# EMP warning on Fox news



## PrairieBelle22 (Nov 17, 2006)

Special Report with Brett Baier on Fox News had a segment this evening on the likelihood and results of an EMP - both natural and man made. They seemed to be leading us to believe that it was only a matter of time before N. Korea or Iran would launch an EMP over the US. They pointed out that EMP capabilities have been sold to these "rogue" countries by Russia and China.

They said that just last year one of these rockets had been found on a ship going through the Panama Canal, hidden under tons of sugar.

They explained the Carrington effect and stated that our power system is no safer today than the telegraph system was in 1859.

It did not strike me as a tongue in cheek joke, but perhaps a terse warning.

Right before this article they had another one about Iran's intentions of parking warships off the east coast of the US.

Belle


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## Zapthycat (Jan 7, 2014)

Fearmongering. Anything to get us to worry about Muslims in Iran instead of the Muslim in the White House. Worry about the tanks in N Korea, not the Tanks disguised as police cars down the street.


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## farmerpat (Jan 1, 2008)

Prairie- I watched it too, or should I say most of it. I missed the part about the missles and sugar.(was babysitting 3 yr old granddaughter). Reports say the electric grid in this country would NOT be difficult to take down, and I agree with them. I just bought a solar oven and will hopefully be picking it up next week, and I've got 2 woodstoves (only 1 hooked up) that I can use. But the thing that frightens me most about it is money. How would you pay your bills (mortgage just to name one)? They wouldn't be able to process the payment even if you paid them by check, as the banks would be down, etc. I worry somehow we'd get kicked off the land because it isn't paid off yet. I also read somewhere that if it did happen, that it would take a minimum of ONE YEAR to get the grid up and running again, and they said that was a "low" estimate.

I guess it's just one more thing to try to plan for. I thought when you got older, life was supposed to get easier and less complicated. Whoever said that, LIED!


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## willbuck1 (Apr 4, 2010)

The estimates I've seen are more like ten years. We don't produce transformers and such in the US and not many countries would put getting replacements to us high on their list of priorities.


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## Glade Runner (Aug 1, 2013)

willbuck1 said:


> The estimates I've seen are more like ten years. We don't produce transformers and such in the US and not many countries would put getting replacements to us high on their list of priorities.


Apparently the very large transformers needed to make the grid work are only manufactured in South Korea and Germany and even now it takes years to get one.


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## Jim-mi (May 15, 2002)

Yes the "grid" is extremely vulnerable and could well be down for way longer than a year.
Replacing those monster transformers is definately a weak link .....

Stop to think about that "Iran parking war ships off the coast" . . . . . .The "eyes in the skies" technology that we have would preclude any ship from "hiding" from us.

Yes the Muslim in the white house is a far greater threat for the here and now.....


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## Harry Chickpea (Dec 19, 2008)

"it was only a matter of time before N. Korea or Iran would launch an EMP over the US."

Tell your great grandchildren not to hold their breath. The chance of either of those places doing something like that is less than Martin Luther jumping out of the grave and twerking.


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## PrairieBelle22 (Nov 17, 2006)

I agree that the muslim in the white house is our greatest threat: he stands down the military in a manner that allows Iran or N. K. to make their move. then in the chaos that ensues, he takes over as dictator. Wouldn't that be a picnic!


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## Zapthycat (Jan 7, 2014)

It would take a nuke placed in space to be able to make an EMP wipe out the US. The list of countries that have reliable nuke tech are very low, and the number of countries that also have a space program that can get that reliable nuke into reliable orbit are even fewer. You can't park a ship off the coast and get an EMP. 

Fearmongering, on the other hand, is a powerful tool.


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## farmerpat (Jan 1, 2008)

With all due respect to your opinions, I do not think the media reporting on, ordinary citizens considering the worst case scenario of, and trying to plan for, an unusual event like an EMP is "fearmongering". You keep using that word. If you believe it is "fearmongering", then what exactly about prepping, TEOTWAWKI, SHTF do you NOT consider fearmongering? It seems to me that under your statements, ANY prepping would fall under succumbing to fearmongering. :shrug:

You can call it fearmongering if you wish. I, on the other hand, prefer to think of it as considering various severe and extended scenarios I need to give thought to for my family's survival.


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## davel745 (Feb 2, 2009)

I suspect that there is more than one Muslim in the WH


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## farmerpat (Jan 1, 2008)

willbuck1 said:


> The estimates I've seen are more like ten years. We don't produce transformers and such in the US and not many countries would put getting replacements to us high on their list of priorities.


Guess I better start working with the draft mules more. They would be our only non-motorized transportation other than the 2 psychotic horses, plus we'd need them for plowing a MUCH bigger garden to live on. Guess I better take more time to consider how we would live/survive without electricity, vehicles, and other things we take for granted every day for as long as 10 years. :nerd:hmmmmmmmmmmm


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## PrairieBelle22 (Nov 17, 2006)

well said, Farmerpat. 

DH and I have agreed that we should definitely step up some of our preps like cleaning and resurfacing the cistern, and converting our gas generators to nat gas (we are on well). Doing those things should be done anyway! Most of our preps are lifestyle adjustments more than all out stockpiling.


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## logbuilder (Jan 31, 2006)

PrairieBelle22 said:


> ... and converting our gas generators to nat gas (we are on well).


I've heard others talk about being on a gas well. Would the well keep providing gas to you if there was no electricity? I really don't know how they work.


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## simi-steading (Sep 27, 2012)

logbuilder said:


> I've heard others talk about being on a gas well. Would the well keep providing gas to you if there was no electricity? I really don't know how they work.


Yes.. a well runs with an engine, and most are set up to run from the gas it pumps... 

Most have electric controllers, but you can run the engine and clutch manually..

My well fires up ever night at 6:30 on it's own and pumps for 30 minutes... no gasoline required..


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## simi-steading (Sep 27, 2012)

BTW, I'd be more worried about this country falling because of financial collapse than from EMP.. The chance of an EMP attack is almost nill..


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## Jim-mi (May 15, 2002)

We can go round and round about EMP possibility's . . . . .I feel that a solar flare from the Sun is far far more likely to happen than NK or Iran.

With my electrical background I am well aware of oh so many weak links in our "grid" . . . .I will not be a "fearmonger" about this. . . .I just am quietly preparing for the what if......

Yup if you got mules I sure would put my efforts into sustaining their health.


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## Becka03 (Mar 29, 2009)

I read One Second After- and it was amazing I read it like 4 times in the last 2 yrs- when ever I go camping I read it LOL-
DH is reading it now- he is loving it too


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## Zapthycat (Jan 7, 2014)

farmerpat said:


> If you believe it is "fearmongering", then what exactly about prepping, TEOTWAWKI, SHTF do you NOT consider fearmongering? It seems to me that under your statements, ANY prepping would fall under succumbing to fearmongering.
> 
> You can call it fearmongering if you wish. I, on the other hand, prefer to think of it as considering various severe and extended scenarios I need to give thought to for my family's survival.


The financial system of this country *WILL* collapse, it's no longer a "probably", it's an eventuality. While EMP is a possibility that should be prepared for, I think (just my opinion, mind you) that it is a convenient smokescreen to disguise the actual disasters that will befall this country. 

If there was an EMP, it would hurt the power brokers in this country as well as the ordinary people. The power brokers don't want that, they want something that will separate the chaff from the grain, the poor from the rich, and there are plenty of other scenarios that could make that happen. Nothing happens on accident. 

I know, that's very "conspiracy theorist", maybe too far out for most folks. Take it with a grain of salt. 

And by ALL MEANS, prepare for whatever possibilities you envision. It's a poor mind that doesn't prepare just because something is outside his realm of understanding. I will prepare for it in a small way, not as a primary threat though. That's just me, and I'm NOT advising anyone else to do the same- do whatever you need to do to enable your family to survive.

That's all.


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## Zapthycat (Jan 7, 2014)

Becka03 said:


> I read One Second After- and it was amazing I read it like 4 times in the last 2 yrs- when ever I go camping I read it LOL-
> DH is reading it now- he is loving it too


I have that book, very well written. 

However it was a tad unrealistic... when people starve, they don't usually give the last grains to their kids and starve themselves, usually law & order breaks down. When you are starving, food is all you can think of and morals quickly go out the window, as does any empathy. It's the survival instinct, and it's a darn strong one.

Sad, but true.


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## Becka03 (Mar 29, 2009)

Zapthycat said:


> I have that book, very well written.
> 
> However it was a tad unrealistic... when people starve, they don't usually give the last grains to their kids and starve themselves, usually law & order breaks down. When you are starving, food is all you can think of and morals quickly go out the window, as does any empathy. It's the survival instinct, and it's a d*** strong one.
> 
> Sad, but true.



I don't know- I have never encountered this situation before- I do know for a fact that when I was little- my mother fed us instead of herself when we had no money- she would go hungry so we wouldn't- we were still hungry mind you- but not as much as her- hence her teaching us how to forage berries, eat dandelions...

I think it is hard to imagine what would actually happen unless you had to experience it- I can see the story being pretty accurate- but that is me reading it- others would read it and not see it the same way


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## PrairieBelle22 (Nov 17, 2006)

actually both of the wells we have on our property are both out of production but both still have enough pressure to push the gas through the lines and to our house. We had a company come assess it to see if it was quality and viable as a home energy option and they determined that it was. They put in a tank to collect the water from the gas and and a pressure reducer. 

We were double blessed with this property in that we got not 1 ng well but 2. both with good pressure and both with good volume. We have been running our central heat and air system on it and have been pleased. We will be converting to non electric space heaters shortly - probably within a month. We are doing that not just for prep practicality but also for health reasons. Forced air heat does not agree with my upper respiratory system.


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## haley1 (Aug 15, 2012)

PrairieBelle22 said:


> well said, Farmerpat.
> 
> DH and I have agreed that we should definitely step up some of our preps like cleaning and resurfacing the cistern, and converting our gas generators to nat gas (we are on well). Doing those things should be done anyway! Most of our preps are lifestyle adjustments more than all out stockpiling.



but won't the emp fry the generator and almost anything that you want to run with it?


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## Ozarks Tom (May 27, 2011)

Prepping for a financial collapse in my opinion is the same as prepping for an EMP or CME, with the possible exception of Faraday cages - protection for electronics. Same extended periods of chaos, martial law, shortages of all kinds, etc. Electricity would be sketchy at best in a collapse. I read a study recently where they tested cars and trucks under EMP conditions, and surprisingly the effects were negligible, and non existent if the vehicle wasn't running at the time. A generator, sitting unconnected would logically seem to be the same.

It doesn't take an ICBM to launch an EMP attack. The hyped-up Scud missiles NK and Iran have currently could do the job if launched from a container ship 30 miles off our coasts. Really, any moderately sized commercial ship would work. An ICBM would be tracked back to its origin, and spell instant retaliation, so a sneak attack would be the smart way to go.

With EMP effects being "line of sight" an attack could target regions, depending on altitude. Taking out the mid-west and and leaving the coasts functioning would still create the conditions necessary for a dictatorship to come about. That's where the tin foil hat gets adjusted, and the "false flag" scenario comes into play.

We're living in interesting times!


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## PrairieBelle22 (Nov 17, 2006)

haley1 said:


> but won't the emp fry the generator and almost anything that you want to run with it?


I think Ozarks Tom already pretty much addressed this, and this is something that we have discussed and done some research on. We have made some modifications to our metal shop so it will act as a giant Farraday cage. We have made sure that all of the metal over lapped and have metal doors. 

If anyone else had converted a metal building, I would love to hear what you did. The bad thing is, we don't have the ability to test it.


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## sdnapier (Aug 13, 2010)

farmerpat said:


> I guess it's just one more thing to try to plan for. I thought when you got older, life was supposed to get easier and less complicated. Whoever said that, LIED!


You cracked me up with this one. Yes, they did LIE. Now, if I could just figure out who "they" are....


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## farmerpat (Jan 1, 2008)

My late parents and my grandparents. All they talked about was getting to retire so they could "take it easy". And take it easy, they did. They lived in the city, and spent their retirement puttering in the yard, going out for coffee every morning, and traveling in their little camper.

Me? I'll NEVER get to retire, nor will d/h. We must have paying work to afford ObamaCRAP's skyrocketing premiums and deductibles, and the cost of propane and diesel going through the roof, and then you add in the cost of hay and mineral and animal feed, and it's getting harder with each passing year to scratch out a living.

Like I said -- they said life gets easier the older you get. For THEM it did ---- but that was a completely different time and place. I fear we will look back on the hard times and unemployment we're experiencing now, and will remember them as "the good old days."


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## cfuhrer (Jun 11, 2013)

PrairieBelle22 said:


> I think Ozarks Tom already pretty much addressed this, and this is something that we have discussed and done some research on. We have made some modifications to our metal shop so it will act as a giant Farraday cage. We have made sure that all of the metal over lapped and have metal doors.
> 
> If anyone else had converted a metal building, I would love to hear what you did. The bad thing is, we don't have the ability to test it.


http://thesurvivalmom.com/2012/10/09/skill-of-the-month-make-a-faraday-cage/

AM/FM radio test and instructions for a small "cage"

I hope this was the right blog post, my phone only loaded the page far enough for me to grab the address before it closed the page.

She also threw out some startling post EMP/CME population numbers


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## farmerpat (Jan 1, 2008)

Becka03 said:


> I read One Second After- and it was amazing I read it like 4 times in the last 2 yrs- when ever I go camping I read it LOL-
> DH is reading it now- he is loving it too


I've been meaning to read it for several years now, and just never got around to getting a copy. Your rave review of it prompted me to get a copy on EBay for $7.00 (incl shipping). Hope it comes soon - have almost gone blind reading all of the new gardening books I got on EBay, and would like to read something on a different subject.


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## Becka03 (Mar 29, 2009)

farmerpat said:


> I've been meaning to read it for several years now, and just never got around to getting a copy. Your rave review of it prompted me to get a copy on EBay for $7.00 (incl shipping). Hope it comes soon - have almost gone blind reading all of the new gardening books I got on EBay, and would like to read something on a different subject.


I hope you enjoy it as much I have- It is literally one of my most favorite books off all time...I have read 100's of books- and I have NEVER ever reread a book- except this one-


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## Zapthycat (Jan 7, 2014)

Becka03 said:


> I don't know- I have never encountered this situation before- I do know for a fact that when I was little- my mother fed us instead of herself when we had no money- she would go hungry so we wouldn't- we were still hungry mind you- but not as much as her- hence her teaching us how to forage berries, eat dandelions...
> 
> I think it is hard to imagine what would actually happen unless you had to experience it- I can see the story being pretty accurate- but that is me reading it- others would read it and not see it the same way


I once went on a 40 day fast. It was not pleasant. 

Your brain is materially affected. Now mind you, I did take soup once in a while with proper nutrient supplements, but not having food in your belly makes you ONLY want to eat. And actual starvation quickly makes you think of nothing but food, and YOURSELF. It's the way our brains are engineered. Survival is a darn strong instinct.

That means that when SHTF, the friendly soccer-mom down the street will quickly become a ruthless despot in her attempt to be fed. It's not pretty.


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## Ozarks Tom (May 27, 2011)

Zapthycat said:


> I once went on a 40 day fast. It was not pleasant.
> 
> Your brain is materially affected. Now mind you, I did take soup once in a while with proper nutrient supplements, but not having food in your belly makes you ONLY want to eat. And actual starvation quickly makes you think of nothing but food, and YOURSELF. It's the way our brains are engineered. Survival is a darn strong instinct.
> 
> That means that when SHTF, the friendly soccer-mom down the street will quickly become a ruthless despot in her attempt to be fed. It's not pretty.


We're only 3 meals away from incivility.


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## Becka03 (Mar 29, 2009)

that is right- 3 meals from anarchy- well- not my household  LOL- we have a good 3 months- then it will be growing season and I will start preserving again- and we have enough to last us thru a bad growing season if that is the case- 

have you read The Road?
I see me being like that if hunger takes over- only I would be a mom- not a dad-


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## farmerpat (Jan 1, 2008)

We are at least a year away from anarchy -- we have 45 cow-calf pairs in the pasture, 3 dairy cows, 4 pigs, 7 goats, and some assorted poultry that would be edible on demand if we needed it. I also have 2 freezers filled with deer and elk, and a huge pantry filled with lots of quart jars filled with fruit, veggies, and meat. I'm hoping to make a MUCH larger garden this year, and I'm also going to enlarge the poultry flock. I don't know how we'd make it without electricity, but we do have a propane generator on a separate tank, and that tank is full. Wish I had a stream or artesian well. Our well runs on electricity but I'm hoping to change that.

Maybe I'm different, but I couldn't bear to see my 3 yr granddaughter starve. I'd gladly give her my food and have myself starve to death if it meant she'd survive. If anything happened to her, I wouldn't want to go on living anyway. But I can see how some people would see the situation differently.


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## Becka03 (Mar 29, 2009)

farmerpat said:


> We are at least a year away from anarchy -- we have 45 cow-calf pairs in the pasture, 3 dairy cows, 4 pigs, 7 goats, and some assorted poultry that would be edible on demand if we needed it. I also have 2 freezers filled with deer and elk, and a huge pantry filled with lots of quart jars filled with fruit, veggies, and meat. I'm hoping to make a MUCH larger garden this year, and I'm also going to enlarge the poultry flock. I don't know how we'd make it without electricity, but we do have a propane generator on a separate tank, and that tank is full. Wish I had a stream or artesian well. Our well runs on electricity but I'm hoping to change that.
> 
> Maybe I'm different, but I couldn't bear to see my 3 yr granddaughter starve. I'd gladly give her my food and have myself starve to death if it meant she'd survive. If anything happened to her, I wouldn't want to go on living anyway. But I can see how some people would see the situation differently.



I wish we had cattle and chickens!
I agree with you though- I would die of starvation- before my kids would- cause a world with out them isn't a life I want to live...


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## willbuck1 (Apr 4, 2010)

The unrealistic thing is thinking it can't or won't happen. A reliable nuke is 1940's technology and getting it into orbit is 1950's tech. Lot's of people hate the US and it is only a matter of time. Any decent machine shop can manufacture a nuke if they have the fissionable material, high grade explosives, and someone who can do the math. Centrifuges don't have to be million dollar machines, they can be manufactured in the same machine shop. There is nothing magical or necessarily high tech about a nuke. There isn't a nation on the planet that couldn't build a simple nuke if they wanted. Most medium sized corporations can put the resources together that are necessary to do all of it except obtain the fissionables. A rocket can be put together using mostly off the shelf parts that would be far more accurate than anything the US or Russia had until recently. It would require some custom machining but the most expensive parts of old are eclipsed by off the shelf components of today. Iran and N. Korea want enough nukes to be enough of a threat to keep us off their back. Anyone who planned to surprise us with an EMP would develop one or two using only home manufactured or commonly available parts and could if patient enough accrue enough uranium and plutonium to build the bomb and stay off the radar.


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## Eagle_and_hawk (Nov 22, 2008)

Zapthycat said:


> It would take a nuke placed in space to be able to make an EMP wipe out the US. The list of countries that have reliable nuke tech are very low, and the number of countries that also have a space program that can get that reliable nuke into reliable orbit are even fewer. You can't park a ship off the coast and get an EMP.
> 
> Fearmongering, on the other hand, is a powerful tool.


You are thinking of an EMP that could cover the entire USA in one explosion and that's not needed. Pick a heavily populated area like New York City, along with a 100 mile radius and take out their power. They will start moving from the concrete jungles and heading out to the rest of the country, looking for food and shelter. From there, it could just be a matter of time.


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## Shrek (May 1, 2002)

IF NK tried sending a package to us the SK would send warning to AK and AK and Canada would be the closest it could come to being delivered to us.


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## Darren (May 10, 2002)

Glade Runner said:


> Apparently the very large transformers needed to make the grid work are only manufactured in South Korea and Germany and even now it takes years to get one.


New transformers would have to come from Europe. ABB bought out the Westinghouse transformer business. They eventually closed the plant in Muncie but still produce large transformers in Canada. The Canadian plant would probably be shut down by a natural EMP.

One of the limiting factors is the availability of the rail cars used to ship those transformers. There aren't many of them. An EMP would affect railroads too. Even if you were able to get a transformer shipped to this country you'd still have logistics issues getting it to where needed.

This is my favorite picture of a Schnabel car. This one is in Europe. We use the same type of car to move large transformers here.


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## Jim-mi (May 15, 2002)

With a vivid picture like that, do you not see why there are no "spares" sitting around.


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## Darren (May 10, 2002)

You'd be amazed at how many expect the utilities to have main transformers setting around. One new power plant did order a spare which was setup so the it did not have to be moved to be onnected to the generator. It was setting beside the other three, one per phase. It had everything installed except for the bus connection. That was highly unusual for a utility to do that.


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## haley1 (Aug 15, 2012)

So would the nuke plants go down and loose control of the process and go boom boom?


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## Ozarks Tom (May 27, 2011)

haley1 said:


> So would the nuke plants go down and loose control of the process and go boom boom?


As I understand it, the nuke plants cooling systems would eventually shut down, causing the nuclear fuel to boil the then still water. The steam created would blow the containment dome, releasing radiated steam. Then the fuel rods would melt. I'm not sure how much radiation would continue to escape.

The active fuel is just a small part of the problem. The "spent" rods are stored on site, and have accumulated for many years. They are nearly as hazardous as the active fuel rods. We've had a depository ready and waiting in Nevada for all the old fuel, but politics has kept them from being safely stored.


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## Aintlifegrand (Jun 3, 2005)

I have always felt that this world would have a combination of events..smaller ones leading up to something bigger such as a regional emp or widespread pandemic that begins the domino....i think things like 9-11..political upheaval...extreme weather crisis...economic deep recessions like 2008-current are all leading up to a bigger event..such as an emp or a widespread pandemic..something big that will bring the fragile economy to a halt..then fear and chaos will reign. When prepping the best rule is to plan for a combination of crisis..and then pray that they will never happen


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## Guest (Jan 30, 2014)

simi-steading said:


> Yes.. a well runs with an engine, and most are set up to run from the gas it pumps...
> 
> Most have electric controllers, but you can run the engine and clutch manually..
> 
> My well fires up ever night at 6:30 on it's own and pumps for 30 minutes... no gasoline required..


Your well is making a lot of fluid , that's what the pumping jack is pumping out . Water or oil or both . The gas is under pressure & comes out on it's own if not flooded out with fluid . 
Your well is probably weak in gas pressure & has to have the fluid pumped out so the gas can rise .


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## farmgal (Nov 12, 2005)

WV Hillbilly said:


> Your well is making a lot of fluid , that's what the pumping jack is pumping out . Water or oil or both . The gas is under pressure & comes out on it's own if not flooded out with fluid .
> Your well is probably weak in gas pressure & has to have the fluid pumped out so the gas can rise .


I was thinking the same thing. My NG well needs no help from a pump, enough natural pressures there. Maybe he has plenty of potential for oil from his well. could be a good sign.


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## Darren (May 10, 2002)

haley1 said:


> So would the nuke plants go down and loose control of the process and go boom boom?


After Fukishima, a lot of people are wondering that. The diesel generators at nukes are in heavy bunkers. The idea is that if off site power is lost the reactor can be shut down and taken to cold iron status. That doesn't answer the question about what happens to the spent fuel stored under water in the the spent fuel pools. That triggered the Fukishima mess. The pools would have to be cooled continuously. 

The question is what happens after a plant runs out of diesel fuel? Once the generators shut down, the problems start if off site power hasn't been restored. The answer is really site specific. Some sites have natural gas fueled generators which might help in those areas served by the engine driven compressor stations. 

In an area where the compressors are driven by electric motors having a natural gas fueled generator wouldn't help. In the very short term, all of the nukes could be shut down safely. What happens in the long term is site specific. 

Fuel would be the key issue. How do you get more fuel to power the generators after an EMP?

After TMI, existing nuclear power plants and those under construction had to make changes to incorporate new TMI related NRC requirements. Fukishima will be no different. Any problem uncovered by Fukishima will end up as a required action from the NRC.

How long will that take? All nukes operate under a five year long term plan which lists maintenance and new construction That's approved by the NRC. The idea is that the NRC has a say and the financial issues are transparent.

Any new priorities will have to be incorporated in those plans.

The nation needs an EMP recovery plan similar to the restart plan that's used to bring the grid up after a loss of power that covers many states. AFAIK that doesn't exist. The restart plan is coordinated by utilities and power generation dispatch centers. What is needed is a plan that covers resources outside the utility industry. 

The closest existing plan is the one put together to evacuate Washington D.C. in the event of a terrorist attack. I mention that because fuel was an issue and supposedly that was addressed.

There's an individual here locally that was involved in that plan. Maybe I need to have a sit down with him. He still has contacts.


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## mnn2501 (Apr 2, 2008)

Zapthycat said:


> It would take a nuke placed in space to be able to make an EMP wipe out the US. The list of countries that have reliable nuke tech are very low, and the number of countries that also have a space program that can get that reliable nuke into reliable orbit are even fewer. You can't park a ship off the coast and get an EMP.
> 
> Fearmongering, on the other hand, is a powerful tool.


Actually it would only take 3 nuke strikes 20 miles overhead to wipe out the electronics of 90% of America along with most of the populated areas of Canada.

One from the East Coast, one from the West Coast and one from the Gulf of Mexico.

Easily done by any nation with a nuke.


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## Darren (May 10, 2002)

Or we wait for the next Carrington event which is just a matter of time.


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## Jim-mi (May 15, 2002)

And the clock is ticking toward that time . . . . .But there are far more pressing maters to tackle "right now" . . . . 
.Matters like gay marriage and abortion are far more important than the grid going down for the count . . . .

Yup a whole bunch of priority's are very badly mucked up........


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## Darren (May 10, 2002)

You're obviously not getting the big picture. Common sense doesn't factor into government these days.


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## Becka03 (Mar 29, 2009)

learning to live without power is a an excellent idea- I strive to purchase things that do not use electric- 

power goes out- we will still have coffee
we will still have light
we will still have the ability to wire the old land lines- ( hubby is a telecom guy)


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