# Should I make my own hay?



## pfettig77 (Oct 14, 2014)

I have a 10 acre field that I want to plant in hay for beef that I'll be getting this winter/spring. I was wondering if this is too small of a field to bother getting set up to do hay. Considerations:

1) I have a tractor that is capable of running equipment (but no other equipment)
2) I think it would be fun and it would be good hard work for my kids (but that doesn't meant I want to loose money on it).
3) It'll be a while before I have enough cattle to graze that field but eventually I think it will be pasture.
4) It's currently being for $1100 per year.
5) I have my summers off (plenty of time to do it)
6) I may or may not be getting cost-sharing money from the NRCS so the actual grass seed may be free or nearly free.


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## SpaceCadet12364 (Apr 27, 2003)

For starters rolling, large or small square baling. Type of grass you want to plant. fertilizer cost. Baler, rake, tedder, mower and mower type. and hay spear. And if storing inside or out. Horse hay brings more money But more expense. Can your tractor pick up 2000lbs. can you put a front loader on it. There is a lot of equipment needed for cutting and baling hay. It will take a few years to re-cop your money.
Just a few things to think about.


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## myheaven (Apr 14, 2006)

what about part hay part oats and part corn? meet most of your bovine needs.


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## Le Petit Norman (Apr 28, 2008)

If you decide to take that road don't wait until haying time to get your used equipment the price will just go up and for the baller if you take a square baller unless you know how to fix it make sure there is a capable service facility nearby, I am just a useless person with the knotter &#8230; and I can say I am not the only one in that department


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## Ceilismom (Jul 16, 2011)

Unless I really enjoyed working on machinery, I'd let the cows harvest their own hay on 10 acres. Putting up good hay is an art.


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## sammyd (Mar 11, 2007)

Yes.
Take the time to find decent used equipment that fits what you want to do whether it's small squares or rounds.
Despite all the stuff I see around this site, my old used baler is one of my more trouble free pieces of equipment. Pretty much hook up, lube and go. Make sure it's cleaned at the end of the season and parked in a shed when not in use.
I had 5 acres of decent grass hay turn to bedding after being rained on twice while waiting for a buddy to bale it up that's when I decided to buy my own stuff.
I have made as little as 1/2 an acre of hay to over 80 in one season. Having my own equipment allows me the flexibility to buy standing hay if I come across a deal.
Making good hay isn't really an art, all it takes is patience, decent weather, and decent equipment.


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## Bret (Oct 3, 2003)

Yes, make hay as long as it is fun. I have hay made. I want to make it but I do not want to fix and store things.


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## agmantoo (May 23, 2003)

I never understood from your first post if you have additional acreage. 10 acres will not carry many cattle and feed them all year.

My suggestion is that if you do not have additional acreage is to turn the 10 acres into pasture and to buy hay provided you intend to remain in beef production. If you are unsure of your long term position with cattle then I suggest you get a hobby and continue to lease the property for the $1100/year. Once the current situation reverses with cattle prices IMO you will not reap a steady $1100 without lots of dedication, risks, sweat and/or cold weather exposure.


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## pfettig77 (Oct 14, 2014)

Thanks for the thoughts everyone. lots to think about - especially the maintenance aspect. I'm not terribly mechanically inclined. That may be one of the main deciding factors. There is a newer (so hopefully less maintenance) small round baler available that I'm interested in. It's a hesston 530 and it makes 500 pound 4x4 bales.



agmantoo said:


> I never understood from your first post if you have additional acreage. 10 acres will not carry many cattle and feed them all year.
> 
> My suggestion is that if you do not have additional acreage is to turn the 10 acres into pasture and to buy hay provided you intend to remain in beef production. If you are unsure of your long term position with cattle then I suggest you get a hobby and continue to lease the property for the $1100/year. Once the current situation reverses with cattle prices IMO you will not reap a steady $1100 without lots of dedication, risks, sweat and/or cold weather exposure.


I have about 20 acres of pasture/cropland and 0 animals. About 10 of it (the rented portion) is flat enough to be tillable and that's where I'd put the hay. I plan on getting four or so bred cows this winter so I won't have to pasture that area for a couple years 'till the heard gets bigger, and that's why I'd like to make hay there.


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## francismilker (Jan 12, 2006)

Just my position so take it for what it's worth but IMHO I'd see how things went with raising cattle before I plunged into it with both barrels cocked. See if you have the knack for cattle before you get into it with the time required for putting up hay and maintaining equipment.


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## wannabfishin (Jan 31, 2014)

unless you plan on picking up more than the 10 acres, my answer is no. too much initial cost and upkeep for equipment for 10 acres of hay.


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## pfettig77 (Oct 14, 2014)

That's kind of what I was thinking about the size of the field. It just sounds like fun even if it's not particularly profitable. I suppose that's only true if everything is running well.


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## ycanchu2 (Oct 21, 2011)

I suggest studying the art of growing grass, rather than studying the art of making hay which(the latter) is what most people do.


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## kabic (May 12, 2009)

Being in NW wisconsin, he probably would have to feed hay between November through April...it's just not possible to rotational graze all year.

So he needs to either bale it himself.
Pay someone else to bale it.
Or take the current rent money and buy hay

4x5 round bales are around 45 or 65 this year. ..The drought years like 2 years ago it was over 100.


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## ycanchu2 (Oct 21, 2011)

kabic said:


> Being in NW wisconsin, he probably would have to feed hay between November through April...it's just not possible to rotational graze all year.
> 
> So he needs to either bale it himself.
> Pay someone else to bale it.
> ...


I realize the further north the more challenging, however I believe 6 months of feeding hay could be trimmed to 3 or 4 months with MIG.
The average conventional farmer here in Ky feeds hay 4 to 5 months. 
Just by simply learning how to stockpile fescue and nothing else, most farmers could graze to Jan.1.
Not to be critical of anyone but, most farmers have a haymaking mindset.


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## wannabfishin (Jan 31, 2014)

ycanchu2 said:


> I realize the further north the more challenging, however I believe 6 months of feeding hay could be trimmed to 3 or 4 months with MIG.
> The average conventional farmer here in Ky feeds hay 4 to 5 months.
> Just by simply learning how to stockpile fescue and nothing else, most farmers could graze to Jan.1.
> Not to be critical of anyone but, most farmers have a haymaking mindset.


not sure about nw wisconsin but i know i couldnt trim down to 3 or 4 months here in Maine. id have some awful skinny cattle. we had a foot of snow and a half inch of ice on top if it in November.


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## sammyd (Mar 11, 2007)

I get 150 bales of grass from an acres of grass that is an old stand.
I get 3 bucks a bale.
If I planted it down with a decent pasture mix with some legumes and grasses in it I could get 4 bucks a bale quite easily.
Keeping production at the same level (even though it would likely increase) that puts it at 6000 for 10 acres. I've sold alfalfa bales for 6 bucks each so your income could be a little higher.

I would not pay attention to anyone telling me how to graze my cows in WI while living in KY.


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## myheaven (Apr 14, 2006)

ycanchu2 said:


> I realize the further north the more challenging, however I believe 6 months of feeding hay could be trimmed to 3 or 4 months with MIG.
> The average conventional farmer here in Ky feeds hay 4 to 5 months.
> Just by simply learning how to stockpile fescue and nothing else, most farmers could graze to Jan.1.
> Not to be critical of anyone but, most farmers have a haymaking mindset.


Come live in north west wisconsin. Bring your herd of cows and we will see how many survive one winter up here its -37 today with windchill. Oh and the snow drifts are about 6 ft high. Your idea is just laughable!


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## wannabfishin (Jan 31, 2014)

maybe instead of buying hay we should start buying snow shovels for our cows.


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## ycanchu2 (Oct 21, 2011)

sammyd said:


> I get 150 bales of grass from an acres of grass that is an old stand.
> I get 3 bucks a bale.
> If I planted it down with a decent pasture mix with some legumes and grasses in it I could get 4 bucks a bale quite easily.
> Keeping production at the same level (even though it would likely increase) that puts it at 6000 for 10 acres. I've sold alfalfa bales for 6 bucks each so your income could be a little higher.
> ...


 You will have to forgive me! I didn't realize you knew it all.



myheaven said:


> Come live in north west wisconsin. Bring your herd of cows and we will see how many survive one winter up here its -37 today with windchill. Oh and the snow drifts are about 6 ft high. Your idea is just laughable!


Just trying to help people close the hay feeding gap a little bit. If that's laughable I'll laugh all the way to bank with ya.


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## lakeportfarms (Apr 23, 2009)

I'd continue to lease it and let others make the hay for you to feed. And yes, you should probably plan on feeding hay from November to May. We can't stick our pigtails in the ground past November to strip graze, there may be a lot of snow on the ground, and the grass doesn't get to sufficient length here until the middle of May to put the cows on to graze. You'll have similar conditions there in Wisconsin as we do in Michigan.


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## sammyd (Mar 11, 2007)

> Not to be critical of anyone but, most farmers have a haymaking mindset.


You'll have to forgive me, I didn't know you knew most farmers...


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## Vahomesteaders (Jun 4, 2014)

I make hay on a 2 acre plot. It's just for my goats. I cut it with a sickle bar, rake it with a 3 wheel rake and bail it by hand with a bail press I made. More work but cheap to do. It's really up to you. You can find cheap bailers. And really all you need is sickle bar cutter (cheap), a rake (cheap) and you can get bailers right cheap to. Heck I got gehl 1450 that's like new I will sell you 900.lol. If you wanna bail then do it. You can use it or someone will buy it. Even if you make nothing the first year or so you get the satisfaction.


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## topside1 (Sep 23, 2005)

I buy hay each year and here's why: My soil is to poor to justify the time, fuel, yield, and labor. Quality square bales sell for $2.50 each and are bought yearly only five miles away from my home. Eight months out of the year my pastures can support 3 adult steers and 6 adult goats. So with that said, everyone's situation is different and only you can make the call based on location, vegetation growth rate, type of vegetation growing, drought, rainfall, extra acreage, and soil fertility. I suggest get into livestock slowly and then make hay management decisions. Topside


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## ycanchu2 (Oct 21, 2011)

sammyd said:


> You'll have to forgive me, I didn't know you knew most farmers...


Yea I know most of em. However, I was actually referring to the ones around here although I didn't make that clear. They overgraze their pastures while working them selves silly trying get up "quality" hay in case they don't get that inch of rain a week in the summer. Most conventional grazing cattle farmers around here need an inch of rain(at least) every week or two at the most or they are hurtin. Sort of like people who live from paycheck to payckeck with no money in the bank in case they don't get that check. And then they start feeding hay at the first hard frost because that kills all the crabgrass and Bermuda grass, that is what is mostly being grazed anyway because fescue and other cool season grasses aren't growing to amount to anything because they have been repeatedly picked into the dirt. At this point winter hasn't even started yet. So, when I say most farmers(around here) have a haymaking mindset I do think I know what I'm talking about. I used to be like that myself. I drive by their farms everyday on my way in and out. But I'm sure there are none like that up north. I'm not talking about those who are in the hay selling business, I guess its good many still like to make hay or I wouldn't have nowhere to buy the few roll bales I do feed each year.


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## stockdogcompany (Jan 25, 2015)

myheaven said:


> Come live in north west wisconsin. Bring your herd of cows and we will see how many survive one winter up here its -37 today with windchill. Oh and the snow drifts are about 6 ft high. Your idea is just laughable!


It would be laughable to take southern cattle north. But I could buy northern cattle and do it just fine. With that much snow I don't have to worry about waterers either.

I had cattle out in 25-50 below plenty of times managing cattle in Michigan, Indiana, and the Dakotas. Grazing standing male sterile corn, stockpiled mixes of tall and short cover crop grasses, native tall prairie grass, etc. Short, fat hairy brood cows are furnaces on legs. Ever calculate how many btu's are in 30 pounds of dry matter forage? A helluva lot. Will graze a few bales behind shelter belts of trees or other wind breaks when snow gets ridiculous, but cows can dig through 8-16 inches pretty easy, and graze tall stuff like standing corn, sunflowers, milo, etc beyond that.

The ice storms of Appalachia and the Ozarks are much more deadly to outwintered cows than powder dry snow and low temps. Wet skin and dropping temps equal hypothermia much more quickly in those scenarios.

Watch and learn. Gabe has cows grazing in 40 below almost every winter at some point.

http://youtu.be/J_L5n4VnEXo

Anyone can talk, few can teach, fewer can really learn from others. I'm still trying to learn.


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## stockdogcompany (Jan 25, 2015)

sammyd said:


> You'll have to forgive me, I didn't know you knew most farmers...


Sammy, the average numbers for days of hay fed for cow-calf operators is nearly the same from the Gulf Coast to the Great Lakes. Most farmers do have a hay making mind set. They feed cows hay based upon their ability to make and store a certain volume of hay, not based on how much can be stored standing in their fields and strip grazed by their cows.

That is just from an USDA inventory data standpoint. Of course there is always a bell curve. Some fools hardly get off of hay, they are "burned up" all summer and "nothing there" all winter types. And there are folks who only feed for a few weeks unless there are severe blizzards, late summer and fall droughts,etc.

You should watch some of Jim Garrish's videos on youtube. I listened to him back when he and I were both in Missouri two decades ago. It's been of benefit to me in a host of states and climactic zones since.


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