# Fox or Raccoon able to kill goats?



## BothFeet (Dec 3, 2007)

Last night I came home and found one of my dogs in the driveway barking at a goat. This dog has never killed before, but at the time I assumed she had bit the goat. The goat had neck wounds and I saw blood on the dogs neck but no obvious wounds. I secured the dog, saw where the dogs had broken through the gate, and went looking for all my goats. I found another one of my dogs far from the house with lots of blood, one ear heavily damaged and lots of head and neck wounds and another goat dead from neck wounds. Again, I assumed all the damage was caused by the first dog. I took the second dog to the vet. Once they got her all shaved they said the bites are way too small for dog bites and they think they are raccoon bites. After washing and assessing the first dog I see that she has no blood on or near her mouth and she also has several small puncture wounds in the neck, just not as severe as the second dog. I have never seen a raccoon here but I have seen a fox. Can either the fox or the raccoon have killed the goats? I never thought such a thing could happen.


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## LFRJ (Dec 1, 2006)

Chupacabra!

Seriously though, sorry to hear of your loss. I'll be interested in this thread and its responses.


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## Manchamom (May 18, 2003)

You're right up the coast from us. Our boar raccoons are upwards of 50 lbs and mean. They have no problem at all tearing up dogs and can kill small goats.
The ***** will bait the dogs with a couple smaller ones dancing around, feinting runs at him, keeping his attention and then the males wil jump right on the dogs back tearing and ripping or the dog will see him and run to grab him, the **** will go under the dog tearing like a cat. They like to grab the skin at the neck and hang their weight trying to pull the dog over. Many **** hunters here lose young dogs in training and older ones that get cornered. The pack we HAD here was 5 ***** all together plus young at times. They once killed and carried off a 35lb adult turkey. Our new neighbor has a malamute/wolf hybrid. Does a good job on small predators. 
You also have possums you're not seeing. 30lb rats and act like it.
Make sure you watch for rabies in your wounded animals. Goats can get it too.


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## Cannon_Farms (Aug 28, 2008)

Raccoon isnt likely but I have seen some huge ones in the Adirondacks that very well could but still not likely. Since the goats had wounds on the neck and assuming they where larger goats I would be blaming the fox. Heres the flip side, ***** can typically do a lot more damage to a dog than a fox unless your dog is not a fighter and unless you find a carcass soon it sounds like your dog got his butt kicked. 
here is another twist, if dog 1 did it, then dog two is more likely to join in than defend. I know thats been ruled out but just so you know.

Have you heard something that sounds like a woman yelping? you can google the sound a fox makes if you dont know what it is.

This is a cool site for ID on the distruction
http://icwdm.org/inspection/livestock.asp

this may help you with figuring it out from bite wound mesurments
http://www.raccoonworld.com/raccoonskeleton.html

the best one I can find on foxes, 
http://www.btinternet.com/~alison.gilsland/hedbone/Fox/fox.htm but at least if you can measure the bite marks you can see if its the smaller **** or a larger fox


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## julieq (Oct 12, 2008)

No idea what predator you're dealing with, but I'm so very sorry for your loss. I too would ask my vet about rabies in your injured animals.


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## BothFeet (Dec 3, 2007)

thank you!
the vet did talk to me about rabies. all vaccines are up to date but we are watching close just in case. no other dogs or small children allowed here for two weeks. i will go looking for carcasses and i plan to get traps.


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## FrogTacos (Oct 25, 2011)

I recommend finding a local hunting forum and seeing if you can get someone to come take care of a predator problem.


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## NataliaTwoDoes (Mar 24, 2011)

Do you live near a water body and/or a suburban population? I have found that the raccoons where I used to live (by a river in a small suburb) were tenacious and would attack anything that would not fight back, they like easy meals. Raccoons will eat anything that will allow it to and I would suppose that that would include goats if they find it possible to do so. The raccoons where I live now are not as used to people and dogs we are more rural with 5 + acres per parcel and they are much more skittish. When I housed my goats and my chickens in the same run I never had a problem with raccoons and I certainly dont think they would go after a goat but that doesnt mean you dont have some pretty unusual raccoons in your area. I agree its probably more likely a fox.


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## Manchamom (May 18, 2003)

I've been warned that they will take small goats, don't know about adults getting killed. Are you sure it wasn't a Wolverine? Or a Bobcat?


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## BothFeet (Dec 3, 2007)

Bobcats and wolverines are not known for this area. I am east of Sacramento, CA and not in the foothills or mountains. The bites are very small like something with needle like teeth got the dogs. I was able to see them really well on the dog who is the worst off as the vet shaved all the fur out of the way. My husband saw a fox just a few weeks ago. I am having animal control out to set traps .... will be very curious to see what I catch.


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## mpete (Mar 4, 2008)

I am up by Redding. We are not 'suppose' to have wolverine here, but I have proven to F&G that we do... I think they just stroll by, I guess "migrating". But I think the wolverine would kill different... I've been trying to find out, but I can't get anything definite. 
Bob cat on the other hand are everywhere.... I have seen them in Yuba City. They are not common, but they are there. But a bobcat is also bigger than the house cats... They would have bigger teeth. 
I have a call into a F&G friend of mine... I will see what they say.... I hope tonight is quiet for you.


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## mpete (Mar 4, 2008)

http://www.destin.com/articles/raccoon-56228-gaston-rabid-attacked.html

http://icwdm.org/inspection/livestock.asp

heres some info on coyotes:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coyote
Coyotes will typically bite the throat just behind the jaw and below the ear when attacking adult sheep or goats, with death commonly resulting from suffocation. Blood loss is usually a secondary cause of death. Calves and heavily-fleeced sheep are killed by attacking the flanks or hind-quarters, causing shock and blood loss. When attacking smaller prey, such as young lambs, the kill is made by biting the skull and spinal regions, causing massive tissue and ossular damage. Small or young prey may be completely carried off, leaving only blood as evidence of a kill. Coyotes will usually leave the hide and most of the skeleton of larger animals relatively intact, unless food is scarce, in which case they may leave only the largest bones. Scattered bits of wool, skin and other parts are characteristic where coyotes feed extensively on larger carcasses.[16]

I hope some of this may lead to an answer for you.


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## motdaugrnds (Jul 3, 2002)

So sorry for your loss. Glad you're setting up tracks. Glad, also, we don't have the size of ***** you do up there.

If I were in your shoes, I would not make the assumption that, if one dog had attacked your goat, the other would join in. I have two very large dogs; and if one gets a little too aggressive in its play, the other one stops it. (I was even playing with the youngest when it was a puppy, attempting to teach it to be more aggressive. When it did start growling at me, "Apache" our other dog ran over, looked it right in the face and growled at it. My oldest Nubian doe also ran over and lowered her head ready to butt it.) Animals do not always follow the pack; sometimes they think for themselves. (We encourage such individual thinking by often giving different commands to each dog; so they learn they can behave individually and still be rewarded.)


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## BackfourtyMI. (Sep 3, 2007)

I am so sorry for your loss & hope you catch the predators that did this! Hopefully traps will work. If not I bet there's hunters around you that would gladly help with the problem.


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## jen74145 (Oct 31, 2006)

There are wolverines by Tahoe, at least. I'm in NorCal now too. Were it a wolverine I would think you'd have a couple dog carcasses on your hands too.

Raccoon... possible. I never underestimate raccoons.


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## houndlover (Feb 20, 2009)

I don't think it was wild animals, maybe coyote, and I think your vet is probably just wildly guessing about the bite wounds, as bite marks often overlap and are very very hard to identify, most vets are not trained in that kind of work. It was likely another dog or dogs, your dogs fought with them, or coyotes, except that coyotes rarely fight, they'll simply run away. It could even have been YOUR dogs, and hey fought with each other. Most wild animals won't hang around long enough to kill a goat, when there are dogs barking at them.


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## NataliaTwoDoes (Mar 24, 2011)

wolverines were discovered in the tahoe basin several years ago and they used to be native to cali...... who knows maybe it was a wolverine


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## NataliaTwoDoes (Mar 24, 2011)

darn it just noticed jens comment...lol I remember the articles from a few years back but now I just feel redundant


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## CarolT (Mar 12, 2009)

I'm sorry for your loss. It must have been horrible.

I do have to add that incubation for rabies can actually be years in some cases and rabies is _not_ a common vaccination for goats. The dogs can be considered safe after 2 weeks as not having attacked the goats because of them having rabies, but it's no guarantee of anything not contracting it from a bite.

The 2 week quarantine is for an animal that has bitten someone or something. If it is far along enough in the disease to be contagious, it would die within 2 weeks.


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## bknthesdle (Mar 27, 2011)

Our barn cat had a kitten this spring. (only one she nursed) I couldn't understand why she wouldn't leave her kitten in the barn. Instead she kept moving her kitten. It was never in the same place for long. We kept our cat food in the barnn but always seemed we went thru it faster than we should with only one cat. This fall, I found what looked like little baby hand prints in the water trough for the horses. I had no idea what it could be. When my neighbor came over she identified the prints as raccoon prints. It makes so much sense now why our cat was acting weird, why we went thru our food so fast, and why we lost 2 five month old kittens last winter in a snow storm. One was ate complete (fur was gone, skull picked clean. The other kitten was killed and left behind. No signs of wounds.) 

They also destroyed my corn in my garden when it ripened.

I am hoping to talk my DH into baiting a trap with an egg to see if we really do have **** problems. Cause I want them gone!


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