# Driving/riding horse



## Pigeon Lady (Apr 4, 2004)

Hey guys, I'm just putting out feelers for a homesteading neighbor. 

Where would be the best place to look for a horse trained to both ride and drive (as in farm work) ? Due to some back problems he would prefer a gaited horse.

Last weekend he and his wife drove six hours to look at a horse he'd found for sale on the web, only to find that it had been completely mis-represented. Had been left in a pasture for 12 months with no hoof care. Bucking, kicking rearing when the seller tried to demonstrate it's abilities! 

I told him to keep his eye on the Rural Heritage website but that's about the only place I know for working horses. 

After the advice you all gave me a couple of years ago, I told him to avoid the rescue sites. He's hoping to find something in Virginia or neighboring states.

Thanks for any help.

Pauline


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## SFM in KY (May 11, 2002)

We have a Haflinger mare that is trained to ride and drive both, in the 14-hand range, so suitable for most riders and heavy enough to do light farm work ... pull a buggy, hay skid, etc. She was Amish trained and I think that is likely to be your best bet for a very well trained driving horse, especially, as not too many people have a lot of farm work to do to get the number of hours of experience they need to be reliable.

Not sure how easy it is going to be to find a gaited horse with significant driving training, however. Some of the Standardbred horses are pacers and they're used as buggy horses, not sure about any of the other gaited breeds as I've actually not seen any being worked.


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## jennigrey (Jan 27, 2005)

Yeah, gaited + driving = hard to come by.


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## where I want to (Oct 28, 2008)

Missouri Foxtrotters are often trained for both as they are closer in history to a dual purpose farm horse. 

www.mfthba.com


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## Wintergrower_OH (Sep 21, 2010)

Second the idea of Amish train . Also , rural heritage should have dates of horse farm implement days (amish) . We have one in the Midwest (ohio , Ind , Ill ) that rotate to a different state and location every year 
. I believe they are called Plow days . Mich , eastern ohio or PA would be good location to check out . I went to the Equine Equity show in Columbus Ohio ( each spring) their were several drafting horse their . Some were up for sale .


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## Wintergrower_OH (Sep 21, 2010)

Check with the different horse breed association .


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## Barn Yarns (Oct 7, 2012)

how about an off the track standardbred? Ive met several and they were some nice ponys! 
There is a rescue for them in WI I believe. 

RH is great for working horses, but ive not seen gaited horses there.

Maybe a donkey. they are naturally gaited.


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## Pigeon Lady (Apr 4, 2004)

Thank you.

Haflinger was my first thought too. There is a Haflinger sale a couple of hours south of us each October. I mentioned it but that's when he said he'd prefer a gaited breed. I'd never heard of such a thing but he's done some research and I think the horse he went to look at was part Missouri Foxtrotter. 

I'll look on RH and see if there are any plow days going on around these parts. 

Thanks so much.

Pauline


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## drmusho (Jun 12, 2013)

I have seen some standardbreds listed for sale as riding and driving horses. They are supposed to be a versatile and easy to work with breed, but I do not have any personal experience with them. 

The websites I was using to search were equinenow.com and equine.com

Also you might try carriage companies if there are close enough. Sometimes they have horses they do not need anymore which might fit the bill for you.


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## Wintergrower_OH (Sep 21, 2010)

Irish Draught
Irish Draught horses were traditionally a dual-purpose horse, working during the week on the farm, and then participating in the hunt on the weekend, giving the breed a head start as a show animal. They come in a wide variety of solid colors, and are a medium-sized animal with good action.

Their was somebody at the columbus ohio equine show with a booth for Irish draught association.


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## oregon woodsmok (Dec 19, 2010)

Lots of Saddlebreds are trained to drive. They make a really fancy light harness horse and they are certainly gaited.


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## oregon woodsmok (Dec 19, 2010)

All of my Quarter Horses were trained to drive and a foundation type of Quarter Horse is not gaited, but they have a very soft easy gait. No bounce at all to the trot, just a slight sway from side to side as the big muscles in the back lift the saddle on one side and then the other.


They make some of the best light driving horses, because they are not excitable. When driving, I prefer a horse that thinks things through.


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## lathermaker (May 7, 2010)

A lot of Saddlebreds (show stock) are trained to drive even before they are ridden. I don't know how well they would do for farm work. A little too hot blooded for that.


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## TroutRiver (Nov 26, 2010)

Not all saddlebreds are gaited. There are 3 and 4 gaited saddlebreds. The 3 gaited saddlebred walk/trot/canter like any other breed, but are trained/bred for high stepping action. 

What kind of farm work is he looking to do? Most gaited breeds (standardbreds, missouri fox trotters, etc) are really not built to do farm work that most people use draft horses for.


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## Stonybrook (Sep 22, 2007)

I think if you google gaited horse breeds you will come up with a slew of choices. I know a lot of you Kentucky Mtn horses and TN Walkers were often used to pull carts and some are still trained to cart before being trained to ride. If you look at TN Walkers, I think I would look at the Heritage TN Walking Horse Assoc. They are flat shod and you won't have to deal with all that "big lick" stuff. Just my opinion on the latter. I would also avoid the Saddlebreds that are bred for that high stepping show look. I don't think it is good for their joints and legs. Of course, I wouldn't leave out the Rocky Mtn horses or even the Pasos.


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## DamnearaFarm (Sep 27, 2007)

The majority of driving horses around here are TWHs.


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## Pigeon Lady (Apr 4, 2004)

Thank you all! I'll pass along your suggestions.

TroutRiver, he didn't specify but I'm assuming plowing the garden and to move things from one place to another.


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## Wintergrower_OH (Sep 21, 2010)

http://www.mccurdyhorses.com/themccurdyplantationhorse.htm . Just found this horse breed , this might be the winning one .


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## TroutRiver (Nov 26, 2010)

Just keep in mind that driving horses are different from draft horses. Just because a horse does well under harness does not mean it will hold up to the demands of plowing or hauling logs around. That type of work is usually reserved for draft horses. I have never seen or heard of a tennessee walking horse plowing.


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## goodhors (Sep 6, 2011)

TroutRiver said:


> Just keep in mind that driving horses are different from draft horses. Just because a horse does well under harness does not mean it will hold up to the demands of plowing or hauling logs around. That type of work is usually reserved for draft horses. I have never seen or heard of a tennessee walking horse plowing.


You need to tell your friend that one breed just MAY NOT be suitable for such a wide spread of uses. As TroutRiver said, TWH or other gaited breeds are seldom used for weighty farm work. You have the gaited breeds because they are COMFORTABLE to ride! Driving them with a load behind, pulling plough or heavy wagon with a load of people, will use a TOTALLY DIFFERENT set of muscles than gaited riding uses.

We have light Driving horses, use them extensively in various Driving horse venues, compete in Combined Driving with them. They ALSO ride, but are not gaited.

Husband is a skilled Farrier, been shoeing and trimming all breeds of horses, including the various Gaited breeds to keep them gaiting well for their riders. He told customers about how fun Driving is, so some gaited horse folks trained some animals to drive their lightweight road Carts, but then moved up to 4-wheeled buggy vehicles. Husband said those gaited horses actually QUIT gaiting, started trotting instead, while pulling the heavier loaded buggies. Horses could not pull that weight, while gaiting. Once they started trotting, there was no going back to gaiting, trotting is much easier, though it wasn't a nice trot. These were older, gait established horses, ridden for years before ever driving them. 

Hitching those gaited horses changes the whole dynamics of how the horse can move. Light weight carts, 1-2 people driving, was a load they could manage. Couldn't manage those heavier, loaded with several people, buggies on country dirt roads or trails. Had to lift and change how their back was used, PUSHED with the hind end, no floating head possible like when ridden.

So friend might want to REALLY think about this, before hitching and driving a gaited horse for farm work that is a heavy load behind him. Might be easier to get a stocky pony, use it for farm work, keep the gaited horse just for riding. The two animals could keep each other company too. A big pony can do a LOT of jobs around the farm, easily pull a vehicle for fun drives too. Cheap to feed ponies, most of them are easy keepers on just grass. More work keeping them from being obese, than too thin!


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## jennigrey (Jan 27, 2005)

I had wondered about that, goodhors... The way the Icelandic here carries himself when he tolts is completely opposite of how he carries himself when he is pulling the cart. I have not asked him for much trotting or tolting in the cart because I was concerned that I might re-shape his muscles in a way that is not conducive to tolting. His owner is a rider, not a driver, so keeping his gaits is important. I only taught him to drive as a means of keeping him in condition for his owner and putting miles on him.


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## rod44 (Jun 17, 2013)

I would suggest an older Amish buggy horse. Look for a "ladies" horse. They are less excited and better broke for the wife to drive. A "family" horse would be one to consider too as they want them well broke but the husband is usually driving them and they sometimes like them to have a little more spirit. Don't get a "boys" horse and they are full of spirit. Just like a teenager with a hot car.

I used to have a pacer that also was a complete joy to ride. I could go at a face pace, like a fast canter, and have no up and down movement at all.

A standardbred can do a lot of "work" besides. Many of them plow gardens. Work as an extra horse on the hitch for spring work. Mow the lawn which is a heavy pull.


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## wr (Aug 10, 2003)

rod44 said:


> I would suggest an older Amish buggy horse. Look for a "ladies" horse. They are less excited and better broke for the wife to drive. A "family" horse would be one to consider too as they want them well broke but the husband is usually driving them and they sometimes like them to have a little more spirit. Don't get a "boys" horse and they are full of spirit. Just like a teenager with a hot car.
> 
> I used to have a pacer that also was a complete joy to ride. I could go at a face pace, like a fast canter, and have no up and down movement at all.
> 
> A standardbred can do a lot of "work" besides. Many of them plow gardens. Work as an extra horse on the hitch for spring work. Mow the lawn which is a heavy pull.


Hopefully, until I figure out how to use one of the magic mod buttons, this should allow others to see this post.


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## Pigeon Lady (Apr 4, 2004)

Thanks guys, I'll pass it on. 

He's going to be coming over to buy some ducks so I may print out this whole thread for him to mull over.


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## arnie (Apr 26, 2012)

here in sw. va. there are a couple work horse and mule sales sponserd by the amish one in spring one in the fall .ours is at the Washington county fair grounds in Abington va. all types of horses come through many are both buggy and rideing standardbreds and draft horses and there crosses many are driven outside before the sale .but like many auctions its as is where is so buyer beware though some sellers offer personal garentees . the next sale is in october


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## Barn Yarns (Oct 7, 2012)

Barn Yarns said:


> how about an off the track standardbred? Ive met several and they were some nice ponys!
> There is a rescue for them in WI I believe.
> 
> RH is great for working horses, but ive not seen gaited horses there.
> ...


ok... so i was looking thru and there was a twh mule listed in the donkey/mule section


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## PennyV (Jun 25, 2013)

I don't know what size of horse *Pigeon Lady*'s neighbor is looking for. My practical horse experience is limited, but I know my anatomy, and have a little experience with Icelandics (Multiple friends own breeding stock), that are a smaller gaited breed. I'm quoting some information I find relevant, but have cut off some of the content, to focus on the relevant, and all emphasis is mine.



goodhors said:


> You need to tell your friend that one breed just MAY NOT be suitable for such a wide spread of uses. As TroutRiver said, TWH or other gaited breeds are seldom used for weighty farm work. You have the gaited breeds because they are COMFORTABLE to ride! *Driving them with a load behind, pulling plough or heavy wagon with a load of people, will use a TOTALLY DIFFERENT set of muscles than gaited riding uses*.
> 
> [...]
> 
> ...


I tend to agree that gaited horses, such as Icelandic horses aren't built for draft work. An Icelandic horse at the tÃ¶lt has considerable movement in their shoulder area, much more so, than a harness generally allows for, as Icelandic horses have been bred more towards riding at their natural gaits and packing, at the expense of body characteristics that support pulling a harness. Many larger gaited breeds are riding types, with high head carriage, slim, graceful build, and often a lot more natural collection.

By comparison, draft breeds have wider chests and shoulders, have more horizontal forward movement from their back legs through their whole body, as they're bred to push into the collar of a harness rather than carry the weight of riders on their backs. A draft horse's head is lower down, and their neck is thicker, which gives a draft type horse away fairly quickly, you can tell they're bred for impulsion, or in layman's terms; thrust, keeping their head low, and leaning into the collar for a stronger forward movement.

Here's a picture that actually shows off the difference in body types between the riding type and the draft type pretty well: http://stonegate.deviantart.com/art/Horse-and-Draft-Comparison-24284762

If you start looking up information on Icelandic horses in Western tack, even there, the saddle tends to be too constrictive to the horse's gait, unless you find a saddler who can accommodate that extra movement for a clean gait. I would go ahead and presume there is a reason why Icelanders tack their horses up with a saddle further back on the horse than you usually see in English or Western disciplines. I'm not sure about what a harness' or western saddle's effect on a pacing Icelandic's shoulder movement is, but I know horses in sulky races are trained to pace in countries where such practices are still legal, but the sulky is again, a very light cart.



jennigrey said:


> I had wondered about that, goodhors... The way the Icelandic here carries himself when he tolts is completely opposite of how he carries himself when he is pulling the cart. I have not asked him for much trotting or tolting in the cart because I was concerned that I might re-shape his muscles in a way that is not conducive to tolting. His owner is a rider, not a driver, so keeping his gaits is important. I only taught him to drive as a means of keeping him in condition for his owner and putting miles on him.


I spend time working with therapy horses, and in hippotherapy. One breed that is often used specifically for its temperament, smooth gaits (not a gaited horse), and relatively low height of under 14.3hh, is the *Norwegian Fjord*. In hippotherapy sessions, the horse is long-lined, so in essence, driven from the back, to maintain a straight horse for better balance. We have a little mare, who was used in logging and farm work before she became a therapy horse. The breed is generally surefooted, easy to train, doesn't appear to have a lot of health issues, and although it's short in stature, is definitely more a draft-type of a horse, without the massive bulk and appetite of the larger draft breeds.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fjord_horse

If your neighbor has back problems, a non-gaited horse breed with a calm temperament and the strength for general farm work may be a more prudent investment than a gaited horse, if it's meant to perform both under saddle and in farm work.


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## dizzy (Jun 25, 2013)

I know someone mentioned the Halflinger. There are 2 different types. One type has been developed more for riding, while the other is more drafty. There's one at the farm where I have my horses, not sure which she is, but she's short and stout. One of my friends rides her. She has back problems and finds her trot very smooth.


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## greg_n_ga (May 4, 2012)

Carolina Carriage has trained horses from time to time. Maybe they have something. There is also, as has been mentioned, a number of "work" horse sales around !!


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## Grey Mare (Jun 28, 2013)

You may tell your friend, if he is an older gentleman, that he may want to look at Haflingers and the Fjords. Both I believe are considered draft ponies and I love both breeds, very smart, quirky, easy to work with, good minds, and can do light driving, moving logs, help start a garden, etc. 

IF he wants a draft horse, because many tend to not like how tall they are, mine are 17.2H each, throwing harness can become a chore, as well as the weight of the harness itself. A good heavy draft but not as tall is a Belgian. You can find a good solid steady one who has been retired from heavy work that would do fine with lighter work. The Brabants are also very hard working horses, quick to pick things up and steady and will give you an honest days work. 

Let me know if you need help. I have a good friend and mentor I can give you their phone #. Very knowledgeable and may be able to help your friend. Good luck. Oh yes, when he does find something, look at their hooves....that is important.


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## bergere (May 11, 2002)

Icelandic horse's saddles should fit, they should not be so far back as to sit on the loin.
Many Icelanders and Icelandic horse riders, find sitting far back may free up shoulders but it harms the horse's back.
To free up shoulders, you need a short saddle with a gullet and tree that properly fits the horse you are riding.
You should be sitting as you would bareback, and the saddle should reflect that.

Most Icelandic's are too short backed, to have an adult western saddle fit them properly. 

There are many Icelandic's that are three gaited or just pace and have no Tolt. There is nothing wrong with using these types for draft work as well as riding.
Many of the older type are built for both riding and working.

Fjords and Haflingers are also good choices, while not gaited per say, many of them are easy to sit.
I have known some pure bred Fjords to tolt, its fairly rare but it does happen. Most people that find these gems, never offer them for sale. 

Then of course,there are many cross breds out there.


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## Pigeon Lady (Apr 4, 2004)

Thank you all so much!! You've been very helpful.

I haven't seen him to talk to but DH spoke with him on the phone a couple of days ago and it turns out he found (and bought) a half Percheron. Don't know what the other half is but it rides and drives. He and his wife are real nice people. This was a big purchase for them and I was so worried that he would get burned by some unscrupulous horse dealer. 

Grey Mare, thank you for the offer of help. It's much appreciated. Let's hope this horse works out well for him.

Pauline


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