# Looks like Katla is Blowing



## soulsurvivor (Jul 4, 2004)

This is the big volcano in Iceland that no one wants to see erupt, but if I'm seeing this properly, it looks to me like it's doing just that:

http://www.ruv.is/katla


----------



## MELOC (Sep 26, 2005)

do you have a link to an english site?


----------



## WanderingOak (Jul 12, 2004)

Ouch!!!!!

Firefox does not like that website at all!!!!!!

It crashes every single time I try to open it.

For some reason, it works fine in Safari...

Anyhow, here is the Google Translate version of the site.

The translation crashes Firefox as well...


----------



## texican (Oct 4, 2003)

Did a quick news search, and it apparently Has NOT blown.

I'm working at home, and came over to HT for a break... saw this post... and immediately grabbed my lists... then thought, hey, I still have at least four days before potential chaos hits... so I checked Googlenews and nothing... nothing on Drudge...

IF Katla does erupt, and get going good, it could mean no summer this year, and ya'll know what that means...

Will keep my Katla radar running the rest of the day, just in case. If it were to go, I'd need to put in a couple tons of feed quickly, and hand over a several page list to the hardware store and request they deliver....

....
edited to add... placed a email news alert out on katla, so every new article will be immediately be forwarded.


----------



## barnyardfun (Mar 26, 2005)

Texican, I don't know anything about Katla (or any others for that matter). Can you explain why it would be so bad?

Sorry, I am just completely ignorant on this. :ashamed:


----------



## TheMartianChick (May 26, 2009)

I'm not Texican but... Every time that the other volcano in Iceland erupted, Katla would follow. Due to the larger quantity of ash and such put out, it causes problems in the weather . Historically , it has caused a summer to just not happen.

For most of us it would mean a major crop failure.

Here is a link:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Year_Without_a_Summer


----------



## Ohio dreamer (Apr 6, 2006)

MELOC said:


> do you have a link to an english site?


Look at the very top of the page ad click on English


----------



## wyld thang (Nov 16, 2005)

dang, no tomatos then. plant extra cabbage.


----------



## Terri (May 10, 2002)

I see nothing on the on-line news. It MIGHT be a hoax?

If it isn't, then, yes plant cabbage and turnips and such!


----------



## COSunflower (Dec 4, 2006)

The ash blocks out the sun for as long as 7 years!!!!! You won't be growing ANYTHING!!!


----------



## Wisconsin Ann (Feb 27, 2007)

Nothing on any of the AP, UPI, etc news wires. Even the folks who are sitting there watching it haven't put up any red flags that it's heating up. (apparently that's the sign that a volcano is going to erupt..the infrared imagery goes nuts)

They did say a day ago, however, that they'll be monitoring it carefully for the next 3 months or longer.

The link you provided is simply saying that they're monitoring it. It's a sort of...webcam to watch, I guess.


----------



## Ernie (Jul 22, 2007)

You can grow some things, but it won't be pretty. This has happened a number of times before and the world didn't turn into a desert wasteland. 

The most recent one was 1816 and it caused pretty big problems even then. We saw massive famines all around the globe but particularly in Europe where there was a war going on the previous year (which had exhausted a lot of food and crop reserves).

We'd be living pretty much at subsistence level for that year and probably a few after that. I'm not sure our modern society could handle it. In 1816, America was primarily an agricultural country with a smaller population and a lot of room to spread out. Today few people know how to do _anything_ agricultural. Remove all of the large scale agricultural processes (grain crops, etc.) and you'd see a serious downward trend on the ol' population as a whole. And all of the accompanying problems that one could expect from a nation full of starving people.


----------



## PrettyPaisley (May 18, 2007)

How in the world will I be able to can 7 years worth of tomatoes? 

Sounds like the earth is going to be doing some serious cleansing.


----------



## Ernie (Jul 22, 2007)

As a footnote, if you're looking for interesting reading on this, try "Eighteen Hundred And Froze to Death" and the various historical accounts from that time period. 

Don't get confused by "Year Without a Summer" which is a fictional piece of homosexual erotica set in the same year. 

I made that mistake and even though I sent that book back, I still haven't managed to get my Amazon "suggested reading" list straightened out. Yeesh.


----------



## secretcreek (Jan 24, 2010)

Here's an ash cloud blip I found on AP World news via Drudgereport.
It doesn't mention a volcano by name but talks about Ireland restricting airspace due to the ash cloud, so???

http://www.lasvegassun.com/news/2010/may/03/irish-authorities-volcanic-ash-may-close-airspace/

-scrt crk


----------



## grief (Jun 7, 2006)

Could the info be from the History Channel, just airing a segment about Katla?
grief
Clickable site was blocked on my computer.


----------



## soulsurvivor (Jul 4, 2004)

Well, this is one of those times I'm going to look like an idiot, but I've been watching all the Iceland volcano webcams since the original Eyjafjallajokull first erupted. I was viewing the Katla webcam early this morning and it was putting on an underground light show. This is the volcano that has the thick icecap and connects with the same underground lava chamber as Eyjafjallajokull, so I didn't get too excited then. But when I again viewed the Katla webcam today, I could see the billowing black mushrooming clouds that were typical when Eyjafjallajokull first began erupting. I watched for about a half hour to make certain I wasn't just seeing something that wasn't there. But I'm positive the clouds were coming up, vertically, from the Katla icecap before I posted here. I kept watching this webcam after posting and could see that this eruption continued, although it was in very slow motion due to the poor satellite transmission through the webcam. I'm positive it was/is erupting, even if there aren't any news services yet saying this. After checking all the Iceland volcano webcams, I can understand why the news services might not be posting because there's an intense heavy ground fog/ash cover that's evident in viewing all the webcams. They wouldn't be able to see an eruption unless they were right on top of it. Here, you can look for yourself. I'm not trying to create panic; just attempting to keep myself informed.

Katla webcam:
http://www.ruv.is/katla
Helka webcam:
http://www.ruv.is/hekla
Eyjafjallajokull/Thorolfsfelli webcam:
http://eldgos.mila.is/eyjafjallajokull-fra-thorolfsfelli/
Eyjafjallajokull/Fimmvorduhalsi webcam:
http://eldgos.mila.is/eyjafjallajokull-fra-fimmvorduhalsi/
Eyjafjallajokull/Valahnjuk webcam:
http://eldgos.mila.is/eyjafjallajokull-fra-valahnjuk/

I have to note that it is night in Iceland about 6:30 pm EST to about 12:30 am EST, but even with that there's still usually enough light interaction to see the outlines of the terrain. The Eyjafjallajokull/Thorolfsfelli webcam is the one that also shows the farms, homes, lights, etc.


----------



## damoc (Jul 14, 2007)

Thanks soulsurvivor id rather a few "possible false alarms" than not get a possible early warning


----------



## Ohio dreamer (Apr 6, 2006)

Thanks Soulsurvivor. I'd rather have you post something and have to scramble through the news website to see what they are saying then no one say anything at all. I personally don't see or read much news during the day (or many evenings)....I spend most of my "extra minutes" here. SO I could miss an event and be hours behind in my "reaction" to it. I do have a short list of "Must do's" if an event such at Katla happens....a heads up could make a difference.


----------



## wyld thang (Nov 16, 2005)

Ernie said:


> As a footnote, if you're looking for interesting reading on this, try "Eighteen Hundred And Froze to Death" and the various historical accounts from that time period.
> 
> Don't get confused by "Year Without a Summer" which is a fictional piece of homosexual erotica set in the same year.
> 
> I made that mistake and even though I sent that book back, I still haven't managed to get my Amazon "suggested reading" list straightened out. Yeesh.


poor Ernie, that is just too funnyound:


----------



## barnyardfun (Mar 26, 2005)

Ohio dreamer said:


> I do have a short list of "Must do's" if an event such at Katla happens....a heads up could make a difference.


If you don't mind my asking.....what would be on a list of must do's in a situation like this?


----------



## Ohio dreamer (Apr 6, 2006)

I'd pull some $ out of savings and order some #10 cans of dried veg. I can and am slowing stock a few dried things but fresh is better priced, so it gets the bulk of the monthly budget. But I'd order some veg to "cover my hinney" just in case the growing season goes down the tubes. (This is the first growing season we have been in the US in 3 years - so we haven't been able to "over can" in the past - so there is very little "stock" of veg)

Order more spinach, kale, cabbage, broccoli, etc seed.

Head out to the local building supply store and get florescent tube lights (grow lights for the basement)

Pick up a few electric heaters or heating pads to keep my basement "grow room" warm, not it's natural condition.

Order 2 loads of wood ASAP, and another a month later (one load was all we needed this past year....but if others are looking ahead, too, the price may go up).

So forth and so on...


----------



## soulsurvivor (Jul 4, 2004)

Thanks for the verbal support damoc and ohio dreamer. I need to add this link as a "go to" for all current updates. Here's the most recent report:

http://en.vedur.is/earthquakes-and-volcanism/articles/nr/1884

I also contacted this office with my observation/time/date of Katla activity.


----------



## Terri (May 10, 2002)

During the eruption of 1816, the Northern USA had freezes in the midsummer. 

Perhaps, if it DOES erupt, people could raise edibles the way the Alaskans do, and the way the high-altitude people do.


----------



## Ernie (Jul 22, 2007)

A good year or two of stockpiled grains wouldn't hurt either. Or at least the cash to go out and buy some pronto should a big eruption actually occur. You might get ahead of the crowd on that just knowing that it has the potential.


----------



## soulsurvivor (Jul 4, 2004)

Even without a major eruption from Katla, I think most in the central US might want to consider adding to their food preps now because of the shipping blocks at the mouth of the Mississippi River due to restrictions being placed on shipping because of the oil slick in the Gulf.


----------



## TheMartianChick (May 26, 2009)

We have been dipping into some of our stockpile in recent weeks since we are trying to pay down some tuition bills. Keeping this topic in mind, I stopped at the local Sav a Lot to pick up a few things to replace some of what we used. I also inventoried the deep freezer to make a list of things that we should get to shore up our supplies. In the event that Katla erupts, I will definitely make a trip to the feed store to get chicken feed and game feed for the quail. I'd probably swing by the hardware store to get some plastic sheeting to try to construct a makeshift greenhouse over one (or more) of our gardens.


----------



## insocal (May 15, 2005)

I would welcome a year without a summer. It can hit 119F here.


----------



## Freeholder (Jun 19, 2004)

And those of us who are already at high altitudes (or in Alaska) might be up a creek without a paddle!

My 'must-do' list would include getting some more hay in, although grass and hay would probably still grow all right, as would some tree crops (depending on how much heat they needed to ripen) and berries. Perennials should produce, too. It's the heat-loving annuals that you'd have the most trouble with, and tree fruits that need heat to ripen. I imagine grains might not ripen, also -- if you were expecting such an event, and normally plant wheat, it might be a good idea to put in a patch of Alaska-adapted barley and oats.

Kathleen


----------



## texican (Oct 4, 2003)

barnyardfun said:


> Texican, I don't know anything about Katla (or any others for that matter). Can you explain why it would be so bad?
> 
> Sorry, I am just completely ignorant on this. :ashamed:


You have your good witches, and your bad witches... oh wait, that's Wizard of Oz... But basically the same thing... good volcanoes and bad ones... depending on their chemistry.

We've all seen pics of the Hawaiian volcanoes, with their lovely lava bubbling and slowly marching down hill. This is a 'good' volcano, from a human standpoint.

Then you have volcano's like Krakatoa, that when they erupt, do so violently, sending square miles of ash into the atmosphere. When Krakatoa (out in the Pacific) erupted in 1883, the volume of ash was so great, that it affected the weather of the planet.

The right kind of volcanic eruptions can 'eliminate' global warming, by blocking out solar radiation, and thus lowering the temps greatly. Think snow in Houston in July. Basically a year without a summer... no growing season... mass starvation.

I seriously doubt there is any magic storehouse with enough food to feed the entire planet for a year. Folks with greenhouses and a way of heating/lighting them would make out like bandits... Average Joe who goes to the market a couple times a week, will starve, along with most everybody else.

Katla, like others have mentioned, usually follows it's sister. Katla might not destroy the northern hemisphere's ecosystem, but it could throw a golden clusterbum into Europe, shutting everything down... which would eventually translate to trouble here in the states.

I placed an email alert on my gmail account, via google, to alert me to every article mentioning Katla... only had two iffy, Katla follows her sister, type articles flashed to me today. The joys of working at home, and on the computer!!!


----------



## TheMartianChick (May 26, 2009)

I would also dip into savings to get 10 cords of wood. Our house doesn't have as much insulation as it should have and we do use a fireplace insert to supplement the furnaces. We still have about 3 cords leftover from the past winter but I'd want more.

One other thing that I would do is get a few more bales of wood chips for the chickens. I still have enough leftover straw and other means to keep the quail warm for another year or more.


----------



## texican (Oct 4, 2003)

barnyardfun said:


> If you don't mind my asking.....what would be on a list of must do's in a situation like this?


IF it did go bad... I think there'd be a few days before the ash would encircle the globe, and American's started sensing the danger.

I'd cash out my bank accounts, to the maximum amount allowable... preferably in coin.

I'd go to the feedstores, and probably TSC, and get several pallets of dog food. If they'd deliver, I'd buy as much wheat, corn, soybeans (although I despise em ), milo, chick starter, goat feed as they could get their hands on. I've got room in the barns for probably 100 pallets. I'd cover it all with tents or tarps. Get that 'extra' 2nd, 3rd, and maybe even 7th years worth of seeds... in case I plant, and the freeze doesn't break. Greenhouse would possibly work, but having multiple years worth of seeds for planting would be paramount... I only keep an extra year on hand right now.

Go to the hardware store, and have them deliver a pallet of cement, and enough building material to build another home, or possibly two. I have a several page detailed list on the computer, just 'in case'. Think entire 'bundles' of plywood, 2x material, roofing material, rolls of plastic sheeting, etc. All the heavy pvc and fittings available (to build down and dirty greenhouses).

Call up my 'second cousin' that owns a fuel depot, and have them deliver a load of diesel and gasoline. 

Go to Sams, and get some pallets of 'luxury goods'. As well as bulk bags of rice, beans, tea, etc. I'd bring home tons, if I could manage it.

Pharmacy... fatten out everything I already have.

I'd tell my sisters, my aunts, uncles, cousins, and friends to do the same... immediately. IF there was time, I'd probably try and borrow a backhoe, and eliminate all but one way of getting here... and figure out a way to knock that last one 'out' too, if need be.

This is just what I have lists for. Basically, stuff to ensure you can make it through at least a year of deprivation.

I'm sure a lot of us keep food and supplies on hand for six months to a year. Folks like Alan probably have even more. I really don't know 'how' much I have on hand... know it's more than anyone around here that I know of... probably at least a year. BUT, if it's a multi-year soft TEOTWAWKI, its imperative to have those extra years worth of goods on hand. A couple tons of dog chow would be high on my list... as I go through at least 100lbs a month. And, I can eat dog chow if necessary.


----------



## bee (May 12, 2002)

Hmmmm... I raise poultry and know for sure that turkeys need "X" amount of direct light to the top of the tom's head to bring on his fertility for breeding( think lengthing daylight hours in spring) so what happens to the reproductive cycles of food animals during long term low light, not to mention increased cold? Already losses in the spring if the weather "twitches" during lambing time. Plus in a year you can't properly cure hay- bigtime hoofstock reduction. Following this line of thought, look at potential over use of available feed for wild animals and long term ecosystem impact...at least until the starving masses head for the woods. Feral pets and rodents and ZOMBIES oh my!


----------



## Wisconsin Ann (Feb 27, 2007)

The following is from an article about one of the scientists who is watching the volcanoes using satellite infrared technology. They've seen no evidence of activity in Katla since the initial ash plume when Eyjafjoll erupted. Since the two volcanoes are quite close to each other, visual spectrum is obscured by the ash plumes that continue to come from Eyjafjoll.

They're quite worried about Katla because of it's size and the potential ashcloud that it would send up, but the volcano has cooled since the Eyjafjoll eruption..which means there is no new magma shift.

You might be interested in the satellite imagery. It's pretty interesting to see the level of detection they have. 



> The images -- which can be seen on the website http://www.pitt.edu/~mramsey/data/iceland/ -- showed Eyjafjoll heating up in the first image on April 1, but nothing going on with Katla. By April 17, three days after it began major eruptions and European airports had been shut down, a massive plume of ash can be seen emanating from it. But by April 19, the images showed a cooling of the volcano, as did images from this Monday, and still no change in Katla.
> "So far, she seems to be pretty quiet, but we will watch it for several more months at least before we can say it's not going to go," he said. "But if you look at the history there, it's three-for-three that when one goes, the other follows."
> Scientists on the ground in Iceland, who were unable to get close enough to use hand-held thermal cameras themselves, were excited to have the data.
> "They have been very helpful," Sigurour Kristinsson, a geologist with the government-run Iceland GeoSurvey institution, said in a phone interview.
> ...


now..I'm not saying it WON'T erupt, but it hasn't so far. 

As to Ireland shutting down airspace - that's because of a shift in winds again and the ash plume from Eyjafjoll.


----------



## Wisconsin Ann (Feb 27, 2007)

As to surviving if the ash cloud covered the earth for a year or more...Gardens would need a series of long hoop houses over them, I'd think. Something you can light using CFLs for 16 hours a day. Turn them into greenhouses. Generators running. Possible powered by wind turbines if possible. Although the ash would clog the motors. So waste oil generators would be good. And heating.

Hopefully you have enough already in your preps to sustain you for a year. Otherwise, I think Texican has it pretty well covered. Plus as many barrels of waste oil that I could get my hands on.


----------



## Cyngbaeld (May 20, 2004)

It won't be so much the ash falling on the States as it will be stuff in the Stratosphere blocking the sunlight.

If you are in a windy area and need heat, look into eddy current heaters. You can build it yourself if you are handy. A vertical axis windmill can be made from some old metal drums.


----------



## Ernie (Jul 22, 2007)

You are confusing hand wringing with honest intellectual speculation.


----------



## bee (May 12, 2002)

And the Titanic was unsinkable...........:run:


----------



## Ohio dreamer (Apr 6, 2006)

Hand wringing?? Not here. But as a woman who has been observing life for 40 years I have noticed that things will change when you least expect them to. If the government is smart enough to have a few contingency plans in place for XYZ why is it not wise for me to? (Yes, I see the oxymoron in that sentence). 

I'd rather have spent 5 minutes here and there as I go about my daily life thinking of things that could effect my "pattern" and see what little prep/planning I can do to alleviate the disruption. The only thing this thread has caused me to do differently was to jot down those "loose thoughts" so in the event XYZ happens (this plan would work for many things other that Katla) I don't have to try to sit down, focus and write it out then. Now I have a nice little document sitting on my desk top that I can add to as I think of things or when someone else mentions them....like I hadn't thought of grain :hammer:


----------



## Ernie (Jul 22, 2007)

My "hand-wringing" is usually extremely productive. It results in an extra 130' row of potatoes being planted. Nothing calms the mind like hard physical labor and the smell of fresh-turned earth.


----------



## willbuck1 (Apr 4, 2010)

D M those same northern volcanoes have had a major impact on the climate within the history of the US.


----------



## debbiekatiesmom (Feb 24, 2009)

i respect your opinion, ernie. i do not see any harm in being extra-productive at all. my goodness, should it really be a non-event(and i pray it is), we know the prices are spiraling anyways. why not go ahead and stock up?!


----------



## Ohio dreamer (Apr 6, 2006)

Ernie said:


> My "hand-wringing" is usually extremely productive. It results in an extra 130' row of potatoes being planted. Nothing calms the mind like hard physical labor and the smell of fresh-turned earth.


Ernie, feel free to stop by any day and wring your hands, LOL!


----------



## TheMartianChick (May 26, 2009)

I think that it is important to have a dress rehearsal for the many things that can go wrong...even if it is only a mental exercise. It is much easier to have a plan of action than to have to pull something out of a hat in an emergency.

Whenever I hear of some sort of catastrophe, I spend time thinking it through as I garden, exercise or take a bath. I don't dwell on it. Sometimes, it helps to pinpoint those gaps in our preparations.

I don't bite my fingernails, nor do I wring my hands...


----------



## Cyngbaeld (May 20, 2004)

Deacon Mike said:


> Good Lord people. So much hand wringing about a total non event
> 
> 1 Katla is not erupting
> 2 Katla is not that big a volcano
> ...


http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=how-do-volcanoes-affect-w

You might find this interesting.


----------



## texican (Oct 4, 2003)

Deacon Mike said:


> Good Lord people. So much hand wringing about a total non event
> 
> 1 Katla is not erupting
> 2 Katla is not that big a volcano
> ...


Sorry, no handwringing here. I 'did' set up an alert on my gmail account, in case something 'did' happen.

I got up this fine birthday morning and milked the goats, fed the chickens, and saw to some 'bridal suite' dogs, ate a hearty breakfast, and sat down to work. I may have spent 20 seconds today worrying... only till a page could load that gmail notifier sent me... once I saw it was another false alarm, I went back to my business. I'll be knocking off early today, cause it's my birthday, and I'll go out and walk the goats, and the dogs... if the wind is still whipping good, I'll raise the sails on the sailboat and see where it takes me. {Of course, that'd mean launching one of my predator drones for aerial surveillance and having to leave my hardened concrete bunker 20' underground  ...just kidding folks, I crashed my drone a few months ago...}

If it did blow, I have plans, basically insurance on top of my current 'insurance policy'. If you don't have a plan, or plans, great. Hope you and your family enjoy the fate that befalls those who don't prepare. [I also have plans for zombie invasions {if you prepare for a zombie invasion, everything else (including volcanic eruptions) is a piece of cake.}]

The several days between blowing and the effects to be seen, would be all I needed to get ready. IF nothing happened, I'd continue living the exact same way I always have. I'll just have, on hand, the things I normally purchase, (to maintain my standard of living) for the next three or four years. All I'd be 'out', is less cash on hand. With inflation concerns, and the less than 2% interest rates, purchasing needed items now is a better gamble than inflation eating away my liquid net worth.

I'd rather be ready and not need anything than to need something and not be ready. If a person waits till they need something, and they're not ready, a good chance whatever they need won't be available.


----------



## Ernie (Jul 22, 2007)

You got anything useful to add here? You never show up except to complain. Same as a couple of others. If you don't like what we're saying or don't find it of value, then don't click on the link. Simple as that. Your useless replies not only don't help, but just annoy the crap out of folk who would like to discuss the topic reasonably.

Sorry, Angie. My days of suffering fools have about reached their end. I'd like for once to be able to talk about possible prepping scenarios or potential issues on the horizon (even if it might not happen in the next 100 years) without someone showing up to scoff. I get enough of that nonsense in the rest of the world.


----------



## Ohio dreamer (Apr 6, 2006)

Thank you, Ernie :clap:


----------



## TheMartianChick (May 26, 2009)

I don't understand why anyone would think that talking about the potential for disaster is somehow wrong. After Hurricane Katrina, lots of people across America thought that the people should have been better prepared. After every Florida hurricane people here say that they don't understand why the folks make a mad rush to the store, as though they didn't know that it was hurricane season.

By discussing various scenarios, we can share ideas and information and formulate better plans so that we can rely on ourselves. Are we wrong to think that this might be helpful? I thought that this is why we come to this forum. Would you prefer that we fail to plan?


----------



## RiverPines (Dec 12, 2006)

If you want to worry about volcanoes, worry about Yellowstone. Someday that puppy will blow and then we will have some major issues to deal with, those of us that are left.


----------



## Dr. Mom (Jan 13, 2008)

This is, after all, the Survival and Emergency Preparedness forum. Why would someone come here and attempt to disprove valuable information which is the basic essence of this forum? People who refuse to listen to facts that might save their lives one day need to go back to burying their heads in sand. They will just be a hindrance to the survival of others who listened and were prepared.


----------



## naturelover (Jun 6, 2006)

Deacon Mike said:


> Looks like hand wringing to me. Actually, some of it looks like uninformed panic.


I don't see handwringing or panic here. Somebody asked a valid question and people are trying to give helpful advice. Rather than scoff if you think people are being uninformed then please try to contribute something constructive and factual from your point of view to allay any fears that some others might have. That's the purpose of this board.

.


----------



## naturelover (Jun 6, 2006)

texican said:


> I 'did' set up an alert on my gmail account, in case something 'did' happen.


Texican I wasn't aware of such a useful feature on gmail. Can you explain how to do that, I'd like to do the same with my gmail account.

.


----------



## Cyngbaeld (May 20, 2004)

Deacon Mike said:


> Oh. really....
> 
> 
> 
> ...


You obviously did not read the article since it directly contradicts your points.


----------



## damoc (Jul 14, 2007)

Deacon Mike said:


> *I realize that as chairman of the Legion of Doom*


not agreeing with you DM but i thought this was very funny:run::smiley-laughing013::smiley-laughing013::smiley-laughing013:

and i think we should have monthly elections for the post ha ha


----------



## NickieL (Jun 15, 2007)

hhmmmm. I predict it will blow on the 5th, tomorrow! 

(but don't place money on that bet)


----------



## JIL (Aug 25, 2007)

I didn't think this was general chat! I find this topic on volcanos very interesting, learning some things I didn't know.


----------



## TheMartianChick (May 26, 2009)

Whether you believe that Katla will be a problem or not is irrelevant. There are other volcanoes out there and any one of us could find ourselves needing to protect and care for our families. Katla gives us an opportunity to discuss it.

Ernie, can I join the Legion of Doom? If it means analyzing the what ifs, then I want to be in that club!


----------



## megafatcat (Jun 30, 2009)

I would also like to join. Could we have our own smiley? Perhaps one with a volcano on its head?


----------



## barnyardfun (Mar 26, 2005)

Wow, just WOW! I am with the people saying if you don't think a volcano is anything to worry about then just go on, we don't need you here. What is the point in wasting every one's valuable time just to hear you try to contradict EVERYTHING someone else is saying?:bash:

I asked the questions about what to prepare not out of hand wringing fear that the end day has come because of some volcano. I asked the question because to be perfectly honest I had never really set down to think about what a volcano COULD do. I don't know much about a volcano, no idea what it could do to it's surrounding area or how far it's effects would spread. 

Ernie, I greatly value your opinion on these matters along with several others on this forum. You all have helped me be a little better prepared (though I am nowhere near where I need to be) and sleep just a little better at night. If it makes you all feel any better your knowledge has contributed to keeping my family that much safer. And for that I am eternally grateful!:thumb:


----------



## TheMartianChick (May 26, 2009)

megafatcat said:


> I would also like to join. Could we have our own smiley? Perhaps one with a volcano on its head?


Thar she blows!!!:clap:


----------



## JIL (Aug 25, 2007)

Has there been any more news on Katla? is she still cooling down? and is that a real good sign? I was also wondering about the earthquakes my mind kinda goes to thinking that this all may be related. volcanos heating up earth shifting plates is there any corralation to drilling? I have been looking at shipping containers the insulated ones for storage I think that may come in handy one day for the extra's I was at first thinking that it could be used for storing fresh veggies by installing a window unit.


----------



## Cyngbaeld (May 20, 2004)

http://apnews.myway.com/article/20100504/D9FG9N5G0.html


> My Way
> Iceland's ash may keep choking Europe's air travel
> Email this Story
> 
> ...


----------



## AngieM2 (May 10, 2002)

The interruption to the discussion about the Katla volcano is deleted and I don't think we'll have that again soon.

This is the Survival forum for discussions such as this, and insulting nay sayers that are not discussing - well......

So, please continue. 

Also, Legion of Doom meets on Tuesdays, so this must be the meeting, and I cannot find a volcano type of smiley or similar for us, yet.

Please do a report a post when the thread starts going GC, etc. Someone did report this, and I was able to come clean up. I'd been at work and then out with my parents since before it started getting baiting, trolling, insulting to the whole forum posts.

Thanks to the person that reported it, and it was not any major poster on this thread. (as in Not Ernie). Just for the benefit of those that try to pin it on him.

Angie


----------



## texican (Oct 4, 2003)

naturelover said:


> Texican I wasn't aware of such a useful feature on gmail. Can you explain how to do that, I'd like to do the same with my gmail account.
> 
> .


I utilize several websites for news... Drudge for my conservative side, HuffingtonPost for my liberal side... I use Google News the most. You can access google news, by going to googles home page, and clicking on News. I believe, up in the right hand corner, you can add your own specific news sections... I have subsections set up on my favorite National Parks, basic USFS, BLM, Fish and Wildlife Service, Astronomy, Physics, etc., which will give me the latest three posts on those subjects each time I visit. 

To set up an alert, enter a search term in the google news search box, when the results pop up, at the bottom of the page, it'll have a link for email alerts or to set up a sub-section on the regular google news page.

edited to add:
shucks, I leave for a few hours, and something exciting happens....

I've been looking for an excuse to get a full length black duster... think it'd make a most excellent Legion of Doom uniform! Isn't that what the guys on the Matrix wore?

Since this Katla could potentially be something to worry about, I set an email alert using my google email. I have the Gmail "notifier' program on my computer, and it goes from pale to dark blue, when a message appears. I only use this address for human contacts, so I don't have to worry about a jillion forwarded messages. I work from home, so it's always there in the corner of the toolbar, ready to inform me of potential email (armageddons! )


----------



## naturelover (Jun 6, 2006)

Cool! Thanks Texican. :thumb:

.


----------



## Bonnie L (May 11, 2002)

I lived sort of close to Mt St Helens when it blew. I was not at all prepared. I looked at it more as a lark than a disaster. Had I lived closer, it would not have gone well for me. 

Knowledge is good & useful. Thanks, all you knowledgeable people! :rock:


----------



## Ode (Sep 20, 2006)

Ernie said:


> My "hand-wringing" is usually extremely productive. It results in an extra 130' row of potatoes being planted. Nothing calms the mind like hard physical labor and the smell of fresh-turned earth.


You are welcome to come to my house and wring your hands anytime! I like the way you react to stress. :goodjob: 



megafatcat said:


> I would also like to join. Could we have our own smiley? Perhaps one with a volcano on its head?


Ohhhhh! Yes, please! A blowing volcano smiley would be amazing, lol Especially if it was combined with this one! 
:run:

On topic, I lived near Mount Shasta and Mount Lassen in California as a child. When young, I didn't have the slightest clue about what could possibly happen. Volcanoes were in Hawaii!!! As an adult though, it made my stomach twist a bit when I remembered all the times we spent camping on those mountains, and visiting the hot springs and hot mud springs. At the time, I thought it was a pretty cool place to go. These days I wouldn't live anywhere near one. Way too dangerous.

I watched a show the other day about Italy, and how huge the area of Naples has become. It is right on the slopes of Mount Vesuvius, and there would be no way for those people to evacuate in time if there was a major eruption. There are about 5 million people living in that area. :shocked: Even knowing what that volcano has done in the past, people still live there and property values are really high. It's crazy.

I wish I had enough cash to do some major stocking up if Katla blows. This economic downturn has really hurt our savings.


----------



## soulsurvivor (Jul 4, 2004)

soulsurvivor said:


> I need to add this link as a "go to" for all current updates. Here's the most recent report:
> 
> http://en.vedur.is/earthquakes-and-volcanism/articles/nr/1884


The above link is from the Icelandic Meterological Office and is a daily update on the status of the volcanic activity. And it's in English. Please post any links you find for daily updates in English. Thanks.


----------



## TheMartianChick (May 26, 2009)

Ode said:


> I wish I had enough cash to do some major stocking up if Katla blows. This economic downturn has really hurt our savings.


I am in a similar position right now. We have two kids in college and are still trying to pay down some property related debt. We don't have a lot of money to spend on stocking things up. We've been living off of some of our preps in an attempt to have more money to pay off the bills.

One thing that we have been doing more of is looking for things at the curb that we can use. So for firewood, my husband has been bringing scraps of pine 4x4's that his employer discards. They work well for getting the fire burning really hot. We also find a lot of logs out at the curb from people removing trees from their yards. A neighbor recently gave us about a cord or so of wood from a tree that he took down in his yard. He borrowed our wedge to split the wood and then had his grandsons bring it across the street in a wheelbarrow. All of that wood delivered to us for the "cost" of letting someone use our wedge!

We've also been finding perfectly good 2x4's and other wood out at the curb that we keep for some of our building projects.

I was at Aldi's the other day and discovered that they had a bargain bin of discounted goods. I found some items in there for less than a dollar each. When I don't feel that I have much money for stocking up, I also will buy a package of Ramen noodles. My daughters discovered them in college and think of them as a comfort food. Excess veggies are immediately dehydrated in my house to prevent them from going bad. So even when there isn't much money available, there are ways to stock up.

The dollar store is another place that I visit when I don't have a lot of money for stocking up. You can usually find some inexpensive first aid items, toiletries, matches and sometimes even clothing like scarves, gloves and hats. I like to buy the cheapo winter gloves there because we also have grandkids who always seem to lose gloves when they come to visit.

I have found lots of big pillar candles and votive candle holders at yard sales for a quarter or less and have been able to get yarn, knitting & crocheting needles, canning jars and lids just by mentioning to friends and family that I am seeking them.

You can place an ad on Craigslist asking for cuttings or roots of edible plants that you'd like to own. Many people are willing to share...for nothing!

If you feel that you are unable to raise livestock where you are, maybe you can raise quail. There are several of us here that raise them. They grow up in 6 weeks and can be eaten or used for eggs.

(I know that this got a bit long-winded but...) There is a lot that you can do, even on limited funds or by bartering. Don't be discouraged and don't think that you have to do it all at once. Slow and steady is the way to go!


----------



## AngieM2 (May 10, 2002)

Are you watching the news this morning? Twice now I've seen where either 1st volcano is spewing more ash, and causing some air craft grounding for the past two days. Okay it was the original volcano.

So those things are still being active over there.
And causing problems in other countries.

Angie


----------



## soulsurvivor (Jul 4, 2004)

Here's another daily news update from Iceland that's in English:

http://www.icelandreview.com/icelandreview/

The headline today is that the volcano is spewing as much ash as it did in the beginning. 

"The phreatic eruption continues with significant force and explosive activity is increasing. The Civil Protection Department will discuss the situation today."



I've also read that there's a blue mist in areas in and around the eruption, and that there's a map showing areas that are now off limits to people. There are several news articles at the above link that talk about the effects the ash is having on both Iceland and other countries. Here's the link discussing the blue mist:
http://www.icelandreview.com/icelandreview/daily_news/?cat_id=16539&ew_0_a_id=361812


----------



## Jakk (Aug 14, 2008)

I have been trying to use up some of my storage since we are moving this summer. I need to clear out a lot of stuff from my house so I can list it with the real estate agent to sell it. I rented a storage unit and have been bringing stuff over a little at a time. I am using meats from the freezers and have not been shopping for anything other then fresh fruits, milk and other perishables. I keep getting this nagging feeling in my gut that I need to be stocking up MORE, not using what we already have.


----------



## texican (Oct 4, 2003)

Jakk said:


> I have been trying to use up some of my storage since we are moving this summer. I need to clear out a lot of stuff from my house so I can list it with the real estate agent to sell it. I rented a storage unit and have been bringing stuff over a little at a time. I am using meats from the freezers and have not been shopping for anything other then fresh fruits, milk and other perishables. I keep getting this nagging feeling in my gut that I need to be stocking up MORE, not using what we already have.


Sometimes you have to draw down the stores, because of circumstances. Back at the first of the year, a lot of my food stores started getting low, as I hadn't got any payments from clients in a few months. Checks started dribbling in, and I built back up. I had that 'nagging feeling' everytime I walked into my utility room and seeing the stocks evaporating away.

If your moving this summer, personally I'd be nervous about getting rid of everything, but then again, it'd be a major job to move everything. Hopefully nothing bad happens ever... but at least till ya'll get settled in your new place, and then you can get your 'security blanket' back again!


----------



## TheMartianChick (May 26, 2009)

Jakk said:


> I have been trying to use up some of my storage since we are moving this summer. I need to clear out a lot of stuff from my house so I can list it with the real estate agent to sell it. I rented a storage unit and have been bringing stuff over a little at a time. I am using meats from the freezers and have not been shopping for anything other then fresh fruits, milk and other perishables. I keep getting this nagging feeling in my gut that I need to be stocking up MORE, not using what we already have.


As you use up the perishables like meat, just make sure that you hold onto at least a 2 week supply of non-perishables. I would be leery of allowing it to dwindle down to nothing. As we were consuming our stored food, I also felt uneasy. I guess it just means that we have learned our lessons well and that there really is security in our stored food.


----------



## Jakk (Aug 14, 2008)

I have about 9 months of non perishables, a year or more of some things. I am taking a good chunk of those and putting them into the storage unit so I will have at least 3 months when I move. It just makes me nervous to be low on stuff in the house. If something happened and we lost power I would have no access to anything at the storage unit. There is an electric powered/locked gate just to get into the parking lot. I will feel a lot better once this move is behind us and we can build our storage back up.


----------



## Wisconsin Ann (Feb 27, 2007)

About the 1st volcano....the vulcanologists said when it first blew that 1)it was overdue and 2)it usually blows ash for months. Something to do with the depth of the thing and covering of ice there. 

Katla hasn't shown any signs of heating up since it cooled back down again right after the EY...er, however it's spelled....blew it's top. (according to the guy who is in charge of the infra red data)


----------



## JIL (Aug 25, 2007)

thanks for the update


----------



## texican (Oct 4, 2003)

For the last couple of days, my google news alert on my gmail account has been very slow... basically rehashing the airline industry concerns. No news is good news, in this case.

Then again... If it really went medieval and blew big time, who's to say everything local wouldn't be blown off the grid? If the webcams saw it happening gradually, over a period of minutes, the 'word' should get out... unless they were taken out in the initial event. Reckon if it went dark (webcam, or reports) that would be a sign in itself!


----------



## Terri (May 10, 2002)

Since Katya is cooling, I suspect that the magma is using a different outlet. But we know so little about volcanos!


----------



## soulsurvivor (Jul 4, 2004)

Ash Fall Closes Schools in South Iceland

http://www.icelandreview.com/icelandreview/daily_news/?cat_id=16539&ew_0_a_id=361911

The Iceland residents in the south are being advised to bug-in and seal their doors and windows. Also advised not to go outside but if they do they need to wear protective masks and goggles.

This is still the Eyjafjallajokull volcano that's erupting and not the Katla volcano. 

Ireland is closing 6 airports at noon today because of the ash cloud from Iceland.

Here's a webcam of the current Eyjafjallajokull volcano eruption:

http://eldgos.mila.is/eyjafjallajokull-fra-thorolfsfelli/

Here's a better view if the clouds aren't in the way:

http://eldgos.mila.is/eyjafjallajokull-fra-hvolsvelli/


----------



## Cyngbaeld (May 20, 2004)

http://scienceray.com/earth-science...new-seismic-activity-42810-eruption-imminent/

She's gonna blow. Had an earthquake and she normally does that just very shortly prior to blowing.


----------



## Ernie (Jul 22, 2007)

So let's put together a list of plants that might do well with less sunlight and colder temperatures?

Also, I normally buy hay in late August but I think I'm going to stockpile earlier on the first cuttings. Just in case.


----------



## Cyngbaeld (May 20, 2004)

Probably any plants that normally do well in a zone one or two smaller than your's. For example, I am in zone 8b, so I should think about plants that do well in 6 or 7. Some things, like potatoes, I can plant but in late fall or early spring normally, may do well planted later in the spring or earlier in the fall.

Actually, a cooler year could be of benefit to the normally hotter areas as long as the farmers will go with the flow. They might want to forgo cotton, for instance, as it needs a lot of heat to produce.


----------



## bee (May 12, 2002)

kale, turnips, beets, peas, favas ,cauliflower , broccolli, lettuce, radish,rutabaga, oats, barley, millet, jersuelem artichokes,spinach

blueberries, cranberries, filberts,sugar maple, service berry


----------



## bee (May 12, 2002)

Opps forgot to mention..I am zone 6 so my list is for those things here that are "early season" and the fruiting bushes/trees listed are for northern climate and or understory plants that do well in semi-shade. Look in seed catalogs for anything that is ready to eat fast like lettuce or baby beets and turnips- some as little as 45 days. Then look at what you can "cut and come again"- this is mostly greens. If you want to try the heat loving corn and tomatos, check for short season varieties...some corns(sweet) under 70 days and there are flour corns that mature in 85 days; tomato varieties that set fruit without pollination and some determinates in 60 days from transplanting. Many small cherry varieties in 60 days or less.


----------



## secretcreek (Jan 24, 2010)

I talk to my two son's all -the- time- about current events...but being 19 y.o.'s they only hear about half due to their "immortality" <rolls eyes>. I just keep talking, showing, suggesting. 

Today, I asked one to bring in his BOB from the car so we could restock and rotate stuff in it. I told him it makes me , as a momma feel better knowing he's got it to fall back on if need be. *(He's already dug into the BOB for food when he had no lunch at college, and for the fleece blanket when he took a nap to burn a few hours until the next class. )* He looked up and said; " Did you know we might not have summer for two years? One of my professors was telling us this in class, yesterday" he said. 

I looked at him then "blew his mind" ( his words) on my knowledge of the Iceland volcano's and what could happen if Katla does go. (Okay so I'm being a bit dramatic) Ditto on the -what if- if Yellowstone warms up LOL. I just told him he'd be okay as long as he had his survival/ homesteading skills up to snuff and moreso if his soul was good with God ) 

Seems his momma somehow got a lot smarter, and is indeed more in the know, than he thought. LOL 

I LOVE when I'm validated. 

-scrt crk


----------



## naturelover (Jun 6, 2006)

Cyngbaeld said:


> http://scienceray.com/earth-science...new-seismic-activity-42810-eruption-imminent/
> 
> She's gonna blow. Had an earthquake and she normally does that just very shortly prior to blowing.


Two things I want to say about this link, just a precaution for folks.

When I clicked on the link my computer notified me there was a "dangerous" virus attached to the link. So anyone looking at that link be cautious if you don't have a good firewall and virus protection. 

I quarantined the virus and then read the article, took note of the date of the article, April 28, 2010, and that it stated that a significant seismic activity took place that day at Katla but it did not say what magnitude.

However, on the USGS Earthquake site http://neic.usgs.gov/neis/qed/ there is no evidence of there having been any seisimic activity recorded for Iceland on April 28/2010, nor on the 27th or 29th. If there was, it wasn't significant enough to register.

If you want to monitor seismic activity anywhere the USGS site above is more reliable (and doesn't have viruses attached).

I don't think Katla is going to blow for awhile yet, if it does at all.

.


----------



## Cyngbaeld (May 20, 2004)

http://hraun.vedur.is/ja/englishweb/
http://earthquake.usgs.gov/earthquakes/recenteqsww/Maps/ortho/270_90_eqs.php
Doesn't look like the usgs covers Icelandic earthquakes.


----------



## Bonnie L (May 11, 2002)

secretcreek said:


> I talk to my two son's all -the- time- about current events...but being 19 y.o.'s they only hear about half due to their "immortality" <rolls eyes>.


We were just talking about Katla & my 19-yo said it was neat being alive now with all the exciting stuff going on. :rock:

Which was always my attitude, but I'm a lot less excited about "exciting stuff" now that I'm older!


----------



## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

> my 19-yo said it was neat being alive now with all the exciting stuff going on


LOL 
When you're 19, everything is exciting


----------



## where I want to (Oct 28, 2008)

Bearfootfarm said:


> LOL
> When you're 19, everything is exciting


It's exciting at age 60- but you have learned by then that you can't so fast as you used to run.


----------



## barnyardfun (Mar 26, 2005)

where I want to said:


> It's exciting at age 60- but you have learned by then that you can't so fast as you used to run.


Makes and early warning that much more important huh?


----------



## Cyngbaeld (May 20, 2004)

http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/local/os-oia-europe-flights-20100508,0,1851202.story



> Ash from Icelandic volcano affecting flights again;
> 
> By Anika Myers Palm, Orlando Sentinel
> 
> ...


----------



## Cyngbaeld (May 20, 2004)

> Iceland volcano eruption closes Spanish airports
> May 8, 10:58 AMChicago International Travel ExaminerDennis D. Jacobs
> A cloud of dense volcanic ash from Iceland&#8217;s EyjafjallajÃ¶kull volcano that closed airports in Ireland and Scotland earlier in the week has moved south and is now causing airport closures in Spain.
> 
> ...


http://www.examiner.com/x-3122-Chic...land-volcano-eruption-closes-Spanish-airports


----------



## texican (Oct 4, 2003)

Read conflicting reports, about either Katja (or Laki) erupting in the 1700's, and the Mississippi River froze just north of New Orleans... That means where I'm at would have all surface waters froze solid.

More information I'll have to process in my 'downtime' (sleep).

I would not look forward to having to haul water for six months... cutting through the ice each day.


----------



## Cyngbaeld (May 20, 2004)

You KNOW it was cold for the Mississippi to freeze that far south!

My waterline runs above ground for a quarter of a mile plus has a stretch that is suspended over the creek. On the occasional really cold night I let it run all night. In that kind of cold, running isn't going to keep it thawed. I need to be thinking about what to do about that.


----------



## chickenista (Mar 24, 2007)

That was Laki that froze the Mississippi. It also froze the Chesapeake Bay and they ice skated under the bridge in Charleston. It erupted 1783 and the effects were 1784.


----------



## Dr. Mom (Jan 13, 2008)

Any more news reports about Katla? I heard some airports were closed again from the ash but no major eruptions so far.

Here's a link to 6 major volcanoes in the world and their likelihood of erupting. Katla is #1 on the list.

http://www.prophecynewswatch.com/2010/April30/3093.html



> 1. KATLA (Iceland)
> Last erupted: 1918
> Effects of a major eruption: If Katla goes off, its eruption will be 10 times stronger than Eyjafjallajokull's. Katla's larger ash plume would shoot higher in the air and spread over larger areas of Europe for a longer period, with much more devastating effects on air travel and economic trade. An eruption could tip Europe's economy â perhaps even the world's â back into severe recession or a depression.
> Likelihood: Fairly high. The two volcanoes, only 12 miles apart, tend to erupt in tandem, and Katla is slightly overdue in its 80-year cycle.


----------



## barnyardfun (Mar 26, 2005)

I am pretty ignorant to all of this so sorry if my questions are silly. If all this happened and it shut down economic trade from Europe, how would that effect us? I don't understand how all this works and really have no idea the kinds of things we depend on Europe for. Thanks.


----------



## Dr. Mom (Jan 13, 2008)

barnyardfun said:


> I am pretty ignorant to all of this so sorry if my questions are silly. If all this happened and it shut down economic trade from Europe, how would that effect us? I don't understand how all this works and really have no idea the kinds of things we depend on Europe for. Thanks.


I don't know all the answers by any means and have a lot more questions myself than answers. I do know that every country is tied together economically. If one goes down, it's a domino effect. That's why everyone is watching what happens in Greece. 

http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/bb184e6a-5b9b-11df-85a3-00144feab49a.html



> At the end of last week, the US looked hard at Greece and was scared. So tiny an economy should not be bringing all of Europe low and even threatening to explode the euro, but it is. What started as a US financial crisis plunged Europe into recession; was Europe about to return the compliment? What, Americans began to wonder, did Europeâs problems tell them about their own?


----------



## barnyardfun (Mar 26, 2005)

Dr. Mom said:


> http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/bb184e6a-5b9b-11df-85a3-00144feab49a.html


Uh Oh.:shocked:


----------



## texican (Oct 4, 2003)

barnyardfun said:


> I am pretty ignorant to all of this so sorry if my questions are silly. If all this happened and it shut down economic trade from Europe, how would that effect us? I don't understand how all this works and really have no idea the kinds of things we depend on Europe for. Thanks.


Well, it this were the bad Katla (or another large high altitude ash spewing volcano) it would encircle the northern hemisphere, not just Europe, and we'd all be in the same very cold 'boat'.

I haven't worried about the Economic trade... I've worried about the massive death toll that would be attributable to starvation and hypothermia (frozen to death). Europe produces very little of their own energy (outside of nuclear power plants).... they depend on OPEC and Russian gas. 

IF Europe were enveloped in a mini ice age, and fuel wasn't able to be delivered, I daresay a good portion of their population would disappear... for whatever reason, if a continent goes down, panic alone would make things interesting here.


----------



## Ohio dreamer (Apr 6, 2006)

Texican, any guess on how much of Europe's energy get's "trucked in"? 

I only ask as when we live in Europe there were windmills everywhere we visited (Austria, Germany, Italy - not so much in France), so I know they have some local energy. And of course, Germany just finished their major solar re-hab...that was fun to see driving through last year. We lived in Hungary and there was little to no solar, wind, etc. that we saw other then on the western boarder with Austria. Just wondering if much of Western Europe is more like Austria and Germany or like Hungary. I know Eastern Europe is dependent on Russia - I don't even what to think about that anymore!


----------



## candyknitter (Apr 23, 2009)

I just saw the weather report here and they said that it was -6 in parts of Scotland last night and it had been the coldest May night for 14 years. 1st thing I think is "Hey Ernie was saying about something about 1816 and frosts...." Looks like that darn volcano is up to tricks!!


----------



## texican (Oct 4, 2003)

Ohio dreamer said:


> Texican, any guess on how much of Europe's energy get's "trucked in"?
> 
> I only ask as when we live in Europe there were windmills everywhere we visited (Austria, Germany, Italy - not so much in France), so I know they have some local energy. And of course, Germany just finished their major solar re-hab...that was fun to see driving through last year. We lived in Hungary and there was little to no solar, wind, etc. that we saw other then on the western boarder with Austria. Just wondering if much of Western Europe is more like Austria and Germany or like Hungary. I know Eastern Europe is dependent on Russia - I don't even what to think about that anymore!


If you ever lived off the grid for a while, this would make perfect sense... I love alternative energy, but to live on it totally, one must live within thier means. When I was off grid, I couldn't use more than I made, or I had to charge the batteries with a genny. Solar, Wind, whatever, doesn't produce 100% all the time... There's always a need for quick starting on demand plants, and these require fossil fuels (gas or oil... there are two on demand micro gas power plants within 20 miles of here). Without the fossil fueled plants, when power needs exceeded production of alternative sources, there'd be blackouts, and blackouts can lead to cascading failures. I'm sure there are lots of individuals in Europe who've went solar or wind, and installed battery backups, to provide themselves with some energy security... it's just the masses haven't jumped on board, in an individualized way, instead, leaving it up to others to deal with (and hence, the need for fuel powered generating stations). I've read where even Nuclear Power plants need the 'grid' to operate, or they'd shut down. Could be wrong... wouldn't be the first time.

Europe is moving fast towards alternatives, because there's very little native production (outside of coal, and that's not real popular). The North Sea produces a lot of oil for Great Britain and some of the Scandinavian countries (one reason why they can have such luxurious socialist state programs... Socialism works great if you have 'free energy').

Imho, Europe would go cold without Russian gas. I have friends and relatives in the oil business... everyone from hammer swinging worms to top execs... and they never ever mention going to Western Europe for anything (except transfers to other remote areas of the world).


----------

