# No more bees



## Zeet_Cranberry (Jan 11, 2011)

Last summer we set up two hives. Our two kids joined the 4-H Beekeepers Club. Lots of bees through the summer and in late summer we took a out 8 gallons of honey. Seemed to going fine. Later in the fall we checked and found both hives dead. All dead or gone. The numbers in the hive suggested a low population not able to keep warm. We ordered 2 nucs for the spring. But then we reconsidered. We have 6 acres in the country. Corn fields on three sides and a large apple orchard across the road. We have a large garden and 24 fruit trees of our own. Perfect setup for bees, right. The cornfields get regular pesticides. And we will never steal a single apple from the big orchard after seeing how often they spray pesticides on their crop. We are surrounded by poison. No matter how hard we try to be organic....our bees are getting nectar and pollen from poisoned plants. So we have decided to not have bees....


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## CesumPec (May 20, 2011)

Ughhh...I feel your pain and that's why i live in the middle of a forest.


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## Bret (Oct 3, 2003)

No quitting allowed.  The first year is just for learning. Try some more. I fail at most things the first time or two. I am a natural born failure.


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## haypoint (Oct 4, 2006)

Homesteading was tough, homesteading today even harder. 
Are you sure the corn is getting insecticides? Most corn isn't sprayed with insecticides. Early on corn is sprayed with glyphosate (Roundup), that won't kill bees. Bees may be near corn, but there isn't any nectar there. Can you talk to the orchard owner and see what he is using. My guess is that he isn't spraying during blossoming. But you need to know what is going on around you. I don't claim to be a bee expert, but I wonder if you left them enough food to over-winter? Did you check for mites, bacteria or disease? Blaming the neighbors is not a solution.


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## simi-steading (Sep 27, 2012)

Are you sure Round-up won't kill bees? A lot of keepers believe it does.. There was research done on it, and some really funky things happened with that researcher.. Now that company that makes Roundup has gotten into bee research, and isn't sharing data... 

Nothing has proved it does kill bees, but nothing has been released, or allowed to be released that says if it does or not..


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## CesumPec (May 20, 2011)

ETA - deleted. Wrong section for the comment


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## DarleneJ (Jan 29, 2012)

You took out 8 gallons of honey? Since honey weighs about 11 lbs per gallon, you removed 88 pounds of honey from the bees winter stores. Italians (you didn't say what you had) require around 100 lbs per hive to make it through winter and even then sometimes they need additional food.

If there wasn't enough honey in the hive for the bees to overwinter, they should have been fed extra food in the fall when their food supply was drying up. Beekeepers generally don't expect to harvest much honey from a first year hive for this reason.

While I wouldn't say that pesticide use isn't harming bees (because I believe it does), poor management practices is often more to blame. To offer more input we would need to know more about the condition of the hives: pests, diseases, how they were overwintered, etc.

I agree that it is not wise to throw in the towel at this point. Beekeeping is a learning experience. Blaming the hive losses on pesticides is not the answer either. The answer just isn't clear because there are not enough facts presented to determine cause of death, although I highly suspect that they starved, unless you can explain how much and what they were fed through the winter season.


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## Farmer Willy (Aug 7, 2005)

CesumPec said:


> Yes, haypoint is sure Roundup doesn't do ANYTHING bad. Afterall, it is made by BigAg and BigAg never does anything wrong.


Snark much?


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## CesumPec (May 20, 2011)

Farmer Willy said:


> Snark much?


Yes i do and it was the wrong forum for that. Is deleted now.


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## copperkid3 (Mar 18, 2005)

haypoint said:


> Homesteading was tough, homesteading today even harder.
> Are you sure the corn is getting insecticides? Most corn isn't sprayed with insecticides. Early on corn is sprayed with glyphosate (Roundup), that won't kill bees. Bees may be near corn, but there isn't any nectar there. Can you talk to the orchard owner and see what he is using. My guess is that he isn't spraying during blossoming. But you need to know what is going on around you. I don't claim to be a bee expert, but I wonder if you left them enough food to over-winter? Did you check for mites, bacteria or disease? Blaming the neighbors is not a solution.


* * * * * * * * * * * * * * 
it has already been applied to the planted seed! 

This 'stuff' is EXTREMELY toxic to honeybees and 

while it's true that no nectar is gathered from corn, the

pollen is, and that 'stuff' is systemic

(already throughout the entire plant)

and already in the pollen,

which is gathered and brought back into the hive. 

Eventually it is fed to the larvae and it begins doing 

it's magic and makes the bees "disappear".

It wouldn't surprise me in the least, if the o.p. bee's were in fact, poisoned.

http://www.npr.org/blogs/thesalt/20...s-show-why-insecticides-are-bad-news-for-bees 

http://www.non-gmoreport.com/articles/february2012/insecticideforGMcorntoxicbees.php 

http://www.viewzone.com/lostbees.bayerx.html

Once again we agree that blaming the neighbor's isn't a solution . . . 

BUT perhaps blaming Bayer is; afterall, it is their product. Or better yet,

we could also include the EPA & the FDA, as they seem to routinely rubber-stamp

whatever the chemical companies want to market without the proper studies done first.


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## Zeet_Cranberry (Jan 11, 2011)

We originally took the honey from two shallows leaving two deeps...with plenty of honey and brood and with the blessing of a couple very experienced beekeepers. Earlier in the fall there were a lot of dead bees around the hives but there were plenty remaining. When we checked later in the fall they were all dead but also no brood so we suspect the queens had either died or flown off maybe a month earlier and there wasn't enough mass to stay warm. The final dying was very likely from cold not starvation but the earlier die off seems consistent with stories we heard of losses due to pesticides in the environment.


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## haypoint (Oct 4, 2006)

copperkid3 said:


> * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
> it has already been applied to the planted seed!
> 
> This 'stuff' is EXTREMELY toxic to honeybees and
> ...


You are right, most corn seed is coated with either a fungicide or an insecticide prior to planting in the ground. Don't see many bees digging up seed corn.
What "stuff" that is EXTREMLEY toxic are you talking about? Insecticide applied on seed corn is not systemic. Perhaps you are believing that GM Corn with Bt effects bees? I think the "magic" you refer to is fictional.
Some believe bee collapse is caused by a combination of stress, mites, weather fluctuations and diseases. For others it is Monsanto's fault while others blame George Bush.

Experienced bee keepers routinely lose hives. Been happening for centuries. Pound for pound, dead honey bees and speculation are about equal in value.


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## alleyyooper (Apr 22, 2005)

We lost a lot of bees last fall and winter our selves. We were in last summers drought zone and started feeding syrup July first. We fed the syrup right up till freeze up. I fully believe that syrup along just doesn;t have enough of what bees need to make it thru the winter. 

We sent a sample from a hive to the Beltsville Maryland USDA Bee lab and the results were the bees starved. Lots of sugar in cells around them too.

To know for sure what killed the bees send a sample to the USDA bee lab. Blameing and pointing fingers doesn't prove squat.

 Al


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## copperkid3 (Mar 18, 2005)

haypoint said:


> You are right, most corn seed is coated with either a fungicide or an insecticide prior to planting in the ground. Don't see many bees digging up seed corn.
> What "stuff" that is EXTREMLEY toxic are you talking about? Insecticide applied on seed corn is not systemic. Perhaps you are believing that GM Corn with Bt effects bees? I think the "magic" you refer to is fictional.
> Some believe bee collapse is caused by a combination of stress, mites, weather fluctuations and diseases. For others it is Monsanto's fault while others blame George Bush.
> 
> Experienced bee keepers routinely lose hives. Been happening for centuries. Pound for pound, dead honey bees and speculation are about equal in value.


* * * * * * * * * *
those who we trust and put in charge of our overall well-being,

I find it somewhat grievous that you either totally discount the studies 

done on the subject (and of which, the links were provided) or you were

too lazy to be bothered with even reading them! So which is it?

Does one have to "spoon-feed" it to you before you will stop playing 

the fool with sophmoric word games by implying that bees don't dig up

the seed to be exposed?!! That "stuff" (if you had read the links), 

is either a neonicotinoid insecticide called imidacloprid or clothianidin.

Those kind of insecticides, when applied to GMO seed, does have a systemic

ability to transmit this "poison stuff" into the pollen which is then gathered.

But the 'dust' alone that is coming out of the planter hoppers should be

cause alone to be concerned that the environment is being "poisoned".


Found at levels 700,000 times a bee&#8217;s lethal dosage

Scientists at Purdue University documented major adverse impacts from the insecticide clothianidin (product name &#8220;Poncho&#8221 on honey bee health. The study found that bees are exposed to clothianidin and other pesticides throughout the foraging period. Researchers found extremely high levels of clothianidin&#8212;as high as 700,000 times a bee&#8217;s lethal dosage&#8212;in seed planter exhaust material. It was found in foraging areas long after treated seed had been planted and in dead bees near hives in Indiana. It was also found in pollen collected by bees and stored in the hive. The study raises questions about the long-term survival of this major pollinator.
&#8220;This research should nail the coffin lid shut on clothianidin,&#8221; says Laurel Hopwood, Sierra Club&#8217;s chairwoman of the Genetic Engineering Action Team. &#8220;Despite numerous attempts by the beekeeping industry and conservation organizations to persuade the EPA to ban clothianidin, the EPA has failed to protect the food supply for the American people.&#8221; 


You've already gone on record that you're not a bee expert, but in the next

breath, you start postulating, "Experienced beekeepers lose hives. Been

happening for centuries. Pound for pound, dead honeybees and speculation

are about equal in value". The 'problem' with that theory, is that scientific studies

have been done showing conclusive evidence that negates your assertion.

What are we to make of these two statements then? That you don't know what

you're talking about and are simply blowing that proverbial smoke up our kilts,

or you simply refuse to examine the evidence before you because Bayer wouldn't

like you then? I've been keeping bees for just over 45 years and have lost a few

colonies in that time period, but it wasn't until the last 10 years or so, that it has

literally been a struggle to stay ahead of the game. A losing one at that.

Plenty of honey left on (in some cases, haven't even harvested ANY honey) and

the bees still can't even make it into winter . . . they have dwindled down to

nothing and simply disappeared! Others go through the winter in great shape 

and then come spring . . .will go out foraging and fail to return . . . same results; 

a well-provisioned hive, but no onei s living there. What's changed in the environment?


There's always been corn planted around my place, but now we have a different type

that is treated on the seed with a highly toxic insecticide AND has been genetically modified as well.

I've seen the results of beekeepers who transport their hives out of the "killing

fields" each year and those who don't. THE RESULTS ARE ASTOUNDING!!!


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## simi-steading (Sep 27, 2012)

I happened on this article yesterday and figured it's relevant for this topic... 

At least in Europe, they are seriously considering it is pesticides and weed killers, so they are willing to do some studying and a short period ban to find out.. Unlike here in the US where Unkle just keeps on denying everything their corporate friends want them to deny.. However in this, the US us saying there may be reason to believe pestacides are part of the problem.. 

I do believe there are several things at work at once with this, but I do also believe pesticides are a huge part of the impact.. 

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs...g-the-u-s-and-europe-have-different-theories/



*Recent studies have found that neonicotinoids can adversely affect bee health, though there are still doubters. (One key question is whether lab results in this area are applicable to the real world.) Here&#8217;s how an overview in Nature puts it: &#8220;a growing body of research suggests that sublethal exposure to the pesticides in nectar and pollen may be harming bees too &#8212; by disrupting their ability to gather pollen, return to their hives and reproduce.&#8221; But other scientists insist &#8220;there is insufficient evidence to implicate these compounds.&#8221;
Even so, the European Commission is putting in place a two-year ban so that officials can review the evidence on the topic and &#8220;take into account relevant scientific and technical developments.*

Here's another part I want to point out in this.. and in pointing out, I want to note that Monsanto now has the largest bee research facility in the US... So I would imagine a lot of this research they are talking about is coming from them... Can't say for sure though.. BUT, it is the fox watching the hen house.. and 5 years???

One guy was doing a lot of research and had over 12 years of data. The state walked in an wiped out all his bees and data... He just happened to be real colse to Monsanto's headquarters in St. Louis.. go figure.... Also, right after that seizure, is when Monsanto got into the bee research business.. 

_*As such, U.S. regulators aren&#8217;t ready to ban pesticides the way Europe just did. The EPA is slowly conducting a review on the topic that &#8220;should be completed in five years.&#8221; Over at the Hill, Julian Hattem got this quote from an agency official:
&#8220;As a matter of policy, we let the science lead our regulatory decision-making, and we want to make sure that we make accurate and appropriate regulatory decisions as opposed to things that could lead to meaningful societal cost without any benefit whatsoever,&#8221; said Jim Jones, acting EPA assistant administrator for chemical safety and pollution prevention.*_

Here's an article on Monsanto buying out the leading bee research company in the US.. 


*Now that Beeologics is owned and controlled by Monsanto, the company is sure to completely avoid dealing with the true causes of CCD and IAPV as they pertain to Monsanto's crop technologies -- GMOs and their chemical counterparts. So going into the future, it seems expected that Beeologics will come up with "scientific breakthroughs" that deny any link between CCD and GMO technologies, and instead blame mystery pathogens and other factors that require more chemicals to eliminate.

According to Anthony Gucciardi at Activist Post, Beeologics has also long had a cozy relationship with the U.S. Department of Agriculture (USDA), which is convenient for Monsanto. The USDA, in fact, considers Beeologics to be one of the foremost bee research organizations in the world, as does the USDA's Agricultural Research Service (ARS), the mainstream media and "leading entomologists" worldwide, according to the company.

Learn more: http://www.naturalnews.com/035688_Monsanto_honey_bees_colony_collapse.html#ixzz2TU3q8pwf*


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## doodlemom (Apr 4, 2006)

The early honeybees would drink from puddles under my rabbit cages. Who knows what other puddles they find. I do not raise bees.


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## DarleneJ (Jan 29, 2012)

doodlemom said:


> The early honeybees would drink from puddles under my rabbit cages. Who knows what other puddles they find. I do not raise bees.


Our neighbors pool would be a big puddle. We provide our bees with water and a salt lick so they (hopefully) don't interfere with our neighbor's pool enjoyment!


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