# 'Nother electric car battery.....



## mightybooboo (Feb 10, 2004)

Can be recharged in 10 minutes!

-----------------------------------------------------------------
Altairnano's NanoSafe battery packs allow the Phoenix sport utility truck (SUT) and sport utility vehicle (SUV) to exceed performance specifications for the State of California Type III Zero Emissions Vehicle. Altairnano provides nano-Titanate based batteries that are used in two battery pack configurations: a 35 KWh and a 70 KWh NanoSafe pack. The 35 and 70 KWh NanoSafe packs provide sufficient power and energy for a fleet vehicle to travel up to 130 or 250 miles, respectively, with a top speed of over 100 mph. Both NanoSafe battery packs can be recharged in less than 10 minutes using an industrial 480 volt battery charging platform. The NanoSafe battery packs can also be charged over longer periods of time when using typical 120 or 240 volt power sources. An on-board charger is standard equipment for both the Phoenix SUT and SUV vehicles.
-------------------------------------------------------------------

Nice to see folks still working on this.

Some links,this is a video explaining the battery
http://www.popularmechanics.com/automotive/new_cars/4201003.html

This is the vehicle manufacturer and the links too.....
http://www.phoenixmotorcars.com/

Pics of truck and SUV models
http://news.com.com/2300-11389_3-6139442-1.html?tag=ne.gall.pg
-----------------------------------------------------------------
And yes,I bet this experimental low volume tech is expensive.Duh.
It does point out things are still moving in R+D.
Good looking truck too.


BooBoo :gromit:


----------



## mightybooboo (Feb 10, 2004)

An Electric TRUCK no less.400 ft/lbs torque from ZERO mph.
-------------------------------------------------------
Driving Electric

GELLERMAN: When General Motors, Toyota, and Ford decided to pull the plug on their electric vehicles, it seemed to toll a death knell for cars powered by batteries.But there's still a charge left in the fledgling technology. Today, there are a number of small startups trying to resurrect the electric vehicle, though most of the models are just for city-driving or very expensive. But as Living on Earth's Ingrid Lobet reports, there is one car company, called Phoenix Motorcars, that is rising above the others, with plans to sell long-range, relatively affordable electric vehicles - in the coming year a pickup truck, and an SUV in 2008.

LOBET: In a building on the outskirts of Los Angeles, engineers test and tweak Phoenix Motorcars' first run of electric sports utility trucks. Salesman Brian Bliss points out the ****** headlights framing a V-shaped black grill.


BLISS: It is similar in size to like a Chevy Colorado, so this is a true mid-size truck vehicle, very roomy. It's a little more round and edgier, much more futuristic-looking, than a lot of boxy trucks have been historically. And the interest with the looks and the capability has just been astronomical.

LOBET: Most electric cars - though not all - have been small, like pumped up golf carts, or sporty two-seaters, but both Phoenix models can fit 5 passengers plus cargo.

BLISS: These are full size cars, comparable to any gas powered vehicle you'll see on the road today.

LOBET: Phoenix thinks it can offer a bigger car because it's using a new battery. It gets its batteries from a chemicals firm in Reno, Nevada - Altairnano. The company discovered a battery chemistry that solves the not-so-little problem of lithium batteries getting too hot and bursting into flames - like the laptop batteries recently in the news. Phoenix CEO Dan Elliot:

ELLIOT: The lithium titanate, or nano-safe battery, removes the carbon content from the battery, it takes the graphite out, and by doing that, it cannot, because of its physical chemistry, get into a thermal runaway issue, so you can't actually have that tremendous heat up and then a fire like you see in a standard lithium battery.

LOBET: Altairnano says its next-generation lithium ion battery solves a few other problems that may have helped kill the electric car. With a high-powered charger - not something you would have in your home - you can charge the car in less than 10 minutes, instead of 7 hours. And the batteries seem to last the life of a vehicle - 20 years. Evan House directs the battery program at Altairnano.

HOUSE: You can take the energy out very quickly and you can put it back in very quickly and the life does not degrade. It's a quantum leap, it's a paradigm-shifting leap.


LOBET: Phoenix is starting to get the kind of celebrity attention that startups can only dream of and that helped launch the Toyota Prius a few years ago. Here actor Ed Begley praises the Phoenix-Altairnano combo at a clean vehicle show on the Santa Monica Pier.

BEGLEY: We have been waiting for the breakthrough batteries and I believe it's happened with these wonderful lithium ion batteries that do no have the graphite in them, it's totally different they don't have the heat issues of lithium ion batteries have had. I think we've found the Holy Grail of batteries.

LOBET: But Phoenix is still ironing out the kinks. Mechanics worked down to the wire to have one SUV ready for reporters to test-drive. They worked so long they had to leave the shop without charging it, so they brought along their mobile charger. But it turns out bringing a diesel generator onto the Santa Monica pier for a clean car event is a no-no.

The idea of a new electric car and this new battery technology does have its skeptics. Marshall Miller, Senior Development Engineer at UC Davis' Institute for Transportation Studies is one.

MILLER: Lithium Ion batteries have been around for a while and we have tested them in our labs for at least five years now, and the properties of the batteries, with the exception of cycle life, have not changed significantly. The real problem has been the cost, and potentially, the cycle life. The big question is, as you bring the price down, how low can you get it? Is that price low enough to be mass marketable? And I think that's something that no one really knows at this point.

LOBET: Phoenix is selling its trucks and SUV's for 45 thousand dollars, which will still be a loss for the company in the beginning. Another question is whether Americans, just catching on to hybrids, will want to buy an all battery car, even if it can go as long on a charge as a car goes on a tank of gas, because then you'd have to recharge. But Phoenix foresees a day when you can go to the gas station for either a fill-up or a charge up, and either would take the same time. Altairnano Senior VP Roy Graham says major automakers are showing interest.

GRAHAM: Given the technical characteristics of the batteries, all of the hybrid manufacturers and the plug-in hybrids and all the electric vehicle manufacturers are all over it, so you can assume that we're talking to a lot of the major players as well.

LOBET: Phoenix Motorcars says it will deliver its first electric pickups in the spring. They'll be available to municipal and commercial fleets and go 100-130 miles on a charge. Consumers will be able to buy the trucks and SUV's beginning in 2008. Those vehicles will have a double-battery pack and go twice as far.

For Living on Earth, I'm Ingrid Lobet.

--------------------------------------------------------------

BooBoo :gromit:


----------



## rambler (Jan 20, 2004)

Battery advancement is _the_ hangup for electric vehicles. Continuing those advancements is the key.

Will have to see if those machines can take the vibration, salt, road dirt, etc. & continue to preform. Cost is hogh now, of cousre, but will have to see what mass-production of the battery pack would do in 5-10 years.

10 minutes, transfer 70 kwh's. Wow. Bend the hands on the meter, & cool a housre down with just the electric meter. 

Neat stuff.

--->Paul


----------



## mightybooboo (Feb 10, 2004)

Tested through 20, 000 full charge/discharge cycles.
Now would that make a GREAT homepower battery????
Plus the chemistry allows for massive power flows in AND out,great for high loads too.

They say the costs are comparable to any other Lithium Ion battery.

Dont think the car will make it,even the big auto makers have had to merge and consolidate.Now if THEY made it......

But even beyond cars,what fine battery tech.

BooBoo :gromit:


----------



## mightybooboo (Feb 10, 2004)

I agree Paul,this new battery tech is really exciting.Nanotech reaching batteries,and cool to see nanotech coming into the real world,going to change a lot of things.

Nice to see the tech flow into batteries,it seems its been such a neglected field.

What if this tech replaces lead acid batteries,on that scale we would surely see unit costs decline.Wonder if this tech is really for real? I would love that longevity offgrid.

Oh,the vehicles they are using are just production vehicles from Asia,with ICE stripped out.

BooBoo :gromit:


----------



## idahodave (Jan 20, 2005)

First batteries (35kwh) were only $75,000 each.....it may take a while to get the price down so that you could afford to use them.


----------



## mightybooboo (Feb 10, 2004)

idahodave said:


> First batteries (35kwh) were only $75,000 each.....it may take a while to get the price down so that you could afford to use them.


Dave ,arent you offgrid? Any idea how many Kwh you have? 

I have 1600 amp/hrs at 12 volts,can anyone convert that to Kwh for me,its 8 L-16 HC trojans.

BooBoo :gromit:


----------



## beowoulf90 (Jan 13, 2004)

Now this is getting better. I like the 10 min. charge time, but don't like the industrial 480 volts(it hurts, literally) to do it.... If they keep it up we will have a reliable EV-truck on the market in 5 to 10 years... I didn't see what the weight capacity was on the truck other than being able to carry 5 people. That will have to be the next step a EV-truck with the capacity to work on the farm.. I hope they figure it out.. I also like that it's a private Company and not some government (waste....) program/ mandate.


----------



## idahodave (Jan 20, 2005)

1600 amp hours at 12 v is 19.2Kwh..might be better to use 13v for calculations or about 21Kwh total.

My off grid cabin has about 10Kwh storage (8-T105s) or about $800 worth.


----------



## mightybooboo (Feb 10, 2004)

Ok,so since you can run lithium out,as opposed to 50% for LA,would need 10 kwhr,bout 1/3 the size of that cars battery,25,000 bucks.So it would last a lifetime,thats still mighty steep.

Not price friendly at this point in time.

Again,thats a specialized run of ten large batteries.

Anybody smart enough to figure that at Lithium Ion cell 2,500 Ma cells.2 bucks each.

Wonder if costs are equal or if its the packs size/specialization/research/setup costs pushing the costs so high

BooBoo :gromit:


----------



## idahodave (Jan 20, 2005)

mightybooboo said:


> Wonder if costs are equal or if its the packs size/specialization/research/setup costs pushing the costs so high
> 
> BooBoo :gromit:


Probably all of the above, plus a little profit.

If they can be mass produced, the price should fall.


----------



## speedfunk (Dec 7, 2005)

Thanks for posting this ... The dream of electric car has been waiting so long for good cheap batteries..hope fully this will happen and make the electric car a real alternative for people.


----------

