# the new calf (and problems with him)



## marytx (Dec 4, 2002)

I bought this little steer at auction today, and was pretty pleased with myself until I got him home and tried to get him to take a bottle.:help:

He is not remotely interested, and I have not been able to get him to suck at all, even at my fingers. I held the bottle in him mouth for quite awhile, several times, and got him, at the last to chew at it only a little, and to swallow a little now and again. Most of the bottle went down his chin.

DH saw that he drank water from a bucket, and didn't think he should fill up on that, so I moved out the water bucket and gave him milk in a bucket. No, he wasn't interested. Not interested in feed, either.

He likes to eat hay, and, as far as I can tell, that is all. But he's way too small for me to think he will thrive on hay and water.

One issue we noticed right away when we got him home is that his nose is peeling and very raw. And he seems a little congested. We think that might be part of his problem with nursing.

We have given him a dose of Biomycin.

Of course I will work with him again in the morning, but does anyone have suggestions?

His poops are fine, no diarrhea, and I have seen him pee good.

thanks, mary


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## springvalley (Jun 23, 2009)

I think maybe he could be weaned allready, or taken away from his mom. Just try and get some sweet feed in front of him , he may start nibbling at it. keep an eye on him and make sure he keeps drinking and eating. Good Luck, Thanks > Marc


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## springvalley (Jun 23, 2009)

Oh, and get rid of the halter that doesn`t fit. > Thanks Marc


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## marytx (Dec 4, 2002)

Haha, yea, the halter's already gone. It did, though, help me get ahold of him a few times. 

I did put a little sweet feed in front of him, and forced a little in his mouth. No, he's not interested, though I left a little down. Surely he wasn't just weaned to hay. (?) I don't get it. I don't think he's nearly big enough to have been weaned.

We'll try again in the morning.


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## myersfarm (Dec 24, 2004)

nose pelling shows me he has a fever 
check temp.. should be 101.3 with in a degree
.. if he is really hot the milk will be souring in his stomach

I would deffenly put back the water


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## Valmai (Sep 29, 2004)

I've had the odd calf over the years that decided to wean themselves too early. Here are some of the things I remember trying (but can't remember which worked and which didn't) Is the milk warm or cold, offer him warm milk. Wipe some molassas on his nose for him to lick, and once he starts loving that, water it down mix in a little milk and try feeding him that. Perhaps he will take apples, or carrots. Any thing that can help reintroduce him to milk will help. Check his mouth and teeth, he may be in pain when he tries to drink. Perhaps he needs to be tubed to get the energy to start feeding again. Keep offering clean water. Can you get some high protein calf meal?


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## Ronney (Nov 26, 2004)

Mary, I'm sorry but that is a shocking looking calf. I can see all his ribs, his hips are sticking out and he's skin and bone. He's not had milk for quite some time and your unlikely to get him to drink it now.

Nose peeling can mean something or nothing and I wouldn't worry about it too much because while his body condition is not good, he appears to be bright and alert. Put him out on pasture asap, put the water back and give him high quality sweet feed/calf meal along with his hay. He may take a few days to get the hang of sweet feed but he will get it. BTW, if all he's eating is hay, he needs the water.

He's going to take a while to come right but I see no reason as to why he shouldn't. It's just a pity his previous idiot owner didn't do better by him.

Cheers,
Ronnie


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## topside1 (Sep 23, 2005)

Mary, I think he's older then you think. My guess is 10 weeks old. By the amount of hay he's eating and his size...Here's what I'd do. I'd pen him up tight, offer sweet feed 24/7 from a hanging feeder so he doesn't knock it over. If he acts wild then he's been in the pasture with his mama. The reason for the red nose is probably that it's sunburned. Most pink nosed do the same thing if shade is not available. Penning him up tight will also calm him down and give you a chance to monitor his progress. Guess you could keep trying to feed MR but he looks weaned. The cow may have dried up early and the owner sent him to auction....If you had is micro paddock (1/4 acre) with grass, well that is where I'd let him live. With shelter of course...Topside


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## marytx (Dec 4, 2002)

Thanks, Topside. I have him in just that sort of place. I sold the bucklings first yesterday, so he is in the little buck coop behind the barn. It has a small field and access to the hay rack inside the barn. Right now I have him just inside the barn with the gate closed to the field because I thought if I let him out I might not be able to catch him. I want to be able to handle him for a few days and try to tame him to me. 

I believe you are right that he has been a pasture calf. He came through with a very large group of very young stocker calves, most weighing between 200 and 300 pounds. He only weighed in at about 115, so I figured he was younger and would eventually warm up to a bottle. Maybe and maybe not. I got a little down him this morning, but not much, and he didn't exactly suck, just drank a little that trickled into his mouth. He did chew it a little.

I didn't know that about the pink noses. I put bag balm on it this morning, and he didn't seem to mind it.


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## topside1 (Sep 23, 2005)

Sounds like you have things under control. Getting high protein grains into his system would be my first priority. If he eats hay he will surely eat grain. Also it looks like he has lots of fly bites on him another sign he's been born and raised in the pasture. Keep him out of the sun and grain free choice for a few days, get to know each other and then release him into the paddock....enough said...bye.


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## Allen W (Aug 2, 2008)

topside1 is on the right track. I would get some calf manna or sur-blum, a kent feed/evergreen product, and start him on that following the label directions. Put some hay in a pan and a little feed on top of the hay to get him started eating the feed. He may or may not ever take a bottle keep trying for a few days and see what happens.

Forgot to say nice looking calf. He is a little pot gutted so I would say he has been taking care of himself with out a lot of milk from the cow. He hasn't been hurt by it though.


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## marytx (Dec 4, 2002)

Thanks. I've switched him to a caprine nipple and have got him taking maybe a pint to a pint and a half, three times so far today. But it is with a lot of effort. It takes me about an hour of coaxing and holding the bottle, rubbing his neck, etc., to get that much down him. Right now I am just popping a nibble of sweet horse feed in his mouth afterwards, because that's what I have. But if, hopefully, he is still alive when I go to town in a day or two I will pick up some calf feed.

I figure the next few days are going to be touch and go.

At least he's getting used to me.


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## topside1 (Sep 23, 2005)

Sounds like progress to me. Just imagine his journey to your farm...no herd, no mama, new nipple, new milk taste, new surroundings...he'll be fine with your care...Topside


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## tammy8701 (Oct 18, 2008)

check him for Pneumonia sometimes when they have a hay belly they will have Pneumonia l deal with over 60 calves a year thats what we raise bottle feeding calfs, what l do with new calfs is they get there milk in morning electric lights at lunch and milk at nite l do this for 2 weeks never lost a calf to scours or being sick good luck


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## Tom in TN (Jun 12, 2007)

Mary,

Are you familiar with a disease called Infectious Bovine Rhinotectritis (or something like that). It's usually just called IBR. But it is commonly referred to as "Red Nose". One of the symptoms of IBR is an inflammed muzzle (nose).

I've never dealt with the disease but it's part of my vaccination regime. You might want to google IBR and see if sounds possible that your calf is infected.

Hopefully not.

Good luck,

Tom in TN


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## Ronney (Nov 26, 2004)

Mary, why do you think he's going to die? While a scungy looking calf, he's managed thus far to keep himself alive and I see no good reason as to why he shouldn't continue to do so. Your photo shows a bright, alert calf.

I don't like to put an age on calves via a photo, but agree with others he is possibly between 8 and 10 weeks old. I also think he probably hasn't had milk for some time. Trying to force him to drink it now is a waste of your time and unlikely to do much good. If he has been pasture reared, it's been grass that has kept him alive so put him out on grass - that is what his gut is used to - and put him on the best that you have. Bring him in in the evening and lock him up with water and whatever you use as calf feed until he gets used to it. Don't try and make him eat calf feed as a stand alone diet, this has to be done gradually.

Also, have you wormed him? Normally calves are not drenched until they are weaned but under the circumstances I would bet that this little fellow is full of them.

Cheers,
Ronnie


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## marytx (Dec 4, 2002)

Ronney, my fear of him dying is only based on sad experience being that I don't know that much about cattle. In the past I have gotten what I thought was a good deal because the ranchers didn't bid me up only to realize there was a reason they weren't bidding. They saw something I didn't, and I lost the calf because it was not thrifty.

Tom, thanks, I looked up IBR. The only symptom he really seems to have is the raw, somewhat snotty nose, which could be from a number of other things. So I'm not going to stress about that just yet.

Tammy, the antibiotic we have started him on is Biomycin. Do you think that is sufficient? I also have Pennicilin on hand.

Topside, thanks so much for the encouragement.


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## tammy8701 (Oct 18, 2008)

l dont know what Biomycin is here in canada we have different drugs but a course of Pennicilin may help we give ours nulfor depends on weight to give them and 1.5 of bammine and 1.5 b12 mix together for 3 days this helps with appetite, l wish l lived closer to you to help you


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## Ronney (Nov 26, 2004)

Mary, farming is a learning curve and some of it can be pretty hard but unless I am very much mistaken, this calf is not going to keel over. He's a survivor and while it's going to take him some time to get to where he should be, he will get there with your help.

Also, Topside is right, stress is hard on calves and everything being equal, this fellow is probably doing very well - he hasn't develped scours (yet), is hoeing into his hay and making the best of a bad job. Personally, if he were mine, I would forget the milk and give him access to as much grass as he wanted, hay, calf feed and water and warm housing if he wants it.

I've reared some absolute goners as calves, things that other people have given up on and while I lost some, most survived. When I look back on it, it was the lack of interference that was probably the deciding factor. They were given a house with bedding, hay, water and I did whatever had to be done to keep them clean and fed but kept handling to a minimum rather than stress them out with too much TLC.

Good luck with him.

Cheers,
Ronnie


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## linn (Jul 19, 2005)

Mary, why not try to get some liquid electrolytes down the calf? If he is suffering from dehydration, this should help. It won't hurt him.


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## marytx (Dec 4, 2002)

Sadly, this one is not going to make it without a lot of TLC. He may or may not make it with it. Here the other thing. Every time I went out yesterday he was laying down. He is a baby, but still, I don't like the look of an animal always laying down, so every time I went out, I coaxed him to get up and walk around a little. I think maybe the whole going through auction and coming home in an open trailer (though it was a very warm day) overstressed an already not up to par animal.

This morning when I went out, he was down, breathing kind of hard, and I couldn't get him up. I had DH come out and give him a shot of penicillin, then I lifted his head and stuck the bottle in. He did actually suck. It was very slow, with resting, and trying again. I got, again, about a pint and a half down him, but he did seem to appreciate that.

Afterwards, he stood up, and he peed. Good, right?

If I can coax this baby to live, I will. If not, if won't be for lack of trying, anyway.


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## marytx (Dec 4, 2002)

linn said:


> Mary, why not try to get some liquid electrolytes down the calf? If he is suffering from dehydration, this should help. It won't hurt him.


Thanks. I don't have electrolytes on hand. I've always thought it was better for a ruminant just to put milk in the tummy. (?)


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## thequeensblessing (Mar 30, 2003)

What do his bowel movements look like Mary? He may reject milk for a reason. He sounds a lot like a little angus calf we brought home from the market last year. He too was skinny, big bellied, wouldn't drink milk unless I forced him to. The more he drank, the sicker he got. The vet finally came out and diagnosed him with rumen acidosis and said to take him off all milk and only feed him grain and hay and that he'd eventually eat enough of both to pull out of it. Someone here suggested feeding him scrambled eggs with yogurt. I did both (he LOVED the eggs and would devour them!) I also fed him bread by hand. He did pull through when I stopped the milk. The vet said it's not that uncommon as one might think.


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## marytx (Dec 4, 2002)

Interesting thought. Thanks, Dona. Right now, as I said, he is pretty much down. He's not nibbling anything today, so I figure whatever I can get in him is good.

Oh, his bowel movements are still very good. Though I have not seen him poop today, they were fine last night, and I did not see anything loose this morning.


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## Ronney (Nov 26, 2004)

Oh Mary that doesn't sound good - and I think Dona makes a very good point too in that reintroducing milk into the gut could cause acidosis. Also did you give him antibiotics (I think you said you did but can't find where I read it it's called going blind!) However, an AB targeting chest infections and pnuemonia will be a much better option.

Below is the link to a recent thread along similar lines in which reasons are given for the problems associated with bought-in calves. There is also a recipe for Electrolytes in there which you can make up yourself and are as good as anything you can buy.

http://www.homesteadingtoday.com/showthread.php?t=393942&highlight=electrolytes.

I hope I've done that right.

Cheers,
Ronnie


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## marytx (Dec 4, 2002)

Thanks, but I'm stumped on the first ingredient. How do you buy glucose? I assume you can't substitute sugar?
I wonder if powerade would work?
He does, this afternoon, have very loose stools, still breathing hard, but getting up and down. I gave him Biomycin first evening home, Pennicillin this morning.


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## thequeensblessing (Mar 30, 2003)

Loose stools is one symptom of rumen acidosis caused by lactic acid in a calf. I'd seriously consider taking him off the milk. Feed him electrolytes, scrambled eggs, bread, calf manna or other sweet feed, and all the quality hay he wants to eat. Keep water in front of him at all times too. He sure sounds like my little guy. The problem is that secondary infections can set in and kill a calf with this condition.


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## Ronney (Nov 26, 2004)

Mary, I'm sorry, I've been out all day. Glucose can be bought at your store or supermarket and is used by a lot of people as an energy restorer as it is the ownly sugar that can be absorbed directly into the bloodstream. In NZ it comes in a 400gm tub. I keep it permantly in the pantry for sick animals.

If his stools are changing, yes take him off milk immediately and give him electrolytes and fresh water if he wants it. Diito the rest of Dona's post.
I would recommend ringing your vet too for further advice and perhaps a stronger AB such as Engemycin.

Got to go, the day is running out but will check back later.

Cheers,
Ronnie


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## 6e (Sep 10, 2005)

thequeensblessing said:


> What do his bowel movements look like Mary? He may reject milk for a reason. He sounds a lot like a little angus calf we brought home from the market last year. He too was skinny, big bellied, wouldn't drink milk unless I forced him to. The more he drank, the sicker he got. The vet finally came out and diagnosed him with rumen acidosis and said to take him off all milk and only feed him grain and hay and that he'd eventually eat enough of both to pull out of it. Someone here suggested feeding him scrambled eggs with yogurt. I did both (he LOVED the eggs and would devour them!) I also fed him bread by hand. He did pull through when I stopped the milk. The vet said it's not that uncommon as one might think.


I was thinking the same thing Dona. If his rumen is already going well on hay and grass, introducing milk seemed like a bad idea. Usually if a calf is eating grass/hay well, they will do well with no interference. The ones that slide down hill in a hurry are the ones that won't take milk and won't eat hay or grain either. You can also upset a calf's rumen by forcing grain if they're not used to grain.

We used some stuff called Scour Stop and it has electrolytes in it and pro bios to get the rumen back in order. It works well on scouring calves. Good luck


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## marytx (Dec 4, 2002)

Thanks. I'm planning a run to TSC this morning, so I'll look for that name. I'll say I've learned something here. Honestly, I thought anything would do well on goat's milk, and certainly any ruminant. I actually bought him just to have something to put my milk into.


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## agmantoo (May 23, 2003)

If the calf dies it will be from your killing him with kindness. Upon arrival he was eating and drinking. Yes he is thin but can recover from that on his own with feed. The main thing was he did not have scours and looked stronger in the picture than you perceived.

Each time you tried to force feed you are stressing an undernourished animal that lacks energy. Stop the milk, reintroduce the water and quality hay while introducing sweet feed, handle him only when necessary and call your vet to get whatever he will let you have to treat a weakened calf. Something like nuflor.

That calf has a lot of potential!


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## marytx (Dec 4, 2002)

The calf was dead this morning, so we are done here. Thanks to all who offered encouragement and advice.
mary


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## thequeensblessing (Mar 30, 2003)

I'm sorry.


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## Buzzkill (Apr 20, 2011)

Wow, what a bummer.


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## 6e (Sep 10, 2005)

Sigh  Calves, once they get stressed go down quick and you have to act quick to save them. Sorry you lost him.


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## Tom in TN (Jun 12, 2007)

Mary,

I'm very sorry to hear of your loss. I've raised lots'o cows and calves over the years and it still breaks my heart to lose one.

Don't give up. You did everything possible to help the little one. Sometimes, stuff just happens.

Tom in TN


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## marytx (Dec 4, 2002)

Thanks.


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## Ronney (Nov 26, 2004)

Sorry to hear that Mary - and as Tom says, don't give up. 

Cheers,
Ronnie


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## marytx (Dec 4, 2002)

I sold the two extra goats that I had planned on using for milk for him the day he died. But, I still have lots of milk canned that needs used. I may or may not try again with another animal. At this point, a bottle kid seems a lot less risky.


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## 6e (Sep 10, 2005)

Bottle calves are harder. It helps to get one straight from a farm, not through a sale barn. You just never know what you're getting. The best bet is a dairy bull calf from the dairies if they've had colostrum. Don't give up.


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## marytx (Dec 4, 2002)

You know, I have a friend who brought a calf home straight from the dairy a few years ago, had had colostrum and everything, and it still died. I have to say I was concerned when the farmer told all the different things they did to try to keep them alive. It didn't sound positive.

Still, I've had good luck with dairy calves in the past, I just have also had the occasional bad luck. I have two very healthy two year olds out front right now that are ready for a freezer.


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## 6e (Sep 10, 2005)

Yeah, we've gotten bottle calves too that had been on the bottle quite awhile and they still died on us. I didn't try bottle calves for a long time after that. Then we got a few more and I thought we were going to lose them for awhile, but they pulled through. I always wondered why bottle baby lambs and goats are so easy and calves so difficult?


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## marytx (Dec 4, 2002)

I wonder that, too. When we had our field leased out to cattle, I was amazed at how the cows labored and delivered unattended, sometimes in bad weather, and those calves got up almost immediately and ran across the fields following their dams. Only times I can think of that there was a problem was once a cow had twins and left one, and once the black headed vultures got a calf. But dropped out there in the pasture they seemed to always be healthy.

As far as the Holsteins go, I don't think I've ever brought home a black and white calf that didn't die. The dark brown and white ones have thrived, making me think the crosses do much better than the purebred.


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