# Has your position on getting vaccinated changed?



## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

I'm curious about how people's position on getting the vaccine may have changed or not.


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## muleskinner2 (Oct 7, 2007)

No.


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## GTX63 (Dec 13, 2016)

I shifted in my seat because the dog keeps nosing my hand while I'm using the mouse.


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## no really (Aug 7, 2013)

I got the J&J only for ease of travel, it was the only one my doc said was the one he could recommend for me. Even though he thought I should wait.


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## RJ2019 (Aug 27, 2019)

Please fix your poll, it is skewed in one direction. Very biased.

I was seriously CONSIDERING getting vaccinated when the vaccines first became available but these strong-arm tactics to try to force me to get vaccinated, plus all of the side effects and propaganda surrounding the vaccines have made me very, very suspicious. I don't like being told what to do.


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## GTX63 (Dec 13, 2016)

I'll give Muleskinner credit for dropping this link into HT.
The Propaganda War (And How to Fight It)


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## doozie (May 21, 2005)

Was hesitant at first, but did get it when it was available. It made sense for me due to other health concerns.
Almost all of my family has been vaccinated, and all were originally hesitant except for one.
Each person has their own reasons for getting it.
One son, on our last conversation,expressed he will not when I asked if he would just consider it. " Nope, no way" . 
As much as I wish he would, I get why he won't too.


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## emdeengee (Apr 20, 2010)

I wanted the vaccine but had to wait for approval. Finally got it - both shots Moderna - and will get any booster that is deemed necessary. 
Not a hard decision. My oncologist told me that I have a good chance of surviving my cancer for a while yet but if I get Covid-19 I have very little chance of surviving it. Even with the vaccine the amount of immunity and number of antibodies I get will only give me about 50% protection but that is my condition and must be accepted. 

I also want to protect my family as much as possible and since I am in the group that could get it more easily then it is my responsibility to keep it away from others.

This is a new virus. Even after all these months and all the efforts put into understanding it and defeating it we know very little about it. It is also a very dangerous virus that is changing all the time. The Delta variant has now shown that it is as easily transmittable as chickenpox and it is attacking the young whereas the original Covid-19 focused on the old. 

People need to be very frightened of this virus but because of politics too many are not. It needs to be treated with the same respect as Ebola or AIDs.


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## Farmerga (May 6, 2010)

I got it early, but, I may regret it as the government is far too eager for us to line up and get their shot. They seem to want control over us as evidenced by the latest scare tactics by the CDC who now "recommends" that even the vaccinated wear a compliance tag.


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## RJ2019 (Aug 27, 2019)

GTX63 said:


> I'll give Muleskinner credit for dropping this link into HT.
> The Propaganda War (And How to Fight It)


Interesting article


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## mzgarden (Mar 16, 2012)

My position has not changed.


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## Farmerga (May 6, 2010)

emdeengee said:


> People need to be very frightened of this virus but because of politics too many are not. It needs to be treated with the same respect as Ebola or AIDs.


Ebola kills between 25 and 90% of those infected. HIV used to kill everyone who was infected. Saying that we need to be as scared of a virus with a mortality rate south of 1% seems to be more of a political stance than a scientific one.


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## Riverdale (Jan 20, 2008)




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## Riverdale (Jan 20, 2008)

"Fear profits a man nothing"


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## Lisa in WA (Oct 11, 2004)

No. I went into it with an open mind and asked experts in their field who know far more than I do and They were all getting it.
I got both doses of Moderna as soon as I was able and am glad I did.


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## Lisa in WA (Oct 11, 2004)

Riverdale said:


>


Love that movie.
yup, I’m not afraid of the virus or the vaccine.
I have a respect for the virus. I had a friend who died from it. But I took reasonable precautions and am vaccinated.
im not really into the idea of masking up again to protect those who choose not to take precautions , but do want to protect kids.
i am absolutely against more lockdowns.


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## romysbaskets (Aug 29, 2009)

Our entire family is vaccinated besides my brother. I got it later on as we were on a island with zero cases. This said, my kids wanted hubby to go to Hawaii for his birthday. He is due for a single kidney removal due to tumor location and he has low level prostate cancer. We did get vaccinated prior to that trip in June. In my family, my unvaccinated members all got it! My brother got Covid 19, my nephew, cousin and his wife along with her Dad who died, 7 family members in another cousins family. My half sister and her husband, and that is about it so far. Of the people who got Covid, only my cousin and his wife got the vaccine afterward. Everyone is free to choose but for me, I am wearing my mask and not attending gatherings, eating inside a restaurant or coffee shop. No intention of getting a booster and don't want any more shots. The mask wearing is not just to protect others but minimize exposure to the new Variant! That is why I never stopped wearing my mask. I don't wear it outside or here on the island as we don't see people hardly unless we boat off and its from a distance.


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## no really (Aug 7, 2013)

I'm having a difficult time with the open southern border and the illegals being transported all over the US with the need to vaccinate. I believe in La Joya they were housing a group that was finally tested after complaints of them wandering around in a fast food joint. That group all tested positive, so they took them to the local hotel and are housing them there. 

Either there is a total lack of interest in the health and well being of all involved or the threat of illness is not that great. 

I too lost some friends and family to covid but also lost some to influenza a couple of years ago.


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

GTX63 said:


> I'll give Muleskinner credit for dropping this link into HT.
> The Propaganda War (And How to Fight It)


I thought @Pony did that


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## MoonRiver (Sep 2, 2007)

Reluctantly I got the J&J. I knew I was going to be traveling later in the year and was worried I might be barred from restaurants, stores, campgrounds, etc. if I wasn't vaccinated. Since I have learned more about Ivermectin, I now believe I would have been better protected using Ivermectin prophylactically than with the vaccine. 

So I've gone from slightly for it to against it for me personally. But I have changed my mind about the vaccines because of the delta variant. If someone is not taking Ivermectin and they are over 30, especially if they have health problems, I think they should strongly consider getting vaccinated. The delta variant is much more infectious and is slightly more deadly than the ancestral virus. A lot of unvaccinated people are likely to get very sick and a fairly large number might die. We know at least 40% of the US adult population is overweight with a large portion of them being obese.

*Note that the Delta Variant is much more contagious than the ancestral Sars-Cov2 virus and a little more deadly.*










Captured from today's video by Dr. John Campbell - CDC leak, summary and full report


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## GTX63 (Dec 13, 2016)

HDRider said:


> I thought @Pony did that


Maybe she swallowed the spider to catch the fly, I don't know why,
I caught it in his post.


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## oregon woodsmok (Dec 19, 2010)

No change in my attitude and I still very firmly believe that, because this is America, that each adult gets to make their very own decision about whether or not to be vaccinated. Not only against covid but against the flu, tetnus, measles, whooping cough, shingles, whatever shot is on offer. Talk it over with your family physician and make up your own mind.


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## GTX63 (Dec 13, 2016)




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## wr (Aug 10, 2003)

My position remains unchanged. The vaccination should be available to everyone who wants it and nobody should be forced, coerced or bullied to get it.


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## gilberte (Sep 25, 2004)

First they were giving away a free donut for a shot, then maybe a lottery ticket. Now I see some states are giving $100. Reckon I'll hold out for at least a thousand, then maybe.


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## Redlands Okie (Nov 28, 2017)

The covid shot is basically a done deal. Time to move on. Wish they would put the effort and money being spent on convincing people to take the covid shot into cancer treatment research.


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## Kiamichi Kid (Apr 9, 2009)

Invictus Maneo


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## newfieannie (Dec 24, 2006)

No


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## GunMonkeyIntl (May 13, 2013)

painterswife said:


> I'm curious about how people's position I'm getting the vaccine may have changed or not.


I can’t vote. You didn’t include an option for “_I’m afraid to get it because the President, Vice President, and speaker of the house all told me that it couldn’t be trusted._”

Could you just go ahead and add that one to cover all of us who don’t want to take it because the leaders of the party who do your thinking for you told us that it was dangerous? 
Thanks.


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## GunMonkeyIntl (May 13, 2013)




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## rebar (Jul 8, 2015)

RJ2019 said:


> Please fix your poll, it is skewed in one direction. Very biased.
> 
> I was seriously CONSIDERING getting vaccinated when the vaccines first became available but these strong-arm tactics to try to force me to get vaccinated, plus all of the side effects and propaganda surrounding the vaccines have made me very, very suspicious. I don't like being told what to do.


Good point.

You need to add another option to your poll that reads..

*Hell no I'm not getting inoculated because it takes a decade or two to know if a gene therapy shot is safe and effective! *


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## Lisa in WA (Oct 11, 2004)

rebar said:


> Good point.
> 
> You need to add another option to your poll that reads..
> 
> *Hell no I'm not getting inoculated because it takes a decade or two to know if a gene therapy shot is safe and effective! *


My geneticist said it’s absolutely not gene therapy because it doesn’t involve our DNA Or change our genes in any way.
What have you got?
Besides a limp sense of humor, I mean.


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## nchobbyfarm (Apr 10, 2011)

Why should my position change. The CDC, the government agency that is supposed to inform me, cannot make up their mind. And they provide no data to back up their flips nor their flops.......









Analysis: CDC fails to publish data needed to judge risk of breakthrough infections :: WRAL.com


Had the CDC been doing more to report breakthrough infections, the change to the masking guidance might not have taken the country so much by surprise.




www.wral.com


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## poppy (Feb 21, 2008)

I just don't like being lied to or the idea of nothing but guesswork being used as a scare tactic. It is looking like the dreaded Delta variant has been way over hyped for some reason. It may be more easily spread but the data in most countries, even ones with low vaccination rates, the death rate from the variant is even lower than the other strains. Look at countries like Australia. They went into another lockdown over this variant and cases have gone up a good bit over the last few weeks but their death rate has averaged 9 or 10 just like it was before the variant appeared.


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## rebar (Jul 8, 2015)

Lisa in WA said:


> My geneticist said it’s absolutely not gene therapy because it doesn’t involve our DNA Or change our genes in any way.
> What have you got?
> Besides a limp sense of humor, I mean.


Dr. Michael Yeadon and Geert Vanden Bossche among many other credible doctors say the "injections" are _*experimental gene therapy*_ – Bossche says the injections will foster and promote the spread of new variants that will cause more misery and death than if the virus was allowed to run its course. But go ahead and trust your health to one geneticist..


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## barnbilder (Jul 1, 2005)

I don't want to support people whose business model is stealing people's hard earned money for a product that is not needed.


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## todd_xxxx (Apr 19, 2018)

rebar said:


> Dr. Michael Yeadon and Geert Vanden Bossche among many other credible doctors say the "injections" are _*experimental gene therapy*_ – Bossche says the injections will foster and promote the spread of new variants that will cause more misery and death than if the virus was allowed to run its course. But go ahead and trust your health to one geneticist..


You don't have to decide to trust your health to one geneticist, or the two doctors you mentioned, or anyone else to make your point. Simply explain how an mRNA vaccine can change your DNA, and you made your point without having to name drop. Anxiously awaiting that information.


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## barnbilder (Jul 1, 2005)

All you need to know about the delta variant, fool me once.........


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## rebar (Jul 8, 2015)

todd_xxxx said:


> You don't have to decide to trust your health to one geneticist, or the two doctors you mentioned, or anyone else to make your point. Simply explain how an mRNA vaccine can change your DNA, and you made your point without having to name drop. Anxiously awaiting that information.


I don’t have to do diddly. I trust virologists to guide me with my decisions. It’s your job to prove me wrong , so get on it.


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## todd_xxxx (Apr 19, 2018)

rebar said:


> I don’t have to do diddly. I trust virologists to guide me with my decisions. It’s your job to prove me wrong , so get on it.


I guess you're confused about that too. A person making a claim needs to prove it. It isn't up to the rest of the world to disprove it, so no, it isn't my job to prove you wrong.

I added this, in case you were about to disagree, just because:

*The burden of proof fallacy*
*What is the burden of proof fallacy*
The _burden of proof fallacy_ is a logical fallacy that occurs when someone tries to evade their burden of proof, by denying it, pretending to have fulfilled it, or shifting it to someone else.
For example, if a politician is asked to justify a policy that they’re promoting, they may use the burden of proof fallacy by saying that they don’t have to justify the policy, or by saying that someone else should explain why the policy shouldn’t be implemented.
The burden of proof fallacy can involve several patterns of behaviors, all of which revolve around evading one’s burden of proof. The main such patterns of behavior are the following:

Denying the need to prove a claim.
Pretending that to have already proven the claim, without actually having done so.
*Shifting the burden of proof to others, by stating that they should disprove the original claim.*
Shifting the burden of proof to others, by stating that they should prove their own stance, while ignoring the burden of proof for the original claim.

I bolded the part you are guilty of.


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## rebar (Jul 8, 2015)

todd_xxxx said:


> I guess you're confused about that too. A person making a claim needs to prove it. It isn't up to the rest of the world to disprove it, so no, it isn't my job to prove you wrong.
> 
> I added this, in case you were about to disagree, just because:
> 
> ...


I’ll get right on that sir lol. Did you notice that your in the minority?


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## todd_xxxx (Apr 19, 2018)

rebar said:


> I’ll get right on that sir lol. Did you notice that your in the minority?


I didn't expect that you would have anything there, because the point you tried to make, and then make me disprove, was silly. And you're right that you "don’t have to do diddly." Just recognize that when you make a point, and expect others to disprove it, it makes you look silly. 

Not that being part of the majority makes you any more right than being in the minority does, but, for humor's sake, what minority would that be?


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## rebar (Jul 8, 2015)

If trusting the recommendations of internationally renowned virologists and doctors rather than some geneticist makes me look silly, so be it. 

Your defending Lisa in WA position, so that would mean you probably would have voted for any poll answer other than what the majority voted. Which puts you and Lisa in WA in the minority which usually means a silly wrong and uneducated answer.

Now run along


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## Lisa in WA (Oct 11, 2004)

rebar said:


> I don’t have to do diddly. I trust virologists to guide me with my decisions. It’s your job to prove me wrong , so get on it.


Here you go:





__





American Society for Virology Advocate for COVID-19 Vaccines | Newsroom


Virologists from across the country, including UNC School of Medicine's Blossom Damania, PhD, and Craig Cameron, PhD, answer frequently asked questions regarding the COVID-19 vaccine.




news.unchealthcare.org





you don’t go with what virologists say.
You go with one or two crackpot outliers say that confirm your bias.
My FiL was a virologist from Harvard. He talked about using mRNA for vaccines in the future. He knew James Watson when they were at Harvard Med school together. He also led the team of scientists that developed the first synthetic insulin that is used today.
My MIL is an Immunologist. She is vaccinated.
My uncle is a biochemist with a PhD from RPI. He’s vaccinated.
All of them are far right conservatives too.
But real actual scientists.

ETA: And my geneticist is a board certified clinical geneticist out of John’s Hopkins. She received the vaccine and recommended it for me as well. I feel certain she’d know if it would affect DNA.


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## todd_xxxx (Apr 19, 2018)

rebar said:


> If trusting the recommendations of internationally renowned virologists and doctors rather than some geneticist makes me look silly, so be it.
> 
> Your defending Lisa in WA position, so that would mean you probably would have voted for any poll answer other than what the majority voted. Which puts you and Lisa in WA in the minority which usually means a silly wrong and uneducated answer.
> 
> Now run along


I wasn't defending anyone's position, I was pointing out that your "gene therapy" comment was nonsense. Then I pointed out your logical fallacy that anyone should need to disprove your assertion, and that is what made you look silly. Your comment that I am "in the minority" made no sense, and your justification for saying it was just an assumption, and a bad one at that. The "now run along" just proves you are childish as well as unable to string to together any kind of logical comment. Have you ever heard the saying that it's better to keep your mouth shut and be thought a fool than to open it and remove all doubt?


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## Lisa in WA (Oct 11, 2004)

todd_xxxx said:


> I wasn't defending anyone's position, I was pointing out that your "gene therapy" comment was nonsense. Then I pointed out your logical fallacy that anyone should need to disprove your assertion, and that is what made you look silly. Your comment that I am "in the minority" made no sense, and your justification for saying it was just an assumption, and a bad one at that. The "now run along" just proves you are childish as well as unable to string to together any kind of logical comment. Have you ever heard the saying that it's better to keep your mouth shut and be thought a fool than to open it and remove all doubt?


I‘m amused that he thinks I need defending.


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## Northof49 (Mar 3, 2018)

todd_xxxx said:


> You don't have to decide to trust your health to one geneticist, or the two doctors you mentioned, or anyone else to make your point. Simply explain how an mRNA vaccine can change your DNA, and you made your point without having to name drop. Anxiously awaiting that information.


Here is a link to explain how mRNA changes DNA. There are numerous other fact filled sites out there.








Researchers WARN: mRNA injections may permanently alter human DNA


Researchers from Harvard University and the Massachusetts Institute of Technology (MIT) are warning that the messenger RNA (mRNA) technology used in Wuhan coronavirus (Covid-19) “vaccines” has the capability to forever alter recipients’ genomic DNA, making them more susceptible to disease and...




pharmaceuticalfraud.com





I don't understand how so many are so willing to be guinea pigs in a lab. 
The flu virus was enhanced in a lab to be more contagious creating Covid 19. This was done by the same evil group that has published documents stating they will depopulate the planet using vaccines, then shut down the world for the Great Global Reset. All those that survive would become slave from that time forward.
Wake Up People. 
No vax here, only lead poisoning if forced.


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## Lisa in WA (Oct 11, 2004)

Northof49 said:


> Here is a link to explain how mRNA changes DNA. There are numerous other fact filled sites out there.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


The reason that you don’t understand is because you’re getting “information” from absolute, wild-eyed, screwball sites like this. And given the rest of your post, you won’t ever understand because you are also a wild-eyed, conspiracy theory loving wacko.
Really, it’s a one off that I responded to you here because I usually only save my breath for those with whom I stand a snowballs chance in hell of having a reasonable exchange.

You’re welcome. Have a safe trip back to your cave.


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## GTX63 (Dec 13, 2016)

Lisa in WA said:


> I‘m amused that he thinks I need defending.


"Where is your husband?!"
Sorry....


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## todd_xxxx (Apr 19, 2018)

Northof49 said:


> Here is a link to explain how mRNA changes DNA. There are numerous other fact filled sites out there.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


It isn't flu.

The evil group that published documents stating they would depopulate the planet...Did you read or listen to what was actually said? Of course not, you got your news from facebook. 

The "author" you referenced on "pharmaceuticalfraud", which certainly seems to be an unbiased website, complete with no "about" page or any information, is Ethan Huff. He has lots of gems like that available. Here are some of his "headlines": 

*MILLIONS Are Seriously Injured Or Dead From Covid Vaccines – EU Database

Measles Vaccines Kill More People than Measles, CDC Data Proves 

Climate propaganda is directly linked to the LGBT agenda, and their goals are the same: to destroy children and depopulate the planet 

Polio-like illness is spreading like wildfire, and the culprit appears to be vaccines*

Back in 2015 he wrote about an ancient therapy to “reactivate a calcified pineal gland”: staring into the sun for 40 minutes a day. 

"There’s more trouble in cryptocurrency land after a “monstrous data facility” that mined Bitcoin in China reportedly burned to the ground recently, supposedly due to “faulty wiring and bad PSUs.”
An omen of what’s to come for the world’s financial system at large, the disaster, which occurred at a company known as Innosilicon, resulted in more than $10 million worth of equipment being destroyed, including advanced mining machines that “dug” Bitcoin out of the digital “ground.”
Horrified by the incident, some Twitter users with local access shared pictures and video of all the damage, which just goes to show that there’s no actual stability or safety when it comes to cryptocurrency."

Color me skeptical.


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## GunMonkeyIntl (May 13, 2013)

rebar said:


> Your defending Lisa in WA position, so that would mean you probably would have voted for any poll answer other than what the majority voted.


See, that’s where I diverge from Todd, I prefer to egg Lisa on. Of course, I make sure I’m wearing goggles and clothes I don’t care about getting dirty when I do.

Your tying this to the poll response is where you’re getting it all wrong. If there’s a majority around here, it actually tends conservative, and there’s a handful of folks that you genuinely can’t pin down to one “side” or the other. I think Lisa generally votes democrat, but I guarantee you’d be surprised by her position on a bunch of different topics. There are several others who probably vote the way you do, but would surprise you where they come out on the issues.

Like I said, there’s a group on here that you can’t easily predict- more than you’re likely to find elsewhere. Forget whether they agree with you or not; that’s how you know they actually think about things. They’re honestly why I still hang around on this stupid forum. 

Avoid wasting all of your asshat points at once, and you might just last long enough to discover that for yourself.


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## Northof49 (Mar 3, 2018)

Go check any site reporting worldwide deaths last year. In almost all the countries the death rates were in the normal range for the last 5 years. THERE WAS NO PANDEMIC PERIOD! Now you are all guinea pigs vaccinated with test ingredients that you had no clue what they were or their long term effects when you willingly got on that jab train.
Delta variant is all the vaccinated break through cases that they don't want to admit that the vaccines were almost useless.


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## todd_xxxx (Apr 19, 2018)

Northof49 said:


> Go check any site reporting worldwide deaths last year. In almost all the countries the death rates were in the normal range for the last 5 years. THERE WAS NO PANDEMIC PERIOD! Now you are all guinea pigs vaccinated with test ingredients that you had no clue what they were or their long term effects when you willingly got on that jab train.
> Delta variant is all the vaccinated break through cases that they don't want to admit that the vaccines were almost useless.


All caps and exclamation points don't make you right. 

A whole lot of people here aren't vaccinated. 

Your last sentence was silly. 

It's very hard to take you seriously.


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## Northof49 (Mar 3, 2018)

todd_xxxx said:


> It isn't flu.
> 
> The evil group that published documents stating they would depopulate the planet...Did you read or listen to what was actually said? Of course not, you got your news from facebook.


The CDC has now admitted that the PCR tests could not tell if it was the flu or covid in the results. That's because they are almost identical.

Yes I have read documents from "The World Economic Forum", "Davis Group" "Bill Gates" etc. 

No I'm not on facebook.
Remember, this past year or two the difference between "Conspiracy Theory" and truth is 6-12 months.

Almost everything they try to debunk and shut down is turning out to be the truth.


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## todd_xxxx (Apr 19, 2018)

Northof49 said:


> The CDC has now admitted that the PCR tests could not tell if it was the flu or covid in the results. That's because they are almost identical.
> 
> Yes I have read documents from "The World Economic Forum", "Davis Group" "Bill Gates" etc.
> 
> ...


Since you quoted the depopulating the earth silliness, would you mind summarizing for me what was actually said, rather than what you insinuated was said?


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## SLFarmMI (Feb 21, 2013)

Northof49 said:


> The CDC has now admitted that the PCR tests could not tell if it was the flu or covid in the results. That's because they are almost identical.
> 
> Yes I have read documents from "The World Economic Forum", "Davis Group" "Bill Gates" etc.
> 
> ...


Um, you do realize that the flu (AKA the INFLUENZA virus) and Covid (AKA a CORONAVIRUS) are two different viruses right? And that your statement about the PCR test is incorrect, right?


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## Northof49 (Mar 3, 2018)

Do the research yourself, start by reading everything on the "Georgia Guide Stones" Research Global Reset documents, go down a rabbit hole or two. The Main Stream Media & Big Tech have blocked most of the truth (if all BS then why would they go to such great length to block it), but the government and Great Reset documents they don't touch because even Satan must reveal his deeds before committing them.


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## todd_xxxx (Apr 19, 2018)

Northof49 said:


> Do the research yourself, start by reading everything on the "Georgia Guide Stones" Research Global Reset documents, go down a rabbit hole or two. The Main Stream Media & Big Tech have blocked most of the truth (if all BS then why would they go to such great length to block it), but the government and Great Reset documents they don't touch because even Satan must reveal his deeds before committing them.


You and rebar should sit down and have a beer together. I'm thinking you have a tremendous lot in common.


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## Hiro (Feb 14, 2016)

SLFarmMI said:


> Um, you do realize that the flu (AKA the INFLUENZA virus) and Covid (AKA a CORONAVIRUS) are two different viruses right? And that your statement about the PCR test is incorrect, right?


Yes, influenza viruses and corona viruses are distinctly different. But, the statement on the PCR tests that have been used for the last 18 months lack of discrimination between the two is not inaccurate. That is why the flu disappeared last flu season supposedly.


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## rebar (Jul 8, 2015)

Dr. Robert Malone, who is the *inventor* of *mRNA* vaccines was asked..

*Q:* "Why do you call the adenovirus-based (J&J) and mRNA-based vaccines *gene therapy-based vaccines*? And why is that important? Are you just trying to scare people? Are you an anti-vaxxer?

*Dr. Malone:*

_I have spent my whole career seeking to develop fundamental enabling vaccine technologies, developing vaccines, designing and managing vaccine studies etc. Vaccines are my business. I am not an anti-vaxxer. I am a pro-truth, pro-safety, pro-bioethics vaccine developer. Vaccines save lives. They are often (but not always) our best hope for reducing the death and disease associated with many pathogens, and offer hope for treating cancer and other diseases._
_ 
So, why are these *gene therapy-based vaccines*? Because both of these types of vaccines employ technologies that involve transferring foreign genetic material into the cells of the person receiving the vaccine, and making those cells essentially become miniature vaccine antigen manufacturing factories – inside the body.

Why does this matter? Because, from my point of view as the person who first came up with the idea to use “*gene therapy” and “mRNA delivery” for vaccination*, the “active drug substance” is not the gene therapy vector, it is the protein that is manufactured in your cells. So, from an FDA/regulatory point of view, these products need to be reviewed using the regulations applied to “*gene therapy*” products as well as those which apply to “vaccines”. These are NOT traditional vaccines. Therefore, the FDA should have insisted that the levels and duration of production of the transgene-encoded active drug product (spike protein) should have been well characterized. Make sense? How much spike is being made, in the body of people receiving the vaccine, for how long. Simple stuff. Pretty important.

But the FDA did not think this way, or just did not think. They treated these products like any other vaccine. They have check lists. And to their way of thinking (or not), the formulated mRNA and the adenoviral vector are the active drug product, and they did not need to insist that the product developers characterize how much and for how long the “antigen” (spike) would be produced in your body.

*The FDA was wrong..*

For example, recombinant adenoviral vectored-vaccines expressing a variety of antigens have been investigated in human clinical studies for years. I am not aware of prior problems with coagulation triggered by those vaccines. So it is reasonable to conclude that the difference is the antigen. Spike. Adenoviral vectors are designed to make lots of protein for a long period of time. So FDA should have had the developer(s) determine how much Spike is being made, and for how long. Simple stuff, right? And the developers should have had to prove that the spike protein produced is not biologically active, that that level is safe, does not bind ACE2, does not open the blood brain barrier, is not cytotoxic etc.

Does that make sense?_

_Same logic applies to the mRNA vaccines."_

======================================

Granted, I don't completely understand all this.. But when the inventor of *gene therapy and mRNA delivery* says the above, I tend to believe him. And he's not nearly the only credible person saying this. 

And why are the counties with the highest gene therapy inoculation rates experiencing the highest covid case number rates? Because the gene therapy inoculations weaken your bodies natural immune system. So that next time you encounter a virus, you might just croak. 

Why would anyone be afraid of a less than 1% chance of croaking from covid *IF* you actually got infected? Because the MSM has been creating hysteria touting the misused PCR test run at 35 cycles which produces a greater than 90% false positive rate. The *CDC has recently decided to withdraw the misused PCR test*, because they are under *litigation for crimes against humanity.*

Ok, I digress. Let's just agree to disagree and return to this topic in a couple three years, and determine who was correct. Depending on who's still alive and well that is. 

Communism is the disease, Covid 19 is just how it spreads.


----------



## SLFarmMI (Feb 21, 2013)

Hiro said:


> Yes, influenza viruses and corona viruses are distinctly different. But, the statement on the PCR tests that have been used for the last 18 months lack of discrimination between the two is not inaccurate. That is why the flu disappeared last flu season supposedly.











CDC test can’t differentiate between COVID and the flu? That’s wrong. - Poynter


While the CDC is withdrawing its EUA request for the 2019-nCoV RT-PCR test, it is not because the test is faulty.




www.poynter.org













Fact Check-CDC lab update on COVID-19 PCR tests misinterpreted


New guidelines from the U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) withdrawing their request for Emergency Use Authorization for a coronavirus test introduced in February 2020 do not mean that these polymerase chain reaction (PCR) tests have failed to differentiate...




www.reuters.com













The CDC has not said PCR tests don’t work - Full Fact


The CDC has announced it will no longer request authorisation for one type of PCR test. It is recommending others instead because they are more efficient.




fullfact.org









__





CDC's Laboratory Outreach Communication System (LOCS) | CDC







www.cdc.gov





I think you're wrong on your assertion regarding the PCR test.


----------



## Lisa in WA (Oct 11, 2004)

rebar said:


> Dr. Robert Malone, who is the *inventor* of *mRNA* vaccines was asked..
> 
> *Q:* "Why do you call the adenovirus-based (J&J) and mRNA-based vaccines *gene therapy-based vaccines*? And why is that important? Are you just trying to scare people? Are you an anti-vaxxer?
> 
> ...


Dr. Malone, who asserts he is "the inventor of mRNA vaccines" and actively cultivates vaccine skepticism, is not, and has admitted that fact: logically.ai/factchecks/lib…
Drs @kkariko and @WeissmanLab are credited with the seminal work that led to mRNA vaccines


----------



## todd_xxxx (Apr 19, 2018)

rebar said:


> Dr. Robert Malone, who is the *inventor* of *mRNA* vaccines...


Except that he didn't invent the mRNA vaccines.


----------



## Hiro (Feb 14, 2016)

SLFarmMI said:


> CDC test can’t differentiate between COVID and the flu? That’s wrong. - Poynter
> 
> 
> While the CDC is withdrawing its EUA request for the 2019-nCoV RT-PCR test, it is not because the test is faulty.
> ...


I don't believe you have a clue what a PCR test is and how it works. And how many of you are there?


----------



## SLFarmMI (Feb 21, 2013)

Hiro said:


> I don't believe you have a clue what a PCR test is and how it works. And how many of you are there?


I don't believe you read the link from the CDC which refutes your assertion about the test.


----------



## Lisa in WA (Oct 11, 2004)

GunMonkeyIntl said:


> See, that’s where I diverge from Todd, I prefer to egg Lisa on. Of course, I make sure I’m wearing goggles and clothes I don’t care about getting dirty when I do.
> 
> Your tying this to the poll response is where you’re getting it all wrong. If there’s a majority around here, it actually tends conservative, and there’s a handful of folks that you genuinely can’t pin down to one “side” or the other.* I think Lisa generally votes democrat,* but I guarantee you’d be surprised by her position on a bunch of different topics. There are several others who probably vote the way you do, but would surprise you where they come out on the issues.
> 
> ...


That will depend on who runs. I’m finding that I’m more conservative than I’d thought and I’m appalled by the far left right now. On the other hand….Trump. I think you’d find a lot more people voting Republican if the Trumpers weren’t involved.


----------



## Hiro (Feb 14, 2016)

SLFarmMI said:


> I don't believe you read the link from the CDC which refutes your assertion about the test.


Please check all the boxes that have a bicycle in the picture.


----------



## GunMonkeyIntl (May 13, 2013)

Hiro said:


> Please check all the boxes that have a bicycle in the picture.


WELL played, sir! 

<vigorous golf clap>


----------



## Shrek (May 1, 2002)

8/2/21 7:59 P.M. CDST

No I will not take a C19 vaccine because as of my blood test 3 weeks ago during my physical I still have antibodies naturally as I did last year.


----------



## GunMonkeyIntl (May 13, 2013)

Lisa in WA said:


> That will depend on who runs. I’m finding that I’m more conservative than I’d thought and I’m appalled by the far left right now. On the other hand….Trump. I think you’d find a lot more people voting Republican if the Trumpers weren’t involved.


I know. I know. And, you’re not wrong. But I can only respond with one word: _Hillarybidenharris. _


----------



## Lisa in WA (Oct 11, 2004)

GunMonkeyIntl said:


> I know. I know. And, you’re not wrong. But I can only respond with one word: _Hillarybidenharris. _


how about _IvankaDonnyJrEric. _


----------



## SLFarmMI (Feb 21, 2013)

Hiro said:


> Please check all the boxes that have a bicycle in the picture.


How sad that you can't admit that you were wrong. You know, your head won't actually explode if you do.


----------



## rebar (Jul 8, 2015)

Lisa in WA said:


> Dr. Malone, who asserts he is "the inventor of mRNA vaccines" and actively cultivates vaccine skepticism, is not, and has admitted that fact: logically.ai/factchecks/lib…
> Drs @kkariko and @WeissmanLab are credited with the seminal work that led to mRNA vaccines





todd_xxxx said:


> Except that he didn't invent the mRNA vaccines.







__





mrna vaccine inventor at DuckDuckGo


DuckDuckGo. Privacy, Simplified.




duckduckgo.com





and you were saying?


----------



## Lisa in WA (Oct 11, 2004)

rebar said:


> __
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Wow. 
I’ll bet you were always known as the smart one in your family, right?


----------



## rebar (Jul 8, 2015)

Lisa in WA said:


> Wow.
> I’ll bet you were always known as the smart one in your family, right?


 I can stoop to personal attacks too. 

Were your parents siblings?


----------



## Hiro (Feb 14, 2016)

Why are you guys arguing with bots?


----------



## SLFarmMI (Feb 21, 2013)

Hiro said:


> Why are you guys arguing with bots?


Right, anyone who disagrees with you must be a bot. What a ridiculous argument.


----------



## todd_xxxx (Apr 19, 2018)

GunMonkeyIntl said:


> I know. I know. And, you’re not wrong. But I can only respond with one word: _Hillarybidenharris. _


That's my feeling. I don't like Trump but I would have crawled naked on my belly across broken glass to vote for anyone running against Hillary, Biden is senile, and Kamala is a pig that started sleeping her way up the food chain in her 20's and has a little hissy fit if anyone dares to question her. What a cluster.


----------



## wdcutrsdaughter (Dec 9, 2012)

You're wrong

No, you're wrong

No I'm right, you're wrong

NO YOU'RE WRONG

Then comes the name calling and insults.


So predictable.

Get a clue everyone - no one is going to convince anyone to change their mind at this point, you are all wasting your time. 

There is no way people who got the injection are going to say - oh, maybe you're right, maybe I shouldn't have done that. 

It's a big deal for people to even consider all the systems are corrupt and good people within the system are also brainwashed into promoting the corruption. 

It's so much easier to call names when you don't agree. 

We reap what we sow. Good luck.


----------



## todd_xxxx (Apr 19, 2018)

wdcutrsdaughter said:


> You're wrong
> 
> No, you're wrong
> 
> ...


So, you took time to post to tell everyone that posting is a waste of time?

Why single out the people that got the injection? Because the ones that didn't are so much more likely to say "oh, maybe you're right, I should have done that"?

"all the systems are corrupt and good people within the system are also brainwashed into promoting the corruption". Pretty much a glass is half full kind of person aren't you? Is that "all the systems" in the world, or ?


----------



## Lisa in WA (Oct 11, 2004)

Hiro said:


> Why are you guys arguing with bots?


I’m guessing more of a sock puppet.


----------



## GunMonkeyIntl (May 13, 2013)

Lisa in WA said:


> how about _IvankaDonnyJrEric. _


Eric’s kind of doofey, and Jr’s got a bit of a Sean Hannity thing going on, I suppose, but what’s wrong with Ivanka? I’m pretty sure I’d vote for her over anyone else that’s been put in the race lately.


----------



## Lisa in WA (Oct 11, 2004)

GunMonkeyIntl said:


> Eric’s kind of doofey, and Jr’s got a bit of a Sean Hannity thing going on, I suppose, but what’s wrong with Ivanka? I’m pretty sure I’d vote for her over anyone else that’s been put in the race lately.


She’s Trump in a prettier package.
I don't like nepotism. 
and no, I don’t like Hunter Biden either.


----------



## GunMonkeyIntl (May 13, 2013)

Lisa in WA said:


> She’s Trump in a prettier package.
> I don't like nepotism.
> and no, I don’t like Hunter Biden either.


I’m not a fan of nepotism either, but Ivanka is WAY more articulate and intelligent than her father. No fair comparison.


----------



## SLFarmMI (Feb 21, 2013)

GunMonkeyIntl said:


> Eric’s kind of doofey, and Jr’s got a bit of a Sean Hannity thing going on, I suppose, but what’s wrong with Ivanka? I'm pretty sure I’d vote for her over anyone else that’s been put in the race lately.


So what are her accomplishments, other than being more articulate & intelligent than her father which is a rather low bar, that make her worthy of your vote?


----------



## Northof49 (Mar 3, 2018)

Checkmate!









YUGE!!! Canadian Court Victory Proves Covid-19 Is A Hoax & All Restrictions Have Now Been Dropped


Patriot Patrick King represented himself in court after being fined $1200 dollars for protesting against the Covid-Hoax, he slew the beast and emerged VICTORIOUS. He issued a subpoena to the Provincial Health Minister for proof that the so-called Co…




www.bitchute.com


----------



## GunMonkeyIntl (May 13, 2013)

SLFarmMI said:


> So what are her accomplishments, other than being more articulate & intelligent than her father which is a rather low bar, that make her worthy of your vote?


If you read the rest of my post you’d recognize that the only accomplishment required is not to be as incompetent or corrupt as her father, Mike Pence, Joe Biden, Kamala Harris, Barrack Obama, Mitt Romney, Paul Ryan, John McCain, Sarah Palin, GW Bush, Duck Cheney, John Kerry, John Edwards, Al Gore, Joe Lieberman, or Bill Clinton.

It’s a sad fact of American politics that I’m certain I could pick her a suitably qualified running mate by playing a game of _Pin the Tail on the Convict_ in the exercise yard at a federal prison for the mentally disabled.


----------



## GTX63 (Dec 13, 2016)

The cult of personality is now just one cult with two names.


----------



## SLFarmMI (Feb 21, 2013)

GunMonkeyIntl said:


> If you read the rest of my post you’d recognize that the only accomplishment required is not to be as incompetent or corrupt as her father, Mike Pence, Joe Biden, Kamala Harris, Barrack Obama, Mitt Romney, Paul Ryan, John McCain, Sarah Palin, GW Bush, Duck Cheney, John Kerry, John Edwards, Al Gore, Joe Lieberman, or Bill Clinton.
> 
> It’s a sad fact of American politics that I’m certain I could pick her a suitably qualified running mate by playing a game of _Pin the Tail on the Convict_ in the exercise yard at a federal prison for the mentally disabled.


I read your entire post. I just thought that maybe you'd have a reason for tossing her your vote other than "she's not them". My mistake for giving you too much credit.


----------



## wr (Aug 10, 2003)

Northof49 said:


> Checkmate!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


That was in Alberta. Most of the tickets for not wearing masks were quietly dropped if there was even a hint they would be challenged in court.

This was one of a few trials that Dr Hinshaw is directly involved in. I wasn’t surprised she declined to testify but at least one other has brought suit against her directly.


----------



## todd_xxxx (Apr 19, 2018)

SLFarmMI said:


> I read your entire post. I just thought that maybe you'd have a reason for tossing her your vote other than "she's not them". My mistake for giving you too much credit.


Why do nearly all of your posts have a snide remark in them? Could you not have made your point without that last sentence? I find myself agreeing with some of the things in some of your posts, but you come across as so unlikeable, it's hard to even admit you sometimes make a good point.


----------



## GunMonkeyIntl (May 13, 2013)

SLFarmMI said:


> I read your entire post. I just thought that maybe you'd have a reason for tossing her your vote other than "she's not them". My mistake for giving you too much credit.


I value “credit” from you at an importance fully appropriate to its source.


----------



## SLFarmMI (Feb 21, 2013)

todd_xxxx said:


> Why do nearly all of your posts have a snide remark in them? Could you not have made your point without that last sentence? I find myself agreeing with some of the things in some of your posts, but you come across as so unlikeable, it's hard to even admit you sometimes make a good point.


Responding to the snide tone in the first sentence I was quoting. Don't really care if you like it or if you like me.


----------



## todd_xxxx (Apr 19, 2018)

SLFarmMI said:


> Responding to the snide tone in the first sentence I was quoting. Don't really care if you like it or if you like me.


I'm quite certain you don't.


----------



## GTX63 (Dec 13, 2016)

They have to like themselves first.


----------



## wr (Aug 10, 2003)

SLFarmMI said:


> Responding to the snide tone in the first sentence I was quoting. Don't really care if you like it or if you like me.


It might be a good idea to remember that this is NOT the Dark Room nor will it become the Dark Room.


----------



## SLFarmMI (Feb 21, 2013)

wr said:


> It might be a good idea to remember that this is NOT the Dark Room nor will it become the Dark Room.


It might be a good idea to provide that reminder to others.


----------



## 101pigs (Sep 18, 2018)

painterswife said:


> I'm curious about how people's position on getting the vaccine may have changed or not.


No Change here. Got Covid 10 shot mos. ago. I will the next new shot coming out as soon as my Doctor has it to give. Was asked today while at the Doctors office about the coming shot i told them as soon as they have it i will get it. 4 of my cousins in Florida are in the hospital. Now they say get the shot. Before they said no way. God bless them and i hope they come out of the hospital soon.


----------



## Hiro (Feb 14, 2016)

SLFarmMI said:


> It might be a good idea to provide that reminder to others.


You never fail to deliver the humor, even if that isn't your intention.


----------



## Christopher Lewis (Feb 13, 2019)

painterswife said:


> I'm curious about how people's position on getting the vaccine may have changed or not.


quit calling this Theraputic Gene Therapy a vaccine!!! IT IS NOT A VACCINE!!! You are forcing your body to produce the main toxic component of Covid-19: the Spike Protein. If you got this shot I feel very sorry for you, and you should wear a mask around anyone whose body has not been reprogrammed to produce the spike protein, and with it the varients we are now seeing!!! DO SOME RESEARCH!!! QUIT LISTENING TO THE LIAR FAUCI AND THE MEDIA!


----------



## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

Christopher Lewis said:


> quit calling this Theraputic Gene Therapy a vaccine!!! IT IS NOT A VACCINE!!! You are forcing your body to produce the main toxic component of Covid-19: the Spike Protein. If you got this shot I feel very sorry for you, and you should wear a mask around anyone whose body has not been reprogrammed to produce the spike protein, and with it the varients we are now seeing!!! DO SOME RESEARCH!!! QUIT LISTENING TO THE LIAR FAUCI AND THE MEDIA!


It is a vaccine. Sorry to you don't like that truth.


----------



## JeffreyD (Dec 27, 2006)

painterswife said:


> It is a vaccine. Sorry to you don't like that truth.


Really seems more like a treatment than a vaccine. 
Can you still get covid-19 after being vaccinated?...yes.
Can you still transmit covid-19 to others even if you're vaccinated?...yes.
Can you still die from covid-19 even if your vaccinated?....yes.
So, it seems that these injections mostly curtail the symptoms rather than prevent them.
Doesn't sound like any vaccine I've ever had.
Ymmv


----------



## todd_xxxx (Apr 19, 2018)

Christopher Lewis said:


> quit calling this Theraputic Gene Therapy a vaccine!!! IT IS NOT A VACCINE!!! You are forcing your body to produce the main toxic component of Covid-19: the Spike Protein. If you got this shot I feel very sorry for you, and you should wear a mask around anyone whose body has not been reprogrammed to produce the spike protein, and with it the varients we are now seeing!!! DO SOME RESEARCH!!! QUIT LISTENING TO THE LIAR FAUCI AND THE MEDIA!


It's a vaccine, and it isn't gene therapy and you ranting doesn't change that.


----------



## Hiro (Feb 14, 2016)

todd_xxxx said:


> It's a vaccine, and it isn't gene therapy and you ranting doesn't change that.


The vaccine that was supposedly 95% effective, though that has never been achieved. The vaccine that if you got it you wouldn't have to social distance and wear a mask. The vaccine that wasn't tested on children under 12 because children that age were virtually immune to the Wuflu. I do not understand the devotion to a shot that hasn't been around even a year. Are you really that trusting of people that have been deceitful all this time?


----------



## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

Hiro said:


> The vaccine that was supposedly 95% effective, though that has never been achieved. The vaccine that if you got it you wouldn't have to social distance and wear a mask. The vaccine that wasn't tested on children under 12 because children that age were virtually immune to the Wuflu. I do not understand the devotion to a shot that hasn't been around even a year. Are you really that trusting of people that have been deceitful all this time?


95 percent effective for a different variant.


----------



## Hiro (Feb 14, 2016)

painterswife said:


> 95 percent effective for a different variant.


No, it never was. And, if you read the testing parameters for the EUA, you would know that.


----------



## poppy (Feb 21, 2008)

SLFarmMI said:


> So what are her accomplishments, other than being more articulate & intelligent than her father which is a rather low bar, that make her worthy of your vote?



She has far more common sense than both Biden and Harris put together and neither one is articulate nor intelligent.


----------



## todd_xxxx (Apr 19, 2018)

Hiro said:


> The vaccine that was supposedly 95% effective, though that has never been achieved. The vaccine that if you got it you wouldn't have to social distance and wear a mask. The vaccine that wasn't tested on children under 12 because children that age were virtually immune to the Wuflu. I do not understand the devotion to a shot that hasn't been around even a year. Are you really that trusting of people that have been deceitful all this time?


Not one thing you said has anything to do with whether it is a vaccine, which it is, or whether it is gene therapy, which it is not. Pointing out those facts has nothing to do with devotion or trusting anyone. Since nothing you said has anything to do with what I said, why quote me?


----------



## SLFarmMI (Feb 21, 2013)

poppy said:


> She has far more common sense than both Biden and Harris put together and neither one is articulate nor intelligent.


So, basically, you can't come up with one of her accomplishments. That's what I thought.


----------



## Hiro (Feb 14, 2016)

todd_xxxx said:


> Not one thing you said has anything to do with whether it is a vaccine, which it is, or whether it is gene therapy, which it is not. Pointing out those facts has nothing to do with devotion or trusting anyone. Since nothing you said has anything to do with what I said, why quote me?


Obviously, it is because of your devotion to objective observation.


----------



## TedH71 (Jan 19, 2003)

The mDNA technology has been around for 10 years if not more. We would know if it wasn't any good by now. I believe it was created for another disease/illness then that technology was adapted for COVID. Yes, I've got both sets of immunization (Pfzier) and I've not grown a 2nd head or horns by now. I'm good with that.


----------



## todd_xxxx (Apr 19, 2018)

Hiro said:


> Obviously, it is because of your devotion to objective observation.


Instead of trying to be clever after I pointed out that your post had nothing whatsoever to do with what I said, wouldn't it have been easier to either refute the points I actually made, or just not reply to me at all? I've given my reasons for getting the vaccine any number of times, and nothing about my decision was based on fauci, the media, blind trust in either political party or anything of the like. If you don't agree with me fine, but don't put a bunch of baggage on me that has nothing to do with anything I've said or believe.


----------



## rebar (Jul 8, 2015)

todd_xxxx said:


> Not one thing you said has anything to do with whether it is a vaccine, which it is, or whether it is gene therapy, which it is not. Pointing out those facts has nothing to do with devotion or trusting anyone. Since nothing you said has anything to do with what I said, why quote me?











mRNA Technology Inventor Says the FDA Dismissed His Warning Over the Dangers of COVID Vaccines - Dr. Robert Malone


Source: The Highwire https://www.TheHighwire.com Full video: https://thehighwire.com/videos/episode-221-the-mrna-insider/ SUBSCRIBE Website: https://www.TheBigLogic.com Brighteon: https://www.brighteon.com/channels/TheBigLogic BitChute: https://www.bitchute.com/TheBigLogic YouTube...




www.brighteon.com


----------



## Lisa in WA (Oct 11, 2004)

rebar said:


> mRNA Technology Inventor Says the FDA Dismissed His Warning Over the Dangers of COVID Vaccines - Dr. Robert Malone
> 
> 
> Source: The Highwire https://www.TheHighwire.com Full video: https://thehighwire.com/videos/episode-221-the-mrna-insider/ SUBSCRIBE Website: https://www.TheBigLogic.com Brighteon: https://www.brighteon.com/channels/TheBigLogic BitChute: https://www.bitchute.com/TheBigLogic YouTube...
> ...


He’s not the “inventor“ of mRNA technology. He just likes to say that. 
Some people are just like that. 
But hey…did I ever tell you that I invented post-it’s?


----------



## todd_xxxx (Apr 19, 2018)

rebar said:


> mRNA Technology Inventor Says the FDA Dismissed His Warning Over the Dangers of COVID Vaccines - Dr. Robert Malone
> 
> 
> Source: The Highwire https://www.TheHighwire.com Full video: https://thehighwire.com/videos/episode-221-the-mrna-insider/ SUBSCRIBE Website: https://www.TheBigLogic.com Brighteon: https://www.brighteon.com/channels/TheBigLogic BitChute: https://www.bitchute.com/TheBigLogic YouTube...
> ...


Guess you missed it being posted here, and ultimately admitted to by him, but he didn't invent the MRNA vaccine.


----------



## DKJ (Jan 17, 2021)

painterswife said:


> I'm curious about how people's position on getting the vaccine may have changed or not.


----------



## DKJ (Jan 17, 2021)

painterswife said:


> I'm curious about how people's position on getting the vaccine may have changed or not.


I'm not taking it. I believe in the right of the individual to govern their body, and the right to informed consent. 

When healthy, low risk people get vaccinated, they are creating a situation where the high risk individuals that have been "vaccinated" lose their protection. Please consider this last point when making your decision. I'll explain my reasoning below for those that want to read further. For those that have decided to just believe what they are told - it will be a waste of time.

Viruses naturally mutate. The more people that are vaccinated, the more pressure it puts on the virus to mutate. We now have 5 variants and counting popping up around the world. We also have massive numbers of vaccinated people sick with the Delta variant. By the time the first variant showed up in England, the current vaccines were already on their way to being ineffective. This is the reason drug companies have to develop a new flu vaccine every year - vaccinating the masses causes viral mutations which in turn require a new vaccine. Remember how they have said from the start that we might all have to take a booster shot 3 or 4 times a year, that is why. If you are unvaccinated now (and are inclined to get vaccinated) you might as well wait for the new booster. And get it early as you will most likely only have 3-6 months of protection. If we had only vaccinated a select group of high risk individuals this would not be happening, 

In talking to a molecular immunologist with 40 years research experience, I understand there will be a point where you may need these booster shots for the rest of your life to fight off the latest version of the virus, in addition to the flu shot. The changes to the immune system caused by each vaccination you take will make it far more likely that something else, cancer, heart attack, kidney failure, etc will cause early death as the changes will make it harder for your body to fight off other diseases. There is something called antibody-dependent enhancement or ADE. Another scary possibility is reverse transcriptase, which is the process by which the mRna becomes part of your DNA. And yes, I know they keep saying it can't/won't. I read multiple published medical studies predating Covid-19 and came to the conclusion it was a very real possibility, regardless of what the government is telling people. Before making a decision, maybe reading up on ADE and reverse transcriptase would enable folks to make an informed decision. I'm including two links, but there are hundreds of published papers on these two subjects, most published prior to Covid 19, but some do discuss the risks as they relate to Covid-19 vaccinations. I realize they are not easy reading for non-medical/research folks, I had to keep looking up terms as I read. I also had the advantage of calling and getting clarification from my immunologist friend. But I believe anyone can read these papers and get the gist of what they are saying.

Find your institution 




__





Reverse Transcriptase - an overview | ScienceDirect Topics







www.sciencedirect.com


----------



## DKJ (Jan 17, 2021)

Lisa in WA said:


> He’s not the “inventor“ of mRNA technology. He just likes to say that.
> Some people are just like that.
> But hey…did I ever tell you that I invented post-it’s?


I have not actually heard him say he is the inventor, the video production company seems to have labeled him as such. 

These vaccinations are the result of decades of research involving dozens of scientists. The fact there are multiple patents issued for the individual processes involved in the creation, tells you no one person "invented" the mRNA vaccine. In doing a little research, I found he did invent the technology whereby the mRNA can be introduced into the human body (late 1980's) whereas up to that point they had only been successful in doing so in mice. So one might argue without his work, the current vaccinations would not be possible, although I'm guessing if he had not found a way (coating in lipid nano particles so they pass the blood barrier), someone else would have eventually. The fact they have worked on it for 40 years tells us how hell bent they were to bring this technology to market.


----------



## Danaus29 (Sep 12, 2005)

And covid was the perfect excuse for wide-spread acceptance and use of the technology.


----------



## DKJ (Jan 17, 2021)

Danaus29 said:


> And covid was the perfect excuse for wide-spread acceptance and use of the technology.


You are so right. Now they are using a 6-month long experimental trial on 200,000 million US citizens as the justification for full approval. This is in lieu of completing the regulated long-term clinical trials, requirements of which include successful animal testing. They have NO clue what will happen to people over the course of the next 2 to 3 years. They can't even theorize based on the earlier decade of animal trials because the animals died after vaccination once they were exposed to the natural virus (which is the next step in animal testing).

And because the drug companies rushed to vaccinate the control groups in the 3-month trials once the trials were completed, there is no longer any official control group. The only basis for comparison by which to judge the long term effects are by studying the millions who have decided against getting these particular vaccinations. It is also telling that an estimated 40%+ of medical and research personnel are unwilling to get the vaccinations, whether because they are being coerced or because they fear the long term consequences. That is about the same percentage as that of unvaccinated Americans. One might reasonably expect almost 100% that group to be willing vaccinated given their knowledge of the human immune system and medical treatments. Unless they know something that is concerning them?


----------



## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

TedH71 said:


> The mDNA technology has been around for 10 years if not more. We would know if it wasn't any good by now. I believe it was created for another disease/illness then that technology was adapted for COVID. Yes, I've got both sets of immunization (Pfzier) and I've not grown a 2nd head or horns by now. I'm good with that.


I guess I missed the story of those that grew horns or a 2nd head. I did not even know that was a possible side effect. Do you have a link? That is amazing. Was that in the US?


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## no really (Aug 7, 2013)

How does this effect the use of the other vaccines?


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## DKJ (Jan 17, 2021)

Hiro said:


> The vaccine that was supposedly 95% effective, though that has never been achieved. The vaccine that if you got it you wouldn't have to social distance and wear a mask. The vaccine that wasn't tested on children under 12 because children that age were virtually immune to the Wuflu. I do not understand the devotion to a shot that hasn't been around even a year. Are you really that trusting of people that have been deceitful all this time?


Good point. I also keep in mind that these same drug companies have been fined billions by the DOJ over the past decades for violations, including outright lying and suppressing information, including that of deaths, in many of the cases. Personally, I think in criminal charges should have been brought as deaths resulted from their deliberate actions.

I don't think the vaccine was tested on anyone under the early 20's or over about 55, nor were any pregnant women, individuals with heart disease, autoimmune disease, cancer and so forth knowingly included. You'll notice when they encourage these groups of folks to get vaccinated they are very careful to say there is no evidence it will cause harm. That is NOT the same as saying they know, based on testing, it will not cause harm. 

Of course there is no evidence, one would have to look for evidence before one would have evidence. The absence of proof does not make something necessarily true or untrue, just untested. The fact they choose not to include all age groups and levels of health tells me they had a darn good idea what they would find if they did clinical testing on a broad range of ages and medical conditions. If the FDA was doing its job, they would have forced them to do so.

Also, another slight of hand was the use of the term efficacy along with a percentage. The efficacy they are talking about is whether or not people's immune systems are triggered to produce antibodies. This is vastly different than telling us the reduction in absolute risk of contracting the disease, or more importantly, dying from the virus. So far, that latter risk seems to be around 1%, less for some age groups. That's the number I care about!


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## Danaus29 (Sep 12, 2005)

DKJ said:


> You are so right. Now they are using a 6-month long experimental trial on 200,000 million US citizens as the justification for full approval. This is in lieu of completing the regulated long-term clinical trials, requirements of which include successful animal testing. They have NO clue what will happen to people over the course of the next 2 to 3 years. They can't even theorize based on the earlier decade of animal trials because the animals died after vaccination once they were exposed to the natural virus (which is the next step in animal testing).


Well that animal testing note is very comforting. _sarcasm intended_


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## DKJ (Jan 17, 2021)

Danaus29 said:


> Well that animal testing note is very comforting. _sarcasm intended_


Yep, that fact keeps me firmly in the unvaccinated camp.


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## wdcutrsdaughter (Dec 9, 2012)

HDRider said:


> I guess I missed the story of those that grew horns or a 2nd head. I did not even know that was a possible side effect. Do you have a link? That is amazing. Was that in the US?


The post said NOT grown horns or a head.

Did the shot harm your eyesight?!!



I kid, I kid, truly just kidding, trying to be funny.

let's all try and laugh more


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

wdcutrsdaughter said:


> The post said NOT grown horns or a head.
> 
> Did the shot harm your eyesight?!!
> 
> ...


I know you see light when others see darkness, but he made a joke about people's hesitancy in a very disrespective tone.

Regarding my eyes


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## Cheryl in SD (Apr 22, 2005)

Not a space for my answer...
Not going to get it because we already had Covid.


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## MO_cows (Aug 14, 2010)

I was in favor of the vaccines after the first million or so doses and low rate of problems from them. Our whole household had covid, luckily a mild version, in spite of not much exposure to the outside world. Felt like I was doing my part to slow the spread and save people whose health was already compromised when I got the vaccine.

But now my fully vaccinated mother has covid and will be in quarantine for Thanksgiving.


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## Lisa in WA (Oct 11, 2004)

No, and I just got my booster last week.


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## no really (Aug 7, 2013)

No it hasn't, everyone should have the choice without repercussions, threats and loss of livelihood.


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## Wellbuilt (Dec 25, 2020)

NO , I’m not that guy . 
I know 6 people that have covid now , 4 are faxed and they are all sick. 
One is very sick 21 year old boy faxed . 
It looks even to me , my daughter was exposed and sick all week but no + covid Test 🤷‍♂️


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1462216999682125828


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1462525655653003270


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## Redlands Okie (Nov 28, 2017)

Well it has been some time since the OP and it seems I have changed my mind. I was thinking give it some time and see what happens then I probably would. Well some time has gone by and I have no plans to get vaccinated. Just not enough down side to worry about it at this time.


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## poppy (Feb 21, 2008)

Redlands Okie said:


> Well it has been some time since the OP and it seems I have changed my mind. I was thinking give it some time and see what happens then I probably would. Well some time has gone by and I have no plans to get vaccinated. Just not enough down side to worry about it at this time.


Saw a study earlier in the UK showing the death rate of all causes there among those aged 10 to 59 was more than double among the vaccinated compared to the unvaccinated. A German study of 16 countries shows the same thing. The higher the vaccine rate, the higher the death of all causes rate.


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## Hiro (Feb 14, 2016)

This may need further examination:

 At the time of this report, these changes persist for at least 2.5 months post second dose of vac.We conclude that the mRNA vacs dramatically increase inflammation on the endothelium and T cell infiltration of cardiac muscle and may account for the observations of increased thrombosis, cardiomyopathy, and other vascular events following vaccination.


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## JeffreyD (Dec 27, 2006)

Hiro said:


> This may need further examination:
> 
> At the time of this report, these changes persist for at least 2.5 months post second dose of vac.We conclude that the mRNA vacs dramatically increase inflammation on the endothelium and T cell infiltration of cardiac muscle and may account for the observations of increased thrombosis, cardiomyopathy, and other vascular events following vaccination.


Yup, i just read about that. That, is more scary than covid. What are they going to find out about this "vaccine" next?


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## Danaus29 (Sep 12, 2005)

JeffreyD said:


> Yup, i just read about that. That, is more scary than covid. What are they going to find out about this "vaccine" next?


And just as important, once _they_ find out, how long will it be before they release that information to the public?


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## poppy (Feb 21, 2008)

Danaus29 said:


> And just as important, once _they_ find out, how long will it be before they release that information to the public?



Exactly. I have no doubt they already have information they have not released because it does not fit their narrative. I base that solely on their already proven broken promises and lies.


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## boatswain2PA (Feb 13, 2020)

poppy said:


> Saw a study earlier in the UK showing the death rate of all causes there among those aged 10 to 59 was more than double among the vaccinated compared to the unvaccinated. A German study of 16 countries shows the same thing. The higher the vaccine rate, the higher the death of all causes rate.


Please link to this study because it flies against every other study.

So far, the sum of the data is vaccines are not as good as TPTB said it was going to be, but still likely the best (and good, albeit not great) tool to prevent morbidity/mortality and spreading of the disease.

One possible (likely?) explanation would be those who have more comorbidities would be more likely to get the vaccines, but still more likely to die than others. (Similar to the previous studies that showed Israel had greater percentage of vaccinated hospital patients than unvaccinated....because almost everyone was vaccinated).


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## Wolf mom (Mar 8, 2005)

"The higher the vaccine rate, the higher the death of all causes rate." to quote Poppy 

Least vaccinated - least number of cases.....








Scientists mystified, wary, as Africa avoids COVID disaster - Breitbart


When the coronavirus first emerged last year, health officials feared the pandemic would sweep across Africa, killing millions and destroying the




www.breitbart.com


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## Forcast (Apr 15, 2014)




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## Redlands Okie (Nov 28, 2017)

boatswain2PA said:


> Please link to this study because it flies against every other study.
> 
> So far, the sum of the data is vaccines are not as good as TPTB said it was going to be, but still likely the best (and good, albeit not great) tool to prevent morbidity/mortality and spreading of the disease.
> 
> One possible (likely?) explanation would be those who have more comorbidities would be more likely to get the vaccines, but still more likely to die than others. (Similar to the previous studies that showed Israel had greater percentage of vaccinated hospital patients than unvaccinated....because almost everyone was vaccinated).


Vaccine prevents spreading ? Even the manufacturers do not seem to claim this.


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## boatswain2PA (Feb 13, 2020)

Redlands Okie said:


> Vaccine prevents spreading ? Even the manufacturers do not seem to claim this.


Probably (almost assuredly) REDUCES spreading, as less-sick patients probably (almost assuredly) have a lower viral load to share with their family and friends.

The vaccines are not great, and they do come with a slight risk. But they are, so far, the best tool we have. 
I'm hoping molnupiravir works as well as they say it does. If so, and it has a good safety profile, then it will come down to rapid testing centers that can hand this stuff out like candy.


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## Danaus29 (Sep 12, 2005)

boatswain2PA said:


> Probably (almost assuredly) REDUCES spreading, as less-sick patients probably (almost assuredly) have a lower viral load to share with their family and friends.
> 
> The vaccines are not great, and they do come with a slight risk. But they are, so far, the best tool we have.
> I'm hoping molnupiravir works as well as they say it does. If so, and it has a good safety profile, then it will come down to rapid testing centers that can hand this stuff out like candy.


They have no idea if the vaccine reduces the spread since the vaccinated are not being tested as much as the unvaccinated.


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## boatswain2PA (Feb 13, 2020)

Danaus29 said:


> They have no idea if the vaccine reduces the spread since the vaccinated are not being tested as much as the unvaccinated.


We have no PROOF, but we have an idea. While covid is certainly a novel virus and disease, it is still a viral illness. We know a lot about coronavirus', and virus' in general. We know that with every other viral disease out there, the more severe the illness the higher the viral load, the greater the transmissibility.


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## Danaus29 (Sep 12, 2005)

But no viral illness has ever been subjected to a mRNA therapy before. The new mRNA therapy makes a huge difference.

This study suggests no difference in viral loads between vaccinated and unvaccinated persons 6 months post vaccination.









Viral loads of Delta-variant SARS-CoV-2 breakthrough infections after vaccination and booster with BNT162b2 - Nature Medicine


Vaccination with BNT162b2 is associated with lower viral load in breakthrough infections of SARS-CoV-2, but this effect wanes at 2 months and vanishes at 6 months after vaccination. A third vaccine doseâ€”or boosterâ€”restores the reduction in viral load.




www.nature.com


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## boatswain2PA (Feb 13, 2020)

Danaus29 said:


> But no viral illness has ever been subjected to a mRNA therapy before. The new mRNA therapy makes a huge difference.
> 
> This study suggests no difference in viral loads between vaccinated and unvaccinated persons 6 months post vaccination.
> 
> ...


That study shows reduced viral loads in breakthrough infections in patients vaccinated <2 months before, but then normalize.

I don't see how the vaccine being an mRNA
could have anything to do with it. I would say more likely to be because it's a dang coronavirus.


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## Danaus29 (Sep 12, 2005)

That is true, but after 2 months the viral load reduction starts to decline. The only way to keep the viral loads reduced is a booster every 6 months.


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## no really (Aug 7, 2013)

When are the illegals, congress, federal judges and staff going to be mandated to take the vax?


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## Redlands Okie (Nov 28, 2017)

Data from COVID-19 tests in the United States, the United Kingdom and Singapore are showing that vaccinated people who become infected with Delta SARS-CoV-2 can carry as much virus in their nose as do unvaccinated people. 









How do vaccinated people spread Delta? What the science says


Emerging data suggest that Delta could spread more readily than other coronavirus variants among people vaccinated against COVID-19. But key questions remain.




www.nature.com







Infections with the Delta variant in vaccinated persons POTENTIALLY have reduced transmissibility than infections in unvaccinated persons,









Coronavirus Disease 2019 (COVID-19)


CDC provides credible COVID-19 health information to the U.S.




www.cdc.gov








Seems the lack of proof part is a major factor in the question of covid transmission by those vaccinated. The vaccines do seem to substantially help reduce severe illness and hospitalization.


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## poppy (Feb 21, 2008)

Redlands Okie said:


> Data from COVID-19 tests in the United States, the United Kingdom and Singapore are showing that vaccinated people who become infected with Delta SARS-CoV-2 can carry as much virus in their nose as do unvaccinated people.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Either that or doctors claiming the Delta variant was more infectious but less deadly are right. That often happens when viruses mutate or sometimes the reverse is true.


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## muleskinner2 (Oct 7, 2007)

Still no.


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## altair (Jul 23, 2011)

I was vaccinated for a slew of things as a child, this one's just another drop in the bucket.


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## MoonRiver (Sep 2, 2007)

boatswain2PA said:


> Probably (almost assuredly) REDUCES spreading, as less-sick patients probably (almost assuredly) have a lower viral load to share with their family and friends.
> 
> The vaccines are not great, and they do come with a slight risk. But they are, so far, the best tool we have.
> I'm hoping molnupiravir works as well as they say it does. If so, and it has a good safety profile, then it will come down to rapid testing centers that can hand this stuff out like candy.


Why would you say that when there are many off-label drugs, as well as over-the-counter drugs and supplements, that are effective for treatment.



https://covid19criticalcare.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/12/FLCCC-Protocols-%E2%80%93-A-Guide-to-the-Management-of-COVID-19.pdf


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## GunMonkeyIntl (May 13, 2013)

altair said:


> I was vaccinated for a slew of things as a child, this one's just another drop in the bucket.


So was I. The things I was vaccinated for were very serious illnesses with high mortality rates, and my body’s reaction to the vaccinations still protects me from the diseases decades later.

Covid, on the other hand, is a bad cold, similar to the flu. And, also like the flu, it’s constantly mutating into new variants that slip right by the defenses your body built against the “vaccination” you took. The result is that you’ll end up having to take new “vaccinations” every few months for the rest of your life.

There is no reasonable comparison to be made between the Covid shot and actual, legitimate vaccinations.


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## Grafton County Couple (Sep 20, 2018)

OP: My choice is none of your business.
Actually, I kind of like the recent response to a media member's vaccine question made by the AG of Arizona.


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## boatswain2PA (Feb 13, 2020)

MoonRiver said:


> Why would you say that when there are many off-label drugs, as well as over-the-counter drugs and supplements, that are effective for treatment.
> 
> 
> 
> https://covid19criticalcare.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/12/FLCCC-Protocols-%E2%80%93-A-Guide-to-the-Management-of-COVID-19.pdf


The data isn't there for the early treatment drugs yet. While these meds are all very safe, and I personally wouldn't object to trying them, there isn't good enough data that shows they work.

We now have very good data that the vaccines significantly reduce death and severe disease, at least for a little while.

Monoclonal antibody infusion had very good data as well, but appears to be falling off with further studies.

Molnupiravir sounds great, but that is based on manufacturers data, so salt should be applied.


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## altair (Jul 23, 2011)

GunMonkeyIntl said:


> So was I. The things I was vaccinated for were very serious illnesses with high mortality rates, and my body’s reaction to the vaccinations still protects me from the diseases decades later.
> 
> Covid, on the other hand, is a bad cold, similar to the flu. And, also like the flu, it’s constantly mutating into new variants that slip right by the defenses your body built against the “vaccination” you took. The result is that you’ll end up having to take new “vaccinations” every few months for the rest of your life.
> 
> There is no reasonable comparison to be made between the Covid shot and actual, legitimate vaccinations.


Of course it can mutate to be more virulent, or less so and be totally harmless. I'll reevaluate as needed. I'm around vulnerable people and don't want to be one of the ones who catches it and still recovering after months. Too busy for that.


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## GunMonkeyIntl (May 13, 2013)

altair said:


> Of course it can mutate to be more virulent, or less so and be totally harmless. I'll reevaluate as needed. I'm around vulnerable people and don't want to be one of the ones who catches it and still recovering after months. Too busy for that.


Understood, but the Covid vaccine shot is not going keep you from catching it or transmitting it to someone else. At best, it slightly reduces your chances. That slight improvement in chance may be worth it, and that’s a decision each individual has to make for themselves, but the months of lying about its efficacy doesn’t make the Covid shot any less of a joke than it is.

The only thing that shot has proven efficacy on is making Pfizer, the payer of the single largest criminal fine in US history, money to pay back said fine.


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## SLFarmMI (Feb 21, 2013)

Grafton County Couple said:


> OP: My choice is none of your business.


You hit the nail on the head. It's getting so that people are asking your vaccination status before they ask your name. I think I'm going to start responding to the question with "Hey, since you're so interested in my medical information, would you like to see the home movies of my latest colonoscopy?"


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## Docdubz (Aug 10, 2020)

Imagine being afraid of a cold. What a world this has turned into.


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## Forcast (Apr 15, 2014)




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## altair (Jul 23, 2011)

GunMonkeyIntl said:


> Understood, but the Covid vaccine shot is not going keep you from catching it or transmitting it to someone else. At best, it slightly reduces your chances. That slight improvement in chance may be worth it, and that’s a decision each individual has to make for themselves, but the months of lying about its efficacy doesn’t make the Covid shot any less of a joke than it is.
> 
> The only thing that shot has proven efficacy on is making Pfizer, the payer of the single largest criminal fine in US history, money to pay back said fine.


Exactly, could help a little or a lot depending on the scenario. But the whole virus deal is a raw one (except for the pharmaceutical companies).


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## Docdubz (Aug 10, 2020)

altair said:


> Exactly, could help a little or a lot depending on the scenario. But the whole virus deal is a raw one (except for the pharmaceutical companies).


Especially when you look at the differences in how places dealt with it. Where I am very few people ever fell into the hysteria and so few were listening to the mask garbage that they cancelled the mandate here quickly. And yet everyone is just fine. If it werent for the internet and everything getting more expensive I would have had no idea there was even some supposedly super scary illness. Im pretty sure thats all this ever was, fearful people are easy to manipulate and nothing makes people fearful like something that is supposedly deadly and they have no control over.


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