# Is the Sun finally rising on Solar Power?



## deaconjim (Oct 31, 2005)

> An Interview with Rob Styler of Citizenre
> Press Release from Affordable Photovoltaics LLC
> 
> In the past, "going green" usually implied sacrifice. You get to feel good about saving the planet but most "green" products are more expensive than their "dirty" counterparts. With Citizenre, going green can actually save you money.
> ...


http://www.renewableenergyaccess.com/rea/partner/story?id=47180

This is a very interesting idea. What do you think?


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## Ross (May 9, 2002)

Neat idea but it does sound too good to be true. There's a few obvious nasty components too, like the 25 year plan where you pay todays rate. That's great but in 25 years you face a massive increase in your power rate, just in time to retire. You could plan for that, and invest the savings (not that most would) It would be intereting to read the contract details. They are putting a depreciating asset on your property in your care, somebody is paying for it somehow, and with a (defacto) declining rent and free service calls it makes me wonder.


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## deaconjim (Oct 31, 2005)

Ross said:


> Neat idea but it does sound too good to be true. There's a few obvious nasty components too, like the 25 year plan where you pay todays rate. That's great but in 25 years you face a massive increase in your power rate, just in time to retire. You could plan for that, and invest the savings (not that most would) It would be intereting to read the contract details. They are putting a depreciating asset on your property in your care, somebody is paying for it somehow, and with a (defacto) declining rent and free service calls it makes me wonder.


The 25 year contract is an option, you can opt for a shorter time, but it would result in possibly higher rates when renewal time comes around. If you want out sooner, all you will lose is your $500 security deposit.

When the contract is up, you would have the option of removing the equipment and hooking up to the grid if you wanted, but you would be paying the same or higher rates. It would seem to me that paying the lower rate for 25 years and then taking the step change would be better than getting the increases constantly over that 25 years. By the time the contract is up, the kids will be out of the house, our other bills would be lower, and the only big power draw that I can see adding would be the chargers for our electric scooters.


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## Jim-mi (May 15, 2002)

I get really excited when I hear the main man using the terms_____"vertical intergration"____WOW

If they don't pay at the end of the contract__"we'll just take the system off the roof"___WOW. Any body wanna buy a old inverter etc. etc. . .?

Here in my area of Mich. the local utility treats >"net metering"< with . . .you pay 9.3 cents per kwh and those kind souls will pay you back 2.95 cents per kwh for what YOU generate. . . . . And they are currently getting away with that bad deal.
So . . . .not to many areas>yet< have true net metering.

"If it sounds to good to be true" . . . you know the rest.

Another one . . . . . .BUYER BEWARE


Bottom line: Bite the bullet and get your OWN system.

You will be far better off.


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## mightybooboo (Feb 10, 2004)

Lets see how it plays out.A 'plan' vrs real life are very different.

I would prefer pay up front too,but if you cant this may be an option.

BooBoo :gromit:


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## idahodave (Jan 20, 2005)

Can you say Enron?


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## Jim-mi (May 15, 2002)

No I can't

Because you allready have. . . . >. . . . . . lol

Thanks Dave


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## ma1bob (Dec 12, 2006)

Interesting concept. Worthwhile looking into. It appears that they are looking at having pre-signups as a way of generating capital. Only concern is that they can't get it up on-line. They would be able to file bankruptcy and everyone is out thier $500. Not much risk in the real world actually.

Cheers

Bob


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## deaconjim (Oct 31, 2005)

ma1bob said:


> Interesting concept. Worthwhile looking into. It appears that they are looking at having pre-signups as a way of generating capital. Only concern is that they can't get it up on-line. They would be able to file bankruptcy and everyone is out thier $500. Not much risk in the real world actually.
> 
> Cheers
> 
> Bob


You don't have to pay the $500 until they come to your home and design the system. The next step for them would be to install the system, so it is logical for them to want the deposit at that point. Like you said, it is a small risk.


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## Jim-mi (May 15, 2002)

Would you care to define >small< risk.


. . . . . . .???? . . . . .


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## Jim-mi (May 15, 2002)

Here it is

. ."Lets get your $500 vertically intergrated into our pockets"


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## deaconjim (Oct 31, 2005)

Jim-mi said:


> Would you care to define >small< risk.
> 
> 
> . . . . . . .???? . . . . .


$500 would qualify. I've thrown away more money than that on an ill advised weekend.


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## michiganfarmer (Oct 15, 2005)

they also require a land based telephone line at the residence


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## deaconjim (Oct 31, 2005)

I have recently talked to a rep from this company, and they have solved the two biggest problems that I have with their plan.

First, they are now including (at no additional cost) a buss transfer switch that will disconnect the system from the grid in the event of a power outage. This will allow you to continue to use the solar power without creating an "island" in the grid which is dangerous to power company linemen.

Second, they will allow you to install your own battery bank to provide storage capacity.

I'm still wary of giving them any money, but they haven't asked for any. If they come through as promised, I will give them a try. I have also agreed to sign up as a sales rep (this is the official disclaimer just in case I need one), but I won't start actively promoting their service until I am convinced that it is legit.


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## Ross (May 9, 2002)

Thanks for keeping us posted.


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## mightybooboo (Feb 10, 2004)

My BooBoo Radar [prophead] is in high alert on this one.

If its viable they would have investors willing to put up the millions required.They dont.

They have salesmen selling 500 dollar contracts.Think about it,just covering overhead takes a LOT of sales.

I see a BK coming.........

BooBoo :gromit:


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## chuckhole (Mar 2, 2006)

The link posted at the top of the thread no longer exists. There is a new article on the site regarding the proposition. To paraphrase, the $500 buy in is a multilevel marketing scheme. Please go to the new article and at least read what they have to say. Don't become a new Amway victim.

Citizenre: A House of Cards?


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## deaconjim (Oct 31, 2005)

mightybooboo said:


> My BooBoo Radar [prophead] is in high alert on this one.
> 
> If its viable they would have investors willing to put up the millions required.They dont.
> 
> ...


They apparently do have the investors, they have not collected any of the $500 deposits, and they don't intend to until they are ready to install the systems. It could be a scam, but so far I haven't been able to figure out how the scam would work. They are NOT collecting any money from anyone yet, and they don't make anyone make a binding commitment until the system is ready to be installed.


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## deaconjim (Oct 31, 2005)

chuckhole said:


> The link posted at the top of the thread no longer exists. There is a new article on the site regarding the proposition. To paraphrase, the $500 buy in is a multilevel marketing scheme. Please go to the new article and at least read what they have to say. Don't become a new Amway victim.
> 
> Citizenre: A House of Cards?


Thanks for the link, I hadn't seen this one. 

The $500 was a security deposit only. The MLM part of it was not connected to that money.

That being said, I was very interested in the following comment that was posted on the article at the link you provided. The author of this post is Dr. Richard George, who would have been my regional sales manager had I signed up for their plan.



> I was the author of the discussion document that was leaked by someone else to www.linkitt.com and http://solarkismet.wordpress.com . As the only PhD in Citizenre's sales network whose dissertation involved photovoltaics, I became increasingly concerned about the absolute lack of verification of claims being made by the company, particularly after the promised January press releases revealing the investors and plant details never materialized. I drafted a 63 page PowerPoint presentation outlining a wide variety of concerns and problems that need to be addressed. Citizenre's management refused to answer any of these questions and was extremely hostile to individuals raising uncomfortable questions. Since there was no concern for the damage that all of the red flags could do to either the solar industry or to the 5,600+ "ecopreneurs", I chose to resign from my pending appointment as the Regional Sales Director for the Mid Atlantic Region. One other RSD also chose to resign last week.


Armed with this information, obviously I don't think this deal is going anywhere but down the tubes. If they do manage produce, that will be great, and I will be happy to consider them again. Fortunately, there's been no money exchanged or contracts signed, so I'm not out anything.


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## mightybooboo (Feb 10, 2004)

chuckhole said:


> The link posted at the top of the thread no longer exists. There is a new article on the site regarding the proposition. To paraphrase, the $500 buy in is a multilevel marketing scheme. Please go to the new article and at least read what they have to say. Don't become a new Amway victim.
> 
> Citizenre: A House of Cards?


Partial quotes from chuckholes source
-----------------------------------------------------------

Author:
Dr. Richard George
Date Posted:
February 12, 2007
I was the author of the discussion document that was leaked by someone else to www.linkitt.com and http://solarkismet.wordpress.com . As the only PhD in Citizenre's sales network whose dissertation involved photovoltaics, I became increasingly concerned about the absolute lack of verification of claims being made by the company, particularly after the promised January press releases revealing the investors and plant details never materialized.

I drafted a 63 page PowerPoint presentation outlining a wide variety of concerns and problems that need to be addressed. Citizenre's management refused to answer any of these questions and was extremely hostile to individuals raising uncomfortable questions. 

Since there was no concern for the damage that all of the red flags could do to either the solar industry or to the 5,600+ "ecopreneurs", I chose to resign from my pending appointment as the Regional Sales Director for the Mid Atlantic Region. One other RSD also chose to resign last week.
Comment 5 of 8
Author:
Dr. Richard George
Date Posted:
February 12, 2007
I find it interesting that Dr. Wills took the time to exchange emails with an industry email list but never took the time to send a single email or participate in a conference call with any of the 5600+ ecopreneurs. 

He has a lot of explaining to do to a lot of people in the industry because his credibility is what convinced many individuals, including myself, to work with Citizenre. 

If investors have not invested $650 million as claimed, the company is guilty of material misrepresentations and is little more than a highly unethical attempt to get independent sellers to invest their time and money to prove that a market exists so they can hopefully close their financing.

I also find it interesting that the company chooses to be so incredibly secretive and so hostile to ecopreneurs who ask difficult questions instead of complying with the desired cult-like group think, take details on faith.
Comment 6 of 8
Author:
Richard George
Date Posted:
February 12, 2007
Citizenre has not been honest with its associates about production constraints and schedules. Last night on the Sunday night conference call, the story about the plant changed.

Instead of it taking six months from a March ground breaking to have installations start in September, now the story is an April groundbreaking, nine months to build the plant, and the first installations in January or February 2008. 

Given the number of customers already signed up, anyone who signs up today could expect no earlier than a June 2008 installation assuming the financing even exists.
-------------------------------------------------------
A lot more there,and more investigating promised.

Thats just the kind of thing the BooBoo Radar [prophead] was a quiver about,just seems too far fetched.....promising more than the industry giants have been able to do,thats quite a bit of 'claim'.

BooBoo :gromit:


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## mightybooboo (Feb 10, 2004)

Wrong thread


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