# trace minerals needed by bees?



## Thumper/inOkla. (May 10, 2002)

I have a top bar hive built, (yea! :goodjob: ) and I have been wondering about our soil's mineral depletion, my goats show the results fo the minerals lacking in our soil, as do the garden plants I grow (cotton was grown here years ago, and for many miles all around here)

I am thinking to keep a wet spot of soil bare and dusted with azomite and kelp powder, so the bee and local butterflies would have a place to pick up the minerals they may be needing but are depleted from the soils. Bee forage plants are rare around here except for a short wild flower blooming period in spring. and many wild flowering plants show depletion problems too.

I have been doing web searches for the info on what trace minerals bees need and what would be too much and so forth, but I am not finding much info about it. :shrug: 

I have seen wild bee's use dumped dish water (with natural soaps) as a lick and drown in large numbers in seaweed solutions I mix for the garden.
As a child I remember bee and butterflies useing puddles of cow pee as licks, but I don't have cows.


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## Oregonsparkie (Sep 3, 2003)

I think it would be much easier to add trace minerals when you feed the bees sugar syrup.


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## beeman97 (Jul 13, 2003)

Thumper,
I've been keeping bee's for many many yrs now & inall those yrs i have never run accros any readin on bee's needing trace minerals of any kind.
They get everything they need from the plants they browse & the water they collect.
I can't say i would bother with doing what you are proposing.
i would bother to make sure you have ample plant life that they can visit to insure they can make all the honey they need to survive.
Good Luck
Rick


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## Iddee (Sep 25, 2005)

My guess is all the places you saw them "licking", they were just gathering water. As Beeman said, they get all they need from flowers and trees. You will need to supply them with a watering area if there is not one close. They will travel up to 2 1/2 miles foraging for necter and pollen, so you don't need to worry about flowers being real close.
I, too, have been keeping and studying bees for 30+ years and have never heard of food supplements for bees.


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## Thumper/inOkla. (May 10, 2002)

beeman97 said:


> ...make sure you have ample plant life that they can visit to insure they can make all the honey they need to survive.
> Good Luck
> Rick


There is the rub, our soil is so depleted, bee forage plants don't grow well, grass hay and cattle are the most predominate "crops" around here for miles, goats are on the up and coming. None of those suport honey bee production.

And if my other plants (garden and pasture) and large animals show deficiency surely the other living things are experienceing problems too.

But too much of one thing can be toxic, so if I don't know what they need I risk too much of one thing and harm that way.

I will surely need to feed sugar to get them started, but what else will they need? If I lived an area that had more to offer them as food I wouldn't be concerned at all.

*******************************************************
I found this during some web searches, hope the link works ok. It is one of the very few places that suggest feeded minerals I have found so far.

http://rnoel.50megs.com/2000/part2.htm


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## Thumper/inOkla. (May 10, 2002)

> Iddee]My guess is all the places you saw them "licking", they were just gathering water.


Could be just a drink, I was taught when the butterflies and bees harbor at a crowed spot it is for minerals, (the nature documentary's and butterfly garden information, I have watched/read they get all the water they need from nectar, and soil drinking is for minerals) there is a pond not more than 200 ft away and they don't congregate there, there is a water tank not 30 ft away and they don't drink from the spills there. 



> As Beeman said, they get all they need from flowers and trees. You will need to supply them with a watering area if there is not one close. They will travel up to 2 1/2 miles foraging for necter and pollen, so you don't need to worry about flowers being real close.


The beesource site and other charts I have read show up to 8 miles maybe possible, (4 miles sticks in my mind as average) and I have traveled farther than that in each direction and viewed topigraphical maps, and airial photo's, for many miles in every direction, it is very much the same as our land. 

I


> , too, have been keeping and studying bees for 30+ years and have never heard of food supplements for bees


.

I have been learning about soil depletion as a gardener and when we moved here I saw the effects for the 1st time, (just for perpective, I am 40, come from a farming family back ground and my dad had honey bee's when I was little) I started to learn more as my goats showed problems, so I pay big money for a soil test (behond NPK) and was shocked at how bad it was. So,, following educated logic, and good scienctific method, if the other forms of life are showing harm from mineral deficiency, .......so would bee's?

So, now I am seeking more info, so I will be able to make the best choices.

********************************************************

What minerals would be toxic to bee's?


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## rainesridgefarm (Dec 1, 2002)

Many Many Many oldtimers use to salt the bees to provide them with added minerals. I do belive you are correct in you assuptions on mineral depletion. There has not been a study on bee health in relation to mineral content in diet but I also provide some kelp water for them and they take it verses the pool that everyone warned me not to put in because the bees will go for it verses a bird bath. I say give it to them it can only help.


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## Iddee (Sep 25, 2005)

The water they collect is not for their bodies, it is for evaporation air conditioning. The water for their bodies may well come from the nectar.
You are saying, I think, an area of 4 to 8 miles. I am saying a RADIUS of 2 1/2 mile. IE: A 5 mile area. Bees will travel the necessary distance to find nectar and pollen. I would think the limiting factor would be if they could make it back with the load while using less energy than the load would replace. They do not have an exact distance which they forage.
If I thought for a moment they were getting anything other than water from runny cow patties, I would never eat honey again.
I cannot comment on the availability of forage in your area. I would try to find other beeks around you and see if they have a successful harvest, and where it comes from.
The link you provided seems more for combating the Varroa mite than for the bee's health. The mite is such a horrible pest that people everywhere are trying all kinds of treatments to kill them.
All in all, I would try one hive, feed sugar water in the beginning, and see what happens. You may be right in that the area will not support them, but then again, the bees may find more sources than you ever imagined. They are quite resourceful little critters. 
"It is better to have tried and failed, than to never have tried at all"
GO FOR IT!!!!


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## John Schneider (Sep 9, 2005)

Not sure how practical it is for you, but could you not spend some time and effort to amend your soil conditions and plant forage for your bees? Mulching, softwood ash, rotten hay, etc. mixed into the soil and then seeded with clovers will go a long way with replenishing the nutrients and minerals. There is lots of information on the net for organic soil amendments etc. Just a thought.


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## Thumper/inOkla. (May 10, 2002)

John Schneider said:


> Not sure how practical it is for you, but could you not spend some time and effort to amend your soil conditions and plant forage for your bees? Mulching, softwood ash, rotten hay, etc. mixed into the soil and then seeded with clovers will go a long way with replenishing the nutrients and minerals. There is lots of information on the net for organic soil amendments etc. Just a thought.



We are doing so, it takes time and money. If I had the money to do it I could have this place in shape with in a year and a half. I have a few small areas that have fabulous soil building up in the garden beds. We have only been here 3 1/2 years, we have a well for water and sometimes run out of water if the generators go down, that slows plant growth alot too, and we spray copper to build up levels of it and some other minerals, (the soil test said we needed 12 lbs of copper per acre, I boggles my mind to understand how low our soil is to need so much) it all takes time.....( I learned organic gardening from my father, long before it was in style) 


The link I posted was the only place I had found so far about minerals fed to bees. So, along with rainsridge thoughts, I think it is reasonable the bees won't get too much of one mineral over another from a "balanced" mix. The only other artical that I found that may have had info was on a subscribe and pay site. So, I won't be reading it.

I do understand the area possible for the bees to forage, My point is even if they could forage 8 miles in every direction from my home, they would find much the same plant life as righ here at home, thus at the shorter ranges that are typical distances, there will not have access to what they need. So, I have to prepare forage and other needs as if home is the only place they will get it. To be sure of their health and production.


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## Thumper/inOkla. (May 10, 2002)

> =Iddee]You are saying, I think, an area of 4 to 8 miles. I am saying a RADIUS of 2 1/2 mile. IE: A 5 mile area.




Nope, I mean what the chart says.


http://www.beesource.com/pov/traynor/bcjun2002.htm

The longest distance in this artical is 13.5 km. which is more than 8 miles

http://72.14.207.104/search?q=cache...how+far+to+honey+bees+fly+from+the+hive&hl=en


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## LittleJohn (Jun 24, 2005)

I used to put a few drops of liquid min in my sugar syrup along with apple cider vinegar and some essential oils for the mites. They were very healthy!


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## Thumper/inOkla. (May 10, 2002)

I changed my subject of search to "what minerals are in honey?" and have found more helpful info.

http://www.nhb.org/foodtech/tgloss.html 

This was one of the better sites. We are extremely low on all of these minerals except iron and magnesium. 

It will take awhile to get there, but we are started, and the soil responds quickly to barn cleanings and the trace minerals we have added so far.
We'll get there. 

It is really nice to find out others have offered minerals to their bees.

Thanks,


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