# Introducing two mature LGD's



## redgate (Sep 18, 2008)

We have an 18 month old (so not totally mature) LGD, and she is incredible. We are about to move to more acreage, and for several reasons, decided to get another LGD. As recommended, we were looking for a puppy under 4 months to make the introductions easier, but as it turns out, someone is giving us a full sister to our current dog. We love our dog's genetics, so this is an answer to prayer for us. We have checked her out as thoroughly as we can. The sister, is from a later litter, so she is only 12 months old. Both dogs are working dogs. Neither dog is "aggressive" by nature, but definitely protective of their herds. Both dogs are familiar with and accepting of family pet dogs. I am picking her up tomorrow. What is the best way to introduce these 2, in a way that will prevent bickering and rivalries, or feelings that each other is a threat? FTR, our 18 month old IS spayed. The 12 month old is not. Any suggestions from someone who has gone through this process with LGD's would be greatly appreciated!


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## Judy in IN (Nov 28, 2003)

Wow! Good luck!

I once had two female GPs. One was 6 months older than the other. When the younger one reached six months old, there was a fight. Luckily, the older female was timid, so no blood.

I have Anatolians now. I haven't tried to put two mature animals together. Just prepare yourself; there will be a fight somewhere along the way. They have to establish who will be the dominant female. You've spayed the older female, so she's lost face already. 

You might keep the second dog in a separate pen until she gets used to your place, but eventually they will fight. Maybe spay both?


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## mekasmom (Jan 19, 2010)

It's too bad the sibling wasn't a male instead of another female. It is difficult to introduce another adult female into a family with an existing one. I predict food fights on a regular basis.


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## BarbadosSheep (Jun 27, 2011)

That is going to be pretty tough and be prepared that it may never work. I have two intact males but they are the same age and were raised together. When they were younger they often battled, but never hurt each other (no blood, just a lot of noise). Now they get along beautifully. Fights between females are usually much worse. You are going to have to supervise them and also decide how much you let them fight things out (for dominance) before you intervene. I do not believe you can teach them to not fight. This will have to be something they settle between themselves. If they establish dominance early without hurting each other, it may work ok.


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## hercsmama (Jan 15, 2004)

I have no personal experience with two female Pyrs. But researched breeds for two years before we got our two dogs. We went with a brother/sister pair for just the reasons sited above. Everything I read indicated that females tend to be much more dominant. I can tell you that with our two Maggie is definitely the dominant, more aggressive one. Poor Murphy is like the house gimp. 
Good luck, and take it slowly on putting them together.


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## mekasmom (Jan 19, 2010)

GP are territorial over food. It's just a breed trait or something. And putting two adult females together will really bring on more territorial issues. I would really suggest you don't try to use a communal food bowl.


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## BarbadosSheep (Jun 27, 2011)

another issue with two females is even if one does allow the other one to be the dominate one, there still may be a coupe stewing in the mind of the subordinate girl. She may stew about it for years, waiting for her chance. When the dominate one gets sick or lame, the subordinate girl may rear up and take her place as dominate girl. and that could be a very ugly scene.


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## redgate (Sep 18, 2008)

Everything I've read seemed to imply having at least one of the females spayed made it more doable. We also do NOT use a communal food bowl. We actually feed twice a day, and we humans carry the food. On busy or freezing days, it may be the only real interaction with have with our girl, and we want her to always remember WE are alpha when we are around. She has to be respectful and wait patiently while even my 4 year old sets her food down. It will also be one of the first lessons we teach the newcomer. Here's my current plan: Sounds like introducing them in adjoining pens may be the best way. There is a strand of hot wire on each side of the shared fence line, which should hopefully help prevent too much from getting nasty. Guess I can only try and hope for the best. Although it is a large pen, it is not 100% escape proof. My current LGD never tries to escape, but she has had time to learn to respect the fence. So I am considering keeping the girl on a cable attached to the shelter to teach her this is the area she should stay. When I am there to supervise and work with them, she will get off the cable. When they seem to do OK across the fence from each other, I'm thinking of introducing them, on leashes with different people holding each leash. Work our way up to a walk around the property together. If all goes well, turn my current girl loose in our larger fenced pasture, while I walk the newbie around the border. If that goes well, over a few days, eventually, I will turn them both loose in the pasture WITHOUT any livestock. Hopefully that will prevent them from feeling like they have to protect the stock from the other, and let them focus on getting to know each other. If that goes well, then I'll start working on introducing the newbie in with the stock. That's the plan, I guess. We'll see where it gets us. 

I am really praying the fact that they are only 12 and 19 months will work to our benefit. I am hoping the fact my current one is spayed will take at least 1/2 the hormones out of the picture anyway ;-) Cross your fingers, and let's hope for the best.


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## CottageLife (Jul 20, 2009)

I don't have Pyr's, but have 2 females and we foster dogs - more females than males it seems. Usually things work ok. The fact that your girl is already spayed is great, and that you feed seperately twice a day will really help too. Teach the new girl where her bowl will go and make it at least 10 feet from your current girl if you can.

We used to introduce a new dog by taking them for a walk on neutral territory together. This may not be the right advice for you giving they are working dogs, but I thought I'd throw it out there in case you think it may help. I wouldn't introduce them when your current girl is guarding, like you said. 

Don't be nervous, they'll feed off of it. Hopefully things go just fine. Good luck!


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## Maura (Jun 6, 2004)

The older dog may see the new one as a threat, not to her "rank", but to her herd. Introduce them on neutral territory, then walk them home, if this is possible. Keep the new one away from the livestock for a while so the old girl develops a trust of her.


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## redgate (Sep 18, 2008)

After observing the new dog in her home environment and putting her through some simple tests, I agreed to bring her home. The new dog is home now, and I was thrilled to see my resident LGD NOT happy to see an outsider dog. Also good to see, though, was how quickly she respected my command to "Enough!" and stopped barking when told. I have only introduced them through a fence at this point. So far I have observed that my current girl is clearly going to want to be alpha, and the new girl is quite submissive it seems. The biggest problem I encountered today was that the new girl was clearly VERY insecure in her totally new surroundings (new people, new animals, and even 12 inches of snow on the ground when her old place had none). My current dog continually perceived her as a threat, even though she curled up in the shed and refused to come out. On a whim, I "borrowed" a mild-mannered doe from my resident girl and put her in the pen with the newbie. She was nervous at first, but the doe seemed to be familiar territory for her. I brought in a second one after a while, and the dog began to come to life. Now every time I check on her, she seems to already be appreciating the company of the goats, and they have taken to her as well. Which is interesting, because they don't care at all for my incredibly mild-mannered house dog. It's as if they sense this girl is a protector. My resident girl wasn't too happy about "her" goats being over there with the newbie, but I have spent a lot of time going between pens, loving and petting on both girls, and slowly but surely, the newbie seems to be building some courage, and the older girl seems to be accepting that she isn't hurting her goats. It is going to be intimidating introducing them without a fence between, for sure. I will absolutely be waiting for hubby to hold one leash for that intro!! I have to confess it is fascinating to see my resident girl really defending her charges against an outsider--I haven't had the opportunity to see much as she does such a great job keeping animals off our property that we never have outsiders come around. These dogs are incredible, and I just pray I can make this union work!


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## Rock (Jan 5, 2009)

Since there are two of you, can you arrange to let them meet somewhere on neutral ground. So the dog in residence does not have to feel the need to project her roll as protector.
Good luck


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## Maura (Jun 6, 2004)

It takes two weeks or longer for a new dog to settle in and show their true colors. Don't be too sure that the old dog will remain "alpha" or that she is being alpha now. I don't think rank is coming into play at all yet.


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## redgate (Sep 18, 2008)

Wouldn't you know it....hubby's work schedule changed a bit, and he will be essentially useless at helping with the dogs. So, it was up to me. As of this morning, the resident, Athena, was showing more curiosity and interest in the new comer than anything. She seemed totally fine with watching her and the goats, and they even ate breakfast on opposite sides of a fence but within a few feet of each other with no threats of any sort (neither have ever had competition or reason to feel their food was threatened, so there are no bad habits to break at this point!). So, after morning chores, based on their signals, I decided it was time for the next step. 

I tied the new girl to a tree on a long leash, and I leashed up my other girl. Goats were removed so there was nothing to protect, and girls were on fairly neutral ground, considering. Athena hackled up and growled, but quickly backed down on my command. I petted both girls, and continued working with them for about 15 minutes, before they seemed ready to release the new girl (but I kept a firm grip on the 14 ft. leash on Athena). I worked another 15 minutes or so at playing, loving, praising, etc., and all seemed well. They would sit side by side as I scratched on both of them, and there seemed to be no threat. So, I dropped Athena's leash, but left it attached to her in case I needed to pull her away from the new girl. The made a few sniffing circles of each other, but neither ever offered to fight. I kept offering distraction and pets at regular intervals. I did notice that Athena would always try to position herself between the new girl and me, though, so I finally left the pen (about 45 minutes after the initial intro). At that point, they sniffed each other a few times, walked to opposite ends of the pen, laid down, and totally pretended the other didn't exist. I decided to go inside and watch out the window. For almost 2 hours, they completely ignored each other! 

After about 2 hours, I decided to go ahead and bump it up a notch to encourage some play. I leashed both girls up, and we went for a little walk together. No troubles there, so we headed over to our acre-and-a-half fenced pasture. I turned the girls loose, but left Athena's leash on, again, just in case. The leash wound serving only to annoy and distract Athena from her normal romping, so after she seemed to offer no threat to the newbie, I removed her leash, petted both girls, and walked out of the pasture. Athena immediately (finally!) ran over to the new girl of her own accord, they sniffed a bit, and then parted ways. New girl (Iris) started to explore the pasture, Athena always keeping an eye on her, but otherwise fine. All was well for about 20 minutes, when Iris encountered our electric netting around the chickens. She wasn't doing anything wrong, but I guess between her proximity to the chickens at the same time she yelped from the shock, it sent Athena into protective mode. I controlled myself to see what would happen, and Athena ran at top speed, across the pasture, and just slammed right into Iris. Poor girl. I think it knocked her about 10 feet. Next thing I knew, both girls were on their hind legs battling it out. Based on the few things I read though, this was inevitable, and I closely watched as I prepared to go in. Turns out, I'm pretty sure Athena was the only one vocalizing, and it clearly was only a fight to put Iris in her place. Although teeth were bared, they were not contacting anything. So, I went into the pasture, and calmly, but firmly called both girls. Iris immediately backed down, which then caused Athena to back down and run over to me. I praised both girls for coming, and sent them on their way again. Over the next 15-20 minutes, Athena never let Iris out of her sight. They had a couple other quick spats, usually resulting in Athena growling and placing her front feet on Iris' back (clearly a show of dominance, but no outright aggression). Iris always backed down. I left and figured I would get some donkey-grooming time in while watching from a distance. After another half hour, Athena was ready to play. She romped and jumped and circled around Iris, making little puppy "play with me" yips. Poor Iris acted as though she had no clue what Athena wanted! I'm not sure she has ever played with anyone but goats before! 

They have now been out to pasture for several hours. I keep a watch out the window, occasionally go out to say hi and pet on them. They seem to be doing well, Athena seems totally comfortable, and has allowed Iris to start going off on her own in the pasture. Iris still seems pretty lost, sadly, but at least she seems to be attaching to the goats and to me. 

I know this isn't over yet, and I still have some work to do for awhile. I'm pleased so far, though, and think things are going very well. I've gotta tell you, though, these LGD are sure a different ball game! I have been a dog trainer for many years, working with service dogs, rescue dogs, and teaching obedience classes. I have taught several dog-aggressive dogs to be more accepting and tolerant of other dogs. I have never spent DAYS introducing them though! And that is definitely the first fight I have experienced with MY dogs. I find the dynamics fascinating, honestly, and the instincts to protect just incredible! Yet, these same dogs will then turn around a split second later and be the friendliest, happiest, most gentle creatures with my children. It is truly fascinating to see this all at work!!


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## tracerracer (Oct 6, 2012)

Excellent start, good for you...........( and the acknowledgment that this is the 'start' and not the 'finish' is right on the money) The best of luck to you and your girls ( btw, pictures at ANY time would be good too :thumb: )


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## redgate (Sep 18, 2008)

Here is my first attempt at photos on here; hopefully it works: My resident girl has the more tan face, while the new girl has the "fluffy" Great Pyr look to her. They are full sisters from different litters, but 3/4 GP and 1/4 Anatolian Shepherd, so genetics can be a little fun.


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## tracerracer (Oct 6, 2012)

They are beauties, I wish you the best of luck (and THANKS for the pictures  )


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## Rock (Jan 5, 2009)

That sounds like a really good start, I have learned over the years not to put my hands in when they are fighting.


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## redgate (Sep 18, 2008)

SUCCESS!! Just another update....I'm so excited that things seem to be going great! I separated the girls again last night, along with their "assigned" goats to guard. Iris, the newbie, barked a bit more last night, so she is definitely feeling more territorial. This morning, I put both girls out to pasture again, and they immediately stood on their hind legs, with their paws on each others' shoulders, bared their teeth, and stared each other down. I called them off, both got down, and then they both began romping and playing in the snow! Guess something was worked out in the quick moment of competition they had. They ran and chased and tussled in the snow for a good 30 minutes. I was afraid Iris was gonna have a stroke since she is pretty out of shape! After a while, I introduced the goats for the first time with both girls together. Not a problem. Then, a few minutes later, something set the chickens into a frenzy (chickens are in portable netting inside the big pasture, so still separate, but able to be guarded). Athena and Iris both ran at top speed across the pasture, and then parted ways and began to check the perimeter of the chicken fence. It was so neat to watch them work together like that! At this rate, they will be spending their first night together tonight as a "family" of 2 LGDs and the goats.

Anyway, I think you all are the only ones that understand the excitement, so I figure I'll just update here. Thanks for listening! Here's a pic from this morning. Iris is on the left, and the resident, Athena, is on the right with her eyes closed. They were pretty worn out from all the play.
View attachment 5405


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## tracerracer (Oct 6, 2012)

redgate said:


> SUCCESS!! Just another update....I'm so excited that things seem to be going great! I separated the girls again last night, along with their "assigned" goats to guard. Iris, the newbie, barked a bit more last night, so she is definitely feeling more territorial. This morning, I put both girls out to pasture again, and they immediately stood on their hind legs, with their paws on each others' shoulders, bared their teeth, and stared each other down. I called them off, both got down, and then they both began romping and playing in the snow! Guess something was worked out in the quick moment of competition they had. They ran and chased and tussled in the snow for a good 30 minutes. I was afraid Iris was gonna have a stroke since she is pretty out of shape! After a while, I introduced the goats for the first time with both girls together. Not a problem. Then, a few minutes later, something set the chickens into a frenzy (chickens are in portable netting inside the big pasture, so still separate, but able to be guarded). Athena and Iris both ran at top speed across the pasture, and then parted ways and began to check the perimeter of the chicken fence. It was so neat to watch them work together like that! At this rate, they will be spending their first night together tonight as a "family" of 2 LGDs and the goats.
> 
> Anyway, I think you all are the only ones that understand the excitement, so I figure I'll just update here. Thanks for listening! Here's a pic from this morning. Iris is on the left, and the resident, Athena, is on the right with her eyes closed. They were pretty worn out from all the play.
> View attachment 5405


EXCELLENT, so happy for you  .......... ( the 'girls' look relaxed and happy, THAT is a great thing) Love that they worked as a team, I suspect there will be 'issues' in time, but hopefully none will be 'serious'..............


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## Maura (Jun 6, 2004)

Athena and Iris, love the names.

While reading your post #14 I wondered if you had trained animals, you are clearly aware of signals and "possibilities". 

I guess that you aren't into the new theories put out by the _experts_ that there is no such thing as dominance or hierarchy with dogs.

Great job!


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## redgate (Sep 18, 2008)

hmmm, I haven't heard that theory, but I would disagree for sure. Whether you want to call it dominance, heirarchy, whatever, it applies to all mammals that I'm familiar with, anyway. Horses, cows, dogs, cats, even people. EVery group must have a leader, and if a leader is removed, another is supplied. Even in a group of laying hens, it has been noted that a single, more dominant hen will take over as leader and protector, making decisions, etc. Shoot sometimes, they even try to crow to announce their status (I haven't heard it personally, but apparently it is quite a pitiful sound!). It is common to work with horses who may behave beautifully with one person, but horribly with another. Most of the time, it behaves in the presence of a more dominant, knowledgable rider who it respects as a leader, but will test and act up for a rider it knows to be weak. 

When I trained both dogs and horses, my main rule is that I would not train unless I could train the owner as well. I would teach the initial lesson to the animal to get it over the "hump" and to demonstrate the desired response to the owner. Then I'd send the owner and horse or dog with "homework" to work on for the week. These days, I won't even work with an animal if, after 2-3 sessions, there is no improvement. I can tell pretty quickly if they are doing their homework. It just doesn't do any good for me to waste my time training. I know I can get the response but if the owner isn't willing to establish themself as the leader, all the training in the world won't improve the animal _for the owner._ Hope that makes sense and answers your question (on my belief, anyway).


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## aart (Oct 20, 2012)

Great story redgate, Congrats!


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## aart (Oct 20, 2012)

redgate said:


> ......unless I could train the owner as well........


It's so sad to see a dog with owners that can't be trained because they have no clue they need to be trained. Too many 'good' dogs with 'bad' owners.


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## Maura (Jun 6, 2004)

I go to a dog forum where any hint of dominance is trashed. Like, I'd suggest if your dog is snapping at the children, don't let him sleep in your bed with you anymore. Well, that just smacks of dominance theory and hierarchy. So, don't try it for one night because it is dominance theory. Don't use a long line to exercise your dog (changing direction unexpectedly, not letting him pull you) because that is cruel and is dominance theory. Throwing the baby out with the bath water.

If you have ever observed animals that live in any kind of group, there is some sort of ranking. There has to be ranking so that the older animals can protect and teach the younger ones. Although I still stand by my post #13 that there were other issues going on.

If you wrote a blog on your animal training adventures I would be interested in reading it.


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## Rock (Jan 5, 2009)

redgate said:


> I know I can get the response but if the owner isn't willing to establish themself as the leader, all the training in the world won't improve the animal _for the owner._


 This makes perfect sense to me 100%.
As for the goobers that think there is no pack, hierarchy in dogs, well ya cant fix stupid *even with duct tape*:gaptooth:
Glad your dogs are coming along so well.


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## redgate (Sep 18, 2008)

@Maura, 

I don't have an animal-training blog specifically, but we do have a family blog that has a hodge-podge of everything. You'll have to wade through the kiddo and family stuff, but I do have a lot of posts regarding the way we raise and work with our animals, how we use nutrition to avoid illness, etc. There are category tabs on the right of the page that will help you narrow it down to your interests. Feel free to take a look!
www.redgatefarm.wordpress.com

As far as the dogs...they are doing awesome. They never even bicker anymore. They can eat side by side out of their own bowls (my kids even feed them), and live together full time now. The only real issue we're having now is the new girl who barks at EVERYTHING! It's funny how the older girl has almost stopped barking except for a real threat. It's like she has just handed off the barking to the newbie, who is happy to bark enough for both! I suspect a lot of it is just her not knowing when to stop and still acclimating to our area. The previous owner said she hardly ever barked (then again, she was in a solid-sided privacy-type fence). For example, the old girl used to bark at the resident fox if it came within a certain proximity of the pen, but she wouldn't bother barking if it stayed far enough away. The new girl barks if she sees or smells it anywhere--even on the neighbors property. That's gonna take a little work. I have had 2 sleepless nights this week from her barking (a lot of fox and coyote activity lately), and it's tough because I know she's doing her job, but there comes a point where she needs to stop. She is learning to stop when told, though, so I'll give her credit for that. This morning (at 3 a.m.) was her best yet, as I didn't even walk out to the dog/goat yard. I just walked out on the porch and yelled, "Iris, quiet!" And she did. I haven't heard her bark since. That's serious progress for her. In any case, the girls play almost non-stop, so I think the goats are quite relieved to have a break from Athena's previous antics. Both dogs's fur is now almost sticky and crusty from the continual drool it receives through their play. Kinda funny, and definitely doesn't encourage extra petting ;-) I think they are enjoying life, and things are so far working exactly as I'd hoped.


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## redgate (Sep 18, 2008)

@Maura, 

I don't have an animal-training blog specifically, but we do have a family blog that has a hodge-podge of everything. You'll have to wade through the kiddo and family stuff, but I do have a lot of posts regarding the way we raise and work with our animals, how we use nutrition to avoid illness, etc. There are category tabs on the right of the page that will help you narrow it down to your interests. Feel free to take a look!
www.redgatefarm.wordpress.com

As far as the dogs...they are doing awesome. They never even bicker anymore. They can eat side by side out of their own bowls (my kids even feed them), and live together full time now. The only real issue we're having now is the new girl who barks at EVERYTHING! It's funny how the older girl has almost stopped barking except for a real threat. It's like she has just handed off the barking to the newbie, who is happy to bark enough for both! I suspect a lot of it is just her not knowing when to stop and still acclimating to our area. The previous owner said she hardly ever barked (then again, she was in a solid-sided privacy-type fence). For example, the old girl used to bark at the resident fox if it came within a certain proximity of the pen, but she wouldn't bother barking if it stayed far enough away. The new girl barks if she sees or smells it anywhere--even on the neighbors property. That's gonna take a little work. I have had 2 sleepless nights this week from her barking (a lot of fox and coyote activity lately), and it's tough because I know she's doing her job, but there comes a point where she needs to stop. She is learning to stop when told, though, so I'll give her credit for that. This morning (at 3 a.m.) was her best yet, as I didn't even walk out to the dog/goat yard. I just walked out on the porch and yelled, "Iris, quiet!" And she did. I haven't heard her bark since. That's serious progress for her. In any case, the girls play almost non-stop, so I think the goats are quite relieved to have a break from Athena's previous antics. Both dogs's fur is now almost sticky and crusty from the continual drool it receives through their play. Kinda funny, and definitely doesn't encourage extra petting ;-) I think they are enjoying life, and things are so far working exactly as I'd hoped.


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## jjstephens (Mar 8, 2013)

What a great thread! 

My two year-old Anatolian/GPs are full sisters (litter mates).l They get along great most of the time but they do still quarrel from time to time. They both try to dominate--and usually succeed for a day or two--then the other takes over. One has a good 10 lbs on the other but the smaller still manages to dominate about half the time. They are super protective of their food dish--which we keep a good 8-10' apart.


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## motdaugrnds (Jul 3, 2002)

What a great thread! Thanks Redgate for sharing your experiences with us.

I've had similar situations with 2 of a kind many, many years ago when I was raising German Shepherds. I learned a great deal of training is for the owner to understand the dog(s) being trained. A certain look or movement of the head, even a slight stiffening of the body tells its own story if the owner is sensitive enough.

I enjoy working with dogs (also with my dairy goats as I trained my large 250 lb Nubian herd buck to help me up hills); and I have considered getting two female "puppies" to train to guard my little 6-acre homestead. However, I have come to the conclusion that, thoush I am still sensitive to "all" my animals, my age (72 yr old female) would be a deterrant to proper training of 2 at a time. So, I've decided on a single guardian pup.

Your story was so uplifting and reminded me of the good times when I was younger. Thanks again for sharing.


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## redgate (Sep 18, 2008)

Glad I could help  

We had the most beautiful weather today that we've had in 5 months! It was 69*, sunny, the snow was melting, and I just could not stay inside. I decided to take the opportunity to work with the goats on leash and teach them some manners (not pulling!), review manners with the donkey yearling who has gotten a bit rowdy over the winter, and I spent several hours grooming the dogs. Considering I have only really intensively groomed Athena 2 or 3 times in her life, and Iris was never groomed before I got her, both girls did exceptional. Their temperaments never fail to amaze me. Once they realize what I wanted and expected from them, they just laid their on the driveway while I worked out some mats, checked them over good, clipped their nails, brushed, and finally washed their ears. I know the "facts" of GP's shedding off their coats, but I always enjoy an occasional thorough grooming to really get to check on my dogs' welfare. It's a chance to check for ticks, sores, hotspots, overgrown nails, or any other issue that might arise, and I feel it is great for reminding the dog that I am alpha and she must submit to the grooming even if it isn't entirely pleasant the whole time. Of course, I usually keep a few treats handy. A little bribery never hurts, right?! In any case, now they are all fluffy and look twice as white as they did.


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## BackfourtyMI. (Sep 3, 2007)

Thank you so much redgate for sharing your journey with your dogs. I've really enjoyed it.
Both of your girls are beautiful & I'm so glad they are working so well together & sound like becoming the best of friends.


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## anita_fc (May 24, 2008)

Maura and Redgate, so excited to meet you! I am another long time dog trainer who has lived with "packs" of dogs for decades. When I hear the PhD-types trashing pack dynamics as if it doesn't apply to dogs, I can only think they have never experienced a pack.

Iris still looks "puppy". So happy it is all working out for you. The girls are beautiful. I also had to smile about your comments about these dogs being so different. After teaching public obedience classes for many years, I thought I had a fair amount of knowledge about GPs. First thing I learned is that you never see what they are really like in such a short snapshot of class time. Our LGDs (Pyrs and Akbash Dogs) have taught me so much.

Please keep us posted!

Anita
Dan-Ani Pygmy Goats, Idaho


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## redgate (Sep 18, 2008)

Iris is still puppy, and I'm really hoping some of that incredible fur is possibly a little "puppy-coat" left over. If not, oh, boy!! It took me twice as long to do half as much on her than Athena the other day. I love Athena's fur--so easy to care for. Iris is definitely a bit more GP with a coat so thick I can hardly find her skin!


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