# Is there a bolt action rifle that shoots a 7.62 cartridge?



## jnap31 (Sep 16, 2005)

I have an SKS and I want to get a simpler bolt action rifle now that will shoot the same ammo so I only have to stock up on one rifle cartridge type, So is their anything out there for me?


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## Highground (Jan 22, 2003)

Ruger M77 in .308

One fine rifle.


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## DrippingSprings (Sep 22, 2004)

I have a Rem in 308
I have three Rugers in 308

BTW I know this will start a good debate but the 7.62 NATO of surplus fame is NOT the same as 308. You can shoot 7.62 NATO in a rifle chambered for 308 but you should never shoot 308 in a rifle chambered for 7.62 NATO. 

NATO has steel cases and varying wall thickness etc as a result and the pressures are very different. You can buy 308 reduced by Remington that will work.

You may shoot 308 for years and get away with it and then one day it will blow up in your face without warning or it may go on the 1 3 or even 10th shot. 

There are numerous articles explaining this phenomena all over the net and in books.


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## DrippingSprings (Sep 22, 2004)

If your wanting the 762x39 like in the sks then go with a ruger Mini 30


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## DrippingSprings (Sep 22, 2004)

heres an oldie but a goodie if your into military weapons

bolt action in same caliber

http://www.rusmilitary.com/html/firearms_aiaM10.htm


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## DrippingSprings (Sep 22, 2004)

http://www.impactguns.com/store/806703030500.html

another nice bolt gun in same cal


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## bgak47 (Sep 4, 2003)

I'm not sure if anyone is making a bolt-action rifle chambered for 7.62X39mm now. I know that it Has been offered in this calibre in the past. Norinco maybe?


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## jnap31 (Sep 16, 2005)

Thanks a lot I appreciate it, I cant believe the quick responses! I Have to go eat and get ready for bed here I will check out the links tomorrow after work. Probably shouldnt say this on the net but so what, I am getting to go to the M-9 range tomorrow I always love shooting the pistol but the mark 19 was my favorite I got to qualify with that in TX while we were in training prior to the deployment along with a bunch of other things.


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## swamp man (Dec 25, 2005)

If it's a 7.62x39 ya' want,I know Ruger made a good bolt action for a while,but I dunno if it's in production anymore.
I'll second the shout-out for a mini 30,though.I love mine.


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## DrippingSprings (Sep 22, 2004)

swamp man said:


> If it's a 7.62x39 ya' want,I know Ruger made a good bolt action for a while,but I dunno if it's in production anymore.
> I'll second the shout-out for a mini 30,though.I love mine.


Yeah they did. But I dont see it on their site but I do remember seeing a couple at a gun show a couple years ago.


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## Bwana (Jul 9, 2006)

Here's a link to the page on the CZ site where they list this carbine;

http://www.cz-usa.com/product_detail.php?id=15

I'll go check for some more possibilities, OK?

Dave


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## Bwana (Jul 9, 2006)

I knew that I'd seen one recently...besides the CZ! Check it out, and the msrp is even less, I think.

http://www.remington.com/products/firearms/centerfire_rifles/model_799_specs.asp


Now, which one to choose....hmmmm! :shrug: 

Dave


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## Bwana (Jul 9, 2006)

...for the discriminating gentleman who wants to save a bundle on ammo costs;

http://www.hsprecision.com/new_phl.htm

:rock: :happy: :cowboy: :hand: :bouncy: :sing: :banana02: :rotfl: 

Dave


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## Bwana (Jul 9, 2006)

...then this should be just the ticket!

http://www.remington.com/products/firearms/centerfire_rifles/SPR_models/SPR18_specs.asp

It is a break-action single shot but hey, for the price it's kinda neat, huh?  

Dave

P.S. - Here's one last one, also a break-action single shot that should be very reasonably priced;

http://www.hr1871.com/Firearms/Rifles/youth.aspx

OK, that's all the looking I'm gonna do right now, gotta see if I'm gettin' whooped at fantasy football! :grump:


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## alabamared (May 23, 2005)

jnap31 said:


> I have an SKS and I want to get a simpler bolt action rifle now that will shoot the same ammo so I only have to stock up on one rifle cartridge type, So is their anything out there for me?



The sks shoots 7.62x39. The mini 30 shoots 7.62x39. But the mini is a semi auto.
The U.S. uses 7.62x54. The soviet union had the 7.62x51. The reds could use our bullets in their guns. We couldn't use their bullets in our guns, though.
I believe that the nato 7.62x54 is the same as .308.
I could be wrong but I think I'm right.
Red


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## Bwana (Jul 9, 2006)

I'll check it out in a second and let you know but I'm pretty sure that the NATO cartridge (as well as the .308 Win.) are the 51mm long versions and the Russian cartridge was/is 54mm. BRB.

Yup, just as I thought. Good 'ol _Cartridges of the World_!

Yes, indeed. They are two totally different cartridges. 

Dave


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## alabamared (May 23, 2005)

Yeah, now that I think about it the russian cartridge would have to be longer.


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## DrippingSprings (Sep 22, 2004)

all appearances aside the nato round and 308 winchester are NOT the same. The cases for NATO keeps the pressure much lower than 308 winchester. The cases being steel and much thicker therefore less powder less pressure


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

alabamared said:


> The sks shoots 7.62x39. The mini 30 shoots 7.62x39. But the mini is a semi auto.
> The U.S. uses 7.62x54. The soviet union had the 7.62x51. The reds could use our bullets in their guns. We couldn't use their bullets in our guns, though.
> I believe that the nato 7.62x54 is the same as .308.
> I could be wrong but I think I'm right.
> Red



I think you go them backwards. How could the shoot ours if THEIRS is the shorter one?


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## swamp man (Dec 25, 2005)

alabamared said:


> The sks shoots 7.62x39. The mini 30 shoots 7.62x39. But the mini is a semi auto.
> The U.S. uses 7.62x54. The soviet union had the 7.62x51. The reds could use our bullets in their guns. We couldn't use their bullets in our guns, though.
> I believe that the nato 7.62x54 is the same as .308.
> I could be wrong but I think I'm right.
> Red


The SKS and mini 30 are BOTH semi auto,at least "off the shelf".
No,the soviets used(and still do)the 7.62x54R,and the US used(uses)the 7.62x51 nato round,which as an above poster poited out,AINT the same as a .308 Winchester.Yeah,the can safely interchange in some weapons,but not all.
The 7.62x54 is,by no means the same as a .308,and trying to interchange those two in ANY rifle would be potentially very dangerous.


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## chrisl (Jan 20, 2006)

7.62 mm = 30 Caliber
7.62 x 39 = Chinnese, USSR Block Countries
7.62 x 54 = Same Counties as above replaced by the SKS
7.62 x 51 = NATO round, We call it .308 this replaced the 30/06

Just so there is no letal misunderstanding.


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## texican (Oct 4, 2003)

Please don't go hunting with military rounds. I have this discussion with relatives each year.... Military rounds, the 7.62x39 and the .223 are military rounds designed to wound humans, not kill em... a wounded man takes three people off the battlefield (two people to carry him).

These rounds aren't designed to kill wildlife, although they will. Get a regular hunting round, with a bullet designed to expand, with enough energy to exit the animal... 

I get ill everytime a second cousin "does" kill a deer (many get away) and he shows me the bullet, that didn't penetrate all the way through... no mushrooming...he gets lucky every now and then and hits a vital organ...


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## Bwana (Jul 9, 2006)

Yes, I personally don't have much use for either cartridge for big game hunting. I will say though, that with properly constructed bullets, the 7.62X39 does have the energy to make it ballistically similar to the .30-30 Win. to around 100 yds.

If you must use that cartridge for hunting deer, for cryin' out loud, don't use FMJ military style ammo or Wolf or anything like that! If you must use a .223 Rem., the only bullet I could recommend is the 60 gr. Nosler Partition, and then you'd better only plan on good solid broadside shots. Here in WI, it's actually legal to use a centerfire .22. I'm not quite sure why, since that would include the likes of the .22 Hornet!

Instead of looking to spend a bunch on a new rifle, just to use the same ammo, why not find something that shoots an accepted sporting cartridge that is widely available and adequate for hunting? Like the .30-30 in a Marlin 336 or a Win. 94? Ammo's cheap and plentiful and will do the job to reasonable ranges.

Dave


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## swamp man (Dec 25, 2005)

Actually,many chamberings that could be called"military"make great sporting rounds,but I agree that using surplus fmj bullets aint a good idea.Most of those chamberings are available in cartridges designed specifically for hunting.The 7.62x54R(Nagant),the 7.92x59(Mauser),and .303(Enfield),amongst others,are all fine sporting rounds,and really good factory hunting loads are available for all of 'em.A friend of mine has even found factory hunting loads for his 7.7mm Arisaka(the Japaneses' take on the Mauser)and that thing is a hammer on whitetails.
I've used it alot,and I'm a believer in the 7.62x39 as a fine short-range chambering for whitetails/hogs.It does tend to parallel the .30-.30,but the fact that spitzer rounds can be safely used with one actually gives it a bit more range potential than a .30-.30.I've used some of the domestic factory hunting loads for the 7.62x39(to the tune of about a dollar a cartridge :grump: ),but none have outperformed the cheap barnhaul jacketed soft point.Good expansion,good integrity,and always an exit wound,at least in my experience.I've never had to chase one,anyhow.
Even the .223 can be used ethically on deer,but"deer"is pretty relative aint it?The whitetails in my area,although plentiful,run a little on the small side,I only shoot does anyway,and with a good hunting load,I wouldn't hesitate to roll a white tail over with the ol' AR-15.There's a world of difference between a little deep-south whitetail and a Colorado mulie bruiser buck,though(like double the body mass,or more),and I wouldn't use a .223 one one of the big 'uns.


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## jnap31 (Sep 16, 2005)

texican said:


> These rounds aren't designed to kill wildlife, although they will. Get a regular hunting round, with a bullet designed to expand, with enough energy to exit the animal...
> 
> I get ill everytime a second cousin "does" kill a deer (many get away) and he shows me the bullet, that didn't penetrate all the way through... no mushrooming...he gets lucky every now and then and hits a vital organ...


I thought they were illeagel to hunt with cause being military they were metal jacketed and would penetrate all the way thru and keep going?


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## jnap31 (Sep 16, 2005)

Bwana said:


> Instead of looking to spend a bunch on a new rifle, just to use the same ammo, why not find something that shoots an accepted sporting cartridge that is widely available and adequate for hunting? Like the .30-30 in a Marlin 336 or a Win. 94? Ammo's cheap and plentiful and will do the job to reasonable ranges.
> 
> Dave


Good point perhaps I should after all the ammo my sks shoots is getting scarce and expensive I found out thru this thread I thought it was cheap and plentiful that is part of why I wanted something that would shoot the same ammo. Swampman I enjoyed your last post good point about the deer size diferences.


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## tallpaul (Sep 5, 2004)

DrippingSprings said:


> NATO has steel cases and varying wall thickness etc as a result and the pressures are very different. You can buy 308 reduced by Remington that will work.


This is WRONG information... nato cases are SOMETIMES steel- not exclusively steel ... Pressures differences between the two rounds are BY DESIGN- I am not sure where you got your info...


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## tallpaul (Sep 5, 2004)

DrippingSprings said:


> all appearances aside the nato round and 308 winchester are NOT the same. The cases for NATO keeps the pressure much lower than 308 winchester. The cases being steel and much thicker therefore less powder less pressure


The cases are not what keeps the pressures down. The combination of the casse design and powder and bullet choices work together to reach a designed performance level. If the case was the only thing that kept the pressure down then they could not make "proof loads" I also believe thickness' varies within the steel cases and brass depending on manufacturer and production runs etc. There may be brass cases thicker than the steel sometimes etc.


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## tallpaul (Sep 5, 2004)

oh and to answer the original question... I believe CZ makes a bolt and H&R makes a single shot. The rugers were made for davidsons I think and may be out there used or new old stock.


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## texican (Oct 4, 2003)

jnap31 said:


> I thought they were illeagel to hunt with cause being military they were metal jacketed and would penetrate all the way thru and keep going?


going all the way through is a good thing, but a FMJ doesn't expand... could easily slide a fmj thru the rib cage without hitting anything immediately vital, whereas an expanding bullet mushrooms and exponetially expands the wound channel, damaging more tissue, and leaving a huge exit hole, compared to a fmj..

don't know about illegal... in CO, there are minimum standards... of course, someone going west, and spending >300$ min. for a tag, or 450 for an elk, is probably going to want as much firepower as possible...


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## swamp man (Dec 25, 2005)

texican said:


> going all the way through is a good thing, but a FMJ doesn't expand... could easily slide a fmj thru the rib cage without hitting anything immediately vital, whereas an expanding bullet mushrooms and exponetially expands the wound channel, damaging more tissue, and leaving a huge exit hole, compared to a fmj..
> 
> don't know about illegal... in CO, there are minimum standards... of course, someone going west, and spending >300$ min. for a tag, or 450 for an elk, is probably going to want as much firepower as possible...


That's a pretty darn good explaination.
Jnap,the states I have lived in have regulations regaurding the calibre of a bulllet that may be used on specific game,but no regulations regaurding the structure of the bullet.As Tex suggested,it make a huge difference.
Basically,as a bullet is in flight,it carries x amount of kenetic energy.The general idea is to deliver as much of that energy as possible to a target,but still have just enough to pass through the critter,leaving an exit wound.As a bullet mushrooms and the surface area of the projectile grows,the energy is delivered faster and faster,creating(in layman's terms)"knockdown power".Too much expansion will consume the kenetic energy before it passes through the animal(a bad thing),but not enough wont have much of a shock effect,and not create an acceptable wound channel.Run a google search on"terminal ballistics" for a more thorough explaination.
For whitetails at a reasonable range,the 7.62x39 should do ya' just fine.It's a little harder to find than the FMJ stuff,but Barnhaul makes a jacketed soft point that performs well on whitetails,and it's cheap.The Wolf and Barnhaul(pretty much the same thing)jacketed hollow points are just as bad an idea for game as the fmj stuff,just in a different way.The structure sucks,and they tend to"blow up"on impact,and come apart in wee little bits before going very far into a critter.They are,however,a wrecking machine on coyotes.


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