreement of the sort you mention.


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## JanS

suzfromWi said:


> If a human being was taken to the emergency room, would they fix them and then hold them for payment? This vet is being unreasonable...Dont even tell me that they dont charge enough to make up for a few that cannot pay...This WAS an emergency. Would the vet have let the dog die or suffer if he knew she couldn't pay? God where is the humanity?


As someone stated earlier, people are people, pets are property. My pets feel like family to me but legally they are property. As for it being an emergency....yes, an emergency for one person, but I'll bet there is an emergency every day. When I had my cat in last week (for an emergency) the tech told me there'd been an explosion of injuries since about the 4th of July. I was the first to okay treatment, the rest had their animals put down, I assume for financial reasons.. What if they'd all wanted treatment? The vet would have been spending a lot of time on cases that would be paying either a little over time or possibly not paying at all. It's certainly their right to choose whether or not they want to do that.


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## Willowynd

I think that everyone can take a lesson from this situation. First, get with your current vet and ask what thier policy is in an emergency situation. I know here that if you do not have a vet that works after hours- take the animal to the ER clinic in the large city and have a $300 deposit when you walk in the door or they will not see the pet. Some vets here require a deposit and all services paid for at time of pickup- it is posted on the wall. Others have added that any payment arrangements must be made in advance. I don't know of any vets around here except one high priced one and maybe the ER clinic that accepts care credit...and I do not qualify either I found out when I needed to have dental work done (and yes, I pay my bills, but student loan was put on the back burner temporarily when hubby lost his job so there went my credit).
I had a stash set back for emergencies...but sometimes emergencies come too close together or jobs get lost. Years ago I had a dog who broke her leg and needed pins put in when I just got back to work, the ortho vet was kind enough to arrange a payment plan. If he had not, I would have had to choose to euthanize the dog. I gladly paid more than I ever paid for a medical bill for myself. 
Other times I had to borrow money to pay an ER bill or make payment arrangements for an upcoming bill like the mortgage or car payment. 
I don't fault vets for wanting paid- they deserve to be paid. I do find fault with a vet keeping an animal as collateral and charging more daily...especially when they did not tell the client that payment had to be made when picking up- no exeptions. Had the client known that, she may have gone to another vet who was willing to work with her or started figuring out a way to come up with money right then. To blindside a client in any business is unacceptable.
Everyone here would be well served to have a chat with thier vet and find out what thier policies are and ask to be notified if thier policies change in the future. If you don't have a regular vet- get one. Build a relationship. Even though you do everything yourself, buy what you need from the vet. You will pay a little more, but at least that vet will know that you do care for your animals and you are wanting to be thier client and you always pay for what you purchase - and they may be willing to work with you in the future should the need arise. 
Also, have a plan in mind on how to deal with an emergency that happens when your broke. Assume a vet will not take payments or extend credit. I know I have discussed with my husband about what dollar amount would be reasonable to spend on each animal in an emergency...when would I have to draw the line. I know it sounds harsh, but as my husband put it, when you are facing repairing your pet at the price of losing your and its home- you have to be sensible. Only once have I had to face a figure that would have had a dog put down...and my husband changed his mind and upped the figure and found a way to come up with the balance without losing our home as long as we made some sacrifices....on the plus side, I was able to fit back into that bikini a month later 
I have never known a vet to barter or take work or items in exchange or in collateral for services. They always want cold hard cash or plastic, and honestly, I don't blame them. They have to be able to pay the bills to keep thier clinic open.


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## mightybooboo

A couple times our vet office asked for a moderate amt up front,which we paid in full in cash at pickup which got us a 10% discount.

After that no mention of payment when we took pets in.

Have to admit though when he got a new office I thought one of those exam rooms should have a plaque on it that said 'Donated by BooBoo',she paid for that room,LOL!


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## texican

Sorry, Vet ER's aren't like Human ER's, whereby they have to treat your pets, and if you can't afford it, it's ok, the county, state, feds, or "someone else" will. They eat that cost. 

Simple solution... pay the bill. That's what credit cards are for. Most clinics around here don't take "payments" any more... for a good reason. I got my dog back, good luck getting me to pay the bill anymore. Vet ER's are even harder put upon... payment up front, because a lot of pets aren't brought in till they're almost dead, and then they end up dying. If they don't get paid up front, who would pay a Grand, and the dog dies on the operating table?

Look at it from their point of view... we do all the work, they want their pet back, but don't want to pay for their time and supplies... we hold the dog, "maybe" they'll come back and get it, with the cash or credit card handy.

Call the Sheriff, and tell him you don't want to pay the bill for emergency services rendered, and you want your dog back... odds are, the Sheriff is going to side with law and order... services rendered, payment required... otherwise it's theft of services...

Saying that, I do hope you get your dog back. A few years back I spent 1/4 of my income that year on a lost cause... my best friend and furbuddy ever... if selling everything I had would have saved him, I'd given everything. The vet bills were huge... my dog 'saved' me too, on several occasions... I couldn't honestly not repay the love he shared with anything less than everything I had.


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## Ravenlost

mightybooboo said:


> A couple times our vet office asked for a moderate amt up front,which we paid in full in cash at pickup which got us a 10% discount.
> 
> After that no mention of payment when we took pets in.
> 
> Have to admit though when he got a new office I thought one of those exam rooms should have a plaque on it that said 'Donated by BooBoo',she paid for that room,LOL!


When our vet put a new lighted sign up he actually thanked us for it! LOL...


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