# Electric fence & escaped pigs



## mbosma (May 26, 2011)

Hi all,

I'm new to the forum, so be nice.

This is my first time raising pigs. We bought a Gallager charger (.5 joule) and are fencing in about 1/2 acre max with 14g wire. I have 2 good grounding rods set in a wet area by the hose. No weeds on the fence, and it's not touching the ground or a post.

The pigs showed up - two berkshires and one poland china. All between 35 - 50 lbs.

We trained the pigs in the barn for about a week. They shocked themselves often and didn't like it. Mostly by bumping into it because of the small quarters (3 pigs in 14x8 pen)

We then fenced in a valley and part of the creek. All was good for a week. They tested the fence regularly, but never tried to escape. 

We then fenced in part of their pasture. about a 50' x 50. area. Again, all good for a few days. Then my oldest son was playing tag with them, and it went out of the fence, and right back in. One of those proud parenting moments - at least he told me about it (he's 10). Anyway...

After work, I got home to 3 pigs rooting the flower beds and blackberry patches by the garden. I coaxed them back in with some feed. I thought maybe the fence wasn't low enough, and the wires were too far apart. They were about 10" & 20". I reset to 8" & 16. (remember, these are small pigs.) One wire about snout high, and the second about shoulder high.

After supper, I found them rooting up the watermellon patch in the garden. I'm not happy. I recheck all the wires and make a few more adjustments and return the pigs to their pen. 

5 minues later, I see two of them squeek through. I believe they value freedom more than a quick shock from a little charger. 

After a few days of timeout in the barn while I engineered plan B, they are now surrounded by hog pannels w/ electric inside. They still get shocked several times a day (that I witness) who knows how many times they get hit when no-one is around.

Anyone have advice? I really don't want them making a wallow in my pasture - I have the perfect place for them to cool down in the creek. Is .5 joule just way too little of a shock for pigs who have tasted freedom? Will they ever be trusted to stay in again, even if I get a bigger charger?

Thanks.


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## Our Little Farm (Apr 26, 2010)

Have you got weeds growing up on your wires? Have they rooted up some soil against part of it?


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## mbosma (May 26, 2011)

No, it was perfectly clear of weeds and dirt 100% when it happened. It had been raining alot - 4 1/2" the night before.


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## kranac (Sep 8, 2010)

.5 joule it might just be tickling them. Give them something that makes them cry. I don't know what your budget is but increase to several joules.

imo.


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## olivehill (Aug 17, 2009)

If they're getting shocked several times per day AFTER already learning what the wire is it's not shocking them enough. Electric fence is a psychological barrier, not a physical one. If the animals are touching it on purpose on a daily basis then there is no barrier for them. Once they learn what it is they should be stopping inches short of the wire, not touching it repeatedly. They may still touch it by accident here and there, but not daily and certainly not several times daily. How far is your fencer rated for? What animals? 

Now, that said. I've never seen a fencer that requires two ground rods. Most recommend three six foot rods. And if your ground area is wet that's great, but remember the shock still won't be as strong if the hogs are standing on really dry ground. Last summer it was DRY here come late August. I went out every day and wetted down the area under and beside the fence.


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## mbosma (May 26, 2011)

It is rated for 3 miles of multi strand wire, it's the minimum charger Gallager sells that is recommended for pigs.

I've read several places that you need 1 ground rod per joule output. I've got less than 1/2 mile of fence wire ran. The furthest distance away from the ground rods is about 150 yards.

My pig budget is overdrafted already. $180 for pigs, $100 for feed, $70 fence charger, $100 for wire/posts/insulators/ground rods, $80 for hog pannels.

$530 invested already, I'm hoping to recoup the feed and pig investment and put some meat in the freezer this fall. My wife won't like me spending another $200 on a stronger charger. Please don't ask me to add this up again it hurts worse than touching the fence.


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## mbosma (May 26, 2011)

They do go up to it and stop short of touching it often. They do put their nose on it to check if it's hot every now and then. They do bump into it several times a day while feeding.


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## olivehill (Aug 17, 2009)

Well, then you'll probably just have to rotate them around with the hog panels. Sorry, I honestly don't know what to tell you. They've learned they can go through it. And a .5 joule is a little poke. I've used one that low -- I think my solar one is just .5 -- but you have to have calm pigs for it. My older AGH can use that one, but I've found the younger bunch and the Tams wouldn't even pay a second of attention to it. 

Remember that a lot of your investment is re-usable. The fencing itself, the panels, etc. You can use that again with another batch next year. 

Also, if it's of any help. I bought a 2 joule output at TSC for, I think, $120. So it's not a WHOLE $200. LOL! And that one controls all of them... even the wily ones.


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## highlands (Jul 18, 2004)

An electric fence is psychological. If they learn it is nasty they leave it alone. If they learn they can get through to what they want then they do so.

Some keys are:

-Training in a strongly physically fenced area for a few weeks with a hot fence ideally of the type they will be facing in the field;

-Use a strong fence energizer. I like a minimum of 2.5 joules and prefer 6 joules or more.

-Excellent grounding. Energizer is useless without a good ground to complete the circuit.

-Visual barrier outside along fence to clue the pigs in as to where the edge is. For us this is mostly stone walls. Brush is great. Even sticks on the ground help.

-Keep the scary things outside the fence (predators, stray dogs, etc).

-Keep the good things in life inside the fence (friends, food, water, wallow...).

-Walk the fences weekly to check them. Trim brush and weeds as needed. Fix as necessary.

-Test the fence daily which will indicate if perhaps a fence walk is needed.

-Strongly physically fencing gardens and having a hot wire outside of that.

-Cull pigs who are escape artists. They're not worth dealing with. Put them in a tighter fenced area, get them to the size you are willing to slaughter and eat them. Houdini = Pig roast time.

We find pigs pretty easy to fence. Sheep are much harder. We do managed rotational grazing and have miles (20?) of fence on about 70 acres.

See:

http://flashweb.com/blog/tag/fencing


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## HeritagePigs (Aug 11, 2009)

.5 is just way too weak to train pigs. That's the problem. Mine are six and ten joules and they do the job.

Buy a proper charger or get used to wandering pigs.


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## FarmerRob (May 25, 2009)

"Miles of fence" is primarily used to mislead you. The only number that matters, when shopping for an energizer, is "Joules Output" NOT "Joules Stored." 

I agree with Highlands and HeritagePigs, you need more Joules Output, enough to really make an impression. A few proper ZAPS should adjust their attitude towards the hot wires. 

Should that by some chance not get the job done you will be left with having to add woven wire to the outside of your fence posts. OR Eat them now. OR Trade with someone who already has stronger enclosures. OR Spend the next few months having them escape and eat your flowers and produce. However, I think ramping up the juice will get you the results you initially expected. 

You can save that little one for emergency backup or sell/give it to someone who only needs to keep a bunny out of their garden.


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## Sherry in Iowa (Jan 10, 2010)

In my opinion, Heritage Pigs said it all. 

I worked as "outside" gestation manager and the owners were running HUNDREDS of sows and gilts in big open pens with 2 strands of electric. The hogs were not trained before going in. Soon as they were unloaded to the lot, some would try the fence..they never wanted to try it a second time. Now there would occassionally be a pig that hit the fence, got shocked and more or less (out of reflex and fear) shot under the fence. Soon as it was put back in..they stayed where they were supposed to be. 

I understand overhead and money being tight. That being said..like someone else mentioned, the materials you put in the fence can be used for a very long time. The fence itself will last for years if you keep it properly maintained. And moving panels is going to get old real fast.

Best of luck with it all!


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## WildernesFamily (Mar 11, 2006)

What charger did you get? We have the Wrangler which is about the same price you paid, and it holds in our pigs just fine. Only 1 joule of stored energy, I have no idea what output. We have 3 rods in the ground.

Our pigs seldom go near it, if they hit it, it's by accidentally getting pushed into it. Granted, we have field fencing with inside electric for most of their pasture, but one side has only barbed wire which they could easily get through (and electric inside that) but they steer clear of it. We use the poly rope.

Apparently if it's at the right snout height and touches their snout they will back up, if it's too high and touches their head they will shoot forward.

Maybe you could take the charger back and exchange it for something more powerful?


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## mbosma (May 26, 2011)

I've contacted Gallager to see if I can upgrade chargers. I bought the rustler: .5 joule. I had it for 2 weeks before we got the pigs, then 2.5 weeks with it before we had issues. I missed the 30 day money back guarentee by 3 days - I'm hoping they will make an exception. And yes, moving pannels around the yard is already getting old.


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## CesumPec (May 20, 2011)

highlands said:


> We do managed rotational grazing and have miles (20?) of fence on about 70 acres.


Oh NO!!!!

I'm trying to buy 167 and 178 acres. I need 3+ miles of perimeter fencing and I've been trying to figure out how much cross fencing for a rotational plan. Not that every area will be in the rotation, but 20 miles?!?!? That's gonna hurt my back and wallet.


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## HeritagePigs (Aug 11, 2009)

Then let me give you some advice. Use polywire and move your paddocks as you move your hogs and/or cattle.

Here's how I do it. I create two paddocks with:
t-posts at the corners
plastic temp poles to support the fence
two or three strands of polywire.

When it's time I move the livestock from the first to the second paddock. Then I disassemble the first and use that to make the third. And so on...


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## CesumPec (May 20, 2011)

> When it's time I move the livestock from the first to the second paddock. Then I disassemble the first and use that to make the third. And so on...


Thanks HPig. That's pretty much how Joel Salatin describes it as well and the direction I'm going. 

My ideal is that the property is 100% perimeter fenced with additional permanent fenced pastures with temp electric breaking up the pastures into rotational grazing lots. This way when the storms come and electric goes out or trees break fences, that animals would have to find their way thru two levels of fencing. 

I'm still in the planning phase and I know this will get more expensive than I can afford, but it might be something I can grow into over the years.


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## HeritagePigs (Aug 11, 2009)

"That's pretty much how Joel Salatin describes it as well" Folks were doing this when he was just a pup... Copycat... 

BTW, once they are trained it won't matter if the power goes out. Two of my herds have been behind dead wire for months...they just won't take the chance...


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## highlands (Jul 18, 2004)

CesumPec said:


> > Originally Posted by highlands
> > We do managed rotational grazing and have miles (20?) of fence on about 70 acres.
> 
> 
> Oh NO!!!! I'm trying to buy 167 and 178 acres.


You don't have to fence it all. We fence only about 6% of our land. The rest is forest - we do logging too. Start small and expand as you need it.



CesumPec said:


> I need 3+ miles of perimeter fencing and I've been trying to figure out how much cross fencing for a rotational plan. Not that every area will be in the rotation, but 20 miles?!?!? That's gonna hurt my back and wallet.


The miles is how many miles of wire. Our outside perimeter is about 1.5 miles long for the 70 acres we use in rotational grazing.

If a fence is 1.5 miles (our outer perimeter) and 4 strands then it is 4 x 1.5 miles = 6 miles.

Then start adding up the paddock divisions. We use fewer strands on most paddock divisions.

When adding up any fence netting it weighs more heavily than the regular fencing because there is so much more wire.

This is a rather in exact thing. If you get it all setup, all the lines not shorting and the fence at the far end from the energizer is reading too low then you need a bigger energizer. For a small setup I would recommend a minimum of 2.5 joules. I like 6 or more joules. I use several energizers dividing the system up into sections each of which is powered by a different energizer.

Test the fence daily. If the charger drops then a fence walk is due. Walk the fence weekly looking for potential problems. It's good exercise.

In the winter I turn off most of it as the snows get higher than the fences (4') and the animals are in close on the winter paddocks - Think deer yard where they keep the snow packed down. Those winter paddocks become gardens for pumpkins and such in the summer to feed the animals next fall and winter.


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## CesumPec (May 20, 2011)

HeritagePigs said:


> "That's pretty much how Joel Salatin describes it as well" Folks were doing this when he was just a pup... Copycat...


well sure, but for people like me who developed the desire for life on the farm as a kid from only a few summers on relatives' farms, Salatin is a an educational joy. I've got the desire and have read everything I can, learned a lot, but my fear is that all that education is a bit like learning ride a bike by reading. 

I'm supposed to close on the first property in three weeks, but problems, problems. Years ago this place was a citrus orchard so there are lots of enviro tests that have to come back clean prior to the close.

Heritage, I read a bit about your GOS operation. Sounds very interesting. DO you think they would handle Florida sand and sun OK? In my area we get a few weeks of low 30F temps each winter and summers run hot and long from about April to October. Summer temps are usually in the 90s, high humidity, rarely breaks 100, but it is hot every day. 

In order to keep farmer tuition costs low, I plan to learn farming with whatever pig, cow, and chicken mutts are locally available. But specialty breed preservation and premiums appeals to both my heart, stomach, and wallet.


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## CesumPec (May 20, 2011)

highlands said:


> You don't have to fence it all. We fence only about 6% of our land. The rest is forest - we do logging too. Start small and expand as you need it.


Part of of the dream includes my wife and her love of horses. So we'll have to fence the whole acreage and I'll have to negotiate for how much I am allowed to keep non-equine.



> I like 6 or more joules. I use several energizers dividing the system up into sections each of which is powered by a different energizer.


Yes, I was planning on using multiple chargers for more security. And to help me sleep better at night, I wanted something with bite. With national forest on three sides, I'm not only worried about keeping my critters in, I'm worried about keeping lions (Florida Panther), tigers (bobcats), and bears (black) plus the usual assortment of coyote, *****, wild boar, and others out. 



> In the winter I turn off most of it as the snows get higher than the fences


Of all the problems I'll have, that isn't one of them.


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## HeritagePigs (Aug 11, 2009)

CesumPec said:


> Heritage, I read a bit about your GOS operation. Sounds very interesting. DO you think they would handle Florida sand and sun OK? In my area we get a few weeks of low 30F temps each winter and summers run hot and long from about April to October. Summer temps are usually in the 90s, high humidity, rarely breaks 100, but it is hot every day.
> 
> In order to keep farmer tuition costs low, I plan to learn farming with whatever pig, cow, and chicken mutts are locally available. But specialty breed preservation and premiums appeals to both my heart, stomach, and wallet.


We've shipped several GOS to Florida; I've been there many times so I'm familiar with the climate. As for temps, it gets well below zero, well over 100, and high humidity here and all of our GOS do fine. Just make sure they have some shade and always have access to clean water. They also appreciate a nice wallow in the heat...

Brian


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## CesumPec (May 20, 2011)

very interesting, Heritage, and I followed your links thru to the GOS cyclic breeding info. that was a subject I had been wondering about but had put off asking until it was closer to being a real problem for me.


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## mbosma (May 26, 2011)

Hi all, finally have an update for you. 

I emailed Gallagher and asked to get the charger replaced - just past 30 days. The corporate office said no way, then I replied "I'm not happy with your service and would like a better solution provided. I feel it's false advertising to say the .5 joule charger will contain pigs, etc."

Anyway, last night the Gallagher territory rep stopped by to look at the fence. He strongly recommend 3 wire fencing for the pigs, but we tested the current charger and some of his he had on hand and here are the results.

Rustler (.5 joule) output 7,000 volts
M300 (3 joule) output 9,000 volts
M600 (6 joule) output 10,000 volts (this shocked the crap out of houdine with a wet nose - should be a lasting experience)

There was no drop in my fence voltage. I've only got about 1/4 mile total wire installed.

He let me trade in the rustler I had purchased even though it was past the 30 day money back guarentee. I upgraded to the M300 3 joule ($165 more) and it's quite a shock. I managed to test it last night in the dark while adjusting wire height. Pigs are back on pasture and all is good for now.


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## Silvercreek Farmer (Oct 13, 2005)

Glad to see they finally stepped up to the plate. Pretty cool that they sent a guy out to, never heard of that before. I'd go ahead and add the extra ground rods.

If you still have problems, make sure your wires are tight on your fence, and use a step in post every 10 feet or so if needed to keep the fence firm. That way when they go to squeeze through the wires press harder on their bodies and deliver a better shock. If that STILL doesn't work you may need to move up to electroplastic fence or the poor man's version: 2"x2" chicken wire elevated off the ground a couple of inches with insulated posts. Sorry about your troubles, I hope you don't have to resort to these measures...


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