# Parging an old chimney , does it work ?



## Calhoon (May 25, 2012)

I have a new home , a wonderful house , well built in 1986 . . 

only one thing wrong , the upstairs fireplace don't work . 

*It won't draw at all , acts like a cracked cigarette .* . 

I called a chimney sweep out to have a look , he said it'd take a parging job to seal the flue where it would draw , $ 800.00 ... 

seems a bit much to me , looks like a rip-off . 

any help out there ?


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## vicker (Jul 11, 2003)

If it doesn't draw, sealing it isn't going to help, is it? Doesn't sound right to me. Never heard of parging before though.


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## Calhoon (May 25, 2012)

vicker said:


> If it doesn't draw, sealing it isn't going to help, is it? Doesn't sound right to me. Never heard of parging before though.


That's me as well , parging ? 

the thing is , the basement flue draws just fine ... so I'm thinking that maybe the flue is cracked , both are on their own flue ... what else could it be ?


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## vicker (Jul 11, 2003)

The one could be clogged or capped? Some old chimneys were poorly designed, but usually they had it down to a pretty good science. Have you tried lighting one piece of newspaper on fire, hold it up there and see how it draws? Look up in there with a flashlight first. Maybe it has a damper? I'm not insinuating that you're an idiot, just thinking how I myself have showed my idiocy on occasion


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## vicker (Jul 11, 2003)

Well I'll be. And, I thought I knew everything. 
Parge coat (concrete): A thin coat of a cementitious or polymeric mortar applied to concrete for refinement of the surface. The typical parge coat is 1/32"-1/16" in thickness; this may be less than the minimum thickness allowed by many mortars types. Usually applied with a parging bag.

The intent is to create a contiguous surface by filling surface air voids and bugholes (eliminating bughole-induced outgassing) and to level concrete with extreme rugosity to a level suitable for topcoating with a high-performance protective coating.


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## vicker (Jul 11, 2003)

If its cracked, I'd say you would want more that that. Cabin Fever will be along directly. I think he recommends lining it with triple wall pipe if possible.


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## Calhoon (May 25, 2012)

vicker said:


> The one could be clogged or capped? Some old chimneys were poorly designed, but usually they had it down to a pretty good science. Have you tried lighting one piece of newspaper on fire, hold it up there and see how it draws? Look up in there with a flashlight first. Maybe it has a damper? I'm not insinuating that you're an idiot, just thinking how I myself have showed my idiocy on occasion





vicker said:


> Well I'll be. And, I thought I knew everything.
> Parge coat (concrete): A thin coat of a cementitious or polymeric mortar applied to concrete for refinement of the surface. The typical parge coat is 1/32"-1/16" in thickness; this may be less than the minimum thickness allowed by many mortars types. Usually applied with a parging bag.
> 
> The intent is to create a contiguous surface by filling surface air voids and bugholes (eliminating bughole-induced outgassing) and to level concrete with extreme rugosity to a level suitable for topcoating with a high-performance protective coating.





vicker said:


> If its cracked, I'd say you would want more that that. Cabin Fever will be along directly. I think he recommends lining it with triple wall pipe if possible.



well , Vicker , it's a puzzle . 

both flues are in the same chimney . the bottom flue draws just fine 

the top flue the fireplace is in don't draw worth a hoot . 

it acts just like a cracked cigarette , exactly like a cracked cigarette , if you know what I mean.


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## frankva (May 21, 2009)

Could be plugged up. Can you look up it with a flashlight and mirror?

Old compact mirror or 2. 

May be something simple like you need to open the damper.


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## wharton (Oct 9, 2011)

By definition parging, plastering and stuccoing are similar processes. you apply a coating of cement to a surface to make it water resistant, and provide an attractive finish. This has nothing to do with a flue, and would be physically impossible to do inside of a tight clay flue. Your description of the guy's diagnosis of the problem really makes me question if the "chimney sweep" proposing this repair has a clue? You need to have the flue inspected, by a professional chimney sweep and determine why the thing is not functioning. A masonary chimney with an uncapped clay liner isn't as durable as it looks. After 25 years, finding a heavily damaged clay flue liner is pretty common.


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## TNHermit (Jul 14, 2005)

Stupid question. Did anybody actually look at the chimney top down and see if there is an obstruction like a birds nest in the thing. Or to see if the damper is open.

Simple thing is if there in no gaping hole then it has to draw. Parging is a common thing and 800 is not that expensive. Triple wall is nice but i doubt your flue is big enough. Also parging has to be done with a special cement.


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## dirtman (Sep 15, 2011)

A flue that won't draw is blocked somehow. If the chimney is on the outside of the building it would have to be cracked all the way through the brick to affect the draw. You could get a stainless steel liner installed but that would also be costly. The parging is baloney.


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## wharton (Oct 9, 2011)

TNHermit said:


> Stupid question. Did anybody actually look at the chimney top down and see if there is an obstruction like a birds nest in the thing. Or to see if the damper is open.
> 
> Simple thing is if there in no gaping hole then it has to draw. Parging is a common thing and 800 is not that expensive. Triple wall is nice but i doubt your flue is big enough. Also parging has to be done with a special cement.


 The bigger issue here is that parging the EXTERIOR of the chimney, to resolve a draft issue is a little like painting your living room because your water heater is leaking, might be prettier after you're done, but....... you didn't solve the problem. Personally, I would put a two coats of Thoro-Seal on the chimney for 1/8TH the cost, before I spent a dime on parging anything.


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## KMA1 (Dec 9, 2006)

I am not buying the parging requirement. I have seen several chimneys with cracked liners that draw just fine. If the chimney is drawing so bad through the outer walls and liner together, that it will not draw through the fireplace, it is not safe to use , even with parging in my opinion. Parging the inside of the flue is used to stop creasote buildup in the liner cracks and on the ouside of the liner but in the chimney, which will start a housefire. 

But I have a different opinion here. The chimney that works is to the downstairs fireplace. The upstairs fireplace will have less pressure difference between the top of the chimney and the fireplace. How tall is the chimney top above the fireplace opening. Maybe that the chimney for the upstairs fireplace is not tall enough. Is there a cold air intake in the upstairs fireplace to take air straight from under the house? If not:
First, I would try opening a window upstairs and see if the chimney will draw. Could be the house is just to airtight.
Second, open a window or door with good potential for air movement up the stairwell and try again. 

If these have no effect, I would try just setting 2 additional sections of flue liners on top the the upstairs chimney form the roof and without 1 and 2 above then 1 and 2. 

If it draws this way, the chimney probably needs extending. 

Or you could run a cold air intake duct from under the house straight up and come out right in front of the front edge of the firebox on the upstairs fireplace.


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## Calhoon (May 25, 2012)

wharton said:


> The bigger issue here is that parging the EXTERIOR of the chimney, to resolve a draft issue is a little like painting your living room because your water heater is leaking, might be prettier after you're done, but....... you didn't solve the problem. Personally, I would put a two coats of Thoro-Seal on the chimney for 1/8TH the cost, before I spent a dime on parging anything.


Hold up y'all ,







, we're off the trail , , , it's not the outside of the chimney that's being considered for 'parging' , it's the *inside *of the fireplace flue , it just never has drawn , even when the house was new in 1986 , so says a brother of the former builder / owner , it acts just like a cracked cigarette , if any of y'all smoke , you know what I mean. 

It's a puzzle , I'm new here , and don't know if y'all allow pictures or albums or much else , lots of places I can't go because I'm still new ( _when does that wear off , btw ? even red ink only lasts two weeks , lol.

anyway , if I can , I'll try and send some pics . _


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## vicker (Jul 11, 2003)

If it has never drawn good it is probably a design flaw.


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## KMA1 (Dec 9, 2006)

Calhoon, 

Read my post above!

KMA1


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## NW Rancher (Mar 8, 2008)

I'm with KMA, I bet it's not tall enough.


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## Calhoon (May 25, 2012)

vicker said:


> If it has never drawn good it is probably a design flaw.





KMA1 said:


> Calhoon,
> 
> Read my post above!
> 
> KMA1





NW Rancher said:


> I'm with KMA, I bet it's not tall enough.


:cowboy: well , it might be too short , I'll have a look at it , thanks , but I think it might be that the flue was cracked when they built it in 1987 , no way of knowing now . .


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## TNHermit (Jul 14, 2005)

If its two ft or more higher than anything within ten ft its tall enough. Who ever says they can parge it should be able to give you a camera inspection. My bet is its construction at the base is screwed up if it never worked


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## frankva (May 21, 2009)

Try cracking a window in that room.


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## KMA1 (Dec 9, 2006)

<<<<<well , it might be too short , I'll have a look at it , thanks , but I think it might be that the flue was cracked when they built it in 1987 , no way of knowing now . . >>>>>

It might be, but as I said, I have never seen a case where a cracked liner inside a masonery chimney made the fireplace not draw. I think the only way that is likely would be if pieces of the flue actually fell down and blocked flue liner off at its base where it comes out of the smoke chamber or the throat from the fireplace into the smoke chamber.

I do have a question. I am assuming that the 2 fireplaces were built at the same time by the same person and are pretty much alike. Is that true or what are the differences?


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## Calhoon (May 25, 2012)

KMA1 said:


> <<<<<well , it might be too short , I'll have a look at it , thanks , but I think it might be that the flue was cracked when they built it in 1987 , no way of knowing now . . >>>>>
> 
> It might be, but as I said, I have never seen a case where a cracked liner inside a masonery chimney made the fireplace not draw. I think the only way that is likely would be if pieces of the flue actually fell down and blocked flue liner off at its base where it comes out of the smoke chamber or the throat from the fireplace into the smoke chamber.
> 
> I do have a question. I am assuming that the 2 fireplaces were built at the same time by the same person and are pretty much alike. Is that true or what are the differences?





TNHermit said:


> If its two ft or more higher than anything within ten ft its tall enough. Who ever says they can parge it should be able to give you a camera inspection. My bet is its construction at the base is screwed up if it never worked


well , the chimney is a 3-flue , 3 stories high , custom laid rock , hand built. 
the basement flue has a wood heater and draws just fine. 

the upstairs flue used to have a wood heater and it drawed well . 

the upstairs fireplace flue never has drawn right , smallest fire smokes the whole house up :-(

all 3 flue are in the same chimney ... 

when I come off proby status here , I hope I can post pictures that would show more clearly the problem , anybody have any idea when that will be ?


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## Ross (May 9, 2002)

Parging will not change how it draws. Height and how convoluted the design is will as said befoer. Some other things like currential down drafting from things like trees or even roof lines (that 2 foot higher than anything within 10 feet is code not gospel) A tree line can swirl wind makign a chimney harder to draw. If it's not blocked you may have to remove or alter near by tree limbs or try going higher with the chimney. Its funny how adding even a foot helps! Be nice to see a picture alright!


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## Calhoon (May 25, 2012)

Ross said:


> Parging will not change how it draws. Height and how convoluted the design is will as said befoer. Some other things like currential down drafting from things like trees or even roof lines (that 2 foot higher than anything within 10 feet is code not gospel) A tree line can swirl wind makign a chimney harder to draw. If it's not blocked you may have to remove or alter near by tree limbs or try going higher with the chimney. Its funny how adding even a foot helps! Be nice to see a picture alright!


Thanks Ross , I appreciate the reply . 

I'm prolly showing my ignorance here , but what is the purpose of parging in the first place if not to seal the chimney for a proper draw ? 

Sheeeshh , the other 2 flues are just fine , but the fireplace flue is screwed. 

The other two flues draw just fine . no blockages , it's a puzzle . :grit:


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## Ross (May 9, 2002)

The internal liner is the seal you need They might parge it to seal it and keep the heat in which might increase the draw but I took it that the others draw fine so is it an exterior seal issue. Probably not. I mean the air would have to be flowing through the exterior rock to cool the liner (clay?) and then you'd have a structural problem needing the rock repointed (which would seal it too) I have heard of pre heating the flue with a propane torch and I've used a very hot dry softwood fire to do the same but sometimes you just can't beat the dynamics of airflows around your house. Going higher is your only option. How big is the liner in the chimney thats not drawing?


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## Ross (May 9, 2002)

Are you sure there isn't a damper closed in there somewhere?


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## TNHermit (Jul 14, 2005)

Take an old fashion trouble light an drop it down the flue on and have someone at the fireplace and see if you can see light. Maybe help at dusk.. Sometimes brick pieces and masonry, cement get dropped down and you can check and see as i said at the start if the damper is open


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## Rocky Fields (Jan 24, 2007)

The high tech pros lower a movie camera with a light down the chimney from the rooftop. That way they can see if anything is amiss. They can also reline the chimney and use a cement grout to go between the existing flu and the new one. There was a 'This Old House' episode that covered this. There is also the possibility that your damper is incorrect.


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