# Bernedoodles



## Hespa (Sep 28, 2011)

Does anyone have this hybrid (designer) breed? What are the pros and cons of them? What would you expect to pay for a puppy?


----------



## Maura (Jun 6, 2004)

No.

I would expect the puppy to be very much like a Bernese. Or, to be very much like a poodle. I would expect the dog to shed a lot. Or, to shed very little and need professional grooming. I would expect the dog, whether similar to a Bernese or similar to a poodle, to be a poor example of either breed since anyone who had a fine Bernese or poodle to only breed it with the same breed.

I would expect to pay the normal fee charged by the animal shelter.


----------



## bluemoonluck (Oct 28, 2008)

Lots of hair, and strange grooming requirements. 

Probably will have to pay a fortune for one, but make sure you save plenty of money for the health issues (hip replacements run IIRC around $5,000 per side, but that depends on where you live), most specifically joint issues and eye issues due to poor breeding stock/lack of health testing that is rampant in hybrid breeds. 

People with a good quality, health-tested Poodle are not going to allow it to be bred to a dog of another breed :shrug:, and vice versa. Taking two poorly bred, unhealth tested dogs and breeding them together does not magically produce healthy offspring, regardless of what the hybrid breeders will try to tell you so you'll buy their puppies. I know many people who have paid thru their noses for hybrid dogs, then are confused a few months later when the dog has patellar luxation/hip dysplasia/goes blind due to eye issues/has to be PTS at a few years of age due to crippling health issues after the owners have spent thousands upon thousands of dollars on vet bills. 

Or you could go to an animal shelter and adopt a large, long-haired black dog (which is what you'd be getting in this hybrid) since large black dogs have the lowest adoption rate of any type of dog, spend a fraction of the money, and end up with the same thing (i.e. a mutt) that will probably be healthier because it was not the product of a deliberate breeding between two unhealthy dogs.


----------



## jen74145 (Oct 31, 2006)

What a waste of a Berner is my first kneejerk thought. 

I would expect to pay the usual shelter fee, which here is $40 if the animal is already altered. $90 if it's not, and the difference is refunded to you when you bring in the paperwork from the vet showing you had it done.


----------



## GrannyCarol (Mar 23, 2005)

Expect to be ASKED a good deal of money, but without proof that both parents have been cleared for the usual genetic problems in their breed, you have no idea how healthy the pups will be. It's not a good risk and they don't even seem like two breeds that would cross well or consistently together, very different in type and purpose. At least crossing a good natured sporting breed to the smart Poodle might give you something useful, good natured and smart. Poodles were used for hunting and retrieving. But crossing to a Berner? Why? I don't see any rationale even. 

Hybrid vigor might help some, but you can as easily add every genetic problem of a Poodle to every problem of a Berner as you could cover up problems. They don't go away, the genes are there from the parents, so if the parent has a problem, it can pass to the offspring. There are vision problems and hip problems in the Poodles (minimum) that are widely spread. There are hip problems, short life spans, poor fertility (at least) common in Berners. I wouldn't get one without a three generation pedigree of OFA hips on both sides and, even then, when you outcross, you can have a disaster where the bloodlines just don't work together. 

It's not that the pups will necessarily be horrible, but you actually make your chances greater that something will go wrong with that sort of cross and you just don't know how the looks, coat and temperament will sort out.


----------



## Hespa (Sep 28, 2011)

Thanks for the input. They own both the breeds of dogs and are asking the same price for the hybrid as for a pure Bernese - $1,500. My personal thought was that was way too much for a hybrid.


----------



## bluemoonluck (Oct 28, 2008)

I remember quite a few years back when Puggles were going for $3,000 each LOL. I could buy a decent beagle for $400 and a decent Pug for $1,200.....so why in the world did they get away with charging $3,000 for a mutt? (because people will pay it!)

Sounds like these people had an accidental breeding and they're trying to capitalize on it by making it sound like a fancy new breed .


----------



## Maura (Jun 6, 2004)

Just a point- you will not get hybrid vigor. You are breeding a dog to a dog, so you get a mutt, not a hybrid. As pointed out, whatever problems the sire and dam have will be given to the offspring, mixing the breeds does nothing. Sometimes a breeder or club will allow a different breed to be used in their line to improve it, but this is done carefully with as much knowledge as possible (one hopes- not true for the collie x borzoi mess).


----------



## lasergrl (Nov 24, 2007)

Just get a portugese water dog if you like that look. A water dog wont die of cancer at 5 like anything with berner in it would.
I have never seen a berner that was older then 8, and most average much less.

Bernedoodle, Bernedoodles, Berner Poodle Hybrid Dogs


----------



## Ravenlost (Jul 20, 2004)

Why in the world would someone pay that much money for what is basically a mutt??? There are thousands of wonderful "hybrid" "designer" breeds at the local shelters across this country...for much less money! Save your money and save a dog by adopting at the shelter! Those dogs need homes...without them they die.


----------



## Hespa (Sep 28, 2011)

Another breeder of the bernedoodles does health testing on her poodles and berners. She is a veterniary technician so is very much concerned about breeding healthy dogs and her dogs cost considerable more than the $1,500. It seems like somewhere along the line, the "politically" proper term for non-purebred dogs has become "hybrid" or "designer" instead of calling them an offensive name "mutt".


----------



## dbarjacres (Feb 2, 2004)

I'm sooo tired of doodle dogs!!! Our pure bernese is pretty dumb tho so maybe the "smartest of breeds" poodle would help that. Lol

Its just ridiculous what people charge for them.


----------



## lathermaker (May 7, 2010)

dbarjacres said:


> I'm sooo tired of doodle dogs!!! Our pure bernese is pretty dumb tho so maybe the "smartest of breeds" poodle would help that. Lol
> 
> Its just ridiculous what people charge for them.


No, what is ridiculous is what gullible people will pay for a designer mutt. I really wish this fad would go away!


----------



## Ravenlost (Jul 20, 2004)

Hespa said:


> Another breeder of the bernedoodles does health testing on her poodles and berners. She is a veterniary technician so is very much concerned about breeding healthy dogs and her dogs cost considerable more than the $1,500. It seems like somewhere along the line, the "politically" proper term for non-purebred dogs has become "hybrid" or "designer" instead of calling them an offensive name "mutt".


When did "mutt" become an offensive name? We have 17 mutts and none of them are offended at being called such! We also have two purebred dogs, one with papers. Neither cost us a penny.


----------



## Stonybrook (Sep 22, 2007)

I looked at the linked pictures. Looks like a dog you can get at the pound.


----------



## Wolf Flower (Dec 21, 2005)

Hespa said:


> It seems like somewhere along the line, the "politically" proper term for non-purebred dogs has become "hybrid" or "designer" instead of calling them an offensive name "mutt".


Not exactly. "Mutt" is not really an offensive term IMO; I find the terms "hybrid" and "designer dog" offensive. I don't think they are "politically correct" terms at all, but marketing buzzwords. Technically, a "hybrid" is a cross between separate species, like a donkey and a horse. A Mule is a true hybrid. A mixed-breed dog is not.

I HATE this current trend of crossing everything with a Standard Poodle and pretending it's a new hypoallergenic breed, then asking thousands of dollars for a puppy.  Even the originator of the "Labradoodle" deeply regrets what he started.


----------



## lexa (Mar 30, 2012)

I love both, poodles and berns, and like the look of the mix as well. However, I would never own a bernese or a mix of one as berns are very unhealthy breed. 
Cons:
Berns average life expectancy is 7 seven years and their cancer rates are double of all other breeds combined. They have several diseases that are common in poodles as well, so the offspirng of the two will not be healthier if both parents are carriers of diseases. Check this out: Health Issues 
Grooming them would be a hell as well (expensive too), with coats worse than on a goldendoodle, constantly matting. Berns( and goldens) are double coated breeds. Poodles on other hand have extended active hair growth stage that is why they do not drop their coats seasonally . When you combine the two you end up with the dog that has double coat with extended active growth stage in outercoat and that drops undercoat seasonaly, that means that undercoat will be getting tangled in in outer coat. 
I would also expect a lot of fading on that beautiful tricolored coat, as most of US poodles carry fading genetics. 

I would argue that there is hybrid vigor in Doodle crosses but it is not expressed in heath, it is expressed in growth like in classical between breed crossing of cattle, rabbits and chickens. You get a bigger animal when you cross different breeds, like Cornish Rock broilers, for example they are huge but not healthy. With berns and poodles having many osteopathic problems to begin with it would only be worse in larger mix. 
Designer mixes are "in" now so you would eb expected to pay a lot if you buy from a breeder. Some do tests and some do not. From what I know about doodle breeding, price does not reflect the tests done on the dog or care with which the puppie were raised, it only reflect how much the market will bear.

As for pros:
If you want to run a puppy mill, you could make some money duping people out their cash for a cute mutt. 

What attracts you to the mix? There are several breeds that have similar look, poodle included. Google Image Result for http://www.poodleforum.com/attachments/poodle-grooming/22241d1324401147-learning-do-teddy-bear-clip-img_0002-5.jpg
Porties, old english sheepdogs, bearded collies, ungroomed airdales will sport similar looks.


----------



## Hespa (Sep 28, 2011)

It is not that we were necessarily interested in this breed. We really like our Bernese expect for his health issues at 7.5 years. Did we want to get another Bernese and in searching this hybrid came up. I wasn't aware of this breed so that is why I raised the question. Was this a way to have a Bernese-type dog with better results? I appreciate the honesty with which people have answered and we are not planning on this hybrid. However, it sounds like the breeder with the much higher priced puppies is doing a very good job of testing and screening which dogs she will breed. Having said that, we can't justify paying that much for a puppy that will be for a pet.


----------



## DaniR1968 (May 24, 2008)

Hespa said:


> Thanks for the input. They own both the breeds of dogs and are asking the same price for the hybrid as for a pure Bernese - $1,500. My personal thought was that was way too much for a hybrid.



That's not a hybrid or a designer breed. It's a mutt. Unless there was a true purpose behind this cross, I wouldn't give more than $50 for it. By purpose I mean two working breeds that would complement each other to make a better herding dog or lgd or something along those lines.

This breeding is nothing more than another expensive doodle as there could be no real reason to cross these two breeds.


----------



## lexa (Mar 30, 2012)

I see. Unfortunately you will not gain any advantages by purchasing a mixed breed over well bred Bernese.


----------



## Otter (Jan 15, 2008)

I'd look at the Greater Swiss Mountain dog first, if you like Berners.
Greater Swiss Mountain Dog

I don't think much at all of the "designer" breeds.


----------



## rileyjo (Feb 14, 2005)

I know a bernerdoodle from the local barkpark. It is the most joyful dog I've ever seen. All happy, all the time.

It looks like a standard poodle with bernie colouring. They paid a fortune for it and it truly is a very pleasant dog.


----------



## Maura (Jun 6, 2004)

lexa said:


> I would argue that there is hybrid vigor in Doodle crosses but it is not expressed in heath, it is expressed in growth like in classical between breed crossing of cattle, rabbits and chickens. You get a bigger animal when you cross different breeds, like Cornish Rock broilers, for example they are huge but not healthy. With berns and poodles having many osteopathic problems to begin with it would only be worse in larger mix.
> .


That is not a hybrid. It is still breeding a dog to a dog. Let's use the right terminology, even if it is becoming commonly popular not to. A hybrid is a mix of two different animals. A horse and a donkey. Crossing cattle with cattle or chickens with chickens for size, or any other reason is a study in genetics, but not a hybrid.


----------



## oregon woodsmok (Dec 19, 2010)

If you like the look of a Bernese Mountain dog and want to try another breed, I suggest a tri-color Australian Shepherd. The look is much the same and the dog should live a lot longer, as long as you buy from a serious hobby fancier and breeder of the Australian Shepherd who does alot of pedigree research and all the health testing.


----------



## Haven (Aug 16, 2010)

I stopped working with large breed clients, in part, to avoid all the cursed "Doodle" Poodle mixes because the owners are so mis-informed that they end up neglecting their coat care. I thought I was done with that battle.

Now clients are going out and buying "Miniature" ones, and bringing me those instead... Ahhhhhhh! I'm ----ed either way... I give up.


----------



## Wolf Flower (Dec 21, 2005)

lexa said:


> Berns( and goldens) are double coated breeds. Poodles on other hand have extended active hair growth stage that is why they do not drop their coats seasonally . When you combine the two you end up with the dog that has double coat with extended active growth stage in outercoat and that drops undercoat seasonaly, that means that undercoat will be getting tangled in in outer coat.


Exactly!! And it seems that the 'doodle people are anti-grooming. They tend to like the shaggy-dog look as opposed to the Poodle look, but don't realize that long hair=lots of maintenace, and they think that clipping the coat will make the dog look like a Poodle. I remember reading some website that said a 'doodle's coat is non-matting and low-maintenance. (?!?) 



> I would argue that there is hybrid vigor in Doodle crosses but it is not expressed in heath, it is expressed in growth like in classical between breed crossing of cattle, rabbits and chickens. You get a bigger animal when you cross different breeds, like Cornish Rock broilers, for example they are huge but not healthy. With berns and poodles having many osteopathic problems to begin with it would only be worse in larger mix.


You are right in the sense that fast growth tends to exacerbate bone and joint issues in large breeds, but I wouldn't call that "hybrid vigor". You could call it that, but it's not technically correct, and I'm kind of hung up on correct terminology.  I don't like the use of the term when breeding dogs because it makes a mutt sound like something more exotic than it really is, and BYBs take advantage of that.


----------

