# Wrong direction for the Pyr



## wendle (Feb 22, 2006)

I just came across this site, and hopefully this won't change how people see the Pyrs. 

http://listverse.com/2007/11/13/top-10-badass-guard-dogs/


Will this have an effect on home insurance if you use a Pyr for flock protection? 
Will people looking for aggressive home protection dogs start breeding Pyrs to be more aggressive making it harder to find good stable flock guardians?


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## wolffeathers (Dec 20, 2010)

I wouldn't worry about it too much. The author of the article only seems to have read online and simply reformatted information without actual first hand experience.

I have yet to meet a people aggressive Great Pyr. I have met some that will bark, growl, and charge a fenceline, but never met one that was aggressive after entering the enclosure. I was even "harrassing" one Great Pyr's sheep(they escaped and were beelining for the greenhouse. LOL So we were herding them back) and the most the dog did was bark and give me a firm warning bump in the tush.

I would NOT suggest a GP for anyone wanting a guard dog. The author seemed to simply go down and compare physical characteristics of breeds to write an article that didn't point out the pittbull as the all-mighty vicious guard dog.

It does go to show how breed bans are silly though. Ban breeds like the pittbulls and they'll simply find or breed a replacement to fill the niche.


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## longshadowfarms (Nov 27, 2002)

wolffeathers said:


> I have yet to meet a people aggressive Great Pyr.


Seriously? How many Pyrs have you met?

Frankly I find this article very disturbing, just for the way it looks at all the breeds listed.


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## Fowler (Jul 8, 2008)

My neighbor has a chihuahua that will rip your ankles up!!


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## wendle (Feb 22, 2006)

At a time when laws and restictions on dogs are running rampant it is becoming more important for the lgd to have a good reputation in the public eye as a people friendly way of predator control. Being lumped in with personal protection dogs will make them popular with the wrong people, besides affecting their reputation. I would not recommend these dogs as personal protection dogs that would be encouraged to show aggression towards people. What happens when the dog raised and bred to be people aggressive, but still carries the name of Pyrenese gets loose and attacks somebody ? A few too many cases like that then what? The sheep farmer looses a valuable partner who may be his only way to prevent heavy predator losses due to increased insurance or breed bans. I would not have sheep without my Pyr X .


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## wendle (Feb 22, 2006)

I know of two Pyrs who became people aggressive, in both cases they were put down. I doubt somebody wanting a dog for personal protection is going to do away with a dog for snapping at somebody.


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## RJMAcres (Sep 9, 2009)

I've seen some real bad pyrs. They are ones that were dumped out in the pasture
with the sheep or goats when they were about 8 weeks old and that was pretty much
the end of any human interaction. Bad stuff.

Mine will appear aggressive until they have been properly introduced to someone. 
Then they are friends for life.


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## wolffeathers (Dec 20, 2010)

longshadowfarms said:


> Seriously? How many Pyrs have you met?
> 
> Frankly I find this article very disturbing, just for the way it looks at all the breeds listed.


LOL Seriously! I have met maybe 25+ Pyrs, between visiting other people's farm and working in the vet office. 

The goat breeder down the street had 9(on her 2 acre property) and had thieves come onto her property in broad daylight steal her champion nigerian dwarfs. The Pyrs would bark and charge the fence, but didn't deter or intervene someone from jumping the fence and then carrying a few goats back over the fence on the way out.

The most aggressive I've met was the one that "bumped" me when I was herding his sheep. "Snowflake" wasn't terribly socialized(not that he was suppose to be) and kind of wandered past us(had free range of the 55acre farm) and checked us out. Didn't take up issue with me until I was herding his sheep, this was the first time I had visited the farm, so I was a stranger.

Almost all the ones I met at the vet office were pure jello. Not sure how many of them were pets or LGDs, I imagine pets. They would come in for a grooming, shave, shots, or boarding and would have meltdowns, not wanting to walk down the hallway or taking 3 sturdy employees to get them in the tub. We had one that would scream anytime he thought you were going to do something to hurt him(nail clipping, shots, etc).

I love GPs and have a GP cross myself, but even Goose will charge the fence barking and growling like a POed grizzly, until you slip inside the gate and then you get clobbered by a giant furball flopping over at your feet for love and attention. If you're on the other side of the fence, you'd swear he'd eat you; but once inside the fence, you're his new best friend forever. I encourage the assertive displays at the fenceline, but a people aggressive dog, I do not have. 

Doesn't mean they aren't out there! I'm sure you can find breeders that breed them to be people aggressive, as a breeder you can breed for just about anything whether it is typical of the breed or not. But all the GPs I have met, I wouldn't call people aggressive. Intimidating, yes; but not aggressive. (Now against dogs and other animals, that's a whole different story  )

I wouldn't go shopping for a GP, if I wanted personal protection. I would select for a breed that has been bred to do that job. 

But I do agree about the article. I'm all for a dog that does it's job, but won't be selecting one for "pain tolerance" and "bad *** points". That's the mentality that has the pittbull where it is today and how breed fear mongering and stereotyping is born. It's also how hundreds of large, powerful dogs that should only be own by experienced dog owners come to fall in the hands of teenagers wanting "cool points" by walking their unsocialized brute of an animal down the street on a spiked collar or heavy chain. I'll never forget the renter that moved in next door to my childhood home, coming over to introduce himself for the first time and wanted to go 50/50 on a new fence because his "pittbulls" were "warriors" and would no doubt tear down the existing privacy fence and break into our backyard to get at the our dogs. His pitts later escaped his backyard, ran off and were struck by vehicles. They were emaciated things, covered in mange and the females teats dragged the ground. But they were "warriors" that guarded his junk cars. It was a shame.


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## Pops2 (Jan 27, 2003)

wendle said:


> I just came across this site, and hopefully this won't change how people see the Pyrs.
> 
> http://listverse.com/2007/11/13/top-10-badass-guard-dogs/
> 
> ...


a little uncomfortable when it's a breed to you appreciate & respect getting bad press. i hope it stops here and doesn't devolve to brindle & black GPs killing people.


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## Goatress (Feb 4, 2011)

My first question is what are the author's credentials (of the article).
Anyone can cobble together a list like that. That list does not hold much water with me.
Any breed can become aggressive if brought up the wrong way - example the 8 week old pups dumped out in sheep then no human interaction. The list was made in 2007, don't see it doing much harm to the Pyr....consider the source.... I have heard more comments about Anatolians being aggressive than Pyrs.... And they too are not all aggressive or bad. "One bad apple...." you know how they say. I think raising dogs responsibly is key to preventing bad raps happening for our own respective favorite breeds.


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## hiddensprings (Aug 6, 2009)

The article lacks credibility. It looks to me like someone just went through and selected several large breeds and decided they were for protection. Just do a google search and list just about any breed of dog and you will find bad press.
It really does all come down to how you raise and socialize them.


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## mekasmom (Jan 19, 2010)

wolffeathers said:


> I have yet to meet a people aggressive Great Pyr. I have met some that will bark, growl, and charge a fenceline, but never met one that was aggressive after entering the enclosure.


I agree. I have never seen a people aggressive GP.


There was a case recently where a pair of pyrs actually pulled a rider off a bike and severely injured her. But I do believe it was because they had never been exposed to bikes because everyone else said they had never acted aggressively towards people. 
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/07/07/sheep-dog-attacks-on-moun_n_637627.html

http://www.hcn.org/articles/recreation-on-the-range/print_view


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## wendle (Feb 22, 2006)

Pops2 said:


> a little uncomfortable when it's a breed to you appreciate & respect getting bad press. i hope it stops here and doesn't devolve to brindle & black GPs killing people.


I have never seen a brindle GP, have you? I would hope those who breed for pit fighting won't take a fancy to them and ruin the breed . It would be a shame to see such a useful dog get a bad rap.


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## wendle (Feb 22, 2006)

Maybe these are the brindle and black GP's ? If they are I'd say they didn't work too well as lgd's. 
http://your4state.com/fulltext/?nxd_id=192227&shr=addthis


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## wendle (Feb 22, 2006)

double


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## wendle (Feb 22, 2006)

mekasmom said:


> I agree. I have never seen a people aggressive GP.
> 
> 
> There was a case recently where a pair of pyrs actually pulled a rider off a bike and severely injured her. But I do believe it was because they had never been exposed to bikes because everyone else said they had never acted aggressively towards people.
> ...


I remember that, the lady basically attacked the sheep as far as the dogs were concerned by busting into the middle of them with her bike. As we have an increase in population more farmers have to deal with city people who do not know how to behave around animals. They do not understand that the dogs are necessary for their livestock survival.


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## Pops2 (Jan 27, 2003)

wendle said:


> I have never seen a brindle GP, have you? I would hope those who breed for pit fighting won't take a fancy to them and ruin the breed . It would be a shame to see such a useful dog get a bad rap.


always a shame to see a useful dog get a bad rap.
as for brindle GPs, well, i never even heard of an 80# pit bulldog. since "pitt bulls" became so popular though apparantly there whole lines that big and even 110#. if old fashioned dogmen ever took a fancy to GPs they would become the healthiest & smartest large breed ever. if the billybobs & leroys get hold of it you'll see blacs, blues, brindles, merles & 200# fear biters.


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## Ross (May 9, 2002)

The article is a superficial waste of bandwidth IMO. This kind of broad brush gereralizations is one of those things that can cause issues of course, but what I found isn't so much the breed you choose as the job you have it do when it comes to covering liability. Having a pet is just that, having a guard dog is another. Too many people look at insurance as an evil waste of money and don't really buy the coverage they need. Then when it comes up short they prove themselves right, the evil insurance co won't cover them. The thing to do is to look at insurance as a product you need and buy the best you can afford. If you hold out telling your agent what you need, don't be surprised when it isn't there for you.


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## PMcNemar (Jun 5, 2011)

Many of the dogs on that list do make good guard dogs, but to be perfectly honest, the author doesn't seem to know squat. My great aunt breeds Pyrs, they can be pretty intimidating, but those dogs are giant fluffballs of love once you're introduced to them and they realize you're a source of treats and ear rubs.

I had to laugh at the Swiss Mountain Dog entry on the list as well. I'd be willing to bet that the author has never met dogs of most of those breeds. Yes, some of them make good personal guard dogs, but they just copy and pasted generic descriptions without doing any further research into the breeds.

The Pyr will be just fine.


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## Pops2 (Jan 27, 2003)

PMcNemar said:


> Many of the dogs on that list do make good guard dogs, but to be perfectly honest, the author doesn't seem to know squat. My great aunt breeds Pyrs, they can be pretty intimidating, but those dogs are giant fluffballs of love once you're introduced to them and they realize you're a source of treats and ear rubs.
> 
> I had to laugh at the Swiss Mountain Dog entry on the list as well. I'd be willing to bet that the author has never met dogs of most of those breeds. Yes, some of them make good personal guard dogs, but they just copy and pasted generic descriptions without doing any further research into the breeds.
> 
> The Pyr will be just fine.


not only that but he had a different breed picture under the boerboel heading.


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