# Seeking feedback on my crazy idea....



## unregistered353870

I'm planning on "retiring" for the third time this spring. I am selling my ranch and moving somewhere...but where, I haven't decided yet.

Here's where it gets crazy...I'm considering Detroit. Quite a big change to go from living alone on 2000 acres surrounded by many many thousands more with no people.

I grew up in Detroit in the 40s before moving to the country. I've been back for visits and it has a certain appeal to me. Something about returning home for my final years. Lots of family in the area, good food, fairly low cost of living.

Obviously there are lots of good reasons not to move there, but I still kind of want to. I won't stay for the winters, so that's one reason I can cross off the list. I'm a pretty good shot with a pistol so crime doesn't worry me too much.

Have I lost my mind? Anyone familiar with the city as it is today have any advice? Feel free to tell me I'm an idiot for even considering this, as long as you have good reasons.


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## where I want to

Not at all. Detroit, because of the early wealth, has some of the most beautiful housing, a cleaned up river, lots of public institutions like Cranbrook or the Detroit Museum of Art. Going to have lots of open land once the derelict housing is gone.
But it is also bankrupt, causing lack of maintenance of infrastructure. Lots of violence and crime. Even more racial tension. If you move there, you can expect to be paying some of those bills even though you never created the debt. 
I feel the same about where I live, it's home, except most of my family has abandoned it. But my family goes way back, I have a history here. I am most at home here and actually feel sorry for those elsewhere. 
But I also know that you can't go home in any sense of the idea. The places have changed and I have changed. And I'm still in the general vicinity. I'd do a trial long term visit before I'd commit.


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## Scott SW Ohio

I like your idea. Many years ago I left the area where I grew up (Jackson, Michigan) for better job prospects, and I enjoy where I live now - yet when I go back north it still feels like home. I don't think you ever lose that early imprinting.

In Jackson (as in Detroit) I could buy a liveable house in a blue-collar part of the city for the cost of a used car. That would free up capital for retirement income generation. Jackson is like Detroit in that a lot of the homes, parks and public buildings date to the first third of the 20th Century when the region was riding the manufacturing boom and flush with resources and so were built to a high standard. 

Cincinnati's underlying cultural influence overwhelmingly is German. A lot of the influences I remember from my Michigan childhood (Polish, Armenian, Scotch) are missing here. Southern Ohio has never heard of a golombki, apparently, and what they call coney dogs are a weird parody of the real thing. No Tigers fans here either - mention Hal Newhouser or Gates Brown or Ernie Harwell and you get blank stares; Al Kaline barely registers.

The last time I was in Detroit I checked out the beautiful and incredibly cheap houses in Boston Edison, strolled through the conservatory on Belle Isle, visited Pewabic Pottery, had a conversation with a random stranger about Mickey Stanley and the 1968 World Series, drank Faygo Red Pop. tuned in WJR and thought "I could live here."


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## mzgarden

I'm a firm believer that all ideas should be put on the table and examined. That being said, since you are selling and moving -- maybe you don't have to 'buy' right away? Maybe you could find an acceptable area in which to rent/lease and see? My concerns going forward would be about the costs to repair the city, which may be assessed as real estate taxes. Renting for a while may give you more specific experience from which to make a more permanent decision.


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## pattycake

This may be your last move so I would encourage you to go where have lots of family!


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## Micheal

jtbrandt said:


> Have I lost my mind? Feel free to tell me I'm an idiot for even considering this, as long as you have good reasons.


So K I feel free and you're an idiot for considering it. Reason why? Cause you think you may be and only need confirmation. :whistlin:

In all seriousness, I'd figure more in dealing with the reasons of what you want to do in retirement and then consider if'n you can or even want to do those things in Detroit. 

Yes, I agree family is important but just because family is there doesn't mean that family will stay there, or not die off, or not like you because..... and end up leaving you one way or another. gre:

As for you being a "good shot" and crime doesn't really bother you - ahhh, ever kill anyone???? I myself, I don't know if it really came to it I'd be able to pull the trigger or live with the fact that I was responsible for shooting someone because.......
In turn, if'n you can (pull the trigger); better check out Detroit's self-defense laws. :facepalm:

Again I'd think more about what I want to do and then consider where. You may find Detroit just don't cut it......


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## unregistered353870

> As for you being a "good shot" and crime doesn't really bother you - ahhh, ever kill anyone???? I myself, I don't know if it really came to it I'd be able to pull the trigger or live with the fact that I was responsible for shooting someone because.......
> In turn, if'n you can (pull the trigger); better check out Detroit's self-defense laws.


That was tongue in cheek...I am a good shot, but I don't expect to need to shoot anyone. There is a lot of violence in Detroit, but very little of it is random. If it comes down to that, I'm ready to check out. The self-defense laws are some of the best in the country, though...castle doctrine, stand your ground, open carry with no permit, etc. I might not even bother to carry, though. That's how confident I am in my judo skills...that's also tongue in cheek....

Thank you all for your input. You've given me some good things to think about.

Scott, you made me think of all my fond memories of all the Polish food and culture...I grew up just the other side of Hamtramck from Boston Edison, just south of the airport. I love wandering around looking at all those old houses, too. Boston Edison has some of the best. Indian Village is nice, too...but not as cheap. I have family on my wife's side in the Jackson area, too...beautiful farmland all around the city. And I was born to a German father in Cincinnati but moved to Detroit shortly after. How could people not know Ernie Harwell? Takes me back to the old Tiger Stadium...it was Briggs Stadium back then and the Lions played there too. I went back for the last Tigers game there about 15 years ago.

Mzgarden, that is great advice. I will definitely rent. I don't plan to buy at all unless I find something I really love that I can't rent. I'm hoping to make it easier for my kids to deal with my estate after I'm gone. I'm thinking high-rise, just because it's something I've never lived in. There are some great views.

WIWT, yes, all that open land is one of the things that is appealing to me...might try my hand at some urban homesteading. The soil in the city is fantastic (at least where it isn't contaminated). And the river is another thing...I miss water here in MT...never thought I'd say that after getting out of the Navy....

Thanks again, everyone...you folks are great!


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## DEKE01

JTB - since you are a two time failure at retiring...:goodjob: what makes you so sure it will stick this time? I've tried big city life, hi rise life, and I wasn't a fan. Lots of limitations, especially to a guy who is used to peeing on trees when ever he feels like it.


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## unregistered353870

Well, I can't say I'm confident I won't fail again this time...I really enjoy working and I don't see the appeal in going to the casinos, so I'll probably figure out something new to do. I have a few things on the back burner now that might come to the front...but those are portable, so I can do them anywhere.

Yeah, the peeing on trees thing could be a problem...I hear they arrest people for that in the city! Give them free fertilizer, and you get hassled by the cops! Fortunately, I have a nephew with a farm about an hour drive from downtown, so I can probably go there to pee on trees occasionally.

The high rise life might not be for me. Maybe I can find a place where I can try it out for a month before signing a longer term lease.


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## TheMartianChick

I believe that we all move through various phases of our lives and that we become more rounded, as a result. While Detroit is a larger city than I would be comfortable living in, the entrepreneur in me sees a lot of possibility for acquiring inexpensive residential properties, holding them or renting them out and then waiting for the tide to turn to convert them into commercial developments. I've heard a lot of stories about the large tracts/blocks that are available.

I've participated in a lot of housing conferences for nonprofit organizations and have learned a lot. If you should decide to buy something, you might want to check in with the local housing agencies. They often select an area in which to invest all of their efforts to ensure the biggest bang for their buck and can provide you with ideas about any special program, tax exemptions, etc... that exist.

Best of luck to you in this new chapter!


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## Jlynnp

My son lives in Detroit, why I do not know. He owns a couple houses in Ferndale and is rehabbing a house he just bought in Boston Edison area of Detroit, at least I think that is what it is called. He seems to like it.


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## Declan

I'd look closely at the tax issue in Detroit if you are planning on buying. From what I have read, they pad the real estate taxes with something called millage.


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## TRellis

Sorry JT, but put my name in the "You are crazy" column. LOL

Though, if you do decide to go back to Detroit on a trial basis, I will be more than happy to take care of the lonely, 2000 acre ranch until you get back. I am not saying you will get it back. We may have to fight about that one. LOL.

TRellis


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## unregistered353870

I'm selling the ranch either way...got two offers out of the blue (not on the market) last year for more than I think it's worth and at least one is still interested.

Pretty sure my new three season home will be Michigan...just not sure on the Detroit part. A few of my horses will go with me...I wonder if they're allowed in the city...the cops have some.


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## TheMartianChick

Horses usually aren't allowed in most urban areas, but there may be some stables that are grandfathered in for one reason or another. I was surprised to see an equestrian team visiting the local parks in Philly last summer. For many of the inner-city kids, it was the first time that they'd ever seen a horse up close!


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## pancho

I picked a state to live in where I was sure I didn't have any relatives in the state.


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## unregistered353870

Probably my horses will live outside the city somewhere, but I am going to look into whether I can ride them in the city...that sounds fun even if I decide not to live there.

I like my relatives quite a bit...they've been good to me. They may get tired of me once I live close.


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## ceresone

A a person that lives in the (semi) quiet country, i would vote in--if I have a vote--is that you're losing your mind--


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## unregistered353870

A little update...still not sure I'm going to give city living a try, but I'm finding it might be tough to rent short term in Detroit. They are converting buildings to apartments like crazy, but they're filling up faster than they can renovate, so it's a landlord's market. I thought it would be easier to find flexible leasing.

So back to the drawing board. I have another crazy idea...buying a parking structure and living on the top level in an Airstream camper or small cabin...there's no way it's legal, but maybe I can get away with it for a while. And the lower levels could provide income. Parking is insanely expensive in Detroit...not like New York or Chicago, but still very high for a place with so much vacant land.

Just ideas...haven't even looked into whether I can afford to buy a parking structure.


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## TRellis

jtbrandt said:


> A little update...still not sure I'm going to give city living a try, but I'm finding it might be tough to rent short term in Detroit. They are converting buildings to apartments like crazy, but they're filling up faster than they can renovate, so it's a landlord's market. I thought it would be easier to find flexible leasing.
> 
> So back to the drawing board. I have another crazy idea...buying a parking structure and living on the top level in an Airstream camper or small cabin...there's no way it's legal, but maybe I can get away with it for a while. And the lower levels could provide income. Parking is insanely expensive in Detroit...not like New York or Chicago, but still very high for a place with so much vacant land.
> 
> Just ideas...haven't even looked into whether I can afford to buy a parking structure.


No short term rent available, a landlord's market, parking is insanely expensive....

Sign me up!!! I want to move there too!!! LOL!!!

Just kidding, but I still think you are crazy!!!

TRellis


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## unregistered353870

I'm starting to think maybe it's a gold mine...already getting cured of that retirement bug....


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## motdaugrnds

JTB since you have already stated two failures at retiring, have you actually stayed quiet/still long enough to figure out why you failed at it? Seems that would be a top priority unless you actually don't mind moving around a lot...some people just cannot stay in one area!

You stated you enjoy working and I'm wondering if you could make retirement a job! Yes, I'm serious! From what I'm reading in your posts, you are not inhibited by being on the lower end of finances; so why not use some of that to fund some sort of retirement job. (I know what I'd do were I in your shoes; however, most would think I was crazy for doing so. Thus, I won't even mention it here.) You could, however, choose something you enjoy doing that maybe you have never done and go from there. Then, in your search for a place to "settle", you can, also, search for how your new retirement incentives might fit....


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## unregistered353870

Well, now I'm really curious about what you would do...I promise I won't think you're crazy if you tell us. As you can tell, I'm a little crazy myself.

I don't think I will ever really retire. I am ready for something less strenuous than ranching, though. It was supposed to be a retirement hobby, but I enjoyed it so much I kept expanding and eventually even stopped losing money at it.

Part of the wanting to move is loneliness, though...part of why I spend so much time on Homesteading Today...so many good people here. I have been out in the middle of nowhere for 30+ years and I have some great neighbors/friends, but they've been moving to town and dying off. My wife has been gone for several years now and I think I'd like to be around more people.

And the Hollywood types are starting to buy up land...both of my offers on my place are from kind of famous people...I never heard of either of them but their lawyers assured me they're "celebrities."


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## motdaugrnds

JTB sensing the needs of others has always been second nature to me. That is why I chose a career in the field of "family counseling"; and because I'm not one to follow the trend, I chose to enter this field via "interpersonal communications". I love this type of work and thoroughly enjoy EMPOWERING others. I've been retired since mother needed me, back in 1990 yet everywhere in the news are people hurting; and I believe this pain contributes to the crime in America. (I don't see the organizations that were set to care for these people doing a very good job, especially with regard to our veterans!) Thus, here is what others might consider "crazy": Traveling around the USA (one county/state at a time), finding these people who are hurting and (without giving them money) setting up what they need to empower them to take care of themselves.

Now laugh if you want...all you so-called "sane" people in here. I love you all dearly and I can certainly understand why one would laugh at such an idea with the world as it is. Still, with my background in interpersonal communication, my strength in "walking by faith" and my desire to help others, this "retirement JOB" would fill my needs beautifully.  Also, I have no interest in an arguement about any of this. It is just fine with me for those who don't like the idea to simply walk away. My feelings will not be hurt at all.


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## unregistered353870

That sounds like a great dream! I love that it is outward-focused and about helping people. I would like to discover some ways to help people with my skills, too.

That's another part of my impulse to move to where the people are. TMC said something about an equestrian team in Philly and the inner city kids seeing horses for the first time in their lives. That got me thinking I might like to do some kind of equestrian program for inner city kids. Kids can learn a lot from horses, plus horses are just fun. I had a similar idea about boating. Detroit is on an international waterway, and probably most of the kids who live there have never even been in a boat.


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## Maura

Sure, move back to Detroit. I hated leaving Detroit, but I&#8217;d never go back.

Where exactly does family live? Who would you tend to visit the most? As long as you know your ailments, pick an area with regard to family and hospital as well as long term care.


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## werb2008

there's no place like home.Nothing wrong with Detroit.just watched a show about people getting together and planting trees and gardens to make things more substainable.


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## unregistered353870

Maura said:


> Where exactly does family live? Who would you tend to visit the most? As long as you know your ailments, pick an area with regard to family and hospital as well as long term care.


They're in clusters all over the SE-MI area...most within a 90-minute drive from Detroit. My daughter is closest, in Bloomfield Hills...probably about 30 minutes from downtown.

I don't even want to think about hospitals and long term care, but I probably should. I have been invited to live with both of my kids, but I'm not ready to do that yet. Hopefully I'll die before it becomes necessary...they're wonderful, but I don't ever want to lose my independence. Who does, right? Fingers crossed....


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## motdaugrnds

JTB those are great ideas! Using horses and/or boating is a great way of helping inner city kids. I know nothing about horses; however, if they're anything like "confident" dogs, some great "internal" skills can be taught to those kids while they are doing whatever with the horses. By getting those kids to actually FEEL POTENT AND KEEP CONFIDENCE DESPITE WHAT THEY ARE UP AGAINST, you would, indeed, be providing them some tools of inner strength that can serve them well throughout life.


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## fordy

jtbrandt said:


> Well, now I'm really curious about what you would do...I promise I won't think you're crazy if you tell us. As you can tell, I'm a little crazy myself.
> 
> I don't think I will ever really retire. I am ready for something less strenuous than ranching, though. It was supposed to be a retirement hobby, but I enjoyed it so much I kept expanding and eventually even stopped losing money at it.
> 
> Part of the wanting to move is loneliness, though...part of why I spend so much time on Homesteading Today...so many good people here. I have been out in the middle of nowhere for 30+ years and I have some great neighbors/friends, but they've been moving to town and dying off. My wife has been gone for several years now and I think I'd like to be around more people.
> 
> And the Hollywood types are starting to buy up land...both of my offers on my place are from kind of famous people...I never heard of either of them but their lawyers assured me they're "celebrities."


 ..............If I had a ranch in Mt. I'd just go and find the best looking 50 year old cowgirl I could and marry her , of course have her sign a Prenup so you can leave the Ranch to those who are special to you and make some kind of financial deal to please her as well ! Living in such a beautiful state is the ultimate blessing and I'd not be giving it up quickly . 
..............Obviously , I can't read the signals your heart and head are telling you to do , but trading a ranch in Mt. for Detroit is definitely a crazy thing to do ! I have No doubt that you could find a competent married couple to manage the ranch while you're dodging bullets in Detroit ! , fordy


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## Maura

Move to a place where you would be within 20 minutes of your children. With the expressways, that should be do-able.You used to be able to keep horses in Detroit, if your lot was large enough. That has probably changed, and I would not want to have a horse in the city. The mounted police have their own stable in Palmer Park. There are only six horses in the force.


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## unregistered353870

A little update. I definitely cannot afford to buy a parking garage...I'm about $4 million short. Parking goes for $10-20 thousand per space...probably seems cheap to New York people, but crazy high to me. That was a fun idea while it lasted, but it was impractical anyway.

I found a great apartment on AirBnB and booked it for a month to see if I like living in the city. It's more than I want to spend on housing, but it's a really good price for short term. I negotiated it down to about a third of the per night rate. Should be a good base to locate a long term place if I decide to stay.

I'm excited! I'm moving my horses to their new home in Michigan probably around the end of this month, and the closing on my ranch is looking like about the first week in May. I've been whittling down the possessions for a couple years and the things I'm keeping are mostly packed up in a shipping container ready to be moved to my nephew's farm. Not much left to do here but sell a couple trailers and say my goodbyes.

Thanks for all the advice! It was all appreciated, and will continue to help me as I figure out where I will settle down.


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## Jim-mi

My dad was transfered to Detroit just when I started 9th grade.........So I spent mucho years there before retiring here in northern Mi.
Dad had a beautiful place in northwest Detroit . . . I chummbed around with many folks from Rosedale Park.
Many memories of what Detroit once was..............
Another issue is race.......It is really bad......
I was there working with family, at the time of the race riots.......NOT NICE.

If I were to drive around the area today it would make me more than sick at the decay I would see....

Yes you are more that crazy to want to move back into the snake pit..........


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## unregistered353870

I lived there for the race riots of '43. It's why we eventually left, but not until several years later. I was only 3 years old at the time, but I could tell my dad was scared. My parents were extraordinary people in that time and place, though. They had black friends and would never tolerate any kind of racism in their home. I remember my dad throwing one of his best friends out for using a racial slur. That friend was no longer welcome at our house. Dad would still help him out with things from time to time, but they weren't close anymore.

My brother got stuck in the beginning of the '67 riots while trying to get out of the city after a Tigers/Yankees game. He ended up getting out OK. I was long gone by that point, but it was an ugly time by all accounts. I'm not particularly concerned about that though. It could happen again. If it does, I'll try to avoid getting in the middle of it. If I fail at that, maybe I'll die in a place I love. That's kind of the plan anyway. Old age, murder, whatever...dead is dead. I'm too old to worry about every bad thing that could happen.

For what it's worth, whenever I go back I at least drive through the old neighborhood, or what's left of it anyway, and sometimes I'll park and walk around. It is very close to 100% black now and in pretty bad shape, but there are many good people still there. I have met some wonderfully warm and friendly and kind people there. One time I was wandering around by myself, and a group of young black men who looked like "thugs" approached me. I'll admit I was a little concerned at first, but they turned out to be very respectful and just wanted to make sure I was OK and not lost or something. We ended up having a nice conversation. It could have just as easily been a gang robbery, but if I let fear of stuff like that stop me, my life would be really boring compared to what it's been. Not ready to stop having a good time now.

But yes, I'm crazy. Can't argue that. I guess I already knew that before I asked. The question now is how crazy. I guess I'll find out.


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## motdaugrnds

Well, one must admit that crazy people have more fun...even though some do take many risks I would never take. Hope your venture turns into all you want and that you at least have enough good sense to stay healthy.


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