# Ringwomb



## meggie (Apr 19, 2004)

Has anyone else had a problem with ringwomb ? I have raised goats for 20 years now and have never had a seen a case of it till yesterday. 
Gypsy was a first timer , just over a year old. Went into labor in the morning everything seemed perfectly normal. By the afternoon she was getting serious with the contractions but there was not enough goo. I went in to check presentation and found a non dilated cervix. Within ten minuets she passed away. Vet said he could have done a C-section if he had of gotten to us in time. Some times Pitocin can be used but that works better in sheep. You can also manually dilate the cervix but they usually die before you can get the cervix open enough to deliver. 
I hope never to ever see this again.


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## Doug Hodges (Jul 22, 2013)

Dang. Sorry


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## baileysclublamb (Nov 17, 2013)

it happens sometimes in sheep. Last year we had a ewe with it. Oxytocin and dexamethasone helps, you have to work open their cervix with your hand. Usually ringwomb is a slow death,But, With sheep, sometimes first time moms have a twisted uterus and there is no way for the baby to be born, because the uterus is not laying just right, and has a small twist in it. A few years ago I had one like that, and she died within an hour of going into labor. She ruptured internally.Im sorry for your loss. The vet told me if I ever lose a momma when they are in labor, after they die you can cut them open and try to save the babies. You have to do it quickly though. I have never tried it, but I would if I thought I could save the babies.


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## anita_fc (May 24, 2008)

Somewhere - on this forum, I think - someone posted instructions (with photos?) of how to quickly do the incision needed to save babies. I am a complete klutz at using search (got over 400 hits), but maybe whoever posted that could point us to that post again. I wish I'd known how to "subscribe" to threads back then.

I have heard of ringwomb occurring in Pygmy goats, and you do have to work quickly to dilate that cervix. The friend who told me about it did not lose her goat; but, of course, she did cull her from the breeding program. Scary! I hope never to encounter it. I am still getting used to the odd presentations that can happen with pygmies that have plenty of room. I'll probably pass out if I ever can't get in to help! My sympathies to you for your loss.


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## baileysclublamb (Nov 17, 2013)

ringwomb is a one time thing. It wont happen again. I keep the ewes that did it.


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## Frosted Mini's (Nov 29, 2012)

I had one this spring, it was AWFUL! My doe was also a yearling. I read in the book Goat Medicine (that book is worth its weight in gold and pretty much costs that too, anybody that wants more info on it, let me know, it's an excellent text)...anyway, it is more common a problem in first freshening does. Mine had squishy ligaments in the late morning, but it was Easter, and we were having dinner with my husband's grandmother, so I had her in a pen where I could check on her often on camera. At around 6 pm, she was looking really serious, so I came home. Nothing happened by about 10 pm, so I went in and noticed her cervix was only dilated 1 finger, though a bubble with kid was just on the other side. At this point, I probably should have acted a little more quickly. I think I gave her a CMPK shot and lute at that time, but I might have done it in the morning...memory is foggy. I let her be, because I figured being a ff she was just taking her time. I checked her several times through the night. In the morning I went in again, and she still was not dilated any more! I then was very worried, got some herbs from the vet and started working on manually dilating her cervix...she was quite exhausted by this point. My friend instructed me to put lute on a gloved hand to apply it to the cervix while I worked on her (don't know that it made it that far really with going in). I was ever so careful and finally got her open enough to feel around. I think the reason she didn't dilate properly was there was a very small kid inside that had died early in gestation, and was up against cervix at the same time as the normal kid. I assume this caused her not to have the right pressure in the right spot (guessing similar problem to having a twist in the uterus as described above). I pulled that little kid out, followed by 2 normal full term kids that were both at this point dead.  It was 10:30 pm at this point. I did save the doe though! I kept up the CMPK for several doses, gave her a uterine flush, and a round of injectable antibiotics.

According to Goat Medicine, you do not want to give oxytocin and you have to be gentle when manually dilating them, as you can rupture the cervix/uterus. Treatment options include prostaglandins (lutalyse), calcium, estrogen, and manual dilation. You can also have a c-section done, but this particular doe was not valuable enough for me to do so, unfortunately. At least I saved her! I had considered putting her down to do a c-section and remove the kids, but I assumed at that point the kids were dead, which turned out to be a correct assumption.

I am surprised the doe in this thread died so quickly. I wonder if her uterus ruptured from the contractions against a closed cervix (which is why the oxytocin is not recommended as treatment for ringwomb).


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## baileysclublamb (Nov 17, 2013)

thats interesting about the oxytosin. With sheep, the contractions are supposed to help shove the baby through the cervix ultimately dilating them. We have done it in the past. I guess the difference is that goats are not as tough as sheep( no offence, but I have found that goats arnt as tough. Guess it depends on the goat, but with my goats, they are most definitely more sensitive than my sheep.) My guess is that the goat ruptured and thats why she died so fast. Anyway twisted uteruses are uncommon, but with sheep, they are horrible. There is NO way to get the baby out, besides c section.


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## anita_fc (May 24, 2008)

Wow. Thanks for sharing that info Nancy!


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## Frosted Mini's (Nov 29, 2012)

http://wvuscholar.wvu.edu:8881//exl...zL2R0bC9kM18xL2FwYWNoZV9tZWRpYS8xMDE4NA==.pdf

Still reading, but just found this interesting article.

Oh, I just remembered, in the doe above, one reason I suspected the kids were dead is that I started seeing a bloody discharge. I assume that their umbilical cords became detached from the contractions or something. They likely drowned in their amniotic fluid. In the afternoon before I got the kids out, the doe had also been pushing/straining against her closed cervix; perhaps that contributed to them detaching as well.


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## Frosted Mini's (Nov 29, 2012)

Ohhh, I also treated the doe with small doses of oxytocin every few hours, AFTER I got her open and kids out, to make sure she cleaned out well. She was also slow to pass her placenta, but it did pass whole eventually.


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## meggie (Apr 19, 2004)

Thank you all so much for the wonderful info and sympathy. I have been doing a lot of research and the genetic link is strong. It passes through the maternal line. I am going to end this line. I just think it needs to be a fault we try to breed out. Just a thought. 
Again , thanks guys.. it helps sometimes to have other goaty folks to talk to..


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## Caprice Acres (Mar 6, 2005)

I had typed out a response yesterday but apparently I never sent it. 

I had a doe have ringwomb this past year too. First time to see that here. First time boer doe, 4 years old. She was uncomfortable for days, but now thinking back this was perhaps my only sign that she was in labor that long and just wasn't dilated. Goats that don't dilate or that have kids stuck will usually stall contractions as a safety mech - for a while at least. If they can't move the kids, no use pushing and rupturing your uterus. That's why oxytocin should not be given.

She wasn't in distress and was still within the realm of reason for kidding - no goo, not even when I finally noticed her pushing. Finally she moved feet through, but no nose... went in to feel and his nose was squished through the cervix which was not dilated enough. I started manually dilating her as best I could (I didn't have enough room to push the kid back to do a better job. After a while, I started pulling. There's no money in the budget for C-sections, and the doe wasn't tuckered out so I figured that as her best chance. It was not fun for the doe or me pulling, as it took a TON of work for me to pull that kid. I was pulling an approx 220lb doe across the barn with each pull.  Eventually I got a 11lb buckling through(which is not too abnormally huge - her dam had an 11lb buckling and a 10lb doeling the next day...). The doe wasn't really all that tired but BOY was she sore. I penned her alone for a week or so with food/water, giving her Meloxicam for a few days for pain and supplementing an energy drench/calcium source as well. She ate and drank and still raised her buckling just fine. She's back in with the buck now. Her son was the biggest kid that year, easily 50lbs by 9 weeks. ginormous.

I did not use lute to help stimulate. For one, my vet wouldn't sell me lute at that time so I didn't have any, and for two, I am taking birth control so that I don't reproduce - I wouldn't want to chance getting lute all over my arm and having it interact with my BC.  

I've learned it has something to do with hormones not working properly. Wether it is not enough hormones released or the receptors on the target tissues are not available/produced/downregulated, it's hard to say and may be a case-by-case issue. There's a lot of hormones moving for the first time in a first time pregnant doe nearing parturition. I was reading a paper on sheep that said about 48hrs later the lambs have died and the ewe will finally dilate and expel the dead lambs.


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## baileysclublamb (Nov 17, 2013)

meggie said:


> Thank you all so much for the wonderful info and sympathy. I have been doing a lot of research and the genetic link is strong. It passes through the maternal line. I am going to end this line. I just think it needs to be a fault we try to breed out. Just a thought.
> Again , thanks guys.. it helps sometimes to have other goaty folks to talk to..


I disagree. I have never had this happen with my goats, but it happens a couple times a year with our sheep. It is a lack of hormone to make them dialate. not genetic. I keep the ewes and NEVER have had them do it again, or have their daughters do it.


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## Caprice Acres (Mar 6, 2005)

I sold the buck out of my ringwomb doe as a sire... At the time I looked it up and found nothing but opinion on ringwomb and nothing conclusive about it being genetic... now I'm wondering if I shouldn't try to find more ACTUAL research studies on it (if any) and possibly cull her. I have the Sheep PRoduction Handbook (great resource for us goat breeders too, btw) that I had to purchase for my sheep management class, I think I'll look in there and see if it has any good info on ringwomb. It's a very no-nonsense, practical book. Makes me wish the goat industry had a similar publication that was so practical and sensible, lol.


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## meggie (Apr 19, 2004)

It does seem to be different in sheep and goats . Could be sheep are tougher then goats , they seem to be to me. But from what I have read so far and a lot of it seems to be conjecture ,:hair this is caused in goats by a recessive gene . Thank goodness it only happens in about 1 in 1000 births.


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## KrisD (May 26, 2011)

My doe Macy had a similar experience last April. Her due date came and went with no signs anything was happening. She finally started to get serious and after contracting hard for 30 minutes I went in to see what was up (I never let a do go for more then 30 minutes). She was not even remotely dilated! I waited another 15 minutes, no dilation at all. I knew we were going to have dead goats if I didn't get those kids out so I manually dilated her. 
It seemed like it took forever but in reality it only took a few minutes. I start out by putting one finger (nails clipped short!) on her cervix putting some pressure and twisting my finger In a circle. It will start to open after a few minutes. Then use 2 fingers then 3 etc until your whole hand fits though. 

I finally got through reached in and felt only one leg. Followed that leg until I found the other leg and nose to the same kid and pulled hard alternating front legs I was pulling. Pulled 2 7lb kids out of my Nigie doe. Everyone lived and was fine although mom was really sore for a good week. 

My advise to everyone, if in doubt GO IN! Do not wait. You will have much better chances going in and getting the kids out rather then waiting to see what happens.


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## blaundee (Nov 3, 2012)

How old were these first timers that had ringwomb?


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## yarrow (Apr 27, 2004)

had a 3rd ff doe this past week that we induced.. she just sort of stalled out labor wise about 3 hours before I expected her to kid.. (she was carrying her kids way low in her belly when they dropped).. thought maybe it was just taking a while to get them up into position.. around 8pm.. I went in to check.. totally closed cervix.. so closed I couldn't really even find it!!!.. gave more lute.. waited until midnight.. checked again.. (doe was not stressed at all.. just sort of hanging out..had her under constant watch via cameras).. midnight check, I at least could find the cervix.. still closed.. 2am. I could get the tip of a finger in.. (couldn't feel a kid on the other side tho)..watched her the rest of the night.. she began lightly pushing around 5am.. never hard pushes until almost 6am.. once I could tell she was serious.. we headed out there (very worried about her by now)... She pushed out part of a bubble as I entered the pen.. however instead of toe tips in the bubble.. I saw an ear!!!.. -nubian doe, so it was a LONGGG ear floating in there).. popped the bubble lubed up and went in.. figured out the problem pretty quickly.. Mr. Ear was coming thur the pelvis with his head turned sideways.. he had 3 front legs !!! (okay two were his.. one belonged to the guy behind him... he also had two back legs.. that were different sizes .. again, one belonged to yet another brother).. took me a few minutes.. but got all 3 sorted out and safely delivered.. all are fine, as is mom.. none showed any stress really (no Meconium floating in the bubbles ect.. none smeared on the kids).. much better outcome then last spring when my older doe Sunny ruptured out while kidding.. blood was simply pouring.. (had a kid with front legs out.. head flipped back over a shoulder.. it's body fell down into the rupture and I couldn't get it turned.. just too much blood and clots.. made the decision that my doe was already dying.. so we shot her, did an emergency c-section.. using a razor blade .. right there in the kidding stall.. saved the big single doeling she was carrying.. Doeling did fine.. actually better then fine.. at not quite 11 months.. she is bigger then some of my almost 2 year olds.. left the spring keeper buckling in with that group too long.. She delivered a BIG (almost 10lb) spotted buckling on superbowl sunday.. easy quick, unassisted birth.. she is milking well.. (already runs to the milkroom and jumps up on the stand by herself).. so glad to have her as part of the herd.. (nice living legacy of her dam, who was much loved)

susie, mo ozarks


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