# Survivalists Watching Election Closely



## Ernie (Jul 22, 2007)

I don't particularly care which candidate you're voting for because in my research I'm discovering that just about all of them are socialist, anti-liberty, fascist thugs. 

What I am curious about, is from the point of view of the rest of you survivalists, which candidates are you watching with particular worry and dread? Which ones do you think are going to vastly accelerate the problems which have led many of us to become "survivalist conspiracy nuts" in the first place? 

I'm worried about McCain because of his repeated attacks on the 2nd Amendment and his voting record as it pertains to disarming citizens.

I'm worried about Clinton because of her fascist-socialist views, and I'm worried about Obama because of his socialist voting record.


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## Callieslamb (Feb 27, 2007)

they are all part of the "system".


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## JGex (Dec 27, 2005)

Two arms of the same body.

There is legislation proposed right now in regards to guns that we're watching.... HR-1022 is going after "assault" weapons. Text of the proposed law at the bottom of http://www.morebans.org/hr1022etc.html

I almost hated going to the polls yesterday.


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## Pack Rat (Nov 9, 2006)

If giving a ride to a hitchhiker who unbeknownst to you has robbed a 7-11 makes you guilty of being an accessory to the crime, what does knowingly participating in a corrupt political process make you? What does paying taxes make you? Yet if you don't, according to the thugs and criminals, it makes you a criminal. :doh:

LOL

I've given up on participation years ago, on as many levels as possible, because by mismanagement and lies, they've lost the right to excercise dominion over my life.


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## RichieC (Aug 29, 2007)

Pack Rat said:


> If giving a ride to a hitchhiker who unbeknownst to you has robbed a 7-11 makes you guilty of being an accessory to the crime...



Ummm, it doesn't.


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## Ernie (Jul 22, 2007)

They can take your car under the Bennis decision. You're not really guilty of being an accessory, but they can seize your assets and you have no claim. Thank the Supreme Court for this one.

http://www.mackinac.org/article.aspx?ID=1273

But I digress ... I don't want to lose the thread. So it sounds like the majority of you are refusing to participate?


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## JGex (Dec 27, 2005)

I haven't completely refused to participate yet. I'm one of those annoying folk who used to tell people, "Don't complain if you didn't vote," but under current conditions, I have amended that to "I'll darned well complain if I want to if the govt is going to tax me on everything but the breaths I take."


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## MountAiry (May 30, 2007)

None of the candidates impress me much (so far), which makes it harder for me to feel any sort of loyalty to anyone yet. I normally vote Republican, but am sick with the idea of McCain possibly being the Republican candidate. I find the idea of him being president almost as distasteful as the idea of Clinton being president.

As I watched the news last night, I started to wonder if it would be a good time to introduce an outstanding independent nominee. This is something I have never really thought about before, but this year if something doesnât change, I just may.

Basically it all makes me want to renew my survival and preparedness efforts.


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## RichieC (Aug 29, 2007)

Ernie said:


> They can take your car under the Bennis decision. You're not really guilty of being an accessory, but they can seize your assets and you have no claim. Thank the Supreme Court for this one.
> 
> http://www.mackinac.org/article.aspx?ID=1273
> 
> But I digress ... I don't want to lose the thread. So it sounds like the majority of you are refusing to participate?


Well, by all means, don't digress. But just so you know, that isn't the holding of _Bennis_.


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## diane (May 4, 2002)

The only one actually running that gave me any hope was Ron Paul and we all see how far he got. Once again I will non-participate. I can not cast a vote for someone who IMHO will only harm my country.

I will hunker down and continue prepping.........I think we have a very bumpy road ahead.


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## texican (Oct 4, 2003)

Again, as usual, I care for non of the candidates... I'll do as I usually do, vote for lessor of two evils. Not voting, imho, is 'giving' away a vote for the evil'er candidate. Voting for a third party candidate is the same.

I've never accepted the premise that any president was my leader. I'm a free man. I do pay tribute, however... paying tribute, allows me to stay in one place long enough for fruit trees to blossom and flourish... paying tribute allows me to fly under the radar to a greater extent, than in the days when I lived out of the back of my vehicle. I have assets now that I didn't have before... and I'll choose a candidate based upon how much they respect my assets, and my freedom. As far as I know, there are no gun loving candidates running (maybe Hucky?)

Worser to gooder... Osama, Hillary, Romney, McCain/Huckabee, No One....

So, if it's Osamabama and McCain, I'll take Mac... not voting for Mac, is a vote for Osama...


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## Jerngen (May 22, 2006)

diane said:


> The only one actually running that gave me any hope was Ron Paul and we all see how far he got. Once again I will non-participate. I can not cast a vote for someone who IMHO will only harm my country.
> 
> I will hunker down and continue prepping.........I think we have a very bumpy road ahead.


None of Paul's supporters I know ever expected him to get the Republican nomination. We all expect him to run as an independant (or Libertarian) once the primaries are over. 
If it comes up as a McCain vs. Clinton ticket with Paul running independant, I know of diehards on both sides of the line willing to vote Paul instead! 

McCain vs. Clinton are the worst in my opinion. If Paul doesn't run, I'll either write his name in or spend election day in the local pub or far out in da woods ignoring the chaos.


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## elkhound (May 30, 2006)

Pack Rat said:


> I've given up on participation years ago, on as many levels as possible, because by mismanagement and lies, they've lost the right to excercise dominion over my life.



good lord all mighty what a statement......this is so true on so many levels.this could be or should be the statement of the century.the kind of people wanting in charge are slanted with agendas for themselves and companys for the most part.what ever happened to real men like teddy roosevelt?? this country needs someone with true balls do the right thing.i dislike all of them......if clinton gets in does she have the right to do what bill done to her intern...where will she put the cigar....roflmao.they all are a joke for the most part.they dont have a clue what the common folks need or want.


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## Ernie (Jul 22, 2007)

Well, while I like Pack Rat's statement a lot, I've got to argue the unrealistic nature of it.

We have to participate, because while they may not have the right to exercise dominion over our lives, they do have the will and the means. Namely, they control all the guns. And those of us who still have guns are monitored, tracked, and inventoried so that three days before they make their big move they can have us safely contained.

So while we may not feel it necessary to squander our energies in a rigged election (and I believe these elections are rigged), then we should still find some way to fox up the game.


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## Texas_Plainsman (Aug 26, 2007)

Just my opinion, but I'd be more concerned about what preps need to be prioritized if we have a Western European style government resulting from the election.


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## Pack Rat (Nov 9, 2006)

Sorry for the diversion.

If I _could_ vote for an American candidate for Pres, I'd choose Ron Paul, however, I like the guy well enough to hope he isn't elected, as he'd probably be assassinated by tptb in short order, just to keep the status quo. 

I'd like to see a "No" (or "none of the above") choice in ballots. 

As Ernie and Diane said, not much to do but watch carefully, and prepare as best one can, because the current agenda isn't about to be stopped by mere mortals.


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## Pack Rat (Nov 9, 2006)

Ernie, I appreciate your POV as well, and as you point out, even if a dark horse candidate could be elected by actual popular choice (e.g.: Dr. Ron Paul), there is no way any other candidate but those already chosen for the US could be installed in office (see also: election 2000 and 2004).  

I just have no faith remaining in an "honest" election, nor in the ability of men to wield great wealth and power rule a nation with fairness to all the people, or of laws from the top down to 'fix' anything (other to make sure "the fix is in"). I share the belief of William Penn, that "those who can not rule themselves, will be ruled by tyrants". I also believe that my only King was crucified at Calvary, and that he yet lives, hence to involve myself in the kingdoms of men is to deny my true citizenship.


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## YoungOne (Aug 22, 2006)

My concern is if Barac gets in. He is minority, young, little record. The congress would not put much fight against him not wanting unPC labels.

If a Dem is to go in I say through in Hillary! Most of Congress will hapily fight tooth nail claw or dagger just on the princible of "it's hillary"! 

As an AZ res McCain scares the C%^P out of me since in the 9 years I've voted he has changed colors and positions on many issues depending on who is funding and backing.

At least Huckabee is against the IRS in princible, but he would probably try some "flat tax" system to level the field, while actualy legitamizing an illegal and corrupt system.

Ron Paul was my hope, just so that his voice would be heard but the Main stream media did a pretty good job of keeping him out of the race. His running did get me to meet a lot of like minded locals so some good came of it.

That said I will vote in November, but I plan on voting for the one who will be able to get the LEAST amount done. Not a single "major" player even comes close to protecting our rights so I say lock up the white house against Congress.


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## gunsmithgirl (Sep 28, 2003)

I am for more reasons than one. As a gunsmith my job kinda depends on politics. An assault weapon ban would take out a lot of my income. I also worry about my personal freedoms as well. This election scares the heck out of me.


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## Ernie (Jul 22, 2007)

Isn't there already an assault weapon ban? Those folks I know who hold a FFL are already complaining about how they can't do much more than tinker with existing weaponry, replacing a broken screw or whatnot, without violating some law.

I'm curious, as a gunsmith, what you can actually still do?


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## crafty2002 (Aug 23, 2006)

Pack Rat said:


> :doh:
> 
> I've given up on participation years ago, on as many levels as possible, because by mismanagement and lies, they've lost the right to excercise dominion over my life.


Amen to that.


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## uyk7 (Dec 1, 2002)

Voting for the "lesser of two evils" is like trying to decide to allow a murderer or a child molester to babysit your children. I refuse to support evil (i.e. lesser of two evils). If enough people voted for RP, even if he lost, the PTB would certainly get an important message.


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## crafty2002 (Aug 23, 2006)

JGex said:


> I haven't completely refused to participate yet. I'm one of those annoying folk who used to tell people, "Don't complain if you didn't vote," but under current conditions, I have amended that to "I'll darned well complain if I want to if the govt is going to tax me on everything but the breaths I take."



They are even taxing you on the breaths you take. I worked at coal and nuclear power plants and see what the government waste for the power companies (don't get me wrong, I am deadly against big business) but they tax us buy making them do things that don't make a hill of beans.

As far as voting goes, who will you vote for if it ends up Clinton against McCain?????????????????????????????????????

THE ONLY ONES I TRUSTED EVEN A TINY BIT HAVE DROPPED OUT. 
Clinton is as bad on gun control as McCain. 

As bad as I hate to say it, someone shut me up, quick, don't let me get my foot in my mouth. Dang it, I vote for Obama. There I did it. 
I don't trust him much but way more than the rest. WAY MORE. 
JMHO
Dennis


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## crafty2002 (Aug 23, 2006)

diane said:


> The only one actually running that gave me any hope was Ron Paul and we all see how far he got. Once again I will non-participate. I can not cast a vote for someone who IMHO will only harm my country.
> 
> I will hunker down and continue prepping.........I think we have a very bumpy road ahead.


Diane, you said that better than anyone could. Hunker down, prep, and hang on for the ride. I hope I have enough ammo. I do.


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## Calico Katie (Sep 12, 2003)

Well, I'm now down to voting for Huckabee. I don't like him either but I guess he'll be ordinary sleazy instead of outstandingly sleazy. McCain is a scary guy but if he gets the nomination, he won't win anyway. The day after he got the nod, the major media would start bringing up all the dirt on his mental issues.

Between Obama and Hilary, it hurts me to say I'd have to go with the Hillster. What's she going to do? Sell the other 49% of the USA to China? We're in for a grim ride but I believe whoever is elected in November will be a one term prez. 

I am terrified of Obama. I don't think he has any allegiance to this country. All this change he's supposed to bring about ... exactly what is he going to change and how is he going to do it?


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## Blu3duk (Jun 2, 2002)

Contrary to popular belief the only people who complain are the ones who DID NOT vote. the reason being, is thse who vote do with the willingness to ACCEPT the consequences of their actions in a majority rule mob of demon-cracy socialistic communist like election process. Said election is NOT handled as set forth within the parameters of the constitution of the united States the twelfth, well sort of right? 

That said my friend from down under says she thinks we need to elect Obama from what she has read [hey she is more liberal than any other friend i have in the world I have met face to face with over the years] and the thing that puzzles her most about the several states here, is that voting is not compulsory like it is in oz..... shoot if it was then "they" [the powers that control the electrons on the screen] would have a harder time with the "chads" in Florida and other states as well.....

AS to what candidate worries me the most???? iwould rather answer which worries me the least.... but i shall refrain.

Toss all the major candidates naked into a gunny sack [that would be a feed sack for you city clickers] and then roll them out on the floor and you know what, they would all look alike, and sound alike...... you could not tell the republi-crats from the demon-crats..... though you may be able to "sex" them.

William


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## JGex (Dec 27, 2005)

I complain. 

I vote.


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## Jim-mi (May 15, 2002)

. . . .Four More Years . . . . .

For shure if mccain gets in, the Iraq thing will be continued.

Will we (the USA) have been further bled dry by then $$$ . .??


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## JGex (Dec 27, 2005)

crafty2002 said:


> They are even taxing you on the breaths you take. I worked at coal and nuclear power plants and see what the government waste for the power companies (don't get me wrong, I am deadly against big business) but they tax us buy making them do things that don't make a hill of beans.
> 
> *As far as voting goes, who will you vote for if it ends up Clinton against McCain?????????????????????????????????????*
> 
> ...


I'll vote for the person that allows me to be able to sleep at night. I'll write in Ron Paul. I will not "settle" for a "lesser of 2 evils." I'm a bit stubborn, but I have my principles and I stick by them. He is the only true fiscal conservative running and a Constitutionalist and I can stand behind both without feeling like I am selling out or buying in. 

:shrug:


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## hengal (Mar 7, 2005)

I have to admit this election scares the pee out of me too. I have never gone into an election not liking anyone......and thats where I am. I typically vote republican, but theres no way I could vote for McCain in good conscience any more that I could vote for Hillary or Obama. I think thats just a poor state of affairs when that happens, but at least it appears I'm not the only one. Right now I seriously don't think I could vote just for the sake of voting, or to "cancel out" someone elses vote. I mean really, does that truly ever happen? I think I would feel irresponsible voting for anyone that I truly did not believe in. I don't agree with the "voting for the lesser of the evils". I do find it interesting though what someone brought up about voting for Hillary because she is likely to encounter more opposition and not get as many things done (that she wants) than Obama. And lets face it, I at least, feel its going to be one of the two elected.


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## Calico Katie (Sep 12, 2003)

So, who would we want to run if we had a choice? If we could just go through the list of conservatives, who would be able to unite us? I'm sure willing to start a grass roots movement. Who would our candidate be?


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## Old_Grey_Mare (Feb 18, 2006)

JGex said:


> I'll write in Ron Paul.



And how are you going to do that on a touch screen voting machine? Elections in this country are a farce, just bread and circuses to lull the people into thinking that they can actually make a difference.


Mary


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## JGex (Dec 27, 2005)

Old_Grey_Mare said:


> And how are you going to do that on a touch screen voting machine? Elections in this country are a farce, just bread and circuses to lull the people into thinking that they can actually make a difference.
> 
> 
> Mary



Well, if I can't write him in, then I'll complain even louder. I detest voting machines... been a long-time reader of http://www.blackboxvoting.org, so I'm not buffaloed by the voting system. It's broken.


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## texican (Oct 4, 2003)

Calico Katie said:


> So, who would we want to run if we had a choice? If we could just go through the list of conservatives, who would be able to unite us? I'm sure willing to start a grass roots movement. Who would our candidate be?


Vote for ME!

Govt made simple...

Exterior Dept.... combine the State dept with the Military.

Interior Dept.... combine all land managing agencies together.

Emergency Dept.... all they do is handle natural disasters.

Ten percent sales tax for the feds....

No more welfare... of any type... Disburse whatever welfare (SS) funds there exist, and when it's gone (immediately) it's gone. This would encourage people to make wise decisions... make a bad decision (have children out of wedlock with a bum) live with it... got a crappy job, stay with it, cause it beats starving...

Of course, I make R Paul look like a slacker...


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## mightybooboo (Feb 10, 2004)

Only ONE candidate is NOT a CFR member.

The Rest are.

We have a ONE party system and thats the CFR.

As long as you vote for anyone but Ron Paul you will continue to get the CFR's candidate.

Why is that so difficult to grasp?


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## pickapeppa (Jan 1, 2005)

mightybooboo said:


> Only ONE candidate is NOT a CFR member.
> 
> The Rest are.
> 
> ...


Media brainwashing. Our society has been instilled with it from cradle to grave, tv, newspaper, radio.

Even after hearing and having been presented with all the evidence by numbers and graphs on paper, a person raised in this environment needs a personal epiphany to recognize it as reality. It's almost too hard to believe for most people. It's like believing in something your entire life, and then finding out it's all a lie. It takes time to accept.


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## Bladesmith (Sep 20, 2003)

We the people should be demanding they withdraw everyone and give us better candidates.


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## pickapeppa (Jan 1, 2005)

Bladesmith said:


> We the people should be demanding they withdraw everyone and give us better candidates.


We the people who would demand are outnumbered by the we's with no eyes.


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## YuccaFlatsRanch (May 3, 2004)

As I have said a few times before McCain vs ANYONE on the Liberal side is a hold your nose vote for McCain. I say this only because of the JUDGES that will be appointed by the next Prez. I will take McCains choice of JUDGES over the Liberals choice of JUDGES every time. That is all the election is to me. The Prez serves for 4-8 years - JUDGES serve for LIFE.


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## pickapeppa (Jan 1, 2005)

YuccaFlatsRanch said:


> As I have said a few times before McCain vs ANYONE on the Liberal side is a hold your nose vote for McCain. I say this only because of the JUDGES that will be appointed by the next Prez. I will take McCains choice of JUDGES over the Liberals choice of JUDGES every time. That is all the election is to me. The Prez serves for 4-8 years - JUDGES serve for LIFE.


A very important consideration in choosing who to cast your vote for. It boils down to, do you want judges in favor of the status quo, or do you want judges who support change?


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## CarolynRenee (Jan 30, 2008)

I normally vote Liberatarian, although I will be voting for Ron Paul this election. He is the only one who has proven to vote only according to The Constitution. 

Do I believe the elections are rigged? Of course. 

Will I vote for the "lesser of two evils"? No way. I will vote my morals.

One thing that really, really annoys me is that with all the candidates saying "I'm pro this" or "I'm anti-that"....which one of these arguing points have anything to do with The Constitution? 

There are too many that cast their votes based upon "what's in it for me" or "he's MY religion" or "she / he's a Dem or Rep.". 

Until Americans buck up and take responsibility for themselves, they will continue to be duped by the D's & R's and our liberties will continue to be trampled on until we can no longer remember what a "Free Country" was really about.


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## OkieDavid (Jan 15, 2007)

As someone else said, I'd LOVE a "none of the above" choice.....If that box one, sadly we would have to start all over but it beats the alternative of selecting the lesser of two evils.
I also firmly believe that a vote for any third party candidate in THIS election would result in Hitlary or Osamabama being crowned.... A vote for RP or some other third party runner is a vote out of McCain's box. I had extremely high hopes for RP going in but even though he gave/got the good talk in the countryside, it didn't carry in the major metro areas and we all should know by now how closely tied our fate is with their hands....
For what it's worth, ALL of my favorites threw in the towel one after another.......


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## Wanderer0101 (Jul 18, 2007)

McCain is the only one left that's serious about the security of this nation. He gets my vote on that count. Hillary or Obama would be a disaster, lots of dead people would likely be the result.


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## JGex (Dec 27, 2005)

Planning on voting for McCain? You'll need these:










Of course, you could change the name for any of the candidates in this race.....


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## DaveMac (Jun 15, 2007)

First off, as I tell everyone, "If you don't vote, you can't complain." This is why I served in the Navy, to give everyone the freedom to vote. I can't make everyone vote, all I can do is to vote myself. I have already served under Clinton and her reign would bode very bad for the Military. Look back to '93 for an example. Clinton did a massive cut back of the military. Then they were short staffed for a while. Obama would also be bad news for the military. One would think McCain would be good for the military, I did many years ago, but now I am not so sure. But with the ones running, I think McCain is the better choice. I did not vote for him in the primary in SC though. It seems each pres election gets harder and harder. I wish some good qualified people would run for office.
:bdh:


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## JGex (Dec 27, 2005)

I pay taxes that give me the right to complain. If I choose not to vote, I still have to pay taxes.


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## Jim-mi (May 15, 2002)

Yup . .except for one person RP, all the rest are a bunch of slugs.

All of the world has got to be laughing and shaking their heads at this collection of slugs **running** for an important office.

wanna hear what I really think.....................
the post would get smoked rather quickly......


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## gunsmithgirl (Sep 28, 2003)

Ernie,
Well the one I was referring to has expired, However there are still many bans on assault weapons,some so downright nit-picky it is ridiculous.

As a gunsmith I can still (for now) work on all semi-auto rifles, .50 cal rifles and even fully-automatic weapons if the person bringing it in has proper licensing. I work with a local Class 3 dealer and often work on machine guns. 

I personally don't like the term "assault weapon". The media likes to use it to impose fear in the general public. The poor victimized AK-47 and AR-15 actually make up a lot of work for me. 

Both Hillary and Obama want to ban all semi-automatic weapons, which would include a lot of hunting and sporting rifles that make up a large part of my work. Like the Remington model 742 I was working on today, a semi-auto,clip fed, hunting rifle in .30-06, not a darn bit of good for anything other than hunting but would be banned. They was not banned under the old ban, but both Dem. candidates want to include even more guns in the ban, allowing only single shot and bolt action type weapons.


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## quadcam79 (Oct 1, 2007)

diane said:


> The only one actually running that gave me any hope was Ron Paul and we all see how far he got. Once again I will non-participate. I can not cast a vote for someone who IMHO will only harm my country.
> 
> I will hunker down and continue prepping.........I think we have a very bumpy road ahead.


Oh Dr. Paul is still in the hunt... if you look at the caucus results you'll see alot of "uncommitted" votes. Most of those are Paul supporters, uncommitted still get delegate slots for the RNC where they will nominate their choice.... See what I mean...so just because the media is ignoring Ron doesnt me he isnt getting votes


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## uyk7 (Dec 1, 2002)

There are a lot of independents that will vote for RP also. Unfortunately, in many states Independents cannot vote in the primary. The two parties want us to vote for their person but don't want us to help select them.


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## DanCurrier (Feb 8, 2008)

All I can say is that to me voting RP is not the lesser of the two evils, I actually think that he will do a lot more good than harm.


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## ROSEMAMA (Jan 12, 2007)

I do vote and do complain. This is not the first election that has scared the bejeezers out of me, the last one did, too.

I have no faith in what we have to choose from and like JGex said they're just two arms from the same body. 

I guess we'll just dig in here, and try to be prepared for whatever happens. It seems like that's all we can really do anyway. (Sorry I don't seem to sound very hopeful, the choices just sound to me like it's either fascist or communist.)


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