# Honey in deep super



## cityfeet (Feb 1, 2015)

So last week's inspection found several deep frames of capped honey in what should be frames of brood. My plan all week for this weekend was to extract the honey and put the frames back in so they can clean them out and use for brood. Now I'm second guessing myself that they want covert it to a brood frame and that I should replace with new foundation. Which are they most likely to do? Seems too late to add a honey super...


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## ed/La (Feb 26, 2009)

I would leave the honey. If hive is strong add another deep. Move the honey up and replace with empty comb if you have it. If not move honey to outer wall and add empty comb next to brood. Add super is OK if drawn comb. She will lay eggs there to. Hard to get them to make much comb now. Use what ever you have.


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## RonTgottagoat (Feb 27, 2014)

I don’t know but I think I’d add a box move some honey up maybe checkerboard in some new frames that they could use for brood. How many boxes are u in? How many honey frames are there and how much brood? Are the frames solid honey? Or is there some honey around brood/eggs etc? I’d err on the side of more honey for winter than less.


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## RonTgottagoat (Feb 27, 2014)

Honey is a 8-10 a quart a new nuc is $150 or so how bad do you want honey?


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## cityfeet (Feb 1, 2015)

It's not about getting the honey uh really. It's more about giving them room for brood. I don't have any extra frames for brood right now and there is a ton of honey in there. I figured I'd would serve two purposes to take honey and give them back frames they could clean and lay in. No?


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## ed/La (Feb 26, 2009)

If it is approaching honey bound then pull a few. If you have drawn comb in empty super give them a super. They will fill with honey or brood. Does not matter both are good.


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## cityfeet (Feb 1, 2015)

cityfeet said:


> It's not about getting the hine uh really.


Why would spellcheck change "honey" to "hine uh" lol


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## cityfeet (Feb 1, 2015)

ed/La said:


> If it is approaching honey bound then pull a few. If you have drawn comb in empty super give them a super. They will fill with honey or brood. Does not matter both are good.


I don't have any drawn comb. If I extract the honey and put those frames back in will they clean and use for brood or will they lean towards wanting to fill with more honey?


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## ed/La (Feb 26, 2009)

cityfeet said:


> I don't have any drawn comb. If I extract the honey and put those frames back in will they clean and use for brood or will they lean towards wanting to fill with more honey?


 The value of extra drawn comb. Extract and put next to brood. They will probably use for brood. If they fill with honey that is OK. Give them a super any way if that is all you have. No queen excluded. Perhaps they will draw it out. At this time of year I do not let any comb go unused. If I find empty frames I give to hive that will use it. You probably will have decent fall flow so they have time to build numbers and stores. If hive is light in late fall you can feed before it gets to cold.


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## cityfeet (Feb 1, 2015)

ed/La said:


> The value of extra drawn comb. Extract and put next to brood. They will probably use for brood. If they fill with honey that is OK. Give them a super any way if that is all you have. No queen excluded. Perhaps they will draw it out. At this time of year I do not let any comb go unused. If I find empty frames I give to hive that will use it. You probably will have decent fall flow so they have time to build numbers and stores. If hive is light in late fall you can feed before it gets to cold.


Thanks. This is our first time experiencing this particular issue and sometimes I have to remind myself that they do all this naturally and probably know how to police themselves.


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## damoc (Jul 14, 2007)

I would probably pull a few frames and extract to give them room unless you think you are going to have no pollen for the next couple of months going in to winter.


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## cityfeet (Feb 1, 2015)

I ended up only having time to do one hive yesterday. Pulled 6 deep frames off the top hive body. Left 4 full deeps, not to mention what was in the bottom box. I really feel they didnt have much room for brood. Hopefully they'll clean those 6 frames up and be able to use them for brood (hopefully I didnt destroy them too bad removing the caps)


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## ed/La (Feb 26, 2009)

cityfeet said:


> I ended up only having time to do one hive yesterday. Pulled 6 deep frames off the top hive body. Left 4 full deeps, not to mention what was in the bottom box. I really feel they didnt have much room for brood. Hopefully they'll clean those 6 frames up and be able to use them for brood (hopefully I didnt destroy them too bad removing the caps)


I did not realize how much honey you have. 4 deeps. Wow. I guess you were honey bound or close to it. You put the empty frames in or near the brood?


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## cityfeet (Feb 1, 2015)

ed/La said:


> You put the empty frames in or near the brood?


No, it was getting late so I didn't even get into the bottom super. This was just from the top hive body. All 10 deep frames were honey. I'm guessing some of the bottom also. This weekend I'll go in and make sure I see brood. If not I'm worried.


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## ed/La (Feb 26, 2009)

Have you been feeding? Is hive full of honey or sugar syrup.


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## cityfeet (Feb 1, 2015)

ed/La said:


> Have you been feeding? Is hive full of honey or sugar syrup.


I was feeding earlier in the year but I feed in several chicken waterers placed around the property to discourage robbing. This hive had honey. I think some of the other ones may have some capped sugar water


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## txsteele (Nov 19, 2014)

cityfeet said:


> No, it was getting late so I didn't even get into the bottom super. This was just from the top hive body. All 10 deep frames were honey. I'm guessing some of the bottom also. *This weekend I'll go in and make sure I see brood. If not I'm worried.*


This is exactly what I was thinking as I read your thread. Not to cause you any anxiety but make sure you have a queen. If she absconded and the girls did not hatch another queen, some times the remaining workers will just fill the hive up with honey because they don't know what else to do. I've had that happen and had to buy a queen on-line.


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## cityfeet (Feb 1, 2015)

txsteele said:


> This is exactly what I was thinking as I read your thread. Not to cause you any anxiety but make sure you have a queen. If she absconded and the girls did not hatch another queen, some times the remaining workers will just fill the hive up with honey because they don't know what else to do. I've had that happen and had to buy a queen on-line.


I'm definitely a little worried but hey, if I do find that them I'll probably try to combine with another hive before it gets cold


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## txsteele (Nov 19, 2014)

cityfeet said:


> I'm definitely a little worried but hey, if I do find that them I'll probably try to combine with another hive before it gets cold


Full disclosure...there are guys on here with WAY MORE experience than I but the following worked for me.

You can buy a Queen for about $35-45 ish shipped over night......When I had a queen leave and the remaining girls didn't raise their own queen to replace her, they went bananas for the new one when I placed her cage on the top frames of the hive. Saved me from having to loose a hive because two were combined.


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## alleyyooper (Apr 22, 2005)

All I can say it is good your south. If it was some one at a local club meeting telling me what you have wrote I would not be happy and let them know too.

We aare going into fall here and having a two deep system and the top deep was full of honey I would leave then allone, especialy if you haven't looked in the bottom box.

Bottom box is probably all brood with a bit of honey surrounding it and maybe a frame full on the out side of the boxes.

We may have 45 days before we get a killing frost. then there will be nothing for the bees to collect except maybe some wild flowers that were covered to protect from frost., but that is here at home.

. Al


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## txsteele (Nov 19, 2014)

Well Al, that’s why I prefaced my comment with “there are guys on here with WAY MORE experience than me”. 

I won’t get into a pissing contest with you. 

You and I must have read his comment differently.


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## cityfeet (Feb 1, 2015)

txsteele said:


> You can buy a Queen for about $35-45 ish shipped over night


I've had to do that before. Now, I'm far from the most experienced also, but my concern about adding a queen at this point is whether there would be drones flying around for mating. I heard once that that's seasonal, for lack of a better way of putting it. Not sure if there's ANY truth to that but definitely something I'd have to research and consider if that was the direction I needed to go


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## cityfeet (Feb 1, 2015)

alleyyooper said:


> All I can say it is good your south.


This is true. We won't hit freezing temps until November timeframe and will start having warm days in Feb/Mar, but still risk frosts in April


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## ed/La (Feb 26, 2009)

Cityfeet I think you are doing fine. You do need to inspect brood to see where you are at.


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## alleyyooper (Apr 22, 2005)

If you buy a queen no need to worry about drones. they are supposed to be mated already.

Also no pissing match just not something that should be done here in the north and never with out looking at the bottom box.

 Al


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## cityfeet (Feb 1, 2015)

Good point about the queens being mated. I didn't think of that.

And I didn't take what you said in a negative way at all. I recognize that you are absolutely correct and in the north (I grew up in New England) the colder weather is right around the corner


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## RonTgottagoat (Feb 27, 2014)

I was thinking a mates queen as well. Lapped bee supply had mated caronolian, saskatraz, and an Italian hybrid for like $34 dollars. I think shipping was $12. My saz queen I got from them has turned into a strong hive. I made the split June 2 and it’s in two boxes. Marked queen was cool as it’s helped me have confidence in looking for a queen. I think it’s helped me find unmarked ones in my other hives.


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## cityfeet (Feb 1, 2015)

RonTgottagoat said:


> Marked queen was cool as it’s helped me have confidence in looking for a queen. I think it’s helped me find unmarked ones in my other hives.


 I've done the same when I've bought them. An extra $5 goes a long way in making sure that she's integrated with the hive alright.


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## RonTgottagoat (Feb 27, 2014)

What happened with your hive? Requiem or combined?


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## cityfeet (Feb 1, 2015)

RonTgottagoat said:


> What happened with your hive? Requiem or combined?


I really felt it was honey bound and the best thing would be to take the honey and give them room for brood after cleaning it up. I pulled 6 deep frames from the top hive body and left 4. I just checked on it last weekend and the frames I emptied were already filled with honey and capped again. At this point I'll just leave them. This hive has been a survivor and was a swarm I captured. I've just gotta trust that they know what they're doing and will survive lol


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## RonTgottagoat (Feb 27, 2014)

Cool they are doing good.


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## Bob M. (Nov 5, 2018)

for TN I think you are fine. you didnt really explaign the setup you decided to go with though, ust to let us know....are you using straight deeps then, or do you have mediums or supersfor honey, and deeps for your brood chambers? I'm o ne to leave brood chambers to the bees to manage for the most part, unless i really sense something is wrong, and having honey in top of brood chambers gives a honey divide that helps the queen to stay where she should stay. There are studies that have shown survivability is better with two medium brood chambers opposed to two deep brood chambers, it was concluded there is something with timing that gives the cluster hesitation to cross the chamber divide. i run all mediums myself mostly, but i do have deeps for brood in some of my hives. I have 25 hives by choice, i do not want to handle more then that so cull numerous ones and/or sell them off to stay at 25. 
I am also a fan of the OTS system of hive management and queen raising. you being in TN, breaking the mite cycle may be something you may wish to look into with the OTS system and mock swarming.


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## cityfeet (Feb 1, 2015)

Bob M. said:


> for TN I think you are fine. you didnt really explaign the setup you decided to go with though, ust to let us know....are you using straight deeps then, or do you have mediums or supersfor honey, and deeps for your brood chambers? I'm o ne to leave brood chambers to the bees to manage for the most part, unless i really sense something is wrong, and having honey in top of brood chambers gives a honey divide that helps the queen to stay where she should stay. There are studies that have shown survivability is better with two medium brood chambers opposed to two deep brood chambers, it was concluded there is something with timing that gives the cluster hesitation to cross the chamber divide. i run all mediums myself mostly, but i do have deeps for brood in some of my hives. I have 25 hives by choice, i do not want to handle more then that so cull numerous ones and/or sell them off to stay at 25.
> I am also a fan of the OTS system of hive management and queen raising. you being in TN, breaking the mite cycle may be something you may wish to look into with the OTS system and mock swarming.


That's good info and some I'll have to look into. I have been running 2 deep broods and then mediums for honey. In the winter I remove the honey and keep the 2 deeps. I almost consolidated to one deep for the winter but don't think it gets cold enough here to need that. I did lose some to either freezing or starving last year but I'm including ventilation this year, will wrap my hives and hopefully put a windbreak in. I also added a vivaldi board.


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## Bob M. (Nov 5, 2018)

ya, without a doubt in my mind anyways the killer of hives from beeks is mostly humidity without correct circulation. people always go on about the cold, seen so many actually obsess even with blding elaborate contraptions to insulate and some even put light bulbs in their hives...but it isnt really the cold that is the issue, its the humidity and lack of proper airflow/ventilation. of course too much ventilation will freeze them out, up here and in colder areas, but TN, I wouldnt think so so much.


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## cityfeet (Feb 1, 2015)

Bob M. said:


> ya, without a doubt in my mind anyways the killer of hives from beeks is mostly humidity without correct circulation. people always go on about the cold, seen so many actually obsess even with blding elaborate contraptions to insulate and some even put light bulbs in their hives...but it isnt really the cold that is the issue, its the humidity and lack of proper airflow/ventilation. of course too much ventilation will freeze them out, up here and in colder areas, but TN, I wouldnt think so so much.


I'm leaving an upper entrance to help with airflow. I built my own vivaldi boards and the only thing I didn't plan for in the plans was where the vent slots were located. They seem to be covered by the outer cover's lip. Oh well. Live and learn. If I slide it forward some there should still be some escape. I'm also going to put burlap inside to soak up any moisture or condensation. It should also allow me to supplement food in the winter without opening too much of the hive and losing heat


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