# Setting your blades



## Ross (May 9, 2002)

Hope this helps








This shows the comb set too far back, it's against the rest but it's still too far back








Set right on the rest you can see the cutter will sweep off the cutting surface of the comb, and it will cut the sheep's skin








So the comb gets advanced and secured. Don't be in love with straight either sometimes they'll end up crooked, I'll explain later








Now the cutters sweep is always on a cutting surface. The comb could be set back a little to set the cutter a bit further ahead but we're into milimeters. Now to check the throw.








This is a Sunbeam cutter and it's right off the comb to the right (looking from the top) There's a chance we could still use this cutter on this comb if we set the comb a bit crooked, now I know it won't because it will come off the left side if I do) It can cut your sheep too but if I was stuck I'd have it come off the left side because I predominantly shear right handed and I'll have better control of the sharp edge, and it will be away from the sheep 95% of the time. I shear ambidexteriously (whoo boy I hope that's spelled right )








That's because the Sunbeam cutter is wider than the Heineger Jet as shown. The jet will throw fine on this comb and I can keep it straight.

Setting tension to start, is fairly easy, just turn the knob until it just starts to get tight and the cutter isn't loose. Then start shearing and tighten as needed but only to a minimum and in average wool not the dry stuff on the neck. Keep the blades well lubed, and don't stand there holding the clipper running without cutting.


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## Liese (Dec 12, 2005)

What great info and experience you are passing on, thanks!


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## Terry W (Mar 10, 2006)

Wonderfull!! Thanks for the help-- I think I am shearing a neighbor's small flock this weekend!!!( IF the weather gets better-- if not- wait for the snow to melt-- AGAIN!!)


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## Jan in CO (May 10, 2002)

Woohoo, Ross. Those are some wicked looking combs! I have one, but have been afraid to use it, since my friend advised me they always used a goat comb on their show sheep, less chance of cutting the skin. It's more straight toothed, not curved out like yours. What do you think? Are there tricks to using those wild looking ones? Jan in Co


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## Ross (May 9, 2002)

I have some of the combs you have and they're terrific too. These mohair combs are just a bit faster and gather in more wool on every pass. Yeah they can scoop in some skin too now and then until you're used to them. The round combs are much easier to set the throw on. If your comb is less than 13 teeth it's a blocking comb, and very difficult to use close to the skin. The show folks could tell you better, but I think they're just for "sculpting" the outer wooly areas. I have one nice and safe in the drawer where it won't hurt anyone.


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## Cat (Jun 19, 2004)

That's fantastic Ross - probably the most appreciated info. I've gotten from you. I agree, those are wicked combs. Mine is a PC10 so what you mention about comb # means that I'm using a comb for heavily fleeced ewes that might not be the most appropriate. However, if my *thinkin* is correct my PC10 would be less likely to cause wounds than a comb such as yours because the teeth are closer together - no? 

Also, do you dip your shear into oil? The shearers had a can, similar to the can used by the Tin Man in Wizard of Oz, and they would juice up every 5th sheep (give or take) by squirting oil where needed. Right now I have a small bottle of Andis oil and I give a few squirts while the blade is running & into the holes along the head however I've seen that when they shear alpacas they'll dip the entire head in oil - is this a necessity due to an alpaca not having lanolin or is it a wise idea to do even with sheep?

My new comb & cutters should be in the mail tomorrow - I hope! Granted, I can't shear again until next week since it SNOWED today (yeah, in April...  ) but it'll warm back up Mon. and I can continue finishing up the gals...


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## Cat (Jun 19, 2004)

BTW...if it matters or would be considered I think this would be a great thread to sticky.


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## John Hill (May 12, 2002)

Yes Cat, frequent oiling of the comb and cutter is the norm though I suspect sometimes it is just as much an excuse for the shearer to straighten his back!


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## Cat (Jun 19, 2004)

> though I suspect sometimes it is just as much an excuse for the shearer to straighten his back!


That I would believe (which by the way has always been my excuse not to shear ... It'd KILL my already bad back.)

What threw me was seeing the alpaca shearer dip the entire head into the lubricant. (Dirty Jobs with Mike Rowe on Discovery) I didn't know if they did that because of the lack of lanolin (I'm assuming that alpaca don't have lanolin) or if it was just easier than squirting a few drops here & there...


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## Ross (May 9, 2002)

I'm not up on the numbers PC10 etc. or at least I can't recall what that would be. Just count the teeth 13 is pretty noraml for any style of comb, 14 is OK but you'll feel the added tooth, 10 and 9 are blockign combs. I've seen shearers dip the whole head into a can of thier special mix of oils. Their combos never worked out for me and I haven't found a mix I like. Think kerosene and 5w30, or just about any other oils out there and they've been thinned just so to oil a shearign head, and their creators are quite pleased with it. I use ready made Heiniger shearing oil out of a little bottle, which is fairly expensive but works for me. I just zip a little across and behind the blades after each sheep and oil the joints, every 3-5 saheep which is excesive I'm told. No wonder I'm always broke.


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## Liese (Dec 12, 2005)

When I'm shearing, the blades get hot (within minutes) and I have the tension all or almost all the way down in order to keep the cutter on. Does this mean my comb and cutter are too thin? What do I need to look at to correct? I am lubricating at the oil points on this older 2 1/2" , 3 pt Stewart/Oster and running a bead of oil between comb and cutter as I'm shearing - it takes me about 45 min. to shear 1 ewe (ok, you can stop laughing now) I shear with the sheep standing haltered and we pause to clean the head, oil, cool frequently; trim a couple feet, have a drink of water & give sheep a cookie etc. 5 done, 3 more to go. By the way, I've been told that the spring clip on this shearer is not available any longer, so replacing this doesn't seem to be an option.


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## John Hill (May 12, 2002)

Liese, yes a thin cutter would require the tension to be screwed further down but I dont think a thin comb would make any difference. 

If it takes 45 minutes to shear one sheep then you are likely spending quite a bit of time with the shears "cutting air" which I think tends to make them hot.

They will also get hotter if they are not sharp and the tendency with dulled gear is to increase the tension.


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## Liese (Dec 12, 2005)

Thanks John for your thoughts, although everything "looks" sharp, and I was told they were sharp, they are used and I didn't have a chance to send these out for sharpening before using. The comb is a 17 tooth, maybe this is a factor? I do try not to cut air too much; oil, turn on, let extra oil spray off a moment and then begin. Do a few passes from the spine down on each side and then turn them off. Brush the head, set down to cool and pull off the fleece I just cut. So for anyone wanting to take lots of time shearing- this is how you do it!


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## Ross (May 9, 2002)

It sounds like they are dull, not many reasons for a shear not to work well. They could be beyond sharpening if the cutter and comb are very thin which means you'll only get a sheep or two before the edge is gone. The spring is the one to hold the cutter fingers/forks on? I forget what my Sunbeam shears were like in detail.


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## Slev (Nov 29, 2003)

Well talking to Wendle today got me geared up to shear a few sheep tonight just before dark I managed to get 3 done. OMG, my old method, (and me beinf left handed) I had my sone and nephew or 3rd person catch grab and hold a ewe until we flipped her on an overturned cattle waterer. There I started with her belly wool and around her rump and other taggy areas. Then take a break for a minute while we removed all of the trash wool. Then we'd start real long strokes from the rump area all the way up to around the neck area I could get. Rolling a litte with each cut until we got farther than the middle of her back. Then I'd switch sides, and repeat the process. For most of the time, this worked well for me, except it involves a min. of 3 people and tims are getting harder to round up them young fellas to help out. 

So, in talking with Wendle today, she said she sheared 8 all by herself! Well when we got home I was pumped! We've had an old shearing stand for a few years but for some reason never really tried it. My son still helped me catch them while I lubed up my Lister Laser shears. I was happy when yesterday I double checked the camper and found 6 brand new cutters and 2 new combs! We were looking for these for some time! 

If cutting on a stand, we start with one big long pass right down the middle of her back, then clean up around the rump area and then hit each side starting at as high up on the neck as we can get without poking her in the eye or cutting off an ear. But cutting this way, we roll each side up under her while I continue cutting. They actually stood pretty well, we even dewormed and they trimmed feet easy without all of the flipping and jerking. 

But Ross, I think I may be cranking down too tight on my cutter when starting out. So you say, you want them just tight enough that they do not fall off? then tighten as you shear huh? and all these years! so about how often whould you say you should be tightening these things up? every other sheep? more less? 

Also, what about using Singer sewing machine oil? I've been thinking about buying it, or is it too thin? Today, while looking for all of the stuff needed for shearing, we found a small bottle of shearing oil from Primier1.

So what do you charge for sharpening? Is it going to be worth it to ship to Canada from Illinois you think? I'd just assume to give you my business as you are on HT and all, but I'm a little concerned over the US/Canada thing?


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## Ross (May 9, 2002)

Initially you'll end up adding a fair amount of tension. After that you should get 10+ sheep before you readjust the tension. Some blades lose their edge fast, I guess they got too hot after being resharpened losing their tempering? I keep a finger on the comb and cutter when sharpening, so I can tell when they get hot. I tried Singer sewing machine oil once, and it nearly cost me my head, I guess it depends on your wife. It's better than 3in One, but it's similarly a bit tacky. 
Cross border shipping is a pain if you use a courier, they charge nasty brokerage fees. I was charging $6 CND per set of comb and cutters, $2 per additional cutter, with a set. Mail is slow and there's always a risk of loss damage etc. I've always thought finding someone locally is best, unless you're stuck.


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## Liese (Dec 12, 2005)

Yes Ross, the spring clip is what holds the cutter to the comb. So if the tension knob on my unit isn't within a half turn of totally tightened down the whole bit will shoot off - know this from experiencing it...yikes! Since I don't have any new cutters or combs to compare I have no idea if what I'm using are thin. Too bad 'tho I have left the ram and wether for last. I have been starting just above the tail and working towards the neck, from Slev's note it seems I'm going the wrong way?


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## Slev (Nov 29, 2003)

Liese said:


> I have been starting just above the tail and working towards the neck, from Slev's note it seems I'm going the wrong way?


I wouldn't say that! remember, I'm left handed that just seems to work the best for me. Although I think I recall the official Aussie method going from the neck all the way down the backside to the tail. It seems to be easier I think. 

After I make my main pass down the middle and on over the tail, I find I spend a lot of time on the rump cleaning off a lot of bad wool. 

When I used the overturned cattle waterer, I started with the belly then tall around the rump area and just about any other bad spot with wool tags, then it worked great to spend a minute cleaning off all of the scrap wool before moving on to the good stuff.


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## John Hill (May 12, 2002)

Slev, there are diagrams of the New Zealand/Australian method here.


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## Liese (Dec 12, 2005)

Definitely it makes a lot of sense to do all the dirty areas first, make a clean sweep and then shear off. One of the reasons I so slow is that I am seperating out as I cut into 3 piles - prime, good and dog bed. I process the wool for spinning and making quilts. I'll have to try running neck to tail, though with truly sharp equipment would be a fairer test.


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## wendle (Feb 22, 2006)

Slev has been a shearing fool lately, I'm so proud  . I do have to correct that statement of me shearing by myself though. I have the help of one or two dogs. First my dog will gather sheep from the pasture and bring them close to the barn. I direct her to sort out around 5-8 sheep that haven't been sheared yet. She moves these selected sheep to a gate and into the barn, or a holding pen. Once they are brought in a smaller pen then I have the dog hold the sheep in a corner until I catch one, then once caught and being sheared she lays down and waits until I'm done. Once I'm done and open the gate, she keeps them from returning to the rest and pushes them through the gate. This works great because the dog brings me the sheep right to where it needs to be tied, then once tied she takes the pressure off so the rest of the sheep can leave. So actually it's a 1 person 1 dog effort. This saves me lots of walking and I don't have to wrestle the sheep to where it will be sheared or even handle it util that point.


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## John Hill (May 12, 2002)

Liese said:


> Yes Ross, the spring clip is what holds the cutter to the comb. So if the tension knob on my unit isn't within a half turn of totally tightened down the whole bit will shoot off - know this from experiencing it...yikes!



Liese, obviously I dont know about every type of shear but the ones I have used had the spring clip to hold the 'forks' (which engage via little pins on their tips with the cutter) in the 'yoke' which is the big bit that disappears into the machine.

The yoke pivots on a little post while the tension knob pushes a pin down to apply pressure on the yoke. So it is the position of this post, the position of the tension knob and of course the thickness of the cutter that sets the tension.

Referring to the first picture that Ross posted I believe that single screw we can see on the underside of the shears is this post. Screwing this screw in would increase the tension though normally this is never adjusted but if someone has messed with your shear maybe this post is out of adjustment which is being compensated by screwing the tension knob right down. Just a thought.

Ross, have you lost the lock nut off that post?


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## Liese (Dec 12, 2005)

Hi John, Thanks for your last, these Stewart shearmasters don't have that single screw on the underside but what you are suggesting might still applicable and I'll do a bit of fiddling to see how the yoke is tensioned down inside the head. I can see a wire spring up over the top. Hopefully I can take this apart and back together better than the toaster at age 5!


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## Cat (Jun 19, 2004)

I need help! I'm trying to get my ewes sheared. OK...Yes, I'm late but better late than never, right? Bought a used shearmaster last year and got one sheep partially done but realized the cutters were pulling wool so I stopped. Based on the info. I've gathered, I bought 1 new comb and 2 new cutters thinking that I could get 14 sheep done with this. Uh, no. I've gotten 1 and 7/8 done. Got that second one about half way done and noticed that it wasn't shearing as well as it had been so I switched to the new cutter with the used new comb and then it wouldn't cut at all. I don't know what's going on. I have Andis oil & lube it up frequently, yes, I do cut air too much but all things considered I imagine I'm not ruining a blade in 1.7 sheep doing so. I don't know how I am going to get the remainder done if I have to buy a full set for every sheep. I don't know what else would be pertinent info. They're heavily wooled & I do have to do a bit of soiled-wool-cutting on the butts. I improved on my second sheep and was able to get the wool off in one piece all but for the upper neck & head. Oh, well and about a 4 inch strip along the back that I'd not finished when the shear petered out on me. Sending them in to be sharpened isn't feasible if I have to do it after each ewe! So, anyone have any ideas...talk about beating a dead horse. :bdh:


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## Ross (May 9, 2002)

New blades aren't exactly sharp blades. They are, but not really. I sharpen my new stuff as soon as I open the package. I would have thought they'd do more than you're describing though. You're setting the tension snug enough? What happens if you tighten it up a bit?


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## Cat (Jun 19, 2004)

Ross actually I've been tightening it as far as it will go - turning until I meet resistance and stopping. It seems like even the slightest easing of the tension results in the cutter flying off so I've been keeping it tight. 

Do you think I need to send these in to have them sharpened rather than buying another set of combs/cutters? I was actually going to buy another pair but if they're not as sharp as they can be new then it'd probably be better to just have these sharpened, you think?


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## Ross (May 9, 2002)

They probably need sharpening alright but you should have a good range of tension to apply and release on the clippers, so I think there's something wrong if the blades fly off so easily. Maybe the head needs cleaning (taking right apart) or maybe the tension rod is bent or broken inside the head. What shearing head do you have on it?


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## John Hill (May 12, 2002)

Cat, Ross, although not really sharp when the come out of the box I am sure they are 'sharp enough' to do at least a few sheep. Here are my thoughts:

New cutters are thick and because of their shape they have longer points than they will have later in life when they have been ground a few times.

Combs, depending upon design, dont have a cutting surface right to their tips. So, putting new cutters on the comb leaves little leeway for adjustment and if the cutter points are extending past the ground surface of the comb they will surely act suprisingly blunt!

Furthermore, the amount of the cutter that actually does the work depends somewhat upon the speed of the shearer and only a really fast worker will use more than the tips of the cutters.

My suggestion, move the comb further out, if you are starting with another set of combs and cutters I suggest starting with the comb out as far as safe (it has to be secure under those big screws in Ross's picture) and move the comb back in slightly with each new cutter so that the tips get a fresh area of the comb to run over.

I hope that helps.


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## Cat (Jun 19, 2004)

Oh wow! I think John may have nailed it! I did notice that ground surface but actually thought it was a result of shearing - not designed that way!  Whodathunk that there was so much to this shearing business?!?  

Ross, it very well could be that the head needs cleaned. The only thing I know about it is that it's a 2.5" model. Oster 311A, I think? I'd have to check. I know it's single speed. I'm afraid to get in there and do any serious tearing apart because I'm not mechanically inclined in the least and was absolutely THRILLED when I learned that the cutter popping off was because it was a tension issue rather than an "oh, I bought a lemon shear" issue.

I'm going to go back out and try to readjust the cutter on the comb again on my next day off and see if that can't improve the situation. Wow wouldn't that be nice if it did?!?

Can you give blonde-proof instructions on how to clean the head, Ross or John?


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## Ross (May 9, 2002)

You're using a three point cutter? That it flies off so easily concerns me. These cutter heads aren't overly complicated. Less so than a rifle or shotgun- torn down and reassembled. Anyone good at gun cleanign there? They'll have no trouble. I forget exactly where the screws etc are on a 311, (I had one years and years and years ago) essentially you take it apart with a screw driver or by hand and reassemble the way it comes apart. Terrible not-blonde-prrof instructions, maybe John can do better


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## Cat (Jun 19, 2004)

Yeah, the cutter is a PC3. My Dad and bro both can clean guns...I'll have to try to see if they can help. I've taken the rod out once before ...before I realized what it was. I was afraid that I'd ruin something so I popped that little turkey right back in and have been sure to not take the screw off again!


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## John Hill (May 12, 2002)

Sorry but I cant give any details on dismantling your particular shear but I understand the front half of most shears is the same and had been for a couple of generations. Principles the same but details differ.

If you are having problems with the cutter flying off it may not be a matter of tension. Those things we call the 'hens feet' that rest on the cutter should have definite little pins to engage with the holes in the cutter. These can get broken off if a cutter does fly off to allow the hen's foot to jam in a comb, this might have happened before you got the machine. From memory, I dont think every 'toe' has a pin. It should be a real little pin, not just a knob of metal. These chicken feet are replaceable and I expect will come out of the 'yoke' if you give them a 90 degree twist. They are only held in by a spring.

Then of course the hens feet may be seized in the yoke which would stop them twisting as required to seat properly on the cutter, fairly unlikely in my opinion (humble though it is).

By the 'rod' Cat do you mean you completely unscrewed the tension knob and lifted out the rod that goes down to the yoke? If I recall correctly that rod has a ball shape on each end and the end that goes in the yoke (i.e. the bottom end) must fit into a little sprung loop, perhaps if that is not in the correct place you might get uncertain tension. If it is broken as Ross suggested you might have only got half of it out, I am sure there is a ball shape on each end so thats something you can easily check.


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## Cat (Jun 19, 2004)

Well I did it! I took this puppy apart and cleaned everything & slapped it back together. I was fortunate enough to even get a diagram online demonstrating the parts & how they're assembled so I was able to check mine against what it was supposed to have and I don't believe I'm missing anything. The rod is straight. I have photos but I'm at work so I will have to post them tomorrow. Sat. will be my next day available to try to shear so I'll have to give it a go and report back how successful you were trying to teach me from thousands of miles away! Might I add, that I'm really impressed with my knowledge of shears now thanks to you two! My sheep & I thank you!


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## Cat (Jun 19, 2004)

Oh, John..the yokes do have those prongs, two flat feet & two conical point prongs that poke through the smallest hole. I also made sure to get the rod back through that little wire loop & it's seated in there ...my test buzz sounded great and nothing went kaboom! so that's a good thing, right?!? LOL


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## John Hill (May 12, 2002)

Sounds good Cat but I am not so sure of those descriptions of 'conical points', if I recall correctly there should be a definite little peg on the tips of those cones. I will try and find a picture but I dont hold out much hope. If they are just conical bits that could be why reducing the tension a little causes the cutter to fly off. You would need a good camera to take a picture to put on here.

Ross, maybe you can help with a picture? I am afraid I cant do one from here, I have the suitable camera equipement but we dont even have the farm now let alone any shears to photograph!


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## John Hill (May 12, 2002)

Nope, I cant find any picture that shows what a good fork (hen's foot) point should look like. :grump: 

In the absence of anything else I can only suggest that the fork points are somehow damaged as the cutter can only fly off if those points get out of place. Unless of course there is something I am overlooking.

Cat, is it possible for you to post a good picture of your shears? Showing an up close of the cutter mounted on the machine?

John


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## Cat (Jun 19, 2004)

John, I have photos that I took yesterday but am having problems with getting any uploaded to Photobucket or Ebay, and I can't even get them to publish to my website. I don't know if it's an ISP problem or what. Anyway, I'll post some that I'd taken just as soon as I can.


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## Cat (Jun 19, 2004)

OK...Finally got my photos uploaded to photobucket. Here's a variety of what I'd taken - I didn't get them all uploaded yet but got several of the yokes. They're not the clearest photos in the world but they're the best I could do.

http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v64/kittycat731/Shear/


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## John Hill (May 12, 2002)

Cat, it says that is a private photo folder, can you make it public? Thanks


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## Cat (Jun 19, 2004)

Oops..done.


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## Ross (May 9, 2002)

Hmmmm looks good to me, 100_7637 shows the points John's talking about, they look good to me. They fit into coresponding holes on the cutter?


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## Cat (Jun 19, 2004)

Yep. I'm hoping to shear a few more today so I'll have a chance to see if my improved knowledge (or cleaner machine!) can make the process easier.


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## John Hill (May 12, 2002)

Well I have to admit defeat from this distance, it all looks hunkey dorey, or ever better, in those photos. Unless the yoke is somehow not properly in place I cant imagine how the cutter could fly off. 

Sorry I have not been able to solve this on for you..


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## Cat (Jun 19, 2004)

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAARRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Whew! Feel better now. 

K. So. I went out this morning HAPPY as a lamb on a cool spring day thinking I was going to get some sheep sheared. Grabbed the wooliest beast I could find and didn't no more get a 10" strip on her belly sheared when MY SHEAR BROKE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

This time it was the retaining spring for the yokes, I do think, that broke. WHAT ON EARTH IS GOING ON HERE?!? I'm not that hard on machinery. Egads I'm going NUTS. 

So, I'm thinking I'm going to sell this bad boy and buy a brand new shear and if THAT doesn't work then I'm going to label it user error and sell every sheep I own and curse them till the day I die.


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## John Hill (May 12, 2002)

> ....sell every sheep I own and curse them till the day I die.


 Pretty much what our family did eventually!  

Which spring broke? Is it the one that is clearly visible in 100_7650? Hard to imagine how it would break unless it is just the old problem of cutter flying off but this time managed to snag that spring. 

I better take another closer look at your pictures. Picture 100_7649 shows the yoke upside down and at the left hand side I can see the pin that rests in the socket I can see in the main body piece above the drive shaft in picture 100_7647. That little pin looks like it should have some sort of bearing, maybe even a ball with a hole through it like that one I can see for the drive shaft end. The question is, does that pin on the yoke rest snugly in the socket in the main body piece, if something is missing from there it would explain everything.


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## Cat (Jun 19, 2004)

OK..Now I'm thoroughly confused about what you're referring to. I've gone ahead and done a diagram of my photo based on the Hemp Clipper repair diagram I found online here: http://www.clipperrepair.com/parts.htm?mid=51 










First things first, when I removed the item I have diagrammed as the Tension Nut (the topmost screw-on cap thingy wrongly labeled above as the Tension Nut Cup), I removed that, the Threaded Bushing and Tension Spring, and the Tension Nut Cup as one piece. When I saw the diagram I got the distinct impression that the Threaded Bushing (which has the Tension Spring around the lip as shown in 100_7659) should actually be screwed into the cover, so I did that and then placed the Tension Nut Cup inside the Tension Nut before screwing it back in place. 

The Crank Roller fell out before I fully got the housing opened, so I wasn't sure where it came from but I replaced it on the 'crankshaft?' which is attached to the lower half of the head, when putting everything back together. I got this idea from the diagram as well.

Finally, after looking at the diagram again tonight it appears that the Tension Spring actually attaches to the Tension Pin & is then screwed onto the fork. On this shear, the Tension Spring is attached to the Fork & the Tension Pin then inserted through that. I'm not sure which is correct or if it matters. I have also tightened the Tension Spring Screw & Nut which might not have been the right thing to do. I wasn't sure and the nut was only screwed on about half way and I didn't like the looks of that.

Now that's a whole lot of terminology that I have absolutely no clue about so I'm using what I've been able to discern from the online diagram - I hope it's easier to follow that way. 

The piece that is now broken is the right 'leg' of the Retaining Spring which has the thin, flat prong that holds the cutter in place. The piece that actually holds the cutter was sheared off - no pun intended. Also, the Retaining Pin, in the diagram, appears as if it's situated above the yokes. In my photo, as you can see, it is below. That could be a problem if that is in the wrong spot - I haven't a clue which is correct, though. I don't even know if it would fit on top on my actual machine. That'd be something I'd have to fiddle with to find out for sure.

Anyway, does that help decipher what the problem is, what I've found, and what I've tried to correct? :shrug:


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## Cat (Jun 19, 2004)

OK...If I'm understanding your question correctly there is nothing beyond a depression that the pin sits in, I put the pin through the tension spring & seat it in that depression. Using the diagram I can't quite tell if there should be anything else there that I might not have.


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## John Hill (May 12, 2002)

Hi Cat

You may feel free to cuss me for having used the wrong terminology! The diagram sorts it out though!

What I was referring to is shown in the diagram as number 51 'fulcrum seat'. I imagine that if the fulcrum pin, if not seating properly, could allow the fork to waggle about and cause the problem.

Regarding the tension nut and bits, I am sure the threaded bushing should be screwed tightly into the aluminium body. Then the rod dropped in and clipped into the spring on the fork. The cup then slipped is slipped in. The small spring marked as tension spring item 41 does nothing more than stop the top nut from working loose. (which of course maybe what is happening to you)

That retaining spring, the piece that broke, is something that most handpieces do not seem to have. I assume they are intended as a safety measure.
So thats two things I am trying to imagine:

1. The fulcrum is sloppy and allowing the fork to waggle about.
2. The spring that locks the tension nut is slack and allowing the tension to unwind.


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## John Hill (May 12, 2002)

A couple of hours later, I have had my breakfast, a shower, a short drive, done my session at the gym (another shower, I love hot water in the winter time) and when I look again there it is glaring at me!



> I removed that, the Threaded Bushing and Tension Spring, and the Tension Nut Cup* as one piece*.


That should not have come out like that! The threaded piece should be fixed in the housing and if it is loose I suspect the thread in the soft metal of the body has got worn and all sloppy. Screw this back into the housing and make sure it is firm, if in doubt you may have to resort to Loctite or equivalent sticky stuff!

So, add to the list:

3. Threaded bush is loose in head housing and/or gets to work loose.

I am still suspicious of the fulcrum as I notice quite a few ding marks on the side of the fork near the fulcrum pin.


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## John Hill (May 12, 2002)

So what was the outcome Cat? Thanks.


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## Cat (Jun 19, 2004)

Hi John!

Well, I finally went ahead and sold the ol' pain in the butt shears! Ha! I wasn't up to spending any more time trying to fix them since it was so difficult trying to determine what was what and decided that I'll just stick with the shearers who come to the sheep farm even though it means being a bit more dilligent about keeping tabs on when they're going to be around. I'm considering buying myself a new pair of shears with a 3" head, I do have a few older ewes that I don't like being tossed around too much due to age and fragility so I will more than likely continue to do them myself and I'll still be able to clean up bums & around the udders if/when needed.

Thanks for all of your help - I REALLY appreciate it and you 'done good' getting me to learn a bit about machinery!


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## John Hill (May 12, 2002)

Thanks Cat, it is too often a mystery as to how things finally turn out!

John


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## fantasymaker (Aug 28, 2005)

Great thread lotsa good info thanks you guys!


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## Ross (May 9, 2002)

Stuck by request


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## Cat (Jun 19, 2004)

Yay! Thank ya Mr. Ross. Much appreciated!


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## jode (Oct 24, 2007)

I read the Aussie link on how to shear and it looks really complicated to learn by drawing - probably fairly simple to learn by watching (wonder if there are any good videos on YouTube yet) but I do have this question. Should the objective be to remove the main fleece in a single piece? I keep reading about people starting out by shearing them down the spine and to me, it seems that would take the fleece into two pieces. When we sheared our ewe the other day (w/ scissors) we started at the head and took it off in a single piece working towards the rear. It was more work, but I was under the impression that that was the way to do it. Any thoughts? Is there value in getting a single "fleece."

Also, for definitions, what are second cuts?


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## Ross (May 9, 2002)

As a single fleece its easier to skirt the tags, it also helps while your shearing in that it rolls the fresh cut blow off the sheep and out of the way. I start at the head and neck making it a collar then down the right side (or left if it is more comfortable for you.... actually I'll switch sides just so I don't get a cramp) I clean off the one side to the spine and a little past. Then I'll swipe off the belly wool. Roll the sheep to expose the unshorn side and carry on where I left off moving the shorn area down the other side and to the rump. Oddly its easier with tthe cable drive shears than the motor driven shears. Not sure about You tube videos but there are some out there on tape and DVD. Look for Fiona Nettletons video (I forget the name) its a little slow to start but very educational


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## jode (Oct 24, 2007)

YouTube did not dissapooint and my mind is officially blown. Seeing someone sheer a sheep in 2 minutes after spending 6 hours on it is something else.

What are tags? What are second cuts.


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## Ross (May 9, 2002)

The pro's make it look easy, but its not really that hard and its not a race for the average person. Takes me under 10 minutes usually per sheep unless they're really jumpy and fight. 
Tags----any ugly wool usualy near the rump and edges.
Second cuts-----if the shep wiggles or you lift the shears and leave a patch of wool you go back and cut it as close as the rest. That second pass makes second cuts of short useless wool.

The other reason to aim for a complete fleece is so you can seperate the best parts of the fleece (off the shoulder for example) from the sides or back. It makes rolling and bagging easier in big operations for the homespinner just getting the wool off without second cuts is important.


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## John Hill (May 12, 2002)

If you can manage the 'sheep-on-butt' method you basically begin by taking all the dirtiest wool off first, belly then crutch area. At that point all thats left on the sheep is fleece and having an assistant sweep around the sheep at that point means you get a clean fleece falling in one piece onto a clean floor. Provided the shearer really did take off all the dirty wool there is hardly a need for skirting fleece at all, provided of course the sheep was not contaminated all over with bits of straw etc.


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## barnlooms (May 31, 2006)

I have a new pair of Shearmaster Clippers by Oster. I've done just about 10 sheep with them. 
Lately the last few sheep have caused problems with the clippers. 

Back in May I did 5 Dorset sheep that hadn't been shorn in years. By the time I got to sheep six, the clippers gave up cutting and I had to stop.

I changed blades, shore my Clun sheep, and proceeded to shear a Finnsheep that hadn't been shorn in years - the wool was SERIOUSLY felted but I got the fleece off.

Next I went to shear more Finnsheep, different owner, and the clippers acted like they were dull though they had only done the Clun and the one Ball O' Felt. This Finn was a bit felted as well, but I noticed the fleece near the skin was wet though the owner swore she kept the sheep in so they'd be dry.

Now I'm new to shearing, but I do love it and want to excel at it. 

My questions are:

Will felted wool dull a blade?

Will wet wool be difficult for the shears to cut?

I won't shear a wet sheep again, and stopped when I realized this one was wet, but the clippers simply wouldn't cut more than a half inch at a time for the most part. 
Was it the wool or the clippers?

Is there a way to shear badly felted sheep using the traditional shearing patterns and positions?

Seems just about every sheep I do, I have to abandon the traditional patterns just to be able to remove the several years growth without hurting the sheep.
I'm afraid the more I do so, that I'm going to develop bad habits, and I'd like to be able to shear the usual way. 

I'm going to check the seating of the combs according to the picture and description at the beginning of this thread and see if there is something there that may need adjusting.

I stop and add a drop or two of oil about everything 15 minutes or so though I am guilty of "shearing air". Now that I know better I'll stop doing that.

Thanks for any advice,

Kathryn


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## John Hill (May 12, 2002)

Kathryn, I think that no matter how felted and generally dirty the sheep is the few milimetres right close to the skin will be the cleanest and least matted and this is where you must cut if you are to avoid premature dulling of the cutter and comb. 



For sure shearers hate wet sheep though it is usually their own health and comfort they are concerned about as wet sheep can lead to nasty boils and all sorts of skin problems for the shearer. Wet sheep are also heavy! You cant put wet wool in a bale without inviting trouble! I dont know what effect wet sheep would have on the shears but I presume not good.

Shearers do tend to use a lot of oil!


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## barnlooms (May 31, 2006)

Thank you John.

It seems that I started out okay, but the more I shear the more difficulty I have. 
I hate to nick the sheep, but I seem to do so anyway. I'm thinking this makes me reluctant to get as close to the skin as I ought.

I know that Finnsheep seem to have very sensitive skin and the blade cutting so close that I can see the pink makes me a bit nervous, so I'm probably not getting as close as I should.

Any suggestions for keeping the blade flat on the skin? 
I know I need to but I'm not always sure if I am, especially when I'm entering the wool and can't see for that brief period before I can move it back and out of the way.

My cutters and comb are brand spanking new, I consider my clippers well oiled and I oil them often while shearing. I checked and made sure the cutter is seated well ( as per the pics ) seated well so all should proceed smoothly I think.

Is there a distinction between types of wool that would require a different set of cutters maybe?
As in fine wool vs. coarse?

Kathryn


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## Ross (May 9, 2002)

Brand new blades are often not very sharp. My term "flat to the skin" is probably not the best choice of words. Not raking them with the tips would be better. There's a sweet spot in the fleece where the cutter will glide through easily and if you are not running in that zone flat you'll be cutting coarser dry wool which will dull the blades. It's likely easier to stay in that zone with the tips down as John describes (somewhere) so they don't ride up and off the animal. I just don't think of it that way.


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## barnlooms (May 31, 2006)

I am shearing five sheep tomorrow and two more on Friday. 

My equipment seems to be in order, and I have experienced that sweet spot you mention but cannot seem to get it every time. More by accident than intent.

I've "dry" practiced the shearing pattern till I have it pretty well memorized, but seem to lose effectiveness during the actual removal of the fleece. 

Someone mentioned sharpening the cutters right out of the package. How is that done?
My hubby said he can probably do it if he knows the tools involved. It could make a difference.

Any suggestions on how not to nick the sheep? 

Thank you for your input,

Kathryn


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## Ross (May 9, 2002)

Everyone nicks the sheep at some point. Avoid pulling the fleece as you shear it lifts the skin into the blades. Part of the reason the traditional shearing method is used is so the weight of the wool doesn't pull on the skin as much as its shorn off.


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## John Hill (May 12, 2002)

I dont think there is any doubt that shearing a matted fleece is the hardest of all.

The tips of the comb should have a rounded end that does not feel sharp when you run it across your skin and it is only the tips that should touch the shin, there should always be a bit of clearance between those big screws that hold the comb and the skin, in other words the clippers are always tilted up and the comb does not run flat on the skin. I am not sure but I suspect having the comb run flat on the skin encourages cuts, especially the dreaded 'bootlace cut' and when you think of it there is only the thickness of the comb between skin and whizzing cutter! 

I think there are lessons that can be learned by 'shearing' a sack of grain though it might be hard to find a hessian sack of wheat nowadays!

The tradition with combs is to stroke the points on a softwood (i.e. pine) plank and old shearing sheds in NZ are generously decorated with the patterns of shearers having done this over the years! You stroke the points to remove that sharp feeling when pressed against your skin. The patter used is to make parallel groves in the wood.

There is quite a knack in holding the sheep so that the skin is always tight where you are working, for example when shearing the left side of the sheep lean him/her to the left so that the inside of the sheep rolls that way and holds the skin tight. Dont have anyone try to clear the fleece while you are shearing and if you can always roll the sheep so that the place where you are shearing is close to the floor especially when doing along the back, being close to the floor means less weight of wool pulling on the skin.

As Ross mentions there is that zone right close to the skin that is nice new wool, unmatted and nicely lanolinized (new word?). The way to stay in that zone is to glide the tips over the skin. 

Naturally enough you really only want to shear the sheep once so make every cut close to the skin!

Some nicks are to be expected but a tidy shearer will make the least and every fast shearer is a tidy shearer, IMHO of course!:lonergr:

Incidently, our local museum has a dummy sheep made of some white fabric and an electric 'handpiece' where visitors can try their hand at 'shearing' this 'sheep' which is covered in a pattern of bar codes which are read by the handpiece to show where you are going wrong.


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## barnlooms (May 31, 2006)

Hi all,

today I sheared four sheep.

I looked at the instructions for setting the comb, posted earlier - not sure if it was John or Ross, but it was an older post.

I reset the comb so that they didn't sit much past the big screws. Near as I could eyeball, that made the cutters about 1/8" from the bevel of the comb.

Went on to shear. 

I arrived and got my first sheep tipped. The wool is matted close to the skin and I'm afraid I'm going to cut the sheep which I hate doing. 
Also the ewe fought me alot for some reason.
When I thought I had her under control I approached the belly wool but I did have a time trying to penetrate the matted wool without cutting her. 

Ultimately the owner made the determination that putting the sheep on a shearing stand would make her feel better and at this point I agreed though I feel like I'm moving farther away from using the pattern and doing a professional type job.

Once the sheep were on the stand, the clippers worked very well. I had no problem as I had before, so it must have been the comb was set to far back.

Later, the clippers were dropped and I had to put the comb, cutter, spring and finger thing-ys that sit inside the fork back.

After I did, the danged shears were EXCELLENT!!! Go figure. The good news is that I really learned the workings of the moving parts of the clippers. So far so good.

I'm glad for the positive experience of using the clippers and actually getting that sweet spot that was referred to. But---- I'm not crazy about shearing sheep apart from the traditional way. OTOH, I can see a place for shearing sheep standing up, but personally, I want to use the fleece as a handspinners fleece so my goals for my shearing are :
to be efficient
no nicks
kind as possible to the sheep
get the fleece off in a timely manner and 
one whole piece

I've studied the patterns but when I get the sheep tipped and on it's hip, it seems to me that it's crumpled up, not smoothed out. I know to use my hand
to smooth the skin prior to shearing, but I'm still hesitant, cautious and intimidated. My blows are not sure.

My problem areas are the belly and the crutch. I'm scared of cutting there too.

I appreciate the explanation of having the comb on the skin, that makes a big difference to me as I haven't been at all really clear as to what is on the skin and what isn't. 

Tomorrow I have two more to shear. I hope to be able to tip them and do a decent job but the owner is somewhat of an animal lover and may not permit that, we'll see.

Kathryn


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## John Hill (May 12, 2002)

Kathryn, you seem to be making great progress and you are getting a feel how to set up the sheers.

IIRC the technique to entering the belly wool is to start on the brisket then lean the sheep to the right, so that her belly bulges over towards your right foot and the skin is nice and tight, then take a blind blow right down from her 'armpit' to her inner groin following that zone between belly wool and the fleece, dont nick a nipple though! By a blind blow I mean you cant really see where you are going

The next move is to shuffle forward just slightly so that her belly now falls forward and you are holding her from falling by your hand at about her left shoulder, try not to touch the feet and lower legs as that is a sure invitation to starting kicking! So, with her leaned slightly forward and her belly nice and tight do a series of blows from that opening blow across and down to her left groin, be careful with rams and wethers though!

The crutch area is always a tense stage! Ewes especially need care but if you are confident of holding the sheep with just your knees you might like to try putting your left hand over the sensitive bits and shearing over the top of your hand, does that make sense?

As far as I know the best ways to avoid cuts is to always lean the sheep so the skin is tight, to not allow the weight of the fleece to pull on the wool and to always keep just the tips of the comb in contact with the skin.


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## barnlooms (May 31, 2006)

Ah, thank you again for the info.

I'm so happy to have real time people to talk too. It makes things much easier.

I'm off to do two more today. Then I hope to do three of my own this weekend.

So far I'm up to 18 sheep. I'll be happy when I feel more sure about those sensitive areas.

It makes sense to start on the brisket as opposed to the belly. 

I'll apply everything you have all told me, and I'll let you know how it goes,

Kathryn


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## barnlooms (May 31, 2006)

What a day.

Arrived to find two large sheep, a wether and a ewe, in need of shearing. 

Not at all friendly and fortunately for me I brought my hubby to help.

I think these sheep must have weighed about 200 lbs.

I tried to tip the ewe, and what a job - yikes. I couldn't have done it by myself at this stage to be sure. Just too much sheep and too little me!

I decided to revert to shearing a standing sheep again.

The wool was difficult to get through, and my shears which worked so smoothly yesterday didn't cut nearly as well today. My conclusion is that the wool was very thick and I may have been using the wrong comb if that's possible. 

I use an Oster "grazer" which looks just like the one pictured at the beginning of this thread. 
I'm thinking on this breed of sheep I may need something in the future that wont' gather so much wool at once.

It was tough getting through to be sure.

I didn't even try to tip the second sheep since he was way less co-operative than the first, so hubby just managed the head of each sheep as I shore.

I'm also thinking it might be wise to invest in hand shears for a back up plan.

So my new questions are:

would a different comb have done better on the wool?

how in heavens' name am I supposed to tip and control this 200 lb flurry of hooves trying to escape me?

Does the wool type make a difference or is it my imagination and I should be more attentive to my technique?


My plan is to shear three of my sheep - one is a Corriedale the other two are Border Leicester crosses - tipping and doing the traditional pattern. They need to be done, and I know them. Being familiar and my own, I'm less inclined to performance anxiety as with other peoples' sheep.

So far, as of today I'm up to 20 shorn ( by hook or by crook ).

Good news is.............no nicks!! Yay!

Though the owner said the last professional shearer ended up cutting the scrotom of one sheep and having to stitch it up. 
Lord, please tell me I don't have to worry about that. If I do I'll be in deep trouble cause I do not want to stitch anything I've accidentally cut!


Kathryn


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## John Hill (May 12, 2002)

The practice when I was shearing was for the shearer to catch the sheep, unpend them and drag them about 10 feet or so to the shearing position. The usual technique was to stand beside the sheep, more towards the rear than front and to reach across to the other side to grab her nose which was drawn back towards the sheep's shoulder then by stepping back slightly the sheep will magically land on her butt! There is still a bit of a heave to get her upright. 

The Corriedale and more especially the Border Leicester should be quite nice to shear though if I recall correctly BLs for some reason do love to chew on one's T-shirt while the belly and crutch is being shorn! Unfortunately the sheep that play up the most are those that have been bottle pets and such like, high country (i.e. sub-alpine) sheep that only get close to a human a couple of times a year tend to sit like little darlings, IMHO.

I have only ever used the 'wide' combs and I am afraid I dont really know if one type of comb is better than another for a particular wool type. 

No nicks is quite something to feel satisfied about!:clap: Even expert shearers have the occasional accident though if I recall correctly the need for needle and thread was much less than some would pretend, I never had to sew any though I had at least my fair share of nicks.

Do you have to do many second cuts? If you find yourself going back and cutting off chunks that have been left that indicates you are not close enough to the skin. A lot of second cuts can be avoided if you remember to always keep the bottom tooth of the comb right on the skin.


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## barnlooms (May 31, 2006)

As much as I decry modern life at times, I've had the good fortune to see some videos on You Tube that show various shearing sheds, and hence I can envision what you are describing when talking of professional shearers and their techniques. I think I even know what a "down tube" is . ha ha

Oddly, I've incorporated the comment "cry-key" and it's habit now but more as a result of Steve Irwin than shearing.

I do have alot of second cuts especially on sheep that I shear in the standing position. 
Their owners are desparate to have them shorn and don't care the condition of the fleece so it's acceptable to them, but I'm a spinner and a weaver raising sheep with the idea of selling hand fleeces and how the fleece is shorn plays a big role in the price I'm paid. 
I don't enjoy dealing with second cuts myself, either.

I took a class on vet skills, given by Cornell that was specifically geared for sheep owners where they taught us to tip sheep, but it took me along while to get the hang of it. 

At least twice now I've had sheep that I couldn't reach around to grab the leg and twist the head at the same time as they were so big. Once I enlisted help and we laid the sheep on it's side and then rolled him into the sitting postion, the other we just did them standing.
Doing so leaves a lot to be desired and slows down the process considerably.
So I need to get good at tipping, even those huge sheep. No kidding these sheep yesterday were the size of small shetland ponies! They lived on an animal rescue farm, and you couldn't see a bony prominence on them.

Yesterday I tried to stay closer to the skin with the contact just the tips, but was inconsistant probably due to the postion I was shearing in.

I'm getting better at not being nervous about cuts, but there is so much to learn isn't there?

When springtime rolls around I'll definately take a shearing class offered by Cornell. I like the idea of someone holding my hand so to speak and I'll get a bunch of sheep to shear all adding to my gaining practical experience.

Thanks for the tip about the bottom tooth always being on the skin. 

I can't tell you how much it helps for you to impart all your knowledge. 
It gives me more confidence for the next time.

Wish you were here!!!

Kathryn


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## John Hill (May 12, 2002)

Kathryn, I would not touch the legs during the tipping process, in fact touching the lower leg or hoof seems to be a universal invitation to a frantic kicking match! Assuming you are right handed stand on the left side of your candidate, right hand on her right hip and left hand pulling her head back towards her right shoulder. She will try to move her rear towards you but your right knee is in her way then while she is a bit confused step back a little and using your right hand sort of roll her butt almost sideways towards the floor. As the rear end starts to go down you move your grip to the front and help the roll while lifting her head and shoulders. With a bit of luck she is now sitting between your knees with a, more than usual, confused, dumb look on her face! Tipping is really much easier if the sheep is trying to walk backwards when you start the manouvre so for a really heavy sheep it might be useful to have someone at the front of the sheep coaxing her backwards while you are in position to start the butt roll. Tipping the sheep for shearing is not so much a process of lifting her off her feet but more a technique for overbalancing her while lifing one end only, if she is moving backwards at the time it is all the easier.

I think there are many reasons to avoid second cuts, not only protection of the longer staple and the need to do a job twice but also because I am fairley convinced wear and blunting of the shear is much faster anywhere except in that clean zone right on the skin.

A bit more experience on here Kathryn and you will be able to show those tutors at Cornell a thing or two!


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## barnlooms (May 31, 2006)

I'm glad you've given me a reason NOT to do the leg grabbing. I've found it somewhat difficult to do but for the smallest sheep, and it seems rude and unnecessary.

I can envision the whole process you describe -I think it may be a question of practice to find just the right amount of "off balance" to achieve.

I meant to ask what you do to disinfect your equipment. 

I really don't want to bring any thing home to my animals and I also don't want to ever be responsible for transmitting anything to someone elses farm.

I wear foot protection, and presently am dismantling my cutters and comb to soak in a diluted bleach solution, then scrub with a brush to remove any dirt and fiber left over. 
Then I spray them with a commercial product, dry throughly and oil. 

I wipe the cord down with paper towels soaked in said bleach solution then put the cleaned cord inside a plastic bag.

When I finish at the farm, I remove my foot protection and footwear, bagging in plastic till I get home. I leave the foot covers at the farm.
Change clothes right away and throw them in the washer. Boots are sprayed with bleach, excess is collected in a bucket and goes into the sewer. 
Same treatment for hoof shears and any scissors I may use.

Occasionally I bring home a really nice fleece, but keep it separate from my animals in a sealed bag till I can wash it.

Anything else you can think of?

At what point can I start charging for my work? 

Oddly enough, I really love doing it. I'm hoping I can get another twenty sheep done by November. 
I have two friends who will want their spring lambs shorn in October or so, and that's about a dozen all together. So twenty more is feasible! Plus my three that are in the que. 

How long did it take you to get comfortable with shearing?

I still get nervous on my way to a new farm but it wears off quickly once I get started.

Kathryn


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## John Hill (May 12, 2002)

Kathryn, we used to drop our equipment, combs and cutters, into boiling water at the end of the day and would usually scrub the handpiece with hot water too. I dont recall that we ever gave much thought to disinfection as such.

We used to make our own mocassins out of sacking which we never cleaned in any way and besides it only took about 5 minutes to make another pair! We would have a new set for each farm we went to and we always wore clean newly washed clothes each day, heavy woolen cloth trousers, woolen socks and wool or cotton singlet. We would change our clothes before leaving the shed then stuff the work clothes into a sack and wash them when we got home.

I have a feeling that NZ may be relatively free of the diseases and conditions that you need to protect against.

I would think you could charge for your work from the time people begin to ask you to shear their sheep. They must surely know it is really hard work and must expect to pay something for your effort and skill especially if you are using your own expensive equipment. In NZ, at least in my time shearing, everyone was paid the same per sheep shorn and even the 'learner' could have a reasonable sum at the end of the week.

Yes, I got some satisfaction out of shearing too! There seems to be something most gratifying out of seeing a nice pink sheep standing beside a great pile of Border Leicster fleece! The busier the shed the better the experience if I recall correctly, the sound of a half dozen or more shears was quite something and if it was one of the older sheds with the sound of slapping belting in the rafters and an ancient coughing diesel engine, in one place a 12 ft water wheel, driving it all seemed to add to the atmosphere. Plus of course the constant barking of dogs bringing up more sheep.

I learned to shear on weekends and summer vacations from school and I always had experts right beside me so my equipment was always set right , my 'cathing pen' was always filled (makes it easier to catch the tip the sheep) and shed hands kept my space well swept and the fleece disappeared like magic within a moment of my last cut. It must be so much harder to learn in isolation. I probably first tried a few when I was about 12 or so and when I left home to join the military at 16 I could do 200 in eight hours but I have hardly shorn a sheep since.

I think if you can do clean tidy work without (much) blood and few second cuts you should have no aprehension about shearing anywhere.


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## barnlooms (May 31, 2006)

It's wonderful to hear about your experiences shearing. I am amazed that people can do it so well. 200 sheep a day seems mind boggling. 

It is hard work, and dirrrrrtttyyy, but I like that part. 

I truely enjoy sharing with someone else who can understand the pleasure derived from it.

My only connection from the past was when I was 16. I had saddle horses, and someone gave me a set of shears. It was winter, and I decided to shear the horse on it's chest and flanks so sweat would dry faster and be less of an issue during winter riding.

Once the shears touched the horse, I simply couldn't stop myself. I was mezmerized by the coat falling off, more like rolling off, and stopped only when the entire horse was shorn. He was big too - a 16 + thouroughbred cross. 
Needless to say, the joke among family and friends was to keep me away from the shears.

As I look back I wonder if that might have been a clue!

Funny, but I never even thought of boiling water to disinfect the equipment with. Simple - probably why I missed it.

The description of the shearing shed is very pleasant, especially the part about the belts driving the equipment and of course the dogs. Dogs are good.

Today I decided to tip one of my lambs according to the method you described. It took me a few trys but it did work like magic when I got it. 
We were on a hill and he was backing up, uphill, so that didn't work so well. 
I'm going to keep practicing daily on all my sheep and get it as smooth as I can. 
The sheep will be well fed going into winter as I'll have to bribe them to come anywhere near me!

Kathryn


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## John Hill (May 12, 2002)

You practice on your sheep and lambs with food rewards and they will in no time be sitting on their butts just by command!

At one time NZ had about 40 sheep for every person but what I never saw anyone calculate was how many sheep dogs! There must have been millions. 


Hehe, funny about the horse getting an all over! My younger brother got adventurous one day and 'sheared' our little sister! I can still remember the ructions!


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## barnlooms (May 31, 2006)

I'm buttering everybody up with treats, so they get used to the idea. I am going to send out two of my three cutters for sharpening.
This last batch of sheep had remarkably dry wool close to the skin, and I am pretty sure it took it's toll on my cutters.

When I cleaned my equipment after the last shearing, I was careful to put the comb and cutter on like Ross described. It made a difference the first time, so I'm hoping I can eek out my three sheep before the cutters go dull.

I have a Border Collie to help with the sheep, and two mutts who are farm dogs, and I enjoy them very much. 

The BC is a started dog, and I have no one to help me train her so it's , by the book. I read a few pages, and then practice what it said. 
It's good to a point but if I experience problems I don't know the solution so readily. 

I remember my son, now 32, shearing his sister as well. Must be a temptation kids can't resist!


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## John Hill (May 12, 2002)

Dang! That reminds me! One of the things to do before I die was to develop a simple hand sharpener for combs and cutters for homesteader and what we call 'lifestyle' farmers! 

It is probably not a good idea to use cutters too long in the dull condition as I imagine that causes heating and may destroy the temper of the blades, just a feeling really. I would normally only adjust the tension down about once in the life of a cutter and maybe screw it down a bit harder just to finish the last sheep before making a change. We used to grade our cutters according to thickness and put the thinnest one on first then the tips of each new cutter got to run on a 'new' piece of comb, it was not much and maybe didnt gain anything by everbody swore by it.

You are lucky to have a BC on your team as I understand they come from their mothers nipple fully programmed for sheep work! We had quite a number of BC on our family farm and if I recall correctly they got practically no training and just learned from the example of their work-mates. Some of course never learned and we had a special place for them, down behind the eucalyptus plantation. I went home on leave one year and my mother told me there was an execution to be done and would I save my father the trauma. So I put the gun and the dog in the truck and we set off to the place, on the way we had to cross the railroad tracks that run through that part of the farm where I found a couple of hundred newly weaned lambs had broken through the fence and were on the tracks. With only the 'useless' young dog I set to get them back behind wire. He ran this way, and he ran that way, he headed off the breakaways and did everything except repair the break in the fence and only a few minutes before the first train. Naturally enough I put him back in the truck and took him back to his kennel. Later, my brother told me the dog had eventually died of old age and that was the only useful thing he had ever done in his entire life on the farm.

I look forward to the day when we can see your YouTube video of your sheep doing the butt sit on command!


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## barnlooms (May 31, 2006)

Oh yes, a sharpener for us non-pros would be great!

Quite the story about the "useless" dog. Maybe that was his 15 minutes of fame, running the escapees back into their rightful place.

My dog is good, but I'm not experienced, and the sheep are not "dog" broke, so we tend to find ourselves in situations.

Since I need her for sheep work and dont' intend to trial her, I thought about just learning through trial and error, and I think we can survive that. It will just take us twice as long to get a job done.

Last night my youngest lamb started stumbling and falling down. 
He's seven weeks old and through process of elimination I suspect the menengial worm which migrates to the spinal column and brain causing neurological symptoms. 
I'm treating him for such, and he isn't worse, so I'm hoping he will recover.
He is a Finn/Corriedale cross with a really nice fleece and I was hoping to develop a line of that cross, both white and colored. It will be unfortunate if I lose him.

My danged cutters haven't more than say four hours each on them. I'm not sure if they are dull or not, but was going to send them out for sharpening to rule it out.
I know the last time I used any of them they acted like they were dull, but I'm still not certain about why I use the tension, and what effect it has on my cutting surface.

I'm no motor head. <grin>

Basically I only adjust the tension after the shearing is done and I dismantle the comb/cutters for cleaning. Then I reset them and the tension. I know that the tension will keep the cutters in place. I tension until I get no side-to-side wobble of the cutters.

I'm interested in the felt booties you described. Is there any place I could find directions for them?

Kathryn


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## John Hill (May 12, 2002)

Kathryn, I think four hours is really a long time for cutters to run continuously and I doubt we used ours for more than about 30 minutes if for no other reason than that gave a good excuse to stop and straighten one's back! Of course sharpening them was only a moment on the emery wheel. I get the impression that the same sharpening system is not common in the US where if I understand correctly the usual method is to use abrasive grit on an aluminium wheel whereas we used carborundum paper glued to a spinning steel disc.

Regarding tensions, yes, just use enough tension to stop the cutter coming loose then tighten until you get a good cut. When the cutter and/or comb begin to dull you will notice a difference in the shorn sheep. Instead of a nice smooth stubble you will see a sort of mackeral patterned wavey surface, it really is quite obvious when you get to know what it looks like. When that happens just increase the tension a little and change the cutter when you finish that sheep. 

We used to make our booties ("mocs") from two thicknesses of sacking. They were really simple just a piece about 14" by 10", we folded it once along the 10" inch side and sewed the edges with a sack needle, then we put a foot on to it with a heel in the corner of the pocket that has just been made. For the front we just used the sack needle and string to make a sort of draw string and put a few stitches to hold it on. Most times we had to cut them off and resew when we started work again! I am sure there will be information online somewhere though I have not yet found any.


I hope your lamb recovers.

John


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## barnlooms (May 31, 2006)

Hi John, 

I think that four hours is long on the cutters too. Since I was made aware of shearing "air" I make an effort to avoid that, but I'd love to reduce the time it takes to get that fleece off, for alot of reasons.
Practice I guess!

The lamb is better thankfully. He may have had a Selenium defeciency since one dose seemed to cure him.

Our soil here in NY is notoriously deficeient, so it's common. Being a new shepherdess, I didn't realize he wasn't getting his fair share.
The other sheep show no effects so I imagine they are getting theirs from the mineral block in the pasture.

Did you also do hooves and meds when you sheared? 

I've had some experiences with sheep lately. Yesterday I uncaked a long tail matted with manure, only to find an open wound with the skin sloughing off in two places.

If it had been my sheep I'd have done a round of antibiotics, but the owner declined. We'll see how the ewe makes out.

Another sheep I did, hadn't been shorn in 3 years and the belly wool was so saturated with urine that the skin was raw. 

Hooves are something all together. I've seen hooves that look like elf shoes or worse!

Seems people underestimate the care involved.

I can understand having a hard time getting a shearer, but I'd think someone would attempt to do it themselves eventually. 

Are you familiar with bragging? I've only heard mention of it, never actually seen it. As far as I know we don't do it here, but then we don't raise many sheep as a country either.

After your story of learning to shear from the age of 12 I thought briefly about getting my 13 year old into it, then hastily decided not - with the rate of cuts I'm getting, I couldn't in good conscience give him clippers at least not for awhile.

I'm off to check on the sheep. This morning ti looks like one of them tried an escape and was thwarted, but they all denied any knowledge!


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## John Hill (May 12, 2002)

Good to hear that lamb is bouncing back!

No, I never did anything except shear the sheep, everything else would have been done at some other time and as the object of the exercise was to harvest the fleece most farmers ensured there were no excessively dirty sheep being shorn.

I suppose there are people in NZ who provide a wider sheep care service including shearing, hooves drench etc but it is not something I have ever been involved in.

No, I dont know what you mean by 'bragging' in relation to sheep and I have not been able to find an explanation on-line, is it the same as 'mulseing'? I think there are some places in NZ that do it but not many.

Yes, they do have a rather strong code of silence dont they!


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## barnlooms (May 31, 2006)

Hi John,

sorry for the confusing, yes I MEANT mulseing but SAID bragging - it's a girl thing. Ha ha

Here there is alot of outrage at the process, people who don't know what they are talking about getting on the animal rights bandwagon. It's typical that only one side of the story is shown, so I am curious as to the truth of the matter.

Bragging is a way of keeping ewes from breeding / being bred by putting a cover over their hind ends.
Its' very difficult to find info online about it. I learned of it when my ewes with their tails docked too short had terrible problems with biting flies this past spring.
I did not dock their tails, if I had I would have left enough to cover the sensitive area, but they were suffering. When I mentioned it to a shepherdess friend of mine, she brought up the practice of bragging and thought maybe it would serve to protect the ewes from the flies.

Yesterday I was given a pair of hand shears. Im very excited and want to use them put they need sharpening first.

I'd like to be proficient in both types of shearing.

Have you used hand shears?


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## Ronney (Nov 26, 2004)

I've enjoyed reading much of this. As John knows, I don't shear but have rousied in big sheds and still keep sheep that need to be shorn. A good fast shearer is a pleasure to watch - his gear will be in tip-top order and the sheep will come off the shears without a mark on them. My shearer is a little man in his early 60's and can still take the wool off my 30 ewes in less than an hour under less than ideal conditions i.e. he often has to wait for me to fill the catching pen The only sheep that come out with nicks are old ewes with cotty wool - and they can be hard going both to shear and on the gear as you will know John. Stick with it Kathryn, you might not ever make a gun shearer but practice makes perfect.

John, there are some stations in the South Island that mulsel but not many. A very controversial subject in some quarters.

Cheers,
Ronnie


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## barnlooms (May 31, 2006)

Hi Ronnie,

Thanks for the encouragement. 

I too appreciate a job well done, especially with shearing. 

I like the sense of being able to pretty much leave it up to the shearer, and ending up with animals that must feel more comfortable and wonderful, gorgeous fleece to play with. 

I hope to be able to provide that same sense of satisfaction to the people who ask me to do their shearing, and of course part of my motivation is being able to take home some really neat fleeces!

I think I'm a fiber addict of the worst kind - I've gone from just buying wool, to buying raw fleeces, to having my own fiber "on the hoof" , to wanting to remove and experience that fiber as it peels off the sheep!

There are worse addictions, I keep telling myself!

Someone once told me the lanolin gets in the blood, and I think they were right.
Kathryn


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## John Hill (May 12, 2002)

Hi Ronnie, I have never encountered mulseing and I must say I am not very sympathetic to the practice my view being that if it is necessary in your area you do not live in an area suitable for running sheep!

BTW, have you seen the recent reports of a NZ sheep breed being developed that has no wool except the main fleece areas and a naturally stub tail?

No Kathryn I have never used hand sheers except for a bit of 'dagging' of course to cut the sacking for my moccasins! I expect it is a quite different skill and very hard work for the hand muscles!


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## Ronney (Nov 26, 2004)

Hi John,
I've never encountered mulseing either as Merino don't do well in the north but I keep an open mind about it. After seeing flystrike both on stations and in my own sheep, it would be hard to know which is the lesser of two evils. And to that end I suppose, there are not many places in NZ, or perhaps anywhere, that are suited to sheep - it is too wet, too humid, too cold, too hot giving rise to flystrike, foot problems, parasites such as liver fluke and barbers pole, mineral deficiencies etc. There are those that would disagree with mulsing, equally there are as many that would disagree with the chemicals used as preventatives as well so I guess nobody is ever going to win.

No, haven't seen reports on this sheep - has it been in the rural papers (Countrywide, Straight Furrow)? Interesting and I could see huge potential for a sheep of this type, not only from the wool perspective but the actual care of the sheep. A ewe with no belly wool and little leg wool would be a sheep of my dreams. I want to belly and crutch my ewes before lambing but I don't have a hope in hell because it won't stop raining and the ground is sodden so they never dry out.

Kathryn, people either hate sheep or love them... I went from keeping some for meat, to keeping them for both wool and meat, to learning to spin. I would have loved to have learnt to shear but nobody ever had the time to show me and now I doubt that I could stay bent in half that long (years using a chainsaw in forestry have caught up with me) but I have a shearing plant and handpiece and want to get my act together enough to be able to at least crutch. 

Cheers,
Ronnie


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## John Hill (May 12, 2002)

Ronney, I am trying to remember the name of the scientist and his new clean sheep breed. I saw it on Country Calendar and if I recall correctly he works out of Lincoln University, he has an almost household name but for the life of me I cant remember it!


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## barnlooms (May 31, 2006)

What's the school of thought on shearing pregnant ewes? 

I've heard that you shouldn't, though I don't know how one would assure the dung tags are gone if lambing in the spring. Its supposed to cause undue stress, yet I also know that people have their ewes shorn prior to lambing. 

Is anything done differently with a bred ewe?

Kathryn


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## John Hill (May 12, 2002)

I expect the dags (dung tags) should be removed. We call the process 'crutching' where the entire flock is shorn around the rear end to provent the formation of dags. No matter what time of year a sheep carrying dags should be cleaned up.

Some of the reasons I have heard for pre-lamb shearing include removing the heavy fleece protects the sheep against getting "cast" (i.e. rolling on her back and unable to get up) during lambing and also ensures the ewe will seek shelter during bad weather rather than lie out in the snow with her newborns freezing to death beside her. Being shorn may also stimulate her to eat more which might enhance milk production.


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## Ngagchu (Sep 8, 2008)

Hi Everyone,

I've read every post in this thread three times now ... twice before I ever tried shearing my sheep, and now once again after having sheared the first 16 (of 40) over the course of, uh, several days  ...

My local gun-shearer taught several of us non-shearers how to shear our sheep standing, last year. He still had us tip the sheep for the belly, though. So if the idea was to avoid having to tip the sheep, I don't get it. (Might have been nice, though; at least half of mine are 200+ pound monsters, and flighty rescue sheep at that!)

So, I tried memorizing the traditional shearing pattern. Not too tough, except all the balance and foot position things that make it work. On the first sheep I tried to do all the way traditional, the only really big problem was at the end, when you try not to let the sheep's head drop to the floor, but I did and then she ran away ... 

Since then I have been doing a comprimise method, where first I tip the sheep, do the belly and crutch and the first leg but not the undercut. Then I go up and do the head and neck, including all around the back of the neck down past where a halter would go. Then up comes the sheep; I then halter it and tie it to the fence and do the top half.

This December I'll return to trying to learn the traditional pattern, when shearing class is held at the U of Wisconsin Sheep Station in Arlington. Until then I'll probably stick with the down-then-up method (which, by the way, seems to work much better than up-then-down, for some reason).

So anyway back to the question ... I notice that I'm getting a lot of gunk in the comb, especially on the underside, but most importantly between the teeth. Looks like a mix of lanolin and short bits of wool. If it hardens, like if I take a break and the shear cools down, the stuff is like cement and very hard to remove. And the shear just won't cut right with that stuff in there. 

When I remove a cutter, I see that same sort of gunk in the underside of each of the points, too.

I know it's not just tension adjustment, because the shear can be going really great but then after a break and cooling, going is slow to impossible. I can struggle with the tension and maybe get going a little, but basically it seems pointless to continue at that point.

What am I doing wrong, then? Is there something about my technique that encourages this buildup, like those times when I'm not quite on the skin and I'm cutting a half inch out? Or am I not brushing out the comb/cutter enough? Which, by the way, does not seem to work out that well with my little soldering wire-brush (looks like a really evil toothbrush). What do you pros use?

Will boiling the comb and cutters at the end of the day help?

Anyway, gotta go rest up because the last 24 are waiting ... Thanks for any sage words of guidance!


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## John Hill (May 12, 2002)

HI Ngagchu, I think you can safely dunk the front of the handpiece into really hot water before using your brush, maybe you have to do it after each sheep.

I would not use a wire brush as that might dull the cutting edges but you certainly need a very stiff bristled scrub brush.


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## Ross (May 9, 2002)

You can scrape the bottom of the comb with your screwdriver too, and I keep some diesel handy to soften the crud and make it easier. If you dunk it in anything remember to relube the set with whatever light oil you're using. The crud under the cutter only really cleans when you drop it to change cutters.


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## Ngagchu (Sep 8, 2008)

Thanks John and Ross! What a quick response  !! Gotta love those international time-zones.

I'll try the hot water trick if I can figure out how to do that out at the barn ... maybe a thermos or something. Just not my coffee. And I'll go looking for a brush with stiff plastic bristles. I'm planning on shearing a few more around lunchtime today.

And thanks to the boiling water trick I read about here, I'll be going out to the barn with really shiney combs (WD-40'ed right out of the water).


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## John Hill (May 12, 2002)

Maybe the new motorised handpieces do not run as hot as the old rigid drive systems and that contributes to the gunking up problem. If I recall correctly the combs and cutters were quite hot to the touch.


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## Ngagchu (Sep 8, 2008)

I'm using a pretty old electric Shearmaster with a 310(A?) head, and it only gets hot if I cut a lot of air  ... If I can avoid that it does not get too hot to touch, though when it's at its warmest it does seem to make the sheep flinch a bit.

I took a thermos of hot water out to the barn yesterday and tried pouring some in a pan for a dip after each sheep. Then brush. Cleaned up the gunk!

Next question  ... on YouTube, there is a set of videos entitled 'sheep shearing 01' and 'sheep shearing 02' ... on the first the teacher shows all the manipulations of the sheep, and on the second he actually shears. I was not sure, but is he showing the 'tally-hi' pattern? I noticed he has the sheep's inside front foot in his outside hip to start, then tucks that foot behind his leg after doing all or most of the belly. For a beginner like me, using narrow gear, would you recommend using the pattern shown instead of the post-1984 wide-gear pattern, or would it be better to learn the current pattern? Any recommendations gratefully appreciated!


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## John Hill (May 12, 2002)

Hi Ngagchu

This is how I would do it, sorry it has been quite a while but I think I remember the basic sequence!

For starting I would have the sheep sitting on her butt leaning back and supported by my knees and upper legs, her head would be to my left.

Starting from the brisket I would shear the entire belly, all around the crutch, inside both back legs and I would try to shear up from the tail, just a couple of 'blows' while the sheep is in her original position I would also do the outside of the left hind leg then. It is around about then that the Border Leicesters try to eat my t-shirt! Hopefuly at that point the rouseabout (helper) would sweep all around then I would step forward and put my right toe under her right rear but if she is a struggling I might at that time step over the right rear leg instead but usually not. Fighting sheep gets very tiring and I find putting the least pressure on them is best and I know that touching the legs more than necessary is inviting a kicking frenzy.

When I step forward I would lift her head and shoulders somewhat then gently but firmly stretch her neck across my left thigh then do that really scarey blow from the brisket up to her chin or up to a cheek if she is wooly faced. 

With the sheep in the same upright(ish) position I would shear both cheeks (if necessary ) then the left front leg at that point I would let her sort of slide down off my leg until she is just about lying on the floor on her right hand side. A few short ones then the long blows from the tail end right up the spine to the top of her head, one or two blows over the backbone then lift her up and do the final side starting from the right hand jaw.

Thats the pattern I would use, it is actually a bit more complicated than that when using fixed overhead powered equipment as you have to turn the sheep around a little to keep the right relationship with the drive machinery and also to avoid having to move the fleece once it falls on the floor. I would really have to do it to describe those details!

I am afraid I never learned any of the alternative patterns and I have no idea what changes have happened since 1984! I am sure there is nothing wrong with taking the style you feel most comfortable with and defining your own pattern!

John


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## Ngagchu (Sep 8, 2008)

Just came in from the barn. Four more sheep shorn; 21 down 19 to go. It feels good to have half of them done!

Instead of just doing the belly when the sheep was down, I tried the full pattern. I'm convinced that will be better in the long run for both me and the sheep. It went pretty well, but the first one got a nasty neck cut, and the second a goodly cut on the side. Both had very heavy (13 months) wool and lots of wrinkles.

For sheep #3, I kept the bottom tooth on the skin for most of the blows, with the top tooth up just above where I could see the skin pulling up from the weight of the wool. For this particular sheep, that was something like half an inch! But he got no cuts at all, and the ridges from leaving to top tooth up were more like 3/16 inch after the wool was off.

I still have a lot to learn about where to put my feet, when. More times than I'd like to advertise I handed the shear to my wife so I could rearrange myself and the sheep! And at this point, the cutter is dull after about, oh, four sheep. The first comb was dull after the first 17 sheep. Hopefully the second comb, and the remaining 10 cutters, will be enough to get through those last 19 sheep!

Well, that's my story. I'm going back to study the pattern further. And watch some more shearing videos, and try to put John's advice into practice! Tomorrow the weather is not as warm, so I hope to shear a few more than today.

Cheers, Ngagchu

A phone call from my 5-year old came in right when I got to the first neck blow (that scary one) of sheep #4. By the time the call was over, the sheep was pretty impatient, and soon escaped. So, I haltered him to the fence and finished him on his feet. No cuts.


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## John Hill (May 12, 2002)

Ngagchu, the closer you can get to the floor the less weight of wool pulling on the skin and inviting nasty cuts! 

Cutter lasted four sheep? I guess thats not too bad if you are not shearing fast, I tend to accept that they last a maximum period of time when actually cutting and quite a bit less when cutting air.

Sounds like great progress!


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## barnlooms (May 31, 2006)

So, 
it's been awhile since I last posted on the board. 
I'm up to having shorn 63 sheep so far. I did take the Cornell sheep shearing class which was a big help in my understanding my equipment and the reasons for shearing the traditional pattern. 
I was happy to have someone right by my side to say...no, no -it's better if you hold the sheep this way, move the skin that way etc.

I am at last comforatable with shearing but it still takes me a bit of time ( about 15 minutes ) per sheep and I get second cuts still.

My problem now is that my Oster Shearmaster clippers are frequently quitting on me in the middle of a sheep.

At first it was loose wires in the cord ( hubby has fixed them twice now ) and today it was a loose wire in the bushing.

It's incredibly frustrating to endure this, and I"m thinking I want to check out professional equipment but I don't know brands or what to Google.
I like the articulated shears with a separate motor and wonder if anyone here knows where they are sold? Any links to sites?

Thanks,
Kathryn
Fossil Creek Farm
NY


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## Ross (May 9, 2002)

http://www.wool.ca Canadian prices so you should get a discounted price with your USD. I challenge you not to do better with a seperate handpiece driven by a motor....... any brand. I use a Sunbeam flex cable crankety old thing, and it wipes my nearly new Heniger motor in the handpiece clipper off the floor.


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## barnlooms (May 31, 2006)

Thanks for the link. 
I'm not locked into the separate motor/handpiece, just want something that is more reliable than I find the Shearmaster to be. 

Kathryn


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## PNP Katahdins (Oct 28, 2008)

Kathryn, you might want to talk to Jay Ward at Light Livestock Equipment in Jay, NY (far NE corner of the state). His website is http://www.lightlivestockequipment.com/ and he sells a lot of sheep and alpaca shearing equipment.

Peg


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## Ngagchu (Sep 8, 2008)

I wondered what became of you, Kathryn! Your story has been an inspiration and a motivation for me to learn, too ;-) ...

I am up to 32 sheep. Last Monday I got ready to start in on the last 8 for this flock, and as I went to close the barn door behind them, a bad thing happened. The wind caught a big ol' steel and plywood gate and slammed it into the barn, with me in between. Most of me fell into a 5.5 inch space beside a beam, but my right shoulder got crunched between that beam and the swinging gate. One separated shoulder later, I might be done for the season. Six inches to the left, my head would have been where my shoulder was, though, and then I would have been done, period.

But that's not why I write today   ... 

I'm happy to report that the last three sheep (pre-crunch) went swimmingly. I watched David Kier on video for the 100th or so time, and I noticed a couple of subtle bits of footwork that I'd missed before. Made it so much easier! One of these three sheep was this old Romanov wether who is totally terrified of people, and I'd been dreading him the whole flock. But I got almost the whole pattern run on him before I (oops) let him slide down too far on the last side. So of course he decided to get up and run away. Before he got away, I haltered him and tied him to the fence and finished those last couple of blows.

It's amazing how big a difference it makes having your weight on the correct foot and the sheep on the correct hip, etc.

I am very eager to get those last 8 shorn, as soon as I recover enough to lift the Shearmaster ;-) ... might be next season. Perhaps the next sheep I shear will be when I take the class from the University of Wisconsin in Arlington this December.

Cheers, Ngagchu


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## barnlooms (May 31, 2006)

Hello all, and thank you for info regarding suppliers of shears. I will check them all out. So far for the time being the Shearmasters are working but I'd really like a back up set. It's very frustrating to lose the shears in the middle of a job.

Ngagchu - sorry to hear about your unfortunate accident. I wish you a speedy recovery.

I'm up to about 70 sheep with this weekend bringing the total to 75. 

I'm having a hard time with the foot work that you mention, though it's coming. 
I find if I have a sheep that really fights me, I get thrown off a bit, and want to start deviating from the traditional pattern just to get the job done. 

The big sheep are the ones that give me a run for my money especially if I have to fight them to get them tipped and then hold onto them. 
I'm still not so good at really securely holding them with my legs though I'm getting better. 

Some days go really well and I think I'm on my way to becoming a half way decent shearer and other days I think I ought to hang up the shears alltogether. 

I'm capable of doing three before I give out which is really pitiful and I long for the day when I can do a flock of 30 or more and do it well in a reasonable period of time.
My goal is to have sheared 1, 000 sheep by the time I'm 60 in six years. 

Only 925 to go!!!!


Kathryn
Fossil Creek Farm
NY


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## barnlooms (May 31, 2006)

I too have that going on after a few minutes shearing and I've come to accept it as standard operating procedure.

I also find that my cutters last about three sheep with the combs lasting between 10 and 12 sheep. Sometimes that is variable depending on what I encounter in the wool i.e. lots of serious veggie matter that dulls the cutters.

When I'm done for the day, I boil water and pour it over the cutters/ comb and disolve the ****. This works well to remove it quickly and cleanly.

Kathryn
Fossil Creek Farm
NY


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## John Hill (May 12, 2002)

:goodjob::goodjob::goodjob: Looks like great progress being made around here!

Regarding fighting and struggling sheep I feel they struggle less if you can avoid holding on to a leg and by touching their head as little as possible. They will naturally struggle less as you get more skilled and dont keep them sitting around so long.


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## barnlooms (May 31, 2006)

Hello John!

I suspect that I might be holding the sheep too upright when I set them on their butts. They don't seem to ever settle the way I've seen them do - just stop struggling and lean over.

The only thing I can think of is that they don't feel very secure in their position, so I have tried leaning them back a bit more. So far so good, but I don't rely on that cause it could just be the last few sheep I've done had a better attitude. I'll have to wait and see how the next 20 or so sheep do before I can say the difference was my leaning them back a bit more.

It's possible that I was unconciously trying to alleviate the stress on my back by keeping them more upright. I do find myself trying to get more comfortable during the shearing.

Today I did two Baby Doll Southdowns.... I had never seen them before let alone sheared any. The ram had a head and face like a teddy bear. Quite funny looking to be sure. 
Wool on every surface, and plenty of it. Not a breed I'd choose. Lots of wasted wool from legs, underbelly, face etc. Still, some people love them.

Two big fat ewes to do tomorrow. The exact opposite of todays' 24" tall sheep. 

Kathryn
Fossil Creek Farm
NY


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## John Hill (May 12, 2002)

Kathryn, if I recall correctly some sheep do seem to go all tense and try to sit bolt upright when you put them on their butt. The way to relieve this is to use your knees to lean her body to one side or the other, usually to the right when you are starting to shear her. Leaning them back a little is good too and of course you cannot do around the tail end if they are sitting on it!

On the other hand, if they sit upright there are less wrinkles on their belly to take account of!


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## Ngagchu (Sep 8, 2008)

Hi Kathryn, in my very limited experience with that first part of the shearing, there seems to be a sweet spot in how upright you put the sheep when you do the belly. Too high up, their back legs hit the floor, and then they try to get up and run away. Too far down, they're okay but it's harder on the shearer because you're trying to buttress their weight with your own (I'm not that big; many of my sheep outweight me by 100 pounds). Also, if they are too far back, it's really hard to reach over their belly to get their tail area!

I'm not quite tall enough to tuck the sheep's inside front leg behind my inside leg at the start, and I noticed an experienced but not all that tall shearer leaving the leg untucked also. So for all but the smallest sheep, I'm not doing that, and that helps keep the sheep more upright. So far this has not led to a struggle (on its own, anyway), and most of the sheep (even that gnarly Romanov boy) are relaxing fairly quickly.

I think sheep must have an instinct to not struggle if they find themselves tipped over and don't think they can get back up. If they really can't get up, struggling would lead to exhaustion and death. I think they also have an instinct to nudge a tipped flockmate to help them get back up. So, if the sheep finds itself tipped over, something clicks and they relax. But the moment you give them anything that might give them the leverage to get upright, like their leg touches you, or the fence or the pen wall, something tells them they might be able to right themselves, and then they struggle. So keep them hopeless and they won't struggle, even the big bruisers! Maybe a sheep psychologist can explain this better  ... Also along these lines, if I have scared sheep in the pen with me, they all hang out in the corner while I shear their buddy. But if there is a tame sheep in there with me, invariably they will come over to the board and nose around. I think they're deciding if they should nudge their buddy back upright! Pretty funny, the little tiny Shetland trying to help the gigantic Rambouillet get up, like the big sheep wasn't enough trouble to shear as it is.

Anyway, now I'm inspired, 1000 sheep by the time I'm 60! You're on! I have only a couple of more years to go than you, but you started shearing sooner. Hope to be on the shearing board again soon!


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## barnlooms (May 31, 2006)

Hi all,

Yesterdays shearing went much more smoothly and of course I'm starting to feel smart with myself. Today I will shear a few of mine and we'll see how that unfolds, but I am definately feeling more confidant.

I have noticed that sometimes the sheeps back legs are off the floor, sticking out a bit in the air, and other times not so much, so I'm of the opinion that the "off the floor" scenario is probably the better. Less inclination for that up and gone opportunity.

I too have a heck of a time tucking that inside leg, and have noticed some professional shearers eliminate that altogether. I have decided to play it by ear and eliminate it myself, just making sure I can't be nailed by a leg flying around, and so far I'm doing well with it. Much less strain.

I'm still working on getting the footwork but its coming. I will be sad when shearing time is over since it seems that one just starts to warm up and then your'e done for another year. 
So far I calculated I've done about 50 odd sheep since March which isn't too bad, but I can't seem to do more than three before I tucker out. How long before I can do ten or more? What's the key to building up that endurance?

Do you get rusty in between seasons? 

And, Ngagchu, your'e on with the 1,000 sheep challenge!!!!! I welcome a competitor. 
At shearing school I met a young ( 28 or so ) girl who shears about 900 A YEAR and that's where I got the 1,000 figure from. I modified it to take into consideration my "old bat" status and make it more realistic....he he.


Kathryn


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## Ngagchu (Sep 8, 2008)

It was slow getting back on the board after the shoulder separation (I did wait 10 days before trying), but now I've shorn all 40 of mine and I can really take a recovery break! Probably until December when I take the U of Wisconsin shearing course. Now it's time to send the combs and cutters in for a fresh edge.

So here's what it took:

40 sheep, mostly 180-200 pounders, a few 60-pounders and one 250 pounder named Angelo 
Two combs; this beginner used Pacers, 13-tooth 80-mm 'farmer' combs
16 cutters; brand-new Marathon AAA's
One 49-year-old 130-pounder with a Shearmaster 

I did not have the combs and cutters sharpened before using them; all were factory-new. Some of the cutters were dull from the get-go, leaving interesting stripes all over the sheep. Others lasted for 45 minutes of shearing before becoming noticeably dull. At the end I was changing cutters every third sheep regardless. The first comb went back in the box after 24 sheep; the second was good to the end.

The second-cut rate got better, as did the sheep-cut rate. The poor old sheep that was my first got six cuts; another got three, one got a sheath cut (ouch), and a few got a nasty on the neck or groin. No teat cuts, and nothing needing stitches; the worst I did was about a 1.5-incher. Oh, and I cut myself about four times. The cutter flew off twice , once through the fence into the manure, and once straight into my wrist :-( 

After the first few sheep I set about to learn the 'pattern, and that's how I'll go from now on. Easier on the sheep, and on me. The exception was a few that were quite overweight ... these ones had trouble breathing on their backs, so they got haltered and tied after I finished their bellies.

Thanks again for all the sage advice I picked up from this thread! Kathryn, keep us posted on your tally as we work towards our 1000-by-60


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## barnlooms (May 31, 2006)

Hi All,

Yesterday, I did six sheep and didn't really have the usually fatigue which was nice and made me feel like my endurance is growing. Truth is, I didn't have to catch or wrangle any sheep. Catchers did that and tipped them too. Only reason I stopped at six was because the sheep were wet and I didn't think it wise to keep fighting the wet wool.

Nice thing was that I got to do a few different breeds - Suffolk, Hampshire, Tunis crosses, Romanov cross and Cheviot...I WAS thinking of getting a few Cheviot for the Border Collie but nix that idea! Too flightly for me.

I did have an incident where a flying hoof hit my shearing hand which drove the shears into my face. This sounds much worse than it really was, but has given me pause to consider safety glasses and perhaps a mouth guard for future shearing sessions.

I have some lacerations to my nose and mouth, but not bad really, and it makes for a great story but the thought that I could have missing front teeth about now, or have landed a comb tooth in an eye doesn't thrill me. 

So the tally is now 81 sheep and counting. I'm still scheduling people into the third week of June. 

I too am getting better - definately no cutting these days, quicker, smoother, but still second cuts. Yesterdays long blows from tail to head, were excellent I thought and I've found the bigger sheep are actually easier if they are still.

I'm going through a comb about every 12 sheep and cutters about every three. 
Next I'd like to get proficient with the hand blades - just cause. 

Glad to hear you recovered from your should injury Ngagchu. Sounds like you got the shearing down by the end of it all. Good work! Great attitude.

Kathryn


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## John Hill (May 12, 2002)

Great progress everyone!:goodjob::goodjob::goodjob:


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## barnlooms (May 31, 2006)

I had an interesting experience yesterday. Went to shear two Finnsheep rams, usually pretty easy.
I got the first tipped on his butt but he repeatedly got away from me despite my best efforts to hold him with my legs. I got the belly wool off, and usually find this to be the easiest part since I've done it so many times.
I tried the hand blades but went back to the electrics simply because I cannot improve if I default from the technique and pattern. Eventually I did get him sheared but by the end of it I was whipped from repeatedly catching, wrestling and tipping him.

The second ram I did exclusively with the hand blades and had an excellent time of it. I started at his rump and worked my way forward taking the whole fleece in one piece. Fewer second cuts, less adjada with the sheep and about the same time to get the job done.
I'd really love to learn the technique for hand blades as well. 
I love the electric and will still continue to perfect that but there is room in my heart for hand blades too.

Kathryn


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## Ngagchu (Sep 8, 2008)

A few weeks ago someone noticed that my sheep were shorn, and asked who I had do the work. Proudly I admitted to the deed . Then last week the same fellow approached me to see if I would shear his sheep. My first client? Seems the USDA cited the guy for his sheep not being able to walk properly because it needed to be shorn, which of course the guy disputed. But they still told him he had to get the sheep shorn.

Today I went over to shear. He put the sheep in the night before and withheld feed, so we were good to go. The flock was about 11 sheep, but half of them were Barbados so they did not need to be shorn, of course. First up was the ram, a Barbados-Jacob cross. He had started to shed and there was nothing to shear on the underside! So just a saddle shear, with the owner holding the sheep.

But then came #2, a Jacob ewe with two horns. What a mess. The front half was already clipped by hand over the course of several weeks, but the rear half was untouched. This was the most gnarly, matted sheep I've ever seen, and I'm sure this is the one the USDA was complaining about. I decided to shear the whole sheep including what was done before.

Then here's the fun part. I *could not* get the comb to enter the belly no matter what! The whole belly was a four-inch mat going all the way to the skin. Her butt was a poopy disaster. I finally gave up and put her on her feet to work on her sides. Here I had better luck, though when I got partway down the sides the mat was so heavy it pulled her skin out about 1.5 inches. Basically to avoid cutting her, I was shearing the mat instead of the sheep ... finally I got all but her neck and belly, which the owner promised to work on later.

After that 90-minute disaster, sheep three was a fluffy yearling Shetland. Piece o' cake, five minutes and she's done. Good for the confidence . Then, sheep two came back, and I finally got the neck and belly clear! She looked like a totally different sheep. And the ram took one look, and, well, you know. So he got the boot.

Sheep four, a mass of mats and burrs. But I got her done nicely, though the burrs slowed it down to a 15 minute shearing. She was not the solid mat sheep two was! Our final sheep was number five, a four-horned Shetland-Jacob cross. Very feisty, and nearly got away six times. She was so squirrely that we finally set her on her feet to finish the second side.

These five sheep cost me three cutters that were well dulled by the end. I think it was the two matty sheep that each did in one cutter, and the third cutter could probably be used again. 

So that puts me up to 45 this year... it's getting easier, at least when condition of the sheep is right!


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## John Hill (May 12, 2002)

Ngagchu, those sound like a tough job! 

I think really badly matted sheep like that are easier to shear if you can get them hot first, jam them tight together in a pen for a while so they have a good sweat on but not so hot it causes heat stress.


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## Ngagchu (Sep 8, 2008)

On the sheep, that is. This year there were two sheep in particular that seemed to be in trouble. When I finished shearing them, they did not get back up right away. In the case of one of them, I concluded that her belly was not empty enough, and I should have stood her up to finish.

Now, two months later, both these two seem to have a wool break ... which I think confirms that there was a problem going on. Am I just lucky not to have killed these sheep back when I sheared them? Besides the grunting breath (the sheep, not me), what signs could I use, on the board, to tell that I'd best take it easy on this particular sheep?


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## John Hill (May 12, 2002)

Ngagchu, I think the practice in NZ is to fast the sheep for a day before shearing though I cant say that is an intended practice or just a consequence of the way they are mustered (i.e. rounded up) and penned often (usually?) the day before shearing.

I am sure sheep are not designed to be upside down for long and I have been told that the weight of their internal organs puts a strain on the breathing etc.

Sheep, especially full fleeced sheep, can get accidently stranded on their back out on the pasture and if not found in time are doomed yet they do seem to survive a lot longer than it would take anyone to shear them.

I would think breathing would be the best indicator of stress and letting her stand for a while before resuming shearing would be a reasonable thing to do.


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## Ngagchu (Sep 8, 2008)

A lady approached me today to ask if I'd go crutch her long-tailed sheep. It's July in Wisconsin, and she's worried about fly strike. Now who knows if flystrike is even an issue in the upper USA midwest? Just as a data point, I've got about 40 sheep here, and the only maggots I've ever seen on them were once on a sheep with a nasty cancerous tumor, and once on a sheep with a surgical incision (on her throat). Both times the maggots vanished with one or two applications of screw-worm spray from Fleet-Farm 

Not that I couldn't use the work, but I want to know if I should feel guilty about it  ...


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## Ngagchu (Sep 8, 2008)

From what I heard from many sources, the only times people in Wisconsin have to worry about flystrike are when a sheep has an open wound, or when a sheep is scouring (and has long wool). So, I tried to talk the client out of it, but in the end I crutched four of her sheep. These four were all longwools and all had really long undocked tails (one was pretty much all the way to the ground!).

All four of the sheep had a lot of burdock on them, especially around the face. So we did a little cleanup there, too. I know the sheep appreciate that one, and I know the shearer (probably me!) will be happier about less of a burden there, come spring.

Katherine, I'm up to 49 since one of today's sheep I sheared all the way ... my next shearing will probably be when I take a class in December; will any/all that I might shear there count for my 1000-by-60??

Cheers, Ngagchu


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## barnlooms (May 31, 2006)

Its been some time since I posted but I thought I'd come to the board with a question for you experienced shearers. 

I've done about 125 sheep in the last 12 months or so and I'm feeling comforatable with my equipment and technique.
It's taking about 12 - 15 minutes to shear a sheep from start to finish but occasionally I run into a sheep with a fleece that I cannot cut through for nothing. The clipper drags and leaves alot of wool on the hide.
This happened most recently when I was asked to shear a flock of Shetlands. 

I tried changing cutters and combs, and double checked my tension. Nothing made it better. 

Any suggestions?

This is beyond frustrating because I am unable to do a quick, clean job.

Kathryn
Fossil Creek Farm
Central NY


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## Ross (May 9, 2002)

Dry wool, you can try bunching them up so they get warm. Be sure they're well hydrated and have had salt. You can get a dunk can of oil mix. I never really note what I put in because I never have the same thing twice. Essentially motor oil thinned with diesel or paint thinner. Dunk the clipper head (not the sheep )  shear dunk, shea,r dunk, shear. its not as messy as you'd think but the wool is pretty awful after.


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## barnlooms (May 31, 2006)

Well, I would be inclined to try that, but these fleeces are for hand spinners who are pretty particular about their fiber. Oil throughout won't do. 

Any other suggestions?

I did them on a nice warm day about 70 degrees. Not sure about water and salt prior.
They were Shetlands, and I hear they can be difficult with their dual coat.

Thanks for the input,

Kathryn


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## Ross (May 9, 2002)

Linseed oil? Never tried it but it should scour well.


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## John Hill (May 12, 2002)

I wonder if plain water with a little dish wash liquid would do the trick?


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## bruce2288 (Jul 10, 2009)

Do these sheep have wool break. This usually caused by a fever, I have seen it bad after weaning. It makes the wool almost impossible to push a comb and cutter through. If this is the case a couple of weeks of growth will make shearing easier, as you will be able to get under the wool break.


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## barnlooms (May 31, 2006)

Thanks everyone. 

I didn't notice any woolbreak, but I'll try all the suggestions. I appreciate it.

Three brains is better than one!!!

I'll keep you posted,

Kathryn


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## Ngagchu (Sep 8, 2008)

Hi Kathryn!

I also had a dickens of a time with the Shetlands this year :-( ... Not because of the wool, but because they would not hold still for anything!

An old-timer told me once that the natural shedding time for the Shetlands is a bad time to shear, due to the break in the wool. Here in Wisconsin that's around early June. He told me that if you're around that time, to cut out from the skin a little farther to avoid the weak spot (which will jam up the blades, as you may be noticing). Of course, not riding on the skin can be tricky on its own. You may end up with an oddly-shaped sheep  ...

Hope this helps! I'm all done for the year except for a few folks that haven't gotten around to shearing on their own, and who are coming out of the woodwork to find out if I'm still available...

Cheers, Ngagchu


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## sbanks (Dec 19, 2010)

What happened to the pictures at the beginning of this thread?

Can we get them back up?


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## sbanks (Dec 19, 2010)

Ross said:


> Hope this helps
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Can we get some pictures back up?


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