# can u can cheese?



## rod&chas (Jan 17, 2011)

We found a semi soft cheese with added peppers in bulk bags at the grocery for $1.00/lb. It doesnt melt real well unless milk is added but has a great taste. So, to me, this is a great deal. Has anyone ever canned cheese like this? And if so would I can it like it is or should I add my milk to thin it some? Or could I do it both ways?


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## Canning Girl (Jan 13, 2010)

Cheese cannot/should not be canned at home. Canning any dairy is a no-no. Besides the health concerns (botulism), I doubt that the end product would be satisfactory.


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## jwal10 (Jun 5, 2010)

Can you freeze it? May change the texture but not the taste....James


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## judylou (Jun 19, 2009)

As Canning Girl said, no dairy products can be safely canned per the guidelines. But yes you can freeze cheese but with mixed results. Grated/shredded hard cheeses tolerate it well but soft cheeses tend to be very mushy when thawed. Taste is ok but appearance and texture are affected.


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## silverbackMP (Dec 4, 2005)

Hard cheese is acidic. Jakie Clay cans it with good results. I don't think I would use a soft cheese but I would have no issue with canning a mild hard cheese and keeping it a cool location. How is that any different than using cheese wax? Still deprives it of O2. Same method (wax that is) that has been used for hundreds if not thousands of years. Start out with mild and it will probably be sharp by eating time. 

Use the search button, I believe that there are some threads on this.


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## Lucy (May 15, 2006)

The ph of cheese is hardly acidic, it is low acid. It is also too thick and dense, not to mention full of fat/oil. When you melt cheese, all sorts of oil oozes out.
Sorry, but it is not safe. Jackie Clay, as far as I know, has no food preservation safety training. Why would a person trust something so important as your health and even possibly your life with someone who has no training in such matters ? It is like letting a mechanic do brain surgery on you... you go to the ones who are trained in that area.


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## silverbackMP (Dec 4, 2005)

If it is so unsafe, explain how cheese wax and storing cheese for six months to year in cool area and letting it age is safe. Same thing. Heck, some cheeses aren't even used with cheese wax for aging--they just cut off the mold/rind. I'm not saying you want to store this stuff for years in an unisulated garage but I think 6-12 months would be acceptable at 60 degrees would be safe and there is plenty of historical and current examples of this.


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## judylou (Jun 19, 2009)

> If it is so unsafe, explain how cheese wax and storing cheese for six months to year in cool area and letting it age is safe.


Because cheese stored in that fashion is still exposed to O2 and botulism cannot grow, reproduce, and produce toxin in an oxygen environment. Botulism grows only in low O2 or an anaerobic environment. Cheese wax is not airtight nor does it create a vacuum as canning does. 

If spores exist in the food and they are not killed by the processing (as happens with very dense foods) then sealed in a canning jar is the perfect environment for botulism growth and toxicity.

Jackie Clay writes about several canning practices that are considered unsafe per lab testing. To give her fair credit, she often points out that some of her practices have potential problems and risks and the reader should consult the official guidelines. But far too many of her readers ignore that advice when it is given.


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## Pelenaka (Jul 27, 2007)

Buy as much of it as u can for barter & gift giving. 
Even if freezing changes the texture it would still be good for cooking.
Once a year we buy a hundred pounds of cheese @ a buck a pound. One year it was Swiss, last year it was a mild sharp, nacho style, and a few others. Freezing changed the texture but @ these prices we can't complain.

I've thought about about Clay & her canning of cheese, but decided that any savings derived from not running a freezer would soon be wiped out by hospital & funeral costs.


~~ pelenaka ~~


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## praieri winds (Apr 16, 2010)

I bought some gallons of cheese sauce on sale I then put it into smaller containers and froze it the end product needed a little milk and some whipping when I thawed it out but the taste was the same I also dehydrated some cheese I made powder out of it then put it back in dehydrator to make sure it was dryed real well put it into a jar and sealed it with my foodsaver jar vac a few days later I put some milk in it and warmed it up a little worked out real good


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## joyfulheart (Mar 26, 2009)

Ive canned it. MANY (not all but many) LDS wards hand out recipes on how to can cheese and recommend it.

My LDS gave me instructions with the note that it's not FDA approved, but they do it here.

the instructions are identical to Jackie Clay's.


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## judylou (Jun 19, 2009)

> MANY (not all but many) LDS wards hand out recipes on how to can cheese and recommend it.


I am really sorry to hear that. I would have expected a much more responsible approach from such a prestigious organization. Apparently the risks have been called to their attention but for whatever reason they have chosen to disregard them.

Choosing to use risky canning procedures for oneself is one thing. We each have that right. But advocating, even instructing others in how to do it is something else entirely. None of us have the right to intentionally mislead or encourage risky practices in others.


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## Aseries (Feb 24, 2011)

I would can Cheese, only thing is I'm not a fan of Cheese or the FDA. One must note the FDA also says raw milk is bad to. I firstly dont believe everything on earth is covered with botulism spores. I seriously wonder about FDA, or peoples irrational fears, you will risk your life in traffic. But dont can the cheese, drivings got greater risk of death I would think...lol

I wonder because I watched a documentary on food, and in that documentary it stated, the commercial cannery canned corn for something like 18 min at like 180 degrees. Yet the FDA recommends I have to can corn in a pressure canner for like 30plus minutes at temps close to 250 degrees.

Jackie clay may not be a food scientist, but there are somethings the have been done for years, that yeah like walking you could die from it, but people still do it, because the risk is alot lower than getting killed from something else in everyday life.

I mean yeah its do it at your own risk, but I have a bigger chance of dying as a fire fighter from a heart attack or toxic smoke, than canning cheese.

I think yeah the FDA is great sometimes, but the FDA isnt god either, nor are the testing methods. There is no way to gurantee 100% safe food. I think the FDA needs to do more work in inspecting meats, and ecoli in vegetables. 

I worry more about eating fresh vege's than meats, why? I shouldnt even have to explain, just look at the numerous recalls on things. 

If they can store and age cheese in a bottom of a lake, or in caves. Why cant I or anyone else store cheese in wax, in a cool dark place. 

Just my 2 cents, nothing personal... Oh and I can bacon, FDA not approved. lol


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## judylou (Jun 19, 2009)

Aseries - the FDA has nothing to do with it.  Our parent organization is the USDA but they have only indirect controls via some funding. All other funding and all research is multi-university based.

_The National Center for Home Food Processing and Preservation was established with funding from the Cooperative State Research, Education and Extension Service (CSREES-USDA) in 2000 as a multi-institutional effort with The University of Georgia and Alabama A&M University as the primary institutions. Expert scientists in home food preservation from industry and eight other U.S. universities comprised an advisory committee for the Center. 

_


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## Canning Girl (Jan 13, 2010)

It is incomprehensible to me why anyone would risk the lives of their family members by canning things that they know are not 100% safe. Just because you CAN do something doesn't mean you SHOULD. The risk is not worth the reward. Period. I suppose if you choose to eat canned bacon or milk or cheese or butter or anything else for which there is not an approved processing procedure/time that is your prerogative. Darwin's theory of natural selection comes to mind. However, if you feed these products to your family members or friends without warning them of the risks, passing the food off as safe, you are criminally negligent. Is your stubbornness worth watching your child be paralyzed or killed by botulism? You can drive 100 mph without a seatbelt every day too, and it might not kill you--until it does. 

I'm sorry to come off so strong, but I see people day after day ignoring the advice of judylou and others, advice that is based on sound food science and research, simply because Jackie Clay or great-grandma or whoever has done it. Judylou, you are a saint for patiently explaining this to one person after another without losing your temper. Hats off to you. I'm climbing off my soapbox now.


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## judylou (Jun 19, 2009)

Thanks Canning Girl! It does get discouraging now and then and I have been known to edit a post now and then too to tone my response down a bit.  But like you, much of it is incomprehensible to me. Such risks, with no justification other than to prove that it "can" be done", defy logic.

Aseries -


> the commercial cannery canned corn for something like 18 min at like 180 degrees


I neglected to add that the processing time you questioned, which is essentially pasteurization - 30 mins. at 180-185 degrees F - are sometimes used by commercial canners because the foods are irradiated first, something we cannot do at home. The cans are then vacuum sealed under high pressure. So the methods - commercial and home canning - are not really comparable.


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## Macybaby (Jun 16, 2006)

this post is a good example of why I won't accept canned foods from most individuals - only if I know them well and know their practices.

They can take all the risks they want, but I don't like it when they get upset that I'm not willing to take the same risks. We all have our own comfort level. 

The bad part is most of theses same people have never done any research on their own to learn about what you want to accomplish in canning, or what the dangers are. Like the saying - ignorance is bliss.


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## Horseyrider (Aug 8, 2010)

Macybaby, I feel as you do. I'm really picky about who I take home canned food from; and I'd never buy it at a farmer's market. I only feel comfortable with people who process their food in a way I trust.

Judylou, I also agree that you and Lucy too show extraordinary restraint and patience. As you know, I too used to can recipes of my own creation. I thought that as long as I processed the product for as long as the longest ingredient in it (usually meat) then I was safe. But I feel that what was going on is I was playing Russian roulette with a really big gun. One bullet in the chamber with many empty spots; I spin the chamber and serve dinner. Click. Another dinner and another spin. Click. I was so fortunate that nothing ever happened to me or mine based on my mistakes. 

So yes I ate these things and lived, just like Jackie Clay and folks' grandmothers. But when you know better, you do better. And now because I choose to only use approved recipes my risk is reduced, and it's a lot less likely I'll ever find that bullet when I spin the chamber. 

What I can't understand is how people can know this and still choose to use unapproved recipes. These people aren't trying to wreck our fun or keep certain foods from us; they just want us to be safe, and are working hard to bring meaningful information to the table for us to use.


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## Lucy (May 15, 2006)

It is for the folks like you, Horseyrider, Macybaby, CanningGirl, and the others of you who are willing to learn and have a good attitude that keeps us going. For those great posts, I thank you all ! 
JudyLou is right, too, somedays it is really hard, but we do care and want to help all of you. We are canners, just like you. I know it would be fun to be able to can something different, but we are not willing to take risks since we know better. 
If I want to have something different, then I can change the flavor of the foods or use in a different way once I open them up. I can add my bacon, or oil, or butter, or cream when I open things up. At least I have a good stockpile of foods and a starting point for a quick, cheap meal. 
With cheese, I grate it and freeze it. Works so well and is really handy. Paying a dollar a pound is amazingly cheap ! How nice for you. 
Oh, and it is interesting, each year we have quite a few LDS members take our courses. They then go to their wards and teach the information to the others. None of them have said they can the cheese or have that particular information there. I was surprised when they started taking our courses since I thought that food preservation would have been something many of them knew and already taught. Not around here, they don't, so they take my classes. I find them to pay really close attention, and ask a lot of questions. The truly want to learn. I find them really great to have in the classes. They in turn, taught me about the mylar bags and O2 absorbers. I have found that to be a really valuable thing to have learned for dry storage. We share bits of information back and forth.
I am looking forward to starting our new training sessions next week !


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## praieri winds (Apr 16, 2010)

I only give jams,jellies and pickles as gifts these I feel safe with I have given dehydrated veg sometimes I haven't gotten into pressure canning yet yet and may not if I can't change over to a gas stove I really appreciate all of the information I get on this thread and the HT site


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## Aseries (Feb 24, 2011)

"It is incomprehensible to me why anyone would risk the lives of their family members by canning things that they know are not 100% safe."

No disrespect to anyone but its all about acceptable risk, and the USDA sorry for saying FDA, (must be the canned bacon getting to me). But the top statement makes me laugh, 100% safe show me anything thats 100% safe. 

Nothing food related is 100 percent safe from killing us. I just wonder how paranoid people are. Yes we wouldnt want to give botulism to our kids or family. No one would willingly do it, nor would I give anything to any of my kids thats not 100% safe. But I've learned we give things to kids based on acceptable risk, because if you believe things are 100% safe, your living in la la land.

Dont get me wrong here, I follow instructions because personally killing myself isnt a thought, but I do can bacon. But whether I do it, or some company does it, dont make anything safe, just look at recent ecoli outbreaks.

But I do wonder thinks like how rampant and naturally occuring is botulism? Meaning did anyone do a study to see if these spores are everywhere, do they lurk constantly in my house ready at any moment to infect my food. 

I know a man who eats food out of the garbage in the city. Its rotten, its been in there sometimes days. How come he isnt paralized or dying, though he does get sick.

But back to cheese, where I live we eat curd cheese thats not refrigerated and left in bags for weeks at the store. Yet in Massachusetts where I went to school, its illegal. 

Risks are reduced, but they are definately not 100% gone. Canning cheese though, meh I like those risk free kraft singles that got lots of the risky chemicals in it that are going to kill me in the long term lol lol..


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## Canning Girl (Jan 13, 2010)

Aseries, when I wrote the 100% I knew that someone would jump on it; thank you for not disappointing me. The last thing I will say about this to you or anyone else who insists on using unsafe practices and procedures is that you are welcome to can whatever you want for as little time as you want at as little pressure as you want. Just don't feed it to anyone else.


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## Lucy (May 15, 2006)

The bacon question was thoroughly checked into by my boss and a few others from different extension offices. They asked Dr. Elizabeth Andress at the Univ. of Georgia, which is the home to the NCHFP. She wrote the USDA canning guidelines. She said it is very unsafe to can bacon at home. Just to let you know it was checked out and the answer provided by someone with a PHD in Food Science . 
Something sealed in an airtight jar and something that is not is what makes the difference for the growth of botulism. Botulism is a different form of food borne illness than say salmonella, ecoli, listeriosis, campylobactor, etc. 
Botulism will grow in the absence of air, as in a sealed jar. That is it's "happy home". 
We can eat the spores in the natural state, as on a carrot, for example, because it has not had the totally airtight environment for the spores to be able to grow into the toxin. 
That would be why your friend gets really sick, but has not died from it yet. Don't take me wrong, botulism is not the only deadly type of food poisoning that can kill a person. 
We all know that ecoli and others can and have killed as well. 
We don't need to be paranoid about botulism, just educated in how it grows and how to avoid it by proper processing and using safe, tested recipes.


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## judylou (Jun 19, 2009)

To quote the old saw, "You can lead a horse to water but you can't make him drink."

When someone doesn't want to get the point then they aren't going to get it no matter what we say. 

Some people can always find a way to rationalize why he/she is doing something even when they know is wrong.


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## Just Cliff (Nov 27, 2008)

Why is it we can not discuss canning cheese in a *public discussion forum*? If you don't like what is being said on this subject move on to another thread instead of insult and try to belittle those that would like to advance their canning skills. I would like to hear more about it and how different people may do it. 
Yeah. We all get it. If we don't follow the guidlines we are going to hell. 

Now can we get on with the Discussion? 

joyfulheart: Can you post the dirrection the LDS has handed out?


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## Aseries (Feb 24, 2011)

Firstly, Canning Girl, lets get one thing straight, no disrespect intended in this thread, to me its just a discussion. But do you really think everything in the Ball Blue book and current canning practices are 100% safe. Because 20 years ago the same people who made the guidelines were 100% safe. And 20 years before that they thought the same, and we can keep going.

I would like to know what does the USDA and the people who wrote the guidelines on canning think of the commercially canned products. Did they test those methods? I mean if a commercial canner canner can make canned cheese, whats so special about there methods.

I have a friend who commercially makes BBQ Sauce, you know what. I think the Ball books methods are more strict than how he does it. He dont have to use a pressure canner, no boiling bath canner nothing. Makes me wonder?

I'd like someone to post how they commercially can Cheese and how someone does it at home, along side with bacon, ok maybe not in this thread but it would be interesting to see. 

Lastly, no disrespect to anyone here, theres tons of valuable information in here. But after being a Fire Fighter for over 15 years, I've seen to many people die from 100% safe products. 

oh and yeah if we dont follow the guidelines, yep were all going to hell lol...


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## Lucy (May 15, 2006)

When you have multimillion dollar equipment in your home, compared to a $100 - $200 canner you would have now, then you can safely can all the cheese and bacon you want ! 
You are not comparing things that are equal in the way they are processed. Besides, they irradiate a lot of stuff before it is canned commercially. They also have chemicals added that we don't add at home to make those products safe . That is the beauty of home canning, no preservatives.
If you want to know how they can cheese commercially, then you will need to do a web search. Of course the USDA did not test the commercial products. They deal with safe HOME food processing. It is tested, and tested months later, and tested again and again. As I said above, the bacon canning was addressed by Elizabeth Andress. 
One way you may go to hell early is if you die from botulism from not using the proper methods and recipes, LOL. 
Teaching food preservation and food safety is what I do as a profession, so I feel confident in what I post as safe or unsafe. It is up to each person to either follow the methods or not. You get to choose.... We are not coming to your house to see if you did it right. Only you can decide what risks you want to take.


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## Karen (Apr 17, 2002)

Okay guys, enough with the canning debate. We've been arguing these points in just about every other thread for years when it comes canning items not in the usual canning books, Jackie's methods, or pressure vs. water bath. It's each to their own and the USDA does not know everything either. People have been using alternative methods since canning began and each debate has valid points that have been discussed to death. 

If you wish to put a disclaimer, just simply say it is not recommended and give a link if you wish; but I'm calling off the canning police in the future. I'll post a sticky to that effect.


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## Becka03 (Mar 29, 2009)

Karen said:


> Okay guys, enough with the canning debate. We've been arguing these points in just about every other thread for years when it comes canning items not in the usual canning books, Jackie's methods, or pressure vs. water bath. It's each to their own and the USDA does not know everything either. People have been using alternative methods since canning began and each debate has valid points that have been discussed to death.
> 
> If you wish to put a disclaimer, just simply say it is not recommended and give a link if you wish; but I'm calling off the canning police in the future. I'll post a sticky to that effect.


thank you- I was beginning to avoid this area of HT because of the belittling and feeling like if you asked for something NOT in the BlueBook you were asking for directions on how to microwave a baby!


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## joyfulheart (Mar 26, 2009)

Just Cliff said:


> joyfulheart: Can you post the dirrection the LDS has handed out?



I have 6 boys here on a sleepover and I cant get to my notebook right now. LOL (i'm hiding out in my room--HA!)
I'll try to get on sat night or sunday and post the recipe for ya! (with a disclaimer, LOL)


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## Just Cliff (Nov 27, 2008)

joyfulheart said:


> I have 6 boys here on a sleepover and I cant get to my notebook right now. LOL (i'm hiding out in my room--HA!)
> I'll try to get on sat night or sunday and post the recipe for ya! (with a disclaimer, LOL)


You must be a joyfulheart to have 6 boys on a sleepover and still be able to laugh about it!!!!!!!!! :clap:


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