# Man fined $5,200 for growing cucumbers in basement



## Ernie (Jul 22, 2007)

http://www.naturalnews.com/030983_food_freedom_British_Columbia.html

This is from our friends across the northern border, where apparently it's too cold to grow cucumbers year round.

I don't really know of any ways to grow plants indoors without using a lot of electricity. I guess you could generate your own power for the grow lights, but they still might find out through other methods. Purchasing orders, etc.

From the article:

*The grow-op bylaw programs used to search properties on the marijuana suspicions state that municipal inspectors can enter homes simply because they use excessive amounts of water. Once inside, there is no requirement that inspectors find any actual evidence of marijuana -- they are free to levy fines if they determine the presence of what they determine to be "residual" evidence, such as soil or even high mold counts. And if residents fail to comply with the unreasonable orders, they could have their house deemed unsafe and unsellable by local officials.*

With some of the draconian food laws coming to us now in the United States, it puts what's happening in Canada (where they already have such things) in proper perspective. In addition, we have many Canadians who fancy themselves opinion-makers in American politics, some famous and some not. It is of interest to see how those opinions have actually transformed into law in their country and then determine if we want them here.

As for myself, I think if we're going to grow food surreptitiously then it's probably going to have to be in some extremely isolated location.


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## Pelenaka (Jul 27, 2007)

The second year of owning my home I started seedlings in the cellar with grow lights & a heat mat. 

I'll set the scene - children and I are seated at the kitchen table eating dinner. Loud boom boom boom knock on the door that rattled all the windows. Tell kids to run out the kitchen door then down to the back door, jump the fence and hide in the lilac bushes in the vacant lot.
As I'm saying this my then 4 y.o. slipped away & opened the front door ... to let our city's drug task force in. Seems that they became aware of my grow lights when they were conducting surveillance on my street. 

They took one look at my pitiful set up compared to what the weed-man had in his basement, and left.

~~ pelenaka ~~


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## Ernie (Jul 22, 2007)

You're lucky they didn't do one of their famous "no knock" warrants. 

I tried starting tomato plants last year in my basement but I couldn't get the temperature up enough. My basement stays about 65 degrees year round.


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## Danaus29 (Sep 12, 2005)

Now I really need that hiding under a chair smiley. I've got lettuce growing in the basement. 

Columbus had meetings about doing that kind of thing, they wanted to use infrared cameras to check for abnormally warm basements. They decided wisely that it would be an invasion of privacy. But I do worry that it will eventually start to happen here.


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## Guest (Jan 13, 2011)

I guess some of our canadian friends are smoking cucumbers.


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## Karen (Apr 17, 2002)

zong said:


> I guess some of our canadian friends are smoking cucumbers.


Boy, that must take some big rolling papers; and how do they light those things?


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## mnn2501 (Apr 2, 2008)

Starting my seeds under grow lights this weekend


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## rkintn (Dec 12, 2002)

zong said:


> I guess some of our canadian friends are smoking cucumbers.


That would really explain alot!


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## mnn2501 (Apr 2, 2008)

http://www.vancouversun.com/news/story.html?id=4089708



> Len Gratto says there's no way he is paying a $5,200 fine to Mission, B.C., for growing cucumbers in his basement.
> 
> Gratto -- who has lived in the home for 30 years -- says he's raring to join an imminent class-action lawsuit attacking the municipality's grow-op bylaw inspections. A number of citizens, led by Stacy Gowanlock, allege their homes were illegally searched for marijuana grow ops resulting in them being slapped with fees and repair orders costing upward of $10,000 -- all on questionable evidence.
> 
> In a move that could potentially alter the landscape of drug enforcement in B.C., the *B.C. Civil Liberties Association says it will join the battle against Mission, B.C.*, widening the focus into a region-wide challenge to "home grow-op bylaws."


Next time you complain about the civil libeties organization remember they join in lawsuits against the government for stuff like this


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## PrettyPaisley (May 18, 2007)

I read this and must be missing something; what law was he breaking? Surely cucumbers are not illegal in Canada, right?


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## Ernie (Jul 22, 2007)

There is no law. By finding soil, water, and a setup to grow cucumbers the Canadian government is implying that he COULD have grown marijuana and issued an appropriate fine as if he WERE growing marijuana. 

In America you get arrested and thrown in jail for such activities. In Canada, apparently, you get fined.


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## julieq (Oct 12, 2008)

Ernie said:


> There is no law. By finding soil, water, and a setup to grow cucumbers the Canadian government is implying that he COULD have grown marijuana and issued an appropriate fine as if he WERE growing marijuana.
> 
> In America you get arrested and thrown in jail for such activities. In Canada, apparently, you get fined.


So, if he was growing marijuana he could most likely afford the fine. But if it was just cucumbers, maybe not?


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## Ernie (Jul 22, 2007)

Seems to me if you're going to have to pay the piper the same for cucumbers as for marijuana, then _grow marijuana._


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## secretcreek (Jan 24, 2010)

I always wonder if people driving by my place think I'm growing stuff...I allow our big outdoor senior dog to sleep in the basement in the wintertime and I leave a light on that shines out thru the little windows.


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## Peacock (Apr 12, 2006)

If all it takes is an abnormally warm basement, I'm in trouble because that's where our wood stove is!  An indoor garden is on my to-do list this year. Planning it for the fall.


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## ladybug (Aug 18, 2002)

zong said:


> I guess some of our canadian friends are smoking cucumbers.


The mental picture of this alone made my day lol :grin:


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## oregon woodsmok (Dec 19, 2010)

Yeah, I am expecting the narcs to come around and inspect my tomatoes and pet dwarf citrus trees one of these days.

There won't be any fines or trouble, here, though.


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## chickenslayer (Apr 20, 2010)

Lucky for him he wasn't making pickles


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## Ross (May 9, 2002)

I showed a picture of my 700 tomato and pepper plants to a RCMP officer, who looked pretty closely to see if it was as I said..... buddy of mine actually. Still waiting for the black helicopters. We do have some pretty nutty laws here, but we also have politicians who will change them when they go off track. Stay tuned, its one thing to have a stupid law passed, every country does that, how many get rid of them?


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## megafatcat (Jun 30, 2009)

I am troubled by what I read here and elsewhere. This is not the worst example, and I do not mean to single out Ross, but it is the statement that gave me my thought.
'I showed a picture of my 700 tomato and pepper plants to a RCMP officer, who looked pretty closely...'
Is this the action of a free citizen?
To my horror I find myself thinking and acting the same way. I must change or enslave myself.


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## texican (Oct 4, 2003)

Never looked into it, not having a dog in the hunt... but I always figured marijuana was legal up in the Great White North. 

It'd take me a while, but I'd get my 5200$ back, if nothing else, in satisfaction.


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## Pam6 (Apr 9, 2009)

Do you know how much water my family uses in a day??? I would be inspected for sure! With 6 kids during mud season...aka spring...I am sure they would find dirt in my house too!! I would be so screwed!!


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## Blu3duk (Jun 2, 2002)

Well a few years back a friend of mine was 'raided" by llocal law enforcement cause her power bill was excessively high, and she kept her curtains closed and the light was on all night.... which was enough for a warrant and the raid to take place......

she was raising parakeets and they fined her for having HEMP in her bird seed and said if even one sprouted she was guilty of breaking Idaho narcotic laws..... after several weeks the case kind of slipped away into the night but the red faced officials are still around and the lectric company still reports excessive use of power during the fall, winter and spring. 

i hear that if you hollow out the cuke and let it dry, its better than ordinary rice paper and lends a new meaning to "lighting up a fat one"

William
Idaho


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## Astrid (Nov 13, 2010)

zong said:


> I guess some of our canadian friends are smoking cucumbers.


They must dry them in their Excalibur first.


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## Ross (May 9, 2002)

> 'I showed a picture of my 700 tomato and pepper plants to a RCMP officer, who looked pretty closely...'
> Is this the action of a free citizen?
> To my horror I find myself thinking and acting the same way. I must change or enslave myself. <!-- / message --><!-- sig -->


Uh yeah I showed them to him, I didn't have to, and because he's a buddy of mine he looked at it. Where did I say I had no choice?


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## canadiangirl (Jul 25, 2004)

This is the same community that is making headlines with polygamy family issues. I didn't see this in the papers- Thanks for posting I will be following it now.


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## Dwayne Barry (Jan 9, 2009)

So if my reading comprehension isn't too off and I admit the original article isn't very clear... These folks are not being fined for what they were growing, they're being fined because they are suspected of growing drugs despite the evidence to the contrary.

Personally I'd legalize all recreational drugs and solve this ill-conceived drug war thing and address a number of other problems as well.


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## texican (Oct 4, 2003)

Dwayne Barry said:


> So if my reading comprehension isn't too off and I admit the original article isn't very clear... These folks are not being fined for what they were growing, they're being fined because they are suspected of growing drugs despite the evidence to the contrary.
> 
> Personally I'd legalize all recreational drugs and solve this ill-conceived drug war thing and address a number of other problems as well.


My libertarian side can't agree more. However, my conservative side says if you do partake of recreational drugs, and injure someone, you are responsible for all their bills, related to the injury, for as long as they live. If you refuse to pay, your sold into slavery. If you kill someone while under the influence, you're executed before the funeral is over... no ifs, ands, or buts. 

It'd be legal, but use it wrongly, and you will be made an example. Your body will be hung over the overpass going into town, or no overpass, from a stoplight or tree downtown.

Reckon there'd be any troubles with abuse?


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## Dwayne Barry (Jan 9, 2009)

texican said:


> My libertarian side can't agree more. However, my conservative side says if you do partake of recreational drugs, and injure someone, you are responsible for all their bills, related to the injury, for as long as they live. If you refuse to pay, your sold into slavery. If you kill someone while under the influence, you're executed before the funeral is over... no ifs, ands, or buts.
> 
> It'd be legal, but use it wrongly, and you will be made an example. Your body will be hung over the overpass going into town, or no overpass, from a stoplight or tree downtown.
> 
> Reckon there'd be any troubles with abuse?


I don't know why we need to treat users of drugs besides alcohol any different than we treat users of alcohol?


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## Tracy Rimmer (May 9, 2002)

texican said:


> Never looked into it, not having a dog in the hunt... but I always figured marijuana was legal up in the Great White North.


Why would you think that? Pot growing is a MAJOR problem in lower mainland BC -- IMHO, it wouldn't be a problem if they'd just de-criminalize it, but seriously, I don't think that that is going to happen. I know you US folks think that Canada is a pretty liberal place, but really, it's not. Maybe it isn't as "right wing" as Texas, but it's pretty conservative 



canadiangirl said:


> This is the same community that is making headlines with polygamy family issues. I didn't see this in the papers- Thanks for posting I will be following it now.


I thought the polygamy issues centred around Bountiful? Bountiful is in the Creston valley in SE BC -- not too far from Cranbrook. Mission is in the Fraser valley -- near the coast.


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## jtjf_1 (Nov 7, 2009)

The 5,200 dollars is not a fine it is a charge for the cost of the 15min inspection. There was no wrong doing. The city of mission has raised millions of dollars off this ploy and now a law suit is being put together against it. Council members have spoke out against this as a cash grab and it has started a fairly heated debate.

As for polygamy theres about as much of that in mission as there is in Halifax. Try good ole Bountiful for the polygamy game.


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## texican (Oct 4, 2003)

Tracy Rimmer said:


> Why would you think that? Pot growing is a MAJOR problem in lower mainland BC -- IMHO, it wouldn't be a problem if they'd just de-criminalize it, but seriously, I don't think that that is going to happen. I know you US folks think that Canada is a pretty liberal place, but really, it's not. Maybe it isn't as "right wing" as Texas, but it's pretty conservative
> 
> 
> 
> I thought the polygamy issues centred around Bountiful? Bountiful is in the Creston valley in SE BC -- not too far from Cranbrook. Mission is in the Fraser valley -- near the coast.


I reckon I was thinking more of the Eastern Provinces being liberal. I sorta remembered the Western Provinces were pretty conservative.

5200 for an involuntary inspection is a little steep. I 'spect folks wouldn't take kindly to it.

btw... I love Canada. Have traveled through a couple dozen times on my way to AK, and had long backpacking vacations in BC and Alberta. So, just wanted you to know, I wasn't 'dissing ya'll'....


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## jtjf_1 (Nov 7, 2009)

no worries tex one of my big laughs is when people out east complain were are so conservative here in the west.


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## Ross (May 9, 2002)

Well Texican if you're ever in Ontario give me a yell, you'd be very welcome here! Ontario swings left and right except for TO which is NDP/Liberal for the most part. Quebec votes for their wallets and for a French PM. The have nots like the Liberals for obvious reasons, the west (noy BC which is green NDP or Liberal) is conservative because the Liberals tried a national energy policy decades ago that would have left them as have nots. That'll stick for another 500 years! BC is for sale cheap, and we'll throw in Toronto as a capitol city. We'll dig the canal if you tow it away!


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## AR Transplant (Mar 20, 2004)

Well I'm still stuck on Pelenaka's four year old opening the door and letting the officers in. Did you have a little chat with the little tyke and impress upon him that this was a big no no ? And, as this is a learning situation, have we had enough chats with our precious little ones to never get the door? From my experience, it's a hard lesson to teach, around here, someone at the door is an exciting event.


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## Ernie (Jul 22, 2007)

AR Transplant said:


> Well I'm still stuck on Pelenaka's four year old opening the door and letting the officers in. Did you have a little chat with the little tyke and impress upon him that this was a big no no ? And, as this is a learning situation, have we had enough chats with our precious little ones to never get the door? From my experience, it's a hard lesson to teach, around here, someone at the door is an exciting event.


It's the same around here at my house. Because we homeschool, our children don't get exposed much to people we don't already know and approve of, so they sort of think that everyone who shows up at the door is a family friend.


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## MamaTiger (Jun 11, 2008)

Here too, someone at the door is an *event* that must be attended by every individual in the house, as we are also homeschoolers.

How can they claim that the fee charged is for a voluntary inspection when you didn't ask nor agree to the inspection????????????


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## ||Downhome|| (Jan 12, 2009)

Dwayne Barry said:


> I don't know why we need to treat users of drugs besides alcohol any different than we treat users of alcohol?


or people that are stupid,all on there own with out any external influences.


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## unregistered29228 (Jan 9, 2008)

Ernie said:


> It's the same around here at my house. Because we homeschool, our children don't get exposed much to people we don't already know and approve of, so they sort of think that everyone who shows up at the door is a family friend.


We're not homeschooled, but we lived on very long, secluded driveway and the only people who come here are their father and the UPS man, usually. The first time the UPS man came and all four kids exploded out of the house to go see him, I hit the roof. They are NOT to open the door, or go outside, if someone drives up.


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## naturelover (Jun 6, 2006)

texican said:


> Never looked into it, not having a dog in the hunt... but I always figured marijuana was legal up in the Great White North.


Totally illegal right across the country, however medical marijuana is legal. Some people can get a dispensation to grow (non-profit) medical marijuana for the medical marijuana Compassion Clubs who distribute it to patients who have prescriptions for it. Some people can also be certified to grow a restricted amount on an annual basis for specified individual(s) who have prescriptions for it. The growing of medical pot is highly regulated and subject to frequent inspections to ensure growers are complying with regulations.



Tracy Rimmer said:


> Pot growing is a MAJOR problem in lower mainland BC -- IMHO, it wouldn't be a problem if they'd just de-criminalize it, but seriously, I don't think that that is going to happen.


I concur with that. The lower mainland is the pot growing capitol of Canada and is a huge problem for all communities, whether in cities or in rural areas out in the Valley. Landlords are wary to rent out their houses or farm properties for fear of having the properties destroyed by pot growers (usually gangs) who are growing for profit. The damage that's been done to so many rental properties is heart wrenching to see and some houses that get stripped inside and damaged by mould and chemicals there's no recourse but to write them off and tear them down as condemned hazards. 

Another thing that happens is Asian gangs and Hells Angels buy or build new houses that they set up as very efficient, non-damaging grow-ops. They then blackmail, trick or otherwise threaten and coerce welfare recipients or gullible new immigrant families that they install to live in the houses and maintain the crops for them.

The quiet family residential neighbourhood that I presently live in, out of 24 houses on one block, there are 5 of them are illegal grow-ops and all 5 of those houses are upscale McMansions. They're all built and zoned as 3 family residences but each of them only has one family living in them on the upper floors.

If marijuana was decriminalized to such an extent that those who want to grow a limited amount not for profit but for their own personal purposes I think it would make a big impact on the gang activities and corruption that is now so prevalent. It would also lessen the amount of damage done to properties.

.


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## CarolT (Mar 12, 2009)

I keep waiting for a visit to my very warm outbuilding (between 80 and 85 F) and I'd love to see the faces when I pull my big Burmese python out so they can hold him...


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## Guest (Jan 16, 2011)

Wait til my marijuana/tomato hybrids come out. marimaters. "Man, I took one bite off that sandwich and I was tripping..... "sliced" will be the slang word for the high you get from marimaters. Every garden will have a little fridge with some bread and a jar of Dukes mayonnaise. And beer. Beer and marimaters, yea, that's the ticket.


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## Danaus29 (Sep 12, 2005)

Seems like Ross's buddy had no choice, "check this out! 700 hundred mater plants! Don't they look great! Bwahahahaha! Come on SPRING!"

texican, mary jane isn't legal but hemp is. You have to have a research licence.


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## zito (Dec 21, 2006)

Danaus29 said:


> texican, mary jane isn't legal but hemp is. You have to have a research licence.


You also have to plant a minimum of 10 acres worth. Can't have just a few plants, or a few hundred square feet of it. (at least in Canada, which is what I'm guessing you're referring to)


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## Danaus29 (Sep 12, 2005)

Yes, talking about Canada. Wouldn't be worth growing just a few plants if you want fiber.


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