# Comfrey:



## dogo (Dec 3, 2005)

I would like to know if there are more than one type of Comfrey ? Thanking all of you for being so helpful in the past.


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## Woodpecker (Mar 8, 2007)

Yes I have two types that I know of Russian Comfrey and Blocking 14 Comfrey.


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## Danaus29 (Sep 12, 2005)

Wikipedia says there are 3 types
_Symphytum_ Ã&#8201;_uplandicum_ or Russian comfrey; _Symphytum officinale_ (common comfrey) and _Symphytum asperum_ (rough comfrey)
The Russian is a hybrid of the common and the rough.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comfrey


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## ChristieAcres (Apr 11, 2009)

*Common Comfrey *(Symphytum Officinale), produces seeds, is easily spread, and considered noxious (avoid this one!).

*Prickly Comfrey *(Symphytum Asperum), also produces seeds, is easily spread, and considered noxious (avoid this one)

*Russian Bocking Cultivars* (known as Symphytum Uplandica by most Herbalists): The Bocking Cultivars were developed to be sterile (don't set seed), primarily for both critter and people food. The latter was rejected as an option due to PA's, which decrease in the leaves during the season. 

- Bocking 1
- Bocking 2
- Bocking 3
- Bocking 4
- Bocking 5
- Bocking 6
- Bocking 7
- Bocking 8
- Bocking 9
- Bocking 10
- Bocking 11
- Bocking 12
- Bocking 13
*- Bocking 14 - Was the winner on all fronts as the best Bocking choice!*
- Bocking 15
- Bocking 17
- Bocking 18
- Bocking 19
- Bocking 20
- Bocking 21

The best resource I have found is, *"Comfrey, Past, Present, and Future,"* by Lawrence D Hills.

Comfrey has many uses and I grow only Bocking 14! I use it for mulch in our garden & orhard, in my compost piles, to make fertilizer with, to feed to my critters, for medicinal uses, and I drink Comfrey Tea (not recommended, but I am obviously still alive).


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## pamda (Oct 14, 2004)

SO, where is the best place to by plants for my garden? I am looking for things I can feed the hens and us of course.


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## ChristieAcres (Apr 11, 2009)

I sell Bocking14 plants and sprouted rooties, currently out, but will have more in two weeks. They are listed in the Barter Forum.

Be careful buying Comfrey as the type isn't always labeled and most nurseries have no idea there is a difference between the types. Just make sure you get Bocking14!


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## K.B. (Sep 7, 2012)

Do you know if common comfrey requires cross pollination to set seed? I purchased a comfrey plant from Rolling River nursery a couple years ago and have expanded it out to quite a few plants. It has flowered, but not set seed. The nursery site states that it is common comfrey, but I am wondering if that it really the case...


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## ChristieAcres (Apr 11, 2009)

Comfrey self-pollinates if it is "Common Comfrey." I doubt it is, as it would have been setting seed and they would have popped up all over your property (seeds blowin' in the wind). That is why Common Comfrey is to be avoided, will end up all over the property and the neighboring properties, too. There is no way of telling which Comfrey you have without getting it ID'd.


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## K.B. (Sep 7, 2012)

Thank you. I will try to intentionally pollinate some of the flowers this year and see if I can encourage it to set seed - just to see if i have anything to worry about. Otherwise, I will be cutting the flower stalks back to encourage more leaf growth.


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## Rick (May 10, 2002)

Lori

How can I ID my Russian comfrey to see if it is bocking 14 or not?

Thanks


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## ChristieAcres (Apr 11, 2009)

Rick said:


> Lori
> 
> How can I ID my Russian comfrey to see if it is bocking 14 or not?
> 
> Thanks


I'd check with your local extension office and inquire how best to get your variety ID'd. Possibly also through your State University. Most nurseries surprisingly have very little information on Comfrey. A local one confirmed they didn't sell the plants but had Comfrey seeds available. I inquired which type of Comfrey, fully knowing what type, and was incorrectly told it was another type which is STERILE :stars:


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## CesumPec (May 20, 2011)

lorichristie said:


> Comfrey has many uses and I grow only Bocking 14! I use it for mulch in our garden & orhard, in my compost piles, to make fertilizer with, to feed to my critters, for medicinal uses, and I drink Comfrey Tea (not recommended, but I am obviously still alive).


I'm putting in an orchard. In addition to putting in tons of composted sludge/acre, I'm broadcasting hairy vetch this week to continue the process of converting the sand to soil. This thread got me to reading and I'm thinking that Bocking 4 or 14 maybe a good addition under the fruit trees. In a few years when I'm sure the fruit trees can take it, I plan to turn pigs into the orchard to drop manure while eating ground cover and fruit drops. 

Will the comfrey have any issues being out competed by the hairy vetch?

Since comfrey roots seem to be such prolific producers, is it fair to assume that pigs won't kill off the comfrey if they have limited time in the orchard? 

I've read that comfrey has irritating "hairs". I wear shorts 10 months a year. Is confrey a problem walking amongst it? Is it like stinging nettles? 

And one source said that B4 was a better fodder than B14. Other sources say B14 is better under all circumstances. But I haven't been able to find anything as to why. Can you shed any light on this? 

Many thx for your assistance


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## ChristieAcres (Apr 11, 2009)

CesumPec said:


> I'm putting in an orchard. In addition to putting in tons of composted sludge/acre, I'm broadcasting hairy vetch this week to continue the process of converting the sand to soil. This thread got me to reading and I'm thinking that Bocking 4 or 14 maybe a good addition under the fruit trees. In a few years when I'm sure the fruit trees can take it, I plan to turn pigs into the orchard to drop manure while eating ground cover and fruit drops.
> 
> Will the comfrey have any issues being out competed by the hairy vetch?
> 
> ...


Your welcome!


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## CesumPec (May 20, 2011)

Thanks, very helpful. I'll be ordering some just as soon as I get my well turned on. I am curious about your experience with pigs in the orchard. I am looking at getting GOS, "Orchard pigs," and thought a few weeks at a time in the orchard would be a positive for pigs and fruit trees. What kind of swine did you have and how long did you leave them in the orchard?


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## ChristieAcres (Apr 11, 2009)

We had feeder pigs and due to circumstances, six months. Now, this was Fall into Winter due to an issue with getting them slaughtered (butcher shops were too busy). Yes, a few weeks at a time would be beneficial, however, they can still harm your trees if you don't protect them. If they are recommended for orchards, great, but keep in mind the soil compaction which will result. If that is no problem, sounds fine. The best experiences other have had were pigs let into the orchard to clean up all the fallen fruit. Any branches they can reach? Bye bye to the leaves, developing fruit, and they do eat branches.

Myself? I won't have pigs in my orchard again. Of course, once it is converted to Permaculture, they couldn't be allowed in there.


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## CesumPec (May 20, 2011)

OK, thanks for the input. very helpful. I hope to order that comfrey in a few months at most.


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## parrotman (Jan 27, 2008)

Very informative post...if I can jump in...I have a question.

What is the ideal light level for comfrey? Can I plant it in a woodland area or how much sun does it like/tolerate?

Thanks!


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## Rick (May 10, 2002)

parrotman said:


> Very informative post...if I can jump in...I have a question.
> 
> What is the ideal light level for comfrey? Can I plant it in a woodland area or how much sun does it like/tolerate?
> 
> Thanks!


Comfrey thrives in brutal summer sun, yet our most persistent stand is only getting sun from sunup for a few hours, am and then a peek for two hours before sundown. It has been dug up for root cuttings at least 3 times, and we did not plant it there.either.


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## ChristieAcres (Apr 11, 2009)

parrotman said:


> Very informative post...if I can jump in...I have a question.
> 
> What is the ideal light level for comfrey? Can I plant it in a woodland area or how much sun does it like/tolerate?
> 
> Thanks!


I have grown Comfrey in only morning sun, all day sun, afternoon sun only, and filtered sunlight (under grapevines & kiwi vines). You get the largest leaves in filtered sunlight, the tallest growth in all day sun, and the rest are varying degrees. For the best results, all day sun will get you the most amount of plant material. If you are after the leaves, filtered sunlight.


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## parrotman (Jan 27, 2008)

Thank you for the answers. I sent for 20 roots so I will try a few in various locations and see how they do. 
I plan on using it for my chickens and goats.


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## ChristieAcres (Apr 11, 2009)

Did you order Bocking14? That is the kind most recommended for all critters. The other varieties are rejected by different ones.


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## parrotman (Jan 27, 2008)

It's the common Comfrey. By rejected, do you mean that it's hit or miss with critters liking/eating it?

I found it on E-bay. I did it as a last resort as it was difficult finding it locally, no, actually impossible, and the garden sites were rather expensive for very small amounts.
I also wanted the kind that would spread naturally. Space is not an issue here. If it goes crazy, that's perfectly fine.

I guess time will tell...

On another note, try finding Ramps! Now that's an expensive plant and NOBODY wants to part with them if you do find someone who has them! I found a nursery locally that just started carrying them this year and they are $5 for one, single stem.


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## ChristieAcres (Apr 11, 2009)

I have sold sprouted Comfrey Bocking14 Roots 6/$12, starting more over the next several days. That is a reasonable price.

The Bocking varieties were developed to make Comfrey more palatable for critters, purposely sterile to insure they weren't invasive. Common Comfrey sets seed and is very invasive (seeds...). Also, since their roots extend up to 9 ft or beyond, they aren't easy to dig up.

Sorry, DH ran over my Ramps with the mower, so no extra.


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## parrotman (Jan 27, 2008)

Thanks for the offer of the Bocking14 roots, but I'm going to give the common a try first.
As I mentioned, spreading far and wide here is not an issue. I could literally have an acre of it and it wouldn't impact my land.
I've read so many conflicting stories about the common comfrey and the other strains developed, which I have to assume, came from the common version.
Some rave about it with livestock and poultry and others have very little good to say.
I guess I'll take my chances at this point and start with the common.

I have to laugh at your story about your husband mowing your ramps. Seems everyone I mention it to has it, but none is available. My absolute favorite was someone who e-mailed me and said they couldn't bear their ramps going into transplant shock and that is why I couldn't have any of theirs!

Thanks for everything.


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## ChristieAcres (Apr 11, 2009)

I only mentioned the price I sell Bocking14 roots & plants for as I wondered if you thought the price was too high (I have sold them on HT for the last 3 years or so). There won't be more for a few weeks.

Too bad about the Ramps, but I will let you know if I can find some locally. Mine didn't come back up after DH mowed them down (?!). So, I need more too!


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## parrotman (Jan 27, 2008)

I wasn't referring to your comfrey prices being too high. I didn't even know you sold them. I was talking about when I went on line to independent gardening sites and viewed what they were offering for the price. 6/$12 is a great price!
If I don't have luck with the common comfrey as far as my animals liking it, I can assure you I will be trying the Bocking14.


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## K.B. (Sep 7, 2012)

Came across this site while looking for info on feeding comfrey leaves to fish:
http://www.coescomfrey.com/Coes_Comfrey___How_to_Use.html

It has quite a bit of content related to feeding comfrey to different livestock (quantities/day, etc...). One thing I thought was interesting was that the site mentions the preference of animals towards the Bocking#4 (which they happen to sell) vs the Bocking#14 strain.

Not sure how reputable/credible the info on the site is, but I was glad to see that others have used comfrey leaves for fish food. I'll be giving it a try.


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## ChristieAcres (Apr 11, 2009)

K.B. said:


> Came across this site while looking for info on feeding comfrey leaves to fish:
> http://www.coescomfrey.com/Coes_Comfrey___How_to_Use.html
> 
> It has quite a bit of content related to feeding comfrey to different livestock (quantities/day, etc...). One thing I thought was interesting was that the site mentions the preference of animals towards the Bocking#4 (which they happen to sell) vs the Bocking#14 strain.
> ...


*"Comfrey Past, Present and Future,"* by Lawrence D. Hills. This is basically THE reference for Comfrey, lots of misinformation out there. This book is the results of many years of research and testing. I highly recommend this book. It was after reading this book and also doing a lot of research, but still recommend others research it for themselves. Bocking14 was the most highly recommended for both livestock and also gardening uses, according to Hills. Bocking4 is mentioned for use primarily for livestock, but recommended to be wilted first. It is misinformation that chicken and rabbits won't eat Bocking14, as mine did. 

I have fed *fresh* Comfrey Bocking14 to my chickens, pigs, and rabbits at rates not exceeding 20% of their diets (all healthy). Funny that my rabbits & chicken ate the Bocking14... I have been told by some folks who bought Bocking14 from me, their chickens ate their Comfrey to the ground. I had put a bunch of Comfrey around our fruit trees for mulch, just before we had gone camping. The pigs hadn't been interested when I had initially offered it to them. When we returned from camping, the Comfrey mulch had been eaten completely, no sign of any left. So, I cut some stalks of Comfrey and offered it to our pigs fresh and they all ate it very quickly. From then on, I fed it to them almost every day until they were slaughtered.


This variety's roots can extend up to 8 feet in depth and are very drought resistant when just a few years old (in my climate, I don't have to water them year two, but it rains more frequently here, just not that much in summer). The Allantoin level is higher in Bocking14 (healing quality is rated by Allantoin level). Bocking14 leaves are 0.44% Allantoin, while Bocking is 0.34% Allantoin (internal healing of livestock? Bocking14 wins). Bocking14 = 7.09% Potash (Potassium) while Bocking4 is just 5.04% Potash (Bocking14 wins again). There are a number of comparisons of nutrition, in some Bocking4 does win. Bocking14 is rust resistant while Bocking4 is not. Bocking14 develops deep roots, but Bocking4 is deeper, yet no stated numbers are given (like one grows 6 feet and the other 8...nothing like that have I found). I have dug up plants exceeding 5 feet in depth (Bocking14). I wouldn't call that shallow rooted. Also, have read Bocking4 has thinner stalks, more sensitive to breaking than Bocking14. Bocking14 produces higher than Bocking4. There are varying claims about PA levels. Rule of thumb seems to make the most sense. The first leaves in early Spring reportedly have higher PA levels and that drops as the growing season progresses. Also, the older leaves have the least PA's. Bocking14 is easier to contain than Bocking4. Although there are statements confirming Bocking4 is higher in protein, no figures are given for a comparison (?), at least none I have found. Bocking14 is superior for use as compost, making into fertilizer, and for mulch. All aforementioned is info from either Lawrence D Hill's book or reputable online connected sources (my own critter results).


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## K.B. (Sep 7, 2012)

Thank you for the info. I had seen your recommendation of the Bocking #14 strain on here before, that's why I thought it was curious to see the virtues of the Bocking #4 being recommended by the site that I linked above. They even list the book by Hills in their reference section...



lorichristie said:


> *"Comfrey Past, Present and Future,"* by Lawrence D. Hills. This is basically THE reference for Comfrey, lots of misinformation out there.


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## ChristieAcres (Apr 11, 2009)

I think it is wise for folks to do their own research to confirm for themselves, so I have posted this book info a number of times. However, that said, I also have five years of experience growing Bocking14, using it for critter feed, and many other uses. I chose this type for its benefits over the other types. I don't have Comfrey plants anywhere I didn't plant them, either.


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## YamahaRick (Dec 22, 2012)

Lori, thanks for your insight on this topic. Much appreciated!


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## ChristieAcres (Apr 11, 2009)

YamahaRick said:


> Lori, thanks for your insight on this topic. Much appreciated!


Your welcome :thumb:


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## Freya (Dec 3, 2005)

Followed you over here from the composting thread. 


*Is/Has anyone grown it in a high or low desert (zone 8/9) climate?* :nerd:


I am going to order that book you mentioned and now off to read that website link. Thanks!


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## ChristieAcres (Apr 11, 2009)

I hope you get feedback and you enjoy that informative book, too!


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## Gaea Star (Sep 7, 2011)

I am interested in learning more about what you have done with your comfrey. I may eventually be interested in some of your cuttings also. Just don't know as much about it as I would like.


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## ChristieAcres (Apr 11, 2009)

So far, Comfrey Oil, Salves, Poultices, Compost Igniter, Mulch, Fertilizer, feed for pigs/chickens/rabbits, and I also drink Comfrey Tea (don't recommend that to others due to USDA warnings against consuming Comfrey)


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## mamagoose (Nov 28, 2003)

Great info. I must have the non-invasive kind, since I put one plant in very poor ground (clay/rock fill over a gas line) a decade ago from a friend --who couldn't believe I didn't have any, and it has never shown up anywhere else. I didn't know that goats and chickens ate it until last summer and I only have less than 10 sq. ft. Can I divide it with a shovel, or do I have to root cuttings to propagate it?


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## ChristieAcres (Apr 11, 2009)

Root cuttings, but be careful as the best way to get it to spread is to till around the Comfrey plants. Proper space between the Comfrey plants insures for healthier more productive plants.


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## K.B. (Sep 7, 2012)

Root cuttings are probably the easiest way to propagate comfrey, but the crown can be divided up as well. It is a bit tougher, but a sharp shovel or a stout knife can work well. The crown divisions grow in to a larger plant faster, in my experience. 

Last year I had some leaf stems root that I wilted first and tucked under some mulch. I am curious to try fresh leaf stem cuttings this year as a way to propagate more plants.


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## ChristieAcres (Apr 11, 2009)

You are correct about the crown, however, unless the intent is to dig up the whole plant to do that and also break off a lot of roots in the process, I wouldn't advise it. Comfrey plants need space between them to be healthy. Plants popping up wherever this is a broken off root isn't good as there won't be enough space. I am just posting this for others to forewarn them.


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## Guest (Apr 9, 2014)

I want to buy the Comfrey blocking 14....however,Im reading that chickens wont eat it because its to bitter? I want it for both medicinal and chicken feed.

Asparagusgardener.com is where I got the info and the place I was going to buy it from..

I need to buy this asap and have no idea where else to buy it..


Thanks.


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## Guest (Apr 9, 2014)

Bumping..


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## clothAnnie (May 6, 2011)

Hmmm. Didn't know there were so many types of comfrey! Someone in town offered some comfrey plants. I took her up on it and excitedly planted them in a raised bed. But maybe they're the "common" variety as she had two to give away. More to look up lol. Always more to look up...


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## ChristieAcres (Apr 11, 2009)

bumping this thread for another HTer


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## TRellis (Sep 16, 2013)

Here is another online source for Comfrey...

http://www.nantahala-farm.com/

I have not yet ordered from them, but more than likely will in the future.

And their prices seem to be better than AsparagusGardener.

TRellis


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## ChristieAcres (Apr 11, 2009)

TRellis said:


> Here is another online source for Comfrey...
> 
> http://www.nantahala-farm.com/
> 
> ...


 They are charging *$5 per Comfrey Root for Bocking varieties!* Some have opted to plant *True Comfrey* which is noxious due to how easily it spreads. That isn't good, unless you are on many acres... Folks get in hot water with their neighbors when True Comfrey spreads onto their properties. I recommend Bocking varieties, due to the fact they are bunching, and will not spread, unless you dig them up, or break their roots. That can cause them to spread. Also, never till around them.

Folks, right now, I am not selling Comfrey Roots due to my impending move, but I highly encourage you to purchase your Comfrey Roots from HTers right on this board! You will get a great deal and be supporting other member's pursuits.


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## TRellis (Sep 16, 2013)

That was the wrong website. I just remembered that the farm was in Nantahala and typed that into Google and went to the first site that came up. Wrong!!! :smack 

Who knew that there would be two Comfrey source locations so close to each other. (And I did notice that the website appeared different from what I remembered, but I just went with it).

Here is the other website that I was *really *talking about...

http://www.coescomfrey.com/order.html

This pricing seems to be better than what I paid when I ordered from AsparagusGardener. Andy, the ?owner? of AsparagusGardener, with whom I have traded many an email and had many telephone conversations, might think me a turncoat, but such is life.

Lorichristie,

I was just providing another member with a source when they seemed desperate for comfrey. Nothing against you. In fact, now that I know that you offer Comfrey I will probably order my next batch from you. Just drop me a line when you are able to fill orders.

TRellis


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## ChristieAcres (Apr 11, 2009)

TRellis said:


> That was the wrong website. I just remembered that the farm was in Nantahala and typed that into Google and went to the first site that came up. Wrong!!! :smack
> 
> Who knew that there would be two Comfrey source locations so close to each other. (And I did notice that the website appeared different from what I remembered, but I just went with it).
> 
> ...


 No worries, TRellis, I was concerned about some HTer's paying wayyyy too much for Roots. The prices are much more reasonable on the site link you just provided.

The link you provided was for Bocking 4. There are some HTer's who like to grow this variety, as it meets their needs. I only grow and sell Bocking 14, and I have explained why on this thread.

I may offer Comfrey in the Fall of this year, but not sooner, as my schedule is going to be packed (taking on two jobs within a month, so I can contribute enough income to pay for our log home costs...even though most of the logs are coming off our property, there is a lot more to pay for, including permits, etc...).

Tomorrow afternoon, after shrimping, I will be harvesting my Comfrey leaves as they plants are already huge! Almost all the Comfrey will be used for mulching the fruit trees we have moved to our new property.


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## K.B. (Sep 7, 2012)

Despite the strange weather this winter, my comfrey plants have come on stronger than ever. I did my first chop and drop of the season through the orchard yesterday. I need to keep dividing my plants too... I think I can use 100 more!

My suggestion to others is to just order one plant of whichever type is your preference... keep dividing it from the crown and roots and you'll soon have plenty!


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## Kristinemomof3 (Sep 17, 2012)

I have a question, I am just learning about comfrey as a fertilizer. I have some that came from a friend, I am pretty sure it flowers, but am not 100% sure. Am I better of just using what I have or getting bocking 14. What I have is better than nothing? I know it does not spread that quickly. I'll watch closer for flowers this year.


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## K.B. (Sep 7, 2012)

I believe all types of comfrey send up flowers, but only some types will set viable seed.

All comfrey types are good for fertilizer (dynamic accumulators of nutrients).


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## ChristieAcres (Apr 11, 2009)

Kristinemomof3 said:


> I have a question, I am just learning about comfrey as a fertilizer. I have some that came from a friend, I am pretty sure it flowers, but am not 100% sure. Am I better of just using what I have or getting bocking 14. What I have is better than nothing? I know it does not spread that quickly. I'll watch closer for flowers this year.


 If your use is fertilizer, no need to buy another type. All Comfrey blooms, but only ONE sets viable seed (Heirloom Comfrey). That is the type that is invasive and not recommended. All the Comfrey Cultivars are sterile and they are a bunching plant. If you want to keep Comfrey contained, do not dig up the roots, split it, or till around it.


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## Big Dave (Feb 5, 2006)

Well I have bought some plants from some of yall on this site. The last ones I got took. Now I am wondering since I read do not plant this. What I have gotten? We wanted it for medicinal and feed purposes..


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## Kristinemomof3 (Sep 17, 2012)

lorichristie said:


> If your use is fertilizer, no need to buy another type. All Comfrey blooms, but only ONE sets viable seed (Heirloom Comfrey). That is the type that is invasive and not recommended. All the Comfrey Cultivars are sterile and they are a bunching plant. If you want to keep Comfrey contained, do not dig up the roots, split it, or till around it.


Thanks, I don't think what I have is invasive, it has not spread at all.


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## K.B. (Sep 7, 2012)

lorichristie said:


> If your use is fertilizer, no need to buy another type. All Comfrey blooms, but only ONE sets viable seed (Heirloom Comfrey). That is the type that is invasive and not recommended. All the Comfrey Cultivars are sterile and they are a bunching plant. If you want to keep Comfrey contained, do not dig up the roots, split it, or till around it.


you think only one type of comfrey sets viable seed?? Look to the botanical history of the russian comfrey cultivars that you prefer


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## ChristieAcres (Apr 11, 2009)

lorichristie said:


> *Common Comfrey *(Symphytum Officinale), produces seeds, is easily spread, and considered noxious (avoid this one!).
> 
> *Prickly Comfrey *(Symphytum Asperum), also produces seeds, is easily spread, and considered noxious (avoid this one)
> 
> ...


 Reposted for an HTer's who missed this. There is a lot of misinformation floating around about Comfrey...


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## ChristieAcres (Apr 11, 2009)

K.B. said:


> you think only one type of comfrey sets viable seed?? Look to the botanical history of the russian comfrey cultivars that you prefer


 By all means, post the names of the Russian Comfrey Cultivars which set viable seed as this would be helpful to correct the information.

I just posted information from a known resource on Comfrey. I have grown Bocking14 and Bocking4; neither set seed. Of those two, I prefer Bocking14.

Now, if the resources are wrong, I am still not recommending the wrong type. Bocking14 is sterile and doesn't set seed.


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## ChristieAcres (Apr 11, 2009)

Here is a well researched Wikipedia article on Comfrey Bocking14:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comfrey


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## K.B. (Sep 7, 2012)

As I understand it, "russian comfrey" is a hybrid of two wild type species of comfrey - both of which set viable seed. The "russian" hybrids are sterile.

There are many different species and subtypes of comfrey. "Heirloom comfrey" is not a very accurate term.



lorichristie said:


> By all means, post the names of the Russian Comfrey Cultivars which set viable seed as this would be helpful to correct the information.
> 
> I just posted information from a known resource on Comfrey. I have grown Bocking14 and Bocking4; neither set seed. Of those two, I prefer Bocking14.
> 
> Now, if the resources are wrong, I am still not recommending the wrong type. Bocking14 is sterile and doesn't set seed.


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## ChristieAcres (Apr 11, 2009)

K.B. said:


> As I understand it, "russian comfrey" is a hybrid of two wild type species of comfrey - both of which set viable seed. The "russian" hybrids are sterile.
> 
> There are many different species and subtypes of comfrey. "Heirloom comfrey" is not a very accurate term.


We are discussing one Comfrey species, two Heirloom Comfrey types, and many resulting Cultivars (Hybrids). Feel free to jump in and post whatever you like to contribute to this thread as everyone would find additional information interesting. I have Ornamental Comfrey, but it is simply that, not something I use for any other purpose.

I stand corrected, that I should probably call Heirloom Comfrey (there are *two types of Heirloom Comfrey*) by the type I am referring to, which would be either *Common Comfrey or Prickly Comfrey*. *Common Comfrey* is widely known, and referred accurately as *Heirloom Comfrey*. An Heirloom is a plant that sets viable seed or can be propagated and produce true (both Common and Prickly Comfrey varieties do).

I have already accurately posted this:

*Common Comfrey *(Symphytum Officinale), produces seeds, is easily spread, and considered noxious (avoid this one!).

*Prickly Comfrey *(Symphytum Asperum), also produces seeds, is easily spread, and considered noxious (avoid this one)

*Russian Bocking Cultivars* (known as Symphytum Uplandica by most Herbalists): The Bocking Cultivars were developed to be sterile (don't set seed), primarily for both critter and people food. The latter was rejected as an option due to PA's, which decrease in the leaves during the season.

I also posted all the known Comfrey Cultivars, since I have never seen the list anywhere, so I had to compile it myself using accurate sources. The post with all the Cultivars listed...that was not a cut & paste.


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## K.B. (Sep 7, 2012)

As I mentioned, there are many different species of comfrey. Comfrey is a common name applied to different species and subtypes (cultivars).

Here is a link to page that has a list of some of the different species of comfrey (all in the genus Symphytum). There are quite a few other true species in the genus. Almost any true species of plant will set viable seed. The russian (Bocking) varieties are all sterile hybrids, to my knowledge.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Symphytum

Once again, the term "heirloom" is not a very accurate term. It is best to use the genus/species names, as you did in the post above for S officinale and S. asperum. The term heirloom is typically used to refer to open-pollinated plant varieties that have been saved/maintained for many years and have a historical characterization of some sort.


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## ChristieAcres (Apr 11, 2009)

K.B. said:


> As I mentioned, there are many different species of comfrey. Comfrey is a common name applied to different species and subtypes (cultivars).
> 
> Here is a link to page that has a list of some of the different species of comfrey (all in the genus Symphytum). There are quite a few other true species in the genus. Almost any true species of plant will set viable seed. The russian (Bocking) varieties are all sterile hybrids, to my knowledge.
> 
> ...


 Instead of continuing to state there are so many different Comfreys in addition to what I have posted, although those others are not relevant to the uses and the subject of this thread, please name them. I'd love to see the list and so would others, I am sure.

I'd respectfully like to ask you to stop debating the "heirloom" term, especially since it appears there is some confusion on its definition. That confusion is due to Heirloom being attributed to more than just plants cultivated over many years...

This thread is about Comfrey, specifically that began with 2 Heirloom varieties or those *specific varieties* and the Hybrid varieties developed (Cultivars). You can use that term any way you wish, but *Heirloom* is also given to *a plant species or variety that produces seed that is TRUE (i.e. develops into the same plant as that one it came from)*. That fits either Common Comfrey or Prickly Comfrey, as both produces *TRUE SEEDS.* 

Back to the thread...


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## K.B. (Sep 7, 2012)

Hi Christie,

The link in my post you quoted above has the partial list of other types of comfrey. Is there a need to cut and paste from it, rather than just review the information at the link?

I'm not trying (or interested) to debating anything. I was simply posting a correction to inaccurate information that you posted. I was also trying to offer up a suggestion to use more accurate terminology. 

Best I can tell, the subject of the thread is comfrey, not just one specific species or cultivar. You don't seem interested in my comments or corrections, so I will leave you to it. Hopefully others can benefit from the information.


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## ChristieAcres (Apr 11, 2009)

K.B. said:


> Hi Christie,
> 
> The link in my post you quoted above has the partial list of other types of comfrey. Is there a need to cut and paste from it, rather than just review the information at the link?
> 
> ...


 My goal is contributing to this thread, was to offer information that is useful for HTer's, especially for those *gardening, farming, and utilizing natural products & remedies*. The list I have provided was researched by me, was not a cut and paste, and it was substantiated (documented). Yes, there are Ornamental Comfreys, too. Maybe you should start a thread on *Ornamental Comfrey*. It is pretty, but those varieties greatly lack the value of those I listed. I grow one type of Ornamental Comfrey (White) and it is highly invasive...


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## K.B. (Sep 7, 2012)

From the OP for this thread:
"I would like to know if there are more than one type of Comfrey"

I'm curious how the information that I have posted is unsuitable for inclusion here. Your preference, based on your research is for the Russian hybrid varieties of comfrey, specifically the one that you sell. 

I understand your position and appreciate that you are trying to emphasize the value of that particular variety. 

However, I'm not sure why you would think that other types of comfrey (particularly other species of Symphytum) are neither useful or of interest to others. Many of the species of comfrey (and likely other members of the Boraginaceae family) have similar properties in their form and particularly function with respect to their use as fertilizer due to their aggressive root systems.


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## ChristieAcres (Apr 11, 2009)

K.B. said:


> From the OP for this thread:
> "I would like to know if there are more than one type of Comfrey"
> 
> I'm curious how the information that I have posted is unsuitable for inclusion here. Your preference, based on your research is for the Russian hybrid varieties of comfrey, specifically the one that you sell.
> ...


 Please read this resource: *"Comfrey, Past, Present, and Future,"* by Lawrence D Hills

You will gain a great deal of knowledge and then know why I would encourage others to stay away from INVASIVE types of Comfrey, also why Ornamental types of Comfrey aren't recommended for the same uses as the types I listed (read about them all in *"Comfrey, Past, Present, and Future,"* by Lawrence D Hills).

I have asked you several times to just list the types you want to share about, but it would be wise to include accurate information. That link you posted (a poor Wikipedia one), just listed a few types, some were duplicates, and of them, a few don't grow in the US. Otherwise, some would be interested in Ornamental Comfrey types, as they are pretty, but INVASIVE. That is very critical to those owning smaller properties, in close proximity to neighboring properties, etc... I don't know of many who want INVASIVE types of plants, when they can choose those that are not. Common Comfrey is far preferable over any other invasive type, due to its properties. Bocking4 and Bocking14 each offer their own individual properties, but Bocking14 is highly recommended by all resources (not just me). It all leads back to the work of Lawrence D Hills. Why were the hybrid Cultivars developed? Besides the fact they are sterile...? All the answers are in *Comfrey, Past, Present, and Future. *

I have no thread in the Barter Forum and not trying to sell Comfrey right now, may offer it again in the Fall, but am not trying to market myself. Here is an analogy...

So, I am choosing which apple tree to buy. I can choose an apple tree that simply produces apples, not caring about the quality, how many are produced, or what I can use those apples for... Or I can research carefully to determine which is the best type of apple tree to buy. This could be the difference between planting a Yellow Transparent or a King Apple. The YT produces apples that are best picked before they ripen fully, are best as a cooking type apple, made into primarily applesauce or pies. They are an early apple and that is the main benefit, besides being a good pollinator. The resulting YT apple isn't a great eating apple, but it is an apple. Meanwhile, the King apple is large, packed with juice, and very flavorful. They are excellent as an eating apple, make fantastic cider, and also make delicious applesauce, pies, etc... 

When we recently moved (11) of our fruit trees from our last property to our new one? DH cut down the Yellow Transparent tree, so Larry could get his backhoe to our King Apple. We moved only the fruit trees that did well in our climate, were disease/pest resistant, and also more consistent bearers with the best apples... 

I am going to move some of my Ornamental Comfrey as it is pretty. I use it for NOTHING except groundcover. We have some areas it can go wild in here, so I will bring some.


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## K.B. (Sep 7, 2012)

I am familiar with Lawrence D Hills work and development of hybrid comfrey and Bocking cultivars. There is an extensive amount of research done around the development, which is great. I also understand the bias inherent in those who develop and/or sell products. It is all well and good, but the context is important to understand.

I am not advocating any particular comfrey for all purposes. I am a believer in diversity within systems. It is one of the ways I practice permaculture. 

The initial start of this disagreement was in response to your post that only one type of comfrey set seeds. That statement was incorrect. I thought it was worthwhile to note that there are quite a few other species of comfrey that set seeds. The link that I provided is worth what all wikipedia links are worth, a starting point. If someone wants to research:
Symphytum bulbosum &#8211; Bulbous Comfrey
Symphytum caucasicum &#8211; Caucasian Comfrey
Symphytum ibericum &#8211; Creeping Comfrey
Symphytum orientale &#8211; White Comfrey
Symphytum tuberosum &#8211; Tuberous Comfrey

they can punch in the scientific name and get a great deal of further info to learn along with the ones you have listed in your posts. The above species are not hybrids and should produce viable seed for propagation. Which is of interest to some growers.

As to the point that some originate outside the US, I'm not sure why that matters. Your own example of growing White comfrey illustrates the availability of plants outside their native regions...

With regard to the invasive properties of a particular plant, the vigor and spread of all plants is specific to the growing locations. Plants that are invasive in one region may not be in another. Autumn olives are one example of this. They can be very aggressive in the eastern part of the US, but are not so in the western part of the country.

Again, I am not advocating a "better" or "best" variety of comfrey, just the awareness that there are many to choose from.


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## ChristieAcres (Apr 11, 2009)

K.B., were you aware you posted varieties that *are poisonous*? I really don't think they should be on this same list, nor do I think I would be encouraging others to get these varieties without warning them. I don't think you read *"Comfrey, Past, Present, and Future,"* by Lawrence D Hills. Nor do I believe you looked up those varieties you posted or you would know they are poisonous, some mildly, some more so. None are to be used in most uses the other Bocking's (14 and 4) are used for. I wouldn't even use them for compost! 

Yes, I also do Permaculture and wouldn't grow any* invasive poisonous plant species* in with my other varieties. In addition, I choose to plant varieties that don't overtake others, and spread little, if any.

The ornamental Comfrey I planted, did spread wildly, and was very invasive. That particular one didn't produce seeds. That is the only reason I would even bother to plant it at our new property. I have some areas where it will stop in its tracks or DROWN! I happen to think it is pretty. That is the only reason I will plant it. It would be the wrong choice to plant if one doesn't have a barrier to stop it from spreading. 

Meanwhile, I have Bocking14 around my fruit trees, with other plants happily growing in between them, and since they are a bunching, not running type, they stay put. Since they are sterile, all other carefully chosen plant varieties can flourish without getting choked out. I choose Alpine Strawberries for much the same reason. They are a bunching strawberry, don't put out runners, but they do produce seeds. Conditions have to be just right for germination. Easy to move the babies, unlike plants that set down roots quickly and deeply.

The Comfrey seed in highest demand is Common Comfrey. The PA's have been recorded to be higher in this variety than Bocking14 and Bocking4. PA's stands for *Pyrrolizidine Alkaloids* 

Back to the thread now...

When do the leaves contain the highest level of *Pyrrolizidine Alkaloids? *The emerging leaves of Spring. After you cut first growth, the secondary growth has a lower level of PA's, and so on. By late Fall, the level is very low. When do the roots contain the highest level of *Pyrrolizidine Alkaloids? *Late Fall, the opposite of the leaves. For folks endeavoring to keep their PA's as low as possible for the uses they have for Comfrey, this is important knowledge to have.


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## K.B. (Sep 7, 2012)

Hi Christie,

I am not interested in participating in personal attacks, and it feels like that is where this is going. Back down from your aggressive responses on what you think that I have or have not done. 

I do grow poisonous plants in my permaculture areas. To my knowledge, all comfrey species and subtypes are generally considered poisonous. Many plants that have been used historically for medicinal and other purposes are considered poisonous.

Unless someone is growing plants only for use as food, one small part of permaculture, I suspect most practicioners of permaculture have plants growing that are poisonous. What is the cause for alarm?

I hope that all people reading about and trying new plants in their plots do their own research and make their own decisions regarding the safety and uses of those plants.

Once again, if you read my posts above, I have stated that I am not advocating or encouraging any particular comfrey to others, only the knowledge that other species and options are out there.


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## ChristieAcres (Apr 11, 2009)

To any reading this thread, PLEASE do not order or purchase any of the Ornamental Comfrey varieties without researching them. There is very little information available about them, except they are poisonous and dangerous to be used a number of the ways Bocking14 and Bocking4 are. They are NOT to be used the same ways as Common Comfrey and the Bocking varieties. Also, they are not to be fed to your critters. Common Comfrey isn't recommended due to the higher *Pyrrolizidine Alkaloids. *Herbalists recommend Bocking14 and sometimes Bocking4.

I am reposting this paragraph, which is very important to those who are making Comfrey Oil, Salves, and otherwise using the Comfrey topically. In addition, for those who feed their critters Comfrey. 

When do the leaves contain the highest level of *Pyrrolizidine Alkaloids? *The emerging leaves of Spring. After you cut first growth, the secondary growth has a lower level of PA's, and so on. By late Fall, the level is very low. When do the roots contain the highest level of *Pyrrolizidine Alkaloids? *Late Fall, the opposite of the leaves. For folks endeavoring to keep their PA's as low as possible for the uses they have for Comfrey, this is important knowledge to have.


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## mskrieger (May 1, 2012)

K.B., thanks for posting about the various types of comfrey. Which ones do you grow in your permaculture areas, and why did you pick that type? I am considering growing comfrey--purely for use as a biodynamic accumulator in the orchard, as I do not have grazing livestock.


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## rowan57 (Sep 30, 2009)

I have 4 Bocking 14 plants which are very happy, and I just purchased and planted 24 more root cuttings to have 2 large rows. I want it for composting and feeding / mulching fruit trees so need plenty!


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## ChristieAcres (Apr 11, 2009)

rowan57 said:


> I have 4 Bocking 14 plants which are very happy, and I just purchased and planted 24 more root cuttings to have 2 large rows. I want it for composting and feeding / mulching fruit trees so need plenty!


 Good for you! They sure get big and bushy, don't they?! I am in the process of mulching our fruit trees with Comfrey right now. Tomorrow, I am heading back to our other property to harvest a lot more Comfrey, so I can finish mulching our fruit trees at our new property. I have decided to plant at least 100 Comfrey plants (Bocking14 only), as I use it so much, too!

On the Permaculture subject, I have taken a class, read multiple Permaculture books, and been doing Permaculture for four years now, steadily increasing my Permaculture areas. We just bought a new property and I am starting over. Locally, I have consulted in Permaculture for two years and 5 years in different types of Gardening Design. I also taught classes in Gardening these past two years. Those certified in Permaculture, who I know personally, do not recommend growing Ornamental, Common, or Prickly Comfrey varieties. Although I only grew one type of Ornamental Comfrey, I never recommend it for Permaculture use due to its incredibly invasive nature (spreads quite happily, choking out other plants all around it, and seeds blowin' in the wind, if it is a seed producing type). My Ornamental Comfrey isn't a seed producing type. In a few days, I will take a pic and post it. When I got it, I was told it was Ornamental Comfrey, but didn't know the type. I'll try to find out.

Yet *Bocking14 and Bocking4 has been determined to be safe, in limited amounts for livestock feed* (it is not poisonous but toxic to the liver in large amounts, even for animals). Once the level of toxicity is reached, Typically, I have seen the limit of safe consumption recommended to be no more than 10%. Although, it is not recommended for human consumption. This can be confirmed easily. An interesting article for those interested in feeding their livestock Comfrey:

http://nwbotanicals.org/oak/altagri/comfrey.htm

Few would consider Nutmeg poisonous. In fact, in small doses, it is very nutritious, however, in large doses, it isn't. In larger amounts, Nutmeg can go from being toxic, to being deadly poisonous. This is also true for many different types of foods. Too much of a good thing, can be fatal!


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## K.B. (Sep 7, 2012)

mskrieger said:


> K.B., thanks for posting about the various types of comfrey. Which ones do you grow in your permaculture areas, and why did you pick that type? I am considering growing comfrey--purely for use as a biodynamic accumulator in the orchard, as I do not have grazing livestock.


Hi MsKrieger,

I currently just have Symphytum officinale in my orchard and kitchen garden areas. I chose that one initially due to an interest in having propagation from seed as an option and had heard good reports on it's growth in the northern california/southern oregon region. I purchased my initial plant from Rolling River Nursery. It has been very easy to propagate from root cuttings and crown divisions. I am encouraged enough by the success of growth that I am expanding the number of plants and looking to try other varieties.

I allowed some plants to keep their flower stalks last year, but I did not find any viable seed set once the stalks dried back. My plants have come back much more robust this year, so I think they are still "settling" in.

I am interested in adding several other varieties over the next couple of years as I expand my plantings - probably one of the russian hybrid types and a couple of other wild type species to compare how they handle our soil and dry summers.

My current plans are to use the comfrey varieties that I settle on for nutrient accumulation (mulch, standard compost and compost tea), medicine, bee forage and feedstock for critters (fodder plots for wildlife, domestic poultry, rabbits and perhaps fish and vermiculture if those ventures go forward). Each type may be used for different purposes, depending on the plant profile and growth characteristics.


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## ChristieAcres (Apr 11, 2009)

Since we went back to our property today, I snapped a few pics of the Ornamental Comfrey I have grown for over 3 years. This type doesn't produce seeds, is highly invasively, a trailing type that spreads along the ground, setting down roots, and is great for an area where containing it isn't an issue. The uses for this, like the other Ornamentals, is limited. All those uses are fulfilled by the Bockings, in a more superior way, due to their lower PA levels, much bigger plant size, higher leaf production, and wider uses. That all said, I am planting my Ornamental Comfrey at our new property, since I have areas it can spread happily, but will be naturally contained. I'll identify the type of Ornamental tonight, if I have time. I forgot the name of it...

Notice the 2nd page, you can see my hand, which allows size of the leaves to be estimated. Next time I go to our property, I will take some pics of Bocking14, a few leaves with my hand. The size of the leaves are enormous compared to these.

Added later...I remembered Hidcote, so looked it up. My Ornamental Comfrey appears to look like Symphytum Hidcote Blue, however, my variety doesn't produce seeds, not in the 3+ years I have been growing it (?). So, it is another type, most likely. If I can positively identify it, I will. Too bad, I didn't get pics of it in full bloom, very profuse and pretty!


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## TRellis (Sep 16, 2013)

Just bumping this thread so that "ChristieAcres' does not forget that I would like to buy some Comfrey from her this Fall...

TRellis


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## ChristieAcres (Apr 11, 2009)

TRellis said:


> Just bumping this thread so that "ChristieAcres' does not forget that I would like to buy some Comfrey from her this Fall...
> 
> TRellis


Thanks for the reminder...I was just about to start Comfrey plants again for our new property, in addition to digging up, and moving some larger ones. Great timing!

Not to beat a dead horse, but a reminder on varieties. Please seriously consider growing invasive species of any plant, especially varieties that are not considered fodder (if you have hungry critters). Also, those interested in Permaculture, do your own homework, but I can only pass on that no invasive species are recommended by Certified Permaculturists.


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