# "Failure to Thrive"?



## Cornhusker (Mar 20, 2003)

My 7 year old granddaughter is a bright, happy, active, healthy, strong, intelligent, beautiful little girl.
The school and the P.A. decided she's too small for her age, and she is in fact the smallest in her class, but not by much.
The school made a big deal of it, and now she's embarrassed because she's small. (She's not outside normal range, just at the bottom of it.)
According to one website I saw, the average weight for a 7 year old is 41-67 lbs and another says 48-50.5 lbs.
She weighs 46#
They have her on Ensure, and have set a goal of 50 pounds, and the whole thing has me kinda worked up.
I talked to her Friday and told her there's nothing wrong with her, and there's nothing wrong with the size she is.
I told her in every group there's someone who is the biggest and someone who is the smallest, and there's nothing wrong with it.
The school has her listed as "Failure to thrive" which is crap, because she is obviously thriving.
They have her mother afraid to even say anything in the little girl's defense, that "failure to thrive" thing sounds ominous and she's afraid of what the school might try to do if they don't go along.
It's like they want everyone the same, everyone must be an androgynous, fat little clone of everybody else.
All I know is that it breaks my heart to see my little girl crying because she's too small, and a system that makes a little girl ashamed of her body and her size is a bad system.
Obviously, I don't have any say in it or I'd be at that school ripping someone a new one.
Thanks for letting me vent.


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## Oregon1986 (Apr 25, 2017)

I hate when they pull that crud. I am sure I will get (Edited) for this but I don't take my son to the doctor unless I have too for this very reason. When my son was born they told me he needed a helmet and would need physical therapy because his head was misshaped.I refused and guess what, he's 4 now and completely normal. They have also always harped on me for him being so small. I'm sorry but if they seen how active he is, they wouldn't worry. My son eats healthy and plenty,i'm not worried. Your grand daughter is just petite,nothing wrong with that.


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## haypoint (Oct 4, 2006)

Every woman that I have met that lived well into her 90s started out short. Many very large people die young. Your Grand daughter will likely out live the school administration by many years.

When you mention P.A. is that her family doctor's P.A. or a school employee?


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## Seth (Dec 3, 2012)

Makes me want to crap in my hand and slap someone with it. Seth


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## frogmammy (Dec 8, 2004)

haypoint said:


> .....When you mention P.A. is that her family doctor's P.A. or a school employee?


Physician Assistant. Nurse who wants to be God.

Mon


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## The Paw (May 19, 2006)

I used to work in child welfare many years ago, and have never heard the term "failure to thrive" used to talk about a child other than an infant (less than 3 years old). That seems like a red flag to me, as does the fact that she seems close to average weight from what you say.

I would be getting the family pediatrician to weigh in, and if I didn't like their answer, I might ask for a specialist. It is possible an over-enthusiastic school nurse isn't staying in her lane....

Good luck.


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## haypoint (Oct 4, 2006)

frogmammy said:


> Physician Assistant. Nurse who wants to be God.
> 
> Mon


Yeah, I get that, but is the PA a person that is helping their family doctor or someone working out of the public school?


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## Cornhusker (Mar 20, 2003)

haypoint said:


> Every woman that I have met that lived well into her 90s started out short. Many very large people die young. Your Grand daughter will likely out live the school administration by many years.
> 
> When you mention P.A. is that her family doctor's P.A. or a school employee?


Family Dr P.A.


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## Oregon1986 (Apr 25, 2017)

Seth said:


> Makes me want to crap in my hand and slap someone with it. Seth


Lmao i'm staying away from you


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## Cornhusker (Mar 20, 2003)

The Paw said:


> I used to work in child welfare many years ago, and have never heard the term "failure to thrive" used to talk about a child other than an infant (less than 3 years old). That seems like a red flag to me, as does the fact that she seems close to average weight from what you say.
> 
> I would be getting the family pediatrician to weigh in, and if I didn't like their answer, I might ask for a specialist. It is possible an over-enthusiastic school nurse isn't staying in her lane....
> 
> Good luck.


I need to ask who it is at the school who is putting up the fuss.
My guess is the superintendent, the woman seems to hate kids.
She got in trouble for dragging a special needs girl down the hall by her foot. I don't know how she kept her job after that.
I guess I shouldn't blame her, I have no idea who it is at the school.
I've known the P.A. for years, maybe I should talk to her. I need to go get my hand looked at anyway.


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## Oregon1986 (Apr 25, 2017)

Cornhusker said:


> I need to ask who it is at the school who is putting up the fuss.
> My guess is the superintendent, the woman seems to hate kids.
> She got in trouble for dragging a special needs girl down the hall by her foot. I don't know how she kept her job after that.
> I guess I shouldn't blame her, I have no idea who it is at the school.
> I've known the P.A. for years, maybe I should talk to her. I need to go get my hand looked at anyway.


She needed her clock cleaned after a stunt like that


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## hiddensprings (Aug 6, 2009)

That is just plain stupid on the schools part. My oldest niece was in the same situation when she was in elementary school. She was little for her age compared to the other girls her age. She was thriving....she was just small. It took my sister taking pictures of her mother-in-law at the same age for them to back off. My niece had a growth spurt when she started middle school but has never caught up with her peers in size.. She is 24 now...still smaller than her friends but she has blossomed into a beautiful young women. I don't understand why schools feel the need to judge children on something so stupid.


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## Cornhusker (Mar 20, 2003)

Oregon1986 said:


> She needed her clock cleaned after a stunt like that


That little girl is related to the people who run the only tire store in town, so the super and her husband have to go 40 miles to get a tire fixed.


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## [email protected] (Sep 16, 2009)

My youngest daughter is a twin. her sister died at 2 days old. they both were just over 5 pounds at birth.
my daughter was the shortest , petite , child in the whole school.. today she is 6 ft tall.. she was in jr high when she started to shoot up..
forget about what the school is trying to do to your child. and who gives them the right to put your child on a special diet ??
personally, I would home school her if this continued.


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## Cornhusker (Mar 20, 2003)

hiddensprings said:


> That is just plain stupid on the schools part. My oldest niece was in the same situation when she was in elementary school. She was little for her age compared to the other girls her age. She was thriving....she was just small. It took my sister taking pictures of her mother-in-law at the same age for them to back off. My niece had a growth spurt when she started middle school but has never caught up with her peers in size.. She is 24 now...still smaller than her friends but she has blossomed into a beautiful young women. I don't understand why schools feel the need to judge children on something so stupid.


My sister was small, but back in those days, they weren't trying to make everybody the same, we were all unique in our uniqueness.
I was very skinny when I was a kid, and nobody can call me small anymore.
Individuality is frowned on these days.


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## haypoint (Oct 4, 2006)

Cornhusker said:


> Family Dr P.A.


Hummm..... Two different agencies, school and Doctor's Office came up with that. Do you think that there is anything about her family that might raise concern? Low income family? A father that looks like an aggressive controlling mean man?

Last year, it was discovered a large family that had many undernourished children. They had been kept in captivity for decades. All were child like from a life of starvation. No one in the neighborhood suspected anything.

When I went to the Emergency Room last month after falling and breaking a rib, the hospital staff had to go through a series of questions to determine I wasn't the victim of abuse. Failure to ask, gets them liable. Better safe than sorry.

As long as the school and PA can show they did something, they are off the hook and don't care now.


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## Cornhusker (Mar 20, 2003)

[email protected] said:


> My youngest daughter is a twin. her sister died at 2 days old. they both were just over 5 pounds at birth.
> my daughter was the shortest , petite , child in the whole school.. today she is 6 ft tall.. she was in jr high when she started to shoot up..
> forget about what the school is trying to do to your child. and who gives them the right to put your child on a special diet ??
> personally, I would home school her if this continued.


Sorry to hear you lost a child.
I'm a twin, and I was around 3.5 lbs when I was born, and my brother was a little over 5 lbs.
I was told I spent my first 10 days in an incubator, maybe they were trying to hatch me?
Fast forward, when I graduated, I was 6'2" and weighed 170, and my brother was around 185.
When my youngest son was born, I weighed 160.
Fast forward again, I had some health problems when I was around 40, and took a desk job...now I'm a long ways from failing to thrive.


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## Ellendra (Jul 31, 2013)

Threaten to expose them for discriminating against little people.

That word "discrimination" gets people's attention these days.

If they don't back off, follow through on that threat.

Body-shaming a child is just wrong.


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## Cornhusker (Mar 20, 2003)

haypoint said:


> Hummm..... Two different agencies, school and Doctor's Office came up with that. Do you think that there is anything about her family that might raise concern? Low income family? A father that looks like an aggressive controlling mean man?
> 
> Last year, it was discovered a large family that had many undernourished children. They had been kept in captivity for decades. All were child like from a life of starvation. No one in the neighborhood suspected anything.
> 
> ...


I think the P.A. is going along with what the school says.
It's a very small town with one school and one Dr. office basically next door.
I think probably my daughter took her to the doc and said something like "The School says she's too small" and the P.A. probably took it from there.
Like I said, I'm going to make an appointment to see the P.A. and see if I can find out what's going on.
I don't know that they are "low income", although "Daddy" doesn't work and is a complete waste of oxygen as far as most people are concerned, but I think he's a good dad as far as I can tell.
They live in a clean, comfortable home, with a couple good dogs and 1 cat.
The kids are well cared for, clean and healthy. They are happy and active.


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## doozie (May 21, 2005)

I thought it was a term only for infants too, appearantly now it is used to describe children and adolescents that are not developing as expected due to underlying health issues, or other possible reasons.

I'd get my child a check up from a different doctor.

Then I'd be looking into what ever the school said or did to cause her embarrassment regardless of the outcome of the doctor visit.


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## Nimrod (Jun 8, 2010)

There could be a couple of things going on. If your daughter is starving your granddaughter and the PA doesn't say anything then she could be in trouble. Standard CYA. 
The PA may need to justify her job. She makes things up to show she is necessary. Many bureaucrats do this. Bet we could cut gooberment in half with little reduction in services.
Maybe the PA is on a power trip, needs to feel important by scaring your daughter and granddaughter. 
Regardless of the motivation I would put a stop to it immediately. Could get very nasty if Child Protective Services gets involved.


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## IndyDave (Jul 17, 2017)

It is also possible that you are dealing with someone living at the point where Viktor Frankl meets Walter Mitty and has a psychological need to be the savior.


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## Mish (Oct 15, 2015)

My son had failure to thrive when he was born - he wasn't eating. Once he started eating, they released him from the hospital and away went the "failure to thrive" diagnosis. I had always assumed that was just for infants, and infants that aren't eating properly.

Regardless, you are right to be concerned about the label and the attention given to her size/weight. At this point in society, all of this attention on her little body seems to be the perfect storm to lead to an eating disorder later, which can really screw her up for the rest of her life - much more so than being small.

Unless she's obviously unhealthy or not eating, I wouldn't listen to any of the "experts." I have very little faith in doctors after years of them doing more harm than good to one of my kids. Listen to your gut. Good luck, I'm glad she has an advocate in you.


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## nehimama (Jun 18, 2005)

I hope you all get to the end of this soon, and that it all turns out well.


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## SLFarmMI (Feb 21, 2013)

Cornhusker said:


> My 7 year old granddaughter is a bright, happy, active, healthy, strong, intelligent, beautiful little girl.
> The school and the P.A. decided she's too small for her age, and she is in fact the smallest in her class, but not by much.
> The school made a big deal of it, and now she's embarrassed because she's small. (She's not outside normal range, just at the bottom of it.)
> According to one website I saw, the average weight for a 7 year old is 41-67 lbs and another says 48-50.5 lbs.
> ...


That would have me worked up too. Every child should be told that there is nothing wrong with their size, especially girls. 

Something seems off about this whole situation. In my whole career, I’ve never heard of a school putting the designation of “failure to thrive”. In my experience, any medical terms in a child’s file come from the doctor. School staff have no medical diagnostic authority and, if someone is tossing out medical terms, they are way over the line. The most we are allowed to do here is to suggest that a parent take a child to a doctor. 

Pretty sure I would be looking for a new pediatrician right about now.


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## Cornhusker (Mar 20, 2003)

SLFarmMI said:


> That would have me worked up too. Every child should be told that there is nothing wrong with their size, especially girls.
> 
> Something seems off about this whole situation. In my whole career, I’ve never heard of a school putting the designation of “failure to thrive”. In my experience, any medical terms in a child’s file come from the doctor. School staff have no medical diagnostic authority and, if someone is tossing out medical terms, they are way over the line. The most we are allowed to do here is to suggest that a parent take a child to a doctor.
> 
> Pretty sure I would be looking for a new pediatrician right about now.


I'm not entirely sure who tagged her with "failure to thrive", but I had it in my head it was the school. I could be wrong.


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## IndyDave (Jul 17, 2017)

Cornhusker said:


> I'm not entirely sure who tagged her with "failure to thrive", but I had it in my head it was the school. I could be wrong.


Don't ever forget that the crown jewel goal of the education system is to usurp the role of the parent. They put some sugar on it, but that is one of the big things I took from my methods classes.


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## Evons hubby (Oct 3, 2005)

My eldest was small fry until he hit about 18. Then he grew out of it. He's a bit over six foot today weighs in around 165 170 lbs. he's the one wearing the black hat and the grey beard.


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## MoonRiver (Sep 2, 2007)

Your daughter should ask what tests they used to determine failure to thrive. Was it just observation or were there any actual medical tests (blood, urine, etc) done. My guess is they just think she is too small for her age, but didn't run any other tests.

If she has a problem digesting or absorbing certain types of foods, that is important to know. She might have celiac disease or even a heart condition. It sounds like a nurse playing doctor and doesn't have the required knowledge to make this diagnosis.


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## wr (Aug 10, 2003)

If the child is eating a healthy diet, is active and vibrant, I see no reason to add calories to their diet. 

My youngest and his sister were well fed but lacked prepackaged and junk food in their diet and both considered at the bottom end of the scale. Thankfully, our doctor was pretty realistic and believed that healthy kids come in all sizes and shapes. 

My daughter remains a very tiny woman and anyone who looked at her when she was a child, would have quickly seen that she had very delicate bone structure, she also had muscle and a reasonable amount of body fat. She destroyed her knee a while ago and she's been away from her weights since before Christmas and she's still healthy, out eats both boys but without the bulk from weight training, most would consider her incredibly thin. 

My youngest was the smallest kid in his class until he started growing in 10th grade and he finished out at a rather robust 6'9".

Doctors and schools need to look at more than height/weight charts before jump to conclusions and failure to thrive is a lot more complicated that a small child. I do agree that children should not be taught that there's something wrong with their size.


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## Alice In TX/MO (May 10, 2002)

Read the ingredients on Ensure. Nasty stuff. Way high on soy, and that can cause female hormone issues. 

Ice cream would be better than Ensure. 

If her weight is normal for her height, there is likely not a problem. 

Did they test hormones?


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## Alice In TX/MO (May 10, 2002)

Ingredients


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## dsmythe (Apr 21, 2013)

The FIRST thing I would ask for would be a "Written Report" and a copy of any/all tests performed. I have had the school system nosing in our business too many times. We have been there and it has a huge sucking sound when they try to play GOD.
Our daughter had encephalitis and lived but had problems at school. They refused to put her in special classes. We asked for a meeting with the school board and brought an attorney with us. He was from Atlanta, We lived in Rome, GA. He asked for $1,000,000.00. I thought they were going to cry. A funny thing happened, all of a sudden our daughter was "welcomed" into the special ed classes where our Doctors had recommended her to be to start with. We did not carry through with the law suit which made the lawyer angry but got what we needed for our daughter. I think the school systems around us are Bullies!
I was "the biggest boy" in our class and all through school. I was called that and when I was younger it hurt, I grew out of it in later years. I does hurt when you are singled out for any reason and the other kids all know about it.
I am glad that she has a positive group behind her, she is going to need it if the school system doesn't back off. She is fortunate to have you in her Corner. Dsmythe


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## Bob M. (Nov 5, 2018)

That is just retarded....I was actually born under size, had to stay in the hospital for like 2 mos. after being born because of it...I'm 6-1" now and not a small boy. and honestly small woman are so cute, the guys will be fighting over her when she grows up. No reason to shame a child like that, for something she obviously has little or no control over.




haypoint said:


> Every woman that I have met that lived well into her 90s started out short.


I think every woman and guy you've met started out short.


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## haypoint (Oct 4, 2006)

Bob M. said:


> That is just retarded....I was actually born under size, had to stay in the hospital for like 2 mos. after being born because of it...I'm 6-1" now and not a small boy. and honestly small woman are so cute, the guys will be fighting over her when she grows up. No reason to shame a child like that, for something she obviously has little or no control over.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Oh, har har. Adults get shorter as they age, I was tying to be clear that this 92 year old 5 foot nothing woman was quite short as an adult.
I know all people started out stupid. I know a few that never outgrew that.


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## Bob M. (Nov 5, 2018)

oh wow...hope i didn't upset you.... joking like that and all..... Note, in case you have not already, I said what i said that you quoted about the original post...i THEN quoted you and said "I think every woman and guy you've met started out short.".



haypoint said:


> I know all people started out stupid. I know a few that never outgrew that.


non knowledgeable is not stupid, imo. it is simply not knowledgeable.knowledge can be gained...intelligence doesn't seem easily or even obtainable to as well as for the ignorant.


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## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

[email protected] said:


> My youngest daughter is a twin. her sister died at 2 days old. they both were just over 5 pounds at birth.
> my daughter was the shortest , petite , child in the whole school.. today she is 6 ft tall.. she was in jr high when she started to shoot up..
> forget about what the school is trying to do to your child. and who gives them the right to put your child on a special diet ??
> personally, I would home school her if this continued.


I'm sorry for your loss. Both of our daughters were premature, 4 lbs 15 oz (6 weeks early), and 4 lbs 3 oz (7 weeks early) respectively. They didn't weigh 10 lbs until they were 6 months old, and it took them until they were over 3 "catch up" with the peers, but they did.


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## D-BOONE (Feb 9, 2016)

I would tell them they better watch out Dynamite comes in small packages and packs a big wallop.


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## mreynolds (Jan 1, 2015)

One or two vocal teachers/admins/nurses (with tenure of course) can cause a ton of trouble. My step son was going through trouble at school and the teacher diagnosed him with ADHD. Just like that. My wife and I took him to a Therapist and he found out he was depressed. His father died when he was young and he never grieved. Top it off with his best friend moved away and it was a perfect storm. Even after the diagnosis from a PHD Therapist the teacher still insisted he was wrong and wanted him out of her class. The school wouldn't oblige but I did. I made them move his class. 

That teacher still doesn't like me to this day. My son has a normal healthy life and will be married later this year. Never had to be on meds either. 

CH, I understand how hard it is to bite your tongue but this will work itself out. She has a good family and will get through it fine.


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## georger (Sep 15, 2003)

Cornhusker said:


> My 7 year old granddaughter is a bright, happy, active, healthy, strong, intelligent, beautiful little girl.
> The school and the P.A. decided she's too small for her age, and she is in fact the smallest in her class, but not by much.
> The school made a big deal of it, and now she's embarrassed because she's small. (She's not outside normal range, just at the bottom of it.)
> According to one website I saw, the average weight for a 7 year old is 41-67 lbs and another says 48-50.5 lbs.
> ...


Get your family doctor and/or a lawyer involved. Who are these school people, they think they're doctors or something?


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## SLFarmMI (Feb 21, 2013)

georger said:


> Get your family doctor and/or a lawyer involved. Who are these school people, they think they're doctors or something?


I suspect we’re missing part of the story. Seems there is a family doctor involved since there is a P.A. which is not a staff member that I have ever heard of a school having.


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

Oregon1986 said:


> Lmao i'm staying away from you


And don't shake hands either.


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## IndyDave (Jul 17, 2017)

georger said:


> Get your family doctor and/or a lawyer involved. Who are these school people, they think they're doctors or something?


Once again, they have a stated goal to usurp the role of the parent. The official term is acting _en loco parentis-_-in place of the parent. My understanding is that the true goal leaves a partnership unequal in their favor as the minimum standard they wish to accept.


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## farmrbrown (Jun 25, 2012)

D-BOONE said:


> I would tell them they better watch out Dynamite comes in small packages and packs a big wallop.


Yep, lol.




dsmythe said:


> The FIRST thing I would ask for would be a "Written Report" and a copy of any/all tests performed.


Exactly, that's the 1st step.




Cornhusker said:


> I'm not entirely sure who tagged her with "failure to thrive", but I had it in my head it was the school. I could be wrong.



That goes with the 1st step above, find out who said it, where it came from and why.
That term 'failure to thrive' is an old one used by doctors to describe infants who died shortly after birth.
To use it on a healthy 7 year old is ridiculous.

Then the next step is gather documentation that proves otherwise, like report cards.
Are her grades good?
If so, then this supposed malnourishment should have showed up as poor grades, which would support this questionable medical diagnosis.
Are there reports from her P.E. teacher? I know that's been eliminated from a lot of schools now, but we always had some kind of physical recreation when I was a kid.........in the last century. 
She might not be the lead scorer in the sports activity, I doubt that's common for most 7 year old girls, but can she run and play with the other kids? (Ladies, please don't get offended by that remark, I'm just trying to help establish this girl is NOT feeble and about to die.)

If there is some obvious physical problem due to her alleged condition, then there should be some obvious record or note from a teacher in her file.

The P.A. would probably benefit from a visit from a concerned grandpa. Perhaps a 2nd opinion from an outside source after an exam of the little girl might tip the scales the other way (pun intended) and give the family some assurance in case they have to prove they ARE being responsible parents.


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## Bob M. (Nov 5, 2018)

One thing I learned adopting and then raising my nephew is always, even if they tell you, you cannot, record all meetings with teachers and school officials, and do not believe their BS, because they do a lot of it. In MI, there are special laws in place, not sure about wherever others are, that prevent schools from treating students unfairly, in fact they often have to go through special hoops if it is suspected a child is even special needs, and part of those hoops is testing to see if the child is. They do not like that evidently, and it puts many restrictions on them. Many times teachers and principles/etc. will outright lie to parents and attempt to maneuver them into submission outside these and other guidelines. A lot of them are left thinkers, whose mentality is ends justify the means...their ends and their means of course, and try to socially maneuver and connive to get whatever way they wish. For instance they told me I was not allowed to have a recorder in our meetings, because of discrepancies about things they had already said. I told them, I was, and it is ok if they didn't consent to it. (In Michigan it is legal to record conversations as long as one party that is part of the conversations is informed and knowledgeable about the recording.) They then said they would then not have a meeting...I said fine, I'll ask the board of education to explain their position as I recorded it, just fine. They then allowed me to record the meetings. It was amazing how different their positions were once they were being recorded...so polite and official....and things got done just fine.


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## SLFarmMI (Feb 21, 2013)

IndyDave said:


> Once again, they have a stated goal to usurp the role of the parent. The official term is acting _en loco parentis-_-in place of the parent. My understanding is that the true goal leaves a partnership unequal in their favor as the minimum standard they wish to accept.


Not trying to hijack the thread but you are incorrect on this issue.


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## IndyDave (Jul 17, 2017)

SLFarmMI said:


> Not trying to hijack the thread but you are incorrect on this issue.


If so, *I *am not wrong but rather at least two of my professors.


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## Alice In TX/MO (May 10, 2002)

I am a former teacher. 

A teacher, school counselor, school nurse, or administrator CANNOT make a medical diagnosis. 

A Physician’s Assistant must work under a doctor’s supervision. Ask for documentation. Expect them to falsify it. 

They cannot decide a course of action without third party testing on issues such as ADHD and a meeting with you present and in agreement. You should have to sign documents. 

Your darling daughter has been railroaded.


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## SLFarmMI (Feb 21, 2013)

Alice In TX/MO said:


> I am a former teacher.
> 
> A teacher, school counselor, school nurse, or administrator CANNOT make a medical diagnosis.
> 
> ...


This is why I suspect there is more to the story that perhaps the OP is not privy to.


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## haypoint (Oct 4, 2006)

Bob M. said:


> oh wow...hope i didn't upset you.... joking like that and all..... Note, in case you have not already, I said what i said that you quoted about the original post...i THEN quoted you and said "I think every woman and guy you've met started out short.".
> 
> 
> 
> non knowledgeable is not stupid, imo. it is simply not knowledgeable.knowledge can be gained...intelligence doesn't seem easily or even obtainable to as well as for the ignorant.


HT prohibits me from being more clear. I know the difference between ignorance and foolish. IMHO, you were needlessly nitpicking what was abundantly clear. Criticizing strangers, without the inflection of voice is somewhere between ill advised and ignorant. That's good advice.


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## haypoint (Oct 4, 2006)

I'd let this pass. They have done enough to say they tried, if there really was something gone wrong. I'm guessing just covering their rears.


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## Terri (May 10, 2002)

Cornhusker, I am the extremely small person who is from a family of 6 footers. What helped me was stories of my great-great Grandpa Billy, who was a cowboy and was a very colorful character and, at 5 feet nothing, he was 2 inches shorter than I am. 

It also occurs to me that "Failure to thrive" is a medical diagnosis. Does that mean that the school is practicing medicine without a license? What does her DOCTOR think? Because my cousin is 6'7" and some of my other relatives are about that tall, but, some of us do not have the genetics to grow that tall and so will ALWAYS be short and small boned


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## IndyDave (Jul 17, 2017)

Terri said:


> Cornhusker, I am the extremely small person who is from a family of 6 footers. What helped me was stories of my great-great Grandpa Billy, who was a cowboy and was a very colorful character and, at 5 feet nothing, he was 2 inches shorter than I am.
> 
> It also occurs to me that "Failure to thrive" is a medical diagnosis. Does that mean that the school is practicing medicine without a license? What does her DOCTOR think? Because my cousin is 6'7" and some of my other relatives are about that tall, but, some of us do not have the genetics to grow that tall and so will ALWAYS be short and small boned


Hmmm...

I have heard carpenters joking about needing a board stretcher. Maybe you needed someone to invent a girl stretcher so you could be tall like the rest of the family!


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## Terri (May 10, 2002)

IndyDave said:


> Hmmm...
> 
> I have heard carpenters joking about needing a board stretcher. Maybe you needed someone to invent a girl stretcher so you could be tall like the rest of the family!


Why bother? 

It was annoying when my "little" brother started patting me on the top of my head because he was taller than me, but it was also funny!


----------



## IndyDave (Jul 17, 2017)

Terri said:


> Why bother?
> 
> It was annoying when my "little" brother started patting me on the top of my head because he was taller than me, but it was also funny!


Just attempted humor!


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## Terri (May 10, 2002)

IndyDave said:


> Just attempted humor!


So was mine, of course! I am not at all sensitive at being vertically challenged!


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## IndyDave (Jul 17, 2017)

Terri said:


> So was mine, of course! I am not at all sensitive at being vertically challenged!


You do have an advantage here--I'll bet you don't often hit your head on low doorways!


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## thesedays (Feb 25, 2011)

Alice In TX/MO said:


> I am a former teacher.
> 
> A teacher, school counselor, school nurse, or administrator CANNOT make a medical diagnosis.
> 
> ...


And if you can prove it's been falsified, that PA-C will get their license yanked faster than you can turn around.


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## Terri (May 10, 2002)

IndyDave said:


> You do have an advantage here--I'll bet you don't often hit your head on low doorways!


Never.

And, when I am on an airplane I am small enough to sit in the airplane seat comfortably, which makes me wonder just how squished the average sized people are. For that matter I am one of the few people who can stand up straight BEFORE I step out into the aisle. 

When I was 18 I weighed 105: I am more solid now but still not very large. 

And


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## Terri (May 10, 2002)

thesedays said:


> And if you can prove it's been falsified, that PA-C will get their license yanked faster than you can turn around.


A PA ALWAYS works under a doctor. Everybody has a boss


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## Bob M. (Nov 5, 2018)

haypoint said:


> IMHO,


its odd...because whenever you say anything the least I get from it, is that it is your humble anything. but hey you're allowed your opinion. thanks for voicing it, your wisdom is often a guide in bias that really would be foolish to ignore.
I am glad you know the difference between ignorance and foolish. I am amused by you saying " you were needlessly nitpicking what was abundantly clear. "... when this all started with you saying "Every woman that I have met that lived well into her 90s started out short." which I quoted and then you taking offense or something at me saying (something abundantly clear on purpose, hence the humor of it.) "I think every woman and guy you've met started out short.".......absolutely amusing....please don't change...you are a wealth of humor to me, and surely many others.


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## geo in mi (Nov 14, 2008)

I'm not a doctor, nor a school administrator, but FWIW, here is the explanation of "failure to thrive":

https://www.hopkinsmedicine.org/healthlibrary/conditions/pediatrics/failure_to_thrive_90,P02297

In MY OWN opinion, regardless of what others may say, I would consider this as a preliminary diagnosis, and seek advice from a pediatric specialist. Whenever a "doctor" or anybody else tells me something, I usually jump on the internet to check out NIH or WEB, M.D., or Mayo Clinic, for more information regarding that condition the doc said. There's a virtual ton of information already out there to see, and you don't have to rely on anybody else's opinion. Just a little bit of checking on the term, "failure to thrive" tells me this can be a serious matter and shouldn't be ignored or passed off as a god complex or ignorance, or prejudice on the part of the doc or the school system. This symptom can lead to more serious underlying problems--and possibly cures--that I would want to check out for the love of my own family member. It, to me, should be considered as a starting place. I imagine this has a legal connotation, too--so the "system" has to be very careful in labeling it.

My own opinion,
Respectfully,

geo


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## Cornhusker (Mar 20, 2003)

farmrbrown said:


> Yep, lol.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Yup, she runs and plays and can run most of them into the ground.
She does very well in school, and when she was in first grade, she was reading so far ahead of the other kids in her class, they had her on a separate agenda. She was reading at a 4th grade level.
Like I aid, she's smart, healthy, strong, just a little small.


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## Cornhusker (Mar 20, 2003)

Alice In TX/MO said:


> Read the ingredients on Ensure. Nasty stuff. Way high on soy, and that can cause female hormone issues.
> 
> Ice cream would be better than Ensure.
> 
> ...


I don't think they tested anything, they just decided she wasn't fat enough.


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## Cornhusker (Mar 20, 2003)

SLFarmMI said:


> I suspect we’re missing part of the story. Seems there is a family doctor involved since there is a P.A. which is not a staff member that I have ever heard of a school having.


The P.A. isn't part of the school, she works for the Dr. office/Hospital.
I'm beginning to think the "failure to thrive" thing is a fancy way of saying she's small, and she's not that small, she just misses the acceptable range by a few pounds.
My beef with the whole thing is they are making her ashamed of herself, of her body.
At 7 years old, she shouldn't be worried about her appearance or what other people think.
As long as she's healthy, who cares if she's 4 pounds under "normal"?
The thing that makes me angry is the fact they make her feel bad about herself.


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## Cornhusker (Mar 20, 2003)

geo in mi said:


> I'm not a doctor, nor a school administrator, but FWIW, here is the explanation of "failure to thrive":
> 
> https://www.hopkinsmedicine.org/healthlibrary/conditions/pediatrics/failure_to_thrive_90,P02297
> 
> ...


I'm starting to think someone tagged her with "failure to thrive" without understanding what it really means.
From the link you posted.
I'm not sure 4 or 5 pounds is "significant", and I wouldn't say she's "dramatically" smaller or shorter.


> Children are diagnosed with failure to thrive when their weight or rate of weight gain is *significantly *below that of other children of similar age and sex. Infants or children that fail to thrive seem to be dramatically smaller or shorter than other children the same age. Teenagers may have short stature or appear to lack the usual changes that occur at puberty. *However, there is a wide variation in what is considered normal growth and development.*


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## SLFarmMI (Feb 21, 2013)

Cornhusker said:


> The P.A. isn't part of the school, she works for the Dr. office/Hospital.
> I'm beginning to think the "failure to thrive" thing is a fancy way of saying she's small, and she's not that small, she just misses the acceptable range by a few pounds.
> My beef with the whole thing is they are making her ashamed of herself, of her body.
> At 7 years old, she shouldn't be worried about her appearance or what other people think.
> ...


You are 100% correct. It should make you angry. No child should be ashamed of his or her body. Even if she did have failure to thrive, at 7 years old, she shouldn’t even know about it. You are doing the best thing for her by telling her and showing her that she is perfect just the way she is.


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## Terri (May 10, 2002)

SLFarmMI said:


> You are 100% correct. It should make you angry. No child should be ashamed of his or her body. Even if she did have failure to thrive, at 7 years old, she shouldn’t even know about it. You are doing the best thing for her by telling her and showing her that she is perfect just the way she is.


There is that.

I adopted a baby with many health problems, and he was underweight and flirting with the "failure to thrive" thing when he was 5. So I packed a small ensure shake in his lunch which he very much enjoyed. I did NOT discuss his weight with him, though the doc and I discussed it in front of him. We did not try to hide it from him either.

When he was older he got a scoop of ice cream a day until he no longer needed it to keep his weight up. He liked that, too. It was no big thing, the doc simply said that he would like to see DS gain a little weight and suggested the ensure that had milk as its first ingredient and so I packed it into his lunch. End of problem. No big discussion and no body shaming: just "drink your shake every day, please".


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## farmrbrown (Jun 25, 2012)

Cornhusker said:


> Yup, she runs and plays and can run most of them into the ground.
> She does very well in school, and when she was in first grade, she was reading so far ahead of the other kids in her class, they had her on a separate agenda. She was reading at a 4th grade level.
> Like I aid, she's smart, healthy, strong, just a little small.


That's what I thought.
She's all the proof you need.
Failure to thrive.............yeah. 
And I'm a Jamaican jet pilot, lol.


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## no really (Aug 7, 2013)

Cornhusker said:


> I'm starting to think someone tagged her with "failure to thrive" without understanding what it really means.
> From the link you posted.
> I'm not sure 4 or 5 pounds is "significant", and I wouldn't say she's "dramatically" smaller or shorter.


How did the school obtain this information? If it was without parental permission there could be some HIPPA violations.


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## Nimrod (Jun 8, 2010)

_And I'm a Jamaican jet pilot, lol.
_
I don't know why you think this is weird? Now a Jamaican bobsledder would be weird. Oh, wait a minute, there actually are Jamaican bobsledders.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jamaica_national_bobsleigh_team


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## Alice In TX/MO (May 10, 2002)

Nimrod, you beat me to it.


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## AmericanStand (Jul 29, 2014)

IndyDave said:


> Hmmm...
> 
> I have heard carpenters joking about needing a board stretcher. Maybe you needed someone to invent a girl stretcher so you could be tall like the rest of the family!


I believe that was invented hundreds of years ago , it’s called “ the Rack”. 
I don’t believe it was very popular with patients.


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## IndyDave (Jul 17, 2017)

AmericanStand said:


> I believe that was invented hundreds of years ago , it’s called “ the Rack”.
> I don’t believe it was very popular with patients.


Ok, I wasn't thinking torture.


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## Alice In TX/MO (May 10, 2002)

A board stretcher is a mythical tool. You send the rookie on a building job to the lumber yard to ask for one. 

It’s like sending your teenage daughter into the car parts store for blinker fluid.


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## mnn2501 (Apr 2, 2008)

Terri said:


> When I was 18 I weighed 105: I am more solid now but still not very large.


When I was around 10 I weighed 105


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## IndyDave (Jul 17, 2017)

Alice In TX/MO said:


> A board stretcher is a mythical tool. You send the rookie on a building job to the lumber yard to ask for one.
> 
> It’s like sending your teenage daughter into the car parts store for blinker fluid.


Several years back, I had some fun with the now retired receptionist at Wood Mizer asking if she had any good specials on board stretchers when I called.

I also had an experience on a construction site when a pipe fitter sent me to get a jar of level bubbles. I couldn't scrounge an empty jar, but the tool guy had an empty small clear plastic bag which I labeled "level bubbles", the returned and said,"You idiot! Level bubbles don't come in a jar, they come in a bag!"


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## Nimrod (Jun 8, 2010)

How about a metric, left handed, universal, open end wrench?


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## IndyDave (Jul 17, 2017)

I got a chuckle out of a guy who had been in the navy sending the new guy to go to the boiler room to get a bucket of steam


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## oneraddad (Jul 20, 2010)

Relative bearing grease


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## nehimama (Jun 18, 2005)

I was a newly-minted surgical technician, working with my docs on a hernia repair, when one of the docs asked me for a Henway clamp. I madly searched all over my back table for a Henway. I just knew it was something I'd skipped over in tech school, and that I'd recognize the unfamilar clamp when I finally saw it. Finally, giving up, I asked the doc, "What's a Henway?" He winked at me and replied, "Oh, about 5 or 6 pounds."


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## hardrock (Jun 8, 2010)

Cornhusker said:


> I don't think they tested anything, they just decided she wasn't fat enough.


Hope things work out for the best for your GD and all who love her. 
I showed this thread to my wife, I knew she was a little kid. She said that when she enrolled in 1st
grade, she was 30" tall and weighed 28#. She said she knows all the short jokes.
She has enjoyed good health all her life.


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## nehimama (Jun 18, 2005)

Sometimes those heartless clowns would send a newbie to Central Supply to get an Otis Elevator. Funny thing is, they usually _rode_ the Otis Elevator down to the first floor where CS was located.


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## Bob M. (Nov 5, 2018)

It's like the conversation we were having about MSG and other things, sending someone into a pharmacy to ask if they need a prescription for dihydrogen monoxide, or can it be bought over the counter. Whats even funnier is asking a sales person at a grocery store and them telling you they don't think they sell that, or asking if it's used in baking.


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## haypoint (Oct 4, 2006)

Cornhusker said:


> Like I aid, she's smart, healthy, strong, just a little small.


So was Ruth Bater Ginsburg and she's on the Supreme Court. I just watched the movie of her life. Being short never held her back.


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## haypoint (Oct 4, 2006)

Thank goodness for a few "failure to thrive", otherwise the high school wrestling team wouldn't have anyone for those lighter classes. 103, 112, 119, 125 pound weight classes for high school boys is pretty light.


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## mreynolds (Jan 1, 2015)

Alice In TX/MO said:


> A board stretcher is a mythical tool. You send the rookie on a building job to the lumber yard to ask for one.
> 
> It’s like sending your teenage daughter into the car parts store for blinker fluid.


In the information age you have to get more technical. Now you ask for a left handed lathe stretcher.

For those that are particularly book smart you ask for a metric cresent wrench. It's fun and they think you are up with the times with the metric system.


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## farmrbrown (Jun 25, 2012)

Nimrod said:


> _And I'm a Jamaican jet pilot, lol.
> _
> I don't know why you think this is weird? Now a Jamaican bobsledder would be weird. Oh, wait a minute, there actually are Jamaican bobsledders.
> 
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jamaica_national_bobsleigh_team


Not weird, different meaning.

IOW, how high would you have to be to believe that crock?

Answer: Higher than a Jamaican jet pilot.


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## fireweed farm (Dec 31, 2010)

Sorry didn't read all 5 pages so perhaps missed the rest of the story.
But I'm sensing the 'diagnosis' was actually what happens when you mix telephone tag/heresy from an emotional parent. I'm betting nobody in the school system ever said the words failure to thrive here. And certainly didn't write it down.


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## Cornhusker (Mar 20, 2003)

fireweed farm said:


> Sorry didn't read all 5 pages so perhaps missed the rest of the story.
> But I'm sensing the 'diagnosis' was actually what happens when you mix telephone tag/heresy from an emotional parent. I'm betting nobody in the school system ever said the words failure to thrive here. And certainly didn't write it down.


I'll try to find out who tagged her with that, but that's not my point.
My point is someone is shaming her about her size, and if I had to bet on it, my money is on the superintendent.


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## 1948CaseVAI (May 12, 2014)

The Paw said:


> I used to work in child welfare many years ago, and have never heard the term "failure to thrive" used to talk about a child other than an infant (less than 3 years old). That seems like a red flag to me, as does the fact that she seems close to average weight from what you say.
> 
> I would be getting the family pediatrician to weigh in, and if I didn't like their answer, I might ask for a specialist. It is possible an over-enthusiastic school nurse isn't staying in her lane....
> 
> Good luck.


Over the two decades that I was a Lt. on a medium-sized (500 officer) police department I filed paperwork to take custody of a number of children when the medical diagnosis was "failure to thrive." We nearly always kept the child in state custody until a competent court heard the case. However, like the poster I quoted above, those were always infants or children under three years old. Failure to thrive is not only a medical disgnosis it can be the basis for a criminal charge and I would be very concerned about being charged or having my child taken away from me. A lawyer is called for in this case!!!


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## Druidess (May 22, 2018)

Cornhusker said:


> My 7 year old granddaughter is a bright, happy, active, healthy, strong, intelligent, beautiful little girl.
> The school and the P.A. decided she's too small for her age, and she is in fact the smallest in her class, but not by much.
> The school made a big deal of it, and now she's embarrassed because she's small. (She's not outside normal range, just at the bottom of it.)
> According to one website I saw, the average weight for a 7 year old is 41-67 lbs and another says 48-50.5 lbs.
> ...


And this prime example of what is wrong with our modern medical practice is how young girls end up as women with weight issues and dis-eases like bulimia. 

When my first son was an infant my in-laws wanted me to stop breastfeeding him because he had breastmilk jaundice and was long and skinny, and to them he looked gaunt. I had to get a note from the pediatrician saying that he was perfectly healthy and appropriately grown. Today they would probably call him a "failure to thrive" baby. He's 25, stands 6'2" and is skinny but solidly muscular for his height because he has his father's build despite eating like a horse (his father still has a 29" waist at 50 years old). He's strong as an ox, has those skinny ropey muscles that run in his family. Sounds like your granddaughter has that same build, I'm sure she'll be fine. Sounds like she was fine until this stupid meddling, and I hope she listens to you.


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## GrannyCarol (Mar 23, 2005)

I gotta say, I'd take exception to pushing her family to give her Ensure. It's nothing but a milk based sugary drink with fake vitamins in it. Chemical soup with tons of sugars, not the least bit healthy for her! A growing child needs plenty of real food - meat, vegetables, etc. The least amount of processed food possible is the healthiest diet for any of us!

As far as small... my Mother In Law is turning 94 next week. She is tiny, always has been and outlived all of her family and friends. Small size is nothing to worry about, as long as the person is otherwise healthy and being fed good wholesome food!


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## Michael W. Smith (Jun 2, 2002)

Sorry to hear that your Granddaughter now feels there is something "wrong" with her.

I'd be making some calls to the school to find out who started all of this, and then I'd have a meeting with the Principal and try to get the Superintendent involved. Start the meeting with saying that you know the school is a "bully free zone" - at least that's what the principals and superintendent always say - and then bring up that your Granddaughter has now been bullied by the school since she feels picked on, singled out, and now things something is wrong with her.

They do the same exact thing when during health class or gym class, they bring out the scale and have the students weigh each other. The students who are overweight are then singled out that they need to eat healthier, get more exercise, etc. I understand they are trying to instill good health and wise eating habits (that perhaps the kid doesn't get at home), but all of this usually just makes the student feel bad about themselves which can create eating disorders so they can be "normal".

There should be an apology coming from somebody and if it's brought up again, the school district will be involved in litigation.

If the principal or Superintendent doesn't want to have a meeting, get in touch with a school board member - one who thinks on their own - and doesn't believe everything the Superintendent tells them and inform them of what has happened.

Shame on them!!


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## mnn2501 (Apr 2, 2008)

My wifes grandmother was 4'10" tall and never weighed 100 lbs in her life - she lived to be 105.

On a side note I have the runt of the litter cat that is 18 now, outlived all her much larger (adopted) brothers and sister. She's still going strong, and still very tiny.


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## jerry arnold (Dec 1, 2018)

Cornhusker said:


> My 7 year old granddaughter is a bright, happy, active, healthy, strong, intelligent, beautiful little girl.
> The school and the P.A. decided she's too small for her age, and she is in fact the smallest in her class, but not by much.
> The school made a big deal of it, and now she's embarrassed because she's small. (She's not outside normal range, just at the bottom of it.)
> According to one website I saw, the average weight for a 7 year old is 41-67 lbs and another says 48-50.5 lbs.
> ...


i'm with you 100%!!! the public school system has failed...used to be a good thing but now all kids must be "quiet little zombies"...and never no losers or winners...sad...this little girl is just fine...hell, according to the BMI i'm grossly obese because i'm 5'8" and weigh in around 200#...it's probably the damn BMI in this case too; maybe she's a bit taller or shorter...whatever, give her lots of hugs and such...momma's right; play along...


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## DogGoneIt (Jan 24, 2019)

Since you say you're just venting, your feelings and concerns are all valid. Pushing the issue, talking about it, force feeding(in effect), etc will probably harm her. There is nothing wrong with being small in weight and our obese society has forgotten what appropriate size even is. However it doesn't hurt to double check health (by getting a 2nd opinion from a doctor and requesting a blood panel) and it's just being on the safe side to check(and will serve as evidence of medical care should CPS get involved). It doesn't mean there is anything wrong with being small, we all grow at different rates, and these people just care about her health and isn't it nice that people care about her, but people don't always show they care in the nicest ways. 
.
I had a small premie born friend in grade school, grew up just fine to a normal height, always stayed thin, and was eventually diagnosed as having a thyroid issue and is on meds.


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## cjennmom (Sep 4, 2010)

Now that has me mad as Hades. I had the opposite 'problem', I was about the biggest in my class (grade) until I hit 4th-5th grade. The problem wasn't the adults in my case, it was the kids. They always teased me about being big as a whale and I ended up with a weight problem because of it. And when I say I was among the biggest, I mean I was the tallest and had maybe 10 lbs. puppy fat like so many other kids that age. I hit 5' by the time I was 10. If they all hadn't been such little d*cks about it I bet my puppy fat would have disappeared in the 13-15 yo. range like with everyone else but when you're told so often that you're a fat, ugly pig for years at a time, it does damage. My kids were also among the biggest in their class, and while my eldest took until he was 11 to make 5' he made up for it big time - he literally grew 4" per year starting at his 11th birthday and so was 6' when he entered 8th grade at 14, and was 6'2" at 8th grade graduation (age 15). My 2nd, now 17 yo., was also large but a little slower in growth like his father's side but is now 6'3" like my 18 yo.

Someone needs to tell the school in no uncertain tones that failure to thrive is all about being sickly, not petite. Furthermore, you should hire a lawyer to quote the facts and figures given by her pediatrician and threaten a lawsuit if they don't stop harassing her or you. If you don't, you may well find CPS on your doorstep one day soon.



Cornhusker said:


> My 7 year old granddaughter is a bright, happy, active, healthy, strong, intelligent, beautiful little girl. The school and the P.A. decided she's too small for her age, and she is in fact the smallest in her class, but not by much. The school made a big deal of it, and now she's embarrassed because she's small. (She's not outside normal range, just at the bottom of it.) According to one website I saw, the average weight for a 7 year old is 41-67 lbs and another says 48-50.5 lbs. She weighs 46#. They have her on Ensure, and have set a goal of 50 pounds, and the whole thing has me kinda worked up. I talked to her Friday and told her there's nothing wrong with her, and there's nothing wrong with the size she is. I told her in every group there's someone who is the biggest and someone who is the smallest, and there's nothing wrong with it. The school has her listed as "Failure to thrive" which is crap, because she is obviously thriving. They have her mother afraid to even say anything in the little girl's defense, that "failure to thrive" thing sounds ominous and she's afraid of what the school might try to do if they don't go along. It's like they want everyone the same, everyone must be an androgynous, fat little clone of everybody else. All I know is that it breaks my heart to see my little girl crying because she's too small, and a system that makes a little girl ashamed of her body and her size is a bad system. Obviously, I don't have any say in it or I'd be at that school ripping someone a new one. Thanks for letting me vent.


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## [email protected] (Sep 16, 2009)

have her tested ? hire a lawyer ? 
no better way to downplay this problem and not subjecting the little girl to more strife ? ya think ?
innocent until proven guilty.. does that apply here ?
If they (parents) decide to squabble about this, It should be in private without involving the girl.
the less she is stressed the better, and to hell with all the adults involved..


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## CIW (Oct 2, 2007)

Has there been an IEP assessment done? Sometimes a preassessment will done with some pretty extreme results in order to get to the IEP stage.
Around here IEP's are conducted by district psychologists. They can consist of physical and emotional health, as well as test for any learning deficiencies that may be there. If there isn't any, they will find that also.
My daughter was found to have dyslexia in second grade. But she was off the charts when testing was given orally. Her comprehension was that of most adults. She needed to know how to interpret the way the information was coming in. She actually reads books upside down.
She graduated high school, in a tie for 5th, 6th, and 7th with 2 other kids, out of 4700 students in the district. She has been on the dean's list each year throughout college and will graduate this spring with a master's in animal science from Utah State University. By the way she stands 4' 10" tall and will out work most men 14" taller than her.
I hate to play football with her. She is so fast.
Don't be afraid of the assessment just make sure that it is followed up by a psychologist.
The best way through this situation is to only deal in facts not hearsay.


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## [email protected] (Sep 16, 2009)

again I say, if it ain't broke, don't attempt to fix it...


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## Danaus29 (Sep 12, 2005)

With all the questions about the possible effects artificial sweeteners have on growing children I would never trust anyone who pushed giving them in large amounts to small children. It has negative comments on webMD and their site says "consult your physician or pharmacist" under side effects.

A whole fruit smoothie, milk shake, or custard would be a much better option if you want to add calories. Even peanut butter and jelly sandwiches would be more healthy than an ensure drink.


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## SLFarmMI (Feb 21, 2013)

CIW said:


> Has there been an IEP assessment done? Sometimes a preassessment will done with some pretty extreme results in order to get to the IEP stage.
> Around here IEP's are conducted by district psychologists. They can consist of physical and emotional health, as well as test for any learning deficiencies that may be there. If there isn't any, they will find that also.
> My daughter was found to have dyslexia in second grade. But she was off the charts when testing was given orally. Her comprehension was that of most adults. She needed to know how to interpret the way the information was coming in. She actually reads books upside down.
> She graduated high school, in a tie for 5th, 6th, and 7th with 2 other kids, out of 4700 students in the district. She has been on the dean's list each year throughout college and will graduate this spring with a master's in animal science from Utah State University. By the way she stands 4' 10" tall and will out work most men 14" taller than her.
> ...


There is absolutely no reason, given the info the OP has provided, to call for a special education assessment. Being slightly small is not indicative of any physical, emotional, cognitive or learning impairment. 

BTW, the OP has stated he is unsure who mentioned “failure to thrive” initially. Being that it is not an educational term, it is highly unlikely that it originated with the school. Most likely it originated with her doctor and the information was released to the school.


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## coolrunnin (Aug 28, 2010)

Irish Pixie said:


> You're correct. Only a Registered Nurse can assess and diagnosis. Both are overseen by a MD or DO.


I hope nurses arent allowed to assess and diagnose.
That's a bit above their paygrade


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## wr (Aug 10, 2003)

First cleanup.


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## Alice In TX/MO (May 10, 2002)

Just close it.


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## wr (Aug 10, 2003)

Alice In TX/MO said:


> Just close it.


I thought about it but I really hate closing threads when a member is looking for advice or suggestions.


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

wr said:


> First cleanup.


There seems to be a pattern.


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## Cornhusker (Mar 20, 2003)

wr said:


> I thought about it but I really hate closing threads when a member is looking for advice or suggestions.


Thanks, but if the thread is going south, I am good with closing it.
Thanks for the advice and insight everybody, I really appreciate being able to talk about this.


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## Elffriend (Mar 2, 2003)

farmrbrown said:


> The P.A. would probably benefit from a visit from a concerned grandpa. Perhaps a 2nd opinion from an outside source after an exam of the little girl might tip the scales the other way (pun intended) and give the family some assurance in case they have to prove they ARE being responsible parents.


That's what I was going to suggest. I don't think the P.A. would or should talk to Grandpa because that could be seen as a HIPPA violation. I think his daughter should take his granddaughter to a pediatrician, even if that means going to another town or nearby city. Not a General Practitioner/Family Doctor, but a Pediatrician who sees no one but children. Have a copy of her medical records sent to the pediatrician after an appointment is made. All kids medical files should contain a growth chart. Our pediatrician told us that so long as kids maintained a steady rate on their own chart, where they fell on the chart didn't really matter. We had one kid that was always over 95% for height and weight and one kid that was always somewhere between 5 and 10% for both. Same family, same parents, just different kids at opposite ends of the spectrum and there was nothing wrong with either of them.


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## farmrbrown (Jun 25, 2012)

Elffriend said:


> That's what I was going to suggest. I don't think the P.A. would or should talk to Grandpa because that could be seen as a HIPPA violation. I think his daughter should take his granddaughter to a pediatrician, even if that means going to another town or nearby city. Not a General Practitioner/Family Doctor, but a Pediatrician who sees no one but children. Have a copy of her medical records sent to the pediatrician after an appointment is made. All kids medical files should contain a growth chart. Our pediatrician told us that so long as kids maintained a steady rate on their own chart, where they fell on the chart didn't really matter. We had one kid that was always over 95% for height and weight and one kid that was always somewhere between 5 and 10% for both. Same family, same parents, just different kids at opposite ends of the spectrum and there was nothing wrong with either of them.


Yeah my wife is under HIPPA laws too and has to know all the regulations.
There's one thing that trumps all the other cards...........the patient's permission.
Grandpa can walk in and get them to tell him anything and everything if he knows what to say and who to bring with him.
You just have to remind people who is the boss.


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

> farmrbrown said: ↑
> The P.A. would probably benefit from a visit from a concerned grandpa.


"Grandpa" has no rights in this scenario unless the parents have signed consent forms.



farmrbrown said:


> You just have to remind people who is the boss.


You can't intimidate people to get your way.
You're not "the boss".
It's called "harassment" and "bullying".


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## farmrbrown (Jun 25, 2012)

Bearfootfarm said:


> "Grandpa" has no rights in this scenario unless the parents have signed consent forms.
> 
> 
> You can't intimidate people to get your way.
> ...


LOL.
I love it when people tell me "I can't" do something I've already done.
That's one of the perks about being the Big Dog. (I'm a grandpa too)
Apparently from your first sentence, you failed to comprehend that's what I was talking about..........



farmrbrown said:


> There's one thing that trumps all the other cards...........the patient's permission.
> Grandpa can walk in and get them to tell him anything and everything if he knows what to say and who to bring with him.


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## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

farmrbrown said:


> Yeah my wife is under HIPPA laws too and has to know all the regulations.
> There's one thing that trumps all the other cards...........the patient's permission.
> Grandpa can walk in and get them to tell him anything and everything if he knows what to say and who to bring with him.
> You just have to remind people who is the boss.


The patient is 7 and can't consent to anything, her mother as her guardian, can give permission for a medical provider to discuss with another person tho.


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## Alice In TX/MO (May 10, 2002)

Having been the grandmother in two healthcare situations with grandchildren, I can attest to the fact that you have no rights unless the parents sign forms to give you said rights.


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

farmrbrown said:


> LOL.
> I love it when people tell me "I can't" do something *I've already done*.


I have no doubt you've done it. (Or at least claim you have)
That doesn't mean you should have and it doesn't make it the right thing to do.



> There's one thing that trumps all the other cards...........the patient's permission.


The "patient" in this scenario is a minor who can't give permission.
You just like playing "macho man".


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## farmrbrown (Jun 25, 2012)

Irish Pixie said:


> The patient is 7 and can't consent to anything, her mother as her guardian, can give permission for a medical provider to discuss with another person tho.


Thanks.
As I said previously, I'm very familiar with HIPPA laws.
A few months ago, I "bullied and intimidated" (to use BFF's terms) the local PD into returning my wife's phone that had been confiscated while in her granddaughter's possession.
It took about an hour to do what the arresting officer claimed would take 6 months if ever.
The intimidation game he tried to run on my wife, didn't work with the Big Dog.


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## farmrbrown (Jun 25, 2012)

Hey, here's something for the people on here that think I'm a moron.
I'll spell it out.
Cornhusker gets the parent's to sign a release for the info and Grandpa can get everybody to talk. I'm pretty sure I already knew a 2nd grader was a minor.
Did y'all think I was really that stupid?

This business of "I can't do this or you can't do that" is for the weak minded.
Sorry, I don't roll that way.


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

farmrbrown said:


> The intimidation game he tried to run on my wife, didn't work with *the Big Dog.*


So you say.



farmrbrown said:


> Did y'all think I was really that *stupid*?


That's your word.
We can only go by the things you say.
They show you like to use intimidation and lies to get your way.
Whether or not that is "stupid" is subjective.


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## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

farmrbrown said:


> Thanks.
> As I said previously, I'm very familiar with HIPPA laws.
> A few months ago, I "bullied and intimidated" (to use BFF's terms) the local PD into returning my wife's phone that had been confiscated while in her granddaughter's possession.
> It took about an hour to do what the arresting officer claimed would take 6 months if ever.
> The intimidation game he tried to run on my wife, didn't work with the Big Dog.


I certainly don't think you're a moron, but your post was a bit confusing. It sounded like you were going to try to bluff and fuss your way through what would be a HIPAA violation. It wouldn't happen.


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## farmrbrown (Jun 25, 2012)

Irish Pixie said:


> I certainly don't think you're a moron, but your post was a bit confusing. It sounded like you were going to try to bluff and fuss your way through what would be a HIPAA violation. It wouldn't happen.


No it wouldn't.
I know how to do a lot of things, but I only explain them if I have to.


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## whiterock (Mar 26, 2003)

I'm on the paperwork, and I'm usually the one that takes the grands to doc and dentist anyway. Works better that way, I'm retired and the parents have trouble getting away from work.


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## mml373 (May 2, 2017)

Cornhusker said:


> My 7 year old granddaughter is a bright, happy, active, healthy, strong, intelligent, beautiful little girl.
> The school and the P.A. decided she's too small for her age, and she is in fact the smallest in her class, but not by much.
> The school made a big deal of it, and now she's embarrassed because she's small. (She's not outside normal range, just at the bottom of it.)
> According to one website I saw, the average weight for a 7 year old is 41-67 lbs and another says 48-50.5 lbs.
> ...


My vote: this is none of the school's business.

Signed,

Someone who was two months early, always underweight, but somehow managed to become a great runner who can out-ruck his entire (bigger and more experienced) squadron full of active duty military guys with 40 pounds on our backs.

They should leave you all alone. Sorry you're having to deal with this.


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## Miss Kay (Mar 31, 2012)

There was a little girl on TV this morning that had a heart transplant. Her mother is the one that found the condition by insisting they continue to look into what was wrong with her daughter. Just to make sure, I'd have her tested for some rare conditions that may be lurking. If that comes back that she is fine, I'd have the doctor write them a letter that she is fine and then I'd tell them to back off. Who knows what size she will be when she grows up.


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## Alice In TX/MO (May 10, 2002)

Also saw a recent article about a lady who had bilateral hip replacements. The type of hip joints they used are deteriorating. The doctors didn’t listen.

https://www.kvue.com/mobile/article...r-it/269-c41ad14d-031f-4166-a18b-4361e8e22cfd


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## Dutchie (Mar 14, 2003)

Cornhusker said:


> My 7 year old granddaughter is a bright, happy, active, healthy, strong, intelligent, beautiful little girl.
> The school and the P.A. decided she's too small for her age, and she is in fact the smallest in her class, but not by much.
> The school made a big deal of it, and now she's embarrassed because she's small. (She's not outside normal range, just at the bottom of it.)
> According to one website I saw, the average weight for a 7 year old is 41-67 lbs and another says 48-50.5 lbs.
> ...


Go rip someone at the school anyway. That is horrible.


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## Dutchie (Mar 14, 2003)

Cornhusker said:


> I was very skinny when I was a kid, and nobody can call me small anymore.


Ain't that the truth!


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## whiterock (Mar 26, 2003)

My momma thought I was gonna starve to death, kept takin me to docs and pumping vitamins and such into me. Finally a doc told her when I got hungry I would eat. About 4 years after that, I got hungry! Dad said the grocery bill dropped by more than half when I left for college.


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## no really (Aug 7, 2013)

Alice In TX/MO said:


> Also saw a recent article about a lady who had bilateral hip replacements. The type of hip joints they used are deteriorating. The doctors didn’t listen.
> 
> https://www.kvue.com/mobile/article...r-it/269-c41ad14d-031f-4166-a18b-4361e8e22cfd


OMG!!! That is frightening and infuriating. Think of all the implants for various things are out there.


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## TheMartianChick (May 26, 2009)

I didn't have time to read all of the posts but I recalled hearing about schools using their resources to identify children with health problems. I have heard of the schools that send letters home if a child's weight is deemed to be above average. I decided to look up the term "failure to thrive" to learn how the medical community defines it. I found this:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3198227/

I know of a family who gets hassled by one of the local school districts for something similar. The parents are both about 5 feet tall and fairly petite. Their 4 children (including a set of twins) have all been required to have more frequent medical checkups. I am in their house on a regular basis and can attest that they are well-fed. The medical visits have not turned up any adverse health conditions. They are just petite people. It seems to only be an issue while in elementary school.


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## SLFarmMI (Feb 21, 2013)

TheMartianChick said:


> I didn't have time to read all of the posts but I recalled hearing about schools using their resources to identify children with health problems. I have heard of the schools that send letters home if a child's weight is deemed to be above average. I decided to look up the term "failure to thrive" to learn how the medical community defines it. I found this:
> 
> https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3198227/
> 
> I know of a family who gets hassled by one of the local school districts for something similar. The parents are both about 5 feet tall and fairly petite. Their 4 children (including a set of twins) have all been required to have more frequent medical checkups. I am in their house on a regular basis and can attest that they are well-fed. The medical visits have not turned up any adverse health conditions. They are just petite people. It seems to only be an issue while in elementary school.


I have never heard of anything like that being generated from the schools. Schools do not have the resources to identify health problems. Never, in my entire career, in any school I have ever worked in, has the school ever sent letters out about a child’s weight.

Are you sure the issues your friends are experiencing are coming from the schools and not from an outside agency like CPS? No school I have ever worked in has the authority to mandate medical exams.


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## TraderBob (Oct 21, 2010)

Homeschool.


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## Oxankle (Jun 20, 2003)

Small town, everybody knows everybody; daddy is a waste of oxygen; the P. A. is supervised by the Dr. They are playing it safe, making sure the kid is getting what she needs. I'd not make a fuss over it, just tell the kid that they want to be sure she is getting enough food and that she is not ill.


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## TheMartianChick (May 26, 2009)

SLFarmMI said:


> I have never heard of anything like that being generated from the schools. Schools do not have the resources to identify health problems. Never, in my entire career, in any school I have ever worked in, has the school ever sent letters out about a child’s weight.
> 
> Are you sure the issues your friends are experiencing are coming from the schools and not from an outside agency like CPS? No school I have ever worked in has the authority to mandate medical exams.


It is definitely coming from the school district. Something similar has happened in Massachusetts and ( if I recall correctly), the Obamas received such a letter about their youngest daughter.

http://archive.boston.com/lifestyle...n/2013/08/letter_from_the_school_nurse_y.html


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## Alice In TX/MO (May 10, 2002)

Schools in Texas do some health checks and notify parents. Eyesight. Hearing.

Maybe it is dependent on the district.


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## SLFarmMI (Feb 21, 2013)

Alice In TX/MO said:


> Schools in Texas do some health checks and notify parents. Eyesight. Hearing.
> 
> Maybe it is dependent on the district.


County Health Department does it here. Schools provide the space.


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