# Sweden - The Land of Adults



## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

Most of Sweden’s restrictions are recommendations: wash your hands, don’t go to parties, don’t travel and keep a distance. Limit contact with other people – especially if you’re a person at higher risk from coronavirus, like my mum. Aside from a bunch of recommendations are just common sense, there are currently four government rules: no public gatherings of over 50 people; no visiting retirement homes; no travelling to Denmark (the borders are closed), and bars and restaurants have to make sure it doesn’t get crowded – guests must be served sitting down by a table.

https://www.vice.com/en_au/article/epgj7m/life-sweden-herd-immunity-without-lockdown


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

“Summer is almost here! Let’s get on with our lives.”

Lockdown in Sweden feels far away. We could probably do it for a couple of weeks if someone told us to. Other countries enforce penalties to make sure people don’t leave their homes; Sweden is asking people to trust their common sense. But what happens when the situation is everything but common? You’re guaranteed to feel a little lost. I’m just left feeling worried, all because I’m not worried enough.


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)




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## SLADE (Feb 20, 2004)

This was declared a war a pandemic a national emergency.
We should all be fighting the common enemy corona virus.
Sadly that doesn't jibe with making profits.
Lets open the country as we are not having fun.


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## Mish (Oct 15, 2015)

SRSLADE said:


> Sadly that doesn't jibe with making profits.
> Lets open the country as we are not having fun.


Or maybe most people aren't independently wealthy or pulling a pension/Social Security and perhaps they are running out of money from not working, while simultaneously realizing that this is not really the zombie apocalypse for them that those who are independently wealthy or pulling a pension/Social Security want to make them think it is.


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## barnbilder (Jul 1, 2005)

There have been lots of "pandemics" throughout history, with similar "death rates". The only time we ever tried a lockdown of this nature on a similar causative agent, the second wave was ugly.

This one may barely register on the scale, under the microscope of subjective history, once facts and figures are accurately sorted. We are told The Spanish Flu killed 50 million, The Asian Flu killed over a million, The Hong Kong Flu killed 100,000 in just the US. 2009 H1N1 killed 300,000. Malaria kills 1,100 a day, and it has been around forever. 647,000 Americans die of heart disease each year. Lightning kills people. A meteor could kill you. You could win the lottery, you will die. It's all about perspective.


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## GTX63 (Dec 13, 2016)

Mish said:


> Or maybe most people aren't independently wealthy or pulling a pension/Social Security and perhaps they are running out of money from not working, while simultaneously realizing that this is not really the zombie apocalypse for them that those who are independently wealthy or pulling a pension/Social Security want to make them think it is.


Good point. 
There seem to be a few posters here who hop from bed to the computer every single morning, seemingly undisturbed by an obligation to employment or working for an income.


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## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

GTX63 said:


> Good point.
> There seem to be a few posters here who hop from bed to the computer every single morning, seemingly undisturbed by an obligation to employment or working for an income.


That is a very sweeping statement. maybe they are posting while drinking their morning coffee. Maybe they work in the evenings. Maybe they don't punch a clock and can post while in between tasks. Maybe they are self-employed and post when they want to. So many explanations for why and when they post.


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## GTX63 (Dec 13, 2016)

I intended it to be sweeping.


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

painterswife said:


> That is a very sweeping statement. *maybe* they are posting while drinking their morning coffee. *Maybe* they work in the evenings. *Maybe* they don't punch a clock and can post while in between tasks. *Maybe* they are self-employed and post when they want to. So many *explanations* for why and when they post.


*Maybe* he was correct.
It seems to be another case where everyone can decide for themselves, *without* "explanations".


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## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

Bearfootfarm said:


> *Maybe* he was correct.
> It seems to be another case where everyone can decide for themselves, *without* "explanations".


Sure you can decide for yourself. That does not make it the truth.


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## Terri (May 10, 2002)

I did a quick google search. 

Denmark has a population of about 5.8 million and lost 503 people to COVID

Sweden has a population of about 10.3 million and lost 2,854 people to COVID


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## Evons hubby (Oct 3, 2005)

GTX63 said:


> Good point.
> There seem to be a few posters here who hop from bed to the computer every single morning, seemingly undisturbed by an obligation to employment or working for an income.


I resemble that remark! And no... I do not apologize for having the forethought to work, plan, and save and invest so I'm no longer dependent on a job for my living.


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## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

I am out of bed at 5 am at the latest and I usually have sent off reports and emails before 5:30 am. I have also started system and software updates by then as well.


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## StL.Ed (Mar 6, 2011)

SRSLADE said:


> This was declared a war a pandemic a national emergency.
> We should all be fighting the common enemy corona virus.
> Sadly that doesn't jibe with making profits.
> Lets open the country as we are not having fun.


Who declared this war?
Who decided the strategies?
Who decided the tactics?
Maybe the only way to win is not to play.


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## GunMonkeyIntl (May 13, 2013)

StL.Ed said:


> Who declared this war?
> Who decided the strategies?
> Who decided the tactics?
> Maybe the only way to win is not to play.


Unfortunately, you don’t have to play this game in order to lose. If the goal is to crash the economy, they don’t need our ante.


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

painterswife said:


> Sure you can decide for yourself. That does not make it the truth.





> said: ↑
> Maybe he was correct.
> It seems to be another case where everyone can decide for themselves, *without* *"explanations*".


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## Danaus29 (Sep 12, 2005)

Sweden might be the land of adults but the United States is the land of rebellious teenagers. 
How can you get people to be considerate about not spreading disease when you can't get them to stop killing people with their cars?


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## StL.Ed (Mar 6, 2011)

GunMonkeyIntl said:


> Unfortunately, you don’t have to play this game in order to lose. If the goal is to crash the economy, they don’t need our ante.


The choice not to play, as with any war game, needs to be on the national level.


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## Rodeo's Bud (Apr 10, 2020)

Mish said:


> Or maybe most people aren't independently wealthy or pulling a pension/Social Security and perhaps they are running out of money from not working, while simultaneously realizing that this is not really the zombie apocalypse for them that those who are independently wealthy or pulling a pension/Social Security want to make them think it is.


Thsts my thought on it. Lots of small businesses are not going to reopen. Those owners will have lost everything.

Its great to just hunker down when you don't have large business expenses or insurance payments or shop rent, or payroll expenses from before it shut down. Grest if you are making twice on unemployment as you did working.

For the rest of us, it isn't so great.

We have been fortunate and are in an essential trade. It is getting busier than ever.

However, most small businesses aren't in that situation. They are closed, many for good.

Take away the extra unemployment and put teachers and state workers on regular less than you make unemployment and see how long it is before things open up.

Or take away 2 months of thier income arbitrarily like they did to the small clothing stores that are not not Wally World. Things would look a lot different.


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## Rodeo's Bud (Apr 10, 2020)

Danaus29 said:


> Sweden might be the land of adults but the United States is the land of rebellious teenagers.
> How can you get people to be considerate about not spreading disease when you can't get them to stop killing people with their cars?


Actually the United States is a land of people who are used to being free to move about and take responsibility for our own lives.

We pretty much turned the rest of the world on to that idea.

They just need more practice.


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## Danaus29 (Sep 12, 2005)

Responsibility for our own lives is one thing. But across the nation people refuse to accept that their actions influence other peoples lives. 
The point I am trying to make is that despite laws about regarding the rights of others, Americans frequently refuse to obey laws designed to protect themselves and those around them. You may be free to run every red light and stop sign you come across, but those actions conflict with my right to travel safely in accordance with the traffic laws. The right of freedom does not include the right to eliminate people who happen to be in your way.


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## Mish (Oct 15, 2015)

Yvonne's hubby said:


> I resemble that remark! And no... I do not apologize for having the forethought to work, plan, and save and invest so I'm no longer dependent on a job for my living.


I absolutely don't think you should apologize for that at all. However I do think those of us who have had time to establish ourselves shouldn't forget about the young people out there who haven't yet had the time to save and invest so that they're not dependent on working, either.


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## Danaus29 (Sep 12, 2005)

Mish said:


> I absolutely don't think you should apologize for that at all. However I do think those of us who have had time to establish ourselves shouldn't forget about the young people out there who haven't yet had the time to save and invest so that they're not dependent on working, either.


Agree 100%. And there are those people of all ages who go to work every day providing items and services which others depend upon. 

Lots of people over the age of 60 still go out and work regular jobs.


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## GunMonkeyIntl (May 13, 2013)

Rodeo's Bud said:


> ...Take away the extra unemployment and put teachers and state workers on regular less than you make unemployment and see how long it is before things open up.


I had a similar thought the other day. If all the state workers had regular unemployment, there’d probably be a lot more people at the open-up protests. And, if news anchors were deemed non-essential, I doubt they’d be calling those protests “dangerous right-wing yahoos”... being as they’d be out there on the picket lines, themselves.



Rodeo's Bud said:


> Or take away 2 months of thier income arbitrarily like they did to the small clothing stores that are not not Wally World. Things would look a lot different.


I don’t know how all the “non-essential” small retailers are keeping their cool during this. It’s got to be infuriating driving by a Walmart right now.

None of those now-closed small retailers sell any category of merchandise that Walmart doesn’t, it’s just that the government has told the People that they have to buy it all from Walmart right now.

It’s not like Walmart needed any more advantage, and you’d have to put some real effort into finding something to buy in one of their stores that wasn’t made in China.

Brilliant!


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## GTX63 (Dec 13, 2016)

Rodeo's Bud said:


> Thsts my thought on it. Lots of small businesses are not going to reopen. Those owners will have lost everything.
> 
> Or take away 2 months of thier income arbitrarily like they did to the small clothing stores that are not not Wally World. Things would look a lot different.


My sister owns an alteration, tailoring and leather shop in AZ. She has been shut down for two months.
Not a dime in revenue. She laid off her employees, who considered their livelihood at least "essential" to them. She continues covering her monthly overhead such as taxes, insurance, WC, utilities, paying down vendors, etc.
She applied for PUA which has been set aside for those who are self-employed. The system is so overwhelmed that she has been on hold to the government for hours at a time, only to be disconnected, or told vaguely how busy the government is trying to process claims. Plenty of apologies but no timeline for getting her any assistance. 
The big corporations? They are at the head of the line.
She isn't a competitor to places like Walmart, but it does seem sort of assinine to believe a big box retailer should hold more weight than the tens if not hundreds of thousands of small business owners who are taking in and out of the shorts.


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

Danaus29 said:


> The right of freedom does not include the right to eliminate people who happen to be in your way.


No one is doing any such thing.
Let's try to remain realistic.


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## GTX63 (Dec 13, 2016)

GunMonkeyIntl said:


> I hAnd, if news anchors were deemed non-essential, I doubt they’d be calling those protests “dangerous right-wing yahoos”... being as they’d be out there on the picket lines, themselves.
> Brilliant!


They would be urinating in their panties over the forced censorship and the infringement of the rights of a free press.
See how that works?


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## Rodeo's Bud (Apr 10, 2020)

GTX63 said:


> My sister owns an alteration, tailoring and leather shop in AZ. She has been shut down for two months.
> Not a dime in revenue. She laid off her employees, who considered their livelihood at least "essential" to them. She continues covering her monthly overhead such as taxes, insurance, WC, utilities, paying down vendors, etc.
> She applied for PUA which has been set aside for those who are self-employed. The system is so overwhelmed that she has been on hold to the government for hours at a time, only to be disconnected, or told vaguely how busy the government is trying to process claims. Plenty of apologies but no timeline for getting her any assistance.
> The big corporations? They are at the head of the line.
> She isn't a competitor to places like Walmart, but it does seem sort of assinine to believe a big box retailer should hold more weight than the tens if not hundreds of thousands of small business owners who are taking in and out of the shorts.


There is no way it is safer to go into a crowded Walmart, or stand in a crowded line waiting to go into a Walmart, than it would be for her to let a few customers in at a time.

I assume she doesn't even have more than one or two people in the shop at any one time anyway.

I'd rather go there than the grocery store.

Good thing the government is all about helping the small guy...


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## GTX63 (Dec 13, 2016)

Yes, that is how it works for her. She gets a customer or two that will come in, leave a garment, pick up a garment and they are gone. She and her staff work in the back of the store most of the day. Yet, they were deemed non essential and told the bar the doors until further notice.
The health before wealth candy cliches gargled out by basement dwelling dullerts reflect a lack of awareness for real consequences hurting real people as a result of this over reach.


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## HermitJohn (May 10, 2002)

Perhaps going into debt to race the rats and try to win the economic lottery is the problem? I mean if you own a small store outright, well you can tell everybody to go home for a month or two and lock the door. Dont owe bank or anybody else any money. Everything still there when the shutdown over. Rents are low cause nobody is bidding real estate sky high. Landlords own property outright so not hurting if tenants cant pay due to national emergency.

Whereas you go deep in debt for whats in effect a marginally profitable business. Just closing down for couple weeks can put you in bankruptcy. Cause you are in indentured servitude to bank or corporate landlord or such. 

Sure business can grow faster with lot debt, well if its a good business plan. But in troubled times it can crash even faster. There is no free lunch. Debt is gambling. Sometimes you lose, tough tiddlywinks.


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## Hiro (Feb 14, 2016)

HermitJohn said:


> Perhaps going into debt to race the rats and try to win the economic lottery is the problem? I mean if you own a small store outright, well you can tell everybody to go home for a month or two and lock the door. Dont owe bank or anybody else any money. Everything still there when the shutdown over. Rents are low cause nobody is bidding real estate sky high. Landlords own property outright so not hurting if tenants cant pay due to national emergency.
> 
> Whereas you go deep in debt for whats in effect a marginally profitable business. Just closing down for couple weeks can put you in bankruptcy. Cause you are in indentured servitude to bank or corporate landlord or such.
> 
> Sure business can grow faster with lot debt, well if its a good business plan. But in troubled times it can crash even faster. There is no free lunch. Debt is gambling. Sometimes you lose, tough tiddlywinks.


Have you ever owned your own business?


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## unohu (Mar 10, 2020)

SRSLADE said:


> This was declared a war a pandemic a national emergency.
> We should all be fighting the common enemy corona virus.
> Sadly that doesn't jibe with making profits.
> Lets open the country as we are not having fun.


I talked to the guy that mows our lawn in the summer, a VietNam vet. Stood 1 foot away, he took off his gloves and shook my hand, just like always. We laughed at the comparison of this and what he went thru in an *actual* war. 
There's an enemy to fight, but it's not a virus. The enemy is fear and what it seeks to take away isn't your life, it's your freedom. The veterans of the past were willing to sacrifice their lives for our freedom. As priceless as their lives were, what does that tell you about how valuable freedom is, or at least what it used to be in this country?


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## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

There are people putting their lives on the line every day with this virus to save others. That says a lot to me. There's a war in the hospitals and if you can't see it I can't make you see it.


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## keenataz (Feb 17, 2009)

I wonder why every thread about corona devolves into certain members saying it isn'y anything, or its the flu or propoganda


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## SLADE (Feb 20, 2004)

unohu said:


> I talked to the guy that mows our lawn in the summer, a VietNam vet. Stood 1 foot away, he took off his gloves and shook my hand, just like always. We laughed at the comparison of this and what he went thru in an *actual* war.
> There's an enemy to fight, but it's not a virus. The enemy is fear and what it seeks to take away isn't your life, it's your freedom. The veterans of the past were willing to sacrifice their lives for our freedom. As priceless as their lives were, what does that tell you about how valuable freedom is, or at least what it used to be in this country?


Please don't point your anger at me. I was not the one that called this a war etc etc
I respect all vets and if I saw someone spitting or disrespecting a vet I may feel compelled to apply some slap therapy to the head of the offender.
If your freedom is in danger after this pandemic is over call on me and if need be I hope you would do the same.
I don't listen to talk radio all day getting brainwashed.


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## unohu (Mar 10, 2020)

SRSLADE said:


> Please don't point your anger at me. I was not the one that called this a war etc etc
> I respect all vets and if I saw someone spitting or disrespecting a vet I may feel compelled to apply some slap therapy to the head of the offender.
> If your freedom is in danger after this pandemic is over call on me and if need be I hope you would do the same.
> I don't listen to talk radio all day getting brainwashed.


The only thing I listen to on the radio is rock-n-roll. I can't stand talk radio programs.
And I wasn't aware of any anger pointed anywhere except towards those with dictator intents.



painterswife said:


> There are people putting their lives on the line every day with this virus to save others. That says a lot to me. There's a war in the hospitals and if you can't see it I can't make you see it.


A war in the hospitals?
LOL


keenataz said:


> I wonder why every thread about corona devolves into certain members saying it isn'y anything, or its the flu or propoganda


Probably because there are still people who see what's really going on here.


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## SLADE (Feb 20, 2004)

Can you share where you get information?


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## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

It is conspiracy don't you know. The entire world trying to tank the economy. You need to catch up on your conspiracy theories.


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## Danaus29 (Sep 12, 2005)

Bearfootfarm said:


> No one is doing any such thing.
> Let's try to remain realistic.


You don't drive the same roads I do.


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

Danaus29 said:


> You don't drive the same roads I do.


That has nothing to do with the virus.



keenataz said:


> *I wonder why* every thread about corona devolves into certain members saying it isn'y anything, or its the flu or propoganda


Patterns never change.


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## GunMonkeyIntl (May 13, 2013)

keenataz said:


> I wonder why every thread about corona devolves into certain members saying it isn'y anything, or its the flu or propoganda


Do you also wonder why every thread about corona devolves into certain members virtue-signaling that they’re OK with shutting down their lives to mitigate risk to a minority who could self-quarantine, and imply self-superiority over those who aren’t OK with it?


What?

No?





Shocker.


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## GTX63 (Dec 13, 2016)

HermitJohn said:


> Perhaps going into debt to race the rats and try to win the economic lottery is the problem? I mean if you own a small store outright, well you can tell everybody to go home for a month or two and lock the door. Dont owe bank or anybody else any money. Everything still there when the shutdown over. Rents are low cause nobody is bidding real estate sky high. Landlords own property outright so not hurting if tenants cant pay due to national emergency.


In the most sincerest and politest way possible-What planet of nuclear highschool did you learn business?
Just send everyone home and lock the door for a month? Really lol?
A perfect world where no one has kids, or utilities or a desire to buy a coat or a tv just because?
My gosh man, you have most certainly painted your picture of utopia; now toss it on the wall and see if it sticks.


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## poppy (Feb 21, 2008)

I don't fear the virus at all and if the restaurants weren't closed my life would be unchanged. It is rather comforting to know what I will die from. No matter what it is, COVED-19 will be the official reason. That sad part is I will die a republican but then I will vote democrat like everyone else.


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## GTX63 (Dec 13, 2016)

Might see coroners start prefilling out COD certificates, like how they can stamp your check for you.
"Save money, live better."


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## Evons hubby (Oct 3, 2005)

HermitJohn said:


> Perhaps going into debt to race the rats and try to win the economic lottery is the problem? I mean if you own a small store outright, well you can tell everybody to go home for a month or two and lock the door. Dont owe bank or anybody else any money. Everything still there when the shutdown over. Rents are low cause nobody is bidding real estate sky high. Landlords own property outright so not hurting if tenants cant pay due to national emergency.
> 
> Whereas you go deep in debt for whats in effect a marginally profitable business. Just closing down for couple weeks can put you in bankruptcy. Cause you are in indentured servitude to bank or corporate landlord or such.
> 
> Sure business can grow faster with lot debt, well if its a good business plan. But in troubled times it can crash even faster. There is no free lunch. Debt is gambling. Sometimes you lose, tough tiddlywinks.


What makes you think landlords own their property outright? There are some who do, but they most likely paid on mortgages for years getting there.


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## Terri (May 10, 2002)

GunMonkeyIntl said:


> Do you also wonder why every thread about corona devolves into certain members virtue-signaling that they’re OK with shutting down their lives to mitigate risk to a minority who could self-quarantine, and imply self-superiority over those who aren’t OK with it?


Not hardly.

It was so those people who need to see a doctor will be ABLE to see a doctor. Did you not read about "flattening the curve"?


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## Evons hubby (Oct 3, 2005)

Terri said:


> Not hardly.
> 
> It was so those people who need to see a doctor will be ABLE to see a doctor. Did you not read about "flattening the curve"?


In my area several seem to be "fattening the curves".


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## Rodeo's Bud (Apr 10, 2020)

Terri said:


> Not hardly.
> 
> It was so those people who need to see a doctor will be ABLE to see a doctor. Did you not read about "flattening the curve"?


They did that. Now that isn't enough. Now it MUST be that no one gets sick at all, or there can be no chance for anyone at any time to get sick.

That isn't what they said when this started. 

If the goal posts keep changing we will never open back up.

When will it be good enough to open. They need to let us know. Not keep making up new reasons to keep us down.


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## mreynolds (Jan 1, 2015)

Yvonne's hubby said:


> I resemble that remark! And no... I do not apologize for having the forethought to work, plan, and save and invest so I'm no longer dependent on a job for my living.



Nothing to apologize for.


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## mreynolds (Jan 1, 2015)

GunMonkeyIntl said:


> None of those now-closed small retailers sell any category of merchandise that Walmart doesn’t, it’s just that the government has told the People that they have to buy it all from Walmart right now.


I never thought of it that way but you are right. Why are the small retailers closed while Walmart, HD and LOWES are jammed up like Mardi Gras on Saturday?


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## mreynolds (Jan 1, 2015)

HermitJohn said:


> Perhaps going into debt to race the rats and try to win the economic lottery is the problem? I mean if you own a small store outright, well you can tell everybody to go home for a month or two and lock the door. Dont owe bank or anybody else any money. Everything still there when the shutdown over. Rents are low cause nobody is bidding real estate sky high. Landlords own property outright so not hurting if tenants cant pay due to national emergency.
> 
> Whereas you go deep in debt for whats in effect a marginally profitable business. Just closing down for couple weeks can put you in bankruptcy. Cause you are in indentured servitude to bank or corporate landlord or such.
> 
> Sure business can grow faster with lot debt, well if its a good business plan. But in troubled times it can crash even faster. There is no free lunch. Debt is gambling. Sometimes you lose, tough tiddlywinks.


With all due respect John there is so much here that is just not true. 

First, the government wants you to go into debt. They need you to go into debt. Look up fractional reserve and you will understand what I mean. It is near impossible to start and run a business long term without debt today. It is not irresponsible people, it is by design from up north. 

Second, very very few landlords own outright any buildings. They let us the tenant pay that bill for them. When they do get lucky enough to pay it off they refinance (tax free money) and buy another one or two. 

BRRRR= Buy, Rehab, rent, refinance, repeat. Look that up and see how many times you find that in Google. 

I agree with you though about the best way is to own it outright. It's just not feasible 99% of the time when it comes to business.


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## mreynolds (Jan 1, 2015)

Yvonne's hubby said:


> What makes you think landlords own their property outright? There are some who do, but they most likely paid on mortgages for years getting there.


It was on the internet so it must be true.


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## Redlands Okie (Nov 28, 2017)

The right of freedom does not endow one the right to a safe life. Many people seem to have the assumption that their life should be safe and stress free. Many laws of been passed, many more will be passed trying to insure that everyone lives a happy life. Its a nice goal, totally unrealistic to expect it. Hope for the best, do what you can. The world will turn on.


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## unohu (Mar 10, 2020)

SRSLADE said:


> Can you share where you get information?


You know who.


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## unohu (Mar 10, 2020)

painterswife said:


> It is conspiracy don't you know. The entire world trying to tank the economy. You need to catch up on your conspiracy theories.


It doesn't take much of a conspiracy when working with the gullible.


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

mreynolds said:


> It was on the internet so it must be true.


I've heard that too. 
I'm starting to have some doubts though....


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## GunMonkeyIntl (May 13, 2013)

Terri said:


> Not hardly.
> 
> It was so those people who need to see a doctor will be ABLE to see a doctor. Did you not read about "flattening the curve"?


I have read about “flattening the curve”. I’ve also seen links to countless tick-tock heros in masks doing dance routines or belting out tear-jerkers on the guitar. I’ve lost count of the number of times I’ve seen references to those brave souls having to work 12 hour shifts (with no mention that that’s how their work schedule was before this panic).

I’ve seen my government dole out means-tested financial support that makes it just as comfortable for the low-paid to stay at home, but does nothing to help those who used to earn a comfortable wage before they were told they were no longer allowed to earn a living.

Ive seen death counts that, while sad, are barely elevated above what we normally see from any number of causes every year, and largely offset by deaths that aren’t being counted where they normally would.

I see that many are being manipulated, and I don’t intend to sympathetically accept anyone else’s irrational panic.

I see virtue signalers (several of them on this board) who aren’t affected by this orchestrated economic crash, for one reason or another, who have no problem projecting superiority over those who disagree with the direction we’re taking. I haven’t been affected, financially, by this panic, yet, but I’m seeing a lot more people hurt by it than I am seeing hurt by the virus- and I am certain that we all will feel the pain of this economic crash eventually, even the virtue signalers.


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## Terri (May 10, 2002)

GunMonkeyIntl, the reason that the death rate did NOT soar was because we never expected a doctor to see one patient every minute, or expect a 1000 bed hospital to care for 5000 patients at the same time


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

Terri said:


> It was so those people who need to see a doctor will be ABLE to see a doctor.


No one has been refused treatment.



Terri said:


> GunMonkeyIntl, the reason that the death rate did NOT soar was because we never expected a doctor to see one patient every minute, or expect a 1000 bed hospital to care for 5000 patients at the same time


Death rates are pretty much the same in places that didn't shut down everything.


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## Danaus29 (Sep 12, 2005)

Bearfootfarm said:


> No one has been refused treatment.
> .


Wrong. People have been refused treatment for all kinds of medical and dental needs.


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

Danaus29 said:


> Wrong. People have been refused treatment for all kinds of medical and dental needs.





> *context*
> [ˈkäntekst]
> NOUN
> 
> the circumstances that form the setting for an event, statement, or idea, and in terms of which it can be fully understood and assessed.


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## Terri (May 10, 2002)

Bearfootfarm said:


> No one has been refused treatment.


Because we succeeded in flattening the curve.


Bearfootfarm said:


> Death rates are pretty much the same in places that didn't shut down everything.


No. Sweden had over twice the fatality rate of the neighboring countries Every other country that I can think of had some form of shutting down


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## GunMonkeyIntl (May 13, 2013)

Terri said:


> GunMonkeyIntl, the reason that the death rate did NOT soar was because we never expected a doctor to see one patient every minute, or expect a 1000 bed hospital to care for 5000 patients at the same time


I won’t argue that the death rate wouldn’t have been higher without the weird pseudo-quarantine thing we’ve been doing. I don’t think either of us can say how much higher it would have been, though.

What we can say, though, is that April (JUST April) is going to show somewhere around 20 million jobs lost in the US. Some of those jobs feed 2, 3, 4 people, or more.

We have no idea how many people really have had, or even died from the Wu Flu in the US, but, even the estimates we have now (_not even accounting for the mysterious drop in heart attacks, strokes, flu, and pneumonia deaths at, coincidentally, the exact same time_), it’s somewhere around 0.02% of the population. Double it, or even triple it, if you like, for a projection of what it would have been without the quasi-quarantine “you’re allowed to earn money, but you’re not” thing we’ve been doing.

That’s 0.06% of the population, without accounting for the those mysteriously disappearing death-by-other-causes, or the wildly volatile “predictive models”. 0.06%, at most.

In the month of April... just April, 6.7% of the American population (not the workforce, the ENTIRE population) lost jobs. Considering that only 60% of people over 16 even have jobs, the percentage is probably at least double that. Somewhere around 13% of the working population of the US lost their job in April. Just April.

We could get hung up on projections of how many are going to lose their jobs in May, June, July...August. How more are going to keep losing their jobs due to an economy that just got poisoned trying to save that 0.04% of the population, or whatever the number would have been, but there’s no point.

Your side seems to stop at nothing short of “shut the whole thing down, as long as needs-be, if it saves just one life”. Your side is ready to accuse those of us who disagree, even slightly on what the severity of the reaction should have been, as putting wealth before health.

I’ll own that. I do put the “wealth”, if that’s what you want to call being able to simply feed ones family, of 40 million people over the health of 200 thousand.


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## Mish (Oct 15, 2015)

On top of all that, this just in:

https://www.cnbc.com/2020/05/06/ny-...hospitalizations-are-people-staying-home.html

*Cuomo says it’s ‘shocking’ most new coronavirus hospitalizations are people who had been staying home*

_"“If you notice, 18% of the people came from nursing homes, less than 1% came from jail or prison, 2% came from the homeless population, 2% from other congregate facilities, but 66% of the people were at home, which is shocking to us,” Cuomo said.

“This is a surprise: Overwhelmingly, the people were at home,” he added. “We thought maybe they were taking public transportation, and we’ve taken special precautions on public transportation, but actually no, because these people were literally at home.”

Cuomo said nearly 84% of the hospitalized cases were people who were not commuting to work through car services, personal cars, public transit or walking. He said a majority of those people were either retired or unemployed. Overall, some 73% of the admissions were people over age 51..

...Cuomo said state health officials had thought a high percentage of people who were hospitalized would be essential employees, like health-care workers or city staff, who are still going to work.""
_
It'll be interesting to see if it pans out that none of this was actually useful or necessary. Interesting being the kindest word I can come up with.


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## Evons hubby (Oct 3, 2005)

GunMonkeyIntl said:


> I won’t argue that the death rate wouldn’t have been higher without the weird pseudo-quarantine thing we’ve been doing. I don’t think either of us can say how much higher it would have been, though.
> 
> What we can say, though, is that April (JUST April) is going to show somewhere around 20 million jobs lost in the US. Some of those jobs feed 2, 3, 4 people, or more.
> 
> ...


So far I've not heard of a single person starving to death in the us of a.


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## Terri (May 10, 2002)

GunMonkeyIntl said:


> Your side seems to stop at nothing short of “shut the whole thing down, as long as needs-be, if it saves just one life”. Your side is ready to accuse those of us who disagree, even slightly on what the severity of the reaction should have been, as putting wealth before health.


Nope. Not a bit of it.

I am of the side that says "Why the Sam Hill did we do NOTHING until this thing had spread nation wide"???????

Think about that for a minute. We COULD have slowed the spread by asking people in the first affected areas to wear masks, but instead it was announced that masks were dangerous. Poppycock.
We could have further slowed the spread my testing the people we knew had been exposed, but instead tests were limited to people who were already hospitalized with COVID symptoms. By then everybody KNEW what the hospitalized patient had.

Basically, we COULD have slowed the spread to give us a chance to develop an effective treatment. Instead the government did NOTHING until it was an emergency, and then basically shouted "Hide from COVID or DIE!!!!!"

Idiots.

By the time the Feds reacted, their practical choices had narrowed to almost nothing! As in, shut down the country or lose 60,000 more Americans than they would have lost if they had done nothing

I am beyond disgusted


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## Terri (May 10, 2002)

Mish? I bet those sick people had visited their kids. I know that I have. I am an introvert, not a hermit


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

Terri said:


> Because we succeeded in flattening the curve.


That's speculation.



Terri said:


> No. Sweden had over *twice the fatality rate* of the neighboring countries


There are lots of variables.
You can't just pick one and say that's the only factor.



Terri said:


> I am of the side that says "Why the Sam Hill did we *do NOTHING* until this thing had spread nation wide"???????


That's not a true statement.


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## Terri (May 10, 2002)

Bearfootfarm, can you tell me what was done in the early stages? It is possible that I just had not heard


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## SLADE (Feb 20, 2004)

When this is over we'll have to follow the money and see who did what, why and when.


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

Terri said:


> Bearfootfarm, can you tell me what was done in the *early* stages?


https://www.cnn.com/2020/02/06/health/wuhan-coronavirus-timeline-fast-facts/index.html

The first federal response was in January, *before* there was a confirmed case in the country.



> January 29, 2020 - The White House announces the formation of a new task force that will help monitor and contain the spread of the virus, and ensure Americans have accurate and up-to-date health and travel information, it says.
> 
> January 30, 2020 - The United States reports its first confirmed case of person-to-person transmission of the coronavirus. On the same day, the WHO determines that the outbreak constitutes a Public Health Emergency of International Concern (PHEIC).


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## Terri (May 10, 2002)

So they started working on a vaccine in January, and in the end of January started a committee. And, it was decided to not allow Chinese Nationals in, though US citizens could still enter the country and not be told to stay home for a few days.

In the end of February they started drug trials.

On March 4th the CDC decided to allow testing to people who were not in the hospital. I believe that I mentioned that testing had been restricted to hospitalized patients n the early stages of this pandemic. In the middle of March the government FINALLY decided to do something more than fund studies, but, the tactics used to scare people away from protecting themselves with masks was not re-thought until early April https://www.cbsnews.com/news/wear-face-masks-coronavirus-public-experts/

Basically, according to the website you listed, nothing much was done to stop the spread once it was in the country until the middle of March.

I maintain that people who had recently traveled internationally should have been wearing masks since late January. Also that scare tactics should not have been used to prevent people from wearing masks to protect themselves and others, and that is before I even consider why the USA did not buy test kits overseas when the CDC could not supply them


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

Terri said:


> I maintain that people who had recently traveled internationally *should have been wearing masks* since late January.


Nothing was stopping them.

You said "nothing" was done.
That was false.



Terri said:


> why the USA did not buy test kits overseas when the CDC could not supply them


That's been discussed many times.
The tests weren't approved for use here.
You just keep repeating the media spin.


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## Terri (May 10, 2002)

Nothing effective was done by the government to slow the spread, and they actively discouraged people from protecting themselves.


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## GTX63 (Dec 13, 2016)

Stupid people existed before the Wuhan and they continue to exist, despite our best efforts, yet now something needs to be done.
Faulting the government for failing to manage anything satisfactorily should only be acceptable to do for someone born yesterday.
Has the government fooled you once? Have they fooled you twice?
Failing to prepare for the failings of others is on who?


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## Mish (Oct 15, 2015)

Terri said:


> Mish? I bet those sick people had visited their kids. I know that I have. I am an introvert, not a hermit


You mean the sick people in the article I quoted? Yeah, I don't know. It's just interesting that Cuomo is saying they weren't traipsing around and it's surprising to them that those were the people getting sick and not those who are traipsing around going to work.

My mother-in-law is very concerned about getting sick and has not been out of the house for over a month now, nor has she visited in person with anyone but us. She's even sort of self-isolating in the house, most of her day is spent in her room and when she comes out to eat she asked that we stay in the other room because the husband is still working and I'm still having to go out to shop. None of the rest of the family have visited, she does Zoom conferences with them when she misses them. We yell back and forth from the other room while she's eating for conversation. She's taking it very seriously, which is what people should do if they are actually concerned, I think. 

Not at all trying to be judgemental toward anyone, it just doesn't make sense to me that people would be visiting their kids if they're actually self-isolating because they're concerned about getting sick or are in high risk groups. No judgement, just questioning the logic and purpose of the whole thing at that point.


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## GunMonkeyIntl (May 13, 2013)

SRSLADE said:


> When this is over we'll have to follow the money and see who did what, why and when.


I did not see this day ever coming, but, @SRSLADE , you get @trickygrandma’s in-absentia Post of The Day Award. 

I never thought we’d agree on anything. 

I’ll take your logic a step further and suggest we look at who is in office when this is all “over”. That is essentially the same as “following the money” since federal politics is the only American career path that one can count a 10-20 year career at a six-figure job ensuring an eight-figure nest egg. 

Watch how the two sides play this “crisis” out as the next flu season is spinning up, and you’ll know all you need to know about what why what was done was done.


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## Hiro (Feb 14, 2016)

GunMonkeyIntl said:


> I did not see this day ever coming, but, @SRSLADE , you get @trickygrandma’s in-absentia Post of The Day Award.
> 
> I never thought we’d agree on anything.
> 
> ...


Not just yourself, your children, family members (extended or immediate) and friends get lucrative deals from all over the world. And suddenly, you are in a position to exclude them from any scrutiny in perpetuity. Well, if you are on the proper side of the aisle that is.


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## GunMonkeyIntl (May 13, 2013)

Terri said:


> Nope. Not a bit of it.
> 
> I am of the side that says "Why the Sam Hill did we do NOTHING until this thing had spread nation wide"???????
> 
> ...


I’m today’s world, you can’t lock a virus in a box and expect it not to spread. 

The offending organism has evolved to infect individuals, not show symptoms for several days, to allow itself to multiply and shed, and survive outside the host as long as possible. In the modern, global society, you’ll never know who all had contact with it until well after they’ve passed it to dozens or hundreds of others. 

The more we learn about this virus, the earlier they push the American “patient 0” to the left. Experts were scoffing anyone thinking anyone had it in the US before that nursing home in Olympia... until they confirmed a few people died with it in California a month earlier. 

I’m not much of a gambler, but I’d bet real money that we had the virus living in the US before the calendar turned to 2020. 

The smart approach would have been to accept that there are countless viruses living today, and that, while all of us are at some risk of dying from them, a small minority of us are most at risk- and then build a response from that perspective. 

Throwing a 30-something woman in jail for trying to operate her business, when we could just advise the at-risk 60-something that they probably should self-isolate while this one is going around, is what is disgusting.


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## GunMonkeyIntl (May 13, 2013)

Hiro said:


> Not just yourself, your children, family members (extended or immediate) and friends get lucrative deals from all over the world. And suddenly, you are in a position to exclude them from any scrutiny in perpetuity. Well, if you are on the proper side of the aisle that is.


I agree up to the point that you think it’s only one side doing it. 

There’s scarcely a clean conscience in Washington, DC.


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## Hiro (Feb 14, 2016)

GunMonkeyIntl said:


> I agree up to the point that you think it’s only one side doing it.
> 
> There’s scarcely a clean conscience in Washington, DC.


They all do it. Just one side is virtually immune to the scrutiny that it deserves for the whole corrupt enterprise that it has become, whether it be profiteering or exploitation.


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## Danaus29 (Sep 12, 2005)

By the time the US government acted, covid 19 was already here.
https://www.npr.org/sections/corona...death-was-on-feb-6-a-post-mortem-test-reveals
Most likely it was here when China enacted the lockdown January 23rd.


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

Danaus29 said:


> By the time the US government acted, covid 19 was already here.
> https://www.npr.org/sections/corona...death-was-on-feb-6-a-post-mortem-test-reveals
> Most likely it was here when China enacted the lockdown January 23rd.


What's your point?
The federal Govt isn't psychic?



> "Testing criteria set by the CDC at the time restricted testing to only individuals with a known travel history and who sought medical care for specific symptoms."


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## reneedarley (Jun 11, 2014)

Bearfootfarm said:


> That's speculation.
> 
> 
> There are lots of variables.
> ...


In Sweden an enormous proportion of the deaths are in the old peoples' homes. 80 and 90 year olds. And I don't understand it. How is the virus getting in


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## SLADE (Feb 20, 2004)

All the talk about China and secret labs is to take your mind off the fact that your leaders knew about this virus and did nothing.
They failed you and tanked the economy they wanted to preserve.
They now seem to think you can just die.
No big deal for them.


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

GunMonkeyIntl said:


> I agree up to the point that you think it’s only one side doing it.
> 
> There’s scarcely a clean conscience in Washington, DC.


It had one unneeded word - "There’s scarcely a conscience in Washington, DC."


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

SRSLADE said:


> All the talk about China


You trying your hand at comedy now, since you failed so miserably with drama?


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## SLADE (Feb 20, 2004)

When the 2nd wave hits the economy the one they chose over the people will be gone.
Genius.


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## barnbilder (Jul 1, 2005)

Terri said:


> Because we succeeded in flattening the curve.
> No. Sweden had over twice the fatality rate of the neighboring countries Every other country that I can think of had some form of shutting down


Fatality rate, death rate, all mental floss. Per infection, it will work out about the same. People that are predisposed to death by Covid will die if they get it now, or if they get it six months from now. The whole idea was to not overwhelm hospitals (who kill more people than C-19). Sweden took the gamble, didn't tank their economy, and didn't overwhelm their hospitals. Go Sweden.


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

reneedarley said:


> In Sweden an enormous proportion of the deaths are in the old peoples' homes. 80 and 90 year olds. And I don't understand it. *How is the virus getting in*


Through visitors, staff and delivery people.


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## Evons hubby (Oct 3, 2005)

reneedarley said:


> In Sweden an enormous proportion of the deaths are in the old peoples' homes. 80 and 90 year olds. And I don't understand it. How is the virus getting in


People bring it in. Delivery people, health care workers, visitors, even new patients. Once in the door it spreads.


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## farmmaid (Jan 13, 2003)

Bearfootfarm said:


> *Maybe* he was correct.
> It seems to be another case where everyone can decide for themselves, *without* "explanations".


Bear Foot Farm, in my opinion is absolutely correct. Do what is best for YOU while being considerate of others!


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## edjewcollins (Jun 20, 2003)

The current Covid 19 mortality rate in America for ALL PEOPLE is 0.000013425294117647058%. You are 4 times more likely to be killed by a medical mistake. Influenza is quite often more lethal. 
There will be no vaccine in the foreseeable future and there has never been a coronavirus vaccine.
Live your life.


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

edjewcollins said:


> The current Covid 19 mortality rate in America for ALL PEOPLE is 0.000013425294117647058%. You are 4 times more likely to be killed by a medical mistake. Influenza is quite often more lethal.
> There will be no vaccine in the foreseeable future and there has never been a coronavirus vaccine.
> Live your life.


Can you show your math?

I calculate 
76,368 Deaths
331,000,000 US Population
0.02% US Mortality Rate


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## SLADE (Feb 20, 2004)

This isn't over so the day to day numbers don't mean much.
We may be just getting started.
Lets do a tally at the end.


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

SRSLADE said:


> This isn't over so the day to day numbers don't mean much.
> We may be just getting started.
> Lets do a tally at the end.


It will never end. This virus will always be around.


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## SLADE (Feb 20, 2004)

Lets give it one year.
Then we can see how we did.


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

farmmaid said:


> Bear Foot Farm, in my opinion is absolutely correct


I never said anything about *your* opinion.


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## GTX63 (Dec 13, 2016)

HDRider said:


> It will never end. This virus will always be around.


Joe Tremble and Lucy Quiver will always be around. The virus is just their current vehicle and what gets their tingle today.
I just can't take anyone seriously who try to use fear to make up for rational, informed discussion.
To be taken seriously one has to overcome their shakes and let a little common sense in.
It takes the stink out of the room and is quite pleasant.


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## Redlands Okie (Nov 28, 2017)

HDRider said:


> Can you show your math?
> 
> I calculate
> 76,368 Deaths
> ...


Ok what am I doing different ? I am coming up with .0002 with the numbers above ?


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

Redlands Okie said:


> Ok what am I doing different ? I am coming up with .0002 with the numbers above ?


.0002 is .02%


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## Redlands Okie (Nov 28, 2017)

Gees, Thanks


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## mreynolds (Jan 1, 2015)

Redlands Okie said:


> Gees, Thanks


Get it right because otherwise you will be fake news.


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## Twp.Tom (Dec 29, 2010)

No lock down here in Sweden* Day care, and Elementary Schools are open(if they closed these- how would people go to work and pay taxes?). Higher education, University, etc... closed. Restaurants, pubs, public paces working under strict guide lines ,as not to infect customers? Not a lot of hysteria, but fear. Older people are the ones mostly being affected. Every thing has been postponed, or cancelled-for now, and the near future (until further notice). We live in a very,very rural area- I don't know of anyone in my vicinity that has been infected? The National economy will suffer through all of this, as tourism is big-here in Sweden. Especially up North, where we live... lot's of Europeans come up here to camp, fish , hike, and enjoy the pristine nature that we have to offer. Borders are closed- and that may not happen this summer? There is no close social contact- no hugging, kissing, shaking hands,... etc. Who knows where this will end, if it ends? Nobody knows, Scientists, Governments, not even some of the more knowledgeable members here on this site? I hope that everyone here weathers this storm as well as possible. Please don't forget the poor, the weak, and the less unfortunate during these times, as they will suffer the most.*


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## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

Twp.Tom said:


> No lock down here in Sweden* Day care, and Elementary Schools are open(if they closed these- how would people go to work and pay taxes?). Higher education, University, etc... closed. Restaurants, pubs, public paces working under strict guide lines ,as not to infect customers? Not a lot of hysteria, but fear. Older people are the ones mostly being affected. Every thing has been postponed, or cancelled-for now, and the near future (until further notice). We live in a very,very rural area- I don't know of anyone in my vicinity that has been infected? The National economy will suffer through all of this, as tourism is big-here in Sweden. Especially up North, where we live... lot's of Europeans come up here to camp, fish , hike, and enjoy the pristine nature that we have to offer. Borders are closed- and that may not happen this summer? There is no close social contact- no hugging, kissing, shaking hands,... etc. Who knows where this will end, if it ends? Nobody knows, Scientists, Governments, not even some of the more knowledgeable members here on this site? I hope that everyone here weathers this storm as well as possible. Please don't forget the poor, the weak, and the less unfortunate during these times, as they will suffer the most.*


It's a novel virus, no one knows what path it will follow. With a cold or the flu, you have symptoms, your body mounts an attack, and within a couple weeks you feel better, usually. Covid doesn't work like that, and now more issues are coming out, toxic shock type issues with kids, permanent heart, lung, and kidney involvement in younger adults that recover, and more issues are being discovered every day.

And thank you for this: "Please don't forget the poor, the weak, and the less unfortunate during these times, as they will suffer the most.*" If everyone gave that simple sentence heed, the world would be a better place. I hope you and yours are safe and sound, Tom.


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

A perspective; In non-pandemic 2017 Sweden had 3589 flu deaths compared to 3679 CV19 deaths in 2020.


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## Terri (May 10, 2002)

HDRider said:


> A perspective; In non-pandemic 2017 Sweden had 3589 flu deaths compared to 3679 CV19 deaths in 2020.


You are comparing a year's worth of flu deaths to 3 months worth of COVID deaths, yes?


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

Terri said:


> You are comparing a year's worth of flu deaths to 3 months worth of COVID deaths, yes?


yes


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## Lisa in WA (Oct 11, 2004)

HDRider said:


> yes


The flu season doesn’t generally last the whole year so it’s not much of a stretch.


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

influenza activity often begins to increase in October. Most of the time flu activity peaks between December and February

https://www.cdc.gov/flu/about/season/flu-season.htm


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## poppy (Feb 21, 2008)

HDRider said:


> influenza activity often begins to increase in October. Most of the time flu activity peaks between December and February
> 
> https://www.cdc.gov/flu/about/season/flu-season.htm


Sounds familiar, just different months. COVID began in January and peaked here in March and April. Sweden didn't lock down and their "curve" was no steeper than ours and their downward trend line is similar to ours. If this virus shows up again this fall, Sweden will be at a huge advantage with more immunity in their population. Here's a good site with lots of facts backed up by studies you can read for yourself.

https://covid19.healthdata.org/sweden


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

Irish Pixie said:


> If everyone gave that simple sentence heed, the world would be a better place.


"Click your heels together and repeat 'There's no place like home'...".


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## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

Bearfootfarm said:


> "Click your heels together and repeat 'There's no place like home'...".


This has absolutely nothing to do with what I said. It's just a rude poke.


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## MichaelZ (May 21, 2013)

poppy said:


> Sounds familiar, just different months. COVID began in January and peaked here in March and April. Sweden didn't lock down and their "curve" was no steeper than ours and their downward trend line is similar to ours. If this virus shows up again this fall, Sweden will be at a huge advantage with more immunity in their population. Here's a good site with lots of facts backed up by studies you can read for yourself.
> 
> https://covid19.healthdata.org/sweden


Yes.


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

Irish Pixie said:


> This has absolutely nothing to do with what I said. It's just a rude poke.


I disagree.
It's no more "rude" than the implication that others don't care, even if they don't constantly mouth the rhetoric.
Unknown author:


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## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

Irish Pixie said:


> It's a novel virus, no one knows what path it will follow. With a cold or the flu, you have symptoms, your body mounts an attack, and within a couple weeks you feel better, usually. Covid doesn't work like that, and now more issues are coming out, toxic shock type issues with kids, permanent heart, lung, and kidney involvement in younger adults that recover, and more issues are being discovered every day.
> 
> And thank you for this: "Please don't forget the poor, the weak, and the less unfortunate during these times, as they will suffer the most.*" If everyone gave that simple sentence heed, the world would be a better place. I hope you and yours are safe and sound, Tom.


If one looks carefully, and not just to make a rude poke, it would be discovered that I was responding to the post above. In particular, the prior poster's statement, ""Please don't forget the poor, the weak, and the less unfortunate during these times, as they will suffer the most.*" Which I believe to be something that all people should live by, but I realize in the real world there are many that won't. 



Bearfootfarm said:


> "Click your heels together and repeat 'There's no place like home'...".


And again in my opinion, and based on a history of such, this post is nothing but a rude poke. The "explanation/substantiation" is a meme. My state is opening, I have friends that have been severely impacted by the shut down of their businesses, and rather than whine on the internet, I bought gift certificates, order from their restaurants for take out, order from their stores for curbside pickup, and anything else I can think of to help them. I've given food, donated to food banks, dozens of "Go Fund Me" pages, it's all I can do right now, but at least I'm doing something other than whining on the internet about how other states are handling their Covid situation. 

I'm sure I'm going to get the tired old "virtue signaling" BS, and I don't care. Have at it, the nasty pokes don't bother me anymore. I'm content with myself and what I'm doing for my family, friends, and community.


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

The Swedish economy expanded at a far superior rate than many of its European counterparts over the first three months of the year, data published Friday showed, following the government’s decision not to impose a full lockdown to contain the spread of the coronavirus.

The Nordic country’s statistics office reported gross domestic product (GDP), the broadest measure of economic health, grew at an annual rate of 0.4% in the first quarter.


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## nchobbyfarm (Apr 10, 2011)

Maybe they did have the right approach. Time will tell the rest of the story.









Sweden sees coronavirus cases drop, after controversially avoiding lockdowns


While coronavirus cases increase in Europe, Sweden continues a downward trend after a much-debated approach kept large parts of society open.




www.foxnews.com


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