# whose cow is it?



## marytx (Dec 4, 2002)

Some of y'all might remember that my DH arranged to buy some Wagyu cattle from a friend. And as you might guess, when you buy from a friend, things never turn out exactly the way you expect.

First off, we expected to pick them up at the friend's farm about a half hour from here. Found out, just today, when we were ready to pick them up, that they were at the son's farm, an HOUR from here. Due to bad directions (and my husband is one who can find ANYTHING!) it took at an hour and a half to actually find the farm in the first place, and it was way after dark getting home.

But to the point. We payed for these cattle a couple of weeks or more ago, and they told us they'd be happy to hold them until we were ready to get them as long as we paid. 

So while attempting to load the heifers onto our trailer, through a poorly constructed make-shift loading chute, the friend and son had trouble with one that tried to turn around and it jumped up onto a t-post, gashing itself open at the belly.

Friend said something about keeping that one; son said something about having to take it to the vet tomorrow.

Even though we had already paid for the cattle, so they were "ours," I do not want that heifer. Fact is, I didn't really want any of them, but there you are. I do not want to pay the vet bill, and I certainly do not want to make that long drive again, which we had never bargained for.

Help! Is this my cow, and am I therefore responsible for the vet and going back for her, or can I reasonably expect a reimbursement?


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## gone-a-milkin (Mar 4, 2007)

It depends on how good of 'friends' they are.
If you took her on the trailer after it happened? Not sure you can make him take her back.
I am so sorry that happened.
Talk to the man who sold the cows. Actually, your DH should do it. He is the one who made this deal.

Is she real bad? Injuries happen at loading times and with shipping in general. 
A true cattleman will know this and do right by you and your husband.

Here's hoping it comes out okay.
Try not to be mad at the cows, it isnt their fault.

I am still looking forward to pics when you get time.


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## marytx (Dec 4, 2002)

Thanks. The heifer never went on our trailer, she went over the fence of the "loading chute" and back with the others in the pen. There was no further attempt to load her; she stayed behind. I am hoping they will not expect us to come back for her and that they will offer reimbursement. I'm telling myself that however it turns out, a friendship is worth more than the irritation or the possible loss of money.

I will surely take photos of the ones that came home tomorrow.

I'm so far not crazy about them. But hopefully I'll look with a kinder eye on them tomorrow.


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## agmantoo (May 23, 2003)

At my place when the trailer hit the highway what you bought would be yours. What happens on my place would still be my responsibility. I would also want your cash and not a check if you bought off the farm. Remember when you hit the road they are yours and your money, and not a cancelable check, should be mine.


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## gone-a-milkin (Mar 4, 2007)

If they failed to load her then I think you are alright.
Get the DH to talk to the seller about what happened (not the son or firiend, but the owner of the animals).
If they are friends, then he will likely be willing to refund.

I have a feeling it will all come out okay.


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## springvalley (Jun 23, 2009)

I think they should refund the money for the heifer, I would anyway. > Thanks Marc


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## myersfarm (Dec 24, 2004)

I would have called OWNER...and found out what to do RIGHT THEN

Since you payed ahead 

if he said she was yours then YOU COULD DECIDE WHAT TO DO WITH HER....leave , take to vet , butcher...
.let me hit you with this what if they take to vet ....want you to pay...and then they say she dies.....price of cow ... vet bill..of $200 and no cow...will you still have a friend then 

if he said you could get a refund then it would be settled


all I can say is SETTLE IT NOW DO NOT LET IT BREW first thing in the morning


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## myersfarm (Dec 24, 2004)

On my farm if they get on your trailer and get hurt ( you can not believe what some trailers floors look like or the missing boards ) there yours
if they break there leg jumping on your trailer there mine

and as with you if they never got on your trailer they were never yours


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## thequeensblessing (Mar 30, 2003)

If any of our livestock got hurt before loading onto your trailer, they are ours. If they get hurt after they are onboard your trailer, they are yours. I'd certainly talk to this friend ASAP.
We had a similar, but different situation recently. We sold a Jersey milk cow to a friend. We agreed on $1000.00 for her with the understanding that she is bred and if she has a heifer, we get the heifer, and if she has a bull, the calf goes with her. We agreed to take monthly payments for her. These same friends borrowed 200.00 to buy a butcher hog when we all got hogs to butcher last Feb. They gave us a payment of 100.00 in November, and then nothing more. Months went by, then, hubby asked him if he still wanted the cow. He said yes, and that he'd pay us up completely when he got his taxes back. A week ago, he gave us a check for 900.00. We figured this was for the cow, which we're going to keep and house for them until they get their barn set up for her. Hubby asked him about the 200 for the pig. The friend said that the 900 paid him up in full. He claims we sold the cow for 800. Hubby and I looked at each other, shook our heads and decided to just let it go. We're not going to raise our blood pressure over 200.00, however, neither are we going to ever get into any financial business with these people again. We had nothing in writing, so it's simply his word against ours as to the price agreed on. Whatever happened to a gentlemen's agreement? Lesson learned, and an expensive one. We consider ourselves lucky we got 900.00 from them!
Hopefully, your hubbys friend is more honest than ours was.


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## marytx (Dec 4, 2002)

I've never been crazy about dealing with friends or friends of friends. I've found that, like loaning to family members, you may or may not ever see the money. I'm hoping for the best on this one. We'll see them, I think, tonight, at a church social, and if DH doesn't bring it up, I might. I bit my tongue pretty hard last night to keep my mouth shut.

And in other news, two of these yearlings went through the fence to the neighbor's this morning, so DH has been out repairing fence all morning, after I got them back through.

We had been told they were a little smaller than Angus. They are a LOT smaller. They are more like miniature cattle, not much more than half the size of the two I already had that are almost exactly the same age.

We're already talking about "phasing out this breed."


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## TroutRiver (Nov 26, 2010)

I would definitely plan to bring it up with them, sooner rather than later, if you want to get your money back. If you paid for that heifer, and she got hurt and never got on your trailer, and you were never given a refund, then you need to ask the owner about it. If she were my animal that I was selling, I would offer you a refund. Either way, memories get fuzzy after time, so the longer you wait the harder this will be to sort out. Ask about it now while it's still fresh in everyone's mind. Call them if you don't want to bring it up in public.


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## marytx (Dec 4, 2002)

Fast forward. Last week Friend started talking to DH about replacing this heifer with a different one. I did not want a different one, I wanted our money back. DH told him we did not want to make the trip back down there, and he offered to deliver the heifer. Still didn't want her, but figured if that's the way he wanted to make good, we'd do that.

New heifer hasn't come but was planned to come tomorrow.

So last night Friend hit DH up for the vet bill on the first heifer. $600!!! DH explained about it being his cow until it got on the trailer and about it getting injured because he and his son had pushed it so that it jumped up onto the t-post of their poorly constructed pen. Friend thought it was DH's fault because he was "standing there" on the other side of the trailer, ready to close gate when they loaded.

Evidently after a few words, friend is willing to split the vet bill and we pay $300. It was, he says, our cow, since we had paid for it.

I told DH as far as I am concerned they can KEEP the replacement heifer, but I am NOT inclined to pay their vet bill.

GRRR

This is, so far, not going well. I didn't feel like we could lose a friendship over something so trivial, but even DH thinks Friend is being unreasonable to deal with.


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## myersfarm (Dec 24, 2004)

I guess I will just have to ask HOW MUCH DID YOU GIVE FOR HEIFER....a $600 vet bill on a $1000 heifer just does not make since to anybody

read my # 7 post...had worked as manager 31 years I had to deal with people like this all the time...why you settle it THEN...then you get to decide what to do


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## marytx (Dec 4, 2002)

We paid $500 for the heifer. In my mind, they are such scrawny animals she was not even worth that.

DH just talked with another friend in the cattle industry who thinks the best we can do is pay half the bill. I feel like we got screwed on this one.

I know that's our fault for dealing with a "friend" and for buying cattle sight unseen.


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## Pearl B (Sep 27, 2008)

> This is, so far, not going well. I didn't feel like we could lose a friendship over something so trivial, but even DH thinks Friend is being unreasonable to deal with.


If someone trys to ream me financially over something that isnt my fault to begin with, Im not real inclined to consider them much of a friend.


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## G. Seddon (May 16, 2005)

I tend to agree with Pearl B. What an ugly, ugly situation!!! So many things went wrong (bad loading chute, terrible injury to the heifer, paying full amount up front, etc.). Do you know how the animal is by the way?

mary,tx -- hope things look up for you and that you can find a couple of decent animals without all these problems. They're out there, just be careful.


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## 7thswan (Nov 18, 2008)

Tell him flat out no. The cow remained his until it went off of his property. Once it was in your possession-it became yours.When you paid for the cows-you paid for a uninjured cow. Lets just say for instance-what if he had delivered them to you in the first place and one got to your farm injured-does he then think he could drop off an injured cow?No. 

You have every right to get what you paid for,I'm sure a Judge would agree.A civil suit is very cheep to file.

600.00 is also insane for a vet bill for a cow. I do all of our vet work.1 time tho, I had a cow prolapse,after putting her uterus back in every day,,,,it simply wasn't going to stay. I called a vet, he too lived far from our farm so we had to meet at my parents farm. He sedated her,washed her off and put her insides back in and sutured her up. All of that and the farm call cost 35.00. If this "friend" expected you to pay 600.00 dollars for a vet bill-he should have asked you first. This person is no friend,they are scamming you. BTDT.


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## myersfarm (Dec 24, 2004)

I have had to think of this now...I would ask him to produce the $600 bill.....a C section only cost $200 and I am sure what they did would not cost as much as that and the medicine would be the same

also ask him if the roles were reversed and he bought a $500 cow and then you asked him to pay a $600 vet bill....sounds like he was spending YOUR MONEY SO HE DID ..IF THE BILL WAS THAT HIGH


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## marytx (Dec 4, 2002)

You're right, $600 is outrageous. But I don't think this man is dishonest, I think he just hasn't been in the cattle business long enough to understand that when someone pays for an animal, they expect to be loaded a healthy animal. I actually think he feels like we are somehow cheating HIM.

I would never even DREAM of charging someone for an animal that I caused to be injured before it even left my property. I would have apologized profusely and given the money back on the spot.

It seemed to me that it went without saying that we expected to be given a healthy animal for our money. I don't understand why we should be the ones to eat this expense.

It's going to be hard to look at him the same way, for a long, long time, I'm afraid. We go to church together, so it's not like we can just stop running into him.


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## unregistered41671 (Dec 29, 2009)

Hurt before your trailer....... their problem.
Hurt after loaded on your trailer...... your problem. IMO


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## myersfarm (Dec 24, 2004)

...I think he is your friend BUT YOU ARE NOT HIS......


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## marytx (Dec 4, 2002)

No, he was there. He met us at his son's place. We had expected to meet him at his place, so that was an irritation right at the start that we had to go so much further to get them. But he was there. He and his son ran the heifer up onto the t-post.


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## Evons hubby (Oct 3, 2005)

I can only tell you what I would do. I would go get the cow asap, and then decide whether to take her to the vets... or the butcher shop. Once I give my word in a deal... I consider the deal done... makes no difference if lightning hits the herd ten minutes before or after I load them... I own the dead animals same as I do the live ones.


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## myersfarm (Dec 24, 2004)

Now I think I understand HE BLAMES YOUR HUSBAND FOR HURTING HIS COW and wants you to pay HIS vet bill and did not ask for your approval before hand...... since he is giving you another cow


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## 7thswan (Nov 18, 2008)

so if he(the cow owner) had gotten hurt at his sons place loading that cow-it would have been your Hubby's fault,because he was there loading "your" cow?


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## marytx (Dec 4, 2002)

You know, I've been thinking how he believes we owe the bill, even though he and his son caused the injury, and THEY took the heifer to the expensive vet, because it was OUR heifer.

BUT, you know, we never picked out any particular animals. We paid them for four yearling heifers and two yearling bulls. They chose which ones to load. Wouldn't you think it would go without saying that if you were purchasing animals you wanted the ones that were NOT injured?
:hammer:


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## gone-a-milkin (Mar 4, 2007)

A six hundred dollar vet bill for a 500 dollar animal? 
I cant get past that new development in this story. 
For goodness sake.

My sympathy on this whole mess. 
I suppose it is not the most expensive lesson to have to learn, but still.
What a disappointment.


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## marytx (Dec 4, 2002)

gone-a-milkin said:


> I suppose it is not the most expensive lesson to have to learn, but still.
> .


You're right. And it's not the only expensive lesson we have ever had to learn. I should just buck up. I'll keep reminding myself it is just that, an expensive lesson, because at some point I'm going to have to let this go. Today, though, I am steamed.


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## Allen W (Aug 2, 2008)

$500 for yearlings? Unless they are pure junk they should bring more then that at the sale barn. If he can't deliver you a healthy animal he owes you your money back and you don't owe him a thing but a spot on the list, you know that list for a special kind of people.


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## unregistered41671 (Dec 29, 2009)

mary said:


> You know, I've been thinking how he believes we owe the bill, even though he and his son caused the injury, and THEY took the heifer to the expensive vet, because it was OUR heifer.
> 
> BUT, you know, we never picked out any particular animals. We paid them for four yearling heifers and two yearling bulls. They chose which ones to load. Wouldn't you think it would go without saying that if you were purchasing animals you wanted the ones that were NOT injured?
> :hammer:


If you are doing the paying, you also need to do the choosing.


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## marytx (Dec 4, 2002)

Allen W said:


> $500 for yearlings? Unless they are pure junk they should bring more then that at the sale barn.


Well, as I said, they're only about half the size of my yearlings that I bottled last year. I really don't know that I could get my money back at auction. We had actually thought we could do that with the extra bull (now a steer) until we took a look at them.


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## haypoint (Oct 4, 2006)

I think that when you pay for something it is yours. From the time DH gave him the money until you came to load them, he couldn't sell them, because they were yours. If you had said you'd come and look at them and if you liked them, you'd buy them, he has every right to sell them ahead of you.
But you bought them. They were nice enough to board them for free and show up to help load. 

Old story: A farmer, who works in a factory, mentions to his factory friend that he's getting 50 chicks to raise for meat. The factory friend says, " Heck, I'll pay you for half the feed and the cost for 50 chicks, you can raise 50 of them for me. Just as easy to feed a hundred as 50." So the farmer agrees. A few weeks later, the factory friend asks about the chickens. Farmer replies, "Well, mine are doing good, but 10 of yours died."


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## gone-a-milkin (Mar 4, 2007)

It is just too bad that the one that hurt herself during loading was one of 'yours'.
That story of haypoint's pretty much describes the lesson perfectly.

Again, I think the whole deal was stinky from the start and that sounds like it was your DH and his friendship which clouded the business transaction.

Try to let it go though. 

Have the new cows settled down some for you yet?


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## myersfarm (Dec 24, 2004)

but in Haypoints story he forgot the farmer took the workers sick $5 chickens to the vet and the vet charged $8 to look at each one of them and now the farmer wants the worker to pay for vet bill...
and did not ask the worker about it before he took them...
..just presented him with the bill


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## Allen W (Aug 2, 2008)

mary said:


> Well, as I said, they're only about half the size of my yearlings that I bottled last year. I really don't know that I could get my money back at auction. We had actually thought we could do that with the extra bull (now a steer) until we took a look at them.


500 pounders are bringing close to $2 a pound here.


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## haypoint (Oct 4, 2006)

You go to a Yard Sale and see a nice pair of jeans. You know you want them, so you pay the guy for the jeans. You have other Yard Sales to go to, so you leave the jeans there with a SOLD sign on them. Later, you come back to get your jeans. You try them on and you rip the backside out of them. You say you didn't know the jeans were worn out. Yard Sale guy says it was your but that ripped the pants. You say you don't want those pants and he offers you a bigger pair. You really don't want any other jeans, but he's not offering you any refunds. So you accept the bigger pants. Then he asks you for $10 to get the jeans you ripped repaired. He sees you have a pair of pants that you paid for and you need to pay to repair the ones you ripped. He is doing you a favor as he could just give you your jeans that you ripped. You see that you have a pair of pants that you don't much want and are paying to repair a pair of pants that ripped through no fault of yours.


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## Allen W (Aug 2, 2008)

But they never tried the calf on.


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## gone-a-milkin (Mar 4, 2007)

The pants were ripped as they were put into the bag, before being handed to the buyer.


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## marytx (Dec 4, 2002)

The way I see it, they are the ones who injured the animal. I bargained for a healthy animal, not a damaged one. I did not damage the animal, they did.

If it was any other piece of property, if you damaged something that was mine, even though it was mine, you'd be liable for the damages. Am I not correct?


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## thequeensblessing (Mar 30, 2003)

haypoint said:


> You go to a Yard Sale and see a nice pair of jeans. You know you want them, so you pay the guy for the jeans. You have other Yard Sales to go to, so you leave the jeans there with a SOLD sign on them. Later, you come back to get your jeans. You try them on and you rip the backside out of them. You say you didn't know the jeans were worn out. Yard Sale guy says it was your but that ripped the pants. You say you don't want those pants and he offers you a bigger pair. You really don't want any other jeans, but he's not offering you any refunds. So you accept the bigger pants. Then he asks you for $10 to get the jeans you ripped repaired. He sees you have a pair of pants that you paid for and you need to pay to repair the ones you ripped. He is doing you a favor as he could just give you your jeans that you ripped. You see that you have a pair of pants that you don't much want and are paying to repair a pair of pants that ripped through no fault of yours.


It's actually more akin to going to said yard sale, handing the man $5 and say I want 5 pair of jeans, pick me out good ones please. Then you come back later and as they are being bagged up, one pair gets torn on the corner of the table. There are other jeans on the table that could have been substituted for the torn pair, but for some reason, are not. Then, the jeans are taken to a seamstress and mended and then you are presented with a bill for $1.50 for the jeans.


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## Allen W (Aug 2, 2008)

Mary

I don't know of any reputable breeder who would have expected you to take an injured animal or pay for injuries to an animal you hadn't taken possession of.


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## marytx (Dec 4, 2002)

Thanks, that means a lot to me, even though I think we are going to end up paying half on the vet bill. I told DH I'd give our friend a check, but in exchange he had to let me have my say! 

And, he's going to have to produce the itemized bill.

And, sadly, it's going to be hard to look at him the same way again.


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## Waiting Falcon (Nov 25, 2010)

If the gash cost $600 to repair will she be any good in the future? What all did she tear? 
Can she be bred? Carry a calf? If you have any plans at all of taking this animal- I would not! I would talk to the DVM that she was taken to and find out the extent of the damage.


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## myersfarm (Dec 24, 2004)

haypoint said:


> You go to a Yard Sale and see a nice pair of jeans. You know you want them, so you pay the guy for the jeans. You have other Yard Sales to go to, so you leave the jeans there with a SOLD sign on them. Later, you come back to get your jeans. You try them on and you rip the backside out of them. You say you didn't know the jeans were worn out. Yard Sale guy says it was your but that ripped the pants. You say you don't want those pants and he offers you a bigger pair. You really don't want any other jeans, but he's not offering you any refunds. So you accept the bigger pants. Then he asks you for $10 to get the jeans you ripped repaired. He sees you have a pair of pants that you paid for and you need to pay to repair the ones you ripped. He is doing you a favor as he could just give you your jeans that you ripped. You see that you have a pair of pants that you don't much want and are paying to repair a pair of pants that ripped through no fault of yours.



lets go with what you wrote but buyer did not rip jeans

at the next door neighbor yard sale you buy the jeans and hand him the money just as the seller was putting the jeans in a bag HE dropped them into a mud puddle and lays the muddy jeans on another tables says nothing and you leave not saying nothing ...next day he shows up at your door with different pair of jeans and a cleaning bill..

WILL YOU PAY THE BILL ?


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## marytx (Dec 4, 2002)

Waiting Falcon said:


> If the gash cost $600 to repair will she be any good in the future? What all did she tear?
> Can she be bred? Carry a calf? If you have any plans at all of taking this animal- I would not! I would talk to the DVM that she was taken to and find out the extent of the damage.


As I understand it, he intends to bring us a different animal, not this one. I'm not sure, but DH thinks the price is so high because they left the animal at the vet several days. I don't know why they would have done that. We are asking to see an itemized bill.


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## haypoint (Oct 4, 2006)

Allen W said:


> But they never tried the calf on.


The new owners were a part of the loading process, in both the cattle and the used jeans. Both were already purchased. Both the sellers claim the buyer was at least partly (perhaps fully) at fault.


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## G. Seddon (May 16, 2005)

Personally, I'd drop $100 to get a legal opinion on this whole thing. Wouldn't help with the friendship part, but sounds like that's about had it anyway.


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## bama-newsteader (Dec 2, 2011)

I am happy for the discussion on this subject because we did something similar a few months ago. We bought a bull from my sister's neighbor. Paid for him upfront and they were going to deliver him to my sisters (across the street) the next day. They delivered him, but apparently it was too close to his old home so he busted down the fence and went back. They kept him for us for a month so we could get our fences built and brought to our place 10 miles away. Thankfully he wasnt injured while in their care after we paid for him, and we were grateful that they were willing to keep him until we were ready - but based on this discussion we probably wont be doing that again.


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## unregistered41671 (Dec 29, 2009)

mary said:


> T I told DH I'd give our friend a check, but in exchange he had to let me have my say!
> 
> And, he's going to have to produce the itemized bill.
> 
> And, sadly, it's going to be hard to look at him the same way again.


Friend or no friend, tell it like you saw it.


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## InvalidID (Feb 18, 2011)

I'll tell you what I'd do. I'd tell him to keep his heifer and call it even. No more business will be conducted between you after. If he didn't like that, to bad as he's the one that sent it to the vet without talking to me first. $600 vet bill for a $500 cow? No dice, I'd have made hamburger first and cut my losses.


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## unregistered41671 (Dec 29, 2009)

InvalidID said:


> I'll tell you what I'd do. I'd tell him to keep his heifer and call it even. No more business will be conducted between you after. If he didn't like that, to bad as he's the one that sent it to the vet without talking to me first. $600 vet bill for a $500 cow? No dice, I'd have made hamburger first and cut my losses.


Yep, I like this. Good idea.


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## haypoint (Oct 4, 2006)

thequeensblessing said:


> It's actually more akin to going to said yard sale, handing the man $5 and say I want 5 pair of jeans, pick me out good ones please. Then you come back later and as they are being bagged up, one pair gets torn on the corner of the table. There are other jeans on the table that could have been substituted for the torn pair, but for some reason, are not. Then, the jeans are taken to a seamstress and mended and then you are presented with a bill for $1.50 for the jeans.


Yes it was a "sight unseen" sale, but a sale none the less. Perhaps from the sellers point of view the new owners had a greater part in the damage. If the new owners had loaded the cattle themselves and a calf stuck himself on a T post, who's calf is it? If the seller had been loading the calf, without the buyer around, and it stuck himself on a T post, it is the problem of the seller.
I think where it gets sticky is who's fault is it the calf jumped the wall? The seller thinks the new owner shouldn't have been there and spooked the calf. The new owner feels blameless because he was just standing there. 
Then, in an attempt to be nice, the seller offers to give you another calf and if the buyer will split the Vet costs, he'll take the risks involved with it healing properly. Rather than stick you with the Vet bill on YOUR calf and the trouble down the road if it fails to heal, he gives up an un-injured calf and offers to pay half theVet bill on an injury you caused. 

To some a sale is complete when the animal enters your trailer. To me the sale is complete when money changes hands.

No real solution here, just a learning session for all. Things can go sideways in a hurry. Always keep it simple and when possible, get it in writing.


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## haypoint (Oct 4, 2006)

I've gotten myself in all sorts of deals that can cause hard feelings. I have discovered that rationalization is a powerful human emotion. We can see why we are right, but not understand the viewpoint of others.
My son needed a bull, but his wife's car broke down, $2000 repair. My neighbor needed a bull, but not until next spring. I found a superior bull that a guy was sending to slaughter because he was keeping so many of his daughters. To help my son, I offered to haul the bull, 400 miles round trip, my son could use the bull for 6 weeks and then my neighbor would have the bull. The neighbor agreed to buy the bull, sight unseen and wait two months to receive the bull, if I'd haul his old bull to the Auction 120 miles away. It all went smoothly. But if the bull would have died, what then? If the bull wasn't able to breed any cows? My fault? All to help my son get his cows bred. All sorts of things can happen.
Later, I offered to buy my son 6 feeder pigs if i could get one raised and butchered. OK. But then a few weeks later the pigs got snotty noses and two died. I think they got cold, he thinks I bought sick pigs. He had buyers lined up to take them after butcher, so he was short on pigs. Then after raising the 4, discovered one had a nut and the meat had some boar taint. Guess who gets that pig? What's fair? The guy that sold the feeders offered to replace it with a free one, but there is the investment involved, plus my son doesn't want pigs from that guy ever again. How do you resolve it?

When I was new at farming, a neighbor had a beautiful clover field, 10 acres. I needed hay and asked about it. He said he'd bale it for me for $600. I asked how much hay it would make. He said he thought 3 tons to the acre. 30 tons for $600 was a sweet deal and I took it. But, I only got 9 tons. So, I mailed him a check for $300, well over what I expected to pay per ton. But he expected $600 because that is what we had agreed to. He hadn't promised any amount beyond 10 acres and I got 10 acres. All he got was the $300 and it spoiled a neighbor relationship. He had farmed his whole life and knew there wasn't 30 tons in that field. But I welched on the deal.


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## sidepasser (May 10, 2002)

mary said:


> Some of y'all might remember that my DH arranged to buy some Wagyu cattle from a friend. And as you might guess, when you buy from a friend, things never turn out exactly the way you expect.
> 
> First off, we expected to pick them up at the friend's farm about a half hour from here. Found out, just today, when we were ready to pick them up, that they were at the son's farm, an HOUR from here. Due to bad directions (and my husband is one who can find ANYTHING!) it took at an hour and a half to actually find the farm in the first place, and it was way after dark getting home.
> 
> ...


You have admitted the cattle are yours by reason of payment in advance (two weeks) for cattle you purchased sight unseen. You did not clarify with the friend or the son at the moment the accident happened, that the heifer was going to vet or be replaced.

Accidents happen with cattle, hogs, horses, and once you pay for an animal, the animal is yours. Regardless of whether you pick it up at the moment of payment or wait six months to pick it up, the animal is still yours. Unless the seller assumed responsibility for the delivery of the animals, the seller was helping you and your husband load *your cattle* into your trailer. One got injured during the process. 

By admitting in your post that you have paid for the cattle in advance and that these are your cattle, I am sure that you already know that these are your cattle. I am pretty sure that he real heart of the matter is the vet bill for your heifer and the subsequent return to pick said heifer up or to accept 1/2 the vet bill and a replacement heifer.

Is that not the heart of the matter seeing as you have already admitted these are your cattle?


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## nathan104 (Nov 16, 2007)

Since you had paid fr them in advance and asked them to board them for you until you picked them up, at that time they became yours. At that time, there was no "before they were loaded" con sideration. Those cows belonged to you and they were boarding them for you. Your cow got injured. I doubt they tried to injure the cow while helping you load your animals but it happened. Deal with it. You should have taken your animal and either taken it to the vet yourself, doctored it yourself, or hauled it to the slaughterhouse.


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## bruce2288 (Jul 10, 2009)

I have bought many bulls privately over the years. but from reputable breeders not a guy with 10-20 head of cows. The guy I have been buying from the last few years, I pick out a bull in Dec he delivers bulls in April. Anything happens to the bull in the meantime it will be replaced by him. This is standard practice with the breeders I know.
If I pulled into a breeders place that had a load out area that consisted of t=posts and a wire cattle panel I would turn around and leave. Poor facilities lead to injured animals and injured people. I would also assume if that is all the money they were willing to spend on a loadd out area they are probably not spending to buy quality foundation breeding stock.


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## ufo_chris (Apr 30, 2010)

nathan104 said:


> Since you had paid fr them in advance and asked them to board them for you until you picked them up, at that time they became yours. At that time, there was no "before they were loaded" con sideration. Those cows belonged to you and they were boarding them for you. Your cow got injured. I doubt they tried to injure the cow while helping you load your animals but it happened. Deal with it. You should have taken your animal and either taken it to the vet yourself, doctored it yourself, or hauled it to the slaughterhouse.


 I thought it was said that they paid for so many animals but not any particular ones , so it should have been ,so many (was it 4?) uninjured ones!


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## LittleRedHen (Apr 26, 2006)

When we have sold animals we tell them at such and such a point as we go to let them out of their pen/pasture that the animals are now theirs and if anything happens from that point forward that it is their problem but we will work together to get the animals into their trailer the best we can. But it is their animal when the money passes hands. If someone paid us ahead of time though it would be a little different. It was THEIR actions that caused the animal to leap and get injured so IMO they should cover the vet bill and you get the cow as you paid for it. YOu paid for a healthy animal and it should be given to you in the condition as you paid for it. If they have other ones for sale they should give you a different one and suck up the bill themselves. It is not your fault the animals were injured. 

I think part of the issue is the animals you received are not up to par with what you expected. If they were great top notch animals in great condition that your tune would be a little different. Instead you are terribly disappointed in even the healthy ones which is making it harder to even want anything to do with the vet bill on the 4th. If it was me i would NOT pay the Vet Bill but i'd tell them to deliver the heifer to me and if they don't they have failed on their end of the arrangement. MIght find you are no longer friends after this but if they valued your friendship they would be doing what they could to make things right with you and they do not appear to be doing so


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## unregistered41671 (Dec 29, 2009)

Possum Belly said:


> Hurt before your trailer....... their problem.
> Hurt after loaded on your trailer...... your problem. IMO





haypoint said:


> Yes it was a "sight unseen" sale, but a sale none the less. Perhaps from the sellers point of view the new owners had a greater part in the damage. If the new owners had loaded the cattle themselves and a calf stuck himself on a T post, who's calf is it? If the seller had been loading the calf, without the buyer around, and it stuck himself on a T post, it is the problem of the seller.
> I think where it gets sticky is who's fault is it the calf jumped the wall? The seller thinks the new owner shouldn't have been there and spooked the calf. The new owner feels blameless because he was just standing there.
> Then, in an attempt to be nice, the seller offers to give you another calf and if the buyer will split the Vet costs, he'll take the risks involved with it healing properly. Rather than stick you with the Vet bill on YOUR calf and the trouble down the road if it fails to heal, he gives up an un-injured calf and offers to pay half theVet bill on an injury you caused.
> 
> ...


I was wrong, look at my post above and disregard. I think Haypoint has the better answer and I agree with him. What.... can't I change my mind?:smack


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## SCRancher (Jan 11, 2011)

Hmm when I bought a bull it came with delivery (over 120 miles away) and a 1 year money back guarantee. If I didn't like the bull within that year I could return it and get my money back.

Bull got an abscess after a couple of months and it took $360 in vet bills to fix - I kept the bull but there for a while I was wondering if I did the right thing. I did - the bull has thrown some beautiful calves and has is very docile and cooperative.

My point however that from a very reputable place you get things like the money back guarantee.


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## PaulNKS (Jan 11, 2009)

Not to be disrespectful... but...

You made some mistakes.

First, never buy unseen. Second, never pay in full in advance.

We've been around cattle, ranches, etc all our lives. When you agree to buy the terms can vary a great deal from one seller to the next. To do this correctly, you should have gone and looked at the cattle and picked out the ones you wanted to buy, if you still wanted them.You should have put down a deposit and paid the remainder at the time you trailer the animals.

Ordinarily, the cattle belong to the seller until loaded. But, that is void when full payment is made in advance. At the time full payment is made, the animals are yours. It's your fault you didn't specify which animals. 

Also, you paid for healthy animals. They were healthy when money changed hands... It does NOT matter what happened during the first two weeks you owned the cattle, whether they stepped in a hole and broke a leg, or whether they were injured loading. They were already your property.

We have sold animals from time to time to hobby farmers that had to make installment payments. We are very clear upfront. When they make the first payment, THEY have picked out the animal. If they are making installments, the animal becomes their animal when they make that first payment. If anything happens to the animal before they take delivery, any resulting expenses are their responsibility. However, we do most of our own vet work. To us, the installment method is no different than full payment in advance.

If someone gives us a deposit, the animal is still ours until the remainder is paid and we are responsible for any bills associated. Then.... the in/out of the trailer rules apply.

Hobby farmers are sometimes a little uneducated on the way old farm/ranch families have always conducted business. They also sometimes seem not to use a lot of common sense. 

Common sense says NOT to buy something unseen... but if you must;
Common sense says NOT to pay in full for something you didn't look at. Common sense says not to treat a business arrangement with family or friend any differently than you would with a stranger. 

Before you make any more deals, please think it through and use a little common sense. If you have any doubts, either don't do it, or talk to others and get advice... 

Good luck.


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## SpaceCadet12364 (Apr 27, 2003)

To me, if the paying in advance specified specific animals (i.e. by registration number or tattoos) then it is more of the "that is your animal that we are boarding for free by agreement to hold onto them for a bit". If the purchase agreement was of the "purchase of x number of heifers/cows/bulls", then until the x number of animals are loaded on your trailer, they are the sellers. 

If I presold (and we have done this before) a specific animal, and while I was holding onto the animal as agreed something happened to it, then I would need to provide a replacement animal of similar quality/gender or refund your money. Once the animal gets on the trailer, and goes to your place, what happens to it is out of my control.

If I presold a healthy animal(s), and was holding them as agreed until pickup, if something would happen prior to pickup to the animal(s) that I had in mind that I was selling but they were not specifically identifiable, then I would need to replace the animal(s) and/or refund money accordingly. If I agree to sell you 5 healthy animals out of my 20 healthy animals, and something happens to some, I can't say oh well the ones you were buying died or were injured, tough luck. I would have to deliver the agreed upon number of animals, and if I couldn't I would need to pay you back some. 

On a similar vein, I can't sit there and tell you that a couple of yours got sick or injured and expect you to pay a vet bill, unless it had to do with the nature of a specific animal that was identified in the presale contract or agreement. To me, the situation with a non-specifically identified animal being injured during the loading process (with what sounds like a sub-adequate handling set-up) from my property to your property (a.k.a. your trailer), that would be on me to replace the injured by my negligence animal. For a specifically identified animal, injured by my negligence during loading, that should be an immediate option to let the buyer out of the deal for that animal or if an equivalent animal is available and buyer is amenable to a substitution. Either way, it would be my vet bill to pay....unless the buyer was somehow responsible in causing the injury to the animal.


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## marytx (Dec 4, 2002)

Okay, so we still don't have a final bill on the heifer that the sellers ran, with their own hands on it, up over the uncapped t-post. Seems the vet still has not released it from his care.:huh:

DH and I are thinking maybe it would be fair to tell him to keep the heifer and the bill, since he is the one who injured it, and the one who has left it in the care of the vet for going on two weeks now.

Our loss would be what we paid for an animal we didn't get. His loss would be the bill he is still running up on that animal.

What do y'all think? If we are willing to take the loss on not getting anything for our money, will that make it fair in his eyes? Looking particularly from those of you who think if we bought livestock together, the dead ones should be mine, since this seems to be the mindset we are dealing with.


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## farmgirl6 (May 20, 2011)

I have been reading this post, so many completely different but valid points. I have pre-ordered and paid for lumber at Lowes, went to pick it up, not liked a couple of the boards and had them swapped out. Also have had them drop a bag of cement loading, and just replace it, not exactly the same, but particularily if you "bought" them in advance to help them out, they were not boarding them as a favor to you but more so because they needed the money and you didn't have the space at the time which is kinda of what I am reading between the lines (maybe I am wrong) sounds like they should just give you a healthy cow...


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## marytx (Dec 4, 2002)

Obviously, that's what we thought, but not what they thought.:huh:


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## Cliff (Jun 30, 2007)

If I remember right you did not even ok the cow going to the vet?


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## marytx (Dec 4, 2002)

No, we didn't. We left assuming he'd just refund the money on that cow. Bad assumption.


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## bruce2288 (Jul 10, 2009)

I would not tell him to keep my money. I would expect a sound uninjured animal or my money back. That is me, others might feel different, you might feel different. To me telling him to keep the money and not supply an animal, says yes it was your fault or that you were in the wrong. I would guess your friendship has ended even if neither want that. I would guess that however this plays out one party is going to think that they were wronged.


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## Cliff (Jun 30, 2007)

Are they still offering to replace her with the other heifer? I would be curious to know where you would stand legally on this issue. Have any lawyer friends?

I understand what everyone has posted here but if the guy had done what I and many others here consider appropriate he would have addressed the issue immediately with you and offered your money back or a replacement cow. His foolishness caused the accident. But for myself, even if I hadn't caused the accident I would not expect you to take the injured cow or pay for her vet care. The vet part is just crazy. If she were injured that badly she should've just been put down. I can only imagine what the bill will be. Unfortunately it sounds like the guy just doesn't have much common sense.

There is a confrontation coming here for sure and you might want to get legal advice before going into it if you think the guy might try to sue you.

How are the other cows from the group doing?


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## marytx (Dec 4, 2002)

Besides evidently having mange, and being runts, they are fine. They are coming up to feed when I call them.

The "friend" had mentioned bringing us a different calf, which we had thought was his way of making good. But he never brought the calf and evidently now thinks we have wronged him by "sticking him with" the vet bill. DH and I are ready to cut our losses. We really do not want another of his animals. So we are about ready to let him just keep it, along with the bill he has run up. I'm afraid he will still not be happy. Neither will we. But the sooner this is resolved one way or the other, the better.

Believe me, we will not be "admitting we were wrong." This deal will come with a piece of my mind. He's already gotten a bit of my husband's.


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## ufo_chris (Apr 30, 2010)

bruce2288 said:


> I would not tell him to keep my money. I would expect a sound uninjured animal or my money back. That is me, others might feel different, you might feel different. To me telling him to keep the money and not supply an animal, says yes it was your fault or that you were in the wrong. I would guess your friendship has ended even if neither want that. I would guess that however this plays out one party is going to think that they were wronged.


I agree and with friends like that who needs enemies!?


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## gone-a-milkin (Mar 4, 2007)

The heifer is STILL at the vets?!!!

Unbelievable. 

What do you mean the new cows have mange?
Maybe they just have mites?

I am sorry to hear that this is still going on. 


I guess it does provide a good lesson to everyone here who reads the story. 
I am just sorry the whole thing happened.

The Wagyu Drama, 2012! 

Hang in there.


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## InvalidID (Feb 18, 2011)

Like I said on page two of this thread, I'd tell him to keep the heifer and my money and call it even. 3 weeks at the vet? I don't think I've ever seen a cow worth that much to me. This fella must be pretty darned proud of this heifer to put that kind of money into it. Of course he thinks it's your money so maybe he just doesn't care.

As far as I can tell, it's worth about as much as any other slaughter animal. Less maybe being it's not a common type, small frame, and injured. 

Call it a business lesson that cost you 500 bucks. You learned several things here. 

1. Settle immediately. If something happens to an animal on load out (or even before) settle up NOW. 

2. This isn't a person you want to do business with again. Not because you guys have a disagreement so much as he's willing to send a cow to the vet for 3 weeks on what he thinks is your dime.

3. Settle up immediately. This one bares repeating. If something goes wrong, or the situation changes settle up. At the very least decide on a course of action, in detail, before you leave.


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## marytx (Dec 4, 2002)

gone-a-milkin said:


> What do you mean the new cows have mange?
> Maybe they just have mites?


I am guessing it is mange, I don't really know what it is. But they have small patches of gray skin showing. One heifer has it all around one eye, and several of them have smaller patches mostly near the tops of their legs.

When we brought them home, we put them in with my two heifers, and mine have not shown any signs of this. I moved mine to a different field over the weekend. I checked them this morning and they still look good.

I took a couple of pictures of it the other day. I'll post them later when I can get DD to put them on the computer for me. Maybe it will be more obvious to someone else what it is.


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## ArmyDoc (May 13, 2007)

thequeensblessing said:


> ... Whatever happened to a gentlemen's agreement? Lesson learned, and an expensive one. We consider ourselves lucky we got 900.00 from them!
> Hopefully, your hubbys friend is more honest than ours was.


I recommend a bill of sale, even amongst friends. Tell them it's for tax purposes, most people accept that. (And you should have a bill of sale for tax purposes and proof of ownership anyhow.)

I write on the bill of sale receipts as I give or get them. For example, when I picked up my tractor, it took two trips because not all implements would fit on the tractor. I put on the bill of sale, the deposit paid, and remainder due at pick-up of remaining items. Last thing on the bill of sale should be "paid in full"


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## 7thswan (Nov 18, 2008)

3 weeks at the vet? I'm having a hard time beliveing the animal is at the vet. Arround here, a vet is rarley called out for a cow,most farmers do their own work because there are so few vets that do cows. Most farmers would never spend that kind of $ on a cow. A wounded cow like that would get a emergency appointment for the butcher-we've had to do it because a bull of ours "snapped". 3 weeks at a vet would be in the thousands.


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## marytx (Dec 4, 2002)

This is the same friend who lost a cow last year because he wouldn't call the vet when she went down just before calving. His wife asked me about her after she'd already been down a few days. So, yes, I am also very baffled about what is going on.


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## wr (Aug 10, 2003)

From a breeder's standpoint, reputation is everything and it takes thousands of dollars in PR to get rid of the stink of one bad sale so I would have offered a buyer a replacement on the spot.


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## haypoint (Oct 4, 2006)

You bought cows sight unseen, they became yours at that second. If he would have sold them to another person, he&#8217;d be a crook, they belong to you. A week or so later, while loading your cattle, one of your cows got injured, requiring $600 of Vet work. The farmer offered to buy back the injured cow and give you an uninjured cow, plus pay half of the Vet bill for your cow. It was your cow at the time of the accident.

For those that feel the farmer should "eat" the $600 Vet bill on your cow, I need to ask where does the farmer's responsibility end? I think it ends when you paid for them and they became yours. Others believe the farmer must warranty them until they get on your trailer. Perhaps others feel the farmer should provide a 30 day warranty? Perhaps a lifetime guarantee?
I&#8217;ve seen newbies around cattle. Just talking and/or moving your arms around will spook most cattle. Never stand where they have to move towards a stranger. If you don&#8217;t have much cattle moving experience, you won&#8217;t see how your actions could have caused the cow to jump the crappy makeshift loading barrier. Look at this as the farmer sees it: Your husband spooked his own cow and it needed medical attention. You communicated poorly by not writing out a receipt when the cows were bought. He communicated poorly by getting your cow medical attention without a medical permission slip.


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## matt_man (Feb 11, 2006)

mary said:


> I am guessing it is mange, I don't really know what it is. But they have small patches of gray skin showing. One heifer has it all around one eye, and several of them have smaller patches mostly near the tops of their legs.
> 
> When we brought them home, we put them in with my two heifers, and mine have not shown any signs of this. I moved mine to a different field over the weekend. I checked them this morning and they still look good.
> 
> I took a couple of pictures of it the other day. I'll post them later when I can get DD to put them on the computer for me. Maybe it will be more obvious to someone else what it is.


Sounds like ringworm. It will clear up on it's own.


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## Dreamfarm (Dec 10, 2011)

mary said:


> This is the same friend who lost a cow last year because he wouldn't call the vet when she went down just before calving. His wife asked me about her after she'd already been down a few days. So, yes, I am also very baffled about what is going on.


This should have been a clue. Sorry you had to go through this.


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## ufo_chris (Apr 30, 2010)

haypoint said:


> You bought cows sight unseen, they became yours at that second. If he would have sold them to another person, heâd be a crook, they belong to you. A week or so later, while loading your cattle, one of your cows got injured, requiring $600 of Vet work. The farmer offered to buy back the injured cow and give you an uninjured cow, plus pay half of the Vet bill for your cow. It was your cow at the time of the accident.
> 
> For those that feel the farmer should "eat" the $600 Vet bill on your cow, I need to ask where does the farmer's responsibility end? I think it ends when you paid for them and they became yours. Others believe the farmer must warranty them until they get on your trailer. Perhaps others feel the farmer should provide a 30 day warranty? Perhaps a lifetime guarantee?
> Iâve seen newbies around cattle. Just talking and/or moving your arms around will spook most cattle. Never stand where they have to move towards a stranger. If you donât have much cattle moving experience, you wonât see how your actions could have caused the cow to jump the crappy makeshift loading barrier. Look at this as the farmer sees it: Your husband spooked his own cow and it needed medical attention. You communicated poorly by not writing out a receipt when the cows were bought. He communicated poorly by getting your cow medical attention without a medical permission slip.


NO NO NO,they did not pay for any specific animals just 4 or 6 out of many, so the 4 or 6 or whatever should have been uninjured animals!


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## whodunit (Mar 29, 2004)

What nobody has mentioned is the spiritual argument. If you are a Christian (you mentioned "church"), then you might consider just paying what he wants and move on. That way you can be sure you acted as an ambassador of Christ and allow the Holy Spirit to work on him and his problem. Then never do business with him again. We are to forgive but we are not God and normally cannot forget and there is nothing that says you have to allow him the opportunity to take advantage of you again.

I did this with a non-Christian mechanic who did sub-par work and lead me to believe I needed a new engine (something like $3500) when the problem was a broken valve spring ($150 fix). I paid what I owed for his services even though I felt I should pay nothing because I did not want to give him any opportunity to badmouth me and my God. of course, then I told everyone I could of my experience, so they could avoid bad work, too. So he got my $300 (or whatever it was) and he lost far more than that in future work for any of my friends.


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## marytx (Dec 4, 2002)

Just an aside, looking back at the pictures I took the morning after we brought them home, a closer look reveals the ringworm already started around the eye of the one that has it the worst. So on top of everything else, yes, they came with the ringworm. At least they haven't (yet) given it to my other animals.


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## nathan104 (Nov 16, 2007)

Heres a lesson. When you bring new livestock onto your place, QUARANTINE THEM from your other animals for a period of at least a week, preferably two. You never know what types of thing you could be spreading to your animals. Do not just bring something home and throw it in with the rest of your animals or you could spread something you cant get rid of and something that could possibly kill your animals.


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## wr (Aug 10, 2003)

haypoint, I would agree with you if the buyer had paid for specific animals but since they had only paid for a specific number, the injured animal should not have been included. 

I will agree that a stranger in the loading area can cause problems but I solve that by handing the buyer a cup of coffee and telling them that loading was just one of those little services I provide so they could sit back, relax and watch how we handle the cattle so they'll have some idea of what to expect when they get them home.


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## marytx (Dec 4, 2002)

My husband has managed a whole lot more cattle than this guy ever will. He was standing off to the side of the trailer, not at all in the way. The two sellers had their hands on that animal running it up the uncapped t-post. If they had backed off when the animal didn't cooperate, she would not have been hurt. I'm not giving haypoint or our sellers any credit at all on this count. It only serves to give me an idea what kind of seller he is. We will NEVER pay in advance again for ANYTHING. We'd thought we were doing him a favor, and this is what we've gotten for it.


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## DroppedAtBirth (Sep 23, 2010)

So my two cents, and by no means an experienced two cents...

He should have KNOWN better than to try to keep hands on any kind of large animal! I have a hand raised heifer who will let me scratch all over her and follows me around like a puppy and if pushed too hard to go somewhere she doesn't want to go, she will attempt through a fence too (and I'm pretty sure that being eaten by a big scary trailer monster would do the trick of convincing her she doesn't want to go "that" way mom!). Oh, and I have a scar on my leg from attempting to hold on to a yearling llama when it got it in it's head to run and took me up over the t-post :ashamed: I was sooooo embarrassed by my own stupidity that I tried to downplay the ouch as much as possible (couldn't hide the scrape marks fast enough to not have the new owner notice). I wouldn't have dreamed of blaming her for something I decided to do :ashamed:

If you walk away without a replacement animal that is the equivalent of $500 toward that $600 vet bill so if he doesn't consider that fair, that's even more that he should be ashamed of. HE was loading, HE pushed her too hard, HE decided to take a $500 animal to the vet for a $600, so in my mind HE should be responsible just like I would feel he was responsible if he walked on to MY property and pushed MY animal too hard.


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## wr (Aug 10, 2003)

mary,tx, I'm not sure if you were responding to me or haypoint but in either case, I have always made a point of loading a buyer's animal for a a reason. I've found that animals can be funny if there is a stranger in the mix, if a person is injured while loading, I can be sued, it gives me the chance to show the buyer how my animals are handled and what to expect if they handle them the same way and more importantly, I want that buyer to have the best possible experience because you can't beat word of mouth advertising.


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## emdeengee (Apr 20, 2010)

You paid for the cattle two weeks before you picked them up. Your friend was holding your cattle - as a favour to you. Your friends were loading the cattle with you there. Unfortunately the cow is yours as is the vet bill.

As for not choosing your own cattle. I don't understand why you would just buy sight unseen. Agreeing to this means you got what was chosen for you and you accepted the cow that was injured before it was injured (they were loading it). Too late to change your mind only after it was injured.


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## marytx (Dec 4, 2002)

And it wouldn't matter to you, I suppose, if you were the one who injured the animal, and the one who decided to leave it at the vets for a couple of weeks. I'm sorry, this has been on my nerves for awhile now. I know that if the shoe had been on the other foot, I would have apologized and given the money back on the spot. So learning that that is NOT the way other people think has been truly an unpleasant learning experience for me.

I understand that we shouldn't have trusted this man to begin with. As those of you know who have followed this saga from the beginning, I never wanted these cattle. DH did. He's very, very sorry now that he did. He had heard good things from a mutual friend. There are going to be hard feelings all around on this. Very hard feelings all around. I'm only hoping that this man's wife and I will be able, somehow, to remain friends, but I'm not sure.

We will be making church visits together on Friday, and I'm hoping that we can just not bring this up. Because if we do, I'm sure I'll say things I'll regret.

To those of you who told me tough beans, well, it just goes to show that you are also people I would never, ever want to do business with.


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## Allen W (Aug 2, 2008)

Mary

Your learning, unfortunately sometimes tuition is expensive.


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## gone-a-milkin (Mar 4, 2007)

This is one of the most torturous threads I have ever read in the cattle forum.
Maybe we should take up a collection to spring that heifer from the vets? :angel:


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## Cliff (Jun 30, 2007)

gone-a-milkin said:


> This is one of the most torturous threads I have ever read in the cattle forum.
> Maybe we should take up a collection to spring that heifer from the vets? :angel:


No way, the moron who took her there should pay 

Lets see... 500 dollar cow, impaled herself on a t-post... what person with any sense would take her to the vet??? He deserves what he gets. An expensive lesson. He also was not honorable about the whole injury thing. Again, karma.


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