# automatic waterer freezing



## Gripshover (Apr 29, 2012)

I have a 2 hole automatic waterer that has been freezing with the cold temps we've been having here in NKY. I think its either the float or where the water comes out the water in the tub doesnt frezze it just doesnt fill back up. Any suggestions on how to prevent this?



Leo


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## Jennifer L. (May 10, 2002)

Unfreeze it twice a day with hot water and wait for warmer weather. 

It's possible that if it's just the float freezing down you might be able to adjust it so the arm on the float keeps the float itself away from the waterer wall. A float will freeze when it can touch the wall of the waterer because that's coldest when the water level drops. Also, you can set the float and the arm so that as much of the float as possible is under water when the waterer is full. This keeps more of the float at 32ÂºF, which is going to be warmer than the air and the sides of the waterer. This will help with it freezing, too, as it may hang up and then let go with just that bit of heat held in the float from the water itself. But it's hard to keep things from freezing in really cold weather and sometimes it's just keeping after it with hot water everytime you feed. 

Or buy more cows so the waterer is used more often. You get a small number of animals drinking and those frost proof waterers don't work quite as well.


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## Awnry Abe (Mar 21, 2012)

More cows. Or 5-gallon buckets of hot water dumped in to defrost.


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## SCRancher (Jan 11, 2011)

If it's freezing where the water pipe is coming up out of the ground then either put a ground tube over it (basically just a pvc pipe over it to help the ground heat keep that area from dropping below freezing OR do like I did and pile dirt over the water line/valve.


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## Gripshover (Apr 29, 2012)

Thanks for the advice. I was able to get the lid off last night. I think the float is freezing stuck and not dropping when they drink. I'm going to try to adjust the float a little and hope for warmer weather.


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## agmantoo (May 23, 2003)

I have some 2 hole waterers that will freeze if the temps drop below 10 to 11 F if I do not install the large plastic balls in the holes where the animals drink. Normally I leave the hole enclosures (plastic balls) out to allow the animals to drink faster as the drinkers are on the verge of being to small for the number of animals using the device.


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## Bret (Oct 3, 2003)

My Ritchie one hole-er with the floating plastic disc froze over with the south wind and sub zero temp. I did not sleep well worrying about it. I covered with the two layers of leftover geotextile fabric and put a hair dryer under it to thaw it out. It was OK when it returned to just normal freezing weather. 

I bought a 250 watt infrared bulb and fixture for my peace of mind if the temp dips again this week if needed. I checked on it twice yesterday and it was OK at 12 degrees outside temp. Good luck team mates. We're in the game, not on the bench.


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## Highland (May 10, 2002)

Haveing problems with the balls freezeing fast with my two hole waterer.Hopeing for warmer weather !


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## Bret (Oct 3, 2003)

Highland said:


> Haveing problems with the balls freezeing fast with my two hole waterer.Hopeing for warmer weather !


Testing. Testing. One, two, three.

This completes my test.


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## Awnry Abe (Mar 21, 2012)

Highland said:


> Haveing problems with the balls freezeing fast with my two hole waterer.Hopeing for warmer weather !


Lube the rim


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## G. Seddon (May 16, 2005)

I tried putting vaseline around the rim (Ritchie waterers) and it made no difference. The vaseline froze also. Is there some other lubricating stuff that you can use? It's worse when there is slush, snow, or ice. 

The plastic balls develop an inch-thick rim of ice around the widest part. When this happens, I use my heel to kick the ball loose (if I can) or I pour some warm water over the ball and wait a bit, then kick it; then I try to turn the ball so that I can smack the ice with a rock to break it up the ice and remove it. 

The bad part is we have heating elements for the waterers but they were never installed. That figures. Haven't had temps here like this in more than 20 years they say. 

Spring's going to look good this year and I won't even complain when I see the first fly!


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## Awnry Abe (Mar 21, 2012)

Sorry G. I don't have any hands-on experience with them. I was interested in that style and was asking a guy at the farm store how they held up in winter, and he said 'lube the rim'. Mine non-ball type are doing fine, so I didn't put much more thought into what he said until this thread.


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## G. Seddon (May 16, 2005)

That's okay, maybe someone else will know. Thanks anyway!!!


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## WildernesFamily (Mar 11, 2006)

We use this for our 2 hole auto waterer (2 cows and 4 goats using it): 

http://www.orschelnfarmhome.com/hotscot-heater-for-waterer/ctl16754/cp58380/si6370854/cl1/

It attaches onto the underneath of the trough. On incredibly cold mornings like today we still have to remove some ice, but for the most part it keeps the water moving. We also usually keep one side closed off unless we have animals in both fields.

ETA: If you have the plastic inside fittings instead of the brass, consider swapping out for the brass, ours freezes a lot less that way.


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## Awnry Abe (Mar 21, 2012)

Re: brass vs. plastic.

Do you mean the actual valve and plumbing parts? Interesting. Do those ball style waterers have a supply line that comes in contact with the tank water? The "freeze-proof" kind I have is plumbed similarly to a toilet float, with the verticle stem of the valve fed on the interior of a large PVC that is resting inside of a deep hole to take advantage of geothermal heat. The water supply line and valve never comes into contact with the water reservoir. The waterer has a hood that creates an airspace for the float and valve and keeps the geothermal airspace air from mixing with outside air--as long as it has water. But eventually the whole thing will become a block of ice with no drinking--but the valve takes a *very* long time to freeze.

Re: Ritchie waterers. I have two small goat ones. They work great. I ran electric to them when I plumbed them, because they hold so little water that I didn't think there would ever be a chance that a bunch of goats could keep it from freezing, and I was right. I use submersible heaters in the tank and a cord style heater on the supply.


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## Bret (Oct 3, 2003)

I learned this from HT and had success today with it. Thanks Jennifer L. and Awnry Abe.

The one-holer was starting to freeze over at chore time. I took a large drink cooler full of hot tap water to the farm and poured it in. The hot water freed the floating disk on the Ritchie Waterer right away and I went on with the other chores. Made it a short job which is good in the cold. The heater was trying to keep up. Thanks.


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## Ritchie Ind (Jan 28, 2014)

Bret said:


> My Ritchie one hole-er with the floating plastic disc froze over with the south wind and sub zero temp. I did not sleep well worrying about it. I covered with the two layers of leftover geotextile fabric and put a hair dryer under it to thaw it out. It was OK when it returned to just normal freezing weather.
> 
> I bought a 250 watt infrared bulb and fixture for my peace of mind if the temp dips again this week if needed. I checked on it twice yesterday and it was OK at 12 degrees outside temp. Good luck team mates. We're in the game, not on the bench.


Hi Bret, this is Ritchie Industries. We wanted to offer some extra tips for your Thrifty King CT1. Be sure that your white closures is sitting at least 1/2" to 1" below the rim to allow water to wash off the side. Also, we strongly recommend not turning on the bulb under the unit. We have heaters specifically designed for our waterers that can easily plug in underneath if needed. The light bulbs are not designed to heat the units and could damage them. Please let us know if you have questions about your Thrifty King, we are happy to help.


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## Ritchie Ind (Jan 28, 2014)

G. Seddon said:


> I tried putting vaseline around the rim (Ritchie waterers) and it made no difference. The vaseline froze also. Is there some other lubricating stuff that you can use? It's worse when there is slush, snow, or ice.
> 
> The plastic balls develop an inch-thick rim of ice around the widest part. When this happens, I use my heel to kick the ball loose (if I can) or I pour some warm water over the ball and wait a bit, then kick it; then I try to turn the ball so that I can smack the ice with a rock to break it up the ice and remove it.
> 
> ...


Hi this is Ritchie Industries. Your white closures should be sitting at least 1/2" - 1" below the rim. This will allow water to wash of the side and not pool around the edges causing them to freeze. Please let us know if you have any other questions about the waterers. We are happy to help.


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## SCRancher (Jan 11, 2011)

Nice to see an industry rep on HT answering questions!


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## genebo (Sep 12, 2004)

I love having the Ritchie Industries guy chime in. I'll remember that the next time I'm buying.

I have a Behlen two holer now, and while it has never frozen, I may still take Ritchie's advice and lower the level to keep the closures from touching the rim.

That may make the goats more willing to drink from them. They prefer to drink now from other sources. Probably because of the effort of pushing down the ball.


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## Ritchie Ind (Jan 28, 2014)

genebo said:


> I love having the Ritchie Industries guy chime in. I'll remember that the next time I'm buying.
> 
> I have a Behlen two holer now, and while it has never frozen, I may still take Ritchie's advice and lower the level to keep the closures from touching the rim.
> 
> That may make the goats more willing to drink from them. They prefer to drink now from other sources. Probably because of the effort of pushing down the ball.


Hi Genebo, Let us know if you have any questions about our waterers. We have waterers that are specifically designed for goats. I wish I could offer more information regarding your current models. Our waterers are specifically designed to have our closures lowered so hopefully this will work for you. Please let us know if you have any questions. We welcome them.


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## Bret (Oct 3, 2003)

Ritchie Ind said:


> Hi Bret, this is Ritchie Industries. We wanted to offer some extra tips for your Thrifty King CT1. Be sure that your white closures is sitting at least 1/2" to 1" below the rim to allow water to wash off the side. Also, we strongly recommend not turning on the bulb under the unit. We have heaters specifically designed for our waterers that can easily plug in underneath if needed. The light bulbs are not designed to heat the units and could damage them. Please let us know if you have questions about your Thrifty King, we are happy to help.


Thank you. I have the older all metal Commander 1. I could see that the bulb fixture over the top for a few minutes would have been too much and I could not take my attention away from it. Added some warm water to free the disc. Temps have moderated and the standard heater is keeping up for now.


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## Ritchie Ind (Jan 28, 2014)

Bret said:


> Thank you. I have the older all metal Commander 1. I could see that the bulb fixture over the top for a few minutes would have been too much and I could not take my attention away from it. Added some warm water to free the disc. Temps have moderated and the standard heater is keeping up for now.


Thank you Bret. I misunderstood and thought you had one of our plastic waterers such as the Thrifty King. I am glad you were able to get it going again. If you need replacement heaters for the unit or have questions about the thermostat please let us know.


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## Bret (Oct 3, 2003)

Ritchie Ind said:


> Thank you Bret. I misunderstood and thought you had one of our plastic waterers such as the Thrifty King. I am glad you were able to get it going again. If you need replacement heaters for the unit or have questions about the thermostat please let us know.


Thank you. When I bought it, at a near-by dealer, I also bought every replacement part to have on hand. Just for fun, is the Commander model still made?


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## Ritchie Ind (Jan 28, 2014)

Bret said:


> Thank you. When I bought it, at a near-by dealer, I also bought every replacement part to have on hand. Just for fun, is the Commander model still made?


Commander was discontinued however all parts are still available. We have updated the unit the the Eco 1. Same design with a stainless steel trough and parts but it has a flip top cover for easy cleaning.


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## G. Seddon (May 16, 2005)

Ritchie Ind said:


> Hi this is Ritchie Industries. Your white closures should be sitting at least 1/2" - 1" below the rim. This will allow water to wash of the side and not pool around the edges causing them to freeze. Please let us know if you have any other questions about the waterers. We are happy to help.


I think it's great that we have the mfr. posting on this topic. 

I'm not sure what the 1/2"-1" will accomplish. Won't the gap allow the freezing air to get to the water around the sides and underneath the ball? The combination of snow, slush, and cow slobber makes it very difficult to break loose, so after removing as much snow and ice as I can, I pour some warm (not hot) water over the openings and wait a few minutes until I can kick it loose with my heel. (The same thing happens on a two-hole waterer in the shade with 10 donkeys using it.) 

What am I doing wrong? I'm not mechanically inclined, so I am at a loss as to what I ought to be doing in this situation. I hope these cold snaps are few and far between.

Here's what I've got: a 4-hole split between two pastures. No heavy traffic on this waterer (only 3 cows on the shady side, 2 big donkeys on the sunny side). Temp this morning was 4*F. It's now up to 30*F so I went out and got some photos. 

4-hole, shady side:


Closeup of shady side, one of the openings:




Sunny side, still has ice built up at 30*F:


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## Ritchie Ind (Jan 28, 2014)

G. Seddon said:


> I think it's great that we have the mfr. posting on this topic.
> 
> I'm not sure what the 1/2"-1" will accomplish. Won't the gap allow the freezing air to get to the water around the sides and underneath the ball? The combination of snow, slush, and cow slobber makes it very difficult to break loose, so after removing as much snow and ice as I can, I pour some warm (not hot) water over the openings and wait a few minutes until I can kick it loose with my heel. (The same thing happens on a two-hole waterer in the shade with 10 donkeys using it.)
> 
> ...


Hi G. Thank you so much for the pictures! The waterers are designed to have the closures sit that low so that the water doesn't pool around the edges. All of our published testing implements this setting. Once the air temperature reaches freezing point, the waterer will lose about 1 degree per hour. Honestly G. you are doing absolutely nothing wrong other than not having enough head drinking from the unit. The Thrifty King 4 is a very large waterer that can water up to 200 head. I do understand that having a larger capacity is nice but in this unusual cold snap, the animals simply are not circulating enough water. This applies to the 2 hole as well with the donkeys. The 10 head requirement that we have are full size horses or cattle. Donkeys, especially during the colder months simply are not drinking enough.

A couple things that might help until it warms up a bit is 1. Make sure that the water seal grooves are filled between the entire red top and the yellow base and the very top cover. 2. Make sure an all weather sealant is around the base of the unit to prevent air gaps. 3. You already have the closures sitting low. Remove any ice build up that may be on the closures. 4. As a last bit of an effort, try scooping water out of the unit a couple times during the day to help circulate the warmer incoming water. 

I know this cold snap is unusual and hopefully warmer weather is right around the corner. If you find that the cold weather is a repeat occurrence and if your herd size doesn't increase, adding the optional heat may be the next route to take.


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## G. Seddon (May 16, 2005)

Thanks, Ritchie! I'm going to keep doing what I'm doing and wait for warmer temperatures. Just so you know, when there are no temperature extremes or things of that nature, there is no water visible around the edges of the plastic balls; they float up to the rim. 

As far as weather sealant, I'll check with our installer who is not far from us so that I get the right product (unless you have a suggestion of what I should use?). And I'll check the water seal grooves when it warms up a bit.

I know that this 4-hole unit is overkill for our numbers in these paddocks; a 2-hole unit would have met the needs of this pasture configuration just fine. The donkeys have a heated 16-gal. bucket in their barn, but the cows depend on this Ritchie unit so I stomp on it several times a day when it's very cold to make sure they have access.

Thank you for all the suggestions and for helping us out on this thread! Very nice of you to do so!


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