# New Weaver = more questions !



## Miz Mary (Feb 15, 2003)

SO many questions in my head .... trying to understand setts and wpi 's ...

I figured there's more beginners here, so maybe my questions can help others as well ! 

1. I have some Fisherman's Wool .... wrapped it around a ruler and got 8 wraps in an inch ... does that mean my WPI is 4 ??? ( you divide the number by 2 ? ) 

2. If correct, will it work in my 8 dent reed ? ( probably "depends", right ? ! ) ugh ! 

Here is what I have figured so far ..... does this look right so far ?








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## kkbinco (Jun 11, 2010)

I haven't run your numbers yet, but a quick observation: 88 ends per inch! - uh, no.


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## kkbinco (Jun 11, 2010)

Ah, 88 inches warp length maybe.

Your numbers look OK to me.

Here are spreadsheet numbers I came up with. I added your fringe in with loom waste. Take them with a grain of salt.


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## lexierowsell (Dec 10, 2013)

Before I looked at kkbin's spreadsheet, I thought that your 4epi x 22" width would equal 88 total warp ends...

I'm even more new than you are though, so please ignore me.


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## Miz Mary (Feb 15, 2003)

How do you calculate shrinkage ?


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## kkbinco (Jun 11, 2010)

I guesstimate shrinkage at 10% for both length and width. This covers relaxation when tension is released from the loom and fiber shrinkage during finishing.


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## featherbottoms (May 28, 2005)

I'm going to suggest that you won't have to factor in 30" of loom waste for a rigid heddle loom as your 10" of fringe is considered part of that "waste". With a rigid heddle loom you can figure maybe 10" or so for warp waste. That's a total of 20" for waste.

I usually make my scarves 10" wide and approximately 110" long on the loom After wet finishing, I usually end up with approximately 72" of woven length, not counting 4-6" of fringe on each end. I use natural fibers and usually have about 2" of shrink for the warp. I also usually cut off about 2" on each fringe end to get to the 4-6" length I want. I never have 30" of waste on my rh loom.

All this depends on the type of yarn you are using. Acrylics, and other manmade fibers, will have little to no shrinkage during the wet finishing. All projects have some drawin, which is usually included as shrinkage. kkbinco is right, usually 10% is the standard unless you have tested a fiber and know for sure how it finishes.

As for the specifics of your project, how wide is your loom? (I think you've said before but I forget). You want a 22" finished project so I am guessing your loom is at least 24".

eta: I had my mil make an afghan for me out of fisherman's wool in the brown and creme. I washed it in hot water and it shrank at least 50% and it turned out a lot smaller than I hoped. I wanted it to felt, just not as small as it did.


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## Miz Mary (Feb 15, 2003)

4 shaft loom ..... reed is 22" ..... duh, just dawned on me .... final project CANT be 22" if you need extra for shrinkage !! 

On the Fishermans, I noticed one color is NOT 100% wool .... didnt know ! Good info that it shrinks up alot in hot water !


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## featherbottoms (May 28, 2005)

I had forgotten you got that 4 harness table loom, so yes, 30" is a good guess for yarn waste. But, you still count the fringe in that 30". If you learn to use a supplement warp you will have even less yarn waste. That's a good thing when you want to use super nice or really expensive yarn that you don't want to have to cut off as waste.

It's also good to make sure both your warp and weft yarn will finish about the same after wet finishing. You don't want to use a yarn that has 50% shrinkage with one that has 10% shrinkage unless you are making a collapse fabric or doing something else that needs that puckering look.


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## Miz Mary (Feb 15, 2003)

ohhhhh .... good thought about that pucker factor FB !!! Some of the Fishermans Yarn is 100% wool and some is 79 % wool ... 13% acrylic and 9% rayon ....


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## hotzcatz (Oct 16, 2007)

Miz Mary said:


> 1. I have some Fisherman's Wool .... wrapped it around a ruler and got 8 wraps in an inch ... does that mean my WPI is 4 ??? ( you divide the number by 2 ? )


I don't think the number is divided by two, I think the WPI is the WPI. So I'm thinking more than likely it's 8.


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## kkbinco (Jun 11, 2010)

Yes, the WPI is divided by two to find the maximum sett, this allows room for the weft to fit between warp ends. This is for plain weave, you would divide by less for twills and the like since you skip over some ends when weaving.


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## Miz Mary (Feb 15, 2003)

kkbinco said:


> Yes, the WPI is divided by two to find the maximum sett, this allows room for the weft to fit between warp ends. This is for plain weave, you would divide by less for twills and the like since you skip over some ends when weaving.




...always a variable :hair ....... so if Im wanting to do a Herringbone ( Point twill ) do I need a different sett number ?!?!


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## kkbinco (Jun 11, 2010)

Na! WPI/2 is a good max sett, rarely do you want to set max. Less than max will help with drape and perceived softness.

e.g. One of the charts I've come across, note the range in the recommended sets...


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## Kasota (Nov 25, 2013)

This all looks very complex.


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## featherbottoms (May 28, 2005)

Kas, it's not. Really.

You'll notice that the fewer yards per pound (ypp) the lower the sett number. Just means that the thicker the yarn the fewer ypp and the fewer wraps per inch (wpi). So if you have a really bulky knitting or crochet yarn, and you wrap it around a 12" ruler, you'll only get 4-5 wraps until you've reached 1" on the ruler. If you are using something like crochet or sewing thread you'll be wrapping 20, 50, 100, etc., just to get that same 1" of wrap around the ruler. Divide that number by 2 - because you have yarn on both the front AND back of the ruler - and that is your Sett, or wraps per inch (wpi).

Do a search for Weaving Terms or Weaving Glossary. There are many different pages with definitions.

The Glimakra page is very good http://glimakrausa.com/glossary/

and under "Warping Terms" has this simple definition for 

*Sett*: The number of warp threads per inch.

From this link http://www.warpedforgood.com/weaving-glossary/

*Sett*: The number of warp ends per measuring unit&#8211;inches or centimeters, also known as EPI or EPC. The sett is the density of warp threads per inch; as such, it is one of the key factors for producing fabric that works as designed for a specific use.


I also highly recommend these two books
*
The New Handbook of Timesaving Tables for Weavers Spinners and Dyers* by Bettie G. Roth & Chris Schultz - found here

http://www.bookfinder.com/search/?author=roth&title=handbook+timesaving+tables&lang=en&isbn=&submitBtn=Search&new_used=*&destination=usÂ¤cy=USD&mode=basic&st=sr&ac=qr

The first, and last, link on that page will give you the least expensive options for purchase.

and 
*
The Weaver's Companion* from Handwoven Magazine found here

http://www.bookfinder.com/search/?keywords=9781883010812&new_used=*&lang=en&st=sh&ac=qr&submit=


I have the 2nd edition, 5th printing of the first book. It's only 41 pages, but I use it all the time. The book from Handwoven is nice, and has most of the same things. I do think I like the Roth book best. Not sure why but maybe because it feels more complete for what it is - and maybe that's because it also touches on spinning and dyeing and the Handwoven one doesn't. But really, I can't recommend one over the other because I do use them both.

Now I'm off to get ready for my dyeing play date.


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## Osiris (Jun 9, 2010)

Woo-hoo! Great advice and links people. Thanks. Got some expert weavers here! Miz Mary, you're in good hands! I didn't know you divide the wpi by 2! LOL :teehee:

I'm just pluggin' along at the krokbragd. Makin it up as I go along. I'll post some pics when I get a little further. 

Hey SPINNERS! Found this 'must have' item for you all.  

http://www.woolery.com/store/pc/Spi...s-Most-Popular-Wheels-p13053.htm#.VEkPvhZHZFt


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## Miz Mary (Feb 15, 2003)

FANTASTIC info --- you guys are so helpful !!! Today I am going to make a raddle , but not sure if its used in both FTB and BTF warping ?!?! 

Cant wait for your pics Osiris !


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## kkbinco (Jun 11, 2010)

A raddle is used for BTF. It spreads the warp across the back roller while winding on the warp.


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## Osiris (Jun 9, 2010)

^5 Miz Mary! I've made 2 raddles. One with finishing nails and the other with dowels. You could use cotter pins if you want. 
First one I put the nails in at 1 inch spacing. That one I sold with the table loom. 
The second one I put dowels in at 1/2 inch spacing. Works fine. Nothing is cut in stone except like kkbinco said, you use it to spread the warp - but generally into 1 inch groups. Those groups are created in the counting cross while winding the warp. (opposite end of the threading cross)


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## Kasota (Nov 25, 2013)

Thank you all for taking time to post questions and answers. This is really educational. 

There is a whole new language to be learned. I will have to get a book. Mostly on this thread I have no clue what anyone is saying. LOL!


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## Miz Mary (Feb 15, 2003)

I joined a Guild !!!! A local Weavers Guild !!! They only meet once a month , but for only $25 a year you can checkout any mags/books from thier library .....you can rent a table loom for $2 /month !!! I can see and ask questions !!! I won 2 of 3 raffles and won some cone yarns ! They pretty much said JUMP IN and start learnin' as you go !! 

AND THEY WERE NICE !!!! Its hard to find a group in this rural area that dont have "police" and snooty folks ....


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## Osiris (Jun 9, 2010)

Good you got into a guild Miz Mary. We have one in this area but it's in Chicago and I REFUSE to drive into that city. The other problem here is that it's $200+ for a 6 week class....and most of them meet during the day. Fine for retired folks. I'd rather just take my time and learn on my own than go into that den of iniquity they call a 'city'! This way, every project is something I want to do rather than being forced to do something in a weave structure I don't really care for just yet. Crackle for instance, and block structure. I spoze I'll try them down the line, but I have no interest in them right now. I'll start with the basics. Plain weave basic scarves and rag rugs. Then maybe move onto finer stuff. Jumping in with both feet is the best though. Just like submersion is the best way to learn a language. 

Best of luck with you new guild MM. Bouncing ideas off other people and seeing what they're doing will inspire you a lot. Any progress on that scarf Miz Mary? We wanna see some pictures. I'm watching some fisherman's wool on ShopGoodwill right now. ;-)


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## Miz Mary (Feb 15, 2003)

Good luck on that goodwill bidding !!! My progress..... 
I cleaned my craft room and got my loom a spot where I can get around it ..... and made a rattle !! Found some paint sticks, need to drill holes in them for warp thingy what sits ..... and I need to put together my warping board tomorrow .... thats my progress ! hee hee hee ......


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## Osiris (Jun 9, 2010)

Ahh...the lease sticks! Yeah you'll need those. You'll find yourself looking at ordinary things in terms of 'how can I use that for weaving' now! It's a funny mindset but inventive.


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## Miz Mary (Feb 15, 2003)

OK, Im ahead !! I wound the warp today , and started putting it on ! I'm trying B2Front , have it wound on the back beam, the lease sticks are on the cross section .... 

QUESTION : when threading the heddles ( back to front ) do you read the Threading Draft ( Im doing a Point Twill /Herringbone ) from right to left or left to right when going back to front ??? ( It may not matter in this or other patterns --mirror image , but just for learnin' sake ! )


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## kkbinco (Jun 11, 2010)

I like to work and read threading right to left, where I'm at the front of the loom. Personal preference really.


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## Miz Mary (Feb 15, 2003)

kkbinco said:


> I like to work and read threading right to left, where I'm at the front of the loom. Personal preference really.


So, if you were at the BACK of the loom, which way would you read it ?!


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## kkbinco (Jun 11, 2010)

For your loom it's easiest to think of the tie-up guide(upper right corner) on the draft as being on the same side as your levers.

So if I were at the back I would work left to right and read right to left. However, I would find it awkward to thread heddles and slay the reed this way.


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## Miz Mary (Feb 15, 2003)

Thats what I was thinking .... next time I will warp F2B !

THANKS kkbinco, your a great help !!!!!!


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