# Another EBT Rant



## Daddyof4 (Jan 5, 2004)

Today at Kroger my wife and I were standing in line with our buggy of groceries. There was one lady with her groceries already on the conveyor ahead of us and a man and woman checking out at the front of the line. 

After a few minutes we noticed that the line wasn't moving at all and people were piling up behind us. The lady in front of us was getting frustrated and finally threw her stuff back into the little hand-cart and found another line. What was the holdup?

The man and woman ahead of us were holding up the line because they tried to buy an energy drink and a couple of other disallowed items with their EBT card. They weren't arguing about it with the cashier or anything and looked a bit embarrased. But somehow the computer glitched when they swiped the card after passing those items over the scanner. So the computer was frozen for several more moments while the head cashier had to come over and fix the problem. 

My problems were as follows: 

Why would someone on public assistance try to buy a $4.00 energy drink on the taxpayer's dime along with some other luxury stuff that we can't even afford should we even want that junk?

Why are Coke Zero and other junk foods ALLOWED on food stamps? These people had four cases of soda under their buggy along with other junk foods and they got to keep all that.

To cap it off they had just left Wendy's and still had their drinks in their hands while in line. They can afford to eat out but expect taxpayers to buy cokes for them AND an energy drink if they could have gotten away with it.

And to make it even worse, the guy had shorts on and a tank top and had tatoos all over his arms and legs and shoulders. Tatoos are his business if he pays for them. But tatoos are expensive and if he can afford some six to eight inch tatoos all over his body why is my tax money paying for his food?

Am I wrong? I don't mind helping people (and have done so a lot) and I certainly don't know these people's story. AND they didn't have a bad attitude in line or anything unlike many other smug smirking people I've seen brandishing their ebt cards (what my useless SIL called his ghetto platinum card). I guess what bugs me is how the entitlement mind set supports the idea that an EBT card should pay for luxury/junk foods as well as nutricious food. Almost every person I've ever seen on food stamps load their carts down with prepackaged meals, steaks, expensive meats, and junk foods. It never occurs to them to buy some vegetables, cheaper cuts of meat, and at least make an attempt to save the taxpayer a dime.


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## Kmac15 (May 19, 2007)

funny this should come up LOL 
Both my sisters work in a grocery store and were visiting me this past weekend. Knowing that this subject comes up on a regular basis I asked some very pointed questions.

They tell me that they can tell how a person is going to pay for their groceries by what is in the cart.
Processed food and sodas always mean EBT. A cart full of sale steaks, crab claws and shimp? also EBT.

Now the one exception is the Mexican famies using EBT. They fill their carts with fresh veggies, corn meal, tortillas, ground beef and cheap cuts of chicken.

If a person has a mix of fresh with processed, loss leaders, store brands and sale items then they are paying for the items themself.

They joked that if a person was not Mexican but had dry beans or rice in the cart they were paying for it.
They said that if the government would limit what could be bought it would be no more trouble at the checkout then WIC. 
The only problem would be that they know some of the older people using the EBT are homeless, so have no way of cooking anything.

I think that people using EBT should be required to take nutrition classes and some limit should be made on the sugary drinks and junk food....maybe limit these to only a few drinks per month.


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## bluesky (Mar 22, 2008)

Many years ago when I was a young mother raising my four sons by myself after their dad left, going to nursing school full time and working part time, we were fortunate enough to get food stamps. I sometimes wondered how people were judging me, especially when I'd let my boys pick out their treat of the month - cookies or chips or pop or whatever they wanted - they each got to choose one thing and they got to eat what they called a "junk food supper". Yes, we could have spread those treats over many days but they were thrilled at being able to gorge on carp once a month and I didn't and don't feel guilty about it. The rest of the time we ate rice and beans and oatmeal and half liquid-half powdered milk and cheap meat and eggs and day old bread and I made those stamps stretch for the whole month. 

I guess my point is that for every EBT recipient who consistently spends unwisely, there is most likely one who is doing his or her best to take care of their family (and maybe let them have a treat once in a while) and I don't begrudge them that.


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## ChristyACB (Apr 10, 2008)

I'm so sorry you had to see that. I know how frustrating it is. I see it every time I go to the store. I stand there with coupons, sale items and whole foods and am usually behind a cart of soda, junk and the most expensive ice cream treats possible for someone with EBT.

As far as why they can't monitor and control it: They can. Easily. 

Why don't they: Because in order to control it each food that wants to be on the list will need to pass a nutrition test and companies that make the most from EBT would NOT make money anymore. In truth, some of those wonderful companies would probably go out of business without the millions and millions who pad their coffers...all on the taxpayers dime.

It is wondrously EASY to create an allowed list...after all, they already have a disallowed list that is automatic when the food is swiped. How hard do you think it would be to add junk to that list? Not hard at all...NOT AT ALL.

It is pure crony-ism and one of the reasons that this conservative (meaning me) is also smart enough to be suspicious of the "pure capitalism" approach. They NEVER do right when the money can be made. Never.


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## ChristyACB (Apr 10, 2008)

bluesky said:


> Many years ago when I was a young mother raising my four sons by myself after their dad left, going to nursing school full time and working part time, we were fortunate enough to get food stamps. I sometimes wondered how people were judging me, especially when I'd let my boys pick out their treat of the month - cookies or chips or pop or whatever they wanted - they each got to choose one thing and they got to eat what they called a "junk food supper". Yes, we could have spread those treats over many days but they were thrilled at being able to gorge on carp once a month and I didn't and don't feel guilty about it. The rest of the time we ate rice and beans and oatmeal and half liquid-half powdered milk and cheap meat and eggs and day old bread and I made those stamps stretch for the whole month.
> 
> I guess my point is that for every EBT recipient who consistently spends unwisely, there is most likely one who is doing his or her best to take care of their family (and maybe let them have a treat once in a while) and I don't begrudge them that.


You may not begrudge them that, but the bottom line is that "treats" are not a right. If there is enough money to buy anything over nutrition, then there is someone out there who wallet that it was taken from, who earned that money, who isn't getting that treat for their child.

I don't begrudge them, but I do debit them every bite they eat...but not in the mean way you might think. Instead, I fully expect every person who gets assistance to understand that they have taken from others to enjoy that food and that they should, if and when possible, return that money.


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## chickenista (Mar 24, 2007)

Christy is correct.
The big packaged food makers lobby to be included in EBT. They make so much money that way. If EBT dumped the big food producers the profits would fall.
And then someone would scream about unfair practices etc..
But just realize that there are people out there that buy staple goods only and no junk with their cards.. they are just rare.


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## Txsteader (Aug 22, 2005)

Well, in light of Michelle Obama's obesity campaign, you'd sorta think they'd get a clue and change policies.

And in the guy's defense, he could have already had the tatoos before he went on welfare. But I agree with the gripe about buying junk food with food stamps. Years ago, when we were young and struggling and had to use food stamps for a couple of months, I remember how strict the regulations were. It wasn't a problem for me because I've always tried to prepare nutritious meals for my family and it just made sense to me. 

There are a lot of things happening today that don't make sense to me.


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## JuliaAnn (Dec 7, 2004)

But Michelle Obama ISN'T going to do anything of the sort, because it would mean losing potential votes. If she or her husband/regime restricted what can be bought on EBT, you can bet the ones getting the benefits will scream bloody murder over it. Can't lose those potential voters, can they?


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## ChristyACB (Apr 10, 2008)

You know, someone is going to come on and say how mean we are for saying this stuff about EBT. So, I'd like to lay out my rebuttal before I go to bed.

There are two divergent personalities in this world and only two:

One confuses a want with a need. The other does not.

The first leads to all that is evil in the world, whether it be envy, greed, sloth, murder, sex crimes, deceit or any other evil thing. 

For example: A says, "I need to be helped"...put a gun to another's head and make them pay to help them. B says, "I want to be helped"...how can I get help for this problem.

A says, "I need to have those shoes"....steal them, rob for them, get welfare for them, murder for them. B says, "I want those shoes"...I wonder how I can squeeze them into my current funds.

We all have moments were we confuse a need with a want. Those are the days when you regret the dress you bought or the time wasted watching a movie when the lawn needed mowing. 

The difference is that person A doesn't regret it and doesn't see that the need wasn't a need, but a want. Person A can only be brought around to understanding the difference with much assistance and work and usually only when things have come to extremis.

Food stamps are one such issue. When do you really need them? 

Person A who is generally a good person says...because life is really hard and I can't figure out how to make ends meet and I'm overwhelmed right now. And now that I have them, I should be able to get treats because I deserve them.

Person B who is also generally a good person says...I'm working as hard as I can, all the hours I can, I'm gleaning from gardens, I'm trading weeding for food, all the people in my family who can work are working and I'm buying only what we have to have to get nutrition and it still isn't enough. 

The difference is in understanding the difference between a true need and want. Most who get EBT don't understand that it was meant to fill a need, not a want. Any that is used over the amount of need fulfillment is fraud against those whose labor pays for it.


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## Old Vet (Oct 15, 2006)

I can remember before food stamps were available. The Government gave away food (Commodities) and let that go to the ones that were in need. Then the producers got together and had Food Stamps passed then they got together and said that Food stamps were shaming the people so they went to the EBT cards. It is profitable for everyone to be able to get junk foods and not about to change. The pour eat well on everything that the government gave them but now the producers get more money.


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## bluesky (Mar 22, 2008)

ChristyACB said:


> You may not begrudge them that, but the bottom line is that "treats" are not a right. If there is enough money to buy anything over nutrition, then there is someone out there who wallet that it was taken from, who earned that money, who isn't getting that treat for their child.
> 
> I don't begrudge them, but I do debit them every bite they eat...but not in the mean way you might think. Instead, I fully expect every person who gets assistance to understand that they have taken from others to enjoy that food and that they should, if and when possible, return that money.


Nonsense. What those treats meant for my family was that I had to try just a little bit harder to be more frugal with the rest of the food stamps. The few dollars for those once a month treats meant _I_ went without breakfast or lunch sometimes. It was a _choice_ I made and one that I don't regret. The smiles on their faces were worth me being hungry sometimes and if you begrudge them that I feel sorry for you. 

Does the 30 years that I've worked since then meet your requirements for returning the money?


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## Roadking (Oct 8, 2009)

I've got a friend who works check-out (and I alson know most of the people in the grocery store, as well), and have heard it time and time agian about these cards. Iwouldn't notice one if it bit me, but being a small town ( filled with weekend vacationers, who pay cash or credit), the regulars with those cards are well known. Yet, they are (as I have been told), consistently abusing their "entitlement". They know when a certain cashier is on duty so they can buy their tobacco and beer with thier card (the UPC codes don't get scanned, rather manual input). Some of these folks I know, and I see their pick-em-up at the local bar like clockwork everyday. Irks me to no end, but what to do??? Grocery manager turns a blind eye as do the rest of the locals...I gotta live here (by choice, mind you) and don't want to have too many upset ********, so I simply say to myself..."you reap what you sow" and go about my bussiness. Imagine if those cards suddenly stopped working when the money runs out.
I'm glad for our hard work and full pantry. Self respect and a 15 year old truck trump this carp anyday, at least to me.
Matt


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## Callieslamb (Feb 27, 2007)

I'm appalled at the amount of junk everyone buys in the store. And I wouldn't know an EBT card from a CC. I see many, many carts piled with junk and wonder in this economy, if everything is as bad as it is supposed to be - how families manage to buy all tht junk.


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## texican (Oct 4, 2003)

I 'know' that embarrassment... after about three months of wallet abuse, my credit card's magnetic strip starts getting hard to read, and after a few swipes, the register has to be 're-set' by a manager. Reminds me, it's time to make that call for a new card!!!


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## Sonshine (Jul 27, 2007)

I have to side with BlueSky on this one. If they can fit it in their budget with an EBT card to get a special treat once in awhile, I have no problem with it, at least for those who really need it. What bothers me are those who would prefer to live off of the government than try to find a job. I have heard many say that there's no reason to work, they make more just staying home with the kids. Now that irks me.


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## JuliaAnn (Dec 7, 2004)

All this talk about junk food/treats bought on EBT cards... where are the questions about EBT cards causing obesity? HHHmmmmmm????????? 

I have the same card problem Texican does... my bank debit card--that I BUY things with-- seems to lose it's magnetic strip rather quickly. I guess Wells Fargo is cheap about their cards or something. I have to have a new one about twice a year.


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## Spinner (Jul 19, 2003)

I feel your rant. 

Is anyone here old enough to remember the days before food stamps? We did not have people dieing in the streets from starvation. Back then people worked at whatever they had to do to eat. They would shovel out barn stalls, or any other dirty job so they could find to earn money to buy food. Younger women would hire out as cooks, housekeepers, mothers helpers, or some other appropriate job. Young men would work in the fields, or join the Army. In the Army they would learn a trade so they could find a job when they got out. My dad did that, so did my grandfather. It worked back then. Not sure if it would work today.

Today the poor don't worry about trying to find work, they simply go get on the public dole. Women don't worry about having a house full of illegitimate babies cause they know the govt will take money from the hard working people and give it to them to support those kids. Men don't worry about supporting their offspring for the same reason. 

Food stamps has done more to keep poor people poor than any other program I've ever seen. It would have been better if they had never been started, then the people who are dependent on them would have found ways to earn food instead of standing in line for a handout. 

I'm sure some will think I'm hard hearted for thinking this way, but if they are honest, they'll know that I'm right.


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## dezingg (Feb 25, 2010)

Food Stamps/EBT and WIC are great programs for food manufacturers. Have you seen the price of baby formula? In our area most formula purchases are from WIC customers, so the WIC coupons help the manufacturer maintain an inflated price.

Sometimes EBT customers irritate me when I see them buying stuff that I won't waste my money on, but it has to be pretty obvious to me. I don't worry about a few snacks, but a large number of snacks and junk food bothers me.

I clearly remember two transactions that bothered me a lot.

About 10 years ago a customer came in and bought $60 worth of junk food, claiming it was her son's birthday. I don't think that there were more than two healthy items in the whole order.

About 25 years ago a family was going camping at the lake for the weekend. They had two baskets. The first one had lots of expensive food and meat, which was paid with food stamps. The second basket was full of alcoholic beverages. It was a fairly expensive basket too, which they paid for with cash. They hauled everything out to a pickup/camper that was towing a ski boat. Loaded everything into the camper. A few of the family climbed into the pickup. The rest piled into a Cadillac and they drove off to have a wonderful time. I wondered why I was working all weekend and they were partying all weekend, while my tax dollars helped to ensure that they had a really good time.


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## farmmom (Jan 4, 2009)

I've had to fall back on foodstamp a time or two, but cashiers always would act suprised when I paid for my 20lb rice, 50lb potatoes, on sale meats, generic canned goods, flour, sugar, etc. I even had one ask me if I wasn't going to get some soda and chips while I still had money on my card. I told her I'd rather provide nutricious meals than junk.


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## willow_girl (Dec 7, 2002)

> As far as why they can't monitor and control it: They can. Easily.
> 
> Why don't they: Because in order to control it each food that wants to be on the list will need to pass a nutrition test and companies that make the most from EBT would NOT make money anymore. In truth, some of those wonderful companies would probably go out of business without the millions and millions who pad their coffers...all on the taxpayers dime.
> 
> ...


DING DING DING, we have a winner!

The ultimate "welfare recipient" is the food producer and grocer who are the REAL receivers of the government's money! The person with the EBT card is just a conduit used to convey the money from the government to its corporate friends.


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## the mama (Mar 1, 2006)

I know of people who "sell" their food stamps. 50 cent on the dollar. Usually the 'buyer' will go with them. They buy the high priced meats and seafoods. Then they use the money for cigs, alcohol or drugs. Someone will always find a way to beat the system. Since the person using the EBT is the person assigned to it, it is very hard to prove the fraud.


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## jbowyer01 (Aug 4, 2008)

My Dh is a disabled veteran, while we fought to get his VA disability (it took 5 years) I got layed off (or as they called it a RIF) from my job and had to take two jobs making a lot less than what I originally was. We were struggling horribly. I finally sucked it up and went to apply for assistance (something I was extremely embarassed to do). Would you believe I made 30$ to much a month to qualify. Thats when I started looking up frugal measures on line and I found this site (which has been life changing) and even though we are now doing much better financial wise, we live very frugal, garden, can and have chickens. I wish they would educate the individuals that are going on assistance with the self sufficent ways.


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## Lilandra (Oct 21, 2004)

Spinner said:


> I feel your rant.
> 
> Is anyone here old enough to remember the days before food stamps? We did not have people dieing in the streets from starvation. Back then people worked at whatever they had to do to eat. They would shovel out barn stalls, or any other dirty job so they could find to earn money to buy food. Younger women would hire out as cooks, housekeepers, mothers helpers, or some other appropriate job. Young men would work in the fields, or join the Army. In the Army they would learn a trade so they could find a job when they got out. My dad did that, so did my grandfather. It worked back then. Not sure if it would work today.
> 
> ...



I believe you are 110% right... I read somewhere that the "great" depression wouldn't have lasted as long if the government didn't prop people up with temporary jobs. Before the "great" depression, there was very little homelessness, unemployment and poverty because people did what they could to maintain a lifestyle to be proud of.

Another thing that REALLY BOTHERS me is that schools provide free lunches and sometimes breakfast during the summer so the kids don't go hungry. What is so hard for these parents to provide for their own kids... a box of cereal and milk is cheaper than those mixed drinks they had in the bar, and a week of lunches of sandwiches, soup and carrots is cheaper than the case of beer they shared with neighbors over the weekend. 

A lot of these folks need a priority check, kids first - then adult vices...


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## Tricky Grama (Oct 7, 2006)

bluesky said:


> Many years ago when I was a young mother raising my four sons by myself after their dad left, going to nursing school full time and working part time, we were fortunate enough to get food stamps. I sometimes wondered how people were judging me, especially when I'd let my boys pick out their treat of the month - cookies or chips or pop or whatever they wanted - they each got to choose one thing and they got to eat what they called a "junk food supper". Yes, we could have spread those treats over many days but they were thrilled at being able to gorge on carp once a month and I didn't and don't feel guilty about it. The rest of the time we ate rice and beans and oatmeal and half liquid-half powdered milk and cheap meat and eggs and day old bread and I made those stamps stretch for the whole month.
> 
> I guess my point is that for every EBT recipient who consistently spends unwisely, there is most likely one who is doing his or her best to take care of their family (and maybe let them have a treat once in a while) and I don't begrudge them that.


OMG-this is MY story too! Except I only had 3 kids. I had the ONE junk food item too, but also let them pick healthy stuff they wanted. Was elated b/4 Halloween to find out we could get a big pumpkin! It's FOOD! 

The looks I got & the treatment when buying w/food stamps was sooo degrading. I was on them for 8 months-longest 8 mo of my life! HAD to or else quit college, then no RN degree, no paying it forward-no productive citizen.
Had to go to the P.O. to get them too...DIRTY looks, insulting comments from employees as well as customers.


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## QuiltingLady2 (Jan 3, 2007)

Daddyof4 said:


> Today at Kroger my wife and I were standing in line with our buggy of groceries. There was one lady with her groceries already on the conveyor ahead of us and a man and woman checking out at the front of the line.
> 
> After a few minutes we noticed that the line wasn't moving at all and people were piling up behind us. The lady in front of us was getting frustrated and finally threw her stuff back into the little hand-cart and found another line. What was the holdup?
> 
> ...


I agree that the guy should have known what was and wasn't availible on his card.

But, did you ask the guy when he got the tats? Or did you just ass-ume that he recieved them while on assistance? 

Must be your own area of the country. I shop for grocieries and haven't seen this problem. 

We should - that is some agency, church group or concerned citizens, be checkers for EBT card carriers..
....I can just imagine....
EBT line forms here
Sister Suzy will check your basket first for OK to buy items.

-Now, you know that your children shouldn't have that BDay cake that was special ordered. You need to go back through that day old cake shelf and find something suitable for Billy's 5th Bday. No, we don't care if it's got flowers on it. It's cake that's all that matters.
- Oh, that shampoo you have there. Do you have money for that purchase? Hummm? The generic shampoo is only .79 why are you buying the .99 brand? 
- OMG, I just noticed you have a butterfly tatoo on your ankle! Leave! Leave right now. You aren't spending your money or rather our state money correctly! No, I don't care that you got that tatoo when you were 20 and weren't on assistance. How do I Know that is a fact? Get out, get out right now! 

:grumble:


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## Sawmill Jim (Dec 5, 2008)

Conservatives should be able to get what every they want to and have a lib standing behind them to pay for it :bouncy:

I want to be right in front of QuiltingLady2 :goodjob::bouncy:


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## Aintlifegrand (Jun 3, 2005)

ChristyACB said:


> You know, someone is going to come on and say how mean we are for saying this stuff about EBT. So, I'd like to lay out my rebuttal before I go to bed.
> 
> There are two divergent personalities in this world and only two:
> 
> ...



:goodjob: Well put


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## QuiltingLady2 (Jan 3, 2007)

Sawmill Jim said:


> Conservatives should be able to get what every they want to and have a lib standing behind them to pay for it :bouncy:
> 
> I want to be right in front of QuiltingLady2 :goodjob::bouncy:


Well you certainly can Sawmill. I'll be over at the local FMeyer later today. I don't have an EBT card. Have never used one. So I guess I don't have to answer to any good natured, republican, judgemental dogooders that want to clearifly my purchases. 
psst - you can pay for my broccoli.




> snip Most who get EBT don't understand that it was meant to fill a need, not a want. Any that is used over the amount of need fulfillment is fraud against those whose labor pays for it.


And this is just what I'm talking about. Judgement. The EBT card gives you clear rules on what it will and won't pay for. If people want that list of items to be clearer then the rules need to be changed. The people on the card system are only getting what is allowed on the card. So if you have a problem with those items then change the list the card allows.


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## Aintlifegrand (Jun 3, 2005)

Here is the thing.. I am not angry with the person who gets the EBT card... I am angry with the system that created the problem and continues to allow it.


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## QuiltingLady2 (Jan 3, 2007)

Aintlifegrand said:


> Here is the thing.. I am not angry with the person who gets the EBT card... I am angry with the system that created the problem and continues to allow it.


Then talk to your representive and change the law. Simple as that.


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## Ambereyes (Sep 6, 2004)

QuiltingLady2 said:


> Then talk to your representive and change the law. Simple as that.


Maybe that can be done, as soon as we get people in government who aren't more interested in the power and prestige involved in having people totally dependent on them to provide. Being an independent I blame both of the current parties in power. Time for change and personal responsibility should be the first change. 

Back to commodities, if you want a treat you have the tools make it.


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## Sawmill Jim (Dec 5, 2008)

QuiltingLady2 said:


> Then talk to your representive and change the law. Simple as that.


Those cards buy lots of votes not a poly tishion nowhere going to touch that :flame:

Well you certainly can Sawmill. I'll be over at the local FMeyer later today. I don't have an EBT card. Have never used one. So I guess I don't have to answer to any good natured, republican, judgemental dogooders that want to clearifly my purchases. 
psst - you can pay for my broccoli.

You read in reverse i need someone to pay their hard earned money for my stakes and cake :icecream: I'm saving my money for beer :teehee:


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## QuiltingLady2 (Jan 3, 2007)

Sawmill Jim said:


> Those cards buy lots of votes not a poly tishion nowhere going to touch that :flame:
> 
> Well you certainly can Sawmill. I'll be over at the local FMeyer later today. I don't have an EBT card. Have never used one. So I guess I don't have to answer to any good natured, republican, judgemental dogooders that want to clearifly my purchases.
> psst - you can pay for my broccoli.
> ...


I'll buy you a beer sometime even w/o the ebt card on you.


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## Aintlifegrand (Jun 3, 2005)

QuiltingLady2 said:


> Then talk to your representive and change the law. Simple as that.


That is the point of the Tea Party... we are working on it...


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## QuiltingLady2 (Jan 3, 2007)

Aintlifegrand said:


> That is the point of the Tea Party... we are working on it...


I don't go through a 3rd party....tea party.

I go right to my representive, congress person or local government. 

I don't need a group of Fox backed info heads to tell me what or who to vote for. 

That's the difference. :grin:


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## Lilandra (Oct 21, 2004)

QuiltingLady2 said:


> I don't go through a 3rd party....tea party.
> 
> I go right to my representive, congress person or local government.
> 
> ...



the fox backed info heads aren't as influential as you wish they were... 

most sane folks have the same opinion - the government as gotten too big and too involved in our lives. We need to be a community and take care of our neighbors, but we don't need to be told to do so or have our hard earned money taken from our families in the form of taxes to support lifestyles of people who won't live within the means that they can support.

the tea party isn't a political party, its a group of like minded individuals gathering together to make their voices heard. I bet 90% of the "tea party" members have their congress critters email, phone and office address and use it when issues arise, I also be that they have attended rallies outside of the tea party in support of their views. I know I have phone numbers and such and have used them long before the tea party came along.


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## Gercarson (Nov 2, 2003)

QuiltingLady2 said:


> Then talk to your representive and change the law. Simple as that.


Wow - how "simple" is that? Just talk to my "representive" (sic) and the law will be changed. 
I, I feel so powerful.
Great advice.


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## ChristyACB (Apr 10, 2008)

QuiltingLady2 said:


> And this is just what I'm talking about. Judgement. The EBT card gives you clear rules on what it will and won't pay for. If people want that list of items to be clearer then the rules need to be changed. The people on the card system are only getting what is allowed on the card. So if you have a problem with those items then change the list the card allows.


QL2,

This isn't some judgement from a small disgruntled group; it is an observation made over and over by the vast majority of those who _have seen over and over_ this terrible abuse of a system meant to feed those who would otherwise starve nutritious food.

And it isn't that the rules are not being obeyed it is that there aren't reasonable rules!

As I stated clearly before: There is an exclusion list that beeps you right as you scan a disallowed item. Cigarettes, energy drinks (some kinds) and a few other things so egregious not even the most vigorous corporate lobbying can make it palatable are on that list. It is automatic. No matter what store or what state, if you use EBT the code will beep a big no-no.

So, if it is that easy to add something to the disallowed list, why AREN'T "Ho-Ho's" and "Chips - Now with extra grease!" on there?

Because companies like those that make and market Ho-Hos and other LOW nutrition, calorie dense convenience foods make a HUGE percentage of their money from people who don't have to worry about what they spend on groceries....i.e. food stamp users.

Go look it up on line. There are actually profiles of people based on their grocery purchases and food stamp abusing welfare skank is right at the top of the list for the worst nutrition purchasing profile. (My description of their far more PC term.)

Seriously, if do gooder universities that are simply stinky with liberals can even admit that and can gather that kind of data, do you really think the Government that controls those purchases doesn't?

There are not sufficient rules for EBT. That is a given. Simply because two almost equally corrupt political parties have, in their opposing views and aims, accidentally conspired to create a system in which any abuse is taken as "my right" does *not excuse the user from also doing right.*

If you take EBT and you buy expensive 17 count shrimp at 19 bucks a pound on food stamps, you should know you are doing wrong. 

If you are buying junk food and you have the audacity to look the mother with a fist full of coupons, a calculator and the sales flyer (and her own checkbook) in the eye, KNOWING you are taking some portion of her goods and life to buy treats she herself can now not afford, then you're a thief. 

EBT is government sponsored charity with stolen goods. If you have to do it, then you should because you really have to, not just because you think you "do enough" and "deserve" a break. And if you do, then you should at least respect the people that are being robbed to pay for it by buying only what you need...really need...and not spending the rest, so that it can stretch further.

That's my opinion and I'm sticking to it. It isn't being judgemental, it is being honest. That money doesn't appear stuck to magic gumdrops falling out of the sky, it comes from a violent hand snatching it from the mouths of working people.


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## Ardie/WI (May 10, 2002)

bluesky said:


> Many years ago when I was a young mother raising my four sons by myself after their dad left, going to nursing school full time and working part time, we were fortunate enough to get food stamps. I sometimes wondered how people were judging me, especially when I'd let my boys pick out their treat of the month - cookies or chips or pop or whatever they wanted - they each got to choose one thing and they got to eat what they called a "junk food supper". Yes, we could have spread those treats over many days but they were thrilled at being able to gorge on carp once a month and I didn't and don't feel guilty about it. The rest of the time we ate rice and beans and oatmeal and half liquid-half powdered milk and cheap meat and eggs and day old bread and I made those stamps stretch for the whole month.
> 
> I guess my point is that for every EBT recipient who consistently spends unwisely, there is most likely one who is doing his or her best to take care of their family (and maybe let them have a treat once in a while) and I don't begrudge them that.


THAT is a very good post, bluesky!

I'm going to say this and then I'm going to not further read this thread. :grump:

IT'S NONE OF MY BUSINESS NOR ANYONE ELSE'S WHAT IS PUT IN A GROCERY SHOPPING CART!

Merciful heavens.....


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## Aintlifegrand (Jun 3, 2005)

QuiltingLady2 said:


> I don't go through a 3rd party....tea party.
> 
> I go right to my representive, congress person or local government.
> 
> ...


Well we do have the new Tea Party Caucus with over 35 congressmen and women since yesterday joining so we are getting their attention...Congresswomen Bachman sent Nancy a letter inviting her to join..who knows before long we might even have the ear of the speaker of the House...of course I admit it might have to be a different speaker.. but then who knows...

You did hear about the new Tea Party Caucus right? Not sure if Rachel or Keith covered it...


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## Aintlifegrand (Jun 3, 2005)

ChristyACB said:


> QL2,
> 
> This isn't some judgement from a small disgruntled group; it is an observation made over and over by the vast majority of those who _have seen over and over_ this terrible abuse of a system meant to feed those who would otherwise starve nutritious food.
> 
> ...



No one could have said that better... thank you :goodjob:


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## FyredUp (May 22, 2010)

I don't begrudge the mom who allows her kids to pick out a treat once a month. ONCE A MONTH people, it isn't like her cart was filled to the brim with Ho Ho's and chips.

I used to work in my parent's store and to be honest the junk food never bothered me as much as when they used to get cash change for the remainder left from the foodstamps they used. Why? Because they would use it to buy booze or cigarettes.

There are always abusers for everything, and unless you can look yourself in the face and say you have never cheated, abused, or lied regarding the system, stop being holier than thou.


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## sammyd (Mar 11, 2007)

> IT'S NONE OF MY BUSINESS NOR ANYONE ELSE'S WHAT IS PUT IN A GROCERY SHOPPING CART!


What an enlightened statement. 
You would think that you would see more like this in a place that constantly rags about being able to make their own choice.


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## rkintn (Dec 12, 2002)

sammyd said:


> What an enlightened statement.
> You would think that you would see more like this in a place that constantly rags about being able to make their own choice.


My thoughts exactly!


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## Gercarson (Nov 2, 2003)

sammyd said:


> What an enlightened statement.
> You would think that you would see more like this in a place that constantly rags about being able to make their own choice.


I can see that a huge point has been either overlooked or absolutely ignored. No one cares what a person "puts in their shoppig cart" as long as THEY pay for it. No one cares that babies are given "treats" - the point is that to pay for what is going into an EBT cart is being paid for by the person who pays for their own - themselves. If you take my money - I pay taxes because of the good that is supposed to come from paying - please use my hard earned money responsibly - don't blow it on "stuff" that I cannot afford - because the government decided you "needed" the money more than I do. My child eats beans and cornbread - the EBT child eats steak - nope, none of my business. You get to make your own choice, while I do NOT get to choose how my tax dollar is spent.


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## FyredUp (May 22, 2010)

Gercarson said:


> I can see that a huge point has been either overlooked or absolutely ignored. No one cares what a person "puts in their shoppig cart" as long as THEY pay for it. No one cares that babies are given "treats" - the point is that to pay for what is going into an EBT cart is being paid for by the person who pays for their own - themselves. If you take my money - I pay taxes because of the good that is supposed to come from paying - please use my hard earned money responsibly - don't blow it on "stuff" that I cannot afford - because the government decided you "needed" the money more than I do. My child eats beans and cornbread - the EBT child eats steak - nope, none of my business. You get to make your own choice, while I do NOT get to choose how my tax dollar is spent.


So, God forbid, you ever find yurself in a situation where you have no job, no means of support and hungry kids you won't accept assistance? Right? That is what you are saying isn't it? Because you didn't pay for it you shouldn't have it?


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## Gercarson (Nov 2, 2003)

FyredUp said:


> So, God forbid, you ever find yurself in a situation where you have no job, no means of support and hungry kids you won't accept assistance? Right? That is what you are saying isn't it? Because you didn't pay for it you shouldn't have it?


How hungry are your "kids" if you don't appreciate the largess that the government has stolen from the tax payer to feed you? You weren't frugal with your own money so now you have a chance at the taxpayer's - right? Why don't you shop "responsibly" so your EBT card will carry you through the month? Because you didn't pay for it means you should be concerned that "someone" did and you should have that respect for "redistribute the wealth" that you care enough to shop "responsibly".


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## rkintn (Dec 12, 2002)

Why is the automatic assumption always made that the person using the EBT card is a non taxpayer ? There are plenty of honest taxpaying folks that have found themselves on the rec'ing end of food stamps and other programs. What makes your tax dollars more valuable than their's? 

Srsly, the assumptions made here about those on welfare always amaze and disappoint me.


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## Wilbursmommy (Feb 27, 2003)

removed due to being signed in as my wife


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## Daddyof4 (Jan 5, 2004)

And our resident lefties chime in. Sorry I'm late to my thread this evening but I had to work today. 

Nobody is saying to not buy treats on occasion. But EVERY SINGLE TIME I've happened to see someone using an EBT card they fill their buggies with junk. And no it isn't like I'm spying but almost always the line gets held up as in this case or the person has two buggies full of junk and preprepared meals and then you'll see the cashier hold up the card and the delays start, usually with the EBT cardholder getting fussy because he/she can't get some item he/she thinks they're entitled to.

There is this thing called "stewardship". It's a simple premise. Use what you have as best as you can. Get the most value out of what you have. I agree the system is the main culprit because it rewards excessive behavior. By excessive I mean those who have a certain monthly allowance on their card MUST use all of it or risk having it reduced. So that leaves them spending up the very dollar. Ok if that's the way it is, why not STOCK UP on non-perishables like beans and canned goods? OR (and here's a real kicker) why not get what you need and then allow the monthly allowance to drop to what your needs are? 

As far as snacks, nothing wrong with getting a kid a candy bar or a block of ice cream on occasion. But I've seen people buy prebaked cakes in the bakery at $25 each for a birthday. Did it ever occur to them to buy some cake mix and a can of icing like we do? We can't afford those premade cakes most of the time and we would never dream of buying one on the taxpayer dime. 

I guess it all boils down to the mindset. It didn't bother the EBT user at ALL to ask the taxpayer to pay for his energy drink and for a couple other items that I don't know what they were. After all it isn't his money and he has to spend it all or risk losing it...right?


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## Gercarson (Nov 2, 2003)

rkintn said:


> Why is the automatic assumption always made that the person using the EBT card is a non taxpayer ? There are plenty of honest taxpaying folks that have found themselves on the rec'ing end of food stamps and other programs. What makes your tax dollars more valuable than their's?
> 
> Srsly, the assumptions made here about those on welfare always amaze and disappoint me.


You know, this is spitting into the wind here. But - noboby is making any assumptions about EBT card users except that they should be a little more cautious about spending other people's money. Money that was taken (legally) and given to someone who has no respect for the tax payer's money. If an EBT user is paying taxes - that puts them into a whole different tax bracket - common sense would dictate that that person would be getting an "earned income" refund. The assumptions here about those who are concerned about where their tax dollars go - does NOT suprise me but it does disappoint me and pints to the position of where America is today. Spread the wealth.


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## bowdonkey (Oct 6, 2007)

I find the whole arguement about any kind of welfare a complex one. We just had a post about how much stimulis money has been spent. I find that welfare spending far more offensive than a few EBT bucks. Oh and good post Gercarson. It seems there's no real charity anymore without the giver at least making the news for his good deeds or at least expected to get voted for. And the receiver [or at least the ones that get publicity] instead of saying thank you and being truly greatful now have an entitlement mentality. Or worse feel it's their right.


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## Tricky Grama (Oct 7, 2006)

ChristyACB said:


> QL2,
> 
> This isn't some judgement from a small disgruntled group; it is an observation made over and over by the vast majority of those who _have seen over and over_ this terrible abuse of a system meant to feed those who would otherwise starve nutritious food.
> 
> ...


Post of the day award.


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## Tricky Grama (Oct 7, 2006)

Ardie/WI said:


> THAT is a very good post, bluesky!
> 
> I'm going to say this and then I'm going to not further read this thread. :grump:
> 
> ...


Ardie, if our taxes are PAYING for that cart full, we DO have a say.


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## Tricky Grama (Oct 7, 2006)

Gercarson said:


> I can see that a huge point has been either overlooked or absolutely ignored. No one cares what a person "puts in their shoppig cart" as long as THEY pay for it. No one cares that babies are given "treats" - the point is that to pay for what is going into an EBT cart is being paid for by the person who pays for their own - themselves. If you take my money - I pay taxes because of the good that is supposed to come from paying - please use my hard earned money responsibly - don't blow it on "stuff" that I cannot afford - because the government decided you "needed" the money more than I do. My child eats beans and cornbread - the EBT child eats steak - nope, none of my business. You get to make your own choice, while I do NOT get to choose how my tax dollar is spent.


Another POTDA. And one for Dof4. 
Sammy-do you not see this? Ardie? rkintn?


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## Guest (Jul 23, 2010)

Lilandra said:


> Before the "great" depression, there was very little homelessness, unemployment and poverty because people did what they could to maintain a lifestyle to be proud of.


Do you really believe that?



QuiltingLady2 said:


> I don't go through a 3rd party....tea party.
> 
> I go right to my representive, congress person or local government.


The tea party is not a 3rd party. It's individuals going right to their representives, congress persons and local government.


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## jerzeygurl (Jan 21, 2005)

Ardie/WI said:


> THAT is a very good post, bluesky!
> 
> I'm going to say this and then I'm going to not further read this thread. :grump:
> 
> ...


If I'm paying for it then YES it is my business.


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## pancho (Oct 23, 2006)

There is a real need for the EBT program. There are some people who need help and appreciate it. It just so happens there are a lot more just looking for something for nothing. It is a way of life. Generations have grown up on food stamps and taught their children how to continue getting something for nothing. It is taught to children through their parents. The children then grow up and do not really know what the program was intended to do. All they know is they were raised on food stamps so they continue the tradition and teach their children the same as they were taught. It doesn't really take that long for some people to get the idea that other people owe them a living.

The gov. is real glad to push the program. Money spent that does not belong to them but increases the number of voters they need to get elected.

Man this is beginning to make me feel bad. Look at what our leaders will do for a buck. We the people should be ashamed to elect people who do that to us. Street walkers have more ethics than the normal politician.
If a person truly needs help I will be one of the first to stretch out a hand to them. Those people who take our money just because they can and care little where the help comes from or the people providing it are below politicians, and that does take some work.


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## mekasmom (Jan 19, 2010)

I think everyone should remember that when humans point a finger at another person in judgement we have four pointing right back to ourselves. Nobody is perfect. Nobody is without sin in this life. We should be careful when we choose to judge because we put ourselves under judgment that way.
We are not on food stamps. And there are things I will not buy due to the fact it is junk or it is too expensive even if it isn't plain junk. But that doesn't make me better than anyone else whether they are on a government subsidy or not. All have sinned and come short of the Glory of God, and that includes each one of us too.


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## sirquack (Feb 18, 2009)

Mekasmom - The difference when I point my finger at someone who is abusing the system, I can say with honesty that I have not abused the system to get where I am today. I took gov't cheese as a young man newly married. My wife and I were glad to get the assistance. But we worked for the program in exchange for our goods. We worked our butts off to get to a point in our lives where we can comfortably provide for ourselves and our immediate and some extended family.
I do have the right to complain about the way my tax dollars are wasted when I see a family using EBT cards to buy lobster tails and jumbo shrimp, while talking on their smart phone with their manicured nails and designer clothes. Then you go outside and see them loading their bounty into a new Escalade. When they use the money taken away from me and everyone here in a reckless and thoughtless way, we all lose.
And as others have stated, this way of life is passed on from generation to generation. We need need to offer a hand to those in need and offer a kick in the butt with thoughts of greed.


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## beccachow (Nov 8, 2008)

QL2, I mean this as a good-natured "poke!" But I sure want to live where you do! Unemployment down, economy turning around, no EBT cards or abuse thereof, no wonder you guys love this admin so much! 

Last night, as I stood in WalMart getting bottle of water (long story, but MY debit card also has a trashed strip, and the only way I can get cash is Wal Mart, they are the only ones who recognize the strip. Scary, huh?), there was a family in front of me. On the belt: Doritos, three candy bars (I will allow the candy bars as a "treat" for her kids), another jumbo bag of chips, several 3 liter bottles of soda, various other junk food items including snack cakes and such as well as a package of diapers, all of which I paid for via her EBT card as I stood there, sweltering in my uniform, in the middle of a particularly tough night shift, wishing I could be home with MY kid instead of working for her Doritos. Now, if she had asked me, I would have PAID for her diapers for the baby, and bought one each candy bar for her kids. Point is, as always, I am not permitted to make my own decisions as to how I help. And I am also not permitted to become angry that I had to wander the aisles of my grocer the day before, with $40 in my pocket, buying food items that I can afford instead of what I WISH I could buy? Boy, not only am I forced to pay for all this, but I am not allowed to be angry either. 

Well, here is a solution: Since we have the usual divided factions here, is there a way we can limit the amount of junk food bought each month? Sure, buy chips, soda etc but you only get $X for it per month. Same as I do at the store: if I have $5 to spend on food, I will not spend $3 on a bag of chips. KWIM?

An interesting side note: some of the people crying that a person on EBT has as much right to eat junk food as the next person, are also the some of the ones saying McD's Happy Meals should be outlawed. Double standard, perhaps? What is the diff between my allowing my kid one Happy Meal per month vs these families stuffing Dorito Casserole down THEIR family's gullets? Especially since my $$ are paying for my kid's right to a Heart Attack in a Box, as WELL as the Utz stew? As liberals are quick to point out, you really cannot have it both ways!

For the record, I believe that a treat as Bluesky indicated is A-Okey Dokey as long as it is balanced by wholesome food as well, and as long as the food is being bought from a grocery store/Wal Mart etc vs how many times I have watched people pay 3x what a product is worth at a 7-11! I dislike seeing kids pay the price for poverty, no matter how ignorant you think I am .

EBT is just another example of how "entitlements" are abused.


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## beccachow (Nov 8, 2008)

sirquack said:


> Mekasmom - The difference when I point my finger at someone who is abusing the system, I can say with honesty that I have not abused the system to get where I am today. I took gov't cheese as a young man newly married. My wife and I were glad to get the assistance. But we worked for the program in exchange for our goods. We worked our butts off to get to a point in our lives where we can comfortably provide for ourselves and our immediate and some extended family.
> I do have the right to complain about the way my tax dollars are wasted when I see a family using EBT cards to buy lobster tails and jumbo shrimp, while talking on their smart phone with their manicured nails and designer clothes. Then you go outside and see them loading their bounty into a new Escalade. When they use the money taken away from me and everyone here in a reckless and thoughtless way, we all lose.
> And as others have stated, this way of life is passed on from generation to generation. We need need to offer a hand to those in need and offer a kick in the butt with thoughts of greed.


Stop confusing the issue with human emotion. You will pay and LIKE IT!

Also, I want to repeat AGAIN, you used the system as the bridge it was meant to be, not the lifestyle it has become.


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## Daddyof4 (Jan 5, 2004)

beccachow said:


> Stop confusing the issue with human emotion. You will pay and LIKE IT!
> 
> Also, I want to repeat AGAIN, you used the system as the bridge it was meant to be, not the lifestyle it has become.


Exactly and some on here are quick to toss out the judgment card as quickly as they do the race card. Biblical judgment is about judging the person. This isn't about judging the person but rather their actions. 

As stated I don't think anyone has a problem with a mom letting her kid have some candy or other treats on the EBT. But I agree with those above who believe junk food should be limited. Maybe to a certain % of your allotment. 

I guess it all boils down to people stretching other people's money as well as they do their own. If we were getting food stamps I can say without question we would be clipping coupons, reading sale papers, and buying affordable but nutritious foods for our family. Wait...that's what we do now. That is not too much to ask by any stretch of the imagination.


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## Riverdale (Jan 20, 2008)

rkintn said:


> My thoughts exactly!


Unfortunately, the people who pay for their own groceries are the ones scrutinized and those with EBT cards are given a pass, because it would be 'disciminatory'......


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## sammyd (Mar 11, 2007)

> Unfortunately, the people who pay for their own groceries are the ones scrutinized and those with EBT cards are given a pass


Just how is that?
This whole thread has been about folks so worried about what some other folks are putting in their carts and paying for with their EBT card.

People are allotted so much on their cards, what they spend it on is their business. If they run out of money before the next time the card is reloaded that's their bad.
If they want to load up on cokes and ding dongs what business is it of anybodies? They can only spend so much.
If you're so worried about your tax dollars why are you paying into the system?
There are plenty of ways to not pay in. 
I read all this business about people need to cook from the basics..what if they never learned that? Some folks just don't have the training, momma never knew either or didn't care. Schools Home Ec got cut as a cost saving measure....could be any number of reasons. So somebody who hasn't a clue drops a bundle of 88 cent TV dinners in the cart and it's something that you get your panties in a wad about. Get over it, it's folks dealing with things the way they know how. Maybe instead of getting all snarky and high and mighty on some chat board you could volunteer to show these folks just how to cook. 
Of course even if they were to buy something that they had to cook it wouldn't be right either


> My child eats beans and cornbread - the EBT child eats steak





> This isn't some judgement from a small disgruntled group


 That's exactly what this is. 
I love this one too...


> You weren't frugal with your own money so now you have a chance at the taxpayer's - right?


 What if the folks didn't have any money to be frugal with? How do you really know anybodies situation? Who are you to judge? Really?
What a bunch of old gossipy ladies....You should all be ashamed of yourselves.


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## Guest (Jul 24, 2010)

sammyd said:


> If they want to load up on cokes and ding dongs what business is it of anybodies? They can only spend so much.


That's a good point.

I shudder at the way some people eat, whether they pay for it with food stamps or cash.

But whether they spend $2 on a bag of chips or a bag of flour, it's still $2.


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## Gercarson (Nov 2, 2003)

sammyd said:


> Just how is that?
> This whole thread has been about folks so worried about what some other folks are putting in their carts and paying for with their EBT card.
> 
> People are allotted so much on their cards, what they spend it on is their business. If they run out of money before the next time the card is reloaded that's their bad.
> ...


What a buncha socialist pant load. This post is the very reason this country has turned into a gimme, gimme instead of I can do it. AND has the gall to chastise people for wanting SOME sort of accountability We're beyond hope. A lot of these people are stealing from those who produce - they are users and no amount of defense will change that.


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## sammyd (Mar 11, 2007)

they are not stealing, (that is the most despicable attitude I have seen) they are following the rules and doing what they need to in order to get by. 
If as some folks say on here there is such a tsunami of folks who don't agree then you need to change the rules.


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## rkintn (Dec 12, 2002)

sammyd said:


> they are not stealing, (that is the most despicable attitude I have seen) they are following the rules and doing what they need to in order to get by.
> If as some folks say on here there is such a tsunami of folks who don't agree then you need to change the rules.


Why would they do that? It's much easier to point fingers, make assumptions and broad generalizations and judge than to actually try and make a difference. Of course, if you don't agree with them then you must be a socialist LOL 

I'm not a socialist but I do agree that those folks have a right to eat and live how they want. Because here's the thing about government regulation....once it starts down that slippery slope, then the goobermint will be telling EVERYONE how to live. Heck, it's already started. But I guess that's okay cause those welfare scumbags won't be able to drink soda or eat ding dongs


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## Win07_351 (Dec 7, 2008)

Gercarson said:


> What a buncha socialist pant load. This post is the very reason this country has turned into a gimme, gimme instead of I can do it.


Agreed. One can only imagine where we might be now if Thomas Edison went down to apply for his food card and unemployment check after losing his job at the telegraph office as a young man.


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## Lyra (Sep 15, 2009)

At one point I was scrapping change together to buy food. I had my little hand basket of food for _the week_ and stood in line behind a woman and her two kids with a cart loaded with food. The woman and kids were all wearing designer clothes and looked like they came from money. I was shocked that she pulled out her "card" to pay. Since I didn't have a lot of items it didn't take long for me to get to the parking lot. I watched as the woman with the kids loaded their groceries into a top of the line SUV. 

That was my first, but not last, experience with the "poor".


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## Lyra (Sep 15, 2009)

Gercarson said:


> What a buncha socialist pant load. This post is the very reason this country has turned into a gimme, gimme instead of I can do it. AND has the gall to chastise people for wanting SOME sort of accountability We're beyond hope. A lot of these people are stealing from those who produce - they are users and no amount of defense will change that.


It would surprise many to learn that I was once a raging liberal since my views are now the complete opposite. My experiences working with the so-called "needy" are what woke me up to the lies of the progressives.


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## ChristyACB (Apr 10, 2008)

Gercarson said:


> What a buncha socialist pant load. This post is the very reason this country has turned into a gimme, gimme instead of I can do it. AND has the gall to chastise people for wanting SOME sort of accountability We're beyond hope. A lot of these people are stealing from those who produce - they are users and no amount of defense will change that.


Exactly!

You can tell by SammyD's post that there is a person who NEVER actually worked with some of these so called poor. 

Scam artists 99 times out of a 100. Disgusting losers trying to figure out how to steal more money from you and suck harder at the people's teetaa. 

That is how *I* lost all pity for the so-called poor and disadvantaged. Now I give to established groups that I know screen and have requirements for work for their gifts.

If I could stop paying taxes and not ruin my career...or rather, designate where my taxes go...I'd Pick NASA, Military, Infrastructure and almost anything else OTHER than welfare.


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## Gercarson (Nov 2, 2003)

rkintn said:


> I'm not a socialist but I do agree that those folks have a right to eat and live how they want.


You can attempt to be clever and even cavalier about the welfare recipients having the right to "steal" from the tax payers - but what they really are - are cannibals eating you and your children and your grandchildren. They have that RIGHT they are ENTITLED. You gave that "right" to them. Let them eat you alive. It's still stealing and wrong - yes, it's the product of socialism.
We've all agreed that there are legitimate cases where we ALL are eager to assist - but not to the extent that "they" have a right to eat and live how they want at the expense of everybody else who are legally robbed (jailed for non-payment of taxes) to give them that "right".
I can see how LOL would be appropriate here for those on the EBT way of living - so LOL!!


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## sammyd (Mar 11, 2007)

> You can tell by SammyD's post that there is a person who NEVER actually worked with some of these so called poor.


You shouldn't post things you have no idea of.
Scamming is one thing and I can't condone that but I can't stand the smug attitudes of most of the folks in this thread.
Oh I'm too rich and important...my career...I'll bet quite a few on the dole had that same attitude before the bottom fell out.


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## rkintn (Dec 12, 2002)

Gercarson said:


> You can attempt to be clever and even cavalier about the welfare recipients having the right to "steal" from the tax payers - but what they really are - are cannibals eating you and your children and your grandchildren. They have that RIGHT they are ENTITLED. You gave that "right" to them. Let them eat you alive. It's still stealing and wrong - yes, it's the product of socialism.
> We've all agreed that there are legitimate cases where we ALL are eager to assist - but not to the extent that "they" have a right to eat and live how they want at the expense of everybody else who are legally robbed (jailed for non-payment of taxes) to give them that "right".
> I can see how LOL would be appropriate here for those on the EBT way of living - so LOL!!


 
Well, you can always move to a different country if you think it would be better. There is always someone who thinks certain rights should be censored or monitored. Usually some ole gasbag who thinks everyone should live, work, believe, eat, breathe and think just like they do. I guess it's a good thing we still have the right to free speech.


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## Gercarson (Nov 2, 2003)

rkintn said:


> Well, you can always move to a different country if you think it would be better. There is always someone who thinks certain rights should be censored or monitored. Usually some ole gasbag who thinks everyone should live, work, believe, eat, breathe and think just like they do. I guess it's a good thing we still have the right to free speech.


LOL - as the leeches like to say.
If I were to move to a different country the leeches would starve - they can only consume and not produce. Lucky they have the right to free speech so they can beg for more free EBTs. Uusally some old gasbag who thinks everyone has at least SOME personal responsiblity for themselves and not depend on people who have only the legal duty to be stolen from. Good thing though, otherwise the leeches wouldn't be able to live, eat OR breath.


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## Prismseed (Sep 14, 2009)

I'm amazed the certainty with which people can yap when they clearly don't know anything about the system outside their own miserly whining about taxes being so hard on them. Boohoo.

Take your butts to a Social Services office on a Monday morning, watch, and get a clue.


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## rkintn (Dec 12, 2002)

Gercarson said:


> LOL - as the leeches like to say.
> If I were to move to a different country the leeches would starve - they can only consume and not produce. Lucky they have the right to free speech so they can beg for more free EBTs. Uusally some old gasbag who thinks everyone has at least SOME personal responsiblity for themselves and not depend on people who have only the legal duty to be stolen from. Good thing though, otherwise the leeches wouldn't be able to live, eat OR breath.


 
LMAO:baby04: Yes, I'm sure there is no one else as personally responsible as you and the others here who believe in gov't regulation for everyone but themselves.


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## Guest (Jul 25, 2010)

Prismseed said:


> I'm amazed the certainty with which people can yap when they clearly don't know anything about the system outside their own miserly whining about taxes being so hard on them. Boohoo.
> 
> *Take your butts to a Social Services office on a Monday morning, watch, and get a clue*.


*snort* I can attest that is an eye opener!

Even more of an eye opener is to live in an apartment or neighborhood where half the residents are 3rd and 4th generation welfare recipients.


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## sammyd (Mar 11, 2007)

Hang out on a ship with a bunch of young E1s -E-3s that depend on those food stamps to feed their kids. Those ---- thieves....


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## rkintn (Dec 12, 2002)

sammyd said:


> Hang out on a ship with a bunch of young E1s -E-3s that depend on those food stamps to feed their kids. Those ---- thieves....


Funny last time I checked military members worked and paid taxes. That doesn't fit with the lazy, multi generational welfare families that so many people here believe are using welfare so I am sure it will be discounted.

http://www.military.com/news/article/more-troops-are-relying-on-food-stamps.html


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

[QUOTE*]they are not stealing*, (that is the most despicable attitude I have seen) they are following the rules and doing what they need to in order to get by. [/QUOTE]

Many of them are

I saw a woman pay for a cart full of food with her card, and then pull out a wad of cash to pay for her OTHER cart that had beer, wine, and dog food.

She had a $200 "weave" hair do, and $50 worth of fake nails, lots of gold "bling" , was talking on her fancy cell phone, and went out and loaded all in a fairly new car with 20" chrome rims


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## Guest (Jul 25, 2010)

Bearfootfarm said:


> I saw a woman pay for a cart full of food with her card, and then pull out a wad of cash to pay for her OTHER cart that had beer, wine, and dog food.
> 
> She had a $200 "weave" hair do, and $50 worth of fake nails, lots of gold "bling" , was talking on her fancy cell phone, and went out and loaded all in a fairly new car with 20" chrome rims


Before welfare cash benefits were put on a card, I many times watched women cash their welfare checks at the grocery store and then immediately use $100 (or more) of it to buy lottery tickets.

Well, at least they were giving money back to the state. :shrug:

ETA: live in a welfare neighborhood and note the beer bottles and cigarette butts laying all over the yard. And the dozens of lottery ticket stubs in their cars!!


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## Ken Scharabok (May 11, 2002)

Discussion rather reminds me of something columnist Howard Stern said recently - many of the unemployed are responsible for their unemployment through poor work habits. I feel there are really two categories. Those unemployed through no fault of their own (e.g., employee contracts out work overseas and closes U.S. plants) and the poor work habits ones. Late, not showing up at all, not giving what the employer sees as a fair days work for a fair day's pay and he cites a negative attitude (and not getting along with other employees).

Added: I suspect most of those which 'abuse' the Food Stamp program fall into the latter group.


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## NickieL (Jun 15, 2007)

I haven't read the whole topic here, jsut he op and a few others. Like any system there are the folks it's designed to help that it does help, and those that would abuse the system. I don't begrudge anyone who needs the help from getting it. Those that abuse it will get what is coming to them, eventually.


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## Daddyof4 (Jan 5, 2004)

Ken Scharabok said:


> Discussion rather reminds me of something columnist Howard Stern said recently - many of the unemployed are responsible for their unemployment through poor work habits. I feel there are really two categories. Those unemployed through no fault of their own (e.g., employee contracts out work overseas and closes U.S. plants) and the poor work habits ones. Late, not showing up at all, not giving what the employer sees as a fair days work for a fair day's pay and he cites a negative attitude (and not getting along with other employees).
> 
> Added: I suspect most of those which 'abuse' the Food Stamp program fall into the latter group.


Absolutely!


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## Ken Scharabok (May 11, 2002)

A distrubing part of this to me is we are paying for poor food habits now and 20, 30, 40, etc. years in the future will be paying for health care for largely the same people.


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## willow_girl (Dec 7, 2002)

You people all must have a LOT more time on your hands than I do! On the relatively rare occasions I have to go to the store, I'm interested in getting what I need and getting out of there as quickly as possible. I scarcely notice the person ahead of me in line or what's in their cart -- I'm certainly not craning my neck over their shoulder to see whether that's an EBT or debit card they're using, or following them around the parking lot to see what they're driving. Sheesh!

Some folks really need to get a life!


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## ChristyACB (Apr 10, 2008)

sammyd said:


> Hang out on a ship with a bunch of young E1s -E-3s that depend on those food stamps to feed their kids. Those ---- thieves....


You know, having actually been an E-1 (24+ years ago) and now awaiting prezbo's signature after senate confirmation for my next rank (Oh, yeah, I made it!), I can say that I do understand the truly difficult times the lowest ranks have when it comes to making ends meet while being stationed at some of the most expensive places in the country.

However...

...while many do need that help and not all take it. There is another side too.

And believe me when I say I see this more and more in recent years; there are a lot of people coming in who simply don't have the work ethic needed to get by outside. They think this is automatic tenure (not so much anymore) and who do not behave responsibly.

Like a sailor with 7 young children, a wife who doesn't care to have anything to do with raising them and his countless excuses why they are ill behaved, with multiple kids on expulsion or suspension at a time and who need to come to work with him, where they raise cain. His constant excuses as to why he can't come to work. He uses of our fear of reprisal if we are seen to be unsympathetic to do basically nothing for his pay while others work overtime to make up for it. Not every sailor is some shining star. 

Irresponsible behavior happens in all walks of life. Responsible behavior does too. No one is automatically a "good" person vs a "bad" person by virtue of what they do. 

Personally, I'm sick to death of this culture of excuses and entitlement and it is creeping everywhere.


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## Sawmill Jim (Dec 5, 2008)

Some folks really need to get a life! 
__________________

Naw it an't like that atall  See after working ten hours at the sawmill in the heat an still can't afford to set the ac below 85 , you go to the store to cool off . On your way due to being low on gas you pass threw the local projects hoping you don't dent one them caddeys from sweat in your eyes . You get to the store and then you are again sweating from looking at the prices and dodge someone dressed to the nines with four children with light up tennis shoes pushing that heavy cart .Then at checkout they in the 12 item or less line with buzzers going off cause little Johnny tossed the wrong thing in the cash cart with the wine in it . ound:

Then back in the parking lot you looking a that bald tire when they come screaming by riding the back of the cart and you think they gunna hit that new SUV but that is where the rest of em are gathered .

So see some of us got a life we just notice folks that are doing better than us in hope of such high attainment for our self :clap::thumb:


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## big rockpile (Feb 24, 2003)

Ok what do you say about doing away with the Cards and going back to Commodities? I know I always enjoyed them but on the same token seen people getting them and throwing much of it away.

But in truth was Commodities really healthy for you?

big rockpile


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## pancho (Oct 23, 2006)

big rockpile said:


> Ok what do you say about doing away with the Cards and going back to Commodities? I know I always enjoyed them but on the same token seen people getting them and throwing much of it away.
> 
> But in truth was Commodities really healthy for you?
> 
> big rockpile


I can remember when commodities were given to people. I have eaten them also. Pretty good food or I was pretty hungry. It seems like such a better way to provide food for people having a bad time.


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## Guest (Jul 27, 2010)

big rockpile said:


> Ok what do you say about doing away with the Cards and going back to Commodities? I know I always enjoyed them but on the same token seen people getting them and throwing much of it away.
> 
> But in truth was Commodities really healthy for you?
> 
> big rockpile


They probably should have stuck with commodities and never invented food stamps.

Years and years ago when I was getting commodities, they gave out stuff like this:

Powdered milk
cheese
butter
dry beans and peas
flour
cornmeal
canned meat
canned fruits and vegetables
dried fruits
cooking oil

and so on.

The churches that distributed commodities would add various kinds of donated foods to the mix.

You could do pretty well that way without food stamps.


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## Sawmill Jim (Dec 5, 2008)

pancho said:


> I can remember when commodities were given to people. I have eaten them also. Pretty good food or I was pretty hungry. It seems like such a better way to provide food for people having a bad time.


What make them learn to cook and break one them fingernails :angel:

Buddy of mine been working construction in the projects said in this heat no one gets out much :flame: Should see this remodel they doing putting fancy posts on the porches making it look like a country estate even landscaping it for them too :smiley-laughing013:


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## big rockpile (Feb 24, 2003)

My Mom got a Job with the State going around showing people how to use Commodities,she even had her own Television Show doing this.

big rockpile


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## Sawmill Jim (Dec 5, 2008)

big rockpile said:


> My Mom got a Job with the State going around showing people how to use Commodities,she even had her own Television Show doing this.
> 
> big rockpile


Those that really wanted to do better problem watched it . Now days with 150 channels and retired folks not getting up early it would be hard to get them to watch it . My how things have got out of hand .

Less i move to the projects i can't afford Tv wouldn't have a Pc except son sent it to us :cowboy:


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## jross (Sep 3, 2006)

Daddyof4 said:


> Today at Kroger my wife and I were standing in line with our buggy of groceries. There was one lady with her groceries already on the conveyor ahead of us and a man and woman checking out at the front of the line.
> 
> After a few minutes we noticed that the line wasn't moving at all and people were piling up behind us. The lady in front of us was getting frustrated and finally threw her stuff back into the little hand-cart and found another line. What was the holdup?
> 
> ...


 It is called an entitlement, so they are entitled to to those products in their mind.


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## Daddyof4 (Jan 5, 2004)

willow_girl said:


> You people all must have a LOT more time on your hands than I do! On the relatively rare occasions I have to go to the store, I'm interested in getting what I need and getting out of there as quickly as possible. I scarcely notice the person ahead of me in line or what's in their cart -- I'm certainly not craning my neck over their shoulder to see whether that's an EBT or debit card they're using, or following them around the parking lot to see what they're driving. Sheesh!
> 
> Some folks really need to get a life!



Oh stop trying to do the "I'm taking the high road" bit! I don't think anyone on here is "following anyone around" or paying much attention to who is in line ahead. The ONLY reason I paid any attention was because the line was held up and I looked ahead to see what the problem was just as anyone, INCLUDING YOU would have done. I wasn't even looking at the people themselves but rather saw the checkout person holding up the EBT card and the energy drink. From that point it did bother me that this guy had no problem buying crap like that on the public dime.

So stop your superior, "I'm the mature one" nonsense. Sheeeeesh yourself. My life is just fine.


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## Guest (Jul 27, 2010)

I only spend about 20 bucks or so a week at the grocery store, but know that in this county, there are no industries at all, the choice here is work on a tobacco farm, in hundred degree weather, or work for the government. There is a world of people here that can't or won't do either one and qualify for the food stamp program. Last person I knew on them, got 400 a month for a family of three. Seems to me like a lot of groceries, but then again, they don't have an orchard, a garden or two, 44 layers, etc. It don't bother me that they get assistance. All in all, I'd much rather see those guys getting 400 a month than see a congressman spens 787 billion of taxpayer money to give huge contracts to his friends and family, all the while being on the payroll as an "advisor"
The big players do good by keeping the little guys at each other's throat. You never see billionaires arguing though.


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## tiffnzacsmom (Jan 26, 2006)

I really wonder how some of you know what your fellow shoppers are using to pay for their items so easily. The card issued for child support is similar here to the one used for unemployment and a similar color to the EBT one, I've gotten some nasty looks for using child support to buy clothes for my kids at Wal Mart. 

I guess some of you would be very upset if I had my mom's Mustang and took my friend to buy her parent's groceries for them. My mom and step dad are working and doing pretty ok, her parents are disabled and she cares for them around the clock. My parents own cars and boats her parents depend on food stamps and the food bank.


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## Guest (Jul 27, 2010)

tiffnzacsmom said:


> I really wonder how some of you know what your fellow shoppers are using to pay for their items so easily. The card issued for child support is similar here to the one used for unemployment and a similar color to the EBT one,


I guess it depends on where you live.

In Texas:

EBT:











Child Support Debit Card:











And the unemployment card is a Chase Bank debit card.


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## FyredUp (May 22, 2010)

Gercarson said:


> How hungry are your "kids" if you don't appreciate the largess that the government has stolen from the tax payer to feed you? You weren't frugal with your own money so now you have a chance at the taxpayer's - right? Why don't you shop "responsibly" so your EBT card will carry you through the month? Because you didn't pay for it means you should be concerned that "someone" did and you should have that respect for "redistribute the wealth" that you care enough to shop "responsibly".


I hope you never find yourself in trouble and need of public assistance because with the chip you have on your shoulder the thought of it would surely be enough to kill you.

The truth is places like WalMart have a notorious reputation for not paying a living wage or offering benefits to come close to allow many people to live on what they make. It was national news not so long ago about how roughly half of the people employed at WalMart were on some sort of public assistance. Golly I bet they pay taxes...


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## Sawmill Jim (Dec 5, 2008)

The truth is places like WalMart have a notorious reputation for not paying a living wage or offering benefits to come close to allow many people to live on what they make. It was national news not so long ago about how roughly half of the people employed at WalMart were on some sort of public assistance. Golly I bet they pay taxes...

Golly i bet they get back more than they pay in :bouncy:


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## sammyd (Mar 11, 2007)

The hate in here is palpable....
Or maybe it's envy......


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## FyredUp (May 22, 2010)

Sawmill Jim said:


> The truth is places like WalMart have a notorious reputation for not paying a living wage or offering benefits to come close to allow many people to live on what they make. It was national news not so long ago about how roughly half of the people employed at WalMart were on some sort of public assistance. Golly I bet they pay taxes...
> 
> Golly i bet they get back more than they pay in :bouncy:


Yep, those people barely scraping by and getting food stamps, or WIC, or medical assistance, are really living the high life. You willing to trade places with them? I suppose not. Easy to shoot your mouth off than actually address the issue with any type of serious, rational, positive solution. Typical...oh so typical.

As for me, I would rather have them working, being productive, paying taxes and getting some assistance, than sitting home getting everything paid for. maybe that option didn't occur to you...


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## FyredUp (May 22, 2010)

bluesky said:


> Many years ago when I was a young mother raising my four sons by myself after their dad left, going to nursing school full time and working part time, we were fortunate enough to get food stamps. I sometimes wondered how people were judging me, especially when I'd let my boys pick out their treat of the month - cookies or chips or pop or whatever they wanted - they each got to choose one thing and they got to eat what they called a "junk food supper". Yes, we could have spread those treats over many days but they were thrilled at being able to gorge on carp once a month and I didn't and don't feel guilty about it. The rest of the time we ate rice and beans and oatmeal and half liquid-half powdered milk and cheap meat and eggs and day old bread and I made those stamps stretch for the whole month.
> 
> I guess my point is that for every EBT recipient who consistently spends unwisely, there is most likely one who is doing his or her best to take care of their family (and maybe let them have a treat once in a while) and I don't begrudge them that.


Best post on this topic so far. Thank you for sharing your story.


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## FyredUp (May 22, 2010)

sammyd said:


> The hate in here is palpable....
> Or maybe it's envy......


No it is clearly hate, and with some of what was written it is clearly racially based hatred too.

Sad, that's all it is. I was beaten soundly for asking a question about what role religion played in people's prepping. I dared to ask. Now as I read these responses it is easy to understand why people didn't want to seriously talk about it. It meant they would have to look introspectfully at themselves and obviously that would have scared the crap out of some of them. WWJD? Indeed.


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## Sawmill Jim (Dec 5, 2008)

FyredUp All i said was the bottom part and i know lots that get back more than they pay in . I also know lots that live better than i do wife and i was talking about eight we know for sure .

You must have a Chrystal ball i don't hate anyone that works the system that is a full time job just doing the paper work .The quicker these libs break the system the faster we will get things on the right track . Am sure it will take years 

The Gov don't want people to get out of the projects i know some that have and it was tough they get a job their rent goes way high . Then there is some don't want out too.


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## Daddyof4 (Jan 5, 2004)

WWJD? He would expect people to work and earn a living, He would expect those of us who are doing okay to help those who are down on their luck. And that help would be VOLUNTARY. He would not approve of those who are down on their luck milking the system more than they should nor would He approve of those who are not down on their luck scamming the system. I have studied the Bible backwards and forwards and Jesus never condoned sloth or dishonesty. But he did love hard work, smart investing, and generosity to those who are actually in need.

And NOTHING about this is race based. In fact the original two people of this thread happened to be white...not that I cared what race they are as I leave that to the racists/liberals. I didn't bring up race at all since it was not an issue to us conservatives.

This thread has taken a predictable nosedive and it was really about stewardship. It was about using the system we have the right way. About respecting other people's tax money enough to try to stretch what they have. That was all.


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## ChristyACB (Apr 10, 2008)

FyredUp said:


> Yep, those people barely scraping by and getting food stamps, or WIC, or medical assistance, are really living the high life. You willing to trade places with them? I suppose not. Easy to shoot your mouth off than actually address the issue with any type of serious, rational, positive solution. Typical...oh so typical.
> 
> As for me, I would rather have them working, being productive, paying taxes and getting some assistance, than sitting home getting everything paid for. maybe that option didn't occur to you...


Yeah, but maybe working my 80 hour work week would interfere with their TV time.


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## FyredUp (May 22, 2010)

What an incredibly mean spirited place. 

There is quite the difference between someone scamming the system and a family struggling along on jobs that don't pay enough and getting some assistance until they can get back on their feet. I have no use for the scammers, but to lump everyone getting assistance in that category just shows blatant ignorance. Would those of you against assistance take it away for the 80 year old gramma living independently? Or the disabled war veteran who needs a hand? Or the developmentally disabled person working part-time and living independently, versus being institutionalized? There are shaeds of gray here it isn't all black and white.


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## Guest (Jul 28, 2010)

WWJD?

He said we would always have the poor amongst us.

Read the Book of Acts (my favorite Bible book, it's like reading an exciting novel). To those who have read it, remember not all that long after the Ascension, several of the Apostles began complaining because they were spending more time serving at the soup kitchen than they were spreading the Gospel.

So lots were cast and they picked who would run the soup kitchen and who would get on with the preaching.

The Bible clearly (and repeatedly), says that those who CAN work NEED to work. BUT there are dozens and dozens of passages throughout the Old and New Testaments that it is our responsibility to care for those who are unable to sufficiently provide their own living.

A few verses to ponder:

Prov. 19:17 When you help the poor you are lending to the Lord--and he pays wonderful interest on your loan! 

1 John 3:17 But if someone who is supposed to be a Christian has money enough to live well, and sees a brother in need, and won't help him--how can God's love be within him ? 1 John 3:18 Little children, let us stop just saying we love people; let us really love them, and show it by our actions. 1 John 3:19 Then we will know for sure, by our actions, that we are on God's side, and our consciences will be clear, even when we stand before the Lord. 

Prov. 14:31 Anyone who oppresses the poor is insulting God who made them. To help the poor is to honor God. 

James 1:27 The Christian who is pure and without fault, from God the Father's point of view, is the one who takes care of orphans and widows, and who remains true to the Lord--not soiled and dirtied by his contacts with the world. 

Psa. 82:3 Give fair judgment to the poor man, the afflicted, the fatherless, the destitute. Psa 82:4 Rescue the poor and helpless from the grasp of evil men. 

Prov. 21:13 He who shuts his ears to the cries of the poor will be ignored in his own time of need. 

Prov. 28:27 If you give to the poor, your needs will be supplied! But a curse upon those who close their eyes to poverty. 

Prov. 22:9 Happy is the generous man, the one who feeds the poor. 

1 Tim. 6:17 Tell those who are rich not to be proud and not to trust in their money, which will soon be gone, but their pride and trust should be in the living God who always richly gives us all we need for our enjoyment. 1 Tim. 6:18 Tell them to use their money to do good. They should be rich in good works and should give happily to those in need, always being ready to share with others whatever God has given them. 1 Tim. 6:19 By doing this they will be storing up real treasure for themselves in heaven--it is the only safe investment for eternity! And they will be living a fruitful Christian life down here as well.


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## ChristyACB (Apr 10, 2008)

FyredUp said:


> What an incredibly mean spirited place.
> 
> There is quite the difference between someone scamming the system and a family struggling along on jobs that don't pay enough and getting some assistance until they can get back on their feet. I have no use for the scammers, but to lump everyone getting assistance in that category just shows blatant ignorance. Would those of you against assistance take it away for the 80 year old gramma living independently? Or the disabled war veteran who needs a hand? Or the developmentally disabled person working part-time and living independently, versus being institutionalized? There are shaeds of gray here it isn't all black and white.


Fyred up...yes and almost everyone here would agree with you that the system was set up for those you just said. What most here are saying along with it is that the system has so little oversight and has become so easy that it is increasingly the parvenu of scammers and the terminally lazy.

It is hard to express any opinion on the frustration many of us feel as we carefully make menus, shop sales and carefully go through out fist full of coupons when faced, some of us every time, with the extravagant and unhealthy wastefulness we have to see being paid for by money that might have been able to make our own list more comfortable.

It almost seems like we have to caveat every expression of frustration and anger at the waste with a 2 page catalog of all the exceptions that aren't included.

I really did think by saying specifically....scammers, lazy, multigenerational welfare and so on....that I had excluded the adjectives that would include the ones the program is being used properly by.


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## FyredUp (May 22, 2010)

ChristyACB said:


> Fyred up...yes and almost everyone here would agree with you that the system was set up for those you just said. What most here are saying along with it is that the system has so little oversight and has become so easy that it is increasingly the parvenu of scammers and the terminally lazy.
> 
> It is hard to express any opinion on the frustration many of us feel as we carefully make menus, shop sales and carefully go through out fist full of coupons when faced, some of us every time, with the extravagant and unhealthy wastefulness we have to see being paid for by money that might have been able to make our own list more comfortable.
> 
> ...


And perhaps you did define it more clearly. But others have broadstroked and made subtle racial comments. I can't abide by either.


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## pancho (Oct 23, 2006)

I may be mistaken but those who are having a hard time making ends meet and are down on their luck need help. We will have to find another way of describing those who we have been helping for several generations.
What length of time would be considered down on your luck and needing a helping hand? Does it take 2-3 generations to get back on your feet? Are there some people who are having such a hard time that we need to take care of them their entire lives? How about the children of those down on their luck, do we take care of them their entire lives? 
Do we limit the time we help, or the amount given?


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## Guest (Jul 28, 2010)

pancho said:


> I may be mistaken but those who are having a hard time making ends meet and are down on their luck need help.


Depending on circumstances. Some people need a hand *up*. Nobody should get a hand *out* if it's just going to perpetuate their situation.



pancho said:


> We will have to find another way of describing those who we have been helping for several generations.


Ummm.... can't think of anything nice to call them.



pancho said:


> What length of time would be considered down on your luck and needing a helping hand? Does it take 2-3 generations to get back on your feet? Are there some people who are having such a hard time that we need to take care of them their entire lives? How about the children of those down on their luck, do we take care of them their entire lives?


If they are physically capable of working, they need to work.

I'm wondering if anyone is ever going to even try to wean these multigenerational welfare families off their benefits. 

You can't stop their welfare suddenly with no preparation. I shudder to think what kind of rioting that would result in. Cities would be getting burned down. Crime would skyrocket. 

I don't really know what the solution is, but rules need to be tightened up. Somehow these people need to be trained to work and get them some kind of jobs.



pancho said:


> Do we limit the time we help, or the amount given?


I think that would be a start.


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## Rainy (Jan 21, 2010)

My Mom(Grandma) use to get commodities,and I remember as a kid getting so excited. I swear i was really hungry or something because that butter and that cheese were awesome.
Someone was talking about how people know who's using a food stamp card... usually if you are behind those folks that do use the card they have no generic food in the carts and they are piled high with the best meats, tons of soda. I mean that is just how it is, and i live in a small town so if you are the one with no clearance food in your cart, you are the one on food stamps.I know this is probaly not the norm, but when you live with few people its just part of it.
I was on Food Stamps years ago when my Husband lost his job at Christmas,but we only stayed on them for 6months and they did not become our way of life. It is one thing to NEED them for a short amount of time, its another when it becomes EXPECTED every month for year after year.


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## chamoisee (May 15, 2005)

Uh, dude, Tattoos are sort of permanent. He may have gotten his tats when he was prosperous and then lost his job. I think it's sort of far fetched to assume that the family is on food stamps while he is wasting money getting thousands of dollars of body art.


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## seedspreader (Oct 18, 2004)

This is the danger of "State Money"... everyone has a right to speak up about it.

I don't begrudge anyone on food stamps. I hope they don't make it a lifestyle though.

I am glad we had food stamps available for people like Blue Sky and Tricky Gramma.

If the charity was more direct we would all be more charitable, but since it's a big blind government that both takes it, and doles it out, and is run by people who wouldn't have jobs if fewer people were getting food stamps... well, we're going to have this.


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## Daddyof4 (Jan 5, 2004)

seedspreader said:


> This is the danger of "State Money"... everyone has a right to speak up about it.
> 
> I don't begrudge anyone on food stamps. I hope they don't make it a lifestyle though.
> 
> ...


I agree with you 100%. But it took no time for several on here to not read the posts above them and to continue to mis-state that this was about race or about being selfish. Look at my last post above this one and then the ones immediately below it. It's like they don't read more than one post above themselves or they choose to "hear" what they want to hear. 

I blatently said this was not about race at all since I started the thread. It was not about not wanting to help. It was not about being selfish at all. It was about STEWARDSHIP and RESPECT of the help that is given. It was about those receiving help to at least make some effort to use each dollar wisely. It was about not receiving help and then using cash for luxury items I can't even afford. 

Maybe we should just type slower because it's obvious they can't read very well.


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## willow_girl (Dec 7, 2002)

> I blatently said this was not about race at all since I started the thread. It was not about not wanting to help. It was not about being selfish at all. It was about STEWARDSHIP and RESPECT of the help that is given. It was about those receiving help to at least make some effort to use each dollar wisely. It was about not receiving help and then using cash for luxury items I can't even afford.


Somewhere I recall someone instructing people not to covet their neighbor's possessions. 

I'm beginning to understand why.


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## FyredUp (May 22, 2010)

Daddyof4 said:


> I agree with you 100%. But it took no time for several on here to not read the posts above them and to continue to mis-state that this was about race or about being selfish. Look at my last post above this one and then the ones immediately below it. It's like they don't read more than one post above themselves or they choose to "hear" what they want to hear.
> 
> I blatently said this was not about race at all since I started the thread. It was not about not wanting to help. It was not about being selfish at all. It was about STEWARDSHIP and RESPECT of the help that is given. It was about those receiving help to at least make some effort to use each dollar wisely. It was about not receiving help and then using cash for luxury items I can't even afford.
> 
> Maybe we should just type slower because it's obvious they can't read very well.


Maybe YOU haven't made it about race but there have been several subtle and not so subtle racial comments made by others here. It wouldn't be so sadly funny if the truth weren't that there are more whites on assistance than blacks.


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## beccachow (Nov 8, 2008)

I really don't want to feed race-baiting, but...ayup. There WOULD be more whites on assistance than blacks. Stands to reason...there are more white people, hence the term, "minority." I'd be interested in percentages.

This drives me almost as batty as "racial profiling" in a predominantly black neighborhood, or the fact that in a black dominated city there are more blacks in jail. Again...hello?


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## Sawmill Jim (Dec 5, 2008)

Some can read what they want to into a chat board :help: Some of the ones i know no self respecting person would have anything to do with them no mater the race :grumble:

Lazy,or mean don't know any color .

Most times when some run out of logic they pull the race ,poor or some other card . Wife's x husband has been down on his luck nigh on forty years now :bouncy:


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## FyredUp (May 22, 2010)

There is no race baiting. Go back and read the comments. Like I said if you want specifics I will go find them.


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## JanS (Jul 28, 2002)

Txsteader said:


> And in the guy's defense, he could have already had the tatoos before he went on welfare.


More likely is that he isn't on welfare at all. He probably has a job and lives with a woman and children who are, enjoying their food stamps, section 8 housing, etc.


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## JanS (Jul 28, 2002)

JuliaAnn said:


> But Michelle Obama ISN'T going to do anything of the sort, because it would mean losing potential votes. If she or her husband/regime restricted what can be bought on EBT, you can bet the ones getting the benefits will scream bloody murder over it. Can't lose those potential voters, can they?


Because as we all know, the policy of allowing junky foods has only been in place since a Democratic president took office. Actually your post makes me admire Mrs. Obama all the more. She surely must be the first First Lady with the power to "restrict what can be bought on EBT".


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## Guest (Jul 28, 2010)

beccachow said:


> I really don't want to feed race-baiting, but...ayup. There WOULD be more whites on assistance than blacks. Stands to reason...there are more white people, hence the term, "minority." I'd be interested in percentages.


http://www.nhregister.com/articles/2009/11/03/news/a7-foodstamps.txt

http://www.npc.umich.edu/poverty/


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## jerzeygurl (Jan 21, 2005)

willow_girl said:


> Somewhere I recall someone instructing people not to covet their neighbor's possessions.
> 
> I'm beginning to understand why.


welfare recipients ARE coveting my possesions.


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## TJN66 (Aug 29, 2004)

jerzeygurl said:


> welfare recipients ARE coveting my possesions.


Good point!


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## Sawmill Jim (Dec 5, 2008)

jerzeygurl said:


> welfare recipients ARE coveting my possesions.


I'm so poor i'm coveting theirs . :grumble: Have tried hiring some folks to stack lumber why you would though i insulted them i think i did :sob::sob:


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## JanS (Jul 28, 2002)

beccachow said:


> On the belt: Doritos, three candy bars (I will allow the candy bars as a "treat" for her kids), another jumbo bag of chips, several 3 liter bottles of soda, various other junk food items including snack cakes and such as well as a package of diapers, all of which I paid for via her EBT card as I stood there


Just mildly curious as to how you know it was an EBT card. Don't they look just like debit and credit cards? Personally I'm careful never to get too close when someone else is paying so they don't think I'm after their PIN. The reason I'm wondering is that EBT replaces the old FOOD stamps, only for use with FOOD. She could not have used it to pay for diapers.


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## Guest (Jul 28, 2010)

JanS said:


> The reason I'm wondering is that EBT replaces the old FOOD stamps, only for use with FOOD. She could not have used it to pay for diapers.


The EBT card has food stamps loaded on it, but many welfare recipients also get monthly payments of money. That is also loaded on the EBT card. So yes, an EBT card can pay for diapers.


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## Daddyof4 (Jan 5, 2004)

FyredUp said:


> Maybe YOU haven't made it about race but there have been several subtle and not so subtle racial comments made by others here. It wouldn't be so sadly funny if the truth weren't that there are more whites on assistance than blacks.


Really? Which posts are those, specifically? 

The "sadly funny" part is that there are those who stupidly think that any mention of race in a topic such as this must automatically mean racism is afoot. 

If I had come right out and said the two in that line were white nobody would have screamed racism. But had it been two black, hispanic, or Asian people in line and mentioned that two (insert minority here) people were trying to abuse the system the liberal radars (which are set on "knee-jerk") would have been sounding off. 

And that ridiculous "covet" remark above is so misplaced it is laughable.


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## pancho (Oct 23, 2006)

FyredUp said:


> Maybe YOU haven't made it about race but there have been several subtle and not so subtle racial comments made by others here. It wouldn't be so sadly funny if the truth weren't that there are more whites on assistance than blacks.


Could you please post the percentages?


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## FyredUp (May 22, 2010)

39% white 11,661,000 of 29,900,000 recipients 

38% black 11,362,000 of 29,900,000 

17% Hispanic 5,083,000 of 29,900,000


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## FyredUp (May 22, 2010)

Daddyof4 said:


> Really? Which posts are those, specifically?
> 
> The "sadly funny" part is that there are those who stupidly think that any mention of race in a topic such as this must automatically mean racism is afoot.
> 
> ...


The cadilac reference, the stealing the shoes reference...There are more I just don't care enough to go look. Both are stereotypically applied to blacks in this context.


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## beccachow (Nov 8, 2008)

JanS said:


> Just mildly curious as to how you know it was an EBT card. Don't they look just like debit and credit cards? Personally I'm careful never to get too close when someone else is paying so they don't think I'm after their PIN. The reason I'm wondering is that EBT replaces the old FOOD stamps, only for use with FOOD. She could not have used it to pay for diapers.


It was still in it's sleeve, along with a highly identifiable MA card that she laid out from the same sleeve (she lined them all up on the counter). I am not a lurker :teehee:! I was putting my bottle of water on the counter and glimpsed it, but I was too busy making cutsie noises at the baby...she was adorable...! I know she ended up paying $5 for something, but I am not sure for what. I know her cart was full of nonsense, and then the diapers, so perhaps it was the diapers she needed to pay a percentage for or something. I recall a quick exchange between teller and customer before she pulled out the $5 and change. Ironically, I would have bought her the diapers if I hadn't just "paid" for all the rest of her stuff. I have forked over cash in parking lots before, and been pleasantly surprised when the person actually went in the store and bougt food, diapers, etc, so that isn't a new concept for me, even as evil as I am!!!

Pancho, Ladycat linked a few interesting reads. The percentages appear to be unfavorably tilted towards minority (not just black, by the way), now that Fyredup mentioned it. I find nothing funny in 90% of black children being dependant on food stamps per one of her links. Here in Baltimore, they instituted a summer lunch program because they realized that kids were depending on school lunches to at least get one hot "nutritous" meal. Nope, not funny, sadly or otherwise.  I have said it before, it is a shame when kids suffer for the parent's bad choices. And NO I am not saying all parents on Welfare made bad choices, but a lot certainly have.


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## beccachow (Nov 8, 2008)

By the way, Fyredup, I didn't mean to come at you specifically. This is one of my pet peeves, not your fault. 

I just went back and re-read your percentages, can you let us know where they came from? Seems to be some disparity in the numbers. I guess any poll can be spun to read however the pollster wants it to read, both for an argument or against one.


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## Guest (Jul 28, 2010)

FyredUp said:


> The cadilac reference, the stealing the shoes reference...There are more I just don't care enough to go look. Both are stereotypically applied to blacks in this context.


My son has a Cadillac. I don't know exactly what that has to do with anything. Also, the local pharmacist has one too.


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## Guest (Jul 28, 2010)

Interesting info in this PDF document on the Health and Human Services website.

It's several years out of date, though.

http://aspe.hhs.gov/hsp/01trends/ES2.pdf


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## Sawmill Jim (Dec 5, 2008)

Both are stereotypically applied to blacks in this context.

In this area only if they had 24'' wheels times have changed :help: Also around here old white guys drive caddy's . I got a buddy that is black has almost new one they wouldn't know a food stamp card if they saw one owns 21 houses nice ones too . Ask him once about someone in the bad part of town he said he stayed away from all non working folks . One time he had 3 jobs an his wife worked too .

Last house he bought was because wife said there was rif raf hanging out at it an she went that street to church . It was someones else's rental . Told him i bet you over paid for it he said no matter his wife said buy it .


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## VERN in IL (Nov 30, 2008)

I really feel that food stamp credit cards should be DEDUCTED from your social security benefits. Then it's not really a handout!


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## Guest (Jul 29, 2010)

Interesting news story from a few months ago.

http://jacksonville.com/news/metro/...clerks_busted_in_statewide_food_stamp_fraud_s

ETA: read the comments underneath.


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## pancho (Oct 23, 2006)

FyredUp said:


> 39% white 11,661,000 of 29,900,000 recipients
> 
> 38% black 11,362,000 of 29,900,000
> 
> 17% Hispanic 5,083,000 of 29,900,000


Sorry, what I meant was the percentages in ratio to the population.
White 11,661,000 
Black 11,362,000
Hispanic 5,083,000

What is the percentage of white recipients out of total white population?
What is the percentage of black recipients of total black population?
What is the percentage of hispanic recipients of total hispanic population.

Just looking at the numbers of recipients of each race doesn't really tell the full story. If possible I would like to know the percentages of recipients compared to their total population. Seems like a more accurate way of comparing.


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## pancho (Oct 23, 2006)

beccachow said:


> Pancho, Ladycat linked a few interesting reads. The percentages appear to be unfavorably tilted towards minority (not just black, by the way), now that Fyredup mentioned it. I find nothing funny in 90% of black children being dependant on food stamps per one of her links. Here in Baltimore, they instituted a summer lunch program because they realized that kids were depending on school lunches to at least get one hot "nutritous" meal. Nope, not funny, sadly or otherwise.  I have said it before, it is a shame when kids suffer for the parent's bad choices. And NO I am not saying all parents on Welfare made bad choices, but a lot certainly have.


Thanks, I went back and read the links.

Thanks Ladycat. I am not that good at looking things up and appreciate very much those who can. I am also very interested in learning. There is so much that I don't know.
I just don't really know how I feel about the EBT system. It can do so much good but at the same time it can be used in some ways it was never intended to be used.


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## tamilee (Apr 13, 2005)

Kmac15 said:


> funny this should come up LOL
> Both my sisters work in a grocery store and were visiting me this past weekend. Knowing that this subject comes up on a regular basis I asked some very pointed questions.
> 
> They tell me that they can tell how a person is going to pay for their groceries by what is in the cart.
> ...


Amazing. My ds got food stamps. He would buy junk food galore and ALWAYS purchased crab legs and shrimp and brand name ice cream.

I purchased veggies, fruit, beans and rice.
I know it sounds hateful but it really angered me that he could afford to eat higher off the hog, so to speak ,while he was unemployed than I could afford working 7 days a week.


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## Guest (Jul 29, 2010)

I have an idea. I think welfare recipients should be drug tested. Regularly and without warning. 

I think if this were done, it would do a good job of getting the abusers out of the system.


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## Guest (Jul 29, 2010)

pancho said:


> What is the percentage of white recipients out of total white population?
> What is the percentage of black recipients of total black population?
> What is the percentage of hispanic recipients of total hispanic population.
> 
> Just looking at the numbers of recipients of each race doesn't really tell the full story. *If possible I would like to know the percentages of recipients compared to their total population.* Seems like a more accurate way of comparing.


That's the info I've been trying to google but I've been unsuccessful.


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## Daddyof4 (Jan 5, 2004)

FyredUp said:


> The cadilac reference, the stealing the shoes reference...There are more I just don't care enough to go look. Both are stereotypically applied to blacks in this context.


So you want to throw out your "racism" generalities but don't want to do five minutes of effort to back it up? And are black people the only ones who drive caddies? My parents had one and they weren't black. Are black people the only ones who steal shoes? I doubt it. 

Funny how someone posts something about EBT and a cadillac in the same thought and it is the liberal/racist mindset that immediately equates black with both the card and the cadillac. Same for the shoe remark. 

We've found the racists and it ain't the conservatives.


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## Daddyof4 (Jan 5, 2004)

willow_girl said:


> Somewhere I recall someone instructing people not to covet their neighbor's possessions.
> 
> I'm beginning to understand why.


Nothing covetous about it. And yet another of those words thrown out there when all else fails to justify the ridiculous indignation some vent on when they miss the point that has been clearly listed several times.


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## willow_girl (Dec 7, 2002)

> welfare recipients ARE coveting my possesions.


Are they really? Are they craning their heads to determine YOUR method of payment in the grocery store checkout line? Eying your Ipod or cellphone, following you out to the parking lot to see what YOU'RE driving? Are they forming PACs and lobbying their elected officials to increase their allotments by raising taxes of working people? Or are they merely signing up for whatever charity society has seen fit to provide for them, and taking what they get? 

Oh, I see the WIC program does have a lobbying arm -- I'm not sure any poor people are involved, however. I see General Mills, Kellogg Corp., J.P. Morgan and Gerber are among the group's partners. It seems the poor have some very wealthy friends! 

I wonder how many people who have posted nasty things here have ever been poor themselves, or lived in a poor neighborhood. (I've been and done both.) Welfare mothers have been my friends, neighbors, even lovers. There is not much to envy in the lifestyle, trust me on this one! Most poor women live in lousy apartments. They struggle to keep the heat and lights turned on, and their car running, if they're so fortunate as to have one. (Shortly before moving to PA, I advertised an old beater car for sale for parts, and was besieged by calls from single mothers desperate for transportation. I recall telling one woman, "It needs brakes, and some front end work," to which she replied hopefully, "But it runs, right? It can be driven?"). (I could not in good conscience sell that car to a person who was probably going to kill herself in it while trying to take her baby to the doctor.)

In 2008 (the most recent year for which I could readily find statistics) the welfare benefits paid to a family of three (think, "mom and two kids") was less than $700 a month in 48 states. Can you imagine trying to keep a roof over your family's head on that amount? "Get a job," you say? Statistics I recently posted elsewhere indicate that right now there are six job-seekers vying for every available position in our country. 

Incidentally, regarding that $700 a month: I doubt it pays for much bling, manicures, cellphones, SUVs, etc. When you see a woman decked out like that, she's almost certainly ripping off the system. She's not attaining those luxuries thanks to TANF; she either has a well-heeled partner or a job on the side. 

Actually, I've never known a woman on welfare who didn't have an under-the-table job of some sort -- the welfare allotment simply isn't enough to keep a roof over one's head otherwise. The women I knew earned money by babysitting, cleaning motel rooms, washing dishes, waiting tables, and other forms of menial labor. A few were sex workers. (Ha, saw a bumper sticker recently with the slogan, "I support single mothers!" accompanied by the silhouette of a pole dancer.) Think long and hard: is that really a lifestyle of which you're envious?


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## Sawmill Jim (Dec 5, 2008)

Some states they get great housing rent based on income they furnish frig,stove central heat and air mow your yard .Have subsised water and electric . Their man the one that left them has the car and some even have a real job they visit seven nights a weak .

One place they are remolding putting up fancy porch posts the whole nine yards . So no taxes no insurance no up keep not even a yard to mow .:shrug:

One time my wife was working at a Gov ran daycare lady drooped her child off so she could go to the beauty shop for a hair do .We darn sure couldn't afford it . Then to top it off they couldn't pick their children up on time state didn't want to pay wife overtime . Yep those contact numbers they leave you with good luck :grit: Ok off my :soap:


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## FyredUp (May 22, 2010)

Daddyof4 said:


> So you want to throw out your "racism" generalities but don't want to do five minutes of effort to back it up? And are black people the only ones who drive caddies? My parents had one and they weren't black. Are black people the only ones who steal shoes? I doubt it.
> 
> Funny how someone posts something about EBT and a cadillac in the same thought and it is the liberal/racist mindset that immediately equates black with both the card and the cadillac. Same for the shoe remark.
> 
> We've found the racists and it ain't the conservatives.


Liberal mindset? Really? That's hysterical. Because I don't like the subtle and not so subtle racial overtones posted by some I must be a liberal whackjob. That's the problem when you run out of worthwhile things to say or the ability to defend what you have said, you have to resort to name calling and trying to discredit the other person. I merely pointed out that some references had obvious racial overtones. If you didn't post any of them then why are you all up in arms? Or perhaps you think you did and don't like being called on it. 

Funny thing about your feeble attempt to label me is at work with a bunch of liberal democrats as co-workers I am always called the ultra-conservative republican.

I guess you are saying in your mind finding racism is liberal, being racist is conservative? That doesn't bode well for conservatives.


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## Sawmill Jim (Dec 5, 2008)

Finding racism that don't exist is what libs do best . They can even find racism reading the ingredients on a box of crereos :help:

You must work at the fruit loop factory if they are more liberal sounding :sob:


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## FyredUp (May 22, 2010)

Sawmill Jim said:


> Finding racism that don't exist is what libs do best . They can even find racism reading the ingredients on a box of crereos :help:
> 
> You must work at the fruit loop factory if they are more liberal sounding :sob:


And there it is again. Nothing worthwhile to add so attack the poster with silly, cutesy, nonsense. Both you and Daddyof4 are really sad individuals if that is all you have left to say.


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## Sawmill Jim (Dec 5, 2008)

Don't know about Daddyof 4 but i am the happiest Tennessee right wing nut in this state :sing: And what you think of me is non of my business:shrug:


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## sammyd (Mar 11, 2007)

> My parents had one and they weren't black


Did they live in th projects too?


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## Tricky Grama (Oct 7, 2006)

FyredUp said:


> Maybe YOU haven't made it about race but there have been several subtle and not so subtle racial comments made by others here. It wouldn't be so sadly funny if the truth weren't that there are more whites on assistance than blacks.


Wondering how this is a racial discussion when more white folks are on welfare than black folks?


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## texican (Oct 4, 2003)

Tricky Grama said:


> Wondering how this is a racial discussion when more white folks are on welfare than black folks?


Was thinking the same thing...

There are conservatives and liberals talking about welfare... so of course the conservatives are cross burning sheet wearing racists (no offense to the deceased Senator Byrd), and the liberals are holders of the flame, the beacon for advancement (oh, forget that... the foot on the neck of poor Blacks [and whites] on welfare is the Democratic Party).

Momma drove a caddy, daddy bought it for her. No govt. aid... he was one of those white gents that got turned down for all the USDA loans... wonder if I could sue on his behalf, seeing as Black Farmers that were turned down have sued and are getting massive settlements.


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## Daddyof4 (Jan 5, 2004)

FyredUp said:


> Liberal mindset? Really? That's hysterical. Because I don't like the subtle and not so subtle racial overtones posted by some I must be a liberal whackjob. That's the problem when you run out of worthwhile things to say or the ability to defend what you have said, you have to resort to name calling and trying to discredit the other person. I merely pointed out that some references had obvious racial overtones. If you didn't post any of them then why are you all up in arms? Or perhaps you think you did and don't like being called on it.
> 
> Funny thing about your feeble attempt to label me is at work with a bunch of liberal democrats as co-workers I am always called the ultra-conservative republican.
> 
> I guess you are saying in your mind finding racism is liberal, being racist is conservative? That doesn't bode well for conservatives.


Ha ha! Feeble attempt? Hardly. I have FAR from run out of things to say. And it is you who needs to prove the racism you so clearly believe. But you try to dilute it by saying "subtle or not so subtle racial overtones". That way you can straddle the fence and fall back to safety once someone disproves your rant. And you can also claim that you didn't call anyone names when in fact you have but you haven't had the courage to name the ones you are accusing. You still have failed to read the entire thread and then reference some of the racial comments. 

Frankly the word racist is thrown out there all the time so much that the meaning has been watered down to include anyone who even references a a very real characteristic of a given race or even challenges a person of another race on any issue even when the vast, VAST majority of the time it isn't even about color. Historically it is the liberals who are racists. They are the ones who usually bring up race in any discussion, political or otherwise. They are the ones who obviously believe black people or other minorities can't succeed in life and need constant government intervention and support. They are even the ones who started this idiotic hyphenated American nonsense. Frankly the minorities in this country should be insulted by the placating and condescension of the libs toward them.


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## Guest (Jul 30, 2010)

Daddyof4 said:


> Frankly the word racist is thrown out there all the time so much that the meaning has been watered down to include anyone who even references a a very real characteristic of a given race


African-Americans have dark skin.

Was that racist? :teehee:


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## Sawmill Jim (Dec 5, 2008)

ladycat said:


> African-Americans have dark skin.
> 
> Was that racist? :teehee:


Depends on your definition of dark ,tone of voice , application of use in a statement and direction of the wind blowing :tmi:

Also if your are white and say the D word :bouncy:


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## GoatsRus (Jan 19, 2003)

Old Vet said:


> I can remember before food stamps were available. The Government gave away food (Commodities) and let that go to the ones that were in need. Then the producers got together and had Food Stamps passed then they got together and said that Food stamps were shaming the people so they went to the EBT cards. It is profitable for everyone to be able to get junk foods and not about to change. The pour eat well on everything that the government gave them but now the producers get more money.


They still give away commodities here. My elderly neighbor gets hers once a month I believe.


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## Guest (Jul 30, 2010)

Sawmill Jim said:


> Depends on your definition of dark ,tone of voice , application of use in a statement and direction of the wind blowing :tmi:
> 
> Also if your are white and say the D word :bouncy:


I'm not white, I'm pinkish tan.

If I spend too much time in the sun I'm light brown.


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## willow_girl (Dec 7, 2002)

A conservative commentator on the radio this morning labeled the new tax proposed on tanning salons a "cracker tax." (Presumably darker-skinned people would have no reason to visit a tanner.) Somehow I suspect that wasn't really the intent of the proposal, but ... :shrug:


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