# Copper Sulfate for Poultry Pests??



## aart

I've read this info here in several threads, can't find it again in search so thought I'd start a new thread to consolidate this info...and make it easier for others (and probably me...lol) to find in the future.

What I remember is that copper sulfate in the blue crystals can be dissolved in the chickens water to eradicate both internal worms and external parasites.

Can't remember:

Brand Name?

Best place to buy small amounts? (my mill sells it in 50# bags for pond treatments)

Exact dosage?

Duration of dosage?

Repetition of dosage?

What pests will it kill?

Will it work for treatment of an infestation or just prevention?

Withdrawal of eggs and/or meat?



That covers the details that come to mind for me, but please add anything else that I may have overlooked. 
Thanks in advance!


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## Cyngbaeld

Small amounts can sometimes be purchased on ebay or amazon. No particular brand name. It is sometimes sold in hardware stores as root killer. As long as it is pure copper sulfate it is ok in the concentrations recommended. 
1/4 tsp plus splash of vinegar per gallon of water, each and every day. Do not use a galvanized waterer for this.
No withdrawal period.
Prevents/treats blackhead in turkeys, prevents/treats any pest that sucks blood.
Safe if the goats get into the treated water, but keep sheep away from it.


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## aart

Thanks for responding Cyngbaeld.

A few clarifications please?

So you give it to them constantly in their water source?

Is the vinegar necessary or an optional additional remedy?
Active ACV (with mother) the type of vinegar or any kind?

TIA


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## chickenista

It has become hot stuff.
You can get it now through all of the major hatcheries and poultry product catalogs and in most TSCs.
A lot of it is acified CS, so no need to add vinegar.

I buy it (non-acified) from my local mom and pop's garden center.
I pay $8/lb.

In the old texts of farming books it is referred to as 'blue stone'.


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## aart

chickenista said:


> It has become hot stuff.
> You can get it now through all of the major hatcheries and poultry product catalogs and in most TSCs.
> A lot of it is acified CS, so no need to add vinegar.
> 
> I buy it (non-acified) from my local mom and pop's garden center.
> I pay $8/lb.
> 
> In the old texts of farming books it is referred to as 'blue stone'.


Thanks chickenista. 

What dosage and duration of dosage do you use?

Do you add vinegar and if so what kind and ratio?


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## aart

aart said:


> Thanks for responding Cyngbaeld.
> 
> A few clarifications please?
> 
> So you give it to them constantly in their water source?
> 
> Is the vinegar necessary or an optional additional remedy?
> Active ACV (with mother) type of vinegar or any kind?
> 
> TIA


Cyngbaeld answered this query via PM and gave permission for me to post her response:

Give it constantly at that low dose. If you give it less frequently it would need a higher dose level and they won't drink it as readily. The vinegar acidifies and keeps the copper in suspension better. Doesn't matter what kind you use. Cheap white vinegar is fine.


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## aart

chickensista uses this formula:

'We do 2 TBS of CS dissolved in a quart jar and sometimes we add a splash of vinegar, but sometimes we just use warmer water to dissolve it and we go with about 1-2TBS (of above solution) per gallon and we let it run for 7-10 days. We do it twice a year as a rule...'


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## aart

I'm rather surprised that with the experience on this forum that their has been such little input on this subject....even if it's just someone who tells me I'm nuts(and why).


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## aart

Bumping again...still hopeful for some feedback.


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## Sumatra

aart said:


> I'm rather surprised that with the experience on this forum that their has been such little input on this subject....even if it's just someone who tells me I'm nuts(and why).


Probably because not many people use it? Wazine, valbazen, and flubenvet are the most common wormers for chickens. There's also DE, pumpkin seeds, and black walnut hull tincture for those who prefer natural remedies. I've never heard of copper sulphate for anything more than it's use as a fungicide before.


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## aart

Sumatra said:


> Probably because not many people use it? Wazine, valbazen, and flubenvet are the most common wormers for chickens. There's also DE, pumpkin seeds, and black walnut hull tincture for those who prefer natural remedies. I've never heard of copper sulphate for anything more than it's use as a fungicide before.


Thanks for your response Sumatra...I was looking for something that would hit the innards and the outtards with no egg withdrawal. Maybe the theory is too good to be true.


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## chickenista

I am surprised as well.

I have never had a poultry critter with worms, ever.
I know that they can get them, but have just never seen it for myself and I butcher a lot of birds every year.

I don't use the Copper Sulfate for worms, I use it for the stupid, horrible, annoying dang mites.
Wild birds fly into our barn and there is nothing that we are ever going to be able to reasonably do to stop them.
And they fly onto trees above the dust baths etc..

Before copper sulfate we tried everything.. DE, Sevin, Pyrmethrin (or whatever).. every single thing you can try.
I spent hours painting out roosts and nest boxes with oils of all kinds, them stronger stuff and it never slowed them down.

Now, with Copper Sulfate, there is not a single itty bitty mite anywhere on any bird.
No leg mites.
No any other kind of mite.
Yay!!

We just finished our spring run of the Copper Sulfate.
No fuss.
No muss.
No dusting of 200 birds every night.
No trouble at all.

Happy, pretty birds!!

I will never stop using it. Ever. I love it sooo much.


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## Caprice Acres

Interesting you use it for external parasites with success. I can't find any documentation showing it's efficacy on external parasites and I hesitate to believe anecdotal evidence usually... I suppose it's cheap and easy, it probably can't hurt to try. We have galvanized waterers here though, but when we get a bucket with nipples set up perhaps we could give it a try. 

We've got leg mites here but there's no way every bird is getting individual treatment - we have lots of chickens (no idea the number) and they free range all over the property, roosting wherever they desire (and pooping there too... :/) I considered doing something about it when we move all the birds into an enclosed coop hopefully this year and stop free ranging - we're loosing too many birds to predators. Until we try to catch everything, this isn't really feasible though, lol. Anyway, besides the appearance of the legs, we cannot really see anything else effected by the mites and so haven't made any attempts at curing them.


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## aart

Dona, thanks for chiming in.

chickenista...how long have you been using this regime?

What about lice?


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## obleo+6

I LIKE this idea...I'm so tired of spraying the coop 3-4 times a year, I could just spit!

So sent DH to the co-op and he brought home: AquaVet Copper 
Sulfate Algae Control 99% Copper Sulfate...my question is, is this "the pure copper sulfate" you all are talking about?

I have cyngbaeld's recipe, so if this is it, then I'm heading for the coop ...as soon as I hear back from someone about this. I'm kinda new to this, so please bear with me and thanks a heap!


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## aart

obleo+6....All the copper sulfate packages I've examined have said 99% Copper Sulfate Pentahydrate. In my research I learned from a chemist that the pentahydrate means it dissolves in water. I think the 1% 'other' is probably a CYA for any possible foreign materials. It is a clear blue crystal. Sold mostly as a root killer in plumbing pipes or a pond algae killer.


I am going to start chickenista's 10 day regime today to treat lice and leg mites.
Will post here to document results.


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## obleo+6

aart said:


> obleo+6....All the copper sulfate packages I've examined have said 99% Copper Sulfate Pentahydrate. In my research I learned from a chemist that the pentahydrate means it dissolves in water. I think the 1% 'other' is probably a CYA for any possible foreign materials. It is a clear blue crystal. Sold mostly as a root killer in plumbing pipes or a pond algae killer.
> 
> 
> I am going to start chickenista's 10 day regime today to treat lice and leg mites.
> Will post here to document results.



THANK YOU! That's what dh picked up and as soon as I have enough coffee in me, I'm gonna turn the "mite castle" back into "the chicken domain"!

YAA HOO! No more spraying and catching chickens and cleaning and scrubbing...I think as I treat them, I'll give the coop one more good cleaning just to be on the safe side. Wish I had pine needles cuz it's a dirt floor, oh well, THIS CS alone is a lifesaver.

Thanks again , all of you, for the information.


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## Melnic

Cyngbaeld said:


> Small amounts can sometimes be purchased on ebay or amazon. No particular brand name. It is sometimes sold in hardware stores as root killer. As long as it is pure copper sulfate it is ok in the concentrations recommended.
> 1/4 tsp plus splash of vinegar per gallon of water, each and every day. Do not use a galvanized waterer for this.
> No withdrawal period.
> Prevents/treats blackhead in turkeys, prevents/treats any pest that sucks blood.
> Safe if the goats get into the treated water, but keep sheep away from it.



So does this mean it would help with Mosquitos?? They are fierce here right now!


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## bluefish

So how long does it take to work? I've tried chickenista's method once a month for 3 months now to try and get a handle on the mites, but have had no luck so far. Maybe I'll try cyngbaeld's method. I've just been doing the survival of the fittest method and culling everyone who seemed to have real issues with the mites, but only because nothing else was working any better.


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## chickenista

Cyngbaeld and I have the same routine, only I use a bit stronger solution, I think.
She taught me.
And she will have a place in my heart forever because of it.


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## aart

aart said:


> Cyngbaeld answered this query via PM and gave permission for me to post her response:
> 
> _*Give it constantly at that low dose.*_ If you give it less frequently it would need a higher dose level and they won't drink it as readily. The vinegar acidifies and keeps the copper in suspension better. Doesn't matter what kind you use. Cheap white vinegar is fine.





chickenista said:


> Cyngbaeld and I have the same routine, only I use a bit stronger solution, I think.
> ....


Cyngbaeld gives her CS dose constantly, 24/7/365.


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## hugh

Cyngbaeld said:


> Small amounts can sometimes be purchased on ebay or amazon. No particular brand name. It is sometimes sold in hardware stores as root killer. As long as it is pure copper sulfate it is ok in the concentrations recommended.
> 1/4 tsp plus splash of vinegar per gallon of water, each and every day. Do not use a galvanized waterer for this.
> No withdrawal period.
> Prevents/treats blackhead in turkeys, prevents/treats any pest that sucks blood.
> Safe if the goats get into the treated water, but keep sheep away from it.


Hopefully this will work for buffalo knats . Its that time of year.


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## Melnic

aart...any report on how it's going/progress?


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## Lazy J

You are playing with fire by adding copper sulfate to water. If you overdose the chicken you will force mineral deficiencies in other minerals due to the lack of transfer across the brush border membrane of the intestines. Many minerals are carried by the same transport mechanisms, if you overwhelm the system with one mineral, copper in this case, very little of other minerals will be absorbed.


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## aart

Melnic said:


> aart...any report on how it's going/progress?


Today is day 10, last day of treatment. I will go in tonight or tomorrow night and check for any activity of the lice that were my main reason for treating. I have seen no problems so far with the treatment....eating, drinking, eliminating, laying have all held consistent with behaviors before treatment began.





Lazy J said:


> You are playing with fire by adding copper sulfate to water. If you overdose the chicken you will force mineral deficiencies in other minerals due to the lack of transfer across the brush border membrane of the intestines. Many minerals are carried by the same transport mechanisms, if you overwhelm the system with one mineral, copper in this case, very little of other minerals will be absorbed.


I realize that this is an unconventional treatment based on the anecdotal experience of 2 long time poultry keepers. Any treatment can be lethally toxic if overdosed. It was my risk to take, I was very careful in measuring the dosages and will take full responsibility with clear transparency reported on this thread for any negative consequences it may create.


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## aart

OK, got out to check chicken butts last night, 4 days after completion of treatment.....and found no creepy crawlies!

There are still some lice egg clusters on the feather bases around some vents, no clue as to whether they are viable eggs or just remnants left over. The 10 day treatment should have covered killing any hatchlings. Will check again in a week or so to be sure and report my findings then back here on this thread, but looks good so far.

To clarify, I treated because I saw lots of live lice and lots of eggs around the vent on a rooster I harvested for meat and also see signs of scaly leg mites - some severe.....I had not checked the live chickens for lice before treatment, tho I could see some egg clusters on a shed feather found in the coop so was not surprised to see them on the rooster.

Only time will tell if the treatment got the scaly leg mites too, not sure how long it takes for healthy scales will grow in....but I imagine it will be weeks, if ever.


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## snaffle

So glad I came across this post. I used copper sulfate for years in the swimming pool to control algae and our pool water was always crystal clear. Never had lice before last summer and have dusted with sevin and de a couple of times. Have been concerned about the instructions that say to dust the entire coop when my chickens have run of the barn during the day time.

Gonna get me some copper sulfate... 10 days in a row right? Plastic water font...

I can understand the earlier post about messing up the minerals.My thoughts are that 10 days might not be enough to throw the system out of wack... I can always ad some minerals and vitamins for a few days.


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## aart

aart said:


> chickensista uses this formula:
> 
> 'We do 2 TBS of CS dissolved in a quart jar and sometimes we add a splash of vinegar, but sometimes we just use warmer water to dissolve it and we go with about 1-2TBS (of above solution) per gallon and we let it run for 7-10 days. We do it twice a year as a rule...'





snaffle said:


> ......Gonna get me some copper sulfate... 10 days in a row right? Plastic water font........


I used chickenista's dosage above for 10 days....I added a splash of live ACV to the solution mixture and also another splash in the waterer, helped keep it suspended.....yes, plastic waterer because of the ACV. I only give half gallon of water a day because that's what they drink (9 birds) so added 1TBS of solution and splash of ACV everyday. I also only mixed up a pint of the solution just because of volume needed...could have mixed _alot_ less.


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## chickenista

I am glad that it is working well for you.
Scaly leg mites were the bane of my existence. The bane! I say.

Not any more.
I painted the roosts and nest boxes in oils, sprinkled all sorts of stufgf everywhere, dusted 200 freaking birds repeatedly..nothing worked.

LOVE the copper sulfate and haven't seen a parasite in years.
It's awesome!


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## aart

chickenista said:


> I am glad that it is working well for you.
> Scaly leg mites were the bane of my existence. The bane! I say.
> 
> Not any more.
> I painted the roosts and nest boxes in oils, sprinkled all sorts of stufgf everywhere, dusted 200 freaking birds repeatedly..nothing worked.
> 
> LOVE the copper sulfate and haven't seen a parasite in years.
> It's awesome!


How long did it take for their legs to look good again?


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## chickenista

Oh.. their legs may never look right again.
The scarring will keep the scales jutting outward.

But you can try a deep moisturizer of some sort.
Don't just glop oil onto them though.
You could go with some coconut oil/butter, some shea butter etc..

I think a good healing salve would work well too.
Like the one I sell. hahahahhaaa
but really.. a good healing salve may help the irritated tissues etc...


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## motdaugrnds

This is a very interesting thread. Thanks for starting it Aart.

I use to have a lot of scaly legs in my chicks, lice and mites. (Have always only had small flock.) Used mixture of kerosene and mineral oil, soaking all legs 15 minutes each evening for about 5 days. This killed the insects and let the scales receed.

Then I "accidentally" found another easier method to tend to "external" lice, mites, etc. fowl get. I had had about 2 tons of "agricultural lime" dumped next to my garden as I learned years ago this was good for making muddy areas solid. All my fowl LOVED TO FEATHER DUST IN THIS; and since then I've not had any external parasites. Now, I have the entire chicken "pen" layered (3" deep) with this AL.

Still I've been using the more common meds for "internal" parasites; however, I'm going to get some copper sulfate next time I'm in town.


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## aart

chickenista said:


> _*Oh.. their legs may never look right again.*_
> _*The scarring will keep the scales jutting outward.*_
> 
> But you can try a deep moisturizer of some sort.
> Don't just glop oil onto them though.
> You could go with some coconut oil/butter, some shea butter etc..
> 
> I think a good healing salve would work well too.
> Like the one I sell. hahahahhaaa
> but really.. a good healing salve may help the irritated tissues etc...


Thanks chickenista.....that's kind of what I thought.





motdaugrnds said:


> This is a very interesting thread. _*Thanks for starting it Aart.*_
> 
> I use to have a lot of scaly legs in my chicks, lice and mites. (Have always only had small flock.) Used mixture of kerosene and mineral oil, soaking all legs 15 minutes each evening for about 5 days. This killed the insects and let the scales receed.
> 
> Then I "accidentally" found another easier method to tend to "external" lice, mites, etc. fowl get. I had had about 2 tons of "agricultural lime" dumped next to my garden as I learned years ago this was good for making muddy areas solid. All my fowl LOVED TO FEATHER DUST IN THIS; and since then I've not had any external parasites. Now, I have the entire chicken "pen" layered (3" deep) with this AL.
> 
> Still I've been using the more common meds for "internal" parasites; however, I'm going to get some copper sulfate next time I'm in town.


You're Welcome. 

Yeah, kerosene was not something I wanted to use in my coop, let alone use every day for a week. I tried the CS because it was easy (plain and simple) no withdrawal and 2 long term anecdotal experiences cited that it was an all encompassing internal/external treatment.

Not sure if my chooks have/had any detrimental amounts of internal parasites, haven't done fecals and don't really see any symptoms...did have a couple who had loose watery stools, evidence seen on roosting boards, and I have not seen that since the treatment. What caused that, or if the CS took care of it, I have no idea.

The only real evidence I can cite from my experience is that it killed the lice and apparently did not cause any harm to the birds.


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## bluefish

I've used boiled linseed oil and homemade pine salve (not at the same time) successfully for leg mites and the legs went back to normal within a few weeks. I just thought they'd go back to normal once the mites were gone, maybe it was the oil. If so, any sort of oil or ointment should work.


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## Melnic

At what age do you think you could start to use the CS treatment? And would you adjust the dosage for younger chooks? For example, mine are 9 weeks. Thanks!


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## Cyngbaeld

Same constant low dose. They will drink the appropriate amount for body size, which is why medications are frequently added to drinking water instead of being bolused or drenched. Start whenever they go to the coop or outside on the ground.


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## chickenista

We only use it young on our poults before sale if the buyers have never had turkeys on their land before or have had Blackhead problems in the past.

I sell (sold.. since I sold the business this spring) the poults at 1 month-6weeks old.
And they are fine with Copper Sulfate at that age.


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## aart

Thanks Cyngbaeld and chickenista for chiming in.

I have young birds too, did not treat them on this round as they hadn't shown any signs of lice infestation and were separate at the time from the main flock. Some were hatched here, some were hatchery chicks...but 2 were from local breeder, NPIP but still... there's a chance they might be carrying something.


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## aart

Update....checked a few chicken butts last night, 1 month post treatment...no lice but 1 of the 3 I checked had alot of what I think are mites, smaller and redder than the lice I treated for. The other 2 I saw nothing...no moving bugs and no lice eggs clusters on feather shafts. 

Very frustrating as I have no one to help and I can't see very well any more.

Not sure if I'll treat with the CS again or need something different for mites as well as treating the coop itself. Crap!


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## VA Susan

motdaugrnds said:


> This is a very interesting thread. Thanks for starting it Aart.
> 
> I use to have a lot of scaly legs in my chicks, lice and mites. (Have always only had small flock.) Used mixture of kerosene and mineral oil, soaking all legs 15 minutes each evening for about 5 days. This killed the insects and let the scales receed.
> 
> Then I "accidentally" found another easier method to tend to "external" lice, mites, etc. fowl get. I had had about 2 tons of "agricultural lime" dumped next to my garden as I learned years ago this was good for making muddy areas solid. All my fowl LOVED TO FEATHER DUST IN THIS; and since then I've not had any external parasites. Now, I have the entire chicken "pen" layered (3" deep) with this AL.
> 
> Still I've been using the more common meds for "internal" parasites; however, I'm going to get some copper sulfate next time I'm in town.


Thanks for the information, motdaugrnds.
I got some agricultural lime today and put some into several places where they take their dust baths. The man at the feed store sells truckloads of lime. I got about 50 pounds of it in a feed sack and he gave it to me for free. It looks like sand but he said that it's lime. Hope it works. 
I've used the copper sulfate too but since our chickens free range and can get their own water from the creek, it doesn't work so well for us except in the winter when they are confined.


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## aart

Answering the quoted question from here



partndn said:


> So aart - I see from the 2014 spring thread you posted the CS did the trick for lice, but you thought you saw mites on one after that? That was your last post on that thread I think..
> How did that turn out?
> 
> Same treatment? or what did you do and how did it go?


I did not treat specifically for the mites I saw on the one bird, I watched the bird for any overt health issues and she seemed fine. Kinda of a crap shoot but that was my decision.
Decided to do the 10 day CS regime twice a year, Spring and Fall. When I butchered that particular bird this spring, she had no lice or body mites on her...except scaly leg mites.

The CS has not totally eliminated the scaly leg mites, on some it seemed to work and and leg scales improved but not quickly, others it seems to work partially and a few not at all. Had a broody with them pretty bad and now her remaining pullets have it. Am doing the CS regime right now and after that is over am going going to treat legs directly, probably with petroleum jelly, bag balm or some kind of suffocation method.


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## aoconnor1

Thanks for updating this post Aart. I have what I believe are mites in both my barn and coop. I have a lot of sparrows that fly into my coop during the day when my coop doors are open. Nothing I can do about it. I also have them in my barn rafters, again nothing I can do about it. I am hoping to try the lime, that would be good if it helped. I also will try CS in my water. I hate the little monsters that make my and my chickens flesh crawl.


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## yellowlab2

We followed the formula posted by Chikenista, 2 tbsp in a mason jar with some acv, then 2 tbsp/gal of the mason jar to waterer for ten days. Lice still there. We had a period of intense rain duning the first part, so I let it run another 5 days. Lice still there. Am I doing it wrong?

I really would like to avoid chemicals if I can. Please help.


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## aart

yellowlab2 said:


> We followed the formula posted by Chikenista, 2 tbsp in a mason jar with some acv, then 2 tbsp/gal of the mason jar to waterer for ten days. Lice still there. We had a period of intense rain duning the first part, so I let it run another 5 days. Lice still there. Am I doing it wrong?
> 
> I really would like to avoid chemicals if I can. Please help.


I assume the 'mason jar' was a quart jar? If so, then that sounds right to me.
The rain _will_ dilute the treatment as they drink rain water if it puddles instead of the treatment....so extending the treatment was a good choice to get 10 full days with no other water that the treated water. 

Are they confined with _no_ other source of water?
Did you mix a fresh gallon(s) every day?
Did you add a splash of ACV to the daily fresh batch to help keep it in suspension?
Did you use a plastic waterer?(not sure this makes any difference, but it's what I used)
Don't know what to tell you other than that's what worked for me.

I _think_ that Cyngbaeld uses it 24/7/364 at a lesser concentration...you'd have to read back and see, maybe that's something you could try.


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## Agriculture

yellowlab2 said:


> We followed the formula posted by Chikenista, 2 tbsp in a mason jar with some acv, then 2 tbsp/gal of the mason jar to waterer for ten days. Lice still there. We had a period of intense rain duning the first part, so I let it run another 5 days. Lice still there. Am I doing it wrong?
> 
> I really would like to avoid chemicals if I can. Please help.


Um.... copper sulfate IS a chemical!

People are feeding their animals a product that is used as a root killer, with who knows what other added substances, but they are afraid to use conventional medications and insecticides which are proven to be safe and effective after years of scientific study and use. I don't get it.

Those who think that they are safe because there is no withdrawal time for copper sulfate are using flawed logic. There is no withdrawal time simply because it isn't approved for use in chickens, so the studies have not been done to determine a proper withdrawal time. That is the only way that a withdrawal time is established. To put it into perspective, drain cleaner has no withdrawal time in chickens. It will kill mites, I guarantee it. But I don't suggest that you use it in your chickens.

Agricultural lime has no special properties to kill mites that any other powdery substance does not. Any dry powder will help to dessicate mites and keep them down to a manageable level in most healthy well managed birds. That is why chickens dust bathe in sand or dry soil. Same affect as agricultural lime, or any other powdery substance.

DE, ACV and now copper sulfate. Just another in a long list of natural, holistic, herbal or other potions that people want to believe are safer and have some magical properties that modern medicines do not. It's all hocus pocus.


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## yellowlab2

Copper and sulfur are both naturally occurring compounds. Permethrin and such is what I'm trying to avoid. Thanks for the post, but I'm looking for a solution, not a scolding.


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## Agriculture

Crude oil and arsenic are both naturally occuring compounds. They will kill mites and they have no withdrawal time either. Simply because something is "natural" does not make it safe or effective, no matter how much someone wants to wish it so.

It's a waste of time I'm sure to try to explain how simple chemestry works by often combining two or more benign substances into something which is extremely dangerous. The opposite can also be true, but the point is that relying on hersay, faith, anecdotal evidence or word of mouth from questionable sources with little factual knowledge of their subject is a dangerous thing. It is mainly why there are federal laws which prohibit the use of many substances by untrained people in a manner other than that which is listed on the lable. There can be dangerous consequences for animals and people who eat their products, and they are not always immediately obvious. I don't have a problem with anyone who wants to play Russian Roulette with themselves, but when they start feeding their children, or selling products to others which are the results of their untested experiments, I think that it's wrong.


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## yellowlab2

aart said:


> I assume the 'mason jar' was a quart jar? If so, then that sounds right to me.
> The rain _will_ dilute the treatment as they drink rain water if it puddles instead of the treatment....so extending the treatment was a good choice to get 10 full days with no other water that the treated water.
> 
> Are they confined with _no_ other source of water?
> Did you mix a fresh gallon(s) every day?
> Did you add a splash of ACV to the daily fresh batch to help keep it in suspension?
> Did you use a plastic waterer?(not sure this makes any difference, but it's what I used)
> Don't know what to tell you other than that's what worked for me.
> 
> I _think_ that Cyngbaeld uses it 24/7/364 at a lesser concentration...you'd have to read back and see, maybe that's something you could try.


Yes, quart jar, yes they are confined with no other source of water, No, I mixed a five gallon waterer, no I didn't add ACV every day, but when I pulled the mason jar from the shop to make the next five gallons there was no sediment, and the mixture was uniformly blue, yes its a plastic waterer.
I have also cleaned the coop as well as I can twice now. Once at the onset of the CS treatment, and again yesterday. Spread DE both times. Played merry hob catching all 27 chickens and dusted them as well.


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## aart

yellowlab2 said:


> Yes, quart jar, yes they are confined with no other source of water, No, I mixed a five gallon waterer, no I didn't add ACV every day, but when I pulled the mason jar from the shop to make the next five gallons there was no sediment, and the mixture was uniformly blue, yes its a plastic waterer.
> I have also cleaned the coop as well as I can twice now. Once at the onset of the CS treatment, and again yesterday. Spread DE both times. Played merry hob catching all 27 chickens and dusted them as well.


I think you need to mix a fresh waterer everyday. Was easy for me as my flock drinks just under gallon each day. I used just a splash of ACV in each daily gallon, keeps the CS in suspension. I never dusted the birds or the coop with anything, I only use DE in the bottoms of the nests under the straw bedding.


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## yellowlab2

Thanks aart, I'll try that.


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## saritamae

Aart, I just stumbled on this thread. Thank you for starting it! 
Im having a real problem with scaly leg mites also. I'm actually having similar problems - some of NY chickens look perfectly fine, and others just look terrible. I wonder if some are just more susceptible than others? Now that you've been using it for a year, do you plan on sticking with your twice-yearly treatments, or are you leaning toward year round maintenance dosing? I'm going to head to the feed store this afternoon and gather the necessary supplies.


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## aart

saritamae said:


> Aart, I just stumbled on this thread. Thank you for starting it!
> Im having a real problem with scaly leg mites also. I'm actually having similar problems - some of NY chickens look perfectly fine, and others just look terrible. I wonder if some are just more susceptible than others? Now that you've been using it for a year, do you plan on sticking with your twice-yearly treatments, or are you leaning toward year round maintenance dosing? I'm going to head to the feed store this afternoon and gather the necessary supplies.


Am going to stick to twice a year for now...but think I need to do something else about the leg mites, not sure what yet-probably vegetable oil. Just finished the spring round of the CS and am going to wait until I do a cull harvest of my older hens in a few weeks before treating for the leg mites. I think the reason some have it and some don't is because they don't _easily_ spread. Broody had them so her chicks do too. Some of the ones who had it a year+ ago, still have just a few raised scales, but the rest of the leg cleared up. It takes a long time(2-3-4 months?) for the scales to flatten out. I wonder if the leg scales 'molt' per say...or are replaced somehow?


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## aart

Well, the fall application seems to be a fail. Bummer.

Had not checked for pests prior, but found lice and maybe mites, at a vent check while banding some birds less than a week after 10 day CS regime was concluded.

So got out the pyrethrum dust and dosed their butts with that.
Not all of the 5 birds banded birds had them, but I dusted them all anyway and will dust the other 10.


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## farmerDale

We used to always use Copper Sulfate in our dugout to kill algae. Trouble is, it not only kills algae, it kills pretty much all life in the pond. If you have fish in the pond, it is not recommended. I personally would certainly NOT use it on my hens ever. I could however, spray glyphosate on my dugout and not kill the fish or other aquatic creatures.

Yet what are most scared of? 


A bit of food for thought.


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## aart

farmerDale said:


> ....
> 
> what are you[sic] most scared of?
> ....


This thread turning into a nasty, ranting war on chemical use.


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## Sumatra

aart said:


> This thread turning into a nasty, ranting war on chemical use.


Yes, it is. Unfortunately even the best of suggestions will have it's critics, much less a lesser-known one like this. You hang around chicken people enough, you'll find people acting the same way over ACV as they do with CS here. 

IMO, it's good you want something healthy enough to avoid egg withdrawal times, but after battling this for over a year and a half, it's perhaps time to move on to another method that's more permanent?


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## farmerDale

aart said:


> This thread turning into a nasty, ranting war on chemical use.


I do not think my post was either nasty or ranting???

Just stating facts about the dangers of copper sulfate is all. A quick google tells about how toxic it is. I dunno???


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## aart

Sumatra said:


> Yes, it is. Unfortunately even the best of suggestions will have it's critics, much less a lesser-known one like this. You hang around chicken people enough, you'll find people acting the same way over ACV as they do with CS here.
> 
> IMO, it's good you want something healthy enough to avoid egg withdrawal times, but after battling this for over a year and a half, it's perhaps time to move on to another method that's more permanent?


Yes, thus the application of pyrethrum dust. Was just following up on my use of it for anyone else who was researching anecdotal experiences. Has worked fine applied twice a year until now, knocked a bad infestation right out the first time. I believe this occurrence of lice is fairly new, there were very few egg clusters and now that I've inspected and dusted all 15 birds I've learned that they didn't all have them, only about 8-10 and some of those had very few bugs and no eggs. I will probably use the CS regime again in the future and continue to observe it's effectiveness and post about it in this thread.



farmerDale said:


> I do not think my post was either nasty or ranting???Just stating facts about the dangers of copper sulfate is all. A quick google tells about how toxic it is. I dunno???


No, your post wasn't nasty or ranting. Sorry, didn't mean to imply that, was the first thing that popped into my head in response to your 'fear' question, my apologies to you sir. I do know of it's toxicity and the ways it's used _and_ abused...just like any other chemical, synthetic or organic. Just don't want to start that debate/discussion here.


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