# The new Bruce Jenner or should I say Caitlyn



## painterswife

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbi...busty-basque-underwear-cover-Vanity-Fair.html

Bruce Jenner has been unveiled as a woman on the cover of Vanity Fair. 

The 65-year-old former decathlete is wearing a silky white basque, which reveals the results of Jenner's recent breast implant surgery.


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## haley1

he did a music video with the village people back in the late 70's..... think he spent too muh time with them? 

[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GmoUEX1Rd44[/ame]


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## MO_cows

I feel bad for his Olympic competitors. Now they know they got beat by a girl!


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## Irish Pixie

painterswife said:


> http://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbi...busty-basque-underwear-cover-Vanity-Fair.html
> 
> Bruce Jenner has been unveiled as a woman on the cover of Vanity Fair.
> 
> The 65-year-old former decathlete is wearing a silky white basque, which reveals the results of Jenner's recent breast implant surgery.


Good for her. I'm glad she can finally be who she was born to be.

I don't think I could ever be that brave.


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## Jokarva

Wish I looked that good, lol.

I admire the courage this took, and if she says this is her true self, then who am I to question?


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## 7thswan

haley1 said:


> he did a music video with the village people back in the late 70's..... think he spent too muh time with them?
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GmoUEX1Rd44


Did he have a nose job way back then?


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## emdeengee

haley1 said:


> he did a music video with the village people back in the late 70's..... think he spent too muh time with them?
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GmoUEX1Rd44


 If you are snidely inferring that time with them turned him gay then No because he is not a gay man. He/She is a woman's soul born into a man's body. Only some of the Village People were gay.


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## Forcast

so was she a lesbian when with her wives, and now is she a gaymale cant thing what the term for gay man is? Any what would she have a relationship with man?


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## poppy

I think he/she is an it. A little of both and not enough of either.


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## Jokarva

She said in her interview that she was always attracted to women, but as she's aged is pretty much asexual.


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## arabian knight




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## Jolly

Two guys, 300 hours of computer time and the best airbrush program on the planet, and they can't do any better than that?


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## farmerDale

If you are born with testicles and a penis, you are a he. Ovaries and a vagina, you are a she. This world is so messed up, and I am frankly getting fed up and sick of the sickness out there.


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## chamoisee

Gender isn't as cut and dried as we like to think it is. I'm sort of surprised to hear these perspectives from farmers, who've seen freemartins, hermaphrodites, intersexed animals, etc. http://is.gd/G1ckze


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## chamoisee

Back to the topic at hand, I think Caitlyn looks very good, considering her age and the fact that she's still recently transitioned. Over time, she will continue to change. It can take years for HRT to manifest fully.


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## chamoisee

Another link about biology and gender. 

http://is.gd/6VHcpq


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## Shrek

He has the money to do whatever he chooses. Whatever works for him/her and his family.

Although tired of all the media saturation on it, I guess its good for the company that makes Wheaties.

Imagine all the jokes about the additives in the cereal if Bruce had just disappeared on a vacation to an undisclosed location and then surfaced as a woman a few years later.

I have no idea how folks wired mentally/genetically like that are motivated and really don't care as I know I like how I am and GF is.

The only thing about the gender change part of the gay folks I am still trying to figure out is a couple I first met when I was a teenager where the wife was hetero and the husband went the gender change path after coming out of the closet and divorcing his wife.

Years after he had himself turned a she, the gender bended she hooked up with the ex wife again and those of us who knew of them started trying to sort it out and it went along the line of :

He and she fell in love in the 1950s, got married , had three kids and were a hetero couple through the 1960s into the late 1970s when he decided he was gay and having the money to finance it ,decided to go gender swap and divorce his wife and after becoming a woman, hooked up with a guy so technically was back to hetero, then decided to leave the guy to get back with ex wife from before the gender change but she wasn't becoming a he again.

Even though same sex marriage was not recognized in the state where they lived , I think they were able to remarry because of the original hetero marriage and the gender changed she still being a male on her birth certificate.

When one of the guys asked me if I thought them getting back together made them both gay, all I could say was all I knew was they both seemed happy.

They have since both passed on and one of the girls I went to school with said she saw their graves near her grandparents grave plot years ago and the couple's headstone shows them both passed in the 1990s with female names but listed as husband and wife on the grave marker long before same sex marriage in that state. :shrug:


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## chamoisee

The reason for the confusion is that people confuse *transgender* with *gay*. They are not the same thing. Some gay men might seem more effeminate, and some lesbian women are butch, but generally, they would react with horror if you asked them if they thought of themselves as the other gender. In fact, some of the worst opponents of transwomen, are lesbian feminists! 

There are exceptions, but typically, a transgender person's sexual orientation remains the same before, during, and after their transition to the gender that they have always felt themselves to be. So if your friend was born male, fell in love with a woman he married, realized he was a woman trapped in a man's body, transitioned to female, etc...he is still attracted to women. He was perceived as a straight man before, will now be perceived as a lesbian woman. 

It is incredibly difficult, painful, and expensive to transition. Many are not able to, and many succumb to the hatred around them, turning it inwards and committing suicide. I am on a support group online, and you would not believe the pain and despair. These people do not choose to be this way. It isn't a freak show. You might not understand, but try to have some compassion and be glad it didn't happen to you. :-(


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## AngieM2

Actually, I think she (he) looks remarkably good for all s/he's been thru.


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## farmerDale

chamoisee said:


> Gender isn't as cut and dried as we like to think it is. I'm sort of surprised to hear these perspectives from farmers, who've seen freemartins, hermaphrodites, intersexed animals, etc. http://is.gd/G1ckze


Many farmers are salt of the earth people. I live in farming country, I do business with farmers, and I do not know a single farmer I live near and deal with, who would think Bruce and HIS decision is normal, or even close to normal. Many of us believe in the Bible. "Male and female, He made them", comes to mind.

He can do whatever he wants. That does not make it right, natural, or normal. Normalizing this kind of behavior is not an admirable goal, and it will get society no where good.

The animal problems you mention are genetic freaks of nature, physically. So far as I know, this man was born with man parts, not a blend, or a mix.

I respectfully disagree, gender most certainly IS cut and dried. It is as clear as can be. God did not create the male, the female, as well as the grossly confused. The grossly confused made it this way themselves, or with the help of prior abuse or family breakdown.

Mixed up, and mentally troubled people, or the abused souls, who mess with the gender they were born as, refusing to be the male or the female they were made as? Honestly, I have no idea. All I know is it is completely MESSED UP.

All I know, is I am glad my kids are farm kids, far removed from this garbage of today's world. But I am sad about the world that the politically correct set is forcing us all to leave them with. Normalizing things that are most certainly not normal, is a part of what I see as our ultimate downfall, along with all other forms of sinfulness.

We can all be thankful we live in a society of free choice. I and most people who agree with me, have as much right to think these things are NOT normal and strange as heck, as the very few do who think it is ALL THAT and more, do we not?

I guess I am as confused as MR. Jenner.

BTW, I DO NOT think he looks good, or cool, or anything like attractive. AT ALL. I am glad that he says he is free and happy, even if it is not possibly true.

Anyway, going out to feed my male and female sheep.


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## 7thswan

Jolly said:


> Two guys, 300 hours of computer time and the best airbrush program on the planet, and they can't do any better than that?


Ya, I wounder what he really looks like now. Not that I care, but what they do with airbrush/photoshop is amazing. I don't understand why he wants to be in the media or even all the medical "work". He could have just lived his life doing/being what he wants. Trying to change his body meens nothing, his head still knows he's a man. Do your job, hobbys, be a grandparent, there is so much in life that has nothing to do with gender.


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## MichaelZ

I hang my hat on what the Bible has to say on this matter, in spite of how increasingly unpopular that seems to be:

_1 Cor 6:9
Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor homosexuals, nor thieves, nor the covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers, will inherit the kingdom of God . . ._


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## doozie

I don't know why the media or even Jenner feels the need to get out there and tell everyone what is going on. I am sure a book will follow...
I could care less and really try hard not to judge it.

I have a nephew I have hear through the grapevine that is going through the process, I have tried to wrap my head around it, thought about his childhood, his wife, and why now, he is about 40, it is like he just woke up one morning and decided to try this, as far as I know, but I am sure there is something much deeper going on. 
I have very negative feelings about it all. I do see it as maiming oneself, and wonder after all is done, will it really will bring him the happiness he thinks he is going to get.


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## arabian knight

There are programs to "redact" things from documents (ie: a minor's name from a police report/court documents). I would pay a LOT of money for a similar program that could "redact" the words *"Jenner"*, "Kardashian" and "Duggar" (among others) from media!


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## beowoulf90

I truly don't care want the Jenner's do.. They cna be what ever they want..

I have only one question.

Why all the media hype?

Is it because they want it to seem like more people do this then the reality of it is only a small percentage?
Or is it that the media doesn't want to cover the real issues?

All I know is that according to the studies that I've read, approx. 20% of transgenders commit suicide or seriously consider it..
I know I'm not judging the Jenner's, because that is between them and their maker.
But don't lie to me and tell me it's "normal" or more prevalent then it truly is..
We all have problems. The difference is most of us deal with them and move on, but not these media prostitutes...

As I said I don't care what you do it private, but the minute you "force" it on me by constant media coverage, I now have an issue..
Too me this is no different then if every media story had a biblical slant... 
I'll bet all those who support this media hype would have a cow if every story was about Christianity.. They would be crying about religion being forced on them.. Well to me this in no different..


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## Tricky Grama

I have a lot of sympathy for folks who go thru this. It must be a tormented life.
Prayers.


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## emdeengee

Forcast said:


> so was she a lesbian when with her wives, and now is she a gaymale cant thing what the term for gay man is? Any what would she have a relationship with man?


Lesbian? - Possibly that would be the classification if you need to classify it at all. I tend to think more along the lines of asexual which many people are. Asexual means low sexual interest but that does not mean no sex. Besides marriage or any relationship is more than just sex. For some if you can't be the person you want to be or really are then you be the person you have to be. Acceptance of transgenders is new. It is certain that as Bruce he tried to live a conventional life and did so successfully but at a definite cost to his true self.


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## wr

beowoulf90 said:


> I truly don't care want the Jenner's do.. They cna be what ever they want..
> 
> I have only one question.
> 
> Why all the media hype?
> 
> Is it because they want it to seem like more people do this then the reality of it is only a small percentage?
> Or is it that the media doesn't want to cover the real issues?
> 
> All I know is that according to the studies that I've read, approx. 20% of transgenders commit suicide or seriously consider it..
> I know I'm not judging the Jenner's, because that is between them and their maker.
> But don't lie to me and tell me it's "normal" or more prevalent then it truly is..
> We all have problems. The difference is most of us deal with them and move on, but not these media prostitutes...
> 
> As I said I don't care what you do it private, but the minute you "force" it on me by constant media coverage, I now have an issue..
> Too me this is no different then if every media story had a biblical slant...
> I'll bet all those who support this media hype would have a cow if every story was about Christianity.. They would be crying about religion being forced on them.. Well to me this in no different..


Being an Olympic athlete and being associated with the Kardashian family as well as tabloid speculation, really left him with no option to respond publicly. 

When I think of normal, I think of something large percentage of the population does so I wouldn't consider it normal but I wouldn't have contempt somebody for doing what they feel is right for them.


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## Elffriend

7thswan said:


> Trying to change his body meens nothing, his head still knows he's a man.


You've completely missed the point. Her whole life her head has been telling her she is female. She is now trying to make her body match what her brain has always known.


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## Michael W. Smith

7thswan said:


> Ya, I wonder what he really looks like now. Not that I care, but what they do with airbrush/photoshop is amazing.


Bruce/Caitlyn is 65 years old. Take a look at the photo on Vanity Fair - not one wrinkle, not one blemish.

I realize that plastic surgery can do alot - but even surgery can't erase 65 years of living. It would be nice to know how many hours someone is in "makeup" getting it layered on for their photo shoots / tv shows.

And with a magazine cover, photo shop, air brushing, the whole nine yards - even the ugliest person can be made to look beautiful.

And the opposite is also true - Hollywood can take the most beautiful person in the world and turn them into a monster.

See, that's the thing people forget. Everyone raves about how beautiful - so and so is, or how handsome so and so is. Take all the make up off, and those people are suddenly - the "average" looking person - or in some cases - downright ugly.


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## 7thswan

Elffriend said:


> You've completely missed the point. Her whole life her head has been telling her she is female. She is now trying to make her body match what her brain has always known.


They Hope. Really can a woman know for sure what it feels like to be a man, or visa,versa?Enough to say-I am exactly the opposite of what my body is? Is it really worth it to change your body? He might have just thought all would be better if he changed his sex. You know, the ol, grass is greener...
I haven't missed the point at all. Loosing my breasts will not make me less of a woman. Some women have issues when they can no longer have children, because of age... So , I'm kinda compairing this whole body image thing to just being happy with who you are as a person,you know, your Soul.


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## poppy

Michael W. Smith said:


> Bruce/Caitlyn is 65 years old. Take a look at the photo on Vanity Fair - not one wrinkle, not one blemish.
> 
> I realize that plastic surgery can do alot - but even surgery can't erase 65 years of living. It would be nice to know how many hours someone is in "makeup" getting it layered on for their photo shoots / tv shows.
> 
> And with a magazine cover, photo shop, air brushing, the whole nine yards - even the ugliest person can be made to look beautiful.
> 
> And the opposite is also true - Hollywood can take the most beautiful person in the world and turn them into a monster.
> 
> See, that's the thing people forget. Everyone raves about how beautiful - so and so is, or how handsome so and so is. Take all the make up off, and those people are suddenly - the "average" looking person - or in some cases - downright ugly.


True. I saw a recent photo of him somewhere and he looks nothing like the magazine cover. I'm sure that took a lot of makeup and photoshopping.


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## 7thswan

Michael W. Smith said:


> Bruce/Caitlyn is 65 years old. Take a look at the photo on Vanity Fair - not one wrinkle, not one blemish.
> 
> I realize that plastic surgery can do alot - but even surgery can't erase 65 years of living. It would be nice to know how many hours someone is in "makeup" getting it layered on for their photo shoots / tv shows.
> 
> And with a magazine cover, photo shop, air brushing, the whole nine yards - even the ugliest person can be made to look beautiful.
> 
> And the opposite is also true - Hollywood can take the most beautiful person in the world and turn them into a monster.
> 
> See, that's the thing people forget. Everyone raves about how beautiful - so and so is, or how handsome so and so is. Take all the make up off, and those people are suddenly - the "average" looking person - or in some cases - downright ugly.


For sure. And "beauty" isn't all it's cracked up to be.


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## JeffreyD

wr said:


> Being an Olympic athlete and being associated with the Kardashian family as well as tabloid speculation, really left him with no option to respond publicly.
> 
> When I think of normal, I think of something large percentage of the population does so I wouldn't consider it normal but I wouldn't have contempt somebody for doing what they feel is right for them.


Pedophiles do what they feel is right for them, your ok with that? (I don't think you are, but your post doesn't make a distinction)


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## JeffreyD

Elffriend said:


> You've completely missed the point. Her whole life her head has been telling her she is female. She is now trying to make her body match what her brain has always known.


Maybe Bruce got hit in the head at an early age and needs to be hit again to "straighten" him out!


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## beowoulf90

wr said:


> Being an Olympic athlete and being associated with the Kardashian family as well as tabloid speculation, really left him with no option to respond publicly.
> 
> When I think of normal, I think of something large percentage of the population does so I wouldn't consider it normal but I wouldn't have contempt somebody for doing what they feel is right for them.



My contempt isn't so much with what they do.. It is why shove it in my face every hour..

If any religion did this liberals would be up in arms crying about how religion is being forced on them.. If a church puts a cross in the town square, all the atheists and some of the pagans start crying about a wrongly separation of church and state.. 
Yet I'm forced to put up with Jenner and the Kardasians constantly being shoved down my throat in the news.. I would tell them all to "grow a pair" but they would just cut them off in spite of themselves...

If Bruce wants to do that, then let Bruce do that..

But that doesn't mean the media has to constantly report it... 
Oh and you can easily say NO! to the media...

Next thing you know one of the them will get a pimple and it will be national news if not world news...

But I guess the worse thing of this who situation is just how easily it is to control the sheep.. Just give a false flag and watch how the media and the people eat it up.. They will constantly talk about it yada yada yada..

Some of us watching "the other hand" though and are saddened by the lack of care about what is truly happening..


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## Irish Pixie

Elffriend said:


> You've completely missed the point. Her whole life her head has been telling her she is female. She is now trying to make her body match what her brain has always known.


Excellent post, thank you.


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## painterswife

beowoulf90 said:


> My contempt isn't so much with what they do.. It is why shove it in my face every hour..
> 
> If any religion did this liberals would be up in arms crying about how religion is being forced on them.. If a church puts a cross in the town square, all the atheists and some of the pagans start crying about a wrongly separation of church and state..
> Yet I'm forced to put up with Jenner and the Kardasians constantly being shoved down my throat in the news.. I would tell them all to "grow a pair" but they would just cut them off in spite of themselves...
> 
> If Bruce wants to do that, then let Bruce do that..
> 
> But that doesn't mean the media has to constantly report it...
> Oh and you can easily say NO! to the media...
> 
> Next thing you know one of the them will get a pimple and it will be national news if not world news...
> 
> But I guess the worse thing of this who situation is just how easily it is to control the sheep.. Just give a false flag and watch how the media and the people eat it up.. They will constantly talk about it yada yada yada..
> 
> Some of us watching "the other hand" though and are saddened by the lack of care about what is truly happening..


Religion is, in your words, shoved in my face all the time.


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## Irish Pixie

poppy said:


> True. I saw a recent photo of him somewhere and he looks nothing like the magazine cover. I'm sure that took a lot of makeup and photoshopping.


All fashion magazine covers are photoshopped so heavily it's sometimes hard to tell who the model is... nothing new here.


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## beowoulf90

Elffriend said:


> You've completely missed the point. Her whole life her head has been telling her she is female. She is now trying to make her body match what her brain has always known.



As I stated earlier one of the studies I've read has transgenders at approx 20% suicide rate.. Why? from my understanding some things just can't be undone...

It has to do with the "grass being greener on the other side of the fence" complex..


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## Irish Pixie

JeffreyD said:


> Pedophiles do what they feel is right for them, your ok with that? (I don't think you are, but your post doesn't make a distinction)


Why do you do this? Not one person has mentioned pedophilia yet you drag it out. Is it because you think that that gay/transgendered means the person is a pedophile? You realize that most pedophiles are like you, right? Straight and white and male?


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## Bearfootfarm

arabian knight said:


> There are programs to "redact" things from documents (ie: a minor's name from a police report/court documents). I would pay a LOT of money for a similar program that could "redact" the words *"Jenner"*, "Kardashian" and "Duggar" (among others) from media!


No one forces you to read or watch any of the news about it.
I see nearly none of it at all


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## Bearfootfarm

JeffreyD said:


> Pedophiles do what they feel is right for them, your ok with that? (I don't think you are, but your post doesn't make a distinction)


You're comparing what someone does to someone ELSE to what Jenner did only to himself


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## JeffreyD

Irish Pixie said:


> Why do you do this? Not one person has mentioned pedophilia yet you drag it out. Is it because you think that that gay/transgendered means the person is a pedophile? You realize that most pedophiles are like you, right? Straight and white and male?


Why do you do this? You constantly take my quotes out of context? I responded to this quote from wr.

"I wouldn't have contempt for somebody for doing what feels right for them"

Are you accusing me of being a pedophile? That what I take away from your comment!


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## Bearfootfarm

> Are you accusing me of being a pedophile? That what I take away from your comment!


Read it again, slowly this time
(I'll make it easy):



> You realize that most pedophiles are *like you*, right? *Straight and white and male?*


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## wr

JeffreyD said:


> Pedophiles do what they feel is right for them, your ok with that? (I don't think you are, but your post doesn't make a distinction)


Why would my post need to make that distinction? I don't believe we were discussing pedophiles nor has there ever been any indication that Bruce Jenner has ever acted in such a way. 

Did you include your opinion on nubian goats and piedmontese cattle in your comment? After all, this might be important testimony at a later, unrelated date.

You're actually misinformed about pedophiles as well. Technically, not all people diagnosed as pedophiles act on their tendencies.


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## JeffreyD

wr said:


> Why would my post need to make that distinction? I don't believe we were discussing pedophiles nor has there ever been any indication that Bruce Jenner has ever acted in such a way.
> 
> Did you include your opinion on nubian goats and piedmontese cattle in your comment? After all, this might be important testimony at a later, unrelated date.
> 
> You're actually misinformed about pedophiles as well. Technically, not all people diagnosed as pedophiles act on their tendencies.


Well, you said this:

"When I think of normal, I think of something large percentage of the population does so I wouldn't consider it normal *but I wouldn't have contempt somebody for doing what they feel is right for them*."

There is no distinction about who you were referencing. It was a blanket statement. Where did i say all pedophiles act on their tendencies? I did say this:

"Pedophiles do what they feel is right for them, your ok with that?"

Does that mean they all act upon their urges? Im trying to figure out why what i say is so twisted around? :shrug:


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## Tricky Grama

wr said:


> Being an Olympic athlete and being associated with the Kardashian family as well as tabloid speculation, really left him with no option to respond publicly.
> 
> When I think of normal, I think of something large percentage of the population does so I wouldn't consider it normal but I wouldn't have contempt somebody for doing what they feel is right for them.


Wouldnt you think, too, that b/c he's a 'celebrity' he felt it his duty to let others in on what was going on...like someone said, hi rate of suicide among transgenders. Sad. 
I record wed eve O'Reilly b/c Dennis Miller's on. Bill asked him what he thought of all this...Dennis said he knows Jenner & he's a very nice guy. He expects Jenner to be a very nice gal as well.

Honestly, I don't get much of the 'circus' part of it, I fast forward or turn the channel if I'm tired of him/her.


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## wr

Tricky Grama said:


> Wouldnt you think, too, that b/c he's a 'celebrity' he felt it his duty to let others in on what was going on...like someone said, hi rate of suicide among transgenders. Sad.
> I record wed eve O'Reilly b/c Dennis Miller's on. Bill asked him what he thought of all this...Dennis said he knows Jenner & he's a very nice guy. He expects Jenner to be a very nice gal as well.


I do think he felt his celebrity could help others as well and anything I've heard about Jenner has all been very positive and favorable.


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## Shine

To a Christian, this is somewhat of an affront... You see - here is a person that says "Oh, look... God made a mistake but that's OK, I'm just going to fix it myself..."

It really doesn't matter what he/she/it does to themselves, I'm pretty sure I'm not going to get in trouble for it...


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## wr

JeffreyD said:


> Well, you said this:
> 
> "When I think of normal, I think of something large percentage of the population does so I wouldn't consider it normal *but I wouldn't have contempt somebody for doing what they feel is right for them*."
> 
> There is no distinction about who you were referencing. It was a blanket statement. Where did i say all pedophiles act on their tendencies? I did say this:
> 
> "Pedophiles do what they feel is right for them, your ok with that?"
> 
> Does that mean they all act upon their urges? Im trying to figure out why what i say is so twisted around? :shrug:


Perhaps your words are being 'twisted' because you're simply badgering. Comments related to this thread only so why do you desire to twist my words?

My response has nothing to do with pedophiles nor does it have anything to do with addicts, children crossing the street in crosswalks, street hockey, skinny dipping, chunky dunking, backyard breeders, oil prices, global warming, the catholic church or the price of tea in China. 

If you wish to twist words and search for hidden meanings in others, you can pretty much expect the same in return. Dontcha think?


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## DaleK

And the next step... "Trans-abled" http://www.nationalpost.com/m/wp/bl...-like-impostors-in-their-fully-working-bodies


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## preparing

Absurd, the world is upside down.


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## BlackFeather

Along time ago we had a female cat that couldn't have kittens, and my mother named her Christine Jorgensen, I suppose now I'll have to get a fixed female cat and call her Caitlyn Jenner to keep up the tradition.


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## plowjockey

I was surprise he/she changed so quick. Sometimes those plastic surgery jobs leave the patient looks bruised and battered like a losing MMA fighter.

Good for her.


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## plowjockey

Tricky Grama said:


> I have a lot of sympathy for folks who go thru this. It must be a tormented life.
> Prayers.


If people just accepted them, with love and some understanding, it would be much easier for them to do.

they could have a good life, just like everybody else.


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## poppy

DaleK said:


> And the next step... "Trans-abled" http://www.nationalpost.com/m/wp/bl...-like-impostors-in-their-fully-working-bodies


I guess since they feel that way and are harming no one but themselves, we will be expected to accept them for what they are, transintelligent.


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## Truckinguy

JeffreyD said:


> Well, you said this:
> 
> "When I think of normal, I think of something large percentage of the population does so I wouldn't consider it normal *but I wouldn't have contempt somebody for doing what they feel is right for them*."
> 
> There is no distinction about who you were referencing. It was a blanket statement. Where did i say all pedophiles act on their tendencies? I did say this:
> 
> "Pedophiles do what they feel is right for them, your ok with that?"
> 
> Does that mean they all act upon their urges? Im trying to figure out why what i say is so twisted around? :shrug:


I've typed and erased a few replies to this but I think pedophilia was an unnecessary and overly provocative addition to this conversation and any implication that wr would be ok with it is a bit puzzling.

Accepting someone who does something outside of what we would call normal is completely different from someone committing a crime against another person.


----------



## TxHorseMom

plowjockey said:


> If people just accepted them, with love and some understanding, it would be much easier for them to do.
> 
> they could have a good life, just like everybody else.


I also feel sorry for him. I don't agree with what he did, and I'm not going to give him warm fuzzies and call him brave, or a hero or any of that garbage. Personally, I think he needs psychiatric help, not mutilating surgery. He needs to get away from his crazy family. If he does end up committing suicide, and I sincerely hope he doesn't, it will be from realizing he made a huge mistake.


----------



## wr

Truckinguy said:


> I've typed and erased a few replies to this but I think pedophilia was an unnecessary and overly provocative addition to this conversation and any implication that wr would be ok with it is a bit puzzling.
> 
> Accepting someone who does something outside of what we would call normal is completely different from someone committing a crime against another person.


It's interesting that my comments, which were directed toward another person's specific comments would be taken out of context and then manipulated in that way but it has been suggested that one can tell another's political leanings by some of these things.


----------



## Old Vet

Hey if I wanted to see a 64 years old male dressed in women clothing all I would do is find some women clothing.ound:ound:ound:


----------



## rambler

I shall remember Bruce from his Olympic days. That is the reality I know.

I feel bad for anyone who has been tainted by the evil that is Kardashian. That has to take a terrible toll on anyone no matter how strong they are.

I feel pity for anyone as tormented and hateful towards themself to do such things to try to get away from themself. It is sad.

Air brushes, computers, and Photshop can do amazing things.

I find no reality in any of this.

Paul


Paul


----------



## wr

Old Vet said:


> Hey if I wanted to see a 64 years old male dressed in women clothing all I would do is find some women clothing.ound:ound:ound:


It's my understanding you can make quite a bit of money if you were to pose for Vanity Fair :rotfl:


----------



## kasilofhome

plowjockey said:


> If people just accepted them, with love and some understanding, it would be much easier for them to do.
> 
> they could have a good life, just like everybody else.





Understanding... I know what is being voluntarily exposed by him...I can offer no understanding or support.. why should I ...someone does something they want to and a requirement socially is that I show understanding... that is controlling,pushy and demanding...heck no 

Then again I'm not going to be able to show understanding.... 

Sure know that folks are hard up to just accept josh dugger, or show him love or understanding because that sexual deviance crosses a line some are allowed to keep and defend.... but homosexual, transgender we are told to accept.... 

There's still a sence that there's a line of right behavior but we allowed so many deviant behaviours that it is funny to hear the up roar against Josh. That's where the line has shifted to.


Pedophiles are the ultimate minority when will we show them love and understanding.... next week .... next year.... it will happen that's the road we as a nation have sign up to support.

Hey. Now we have trans-able folks who want surgery to make them disabled cause the feel they should have the right to live truly as a disabled person. They want to have limbs removed,hearing, and or sight removed...


Who thinks this is good. Who sees this is mental illness and that the help needed is not aiding in self mutilization. 

Nice path to be on.... the scenery is disturbing at best...


----------



## beowoulf90

painterswife said:


> Religion is, in your words, shoved in my face all the time.



Oh?

Please explain. As a Pagan I don't find any religion being shoved in my face except Islam, by the media.. Other than that it is all in passing. Yes I do pass a church or 2 on my way to work, but so far none of them have stopped me or had media coverage every 2 mins...

Please do explain how it is being shoved in your face. Thank you in advance


----------



## painterswife

beowoulf90 said:


> Oh?
> 
> Please explain. As a Pagan I don't find any religion being shoved in my face except Islam, by the media.. Other than that it is all in passing. Yes I do pass a church or 2 on my way to work, but so far none of them have stopped me or had media coverage every 2 mins...
> 
> Please do explain how it is being shoved in your face. Thank you in advance


First let's get your definition for shoved. You say Islam is shoved in your face by the media everyday. Are you referring to them talking about it on the news?


----------



## beowoulf90

painterswife said:


> First let's get your definition for shoved. You say Islam is shoved in your face by the media everyday. Are you referring to them talking about it on the news?


Yes in a coddling way..
These reporters appear to condone what Islam is doing while ignoring the facts that Islam is killing gays and stoning women etc..
I have no problem if they are reporting facts, but that isn't the case that I see and hear..

This would be like the reporting on WBC and forgetting to add the protesting at soldiers funerals and such.


----------



## painterswife

beowoulf90 said:


> Yes in a coddling way..
> These reporters appear to condone what Islam is doing while ignoring the facts that Islam is killing gays and stoning women etc..
> I have no problem if they are reporting facts, but that isn't the case that I see and hear..
> 
> This would be like the reporting on WBC and forgetting to add the protesting at soldiers funerals and such.


Well then I don't need to explain. You are experiencing what I experience everyday. Religion throughout our media.


----------



## Evons hubby

Bigotry, like slavery is an ugly thing in any of its forms.


----------



## Tiempo

beowoulf90 said:


> Oh?
> 
> Please explain. As a Pagan I don't find any religion being shoved in my face except Islam, by the media.. Other than that it is all in passing. Yes I do pass a church or 2 on my way to work, but so far none of them have stopped me or had media coverage every 2 mins...
> 
> Please do explain how it is being shoved in your face. Thank you in advance


They come to my house..my home..uninvited! I've never had a Muslim or a trans person come knocking on my door and invading my privacy uninvited to try to convert me.

And the church junk mailings..I get at least one a week.


----------



## 7thswan

TxHorseMom said:


> I also feel sorry for him. I don't agree with what he did, and I'm not going to give him warm fuzzies and call him brave, or a hero or any of that garbage. Personally, I think he needs psychiatric help, not mutilating surgery. He needs to get away from his crazy family. If he does end up committing suicide, and I sincerely hope he doesn't, it will be from realizing he made a huge mistake.


First thing I thought of-his crazy family of "girls". Maybe he has some need for attention , changing into a"woman" and this mag.cover,media ect. Will get him that. What happens when his 15 min. of fame is up? The sugar high comes with a crash.


----------



## Old Vet

painterswife said:


> Well then I don't need to explain. You are experiencing what I experience everyday. Religion throughout our media.


Since that there is no right to be free of religion in anything but your mind you will be hearing it everywhere. I hear the news and and don't think about religion in the news. I hear the story and don't put any religion to it. Oh by the way News is just like hearing gossip.


----------



## 7thswan

Tiempo said:


> They come to my house..my home..uninvited! I've never had a Muslim or a trans person come knocking on my door and invading my privacy uninvited to try to convert me.
> 
> And the church junk mailings..I get at least one a week.


The media is pushing a false naritive about islam on us. Islam is a hidious religion, just like an abusive relisonship, people need to get out and others should be aware. Dosen't matter if indviduals are not active in what is preached to them, the truth about islam need to be known. I'm sure the KKK is disgusting to you because of what they stand for-well, so is the same for those of us that know what islam is all about. The media is pushing it on us because they are left leaning and that goes hand in hand with the control of islam.

ps. we eradicated the kkk from my hometown Howell,by putting the truth out and ignoreing them.


----------



## painterswife

beowoulf90 said:


> My contempt isn't so much with what they do.. It is why shove it in my face every hour..
> 
> If any religion did this liberals would be up in arms crying about how religion is being forced on them.. If a church puts a cross in the town square, all the atheists and some of the pagans start crying about a wrongly separation of church and state..
> Yet I'm forced to put up with Jenner and the Kardasians constantly being shoved down my throat in the news.. I would tell them all to "grow a pair" but they would just cut them off in spite of themselves...





Old Vet said:


> Since that there is no right to be free of religion in anything but your mind you will be hearing it everywhere. I hear the news and and don't think about religion in the news. I hear the story and don't put any religion to it. Oh by the way News is just like hearing gossip.



That is correct and my response was to the above quote who was saying "If any religion did this liberals would be up in arms crying about how religion is being forced on them.."


----------



## chamoisee

> Personally, I think he needs psychiatric help, not mutilating surgery.


There is no psychiatric help for gender identity/gender dysphoria problems which can make a transgender person feel at home in the gender they were assigned at birth. Conversion therapy does not work and is so abusive (and ineffective) that it's being banned. There is no longer a diagnosis for Gender Identity Disorder in the DSM. It is acknowledged that support and social recognition of the gender that fits is the most helpful option. http://is.gd/0***Nw


----------



## chamoisee

> Please do explain how it is being shoved in your face. Thank you in advance


Example: Yesterday, I meet a goat person and we are talking goats. Great. I love talking goats. And then she says, "We're a Christian family business so ...(yada yada, more goat stuff)". And suddenly, I felt unsafe. I am queer, and I am obviously queer. I live in northern Idaho where there is still a fair amount of hatred. Also? I am not Christian. But, I didn't tell her any of that. 

Now, how do you think you'd feel if you met ME in the feed store and we were talking chickens, and suddenly I told you that I run a liberal atheist QUEER farm business? That never happens. I have plenty of gay and lesbian friends. None that I have ever met, advertises their farm business as being associated with anything gay, and we all tend to be pretty cautious, because the haters are dangerous, and yes, they will kill and attack you.....still, in 2015.


----------



## 7thswan

Several mental health professionals still consider wanting to change your gender a disorder that is not cured through a physical operation. For instance, Dr. Paul R. McHugh, the former chief psychologist at Johns Hopkins University,,,,

Read more: http://dailycaller.com/2015/06/02/the-price-of-transgender-acceptance/#ixzz3c10jn0Xn


----------



## Truckinguy

wr said:


> It's interesting that my comments, which were directed toward another person's specific comments would be taken out of context and then manipulated in that way but it has been suggested that one can tell another's political leanings by some of these things.


I'm up for a spirited debate even if it gets a bit testy, that's cool, some subjects have people with very passionate and opposing views. However, I'm curious as to why pedophilia gets brought up in some of the threads that have nothing to do with it. It pops up in some of the gay marriage threads, now in this transgender thread and is mentioned from time to time in the same sentence with polygamy and incest. Pedophilia is a subject unto itself, it's a heinous and deplorable crime and I don't think anyone on this forum condones it in any way.

Anything else that consenting adults do with themselves or other consenting adults is a completely different story. We can debate our opinions about whether they need psychiatric help or not until the cows come home but at the end of the day they aren't committing a crime against anyone else.

I suppose I should clarify because someone is bound to ask "So you're ok with polygamy and incest?". Sure, if it involves consenting adults. If a guy wants more then one wife or a woman wants more then one husband, do whatever makes you happy. If closely related adults want to get together for whatever reason, knock yourself out. If an adult is forcing a child in any of these situations then you've crossed the line into pedophilia and that's not ok.

I don't pretend to understand what Ms Jenner is going through because I don't. However, I also don't condemn her for it and I hope she finds the peace she is looking for.


----------



## chamoisee

There are also still mental health professionals who consider being gay a disorder. However, the official, professional consensus in the medical and psychological community is that gender dysphoria/gender identity problems are not a psychiatric disorder which can be cured without transitioning. It might also be relevant to mention that many transgender people do not get surgeries for various reasons (financial barriers being the most common), but transition in other areas of their life. Some get hormone replacement therapy, others do not. You can transition without getting the naughty bits rearranged.


----------



## 7thswan

chamoisee said:


> Example: Yesterday, I meet a goat person and we are talking goats. Great. I love talking goats. And then she says, "We're a Christian family business so ...(yada yada, more goat stuff)". And suddenly, I felt unsafe.
> Really? What do Christians do that had you scared? Maybe you should open- carry. You'd feel safer and they might be scared of you.


----------



## 7thswan

Truckinguy said:


> I'm up for a spirited debate even if it gets a bit testy, that's cool, some subjects have people with very passionate and opposing views. However, I'm curious as to why pedophilia gets brought up in some of the threads that have nothing to do with it. It pops up in some of the gay marriage threads, now in this transgender thread and is mentioned from time to time in the same sentence with polygamy and incest. Pedophilia is a subject unto itself, it's a heinous and deplorable crime and I don't think anyone on this forum condones it in any way.
> 
> Anything else that consenting adults do with themselves or other consenting adults is a completely different story. We can debate our opinions about whether they need psychiatric help or not until the cows come home but at the end of the day they aren't committing a crime against anyone else.
> 
> I suppose I should clarify because someone is bound to ask "So you're ok with polygamy and incest?". Sure, if it involves consenting adults. If a guy wants more then one wife or a woman wants more then one husband, do whatever makes you happy. If closely related adults want to get together for whatever reason, knock yourself out. If an adult is forcing a child in any of these situations then you've crossed the line into pedophilia and that's not ok.
> 
> I don't pretend to understand what Ms Jenner is going through because I don't. However, I also don't condemn her for it and I hope she finds the peace she is looking for.


I don't think he was saying anything about forcing a child...he was makeing a statement about acting on one's urges.


----------



## Tiempo

7thswan said:


> Several mental health professionals still consider wanting to change your gender a disorder that is not cured through a physical operation. For instance, Dr. Paul R. McHugh, the former chief psychologist at Johns Hopkins University,,,,
> 
> Read more: http://dailycaller.com/2015/06/02/the-price-of-transgender-acceptance/#ixzz3c10jn0Xn


http://www.transadvocate.com/clingi...of-transgender-medical-literature_n_13842.htm


----------



## Truckinguy

7thswan said:


> I don't think he was saying anything about forcing a child...he was makeing a statement about acting on one's urges.


Regardless, the point still stands. Acting on one's urge to change their gender is not a crime. If a pedophile acts on their urges it is a crime. Apples and oranges. One has nothing to do with the other.


----------



## Cornhusker

I'm not sure why this has to be blasted at us consistently.
It seems like an advertising blitz to convince people this is normal.
I don't care what he/she does, but does it need to be a public spectacle?
Sexual preference and activities should be private.
Like it or not, some people do get offended by all the sexual stuff being flung at us and our children.
Do what you want, keep it to yourself


----------



## chamoisee

It's not blasted at you continuously. The VAST majority of the people you see in the media will be people like yourself, straight and cisgender. Also, when the straight girls with long hair are wearing bikinis on the covers of Sports Illustrated, men don't complain about "all the sexual stuff being flung at us and our children."


----------



## Cornhusker

chamoisee said:


> It's not blasted at you continuously. The VAST majority of the people you see in the media will be people like yourself, straight and cisgender. Also, when the straight girls with long hair are wearing bikinis on the covers of Sports Illustrated, men don't complain about "all the sexual stuff being flung at us and our children."


I'm not sure what that has to do with what I said, but ok :cowboy:


----------



## joseph97297

Cornhusker said:


> I'm not sure why this has to be blasted at us consistently.
> It seems like an advertising blitz to convince people this is normal.
> I don't care what he/she does, but does it need to be a public spectacle?
> Sexual preference and activities should be private.
> Like it or not, some people do get offended by all the sexual stuff being flung at us and our children.
> Do what you want, keep it to yourself



Pretty simple way to 'keep that stuff from being blasted at you" is to not click the links, turn off the radio, change the tv channel. Works for me and mine. Didn't know about this transformation, don't care, and that is the reason I don't open those links that I care nothing about.

My kids watch what I allow them in my home. Elsewhere, if something is on that I don't think they should see, then guess what, we just talk or find something else to do.

How can someone, in this day and age, have anything flung at them. Don't click, don't read, change the station or better yet cut off the tv. Problem solved. It is amazingly simple and nothing to get worked up about. Not like they are holding ya down, strapped to a chair with your eyes held open with tape to force these images into your brain is it?


----------



## Cornhusker

joseph97297 said:


> Pretty simple way to 'keep that stuff from being blasted at you" is to not click the links, turn off the radio, change the tv channel. Works for me and mine. Didn't know about this transformation, don't care, and that is the reason I don't open those links that I care nothing about.
> 
> My kids watch what I allow them in my home. Elsewhere, if something is on that I don't think they should see, then guess what, we just talk or find something else to do.
> 
> How can someone, in this day and age, have anything flung at them. Don't click, don't read, change the station or better yet cut off the tv. Problem solved. It is amazingly simple and nothing to get worked up about. Not like they are holding ya down, strapped to a chair with your eyes held open with tape to force these images into your brain is it?


No doubt you are right, I don't watch much TV, and when I do it's usually documentaries or sitcoms.
Why do you suppose this stuff is being blitzed at the people across all forms of media though?
Why make such a big deal out of Bruce Jenner turning girl and growing boobs?
Why is the "president" so interested?
Do you suppose he's considering going the same route?


----------



## Evons hubby

Cornhusker said:


> Why do you suppose this stuff is being blitzed at the people across all forms of media though?


 The media tends to provide whatever sells best.


----------



## fordy

Cornhusker said:


> No doubt you are right, I don't watch much TV, and when I do it's usually documentaries or sitcoms.
> Why do you suppose this stuff is being blitzed at the people across all forms of media though?
> Why make such a big deal out of Bruce Jenner turning girl and growing boobs?
> Why is the "president" so interested?
> Do you suppose he's considering going the same route?


 ...........I'll tell you why , because it's all about forcing the QUEER agenda into the conscious mindset of the general public at large , BY , the Major networks except FOX !!! You'll notice we now have boys and grown Queers kissing each other in public like it is some kind of normal societal behavior !
...........These major media folks think they're going to force the general populas to completely change their long held attitudes relative to ANAL intercouse by shaming anyone who dares speak out against such behavior .
............OF course , if the issue was put to a vote in national referendum it would FAIL every time . So now ,atleast for the forseeable future , the courts and liberal politicans are the Queers best buddies and champion their issue . Things will change and the NON Queers will eventually make necessary corrections to the legal and political system . The ebb and flow of history always come full circle . , fordy:yawn:


----------



## 7thswan

Truckinguy said:


> Regardless, the point still stands. Acting on one's urge to change their gender is not a crime. If a pedophile acts on their urges it is a crime. Apples and oranges. One has nothing to do with the other.


uh no. sometimes our urges are wrong. Lines do need to be drawn and the point is some have difftent lines.We've been thru this with "marriage" being changed. Day to day we never know what some person is going to push on us. It's the plan, you know, or maybe you don't...


----------



## 7thswan

Tiempo said:


> http://www.transadvocate.com/clingi...of-transgender-medical-literature_n_13842.htm


That's not all why I posted that link. It also talks about having Medicare pay for sex change operations- and I think that much of the public would be against their tax dollars going to something like that.


----------



## painterswife

7thswan said:


> uh no. sometimes our urges are wrong. Lines do need to be drawn and the point is some have difftent lines.We've been thru this with "marriage" being changed. Day to day we never know what some person is going to push on us. It's the plan, you know, or maybe you don't...


Yes, we have a plan but you are too late to stop it.

First we made test tube babies
Now we can harvest all the eggs from women and freeze them ( we will have farms for that)
We are working on man made wombs( not long now)

Soon we will not need women at all.


----------



## beowoulf90

painterswife said:


> Well then I don't need to explain. You are experiencing what I experience everyday. Religion throughout our media.



Well I can honestly say I don't see or hear that.


----------



## Tiempo

fordy said:


> ...........I'll tell you why , because it's all about forcing the QUEER agenda into the conscious mindset of the general public at large , BY , the Major networks except FOX !!! You'll notice we now have boys and grown Queers kissing each other in public like it is some kind of normal societal behavior !
> ...........These major media folks think they're going to force the general populas to completely change their long held attitudes relative to ANAL intercouse by shaming anyone who dares speak out against such behavior .
> ............OF course , if the issue was put to a vote in national referendum it would FAIL every time . So now ,atleast for the forseeable future , the courts and liberal politicans are the Queers best buddies and champion their issue . Things will change and the NON Queers will eventually make necessary corrections to the legal and political system . The ebb and flow of history always come full circle . , fordy:yawn:


I think you'll find yourself mistaken. Social conservatism is dying and dying fast.


----------



## beowoulf90

Tiempo said:


> They come to my house..my home..uninvited! I've never had a Muslim or a trans person come knocking on my door and invading my privacy uninvited to try to convert me.
> 
> And the church junk mailings..I get at least one a week.


But you have had someone's Privacy flashed before your very eyes.. 
Bruce has every right to do what he did, but what happens in his bedroom is his business. But not anymore.. 
Is it male? Is it female? Why do I need to know?

I don't!
I don't care. 

But you are going to tell me anyway.. That is shoving it down my throat.

Now if the LDS or whom ever stop at my door and I don't want them there I tell them to leave. If they don't leave, then we take steps to remove them. Yet they haven't had a chance to shove their beliefs down my throat..

As to the mailings, well then lets stop all the junk mail.. I don't have credit cards and such yet I get at least 4 "offers" a week in the mail. It all goes into the same recycle barrel aka burn barrel.. So I wouldn't call that shoving down my throat.. That is just unwanted advertising.. Which we can't stop, because the postal service would go broke..


----------



## painterswife

beowoulf90 said:


> But you have had someone's Privacy flashed before your very eyes..
> Bruce has every right to do what he did, but what happens in his bedroom is his business. But not anymore..
> Is it male? Is it female? Why do I need to know?
> 
> I don't!
> I don't care.
> 
> But you are going to tell me anyway.. That is shoving it down my throat.
> 
> Now if the LDS or whom ever stop at my door and I don't want them there I tell them to leave. If they don't leave, then we take steps to remove them. Yet they haven't had a chance to shove their beliefs down my throat..
> 
> As to the mailings, well then lets stop all the junk mail.. I don't have credit cards and such yet I get at least 4 "offers" a week in the mail. It all goes into the same recycle barrel aka burn barrel.. So I wouldn't call that shoving down my throat.. That is just unwanted advertising.. Which we can't stop, because the postal service would go broke..


You are not seeing anything happening in his bedroom. So funny. Porn on the news? Who knew.


----------



## chamoisee

I have never knocked at anyone's door, telling them how I am gay and they should be too. Your idea of my "forcing it down your throat", is having the freedom and liberty to hold the hand of the woman I love and care for. You can hold your wife's hand and it isn't any kind of a sensational forcing-it-down-my-throat event. Why can't I hold someone else's hand without it being a big freaking deal?


----------



## chamoisee

All I want, and all that I have ever heard any other gay person want, is to have the personal liberty to live my life, pursue happiness, do my job, etc, without intrusion or interference from other people who have no vested interest in my personal life.


----------



## painterswife

I guess we should start having laws about what you can talk about in public or maybe you can't do anything in public because it might offend someone. I know we can all get into cardboard boxes and do everything we have to do outside our homes covered in the boxes. Won't have to see who is wearing makeup or who is wearing overalls. All websites will have locks on them where you have to log in to prove you are okay with seeing what might be on their pages.

No radio only head phones because you don't want anyone to have to hear what they might not like.

Oh! I forgot this is the US and we have certain freedoms and rights.


----------



## beowoulf90

chamoisee said:


> Example: Yesterday, I meet a goat person and we are talking goats. Great. I love talking goats. And then she says, "We're a Christian family business so ...(yada yada, more goat stuff)". And suddenly, I felt unsafe. I am queer, and I am obviously queer. I live in northern Idaho where there is still a fair amount of hatred. Also? I am not Christian. But, I didn't tell her any of that.
> 
> Now, how do you think you'd feel if you met ME in the feed store and we were talking chickens, and suddenly I told you that I run a liberal atheist QUEER farm business? That never happens. I have plenty of gay and lesbian friends. None that I have ever met, advertises their farm business as being associated with anything gay, and we all tend to be pretty cautious, because the haters are dangerous, and yes, they will kill and attack you.....still, in 2015.



But you had a choice, you were talking with said person and chose Common Courtesy instead of forcing your beliefs on them as they did you. If I click on news link, or turn on any news channel on TV or Radio, all I'm getting is Jenner this Jenner that.. There is no escape except the gun range, but then I'm labeled a right wing terrorist and hater..


I didn't ask to be in their bedroom.. So stop showing me.. 

How many heterosexual parades are there a year?
How many Swingers (and I'm not talking dancing) parades a year?
How many LGBT parades are there a year?
So please don't tell me they don't promote their beliefs and lifestyle..
You would be lying.

Oh and I know plenty of gays, lesbians, bi's, swingers, bikers truckers etc..Although I don't know any transsexuals/transgenders.. anyway, they don't feel the need to constantly announce their sexuality or their bedroom activity.. So why the need to promote it now with Bruce?


----------



## kasilofhome

Tiempo said:


> I think you'll find yourself mistaken. Social conservatism is dying and dying fast.


No, a great deal of effort is expended to return to Sodom and Gomorrah. The push is akin to a sword at the back of the neck conversion to Islam visual... public conversion..... many are not publicly stating their feels due to a political correctness .... note the word political....it is a political change fundamentally.

Outwardly far more successful than than reality.


----------



## chamoisee

Nearly all parades are primarily for straight people. 

Swingers: are usually Christians, and are usually a fairly Conservative crowd. They tend to be extremely patriotic and straight laced. Not what one would expect, at all.


----------



## beowoulf90

painterswife said:


> You are not seeing anything happening in his bedroom. So funny. Porn on the news? Who knew.



I think you missed the point. When I say, happening in his bedroom I mean private issues, not his actual bedroom..


----------



## painterswife

beowoulf90 said:


> I think you missed the point. When I say, happening in his bedroom I mean private issues, not his actual bedroom..


So what are you seeing that should be private? I have not seen anything that I can't see walking down the street or at the local lake.


----------



## beowoulf90

chamoisee said:


> Nearly all parades are primarily for straight people.
> 
> Swingers: are usually Christians, and are usually a fairly Conservative crowd. They tend to be extremely patriotic and straight laced. Not what one would expect, at all.



How do you figure that?
Did you ask the sexuality at a parade?
I don't recall the Memorial day Parades stating that you had to be straight or even suggesting it.
Same for the labor day parades or the Thanksgiving day parade and so on..

Is the Rose Bowl Parade LGBT or Straight? I don't know I never asked..

But I can tell you that the Gay Pride Parade isn't about heterosexuals.


----------



## beowoulf90

painterswife said:


> So what are you seeing that should be private? I have not seen anything that I can't see walking down the street or at the local lake.



His transformation from male to female..
That is his Private business, and none of mine..
So why tell me?

What color and style of panties/underwear do you wear?
Yes it is inappropriate for me to ask and none of my business.

Yet you aren't on the news for days on end tell everyone..

It's the same thing to me..

I could ask what is you bank account number also?
Again there is no reason I need to know that, so why tell me..


----------



## painterswife

So we should only put the news on that you like or is acceptable to you? I have no problem with learning about his journey. Do you get to decide what I can and can not watch?


----------



## chamoisee

Proms are nearly always celebrations of straight love and romance. If a gay or lesbian person wants to take their date to the prom, suddenly they are "throwing it in people's faces".


----------



## MO_cows

chamoisee said:


> Proms are nearly always celebrations of straight love and romance. If a gay or lesbian couple wants to take their date to the prom, suddenly they are "throwing it in people's faces".


As I recall, prom was a celebration of one's popularity in high school and that was about it. Doesn't mean squat in the real world. Not everyone gets a date for prom, but goes anyway with a friend. So a couple of girls or guys walking in to prom together has probably been happening since the inception of prom. Unless this "victim" gay couple makes a spectacle of themselves with an excess of physical affection, they should have no problem attending prom if that's what it takes not to ruin their life. I didn't go to prom -- my boyfriend was already out of high school -- but I never let myself feel like a victim because of that.


----------



## chamoisee

You chose not to go to prom. Had you been told that you could only attend in the company of someone you did not care for or found decidedly unattractive, you might have felt slighted or victimized.


----------



## Cornhusker

Tiempo said:


> I think you'll find yourself mistaken. Social conservatism is dying and dying fast.


It's not dying, it's being murdered by the left
They are in the schools indoctrinating the kids, they own the media, and the government.
Conservative opinion is mocked and beat down at every opportunity.
Liberals are all for free thought and opinion as long as you think and say what they tell you to think and say.
That's why they use children and simple minded adults to spread their hate.
It's oppression, nothing less


----------



## Cornhusker

chamoisee said:


> You chose not to go to prom. Had you been told that you could only attend in the company of someone you did not care for or found decidedly unattractive, you might have felt slighted or victimized.


Not everybody feels "victimized" every time they don't get their own way.
Some choose to put on their big kid pants and go on about their business.


----------



## Cornhusker

painterswife said:


> So we should only put the news on that you like or is acceptable to you? I have no problem with learning about his journey. Do you get to decide what I can and can not watch?


I guess if you have to watch it 24/7, that's up to you
Isn't there some real news happening?


----------



## MO_cows

chamoisee said:


> You chose not to go to prom. Had you been told that you could only attend in the company of someone you did not care for or found decidedly unattractive, you might have felt slighted or victimized.


No, it wasn't a choice, my date was a wee bit older than was allowed. What was a choice, was whether or not I wanted to be a victim over it.


----------



## Tiempo

Cornhusker said:


> It's not dying, it's being murdered by the left
> They are in the schools indoctrinating the kids, they own the media, and the government.
> Conservative opinion is mocked and beat down at every opportunity.
> Liberals are all for free thought and opinion as long as you think and say what they tell you to think and say.
> That's why they use children and simple minded adults to spread their hate.
> It's oppression, nothing less


So simple minded that, according to your theory, it's working?


----------



## chamoisee

Cornhusker said:


> Not everybody feels "victimized" every time they don't get their own way.
> Some choose to put on their big kid pants and go on about their business.


We're not talking about "not getting their own way". We're talking about people who get assaulted and killed by haters, because they happened to be drinking a cup of coffee at a coffee shop, or simply walking down the street in the clothes that they like. People are losing their jobs and being evicted from their rentals despite their gender identity having absolutely nothing to do with their job performance or their tenancy. Lives are being destroyed and snuffed out, and minimizing this by saying that we need to put on our big kid pants and go about our business, is insulting. We would like to be able to go about our business- without fear of violence or discrimination.


----------



## painterswife

Cornhusker said:


> I guess if you have to watch it 24/7, that's up to you
> Isn't there some real news happening?


I don't watch the news at all. I chose what I will read. Everyone else can do that as well. The point is I don't want someone else telling me what I can or can not watch. That is why I love the internet.


----------



## susieneddy

MO_cows said:


> As I recall, prom was a celebration of one's popularity in high school and that was about it. Doesn't mean squat in the real world. Not everyone gets a date for prom, but goes anyway with a friend. So a couple of girls or guys walking in to prom together has probably been happening since the inception of prom. *Unless this "victim" gay couple makes a spectacle of themselves with an excess of physical affection, they should have no problem attending prom if that's what it takes not to ruin their life.* I didn't go to prom -- my boyfriend was already out of high school -- but I never let myself feel like a victim because of that.


so you are saying it would be ok for a guy and a girl to make a spectacle of themselves with an excess of physical affection but not a gay couple?

Most kids in high school now days probably have gay/lesbian friends and it wouldn't bother them at all.


----------



## MO_cows

chamoisee said:


> We're not talking about "not getting their own way". We're talking about people who get assaulted and killed by haters, because they happened to be drinking a cup of coffee at a coffee shop, or simply walking down the street in the clothes that they like. People are losing their jobs and being evicted from their rentals despite their gender identity having absolutely nothing to do with their job performance or their tenancy. Lives are being destroyed and snuffed out, and minimizing this by saying that we need to put on our big kid pants and go about our business, is insulting. We would like to be able to go about our business- without fear of violence or discrimination.


Maybe it's still the "wild west" there in Idaho, but physical violence and the kind of discrimination you described, against a person just because they are gay, is not common around here and never has been as far as I know. I don't know of anyone who would condone it, and even the people who passionately oppose gay marriage on this board have never called for violence or job/housing discrimination, either. 

Because something isn't welcomed with open arms, doesn't automatically mean it is being discriminated against. 

And as far as people losing their jobs, well unless you worked with them, you really don't know about their job performance. Someone could have been fired for a valid reason but they think it's because they are gay, and that's what they tell every one who will listen.


----------



## MO_cows

susieneddy said:


> so you are saying it would be ok for a guy and a girl to make a spectacle of themselves with an excess of physical affection but not a gay couple?
> 
> Most kids in high school now days probably have gay/lesbian friends and it wouldn't bother them at all.


"Excess" means an excess, no matter the gender of the couple.


----------



## chamoisee

I think that if I asked LGBT people where you live, whether they feel safe being out and honest in their identity, very few of them would say that they never feel afraid, or have never encountered violence, threats, etc. This is an issue nationwide. 

http://is.gd/p6YN4E


----------



## chamoisee

http://is.gd/ISWS77


----------



## TxHorseMom

chamoisee said:


> We're not talking about "not getting their own way". We're talking about people who get assaulted and killed by haters, because they happened to be drinking a cup of coffee at a coffee shop, or simply walking down the street in the clothes that they like. People are losing their jobs and being evicted from their rentals despite their gender identity having absolutely nothing to do with their job performance or their tenancy. Lives are being destroyed and snuffed out, and minimizing this by saying that we need to put on our big kid pants and go about our business, is insulting. We would like to be able to go about our business- without fear of violence or discrimination.[/QUOTE
> Did you know the population of gays is about 2% of the population? I didn't know this until very recently, I thought it was much, much more. So, what you are saying is that 95% of the population (I'm giving 3% as a buffer) is going to hurt, fire assult, etc these people simply because they are gay? Well, people who aren't gay also have these problems too. Is it because they are blonde? Or short? Or own a dog? Yes, I DO believe that there are hate crimes and I DO think it's wrong. But I think any of these injustices towards ANYONE regardless of race, gender sexuality, hair color, job, pet owner etc is WRONG. But I also believe that it a person wanted to, they could "blame"and twist their injustices on just about anything. Kinda like nothing is ever anyone's fault anymore.


----------



## 7thswan

painterswife said:


> Yes, we have a plan but you are too late to stop it.
> 
> First we made test tube babies
> Now we can harvest all the eggs from women and freeze them ( we will have farms for that)
> We are working on man made wombs( not long now)
> 
> Soon we will not need women at all.


I don't know whom your "we" is, I understand the marxist "we". That is who is doing this right now, I do realize just as sinful place in the Bible , it won't be me stopping it. So big woop, go be proud of yourself. I sit back and just laugh at people that make such fools of themselves , you guys are not as smart and open-minded as you think you are.


----------



## chamoisee

I think it's pretty easy for the people who are NOT being targeted for violence, who DON'T feel afraid, to say that those of us who are, are just whining.


----------



## painterswife

7thswan said:


> I don't know whom your "we" is, I understand the marxist "we". That is who is doing this right now, I do realize just as sinful place in the Bible , it won't be me stopping it. So big woop, go be proud of yourself. I sit back and just laugh at people that make such fools of themselves , you guys are not as smart and open-minded as you think you are.


I am so disapointed that you think so badly of me. How ever will I survive.


----------



## farmerDale

Interesting that some think social conservative society is dying. In fact, they are just about the only ones having kids in any numbers. Naturally, and happily we breed and multiply. And we pass our values down to our kids.

Families who make a concerted effort to stay together, are generally socially conservative ones. And they are the ones making, keeping, and taking the best care of their babies.

Socially liberal folks, either can not have babies naturally, cuz they are marrying their same sex counterparts, are killing their babies before they are born, or have careers that are far more important than families, so they choose to not raise kids.

And which side is dying out?


----------



## 7thswan

chamoisee said:


> I think that if I asked LGBT people where you live, whether they feel safe being out and honest in their identity, very few of them would say that they never feel afraid, or have never encountered violence, threats, etc. This is an issue nationwide.
> 
> http://is.gd/p6YN4E


I was out with my Sis (gay) on Valentiens night for dinner. Out of town in N.C. helping her move from her ex. There was a man that was paceing back and forth in the isle in the resturant infront of us(and his children/wife). He was clenching his fists, and opening them, furious. My Sis din't seem to pay any attention, I knew what was up. He finaly sat down, smart move, scrauny scumbag, I'm not going to tolerate any kind of that nonsence(physical abuse).
MY sis moved up here, opened a candy shop in a small town. She kept pushing it, smoozing with her girlfriend outside at the patio set. Noone would allow their kids to go there and the bus driver of the school told the kids they were not allowed stop at the candy store on the way home. She had to close. I do not understand why gays insist that others should feel they have to be accepted-I know it's normal , to the gay person,because they are used to it to feel the way they do. Why can't they accept it that others don't, they just don't. Then, now with what gays have done with marriage, sorry, gays are going to have to accept that people will dig their heals in. That is going to bring out anger, it's HUMAN. It's what obama and his crew want, they want this defensiveness,fighting, people getting so full of themselves because they are temporarly getting their way. If you really cared, you'd stop and realize that you,just like blacks ect. are being used. Read the cloward and piven plan and the communist goals-it's as clear as the driven snow-the ending is not good.


----------



## 7thswan

painterswife said:


> I am so disapointed that you think so badly of me. How ever will I survive.


Badly? Libs are good for a whole mess of laughs! Look at what a fun and interesting place like Detroit and Chicago are-from a distance.


----------



## painterswife

farmerDale said:


> Interesting that some think social conservative society is dying. In fact, they are just about the only ones having kids in any numbers. Naturally, and happily we breed and multiply. And we pass our values down to our kids.
> 
> Families who make a concerted effort to stay together, are generally socially conservative ones. And they are the ones making, keeping, and taking the best care of their babies.
> 
> Socially liberal folks, either can not have babies naturally, cuz they are marrying their same sex counterparts, are killing their babies before they are born, or have careers that are far more important than families, so they choose to not raise kids.
> 
> And which side is dying out?


How is that breeding program working out? I guess you can breed them but you can't force them to believe the same thing the parents do.


----------



## painterswife

7thswan said:


> I was out with my Sis (gay) on Valentiens night for dinner. Out of town in N.C. helping her move from her ex. There was a man that was paceing back and forth in the isle in the resturant infront of us(and his children/wife). He was clenching his fists, and opening them, furious. My Sis din't seem to pay any attention, I knew what was up. He finaly sat down, smart move, scrauny scumbag, I'm not going to tolerate any kind of that nonsence(physical abuse).
> MY sis moved up here, opened a candy shop in a small town. She kept pushing it, smoozing with her girlfriend outside at the patio set. Noone would allow their kids to go there and the bus driver of the school told the kids they were not allowed stop at the candy store on the way home. She had to close. I do not understand why gays insist that others should feel they have to be accepted-I know it's normal , to the gay person,because they are used to it to feel the way they do. Why can't they accept it that others don't, they just don't. Then, now with what gays have done with marriage, sorry, gays are going to have to accept that people will dig their heals in. That is going to bring out anger, it's HUMAN. It's what obama and his crew want, they want this defensiveness,fighting, people getting so full of themselves because they are temporarly getting their way. If you really cared, you'd stop and realize that you,just like blacks ect. are being used. Read the cloward and piven plan and the communist goals-it's as clear as the driven snow-the ending is not good.


That percentage of the population that looks down on same sex couples is getti g smaller every minute. It is a wonderful thing that we will not have to hear stories such as your as often.


----------



## 7thswan

chamoisee said:


> I think it's pretty easy for the people who are NOT being targeted for violence, who DON'T feel afraid, to say that those of us who are, are just whining.


I was targeted for violence many times, I'm not going to say why here,now, diffrent reasons at diffrent times. There is no reason or excuse that you should ever have to be afraid because you are gay. I would,stand side to side with you and defend you, right to the end, and I am telling you this because I have been beaten into a 3 day coma defending someone. You are just going to have to realize, sometimes, you must walk away. Your lifestyle is not worth your physical life.


----------



## Tricky Grama

TxHorseMom said:


> I also feel sorry for him. I don't agree with what he did, and I'm not going to give him warm fuzzies and call him brave, or a hero or any of that garbage. Personally, I think he needs psychiatric help, not mutilating surgery. He needs to get away from his crazy family. If he does end up committing suicide, and I sincerely hope he doesn't, it will be from realizing he made a huge mistake.


The folks who go thru this surgery are required to have a lot of psychoanalysis b/4. Some are rejected, so I've read.


----------



## TxHorseMom

Tricky Grama said:


> The folks who go thru this surgery are required to have a lot of psychoanalysis b/4. Some are rejected, so I've read.


I have also read the same thing. But, (and I obviously have no knowledge one way or the other) I suspect that his psychoanalysis was shortened by quite a bit, if he did have it at all.


----------



## Cornhusker

Tiempo said:


> So simple minded that, according to your theory, it's working?


Yes, it seems to be working
You see it every day, people spreading the lies of the left, defending rats such as Obama no matter what, without question


----------



## Cornhusker

chamoisee said:


> We're not talking about "not getting their own way". We're talking about people who get assaulted and killed by haters, because they happened to be drinking a cup of coffee at a coffee shop, or simply walking down the street in the clothes that they like. People are losing their jobs and being evicted from their rentals despite their gender identity having absolutely nothing to do with their job performance or their tenancy. Lives are being destroyed and snuffed out, and minimizing this by saying that we need to put on our big kid pants and go about our business, is insulting. We would like to be able to go about our business- without fear of violence or discrimination.


So you are saying that anyone that sticks to their beliefs and convictions is incapable of compassion?
That's just stupid.
Why should anyone have to compromise their principles?
Hate to burst your bubble, but conservatives are actually more tolerant and helpful of those they disagree with than liberal hate mongers.
When the violence against people of a different belief, it's almost always the liberals who attack


----------



## Cornhusker

Tricky Grama said:


> The folks who go thru this surgery are required to have a lot of psychoanalysis b/4. Some are rejected, so I've read.


I don't think this is true for all cases.
I have a niece who suddenly decided she wanted to be a man.
All she needed was a shyster doctor who undoubtedly is a leftist fleabag and in it for the money.
It's killing her dad, and her sister is pushing her into it as hard as she can.
It's a mess, it destroys families, it hurts people, and nobody gives a crap about the people they hurt.
But then she's an Obama fan, so she's not very smart anyway


----------



## chamoisee

You know what? Let's say you're all correct and my friends and I are freaks. Still. Do you have be to mean and nasty? Whatever happened to not saying anything at all if you don't have something nice to say? At least once a week, I am talking someone out of killing themselves. Usually, it's because they feel hopeless, alone, and just can't take it anymore. They feel isolated and afraid. It's not so hard to be nice, to be polite. And for people who are already teetering on the edge, it could make a life or death difference. You might be surprised how much of a difference a smile or a pleasant comment, to a random stranger, would make. And most of the time, we will never know for sure....but we can all try our best to be making a *positive* difference in the world.


----------



## fordy

chamoisee said:


> You know what? Let's say you're all correct and my friends and I are freaks. Still. Do you have be to mean and nasty? Whatever happened to not saying anything at all if you don't have something nice to say? At least once a week, I am talking someone out of killing themselves. Usually, it's because they feel hopeless, alone, and just can't take it anymore. They feel isolated and afraid. It's not so hard to be nice, to be polite. And for people who are already teetering on the edge, it could make a life or death difference. You might be surprised how much of a difference a smile or a pleasant comment, to a random stranger, would make. And most of the time, we will never know for sure....but we can all try our best to be making a *positive* difference in the world.


 
.............I don't think anyone , here , has referred to you'll as "freaks" ! IF , you had met me in person , I would have extended to you the same respect as I would any person I had just met . My anger is focused upon anyone who , tries , to take away my right to express my opinion about them OR their lifestyle in a public forum . And , that is exactly what happens , more often than not when I speak up . Does that mean I will use any kind of revullisive(not a proper word) adjectives to demean another person just because I don't happen to agree with their sexual choice........No , I don't engage in that kind of conversation . 
.............If , you lived next door to me , I would be the best neighbor I could be , as long as you didn't try to force your lifestyle on me . What you do in the privacy of your home is your business . , fordy


----------



## MO_cows

chamoisee said:


> You know what? Let's say you're all correct and my friends and I are freaks. Still. Do you have be to mean and nasty? Whatever happened to not saying anything at all if you don't have something nice to say? At least once a week, I am talking someone out of killing themselves. Usually, it's because they feel hopeless, alone, and just can't take it anymore. They feel isolated and afraid. It's not so hard to be nice, to be polite. And for people who are already teetering on the edge, it could make a life or death difference. You might be surprised how much of a difference a smile or a pleasant comment, to a random stranger, would make. And most of the time, we will never know for sure....but we can all try our best to be making a *positive* difference in the world.


Who said you were a freak? That happened inside your head. 

Everyone feels isolated and afraid at times, for various reasons. That isn't unique to LGBT people. It's part of the human condition. 

But if you'd rather be a victim and play martyr, that is your choice. Never mind that award winning, ratings topping tv show that featured a gay couple and never would have made it on the air 15 years ago. All those other signs of acceptance by society at large must just be a fluke too.


----------



## poppy

Cornhusker said:


> I'm not sure why this has to be blasted at us consistently.
> It seems like an advertising blitz to convince people this is normal.
> I don't care what he/she does, but does it need to be a public spectacle?
> Sexual preference and activities should be private.
> Like it or not, some people do get offended by all the sexual stuff being flung at us and our children.
> Do what you want, keep it to yourself


It's because freak shows draw viewers. It makes other freaks feel good about themselves and most others like to watch a train wreck. Anything way out of the norm, especially involving sex in any way, is a magnet for many people. Some agree with it, some are shocked, some are disgusted, but they all have to look.


----------



## FeralFemale

I don't care. 

I don't care if Bruce Jenner wants to get his bits cut off. I don't care if he's happy about it. I don't care if he's unhappy about it. It's not my business. I don't care about the media blitz regarding his transition. And I only vaguely care about his Vanity Fair cover because I think he looks like RenÃ©e Russo which is kind of interesting but ultimately has no bearing in my life whatsoever. It was also kind of interesting when he first came out but that's only because I had a crush on him when I was a little girl. Otherwise, you guessed it, I don't care. 

I also don't care if she is gay or he is straight or if someone only enjoys the company of a bowl of spaghetti. As long as your gay, straight, spaghetti, etc., life doesn't affect mine or hurt anyone else I don't care.

And frankly, I can't believe I wasted this much time even responding to this subject. Not that there's anything wrong with the folks on this thread speaking their mind....for 8 pages.... I personally just think there are a lot more important things out there going on in the world.


----------



## BlackFeather

In the past most people believed in God, and most adhered to the Bible and accepted the moral code there in. Today Many want to do what they want and as a result reject the moral code in the Bible and many even reject the idea of there being a God. So as I see it we in this country are running an experiment, many are abandoning the long accepted moral code in favor of a new "do as you like a long as you consent" or a "We can decide what is right and wrong for ourselves" moral code. We can bicker all thread long who is right but I suggest we see what the next 10 years bring. If with this new moral code we burst into a near utopia then fine, but if this country degrades into a heck hole then that will be an answer as well. I'll can accept the results of the experiment, but I still believe some will not want to accept whatever this experiment proves.


----------



## poppy

All Jenner did was indulge in a fantasy. Most people have them at some point in life and many last for decades. Lots of people, as they go through their 20's and decades after, feel as though they are not complete. Maybe they think about how they should have been a doctor because they feel they would have been a good one or they think that is what they were meant to be. Others think they should have married the high school sweetheart because that was who they were meant for. Such people are generally unhappy throughout life and would be no happier if their fantasy has came true. I'm sure Jenner was miserable and his indulging his fantasy is not likely to change that.


----------



## farmerDale

painterswife said:


> How is that breeding program working out? I guess you can breed them but you can't force them to believe the same thing the parents do.


It works really good actually. My family has a near 100% success rate in that we have maintained a very strong, Bible centered belief system for centuries. And the best part is no one has "forced" anything on the next generation. I guess they see the success in life and happiness and strive for the most part, to keep up the tradition of strong family and faith in God as the cornerstone to a happy, fulfilled, and fruitful life.

And do not take this the wrong way, but I have no gay relatives at all. I wonder if it is coincidence, or what it is? It makes me curious actually.


----------



## farmerDale

chamoisee said:


> You know what? Let's say you're all correct and my friends and I are freaks. Still. Do you have be to mean and nasty? Whatever happened to not saying anything at all if you don't have something nice to say? At least once a week, I am talking someone out of killing themselves. Usually, it's because they feel hopeless, alone, and just can't take it anymore. They feel isolated and afraid. It's not so hard to be nice, to be polite. And for people who are already teetering on the edge, it could make a life or death difference. You might be surprised how much of a difference a smile or a pleasant comment, to a random stranger, would make. And most of the time, we will never know for sure....but we can all try our best to be making a *positive* difference in the world.


I feel awful about suicidal tendencies among the down hearted. I do not think anyone here has called you a freak, or anyone gay a freak, have they? If I met you on the street, you would most certainly get a smile from me, it is kind of how I was raised. If I knew you were gay, I would give you that same smile. Black? Same smile. Orangish purple? Same smile. A mean looking hombre who is brandishing a knife? Ok, at some point fear kicks in, and I may find it tough to smile...

I apologize if I personally have come across harshly, I honestly do. I do think the thread has drifted, and Mr. Jenner, the original topic, has been forgotten.

Good for you in helping those who are in desperate straits. Keep it up.


----------



## painterswife

The word freak may have never been said. It how ever is implied over and over again throughout this forum by many.

It one post very nice things are said and then it is called a "lifestyle" removing all the caring that first came across on the post. Just saying that you don't want it shoved in your face is hurtful. Do you believe that most would want to be berated for the simple act of holding the hand or kissing goodbye the person they love in public? Heterosexual couples get to do things in public everyday that same sex couples are told are disgusting when they do them.

Here in this forum it is said over and over that they are perversions. Words do hurt and so much more when people have been put down all their lives because you don't like who they love.


----------



## beowoulf90

painterswife said:


> So we should only put the news on that you like or is acceptable to you? I have no problem with learning about his journey. Do you get to decide what I can and can not watch?



Ok, I'm done..
I can't get through to you..

No where did I say that..

Yet you haven't answered any questions I've asked..
WHY?

Too personal? 

Well imagine that...

Since you have no problem with personal/private information being put out there for the public to see then you shouldn't have any problem putting porn on mainstream TV during Prime Time or even Saturday morning. Imagine the learning journey..

Good for you glad to see you are so "open" minded..

Oh by the way one of those porn videos may be of you with out your knowledge. They are known as "spy video". But since you have no problem with personal or private info/business being put out there I'm sure you won't have a problem with that.. Just imagine how others would learn from the "journey"

But of course I'm a cad for wanting and thinking personal business should be private and not in the public eye..


Grandma & grandpa were sitting watching TV and grandpa had the remote.
Grandpa kept switching between the fishing channel and the porn channel, but couldn't decide what to watch.. Grandma finally had enough of the switching back and forth. Grandma exclaimed "for goodness sake leave the porn channel on, you already know how to fish"


----------



## painterswife

beowoulf90 said:


> Ok, I'm done..
> I can't get through to you..
> 
> No where did I say that..
> 
> Yet you haven't answered any questions I've asked..
> WHY?
> 
> Too personal?
> 
> Well imagine that...
> 
> Since you have no problem with personal/private information being put out there for the public to see then you shouldn't have any problem putting porn on mainstream TV during Prime Time or even Saturday morning. Imagine the learning journey..
> 
> Good for you glad to see you are so "open" minded..
> 
> Oh by the way one of those porn videos may be of you with out your knowledge. They are known as "spy video". But since you have no problem with personal or private info/business being put out there I'm sure you won't have a problem with that.. Just imagine how others would learn from the "journey"
> 
> But of course I'm a cad for wanting and thinking personal business should be private and not in the public eye..
> 
> 
> Grandma & grandpa were sitting watching TV and grandpa had the remote.
> Grandpa kept switching between the fishing channel and the porn channel, but couldn't decide what to watch.. Grandma finally had enough of the switching back and forth. Grandma exclaimed "for goodness sake leave the porn channel on, you already know how to fish"


Each person gets to decide what personal info they want to put out there. Each person gets to decide what they want to watch or read. Use your choice but don't step on mine or anyone else's. You can turn it off.


----------



## Cornhusker

painterswife said:


> Each person gets to decide what personal info they want to put out there. Each person gets to decide what they want to watch or read. Use your choice but don't step on mine or anyone else's. You can turn it off.


Is that why the Obamaphiles are trying to shut down Rush and Beck?


----------



## painterswife

Cornhusker said:


> Is that why the Obamaphiles are trying to shut down Rush and Beck?


Politics in this thread?


----------



## gapeach

I hope Caitlyn paid for her surgery herself and did not use Medicare to pay for it.


----------



## Cornhusker

painterswife said:


> Politics in this thread?


Just pointing out the double standard
You tell us to shut it off, yet if it disagrees with you, (the broader sense "you" as in "left leaning people") it's all stops out, campaign to shut down those that don't agree with you.
It's not politics, it's just how it is.


----------



## painterswife

Cornhusker said:


> Just pointing out the double standard
> You tell us to shut it off, yet if it disagrees with you, (the broader sense "you" as in "left leaning people") it's all stops out, campaign to shut down those that don't agree with you.
> It's not politics, it's just how it is.


You are accusing me of shutting off who? How about you talk to me and not accuse me of what others may be doing.


----------



## Tiempo

Cornhusker said:


> Just pointing out the double standard
> You tell us to shut it off, yet if it disagrees with you, (the broader sense "you" as in "left leaning people") it's all stops out, campaign to shut down those that don't agree with you.
> It's not politics, it's just how it is.


Speaking for myself, I don't want them shut down..let them keep talking and making fools of themselves.


----------



## 7thswan

chamoisee said:


> You know what? Let's say you're all correct and my friends and I are freaks. Still. Do you have be to mean and nasty? Whatever happened to not saying anything at all if you don't have something nice to say? At least once a week, I am talking someone out of killing themselves. Usually, it's because they feel hopeless, alone, and just can't take it anymore. They feel isolated and afraid. It's not so hard to be nice, to be polite. And for people who are already teetering on the edge, it could make a life or death difference. You might be surprised how much of a difference a smile or a pleasant comment, to a random stranger, would make. And most of the time, we will never know for sure....but we can all try our best to be making a *positive* difference in the world.


Look, I don't think anyone is being mean and hateful. And as painterswife said about me using "lifestyle", she is wrong. I only tryed to seperate what one considers their "life"/"Whom they are" from their physical life. 
As far as the anger, I don't know what people expect, the goverment wants it, and they want it to quietly fester. They want people to be PC when they try to talk or speak their feelings, that in it'self is shutting people down. And if you understand people "teetering "on the edge, it's not good to just keep it inside.
Don't tell me the government doesn't want this anger/confusion/ect. The Gov. could have written up bills/laws and had "Civil Unions"; they write bills/SR's/laws everyday to excess... The gov. could have done something about HC without lieing, without ruining others HC -they want the anger/confusion/ect. They could close the borders-they want people to be afraid of terroists just walking in. The spying/IRS/Bengazi/keeping hidden e-mails, flying that jet over NY-just to terrorise the fearful citizens, it's been going on sinse day 1 with the current crew,,, I can go on all day-they want this. I know the left/you will want to reject what I'm saying, but please consider it, maybe you will have a little more understanding of those that are not in your shoes.


----------



## painterswife

7thswan said:


> Look, I don't think anyone is being mean and hateful. And as painterswife said about me using "lifestyle", she is wrong. I only tryed to seperate what one considers their "life"/"Whom they are" from their physical life.
> As far as the anger, I don't know what people expect, the goverment wants it, and they want it to quietly fester. They want people to be PC when they try to talk or speak their feelings, that in it'self is shutting people down. And if you understand people "teetering "on the edge, it's not good to just keep it inside.
> Don't tell me the government doesn't want this anger/confusion/ect. The Gov. could have written up bills/laws and had "Civil Unions"; they write bills/SR's/laws everyday to excess... The gov. could have done something about HC without lieing, without ruining others HC -they want the anger/confusion/ect. They could close the borders-they want people to be afraid of terroists just walking in. The spying/IRS/Bengazi/keeping hidden e-mails, flying that jet over NY-just to terrorise the fearful citizens, it's been going on sinse day 1 with the current crew,,, I can go on all day-they want this. I know the left/you will want to reject what I'm saying, but please consider it, maybe you will have a little more understanding of those that are not in your shoes.


Everything is not about the government. This is getting ridiculous.


----------



## Tricky Grama

A perspective from a BTDT, person.

http://joemiller.us/2015/06/i-had-s...il&utm_term=0_065b6c381c-ed1026f2cf-230980529


----------



## gapeach

Thanks, TG, I remember this case but never knew how it turned out....


----------



## beowoulf90

painterswife said:


> Each person gets to decide what personal info they want to put out there. Each person gets to decide what they want to watch or read. Use your choice but don't step on mine or anyone else's. You can turn it off.



That's fine by me I will avail myself of my choice..

but you won't like it..

I choose to carry my sidearm everywhere I go
I choose my Right to Life and the Pursuit of Happiness
I choose my Right to Freedom OF Religion (stressed for the Constitutionally inept)
I choose who will be my Doctor and where I want to get medical services from.
I choose who I buy medical insurance from.
I choose what medical procedures will be included in that medical insurance and which ones won't be included.
Last but not least, I choose the Constitution 


Oh wait I keep forgetting this isn't "normal" to some, thus I'm a right wing terrorists without choices.. Even the Government has said I'm not allowed to choose and forced their choices down my throat..

Since the media wants us to think that transgender is now normal, then I can assume that teachers are pedophiles as being normal..The media is constantly reporting on it..


----------



## kasilofhome

Lobotomys did not work to help people and I doubt sex reassignment will help people today.... 

Deal with what you got.


----------



## Cornhusker

painterswife said:


> You are accusing me of shutting off who? How about you talk to me and not accuse me of what others may be doing.


See, that's why I put the disclaimer of "you in the broader sense..." because I wasn't accusing the individual "you".
You are trying too hard to be offended.
Relax


----------



## painterswife

Cornhusker said:


> See, that's why I put the disclaimer of "you in the broader sense..." because I wasn't accusing the individual "you".
> You are trying to hard to be offended.
> Relax


It gets pretty tiring having discussions where so many are blaming some group of people instead of discussing actual people in actual situations.

Not all left leaning people want to abortions. Not all right leaning are against them. We are individuals and this constant lumping people based on what others think they believe is wrong.


----------



## Tiempo

kasilofhome said:


> Lobotomys did not work to help people and I doubt sex reassignment will help people today....
> 
> Deal with what you got.


Apples and oranges.


----------



## Cornhusker

painterswife said:


> Each person gets to decide what personal info they want to put out there. Each person gets to decide what they want to watch or read. Use your choice but don't step on mine or anyone else's. You can turn it off.





beowoulf90 said:


> That's fine by me I will avail myself of my choice..
> 
> but you won't like it..
> 
> I choose to carry my sidearm everywhere I go
> I choose my Right to Life and the Pursuit of Happiness
> I choose my Right to Freedom OF Religion (stressed for the Constitutionally inept)
> I choose who will be my Doctor and where I want to get medical services from.
> I choose who I buy medical insurance from.
> I choose what medical procedures will be included in that medical insurance and which ones won't be included.
> Last but not least, I choose the Constitution
> 
> 
> Oh wait I keep forgetting this isn't "normal" to some, thus I'm a right wing terrorists without choices.. Even the Government has said I'm not allowed to choose and forced their choices down my throat..
> 
> Since the media wants us to think that transgender is now normal, then I can assume that teachers are pedophiles as being normal..The media is constantly reporting on it..


The left is all about free choice...theirs, not yours


----------



## oneraddad

painterswife said:


> It gets pretty tiring having discussions where everyone is blaming some group of people instead of discussing actual people in actual situations.
> 
> Not all left leaning people want to abortions. Not all right leaning are against them. We are individuals and this constant lumping people based on what others think they believe is wrong.



Is "everyone" a group ?


----------



## susieneddy

MO_cows said:


> "Excess" means an excess, no matter the gender of the couple.


but yet you only included the gay couple in your comment


----------



## MO_cows

susieneddy said:


> but yet you only included the gay couple in your comment


Well duh, because that was the topic. You read more into my words than was actually there. A boy/girl couple getting carried away with their physical affection at prom would be a different thread.


----------



## painterswife

oneraddad said:


> Is "everyone" a group ?


Yes, guilty as charged.


----------



## kasilofhome

Tiempo said:


> Apples and oranges.


Really...is it that much difference.


----------



## kasilofhome

Cornhusker said:


> See, that's why I put the disclaimer of "you in the broader sense..." because I wasn't accusing the individual "you".
> You are trying to hard to be offended.
> Relax


And that is just another reason I use the ignore feature..... some people just want to be offended, the need to be a victim is amazing.


----------



## susieneddy

MO_cows said:


> Well duh, because that was the topic. You read more into my words than was actually there. A boy/girl couple getting carried away with their physical affection at prom would be a different thread.


you could have said any couple getting carried away with their physical attention at the prom but you didn't.


----------



## Evons hubby

kasilofhome said:


> Really...is it that much difference.


Yes there is.... While the topic is about fruits and nuts, and we all know apples and oranges are fruits.... but their similarities stop there.


----------



## Bearfootfarm

kasilofhome said:


> And that is just another reason I use the ignore feature..... some people just want to be offended, the need to be a victim is amazing.


That's also why you only get a one sided view of reality


----------



## MO_cows

susieneddy said:


> you could have said any couple getting carried away with their physical attention at the prom but you didn't.


Again, "any couple" wasn't the subject of discussion. I could have said, yo ho ho and a bottle of rum, but that wouldn't have been relevant either. You are taking it out of context.


----------



## gapeach

About Bruce or Caitlyn, I think this is so right on and the way I and many more people feel. My sister and I finally agree on something too. We both loved Bruce Jenner as he was as an Olympic medal winner, wonderful personality and so...... good looking too! I still wish him well and hope he will be happy.

Bruce Jenner: âCall me Caitlynâ Dear Bruce: âI Canâtâ
http://joedallas.com/blog/index.php/2015/06/01/bruce-jenner-call-me-caitlyn-dear-bruce-i-cant/


----------



## MO_cows

According to talk radio, there is a petition started to strip Jenner of his Olympic metals. Now that is just ridiculous. While I admit I am sick of hearing about him/her, and I have lost some respect for Jenner by him transforming into such a younger woman than his actual age, that is a separate issue from the athletic performance. He earned those medals and they have nothing to do with his issues today.


----------



## Cornhusker

MO_cows said:


> According to talk radio, there is a petition started to strip Jenner of his Olympic metals. Now that is just ridiculous. While I admit I am sick of hearing about him/her, and I have lost some respect for Jenner by him transforming into such a younger woman than his actual age, that is a separate issue from the athletic performance. He earned those medals and they have nothing to do with his issues today.


I agree


----------



## Jolly

In the constant societal spiral of defining deviancy downward, is there no floor? Is there any act that cannot be rationalized to a state of normalcy or enlightenment?

At what point in our society did a God-fearing American expressing a Biblically-backed opinion, become labeled a "hater"? Has our society succumbed to a twisted version of Red Queen Rules, where wherever what many think is right, is right simply because they say so?

Cue Caligula, for surely The End draws nigh.

I feel sorry for Mr. Jenner, as he must be suffering from mental illness - if not proven by his current public escapade, then by the fact that he married into a certified bunch of nuts.

Poor man. Poor sad, delusional man...


----------



## Tiempo

> In the constant societal spiral of defining deviancy downward, is there no floor?


personally, I felt the floor was hit and crashed through to the sub basement when some started defending pedophilia recently.


----------



## kasilofhome

Finally, there is a limit. Thus far it's been a free for all as you enjoying yourself. Personally, I found that a sad reality of society today.


----------



## mmoetc

kasilofhome said:


> Finally, there is a limit. Thus far it's been a free for all as you enjoying yourself. Personally, I found that a sad reality of society today.


There's always been a limit, even among those you disagree with. It's called consenting adults. Not a difficult concept for most to grasp. I'm still awaiting an answer from you on how far the government can intrude in your bedroom, by the way.


----------



## Tricky Grama

Tiempo said:


> personally, I felt the floor was hit and crashed through to the sub basement when some started defending pedophilia recently.


I missed that, in this thread? Who?


----------



## Oxankle

I favor the view of the black writer, Sylvia Thompson. She's a bit more religiously oriented than I, but I am with her on the abhorrence of deviancy. Perversion is perversion and no prettying it up is going to take away the stench. Did any of you know that Jenner has several children by two women, married three times and his movies stink? Neither did I. Did you care? Neither did I, nor do I now.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caitlyn_Jenner
http://www.renewamerica.com/columns/sthompson/150605


----------



## Irish Pixie

Oxankle said:


> I favor the view of the black writer, Sylvia Thompson. She's a bit more religiously oriented than I, but I am with her on the abhorrence of deviancy. Perversion is perversion and no prettying it up is going to take away the stench.


We're back to "perversion" eh? What you do in your bedroom is totally up to what you're comfortable with. I'm not letting _your_ opinion effect what _I_ do in _my_ bedroom, and neither should anyone else. In the case of my (or anyone for that matter) personal life you're opinion isn't worth a hill of beans.


----------



## Evons hubby

Jolly said:


> At what point in our society did a God-fearing American expressing a Biblically-backed opinion, become labeled a "hater"?


ummmm 1865?


----------



## Tiempo

Tricky Grama said:


> I missed that, in this thread? Who?


Why does it need to be in this thread? 

The comment I responded to and quoted referenced 'society'. Society exists both within and outside of this thread.


----------



## Cornhusker

Irish Pixie said:


> We're back to "perversion" eh? What you do in your bedroom is totally up to what you're comfortable with. I'm not letting _your_ opinion effect what _I_ do in _my_ bedroom, and neither should anyone else. In the case of my (or anyone for that matter) personal life you're opinion isn't worth a hill of beans.


I agree, in your bedroom, in private.
Most people don't flaunt their sex lives, but then there are some who have to shove it in your face.
Those are the people who get the attention, good and bad.
Personally, I don't care what kind of tomfoolery people are up to.
If you don't want people making fun of you or talking about you, stop parading your sex life.
Pretty simple really


----------



## Irish Pixie

Cornhusker said:


> I agree, in your bedroom, in private.
> Most people don't flaunt their sex lives, but then there are some who have to shove it in your face.
> Those are the people who get the attention, good and bad.
> Personally, I don't care what kind of tomfoolery people are up to.
> If you don't want people making fun of you or talking about you, stop parading your sex life.
> Pretty simple really


I'm not a fan of excessive PDA either... but I don't just point out one group of people. Hand holding or a quick kiss is fine, groping and such is not and I don't care who your partner is.


----------



## mmoetc

Cornhusker said:


> I agree, in your bedroom, in private.
> Most people don't flaunt their sex lives, but then there are some who have to shove it in your face.
> Those are the people who get the attention, good and bad.
> Personally, I don't care what kind of tomfoolery people are up to.
> If you don't want people making fun of you or talking about you, stop parading your sex life.
> Pretty simple really


Define parading. Are the standards the same for all couples. Can my wife and I hold hands in public without being accused of parading our sex life in front of you. How about a quick kiss goodbye at the airport? Or a slightly longer kiss hello when I return after a week on the road? Can Bill and Bob do the same without "parading"? How about Jill and Suzie?


----------



## Cornhusker

mmoetc said:


> Define parading. Are the standards the same for all couples. Can my wife and I hold hands in public without being accused of parading our sex life in front of you. How about a quick kiss goodbye at the airport? Or a slightly longer kiss hello when I return after a week on the road? Can Bill and Bob do the same without "parading"? How about Jill and Suzie?


Well, they do have parades, but I personally think that the standards should be the same, although straight people don't have activist groups promoting their sex lives.
If there were straight pride parades, straight political groups, they would be denounced as "hate" groups.
It's a circus out there, and for some reason, the left wants us arguing about stupid things like Bruce being a girl and not paying attention to what our tyrant in chief is actually up to.


----------



## emdeengee

I think we most certainly do have straight/ hetero parades. Those teeny tiny majorette uniforms are for the titillation of the male population. Same for the cheerleaders. Of course there could be a few Lesbians in the crowd who also get a thrill so I guess we should call them sexually mixed parades.


----------



## mmoetc

Cornhusker said:


> Well, they do have parades, but I personally think that the standards should be the same, although straight people don't have activist groups promoting their sex lives.
> If there were straight pride parades, straight political groups, they would be denounced as "hate" groups.
> It's a circus out there, and for some reason, the left wants us arguing about stupid things like Bruce being a girl and not paying attention to what our tyrant in chief is actually up to.


And, yet, here you are. If you don't wish to argue or even pay attention to such trivial things walk away.


----------



## Irish Pixie

Cornhusker said:


> Well, they do have parades, but I personally think that the standards should be the same, although straight people don't have activist groups promoting their sex lives.
> If there were straight pride parades, straight political groups, they would be denounced as "hate" groups.
> It's a circus out there, and for some reason, the left wants us arguing about stupid things like Bruce being a girl and not paying attention to what our *tyrant* *in **chief* is actually up to.


They have gay parades because they weren't allowed to march in the other ones... and I'm paying attention to the message any longer because of the name calling.


----------



## Nevada

Cornhusker said:


> our tyrant in chief


If we had tyranny in this country you wouldn't be allowed to say so. Tyrannical governments are characterized by absolute rule, and freedom of expression is always the first to go.

The mere fact that you call Obama a tyrant demonstrates that he's not.


----------



## Tricky Grama

Tiempo said:


> Why does it need to be in this thread?
> 
> The comment I responded to and quoted referenced 'society'. Society exists both within and outside of this thread.


I'm asking, b/c I did not see it in this thread, nor did I see it at all, hence the: I must've missed it ?...
You said "someone defended pedophilia recently"...I did not see that.


----------



## JeffreyD

Nevada said:


> If we had tyranny in this country you wouldn't be allowed to say so. Tyrannical governments are characterized by absolute rule, and freedom of expression is always the first to go.
> 
> The mere fact that you call Obama a tyrant demonstrates that he's not.


Are you saying that nobody has gone to jail for exercising their first amendment rights under this administration?


----------



## Irish Pixie

JeffreyD said:


> Are you saying that nobody has gone to jail for exercising their first amendment rights under this administration?


Dang. Where was that even remotely implied in Nevada's post? 

It's not nice to put your words into someone else's post.


----------



## JeffreyD

Irish Pixie said:


> Dang. Where was that even remotely implied in Nevada's post?
> 
> It's not nice to put your words into someone else's post.


Nevada posted this:

This is where it was implied. I'm starting to better understand about your reading comprehension issue!

"*If we had tyranny in this country you wouldn't be allowed to say so.* Tyrannical governments are characterized by absolute rule, and *freedom of expression is always the first to go.*

The mere fact that you call Obama a tyrant demonstrates that he's not."

You said:

"It's not nice to put your words into someone else's post."

Why do YOU do it then?

I asked a very simple question, all you want to do is follow me around and argue. ound:


----------



## Cornhusker

Nevada said:


> If we had tyranny in this country you wouldn't be allowed to say so. Tyrannical governments are characterized by absolute rule, and freedom of expression is always the first to go.
> 
> The mere fact that you call Obama a tyrant demonstrates that he's not.


He ain't done yet.
He's getting crazier and weirder with every passing day


----------



## Cornhusker

emdeengee said:


> I think we most certainly do have straight/ hetero parades. Those teeny tiny majorette uniforms are for the titillation of the male population. Same for the cheerleaders. Of course there could be a few Lesbians in the crowd who also get a thrill so I guess we should call them sexually mixed parades.


That's kind of a stretch
Who said gays aren't allowed to march in parades?
I've seen parades with people known to be gay along with other folks.
It wasn't about sex or lifestyle choices, it was usually a 4th of July parade, Homecoming parade or sometimes a founders day thing.
Nobody tried to pull them out of the parade, nobody threw fruit at them, nobody paid them much attention.
Maybe that was the problem.


----------



## Cornhusker

mmoetc said:


> And, yet, here you are. If you don't wish to argue or even pay attention to such trivial things walk away.


In other words, I'm to shut up and keep my opinions to myself if I don't agree with the liberal thought police?


----------



## kasilofhome

Cornhusker said:


> In other words, I'm to shut up and keep my opinions to myself if I don't agree with the liberal thought police?


Remember please be publicly controlled at all time political correctness is so freedomish,in a controlling way. Censorship is the way of the future to allow the minority to claim a majority.


----------



## fordy

.............Parades........ok , has anyone hereabouts heard of the .....Doo Dah parade out in Pasadena , Califorina ? It is a local , yearly event I believe . Well a google tells me it was a counter culture event to spoof the Rose bowl parade ! They have entrants like the "Lawnmower Drill Team" , Snooty Scotty and the Hankies marching band , the Precision Circumcision Health service , lol , etc . , fordy


----------



## Irish Pixie

fordy said:


> .............Parades........ok , has anyone hereabouts heard of the .....DO Da parade out in some town in Califorina ? It is a local , yearly event I believe . , fordy


No, I haven't. What kind of parade is it?


----------



## JeffreyD

Irish Pixie said:


> No, I haven't. What kind of parade is it?


It's a diverse get together of unusual type folks.

http://pasadenadoodahparade.info/about/

On Doo Dah day, the street will swell with a memorable cast of local eccentrics, dissenters, pundits, lone wolfs, steam punks, and merrymakers who comprise the Moveable Feast, the Mile-High Bed, a parody of not-so-traditional airline behavior, the Candy Girls, Flying Babies Trapeze, The Army of Toy Soldiers, beer boosting rockers Drunk in the Garage, Kinetic Pastry Science Mobile Muffins, The Billionaires, Vegetables of Laguna Beach, Cheesus Chrust Pizza Company, the indescribable Diatomaceous Love Monkeys, OC Normlâs Mardi Grass, Partying Parrotheads, the visually spectacular Songbird Robot, and legendary Doo Dah house band Snotty Scotty & the Hankiesâ¦ AMONG OTHERS!! 

It's quite interesting and very funny!


----------



## mmoetc

Cornhusker said:


> In other words, I'm to shut up and keep my opinions to myself if I don't agree with the liberal thought police?


The choice is yours. You can walk away and discuss those vitally important matters you spoke of, you can remain here and wallow in the left wing conspiracy of Caitlyn, you can do both, you can do neither. It's a free country.


----------



## mmoetc

kasilofhome said:


> Remember please be publicly controlled at all time political correctness is so freedomish,in a controlling way. Censorship is the way of the future to allow the minority to claim a majority.


Did you get the jumbo pack of victomhood cards? Seems like you might have run out by now. But as long as you're here- what are the limits of the government looking into your bedroom. Or is it just ok to victimize others?


----------



## mmoetc

Cornhusker said:


> That's kind of a stretch
> Who said gays aren't allowed to march in parades?
> I've seen parades with people known to be gay along with other folks.
> It wasn't about sex or lifestyle choices, it was usually a 4th of July parade, Homecoming parade or sometimes a founders day thing.
> Nobody tried to pull them out of the parade, nobody threw fruit at them, nobody paid them much attention.
> Maybe that was the problem.


These people said they couldn't. http://m.nydailynews.com/new-york/gay-group-march-st-patrick-day-parade-organizers-article-1.1925881

And a few others.


----------



## JeffreyD

mmoetc said:


> Did you get the jumbo pack of victomhood cards? Seems like you might have run out by now. But as long as you're here- *what are the limits of the government looking into your bedroom.* Or is it just ok to victimize others?


I'll answer for me. 

The government shouldn't be in my bedroom, kitchen, bathroom, basement, porch, front or back yard, church, mosque, synagogue, school, business, etc... Ever. Defend the borders, Create and maintain you road and rail infrastructure, protect our merchant mariners. You get my point!


----------



## kasilofhome

I don't have any Windows.... good luck

I really do live underground.
Oh forgot...no bedroom it's all open


----------



## mmoetc

JeffreyD said:


> I'll answer for me.
> 
> The government shouldn't be in my bedroom, kitchen, bathroom, basement, porch, front or back yard, church, mosque, synagogue, school, business, etc... Ever. Defend the borders, Create and maintain you road and rail infrastructure, protect our merchant mariners. You get my point!


It's actually a point we mainly agree on. Government does have a role in regulating commerce which does let it intrude into your business.


----------



## Patchouli

beowoulf90 said:


> As I stated earlier one of the studies I've read has transgenders at approx 20% suicide rate.. Why? from my understanding some things just can't be undone...
> 
> It has to do with the "grass being greener on the other side of the fence" complex..


Or maybe it's because of all the hate they suffer from people who can't get their heads around their situation? Imagine being transgender and just wading through this thread......


----------



## JeffreyD

mmoetc said:


> It's actually a point we mainly agree on. Government does have a role in regulating commerce which does let it intrude into your business.


I would say it depends on the business, but, i still don't think what i do is any of their business. The only reason they are is for the money, and to make sure we pay, or else.

OT.... I got a refund from the IRS today for $3300.08 for over payment of my "estimated" income from last year. Ok, my accountant says their wrong, but the point here is they fined me $89.00 for over payment. A fine for OVER PAYMENT! They just can't get enough of our money to waste. It's insane.


----------



## Patchouli

chamoisee said:


> You know what? Let's say you're all correct and my friends and I are freaks. Still. Do you have be to mean and nasty? Whatever happened to not saying anything at all if you don't have something nice to say? At least once a week, I am talking someone out of killing themselves. Usually, it's because they feel hopeless, alone, and just can't take it anymore. They feel isolated and afraid. It's not so hard to be nice, to be polite. And for people who are already teetering on the edge, it could make a life or death difference. You might be surprised how much of a difference a smile or a pleasant comment, to a random stranger, would make. And most of the time, we will never know for sure....but we can all try our best to be making a *positive* difference in the world.


I just want to say kudos to you for sticking it out in this thread and being so kind and trying to inform people. I could not do it. It makes me sick to see some of the stuff written here. You are by far better the person here.


----------



## Patchouli

fordy said:


> .............I don't think anyone , here , has referred to you'll as "freaks" ! IF , you had met me in person , I would have extended to you the same respect as I would any person I had just met . My anger is focused upon anyone who , tries , to take away my right to express my opinion about them OR their lifestyle in a public forum . And , that is exactly what happens , more often than not when I speak up . Does that mean I will use any kind of revullisive(not a proper word) adjectives to demean another person just because I don't happen to agree with their sexual choice........No , I don't engage in that kind of conversation .
> .............If , you lived next door to me , I would be the best neighbor I could be , as long as you didn't try to force your lifestyle on me . What you do in the privacy of your home is your business . , fordy


I will just let your own words answer that:



fordy said:


> ...........I'll tell you why , because it's all about forcing the QUEER agenda into the conscious mindset of the general public at large , BY , the Major networks except FOX !!! You'll notice we now have boys and grown Queers kissing each other in public like it is some kind of normal societal behavior !
> ...........These major media folks think they're going to force the general populas to completely change their long held attitudes relative to ANAL intercouse by shaming anyone who dares speak out against such behavior .
> ............OF course , if the issue was put to a vote in national referendum it would FAIL every time . So now ,atleast for the forseeable future , the courts and liberal politicans are the Queers best buddies and champion their issue . Things will change and the NON Queers will eventually make necessary corrections to the legal and political system . The ebb and flow of history always come full circle . , fordy:yawn:


----------



## chamoisee

Cornhusker said:


> I agree, in your bedroom, in private.
> Most people don't flaunt their sex lives, but then there are some who have to shove it in your face.
> Those are the people who get the attention, good and bad.
> Personally, I don't care what kind of tomfoolery people are up to.
> If you don't want people making fun of you or talking about you, stop parading your sex life.
> Pretty simple really


So, the thing is, this isn't about Jenner's *sex life.* This is about Jenner's *gender identity.* 

Those are two very, very different things. It may surprise you to learn that there are transgender people who are asexual. There are even transgender people who go through ALL of the surgery (there is not a single "operation"), and who are still asexual. Transgender people do *not* go through transition (any stage or form of transition) in order to have sex differently. Having sex is not the goal. The goal is to be able to look at oneself in the mirror without feeling incredibly disturbing, upsetting dissonance when you look into the mirror and see a person that you don't recognize, a person who doesn't look like you feel, at all. The goal is to shed the shame, the disparity between inner and outer reality. The goal is to be able to get up in the morning and get dressed for work without feeling suicidal. 

I realize that the media gives a very distorted perspective of transgender women, particularly when they are conflated with cross-dressers or men who dress up in order to get a sexual thrill, but who don't actually feel that they are female (it is merely a sexy game for such people, a fetish). There is this perception than transwomen are oversexed, predatory types who are actively trying to trick men into sleeping with them etc etc. 

The only thing that transgender means is that a person is acutely uncomfortable with the gender they were assigned at birth, and would like to live in a way that more accurately reflects their inner identity. That's *all* it means. Many trans people never get surgery at all. Some never go on hormones. The *only* thing you can know for certain when someone says that they are transgender, is that they have experienced conflict with the gender they were originally associated with.


----------



## chamoisee

For what it's worth, many transgender people are wanting to not be lumped in with lesbians, gays, and bisexuals, because of that confusion. There is a movement to take the "T" out of LGBT. I disagree with that, but it does make a certain amount of sense.


----------



## kasilofhome

JeffreyD said:


> I would say it depends on the business, but, i still don't think what i do is any of their business. The only reason they are is for the money, and to make sure we pay, or else.
> 
> OT.... I got a refund from the IRS today for $3300.08 for over payment of my "estimated" income from last year. Ok, my accountant says their wrong, but the point here is they fined me $89.00 for over payment. A fine for OVER PAYMENT! They just can't get enough of our money to waste. It's insane.


That's is sad.... and sorry funny.


----------



## chamoisee

Patchouli said:


> Or maybe it's because of all the hate they suffer from people who can't get their heads around their situation? Imagine being transgender and just wading through this thread......


For the majority of them, it is because they lose *everything* when they transition. More often than not, they lose their spouse/partner, their kids, their entire family, their friends, their house, their jobs..... This is often true even when the couple was originally same sex to begin with. And then, after all that loss, they might not "pass". If you can't pass, you are potentially in mortal danger, every day. It is hard to pass if you are otherwise female appearing, but 6.5 feet tall with enormous feet, or if you're dressed as a man but 5 feet tall with delicate features and a voice that isn't low enough to pass as a guy. When you don't pass, people make comments. They grab their kids protectively, even though you have zero interest in kids. Societal rejection is very, very difficult. 

Nobody would do this on a whim, or just wake up one day and say "Hey! Guess what! I think it'd be fun to be a girl!". The people who are going through this typically experience years of internal conflict, often for their entire lives, before they start to transition. They have tried everything else you can think of, without success, and if there was a different way for them to find peace, they would do it.


----------



## Irish Pixie

chamoisee said:


> For the majority of them, it is because they lose *everything* when they transition. More often than not, they lose their spouse/partner, their kids, their entire family, their friends, their house, their jobs..... This is often true even when the couple was originally same sex to begin with. And then, after all that loss, they might not "pass". If you can't pass, you are potentially in mortal danger, every day. It is hard to pass if you are otherwise female appearing, but 6.5 feet tall with enormous feet, or if you're dressed as a man but 5 feet tall with delicate features and a voice that isn't low enough to pass as a guy. When you don't pass, people make comments. They grab their kids protectively, even though you have zero interest in kids. Societal rejection is very, very difficult.
> 
> Nobody would do this on a whim, or just wake up one day and say "Hey! Guess what! I think it'd be fun to be a girl!". The people who are going through this typically experience years of internal conflict, often for their entire lives, before they start to transition. They have tried everything else you can think of, without success, and if there was a different way for them to find peace, they would do it.


I wish I could like this more than once.


----------



## mmoetc

kasilofhome said:


> I don't have any Windows.... good luck
> 
> I really do live underground.
> Oh forgot...no bedroom it's all open


I have no problem believing you live underground. Based on your posts here I doubt it's very "open". That doesn't really answer the question, though. How far can the government insert itself into your abode. Who gets to decide if what you and your loved one do is a "perversion" or an act of love and physical sharing. Why does what others do concern you so much?


----------



## Jolly

I'm always amused at the vehemence the LGBT crowd uses to defend any issue that might possibly cast them or their lifestyles choices in a negative light.

It's almost like deep down, their is a knot of insecurity. A longing for acceptance. A need to change everyone's viewpoint, even unto the point of castigation of others.

Next stop, many LGBT folks will pass the point of acceptance and will begin looking for validation. I assume once that is achieved with a certain segment of the population, the next step will be superiority.

And the MSM eats it up, as they use their megaphone in this web of bread and circuses.


----------



## Tricky Grama

emdeengee said:


> I think we most certainly do have straight/ hetero parades. Those teeny tiny majorette uniforms are for the titillation of the male population. Same for the cheerleaders. Of course there could be a few Lesbians in the crowd who also get a thrill so I guess we should call them sexually mixed parades.


Sure, on your last statement.
But to be accurate, the hetero parade w/have to celebrate the sexuality of heterosexuals to really be comparing the 2 types of parades.

I think we all know that if a person if troubled all their life, if they cannot live the way they believe they should & they decide to 'transition', it should be no one's biz. 
Problem is, all their friends & family would know. It would be the hardest thing, I think. Many of their friends/family prolly would not accept this. It is NOT NORMAL. Normal is hetero. Understanding is also hard but no one needs to be cruel.
I know that will get a rise, but please, look at the #s. Transgenders are something like .01%...I heard yesterday on the radio...personally I think it could be more. But this is just not the normal thing to do. It is out of the norm, maybe I should say.
Most have seen female impersonators. Some could say its hard to tell the dif. Then again, there's people who may be 'impersonators' or who may be 'in transition'..Its the one's who are born male who dress outlandish, who wear make up to the extent that heads turn, stare & guffaw. 
IF they do not want to call unwanted attention to themselves, they know how to do that.


----------



## Tricky Grama

Irish Pixie said:


> They have gay parades because they weren't allowed to march in the other ones... and I'm paying attention to the message any longer because of the name calling.


What makes you think gay people cannot participate in a parade? Ever been to mardi gras?


----------



## Tricky Grama

Nevada said:


> If we had tyranny in this country you wouldn't be allowed to say so. Tyrannical governments are characterized by absolute rule, and freedom of expression is always the first to go.
> 
> The mere fact that you call Obama a tyrant demonstrates that he's not.


Maybe Tyrant in Training would be a better term, have you not seen the attempts to lead the press as well as silence them? Worse than Nixon for calling out news & reporters, no admin has ever had the FBI investigate a reporter & his parents! No other POTUS had a czar who believed that free speech is overrated!


----------



## Tricky Grama

Cornhusker said:


> He ain't done yet.
> He's getting crazier and weirder with every passing day


Wasn't the maker of the video that dissed islam arrested? Put in jail at least briefly?


----------



## Cornhusker

mmoetc said:


> How far can the government insert itself into your abode. Who gets to decide if what you and your loved one do is a "perversion" or an act of love and physical sharing. Why does what others do concern you so much?


Sounds like a job for the ever invasive Obamacare


----------



## Cornhusker

Just to lighten the mood :hysterical:


----------



## Irish Pixie

Tricky Grama said:


> What makes you think gay people cannot participate in a parade? Ever been to mardi gras?


Mardi Gras is a free for all where every type of hedonism is celebrated. I was referring to real parades, like the St. Patrick Day parades in Boston and NYC both of which denied gays for years. This year was the first time a gay group (there were actually two) were allowed in the parade in Boston.


----------



## Cornhusker

Irish Pixie said:


> Mardi Gras is a free for all where every type of hedonism is celebrated. I was referring to real parades, like the St. Patrick Day parades in Boston and NYC both of which denied gays for years. This year was the first time a gay group (there were actually two) were allowed in the parade in Boston.


How did they know they were gay so they could deny them?
I would think if they showed up in chaps and a thong, or women's lingerie, yeah, they probably wouldn't be allowed to march in a public parade where families bring their children.
I seriously doubt if they were denied simply because they were "gay"


----------



## kasilofhome

mmoetc said:


> I have no problem believing you live underground. Based on your posts here I doubt it's very "open". That doesn't really answer the question, though. How far can the government insert itself into your abode. Who gets to decide if what you and your loved one do is a "perversion" or an act of love and physical sharing. Why does what others do concern you so much?


See,you have to ask because you have no clue as to what I do. Sex is a personal option, and of yet not a televised event at the Olympics. You can only assume and seek to brow beat those who have old fashion class.

My concern is that disgusting (that is acceptable term to you on ht when discussing sex that one disapproves of note my answering your question repeating terms not deleted nor banned by other members on another perversion.... child on child sex) homosexual perversion should not be glorified and touted as normal. I feel sorry for personal unresolved issues that lead individuals to such behavior and I am not showing support for what I find disgusting behavior so personally do what you want in private. It's not necessary to Facebook every possible position you find yourself in. 

Fyi... not interested in anyone's private sex acts.... just make it public and I am free to express my disgust.


----------



## Tricky Grama

New Orleans is gonna be surprised to hear their parade is not a 'real' one.


----------



## Jolly

Irish Pixie said:


> Mardi Gras is a free for all where every type of hedonism is celebrated. I was referring to real parades, like the St. Patrick Day parades in Boston and NYC both of which denied gays for years. This year was the first time a gay group (there were actually two) were allowed in the parade in Boston.


That's not acceptance, that's validation. As has been stated, I'm sure most parades contain a few gay folks. They're usually marching as police, firefighters or members of a band.

Why this?


----------



## Patchouli

Jolly said:


> I'm always amused at the vehemence the LGBT crowd uses to defend any issue that might possibly cast them or their lifestyles choices in a negative light.
> 
> It's almost like deep down, their is a knot of insecurity. A longing for acceptance. A need to change everyone's viewpoint, even unto the point of castigation of others.
> 
> Next stop, many LGBT folks will pass the point of acceptance and will begin looking for validation. I assume once that is achieved with a certain segment of the population, the next step will be superiority.
> 
> And the MSM eats it up, as they use their megaphone in this web of bread and circuses.


ound: Um I would change that first sentence to the Christian crowd just look at the Josh Duggar defense around here or the 2nd amendmenters, just look at the crazy you see here when a gun nut does something horrible or stupid, or maybe the tin foil hatters, just go post something disparaging in S&EP. 
Or if you really want to start a war here say something bad about big scale agriculture!  Simple fact is everybody defends their particular little beliefs or group. Sometimes well past the point of absurdity or any sort of basic decency. 

So far in this thread I have seen the usual backwards ugly heaped on and one woman very kindly and intelligently responding to it. I think it's pretty easy to see who needs this and it is not who you seem to think it is:



> It's almost like deep down, their is a knot of insecurity. A longing for acceptance. A need to change everyone's viewpoint, even unto the point of castigation of others.


----------



## kasilofhome

Hey, since gender is now not set in stone and race is being questioned as set in stone decried by DNA..... how can affirmative action be scored. Gender and race is a fluid perception no longer based on science but emotions.


----------



## Jolly

Interesting...

[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8bo-70Mm4oI[/ame]


----------



## JeffreyD

Patchouli said:


> ound: Um I would change that first sentence to the Christian crowd just look at the Josh Duggar defense around here or the 2nd amendmenters, just look at the crazy you see here when a gun nut does something horrible or stupid, or maybe the tin foil hatters, just go post something disparaging in S&EP.
> Or if you really want to start a war here say something bad about big scale agriculture!  Simple fact is everybody defends their particular little beliefs or group. Sometimes well past the point of absurdity or any sort of basic decency.
> 
> So far in this thread I have seen the usual backwards ugly heaped on and one woman very kindly and intelligently responding to it. I think it's pretty easy to see who needs this and it is not who you seem to think it is:


Ugly is in the eye of the beholder. I see ugly too.


----------



## chamoisee

kasilofhome said:


> Hey, since gender is now not set in stone and race is being questioned as set in stone decried by DNA..... how can affirmative action be scored. Gender and race is a fluid perception no longer based on science but emotions.


Emotion has nothing to do with it. There are biological differences between the brains of people who are transgender, and those who are not. If I recall correctly, there are genetic markers as well...


----------



## FeralFemale

JeffreyD said:


> Ugly is in the eye of the beholder. I see ugly too.


Yes. I was away from the board for a while and have noticed a distinct change in how folks are speaking to one another. Folks have gotten kind of nasty. Not just this on thread. I've seen it in elsewhere on GC, too. 

I guess we are going back to the 'flame proof undies' days?


----------



## JeffreyD

chamoisee said:


> Emotion has nothing to do with it. There are biological differences between the brains of people who are transgender, and those who are not. If I recall correctly, there are genetic markers as well...


It would be helpful if you could post a few links so I can have a better understanding of this. Only because my doctor told me there are no genetic markers for lbgt folks. Thanks.


----------



## JeffreyD

FeralFemale said:


> Yes. I was away from the board for a while and have noticed a distinct change in how folks are speaking to one another. Folks have gotten kind of nasty. Not just this on thread. I've seen it in elsewhere on GC, too.
> 
> I guess we are going back to the 'flame proof undies' days?


It certainly appears that way!


----------



## Irish Pixie

FeralFemale said:


> Yes. I was away from the board for a while and have noticed a distinct change in how folks are speaking to one another. Folks have gotten kind of nasty. Not just this on thread. I've seen it in elsewhere on GC, too.
> 
> I guess we are going back to the 'flame proof undies' days?


Until recently you could get infractions for disagreeing with the former admin's friends, or the thread would be locked if it didn't agree with the preferred political party or belief system, in my opinion. 

The moderation is much more impartial now. It's a good thing.


----------



## Irish Pixie

Cornhusker said:


> How did they know they were gay so they could deny them?
> I would think if they showed up in chaps and a thong, or women's lingerie, yeah, they probably wouldn't be allowed to march in a public parade where families bring their children.
> I seriously doubt if they were denied simply because they were "gay"


. 

Well, you'd be wrong. Ever watch a St. Paddy's Day parade in NY or Boston? They have signs at the head of every group, and I imagine the gay groups were rainbow.


----------



## Irish Pixie

Jolly said:


> That's not acceptance, that's validation. As has been stated, I'm sure most parades contain a few gay folks. They're usually marching as police, firefighters or members of a band.
> 
> Why this?


Call it validation if it makes you feel better, it's fine with me.

What's the point of the gay Vets pic? Was it in the St Paddy's Day parade in Boston? Or NY? I think that's what I used as a reference...


----------



## Irish Pixie

chamoisee said:


> Emotion has nothing to do with it. There are biological differences between the brains of people who are transgender, and those who are not. If I recall correctly, there are genetic markers as well...


The science of gender won't be accepted by many here... Sad, but true.

It's absolutely a waste of time to provide links. They'll just say it's "liberal mumbo jumbo" or some such thing.


----------



## Jolly

Irish Pixie said:


> Call it validation if it makes you feel better, it's fine with me.
> 
> What's the point of the gay Vets pic? Was it in the St Paddy's Day parade in Boston? Or NY? I think that's what I used as a reference...


Boston, I believe.


----------



## Jolly

Irish Pixie said:


> The science of gender won't be accepted by many here... Sad, but true.
> 
> It's absolutely a waste of time to provide links. They'll just say it's "liberal mumbo jumbo" or some such thing.


There is no peer reviewed science worth a durn that supports a gay or transgendered gene. Trot out any link you wish.


----------



## Irish Pixie

Jolly said:


> Boston, I believe.


If it was Boston, it was from this year's parade. This year (2015) is the first year that Boston allowed gay groups, just as I stated in my prior post.


----------



## JeffreyD

Irish Pixie said:


> The science of gender won't be accepted by many here... Sad, but true.
> 
> It's absolutely a waste of time to provide links. They'll just say it's "liberal mumbo jumbo" or some such thing.


So now your a mind reader too? You just can't stop throwing barbs, fine with me, but no more whining when stuff come back at you.

If you provide links to huffpo, your right, but post a link from a peer reviewed journal like science, and it will carry more weight. I think there was a fudged survey about gay acceptance that was just retracted though.

But, I just can't take any bodies word for it. Just like you won't take mine.


----------



## Bearfootfarm

Tricky Grama said:


> Wasn't the maker of the video that dissed islam arrested? Put in jail at least briefly?


He was jailed for a probation violation, and not actually for the video itself

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nakoula_Basseley_Nakoula


----------



## chamoisee

JeffreyD said:


> It would be helpful if you could post a few links so I can have a better understanding of this. Only because my doctor told me there are no genetic markers for lbgt folks. Thanks.


I'm not sure that there are for lesbians or gays. But what we are discovering in relation to transgender people is that intersex conditions are much more far reaching than visibly apparent ambiguous genitalia. Many people who have an intersex condition are completely unaware of it, as are their doctors. Here is a link which relates to non-binary gender and biology: http://www.nature.com/news/sex-redefined-1.16943


----------



## chamoisee

http://is.gd/7k3DrK


----------



## chamoisee

http://is.gd/7fqaCM

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/7477289

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10843193



http://transascity.org/the-transgender-brain/

http://is.gd/XgTqxx


----------



## chamoisee

Jolly said:


> There is no peer reviewed science worth a durn that supports a gay or transgendered gene. Trot out any link you wish.


Jolly, there is a difference between a "gay/trans gene" and a genetic basis or genetic evidence for being gay or trans. There's no single autism gene either, but there is plenty of evidence that autistic people have biological differences in their brains, from an early age. Similarly, there is evidence that developmentally, things can go wrong as a fetus develops, causing there to be a distinct difference between the brain's gender and the gender of the body which has developed.


----------



## wr

FeralFemale said:


> Yes. I was away from the board for a while and have noticed a distinct change in how folks are speaking to one another. Folks have gotten kind of nasty. Not just this on thread. I've seen it in elsewhere on GC, too.
> 
> I guess we are going back to the 'flame proof undies' days?


I'm not sure about going back to the flameproof undies days but members wanted less moderation and infractions used as a last resort but mods are starting to consider using the infractions a bit more because it is getting pretty ugly.


----------



## chamoisee

Actually, it's feeling more like the old Countryside/HT I remember.


----------



## Jolly

chamoisee said:


> Jolly, there is a difference between a "gay/trans gene" and a genetic basis or genetic evidence for being gay or trans. There's no single autism gene either, but there is plenty of evidence that autistic people have biological differences in their brains, from an early age. Similarly, there is evidence that developmentally, things can go wrong as a fetus develops, causing there to be a distinct difference between the brain's gender and the gender of the body which has developed.


Give me the study showing a gay gene exists.

Until then, this is argument embroidery. It looks ok, but it does not contribute to the function of the argument.


----------



## Patchouli

Jolly said:


> Give me the study showing a gay gene exists.
> 
> Until then, this is argument embroidery. It looks ok, but it does not contribute to the function of the argument.


It only looks like argument embroidery if you know nothing about genetics.


----------



## chamoisee

Jolly said:


> Give me the study showing a gay gene exists.
> 
> Until then, this is argument embroidery. It looks ok, but it does not contribute to the function of the argument.


Did you read through the scientific articles I cited? There is a biological basis for gender identity problems. I did NOT say that a "gay gene" exists. There's a reason why I didn't say that there's a gay gene: I don't think that there is a gay gene, or at least not a single gay gene.


----------



## chamoisee

http://www.popsci.com/scitech/artic...ranssexual-gene-raises-more-questions-answers


----------



## chamoisee

Twin study: http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/j.1743-6109.2011.02567.x/abstract

Identical twins show a correlation of 39.1% for gender identity disorder. 

Fraternal twins show NO correlation, whether they are same sex fraternal or opposite sex fraternal twins.


----------



## JJ Grandits

Changing his name to Caitlyn, adding phony boobs and wearing a dress does not make him a female. genetically and physically he is still a man. A really, really, messed up basketcase of a man. Supporting his psychosis is doing him no favors.


----------



## mmoetc

kasilofhome said:


> See,you have to ask because you have no clue as to what I do. Sex is a personal option, and of yet not a televised event at the Olympics. You can only assume and seek to brow beat those who have old fashion class.
> 
> My concern is that disgusting (that is acceptable term to you on ht when discussing sex that one disapproves of note my answering your question repeating terms not deleted nor banned by other members on another perversion.... child on child sex) homosexual perversion should not be glorified and touted as normal. I feel sorry for personal unresolved issues that lead individuals to such behavior and I am not showing support for what I find disgusting behavior so personally do what you want in private. It's not necessary to Facebook every possible position you find yourself in.
> 
> Fyi... not interested in anyone's private sex acts.... just make it public and I am free to express my disgust.


I didn't ask for details about your living arrangements or sex life. I really don't care a whit about either. I agree that public sex acts are disgusting and I'd likely share my disgust at seeing one. There are also laws against them in most jurisdictions which I approve of. Who wants to see William and Kate bumping uglies in a city park?

But the question I asked remains unanswered. How far can the government intrude into what you and your loved one(s) do behind your door. Should you lose your job, be unable to live somewhere, not be allowed to shop in a store or be denied government benefits because your sexual practices with those adults who consent to be with you don't meet some arbitrary standard. Should there be a list of things that you must swear you won't do? Who investigates? Or is assumption of the acts enough? Why should the standard be different for you than for others? Why should your religous views hold primacy?


----------



## mmoetc

Jolly said:


> There is no peer reviewed science worth a durn that supports a gay or transgendered gene. Trot out any link you wish.


Why should it matter? Even if you assume being gay or transgender is 100% a choice so is being Baptist, Catholic, or Methodist. I can't legally discriminate based on and some here cry loudly at criticism leveled at those who make that choice. Why should the laws be different for other choices that directly affect only the chooser?


----------



## Jolly

chamoisee said:


> Did you read through the scientific articles I cited? There is a biological basis for gender identity problems. I did NOT say that a "gay gene" exists. There's a reason why I didn't say that there's a gay gene: I don't think that there is a gay gene, or at least not a single gay gene.


Your article shows no basic difference in human phenotypes, nor the X and Y chromosomes needed to produce male or female.

Furthermore, the definition of DSD in your piece is so wide, that a child with a small or large sex organs is also considered DSD.

As with a lot of the stuff LGBT folks push on the web, some of this is misrepresented, some is hard science, some is wishful thinking and some is a foregone conclusion with a supporting article. 

I see nothing that identifies a gay gene.


----------



## Jolly

mmoetc said:


> Why should it matter? Even if you assume being gay or transgender is 100% a choice so is being Baptist, Catholic, or Methodist. I can't legally discriminate based on and some here cry loudly at criticism leveled at those who make that choice. Why should the laws be different for other choices that directly affect only the chooser?


We legally discriminate all the time, based upon what society feels is best for it. Married couples pay less tax. Couples with children receive child credits on their taxes. Mothers are much more likely to receive custody of their children in a divorce case, than are the fathers.

In current society, what do you consider the legal discriminations placed upon LGBT, and more specifically transgendered people? Their basic rights are protected, just as any other American's.

The biggest bone of contention seems to be over marriage. Marriage is a case where society DOES need to discriminate. For the best outcome in child rearing, Johnny doesn't need two moms, two dads, a mom and a kinda dad, one dad and six moms, one mom and three dads, or to be dumped into an institution and raised in familial isolation.

Marriage is at its best for society, when it is one man, one woman. When society starts to meddle with that nuclear family and its offspring, as in the China one-child law, dire consequences take place. Just look at the Great Society and how it has fostered a generation of fatherless young black men (something predicted by that great conservative, Pat Moynihan), who have been incarcerated at unprecedented rates and who have turned many of the inner cities of America into drug-infested hell holes, where life is a cheap commodity, worth no more than a gold necklace, a pair of tennis shoes, or sometimes just the worth of a street corner for vending illegal drugs. 

I don't see where anybody is advocating policing bedrooms and what people do in them. I don't see where LGBT people have to wear special armbands, ride in the back of buses, drink from separate water fountains or are denied service in a public lunch counter.

I do see many of them whining and constantly crying for acceptance and confirmation, yea, even special treatment and discrimination against others, to further their cause. No amount of acceptance can replace self-loathing, for so many of them.

If they feel they want, need or must be LGBT, fine by me and most other folks. Just live your life like the rest of us, try to be a better person each day and place less emphasis on what you are and more emphasis on who you are.

I suspect the majority would be happier by doing so,


----------



## mmoetc

Jolly said:


> We legally discriminate all the time, based upon what society feels is best for it. Married couples pay less tax. Couples with children receive child credits on their taxes. Mothers are much more likely to receive custody of their children in a divorce case, than are the fathers.
> 
> In current society, what do you consider the legal discriminations placed upon LGBT, and more specifically transgendered people? Their basic rights are protected, just as any other American's.
> 
> The biggest bone of contention seems to be over marriage. Marriage is a case where society DOES need to discriminate. For the best outcome in child rearing, Johnny doesn't need two moms, two dads, a mom and a kinda dad, one dad and six moms, one mom and three dads, or to be dumped into an institution and raised in familial isolation.
> 
> Marriage is at its best for society, when it is one man, one woman. When society starts to meddle with that nuclear family and its offspring, as in the China one-child law, dire consequences take place. Just look at the Great Society and how it has fostered a generation of fatherless young black men (something predicted by that great conservative, Pat Moynihan), who have been incarcerated at unprecedented rates and who have turned many of the inner cities of America into drug-infested hell holes, where life is a cheap commodity, worth no more than a gold necklace, a pair of tennis shoes, or sometimes just the worth of a street corner for vending illegal drugs.
> 
> I don't see where anybody is advocating policing bedrooms and what people do in them. I don't see where LGBT people have to wear special armbands, ride in the back of buses, drink from separate water fountains or are denied service in a public lunch counter.
> 
> I do see many of them whining and constantly crying for acceptance and confirmation, yea, even special treatment and discrimination against others, to further their cause. No amount of acceptance can replace self-loathing, for so many of them.
> 
> If they feel they want, need or must be LGBT, fine by me and most other folks. Just live your life like the rest of us, try to be a better person each day and place less emphasis on what you are and more emphasis on who you are.
> 
> I suspect the majority would be happier by doing so,


I tend to be against many of the things you cite in your first paragraph. It's interesting to note that while you say there is no discrimination based on gender identity or sexual orientation there are no federal protections for such. There are state and local laws. 

If, as many here wish, a gay couple can't buy a cake, why shouldn't they be denied service at that lunch counter? Why shouldn't they be denied that job? Why shouldn't they be denied the opportunity to buy that house? Read the many posts that cite acts of sexual perversion as the basis for discrimination and tell me again how it's not policing the bedroom? How are those same acts of perversion fine between heterosexuals but not others? Who gets to decide?

Kids do best in families that love and care for them. It doesn't really matter what combination of sexual apparatus the adults have. It does matter that they love and nurture the children. By your standards single parents should have their children removed to a better "environment". After all, Mom raising Bobby alone because Dad's in jail for beating her senseless is just as wrong as Neil and David raising their son, right?


----------



## poppy

wr said:


> I'm not sure about going back to the flameproof undies days but members wanted less moderation and infractions used as a last resort but mods are starting to consider using the infractions a bit more because it is getting pretty ugly.


I don't see it getting ugly at all. It's more open and honest and that is a good thing IMO. After all, isn't that what liberals want for Bruce? Why should a forum be any different? Please keep it mind that people with power from government to homeowner's associations always tend towards using that power. It's a natural progression for humans and the temptation to use it should be well tempered.


----------



## kasilofhome

mmoetc said:


> Why should it matter? Even if you assume being gay or transgender is 100% a choice so is being Baptist, Catholic, or Methodist. I can't legally discriminate based on and some here cry loudly at criticism leveled at those who make that choice. Why should the laws be different for other choices that directly affect only the chooser?


The supreme court has already a ruling on that look up sodomy and supreme court case for the details of the ruling.... next.


----------



## mmoetc

kasilofhome said:


> The supreme court has already a ruling on that look up sodomy and supreme court case for the details of the ruling.... next.


Do you mean this one from 2003 overturning Texas' sodomy law? http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lawrence_v._Texas


----------



## kasilofhome

mmoetc said:


> I tend to be against many of the things you cite in your first paragraph. It's interesting to note that while you say there is no discrimination based on gender identity or sexual orientation there are no federal protections for such. There are state and local laws.
> 
> If, as many here wish, a gay couple can't buy a cake, ...
> 
> False twisted statement.
> Fact... no one should be forced to violate their faith... congress can not make such a law... Obama had to deal with that fact wit the Obama care crap.
> 
> Any one can get a cake but not everyone must make a special cake that celebrates something that the cake maker refuses.
> 
> I support gay cake makers refusing to make her to wedding cakes.
> 
> Stop twisting facts for an agenda... the cake makers had previously make cakes for the the line in the sand was wedding cake.
> 
> 
> why shouldn't they be denied service at that lunch counter? If they ask for something the staff CAN'T make... pulled pork sandwich at a strict Muslim lunch countet
> 
> 
> 
> Why shouldn't they be denied that job?
> 
> I would not hire a person who's moral standing did not fit my own to work one on one with and undeveloped moral code..... a child.
> 
> Why shouldn't they be denied the opportunity to buy that house?
> 
> Read the many posts that cite acts of sexual perversion as the basis for discrimination and tell me again how it's not policing the bedroom? How are those same acts of perversion fine between heterosexuals but not others? Who gets to decide?
> 
> Kids do best in families that love and care for them.
> 
> We are now getting results from the children raised in homosexual homes and the factual results do not support your stand... the grown up children while the love and care about the parents... wish the they did have a female and a male.
> 
> 
> It doesn't really matter what combination of sexual apparatus the adults have. It does matter that they love and nurture the children.
> 
> Theory currently being tossed as a larger pool of studies are coming ing from children who are no adults and the are tossing that theory out the door
> 
> By your standards single parents should have their children removed to a better "environment". After all, Mom raising Bobby alone because Dad's in jail for beating her senseless is just as wrong as Neil and David raising their son, right?


Sorry data is leading to single better than Neil a David.


----------



## wr

poppy said:


> I don't see it getting ugly at all. It's more open and honest and that is a good thing IMO. After all, isn't that what liberals want for Bruce? Why should a forum be any different? Please keep it mind that people with power from government to homeowner's associations always tend towards using that power. It's a natural progression for humans and the temptation to use it should be well tempered.


I'd personally rather not have the infraction at all but then again, I was also of the opinion that adults had the ability to discuss and debate without resorting to things like name calling. 

I've been a GC mod since long before Alicegate and have a meted out very few infractions in all those years and I really doubt that I will ever derive pleasure from treating adults like children.


----------



## painterswife

kasilofhome said:


> Sorry data is leading to single better than Neil a David.


Of course you would be willing to provide links to that data.


----------



## kasilofhome

mmoetc said:


> Do you mean this one from 2003 overturning Texas' sodomy law? http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lawrence_v._Texas


No the Hardwick case.


It happened in Georgia

See I gave you the case

Try the right case.


----------



## kasilofhome

wr said:


> I'd personally rather not have the infraction at all but then again, I was also of the opinion that adults had the ability to discuss and debate without resorting to things like name calling.
> 
> I've been a GC mod since long before Alicegate and have a meted out very few infractions in all those years and I really doubt that I will ever derive pleasure from treating adults like children.


Is the use of alicegate snide and personal attack on a current member.


----------



## wr

kasilofhome said:


> Is the use of alicegate snide


Nope.


----------



## painterswife

kasilofhome said:


> Is the use of alicegate snide


Okay someone clue me in. Why is Kalishome seemingly on a continual quest to to make snide (using her own words) digs at WR every chance she can? Am I reading this wrong?

Is she a victim of something that WR did?


----------



## mmoetc

kasilofhome said:


> No the Hardwick case.


So, the case the one I cited overturned? The one even one of the judges who voted in the 5-4 majority later admitted was a mistake? Just what point are you trying to prove?


----------



## mmoetc

painterswife said:


> Okay someone clue me in. Why is Kalishome seemingly on a continual quest to to make snide (using her own words) digs at WR every chance she can? Am I reading this wrong?
> 
> Is she a victim of something that WR did?


Only that wr won't come to her defense and shut down her detractors as previous mods often did.


----------



## kasilofhome

You ask for my views on what rights do I think are acceptable for what goes on in a bedroom... that's my answer.

My view is dealt with in that finding.


----------



## chamoisee

Jolly said:


> Your article shows no basic difference in human phenotypes, nor the X and Y chromosomes needed to produce male or female.
> 
> Furthermore, the definition of DSD in your piece is so wide, that a child with a small or large sex organs is also considered DSD.
> 
> As with a lot of the stuff LGBT folks push on the web, some of this is misrepresented, some is hard science, some is wishful thinking and some is a foregone conclusion with a supporting article.
> 
> I see nothing that identifies a gay gene.


In other words, you didn't read the articles.


----------



## Irish Pixie

mmoetc said:


> Only that wr won't come to her defense and shut down her detractors as previous mods often did.


Post of the day infinity!!!!


----------



## painterswife

kasilofhome said:


> You ask for my views on what rights do I think are acceptable for what goes on in a bedroom... that's my answer.
> 
> My view is dealt with in that finding.


So it is fine to go into someone's bedroom and decide what sex acts they can participate in?


----------



## mmoetc

kasilofhome said:


> You ask for my views on what rights do I think are acceptable for what goes on in a bedroom... that's my answer.
> 
> My view is dealt with in that finding.


So your view is that of a ruling found to be unconstitutional? So how do feel about that whole Dred Scott thing?


----------



## Jolly

chamoisee said:


> In other words, you didn't read the articles.


Nope, I did. I even read many of the linked studies.

And I know how to read a peer reviewed article.

None of what you have linked comes anywhere near to decent evidence of a gay gene.


----------



## Jolly

mmoetc said:


> So your view is that of a ruling found to be unconstitutional? So how do feel about that whole Dred Scott thing?


Therefore, if SCOTUS rules in favor of gay marriage, it is suddenly immutable?

Or, the fallible Supreme Court only becomes infallible when you deem the ruling favorable?

If we consider _Dred Scott_ or _Plessey vs. Ferguson_, or many other cases, I think we both can agree that SCOTUS is not perfect and subject to the whims of the day.


----------



## chamoisee

As far as I can see, the arguments against transgender people accepting their condition and dealing with it in a way that brings peace to THEM (not you) are: 

*>* *Mental Illness* (the APA and the DSM V maintain that it is not a mental disorder and that it cannot be cured via therapy)

*> Personal Disgust* (when I get to proscribe the dress and behavior of other people based on my personal disgust, then you can hop in on this bandwagon too. But last I heard, it's a free country, and people get to wear plumber's butt and ill fitting yoga pants whether I think it's a good idea or not. Deal with it. )

*>Religious* The New Testament says nothing about gender identity issues, other than this verse from Matthew 19:12- "For there are some eunuchs, which were so born from _their_ mother's womb: and there are some eunuchs, which were made eunuchs of men: and there be eunuchs, which have made themselves eunuchs for the kingdom of heaven's sake. He that is able to receive _it_, let him receive _it_.
" There is much interesting discussion regarding the Aramaic word for eunuch, m'haym-ne. But I think, whether you interpret it to mean a guy who'd [FONT=times new roman,times][/FONT]had himself castrated, or a gay man, either way, it's at odds with your arguments. It's pretty clear that Jesus didn't have a problem with eunuchs. 

*>It's unnatural*- The links I've posted have already born out that it IS a condition people are born with. The etiology can be varied, from undetected intersex conditions to genetic links that are still being explored, but the science that we currently have supports the position that people are being born this way. 

*>It's a choice*- Any transgender person you ask would be THRILLED to feel at home in the body they were born into. Gender dysphoria is incredibly painful and difficult to live with. It's not a choice. But let's say that it is. Still, it's their choice, not yours. Other people don't get to choose whether you get liposuction, breast implants, or get that enormous mole on the end of your nose removed. We could go the Brave New World route and start saying who can breed whom...I don't think any of us want that. We live in an ostensibly free country and our personal liberties (which already have been eroded) should be protected. 

*>*MY* Religion Says.....* So what? I don't give a ---- what your religion says. It's YOUR religion, not mine. Keep your religious beliefs to yourself and OUT of my bedroom, sex life, and underwear.


----------



## chamoisee

Jolly said:


> Nope, I did. I even read many of the linked studies.
> 
> And I know how to read a peer reviewed article.
> 
> None of what you have linked comes anywhere near to decent evidence of a gay gene.


Seeing as how I wasn't citing any articles that showed evidence of a gay gene (in fact, I specifically said that I don't think that a single gay gene exists), I find it unsurprising that you didn't find any evidence of that in those articles.


----------



## mmoetc

Jolly said:


> Therefore, if SCOTUS rules in favor of gay marriage, it is suddenly immutable?
> 
> Or, the fallible Supreme Court only becomes infallible when you deem the ruling favorable?
> 
> If we consider _Dred Scott_ or _Plessey vs. Ferguson_, or many other cases, I think we both can agree that SCOTUS is not perfect and subject to the whims of the day.


And sometimes those whims are far removed from the whims of our founding fathers. I have no doubt they get things wrong and are subject to the changing standards of the day. Quite often, on major issues, they eventually catch up and get it right.


----------



## Jolly

> I tend to be against many of the things you cite in your first paragraph. It's interesting to note that while you say there is no discrimination based on gender identity or sexual orientation there are no federal protections for such. There are state and local laws.


Which is where law should be made, for the most part, although Federal law should be protection enough. And even where there are no state laws regarding specific protection, is there some dire need for such?



> If, as many here wish, a gay couple can't buy a cake, why shouldn't they be denied service at that lunch counter? Why shouldn't they be denied that job? Why shouldn't they be denied the opportunity to buy that house?


It's not that the gay couple cannot buy a cake, the couple in question had bought many cakes at that bakery over the years. the sticking point was a gay wedding cake, something they were welcome to purchase elsewhere. I am no fan of forcing a sole proprietorship to sell to any individual they wish not to do business with - that should be the shop owner's choice.

That differs from a Walgreen's lunch counter, since Walgreen's is a public corporation.

I don't see masses of LGBT people selling pencils on street corners, so I assume that most are gainfully employed. I think we have enough protected classes, without introducing another class that cannot by any other means than self-identification, even prove they are a member of the aggrieved class.

But if you would like to go down that road, I hereby submit that white males are now definitely a minority in this country, are fast becoming an aggrieved class and truly in need of special considerations. And class can easily be proven by Mark I eyeballs and a casual glance at genitalia.



> Kids do best in families that love and care for them. It doesn't really matter what combination of sexual apparatus the adults have.


Now that, my friend, is absolute horse manure and wishful thinking, all rolled into a ball. I have seen no studies to show that children do better in LGBT households. I have seen a few, where children are purported to do as well in gay households as heterosexual ones, but I've also seen studies where children do worse in gay households. That science is certainly not settled, but I'd like to think a few thousand years of doing it one way are not completely wrong.



> After all, Mom raising Bobby alone because Dad's in jail for beating her senseless is just as wrong as Neil and David raising their son, right?


 Got enough straw to stuff that man? We're talking about "best practices", are we not? The best practice is the one man, one woman family. The law is only discriminatory in that it is following best practice for the birth, rearing and support of children.

As a society, we should want the best, the most stable and the most time-proven method of raising responsible and productive children. For our government to function at its best, it needs the best citizens the country can produce.


----------



## kasilofhome

mmoetc said:


> And sometimes those whims are far removed from the whims of our founding fathers. I have no doubt they get things wrong and are subject to the changing standards of the day. Quite often, on major issues, they eventually catch up and get it right.


And they retreat when they go too far the other way.


----------



## mmoetc

kasilofhome said:


> You ask for my views on what rights do I think are acceptable for what goes on in a bedroom... that's my answer.
> 
> My view is dealt with in that finding.


But once again, I didn't ask what you find acceptable. I asked how far the government can intrude into your practices as you wish them to intrude into others? I don't care what you do. I don't care what other consenting adults do. Why do you care so much?


----------



## kasilofhome

Sorry if you do not like my views I am not here to please you. Those are my views on that subject.

Read the case and findings it is clear.


----------



## Patchouli

painterswife said:


> Okay someone clue me in. Why is Kalishome seemingly on a continual quest to to make snide (using her own words) digs at WR every chance she can? Am I reading this wrong?
> 
> Is she a victim of something that WR did?


I get the exact same vibe.


----------



## Patchouli

kasilofhome said:


> Sorry if you do not like my views I am not here to please you. Those are my views on that subject.
> 
> Read the case and findings it is clear.


The problem is you won't actually state your views when it comes to yourself. Mmotec isn't asking a hard question here: how far are you willing to let the government intrude into YOUR bedroom? It's easy to send them after other people but that sword cuts both ways, one of these days they may turn their laws towards yours.


----------



## wr

Patchouli said:


> The problem is you won't actually state your views when it comes to yourself. Mmotec isn't asking a hard question here: how far are you willing to let the government intrude into YOUR bedroom? It's easy to send them after other people but that sword cuts both ways, one of these days they may turn their laws towards yours.


Actually, there was a time when citizens married someone from another country, the government had the right to come into the home and verify that couples were living as man and wife rather than roommates to prove they were not marriages on paper only to help someone gain citizenship.


----------



## Jolly

Patchouli said:


> The problem is you won't actually state your views when it comes to yourself. Mmotec isn't asking a hard question here: how far are you willing to let the government intrude into YOUR bedroom? It's easy to send them after other people but that sword cuts both ways, one of these days they may turn their laws towards yours.


As far as I can tell, nothing in this entire thread effects the private acts of two people.

Nothing has been banned or legislated out of existence.


----------



## painterswife

wr said:


> Actually, there was a time when citizens married someone from another country, the government had the right to come into the home and verify that couples were living as man and wife rather than roommates to prove they were not marriages on paper only to help someone gain citizenship.


They still can. I think.


----------



## Patchouli

Jolly said:


> As far as I can tell, nothing in this entire thread effects the private acts of two people.
> 
> Nothing has been banned or legislated out of existence.


Well this thread has taken a few wanders. And Kasilofhome has been asked in a few different threads now how far she thinks the government should be allowed to intrude into her bedroom because she supports the government intrusion for other people. Just looking for an answer.


----------



## arabian knight

Way to got Clint. Love it. LOL
*Clint Eastwood mocks Caitlyn Jenner during Spike TV's Guys Choice Awards*


> According to USA Today, the joke -- which Spike TV has said they will cut when the awards show airs -- was made when Eastwood was introducing "San Andreas" star Dwayne "The Rock" Johnson.
> 
> According to reports, Eastwood introduced Johnson by comparing him to other famous athletes, such as "Jim Brown and *Caitlyn Somebody..."*


http://www.msn.com/en-us/movies/celebrity/clint-eastwood-mocks-caitlyn-jenner-during-spike-tvs-guys-choice-awards/ar-BBkPNbK


----------



## BlackFeather

Patchouli said:


> Mmotec isn't asking a hard question here: how far are you willing to let the government intrude into YOUR bedroom?


 I think what kasilofhome is more concerned about is letting God's instructions intrude into the bedroom. (Government laws are thought to be a just a reflection of this.) This is where the arguments fall down, if one doesn't believe in God or accept Biblical teaching then it just comes down to "I think this and you think that." It becomes every man determining good and evil for themselves. Then there becomes no concrete right and wrong. Which is what the story of the garden of Eden was about, man chose the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, they chose to develop their own knowledge of right and wrong for themselves instead of revealed knowledge from the creator. So I don't see any point in bickering. As I purposed earlier we can wait several years and see if things get better or worse while mankind seeks right and wrong for themselves.


----------



## Jolly

chamoisee said:


> As far as I can see, the arguments against transgender people accepting their condition and dealing with it in a way that brings peace to THEM (not you) are:
> 
> *>* *Mental Illness* (the APA and the DSM V maintain that it is not a mental disorder and that it cannot be cured via therapy)
> 
> *> Personal Disgust* (when I get to proscribe the dress and behavior of other people based on my personal disgust, then you can hop in on this bandwagon too. But last I heard, it's a free country, and people get to wear plumber's butt and ill fitting yoga pants whether I think it's a good idea or not. Deal with it. )
> 
> *>Religious* The New Testament says nothing about gender identity issues, other than this verse from Matthew 19:12- "For there are some eunuchs, which were so born from _their_ mother's womb: and there are some eunuchs, which were made eunuchs of men: and there be eunuchs, which have made themselves eunuchs for the kingdom of heaven's sake. He that is able to receive _it_, let him receive _it_.
> " There is much interesting discussion regarding the Aramaic word for eunuch, m'haym-ne. But I think, whether you interpret it to mean a guy who'd [FONT=times new roman,times][/FONT]had himself castrated, or a gay man, either way, it's at odds with your arguments. It's pretty clear that Jesus didn't have a problem with eunuchs.
> 
> *>It's unnatural*- The links I've posted have already born out that it IS a condition people are born with. The etiology can be varied, from undetected intersex conditions to genetic links that are still being explored, but the science that we currently have supports the position that people are being born this way.
> 
> *>It's a choice*- Any transgender person you ask would be THRILLED to feel at home in the body they were born into. Gender dysphoria is incredibly painful and difficult to live with. It's not a choice. But let's say that it is. Still, it's their choice, not yours. Other people don't get to choose whether you get liposuction, breast implants, or get that enormous mole on the end of your nose removed. We could go the Brave New World route and start saying who can breed whom...I don't think any of us want that. We live in an ostensibly free country and our personal liberties (which already have been eroded) should be protected.
> 
> *>*MY* Religion Says.....* So what? I don't give a ---- what your religion says. It's YOUR religion, not mine. Keep your religious beliefs to yourself and OUT of my bedroom, sex life, and underwear.


DSM's vary. I've seen them change quite a bit in my lifetime. Surprisingly, I've seen in treatment plans in the journals of late, an advocation for less medication and a simpler form of life...which is kinda what we were doing 75 years ago.

As for whether LGBT folks can be mentally ill, I suppose that can vary with the individual. I'm sure some are pretty sane, while others are not.

And I find it amusing that suddenly one can speak for how all transgendered people feel. I think not.

Personal liberties? Yes, you have them, as do I. I have a right to my opinions, just as you have a right to yours. And if my opinions are based upon religion, until those opinions actually cause harm, I do not not see where religion is detrimental.

Lastly, I can assure you, madam, your underwear is entirely safe around me.


----------



## kasilofhome

If it is so natural why the need for surgery..... nature should have stepped up to the plate.


Na, it is natural to want what you find pleasurable. That's why so many steal to the want the pleasure of other people's things so they take them.


----------



## painterswife

kasilofhome said:


> If it is so natural why the need for surgery..... nature should have stepped up to the plate.
> 
> 
> Na, it is natural to want what you find pleasurable. That's why so many steal to the want the pleasure of other people's things so they take them.


Will someone translate this for me.


----------



## Patchouli

Jolly said:


> DSM's vary. I've seen them change quite a bit in my lifetime. Surprisingly, I've seen in treatment plans in the journals of late, an advocation for less medication and a simpler form of life...which is kinda what we were doing 75 years ago.
> 
> As for whether LGBT folks can be mentally ill, I suppose that can vary with the individual. I'm sure some are pretty sane, while others are not.
> 
> And I find it amusing that suddenly one can speak for how all transgendered people feel. I think not.
> 
> Personal liberties? Yes, you have them, as do I. I have a right to my opinions, just as you have a right to yours. *And if my opinions are based upon religion, until those opinions actually cause harm, I do not not see where religion is detrimental.*
> 
> Lastly, I can assure you, madam, your underwear is entirely safe around me.


Until they cause harm? Really? Would you like statistics or actual personal stories of the harm those religious opinions have caused?


----------



## MO_cows

arabian knight said:


> Way to got Clint. Love it. LOL
> *Clint Eastwood mocks Caitlyn Jenner during Spike TV's Guys Choice Awards*
> 
> 
> http://www.msn.com/en-us/movies/cel...uring-spike-tvs-guys-choice-awards/ar-BBkPNbK


How is that mocking? It's not derogatory towards Jenner. If anything, using the new name that has only been in the public awareness for days, is a testament to the fame and popularity of Jenner. If Clint would have called him "Nancy" or "Sheila" or one of the other slang name/terms for women, that would have been mocking. But he used the name that Jenner wants to go by.


----------



## Lisa in WA

kasilofhome said:


> If it is so natural why the need for surgery..... nature should have stepped up to the plate.


Cancer and appendicitis are natural. Would you rather someone die than have surgery to fix the problem because they are natural?


----------



## Jolly

Patchouli said:


> Until they cause harm? Really? Would you like statistics or actual personal stories of the harm those religious opinions have caused?


Harm as in physical harm, or harm as in "I'm butthurt because you don't agree with me, so I'm gonna go eat worms" hurt. :Bawling:

There is a difference, you know.


----------



## Patchouli

painterswife said:


> Will someone translate this for me.



I think she was saying nature never makes mistakes and so the need for surgery could only be based on personal preferences. That is of course false but I think that is what she was saying.


----------



## Lisa in WA

MO_cows said:


> How is that mocking? It's not derogatory towards Jenner. If anything, using the new name that has only been in the public awareness for days, is a testament to the fame and popularity of Jenner. If Clint would have called him "Nancy" or "Sheila" or one of the other slang name/terms for women, that would have been mocking. But he used the name that Jenner wants to go by.


I don't actually see that as mocking either.


----------



## Patchouli

Jolly said:


> Harm as in physical harm, or harm as in "I'm butthurt because you don't agree with me, so I'm gonna go eat worms" hurt. :Bawling:
> 
> There is a difference, you know.


Really? Okay let's start with actual physical harm. 

https://www.york.cuny.edu/academics...er-lgbt-youths-affected-by-discrimination-and

http://www.avp.org/storage/documents/2012_mr_ncavp_hvreport.pdf

http://www.endabusewi.org/sites/default/files/resources/LGBT Youth Facts and Stats.pdf

Those all give stats across the board too. Bullying, violence, the psychological harm it causes, the increased rates of homeless kids due to families throwing them out, the increased rates of suicide and depression. 

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/12/31/leelah-alcorn_n_6402172.html



> A transgender Ohio teen walked in front of an oncoming truck and was crushed to death on Sunday morning, leaving behind a suicide note that has resonated around the world and led to calls for a federal law to protect other transgender adolescents.
> 
> Leelah Alcorn, born with the name Joshua, was 17 years old and said she had been forced to undergo conversion therapy, which seeks to change sexual orientation through counseling. The practice has been banned in two states on grounds it is medically unfounded and puts children in danger.
> 
> "The only way I will rest in peace is if one day transgender people aren't treated the way I was, they're treated like humans, with valid feelings and human rights," Alcorn wrote in the note that was posted on Tumblr.
> 
> Alcorn, from Kings Mills, near Cincinnati, said that since the age of 4, she felt like a girl trapped in a boy's body and cried with happiness when she found out at 14 what transgender meant.
> 
> "After 10 years of confusion I finally understood who I was," Alcorn wrote, telling of her battle with her deeply religious Christian parents as she struggled to find her identity.


Need more? 

This one specifically speaks to the religious angle: 

http://www.splcenter.org/get-inform...ican-family-association-the-demonization-of-l

There is plenty of information out there, that was all I could bear to wade through. Does it ever occur to all of you that these are real people we are talking about here? That every one of your snarky or unkind or downright hateful remarks can actually be hurting someone? That it could be the thing that kicks them over the edge into suicide or self harm? That your religious rhetoric winds up families and cause them to toss their children out on the streets to survive if they can? Do you think about that at all?


----------



## wr

arabian knight said:


> Way to got Clint. Love it. LOL
> *Clint Eastwood mocks Caitlyn Jenner during Spike TV's Guys Choice Awards*
> 
> 
> http://www.msn.com/en-us/movies/celebrity/clint-eastwood-mocks-caitlyn-jenner-during-spike-tvs-guys-choice-awards/ar-BBkPNbK


You celebrate mocking others?


----------



## Lisa in WA

wr said:


> You celebrate mocking others?


I guess he does. I don't see it as mocking myself but clearly Arabian Knight does and celebrates it. Not cool at all.

ETA: though I think it was rather stupid of CE to say if he didn't want a backlash. Anything not gushing over Jenner right now is going to get you your head handed to you.


----------



## arabian knight

It was as good as talking to The Empty Chair. We all know O is a empty suit anyway.


----------



## Lisa in WA

arabian knight said:


> It was as good as talking to The Empty Chair. We all know O is a empty suit anyway.


This seems unnecessary in a thread about Jenner.


----------



## painterswife

basketti said:


> This seems unnecessary in a thread about Jenner.


Haven't you heard? Obama is the cause of every single problem in the world.


----------



## Irish Pixie

Patchouli said:


> Until they cause harm? Really? Would you like statistics or actual personal stories of the harm those religious opinions have caused?





Jolly said:


> Harm as in physical harm, or harm as in "I'm butthurt because you don't agree with me, so I'm gonna go eat worms" hurt. :Bawling:
> 
> There is a difference, you know.


Uncalled for and just plain rude, in my opinion.


----------



## MO_cows

basketti said:


> I guess he does. I don't see it as mocking myself but clearly Arabian Knight does and celebrates it. Not cool at all.
> 
> ETA: though I think it was rather stupid of CE to say if he didn't want a backlash. Anything not gushing over Jenner right now is going to get you your head handed to you.


Clint doesn't care about backlash. He's to the "curmudgeon stage" of life and seems to be relishing it.


----------



## 7thswan

basketti said:


> This seems unnecessary in a thread about Jenner.


You didn't know that obama is gay?


----------



## wr

7thswan said:


> You didn't know that obama is gay?



It's been a long day and you made me laugh. Thank you.


----------



## Irish Pixie

wr said:


> It's been a long day and you made me laugh. Thank you.


Whether or not she meant to.


----------



## Jolly

Patchouli said:


> Really? Okay let's start with actual physical harm.
> 
> https://www.york.cuny.edu/academics...er-lgbt-youths-affected-by-discrimination-and
> 
> http://www.avp.org/storage/documents/2012_mr_ncavp_hvreport.pdf
> 
> http://www.endabusewi.org/sites/default/files/resources/LGBT Youth Facts and Stats.pdf
> 
> Those all give stats across the board too. Bullying, violence, the psychological harm it causes, the increased rates of homeless kids due to families throwing them out, the increased rates of suicide and depression.
> 
> http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/12/31/leelah-alcorn_n_6402172.html
> 
> 
> 
> Need more?
> 
> This one specifically speaks to the religious angle:
> 
> http://www.splcenter.org/get-inform...ican-family-association-the-demonization-of-l
> 
> There is plenty of information out there, that was all I could bear to wade through. Does it ever occur to all of you that these are real people we are talking about here? That every one of your snarky or unkind or downright hateful remarks can actually be hurting someone? That it could be the thing that kicks them over the edge into suicide or self harm? That your religious rhetoric winds up families and cause them to toss their children out on the streets to survive if they can? Do you think about that at all?


Oh, cry me a river. :Bawling:

You know something, life ain't fair. There are all kinds of pressure on kids as they grow up. Some don't have fathers. Some have crackhead mothers. Some have abusive parents. Some even have parents or family that sexually molest them. And a gazillion things more.

I'm sorry Mr. LGBT person, but what makes you special? If you want to be like the rest of us, toughen up and tighten up like the rest of us. Nobody is keeping you (not in this country) from being what you want to be.


----------



## Jolly

7thswan said:


> You didn't know that obama is gay?


Well, if you had to sleep with Moochelle...


----------



## Irish Pixie

Jolly said:


> Oh, cry me a river. :Bawling:
> 
> You know something, life ain't fair. There are all kinds of pressure on kids as they grow up. Some don't have fathers. Some have crackhead mothers. Some have abusive parents. Some even have parents or family that sexually molest them. And a gazillion things more.
> 
> I'm sorry Mr. LGBT person, but what makes you special? If you want to be like the rest of us, toughen up and tighten up like the rest of us. Nobody is keeping you (not in this country) from being what you want to be.


Is this your fall back position? Just curious.


----------



## Jolly

Irish Pixie said:


> Is this your fall back position? Just curious.


Not even a fall-back position. I'm answering a series of links showing that LGBT kids are so conflicted, they can't hardly summon the courage to get out of bed every morning.

You know what, being a kid in today's society, especially being a teenager, is no bed of roses. Come to think of it, it hasn't been for over 100 years.

Simply put, it's hard on everybody.

Gay kids aren't special. they don't deserve special treatment. In fact, many of them are more sexually confused, than gay.

So, if the LGBT community wants to be respected, try living life on the same terms as the rest of us.

You, just like me, aren't special. We never were and we will never will be, not in the grand scheme of things.


----------



## wr

Jolly said:


> Not even a fall-back position. I'm answering a series of links showing that LGBT kids are so conflicted, they can't hardly summon the courage to get out of bed every morning.
> 
> 
> 
> You know what, being a kid in today's society, especially being a teenager, is no bed of roses. Come to think of it, it hasn't been for over 100 years.
> 
> 
> 
> Simply put, it's hard on everybody.
> 
> 
> 
> Gay kids aren't special. they don't deserve special treatment. In fact, many of them are more sexually confused, than gay.
> 
> 
> 
> So, if the LGBT community wants to be respected, try living life on the same terms as the rest of us.
> 
> 
> 
> You, just like me, aren't special. We never were and we will never will be, not in the grand scheme of things.



If gay kids are just sexually confused, wouldn't a bit of counselling help to resolve that?


----------



## chamoisee

Jolly said:


> So, if the LGBT community wants to be respected, try living life on the same terms as the rest of us.
> 
> You, just like me, aren't special. We never were and we will never will be, not in the grand scheme of things.


Well, that's kind of our point. You straight folk ARE special. You're privileged in all kinds of ways we're not. Live life on the same terms as the rest of you? We'd like that. We'd like that a lot. As a matter of fact, it's all we're asking for, but people like you keep trying to find reasons why we shouldn't get to do just that.


----------



## Jolly

wr said:


> If gay kids are just sexually confused, wouldn't a bit of counselling help to resolve that?


Counsel them to do what? Depends on what agenda the counselor shows up with.

If I start early enough, I can make a sapling grow in a knot. Doesn't do the sapling much good, but it proves I can grow it in a knot.

I think folks have to figure things out for themselves. Without a lot of pushing and pulling from any side...not unless they want to be pulled or pushed.

I'm reminded of the local high school girls softball team - a reported hotbed of lesbianism. Turns out, most of those girls married, had children and were about as hetero as any of their peers. But at the time, they had a couple of lesbian girls on the team who wanted everyone to be like them. And teenagers being teenagers, experimentation happened. But it was just a phase for all but the original two.


----------



## Jolly

chamoisee said:


> Well, that's kind of our point. You straight folk ARE special. You're privileged in all kinds of ways we're not. Live life on the same terms as the rest of you? We'd like that. We'd like that a lot. As a matter of fact, it's all we're asking for, but people like you keep trying to find reasons why we shouldn't get to do just that.


No, you're not. You're (collective you) asking to be special. You want to compare yourselves to the civil rights movement, when you can't even define yourself as an aggrieved class. You want to redefine marriage as something it never was.

Want to be treated like everyone else? Then put the rainbow banners down and come down off the cross y'all have made for yourselves. Quit the Church of the Perpetually Petulant, and just be a good person.

At the end of the day, most folks will treat you as you deserve to be treated.


----------



## poppy

Jolly said:


> No, you're not. You're (collective you) asking to be special. You want to compare yourselves to the civil rights movement, when you can't even define yourself as an aggrieved class. You want to redefine marriage as something it never was.
> 
> Want to be treated like everyone else? Then put the rainbow banners down and come down off the cross y'all have made for yourselves. Quit the Church of the Perpetually Petulant, and just be a good person.
> 
> At the end of the day, most folks will treat you as you deserve to be treated.


Well said. If you dress like a clown, expect to be seen as a clown. That applies to everyone, gay or straight. If you act like a poor mistreated me person, expect to be seen as a loser. That applies to a gay or straight person. If people see you as pushing an agenda by force, expect to be seen as an intolerant bully. Nobody owes you respect. It must be earned by us all in the way we live our lives.


----------



## HDRider

Jolly said:


> No, you're not. You're (collective you) asking to be special. You want to compare yourselves to the civil rights movement, when you can't even define yourself as an aggrieved class. You want to redefine marriage as something it never was.
> 
> Want to be treated like everyone else? Then put the rainbow banners down and come down off the cross y'all have made for yourselves. Quit the Church of the Perpetually Petulant, and just be a good person.
> 
> At the end of the day, most folks will treat you as you deserve to be treated.


Hear hear.


----------



## chamoisee

It's interesting to me that assumptions are made (dressing like a clown??) in order to justify continuing maltreatment of groups that you yourself do not belong to. Walk a mile in shoes that aren't privileged, and then get back to me on that.


----------



## JeffreyD

chamoisee said:


> It's interesting to me that assumptions are made (dressing like a clown??) in order to justify continuing maltreatment of groups that you yourself do not belong to. Walk a mile in shoes that aren't privileged, and then get back to me on that.


Maybe you should do the same! What privilege are you speaking of?


----------



## Jolly

chamoisee said:


> It's interesting to me that assumptions are made (dressing like a clown??) in order to justify continuing maltreatment of groups that you yourself do not belong to. Walk a mile in shoes that aren't privileged, and then get back to me on that.


*If you dress like a clown, expect to be seen as a clown.*


metaphor
[met-uh-fawr, -fer] 

noun
1. a figure of speech in which a term or phrase is applied to something to which it is not literally applicable in order to suggest a resemblance, as in âA mighty fortress is our God.â.
Compare mixed metaphor, simile (def 1).
2. something used, or regarded as being used, to represent something else; emblem; symbol.


----------



## MO_cows

chamoisee said:


> Well, that's kind of our point. You straight folk ARE special. You're privileged in all kinds of ways we're not. Live life on the same terms as the rest of you? We'd like that. We'd like that a lot. As a matter of fact, it's all we're asking for, but people like you keep trying to find reasons why we shouldn't get to do just that.


Jenner is a LOT more privileged than me. He not only transformed into a she, but took 35 years off his age in the process. It takes a LOT of that green colored privilege to do that! And every media outlet is offering him big bucks to come tell his-to-her story with them. And I bet she has a truckload of free designer clothes, cosmetics, you name it, because for her to be seen wearing your label is just as good as a paid endorsement. 

Geez get over the victim-itis already. This is the most accepted LBGT people have been in the history of the world and progress still happening. Can't you find a thing to celebrate instead of cry over?


----------



## Patchouli

Jolly said:


> Oh, cry me a river. :Bawling:
> 
> You know something, life ain't fair. There are all kinds of pressure on kids as they grow up. Some don't have fathers. Some have crackhead mothers. Some have abusive parents. Some even have parents or family that sexually molest them. And a gazillion things more.
> 
> I'm sorry Mr. LGBT person, but what makes you special? If you want to be like the rest of us, toughen up and tighten up like the rest of us. Nobody is keeping you (not in this country) from being what you want to be.


Well you just made it on my ignore list. You have nothing worth hearing to say obviously.


----------



## Patchouli

Well that is it for me in this thread. I thought I had plumbed the depths here on a few other threads but no y'all continue to amaze. I don't know how some people make it through the day with that much ugly deep in their souls. Really don't. That you could speak the way you do knowing that there is someone here who is gay just BLOWS MY MIND. 

And you want to know why I am an Apatheist? It's because you people claim to be the examples of Christ on earth. I bet he is proud. 

Once again I just have to say kudos to Chamoisee, your decency and kindheartedness and efforts to inform without degenerating to the levels shown here are a bright and shining light. It's pretty obvious who the truly decent human being is here.


----------



## mmoetc

Jolly said:


> Which is where law should be made, for the most part, although Federal law should be protection enough. And even where there are no state laws regarding specific protection, is there some dire need for such?
> 
> 
> 
> It's not that the gay couple cannot buy a cake, the couple in question had bought many cakes at that bakery over the years. the sticking point was a gay wedding cake, something they were welcome to purchase elsewhere. I am no fan of forcing a sole proprietorship to sell to any individual they wish not to do business with - that should be the shop owner's choice.
> 
> That differs from a Walgreen's lunch counter, since Walgreen's is a public corporation.
> 
> I don't see masses of LGBT people selling pencils on street corners, so I assume that most are gainfully employed. I think we have enough protected classes, without introducing another class that cannot by any other means than self-identification, even prove they are a member of the aggrieved class.
> 
> But if you would like to go down that road, I hereby submit that white males are now definitely a minority in this country, are fast becoming an aggrieved class and truly in need of special considerations. And class can easily be proven by Mark I eyeballs and a casual glance at genitalia.
> 
> 
> 
> Now that, my friend, is absolute horse manure and wishful thinking, all rolled into a ball. I have seen no studies to show that children do better in LGBT households. I have seen a few, where children are purported to do as well in gay households as heterosexual ones, but I've also seen studies where children do worse in gay households. That science is certainly not settled, but I'd like to think a few thousand years of doing it one way are not completely wrong.
> 
> 
> 
> Got enough straw to stuff that man? We're talking about "best practices", are we not? The best practice is the one man, one woman family. The law is only discriminatory in that it is following best practice for the birth, rearing and support of children.
> 
> As a society, we should want the best, the most stable and the most time-proven method of raising responsible and productive children. For our government to function at its best, it needs the best citizens the country can produce.


I can find studies that show no significant difference between children raised in two parent gay households and two parent straight households. I can show studies that the kids in gay households do better on some parameters than their peers from straight households. Even the studies I've seen that show kids from straight, two parent households do better show that kids from two parent gay households do better than kids from any other type of situation. Single mom, single dad, shared custody. All show kids with more problems than kids with two gay parents living in the household. 

If we're going to deny gay marriage based on some belief that marriage is tied only to child rearing there are many straight couples who should be denied also. Should there be some time limit after marriage that they must produce offspring or return the benefits they gained? What of that nice couple in the nursing home? Sorry, no marriage for you. 

The idea that the government should reward best practice is absurd on many levels. First show me the history of our government being able to identify best practice in any endeavor and then show me how they've implimented it or incentivized it in the private sector. Best practice used to be to hunt, trap and poison all the large predators and pay bounties. Now we spend millions to restore habitat, protect and compensate for losses from these same animals. Which practice is best? Government used to encourage farmers to remove fence rows and tree lines and plow deeply from horizon to horizon. Now we promote low/no till and setting land idle to help wildlife. Best practice? Too much reliance on last week's best practice stifles innovation and next week's surprise breakthrough to the next best practice.

You talk a lot about people giving up their victimhood. Your right, they should be able to. The gay kid in high school should be able to worry about his acne or lack of athletic skill just like any other kid without having his sexuality layered over it. That's all he wants. Bill at the office just wants to bring his boyfriend to the company christmas party without worrying that that, not his job performance, will determine his next promotion. Sally just wants to walk into a hospital and get medical information about her wife without having to show powers of attorney or medical releases. They do want to treated like any else. They just want to be able to walk into the best bakery in town and buy the best cake for their special day. Just like anyone else.


----------



## Jolly

Patchouli said:


> Well you just made it on my ignore list. You have nothing worth hearing to say obviously.


A man is known by his enemies, I suppose...


----------



## HDRider

I don't know if it is fair to ask those with a birth defect to deny they are a victim. I guess they are a victim.

That said, most people, myself included, love or care for them no less than those born normal.


----------



## Jolly

mmoetc said:


> I can find studies that show no significant difference between children raised in two parent gay households and two parent straight households. I can show studies that the kids in gay households do better on some parameters than their peers from straight households. Even the studies I've seen that show kids from straight, two parent households do better show that kids from two parent gay households do better than kids from any other type of situation. Single mom, single dad, shared custody. All show kids with more problems than kids with two gay parents living in the household.
> 
> If we're going to deny gay marriage based on some belief that marriage is tied only to child rearing there are many straight couples who should be denied also. Should there be some time limit after marriage that they must produce offspring or return the benefits they gained? What of that nice couple in the nursing home? Sorry, no marriage for you.
> 
> The idea that the government should reward best practice is absurd on many levels. First show me the history of our government being able to identify best practice in any endeavor and then show me how they've implimented it or incentivized it in the private sector. Best practice used to be to hunt, trap and poison all the large predators and pay bounties. Now we spend millions to restore habitat, protect and compensate for losses from these same animals. Which practice is best? Government used to encourage farmers to remove fence rows and tree lines and plow deeply from horizon to horizon. Now we promote low/no till and setting land idle to help wildlife. Best practice? Too much reliance on last week's best practice stifles innovation and next week's surprise breakthrough to the next best practice.
> 
> You talk a lot about people giving up their victimhood. Your right, they should be able to. The gay kid in high school should be able to worry about his acne or lack of athletic skill just like any other kid without having his sexuality layered over it. That's all he wants. Bill at the office just wants to bring his boyfriend to the company christmas party without worrying that that, not his job performance, will determine his next promotion. Sally just wants to walk into a hospital and get medical information about her wife without having to show powers of attorney or medical releases. They do want to treated like any else. They just want to be able to walk into the best bakery in town and buy the best cake for their special day. Just like anyone else.


No, I think Best Practice is Best Policy.

I believe the government should encourage a one man/one woman _covenant_ marriage...A marriage that is harder to get into and harder to get out of. I believe the government should encourage raising children in the best environment possible. Having seen nothing that truly changes my mind, I believe that environment to still be the traditional family.

I'm not wild about the single mom travesty that we currently have in society. I think that is a prime example of social engineering and unexpected consequences of the government meddling where it has no business.

As for your litany of gay woes in society, I would submit there are already societal mechanisms to get past most of that. And if not, there are usually easily done work-arounds...not everybody gets what they want, when they want it. I certainly don't. You cannot legislate an end to discrimination, and everybody is discriminated against by others, at some and various points in their lives.

Therefore, learn to cope with some of the things you don't like, just like the rest of us.


----------



## kasilofhome

As a hetrosexual wife..... I need to show my poa to help him with lots of things. Here is what it is like for heterosexual married persons

I get a letter addressed

Mrs,hetro.
For Mr. Hetro.

Body of the letter states I am to call their office.
I call their office

I am told they can't talk to me due to hipa laws he will have to call.

I ask them to take a moment and to check their files as their records will show
That I am on file,it is noted, they sent the letter to me.

Wait, listen to a 15 second loop of music followed by your call is really important to us please hold on.

27 minutes later they inform me I must be mistake that I am not on file.
Could I get a signed notarize copy of a form they
could sent to me in the mail and I can return by mail.

I tell them per their letter to me the need the info quicker than that can happen.
I ask if he can just say authorize me to deal with it.

They tell me that their records show he's not authorized to make decisions due to health issues


So good luck Sally.

Only homos have to jump thru hoops. Bull carp. That's life. For everyone.... equality mean yep, you get treated equal.... you just think the grass is greener on the other side ...wrong but you buy the bull someone tells you that you face that misery because of who your partner is.


----------



## mmoetc

kasilofhome said:


> You ask for my views on what rights do I think are acceptable for what goes on in a bedroom... that's my answer.
> 
> My view is dealt with in that finding.


No, I asked how far the government can intrude in your bedroom? You seem fine with it judging others. Should it be able to judge you if it decides your practices offend. Or are your practices private and between you and yours?


----------



## mmoetc

Jolly said:


> No, I think Best Practice is Best Policy.
> 
> I believe the government should encourage a one man/one woman _covenant_ marriage...A marriage that is harder to get into and harder to get out of. I believe the government should encourage raising children in the best environment possible. Having seen nothing that truly changes my mind, I believe that environment to still be the traditional family.
> 
> I'm not wild about the single mom travesty that we currently have in society. I think that is a prime example of social engineering and unexpected consequences of the government meddling where it has no business.
> 
> As for your litany of gay woes in society, I would submit there are already societal mechanisms to get past most of that. And if not, there are usually easily done work-arounds...not everybody gets what they want, when they want it. I certainly don't. You cannot legislate an end to discrimination, and everybody is discriminated against by others, at some and various points in their lives.
> 
> Therefore, learn to cope with some of the things you don't like, just like the rest of us.


And part of that coping is working to change laws that erect arbitrary barriers. I agree that discrimination and bigotry will never disappear and no amount of legislation will change some minds. But it shouldn't be the role of the government to aid and abet that discrimination. There's an interesting line in our founding documents that says something about all men being created equal and a couple hundred years of law trying to ensure that the law treats all men, and now even women, equally.


----------



## kasilofhome

mmoetc said:


> No, I asked how far the government can intrude in your bedroom? You seem fine with it judging others. Should it be able to judge you if it decides your practices offend. Or are your practices private and between you and yours?


Already answered... it is not changing deal with the fact that you do not like the answer. You aren't entitled to get the answer you want.

Try MoveOn. Org


----------



## arabian knight

Ouch that hurt. LOL


----------



## HDRider

mmoetc said:


> No, I asked how far the government can intrude in your bedroom? You seem fine with it judging others. Should it be able to judge you if it decides your practices offend. Or are your practices private and between you and yours?


Who has suggested the goverment interfere with or intrude upon bedroom activities?

Refusing to accept repeated public attempts to make abnormal normal is not the same as me, society or the goverment intruding into PRIVATE matters. 

Homos are the ones insisting to make their abnormal behavior and preferences public.


----------



## mmoetc

kasilofhome said:


> As a hetrosexual wife..... I need to show my poa to help him with lots of things. Here is what it is like for heterosexual married persons
> 
> I get a letter addressed
> 
> Mrs,hetro.
> For Mr. Hetro.
> 
> Body of the letter states I am to call their office.
> I call their office
> 
> I am told they can't talk to me due to hipa laws he will have to call.
> 
> I ask them to take a moment and to check their files as their records will show
> That I am on file,it is noted, they sent the letter to me.
> 
> Wait, listen to a 15 second loop of music followed by your call is really important to us please hold on.
> 
> 27 minutes later they inform me I must be mistake that I am not on file.
> Could I get a signed notarize copy of a form they
> could sent to me in the mail and I can return by mail.
> 
> I tell them per their letter to me the need the info quicker than that can happen.
> I ask if he can just say authorize me to deal with it.
> 
> They tell me that their records show he's not authorized to make decisions due to health issues
> 
> 
> So good luck Sally.
> 
> 
> 
> Only homos have to jump thru hoops. Bull carp. That's life. For everyone.... equality mean yep, you get treated equal.... you just think the grass is greener on the other side ...wrong but you buy the bull someone tells you that you face that misery because of who your partner is.


Sorry your doctor's office can't keep their records straight. I'm sure it's somehow Obama's fault. HIPAA release forms have a line authorizing the release of information to "spouse". A simple, easy option unavailable to those who are denied the option to marry or whose legal marriages currently go unrecognized by the jurdisdiction they live in, even though other marriages conducted under the same laws are.

I'm sorry your such a victim of a system that seemed to allow you to marry to take advantage of government programs and benefits denied to others.


----------



## mmoetc

HDRider said:


> Who has suggested the goverment interfere with or intrude upon bedroom activities?
> 
> Refusing to accept repeated public attempts to make abnormal normal is not the same as me, society or the goverment intruding into PRIVATE matters.
> 
> Homos are the ones insisting to make their abnormal behavior and preferences public.


Kasilofhome, for one. By advocating for making certain activities by same sex couples illegal while retaining their legality for heterosexuals it does allow the government access and ability to punish private behavior. There are already laws prohibiting any such activity in public. Why extend the proscription to only one group if the intent isn't to intrude?


----------



## kasilofhome

Sorry, did I say doctors office....no
That is for social security. I am on hold with them again... faced them there letter showing them they do have me on file or they have already breached his hipa rights with what they sent to me to deal with.


----------



## kasilofhome

mmoetc said:


> Kasilofhome, for one. By advocating for making certain activities by same sex couples illegal while retaining their legality for heterosexuals it does allow the government access and ability to punish private behavior. There are already laws prohibiting any such activity in public. Why extend the proscription to only one group if the intent isn't to intrude?


No, start by reading the case... the findings, get your facts together and stop assuming and judging.


----------



## painterswife

kasilofhome said:


> No, start by reading the case... the findings, get your facts together and stop assuming and judging.


Rude. You tell people to do things but you will not actually state your position in your own words.


----------



## Jolly

mmoetc said:


> And part of that coping is working to change laws that erect arbitrary barriers. I agree that discrimination and bigotry will never disappear and no amount of legislation will change some minds. But it shouldn't be the role of the government to aid and abet that discrimination. There's an interesting line in our founding documents that says something about all men being created equal and a couple hundred years of law trying to ensure that the law treats all men, and now even women, equally.


All men are created equal, they just don't stay that way very long.

This nation is not about total equality. This nation is about freedom and equality of opportunity. In 1776 Europe, you were born to a station in life and rarely did you escape that strati. In the new country of the United States, you were assured of three things - Life, Liberty and The Pursuit of Happiness.

Even in America today, I don't care what you are - gay, straight, black, hispanic, male, female, whatever - opportunity awaits. You can have a great life, a successful life, an abundant life.

But it's hard to do it, if the only vision you have, is through a lens that sees only discrimination.


----------



## kasilofhome

I am not a victim.... this is real life everyone faces it. Dealing with life has challenges.

Am I a victim because to succeed in life takes time and energy.

Sometimes you can find humor in the whole mess. And just laugh at it. 

As Jeff foxworthy says...heresyour card.

You are not a victim unless you want to be...I am not going to allow you to label me a victim keep that nasty card for someone who wants.... I living life. To busy to play victim..


----------



## mmoetc

kasilofhome said:


> No, start by reading the case... the findings, get your facts together and stop assuming and judging.


I did. The Texas law overturned specifically banned certain acts between "same sex couples". The specific case involved a neighbor calling in a complaint that led to police breaking down a door to witness the act in question. Maybe you should state what point you are trying to make rather than just saying "read the case." Maybe you should read the later case invalidating this law. 

Should the police be able to break into your home to judge whether your sex life is "normal"?


----------



## Irish Pixie

kasilofhome said:


> I am not a victim.... this is real life everyone faces it. Dealing with life has challenges.
> 
> Am I a victim because to succeed in life takes time and energy.
> 
> Sometimes you can find humor in the whole mess. And just laugh at it.
> 
> As Jeff foxworthy says...heresyour card.
> 
> You are not a victim unless you want to be...I am not going to allow you to label me a victim keep that nasty card for someone who wants.... I living life. To busy to play victim..


I still think that all the people that have so vehemently hated Obama for the last umpteen years are really a victim of his administration.


----------



## mmoetc

Jolly said:


> All men are created equal, they just don't stay that way very long.
> 
> This nation is not about total equality. This nation is about freedom and equality of opportunity. In 1776 Europe, you were born to a station in life and rarely did you escape that strati. In the new country of the United States, you were assured of three things - Life, Liberty and The Pursuit of Happiness.
> 
> Even in America today, I don't care what you are - gay, straight, black, hispanic, male, female, whatever - opportunity awaits. You can have a great life, a successful life, an abundant life.
> 
> But it's hard to do it, if the only vision you have, is through a lens that sees only discrimination.


You're right, if all you see is discrimination you'll be held back. Of course you can also be held back by actual discrimination. And shouldn't gay folk have that same freedom of opportunity just like you or I? Shouldn't they be judged on their talents and abilities not who they wake up next to?


----------



## Jolly

About Christian love...

In these debates, people often throw around the topic of Christian Love as a debating tool or as a verbal lash..."If you were a good Christian, filled with the Love of Jesus, you would love me and give me whatever I want".

That's simply not true.

The New Testament is quite discriminatory. There are proscribed many things that Christians simply should not or cannot do, even under the umbrella of Love. Yes, Christ commands us to love everyone. But loving someone does not mean that we must accept, condone or overlook the sins of the person.

God's people must rebuke sin.

A link for some of you to ponder:

http://www.gospelway.com/teaching/rebuking_sin.php


----------



## kasilofhome

kasilofhome said:


> No the Hardwick case.
> 
> 
> It happened in Georgia



How about using the case I gave you not the one you selected.


----------



## Jolly

mmoetc said:


> You're right, if all you see is discrimination you'll be held back. Of course you can also be held back by actual discrimination. And shouldn't gay folk have that same freedom of opportunity just like you or I? Shouldn't they be judged on their talents and abilities not who they wake up next to?


If they are held back, it is because they hold themselves back.


----------



## mmoetc

kasilofhome said:


> How about using the case I gave you not the one you selected.


I did. It was part of the case later overturned. The Georgia law also specifically targeted homosexual acts while making no mention of a crime if the acts were between heterosexuals. The concept remains the same. Why are you so interested in what happens behind others closed doors so as to make things illegal for them that you and hubby can freely engage in? Who gets to come bursting through your door.


----------



## susieneddy

interesting chart. It fits quite a few conservatives folks on here arguing against homosexuality. It shows that they are in the minority. Even the Mod/Lib Republicans are changing their opinions


----------



## mmoetc

Jolly said:


> About Christian love...
> 
> In these debates, people often throw around the topic of Christian Love as a debating tool or as a verbal lash..."If you were a good Christian, filled with the Love of Jesus, you would love me and give me whatever I want".
> 
> That's simply not true.
> 
> The New Testament is quite discriminatory. There are proscribed many things that Christians simply should not or cannot do, even under the umbrella of Love. Yes, Christ commands us to love everyone. But loving someone does not mean that we must accept, condone or overlook the sins of the person.
> 
> God's people must rebuke sin.
> 
> A link for some of you to ponder:
> 
> http://www.gospelway.com/teaching/rebuking_sin.php


And one for you. http://www.huffingtonpost.com/rev-susan-russell/god-jesus--the-bible-faqs_b_7523704.html

Ain't Christianity grand?


----------



## Jolly

susieneddy said:


> interesting chart. It fits quite a few conservatives folks on here arguing against homosexuality. It shows that they are in the minority. Even the Mod/Lib Republicans are changing their opinions


Yes, and only about 35% of people in America advocated independence from England in the 1770's.


----------



## mmoetc

Jolly said:


> If they are held back, it is because they hold themselves back.


I guess that should have been the attitude of the lawyer denied partnership for his sexuality and the young man who helped him fight that denial kasiloff has mentioned, and praised, before.


----------



## Jolly

mmoetc said:


> And one for you. http://www.huffingtonpost.com/rev-susan-russell/god-jesus--the-bible-faqs_b_7523704.html
> 
> Ain't Christianity grand?


Not one single supporting Scripture.

Not one.

Zero. Zippola, Nada.

No more credence than a Spaghetti Monster argument. Surely you can do better than that?


----------



## kasilofhome

Ok. How did the police find the act that was illegal.

There is your answer.

Someone let the police in the home with a warrant. Right
And in the course of the legal search the officer found two men performing oral sex in violation of the law.

So, word to the wise.. the police had a warrent. With out it the would not be able to enter.

So, when does the police have the right to enter your bedroom...

When they have a legal doc called warrant.

No special treatment... works for all races,sizes, ages, professions, locations....it's equality at its best.


Now, how do you find victim hood in being treated equal.


----------



## Jolly

mmoetc said:


> I guess that should have been the attitude of the lawyer denied partnership for his sexuality and the young man who helped him fight that denial kasiloff has mentioned, and praised, before.


Would you like some cheese with that whine?

People get denied things all the time. Because they're male. because they're female. Because they have oriental ancestors. Because they are overweight. Because they are not good looking.

I kinda feel sorry for y'all, chained by your sexual orientation to a pre-determined life of misery.

[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZAAKPJEq1Ew[/ame]


----------



## kasilofhome

mmoetc said:


> I guess that should have been the attitude of the lawyer denied partnership for his sexuality and the young man who helped him fight that denial kasiloff has mentioned, and praised, before.


Notice that good people stand up for fairness ...he might not go to the gays wedding or bake a cake but what he did did not compromise his faith.


----------



## mmoetc

Jolly said:


> Not one single supporting Scripture.
> 
> Not one.
> 
> Zero. Zippola, Nada.
> 
> No more credence than a Spaghetti Monster argument. Surely you can do better than that?


But I'm not arguing beliefs. I can't prove or disprove the validity of your beliefs or anyone else's no matter how many scriptures are quoted. If all Christians believed the same there wouldn't be hundreds of different sects all with slightly different interpretations of what your one holy book means. Wars wouldn't gave been fought over those interpretations for centuries. I did point out that even among your own broad religion attitudes and interpretations of god's will differ. I'll take you at your word that you believe what you believe. I'm not trying to change your beliefs. What I am arguing against is that your beliefs and narrow interpretation or any other be the law of this land. You can dislike, disapprove, speak out against, or not associate with anyone you wish. Just don't use the law to codify that behavior.


----------



## susieneddy

Jolly said:


> Yes, and only about 35% of people in America advocated independence from England in the 1770's.


if you say so but times are changing and you are being left behind


----------



## mmoetc

Jolly said:


> Would you like some cheese with that whine?
> 
> People get denied things all the time. Because they're male. because they're female. Because they have oriental ancestors. Because they are overweight. Because they are not good looking.
> 
> I kinda feel sorry for y'all, chained by your sexual orientation to a pre-determined life of misery.
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZAAKPJEq1Ew


But why was it a good thing for him to stand up for and fight for his right to be judged on ability, not sexuality, in this case. Shouldn't he have accepted your advice to realize that such discrimination is just a part of life and moved on? Kasiloff never really said whether legal grounds or the threat of them were used to resolve this but don't businesses have the right to promote who they will regardless of the reason?


----------



## mmoetc

kasilofhome said:


> Ok. How did the police find the act that was illegal.
> 
> There is your answer.
> 
> Someone let the police in the home with a warrant. Right
> And in the course of the legal search the officer found two men performing oral sex in violation of the law.
> 
> So, word to the wise.. the police had a warrent. With out it the would not be able to enter.
> 
> So, when does the police have the right to enter your bedroom...
> 
> When they have a legal doc called warrant.
> 
> No special treatment... works for all races,sizes, ages, professions, locations....it's equality at its best.
> 
> 
> Now, how do you find victim hood in being treated equal.


What was in question in the case was whether the act was illegal, not how it was found. The warrant and subsequent search were not in question. What was questioned, answered and later overturned was whether the government had the right to declare sexual acts between two consenting adults in the privacy of their own home to be illegal. Based on all of your answers I can only surmise that since you believe in people being treated equally you would be equally comfortable with some government agency getting the proper warrants to observe that you and yours are going about your sex life the "approved" way and that all approved acts for you and yours would be equally approved for all consenting adults.


----------



## mmoetc

kasilofhome said:


> Notice that good people stand up for fairness ...he might not go to the gays wedding or bake a cake but what he did did not compromise his faith.


And yet if I stood up for the same fairness in the same situation I would likely be accused of trying to force my beliefs on the partners and enabling the victimhood of the gay lawyer. Why is the standard different for your young man? Why is he noble, yet I'd be evil for advocating the same thing?


----------



## 7thswan

susieneddy said:


> if you say so but times are changing and you are being left behind


We are being taken back-to the Soviet Union.


----------



## Tiempo

7thswan said:


> We are being taken back-to the Soviet Union.


I was in the Soviet Union... not even close.


----------



## 7thswan

Tiempo said:


> I was in the Soviet Union... not even close.


Ya, my Mom was born there-I'm talking the old SU. But for a hater like Obama, any old 3rd world country would be ok with him. Don't forget, he did say he was going to fundamentaly transform America- what are you thinking he ment? I know what he ment, because I know his past.


----------



## 7thswan

Jolly said:


> Well, if you had to sleep with Moochelle...


Maybe BJ can give the mooch his spare parts,because many think she is transitioning into a man. Many actualy think she was born a man, she was just real ugly thats all.
And ya, I do belive all those people from HI and Chi. that say obama is gay. It's not unusual for gay people to marry to hide it.


----------



## painterswife

7thswan said:


> Ya, my Mom was born there-I'm talking the old SU. But for a hater like Obama, any old 3rd world country would be ok with him. Don't forget, he did say he was going to fundamentaly transform America- what are you thinking he ment? I know what he ment, because I know his past.


Yes, you know his past from all those wacko sites full of untruths like his fake birth certificate.


----------



## painterswife

7thswan said:


> Maybe BJ can give the mooch his spare parts,because many think she is transitioning into a man. Many actualy think she was born a man, she was just real ugly thats all.
> And ya, I do belive all those people from HI and Chi. that say obama is gay. It's not unusual for gay people to marry to hide it.


You really like to post ugly, ugly stuff. Do you get a thrill out of it?


----------



## 7thswan

painterswife said:


> Yes, you know his past from all those wacko sites full of untruths like his fake birth certificate.


Really, like his own bio that SAID he was born in Kenya for 16 years. Your beloved AP even had an article-BORN IN KENYA, along with another maybe 15 printed sourses. But that was inconvient when he was held up for pres. The media won and America looses. We'll deal with the disease of obama and the pox he will leave on this Nation.


----------



## painterswife

7thswan said:


> Really, like his own bio that SAID he was born in Kenya for 16 years. Your beloved AP even had an article-BORN IN KENYA, along with another maybe 15 printed sourses. But that was inconvient when he was held up for pres. The media won and America looses. We'll deal with the disease of obama and the pox he will leave on this Nation.


Your post are entertaining, pure fiction.


----------



## 7thswan

painterswife said:


> You really like to post ugly, ugly stuff. Do you get a thrill out of it?


Do you get it now, just how much of an embaressment obama is? Do YOU see what the rest of the world sees in obama? Obama is a ugly,horrible person for trashing our Country. You expect me to cover for the likes of his type. I'm not going to pretend while he takes my home down.


----------



## painterswife

7thswan said:


> Do you get it now, just how much of an embaressment obama is? Do YOU see what the rest of the world sees in obama? Obama is a ugly,horrible person for trashing our Country. You expect me to cover for the likes of his type. I'm not going to pretend while he takes my home down.


I get it but not the same thing you get.


----------



## arabian knight

7thswan said:


> Really, like his own bio that SAID he was born in Kenya for 16 years. Your beloved AP even had an article-BORN IN KENYA, along with another maybe 15 printed sourses. But that was inconvient when he was held up for pres. The media won and America looses. We'll deal with the disease of obama and the pox he will leave on this Nation.


Ya and as dunken pot smoker youth that never grew up to take responsibility seriously either. And is so out of touch with America it stinks to high heaven.
Boy was the wool ever pulled over so many eyes and they still have them closed for the truth.


----------



## 7thswan

painterswife said:


> Your post are entertaining, pure fiction.


seriously, you haven't see all of the stuff? People do have all the info cataloged away, or areyou of the thought that it has been scrubbed?


----------



## painterswife

7thswan said:


> seriously, you haven't see all of the stuff? People do have all the info cataloged away, or areyou of the thought that it has been scrubbed?


I know you have said it before. You have pages and pages of crap that you have squirreled away. Sorry means nothing. All I have to do is look at your "proof" on the birth certificate and I know you have nothing based in reality.


----------



## 7thswan

https://onceuponatimeinthewest1.wordpress.com/45-goals-of-communism/
15. Capture one or both of the political parties in the United States.
16. Use technical decisions of the courts to weaken basic American institutions by claiming their activities violate civil rights.
17. Get control of the schools. Use them as transmission belts for socialism and current Communist propaganda. Soften the curriculum. Get control of teachers&#8217; associations. Put the party line in textbooks.
18. Gain control of all student newspapers.
19. Use student riots to foment public protests against programs or organizations which are under Communist attack.
20. Infiltrate the press. Get control of book-review assignments, editorial writing, policymaking positions.
21. Gain control of key positions in radio, TV, and motion pictures.
22. Continue discrediting American culture by degrading all forms of artistic expression. An American Communist cell was told to &#8220;eliminate all good sculpture from parks and buildings, substitute shapeless, awkward and meaningless forms.&#8221;
23. Control art critics and directors of art museums. &#8220;Our plan is to promote ugliness, repulsive, meaningless art.&#8221;
24. Eliminate all laws governing obscenity by calling them &#8220;censorship&#8221; and a violation of free speech and free press.
25. Break down cultural standards of morality by promoting pornography and obscenity in books, magazines, motion pictures, radio, and TV.
26. Present homosexuality, degeneracy and promiscuity as &#8220;normal, natural, healthy.&#8221;
27. Infiltrate the churches and replace revealed religion with &#8220;social&#8221; religion. Discredit the Bible and emphasize the need for intellectual maturity which does not need a &#8220;religious crutch.&#8221;
28. Eliminate prayer or any phase of religious expression in the schools on the ground that it violates the principle of &#8220;separation of church and state.&#8221;
29. Discredit the American Constitution by calling it inadequate, old-fashioned, out of step with modern needs, a hindrance to cooperation between nations on a worldwide basis.

there's yours # 20. check out the rest at link.


----------



## 7thswan

painterswife said:


> I know you have said it before. You have pages and pages of crap that you have squirreled away. Sorry means nothing. All I have to do is look at your "proof" on the birth certificate and I know you have nothing based in reality.


My proof?, it's a fake, even a obama document expert used by his attorneys says it's fake. It's so easy to see anyway, just with bare eyeballs. It's him flipping us the bird, he knows noone is going to shake THAT tree. Someone will call "rayciss" and everyone's spine will crumble.


----------



## 7thswan

arabian knight said:


> Ya and as dunken pot smoker youth that never grew up to take responsibility seriously either. And is so out of touch with America it stinks to high heaven.
> Boy was the wool ever pulled over so many eyes and they still have them closed for the truth.


Ya, school bud of his came out on vid. says he is a homosexual, druggie, foriener.


----------



## painterswife

7thswan said:


> Ya, school bud of his came out on vid. says he is a homosexual, druggie, foriener.


Do you think if you write it enough, it will make it true? Has not worked in the last 6 or so years. You know what they say about expecting different results when you keep doing the same thing over and over.


----------



## beowoulf90

Irish Pixie said:


> I still think that all the people that have so vehemently hated Obama for the last umpteen years are really a victim of his administration.



Well I said I was done, but can't let this pass..

You would be wrong the victims of the 0bama admin. are those who support him. They will be the ones who suffer under Socialism and his tyranny. 
The rest of us will continue to fight him and live by the Constitution of the United States of America.

You think you will be happy under Socialism, but wait your taxes will be 40 - 55% and you will have to wait in line for everything..

Just like those I personally know that voted for 0bama and his healthcare scheme.. They thought they were going to get subsidized and get "free" healthcare.. Well they found out the reality of this scheme and now are paying more for less...


----------



## 7thswan

here's your one image


----------



## painterswife

7thswan said:


> here's your one image


Laughter is good for your health. Thanks you do keep me LOLing.


----------



## 7thswan

painterswife said:


> Do you think if you write it enough, it will make it true? Has not worked in the last 6 or so years. You know what they say about expecting different results when you keep doing the same thing over and over.


It won't go away, no matter how much you try to ignore it. All of a sudden when we are free of the looser, people will come out of the woodwork. How's that library going to look.


----------



## 7thswan

painterswife said:


> Laughter is good for your health. Thanks you do keep me LOLing.


Even your eyes lie to you don't they.


----------



## painterswife

7thswan said:


> It won't go away, no matter how much you try to ignore it. All of a sudden when we are free of the looser, people will come out of the woodwork. How's that library going to look.


If they don't have the guts to provide proof now, stand up now and are hiding in the woodwork then I am not worried. If they don't have proof now, they will never have it.

Conspiracy theories come and they go, providing entertainment for all.


----------



## painterswife

7thswan said:


> Even your eyes lie to you don't they.


Now if Obama could fake a birth certificate, someone else could fake a news report. See what I am saying.


----------



## wr

7thswan said:


> Ya, school bud of his came out on vid. says he is a homosexual, druggie, foriener.


Unless school bud wants to release the video of he and the president engaged in the act, there is no way to prove someone is gay or not. 

There has also been speculation that Richard Nixon, Abraham Lincoln, James Buchanan, and J. Edgar Hoover were also gay but then again, no real proof and to me, that's nothing more than slander.


----------



## FeralFemale

wr said:


> Unless school bud wants to release the video of he and the president engaged in the act, there is no way to prove someone is gay or not.
> 
> There has also been speculation that Richard Nixon, Abraham Lincoln, James Buchanan, and J. Edgar Hoover were also gay but then again, no real proof and to me, that's nothing more than slander.


But how could it be slander? There's nothing wrong with being gay.


----------



## FeralFemale

painterswife said:


> Now if Obama could fake a birth certificate, someone else could fake a news report. See what I am saying.


No. It's true. There was a time when part of Obama's mystique was being born in Kenya. It was a romantic idea and helped his image. His publisher's bio stated he was kenyan born for 16 years (you can even find this on snopes) There were multiple news articles about the kenyan born illinois senator.

Then he had legit and realistic presidential hopes and it became inconvenient. Suddenly the kenyan born story got scrubbed as much as it could be scrubbed because the truth of being born in hawaii better suited his interests. 

You voted for a flim flam man. A chameleon. Obama voters cannot admit what he truly is because that will just show their own poor judgment.


----------



## painterswife

FeralFemale said:


> No. It's true. There was a time when part of Obama's mystique was being born in Kenya. It was a romantic idea and helped his image. His publisher's bio stated he was kenyan born for 16 years (you can even find this on snopes) There were multiple news articles about the kenyan born illinois senator.
> 
> Then he had legit and realistic presidential hopes and it became inconvenient. Suddenly the kenyan born story got scrubbed as much as it could be scrubbed because the truth of being born in hawaii better suited his interests.
> 
> You voted for a flim flam man. A chameleon. Obama voters cannot admit what he truly is because that will just show their own poor judgment.


I did not vote for Obama. So wrong again.


----------



## kasilofhome

mmoetc said:


> What was in question in the case was whether the act was illegal, not how it was found. The warrant and subsequent search were not in question. What was questioned, answered and later overturned was whether the government had the right to declare sexual acts between two consenting adults in the privacy of their own home to be illegal. Based on all of your answers I can only surmise that since you believe in people being treated equally you would be equally comfortable with some government agency getting the proper warrants to observe that you and yours are going about your sex life the "approved" way and that all approved acts for you and yours would be equally approved for all consenting adults.



Yea you are right.... busted life is not equal.

I have never had a warrant to search any thing to include any home .....I know really in fair.


----------



## FeralFemale

painterswife said:


> I did not vote for Obama. So wrong again.


So you voted for a fringe candidate? lol...ok then..


----------



## 7thswan

FeralFemale said:


> No. It's true. There was a time when part of Obama's mystique was being born in Kenya. It was a romantic idea and helped his image. His publisher's bio stated he was kenyan born for 16 years (you can even find this on snopes) There were multiple news articles about the kenyan born illinois senator.
> 
> Then he had legit and realistic presidential hopes and it became inconvenient. Suddenly the kenyan born story got scrubbed as much as it could be scrubbed because the truth of being born in hawaii better suited his interests.
> 
> You voted for a flim flam man. A chameleon. Obama voters cannot admit what he truly is because that will just show their own poor judgment.


Not to mention ,just before Obama-8 times ,attempts were made to change the NBC clause in the Constitution,all failed. So they changed Obama's birth "story"; And just ignored the Constitution.


----------



## 7thswan

wr said:


> Unless school bud wants to release the video of he and the president engaged in the act, there is no way to prove someone is gay or not.
> 
> There has also been speculation that Richard Nixon, Abraham Lincoln, James Buchanan, and J. Edgar Hoover were also gay but then again, no real proof and to me, that's nothing more than slander.


Considering what has happened to anyone that can shovel obamas dirt, I'd say anyone that comes forward is pursueing an act of bravery. Larry Sinclair.


----------



## 7thswan

painterswife said:


> Now if Obama could fake a birth certificate, someone else could fake a news report. See what I am saying.


But he didn't fake the BC, it didn't fly. Someone forgot to flatten the layers of the parts of the bc's they put together, before they hit "enter". Simple mistake-or was it? No, it was done to flip us off, just like the smiley face in the signature.


----------



## chamoisee

I happen to think Jesus was gay. Seriously! He never married, in a time when all rabbis were expected to marry. He had interesting things to say about eunuchs. He was surrounded by 12 men, who he said had to love him more than their wives and family. They competed for his love and attention, and were jealous of John the beloved, his favorite. I'm of the opinion that the reason Judas gave that kiss of betrayal was because he was romantically involved and felt slighted...which also explains his sudden change of heart and the fact that he killed himself afterwards. That was an act of reckless passion.


----------



## painterswife

7thswan said:


> But he didn't fake the BC, it didn't fly. Someone forgot to flatten the layers of the parts of the bc's they put together, before they hit "enter". Simple mistake-or was it? No, it was done to flip us off, just like the smiley face in the signature.


You should do some research about scanning and stop listening to the quacks. They are placing the crap and you are rolling in it.


----------



## wr

FeralFemale said:


> But how could it be slander? There's nothing wrong with being gay.


It would be a like calling you a Satanist. There's technically nothing wrong with Satanists if someone wishes to be a practicing Satanist it but if you don't, you might not appreciate your friends and neighbors thinking you are.


----------



## 7thswan

painterswife said:


> You should do some research about scanning and stop listening to the quacks. They are placing the crap and you are rolling in it.


Sure, the obots put stuff out, but it dosen't stand up. The fake bc was posted on .us.gov.site.


----------



## Irish Pixie

painterswife said:


> Your post are entertaining, pure fiction.


I have to disagree with the entertaining, the fiction part is spot on.


----------



## Irish Pixie

beowoulf90 said:


> Well I said I was done, but can't let this pass..
> 
> You would be wrong the victims of the 0bama admin. are those who support him. They will be the ones who suffer under Socialism and his tyranny.
> The rest of us will continue to fight him and live by the Constitution of the United States of America.
> 
> You think you will be happy under Socialism, but wait your taxes will be 40 - 55% and you will have to wait in line for everything..
> 
> Just like those I personally know that voted for 0bama and his healthcare scheme.. They thought they were going to get subsidized and get "free" healthcare.. Well they found out the reality of this scheme and now are paying more for less...


Did you miss that it's my opinion? It's infinitely more credible than the bat guano crazy that is being posted on this thread.


----------



## Irish Pixie

7thswan said:


> Even your eyes lie to you don't they.


Mine do it all the time! It usually involves the size of sweets tho. Don't you hate when that happens? :grin:


----------



## Jolly

mmoetc said:


> But I'm not arguing beliefs. I can't prove or disprove the validity of your beliefs or anyone else's no matter how many scriptures are quoted. If all Christians believed the same there wouldn't be hundreds of different sects all with slightly different interpretations of what your one holy book means. Wars wouldn't gave been fought over those interpretations for centuries. I did point out that even among your own broad religion attitudes and interpretations of god's will differ. I'll take you at your word that you believe what you believe. I'm not trying to change your beliefs. What I am arguing against is that your beliefs and narrow interpretation or any other be the law of this land. You can dislike, disapprove, speak out against, or not associate with anyone you wish. Just don't use the law to codify that behavior.


You used about the most liberal clerical person you could find, whose theology is probably not as good as my Sheltie's.

If you want to argue Bible, don't give me some half-baked bozo's musings. Give me chapter and verse why you think what you think, and I'll be glad to answer.


----------



## Jolly

susieneddy said:


> if you say so but times are changing and you are being left behind


Or maybe I'm way out in front. :hobbyhors


----------



## Jolly

painterswife said:


> Your post are entertaining, pure fiction.


Kinda like Obama's transcripts?


----------



## painterswife

7thswan said:


> Sure, the obots put stuff out, but it dosen't stand up. The fake bc was posted on .us.gov.site.


Hint, hint it was not fake. You wacko websites are wacko.


----------



## Irish Pixie

FeralFemale said:


> So you voted for a fringe candidate? lol...ok then..


I did too, for the second election. What do you suggest if you don't like either candidate, just don't vote?


----------



## Patchouli

kasilofhome said:


> Already answered... it is not changing deal with the fact that you do not like the answer. You aren't entitled to get the answer you want.
> 
> Try MoveOn. Org


So basically you answered the question then: you deserve complete privacy in your bedroom. So why are you so unwilling to give that same privacy and respect to everyone else?


----------



## Patchouli

Jolly said:


> All men are created equal, they just don't stay that way very long.
> 
> This nation is not about total equality. This nation is about freedom and equality of opportunity. In 1776 Europe, you were born to a station in life and rarely did you escape that strati. In the new country of the United States, you were assured of three things - Life, Liberty and The Pursuit of Happiness.
> 
> Even in America today, I don't care what you are - gay, straight, black, hispanic, male, female, whatever - opportunity awaits. You can have a great life, a successful life, an abundant life.
> 
> But it's hard to do it, if the only vision you have, is through a lens that sees only discrimination.


It's hard to see anything but discrimination when you get jeered at, bullied, abused, rejected by your family, turned down for jobs, denied basic rights by your government, mistreated by religious people, etc. 

It's so easy to pontificate about opportunity as a straight white male. You have had life handed to you on a platter and you don't even know it. Even if you were born in poverty with uneducated parents you were still a whole lot of rungs up the ladder from the rest of Americans.


----------



## kasilofhome

mmoetc said:


> Kasilofhome, for one. By advocating for making certain activities by same sex couples illegal while retaining their legality for heterosexuals it does allow the government access and ability to punish private behavior. There are already laws prohibiting any such activity in public. Why extend the proscription to only one group if the intent isn't to intrude?





kasilofhome said:


> No, start by reading the case... the findings, get your facts together and stop assuming and judging.





mmoetc said:


> I did. The Texas law overturned specifically banned certain acts between "same sex couples". The specific case involved a neighbor calling in a complaint that led to police breaking down a door to witness the act in question. Maybe you should state what point you are trying to make rather than just saying "read the case." Maybe you should read the later case invalidating this law.
> 
> Should the police be able to break into your home to judge whether your sex life is "normal"?





kasilofhome said:


> Ok. How did the police find the act that was illegal.
> 
> There is your answer.
> 
> Someone let the police in the home with a warrant. Right
> And in the course of the legal search the officer found two men performing oral sex in violation of the law.
> 
> So, word to the wise.. the police had a warrent. With out it the would not be able to enter.
> 
> So, when does the police have the right to enter your bedroom...
> 
> When they have a legal doc called warrant.
> 
> No special treatment... works for all races,sizes, ages, professions, locations....it's equality at its best.
> 
> 
> Now, how do you find victim hood in being treated equal.





mmoetc said:


> What was in question in the case was whether the act was illegal,
> 
> 
> 
> 
> by Kasilof
> Sorry I interpered your question to be....how far could the police go ... break ones house? Should police be in people's bedroom?
> 
> I had no idea your word meant a totally different question...
> Clearly in supporting the Hardwick case... a warrent.. is when I think that a police can enter any room In the home. Is that a problem of unfairness that only impacts homosexuals. Since it was illegal... booked and charge it was just as if the had found a kidnapped perspn the room ...it would have resulted in
> Immediate action of a cop seeing a crime processes.
> 
> End of Kasilof
> 
> 
> not how it was found. The warrant and subsequent search were not in question. What was questioned, answered and later overturned was whether the government had the right to declare sexual acts between two consenting adults in the privacy of their own home to be illegal. Based on all of your answers I can only surmise that since you believe in people being treated equally you would be equally comfortable with some government agency getting the proper warrants to observe that you and yours are going about your sex life the "approved" way and that all approved acts for you and yours would be equally approved for all consenting adults.



So sorry that I did really answer the question you did ask.. twisting reality does not change reality


----------



## Patchouli

kasilofhome said:


> I am not a victim.... this is real life everyone faces it. Dealing with life has challenges.
> 
> Am I a victim because to succeed in life takes time and energy.
> 
> Sometimes you can find humor in the whole mess. And just laugh at it.
> 
> As Jeff foxworthy says...heresyour card.
> 
> You are not a victim unless you want to be...I am not going to allow you to label me a victim keep that nasty card for someone who wants.... I living life. To busy to play victim..


You really need to listen to yourself because on the one hand I could collect an enormous number of posts from you over the years of complaints about your life from your hard childhood to your marriage of convenience to all of your current hard work to pull yourself up from a pile of losses and a never ending uphill struggle with the whole world against you. And every post ends with my life is much harder than yours but you don't see me playing the victim card. 

I am not knocking you, I am perpetually impressed by how hard your life has been and how hard you have worked at keeping your head above water. I really genuinely am. But let's be honest you can call it the victim card or the sympathy card or whatever you prefer but you still play it in almost every thread.


----------



## FeralFemale

wr said:


> It would be a like calling you a Satanist. There's technically nothing wrong with Satanists if someone wishes to be a practicing Satanist it but if you don't, you might not appreciate your friends and neighbors thinking you are.


I can't believe you just compared being gay to being a satanist.


----------



## Irish Pixie

FeralFemale said:


> I can't believe you just compared being gay to being a satanist.


She didn't. Read it again, maybe more slowly?


----------



## Patchouli

7thswan said:


> Maybe BJ can give the mooch his spare parts,because many think she is transitioning into a man. Many actualy think she was born a man, she was just real ugly thats all.
> And ya, I do belive all those people from HI and Chi. that say obama is gay. It's not unusual for gay people to marry to hide it.


I hope I never wander into your alternate universe. :spinsmiley:


----------



## wr

FeralFemale said:


> I can't believe you just compared being gay to being a satanist.


I didn't compare being gay to being a satanist at all. I made a statement about affixing identifying labels that may not be true. 

There is no tangible proof that Obama is gay and there is no tangible proof that you're a practicing Satanist but it's pretty hard to prove either one.


----------



## MO_cows

Patchouli said:


> It's hard to see anything but discrimination when you get jeered at, bullied, abused, rejected by your family, turned down for jobs, denied basic rights by your government, mistreated by religious people, etc.
> 
> It's so easy to pontificate about opportunity as a straight white male. You have had life handed to you on a platter and you don't even know it. Even if you were born in poverty with uneducated parents you were still a whole lot of rungs up the ladder from the rest of Americans.


What are you talking about, the 1930s? I doubt Poppy is quite that old.......

The way you get "rungs up the ladder" in life is by how you conduct yourself. You can be the straightest, whitest boy ever born but if you conduct yourself as stupid, lazy, hard to get along with, etc., you aren't going anywhere in life. The low rent trailer parks are full of examples.


----------



## JeffreyD

wr said:


> I didn't compare being gay to being a satanist at all. I made a statement about affixing identifying labels that may not be true.
> 
> There is no tangible proof that Obama is gay and there is no tangible proof that you're a practicing Satanist but it's pretty hard to prove either one.


Reggie Love?


----------



## wr

JeffreyD said:


> Reggie Love?


I can't find anything where Obama or Love state they had a relationship. There are a few whispers but that comes back to rumor and speculation.


----------



## JeffreyD

wr said:


> I can't find anything where Obama or Love state they had a relationship. There are a few whispers but that comes back to rumor and speculation.


Do you think they would make it public? Surely you jest!


----------



## kasilofhome

Goggle Obama's high school classmate & video 
Warning this person does support many of the claims that 
Obama got quite the history..... some may want to keep their eyes wide shut and not view it.


----------



## Irish Pixie

MO_cows said:


> What are you talking about, the 1930s? I doubt Poppy is quite that old.......
> 
> The way you get "rungs up the ladder" in life is by how you conduct yourself. You can be the straightest, whitest boy ever born but if you conduct yourself as stupid, lazy, hard to get along with, etc., you aren't going anywhere in life. The low rent trailer parks are full of examples.


I don't think you have to go back any further than the 80s maybe the early 90s- the only way to advance was to stay deep in the closet. 

I agree with the rest of your post tho.


----------



## 7thswan

Patchouli said:


> I hope I never wander into your alternate universe. :spinsmiley:


Mine? I'm not the breeder of Unicorns and Skittle , um, gas.


----------



## FeralFemale

wr said:


> I didn't compare being gay to being a satanist at all. I made a statement about affixing identifying labels that may not be true.
> 
> There is no tangible proof that Obama is gay and there is no tangible proof that you're a practicing Satanist but it's pretty hard to prove either one.


No, you compared, quite directly, being called something as distasteful as a satanist to being called gay, thereby inferring that being gay is as bad as being a satanist. In fact, it is more than an inference. You plainly stated that being called gay is a slander. 

I am not comfortable with the level of homophobia in your statements. Why would it be so bad if Obama were gay?


----------



## painterswife

FeralFemale said:


> No, you compared, quite directly, being called something as distasteful as a satanist to being called gay, thereby inferring that being gay is as bad as being a satanist. In fact, it is more than an inference. You plainly stated that being called gay is a slander.
> 
> I am not comfortable with the level of homophobia in your statements. Why would it be so bad if Obama were gay?


Not the way I read it.


----------



## wr

FeralFemale said:


> No, you compared, quite directly, being called something as distasteful as a satanist to being called gay, thereby inferring that being gay is as bad as being a satanist. In fact, it is more than an inference. You plainly stated that being called gay is a slander.
> 
> I am not comfortable with the level of homophobia in your statements. Why would it be so bad if Obama were gay?


I previously stated that calling someone gay, when there is no actual proof is slanderous, just as it would be to call someone who is Christian something they are not. Obviously, you misinterpreted my comment and I clearly misunderstood your comment about how being gay was slanderous. 

I strongly believe that any gay or straight person should be able to live the life they are comfortable with but no news agency, tabloid or pseudo news agency has the right to out someone nor should someone have to fear being outed. If someone wants to live their life as openly gay, quietly gay or take the none of anyone's business approach, that should be their choice. 

I'm not homophobic at all and quite honestly I find titillating little comments about someone being gay because someone doesn't like their politics to be very poor form. 

*I do extend my apologies for using the analogy I did. It was not intended to offend but more to clarify the fact that unsubstantiated labels are hard to shake. *


----------



## JeffreyD

wr said:


> I previously stated that calling someone gay, when there is no actual proof is slanderous, just as it would be to call someone who is Christian something they are not. Obviously, you misinterpreted my comment and I clearly misunderstood your comment about how being gay was slanderous.
> 
> I strongly believe that any gay or straight person should be able to live the life they are comfortable with but no news agency, tabloid or pseudo news agency has the right to out someone nor should someone have to fear being outed. If someone wants to live their life as openly gay, quietly gay or take the none of anyone's business approach, that should be their choice.
> 
> I'm not homophobic at all and quite honestly I find titillating little comments about someone being gay because someone doesn't like their politics to be very poor form.
> 
> *I do extend my apologies for using the analogy I did. It was not intended to offend but more to clarify the fact that unsubstantiated labels are hard to shake. *


Did it ever occur to you that I based my comment on his associations and past history, not his political leanings? Do you think that's a possibility?


----------



## wr

JeffreyD said:


> Did it ever occur to you that I based my comment on his associations and past history, not his political leanings? Do you think that's a possibility?


I have no idea what you're suggesting? Are you sure you wanted to quote me?


----------



## Patchouli

kasilofhome said:


> Goggle Obama's high school classmate & video
> Warning this person does support many of the claims that
> Obama got quite the history..... some may want to keep their eyes wide shut and not view it.


I am tempted to make a few youtube videos..... :grin:

I have learned some interesting things here like if it's on youtube it must be true and if your search engine can find a link to a story it must be so.


----------



## painterswife

Patchouli said:


> I am tempted to make a few youtube videos..... :grin:
> 
> I have learned some interesting things here like if it's on youtube it must be true and if your search engine can find a link to a story it must be so.


Even better just google and post with out bothering to watch or read the link you think supports your position.


----------



## Patchouli

FeralFemale said:


> No, you compared, quite directly, being called something as distasteful as a satanist to being called gay, thereby inferring that being gay is as bad as being a satanist. In fact, it is more than an inference. You plainly stated that being called gay is a slander.
> 
> I am not comfortable with the level of homophobia in your statements. Why would it be so bad if Obama were gay?


Being a Satanist isn't bad. Misunderstood but not bad.


----------



## JeffreyD

wr said:


> I have no idea what you're suggesting? Are you sure you wanted to quote me?


Sure, here ya go! What was this statement supposed to mean, other than what it says?

"I find titillating little comments about someone being gay because someone doesn't like their politics to be very poor form."


----------



## wr

JeffreyD said:


> Sure, here ya go! What was this statement supposed to mean, other than what it says?
> 
> "I find titillating little comments about someone being gay because someone doesn't like their politics to be very poor form."


Since I didn't quote you, I don't know why you would think I was addressing your comment in any way so your response remains a bit odd to me.


----------



## MO_cows

Irish Pixie said:


> I don't think you have to go back any further than the 80s maybe the early 90s- the only way to advance was to stay deep in the closet.
> 
> I agree with the rest of your post tho.


Stay as deep in the closet as you want, people have gay-dar. Most of the time they know whether you tell them or not. 

In the 1980s, I worked for a wholesale liquor distributor. The gay bars were among the best accounts, we set up brand promotions in them regularly, etc. Nobody out of the 25 or so employees ever had anything unkind to say about them that I ever heard. Now if you wanted to climb the corporate ladder and be a big cheese at a big company in the 80s, yes, you better be discrete, but most businesses focus on actual business, in my life experience anyway. 

Also I seem to recall in the 80s Boy George was topping the charts, gay characters on Roseanne were a big hit into the 90s, etc. If you were gay, you were "cooler than thou" was the impression I got.


----------



## kuriakos

FeralFemale said:


> No, you compared, quite directly, being called something as distasteful as a satanist to being called gay, thereby inferring that being gay is as bad as being a satanist. In fact, it is more than an inference. You plainly stated that being called gay is a slander.
> 
> I am not comfortable with the level of homophobia in your statements. Why would it be so bad if Obama were gay?


A comparison between calling a person two different things is not the same as equating those two things. Picking out this particular person and twisting their words to accuse them of homophobia is extremely disingenuous, especially within the context of this thread. WR said nothing blatantly homophobic, he/she just used an analogy about derogatorily calling people something they are not, but many other people have said extremely homophobic things and I don't see you going after them.

One more thing. An inference is something done by the reader of a statement, not by the author. You inferred those things. WR did not.


----------



## JeffreyD

wr said:


> Since I didn't quote you, I don't know why you would think I was addressing your comment in any way so your response remains a bit odd to me.


Well, because it was exactly what i was talking about. So, it was just a general comment? 

"I find *titillating little comments about someone being gay because someone doesn't like their politics* to be very poor form."


----------



## wr

I honestly think that Feral Female and I had a misunderstanding based on how a comment ended up placed in a thread and I think her and I are pretty much on the same side of things but regardless of where she sits on the current topic, I am more than comfortable explaining myself and apologize for offending her. 

In the event, that my comment does get lost deep within this thread, I also sent her a pm to clarify my interpretation of her initial comment and my response. 

I confident enough in the point I made within the context I made it but I do not feel that everybody needs to jump on a nice lady who has been here for a member for a long time because of a misunderstanding.


----------



## kuriakos

I jumped in before I saw you had already responded, WR. I still think my point is valid, though. There are 20 pages of homophobic posts to attack if one is so inclined.


----------



## kasilofhome

Homophobic ....fear of homosexuals

I don't think fear is correct.


----------



## kuriakos

You may not fear homosexuals, but you act like you fear what will happen if they get equal treatment. I get that. I used to fear that too. I got over it.


----------



## Jolly

No, I think what many fear is when they get what they want - special treatment.

A new series on _The Federalist_:

http://thefederalist.com/2015/06/08/can-gays-and-christians-coexist-in-america-part-1/

http://thefederalist.com/2015/06/09/can-gays-and-christians-coexist-in-america-part-ii/


----------



## Jolly

And, speaking of the Pew Poll:

http://hotair.com/archives/2015/06/08/holdouts-blacks-oppose-gay-marriage-4151-in-new-pew-poll/


----------



## kasilofhome

I would use the word disgusted for myself. Since it is ok to use that word to describe a behavior.... .I find it tasteless and crude to flaunt sexual activity in public.. used to be hetero sleaze and we could and did complain at the clothes, movies and moral decay next it's even worse


----------



## kuriakos

You're free to fear or be disgusted by whatever you want, as trivial as it may be to me.


----------



## Jolly

kuriakos said:


> You're free to fear or be disgusted by whatever you want, as trivial as it may be to me.


In other words, you care not about the feelings of any here, except for those you agree with?

Or, did I misunderstand?


----------



## Jolly

Lastly, over 700 posts in two recent homosexual subject threads.

Anybody change their mind, yet?


----------



## kuriakos

Jolly said:


> In other words, you care not about the feelings of any here, except for those you agree with?
> 
> Or, did I misunderstand?


If that's what you took from it, yes you misunderstood by a wide margin.


----------



## Bearfootfarm

wr said:


> Since I didn't quote you, I don't know why you would think I was addressing your comment in any way so your response remains a bit odd to me.


I've learned that any random person who decides to be offended by any random remark automatically assumes it was directed at them personally, and will often accuse you of stalking them just for the purpose of making such remarks.


----------



## wr

Bearfootfarm said:


> I've learned that any random person who decides to be offended by any random remark automatically assumes it was directed at them personally, and will often accuse you of stalking them just for the purpose of making such remarks.


I think it was my comment about cat stir fry that did it


----------



## susieneddy

Jolly said:


> Or maybe I'm way out in front. :hobbyhors


In your opinion but not the rest of the worlds opinion. I really feel sorry for folks like you and the others whose post are so full of hate. Then again I guess that is what good so called Christian people do.


----------



## FeralFemale

wr said:


> I honestly think that Feral Female and I had a misunderstanding based on how a comment ended up placed in a thread and I think her and I are pretty much on the same side of things but regardless of where she sits on the current topic, I am more than comfortable explaining myself and apologize for offending her.
> 
> In the event, that my comment does get lost deep within this thread, I also sent her a pm to clarify my interpretation of her initial comment and my response.
> 
> I confident enough in the point I made within the context I made it but I do not feel that everybody needs to jump on a nice lady who has been here for a member for a long time because of a misunderstanding.


Yes I think we misunderstood each other. 

Though, since I tend to be a stubborn sort, I feel the need to say that if a conservative on this board had made the same analogy the liberals on the board would have never let them get away with it.

And yes we are on the same side of things. Not all conservatives oppose gay marriage yet that seems to be the assumption sometimes. In fact, I wholeheartedly support gay marriage. When two people marry they create a stable family and stable families are the bedrock of a stable society. And frankly, our society has been going down the tubes lately. And marriage is more than just a piece of paper. It truly transforms a loving relationship. I couldn't imagine never experiencing that with my husband. Plus, there's that there constitution thingy what I done studied in law school... 

And I apologize for my part in the misunderstanding.


----------



## wr

FeralFemale said:


> Yes I think we misunderstood each other.
> 
> Though, since I tend to be a stubborn sort, I feel the need to say that if a conservative on this board had made the same analogy the liberals on the board would have never let them get away with it.
> 
> And yes we are on the same side of things. Not all conservatives oppose gay marriage yet that seems to be the assumption sometimes. In fact, I wholeheartedly support gay marriage. When two people marry they create a stable family and stable families are the bedrock of a stable society. And frankly, our society has been going down the tubes lately. And marriage is more than just a piece of paper. It truly transforms a loving relationship. I couldn't imagine never experiencing that with my husband. Plus, there's that there constitution thingy what I done studied in law school...
> 
> And I apologize for my part in the misunderstanding.


The analogy only represents that feeling someone gets when they can't prove something they know isn't true. 

Being Canadian, I find these debates a bit funny because same sex marriages have been legal for a while now. 

Maybe it's a difference in our mindset or maybe it's just because it happened but we all kinda shrugged our shoulders and carried on with life so we skipped the phase the US is going through now and none of the dire predictions materialized.

I did forget to mention that it's great to see you back.


----------



## chamoisee

Jolly said:


> Lastly, over 700 posts in two recent homosexual subject threads.
> 
> Anybody change their mind, yet?


Yeah, I did. I used to be a rabid hater. It's true what they say about the most vehemently homophobic people being either closet cases or in denial. Some kind souls here on HT (well, it may have been Countryside at the time) helped show me sanity with their reasonable ways, and for that I will always be thankful. :nanner:


----------



## wr

MO_cows said:


> Stay as deep in the closet as you want, people have gay-dar. Most of the time they know whether you tell them or not.
> 
> In the 1980s, I worked for a wholesale liquor distributor. The gay bars were among the best accounts, we set up brand promotions in them regularly, etc. Nobody out of the 25 or so employees ever had anything unkind to say about them that I ever heard. Now if you wanted to climb the corporate ladder and be a big cheese at a big company in the 80s, yes, you better be discrete, but most businesses focus on actual business, in my life experience anyway.
> 
> Also I seem to recall in the 80s Boy George was topping the charts, gay characters on Roseanne were a big hit into the 90s, etc. If you were gay, you were "cooler than thou" was the impression I got.


I don't know about gay-dar being as accurate as one believes. 

Our town pharmacist is as effeminate as you can get and you'd swear the only thing missing when he entered a room was his feather boa and yet the man was a huge womanizer and his long suffering wife suffered put up with his numerous affairs with other women.

On the other hand, I have a friend who's a rodeo cowboy and rancher who is gay and there is nothing that would give him away. He's a jeans and wranglers kinda guy, has done some movie stunt work and at rodeos or in town, can usually be found with what I refer to as his fan club, which is a gaggle of women doing their very best to let him know they're available.


----------



## kasilofhome

Stereotyping


----------



## wr

kasilofhome said:


> Stereotyping



Mope, just pointing out that stereotyping doesn't always work.


----------



## Bearfootfarm

kasilofhome said:


> *Stereo*typing


Isn't that typing with two fingers?


----------



## Irish Pixie

MO_cows said:


> Stay as deep in the closet as you want, people have gay-dar. Most of the time they know whether you tell them or not.
> 
> In the 1980s, I worked for a wholesale liquor distributor. The gay bars were among the best accounts, we set up brand promotions in them regularly, etc. Nobody out of the 25 or so employees ever had anything unkind to say about them that I ever heard. Now if you wanted to climb the corporate ladder and be a big cheese at a big company in the 80s, yes, you better be discrete, but most businesses focus on actual business, in my life experience anyway.
> 
> Also I seem to recall in the 80s Boy George was topping the charts, gay characters on Roseanne were a big hit into the 90s, etc. If you were gay, you were "cooler than thou" was the impression I got.


Just a minor disagreement, and in your area you may be correct, but in my experience it wasn't safe (career wise) until the mid 90s in most areas, and it's still not a good thing in other some small areas now. It's still not safe to be gay at night in some areas especially when you're alone. 

It wasn't safe to be gay in the military even after 1993, and no one could be openly gay until 2011. 

The entertainment industry's goal is to get people to watch/buy and titillating material did that quite well.


----------



## mmoetc

kasilofhome said:


> So sorry that I did really answer the question you did ask.. twisting reality does not change reality


And neither does misreading things. I didn't ask about the mechanism for stepping into your private affairs. Neither did the case in question. The warrant was never challenged. The arrest based on a sex act between consenting adults in a private residence was. The question to you was, and is, should you be subject to the same arrest? Who gets to decide which sex acts are "acceptable" and why should a sex act between one couple be illegal and the same act between another couple be legal?

I think its great you've never had a warrant served on your residence. Neither have I. I'm happy to know that my sex life, or the presumption of it, won't become the probable cause for one being issued.


----------



## mmoetc

Jolly said:


> You used about the most liberal clerical person you could find, whose theology is probably not as good as my Sheltie's.
> 
> If you want to argue Bible, don't give me some half-baked bozo's musings. Give me chapter and verse why you think what you think, and I'll be glad to answer.


As I said I wasn't arguing the bible. I just pointed out that not all members of your own broad religion can agree on the meaning of the words in your holiest book. I see no good rationale for basing the laws of this country on the beliefs of a portion of the believers in any religion. I'd feel no more comfortable, probably even less so, if your religion was in total agreement, but it's not. Believe what you wish about gays. I can't change that. Advocate forcing those beliefs on me and others through legal means, I'll fight back.


----------



## beowoulf90

Irish Pixie said:


> Did you miss that it's my opinion? It's infinitely more credible than the bat guano crazy that is being posted on this thread.



I beg your pardon..

I didn't realize that your opinion had more credibility than others.
Is that because you believe in the destruction of America and forcing Socialism on others?

Please explain why your opinion carries more weight. 
Did I miss something else, such as you were installed as benevolent dictator or something?

Oh and on a side note; I'll take that bat guano every time..
It's a good source of niter and as such I'll never run out of powder. Thus enabling me to continue fighting for the Constitution and those who wish to destroy it..


----------



## Jolly

mmoetc said:


> As I said I wasn't arguing the bible. I just pointed out that not all members of your own broad religion can agree on the meaning of the words in your holiest book. I see no good rationale for basing the laws of this country on the beliefs of a portion of the believers in any religion. I'd feel no more comfortable, probably even less so, if your religion was in total agreement, but it's not. Believe what you wish about gays. I can't change that. Advocate forcing those beliefs on me and others through legal means, I'll fight back.


The Bible has always warned about false prophets. So why quote one, when trying to make a point? Although I'm not Catholic, you might want to check out the pope's recent statements on marriage.

Secondly, you are forcing your beliefs on me, therefore I'm supposed to lay back and think of England?


----------



## Irish Pixie

beowoulf90 said:


> I beg your pardon..
> 
> I didn't realize that your opinion had more credibility than others.
> Is that because you believe in the destruction of America and forcing Socialism on others?
> 
> Please explain why your opinion carries more weight.
> Did I miss something else, such as you were installed as benevolent dictator or something?
> 
> Oh and on a side note; I'll take that bat guano every time..
> It's a good source of niter and as such I'll never run out of powder. Thus enabling me to continue fighting for the Constitution and those who wish to destroy it..


I never said it did, only that I can have one that differs from yours. Have a lovely day.


----------



## Jolly

susieneddy said:


> In your opinion but not the rest of the worlds opinion. I really feel sorry for folks like you and the others whose post are so full of hate. Then again I guess that is what good so called Christian people do.


Nah, go ahead and call me a Breeder, and spit when you do it.

Then, if you can think of one more vile term for people you don't like, you'll have a trifecta! :rock:


----------



## Jolly

And back to ol' Bruce:


----------



## Irish Pixie

susieneddy said:


> In your opinion but not the rest of the worlds opinion. I really feel sorry for folks like you and the others whose post are so full of hate. Then again I guess that is what good so called Christian people do.





Jolly said:


> Nah, go ahead and call me a Breeder, and spit when you do it.
> 
> Then, if you can think of one more vile term for people you don't like, you'll have a trifecta! :rock:


Where did susieneddy call you a name? I must have missed it, can you point it out please? Or were you just putting words in someone's mouth as usual?


----------



## mmoetc

Jolly said:


> The Bible has always warned about false prophets. So why quote one, when trying to make a point? Although I'm not Catholic, you might want to check out the pope's recent statements on marriage.
> 
> Secondly, you are forcing your beliefs on me, therefore I'm supposed to lay back and think of England?


How am I to judge who is the false prophet when I don't believe in your prophets? She might say the same of you. I'm not really interested in refereeing or in any other way being caught up in your continuing internecine struggle. 

How am I forcing any belief on you? I am not saying you have to have gay sex. I'm not saying you have to marry someone you don't wish to. I'm not saying you can't express whatever disgust you have towards gays. I'm just saying that the same laws that apply to you should apply to them. You're free to do whatever you wish with another consenting adult in private. So should they be. You're free to marry the consenting adult of your choice. So should they be. You're free to walk into a bakery and buy a cake. So should they be. Your free to live your life as openly, or privately, as you wish. So should they be.


----------



## Irish Pixie

Jolly said:


> And back to ol' Bruce


:snip photo:

I don't think anyone this thread has ever said that the military are any less brave than Caitlyn Jenner. If so, could you point that out as well? Unless you were just provoking?


----------



## HDRider

chamoisee said:


> I happen to think Jesus was gay. Seriously! He never married, in a time when all rabbis were expected to marry. He had interesting things to say about eunuchs. He was surrounded by 12 men, who he said had to love him more than their wives and family. They competed for his love and attention, and were jealous of John the beloved, his favorite. I'm of the opinion that the reason Judas gave that kiss of betrayal was because he was romantically involved and felt slighted...which also explains his sudden change of heart and the fact that he killed himself afterwards. That was an act of reckless passion.


I'll being saying a special prayer for you dear.


----------



## susieneddy

Jolly said:


> Nah, go ahead and call me a Breeder, and spit when you do it.
> 
> Then, if you can think of one more vile term for people you don't like, you'll have a trifecta! :rock:


I called you a name?? Where at in my post did I do that?. 
So you believe calling a person a hater is a vile term? I'm sure no Christian has ever called someone a hater :shrug: Who said I didn't like you. Just because we disagree doesn't mean I dislike you.

See there goes that spin again. :stars:


----------



## poppy

HDRider said:


> I'll being saying a special prayer for you dear.


Ain't it amazing how far perverted minds will go in order to justify their choices?


----------



## kasilofhome

mmoetc said:


> As I said I wasn't arguing the bible. I just pointed out that not all members of your own broad religion can agree on the meaning of the words in your holiest book. I see no good rationale for basing the laws of this country on the beliefs of a portion of the believers in any religion. I'd feel no more comfortable, probably even less so, if your religion was in total agreement, but it's not. Believe what you wish about gays. I can't change that. Advocate forcing those beliefs on me and others through legal means, I'll fight back.


What if your sex life was personal and private. Not a public issue because you had a personal maybe emotional, mental rational need to seek validation and acceptance because you have a personal conflict with your choices.

What if you liked yourself abit more that your sexuality did not need to be the focal point of who you are. What if you didn't need to a fad.


----------



## mmoetc

kasilofhome said:


> What if your sex life was person and private. Not a public issue because you had a personal maybe emotional, mental rational need to seek validation and acceptance because you have a personal conflict with your choices.
> 
> What if you liked yourself abit more that your sexuality did not need to be the focal point of who you are. What if you didn't need to a fad.


What makes it public? Are all gay couples walking down the street holding hands seeking validation and acceptance? Do they all hate themselves so much and have such personal conflicts? Or are they just like most of the heterosexual coup&#322;es walking down the same street holding hands? People who just really like, and maybe even love, the person who's hand they're holding? Maybe trying to look at them as people, not trying to imagine what they're doing in private, might help.


----------



## Nevada

kasilofhome said:


> What if your sex life was person and private. Not a public issue because you had a personal maybe emotional, mental rational need to seek validation and acceptance because you have a personal conflict with your choices.
> 
> What if you liked yourself abit more that your sexuality did not need to be the focal point of who you are. What if you didn't need to a fad.


You know that Jenner stands to make millions off of this, don't you?


----------



## kasilofhome

wr said:


> Mope, just pointing out that stereotyping doesn't always work.


You really thought that folk believe the stereotyping... it is humour but far from reality that even in humor the stereotyping ended.

My served on grand jury. 
One of the cases was a nun and and auto accident. 
She was ask if having a priest sitting in the back of the court would influence her.

She shot back without .... as long as he doesn't have a small boy on his lap.

See the shift news events change stereotypes. It's really comical. Life is so political correct comics are having a hard time.... no longer can we laugh at ourselves or friends.


----------



## kasilofhome

Nevada said:


> You know that Jenner stands to make millions off of this, don't you?


Yes,you have enlightened us of the value of money to you.


----------



## kasilofhome

mmoetc said:


> What makes it public? Are all gay couples walking down the street holding hands seeking validation and acceptance? Do they all hate themselves so much and have such personal conflicts? Or are they just like most of the heterosexual coup&#322;es walking down the same street holding hands? People who just really like, and maybe even love, the person who's hand they're holding? Maybe trying to look at them as people, not trying to imagine what they're doing in private, might help.


Your posting is kinda public.
You are so focus on homosexual behavior... I never excluded heterosexual folks who thrust their sex lives to center stage but in your mind..... it's all about homosexuals.


----------



## kasilofhome

susieneddy said:


> In your opinion but not the rest of the worlds opinion. I really feel sorry for folks like you and the others whose post are so full of hate. Then again I guess that is what good so called Christian people do.


Yes, discernment.... what you call hate, is a requirement to know good from evil.
It like why the government is involved labeling food containers. And now fast food. To educate people. I have a son and many that I care personally I do not wish them to get involved with criminal behavior,drugs,deviant life choices..... out of love.

I am not ashamed when labeled a hater.... I first consider the source and rationale behind why they feel that way.


----------



## mmoetc

kasilofhome said:


> Your posting is kinda public.
> You are so focus on homosexual behavior... I never excluded heterosexual folks who thrust their sex lives to center stage but in your mind..... it's all about homosexuals.


And what assumptions might you make about my public postings? I don't see hand holding in public as homosexual behavior. I see it as an appropriate public display of affection for those engaging in it. I extrapolate no further behaviors. Your frequent likes of posts describing only sexual acts between same sex couples as deviant and perversions might speak differently about who you've singled out. I'm not really fond of a 70 year old Mick Jagger strutting around flaunting his sexuality but I'm not working to deny his right to do so. 

Now I'll ask again, why does my advocacy draw such ire when your young lawyers drew such praise?


----------



## kasilofhome

Well, point out treads that focus on heterosexuals sex lives research my likes and dislikes of sleazy heterosexuals.



Kardashian.... cesspool


----------



## Jolly

Irish Pixie said:


> Where did susieneddy call you a name? I must have missed it, can you point it out please? Or were you just putting words in someone's mouth as usual?


A synonym of "so full of hate" = hater.


----------



## Jolly

mmoetc said:


> How am I to judge who is the false prophet when I don't believe in your prophets? She might say the same of you. I'm not really interested in refereeing or in any other way being caught up in your continuing internecine struggle.
> 
> How am I forcing any belief on you? I am not saying you have to have gay sex. I'm not saying you have to marry someone you don't wish to. I'm not saying you can't express whatever disgust you have towards gays. I'm just saying that the same laws that apply to you should apply to them. You're free to do whatever you wish with another consenting adult in private. So should they be. You're free to marry the consenting adult of your choice. So should they be. You're free to walk into a bakery and buy a cake. So should they be. Your free to live your life as openly, or privately, as you wish. So should they be.


You're free to marry right now. It just has to be someone of the opposite sex. If that isn't what you want, don't get married.

And as far walking in a bakery and buying a cake, I've already said in this thread I think a sole proprietor should have the right to refuse service. And that includes me. And you. And anybody else he doesn't want to do business with.


----------



## painterswife

Jolly said:


> You're free to marry right now. It just has to be someone of the opposite sex. If that isn't what you want, don't get married.


Is that what was told couples of different races back when it was against the law? They were free to marry but only the right color?


----------



## Jolly

Irish Pixie said:


> :snip photo:
> 
> I don't think anyone this thread has ever said that the military are any less brave than Caitlyn Jenner. If so, could you point that out as well? Unless you were just provoking?


ESPN (a subsidiary of Disney, a very gay friendly company) has already publicly proclaimed Mr. Jenner as braver than a cancer-stricken collegiate basketball player, who created a foundation to help other teenage cancer patients, and worked towards the goals of that foundation until she died her freshman year.

On that issue, it seems Bob Costas - no flaming liberal, he - agrees with me:

http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/m...rd-exploitation-play-costas-article-1.2252565

The pic that I provided, is just more evidence of gay-centric reporting, where a transgendered guy who can't decide which sex to be, leads the national narrative and feeds the MSM mantra of accomodation.

There are a lot of things more important in this society, than the spectacle of some dude with a boob job and a face lift, lounging around in women's lingerie.


----------



## mmoetc

Jolly said:


> You're free to marry right now. It just has to be someone of the opposite sex. If that isn't what you want, don't get married.
> 
> And as far walking in a bakery and buying a cake, I've already said in this thread I think a sole proprietor should have the right to refuse service. And that includes me. And you. And anybody else he doesn't want to do business with.


An interesting definition of free. 

That sole proprietor is free to serve who he wishes. He's also free to pay the penalties.


----------



## Jolly

painterswife said:


> Is that what was told couples of different races back when it was against the law? They were free to marry but only the right color?


You do know there has never been a Federal miscegenation law, don't you?


----------



## beowoulf90

Irish Pixie said:


> I never said it did, only that I can have one that differs from yours. Have a lovely day.



I plan on it, thank you. May you also have a lovely day.


----------



## painterswife

Jolly said:


> You do know there has never been a Federal miscegenation law, don't you?


Did I say there was?


----------



## Jolly

mmoetc said:


> An interesting definition of free.
> 
> That sole proprietor is free to serve who he wishes. He's also free to pay the penalties.


That's fine.

Now, what is the appropriate penalty? To me, the lose of business is a penalty. If the friends of the denied wish to not use the baker, that's fine, too. If the people denied, wish to start a competing bakery, whoopee!

And that's where it ends. There should be no draconian intervention of the State, for such a simple problem. Remember, the boots you use to walk on people today, may be the boots you have to kiss tomorrow.


----------



## Jolly

painterswife said:


> Did I say there was?


Isn't that much of what you've been talking about this entire thread? Gay rights and marriage?


----------



## painterswife

Jolly said:


> Isn't that much of what you've been talking about this entire thread? Gay rights and marriage?


Yes, I have been talking about gay rights and marriage. No where did I say there was a federal miscegenation law. That is what you implied and I responded to.


----------



## Irish Pixie

Jolly said:


> ESPN (a subsidiary of Disney, a very gay friendly company) has already publicly proclaimed Mr. Jenner as braver than a cancer-stricken collegiate basketball player, who created a foundation to help other teenage cancer patients, and worked towards the goals of that foundation until she died her freshman year.


:snip rhetoric:

Does ESPN (a subsidiary of Disney, a very gay friendly company) post here? And again, where did anyone that actually posts here say anything of the sort?


----------



## Jolly

painterswife said:


> Yes, I have been talking about gay rights and marriage. No where did I say there was a federal miscegenation law. That is what you implied and I responded to.


 You said people of different races could not marry.

That blanket statement is untrue. For much of the history of the country, miscgenation laws did not even exist in all of the slave states. Those laws have never existed in all states. Therefore, a mechanism did exist.

The discussion about gay marriage currently revolves around whether the Constitution permits it, or whether it is a state issue. There is no Federal law allowing gay marriage in all states, but there are some states who do allow it. Therefore, a mechanism does exist.


----------



## Jolly

Irish Pixie said:


> :snip rhetoric:
> 
> Does ESPN (a subsidiary of Disney, a very gay friendly company) post here? And again, where did anyone that actually posts here say anything of the sort?


I don't know. Do you work for Disney? Are you supportive of their views?


----------



## Irish Pixie

Jolly said:


> A synonym of "so full of hate" = hater.


No, actually she didn't. "I really feel sorry for folks like you and the others whose post are so full of hate." She said your *posts* are full of hate." There is no personal name calling.


----------



## Irish Pixie

Jolly said:


> I don't know. Do you work for Disney? Are you supportive of their views?


Nope, don't work for Disney. I support some of their views, not others. What's your point?


----------



## Irish Pixie

Jolly said:


> You said people of different races could not marry.
> 
> That blanket statement is untrue. For much of the history of the country, miscgenation laws did not even exist in all of the slave states. Those laws have never existed in all states. Therefore, a mechanism did exist.
> 
> The discussion about gay marriage currently revolves around whether the Constitution permits it, or whether it is a state issue. There is no Federal law allowing gay marriage in all states, but there are some states who do allow it. Therefore, a mechanism does exist.


Any local or state government that supported Jim Crow laws had regulations on the books against interracial marriage. I don't believe there were federal laws, but I don't think Painterswife ever said there were. 

http://www.ferris.edu/jimcrow/links/misclink/examples/homepage.htm


----------



## painterswife

Jolly said:


> You said people of different races could not marry.
> 
> That blanket statement is untrue. For much of the history of the country, miscgenation laws did not even exist in all of the slave states. Those laws have never existed in all states. Therefore, a mechanism did exist.
> 
> The discussion about gay marriage currently revolves around whether the Constitution permits it, or whether it is a state issue. There is no Federal law allowing gay marriage in all states, but there are some states who do allow it. Therefore, a mechanism does exist.


I said nothing about laws. I offered an example. You ran with and made it more than what I said.


----------



## Jolly

Irish Pixie said:


> No, actually she didn't. "I really feel sorry for folks like you and the others whose post are so full of hate." She said your *posts* are full of hate." There is no personal name calling.


A difference without distinction, don't you think?


----------



## Jolly

Irish Pixie said:


> Nope, don't work for Disney. I support some of their views, not others. What's your point?


Do you not think soldiers on the battlefield, or more specifically, a dying teenager trying to help other sufferers is more worthy of acknowledgment for courage than Mr. Jenner?


----------



## Irish Pixie

Jolly said:


> A difference without distinction, don't you think?


Nope. I think it's the line between getting personally insulting and not.


----------



## Jolly

painterswife said:


> I said nothing about laws. I offered an example. You ran with and made it more than what I said.


No, you made a blanket statement which was untrue.

I have pointed out your error.


----------



## Jolly

Irish Pixie said:


> Nope. I think it's the line between getting personally insulting and not.


No ma'am. When you describe someone's views as hateful or full of hate, that is the same thing as labeling a person as hateful.

Man does not exist without his mind.


----------



## Irish Pixie

Jolly said:


> Do you not think soldiers on the battlefield, or more specifically, a dying teenager trying to help other sufferers is more worthy of acknowledgment for courage than Mr. Jenner?


I didn't say it. I didn't say anything of the sort. I will say that there are different kinds of courage, and that Ms. Jenner was courageous for finally being the person she was meant to be. 

As courageous as a soldier or a dying teen? Maybe not, but courageous never the less.


----------



## Jolly

Irish Pixie said:


> Any local or state government that supported Jim Crow laws had regulations on the books against interracial marriage. I don't believe there were federal laws, but I don't think Painterswife ever said there were.
> 
> http://www.ferris.edu/jimcrow/links/misclink/examples/homepage.htm


Look it up, there were no Federal Laws. Nor did Jim Crow exist at all times throughout the South.

What the lady said was that couples of different races could not marry.


----------



## Irish Pixie

Jolly said:


> No ma'am. When you describe someone's views as hateful or full of hate, that is the same thing as labeling a person as hateful.


And that's your opinion and you're welcome to it. Just don't try to tell me it's mine as well.


----------



## Jolly

Irish Pixie said:


> I didn't say it. I didn't say anything of the sort. I will say that there are different kinds of courage, and that Ms. Jenner was courageous for finally being the person she was meant to be.
> 
> As courageous as a soldier or a dying teen? Maybe not, but courageous never the less.


When you show me Mr. Jenner did not receive any monetary benefit from his cover shoot, I might concede your last point.


----------



## Irish Pixie

Jolly said:


> Look it up, there were no Federal Laws. Nor did Jim Crow exist at all times throughout the South.
> 
> What the lady said was that couples of different races could not marry.


Sigh. They couldn't in any area under Jim Crow laws. I clearly stated in my post that I don't believe there were federal laws in place to forbid interracial marriage.


----------



## Jolly

Irish Pixie said:


> And that's your opinion and you're welcome to it. Just don't try to tell me it's mine as well.


So, what do you call a person with hateful views?


----------



## Irish Pixie

Jolly said:


> When you show me Mr. Jenner did not receive any monetary benefit from his cover shoot, I might concede your last point.


No you wouldn't, be honest.  

I gave my opinion, I'm not going to get into a nit picking contest with you.


----------



## Jolly

Irish Pixie said:


> Sigh. They couldn't in any area under Jim Crow laws. I clearly stated in my post that I don't believe there were federal laws in place to forbid interracial marriage.


Thank you for making my point.

The initial statement was that people of two races could not marry. "Could not" is a fairly concise term, is it not? 

If I have shown there were places where that could have taken place, it took place.

Or are you saying that Fredrick Douglas was not married to a white woman? That's gonna come as a shock to most historians...


----------



## Irish Pixie

Jolly said:


> Thank you for making my point.
> 
> The initial statement was that people of two races could not marry. "Could not" is a fairly concise term, is it not?
> 
> If I have shown there were places where that could have taken place, it took place.
> 
> Or are you saying that Fredrick Douglas was not married to a white woman? That's gonna come as a shock to most historians...


Shrug. I don't see it but you're welcome. 

I'll bet where ever Mr. Douglas married his white wife there were no Jim Crow laws? Am I right?


----------



## susieneddy

Irish Pixie said:


> No, actually she didn't. "I really feel sorry for folks like you and the others whose post are so full of hate." She said your *posts* are full of hate." There is no personal name calling.


some people can't see the forest for the trees :drum:


----------



## susieneddy

Jolly said:


> A synonym of "so full of hate" = hater.


I didn't find that but I found these

Synonyms for full of hate
adj: resentful
disaffected, irritated, rancorous, bitter, sore, spiteful

so which should I select if I want to call you one :grin:


----------



## kuriakos

painterswife said:


> Is that what was told couples of different races back when it was against the law? They were free to marry but only the right color?


I believe this is the "initial statement" that Jolly keeps referring to. If so, it appears to not be a statement at all. It is a question about when it was against the law to marry someone of another race. Perhaps it should be "when and where it was against the law" but still stands just fine the way it is.


----------



## Jolly

kuriakos said:


> I believe this is the "initial statement" that Jolly keeps referring to. If so, it appears to not be a statement at all. It is a question about when it was against the law to marry someone of another race. Perhaps it should be "when and where it was against the law" but still stands just fine the way it is.


Context is everything.

In a discussion about LGBT people and their place in society, gay rights and gay marriage, much of what has been discussed on this thread and previously as it pertains to gay marriage, refers to Federal law and not state law. In other words, an absolute right, applicable across all the states.

In the aforementioned statement, there is a presupposition contained therein, that interracial marriage was not allowed.

Even a shallow review of history shows this not to be true.


----------



## painterswife

Jolly said:


> Context is everything.
> 
> In a discussion about LGBT people and their place in society, gay rights and gay marriage, much of what has been discussed on this thread and previously as it pertains to gay marriage, refers to Federal law and not state law. In other words, an absolute right, applicable across all the states.
> 
> In the aforementioned statement, there is a presupposition contained therein, that interracial marriage was not allowed.
> 
> Even a shallow review of history shows this not to be true.


There were laws against interracial marriages. Correct?

There are laws against gay marriage right now correct? State laws, correct?

How do you get that I said there were or were not Federal laws from my posts?


----------



## Jolly

painterswife said:


> There were laws against interracial marriages. Correct?
> 
> There are laws against gay marriage right now correct? State laws, correct?
> 
> How do you get that I said there were or were not Federal laws from my posts?


Ma'am, you're past the point of nit-picking. You are now working so closely on every jot and every tittle, in order to buttress an inarguable point, that it is no longer productive to argue that point with you. If you wish to single out individual laws, there are so many overlapping municipal, county, and state laws as to make it pretty easy to find a law that provides a penalty for almost anything, if you focus on only one law.

Besides, I'm sure you can do without my hateful views. And I have a garden and new chicks to worry with.

Good day.


----------



## painterswife

Jolly said:


> Ma'am, you're past the point of nit-picking. You are now working so closely on every jot and every tittle, in order to buttress an inarguable point, that it is no longer productive to argue that point with you. If you wish to single out individual laws, there are so many overlapping municipal, county, and state laws as to make it pretty easy to find a law that provides a penalty for almost anything, if you focus on only one law.
> 
> Besides, I'm sure you can do without my hateful views. And I have a garden and new chicks to worry with.
> 
> Good day.


You were the one trying to put meanings to my words that were not there.


----------



## HDRider

mmoetc said:


> What makes it public? Are all gay couples walking down the street holding hands seeking validation and acceptance? Do they all hate themselves so much and have such personal conflicts? Or are they just like most of the heterosexual coup&#322;es walking down the same street holding hands? People who just really like, and maybe even love, the person who's hand they're holding? Maybe trying to look at them as people, not trying to imagine what they're doing in private, might help.


----------



## fordy

............Bless their little hearts.........that closet may not have been as bad as they thought ! , fordy:runforhills:


----------



## susieneddy

HDRider said:


>


a selfie with you and your friend :nanner:


----------



## Jolly

Better than the photos of the public homosexual couplings at Disneyworld.

Word of warning: Don't bring the kids to Disneyworld on Gay Day. Not that all of the gays there are engaged in lewd acts and public sex - they aren't. But there have been a few problems in the past, and some things just can't be unseen...


----------



## kasilofhome

Well, 3 years ago at the prom two heterosexuals were copulateing on the dance floor and the principal and chaperones had to break thru the dance crowd that had encircled the couple. 

Everyone was shocked...I only learned this wonderful fact because I was chaperoning and learning that we had to mingle thru out the he dancefloor I stupidity ask why it would take eight parents on that task. Since the info came from the principal who claim it to have Been the luck one to be the first on that scene... I accepted it as a fact. 

Public sex display is quite unacceptable. ...what ever combo.


----------



## Irish Pixie

I'll bet hetro couples having public sex never ever happens... I do believe I'd call that inappropriate behavior no matter the sexual orientation of the people involved, but that's just me.


----------



## HDRider

susieneddy said:


> a selfie with you and your friend :nanner:


Maybe you'd like another... Those with a little less money than Brucie.


----------



## Bearfootfarm

Jolly said:


> You said people of *different races could not marry*.
> 
> *That blanket statement is untrue*.
> 
> For much of the history of the country, *miscgenation laws did not even exist* in all of the slave states.
> 
> Those laws have never existed in all states. Therefore, a mechanism did exist.
> 
> The discussion about gay marriage currently revolves around whether the Constitution permits it, or whether it is a state issue. There is no Federal law allowing gay marriage in all states, but there are some states who do allow it. Therefore, a mechanism does exist.


You should pontificate less and research more to avoid looking so grossly uninformed

The only thing you got correct above was the laws didn't exist in *all *states:



> Laws banning "race-mixing" were enforced in certain North American jurisdictions from 1691[102] until 1967











http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marriage#/media/File:US_miscegenation.svg



> All these laws primarily banned marriage between persons of different racially or ethnically defined groups, which was termed "amalgamation" or "miscegenation" in the U.S.





> In the United States, laws in some but not all of the states prohibited the marriage of whites and blacks, and in many states also the intermarriage of whites with Native Americans or Asians.[103]
> 
> In the U.S., such laws were known as anti-miscegenation laws. From 1913 until 1948, 30 out of the then 48 states enforced such laws.[104]
> 
> Although an "Anti-Miscegenation Amendment" to the United States Constitution was proposed in 1871, in 1912&#8211;1913, and in 1928,[105][106] no nationwide law against racially mixed marriages was ever enacted.
> 
> In 1967, the United States Supreme Court unanimously ruled in Loving v. Virginia that anti-miscegenation laws are unconstitutional.
> 
> With this ruling, these laws were no longer in effect in the remaining 16 states that still had them.


----------



## Irish Pixie

They may not be transgender like Caitlyn, they could be just cross dressers. Huge difference. 



HDRider said:


> Maybe you'd like another... Those with a little less money than Brucie.


----------



## mmoetc

Jolly said:


> Better than the photos of the public homosexual couplings at Disneyworld.
> 
> Word of warning: Don't bring the kids to Disneyworld on Gay Day. Not that all of the gays there are engaged in lewd acts and public sex - they aren't. But there have been a few problems in the past, and some things just can't be unseen...


You might wish to stay off public beaches in florida. http://m.nydailynews.com/news/national/florida-couple-convicted-sex-beach-article-1.2210838. Bad behavior has no gender.

Eta- what is it about florida?


----------



## mmoetc

Jolly said:


> That's fine.
> 
> Now, what is the appropriate penalty? To me, the lose of business is a penalty. If the friends of the denied wish to not use the baker, that's fine, too. If the people denied, wish to start a competing bakery, whoopee!
> 
> And that's where it ends. There should be no draconian intervention of the State, for such a simple problem. Remember, the boots you use to walk on people today, may be the boots you have to kiss tomorrow.


And I should be free to walk into any store open to the public and buy those boots. As should you. Since there are no federal laws listing gays as a protected class the bakers could have simply moved their business to a jurisdiction more welcoming to their views. There are a couple of other ways they could have structured their business to allow them to choose more carefully who they sold cakes to. That's freedom.

You keep separating sole proprietorships. Why not family partnerships? Even closely held corporations all of whose owners share a religion? Even those companies listed on the major stock exchanges have freedom of speech and can exercise it, why not the freedom to practice religion also? Before you start using those boots to kick others you might think about who might kick back.


----------



## poppy

Irish Pixie said:


> They may not be transgender like Caitlyn, they could be just cross dressers. Huge difference.


Not really a huge difference. The category of "Weirdos" covers a broad spectrum.


----------



## Irish Pixie

I'm beginning to think that the amount of hate someone carries for homosexuality as a measure of latent gayness is really true, but that's just me. If one uses this thread as a measuring stick there are a ton of closeted gays on this forum.


----------



## painterswife

Irish Pixie said:


> I'm beginning to think that the amount of hate someone carries for homosexuality as a measure of latent gayness is really true, but that's just me. If one uses this thread as a measuring stick there are a ton of closeted gays on this forum.


You notice that so many times pastors, reverends or persons in positions of power in the church that are adamantly against homosexuality are caught in compromising positions. Another interesting point. Those that yell the loudest.


----------



## mmoetc

poppy said:


> Not really a huge difference. The category of "Weirdos" covers a broad spectrum.


At least we're down to weirdos, not deviants or perverts. Progress is being made.


----------



## HDRider

Irish Pixie said:


> I'm beginning to think that the amount of hate someone carries for homosexuality as a measure of latent gayness is really true, but that's just me. If one uses this thread as a measuring stick there are a ton of closeted gays on this forum.


Other than you, who has used the word hate?


----------



## fordy

Irish Pixie said:


> I'm beginning to think that the amount of hate someone carries for homosexuality as a measure of latent gayness is really true, but that's just me. If one uses this thread as a measuring stick there are a ton of closeted gays on this forum.


 
...............Applying one adjective.........hate..... to define the attitudes , opinion's and feelings of the many respondents in this thread , who , you and others disagree with is just wrong ! As for me , my adjective would be Disgust , Dislike , etc . I accept people the way they are , but I don't want their overt sexuality thrown in my face . , fordy


----------



## oneraddad

painterswife said:


> You notice that so many times pastors, reverends or persons in positions of power in the church that are adamantly against homosexuality are caught in compromising positions. Another interesting point. Those that yell the loudest.




I always find it interesting when someone try's to insult someone for being gay, like there's something wrong with it ?


----------



## painterswife

oneraddad said:


> I always find it interesting when someone try's to insult someone for being gay, like there's something wrong with it ?


I don't consider being homosexual an insult. I do think putting down other homosexuals while hiding in the closet hypocrisy.


----------



## no really

So now personal attacks are allowed? Gotta pop some corn and watch the show.:rock:


----------



## susieneddy

Irish Pixie said:


> They may not be transgender like Caitlyn, they could be just cross dressers. Huge difference.


they guy with the red hair looks like a photoshop job


----------



## susieneddy

poppy said:


> Not really a huge difference. The category of "Weirdos" covers a broad spectrum.


A friend of mine does the sound for a band. That band had a gig at one of the at one of the Social Clubs in Nashville. He has seen a lot while traveling around the country with bands for 20-30 yrs. He said what he saw there was things he had never seen before. They band and crew were told that no pictures could be taken to protect the clients. I can't go into detail but lets just say those folks were into it all. He did say he recognized a few prominent people (Republicans and Democrats) were there participating in the fun. Man/woman, man/man, woman/woman, 2 men/1 woman, 2 women/1 man and groups

It takes all types and you never know when one could be your neighbor, politician, clergy, police....etc


----------



## Jolly

> You should pontificate less and research more to avoid looking so grossly uninformed


And you should work on your reading comprehension skills.

Your own research (even through Wiki, the portal of all truth :boring proves exactly what I said.

Next.


----------



## Jolly

mmoetc said:


> And I should be free to walk into any store open to the public and buy those boots. As should you. Since there are no federal laws listing gays as a protected class the bakers could have simply moved their business to a jurisdiction more welcoming to their views. There are a couple of other ways they could have structured their business to allow them to choose more carefully who they sold cakes to. That's freedom.
> 
> You keep separating sole proprietorships. Why not family partnerships? Even closely held corporations all of whose owners share a religion? Even those companies listed on the major stock exchanges have freedom of speech and can exercise it, why not the freedom to practice religion also? Before you start using those boots to kick others you might think about who might kick back.


I mentioned sole proprietorships, mostly for clarity. The line is actually drawn if the business has publicly traded stock. At that point, you lose ironclad control over who you serve.


----------



## Jolly

painterswife said:


> You notice that so many times pastors, reverends or persons in positions of power in the church that are adamantly against homosexuality are caught in compromising positions. Another interesting point. Those that yell the loudest.


Sometimes they are. Most of the time, they are not.

Or does aberration represent normalcy?


----------



## Jolly

HDRider said:


> Other than you, who has used the word hate?


It has to do with demonizing your opponent.

I seriously doubt most people know what it is to be hated. Not true hate.


----------



## chamoisee

kasilofhome said:


> What if your sex life was personal and private. Not a public issue because you had a personal maybe emotional, mental rational need to seek validation and acceptance because you have a personal conflict with your choices.
> 
> What if you liked yourself abit more that your sexuality did not need to be the focal point of who you are. What if you didn't need to a fad.


NO. WE DON'T HAVE TO LIVE IN THE CLOSET TO MAKE *YOU* HAPPY. 

You don't have to hide who you love. 

You don't have to hide that you're straight, or be afraid that someone might find out. 

Your sexuality and orientation gets advertised every single day that you interact with other people, and if someone made a mistake and assumed you were gay, you'd be deeply offended. 

You don't have any idea what you're asking of people when you ask them to live in the closet, and you certainly wouldn't be willing to put up with it yourself. 

We are out of the closet, and we are STAYING out, whether you like it or not!


----------



## painterswife

chamoisee said:


> NO. WE DON'T HAVE TO LIVE IN THE CLOSET TO MAKE *YOU* HAPPY.
> 
> You don't have to hide who you love.
> 
> You don't have to hide that you're straight, or be afraid that someone might find out.
> 
> Your sexuality and orientation gets advertised every single day that you interact with other people, and if someone made a mistake and assumed you were gay, you'd be deeply offended.
> 
> You don't have any idea what you're asking of people when you ask them to live in the closet, and you certainly wouldn't be willing to put up with it yourself.
> 
> We are out of the closet, and we are STAYING out, whether you like it or not!


They sure talk alot about wanting to live in a free country but I guess they want it only free for some. Great Post.


----------



## mmoetc

Jolly said:


> I mentioned sole proprietorships, mostly for clarity. The line is actually drawn if the business has publicly traded stock. At that point, you lose ironclad control over who you serve.


Is this your line or some legal line I'm unaware of. Hobby Lobby isn't a sole proprietorship yet it was recently allowed to follow its religous convictions. Publicly traded companies can donate unlimited funds to SuperPACs exerting their free speech rights. What of the array of business entities that lie between sole proprietorship and publicly traded? Just as publicly traded companies can be influence by their stockholders to act in socially responsible ways, couldn't they( as unlikely as it seems) be influenced by those same stockholders to discriminate against gays if they felt it might enhance profits?


----------



## 7thswan

chamoisee said:


> NO. WE DON'T HAVE TO LIVE IN THE CLOSET TO MAKE *YOU* HAPPY.
> 
> You don't have to hide who you love.
> 
> You don't have to hide that you're straight, or be afraid that someone might find out.
> 
> Your sexuality and orientation gets advertised every single day that you interact with other people, and if someone made a mistake and assumed you were gay, you'd be deeply offended.
> 
> You don't have any idea what you're asking of people when you ask them to live in the closet, and you certainly wouldn't be willing to put up with it yourself.
> 
> We are out of the closet, and we are STAYING out, whether you like it or not!


That"s funny. I've never been deeply offended when women have "hit" me. I always woundered what they see in me to think I'm game,especialy when they have always done it when I'm with a man. Noone cares if you are out of the closet, just stop trying to bully people into not haveing their own opnions. None of this mattered until gays insisted that a Natrual Union between a man and a woman,called Marriage-is the same as a Gay Union, we simply do not agree. But Gays can't accept that, THEY refuse to compromise and insist we do-EVERY time.


----------



## susieneddy

isn't this special

http://www.rawstory.com/2015/06/ari...nners-heart-i-hate-him-with-a-perfect-hatred/

[YOUTUBE]Fu-MC0A5THE[/YOUTUBE]


----------



## painterswife

7thswan said:


> That"s funny. I've never been deeply offended when women have "hit" me. I always woundered what they see in me to think I'm game,especialy when they have always done it when I'm with a man. Noone cares if you are out of the closet, just stop trying to bully people into not haveing their own opnions. None of this mattered until gays insisted that a Natrual Union between a man and a woman,called Marriage-is the same as a Gay Union, we simply do not agree. But Gays can't accept that, THEY refuse to compromise and insist we do-EVERY time.


You should read this thread again. It is abundantly apparent that many want samesex couples back in the closet with a lock on it.


----------



## chamoisee

HDRider said:


>


They look happy.  I'd much rather see this than judgmental, scowling, uptight people.


----------



## chamoisee

HDRider said:


> Maybe you'd like another... Those with a little less money than Brucie.


These aren't transgender. These two are men in DRAG. Drag is often associated with gay men, but there are straight men who enjoy dressing up in drag as well. Drag is about playing it up, there's an element of theater and being outrageous and fantastic. In contrast, the goal of a transgender person is typically to pass. Trans people typically do NOT want to stand out as being trans or for the fact of their birth gender to be obvious.


----------



## 7thswan

painterswife said:


> You should read this thread again. It is abundantly apparent that many want samesex couples back in the closet with a lock on it.


Naw, they just don't like the overtly sexual acting out in public. I didn't like it when my sis and her friend were all over each other in my living room and I don't like it if a hetro couple is doing it eather. Ever been to Fantesy Fest in Key West? Yikes, no need for anyone to act like that in public. I bet most people don't even know about certian fetishes,say scrotal enlargmet(filled with huge ammounts of air) but I certianly don't want to see it on the street. I'm trying to say, people just don't want to think about some things. Took me a whole month to plant the flowers on my dogs grave, I just avoided the painful thoughts, hate wasen't involved, just uncomfortable feelings.We do that as humans, we just do.


----------



## painterswife

7thswan said:


> Naw, they just don't like the overtly sexual acting out in public. I didn't like it when my sis and her friend were all over each other in my living room and I don't like it if a hetro couple is doing it eather. Ever been to Fantesy Fest in Key West? Yikes, no need for anyone to act like that in public. I bet most people don't even know about certian fetishes,say scrotal enlargmet(filled with huge ammounts of air) but I certianly don't want to see it on the street. I'm trying to say, people just don't want to think about some things. Took me a whole month to plant the flowers on my dogs grave, I just avoided the painful thoughts, hate wasen't involved, just uncomfortable feelings.We do that as humans, we just do.


No they have made it abundantly clear that even hand holding or a kiss is not wanted. It makes them think about what might happen in the bedroom.


----------



## kasilofhome

Just like any sin don't make me an unwanted accomplice..
Keep it to yourself.
Why do homosexual need to be special..I won't go to divorce person future wedding and they don't complain. Don't need need to see people screwing around.
I don't need to know the plans on folks cheating.

No, no cakes to celebrate drug use, or baby showers unwed moms. Yea, in some people's mind it's all about them.....surprise I am not going to be a willing supported in your lifestyle.

Don't ask dot tell worked so well. Yea, I know homos and I know as much about their private life as meoet learned about my bedroom life.


----------



## 7thswan

painterswife said:


> No they have made it abundantly clear that even hand holding or a kiss is not wanted. It makes them think about what might happen in the bedroom.


Ya, to them. I think it's the worst for men, they just are not going to like the image of themseves being " in bed" with another man. They don't want the thought being put into their head.
I tryed once to get a man to imagine how it is sometimes for women-to be afraid of getting raped. I said imagine being somewhere and "bubba" has decided he is going to take control of you and rape you. The guy could just not go there and insisted that "it" would not happen.


----------



## painterswife

7thswan said:


> Ya, to them. I think it's the worst for men, they just are not going to like the image of themseves being " in bed" with another man. They don't want the thought being put into their head.


If that is where someone's mind goes then that would be either their problem or their benefit. I don't look at heterosexual couples kissing and think of them in bed, though their would be nothing wrong if I did.


----------



## 7thswan

kasilofhome said:


> Just like any sin don't make me an unwanted accomplice..
> Keep it to yourself.
> Why do homosexual need to be special..I won't go to divorce person future wedding and they don't complain. Don't need need to see people screwing around.
> I don't need to know the plans on folks cheating.
> 
> No, no cakes to celebrate drug use, or baby showers unwed moms. Yea, in some people's mind it's all about them.....surprise I am not going to be a willing supported in your lifestyle.
> 
> Don't ask dot tell worked so well. Yea, I know homos and I know as much about their private life as meoet learned about my bedroom life.


Ya, I think alot of the showing off is for shock value, I'm like:boring: Some people just need attention.


----------



## 7thswan

painterswife said:


> If that is where someone's mind goes then that would be either their problem or their benefit. I don't look at heterosexual couples kissing and think of them in bed, though their would be nothing wrong if I did.


But that's you. Who knows what some people think. I prefer to hang out here with my dogs and plants, lot less misery than crap from people.


----------



## painterswife

7thswan said:


> But that's you. Who knows what some people think. I prefer to hang out here with my dogs and plants, lot less misery than crap from people.


That would be great. Everyone who has a problem with how other people live their personal lives can just mind their own business and stay out of other peoples.


----------



## oneraddad

painterswife said:


> That would be great. Everyone who has a problem with how other people live their personal lives can just mind their own business and stay out of other peoples.



I just wanted to quote this


----------



## Nevada

I'm amazed at how much people have to say about this. It's just not that big of a deal to me. If Jenner wants to be a woman I don't really care.


----------



## Jolly

mmoetc said:


> Is this your line or some legal line I'm unaware of. Hobby Lobby isn't a sole proprietorship yet it was recently allowed to follow its religous convictions. Publicly traded companies can donate unlimited funds to SuperPACs exerting their free speech rights. What of the array of business entities that lie between sole proprietorship and publicly traded? Just as publicly traded companies can be influence by their stockholders to act in socially responsible ways, couldn't they( as unlikely as it seems) be influenced by those same stockholders to discriminate against gays if they felt it might enhance profits?


Comparing apples and kumquats. 

Hobby Lobby didn't refuse to serve somebody, it refused contraception to its employees as part of their medical package.


----------



## 7thswan

Because some are calling it " an amazing moment in history". You don't care ,I don't care,most people don't care. So how about the media ignores this kind of stuff. I guess that's what people are thinking. ? Just guessing from my perspective.


----------



## Jolly

painterswife said:


> That would be great. Everyone who has a problem with how other people live their personal lives can just mind their own business and stay out of other peoples.


Until your life intrudes upon how I want to live mine.


----------



## 7thswan

Jolly said:


> Comparing apples and kumquats.
> 
> Hobby Lobby didn't refuse to serve somebody, it refused contraception to its employees as part of their medical package.


Ya, only one type- the abortion pill, there were still 14 other types of BC ava. to the employees.


----------



## painterswife

Jolly said:


> Until your life intrudes upon how I want to live mine.


How is my life going to intrude on yours?


----------



## Jolly

Nevada said:


> I'm amazed at how much people have to say about this. It's just not that big of a deal to me. If Jenner wants to be a woman I don't really care.


Most folks don't.

An awful lot of this discussion revolves around how special the gay community wants to be, their ideas of redefining normalcy, and what they want next after having been given whatever it is they want at the moment. Mr. Jenner has ceased to be the focus.

Some gay folks live pretty abundant lives. Lots of them, though, are on a constant hunt for acceptance and affirmation.

I think you do see some of this contained in the thread.


----------



## Jolly

painterswife said:


> How is my life going to intrude on yours?


Are you happy with this?










If so, and you think this is normal, you are intruding on how I wish to live my life.


----------



## painterswife

Jolly said:


> Are you happy with this?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If so, and you think this is normal, you are intruding on how I wish to live my life.


It does not matter whether I am all right with that or not. No laws are broken and I don't have to look at it if I don't want to. No different than you would see at most beaches.

*So you want freedom to live your life but you want the freedom to decide how someone else lives theirs as well. Nuff said.*


----------



## JeffreyD

chamoisee said:


> They look happy.  I'd much rather see this than judgmental, scowling, uptight people.


You mean like those folks in the background that have that disgusted look on their faces?


----------



## no really

Nevada said:


> I'm amazed at how much people have to say about this. It's just not that big of a deal to me. If Jenner wants to be a woman I don't really care.


Haven't read much of this thread because I really don't care either.


----------



## Jolly

painterswife said:


> It does not matter whether I am all right with that or not. No laws are broken and I don't have to look at it if I don't want to. No different than you would see at most beaches.
> 
> *So you want freedom to live your life but you want the freedom to decide how someone else lives theirs as well. Nuff said.*


Tell you what.

Walk down small town main street in a couple of jock straps with your butt hanging out, and I don't care what your sexual orientation is, you better like jail food.

Trash is trash. It doesn't matter what cause it is advocating, decent people don't need that waltzing down the street.


----------



## painterswife

Jolly said:


> Tell you what.
> 
> Walk down small town main street in a couple of jock straps with your butt hanging out, and I don't care what your sexual orientation is, you better like jail food.
> 
> Trash is trash. It doesn't matter what cause it is advocating, decent people don't need that waltzing down the street.


Well then you don't have anything to worry about.


----------



## 7thswan

painterswife said:


> How is my life going to intrude on yours?


I'll also awnser this. I'm not going to say "you" in particular. So I'll say Liberialism is intruding on my life. They ruined my Health Care, They are letting illegals of every kind(druggies,sick people,gang member terrorists ect. these people endanger our lives, our jobs and suck up our taxes. There is so much more, but the point always goes back that liberialism doesn't work and they are useing gays,blacks,forieners ect.(Voters with needs) to trash our Country and our way of like-that intrudes on me,even if it takes years to see the result.The fish rotts from the head down and this government that is causeing all this discord -stinks to high Heaven.


----------



## painterswife

7thswan said:


> I'll also awnser this. I'm not going to say "you" in particular. So I'll say Liberialism is intruding on my life. They ruined my Health Care, They are letting illegals of every kind(druggies,sick people,gang member terrorists ect. these people endanger our lives, our jobs and suck up our taxes. There is so much more, but the point always goes back that liberialism doesn't work and they are useing gays,blacks,forieners ect.(Voters with needs) to trash our Country and our way of like-that intrudes on me,even if it takes years to see the result.The fish rotts from the head down and this government that is causeing all this discord -stinks to high Heaven.


There is lots of rotten to go round. Liberal and conservative.


----------



## Jolly

Sure.

But that doesn't fix anything, does it?


----------



## painterswife

Jolly said:


> Sure.
> 
> But that doesn't fix anything, does it?


Telling a gay couple that they should hide so that it makes you happy does not either.


----------



## Patchouli

no really said:


> So now personal attacks are allowed? Gotta pop some corn and watch the show.:rock:


Especially when I have been gone all day and have to catch up on 10 pages. I may need some coffee with my popcorn....  (we need a popcorn smiley)


----------



## Tricky Grama

painterswife said:


> You should read this thread again. It is abundantly apparent that many want samesex couples back in the closet with a lock on it.


How on earth could you get that out of 7th post? 
Frankly, I'm weary of your hatefullness.


----------



## Tricky Grama

Irish Pixie said:


> I'm beginning to think that the amount of hate someone carries for homosexuality as a measure of latent gayness is really true, but that's just me. If one uses this thread as a measuring stick there are a ton of closeted gays on this forum.


And I'm beginning to think there is no end to your rude name calling hatefullness. And I doubt its just me.


----------



## Tricky Grama

Loved this, girl, LOVED it!


[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=920-DaPdbKo[/ame]


----------



## susieneddy

Tricky Grama said:


> And I'm beginning to think there is no end to your rude name calling hatefullness. And I doubt its just me.


what name callings? She was making an observation.


----------



## painterswife

Tricky Grama said:


> And I'm beginning to think there is no end to your rude name calling hatefullness. And I doubt its just me.


You are guilty of rude name calling quite often.


----------



## Patchouli

susieneddy said:


> what name callings? She was making an observation.


Maybe she meant Jolly? He just called people trash for not dressing the way he thinks they ought. :grin:


----------



## FeralFemale

Patchouli said:


> Maybe she meant Jolly? He just called people trash for not dressing the way he thinks they ought. :grin:


I don't know if I'd call that 'dressing' cause I think they forgot a few garments.


----------



## Jolly

susieneddy said:


> what name callings? She was making an observation.


Or a projection.

The gay community slings around a lot of names in their discussions. Hater and breeder are pretty common ones I've seen over the years.

See, one of the things talked about in _The Art of War_ is to never assume your enemy thinks the same way you do. In the end, that's a bad mistake.

Now, I don't think most straight people or even Evangelical Christians could be considered the enemies of gay people. But the gay people certainly feel that any that oppose them or their lifestyle feel intense animosity towards them.

I think that is a projection of their own feelings against people who oppose the gay agenda.


----------



## Jolly

painterswife said:


> Telling a gay couple that they should hide so that it makes you happy does not either.


Sorry, that couple certainly needs to hide.

Would you be comfortable letting your children watch that cavort on a public street?


----------



## Jolly

Patchouli said:


> Maybe she meant Jolly? He just called people trash for not dressing the way he thinks they ought. :grin:


I didn't call them trash.

That couple _is_ trash!


----------



## Bearfootfarm

Jolly said:


> And you should work on your reading comprehension skills.
> 
> Your own research (even through Wiki, the portal of all truth :boring proves exactly what I said.
> 
> Next.


I understood what you said

I even quoted the applicable portions, and showed they were wrong.

Why try to deny it when it's there for all to see?

Don't whine about my source when all you've offered is misinformation


----------



## Jolly

Bearfootfarm said:


> I understood what you said
> 
> I even quoted the applicable portions, and showed they were wrong.
> 
> Why try to deny it when it's there for all to see?
> 
> Don't whine about my source when all you've offered is misinformation


I stand by my original statement.

Are you calling me a liar?


----------



## Patchouli

I think some of you would love this Pastor:

http://www.rawstory.com/2015/06/ari...nners-heart-i-hate-him-with-a-perfect-hatred/


> *Arizona pastor prays for God to rip out Caitlyn Jennerâs heart: âI hate him with a perfect hatredâ*
> 
> 
> An Arizona pastor said he prayed for God to rip out the heart of Caitlyn Jenner and cast her soul into the fiery depths of Hell.
> Pastor Steven Anderson, who predicted an âAIDS-free Christmasâ if all LGBT people were put to death, explained to his congregation at Faithful Word Baptist Church that it was not wrong to pray for the deaths of your enemies â like he had done for President Barack Obama.


----------



## Patchouli

Jolly said:


> I stand by my original statement.
> 
> Are you calling me a liar?


Are you trying to bait him into trouble?


----------



## Jolly

Patchouli said:


> Are you trying to bait him into trouble?


Nope.

But he is accusing me of deliberately spreading misinformation. Where I come from, that's tantamount to calling someone a liar.

I have put forth my case that interracial marriage was not universally banned. I have given Frederick Douglas as the most high-profile example. Even in the wiki cite, there are gaps in when it was banned or not in certain regions, and it never was banned under Federal law.

Now, if one wishes to refute that, they may. I believe it irrefutable.

But don't walk into a room swinging a dead cat, and expect no one to take umbrage.


----------



## Patchouli

Let's go back to the original exchange:



Jolly said:


> You're free to marry right now. It just has to be someone of the opposite sex. If that isn't what you want, don't get married.





painterswife said:


> Is that what was told couples of different races back when it was against the law? They were free to marry but only the right color?





Jolly said:


> You do know there has never been a Federal miscegenation law, don't you?





painterswife said:


> Did I say there was?


You screwed up the whole thing by dragging federal law into it. She never meant a federal law, she stated that, you just kept hammering that point. She was right there were tons of laws in America at the state level that prevented people of differing races from marrying. Just like today there are laws at the state level that prevent people from getting married if they are gay. Bearfootfarm backed up her point as true. You keep trying to quibble a point that was never made. 

You put forth a case that was pointless because you were arguing something no one ever claimed.


----------



## wr

I'm kinda thinking that if nobody has changed their mind after 16 pages, they're probably not going to.


----------



## Bearfootfarm

Jolly said:


> Are you happy with this?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If so, and you think this is normal, you are *intruding on how I wish to live *my life.


How is it "intruding" when you not only went looking for that picture, but* knew where to find it*?
(Not that there's anything wrong with that)


----------



## Irish Pixie

Bearfootfarm said:


> How is it "intruding" when you not only went looking for that picture, but* knew where to find it*?
> (Not that there's anything wrong with that)


Absolutely positively. :grin: 

If having to see an uncovered butt disgusts you (a general you), then there must be a whole bunch of people boycotting going to the beach, pools, water parks, etc... Right? Thong bikinis have been around for 20+ years.

I'm guessing it's more about who is wearing the butt baring clothes than the bare butt itself, yes?


----------



## HDRider

wr said:


> I'm kinda thinking that if nobody has changed their mind after 16 pages, they're probably not going to.


No doubt. We live in a divided country on so many issue, both social and governmental. I am sick and tired of it. I hate (there you go Pixie) what this country is becoming and fear that we are marching headlong into ruin as a modern day Rome. Bruce Jenner, in what ever form HE takes, is one of many alters to a false gods.

I could wish it all away, but then what?

Fear it, fight it or welcome it, come what may. I'll fight.


----------



## mmoetc

Jolly said:


> Comparing apples and kumquats.
> 
> Hobby Lobby didn't refuse to serve somebody, it refused contraception to its employees as part of their medical package.


More like comparing cortlands, to red delicious to Granny Smiths. The examples I gave were all of businesses larger than sole proprietorships being allowed to exercise some constitutional right. The right most use to try to justify discriminating against gays is the right to freely practice their religion. What I was comparing was different sized businesses exercising a constitutional right. In wasn't comparing the rights exercised.

The question I asked of you was whether the limit to discriminate based on public stock being sold was your construct or a legal one. A question you haven't answered.


----------



## Jolly

mmoetc said:


> More like comparing cortlands, to red delicious to Granny Smiths. The examples I gave were all of businesses larger than sole proprietorships being allowed to exercise some constitutional right. The right most use to try to justify discriminating against gays is the right to freely practice their religion. What I was comparing was different sized businesses exercising a constitutional right. In wasn't comparing the rights exercised.
> 
> The question I asked of you was whether the limit to discriminate based on public stock being sold was your construct or a legal one. A question you haven't answered.


Currently, it's where I think a common sense cut-off exists, that does not trample on the rights of any individual.


----------



## Jolly

Irish Pixie said:


> Absolutely positively. :grin:
> 
> If having to see an uncovered butt disgusts you (a general you), then there must be a whole bunch of people boycotting going to the beach, pools, water parks, etc... Right? Thong bikinis have been around for 20+ years.
> 
> I'm guessing it's more about who is wearing the butt baring clothes than the bare butt itself, yes?


I'm sorry, but I think even a lot of gays would disagree with you, that the picture is something they'd want walking down mainstreet in their community.


----------



## Jolly

Bearfootfarm said:


> How is it "intruding" when you not only went looking for that picture, but* knew where to find it*?
> (Not that there's anything wrong with that)


See there, you're projecting again.

You're making the insinuation that a person must be gay, or must have latent homosexual tendencies, to be able to find a gay parade picture, *that any idiot with a computer and web access can find in a single search term on Google!*

If you are having trouble finding such photos for whatever reason you would want them, google the term "gay parade" and then select "images".


----------



## mmoetc

Jolly said:


> Currently, it's where I think a common sense cut-off exists, that does not trample on the rights of any individual.


Thanks for clarifying. I'll disagree. There's nothing common sensecal, to me, about a system that would make me potentially meet the arbitrary standards of every business owner I approach before I could purchase a pack of gum.


----------



## mmoetc

Jolly said:


> I'm sorry, but I think even a lot of gays would disagree with you, that the picture is something they'd want walking down mainstreet in their community.


I hope you're not a fan of something like the NFL. Or if you are I hope you avert your eyes and cover those of the youngsters when the shot goes to the sidelines showing the "cheerleaders" flashing all but nipple and large expanse of backside in their, oh so tasteful, outfits. Or when they show up at the local parade, community event or shopping center.


----------



## Irish Pixie

Jolly said:


> I'm sorry, but I think even a lot of gays would disagree with you, that the picture is something they'd want walking down mainstreet in their community.


You can't hold up a picture from a gay pride parade and say this occurs every day everywhere because it just doesn't. 

How 'bout the women in a thong bikinis? Ok to walk around in public every day? Much more likely scenario than two gay guys in jock straps, wouldn't you agree?


----------



## Jolly

mmoetc said:


> Thanks for clarifying. I'll disagree. There's nothing common sensecal, to me, about a system that would make me potentially meet the arbitrary standards of every business owner I approach before I could purchase a pack of gum.


But see, that's the problem.

You see a dangerous critter behind every door. It doesn't exist.

How often do you think a private business owner will turn you down?


----------



## Jolly

Irish Pixie said:


> You can't hold up a picture from a gay pride parade and say this occurs every day everywhere because it just doesn't.
> 
> How 'bout the women in a thong bikinis? Ok to walk around in public every day? Much more likely scenario than two gay guys in jock straps, wouldn't you agree?


A thong bikini on mainstreet in my little town would get you arrested for indecent exposure.


----------



## painterswife

Personally, plumbers crack is more offensive to me. Either way I can choose to not look or to not go to the parade.


----------



## mmoetc

Jolly said:


> But see, that's the problem.
> 
> You see a dangerous critter behind every door. It doesn't exist.
> 
> How often do you think a private business owner will turn you down?


Once would be more than enough. I wouldn't think a baker wouldn't sell a cake. Or a florist not sell flowers. Or a restaraunteer not sell food. Or a hotelier not rent rooms. What I think has been proven wrong throughout our history and even today. If the rainbow sticker on my car bumper is enough to get me denied what of the Star of David or the Icthys? What of the color of my skin?


----------



## Irish Pixie

Jolly said:


> A thong bikini on mainstreet in my little town would get you arrested for indecent exposure.


Perhaps, perhaps not. Depends on if you're little town has a law on the books that specifically identifies thongs as indecent. 

But you ignored the part about "Much more likely scenario than two gay guys in jock straps, wouldn't you agree?"


----------



## Irish Pixie

mmoetc said:


> Once would be more than enough. I wouldn't think a baker wouldn't sell a cake. Or a florist not sell flowers. Or a restaraunteer not sell food. Or a hotelier not rent rooms. What I think has been proven wrong throughout our history and even today. If the rainbow sticker on my car bumper is enough to get me denied what of the Star of David or the Icthys? What of the color of my skin?


Tolerant post of the day award.


----------



## mmoetc

Jolly said:


> A thong bikini on mainstreet in my little town would get you arrested for indecent exposure.


So your high school cheerleaders, Pom pon girls and dance team wear knee length skirts during the homecoming parade? Or is fueling adolescent fantasy ok as long its the "right" fantasy?


----------



## Evons hubby

Irish Pixie said:


> How 'bout the women in a thong bikinis? Ok to walk around in public every day?


That depends entirely upon the woman who is wearing it. If she is 25 years old, 5'2", weighs in at 103.... maybe..... but if she is weighing in at 400... prolly not!


----------



## Irish Pixie

Yvonne's hubby said:


> That depends entirely upon the woman who is wearing it. If she is 25 years old, 5'2", weighs in at 103.... maybe..... but if she is weighing in at 400... prolly not!


I like seeing a well shaped derriere in a jock strap too, with the same provisions of course.


----------



## Jolly

mmoetc said:


> Once would be more than enough. I wouldn't think a baker wouldn't sell a cake. Or a florist not sell flowers. Or a restaraunteer not sell food. Or a hotelier not rent rooms. What I think has been proven wrong throughout our history and even today. If the rainbow sticker on my car bumper is enough to get me denied what of the Star of David or the Icthys? What of the color of my skin?


What of the rights of the individual to do business with who he chooses?

Because he is in business, is he suddenly imbued with second class rights?


----------



## Jolly

mmoetc said:


> So your high school cheerleaders, Pom pon girls and dance team wear knee length skirts during the homecoming parade? Or is fueling adolescent fantasy ok as long its the "right" fantasy?


Do you realize what you sound like?

You're equating a high school cheerleader in a marching parade, with two guys in jockstraps with their butts hanging out.

No, I don't want anybody that thinks those two things are equivalent, near a child, much less raising one.


----------



## painterswife

Jolly said:


> What of the rights of the individual to do business with who he chooses?
> 
> Because he is in business, is he suddenly imbued with second class rights?


Actually when you start a business you have to follow the laws as they are. if you don't like the laws then you either fight them or don't start a business.

The citizens of the US have decided through elections and laws that it is important to the economy , the country and the people to have laws with regards to businesses.


----------



## Jolly

Irish Pixie said:


> Perhaps, perhaps not. Depends on if you're little town has a law on the books that specifically identifies thongs as indecent.
> 
> But you ignored the part about "Much more likely scenario than two gay guys in jock straps, wouldn't you agree?"


I didn't ignore.

It's never happened.

Even the most indecent people here, wouldn't stoop that low. Even those folks have a bit of respect for their fellow citizens. And if they don't, perhaps they can acquire some until they make bail.


----------



## painterswife

Jolly said:


> Do you realize what you sound like?
> 
> You're equating a high school cheerleader in a marching parade, with two guys in jockstraps with their butts hanging out.
> 
> No, I don't want anybody that thinks those two things are equivalent, near a child, much less raising one.


Have you seen the dance routines those cheerleaders do? Lots more suggestive then human skin. Still you have the freedom to look away and others have the freedom to look.


----------



## mmoetc

Jolly said:


> What of the rights of the individual to do business with who he chooses?
> 
> Because he is in business, is he suddenly imbued with second class rights?


It's his choice to enter a business knowing the rules and regulations in place. He can work to change them to favor his business, he can move his business to a place that favors his belief. He can structure his business so that it complies with his beliefs but that often limits his clientele. He can even build into his business model the cost of the fines for breaking the law. Simple cost benefit. There are legal ways to discriminate. It can be done based on race, sex , even religion. Want to open a business and discriminate against any group. Go ahead. But that discrimination shouldn't come as a surprise to a customer.


----------



## Jolly

painterswife said:


> Have you seen the dance routines those cheerleaders do? Lots more suggestive then human skin. Still you have the freedom to look away and others have the freedom to look.


No. 

When it got past the point, the citizens of the community shut that stuff down. We don't need it, we don't want it. There is a line between art and vulgarity. We choose not to be common. We choose to have our children excel. In doing so, you have to teach kids what is appropriate and what is not. Concentrate on the virtues, reject the vulgar.

There is dancing, there are routines and then there are moves best left in a strip club (which we also don't tolerate down here).


----------



## painterswife

Jolly said:


> No.
> 
> When it got past the point, the citizens of the community shut that stuff down. We don't need it, we don't want it. There is a line between art and vulgarity. We choose not to be common. We choose to have our children excel. In doing so, you have to teach kids what is appropriate and what is not. Concentrate on the virtues, reject the vulgar.
> 
> There is dancing, there are routines and then there are moves best left in a strip club (which we also don't tolerate down here).


Then why are looking for pictures on the internet that you feel are vulgar?


----------



## Irish Pixie

Jolly said:


> No.
> 
> When it got past the point, the citizens of the community shut that stuff down. We don't need it, we don't want it. There is a line between art and vulgarity. We choose not to be common. We choose to have our children excel. In doing so, you have to teach kids what is appropriate and what is not. Concentrate on the virtues, reject the vulgar.
> 
> There is dancing, there are routines and then there are moves best left in a strip club (which we also don't tolerate down here).


Then why are you worrying about gay men in jock straps? That won't happen in your little town either, or they'll have to make bail. Right?


----------



## mmoetc

Jolly said:


> Do you realize what you sound like?
> 
> You're equating a high school cheerleader in a marching parade, with two guys in jockstraps with their butts hanging out.
> 
> No, I don't want anybody that thinks those two things are equivalent, near a child, much less raising one.


I don't think they're equivalent. I tend to think institutional sexualizing of teenage girls is worse than a couple of adult gays sexualizing themselves.


----------



## Irish Pixie

mmoetc said:


> I don't think they're equivalent. I tend to think institutional sexualizing of teenage girls is worse than a couple of adult gays sexualizing themselves.


Absolutely. And the reason why young women have the issues they do.


----------



## mmoetc

Jolly said:


> No.
> 
> When it got past the point, the citizens of the community shut that stuff down. We don't need it, we don't want it. There is a line between art and vulgarity. We choose not to be common. We choose to have our children excel. In doing so, you have to teach kids what is appropriate and what is not. Concentrate on the virtues, reject the vulgar.
> 
> There is dancing, there are routines and then there are moves best left in a strip club (which we also don't tolerate down here).


LSU seems pretty tolerant.

http://www.lsusports.net/ViewArticle.dbml?ATCLID=177266


----------



## HDRider

painterswife said:


> Actually when you start a business you have to follow the laws as they are. if you don't like the laws then you either fight them or don't start a business.
> 
> The citizens of the US have decided through elections and laws that it is important to the economy , the country and the people to have laws with regards to businesses.


Some sense around some places...

RALEIGH -- A measure allowing some court officials to refuse to perform gay marriage responsibilities because of their religious beliefs became law in North Carolina on Thursday

http://abc11.com/news/nc-house-overrides-magistrate-same-sex-marriage-veto/778183/


----------



## HDRider

mmoetc said:


> I don't think they're equivalent. I tend to think institutional sexualizing of teenage girls is worse than a couple of adult gays sexualizing themselves.


I guess you just got to get over it. Pop culture won that one years ago. Now homos are fighting their pop culture battles.


----------



## Irish Pixie

HDRider said:


> I guess you just got to get over it. Pop culture won that one years ago. Now homos are fighting their pop culture battles.


You'll (a collective you) just have to get over gays being out.


----------



## HDRider

Irish Pixie said:


> You'll (a collective you) just have to get over gays being out.


Speaking for me, (the singular), not going to happen.


----------



## Lisa in WA

HDRider said:


> Some sense around some places...
> 
> RALEIGH -- A measure allowing some court officials to refuse to perform gay marriage responsibilities because of their religious beliefs became law in North Carolina on Thursday
> 
> http://abc11.com/news/nc-house-overrides-magistrate-same-sex-marriage-veto/778183/





HDRider said:


> Speaking for me, (the singular), not going to happen.


So. What will you do about it?


----------



## Irish Pixie

HDRider said:


> Speaking for me, (the singular), not going to happen.


Curious. How are you going to accomplish that without isolating yourself in a compound? There are out gays everywhere- where you shop, restaurants, doctor's offices, just everywhere.


----------



## 7thswan

painterswife said:


> The citizens of the US have decided through elections and laws that it is important to the economy , the country and the people to have laws with regards to businesses.


That's total bunk. Our elections are won on lies. People that voted for Obama voted for lies from a lier, not to mention they voted for him because they are rayciss.


----------



## 7thswan

Irish Pixie said:


> Curious. How are you going to accomplish that without isolating yourself in a compound? There are out gays everywhere- where you shop, restaurants, doctor's offices, just everywhere.


Get over it. Being Gay does not make them important enough to have a person change their own mind over. They will just be ignored,because they are getting obnoxious.


----------



## HDRider

Irish Pixie said:


> Curious. How are you going to accomplish that without isolating yourself in a compound? There are out gays everywhere- where you shop, restaurants, doctor's offices, just everywhere.


I am not saying I am not accepting their existence. I have worked around many of them, knowingly, and unknowingly. I do not deny they exist.


----------



## Irish Pixie

7thswan said:


> Get over it. Being Gay does not make them important enough to have a person change their own mind over. They will just be ignored,because they are getting obnoxious.


You're absolutely right about being gay does not make them important, it's being human makes all of us important. There is absolutely not a bit of difference between you and a lesbian except what happens in the privacy of the bedroom. 

So, you'll just ignore gays now that they've become uppity?


----------



## Irish Pixie

HDRider said:


> I am not saying I am not accepting their existence. I have worked around many of them, knowingly, and unknowingly. I do not deny they exist.


So, what are you doing about it now that gays are publicly out? Just say anti-gay things on message boards or do you boycott anything gay to make a statement that you are not accepting of their lifestyle?


----------



## HDRider

Irish Pixie said:


> So, what are you doing about it now that gays are publicly out? Just say anti-gay things on message boards or do you boycott anything gay to make a statement that you are not accepting of their lifestyle?


I don't have to do more than know in my heart and mind that they suffer in ways I cannot begin to imagine.


----------



## 7thswan

Irish Pixie said:


> You're absolutely right about being gay does not make them important, it's being human makes all of us important. There is absolutely not a bit of difference between you and a lesbian except what happens in the privacy of the bedroom.
> 
> So, you'll just ignore gays now that they've become uppity?


They've been out forever, so what ,they are just being pushie because the commie is in office stiring up trouble. Don't tell me they are no diffrent than me- I've heard them say millions of times they are and That, is why they are so In your face about it in public.


----------



## Jolly

Irish Pixie said:


> Curious. How are you going to accomplish that without isolating yourself in a compound? There are out gays everywhere- where you shop, restaurants, doctor's offices, just everywhere.


This may come as a surprise to you, but a guy I promoted to a management position under me, looked a heckuva lot better in a dress than Mr. Jenner. And if you asked, he could tell a few tales about certain gay bathhouses that might embarrass even you.

But...that was his personal life. If two guys had walked down mainstreet in jock straps, he would have been one of the very first people to boo them.

And he wasn't the only homosexual we worked with. In a staff of 550, you're gonna have around 30 or so, and we did. I can't think of a single one that would have condoned some of the things I have seen advocated in this thread.


----------



## wr

7thswan said:


> They've been out forever, so what ,they are just being pushie because the commie is in office stiring up trouble. Don't tell me they are no diffrent than me- I've heard them say millions of times they are and That, is why they are so In your face about it in public.


Interestingly enough, gays are no different than anyone else and that's been their position for a very long time. 

It's folks like yourself and many others that claim they're different.


----------



## Jolly

mmoetc said:


> LSU seems pretty tolerant.
> 
> http://www.lsusports.net/ViewArticle.dbml?ATCLID=177266


Know any of those girls?

The blonde girl, first left on the bottom row, is now in LSU Law School. The tallest brunette on the back row is the daughter of a farmer and has been accepted LSU Medical School - New Orleans. One of the other girls, I know not which one, was also accepted to medical school.

You know, those girls work very hard for their scholarships. I commend them.

If you get a chance, ask anyone of them do they feel that they have been sexualized for a purpose. Most would ignore you. The brunette might slap you. And the blonde I mentioned, she'd argue with you until Hades froze over.

She's gonna make a good lawyer...


----------



## 7thswan

wr said:


> Interestingly enough, gays are no different than anyone else and that's been their position for a very long time.
> 
> It's folks like yourself and many others that claim they're different.


Gays can say what ever they want about people that are not like them, how would they know and why should I think their opinion is more valuable than mine. I do not go arround obsessing about my sexuality enough to do any of the things I see "others" do, and I say others because I'm adding in the Bruce Jenner types/gays/cross dressers/fetishes/ect.


----------



## Bearfootfarm

HDRider said:


> Some sense around some places...
> 
> RALEIGH -- A measure allowing some court officials to refuse to perform gay marriage responsibilities because of their religious beliefs became law in North Carolina on Thursday
> 
> http://abc11.com/news/nc-house-overrides-magistrate-same-sex-marriage-veto/778183/


I suspect that law will be overturned, and they will still be doing the weddings at all locations.


----------



## Jolly

wr said:


> Interestingly enough, gays are no different than anyone else and that's been their position for a very long time.
> 
> It's folks like yourself and many others that claim they're different.


I'm sorry, but that's not their position. Not as I see it.

The comments on this thread alone, about our two gay paraders, speak volumes about how different some gays wish to be...and still be considered "normal".


----------



## painterswife

7thswan said:


> Gays can say what ever they want about people that are not like them, how would they know and why should I think their opinion is more valuable than mine. I do not go arround obsessing about my sexuality enough to do any of the things I see "others" do, and I say others because I'm adding in the Bruce Jenner types/gays/cross dressers/fetishes/ect.


No but your posts suggest you obsess about other peoples sexuality.


----------



## painterswife

Jolly said:


> I'm sorry, but that's not their position. Not as I see it.
> 
> The comments on this thread alone, about our two gay paraders, speak volumes about how different some gays wish to be...and still be considered "normal".


There are just as many hetosexuals dressing up like the two you call gay paraders. Did you ask those two if they wanted to be considered normal? I think they want to be considered equal under the law but don't give one iota what you think is normal.


----------



## Bearfootfarm

Jolly said:


> What of the rights of the individual to do business with who he chooses?
> 
> Because he is in business, is he suddenly imbued with second class rights?


There is no such "right" when a business serves the public unless the same rule applies to all customers, such as health rules or dress codes.

A business cannot discriminate based on sex, race, or religion, to name a few things


----------



## Irish Pixie

Jolly said:


> This may come as a surprise to you, but a guy I promoted to a management position under me, looked a heckuva lot better in a dress than Mr. Jenner. And if you asked, he could tell a few tales about certain gay bathhouses that might embarrass even you.
> 
> But...that was his personal life. If two guys had walked down mainstreet in jock straps, he would have been one of the very first people to boo them.
> 
> And he wasn't the only homosexual we worked with. In a staff of 550, you're gonna have around 30 or so, and we did. I can't think of a single one that would have condoned some of the things I have seen advocated in this thread.


Thanks, but that's not what I asked the OP. 

I'm sure that gays opinion about other gays is diverse as non-gays about other non-gays.


----------



## Irish Pixie

7thswan said:


> They've been out forever, so what ,they are just being pushie because the commie is in office stiring up trouble. Don't tell me they are no diffrent than me- I've heard them say millions of times they are and That, is why they are so In your face about it in public.


What's the difference between you and a lesbian out of the privacy of the bedroom? Please explain.

I'm sure they're are some gays that wish that you would't be so dang hetro in public too.


----------



## chamoisee

kasilofhome said:


> Just like any sin don't make me an unwanted accomplice..
> Keep it to yourself.
> Why do homosexual need to be special..I won't go to divorce person future wedding and they don't complain. Don't need need to see people screwing around.
> I don't need to know the plans on folks cheating.
> 
> No, no cakes to celebrate drug use, or baby showers unwed moms. Yea, in some people's mind it's all about them.....surprise I am not going to be a willing supported in your lifestyle.
> 
> Don't ask dot tell worked so well. Yea, I know homos and I know as much about their private life as meoet learned about my bedroom life.


It's not a sin. Or rather, WE don't consider it sin. Go read your bible again. Gluttony. Do you have a problem with going to all you can eat buffets and watching people sin by pigging out? Sloth. Do you avoid consorting with couch potatoes? 

There ARE things that I consider sins. Rampant waste, for example. Still, I have to drive by and watch other people throw away perfectly good things. How dare they make me an unwilling accomplice! 

And war! I'm a pacifist, but not only do I have to suffer with seeing people who have killed others get celebrated as heroes, but also, my tax dollars go to helping to drop landmines on poor countries, where children not so different from my own will pick them up and be blown to smithereens or maimed for life. I have to pay to kill *children* even though it goes against everything I believe in. That is being an unwilling accomplice. 

Unless someone is lassoing you into a gay pride parade and forcing a sign into your hand, you aren't being forced to be an accomplice to what *you* consider to be a sin.


----------



## Bearfootfarm

Jolly said:


> I stand by *my original statement*.


I'm not sure how you can "stand by" a statement when it's been proven incorrect, or why you would want to, but if that's what you choose to do it's fine with me.



> Are you calling me a liar?


If I were, you would have seen the word "liar" in my post.

I simply pointed out the fact what you said wasn't true, and those laws did in fact exist in most states.

Your "original statement" was about Federal laws, which no one but you ever mentioned. 

It was the later statements that have proven to be false

I even quoted them to make it easy to understand

If you think WIKI is incorrect, show your source that says they didn't exist.


----------



## 7thswan

painterswife said:


> No but your posts suggest you obsess about other peoples sexuality.


Don't insult me. It disgusts me that its being forced upon us by changing the Def. of Marriage-because a low life fraud like obama is useing people like gays to stick it to the American people. You can't open you eyes enough to see that you will be hurt in the end by him also.He's doing the same with blacks against cops. It's his classic marxist training from S. Alynski.


----------



## Patchouli

HDRider said:


> Speaking for me, (the singular), not going to happen.


Fortunately generations younger than yours are more enlightened.


----------



## painterswife

7thswan said:


> Don't insult me. It disgusts me that its being forced upon us by changing the Def. of Marriage-because a low life fraud like obama is useing people like gays to stick it to the American people. You can't open you eyes enough to see that you will be hurt in the end by him also.He's doing the same with blacks against cops. It's his classic marxist training from S. Alynski.


I was not trying to insult you. I was trying to point out that others might see your posts in a certain way. This thread has nothing to do with Obama either.


----------



## Patchouli

Jolly said:


> Know any of those girls?
> 
> The blonde girl, first left on the bottom row, is now in LSU Law School. The tallest brunette on the back row is the daughter of a farmer and has been accepted LSU Medical School - New Orleans. One of the other girls, I know not which one, was also accepted to medical school.
> 
> You know, those girls work very hard for their scholarships. I commend them.
> 
> If you get a chance, ask anyone of them do they feel that they have been sexualized for a purpose. Most would ignore you. The brunette might slap you. And the blonde I mentioned, she'd argue with you until Hades froze over.
> 
> She's gonna make a good lawyer...


So it's okay for them to wear skimpy clothes and dance that way so long as you know them and can vouch for them being decent girls. I am sure all the gay guys in the pics posted here have family members who love them and can vouch for them too. And they probably are intelligent and have good careers too. Your post really proves that we only fear what we do not know and understand.


----------



## 7thswan

Irish Pixie said:


> What's the difference between you and a lesbian out of the privacy of the bedroom? Please explain.
> 
> I'm sure they're are some gays that wish that you would't be so dang hetro in public too.


You really think gays think that or care, now you insult gays. Do gays get insulted when they see a bull breed a cow? Or is that so unnatural to them they lose sleep over it. Get a grip you just want to argue for the sake of argueing, you don't give a rats behind about gays any more than you do a nongay.


----------



## susieneddy

Jolly said:


> This may come as a surprise to you,* but a guy I promoted to a management position under me, looked a heckuva lot better in a dress than Mr. Jenner. And if you asked, he could tell a few tales about certain gay bathhouses that might embarrass even you.*
> 
> But...that was his personal life. If two guys had walked down mainstreet in jock straps, he would have been one of the very first people to boo them.
> 
> And he wasn't the only homosexual we worked with. In a staff of 550, you're gonna have around 30 or so, and we did. I can't think of a single one that would have condoned some of the things I have seen advocated in this thread.


wait..stop the presses....you have seen this guy in a dress and he looked a heckuva lot better in a dress than Mr. Jenner.....your words. Just curious as to where you saw him in a dress. I am sure it isn't in that little town that you live in.
He has told you tales about certain gay bathhouses and you sat there and listened to him. Just curious as to why? 

How do you know he boo them or is that just your opinion of what he would do. How do you know that in a staff of 550 you are going to have 30 or so. Are they that open about being gay? Surely that wouldn't fly in your little town


----------



## Irish Pixie

7thswan said:


> You really think gays think that or care, now you insult gays. Do gays get insulted when they see a bull breed a cow? Or is that so unnatural to them they lose sleep over it. Get a grip you just want to argue for the sake of argueing, you don't give a rats behind about gays any more than you do a nongay.


Oh, but I do care about gays. I have a family member who is gay, and openly out. The bit about not caring about anyone is just ridiculous. 

Can you answer my question, please? What is the difference between you and a lesbian outside the bedroom?


----------



## 7thswan

painterswife said:


> I was not trying to insult you. I was trying to point out that others might see your posts in a certain way. This thread has nothing to do with Obama either.


It has everything to do with obama and I told you that. If you would see him from another side just like you are trying to make everyone else see gays side-you would get it. He wants this, people feeling alone, lost,misunderstood so that he can "change" things. You need to stop falling for it. It will be better for gays and everyone else if people stop shoveing what they want/think on others. You guys act like you are gloating over a sports game win, with this Gay marriage, ect. All you are doing is pokeing a po'd section of people off -that is not so wise.


----------



## painterswife

7thswan said:


> It has everything to do with obama and I told you that. If you would see him from another side just like you are trying to make everyone else see gays side-you would get it. He wants this, people feeling alone, lost,misunderstood so that he can "change" things. You need to stop falling for it. It will be better for gays and everyone else if people stop shoveing what they want/think on others. You guys act like you are gloating over a sports game win, with this Gay marriage, ect. All you are doing is pokeing a po'd section of people off -that is not so wise.


I am falling for nothing. I think you have a ridiculous conspiracy theory going there that makes no sense. You can tell me and anyone else you want over and over but it will not make it a reality.

Do you really believe that Bruce Jenner a republican is getting transgender as part of some plan by Obama?


----------



## wr

Jolly said:


> I'm sorry, but that's not their position. Not as I see it.
> 
> The comments on this thread alone, about our two gay paraders, speak volumes about how different some gays wish to be...and still be considered "normal".


Which gays have spoken here on this matter? I think you may have extrapolated incorrectly. 

I haven't seen any gay men walking down my street dressed as you indicated you feel they do nor have I seen any on the streets of any of the cities I've been in so I'm just not seeing it as a rampant trend and obviously you're not either if you had to search the internet rather than your local paper for such information. 

You selected something for shock value and expected folks to rise to the bait but realistically, you know that two guys in a parade have no bearing on someone's desire to marry nor is it common attire for the gay community.


----------



## 7thswan

Irish Pixie said:


> Oh, but I do care about gays. I have a family member who is gay, and openly out. The bit about not caring about anyone is just ridiculous.
> 
> Can you answer my question, please? What is the difference between you and a lesbian outside the bedroom?


My sis is gay, I am 100% diffrent than her. I am not sexual in public ,she is. She lost her buisness over it and her girlfriend could not stand to have my sis be arround me, I'm not a lib,they are. They moved to fla. Gays have been out forever, I went and visted a gay friend in SF Haight Ashbery, many years ago and my sis used to live in Key West, my Brother lives there now.(I go there fishing and rideing, alot) Gays are everywhere, but,no, I do not act like the ones that I see. I have far many more intrests in my life than to be thinking about my sexuality enough to be concerned what others think of it.


----------



## JeffreyD

wr said:


> Which gays have spoken here on this matter? I think you may have extrapolated incorrectly.
> 
> I haven't seen any gay men walking down my street dressed as you indicated you feel they do nor have I seen any on the streets of any of the cities I've been in so I'm just not seeing it as a rampant trend and obviously you're not either if you had to search the internet rather than your local paper for such information.
> 
> You selected something for shock value and expected folks to rise to the bait but realistically, you know that two guys in a parade have no bearing on someone's desire to marry nor is it common attire for the gay community.


Well come on over to West Los Angeles, or Hollyweird, or Frisco, or Greenwich Village, the experience will change your perception.


----------



## Patchouli

7thswan said:


> Gays can say what ever they want about people that are not like them, how would they know and why should I think their opinion is more valuable than mine. I do not go arround obsessing about my sexuality enough to do any of the things I see "others" do, and I say others because I'm adding in the Bruce Jenner types/gays/cross dressers/fetishes/ect.


Really so you never do your hair, wear make-up, stay in shape, wear pretty dresses and such to make your husband happy? Because that would be flaunting your sexuality.


----------



## susieneddy

painterswife said:


> Do you really believe that Bruce Jenner a republican is getting transgender as part of some plan by Obama?


You know that Conservative Republications couldn't handle knowing that gays/lesbians,crossdressers or transvestite could be Republicans :runforhills:


----------



## HDRider

Patchouli said:


> Fortunately generations younger than yours are more *enlightened*.


There's a word. Such a nice word. It has so many meanings. Your meaning and mine are as different as we are.


----------



## HDRider

Patchouli said:


> Really so you never do your hair, wear make-up, stay in shape, wear pretty dresses and such to make your husband happy? Because that would be flaunting your sexuality.


You and your silly questions.


----------



## 7thswan

painterswife said:


> I am falling for nothing. I think you have a ridiculous conspiracy theory going there that makes no sense. You can tell me and anyone else you want over and over but it will not make it a reality.
> 
> Do you really believe that Bruce Jenner a republican is getting transgender as part of some plan by Obama?


Go read some books off of amazon if you don't belive me. O is fulilling eyerything we have said he wants,now we are expecting the riots. Revolution. And no, BJ has nothing to do with this. The media, they are so messed up, I don't pay enough attention to them to guess ,but I do know they are too lib slanted.


----------



## 7thswan

HDRider said:


> There's a word. Such a nice word. It has so many meanings. Your meaning and mine are as different as we are.


I like the word indoctrinated , made easy with the help of ADD drugs.


----------



## painterswife

7thswan said:


> Go read some books off of amazon if you don't belive me. O is fulilling eyerything we have said he wants,now we are expecting the riots. Revolution. And no, BJ has nothing to do with this. The media, they are so messed up, I don't pay enough attention to them to guess ,but I do know they are too lib slanted.


Read some conspiracy theory books that must be true because they are on Amazon? Are you trying to punk us again?


----------



## 7thswan

painterswife said:


> Read some conspiracy theory books that must be true because they are on Amazon? Are you trying to punk us again?


Naw, Hon, We got punked when o was put in office the first time, and I had Nothing to do with that.


----------



## Tiempo

JeffreyD said:


> Well come on over to West Los Angeles, or Hollyweird, or Frisco, or Greenwich Village, the experience will change your perception.


I've lived in all four of those places and my perception is very different than yours


----------



## Irish Pixie

7thswan said:


> My sis is gay, I am 100% diffrent than her. I am not sexual in public ,she is. She lost her buisness over it and her girlfriend could not stand to have my sis be arround me, I'm not a lib,they are. They moved to fla. Gays have been out forever, I went and visted a gay friend in SF Haight Ashbery, many years ago and my sis used to live in Key West, my Brother lives there now.(I go there fishing and rideing, alot) Gays are everywhere, but,no, I do not act like the ones that I see. I have far many more intrests in my life than to be thinking about my sexuality enough to be concerned what others think of it.


I have a good friend that is a lesbian. She is conservative, Republican and has never had any type of PDA with her partner. She doesn't think that PDAs (gay or straight) are inappropriate. They've been together for 15+ years. I have many other gay friends and acquaintances that are the same way, not the political views but the PDA. I have straight friends that are anti PDA as well.

I'll bet dollars to donuts that there are more gay people like my friend rather than like your perception of your sister.

You still haven't answered my question.


----------



## kasilofhome

Jolly said:


> I'm sorry, but that's not their position. Not as I see it.
> 
> The comments on this thread alone, about our two gay paraders, speak volumes about how different some gays wish to be...and still be considered "normal".





chamoisee said:


> It's not a sin. Or rather, WE don't consider it sin. Go read your bible again. Gluttony. Do you have a problem with going to all you can eat buffets and watching people sin by pigging out? Sloth. Do you avoid consorting with couch potatoes?
> 
> There ARE things that I consider sins. Rampant waste, for example. Still, I have to drive by and watch other people throw away perfectly good things. How dare they make me an unwilling accomplice!
> 
> And war! I'm a pacifist, but not only do I have to suffer with seeing people who have killed others get celebrated as heroes, but also, my tax dollars go to helping to drop landmines on poor countries, where children not so different from my own will pick them up and be blown to smithereens or maimed for life. I have to pay to kill *children* even though it goes against everything I believe in. That is being an unwilling accomplice.
> 
> Unless someone is lassoing you into a gay pride parade and forcing a sign into your hand, you aren't being forced to be an accomplice to what *you* consider to be a sin.





I have the burden because I know it is sin. Thus I deal with it. Due solely to the fact that deviants are try darn hard to normalize such behavior I am put in the position to be silent or speak out.... when good people remain silent evil grows.

As for the bunny trail of other sins... I am not being distracted ...not taking the bait. Sorry someone lead you astray.


----------



## JeffreyD

Tiempo said:


> I've lived in all four of those places and my perception is very different than yours


Well of course it is! I just look at the faces of the tourists that come here. It's not a look of admiration. The phrase I hear most often is "sure glad we don't live here, it's too freaky".

You lived here for how long? I've been a left coaster all my life.


----------



## 7thswan

Patchouli said:


> Really so you never do your hair, wear make-up, stay in shape, wear pretty dresses and such to make your husband happy? Because that would be flaunting your sexuality.


No. I do what I do to make myself happy. I'm not responsible for my hubby's happyness. I guess he just likes me the way I am. I certianly don't flaunt what I might be doing sexualy -in public.


----------



## Patchouli

7thswan said:


> No. I do what I do to make myself happy. I'm not responsible for my hubby's happyness. I guess he just likes me the way I am. I certianly don't flaunt what I might be doing sexualy -in public.


That's funny because I seem to remember you frequently taking pokes at other women's looks and touting yourself as making an effort to look attractive.


----------



## 7thswan

Irish Pixie said:


> I have a good friend that is a lesbian. She is conservative, Republican and has never had any type of PDA with her partner. She doesn't think that PDAs (gay or straight) are appropriate. They've been together for 15+ years. I have many other gay friends and acquaintances that are the same way, not the political views but the PDA. I have straight friends that are anti PDA as well.
> 
> I'll bet dollars to donuts that there are more gay people like my friend rather than like your perception of your sister.
> 
> You still haven't answered my question.


Am I different, that question? We are all diffrent, everyone of us. So what.


----------



## 7thswan

Patchouli said:


> That's funny because I seem to remember you frequently taking pokes at other women's looks and touting yourself as making an effort to look attractive.


You know nothing about me. Being attractive has it's downfalls, but I'm certianly not going to look up to a person that has no self control. That is the point when I make a comment about what spews from a cottage cheeze rear that cant even muster up the gumsion to go on a diet/workout or leave a cheating husband.


----------



## wr

JeffreyD said:


> Well come on over to West Los Angeles, or Hollyweird, or Frisco, or Greenwich Village, the experience will change your perception.


I've been to southern California a couple times and while I have not seen what you describe, I can say that the beach attire in your state was somewhat shocking. I'm guessing there are no mirrors in change rooms there.


----------



## painterswife

7thswan said:


> You know nothing about me. Being attractive has it's downfalls, but I'm certianly not going to look up to a person that has no self control. That is the point when I make a comment about what spews from a cottage cheeze rear that cant even muster up the gumsion to go on a diet/workout or leave a cheating husband.


Why do you continue that name calling? Does it give you pleasure to body shame other women?


----------



## 7thswan

wr said:


> I've been to southern California a couple times and while I have not seen what you describe, I can say that the beach attire in your state was somewhat shocking. I'm guessing there are no mirrors in change rooms there.


Ohy, you need to go google "the people of walmarts".


----------



## Patchouli

7thswan said:


> You know nothing about me. Being attractive has it's downfalls, but I'm certianly not going to look up to a person that has no self control. That is the point when I make a comment about what spews from a cottage cheeze rear that cant even muster up the gumsion to go on a diet/workout or leave a cheating husband.


I only know what you post. If you think Michelle Obama has no self control or work out program all I can say is you are sadly confused. And if you think insulting a woman in her late 60's for being a bit pudgy is cool all I can say is how sad and judgmental is that. But the reality is it has everything to do with politics. You have an insatiable need to bring every single topic around to Obama is destroying the world and Liberals are all fat, ugly, gay and evil. Sigh.....


----------



## wr

7thswan said:


> You know nothing about me. Being attractive has it's downfalls, but I'm certianly not going to look up to a person that has no self control. That is the point when I make a comment about what spews from a cottage cheeze rear that cant even muster up the gumsion to go on a diet/workout or leave a cheating husband.


Why does she have to leave her husband? I know a few folks who have gotten past an infidelity issue and technically, I believe there are some who strongly believe that divorce is not an option. 

My butt is a bit cottage cheese-ish right now and do you have the right to make snap judgments about it? Do you also have the right to assume that because I drag one foot a bit when I walk that I'm too lazy to pick it up? 

What would give you the right to judge someone else's marriage or their physical condition? I thought something like that would be against your faith.


----------



## JeffreyD

wr said:


> I've been to southern California a couple times and while I have not seen what you describe, I can say that the beach attire in your state was somewhat shocking. I'm guessing there are no mirrors in change rooms there.


No mirrors. Even if there were, some folks don't care. :yuck: Venice Beach is by far the most interesting, but I'm a surfer, so I go where the best waves are, Sunset Cliffs now! (The shelf is constantly changing, so do the best surf spots) I haven't seen a changing room for decades, I do remember them though. The reality is that there's real just no need for them anymore, they turned into drugie and bum homes. It IS amazing to see what folks think look good on them!


----------



## 7thswan

painterswife said:


> Why do you continue that name calling? Does it give you pleasure to body shame other women?


Ummm, because it was the point of what she asked me. I explained.


----------



## Irish Pixie

7thswan said:


> Am I different, that question? We are all diffrent, everyone of us. So what.


Still won't? That's OK, I really didn't think you would.


----------



## painterswife

7thswan said:


> Ummm, because it was the point of what she asked me. I explained.


So because she asked you about looks, you took the opportunity to again name call and body shame. I believe you could have answered with out the doing that.

Why do you name call and body shame?


----------



## JeffreyD

Irish Pixie said:


> Still won't? That's OK, I really didn't think you would.


I didn't think you would answer any of mine, you proved me right....again!!!

You said you weren't a hypocrite, but yet you prove it once again! I'll spell it out for ya since you appear to have a hard time with comprehension. 

You won't answer questions from other folks, but chastise them for not answering all of yours.


----------



## Irish Pixie

JeffreyD said:


> I didn't think you would answer any of mine, you proved me right....again!!!


Wasn't that a week ago? Let it go.

ETA. Great. Now I have Elsa's song from Frozen stuck in my head...


----------



## 7thswan

wr said:


> Why does she have to leave her husband? I know a few folks who have gotten past an infidelity issue and technically, I believe there are some who strongly believe that divorce is not an option.
> 
> My butt is a bit cottage cheese-ish right now and do you have the right to make snap judgments about it? Do you also have the right to assume that because I drag one foot a bit when I walk that I'm too lazy to pick it up?
> 
> What would give you the right to judge someone else's marriage or their physical condition? I thought something like that would be against your faith.


My faith? It's horrible what she has done to cover up all the other women in bills life,she has hurt those women. He is a serial cheater and from the looks of it she stays for politics and the $,not to mention the power. We do not need people like her in politics, can't we just have someone with a bit of class and intelligence instead of just a D next to their name.


----------



## 7thswan

Irish Pixie said:


> Still won't? That's OK, I really didn't think you would.


Goes to prove I guess, were all diffrent and I don't know what the heck you are asking if it wasn't what I awnsered.


----------



## painterswife

7thswan said:


> My faith? It's horrible what she has done to cover up all the other women in bills life,she has hurt those women. He is a serial cheater and from the looks of it she stays for politics and the $,not to mention the power. We do not need people like her in politics, can't we just have someone with a bit of class and intelligence instead of just a D next to their name.


If women slept with Bill it is their own problem. It is Hilary's marriage and her decision alone how she deals with it.


----------



## Irish Pixie

7thswan said:


> My faith? It's horrible what she has done to cover up all the other women in bills life,she has hurt those women. He is a serial cheater and from the looks of it she stays for politics and the $,not to mention the power. We do not need people like her in politics, can't we just have someone with a bit of class and intelligence instead of just a D next to their name.


How is that remotely any of your business? It's between the two people in the marriage. Not you, not me, not anyone but those two. 

Further, that gives you the right to call her names and body shame her? Seriously?


----------



## JeffreyD

Irish Pixie said:


> Wasn't that a week ago? Let it go.
> 
> ETA. Great. Now I have Elsa's song from Frozen stuck in my head...


Let it go...great rebuttal. ound:


----------



## Irish Pixie

7thswan said:


> Goes to prove I guess, were all diffrent and I don't know what the heck you are asking if it wasn't what I awnsered.


I said, What is the difference between you and a lesbian out of what is done in a bedroom. 

We are all different but we are also all women.


----------



## 7thswan

painterswife said:


> So because she asked you about looks, you took the opportunity to again name call and body shame. I believe you could have answered with out the doing that.
> 
> Why do you name call and body shame?


What is this "body shame" ,is that a grade school phrase? Would you listen to your Dr. if he told you to quit smokeing while he took a drag off a cigarett? Hillary is a joke,so people joke about her. Man , the dryer must twist up some people's pantys, time to go comando.


----------



## Irish Pixie

JeffreyD said:


> Let it go...great rebuttal. ound:


I tailor my responses to the poster I'm responding to.


----------



## painterswife

7thswan said:


> What is this "body shame" ,is that a grade school phrase? Would you listen to your Dr. if he told you to quit smokeing while he took a drag off a cigarett? Hillary is a joke,so people joke about her. Man , the dryer must twist up some people's pantys, time to go comando.


Body shaming- putting someone down by make remarks about their body. Something you do all the time. Still trying to understand what you get out of doing that.

If Hilary is awful I would think you could come up with better ways to put her down.


----------



## Jolly

Patchouli said:


> So it's okay for them to wear skimpy clothes and dance that way so long as you know them and can vouch for them being decent girls. I am sure all the gay guys in the pics posted here have family members who love them and can vouch for them too. And they probably are intelligent and have good careers too. Your post really proves that we only fear what we do not know and understand.


Excuse me, you're projecting again. 

How do you know how they dance? You attend any LSU ballgames?

And their clothes? Custom-tailored, so as to not slip or ride up. Girls own their suits, as they are so custom-fitted, they will fit no one else.


----------



## Irish Pixie

Jolly said:


> Excuse me, you're projecting again.
> 
> How do you know how they dance? You attend any LSU ballgames?
> 
> And their clothes? Custom-tailored, so as to not slip or ride up. Girls own their suits, as they are so custom-fitted, they will fit no one else.


No, I do believe she caught what you were throwing. Cheerleaders, dancers, etc... are all sleazy unless they happen to be in your area. Loud and clear.


----------



## 7thswan

Irish Pixie said:


> I said, What is the difference between you and a lesbian out of what is done in a bedroom.
> 
> We are all different but we are also all women.


Must be something, clue me in. Hormones? It's pretty hard for me to imagine going to the grocery store and checking out another womans body lustfully.


----------



## Jolly

painterswife said:


> So because she asked you about looks, you took the opportunity to again name call and body shame. I believe you could have answered with out the doing that.
> 
> Why do you name call and body shame?


At least she didn't say lesbian is a code word for ugly woman. Or that most lesbians are ugly.

That would have rolled over into name calling...


----------



## Jolly

Irish Pixie said:


> No, I do believe she caught what you were throwing. Cheerleaders, dancers, etc... are all sleazy unless they happen to be in your area. Loud and clear.


Sometimes, one has to feel like the Tucker character in _Rush Hour_:


----------



## Irish Pixie

7thswan said:


> Must be something, clue me in. Hormones? It's pretty hard for me to imagine going to the grocery store and checking out another womans body lustfully.


Do you understand what "outside the bedroom" means? I'll help you- nonsexually. 

I'm straight and can appreciate another woman's body.


----------



## Irish Pixie

Jolly said:


> Sometimes, one has to feel like the Tucker character in _Rush Hour_:


No. That's not rude at all.


----------



## kasilofhome

7thswan said:


> My faith? It's horrible what she has done to cover up all the other women in bills life,she has hurt those women. He is a serial cheater and from the looks of it she stays for politics and the $,not to mention the power. We do not need people like her in politics, can't we just have someone with a bit of class and intelligence instead of just a D next to their name.


THAT WAS JUST ANOTHER LOST BATTLE OVERLOOKED ON THE REAL WAR ON WOMEN.


The used up spend and verified women by Clinton.... oh, well binders full will contacts of skilled women to got to to work is evil.


----------



## Patchouli

Jolly said:


> Excuse me, you're projecting again.
> 
> How do you know how they dance? You attend any LSU ballgames?
> 
> And their clothes? Custom-tailored, so as to not slip or ride up. Girls own their suits, as they are so custom-fitted, they will fit no one else.


Youtube is an awesome thing.....

Nothing sexy here: [ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ybVCj_294ok[/ame]


----------



## 7thswan

painterswife said:


> Body shaming- putting someone down by make remarks about their body. Something you do all the time. Still trying to understand what you get out of doing that.
> 
> If Hilary is awful I would think you could come up with better ways to put her down.


eh, I'd rather ignore her , as I said she's a joke, yes, people joke about what a joke she is. nothing so much about body shaming but she puts herself out there and it's pretty hard to take her seriously,so people joke arround.Jokeing arround takes the edge off of how doomed we are. Just anyone in a real serious prediciment, they sometimes find a stupid thing to kidd about.


----------



## Irish Pixie

7thswan said:


> eh, I'd rather ignore her , as I said she's a joke, yes, people joke about what a joke she is. nothing so much about body shaming but she puts herself out there and it's pretty hard to take her seriously,so people joke arround.Jokeing arround takes the edge off of how doomed we are. Just anyone in a real serious prediciment, they sometimes find a stupid thing to kidd about.


Why don't you ignore her? You rant and rave and go on about her looks constantly. She's a flippin' politician! Putting yourself out there is the main category of the job.

You are spinning like a top right now.


----------



## Irish Pixie

Patchouli said:


> Youtube is an awesome thing.....
> 
> Nothing sexy here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ybVCj_294ok


You're right. That's about staid and uptight as a Victorian promenade.


----------



## 7thswan

Irish Pixie said:


> Do you understand what "outside the bedroom" means? I'll help you- nonsexually.
> 
> I'm straight and can appreciate another woman's body.


Oh, I'm straight and women are the most beautiful "thing" on the plantet,,,,
Outside the bedroom. OK, all the actions a person has to do to get another person INTO the bedroom. I'm not sure if a gays courtship is diffrent than a straight couple. I have no idea, am I supposed to?


----------



## FeralFemale

http://townhall.com/columnists/jpmo...vs-gay-rights-not-mutually-exclusive-n2004033

Not to get all Rodney King on you but...But here is a rather reasonable article about compromise regarding the gay marriage issue.


----------



## Irish Pixie

7thswan said:


> Oh, I'm straight and women are the most beautiful "thing" on the plantet,,,,
> Outside the bedroom. OK, all the actions a person has to do to get another person INTO the bedroom. I'm not sure if a gays courtship is diffrent than a straight couple. I have no idea, am I supposed to?


Considering gays are people I suggest you think about how a person "courts" and go from there. 

Are you saying that all gays want to do is to have sex? Seriously? Do all you just want to do is have sex? I understand it would be hetro... 

Believe it or not, not all lesbians would want you or me or lots of lesbians. You've said you've been hit on a lot by gay women but I'm beginning to think that maybe they just said,"Hi, how ya doing?" or something equally innocuous.


----------



## 7thswan

Irish Pixie said:


> Why don't you ignore her? You rant and rave and go on about her looks constantly. She's a flippin' politician! Putting yourself out there is the main category of the job.
> 
> You are spinning like a top right now.


Spinning, huh. Ya , I know she's a politician, that's the bad part. She's put herself out there-and people are ok with her kind.


----------



## Patchouli

Irish Pixie said:


> You're right. That's about staid and uptight as a Victorian promenade.


Yeah they had best not march in a parade in Jolly's town they might get put in the stocks.


----------



## Irish Pixie

7thswan said:


> Spinning, huh. Ya , I know she's a politician, that's the bad part. She's put herself out there-and people are ok with her kind.


Was/is she supposed to campaign from a dark room?


----------



## 7thswan

Irish Pixie said:


> Considering gays are people I suggest you think about how a person "courts" and go from there.
> 
> Are you saying that all gays want to do is to have sex? Seriously? Do all you just want to do is have sex? I understand it would be hetro...
> 
> Believe it or not, not all lesbians would want you or me or lots of lesbians. You've said you've been hit on a lot by gay women but I'm beginning to think that maybe they just said,"Hi, how ya doing?" or something equally innocuous.


I have no clue what they think. Maybe you just want to entrap me into some kind of awnser that you can just rag about.Have no idea and if you are trying to understand what someone else thinks on a subject , your tactic isn't working on the likes of me, I've dealt with far tougher bullys than you.
Gay women seemed to like to put their hands on me, I can guess at the reasons, but I'm not going to talk about that on the internet.


----------



## no really

FeralFemale said:


> http://townhall.com/columnists/jpmo...vs-gay-rights-not-mutually-exclusive-n2004033
> 
> Not to get all Rodney King on you but...But here is a rather reasonable article about compromise regarding the gay marriage issue.


Good article with some excellent points.


----------



## 7thswan

Irish Pixie said:


> Was/is she supposed to campaign from a dark room?


She should be ashamed of herself, she's just another 2 bit crook.


----------



## Irish Pixie

7thswan said:


> I have no clue what they think. Maybe you just want to entrap me into some kind of awnser that you can just rag about.Have no idea and if you are trying to understand what someone else thinks on a subject , your tactic isn't working on the likes of me, I've dealt with far tougher bullys than you.
> Gay women seemed to like to put their hands on me, I can guess at the reasons, but I'm not going to talk about that on the internet.


I'm not trying to "entrap" you, not at all. I want you to admit that gays are just people like the rest of us. Not perfect, not evil, not even different outside the bedroom, just people. 

If a lesbian truly put her hands on you then you have every right to be mad- at that lesbian. Not all of them. It would be like me hating all men because my ex husband was a um not a nice person.


----------



## Nevada

7thswan said:


> I have no clue what they think. Maybe you just want to entrap me into some kind of awnser that you can just rag about.Have no idea and if you are trying to understand what someone else thinks on a subject , your tactic isn't working on the likes of me, I've dealt with far tougher bullys than you.
> Gay women seemed to like to put their hands on me, I can guess at the reasons, but I'm not going to talk about that on the internet.


I saw Rock Hudson dying of AIDS as a turning point for people in this country understanding gays. It wasn't just the idea that AIDS could take someone so beloved from society, but also the reality that a guy like Rock Hudson wanted to be gay.

Before Rock Hudson died a lot of people had the idea that any man who would have sex with a man couldn't be very particular about his sex partners. A lot of people saw that as a sign that gay men were dangerous, since there was no limit to who he might try to have sex with (men, women, little kids, farm animals, tree stumps, you name it). Gay people were shunned because of that, because a lot of people didn't want to be near them.

But everyone knew that Rock Hudson would only have sex with a man for one reason -- because he wanted to. After all, he was not only a sex symbol but he was also famous, handsome, talented, wealthy, witty, and even fun to be around. In short, he could have sex with just about anyone he wanted.

I can't say what a lot of people are thinking about gays today. It could be just religious morals not being followed, but I suspect that a lot of prejudice from the old days still lingers.


----------



## chamoisee

kasilofhome said:


> As for the bunny trail of other sins... I am not being distracted ...not taking the bait. Sorry someone lead you astray.


No, be honest: you folks are obsessed with homosexuality and other "sins" related to sexuality. You focus on these "sins" to the exclusion of other "sins" and societal wrongs.


----------



## chamoisee

7thswan said:


> Must be something, clue me in. Hormones? It's pretty hard for me to imagine going to the grocery store and checking out another womans body lustfully.


Um....being a lesbian doesn't turn you into a man. MEN check out women's bodies lustfully, because they are visual creatures. Women, lesbian or not, tend to be less visual and more attracted to others based on emotional attachments. I'm not saying visual stuff never matters at all, but in terms of lusting, the ration of lesbians lusting after random women in grocery stores is going to be roughly the same as straight women lusting after random men in grocery stores.


----------



## MO_cows

FeralFemale said:


> http://townhall.com/columnists/jpmo...vs-gay-rights-not-mutually-exclusive-n2004033
> 
> Not to get all Rodney King on you but...But here is a rather reasonable article about compromise regarding the gay marriage issue.


A good article. Took the shrill tone down and made some good points.


----------



## wr

7thswan said:


> My faith? It's horrible what she has done to cover up all the other women in bills life,she has hurt those women. He is a serial cheater and from the looks of it she stays for politics and the $,not to mention the power. We do not need people like her in politics, can't we just have someone with a bit of class and intelligence instead of just a D next to their name.


But you retain the right to mock me as lazy because my bum may be a bit broader than you'd like, without knowing anything about me but I can assure you that gumption is not something I lack. 

My mother's dear friend was married to a womanizer and chose to stay married because of her faith and her children. Would you mock her too or would you say that she made the best of a bad situation while staying true to her faith. 

Would you accept Ms Clinton in politics if her bum were smaller and she divorced her husband and have you scrutinized the bums of male candidates?


----------



## kasilofhome

chamoisee said:


> No, be honest: you folks are obsessed with homosexuality and other "sins" related to sexuality. You focus on these "sins" to the exclusion of other "sins" and societal wrongs.


Gee, subject of thread lends itself to the focus of.... gluttony or sexual deviants. 

Bunny trail..


----------



## chamoisee

Also, since it's been brought up, there are exceptions, but generally speaking, gay and lesbian people aren't attracted to straight people any more than straight people are attracted to gays and lesbians. In other words, guys, gay men have roughly the same attraction level to you, as you have to them, or as you have to a butch lesbian. Girls, lesbians are generally as attracted to you are to them. 

Being gay or lesbian does NOT magically make one an oversexed individual who wants to screw everything with two legs. We have our 'type', just as you have your 'type', and straights tend not to be our type.


----------



## Bearfootfarm

susieneddy said:


> You know that Conservative Republications *couldn't handle knowing* that gays/lesbians,crossdressers or transvestite could be Republicans :runforhills:


I think they probably know it:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Log_Cabin_Republicans


> The Log Cabin Republicans (LCR) is an organization that works within the Republican Party to advocate equal rights for LGBT people in the United States.
> 
> The group's constituency supports the Republican Party and advocates for the rights of LGBT Americans.





> Log Cabin Republicans was *founded in 1977* in California as a rallying point for Republicans opposed to the Briggs Initiative, which attempted to ban homosexuals from teaching in public schools.
> 
> In addition to sanctioning the termination of openly gay and lesbian teachers, the proposed legislation authorized the firing of those teachers that supported homosexuality


----------



## MO_cows

Oh dear. There is a new variant in the alliance. The article FeralFemale linked referenced LBGTQ. I didn't know Q. My friend google showed it stands for queer. But, but, but queer is derogatory. We left behind the offensive "queer" and learned to say "gay" in order to be PC and remain socially acceptable. I don't get it.


----------



## kasilofhome

chamoisee said:


> Also, since it's been brought up, there are exceptions, but generally speaking, gay and lesbian people aren't attracted to straight people any more than straight people are attracted to gays and lesbians. In other words, guys, gay men have roughly the same attraction level to you, as you have to them, or as you have to a butch lesbian. Girls, lesbians are generally as attracted to you are to them.
> 
> Being gay or lesbian does NOT magically make one an oversexed individual who wants to screw everything with two legs. We have our 'type', just as you have your 'type', and straights tend not to be our type.



Why would your mind connect that thought to what's been posted. Seems the militant, publicly active ....as in actions of sex in public, what ever sex choice is what I am against. Keep your sex life private....what ever your choice...

A lot of the problems are just exhibitionist... but if your a non hetero... it's something to be proud of and were haters because we don't support it.


----------



## Bearfootfarm

> Originally Posted by kasilofhome View Post
> As for the bunny trail of other sins... I am not being distracted ...not taking the bait. Sorry someone lead you astray.


It's not a "sin" if it's not your religion.
You can't force your sins on anyone other than yourself.



> A lot of the problems are just exhibitionist... but if your a non hetero... it's something to be proud of and were haters because we don't support it.


You're a hater because you hate, which is obvious from your comments

You don't have to "support" anything you don't want to.

But by the same token you can't make everyone live by your rules, which, ironically is exactly what you are complaining about


----------



## chamoisee

MO_cows said:


> Oh dear. There is a new variant in the alliance. The article FeralFemale linked referenced LBGTQ. I didn't know Q. My friend google showed it stands for queer. But, but, but queer is derogatory. We left behind the offensive "queer" and learned to say "gay" in order to be PC and remain socially acceptable. I don't get it.


Some have reclaimed the previously pejorative word "queer". I happen to be one of them. "Lesbian" refers to one who identifies as female and is attracted to other females. "Bisexual" refers to someone who is attracted to both men and women. Neither one of those labels fits me. I identify as queer.


----------



## FeralFemale

MO_cows said:


> Oh dear. There is a new variant in the alliance. The article FeralFemale linked referenced LBGTQ. I didn't know Q. My friend google showed it stands for queer. But, but, but queer is derogatory. We left behind the offensive "queer" and learned to say "gay" in order to be PC and remain socially acceptable. I don't get it.


 I think the Q stands for questioning

ETA: the more inclusive acronym is LGBTQIA


----------



## Jolly

Patchouli said:


> Youtube is an awesome thing.....
> 
> Nothing sexy here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ybVCj_294ok


I'll take that over two guys with their butts in the breeze, anyday.


----------



## Jolly

Irish Pixie said:


> No. That's not rude at all.


If you remember the movie, Chan's character did understand, he just didn't listen.

I thought it kind of appropriate...


----------



## Jolly

Patchouli said:


> Yeah they had best not march in a parade in Jolly's town they might get put in the stocks.


Nope, they've marched before.

Send your two guys, though. The jail food is pretty good...


----------



## Jolly

Bearfootfarm said:


> It's not a "sin" if it's not your religion.
> You can't force your sins on anyone other than yourself.
> 
> 
> 
> You're a hater because you hate, which is obvious from your comments
> 
> You don't have to "support" anything you don't want to.
> 
> But by the same token you can't make everyone live by your rules, which, ironically is exactly what you are complaining about


I think folks like you do more to hurt the gay cause than anything else I can think of.

People get tired of being called haters. Or breeders.Tthere is no dialogue that way and there is absolutely no compassion or understanding. And what's really neat, the guys who were sitting on the fence, read this strident stuff and decide not to support your cause.

Keep it up, you're doing me a favor.


----------



## Jolly

_The great irony of the "gay agenda"âif that's what you want to call itâis that it actually cheapens the very people it is proposing to protect. When people obnoxiously promote their sexuality, exalt their sexuality and wholly focus on their sexuality, then what they are saying is that they are first and foremost a sexual being. _

Not a bad excerpt...

http://www.charismanews.com/opinion...-jenner-and-the-ironic-flaw-of-the-gay-agenda


----------



## Jolly

Oh, and speaking about the stridency of many who support the Gay Agenda, how about the rise of the Gaystapo?

http://pagesix.com/2015/06/11/hotel...iation/?_ga=1.236377921.1938859591.1433767322

Thou shalt toe the line...


----------



## wr

Jolly said:


> Oh, and speaking about the stridency of many who support the Gay Agenda, how about the rise of the Gaystapo?
> 
> http://pagesix.com/2015/06/11/hotel...iation/?_ga=1.236377921.1938859591.1433767322
> 
> Thou shalt toe the line...


I did a quick search and I'm kinda curious as to why Ted Cruz would want to have a meeting at a gay bar or does he often frequent them?


----------



## Jolly

wr said:


> I did a quick search and I'm kinda curious as to why Ted Cruz would want to have a meeting at a gay bar or does he often frequent them?


Cruz wasn't at a gay bar. Do a bit of reading on the subject, it was in the news quite a bit about six weeks back.

It's fascinating stuff and proof that many in the gay community will shun and castigate any gay who dares have a cup of coffee with someone that doesn't support the Gay Agenda.

And why is the first thought out of your mind that Cruz frequents gay bars?


----------



## FeralFemale

Jolly said:


> I think folks like you do more to hurt the gay cause than anything else I can think of.
> 
> People get tired of being called haters. Or breeders.Tthere is no dialogue that way and there is absolutely no compassion or understanding. And what's really neat, the guys who were sitting on the fence, read this strident stuff and decide not to support your cause.
> 
> Keep it up, you're doing me a favor.


I have to agree with this. Even as a gay rights supporter, I found myself cringing when I heard about the targeting of Christian businesses and anti marriage rights supporters who dared express their beliefs. I just can't get my head around a Christian being forced to participate in a gay wedding ceremony or having to resign from a job because of a donation to an anti gay marriage PAC. The same constitution that protects gays protects free speech and religion.

I try to remember that it is a vocal, extremist minority that makes up the 21st century PC lynch mobs that have sprung up. But they aren't doing the gay community any favors with their actions. If I can be put off by these actions, then I'm sure fence sitters are definitely put off by it. And the anti-gay faction just dig their heels in even more. 

I'm not saying that gay rights groups should just roll over. I'm just saying honey vinegar flies and all that. Appeal to people with love and with what we all have in common, not the differences. Some folks on this thread have done that, others not so much. I think it's the 'not so much' bunch that has caused this thread to go on for 30-40 pages....30-40 pages accomplishing nothing.


----------



## wr

Jolly said:


> Cruz wasn't at a gay bar. Do a bit of reading on the subject, it was in the news quite a bit about six weeks back.
> 
> It's fascinating stuff and proof that many in the gay community will shun and castigate any gay who dares have a cup of coffee with someone that doesn't support the Gay Agenda.
> 
> And why is the first thought out of your mind that Cruz frequents gay bars?


Iphones can make reading hard but I am clearly getting the point that you're kinda rabid or you may realize that while you think your little article is a major event, it didn't make any news source I follow up here. 

What's the difference between someone shunning 7thswan sister's business because she was gay or shunning someone who's having coffee in a gay bar with someone who doesn't support the 'gay agenda'. One seems just as stupid as the other but oddly enough, it must be something that amuses many because you all seem ready to fight to the death over it. 

Gay marriage has been legal in Canada for quite some time, we're fine with it and oddly enough, the world didn't end.


----------



## HDRider

Irish Pixie said:


> Do you understand what "outside the bedroom" means? I'll help you- nonsexually.
> 
> I'm straight and can appreciate another woman's body.


Me too.


----------



## Irish Pixie

7thswan said:


> WR. I did not make a personal attack. I guess libs do not want to know what a real American is all about. Go ahead and let the nasty fly against MY Americans---
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lTs6a0ORdQU
> 
> same thing but more for REAL patroits,no lydowns allowed. YOU libs have no idea who i am and my Brothers!https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sam4lq2WHos


Is that a threat? What exactly do you mean by "YOU libs have no idea who i am and my Brothers!"

ETA: I'm not watching the videos.


----------



## Jolly

wr said:


> Iphones can make reading hard but I am clearly getting the point that you're kinda rabid or you may realize that while you think your little article is a major event, it didn't make any news source I follow up here.
> 
> What's the difference between someone shunning 7thswan sister's business because she was gay or shunning someone who's having coffee in a gay bar with someone who doesn't support the 'gay agenda'. One seems just as stupid as the other but oddly enough, it must be something that amuses many because you all seem ready to fight to the death over it.
> 
> Gay marriage has been legal in Canada for quite some time, we're fine with it and oddly enough, the world didn't end.


Rabid, I'm not. I just don't roll over and play dead, when the future of my country is at stake. The U.S. is not Canada, nor do I wish it to be.

And the initial story made all the major news outlets, including The New York Times. Reisner and Weiderpass own a gay hotel in New York, and met with Cruz in their apartment, primarily discussing foreign policy.

The NYT piece:

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/04/24/u...o-strike-different-tone-toward-gays.html?_r=0

And try this one:

http://www.dnainfo.com/new-york/201...l-face-boycott-ted-cruz-meeting-with-ted-cruz

Lastly, again the link showing the retribution continues:

http://pagesix.com/2015/06/11/hotel...iation/?_ga=1.236377921.1938859591.1433767322


----------



## Irish Pixie

Jolly said:


> Rabid, I'm not. I just don't roll over and play dead, when the future of my country is at stake. The U.S. is not Canada, nor do I wish it to be.


Seriously? You _seriously_ think that gays are going to do what to the US? Take over? 

Wow. Just wow.


----------



## Jolly

Irish Pixie said:


> Is that a threat? What exactly do you mean by "YOU libs have no idea who i am and my Brothers!"
> 
> ETA: I'm not watching the videos.


Catchy tune.

Scared?:nana:


----------



## Irish Pixie

Jolly said:


> Catchy tune.
> 
> Scared?:nana:


Yes, afraid of losing IQ points. I can only imagine what it is...


----------



## chamoisee

Nobody here has used the term "breeder", or I haven't seen it at any rate. I have six children myself (YES, we CAN reproduce! LOL), and I have a number of gay and lesbian friends with kids. 

Hater? Sorry, but it's accurate. If you hate on gays, or other people, you're a hater. Unlike other epithets, "hater" is based strictly on what someone says and does. It's a voluntary decision. Here's the good news: you can choose not to hate. Moreover, you're using the bible to defend your hatred for gays, even though Jesus told you to love your neighbors, your enemies, and everyone else.


----------



## FeralFemale

Irish Pixie said:


> ETA: I'm not watching the videos.


Don't. It is loud, over the top, and filled with 'Merica. 

I loved it.

But I can totally see how others wouldn't.


----------



## HDRider

7th - That song was awesome. I tried to find it on iTunes. Cound't

I found the lyrics.

Now I live lean and I mean to inflict the grief, 
and the least of me's still out of your reach. 
The killing machine&#8217;s gonna do the deed, 
until the river runs dry and my last breath leaves. 
Chin in the air with a head held high, 
I&#8217;ll stand in the path of the enemy line. 
Feel no fear, know my pride: 
for God and Country I&#8217;ll end your life.

I&#8217;m one-of-a-kind and I&#8217;ll bring death
to the place you&#8217;re about to be: 
another river of blood runnin&#8217; under my feet. 
Forged in a fire lit long ago, stand next to me, 
you&#8217;ll never stand alone. 

http://www.thewarriorsong.com/lyrics.html

It is Kick A_ _.


----------



## wr

7thswan said:


> WR. I did not make a personal attack. I guess libs do not want to know what a real American is all about. Go ahead and let the nasty fly against MY Americans---
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lTs6a0ORdQU
> 
> same thing but more for REAL patroits,no lydowns allowed. YOU libs have no idea who i am and my Brothers!https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sam4lq2WHos


Any time you call someone a loser, it is considered a personal attack and are you calling me a lib??


----------



## Irish Pixie

HDRider said:


> 7th - That song was awesome. I tried to find it on iTunes. Cound't
> 
> I found the lyrics.
> 
> Now I live lean and I mean to inflict the grief,
> and the least of me's still out of your reach.
> The killing machineâs gonna do the deed,
> until the river runs dry and my last breath leaves.
> Chin in the air with a head held high,
> Iâll stand in the path of the enemy line.
> Feel no fear, know my pride:
> for God and Country Iâll end your life.
> 
> Iâm one-of-a-kind and Iâll bring death
> to the place youâre about to be:
> another river of blood runninâ under my feet.
> Forged in a fire lit long ago, stand next to me,
> youâll never stand alone.
> 
> http://www.thewarriorsong.com/lyrics.html
> 
> It is Kick A_ _.


Definitely a threat. A death threat against "libs" I didn't think I could be shocked, but I was wrong.


----------



## Irish Pixie

FeralFemale said:


> Don't. It is loud, over the top, and filled with 'Merica.
> 
> I loved it.
> 
> But I can totally see how others wouldn't.


Not worried about losing brain cells? I like my brain just the way it is.


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## HDRider

Irish Pixie said:


> Definitely a threat. A death threat against "libs" I didn't think I could be shocked, but I was wrong.


You take hard left angles. You lost me. I threatened you?


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## FeralFemale

Irish Pixie said:


> Definitely a threat. A death threat against "libs" I didn't think I could be shocked, but I was wrong.


You don't have context. It is a military pride vid with an uber patriotic message. 

7th, tell pixie you weren't threatening anyone. Unless you were. In which case you need a serious time out.


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## HDRider

Jolly is the other me.


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## painterswife

FeralFemale said:


> You don't have context. It is a military pride vid with an uber patriotic message.
> 
> 7th, tell pixie you weren't threatening anyone. Unless you were. In which case you need a serious time out.


Looks like a threat to me. Taken in context with everything else she has posted today including the deleted posts.


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## Irish Pixie

HDRider said:


> You take hard left angles. You lost me. I threatened you?


How the heck did you get that out of my post? Let me help- you posted the lyrics of the song that 7thswan threatened "libs" with this statement, "YOU libs have no idea who i am and my Brothers!"

I feel that, and especially now that you posted the lyrics, is a threat.


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## wr

I'm not a big fan of locking threads but I think that every possible avenue, threat and insult has been slung.


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