# Tell me everything you know about Geothermal



## dehendrick (Aug 7, 2014)

I think I want to have a geothermal set up installed in my home. I have 2.3 acres and a 1700 sq/ft house currently heated with propane in southern Michigan. It's a big investment and I'd like to hear from others about their experience with it. Cost, maintenance, pros/cons, things to consider and questions to ask installers. Thank you so much! Also I'd take recommendations from anyone in my area.


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## Dstrnad (Aug 9, 2014)

I am an HVAC service tech and install these. In fact I just finished an open loop climate master today. My advise is to look over the numbers very carefully and do not get caught up in the romance or neatness of it. Here in Michigan our run times are a lot longer than what they consider average. Most units will have 10,000 hours by year 8-10. Look your contractor in the eye and ask him how many years it will last before needing a compressor or other major repair. If he looks off to the side and says the average life is 20ish years kick him in the @[email protected]^ and keep looking. We have units that have lasted 20+ years. I have also removed quite a few that were 10-12 years old. Basically if you have a major failure such as a compressor, or even just a txv which requires repair to the refrigeration side you might as well save yourself and the contractor the hassle and just change out the unit right then. We have not had good luck making major repairs on these units. In theory it should be no big deal just follow your basic refrigeration repair techniques. However it seems that once you open them up its nothing but trouble from there on out. GEO can be a good investment but keep a couple things in mind. Repair bills are high $2000-$3000 for compressor change out, not all HVAC techs should touch them so know who is going to be servicing it, they are not free to run, it still use electricity so elec bill will go up, in order to get the federal tax credit you have to actual still owe that amount in federal income tax after all other deductions, credits, etc. this is not just how much they took out of your pay for all taxes. If you can make the numbers work out with a 10 year life I would say go for it, if you get 20+ great. I really like the Climate master and would not even consider any others after installing several other brands.

Dave


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## RoseW (Apr 19, 2015)

Butting in....

Ebay the books - you'll learn a lot, get ideas. Any thing you decide, get at least 3 quotes. Far as systems, if they are name brand whatevers that might, far-fetched, appear on Amazon, look for the reviews.

Consider the materials & warranty, both from the manufacturer & installer. You don't want a crazy shipping return fee, nor only a warranty that is going to cover only the cost of materials if a room is ruined.

Google for any BBB reviews on the company you think you might want to contract with. Get a firm date on everything on when they're going to be finished (including materials), so you don't get strung along.

If you've done all the homework - slaps on the back! I need all the assistance I can get - hope you are like-minded. (Hides under muh rock, now.)


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## meganannunziata (Apr 21, 2015)

We have one now but its a closed loop system, and it isn't the best. We have super expensive heat bills, because the supplement heat is electric. We haven't had the best luck with ours, at all! A couple years ago when we had the power outages, it was incredibly hard for our system to catch up basically, and we had $500 plus a month heat bills. The person who came out and fixed it, said you shouldn't let it run below 60 degrees I guess, in the wintertime, because sometimes the coils freeze up, if it gets REALLY cold. But to fix that we just turned on the air for a little bit to unfreeze it. An open loop system is definitely the way to go, I think, with geo thermal!!! Other than that problem, we haven't had big problems with it...knock on wood, we are definitely however looking to do an open system instead!


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## kuther (Feb 18, 2015)

We have a geothermal unit and we love it. Ours is a 3-ton , 2 stage Water Furnace with directional bored closed loop. Our house is only 1544 sq ft and we live in south west Ohio. In the 3 years we have had it we have never had a problem with it. The electric supplemental heat has only kicked on twice in the 3 years. The highest total electric bill we have had since its installation has been 220.00 dollars.


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## jlkunka (Apr 24, 2015)

We have a 3000 sq-ft 1850's farmhouse in Virginia. Had a 3-ton unit installed in the attic with new ductwork servicing the upstairs about 25 years ago. It was open loop and we dealt with occasional water supply issues. Last year we renovated the downstairs and installed another 3-ton system in the crawlspace and a horizontal closed loop with 6-ton capacity to serve both units. Much happier with the closed loop. Both units make 80% of our hot water with a Rinnai tankless heater topping it off.

Here are my recommendations: Consider geothermal if you are staying in your house forever. Our new system (with ductwork, large loop, tie-in to the old system, etc.) was $37,000. It's tough to pay that back, and impossible if you move 10 years down the road. Look hard at Mitsubishi or similar mini-split systems. They are far cheaper to install and performance in northern climates has improved dramatically recently. Their chief advantage is the lack of ductwork. Lots of energy is lost in conventional ductwork running in unoccupied areas like attics and basements. The efficiency approaches geothermal in a good system.

The reasons we didn't consider it for our home were the existing system upstairs, and the looks of the wall units which are inappropriate for a vintage farmhouse.

Good luck with your choice. Either way, spend money on insulation and air-tightness which will help either system!


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## Txrider (Jun 25, 2010)

I have a closed loop 3.5 ton geo unit. I bought it myself, installed it myself three years back.

I have 11 acres so I buried 2000 feet of 3/4" poly in great big loops out through the pasture using a very large drive on diesel ditch witch type machine. That is "just enough" loop and I may add another 600ft of loop in the future. More loop is always better, and I think an extra 50% or even double what the folks selling them tell you you'll need is a good idea.

Total cost for me was between 6-7 thousand, and I took the federal tax credits which brought it down even lower. I love doing things myself to save big bucks.

I do have some long run times when it hits 105 outside in the summer for a couple of months, and long run times in January/February but I have no electric aux heat strips in the unit and it has kept up well enough.

It all depends on your situation. I bought an old farm house and had it moved to my property as I had to have a house immediately. 

It had no central AC but did have a central propane furnace, very expensive to run. Almost no wall insulation, attic insulation and zero insulation under the floor and this is a 2000sq ft house on beams with a 24" crawl space underneath.

My ducts were well made insulated steel ducts so I just kept them, tossed the propane furnace and installed the geo heat pump. Took me a weekend with a little help from a couple of friends.

The big thing for me is that it is always better to improve the houses insulation and tighten the house up before doing anything else. I really didn't have that choice, and I am still working on closing this drafty old house up which should make my system run significantly less.

I do think an open loop system would be more efficient for me in those few scorching/frosty months though. I would think especially so up north where it really gets cold.

So I have no regrets, I had to buy some type of system, and the closed loop system is self contained and very easy to install for a DIY type. There is no refrigerant or soldering or anything like that involved in the installation, no outside unit for copper thieves to steal. 

If you can wire it up and plumb in the water piping and dig a trench you can install one. I could even just use my existing water well and go open loop, but the well water here would drastically shorten the life of the heat exchanger with build up and corrosion, that's why I went closed loop.


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## danarutan (Mar 13, 2011)

My husband builds high energy efficient homes and installs Geo's he in Indiana -- he has actually put one iin in southern MI for a family member. I pm you with his number he can give you a ton of info.


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