# LGD Questions?



## Beaniemom (May 25, 2007)

I need some help narrowing down my LGD breed choices before I start looking for breeders in my area (Upstate NY)

Currently I have ducks, chickens and rabbits. This last year was a really BAD year for predators for me, you name it, it probably came here and ate stuff. Fox, *****, possibly Coyotes and two months back two Great Pyrenees ripped thru my rabbitry killing 8 rabbits. I have just under 2 acres here, the chickens and ducks free range when they are not in their breeding pens. 

I just had another predator attack the other night, lost four ducks and a rabbit, and it was back again the next night (Sacha drove whatever it was off that night and last night too) and honestly I am sick and tired of replacing stock here! 

My current LGD is a rescue and she does her best, but she just will not kill predators, she will alert and drive them off but she just lacks oomph. I'm glad she was not outside when those dogs attacked or I might have had a dead dog instead of dead bunnies. Plus she is not large enough for home protection (You would be surprised at how many morons will get out of their car when she is outside!) I'd consider her more along the lines of an English Shepherd in LGD style (she is inside/outside) but I need a full time outside LGD. Someone even tried to steal our pump to the well in the front yard! She is also getting older, so I would like her to train her replacement this year.

Breeds I am considering are Anatolian Shepherds, Kangals, Tibetan or Spanish Mastiffs. I considered getting a English Shepherd, but I think they may lack the size/predator drive I need here? I'd like something that does not bark as their guarding behavior (thats how my current dog guards) I mean barking at something is fine, but she will bark at random things out there, sigh. I also just had a baby, so it will need to be a good family dog too. I've ruled out GP (I had before the dog attack and that just cemented my opinion, too many really bad breeders around here to take a chance!) A friend of mine has a Akbash for her goats, but she says it kills her ducks and chickens if they get out.

Does anyone run their LGD on invisable fencing? My friend said her dog was getting out of her 4 strand electric, I was considering putting in electric, but I would have to have a much smaller space fenced then due to cost and it would not have access to the front yard then. 

Anyway, I'd like to get a male pup this year and have Sacha train it, can anyone point me towards a breeder here on the east coast? I thought there was a Kangal breeder here in Albany NY but I cannot find their info... I'd like to visit a few breeders and see their dogs "live and in person", I'm traveling to Illinois, OH and Kansas this year for rabbit shows, so I could also purchase a pup in those areas too.


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## BarbadosSheep (Jun 27, 2011)

Most of the "harder" LGD breeds are not going to stay in an invisable fence. I have woven wire with hot wire on top and inside 15" or so up from the bottom. They learned as young pups to respect the fences. But I have known of determined LGDs to plow through a woven, electrified fence in persuit of coyotes too. They can be very determined animals. My dogs are Anatolian Shepherds. There are a lot of really good Anatolian breeders around that have working/show stock. Check the breed club to see if there are any good breeders close to you. http://www.asdca.org/


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## westbrook (May 10, 2002)

Invisible fencing does not work with these dogs. Doesn't work with most dogs actually. Works for a pocket pet part of the time.
The collar for the fencing is large and creates sores on the dogs neck. It requires the two prongs to touch the skin.
If the dog is chasing a predator it doesn't care about the little electric shock it gets... now it can't get back into the yard.

Use field fencing with hot wire at the bottom, middle and top. Best to use a 6 inch extension on the fence so the dog can't actually get near the fence.

4 rows of hot wire... 5 or 6 is better. 

Fencing is mandatory! I won't sell to anyone that doesn't have secure fencing and I am sure most breeders won't either. While these dogs can be bonded to their charges, they will wander. They need constant supervision or fencing, and think about 6 foot tall fencing.

Killing chickens and ducks... only if you don't work with them as a pup and on through to about a year old.

Which breed? how cold does it get? will the dog have a barn to sleep in with/near his charges? dogs get cold. I chose a short hair breed because of the heat in the summer reaching to 110. I have barns the dogs can go into if it snows.. they never do the big sillies! you may need a longer hair dog if it is really cold in the winter. 

take a look at http://lgd.org they will have links to breeders.


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## Batt (Sep 8, 2006)

I have to ask where the GP's that killed your bunnies came from. Has the owner reimbursed you? Why were they out roaming around. See the above comments about fencing. They need a job to do to keep them from roaming. I wouldn't want to pit one GP against another and certainly not 2. Someone us going to get killed.


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## citxmech (Dec 26, 2011)

I currently have a 7 month old Kangal/Boerboel cross. At this point, she is OK around our cats - she gets a bit obsessive at times trying to sniff or play with them and will chase them if they run, but she has never hurt any of them and won't molest the ones that have learned to stand their ground. 

At this stage, there's no doubt in my mind she would injure our chickens however. She's getting better with them, but it's still going to take time before we'd grant her access to them unleashed. She is not so interested that she has ever tried to dig under their fence or climb it. For now we just keep her outside of our fenced chicken run and are slowly working on getting her more bonded to the chickens by periodic supervised introduction training.

Her guarding instinct is wonderful, she only barks when she senses an actual threat and has shown no tendency to want to patrol outside our fenced yard (which I'm sure she could scale easily if she really wanted to). We have numerous cats, dogs, raccoons, and possums in our area and since "Daisy" came home, we have not seen any animals in the yard besides the neighbors cat, who she knows is welcome. This mix is working well for us as she loves to patrol from time to time, but never wants to be too far away - perfect for our smaller set-up. 

Based on my experience with this pup, as well as anecdotal accounts, if roaming is a concern, a pure Kangal/Anatolian could be a problem. Also, if you get a pup and don't have a bonded adult to teach them the ropes, you will likely have issues with your fowl for a substantial time (see the LGD/chicken thread), so be prepared for that. As you probably know, the Pyrs are barkers.

Good luck with your choice!


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## wintrrwolf (Sep 29, 2009)

I had an anatolian/GP cross, got her when she was a year old. Spent a week training her not to chase the chickens. Meaning she was kept confined (dog run) until I got home then I would let her out in the yard while I stood ready with the hose. Chase, spray until she stopped, had no real issues with her when it came to the goats and horses, I set up my rabbit cages on the other side of the fence where she could stare at them, sniff them but not hurt them after about a week they were old news.
BUT when I finally thought my fencing was goat proof...it was not dog proof and she did escape a few times-climbing the cattle panels or going under if she could, so I used the pet containment, ran the wire mid section on the panels and set it for about 3 feet out, it did work. Now at my new place I miss having Honeybear having lost allot of chickens to predators but my landlord ....so soon as we move into our own place I will start hunting for a similar cross again.


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## Rock (Jan 5, 2009)

Electric fence dont work (On most guard type) if the kill switch is engaged.
The most important thing in the whole equation is the new baby, so make that your start point in search. _(I just had some folks from up Albany way, down here to pick up their Bulldog pup last saturday)_
I have in the past, bird proofed dogs, with a chicken and a fence charger, something about that shock in the mouth, learns them in a hurry!
I would ask around about working dogs at your local feed mill and tractor store.


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## Goatress (Feb 4, 2011)

Based on what you have said here I would say no to both Kangals and Spanish Mastiffs, two breeds I own and raise, due to your lack of experience with what I consider a 'real' LGD. Both are independent. Both can be stubborn and a handful; Kangals can be quite intense, and they are not a beginner's type of breed. 

Honestly, you don't have enough work for a Kangal, or enough room from the sounds of it, for either a Kangal or Akbash, or Anatolian Shepherd. Even Spanish Mastiffs who can or may be more lethargic in some ways but they still need room and work. I know some people have them as 'pets' but if they don't get enough exercise, this can lead to weight issues....obesity...and boredom, then you have a 180-210 pound bored LGD on your hands...something few people are prepped to cope with.

Honestly, in your situation, I would almost recommend better fencing (not invisible), more vigilance on your part, than an LGD. Rabbits and fowl - although you CAN train LGD's to guard, are typically cooped up or put up in such a manner that they can be put up at night safely from predators. I would if I were you, consider those options before you dive into an LGD. You don't say how much land these animals are on, or the LGD would be on. A llama might even work for your situation.

I don't raise my LGDs to protect small critters, I run them on normal sized sheep and goats. I provide dogs 99% of the time, to people with those types of stock to be protected from predators. Are you prepared to take the time it will take (alot) to bond your pup to fowl and tiny critters like rabbits? Because it will take a lot more time than it does typically to bond dogs to sheep and goats. I have spoken with lots of 'old timers' who have had huge bands of sheep and / or cattle and goats. And I've asked them about the differences with size of stock and LGD' s and they have said as much to me, about the differences. Being gentle with little pups in my pack as my adult LGDs are, is not the same as when a chicken gets out (they chase it and kill it) or a small dog gets through the fence into my place (repeat of above). And these are dogs that lie peacefully all day with sheep and goats but something small enters the picture - outside of my LGD puppies, whom they all protect and consider 'theirs' - its a different story. And other LGD breeders have said as much to me about this as well.

Where I am going with this is, I'd seriously consider other options before I got an LGD for your situation, again, basing this on what you say here....just my two cents worth. Best of luck.....don't forget YOU being hands on must be part of the equation too....


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## pancho (Oct 23, 2006)

I agree with Goatress. You don't have enough land to need a LDG.
If you add up the cost of the dog, dog food, vet bills, etc. you could build a very good fence. Then after the initial investment you wouldn't have the worry of the dog or predators.


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## Wolf Flower (Dec 21, 2005)

I am in a similar situation. I have only one acre and small critters to protect, and I think most LGDs would be too intense for my needs. I have an Akbash dog right now and he is perfect for me, doesn't roam or bark his head off, is great with people and dogs when properly introduced, very mellow, but intimidating enough to ward off those with ill intent. But his temperament is rather unusual for an Akbash, so I've been told, and I don't know if I'll be able to find another like him. If you get an LGD you'd want one that isn't too intense, or needs a lot of area and animals to protect. 

It's possible that if you do find a guardian dog that fits your needs, he may help your female dog to be more protective against predators. Dogs tend to gain confidence when they have a buddy to back them up.


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