# Thin/Bony goats



## ozark_jewels (Oct 7, 2005)

I didn't want to hijack the other thread. I get aggravated when people talk about reporting something without being sure of the facts. It can make a lot of trouble for no reason. This is why:

These does are hard-working girls. They all had at least twins, most had triplets, this past kidding season and have been milking their hearts out since. They will not hardly put weight on till their production falls back in the heat of the summer or when I dry them off. The point is, their nutritional and mineral needs are all being met, they have hay/browse and grain. And they still look bony. Thats ok, they also look heathy.
Point is, if someone sent these pictures to a meat goat or pygmy breeder, they might be horrified at the bones showing on some of my gals. And unless they came and saw my *entire* herd for themselves and talked to me, they might think I was abusing my girls. Now, when they get all the facts, they can rest at ease, and I don't have the authorities causing me trouble. 
There are fat goats, thin goats, starving goats and healthy goats out there And believe it or not, a slightly thin goat is healthier than a fat goat.
All I'm trying to say is please be sure of your facts before reporting someone. And the neighborly thing to do would be to go talk to the neighbor first and see if they need help. Maybe they just don't see the problem. I knew an elderly man who was starving his goats to death and simply couldn't see it. When I offered to help him and pointed out some problems, he was all ears and I actually ended up with his goats and eventually sold them for him.
YES, there are animal abusers out there.....just be sure you have one before reporting.









She has been eating cedar bark, thus the black "lipstick".  





































And dairy cows are the same way, you see a fat one with no bones showing, its not putting much in the pail. These girls are milking well and look fine. But compared to beef cows they look bony. They are supposed too!



















I hope no one takes this wrong, its just a sore spot with me. I think the authorities should be the last resort after you are sure of the facts, have talked to the owners and have offered your help/advice.


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## BlueHeronFarm (Feb 9, 2007)

Thanks, Emily -- you saved me the task of photographing my gals this afternoon.
I whole-heartedly agree with your post and if I may speak for my piggy, yet bony girls, I think they do, too.


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## Idahoe (Feb 4, 2006)

MOST of my girls are bony like that, and yup, my lowest producer doesn't have a single bone showing anywhere.

It was a little alarming for me being a new goat owner (one year), until I was told this is a good sign. As long as their coats are sleek, eyes bright, etc.


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## CountryDreams (Oct 10, 2005)

Thanks for posting those pics Emily. Like BlueHeronFarm, you saved me from having to go take pics of my girls. LOL

When I first got my goats, I started off with dairy goats, Alpines. I was always afraid that I wasn't feeding them enough. They always wanted food. Then I was told by a "expert" goat lady that goats will eat and eat and will always act hungry. She also told me about the dairy goats looking more bony than other breeds. So, that put my mind at ease. 

I think if people would get more education about the different breeds, they wouldn't be so quick to jump the gun on calling the authorities about neglect.


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## SHELBY (Mar 9, 2003)

Emily,

I totally agree with you. Just driving by a place and seeing an animal in a field, does not give the full story about what is going on.

We were reported 2 times to the humane society, about 2 horses and then a year One of the horses was out of shape, (cousins horse, we were boarding here and the mare was 23 years old, arthritis in both front legs and cousin didn't do anything with here anymore because of it.) the other horse, I will admit he was thin, BUT we had only had him for about 4 months AND when we got him he was way worse then he was that day. Took us a good 3 months of worming, lice powder and lots of food to get him to start putting on weight. 
When they came out and looked at everybody, they said the one was thin, but DH told them what he was being fed and also about how he looked when we got him and told them to call the vet if they wanted to verify it. They left.

The second time we were reported, DD bought a pony, that we were told was late 20's early 30's, so when we went to look at her, we just couldn't leave her there and let her starve to death, with the other owner.
As it turn out , through the grapevine we found outthe pony was 40 years old, had one tooth left, and the old owner was feeding her whold grains, We put that little pony on a mash and in about 3 months she was starting to put on a little weight.
Were reported for her and they said that she could barely walk and was on deaths door. HS came out again and checked her out, found out how old she was, asked if they could verify with the vet, and watched her walk around, and then they left. 

I can't stand when people make judgements about animals without knowing anything about them or what the owner is doing, or trying to do.


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## lyceum (Oct 20, 2006)

Once again, I agree with everything you have said. They are either milking or getting ready to kid. They are not going to look like a boer goat. If you didn't know about dairy cows, you would think that dairys were not feeding enough, but that is just how a dairy animal looks. We have brought home some goats in prety pathetic shape and have snapped them right out of it after months of work. 

Carisa


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## pookshollow (Aug 22, 2005)

OMG, what have you done to their ears!?!  I'm calling the authorities right away! LOL

<<yup, my lowest producer doesn't have a single bone showing anywhere.>>

Ditto! My grade Alpine is putting 4 litres a day into the pail, and she's very bony. Mind you, she always was, even as a weanling kid. My NubianX is putting out maybe 2 1/2 litres - she's very sleek and shiny and well-upholstered. Not fat! just "healthy".


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## Scrounger (Jan 6, 2007)

pookshollow said:


> OMG, what have you done to their ears!?!  I'm calling the authorities right away! LOL


Well - DANG IT! You beat me to it! I was gonna say the same thing!
Hey - maybe now that there are TWO of us we SHOULD report her! They'd listen more then if it was just one!

Just kidding! I had my first case of pinkeye earlier this summer. I treated the doe (and her baby), and put them in a dark corner pen in the barn. She naturally cried alot because she was alone (except for baby) and couldn't see. I had her penned for two weeks. It was driving my sister mad! She was SURE that I was abusing the poor girl. She wanted me to put another goat in the pen with her or let her out. I never could get it through her semi-thick skull that I couldn't do either. I shudder when I think about what could of happened if it were someone else.


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## Caprice Acres (Mar 6, 2005)

HOWEVER those goats in the other thread's picture were not dairy goats. They are pygmy. And they should not ever look like that if in ideal conditions. Dairy goats and cows, yes. Because they produce. Pygmy goats don't produce enough milk to look like that. Especially since that doe is pregnant... it shouldn't look like that.

My dairy does aren't that skinny. I don't know what is called high production, but one peaked at only 7 lbs, while the other peaked at 11lbs. haven't ever looked overly bony. Then again, I assume the bonier goats are higher producers?


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## chamoisee (May 15, 2005)

Most of my does looked like that when they were milking. I got rid of the ones that stayed nice and plump all summer long. 

Believe it or not, I actually got bashed at goat shows for them being in poor condition.


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## ozark_jewels (Oct 7, 2005)

The goats in the other thread are *part* pygmy, not full. The doe in the front looks old and the red roan in the back is certainly not all pygmy. The pygmy looking goat to the one side is quite round, as is the red roan to the other side. The doe standing in front looks elderly and not fat...but NOT starving. Look at the over-all condition, not just the bones. That goat is shiny and bright-eyed.

And yes, as a general rule, the bonier the dairy doe, the more likely it is that she is giving more milk. Doesn't always apply. I have known Nubian does who really milked and stayed fat.  Thats why I only took pics of my bony gals, not the blubber-butts.


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## ozark_jewels (Oct 7, 2005)

By the way, the top goat picture and the bottom goat picture are yearlings that have both been shaved so you can see the bones better. They are both just a year old, one kidded twin doelings and one kidded triplet bucks. And they were both milking over a gallon each before the dog-days of summer hit. So no, I don't expect them to put much weight on yet. They are instead putting on height, bone and putting milk in the pail. As long as all their needs are met, they are fine.


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## Caprice Acres (Mar 6, 2005)

I'm sorry, I see most if not full pygmy. not the best looking, but that's what I see. Their small size and their markings/colorations... It just says pygmy. not the best, and not fancy registered stock, but backyard pygmies for sure.

And also, I just cannot say that those goats are in good condition for their size/breed. I see one behind that 'roan' doe on the left, and I see another severely sunken. The 'roan' looks a tad sunken, too. Once again, well taken care of pygmies shouldn't look like that. Even 'old' ones are usually chubby with good fat reserves.

I could be wrong. but from those pictures, I see something severely wrong that needs correction. Maybe after better ones are supplied we'll all know more.


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## susanne (Nov 4, 2004)

i only have one doe that really shows bones.  
all others showing loin and hip but not ribs. still can feel ribs without pushing . i also believe it all depends on the breed. i don't want my nubians looking so boney but this is only my preference


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## mamahen (May 11, 2002)

I have 4 goats at the moment. 2 does, 2 wethers. No one lactating, no one pregnant.

My first doe is 99% pygmy & is a butterball. The other 3 (her 2 offspring & a grandchild  ) Are more "boney". The buck wasn't a pygmy, but a mix - somewhere in his line are dairy genes, because his offspring carry a very "dairy" look about them. They were born meaty little kids, but then grew taller & leaner.

If you looked from one to the others, you'd think they were starving compared to "gramma" :shrug:


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## ozark_jewels (Oct 7, 2005)

mygoat said:


> I'm sorry, I see most if not full pygmy. not the best looking, but that's what I see. Their small size and their markings/colorations... It just says pygmy. not the best, and not fancy registered stock, but backyard pygmies for sure.
> 
> And also, I just cannot say that those goats are in good condition for their size/breed. I see one behind that 'roan' doe on the left, and I see another severely sunken. The 'roan' looks a tad sunken, too. Once again, well taken care of pygmies shouldn't look like that. Even 'old' ones are usually chubby with good fat reserves.
> 
> I could be wrong. but from those pictures, I see something severely wrong that needs correction. Maybe after better ones are supplied we'll all know more.


Like I said, without more *1st-hand* info...it is just useless to judge the owners care of these goats. And by *1st-hand* I don't mean pictures someone sent someone else.
If you look close, you can see fat behind the elbow of the roan doe....obviously not a starving gal.


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## BlueHeronFarm (Feb 9, 2007)

Well, it should be said I don't *want* mine to look like this either-- but they do. And I accept that overgraining them to add bulk to fit my idea of what looked good would actually be unhealthier than their little sunken waists during the season.

I am also SO glad to see that a lot of people have bony does - because even knowing it's OK, it still alarms me on some days and makes me a little sad. ...the does? They don't notice. Every one is spoiled rotten.


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## ozark_jewels (Oct 7, 2005)

susanne said:


> i only have one doe that really shows bones.
> all others showing loin and hip but not ribs. still can feel ribs without pushing . i also believe it all depends on the breed. i don't want my nubians looking so boney but this is only my preference


Yep, Susanne. Like I say, I didn't snap pictures of my blubber-butts. And you'll notice not a single one of those does is Nubian. 
The does in the above pictures are not my ideal doe weight. But since they are getting all the browse/hay they want and also grain at milking time, there isn't much I can do about it if they want to milk it all off. The point is, they are not hurting.....despite what some may think.


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## ozark_jewels (Oct 7, 2005)

Here are some more doe pics. These does are on the exact same diet that the bonier ones above are on. And while all are good milkers, none are milking as well as the above Lamanchas.....and notice they are all Nubians who hold more weight as a general rule than do other dairy breeds.


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## Caprice Acres (Mar 6, 2005)

I think I should clarify... I don't think any of the dairy goats posted so far look bad. They're all lovely. It's the pygmies that aren't right.


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## ozark_jewels (Oct 7, 2005)

mygoat said:


> I think I should clarify... I don't think any of the dairy goats posted so far look bad. They're all lovely. It's the pygmies that aren't right.


I knew what you meant, Dona.  I just think much more info is needed before anyone decides those goats are abused. Even if they aren't fat, it does not mean they are abused.


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## christij (Mar 5, 2006)

Emily after being to your place I don't worry about if the girls are fed no matter the pics b/c I know they are! those girls don't know how good they got it!!! Ohh... are those bottom two Nubians in anyway related to Cassie?? 

I just want to add my Cassie changes looks depending on the time of day/week you catch a glimpse at her. Now if I could get her udder to look like some of your girls we would be in business!


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## ozark_jewels (Oct 7, 2005)

Thats my point right there.....you've been here so you know. I think thats the least a person could try to do before reporting. By the way, thank you.  
Mulberry and Kenya aren't related to Cassie......but they do look like it, don't they? Mulberry is one of my favorite Nubians and Kenya is here because she is the only daughter of a Nubian I lost a couple years back.....She is sweet once you catch her...but catching her is the problem....dates back to the year I dam-raised.


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## Bercado (Jan 2, 2006)

Just wanted to agree. Our hounds and dairy cows always had some ribs showing. It was the sign of a productive animal.


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## AnniesGoats (May 18, 2007)

My girls (alpine, nubian and especially saanan), those that have been in milk for 6 or 7 months, are all bony looking (except for one nubian). I sometimes look at them and think, "Man, someone could call in and say I do not take care of them." But I do, and they are spoiled...very well taken care of. Even my boers look thin after twins have nursed on them for 4 or 5 months (and I usually leave the doelings on the dams that long).

I have not looked at the pygmy pics yet. They normally look like barrels on legs (no offense please) regardless of milking out twins. 

Thanks for posting these pictures, if nothing else, for the sake of mind for many of us!


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## sammyd (Mar 11, 2007)

I'm just glad I don't have people driving by and armchair quaterbacking my operation and waitng to call the HS at the drop of a hat. Not that my animals are mistreated in any way, just for the fact as said before..first hand info should be procurred before any action is taken and a lot of people have no idea how animals should really look.

"I've seen pictures of cows/goats in a book and these don't look like those"......


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## susanne (Nov 4, 2004)

my girls look more like the does in the last set of pictures  very similar.

and i totally agree, without knowing the history from the animals in question and more pictures it is nothing more than hot air. not of my busyness to interfere.


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## Up North (Nov 29, 2005)

Amen Emily. I thought whoever posted the thread about reporting goats starving had jumped to conclusions without providing all the facts.
For instance, the photo showed the goats standing in an area with short grass.
Maybe that was just a common area that recieved heavy foot traffic, like an area where they were watered or fed daily? How do we know if there is not a gate leading out of that area to another pasture?
How do we know if maybe the owner is supplementing them with hay?
Just saying folks should not jump to conclusions unless they have all the facts.


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## christij (Mar 5, 2006)

ozark_jewels said:


> Thats my point right there.....you've been here so you know. I think thats the least a person could try to do before reporting. By the way, thank you.
> Mulberry and Kenya aren't related to Cassie......but they do look like it, don't they? Mulberry is one of my favorite Nubians and Kenya is here because she is the only daughter of a Nubian I lost a couple years back.....She is sweet once you catch her...but catching her is the problem....dates back to the year I dam-raised.


No need to tell me about the dam-raising!!! I have given up trying to wean the girls and moving to the selling route!


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## Cygnet (Sep 13, 2004)

I meant to post on the other thread but doesn't look like it went through.

It is so true that people who are not familiar with dairy goats may get the wrong impression. I have a pack wether who, when I'm hiking with him, I'm worried about taking his pack off around "the general public" because he "looks" like he's starving -- he's got a backbone and hips that are showing and very "dairy" conformation. He's at a very good weight, just doesn't "look" it. Lots of energy, and he's a happy, healthy goat. He eats like a pig at home; he literally gets as much hay every day as I have fed to full-sized horses in the past and his only competition are two nigerian bucklings that definitely are below him in the pecking order! 

I had a horse person see him on the trail one day when I'd taken his pack off for lunch -- she was so convinced I was starving/abusing the "skinny" goat that she tried to buy him off me. :-( (Meanwhile, the goat is eating his own portion of potato chips and drinking from the bucket of electrolytes that I'd packed for him ... Really, he's starving ....) 

Leva


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## trappmountain (Jun 22, 2005)

Not being very familiar with dairy goats I was going to ask if they were like dairy cows. Of course you were good enough to answer that for me already. I had always noticed that dairy cows looked bony. They were just built that way. I guess it it the same for dairy goats. I have pygmys and they have more meat on them and the rounder bellies.


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## Gailann Schrader (May 10, 2002)

I always look for coat-shine. Yours have it. Skinny/unhealthy goats don't shine. Besides, my farrier/goat guru told me loooong ago that fat goats don't get pregnant as easily and tend to have problems kidding. 

Years ago I got reported over and over again for the horse I had in my front yard (rescued him). Finally the sheriff told me to "please move him to a paddock when you can so we can quit coming to bother you." The horse has been a poor keeper ever since. He liked watching TV through the picture window and I enjoyed not having to mow. Even 8 years or better later? I'm still known as the crazy woman who kept the Arab in the front yard. 

Late at night he would get spooked (duh - Arab) and would fly butt around the house at a dead run. I kinda miss that pounding hooves sound like a Ghost rider come to call...


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## XCricketX (Jun 7, 2006)

Emily's goats are all very nice, even the few skinny ones. I was able to come to her farm and feel the thin one's coats. Nice, slick, and soft! 
Definitely proof they are getting their nutrition!!!
I just recently bought some someplace else, and 1 has a rough coat... but by looking at her... she looks heavier than the pictures Emily posted of her thin girls. I started putting her on some good nutrition, and the rough hair is coming out. 
I just rescued a horse that was pregnant from the sale barn. She had a baby 1 day after I bought her! The horse was disgustingly thin! If someone were to come by the day I brought her home... they would probably report me as well. They just would not have all of the facts... like when I gave her fennel herb to make her bag up better for her baby.
No... not the abuser here!!!
I went on a trail ride one time, and was accused of abusing my horse because we staked them out for 10 minutes, but in the SUN! Even though we de-saddled them, brushed them out, put them on plush grass, and gave them plenty of water to drink! Hello!? Don't animals stand in the sun out in the pasture?

Cricket


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