# black LGD?



## colemangirly (Sep 30, 2010)

Okay, I posted this in the Guard Animal section but am hoping for a few more comments where there is more traffic.

Okay, There is a lady in the next town over from me that has 3 Pyr/Anatolian mix puppies she needs to find a home for. She got them about 2 months ago for her goats. She only had them in a pen next to goats. Shortly after she got them, she had to get rid of goats due to family health issues. So now my question is this. They are now 5 months old, never really been with the goats as they were young at first and then the goats left. They have been with chickens and are doing well. Is it too late for them to bond with the goats now? Or are they just chicken or pets at this point?

Also, I asked if they had long hair like Pyr or shorter like Anatolian. She said sort of inbetween but they were black with some white on them. EXCUSE ME???? black LGD? I never heard of a black Anatolian.

I have since found one other person that had a dark Anatolian crossed with their Pyr and some of the pups were black with some white, but I am a little leary. I don't want a lab or collie mix, but the price is right and they are close and I have plenty of time to work with a pup. However, don't want something that will have a "chase" instinct kick in.

What do you all think or have experienced?

Thanks
Tadpole Acres


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## thaiblue12 (Feb 14, 2007)

I would pass on them because the price is not right if they kill livestock, chase them to death etc. 

Anatolians and Pyrs do not come in black. I am not saying that it can never happen but is probably so unusual for even one to come out black let alone two. 

Dogs can be fertilized by more then one male ( same for cats and a few rare humans  ) So maybe some of the pups are crossed with Pyr then along came a lab or something and bred the ***** and 2 or so offspring are his. 

They are most likey not true LGD, they may become nuts with the two clashing breeds or they may make good farm dogs, but they would not be good and true LGD IMO if crossed with hunting or herding genes.


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## KSALguy (Feb 14, 2006)

i had a Pyr/Anatolian cross male for a long time that was white with big black spots, it can happen, i saw both the parrent dogs, the Pyr parrent had some light badger markings and the Anatolian had had black markings on the face and some scatterd black hairs through the body, i am not saying that these all black dogs are truely what she says they are, all i am saying is you can get black markings in the cross, 

i would go and LOOK and WATCH them at their home set up and see how they act, if they are truely LGD material they will adapt to the goats no problem,


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## HappyFarmer (Jun 17, 2006)

There is an Pyr breeder claiming purebred black pyrs. 

I wouldn't personally buy them - being it's so out of the ordinary I'd tend to think cross-breeding occured somewhere.

HF


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

Too many people misuse the term "LGD"

To them, any *mutt* that barks at strangers and doesn't kill your animals qualifies



> They are now *5 months old*, never really been with the goats


They are entering the age when they give the most problems, and are past the *prime* bonding age which is 8-16 weeks.

They are not much more likely to be GOOD LGD's than any random "pound hound", and in reality, there's no telling what genetics these animals truly have


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## WagleFarm (Feb 9, 2007)

I would think long and hard about these pups. A good price may not be so good when you have a pup chewing up your herd. Our goats are used to dogs and will not tolerate a rowdy pup. If you don't already have a dog with your herd, a calmer older dog that has been around goats would be better. If you have time to work with a pup, they might eventually make a good guardian. At the age of five months and not being around goats, I would think they would make better farm dogs then dedicated guardians.

There are black and white LGDs. We have two of them. They are Maremma/Anatolian cross.

Here is a link to our website. I have a page for the dogs if you would like to see pictures. http://ridgelysdairygoats.webs.com/


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## colemangirly (Sep 30, 2010)

WOW!! Those two boys don't look like LGD at all to me, amazing. Maybe I will look at the pups, but I doubt it. I hate to take a risk as I don't have an older dog to teach them the ropes. 

Tadpole Acres


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## WagleFarm (Feb 9, 2007)

I am always amazed when I watch the dogs work. They are very good at their job.


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## copperpennykids (Sep 6, 2004)

HappyFarmer said:


> There is an Pyr breeder claiming purebred black pyrs.
> 
> I wouldn't personally buy them - being it's so out of the ordinary I'd tend to think cross-breeding occured somewhere.
> 
> HF


Nope - not Great Pyrenees. Defective, basically.



> Correct Color - White dog with markings
> which should not exceed one-third of body.
> COLOR
> 
> ...


Here is the link (and all I did was Google Great Pyrenees breed standard): http://clubs.akc.org/gpca/gpcaistd.html

BTW, when you cross dogs, who knows what you are going to get, both color, temperament, correct structure, or size.


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## saanengirl (Apr 7, 2009)

The two males look like they may have some Border Collie or Australian Shepherd in them.


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## phantomriver (Nov 26, 2010)

When we were kids we had a purebred anatolian shepherd(imported parents) have an opps breeding with a registered non-black baby daddy (I think it was a golden retriever if I remember correctly) and EVERY puppy came out solid black. I think they all went to livestock guardian homes and did quite well. I would think the Pyr badger markings could come through as black with a cross. 

My dogs hadn't been with goats since they were puppies (6 years ago) but they have picked back up with them just fine. They were with horses for those years but the horses and dogs were not close friends like they are with the goats. My low horse on the pole enjoyed picking on the dogs since everyone wants someone to kick. The dogs roared at the goats coming of the trailer when we got goats again. So I was careful to introduce them and threatened to beat anyone who bites a goat and they got the message. The goats then kicked them out of their giant den they dug and they are all besties now. It is bred into them I think. If one is a bit quiet and reserved go with that one.


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## Fowler (Jul 8, 2008)

colemangirly said:


> Okay, I posted this in the Guard Animal section but am hoping for a few more comments where there is more traffic.


Sorry, but you are still getting the same responses that you got from the Guard Animal forum.

I suspect you were looking for a different answer?


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## WagleFarm (Feb 9, 2007)

Here is a quote from another forum discussing brindle color in other dogs.



> Perhaps a similar colour gene is at work to produce the blenheim cavalier
> and the white maremma? :
> 
> When a white Maremma
> ...


Anatolians also carry a gene for ticking. Here is a link talking about color genetics in the Anatolian.
http://www.anatoliandog.org/genetic.htm

Here is a link for another breeder that also has a cross of Maremma and Anatolian dogs. They are colored just like mine.
http://www.tylkeslittlecritters.ca/LGD.html


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## Fowler (Jul 8, 2008)

saanengirl said:


> The two males look like they may have some Border Collie or Australian Shepherd in them.


I agree and that's not a good mix.


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## PennyJ (Mar 31, 2008)

http://bar6diamondranch.com/lgdsinfo.html#THE NEED FOR THE "BLACK" GREAT PYRENEES

Scroll to the bottom of the page for info on the Black Pyrenees


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## Caprice Acres (Mar 6, 2005)

This is what I take from the situation...

So, there seems like there might be some black pyranees/LGD's out there. Those black pyrs just look like the result of someone crossing in some Newfie along the line somewhere... 

But, how likely is it to FIND one of these 'colored' LGD's? My bet is WAAAAYYYY less likely than having two sires to the litter, one being a local shepherd/lab/aussie/border collie/whoknowswhat. I'd steer clear.


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## colemangirly (Sep 30, 2010)

I was NOT looking for a different answer than from the Guard animal section. When I originally posted this I only had one response over there, thats all. I value all input and know that there is more activity in the Goat section and many of those people also have LGD's.

Trying to get all views gets you looked down upon.

Thanks for all the input


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## phantomriver (Nov 26, 2010)

Keeping a black dog that hairy cool around here in the summer could be a problem for some. My white dogs spend a lot of time in the water trough as it is. At least the Anatolians don't have quite as much hair. So an Anatolian crossed with a Pyr that came out black might not have it quite as rough as "all Pyr"


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## phantomriver (Nov 26, 2010)

PS I love my Pyrenees; I HATE their hair. I pick out the cockle burs for HOURS and they are all back in the next day. They say you shouldn't shave them but I get tempted.


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

> So, there seems like there might be* some black pyranees*/LGD's out there


Without the dogs being registered, and having* long pedigrees*, what you have is come black dogs that people *SAY* are Great Pyrenees.

No one wants to admit that any cross breed is a MUTT


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

> I pick out the cockle burs for HOURS and they are all back in the next day


The secret there is to* stop *picking them off the dogs and START picking them out of your pastures


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## copperpennykids (Sep 6, 2004)

PennyJ said:


> http://bar6diamondranch.com/lgdsinfo.html#THE NEED FOR THE "BLACK" GREAT PYRENEES
> 
> Scroll to the bottom of the page for info on the Black Pyrenees


Okay -- haven't read their "information" part yet, but just have to say - those are NOT Purebred Great Pyrenees. They have horrible breed character and type. They may make good LGD - but to call them Great Pyrenees is just wrong. They certainly can't register those dogs as Great Pyrenees with the AKC - they don't meet breed standard for color. 

Their heads are clearly not Great Pyrenees heads. Definitely mixed with something. And hey, if you want a "new" breed, by all means, make a new breed - just don't call it by an already established breeds' name!

Only dogs that actually look like Great Pyrenees are their Mature spayed females.

Okay - went and found their blurb about "Black" Great Pyrenees...



> Color: The assumption that the pure bred Pyrenean must be white is erroneous. The permitted colors are all-white or mainly white with markings of badger, gray or varying shades of tan, mainly on the head, or at the root of the tail. Badger, or blaireau, as it is called, is an admixture of brown, black, gray and white hairs and is common in puppies, but generally fades on maturity. Patches of pure black are not admitted in the show ring,


It nowhere says that "BLACK" Pyrenees are allowed - heck, patches of pure black are not allowed in the showring because it is a DQ! And nowhere on an AKC registration form do they have a category for black or black patched Pyrenees. 

They are misquoting the Pyrenees breed standard - 

FROM THE GREAT PYRENEES STANDARD: 



> Marked dogs and bitches are felt to be essential to a sound breeding program because they are advantageous to the maintenance of good pigmentation in the breed. Repeated generations of breeding all white to all white can result in weak or missing pigmentation.
> Usually, most of the markings are exhibited on the outer coat. However, some dogs also exhibit a marked or shaded undercoat, though most undercoats are white.


So there is a need for the Badger marked Pyrenees (or Blaireau, which just means that the markings on the ears or even faint red patch at the base of their tail did not fade as they reached adulthood) to keep the pigment strong.

You can also check the breed standard for Great Pyrenees in Europe - where the dog originated from - White, or white w/badger or blaireau markings.

Sorry to get so riled up, but this is just so NOT accurate, misleading, and plain WRONG. Those dogs are not Great Pyrenees - some other breed of dog is mixed in there. PERIOD.

PS Using the "encyclopedia" (why not use the best info resource to quote from - the Great Pyrenees standard used throughout the world) - if it is true that you can get a black patched puppy from a true Great Pyrenees bred to a true Great Pyrenees, you would never continue that breeding as the dog itself may be a nice dog, but as it doesn't meet breed standard, it can not be registered as a Great Pyrenees. Hence - it is NOT a Great Pyrenees - and should not be used in a breeding program as a Great Pyrenees. 

Just start your own breed for heaven's sakes!

Might as well decide that that Nubian/LaMancha cross with cute LaMancha ears is a Purebred Nubian and post it on your website. Doesn't make that goat a Purebred Nubian. Sheesh!


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## BarbadosSheep (Jun 27, 2011)

copperpennykids said:


> Okay -- haven't read their "information" part yet, but just have to say - those are NOT Purebred Great Pyrenees. They have horrible breed character and type. They may make good LGD - but to call them Great Pyrenees is just wrong. They certainly can't register those dogs as Great Pyrenees with the AKC - they don't meet breed standard for color.


The AKC does not care if a dog meets the breed standard or not. They are only a record keeping agency. If the owner has papers on both parents and they claim the pups are from those two registered parents, the AKC will register them. That being said....you can't SHOW a dog that does not meet the breed standard. There are people breeding AKC registered labrador retrievers that are silver!! There are people registering white german shepherds and spotted poodles too. Neither meet the breed standard but are still registerable. 

I do agree that the pyrs on that web site have something else in them to cause those colors to be so prominent. Who knows what!


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## copperpennykids (Sep 6, 2004)

You are right - the registry is only as good as the people registering the dogs. Same with Dairy goats.... 

But if you read the breed standard and follow the breed standard - those aren't Pure Great Pyrenees. Just sayin'.

Why folks need to purchase their animals from breeders they trust.


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## Rockytopsis (Dec 29, 2007)

Just thought I would post a few pictures of my mostly black Pyr/Nufie cross.
















the last one is of Austin and his goat pup Daisy
Nancy


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## andabigmac (Jan 10, 2011)

Um, Nancy... You may not want to let that dog in with your goats again. He is beautiful and really cute, but he doesn't throw pups that meet breed standards. I'm sure Daisy's cloven hooves and horns would be a definite dq in the show ring. Daisy may be a really good dog and that's great but it looks like Austin doesn't throw any genetics at all into the mix. That pup looks pure goat to me. 

Talk about starting a new breed! 

Cute pics!


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## Rockytopsis (Dec 29, 2007)

LOL Daisy was a bottle baby that took up with Austin when we weaned her. Poor critter does not know if she is goat, dog or baby.

Only posted that picture to show that some Pyr crosses are excelent LGS's. I chose him and his sister only because I knew the sire and dam and the owners of the dogs. I had hands on with the pups from the day they were born.

Nancy


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## copperpennykids (Sep 6, 2004)

> Only posted that picture to show that some Pyr crosses are excelent LGS's


I agree! I only am bothered by that website that claims that the "black dogs" are Pure Pyrenees and that Black Pyrenees are "needed" for the breed. Just a gross manipulation of what the breed standard truly says.

Why not just call them Pyr crosses and still sell them for $300.00 if they are excellent and proven LGDs?

Cute pic of both the dog and the goat - you can tell that Austin has a lot of patience .


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## BarbadosSheep (Jun 27, 2011)

copperpennykids said:


> You are right - the registry is only as good as the people registering the dogs. Same with Dairy goats....
> 
> But if you read the breed standard and follow the breed standard - those aren't Pure Great Pyrenees. Just sayin'.
> 
> Why folks need to purchase their animals from breeders they trust.


you are exactly right. Anyone who buys a dog needs to get one only from a trusted, reputable breeder! Anyone who is possession of a set of AKC parents can claim that pups are the result of breeding those two registered dogs together. The AKC has no way to confirm this....they are trusting that the information provided by the breeder is true. Most of the time it is....sometimes it's very wrong either by mistake or by intentional deception. That why so many registered dogs out there look nothing like the breed standard says they should look. It's really a shame.


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## Candace69 (Sep 24, 2011)

First off, plain and simple, I wouldnât get the ones asked about as they have never been around stock sufficiently. At this age, they in no way shape or form are an LDG; and from what you write, you do not have the experience to handle or understand an issue if it arises. I would suggest looking else where for LGDs that have actually been raised with stock. This is not coming down on you, itâs just the way youâve stated things in here. Iâve seen many a mistake made by people in situations similar to youâ¦.


Now, for the REASON I joined at the moment. I have a track on my site that logs visits. I see when people start talking about me, and about my animals. I joined specifically because of what is being said here about me and my dogs. I am the owner of Bar 6 Diamond Ranch Great Pyrenees INCLUDING the Black pyrs. 

It always amazes that there are many who ridicule the Black Great Pyrenees and ones who fancy they do not exist; and will vocalize and downgrade without even inquiring of the one who OWNS the animals. They try to deride them saying they are part newfie or part Border collie or some other "mutt" cross. Any cross but a true pyr cross would not have the true pyr characteristics and the true pyr desire to care for their charges; and I KNOW true pyr characteristics, physical and working characteristics. People say that a true pyr could not have black, but I am here to stand and say it can; and not hide it. I know because it is not acceptable and something to be âashamedâ. Iâve been told of those that will put them down at birth so as not to admit they were born; goat or dog, if it doesnât conform to standard. It was through a prejudiced mindset as this against the black pyr that they were almost wiped out; just as with the true Colored Angora. The color in the Angora was not accepted, so anything with color in the angora, as anything with black born in a litter of pyrs, was put down at birth so as not to upset the "standard". But now, I know of people getting COLOR from white to white breedings of Angoras, because it is now not so unaccepted and color is desired and people refused to hide it, but, the pure true colored angoras were almost wiped out! But due to select breeding, the color is coming back in the Angora. The same is true to the Beautiful Regal Black Great Pyr.

Have I seen registered black great pyrs? Yes! With Pedigrees? YES! 

The Great pyr is a French dog, and in the beginning over two decades, over 20 years ago, we had imported Great Pyrenees from an old and established kennel. As time went on the lady passed that owned the kennel. During the time of our relationship she passed valued information onto us that would continue to enhance and make us strive to learn and know more of this regal animal. Our current Great Pyrenees are, yes, not AKC by our choice. I would not touch an AKC pyr and put them with my stock. Does that offend that I say it? Sorry, but there are things I know about AKC pyrs that make me say it. But at least I state it to in open and not behind someoneâs back.

Anyway, it was from the wonderful woman who bred our girls and who Showed her dogs And Worked her dogs around the world that we learned our basics of Great Pyrenees and their original breed temperament and type. It is also from her that we learned why we would later choose to Not purchase AKC dogs for Our Endeavor. Our first two represented the Original Ideal of both American and French Great Pyrenees. From this we learned what to look for and what we were later to breed for. This is a French imported dog, so our decision was to stick to the French original old world style of Dog.

You say *âthose are NOT Purebred Great Pyrenees. They have horrible breed character and type. They may make good LGD - but to call them Great Pyrenees is just wrong. They certainly can't register those dogs as Great Pyrenees with the AKC - they don't meet breed standard for color. 

Their heads are clearly not Great Pyrenees heads. Definitely mixed with something. And hey, if you want a "new" breed, by all means, make a new breed - just don't call it by an already established breeds' name!â*

Yet, I KNOW breed character, I choose to not breed âAMERICANâ but âFRENCHâ character. I WILL NOT breed for American head or build. So I care that AKC doesnât allow the black? Heck no! AKC â The AMERICAN Kennel Club also prefers the AMERICANIZED head and build. I do not, I prefer the French head. I can give picture after picture of old French pyrs, of the old true style that have the EXACT head as mine, exact build as mine. Your opinion is my dogs do not fit your âAmericanâ standard, well, in my opinion; the Americanized dogs do not fit the standard of my Pyrs. The original build and the original look; so have your preference, yes, they are beautiful Pyrs, but do not deride someone else for NOT choosing to follow in those footsteps. 

To say my Great Pyrenees are definitely mixed with something, IMO, starts to open the door to slander or libel Iâd think. To defame my character and my lines that I have been working with in excess of 20 years is in bad taste to say the very least. 

Now, I am not coming in to cause a fight, but was I irritated at some of the comments? Yes, but my point in coming in is to state, donât speak of something that you do not have FULL knowledge of. Ask the person involved. If you have a question; or a concern, ASK. Respect each person, open the door to communication, but do not tear down because it is not what you choose to do. 

If you wish to see pictures of a few different styles of the pyr, type in Pyrenean Mountain Dog in an image search engine. You will see from the very refined head to the âAmericanâ blocky head. America calls them Great pyrs, but in other countries they are still referred to as Pyrenean Mountain Dogs.

One thing too, if you research the LGD breeds, you will find the breeds were created in a strain of mountains, on one side they created the Pyrenean Mountain Dog on the other the Kuvas in the valley, the Pyrenean mastiff and so forth across Europe as people and tribes traveled. Some of the breeds they enhanced the black coloration, some it was bred down. These are the lines the Pyrenean Mountain Dog comes from, to say that black is in no way shape or form part of the breed, takes all itâs history out of the equation. Look at the just the Landseer, the Pyrenean mastiff, or find other breeds who came form the same region as the Pyr. You will see the color is there in the LGD lines from those regions; so it is not out of thought that it IS truly part of the Pyrenean Mountain Dog. 

...I agree 100% with what was said about the registry, I have seen many times where the papers do not match the dog. I have AKC Dalmatians, I LOVE the breed and have had them since elementary school, the patch is "undesirable" and not allowed in show, but it has been in the breed since the breed was a breed. A patch dal is only not allowed in the "show" ring; but patch dogs are totally desirable with people, and there is nothing wrong with it with the exception of a person's opinion. I also have ABCA Borders that I use and work, I would never own an AKC Border. So each to his own. I choose to have AKC Dals, I choose to have ABCA Borders, I CHOOSE TO NOT deal with AKC pyrs and to HAVE PUREBRED UNREGISTERED Black, brown badger, wolf grey and the plain white pyr. MY CHOICE.

You state "breeders you can trust", funny, I stand behind all of my dogs and I have had repeat people come to me for them; refer people to me, specifically due to the way I am in my dealings. Again, making assumptions about my character and my animals? There is too much color in them? They cannot be Pyrs? Selective breeding brings things out in lines; I selected and looked for color and French style. Hmmmm... Purchase from a "breeder you trust".... 

I wish you the best in your endeavor. My pyrs and I thank you for the interest in them.
Candace Harding
*Proud Owner of the Black Great Pyrenees*
Bar 6 Diamond Ranch
Burdick, KS
www.bar6diamondranch.com


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## phantomriver (Nov 26, 2010)

Bearfootfarm said:


> The secret there is to* stop *picking them off the dogs and START picking them out of your pastures


Why has no one told me this before??
:teehee:


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## Candace69 (Sep 24, 2011)

For kicks and giggles, I pulled some info for you see how different the pyr is from one country to the next. âManipulationâ of the breed standard? Which? The American or the French? They were originally French Dogs, we manipulated the Great pyr standard, as we (people in America) have with numerous other breeds over the years.

The thing with the pyr, is that it is the driest (or was) of the large breeds. The French Head is tighter lipped, more refined, think of like a French Poodle, some can be pretty extreme. But then you take what gets to be extreme in the American head, it can be very blocky. In mine, Denlaie has a mid point in the two, IMO, that's the way I call it. He is tight lipped, and yet, some what blocky in his head. Joy is more Frenchie than True, and True is a little more Square/American. My most Frenchie male I ever used was Retro. I like the Frenchie because they don't drool; but not the extreme frenchie. You will hear people say they like the dryer mouthed pyrs, what they don't realize is they are referring to the French style. 








Here is a Pretty Extreme French style, it;s a Finnish Champion I believe.








Then you can get the really really extreme head.








You will see both heads appear in Europe and here, the difference is, in Eurpoe, they choose to breed the French style, in American, they go for the blocky one. On this one, you can see how fleshy and loose his lips are. That is what causes the drooling, what I do not like or breed for. 

Blockier head on a pup, the American style









French style









And here, if you look at these or any others, pics taken from European sites

















This is am American champion, if I took Denalie, or True or even Freya, and posed them, groomed them froo froo'ed them, they'd look an awful lot like this....


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## PennyJ (Mar 31, 2008)

Great information, Candace69! Thanks for sharing your knowledge on this issue. :goodjob:


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## Goat Servant (Oct 26, 2007)

Thanks for enlightening me for one Candace, very interesting!


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## Candace69 (Sep 24, 2011)

YW, Just did a search on Montagne des PyrÃ©nÃ©es which is Great Pyrenese in French, and found these two links. Do a translate. They are showing off their Pyr; their Patou, Grand pyrÃ©nÃ©en, Pyrenean Mountain Dog. It's black and white. 

http://wamiz.com/chiens/chien-de-mo...30/forum/erkos-6-mois-aujourd-hui-1451/2.html

Or, on this farm, their "Patou" is I would say. Black and white? 
http://le-calmadou.over-blog.com/article-5073338.html


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## Rockytopsis (Dec 29, 2007)

Wish I were closer, I would love to see Candaces dogs work, I have seen many many pictures of them.
Nancy


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## Kshobbit (May 14, 2002)

Anatolian Shepards are not white. I have a brindle Anatolian and got him when he was 9 months old. He had never been around farm animals. He turned out to be one of the best LGD's I ever had. He is almost 12 years old and still a great dog. If the dogs are Great Pyr/Anatolian crosses they would be colored.
Apparently the Anatolians in Turkey are a variety of colors esp Brindle. So there is a possibility of getting a black LGD. I think there is way too much crossing of the many many breeds of LGDs. They are blurring the lines of the breeds. Saying that my new replacement LGD is an Anatolian/Great Pyrenees cross. She looks more Anatolian than Great Pyr and she is a great dog.
You never know how good any LGD will be until they have been out with the herd. I have had some real stupid worthless ones that killed and ate my baby goats.


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## Candace69 (Sep 24, 2011)

Kshobbit said:


> Anatolian Shepards are not white. I have a brindle Anatolian and got him when he was 9 months old. He had never been around farm animals. He turned out to be one of the best LGD's I ever had. He is almost 12 years old and still a great dog. If the dogs are Great Pyr/Anatolian crosses they would be colored.
> Apparently the Anatolians in Turkey are a variety of colors esp Brindle. So there is a possibility of getting a black LGD. I think there is way too much crossing of the many many breeds of LGDs. They are blurring the lines of the breeds. Saying that my new replacement LGD is an Anatolian/Great Pyrenees cross. She looks more Anatolian than Great Pyr and she is a great dog.
> You never know how good any LGD will be until they have been out with the herd. I have had some real stupid worthless ones that killed and ate my baby goats.


That's just it, with the color or anything else, ppl think the American standard is the only standard. Research back and you will see things that surprise you within any breed. 

The last thing you stated, part of the reason I avoid certain things with the pyr. Now, I have not had any issues with any of mine, oh, sometimes the normal little correction issues....but nothing really I even have to worry about.

Though I think crosses do fine as LGDs, I do agree and think it's out of hand in some instances.... I personally am sticking to the purebred.


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## Candace69 (Sep 24, 2011)

Had a little more I though I'd share....

You can have it from one extreme








To the other

















You know, it's well known and accepted that there are patches on a dal, but it is a "disqualifying" fault on them. But only in the ring, it used to be accepted in the ring, then they started to think it didn't look good, so wanted to get rid of it. but there was NOTHING wrong with it.....They are actually seeing now that the patch on the dal seems to negate the deafness.... Hmmmm...get rid of one thing start having issues with another? Boy we're smart.

When I was out perusing this weekend, I stumbled across a french page with the French standard; it gets a little hard with other languages, but I did find this blub, they consider:
*Disqualifying Faults: Patches of black hair down to the root. *
hmmm...If it's NOTED, then apparently it's seen? Even if they don't LIKE it? Wouldn't you say? 

Anyway, with the look and me. I personally LOVE the somewhat blocky head, but hate the drooling, don't care for the extreme French look. So, what I have shot for in my lines over the last 20 years plus is actually a "happy medium". Dry mouthed, tight lipped from the French, with a little blockiness; is it a show standard? Maybe, I've seem them with this style, but it IS part of the breed. It's what I shot for, and I am now seeing in my lines.. So? what is the difference in shooting for things? That's what they do IN the ring! Thatâs what everyone breeds for IN their animals, what they want! 
To me, I LOVE Denalie, his head is square, lips tight, to me, a good melding of the two extreme styles








You know too what cracks me up, is depending on time of year, age, coat, etc etc, they look different, the angle....For example; these are my pics of True on the site.








and this was here about 2 weeks ago. same dog, different angle, different time of year, different age.








From one day to the next, everything can change, is you froo frro or dont, pose or don't.....
Nice chatting with everyone,
Candace Harding
Bar 6 Diamond Ranch
Home of Great Pyrenees as LGDs, All color, including Black 
Burdick, KS
www.bar6diamondranch.com


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## Fowler (Jul 8, 2008)

colemangirly said:


> I was NOT looking for a different answer than from the Guard animal section. When I originally posted this I only had one response over there, thats all. I value all input and know that there is more activity in the Goat section and many of those people also have LGD's.
> 
> Trying to get all views gets you looked down upon.
> 
> Thanks for all the input


I honestly meant well, sorry if you took offense.


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## crazygoatgal (Jan 15, 2008)

andabigmac said:


> Um, Nancy... You may not want to let that dog in with your goats again. He is beautiful and really cute, but he doesn't throw pups that meet breed standards. I'm sure Daisy's cloven hooves and horns would be a definite dq in the show ring. Daisy may be a really good dog and that's great but it looks like Austin doesn't throw any genetics at all into the mix. That pup looks pure goat to me.
> 
> Talk about starting a new breed!
> 
> Cute pics!


ound: Like I have said before, you are really funny!!! 

I love the pic of the dog and his "puppy". That shot is a prize winner. My personal favorite breed of dog is the Newfie. Any newfie cross is ok by me.


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## BarbadosSheep (Jun 27, 2011)

Kshobbit said:


> Anatolian Shepards are not white. I have a brindle Anatolian and got him when he was 9 months old. He had never been around farm animals. He turned out to be one of the best LGD's I ever had. He is almost 12 years old and still a great dog. If the dogs are Great Pyr/Anatolian crosses they would be colored.
> Apparently the Anatolians in Turkey are a variety of colors esp Brindle. So there is a possibility of getting a black LGD. I think there is way too much crossing of the many many breeds of LGDs. They are blurring the lines of the breeds. Saying that my new replacement LGD is an Anatolian/Great Pyrenees cross. She looks more Anatolian than Great Pyr and she is a great dog.
> You never know how good any LGD will be until they have been out with the herd. I have had some real stupid worthless ones that killed and ate my baby goats.


Actually, Anatolians do come in white. Any color is acceptable in this breed. And in Turkey, there is no breed of dog called Anatolian Shepherd. ASDs were developed from Turkish dogs of similar type, known in Turkey as Coban Kopegi which translates to "shepherd's dog" but they are not a Turkish creation.


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