# Jeffery Epstein Found Dead In Jail Cell



## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

https://www.foxnews.com/us/jeffrey-epstein-dead-by-suicide-found-in-manhattan-jail-cell

"Disgraced multimillionaire Jeffrey Epstein, who was accused of sexually abusing dozens of underage girls, was found dead early Saturday morning inside his Manhattan jail cell.

The 66-year-old Epstein died at the Metropolitan Correctional Center in New York City weeks after he was arrested of multiple child sex-trafficking charges, sources confirmed to Fox News.

An FDNY source told Fox News that he was transported out of the prison around 6:30 a.m. New York Downtown and was dead on arrival.

The initial call to the jail was cardiac arrest. There was no immediate confirmation on how he died, but multiple reports said Epstein died by suicide.

Epstein's attorney Martin Weinberg told Fox News on Saturday that he could not "confirm the rumor" that his client had killed himself."


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## Oregon1986 (Apr 25, 2017)

His fortune should be dispursed among his victims


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## HermitJohn (May 10, 2002)

Didnt he already attempt suicide in jail? I am surprised they didnt have him stripped nekkid in a padded cell. Maybe somebody decided to just save everybody all the trouble/expense and let him get on with it.


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## MoonRiver (Sep 2, 2007)

GTX63 said:


> Suicide huh....


Assisted suicide.


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

GTX63 said:


> Suicide huh....


I know what you mean.


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## GTX63 (Dec 13, 2016)

Edited my post


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## Oregon1986 (Apr 25, 2017)

Weather he did it himself or was "helped", i'm just glad he can't hurt anyone anymore


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## mreynolds (Jan 1, 2015)

Regardless, it's a shame we won't find the accomplices to his multi decade sickening pastime. Those are the ones I wanted.


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## Mish (Oct 15, 2015)

Should we start taking bets now on how and when all of the collected evidence against him will be destroyed or lost?


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## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

Oregon1986 said:


> His fortune should be dispursed among his victims


Mr. Pixie said the same thing this morning.


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## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

Mish said:


> Should we start taking bets now on how and when all of the collected evidence against him will be destroyed or lost?


Nothing could surprise me now.


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

How does a guy who already attempted suicide by hanging himself, then go on and try again, and succeed? That stretches credibility beyond the breaking point.

He was not on suicide watch, he was on watch the suicide.


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## wr (Aug 10, 2003)

Cleaned up. It might be a good idea to review the rules for political discussion.


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## mreynolds (Jan 1, 2015)

Love her/hate her. Agree or disagree she does speak her mind and doesn't care who is listening. 

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/poli...-dead-in-jail-cell/ar-AAFCJgp?ocid=spartanntp

I agree with her.


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## Mish (Oct 15, 2015)

Agreed. This should be something that people on both sides can unite on. 

There can't be any sacred cows here, even if they're on your side politically or we're just hypocrites that don't actually care about humans (and especially little humans) being abused.


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

S


mreynolds said:


> Love her/hate her. Agree or disagree she does speak her mind and doesn't care who is listening.
> 
> https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/poli...-dead-in-jail-cell/ar-AAFCJgp?ocid=spartanntp
> 
> I agree with her.


She is like a month, drawn to bright lights.


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

Mish said:


> Agreed. This should be something that people on both sides can unite on.
> 
> There can't be any sacred cows here, even if they're on your side politically or we're just hypocrites that don't actually care about humans (and especially little humans) being abused.


Absolutely..


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## mreynolds (Jan 1, 2015)

HDRider said:


> S
> 
> She is like a month, drawn to bright lights.


All politicians are. Difference with her is she will say what she is *really* thinking. It might even cause her to commit suicide one day so I admire her courage. Also if she yells loud enough others will follow suit in fear she will block out all that light from shining on them.


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## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

I believe that his death will break open the flood gates. All the girls afraid to say anything because of his power and gag contracts will speak up. I prefer he was around to face his accusers and live with his choices but many women will no longer live in fear.


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## Mish (Oct 15, 2015)

painterswife said:


> I believe that his death will break open the flood gates. All the girls afraid to say anything because of his power and gag contracts will speak up. I prefer he was around to face his accusers and live with his choices but many women will no longer live in fear.


I hope you're right. My fear is that his death (once it fades from the media spotlight) allows people with(a LOT of ) power to quietly bury evidence and get rid of witnesses who might speak up one way or another.


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## nehimama (Jun 18, 2005)

_Rep. Matt Gaetz (R-Fla.), who sits on the Judiciary Committee, called on the panel's chairman, Rep. Jerrold Nadler (D-N.Y.), to prioritize investigating the circumstances around Epstein's death over other probes being carried out by the committee.

"Chairman @RepJerryNadler should prioritize a Judiciary investigation into how Jeffrey Epstein died in federal custody (in Nadler's own neighborhood!) over the Kavanaugh confirmation (which already happened), and the Russia hoax (which never happened)," Gaetz tweeted._


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## po boy (Jul 12, 2010)

Did he make his fortune as a high price pimp and extortionist???


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## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

nehimama said:


> _Rep. Matt Gaetz (R-Fla.), who sits on the Judiciary Committee, called on the panel's chairman, Rep. Jerrold Nadler (D-N.Y.), to prioritize investigating the circumstances around Epstein's death over other probes being carried out by the committee.
> 
> "Chairman @RepJerryNadler should prioritize a Judiciary investigation into how Jeffrey Epstein died in federal custody (in Nadler's own neighborhood!) over the Kavanaugh confirmation (which already happened), and the Russia hoax (which never happened)," Gaetz tweeted._


The mods already cleaned this thread up once because of political stuff. More might get it tossed.


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## TnAndy (Sep 15, 2005)

painterswife said:


> I believe that his death will break open the flood gates. All the girls afraid to say anything because of his power and gag contracts will speak up. I prefer he was around to face his accusers and live with his choices but many women will no longer live in fear.




If someone high profile, in solitary, on suicide watch, can get "arkenside'd", what chance does some witness on the outside have ? The power remains in the shadows.....


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## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

He was not on suicide watch.


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## MoonRiver (Sep 2, 2007)

painterswife said:


> I believe that his death will break open the flood gates. All the girls afraid to say anything because of his power and gag contracts will speak up. I prefer he was around to face his accusers and live with his choices but many women will no longer live in fear.


I think they are more afraid of the other men involved than Epstein. Epstein was in jail, a basket case and most likely, would have never been a free man again. There are still some very powerful men with a lot to lose to be fearful of.


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

painterswife said:


> He was not on suicide watch.


Did they give him a rope?

Curious why someone who had attempted suicide earlier was NOT on suicide watch.


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## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

HDRider said:


> Did they give him a rope?
> 
> Curious why someone who had attempted suicide earlier was NOT on suicide watch.


I don't know but have read that they had not determine that he had attempted suicide. He was not even taken to the hospital.


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

painterswife said:


> I don't know but have read that they had not determine that he had attempted suicide. He was not even taken to the hospital.


I guess the red rope burns were a rash of some sort. Jails have lots of germs and bugs.


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## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

HDRider said:


> I guess the red rope burns were a rash of some sort. Jails have lots of germs and bugs.


Do you believe the facts matter? Epstein said someone else tried to kill him. There were no rope burns according to reports. Do you have evidence otherwise?


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

painterswife said:


> All the girls afraid to say anything because of his power and gag contracts will speak up.


They have no reason to speak up now, and he can't defend himself so it would be pointless.
Credible witnesses should have already come forward.


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## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

Bearfootfarm said:


> They have no reason to speak up now, and he can't defend himself so it would be pointless.
> Credible witnesses should have already come forward.


They sure do have a reason to speak up. Those gag orders are no longer in force now that he is dead. They can speak the truth about his crimes and support the women who were trafficked and the men who used them.


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

painterswife said:


> They sure do have a reason to speak up. Those gag orders are no longer in force now that he is dead. They can speak the truth about his crimes and support the women who were trafficked and the men who used them.


His crimes don't matter if he's dead.
If they wanted to speak up, they should have done so when he was arrested.

You haven't shown any proof of "gag orders" being used to hide crimes.


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

painterswife said:


> There were no rope burns according to reports. Do you have evidence otherwise?


https://www.mercurynews.com/2019/08...as-awaiting-trial-on-sex-trafficking-charges/


> He had been placed on suicide watch and given daily psychiatric evaluations after an incident a little over two weeks ago in which *Epstein was found with bruising on his neck*, according to a person familiar with the matter who wasn’t authorized to discuss it publicly. It hasn’t been confirmed whether the injury was self-inflicted or the result of an assault.


There's been nothing presented about what they found this time, so unless you have evidence to show yourself, you can't say conclusively "there were "no rope burns".

https://www.tmz.com/2019/08/10/jeffrey-epstein-dead-dies-suicide-jail/


> JEFFREY EPSTEIN DEAD *BY HANGING *IN JAIL ...


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## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

Epstein crimes are not the only ones. All the men that participated in this trafficking ring and those that helped him run it still need to pay for their crimes.


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## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

Bearfootfarm said:


> His crimes don't matter if he's dead.
> If they wanted to speak up, they should have done so when he was arrested.
> 
> You haven't shown any proof of "gag orders" being used to hide crimes.


His crimes weren't the only ones committed. He procured girls for others to rape. I thought that was completely understood, that *is* what sex trafficking is. The men that actually raped have committed a crime as well.


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

Irish Pixie said:


> His crimes weren't the only ones committed. He procured girls for others to rape. I thought that was completely understood, that *is* what sex trafficking is. The men that actually raped have committed a crime as well.


I am just asking this. Don't jump on me. Anyone can answer, but I put a special value on your answer.

Is an adult having consensual sex with an under age partner the same as rape?


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## Mish (Oct 15, 2015)

HDRider said:


> I am just asking this. Don't jump on me. Anyone can answer, but I put a special value on your answer.
> 
> Is an adult having consensual sex with an under age partner the same as rape?


There is no such thing as consensual sex with an underage partner.

Yes, it's the same thing as rape. They're underage, they can't consent.


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

Mish said:


> There is no such thing as consensual sex with an underage partner.
> 
> Yes, it's the same thing as rape. They're underage, they can't consent.


Thank you.


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

It is really troubling to think that 1,000s, maybe tens of 1,000s of men go to Thailand and other places every year to have sex with children.


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## JeepHammer (May 12, 2015)

Considering the personality type, I'm not surprised in the least.
The jig was up, he was facing a lot more criminal charges and a ton of civil lawsuits, not to mention he was going to get dragged to court endlessly for 'Conspiracy' charges against others... His ego simply couldn't take it.


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## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

JeepHammer said:


> Considering the personality type, I'm not surprised in the least.
> The jig was up, he was facing a lot more criminal charges and a ton of civil lawsuits, not to mention he was going to get dragged to court endlessly for 'Conspiracy' charges against others... His ego simply couldn't take it.


I think he could not take living in a cell with no sex slaves.


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## nchobbyfarm (Apr 10, 2011)

Or maybe the thought of him becoming one.....


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

Irish Pixie said:


> His crimes weren't the only ones committed.


I didn't say they were.
I only spoke about his.



Irish Pixie said:


> The men that actually raped have committed a crime as well.


I didn't say anything about rape.
I didn't say anything about anyone else.


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## Shine (Feb 19, 2011)

Interesting that for some on this site you are to be corrected for what you don't say but what they think that you meant.


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## Redlands Okie (Nov 28, 2017)

Oregon1986 said:


> His fortune should be dispursed among his victims


Neat idea. 

Problem is that he was not convicted. Other problem is with him gone it’s going to be hard to get him to give names in return for a different sentence if he was convicted. Or even use names if he did.


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## Shine (Feb 19, 2011)

Wonder where they found the look alike for the corpse.


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## Mish (Oct 15, 2015)

Shine said:


> Wonder where they found the look alike for the corpse.


My husband thinks they faked his death and he's sitting on an island somewhere drinking margaritas. Only half-jokingly.


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

I keep wondering about the culpability of the parents of these young girls that went with him. They bear some responsibility.


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## Mish (Oct 15, 2015)

HDRider said:


> I keep wondering about the culpability of the parents of these young girls that went with him. They bear some responsibility.


A lot of kids have parents who honestly just don't give a blank about them. I don't think that makes it OK for other adults to prey on them, especially since kids with no affection at home are set up to become the perfect victims for predators like these guys.


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

Mish said:


> A lot of kids have parents who honestly just don't give a blank about them. I don't think that makes it OK for other adults to prey on them, especially since kids with no affection at home are set up to become the perfect victims for predators like these guys.


That makes the parents culpable, either by neglect or maybe even selling their kids into slavery of sorts.

It is not an excuse at all. Don't take it that way. I am just saying there is more guilt than first meets the eye.


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## Mish (Oct 15, 2015)

HDRider said:


> That makes the parents culpable, either by neglect or maybe even selling their kids into slavery of sorts.
> 
> It is not an excuse at all. Don't take it that way. I am just saying there is more guilt than first meets the eye.


I know what you're saying, but I'm not sure what you do about it. How do you figure out the level of culpability? Having had teenagers myself, it's really difficult to know what they're doing and who they're with at all times, especially after the age of around 16 or so - and you'd be a weirdo if you tried to know what was going on with them at all times. Plus, they lie (even the good ones, now that my kids are adults they're letting me in on all of the wool that got pulled over MY eyes back in the day - and I even home schooled, that's how tricky they can be). 

And predators groom these kids so that they want to lie to their parents to be with the predators. That's how this game is played.

Even if you do figure out that they were negligent, what do you do about it? Are the parents a menace to society that need to be locked up for all our safety, or are they just a menace to their offspring in an existential sort of way? What is the punishment for that? We'd have a lot of parents sitting in prison if this was a thing.

If these were little kids (like dependent children that can't function without an adult) and their parents handed them over to these monsters, absolutely go after the parents. If you're talking about parents of older teenager who are just not paying attention, I'm not sure what punishment fits that crime.


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

Mish said:


> I know what you're saying, but I'm not sure what you do about it. How do you figure out the level of culpability? Having had teenagers myself, it's really difficult to know what they're doing and who they're with at all times, especially after the age of around 16 or so - and you'd be a weirdo if you tried to know what was going on with them at all times. Plus, they lie (even the good ones, now that my kids are adults they're letting me in on all of the wool that got pulled over MY eyes back in the day - and I even home schooled, that's how tricky they can be).
> 
> And predators groom these kids so that they want to lie to their parents to be with the predators. That's how this game is played.
> 
> ...


I had teenagers too. I would have been frantic if they went off like that, or gone missing for 12 hours.

At a minimum, after 24 hours they should have filed a missing persons report.

If family services can take a 5 year old kid from the parents because they left it in a car, or home alone, they should take a 17 year old for being alone with five 50 year old men on an island or a Palm Beach mansion.


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## Mish (Oct 15, 2015)

HDRider said:


> At a minimum, after 24 hours they should have filed a missing persons report.
> 
> If family services can take a 5 year old kid from the parents because they left it in a car, or home alone, they should take a 17 year old for being alone with five 50 year old men on an island or a Palm Beach mansion.


I'm not sure taking a 17 year old and putting them into a foster care system is a good solution. That's a whole other nightmare.

I'm just thinking about things I did as a 17 year old. Thursday night, "Mom, I'm staying at Becky's house for the weekend, I'll go home from school with her Friday and I'm just going to go to school Monday straight from her house." That gave me Friday, Saturday, Sunday, and Monday before anyone might notice I'm not where I said I was (especially if Becky isn't a narc). If my mom didn't really pay attention (and she didn't, honestly), I probably could have been gone a whole week before someone got concerned - assuming I looped my sister in, because she _could_ be a huge narc, especially if I didn't take her along.

My kids (both in their 20's) have admitted to pulling this particular scam on me and having it work, and I was definitely an involved parent.

Anyway, I can see how it could happen, even with parents that do care. Kind of goes along with the dementia post - you literally cannot watch people who are in the adult body/mental capacity range closely enough to not have them get away with something they really want to get away with. Even if it's a spectacularly bad idea.


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## GunMonkeyIntl (May 13, 2013)

Mish said:


> ...And predators groom these kids so that they want to lie to their parents to be with the predators. That's how this game is played...


Worse.. many who survive it become predators, themselves.


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

Is this a double entendre? -

Mayor de Blasio tweeted, “Some of wealthiest people in the world committed a horrible crime. If they think for a second that they got away with it because Jeffrey Epstein is dead, they’re dead WRONG.”


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## haypoint (Oct 4, 2006)

Irish Pixie said:


> Mr. Pixie said the same thing this morning.


I thought the same thing. But, I guess it isn't that simple. He hasn't been convicted of any crime. Upon his death, his assets go to whoever his will indicates. So, it isn't his money after death, but his heirs. I doubt victims of his can get money from his relatives. But I'm not a Lawyer.


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## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

haypoint said:


> I thought the same thing. But, I guess it isn't that simple. He hasn't been convicted of any crime. Upon his death, his assets go to whoever his will indicates. So, it isn't his money after death, but his heirs. I doubt victims of his can get money from his relatives. But I'm not a Lawyer.


His estate can be held while civil cases are in process.


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## haypoint (Oct 4, 2006)

from working in prisons, if someone is on suicide watch, a Guard is assigned to sit there and watch them. When a few days go by and no trouble, a psychiatrist interviews and makes an evaluation. Based on that evaluation, he may be taken off suicide watch. If he's off suicide watch, no one assigned to watch him and the Guards make their normal half hour rounds. Common.

I can think of a few people that are relieved that he won't be spilling the beans on the rest of the folks involved.


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## D-BOONE (Feb 9, 2016)

reading about everyone talking about his "crimes" I cant help but wonder if I missed where he had a trial and conviction?
Or maybe someone changed the legal system where it is no longer "innocent until PROVEN guilty"


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## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

D-BOONE said:


> reading about everyone talking about his "crimes" I cant help but wonder if I missed where he had a trial and conviction?
> Or maybe someone changed the legal system where it is no longer "innocent until PROVEN guilty"


He plead guilty and served a ridiculous bit of time. The prosecutor is being investigated and the courts already said the prosecutor did things wrong.


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## D-BOONE (Feb 9, 2016)

Epstein to plead guilty to two prostitution charges in state court. dont see where he plead guilty to anything else.


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## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

D-BOONE said:


> Epstein to plead guilty to two prostitution charges in state court. dont see where he plead guilty to anything else.


Yes the prosecutor made him a sweet deal and is being investigated for it.


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## ydderf (Dec 15, 2018)

Epstein saved the taxpayers lots of money nothing more spent on lawyers,judges,jurors,court employees etc. Lastly nothing spent on incarceration.


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## blanket (May 28, 2013)

so he was being retried for the same charge?


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## barnbilder (Jul 1, 2005)

haypoint said:


> from working in prisons, if someone is on suicide watch, a Guard is assigned to sit there and watch them. When a few days go by and no trouble, a psychiatrist interviews and makes an evaluation. Based on that evaluation, he may be taken off suicide watch. If he's off suicide watch, no one assigned to watch him and the Guards make their normal half hour rounds. Common.
> 
> I can think of a few people that are relieved that he won't be spilling the beans on the rest of the folks involved.


Based on your experience, would you say that someone with a lot of resources at their disposal, say like a former governor turned president, would be able to find a guard, or guards, or the guards boss that they could influence? Like how much do those guys get paid? Enough that they couldn't be bought? 

I mean, supposing you could have people that could look into personal information, know which guard had something they could be blackmailed with, which one needed money, which one had been bought before, if you had enough money, you could get a guy to forget to make his rounds or something. 

What about the shrink? I mean, if you gave that guy some money, he could not only sign a paper to get the guy off suicide watch, he could probably even prescribe him something that would make it more likely. 

Everybody has a price. All it takes is unlimited finances to be able to match it. Does your wife need a new car? Do you want her to have a new car, and also not find out about your side girl? Hey, we have a little island you should come visit. It belongs to a friend of mine, but sadly he can't be with us.


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## haypoint (Oct 4, 2006)

barnbilder said:


> What about the shrink? I mean, if you gave that guy some money, he could not only sign a paper to get the guy off suicide watch, he could probably even prescribe him something that would make it more likely.


In the words of Freud, "Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar." Any doctor can make a wrong diagnosis. With mental issues, its even harder. The process is never perfect. 

When an inmate needs to be moved to another cell, but refuses, going into the cell and removing him is hard. Seems like two Guards could go in and put cuffs on and bring him out. But reality is different than TV. Generally, we'd have 5 guards, a supervisor and a video camera operator. Each Guard assigned a arm or leg. Someone to hold his head away so he can't bite or spit. Guards put on helmets, pads, gloves. To an outsider, it might look like over kill. But its harder than it looks. Then the Warden combs through the video to insure every Guard acted properly. Often the inmate will do something unexpected and a split second reaction to that might be deemed an under reaction or an over reaction, often based upon the end result.

The prison can't keep everyone on suicide watch forever. No one wants their tax dollars spent on prisons. We want criminals "locked up and throw away the key", but don't want to fund that. 85% of the cost of housing convicts is wages. So, every prison cuts staff razor thin. Segregation is costly. Suicide watch more so.

So, we can just give up with the hindsight that he should have remained on suicide watch. Those determinations are made every day all over the country.

Often a prisoner that is a risk of suicide won't get a blanket or sheet. They are issued a one piece quilted pull over. A sort of sack with an opening for head and arms. Often called "Bam Bam Suit", for the characters in the Flintstone cartoon.

But making a Billionaire sleep on a plastic covered mattress, without a sheet and pillow might be seen as needlessly cruel. People are not sent to prison to be punished, prison is the punishment. Decades of Liberal Federal Judges have set minimum standards well ahead of the living conditions of many non-criminals. After a "shrink" declared him not to be a suicide risk, how could you justify confiscating his bedding?


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## haypoint (Oct 4, 2006)

What you are seeing is the difficulty of Prison work.

Hindsight is 20/20. The News is questioning why he was alone in his cell, that's not normal. But if he did have a cellmate, they'd question if he was murdered. If I was an inmate, I wouldn't want to lock with a high profile inmate.

Normally, inmates are checked randomly twice an hour. Early reports say he hadn't been checked for several hours. This is a common concern. When I supervised a 92 cell Segregation Unit, each cell had a door card. Guards put the time and initial each card, 16 times every shift.
Some guards would make fewer rounds and write in extra times. During meal delivery and pick up, while staff are actively communicating with prisoners, some staff would wait until this busy time was over and "catch up" the door card. During the shift, inmates are put in belly chains and hand cuffs for their shower or for an hour in an outside exercise cage. These escorts eat up a lot of the shift, so sometimes a notation on the door card is missed. The door cards are records and are stored for 7 years.

Sounds like the Guard failed to make all his required rounds. Also sounds like he worked at least 5 double shifts, this week. Not an excuse, but easier to see that in a quiet middle of the night shift, he may have not been as active as required. But understaffing and the resulting massive overtime results in burnout. I worked 80 hours in a week, many times. Countless 96 hour weeks. That's working double shifts on my "weekend", plus an extra 8 hours on each of the other 5 work days. Deducting an hour travel time to work and an hour getting home, leaves 42 hours a week to sleep, shop, laundry, pay bills, mow lawn, etc.

I'd expect the security camera will be reviewed and the Guard will be fired. Then, the past month's security footage reviewed and his supervisor will be fired if there were many missed security rounds.

In 1990, I had 5 officers in the 92 cell Segregation Unit. When I retired, 16 years later, there was no full time supervisor, just Supervisors from other areas that stopped in during peak activity. Number of Guards dropped to 4 Guards. A bunk bed had been added to every cell, making it a 184 inmate Detention unit. Out of the 1200 prisoners at this one prison, the 184 were the most disruptive/assaultive.


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

So @haypoint you think the Epstein thing is just another day at work?


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## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

There are reports that Epstein's lawyer asked him to be removed from Suicide watch.


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

painterswife said:


> There are reports that Epstein's lawyer asked him to be removed from Suicide watch.


Why?


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## haypoint (Oct 4, 2006)

HDRider said:


> So @haypoint you think the Epstein thing is just another day at work?


If he wasn't a billionaire, sadly yes.
That's not to say prisoners commit suicide often. Just the wide variety of events make it less memorable.

Inmate seen swallowing a balloon of drugs while visiting girlfriend. Inmate put in cell and water turned off. After a bowel movement, inmate taken out of cell and the turd examined with a plastic bread knife. This goes on for a week and no sign of the drugs. Eventually, we discover he is crapping out the balloon of drugs, then swallowing it before we examine the feces. Finding him with drugs would get this repeat offender a life sentence, so eating your own poop not as unthinkable. Just another day.

When an inmate was found hanged, from a bed frame 24 inches off the ground, he tied his sheet around his neck and moved from seated on the floor to laying on the floor, void of the last second attempt to survive. Great show of willpower.

Inmate pulled the heavy thread used to hold his mattress together. When he had about ten feet, he tieed a tee shirt to the end and forced it down the toilet. Once the tee was in a larger sewer pipe, he tied off the other end in his cell. within a few hours, it created a clog. He then released it and the tee shirt traveled 150 feet further, before clogging the pipe. Eventually, the toilets in the lower level of the cell block began to flood. When the inmates on the upper level figured out what was happening, they all began to flush their toilets, adding hundreds of gallons of sewage erupting from those toilets. Each toilet control valve is behind a locked door at each cell. So, it took staff several minutes to get the water shut off. Took quite a bit to get the sewer cable deep enough to pull it out.


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## Evons hubby (Oct 3, 2005)

HDRider said:


> I had teenagers too. I would have been frantic if they went off like that, or gone missing for 12 hours.
> 
> At a minimum, after 24 hours they should have filed a missing persons report.
> 
> If family services can take a 5 year old kid from the parents because they left it in a car, or home alone, they should take a 17 year old for being alone with five 50 year old men on an island or a Palm Beach mansion.


Why take seventeen year olds who have five adults supervising them?


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## dyrne (Feb 22, 2015)

It is not unusual for girls much younger than that to be chaperoned while traveling for modeling work... which is the front they relied on for the majority of their use of these girls. I'm not saying I would allow any kid of mine anywhere near any situation like that but it is as routine as sending your kids on a church trip for a lot of families. 

Anyway, anyone who believes this is about simply his crimes and the people he facilitated having access to these girls is fooling themselves.


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## HermitJohn (May 10, 2002)

Oregon1986 said:


> His fortune should be dispursed among his victims


You mean divvied up between the victims lawyers, dont you?


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## haypoint (Oct 4, 2006)

dyrne said:


> It is not unusual for girls much younger than that to be chaperoned while traveling for modeling work... which is the front they relied on for the majority of their use of these girls.


Recently Dr. Nasser had been treating gymnastic athletes for decades with great results. But mixed in with his good work, he was fondling young women, using a procedure as a cover for his activities.

Many people questioned how this could go on so long, unreported. But gymnasts are accustomed to being touched and accustomed to be scantily clad. Parents just learned to accept it. The focus was on being a World class athlete, with little reflection on what was going on.

Seems there were plenty of parents eager to let their children spend the weekend with Michael Jackson, despite numerous rumors of molestation.

Seems plenty of women are eager to share a bed with great athletes, rock stars, movie stars and the very wealthy. The law says they cannot consent to sex until they turn 17, so there is no debate on "Does a 14 year old know she is exchanging her body for money."


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## light rain (Jan 14, 2013)

ydderf said:


> Epstein saved the taxpayers lots of money nothing more spent on lawyers,judges,jurors,court employees etc. Lastly nothing spent on incarceration.


IF he was doing the saving...


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## light rain (Jan 14, 2013)

haypoint said:


> I thought the same thing. But, I guess it isn't that simple. He hasn't been convicted of any crime. Upon his death, his assets go to whoever his will indicates. So, it isn't his money after death, but his heirs. I doubt victims of his can get money from his relatives. But I'm not a Lawyer.


He had no children as far as I could tell..


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## mreynolds (Jan 1, 2015)

Eipstein's island was raided yesterday. At least they are still looking for others involved.


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## CKelly78z (Jul 16, 2017)

In MY mind, I wonder if he is truly dead, or whisked away under protective custody by the powers that be, who have all of the money/influence. He would be able to live out his days in relative seclusion to keep his deep/dark secrets in his own mind. He has alot of world leaders, and politicians as friends who don't want THEIR secrets revealed. 

He basically told everyone that if he died, or was to rot in prison, that all of his client's twisted fantasy weekends would be detailed in a press release.


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## haypoint (Oct 4, 2006)

What we are seeing here is typical Prison operations.
Everything is second guessed. If he was with a cellmate, then found dead, that would be wrong. Since he was alone in his cell, that's not normal. That he was taken off suicide watch is now wrong. If he'd been deprived of his sheets after being determined to not be a risk to himself.
Guard working 80 hour weeks is fine, until the burnout effects the job. Attracting people to this tough job, supplying training, while maintaining low wages, is hard. Often paying existing workers overtime pay is less costly than training and benefits for more employees. Starting pay around $15 an hour and no pension.

Back in the 1980s, several Michigan prisons experienced riots. Afterwards, it was determined that a lack of staff training and too few staff were main causes. So, for awhile, we had extra training and more staff. But gradually that all slipped away. You see, we have a whole new group of law makers. No one gets re-elected by giving more money to prisons. Now, it isn't uncommon for a prison to hold 1200 prisoners, most able to enter and exit cells at will, staffed by 30 Corrections Officers.


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## markt1 (Dec 15, 2013)

First Epstein loses his suicide watch status which means no cameras on him. Then a judge releases incriminating underage sexual crime documentation specificly naming Clinton, a former governor, and a former senate majority leader. The very next day the only possible witness is removed from Epstein's cell. That night both guards fail to do their rounds, leaving him unwatched, alone, and vulnerable. And in the morning at the change of shifts he is found dead. After the EMTs arrive a tipped-off ABC News breaks the news to the world, not prison officials. No comments or official information is released by the people in charge for six hours. And powerful people breathe a sigh of relief. Anyone think this chain of suspicious events is all just random coincidences? Really???


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## haypoint (Oct 4, 2006)

markt1 said:


> And powerful people breathe a sigh of relief. Anyone think this chain of suspicious events is all just random coincidences? Really???


Each of us draw our own "line in the sand" as to what is a conspiracy and what's coincidence.
Way over on one side, we have the Chem Trail believers, Flat Earth and Area 51 believers. As we move farther, we get the Big Foot, CIA blew up the World Trade Center and faked moon landing. Way over on the other extreme, we have those that think the Clinton Foundation is legit, CNN is fair and balanced and the number of suicides among Clinton associates is normal. Most of us are between these two extremes.


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## Mish (Oct 15, 2015)

haypoint said:


> What we are seeing here is typical Prison operations.
> Everything is second guessed. If he was with a cellmate, then found dead, that would be wrong. Since he was alone in his cell, that's not normal. That he was taken off suicide watch is now wrong. If he'd been deprived of his sheets after being determined to not be a risk to himself.
> Guard working 80 hour weeks is fine, until the burnout effects the job. Attracting people to this tough job, supplying training, while maintaining low wages, is hard. Often paying existing workers overtime pay is less costly than training and benefits for more employees. Starting pay around $15 an hour and no pension.
> 
> Back in the 1980s, several Michigan prisons experienced riots. Afterwards, it was determined that a lack of staff training and too few staff were main causes. So, for awhile, we had extra training and more staff. But gradually that all slipped away. You see, we have a whole new group of law makers. No one gets re-elected by giving more money to prisons. Now, it isn't uncommon for a prison to hold 1200 prisoners, most able to enter and exit cells at will, staffed by 30 Corrections Officers.


I'm with you to a point, I want to assume it's incompetence. But do you really think that someone of Epstein's visibility/political pull wouldn't be given a little extra "watching"?

Someone I know pretty well keeps bringing up the fact that other high visibility prisoners, like El Chapo, have been successfully kept alive in prison. It's interesting that when the government/power structure wants to keep you alive to make a point, they can and do. When there's a prisoner that might affect the very same people high up in the government/power structure in a negative way if he goes to trial, he ends up dead due to "staff shortages" and "ineptitude."

It is extremely fishy. I want to believe, I just can't.


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## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

Epstein chose to end his life. He played the game with his lawyers and the doctors and took his chance when he could. El Chapp was trying to break out and had a history of it. He was not trying to kill himself.


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## emdeengee (Apr 20, 2010)

The death will not stop the investigation. Epstein's girl friend is considered to be his partner and pimp or perhaps the correct term is madam. She is also under investigation. The French are also after him and his friends as they now know some of his crimes took place on French soil. I doubt this will disappear easily.

Lots of names under investigation. Apparently a Canadian PM is also on the list. They have not named him but I bet it is Trump's buddy. Trump has as much to worry about as Clinton or Prince Andrew.


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## Mish (Oct 15, 2015)

painterswife said:


> Epstein chose to end his life. He played the game with his lawyers and the doctors and took his chance when he could. El Chapp was trying to break out and had a history of it. He was not trying to kill himself.


There are systems for people who want to kill themselves. You tend to watch them more closely than people who haven't shown that proclivity. Apparently, even though they say he was suicidal prior to him killing himself, no one put any extra effort into making sure he didn't. They didn't even put normal effort into making sure he didn't. They went all the way to ineptitude level of making sure it was easy for him to accomplish.

If the system didn't want him to be dead, he wouldn't be. So we're down to either not caring if he died or wanting him to die. Both options suck for the victims and future prosecutions of other despicable human being still freely walking the face of the earth, one option is just much more sinister than the other.

My opinion, I'm OK with disagreement.



emdeengee said:


> The death will not stop the investigation. Epstein's girl friend is considered to be his partner and pimp or perhaps the correct term is madam. She is also under investigation. The French are also after him and his friends as they now know some of his crimes took place on French soil. I doubt this will disappear easily.
> 
> Lots of names under investigation. Apparently a Canadian PM is also on the list. They have not named him but I bet it is Trump's buddy. Trump has as much to worry about as Clinton or Prince Andrew.


I keep saying I hope people are right about this. I also keep saying I'm afraid that when the media has grown bored with the story, it'll slowly disappear. Some low-level lackeys will get in trouble - prison guards are the first in the pattern I'm expecting, maybe a supervisor - and the real perpetrators will skate as they always do when they have enough money and power to do so, until they make more powerful/rich people angry at them. 

I honestly hope you're right. I'm not holding my breath, though.


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## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

There is a big difference between a system not wanting him dead and wanting him dead.

He fooled them. He played the game and they thought the risk was lowered. Combined with overworked and inattentive guards he did what he wanted. He could not handle living in a cell. He would have found a way to do it. Making it into a conspiracy is what certain government officials want to take the heat off of them.


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## The Paw (May 19, 2006)

emdeengee said:


> The death will not stop the investigation. Epstein's girl friend is considered to be his partner and pimp or perhaps the correct term is madam. She is also under investigation. The French are also after him and his friends as they now know some of his crimes took place on French soil. I doubt this will disappear easily.
> 
> Lots of names under investigation. *Apparently a Canadian PM is also on the list.* They have not named him but I bet it is Trump's buddy. Trump has as much to worry about as Clinton or Prince Andrew.


The court documents do not specify the nationality of the "well-known Prime Minister". So while it might be Canadian, it could also be Israeli, British, Australian or a half dozen other countries. 

Given that Trudeau did not become Prime Minister until 2015, I don't think it is likely to be him, and Stephen Harper just seems way too strait-laced. I'm guessing its not a Canadian politician, but I suppose one never knows...

*on edit - the following link is to a Gawker article which has Epstein's "little black book" imbedded. Former Israeli PM Barak is listed there. No listings for Harper or Trudeau.

https://gawker.com/here-is-pedophile-billionaire-jeffrey-epsteins-little-b-1681383992


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## AmericanStand (Jul 29, 2014)

HDRider said:


> I had teenagers too. I would have been frantic if they went off like that, or gone missing for 12 hours.
> 
> At a minimum, after 24 hours they should have filed a missing persons report.
> 
> If family services can take a 5 year old kid from the parents because they left it in a car, or home alone, they should take a 17 year old for being alone with five 50 year old men on an island or a Palm Beach mansion.


 Would you prosecute the 17-year-old as an adult if that 17-year-old broke into the home of five mentally deficient 50-year-old men and sliced their arms and legs off of them before slitting their throat’s?


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## emdeengee (Apr 20, 2010)

The Paw said:


> The court documents do not specify the nationality of the "well-known Prime Minister". So while it might be Canadian, it could also be Israeli, British, Australian or a half dozen other countries.
> 
> Given that Trudeau did not become Prime Minister until 2015, I don't think it is likely to be him, and Stephen Harper just seems way too strait-laced. I'm guessing its not a Canadian politician, but I suppose one never knows...
> 
> ...



Mulroney. Martin. Chretien.


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## newfieannie (Dec 24, 2006)

could be I suppose but I wouldn't think either one of those 3 jmo of course


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## Mish (Oct 15, 2015)

Here go the low level lackeys, the warden, of course, was just transferred to a different position pending investigation.

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/08/13/...html?smid=nytcore-ios-share#commentsContainer

_"The two staff members who were guarding the jail unit where Jeffrey Epstein apparently killed himself fell asleep, failed to check on him for about three hours and falsified records to cover up their mistake, according to several law enforcement and prison officials with knowledge of the matter. 

Those disclosures came on Tuesday *as the two employees were placed on administrative leave and the warden of the jail, the Metropolitan Correctional Center in Manhattan, was temporarily reassigned*, pending the outcome of the investigation into Mr. Epstein’s death, the Justice Department announced. 

The two staff members in the special housing unit where Mr. Epstein was held — 9 South — falsely recorded in a log that they had checked on the financier, who was facing sex trafficking charges, every 30 minutes, as was required, two of the officials said. *Such false entries in an official log could constitute a federal crime.*"_


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## manfred (Dec 21, 2005)

I worked in a youth prison form a couple of years.
We had one youth (about 17) that was under suicide watch. Two people with him 24/7 where one could take breaks when needed.
I find it hard to believe that they let this happen to Epstein. The US has plenty of money for this kind of thing. I've seen the money they waste at the State Dept. 20 years ago they would pay $8000 to transport state workers junk cars to sit inthe parking lot in Moscow and after 2 years send it on to their next post.


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

painterswife said:


> Epstein chose to end his life.


Maybe, maybe not.
We will probably never really know.



painterswife said:


> Making it into a conspiracy is what certain government officials want to take the heat off of them.


His death only makes them look more suspicious.


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## Riverdale (Jan 20, 2008)

Oregon1986 said:


> Weather he did it himself or was "helped", i'm just glad he can't hurt anyone anymore


And totally unable to narc anyone out #cough# Bill Clinton #cough#


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## Riverdale (Jan 20, 2008)

Riverdale said:


> And totally unable to narc anyone out #cough# Bill Clinton #cough#


Prolly going to "jail" for this  Because speculation is political.


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## GTX63 (Dec 13, 2016)

Pretty sure you can speculate about some folks and it is accepted and even promoted at good as fact, Ready the noose and raise the gallows.
Then for other people, and their wives, it doesn't matter if you are choking on the smoke, nobody seems to see any fire.


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

painterswife said:


> Yes the prosecutor made him a sweet deal and is being investigated for it.


I suspect the sentence was in line with what anyone else would have received for the same conviction. Some now want to imply it was something abnormal, but that's their bias showing.


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## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

Bearfootfarm said:


> I suspect the sentence was in line with what anyone else would have received for the same conviction. Some now want to imply it was something abnormal, but that's their bias showing.


I suspect it wasn't in line with anyone with the same conviction. Epstein's original sentence was a sweet deal, and was (perhaps still is) being investigated as improper.


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## nchobbyfarm (Apr 10, 2011)

It was the Queen. She had to protect the royals.


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## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

Bearfootfarm said:


> I suspect the sentence was in line with what anyone else would have received for the same conviction. Some now want to imply it was something abnormal, but that's their bias showing.


You suspect but the truth is a judge found that the federal prosecutors broke the law when they signed the original plea deal with Epstein. No bias just the truth.


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

painterswife said:


> You suspect but *the truth is* a judge found that the federal prosecutors broke the law when they signed the original plea deal with Epstein.


The truth is that's not the same as saying the sentence wasn't in line with the offense.
That ruling was based on a technicality on who was informed about the deal.


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## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

Bearfootfarm said:


> The truth is that's not the same as saying the sentence wasn't in line with the offense.
> That ruling was based on a technicality on who was informed about the deal.


A deal that keeps a rapist and child trafficker in a county jail only 12 hours a day. Free to have sexual trysts in his office during the day. I guess you might think that is in line with other sentences. I don't.


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

painterswife said:


> No bias* just the truth*.


Florida law:


> If the person prostituted is a child, prostitution and other related crimes are punishable by up to one year in jail and a fine of up to $1,000 for a* first offense*, and up to 15 years in prison and a fine of up to $10,000 for subsequent offenses.
> 
> (Fla. Stat. § § 775.082, 775.083, 796.03, 796.036, 796.04, 796.05, 796.06, 796.07, 796.08.)





> In April 2005, police of Palm Beach, Florida, began investigating Epstein after a parent complained that he molested her 14-year-old daughter.[4] After an investigation, prosecution, and plea negotiations, Epstein pleaded guilty and was convicted by a Florida state court of soliciting a prostitute and of procuring an underage girl for prostitution on June 30, 2008.[5] *He served almost 13 months in custody*, with work release, as part of a plea deal


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

painterswife said:


> A deal that keeps *a rapist* and child trafficker in a county jail only 12 hours a day. Free to have sexual trysts in his office during the day. I guess you might think that is in line with other sentences. I don't.


Your *opinion* really means nothing.
The sentence followed the laws.
Just the truth.

He wasn't convicted for "rape" nor "trafficking".
More truth.


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## mreynolds (Jan 1, 2015)

painterswife said:


> A deal that keeps a rapist and child trafficker in a county jail only 12 hours a day. Free to have sexual trysts in his office during the day. I guess you might think that is in line with other sentences. I don't.


I'm sure he was given that sentence in return for him keeping his mouth shut. 

I'm with you though, it should have been a different sentence.


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## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

painterswife said:


> A deal that keeps a rapist and child trafficker in a county jail only 12 hours a day. Free to have sexual trysts in his office during the day. I guess you might think that is in line with other sentences. I don't.


Most people don't think it's in line with other sentences of the same type. He was given an improper sentence so he'd keep his mouth shut.


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## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

He made a deal so he would not get sentenced and convicted for the really bad stuff. They did the deal without consulting the victims. That is illegal. The victims would not have okayed the deal. The entire thing stinks. The prosecutor himself should be charged. Epstein knew he could not get away with it this time and ended his own life.

His cohorts will hopefully pay and hopefully the men he trafficked the girls to as well. I also hope the women get his entire estate.


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## mreynolds (Jan 1, 2015)

Irish Pixie said:


> Most people don't think it's in line with other sentences of the same type. He was given an improper sentence so he'd keep his mouth shut.


I guy I know for years got thirty years. First offense.


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## GTX63 (Dec 13, 2016)

I haven't been inside today. Is he still dead?


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## mreynolds (Jan 1, 2015)

GTX63 said:


> I haven't been inside today. Is he still dead?


Think so


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## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

mreynolds said:


> I guy I know for years got thirty years. First offense.


Compared to the guy you know, Epstein certainly received a sweetheart deal.


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## wr (Aug 10, 2003)

This won't be cleaned up again.


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## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

Suicide by hanging is the ruling by the medical examiner.


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## mreynolds (Jan 1, 2015)

Irish Pixie said:


> Compared to the guy you know, Epstein certainly received a sweetheart deal.


Agree. And just goes to show you that you never really know everyone like you think you might.


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## mreynolds (Jan 1, 2015)

wr said:


> This won't be cleaned up again.


You are not the maid.


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

Irish Pixie said:


> *Most people* don't think it's in line with other sentences of the same type. He was given an improper sentence so he'd keep his mouth shut.


Most people just parrot what the media tells them.


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## wr (Aug 10, 2003)

mreynolds said:


> You are not the maid.


It seems my new job description is janitor.


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## po boy (Jul 12, 2010)

wr said:


> It seems my new job description is janitor.


Didn't someone on here have a mop bucket for sale??
I would not want your job WR, I bet the pay is great


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## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

Bearfootfarm said:


> Most people just parrot what the media tells them.


Again, everyone is entitled to an opinion. It might not agree with yours.


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## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

painterswife said:


> Suicide by hanging is the ruling by the medical examiner.


I trust the source of the article is acceptable to all? 

https://www.foxnews.com/us/new-york-medical-examiner-jeffrey-epsteins-death-was-a-suicide-by-hanging


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## TnAndy (Sep 15, 2005)




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## Redlands Okie (Nov 28, 2017)

Lol


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## mreynolds (Jan 1, 2015)

Irish Pixie said:


> I trust the source of the article is acceptable to all?
> 
> https://www.foxnews.com/us/new-york-medical-examiner-jeffrey-epsteins-death-was-a-suicide-by-hanging


Wait, soooo, you want us to believe an Irish?


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