# Dog In Heat...Questions?



## beccachow (Nov 8, 2008)

SO Brandy is in heat. Yuck. Ick. And yuck. Now I recall why I NEVER have female dogs.

Question one: How long does the icky part last (dripping blood here and there)? What garment works best? She started on Sunday, apparently.

Question two: Is it true she will be drawing dogs from all over? How about neutered ones? My two males don't care. She IS in a fenced in yard.

Question three: Stupid one. I have heard dogs in heat will draw coyotes, too. Is that true? Do I need to get the gun ready? She is in a fenced in yard, so she should be safe?

Question four: How long is she considered to be "in heat?" How long will she be attractive to other dogs? Will she start acting out on my males, beggin to breed like goats do?

Question five: After she is spayed, will this stop?

I just ask you guys because I know you all know. I did google, but came up with a lot of things that were way over my head. :shrug:


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## Wolf Flower (Dec 21, 2005)

The bloody part usually lasts about a week, but it can be less or more than that. They do make sanitary panties for dogs, I am sure that the breeders here can help you with that.

Yes, she will likely be drawing loose dogs within scenting range. Don't take her on walks in the neighborhood at this time. I don't think coyotes would be a big concern. But don't leave her unattended, even in the fenced yard, at all, ever, for any reason, until she is out of heat.

It usually lasts about three weeks, but that can vary. If I were you, I'd make an appointment to have her spayed about a month from now. After she is spayed, she won't come into heat again.


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## Sonshine (Jul 27, 2007)

Although she won't come in heat again, she will still emit an odor similar to heat after she is spayed. I have a sheltie and a chihuahua that were spayed, but they still go through a period similar to going into heat, without the mess and the chance of getting pregnant. Those doggy pads are ok, if you can get them to keep them on. I just gave up and put covers all over the place. Not sure about coyotes. They will spay while a dog is in heat, but it's more expensive.


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## akane (Jul 19, 2011)

It's most effective to have a garment designed for this purpose with changeable pads but failing that a pinned up tshirt works. It can last a week or even the odd drip up to 3. Somewhat breed dependent. The akitas I'm familiar with will attract males and drip blood for 3-4weeks even though it greatly reduces during the 2nd week. Yes they can attract coyotes but coyotes mate in a narrow season instead of any time of the year like dogs and it's not usually a huge concern.

Do watch her when she is out. Dogs have climbed some impressive fences getting to each other and even mated through fences. A dog in heat requires 100% supervision.

Spaying should stop all symptoms. Most dogs don't have a cycle or attract other dogs after spaying. None of mine do and they went through heat cycles first.


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## farmmom (Jan 4, 2009)

Definitely don't leave her unattended in the fence! I have seen dogs tied through chain link. 

Just an aside:
We had a show Golden brought into our clinic for a post-whelping check up. The owner had put the her in a boarding facility while in season to prevent "oops" puppies. The kennel put her in a run next to an intact black Lab. They tied through the fencing. The owner was furious! She was telling us it takes at least 6 months to get a ***** back in show condition after whelping.


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## beccachow (Nov 8, 2008)

Gack. Thank you guys!!!

My vet advises no spaying until 18 months due to some new findings on increasing cancers and so forth. She is almost one year, in June she'll be one. Is this late enough to stop the spay incontinence worry?

Geesh, the cat went into heat for many years until the pyro and I never even knew.


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## pamda (Oct 14, 2004)

I had an in-heat dog that I put in the garage for the night,(as in the smell and mess were to much and it was dead summer). When I opened the door to let her out, there were two dogs in with her. Two stray males had dug under the wall and were sleeping over...:viking:..Moral of this story..do not leave her alone anyplace. They were nice, huge puppies and I had no trouble giving them away but I did not want any puppies...lol


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## Sonshine (Jul 27, 2007)

akane said:


> It's most effective to have a garment designed for this purpose with changeable pads but failing that a pinned up tshirt works. It can last a week or even the odd drip up to 3. Somewhat breed dependent. The akitas I'm familiar with will attract males and drip blood for 3-4weeks even though it greatly reduces during the 2nd week. Yes they can attract coyotes but coyotes mate in a narrow season instead of any time of the year like dogs and it's not usually a huge concern.
> 
> Do watch her when she is out. Dogs have climbed some impressive fences getting to each other and even mated through fences. A dog in heat requires 100% supervision.
> 
> Spaying should stop all symptoms. Most dogs don't have a cycle or attract other dogs after spaying. None of mine do and they went through heat cycles first.


Maybe it depends on the breed, but I just got through my little chihuahua driving my shelties crazy and she was spayed a year ago. I also have a female sheltie that still attracts the males during the time the female use to go into heat. She's also been spayed for 5 years.


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## Wolf Flower (Dec 21, 2005)

beccachow said:


> My vet advises no spaying until 18 months due to some new findings on increasing cancers and so forth. She is almost one year, in June she'll be one. Is this late enough to stop the spay incontinence worry?


I'm surprised the vet is telling people not to spay until 18 months. I don't think that's a very responsible thing to be telling the average pet owner... Spaying will reduce the risk of certain cancers as well. 12 months of age is plenty old enough. Make that appointment! You don't want an oops litter, could you imagine 10 little Brandies running around?


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## Wolf Flower (Dec 21, 2005)

Sonshine said:


> Maybe it depends on the breed, but I just got through my little chihuahua driving my shelties crazy and she was spayed a year ago. I also have a female sheltie that still attracts the males during the time the female use to go into heat. She's also been spayed for 5 years.


A urinary infection will mimic the smell of heat... next time you notice the males paying more attention to one of your females, take her to the vet and get her checked out.


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## Maura (Jun 6, 2004)

beccachow said:


> Gack. Thank you guys!!!
> 
> My vet advises no spaying until 18 months due to some new findings on increasing cancers and so forth. She is almost one year, in June she'll be one. Is this late enough to stop the spay incontinence worry?
> 
> Geesh, the cat went into heat for many years until the pyro and I never even knew.


The exact age to spay depends on the breed of dog. For a larger dog, one that is not full grown until two years, you need to wait the two years (possibly 18 months). I'm sure if you had a toy sized dog your vet would have suggested a much younger age. Your dog is well past the spay incontinence problem. The problem now deals with growth. Dogs neutered before they hit puberty keep growing taller instead of filling out and could have problems because of this. As long as you can handle the problem, wait it out.

For the suitors showing up, sprinkle pepper on the spots she leaves. They smell the spot, the pepper burns their nose, they forget why they are there and go home. It is uncomfortable for the dog, but won't hurt him. And better than an unwanted litter.


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## Sonshine (Jul 27, 2007)

Wolf Flower said:


> A urinary infection will mimic the smell of heat... next time you notice the males paying more attention to one of your females, take her to the vet and get her checked out.


My sheltie has been going through this for 5 or 6 years now. No infections, just emits an odor during the time she would normally go into heat.


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## Haven (Aug 16, 2010)

If she is a breed with a long tail you can just buy a cheap pack of boys brief undies and cut a small hole for the tail. A friend of mine who raises show poodles has always done this.

Normally the blood will begin to lighten to a thinner, more watery consistancy after 8 to 10 days or so.


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## GrannyCarol (Mar 23, 2005)

One thing to keep in mind is that when they seem to have gone out of season (when the swelling goes down and the discharge is almost gone) is the MOST likely time for them to be fertile and they can be fertile for a week or two after they are done. I used to give mine close to a month of supervision, though I was showing and breeding, my stud dogs would tell me when they were ready and when they were boring, that helped. 

My vet told me the latest research does show that waiting to spay increases the bitches chance of a long and healthy life span. Although breast cancer is slightly increased if you wait to spay, it is rare enough that the risk is still very small. So, there are responsible reasons to wait for the bitches health. I plan to wait until 3 or so with my new puppy, but am experienced in breeding and preventing pregnancies. I don't have any males any more either. I do have a pen with good 6' chainlink fencing. 

Spaying before her physical maturity does change her growth, hormones and possibly the chances of urinary incontinence as well as vaginal infections (if the vulva doesn't fully mature, the shape is different and can set her up for infections). However, if she goes through one heat, her vulva will be mature and spay incontinence won't be likely. I found many times over the years that spaying a ***** (even at age 6 - 8) would cause her to lose condition, get fat and often have thyroid problems. This isn't a myth, it's mentioned often because it often happens. 

Because of the PETA hyperbole we are taught that to breed a dog is evil and that every person is utterly irresponsible with their pets and every puppy should be spayed and neutered as early as possible. The data doesn't support that treatment for pets of responsible pet owners. If you don't know a lot and aren't willing to learn and take care of an intact *****, then, by all means, get her spayed young and you don't have to worry about it. However, most people are capable of learning and making informed decisions, in spite of all the propaganda on the internet.


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## beccachow (Nov 8, 2008)

Yeah, I am leaning towards my vet with this one. Brandy is going to be a decent sized shepherd, not huge like Duke, but a nice sized dog. I don't want to do anything that will increase her odds for cancers, which run rampant in shepherds to begin with.

But...

Wolf Flower just gave me a heart attack, sitting here at the computer!!!!! Ack, 10 Brandies?? I need CPR...

I will call the vet again and see what she thinks.


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## BoldViolet (Feb 5, 2009)

I got my Akita spayed at 6 months. No problems. I couldn't imagine dealing with this big ol' butthead bleedin' all over the darn place.


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## akane (Jul 19, 2011)

Waiting until a dog goes through 1 or 2 heat cycles and therefore the equivalent of full puberty also has been shown to have a major impact on personality. A lot more females make it through the required training for things like police work and service animals when spayed later and show less aggression. Many professional groups don't spay until 10months minimum, 18months for slow growing breeds anymore. It really does depend on breed. My akita is known for not maturing mentally or physically fully until 3 years old and it's held true. Despite not spaying until her 2nd heat cycle after a year old she really wasn't mentally mature enough for many tasks and didn't fill out fully until about 3. Some people who hadn't seen her in a year because they went on a year long trip were amazed at the difference in her demeanor and shape from 2 1/2 to 3 1/2. I'm sure for other breeds 12 months is just fine and for yet other breeds 8months is probably fine. The vet says they are going by the latest research and they are the ones that know your dog and it's breed.


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## Elsbet (Apr 2, 2009)

We just confine our girl to her bedroom and the mudroom- she can't come in on the nicer floors when she is in heat. The odor isn't too horrible, and I just wash her bedding every day or so. It's not that bad.
Despite the fact that we live in the south and are surrounded by people with unneutered dogs, we haven't once had any males visit during a heat cycle, even when both my bitches were in cycle at the same time.
I want a puppy from my dog. I'm just waiting until I find the right boy to breed her to. I've heard so many great things about cattledog/border collie crosses. And my dog wants to be a mama again. We had a labradoodle here for a little while, and 'Dita would roll onto her back and try to let the puppy nurse. It was precious. Dita was dry as a bone, but they both tried!


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## lonelyfarmgirl (Feb 6, 2005)

A cage and a leash come in handy here. Keep her on a leash for the next 3 weeks. When the blood lightens and seemingly disappears she will be in 'standing' heat, meaning she will stand still and hold her tail to the side for a male dog to have his way with her. That will last about 3-5 days. Although pregnancy is possible outside that window, its less likely. When she is standing, you can touch her above the tail and she will present. 

Wait a month, then get her fixed. It's not good to try to spay a dog while she is in heat, because everything is swollen in there. I didn't fix my Dane until she was 5. I had a doggy diaper for her. She chewed it off and I sewed it up and put it back on her. Took a while to train her right, but if you have her on a leash, you can control that. Of use an ecollar. They have soft ones now.


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## BarbadosSheep (Jun 27, 2011)

I like your vet. It sounds like she is really up on the latest trend regarding spaying. For years, everyone (including vets) has pushed early spay. More recent studies have proven that early spay is detrimental to a dog's physical and mental health. If you think about it in human terms, what would happen if a child had a medical condition that prevent formation of sex hormones? that child would be given artificial hormones so that he/she could develop properly. When a puppy is altered, those sex hormones are gone. how on earth can that dog develop properly without those hormones? it is simply not possible. So even though heat cycles are a royal pain to deal with, be prepared to deal with at least one more and maybe two for your sweet Brandy. I won't get my Anatolians altered until they are two, but GSDs grow a bit faster so 18 months may be fine for them. 

Like others have said, when the bright blood stops and you see a pink tinged or clearish discharge, that's when she is in standing heat and will breed. Don't let her out of your sight and don't trust her. Many bitches have been known to run away from home in search of a mate. Many years ago I had a bouvier Des Flanders mate through chain link. I didn't even know she was bred until she was delivering her pups! Thank God the father was my male Bouvier! He was kenneled so I know they "did the deed" through the fence.


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## Wolf Flower (Dec 21, 2005)

12 months of age is not an "early" spay. I have known hundreds of female dogs that were spayed *before* their first heat, that have gone on to live long, healthy lives. I can honestly say I don't know a single female that has incontinence related to spay. When people talk of cancers and spay incontinence and so forth, they are really talking about EARLY spay, like before 6 months of age. With a female GSD, they have reached most of their physical growth by 12 months and so spaying at that age carries very little risk. The difference 6 months makes is not critical, but dealing with a ***** in heat can be a real pain. I have had some females that get super-aggressive when they come into heat, attacking other dogs they have lived with all their lives. 

Having said that, I have always let my females go through one heat before spaying (sometimes two if I didn't get the appointment made in time) because of the newer studies, but I don't necessarily recommend that other people do it, simply because the risk of unwanted pregnancy is so great. The average pet owner does not know how to properly contain and manage an intact female without an accidental litter at some point.


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## mamahen (May 11, 2002)

When my cocker (4 at the time) went into heat a dog literally ripped the outside door frame off of our door.

And THEN he jumped on the basement porch roof and ripped the screen out of the window and jumped in the kitchen.

I came home from work to two very tired, happy looking dogs, laying side by side sleeping.:smack He was a basset/beagle/GSP mix - my dog was spayed the next week.


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## beccachow (Nov 8, 2008)

I know the earlier spay/later spay is somewhat of a hot button topic, and I sincerely appreciate all insight from both sides, presented in typical friendly, calm Doggie Forum style that keeps me coming here. 

I will definitely be calling the vet and speaking with her about it again, to be sure we heard her/understood her correctly, weigh her thoughts against Brandy's breed, etc, and thanks to you guys, I have both sides more clearly understood in my mind.

I never knew this lasted so long (the heat cycle) and I admit to not being prepared mentally for this latest Brandy episode! But I have a much better understanding of it all now, thanks to you guys. All the info I had gotten off the internet used terminology that didn't make a lot of sense to me. I also thought she was only fertile while she was spotting. Geesh, can you imagine if I relaxed when that stopped??? :doh:

Thankfully, this hasn't done anything to her personality this time around; she is still the same old lovable but maddening goof she has always been.

Thank you all from the bottom of my heart for guiding me through this. I had no idea, none at all.


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## BoldViolet (Feb 5, 2009)

For those of you who are advocates of later spays, could you link to some of your favorite sites with research of later spays?

Since I'm partial to giant breeds, I'd like to see what some of the new research says about later spays.

Thanks!


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## JPiantedosi (Apr 23, 2012)

Over the years I have spayed many females at about 6mos old, I have yet to have a dog develope cancer (maybe 20sh dogs) In the last 5-6yrs I have stopped spaying and neutering my bird dogs untill 18+ mos. I can tell you that my dogs mature and fill out much better now that I have stopped spaying early. I used to have thin leggy dogs from very similar breedings to what I am dealing with now and since I have backed up my spaying I am finding dogs that fill out much better and have cut my muscular and tendon issues way back, due to having more physically mature dogs.

Jim


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## BarbadosSheep (Jun 27, 2011)

For my breed (Anatolian Shepherds), later spay is more about proper body development rather than a cancer issue. It's not as obvious in dog as it is in horses, but compare a gelding and a stallion. A stud colt gelded early looks like a mare. It lacks the well defined muscles and the beautifully crested neck. The same issues apply to dogs, even though it's not as obvious. Looks like JPiantedosi has seen it for himself!


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## beccachow (Nov 8, 2008)

I worry for GSDs, don't they keep filling in their bodies til a later age than some other dogs? I know Duke never really looked "right" until nearly 18 months or better. He was all paws, ears, gangly legs and skinny body. Maybe because he is a "giant" shepherd? Brandy will be about average, but she is all lanky, gangly pup.


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## BarbadosSheep (Jun 27, 2011)

Different dog within the same breed mature at different rates. When I got Eli and Isaac, they were almost 4 months old. Eli looked great! He was well balanced and never went through a gawky stage. They are a year old now and Eli is still gorgeous and balanced. Isaac, his brother, was a whole different story. Isaac was big, lanky, out of proportion, feet way too big, pasterns that looked a little weak. He was a mess! Best personality you ever saw though. His pasterns are fine now and he has grown into his feet but he is still tall and lanky. He eats half again as much as Eli does plus gets raw eggs and he's still lanky and lean, but Eli gets fat easy. So this is a great example of littermates that are polar opposites as far as build goes. If I were to neuter them both now (which I won't), chances are Eli would still be gorgeous into adulthood. Isaac though.....he may never mature like he should. I am hoping that as he does mature (when he's two), he may fill out some of his lankyness.


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## akane (Jul 19, 2011)

> I can honestly say I don't know a single female that has incontinence related to spay.


I could name 3. One of our own dogs who we had to spay before her first heat in order to get her akc papers, and we cut it as close as we thought we could, has incontinence off and on. Sometimes she wakes up and just pees a river and sometimes she leaks. It's not constant but tends to happen after vaccinations for some reason and occasionally other events. My dad's dog though was a show doberman for one show and then spayed because she didn't make the cut and has incontinence with constant leaking 24/7 despite meds. One of the akitas that is a sibling to mine got spayed before 1 year and has incontinence off and on. Those are dogs between the 6month and first heat range.

One person's experience though doesn't amount to much when discussing something like this. Studies done on 100s of dogs, groups professionally training 100s of dogs for tasks, and vets spaying 100s of different types of dogs have found more incontinence when you spay before that 10-18month range depending on breed and factors.


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## mekasmom (Jan 19, 2010)

Wolf Flower said:


> I'm surprised the vet is telling people not to spay until 18 months.


Altering giant breeds too early causes hip issues. Actually altering any dog too early will cause incontinence too.


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## Haven (Aug 16, 2010)

beccachow said:


> I worry for GSDs, don't they keep filling in their bodies til a later age than some other dogs?


I consider my dogs mostly mature at 2 years. To me, they don't truly fill out and fully bloom till around 5 years of age - that's usually when I find myself stepping back and saying "wow" when I look at them. I don't spay or neuter anyone- even if they are pets; I just keep them under control for a few weeks when in season.


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## Wolf Flower (Dec 21, 2005)

beccachow said:


> I worry for GSDs, don't they keep filling in their bodies til a later age than some other dogs? I know Duke never really looked "right" until nearly 18 months or better. He was all paws, ears, gangly legs and skinny body. Maybe because he is a "giant" shepherd? Brandy will be about average, but she is all lanky, gangly pup.


It really depends. Some of them go through a lanky, gawky stage until they are 2 or 3 years old. Others, like my Vinca, seem to grow at a slow, proportionate rate and always look like a miniature version of a mature dog. Even at 9 months of age she looked pretty well filled out for her size. I let her go through 2 heats, which I deeply regret, because she became seriously aggressive during her second heat. I wish I'd have spayed her as soon as she finished her first, at about 12 months.


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## beccachow (Nov 8, 2008)

Did she regain her personality when it was over?


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## mamahen (May 11, 2002)

My basset's personality changed a bit too, after her second heat. She's not mean, but gets a bit cranky at times. Obstinate, I guess you'd say.


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## thaiblue12 (Feb 14, 2007)

See this is part of the reason why mine are done by a year old, dogs are enough work already and I am not dealing with monitoring my dog constantly to fend off intact males, have them drip blood all over, marking, risk cancer or aggression or unwanted puppies. 
There are enough mutts out there why add to it? 

Not to mention getting open or closed pyo, mammary cancer and etc is not worth it to me. Mine live happier lives being altered. 

My dogs have all been altered between 6-12 months old and none have had issues with leaking pee or poor growth. 

One of mine was recently spayed she is a year old, while in the office they told a lady that her dog did not have the complete exam since he was being too aggressive. She told me that she "felt bad" about having him neutered so she didn't do it and then he got older and started becoming very aggressive so he was banished to the backyard till she got him neutered at 2 yrs old. 

Talk to your vet and see she is ok with having her spayed before her next heat.


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## beccachow (Nov 8, 2008)

Yeah, I left the chow intact with the intention of breeding him back to a like-personality dog, with the hopes of playing his great personality and beauty forward (he is an exceptional looking chow).

Around 2, he changed. Drastically. Started growling at neighbors and such. Even air-nipped at someone. He was in the vet's within the week.

Thankfully, he returned to his sweet personality again after the boy-bugs got out of him. That was close .


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## Wolf Flower (Dec 21, 2005)

beccachow said:


> Did she regain her personality when it was over?


Not so far, as far as I know... I sent her back to the breeder as I could not take her constantly fighting with my older dog. At the breeder's, she continued to be a holy terror and pick fights with other females. She's been rehomed to an owner with no other dogs, so we will see how it goes. I suspect that, had I spayed her earlier, she might not have gone through the hormonally-induced aggression and I'd still have her.


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