# Question about Weaving Yarns



## MullersLaneFarm (Jul 23, 2004)

What do the number signify when ordering weaving yarns? How is a 6/2 different than a 20/2??

I have an 8-dent reed, what size weaving yarn should I be ordering for a nice twill horse saddle pad/horse blanket??


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## FMO3 (Nov 22, 2009)

Ok.... Something that I know. It depends if its wool or cotton, as they are wrote different. But with wool say you have a 2/8 wool. The 2 is the number of plies, while the 8 is how many hanks per pound. A hank is 560 yards in wool, so 8 times 560 equals 4480. You would have a 2 ply that is 4480 yards per pound, about lace weight. Cotton is the same with the ply but, a standard cotton hank is 840 yards per pound.

Depending on how thick you want the blanket I would not go below a 2/4. Then weave with multiple strands. A skein of say worsted weight knitting yarn is about a 2/2. If it is a two ply yarn.

I knit mostly with so called weaving yarns, theynare cheaper on a cone, also more colors choices I have found. A good rough rule, 2/2 is worsted, 2/4 is sport weight 2/6 is fingering weight. Just remember that the last number(most time the biggest) is hank number....times it by 540 and you will get the yards per pound.


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## SvenskaFlicka (Nov 2, 2011)

Oh, this is confusing, and I sell weaving yarn all the time.

The first number has something to do with how many yards are in a single ply of that yarn in a pound, MULTIPLIED by the first number. Say for example, I have some size 6 wool singles. (I'm using the 6/2 Tuna Swedish Wool for my example because I have it right here and have a label.) Size 6 wool is spun so there is 3,017 yards per pound. Size 1 wool would thus have about 502 yards per pound, size 2 would have 1,004, etc. This is not 100% exact, but gives you an idea. (Actually my size 20/2 wool yarn has 4,731 yards per pound, which is 9,000-some yards per pound of single ply-- yardage is thus less than what the calculations would suggest.)

The second number is the number of plies the yarn has. A 6/2 wool has two plies. This will cut down on the yardage. A size six yarn with 3,017 yards per pound has 1,508 yards per pound, only half as in a 6/1. But, it is thicker.

And this varies by fiber. Yardage depends on the weight of the fiber in question. A number one cotton apparently has 840 yards per pound.

Now, as for the size of the yarn... I'd say a 6/2 wool is about a worsted weight, good for blankets and other heavier items, while a 20/2 is very fine, comparable to a fine laceweight yarn. Thickness of the cloth will also vary based on how many ends per inch you weave at, dents in your reed, whether you full the cloth after, etc. I use 6/2 yarn with a 10-dent heddle in my rigid heddle loom, and it makes a nice scarf. Customers have used the 12 dent and gotten very stiff, bulky scarves. 

Frazzle will probably have good input on weaving a horse blanket.


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## SvenskaFlicka (Nov 2, 2011)

FMO3 said:


> I knit mostly with so called weaving yarns, theynare cheaper on a cone, also more colors choices I have found. A good rough rule, 2/2 is worsted, 2/4 is sport weight 2/6 is fingering weight. Just remember that the last number(most time the biggest) is hank number....times it by 540 and you will get the yards per pound.


Hmmm... the 6/2 yarn I have is really a lot thicker than worsted weight. :teehee: Difference in brand?

Another thing-- some European yarns and patterns put the larger number second, while standard American parlance is to put the larger number first.


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## Rosepath (Feb 18, 2011)

If weaving a saddle blanket, I use 8/4 cotton rug warp or if $$ are no object, linen of that weight, both would be sett no closer than 6 epi, (ends per inch in the reed), often I've used 4 epi. The weft is rug-weight wool that I dye myself, it comes on cones from R&M Yarns in Tennessee (www.rmyarns) and is very reasonable in the natural for dyeing. (check the website, that's my dyed-yarns-on-fence pic by the rug yarn section - you can see how beautifully it dyes).
The warp the loom for a twill so the weft will pack down well, and after each pass of the shuttle, beat the tar out of it with your beater to insure a very dense, long-wearing fabric.
Finish by tying warp ends in small knots, or use the Damascus edge, or even weave a header and footer (one at beginning of rug, other at end) of 2" of tabby with the warp weight yarn, and hem the ends.
Have fun, saddle blankets are lovely in a twill, reverse twill, or diamond twill. Lots of possibilities!


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## MullersLaneFarm (Jul 23, 2004)

Thanks for the explanation, Kelsey & FMO3. It's making some sense to me.

Rosepath, so for an 8 dent reed, use 8/4 cotton at 6 epi for the warp. For the weft, the New Zealand rug wool looks great, but which size?? 2/80 for a more balanced fabric or something bulkier?


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## frazzlehead (Aug 23, 2005)

I used wool for both warp and weft because I wanted it to full nicely in both directions.

I got my yarn from our local mill - Custom Woolen Mills - I already knew what their 2 ply mule spinner yarn was like (a nice, worsted weight wool) and figured it'd be perfect. It is. 

I've done cotton warp and wool weft, but I really like the effect of wool and wool. Especially for a horse blanket ... 100% wool is ideal, IMHO. 

For reference, I use a sett of 8 epi and I get about 6 ppi in twill, then full it down - shrinkage is 13% in length (from length on the loom) and 23% in width (from width in the reed to washed, so that includes draw in). So definitely weave it wider and longer than you think you'll need.


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## Rosepath (Feb 18, 2011)

Usually I order these for dyeing and rug weft: New Zealand 2/54 or 3/42. Bulkier is nice but you won't get as much yardage per pound, with price being the same it's better to have more yardage. Frazzlehead is right, be sure to allow more width and length in your woven fabric to allow for take-up on the loom during weaving and then for shrinkage and fulling after. These blankets need to be fulled a lot, look up waulking in Scotland for an interesting way to do that (we had a wool-waulking party at my house once, too much fun indeed
510-2552/542-Ply; approx. 880 ypp; approx. 15-16 wpi#510-3423/423-Ply; approx. 672 ypp; approx. 14 wpi​


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## MullersLaneFarm (Jul 23, 2004)

See, when you're talking wpi, I understand that language!!! It's the 2/54 and 3/42 that gets me all confoozled!!

I really want both wool warp & weft. I'm thinking the 2/54 (i.e. 15-16 wpi) will work wonderful for the saddle blanket!!

Thanks so much you two!!

eta:

See http://www.homesteadingtoday.com/co...0-weaving-4-harness-im-doing.html#post6485325 for tonight's success


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## Falls-Acre (May 13, 2009)

I was really confused too, so I researched this. 

The bottom number is the number of plies of the yarn. The top number helps in indicating the yardage you can expect to have in a pound of yarn and is an indicator of the thickness (weight) of the yarn. Rather than go into the actual equation you'd use to calculate it out, a general guideline to keep in mind is the higher that number, the finer the yarn. 

So an 8/2 yarn is close to being worsted weight. I did have all of this laid out in a spreadsheet, but now can't seem to find where I saved that document!


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## featherbottoms (May 28, 2005)

According to Deborah Chandler in Learning To Weave revised edition ( pages 206, 207) - and I am paraphrasing here and putting it in the terms/language that I use to figure it out

Using a 6/2 and a 20/2 yarn size as examples

the second number - the 2 - is the ply.

The first number - the 6 or 20 - is the thickness of the yarn.

So, a 6/2 is a thick 2 ply

the 20/2 is a thin 2 ply

the higher the first number the thinner the yarn

the larger the 2nd number, the more plies

So that's why a 6/2 is thicker than a 20/2. The 6/2 would have less yarn than a 20/2 IF they both were the same physical weight by ounce or pound.

Does that make sense?


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## featherbottoms (May 28, 2005)

MullersLaneFarm said:


> See, when you're talking wpi, I understand that language!!! It's the 2/54 and 3/42 that gets me all confoozled!!
> 
> I really want both wool warp & weft. I'm thinking the 2/54 (i.e. 15-16 wpi) will work wonderful for the saddle blanket!!
> 
> ...


So you want to use a thick yarn that's 42 or 54 ply? I don't think you will get 15-16 wpi out of that, at least not the 2 - but I'm even more new to this than you are so don't put a lot of stock in what I say.

edited to add - I think a 2/54 would be about as thick as an adult pinky finger. Imagine if you wrapped something that thick around a ruler for 1" and see how many times it's go around. Maybe 6 or 7?


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## SvenskaFlicka (Nov 2, 2011)

Some places put the plies first and the size second, so a New Zealand 2/54 would be an American 54/2. I would think that would be rather small. :shrug:


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## MullersLaneFarm (Jul 23, 2004)

It sounded small to me also ... but it also says 15-16 wpi (assuming wraps per inch like in spinning ... would be warps per inch though .... hmmm

maybe the 42/3 would be better then or something even thicker


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## Falls-Acre (May 13, 2009)

As I understand, America puts the ply number first. I've only ever seen it as the second number though. Honestly, I don't think many places, if any, would ever create a yarn with that many plies! So generally, I simply assume the lower number in the pair is the number of plies and the higher number indicates yarn thickness. So a 54/2 and a 2/54 would be the same yarn, a 2-play lace weight yarn.


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## frazzlehead (Aug 23, 2005)

The blanket I just finished weaving used lopi for the weft it went nice and fast! It's part balanced weave, part twill (since it was a test) ... the balanced weave makes a firmer hand for the fabric and would probably be better for a horse blanket than the twill. It fulled nicely - shrunk a LOT in the width but not as much in the length as I expected (hardly any in length, actually, but about 30% from width-in-the-reed to finished-fulled-width). 

I did switch to using a rag shuttle for the weaving (from my usual boat shuttle) as winding those bobbins with lopi was just daft. 

For reference, the warp I used was 988 ypp (about 9 wpi) and the lopi weft is 650 ypp (about 7 wpi). The coats are woven with both warp and weft in the 9 wpi (Custom Woolen Mills Mule Spinner 2 ply, it's listed on Rav.)


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## SvenskaFlicka (Nov 2, 2011)

Sooooo...

I checked my Swedish Weaving books. Ply first, size second. 

Checked my Swedish yarns. Size first, ply second.

I am soooooo confused. :huh:


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## Ana Bluebird (Dec 8, 2002)

See what I mean about math. I have a headache now. So glad some of you "get it".


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## MullersLaneFarm (Jul 23, 2004)

frazzlehead said:


> I got my yarn from our local mill - Custom Woolen Mills - I already knew what their 2 ply mule spinner yarn was like (a nice, worsted weight wool) and figured it'd be perfect. It is.


Anyone know where I can get something like this in the U.S.?


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## frazzlehead (Aug 23, 2005)

CWM will ship it to you, they don't discriminate. It's a bit of a hassle ordering from them as you have to phone, but they are nice to deal with. 

Actually Flannelberry Creek will be carrying their yarns shortly ... if you want me to look into pricing etc for you, I can do that.  PM me


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## FMO3 (Nov 22, 2009)

Bartlett yarns out of Maine have mule spun yarn from 100% American wool.


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## featherbottoms (May 28, 2005)

This thread is one of the reasons I like the internet (I have a love-hate relationship with it most of the time).

Now when/if I ever order yarn that is advertised as 2/54, or some other funky number, I'll have a good idea what it really means. But it sure seems confusing for something that's been around for so long and should be simple to understand by now.


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## MullersLaneFarm (Jul 23, 2004)

frazzlehead said:


> Actually Flannelberry Creek will be carrying their yarns shortly ... if you want me to look into pricing etc for you, I can do that.  PM me


Sweet! Let me get my numbers and I'll shoot you a PM. Thanks, Lonna!


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## frazzlehead (Aug 23, 2005)

I added the Custom Woolen Mills yarns to the shop - just search for "Canadian" and you'll find them all.


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