# When the hordes come...



## GREEN_ALIEN (Oct 17, 2004)

They might be shocked at what they find, or don't find as is the point of this topic.

The hordes I am talking about are the city refugees that may seek refuge among the farms, that some of us here own, during a serious SHTF scenario.

My thought for this thread came from Sourdoughs thread on European Immigration.

So, SHTF and the hordes leave the cities to the rural farming country, possibly in search of food, water, shelter, security etc.. What will they find when they get 'there'?

In this area of the mid west they would be better off in the cities. The farms here mono-crop heavily. Corn one year, beans the next and we are not talking the choice 'eatin' varieties here. The beans are a heavy oil variety and the corn is all field type grown for animal food. While edible, none of it is what you could call palatable. Heck, it's mostly not edible anyhow. Both are ripe for only a short time and after that are dried off to dust.

There are no chickens and eggs, no dairy cows, no butcher pigs and certainly no big family gardens. That's correct city folks, there are not any easy pickins around here. 

The nearest place to me with anything on that list is a couple of Amish farms six or so miles down the road.

There are no streams, creeks or lakes but there are some dugouts. LOL Drink if ya want to bad enough.

The family farm in the idealistic sense is long gone and has been replaced with a business with a country mailing address.

So, when the hordes come to your neck of the woods, what will they find?


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## razorcat (Jul 23, 2015)

Currently, acres of very painful poison oak and greenbrier vines.


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## kasilofhome (Feb 10, 2005)

Fish, wood, water moose, bear,boos.
Cold snow ice dark limited shelter
Little infrastructure.

If the bring tools and skills.
And lower their standards
Well, it would be very hard but do able... but the would have to get pass sourdough.
He would be the gate keeper.


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## GREENCOUNTYPETE (Jul 25, 2006)

while we have a ton of dairy , more cows than people , they will only see a few the rest will be a rotted stench, without automated milkers and workers to run them, without machinery to move the massive amounts of feed or in some cases even the electricity to open the huge overhead doors on the dairy or run the air exchange system, if they can't milk for 48 hours it won't be good 

now if they could assign a person to every 2 cows and get them out of the confinement barns and milk them twice a day , the person would be fairly well set with milk , but that would mean every able bodied person in the county would have to take over 2 cows milking ,grazing would be possible till the snow covers


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## Sawmill Jim (Dec 5, 2008)

I know many will dismiss this but here goes :cowboy: Just in the last short while the increase of prowlers and thieves has increased to a unbelievable level.Now thing is we are kind of in the sticks our county cops are 24 miles away Most work away from their house and can't fix a meal short of stopping at a store .

Next thing they will find is fences ,alarms on everything in sight and last but not least more guns pointed at them than they can count. That is today's condition should the hoards head this way I have no idea what will happen .


You drive in most drive ways here you best blow that horn real good ,so folks don't think you are sneaking up on them . Also know they will still be in reach of a shooting iron :cowboy: As I said this is NOW . Do not show up after dark unless you call ahead ,unless you like guns pointed at you .


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## TnAndy (Sep 15, 2005)

Well, I live in a valley between two ranges of mountains. The only way in is over a gap at the upper end of the valley (about a 7 mile trip thru the woods), or the lower end of the valley (where the stream from the water shed exits) across a bridge thru a narrow gap where the mountains come down to the road/stream. There are maybe 150 people that live in the valley in about 50 households. 

Maybe a 1/4 of them have gardens,(but not even close to raising 1/2 their food) or have food 'on the hoof', cut their own wood, etc ..... another 1/4 are on some kind of govt check, and the rest simply do what most folks do....buy their food/etc in town, heat with electric/propane. Besides us, I only know of two other households that comes close to producing a significant portion of what they eat. A dozen or so use wood as their primary source of heat. So maybe 20 people out of 150 would have SOME chance at lasting a while should they not be able to get to town.

In talking with a couple of them, we've sorta come up with a loose plan. That is, the ones without anything we 'hope' would take off for town...hoping to find stuff there, and maybe stay there near a source of food. Because at some point (yet to be defined), we plan to 'close off' the valley. Dropping a few hundred large trees across the gap road will shut off it off to vehicles (took a week of concentrated effort to clear it from a tree dropping ice storm 20 years back). The lower end, something similar, in addition to blocking/guarding the bridge area. We hope that would shut off most outsiders from getting here. That STILL leaves the problem of what to do with those that are here. 3-4 dozen deer, about that many wild turkey,(both assuming you could actually get them all) maybe 30 head of cattle, and a few dozen pigs (both depending on time of year) are the extent of 'on hoof' eating...not a lot for 100 people that would likely still be here. Gonna get down to some real choices right here in the 'neighborhood', without any outside pressure.


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## Cabin Fever (May 10, 2002)




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## NEfarmgirl (Jan 27, 2009)

They will find nothing but disappointment. Most homes in the rural area around us don't have gardens, animals or fruit trees. They have nice manicured lawns, pretty trees and shrubs. Most people in our area live in the country to get away from the city so they can sleep; they work in the city and drive time takes a chunk from their day so they don't have time to tend to anything.


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## TnAndy (Sep 15, 2005)

Cabin Fever,

Not quite as modern, but they would get the point...and the barrels don't tend to over heat !

AND it's not a class 3 weapon !


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## Roadking (Oct 8, 2009)

Hmmm, here? In our little area (just say 5 square miles) 2 cattle (dairy) farms of the family type, several hay fields and a small town of limited substance. A few streams with trout, some deer and turkey, plenty of coyotes, bears and racoons.

Go further out, and you are in weekender territory; the boating lake and antique shops, etc.

Got to say CabinFever has the best plan for when the hordes arrive... :cowboy:

Matt


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## simi-steading (Sep 27, 2012)

Here, trees dropped across the road, then lead flying towards them if they pass the downed trees..


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## Sourdough (Dec 28, 2011)

.....Deleted......by Sourdough


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## no really (Aug 7, 2013)

Here on the border (Mexico) the land is arid and not conducive to even the hardiest. We find dead border crossers periodically and they are a lot tougher than most city dwellers. The only way we make a living and get by here is by working together, very tight community out here in the middle of nowhere. We take care of our own.


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## Janis R (Jun 27, 2013)

We live in a depressed rural area and most people barely get by and their houses are in poor shape. I see very few gardens and only a handful of people have animals.


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## TnAndy (Sep 15, 2005)

Janis R said:


> We live in a depressed rural area and most people barely get by and their houses are in poor shape. *I see very few gardens and only a handful of people have animals.*


That's because there is so much free food around (EBT, give-aways, free school breakfast/lunch), there is no incentive to have a garden or raise animals. THAT'S why you don't see them.

As for houses in poor shape, it's often because they don't give a flip. Neighbor of mine (no garden, does have few cows, and a BUNCH of horses) lives in a $3,000 falling down trailer, but has a $10,000 horse trailer (complete with AC) parked in front of his home. Also just built a fairly nice barn for his horses.


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## Sourdough (Dec 28, 2011)

My plan is to tell people that the Government is bringing in food & supplies to Seward, Alaska. And that they are ferrying people out of Alaska to Hawaii by ships with food.



simi-steading said:


> Here, trees dropped across the road, then lead flying towards them if they pass the downed trees..


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## Old Vet (Oct 15, 2006)

Lets see Deer turkey and some beef cows. If you come here you are lost or trying something different. If you are a good hunter you may make it but the Park ranger may have a say on that. Other wise the land owner will have a lot to say about that.


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## Oldshep (Mar 28, 2015)

We have alot of smaller family farms here but no cities within a hundred miles. I don't see too many leaving what they know to venture way out here into what they see as "deliverance" territory. Having lived in the city and knowing many city people I can tell you that they have a fear of rural places and people.

I figure they will stay put, riot and prey on each other. By the time they get desperate enough to make it way up this way that herd will be pretty thin.


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## Sourdough (Dec 28, 2011)

If you read carefully some of the posts in this thread........some are NOT coming to grips with over FOUR MILLION refugees just invaded Europe, and it is not over.

Many of us here on this forum and many other forums are proud of how we have worked to provide for those we love. But guns and razor wire is not slowing down MILLIONS invading Europe.

To me this is the issue that preppers want to pretend does not exist, or can be handled by killing everyone.


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## Sawmill Jim (Dec 5, 2008)

Sourdough said:


> If you read carefully some of the posts in this thread........some are NOT coming to grips with over FOUR MILLION refugees just invaded Europe, and it is not over.
> 
> Many of us here on this forum and many other forums are proud of how we have worked to provide for those we love. But guns and razor wire is not slowing down MILLIONS invading Europe.
> 
> To me this is the issue that preppers want to pretend does not exist, or can be handled by killing everyone.


Can't say but at a hundred yards out I guess if the body pile gets high enough they will stop :help:


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## Sourdough (Dec 28, 2011)

[No message]


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## edcopp (Oct 9, 2004)

Hopefully they will have some tools with them when they arrive. Axes picks shovels , hand saws and so on will have some value when it gets hungry enough to talk trade. 

Plenty of parking space a couple of miles over there along the state road.


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## Oldshep (Mar 28, 2015)

Sourdough said:


> If you read carefully some of the posts in this thread........some are NOT coming to grips with over FOUR MILLION refugees just invaded Europe, and it is not over.
> 
> Many of us here on this forum and many other forums are proud of how we have worked to provide for those we love. But guns and razor wire is not slowing down MILLIONS invading Europe.
> 
> To me this is the issue that preppers want to pretend does not exist, or can be handled by killing everyone.


Well what can we do :shrug:?? I recognize alot of things that could potentially drive me out and/or kill me but it's not possible to be prepared for every single possibility. If 200 people come charging into my farm then I'm toast. But they will quickly run through everything I have in about an afternoon and eventually starve or move on.

I'll be the first to admit it, I really don't know the answer :shrug:


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## trulytricia (Oct 11, 2002)

GREENCOUNTYPETE said:


> while we have a ton of dairy , more cows than people , they will only see a few the rest will be a rotted stench, without automated milkers and workers to run them, without machinery to move the massive amounts of feed or in some cases even the electricity to open the huge overhead doors on the dairy or run the air exchange system, if they can't milk for 48 hours it won't be good
> 
> now if they could assign a person to every 2 cows and get them out of the confinement barns and milk them twice a day , the person would be fairly well set with milk , but that would mean every able bodied person in the county would have to take over 2 cows milking ,grazing would be possible till the snow covers




Yep. I just had this conversation with my daughter. If the power ever goes down there is really nothing in place to take care of farms. 
Can you imagine trying to immediately organize people to milk cows? And the mastitis that would happen?

Whatever food is around would go fast, there's really not much.

The only thing better about the countryside is there are less people.


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## Sawmill Jim (Dec 5, 2008)

Good thing we an't up against a main border for the masses to enter a perceived safe place . My area it would be more random roamers I would think .If this be the case most would go for the low hanging fruit .Ie if you have the razor wire and the place looks like a strong fort many will hunt easier pickings .

Some must think removing their welcome mat off the front porch is getting prepared for war .:bash:


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## Sourdough (Dec 28, 2011)

And that will make a massive difference, in both quality of existence and probability of survival.



trulytricia said:


> The only thing better about the countryside is there are less people.


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## elkhound (May 30, 2006)

being anchored in a boat in a remote bay surrounded by 40 f water helps alot too....40f water is better than a castle wall.


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## kasilofhome (Feb 10, 2005)

elkhound said:


> being anchored in a boat in a remote bay surrounded by 40 f water helps alot too....40f water is better than a castle wall.


Yet, many stranded in fleeing via boat... die.


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## Oldshep (Mar 28, 2015)

Just thinking about this today as I went about my chores and I figure there are three options;

1. Repell the invaders

2. Make a fast escape

3. Take some in

All three have potential pit falls and advantages. Trying to repell a large group might get you killed. Then they get your place anyway, and maybe do bad things to your loved ones...OR you repell them, keep everything and live on.

Having an escape plan works initially but where do you go? And what happens when THAT place gets overrun? Do you keep running, getting more and more desperate until you find yourself outside some other family's farm, demanding entrance??

Finally, one solution might be to take some people in. More hands make light work, and more people means defense of your land becomes more do-able. But do factions and clicks form? Do they begin undermining you and challenging your ownership? Do you lose your farm from the inside in such a scenario?

I think people throughout history have wrestled with these issues even long before "the barbarians were at the gates" of ancient Rome. I dont think there has ever been one single strategy or answer. Maybe you just do what you think is right for yourself and your family at the time based on your best judgement. Then you keep making the best decisions you can at every step and hope things work out.


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## Astrid (Nov 13, 2010)

If they can actually get to our island they will find miles of nothing before they get to us. And then only by skiff. At that point there will be a number of lead spitters trained on them.


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## NEfarmgirl (Jan 27, 2009)

We have discussed those three options and we are in the process of getting a storage container to bury on the property. The plan is to have access from the house through a tunnel underground and have an escape to the outside of needed, but try to not make it obvious. We have found the perfect spot to put it and no one would be the wiser. I wish we would have started this sooner. I think in reality, there would not be a lot of time to assess the situation even if you thought you were prepared. If you try to put together different senarios of how you would react, I think you would have a better chance of survival. If A doesn't look like it will work or isn't go to B type thinking instead of having one plan and wondering what to do if it doesn't work.


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## Sawmill Jim (Dec 5, 2008)

I'm going for #1 We are to old and no where to go :cowboy: We got all we need here if we can hold it .Should we be forced to leave don't look back you might just turn into a pillar of salt .If we can't use what we worked for nobody else is either eep:


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## Ozarks Tom (May 27, 2011)

Sawmill Jim said:


> I'm going for #1 We are to old and no where to go :cowboy: We got all we need here if we can hold it .Should we be forced to leave don't look back you might just turn into a pillar of salt .If we can't use what we worked for nobody else is either eep:


We're pretty much in the same situation, but do have some possibilities for defense, in that our property's layout is considerably more defensible than some of our like minded neighbors. In a SchumerHTF situation we'd likely have several families congregating here.


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## mustangglp (Jul 7, 2015)

Sourdough said:


> If you read carefully some of the posts in this thread........some are NOT coming to grips with over FOUR MILLION refugees just invaded Europe, and it is not over.
> 
> Many of us here on this forum and many other forums are proud of how we have worked to provide for those we love. But guns and razor wire is not slowing down MILLIONS invading Europe.
> 
> To me this is the issue that preppers want to pretend does not exist, or can be handled by killing everyone.


There is about 11 million in los Angeles that plan on heading for the Sierra's :runforhills:


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## GREENCOUNTYPETE (Jul 25, 2006)

trulytricia said:


> Yep. I just had this conversation with my daughter. If the power ever goes down there is really nothing in place to take care of farms.
> Can you imagine trying to immediately organize people to milk cows? And the mastitis that would happen?
> 
> Whatever food is around would go fast, there's really not much.
> ...


2/3 of a years food is sitting in the bunkers , a mountain of feed , or haylage bags hundreds of feet long , but without equipment to move it we would be back to the days of a herd of farm laborers and wheel barrows 

the irony is that even the Amish here have Skidloaders because all the hay gets put in the big rectangles or round bales and you need a skid steer loader or tractor to move them 

I have a friend with a beef heard , he would have feed on hand for some time , and be a hole lot better off that the large automated farms , but while he would be doing well with beef , pork , layers and meat chickens and he has moved his round bales much closer to the barn after the deep snow we had 2 years ago , it took them much longer to feed in the morning when they had only one tractor that could make it through the snow to get to the round bales , the skid steer that he would normally use would get stuck in the snow , there were new drifts every day so a large wheel tractor was how they went back but it was much slower going


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## Red_Leg (Apr 13, 2015)

Sourdough said:


> If you read carefully some of the posts in this thread........some are NOT coming to grips with over FOUR MILLION refugees just invaded Europe, and it is not over.
> 
> Many of us here on this forum and many other forums are proud of how we have worked to provide for those we love. But guns and razor wire is not slowing down MILLIONS invading Europe.
> 
> To me this is the issue that preppers want to pretend does not exist, or can be handled by killing everyone.


As far as I know, not one round has been fired in the direction of the refugees. They are also being provided with food and water. Should either of those things change the situation will be entirely different.


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## kasilofhome (Feb 10, 2005)

Rubber bullets were authorized to use and were publicly noted that they were used to gain control of mob behaviour to prevent violence and negative successfully... it was not merited with much new excitement.

I wonder if that choice could save city infrastructure in America with any angry mobs. To prevent.looting. rioting, the burning of public and private structures.

http://www.bing.com/news/search?q=H...ungery+rubber+bullets+refugees+2015&FORM=EWRE
News about Hungery Rubber Bullets Refugees 2015
bing.com/news
Police fire rubber bullets at refugees after violence erupts
Police fire rubber bullets at refugees after violence erupts
ITV Â· 5 days ago
Police fired rubber bullets at refugees and migrants in a detention centre in the Spanish city of Valencia after dozens tried to escape, local media has&#8230;
Swiss police fire rubber bullets during pro-refugee protest in Zurich (VIDEO)
RT Â· 6 days ago
European Commission plans to ask Spain to take at least 15,000 refugees fleeing to Europe
Latino FOX News Â· 4 days ago


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## sisterpine (May 9, 2004)

I have been watching and thinking about all those Syrian refugees seeking shelter in multiple countries. Israel says they wont take any in and I understand that. Countries like Greece, Spain and others are so close to collapse the thought of feeding and sheltering an extra 500K people must just about make them wet themselves!


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## farmerDale (Jan 8, 2011)

They would first have to walk a very, very long way to get here. And then they would find nothing. There is nothing out here. I suggest they travel south, there is nothing for them here...

:cowboy:


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## oldasrocks (Oct 27, 2006)

We live near a small town of 6,000. The countryside is mainly broke up into 1 to 5 acre sites. There is a high percentage of poor people here on the dole. Local unemployment is around 18%. During an ice storm and multiple day electric outage the majority of people headed for the city.

People have been trained to think the guberment will take care of their every need. I don't see many mobs walking the countryside if an EMP would hit. Very few are in a physical shape to walk far anywhere. A 10 or more mile walk by hungry people who probably don't even have a water bottle will thin them out fast.

There will be a few young bucks thinking they can rob the vacant places like they did in the ice storm. They were met here by an angry wife with a 12 gauge.

Stories of the immigrants walking 300 miles are subject to interpretation. They must be a tough bunch to arrive looking so good in clean clothes and still have cell phone time left.

If an EMP hits pile your TV and computers etc out by the front gate with a For Sale sign. They'll grab that stuff and run off fast-snicker.


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## SCRancher (Jan 11, 2011)

I have 2.5 million people in a metro area to the north of me and 800k in the metro area south of me. By car both take about 40 minutes to get to my area which is slightly closer to the 2.5 million people. Traffic congestion is what makes the difference in travel time.

I'm less than 5 miles from the Interstate.

While I have enough on-hoof to easily feed my family and don't really see having a problem overwintering them even without machinery since we don't really have much of a winter.

Weather would not obviously be my problem - it would be the hords coming from the too close metro areas.

So:
Repel - yea not likely with just my family and close by neighbors.

Escape - to where? With millions of people close by there is nowhere to escape too

Take Some in - Yes that is the only way I see making it. If in the end I get "out voted" on my own land by someone I have taken in then well hopefully I will at least survive the transition. Taking in a couple of dozen is possible - housing in the barn loft and workshop as well as the house. Winter is survivable here with shelter and some warm clothing.

They would need to bring some assets with them.

A friend of mine said he would join the roamers and take what he wanted from others 0.o so there are people who's SHTF plan is to come take your stuff. He's ex military.


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## Lazerus (Apr 23, 2015)

If they're willing to work to help produce food, etc, they're quite welcome here. I guess I could use about 12 full-time sharer/helpers. The more folks that had something to lose, the more protection they would afford, too.


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## Sanza (Sep 8, 2008)

I feel the same way about being so far north there is not much to worry about. There are only 2 big towns and a few Indian reserves north of here, but I believe these people would be high tailing it south to the big cities before they run out of gas.
Everyone here has outside guard/ guardian dogs and weapons ...
Lots of beef in this area, with thousands of uninhabited acres only a couple miles away to hide them on, and most households stock a years worth of food til next harvest.


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## thestartupman (Jul 25, 2010)

For those that think they would bring in a dozen or so people to help with the chores, in exchange for security, have you thought how you would feed that many? If a event took place this very day, have you stopped to see where you are at, and how you are setting for your own food, and also enough food for a dozen more people. It is pretty much the end of the garden season. Have you put up enough to last you and a dozen others until the next harvest? Do you have already have extra of the basic food stored up for a dozen extra people (Rice, Beans, Canned meats, ect..)? I know many have said they have plenty of meat on the hoof, have you ran through the sinario of how often you would be butchering an animal to provide for a extra dozen people? For most, there wouldn't be any freezers, or fridges to keep the meat fresh, have you thought about what you are going to do then? Hmmm, maybe can the meat, or smoke it? Have you already practice doing these things? Do you at least have the information on how to do these things on paper? Do you have enough canning jars to even consider putting up the extra meat? Just some things to think about.


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## thestartupman (Jul 25, 2010)

For those that think they are going to just start shooting lead at people, have you stopped to think that not all of these people that m ight show up will be a angry mob? Maybe it is a father and mother carrying a toddler in each of their arms, and another older child walking along behind them? Maybe it is a sixty to eighty year old couple that don't have the means to provide for their selves? Hmmm, just start tossing lead? Maybe it is just a group of young children that have lost their parents somehow because of the events taking place. The answer is just mow them down with lead? Somehow I don't think it will be so easy for many situations.


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## Oldshep (Mar 28, 2015)

I still believe that we live so far from the nearest large town, that hordes of crazed city people invading our farm is very unlikely. Could happen but doubtful. They'd have to go through 2 mountain ranges and two hundred miles in order to get here and if it's winter, forget it they'll never make it. What is definitely alot MORE likely are locals, who are unprepared and have nothing, will try to steal from us.

We might get into a squabble, maybe a shooting, and then we are in a blood feud. We are surrounded on all sides by deep woods with our pasture, water, house and gardens in the middle. That means anyone can snipe me from just about any direction. I don't see any way to defend against that. I'm just going to do my best no matter what happens in life. We're all going to die sometime from something, I can't spend what life I have worrying about how to avoid the inevitable.


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## trulytricia (Oct 11, 2002)

I no longer have the strong body of my youth. But there is plenty of how to info in my brain. I could do wonders right here on this land if people would just follow my instructions. Hahaha. I couldn't even get my own husband to listen to me!


I do agree the locals would be the problem. Even a tiny town of a thousand people, well that's a lot to feed.


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## Sawmill Jim (Dec 5, 2008)

thestartupman said:


> For those that think they are going to just start shooting lead at people, have you stopped to think that not all of these people that m ight show up will be a angry mob? Maybe it is a father and mother carrying a toddler in each of their arms, and another older child walking along behind them? Maybe it is a sixty to eighty year old couple that don't have the means to provide for their selves? Hmmm, just start tossing lead? Maybe it is just a group of young children that have lost their parents somehow because of the events taking place. The answer is just mow them down with lead? Somehow I don't think it will be so easy for many situations.


Might be a good reason to build a good fence now .Others lack of preparedness don't need to become my emergency . :bandwagon:


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## Darren (May 10, 2002)

I just don't see "hordes" getting too far. We have recent examples being Sandy and Kristina that show many suffer in place. Some get out of Dodge with a place to go early enough to avoid nature.

It's counter intuitive that people who have been suburban and city dwellers all of their lives are going to do anything but expect the feds and FEMA to ride to the rescue.


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## TnAndy (Sep 15, 2005)

Oldshep said:


> What is definitely alot MORE likely are locals, who are unprepared and have nothing, will try to steal from us.


Yeah, what I call "The Bubba Factor". 

Bubba lives down the road, has wife/2-4kids (couple his, couple hers), grows nothing, has nothing put away, (but does have Sat TV, and a jacked up pickup truck with over sized tires) and does have an old rusty 30-30 and 1/2 box of shells.

Bubba comes 'maybe' asking the first time, and taking the second time, probably after dark.


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## Sawmill Jim (Dec 5, 2008)

TnAndy said:


> Yeah, what I call "The Bubba Factor".
> 
> Bubba lives down the road, has wife/2-4kids (couple his, couple hers), grows nothing, has nothing put away, (but does have Sat TV, and a jacked up pickup truck with over sized tired) and does have an old rusty 30-30 and 1/2 box of shells.
> 
> Bubba comes 'maybe' asking the first time, and taking the second time, probably after dark.


Then everyone that wasn't prepared either gets up in arms because you shot Bubba's grits off :cowboy:


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## Sourdough (Dec 28, 2011)

Shoot
Shovel
Shut-up




Sawmill Jim said:


> Then everyone that wasn't prepared either gets up in arms because you shot Bubba's grits off :cowboy:


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## susieneddy (Sep 2, 2011)

SCRancher said:


> A friend of mine said he would join the roamers and take what he wanted from others 0.o so there are people who's SHTF plan is to come take your stuff. He's ex military.


lets hope he is a really good friend or he may try to take your stuff


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## TnAndy (Sep 15, 2005)

Sourdough said:


> Shoot
> Shovel
> Shut-up


Normally, I'd agree, but I think Jim is right.

Unfortunately, Bubba came back from the 'asking' cussing ole Andy because Andy sent him home with little or nothing....or worse, suggested he split a pile of wood in exchange for food......and he "knows" Andy has stuff, and "by D:flame: he IS gonna share, cause I got kids to feed."

So when Bubba doesn't return after the second time, every other Bubba knows what happened.....and they all get righteously indignant, and set out to do in ole Andy.

Unfortunately for Bubba, he already let slip (thru his kids) his plans....not to prep, but to take by force of arms whatever he needs.....so Bubba has already given up the tactical advantage of surprise. Bubbba, and friends, are already on my "to do" list. Hope it never comes to it, but as another neighbor said to me "You KNOW some of 'em are gonna have to be shot, right ?"


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## Oldshep (Mar 28, 2015)

Sawmill Jim said:


> Then everyone that wasn't prepared either gets up in arms because you shot Bubba's grits off :cowboy:


Sure because, around here anyway, Bubba is related to half the town. You just made enemies you never even met.


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## Bellyman (Jul 6, 2013)

A poor appearance might be helpful. If you look rich, it would seem like you'd be a target because you might have food or clothing or fuel or money or gold or something else they can use, along with a lot of stuff they might want but wouldn't do them any good (tvs, computers, xboxes). They're less likely to want the tired and worn old clothes you're wearing but if you're wearing a $500 leather biker jacket, they might not hesitate trading a bullet for it. 

Hidden storage might also be a good thing, as in hidden well enough that it wouldn't be easily found. Could be an underground bunker with a special entrance in the basement that's not obvious. Or could be under the floor of the garage. Or numerous other places. Keep enough food out for a day or two but not much more. Give the appearance that you're just about out yourself and don't have any more when that's gone. If someone wants it, give it to 'em. They probably won't want to stick around if that's all there is and they probably don't want you following along with them either.

I'm not of a mind to try to start shooting everything that moves. I'm way more inclined to do my best to make myself the smallest target I can. "Not worth stopping here." 

People dream about surviving the ultimate challenges. It's the stuff Rambo movies are made of. But at the end of the day, I'm approaching my "retirement years" and any delusions of heroism don't resemble Rambo anymore. I'll do the best I can with what I have to work with and if my end should come a little sooner, so be it. I'm of the opinion that there is a life beyond this one and that may color my perspective significantly.


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## Darren (May 10, 2002)

TnAndy said:


> Yeah, what I call "The Bubba Factor".
> 
> Bubba lives down the road, has wife/2-4kids (couple his, couple hers), grows nothing, has nothing put away, (but does have Sat TV, and a jacked up pickup truck with over sized tires) and does have an old rusty 30-30 and 1/2 box of shells.
> 
> Bubba comes 'maybe' asking the first time, and taking the second time, probably after dark.


The "Bubbas" are well known around here. Odds are there would be quite a few "hunting" accidents at the first asking. In one long ago incident the thief was riddled with rifle and shotgun loads by five or six individuals after they got out of the vehicle they were caught trying to steal.. The local sheriff said it was an accident. 

Other "hunting" accidents have involved trespassing and women. The worse sentence anyone got by killing someone over a woman was misdemeanor manslaughter. All the others were acquittals if the case went to a jury.


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## Sawmill Jim (Dec 5, 2008)

Bellyman said:


> A poor appearance might be helpful. If you look rich, it would seem like you'd be a target because you might have food or clothing or fuel or money or gold or something else they can use, along with a lot of stuff they might want but wouldn't do them any good (tvs, computers, xboxes). They're less likely to want the tired and worn old clothes you're wearing but if you're wearing a $500 leather biker jacket, they might not hesitate trading a bullet for it.
> 
> Hidden storage might also be a good thing, as in hidden well enough that it wouldn't be easily found. Could be an underground bunker with a special entrance in the basement that's not obvious. Or could be under the floor of the garage. Or numerous other places. Keep enough food out for a day or two but not much more. Give the appearance that you're just about out yourself and don't have any more when that's gone. If someone wants it, give it to 'em. They probably won't want to stick around if that's all there is and they probably don't want you following along with them either.
> 
> ...


You don't have to be a Rambo to survive .Being in the country helps ,that way you can fortify the place without look to odd. Here we don't over prune our yard ,look poorer than a church mouse ,but we got plenty of food and guns .

Proverbs 22-3 The prudent see danger and take refuge, but the simple keep going and pay the penalty.


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## mamagoose (Nov 28, 2003)

thestartupman said:


> Do you have enough canning jars to even consider putting up the extra meat? Just some things to think about.


jars are one thing, make sure you have new LIDS and extra canner seals


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## Spinner (Jul 19, 2003)

Trees. Not the kind that provide fruit, mostly pine and a little bit of hardwood around the edges. 

There used to be a lot of cattle, but most have gone broke and sold off their herds after several years of drought. 

Things are getting tough all over. If the hoards come, they better like pine bark cause these are not the kind that grow pine nuts.


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## shelljo (Feb 1, 2005)

feedlots. wheat fields. Elevators that might be full of grain--depending on the time of year. but, no water. Most windmills have been replaced by solar wells, so depending on the crisis, there might not be access to water.


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