# Coyotes...in Upstate NY?!



## zealot (Feb 6, 2006)

I was just reading last night, in the Countryside magazine's quail article, that there is a "local faction of coyotes" in the area of Spencerport, NY where Tony Marchese and his daughters live.

I had not known that coyotes were anywhere east of the Mississippi River. There are a few here and more out west, but are there really coyotes in New York state? Or did he just mean some sort of fox or wolf?


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## tamarackreg (Mar 13, 2006)

Yes, coyotes have spread almost everywhere east of the Mississippi. Take a listen after dark, maybe you can hear them yipping and howling. Another sign is the hind quarters eaten out of dead deer. Their footprints are different than a domestic dogs, once you see them they're fairly easy to recognize.
Check NY game laws, they make good "off season" hunting.


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## woodspirit (Aug 3, 2005)

Yup we have them everywhere here and bears and rattlesnakes too. The coyotes are bigger than the coyotes out west by a good margin. The studies they've done on them suggest they are more wolf than coyote.


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## cowgirlone (May 9, 2002)

woodspirit is right! I've heard that the coyotes in that area have bred with dogs and are pretty large.
I think kincorafarms was talking about them being huge in her area.

I'm glad we have the smaller ones here!


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## longshadowfarms (Nov 27, 2002)

Being not far from Woodspirit and Kincora Farms I will say yes we have Coyotes. Yes they are larger then the western version. I have seen females going over 45 lbs. Males wellmover fifty. There is lots of speculation why they are so big. But due to this size they are sometimes referred to as brushwolves.

New York has an amazing amount of wildlife though small game is declining due to the coyotes, birds of prey and I believe the successful return of the Eastern Wild Turkey. We also have worldclass fishing in this area. For those of you now scratching your heads and saying New York? Think of this, We are further away from New York City physically and Politically then the states of Connecticut, New Jersey, Massachusets, Rhode Island and Delaware. 
Unfortunately we pay the big taxes here.

RW


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## mink (Feb 10, 2005)

yes theres alot of coyotes in new york ....around here we call them coydogs. like the others were saying they weigh 40-50 pounds.....mink


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## Guest (Feb 11, 2007)

If you have coyoties, then it wont be long before you will be seeing armadillo's and roadrunner's. If you haven't already!

That's the way it was here back in the 70's. If a person saw a armadillo or a roadrunner it would be talked about for days.


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## mtman (Sep 2, 2004)

i love them i go to sleep with them howling every night


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## annie716 (Oct 4, 2006)

We have lots of them also, we live near the PA border and I saw a flyer the other day at the gas station announcing a coyote hunt in that area.


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## tooltime (Nov 16, 2003)

I've got a friend who lives in Columbia County, NY, and coyotes are seen frequently there.

I read that coyotes in the East have hybridized with the eastern red wolf, which may explain why they are larger than western coyotes.


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## pancho (Oct 23, 2006)

The only difference in the coyotes east of the Ms. and those west of the Ms. is the enviroment. The coyotes east of the Ms. tend to be larger because of the land, cover, prey, and enviroment.
The coyotes west of the Ms. are mostly desendents of the desert coyote which is a smaller animal. This is because of the lack of cover and less prey. They are the same animal.


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## steff bugielski (Nov 10, 2003)

I am in southern Ny , Ny, NJ,PA border. Yep coyotes and coydogs here. Bear too.
Steff


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## tooltime (Nov 16, 2003)

Here is a link to an article on the DNA evidence supporting hybridization of the Eastern coyote:

DNA Evidence on Eastern Coyote Hybridization


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## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

cowgirlone said:


> woodspirit is right! I've heard that the coyotes in that area have bred with dogs and are pretty large.
> I think kincorafarms was talking about them being huge in her area.
> 
> I'm glad we have the smaller ones here!


Yup, they are numerous and large in NYS. We haven't had a problem with them lately, but a few years ago there was a large pack killing a neighbors calves.

PA (our farm is 6 miles from the PA border) has a annual coyote hunt, I believe it's going on now or will be soon.

Stacy


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## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

tooltime said:


> Here is a link to an article on the DNA evidence supporting hybridization of the Eastern coyote:
> 
> DNA Evidence on Eastern Coyote Hybridization


It's probably been 4 years or so now, but I saw a large (at least 70 lbs) "coyote" that had the coloring (dark) of a wolf in a hedge row at the bottom of our hayfield. There was another two normal size, normal color coyotes hunting mice in the field. Well, I knew my DH wouldn't believe me about it's size or coloring so I asked a neighbor to look-- he concurred with the weight estimate and coloring. It was too far away to get a decent picture, we were using binoculars to see it. After that, I started doing some information gathering and wolf DNA in the eastern coyote is much more common than people believe.

Stacy


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## IMP (Feb 7, 2006)

I lived in Claverack NY, and at night you could hear them all yipping and yapping. Actually, they sometimes sound like babies crying. They are also in NYC, I saw one at VanCourtland Park early one morning. Seems that they are everywhere now.


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## cowgirlone (May 9, 2002)

KincoraFarm said:


> Yup, they are numerous and large in NYS. We haven't had a problem with them lately, but a few years ago there was a large pack killing a neighbors calves.
> 
> PA (our farm is 6 miles from the PA border) has a annual coyote hunt, I believe it's going on now or will be soon.
> 
> Stacy



You caught me talking about you Stacy!  LOL! 
I remember you mentioning in the past how large they are in your area.




> The coyotes west of the Ms. are mostly desendents of the desert coyote which is a smaller animal. This is because of the lack of cover and less prey


Pancho, I think you are right, anyway in my area, there isn't much cover for them.


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## Charleen (May 12, 2002)

We're in western NY halfway between Buffalo and Rochester (Spencerport is kind of a suburb of Rochester). YES, there are coyotes here! 38 were taken off state land in our town alone last hunting season. We've lost a cat to a coyote and we've seen tracks just 20 feet from the house, we hear them howling all the time. Apparently, they were released on the state land to help take care of the deer overpopulation.

It's somewhat annoying when our area of NY is referred to as "Upstate". They're trying to distinquish the fact that it is not NY City, (which we refer to as Downstate). Yet, when I think of Upstate, I think of really far northern NY, like Plattsburgh or even Watertown area. To me, Syracuse is Central. Then to add to the mix - there's the Finger Lakes area. I guess it's all relative.


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## pancho (Oct 23, 2006)

The Council on Enviromental Quality puts out a great book called Wildlife and America. It is cosponsored by the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service, the Forest Service, and the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration.
In their book they follow the coyote from when it was only located in the west, through all of the attempts by the people and the gov. to destroy them, and through their spread over almost all of the U.S. It also explains the difference in size of the eastern coyote and the western coyote.


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## Patty0315 (Feb 1, 2004)

Yep we have them way up in NORTHERN NY . I live by Watertown .










This is the first one Mark & I trapped together. He has trapped all over the country. He said the biggest around here is about 70 lbs.

Patty


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## Guest (Feb 12, 2007)

Do you think they are actually bigger or just have more hair? Cause out this way all animals appear to look smaller then back east or north cause our winters are somewhat milder. Our fur prices are only about half of what the northern and eastern states get. I can tell by looking at patties picture that the wild dog has a lot more hair then what ours have, yet it doesn't really appear to be any longer.


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## vicker (Jul 11, 2003)

I don't mind sharing my space with a few coyotes. As long as we don't ever get fire ants, I'm happy.


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## Patty0315 (Feb 1, 2004)

Yes they have alot of fur. That was not a big coyote. Mark starts 6"4 and goes about 250lbs if that helps give you an idea. Average dogs last year went for about 25.00


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## bgak47 (Sep 4, 2003)

Patty0315 said:


> Yes they have alot of fur. That was not a big coyote. Mark starts 6"4 and goes about 250lbs if that helps give you an idea. Average dogs last year went for about 25.00


 $25.00? For the fur? Who want's coyote pelts? A Coyote fur coat? We kill em & hang the carcass on the fence as a warning to the rest of them to stay away.


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## RLMS (Mar 10, 2003)

We have them in the area south of Cooperstown, NY.

Want to run your dogs and get a few--come on!

Our Great Pyr and Great Dane drug a still-warm male in last fall. The Pyr was beat up a bit but the Great Dane didn't have a mark.

We haven't lost anything to a coyote here.

The hawks are a great big pain though!


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## jross (Sep 3, 2006)

Bears and coyotes have been reported in all New Jersey's 21 counties. The fellow who hunts our place saw a coyote trying to catch a turkey from his treestand. My neighbor's brother saw a single coyote next door while bowhunting.


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## Patty0315 (Feb 1, 2004)

Your loosing alot of money if you just shoot and kill. Any fur buyer will buy coyotes . That is of course if you can shoot and don't fill um full of holes !  Look around it will at least pay for gas and bullet ! maybe even the beer for after the hunt.


Patty


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## TedH71 (Jan 19, 2003)

There are some people who do nothing but trap and hunt animals year round for their hides. Espcially in Canada because during the winter, their fur is extra thick. You CAN make a living from it but it's alot of hard work.


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## fishhead (Jul 19, 2006)

Coyote fur is used to trim the hoods of parkas. I used to trap them in Mn, CO and NM.

I read an interesting book called The Cunning Coyote. They are an amazing animal. The author said that in order to control the population it took an annual reduction of at least 50%. If you missed a year the population would rebound because they would just have more pups. When the population reaches carrying capacity the number of pups drops.


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## CoachVince (Sep 29, 2005)

jross said:


> Bears and coyotes have been reported in all New Jersey's 21 counties.


When people say there's no reason for carry permits in NJ, I mention that. Takes away from the whole "could you shoot a criminal" side of the argument, kinda takes the wind out of their sails. I'd feel a lot better if I knew I wouldn't get hassled for carrying a 12ga pump in the truck.


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## beaglady (Oct 7, 2002)

KincoraFarm said:


> PA (our farm is 6 miles from the PA border) has a annual coyote hunt, I believe it's going on now or will be soon.


It's this weekend. Some of the guys I work with are going.


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## tinknal (May 21, 2004)

Don't worry about the coyotes, when the timber wolf expands into your area they will be run off...............


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## fishhead (Jul 19, 2006)

That's right! The big wuffs have driven out all of our coyotes. Now it's fox and wolves whereas before it was coyotes and few fox.


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## bgak47 (Sep 4, 2003)

I think the eastern coyotes are bigger because they have more little lap dogs & cats to eat. California coyotes are bigger for the same reason.


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## adks99 (Nov 20, 2005)

To Patty, yeah we have relatives in Brooklyn NY, and to them "upstate" is basically Westchester. The Adirondacks and Western Ny might as well be Canada! 

Re: the Coyotes, I read a couple years ago that the ones which inhabit "upstate" NY, specifically the Adirondacks where we have a hunting camp, are genetically linked to the red wolf, some sort of breeding took place at one time or another, so they are much larger than the ones out west. I've been in deer yards in the winter when a pack comes in to hunt, and they sound, look, and act like wolves. It's not pretty what they do to deer in deep snow. However, they are pretty much everywhere in the Northeast, I've seen them outside my home in Suburban Connecticut, and they're not small here either.


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## bluetick (May 11, 2002)

Just want to add my limited experience. I live north of Albany. A couple of years ago I lost three ducks and a dewlap toulouse gander to a pair of coyotes that hung around for a couple of months trying to steal more of my birds. I was impressed by the size of the coyotes, and the ability of one of them to haul off the big gander.

They were not at all afraid of me. One afternoon, as I sat on a bench near the fenced yard where I moved the birds, they all ran into the barn. I stood up and looked behind me to see one of the coyotes about 15 feet away. It was unnerving!

One morning my two German shepherds started barking like crazy in their fenced yard. A coyote was standing about 30 feet away looking at them as if they were chumps. He didn't leave until a bullet whizzed past him - I'm a lousy shot! 

These animals were big. I remember thinking when I saw the first one that it looked like a wolf, but told myself that they must be coyotes because we don't have wolves in NY. Since then, I've read a couple of articles that said we do. So, I don't know what these animals were, but I am glad they moved on, and that I put up a 5' high fence to prevent more losses! I do hear coyotes singing now and then.


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## mwhit (Jun 8, 2006)

adks99 said:


> To Patty, yeah we have relatives in Brooklyn NY, and to them "upstate" is basically Westchester. The Adirondacks and Western Ny might as well be Canada!
> 
> Re: the Coyotes, I read a couple years ago that the ones which inhabit "upstate" NY, specifically the Adirondacks where we have a hunting camp, are genetically linked to the red wolf, some sort of breeding took place at one time or another, so they are much larger than the ones out west. I've been in deer yards in the winter when a pack comes in to hunt, and they sound, look, and act like wolves. It's not pretty what they do to deer in deep snow. However, they are pretty much everywhere in the Northeast, I've seen them outside my home in Suburban Connecticut, and they're not small here either.


Hey-- you're trying to make me Canadian?? LOL I live in the Adirondack foothills (a few miles out of the park) and I can assure you coyotes are here and larger than in alot of areas. 60-70 pound coyotes are the norm, not an exception. We also have timber wolves-- they were released by the DEC about 5 years ago (maybe longer-- I'd have to look it up) I saw one a while ago and it was beautiful. I've been hearing alot of what I think are wolves-- not coyotes for the past year or so, but so far they haven't came close enough to see what they are. Thank goodness for big dogs that are twice the size of a coyote  As for someone thinking that they are 'new' here-- they've been around my whole life and I'm 35...


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## Turkeyfether (Dec 10, 2004)

COYOTE FUR : getting back to the question of,"who would want that fur anyway?"~ Coyote fur pelts are quite beautiful after they're tanned.Bow hunters cover their quivers with them, head to tail. I think it looks quite nice.The fur from the head flops over the top like a lid ,the body fur covers the quiver & the tail gives you a nice swagger as you walk :dance: in the BOW HUNTER'S FESTIVAL in Sullivan County (Forksville). I think those pelts, tanned, sell for $100.00 at the Festival.


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## bgak47 (Sep 4, 2003)

Turkeyfether said:


> COYOTE FUR : getting back to the question of,"who would want that fur anyway?"~ Coyote fur pelts are quite beautiful after they're tanned.Bow hunters cover their quivers with them, head to tail. I think it looks quite nice.The fur from the head flops over the top like a lid ,the body fur covers the quiver & the tail gives you a nice swagger as you walk :dance: in the BOW HUNTER'S FESTIVAL in Sullivan County (Forksville). I think those pelts, tanned, sell for $100.00 at the Festival.


 I guess i'm missing out Turkeyfether. We have so many of them around here that we just want them to go away... so we hang the carcass on a fence. It seems to work as a warning.


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