# ram causes trouble with young LGD



## diat150 (Jan 31, 2015)

My LGD anatolian shepherd just turned one. Ive been trying to work him more into the herd but my ram keeps causing trouble. The ram wants to dominate him, so what usually happens is the ram will walk up to him, they will lick each other and sniff each other, then the ram will bow up on him. The LGD usually tries to get away but sometimes the ram will catch him off guard and "ram" him. Once this happens it usually angers the LGD off and then they start fighting. The dog doesnt try to really hurt him, but a few times he has nipped his ear and made it bleed. 

Im not sure what to do at this point. If I fuss the dog he will stop but then the ram comes right back and causes trouble. At the same time I dont want to confuse the dog and make him think he shouldnt protect himself if something is attacking. I try to discipline the ram but it doesnt seem to help. He is so persistent in wanting to fight with the dog. 

Hopefully has some experience with something like this. This is an older ram that I got about 7-8 months ago. Im thinking I may have to get rid of him and bring in a younger ram that may not be as mature and dominant. anyone have any suggestions?


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## diat150 (Jan 31, 2015)

this is a picture from about a month ago.


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## Maura (Jun 6, 2004)

The ram is territorial with his ladies. He is treating your dog the way he would treat another ram. My original ram also confronted my young border collie. The dog finally took a bite out of the ram&#8217;s ear and Santiago stopped directly confronting the dog. But, the ram was young and just feeling his oats. He learned early. If your dog has drawn blood and this has not stopped the ram, then I think these confrontations are going to continue.

You can separate the ram from the ewes. I have friends who run a separate ram herd. The ewes on one side of the house, rams on the other. If the ram(s) had his own area fenced off he could still see the ewes, but the dog could do his job.


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## motdaugrnds (Jul 3, 2002)

I had a similar thing occur with my large Nubian herd buck and my Karakachan (LGD) when my dog was young. I keep my buck with the does at all times and Valentina runs freely among them. In watching I would see Alginon (the buck) rear and even charge Valentina; and at such times Valentina would dodge the butting, jumping back yet returning to stand her grounds a few feet away from the buck. (This was more pronounced when the does were in heat.) Now both does are pregnant, the buck is not in rut, is still running freely with the does and I've often seen Valentina (now nearing 2 yrs of age) laying down beside that buck when Alginon was laying there chewing cud. In my situation it seems to have been a learning curve for the young LGD and the 9+ year old buck.


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## diat150 (Jan 31, 2015)

yeah the weird thing is it seems like they like each other. the ram and dog will lay next to each other when I have the dog penned up. also, when they arent fighting, they seem to be affectionate to each other. problem just starts when the ram starts treating him like a ram.


motdaugrnds, is your lgd staying with the flock full time now, or do you still keep them separated?


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## motdaugrnds (Jul 3, 2002)

diat, I've never really kept them separated. I brought Valentina home at 8 wks of age and put her (off and on constantly ONLY at night) into a small doggie pen I had constructed strictly for her that was inside the barn where the goats slept for only a few days. After that Valentina had free roam 24/7 with all goats, all chickens and my other dog. Of course, I spent a lot of time looking out my windows to make sure as to what was occurring ... mostly because I didn't want this baby Karakachan hurt. What I discovered was that she was spending a lot of time around the goats learning how to both entertain herself as well as interact with them in a way that didn't get her butted. The herd accepted her quickly. (Not once has she ever put her teeth on any goat or fowl even during play or defense.)


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## Woolieface (Feb 17, 2015)

I have nearly the very same situation. The ram and dog have a strange relationship. The ram likes to chase and sometimes charge her and she wants to play with the ram like its a dog. 

She's a young LGD, but she's always been taught no chasing, no pawing at and definitely no nipping at the sheep. She's very good most of the time but when this ram gets her going, she suddenly thinks that any sheep is also fair game for play time. 

Not knowing how to handle it either, I went with my instincts. I can't teach the ram not to act like a ram but the dog needs to know better. I don't allow her to defend herself against his charges, even in a "playfull" way. She learned to dodge. She is allowed to defend (or play defend) herself against other dogs, but if a sheep comes for her, she now knows she needs to leave the area, rather than engage. This seems to take the wind out of the ram, or makes him feel satisfied that he's won and the situation is resolved.


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## wiscto (Nov 24, 2014)

Good thread and input, thanks guys. Do your rams ever try to run the dog off completely? Anybody have problems with dogs not connecting to the rest of the flock due to rams? Are the rams only behaving this way when the ewes are in heat? TY in advance.


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