# "Deal With Reality or Reality Will Deal With You"



## cornbread (Jul 4, 2005)

Trigger Point Red Alert: Brace for Impact

by Seahorse, moderator at the LATOC Forum
Section C. Peak Oil and Energy

Editor's Note: We're discussing this over at <a href="http://www.peakoilstore.com/forum/index.php/topic,11229.0.html" target="web">the LATOC Forum</a>. Seahorse is a former Army Ranger and now a practicing attorney in the Southern U.S. He is not prone to hysterics.

-Matt

The US is on the verge of a complete financial meltdown of its banking system. The last time this happened was the Great Depression, and that was extremely painful. For several good links and a quick overview of what's transpiring, check out these links:

<a href="http://www.peakoilstore.com/forum/index.php/topic,11196.0.html" target="web">Jim Cramer explains banking crisis</a>

<a href="http://globaleconomicanalysis.blogspot.com/2008/01/ambac-odds-of-default-73-mbia-71.html" target="web">Mish Bond Insurer Default</a>

<a href="http://www.tickerforum.org/cgi-ticker/akcs-www?post=24778" target="web">Ticker Forum Discussion on Bond Insurer Default</a>

<a href="http://pacificfreepress.com/content/view/2147/81/" target="web">Whitney article on the Deflation Timebomb</a>

On the Whitney article, pay attention to the section on banking.

As discussed in the above links, this financial meltdown is taking shape right now, and unless the Fed gov't acts to intervene, it seems impossible to stop. Unstopped, it will most likely blow up this year, and as the above articles explain, could easily happen quite soon, maybe days.

If it does unfold, it will happen very fast. In 2000, the Argentina economy collapsed, and it happened virtually overnight, but literally took place in a few days.

<a href="http://peakoil.com/fortopic3535-0.html" target="web">Argentina collapse</a>

What does this mean for us? It means that there is a serious risk of a complete financial meltdown, massive unemployment, banks closing, almost unimaginable repercussions that one may have little or no time to prepare for.

What should one do? Its hard to assign a risk factor to this, but it is grave enough and immediate enough that one should do something now, not two days from now, bc if it happens, it will happen quickly and you want to be as prepared as possible now, not next week.

I rarely recommend one take any debt, but, I feel concerned enough about this that one should buy enough food for their family and have it on hand for at least six months, even if this means putting it on the credit card. If we get lucky and get a gov't hand out as they are proposing, pay off the food bill with that, but don't wait for the hand out before taking action, we may not have six months before this goes belly up. I hope we do, and I hope it doesn't happen, but I see enough warning signs at work (lawyer working on defaulting subdivisions) that when I read links like the above, I take it very seriously.

There is another thread which talks about what to do if the gov't gives us all some money. I suggested buying food. Here's my post as to why:

If you aren't worried about the credit crisis, the very fact that the gov't is getting ready to give every frickin one of us money for nothing should be a flashing red light, with sirens sounding. THIS IS A RED ALERT! There is no bigger sign of a crisis than the Romans throwing bread out to the citizens. TAKE ACTION NOW!

I personally always look for trigger points to make key decisions, the gov't throwing out money to prevent a crisis is one of them. A trigger point is that point in planning that if a pre-condition happens, you take a preplanned action. This is a trigger point. When the government passes out free money bc of a admitted financial crisis, you are an absolute fool if you don't take it seriously. This is not the tech bubble of 2001 (which was caused by overblown tech stock prices and didn't affect banks). This is a financial crisis where the world's largest banks may literally go bankrupt - this effects everyone!! The fact that experts worldwide reckon this as comparable to the Great Depression should be scary enough, and now that the gov't is discarding Adam Smith and literally giving money away for nothing to prevent a financial collapse from happening should scare the crap out of you. Take this seriously.

The government is getting ready to give everyone a bonus, who knows how much. Spend it wisely by investing in food. If you have credit card debts, car payments etc, do not use this money to pay on those regular bills, do not buy anything like a t.v. etc., do not take a vacation with it. Make this money work for you and BUY SOME FOOD! Especially if you have kids or anyone depending on you. This is a real opportunity to get ahead in the preparation game, use it wisely. Food is much more important than matches, solar, bullets, any other preparation. Food is the base level of survival, everything else is secondary! It is the reason why we work, EVERYTHING ELSE IS SECONDARY!

Buy food for the following reasons:

(1) I see people lose their jobs in the best of environments, and when they do, they don't have money to buy groceries! Don't let that happen to you. Most jobs will likely be in jeopardy over the next 2 years. Unless you are a gov't employee or working for a utility, a doctor or a nurse, your job security isn't very good. Buy food now, bc you may not have a monthly income to buy it later;

(2) Food prices are continually going up, call it stagflation or whatever. They will not be going down in the foreseeable future. Buy food now, bc food prices will never be cheaper. Buy it now while its available, at the best prices, and while you have a windfall to buy it;

(3) Even if you file for bankruptcy someday, they are not going to take the food in your pantry; its never happened. Food is not personal property which can be seized. Anything else you own can be seized. Buy food that you can keep and take it with you no matter what happens. You will not regret it.

(4) Even if you lose everything and were left in a tent city, if you have a sleeping bag and FOOD, you will be okay. If you have food, what money you do have coming in can be used to rebuild your life and buy other things. FOOD is security in the worse of times.

(5) If we get $600 or more gov't play money, you can buy a lot of food with this. Use every penny on food. A 50lb bag of rice is about $20, same for a 50lb bag of beans. Peanut butter, honey, canned goods, all will last a long time and are fairly cheap. Buy it and sock it away. Hold it for two years as a security, if nothing has happened by then, start eating it, no big deal.

(6) Food is the best investment right now, the only thing guaranteed to hold its value and, if the worse does happen, may be the only thing of value.

Do not waste this opportunity. If you don't have a store of food, get it now while you can! Don't waste this money by sending it to the credit card company or anyone else. Pay yourself with it by investing it in you, literally, and your family. You will not regret it.

The only thing you cannot do without in your life is food. This is a freebee, use it wisely.

If you already have food for six months, then make sure you have a good warm sleeping bag for you and all your immediate family. I picked up two today at a surplus store for $60 each. Sleeping bags are cheap, last a lifetime, and keep you warm even if you can't pay your utilities or are sleeping in some tent city bc you lose your job and your house. They are lightweight and easy to transport. They are your mobile shelter. If you don't have a good sleeping bag, I would also recommend getting one now, even if you have to buy it with a credit card.

This purpose of this thread is not to debate the credit crisis, but to discuss and share ideas as to what people can do right now to make their situation better should they lose their job, home, etc.

I would also recommend learning about your local food shelters, where they are located, local unemployment office, etc. Start educating yourself now by reading about local support services for the poor and physically finding out where they are located.

<a href="http://www.kqzyfj.com/click-2155903-10363185?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.nitro-pak.com%2Findex.php%3FcPath%3D38" target="WEB">High-Quality Storable Food at Great Prices Available from LATOC Affiliate Nitro-Pak.</A>

"Deal With Reality or Reality Will Deal With You"

http://www.lifeaftertheoilcrash.net/...ggerPoint.html


----------



## Ohio Rusty (Jan 18, 2008)

Everyone is entitled to their opinions and feelings, but I so disagree with all the food ramblings and the doom and gloom proposed by the above post. 
The first thing I'm going to do if the check comes is to pay off debt. The less I have going out, the more I get to keep and save. The rest of it will go into savings to get interest. I may purchase a small amount of reloading supplies though. The average american is going to weather the storm and get thru this with little or no problem, and come out on the other side, smarter, better prepared for any future problems and come out smelling like a rose. Isn't that why we are smart enough to prepare in the first place?

I've seen and been thru oil embargo's, down turns, unemployment, personal crisis, divorce, life and deaths and I'm still not down and broken like the the doom and gloom sayers say we are going to be. If this will be as bad as everyone says, then that terrible depression of 1929 should have killed off everyones grandparents. It didn't ... and we'll come out more learned and on top of things like the generations before us. 
Quit all the worrying and take everything a day at a time .....
Ohio Rusty


----------



## hintonlady (Apr 22, 2007)

Not everyone has the same reality. (for starters)

This is something that has been discussed in here for months and frankly is old news.

no knee jerk today.............


----------



## Ohio Rusty (Jan 18, 2008)

What really appears to be the best advice comes from Psalms 27:1-3 and Psalms 91:9-11.
We are protected from all problem thru our faith in Jesus Christ. He will supply our needs and supply it abundantly he promises. I believe in that promise. That is why I don't worry ........
Ohio Rusty ><>


----------



## damoc (Jul 14, 2007)

Having a good supply of food is never a bad idea as long as it is not wasted . 
yes i get tired of the doom and gloom but have already been through a lot of expieriences where a good supply of food was very welcome possibly not life and death but its sure a good moral booster.think of it this way if you remain prepared you can always be in a position to help someone else. that, the way i understand it is what christianity is all about i think there is something in there also about god
helps those who help themselves.and something about coming like a thief
in the night and happy is he who stays awake and keeps his outer shirt/ coat
or some such.

why are we just thinking about ourselves and expecting to be rescued by our savior because of our faith when we could be doing a lot to take care of ourselves and help our neighbor.

you cant eat cash,credit cards or gold and its possible one day that there
will be limited food for sale or perhaps you just cant get to where you
can buy it.

Mostly I consider the advice in this article to be good


----------



## TNHermit (Jul 14, 2005)

There's no doubt that we need a correction. ITs the way free markets work What needs to happen is for the goverment to get out of the way and let things work out. I love watching the banks lose their behinds. I made it through Jimmy Carter I'll make it through this


----------



## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

The OP says the guy is "not prone to hysterics" and yet he's on a "peak oil store" forum?

The whole premise of the site is based on hysteria


----------



## hillsidedigger (Sep 19, 2006)

Bearfootfarm said:


> The OP says the guy is "not prone to hysterics" and yet he's on a "peak oil store" forum?
> 
> The whole premise of the site is based on hysteria


So, are you saying that 'peak oil' is not going to happen

or that it just won't affect anybody?


----------



## damoc (Jul 14, 2007)

wasnt noah considered a hysteric in his day?


----------



## damoc (Jul 14, 2007)

what would we say to someone telling us about katrina before it happened

me id probably think o well maybee it could happen probably not to me though

and id probably think the person telling me about it needed to drink a little less coffee or something and stop worrying about what might happen.

just cause they are a little hysterical or doom and gloomers does not mean
that it cant happen and does not mean we should not be a little prepared.
for some unexpected and rare posibilities


----------



## diane (May 4, 2002)

This guy is NOT giving good advice. There were many people who put all sorts of food preps on credit cards before Y2K when they paid attention to this hysterical retoric. Yes, a supply of food is a very good thing to have and has sure saved me from difficulties putting food on the table more than once in my long life, but there really should be no need to put it on a credit card. 

I have been reading on some of these forums since the 90's. Anyone remember Ruff Times?? Do I think there is a possiblity of hard times? Sure, there always is a possibility and for that reason I am a prepper.

Oh and damoc, this guy is NOT GOD!!!! Noah was listening to God and he got directions directly from God. I seriously doubt that God is telling this guy to tell folks to put food on their credit cards as it is not biblical.


----------



## Ohio Rusty (Jan 18, 2008)

Damoc wrote:
D*) the way i understand it is what christianity is all about i think there is something in there also about god helps those who help themselves.

Ans.) Actually that quote is not anwhere in the bible about helping those who help themselves. It's a common error. God doesn't need us to help ourselves. He already has his hand outstretched to help us. You just have to reach for it.
________________________________________________________
D*) something about coming like a thief in the night and happy is he who stays awake and keeps his outer shirt/ coat or some such.

Ans.) The thief in the night is referring to Satan coming like a thief in the night to destroy you. The shirt/cloak is from the sermon on the mount (paraphrasing) where if your enemy wants your shirt, give him your cloak also.
That is really great wisdom you brought up Damoc as if times get tough, it is much better to help our neighbors and strangers that need assistance instead of getting out your AK-47 and blowing away people because you want to protect your cans of green beans and some bread. Society will get along better if everyone is helpful to each other during a crisis.
_____________________________________________________________
D*) why are we just thinking about ourselves and expecting to be rescued by our savior because of our faith when we could be doing a lot to take care of ourselves and help our neighbor.

Ans.) Actually it could appear that way but if we follow the teachings of the Bible, we'll do all we can to help others. The bible actually talks about helping out people poorer than ourselves. My door is always open to helping others. and often I'll stop to help out people broke down, people in needs of food and clothing, etc.
I don't expect my saviour to rescue me ..... he already has!! When I became saved, Jesus threw me my lifeline. Eternal lifeline that is .....
Ohio Rusty


----------



## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

hillsidedigger said:


> So, are you saying that 'peak oil' is not going to happen
> 
> or that it just won't affect anybody?


I dont think it will happen in the next couple of hundred years


----------



## hillsidedigger (Sep 19, 2006)

An optimist thinks this is the best of all possible worlds

a pessimist thinks the optimist is unfortunately likely correct

and I can't even imagine what one who thinks current trends can continue for another 200 years is.


----------



## damoc (Jul 14, 2007)

diane said:


> This guy is NOT giving good advice. There were many people who put all sorts of food preps on credit cards before Y2K when they paid attention to this hysterical retoric. Yes, a supply of food is a very good thing to have and has sure saved me from difficulties putting food on the table more than once in my long life, but there really should be no need to put it on a credit card.
> 
> I have been reading on some of these forums since the 90's. Anyone remember Ruff Times?? Do I think there is a possiblity of hard times? Sure, there always is a possibility and for that reason I am a prepper.
> 
> Oh and damoc, this guy is NOT GOD!!!! Noah was listening to God and he got directions directly from God. I seriously doubt that God is telling this guy to tell folks to put food on their credit cards as it is not biblical.


First sorry if you thought I was comparing this guy or his message to Noah
or god that wasnt my intention it was a bad example but the first one that popped into my head of the point i was trying to make.

i said in a previous post i thought his advice was *mostly * good the maxing out or overuse of a credit card to buy food was one of the things that i dont realy agree with but i would right now if i didnt have a good supply
of food use a credit card to go out and buy some long storage basics 

like sugar,honey,rice and basic canned food etc

prior to y2k i went and bought a couple of hundred dollars worth of extra
food just in case I didnt believe y2k was going to happen it was just to 
popular ,expected it became more a marketing oportunity but what did it hurt 
me to have a little extra food on hand it was all consumed although i did get sick of top ramen noodles.

there are and have been a lot of hysterical claims and warnings put forth
even over my lifetime nuclear holocost,earth changes,pole shift,y2k,the coming ice age,global warming,peak oil,asteroid impact,pandemic,financial
crisis and probably much more that i dont know about.most have at least a 
grain of truth so most could happen or have happened or will happen again.
something these things have in common is that somebody is probably making
money from your fear of these things.

but even so what does it hurt to buy some extra food just in case?as long as it does not rot before you can use it. he is right its not going down in price
its likely to be the only thing of value to someone without it.and he is also
right about the government giving us money back. :lookout: 

Or even better start producing some of your own food i wish he had mentioned that

more and more humans less and less EASY resources something has got to 
give personally im a little more concerned with fresh water supply than oil but thats just me.


----------



## hintonlady (Apr 22, 2007)

if everyone were worried about the economy and started spending on preps instead of luxuries....?

wouldn't that in essence stimulate said economy?

lol


----------



## diane (May 4, 2002)

I agree damoc........prepping is a good thing. I don't think, however, anyone here need hysteria to motivate them to prep. It is a bit like an over eager evangalist coming into a church screaming about hell. Personally, I don't like it.  But, to each his own. Glad you are here and always glad to "meet" another prepper.


----------



## damoc (Jul 14, 2007)

hintonlady said:


> if everyone were worried about the economy and started spending on preps instead of luxuries....?
> 
> wouldn't that in essence stimulate said economy?
> 
> lol


spending on anything will i expect stimulate the economy but i dont know
of many people who have any real money to spend most seem to be heavily
burdened on a high mortgage or credit cards.the government could possibly
stimulate the economy with some sort of national development plan but where
will the money for that come from?most likely printed out of thin air which 
again drives the value of the dollar down and prices up.

we still have baby boomers and social security to worry about also.

It seems like most of our manufacturing jobs have gone overseas 
and in return for that we have a billion tons of bobel head dolls clogging
up our land fills. 

Im no financial whiz so i know i cant make a good argument for how bad the 
economy realy is.even if the government does pull of some sort of recovery
have the vast majority of americans learned anything? probably not they will
go straight back to buying trinkets with their credit cards.

maybee we need a good recesion to teach us monetery responsibility like
our grandparents learned during the great depression.


----------



## damoc (Jul 14, 2007)

diane said:


> I agree damoc........prepping is a good thing. I don't think, however, anyone here need hysteria to motivate them to prep. It is a bit like an over eager evangalist coming into a church screaming about hell. Personally, I don't like it.  But, to each his own. Glad you are here and always glad to "meet" another prepper.


i dont like the over eager
hysterical doom and gloomers either I think of them all as Nutters


----------



## DocM (Oct 18, 2006)

Isn't it an oxymoron to include references to a mythical story (Noah) in a thread about "reality"?


----------



## swamp man (Dec 25, 2005)

DocM said:


> Isn't it an oxymoron to include references to a mythical story (Noah) in a thread about "reality"?


So, I should halt the construction of my gigantic survial boat?
What will I do with all these animals?
Dang.


----------



## FourDeuce (Jun 27, 2002)

"what would we say to someone telling us about katrina before it happened"

Say? Everybody pretty much ignored the people warning about it for decades. :shrug: Just like they ignore(and trivialize) anybody now who talks about preparing for bad times. :nono:


----------



## hintonlady (Apr 22, 2007)

I thank goodness for my ultra responsible and financially cautious DH.

Although we have a mortgage *gasp*

He pays off his credit card every month or in a worst case scenario does so asap. We never look at credit as a way to "layaway" our expenses. If we aint got the cash this month or coming in the mail, we can't afford it! Plain and simple.

Living beyond ones means is the first step toward personal financial disaster.

Banks ignoring ones means is the next step toward a nations financial disaster.

Not sure what grids, graphs and tables are used when extending credit.....I imagine if lending/credit institutions took the time to look at a households budget vs. credit limits there is NO WAY it can all get paid.

my DH has some HUGE credit limits because he always pays on time. However, if he used his entire line of credit we would be bankrupt in months.....simple math really.


----------



## GrannyCarol (Mar 23, 2005)

Frankly I'm one of those that thinks, the way things are going today, this world is in for some horrific things. Some of you might think I am hysterical or a "doom and gloomer". Truth is, I'm quite calm about it for myself. My God has given me a very long term survival plan, as well as the promise of providing for me perfectly today. I don't know how that will look or turn out, but I'm sure He isn't lying to me. 

I do the things that I desire to do, as God shapes my desires to meet with His. I see that our modern science is designed to work directly against the living God, hence the thought that the story of Noah is mythical (fostered by science) rather than true. However, Noah as a prepper was working directly under the tutelage of God. Today I am far more concerned about the loss of personal liberty, the shift towards socialism or Marxism in this country, the way the Social Security number is already used (which God hates) and the upcoming Real ID than about starving. I know that God hates tyranny, because He is not a tyrant, and He hates the number of the beast as much as the mark of the beast. (Who can buy or sell TODAY without a number? Very few.) 

I'm not so worried about food tomorrow, though I enjoy gardening, canning, being more and more self sufficient and less reliant on the world for my life. I am "prepping" in my heart and mind for the day that those that love liberty will be counted as criminals and I will be unsurprised to end up in prison just for the hearing and believing of the living God, not for any truly criminal act I perform. Heh, I say that and, to be honest, I know I am still afraid and lack the trust I desire in God, even though He has made me many promises and brought many of them to pass. He truly is a great and good God and has promised to see me through whatever is ahead for me. I thank Him for that.


----------



## Deacon Mike (May 23, 2007)

Bearfootfarm said:


> The OP says the guy is "not prone to hysterics" and yet he's on a "peak oil store" forum?
> 
> The whole premise of the site is based on hysteria


I agree with the concept of peak oil, and I find that site to be way over the top


----------



## Wisconsin_Cur (Jan 31, 2008)

Ohio Rusty said:


> What really appears to be the best advice comes from Psalms 27:1-3 and Psalms 91:9-11.
> We are protected from all problem thru our faith in Jesus Christ. He will supply our needs and supply it abundantly he promises. I believe in that promise. That is why I don't worry ........
> Ohio Rusty ><>



Elijah only helped one widow (as far as we know). Do you think she was the only starving widow (and child) in Israel? or the only one deserving of help? or that a lot died because they could not afford or chose not to prepare for the "hard times" that the God inflicted drought brought?

I'm not being antagonistic but think it is a real question. I know lots of people who are not willing to trust Jesus to protect them from a three day snowstorm (which they do prepare for) but when you bring up the idea of long-term hard times say, "I trust Jesus to supply all of my needs." Why don't we trust him for a three day snowstorm? I trust the Spirit enough to say, "Maybe it is the spirit telling me to prepare for a (metaphorical) ten year snowstorm."


----------



## ro2935 (Aug 23, 2007)

swamp man said:


> So, I should halt the construction of my gigantic survial boat?
> What will I do with all these animals?
> Dang.


Looks like you have enough fire wood and meat for a barbque, so I guess the party is at your place swamp man, I can bring wine :buds:


----------



## tn_junk (Nov 28, 2006)

ro2935 said:


> Looks like you have enough fire wood and meat for a barbque, so I guess the party is at your place swamp man, I can bring wine :buds:


Count me in on the Bar B Que, I gots beer.

alan


----------



## hillsidedigger (Sep 19, 2006)

http://www.curevents.com/upload/showthread.php?p=865784#post865784

http://dieoff.org/

Every person thats born will die

but after the oil crash, most will die much sooner.


----------



## GrannyCarol (Mar 23, 2005)

Wisconsin_Cur said:


> Elijah only helped one widow (as far as we know). Do you think she was the only starving widow (and child) in Israel? or the only one deserving of help? or that a lot died because they could not afford or chose not to prepare for the "hard times" that the God inflicted drought brought?
> 
> I'm not being antagonistic but think it is a real question. I know lots of people who are not willing to trust Jesus to protect them from a three day snowstorm (which they do prepare for) but when you bring up the idea of long-term hard times say, "I trust Jesus to supply all of my needs." Why don't we trust him for a three day snowstorm? I trust the Spirit enough to say, "Maybe it is the spirit telling me to prepare for a (metaphorical) ten year snowstorm."


I guess Jesus will provide for those that truly believe in Him. The rest better start prepping. How do you know if Jesus will provide for you? Ask Him - He lives and speaks today as always. My God has spoken to me about provision, He is leading me to where He wants me to be and showing me what He wants me to do. My preparation is first in His Spirit.


----------



## damoc (Jul 14, 2007)

Im not very good at telling stories or jokes so if anybody can improve on this
Id apreciate it somebody has probably heard this before.But basically there is
a very faithfull man and a flood apraoches first the rescue workers arive at 
the door telling him to evacuate he says no god will provide and protect they
leave later as the flood levels rise he has to move to an upper storey and the
rescue workers arive in a boat to rescue him he replies no god will provide 
and protect they leave.finally he has to move to the roof of the house the 
rescue workers arrive with a helicopter and he replies no god will provide and 
protect they again leave him and finally he is consumed by the flood and 
when he gets to heaven he asks god why didnt you keep me safe god replies 
well i sent a truck a boat and a helicopter what more did you want?


----------



## GrannyCarol (Mar 23, 2005)

GrannyCarol said:


> I guess Jesus will provide for those that truly believe in Him. The rest better start prepping. How do you know if Jesus will provide for you? Ask Him - He lives and speaks today as always. My God has spoken to me about provision, He is leading me to where He wants me to be and showing me what He wants me to do. My preparation is first in His Spirit.


I wanted to correct this after I thought for a time. Jesus does provide for His believers, but to know His provision for things like the roof over your head and the food in your mouth is a deep place and requires a lot of God dealing with a believer and that believer having dealings with God. It's not "automatic" and can't be just claimed because one reads it in the bible. It will either be given by God personally, the living God who speaks and has power, or the claim will be against His will and useless. 

As for the story of the man that got to heaven and asked God why He didn't take care of him in the flood... that is entirely foreign to me. If a boat came, I would be free to take it or not as I desired... if God truly sent something He wanted me to take, He'd tell me. If He weren't going to, He would give me rest and peace within His Spirit. The man that sat on the roof with no idea of the mind of God didn't know Him to start with and isn't likely to be meeting Him in heaven. We need to know the mind of God today or we are like the virgins with no oil in our lamps, left out of the marriage of the Lamb.


----------



## pickapeppa (Jan 1, 2005)

All I know is, there are lots of comparisons these days between the numbers, graphs, and patterns of now vs. prior to the depression. It's unnerving as a minimum, and terrorizing if you let it get to you. It does both to me, some days I'm more optimistic, others not.

Here are some graphs posted on a blog from the St. Louis Federal Reserve Bank. These are *real* numbers. Of particular interest is the amount borrowed by the banks, the amount they have on reserve, and how much of that is free for lending or investing purposes. When the real numbers get this out of whack (you'll see what I mean when you look at the graphs), something is really wrong.

What do these graphs say to you?

I'm no financial wizard, but these graphs say to me, it's time to keep some cash in the sock drawer and slowly build up the supply outside of the banking system just in case.

My gut is telling me that if the government is throwing 150 billion dollars back to the taxpayers, they see something potentially horrifying coming down the pike. I'd say spending it on preps is probably a good idea, and one that hadn't occurred to me until reading this post.

Instead of home repairs as were planned, maybe we'll put in that orchard we've been wanting to plant.


----------



## texican (Oct 4, 2003)

This talk about the 'lord will provide' reminds me of the masses that set out on the Crusades, almost a millenium ago... they made zero preparations, and started out with only their clothes on their backs... The Lord will Provide, turned out to be a mass looting of the countryside, on the way to the Holy Lands... And we know how that turned out... Constantinople welcomed them at first, then had hostilities, as the guests wouldn't leave... All of the crusaders wore out their welcome (and their hosts larder) quickly.

Present time... Those who's prep is the "Lord Will Provide" will be the first ones wanting what's left of the govt to take what we've stored... then will want to take it by force... they will not willingly lay down and die... when they see their children dying of hunger...


----------



## pickapeppa (Jan 1, 2005)

texican said:


> This talk about the 'lord will provide' reminds me of the masses that set out on the Crusades, almost a millenium ago... they made zero preparations, and started out with only their clothes on their backs... The Lord will Provide, turned out to be a mass looting of the countryside, on the way to the Holy Lands... And we know how that turned out... Constantinople welcomed them at first, then had hostilities, as the guests wouldn't leave... All of the crusaders wore out their welcome (and their hosts larder) quickly.
> 
> Present time... Those who's prep is the "Lord Will Provide" will be the first ones wanting what's left of the govt to take what we've stored... then will want to take it by force... they will not willingly lay down and die... when they see their children dying of hunger...


All guess it all depends on which end of God's grace a person wants to be a part of . . . the giving end, or the receiving end.


----------



## edcopp (Oct 9, 2004)

cornbread said:


> Trigger Point Red Alert: Brace for Impact
> 
> by Seahorse, moderator at the LATOC Forum
> Section C. Peak Oil and Energy
> ...


Red Flag I Guess.

When was the last time the government sent money to everyone?:bash:


----------



## Texas_Plainsman (Aug 26, 2007)

Maybe you are sincere in that statement; however, when I usually hear that, it is quite lame.

1. Do you have health insurance?

2. Do you have life insurance?

3. Do you have automobile insurance?

4. Do you have property insurance?

5. Do you have income insurance?

6. Do you have disability insurance?

etc....

So, what's the problem with storing some beans and rice?



Ohio Rusty said:


> What really appears to be the best advice comes from Psalms 27:1-3 and Psalms 91:9-11.
> We are protected from all problem thru our faith in Jesus Christ. He will supply our needs and supply it abundantly he promises. I believe in that promise. That is why I don't worry ........
> Ohio Rusty ><>


----------



## pickapeppa (Jan 1, 2005)

edcopp said:


> Red Flag I Guess.
> 
> When was the last time the government sent money to everyone?:bash:


I can think of two times in recent years -

1) The child tax credit rebate 
2) The tobacco settlement rebate

But nothing nearly as large as this one. I think they're scared enough to replace their underwear daily.


----------



## uyk7 (Dec 1, 2002)

"So, what's the problem with storing some beans and rice?"

There isn't anything wrong with preparing as best you can but you shouldn't rely on what you have. If God is on your side then you will be fine is basically what Ohio Rusty is saying. I for one agree.


----------



## PhilJohnson (Dec 24, 2006)

Ohio Rusty said:


> I've seen and been thru oil embargo's, down turns, unemployment, personal crisis, divorce, life and deaths and I'm still not down and broken like the the doom and gloom sayers say we are going to be. If this will be as bad as everyone says, then that terrible depression of 1929 should have killed off everyones grandparents. It didn't ... and we'll come out more learned and on top of things like the generations before us.
> Quit all the worrying and take everything a day at a time .....
> Ohio Rusty


Unlike oil embargoes, and economic disruptions, peak oil is not a temporary problem that can be solved by simply weathering the storm. Also this is not a Y2K type problem and anybody trying to compare it to that in my opinion does not really understand the problem. 

Simply put, oil is finite, it will run out. Do nothing and your children and grandchildren will certainly be worse off. Without oil our population would have never grown to the levels it has today. To base a whole civilization on a finite resource will lead to disaster. Everyone that says that this is a bunch of doom and gloom nonsense has no understanding of how the physical world works. 

The whole idea that they, the Market, Government, Scientist will solve our problems while the common folk just sit around and go about business as usual and not have to make serious changes to their life style is flawed. People living in the US while World War Two was going on didn't simply go about their daily business. They had to cut back, eat less, go without being able to buy new items. It took a real effort by almost everyone living in this country to ensure our victory. 

On a local level within your community do you see any one even remotely concerned with cutting back or trying to make their community sustainable beyond a couple token recycling programs. 

On a national level I see no serious effort to trying to wean us off oil. Why? Because it will take sacrifices, it will mean low economic growth or even no growth, no more instant gratification, and most of all a lower standard of living. 

If there is any difference between people of today and people of WW-II, people then were willing make sacrifices on a personal level to accomplish a common goal. 

Also to try and compare past problems such as the Great Depression, the Oil Embargo, and then to use the argument that we came out of all those things okay therefore we should just ignore peak oil and not worry about it strikes me as rather foolish.

Taking things one day at a time and not worrying have brought plenty of disasters upon us. It is that kind of mentality that made the Katrina disaster such a disaster, created the Great Depression, created the hyperinflation of Germany in the 1920s, plus many more. 

Peak oil is like a sinking boat. There is a hole in the hull and in order to patch it fast enough everyone on the boat has to pitch in. But only a couple people try to patch the boat whilst everyone else fishes or does what ever else they feel like. The majority really don't want to be bothered and fixing the hole is hard work and they may get wet in the process. Besides, according to their logic some one else is working on the problem for them. By the time they start worrying enough to act the boat is half under water and now what could have been a minor inconvenience is now a major life threatening problem.

I am not saying we should go around biting our nails and giving our selves ulcers worrying about peak oil. Panic serves no purpose. Instead we need to pull of a WW-II style effort and get our hands dirty. The only way we can honestly avoid a major catastrophe is if everyone helps out and changes their life style. Sadly I see very very few people even taking the issue of peak oil seriously and even less doing anything about it. Regardless of if oil peaks out next year or 50 years from now it is the responsible thing to try and lessen its effects as much as possible by changing now.

And until I see a major effort being put forth my money is on the doomers being correct.


----------



## Andy Nonymous (Aug 20, 2005)

Phil! you took the red pill! :goodjob:


----------



## JGex (Dec 27, 2005)

> On a national level I see no serious effort to trying to wean us off oil. Why? Because it will take sacrifices, it will mean low economic growth or even no growth, no more instant gratification, and most of all a lower standard of living.


There's no serious effort to wean us from petroleum because the people in control are invested heavily in the oil business. As long as we have oil men in charge of the govt., they will look out for their monetary interests and not the greater good of the people.


----------



## uyk7 (Dec 1, 2002)

"I've seen and been thru oil embargo's, down turns, unemployment, personal crisis, divorce, life and deaths and I'm still not down and broken like the the doom and gloom sayers say we are going to be. If this will be as bad as everyone says, then that terrible depression of 1929 should have killed off everyones grandparents. It didn't ... and we'll come out more learned and on top of things like the generations before us. 
Quit all the worrying and take everything a day at a time ....."

Read Revelations. It will get a lot worse before it gets better.


----------



## PhilJohnson (Dec 24, 2006)

JGex said:


> There's no serious effort to wean us from petroleum because the people in control are invested heavily in the oil business. As long as we have oil men in charge of the govt., they will look out for their monetary interests and not the greater good of the people.


While I have no doubt there are more than a few oil men running the show in Washington, I do doubt even without the influence of them in government people still would not be interested in doing any sort of major change. Bottom line is that most people here love the way things are currently. Unless the solution will allow them to live at least as well as they do now no one will go for it. 

I can't see a politician trying to get elected telling people that they will have to give up many of the things they enjoy today in order to avoid a crisis in the future.


----------



## Aintlifegrand (Jun 3, 2005)

JGex said:


> There's no serious effort to wean us from petroleum because the people in control are invested heavily in the oil business. As long as we have oil men in charge of the govt., they will look out for their monetary interests and not the greater good of the people.



It is less about that group and more about the masses to me.. they are unconcerned, detest being inconvienced in any way, and they refuse to think about tommorrow. The govt. nor Big business will do nothing until the people demand it and the people will not demand it until the pain is great..unfortunately. Therefore I prep.


----------



## texican (Oct 4, 2003)

imho, The ones, running the show, are the millions of people that fill up their tanks with gas and diesel, each week. When it costs more to go to work, than work provides, the end of the oilopoly will occur. I'm trying to cut consumption by half.

This country is addicted to oil. Because oil is life. Without oil, how will you get to work. How will you plow your fields. How will you get your food. Our lives are based on oil... even people who think they don't use oil, Do, directly or indirectly.


----------



## michiganfarmer (Oct 15, 2005)

ok, first thing.

Cut this whole thing out, write a little note about your opinion on the article, and give us a link.

cripes


I love the tittle though


----------



## two_barking_dogs (Sep 17, 2002)

uyk7 said:


> "I've seen and been thru oil embargo's, down turns, unemployment, personal crisis, divorce, life and deaths and I'm still not down and broken like the the doom and gloom sayers say we are going to be. If this will be as bad as everyone says, then that terrible depression of 1929 should have killed off everyones grandparents. It didn't ... and we'll come out more learned and on top of things like the generations before us.
> Quit all the worrying and take everything a day at a time ....."
> 
> Read Revelations. It will get a lot worse before it gets better.


I love this type of attitude where you assume that the present will be the same as the past. Yes I survived the gas lines of the late 70's and thus will survive the gas lines of 2009 or 2010 or whenever. 

The next gas shortages may be caused by a disruption or supply due to terrorism or peak oil and not because of Opec turning off the supply. Yes they both lead to lines at the pump but the 70's lines went away. In the depression we meaning the US had the advantage of cheap and available fuel. In the next depression we may not be so lucky

$10 a gallon gas is going to change the way we live. IMO it will not be for the better. Having preps is like having a bankaccount. You're not against having a bankaccount are you? You save for a rainy day. 6 months of food put up is just saving for a rainy day. Thats what my grandma did with the garden harvest every year even though she had the money to go to the store and buy what she wanted. And thats what I do today.

For my fellow thumpers out there

Proverbs 22:3 A prudent person foresees the danger ahead and takes precautions; the simpleton goes blindly on and suffers the consequences.


----------



## JGex (Dec 27, 2005)

Aintlifegrand said:


> It is less about that group and more about the masses to me.. they are unconcerned, detest being inconvienced in any way, and they refuse to think about tommorrow. The govt. nor Big business will do nothing until the people demand it and the people will not demand it until the pain is great..unfortunately. Therefore I prep.


My FIL says it like this: "Nothing will change until the people are hungry."


----------



## JGex (Dec 27, 2005)

uyk7 said:


> Read Revelations. It will get a lot worse before it gets better.


I'll be so glad when the age of enlightenment happens.


----------



## texican (Oct 4, 2003)

Originally Posted by uyk7 View Post
Read Revelations. It will get a lot worse before it gets better.



JGex said:


> I'll be so glad when the age of enlightenment happens.


But then it'll be a lot better!!!

I think we're halfway through revelations right now... I hear the gnashing of teeth in the distance, and I got cats and dogs lying down with each other, as I type...


----------

