# Where are we, and where are we going?



## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

Treating our fellow human beings as individuals instead of treating them as members of groups is unnatural. Our brains evolved to think of people as members of groups; to trust and care for people who are like us and to be suspicious of people who are unlike us. Those traits had great survival value for human beings throughout millions of years of evolution. People who were trusting of outsiders were less likely to pass on their genes than people who were suspicious of them. People who were loyal to their tribe were more likely to pass on their genes than people who stood apart. 

The American experiment is fragile. It has always been fragile and always will be fragile because it is so extremely unnatural. ‘Unnatural’ in this context means in conflict with human nature. Jonah Goldberg has described the fragility of the American system by comparing it to a garden hacked out of a tropical jungle. A garden surrounded by jungle is unnatural. The gardeners must tend it with unremitting care lest the jungle return.









Identity crisis: how the politics of race will wreck America


Tens of millions of these people live in towns that have no black residents or just a few and issues of race haven’t impinged on their lives




spectatorworld.com


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

If we decide that our system for tending the garden needs to be replaced, and if the replacement should prove to be even slightly less devoted to keeping nature at bay, the garden will be reclaimed by jungle within a few decades.

The introduction of identity politics into that carefully crafted constitutional system does not simply distract us from warding off the jungle. It is the jungle, the primitive sense of ‘us against them’ pressing in upon the garden. It not only permits but insists that the power of the state be used to reward favored groups at the expense of everyone else.


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

HDRider said:


> insists that the power of the state be used to reward favored groups at the expense of everyone else.


This is why we are seeing the BLM, CRT, 1619 Project, The Alphabet People, all the identities being used to divide.


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

In 2001, Gallup’s pollsters began asking the question, ‘Would you say relations between whites and blacks are very good, somewhat good, somewhat bad, or very bad.’ *Seventy percent* of whites and *62* percent of blacks answered that they were either ‘very good’ or ‘somewhat good’. 

In 2008 those numbers were almost the same: 70 percent and 61 percent respectively. They improved slightly, standing at *72 percent* and *66* percent in 2013.

It was *46 percent* in 2020 — but the black number fell to *36* percent.


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

Rhetoric about white privilege and systemic racism coming from black opinion leaders has always seemed borderline suicidal. Blacks, constituting 13 percent of the population, are telling whites, 60 percent of the population, that they are racist, bad people, the cause of blacks’ problems, and they had better change their ways or else. 

Right or wrong, that rhetoric has been guaranteed to produce backlash by some portion of the 60 percent against the 13 percent. So far, this effect has been masked because the strategy has worked so well with white elites. Ordinarily, you can’t insult people into agreeing with you, but white guilt is a real thing. 

Meanwhile, many middle-class and working-class whites have not been insulted into agreement. They’re just insulted, and to their minds unfairly insulted.


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## MoonRiver (Sep 2, 2007)

While that is somewhat true, as humans developed agriculture and began living in cities, we developed the ability to live among strangers. As humans expanded trade to more distant places, they developed social tools, such as a handshake, to be able to establish understanding between peoples who looked different, had different customs, and spoke a different language.

In the US there is a common culture, but some are choosing to reject it. It has little to do with skin color as many native born blacks and blacks from many parts of the world assimilate very easily into American life. The problem seems to be more ideological and religious than racial.


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

First, the white backlash is occurring in the context of long-term erosion in the federal government’s legitimacy. Since 1958, the Gallup polling organization has periodically asked Americans how much they trust the federal government to do what is right. In 1958, 73 percent said ‘always’ or ‘most of the time’. Trust hit its high point in 1964, when that figure stood at 77 percent. 

Then it began to fall. By 1980, only 27 percent trusted the government to do what is right. That percentage rebounded to the low forties in the mid-80's, then fell to a new low, 19 percent, in 1994. It rebounded again, hitting a short-lived high of 54 percent just after 9/11. 

Then it plunged again, hitting another new low, 15 percent, in 2011. It has been in the 15- to 20 percent range ever since. A government that is distrusted by more than 80 percent of the citizens has a bipartisan legitimacy problem.


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

A fascinating article , and possibly quite prescient. 

_This essay is adapted from Charles Murray’s_ Facing Reality: Two Truths About Race in America_ (Encounter, $26). This article was originally published in _The Spectator_’s July 2021 World edition. _


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## Alice In TX/MO (May 10, 2002)

In Austin along North Lamar there is a significant community that is Hispanic. I shopped there today. No one spoke English. The grocery brands were mostly not from the United States. The music was wonderfully bouncy, and the lyrics in Spanish. The vibe of the whole area is Laredo or Quetzaltenango.

Not far from there is a Vietnamese community.

I went to New York City a couple of years ago and stayed in an Air B and B in a poor part of Manhattan. We went to a different ethnic community for shopping and meals every day. It was a fantastic trip!

The U.S. isn’t a melting pot. It’s a buffet.


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## GunMonkeyIntl (May 13, 2013)

HDRider said:


> Treating our fellow human beings as individuals instead of treating them as members of groups is unnatural. Our brains evolved to think of people as members of groups; to trust and care for people who are like us and to be suspicious of people who are unlike us. Those traits had great survival value for human beings throughout millions of years of evolution. People who were trusting of outsiders were less likely to pass on their genes than people who were suspicious of them. People who were loyal to their tribe were more likely to pass on their genes than people who stood apart.
> 
> The American experiment is fragile. It has always been fragile and always will be fragile because it is so extremely unnatural. ‘Unnatural’ in this context means in conflict with human nature. Jonah Goldberg has described the fragility of the American system by comparing it to a garden hacked out of a tropical jungle. A garden surrounded by jungle is unnatural. The gardeners must tend it with unremitting care lest the jungle return.
> 
> ...


While that probably is true, I think the US experiment set that paradigm on its heels. When you are an individual, you see others as individuals. When the core of your being is your belonging to a tribe, you let the tribe do a lot of your thinking for you, and you judge the members of other tribes as a whole.

Maybe that’s why some want so desperately to tear the US down; our fabric is the woven on the pattern of the individual. If there ever was a culture capable of casting off tribalism, racism, faithism and creedism, it is ours. We’re systemically anti-racist, and that is dangerous to those who want us to tribe-think.


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

I hope everyone reads that article. I tried to titillate with some snippets in hope it would pique your interest to read it.


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## Alice In TX/MO (May 10, 2002)

I am still shaking my head over the “common culture” idea expressed above. It is simply not true.


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## MoonRiver (Sep 2, 2007)

Alice In TX/MO said:


> In Austin along North Lamar there is a significant community that is Hispanic. I shopped there today. No one spoke English. The grocery brands were mostly not from the United States. The music was wonderfully bouncy, and the lyrics in Spanish. The vibe of the whole area is Laredo or Quetzaltenango.
> 
> Not far from there is a Vietnamese community.
> 
> ...


These are subcultures within the main culture, much as the Italians, the Irish, the Polish, etc. created subcultures within the US. People can easily move between a subculture and the main culture, so I would say it is both a melting pot and a buffet. The subculture provides a buffer zone for immigrants before they learn the language and culture.


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## Redlands Okie (Nov 28, 2017)

Alice In TX/MO said:


> In Austin along North Lamar there is a significant community that is Hispanic. I shopped there today. No one spoke English. The grocery brands were mostly not from the United States. The music was wonderfully bouncy, and the lyrics in Spanish. The vibe of the whole area is Laredo or Quetzaltenango.
> 
> Not far from there is a Vietnamese community.
> 
> ...


At least it used to be, more so than now. There has always been some racial issues. Now a days it seems to be more so, and the news and media just make it seem worse.


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

Alice In TX/MO said:


> I am still shaking my head over the “common culture” idea expressed above. It is simply not true.


Considering our, yours and mine, and most of the 330,000, 000 living in the USA; You do not think we have common dreams, common fears, common challenges, common laws, common governing documents, common wants and needs, etcetera, etcetera? How can that not be "common culture"?

We might keep kosher, or love smoked pork, but I would suggest we have much more in common culturally than we have as fundamental ideal differences.


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## Alice In TX/MO (May 10, 2002)

Based on my personal experience, I do not believe we have common culture.


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

I do


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## MoonRiver (Sep 2, 2007)

Alice In TX/MO said:


> Based on my personal experience, I do not believe we have common culture.


Sure we do. We watch the same tv shows, watch the same movies, go to k-12 schools, shop at Walmart, eat at McDonalds, have the same legal system, have the same rules for driving on roads, are all under the Constitution, etc.


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## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

MoonRiver said:


> Sure we do. We watch the same tv shows, watch the same movies, go to k-12 schools, shop at Walmart, eat at McDonalds, have the same legal system, have the same rules for driving on roads, are all under the Constitution, etc.


No we don't watch the same TV shows. A legal system is not a culture and neither is following rules on the road.


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

That would scare me


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## Lisa in WA (Oct 11, 2004)

HDRider said:


> Considering our, yours and mine, and most of the 330,000, 000 living in the USA; You do not think we have common dreams, common fears, common challenges, common laws, common governing documents, common wants and needs, etcetera, etcetera? How can that not be "common culture"?
> 
> We might keep kosher, or love smoked pork, but I would suggest we have much more in common culturally than we have as fundamental ideal differences.


I agree. I’ve lived all over this country (NW, SW, SE, NE, mid Atlantic and Midwest) and have visited every state. There are definitely subcultures but a common culture overall.


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## Lisa in WA (Oct 11, 2004)

painterswife said:


> No we don't watch the same TV shows. A legal system is not a culture and neither is following rules on the road.


You aren’t “we”. You watch British TV primarily because that’s part of your Canadian culture. 
There most certainly is an American culture.


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## SLFarmMI (Feb 21, 2013)

MoonRiver said:


> Sure we do. We watch the same tv shows, watch the same movies, go to k-12 schools, shop at Walmart, eat at McDonalds, have the same legal system, have the same rules for driving on roads, are all under the Constitution, etc.


No, we don't share a common religion, cuisine, social customs, traditions, artifacts, etc. all of which are part of what make up a culture. To illustrate the point, do you know what the object below is and what it is used for? If you and I share a common culture, you should know it.


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## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

There are shared cultural elements but not all cultures here in the US share everything. Native American , Jewish, Hindu, Japanese and on have different main tenants of their culture. Then we have regional cultures.


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

painterswife said:


> There are shared cultural elements but not all cultures here in the US share everything. Native American , Jewish, Hindu, Japanese and on have different main tenants of their culture. Then we have regional cultures.


Are they all cannibals?


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## MoonRiver (Sep 2, 2007)

painterswife said:


> No we don't watch the same TV shows. A legal system is not a culture and neither is following rules on the road.


You might want to look up culture.


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## Lisa in WA (Oct 11, 2004)

painterswife said:


> There are shared cultural elements but not all cultures here in the US share everything. Native American , Jewish, Hindu, Japanese and on have different main tenants of their culture. Then we have regional cultures.


Tenets, not tenants. There is an overarching American culture with many subcultures within. Religion is not a terribly defining part of our culture because of the separation of church and state.


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

Lisa in WA said:


> Religion is not a terribly defining part of our culture because of the separation of church and state


Isn't that in itself a culture artifacts?


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## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

Religion is a very big part of someone's culture.


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## Lisa in WA (Oct 11, 2004)

Before You Go: America's Culture and Customs


Spending any amount of time in the United States can be an exercise in rapid-fire cultural immersion. Paid and presented by HSBC.



www.bbc.com


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## MoonRiver (Sep 2, 2007)

SLFarmMI said:


> No, we don't share a common religion, cuisine, social customs, traditions, artifacts, etc. all of which are part of what make up a culture. To illustrate the point, do you know what the object below is and what it is used for? If you and I share a common culture, you should know it.
> View attachment 97961


Look up culture. It doesn't require 100% compliance. If I say hot dog, most people anywhere in US know what I'm talking about. Same with Coke or McDonalds. Try driving on the left-hand side of the road. Our laws are based on Judeo-Christianity. Ask the next 10 people you see if they know what the movie Titanic is about. Ask them who LeBron James is. Play a rap song and ask them what kind of music it is. You could ask someone in China or Bulgaria what American culture is and they would both have a similar description.


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## Lisa in WA (Oct 11, 2004)

painterswife said:


> Religion is a very big part of someone's culture.


And religion is very diverse in the American culture.
Again, not being American and having not traveled extensively or lived anywhere her but a small town in Wyoming, I really don’t think you have a basis of knowledge to argue with.


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## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

Lisa in WA said:


> And religion is very diverse in the American culture.
> Again, not being American and having not traveled extensively or lived anywhere her but a small town in Wyoming, I really don’t think you have a basis of knowledge to argue with.


There again making it personal instead of providing concrete examples for why you think my post is wrong. You really don't know as much about me as you think you do. Kindly leave my personal life out of things.


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## Lisa in WA (Oct 11, 2004)

painterswife said:


> There again making it personal instead of providing concrete examples for why you think my post is wrong. You really don't know as much about me as you think you do. Kindly leave my personal life out of things.


No, I won’t. 
Everything I said has been posted here by you and is common knowledge.
There is no rule here at all about responding personally and I will answer within HTs actual rules however I like.


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## Lisa in WA (Oct 11, 2004)

MoonRiver said:


> Look up culture. It doesn't require 100% compliance. If I say hot dog, most people anywhere in US know what I'm talking about. Same with Coke or McDonalds. Try driving on the left-hand side of the road. Our laws are based on Judeo-Christianity. Ask the next 10 people you see if they know what the movie Titanic is about. Ask them who LeBron James is. Play a rap song and ask them what kind of music it is. You could ask someone in China or Bulgaria what American culture is and they would both have a similar description.


exactly.
Do China and India not have cultures? They speak different languages and practice different religions in their countries. Would a Church of England parishioner in Manchester have to automatically recognize a cooking implement from India owned by another Manchester citizen in order for there to be a British culture?


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## Alice In TX/MO (May 10, 2002)

Do the Inuit have the same culture as retired Jewish heritage retirees living in Florida?


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

Alice In TX/MO said:


> Do the Inuit have the same culture as retired Jewish heritage retirees living in Florida?


Do Inuit even retire in Florida?


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## Alice In TX/MO (May 10, 2002)

One of my former renters was genetically a mix of Czech, Native American, and Irish. She was ostracized in the Wisconsin community where she grew up. She converted to Islam and moved to Yemen. When she moved back to the U.S., she lived in the Ozarks and wore a hijab. Common culture? Uh. Nope. Ask the locals there.

Is there a common culture between the slums of Chicago and the California neighborhood where film stars live and the Amish in Pennsylvania?


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## MoonRiver (Sep 2, 2007)

Alice In TX/MO said:


> Do the Inuit have the same culture as retired Jewish heritage retirees living in Florida?


They each have their own subculture but share the American culture.


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## MoonRiver (Sep 2, 2007)

Alice In TX/MO said:


> One of my former renters was genetically a mix of Czech, Native American, and Irish. She was ostracized in the Wisconsin community where she grew up. She converted to Islam and moved to Yemen. When she moved back to the U.S., she lived in the Ozarks and wore a hijab. Common culture? Uh. Nope. Ask the locals there.
> 
> Is there a common culture between the slums of Chicago and the California neighborhood where film stars live and the Amish in Pennsylvania?


Yes.


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## Alice In TX/MO (May 10, 2002)

No.


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## MoonRiver (Sep 2, 2007)

Alice In TX/MO said:


> No.


There is an American culture and then there are subcultures within it.


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## Lisa in WA (Oct 11, 2004)

Alice In TX/MO said:


> No.


Yes.








What Defines The American Culture?


American culture is not only defined by its lifestyle, fashion, and to-go coffee cups. It is also the culture of different religions, races, and ethnicities.




www.worldatlas.com


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

Alice In TX/MO said:


> One of my former renters was genetically a mix of Czech, Native American, and Irish. She was ostracized in the Wisconsin community where she grew up. She converted to Islam and moved to Yemen. When she moved back to the U.S., she lived in the Ozarks and wore a hijab. Common culture? Uh. Nope. Ask the locals there.
> 
> Is there a common culture between the slums of Chicago and the California neighborhood where film stars live and the Amish in Pennsylvania?


Having differences does not mean you do not also have commonalities. The examples are extremes, location based, even one offs.


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## muleskinner2 (Oct 7, 2007)

MoonRiver said:


> such as a handshake


The handshake was a precursor to the military salute. You are giving your sword hand to your enemy, establishing a truce. It was a good idea among warriors, not so much among merchants, or diplomats.


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## muleskinner2 (Oct 7, 2007)

MoonRiver said:


> In the US there is a common culture,


In the US there was a common culture, that has been changing fast since the end of WWII. It has reached the point where it is breaking off into mini cultures. Our nation has had a run of nearly 250 years, it is falling apart at a rapid rate. The newest generation wants things to all change over night, the older generation doesn't, and that is where we are at now.


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## muleskinner2 (Oct 7, 2007)

MoonRiver said:


> Sure we do. We watch the same tv shows, watch the same movies, go to k-12 schools, shop at Walmart, eat at McDonalds, have the same legal system, have the same rules for driving on roads, are all under the Constitution, etc.


All of that is just window dressing, if everybody doesn't look at it the same way. If a minority of the population can force the rest of the population to change what they think, how they act, and how the law is enforced or not enforced, then our culture is no longer common. We are having riots, burning, and looting in major cities almost every night, any common culture we had is gone.


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## sharkerbaby (Jan 15, 2016)

And those last two posts brought us full circle to what I believe was HDRider's point of the original posts. Our shared American culture is collapsing and being dismantled while most of us sit back and watch in dismay.


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## Alice In TX/MO (May 10, 2002)

Agree to disagree based on extensive travel and interaction with folks who do not watch television, etc.


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## Danaus29 (Sep 12, 2005)

painterswife said:


> A legal system is not a culture and neither is following rules on the road.


I beg to differ on the rules of the road part. Somali women are, a general conclusion based on daily road experience, among the worst drivers. They drive how they want to drive and they believe you better watch out for them.


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## Hiro (Feb 14, 2016)

The biggest differences in American culture that I have observed from extensive travel and working in and with virtually every ethnic group and socioeconomic group is the split between urban and rural. The suburban culture seems to be a somewhat successful intermingling of disparate cultures in America. But, my personal observations are anecdotal.


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## Alice In TX/MO (May 10, 2002)

This map shows how the US really has 11 separate 'nations' with entirely different cultures


From the utopian "Yankeedom" to the conservative "Greater Appalachia," looking at these cultures sheds a light on America's political divides.




www.businessinsider.com


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## SLFarmMI (Feb 21, 2013)

MoonRiver said:


> Look up culture. It doesn't require 100% compliance. If I say hot dog, most people anywhere in US know what I'm talking about. Same with Coke or McDonalds. Try driving on the left-hand side of the road. Our laws are based on Judeo-Christianity. Ask the next 10 people you see if they know what the movie Titanic is about. Ask them who LeBron James is. Play a rap song and ask them what kind of music it is. You could ask someone in China or Bulgaria what American culture is and they would both have a similar description.


You may want to look up culture. It encompasses religion, cuisine, social customs, traditions, artifacts and many more aspects. It encompasses the things we pass on to future generations. There is no one overarching American culture.


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## MoonRiver (Sep 2, 2007)

muleskinner2 said:


> The handshake was a precursor to the military salute. You are giving your sword hand to your enemy, establishing a truce. It was a good idea among warriors, not so much among merchants, or diplomats.


It goes back much further than that. It goes all the way back to when early man began trading with outside groups.


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## MoonRiver (Sep 2, 2007)

muleskinner2 said:


> All of that is just window dressing, if everybody doesn't look at it the same way. If a minority of the population can force the rest of the population to change what they think, how they act, and how the law is enforced or not enforced, then our culture is no longer common. We are having riots, burning, and looting in major cities almost every night, any common culture we had is gone.


Culture is a sociological term. You are talking about political differences.


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## MoonRiver (Sep 2, 2007)

SLFarmMI said:


> You may want to look up culture. It encompasses religion, cuisine, social customs, traditions, artifacts and many more aspects. It encompasses the things we pass on to future generations. There is no one overarching American culture.


Then that implies you don't believe there is a human culture either. See if you can find a single sociologist that agrees with you.


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## SLFarmMI (Feb 21, 2013)

MoonRiver said:


> Then that implies you don't believe there is a human culture either. See if you can find a single sociologist that agrees with you.


Another swing and a miss from you.

Since you are stating that there is an overarching American culture, let's see if you can define it. Let's start with an easy question. What is our shared cuisine? Cuisine is part of culture so, if there is one American culture, there should be American cuisine. So what food or cooking technique defines us?


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

SLFarmMI said:


> Another swing and a miss from you.
> 
> Since you are stating that there is an overarching American culture, let's see if you can define it. Let's start with an easy question. What is our shared cuisine? Cuisine is part of culture so, if there is one American culture, there should be American cuisine. So what food or cooking technique defines us?


No matter what he says you will throw up an exception.

Baseball, apple pie, and Mom.


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## SLFarmMI (Feb 21, 2013)

HDRider said:


> No matter what he says you will throw up an exception.


He made the claim that there is an overall American culture. He should be able to provide evidence of the same. I realize that you want false claims to go unchallenged (that's your MO) but that's just too bad. 



HDRider said:


> Baseball, apple pie, and Mom.


Baseball is derived from 2 English games, so not uniquely American. Apple pie is also a British invention, not American. The British were making apple pie long before America was even discovered. Nor is our supposed respect for Mom an American invention. Try again.


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## Mish (Oct 15, 2015)

There are entire swaths of land within driving distance of me that are filled with people from different (non-American) cultures that rarely venture outside of their own cultural bubble. I could drive you all to areas that look nothing like the United States that you are used to, where no one speaks English (except for the young), and people go out to eat at restaurants other than McDonalds, shop at supermarkets filled with things we can't read the labels of or read the sales fliers for. I'm sure they don't watch the same TV we do (except for possibly the young, if they are allowed). The culture is different, the religions are different, the attitudes toward life are different than most of us would be used to. 

There is a common culture in most of the country. In some parts of the country, though, the common culture is not what you or I are used to. 

We don't jump into the melting pot anymore, we move to areas with other people like us and become the undissolved lumps in the gravy.


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## MoonRiver (Sep 2, 2007)

SLFarmMI said:


> Another swing and a miss from you.
> 
> Since you are stating that there is an overarching American culture, let's see if you can define it. Let's start with an easy question. What is our shared cuisine? Cuisine is part of culture so, if there is one American culture, there should be American cuisine. So what food or cooking technique defines us?


You are making the mistake that everyone must participate in the culture in equal measures. That is an impossibility.

I could argue that the American culture allows people to have customs, languages, foods, religious practices, etc. that are outside of the main culture. The American culture is an inclusive culture. For example, the Cajun culture in Louisiana is very much a part of American culture, Chinese restaurants are available in cities and towns all across the country, basketball is played in every small town in the US as well as in many towns around the world, the entire country came together on 911, we elect one President for the entire country, and on and on.

I can also argue that assimilation is a process often taking many years. You seem to think that since assimilation doesn't happen in an instant, that means there is no such thing as American culture. How long did it take the Irish and the Italians to assimilate? Yet we still have Irish pubs and Italian restaurants.


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## muleskinner2 (Oct 7, 2007)

MoonRiver said:


> Culture is a sociological term. You are talking about political differences.


Political differences are what shape cultures.


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## MoonRiver (Sep 2, 2007)

Mish said:


> There are entire swaths of land within driving distance of me that are filled with people from different (non-American) cultures that rarely venture outside of their own cultural bubble. I could drive you all to areas that look nothing like the United States that you are used to, where no one speaks English (except for the young), and people go out to eat at restaurants other than McDonalds, shop at supermarkets filled with things we can't read the labels of or read the sales fliers for. I'm sure they don't watch the same TV we do (except for possibly the young, if they are allowed). The culture is different, the religions are different, the attitudes toward life are different than most of us would be used to.
> 
> There is a common culture in most of the country. In some parts of the country, though, the common culture is not what you or I are used to.
> 
> We don't jump into the melting pot anymore, we move to areas with other people like us and become the undissolved lumps in the gravy.


And I will use the same response I just posted. Assimilation takes time. it always has and always will. Some people come to America and jump into the culture with both feet. Others cling to what they know and live within their own community, usually because of a lack of self-confidence in tackling the unknown, the new. As their children learn English and American customs, things begin to change. Over time, they become more and more American until you can't tell they are 1st or 2nd generation Americans. That's because, over time, they are assimilated into the American culture, while still retaining many aspects of their original culture.

One huge mistake the government made was to publish government forms in languages other than English. It removes an important incentive for immigrants to learn English.


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## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

America allows the individual to live their life according to their own culture. That does not mean that there is one culture. Most Western countries facilitate that multiculturism.


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## MoonRiver (Sep 2, 2007)

muleskinner2 said:


> Political differences are what shape cultures.


Now you are just making things up. The ability for an individual to participate in politics is a very recent development. People were subjects of rulers or governments, not participants.

Now interpersonal relationships are a key to our development as humans and did play an important role in developing culture.


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## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

MoonRiver said:


> Now you are just making things up. The ability for an individual to participate in politics is a very recent development. People were subjects of rulers or governments, not participants.
> 
> Now interpersonal relationships are a key to our development as humans and did play an important role in developing culture.


That is so untrue. Politics have been around since man walked upright.


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## muleskinner2 (Oct 7, 2007)

MoonRiver said:


> It goes back much further than that. It goes all the way back to when early man began trading with outside groups.


I can assure you that no early man ever gave his hand to a potential enemy. When I worked and traveled in Africa, I never met a tribe that shook hands.


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## SLFarmMI (Feb 21, 2013)

MoonRiver said:


> You are making the mistake that everyone must participate in the culture in equal measures. That is an impossibility.
> 
> I could argue that the American culture allows people to have customs, languages, foods, religious practices, etc. that are outside of the main culture. The American culture is an inclusive culture. For example, the Cajun culture in Louisiana is very much a part of American culture, Chinese restaurants are available in cities and towns all across the country, basketball is played in every small town in the US as well as in many towns around the world, the entire country came together on 911, we elect one President for the entire country, and on and on.
> 
> I can also argue that assimilation is a process often taking many years. You seem to think that since assimilation doesn't happen in an instant, that means there is no such thing as American culture. How long did it take the Irish and the Italians to assimilate? Yet we still have Irish pubs and Italian restaurants.


You are making the mistake of assuming that people can't see your attempt to dodge around your inability to support your statement that there is an overall American culture. Your post actually makes exactly the opposite argument that you think it does.

Culture is transmitted via religion, cuisine, traditions, clothing, artifacts, language, etc. I gave you a very easy task -- show the American culture in the area of cuisine. If there is indeed a "main culture" as you state, then you should be able to demonstrate it in that area which is one of the easiest areas of culture to demonstrate. So let's hear it. What food or cooking method demonstrates the "main culture" in America?


----------



## MoonRiver (Sep 2, 2007)

muleskinner2 said:


> I can assure you that no early man ever gave his hand to a potential enemy. When I worked and traveled in Africa, I never met a tribe that shook hands.


I never said they did.


----------



## MoonRiver (Sep 2, 2007)

SLFarmMI said:


> You are making the mistake of assuming that people can't see your attempt to dodge around your inability to support your statement that there is an overall American culture. Your post actually makes exactly the opposite argument that you think it does.
> 
> Culture is transmitted via religion, cuisine, traditions, clothing, artifacts, language, etc. I gave you a very easy task -- show the American culture in the area of cuisine. If there is indeed a "main culture" as you state, then you should be able to demonstrate it in that area which is one of the easiest areas of culture to demonstrate. So let's hear it. What food or cooking method demonstrates the "main culture" in America?


I already did - hot dogs. You are stuck on the idea that since there are subcultures in the US, there can't be a primary culture. 

Immigrants assimilate over time. They may keep some of their former culture and language while assimilating into the larger American culture. My ancestry is German, English, and French. Over generations, the German and French influences have all but disappeared. This will happen with new immigrants as they attend school, get jobs, and marry. 

_Throughout its history, *American culture has been influenced by many different cultures* like Native American, Latin American, African, and others, and is often called a "melting pot." Simply put, it is a metaphor that describes *a heterogeneous society becoming more homogenous.* Since every community had different ways of adapting to life in the United States, they might keep their cultural traditions, customs, and language._​​_Still, t*hey will also absorb the American customs and their way of life in addition to their own*. More than 300 languages are spoken in the United States, and while there is no official language per se, around *90% of the population understands the English language*. *Religion diversity is also another aspect of the American culture*, and many different religions are practiced daily in the United States, with Christianity being the most prominent religion._​








What Defines The American Culture?


American culture is not only defined by its lifestyle, fashion, and to-go coffee cups. It is also the culture of different religions, races, and ethnicities.




www.worldatlas.com


----------



## Lisa in WA (Oct 11, 2004)

SLFarmMI said:


> You are making the mistake of assuming that people can't see your attempt to dodge around your inability to support your statement that there is an overall American culture. Your post actually makes exactly the opposite argument that you think it does.
> 
> Culture is transmitted via religion, cuisine, traditions, clothing, artifacts, language, etc. I gave you a very easy task -- show the American culture in the area of cuisine. If there is indeed a "main culture" as you state, then you should be able to demonstrate it in that area which is one of the easiest areas of culture to demonstrate. So let's hear it. What food or cooking method demonstrates the "main culture" in America?


You are making the mistake of using word salad in your shrill zeal to discredit Moonriver.

Im far more likely to take the word of an anthropologist talking about the culture of the US than a special Ed teacher or a reporter.








American Culture: Traditions and Customs of the United States


American culture is a diverse mix of customs and traditions from nearly every region of the world. Here is a brief overview of American holidays, food, clothing and more.




www.livescience.com


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## Lisa in WA (Oct 11, 2004)

Oh hey, look!
Yale has a class about American culture! Shocking.





American Studies | Open Yale Courses







oyc.yale.edu




“The American Studies program examines, from several perspectives, the development and expressions of a national culture and myriad subcultures, as well as borderland and diasporic cultures”

A quick google shows that Princeton, Harvard, Berkeley, Stanford, MIT….all have classes about American culture. In fact, most colleges do.


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

You inspired me @Lisa in WA 





__





Six Aspects of U.S. Culture International Students Need to Know


<p>For many international students, studying in the USA brings excitement about learning and living in a different culture. Some international students want ...




www.studyusa.com









__





Guide to American Culture and Etiquette


Guide to American Culture and Etiquette




harrisburg.psu.edu









__





American Values and Assumptions | University of Portland







www.up.edu







https://www.interexchange.org/articles/career-training-abroad/10-things-to-know-about-u-s-culture/







__





American Studies – overview | School of Languages, Cultures, and Race | Washington State University







slcr.wsu.edu













American Culture | Study in the USA


Learn crucial tips for interacting with American students and core holidays important to American culture.




www.internationalstudent.com





The list is endless


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## SLFarmMI (Feb 21, 2013)

MoonRiver said:


> I already did - hot dogs. You are stuck on the idea that since there are subcultures in the US, there can't be a primary culture.
> 
> Immigrants assimilate over time. They may keep some of their former culture and language while assimilating into the larger American culture. My ancestry is German, English, and French. Over generations, the German and French influences have all but disappeared. This will happen with new immigrants as they attend school, get jobs, and marry.
> 
> ...


No, you still haven't since the hot dog as we know it comes from the German culture. Still waiting for that food or cooking technique that is traditionally American and common across the country.


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## Lisa in WA (Oct 11, 2004)

SLFarmMI said:


> No, you still haven't since the hot dog as we know it comes from the German culture. Still waiting for that food or cooking technique that is traditionally American and common across the country.


The ingredients of a culturally American Thanksgiving dinner: Turkey, pumpkin pie, corn, cranberries.
indigenous ingredients prepared in ways that immigrants brought with them. Which is very much the epitome of American culture. Many cultures coming together, borrowing and giving aspects of other subcultures and forming what the rest of the world identifies as American culture.


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## Redlands Okie (Nov 28, 2017)

Mish said:


> There are entire swaths of land within driving distance of me that are filled with people from different (non-American) cultures that rarely venture outside of their own cultural bubble. I could drive you all to areas that look nothing like the United States that you are used to, where no one speaks English (except for the young), and people go out to eat at restaurants other than McDonalds, shop at supermarkets filled with things we can't read the labels of or read the sales fliers for. I'm sure they don't watch the same TV we do (except for possibly the young, if they are allowed). The culture is different, the religions are different, the attitudes toward life are different than most of us would be used to.
> 
> There is a common culture in most of the country. In some parts of the country, though, the common culture is not what you or I are used to.
> 
> We don't jump into the melting pot anymore, we move to areas with other people like us and become the undissolved lumps in the gravy.



“We don't jump into the melting pot anymore, we move to areas with other people like us and become the undissolved lumps in the gravy.”


That’s a large problem. Many parts of the world it’s not accepted. You learn the language and you follow the customs, at least publicly. These race issues that should be a minor issue here now, is being turned into a mess with no reasonable solutions in my opinion. The gravy is going to get a lot more lumpy. The fact that this country will not even make English the official language is a good example.


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## SLFarmMI (Feb 21, 2013)

Lisa in WA said:


> The ingredients of a culturally American Thanksgiving dinner: Turkey, pumpkin pie, corn, cranberries.
> indigenous ingredients prepared in ways that immigrants brought with them. Which is very much the epitome of American culture. Many cultures coming together, borrowing and giving aspects of other subcultures and forming what the rest of the world identifies as American culture.


Well, finally, you've managed to come up with 1 example of a cuisine that could be called common. Now let's move on to other aspects of culture because 1 example in 1 area does not a culture make. How about clothing next? What is our common dress that pulls us together as one overall culture?


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## Lisa in WA (Oct 11, 2004)

SLFarmMI said:


> Well, finally, you've managed to come up with 1 example of a cuisine that could be called common. Now let's move on to other aspects of culture because 1 example in 1 area does not a culture make. How about clothing next? What is our common dress that pulls us together as one overall culture?


Finally, my a$$.
Blue jeans, cowboy boots, baseball caps are known the world over as a symbol of American culture.


----------



## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

Thanksgiving is a harvest festival and those started way before the US Thanksgiving. In fact, Canada had "Thanksgiving" and turkey at it first.


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## Lisa in WA (Oct 11, 2004)

painterswife said:


> Thanksgiving is a harvest festival and those started way before the US Thanksgiving. In fact, Canada had "Thanksgiving" and turkey at it first.


As always, if you think you’re bringing a fact to the table…no one believes you without a source.
You’ve actually referenced here the “American culture” you deny now. I guessed it worked in your favor then. 


https://www.homesteadingtoday.com/threads/obama-says-he-wont-force-churches-to-perform-gay-weddings.489034/page-3#post-6642081


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## Lisa in WA (Oct 11, 2004)

painterswife said:


> Thanksgiving is a harvest festival and those started way before the US Thanksgiving. In fact, Canada had "Thanksgiving" and turkey at it first.


Which matters not at all. It’s American culture now. But please. Substantiate your claim. 
Where do you get this idea that something has to originate somewhere or it’s not part of a culture.
Spaghetti is claimed as part of Italian culture when historians agree it was brought from China.


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## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

Lisa in WA said:


> As always, if you think you’re bringing a fact to the table…no one believes you without a source.
> You’ve actually referenced here the “American culture” you deny now. I guessed it worked in your favor then.
> 
> 
> https://www.homesteadingtoday.com/threads/obama-says-he-wont-force-churches-to-perform-gay-weddings.489034/page-3#post-6642081


I have not denied there is American Culture. There are many American cultures, not just one. There are regional cultures, there are religious cultures there are ethnic cultures. They share things but there is not one culture here in the US that everyone participates in. It is a Multicultural country in this day and age.


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## MoonRiver (Sep 2, 2007)

painterswife said:


> America allows the individual to live their life according to their own culture. That does not mean that there is one culture. Most Western countries facilitate that multiculturism.


Multiculture does NOT mean there is not a predominant culture.


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## Lisa in WA (Oct 11, 2004)

painterswife said:


> I have not denied there is American Culture. There are many American cultures, not just one. There are regional cultures, there are religious cultures there are ethnic cultures. They share things but there is not one culture here in the US that everyone participates in. It is a Multicultural country in this day and age.


uh-huh. That’s just more of your usual game playing.
Please show where Canada had a thanksgiving earlier than the US.


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## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

The first official, annual Thanksgiving in Canada was celebrated on 6 November 1879, though Indigenous peoples in Canada have a history of celebrating the fall harvest that predates the arrival of European settlers. *Sir Martin Frobisher** and his crew are credited as the first Europeans to celebrate a Thanksgiving ceremony in North America, in 1578.* They were followed by the inhabitants of New France under Samuel de Champlain in 1606. The celebration featuring the uniquely North American turkey, squash and pumpkin was introduced to Nova Scotia in the 1750s and became common across Canada by the 1870s. In 1957, Thanksgiving was proclaimed an annual event to occur on the second Monday of October. It is an official statutory holiday in all provinces and territories except Prince Edward Island, New Brunswick, and Nova Scotia.

Thanksgiving in Canada | The Canadian Encyclopedia









Thanksgiving in North America: From Local Harvests to National Holiday


Most Americans are familiar with the Pilgrim's Thanksgiving Feast of 1621, but few realize that it was not the first festival of its kind in North America.... Learn more




www.si.edu




.

"
Most Americans are familiar with the Pilgrim's Thanksgiving Feast of 1621, but few realize that it was not the first festival of its kind in North America. Long before Europeans set foot in the Americas, native peoples sought to insure a good harvest with dances and rituals such as the Green Corn Dance of the Cherokees.

The first Thanksgiving service known to be held by Europeans in North America occurred on May 27, 1578, in Newfoundland, although earlier Church-type services were probably held by Spaniards in La Florida. However, for British New England, some historians believe that the Popham Colony in Maine conducted a Thanksgiving service in 1607 (see Sources: Greif, 208-209; Gould, and Hatch). In the same year, Jamestown colonists gave thanks for their safe arrival, and another service was held in 1610 when a supply ship arrived after a harsh winter. Berkley Hundred settlers held a Thanksgiving service in accordance with their charter which stated that the day of their arrival in Virginia should be observed yearly as a day of Thanksgiving, but within a few years an Indian uprising ended further services (Dabney). Thus British colonists held several Thanksgiving services in America before the Pilgrim's celebration in 1621."


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## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

Canadian Thanksgiving


Although the United States and Canada share much of the same culture, the origins of Canadian Thanksgiving actually are more closely connected to the traditions of Europe than Americas. Find out why!




www.kidzworld.com





"*Canadian Thanksgiving*
Oct 01, 2020
*How Canadian Thanksgiving Began*
The origins of Canadian Thanksgiving are more closely connected to the *traditions of Europe* than of the United States. Long before Europeans settled in North America, festivals of thanks and *celebrations of harvest* took place in Europe in the month of October. The very first Thanksgiving celebration in North America took place in 1578 in Canada when *Martin Frobisher*, an explorer from *England*. in search of the Northwest Passage. He wanted to give thanks for his safe arrival to the New World. That means the first Thanksgiving in Canada was celebrated 43 years before the pilgrims landed in Plymouth, *Massachusetts!*"


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## Lisa in WA (Oct 11, 2004)

painterswife said:


> The first official, annual Thanksgiving in Canada was celebrated on 6 November 1879, though Indigenous peoples in Canada have a history of celebrating the fall harvest that predates the arrival of European settlers. *Sir Martin Frobisher** and his crew are credited as the first Europeans to celebrate a Thanksgiving ceremony in North America, in 1578.* They were followed by the inhabitants of New France under Samuel de Champlain in 1606. The celebration featuring the uniquely North American turkey, squash and pumpkin was introduced to Nova Scotia in the 1750s and became common across Canada by the 1870s. In 1957, Thanksgiving was proclaimed an annual event to occur on the second Monday of October. It is an official statutory holiday in all provinces and territories except Prince Edward Island, New Brunswick, and Nova Scotia.
> 
> Thanksgiving in Canada | The Canadian Encyclopedia
> 
> ...


As you pointed out earlier, the Pilgrims were not American and neither was Martin Frobisher Canadian (whose Thanksgiving isn’t actually proven). The first national Thanksgiving was American.
And if you do want to go by your reference, it also states that there were likely earlier religious celebrations by Spaniards in Florida.


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## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

Just proves the first North American Thanksgiving was not in the US and is a borrowed tradition from other countries. You asked you received. Thanksgiving has been celebrated for Centuries just under another name.,


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## Lisa in WA (Oct 11, 2004)

painterswife said:


> Just proves the first North American Thanksgiving was not in the US and is a borrowed tradition from other countries. You asked you received. Thanksgiving has been celebrated for Centuries just under another name.,


I’m sorry. Let me get this straight.
You’re saying that you know somehow that indigenous tribes in what is now the US did not celebrate harvest feasts before Canadian indigenous tribes?
and that turkey, corn, squash cranberries and potatoes are not part of tge American cultural Thanksgiving?


----------



## Lisa in WA (Oct 11, 2004)

I am curious to know exactly what countries in the world do have a predominant culture as defined by the naysayers here?


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## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

Lisa in WA said:


> I’m sorry. Let me get this straight.
> You’re saying that you know somehow that indigenous tribes in what is now the US did not celebrate harvest feasts before Canadian indigenous tribes?
> and that turkey, corn, squash cranberries and potatoes are not part of tge American cultural Thanksgiving?


I think you are trying to play games because you did not know about the Thanksgiving celebration that happened in Canada. You were unaware that others that immigrated to North America had celebrated a thanksgiving/ harvest celebration before they the First US Thanksgiving. I already stated that harvest celebration happened wold wide before the settlers did so in the US.

Turkey was first used in the Canadian Thanksgiving celebration.


----------



## Lisa in WA (Oct 11, 2004)

I’m also dying to know why we should believe you, @painterswife …a CanadIan living in rural Wyoming, who offer no sources to back up your claims, over myriad anthropologists and sociologists who refer to American culture. Not cultures, but culture.


----------



## Lisa in WA (Oct 11, 2004)

painterswife said:


> I think you are trying to play games because you did not know about the Thanksgiving celebration that happened in Canada. You were unaware that others that immigrated to North America had celebrated a thanksgiving/ harvest celebration before they the First US Thanksgiving. I already stated that harvest celebration happened wold wide before the settlers did so in the US.
> 
> Turkey was first used in the Canadian Thanksgiving celebration.


A. You’re the one known for game playing, sis.
B. There was no Canada…remember? Just like there was no US when the pilgrims celebrated as you pointed out.

C. So…are you saying that our American Thanksgiving is not part of our culture in the US?

D. And are you also saying that any feast of thanksgiving by any culture, subculture, tribe, nation etc. who celebrated is not part of their culture because others have also given thanks by way of feasting?


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## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

Lisa in WA said:


> I’m also dying to know why we should believe you, @painterswife …a CanadIan living in rural Wyoming, who offer no sources to back up your claims, over myriad anthropologists and sociologists who refer to American culture. Not cultures, but culture.


Don't believe me. I don't care one bit. You sure seem to care about whatever I post. I can google and post links just like you do. Several of your links say that the US is Multicultural.


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## Lisa in WA (Oct 11, 2004)

painterswife said:


> Don't believe me. I don't care one bit. You sure seem to care about whatever I post. I can google and post links just like you do. Several of your links say that the US is Multicultural.


A. Good on you.
B. Oh honey…I care so, so much. 😘
C. You can, but you don’t.
D. Yes, they do. With a predominant culture.
E. You get so bogged down in your plodding pedantics that you lose sight of the actual argument.


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## todd_xxxx (Apr 19, 2018)

Lisa in WA said:


> ...
> You get so bogged down in your plodding pedantics that you lose sight of the actual argument.


Oh, this, a thousand times this...


----------



## exodus (Jun 18, 2012)

There is one thing about America, anyone can become an American. As an American I cannot go to Ireland an become an Irishman or France and be a Frenchman. That is something special about America.


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## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

exodus said:


> There is one thing about America, anyone can become an American. As an American I cannot go to Ireland and become an Irishman or France and be a Frenchman. That is something special about America.


Yes, they can. It is called immigration.


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## todd_xxxx (Apr 19, 2018)

painterswife said:


> Yes, they can. It is called immigration.


As someone that is so concerned about being personally attacked, why are all your posts ****ty and patronizing?


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

The white guy in this video is the person who wrote the material in the OP. The black guy is doing a very good job discussing race in America.


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## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

todd_xxxx said:


> As someone that is so concerned about being personally attacked, why are all your posts ****ty and patronizing?


I have no problem with you attacking my posts. Personal attacks or, bringing in my personal life into a thread instead of attacking the post itself is something else altogether. You should be able to discuss the material itself instead of on attacking me personally.


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## todd_xxxx (Apr 19, 2018)

painterswife said:


> I have no problem with you attacking my posts. Personal attacks or, bringing in my personal life into a thread instead of attacking the post itself is something else altogether. You should be able to discuss the material itself instead of on attacking me personally.


So, let me ask again. A person with one post here made a comment that pretty much no one could take offense to, and you quoted it and left a $hitty, patronizing response. Why?


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## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

todd_xxxx said:


> So, let me ask again. A person with one post here made a comment that pretty much no one could take offense to, and you quoted it and left a $hitty, patronizing response. Why?


That is your opinion. You are welcome to it. Why are you not calling out all the crappy posts made to me by people you agree with?


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

painterswife said:


> That is your opinion. You are welcome to it. Why are you not calling out all the crappy posts made to me by people you agree with?


You do this every time. You make it all about you.

Read the article, watch the video. Talk about that.


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## MoonRiver (Sep 2, 2007)

painterswife said:


> That is so untrue. Politics have been around since man walked upright.


Politics - the art or science of government

So early man had a government? Fascinating!


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## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

MoonRiver said:


> Politics - the art or science of government
> 
> So early man had a government? Fascinating!


"Politics is the way that people living in groups make decisions. Politics is about making agreements between people so that they can live together in groups such as tribes, cities, or countries. ... Politicians, and sometimes other people, may get together to form a government."









Politics - Wikipedia







en.wikipedia.org


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## Lisa in WA (Oct 11, 2004)

exodus said:


> There is one thing about America, anyone can become an American. As an American I cannot go to Ireland an become an Irishman or France and be a Frenchman. That is something special about America.


That isn’t true, though I agree that America is special. Most countries have had heavy influxes of immigration at this point.
if you become naturalized as an Irish citizen you become Irish. If you become a naturalized French citizen, you are French. If you become a naturalized citizen of Nigeria you are Nigerian.


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## MoonRiver (Sep 2, 2007)

painterswife said:


> "Politics is the way that people living in groups make decisions. Politics is about making agreements between people so that they can live together in groups such as tribes, cities, or countries. ... Politicians, and sometimes other people, may get together to form a government."
> 
> 
> 
> ...


First, you used the term politics as meaning government. When I challenged you, you then use a different definition. The meaning of politics today is directly related to government. All the wikipedia article is really saying is the origin of the word politics goes back to the greek word _politiká_. That does not mean that politics as used today and _politiká_ have the same meaning.


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## Lisa in WA (Oct 11, 2004)

painterswife said:


> I have no problem with you attacking my posts. Personal attacks or, bringing in my personal life into a thread instead of attacking the post itself is something else altogether. You should be able to discuss the material itself instead of on attacking me personally.


No one here, including myself attacked you personally.
The only thing that was brought into the thread were facts that you’ve already shared here many times. the fact that you don’t like it is immaterial.
I would imagine that some people here do not like being lectured and condescended to about what American culture is by someone who is not American. I’d never dream of telling Canadians what their culture is.


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## SLFarmMI (Feb 21, 2013)

Lisa in WA said:


> Finally, my a$$.
> Blue jeans, cowboy boots, baseball caps are known the world over as a symbol of American culture.


None of those items of clothing are a traditional, national dress.


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## todd_xxxx (Apr 19, 2018)

painterswife said:


> That is your opinion. You are welcome to it. Why are you not calling out all the crappy posts made to me by people you agree with?


Have you ever just answered a question? You know, just given a straight answer without deflecting, twisting the question into something, not answered with a question, just simply answered the question?


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## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

MoonRiver said:


> First, you used the term politics as meaning government. When I challenged you, you then use a different definition. The meaning of politics today is directly related to government. All the wikipedia article is really saying is the origin of the word politics goes back to the greek word _politiká_. That does not mean that politics as used today and _politiká_ have the same meaning.


No, I said the word politics, you assumed I meant more. Either way the fist recorded government was in Mesopotamia. Not very recent.



Lisa in WA said:


> No one here, including myself attacked you personally.
> The only thing that was brought into the thread were facts that you’ve already shared here many times. the fact that you don’t like it is immaterial.
> I would imagine that some people here do not like being lectured and condescended to about what American culture is by someone who is not American. I’d never dream of telling Canadians what their culture is.


Yet you posted links about what others think US culture is from others countries. 

I live here, I work here, I pay taxes here. I do know what I am talking about from personal experience.


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

This is the basis of the video discussion between Coleman Hughes and Charles Murray

There is no getting around certain large and troubling implications of black-white differences. The implications seem most troubling when you turn from the average differences and focus instead on the differences at the extreme -- when you contrast the two overlapping bell-shaped distribution curves and look at the proportions in each group scoring above and below certain levels. If you tell yourself that the top professional and managerial jobs in this country require an IQ of at least 115 or thereabouts, then you also have to tell yourself that only about 2.5 percent of blacks appear able to compete for those jobs. The comparable figure for whites would be about 16 percent. Total black population with IQs over 115: 800,000. Comparable figure for whites: about 30 million. If blacks had the same IQ distribution as whites, the black total would be over 5 million.​​





​

Black-White IQ Differences

​


----------



## Lisa in WA (Oct 11, 2004)

painterswife said:


> No, I said the word politics, you assumed I meant more.
> Yet you posted links about what others think US culture is from others countries.
> 
> I live here, I work here, I pay taxes here. I do know what I am talking about from personal experience.


Oh yes, and from many other sources as well.
When anthropologists and sociologists say there is an American Culture (in the singular) I’d say they know far more than you do.
So what. I live near Canada and could buy a place up there and spend summers. That doesn’t make me an authority on what Canadian culture is. I’m not a Canadian nor have I fully immersed myself in that Culture. Nor have you in the American culture. I’ll bet your neighbors there in Alpine believe there is an American culture.


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## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

I am immersed several of the cultures. Full time for over 20 years.

Mormons have a distinct culture. There is a strong Mexican based culture.  Even a cowboy culture that is unique in its own way.


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## Lisa in WA (Oct 11, 2004)

painterswife said:


> I am immersed several of the cultures. Full time for over 20 years.
> 
> Mormons have a distinct culture. There is a strong Mexican based culture. Even a cowboy culture that is unique in its own way.


I know you think so.


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## todd_xxxx (Apr 19, 2018)

Lisa in WA said:


> I know you think so.


You should know better than to argue what American culture is with a Mexican-Canadian Mormon with a cowboy hat.


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## Lisa in WA (Oct 11, 2004)

todd_xxxx said:


> You should know better than to argue what American culture is with a Mexican-Canadian Mormon with a cowboy hat.


You’d think so but I don’t know any better than to argue with a pedant either. 🙄


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

Lisa in WA said:


> pedant


Good word


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## Redlands Okie (Nov 28, 2017)

Lisa in WA said:


> Finally, my a$$.
> Blue jeans, cowboy boots, baseball caps are known the world over as a symbol of American culture.


Generally speaking those are all American inventions. Pretty safe to say the jeans are worn by all but a few here in America. The caps by almost as many. The boots by many also. All pretty well recognized as a American influence even when they are smuggled into other countries or copied else where. For a somewhat current wear item they are going to be pretty hard to beat examples.


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## Redlands Okie (Nov 28, 2017)

Even if some seem to have lost the knowledge of how to keep their jeans up without using their hands so as to keep from tripping on them. Seems even a culture item can be twisted into a embarrassment.

Or perhaps that’s a culture symbol for some……


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## RJ2019 (Aug 27, 2019)

When i was in Ireland I went to a resturaunt that specialized in American food. They had hamburgers, hot dogs, pizza, mac n cheese, and some other dishes I am forgetting because it was so long ago. That kind of indicates to me that according to other nations, America does have a culture.

Where does cobbler come from? Google it, my friends.....


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## todd_xxxx (Apr 19, 2018)

I was going to add cheeseburgers, but I figured why bother. I'm sure someone would point out that some other culture had a round food that had meat on it, so cheeseburgers didn't really count...


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

todd_xxxx said:


> I was going to add cheeseburgers, but I figured why bother. I'm sure someone would point out that some other culture had a round food that had meat on it, so cheeseburgers didn't really count...


Someone down in Margaritaville wrote a song about cheeseburgers in paradise. I always thought paradise was America, but I am sure I will be schooled on that.


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## Danaus29 (Sep 12, 2005)

SLFarmMI said:


> No, you still haven't since the hot dog as we know it comes from the German culture. Still waiting for that food or cooking technique that is traditionally American and common across the country.


Not food or cooking but there is one thing that has arrisen from an Amercan invention. Parents yelling at their kids to turn off a light when they leave a room. Or maybe parents telling the kids to get off the phone and come to dinner.

Food related, tv dinners are an American invention but I'm not sure how common they were. Microwave cooking, microwaves are an American invention and they are used widely across the country. Microwave popcorn is another American invention, quite common across the country.


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## exodus (Jun 18, 2012)

I'm sorry the point I was trying to put across was this. A person born in America decides he or she wants to be an Irishman, they imagrat to Ireland fill out all the paperwork pay the cost become a citizen. Learn to drink a pint at the local pub cheer for soccer or rugby. About 99% of all the patrons in that pub would know you are not an Irishman aND that you imargated there. Now take an Irishman that wants to become an American goes to USA fills out all the imagration forms becomes an American citizen. Goes down to the local bar drinks a beer eats a hotdog roots for the baseball team on the TV with his baseball cap on. I think 99% of the patrons could not tell he was not born in the US.


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## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

exodus said:


> I'm sorry the point I was trying to put across was this. A person born in America decides he or she wants to be an Irishman, they imagrat to Ireland fill out all the paperwork pay the cost become a citizen. Learn to drink a pint at the local pub cheer for soccer or rugby. About 99% of all the patrons in that pub would know you are not an Irishman aND that you imargated there. Now take an Irishman that wants to become an American goes to USA fills out all the imagration forms becomes an American citizen. Goes down to the local bar drinks a beer eats a hotdog roots for the baseball team on the TV with his baseball cap on. I think 99% of the patrons could not tell he was not born in the US.


The world and even Ireland have many people that don't look like the original people that populated a country. Yet they were born there and their family lived there for generations. You can't really judge a book by it's cover.


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## exodus (Jun 18, 2012)

Wasn't just referring to looks it's also how one carries one self. Also wasn't referring to many generations. Just a person trying to assimilate into another country. I think It's much ease to assimilate to the us than other country's.


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

exodus said:


> Wasn't just referring to looks it's also how one carries one self. Also wasn't referring to many generations. Just a person trying to assimilate into another country. I think It's much ease to assimilate to the us than other country's.


When I was in Germany they said they could immediately spot Americans by their shoes.


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## exodus (Jun 18, 2012)

I used to work with Ukrainians, they could tell the difference between Poles, Russians, Germans and many from the Slavic nations. Many before they even spoke?


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

A two minute snippet from the longer video I posted that captures the essence of the longer video and the article I posted.


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## wil14 (Sep 13, 2020)

This is both where we are at and where we are going though the tally is more like 189 dead and 500 shootings in one day:









July 4 bloodbath: 379 are shot - 142 fatally - across US this weekend


Multiple US cities saw horrific shootings over the July 4 weekend, with Chicago, Philly, Dallas and New York among those worst hit. At least 165 were shot across all four, with 49 killed.




www.dailymail.co.uk


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

wil14 said:


> This is both where we are at and where we are going though the tally is more like 189 dead and 500 shootings in one day:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Aren't those the same cities with the country's strictest gun laws? Some of which repeatedly return violent offenders to the street with no bail, and often dropping charges.


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## wil14 (Sep 13, 2020)

HDRider said:


> Aren't those the same cities with the country's strictest gun laws? Some of which repeatedly return violent offenders to the street with no bail, and often dropping charges.



The problem is the same at all levels of our society. Police militarize in order to deal with group x, group y (us) then have to deal with those issues. Gun laws are passed to deal with the violence of group x, laws of course are applied to our group as well. The project began in the 60s is failing. It will only get worse.


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## Karen (Apr 17, 2002)

> "MoonRiver, post: 8779457, member: 26976"One huge mistake the government made was to publish government forms in languages other than English. It removes an important incentive for immigrants to learn English.


One huge mistake most Americans make is that they think English is the National language. The USA has no official National language!

This alone is a major point and indication that we don’t share a common culture and are even encouraged not to. We may have “created” a sense of culture, but it’s just a facade as a way of belonging as a Nation. It’s why we’re a melting pot. We created the pot, but all those things in the pot are distinct; some have dissolved, but many still distinguishable as their own unit.


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## Redlands Okie (Nov 28, 2017)

Still no reason to not make English the USA official language.


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## todd_xxxx (Apr 19, 2018)

Karen said:


> One huge mistake most Americans make is that they think English is the National language. The USA has no official National language!
> 
> This alone is a major point and indication that we don’t share a common culture and are even encouraged not to. We may have “created” a sense of culture, but it’s just a facade as a way of belonging as a Nation. It’s why we’re a melting pot. We created the pot, but all those things in the pot are distinct; some have dissolved, but many still distinguishable as their own unit.


All cultures are "created".


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

todd_xxxx said:


> All cultures are "created".


or destroyed 










Woke is the American Taliban


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## B&L Chicken Ranch and Spa (Jan 4, 2019)

Alice In TX/MO said:


> Based on my personal experience, I do not believe we have common culture.


I disagree. 
You can drive 3000 miles and have a good idea of what you will experience at both ends and the middle even though those people are from the entire world. 
That is unique and that is the US.

You seem to want US to be divided.


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## Lisa in WA (Oct 11, 2004)

B&L Chicken Ranch and Spa said:


> I disagree.
> You can drive 3000 miles and have a good idea of what you will experience at both ends and the middle even though those people are from the entire world.
> That is unique and that is the US.
> 
> You seem to want US to be divided.


Exactly. I’ve lived all over this country, went to school all over this country, raised kids all over this country, vacationed all over this country, and there is a strong mainstream, predominant American culture.


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

Lisa in WA said:


> Exactly. I’ve lived all over this country, went to school all over this country, raised kids all over this country, vacationed all over this country, and there is a strong mainstream, predominant American culture.


Me too.

Agree 101%


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## gilberte (Sep 25, 2004)




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## B&L Chicken Ranch and Spa (Jan 4, 2019)

painterswife said:


> The world and even Ireland have many people that don't look like the original people that populated a country. Yet they were born there and their family lived there for generations. You can't really judge a book by it's cover.


Boo, booo!


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## B&L Chicken Ranch and Spa (Jan 4, 2019)

wil14 said:


> This is both where we are at and where we are going though the tally is more like 189 dead and 500 shootings in one day:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Mostly "gangbangers" That is not US.


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## Redlands Okie (Nov 28, 2017)

So from that link, almost one forth of the casualties in the entire USA from the single town of Chicago. 

Wow.


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## sharkerbaby (Jan 15, 2016)

yep, disgusting isn't it? But the local leadership here is more worried about systemic racism, which among other things means no-cash bail aka "catch and release" so the offenders can go right back to doing whatever it was they were doing.


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## B&L Chicken Ranch and Spa (Jan 4, 2019)

sharkerbaby said:


> yep, disgusting isn't it? But the local leadership here is more worried about systemic racism, which among other things means no-cash bail aka "catch and release" so the offenders can go right back to doing whatever it was they were doing.


Obviously it is the legal gun owners at fault here. Right. I am hot and all this crap is getting to me. What is the end game here?


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