# I went to the local medical clinic yesterday



## manfred (Dec 21, 2005)

I went in and sat down, people started filing in . 50 % without masks.
Then came in a young tattooed guy with his girlfriend in tow.
They told him he had to put on a mask that they provided. Then he sits down opposite me and puts the mask below his chin.
Nobody had a word to say to him, and this is a MEDICLE clinic.


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## Farmerga (May 6, 2010)

The mask is magic. As long as you wear it, you are protected from anything that might harm you. If you don't, you will spread the virus no matter if you have it, or, not and are a poopy head.


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## manfred (Dec 21, 2005)

Medical experts say if people would wear masks 70,000 live would be saved by the end of the year. 
I'
ll take their word over yours.


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## GTX63 (Dec 13, 2016)

That may or may not be true. If the office says wear a mask I either wear one or don't get treated.

Just be cautious when confronting others over the matter.


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## GTX63 (Dec 13, 2016)

Confronting strangers over wearing a mask, whether in a doctor's office or on the sidewalk is not a good plan.
The video above opens up a whole other box of toxic feminism, aggressive activism by morons and plain stupidity.
If those are the rules, I'd abide or leave, and not sit next to someone who refuses to wear one if I was uncomfortable with it.


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## Farmerga (May 6, 2010)

manfred said:


> Medical experts say if people would wear masks 70,000 live would be saved by the end of the year.
> I'
> ll take their word over yours.


Did you ever think to ask how they came up with that number? Did they study the behavioral effects wearing masks has, or, did they assume that people would still employee Social Distancing and sanitation practices at the same levels with, or, without a mask? Or, did you simply see "MD" and thought they MUST know what they are talking about and fail to follow up? Did you read a published, peer reviewed study that indicates 70,000 lives would be saved, or, did you hear some staff MD saying it on the News networks? And BTW, I didn't give my "word" on the effectiveness of masks, I commented on he cultural aspects of mask wearing.


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## CKelly78z (Jul 16, 2017)

Manfred, so you are saying that 50% didn't have masks at all, but they chose to single this guy out for not having one ?

Did the bad man with the tattoos make you scared ?


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## Lisa in WA (Oct 11, 2004)

***


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## manfred (Dec 21, 2005)

This guy sat very close to me in a medical clinic and took his mask down. Yes I was afraid of him./ It's a damn clinic!


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## RJ2019 (Aug 27, 2019)

manfred said:


> This guy sat very close to me in a medical clinic and took his mask down. Yes I was afraid of him./ It's a damn clinic!


Did you treat him like a leper and move seats in an obvious manner so as to convey your dislike?
I totally do that to people who aren't wearing a mask. I will not confront, but I will treat you as if you are less than fully human. You wanna act like an arrogant donkey and not wear a mask, I'm happy to treat you like a donkey.


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## kinderfeld (Jan 29, 2006)

manfred said:


> Medical experts say if people would wear masks 70,000 live would be saved by the end of the year.
> I'
> ll take their word over yours.


I doubt that. Masks have their place, but Fauci doesn't even wear one unless he thinks the cameras are rolling.


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## Kstar (Jun 14, 2020)

Like it has been said here and there and may have a valid point: "That's when you know it's not about illness, but about compliance."

Yes, most people can walk into a grocery store with it below their nose and no one says a thing (thankfully, so I can breathe!)

Can't control either people...just finish up in the clinic, go straight home, put clothes in the wash, get a shower and you should be okay. I spray my face and hands with micro particle colloidal silver. I've been okay so far. If you are too worried, maybe a teledoc thing is possible? I know for some it's not, but some people have it covered under an insurance or something and it's more comfortable for them to do so.


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## Kstar (Jun 14, 2020)

RJ2019 said:


> Did you treat him like a leper and move seats in an obvious manner so as to convey your dislike?
> I totally do that to people who aren't wearing a mask.* I will not confront, but I will treat you as if you are less than fully human.* You wanna act like an arrogant donkey and not wear a mask, I'm happy to treat you like a donkey.


Wow, so it's okay to treat people less than human just because they won't wear a mask? How twisted this world has become. Apparently human value bases itself on a mask....it doesn't even make sense and is so sad. I don't see why it's so difficult to care about people, mask or not. I don't agree with masks and can go on and on about it, but I don't treat people who choose to wear them any less or think they're acting like arrogant donkeys because they're not doing what I want them to do.


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## GTX63 (Dec 13, 2016)

For some, this mask business is like some new cult where followers used to be identified by a ring or a lapel, now it is a mask.
Good people wear them and good people choose not to.
I think people are becoming fools over it, but as I said earlier, if the office makes it a rule, follow it or walk out.
People are not scumbags only after they choose not to do as you believe they should.


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## Farmerga (May 6, 2010)

Kstar said:


> Wow, so it's okay to treat people less than human just because they won't wear a mask? How twisted this world has become. Apparently human value bases itself on a mask....it doesn't even make sense and is so sad. I don't see why it's so difficult to care about people, mask or not. I don't agree with masks and can go on and on about it, but I don't treat people who choose to wear them any less or think they're acting like arrogant donkeys because they're not doing what I want them to do.


Kind of like how they treated people who DID wear the Star in 1930's Germany. Same mentality at work.


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## newfieannie (Dec 24, 2006)

masks are mandatory here. i'm not that fussy about wearing them but i'll obey the law. i dont want to have to pay fines. signs are on all doors telling us to wear them. if you don't have one they provide it the first time. 

i have to go see a doctor next wednesday. i'd rather not but i've been suffering with my shoulder for a couple months and no relief in sight. lots of things they do by phone. renewing prescriptions and stuff like that. even the pharmacys are doing that but they are charging an extra 30 dollars or so.

for xrays he has to see the patient first to give us a requisition so we can take to the hospital. that's another place i hate like heck to go. ~Georgia


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## RJ2019 (Aug 27, 2019)

Kstar said:


> Wow, so it's okay to treat people less than human just because they won't wear a mask? How twisted this world has become. Apparently human value bases itself on a mask....it doesn't even make sense and is so sad. I don't see why it's so difficult to care about people, mask or not. I don't agree with masks and can go on and on about it, but I don't treat people who choose to wear them any less or think they're acting like arrogant donkeys because they're not doing what I want them to do.


I do, because you can potentially be endangering my children with your refusal to wear a mask. Think you're above the law or something, masks are mandated here. If for some reason you can't or won't wear a mask, stay the heck away from me and mine.


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## newfieannie (Dec 24, 2006)

yes or like our premier says "stay the blazes home"


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## manfred (Dec 21, 2005)

By the way, I did get up and move far away from the crackhead without the mask.
You8 people that won't wear masks are pure evil.


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## SLADE (Feb 20, 2004)

There is that.


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## homesteadforty (Dec 4, 2007)

CKelly78z said:


> Manfred, so you are saying that 50% didn't have masks at all, but they chose to single this guy out for not having one ?


I think a *logical* conclusion would be that everybody was asked to wear a mask but the tattooed guy chose to wear his incorrectly... should one chose to and are capable of applying logic.



> Did the bad man with the tattoos make you scared ?


Still looking for a *SNIPE* emoji .


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## Fire-Man (Apr 30, 2005)

OK, Mask, Do They work---some?? Some say Nope, some say they do. Some say they are kinda like a Muffler on a car---some cut down more noise than others---I know you can get better mask that can cut out more than some cheap mask. Let me tell a short story. My 83 yr old mother was requiring 24/7 care at her home. Myself, and 2 sisters, and our spouses were in and out her home several times a day taking care of her. 6 weeks ago several of us started getting sick, we heard that someone one member was in contact with had the Covid 19 virus, so we all (7 of us) went and got a test---6 of us were positive but not 1 Brother-In-Law which was staying away from my moms home a lot because of working at a big box store. A few days we had to admit my 83 yr old mother whom was put on Life support 3 days after going to the hospital, She had also got pneumonia. then another brother in law was admitted a couple days after my Mom---he stayed about a week and came home on oxygen. My mother got a little better on her breathing and she came home after a 2 week stay on oxygen and the DR said her time was limited, The other brother-in-law that was negative went in the hospital about 2 weeks after most of us were doing a lot better he then had covid---his second night in the hospital they rushed him and put him on the vent---with a 30% chance of living, the next night they dropped that to Might not live through the night---Everyone got so many people praying for him and some were on the other side of the world---the next day he started improving---today 3 weeks later they took him off the vent---he is very weak but off the vent and alive(8-11-20), we lost my mother 8-7-20 and we can not have her funeral until we all test covid negative---no mater about the new rules that should have changed that "call". SO I am going to say this---hind sight can be 20-20 and if we could do it over No one would have entered My Mothers home without a Good Mask On---and we all feel bad that we were like some and Kinda didn't worry about a Family visitor to much not wearing a Mask. My Mother is gone 5 weeks after getting tested positive, My Brother in law was almost a gone-er and still very sick---WE will wear our Mask even if it only helps a few %.


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## homesteadforty (Dec 4, 2007)

Kstar said:


> Like it has been said here and there and may have a valid point: "That's when you know it's not about illness, but about compliance."
> 
> Yes, most people can walk into a grocery store with it below their nose and no one says a thing (thankfully, so I can breathe!)


I'd say not confronting people was about employee safety rather than customer compliance. There have been many assaults over masking... employees (and even store management) are not in the enforcement business... they can gently suggest but it would be dangerous for them to go any further.


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## RJ2019 (Aug 27, 2019)

Fire Man-- So sorry about your mom and BIL!!


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## Hiro (Feb 14, 2016)

It is simple to focus on a mask as symbolic. That person isn't wearing one, so he/she doesn't care or....is evil . If wearing a mask prevents your exhalation from infecting others, it follows it would prevent you from getting infected on inhalation.

Don't get me wrong PPE that is effective and worn properly will reduce your likelihood of either catching a respiratory infection or spreading it. But, some wet cloth mask doesn't do that. Surgical masks help, if they are maintained and changed out when they get damp. N95 masks without an exhalation valve work better, but as they get damp from exhalation they are hard to breath through and inevitably don't fit very well or you begin waterboarding yourself or more commonly you adjust it where it isn't sealed right. Really effective masks, like N95 with an exhalation valve or a P100 with an exhalation valve can be worn for long periods of time and protect the wearer. The exhalation valves are there to prevent them from getting clogged with the humidity from your own exhalation, so you can inhale more freely.

If you are around susceptible people out of necessity, do what you can to prevent potentially spreading any virus. But, calling people evil or uncaring because they don't strap a bandana around their mouth/nose is nonsense. Wearing a non-effiective mask and calling people not wearing a non-effective mask bad names is just an attempt to place blame where it doesn't belong, imho.


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## no really (Aug 7, 2013)

I wear a mask where it's required but I also wear glasses and a cap. I kinda enjoy the anonymity involved and the social distancing doesn't bother me a bit to not have to deal with the people in most places. Do I feel like I'm particularly safe due to the mask no, I feel that the glasses afford more protection. But the bottom line is we will all get the virus, unless you live in a sealed environment with no interaction with humans. A vaccine is IMHO a promise that is little more than a placebo, that if by some miracle is viable will be many years in the future. By that time the virus will have mutated into little or nothing due to immunity acquired from exposure. Yes, the immune compromised will not make it without extraordinary care or luck. IMHO get your immune system working, stop smoking, eat right and stay at a weight that is healthy.


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## Danaus29 (Sep 12, 2005)

My doctor allows me to sit in my car until they are ready for me. I try to avoid doctor office waiting rooms anyway. But they expect you to be there 15 minutes to 1/2 hour before your appointment then call you back 1/2 hour after your appointment time. That, IMO, is too much time to spend near anyone that might be sick.


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## Kstar (Jun 14, 2020)

RJ2019 said:


> I do, because you can potentially be endangering my children with your refusal to wear a mask. Think you're above the law or something, masks are mandated here. If for some reason you can't or won't wear a mask, stay the heck away from me and mine.


It's a difficult thing, because one side may feel that masks are endangering to themselves or their children because of medical or psychological issues. There's two sides to the coin so I don't think those that don't wear masks should be treated any different from those that do. 

If people believe they are being endangered in public even while they are wearing masks that are supposed to protect them - why are they so angry at the unmasked people (if there are any around because of you know, mandates and all)? I mean, after all, the masks will protect you, right? So why the hostility? Aren't the unmasked ones just gonna get sick and die anyway according to some people that are in agreement with masks? Why the concern? Doesn't make sense...

I never said I was "above the law", I said I simply don't agree with mask mandates. Being in disagreement doesn't make me a criminal - it's actually totally legal. I do my best to social distance from people I don't know well. I don't go up to masked people at the grocery store and tell them off or act weird around them. Why treat them less? That's a person under that mask. I know their beliefs about this are different than my own at this time and I respect that. I'm not sure why the respect can't go the other way around for some...it's honestly baffling. 

You want to wear a mask? That's okay. You want to social distance? That's okay. Saying it's okay to treat people less than human because they don't do what you prefer them to do...not okay. You want unmasked people to stay away? Then stay away from 'em. 

I am surprised how this whole virus thing has caused such a rift between the love and care of community. It's heartbreaking, really.


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## Kstar (Jun 14, 2020)

homesteadforty said:


> I'd say not confronting people was about employee safety rather than customer compliance. There have been many assaults over masking... employees (and even store management) are not in the enforcement business... they can gently suggest but it would be dangerous for them to go any further.


For sure not confronting people. You're totally right because we've seen the stories about people fighting, pulling a gun, or verbally abusing others over the issue. It is so sad that it has gotten to that point. I definitely don't agree with how some of those people handled confrontations! They should've just walked on, ignored it, or thanked them for their concern and kept on moving. It's not something that should be going that route. It's no joke. 

Suggesting against it could probably be taken as a confrontation to some, I suppose. Although, suggesting disgust at someone can still be rude. Most of our language is non-verbal and some people are more keen to picking it up to others. If someone feels they need to suggest their discomfort or disagreement, maybe they are better off just moving as far away as possible from the person in question?


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## po boy (Jul 12, 2010)

I wear a mask if it's required and 99.9% of the time I am more than social distancing.
Holland does not have a mask mandate and has about the same attitude about them that we had prior to March. Their death rate is 30% less than the US and 18 of US states have a higher death rate.
This Photo is Holland on July 23rd.


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## Farmerga (May 6, 2010)

Studies are starting to come out that state that certain face coverings have little positive to a negative effect on the spread of COVID.


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

Shocking - Crack Heads don't follow laws and rules


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## GTX63 (Dec 13, 2016)

Consider the irony of standing outside the bank while putting on a mask before entering.


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## doc- (Jun 26, 2015)

manfred said:


> This guy sat very close to me in a medical clinic and took his mask down. Yes I was afraid of him./ It's a damn clinic!


Did you have your mask on?... Yes?...Then why should you care if he had his on?

If you were doing a space walk and your helmet & suit were properly sealed, would your health be impaired if your partner's suit had a leak?


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## GTX63 (Dec 13, 2016)

It took 34 posts to get to this question.


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## doc- (Jun 26, 2015)

GTX63 said:


> Consider the irony of standing outside the bank while putting on a mask before entering.


Here in WI, our governor (who could easily win a Mr Rogers look & talk alike contest) has decreed that masks MUST be worn in all public places...You must wear them into a restaurant, but may take them off to eat !!!???... Governmental logic at its finest.


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## GTX63 (Dec 13, 2016)

What has King Ever's proclamation regarding the practices of kissing, smoking, chewing tobacco and pipes, bubblegum, whistling, and lip reading by the deaf?


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## Mish (Oct 15, 2015)

doc- said:


> Here in WI, our governor (who could easily win a Mr Rogers look & talk alike contest) has decreed that masks MUST be worn in all public places...You must wear them into a restaurant, but may take them off to eat !!!???... Governmental logic at its finest.


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## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

Fire-Man said:


> OK, Mask, Do They work---some?? Some say Nope, some say they do. Some say they are kinda like a Muffler on a car---some cut down more noise than others---I know you can get better mask that can cut out more than some cheap mask. Let me tell a short story. My 83 yr old mother was requiring 24/7 care at her home. Myself, and 2 sisters, and our spouses were in and out her home several times a day taking care of her. 6 weeks ago several of us started getting sick, we heard that someone one member was in contact with had the Covid 19 virus, so we all (7 of us) went and got a test---6 of us were positive but not 1 Brother-In-Law which was staying away from my moms home a lot because of working at a big box store. A few days we had to admit my 83 yr old mother whom was put on Life support 3 days after going to the hospital, She had also got pneumonia. then another brother in law was admitted a couple days after my Mom---he stayed about a week and came home on oxygen. My mother got a little better on her breathing and she came home after a 2 week stay on oxygen and the DR said her time was limited, The other brother-in-law that was negative went in the hospital about 2 weeks after most of us were doing a lot better he then had covid---his second night in the hospital they rushed him and put him on the vent---with a 30% chance of living, the next night they dropped that to Might not live through the night---Everyone got so many people praying for him and some were on the other side of the world---the next day he started improving---today 3 weeks later they took him off the vent---he is very weak but off the vent and alive(8-11-20), we lost my mother 8-7-20 and we can not have her funeral until we all test covid negative---no mater about the new rules that should have changed that "call". SO I am going to say this---hind sight can be 20-20 and if we could do it over No one would have entered My Mothers home without a Good Mask On---and we all feel bad that we were like some and Kinda didn't worry about a Family visitor to much not wearing a Mask. My Mother is gone 5 weeks after getting tested positive, My Brother in law was almost a gone-er and still very sick---WE will wear our Mask even if it only helps a few %.


I'm sorry for the loss of your mother, and hope your brother in law recovers without complication. 

It comes home hard and fast how awful this virus is when you have a someone one die, become very ill, or have severe complications.


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## 101pigs (Sep 18, 2018)

manfred said:


> I went in and sat down, people started filing in . 50 % without masks.
> Then came in a young tattooed guy with his girlfriend in tow.
> They told him he had to put on a mask that they provided. Then he sits down opposite me and puts the mask below his chin.
> Nobody had a word to say to him, and this is a MEDICLE clinic.


A bit different here in my town. Before going into the cli


manfred said:


> I went in and sat down, people started filing in . 50 % without masks.
> Then came in a young tattooed guy with his girlfriend in tow.
> They told him he had to put on a mask that they provided. Then he sits down opposite me and puts the mask below his chin.
> Nobody had a word to say to him, and this is a MEDICLE clinic.


At my Clinic here in town a nurse at just outside the door to the Clinic a nurse gives you a mask. You don't go into the Medical building without a Mask on. At the V.A hospital you have to have an appointment or be very sick to go in and a mask is required at the door before going in. At the drug store in my small town mask required inside store. No service or allow in a lot of stores and places in my town without a mask.


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## RJ2019 (Aug 27, 2019)

101pigs said:


> A bit different here in my town. Before going into the cli
> 
> 
> At my Clinic here in town a nurse at just outside the door to the Clinic a nurse gives you a mask. You don't go into the Medical building without a Mask on. At the V.A hospital you have to have an appointment or be very sick to go in and a mask is required at the door before going in. At the drug store in my small town mask required inside store. No service or allow in a lot of stores and places in my town without a mask.


I want to move to your town. The whole attitude of "I don't have to and they can't make me" might well be the reason masks are not as effective as they currently are. If there is even a chance that masks may save lives, it's selfish and arrogant not to wear one. I don't want to hear people whining about mask-induced mental health problems, to be fair the mental problems were likely there long before someone dared to ask them to wear a mask🙄


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## Cabin Fever (May 10, 2002)

It seems like misinformation about masks is running rampant on this forum.
1. Masks DO NOT filter the air that you breathe in from the majority of Covid particles that may be floating in the air.
2. Masks DO NOT filter the air of the majority of Covid particles that an infected person breathes out.
3. Makes DO reduce the force of a sneeze or cough by blocking and capturing nasal emissions (droplets) of an infected person and thereby reduces the amount of Covid particles in the air that could infect other people. People infected with Covid can be symptomatic (are experiencing ill effects) or asymptomatic (have no idea that they are infected and are feeling fine). So, don't use the excuse that you do not need a mask because you feel fine.

I wear a mask because of #3 above. Even if I feel fine, I could be infected, and if I sneeze without my mask on, my sneeze would have a greater chance to spread the disease to someone near by that could be in the vulnerable category.

I wear a mask to protect others, not to protect myself.


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## wdcutrsdaughter (Dec 9, 2012)

hating on others lowers your own immune system


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## Kstar (Jun 14, 2020)

Danaus29 said:


> My doctor allows me to sit in my car until they are ready for me. I try to avoid doctor office waiting rooms anyway. But they expect you to be there 15 minutes to 1/2 hour before your appointment then call you back 1/2 hour after your appointment time. That, IMO, is too much time to spend near anyone that might be sick.





Mish said:


>


Oh wow xD lol. I mean, they have all these germs and particles on their masks and then they are putting their food and utensils up to their masks...it doesn't even sound sanitary.


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## wr (Aug 10, 2003)

Cabin Fever said:


> It seems like misinformation about masks is running rampant on this forum.
> 1. Masks DO NOT filter the air that you breathe in from the majority of Covid particles that may be floating in the air.
> 2. Masks DO NOT filter the air of the majority of Covid particles that an infected person breathes out.
> 3. Makes DO reduce the force of a sneeze or cough by blocking and capturing nasal emissions (droplets) of an infected person and thereby reduces the amount of Covid particles in the air that could infect other people. People infected with Covid can be symptomatic (are experiencing ill effects) or asymptomatic (have no idea that they are infected and are feeling fine). So, don't use the excuse that you do not need a mask because you feel fine.
> ...


I don't know what is information and misinformation anymore but I do know what we've been told. Logically, if a mask can't keep germs out, it's illogical to me that it can keep my germs in. 

Obviously, everyone should obey any laws in the area but they should also assess their regional situations and make the best possible decision they can for themselves and their family.


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## Cabin Fever (May 10, 2002)

wr said:


> I don't know what is information and misinformation anymore but I do know what we've been told. Logically, if a mask can't keep germs out, it's illogical to me that it can keep my germs in.
> 
> Obviously, everyone should obey any laws in the area but they should also assess their regional situations and make the best possible decision they can for themselves and their family.


I guess when I don't know what information is correct, I choose to err on the side of precaution. YMMV

Of course, we do have two physicians in the family that work at a major metropolitan medical center. So, I am pretty sure I'll be following their advice.


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## doozie (May 21, 2005)

Long before Covid, my Dr.s Office and Hospital had masks available at check in, and it was highly suggested you put one on if you even thought you were coming in with something someone else might catch.
This included not infecting the receptionist as they were the first thing you see in front of the check in area.
The mask is not a new concept, but appearantly wearing one is.


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## siberian1 (Aug 7, 2020)

Farmerga said:


> Kind of like how they treated people who DID wear the Star in 1930's Germany. Same mentality at work.



Not even a close analogy. The masks are not magic, they are respectful because they may stop someone from getting it. Ground fault breakers will not guarantee your house wont catch on fire or you won't get shocked, but they help. As far as number , data of how many go...if it is someone you love, losing 1 is to many.

The mask are recommended worldwide, please do not use the atrocity's of ww2 as a defense for an invalid argument.


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## random (Jul 23, 2020)

Cabin Fever said:


> 3. Makes DO reduce the force of a sneeze or cough by blocking and capturing nasal emissions (droplets) of an infected person and thereby reduces the amount of Covid particles in the air that could infect other people. People infected with Covid can be symptomatic (are experiencing ill effects) or asymptomatic (have no idea that they are infected and are feeling fine). So, don't use the excuse that you do not need a mask because you feel fine.


I'm curious about the deflected droplets and aerosols. If you're sitting in a waiting room next to someone and you sneeze, isn't your mask going to deflect aerosols to the sides, where those people are sitting? What sort of mask is out there for general use that will fully contain the sneeze? What if you sneeze three times - aren't you building up droplets and aerosols in the mask with each one? How much buildup can the mask take before you're ejecting more per sneeze than you would have otherwise?

Yes, I know, "it's not 100% effective but it helps" - would you trust a condom that is "not 100% effective"?


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## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

random said:


> I'm curious about the deflected droplets and aerosols. If you're sitting in a waiting room next to someone and you sneeze, isn't your mask going to deflect aerosols to the sides, where those people are sitting? What sort of mask is out there for general use that will fully contain the sneeze? What if you sneeze three times - aren't you building up droplets and aerosols in the mask with each one? How much buildup can the mask take before you're ejecting more per sneeze than you would have otherwise?
> 
> Yes, I know, "it's not 100% effective but it helps" - would you trust a condom that is "not 100% effective"?


Condoms are not 100 percent effective.

"When used correctly every time you have sex, male *condoms* are 98% *effective*. This means 2 out of *100* women will become pregnant in one year when male *condoms* are used as contraception. You can get free *condoms* from contraception clinics, sexual health clinics and some GP surgeries. "





__





are comdoms 100 percent effective - Google Search






www.google.com


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## random (Jul 23, 2020)

painterswife said:


> Condoms are not 100 percent effective.
> 
> "When used correctly every time you have sex, male *condoms* are 98% *effective*. This means 2 out of *100* women will become pregnant in one year when male *condoms* are used as contraception. You can get free *condoms* from contraception clinics, sexual health clinics and some GP surgeries. "
> 
> ...


heheh - yep  
(was actually kinda my point)

and condoms don't have the specific issues I asked about, with spreading things in different directions, and buildup over time, etc.


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## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

Masks are one part in a multilayered approach to reducing virus transmission. Even a vaccine or herd immunity will not be 100 percent.

If both people are wearing a mask the odds of reduced or no transmission is even better.


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## random (Jul 23, 2020)

Nothing will be 100 percent. _I_ know that, but it seems like people are looking for that 100 percent.

As for masks: My questions have still not been answered. I still have not had anyone address even the ONE study I've posted previously. I keep asking for the evidence that they actually work but I don't get any. All I've seen so far in favor of masks is one statistical study, and one model based on estimates. Nothing actually measured.

I've also addressed the downsides of the mandates, which is that people use them incorrectly but still act as if they help more than they even POTENTIALLY might. People do things WITH masks that they wouldn't do without them. How does that help then? If the masks create potentially worse situations, how do they help? (Let's look at this very case: which is better: having people grouped together in a waiting room, even wearing masks, or having people wait in their cars without masks? Personally, I would vastly prefer the latter.)

Frankly, if me not wearing a mask is going to make people physically distance themselves from me, it seems that NOT wearing a mask is better, since it keeps people away.


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## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

There are studies that show they reduce transmission. You just don't agree with them. Nothing is 100 percent and masks are not the complete solution. I wear a mask and I physically distance as well. I also wash my hands alot.

Would you wear a mask when visiting a hospital to see someone you know that has a compromised immune system? If you won't then nothing will convince you to wear one for the sake of others now. If you will, then I will ask why wouldn't it be good thing to wear one now when in public to possible save the health of someone else?


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## random (Jul 23, 2020)

There seems to be no point in further discussion if nobody is going to answer my questions.


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## po boy (Jul 12, 2010)

Nothing Is 100% safe.
Doctors have different opinions about how well the mask work. Some think they do, some think they don't.
People trust their scientist or doc, not the other guys.
Politics is a major factor in what someone believes or states. Politics come before facts.
Some trust truth over facts, or is it the other way around??


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## Danaus29 (Sep 12, 2005)

random said:


> There seems to be no point in further discussion if nobody is going to answer my questions.


Nobody here can answer your questions because nobody here has the equipment to perform the experiments. All we have to build on are the studies already performed and published. 

If masks work, they need to be worn properly. If masks are full of germs they need to be handled properly. Does everyone wear and handle their mask properly every single time? Most people do not wear or handle a mask properly.

Washing your hands is another similar issue. How many people, even those in the medical profession, allow soap to set on their hands for 20 seconds _each and every time_? Many people don't even do a 2 second rinse when leaving the bathroom.

How many people clean their cell phone or computer regularly? Most cell phones carry more germs than a toilet seat.








Your Cell Phone Is 10 Times Dirtier Than a Toilet Seat


Here's what to do about it




time.com


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## Farmerga (May 6, 2010)

siberian1 said:


> Not even a close analogy. The masks are not magic, they are respectful because they may stop someone from getting it. Ground fault breakers will not guarantee your house wont catch on fire or you won't get shocked, but they help. As far as number , data of how many go...if it is someone you love, losing 1 is to many.
> 
> The mask are recommended worldwide, please do not use the atrocity's of ww2 as a defense for an invalid argument.


You people really need to practice some reading comprehension.


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## Farmerga (May 6, 2010)

painterswife said:


> I wear a mask and I physically distance as well. I also wash my hands alot.


That is the rub. Most don't. Most seem to think that if they wear that totally cool mask they got from amazon with the little kitty whiskers on it, they can forgo the physical distancing and hand washing stuff. I have gone into stores with no mask and folks give me a lot of room. Go into the same store with a mask, and they are all over you. Since all of this mask stuff has taken off, I haven't seen the employees sanitizing carts and offering hand sanitizer. They think masks are the magic silver bullet. They don't even have to cover their nose with them, it would seem.


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## DebbieJ (Oct 9, 2016)

Farmerga said:


> The mask is magic. As long as you wear it, you are protected from anything that might harm you. If you don't, you will spread the virus no matter if you have it, or, not and are a poopy head.


As long as they wear a mask, they don’t say anything. I’ve seen this in the grocery store where I live in East Texas. It’s crazy!


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## marytx (Dec 4, 2002)

manfred said:


> By the way, I did get up and move far away from the crackhead without the mask.
> You8 people that won't wear masks are pure evil.


And now we get to the real point of masks--division. Those of us who don't like wearing masks think those of you who do are bullies (well, you are, as evidenced here) and those of you who do think those who don't are "evil crackheads."


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## barnbilder (Jul 1, 2005)

Most of the science used in the decision to mandate mask wearing is in the field of psychology.


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## marytx (Dec 4, 2002)

It _might_ have been easier to take mask mandates more seriously if the powers that be hadn't told us so adamantly the first several weeks that they were useless.


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## random (Jul 23, 2020)

Danaus29 said:


> Nobody here can answer your questions because nobody here has the equipment to perform the experiments. All we have to build on are the studies already performed and published.


Which leads me to the question: where are the studies? I have pointed out one published in May that indicates masks are not helpful, which refers to other studies that have tested viral transmission using an experimental group and a control group. That is evidence. I could point to several others that also show masks are not helpful. But I don't see any _experimental_ studies indicating masks _are_ helpful - so far I have only seen two favorable studies, both of which are based on models.

If there is so much evidence supporting masks, why is nobody producing it?


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## siberian1 (Aug 7, 2020)

Farmerga said:


> You people really need to practice some reading comprehension.



Perhaps. Or maybe pick items that are more sound and articulate to read. Will work on this.


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## Danaus29 (Sep 12, 2005)

random said:


> Which leads me to the question: where are the studies? I have pointed out one published in May that indicates masks are not helpful, which refers to other studies that have tested viral transmission using an experimental group and a control group. That is evidence. I could point to several others that also show masks are not helpful. But I don't see any _experimental_ studies indicating masks _are_ helpful - so far I have only seen two favorable studies, both of which are based on models.
> 
> If there is so much evidence supporting masks, why is nobody producing it?


I have wondered the same thing about antibodies. I just read an article today that says antibodies _*MAY*_ last 3 months! Um, covid is 8 months old! This suggests that "they" don't want us to know how long antibodies last for some unknown reason.

All this flip flopping and double talk is good for news headlines but nothing else.


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## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

Danaus29 said:


> I have wondered the same thing about antibodies. I just read an article today that says antibodies _*MAY*_ last 3 months! Um, covid is 8 months old! This suggests that "they" don't want us to know how long antibodies last for some unknown reason.
> 
> All this flip flopping and double talk is good for news headlines but nothing else.


*COVID 19* is a brand spankin' new virus, and information is going to change as the researchers discover more about it. "May" indicates it may last 3 months, it may last years. It's not some conspiracy to keep "us" calm, in my opinion. The researchers simply don't know. If the information never changed on a novel virus, that's when I'd start to wonder why.


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## barnbilder (Jul 1, 2005)

It's actually not new at all. Has been around for a very long time. The Corona virus has been in humans and mammals forever. The specific breed of corona virus that concerns us right now was supposedly a bat disease until very recently. There is interesting research coming from countries that don't have an election coming up, where it really isn't expedient to buy off the researchers. These studies indicate that T-cells provide some degree of heightened immune response to the Wu-Flu. This would explain why school age children and essential workers are not dropping like flies, compared to people that live sheltered lives.


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## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

barnbilder said:


> It's actually not new at all. Has been around for a very long time. The Corona virus has been in humans and mammals forever. The specific breed of corona virus that concerns us right now was supposedly a bat disease until very recently. There is interesting research coming from countries that don't have an election coming up, where it really isn't expedient to buy off the researchers. These studies indicate that T-cells provide some degree of heightened immune response to the Wu-Flu. This would explain why school age children and essential workers are not dropping like flies, compared to people that live sheltered lives.


I started a thread on this topic three weeks ago.


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## barnbilder (Jul 1, 2005)

You started a thread discussing that T-cells, achieved from socially interacting and catching the strains of corona virus we commonly refer to as the common cold, confer some degree of immunity against the c-19 strain? Interesting. I suppose you have ceased supporting draconian lock down measures then?


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## MichaelZ (May 21, 2013)

The biggest risk factor has been small crowded spaces in densely populated areas (like subways in NYC). Sounds like at least part of that might have been the case in this clinic. Being in clinics around other sick people has always concerned me a little. I have never been too concerned walking about some large store (in our sparsely populated area) with 20 foot ceilings, masks or not.


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## Lisa in WA (Oct 11, 2004)

barnbilder said:


> You started a thread discussing that T-cells, achieved from socially interacting and catching the strains of corona virus we commonly refer to as the common cold, confer some degree of immunity against the c-19 strain? Interesting. I suppose you have ceased supporting draconian lock down measures then?


i posted about T Cells last week. 



Lisa in WA said:


> Interesting and good news about T cells conferring immunity.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## random (Jul 23, 2020)

barnbilder said:


> I suppose you have ceased supporting draconian lock down measures then?


About those lockdowns:








Peru surpasses 500,000 coronavirus cases, marks highest fatality rate in LatAm


Peru surpassed half a million coronavirus cases and has the highest fatality rate in Latin America, according to health ministry data on Thursday, as the government struggles to contain a recent surge of infections.




www.reuters.com





Seems that a national mask mandate and one of the strictest lockdowns around didn't do much good there.


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## JeffreyD (Dec 27, 2006)

marytx said:


> It _might_ have been easier to take mask mandates more seriously if the powers that be hadn't told us so adamantly the first several weeks that they were useless.


Right, like Pelosi in Chinatown, or the Who saying it isnt bad?


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## doozie (May 21, 2005)

random said:


> About those lockdowns:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Your article noted 
President Martin Vizcarra, speaking earlier on Thursday from a public event to pay tribute to 120 doctors who have died from COVID-19, blamed the recent spike in infections on an uptick in social and sporting events and a lax attitude by the public.

I think there is a lax attitude growing here too.

I think their success or lack of it may have something to do with living conditions as well.









Will Vizcarra’s Strong Response Be Enough for Peru to Weather COVID-19?


LIMA, Peru—Even before his quick, decisive response to the novel coronavirus, the irony of Martin Vizcarra’s accidental yet popular stint as president of Peru was not lost on many of his constituents. When voters here are asked to explain their reformist leader’s apparent honesty and...




www.worldpoliticsreview.com





The pandemic may now be plateauing in Peru, with the country recently averaging around 1,500 new confirmed cases per day. That may be the best it can do, given that many Peruvians live in overcrowded, unsanitary conditions. Three million lack running water, while 8 million have no proper sanitation. And many buy their food in packed street markets, where social distancing is often impossible.

Vizcarra’s government has used the time it bought with its strict lockdown to try and bring Peru’s creaking public health care system up to scratch. The country spends less than $700 per person annually on health care, and much of that is skewed toward the private sector, where most middle- and upper-class Peruvians—precisely the ones who are now least at risk from the coronavirus—get their medical treatment.


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## barnbilder (Jul 1, 2005)

Wow. The description of the Peruvians sounds just like us essentials in the US. Pass me the Gatorade bottle that doesn't look like pee so I can re hydrate in between covid exposures.


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## homesteadforty (Dec 4, 2007)

barnbilder said:


> It's actually not new at all. Has been around for a very long time. The Corona virus has been in humans and mammals forever. The specific breed of corona virus that concerns us right now...


The breed (variant or whatever else you call it) is new in people... that's why at the beginning of this they rushed to map a genome. Even a slight difference in the genetic sequencing can make a huge difference in who, what and how it affects.

The oft used term novel virus means "new, *novel*, original, fresh".


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## barnbilder (Jul 1, 2005)

homesteadforty said:


> The breed (variant or whatever else you call it) is new in people... that's why at the beginning of this they rushed to map a genome. Even a slight difference in the genetic sequencing can make a huge difference in who, what and how it affects.
> 
> The oft used term novel virus means "new, *novel*, original, fresh".


Some scientists would disagree. It would seem that nuances in genetic variance make little diffence to a healthy and regularly used immune system.


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## kinderfeld (Jan 29, 2006)

manfred said:


> By the way, I did get up and move far away from the crackhead without the mask.
> You8 people that won't wear masks are pure evil.


I kind of feel the same way about smokers and fat people.


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## manfred (Dec 21, 2005)

I agree, I don't like fat people. Put down the fork.


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## Hiro (Feb 14, 2016)

manfred said:


> I agree, I don't like fat people. Put down the fork.


I like Santa Claus. I don't like Jabba. I try to be more discerning than liking based on physical characteristics and focus on their behavior. I am woke or is it awakened. I can never remember.


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## Danaus29 (Sep 12, 2005)

Hey random, I just saw the results of this study;








New study researches effectiveness of masks and coverings


A recent study from Duke University is giving people more insight on the most effective face masks and coverings. As the pandemic evolves, new information is being discovered and learned. Duke researchers evaluated 14 different coverings. They did so by estimating the amount of droplets traveled...




abc6onyourside.com


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## random (Jul 23, 2020)

Danaus29 said:


> Hey random, I just saw the results of this study;
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Interesting reading, and thank you for providing the information. It's a good study of how good certain materials are at stopping droplets from passing through, and shows pretty definitively that the mask material can make a big difference.

I realize this will get the response "you just don't like the results of that study", but even the study itself admits to being a "proof of principle" - it's a design for a test. They also only looked at droplet spread directly in front of the speaker, so side-spread isn't accounted for. Hopefully, someone can use the method they demonstrated here to do some studies on that.

The results of the fleece mask is a bit concerning. Stay away from someone with one of those!

One problem is that face mask efficacy in this study is theoretical and does not equate to actual use - randomized controlled trials are what give us reality, like Pilot Randomised Controlled Trial to Test Effectiveness of Facemasks in Preventing Influenza-like Illness Transmission among Australian Hajj Pilgrims in 2011 which found _"no major difference in the risk for laboratory-confirmed influenza virus infection in the control or mask group"_ - that's the sort of thing I would like to see more of, whatever the results. Real-world controlled trials.

Theoretical studies are interesting and provide a good basis for future experiment, but until confirmed by experiment, it remains theory.


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## homesteadforty (Dec 4, 2007)

Hiro said:


> I like Santa Claus. I don't like Jabba. I try to be more discerning than liking based on physical characteristics and focus on their behavior. I am woke or is it awakened. I can never remember.


I've been woke since 5:00 this morning ... had to get up to milk the cow.


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