# Is This a Good Deal On a Solar System?



## FarmerGreen (Dec 11, 2007)

240v Fulltime Cabin Solar Pkg Panels, Inverter, Battery
4 KW 120/240v, 8 220 watt Panels, 32 Batteries

Now you can purchase a cost effective complete solar power system for your off-grid home or cabin. This package consists of:
1) a used set of 32 (2004 or later manufacture date) C&D UPS12-370FR Industrial AGM Sealed Batteries (read section on how each battery tested to assure quality product) with a used but tested 200 amp fuse. 

2) 1760 watts from 8 new REC 220 watt Solar panels 

3) 1 new Magnum Energy MS4024AE 4.0 kw 120/240vac 24vdc true sine wave inverter with built-in 105 amp battery charger and 30 amp transfer switch 

4)1 new Xantrex XW-MPPT60 60 Amp MPPT charge controller 

5)Trimetric Battery System Monitor display and 1 shunt, 

6) SEI's Photovoltaics Design & Installation Manual, my store solar catalog that includes thousands of items of solar equipment, plus worksheets to properly determine how much power you need from solar, wind, or hydro.

They want $10,200.00. This doesn't include shipping.


----------



## Gary in ohio (May 11, 2002)

I think the BIG question you need to ask yourself is if that is enough power to do what you need. The biggest failure in putting up a solar powered system is buying what you can afford and not what you need. You putting 10K into a system and only getting 2 outlets worth of power, Is that enough. I would also check to see what tax credits or deals are available to you in TN.


----------



## TnAndy (Sep 15, 2005)

From the short Google I did on the batteries, I think they are 12v/100amp.hr.....meaning there are 16 strings of 2 for the 24v inverter....seems like a LOT of strings, and maybe too much capacity to keep them charged correctly. ( 1600amp/hr for 1760w of panels )

Also says 10 yr design life on batteries, and they are 6 years old now....and you don't know HOW they have been used in that 6 years. I would value the batteries no more than 25% of new price, and even that 'may' be overpaying.....you're literally buying a pig in a poke there.


The Xantrex charge controller I don't know the specs...but an Outback MX60, ( 60amp also ) you're limited to 1600w @24v......so the amount of panel 'may' be pushing the capacity of the CC....maybe that is why it's new ?


----------



## ||Downhome|| (Jan 12, 2009)

I would buy new from a established company that way you have all warrentys in order thats a lot of oney to drop on used. solar has really come down in price and if you can take advantage of tax incentives its even less expensive. and even if you dont have the tax liability to take advantage of those bet you do some real shopping you could put together a system in that capacity for around that price to a few more grand.


----------



## wy_white_wolf (Oct 14, 2004)

That' works ot to almost $6 a watt plus installation for a used system. Depending on what rebates/incentives are available in your area you maybe able to get a new system cheaper. 

The 2 main problems are already pointed out. Doesn't matter how they are testing the batteries you have no idea how they where treated. A better design on them would be to go with some large Rolls-surrettes instead of having so many strings.

The Charge controller is undersized for that many panels.

I just checked and Sunelec.com has a new 2000watt off grid system for under $9000. I'd say that used system is way overpriced. I wouldn't buy the system from Sunelec though as it is a 12v system. Something that size you should be looking at 24 or 48 volt.


----------



## idahodave (Jan 20, 2005)

I didn't see any wire or cables in the list. Are they included?

The batteries are the problem...even if they were new. 32 batteries with six cells each or 192 cells to water....what a pain in the rear.


----------



## Jim-mi (May 15, 2002)

Dave those bats are sealed..........

Any well designed system would not gang up that many bats......
You would start with a larger capacity bat rather than many small ones.
So yes the bats are very iffy.

You could put all the pieces together and zap in a bit of time have to replace the bat bank . . .$$$$$

Push to shove . .offer the guy half the price . .and see how hungry he is . . ?!?!


----------



## idahodave (Jan 20, 2005)

My bad...should have read the OP with a little care.

Still 32 small batteries is a problem.


----------



## FarmerGreen (Dec 11, 2007)

Thanks for all the replies. I'm new to solar but am planning to invest in a system later this year, so I'm trying to do as much research as I can first. Here is a link to the system I was asking about: 
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=160345247970&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT

It looks like the batteries are the only used part of the package, everything else is new. But that is a big, expensive part of the system. I was concerned about the batteries being used. A couple of ya'll have mentioned that these are small batteries (75 lbs. each)- what should I be looking for size-wise? Any particular brand?


----------



## TnAndy (Sep 15, 2005)

Hey Farmer Green,

I'm also in East TN.....tried to send you a PM couple times, but it gets in a loop and won't send for some reason.  Contact me if you want to talk solar sometime.

There is a Deka dealer in Johnson City, and the first set of batteries I used for my system were 400amp/hr, 6v, L-16's which weigh in at 113lbs/ea. I had two strings of 4 for an 800amp/hr system. Price on those was about 225 bucks each, plus cables.


----------



## 12vman (Feb 17, 2004)

I would'nt consider the battery at all. Sealed units are a poor choice from the start, IMO.

Considering the rest of the system @ $5.80/watt isn't too bad with everything thats included.


----------



## trkarl (Dec 15, 2009)

The L-16 style batteries are a good compromise between life and capacity. You generally are not going to want to discharge the bank below 20% daily to get maximum life in years out of them. Definitely try to stay above 50%. The cycle life is going to be determined by how deep you discharge them.

You are not going to want to parallel several strings. Also if you do parallel several strings with FLA batteries then you will have to maintain many cells which can be a PITA.

I started out with a string of 8 trojan T125 batteries to learn with and then last year upgraded my bank to a string of 8 Surrette 6cs17ps batteries. These are industrial batteries that should last 15yrs or more but they are expensive. Surrette makes some insanely large capacity batteries so you should be able to get all that you need with a single string of batteries.

http://www.surrette.com

You may also want to look at these for dedicated solar off grid use.

http://www.hupsolarone.com/

Here is a pick of my humble system with the batteries:

http://i108.photobucket.com/albums/n3/trkarl/P1011299.jpg


----------



## FarmerGreen (Dec 11, 2007)

12vman said:


> I would'nt consider the battery at all. Sealed units are a poor choice from the start, IMO.


Why are sealed units a poor choice?


----------



## 12vman (Feb 17, 2004)

FarmerGreen said:


> Why are sealed units a poor choice?


There is no way to maintain them if they get low on electrolyte. The charge/float voltages are very crucial! If the voltages go too high, the battery boils which reduces the electrolyte level and eventually the battery dries out.

Sealed batteries are usually applied in situations where they are not heavily cycled on a daily basis. They are mostly used for back up power for UPS's and communications systems back up where the power may drop out from time to time as a bridge to supply power until the grid comes back up or until a back up generator kicks on. Daily discharge-charge cycles can cause them to boil during the charge period and eventually dry them out.

Batteries that can be maintained, like the L-16's are a better choice. They are designed for cycling and the electrolyte level can be kept topped off.


----------



## FarmerGreen (Dec 11, 2007)

Thanks for all the responses. Thanks to 12vMan for the battery primer.

I contacted the seller and got a quote on the system w/o the batteries. $8200.00 w/ free shipping. Now I need to price out the remaining items individually and see what I come up with.


----------

