# What would you do?



## Fowler (Jul 8, 2008)

I will need to get my boys neutered soon, it's hot...I mean really hot.
I dont want them outside after an operation in this heat with stitches and not feeling up to snuff if I dont have too. I dont want infections...I want them to come through this smoothly. But if I do have to keep them outside...please tell me what I need to do to make them comfortable and infection free.

What are some of y'alls suggestions?

What do you do when you get your LGD's fixed?


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## Wolf Flower (Dec 21, 2005)

Ask if your vet can do internal skin sutures. I forget what the technique is called, but basically, it rolls a little bit of skin underneath the incision line, so the wound is closed more tightly, and the sutures are underneath and kind of on either side of the wound. Hard to explain, but your vet will probably figure out what you're talking about. 

That, and a good shot of antibiotics just to safeguard against infection, should have your boys up and about in no time. I'd close them in the barn for the first 24 hours or so after surgery. They'll still be groggy from the anesthetic anyway. After that, they'll probably be acting like nothing happened.


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## Cheryl aka JM (Aug 7, 2007)

My vet does livestock as well as pets. When he fixed Tater he knew he was an LGD so he suggested he keep him at the office overnight the first night (at no additional charge~ I have a very nice vet) and said the next day Tater was fine out in the pasture. He was fine. He was REALLY FREAKED when I came to pick him up~ but he was just fine when I let him out into the pasture~ never even acted like there was anything wrong just like he was so grateful to be home with his goats!

If your vet is not so nice as to offer a free overnight~ well could you lock them in a garage or a horse trailer overnight the first night?


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## FoxyWench (Jan 22, 2010)

how about surgical glue rather than sutures? one of our girls had glue after a c-section/spay puppies nursed no problems she healed up beautifully and doesnt even have a scar! and unlike stiches she never bothered with the insicion once...


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## Maura (Jun 6, 2004)

Neutering a male is less invasive than spaying a female. I've never had a dog have any problems. But, the turned in hem sutures are appealing. Just keep the dog in a confined area where he'll have good shade.


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## Fowler (Jul 8, 2008)

Thanks everyone for your input, normally I try to take my pets to get spayed or neutered to a low cost vet. But the last time I did, my adopted kitty got an infection.

So I will be paying full price and taking my boys to my sheep vet which also knows my dogs.
I will tell them about the turned in sutures, and then I am sure they will tell me ...well duh!!...LOL...just when I think I have learned something knew my vets always out does me...I am glad I have smart country vets...I have no idea how I would raise sheep without them.


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## mekasmom (Jan 19, 2010)

Fowler said:


> I will need to get my boys neutered soon, it's hot...I mean really hot.
> 
> 
> What do you do when you get your LGD's fixed?


I don't get the males altered ever. There's too many possible consequences from that. I do have the females spayed at 15mo+ because it is just easier than dealing with litters of a dozen puppies.

Did your dogs grow up together from puppyhood? If so, they should get along even if they aren't altered. Why do you feel they need to be altered? Altering giant breeds, or any dog really, does come with its own set of issues, especially bone issues and risks of bone cancers.
[ame]http://www.google.com/search?q=neutering+and+bone+cancer+risk+in+dogs&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-USfficial&client=firefox-a[/ame]


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## Wolf Flower (Dec 21, 2005)

mekasmom said:


> Did your dogs grow up together from puppyhood? If so, they should get along even if they aren't altered.


Not necessarily true. Some of the worst fights are between same-sex littermates.


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## Fowler (Jul 8, 2008)

My 2 main reasons are because I dont want a female coyote distracting them or any female in heat for that matter. second I completely believe in being a responsible parent for my pets and pet LGD's.

And yes they are brothers....I so far (knock on wood) my boys still eat out of the same bowl, never growl at the sheep when they approach their food bowl.

I honestly believe they should be fixed, I need them to gaurd not be swayed to wonder off 

any thoughts on this?


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## Goatress (Feb 4, 2011)

I have never had any male lured away (yet) and all mine are intact. I have 8 intact males from ages 15 weeks up to mature. Fence fights yes mostly between two brothers. When female is in heat I sequester her away and do not let males even outside of building, it has fenced perimeter. Otherwise, fights which is understandable. Food issue fights occasionally and I try to let them work it out on their own and only intervene if it gets serious. There are other drawbacks to neutering males, it can take away their zeal and kill some of their guarding incentive. Growth issues as well, if done too soon, can impact growth, I have read. If you have tight fences, what would be chance of your male escaping anyway, if a ***** in heat came through? Well, here too is argument for running males AND females, if your males were distracted by a ***** in heat your female would not be and she'd probably try to kill the intruder. Just a thought..... :~)


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## westbrook (May 10, 2002)

If you have a barn or shed or garage... or a fenced area...

put the dogs in a small pen with goats or goats next to them. Or what ever they are used to being with.

Place straw on the ground several inches thick. This provides a clean environment for them. They will have the Elizabethan collar on. so they will need space for them to move around . They will try to stick their heads through any hog panels.. so that has to be fixed. 

With those collars on they are like a bull in a china shop.


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## mekasmom (Jan 19, 2010)

Goatress said:


> There are other drawbacks to neutering males, it can take away their zeal and kill some of their guarding incentive. Growth issues as well, if done too soon, can impact growth, I have read.


Altering does cool off natural drive. That's why police dogs are not neutered.


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## Wolf Flower (Dec 21, 2005)

Goatress said:


> There are other drawbacks to neutering males, it can take away their zeal and kill some of their guarding incentive.


Schutzhund trainers say the same thing, but I am not sure if I believe them. To me, guarding instinct and defensive drive has little to do with sex. Testosterone can fuel aggression, but I don't think it makes them more protective. On the contrary, I think intact males are more distractable should they smell a female in heat somewhere... possibly miles away... and they're more inclined to roam, and fight with other males they run with.

And two intact brothers running together? Recipe for disaster, IMO. I see it all the time. Even when neutered, same-sex littermates tend to be quarrelsome, especially if both tend to be on the dominant side.

I'm an advocate of spay/neuter, I just feel it's the responsible thing to do if you don't intend to breed. Ever wonder where all those border collie/pyr crosses come from? 

My Akbash was neutered at 2 years of age, a year before we got him. His former owner said nothing about him changed after neutering, except that he stopped lifting his leg on absolutely everything. I don't know about that--I still see him marking everywhere.


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## Wolf Flower (Dec 21, 2005)

mekasmom said:


> Altering does cool off natural drive. That's why police dogs are not neutered.


Actually, in some departments, they are. It has been shown that neutering increases lifespan.


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## HappyFarmer (Jun 17, 2006)

When spaying or neutering we explain to the vet we want preventative antibiotic. We normally do not go this route unless infection is present, but if they are going right back in the pasture (most of the time-we do it in the spring or fall) we feel it helps ward off infection.

The one timre we've segregated after the procedure, it was because it was too cold or too hot. They can't regulate body temps for 24 hours....

If they are Pyrenees be sure to remind your vet to sedate only for effect-make sure they get weighed. Pyrs are sensitive to anesthesia.

HF


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## mekasmom (Jan 19, 2010)

HappyFarmer said:


> Pyrs are sensitive to anesthesia.
> 
> HF


I didn't know that. I helped at the vet's office for a while, and had never heard it back then.


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## HappyFarmer (Jun 17, 2006)

That's why the vets need to be reminded, they can't remember everything and if they fail to look up the breed, well, you may lose your dog. I tell them, then wait to make sure it is written on their paperwork. 

Seems kinda ironic, I'm not willing to lose one peacefully to anesthesia but I'm okay with them taking on any of those large predators & die painfully. Hmmmmm, I guess the difference is it was their choice. 

HF


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## longshadowfarms (Nov 27, 2002)

HappyFarmer said:


> If they are Pyrenees be sure to remind your vet to sedate only for effect-make sure they get weighed. Pyrs are sensitive to anesthesia.
> 
> HF


A friend who bred Pyrs also said the same thing. I think there is a vet on these forums that goes by the name Pyrenees that might be able to answer that question. Ask on the pet forum.


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## Fowler (Jul 8, 2008)

HappyFarmer said:


> When spaying or neutering we explain to the vet we want preventative antibiotic. We normally do not go this route unless infection is present, but if they are going right back in the pasture (most of the time-we do it in the spring or fall) we feel it helps ward off infection.
> 
> The one timre we've segregated after the procedure, it was because it was too cold or too hot. They can't regulate body temps for 24 hours....
> 
> ...


I have Maremma's...does anesthesia effect them like this too?
Barefootfarm?, do you know anything about this?


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## Our Little Farm (Apr 26, 2010)

Goatress said:


> There are other drawbacks to neutering males, it can take away their zeal and kill some of their guarding incentive. Growth issues as well, if done too soon, can impact growth, I have read. :~)


I won't tell my massive LGD this. He was fixed young and definitely has the zeal and guarding instinct still! 

My vet kept him overnight and then he went straight out to the pasture. No problems at all. Probably swam in the pond too.


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## HappyFarmer (Jun 17, 2006)

I did a google on Maremma's, from a quick search it looks like they are also sensitive to anesthesia, though it wasn't an "official" website I found. 
Makes sense, if I'm not mistaken the gene pools aren't too far removed from the Pyrenees. 

HF


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## ONG2 (Sep 22, 2010)

Wolf Flower said:


> Actually, in some departments, they are. It has been shown that neutering increases lifespan.


Our Doberman Leonidas is at the vet as we speak getting nurtured. Years ago we left a male intact, thinking that we were doing him a favor. He died at 7 years of cancer. Many have attributed the fact that he was intact to his cancer. 

We waited until Leonidas was 2 years old so that he would have plenty of testosterone as he was growing but now the deed is done. I'll let you know if we see any personality changes. Certainly hope not.


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