# Twenty year old kid.



## muleskinner2 (Oct 7, 2007)

I hired a twenty year old kid yesterday. I needed someone to help me build a house. Sometimes you just need someone to hold the end of a board.

He told me he was a High School graduate, but he can't read or sign his name. He doesn't have a drivers license, and he had to call his mother to get his social security number. His mother told me that the teachers at school had said he had a disability and couldn't comprehend letters or numbers.

My first thought was, this just can't be true. Why would they graduate him if he couldn't read. After talking to him for a while, I asked him if he would like to try to learn to sign his name. At first he was hesitant, but then agreed to try.

It took and hour and a half. He still can't read, but he can print and sign his name in cursive. Is this normal? Do they really graduate kids who can't read or sign their name?


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

You need to find a new 20 YO 

20 YO is not a kid

He is a dysfunctional man


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## nchobbyfarm (Apr 10, 2011)

muleskinner2 said:


> I hired a twenty year old kid yesterday. I needed someone to help me build a house. Sometimes you just need someone to hold the end of a board.
> 
> He told me he was a High School graduate, but he can't read or sign his name. He doesn't have a drivers license, and he had to call his mother to get his social security number. His mother told me that the teachers at school had said he had a disability and couldn't comprehend letters or numbers.
> 
> ...


Yes


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## muleskinner2 (Oct 7, 2007)

HDRider said:


> You need to find a new 20 YO
> 
> 20 YO is not a kid
> 
> He is a dysfunctional man


I am going to keep him on as a helper. By the time we are finished with the house, he will be able to read and do simple math. I am not a father or a teacher, but I can read and do simple math. I wouldn't be worth very much if I couldn't teach a kid to read. And at my age a 20 YO is still a kid.


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## Danaus29 (Sep 12, 2005)

muleskinner2 said:


> I hired a twenty year old kid yesterday. I needed someone to help me build a house. Sometimes you just need someone to hold the end of a board.
> 
> He told me he was a High School graduate, but he can't read or sign his name. He doesn't have a drivers license, and he had to call his mother to get his social security number. His mother told me that the teachers at school had said he had a disability and couldn't comprehend letters or numbers.
> 
> ...


I congratulate you on at least trying to help this young man. You might be the first person to actually work with him.

And yes, they do graduate children who can't read or write. A lot of it is politics, the more disabilities you serve the more money you get. And some is simple inability to learn how to teach children who don't thrive and learn in the system but are still capable of learning.

Back when I was in school, students who didn't function well in traditional settings were assigned a level of disability and allowed to take enough Home Ec or easy classes to earn the credits to graduate.

When my children were in school, students that couldn't keep up were passed over then held back the next year. No extra help, no tutoring sessions, no extra time for tough assignments, no notes sent home to parents notifying them of the problems.

Cursive is no longer taught or if it is taught, the skill is not maintained.


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## ET1 SS (Oct 22, 2005)

Our youngest son has a learning disability. He homeschooled him as best as we could but he hit a wall with the ninth grade curriculum. So we sent him to public school to see what they would do. They gave him school work, and he would fail it. So the next assignment was a bit easier. With each new assignment they made it easier and easier until they finally found a level that matched his ability. Then they graded his school work based on that ability. The stuff he could do was ninth grade level, but he got good grades doing it. So they gave him all 'A's.

He graduated highschool on the honor roll, because he had all 'A's. But he never could do the tenth grade stuff.


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## Wolf mom (Mar 8, 2005)

So sad. No longer educating - just a babysitting mill.


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## nchobbyfarm (Apr 10, 2011)

muleskinner2 said:


> I am going to keep him on as a helper. By the time we are finished with the house, he will be able to read and do simple math. I am not a father or a teacher, but I can read and do simple math. I wouldn't be worth very much if I couldn't teach a kid to read. And at my age a 20 YO is still a kid.


Please be careful. I congratulate you on your willingness to try to help. Some, certainly not all, but some of the kids passed through have serious anger issues that stay well hidden the majority of the time. But look out when they surface. Good luck. I hope you can make a difference for this young man!


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## muleskinner2 (Oct 7, 2007)

The more I think about it the madder I get. I am actually embarrassed that a twenty year old American, can't read and sign their name.


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## GTX63 (Dec 13, 2016)

His mother owes it to every other kid in that district to take her son with her to the next school board meeting, stand up and ask them to explain just how exactly was he allowed to pass thru the system.


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

GTX63 said:


> His mother owes it to every other kid in that district to take her son with her to the next school board meeting, stand up and ask them to explain just how exactly was he allowed to pass thru the system.


Maybe @muleskinner2 can go too


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## HermitJohn (May 10, 2002)

Look its always been a variation on same theme. Just as in past eras, where they just told those that dont fit in, to stay home. Public schools are designed for the majority in the middle of the bell curve. They dont do well with those at either end of bell curve. They just either talk over the head or dumb down materials for those at the bottom. They truly get frustrated when those at top that are more knowledgeable than the teacher, so they too are just given busy work and ignored. Teachers dont like to be asked inconvenient questions they cant answer and consider it disruptive and not of interest to those in middle.


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## muleskinner2 (Oct 7, 2007)

HDRider said:


> Maybe @muleskinner2 can go too


No thanks, I would probably end up in jail. I have a few anger issues of my own.


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## muleskinner2 (Oct 7, 2007)

nchobbyfarm said:


> Please be careful. I congratulate you on your willingness to try to help. Some, certainly not all, but some of the kids passed through have serious anger issues that stay well hidden the majority of the time. But look out when they surface. Good luck. I hope you can make a difference for this young man!


Careful!!! I was careful once, till I found out it didn't pay very much.


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## mzgarden (Mar 16, 2012)

Glad you hired this young man. Glad he was up front about his inability to write his name and that he can't read. Can't imagine how much better he feels that you took the time with him and he can now both sign and write his name. Hope you are able to work with him to make even more of a difference.


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## Alice In TX/MO (May 10, 2002)

Teachers aren’t fairy godmothers, and they are trapped by the demands of the same system that sent this fellow out into the world. 

You cannot Imagine how many teacher hours were spent working with him. The system failed them both. 

Please go to your local school in the fall and volunteer to be an aide in the special education classrooms.


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)




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## AmericanStand (Jul 29, 2014)

HDRider said:


> You need to find a new 20 YO
> 
> 20 YO is not a kid
> 
> He is a dysfunctional man


Wait a second there cowboy.
Arnt you the guy that thinks everyone should pull themselves up by their bootstraps ?
Arnt you the guy that thinks minimum wage is just a starter wage and that people should work their way up ?
Here is a guy willing to try and a guy willing to work with him and you want to throw him a anchor not a life jacket.
This also explains why minimum wage needs to be a living wage.
Cause people like you Don’t want those at minimum wage to advance and still want to pay sub living wages.
Heck you don’t want this American to make any wage.
Bet you would be the first to complain if he was on welfare.


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## nehimama (Jun 18, 2005)

I commend you for your compassion and your willingness to help this young man. So many others have just given up on him.


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

AmericanStand said:


> Wait a second there cowboy.
> Arnt you the guy that thinks everyone should pull themselves up by their bootstraps ?
> Arnt you the guy that thinks minimum wage is just a starter wage and that people should work their way up ?
> Here is a guy willing to try and a guy willing to work with him and you want to throw him a anchor not a life jacket.
> ...


I would have to view it an investment in a person if that person is complexly unable to perform the task for which he is hired.

If I expected some level of basic skills and those are lacking, it is pure charity to hire that person if the only thing he can do is hold the other end of the board.

@muleskinner2 is being very generous, and charitable. Not every employer would be. Maybe this is what launches the young man.


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## Alice In TX/MO (May 10, 2002)

The teachers were told to pass him through. I can guarantee you that.


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

Alice In TX/MO said:


> The teachers were told to pass him through. I can guarantee you that.


And they passed the problem on to the next stage of his life.


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## GTX63 (Dec 13, 2016)

For a kid to not be able to sign or read his own name, and yet walk across a stage and receive a diploma?
Then a total stranger in just a short time enables this young man to do what no one was willing or able to teach him in 12 grades?
There is no need to blame an entire system; in his case the blame lies as the feet of his particular instructors, the principals and the administrators.
My wife has volunteered and she has seen the day to day workings of the classrooms.
If that is the best he could get for his parent's tax money, he would have been no less served home schooled.

But, mom and dad? Hey! 
Where ya been when this kid couldn't get the right cereal box for you out of the cabinet?


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## AmericanStand (Jul 29, 2014)

HDRider said:


> I would have to view it an investment in a person if that person is complexly unable to perform the task for which he is hired.
> 
> If I expected some level of basic skills and those are lacking, it is pure charity to hire that person if the only thing he can do is hold the other end of the board.
> 
> @muleskinner2 is being very generous, and charitable. Not every employer would be. Maybe this is what launches the young man.


 I think you are waffling. 
And you keep denying your own advice. The op was quite clear that this man was hired to hold the end of a board. He seems to be fully meeting his employers employment expectations.


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

AmericanStand said:


> I think you are waffling.
> And you keep denying your own advice. The op was quite clear that this man was hired to hold the end of a board. He seems to be fully meeting his employers employment expectations.


I did not see a lot of satisfaction from @muleskinner2 in his new employee


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## Alice In TX/MO (May 10, 2002)

HDRider said:


> And they passed the problem on to the next stage of his life.


The school system did. The teachers did not. They did "as they were TOLD."

I fought back at the dumbed down system. We were TOLD not to post a grade lower than a 50 in our gradebooks because it was "too hard" for a student to bring that grade up to passing. I fought HARD. I refused. Did it do me any good? Nope. Did it do the students any good? Nope.

Save your outrage for the public school system that is no longer allowed to find the proper niche for students who weren't blessed by The Great Spirit with enough brain power to read, write, and do arithmetic. Those students are MAINSTREAMED instead of helped and taught productive life skills.

I predict that the OP will find great joy in helping that young man prosper. Why? Because I've BEEN THERE, DONE THAT. 

I hired a handful of seniors who where taking garbage classes (multiple PE and AG classes) and sitting on their rears after lunch to remodel a house. The principal cleared it. I had a retired Navy Command Master Chief to work with them till I got home after school. Some of them didn't know the difference between a slot screw driver and a Phillips. ONLY ONE parent ever showed up to see what their sons were doing. It was an INCREDIBLY rewarding experience for all of us. 

You want to blame someone? Blame the school district, the state education agencies, and the PARENTS who aren't making sure their own children are learning.


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## Redlands Okie (Nov 28, 2017)

The school system has some issues without a doubt. But being able to print your name ? Add and subtract up to 10. Whatever the standard might be. 

It seems the parents did a whole lot of nothing also. Alice in Texas has a very good point.


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## wdcutrsdaughter (Dec 9, 2012)

Thankful for people like the OP and Alice in Texas.


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

AmericanStand said:


> This also explains why minimum wage needs to be a living wage.


This really has nothing to do with minimum wage jobs.
If he can learn a skill he will be worth the extra money.

If he can't then no one else should be forced to pay his way.


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## HermitJohn (May 10, 2002)

Bearfootfarm said:


> This really has nothing to do with minimum wage jobs.
> If he can learn a skill he will be worth the extra money.
> 
> If he can't then no one else should be forced to pay his way.


Yep, just chain him out to a tree until he expires. No food, no water, cause the people with 10 mansions and more money than many countries decide he isnt worth the space. 

Seriously if you cant find a use for citizens that arent bloody Einsteins to earn an honorable living, then you shouldnt be running a country. Actually Einstein himself wasnt particularly valued, didnt do well in school, etc.... He didnt fit the mold that those who designed the school systems wanted. They wanted obedient factory workers and good little consumers. 

You can scream education all you want, but face facts some just arent designed for the kind of society YOU think we should have.


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## HermitJohn (May 10, 2002)

Redlands Okie said:


> The school system has some issues without a doubt. But being able to print your name ? Add and subtract up to 10. Whatever the standard might be.
> 
> It seems the parents did a whole lot of nothing also. Alice in Texas has a very good point.


so you are basing this on the assumption that the parents could read and write???


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## HermitJohn (May 10, 2002)

AmericanStand said:


> I think you are waffling.
> And you keep denying your own advice. The op was quite clear that this man was hired to hold the end of a board. He seems to be fully meeting his employers employment expectations.


Just getting somebody to show up is hurdle number one. Especially for low paying or part time jobs. Why struggle when the pay isnt enough to allow you to buy a minimalist existence in that community? Beyond that, holding a board doesnt require you read or write. It requires you can follow direction and have hands or some other appendage that can grasp a board. No doubt a trained monkey could do this if you could keep their attention long enough.


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## MichaelZ (May 21, 2013)

It could be that the young man is borderline on IQ (70). Not low enough to be institutionalized but too low to function in many jobs. It is a fact that exactly half of the population are below average IQ. The OP is to be commended for working with this young man!


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## SLFarmMI (Feb 21, 2013)

muleskinner2 said:


> I hired a twenty year old kid yesterday. I needed someone to help me build a house. Sometimes you just need someone to hold the end of a board.
> 
> He told me he was a High School graduate, but he can't read or sign his name. He doesn't have a drivers license, and he had to call his mother to get his social security number. His mother told me that the teachers at school had said he had a disability and couldn't comprehend letters or numbers.
> 
> ...


First of all, you should be commended for giving the kid a shot. Many people hear the word “disability” and think that equals stupid. It doesn’t.

Second, I feel that I should caution you that just because he could write his name at the end of your session with you it doesn’t mean that he will be able to do so the next day. That’s the nature of the beast with learning disabilities. The kids have it one day and by the next, it’s like they’ve never seen it before.

Third, don’t assume that, just because he can’t read, that the school failed him. There are students, due to the nature and severity of their learning disability, who never will learn to read. No matter what techniques, strategies or materials you use, it just doesn’t click. These students are rare (I’ve had one in over 20 years of teaching) but they do exist. You have to use other things than the written word to help them acquire information.


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## SLFarmMI (Feb 21, 2013)

MichaelZ said:


> It could be that the young man is borderline on IQ (70). Not low enough to be institutionalized but too low to function in many jobs. It is a fact that exactly half of the population are below average IQ. The OP is to be commended for working with this young man!
> 
> View attachment 78230


Um, no, it is not a fact that half the population is below average IQ. Average IQ is a range (85-115), not an absolute value (100).


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## Alice In TX/MO (May 10, 2002)

It depends on your definition.


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## blanket (May 28, 2013)

Is he a good worker? I would take a chance to teach him real world skills. And minimum wage being a living wage is BS. Pay is what the worth of the job is and working the window at a fast food place is not worth $15 an hour.


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## AmericanStand (Jul 29, 2014)

blanket said:


> Pay is what the worth of the job is and working the window at a fast food place is not worth $15 an hour.


 Why isn’t it worth $15 ?

I can only think of two reason that could be. 
1 because we don’t require it to be.
Or 
Because we let so many immigrants into the country that it runs the value of labor below it.


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

HermitJohn said:


> Yep, just chain him out to a tree until he expires. No food, no water, cause the people with 10 mansions and more money than many countries decide he isnt worth the space.


Save the hysterics and melodrama and stick to reality.



HermitJohn said:


> Seriously if you cant find a use for citizens that arent bloody Einsteins to earn an honorable living, then you shouldnt be running a country.


He can learn ways to earn an "honorable living".
It just won't be by doing a minimum wage job.
The jobs pay what the labor is worth.


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## AmericanStand (Jul 29, 2014)

What jobs would those be for a man that can’t read or write ?


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

AmericanStand said:


> Why isn’t it worth $15 ?


Remarks like that are why I never take the things you say seriously.


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

AmericanStand said:


> What jobs would those be for a man that can’t read or write ?


He could be a truck driver.


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## AmericanStand (Jul 29, 2014)

Afraid not he isn’t qualified


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## muleskinner2 (Oct 7, 2007)

This kid is no dummy. He grew up on a remote ranch, he can build fence, rope and doctor cattle in the pasture. He can drive a water truck, irrigate crops, weld, and a dozen other things. And by the end of the summer he will be able to read. IQ scores and grades don't mean much to me. I graduated High School with a D-, and three months later passed the highest aptitude test the US Army had.

This morning he showed up and had my horses, mules, and goats fed before I finished my coffee. Around here they would say that he is, "making a hand".


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## [email protected] (Sep 16, 2009)

one of the best finish carpenters I ever met could not read a ruler.. 
that did not render him as being stupid..
I hired a slow book learner . he turned out to be one of my most willing workers. would attempt to do anything I asked of him. and accomplished most of the tasks.
if your young man learns one thing per day, by the end of the week he will know 7 things. by the end of a month it will be 30 things. etc etc
If he shows up for work every day, he is already ahead of some of the readers and thinkers I had hired.
I had a dollar per hour bonus for anybody who showed up for 40 hour week. NEVER had to pay it..


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## blanket (May 28, 2013)

AmericanStand said:


> Why isn’t it worth $15 ?
> 
> I can only think of two reason that could be.
> 1 because we don’t require it to be.
> ...


 what is the value added to the product? Means an average of 5 minutes to take an order and deliver to the window involves a person taking your order =time divided by time, 4 people working on your order divided by time, 2 people to get your drink divided by time, one person to figure out why your order is wrong divided by time, an owner trying to be profitable and so on for a 5 dollar order? A minum


muleskinner2 said:


> This kid is no dummy. He grew up on a remote ranch, he can build fence, rope and doctor cattle in the pasture. He can drive a water truck, irrigate crops, weld, and a dozen other things. And by the end of the summer he will be able to read. IQ scores and grades don't mean much to me. I graduated High School with a D-, and three months later passed the highest aptitude test the US Army had.
> 
> This morning he showed up and had my horses, mules, and goats fed before I finished my coffee. Around here they would say that he is, "making a hand".


I would hire him and pay him good, dumbazz people that think that everyone with a heartbeat is worth a minimum wage is part of the problem. It is all about how you work


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## blanket (May 28, 2013)

AmericanStand said:


> Afraid not he isn’t qualified





muleskinner2 said:


> This kid is no dummy. He grew up on a remote ranch, he can build fence, rope and doctor cattle in the pasture. He can drive a water truck, irrigate crops, weld, and a dozen other things. And by the end of the summer he will be able to read. IQ scores and grades don't mean much to me. I graduated High School with a D-, and three months later passed the highest aptitude test the US Army had.
> 
> This morning he showed up and had my horses, mules, and goats fed before I finished my coffee. Around here they would say that he is, "making a hand".


yep hire em that is where I am


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## [email protected] (Sep 16, 2009)

anybody is worth $8.oo/hour just for showing up for work. then what they do is worth more..


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## blanket (May 28, 2013)

yep and fire them if not, but not a living wage which is about 15 an hour


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## Evons hubby (Oct 3, 2005)

HDRider said:


> You need to find a new 20 YO
> 
> 20 YO is not a kid
> 
> He is a dysfunctional man


You mean do what the school system did?


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## Terri (May 10, 2002)

Muleskinner, there are CEO's of major businesses who can barely read or write: google dyslexia.

The teachers teach the kids as much as they can learn, but some kids cannot learn some things.

My brother has several books on kindle, as he is a born storyteller, but he has dyslexia and so he *NEEDS* his spell check, and then he gets somebody to proof read it as the difference between "there" and "their" will not show up on spell check. He is great with a computer, but he has trouble with the difference between "pot" and "top", as they tend to look the same to him.

He has always has a job and he can read and write, but his then his dyslexia is not as bad as some


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## 101pigs (Sep 18, 2018)

muleskinner2 said:


> I hired a twenty year old kid yesterday. I needed someone to help me build a house. Sometimes you just need someone to hold the end of a board.
> 
> He told me he was a High School graduate, but he can't read or sign his name. He doesn't have a drivers license, and he had to call his mother to get his social security number. His mother told me that the teachers at school had said he had a disability and couldn't comprehend letters or numbers.
> 
> ...


Had a Bother that never got pass the 8th grade. He stayed on the farm and raised cattle. He did learn to write his name and do enough math to know the price of cattle he would ship each year. He got married at age 30 and moved to the big city. He did go to work at a printing company running printing machines. After 15 years there the boss came to him and asked him to be foreman in the printing department. My brother said you know i can't read or write. The owner of the company said you have worked here 15 years and not missed one day of work in 15 years. I will gave you a secretary to do any writing and reading for you. He worked there as boss over the print shop till he retired at age 65. My brother was not dumb just could not read. He retired to his farm raised cattle until he passed away at age 80. He wanted to be a farmer all his life however the lady he married liked the city. His last few years on the farm was a very happy time for him. His wife stayed in the city till she retired. He would visit her once a month and she would come to the farm and visit him for a few days each month.

One other note his wife had a college degree and worked at the same printing company for 30 years. He was her boss in the printing department.


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## AmericanStand (Jul 29, 2014)

I have to admit I can’t spell.
It used to drive my teachers nuts that I would spell the same word 3 different ways in the same paragraph.
They would ask me about each in turn wanting to know if it looked right. 
Of course each of them did but for some reason since they knew the right way to spell it they thought I should too. 
They often accused me of trying to aggravate them but honestly any word remotely close to right looks right to me.


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## farmgal (Nov 12, 2005)

Sounds like the parents didn't pick up the slack. So many lazy parents these days.


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## tiffanysgallery (Jan 17, 2015)

It's great you're giving him a job. Likewise pay into social security so he has something later in his life. Also, encourage him to see a doctor. Hint, a doc could get the ball rolling on a diagnosis and possibly treatment. Finally, it could be he's lacking positive recognition at home and doesn't want to apply himself in certain areas.


muleskinner2 said:


> This kid is no dummy.


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## tiffanysgallery (Jan 17, 2015)

muleskinner2 said:


> He told me he was a High School graduate, but he can't read or sign his name. He doesn't have a drivers license, and he had to call his mother to get his social security number. His mother told me that the teachers at school had said he had a disability and couldn't comprehend letters or numbers.


Just an idea... It sounds like, based on the information in your paragraph, he may have a treatable vision problem. There are eye problems that mimic Dyslexia. So I wouldn't rule out a 'functional reading test'. For example, he could have a 'lateral/directional problem', which would affect his ability to recognize letters and numbers properly. An eye exam could prove beneficial in his case, it wouldn't hurt anyway.


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## HermitJohn (May 10, 2002)

farmgal said:


> Sounds like the parents didn't pick up the slack. So many lazy parents these days.


You are assuming his parents can read and write????


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## Redlands Okie (Nov 28, 2017)

Parents do not have to be able to read or write to be sure their children can. They could be blind...... Their job (and one would hope their desire) as a parent is to make sure the child has the time and motivation to go to school to learn. To make sure the school does its job. To talk to enough people to find a solution to the problem.


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## brosil (Dec 15, 2003)

Teach him to read phonetically. Dollars to doughnuts, he was taught in a See And Say school.


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

Alice In TX/MO said:


> The school system did. The teachers did not. They did "as they were TOLD."
> 
> I fought back at the dumbed down system. We were TOLD not to post a grade lower than a 50 in our gradebooks because it was "too hard" for a student to bring that grade up to passing. I fought HARD. I refused. Did it do me any good? Nope. Did it do the students any good? Nope.
> 
> ...


Alice I do NOT blame the teachers. I know where the fault lies.


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## farmrbrown (Jun 25, 2012)

muleskinner2 said:


> I hired a twenty year old kid yesterday. I needed someone to help me build a house. Sometimes you just need someone to hold the end of a board.
> 
> He told me he was a High School graduate, but he can't read or sign his name. He doesn't have a drivers license, and he had to call his mother to get his social security number. His mother told me that the teachers at school had said he had a disability and couldn't comprehend letters or numbers.
> 
> ...


Man, I wish I could tell you this was the only one that ever happened, but I'd be lying.
I'm still looking for a kid to train and come help me.......for 2 years now.



Here's some irony.
You've talked about what you've done in life, if I can put it simply - train mules.
And you did in an hour and a half what they couldn't do in 12 years.

It would appear that either you are the best there is in the world, or they are the worst.


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

farmrbrown said:


> Man, I wish I could tell you this was the only one that ever happened, but I'd be lying.
> I'm still looking for a kid to train and come help me.......for 2 years now.
> 
> 
> ...


You make a good point. 

We need to get these kids out of the hands of the government ran public school system, and match them up with some mule skinners.


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## happy hermits (Jan 2, 2018)

Wow he is lucky to have found you. I find the whole situation sad and frustrating. Our school systems suck and are getting worse not better. I have a nine year grandson in elementary school it is just a night mare.


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## Oregon1986 (Apr 25, 2017)

Sadly yes they do


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## hiddensprings (Aug 6, 2009)

Sad but very true, we have students are pushed through our educational system that haven't learned the basics. The teachers and administrators simply don't want to deal with them. My cousin is a history teacher at an alternative high school. He had a student that didn't do the work. He failed, however, my cousin was being strong-armed to pass the kid because the principle and staff didn't want him at the school for another year. My cousin called to ask how he should handle it. He felt that if he failed the kid, he would loose his job. I told him find another job and stand your ground.


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## CKelly78z (Jul 16, 2017)

I commend you for stepping up, and trying to help this kid. Obviously the system, and his parents have failed to provide a learning curriculum for this child, and he has slipped through the needed funding cracks of the school district he attended.

If you are successful in your endeavor, he may become the most loyal, hard working member of your crew out of gratitude for finally paying attention to him. Good on you !


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

Yvonne's hubby said:


> You mean do what the school system did?


So we should expect muleskinner, and other employers to mask the failing of our government public schools? Just let the schools slide. Pass the buck.


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

It would be one thing if this was an isolated case. It is not. Our public school system is in a failed state.

I think they just need more money. Don't you?


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## muleskinner2 (Oct 7, 2007)

farmrbrown said:


> Man, I wish I could tell you this was the only one that ever happened, but I'd be lying.
> I'm still looking for a kid to train and come help me.......for 2 years now.
> 
> 
> ...


Yes, I can train mules. Not that training mules is very hard, as they are smarter than most people.


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

muleskinner2 said:


> Yes, I can train mules. Not that training mules is very hard, as they are smarter than most people.


I thought it was a metaphor.

Did you expect to kick a such hornets nest with your little man child story?


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## frogmammy (Dec 8, 2004)

Maybe muleskinner just talks right.

I noticed in college, and while teaching after, that some people just explain things better TO *YOU*, than others can explain things. On whatever level, their explanation and your understanding "connects". A teacher can be the BEST in the world, but if you aren't "connecting" with them, you aren't learning what they want you to. No reflection on that teacher, either, as probably at least 95% of the ones the teacher teaches DO understand and connect with what they're saying.

Mon


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## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

It is a good thing you are doing Muleskinner. You might just end up with a jewel of an employee who will be loyal and productive because you took the time to train him.


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## whiterock (Mar 26, 2003)

I went in a store some years back. Woman was home schooling her son and he was having trouble connecting compound sentences. She asked me to help as she was at the end of her rope. I told him the first clause was a truck, the second was a trailer, the conjunction was the tongue of the trailer and the punctuation mark was the trailer pin. He understood perfectly and had no trouble from then on.
I dealt with many students that got passed on. I didn't like it then and don't now. One reason a principal gave me was she didn't want a 16 year old 7th grader around 13 year old 7th grade girls.


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## muleskinner2 (Oct 7, 2007)

HDRider said:


> I thought it was a metaphor.
> 
> Did you expect to kick a such hornets nest with your little man child story?


You are way over my head, as I don't have any idea what you are talking about.


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## Alice In TX/MO (May 10, 2002)

I discovered that many of my high school English students didn’t know to make pictures in their heads as they read.


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

Alice In TX/MO said:


> I discovered that many of my high school English students didn’t know to make pictures in their heads as they read.


The pictures I had in my head never helped me in school, they did help pass the day though.


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## AmericanStand (Jul 29, 2014)

whiterock said:


> I dealt with many students that got passed on. I didn't like it then and don't now. One reason a principal gave me was she didn't want a 16 year old 7th grader around 13 year old 7th grade girls.


 Lol that would seem more even than the current system.


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## farmrbrown (Jun 25, 2012)

muleskinner2 said:


> Yes, I can train mules. Not that training mules is very hard, as they are smarter than most people.





HDRider said:


> I thought it was a metaphor.
> 
> Did you expect to kick a such hornets nest with your little man child story?



Yep, I was actually paying him a sincere compliment, and although I have no experience with mules I would believe that on average they are smarter than most people nowadays.

I mean, 12 years of school and the kid can't write his name. An hour and a half with a mule trainer and mission accomplished.
What the........?


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## Wolf mom (Mar 8, 2005)

HDRider said:


> So we should expect muleskinner, and other employers to mask the failing of our government public schools? Just let the schools slide. Pass the buck.


We do every time we accept this as the status quo.
We do every time we admit a student to a junior college, then put him in remedial classes.
We do every time we hire someone that can't read or write. (that doesn't have some sort of disability)


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## farmrbrown (Jun 25, 2012)

I probably shouldn't have said it the way I did....."You must be the best in the world" (training mules) - unless of course if your mules have also learned to write their own names.
In that case you can claim the world's best title, hands (or hooves) down!



It does make ya wonder what this kid missed out of, due to the lack of some good guidance and attentive teaching.
I hope you continue to make a positive difference in this young man's life.


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## MO_cows (Aug 14, 2010)

GTX63 said:


> His mother owes it to every other kid in that district to take her son with her to the next school board meeting, stand up and ask them to explain just how exactly was he allowed to pass thru the system.


I wouldn't shame my kid to make a point. Mom should have figured something out long before he was graduated.


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## Redlands Okie (Nov 28, 2017)

Way past the point over worrying about a little bit of shame. School board, administrators, teachers, and even the parents need to handle some shame on the issue. When your getting a pay check regardless of the product being sent out the door there is a problem. I agree that it should be handled as delicate as possible in regards to the student. However, the student is going to have a LOT more shame issues, finical issues, etc as life goes on over the subject. Get a handle on it sooner, not later.


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## nchobbyfarm (Apr 10, 2011)

Money.

That is the root of the problem with schools. The Feds have made school districts dependent on the federal funds to balance their budgets. They cannot hold back, expel, suspend, discipline kids to often or to severely, or otherwise run their on schools for fear of losing the fed funds they are dependent upon. 

If you don't believe me, get involved in the process of your local school budget and find out how the feds use the money to control schools to stop the discrimination or school to prison pipeline.


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## Alice In TX/MO (May 10, 2002)

Absolutely true. Bodies in seats mean federal dollars. 

I was asked to allow a young man back into my classroom after he and another student fought. The student in question broke a mug on my desk to use the remaining handle with sharp shard edges as a weapon. 

I said, “No.”

The superintendent put pressure on me to change my mind. I had to quote the statute that gave me the authority to say no. 

Money.


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## [email protected] (Sep 16, 2009)

as I am reading I see loads of assumptions. 
bad parents, bad teachers, bad school boards .
I think it was mentioned many of the things this man can do. he just doesn't read or write.
I see a lot of spelling mistakes in a lot of the responses.
and misuse of words .. how do you come to the conclusion that you are better than this man ?
and don't came back with the "how I spell makes no difference". excuse.


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## Alice In TX/MO (May 10, 2002)

Perfection is a myth. You didn’t punctuate correctly. 

Let it go. We are all expressing our opinions, based on our experiences.


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## SLFarmMI (Feb 21, 2013)

[email protected] said:


> as I am reading I see loads of assumptions.
> bad parents, bad teachers, bad school boards .
> I think it was mentioned many of the things this man can do. he just doesn't read or write.
> I see a lot of spelling mistakes in a lot of the responses.
> ...


You’re correct, there are many assumptions going on in this thread. The OP says very clearly that the young man in question has a disability, per his mother’s report, and yet, the reason he can not read, in their opinions, is due to poor schools, poor teachers and poor parents. 

I wonder how many people who are opining about this young man’s reading issues have actually taught a student with a disability to read. I’d bet probably just Alice in TX and me.


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## dsmythe (Apr 21, 2013)

If a man can train mules, build a house, and do everything else needed to maintain his property plus has traveled a lot over the world he probably has a "Few" stories to tell as well( Second Hand Lion comes to my mind). This young Man is blessed by GOD to have been selected by MuleSkinner to help him! I actually envy him! I had one man, my boss, and 2 teachers who spent extra time with me to help me learn! They are Still my Heros. God bless you MuleSkinner!


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## kalmara (Aug 21, 2011)

SLFarmMI said:


> You’re correct, there are many assumptions going on in this thread. The OP says very clearly that the young man in question has a disability, per his mother’s report, and yet, the reason he can not read, in their opinions, is due to poor schools, poor teachers and poor parents.
> 
> I wonder how many people who are opining about this young man’s reading issues have actually taught a student with a disability to read. I’d bet probably just Alice in TX and me.


I was a remedial teacher (a few years ago now  ) for youngsters under 10yrs old, on a one to one basis. All kids learn in different ways. I found that finding books that were of interest to them & had pictures would help a lot to get them interested enough to at least try to read. 

These kids often had problems at home which didn't help in many cases. Usually they would present with a very negative attitude, but within a few weeks were reading, their writing and spelling improved, along with the "attitude". For some the saving grace was an eye and/or hearing test that revealed a problem that was easily fixed.

When teachers have 30 kids in a classroom, it's easy for some to fall through the cracks.


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## AmericanStand (Jul 29, 2014)

[email protected] said:


> as I am reading I see loads of assumptions.
> bad parents, bad teachers, bad school boards .
> I think it was mentioned many of the things this man can do. he just doesn't read or write.
> I see a lot of spelling mistakes in a lot of the responses.
> ...


 Lol where did you get elected English czar ?
All of English is arbitrary constructs. 
You make your rules I will make mine. 
In English you see sometimes the Apple falls back up to the tree.


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## AmericanStand (Jul 29, 2014)

SLFarmMI said:


> You’re correct, there are many assumptions going on in this thread. The OP says very clearly that the young man in question has a disability, per his mother’s report, and yet, the reason he can not read, in their opinions, is due to poor schools, poor teachers and poor parents.
> 
> I wonder how many people who are opining about this young man’s reading issues have actually taught a student with a disability to read. I’d bet probably just Alice in TX and me.


i think that arrogance that we are the only ones that can teach breeds a lot of the dislike for teachers. 
Dislike might not be the right word . It’s disbelief,anger at being insulted, and a lot of other things rolled into one.


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## AmericanStand (Jul 29, 2014)

kalmara said:


> When teachers have 30 kids in a classroom, it's easy for some to fall through the cracks.


 Why ?
It was my forth grade teacher with over 40 kids in her classroom that discovered I could read.


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## TripleD (Feb 12, 2011)

My hats off to Muleskinner for his choice. After watching 3 nephews work on fencing yesterday '' they only made it 4 hours''. I'm just wondering if he wants to do a trade ? 3 for 1....


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## SLFarmMI (Feb 21, 2013)

AmericanStand said:


> i think that arrogance that we are the only ones that can teach breeds a lot of the dislike for teachers.
> Dislike might not be the right word . It’s disbelief,anger at being insulted, and a lot of other things rolled into one.


It’s the assumption from the non-teachers here that, because the young man can’t read, he must have had lousy teachers that ticked me off. Did you miss the bit from the OP that the young man’s mother said he had a disability and couldn’t comprehend letters and numbers?

Teaching a student with those types of disabilities (specifically dyslexia, dysgraphia and dyscalculia) is a whole different animal.


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

farmrbrown said:


> I mean, 12 years of school and the kid can't write his name. An hour and a half with a mule trainer and mission accomplished.
> What the........?


Or maybe he just *lied* when he *said* he couldn't.
Some are just compulsive liars.


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## Alice In TX/MO (May 10, 2002)

Yeah. Let’s be negative. Sigh.


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## AmericanStand (Jul 29, 2014)

SLFarmMI said:


> It’s the assumption from the non-teachers here that, because the young man can’t read, he must have had lousy teachers that ticked me off. Did you miss the bit from the OP that the young man’s mother said he had a disability and couldn’t comprehend letters and numbers?
> 
> Teaching a student with those types of disabilities (specifically dyslexia, dysgraphia and dyscalculia) is a whole different animal.


I don’t get your point?
Are you trying to say that all we can expect from 12 years with the professionals are results that are not as good as a mule trainer with a couple of hours to spare?


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## AmericanStand (Jul 29, 2014)

Bearfootfarm said:


> Or maybe he just *lied* when he *said* he couldn't.
> Some are just compulsive liars.


Is this your sneaky way of calling mule skinner a liar? Do you think that mule skinner can’t tell the truth when presented to him by both the young man and his mother?
Personally I believe that everyone in this thread has been honest. 
Except for your insinuations .


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

AmericanStand said:


> Is this your sneaky way of calling mule skinner a liar?


I'm sorry you don't understand what I said.
It was really quite clear to most people.


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## muleskinner2 (Oct 7, 2007)

dsmythe said:


> If a man can train mules, build a house, and do everything else needed to maintain his property plus has traveled a lot over the world he probably has a "Few" stories to tell as well( Second Hand Lion comes to my mind). This young Man is blessed by GOD to have been selected by MuleSkinner to help him! I actually envy him! I had one man, my boss, and 2 teachers who spent extra time with me to help me learn! They are Still my Heros. God bless you MuleSkinner!


I thought I only had a few stories, till my wife told me that I had too many. And I haven't even told her the really good ones.


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## muleskinner2 (Oct 7, 2007)

TripleD said:


> My hats off to Muleskinner for his choice. After watching 3 nephews work on fencing yesterday '' they only made it 4 hours''. I'm just wondering if he wants to do a trade ? 3 for 1....


Sorry, no trade. The only reason I might let him go, is if I can't keep up with him. I have to tell him to stop and take a brake, because I need to rest not him.


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## SLFarmMI (Feb 21, 2013)

AmericanStand said:


> I don’t get your point?
> Are you trying to say that all we can expect from 12 years with the professionals are results that are not as good as a mule trainer with a couple of hours to spare?


You obviously don’t get the point. 

1. If the young man truly has a disability, his being able to write his name after an intensive hour long session means nothing. Ask him again in a week or a month and see what you find. 

2. Teaching someone to write his or her name is a far cry from teaching him or her to decode and comprehend text. 

3. There are many reasons why someone may not be able to read. Perhaps people should stop assuming that it is due to poor teachers, parents and schools.


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## AmericanStand (Jul 29, 2014)

Yep I didn’t get the point that’s why I asked


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## Alice In TX/MO (May 10, 2002)

I wish y'all would stop being snarky. My tolerance is fading.


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## Miss Kay (Mar 31, 2012)

I am so glad this young man found you MuleSkinner. My guess is your years of working with training horses/mules has prepared you for this task. My husband has a gift for working with animals and his techniques would work great with people with disabilities too. He is consistent, patient, simple commands, never move to the next lesson until the first is well learned, he gives lots of praise and very little negative reprimands (although sometimes they need it) and he cares. Animals and people both know when they have a leader that has their best interest at heart. They truly do respond to love. Please keep us updated on his progress.


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## prinellie (Mar 16, 2016)

Yes. Absolutely the public schools are nothing but liberal brainwashing places and they graduate ANYONE they possibly can. This country is full of kids that have NO work ethic or ability to do critical thinking. We are in real trouble


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## GTX63 (Dec 13, 2016)

SLFarmMI said:


> 3. There are many reasons why someone may not be able to read. Perhaps people should stop assuming that it is due to poor teachers, parents and schools.


That would be correct. We do not know.
I'm pretty sure suspecting a part or all of the three reasons mentioned would be holding to the principle of Occam's razor.


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## RideBarefoot (Jun 29, 2008)

muleskinner2 said:


> This kid is no dummy. He grew up on a remote ranch, he can build fence, rope and doctor cattle in the pasture. He can drive a water truck, irrigate crops, weld, and a dozen other things. And by the end of the summer, he will be able to read. IQ scores and grades don't mean much to me. I graduated High School with a D-, and three months later passed the highest aptitude test the US Army had.
> 
> This morning he showed up and had my horses, mules, and goats fed before I finished my coffee. Around here they would say that he is, "making a hand".


This is the best thing I've read all day. What a great work ethic this young man has. Bless you for helping him.


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## farmrbrown (Jun 25, 2012)

SLFarmMI said:


> You obviously don’t get the point.
> 
> 1. If the young man truly has a disability, his being able to write his name after an intensive hour long session means nothing. Ask him again in a week or a month and see what you find.
> 
> ...


I understood that possibility when it was mentioned and for some, it is the case. For whatever reason, their brains can't retain things like most of us do.
That would likely have been revealed to Muleskinner in a day or two if this young man did have that particular disability.
Maybe by next week or so we'll get an update.
But so far, his only complaint is, he is working so fast, he might work himself out of a job, lol.
That's not a bad criticism for a boss to make.

I would also think that if he forgot what Muleskinner taught him already, we'd know by now.
The irony is that by hoping he succeeds, it doesn't look very favorable on our educational system.


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## AmericanStand (Jul 29, 2014)

muleskinner2 said:


> I thought I only had a few stories, till my wife told me that I had too many. And I haven't even told her the really good ones.


 My friends have my stories memorized and numbered up and about the 300 range I think .


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## Oxankle (Jun 20, 2003)

Good on You, Skinner. Hope the kid works out. We have few chances to do real good, and this is one for you.


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## Steve_S (Feb 25, 2015)

@muleskinner2 I have to commend you for trying to be a positive force in this young mans life. It is a shocking shame that ANY school anywhere would "crank out diploma's" to students who don't make the grade. Did the school fail, the administration, or the political bean counters ? More likely a combination of all of them, as schools are pressured to crank out students & reach targets with budget cuts after every election, one can see how this could happen. How many are actually lost in the wash ?

Patience and calmness will win the day and if you can teach him the fundamental basics, you are giving him the most important tools he can have for his future. This could also quite likely save him from ending up in bad situations ultimately landing in prison. So many prisoner's have diploma's but are functionally illiterate and unemployable YET no one connects the dots.

I hired two young lads last summer to help on the property, neither were well educated but were up front about what they knew & didn't know. Okay no problem, and after I taught them how to do fractional math (if your building things you must understand fractions) both became encouraged and they didn't have to "depend" on their phones for an answer. Unfortunately, their SmartPhone use of 15-20 minutes per hour, every hour wore thin and after being told 3x to leave the phone alone - packing they went. Work Ethics are also something no longer taught in schools, like critical thinking either.

BTW: *My GF is a Medical University professor teaching future "Doctors".* Almost every week one or two get hit with plagiarizing other works. Half cannot even write proper paragraph. The 101 List of excuses for late, unsubmitted assignments is completely worn out... seriously, one even submitted the "Dog ate my USB Key" OMG ! You cannot imagine the bull hooey these PHD Students pull and then they complain how they get failed for NOT submitting their works in a timely fashion & on schedule. Neither my GF or myself would ever see a Medical Doctor under the age of 50 ! You know what is the WORST THING in all that, that is a US State University (not private) and they "unofficially" insist that all International Students get to pass because they are paying a premium for studying in the US.


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## Ridgetop (Feb 11, 2019)

SLFarmMI said:


> It’s the assumption from the non-teachers here that, because the young man can’t read, he must have had lousy teachers that ticked me off. Did you miss the bit from the OP that the young man’s mother said he had a disability and couldn’t comprehend letters and numbers?
> 
> Teaching a student with those types of disabilities (specifically dyslexia, dysgraphia and dyscalculia) is a whole different animal.


There is a big difference between *learning disabiities *and mental retardation. It is a fact that most learning disabled persons have high IQs. Often their IQs are higher than normal persons. They were thought to be stupid because they were not able to learn read and write when taught in the same way as normal children. 

*My 2 brothers have dyslexia* - reading difficulties. With dyslexia letters and numbers are backwards, or sideways. In the worst cases the letters and numbers move across the page ad rearrange themselves. it is extremely difficult to learn to read and write under those circumstances. Some students can never cope and have to use books on tape is school. They were diagnosed when they entered kindergarten in Bellevue, WA. 

*My 3 sons have aphasia* - language based difficulties. They had trouble with syntax, and some early speaking problems. 
My oldest son is highly gifted, the other 2 boys are gifted. In spite of these problems, and early school problems the eldest boy has 3 AA degrees, the 2nd boy has a BA, the 3rd has a 2 year certificate from a Community college. The 2 elder boys are constant readers, but the 3rd boy finally told me that the letters sometimes moved when he was reading which bothered his eyes.

We were lucky that I knew about my brothers' learning disabilities. When my sons were beginning to show speech problems and learning problems I went to the library and read everything I could get on learning disabilities. This was pre internet. I was able to identify some of the problems myself, and have the boys tested. 

My older 2 boys had speech problems. In Los Angeles Unified School District we are lucky to have special programs for children with speech problems, learning disabilities, autism, etc. They were tested, the highly gifted child had been able to cope although his grades were barely high enough to pass. The Catholic school teachers had no idea what was wrong with him other than labeling him "lazy". As soon as I had him tested in the public school system he was identified, but unfortunately he was not the required 2 years behind his age level so he was not abe to receive any special help. However, knowing what his problems were allowed him to cope and he did better. His self esteem was severely damaged and he continued to think of himself as "stupid". In other words, he did not think he could do the work and often would give up. Once he was in college and receiving A's he realized he was smart enough to excel and did so. 

The 2nd boy was immediately diagnosed put into special education kindergarten where he continued continued until the 3rd grade when he was judged able to mainstream with special help. By the grace of God, his mainstream teacher had a son with aphasia and understood our son's problems. He eventually graduated from regular classes in high school with honors and got his BA in college. Due to the early intervention, and our constant explanation of his disabilities to him, he understood that he just had to work harder than the other kids. When helping with his homework in grade school, I often had to explain the questions to him and have him repeat back what he thought they were asking. This was part of the language aphasia disabiity. He is now a lineman.

Our 3rd son could not be properly identified. He was unable to spell or print well, but learned to read easily. His disability included being unable to recall the letters needed to spell the words based on their sounds. He also was identified in middle school as having a mild form of Attention Deficit without the hyper activity. We did not put him on any medication since his life on the ranch gave him plenty of exercise, however, we homeschooled him for 18 months before sending him to high school. We were lucky that our high school was trying out a split system of home schooling and in school classes. After graduation he opted to go to a trade college and received a 2 year certificate. Then he entered the electrical lineman apprenticeship. He excelled and has been a foreman since the age of 29.
All my children were in 4-H, were record book winners, County All Stars, and the 2nd boy was a state Diamond Star. They were junior leaders, camp counsellors, and won countless awards in livestock, presentations, etc. 4-H gave them the self respect they needed to keep their self esteem high enough to accept the disability and work through it to their potential.

My daughter is a teacher and it is true that the school no are pushing failing students through. She has been threatened many times with discipline if she fails any student. She was also reprimanded the using the word "consequences" to her students! The administration said it could not be used because it had a "threatening connotations"! I wonder if they would construe "You are fired!" as a threatening connotation?! Schools (and many parents) no longer hold their children to a standard of behavior.
We all lose by that. 

By working with this young man Muleskinner is doing a very good thing. 100 years ago, many people could barely read or write. It was not considered unusual since they were skilled at ranching, building, and other trades. It is only today with our public schools that we expect it and are shocked by illiteracy. 

Continue the good work, remember that *learning disabilities* take many forms, and a person can have several at a time. LD persons do not learn the way most people do, but they can learn. Some can learn through the spoke word while others are visual learners. Some cn only learn tactilely and through doing. There are very few whose disabilities are so great they cannot learn at all.


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## secuono (Sep 28, 2011)

Alice In TX/MO said:


> I discovered that many of my high school English students didn’t know to make pictures in their heads as they read.


There's an actual condition for this. They cannot "imagine", their minds are just blank & they don't dream in pictures/motion.
Congenital Aphantasia

You couldn't pay me enough to work in fast food again. The people above you treat you as disposable trash. Who cares if you have school, who cares if you're working too many hours, eat n work at the same time or work extra after your shift, stay late or come in early or on days off at a drop of a hat or risk being fired or not see a pay increase. 
Then there is the public that treats you like crap as well. And then if you happen to work in the kitchen, they don't care that you're over heating & light headed, you're replaceable. Suck it up, sweat through your clothes & make that 50cent burger before the buyer starts screaming at everyone that it is 2 seconds too slow.
Robots would be nice, then they can't make people feel worthless. 


I don't know where all of you guys are & the schools are that you say shovel kids through. My schools had zero tolerance, plus they gladly kept you back & you had to do the work to get through & graduate. Then again, I remember signs in the buildings claiming they were in the top 100 schools in the country, not that any of us thought so. I had zero help & hardly made it through. We had teachers for special needs kids & they were kept in as many regular classes as they could handle.

As for the adult that can't read. Does he retain that info or will he just forget in a week or two? How do you help that type of issue? Seriously curious on that one. Or maybe he is a chronic liar. This isn't a rarity, neither are mental disorders. 

As for the whole IQ mess, it doesn't mean much of anything.


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## SLFarmMI (Feb 21, 2013)

Ridgetop said:


> There is a big difference between *learning disabiities *and mental retardation. It is a fact that most learning disabled persons have high IQs. Often their IQs are higher than normal persons. They were thought to be stupid because they were not able to learn read and write when taught in the same way as normal children.
> 
> *My 2 brothers have dyslexia* - reading difficulties. With dyslexia letters and numbers are backwards, or sideways. In the worst cases the letters and numbers move across the page ad rearrange themselves. it is extremely difficult to learn to read and write under those circumstances. Some students can never cope and have to use books on tape is school. They were diagnosed when they entered kindergarten in Bellevue, WA.
> 
> ...


Not sure why you are addressing this to me. You do know that I am a special education teacher of more than 20 years, right? I teach children with learning disabilities, cognitive impairments, autism, emotional impairments, ADHD, speech and language impairments, physical impairments and combinations of the above. Next year, I will be getting a student with severe aphasia.


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## Bungiex88 (Jan 2, 2016)

muleskinner2 said:


> I hired a twenty year old kid yesterday. I needed someone to help me build a house. Sometimes you just need someone to hold the end of a board.
> 
> He told me he was a High School graduate, but he can't read or sign his name. He doesn't have a drivers license, and he had to call his mother to get his social security number. His mother told me that the teachers at school had said he had a disability and couldn't comprehend letters or numbers.
> 
> ...


The department of education at its best.


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## Alice In TX/MO (May 10, 2002)

Many parts of our system are broken


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## Michael W. Smith (Jun 2, 2002)

Writing cursive is sadly a dying way to communicate. In our school district, cursive is taught for a short time in I think 9th grade. Once it's over, it's over and for the most parts, the kids don't write cursive again.

Most homework is done on the computer - no writing involved. Most kids communicate by device - texting on a cell phone, iPad, or computer. Again - no writing involved. I know many graduated kids who can't read or write cursive.

As for graduating the student if they can't read or write - schools aren't for education anymore. It's all about the state tests or standardized tests. Teachers have to follow a curriculum - which is about passing the tests. The teachers then teach what is most likely going to be on the tests.


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## Alice In TX/MO (May 10, 2002)

They just brought it back in Texas.


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## farmrbrown (Jun 25, 2012)

Steve_S said:


> @muleskinner2 I have to commend you for trying to be a positive force in this young mans life. It is a shocking shame that ANY school anywhere would "crank out diploma's" to students who don't make the grade. Did the school fail, the administration, or the political bean counters ? More likely a combination of all of them, as schools are pressured to crank out students & reach targets with budget cuts after every election, one can see how this could happen. How many are actually lost in the wash ?


I'll answer that question, because I had the same view in my original post and wondered if I had rushed too quickly to judgement.
I googled diploma requirements (in this case New Mexico, MuleSkinners location) and was surprised to learn a few things.

First, we're getting some info 2nd hand, so when his mom says "he graduated" that's not enough to know everything.
There are actually different "levels" of diplomas/GED's and for some of the severely learning disabled, they may have customized standards that they are taught and tested on that don't include the same standardized reading or math grade levels.
Those are clearly stated on the child's certificate even if they are a 'graduate'.
I don't know the criteria for all 50 states, but we should at least acknowledge that possibility before condemning all of his teachers or any others in the special education field, including a few posters on this thread.
I've never walked in their shoes, but someone close to me did for 3 decades.
Seeing my mom struggle with Alzheimer's now, I'm woefully aware how much patience she must have had and pray for more of it for myself.
You can never have enough kindness and patience when someone else isn't "getting it" as fast as you would like.






> Patience and calmness will win the day and if you can teach him the fundamental basics, you are giving him the most important tools he can have for his future. This could also quite likely save him from ending up in bad situations ultimately landing in prison. So many prisoner's have diploma's but are functionally illiterate and unemployable YET no one connects the dots.
> 
> I hired two young lads last summer to help on the property, neither were well educated but were up front about what they knew & didn't know. Okay no problem, and after I taught them how to do fractional math (if your building things you must understand fractions) both became encouraged and they didn't have to "depend" on their phones for an answer. Unfortunately, their SmartPhone use of 15-20 minutes per hour, every hour wore thin and after being told 3x to leave the phone alone - packing they went. Work Ethics are also something no longer taught in schools, like critical thinking either.



So true.


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## muleskinner2 (Oct 7, 2007)

Miss Kay said:


> I am so glad this young man found you MuleSkinner. My guess is your years of working with training horses/mules has prepared you for this task. My husband has a gift for working with animals and his techniques would work great with people with disabilities too. He is consistent, patient, simple commands, never move to the next lesson until the first is well learned, he gives lots of praise and very little negative reprimands (although sometimes they need it) and he cares. Animals and people both know when they have a leader that has their best interest at heart. They truly do respond to love. Please keep us updated on his progress.


I wish I could say that my years of training horses and mules helped me with this kid. When he first told me that he couldn't read or sign his name, I asked him if he was lazy or just stupid. He said that all he ever wanted to be was a cowboy, and work on a ranch. School was boring and that he would rather be out riding. He didn't put any effort into learning, and after a while the teachers just left him alone. 

He realizes now that it is very hard to get along in the world if you can't read and wright. So, we spend an hour each day reading and doing simple math. I make him use the tape measure, and wright down all of the numbers. Then explain to me what cut to make and why. He is making good progress, and yes he can sign his name in cursive. 

I don't know who dropped the ball with his education. The teacher, the parents, or both. And I don't really care. I have a good helper to help me build my house, and he is learning to read.

When I first posted about this kid, I had no idea that there would be this much of a response. So many different opinions on why this happened and whose fault it was. It has reinforced my opinion about opinions. Opinions are like butts, everybody has one, and they all stink.

I have to go now, this damm kid is working me to death.


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## Ridgetop (Feb 11, 2019)

SLFarmMI said:


> Not sure why you are addressing this to me. You do know that I am a special education teacher of more than 20 years, right? I teach children with learning disabilities, cognitive impairments, autism, emotional impairments, ADHD, speech and language impairments, physical impairments and combinations of the above. Next year, I will be getting a student with severe aphasia.


??? Not addressing it to you. ??? 
It was an explanation of learning disabilities to those posters who commented that the kid was lazy or just "dumb", his parents were bad, or the schools were not doing their jobs. Learning disabled kids that are not identified (as you know) often become problems in school to cover their inabilities to learn in the normal way. A lot of LD persons who were never identified and properly taught have consequently ended up in prisons. Schools often fail to identify LD students. 

I am glad someone sees his potential and is taking time to help him.


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