# Upstate NY Codes



## Tango

Howdy Friends, am looking for a small piece of land to do a little hobby-type farming and simple living and found some nice parcels in upstate ny. They are relatively inexpensive and very agriculture friendly so attractive in that sense. 

I'm having a very hard time speaking to anyone in that neck of the woods regarding their zoning laws and was wondering if anyone here could help me. Are there generally minimum square footage requirements that would prohibit a tiny home? What I've read online is that the entire state has minimum square footage requirements but haven't found information on what those are. Are they composting toilet friendly? 

Anyone from upstate NY have any encouraging words about their area, or discouraging words on their area? Many thanks.


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## simi-steading

I can't answer your question, but if'n it was me, and if'n I had the ability to look in another state, I would... NY has too many draconian laws, and seems to be a control freak state. I'd say it's almost as bad as California in ways..


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## Tango

Thanks  After waiting two weeks and three calls to the code dept. of a particular township, i decided to call the ag ext. office with my questions and discovered the minimum sf. is 900 ft. so seems like not a possibility for a tiny house. Will keep looking. :hobbyhors


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## JWK

I live in central New York. The state has building codes. Each county must follow the state's codes, but can add more stringent requirements. Then each township can add on to that. So without knowing even which county you're referencing, I can't help you. I can tell you that you should fully check out a county first. The rural townships tend to follow a trickle-down type philosophy.


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## Helena

Check into Pa near the border of NY state. Prices, taxes and gun laws are much better but look also, into the gas well drilling and mineral rights on any land. Think you would do much better in Pa ..Good Luck and let are know how you do..


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## Tango

JWK said:


> I live in central New York. The state has building codes. Each county must follow the state's codes, but can add more stringent requirements. Then each township can add on to that. So without knowing even which county you're referencing, I can't help you. I can tell you that you should fully check out a county first. The rural townships tend to follow a trickle-down type philosophy.


Was looking at Herkimer, Fulton and Montgomery counties. Not looking so much anymore but will still investigate if any interesting parcels come along. Hard to beat Missouri for freedom in building a homestead though....


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## Tango

Helena said:


> Check into Pa near the border of NY state. Prices, taxes and gun laws are much better but look also, into the gas well drilling and mineral rights on any land. Think you would do much better in Pa ..Good Luck and let are know how you do..


Thank you. I'll look.


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## Micheal

As posted by JWK (and liked by The MartianChick) you are trying to get the right person (dept) - the local (town) codes person. Funny though that you haven't heard back as yet. What area are you looking into?

I sorta question that 900 sq foot house restriction? Have a couple of summer homes/camps/cabins/etc in my area that don't come anywhere near 900 sq feet of living area and that's even if you included the front porch............

Funny that the real estate agent isn't doing more to help you - like getting you answers, or at least rousting the codes person to give you answers....... or aren't you in contact with an agent????

As to those that don't live in NYS and are casting stones - I'm sure we NYers could find problems with your state if'n we wanted to, but why waste the time. We all live where we live - most by choice......... (PEACE, please)


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## unregistered168043

No, wait a minute there is something wrong. I am familiar with a couple of builders in NYS that build small camps of about 400+ square feet. 

Here's one; http://www.landandcamps.com/camps-we-build The algonquin style cabin is 192 square feet. They build exclusively in New York State.

I've lived in many states. New York state doesn't have any more "draconian laws" than any other state. In fact they tend to be less draconian than many western states. I would contact that builder that I posted, they would be very knowledgeable about codes in the area you are looking at. I dont know why you would ask an ag ext. agent about zoning requirements.


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## Micheal

Tango said:


> Was looking at Herkimer, Fulton and Montgomery counties. Not looking so much anymore but will still investigate if any interesting parcels come along. Hard to beat Missouri for freedom in building a homestead though....


 Know the area - which township(s) were you looking into?


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## Tango

Micheal said:


> Know the area - which township(s) were you looking into?


The one with the nonresponsive code officer is Root Township in Montgomery County. I called the county planning office and was given the name and number of a seoncd code officer and called him yesterday and left a message  will see. The seller's agent told me he has gotten permits and bulit many smaller cabins (though not as small as I would like to build) but he didn't mentioned this town or county specifically. 

I am not working with a buyer's agent right now since I have not really focused on one area but am looking at different states: NY, Maine, KY, and MO more than others. Very grateful for everyone's comments, suggestions and advice. All help is very much appreciated.


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## boxwoods

I'm in Delaware County, and they are still building small cabins near me. I would say in the 600 sq ft area. Taxes are cheap next to other Counties. NY City watershed owns a lot of land here and they pay a good part of the taxes.It is probably the poorest County in the State also.  Not many jobs in this area and its nearly 20 miles to anything. I like it here and wouldn't move anywhere else.


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## Lisa in WA

TANGO!!! I didn't know you were back! How are you?


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## katlupe

I live in Chenango county and there are a lot of small camps in my area. Our outhouse was "grandfathered" in since we never had a regular bathroom. A church near us put a composting toilet in their outhouse. Look for hunting camps in the forest areas. There are more than few for sale near me and they are small too. Taxes are low for us, our water is great (so far) and our area is very green and beautiful. Depends on the county you choose. Do you already have an idea of where you want to live? Do you want to build your own house or would you buy one already set up?


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## Tango

LisaInN.Idaho said:


> TANGO!!! I didn't know you were back! How are you?


Hey  had some recent ups and downs but overall still kickin' . Nice to be back. Hope all is well over yonder


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## Lisa in WA

Tango said:


> Hey  had some recent ups and downs but overall still kickin' . Nice to be back. Hope all is well over yonder


things are well and I'm glad to hear you're still kickin'.


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## Umble

Our land (which is for sale, btw) is in Oswego County. We have a 320 Sq ft cabin on it, completely off grid with a composting toilet. We haven't had any problems with the permit guy about it. It really depends where you are, and who you deal with.


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## misguidedute

Tango said:


> Howdy Friends, am looking for a small piece of land to do a little hobby-type farming and simple living and found some nice parcels in upstate ny. They are relatively inexpensive and very agriculture friendly so attractive in that sense.
> 
> I'm having a very hard time speaking to anyone in that neck of the woods regarding their zoning laws and was wondering if anyone here could help me. Are there generally minimum square footage requirements that would prohibit a tiny home? What I've read online is that the entire state has minimum square footage requirements but haven't found information on what those are. Are they composting toilet friendly?
> 
> Anyone from upstate NY have any encouraging words about their area, or discouraging words on their area? Many thanks.


Town of Root allows outhouses and is fairly open for codes, see the number of Amish living there and doing many things in non standard ways. I live on the edge Southern edge of Root and own a second piece of land over towards Canajoharie, both in Montgomery County. 
The building code guy for the town can be a putz, but he can be worked with. I imagine a composting toilet would be fine if you showed him other areas where this worked/is allowed. Any questions you think I can help with let me know.


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## farmgal

It is true of the 900 sf law. I just built a new home. There are variances you can apply for. It is dependent on where you plan to build. You could present a proposal for what you desire that isnt quite "code" and the board will review it and can give you a variance. Say you want to build a straw bale home. 

Also it is different if you label the building as "seasonal". Seasonal has differnt laws. I noticed the farther you are from richy places the less codes are enforced. I owned homes near the lake and it was infested with codes and inspections. Yet here, outside of the city, I build a new home and there are no plumbing inspections. 

The code enforcer and state electrical inspectors are very "trusting", shall we say. You can ask them how to do something here and they tell you, not the enforcers in the city homes. 

There are also different laws, like; if you have no water going into a home, then no septic is needed. Yet you can live in the home. The Amish do it. 

Just be careful. there are "ghost towns" in some areas, no money and no jobs.


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## mikec4193

Hi Tango

We are looking in the same area for a place to retire too. Very layed back from what we have seen so far.....we also were looking in Fulton County NY which I believe adjoins Montgomery county. I live in Saratoga County and these folks are getting run over by huge commercial developments and they dont seem to care either...my wife has family in this area of the state so we will continue to look as we can...there are few jobs tho...those that are there I have been told dont pay much..So what I am planning is to have enough cash to purchase a place in that area you are looking at and not have a mortgage...I think that is key...then you can just find something little job just for a little extra spending money to pay the heat and lights and taxes...

Good luck in your search...

MikeC


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## DuramaxMike

Sorry if I'm butting in.. but this where I am looking into land to start homsteading. West monroe ny, do any of you know this area? Thanks in advance.


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## misguidedute

I know of at least two places that are less than 900sqf but these could be in Town of Charleston, just East of Root. One is on Shun Pike Rd off Rte 20 and the other over closer to Glen (might be Reed Rd). Cliff (building inspector for Root and a couple other towns in the same area) will express his opinion (know the difference between his opinion and what the actual rules are) but you can request a change (variance?) as usually the people on the town board are pretty reasonable if you go and speak to them.
No idea on anything in Monroe.


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## chaze11

Camps do not require a certificate of occupancy, and you are not allowed to live there full time. They are considered recreational. Square footage is determined by the towns. There are actually towns with no square footage requirement. There's one between Cortland and Ithaca, but I can't remember the name of it.


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## Wolf mom

A thread from 2013 - a trip down memory lane....


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## Fishindude

Interesting , there have been a number of threads lately on this forum with folks complaining about the various restrictions, covenants, permitting, codes, etc. in regard to building homes, sheds, etc. My advice to anyone dealing with this type of B.S. is to relocate to someplace friendlier.

Around here a whole lot of home and farm stuff gets built without ever even thinking about talking to authorities or getting permits. Somebody gets in trouble occasionally, but it's rare. Couple years ago I tore down an old homestead house and barn in southern Illinois. Using a local builder we built a brand new post frame cabin and shop, put in utilities, water, septic, etc. Never had to get a single permit, and never had an inspection on anything and I wasn't trying to hide anything, they just don't bother with that stuff.

You need to get away from people and get a little more rural if you want to be free of all of that B.S.


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## sweetelizajane

Umble- I know this thread is old - but I am purchasing property in NYS, in Seneca County, and want to build an eco friendly house there, can you give me any advice on permiting/codes for composting toilets? I am from PA and am not as familiar with NYS code. Thanks!



Umble said:


> Our land (which is for sale, btw) is in Oswego County. We have a 320 Sq ft cabin on it, completely off grid with a composting toilet. We haven't had any problems with the permit guy about it. It really depends where you are, and who you deal with.


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## starrynights

Tango said:


> Was looking at Herkimer, Fulton and Montgomery counties. Not looking so much anymore but will still investigate if any interesting parcels come along. Hard to beat Missouri for freedom in building a homestead though....


I live near Herkimer and Fulton...very nasty places. If you need to stay in the state try Orlens county and souther-ish western NYS....anywhere around Syracuse and Utica will make you crazy.


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## starrynights

DuramaxMike said:


> Sorry if I'm butting in.. but this where I am looking into land to start homsteading. West monroe ny, do any of you know this area? Thanks in advance.


I know a lot of people in W Monroe. Went to high school with them and most of them are ok. Then there are the ones who are still fighting the Hatfields and Mcoys....ask someone about the Loomis gang that robbed and pilaged the homes in the late 1800 and early 1900 hundreds... that's some fun reading. W Monroe is mostly farmland a few trailer parks, if you go north of central square you will be in a place called the Tughill or Tug. There you will find WINTER. Also along rt 11 north around Hastings there may be one or two compounds. They have cameras and guns, be careful because they aren't fooling. Good luck!!


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## Wellbuilt

There are all kinds of crazy laws in nys it depends on where you are , every one has there own rules .
If you are any where nere a water shed land they will want a Engineered septic system. 
I am innyc water shed ☹ Im off grid on battery and solar . 
It’s getting harder to do this .


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## starrynights

Wellbuilt said:


> There are all kinds of crazy laws in nys it depends on where you are , every one has there own rules .
> If you are any where nere a water shed land they will want a Engineered septic system.
> I am innyc water shed ☹ Im off grid on battery and solar .
> It’s getting harder to do this .


could maybe do off grid if you are waaay out in NYS...but, these people do not like strangers on their property and all of that area is 'theirs'. I would not go north of Cleveland, constantia or central square ever!! Along Oneida Lake where I grew up. Can't swim in the lake --too polluted. No eating fish from Oneida lake either. That entire North Shore is now basically a wasteland. When I grew up it was a thriving small community of 3 towns along rt 49 but in the past 25 yrs it has gone.


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## Wellbuilt

There is no law against off grid , you just have to meet code , my place is the nicest one in the area , I have well and septic with solar battery’s on 21 acres . 
I have not got my CO yet so we will see , I don’t think you could poop in a box .
Then there is gray water to deal with i have not had any problems yet , I can’t even get a inspection they guy just tell me to go ahead ?


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## Wellbuilt

This should help


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## 1032swiss

starrynights said:


> I live near Herkimer and Fulton...very nasty places. If you need to stay in the state try Orlens county and souther-ish western NYS....anywhere around Syracuse and Utica will make you crazy.


 What is wrong with these areas?


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## Micheal

I'd like to know also,


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## starrynights

They are full of crime, drugs and nasty people. I was born in the area and lived here till I left home after school. Could not wait to leave. Now Rochester, Syracuse and Utica are at the bottom of the list for places to be in NYS.


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## JosephSeiss

starrynights said:


> They are full of crime, drugs and nasty people. I was born in the area and lived here till I left home after school. Could not wait to leave. Now Rochester, Syracuse and Utica are at the bottom of the list for places to be in NYS.


Checking crime rates online for each city you mentioned seems to support your point. I think for me personally i would check those stats online before moving anywhere. What’s the point in moving to a scenic area only to have to put up with that garbage?


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## JosephSeiss

starrynights said:


> They are full of crime, drugs and nasty people. I was born in the area and lived here till I left home after school. Could not wait to leave. Now Rochester, Syracuse and Utica are at the bottom of the list for places to be in NYS.


Also, are you saying there are no decent places in the Adirondack’s? Since you’re a lifer I value your input.


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## starrynights

JosephSeiss said:


> Also, are you saying there are no decent places in the Adirondack’s? Since you’re a lifer I value your input.


Oh, no! The Daks are wonderful and beautiful!


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## JosephSeiss

starrynights said:


> Oh, no! The Daks are wonderful and beautiful!


Which part of that range would you recommend if one were considering that part of the country? You have recommended against Herkimer and Fulton. Which part of the region the range includes would you say is best?


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## starrynights

JosephSeiss said:


> Which part of that range would you recommend if one were considering that part of the country? You have recommended against Herkimer and Fulton. Which part of the region the range includes would you say is best?


NYS is tough. From the north, Massena, Ft Covington area it is (was) mostly blue collar or non employed. All along the eastern part of the state from north to Queensbury, Saratoga are good...Saratoga has had some issues the last few years. Albany is awful. Going south from the CA border into the mountains, Lake Placid and Saranac Lake is good but they are resort towns and mountainous all the way to Old Forge. South a bit from OF is Boonville, Cold Brook and so on which have always been very rural. If you want to stead I'd go to south central of the state...east of the finger lakes. A beautiful part of the state is the Norwich area, but it is a resort ski area. It's kinda funny, NYS is very difficult to live in. I would never be able to afford now what I had 50 yrs ago. Mostly all recreation, either winter or the lakes in summer. They do not want 'outsiders' coming in. And don't even go south to NYC!! You're going to have to do your homework.


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## JosephSeiss

starrynights said:


> NYS is tough. From the north, Massena, Ft Covington area it is (was) mostly blue collar or non employed. All along the eastern part of the state from north to Queensbury, Saratoga are good...Saratoga has had some issues the last few years. Albany is awful. Going south from the CA border into the mountains, Lake Placid and Saranac Lake is good but they are resort towns and mountainous all the way to Old Forge. South a bit from OF is Boonville, Cold Brook and so on which have always been very rural. If you want to stead I'd go to south central of the state...east of the finger lakes. A beautiful part of the state is the Norwich area, but it is a resort ski area. It's kinda funny, NYS is very difficult to live in. I would never be able to afford now what I had 50 yrs ago. Mostly all recreation, either winter or the lakes in summer. They do not want 'outsiders' coming in. And don't even go south to NYC!! You're going to have to do your homework.


Thanks for the input. Maybe just seeking out the Mennonites is the wisest option.


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