# School me on the AR



## Bubbas Boys

I am looking for a little more of a rifle for our homestead. Only have a .22 mag now. Looking at .223 after shooting a buddys mini 14. What ar ( if any) can I get for the $500-600 range. What should I know about them? What should I avoid? Not new to guns or shooting but usually shoot bolt or lever actions. School me please! !


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## oldasrocks

I'd buy a good lever action 30-30. Semi autos are over rated. I prefer a Marlin because of the nose weight but wish I could afford a Henry.

Find a good reloader in the area and you can vary the loads to your need. One guy reloaded some of mine, heating them up to 2600 with a 115 grain bullet. Shoots flat out to 200 yards. Factory is 1980 with 158 grain bullet.


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## GREENCOUNTYPETE

you can get several ARs or at least the parts for 500-600 actually I haven't built one over 6 yet 

my recommendation find your self some one selling Anderson lowers locally they should be 50-75 dollars depending on market conditions 

then you buy a PSA rifle kit 

PSA is Palmetto State Armory they make a decent procut for a fair price watch the sales 

barrels A2 profile is fine , Melonite , stainless , chrome lined are all good the chrome lining tends to come at a cost premium but hey can be found 

rifle kits tend to run 399 to 450 to get started with a decent setup maybe a little more if you want a free float tube or different furniture 


a good build video [ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p8sY5CQmlHI"]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p8sY5CQmlHI[/ame]

when you install the bolt catch roll pin use painters tape to cover that side of the receiver to avoid marring the finish , I also prefer to start the pin with a roll pin starter punch it is a punch with a hole in the end that the pin fits into put a dab of grease on the end of the rol pin and insert in the roll pin starter punch and the roll pin will stay in it while you line it up and start tapping when your about 1/2 way in use a regular roll pin punch

when your ready for a better trigger get the hardened and polished trigger group and a set of wolf springs to get it down around 3 pounds 

if your looking to take larger game go 300 black out , the only thing that changes is the barrel between 223 and 300 blackout , the 300 gets you 30-30 velocities but with pointed bullets that retain energy better at distance making it more of a 200 yard gun 

old as a rock I like my 30-30 but I will take an AR out in the rain because in 2 minutes I have the hole thing apart in laying on a towel on the dining room table drying out and in 5 more once it is dry and wiped down with oil it is all back together.

every time I take that marlin apart it is at least a 40 minute project

levers are fun but a real pain to clean

I took an 8 point buck with the 223 AR this season one shot short run of about 20 yards and it was down bullet selection and placement is important , you need a bullet tough enough to get out the other side varmint ammo will take deer just fine with good shot placement but you can expect it to not exit the far side a bullet manufactured for deer should get you an exit. the cool part is there is so little recoil you can watch the deer through the scope while it is hit.
slip through the ribs for a double lung shot when quartering away , a neck shot or a high shoulder.

a friend took 2 deer with his 300 blackout AR and 125 gr bullets they both went down on the spot I was impressed enough with what the 300 did that I ordered one for myself I don't need range where I hunt but a little extra weight to ensure an exit wound is welcome


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## gundog10

You kind of gave an open ended question, but I'll give my .02. I've been shooting AR15s/M-16 for 42 years. First in 1975 USMC and after with two federal law enforcement agencies. Keep them well oiled and clean now and again and they will go bang every time. As GCP just said they are very simple to break down and clean. Accuracy wise, most will shoot better then you can shoot. I built four just prior to the election with three different barrels ( all PSA). With good glass they all shot 1-11/2 moa at 100 yards and the two FN CHF barreled AR15 shot 1 inch and sub moa. My family and I ran through 700 rounds that day. PSA is having some pretty good sales right now and you can buy a completed lower and complete upper from them just don't forget to get a charging handle and bolt carrier group with the upper. For $600 you will get better quality for your money with PSA then a off the shelf AR for the same price.


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## Bubbas Boys

Ok. Been watching build videos for last 2 hours. Think I would like to try it. How do I know I am getting the "good" parts to make building it a better value vs buying off shelf? Thanks!!


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## Texaspredatorhu

Buy a kit from palmetto state armory they had them on sale for 360 less a lower usually they hang out at 400 for the kits and then buy a lower at a local gun shop. You can build on the cheap or you can go all out and use high dollar components and generally get the exact same results as a 1500 AR! The important part is reliability! Should you choose to go the AR 10 route buy the same brand upper and lower. They have not standardized like the 15. I prefer yankee hill and xcaliber barrels, most lowers are built by aero and have a different name on them. Keep them oiled and they will go all day. I had a bushmaster varminter with a 24" stainless bull and I shot over 1000 rounds through it in a day. Only issue was carbon build up on bolt where firing pin drops in and I got some light strikes. Other than keeping it clean and oiled there aren't any major concerns. Get a 5.56 or 223 Wylde chamber over a R.E.M. 223.


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## GREENCOUNTYPETE

I suggest people just get the PSA lower parts kit or buy the whole gun as a kit you will get everything you need , but the stripped lower receiver , the only thing you may want is an oops kit this is the springs specifically the rear breakdown detente spring is easy to kink when trying to get the end palate on and the buffer plunger spring as it is most likely to shoot across the room. that kit is https://www.midwayusa.com/product/225996/ar-stoner-ar-15-lower-receiver-pin-and-spring-parts-kit 9.99 and includes all of the small parts you could loose and a set of pins


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## Texaspredatorhu

GREENCOUNTYPETE said:


> I suggest people just get the PSA lower parts kit or buy the whole gun as a kit you will get everything you need , but the stripped lower receiver , the only thing you may want is an oops kit this is the springs specifically the rear breakdown detente spring is easy to kink when trying to get the end palate on and the buffer plunger spring as it is most likely to shoot across the room. that kit is https://www.midwayusa.com/product/225996/ar-stoner-ar-15-lower-receiver-pin-and-spring-parts-kit 9.99 and includes all of the small parts you could loose and a set of pins


Couldn't agree more


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## beowoulf90

If you don't want to build one, just look around at the shops in your area.
I found a complete upper for $360 not including PA taxes and found a Bushmaster lower for $140 not including taxes. 
I had to buy a rear sight (magpul) cost another $50. So all together I had $550 into it. 
I already have enough magazines and other accessories, so no costs there..

This is a no thrills, version but it functions flawlessly thus far. I only have about 1000 rounds through this one. 

Anyway, if you aren't in any hurry, and shop around you can find a good set up and then start to put the add-on's you want. 

Now as others have said..
The Henry's & Marlin lever guns are a charm. 
My next long gun will be either a 45-70 on a lever action platform from Henry or Marlin or a 308 on an AR platform. Depends on what I find for the right cost(s) & how much scrap I get hauled..


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## Bubbas Boys

What lower to buy? Forged? Polymer? So many to choose from. Help!! Haha


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## Bubbas Boys

Phosphate? Nitride? Please explain.


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## Bubbas Boys

Mid length? Carbine?


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## Texaspredatorhu

I know here in San Antonio I can get a Anderson arms lower for 70. Mid length and carbine will be your hand guard length and there is also pistol, carbine and rifle gas tube lengths not all that important on 556 unless you intend on loading subsonic and suppressing. Nitride and phosphate are coatings, I usually cerakote so it doesn't make a difference to me. Poly lowers aren't terrible but not many followers of them. FMK arms I believe has one with a lifetime warranty. I have tried on and it went through about 2500 rounds before I sold it and did not have one issue, not really any moving parts but your trigger. My pin holes were still round after all the rounds fired. Want to try one on a 458 socom upper and see what happens. Poly frames/lowers have been used by everyone and the most reliable auto pistol is poly. Aero precision builds a large majority of lowers so it's what name is on the side your paying for. I have always had luck from my Anderson lowers and bushmaster when I find them on sale.


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## GREENCOUNTYPETE

I have built on Anderson and ATI lowers the ATI were made by BCM 

as far as lowers go aluminum coating doesn't much matter 

Polymer are fine but this is your first so keep it simple go aluminum forged

coating is more about the color you like to see than much else. phospate sometimes looks kind of purple in bright light while nitride usually looks black

I like the open bottom trigger guard , as long as you support it well with a deck of cards or block of wood while installing the pin you will be fine. remember lube every pin and hole before install makes them go in easier. I like the Magpul trigger guard as it leaves more room for gloves.

pistol , carbine , mid lenght , rifle these are the leght of the gas tube the distance that the hole in the barrel is drilled to take gas off to run the bolt carrier group. 

Midlenght works well in a 16 inch barrel 5.56/223 so does carbine it is just a matter of how far down the barrel the bullet is before things start moving conventional wisdom is the further down the barrel the bullet is the less effect a moving bolt can have on the bullet.

some people may say I need to ensure 100% cycling under any condition and I am willing to give up .25moa to do it so pull the gas where the pressure is higher.

I have never had a mid-lenght not cycle fine but I have never run one in a SE Asian jungle nor do I intend to.


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## dirtfarmer

I don't comment much on this forum but firearms are my speciality and my life. You have more than enough info here to build an AR. The internet is your friend for building an AR. You get what you pay for with parts or complete weapons - generally. Lately many high dollar AR companies have made some real lemons recently because of stepped up production based on demand which equals lower quality. I've used all the PSA parts in builds several times. PSA has good mid range quality parts for budget builds. I used to build many years ago but stopped for awhile until 2008 and I started building again. I've built dozens of AR's since 08 and bolt guns. Someone here mentioned Levers. Levers are good for general use and all around provided you have the right caliber. The 357s in lever guns are great 100 yard hunters and light defense guns but back to the AR. Some ARs are as accurate as a bolt gun and very dependable if maintained properly. If you are looking purely for defense you will need a quality purchased or built semi-auto rifle in NATO calibers to keep it simple (.556 or 7.62 ) IMO. After over 40 years dealing with the 556 Im not convinced it's the best man stopper but it will slow em down and stop them. It has done its job on humans but you just can't go wrong with a 30 cal platform with all the options out there. The 30's will knock your doo-lolly in the dirt. All this said I will never abandon my 556 ARs. The trade off is weight. The 7.62 x 51's (308) will always weigh more than 556/300 BLK AR platforms. If you decided to go with a 300 BLK (7.62 x 35) platform then you really need to be a reloader or have the money to buy your ammo in bulk. Always have a spare 556 upper ready and waiting with plenty of 556 ammo. Break in your ARs with a minimum of 1000 rounds. Run them wet and dirty for the first several hundred rounds. It actually polishes them in. Worth considering for defense are shotguns. Im a firm believer that you will NEED a quality 12 ga semi-auto or pump defense shotgun (Benelli M2 M4 Nova, Remmy 1187s and 870 Wingmaster pump only, Mossberg 500 series). Do not buy 3"+ buckshot. It's not needed. Get standard 2-3/4" buckshot ammo. More controllable under fire with much less recoil. Make sure all of your defense guns are reliable by shooting them all the time. IF its not reliable then you can't trust your life on it. Dump it and start over. Don't forget a good 9mm or 45 side arm. Forget the .40 cal (10mm) calibers. You will always find 9mm ammo and most likely 45 ammo in hard times. And did I mention something about reloading ammo? I believe all people who wish to be prepared should reload ammo. You can keep it simple but very reliable with a decent single stage press, beam scales, powder dispenser, case trimmer, etc. You can get this stuff almost in new condition on eBay. 95% of my shooting is done with my reloads. Ive never had a squib or bad load since I started in 73. I did throw a double charge once but I caught it immediately. And I shoot a lot. Hope this helps


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## Bubbas Boys

Wow. Great info. Thanks guys!!


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## Bubbas Boys

So a 556 will also shoot .223 correct? Sorry said I am new to these. Haha.


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## Cabin Fever

While we're on the topic, I seem to remember that one type of 5.56 round is better for a specific barrel twist over another....if that makes sense.

We have two Colt ARs, one with 1:7 twist and the other 1:12 twist. We have two types of 5.56 NATO ammo: XM855 and XM193. We've shot both types of ammo in both ARs and haven't noticed any difference. But, technically is one ammo better suited for a specific barrel twist?


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## Clayjunky

Bubbas Boys said:


> So a 556 will also shoot .223 correct? Sorry said I am new to these. Haha.



Yes but not the other way around as 5.56 has high pressures than a .223 and slight tolerance differences.


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## Bubbas Boys

The lowers I am looking at say multi cal. Is that correct?


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## Clayjunky

Cabin Fever said:


> While we're on the topic, I seem to remember that one type of 5.56 round is better for a specific barrel twist over another....if that makes sense.
> 
> We have two Colt ARs, one with 1:7 twist and the other 1:12 twist. We have two types of 5.56 NATO ammo: XM855 and XM193. We've shot both types of ammo in both ARs and haven't noticed any difference. But, technically is one ammo better suited for a specific barrel twist?



Nothing to do with the type of ammo, everything to do with the weight /grain of bullet and barrel twist. Your two barrels will fire a 55gr bullet with excellent accuracy, the differences are in the twist rates/weights as heavier bullets are used. The slower the twist rate (1:7 for example) the heavier grain bulletin it will stabilize, such as 77 or up to 90gr. A 1:9 or 1:8 twist will shoot light varmint loads up to 69gr bullets, anything heavier will tumble the bullet and your 1:12 which is designed for varmint loads will handle up 62gr if lucky, that may be too heavy though, stick with 55gr and less and you'll be GTG


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## Clayjunky

Bubbas Boys said:


> The lowers I am looking at say multi cal. Is that correct?




multi cal means you can use it for 556,300BO, 6.5, 6.8 etc.. up to .50 cal Beowulf and of course 223/556, the mags, barrels and BCG are different for other calibers though, I can't put one of my 6.8 rounds in my 556 multi cal lower without switching uppers and mags. Your question also effects barrel, if your barrel is only a .223 it should say it, if the barrel is 556 or Wylde (means both 223/556) you're fine. If for some odd chance you're looking at .223 lowers (much more rare these days) avoid and ensure ya get multi. 

A complete lower from PSA was $129 last week btw- I own a lot of ARs and PSA has great products without breaking your wallet-


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## GREENCOUNTYPETE

Cabin Fever said:


> While we're on the topic, I seem to remember that one type of 5.56 round is better for a specific barrel twist over another....if that makes sense.
> 
> We have two Colt ARs, one with 1:7 twist and the other 1:12 twist. We have two types of 5.56 NATO ammo: XM855 and XM193. We've shot both types of ammo in both ARs and haven't noticed any difference. But, technically is one ammo better suited for a specific barrel twist?



the faster the twist the longer and heavier the bullet it is supposed to be able to stabilize.

the 55gr xm193 should shoot better in the slower twist barrel

the heavier longer xm855 perpetrator should shoot better in the faster twist barrel 

likely unless you add optics and shoot for group size you may not see the difference 

7g isn't a hole lot both 62 and 55 gr bullets are in the middle most barrels shoot them ok 
if you tried an extremely heavy bullet like the 77gr match bullets in each rifle you might see more of a difference 

but you may never see much of a difference at 100 yards and under

slow twist barrels may have been used to optimist bullet yaw on impact with a target if you can't use a soft point try and get the bullet to turn and run base first half way through the target for greater energy transfer.

but as the army wanted to get the 5.56 to deliver more energy at greater range bullets got heavier and longer


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## Hitch

The S&W M&P Sport is probably one of the most inexpensive quality AR-15 you can buy. Obviously, you can build your own as I did but you won't save any money that way. It's more about learning the rifle and configuring it exactly the way you want it.

Good thing you're not in California of you'd be SOL.


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## Texaspredatorhu

Bubbas Boys said:


> The lowers I am looking at say multi cal. Is that correct?


Yes because it can be 223, 5.56, 223 rem, 204 ruger, 6.8 spc, 300 blk, 458 socom, or 50 Beowulf. Probably missed a few but it's listed as multi when bought as just a lower and not assembled.


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## Bubbas Boys

What does the s & w cost?


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## Bubbas Boys

What about PTAC KIT? It is on PSA website..


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## Texaspredatorhu

Clayjunky said:


> Nothing to do with the type of ammo, everything to do with the weight /grain of bullet and barrel twist. Your two barrels will fire a 55gr bullet with excellent accuracy, the differences are in the twist rates/weights as heavier bullets are used. The slower the twist rate (1:7 for example) the heavier grain bulletin it will stabilize, such as 77 or up to 90gr. A 1:9 or 1:8 twist will shoot light varmint loads up to 69gr bullets, anything heavier will tumble the bullet and your 1:12 which is designed for varmint loads will handle up 62gr if lucky, that may be too heavy though, stick with 55gr and less and you'll be GTG


1:7 is fast where 1:12 is slow.


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## Texaspredatorhu

Clayjunky said:


> Yes but not the other way around as 5.56 has high pressures than a .223 and slight tolerance differences.


http://www.luckygunner.com/labs/5-56-vs-223/

Some 556 not all has higher pressure. The difference is because the chamber not usually the ammo. Another big part of it is the LC cases before 2012 had thicker case walls reducing the internal volume. I used to swear up and down on this and I read this awhile back and decided to try it and I had no signs at all of extreme pressures. Not recommending to shoot 556 in 223 by any means but this myth has been busted for the most part.


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## Clayjunky

Texaspredatorhu said:


> 1:7 is fast where 1:12 is slow.



Thanks, I typed the opposite of what I was trying to explain below that point.


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## Clayjunky

Bubbas Boys said:


> What about PTAC KIT? It is on PSA website..



PTAC is their brand, I have had several, good rigs. Outside of paying a FFL transfer fee, you should be able to build a complete rifle for much less than $500. They frequently have complete uppers for $259-279 and lowers for $129-$159. Poly lowers are like Glocks, some people like them some don't, I like them. I have a $1100 Bison 6.8 upper on a $109 NFA poly lower and it's my favorite setup and go to rifle for hogs and deer, swapped much higher end lowers out for the Poly. So, if ya want a $405 complete AR, follow the links below and grab a PSA upper for $199 shipped to your door. Great way to familiarize yourself on a budget and they will easy give you great groups. 

http://palmettostatearmory.com/blem...paign=Daily+Deal+Email&utm_content=5:00+Email

BCG $85

http://palmettostatearmory.com/psa-...aign=Daily+Deal+Email&utm_content=12:00+Email

NFA Lower shipped $119.99 

http://www.joeboboutfitters.com/New_Frontier_Armory_LW_15_Complete_Poly_Lower_p/nfa-lw15blk.htm

There's a million torture test vids out there on NFA. It's personal preference, I have some very high end rigs with premium lowers and some with NFA lowers... the poly is 6oz lighter or so and I've never had a problem. 


[ame]https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=CEAYW_2y4VU[/ame]


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## Clayjunky

Bubbas Boys said:


> What about PTAC KIT? It is on PSA website..



One of my PTAC - I think they'd be great for you starting out. 









The BISON 6.8 on a NFA lower with Stalktech Laser 









This is a Cobratac Competition upper (Guaranteed 1/2" MOA at 200yds- I can't shoot that well to prove the company's promise on a PSA lower 















A custom bull on a Givati upper with PSA MOE SL lower 









Lots of price ranges here ^^^^ but for me, a hunter taking 300yd shots MAX, these all shoot very well for my needs and if you're on a budget, you don't need to dump big bucks. The $405 AR will do ya just fine, IMO


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## Texaspredatorhu

Clayjunky said:


> Thanks, I typed the opposite of what I was trying to explain below that point.


No worries. Just for anyone that's interested Barnes is building a 85 grain bullet that is mag friendly, the 1:7 barrels do good with them


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## Texaspredatorhu

Clayjunky said:


> PTAC is their brand, I have had several, good rigs. Outside of paying a FFL transfer fee, you should be able to build a complete rifle for much less than $500. They frequently have complete uppers for $259-279 and lowers for $129-$159. Poly lowers are like Glocks, some people like them some don't, I like them. I have a $1100 Bison 6.8 upper on a $109 NFA poly lower and it's my favorite setup and go to rifle for hogs and deer, swapped much higher end lowers out for the Poly. So, if ya want a $405 complete AR, follow the links below and grab a PSA upper for $199 shipped to your door. Great way to familiarize yourself on a budget and they will easy give you great groups.
> 
> http://palmettostatearmory.com/blem...paign=Daily+Deal+Email&utm_content=5:00+Email
> 
> BCG $85
> 
> http://palmettostatearmory.com/psa-...aign=Daily+Deal+Email&utm_content=12:00+Email
> 
> NFA Lower shipped $119.99
> 
> http://www.joeboboutfitters.com/New_Frontier_Armory_LW_15_Complete_Poly_Lower_p/nfa-lw15blk.htm
> 
> There's a million torture test vids out there on NFA. It's personal preference, I have some very high end rigs with premium lowers and some with NFA lowers... the poly is 6oz lighter or so and I've never had a problem.
> 
> 
> https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=CEAYW_2y4VU


I think PSA just had a kit for 360 probably out of stock by now but a great deal. I don't understand why some people hate the poly lowers there's no moving parts but the hammer in there, there probably less stress on it than that of a poly pistol and when's the last time anyone heard of a glock frame breaking?


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## Clayjunky

Texaspredatorhu said:


> I think PSA just had a kit for 360 probably out of stock by now but a great deal. I don't understand why some people hate the poly lowers there's no moving parts but the hammer in there, there probably less stress on it than that of a poly pistol and when's the last time anyone heard of a glock frame breaking?



Agreed! It's the culture, IMO many new AR buyers think spending more will make them a better hunter/shooter. Most of us don't burn barrels out or get into extended firefights. A MIL-Spec $400 Poly AR serves most people just fine. I don't get the poly thinking either - Pmags are cool but poly lowers are junk? SMH..


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## Bubbas Boys

So looms like I will need a rear sight and magazines. What do you all recommend?


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## Clayjunky

Bubbas Boys said:


> So looms like I will need a rear sight and magazines. What do you all recommend?



Well...Are you thinking of putting any optics on it or just using iron sights? 

Mags, I'm not a snob, Thermold mags from Sportsmansguide are $8 and work great, E-Lander, actually come to think of it PSA has Pmags for $8 with coupon code, link below. 

http://palmettostatearmory.com/magpul-pmag-30-5-56x45-magazine-mag571-blk.html


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## Texaspredatorhu

Bubbas Boys said:


> So looms like I will need a rear sight and magazines. What do you all recommend?


I have an abundance of 30 rounders from my time in the Marines and a few different brand poly's. Never had issues with either I like my tin mags though! 

If iron sights magpuls mobus or whatever their flip up is called will work and get you shooting. For a 1x magnification "red dot" vortex makes the strike fire for msrp of 239 if your a vet call them and they have a nice surprise in store!


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## Bubbas Boys

I wpod like to put some kind of optics. Looking to shoot coyotes in the timberline behind our house. Maybe 100 yards. What is price range for decent scope? Thanks again for all the help. You guys are the best!!


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## Clayjunky

Texaspredatorhu said:


> I have an abundance of 30 rounders from my time in the Marines and a few different brand poly's. Never had issues with either I like my tin mags though!
> 
> 
> 
> If iron sights magpuls mobus or whatever their flip up is called will work and get you shooting. For a 1x magnification "red dot" vortex makes the strike fire for msrp of 239 if your a vet call them and they have a nice surprise in store!



^^^ All but 3 of my guns have Vortex optics, fantastic-no questions asked lifetime warranty. Primary Arms makes a great red dot too, I also have a Sig micro dot on a 16" .44mag Rossi 92 trapper that's sweet. With the right mount (called see through) you can use both or get offset 45 degree flip ups. Check Amazon, so many magpul imitations with great ratings for $20-$30.


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## Clayjunky

Bubbas Boys said:


> I wpod like to put some kind of optics. Looking to shoot coyotes in the timberline behind our house. Maybe 100 yards. What is price range for decent scope? Thanks again for all the help. You guys are the best!!



The ones we are suggesting are under $250 or so but you can definitely get a good setup cheaper. 

Not a red dot but Here's a great, multi purpose close to mid range scope that if you decide to upgrade, you will






always be able to resell this or use elsewhere. 

https://www.slickguns.com/product/vortex-crossfire-ii-1-4x24mm-v-plex-matte-14999?mobile=true


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## Bubbas Boys

The.PSA lower I am.looking at is only $50. Does.that sound .right?


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## Clayjunky

Bubbas Boys said:


> The.PSA lower I am.looking at is only $50. Does.that sound .right?



No, you're looking at a stripped lower for that price. No lower parts kit, stock, buffer tube, castle nut, etc.. if you truly want to "build" yours it you can get that, but then need all the other components- it will cost you the same or more, plus your labor. Or, get a complete Lower and two pins attach your upper. Installed in 30 seconds. 

See complete ones below. They haven't been $129 for about a year. Good price or a magpul upgrade below that for a little more 

$129 

http://palmettostatearmory.com/psa-...aign=Daily+Deal+Email&utm_content=12:00+Email

$149

http://palmettostatearmory.com/psa-...paign=Daily+Deal+Email&utm_content=5:00+Email


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## Texaspredatorhu

75 or better once you transfer it. May as well find one locally.


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## Texaspredatorhu

PSA still has this in stock as of right now. Just add a lower and optic.


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## Bubbas Boys

Oh ok. The kit I was looking at had lower parts kit so I guess I will keep looki g. Thanks.


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## Bubbas Boys

Cant seem to find the upper that I like the hand grip of as much( just what I have in my mind) besides in the kit with the parts and everything.


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## Clayjunky

Bubbas Boys said:


> Cant seem to find the upper that I like the hand grip of as much( just what I have in my mind) besides in the kit with the parts and everything.



If you found a stripped lower with the LPK for $50 that's a good price. What kind of hand rail ya looking for?


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## Bubbas Boys

Well..... I dont even know what its called. Not real round like the classic looks but not the one with all the little wholes in it. Haha. I am such a rookie.


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## Clayjunky

Bubbas Boys said:


> Well..... I dont even know what its called. Not real round like the classic looks but not the one with all the little wholes in it. Haha. I am such a rookie.



Lol, this? You'll learn it over time, it's great you're interested! This is a Magpul rail, $20 for that chunk of plastic by itself or $20 more for the complete kits, when in stock.


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## Bubbas Boys

Thats it. I am just going by look though. I have never held one. What fo you think?


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## Bubbas Boys

Do they have that in just upper? That way I can buy a complet lower to add to it.


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## Bubbas Boys

So these kits..... are they going to be a better quality AR than you can buy at like Rural king?


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## Clayjunky

Bubbas Boys said:


> Thats it. I am just going by look though. I have never held one. What fo you think?



It's completely aesthetics and a little different "feel" but not much IMO- nothing to do functionality- they're great, I have them The only thing is it takes a little bit more time to put accessories on and you have to buy the same Magpul (or knock off) type accessories style to attach anything to the rail like a flashlight, vertical grip, etc.


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## Clayjunky

Bubbas Boys said:


> Do they have that in just upper? That way I can buy a complet lower to add to it.



I'm looking for you, they absolutely do it's just whether it's in stock or not and are usually 279 to 299


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## Clayjunky

Bubbas Boys said:


> So these kits..... are they going to be a better quality AR than you can buy at like Rural king?



Mil Spec means every component is made to the military standard of tolerances. By definition, everything on a Mil Spec AR is similar. This is where subjectivity, personal preferences, mmodifications, come into play and quality control at the mmanufacturer,the most important variable. These are as good as anything you're going to buy at a retailer featuring name brands for your intended purposes. Listen if you can get a bushmaster for the same price, do it, but you're not going to find one and the differences between the two would be so minute you wouldn't notice the difference. You'll be thrilled with these, look at the ratings, many happy customers


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## Texaspredatorhu

At the end of the day have it cerakoted if you want and no one will ever know. PSA makes decent stuff. Milspec is interchangeable with all other milspec components, at least that's the idea. AR10s do not share that commonality, if you go that route buy same brand upper and lower. If you buy the kit I posted a pic of it has all parts minus a lower and the magpul front end can be had at academy or any other sporting goods store fairly cheap. I have 2 ARs that I built as an experiment 1 is the bottom of the barrel cheapest components I could find, many from CDNN and all in all I think the total build was 390 with lower which is an FMK poly. I built another with the lightest high dollar components and that ran a tallly of 1650. It was a wicked little rifle but the cheaper one shot just as accurately and just as fast! Don't let it fool you as nice as Daniel defense rifles are you can get a 500 dollar rifle perform just as well. If you choose to upgrade later or now and want to buy the high quality parts invest it in the barrel and BCG.


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## Clayjunky

Texaspredatorhu said:


> At the end of the day have it cerakoted if you want and no one will ever know. PSA makes decent stuff. Milspec is interchangeable with all other milspec components, at least that's the idea. AR10s do not share that commonality, if you go that route buy same brand upper and lower. If you buy the kit I posted a pic of it has all parts minus a lower and the magpul front end can be had at academy or any other sporting goods store fairly cheap. I have 2 ARs that I built as an experiment 1 is the bottom of the barrel cheapest components I could find, many from CDNN and all in all I think the total build was 390 with lower which is an FMK poly. I built another with the lightest high dollar components and that ran a tallly of 1650. It was a wicked little rifle but the cheaper one shot just as accurately and just as fast! Don't let it fool you as nice as Daniel defense rifles are you can get a 500 dollar rifle perform just as well. If you choose to upgrade later or now and want to buy the high quality parts invest it in the barrel and BCG.



Agreed^^ I tried a digital camo stencil from Primary Arms on my Kel Tec SU16B, used the Rust-Oleum series of paint and it's been great, cost me $40 total. It doesn't have the long term durability or lubrication properties of cerakote, but for a truck gun it's been great. Easy to do and Primary Arms even has vids showing you how to DYI. 

.


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## Bubbas Boys

Great. Thanks again guys!!


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## Clayjunky

Bubbas Boys said:


> Great. Thanks again guys!!



Here's the MOE but you'll need to buy a stripped lower, $40-$50 and put it all together. They restock weekly and if ya wanna wait for the one you want complete, shouldn't be too long. The 2nd link is the complete one and you can be emailed when back in stock. Good luck ! 


Kit
http://palmettostatearmory.com/psa-...1-7-socom-melonite-moe-rifle-kit-7780444.html


Complete 
http://palmettostatearmory.com/psa-...dom-upper-without-bcg-or-charging-handle.html


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## Bubbas Boys

Good deal. What do I have to get when it says no charging handle or bolt carrier? Looks like most uppers alone say that.


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## Bubbas Boys

You said it is a chunk of plastic that I am ralking about... it there one with metal hand that would be better?


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## Clayjunky

Bubbas Boys said:


> Good deal. What do I have to get when it says no charging handle or bolt carrier? Looks like most uppers alone say that.



I just found this and if it were me, I'd buy this instead of piecing it together, unless that's what you want. Windham Weapontry was founded by the head gunsmiths of Bushmaster, when it was sold off a while back. These are outstanding guns. This one is part carbon fiber, the handgaurd can be swapped out to many different styles. This is a top 10 manufacturer, carbon fiber complete rifle for $465. Hands down, awesome deal. #2 is a Radical Firearms with a nicer 12" hand guard, $475 complete, good company as well, not Windham good though. #3 is a complete Anderson rifle for $450, Also a good rifle, equal to PSA quality. Again, the hand guard can be switched out. If ya want to build yours, certainly go for it and you'll need a BCG and charging handle (BCG=bolt carrier group) currently $85 on PSA- link #4. In sitting here trying to reason why I need that Windham, lol. They are fabulous guns. 

#1
http://www.mrgundealer.com/product....1-m4-orc-ar-15-sa-223556-16-301-6-pos-stk-blk


#2
https://www.classicfirearms.com/radical-firearms-ar-15-fr16-556sp-12fgs-rifle

#3 
http://www.sportsmansguide.com/prod...rbine-556-nato-semi-automatic-rifle?a=1911774

#4
http://palmettostatearmory.com/psa-...aign=Daily+Deal+Email&utm_content=12:00+Email


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## Bubbas Boys

Good deal. Again, thanks so much!! So are they ranked in order of what you would buy, price and value wise?


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## Bubbas Boys

Is 1:9 twist ok for me shooting run of the mill ammo?


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## Clayjunky

Bubbas Boys said:


> Good deal. Again, thanks so much!! So are they ranked in order of what you would buy, price and value wise?



In order of rank, the Anderson is the least expensive and 1:9 twist is awesome, will handle light 50grain varmint loads up to 69 grain with great accuracy. 

55gr FMJ for yotes is plenty, you don't need to spend the big $ on varmint loads. I use cheap, steel cased Wolf 55gr FMJ or Hollow Points on Yotes and they all drop like rocks, if you do your part. 
You're welcome!


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## GunMonkeyIntl

Clayjunky said:


> I just found this and if it were me, I'd buy this instead of piecing it together, unless that's what you want. Windham Weapontry was founded by the head gunsmiths of Bushmaster, when it was sold off a while back. These are outstanding guns. This one is part carbon fiber, the handgaurd can be swapped out to many different styles. This is a top 10 manufacturer, carbon fiber complete rifle for $465. Hands down, awesome deal...


Stay away from the "carbon fiber" ones. They're only a half-step up from garbage. Windham makes a good product, but their "carbon fiber" line is a rebranding of the old Bushmaster Carbon 15 line. After leaving Windham, Bushmaster finally killed it and sold off their interest in the "carbon fiber" upper/lower manufacturing capability. I wasn't aware that Windham had picked it up, but it appears to be the same thing Bushmaster used to make. 

Calling it "carbon fiber" is mostly a marketing ploy. It is actually just polymer, with some carbon bits mixed in. That alone wouldn't necessarily be a bad thing but it isn't a particularly good plastic. The final product is very brittle, and had wide problems with charging handle latch bosses, takedown/hinge pin holes, and receiver extension bridges breaking off.

Also, to make them strong "enough", the upper's barrel nut thread is slightly different than standard, so it requires a different barrel nut, which can limit you options for different handguards down the line. Of course, beefing up this thread did not completely eliminate the upper threads from breaking off sometimes. 

Once you drop your "carbon fiber" (AKA polymer) gun, or get heavy-handed on a field strip, and literally *break* your receiver, what little you saved over one of the low-cost aluminum ones just isn't worth it.


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## Bubbas Boys

How important is it to get a barrel that is chrome lined?


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## Bubbas Boys

Also, even after reading all weekend I am having a hard time deciding between carbine and mid length. Leaning toward mid..???


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## Clayjunky

Bubbas Boys said:


> How important is it to get a barrel that is chrome lined?



It's not important. It's to prevent corrosion and helps keep it clean but it's not necessary. Our military doesn't have chrome lined barrels in the M4 and regular maintenance is all you need to have a barrel that lasts your lifetime with normal use. 

As per carbine and mid length, this is where it may benefit you to go to your local retailer/gun store/pawn and handle some ARs and see what feels right to you. You're talking about a 3 inch difference between carbine and mid hand guards. if you're going to have all those "tacticool" attachments then maybe you want more space, to me it's more aesthetics and is personal preference. 

As per the poly statement above, here's what I can tell you. This is one of those things online that is perpetuated. Glock is made from poly, they been dropped out airplanes, buried for a year, you name it and they still function. Hopefully you clicked the torture tests for poly lowers. Ask yourself if you think a multiple companies would invest millions into research and development, design and manufacturing to have something break while field stripping it or general use. I've never met anyone who had first-hand knowledge of this happening and there may be unique cases that happen (usually from abuse) that become Internet folklore. Glocks are the most widely used firearm globally among law enforcement, made out of polymer. For the extra 20 bucks, perhaps an aluminum lower is wiser, my point is if you're on a budget, don't think twice about them. The torture tests vids below. 

http://www.lw15.com


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## Texaspredatorhu

The military actually does do chrome lining. Some claim it will affect the accuracy over a non-lined but it was never a big deal to me. Melonite is the latest and greatest in AR barrels that I have seen. I have a YHM that is melonite and it's pretty accurate. If you are going to shoot crappy corrosive ammo get the chrome lined, I you are disciplined and can resist the urge to save a dollar to shoot non-corrosive don't worry about the chrome.


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## dirtfarmer

Cabin Fever said:


> While we're on the topic, I seem to remember that one type of 5.56 round is better for a specific barrel twist over another....if that makes sense.
> 
> We have two Colt ARs, one with 1:7 twist and the other 1:12 twist. We have two types of 5.56 NATO ammo: XM855 and XM193. We've shot both types of ammo in both ARs and haven't noticed any difference. But, technically is one ammo better suited for a specific barrel twist?


1:7 twist is better for heavier bullets like 62 grain and up. 
1:12 twist is better for light bullets like 40 - 55 grain bullets. I've shot some 62 grainers in 1:12 that performed okay and some 1:12s that would cause pitch and yaw (keyhole) in bullet flight - not good and not accurate. Lots of info on the internet regarding this. All of my AR 556 bbls are 1:7. I shoot 55 grainers for light practice but mostly stick with 62 - 77 grain bullets now. More thump and wind resistance. Yes, I reload.


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## Clayjunky

Texaspredatorhu said:


> The military actually does do chrome lining. Some claim it will affect the accuracy over a non-lined but it was never a big deal to me. Melonite is the latest and greatest in AR barrels that I have seen. I have a YHM that is melonite and it's pretty accurate. If you are going to shoot crappy corrosive ammo get the chrome lined, I you are disciplined and can resist the urge to save a dollar to shoot non-corrosive don't worry about the chrome.



YMH melonite is the cat's meow, best in the business IMO. I didn't know the military had begun chrome lining, learned something newinteresting they'd invest in that. 

Agree about shooting non-corrosive. Even most steel case is non-corrosive these days, the lacquer coating has fouled in some of my rifles after prolonged shooting, a squirt of CLP between mags usually does the trick but brass isn't that much more expensive these days.


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## SmokeEater2

The military started using chrome lined barrels during Vietnam and continues today.

For the average shooter I don't think it makes much difference if they have a chrome lined barrel or not. I have some of each but I'm not a good enough shot to notice much difference in accuracy between the two types.  They are all plenty accurate enough to put an end to ne'er do well coyotes or adding venison to the freezer.

I bought a 6.8 upper last year specifically for deer and I've been really happy with that round, Works really well on deer.


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## Clayjunky

SmokeEater2 said:


> The military started using chrome lined barrels during Vietnam and continues today.
> 
> For the average shooter I don't think it makes much difference if they have a chrome lined barrel or not. I have some of each but I'm not a good enough shot to notice much difference in accuracy between the two types.  They are all plenty accurate enough to put an end to ne'er do well coyotes or adding venison to the freezer.
> 
> I bought a 6.8 upper last year specifically for deer and I've been really happy with that round, Works really well on deer.



 That's my go to AR, a week before the CT shooting I got a Bison 18" 6.8 upper, I'd still be waiting for it if I was a week later. I was telling the OP that I have tried numerous lowers with it, but what my favorite is the cheap, NFA poly lower. 1k+ upper on a $99 lower and it's perfect-I absolutely love the 6.8 round. Scores of Hogs and deer have all dropped from 110gr SSA Pro Hunter and last year Palmetto had a sale on Sellier &Bellot 110gr poly tips for $10 box, I bought 10 boxes to try and they are wicked. Glad to hear of another 6.8 fan. 

Bison at work...









The 110 S&B pulled from a buck last year.


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## GREENCOUNTYPETE

as cool as the 6.8spc is , it is a bunch of expense to get 1% more velocity over the 300 with the same weight bullet.

6.8 requires barrel , bolt and mag followers change 

300 only requires the barrel change 

the 6.8 also shows no subsonic loading data with the powder manufacturers I am seeing. I know some ar running it sub.

I am also starting to see 300 ammo on the shelves at farm and fleet as well as some selection of it at gun stores and 300 is made form easily available 223 brass cut and formed 6.8 is the most available brass in the 30rem family of case.


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## SmokeEater2

GREENCOUNTYPETE said:


> as cool as the 6.8spc is , it is a bunch of expense to get 1% more velocity over the 300 with the same weight bullet.
> 
> 6.8 requires barrel , bolt and mag followers change
> 
> 300 only requires the barrel change
> 
> the 6.8 also shows no subsonic loading data with the powder manufacturers I am seeing. I know some ar running it sub.
> 
> I am also starting to see 300 ammo on the shelves at farm and fleet as well as some selection of it at gun stores and 300 is made form easily available 223 brass cut and formed 6.8 is the most available brass in the 30rem family of case.



When I bought my 6.8 upper it was on sale complete with BCG and magazine for less than I could buy a 300 BO upper for at the time, Easy choice. I also bought several hundred rounds of Federal 6.8 GD ammo on sale shortly afterward mostly for the brass. I reload everything so store bought availability means little to me.

And I absolutely have no use at all for subsonic ammo in a deer rifle so a lack of that particular ammo type doesn't concern me either.

Thankfully, There are enough caliber choices out there for everyone's needs or wants.


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## Bubbas Boys

Well I bought my lower. Went with a complete psa aluminum forged with magpul moe grip and trigger guard and ctr stock. Got it for $149.99. Cant find a barrel I want in stock right now, so guess I will wait. Still want to build one but.... maybe next one. Haha. Thanks again for all the help and info!!


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## Bubbas Boys

I feel like I have exhausted all online options to find good barrel but if u have other Ideas I would love to hear them. Looking for mid length, and wanting to stay around $200-$250. I know that will make a cheap unit but though I could spend a decent amount on optics..


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## Texaspredatorhu

Bubbas Boys said:


> I feel like I have exhausted all online options to find good barrel but if u have other Ideas I would love to hear them. Looking for mid length, and wanting to stay around $200-$250. I know that will make a cheap unit but though I could spend a decent amount on optics..


I don't know if they still do or not but brownells sells a red x arms upper with bolt and charging handle for right around 300 I think.


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## Bubbas Boys

That an ok brand for just a budget build?


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## Bubbas Boys

What is best bullet weight for a 1:7 twist?


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## Clayjunky

Bubbas Boys said:


> I feel like I have exhausted all online options to find good barrel but if u have other Ideas I would love to hear them. Looking for mid length, and wanting to stay around $200-$250. I know that will make a cheap unit but though I could spend a decent amount on optics..



You're looking for just a barrel or the complete upper?


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## Bubbas Boys

Just got back on psa and they have one I want. Just ordered. Thanks again for all the help clayjunky. Really appreciate it!! Can't wait to get it all in!


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## Clayjunky

Bubbas Boys said:


> What is best bullet weight for a 1:7 twist?



You can shoot anything up to 90gr bullets, all accurately. So depending on your game, choose the best bullet. 90gr on a yote is too much.


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## Clayjunky

Bubbas Boys said:


> Just got back on psa and they have one I want. Just ordered. Thanks again for all the help clayjunky. Really appreciate it!! Can't wait to get it all in!



Awesome buddy! They restock quick, glad ya got what ya wanted. Holler if ya got any other questions.


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## Bubbas Boys

Sure.will!


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## Bubbas Boys

I have been reading how 1:7 twist likes heavier grain but with a newbie like me will I notice if I shoot 55 grain? Got a chance to trade for some 55 grain PMC bronze.


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## GREENCOUNTYPETE

you have a PSA acount now watch your email , check them every day what you want might sell out quick but your likley to see it soon 

a complete upper with BCG for less than 279 is daily unusual you may pick up a upper WO/BGC for as little as 179


Midway has their AR stoner right now complete with BCG for 299 with free shipping


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## GREENCOUNTYPETE

Bubbas Boys said:


> I have been reading how 1:7 twist likes heavier grain but with a newbie like me will I notice if I shoot 55 grain? Got a chance to trade for some 55 grain PMC bronze.


been shooting 55gr hornady soft points from my 1:7 shooting about 1.5 inches at 100 yards I have taken that bullet out to 250 and it is minute of milk jug at least , wasn't shooting for groups just milk jugs full of water hit every one from 50 to 250 on the first round


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## Texaspredatorhu

Bubbas Boys said:


> I have been reading how 1:7 twist likes heavier grain but with a newbie like me will I notice if I shoot 55 grain? Got a chance to trade for some 55 grain PMC bronze.


It'll do just fine with 55s when you need more get 62-68 grain loads to make it a little better. Barnes is making a 85 grain mag friendly bullet that like 1:7 twist. When you start getting heavier with bullets you tend to loose the likelihood of using your magazine as such and dropping them in individually. If you start reloading seating depth is where all this matters. I had issues with some ballistic tips years ago that did not like to feed from any kind of mag. If you can find some of the 50 round boxes of the Winchester white box jhp's I have an AR that burns through those like it cool. Good luck and enjoy!


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## Bubbas Boys

Great. Thanks guys. Oh also, it comes with mo mags, what are decent mags I should buy?


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## Clayjunky

Bubbas Boys said:


> Great. Thanks guys. Oh also, it comes with mo mags, what are decent mags I should buy?



This is another preference. PSA usually has good deals on both metal and polymer mags. I have PMags and cheap Thermold (they were $5.50 on Sportsmansguide.com a while back) along with E-Lander metal mags. They all run well for me. 

These sites should be your friend. Very helpful. 

Check all the subcategories, lots of Mags and overall great deals updated every few minutes. 
https://www.slickguns.com

Searches hundreds of online sellers - you can search any caliber ammo, gun, rifle, etc... they update constantly and are the lowest prices online. 

The 556/223 link but navigate site for everything else. 
https://www.wikiarms.com/group/223

They even have your local Walmart ammo inventory to search. 

https://www.wikiarms.com/walmart-search


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## GREENCOUNTYPETE

PSA daily deal
http://palmettostatearmory.com/psa-...r-without-bcg-or-charging-handle-7779543.html

pick up a 79.99 BCG and 12.99 charging handle to go with an you are in an upper for 282 with BCG and charging handle 

it's hard to do a complete upper for much less than that

189.99 + 79.99 + 12.99 =282.99 for the upper + 129.99 for the lower = 412.96 for a complete AR-15 sort of hard to beat that.


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## GunMonkeyIntl

Clayjunky said:


> ...As per the poly statement above, here's what I can tell you. This is one of those things online that is perpetuated. Glock is made from poly, they been dropped out airplanes, buried for a year, you name it and they still function. Hopefully you clicked the torture tests for poly lowers. Ask yourself if you think a multiple companies would invest millions into research and development, design and manufacturing to have something break while field stripping it or general use. I've never met anyone who had first-hand knowledge of this happening and there may be unique cases that happen (usually from abuse) that become Internet folklore. Glocks are the most widely used firearm globally among law enforcement, made out of polymer. For the extra 20 bucks, perhaps an aluminum lower is wiser, my point is if you're on a budget, don't think twice about them. The torture tests vids below.
> 
> http://www.lw15.com


This is a little different case than a Glock. That polymer AR receivers can and do break is not just an internet myth. A pistol frame is denser, more compact, and carries a lighter weapon package around it. It is much less likely to break from a drop or heavy hands during maintenance. 

I can't tell you that every polymer AR receiver (upper or lower) will wear out or break from a little bit of sport shooting, but I can guarantee you that a polymer one subjected to the same things as an aluminum one will fail in ways you would not even expect from the aluminum one. 

The area that is probably easiest to visualize is the charging handle latch recess. Inspect a well used charging handle, and you'll see that the gas key has worn through the ano inside the charging handle's trough. If a charging handle were not latched, it would try to reciprocate- albeit from friction rather than a mechanical engagement. With a polymer upper, the sharp metal latch face will quickly tear through its stop. There isn't a point on a polymer pistol frame with that sort of dynamic. 

The lower isn't subjected to reciprocating forces, but I have personally seen (on my bench, not the internet) "carbon fiber" lowers with broken TD pin ears, extension bridges, and bolt catch channels. There may be a better poly lower out there, but the Bushmaster/Windham Weaponry "carbon fiber" polymer just isn't even good plastic. Too, with as inexpensive and ubiquitous as the aluminum lowers are now, one has to ask 'why' one would even buy a poly one- if not just to get unregistered ones as another poster did. 

Regardless, I see that Bubba's ended up with an aluminum one- which really is the best choice for a first time builder- at the very least. It's going to be much more forgiving on assembly, and isn't going to suffer some random point of failure that leaves him questioning his assembly techniques, ammo choice, etc. You guys have got him on the right path.


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## Bearfootfarm

Bubbas Boys said:


> I have been reading how 1:7 twist likes heavier grain but with a newbie like me will I notice if I shoot 55 grain? Got a chance to trade for some 55 grain PMC bronze.


They will all "shoot" from the gun, but no one can predict which particular bullets and loads will be accurate in any single gun.

They are all different enough that what performs best in one may be terrible in another in terms of precision.

Luckily most shooters aren't going to notice a huge difference without a lot of testing under controlled conditions.


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## Texaspredatorhu

Bearfootfarm said:


> They will all "shoot" from the gun, but no one can predict which particular bullets and loads will be accurate in any single gun.
> 
> They are all different enough that what performs best in one may be terrible in another in terms of precision.
> 
> Luckily most shooters aren't going to notice a huge difference without a lot of testing under controlled conditions.


Yes they will all "shoot" as you put it. And yes one can predict which bullets will shoot better given a twist rate. 1:7, a fast twist will stabilize the heavy slower moving bullets where say a 35grain NTX bullet will basically skip over the rifling and give you the pattern of a shotgun more or less. My 22-250 is a 1:14 which is considerably slow. I wanted to see if I could get 70 and 77 grain bullets to be accurate in it and it wouldn't even pattern due to the lack of stability. As far as factory ammo goes anything between 55-68 and sometimes heavier depending on the design of the bullet will do very well in a 1:7 depending on the velocity.


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## Bubbas Boys

Just wanted to show what I ended up with. Planning on getting it out this weekend and getting into the world of AR's.


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## Texaspredatorhu

Good looking rifle. The good thing at this point is if you dive of the deepens with ARs you have a great starting point that wasn't overly expensive to get into. On top of all that you can pin any ar15 upper onto it and I believe with the exception of the 6.8 spec it's the same bolt between many of them. A good bunch of odd ball cartridges for the 15 as well. I currently have 3 lowers and 4 uppers 24" 223 rem, 20" hbar in 223 wylde, 16" heavy barreled 556, 7" 300 blk suppressor welded to get me to 16. Trying to decide which I will build next 25-40 sharps or a 243/25wssm. Too many decisions! Good luck and start experimenting


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## Texaspredatorhu

http://thinkingafield.org/2017/02/ar-15-barrel-twist-rates-need-know.html

Might help understand twist rates and bullet selection.


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