# H T Meat: Brisket Is So Yesterday's news



## Tom Horn (Feb 10, 2021)

It appears that everyone is gonzo about smoked brisket. Me, not so much. I prefer the chuck eye roll for obvious reasons.

On the chart below you will see the chuck eye in the top left of the chart and the brisket just to the rear of the foreleg. Brisket is sold either packer trim or trimmed, with trimmed being much more expensive and packer trim being extremely fat externally, whereas a chuck eye roll is devoid of any surface fat, (see photos below.)











Brisket Packer Trim










Chuck Eye Roll









A whole brisket will weigh in the neighborhood of 15 pounds plus where a whole chuck eye will be about twenty, (if twenty pounds is too much buy a half.)

A chuck eye will yield nearly 100% usable meat less cooking shrinkage while a packer trim brisket will be around 50% yield after it is cooked and trimmed. Something to consider when comparing raw weight prices.

The point of a brisket is very fatty intramuscularly while the flat is very lean and often ends up being dry once cooked.

Although not as tender, the chuck eye is of the same muscle group as the ribeye steak lending it good flavor. It is uniform end to end so the cooked meat is consistent throughout. The chuck eye has fat deposits throughout which contribute to the end product being moist.

I smoke the chuck eye and bring the internal temperature to 125 degrees fahrenheit using a probe thermometer. upon removal the temperature will continue to rise to approximately 135, right at the high end of rare.

Let it rest and slice as thin as you can with a knife or preferably on a meat slicer. Thin is the key as slicing thin will promote a tender end result while thick cut might be a bit chewy.

Once you have a chuck eye sandwich prepared that way you will throw rocks at brisket.

Chuck eye is also naturally about 80% lean so it makes great ground chuck for burgers and chuck roast, for pot roast, green chili stew, tacos, chimichangas, etc.


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## Rodeo's Bud (Apr 10, 2020)

Yes, but brisket is the hip cut right now.


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## Tom Horn (Feb 10, 2021)

Rodeo's Bud said:


> Yes, but brisket is the hip cut right now.


Actually the brisket comes off the chest, not the hip. Nyuck, nyuck, nyuck

I buck trends, I have been a meat cutter and a cattleman.

I for one know that "Certified Angus Beef" is hogwash. There are not enough Angus cattle on the face of the earth for that claim to be true.

Also ground sirloin in the meat case is not ground sirloin steak, it is beef knuckle. A much cheaper cut that comes off of the front of the round (hind leg) near the knee. It has three muscles, constituting a lot of connective tissue and if broken down a cut called petite sirloin is produced and sold as a steak.

I guess if you don't know, or don't want to know, you can be sold anything thinking that it is something else.

I'm offering a choice.


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## NRA_guy (Jun 9, 2015)

Thanks for the info.

In our small town, I am lucky to find a half of a brisket in the meat department.

The butchers here would not know what a "chuck eye roll" is.

PS: I still remember the days in the late 1960s when I could buy "USDA Prime beef" in local, small grocery stores. You had a choice of buying "USDA Choice" or "USDA Prime". Prime was better, but cost more. 

Then, as I recall, USDA changed the grading system and they stopped selling prime beef in local grocery stores. They said that all prime cuts go to fancy, big city restaurants. I don't know if that's true. I have never been in a fancy, big city restaurant.

But after that is when stores started selling "Certified Angus Beef". Certified angus is not USDA graded as I understand. The angus folks have their own grading system. I don't especially care for angus beef. It tastes "strong" to me.

I found this:

What is Certified Angus Beef?
-------------------------------------
_Certified Angus Beef (CAB) is both a nonprofit LLC owned by the American Angus Association and a certification granted by the USDA, which inspects beef in order to ensure that it meets ten “carcass specifications”. If the inspected beef meets those specs, and if it comes from an Angus cow, it qualifies as being “Certified Angus Beef.” Beef that meets CAB requirements must be either USDA Prime or one of the top 2 levels of USDA Choice.

What’s funny about the Certified Angus Beef designation, though, is that the meat doesn’t come from cows proven to be Angus via lineage or genetic testing; the cows essentially just need to be black in color and have physical characteristics associated with the Angus breed._ 
-------------------------------------


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## Tom Horn (Feb 10, 2021)

NRA_guy said:


> Thanks for the info.
> 
> In our small town, I am lucky to find a half of a brisket in the meat department.
> 
> ...


You are most welcome.

Here is all it takes for cattle to qualify as "Certified Angus."



> To earn the _Certified Angus Beef_ ® brand name, cattle must first be Angus-influenced, with a predominantly solid black coat. Then, beef must pass our 10 quality standards:
> 
> *MARBLING AND MATURITY*
> 1. Modest or higher marbling – for the taste that ensures consumer satisfaction
> ...


All meat sold to the public must be USDA inspected.



> The Federal Meat Inspection Act (FMIA) requires that all meat sold commercially be inspected and passed to ensure that it is safe, wholesome, and properly labeled. The USDA Food Safety and Inspection Service (FSIS) is responsible for providing this inspection. The FMIA requires inspection for any product intended for human consumption, wholly or in part, from the carcass or parts of any cattle, sheep, swine, and goat. These animals, defined as “livestock” in the regulations, must be slaughtered and processed under Federal inspection, and the meat food products must be inspected and passed for human consumption.





> https://www.fsis.usda.gov/sites/default/files/media_file/2021-02/Fed-Food-Inspect-Requirements.pdf#:~:text=The Federal Meat Inspection Act (FMIA) requires that,must be inspected and passed for human consumption.


Each facility that processes meat for public consumption has an establishment number (EST) that appears on the packaging of the meat. It's purpose is that should foodborne illness occur the meat in question can be tracked to it's source.










When I was a boy the beef grades were USDA Good, Choice and Prime. Since then USDA Good has become USDA Select.

As for USDA Prime, Sam's Club sells it, in addition to USDA Choice.


*Member's Mark USDA Prime Angus Beef Ribeye Steak (priced per pound)*

*Due to high demand,*
This item may be unavailable from time to time.
*CURRENT PRICE: $16.98/LB$*

Member's Mark USDA Prime Angus Beef Ribeye Steak (priced per pound) - Sam's Club











There is a what I call a scratch and dent market here locally that also sells meat. They often have a "red line sale" where they sell it for half of their normal price. I recently purchased four whole Ribeye primals averaging 16 plus pounds each. Every one of them was USDA Prime, I now have 60 Prime ribeye steaks averaging a pound each individually vacuum sealed in my freezer.

And I paid $4.50 per pound for the primals.

I would be willing to bet that if your local market sells chuck roast that they could come up with chuck eye roll.


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## Terri (May 10, 2002)

I, for one, prefer the leaner beef as it is never greasy. Sirloin and a trimmed brisket are far tastier to me than any cut that has the word "chuck" in it.

To keep it tender and juicy I like to cook beef at a lower temperature, and I make sure that the meat is still pink in the middle.when I take it off of the heat. I will cook a thick roast at 300 degrees but the thinner cuts of meat do fine at 325. And, to make it attractive I often give the outside of the meat a quick sear with high heat, especially if it has been cooked at a lower temperature. Beef is more attractive if the outside of the meat has been seared, and it brings out the flavor as well


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## Tom Horn (Feb 10, 2021)

Terri said:


> I, for one, prefer the leaner beef as it is never greasy. Sirloin and a trimmed brisket are far tastier to me than any cut that has the word "chuck" in it.
> 
> To keep it tender and juicy I like to cook beef at a lower temperature, and I make sure that the meat is still pink in the middle.when I take it off of the heat. I will cook a thick roast at 300 degrees but the thinner cuts of meat do fine at 325. And, to make it attractive I often give the outside of the meat a quick sear with high heat, especially if it has been cooked at a lower temperature. Beef is more attractive if the outside of the meat has been seared, and it brings out the flavor as well



Very true.

I also like to smoke whole top sirloins to 125 internal. Keeping them rare in the middle helps tenderness and keeps the meat moist. The smoke is a nice flavor enhancer and the meat can be sliced and dressed with different sauces and/or gravies to give everyone in a large group the individual flavor combination that they like.

Before serving if you prefer lean, remove the Coulotte from the sirloin, leaving the center cut which has no fat cover. The Brazilians call the Coulotte, Picanha and serve it on a skewer.











Picanha


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## Terri (May 10, 2002)

I will have to try that skewer some time. I do like fat if it is crispy, but it is hard to get the fat crispy without over cooking the center of the meat! And I will always prefer a juicy steak over fat even when the fat is crispy:: that is just what my taste buds tell me. But it may be possibly to have both


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## NRA_guy (Jun 9, 2015)

I happened to go by one of our smaller grocery stores this morning to pick up a few things and swung by the meat department.

Lo and behold, right there was same chuck eye rolls. I will go back when I get ready to do some barbecue.

Thanks again. And thanks for the explanation.

(Some call me crazy, but I eat all meat well done. No pink, A few years ago restaurant menus had a warning that they were not liable if the customer got sick if they ordered meat on the rare side. That warning seems to have gone away.)


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## Tom Horn (Feb 10, 2021)

NRA_guy said:


> I happened to go by one of our smaller grocery stores this morning to pick up a few things and swung by the meat department.
> 
> Lo and behold, right there was same chuck eye rolls. I will go back when I get ready to do some barbecue.
> 
> ...


I have found that well done meat is not generally very moist and tends towards being a bit chewy. Not my cup of tea but to each his/her own.

I'm not quite a run a flashlight over it and serve it kinda guy, but I do prefer beef on the rare side.






You will not get a foodborne illness from a blood rare steak as long as the outside (contact surface) is seared.

The sear kills the bacteria that is on the surface. The meat under the surface is sterile, so no bacteria are present.

The meat to be cautious about is ground meat as all of the ground meat has been exposed to the environment thereby making the whole of it capable of being contaminated with foodborne illness causing bacteria.

This is one of the most infamous examples of illness caused by undercooked ground beef.



> The 1993 Jack in the Box _E. _coli outbreak occurred when the Escherichia coli O157:H7 bacterium (originating from contaminated beef patties) killed four children and infected 732 people across four states. The outbreak involved 73 Jack in the Box restaurants in California, Idaho, Washington and Nevada, and has been described as "far and away the most infamous food poison outbreak in contemporary history." The majority of the victims were under 10 years old. Four children died and 178 other victims were left with permanent injury including kidney and brain damage.
> 
> 1993 Jack in the Box E. coli outbreak - Wikipedia


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## NRA_guy (Jun 9, 2015)

Oh, I remember that Jack in the Box problem. Thanks.


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## 101pigs (Sep 18, 2018)

NRA_guy said:


> I happened to go by one of our smaller grocery stores this morning to pick up a few things and swung by the meat department.
> 
> Lo and behold, right there was same chuck eye rolls. I will go back when I get ready to do some barbecue.
> 
> ...


I learned to cook Beef, Pork, Sheep, etc. all well done. No bugs that way  Since a kid on the farm Sirloin, Brisket was the favorite when we butchered. Same today for me as i butcher my own meat for myself. Brisket braised and cooked at low temp in milk is one of my favorite dish. I cook all meats in different ways. I prefer white face Hereford meat. Brisket Pork is also one of my favorite meats. A lot of folks don't cook older sheep anymore in the U.S. however there are a few of us that do cook older Sheep. Good meat if one knows how to cook it. Other parts of the world cook older Sheep.


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## mnn2501 (Apr 2, 2008)

Fat = Flavor


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## Tom Horn (Feb 10, 2021)

mnn2501 said:


> Fat = Flavor


No argument that fat adds flavor.

My position is that there is no need for your meat be comprised of an excessive amount of fat, as no on sits down to a meal of tallow.

Also paying steak price for tallow is not economically sound.


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## NRA_guy (Jun 9, 2015)

mnn2501 said:


> Fat = Flavor


Are we still talking about meat here, not wimmen? 😜


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## Tom Horn (Feb 10, 2021)

NRA_guy said:


> Are we still talking about meat here, not wimmen? 😜


Well.... Since you asked.


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## stars at night (Mar 12, 2021)

Tom Horn said:


> I have found that well done meat is not generally very moist and tends towards being a bit chewy. Not my cup of tea but to each his/her own.
> 
> I'm not quite a run a flashlight over it and serve it kinda guy, but I do prefer beef on the rare side.
> 
> ...


Ahhhh, you found one of my favorite shows and a very funny scene!!


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## Pony (Jan 6, 2003)

We just last week got the steer back from the butcher. I love the brisket, and I am planning some marvelous things... 

Also have big plans for the flank steak. Mmmm.....


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## Tom Horn (Feb 10, 2021)

stars at night said:


> Ahhhh, you found one of my favorite shows and a very funny scene!!


When a preference for well done meat was mentioned I couldn't help but recall it.

Have you ever seen Rustler's Rhapsody with Tom Berenger? It's one of my favorites.


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## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

This thread is definitely cooking, maybe even steaming.


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## mreynolds (Jan 1, 2015)

Everything you cook has to be cooked a certain way. Brisket (albeit semi- multi-cultural) is a Texas delicacy. Not all Texans can cook one correctly though. 

It's true Texans, admit it now. 

The problem I see is I have seen people that cook an awesome brisket. No better any where. Then they cook a steak on a smoker for 2 hours. 

_*Can you say ribeye jerky*_?

Some things you grill and some you smoke. 

I took formal training on the grill.

Seriously

If you are going to do something, you should do it right or dont do it at all.


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## Tom Horn (Feb 10, 2021)

mreynolds said:


> Everything you cook has to be cooked a certain way. Brisket (albeit semi- multi-cultural) is a Texas delicacy. Not all Texans can cook one correctly though.
> 
> It's true Texans, admit it now.
> 
> ...


That is curious how they could be so good at one cut and an utter failure at another. It sounds to me like their technique was inherited from somewhere and they have not one creative bone in their bodies.

Maybe grandpa wasn't on speed dial for ribeye. What a sad end to a good cut of meat. 

If you want to smoke ribeye it should be as a roast weighing at least five pounds, if not the entire primal. Cooked to 125 internal temp.

And I agree, if you can't run with the big dogs, you'd best stay on the porch.


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## mreynolds (Jan 1, 2015)

Tom Horn said:


> That is curious how they could be so good at one cut and an utter failure at another. It sounds to me like their technique was inherited from somewhere and they have not one creative bone in their bodies.
> 
> Maybe grandpa wasn't on speed dial for ribeye. What a sad end to a good cut of meat.
> 
> ...



It's sad really when you have been taught to smoke everything (me included). I guess it stems from the old days when we were preserving food and smoke houses were a dime a dozen. I am sure you could keep a ribeye for weeks when you smoke one. 

Salt cure for preserve and pepper cure for rancid meat. Or, cook ahead and store in grease for the winter (like sausage)

I took classes from a master griller because I like food to taste good. You dont have to smoke everything under the sun though. I have smoked chicken and it was good. Quarters, whole and assorted. Chicken breasts not so much. Smoke is no good for that. High heat and quick turn around.


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## oregon woodsmok (Dec 19, 2010)

mreynolds said:


> .......... Then they cook a steak on a smoker for 2 hours........


Ribeye on the smoker works great. You just need a good thermometer so you can get it out of the smoker while it is still medium rare. Then throw it onto a blistering hot grill and quickly char the outside.

Prime rib roast on the smoker works really well, too.

(and the family grill master also turns out an excellent brisket)


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## oregon woodsmok (Dec 19, 2010)

Probably veering a bit off topic, but the big problem with a brisket is that it needs to go onto the smoker about 3 in the morning and still doesn't seem to get done until dinner is quite late.

The family motto is "we are barbecuing, so dinner will be late". I don't even start to mix up the corn bread until the meat is out of the smoker and resting in the insulated cooler because there is no guessing when it will be done.

I'll try chuck eye roll if I can find one. Meat still isn't back in the market in full supply and the place where I buy primal cuts only carries chuck in select grade, which I prefer to not buy.


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## GTX63 (Dec 13, 2016)

Tom Horn said:


> No argument that fat adds flavor.
> 
> My position is that there is no need for your meat be comprised of an excessive amount of fat, as no on sits down to a meal of tallow.
> 
> Also paying steak price for tallow is not economically sound.


There was a time when the fat on a steak was the prime portion and the meat was secondary.
Yes, fat is flavor, and sucking on the fat after a good ribeye is relishing the memory.


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## Tom Horn (Feb 10, 2021)

GTX63 said:


> There was a time when the fat on a steak was the prime portion and the meat was secondary.
> Yes, fat is flavor, and sucking on the fat after a good ribeye is relishing the memory.


Yes, it's one of those naughty pleasures.

Especially if it is crispy.


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