# New pasture and farm layout



## Tlutz (Nov 9, 2012)

Hello, i am new here and new to sheep and farming. I have been reading here for a few months. I wanted to throw out some topics to talk over and hope people who have been doing this for awhile can help me with my planning...maybe bring up some things i have not even thought of yet.

Right now my land is crop land, no barn or structures other then my house. I want to turn 5 acres into pasture and paddocks. Start small and grow my flock as big as the land will support. The 5 acres is about 900' x 250'.

1. Im thinking wood post fencing with 5 high tensile wires. Would love page wire but the cost to do 5 acres would be so much more. What is the max distance between post i can go. My land is mostly flat, its all at about a 5-10% slope.

2. How many paddocks would be best on 5 acres? any ideas on layout. Would small multiple run-in shelters be better or one larger shelter they can use and also be used for lambing...locating it kind of in the middle with permanent walkways to all the paddocks. How far will sheep walk for shelter or water, what is a safe distance to keep everything located. Im kind of lost on best layout.

3. How do you handle water, mainly talking to those of you who dont have any ponds or streams on your land, and have various paddocks you rotate. My house is on city water, no well. I would like to drill a well but not right away, again i want to start small and not drop a ton of money. Get my feet wet first.


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## scarlet812 (Feb 18, 2013)

If I were you, I would go ahead with getting a well sooner rather than later. Getting it done won't get any cheaper as the years go by, so why wait? Also, you are just going to run up your city water bill if you rely on that for all your water. You could make a little pump house over it and be able to run hoses out from it. 

You might also want to start gathering water from your existing gutter system on your house, running into rain barrels, as one way to collect water instead of running up your water bill. You could set up the same thing on any outbuildings you add; our barn has no gutters and the roof line is really high up, but I'd still like to pursue that idea.

We have to use a lot of garden hose at our place. We have 3 acres, with the house kind of centered, toward the front, where the road goes by. The only outdoor faucet we had was on the front of the house. Not very helpful! We do have well water, and that is on the far edge of the property past the barn. 

My husband made a water line from the well house going inside the barn, where he installed a faucet and built a warming box around it for winter. He put heat tape around the buried water line, since he did it by hand and it's not very deeply buried. The inside has a plywood box built around the faucet hook up, and just put a clip lamp in there.

I am in the same boat with trying to figure out what to put where, as we work toward adding sheep and small hogs to our place. We have a large old barn, but there is a lot of good grass area on the opposite end of the property, so I have to figure it out. I'm also trying to decide where to position a vegetable garden, so that I can reach it with the hose.

We're surrounded by open farmer's fields, so coyotes are a concern in my planning. So much to figure out!


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## J.T.M. (Mar 2, 2008)

When placing barns , home ,pens ect. Always take into account wind direction .
Ex : 
I have a hog pen that is north-east of my house .In the spring/summer/fall ... winds are from the south/southwest .In the winter winds are from the west/northwest . I have had 500 pigs back there and no body smelled a thing .
If I had a scanner Id post a pic. to help un-garble my words


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## Callieslamb (Feb 27, 2007)

You are fortunate to be working from scratch in respect to working things out the way you'd like them. However, how do you know what you'd like if you haven't experienced housing animals before? Since you have the choice, you might try simple run-in type shelters that are temporary until you see what works best for you. I have some of the hog shelters (metal U-shaped things) that I can move around to where they are needed. I'd do the same with fencing. Fence the perimeter and use electric netting until you see where things work the best for you. I had to make do with what came with the place.

My property is very long and narrow. The house is at the front and all the land behind it. The barn is about 200 ft from the house and to one side of the property. I have a small amount of 'barnyard' around the barn on all sides. The pastures are directly behind and to the side of the barn. The land is divided into 2 halves and I further divide that with electric fencing into 4 smaller pastures. I'd like to divide it further, but then they'd all have to go too far from the barn to graze for water and shade. I don't have shade or water anywhere except at the barn so we use the barnyard area to direct their grazing to one of the 4 pastures. All join at the barn or near enough to it to be included in the barnyard. We opted for a shelter outside the barn that we roll up or down the sides depending on the season. It's still a bit more walking for them than I'd like from one of the pastures, but it seems to work well with what we have. 

The pastures are the closest to the barn, the hay fields are the furthest. When we have too much grass in spring, we hay parts of the pasture and vice versa with the hay fields when the grass gets thin in July/Aug if needed. 

High tensile will keep sheep in but might not keep predators out unless you electrify it. We're switching from all electric to woven wire fencing. If I didn't have water at the barn, I'd put a tank on a pallet and fill it where ever, and move it to the pastures with the tractor.


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## Tlutz (Nov 9, 2012)

Scarlet812....
Thanks, i have been going back and forth on the well, your right it wont be getting any cheaper to have it done.
Is there any concerns on gathering water from asphault shingle roof?

J.T.M....
Thats a very good point, i have been taking note to the direstion of the winds during different times of the year. This is our first winter on this land.

Callieslamb....
Your right, we dont know what we will like without any experience...but we have to start somewhere. Someone else gave me the same advise. To do a perimeter fence then just go with small moveable shelters to start as well as temp fence to change things around as we need to or want to.
You say you have water at the barn, how far do they walk from pasture to barn? So many things to think about :shocked:


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## J.T.M. (Mar 2, 2008)

Things don't have to be perfect right off the bat .I only have one water source also .
This can also be pulled behind a lawn tractor / cart . The pool I have had for years. It doubles as a goose pond as well 
View attachment 5050


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## Callieslamb (Feb 27, 2007)

Tlutz said:


> ....Callieslamb....Your right, we dont know what we will like without any experience...but we have to start somewhere. Someone else gave me the same advise. To do a perimeter fence then just go with small moveable shelters to start as well as temp fence to change things around as we need to or want to.
> You say you have water at the barn, how far do they walk from pasture to barn? So many things to think about :shocked:


And that's the rub...you don't have experience until you get started and you need it to know what to get started with. My animals only have to walk 1000 ft at most to get to the water or shade. It's not that bad. It's probably most important when the ewes are nursing lambs or if you have a milk cow. We've found that moveable fencing is what works for us. Though I think DH curses it under his breath because if we can move it- I usually want to move it. We use a lot of cattle panels. With temporary shelters, you'll want to plan some place safe, dry and close to keep feed and hay. 

Because we use the area immediately around the barn all the time, it gets mucky when it's wet out. We're flat and there's no way the water is going to drain off. So we deal with it as best as we can. We'd like to build a more permanent shade/winter shelter for them off the back of the barn some day.

What we don't have is easy access to get to the hay fields. We have at least 2 gates to get through sometimes more and any entry to the barn from the wagon, still leaves 40 ft to carry the hay. We still haven't figured out how to make that easier.


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## Slev (Nov 29, 2003)

...start from the ground up...! You say it's crop land not pasture, take soil samples before you even start. It's a lot easier to fix the land before you even fence it. High tensile doesn't work all that well on wooly sheep unless it's actually on, and even then my one friend had lots of problems with it. (ex. don't go maximum distance with rods, it leaves too much wiggle room for the sheep to get past) Also, I would design a really fortified paddock up close to your barn/structure maybe with cattle panels or the like, for a true secure/safe place in case you experiance "problems" with fencing, preditors/dogs etc. YES on the well sooner than later, and as much trouble as I have I'd also include the old fashioned hand-pump at one location in case.. Hoop house structures may not be a bad idea, they are semi portable in case you cange your lay out and fairly adaptable, or I also like the portable hog huts like what Wendle snagged. You can pull them with a 4X4 or tractor in line, or peak to peak to form a little barn-like structure for winter. 

Here in the Midwest we can get 5-7 head of sheep per acre, double check for out east. Also I've heard foot-rot can be a big concern so consider that. In fact, best to contact local sheep producers and extension agents for their "local" tips and advice, perhaps seeing your property will provide others with offering you the best advice of all, plus their experiances should prove to be a big help I would think. Join ASI and a local sheep group for more advice. Good luck...! and welcome...


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## Bret4207 (May 31, 2008)

If I can make one suggestion- unless you have or can train your sheep to respect electric fence you will have issues. I had a 5 wire high tensile fence, every other wire was ground. The sheep laughed at it no matter how well it was grounded or how large the charger. I switched to electric net fence and hair sheep and it's a different story. But! My perimeter fence is still Paige wire, especially along the road. 

If you can train them from birth you may be okay with electric wire, otherwise they just push through and where one sheep goes the rest will follow.


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## scarlet812 (Feb 18, 2013)

Tlutz said:


> Scarlet812....
> Thanks, i have been going back and forth on the well, your right it wont be getting any cheaper to have it done.
> Is there any concerns on gathering water from asphault shingle roof?


I'm so glad you brought that up because I had not thought about it. :smack I'm Googling and finding lots of debate whether it's safe to use that water for veggie gardens but so far nothing about using it for animals.  I guess the best thing to do would be get a sample and have it tested. Some people say the roof materials aren't as much of an issue as the bird poop germs. LOL There is "first flush" component that can be worked in, to divert the initial run off from what you end up using, since that's the part that has the most bird poop and debris in it.


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## bruce2288 (Jul 10, 2009)

I would get yyour pasture planted this year and not plan of grazing it much till next year.


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## bergere (May 11, 2002)

I was collecting rain water from the roof here... it was so merky, had junk in it and smelled. 
We had to put a new roof on the main part of the house last year, so that might be part of it?
Doubt the animals would of touched that water. Maybe if you have a fine screen of some sort?

Here,,, am starting all over again. Right now we are just running hoses from the house... out to the animals... is a royal pain in the winter here. Not something I would recommend if you can help it.
This place, since we are getting older.... We are putting in Cattle panels for the most part, and lines of hot wire off that. Much less work than the Woven field fence we used to put in.
We don't want to have to repair fence and DH is getting to old to run out in the middle of the night in his underwear. with his shot gun to protect the animals. 

Knew someone that had a super nice 5 acre mini farm. She had walk ways in between the pastures, so she could easily access each pasture with out going through one. Also allowed her to move sheep down the aisles when rotating pastures and such.
Each pasture had a small run in shelter and a non freezing water faucet. 
The way she had the planting done, (nothing toxic to sheep), it made the place look a whole lot bigger than it was. 
Along with the many sheep pastures, she had a kitchen garden with a small green house, small Orchard, chicken house and yard........
The place was just incredible. They didn't have a lot of money but they sure put a lot of work into it.

What you could do, is draw some designs out, what you think would work for you on your place. Walk the property to see what you think would work best.

This Web site is an interesting read.
http://www.ranching-with-sheep.com/livestock-fencing.html


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## wendle (Feb 22, 2006)

Invest the time and money to make sure your perimeter fence is secure first. I like woven wire (48") with hot wire on top. I also agree with Slev's idea on making a very secure pen close to the house in case of predators, lambing, catching, etc. Cattle panels work good for this. Size will depend on how many sheep, and build on it as your flock grows. I try to get at least a few more cattle panels every year. For divider fencing it's a good idea start out with electric portable fencing. This way you can get an idea on where you like fencing before going permanent. I use Premier electronet.. When installing gates and fencing keep in mind waterways, low spots, and erosion. What might seem like a good area can quickly become a mud hole with more traffic. For ease of rotating when you eventually divide into more sections try to make the gates centrally located. I have my sorting system set up so I can easily move sheep to 5 different fields from a central location. I could also water them in that same location no matter which pen they are coming from. I also have my loading ramp set up within the same area. Keep an eye out for used gates and panels to save money.


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## Lazy J (Jan 2, 2008)

Before you do anything you need to learn how the land lays and how the water runs off!


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## Tlutz (Nov 9, 2012)

Thanks for all the ideas and thoughts, lots of good information to look into. Right now the land is rented to a farmer, we bought the place this past summer so i need to talk with the farmer about when i will take the land back. I want to be fair with giving him notice, plus i have plently to get ready for.
I will try to get pictures soon of the land. The 5 acres i want to use seems to drain very well. Its on top of a hill and has a gentle slope, no dips or valleys.
Next saturday i will be attending an all day Lambing Clinic. Half the day is classroom with guest shepards and a veterinarian and the other half of the day is hand on in the barn. This should be a big help even though i dont think i will have any animals till next year


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## Callieslamb (Feb 27, 2007)

I love clinics - they are very informative and I've learned a lot from them.


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## jackp (Jan 9, 2013)

Woven wire with a hot wire at the top on the perimeter will keep sheep in and predators out. Use moveable electric fencing for interior paddocks by clipping to the hot wire.


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## sheepish (Dec 9, 2006)

Pastures don't have to be rectangular. You may not need aisles to access them on a small holding. Aisles use valuable grazing land.

We have about 70 ewes and at least 3 rams at any time on our farm.

We have a barnyard that is very secure for predators. It has water access all year round. Every pasture leads off from it. A former 5 acre pasture has been divided into 3 by triangles with a point leading to collecting gates at the barnyard. There is also a 1 1/2 acre pasture and a 1 acre paddock with a 1 acre extension that is used to store farm equipment, but is cleared out for grazing a couple of times a year. 

Do you intend to get winter hay off the pastures? That takes very special management. We found it didn't work well for us even with fewer animals because of variable rainfall and excellent drainage. We get all our hay off the farm on rented land.


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## bergere (May 11, 2002)

We did what we called a "Night Pasture", we couldn't afford to do this all the way around.
Was around 2 1/2 acres. 

It is 8' tall (9 and 10' tall, with the slope in some areas on the other side), heavy duty T posts 8' tall, set every 7', camel back every 100', heavy duty hot wire with a predator rated charger. The woven field fence was properly stretched.

In Oregon, we had a very aggressive and active predator base. This fence kept the big male black bear out, even though he was trying his best to get in. Also kept out the cougars, bob cats, packs of coyotes....









Gates area also a very weak link.... We put, what we call, Sweeps,, top and some time the bottom, with Hot wire over the top. That hot wire, was tall enough I could ride a horse under and if you were careful, we could get our tractor under it too.









Here, we are changing over to Cattle panels from woven wire. The cattle panels can handle packs of dogs hitting it, the woven wire doesn't do as well.


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## dkhern (Nov 30, 2012)

if you dont drill well check w/water utility about a second meter. one that the water line isnt tied into sewer. sewer cost are the expensive part of water utility. they do these for sprinklers should apply to animal water. id use metal post. here they are cheeper and much faster and less labor to install. 10' on spacing w/pull post every so often and 6-8" wood corners well braced. id also use wover wire on premeter. good luck


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## Tlutz (Nov 9, 2012)

sheepish said:


> Pastures don't have to be rectangular. You may not need aisles to access them on a small holding. Aisles use valuable grazing land.
> 
> We have about 70 ewes and at least 3 rams at any time on our farm.
> 
> ...


I have been playing around with some different ways to divide it up. Aisles have been a concern (wasted grazing space).
Right now im not thinking i will not get hay from the pasture. My plan (right now anyway) is to fence 5 acres and place some structures on that 5 acres. I have another 4 acres i could (later down the road) turn into hay or some type of winter stockpile or expand to additional pasture. All will depend how things go, im going to start small and adjust and grow as i go. Starting out i think the 5 acres is going to be way more then i need, but still plan to perimeter fence all 5 acres from the start.


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## Tlutz (Nov 9, 2012)

bergere said:


> We did what we called a "Night Pasture", we couldn't afford to do this all the way around.
> Was around 2 1/2 acres.


WOW i dont think anything is getting in there. I have coyotes in the area but not sure if they are around my land, im sure they are. Have never seen any but my buddy traps so i know we have them here.


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## Tlutz (Nov 9, 2012)

sheepish said:


> Pastures don't have to be rectangular. You may not need aisles to access them on a small holding. Aisles use valuable grazing land.
> 
> We have about 70 ewes and at least 3 rams at any time on our farm.
> 
> ...


 
Ok i`ll try this agian...lost that post somewhere grrrrr
Im playing around with different ways to divide it up. Aisles have been a concern. Not sure just yet if having them outweighs the loss of grazing area.
I dont plan to get hay from the pasture. My plan (at least for right now) is to perimeter fence the 5 acres and add some structures. Later down the road i have another 4 acres i would like to use as hay or some type of winter stockpile area. I think starting out the 5 acres will be more then i need. I want to start small and grow things as i need to. In the long run i would like to have all 9 acres in use.


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## jwal10 (Jun 5, 2010)

I think you have the right idea, start small, get a couple open ewes and get used to sheep. Breed when ready. Things change so go cheap to start, except perimeter fence, you need that no matter what you do in the future. Woven wire only for me, with barb under and 2 over, 4' tall total. I used a lot of 32" wire, cheaper. Plant all in 1 piece and get that going, you can divide as needed. I like to get water lines in so not so much hose needed, right down the middle is good, you can go back and put in hydrants where needed later. I don't like aisles on such small pieces, if all pasture just go through them to get where you want to be. I like a shed in each, I built mine on skids, 8'x12', had a trailer when I had sheep all over the county, moved as needed. 3 parcels is enough to rotate to....James


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## ErikaMay (Feb 28, 2013)

I would also suggest going to visit other sheep-folks in your area. You can get ideas just looking at how different people deal with the same problem. Infact, I plan on trying to copy a barn design from some folks I bought a ram from. 

I'm in Oregon, too, and my fences stink right now, but I have a 500 lb sow guarding my sheep. I think even the bears are afraid of her! So one oregonian put up a mega fence, and we just use a guard animal.


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