# Sticky  So you think you want to be a bee keeper.



## alleyyooper

Biggest question you need to ask your self is are you allergic to bee stings. I don't mean do you swell up and itch like crazy the day after. That is a normal reaction to many people. I'm talking about your tongue swelling up, getting cold sweats, and passing out. If the answer is yes to the last statement then you do not want to keep honey bees. No matter how careful you are you will get stung. 

Not going to even mention top bar hives here.

Next question is do you have the money for the first start up cost. First start up cost is going to be between $500.00 and $800.00 which depends on if you buy all your hive equipment from a supplier or build your own. For example one boughten hive body is $18.25 plus shipping and I recommend you have 4. I buy 1x12x8 boards at Lowes for $8.25 one board will make one hive body and the frame for a top cover and a nice bit left over for an inter cover too.
I recommend you start with two colonies so you can compare them and even pull brood from one strong one to perk up a weak one. I recommend you do not by a starter kit from the suppliers as it only has half of what you need for one year of keeping one colony and some stuff you just don't need.
Buy a book, I recommend Bee Keeping for Dummies, you can find it or order it at most book stores. 
After you get some bees I recommend ABC XYZ of beekeeping. A new edition is now out and selling for $40.00. I recommend you look on www.bookfinder.com for a used copy for many dollars less. One from the 80's will have things about the Vorra mites.

And yes it is we, Kare is not just a wife who goes to bee meetings with me.

Kare with a package of bees.










Kare pointing out the queen.










She is even the sole owner of her very own colony she won with raffle tickets she bought at the 2005 bee conference. 

Now time for you to digest the above.

 Al


----------



## alleyyooper

*I recommend you join a club. You can find one by goggling your state bee keeping club.*
There are two ways to buy bees for your first colonies.
One is a nucules or nuc as they are called. It consist of 4 or 5 frames with brood, a queen and about 10,000 workers and some drones. The cost runs to over $100.00 depending on the seller and if they refund some money when the nuc box is returned.










Mistake #1 only one colony.

I recommend two colonies to start with so you can compare between the two.

You just open the nuc up and place the frames with the bees in the big 10 frame brood hive with new frames and foundation to make up what the nuc doesn't have. Any bees remaining in the nuc box will fly to the new hive because of the queens scent.

 Al


----------



## alleyyooper

Another way to get your first bees is in a package. Packages are sold in 2 pound and 3 pounds, 3 pounds is the most common. They come from the southern states mostly Ga. being one of the biggest supplies states. Many have asked how many bees are in a 3 pound package. The answers range from 3500 to 10000. think it depends on how many are flying when the package is on the scales.
Cost this year are running about $70.00 on average. But you will normally not get any honey to harvest the first year as they have to draw and fill 20 frames with honey for them selves.




















I have 2 hives ready to install packages into. I do not go by the book on package installs. The books say to shake the bees to the bottom of the cage after you have loosened the cover. remove the syrup feed can and queen cage. Shake the bees from the package into the hive hang the queen cage between the frames and install the inter cover and outer cover. Insert feeder in the entrance and your finished.

I use a kinder gentler method.
I spray the girls down with syrup in the cage, shake them to the bottom after I have loosened the cover.
I take out the syrup can and queen cage and close the cover up.
I install the queen cage between the frames after removing a cork that covers up a candy blockage the workers have to eat away to release the queen. Takes them 3 to 5 days.
Once the queen cage is in place, I then turn the package so the opening is down on the top bars. I slide the cover out so the workers can go in the hive with the queen. I place a spare hive body around them and come back in 2 hours to remove the package box.














































This is a new 2006 bee yard at a tree nursery. We placed Italian bees here due to customer traffic and Italians have the reputation of being the gentiles bees you can keep. 80% of American beekeepers have Italian. 
We keep 4 breeds. Italians, Carnolian (types New World & SMR) and a hoge poge from my own breeding program.


 Al


----------



## alleyyooper

This is a wooden Benton 3 hole queen cage with the cork in place. Note the brads, Your told to remove one frame and hang the cage in the hive using this method. I do not do it that way any more.









JZBZ queen cage. I like these best since it is easier for me to get the queen in it.









Carnolian queen.









SMR Carnolian queen.









 Al


----------



## alleyyooper

Standard hive set up for one year of bee keeping in the north. From bottom board to top cover. 

bottom board screened.










2 deep brood hives (9 5/8 deep 16 1/4" wide and 19 7/8" long.










Then there are two honey (Illinois supers) hives (6 5/8 deep and same width and length. 










Or two shallow supers.










wood frames.










Real wax foundation.











Intercover.










Outercover.










The above pictures came from Brushy Mountain Bee Farm on line catalog.

Mann Lake and W. T. Kelley I have found to be good suppliers and good to deal with.
Their are also more but I just havn't delt with them, goggle beesuppliers. 

 Al


----------



## alleyyooper

Some must have tools.

Hive tool.I bought mine at ACO.









Bee Brush.









smoker. I'll talk about fuels latter. Since we travel to out yards we have a smoker box.










Some that are nice to have but not a must have. 

Frame perch. I made mine.










Frame grip.









Capping scratcher. I use 1 of mine (own several) to open drone cells and do a mite check.


















All but the last picture were from Mann Lakes on line catalog.

 Al


----------



## alleyyooper

*One other thing JOIN A CLUB. By joining a club you meet people with the same intrest as you and are willing to help newbees. Just keep in mind that if you ask 12 beekeepers a question about bees you will probably get 15 or more answers . There is always at least 3 that change their mind or can't make up their mind.*

We belong to the state club, MBA. Has district reps that cover the whole state of Michigan even DA UP.
http://www.michiganbees.org/

The region club, SEMBA. SEMBA has bee school in the spring.
http://www.sembabees.org/

And 4 local clubs with in 50 miles of us
SchoolCraft beekeepers.
Oakland beekeepers
Seven Ponds beekeepers
Mid Michigan

Before we joined a club we didn't know a beekeeper lived a half mile away from us. 

Working our bees before we joined a club was like  stumbling around in a strange dark house at night looking for a bathroom.
Ya found it but had a lot of bumps and bruses :grit:. 

 Al


----------



## mare

thanks for the valuable info Al


----------



## Reptyle

Good info...Two questions...What is the screen used for?

What is the wax for? (I always thought bees made their own)


----------



## Sunmo

Al, I'm recommending the folks on our bee club read your posts. Excellent job.

Let's see if I can get an A on Reptyle's questions:

1. Screened bottom board provides a couple extra advantages that regular bottom boards don't. If it's screened then you can increase the ventilation during the hot part of the year by removing the white checkered part. During fall,winter, and spring it helps to keep the warmth in, if you have the white checkered part in place. The white checkered part also helps you determine your mite population. If you use a powered sugar treatment the mites will fall off the bees, onto the checkered part and you can count the number of mites. If you use other methods of mite control, the dead mites will fall down through the screen, onto the white checkered part and you can count them and determine how effective your treatment was. You can also leave it opened and the mites will fall to the ground and become ant food. Hygenic bees that groom the mites off themselves, will cause the mite to fall below the screen and another bee can't walk over the mite and get it re-attached. 

2. The wax refered to is the foundation, on which the bees build their comb. A Beekeep can get wax or plastic foundation, but it has been my experience that wax foundations make the best comb. While plastic foundation will work, the bees seem to take more time to draw out the comb and it won't necessarily be consistant throughout the frame. 

How'd I do Al?


----------



## indypartridge

Nice job, Al. This thread needs to be made a 'sticky'.


----------



## alleyyooper

Sunmo I'll give you an A+, how is that.

I agree it should be a sticky but I don't think there is any one here who can do that. I've been wanting a list of the states clubs links as a sticky for along time. I think it would help people find some one in their area who may be willing to Mentor others.

If you just stuck the frames in the hive the bees would have comb at all kinds of angles and you would hardly be able to remove even one frame with out a lot of cutting. The frames provide a starting point so the bees place all the drawn comb on the frames for easy removal and most all at the same thickness. 


This is why I dislike plastic, 10 frames with plastic foundation that has been in the hive 45 days. These are the best drawn out.





































This is what it would look like if you didn't use frames and some type of foundation











 Al


----------



## alleyyooper

What about bee suits? Like plastic foundation each to their own. I and many of the other bee keepers I know do not wear them as they are to hot in the summer even when you are nakid underneath.
In the pictures above you see what Kare and I wear. Venilated helmit and veil, long sleeve dress shirt from Good Will or some other second hand shop, pig skin gloves with canvas sleeves, they keep the bees from under the cuff of your gloves and the slit of the shirts.










Kare wears leg closers all the time around bees and I do if shaking out a queenless laying worker colony, or doing a removal. Of course we wear long pants and ankle high shoes too.
By wearing abee suit I think people tend to not be as smotth and easy about their movements around the bees. I watched a fellow once who seemed to bang the frames againest the hive body every time he pulled one.


 Al


----------



## alleyyooper

Shall we talk about the smoker. Mine doesn't see a bunch of use but is lit and near at hand when I work with the girls.

Here is a handy little trick. Use a little bit of dowel 3/4 inches or bigger around, taper one end to plug the smoke port. It does two things, It stops any stray sparks from falling in a dry area on the way from the hives. It also puts the smoldering out quicker.



















Since we have a number of out yard scattered between two counties I have a smoker box to put the hot smoker in when driving between yards.










There is all kinds of stuff you can use for fuel.
Hemp baling twine, pine neddles, dry cow patties, dry horse balls, fungi, coragated card board, rotted wood logs, wood chips, burlap, Sumac berries, cedar chips and more.
I use recycled cedar chips from my doggies houses and dryed sumac berries. Several years ago American Bee Journal had a story that Sumac in the smoker had an effect on the mites who it seems can't stand the smoke.

 Al


----------



## kirkmcquest

I'm going to give it a go. I'm ordering my hives today probably from bee-commerce or brushy mountain..


----------



## alleyyooper

Placeing and painting the hives. If your not reaqll fussy about colors and dont worry about what people will think use OOPS paint. OOPs paint sells in most places for $5.00 a gallon I've even seen it at Wal Mart for that price. Any color is fine here in the north you may not want a dark color in the south or west just use exterior paint. 
Now me I use stain for decks and fences. It is $5.00 a gallon or 15 dollars for 5 gallons, home improvement stores are the best places to find the stain.
Just paint the out side and I also do the rims.

































































 Al


----------



## alleyyooper

As you can see I have my stands up 8 inches at least. When skunks and other critters come scratching at the entrance it leaves their belly exposed to the stinging bees. It is also a bit easier on your back when doing inspections. Since these pictures were taken I have raised them up another 10 inches mostly to not be bending as much when inspections are done.

You can see I also value wind breaks to the north and west. It is one of my most considered aspect when placeing hive on a property after access. Just about all our colonies set in full sun all day long. they seem to do better in the full sun and are not so app to get cranky when it is shady much of the day. If you live in an area where it gets well into the 90Fto 112F range you may want shade in the hottest part of the day.

But here in the north it is the winter winds you want proctection from.

 Al


----------



## kyleporter

I am wanting to get into beekeeping. My question is with a new hive, do I start with one hive body? And if so, when do I add a super?


----------



## tom j

Al said

If you just stuck the frames in the hive the bees would have comb at all kinds of angles and you would hardly be able to remove even one frame with out a lot of cutting. The frames provide a starting point so the bees place all the drawn comb on the frames for easy removal and most all at the same thickness. 

AL ,, I never had a problem with not putting in foundation ..
two years ago I put a med box on for honey ,, and didn't have any foundation ,, so I just put the box on with the frames in it and no foundation .. they drew the best comb you could ask for .. they had drawn it from the left front corner to the right back corner and filled the whole box this way .. :smiley-laughing013::smiley-laughing013: ,,, just my luck ... I don't have a extractor so it all worked out , had a good laugh ..the wife said "" I guess the girls showed you who is the boss ""


----------



## alleyyooper

KylePorter,
We need a location to answer some of the questions you may have. If you have read this you will notice I memtion northern and southern a lot, as well as the south west.

When installing a package of bees in New foundation you do it in a single deep even if you are planing on three mediums you start with one.

When 7 of the ten frames are drawn out you add the next hive body.

 Al


----------



## kirkmcquest

Thanks for all the info. The pics are great, you inspired me to take the plunge and I ordered 2 hives from bee-commerce yesterday. After arrival and assembly, I'm going to order one Italian set and one Russian so I can compare.


----------



## alleyyooper

So we have gotten our equipment, our bees and have them installed in hives.
*We feed 1:1 syrup since it is spring to stumilate them to build comb and get the queen laying at a rate 1000 to 1500 eggs a day.*

We keep feeding the syrup till they won't take it any more. That happens about the time the spring plants start blooming. One of the earliest is the Maple trees and Korean Box Woods. Didn't know they had flower type blooms till I had bees.

This is some of the honey bees early spring forage plants. They will fly up to 6 miles to forage on a favorite source. The average is 2 miles.
They also are into the Honey suckle 
Russian olive AKA Autum olive
Lilac
Quince 
Mountian Ash
Apple, Cherry, Plum, Pear and other fruit trees. 


 Al


----------



## alleyyooper

Some random Honey Bee facts.

Honey has antibacterial properties which combats infections and speeds the healing process.
Honey is used in burn units at hospitals.
I use honey on cuts rather than ontiments.

Honey bees are responcible for the pollination of 80% of all fruit, vegetables and seed crops in the U.S.

Honey bees are a great scientific mystery because they have remained unchanged for 20 million years even though the world has changed around them.

Honeybee colonies have unique oders that members use to identfy other bees at the hive entrance so the guard bees can recognize the entering bees.

Honeybees have to travel over 55,000 miles and visit approximently 2 million flowers to make one pound of honey.
Honey is sold by the pound measure.

A honey bee can fly approximatly 15MPH. 
Doesn't do you much good to run so might just as well stand still and remain calm. 


 Al


----------



## alleyyooper

We had these labels made at Office Depot, Just about every place else we inqured at would sort of take down our idea and send the work out and we had to buy about $75.00 to $100.00 worth of product sight unseen.
At Office Depot we got to set down at the computer with the lady and our zip drive with pictures and design what we wanted. Each labal took about 2 hours for us to get what we wanted. Set up for the first picture label was $50.00 and $25.00 each for all the others then saved to a CD. Now it cost some thing like 25 cents a sheet to print plus the paper cost. We have 1 pound queen line, 2 pound queen line, 1 pound upside down, quart, and pint along with 2 sizes of bear labels and a 3 pound jug.
Here are a couple. 

1 pound









2 pounds.





















































*Next, How we get the honey from the frames to the jars.*

 Al


----------



## alleyyooper

How do we get the honey out of the hive?

To remove the honey from the hive. I first pull a frame, look to make sure all cells are capped. If they are not all capped but are they 80% capped. If that answer is yes I pull the frame out of the hive, just as I would a fully capped one. I brush the bees off back in front of the hive with my soft bee brush. I shake the frame to see if any honey comes out. If some comes out I put the frame back. If none comes out then the moisture is at or near 18% ready to harvest.
I hand the bee less frame to kare who carries it to an empty honey super I have in the back of the truck (out yard) with a cover on it. She lifts the cover puts the frame in there, then places the cover back on. When it is full I stack another honey super for her.
There are bee escape plugs that can be used but you have to go install them then go back the next day to pull the honey supers. There is also a chemical that can be placed on what is called a fume board that has a awful smell that drives the bees from the honey super in about 15 minutes. Due to fuel cost today I don't want to have to make two trips so don't use any escapesâ. 
I also don't like the smell of the chemical myself so just take a little longer and brush the bees off one frame at a time. 
I also own a blower but Kare worryâs me to death about blowing a queen from the hive so it doesnât get used.




























 Al


----------



## alleyyooper

How we get the honey for use?

You do not need an extractor to harvest honey. When I started the bee supplier (W.T. Kelley) recommend I use cut comb foundation since we only had one colony. You take a frame full of honey fully capped out of the honey super then cut it with a hot knife into 4âx4â squares to use it after draining it.
They also said I could cut all the honey from the frame then crush it with a potato masher to strain out the wax.

By our second summer I had found a real old two frame hand crank extractor thru a fellow selling out a bunch of his old extra equipment.
We used it one year.
Then a club member called and said he had found a old retiring bee keeper selling some of his stuff from the honey house. He had a 36 frame galvanized extractor. Since we had decided to go bigger we went for a look.
We bought it along with two hot capping knifes, a capping tank , a holding tank, a crown staple gun, and the bee blower.
We used it for 2 years. 
I have lost all those pictures old pictures when image station stopped being a online photo book then a computer crash.
But we expanded to 80 colonies in those 2 years with plans to do even more. When a friend offered us his 72 frame stain less steel extractor we bought it and just love it.



















The only time I ever lift a full super of honey. From the truck to some wheeled moving carts then to the trays in the stack waiting to be uncapped .




























 Al


----------



## alleyyooper

We have the honey supers in the honey house and all set for the uncapping.
Taking a frame from the super, 










The frame in one hand, a electric heated capping knife in the other hand, we are ready.










I start at the top going down with the cut caps. Some go up when they cut. Either way after you have did a bunch your hand is tired swell as the wrist.










At the end the caps land in the cap draining tank.



























There is a lot of honey that drains from the tank before the caps are removed.

The frames go in the extractor, 72 in all for this one from W.T. Kelley. I like its auto speed up feature and the shut off at the end of the high speed spin.










 Al


----------



## alleyyooper

Once the spin cycle ends we pump the honey.










to holding/settling tanks. Each tank holds 25 gallons to one of 30 gallons. The honey sets in those tanks about 3 days then the top is skinned off this is set out for the bees to clean up as it is foam, bee parts and small chunks of wax.










From there it is ran thru a double screen strainer into 5 gallon pails, some have gates for bottling, some are also set aside for our buyers.











The rest is dumped into the 250 gallon storage tank for latter sale. 

 Al


----------



## booker81

Hey Al! (I remember you from the ThunderBucks board) 

I want to get into beekeeping, but had some questions....

How often do you have to "tend" the hives? I have no real desire to be stung daily, but wouldn't mind every now and then. 

Are there any laws about selling honey "roadside", like I do my eggs?

There is someone close by me who is selling off a lot of bee keeping things, are there any issues with used stuff (boxes etc). Do they need some sort of disinfection? I saw the mite in the pictures above - is that a concern when buying used?

Thanks!
Jen


----------



## kirkmcquest

Hey Booker, I'm no expert but I found a lot of those answers in the book 'beekeeping for dummies'. I'm about 3/4ths of the way through it...anyway they say you should tend your hives like once every 2 weeks because everytime you disturb them it sets them back a few days.


----------



## booker81

Thank you! I'll definately get a copy of that book. 

Now to inform my poor husband I want bees.....have to do my research first though!


----------



## kirkmcquest

The crazy thing is that a lot of people order their bees in jan./feb. so it can be tough to get them now. You CAN find them but I recommend moving really fast...like NOW. You can probably still find someone selling bees on craigslist or by calling local apiaries ( thats how I found mine). You'll send them a check and probably pick up in early May, so you'll have time to get set up after you order them.


----------



## alleyyooper

booker81 said:


> Hey Al! (I remember you from the ThunderBucks board)
> 
> I want to get into beekeeping, but had some questions....
> 
> How often do you have to "tend" the hives? I have no real desire to be stung daily, but wouldn't mind every now and then.
> 
> Are there any laws about selling honey "roadside", like I do my eggs?
> 
> There is someone close by me who is selling off a lot of bee keeping things, are there any issues with used stuff (boxes etc). Do they need some sort of disinfection? I saw the mite in the pictures above - is that a concern when buying used?
> 
> Thanks!
> Jen



Yup guilty and have been caught away from TB.

*Amount of time inspecting*

We inspect the hive less than the books say but ours are scattered over 2 counties, fuel prices you know. You shouldn't get stung every time you go into the hive just do as the books recommend work slow and easy, don't be banging frames againest the hive bodies or dropping them.

*Selling honey in Michigan*

In Michigan we do have the cottage food industry law on selling honey.
You have to have a licenced inspected honey house to sell honey at flea, farmer markets or any other place away from home. They did modify that law a bit last fall. You can sell at the above places a small amount provideed you have a label saying your processing station is not licenced. You can how every sell as much as you want from your door step. 


*Buying used.*

Many people will tell you not buy used hive bodies and frames nor drawn comb as they could be disesed. I my self didn't take that advice and have bought hunrders of hive bodies frames and honey supers used. I do have a method of cleaning them for use.
Hive bodies, honey supers, intercovers and top covers should be scorched with a torch. I then sand them inside and out and repaint.
Frames are cleaned of all wax (melt the wax down in a solar melter amnd sell it.) then they soaked in a 30 gallon barrel with a 4:1 water & bleach mix for at least 3 days. Remove them rince in warm to hot water and allow to dry.

Mites are not from buying used. They are normal in the USA now. they appear to come with packages and nucs. Even treating them you can not get rid of them all. Read the supplier stuff on treatments, they say stuff like, kill up to 98%.

From Gladwin auction sale.










From the Clio sale. One truck load of honey jars. Two of hive bodies one of package boxes and assorted stuff.



















Since you are in Michigan go to this web page ([url]http://www.michiganbees.org/[/url]) and you may be able to find some one near you to teach you. Also SEMB has a program of teaching ([url]http://www.sembabees.org/[/url]).


[B]Next how to harvest honey with out an extractor. [/B]


:D Al


----------



## mare

alleyyooper said:


> *Next how to harvest honey with out an extractor. *
> 
> 
> since i dont have an extractor (am not getting honey this year anyways) and i am not going to be big this is very interesting--cant wait to see it. and i wont ask any questions now--i am betting you will answer them before asked . but i do have one question--if i do get a little bit of honey on some honey super frames would i just keep it till next year and put back on the hive?


----------



## alleyyooper

*Harvesting honey with out your own extractor.*

Many start up bee keepers find the investment in an extractor for the first couple of years some thing they don't want to do. Many do not know how long they will like keeping bees or how many hives they will end up with so don't have a clue what size to buy either.
Joining a club as I have said before is a excellant investment. Not only do you meet people who will help guide you in your indevor, but some clubs have extractors they loan or rent to members. There maybe members with their own extractors that will extract your honey for a fee or on shares. *When doing the share route keep in mind that the capping wax has value too.* I sell out of capping wax faster than I do honey and for more money per pound.

If you find nothing like that all is still not lost.

You can go the crush and strain method. Use a wax foundation with out wire supports. Cut the honey and wax from the frames into a large bowl or pail. Smash it down with some thing like a potato masher then strain it thru some thing like chesee cloth then thru some thing finer if you find bits of wax bigger than you wish in it.

There is also several ways of getting cut comb honey. Some come as a set up for the honey super so all you have to do is release the honey and comb from the form. Examples are Ross Rounds and Hoggs honey and the old stand by balsa wood sections.
Easier and cheaper method is to cut the honey from a frame in manageable squares then box or package it up some other way.

The draw back to these methods is the bees having to draw out the foundation every year, which cuts into the amount of product they produce.

There are examples of home made extractors to be found on the net if you search hard enough. Most how ever have some problem you have to over come.

Any questions?

 Al


----------



## AverageJo

I noticed that you have your frames in your extractor with the top on the outside. I hadn't thought about that before as I had put them in my 2-frame extractor whatever way they they get handed to me. Is the wax drawn in such a way that it is tilted to the top instead of straight out? This would then make sense as it would be easier to get out if you spun it so that it flowed up and out. My "a-ha" moment for today.


----------



## alleyyooper

Cells are formed at a 13 degree angle (up). That is why the the top bars are faceing out in our radial extractor. Basket extractors are spun so that the force is on the bottom bars streaming honey out behind the spinning top bars.

 Al


----------



## thequeensblessing

Great discussion. Remember though, there are two other ways to get your bees besides buying a nuc or a package. You can buy an entire hive (deep brood box, 10 frames, top board, inner cover, and bottom board) for about $220.00 from companies like Dadant. You can also get on a swarm list and pick up a swarm. Around here, our bee group keeps a swarm list for it's members and when there's a swarm call, we simply go down the list. Newbies can often be paired with an experienced beekeeper in hiving a first swarm. We have 4 members that I am aware of, who started their apiaries by catching swarms. Don't overlook beekeepers who are getting out of the business either. You don't find them terribly often, but they are out there. In the past 10 years, we've known of 2 who have offered all their hives and equipment for sale at great prices. We personally bought 8 hives, each 4 boxes high, loaded with honey and brood and needing to be split, for $150.00 per hive. The man just wanted out. Last year our bee group was offered bees, two deep boxes high, loaded with brood and needing new boxes desperately, for $75.00 each. He was giving away extra frames and boxes if you bought bees. This is a great way to get started too.


----------



## ScrumblyFarms

They should make this thread sticky. Thanks so much for all of the info.


----------



## alleyyooper

back up top


----------



## tom j

well Al I raised 2 queens of my own have .. 1 hive that is queenless ( I think ),, but I paid for 2 queens and have the girls taking care of them so tomorrow I will go through the one I think is queenless and if no queen then I will put one in ,, and will pull afew frames from the other 2 and make a nuc so I will end up with 6 hives eather way .. Bonnie says no more queens unless there is no way out :lookout:,, so guess as far as queens I'm going to have to raise my own from here on out .. 
Bonnie said see just let the girls take care of making there own queen's , and stay out of there way .


----------



## alleyyooper

Glad that the queen rearing worked out for you Tom. Collected our 3d swarm of the yeaqr this morning. The easiest of the year. About 5 feet up on a pine tree limb. set the hive body and frames on my folding table and they just marched in.

 Al


----------



## alleyyooper

Still needs to be a sticky.

 Al


----------



## tom j

Al ,, I have been wanting to ask you something for about a week now .. I have been feeding the hives and have been using zip lock bags ,, but thought I would give jars a shot again , I think I'm going to go back to the jars , (short store ) but not getting in to that now .. now what I wanted to ask is on two hives I thought I would also retry my feeders I got the first year I had a hive ,,, ( the top feeder with the slot in the middle and screen ) I put them on hives one took the syrup slow but did take it , it took 3 days but it did take it ,, the other has had a gal on for all of a week and still has about a pint ,, its a good heavy hive , but I'm woundering could it be full ??? and no room . this is what I'm hoping , I have never had one stop taking feed .


----------



## alleyyooper

Tom, In the spring the bees stop taking syrup for a couple of reasons. One they are bringing in nectar they like better than the syrup and the second is a full hive.
I would bet the hive is full when they stop taking it in the fall too, although I would suspect they will take it on and off as cells empty and temps are high enough they are active.

 Al


----------



## tom j

yea , in the spring had them stop but not in the fall .some times my mind get's going on one thing and never does connect with the whole thought .. that was my thinking ,, that they would take on and off as cells open .. but i'm going to stop feeding them , they are at 150 , 150 , 155 ,145 pounds ,, but I do not want them to end up with a lot of moisture for winter ..


----------



## sevenmmm

What is the smallest amount of bees that can overwinter? I have one that I built a month ago in the event one of the main hives lost a queen. It has, maybe 2 frames of bees right now.


----------



## alleyyooper

No body can answer that question with the information you have provided. There is a big difference in winter climate between Michigan and Flordia. There is even a big difference between southern Michigan and the UPPER.

 Al


----------



## sevenmmm

Oh. Right. Sorry. I am in Manitowoc Wisconsin. 

And I do have a small cabin on 40 acres in yooperland! So I know what you are typing about with UPPER...:runforhills:


----------



## alleyyooper

In Wisconsin You might as well set your mind to looseing those bees and think about getting a new set up next spring.

You may get lucky if they have 2 deeps of honey for the winter the snow is deep enough to insulate the hive and some LUCK. I have seen some weird stuff happen with the girls.


 Al


----------



## alleyyooper

The end to 2011 is near just a matter of hours away.
Many will now be thinking of getting some bees of their own soon for the spring.
So with that in mind I decided to bring this post to the top again.
I would also like to comment on this weather. Not good for our bees at all. So warm with nothing in bloom, they are looking nearly every day with out luck. but they are using more enegery so are there fore using more honey. Be mind full of the hives and lift them every so often.

Happy New Year every one and may 2012 be better than 2011.

 Al


----------



## tom j

Happy new year ,to all you happy keeps .. 

Al ,, so far so good ,, all 5 hives still tell me ,, stop a knocking , or we start a stock-en ,, :fussin: the one I know only has a small chance to make it but ,, we will see .. at the get together ,, my daughter in law told me she wants jamie to get a hive again ,, so we will see .. happy new year


----------



## tom j

I know it sounds odd ,, but the wife and I both miss the occasional girl that gets in the house ,, here if a girl gets in ,,every one likes it , in fact some times the grand kids bring a few in just for fun ... I know the whole family is nutty ,, but we were born in it ,, the in laws volunteer .. now who's nutty-er us or the in laws ???


----------



## alleyyooper

Cold has finally hit this part of Michigan. Not going to last as forecast temps for Thursday and Friday is back in the 40F range. 

Looking out the living room window I see at least 7 deer laying below the hill on the path out of the wind chewing their cuds. Looking out the window we call Luckies room I see at least 3 deer laying below the hill in the wild plumb patch also chewing their cuds.

Happy New Year all.

 Al


----------



## AverageJo

Things here in NW Illinois are still warm. Supposed to be 55 today, so I took an opportunity to check on the girls and feed them. Only have 4 hives, but all 4 had bees in them. One had bees coming and going and was very active, two flew out to investigate when I opened their lid. The 4th, however, only had a couple peek their heads out the top when I added the feed. Didn't have a buzz to the hive even when I knocked. I doubt that that hive will make it, but 3 out of 4 isn't bad. Now if they'll just stay alive until spring as I think we'll get that winter weather yet!!


----------



## tom j

well ,, my 5 hives are still plugging a long ,, did not think the little one would make it til xmas ,,, but still buzzing ,, the others are still heavy so I think thy will be ok , and they have a big hunk of candy on top ... 
Mare are you still dropping by now and then ?? hope your doing ok ..


----------



## alleyyooper

Its the time of year people start thinking of getting bees.

 Al


----------



## tom j

I hope this year I can have my bees and my money to , They are still buzzing at me , so they made it this far .. If they do make it ,, I'm going to try queen rearing .. this summer I have a few things in mind to try , so I hope to learn eather what not to do , or what to do ,, but I hope the girls don't end up paying to dearly for my screw ups ..


----------



## BobbyB

The San Antonio area beekeepers club meeting is in about 3 weeks. Karla and I are planning to go and see who we can meet, what we can learn and take it from there.

I was kind of surprised when she said she was interested, but again she has always been game for my new adventures.


----------



## alleyyooper

When Your ready to raise some queens Tom give me a call if you still have my number.If you don't let me know and I will call you.

Don't wait to long to get your bees, Most times packages are sold out by March and a lot of Nuc's are spoken for too.


 Al


----------



## tom j

Al ,,, yes I do have your number ,, I did get a good battery , so now the phone is working ,, things have been going from morn til night here from right after xmas ,, befor one thing gets done another starts ,,now last wed got a call that my second mom ( a aunt ) had some strokes ,, and is real bad ,, they took all life support off ,, ......... I think my girls will make it ,, I have candy on and will put pattys on this week .. every time I tell Bon that this week end I'm going to call Al ,, some more crap hits the fan ,, ,, its got to end some time ..


----------



## alleyyooper

Call any evening and you will catch me at home. I know what your saying about doing things and the fan kicks in.
Trying to do all the right stuff which is mostly sitting on my back side while I wait for my eye to heal up. Might get off the lifting restriction after Fridays appointment. 
I want to build some more hive top feeders and a couple more nucs.

 Al


----------



## alleyyooper

Time for this to go to the top again. *To bad it isn't a sticky*.
I know some pictures no longer show. Try right clicking on the red X and choise show picture from the menu. If that doesn't work ask me about the picture subject and I'll see if I can repost it.


 Al


----------



## alleyyooper

Time for this to go to the top again. *To bad it isn't a sticky*.
I know some pictures no longer show. Try right clicking on the red X and choise show picture from the menu. If that doesn't work ask me about the picture subject and I'll see if I can repost it.


 Al


----------



## ganoosh

I agree this should be a sticky. I have been thinking of getting bees and might actually go for it this spring and this thread has helped fill in some info that i was wondering. A quick question about wind protection, where I plan on placing the bees will be protected from the north but nothing in the southwest, which is where most of my wind comes from. Would a stack of straw bales or some sage brush be enough of a windbreak for the hives? I have seen other hives in the areas with no protection but it can get in the single digits and pretty strong winds, 50+ when storms roll in.

Thanks


----------



## alleyyooper

Yes a single row 2 high stack of straw bales works fine as a wind break. We used them for several years at one out yard where we could not put up a privicy fence wind block.

Also If you are planing on getting bees this year now is the time to start shopping andf getting the order in. 
I have already seen $80.00 for 3 pound packages. $110.00 for nucs.

 Al


----------



## francismilker

Where would you advise the best place for me to buy some nucs with bees? I live in SE Oklahoma and don't want them to travel too far. Also, can I get nucs (with bees) shipped via commercial carrier. I have three hives with bees that I've been wintering and have built 3 more hives over the winter to get bees in. I'd just like to start with nucs though for the strength of the colony.


----------



## alleyyooper

You have 3 hives correct? Make or buy some pollen patties to put on them as soon as you get a 50F day with little wind. That will build them up quickly. Then when it warms to a steady 60F out, buy 3 queens, take 5 frames from each hive to make your own nuc starts.

Or look up your states main bee club they will probably have a list of persons selling nucs.

 Al


----------



## francismilker

alleyyooper said:


> You have 3 hives correct? Make or buy some pollen patties to put on them as soon as you get a 50F day with little wind. That will build them up quickly. Then when it warms to a steady 60F out, buy 3 queens, take 5 frames from each hive to make your own nuc starts.
> 
> Or look up your states main bee club they will probably have a list of persons selling nucs.
> 
> Al


Awesom suggestion! Thanks!!!! Yes, I have three hives that seem to be doing well. I've considered "splitting" them with new store bought queens like you suggest. Here's a question: When I rob 5 frames from an existing hive, do I introduce the queen just like I would when buying a set of package bees with queen? I'm much a novice but want to go about it the correct way.


----------



## alleyyooper

You leave the queen in the cage and install it in the hive. I do not poke a hole in the candy just take the cork out of the benton 3 hole cage. The JZBZ plastic cage just install.

Benton 3 hole cage.



















JZBZ plastic cage.










 Al


----------



## tom j

you will want to leave the 5 frames with out a queen for a day or they might kill her off


----------



## francismilker

tom j said:


> you will want to leave the 5 frames with out a queen for a day or they might kill her off


 
I'm a novice, but I've always understood that in the amount of time it takes the bees to eat the candy plug in the queen cage they except her by that time. Doesn't it take a few days to remove the candy?


----------



## alleyyooper

somne people think it takes a day or so for the colony to relize they are queen less. 
I think they know after a half hour of so. 
But to be on the safe side I suggest not messing with the candy and letting the bees work the queen loose. By the time they get to her they usally have relized her scent is the only queen scent in the hive.

Bye the way you can take those 5 frames out of the one hive and install it in another 10 frame hive just put the 5 frames in the middle and the frames of foundation on the outside edges.

 Al


----------



## JanO

I just found this thread and really wish it was a sticky. Having said that I hope it's not too late to ask some questions. Every year we have 2 swarms come through and land in the same tree. Last spring, late May and again in June, we had someone come out to collect them since we knew nothing about beekeeping. Since then we've been considering beekeeping for the honey. Not to sell, but perhaps we'd give some away to family and friends. We've also been encouraged by several people and just yesterday by a wonderful gentleman we met and bought some honey from who has been keeping bees for 30 or 40 years. So now I'm doing some research and trying to figure all this stuff out, thus this thread has been a great source of information. 

I'm full of questions but what I'm curious about now is whether or not it's wise someone just beginning to start with a swarm, or better to buy bees?
Also, I live in the Pacific NW and we get A LOT of rain and wind from the SW in the winter. We also get snow, but not too much and it usually doesn't last longer than a week at a time, if that. I have about 5 acres that's wooded and am planning on placing the hives along the tree line, south facing, where they'd get warmth in the summer, but would have little protection from the wind and rain in the winter. I could put them inside the wooded area which would offer them some protection in the winter, but not so much sunlight in the summer. I know I'm not anywhere close to having to deal with these issues yet, but if we're going to do this I don't want to have to move hives as the seasons change. Am I making too much of this or ???


----------



## alleyyooper

You will be fine starting with a swarm. Keep in mind the swarm most likely will have a old queen so you will need to do inspections more often to make sure she is laying. If you find queen cells in the hive leave them be as the girls are going to replace the old queen.

Putting on the tree line to get the sun would be my choice on where to place them. Just make sure they are far enough out to give you room to work and not so far out the wind will drop over the trees hitting the hives full force.

Find a beekeeping club near you. They are a exellant soursce for some one to call in case of emengency.

:grin: Al


----------



## Kmac15

Or, you can do as my husband. Become a beekeeper, join a club and be voted president for 2 years, design and build a top bar hive, get stung dozens of time over the years... then get one extra sting as you are moving a hive and suddenly swell up like a balloon and wind up in the ER in allergic shock. Anyone want to buy some bee equipment LOL


----------



## Harrier

Is Kara referred to as "honey"?


----------



## alleyyooper

In the USA honey is honey.

 Al


----------



## Deborah Moses

That's it. I'm going to love this forum. I will be reading all of your beekeeping stuff as soon as I have time. I'm very interested in learning more about the subject. We are attempting to homestead our 12 acres here in the Missouri Ozarks, and one thing my husband and I both agree on is bees!


----------



## siberian

Brijsek said:


> This is a great thread for those thinking about diving into beekeeping! Thanks for the information.



O.K., but don't rely on this alone. Clubs, books, websites, county inspectors.... Great deal of info out there.


----------



## LoneWolf1970

I have a question. If you want bees to use as Pollinators, do you have to collect the honey? If so how often?


----------



## alleyyooper

No you do not have to collect the honey if you only want pollinators. Unless you had a good stack of deeps they would probably swarm a lot as the queen needs room to lay. That is there natural way to increase populations.

If you want the honey we collect twice a year. First time late June early July second time just before Labor day week end.


 Al


----------



## LoneWolf1970

alleyyooper said:


> No you do not have to collect the honey if you only want pollinators. Unless you had a good stack of deeps they would probably swarm a lot as the queen needs room to lay. That is there natural way to increase populations.
> 
> If you want the honey we collect twice a year. First time late June early July second time just before Labor day week end.
> 
> 
> Al


Thank you I might eventually start collecting the honey but right now I just want a little extra help to make sure everything else gets done with my garden


----------



## sweetbabyjane

Hi Al,
Your post is so exciting! Have you seen this?

https://www.honeyflow.com/

What do you think of it?
SBJ


----------



## alleyyooper

Sure seems funny not many people have ever seen a flow hive and you sure don't read about them in any of the bee forums I read and belong to.

Even here on this site most think it is a gimic to sell people junk.

If I were a new person wanting to get into honeyu bees I would contact the states honey bee club. even the regional club and find a near by club and join it. shut up and learn at the meetings devlope friend ships with people with long time experince and pick their brains for information.

I am still in bussiness today because of bee club friends.

 Al


----------



## Alice In TX/MO

I have no idea why my pictures load sideways. That is a few of my bees on my water feature.


----------



## Mt Silverback

Loved keeping bee's.. 
I had a chance to pickup a bunch of used hives from a friend that just wanted them gone. Had hives that thrived during the summer and would loose them during the winter. Biggest problem I would have was the bears and hornets. Electric fence helped with the bears and me standing out there with a fly swatter worried the hornets some.


----------



## Alice In TX/MO

My bees are doing well. We are about to add a medium box.


----------



## Naimah Abdullah

alleyyooper said:


> Biggest question you need to ask your self is are you allergic to bee stings. I don't mean do you swell up and itch like crazy the day after. That is a normal reaction to many people. I'm talking about your tongue swelling up, getting cold sweats, and passing out. If the answer is yes to the last statement then you do not want to keep honey bees. No matter how careful you are you will get stung.
> 
> Not going to even mention top bar hives here.
> 
> Next question is do you have the money for the first start up cost. First start up cost is going to be between $500.00 and $800.00 which depends on if you buy all your hive equipment from a supplier or build your own. For example one boughten hive body is $18.25 plus shipping and I recommend you have 4. I buy 1x12x8 boards at Lowes for $8.25 one board will make one hive body and the frame for a top cover and a nice bit left over for an inter cover too.
> I recommend you start with two colonies so you can compare them and even pull brood from one strong one to perk up a weak one. I recommend you do not by a starter kit from the suppliers as it only has half of what you need for one year of keeping one colony and some stuff you just don't need.
> Buy a book, I recommend Bee Keeping for Dummies, you can find it or order it at most book stores.
> After you get some bees I recommend ABC XYZ of beekeeping. A new edition is now out and selling for $40.00. I recommend you look on www.bookfinder.com for a used copy for many dollars less. One from the 80's will have things about the Vorra mites.
> 
> And yes it is we, Kare is not just a wife who goes to bee meetings with me.
> 
> Kare with a package of bees.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Kare pointing out the queen.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> She is even the sole owner of her very own colony she won with raffle tickets she bought at the 2005 bee conference.
> 
> Now time for you to digest the above.
> 
> Al


----------



## Karl Johan

Seems like there's more work to bee-keeping than I thought. I still want to get into it one day though .


----------



## alleyyooper

Yes honey bees require work, but it is rewarding work.

Al


----------



## Wyobuckaroo

Here in the far north west bush there have always been a small number of bee keepers... 
Location, Location. Location seems to be a major issue with being able to keep bees.. Many things from predators to winter make it extremely hard to keep bees here.. We have a neighbor who is a master bee keeper and even he has a hard time keeping hives doing well.. I used to routinely hear his 300 magnum in defense of his bees from bears... Don't waste time mentioning electric fence as if it isn't strong enough to hold bison or hardened felony prisoners, bears will walk through it like a picket fence.. I've seen the wreckage they do.. 

Anyway.. It seems a lot more farm, hardware and other stores are stocking bee equipment that indicates a surge in interest in this area.. This is good, but makes me think only a small percent of those who get into it now will be a continuing success.. I expect to see a lot of used bee equipment at garage sales and listed to sell late this season and surely by next spring as many give up on doing this..


----------



## siberian1

Wyobuckaroo said:


> Here in the far north west bush there have always been a small number of bee keepers...
> Location, Location. Location seems to be a major issue with being able to keep bees.. Many things from predators to winter make it extremely hard to keep bees here.. We have a neighbor who is a master bee keeper and even he has a hard time keeping hives doing well.. I used to routinely hear his 300 magnum in defense of his bees from bears... Don't waste time mentioning electric fence as if it isn't strong enough to hold bison or hardened felony prisoners, bears will walk through it like a picket fence.. I've seen the wreckage they do..
> 
> Anyway.. It seems a lot more farm, hardware and other stores are stocking bee equipment that indicates a surge in interest in this area.. This is good, but makes me think only a small percent of those who get into it now will be a continuing success.. I expect to see a lot of used bee equipment at garage sales and listed to sell late this season and surely by next spring as many give up on doing this..



Probably correct that much will be for sale. Same as gardening tool, canning jars and anything else that one needs to put effort into. Not sure how many new gardens we seen last year that were overgrown mess half way through the year. Bees are work and require care that many folks are not willing to give.


----------

