# Could you live on $1000/month?



## quietintheland (Jan 10, 2013)

Hello everyone,

I came across an interesting article a few weeks back suggesting that it is possible to live on $12,000/year. Keep in mind, the person who wrote this article is single, but does seem to have a homesteading philosophy in some areas:

http://w4.telcen.com/simpleliving.html

This prompted a search for others living on $1000 per month. I came across this blog of a family of five which makes the claim to "thrive on less than $1000 per month." Unfortunately, it is no longer being updated:

http://under1000permonth.blogspot.com/

Here we are at the beginning of 2013. We've trimmed our family of 3's budget back some for the new year - we are well under $2000/month, but not anywhere close to $1000. 

For those of you who are living "off the land", is $1000/month income doable for you? If so, can you share some of the secrets that make this possible?

I look forward to everyone's responses.

QuietInTheLand


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## am1too (Dec 30, 2009)

I would feel rich on $1,000 a month. My current monthly expedatures are less than $500. No payments of anykind to anyone except electric. My phone costs $15. My air card for the puter cost me $50. Less than $100 a month for food. Normally $100 for gasoline.


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## goatlady (May 31, 2002)

Really depends on how much debt the person/family has incurred especially mtg. payments and insurance on the property.


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## Sawmill Jim (Dec 5, 2008)

Yep a thousand a month :icecream: that is close to our income now . Key thing get everything paid off. No cable tv fancy phones we use magic jack :shrug:

Couldn't do it with children home they could play me like you wouldn't believe .Last one at home had a nice car and all the gas she could burn . :whistlin:


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## Fae (Mar 9, 2005)

I sure would like some ideas because my sister will be retiring soon and that is about what she will have. She also has a 26 year old son with asbergers who is dependant on her.


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## ||Downhome|| (Jan 12, 2009)

I use to do on less then 10,000 for family of three was lacking a bit but we got by.
after a few years I was making more and added another to the fold.
that was a good few years ago and I continued to make a bit more with each year.
But something always came up to eat the extra.

As a single guy now well I could do very well on a thousand a month, 1200 would be better.


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## Guest (Jan 15, 2013)

My monthly bills are less than $125. Another $25 or so at the grocery store. Real estate tax, Homeowners insurance, and automobile insurance are paid out of a fund I set up specifically for that purpose, and amount to around $1500 a year, or another 125 a month. So, everything all told, under $300 a month. I make a 4 or 5 mile round trip into town about twice a month, and grow most of my own food, and make all my own alcohol products.


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## ||Downhome|| (Jan 12, 2009)

browser glitched double post.


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## Big Dave (Feb 5, 2006)

I can, or zero depends on what I can earn.


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## akane (Jul 19, 2011)

I lived on $600/month for about 3 years on a small farm where the forage had gone wild. Half the plants growing wild on the property were something edible and the rest was chicken fodder. I didn't feed my chickens march through nov and kept a freezer full of roos. Which also fed the dogs.


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## NamasteMama (Jul 24, 2009)

Nope no way our grocery bill alone is $1200 a month, tack on another 2200 in just rent and utilities, which if we could get out of our cracker box urban home we could cut it in half.


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## notbutanapron (Jun 30, 2011)

Once we move to the new property, it can be done. :3 Barely, but it could be done. I might challenge myself with that. If I cut my expenses down to that much I could save... enough. Yes, enough. Eeeeexcellente. *steeple fingers*


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## Bob Huntress (Dec 17, 2012)

If the wife lost her voice and became incapacitated, I could, though just my USCG pension is higher. She will testify that I can pinch a penny into a dime. I am heating the house with a wood stove, which does well. She is unhappy because I am not maintaining a temp of 80 degrees in here with the electric coils. To hear her tell the story, you would think that water freezes solid at 84 degrees F.


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## Warwalk (May 25, 2011)

If a person had no mortgage, could grow most of their own food, and didn't drive too often, I think it's highly possible for most people. Another way of looking at is would be to simply count discretionary expenses, utilities, and food ~ and then see if that dollar amount could be scrunched down to $1000. Far more manageable I'd think?


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## mekasmom (Jan 19, 2010)

We could. But I think it would be hard for young families with children.


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## Prov31Wife (Dec 20, 2012)

Now? No way. Too many things to pay off: vehicle, student loan, mortgage. Give me a few years to pay everything off, though, and then it would be doable.


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## Marshloft (Mar 24, 2008)

$1000 would be tough for anyone. I've been making 1200. for the last 6 months. The first few months were rough till I could get a handle on things. Finally was able to save a 100. a week till I had enough saved for downpayment of 600. on a 2200. truck, now I'm paying 200.a week till its payed for. Got 3 weeks left and its mine.
Then baseball season starts, both my boys will have signups the 1st wek of Feb.
It comes in, and goes out real fast.
But yeah,, it can be done. Can even be dome better with a mate than can also be in tune. And can cook a big pot of chicken and noodles that will last a week.
And on and on
GH


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## jwal10 (Jun 5, 2010)

Very easy for us and save half of it. Everything is paid for. We drink water and juice we can, no smokes, coffee or pop. Our quarterly food bill and paper products is less than $50.00. No pets, unless you count Sweeties pet rabbit but she works hard, last litter was 13. Last months electric was $35.00 and it was a little cold. Phone and internet is $19.95 a month. I barter or help harvest for our animal feed. Pretty tight ship here....James


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## Danaus29 (Sep 12, 2005)

Property payments alone (including taxes and insurance) are real close to $1,000 a month.


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## Bentley (Jul 10, 2008)

Just our health insurance is $800+.


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## JLMissouri (Dec 12, 2012)

I think it is very doable in the right situation even with a family. If you want to live like a regular american than no its not. I have lived on much less than that in the past and I didn't suffer. I didn't have a nice car or TV and didn't eat out often. I still don't have TV and don't eat out often.


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## Oldcountryboy (Feb 23, 2008)

I kind of/sort of, live on a small amount of money. My only dependable income is from a school bus driving job and I bring home right about $830 a month. I am a single father with 3 daughters at home. I have no major payments on anything. I own my own house and I basically just have my electric bill which runs anywhere from $72 to $125 per month. A landline phone/with internet for $58. per month. No vehicle payments but I do have liability insurance on two vehicles for a total of $125 per month. And one credit card payment which I pay $50 a month on. I don't buy anything with it till I've got my last purchase almost payed for. 

I heat with wood in the winter and I play in the creek or river nearby during the heat of the day during the hot summer days. That saves me a bundle of money. I hunt and forage for a lot of my food and I usually raise a big garden for most of my vegetables. However, the last few summers we've had heat droughts and insect infestation something terrible and I have not been able to raise much. Therefore, right now I am collecting Snap (foodstamps) benefits which is helping a lot. 

Seems my biggest expense is gas for two vehicles. Although I don't have to drive to work since I park my school bus at home, I still go through some $200 gas for both my vehicle and my kids vehicle that they drive back and forth to school. They go to a different school then who I drive for. Then theres household stuff,,laundry soap, dishwashing detergent, hygene essentials, etc,. and the rest of the money goes to school needs and if there's anything left, my personal needs. I put myself last on the list to get anything. Sometime I might go several months before I have enough money to by myself anything. 

If we need to replace any major appliances, get new tires, or have a vehicle worked on, we do it when we get our tax refund. The tax refund has been a life saver for us.


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## wannabechef (Nov 20, 2012)

quietintheland said:


> Hello everyone,
> 
> I came across an interesting article a few weeks back suggesting that it is possible to live on $12,000/year. Keep in mind, the person who wrote this article is single, but does seem to have a homesteading philosophy in some areas:
> 
> ...


Not being updated because they had to give up Internet and their house!!


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## kasilofhome (Feb 10, 2005)

yes, we did --927 a month- morgage 599.51 second (cost of bringing ele to land--not a boat or cc) 105 per month-- ele usage limited (turn off at the breaker boxes to control cost) 65 - 89 dollar most everything came from neighbors or the dump. Six year it suc'd no internet only at the lib. Got birds to eat free but they laid eggs and they were free ranging for thier own food got DEC approved to sell broke even but I had to collect tax and turn it in and the taxes collected was more than the profit---

We needed help so often soap, toothbrushes, ---gas I did drive when I was with out insurance I hated it. A need to mail a letter meant a stamp a rotten stamp cost freaked me out. Now, remember I live in a state were cost are higher than normal. 

What helped was finding this site. Learning and volunteering to help others 
got my mind out of our issues 
and secondly it got me meeting people and just sharing what we had exess of with someone and trading for what they had exess of. I hated living in fear of the times when shoelaces for my son became a major exspence.--Note 2 adults and one child and it was durring the childs growth spurt period. The church was where I went to learn to sew-- I did what I could. Shoes were had it killed me to smile when I hearn a mom saying to her kid --- well toss those shoes in the garbage they are dirty we we get new ones for school. I need shoes for my kid. Yes, I did retreave those shoes ==yes they were too big but in a year he had them to wear. 

I am being blunt because it can be done but it is hard and not with out hardships.


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## farmerDale (Jan 8, 2011)

Not a chance. Not even close. Not responsibly at least. Responsibly meaning being properly insured, etc. Our property taxes would be almost 1000 a month. And with 4 kids, it is more complicated.


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## Forlane (Jul 17, 2010)

Nope, at least not currently. Our rent alone is $1250 before utilities. Although it is just the wife and I, we could easily downsize if we could find a place that would accept us despite my credit rating.


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## hippygirl (Apr 3, 2010)

I just ran the numbers...if my house was paid for now (less than 8 years to go), then yes, we could live pretty good on $1000/mo and have money left over.

Now, ask me again in 2020 if I could live on that same $1000/mo and I'm quite sure you'll get a much different answer. Prices aren't going anywhere but up and that gives "them" almost 8 whole years to figure out new and inventive ways to take even more than they do now.


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## pancho (Oct 23, 2006)

Easy. When you don't have any bills a person can live on a lot less.
If I thought I would need the money I could even save half of that.


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## jadedhkr (Oct 25, 2004)

We could, if we ditched the cell phones and cut out any extra expenditures, and we are a family of 6. We have no debt, but have a child with leukemia. Even with monthly medical bills it's possible. Our utilities account for around $200/mo and with the gardening I've managed to feed us on less than $60/week in the past. It wouldn't be any fun, but we have been there before.

Just depends on what you would be willing to give up.


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## Wendy (May 10, 2002)

Nope. Our mortgage is $710 a month, I spend on average $120 per week at the grocery & that is with me growing our meat & canning a lot, I also have feed for the animals, insurance on the property/house & vehicles, plus gas. My oldest can't drive so I have to take him back & forth to work 5 days a week. I spend about $50 a week just on gas & he only works about 7 miles away. Our electric averages $175 per month, phone/internet/cell phone is a bundle package for $120 per month. We need a phone so my son can call when he is done working. His hours vary. Could do without internet, but it was actually chepaer to bundle everything together. I like to have my cell phone when I am driving in case of an emergency or if the kids need to get ahold of me. We do not do much extras as far as eating out or such. Seems no matter what we do, the electric bill doesn't change much. We also have a water bill each month of around $70.


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## Lilith (Dec 29, 2012)

now days with a family of 7, I can only say that I could do it for a short period of time (three to five months tops) I have lived through it with all of us, and it was no picnic! No phone (not even a land line) no internet, wood heat from a fireplace, things got so bad that our electricity was turned off for over a month. We survived by cooking in the fireplace and burning rendered fat in the old oil lamps we keep for emergencies, and taking cold baths. About twice a week I had to deal with child protection services. Thank god for my dad and his inventive battery bank to run a camper fridge off of after they got nasty. He would take them to his house and charge the batteries every other day transporting a new set when he would bring me fresh meats from our freezer that he graciously plugged in at his house. 
Talk about an eye opening experience! My faith in the Military's ability to pay their incapacitated soldiers (those not yet on disability but unable to work due to on the job injury) on time got a reality check, as did my budgeting! To ensure that we never have that problem again, we have enough cash stored away to live 6 months with out current spending. We also have an extra large pantry of non perishable foods. I became the disputable queen of cuponing as well! Yes, I am one of those people who can get 3 baskets of groceries valued at over $500 and walk out paying around $50 ... but you do what you got to do to feed five kids and keep them healthy. Over time have we been able to go from $300K in debt (without a home loan) to less than $1000 in debt, and two months from now should be debt free. This is the only way we have been able to get a place that is large enough to grow a garden and have chickens and horses, let alone grow more than just a flower box in a window. Through frugal living and dramatic changes to our former lifestyles, I think we could stay afloat for a short period of time on $1000 a month. I'm just glad that We won't ever have to thanks to building steady residual income.


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## greenmcdonalds (Oct 30, 2006)

I figured out my bills are only 300.00 a month. But with the prices of food and feed for the animals going up. This year I will need about another 100.00. I can only live this way because there is no house payments. Im telling my boss this year I can't afford to work for them anymore because of the gas and insurance that I have pay on my van. I will save 300.00 a month to get rid of my van and phone that I need for work. I'm a Visting Nurse. I only make 9,000 a year.


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## janetn (Apr 26, 2012)

It can be done if you are debt free, including mortgage. That is why its so important to become debt free. Once you leave the debt treadmill you are no longer a slave to your job. 

I have sat down and figured out what I could live on if I have to. Bare bones $550 a month - that does not include health insurance. But if your income is that low your going to qualify for the tax credits in Obamacare. My property taxes are relatively low compared to most also, and if my income dropped drasticly I would qualify for a homestead property tax credit too. 

Food purchases would be only things like coffee chocolate and some fruits "luxuries" I couldnt grow on my own. Instead of raising a lot of livestock which I would have to feed I would do some hunting and trapping for most protein needs. Veges I can raise and sell/barter the excess. The Amish can raise a dozen kids on less than ten thousand a year. So yes it can be done


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## celticfalcon (Jan 7, 2005)

i live on 1200 amonth.no bridge card or ssi.all i have i own outright.after my rent,cs,phone bill,and grocery shopping,i have roughly 250-300 left for me to "blow" on what i want.now mind you its just me here.one person could do it.im currently looking at buying a small house because what i pay in rent could be a house payment.
just my two cents.
tom


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## janetn (Apr 26, 2012)

I think it also depends on where you live too. Some areas of the country a thousand dollars wont get you far. Living in the city is as far as I can deduce is more expensive. A garden and a few animals go a long way in feeding yourself, plus having woods and heating with the free wood makes a big difference too. Transportation is certainly more expensive in rural areas although.
I hope I dont have to find out how little I can live on - like my perks. But its comforting knowing I could meet my basic needs on very little if I had too.


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## REDDOGTWO (Jan 14, 2013)

It would be impossible to do considering health insurance runs over $1700 a month.


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## SageLady (Jun 10, 2008)

We can and do live on less than a $1000 a month. No debt is the key.


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## Micheal (Jan 28, 2009)

Interesting......
Within a 15 mile radius of me there two apartment buildings filled with people who's income are well below the $1000 figure. Most all of them are on SS only and if'n it wasn't for Subsidized Housing and a couple of other programs I'd say would be homeless or worse. 
So to answer the broad question can you live on less then 1K - I'd have to say yes.... I know many of those that do.........


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## linda in se ny (Apr 14, 2005)

Not where I live now. It costs us over $500 a month in property taxes and that's with our 30 acres in the agricultural exemption. Definitely not the place to live cheaply.


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## Marilyn (Aug 2, 2006)

Marshloft: always easier with a partner that shares the goals and the effort it takes to get there! Until that time comes, you could figure out how to make that big pot of chicken and noodles, etc. It will be so fragrant as it cooks, it just might help to bring her around.


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## harvestmoonfarm (Nov 24, 2012)

Rent alone is $1200, plus cell phones, electric, oil bill, auto insurance, farm insurance, internet, motorcycle payment (only 2 more!), horse trailer payment (4 more), television, animal feed, gas for hubby to go back and forth to work (1.5 hours one way), plus gas for me to go back and forth to school. Nope, not doable.


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## salmonslayer (Jan 4, 2009)

We have no debt and a very good income but I find it takes money to live debt free and to me, living on that little just leave little margin for the unexpected things that happen in life. Its also been clear to me since we retired and moved to the farm that if you have a chunk of disposable income you can take advantage of deals that people without money cant avail themselves of, even though they would benefit more.

What do I mean by that? If I find a good deal on something I need I buy it and more and more folks are selling things at steep discounts because they need an immediate infusion of cash and in this economy there are some real bargains. For instance, I have a neighbor who desperately needs a pickup but he barely makes it on his income and he just cant save up even a couple thousand for a good used vehicle while I have been buying used pickups for a song, dropping a couple hundred into them and reselling them for a tidy profit. His lack of income and ability to take advantage of some of these deals is jeopardizing his ability to even keep his job while those with a little more discretionary income can actually use it to make more money (I know, basic economics). I see the same thing with purchasing food, if you only have $50.00 a week for food its a lot harder to purchase in bulk or take advantage of some of the sales that pop up that will actually save you money in the long run.

We live modestly on our little and very old farm but we live well and worry free and we love it; however, it would be a grim existence IMO if we were on such a tight margin this far out in the country and I think it would be very stressful. Could we live on 1K a month? Based on our monthly bills we probably could for a short time without dipping into savings but as soon as one of the vehicles needs new tires, or the AC breaks down, or one of the livestock needs a vet call we would be in trouble on 1K a month.

I am actually impressed when people can live on so little but I suspect with the easy availability of payday loans, title loans, or just credit in general that lots of people in that boat sooner or later get into financial trouble when they have an unexpected expense which then just further drags them down. In my neck of the woods predatory lending is alive and well and they prey on the poor, the elderly and the desperate. If you can live on 1K a month for extended periods and avoid those pitfalls then you have my admiration, I couldnt do it.


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## LittleRedHen (Apr 26, 2006)

If I was a single man, no problem! We work with a lot less per person than he does and we aren't struggling. We have no debt with anyone. We have a few luxuries (prepaid cell phones and internet) that could be shut off. But boy, $1000 a month for a single man, that would be HIGH living here for the same ratio


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## Silvercreek Farmer (Oct 13, 2005)

Ten years ago, I lived on $300/mo. I shared a one bedroom apartment with a roommate, was on my parent's insurance, ate a lot of venison, ramen noodles, leg quarters and frozen pizza. I had no car and no computer. We had some good times, but I wouldn't call it a permanent solution by any means. I felt trapped a lot of the time. My hobby was finding ways to save money and dreaming about what life would be like when I had some money. Adjusted for inflation, that would probably be around $400-$500 a month now, and if you had to buy a basic health insurance policy, figure another $300 a month. When you don't own any real estate, and don't own a car it really cuts down on potential emergency spending, so if you could save $100-$200 a month for emergencies, that would probably be enough. We didn't have anywhere to garden, but that would have helped a lot, both for food and psychologically. Now there is a community garden around 2 miles away from that apartment.


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## Terri (May 10, 2002)

DH and I lived off of $5000 a year when we were in college. Mind, those were 1975 dollars.

A tiny oldish apartment, we walked most places, and so forth. I will be interested to see how the homesteaders manage on that kind of income: I will read the responses when I get back from an appointment.


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## Cabin Fever (May 10, 2002)

REDDOGTWO said:


> It would be impossible to do considering health insurance runs over $1700 a month.


 Agreed

A person could probably live in $1000/mo, but he would be dependant on the govt (ie, taxpayers who earn more than $1000/mo) and/or the charity of others if a serious health problem arose.


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## farmerDale (Jan 8, 2011)

I am not sure if any of the "sub thousanders" are including everything or not. It appears we all seem to have different accounting practices, not just lives. I mean, sure, paid for vehicles are great, we have several. But don't kid yourselves. They still need insurance, tires, transmissions, oil, routine maintenance. If you don't do that, which costs a lot of money in the first place, spread over a year, then you are looking at some serious coin at some point, due to the lack of maintenance attention.

What about buildings? Shingling? Putting on tin. These expenses to me, need to be spread out into a monthly column, so you can make a half accurate budget.

Talk of "free firewood". Sure , it did not cost much CASH, but there is still a cost, nothing is free. 

Many have spoken of their "free" meat. Now, did you feed the animals anything? Heck, I grow grains for a living, and feed my animals bin sweepings etc., and I do not class the meat I raise as "free".

I simply think many seem to have a different approach to plain accounting methods. The more I read, the more I see this.

Life insurance? Farm insurance? Vehicle insurance? 

I just think many are looking at this with different accounting practices in mind. To me, not budgeting or planning for routine maintenance, life insurance, or other costs of living, one is asking for long term major pain.

Not looking for a scrap here, just saying we seem to have different ideals...

My family COULD live on 1000 a month, if we choose to be irresponsible with our maintenance, our futures: At some point, the leaking roof, the flat tires, the blown transmission, and the main bread winner dying, or getting sick, is gonna hit like a ton of bricks. Neglecting any one of these is pure folly in my opinion.


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## Usingmyrights (Jan 10, 2011)

I could probably do it if I didn't have a mortgage or child support.


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## sidepasser (May 10, 2002)

I was going to ask if anyone of those that say they are living on a 1,000 or less a month have health insurance or vehicle insurance? 

What about routine house maintenance - painting, roofing the house/barn/sheds when they need it, fencing that has to be repaired, lawnmowers or tractors that need repairs? Tires for the car, truck, trailers? 

Is any of this stuff calculated in your 1,000 a month budget? What about house insurance - do you carry any house insurance? Taxes for property?

In other words, is everything calculated in as a budget item per month including health, medicine, home upkeep, farm upkeep, etc?

I am now married, but as a single mom with one kid in college, there was no way I could live on 1,000 a month as I still had farm upkeep, vehicle upkeep, tractor maintenance, payments for taxes for the farm and tags/insurance for the vehicles.

that did not take into consideration money spent for kid to go to college or any "extras" like a cell phone. I budget for all things and if a fence has to be replaced, well wood posts are not cheap, even if you can cut down cedar trees and make posts, there is still the chainsaw maintenance, oil, gas, etc. New fence to be purchased and put up. I have to replace the shingles on two hay feeders. That is going to run about 500. by the time I buy tar paper, new decking for one, shingles and roofing nails.

All those things add up. So for those that live on 1,000 a month, do you count all that stuff in your budget? If not, how do you plan for something like tires, roofing, new water heater, etc?


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## oldmania (Jan 25, 2007)

I see some referencing subsidized housing and food stamps. Use of either would negate the claim of living on less than $1 K. We are debt free and own our own home. Property tax, personal property tax, auto insurance, health insurance and homeowner's insurance probably come to over $1 K per month. Rather than trying to live on such a small amount, I would spend time and energy trying to increase income, if possible.


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## Guest (Jan 15, 2013)

I do my accounting by counting money. But, I don't count time as money. Everything I have is paid for. Always has been. I worked hard saved my money and bought my place. Same with my car. All the trucks I ever had, all the tractors I ever had, everything. No credit, never. I don't have live insurance because I couldn't possibly collect on it. If my children want to have life insurance on me, that's up to them. And I don't have health insurance because I'm pretty careful about what I put in my body. And when it's time to die, I'm ready. Been around plenty long enough. I built this house myself 7 years ago, I'm pretty sure it will outlast me. I did account for automobile insurance, homeowners, and real estate taxes in my accounting.I drive about 20 miles a month. 
Meat runs down through the woods. If I need some, I sit out there a while and shoot some. I raised chickens for years by letting them free range. My children are grown and gone, and my wife passed away some time back and I'm not going to be getting another one. So, I live fine on less than $300 a month. That is not to say that I only have $300 a month. That is how much it costs me to live.


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## suitcase_sally (Mar 20, 2006)

Bob Huntress said:


> I am heating the house with a wood stove, which does well. She is unhappy because I am not maintaining a temp of 80 degrees in here with the electric coils. To hear her tell the story, you would think that water freezes solid at 84 degrees F.


Apparently she hasn't hit menopause yet.


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## suitcase_sally (Mar 20, 2006)

REDDOGTWO said:


> It would be impossible to do considering health insurance runs over $1700 a month.


That's over $20,000/yr. I think I would just bank the $20,000 and in 10 years you would have $200,000 + interest.


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## Ohio dreamer (Apr 6, 2006)

I think the key is debt. Due to our house payment, we couldn't do it. Once our house is paid off, yeah $1,000 a month would be very do-able, even with a few luxury items in the budget. This is assuming DH is still working and keeps our current healthcare benefits at their current cost.


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## vanet (Aug 30, 2011)

We are a Family of 7 and we live on less than $1000 a month. Actually allot less. First the situation. We have no debt at all. Our main expenses are for insurance. Our taxes only amount to a little less than 200 yr for property. We spend about $30 a month on things we cant make for ourselves. Vehicle maintaince runs another $30 month. We have homeowners and vehicle insurance only. No health insurance or life insurance both by choice, but that is a different discussion.

That being said, keep in mind we spent allot more than that for several years, to get to this point. We have solar and wind electric which has already paid for it self, but cost several thousand dollars. We have a mini farm set-up all paid for with all the equipment and back-up we could ever need. We have two paid for Trucks that run on used motor oil, so no fuel bill, but the set-up to process the oil and the trucks were not cheap. Our tractor also runs on used motor oil. We have an electric car which has solar panels on the roof that will need batteries about every 6 to 10 years. Our solar system will also need batteries at some point down the road, which has been figured in. We also have a $5000 dollar emergency fund for anything that goes wrong, as well as Many times that invested for the future or in case of a death of myself or my spouse. Although we are able to save each month even at a thousand a month. We made allot more than that for several years to get to this point.

So the moral is yes you can live very comfortably on less than $1000 a month *IF* you get yourself set up for it first. We pinched pennies for years and did every project like it needed to last forever to get to this point. At this point we dont have to live on less than $1000 a year but we do by choice.


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## emdeengee (Apr 20, 2010)

Live on $1000 a month AND build and save for the future and especially for independence? Absolutely not. Such an income sentences you and your children to abject poverty and threatens their future, their security and their safety.


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## Guest (Jan 15, 2013)

There is a huge difference in saying "Yes we live on $1000 a month" and "we only have $1000 a month" Everybody don't feel the need to drizzle away every cent of their income.


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## StaceyS (Nov 19, 2003)

Living by myself, yes, I can (and have) rent a studio for $425/mo, all util included except electric. My highest electric bill there in the middle of a snowy winter was $13. Insurance for my truck is $35/mo, the studio is within 2 miles form my work so I "could" walk if needed, otherwise figure $70/ two weeks for gas, cell phone w/internet $60/mo. Of course if I was only making $1000, I wouldn't be working full time... That leaves $340/mo for food & other stuff. It wasn't fun having neighbors so close, but it is doable...


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## vanet (Aug 30, 2011)

zong said:


> There is a huge difference in saying "Yes we live on $1000 a month" and "we only have $1000 a month" Everybody don't feel the need to drizzle away every cent of their income.


 You are quite right, but the question was "Can" you live on $1000 a month. right?:shrug:


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## rileyjo (Feb 14, 2005)

In 2005, I lived on $8,500 for the year. In 2006, I made a bit over $10,000.
I was single, renting, no debt and I rode a bicycle everywhere. I live in Canada and had no healthcare worries. I worked 2 and 3 jobs at a time and decided that I needed to go back to college or this was what my future was going to be like forever.
After that, I had student loans and then student debt. I bought a cheap car and moved to take on a good paying job. I ended up taking on more debt to put my kids thru university.

I am pretty minimalist in my lifestyle and I live well now but I have taken the lessons from those years to heart. The secret is get out of debt and have a plan for your future and old age.


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## grandma12703 (Jan 13, 2011)

emdeengee said:


> Live on $1000 a month AND build and save for the future and especially for independence? Absolutely not. Such an income sentences you and your children to abject poverty and threatens their future, their security and their safety.


 
Not true at all! Depends where you are and if you have large debt when you begin at the $1,000.00 month. If you are living off grid comfortably as we do and have your car and home paid for with no other bills I would say heck yeah and still put up at least 5% of it for emergencies. Buy a high deductible insurance $250.00 a month and add a aflac catastrophic insurance for $70.00 a month to help pay the deductible if need be.

Breakdown: Just an example

Groceries for 3 (less if you grow more as we do) $200.00
Gasoline (working within 15 miles of home) $140.00
Misc. items $50.00 
Health insurance $320.00
Car insurance $55.00 (unless brand new car)
Savings $50.00
Chicken feed $25.00 (gotta have for eggs and meat)
Goat feed $25.00 (milk and meat)
Cellphone (prepaid) $50.00 for two phones for 1500 minutes
Clothes $50.00
Leaves $35.00 to do what you need to do or 3 mcdonalds dollar meals for 3 of us.


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## ronbre (Apr 26, 2009)

i have lived on less than $1000 a month a lot of my adult life..and if you are talking about $1000 per month per person..Hell Yes


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## Guest (Jan 15, 2013)

vanet said:


> You are quite right, but the question was "Can" you live on $1000 a month. right?:shrug:


Right, I was speaking to the posters who seem to think it means otherwise. Theres nothing wrong with sticking half or more of your income away. I never have understood spending every cent I have and depending on next month's paycheck.
I also don't understand why there is such a huge concern about health insurance. As You get older, you need to be aware that at some point you will die. You can either be in control of that and write up your living will and discuss your plans with your children, or you can take your chances. When I get sick enough, I'm outta here. The hospitals will just have to find some other body to experiment on, trying to keep alive for one more day at $10k a day. The day I can't get out of this chair and do what I want to do, I'm done. No regrets.


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## pancho (Oct 23, 2006)

Not everyone can live on $1000 a month.
Many don't seem to live on any amount that they can earn.


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## vanet (Aug 30, 2011)

pancho said:


> Not everyone can live on $1000 a month.
> Many don't seem to live on any amount that they can earn.


You are so right! I had an employee a while back, that no matter how much I gave him on Friday. He had to borrow gas money on monday. I am not talking minimum wage, he had some weekly checks over $3000. His utiities were constantly getting shut off, and he never had anything. I guess he had a "good time" though?


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## am1too (Dec 30, 2009)

pancho said:


> Not everyone can live on $1000 a month.
> Many don't seem to live on any amount that they can earn.


Ususally the citiodts trying to keep up with the Jones who they do not like anyway.


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## fantasymaker (Aug 28, 2005)

salmonslayer said:


> If I find a good deal on something I need I buy it
> 
> We live modestly on our little and very old farm but we live well and worry free and we love it; however, it would be a grim existence IMO if we were on such a tight margin this far out in the country and I think it would be very stressful.
> .


LOL I have said before the rich can live cheaper, simpler than the poor.
A man with a good credit card and a cell phone could easily cross the country as a hobo. If he hit a tough spot or bad weather he could call a cab and spend a night in the hilton.
A guy with a little less would cross the country in a nice car and just buy gas but a guy with very little money will want to take a car with lots of camping equipment and tools...just in case.
Like you I have found with a few thousand in the bank its easy to live cheep and well but when that bank account is low its much harder.
If I spend $2000 buy a nice truck worth a lot more and it runs well for 5 years I have only spent $33.33 a month on my truck, cheaper than buying a $500 truck every few months and putting $100 in parts in it every month cause thats all I can get together at the same time.


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## sidepasser (May 10, 2002)

grandma12703 said:


> Not true at all! Depends where you are and if you have large debt when you begin at the $1,000.00 month. If you are living off grid comfortably as we do and have your car and home paid for with no other bills I would say heck yeah and still put up at least 5% of it for emergencies. Buy a high deductible insurance $250.00 a month and add a aflac catastrophic insurance for $70.00 a month to help pay the deductible if need be.
> 
> Breakdown: Just an example
> 
> ...


What about house insurance and repairs to the house/farm/barn? Does that come out of savings? What about if the vet is needed for the goats?


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## countryfied2011 (Jul 5, 2011)

> What about house insurance and repairs to the house/farm/barn? Does that come out of savings? What about if the vet is needed for the goats?


Or what about property taxes? That is one thing you don't ever get out of paying at least not where I live...lol


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## sherry in Maine (Nov 22, 2007)

I dont have debt.
I do have property tax.
I do have car insurance.
I do have home insurance.
I do have to pay double the electric in winter (not as bad as when we relied on furnace in winter, now we have pellet stove, but it still runs on electric)
Pay a few bucks for computer.
Each year my 2005 gmc truck needs some kind of repair, big or small (guess that's called 'maintenance'.....)
Even though I buy half pig & beef from my neighbor, could probably buy cheaper stuff on sale....but, would have to spend gas to get where the cheap stuff is...
I garden, so some stuff is home grown.
If I wanted, I could spend much less than $100 per week, but I haven't factored in the price of the meat I'm having delivered this week....
Milk is very expensive.
I buy stuff on sale when I can.
Yes, I can do it on less, but some months there are 'other stuff' that pop up, which make it a squeeze. 
I try not to use my truck alot, because to 'do' or 'go' anywhere is generally a 45 minute ride one way. Gas pretty expensive.
Yes, kids can cause you to part with money; they cant be expected to be happy with peace and quiet and simplicity all of the time.


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## grandma12703 (Jan 13, 2011)

sidepasser said:


> What about house insurance and repairs to the house/farm/barn? Does that come out of savings? What about if the vet is needed for the goats?


 
Well house insurance is an issue if you choose to carry it. If you don't mind fixing things yourself sometimes you can get a really reasonable home owners insurance excluding the roof. Sounds crazy but for some of us we built it we will fix it again if need be. We keep several medications, Vit. B complex among other things stocked up and I guess that is how you would do it. Learn how to care for your animals yourself if money is extremely tight. JMO


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## emdeengee (Apr 20, 2010)

grandma12703 said:


> Not true at all! Depends where you are and if you have large debt when you begin at the $1,000.00 month. If you are living off grid comfortably as we do and have your car and home paid for with no other bills I would say heck yeah and still put up at least 5% of it for emergencies. Buy a high deductible insurance $250.00 a month and add a aflac catastrophic insurance for $70.00 a month to help pay the deductible if need be.
> 
> Breakdown: Just an example
> 
> ...


As others have pointed out you are missing out a few important items such as property tax and you do not mention co-pays for your medical or prescriptions or repair, maintenance and replacement costs and nothing about retirement savings. But my comment is about the 5% for emergency. On a $1000 income that is $50 a month which is inadequate to meet any real emergency particularly one that is long term. 

We have no debt and are very frugal in our lifestyle. We are as self sufficient as we are able to be and our goal is independence. Independent means the ability to fund yourself if/when faced with unemployment, disability, medical and retirement. $1000 a month keeps you afloat for today but not for the future. 

I also have a real issue with those who earn so little that they pay no income tax. I believe in a flat tax for everyone no matter how little or how much you earn. The tax laws as they exist now allow those who pay no tax to benefit off the work of others. Even if you do not legally have to pay tax you should be contributing voluntarily to the running and protection of your country. Five or ten percent on $1000 would be $50 or $100 a month.


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## Guest (Jan 15, 2013)

Once again, living on a thousand dollars a month is not the same as making a thousand dollars a month. 
Any issues you have with the income tax laws are wasted in an internet forum. Nobody here wrote those laws.
Nobody seemed to have any issues when *I* paid in a million dollars over the last 46 years. Except me.


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## Elizabeth (Jun 4, 2002)

Double post.


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## Elizabeth (Jun 4, 2002)

Let' see, health insurance for our family of two adults and one toddler runs $733 per month, and we have a $5000 deductible, plus we pay out of pocket for my two prescriptions. Dental we pay out of pocket.

So, nope, looks like we can barely pay our health and dental expenses on $1000 month!


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## Liberty'sGirl (Jul 7, 2012)

Don't think so, but we are at about $2500 a month now. IF we were totally out of debt and did not go anywhere maybe we could make it. Taxes would also get us as I think they would continue to rise. Our utilities are rather high, I think due to location.

We are working on Debt Proof Living so we will be out of debt sooner rather than later.


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## salmonslayer (Jan 4, 2009)

fantasymaker said:


> LOL I have said before the rich can live cheaper, simpler than the poor.
> A man with a good credit card and a cell phone could easily cross the country as a hobo. If he hit a tough spot or bad weather he could call a cab and spend a night in the hilton.
> A guy with a little less would cross the country in a nice car and just buy gas but a guy with very little money will want to take a car with lots of camping equipment and tools...just in case.
> Like you I have found with a few thousand in the bank its easy to live cheep and well but when that bank account is low its much harder.
> If I spend $2000 buy a nice truck worth a lot more and it runs well for 5 years I have only spent $33.33 a month on my truck, cheaper than buying a $500 truck every few months and putting $100 in parts in it every month cause thats all I can get together at the same time.


 Yes, that is the dichotomy between the doing well and the barely scraping by I was referring to. The way things are set up with our economy those who are living marginally will have a very tough time pulling themselves up and often tend to slip further down the economic security scale while those with even just a little more cushion have a much better chance to improve their standard of living and security.

Zong has a good point too though, if the question was could you live on just 1K per month of your current income and bank the rest the answer would be a lot easier to say yes for some of us that dont have debt. I just think most of us took the question to be if you only had 1K per month could you live on that.

For me, I could live on 1K per month if we lived in an urban area, rented a small place, and had access to public transportation or could walk or something but living 24 miles from the nearest grocery and having a farm to maintain pretty much puts that out of reach. I also admit to not wanting to live the life of a hermit or feel trapped by my life style, we like to travel, take vacations, we have numerous hobbies that arent cheap, and frankly after working our entire adult lives we dont want to do without in our retirement. Thats just our personal situation and not a dig at others who live differently but for me, if I only had $35 to blow a month or could only put $50 in savings I would be very uncomfortable and very unhappy.


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## grandma12703 (Jan 13, 2011)

sherry in Maine said:


> I dont have debt.
> I do have property tax.
> I do have car insurance.
> I do have home insurance.
> ...


 
My kids are grown and gone but I have to say this. We had three of our own and 21 foreign exchange kids over the years. We still ate on not much more than mentioned. I always cooked from scratch and kept the meals reasonable...goulash, spaghetti, chicken and noodles, chicken and dumplings, stew, pigs in a blanket, homeade corndogs...that type of stuff. Filling but cheap to make. Eggs in the morning and cookies for a snack. Tea and water to drink and no bought soft drinks. For entertainment we played board games, rode horses, hunted, fished, worked in the garden and played basketball on a dirt outside goal (those were sometimes intense). 

Our three went to college on athletic and academic scholarships in basketball and football and all of the exchange kids have also been successful and are in contact and visit as much as they can so that tells you they were very active in extra curricular in school. However, unlike most folks we bought their shoes, etc off of clearance athletic sites online (no team shoes at $150.00 a pair) I think the most I ever paid was $15.00 for a pair of last year or the year before models which were almost exactly like the ones everyone else had. Eastbay always had underarmor for football cheap on clearance and more. I didn't buy second hand because I knew they would wear a new pair out each year and so I never thought used would make it through a season. My kids all had part time jobs on the weekends when they turned 14. Made their money for their extra's. They all showed livestock which we paid for their first year and then they used their winnings from then on. They even put their money together and bought an old pick up truck which they all loved and the kids in town even gave the name "the turd".. It was famous and you guessed it, brown. They were always told academics were how they would pay for college so they worked hard for great grades. 2 valedictorians and 1 salutatorian. The sports scholarships were just extra for their hard work. Now we have a teacher, a mental health counselor, and a construction worker. 

Who knows? Maybe having to live in poverty (according to some people's ideas) with parents who would not ask for any handouts, do chores, have a job, keep their grades up, pay for their own junk food, among other horrible things made them turn out this way.. HMMMMMMM....think I would do it again. 

BTW we were not responsible for the exchange students spending money. We only fed and housed them and had a lot of fun with them a part of our family.


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## FunnyRiverFarm (May 25, 2010)

I know it's not possible for us with our current lifestyle. Our mortgage payment is almost $1,300/month, homeowner's insurance is about $1,000/year...our vehicles are both paid for but our insurance and registration for both comes out to about $2,500/year. Our share of employer-sponsered health/dental/vision insurance is $340/month. Property taxes are around $1,500/year. I don't know the exact amount we spend on food...not much because there's only 2 of us for the most part. Then there's gas, propane for hot water heating (we heat mainly with wood we cut ourselves), electric bills, pet/livestock feed and vetting costs, household needs, maintenance and repairs, etc.


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## vicki in NW OH (May 10, 2002)

Sure, we have in the past. We're debt free.

As far as what happens when needing to replace roofs, etc., that's easy, just go work somewhere temporarily to get the money needed.


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## bluemoonluck (Oct 28, 2008)

I think it really depends on where you live :shrug: In some parts of the country, the cost of living is low enough that you could make ends meet on $1,000/month. If you rented a room in a house or had roommates, for example, that would mean a lower rent....groceries cost different amounts depending on where you live (my grocery bill dropped 30% when I moved to Utah from VA - same foods, same stores, lower prices :shrug... utilities are different prices depending on where you live, etc. 

If you lived someplace that had good public transportation you could give up your car (no car payment, maintenance, vehicle tax, inspection fees, gas, etc) and ride the bus for a lot cheaper. But if you lived someplace that had terrible/no public transport, you'd NEED that car.

When I was in college I lived on way less than $1,000/month. Of course that was in the 90's :croc:. But I made an effort to live frugally and I still think it can be done today, depending on the circumstances.



Fae said:


> I sure would like some ideas because my sister will be retiring soon and that is about what she will have. She also has a 26 year old son with asbergers who is dependant on her.


If he has Aspergers and he isn't able to work, he may qualify for SSI benefits. However most Aspies (since they are HIGH functioning Autistic) can get a job doing something, even if it's sorting clothing at the Goodwill. My DD is an Aspie and I'm pretty familiar with the condition. Is he not able to work at all?


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## mamita (May 19, 2008)

we can and often do. hubs works sometimes very steady, but then things in construction take a dive. that means (self-employed) no income for weeks sometimes. BUT we are not a young family, and that would be way different. we have no mortgage, low property taxes, no credit cards, no fancy tv cable. that leaves a small electric bill, phone (includes internet), food, and the ever present money eating health insurance. that eats up the grand, but does cover all costs we have in our life. heat with wood, but we do buy a 250 gal. tank of oil every 3 years or so for back-up of the furnace. hub will be retired in April. funny, but we'll feel kind of sweet with that steady income for a change.  we have savings, but thankfully haven't had to tap in to any of it yet. I figure we won't when he retires either. our truck and car are paid for, we try to maintain them well. so far that's been worth it. too bad those darn tires are so pricey, tho, eh? lol


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## Farmer Dave (Jan 1, 2003)

I've been living on my savings since spring of 2011 when my unemployment ran out. My savings was intended for building a home on my homestead when I retire. I was putting money aside since 2001 when I bought my homestead. Now I'm living off that money. At my age I can't find work so I will take early retirement this fall when I turn 62 years old. After taxes I estimate I'll be getting around $900 to $1000 per month. My house in town and my homestead land in the country are paid off, so my biggest expenses will be health, auto, and homeowners insurance bills. I live alone so my other expenses like food, utilities and gas for the autos average less then $300 or so per month.

I feel for you folks who still have a mortgage. I pay cash for everything...I didn't purchase my homestead until I had saved up the money to cover it's cost. I was getting estimates on building a home/barn on my land when I got laid off from my job in 2009.

I figure when I start getting my SS in the fall that I will build a small cabin to live in, heated with a wood stove. There is an old unheated mobile home on the property but it is uninhabitable in the wintertime. I installed a septic system and ran city water back to the MH years ago. I have electric installed as well so I'm all set as far as utilities go. One of my largest expenses living here in town is the sewer and drainage bills that keeps going up year after year. The other large expense here in town is for natural gas. My homestead is 10 acres of mostly woods so I have plenty of free firewood even though most of it is scrub pines...it all produces heat. I will be able to live a LOT cheaper on the homestead than I am here in the city...that's for sure.


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## notasnowballs (Dec 28, 2010)

Um... my daughter and I lived off less than that for the majority of her childhood. Now there is my husband added to that mix for the last two years. The elderly and disabled in the U.S. are expected to live off of $500-$700 AND pay premiums for all of the B.S. medical programs that are "made available" to them. It is a poor life. You go to the foodbank. You get foodstamps when you can, if the state says you don't make "too much money", which is hilarious, because apparently having a car or a phone is not considered a necessity, but an asset that could be sold before they give you foodstamps. If you live out in the sticks, they expect you to move into town and get on a waiting list for subsidized housing where, I'm sorry, but... most of the druggies live. Ya, that's the environment I want MY kid in! NOT. 

The place I live in is a total trash heap. My husband is kind of a slob, and needs constant motivation to stay on task. He is mentally disabled and really has a hard time holding down a "normal" job, but he refuses to go on disability because he wants to be a productive member of society. We live on my money, and he gets temps and part timers and brings in extra, and once in a while, he hits paydirt and pulls in a full timer with overtime and we live like kings for a bit, and try to put some aside. It seems like we're always broke, always scraping by at the end of the month. He scraps metal often to get to work. His last job, he finally ran out of money to get there, and when he got his paycheck, it was less than what he spent in gas to drive there by $20. He had to cut his losses on that one. Now the goal is to get the internet (we homeschool for safety reasons and there are drugs and school problems, so internet is required), car insurance (required by law, just like our upcoming Obamacare issue... Hmmm... I see a pattern, here), and hubby's traffic ticket (cited for no insurance- we had to pay power bill or car insurance, and got caught), and the rest of the power bill for this month. Joy...

BUT.....

He owns his own property. It is the ONE good thing we have going for us. Thus the reason we don't move into town to the drug apartments. His yearly property tax is $400. It is about an acre, and we keep a couple sheep, about 12 doe and 3 buck rabbits, a bunch of chickens, a few cats, and a big dog. Oh yea, and a couple of male ducks run around aimlessly. I (try to) grow a big garden. We barter for animal feed, so for most of the year I do not buy feed, just a bit of protien grain for the bunnies when there is extra. Bought feed is really minimal. Last fall I scored a whole flatbed truckload of free hay that fed sheepies and rabbits clear through winter. I get industrial boxloads (fills my little truck) every few weeks of tomatoes, peppers, squash, etc. and often that much bread too, from a foodbank that throws away food that is past the pull date. Sometimes there is milk. It's not my ideal feed for my critters, but they like it and they grow well. I hope they're not (too) full of artificial crap chemicals. 

I wanted to be self sufficient, so that I could get off of the government system, the American way, as it were. We have two old beater cars that are paid for, and we pray a lot that they don't break down, and if they do, we just park them until we can fix them. One commuter car for hubby, and the pickup that is mostly so I can go pick up feed and such. We make extensive use of bartering, and Craigslist free stuff. Nothing gets wasted here, either. Remodel material torn off of our mobile home goes into a scrap heap, and then hubby takes it in to cash it out so he can get more gas. Last winter, we traded pigs for fencing. Someone let me borrow their ram to breed my ewes, and I am somewhat sure I've got a lamb in there coming out in March that I can use to get something else. I have two smaller pigs (less feed, less digging and moving them around, won't hurt me as bad when they misbehave...) that will give me babies probably next year, that will get me something else. 

Do we get ahead? Probably not. We have debt out there, but it's just not getting paid on much. When you are living paycheck to paycheck, that's just the way it is. We have had some issues with family and some government people have tried to come into our property and tell us our house is not safe and we need to move, not taking into account that it is under construction. Hubby has all the materials needed, because we bought them at tax time last year. He works on the house when he is not working at his job. It takes time. So far I have fended off these people, but eventually we will have to let them in, because they will come back with a search warrant and a cop, but by then hubby will have some quick fix cosmetic things put into place. We are blessed to have a certified contractor and electrician in the family. Whew! 

It seems with us, it is moving from one expensive catastrophe to another, but we get by. I have absolutely no idea what Obamacare is going to do to us. I would like to just continue to do what we have been doing, and pay out of pocket for medical expenses when needed. I don't go to the doctor much, because I don't need to. I don't take any medications, and I won't be starting either. For me, health conditions like high blood pressure or diabetes, things like that, can be dealt with by food, because that's how they got started, by what I ate, or how much I ate. Ever heard the term, "If it ain't broke, don't fix it" ? 

On the flip side, my mother in law makes about $1600, lives in a nice, big house in yuppy rural-ville. Her house is paid for free and clear, too, but she has considerable medical expenses because she has Parkinsons. She also doesn't manage her money very well and has credit card debt and charge accounts for stupid stuff, like TV's and mail order Nike shoes. We tried and tried to get her to sell and to downsize before she officially went on disability for her disease, but she wasn't having it. Hers is a situation that may benefit from Obamacare. For now she is paying anywhere from $400-$1000 in medications per month, with a few premiums for Medicare and supplemental Medicare mixed in. That puts them down to $1000 or less to live on per month. They don't really qualify for foodstamps, even with those expenses, and they don't qualify for the medically needy spend down either, because she has to make $1200 in bills first before the state will help her. She doesn't consistently have that kind of expenses in meds because.... she gives up meds for other things. And then she wonders why she can't get any help. It's a nightmare. Their property tax is almost $2,000 per year and this year she won't qualify for the exemption, but next year, maybe. It would suck for her to lose that house that is paid for free and clear to taxes and STILL have to scrape along like that. But she wouldn't listen to us... Even so, when she dies, the state will take her house to do what they call "estate recovery", to offset the expense of the medical help they supposedly gave her (didn't give her), but they wait until she dies. They are also ripping off her other disabled son for medical that he doesn't even USE, nor is mentally competent enough to refuse or use. He constantly loses foodstamps because he isn't mentally there enough to keep them going and use them, or do the paperwork again, and doesn't cooperate with his state guardian anyway. This son lives on even less... about $500 a month. 

He does, however, live in the drug apartments in town. 

Can you live on this much? It's possible. There are measures that can be taken to make it possible, make it even a pretty good life, if the government people leave you alone. But it's a different way of life. We don't have cable tv. We don't wear name brand clothing. We don't even rarely shop for clothing. We get a lot of hand me downs, but then we hand down the hand me downs too, and trade them for wool or handmade goods like jelly or whatnot. We don't have a nice looking car. We don't have all those baubles that people fill their houses with to look nice. Our Christmas tree gets ripped off from public lands, or we cut a cherry branch from our own back yard. Our dog gets fed raw meat, supplemented with cheap farm brand dog food. If she lived on the dogfood alone, she would be riddled with moles and lumps, and have health issues. She does pretty well with her rabbit diet. The foodbank has a lot of starch foods and empty box food, so we supplement what we can. Once in a while it's a treat to buy whole, raw, milk. That's $10 a gallon though, so that's a treat. We don't eat out much, if at all... once a month, tops. My husband and I go to Home Depot and dream for our date night. My kid goes to youth group. We spend a lot less money now that she's not in a sport or in public school, but I feel she's missing out, and would like her to go back into sports. The student ID card for sports is $35. Band instrument rental was $5 a month. You pay to get into the game to watch your kid play at $5 a pop, twice a week. It gets kind of old, fast when you are on a budget. That, and because we are poor hick ******** and Mom wears barn boots and jeans and tshirts all the time... I apparently embarrass her. She should be happy that I didn't go ALLL natural and make her use natural soap, deoderant, and hair conditioner. 

But I save money with things like that, too. A bar of good soap lasts longer for our hair than a bottle of soap with plastic molecules in it and chemicals, stored in a plastic bottle that we have to dispose of. That, and it comes in a paper wrapper. Burnable or recyclable. Toothpaste is supplemented with baking soda, which works better anyway. We make a lot of our own washcloths and dishcloths out of wool from my sheep. Slippers and socks are made from wool from the sheep. Gifts for Christmas are socks, potholders, hats, etc. made from wool or recycles from the rag bin. 

It's a way of life, I suppose. People say "how can you live that way?" I consider a few years ago when I was working a job at a company that provided cell phone service. I did customer service for them, so I fielded complaints from ticked off customers all day. The company was not always honest, not always ethical, and I had to often lie or B.S. customers into thinking they were getting something for nothing, or that they were in fact NOT being ripped off. During that time in my life, I started drinking a little bit. I wasn't very happy. My then 13 year old started failing in school (again), and having major behavior problems. Because of her age, she was left to her own devices a lot while I worked 10 hour days and drove an hour each way to work, so 12 hours without parental supervision and only 7 of those in school, and 2 or 3 of those in an after school program that still didn't curb a lot of trouble. 

Funny thing is... I still had the same amount of money, after all that stress and driving gas in the car, and extra expense for stuff like convenience food because I was just too ---- tired when I got home to do jack. We lived in a tiny postage stamp apartment and shared a bedroom and I paid over half my monthly income for it. 

Nah... I think I'd rather be broke, thank you very much.


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## grandma12703 (Jan 13, 2011)

NamasteMama said:


> Nope no way our grocery bill alone is $1200 a month, tack on another 2200 in just rent and utilities, which if we could get out of our cracker box urban home we could cut it in half.


I don't really think I could spend 1200.00 on groceries every single month if I tried hard. Not judging just amazed at that amount.


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## Wendy (May 10, 2002)

> The elderly and disabled in the U.S. are expected to live off of $500-$700 AND pay premiums for all of the B.S. medical programs that are "made available" to them.


Just had to say that SS was NEVER intended to be a person's only income when they retire. 



> If he has Aspergers and he isn't able to work, he may qualify for SSI benefits. However most Aspies (since they are HIGH functioning Autistic) can get a job doing something, even if it's sorting clothing at the Goodwill. My DD is an Aspie and I'm pretty familiar with the condition. Is he not able to work at all?


My son is mentally delayed. Not a lot, but he can not manage his own money. He couldn't make change if his life depended on it. A slow thinker & slow to react in certain situations. He receives SSI, but also has a job milking cows on a local dairy. You just gotta find the job that fits them. It took us a long time, but this job is perfect for him.


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## grandma12703 (Jan 13, 2011)

JLMissouri said:


> I think it is very doable in the right situation even with a family. If you want to live like a regular american than no its not. I have lived on much less than that in the past and I didn't suffer. I didn't have a nice car or TV and didn't eat out often. I still don't have TV and don't eat out often.


 
We get good tv with an antenna which actually surprised me when we first moved here. No monthly bill.


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## grandma12703 (Jan 13, 2011)

emdeengee said:


> As others have pointed out you are missing out a few important items such as property tax and you do not mention co-pays for your medical or prescriptions or repair, maintenance and replacement costs and nothing about retirement savings. But my comment is about the 5% for emergency. On a $1000 income that is $50 a month which is inadequate to meet any real emergency particularly one that is long term.
> 
> We have no debt and are very frugal in our lifestyle. We are as self sufficient as we are able to be and our goal is independence. Independent means the ability to fund yourself if/when faced with unemployment, disability, medical and retirement. $1000 a month keeps you afloat for today but not for the future.
> 
> I also have a real issue with those who earn so little that they pay no income tax. I believe in a flat tax for everyone no matter how little or how much you earn. The tax laws as they exist now allow those who pay no tax to benefit off the work of others. Even if you do not legally have to pay tax you should be contributing voluntarily to the running and protection of your country. Five or ten percent on $1000 would be $50 or $100 a month.


 
I just gave examples not absolutes but although we don't "have" to live on $1,000.00 a month the question was "could" you live on $1,000.00 and I still think it could be done by myself or any of my family members because we enjoy a frugal being. It keeps things interesting. We almost compete at who can get by on less and still have more, so to speak.

Our taxes are around $300.00 a year on our property. I know that depends on where you are located. A lot of folks would think being able to save $50.00 a month would be a good start. 

I have seen many high deductible insurances that still have the $35.00 doctor visit co pay and in my calculations you would have that $35.00 each month. 

As far as repairs? I have never paid anyone to repair anything, that is why I have to admit my DH makes life much easier. Parts, etc. sometimes would have to come out of savings. If you needed it barter with something. 

I have always paid income taxes so I don't know much about EIC or child tax credits as my children were pretty much grown...I think we got a child tax credit on our youngest 1 year. 

BTW I am with you on the flat tax. It would save a lot of headache and prevent a lot of tax cheating.

Remember, could you not do you?


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## Sawmill Jim (Dec 5, 2008)

Should the dollar crash what are some going to do :shrug:

Well for us it is cabbage and cornbread for supper and if the electric was out we would just move down stairs :icecream:

Most debt we ever had was things that made us a living now i'm parting with all the equipement . I didn't retire i just quit :whistlin:


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## janetn (Apr 26, 2012)

Here is my budget for a minimalist lifestyle
Food $220 - have 5 chickens thats all the livestock I can justify - I sell enough eggs now to pay for the feed. Other protien hunt or trap =$5 bullets or trap repair
Property taxes 863 year = $71 mnth
Car and house ins $1000 yr = $83 month - this is plpd on a paid for car
Health ins = $40 - 4% of income on Obama care. Right now at my job I pay $90 a month
Elec $60
Heat $5 Chain saw gas and maintence
Gas $40
Phone $5 - prepaid tracphone
Savings $25

total = 550 a month

Now I havent added in Rx meds - which for me is $16 a month, nor maintence and replacement cost on a car $25 for me at present [ My present car was bought three years ago at $1000, we put less than $200 into it when we bought it and replaced tires and brakes with routine oil changes ect. I can sell the car for $800 today so the net cost as of today for me to own this car is less than $75 mnth] . The house is 20 yrs old so maintence has been pretty low and we do it all ourselves so add in another $50 mnth. This still puts us well under the $1,000 mark


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## where I want to (Oct 28, 2008)

I think you can for one or two people for as long as there are no major health issues. When I first started work, I made it a point to rent an apartment within walking distance to work and shopping. My clothing was bought to be interchangable and simple but well made to last. I never went out to eat, except an occasional takeout as a super treat. 
I had a one bedroom, not too expensive appartment. I did pay for the health insurance through my employer. Had the least expensive utilities I could manage. And had money left over.
The minute I got a car, things changed. Even though I paid next to nothing for the car and fixed it up myself, I had insurance, and maintence and fuel to by. And I went places where I would find things to buy. If you are walking, you simply do not pick up old furniture at the second hand store. At least not more than onec. 
Once you own things, like a vehicle or home, you have things that must be fixed or changed. 
With a house psid off, property taxes at a low rate, ordinary living expenses could be met on a thousand a month. But it would only take one or two unexpected repairs to put a person on a slope of more debt. And once debt starts eating at your income, it's hard to stop it.


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## thequeensblessing (Mar 30, 2003)

How do you who live on $1000 or less per month handle your medical expenses. Our mortgage on our farm is about 900.00 a month, and if DH didn't work for the major company he does, we'd be paying nearly that much out every month for health insurance. No, we couldn't live, responsibly, on $1000 a month. I could survive on it, but I couldn't live on it.


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## seedspreader (Oct 18, 2004)

Family of 6

House paid off. Still have to pay my rent to the government (taxes).

We easily live "FAT" for 2500.00 a month (not counting savings in that... just "living").

Biggest expense is food, tithe, gasoline, electric - in that order. tithe is simply that... not any additional giving. Food is biggest cost because because... well, food is medicine. Lots of fresh fruit and veggies. 

2500 include discretionary spending, internet, phone, cell phones, medical spending, newspaper, trash pickup, auto insurance, etc.

We CAN live on 12,000.00 a year if we need to... and that would include a Samaritan's Ministries type insurance.


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## grandma12703 (Jan 13, 2011)

where I want to said:


> I think you can for one or two people for as long as there are no major health issues. When I first started work, I made it a point to rent an apartment within walking distance to work and shopping. My clothing was bought to be interchangable and simple but well made to last. I never went out to eat, except an occasional takeout as a super treat.
> I had a one bedroom, not too expensive appartment. I did pay for the health insurance through my employer. Had the least expensive utilities I could manage. And had money left over.
> The minute I got a car, things changed. Even though I paid next to nothing for the car and fixed it up myself, I had insurance, and maintence and fuel to by. And I went places where I would find things to buy. If you are walking, you simply do not pick up old furniture at the second hand store. At least not more than onec.
> Once you own things, like a vehicle or home, you have things that must be fixed or changed.
> With a house psid off, property taxes at a low rate, ordinary living expenses could be met on a thousand a month. But it would only take one or two unexpected repairs to put a person on a slope of more debt. And once debt starts eating at your income, it's hard to stop it.


I am not sure if I am reading this as you intend so you can let me know if I am off base but I do agree with you and it is part of the reason some folks can't imagine living off $1,000.00 a month. The more we have the more we want. I am not bashing at all because if you work for it you should be able to have whatever lifestyle you want. There are folks that could not and would not function without a television, cell phone (smartphone), internet, I pad, nail technician, hair dresser, name brand clothing (at best no second hand or clearance clothing), and much more. 

Responsibly living is an opinion. Basically to me responsible is your necessities: food, water, clothing, housing. Those things first and then add what you can. I listen to stories my gf (92) tells and although he is very well off now he wasn't when he was a child. He had 12 brothers and sisters and the stories are awesome. People lived on very little but they survived. He is the third from the youngest. All have passed away except the last three but all lived to at least 95.


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## seedspreader (Oct 18, 2004)

thequeensblessing said:


> How do you who live on $1000 or less per month handle your medical expenses. Our mortgage on our farm is about 900.00 a month, and if DH didn't work for the major company he does, we'd be paying nearly that much out every month for health insurance. No, we couldn't live, responsibly, on $1000 a month. I could survive on it, but I couldn't live on it.


http://www.samaritanministries.org/

Couples: 220.00 month.

I know many families who use this and it works amazingly well... of course it's not standard insurance and it takes activity on YOUR part to negotiate the lowest price for your health care.


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## Danaus29 (Sep 12, 2005)

suitcase_sally said:


> That's over $20,000/yr. I think I would just bank the $20,000 and in 10 years you would have $200,000 + interest.


One ruptured appendix or a complex fracture requiring surgery and all that "savings" would be wiped out. Been through enough emergencies where I never want to be without health ins. My ruptured ovarian cyst would have cost us close to $20,000. That was the same year I broke my foot.
Our health ins costs us over $500 a month, if we had to pay the employers portion it would more than double.


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## Sawmill Jim (Dec 5, 2008)

Post #91 i wasen't the question of do you make a $1,000 a mounth but can you live on a thousand a mounth . :shrug: I think most are missing that part .

I can load and haul serval thousand in scrap metal on a moments notice but why should i .I have a 37' trailer that will bring a $1,000 more than i paid for it .Never spend your seed money :icecream:

It's not what you make a lot of times it's what you spend . If you consume it it is gone . We have enough from last years garden for another year but we'll still plant a bigger one this year :bow:


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## thequeensblessing (Mar 30, 2003)

grandma12703 said:


> Well house insurance is an issue if you choose to carry it. If you don't mind fixing things yourself sometimes you can get a really reasonable home owners insurance excluding the roof. Sounds crazy but for some of us we built it we will fix it again if need be. We keep several medications, Vit. B complex among other things stocked up and I guess that is how you would do it. Learn how to care for your animals yourself if money is extremely tight. JMO


House insurance isn't for "repairs" and "fixing things". It's for major fire damage or loss. If you only have 1000 a month, how are you going to rebuild your home if it burns down?
So far as learning to care for your own animals, there are many things you CAN do, but there are other things you can't, or shouldn't, do. I couldn't diagnose Jonnes in my own sheep herd, or TB in my cattle if I had to. I can't do my own c-sections, and I can't vaccinate my own animals against rabies here in Ohio. "Natural" wormers and such only go so far. Sometimes losing animals you might be able to save with a vet visit is more expensive in the long run than calling a vet would be.


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## badlander (Jun 7, 2009)

I've done it before but doubt if I could do it again with the current economy. I can pull my belt in pretty good when I have to but these days trying to do it on 1000 with the economy the way it is I'd be pulling it in so tight my belly button would be saying hi to my backbone.

I shun trendy stuff. No barbers/hairstylists. We cut our own hair. We eat healthy. A treat for us is homemade cookies or a half gallon of ice cream from the store. I try to keep junk foods down to 0 around the house. I stock up on household necessities when they are on sale and try to keep a 6-12 month supply of canned goods and such on hand but rising food costs, health care costs and getting older so we can't avoid those health care costs makes 1000 $ a little unreal for us. 

When my mother was dying and I was taking care of her full time 15 years ago, we got by on 850 dollars a month. 250 of that went to her medications and doctors. We didn't ask for any aid. When she passed somebody gasped and asked me how we did it and another person replied, she bought only what she needed, she bought it on sale and she bought their clothes at Good Will. The lady was correct. It is possible, but not easy.


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## grandma12703 (Jan 13, 2011)

thequeensblessing said:


> House insurance isn't for "repairs" and "fixing things". It's for major fire damage or loss. If you only have 1000 a month, how are you going to rebuild your home if it burns down?
> So far as learning to care for your own animals, there are many things you CAN do, but there are other things you can't, or shouldn't, do. I couldn't diagnose Jonnes in my own sheep herd, or TB in my cattle if I had to. I can't do my own c-sections, and I can't vaccinate my own animals against rabies here in Ohio. "Natural" wormers and such only go so far. Sometimes losing animals you might be able to save with a vet visit is more expensive in the long run than calling a vet would be.


 
Not going to argue with you because I agree with you if you have the money to do it but if you have to live on $1,000.00 a month it is a choice you may have to make. 

Just an example: Paying $800.00 a year for homeowners insurance with no roof coverage. Payed for 20 years give or take a little difference in cost and never needed any of it ($16,000.00). The insurance company did well.

Vet care? I don't know how I feel about that. I just haven't lost many animals so I don't worry about using a vet.(not trying to sound arogant because I know it can happen and I know we have been very fortunate) When the kids had show stock I called the ag teacher if we needed medical for the animals and they called the vet and got what we needed. We never took one of them to town for a vet visit. Valbazen, safeguard and such wormers do fine for our animals. 

Again, could you live on $1,000.00 NOT would you or do you?


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## thequeensblessing (Mar 30, 2003)

grandma12703 said:


> Not going to argue with you because I agree with you if you have the money to do it but if you have to live on $1,000.00 a month it is a choice you may have to make.
> 
> Just an example: Paying $800.00 a year for homeowners insurance with no roof coverage. Payed for 20 years give or take a little difference in cost and never needed any of it ($16,000.00). The insurance company did well.
> 
> ...


But see, to me, what you are asking then, is could I "survive" on $1000.00 a month. The answer would be yes, for a while. Could I "live" on it? No way. Not responsibly anyway.


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## pancho (Oct 23, 2006)

If that is all you had what other choice would you have?


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## Evons hubby (Oct 3, 2005)

Yeppers, a person can indeed live on an income of 1000 bucks a month. I know this cos for a few years I actually made a little more than that and did just fine. I did get a little spoiled though with the extra cash I had during that time period.  

Basic tricks for living on a modest income.... 

Always save back part of your earnings for rainy days, and never ever spend any money while its raining. 

Never use credit to buy "stuff".... if you cant afford whatever it is you think you need today... how are you possibly going to afford it, plus the interest, on it tomorrow? (modest land payments are exempt from this rule because the land is what supplies your other "needs")

Learn to live with out all the unnecessary "stuff". This will relieve you of many of your current burdens. 

Never give your money to a landlord. Paying rent is probably the most common mistake people make with their finances. 

Learn to live on 500 per month or less...(millions do, all over our great nation), that way when you start living on 1000 per month you will be "living large".


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## Haven (Aug 16, 2010)

I see people living on less than 1 k per month. What about health insurance or potential medical bills? I guess my point is, why would you want to live on so little?


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## Guest (Jan 15, 2013)

So, if you were getting by fine and happy on a thousand bucks a month, you should go out and spend more because??? It follows that if I'm full eating a big mac, then I should be 4 times as full eating 4 of them? Why? Why would anybody want to do that? If I have a couple hundred thousand dollars in the bank for emergencies, I need to blow it?


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## TRAILRIDER (Apr 16, 2007)

If I didn't still have a mortgage we'd be able to live on 600.00 (would be including gasoline for commuting to work and feed for the animals). The mortgage payment is 650.00 a month. That's exactly why paying off my mortgage is the number one priority for me. I figure no matter what happens in life I can get by if I have my farm paid for. I live on practically nothing and could go off grid if need be.


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## "SPIKE" (Dec 7, 2011)

Yes, I can.

SPIKE


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## Sawmill Jim (Dec 5, 2008)

zong said:


> So, if you were getting by fine and happy on a thousand bucks a month, you should go out and spend more because??? It follows that if I'm full eating a big mac, then I should be 4 times as full eating 4 of them? Why? Why would anybody want to do that? If I have a couple hundred thousand dollars in the bank for emergencies, I need to blow it?


I know a guy near 60 owns nothing and works every day i do mean nothing . I know folks you could give them a ton of money ,block the road to their house every way there is and they would be broke in three days . :bow: How can you live 60 years and have nothing .I got a cutting torch i bought 40 years ago still good as new . :whistlin:


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## thequeensblessing (Mar 30, 2003)

zong said:


> So, if you were getting by fine and happy on a thousand bucks a month, you should go out and spend more because??? It follows that if I'm full eating a big mac, then I should be 4 times as full eating 4 of them? Why? Why would anybody want to do that? If I have a couple hundred thousand dollars in the bank for emergencies, I need to blow it?


I haven't seen anyone say that. I have seen people, myself included, ask about things like health insurance, car insurance, and home insurance, etc. So far it seems that most, not all, but most, of the folks living off $1000.00 a month or less, consider those things to be luxuries. I don't. I consider them to be necessities.


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## Nancy (May 14, 2002)

We have Samaritan's Ministries medical sharing "insurance" and for just DH and I it is $300.oo a month. They are a wonderful alternative to insurance. No high deductible, no 80/20. We have a mortgage so we could not live on $1000. per month but come spring we may get it paid off so we'll see then.


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## Guest (Jan 15, 2013)

thequeensblessing said:


> I haven't seen anyone say that. I have seen people, myself included, ask about things like health insurance, car insurance, and home insurance, etc. So far it seems that most, not all, but most, of the folks living off $1000.00 a month or less, consider those things to be luxuries. I don't. I consider them to be necessities.


Does the post directly above mine that you quote not say "Why would you want to live on so little?" ? My point would be, if that's how much it takes to be happy, why would you need or want to spend more?


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## TRAILRIDER (Apr 16, 2007)

I saw an article on yahoo yesterday about the social security tax going back to 6.2 from 4.2 and how that would effect the consumers. 
Personally it won't make much of a difference to me, I make so little to start with!

Anyway the couple they were interviewing said 2% more coming out of the woman's pay check will add up to 250.00 a month. If my math is correct if 2% = 250.00 a month then she must bring home 12,500.00 a month. And they were saying she was going to have to start buying generic brand diapers. 

Now I understand alot of people spend everything they make and any cut would hurt. But golly! If I made 12500.00 a month my mortgage would have been paid off in less than a year! Alot of people cannot afford anything but cloth diapers to start with. And this couple lived in Utah, not NYC or LA etc.


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## TRAILRIDER (Apr 16, 2007)

Actually thequeen'sblessing, the 600.00 would cover all three, auto, homeowners and health ins. But the health ins is provided by my employer (I do pay some part.) I also consider those things to be essential. But then KY is relatively inexpensive compared to other areas. And as a 50 yr old woman my auto insurance is not much (full ins on one vehicle, liability on another is 60.00 a month.)


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## thequeensblessing (Mar 30, 2003)

TRAILRIDER said:


> Actually thequeen'sblessing, the 600.00 would cover all three, auto, homeowners and health ins. But the health ins is provided by my employer (I do pay some part.) I also consider those things to be essential. But then KY is relatively inexpensive compared to other areas. And as a 50 yr old woman my auto insurance is not much (full ins on one vehicle, liability on another is 60.00 a month.)


Ok, I'm confused here...

You're going to work a job that only pays $1000.00 a month, yet it will provide you with health insurance? We also pay for auto, health and home insurance and it costs us less than $600 a month for the insurance itself, not counting copays and deductibles. However, my hubby works for a major corporation as a foreman and gets very good health insurance. If he only worked sufficient hours to make $1000 a month, his insurance would go bye-bye too.


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## Terri (May 10, 2002)

Haven said:


> What about health insurance or potential medical bills? I guess my point is, why would you want to live on so little?


*WANT* to live on so little? Uh, no, not *want*. We had what we had.

As for health insurance, I very FIRMLY told myself that I would not indulge in any risky behavior and I would NOT break any bones. 

I was 20 and sometimes 20 year olds can be reckless: I decided that I could not afford it. I set aside reckless behavior. And, because I was young, I did not have any heart problems and such so I got away with it.


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## Guest (Jan 15, 2013)

There are 2 separate conversations here. One is about living on a thousand dollars a month. The other is about making an income of a thousand dollars a month. 
My opinions are all about whether or not you can live off a thousand dollars a month. I have no interest in anyone's income, nor do I see it relevant to the conversation I'm in. I can go to the store with a hundred bucks and spend $2 and get what I need. I don't think the rest is relevant.


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## Terri (May 10, 2002)

thequeensblessing said:


> If he only worked sufficient hours to make $1000 a month, his insurance would go bye-bye too.


A few decades ago, major corporations offered insurance to part time employees as well as full time ones, and the employees did not have to pay much for their share.

That was before the economy went south, and before medical costs were so high. It sounds like there are some companies who still do.


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## notbutanapron (Jun 30, 2011)

Woo. I got husband to agree once we move we're gonna try to live off a thousand a month for three months and see how we go. We can't seem to figure it out how to do it and include petrol [I think it translates to about six dollars a gallon here] so we're going to see about doing it not including petrol. Three months once we move of complete frugality other than petrol [cause like, otherwise we can't make the money to begin with LOL].

Healthcare here is a non-issue. I pay for private which I need with my medical history but that's just me and I'm only a hundred a month for that. There's the '37 Chevy [my baby], but I was hoping to pay that off with the money we save in rent before we start the experiment.

This has made me see if I can do it! Sorta kinda. Considering money value exchange I'd say it still technically counts. The ex-rate is the same now but it buys less here, so I think if I make it under 1300 it should still count!


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## Terri (May 10, 2002)

Zong, I once lived on very little. But, I will now either pay for medical care or for insurance, so now I cannot. Either one now costs too much!

I did sit down with my oldest and we worked through some budgets, so *SHE* now knows how! There is no safety in this word, and it is a very good thing to know!

An inexpensive apartment, shared. Cooking for yourself. Walking even if you have access to a car to save on gas and repairs. Looking for work within walking distance. Inexpensive clothes. That was how we did it, once apon a time.


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## sherry in Maine (Nov 22, 2007)

I sat down and figured it out.
Yes, I could do it. Most months. 
I would save a certain amount each month for all of the 'biggies' that come due every year, and after that stuff I listed in above post, I'd still have some, and if careful, I'd do ok.

Sometimes, there are emergencies.


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## TRAILRIDER (Apr 16, 2007)

Haven said:


> I see people living on less than 1 k per month. What about health insurance or potential medical bills? I guess my point is, why would you want to live on so little?


I wouldn't want to.

But that's how it is sometimes. I'd rather live on 1000.00 a month than be living in a city apartment and working my butt of to be unhappy.


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## Guest (Jan 15, 2013)

Terri said:


> Zong, I once lived on very little. But, I will now either pay for medical care or for insurance, so now I cannot. Either one now costs too much!
> 
> I did sit down with my oldest and we worked through some budgets, so *SHE* now knows how! There is no safety in this word, and it is a very good thing to know!
> 
> An inexpensive apartment, shared. Cooking for yourself. Walking even if you have access to a car to save on gas and repairs. Looking for work within walking distance. Inexpensive clothes. That was how we did it, once apon a time.


Hi Terri. You know a good bit, from other subforums, about my experiences with the medical industry. And you know that I am completely truthful when I tell you I'd rather pack my gut with dog manure than to trust my life to a hospital. So, to heck with health care insurance.


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## emdeengee (Apr 20, 2010)

Where you live has a lot to do with how much you can live off of. There are certain expenses for your area that just won't change no matter how frugal you are. People starting out will not have their home paid for so this is something that has to be considered. When we were young we LIVED on less than $500 a month but that did not include the mortgage and property taxes which were another $500 a month. Once you are older and there is no mortage or education to consider you may be able to live on $1000 but even that would be difficult if there are medical issues.

The question I would ask - rather than setting a dollar value since $1000 in New York is very different from $1000 in a small town just about anywhere - is can you live on 75% of what you are living on now? Figuring out how to do that would be a real feat for most people. 25% does not seem like a big deal until you start figuring out the dollar value of everything that you need to pay. If you spend $4000 a month can you live on $3000 and cover everything that you need for today and tomorrow? If you spend $2000 can you live on $1500? 

We adopted the "financial percentage pie" to figure out the best distribution of our net income and by sticking to it we have been very successful at covering all aspects of day to day life including daycare, medical & dental, emergency savings, retirement funding, educational savings, repair, replacement and maintenance funding.

35% for housing, 15% for transportation, 25% for life (everything else) and 25% for savings (long and short term).


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## quietintheland (Jan 10, 2013)

I'm happy to see my question has spurred some discussion. I've enjoyed reading through the posts and learning from each of you.

A few years ago I had a conversation with another homesteader who encouraged me to find my "ideal". For some people, their ideal is going to be an urban homestead in a big city, for others, it will be choosing to live in a cabin 80 miles from the nearest town, and for most of us on the forum, I suspect it will be something in between. Each has it's advantages and disadvantages, and the costs that are necessary to maintain such a life will vary greatly on one's location and desires. 

For our family, we can scrape by on $1600/month. It requires a lot of careful planning, especially since we are about 10 miles out from the nearest town. If we paid off our mortgage (which we at present time are unable to do), we could go as low as $1200/month, but not any lower. That's partly due the costs associated with my job duties which require me to drive and maintain a second phone line. But, as others have posted, Murphy visit's us to. You just can't ignore the well pump when it goes bad. Nor can you ignore the $600 bill to replace it. That's why I believe it's important to save for a "rainy day". I just wish the rainy days didn't turn into 30 days of thunderstorms.

Then there's the aspect that on the $1600/month, very little is budgeted for "routine" maintenance and capital improvements. Our current property Needs to have 3 acres fenced in for small livestock. But we've forgone the fencing (and the livestock) as realtors told us that in our area, it won't increase the value of our property. And since we are hoping to move in the not so distant future, we'd rather save that money toward that endeavor.

Finally, I second the recommendations for healthcare sharing ministries like Samaritans Purse and Medishare. I realize that it may not be the right option for everyone, but for many it can save quite a bit of money. 

For those of you without insurance budgeted into your monthly living expenses, how are you planning on "complying" with the Obamacare mandate for health insurance when it goes into effect?

Thanks again for a lively interaction.

QuietInTheLand


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## emdeengee (Apr 20, 2010)

zong said:


> There are 2 separate conversations here. One is about living on a thousand dollars a month. The other is about making an income of a thousand dollars a month.
> My opinions are all about whether or not you can live off a thousand dollars a month. I have no interest in anyone's income, nor do I see it relevant to the conversation I'm in. I can go to the store with a hundred bucks and spend $2 and get what I need. I don't think the rest is relevant.


For me the question is easy to answer. Absolutely not. I cannot live on $1000 a month. But then again my circumstances are different from anyone elses as are yours. I can and do live very frugally however.


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## Seeria (Jul 21, 2006)

There was a time when I supported myself and two kids with $800 a month. I'm not on land yet, still looking for the right place, right price. Kids are teens now and we could squeek by on $1200 a month BUT heaven forbid anything major break, we'd be up the creek... 
This last year we've climbed to nearly $700 a month in grocery/household expenses so I sat down to figure out what the heck was going on. Paper. Diapers (teen autistic). Pads. Tissues. TP. Wet wipes. Heck, tissues alone are $40 a month. !!! 
Time to crack down and go back to mini living. Just no reason for that much expense. 
Luck!


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## Cabin Fever (May 10, 2002)

Shoot, we couldn't live on $1000/mo, our income tax is more than that! :shrug:


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## Melissa (Apr 15, 2002)

If you are claim Married Filing a Joint Return and take the exemption for both spouses, a couple with no children can earn $18500 and not pay any federal taxes. So if you actually did try to earn only $1000 a month, there would be no tax to pay. You would really have to make a little more than $1000 a month to bring home that amount because you would still have to pay into SS and Medicare.


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## Danaus29 (Sep 12, 2005)

Melissa said:


> If you are claim Married Filing a Joint Return and take the exemption for both spouses, a couple with no children can earn $18500 and not pay any federal taxes. So if you actually did try to earn only $1000 a month, there would be no tax to pay. You would really have to make a little more than $1000 a month to bring home that amount because you would still have to pay into SS and Medicare.


You still pay federal income taxes. In some cases you pay state and local income taxes. Add on the school tax in an increasing number of areas. You can file and hope the federal IRS doesn't close down the check printing facility before you get your refund check which would be all of your federal income tax BUT they are still taken from you at the beginning.

You have to be very careful not to fall into the trap my MIL fell into one year. She didn't earn enough money to have to file so she wasn't going to. Nearly missed out on a couple grand in taxes which she had coming back to her.

Just had a thought, there are 4 of us in this house. Would that be $4,000 a month? If so then yes, we could live on that. But $1,000 for the 4 of us, not here, not with this debt.


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## Melissa (Apr 15, 2002)

If you knew for sure that your income would be low enough that you would not owe any federal income tax you can have your withholding adjusted so that you have none taken out of your check to begin with. On the W-4 there is actually an option to file EXEMPT and have $0 withholding. Of course this is only federal taxes, I am not well-versed in every state's tax system, but if you fall in these lower income amounts you most likely would not pay much in state taxes either. 

If you have tax withheld in any amount, it is important to file so that you will receive any refund due to you.


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## K.B. (Sep 7, 2012)

vanet said:


> So the moral is yes you can live very comfortably on less than $1000 a month *IF* you get yourself set up for it first. We pinched pennies for years and did every project like it needed to last forever to get to this point. At this point we dont have to live on less than $1000 a year but we do by choice.


sounds like a great set-up! do you have a blog/site somewhere that has some of your story in getting to where you are at today?

Once we get past the house construction stage, I'd like to see us get our expenses down to ~2K/month with the various insurance premiums included. Won't happen til we stop building, though.


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## Danaus29 (Sep 12, 2005)

Did not know you could file an exempt W-4. But pretty sure that in Ohio you cannot claim 0 liability for income tax and no way in the world will the cities allow you to get out of paying city taxes.


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## thesedays (Feb 25, 2011)

Fae said:


> I sure would like some ideas because my sister will be retiring soon and that is about what she will have. She also has a 26 year old son with asbergers who is dependant on her.


If your nephew's Asperger's is severe enough that he can't live independently, he should be able to get SSI. Is he?


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## Melissa (Apr 15, 2002)

Danaus29 said:


> Did not know you could file an exempt W-4. But pretty sure that in Ohio you cannot claim 0 liability for income tax and no way in the world will the cities allow you to get out of paying city taxes.


In Ohio you can only take the number of exemptions which you will actually claim which is slightly different than federal taxes. This year Ohio is again allowing for an amount of $10,000 in taxable income to be completely tax exempt. So in our situation of a couple filing jointly with no dependents, they could use their $1700 per person exemption along with the $10,000 exemption and earn $13400 and pay no state tax either. 

Most city and school taxes do not allow for any expemtions, they are just taken straight out of your income. However I think you could still earn the amount that would allow for no federal tax to be paid and have your $1000 a month to live on- as the thread is describing here. At these income levels taxes aren't a huge problem, at least not yet!


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## Haven (Aug 16, 2010)

Unfortunately, when people live on 1k per month or less, they would have nothing left for insurance or savings. When an accident happens and they end up with 300k in medical bills, society ends up paying for it.


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## BobbyB (Apr 6, 2009)

Presently, short answer, no way.


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## Guest (Jan 16, 2013)

If somebody made $2500 per month, and lived on $1,000 a month, how would they have nothing left over? As opposed, say, to someone who made $2500 a month and lived on $2500 a month.


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## Haven (Aug 16, 2010)

I thought the OP meant "bringing home 1k _and_ living off that", not "brining 2.5k and living off 1k"?????


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## Danaus29 (Sep 12, 2005)

Melissa, isn't it still taken out? Yes you get it back but you still have to pay it up front. 
Columbus city tax is more than Ohio state tax. Pretty big chunk on $10,000 for a lot of nothing. (I don't live in the city!)


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## Guest (Jan 16, 2013)

I don't know, I just took it at face value, "Could you live on $1,000/month" 
OK, an income of $1,000 a month. home paid for, 360k in the bank, still doable. you don't need to earn money specifically for saving when you got savings. Without any savings, still doable. I expect I was over 40 before I ever got ahead at all. So, I guess savings wasn't nearly as important as eating and all that. Heck, I paid the late penalty on my electric bill every month for 22 years.


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## Sawmill Jim (Dec 5, 2008)

Haven said:


> Unfortunately, when people live on 1k per month or less, they would have nothing left for insurance or savings. When an accident happens and they end up with 300k in medical bills, society ends up paying for it.


Living on a$1,000 don't mean they don't have more money or make more .:shrug:

Society pays tons of money to our enemies and farmers to not grow crops so what is $300,000 more :icecream:


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## Guest (Jan 16, 2013)

You know, if you're in a bad enough accident, or if you're sick enough, there's really nothing at all wrong with dying. After all, everybody's going to do it. AND, they're not going to send anybody back for not doing it right, either. Live like you don't have any insurance and be real careful. Everybody I knew that died, it was more of a release from suffering than anything else.


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## claytonpiano (Feb 3, 2005)

REDDOGTWO said:


> It would be impossible to do considering health insurance runs over $1700 a month.


I feel your pain. Our insurance runs $1500 per month. We are in our sixties and hoping that medicare will still be around when we retire. There is no way we could pay this insurance bill if DH was not working. We have shopped for cheaper insurance, but when DH has had cancer and I have had a colon tumor....insurance companies just won't work with you. I can't blame them. We are a risk, but health insurance is a must have for us.


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## Melissa (Apr 15, 2002)

Danaus29 said:


> Melissa, isn't it still taken out? Yes you get it back but you still have to pay it up front.
> Columbus city tax is more than Ohio state tax. Pretty big chunk on $10,000 for a lot of nothing. (I don't live in the city!)


In our area we don't pay any city taxes or school taxes. I did look up the actual city of Columbus and it is 2.5%. The Ohio withholding charts are pretty accurate, so if you claim the exact number of dependents, you most likely would not owe or have to pay much. Ours is usually within a few dollars one way or the other. 

My point is that if you are earning in the under $18K range, federal/state/city taxes are not going to be much of an issue for the most part.


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## Annsni (Oct 27, 2006)

Our property taxes alone are more than $1000 a month.


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## Jokarva (Jan 17, 2010)

zong said:


> You know, if you're in a bad enough accident,* or if you're sick enough, there's really nothing at all wrong with dying.* After all, everybody's going to do it. AND, they're not going to send anybody back for not doing it right, either. Live like you don't have any insurance and be real careful. Everybody I knew that died, it was more of a release from suffering than anything else.



There are plenty of illnesses that won't kill you, just make you wish you were dead. Or impact your life (blindness, benign brain tumor that causes you to lose abilities, ms, als, etc, etc....) to the point it doesn't resemble anything you recognize as _your life._ We aren't all lucky enough to drop dead suddenly.....insurance isn't an answer to everything, but it sure comes in handy sometimes.

That said, we could not live on $1000/month and maintain any (what we'd consider) reasonable standard of living. But we could survive on it if we had no choice....as could most of us I think.


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## arnie (Apr 26, 2012)

with the land payed for no truck payment health insurance from the union I retired from huge gardens ,milk cow,beef,pig,chickens,rabbits ,i'm a amature chef,i heat with coal .free flowing spring water,most of my extra cash.gos for taxes and the dish satilite internet and gasoline .auto insurance on 3 trucks .with a lower income I would not have to pay income tax ,I could park 2 trucks mininmise the dish cut out the extras on the phone and go back to dialup internet.prably get more of my projects completed at home. I could do 1000 a month no sweat .But this took years of hard work prepping and paying off to reach this point .I heard a old trailor for rent in a cort today at 400 a month no heat water included .and I don't think health insurance can be had for less .off the homestead it would be very hard .


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## quietintheland (Jan 10, 2013)

Haven said:


> I thought the OP meant "bringing home 1k _and_ living off that", not "brining 2.5k and living off 1k"?????


Hi Haven,

I didn't really specify. It could be either way. I was thinking more along the lines of creating a $1000 budget and living off that regardless of what one makes. It would be great if you made $2000 a month and were able to sock away $1000 for an emergency. 

But it seems from this thread that there are many among us who don't earn more than $1000. For some, that's a hardship due to circumstances beyond their control. For others, it appears to be a choice. 

I'd still like to know what others who don't have insurance are going to do when required to have insurance under Obamacare. Pay the fine, get private insurance, go on government sponsored insurance, or something else? I don't see how traditional insurance is affordable for many average wage earners, never mind those only making $1000/month.

Thanks for letting me clarify my OP. 

QuietInTheLand


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## Guest (Jan 16, 2013)

Quietintheland, as to what I'll do when required to have Obamacare, for the last 46 years the government has taken what they want from me. I expect they'll continue to do so. They may even take my home away from me, they're the government and I'm not. They can take money away from me, but they cannot force me to use their product. They cannot force me to use the insurance they force me to pay for. They cannot force me to collect the SS they took away from me. So, if they want more, they'll just take it. I still won't trust the medical profession period. never. NEVER.


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## Sawmill Jim (Dec 5, 2008)

Don't think po folks will have to pay for O Care :shrug:


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## Fae (Mar 9, 2005)

bluemoonluck, my nephew has some kind of personality disorder to go along with the aspergers. He does not do well around people and gets picked on a lot. When he was younger and in school it was children but, he has tried to go to school for a couple of trades and has had a couple of low paying jobs but the adults pick on him now. He has a lot of problems. He is trying to get on social security or something but so far no luck. It really makes it hard on my sister. His own siblings don't really have much to do with him.


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## Mulegirl (Oct 6, 2010)

_If_ we were debt free--no mortgage, car payments, student/personal loans--and were finished building our infrastructure (we're still building outbuildings and fences), we might be able to do it, though it would be a squeeze. Our property taxes and home/auto/health insurance would eat a bit over half that (though if we were down to that income, the health insurance number would probably change, as it would mean that neither of us were working full time at our present jobs). There would be a lot more squirrel and rabbit in the cats' and dog's diet, and the chickens would have to free-range most of the time to cut back on feed requirements. TV is already free for us, but our internet (currently necessary for our jobs, which are online) would probably have to go, and we might have to drop a phone. We can raise most of our food with the exception of the usual dry goods--sugar, flour, salt, coffee, certain spices--so we'd still eat well, at least! This would not be possible with the mortgage and debt we have right now, though. At least the mortgage is something we're paying to my mom, so the money for interest is going back into the family . . .


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## Ravenlost (Jul 20, 2004)

I did it for years while raising two children. Had rent, car payment, etc. to pay. Kept my grocery bill low by using coupons, growing a garden, etc. Kept the thermostat low (we did go one February without heat one time though), didn't do much running around to keep the gasoline cost down, no cable TV, etc. 

My mom lives WAY below that amount, by choice, not necessity. Her total grocery bill averages about $30 a month. She grows most of her food, eats very little meat, no sweets, drinks water and juice she canned. Her phone, water, power, etc. is always the minimum rate. She only goes to town when she needs to get groceries or meds. Her heating costs are low because she keeps the wood cookstove burning in the winter and keeps most of her house closed off and unheated.


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## doing it in NM (Feb 5, 2007)

I think the ? should be would we want to instead of could we. Today the answer would be yes I could live and have enough food and cloths for my wife and myself to do it. I am lucky as where I live my taxes for property and house are about $60. per year. I get many exemptions on my property taxes. If I ever sale and buy something else they will really go up. For both car and truck it's about $550 per year. I have a garden, raise chickens, pigs and a calf a year. so yes I can, but don't want to now. I'm in my mid 50s and healthy. I have my own business and use money to lately, put a new roof on, building a 12' X 16' root celler. I have bought but not installed a 3,000 gal water tank for rain storage. I am trying to get things ready for when I am not working and have to live on a fixed income, my wife and myself SS, if we still have it in 10 years? I could do it easy right now, but I would have to sit home always as no money for gas and it would be hard to replace a car. 

I think if we just live within our means, no matter our income we would be so much happier, than trying to keep up with the Jones.


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## Bob Huntress (Dec 17, 2012)

Ravenlost, It would depend on when you lived on $1,000 a month. Just because you lived on $1,000 a month in 1952, isn't the same as doing it now. A thousand dollars a month then was a lot more money.


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## oldmania (Jan 25, 2007)

As I mentioned earlier, though we are debt free, taxes and various insurance would not allow us to live on $1,000 per month. Then I got to thinking. If necessary, most of us could reduce living expenses. But, if you have worked hard all your life, and saved for retirement and a rainy day, why not get up off some of that money. You can't take it with you. You never see a hearse towing a U-haul.


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## notbutanapron (Jun 30, 2011)

^ There is this piece of me now that wants to put in my will 'hearse must tow a U-haul'. I already have every intention of being fifteen minutes late to my own funeral.


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## thestartupman (Jul 25, 2010)

I worked with a man once, who's property taxes were $1166 *PER MONTH*. I thought mine were bad enough at $320 per month. Now they are less than that per year. So it is getting a little easier to see living on $1000 per month. I have set up a spreadsheet with categories for all our different expenditures so I can track them. It really helps to see how much is spent on everything. Especially vehicle, and house maintance. I have done this off and on for a year now, and this year I will be tracking the entire year. Right now my goal is to get down too $1500 per month including all expenses. Everything from animal feed to long term repair and replacement cost. The biggest problems I have had getting to that goal is the fact that we just moved to the farm almost a year ago, and have had a lot of cost to get things set up. Fixing fences, building new fences, buying animals, feed for animals, updating the house. We just made our last large animal purchase, but still have some smaller animals that I plan to add to the place. Once this is bought, and we actually get to butcher some animals, it will reduce our cost. I work all the time at thinking of ways to reduce the cost of feeding animals. I really think that I might be able to get down too my $1500 dollar level, and live comfortably, and could get down too $1000, but not live very comfortably.


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## Cabin Fever (May 10, 2002)

zong said:


> If somebody made $2500 per month, and lived on $1,000 a month, how would they have nothing left over? As opposed, say, to someone who made $2500 a month and lived on $2500 a month.


 It is a great philosphy that we always recommend to people. That is, "Live well below your means."


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## jassytoo (May 14, 2003)

If we were forced to then we would have to make it work. We couldn't do it in this house. We are retired and have no debt but just property taxes, health insurance and car insurance would wipe out close to a $1000.


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## Annsni (Oct 27, 2006)

thestartupman said:


> I worked with a man once, who's property taxes were $1166 *PER MONTH*. I thought mine were bad enough at $320 per month.


Yep, that's about what ours are. I put away $1200 a month to pay the bill in January, March and May.


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## seedspreader (Oct 18, 2004)

I wouldn't live somewhere that had taxes that high. My current taxes are too high already.

Paying to use my own land/house is shameless anyway... but that's a different thread.


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## vanet (Aug 30, 2011)

"Just had to say that SS was NEVER intended to be a person's only income when they retire."

Wendy you are wrong. SS is NOT ment to be a supplemental income. As soon as a retired person begins to make additional income, or has income from an investment his SS is reduced. If it were ment to supplement your other incomes this wouldnt be the case.


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## Annsni (Oct 27, 2006)

seedspreader said:


> I wouldn't live somewhere that had taxes that high. My current taxes are too high already.


I would love to move where taxes are lower but:

* I grew up here and my dad and my in-laws live here.
* We love the area - living right next to the water and can sail for 8 months of the year.
* We have a church here that we love and couldn't leave it that easily (my husband is the pastor).
* I just don't know where I'd want to go! 

So we suck it up and cry when we pay the bill but rejoice the rest of the time because we live in a really great place.


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## Terri (May 10, 2002)

vanet said:


> "Just had to say that SS was NEVER intended to be a person's only income when they retire."
> 
> Wendy you are wrong. SS is NOT ment to be a supplemental income. As soon as a retired person begins to make additional income, or has income from an investment his SS is reduced. If it were ment to supplement your other incomes this wouldnt be the case.


It really was pitched to the American public as a supplement. I remember it well.

When I was a kid, retired folks pensions and savings were gutted by inflation. It was widely reported that elderly people were eating dog food because it was what they could afford, even though they had been prudent and had what *HAD* been a generous pension.

The solution the government figured up was SS. Basically, everybody pays in and everybody gets money out THAT IS ADJUSTED FOR INFLATION! For a while it worked as it was intended, but the government has changed the regulation again and again and again. It no longer works as well as they had intended.


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## vanet (Aug 30, 2011)

K.B. said:


> sounds like a great set-up! do you have a blog/site somewhere that has some of your story in getting to where you are at today?
> 
> Once we get past the house construction stage, I'd like to see us get our expenses down to ~2K/month with the various insurance premiums included. Won't happen til we stop building, though.


 No, I am not much of a writer. We have been thinking of opening up a school of sorts. Having a family or a couple come stay in our guest house for a week or 2 and work with us every day just to see if its for them and how to do it.

I have to say, none of what we do is unique to us, we have just been doing what MEN, Countryside, Backwoods Home have been showing people how to do for years. I guess we were just too naive to realize it couldnt be done. So we did it.


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## Guest (Jan 16, 2013)

Terri said:


> *It really was pitched to the American public as a supplement. I remember it well.*
> 
> When I was a kid, retired folks pensions and savings were gutted by inflation. It was widely reported that elderly people were eating dog food because it was what they could afford, even though they had been prudent and had what *HAD* been a generous pension.
> 
> The solution the government figured up was SS. Basically, everybody pays in and everybody gets money out THAT IS ADJUSTED FOR INFLATION! For a while it worked as it was intended, but the government has changed the regulation again and again and again. It no longer works as well as they had intended.


You were a kid in 1935??


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## Terri (May 10, 2002)

zong said:


> You were a kid in 1935??


 Yoiks! I was not!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I didn't realize SS was that old. I must be remembering when SS was changed in the 60's, LOL!


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## seedspreader (Oct 18, 2004)

Annsni said:


> I would love to move where taxes are lower but:
> 
> * I grew up here and my dad and my in-laws live here.
> * We love the area - living right next to the water and can sail for 8 months of the year.
> ...


Yup, I totally get that. That's why God calls us all to different places.


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## salmonslayer (Jan 4, 2009)

vanet said:


> "Just had to say that SS was NEVER intended to be a person's only income when they retire."
> 
> Wendy you are wrong. SS is NOT ment to be a supplemental income. As soon as a retired person begins to make additional income, or has income from an investment his SS is reduced. If it were ment to supplement your other incomes this wouldnt be the case.


 What are you talking about? There is no offset of SS for working or having investment income and you can be a multi millionaire and draw social security. Social security was indeed meant as a supplement to a regular retirement and when I can draw it in a few years (if its still around) it will just be pin money in addition to the multiple retirements I am already drawing.

I think you are confused with social security disability payments.


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## Clancy (Jan 5, 2013)

No car payment, no house payment, house/car insurance is 100 a month, electric expensive here, at least 100 a month, gasoline to work is biggy, I am a contractor and sometimes have to drive a long way, 250 a month, food 200, prop taxes, 100 a month, critter feed, 100 a month, satellite internet 80, cell phone is 50, and then I am out of money. So probably not unless I don't want to do anything but sit in my driveway and get rid of my animals.


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## willow_girl (Dec 7, 2002)

If I didn't have my cows to feed, I could live like a queen on $1,000 a month.


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## TRAILRIDER (Apr 16, 2007)

vanet said:


> "Just had to say that SS was NEVER intended to be a person's only income when they retire."
> 
> Wendy you are wrong. SS is NOT ment to be a supplemental income. As soon as a retired person begins to make additional income, or has income from an investment his SS is reduced. If it were ment to supplement your other incomes this wouldnt be the case.


Also when SS began the average life span of a man was 61 yrs old. At the time they figured many could pay in and a very few would get paid in old age. Now almost everyone pays in and almost everyone lives long enough to get paid. Not to mention the children who get checks after parents pass etc. It was a system designed to fail for that reason.


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## fantasymaker (Aug 28, 2005)

salmonslayer said:


> What are you talking about? There is no offset of SS for working or having investment income and you can be a multi millionaire and draw social security. Social security was indeed meant as a supplement to a regular retirement and when I can draw it in a few years (if its still around) it will just be pin money in addition to the multiple retirements I am already drawing.
> 
> I think you are confused with social security disability payments.


Nope Social SECURITY INSURANCE was meant as a net, a catch all. It was not meant for people in your situation and that is why its losing solvency.


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## suitcase_sally (Mar 20, 2006)

vanet said:


> You are so right! I had an employee a while back, that no matter how much I gave him on Friday. He had to borrow gas money on monday. I am not talking minimum wage, he had some weekly checks over $3000. His utiities were constantly getting shut off, and he never had anything. I guess he had a "good time" though?


That is so sad.

It's a good thing I'm not his wife. A month or two of me yanking a kink in his grits and he'd be whistling a different tune.

But I wouldn't be attracted to someone like that..


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## Annsni (Oct 27, 2006)

I do SwagBucks for a few extra dollars a month. It's a lot of work for a few bucks but I'm home anyway so I do it. I had a survey ask what income bracket I was in:

$0 - $250,000
$250,000 - $500,000
$500,000 - $1,000,000
$1,000,000 +

I clicked on the first one obviously and was disqualified. I commented on the SB Facebook page about how many millionaires were doing SwagBucks and a woman said that her SIL made over $250,000 and did SB because she had 3 kids in college. LOL Seriously? Even if you actually paid every penny of college, you still have about a hundred grand leftover for yourself with three in college! I've got 2 in private college and make quite a bit less than 1/3 of that!!! She said "Well, money is tight for them!!" Umm - just because that's their choice, honey!


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## salmonslayer (Jan 4, 2009)

fantasymaker said:


> Nope Social SECURITY INSURANCE was meant as a net, a catch all. It was not meant for people in your situation and that is why its losing solvency.


 I think you misunderstand my point, right now there is nothing stopping a wealthy person or a person still earning a good salary from drawing SS even though they dont need it because it is age based and not need based. On my last statement I have paid in over 72K to SS lifetime and am eligible to draw 1200 and change a month when minimally eligible. I will have recouped my 72K in 5 years and my life expectancy is far beyond that 5 years...that is why it is failing. 

SS was implemented as a safety net for the poor and a supplement to individually earned retirement, it was never meant to be the primary retirement program of most people. The poster I was responding to put out incorrect information that if you work past SS age they deduct what you earn from what you are drawing on SS which is false. The subject of needs based SS eligibility is precisely what is being debated in Congress right now.


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## Danaus29 (Sep 12, 2005)

Melissa, true, you can get most or all of state and federal income taxes back. But in most cases some is still deducted and you have to file to get what little was taken back. That's all I was trying to point out, it's still deducted unless you file the W-4 exemption for federal income taxes. As for the city taxes, if you live or work inside city limits it's still taken out and you never get it back. Really stinks IMO. 

So yes, in order to have $1000 a month take-home pay, you have to earn more than $1000 a month. How much more depends on how you figure and file your taxes, where you work and where you live.

Just kind of reminds me about the time when Mom moved out on her own with us kids in tow. $120 a year in taxes would have been an extra $10 a month. There were months when that $10 would have made a HUGE difference. I don't like living that close to the edge.


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## TheMartianChick (May 26, 2009)

My household couldn't function on $1000 per month. Our monthly bills are higher than that. Our primary residence has a mortgage as do a couple of our rentals. Luckily for us, our rentals provide more income than $1000 per month and we don't have to earn it at a job. In other words, if one of us were to get sick, we still have an income.


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## sidepasser (May 10, 2002)

My dad drew SS for about six months and then went back to work full time (he was 68 at the time and retirement in full was age 65 for him). My mom had to pay back every penny he earned to SS. My Dad was not on SS disability either. He had regular SS. My dad continued to work until he passed away at age 72. The SS office said he made too working at his regular job and was not "retired". In other words, if you don't retire, you cannot draw SS. So we had to pay it back. My mom still rants about that, but my dad retired, hated it and went back to work within months of his official "retirement".

Here are the rules on working and drawing SS:

http://ssa-custhelp.ssa.gov/app/ans...k-affects-social-security-retirement-payments


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## salmonslayer (Jan 4, 2009)

sidepasser said:


> My dad drew SS for about six months and then went back to work full time (he was 68 at the time and retirement in full was age 65 for him). My mom had to pay back every penny he earned to SS. My Dad was not on SS disability either. He had regular SS. My dad continued to work until he passed away at age 72. The SS office said he made too working at his regular job and was not "retired". In other words, if you don't retire, you cannot draw SS. So we had to pay it back. My mom still rants about that, but my dad retired, hated it and went back to work within months of his official "retirement".
> 
> Here are the rules on working and drawing SS:
> 
> http://ssa-custhelp.ssa.gov/app/ans...k-affects-social-security-retirement-payments


 Again, that does not apply if you are drawing SS at full retirement age, its in the link you provided. Drawing SS early has several disadvantages which your father found out.


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## vanet (Aug 30, 2011)

My grand mother went back to work at 90 baking pies for a local restrant. She didnt think it would make any difference in her SS, but they cut her SS and it took her almost a year after she quit doing it to get it put back. I dont know all the laws, but i do know they limit how much you can make if you draw SS.


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## Cindy in PA (May 13, 2002)

suitcase_sally said:


> That's over $20,000/yr. I think I would just bank the $20,000 and in 10 years you would have $200,000 + interest.


Sure you would EXCEPT if you were hospitalized & the health care system took everything you owned. You would have $200,000 but interest....good luck with that!


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## Annsni (Oct 27, 2006)

Cindy in PA said:


> Sure you would EXCEPT if you were hospitalized & the health care system took everything you owned. You would have $200,000 but interest....good luck with that!


Very true. In the last 10 years, we've had:

Hubby fell off the roof - total cost $80,000
Hubby tore off a toe (well, almost - the bone stayed) - $8,000
21 year old daughter had a pancreatic tumor and was in the hospital for a month $175,000.

So we have already blown through that $200,000 PLUS that doesn't include the rest of us going for checkups, mammograms, illnesses, etc.


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## notbutanapron (Jun 30, 2011)

This is depressing! I know I live in a socialist nation and viewed upon as having very little rights - but I was once nearly dead in hospital, ICU for two weeks, hospital for two months, machines, etc... the total cost to me was a hundred and fifty dollars - plus forty for the specialist appointment*S *afterwards [here a specialist you pay for the first visit and every followup relating to the same issue after that is covered since you clearly need it].

I know free healthcare isn't a popular topic in America but a hundred and seventy thousand? Eight thousand for a TOE? You didn't even get to keep it!

I look forward to saving money and not having to spend it worrying whether or not I'll be able to afford one of us to live or not. Living with those prices looming over my head would just turn me into a bundle of nerves.

As it is I'm allowed to go to the doctor any time I want, same day, for free, as much as I want. The relief I feel knowing I can do that is immense.


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## Annsni (Oct 27, 2006)

notbutanapron said:


> I know free healthcare isn't a popular topic in America but a hundred and seventy thousand? Eight thousand for a TOE? You didn't even get to keep it!


Well, he DID keep the toe - they sewed it back on. 

But $170,000 - yes. She had one of the best pancreatic team in the world. It was WELL worth it because there's a good chance she wouldn't be here without the high quality care she got.

The question I have is this: How much do you pay in taxes to cover your healthcare? How much in debt is your country? Can your country continue to sustain completely free healthcare?


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## edcopp (Oct 9, 2004)

No problem for me to live nicely on less than $1,000 per month, this includes DW too. We/I have practiced for a long time.


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## notbutanapron (Jun 30, 2011)

Annsni said:


> Well, he DID keep the toe - they sewed it back on.
> 
> But $170,000 - yes. She had one of the best pancreatic team in the world. It was WELL worth it because there's a good chance she wouldn't be here without the high quality care she got.
> 
> The question I have is this: How much do you pay in taxes to cover your healthcare? How much in debt is your country? Can your country continue to sustain completely free healthcare?


Our taxes are high, but nothing I can't manage. As a non-citizen for awhile they were 49.8 percent which nearly killed me! Now they're a solid thirty, which is high, but I also pay GST for my business. I also pay for a more privatized healthcare which gets me better treatment and that costs me a hundred a month.

Our country has a little debt. We were doing really really well until America went all depression on us and we fell with it. We still are doing alright - my particular state is a bit sorry but we're also working on that right now with some reforms. We should be able to keep affording it nicely, there is no worry or concern about it ever being unaffordable - even Superannuation [Aus medicare, which our Medicare is our healthcare, confusing] is still strong and looking good. Nobody I know feels like they won't get it. It's all written out and sent to each citizen every year for review and discussion. 

Of COURSE that money is worth it! I wouldn't say it's not - but I also think the money is that high because the med industry knows it's "worth it". After all, what's the price of your daughters life? Exactly. I'm glad your husband got his toe back!

Here both those surgeries would've either been free, or a few hundred dollars for the excess on the private healthcare. Not that it's not worth it - just that it's worth it to not have to worry about it!


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## Guest (Jan 18, 2013)

I sort of imagine that everybody in the USA could have pretty good government paid healthcare with the amount of money sent overseas, both to wage war, and fix the damage after we wage war. If not, lend the people a few trillion dollars. After all, it was the thing to do for Goldman Sachs, Citibank, Bank of America, and a few more huge crooked banks. Not to mention the billions in pork whizzed away in nearly every bill that hits the voting floor.
Keeping people well and feeding them is not as important as giving money to huge, corrupt, market-manipulating banks though. Because a poor man doesn't have $43,357,362 to buy politicians to represent him. 
*
*


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## Farmer Dave (Jan 1, 2003)

WOW...I just had an eye opening realization! I did the math in February 2009 when I was laid off work and I could easily live off of $1000 a month. I redid the math yesterday and discovered that because of the increases in utilities, insurance, gas and food over the past 4 years that I would need more like $1600 a month to get by. That sucks!!!!


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## Danaus29 (Sep 12, 2005)

From the link sidepasser provided:
*In the year you reach full retirement age:*


 *You can earn $38,880 gross wages or net self-employment prior to the month you reach full retirement age and not lose any benefits in 2012.*
*We will deduct $1 in benefits for every $3 earned above $38,880.*
So yes, if you earn more than a certain set amount you can lose your soc sec.


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## Cabin Fever (May 10, 2002)

Danaus29 said:


> From the link sidepasser provided:
> *In the year you reach full retirement age:*
> 
> 
> ...


 Do "earnings" include monthly payments from a pension?


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## emdeengee (Apr 20, 2010)

Annsni said:


> Well, he DID keep the toe - they sewed it back on.
> 
> But $170,000 - yes. She had one of the best pancreatic team in the world. It was WELL worth it because there's a good chance she wouldn't be here without the high quality care she got.
> 
> The question I have is this: How much do you pay in taxes to cover your healthcare? How much in debt is your country? Can your country continue to sustain completely free healthcare?


"Free" healthcare is not what Australia or Canada has. Our healthcare is paid for by us through taxes collected by the government but the government does not control our actual healthcare. The decision makers are the patients and the doctors. Canadians pay half of what Americans pay for the same healthcare services. 

If you compare income tax rates between Canada and the US you will see that contrary to the propaganda we are very similar and in fact the top rate for Canada is less than the US and here corporate tax is only 15% . 

I paid a total of $16,000 federal and provincial income tax on an $82,000 taxable income which is 19.5%. I have no deductions that would lower our taxes. Of that $ 16,000 ten percent is applied to healthcare which means it cost me $1600.

I have cancer and my treatments and after cost care have reached $500,000 which is more than all the taxes that I have paid working over the past 40 years so I am quite happy paying my taxes which cover much more than just healthcare. And everyone gets the same access to healthcare.


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## countryfied2011 (Jul 5, 2011)

Cabin Fever said:


> Do "earnings" include monthly payments from a pension?


Dh gets a pension from the firehall...it doesnt effect his SS. But if he went to work somewhere he could only make a certain yrly amount. But he also took SS at 62, I dont know if it makes a difference at normal retirement age


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## Wendy (May 10, 2002)

> 21 year old daughter had a pancreatic tumor and was in the hospital for a month $175,000.


I don't mean this in a bad way, but at the age of 21, why are you responsible for your daughter's hospital bill??

I can see you helping her out if she needs help, but you shouldn't be responsible for her bill.


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## greenmcdonalds (Oct 30, 2006)

I agree with Zong on not trusting Medical P. When O care comes to affect , I will quit my job, and just live with cash from my business. If we never had to pay for tax on land or anything else , everyone could live on less than a 1000.00 a month.


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## Annsni (Oct 27, 2006)

Wendy said:


> I don't mean this in a bad way, but at the age of 21, why are you responsible for your daughter's hospital bill??
> 
> I can see you helping her out if she needs help, but you shouldn't be responsible for her bill.


Because she's on our insurance? She was a full time college student and working 25 hours a week as well and since she's a college student, she is on our own insurance. 

Do you think a 21 year old should only be responsible for their own medical bills?


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## sidepasser (May 10, 2002)

Cabin Fever said:


> Do "earnings" include monthly payments from a pension?


I found this link to pension earnings and social security:

http://ssa-custhelp.ssa.gov/app/ans...-pensions-affect-your-social-security-benefit


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## Cabin Fever (May 10, 2002)

sidepasser said:


> I found this link to pension earnings and social security:
> 
> http://ssa-custhelp.ssa.gov/app/ans...-pensions-affect-your-social-security-benefit


 Thanks! The link answered my question.


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## seedspreader (Oct 18, 2004)

notbutanapron said:


> Our taxes are high, but nothing I can't manage. As a non-citizen for awhile they were 49.8 percent which nearly killed me! Now they're a solid thirty, which is high, but I also pay GST for my business. I also pay for a more privatized healthcare which gets me better treatment and that costs me a hundred a month.
> 
> Our country has a little debt. We were doing really really well until America went all depression on us and we fell with it. We still are doing alright - my particular state is a bit sorry but we're also working on that right now with some reforms. We should be able to keep affording it nicely, there is no worry or concern about it ever being unaffordable - even Superannuation [Aus medicare, which our Medicare is our healthcare, confusing] is still strong and looking good. Nobody I know feels like they won't get it. It's all written out and sent to each citizen every year for review and discussion.
> 
> ...


How much are your real estate taxes?


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## Wendy (May 10, 2002)

> Because she's on our insurance? She was a full time college student and working 25 hours a week as well and since she's a college student, she is on our own insurance.
> 
> Do you think a 21 year old should only be responsible for their own medical bills?


I see. 

Yes, I think at 21 they should be responsible for their own medical bills. Afterall, they are considered an adult at that age. I have a 21 year old that lives on her own. I do not know her medical bills nor do we pay for them. I was on my own at 18 & my parents didn't pay my medical expenses. At what magical age should adults be held responsible for their own bills? Just wondering. I think the thing of keeping them on their parents insurance until age 26 is dumb. Too many people living & mooching off of their parents instead of becoming responsible adults. Not directing this at you, but I see a lot of it around here & have several neices & nephews doing just that. One neice who got mad because her dad changed jobs & he no longer has insurance to cover her. She is out of school making twice the money my brother does, yet thinks he should still pay her medical expenses. Kids need to grow up at some point.


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## Annsni (Oct 27, 2006)

Wendy said:


> I see.
> 
> Yes, I think at 21 they should be responsible for their own medical bills. Afterall, they are considered an adult at that age. I have a 21 year old that lives on her own. I do not know her medical bills nor do we pay for them. I was on my own at 18 & my parents didn't pay my medical expenses. At what magical age should adults be held responsible for their own bills? Just wondering. I think the thing of keeping them on their parents insurance until age 26 is dumb. Too many people living & mooching off of their parents instead of becoming responsible adults. Not directing this at you, but I see a lot of it around here & have several neices & nephews doing just that. One neice who got mad because her dad changed jobs & he no longer has insurance to cover her. She is out of school making twice the money my brother does, yet thinks he should still pay her medical expenses. Kids need to grow up at some point.



Hmm - full time college, student teaching and working 25 hours a week. I'd not call that "mooching".


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## michelleIL (Aug 29, 2004)

I was responsible for my own when I was 18 so I think so yes. I live in a college town where momma's and daddy's kids can go and do whatever they want with no sense of responsibility. I would love to feel comfortable living on 1000 per month, but I had not and I have been forced to live on that or less for most of my adult life, which is why I went back to school yet again. I want a real job, and people aren't looking at a person's education that much. I'm thinking I could live on 1000 per month once I finally get the trailer paid off, but I don't have a car and don't have insurance. I can't afford insurance, except the university insurance is included with tuition and fees, but that is 400 bucks for something like four months! Atrocious prices. I can have a garden, but y garden didn't do crap last year, so we shall see this year. Thankfully I have some food set by in the pantry area, otherwise I'd be screwed. Medical bills would really screw me if I paid them when they occurred. LOL I consider eating and paying the electic bill more important than driving and having med bills paid. This month's electric bill is approximately 295 bucks! My lot rent is 207...my trailer pmt is 200. My phone is 50 and my internet is 60. I live month to month hand to mouth. I am currently unemployed, looking for work. We shall see how it goes!


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## mpillow (Jan 24, 2003)

We dont have healthcare or a job at the moment....a family of 5 and yes we could make it on $1000 a month:
phone/sattv/electric==$120
prop taxes/vehicle and home ins licensing ==400
animal feed==200 (lots of milk, meat and eggs)
grocery===120 (beans/rice/ramen)
gas===100
$60 left and saved for wood/ repairs

we have no mortgage so that helps very much....so for 1 person it should be easy peasy


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## Annsni (Oct 27, 2006)

michelleIL said:


> I was responsible for my own when I was 18 so I think so yes.


What were you doing at 18?


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## City Bound (Jan 24, 2009)

with no rent or morgage I think some people could live on a grand a month.

In the summer I spend about $20 a month on food because most of my food comes from my garden.


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## mpillow (Jan 24, 2003)

I make an extra $100 a month easily doing the pay sites listed in my sig line....so this helps buy odds and ends and dog food/toilet paper...if I can do it anyone can---I dont even have internet at home because it isn't a necessity...the library is close by.


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## michelleIL (Aug 29, 2004)

living hand to mouth it was the beginning of medical bills, from going to the er, then going tcourt and eventully payig it...been in various debt since 18. Working crap jobs, living on public aid...being a bum basically...a sad existence. I'm a full time student for the umpteenth time and now looking for student employment. We shall see.Tired of only qualifying for crap!


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## Annsni (Oct 27, 2006)

michelleIL said:


> living hand to mouth it was the beginning of medical bills, from going to the er, then going tcourt and eventully payig it...been in various debt since 18. Working crap jobs, living on public aid...being a bum basically...a sad existence. I'm a full time student for the umpteenth time and now looking for student employment. We shall see.Tired of only qualifying for crap!


So you're saying that this is what all 18 year olds should do? That they should not mooch off their parents but have a sucky existence and go into serious debt because of medical bills? Or is it OK for their parents to LEGALLY cover their insurance (the company pays for it) while they are working, doing student teaching and going to college full time?


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## motdaugrnds (Jul 3, 2002)

I believe the majority would agree that being debt free is the key to cutting living expenses; and growing your (and your animals') own food is next best.

In the USA being responsible for yourself means medical & insurance (home and autos) plus the monthly bills (whatever they may be) & taxes, whether you eat or not. Growing your own food allows you to actually survive in a healthy manner, especially if one has learned about the wild vegetation one has....and their water is healthy.

With the gasoline prices as they are and food prices going up, we have learned to be prudent, i.e. making ONE trip into town to get all we will need for the full month. This is always only what we do not grow/raise ourselves and includes paper needs.

It is not an easy thing for us to live on $1,000 per month; but it has been doable; and will get better after I get the raised bed for root crops in and a wood stove that our home insurance policy holder will approve of. (Of course, we no longer try to "keep up with the Jones", do not have a cell phone nor cable & only buy work clothes.)


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## City Bound (Jan 24, 2009)

what do you consider the poverty line to be? 12 grand a year is bellow the poverty line, right?


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## michelleIL (Aug 29, 2004)

No I think a 21 year old should be able to cover their own cost of insurance. I didn't get covered. Do I advocate this? Heck no, but I survived it.


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## michelleIL (Aug 29, 2004)

I'm in school trying to lift myself out of abject poverty


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## michelleIL (Aug 29, 2004)

I think the poverty line for one is 24 grand a year gross.


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## Annsni (Oct 27, 2006)

michelleIL said:


> No I think a 21 year old should be able to cover their own cost of insurance. I didn't get covered. Do I advocate this? Heck no, but I survived it.


Why? We pay for family insurance. She's legally allowed on it and if we dropped her, it wouldn't save us a penny. So why should she cover her own insurance when she's already covered?


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## ldc (Oct 11, 2006)

All, the federal poverty line for an individual is 9K, for a family of 4, it is 21K, last time I looked at the "benefits".


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## michelleIL (Aug 29, 2004)

everything I suffered has made me stronger.


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## michelleIL (Aug 29, 2004)

http://www.familiesusa.org/resources/tools-for-advocates/guides/federal-poverty-guidelines.html

this site says it is 11,000...so it is close to pov to live on 1,000 per month...ut that is gross income not net.


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## coolrunnin (Aug 28, 2010)

michelleIL said:


> everything I suffered has made me stronger.


would you honestly do it over again if you had other choices?


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## michelleIL (Aug 29, 2004)

of course not! I live in a college town so I'm a bit jaded by what I see.


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## SilverFlame819 (Aug 24, 2010)

I can and I do...


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## Wendy (May 10, 2002)

> Hmm - full time college, student teaching and working 25 hours a week. I'd not call that "mooching".


I am talking more about the kids that finish school, yet still remain on their parent's insurance & live with them paying nothing. I see this everywhere. A lot of this in my extended family. Their life is all about me, me, me & nothing about helping pay their own way. If an adult is done with college & has a job, why should the parents pay the insurance? Why should a company supply insurance on an adult that is not employed with them? Take my brother for instance. Why should he have to pay for a family rate on insurance to supply his grown daughter who is out of school making twice as much per hour as he was?

Another instance. A girl that lived with her boyfriend, got pregnant, & her dad's insurance paid for her pregnancy & hospital stay. Sorry, but that is wrong. She is old enough to play house, but not old enough to pay the bills. Instead her dad's employer is paying the insurance on an adult that should be paying her own way.

The question was could you live on $1,000.00 per month. I think more people could if they were taught at a young age to be responsible for their own bills. Most are not & have no concept of how to live on very little as they aren't made to pay for anything & have no clue what it means to do without & live within your means. 

My son will be off to college soon & we have no plans on paying his way. He knows this & is working hard to do it on his own. He is welcome to stay here while he goes, but will be asked to contribute in the form of rent once he turns 18. I did it & so did my husband & it taught us something. We also paid for our own clothes & phone bills, along with gas, insurance, & license. Once my son turns 18 he will get his own car insurance policy. It would be cheaper to stay on ours, but as an ADULT, he needs to learn to make it on his own. I have no doubt he could live on $1,000 a month as he is very good at managing his money. I know a lot of people want their kids to have a better life. I don't feel like I had a bad life, so I am doing what my parents did with me. We don't make a lot of money, but we manage with what we have.


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## Annsni (Oct 27, 2006)

Wendy said:


> I am talking more about the kids that finish school, yet still remain on their parent's insurance & live with them paying nothing. I see this everywhere. A lot of this in my extended family. Their life is all about me, me, me & nothing about helping pay their own way. If an adult is done with college & has a job, why should the parents pay the insurance? Why should a company supply insurance on an adult that is not employed with them? Take my brother for instance. Why should he have to pay for a family rate on insurance to supply his grown daughter who is out of school making twice as much per hour as he was?


But I already said that she was still in school. So why should she have to pay her own insurance? She already pays for all of her living expenses except rent (because she's a full time college student) including her car repairs, gas (significant since school is 60 miles away round trip), car insurance, cell phone, books, arts supplies (very costly when you are an art education student), clothing, entertainment, etc. We pay for her health insurance, housing, food (when she eats at home). Sometimes as a treat, I'll flip her a little when she takes her siblings out to the movies or something.

Just because your brother CHOOSES to pay for his daughter's insurance doesn't mean that there is anything wrong with me having my daughter on mine. Don't project someone else's situation on mine. My daughter certainly doesn't make more than what she is responsible to pay for already.


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## notbutanapron (Jun 30, 2011)

seedspreader said:


> How much are your real estate taxes?


I don't know personally as I don't own, but I found this information:

Income Tax 
Up to 37,000 (US$38,793) 29% 
37,000 - 80,000 (US$83,877) 30% on band over US$38,793 
80,000 &#8211; 180,000 (US$188,723) 37% on band over US$83,877 
Over 180,000 (US$188,723) 45% on all income over US$188,723 

And this is our land tax:
TAX BASE, AU$ (US$) TAX RATE 
Up to 387,000 (US$405,754) AUD100 (US$105) 
387,000 &#8211; 2,366,000 (US$2,480,659) 1.6% on band over US$405,754 
Over 2,366,000 (US$2,480,659) 2% on all value over US$2,480,659

I even got the info of the most expensive state for you.


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## houndlover (Feb 20, 2009)

My two youngest are still on my health insurance, car insurance, and family cell phone plan. One is 21 and one is 23. Neither live at home. Both work full time, but in this economy, they still have a lot of trouble paying their own way. Eventually they'll be able to. I'm happy to help my kids. They appreciate it and honestly, neither likes that we have to continue to help them, but both are more than willing to come over and help me when I need it, or house sit for us so we can get away. We aren't spoiling them, we're helping them. That's what parents do.


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## ajaxlucy (Jul 18, 2004)

It's possible to live on $1000/month in a major city. One of my best friends has done this for years. Her home is paid off, so she pays taxes but no mortgage. She is widowed and has no kids.

She has a car and car insurance, but also has a bike and walks a lot instead of driving everywhere. She goes to the library to use the computer and has a land line phone and a cell phone for emergencies when she travels. She never turns on the air conditioner in summer and doesn't heat the house above 60 degrees in winter (45-50 at night). 

We garden together and during the growing season she buys only a few groceries, living out of the garden for the most part. She's mostly vegetarian and eats twice a day, cooks for herself - frugal, healthy foods, like pot barley porridge for breakfast. She's no fashion plate, shopping mostly at thrift stores if she needs clothing. Last time I saw her she was wearing a really nice winter coat that she paid $20 for (a splurge for her). 

She could work more and have a bigger income, but chooses to make just enough money so that she can do what she wants with most of her time.

She has enough money to go out occasionally: a movie, lunch, trips to visit friends out of state etc. and doesn't seem to suffer her way through life at all. When she comes over for dinner, she usually brings a bottle of wine or homemade pie (with cherries or apples she foraged and froze).

She has no health insurance, though, which seems to bother me a lot more than it does her. When she has to see a doctor or dentist, she negotiates a lower cash rate or goes to one of the low cost city clinics, or doctors herself with herbal and home remedies. Thank goodness she is fundamentally very healthy. I do worry about what will happen if she becomes seriously ill or injured. She'll be eligible for Medicare in fewer than 5 years, so I just hope her constitution and luck hold up at least until then.


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## countryfied2011 (Jul 5, 2011)

houndlover said:


> My two youngest are still on my health insurance, car insurance, and family cell phone plan. One is 21 and one is 23. Neither live at home. Both work full time, but in this economy, they still have a lot of trouble paying their own way. Eventually they'll be able to. I'm happy to help my kids. They appreciate it and honestly, neither likes that we have to continue to help them, but both are more than willing to come over and help me when I need it, or house sit for us so we can get away. We aren't spoiling them, we're helping them. That's what parents do.


Do they not have health insurance at their full time job? 

I paid everything while my daughter went to college the first time but when she dropped out @19 she became a working adult just like I did and paid her own way. She bought her home, car and has paid her stuff herself. At 30 she went back to college and got her degree(paid by her) while working full time. She got her bachelor's in 3 yrs instead of 4 by taking accelerated courses. I have never paid for any of it....now she has borrowed money a couple of times in between paychecks but was always paid back right afterwards. 

I don't fault anyone for helping their children out I have done so in the past(not paying thier bills though)...but I sometimes have to wonder when enough is enough.


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## Wendy (May 10, 2002)

Seems you kind of missed my point. Most are not paying for their child's insurance if they are insured through their employer. They may pay a portion, but I would wager the employer pays most of it. My point was, why should an employer pay for insurance on an ADULT that is not their employee? They are being forced to do this & I am sure most don't like it. A lot of people don't like the fact that some are on food stamps, wic & welfare. They cry about how their taxes pay for it & they don't like that. Yet an employer is forced to foot the insurance of a bunch of adults that are not their employees & everyone thinks that's ok?? As far as my brother. The kids live with his ex because she allows them to be moochers. Neither pays a thing to help out in the house. They rarely visit or even call their dad, yet he is supposed to pay for family coverage to cover adults that are no longer his dependents & make more money than him?? Sorry, that is stupid.

I realize the economy is bad. If they have trouble paying their own way now, are they going to depend on you forever if the economy doesn't improve? What if you are no longer around? I also go & help my parents just because they are my parents. That's just what kids should do. 

I guess I am the oddball. What I find often is people who say they can't live on XX amount because, & a big part of it is because they still pay for a lot of their kids expenses. The economy is just as bad for us as it is for our kids. Why should I support my adult child when I could use that money for our own needs? I really don't care if you want to help your kids until they are 50. Do what you want. I'm just saying more kids/adults would learn a little more if they had to struggle some to get by. It makes you strong. I want my kids to be strong & independent. Not relying on us to help them out all the time. We won't be here forever. I want them to be able to make it when we are not here to bail them out.

At Christmas my son had $40 in gas cards stolen out of his truck. I felt really bad for him. Some thought we should replace those cards for him. Sorry, tough lesson for him, but not my fault. My daughter that lives alone is in college & also blind. She stuggles at times, but she is paying her own way & also part of her school & doing just fine. I will help her if she needs a ride & sometimes give her some of my canned goods, but she was determined she didn't need our help & moved out in a snit. She is quickly learning life isn't a bed of roses. Would I let her starve? NO. Does it bother me to see her struggle? Not really as it is making her into a hard worker that will make it on her own.

I appreciate the fact that my parents didn't pay for my stuff. It made me work all the harder to make it.


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## Cornhusker (Mar 20, 2003)

This thread (the original) has me thinking that if I could live on$1000 a month, I'd be rolling in cash, and if things go bad, I'd still be ok.
I crunched some numbers, looked at stuff I could get by without (like satellite TV) and I can't get below about $1400
However, if I sell a house or two I could pay off some loans and be sitting pretty good.
Not sure I want to sell any property, but I might sell my Mustang and pay a couple notes.
Who needs a convertible anyway??


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## Lizza (Nov 30, 2005)

I haven't followed the thread too closely but it has taken an interesting turn with adult children. 

I have a 19 year old daughter who is a full time college student, she still lives at home. We pay for everything besides gas for her car. We told her very early on that we can not help with college, so she was on her own with that, but we would support her while she went to college. She worked hard and earned enough scholarships to cover her Bachelors (plus gas). She will graduate with zero debt but she had to work hard too to make that happen. 

This has made her neither lazy nor bratty. She is a great kid and hardworking. We are happy to help her get a good start in life. 

Sometimes "struggling" isn't all it's cracked up to be and just because you are forced to struggle doesn't always make you a better person. There are plenty of perfectly wonderful people that have had pretty decent lives and some horrible people that have struggled their entire lives.


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## seedspreader (Oct 18, 2004)

notbutanapron said:


> I don't know personally as I don't own, but I found this information:
> 
> Income Tax
> Up to 37,000 (US$38,793) 29%
> ...


What's the % of home ownership in Australia? Is it common for people to rent?


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## Melissa (Apr 15, 2002)

We told our kids that as long as they were in college they did not have to pay anything to us for rent to live at home and we have kept them on our health insurance also. We have paid college tuition, but they have to pay for their books and everything else they need- cars and insurance, cell phones, clothing, etc... and they have to pay any deductibles that the insurance does not cover. I have never been one who thought that just because one of my kids turned 18 they were on their own. They are there for me and I will be there for them. They do work hard at school and they don't take advantage of us.


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## Annsni (Oct 27, 2006)

Melissa said:


> We told our kids that as long as they were in college they did not have to pay anything to us for rent to live at home and we have kept them on our health insurance also. We have paid college tuition, but they have to pay for their books and everything else they need- cars and insurance, cell phones, clothing, etc... and they have to pay any deductibles that the insurance does not cover. I have never been one who thought that just because one of my kids turned 18 they were on their own. They are there for me and I will be there for them. They do work hard at school and they don't take advantage of us.


Same here although we cover medical deductibles (because we have the high deductible insurance). But pretty much everything else they pay for.

Now my oldest has graduated and we're going to see the deal with the health insurance. I believe she has to pay the COBRA price to stay on our insurance and she will be responsible for that. Or else she can go on the medical insurance at the grocery store she works at. We still have to figure this out. There's no way we're going to let her go with no insurance since she needs a CT scan yearly after having the pancreatic tumor. She also HAS to go to the doctor and get on abx if she gets sick since she has no spleen. So no insurance is not an option for her. Hopefully she will find a job teaching soon so that she can get on her own health insurance.


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## Danaus29 (Sep 12, 2005)

Insurance for college students on their parents' employee insurance has been around almost as long as employee health insurance. When I was in college my mother was able to keep me on her insurance as long as I was a full time student. Same policy when our ds was in college.


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## sidepasser (May 10, 2002)

Wendy said:


> Seems you kind of missed my point. Most are not paying for their child's insurance if they are insured through their employer. They may pay a portion, but I would wager the employer pays most of it. My point was, why should an employer pay for insurance on an ADULT that is not their employee? They are being forced to do this & I am sure most don't like it. A lot of people don't like the fact that some are on food stamps, wic & welfare. They cry about how their taxes pay for it & they don't like that. Yet an employer is forced to foot the insurance of a bunch of adults that are not their employees & everyone thinks that's ok?? As far as my brother. The kids live with his ex because she allows them to be moochers. Neither pays a thing to help out in the house. They rarely visit or even call their dad, yet he is supposed to pay for family coverage to cover adults that are no longer his dependents & make more money than him?? Sorry, that is stupid.
> 
> I realize the economy is bad. If they have trouble paying their own way now, are they going to depend on you forever if the economy doesn't improve? What if you are no longer around? I also go & help my parents just because they are my parents. That's just what kids should do.
> 
> ...



I think you may have missed the point that employers ALLOW this and expect that children over the age of 18 will be on their parent's insurance. 

I pay for my son to be on my insurance and he is 22 and still in college. He pays his car insurance and all maintenance on his car and he now pays his graduate school tuition (22,000 a year including his living expenses) and he pays for his food. 

I buy his books or rent them as the need arises and I pay my employer for his health insurance.

My son is working 20 hours per week (all the school will allow) and working FULL time on his degree including working 24 hours a week for the professors that he is receiving instruction from. He does not get paid for that time, it is expected as a graduate student to put in that time, plus studying. His last week consisted of research at the library for about 18 hours, 20 hours in class time, and 20 hours working (which pays for his food, utilities, car insurance, oil, gas, at the grand total of 7.55 per hour) plus 24 hours research time for professors = free but gives him experience and a credit on one book plus a credit towards teaching).

I would no more deny my child health insurance if my company says it is ok than I would deny my spouse. I pay PLENTY for health insurance and it is absurd to turn down what an employer agrees to provide if one is able to absorb the cost (which I can do).

Life is hard enough without saddling a kid with no health insurance especially if they can obtain it through their parent's employer. MY employer encourages it, they KNOW how hard it is to be a grad student and making zero really for wages plus having to pay for tuition, housing, car insurance, groceries, etc.

did your parents ever help you out? Then why are you so against parents helping their kids out? Maybe everyone should only do for themselves..wait..you said you help your parents out..that is what kids do.  Why should kids do that if parents do not help them when they need it? Seems that would be a two way street? 

I help my Mom and my kid. I can do without a new saddle to help the kid finish grad school, I can do without new riding boots to help my mom with her "get around stuff" like her 4 prong cane and her step stool to get in bed and in a few weeks, her wheelchair.


I think I will send this post to my kid. He probably has forgotten how "good" he has it as he eats out of the box of groceries his sister gave him for Christmas and uses the coupons I send him each week for groceries. Lord knows at least he can get his medication through MY insurance.


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## Annsni (Oct 27, 2006)

sidepasser said:


> I think you may have missed the point that employers ALLOW this and expect that children over the age of 18 will be on their parent's insurance.


Additionally, at least with our insurance you pay either as an individual or a family. Doesn't matter if the family is 2 people or 10 people. So there is no additional cost to anyone to have my daughter on the insurance as long as she is in school.


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## sidepasser (May 10, 2002)

Mine is the same way, if I have 2 people or ten people, the cost is the same. My son needs the insurance as school insurance will not cover him past the curb of the school grounds.


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## countryfied2011 (Jul 5, 2011)

sidepasser said:


> I think you may have missed the point that employers ALLOW this and expect that children over the age of 18 will be on their parent's insurance.


I think it is mandatory that employers pay for married or unmarried children's insurance until they 26..Isnt that what the Affordable Health Care Act was?

Personally I have no problem taking care of a child as long as they are going to college...I didnt want my daughter to work her first time around because I wanted her to concentrate on studies....when she dropped out, it became her problem...I considered her a working adult regardless of how the economy was(her decision, her consequences). She realize when she was 30 if she wanted to make more money and live the lifestyle she wanted she had to go back to school and get a degree in her field.. 

But when a child is an adult living out on their own and not going to college...no way in heck would I being paying for insurance etc To each his own..


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## Annsni (Oct 27, 2006)

countryfied2011 said:


> I think it is mandatory that employers pay for married or unmarried children's insurance until they 26..Isnt that what the Affordable Health Care Act was?
> 
> Personally I have no problem taking care of a child as long as they are going to college...I didnt want my daughter to work her first time around because I wanted her to concentrate on studies....when she dropped out, it became her problem...I considered her a working adult regardless of how the economy was(her decision, her consequences). She realize when she was 30 if she wanted to make more money and live the lifestyle she wanted she had to go back to school and get a degree in her field..
> 
> But when a child is an adult living out on their own and not going to college...no way in heck would I being paying for insurance etc To each his own..


I believe that once they are out of school, it becomes a situation where they can still be covered but they need to pay for the costs. They have to pay what an individual would pay for COBRA. I'm not positive - I need to check into it more because my daughter just graduated and we're at that point but they are NOT just automatically covered under the family plan anymore.


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## countryfied2011 (Jul 5, 2011)

> How does the Affordable Care Act help young adults?
> Before the President signed the Affordable Care Act into law, many health plans and issuers could remove adult children from their parents' policies because of their age, whether or not they were a student or where they lived. The Affordable Care Act requires plans and issuers that offer dependent coverage to make the coverage available until the adult child reaches the age of 26. Many parents and their children who worried about losing health insurance after they graduated from college no longer have to worry.


the rest of the Q&A

http://www.dol.gov/ebsa/faqs/faq-dependentcoverage.html


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## City Bound (Jan 24, 2009)

When I was in my ealry 20's I had a cobra plan rom my parent's insurance. I forget what it cost me a month. I paid a monthly fee and had a different copay rate. I could only keep the plan for three years though. it was sort of a grace period and I think it is a good idea.


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## Annsni (Oct 27, 2006)

Knowing how hard it is for graduates to get a job, I think it's great to have the ability to buy insurance through your parent's insurance. It at least will help until you get a job with coverage!


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## sidepasser (May 10, 2002)

Hi CB, glad to see you around. I hope you are doing ok, I think of you often and wonder if you are alright since the storms. Let me know if you need anything, I will be glad to send you what ever I can. Maybe seeds for your garden?


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## Classof66 (Jul 9, 2011)

I believe in the 60's seniors who had not been receiving SS were able to get it. My grandma had been a self employed dressmaker and she was able to get a small amount. I think they were able to" borrow quarters" from people like my dad who had been paying into it. My great uncle who had been tenant farmer also received a small amount under this plan,but my aunt was not elgible as she had been born in Germany, right before her family came over. I do remember hearing how people had to prove documentation they had been born in the US. Baptismal records were often used, and I believe they also took the word of someone who remembered their birth. My dad remembered the old days when indigent seniors went to the poor farm and always said SS was never intended to be lived on, it just gave people a little to keep them from having to go to the poor farm. Our county did have a poor farm and it even had a little cemetery.


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## City Bound (Jan 24, 2009)

hi seed. i am doing ok. just swamped in repairs rom the lood. I do not need anything. i am good. thank you


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## InvalidID (Feb 18, 2011)

Just found this one. 1k a month?!!! Pffft, I couldn't cover the house with that. On 1k a month I would have to live in a van...


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## Wendy (May 10, 2002)

> did your parents ever help you out? Then why are you so against parents helping their kids out? Maybe everyone should only do for themselves..wait..you said you help your parents out..that is what kids do. Why should kids do that if parents do not help them when they need it? Seems that would be a two way street?


I did not say I was against parents helping their kids out. My parents have helped us, loaned us money that we had to pay back. Dad did the labor when we remodeled the house. Never said they didn't help. However, they would NEVER pay for my cell phone because it is a want, not a need. They would not allow us to move back in once we were on our own unless our house burned down or a tornado hit it. My parents are wonderful & helped all of their kids when they need it, but that did not include paying their bills. A loan to help us pay one, but not picking up the tab themselves. Too many kids now, EXPECT their parents to pay their bills. That is the difference. Not directing that at anyone here, but I have seen it enough in my own family.


The insurance law was forced upon companies, it wasn't something they chose to do.


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## countryfied2011 (Jul 5, 2011)

There is a big difference between helping out our children and enabling them. I worked with a lady whose daughter 21 at the time, the lady's husband worked two jobs at the time and she worked. The daughter went to college 12 hrs a week and worked a part-time job another 12 hrs a week....total of 24 hrs in 7 days. The rest of the time she did as she pleased with her boyfriend. Mom and dad washed her clothes etc, did nothing around the house unless told to. Her college was paid for, she did provide her own entertainment expense, gas money and bought her clothes---but parents paid for her iphone. She socked her money into savings. At the time she had 5,000.00 in her account according to the mom. 3 yr in college and still hadn't picked a major, nor had no idea what she wanted a career in. 

I ask her why she was still doing all the things she was doing..all she could say was I dont know....I also ask her what was her daughter going to do when she and her husband could no longer work etc etc. My point to her that she was hurting her daughter more than she was helping her....and yes her daughter was a good child and never got into to trouble---otoh her daughter knew a good thing when she saw and continued the lifestyle since mom and dad would let it go on....I dont consider that helping a child, I consider that enabling a child to have no responsibility. Actually it is a form of abuse imo~


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## wharton (Oct 9, 2011)

I have two young adult children in state universities. They both work as many hours as they can, while still leaving enough time to keep their GPAs up. Sadly, there are a few here who have no clue as to the world a young adult faces now. Comments assuming that a student with a part time job SHOULD be getting health insurance from their employer, or that it's possible to pay your own way, by working through school, indicate that there are more than a few who haven't got a clue here. In the northeast a state school runs roughly $20K with everything included, per year. Their car insurance, that costs me less than $700 year, when the kids are under my policy, ends up about 4-6X that. when you "put your foot down" and force the kid to get their own. My son will be an engineer shortly. i have seen gifted classmates of his have to pospone finishing their degrees when the family finances collapse. Thinking that this can be solved by telling junior to go get a job at Burger King, and pull themselves up by their own bootstraps, is nothing but a fantasy. It was quite possible when I was their age, but now it requires parental involvement, and often a huge student loan mortgage that leads to long tern crushing debt as the young adult goes off to start a new career. Assuming that they will be able to find a job in their field.​


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## Wolf mom (Mar 8, 2005)

I work with elders that live on an average of $700.00 a month including rent (subsidized). And of course, living in an apartment and very old with arthritis, etc, it's difficult to grow your own food. 

When you have to make a choice between going blind (getting macular degeneration shots) and getting dentures life is not fun anymore.


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## countryfied2011 (Jul 5, 2011)

> Comments assuming that a student with a part time job SHOULD be getting health insurance from their employer, or that it's possible to pay your own way, by working through school, indicate that there are more than a few who haven't got a clue here


I must of missed the part of a student with a part-time job getting Health Insurance..I did however read about two young adult children(nothing said about going to school) working full time jobs living on their own and the parents still paying insurances and cellphones. 

And yes it is possible to pay your own way by working through school...My daughter(single) at 30 just did it, while having a house payment(not rental), car payment etc. Working 8 to 12 hr days sometimes 7 days a week and then spending 5 hrs in class a couple of nights a week....she got her bachelor's in 3 yrs instead of 4 by taking accelerated class and testing out of some courses. She graduated with honors. She is 34 now. I didn't pay a dime of it


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## wharton (Oct 9, 2011)

Wendy said:


> However, they would NEVER pay for my cell phone because it is a want, not a need.


 Don't know where you get this idea? Cell phones are no longer an option for most kids, or young adults. Both of my kids live at their schools. Land lines are no longer an option, and being unreachable isn't either. As parents I expect to be able to reach my kids in the event of an emergency. Employers expect to be able to reach them quickly also. ( my daughter picks up dozens of hours a month by being reliable and available at a moments notice, when her employer needs a quick replacement for a flake who failed to show up for their shift, Tough to do without a cell phone, eh?) As my son finishes his engineering degree, I can't imagine him telling interviewers from multi-national companies that he doesn't have a cell phone because it isn't necessary in today's world. In an era where a lot of 20 YO kids have never sent or recieved a FAX, find Email to be a slow, irritating way for the elderly to communicate, and typically send thousands of text messages a month, calling cell phones a "want" is a decade or two behind the curve.


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## countryfied2011 (Jul 5, 2011)

cell phones are a need now days....but iphones or smartphones arent...big difference. And most kids have the latest fad in phones


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## wharton (Oct 9, 2011)

countryfied2011 said:


> I must of missed the part of a student with a part-time job getting Health Insurance..I did however read about two young adult children(nothing said about going to school) working full time jobs living on their own and the parents still paying insurances and cellphones.
> 
> And yes it is possible to pay your own way by working through school...My daughter(single) at 30 just did it, while having a house payment(not rental), car payment etc. Working 8 to 12 hr days sometimes 7 days a week and then spending 5 hrs in class a couple of nights a week....she got her bachelor's in 3 yrs instead of 4 by taking accelerated class and testing out of some courses. She graduated with honors. She is 34 now. I didn't pay a dime of it


My son just did a summer of physics classes. Two classes, $4K in tuition. Spent 45-60 hrs/wk on it. He also works nearly full time repairing heavy equipment. In his case, he is making about 40%-50% of what he would need to met his financial needs including tuition, and he has a job that pays far more than most of his classmates. I'm sure it's possible for some, but for most it just isn't reality. There is a big difference between a few night classes, and having a full 18 credit, five day a week schedule of classes and labs, while trying to find a way to make $30K gross. per year to pay for it. Bottom line is that it just doesn't pencil out.


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## wharton (Oct 9, 2011)

countryfied2011 said:


> cell phones are a need now days....but iphones or smartphones arent...big difference. And most kids have the latest fad in phones


 You can unlock an I-phone, set it up with a pay as you go provider, and it cost the same per month as my $9 piece of junk flip phone. My kids have done it for years. So, assuming that a smart phone is a waste is incorrect. My kid spend $30 a month of her own money to keep her I-phone going. Her roomate's parents spend $120 month to keep their little princess happy. Same phone, big difference.


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## countryfied2011 (Jul 5, 2011)

> There is a big difference between a few night classes, and having a full 18 credit, five day a week schedule of classes and labs


yes there is... accelerated classes are harder because you don't have as much time as if you attended a traditional college. Accelerated college semester is only 6 to 8 weeks versus 12 weeks. So what your son did in 18 hrs, my daughter did in less including labs.

i'm not going argue over it..you earn your money and however you see fit to spend it is your peragative(?)....in the grand scheme of things is has no effect on my life..will respectfully agree to disagree..

Have a good day~


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## jwal10 (Jun 5, 2010)

Our daughter went to school full time and got her degree and is teaching now, she is 27. Son is 24 living on his own, working and taking some classes to get his degree. Both doing the same job, his is 1/2 time and also subs for others as needed. They both were on our insurance until 23, and we supported them the same as when they were going to high school, basic food, clothes, etc until they moved out. They got jobs at 16, paid for the extras (yes a cell phone is an extra, I don't have one) and saved money to become independent. We helped with gas as needed.

We worked as a team, they did their own laundry and kept their rooms, helped with housecleaning and meals since they were 8. We looked at all aspects and if it was cheaper for us to help, we did. They were responsible to make their own decisions on what they wanted to do, they never took advantage. We haven't helped pay for their edcucations, they didn't ask. Daughter moved out at 20, Son just got his cabin finished but he lived in his Grandmothers basement for 2 years to help her be able to live in her own home until her stroke. He pays his own way now....James


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## Wendy (May 10, 2002)

> Don't know where you get this idea? Cell phones are no longer an option for most kids, or young adults. Both of my kids live at their schools. Land lines are no longer an option, and being unreachable isn't either. As parents I expect to be able to reach my kids in the event of an emergency. Employers expect to be able to reach them quickly also. ( my daughter picks up dozens of hours a month by being reliable and available at a moments notice, when her employer needs a quick replacement for a flake who failed to show up for their shift, Tough to do without a cell phone, eh?) As my son finishes his engineering degree, I can't imagine him telling interviewers from multi-national companies that he doesn't have a cell phone because it isn't necessary in today's world. In an era where a lot of 20 YO kids have never sent or recieved a FAX, find Email to be a slow, irritating way for the elderly to communicate, and typically send thousands of text messages a month, calling cell phones a "want" is a decade or two behind the curve.


That's funny. I know quite a few people without cell phones & they manage to have a job & get along just fine. They are not a need. A need is something you can't live without. That would be shelter, food, water, & clothes. Everything besides those are wants, not needs. People think they can't live without them, but you can.

As far as getting ahold of someone in an emergency, that makes me laugh. That is usually the excuse people give for getting a cell phone. Yeah, really helped my niece to have hers when her car broke down. She had used all of her minutes texting & there she sat with no way to call. They are more for people who can't stand to know where & what their kids are doing 24/7. Shoot, I don't even know my son's cell phone off hand. I'd have to look up the number. 

Just because people can think of a million reasons to have a cell phone does not make them a necessity. That's why a lot of people can't live on a lower income. They can't do without all of those new fangled necessities.


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## Lizza (Nov 30, 2005)

Wendy said:


> That's funny. I know quite a few people without cell phones & they manage to have a job & get along just fine. They are not a need. A need is something you can't live without. That would be shelter, food, water, & clothes. Everything besides those are wants, not needs. People think they can't live without them, but you can.
> 
> As far as getting ahold of someone in an emergency, that makes me laugh. That is usually the excuse people give for getting a cell phone. Yeah, really helped my niece to have hers when her car broke down. She had used all of her minutes texting & there she sat with no way to call. They are more for people who can't stand to know where & what their kids are doing 24/7. Shoot, I don't even know my son's cell phone off hand. I'd have to look up the number.
> 
> Just because people can think of a million reasons to have a cell phone does not make them a necessity. That's why a lot of people can't live on a lower income. They can't do without all of those new fangled necessities.


Sort of. To be competitive in college and fresh out of college, having a decent cell phone and a good laptop computer are basically a need, not a want. Land lines seem to be going the way of pay phones. 

Are there people that survive without them? Of course. 15 years ago hardly anyone even carried a cell phone and we all got along fine. This isn't 15 years ago though and you would be hard pressed to find a student without a smart phone on a college campus, let alone a flip phone. 

As to your niece, we have unlimited texting and minutes.


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## Molly Mckee (Jul 8, 2006)

The "need" for a cell phone depends on where you live. If you live in a very rural area and drive roads that are not well traveled they certainly are a very good idea. If you hunt, cut wood, ride a horse, hike or a other outdoor activities they are very good to have. When I am here alone and I go down to the barn, I carry my phone. I would certainly want my child to have one, especially a daughter, if she was in school and working at night or driving alone. It's just safer. There are very few pay phones now and people don't stop to help very often as they assume you have a phone.


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## Terri (May 10, 2002)

Molly Mckee said:


> The "need" for a cell phone depends on where you live. If you live in a very rural area and drive roads that are not well traveled they certainly are a very good idea. If you hunt, cut wood, ride a horse, hike or a other outdoor activities they are very good to have. When I am here alone and I go down to the barn, I carry my phone. I would certainly want my child to have one, especially a daughter, if she was in school and working at night or driving alone. It's just safer. There are very few pay phones now and people don't stop to help very often as they assume you have a phone.


BINGO!

You said it better than I could. Both of my kids carry a very basic cell phone.

And, the 2 times my daughter used up her time I ROASTED her! Her phone does not shut off when her minutes have been used: instead it costs more.


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## countryfied2011 (Jul 5, 2011)

I think there is a need for cellphones...otoh I dont think we have to have the best of best....that is a "want". You can rarely find a payphone and a lot of places have policies that their phones are not for public use. 

I worked nights for 17 yrs driving the back roads part of the way....so I had a cellphone up until I retired last July. We both gave up our phones because I hated paying 175.00 a month to Verizon and we have to keep our land line because of the security system...It was a no brainier--get rid of cellphones and get a tracphone which cost us 10.00 month....but now I have lost that somewhere and we have no cell. We haven't missed it so I havent bought another yet....however since we go out on the boat a lot I will get another one this summer. Yeah we all survived yrs ago when there werent any cellphones...but you have to admit when you needed to call someone it was a pain to try and find a payphone...or not have the correct change.

I do have a pet peeve about cellphones though....I dont think you have to be talking or texting on them 24/7 though...drives me nuts to stand in line somewhere and someone is talking on the phone behind me or while they are checking out....:hair and it is so rude to be texting while carrying on a conversation with someone. Ok that is bunny trail for another topic...lol


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## rambler (Jan 20, 2004)

If you take your whole life, and divide it by the education, food, shelter, transportation, health care, taxes, and savings one needs - 

No, you cannot live in today's society on $1000 per month in today's dollars.

Perhaps one got some free help from parents, govt assistance, windfall inheritance, or some such, and after that can live on $1000 a month; but that is not accuratly accounting things, you need to look at a long period of time, and your real incomes and expenses over that long period of time.

Now, if you come into a certain place in your life where you have a place paid for, have your basic transportation and setp paid for and are healthy, then at that point in time, you can easily live on $1000 per month. For that time period.

All depends what stage of life you are at, and if you happen to be a frugal prepared type of person, or not.

--->Paul

Edit: Just read more of the thread, cell phones, ick! Device of the devil, so glad I don't have to have one for kids or job. Hate the things. Certainly I see their value or need in many cases, but just hate the things for myself.... I kept all such frills out of my list, but housing, transportation, health care, food, education, transportation are all going to be real costs to everyone, and have pretty set costs to _someone_ and affect everyone. You need tools if you grow your own food and land to use, someone needs to pay for basic education, you don't have to have a car but at some point in your life you will need to be mobile, and so on.


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## Wendy (May 10, 2002)

I have a cell phone. Basic phone, no texting. My son has a cell phone that he bought & pays for. I have my old tracfone for any of the kids if they have an afterschool activity, so they can call me. I wouldn't say they are a need though. We could get by without them. We couldn't live without a landline as we have no cell reception at our house. Also, a lot of the area I drive in does not have cell service. Depends on where you are.


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## gabbyraja (Feb 27, 2012)

We are a family of 7 living on just over twice that, so I guess my answer is yes?


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## Lizza (Nov 30, 2005)

Wendy said:


> I have a cell phone. Basic phone, no texting. My son has a cell phone that he bought & pays for. I have my old tracfone for any of the kids if they have an afterschool activity, so they can call me. I wouldn't say they are a need though. We could get by without them. We couldn't live without a landline as we have no cell reception at our house. Also, a lot of the area I drive in does not have cell service. Depends on where you are.


You could get by without them but sending a kid off to the University without a cell phone? No, I don't think they could. It is like asking you to get by without your landline, your landline does not depend on your survival but it would be hard to get along without it I'm assuming. This carries over to a University student, asking them to do without a decent cell phone (doesn't have to be anything fancy) is like asking you to get by without your landline. 

My daughters is her lifeline to all her clubs, sorority, activities, classes, class schedule, calender, etcetera. Cell phones are the only way that most of these things even communicate. Plus she drives 30 minutes on rural highways to get to school everyday. Her phone also has GPS and directions (she gets lost easily), she drives all over the State doing various activities. 

I stand by what I said, of course _some_ people, even many people, could get by without one but a University student is not one of them. I suppose that comes back to then who will pay for it, for us, I pay for my daughters. She pays for school and gas and I pay for everything else.


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## Lizza (Nov 30, 2005)

I suppose I will add, I could get along without a cell phone. It would kind of suck because like others said there really aren't very many pay phones anymore and since literally everyone has cell phones no one would stop if you were stranded on the side of the road, plus I am just use to having a cell phone at this point and it would be a bummer to not be able to get in contact with my husband or family when I needed to. I don't have anything fancy. 

Our other older daughter has a trackphone, she uses hardly any minutes (she's 16). She doesn't drive yet. 

My husband could not get along without one, he has to have a smart phone for our business, and it would not be possible for him to run our business from the field without it. For him it is a need, not a want.


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## Evons hubby (Oct 3, 2005)

Wolf mom said:


> I work with elders that live on an average of $700.00 a month including rent (subsidized). And of course, living in an apartment and very old with arthritis, etc, it's difficult to grow your own food.
> 
> When you have to make a choice between going blind (getting macular degeneration shots) and getting dentures life is not fun anymore.


Well, given the choice of the shots or dentures.... thats pretty much a nobrainer.... get the shots... teeth are highly over rated. I have a set of dentures.... I know I do coz they cost me somewhere around 800 bucks back in 05... they are around here somewhere, they have to be.... I know they are coz I wouldnt have thrown them away but I havent seen them in a long time. 

As to that last part... life not being fun anymore... where the heck is it written that life is sposed to be fun? Life is life, lotsa work, sweat, pain and sorrow.... if you manage to find a bit of fun here and there thats great but there certainly are no guarantees!


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## Evons hubby (Oct 3, 2005)

morningstar said:


> You could get by without them but sending a kid off to the University without a cell phone? No, I don't think they could. It is like asking you to get by without your landline, your landline does not depend on your survival but it would be hard to get along without it I'm assuming. This carries over to a University student, asking them to do without a decent cell phone (doesn't have to be anything fancy) is like asking you to get by without your landline.
> 
> My daughters is her lifeline to all her clubs, sorority, activities, classes, class schedule, calender, etcetera. Cell phones are the only way that most of these things even communicate. Plus she drives 30 minutes on rural highways to get to school everyday. Her phone also has GPS and directions (she gets lost easily), she drives all over the State doing various activities.
> 
> I stand by what I said, of course _some_ people, even many people, could get by without one but a University student is not one of them. I suppose that comes back to then who will pay for it, for us, I pay for my daughters. She pays for school and gas and I pay for everything else.


When I went to college we didnt have cellphones. But then I already knew my class schedule, and we had a good system for finding out about all those social activities too... we called it a bulletin board. I also knew how to find my way around with another old fashioned device... it was called a road map. :shrug:


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## Lizza (Nov 30, 2005)

Yvonne's hubby said:


> When I went to college we didnt have cellphones. But then I already knew my class schedule, and we had a good system for finding out about all those social activities too... we called it a bulletin board. I also knew how to find my way around with another old fashioned device... it was called a road map. :shrug:


What year was that


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## Annsni (Oct 27, 2006)

Yvonne's hubby said:


> When I went to college we didnt have cellphones. But then I already knew my class schedule, and we had a good system for finding out about all those social activities too... we called it a bulletin board. I also knew how to find my way around with another old fashioned device... it was called a road map. :shrug:


But where can you find a road map nowadays? Not at gas stations anymore!

Often times, colleges don't have bulletin boards with info unless you mean the online kind.

Additionally, you can't find pay phones anywhere so if someone gets stuck and you don't have a cell, you're SOL.

Finally, professors now do a LOT online and will text for class changes/assignments, etc. 

A cell phone is important to me and as close to a necessity one can get - but it doesn't mean one needs to pay $170 a month for it. Hubby and I have "pay by the minute/text" and we spend about $7 a month total. My daughters have Virgin Mobile and pay $35 a month for unlimited texting, unlimited data and 300 minutes. There is just no reason for us to spend more than that in our family.


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## Evons hubby (Oct 3, 2005)

morningstar said:


> What year was that


That was in the dark ages... early 80s.


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## Annsni (Oct 27, 2006)

Yvonne's hubby said:


> That was in the dark ages... early 80s.


That was a completely different world back then! Now, forget being a college student without a computer.


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## Lizza (Nov 30, 2005)

double post


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## Lizza (Nov 30, 2005)

Yvonne's hubby said:


> That was in the dark ages... early 80s.


You may as well try to explain to them your cool 8 track player in your Gremlin


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## Evons hubby (Oct 3, 2005)

Annsni said:


> But where can you find a road map nowadays? Not at gas stations anymore!
> 
> Often times, colleges don't have bulletin boards with info unless you mean the online kind.
> 
> ...


Service stations are even rare these days... when was the last time you had a pump jockey check your oil?  A lot of stop and robs (convenience stores where we now get to pump our own gas) do carry road maps, but most of todays university students wouldnt know how to fold them... much less read them.  

As to getting stuck without a cellphone.... most folks have one... all you do is vary the theme I always used... Instead of walking to the nearest house and use their landline... you simply ask the nearest person walking by for help. Most folks I know will be happy to offer the use of their phone to one in trouble.


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## Annsni (Oct 27, 2006)

Yvonne's hubby said:


> Service stations are even rare these days... when was the last time you had a pump jockey check your oil?  A lot of stop and robs (convenience stores where we now get to pump our own gas) do carry road maps, but most of todays university students wouldnt know how to fold them... much less read them.


Have you seen their cost? They are really expensive and not worth purchasing if I already have an app on my phone. 



> As to getting stuck without a cellphone.... most folks have one... all you do is vary the theme I always used... Instead of walking to the nearest house and use their landline... you simply ask the nearest person walking by for help. Most folks I know will be happy to offer the use of their phone to one in trouble.


That's assuming anyone is around....


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## Evons hubby (Oct 3, 2005)

morningstar said:


> You may as well try to explain to them your cool 8 track player in your Gremlin


8 tracks were great werent they?  I never had much use for a Gremlin... I liked real cars.... something with at least a 440 hemi to kick it down the road.


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## Evons hubby (Oct 3, 2005)

Annsni said:


> Have you seen their cost? They are really expensive and not worth purchasing if I already have an app on my phone.
> 
> 
> 
> That's assuming anyone is around....


Yep, I bought a couple last month while touring the great American west... 5 bucks each! My Yvonne had her Iphone and Ipad... which were both pretty much useless when there was no signal. My road maps were far more useful. 

There is always someone around... dont believe me? Try dealing out a hand of solitaire.... within minutes some jerk will magically appear, telling you to play the black ten on the red jack!


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## Annsni (Oct 27, 2006)

Yvonne's hubby said:


> Yep, I bought a couple last month while touring the great American west... 5 bucks each! My Yvonne had her Iphone and Ipad... which were both pretty much useless when there was no signal. My road maps were far more useful.


Man - I want to be where you are!! They are ridiculous around here!

Why were the iPad and iPhone useless? There is still Google maps that should show local streets even without a signal. Basically, an online map.



> There is always someone around... dont believe me? Try dealing out a hand of solitaire.... within minutes some jerk will magically appear, telling you to play the black ten on the red jack!


LOL - Yeah, not in some areas of the country at 2 am!


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## vanet (Aug 30, 2011)

I dont really understand the argument for having a cell phone. If it is for an emergency, and you are far enough out, that there is no one around, then the cell wont have a signal anyway. THEY are definatly a want, not a need. That being said, for as cheap as they are, doesnt make sense not to have one.


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## Evons hubby (Oct 3, 2005)

Annsni said:


> That was a completely different world back then! Now, forget being a college student without a computer.


It was the same world really... we just had different toys. The basics are still the same... people need to eat, and have some place to sleep... beyond that its mostly toys and luxuries justified by myriad of creative of excuses as to why we "need" them.


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## Evons hubby (Oct 3, 2005)

Annsni said:


> Man - I want to be where you are!! They are ridiculous around here!
> 
> Why were the iPad and iPhone useless? There is still Google maps that should show local streets even without a signal. Basically, an online map.


I bought them in California... Sacramento as I recall. I dont know much about todays gadgets.... How do you connect to the internet without a connection? Our toys all require a signal. :shrug:


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## Lizza (Nov 30, 2005)

You know it depends on what you define as "need". 

Do we want a business? Yes, it pays our bills. For that business you have to have smart phone, it's like saying why does a plumber need all those tools? It is just a tool, one that is needed in our modern society. 

Same with University kids, they don't _have_ to go college but they better have the right tools if they are going to go.


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## Evons hubby (Oct 3, 2005)

vanet said:


> I dont really understand the argument for having a cell phone. If it is for an emergency, and you are far enough out, that there is no one around, then the cell wont have a signal anyway. THEY are definatly a want, not a need. That being said, for as cheap as they are, doesnt make sense not to have one.


Lots of people do need them.... I used to need one when I was working the real estate game... It meant the difference between making a paycheck and not making a paycheck lots of times. When it quit making me money... I quit paying for the nasty thing.


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## Evons hubby (Oct 3, 2005)

morningstar said:


> You know it depends on what you define as "need".
> 
> Do we want a business? Yes, it pays our bills. For that business you have to have smart phone, it's like saying why does a plumber need all those tools? It is just a tool, one that is needed in our modern society.
> 
> Same with University kids, they don't _have_ to go college but they better have the right tools if they are going to go.


This is true. But have you noticed how much most university kids use that tool for its actual needs, compared to how much they use it for nonsense?


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## Lizza (Nov 30, 2005)

Yvonne's hubby said:


> This is true. But have you noticed how much most university kids use that tool for its actual needs, compared to how much they use it for nonsense?


Oh, well that is an entirely other subject 

Kids are kids are kids I suppose. Doesn't make the tool less needed though.


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## Annsni (Oct 27, 2006)

vanet said:


> I dont really understand the argument for having a cell phone. If it is for an emergency, and you are far enough out, that there is no one around, then the cell wont have a signal anyway. THEY are definatly a want, not a need. That being said, for as cheap as they are, doesnt make sense not to have one.


Actually, this is not true. We have a sailboat and we dismasted a number of years ago. It was almost November so no one was around. Our mast was in the water so no radio. We used the cell phone and thank God we had it!!

I've also been well in the middle of nowhere and had cell service while driving. As long as there is a tower, you have service. You don't need "civilization" for a tower.


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## Annsni (Oct 27, 2006)

Yvonne's hubby said:


> How do you connect to the internet without a connection? Our toys all require a signal. :shrug:


No need for the internet to view maps on the iPad or my iPod Touch.


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## vanet (Aug 30, 2011)

Annsni said:


> Actually, this is not true. We have a sailboat and we dismasted a number of years ago. It was almost November so no one was around. Our mast was in the water so no radio. We used the cell phone and thank God we had it!!
> 
> I've also been well in the middle of nowhere and had cell service while driving. As long as there is a tower, you have service. You don't need "civilization" for a tower.


I dont know where you were. Probably in a marina in New York or something. I can drive 5 minutes out of town in any direction. And the cell phone signal is gone. You are right that all you need is a tower. BUT they dont put towers out in the middle of nowhere, they cost money and there is no one out there to use them. This is probably hard for you folks back east to understand. But out west we have true wilderness areas, and if you live in a rural setting those wilderness areas often start as soon as you leave town.:shocked:


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## SilverFlame819 (Aug 24, 2010)

We sell a lot of road maps where I work. I always ask people why they're buying them, because I'm curious, since everyone seems to have GPS these days. The usual response is that they are taking a trip, but don't want to take the main roads - they want to see the country they're passing through, and hit up the small towns, and GPS usually just takes you the swiftest, most boring way. The strangest answer I've ever gotten was a guy who wanted to hit up every hot spring on his way from here to his destination, so was looking them up and highlighting them on the map... GPS sure won't tell you how to get to all the hot springs on your route! 

I LOVE road maps. I want one of the giant, spiral-bound Rand McNallys with the laminated pages. Ohhhhhhhh, yeah!


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## notbutanapron (Jun 30, 2011)

Yvonne's hubby said:


> Service stations are even rare these days... *when was the last time you had a pump jockey check your oil*?  A lot of stop and robs (convenience stores where we now get to pump our own gas) do carry road maps, but most of todays university students wouldnt know how to fold them... much less read them.
> 
> As to getting stuck without a cellphone.... most folks have one... all you do is vary the theme I always used... Instead of walking to the nearest house and use their landline... you simply ask the nearest person walking by for help. Most folks I know will be happy to offer the use of their phone to one in trouble.


Two weeks ago. I was in utter shock. It was the only station and we were running out of petrol and this place was TWENTY cents dearer than the last one we saw. When the guy came out in his overalls with the rag in the back pocket saying 'ma'am' and 'sir' and pumped our petrol for us.... well, I nearly paid him double. Man, they need to bring that stuff back. I felt important.


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## Annsni (Oct 27, 2006)

vanet said:


> I dont know where you were. Probably in a marina in New York or something.


Now, first of all, how would we dismast in a mariana? Secondly, why would we worry about calling someone if we were actually at the marina?

No, we were in the middle of the Long Island Sound.


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## Guest (Jan 21, 2013)

I remember that time my yacht broke. It was the worst 5 minutes of my life!! I had the butler bring me a bottle of 1789 Chateau Rothschild and gave him the broke yacht as a tip.


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## Annsni (Oct 27, 2006)

zong said:


> I remember that time my yacht broke. It was the worst 5 minutes of my life!! I had the butler bring me a bottle of 1789 Chateau Rothschild and gave him the broke yacht as a tip.


Hahahahaha! Funny. 

Yes, we have a sailboat. Some have a vacation house. We have a large sailboat. We race, we live on it during the summer - things like that.  Doesn't mean we're rolling in dough. It just means that we made an investment in something that is enjoyable for the family. And in the last 10 years we've owned it, we've actually increased it's value! Not bad!


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## Evons hubby (Oct 3, 2005)

notbutanapron said:


> Two weeks ago. I was in utter shock. It was the only station and we were running out of petrol and this place was TWENTY cents dearer than the last one we saw. When the guy came out in his overalls with the rag in the back pocket saying 'ma'am' and 'sir' and pumped our petrol for us.... well, I nearly paid him double. Man, they need to bring that stuff back. I felt important.


Our little town in the middle of nowhere still has a full service station... and yes, you can still save a dime by pulling up to the self serve island... which I never do. I dont mind paying an extra buck per fillup to have the guys available to take care of my needs when the weather is crummy. The old system provides those guys with a job. It doesnt really make me feel special, but it is nice to not have to pump my own gas when the wind is blowing snow or pouring down rain. But then I leave a waitress a hefty tip too, or the guy/gal at the hardware store who goes out of their way to make my shopping ordeal less of an ordeal.... personal service deserves to be paid for, not so much as a wage thing... but to let them know that you recognize and appreciate those "extras" they provide.


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## countryfied2011 (Jul 5, 2011)

> Doesn't mean we're rolling in dough. It just means that we made an investment in something that is enjoyable for the family


Us either..We have a 21ft 2009 Suntracker Pontoon....and your right it is the best investment we ever made.....we love going out on the lake and tuning the world out. We find a spot, anchor and spend the whole day eating, fishing and floating on floats in the water..just me and DH. We have spent our 17 yrs together working, saving etc..that expense was our return on hard work, our retirement present. Best thing about it is its paid for and the lake is about 5 miles away~


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## Annsni (Oct 27, 2006)

countryfied2011 said:


> Us either..We have a 21ft 2009 Suntracker Pontoon....and your right it is the best investment we ever made.....we love going out on the lake and tuning the world out. We find a spot, anchor and spend the whole day eating, fishing and floating on floats in the water..just me and DH. We have spent our 17 yrs together working, saving etc..that expense was our return on hard work, our retirement present. Best thing about it is its paid for and the lake is about 5 miles away~


That's awesome! We live a mile from the boat and we use it from the first weekend in April to the first weekend in November. We have the BEST memories from our time on it and even this past summer, we spent 3 weeks away on it going out to Martha's Vineyard, Block Island and areas in between. Who went? My whole family including my 22 and 20 year old daughters. What a blast!

This is a '96 Catalina 42 MkII. We bought it in Florida for a SONG and sailed it from Tampa, through the Keys and up to Fort Lauderdale when my now 10 year old was just 4 months old (she's our youngest). Right now, 10 years later, I realized that we can sell it for $50,000 more than we paid for it! Cool!! In the meantime, the times we've had on it have more than made up for any costs we incur (which is surprisingly not too much - less than if we took my family of 6 on a vacation for a week!).


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## Evons hubby (Oct 3, 2005)

Annsni said:


> Hahahahaha! Funny.
> 
> Yes, we have a sailboat. Some have a vacation house. We have a large sailboat. We race, we live on it during the summer - things like that.  Doesn't mean we're rolling in dough. It just means that we made an investment in something that is enjoyable for the family. And in the last 10 years we've owned it, we've actually increased it's value! Not bad!


Maybe you could give me some tips to help me increase the value of my little gem?


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## Annsni (Oct 27, 2006)

Yvonne's hubby said:


> Maybe you could give me some tips to help me increase the value of my little gem?


You TOTALLY need refrigeration and air conditioning!! What a difference that makes in resale value!


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## Evons hubby (Oct 3, 2005)

Annsni said:


> You TOTALLY need refrigeration and air conditioning!! What a difference that makes in resale value!


One beer cooler and fan... coming up! Thanks


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## Cindy in NY (May 10, 2002)

Yvonne's hubby said:


> When I went to college we didnt have cellphones. But then I already knew my class schedule, and we had a good system for finding out about all those social activities too... we called it a bulletin board. I also knew how to find my way around with another old fashioned device... it was called a road map. :shrug:


I'm probably a little bit older than you. Started college in 77. We did even have phones in our rooms. There was a pay phone in the hall. If you wanted to speak to someone, you walked across campus to see them!


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## countryfied2011 (Jul 5, 2011)

Cindy in NY said:


> I'm probably a little bit older than you. Started college in 77. We did even have phones in our rooms. There was a pay phone in the hall. If you wanted to speak to someone, you walked across campus to see them!


I remember party lines...does that mean I am older than you?


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## notbutanapron (Jun 30, 2011)

Uphill both ways, gran? :nana:

My husband and I are doing well at the moment. Which is why I want to live off a thousand a month. I know it won't be like this forever so I want to cut down all my bills while we're earning good money with our health behind us [as hubby has a dangerous job] so I can retire early and/or not worry about my future so much. Living on a thousand a month is a great goal, so I look forward to cutting out all our excesses like this thread has shown.  Then we can save up for a property or some other investments we've gotten underground lately we think is a good one.

It's a good idea to try to live on little as possible overall, I think, no matter how many yachts you own.


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## Evons hubby (Oct 3, 2005)

Cindy in NY said:


> I'm probably a little bit older than you. Started college in 77. We did even have phones in our rooms. There was a pay phone in the hall. If you wanted to speak to someone, you walked across campus to see them!


I took a few years off between high school and going to college. 14 or 15 if I remember right, but yes, telephones were not common back then, and I grew up with "party lines"... which referred to telephone service back then, not white powder on a mirror! Telephones were about as rare as bathrooms... basically one shared at the end of the hall.... or at the end of a 50 yard path.


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## Evons hubby (Oct 3, 2005)

notbutanapron said:


> Uphill both ways, gran? :nana:


yeppers, uphill both ways,,, and if it was anything like where I was.... the wind blew the snow just as hard each way.... always in yer face.


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## countryfied2011 (Jul 5, 2011)

> It's a good idea to try to live on little as possible overall, I think, no matter how many yachts you own.


The end of 2007 I started having these funny feelings that things just weren't right with the country....DH and I have always been fortunate to make good money in our careers and then with our fence business and even though we saved we spent too. I decided that I wanted to see just what I could get rid of as far as expenses, besides the fact I really got tired of lining other peoples/corporations pockets...so for the year of 2008 I really became Ms Frugal...lol for the whole year. Now that I know I can live without it gives me a piece of mind that we would survive on less....I still follow a lot of the things I did that year...but I do like my conveniences and knowing that if we want to buy something we can. Its funny when DH and I met...he was the penny pincher and I was the spender...now after 17 yrs..I am the penny pincher and he is the one that wants to spend....but there is nothing really at our age that we want that we havent already bought and paid for...now we are just enjoying our retirement on our farm..


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## notbutanapron (Jun 30, 2011)

Yvonne's hubby said:


> I took a few years off between high school and going to college. 14 or 15 if I remember right, but yes, telephones were not common back then, and I grew up with "party lines"... which referred to telephone service back then, not white powder on a mirror! Telephones were about as rare as bathrooms... basically one shared at the end of the hall.... or at the end of a 50 yard path.


Was watching one of Andy Warhol's pieces. He made a three hour movie of that Nico chick holding up a small mirror and cutting her fringe/doing her makeup. That small mirror had an awful lot of tiny tiny thin straight cracks in it.  The 70s, huh?


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## Evons hubby (Oct 3, 2005)

notbutanapron said:


> Was watching one of Andy Warhol's pieces. He made a three hour movie of that Nico chick holding up a small mirror and cutting her fringe/doing her makeup. That small mirror had an awful lot of tiny tiny thin straight cracks in it.  The 70s, huh?


Being a young adult when the 70s rolled around... (graduated HS in 69) I really dont remember much about them.  I have been told they were some great times though!


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## countryfied2011 (Jul 5, 2011)

> I have been told they were some great times though!


I seem to recall something like that also...I graduated in HS 74


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## Townsurvivor (Jan 11, 2013)

Hi; I am new here and have been doing a lot of reading and find this all very interesting. I live in an upstairs apartment alone with my cat.When looking for an apartment I found one with a south facing door and bedroom window. The kitchen is west facing and catches the later day sun. Heat rises so I wanted to live upstairs. My income is $970 a month. I pay $375 a month rent.

Heat is electric. In the winter I only heat the bedroom and am careful with lights and cooking. The house is well insulated and the temperature in the unheated rooms goes to about 45F at the coldest and stays around 60 F the rest of the time.I have insulated curtains to the windows and the spare bedroom and living room closed for the winter. If I bake the kitchen warms up.

I turned the hotwater heater down to 100 degrees just above body temperature so I don't freeze taking a shower. If I want a bath I heat water to boiling in a tea kettle to add to the bath water. Being this careful my power bill averages $100 every two months in the winter and less in the warm months.. 

I spend $200 a month for food and other things like cat food, toilet paper etc. In the summer I grow some potted herbs and lettuce in pots on the balcony and buy vegetables at the local farmers market to can and freeze.I don't eat meat but do eat cheese, eggs and milk.I buy toilet paper , dish liquid, soap etc only when on sale. This year I saved up and bought flour, oats and oil in bulk which saved a lot. Clothes are mainly second hand from thrift shops as is anything else I might need.

I save $200 a month to put toward buying a piece of land in the country. $150 a month is extra for emergenicies or if I choose to go on a bus trip somewhere. 

I hve no debts, no credit cards, no vehicle or insurance of any kind. I am living quite comfortable but it takes careful planning, being frugal and self discipline not to spend beyond what I can afford.

My long term plan is to own land in the country and live there part time and back in town in the winter. That way I could have a garden . It would be a place to go if the economy fails too. Not driving it isn't feaseible to be in the country full time.

I am finding all the different ideas and variety of life styles people talk about on HST very helpful and interesting.


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## Townsurvivor (Jan 11, 2013)

Hi, I am new to this site and tried to reply to the post here but some how deleted my self! So I will start again. 

I live alone with my cat in an apartment. My income is $975 a month. Rent is $375. Heat is electric and lights I pay extra for. The electric bill is a $100 every two months in the winter and less in the summer. I only heat the bedroom in the winter and close the spare room and living room off until Spring. The only heat in the kitchen is from when I bake and cook. Even so the temperature is never below 45 F on the coldest day and 60F the rest of the time. I have insulated curtains to all the windows and over the living room door. The one room I heat I keep at about 65 F.. I turned the hot water heater down to 100 degrees F and had tea kettles of hot water for a bath. When moving I chose an upstairs apartment with some west and south windows. Upstairs there is more sun and heat comes up from below.

I spend $200 a month for food and incindentals such as toilet paper washing powder etc. and cat food. I bought flour, oats and oil in bulk and vegetables from the farmer's market this summer. Those I canned and froze for winter. Also I planted some herbs and lettuce in pots on the balcony. I have a small apartment size freezer. Washing is done by hand and clothes dried on a rack set in the tub and outside on the balcony in the summer.

I save $200 a month towards buying some land in the country and the remaining$150 is for emergencies or if I want to go somewhere on the bus. I have no debts, credit or credit cards, insurance or other payments. I find I can live quite well by being very careful and sticking to my budget. I had to learn self discipline with spending though.

I find this site very helpful and interesting and am learning a lot.My long term goal is to have a place in the country to live Spring to Fall and have a garden. Winters would be too difficult without a vehicle . It is interesting all the different lifestyles people on this site have. I am looking forward to learning more.


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## emdeengee (Apr 20, 2010)

Townsurvivor said:


> Hi, I am new to this site and tried to reply to the post here but some how deleted my self! So I will start again.
> 
> I live alone with my cat in an apartment. My income is $975 a month. Rent is $375. Heat is electric and lights I pay extra for. The electric bill is a $100 every two months in the winter and less in the summer. I only heat the bedroom in the winter and close the spare room and living room off until Spring. The only heat in the kitchen is from when I bake and cook. Even so the temperature is never below 45 F on the coldest day and 60F the rest of the time. I have insulated curtains to all the windows and over the living room door. The one room I heat I keep at about 65 F.. I turned the hot water heater down to 100 degrees F and had tea kettles of hot water for a bath. When moving I chose an upstairs apartment with some west and south windows. Upstairs there is more sun and heat comes up from below.
> 
> ...


You are saving about 35% of your income for emergencies and to buy land which is absolutely incredible. But what about healthcare?

Wishing you every success in buying your land in the country. Be sure to check out the tightwad tips - lots of great ideas.


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## Cindy in NY (May 10, 2002)

countryfied2011 said:


> I remember party lines...does that mean I am older than you?


Not sure about that! We had a party line at church until just a couple years ago (no one else was on it)! We still have a rotary phone in the fellowship hall!


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## Sawmill Jim (Dec 5, 2008)

Cindy in NY said:


> Not sure about that! We had a party line at church until just a couple years ago (no one else was on it)! We still have a rotary phone in the fellowship hall!


:hijacked: Well i still have the hand crank phone off the wall out of the house where i was born :icecream:


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## Townsurvivor (Jan 11, 2013)

emdeengee said:


> You are saving about 35% of your income for emergencies and to buy land which is absolutely incredible. But what about healthcare?
> 
> Wishing you every success in buying your land in the country. Be sure to check out the tightwad tips - lots of great ideas.


emdeengee; Thankyou for your comment. In Canada health care is paid for in the 15% sales tax we pay on all goods and services except food and medicine. The system is not perfect but if there is an emergency such as an accident or opperation it is paid for.'We do have a shortage of doctors and long waits in outpatients at the hospital.

Medicince is not covered but there are discounts for seniors and other special cases such as those on welfare. The system isn't perfect but does covers basic health concerns.The dentist and eye doctor is not covered either or such things as chriopractors or orthodic foot care. I wear glasses so the cost comes out of my emergency fund. So far I have managed to stay well and avoid doctors and hospitals.An ounce of prevention is priceless!

I try to stay well by eataing healthy, exercising and getting enough sleep.


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## vanet (Aug 30, 2011)

I wanted to comment on Insurance. Everyone keeps acting like if you dont have x amout of several different kinds of insurance you are somehow not makeing it or are not responsible. Stop and think for a moment what insurance is. They are betting something will happen to you. The amount of the bet is your monthly payment. They win more than 90% of the time. That is why they are the richest industry in the world. Would you go to Vegas and play a game over and over again with your hard earned money that you knew was heavily stacked against you? It doesnt make any sense. Take all the money you pay to insurance and put it in savings. If nothing happens to you in a few years, and there is better than a 90% chance it wont you will have enough to cover what you would need from the insurance company. We are all paranoid these days. Insurance is a relativly new concept to bilk people out of money and give nothing in return. I applaud people who are responsible enough to save there money instead of giving it to the modern day con men the insurance company.

By the way I am a licensed insurance agent in the state of AZ, although it is not how I make my living.


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## Annsni (Oct 27, 2006)

vanet said:


> I wanted to comment on Insurance. Everyone keeps acting like if you dont have x amout of several different kinds of insurance you are somehow not makeing it or are not responsible. Stop and think for a moment what insurance is. They are betting something will happen to you. The amount of the bet is your monthly payment. They win more than 90% of the time. That is why they are the richest industry in the world. Would you go to Vegas and play a game over and over again with your hard earned money that you knew was heavily stacked against you? It doesnt make any sense. Take all the money you pay to insurance and put it in savings. If nothing happens to you in a few years, and there is better than a 90% chance it wont you will have enough to cover what you would need from the insurance company. We are all paranoid these days. Insurance is a relativly new concept to bilk people out of money and give nothing in return. I applaud people who are responsible enough to save there money instead of giving it to the modern day con men the insurance company.
> 
> By the way I am a licensed insurance agent in the state of AZ, although it is not how I make my living.


We have gotten back our insurance payments a hundredfold in medical bill coverage.


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## vanet (Aug 30, 2011)

Annsni said:


> We have gotten back our insurance payments a hundredfold in medical bill coverage.


I am sure you have, but according to statistic, for everyone that does there are 9 others that dont. Where do you think they got the money to pay you.


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## Annsni (Oct 27, 2006)

vanet said:


> I am sure you have, but according to statistic, for everyone that does there are 9 others that dont. Where do you think they got the money to pay you.


And I've learned well - there are no life guarantees. I know many families who have gone completely bankrupt because of medical bills. So we all pay in and use that for those who need it AND know it's there just in case we need it too.


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## vanet (Aug 30, 2011)

The companies hope people keep thinking like you. I went to school to learn all the laws, and it appalled me what they are doing. If you really believe that we are all paying into a fund we can all draw from, start a Co-op. The reality is they pocket more than 70% of what is paid in. They have the largest best paid lobby of any industry (even guns) and they have stacked the deck so they can keep robbing people. It is like government, if people dont keep it in check, it will by nature take over everything. Insurance is legelized theft that we are all been conditioned to accept. Life is scary, people think they can take the fear out of it by paying in money to a company, you are byeing peace of mind. I understand, but realize it for what it is.


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## Annsni (Oct 27, 2006)

Doesn't matter to me. Like I said - what they have paid out in medical bills for my family far surpasses even when we were self-employed and had to pay out of our own pockets for insurance. It will take a LOT of years to reach the $175,000 my daughter's illness cost us less than 2 years ago. So I am happy to continue paying in.


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## notbutanapron (Jun 30, 2011)

My husband doesn't have the fancy healthcare like I do. He hates insurance, hilariously because his father is an insurance assessor [and he himself does an odd trailer job now and again]. Says the same things about insurance you do. _However_, he realizes my healthcare expenses are worth it _for me_. My husband would never and has never used them because, well, he has a bad habit of just taking care of things himself until his leg near falls off then he goes to a public hospital anyway and only if the leg is _really_ falling off and only if he can do it between jobs. Whereas I have a history of health problems and there was an instance where my private healthcare very realistically did save my life. So I have it, he doesn't. Also, seriously, insurance pays their assessors a lot for doing nothing much. what the?


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## vanet (Aug 30, 2011)

Most people dont realize it, but there are normally several prices for just about everything when it comes to healthcare.

One example: We had our first daughter the conventional way. all the check-ups, 2 day in the hospital etc. The bill was in the neighborhood of $10,000. When it came time for our second daughter we decided to have her at home. The doctor told us once he realized we wernt going through insurance, that unless my wife had an issue he didnt need o see her until about a month before delivery after the first exam. Imagine my shock. I asked him why with my other daughter they needed to see my wife weekly. He smiled and asked if we had insurance. I said we did, and he laughed and said there is your answer. Fast forward to the end of my wifes term. She just will not go into labor. After she is about 45 day over due they decide she needs to go into the hospital and be induced. I am paniced at this time, knowing we dont have insurance. I tell the hospital and doctor and they both say lets get her taken care of and we will worry about that later. FF to after the baby is born. I get a call from the hospital to come in and discuss the bill. After about 3 hours of checking to see if I qualified for any of the various state programs out there, and determined that we made too much money. the hospital takes the $14000 bill to some one in accounts payable and comes back with a $900 bill. I asked whats up, and they explain to me that they have different price scales for different situations. Not wanting them to change there mind, I paid the bill and left. Then we called the Doctor. He did pretty much the same thing. All told we paid about $1600 for the entire birth. I had a friend who had become a Doctor in another state, so I called him to find out what was up. He said it is vVERY common for health institutions to have a much lower "cash" price for there services. They have to call it that not to get in trouble with the insurance agents, even though the hospital asked me if I would need time to pay it. 

Long story short we have been negotiating our medical expenses ever since. That was in the late 80's we have had more than one major emergency includeing my son haveing to be air evaced 250 miles to a hospital and a 3 day stay. Bill would have been $22000 we paid cash and it was just over $2600. Everything is super overinflated because of insurance.

Another example happened just a week ago. My daughter needed a perscription. the gal at the Pharmacy was new and filled it and ask for my insurance. I told her I did have any so she asked me for mt ACCESS card (state insurance) I told her I wasnt on it and she didnt know what to do. I said get John (the owner)over here he will know. She said he was off and she couldnt get ahold of him, but I could have the meds if I paid $194. I asked her to hold on a minute, and called John on his cell. I gave the phone to her and 2 minutes later I walked out with the same bottle for $19.00. She refiled the sale, on the computer, as generic, even though she hadnt changed the meds at all.

These illnesses that are costing people millions of dollars are only costing that because of insurance.


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## emdeengee (Apr 20, 2010)

So who paid for the Medivac flight? The taxpayer? because at $2600 the cost of an Evac flight was not included in the bill for your sons 3 day hospital stay.


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## vanet (Aug 30, 2011)

Yes it was, have you ever bought a ticket to fly from show low to Phx. It runs just over $80. They charged me $220, almost 3 times the going rate. Ridiculous, but a lot less than the $4000 they were charging the Insurance company when they thought there was one.


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## Annsni (Oct 27, 2006)

vanet said:


> Most people dont realize it, but there are normally several prices for just about everything when it comes to healthcare.
> 
> One example: We had our first daughter the conventional way. all the check-ups, 2 day in the hospital etc. The bill was in the neighborhood of $10,000. When it came time for our second daughter we decided to have her at home. The doctor told us once he realized we wernt going through insurance, that unless my wife had an issue he didnt need o see her until about a month before delivery after the first exam. Imagine my shock. I asked him why with my other daughter they needed to see my wife weekly. He smiled and asked if we had insurance. I said we did, and he laughed and said there is your answer. Fast forward to the end of my wifes term. She just will not go into labor. After she is about 45 day over due they decide she needs to go into the hospital and be induced. I am paniced at this time, knowing we dont have insurance. I tell the hospital and doctor and they both say lets get her taken care of and we will worry about that later. FF to after the baby is born. I get a call from the hospital to come in and discuss the bill. After about 3 hours of checking to see if I qualified for any of the various state programs out there, and determined that we made too much money. the hospital takes the $14000 bill to some one in accounts payable and comes back with a $900 bill. I asked whats up, and they explain to me that they have different price scales for different situations. Not wanting them to change there mind, I paid the bill and left. Then we called the Doctor. He did pretty much the same thing. All told we paid about $1600 for the entire birth. I had a friend who had become a Doctor in another state, so I called him to find out what was up. He said it is vVERY common for health institutions to have a much lower "cash" price for there services. They have to call it that not to get in trouble with the insurance agents, even though the hospital asked me if I would need time to pay it.
> 
> ...


Just remember that what is billed and what they actually get from insurance is usually significantly different. Medicare only pays $3 for a regular doctor's office visit. The doctor will bill significantly more than that.

Often if you don't have insurance, you can ask for the negotiated rate if you will pay cash. Our pulmonologist did just that for my husband - his medicaid rate plus 10%. It was still $270 but much less than what he has to bill insurance to be able to actually make a living.


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## emdeengee (Apr 20, 2010)

vanet said:


> Yes it was, have you ever bought a ticket to fly from show low to Phx. It runs just over $80. They charged me $220, almost 3 times the going rate. Ridiculous, but a lot less than the $4000 they were charging the Insurance company when they thought there was one.


$220 for the plane (helicopter?), pilot(s), paramedic(s) and the liabiltiy? Sorry, but impossible to believe that someone else was not picking up the tab.


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## francismilker (Jan 12, 2006)

Back to the OP, I could easily live on $1000 per month and still save some cash but my wife could not. She's NOT high maintenance but enjoys the cable, cell phone, internet, and netflix very much. If it were just me, the house would get cold if the woodstove went out and it would be very muggy and warm when the wind wasn't blowing. She like the HVAC!!! (so do I!) HVAC likes electric and propane. 
During the garden months, I could live off of whatever I grow and kill. During the winter months, I'd eat lots of beans and cornbread, and stew. 

She likes those foods but would'nt want them everyday. I still think I'll keep her though!!! She's been taking care of me and putting up with me for over 20 years now so I'll just have to enjoy the luxuries of it!


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## Annsni (Oct 27, 2006)

emdeengee said:


> $220 for the plane (helicopter?), pilot(s), paramedic(s) and the liabiltiy? Sorry, but impossible to believe that someone else was not picking up the tab.


If someone has to be medivaced 250 miles? I am not sure how long that took but there is the salary to the pilot, having a specially equipped aircraft to be able to handle trauma patients (so you're talking all sorts of tanks, electronics, etc.), then there is at least one paramedic on board to keep constant watch over the patient. 

When my daughter was sent from one hospital to another via ambulance and she was medically fragile, the paramedic pretty much never took her eyes off of my daughter or the machines that were reading her vitals. She was constantly writing on a clipboard the stats, checking IV lines, etc. It took us an hour to get to the hospital. We ended up not getting billed at all - but her hospital bill was big enough to cover it anyway. But you can't tell me that $80 is enough to cover even the specialized care that was given during that flight!


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## Molly Mckee (Jul 8, 2006)

Around here it easily can cost $30,000.00 to move someone by air ambulance. For $60.00 a year you can join the support group and they will pick up the amount the insurance doesn't pay. You have to remember this is a flying ICU with at least one on one staffing, usually more. $200.00 doesn't get it off the ground.


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## CJ (May 10, 2002)

I don't see how this is possible. We have absolutely zero debt, and live in a low cost area (Arkansas), but our taxes and insurances alone cost well over a grand a month. Heck, Obama's required health insurance is $700 a month all on it's own. We don't "have" to carry homeowners or vehicle insurance since ours are paid for, but that would be rather risky not to.


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## vanet (Aug 30, 2011)

Molly Mckee said:


> Around here it easily can cost $30,000.00 to move someone by air ambulance. For $60.00 a year you can join the support group and they will pick up the amount the insurance doesn't pay. You have to remember this is a flying ICU with at least one on one staffing, usually more. $200.00 doesn't get it off the ground.


Will you guys listen to yourselves. Cost $30,000 for a 1 hour flight. Are you kidding. How would airlines ever make any money. For $60 a year you can join a group to cover what the insurance doesnt cover LOL. Another insurance company making a $60 dollar bet, that you will never collect on it. Think about it would they offer that if it really cost 30k to make the flight.:hrm: They do that to scare you into giving them money, and obviously it worked. We flew in a plane, that under normal circustances would have charged $80 for my wife to make the flight my son being a month old infant would have cost nothing. There was a paramedic that accompanied my wife and son. I know her well, she made at the time about$11.00/hr, (this was 13 years ago) he had stopped breathing, so there was a ventilation machine aboard. BUT the bottom line is they charged 3 times there normal price for the flight and no one else payed a dime. I was a shocked as you, the first time it happened, but I have been doing this for years. The inflated "costs" as you keep quoting are what has happened today because of insurance, and boy do they have you guys duped. Years ago, before insurance was a big deal, Doctors made about the same as other profesionals, ie teachers, equipment operators, carpenters etc. We have just let the system get so far out of wack, that now doctor make ten times what others do and hospitals are ridiculus. But again the big winners are the insurance companies. Look it up. They pocket 70% of what they take in, that is after they pay all there costs, like those giant buildings that line the landscape of all the major cities, and the lobbiests that are working so had to make sure it all stays legal. Do the math, by the time they pay everything and pocket all that profit, how much is left for the actual expenses?:hrm: You can believe me or not, and they dont want you to. But it has allowed my family to put a lot of cash in the bank over the years, and still have all the medical care we need. We have the money now to self insure and have saved as roughly as I can figure more than $300,000.00 over our lifetime that would have gone in an insurance companies pocket.:happy:


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## emdeengee (Apr 20, 2010)

vanet said:


> Will you guys listen to yourselves. Cost $30,000 for a 1 hour flight. Are you kidding. How would airlines ever make any money. For $60 a year you can join a group to cover what the insurance doesnt cover LOL. Another insurance company making a $60 dollar bet, that you will never collect on it. Think about it would they offer that if it really cost 30k to make the flight.:hrm: They do that to scare you into giving them money, and obviously it worked. We flew in a plane, that under normal circustances would have charged $80 for my wife to make the flight my son being a month old infant would have cost nothing. There was a paramedic that accompanied my wife and son. I know her well, she made at the time about$11.00/hr, (this was 13 years ago) he had stopped breathing, so there was a ventilation machine aboard. BUT the bottom line is they charged 3 times there normal price for the flight and no one else payed a dime. I was a shocked as you, the first time it happened, but I have been doing this for years. The inflated "costs" as you keep quoting are what has happened today because of insurance, and boy do they have you guys duped. Years ago, before insurance was a big deal, Doctors made about the same as other profesionals, ie teachers, equipment operators, carpenters etc. We have just let the system get so far out of wack, that now doctor make ten times what others do and hospitals are ridiculus. But again the big winners are the insurance companies. Look it up. They pocket 70% of what they take in, that is after they pay all there costs, like those giant buildings that line the landscape of all the major cities, and the lobbiests that are working so had to make sure it all stays legal. Do the math, by the time they pay everything and pocket all that profit, how much is left for the actual expenses?:hrm: You can believe me or not, and they dont want you to. But it has allowed my family to put a lot of cash in the bank over the years, and still have all the medical care we need. We have the money now to self insure and have saved as roughly as I can figure more than $300,000.00 over our lifetime that would have gone in an insurance companies pocket.:happy:


 
I believe you that insurance companies are ripping off the system but when you do not pay the actual expense (not an inflated one) someone else does. My neighbour is a paramedic who flies with the medivac patients. He was with me which was very comforting. In actual expense they could not even get off the ground for less than $2000 and my husband uses helicopters all the time. Just to hover is $1000. If all you paid for a medivac flight and 3 days in hospital was $220 then someone gave you the deal of the century or the flight and stay were subsidized.


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## vanet (Aug 30, 2011)

emdeengee said:


> I believe you that insurance companies are ripping off the system but when you do not pay the actual expense (not an inflated one) someone else does. My neighbour is a paramedic who flies with the medivac patients. He was with me which was very comforting. In actual expense they could not even get off the ground for less than $2000 and my husband uses helicopters all the time. Just to hover is $1000. If all you paid for a medivac flight and 3 days in hospital was $220 then someone gave you the deal of the century or the flight and stay were subsidized.


Go back and read the post, $220 was not what I paid. Try to keep up.
:umno:


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## Molly Mckee (Jul 8, 2006)

I don't believe that you can fly an air ambulance for $200.00. A friend or Good Samaritan with another friend as paramedic? That's a whole different thing.

Life flight or Med Star as it is called here is very expensive. It is expensive to man, to operate, to fly. It is also well used in our rural area and saves many lives. We know the owner of the local company. He is not taking advantage of anyone. Keeping the planes and helicopters equipped, staffed and ready to fly at a moments notice is not cheap. You have to do that if they are effective and they have saved many lives. If you want to try to find a plane, equipment, qualified staff, at the time you need it when someone may be dying that's your plan. I'll stick with one phone call and help on the way.


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## emdeengee (Apr 20, 2010)

vanet said:


> Go back and read the post, $220 was not what I paid. Try to keep up.
> :umno:


Rude and ignorant gets you nowhere in a discussion but since you feel it is necessary then that explains a lot. It was obviously a typo on my part since I already wrote in a previous post - 

"So who paid for the Medivac flight? The taxpayer? because at $2600 the cost of an Evac flight was not included in the bill for your sons 3 day hospital stay. "

As I said I agree that the insurance companies are scamming their clients and it is something that people should be aware of (and be fighting) but your low cash costs are not without subsidization. Even if YOUR true costs are just being jacked on to someone elses insurance. Again something that needs to change. 

It is great (and you are certainly bragging) that you have saved so much money but I wonder how proud you will be if you have to beg for assistance or accept charity because your child needs cancer treatment for leukemia. Hundreds of thousands of dollars would be the cash price.


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## vanet (Aug 30, 2011)

Folks for a bunch of indepenant people you sure are narrow minded. I have done it for years. I will continue to do it. If it is not for you, then keep playing the game. Doesnt matter to me. But let those of us who have decided not to play the game do it our way. You are scared and petty, and believe you are so intelligent there couldnt possibly be a better way than yours. Well for me I have found one. My comments arnt trying to convert you.I just thought you had enough open mindedness and commen sense to see an alternative. Instead you have repeatedly called me a liar about something you know nothing about. BUT I am the one being rude. We were talking about how to live on very little money, so you go back to your whineing about how it cant or shouldnt be done, while the some of us do it OK.


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## Rachel Lane (Jan 24, 2013)

Oh if only I had a whole $1000 to live on a month, I'd feel rich. Yes, lots of people do it, they have no choice.


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## Lisa in WA (Oct 11, 2004)

vanet said:


> Go back and read the post, $220 was not what I paid. Try to keep up.
> :umno:


It might be easier to keep up with your wisdom if you put some paragraph breaks in for slower people like me.


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## Lisa in WA (Oct 11, 2004)

vanet said:


> I wanted to comment on Insurance. Everyone keeps acting like if you dont have x amout of several different kinds of insurance you are somehow not makeing it or are not responsible. Stop and think for a moment what insurance is. They are betting something will happen to you. The amount of the bet is your monthly payment. They win more than 90% of the time. That is why they are the richest industry in the world. Would you go to Vegas and play a game over and over again with your hard earned money that you knew was heavily stacked against you? It doesnt make any sense. Take all the money you pay to insurance and put it in savings. If nothing happens to you in a few years, and there is better than a 90% chance it wont you will have enough to cover what you would need from the insurance company. We are all paranoid these days. Insurance is a relativly new concept to bilk people out of money and give nothing in return. I applaud people who are responsible enough to save there money instead of giving it to the modern day con men the insurance company.
> 
> By the way I am a licensed insurance agent in the state of AZ, although it is not how I make my living.



Not to be too nitpicky but Petroleum (oil and gas) is the wealthiest industry in the world. You probably knew that and just forgot.


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## emdeengee (Apr 20, 2010)

vanet said:


> Folks for a bunch of indepenant people you sure are narrow minded. I have done it for years. I will continue to do it. If it is not for you, then keep playing the game. Doesnt matter to me. But let those of us who have decided not to play the game do it our way. You are scared and petty, and believe you are so intelligent there couldnt possibly be a better way than yours. Well for me I have found one. My comments arnt trying to convert you.I just thought you had enough open mindedness and commen sense to see an alternative. Instead you have repeatedly called me a liar about something you know nothing about. BUT I am the one being rude. We were talking about how to live on very little money, so you go back to your whineing about how it cant or shouldnt be done, while the some of us do it OK.


If it makes you feel better to think of yourself as innovative and the rest of us as scared and petty and narrowminded and incapable of living on little money then good for you. But I for one am not scared or lack common sense and we have always been independent and self sufficient. In fact I am very confident and secure and know that I am independent of ever having to rely on anyone else. We pay our way.

And yes we pay for it with property insurance and car insurance and disability and extended health insurance and surprisingly enough the "gamble" has paid off. My cancer treatments alone have cost more than I have paid in taxes and disability and supplemental healthcare insurance in 40 years of working. And if any other family member gets sick at the same time they will get just as good treatment. And we won't run out of money or lose what we have.

It is very naive to think that illness and accidents and other emergencies only ever happen in singles giving you lots of time to save up for the next one. In one month we were hit with a forest fire, a stolen car and a ruptured gall bladder. 

In my career and also in my volunteer life I have had to deal with many of those who think that they have the system beat. They are willing to take the risk - until it really affects them. Won't pay $200 a year (55 cents a day) for tenant insurance and then rant and rave at the world and expect hand outs when their apartment building burns. 'cause it does happen. 

And car accidents. As I tell my family I am not worried about your driving but about all the other idiots out there. 

You can be as healthy as a horse as I was and unbeknownst to you (or your doctor or all the yearly physical medical tests) a silent killer is destroying you. At least I never had to weigh up whether or not I should even go to the doctor because it would cost too much if they found something wrong. And when they did find something wrong all I had to do was relax and let them fix me. And my part of the fixing was so much less expensive than my funeral would have been. Oh yeah. I forgot. I have a plan that covers that as well. 

No one will be looking down the back of the couch to find the money to pay for anything that we need.


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## notbutanapron (Jun 30, 2011)

Does it have to be an argument? Can't paying for healthcare be affordable for some people and not for others? I believe vanet when she says she lowered her bills like that, I've seen it done pretty tightly. Huge bills lowered to tiny amounts. I don't know what helicopters cost, but I had one guy take me up in his for free just to show me around once, so it can't really be a grand just to hover for a bit. [Also, it's only a few hundred dollars for a private heli tour of Ayer's Rock on tourist dollars, which is twice real dollars] But there also wasn't a full med team on staff and we were bush so there weren't towers to radio or ask permission from either. Who knows? 

The private healthcare is affordable for me but not for my husband because we're two different people who approach life two different ways. What works for one person doesn't always work for another.

I, for one, am glad the advice is at least _there_ for people who want to try a different method than the one they have. It might work for them.


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## Lisa in WA (Oct 11, 2004)

Molly Mckee said:


> Around here it easily can cost $30,000.00 to move someone by air ambulance. For $60.00 a year you can join the support group and they will pick up the amount the insurance doesn't pay. You have to remember this is a flying ICU with at least one on one staffing, usually more. $200.00 doesn't get it off the ground.


I think we pay for both LifeFlight and NWMedstar since they both operate out of Bonner County. Can't be too careful.


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## Lisa in WA (Oct 11, 2004)

notbutanapron said:


> Does it have to be an argument? Can't paying for healthcare be affordable for some people and not for others? I believe vanet when she says she lowered her bills like that, I've seen it done pretty tightly. Huge bills lowered to tiny amounts. I don't know what helicopters cost, but I had one guy take me up in his for free just to show me around once, so it can't really be a grand just to hover for a bit. [Also, it's only a few hundred dollars for a private heli tour of Ayer's Rock on tourist dollars, which is twice real dollars] But there also wasn't a full med team on staff and we were bush so there weren't towers to radio or ask permission from either. Who knows?
> 
> The private healthcare is affordable for me but not for my husband because we're two different people who approach life two different ways. What works for one person doesn't always work for another.
> 
> I, for one, am glad the advice is at least _there_ for people who want to try a different method than the one they have. It might work for them.


You're not just going up on a helicopter or plane. I don't get why people keep saying this when it's been explained, ad nauseum.
You're going on one with a top notch medical team and top notch medical equipment. My sister was in a horrific car crash when she was 15 and "died" and was resuscitated on a lifeflight chopper. If not for that flight...she would be dead.


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## sidepasser (May 10, 2002)

"Long story short we have been negotiating our medical expenses ever since. That was in the late 80's we have had more than one major emergency includeing my son haveing to be *air evaced 250 miles to a hospital and a 3 day stay. Bill would have been $22000 we paid cash and it was just over $2600.* Everything is super overinflated because of insurance.



vanet said:


> Yes it was, have you ever bought a ticket to fly from show low to Phx. It runs just over $80. *They charged me $220, almost 3 times the going rate.* Ridiculous, but a lot less than the $4000 they were charging the Insurance company when they thought there was one.





emdeengee said:


> $220 for the plane (helicopter?), pilot(s), paramedic(s) and the liabiltiy? Sorry, but impossible to believe that someone else was not picking up the tab.





vanet said:


> Go back and read the post, $220 was not what I paid. Try to keep up.
> :umno:



I do believe Vanet that you did state you paid $220 for a medivac flight - see YOUR post above (bolding is mine). 

Prior to that you stated that you paid a total of 2600. which included the medivac flight so which is it? 

I find your statements regarding costs of the medivac flight to be conflicting. Either you were billed and paid the 220. for the flight or you were not billed and did not pay or you paid the hospital which included the flight.

I bring this up as I hate to see fellow poster's integrity impinged by your derisive comments regarding their objections as to the cost. Again see your quoted comment regarding "keeping up".

Annsi - I am in the same camp - I hate paying for insurance but on the other hand, I have completely gotten back plus some every dime I ever paid in.

It totally depends upon the amount of risk one wishes to accept in life. There are those who can accept any manner of risk and those that will accept no risk and all sorts in between. 

BTW - I did a little research on starting salaries of helo pilots (medivac).
http://www.ehow.com/info_7759223_annual-salary-helicopter-pilot.html

*Average Medevac Pilot Salary*



 Although only 2,060 helicopter pilots are employed in the health care industry to pilot airborne response helicopters according to the Bureau of Labor Statistics, it's a field that offers pilots a position that's less routine than those of commercial pilots. Pilots of medical helicopters earn an average annual salary of $63,170 as of May 2009, according to the Bureau of Labor Statistics.


*Salary by Experience*



 Because the number of hours logged in cockpit is a primary qualification for higher-paying jobs, helicopter pilots with more experience -- and therefore more flight time -- tend to have higher salaries than entry-level ones. Helicopter pilots with one to four years in the field earn average salaries of $41,567 to $60,139 annually as of December 2010, according to PayScale. Earnings climb for pilots with five to nine years of experience to a range of $50,368 to $68,150. Veteran pilots with 10 or more years in the field earn average annual salaries that range from $56,170 to $96,233.




What does it cost to ride in a medevac?

*Costs range from $12,000 to $25,000 per flight 
*Every year, an estimated 550,000 patients in the United States are flown by medical helicopters and small airplanes for emergencies that include car wrecks, hiking accidents and heart attacks, according to the Association of Air Medical Services. Nearly 1,200 aircraft operate from more than 830 bases across the country, with about half run by hospitals and half run as stand-alone community services. 



The average distance of the trips is 52 miles, but the costs vary widely. There's no national requirement to track or report fees, but they can range from less than $12,000 to as much as $25,000 per flight, according to Craig M. Yale, vice president of corporate development for Air Methods Corp., the nationâs largest provider of air medical transport systems.


http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/3441901...ances-leave-some-sky-high-bills/#.UQGlZWf4bW0


or by the mile here:


According to 2010 data from the Centers for Medicare and Medicaid Services, the base rate for a flight in Atlantic City and the surrounding area is $3,307.89. In rural areas around Atlantic City, the rate jumps to $5,274.43.


The farther a patient is from a hospital, the more money it costs for helicopter flights. Rural rates for medevac services are $32.30 per mile in rural areas and $21.53 in urban areas. Those costs are in addition to the base rates.


http://www.pressofatlanticcity.com/...cle_b1bf7a22-c131-11df-a994-001cc4c002e0.html


If I were a betting person and I am not, I would say it would be better to have insurance and not need it than to need it and not have it.


But each to his/her own, but don't be derisive to get your point across. This is a NICE board.


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## notbutanapron (Jun 30, 2011)

LisaInN.Idaho said:


> You're not just going up on a helicopter or plane. I don't get why people keep saying this when it's been explained, ad nauseum.
> You're going on one with a top notch medical team and top notch medical equipment. My sister was in a horrific car crash when she was 15 and "died" and was resuscitated on a lifeflight chopper. If not for that flight...she would be dead.


I said that in my reply.. that it didn't include the team, so what did I know?

My point was... why are we even arguing about it? Can't we just go, "Cool, that's what worked for her" and even if you think she's lying just live your life the way that works for you and give advice for your lifestyle so people who live your lifestyle can do it your way? Why does it have to be torn apart into itemized detail?


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## notbutanapron (Jun 30, 2011)

You're also misquoting her to make her look like a liar. She replied to someone who said it was that much for the flight AND three days in hospital to which she replied to THAT with no, 220 was just for the flight but you took the quotes in the wrong order to make it look like she lied. That's not cool, man.


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## Melissa (Apr 15, 2002)

I would say the actual cost was more than $220, the poster just received a discounted charitable rate. Everything medical is much more expensive than we think it will be...


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## Lisa in WA (Oct 11, 2004)

notbutanapron said:


> I said that in my reply.. that it didn't include the team, so what did I know?


Then what bearing did it have on the argument?


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## notbutanapron (Jun 30, 2011)

I said THAT in my reply, too. What do you do read the first half of posts and then reply?


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## Molly Mckee (Jul 8, 2006)

The fact is it costs x amount of money to have medstar available, before it gets a call to get a patient. If you want them to take off immediately, which may make the difference between life and death, you are paying staff to wait for emergencies and equipment to be ready to take off. If vanet paid 2200.00 for medical evacuation and three days in the hospital, someone else is paying the balance. Or he made it up.


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## primal1 (Aug 22, 2003)

I am pretty close to that, a little more maybe, but since i am self employed it varies from month to month. I also have a mortgage to pay.. so I have finally decided to get a roommate so i can gain a bit of breathing room. It's no fun always living on the edge LOL


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## vanet (Aug 30, 2011)

The total bill was a bit over $2600. The part that paid for the Flight was right at $220. Neither was subsidized, and health care cost a lot LESS than we think. What we hear and see are the inflated insurance costs. Not true costs. As one person mentioned Heli and plane flights dont cost much for other times, so why when its medical. I have already said that there was one EMT along with my wife, the pilot and my infant son. All you folks want to do is argue, so just drop it. I will live my way and you live yours.


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## Annsni (Oct 27, 2006)

vanet said:


> Will you guys listen to yourselves. Cost $30,000 for a 1 hour flight. Are you kidding. How would airlines ever make any money. For $60 a year you can join a group to cover what the insurance doesnt cover LOL. Another insurance company making a $60 dollar bet, that you will never collect on it. Think about it would they offer that if it really cost 30k to make the flight.:hrm: They do that to scare you into giving them money, and obviously it worked. We flew in a plane, that under normal circustances would have charged $80 for my wife to make the flight my son being a month old infant would have cost nothing. There was a paramedic that accompanied my wife and son. I know her well, she made at the time about$11.00/hr, (this was 13 years ago) he had stopped breathing, so there was a ventilation machine aboard. BUT the bottom line is they charged 3 times there normal price for the flight and no one else payed a dime. I was a shocked as you, the first time it happened, but I have been doing this for years. The inflated "costs" as you keep quoting are what has happened today because of insurance, and boy do they have you guys duped. Years ago, before insurance was a big deal, Doctors made about the same as other profesionals, ie teachers, equipment operators, carpenters etc. We have just let the system get so far out of wack, that now doctor make ten times what others do and hospitals are ridiculus. But again the big winners are the insurance companies. Look it up. They pocket 70% of what they take in, that is after they pay all there costs, like those giant buildings that line the landscape of all the major cities, and the lobbiests that are working so had to make sure it all stays legal. Do the math, by the time they pay everything and pocket all that profit, how much is left for the actual expenses?:hrm: You can believe me or not, and they dont want you to. But it has allowed my family to put a lot of cash in the bank over the years, and still have all the medical care we need. We have the money now to self insure and have saved as roughly as I can figure more than $300,000.00 over our lifetime that would have gone in an insurance companies pocket.:happy:


Oh my gosh - this is QUITE funny to read. Yeah, doctors pocket 70% of what they take in? Well, after everything they have to pay out including malpractice insurance, they don't have a whole lot left. I have numerous friends who are doctors and I can tell you very easily that they don't make 10x what other people make. At all!


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## Annsni (Oct 27, 2006)

notbutanapron said:


> You're also misquoting her to make her look like a liar. She replied to someone who said it was that much for the flight AND three days in hospital to which she replied to THAT with no, 220 was just for the flight but you took the quotes in the wrong order to make it look like she lied. That's not cool, man.


If they paid $220 for a mediflight and 3 days in the hospital, the hospital has now passed the costs on to the insurance company because NO hospital will charge even $220 a DAY - and that's without the flight. If they have a patient that cannot pay (which apparently he cannot), they pass the expenses onto other people. 

So I say "Thanks for making my insurance rates go up."


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## Annsni (Oct 27, 2006)

vanet said:


> Folks for a bunch of indepenant people you sure are narrow minded. I have done it for years. I will continue to do it. If it is not for you, then keep playing the game. Doesnt matter to me. But let those of us who have decided not to play the game do it our way. You are scared and petty, and believe you are so intelligent there couldnt possibly be a better way than yours. Well for me I have found one. My comments arnt trying to convert you.I just thought you had enough open mindedness and commen sense to see an alternative. Instead you have repeatedly called me a liar about something you know nothing about. BUT I am the one being rude. We were talking about how to live on very little money, so you go back to your whineing about how it cant or shouldnt be done, while the some of us do it OK.


Woah!! Did your mother raise you this way? If you had been my child, you wouldn't have grown up with this nasty attitude because you would have had a very sore rear!!


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## Annsni (Oct 27, 2006)

vanet said:


> The total bill was a bit over $2600. The part that paid for the Flight was right at $220. Neither was subsidized, and health care cost a lot LESS than we think. What we hear and see are the inflated insurance costs. Not true costs. As one person mentioned Heli and plane flights dont cost much for other times, so why when its medical. I have already said that there was one EMT along with my wife, the pilot and my infant son. All you folks want to do is argue, so just drop it. I will live my way and you live yours.


Again, your inability to pay the full amount results in higher costs for those of us who have insurance and DO pay.


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## Molly Mckee (Jul 8, 2006)

vanet said:


> The total bill was a bit over $2600. The part that paid for the Flight was right at $220. Neither was subsidized, and health care cost a lot LESS than we think. What we hear and see are the inflated insurance costs. Not true costs. As one person mentioned Heli and plane flights dont cost much for other times, so why when its medical. I have already said that there was one EMT along with my wife, the pilot and my infant son. All you folks want to do is argue, so just drop it. I will live my way and you live yours.


You are comparing apples and barns. Either can be red. A medical evacuation helicopter has hundreds of thousands of dollars in medical equipment, is staffed and ready to take off instantly if called with well trained, experienced personal. A tourist helicopter isn't. Your reasoning does not make any sense.


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## I_don't_know (Sep 28, 2012)

What do you need vs what you want.
I rented a storage bay in an industrial area once. I told them I needed to store my furniture; I just did not tell them I was going to store me too. $175 a month, utilities included, $50 for the phone. I made a kitchen was a microwave, electric fry pan, crock pot, and a coffee maker. the shower was a 5 gal bucket set up on 4x4's with a shower head and hose coming from the bottom. I drove a Honda scooter. 
my income was $750 a month. I managed to save enough to buy a 36ft sail boat to live on, and still had enough money to go dancing and enjoy life. 
I lived on what i needed until I got what I want.


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## Annsni (Oct 27, 2006)

I_don't_know said:


> What do you need vs what you want.
> I rented a storage bay in an industrial area once. I told them I needed to store my furniture; I just did not tell them I was going to store me too. $175 a month, utilities included, $50 for the phone. I made a kitchen was a microwave, electric fry pan, crock pot, and a coffee maker. the shower was a 5 gal bucket set up on 4x4's with a shower head and hose coming from the bottom. I drove a Honda scooter.
> my income was $750 a month. I managed to save enough to buy a 36ft sail boat to live on, and still had enough money to go dancing and enjoy life.
> I lived on what i needed until I got what I want.


Hey fellow sailboat owner!! Do you still have it?  That's hubby's dream. That's my nightmare. (living on board)


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## Wendy (May 10, 2002)

> Again, your inability to pay the full amount results in higher costs for those of us who have insurance and DO pay.


I didn't see where he said he was unable to pay. He said he negotiated a lower amount. I have done it on my bills before. I asked what discount I would get if I pay cash & they will generally knock off a big amount. I did it when I had my gall bladder out. I'm not saying they don't pass that on to others, but it doesn't mean he asked for charity. They will always inflate the bills to the insurance. It's just the way it works. If you pay cash, they will give a nice discount as they don't have to deal with filing insurance claims & then accepting only a fraction of what was billed anyway.


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## Sawmill Jim (Dec 5, 2008)

Wendy said:


> I didn't see where he said he was unable to pay. He said he negotiated a lower amount. I have done it on my bills before. I asked what discount I would get if I pay cash & they will generally knock off a big amount. I did it when I had my gall bladder out. I'm not saying they don't pass that on to others, but it doesn't mean he asked for charity. They will always inflate the bills to the insurance. It's just the way it works. If you pay cash, they will give a nice discount as they don't have to deal with filing insurance claims & then accepting only a fraction of what was billed anyway.


Yep that is what the wife does at the densest too .Cash not a check or debt card either those aren't cash .


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## Annsni (Oct 27, 2006)

Wendy said:


> I didn't see where he said he was unable to pay. He said he negotiated a lower amount. I have done it on my bills before. I asked what discount I would get if I pay cash & they will generally knock off a big amount. I did it when I had my gall bladder out. I'm not saying they don't pass that on to others, but it doesn't mean he asked for charity. They will always inflate the bills to the insurance. It's just the way it works. If you pay cash, they will give a nice discount as they don't have to deal with filing insurance claims & then accepting only a fraction of what was billed anyway.


When they know that a patient doesn't have insurance, they will often negotiate to a price lower than even the cost of the treatment - and pass the balance on to the insurance carrying patients. When my daughter was in the hospital, the hospital would have written off her entire bill had our insurance company not covered it (she was approved to go out of network because it was such a rare tumor and she needed the best doctors - none of whom were on the plan). There is no way that writing off the entire bill is just a "discount" and I wouldn't have had to fight for it. 

However, there ARE doctors who do give you a discounted rate - and it is less than what they bill but it's what they would get from the insurance company. The insurance company never pays what the doctor bills either - there is ALWAYS a "negotiated rate" that the insurance company pays which is usually quite discounted from what the doctor bills. That is usually the rate the doctor will "discount" your bill to - but it's not really discounted since that is all he would get anyway from your insurance.


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## vanet (Aug 30, 2011)

Annsni said:


> Again, your inability to pay the full amount results in higher costs for those of us who have insurance and DO pay.


Again, your ignorance of which you speak is showing. I was more than capable of paying the entire bill. That never entered into the negotiations.

I have never had an experiance like this. Every post you make is you twist around what I say to try to make yourself look like you know what you are talking about. You MUST be a politician! Yes? I never said Doctors pocket 70%, it is insurance companies. There are so many places were you have twisted things around and just plain lied in your posts, I dont have the time nor the desire to refute them all. I never compared anything to anything, just laid out one of many examples of times we have negotiated lower medical costs. I tried to be done with this but you just seem to like to argue (Politician right?)

Another example that is not so contraversial that might help some to see what I am talking about is car window glass repair. Around here if you have insurance they will change your windsheild, give you a $150.00 check and diner at a local restraunt. However if you pay cash the bill is less than $200 bucks. So whats up. Well being an Insurance agent, I have looked at C.L.U.E. reports, which are industry reports you look at that tells an insureds entire history. It includes what the insurance company paid out on those glass claims. It ranges from $450 to $600 dollars. I could have bought the windshield for $38.00, they probably pay less with as many as they buy, and they couldnt have paid the guy more than $40 buck for the 1/2 hour it took him to put it in, probably less. If you double the costs from $78.00 to $156.00 to cover his overhead, again probably more than he really spends, he is makeing a healthy profit at the $200 he is charging me cash. But at even the low of $450 he is charging the insurance company he can right me a check for $150 spend $20 for the dinner and still increase his profits. I dont know if they do that everywhere, but it is common practice here. Everything we do in life that involves insurance is inflated. Who exactly profits and were is different in different circumstances. But the insurance company puts away the most.


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## Molly Mckee (Jul 8, 2006)

A discounted rate. Yes, but a medical helicopter or plane doesn't leave the ground with out costing more than $200.00. They will probably reduce the rate if you really can't pay, but that is not the question. We are talking about a life style of taking advantage of others so you can keep a lot of cash, rather than pay insurance premiums or pay your fair share. There is only so much charity to go around, when you use it and don't need to, someone else , that really needs it may not get it. I'm not talking about cash discounts, but taking advantage of others.


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## Guest (Jan 25, 2013)

One person claims that he is getting 100 times more medical care than he pays for in insurance, then turns around and complains about somebody else not carrying their fair share? LOL. That is hysterical.


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## Annsni (Oct 27, 2006)

vanet said:


> Again, your ignorance of which you speak is showing. I was more than capable of paying the entire bill. That never entered into the negotiations.
> 
> I have never had an experiance like this. Every post you make is you twist around what I say to try to make yourself look like you know what you are talking about. You MUST be a politician! Yes? I never said Doctors pocket 70%, it is insurance companies. There are so many places were you have twisted things around and just plain lied in your posts, I dont have the time nor the desire to refute them all. I never compared anything to anything, just laid out one of many examples of times we have negotiated lower medical costs. I tried to be done with this but you just seem to like to argue (Politician right?)


No - just someone with a speck of common sense. 



> Another example that is not so contraversial that might help some to see what I am talking about is car window glass repair. Around here if you have insurance they will change your windsheild, give you a $150.00 check and diner at a local restraunt. However if you pay cash the bill is less than $200 bucks. So whats up. Well being an Insurance agent, I have looked at C.L.U.E. reports, which are industry reports you look at that tells an insureds entire history. It includes what the insurance company paid out on those glass claims. It ranges from $450 to $600 dollars. I could have bought the windshield for $38.00, they probably pay less with as many as they buy, and they couldnt have paid the guy more than $40 buck for the 1/2 hour it took him to put it in, probably less. If you double the costs from $78.00 to $156.00 to cover his overhead, again probably more than he really spends, he is makeing a healthy profit at the $200 he is charging me cash. But at even the low of $450 he is charging the insurance company he can right me a check for $150 spend $20 for the dinner and still increase his profits. I dont know if they do that everywhere, but it is common practice here. Everything we do in life that involves insurance is inflated. Who exactly profits and were is different in different circumstances. But the insurance company puts away the most.


Our shop charges $130 to the insurance company or $130 to us. You must be in an area with some cheating companies. Good luck with that.


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## vanet (Aug 30, 2011)

Annsni said:


> No - just someone with a speck of common sense.
> 
> 
> 
> Our shop charges $130 to the insurance company or $130 to us. You must be in an area with some cheating companies. Good luck with that.


:hysterical:A speck is right!


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## Annsni (Oct 27, 2006)

vanet said:


> :hysterical:A speck is right!


Better than none but filled with rudeness! :bouncy:


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## vanet (Aug 30, 2011)

Annsni said:


> Better than none but filled with rudeness! :bouncy:


Sorry I couldnt resist with you spouting such nonsense. Can we be done now?:hohum:


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## Annsni (Oct 27, 2006)

vanet said:


> Sorry I couldnt resist with you spouting such nonsense. Can we be done now?:hohum:


You call it nonsense, I call it fact. 

No matter.


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## vanet (Aug 30, 2011)

Annsni said:


> You call it nonsense, I call it fact.
> 
> No matter.


So I guess you wont let it rest?:fussin:

Just because you call it fact doesnt mean it is. What did Mitt say. You can have your own house or your own car, BUT you cant have your own FACTS. Something like that anyway. Lets look at the FACTS

1)Several people have already chimed in to say they have done the same thing I have.

2) You have no insurance education, no first hand knowledge of anything we have spoken about. Just your own opinion.

3) I have 25 years track record for negotiating medical bills. 

4) I have a lic. from the state of AZ saying I know the insurance laws well enough to sell it. If I so chose.

And yet some how you know I must be lying or somebody is paying for it and I dont know about it. You have given no info to suggest any of that is so, again just your opinion. But you keep on spouting your babble because a few other uneducated folks like yourself keep egging you on. 

Keep it up, that speck just keeps looking smaller and smaller.

Again I ask can we be done now or do have some other silliness to add.:hohum:


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## Annsni (Oct 27, 2006)

vanet said:


> 1)Several people have already chimed in to say they have done the same thing I have.


Yes, and I've negotiated rates as well. 



> 2) You have no insurance education, no first hand knowledge of anything we have spoken about. Just your own opinion.


Well, since I've negotiated rates as well and have been dealing with insurance companies for years - and have friends who are insiders, I'd say that I have plenty of first hand knowledge.



> 3) I have 25 years track record for negotiating medical bills.


Good for you. That is why my insurance rates are so high.



> 4) I have a lic. from the state of AZ saying I know the insurance laws well enough to sell it. If I so chose.


That's awesome. Good for you.



> And yet some how you know I must be lying or somebody is paying for it and I dont know about it. You have given no info to suggest any of that is so, again just your opinion. But you keep on spouting your babble because a few other uneducated folks like yourself keep egging you on.
> 
> Keep it up, that speck just keeps looking smaller and smaller.
> 
> Again I ask can we be done now or do have some other silliness to add.:hohum:


The silliness? Insurance insiders. Facts. Yep - you can sell it, my friends work FOR the insurance companies.


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## vanet (Aug 30, 2011)

Annsni said:


> Yes, and I've negotiated rates as well.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 I AM SURE they would know and tell you!


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## Molly Mckee (Jul 8, 2006)

vanet said:


> I AM SURE they would know and tell you!


I could swear you said you were not going to post any more----- several times. You can say you are president of an insurance company, that doesn't make you one. For all we know you live in an apt in NYC and are a claim adjuster.

You may be very proud of the way you do things, some of us think that if you can you should pay your bills. You are giving us numbers that are much more than just getting a cash discount. I have a very good idea of how much you can get medical bills reduced when you have the ability to pay them. I have worked with people trying to pay them.


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## vanet (Aug 30, 2011)

I never said I wasnt going to post anymore. I said I would Like to be done argueing. BUT you folks seem to want to keep it up. If you had read you would know I live in N. AZ. I really couldnt care less what you Nazi's think. You are wrong I know it and you know it. When I originally posted I was talking to open mined peolple who might want to know there is a different alternative to the BS you folks propogate. That we all have to "join the system " or we are not being responsible. Why dont you just shut up and quit trying to intimidate those that might be interested in the FACT that you can pay your own way for much less, and eliminate the insurance companies and there ridiculous prices.

Pay all you want. Get more insurance, what ever lets you sleep at night. Let the rest of us be. You have never had to pay one cent more for anything because of me paying cash. If you dont believe real world senarios, we dont care, keep it to your self and those of us who are interested in being self seficient work toward that, without having to spend all our time bickering with you about things you just dont understand. Thank You in advance for understanding.


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## Annsni (Oct 27, 2006)

vanet said:


> I never said I wasnt going to post anymore. I said I would Like to be done argueing. BUT you folks seem to want to keep it up.


Umm - This thread has been dead for 5 days. YOU are the one now bringing it back up again. LOL



> If you had read you would know I live in N. AZ. I really couldnt care less what you Nazi's think.


Nice - name calling. Really shows the strength of your argument.



> You are wrong I know it and you know it.


Umm - If you say so. LOL



> When I originally posted I was talking to open mined peolple who might want to know there is a different alternative to the BS you folks propogate. That we all have to "join the system " or we are not being responsible. Why dont you just shut up and quit trying to intimidate those that might be interested in the FACT that you can pay your own way for much less, and eliminate the insurance companies and there ridiculous prices.


Because that "fact" is not quite so much "fact". You don't have to join the system but because of your freedom to choose to not join in, when you can't pay the full costs and get a discount, others have to foot the remainder of the bill.



> Pay all you want. Get more insurance, what ever lets you sleep at night. Let the rest of us be. You have never had to pay one cent more for anything because of me paying cash.


Actually, I'm sure I have.



> If you dont believe real world senarios, we dont care, keep it to your self and those of us who are interested in being self seficient work toward that, without having to spend all our time bickering with you about things you just dont understand. Thank You in advance for understanding.


Who's bickering? Right! You came back in here to resurrect the thread.


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## edcopp (Oct 9, 2004)

Topic. Where did that go?:catfight:


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## vanet (Aug 30, 2011)

Annsni said:


> Umm - This thread has been dead for 5 days. YOU are the one now bringing it back up again. LOL
> 
> 
> 
> ...


So you just cant let the rest of us have a conversation about this without your BS. I dont know why you are so vested in this, but the same conversation is going on in another thread without all you lies, so try as you might the word will get out. :kiss:


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## Annsni (Oct 27, 2006)

vanet said:


> So you just cant let the rest of us have a conversation about this without your BS. I dont know why you are so vested in this, but the same conversation is going on in another thread without all you lies, so try as you might the word will get out. :kiss:


ROTFL!!!! Ahhh - true colors...


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## ItchingDuck (Jan 25, 2012)

Back to topic:

I read through this thread and was interested at the different situations here. Right now, we could not. We have a $1,000 house payment, 5 kids, 3 horses,4 dogs a lot of cats and will be getting 2 pigs. However my house will be paid off in 5 1/2 more years (a total of a 6 yr mortgage). Then perhaps we could. Especially if we are raising our own dairy and meat. Interesting concept, and one I will certainly attempt to do. I think I would like to challenge myself now to see how cheaply we can live. We do a good job, but there is a lot to buy since we just moved in


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## emdeengee (Apr 20, 2010)

ItchingDuck said:


> Back to topic:
> 
> I read through this thread and was interested at the different situations here. Right now, we could not. We have a $1,000 house payment, 5 kids, 3 horses,4 dogs a lot of cats and will be getting 2 pigs. However my house will be paid off in 5 1/2 more years (a total of a 6 yr mortgage). Then perhaps we could. Especially if we are raising our own dairy and meat. Interesting concept, and one I will certainly attempt to do. I think I would like to challenge myself now to see how cheaply we can live. We do a good job, but there is a lot to buy since we just moved in


Challenging yourself to live on less can actually be fun. Setting a specific amount to live on like $1000 only works for some people. I find it is a lot easier for people to work in percentages and to do so slowly. 

For instance start off trying to live on 90% of what you have been living on. Fixed expenses like a mortgage are pretty much just that - fixed - but everything else is optional. 

The first thing is to know exactly what you are spending your money on. This involves keeping track of everything and creating a detailed budget. From there you can make cuts. For instance a few years ago we cut our variable expenses by just 10% (grocery budget of $400 cut by $40, clothes by $10, pet food by $10, entertainment/sports by $10, electricity by $16 etc) and all of a sudden we were putting up to $130 extra into savings every month - $1500 that first year. The second year we cut our variable expenses by 15%. Now we live on 25% less than when we started.


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## AngieM2 (May 10, 2002)

to bad this went into insulting each other and name calling.
it is closed.


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