# scabs coming off/disbudding



## LittleRedHen (Apr 26, 2006)

I dont remember how many weeks it has been since we disbudded the doelings. I am thinking around 3-4 weeks. Today their scabs are coming off and it is nasty! On two of the girls one of their scabs on both of them is icky! it stinks and its gooey. Is this normal? It sorta reminds me of when my human babies had their umbilical cord come off. I had a hard time keeping it dry and it often would get gooey and stinky. Should I do anything for the doelings or will they be okay? I have stuff like medicated golds bond (i think that is what it is called) powder.


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## KimM (Jun 17, 2005)

LittleRedHen said:


> I dont remember how many weeks it has been since we disbudded the doelings. I am thinking around 3-4 weeks. Today their scabs are coming off and it is nasty! On two of the girls one of their scabs on both of them is icky! it stinks and its gooey. Is this normal? It sorta reminds me of when my human babies had their umbilical cord come off. I had a hard time keeping it dry and it often would get gooey and stinky. Should I do anything for the doelings or will they be okay? I have stuff like medicated golds bond (i think that is what it is called) powder.


Gold Bond medicated powder is NOT what you should use on open wounds least of all infected ones. Is there pus or is it just bloody? If it seems infected and it sounds like it is if it stinks, I'd use hydrogen peroxide and DAB with cotton balls (hold their head up - don't let it run in there eyes), gently get it cleaned out and glob on some neosporin or maybe furozone (sp?) spray. Can you post a picture of them?


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## LittleRedHen (Apr 26, 2006)

I can get some pictures yes. I flipped one of the scabs off and it didn't end up looking as bad as I thought it would be. when the scab was still on it looked a lot worse. Now its just reddish, a little fluid and a little ooze. I will get pictures up before tonight. That was just one scab on one doeling. I have 2 other potential icky scabs


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## Olivia67 (Mar 6, 2008)

Not normal at all--listen to KimM and take her advice asap!!!


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## 6e (Sep 10, 2005)

I don't know why it would have gotten infected as the disbudder should cauterize and sterilize the wound all at the same time, but it certainly sounds like it if it's stinky and gooey. There is a spray called Vetericyn that is EXCELLENT! It's kind of expensive, but the gel version that kind of sticks to the wound just can't be beat for healing and is excellent for infection. You can call around to feed stores or vet supplies and get it. It works faster and better than anything we've ever used.


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## thaiblue12 (Feb 14, 2007)

I went back and looked and you disbudded on March 8th. I am wondering if the homemade disbudder cause it? Were they the only ones you used it one? Or are the others fine?

I would not use peroxide, it is damaging. I hate to even touch it as it eats my skin. You have any Dial soap? Or Bactine? I would wash it and then if you have Furall, which is now discontinued, wonder dust or some other type of dry wound treatment I would use it. Not blood stop though that has nothing to do with healing. If they go off feed or start acting off I would take their temps and if they have one would start antibiotics.


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## KimM (Jun 17, 2005)

6e said:


> I don't know why it would have gotten infected as the disbudder should cauterize and sterilize the wound all at the same time, but it certainly sounds like it if it's stinky and gooey. *There is a spray called Vetericyn that is EXCELLENT! * It's kind of expensive, but the gel version that kind of sticks to the wound just can't be beat for healing and is excellent for infection. You can call around to feed stores or vet supplies and get it. It works faster and better than anything we've ever used.


Oh my yes, this stuff works great! Worth the money.


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## KimM (Jun 17, 2005)

thaiblue12 said:


> I went back and looked and you disbudded on March 8th. I am wondering if the homemade disbudder cause it? Were they the only ones you used it one? Or are the others fine?
> 
> I would not use peroxide, it is damaging. I hate to even touch it as it eats my skin. You have any Dial soap? Or Bactine? I would wash it and then if you have Furall, which is now discontinued, wonder dust or some other type of dry wound treatment I would use it. Not blood stop though that has nothing to do with healing. If they go off feed or start acting off I would take their temps and if they have one would start antibiotics.


Peroxide is fine and recommended when there's damaged, infected tissue. It should not be used on fresh wounds. Betadine scrub or strong iodine would work well too.

I was also wondering about the homemade disbudder - some metals when heated emit chemicals. If the bolt (I think you used) was galvinized or coated, it may have caused a problem.


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## 6e (Sep 10, 2005)

KimM said:


> Oh my yes, this stuff works great! Worth the money.


Yes it does!!! We used it on some infection on one of our horses and while I balked at the price at first, it is worth every penny and goes a long ways! I know a girl that had a hysterectomy and used that spray on herself. It's awesome stuff!


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## 6e (Sep 10, 2005)

thaiblue12 said:


> *I went back and looked and you disbudded on March 8th. I am wondering if the homemade disbudder cause it? Were they the only ones you used it one? Or are the others fine?*
> 
> I would not use peroxide, it is damaging. I hate to even touch it as it eats my skin. You have any Dial soap? Or Bactine? I would wash it and then if you have Furall, which is now discontinued, wonder dust or some other type of dry wound treatment I would use it. Not blood stop though that has nothing to do with healing. If they go off feed or start acting off I would take their temps and if they have one would start antibiotics.


I wondered that too. Perhaps, because the nut is a hole all the way through, that it's not burning the top and sides of the horn bud the way a disbudder does and so leaving it kind of open to infection? I don't know. Just thinking out loud.


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## LittleRedHen (Apr 26, 2006)

yes the homemade disbudder.
One goat is entirely fine. One goat has both of them kind of icky and the third just has one. But I have never had goats long enough to have the scabs come off so perhaps I just dont know what to expect to see? Anyways. pics will come. I am getting my children sent off with daddy to go do some work. Soon as they leave i will go take pics


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## 6e (Sep 10, 2005)

They may look normal. Ours when the scabs come off just look red. No bleeding, no oozing, no nothing. Could it be that the disbudder was cooler on some rather than others? If you're heating with a torch....maybe it got too cool between horns or something? Or who knows. May have just been a fluke.


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## LittleRedHen (Apr 26, 2006)

it only bled a bit on edges. (the part that will stay a part of the head)


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## 6e (Sep 10, 2005)

I'm sure someone will know more than I.  Good luck with them!


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## LittleRedHen (Apr 26, 2006)

well now that the head dried it looks fine i guess. I think it just looked icky when it was still wet after I took the scab off. Anyways- here is a pic of the head of the one i took the scab off and herei s the head of the doe I think has good scabs going. She was about a week older than the other one and had much bigger buds.



















and the last one is my third doeling.. with her scab half off. You can see it bled a little. But I think that is because my 12 yr old daughter messed with it a little prematurely.. but this is the one that was a bit stinky. its not stinky anymore because it dried


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## coso (Feb 24, 2004)

Looks pretty normal to me :goodjob:


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## LittleRedHen (Apr 26, 2006)

now that the scab is half off- should i make sure the rest comes off or wait for it? (this reminds me of my days of hatching baby chicks in the incubator lol)


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## coso (Feb 24, 2004)

I would just let it do it's thing. I never pick at mine.


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## LittleRedHen (Apr 26, 2006)

thanks! i figured its probably like hatching chicks... patience!

I knew a woman who didn't flick the cap off a buckling when she disbudded and it never came off- the goat had scurred badly. i know this is a little different because its the scab but I had to make sure.


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## thaiblue12 (Feb 14, 2007)

Picture 2 looks normal to me but 1 and 3 do not. I have had 40+ kids disbudded over the past 4 years and I have not seen that before. Mine heal up and never had that happen. Maybe it is normal but I have not personally seen it. 

I would not pick at it and keep a close eye on it. I really would wash it with something and if they re-scab leave it be.


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## 6e (Sep 10, 2005)

I have to agree. 2 is what ours look like, not 1 or 3. 1 would worry me just because it crosses the whole head, but I don't know. I never pick at the scabs. I just let them come off themselves in due time. Eventually they come off and they're all healed underneath. I would be afraid of picking at them as then the wound is open to the air and to infection. With the scab they're protected from bacteria.


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## LittleRedHen (Apr 26, 2006)

I just came in from checking on the girls (since dizzy is in labor) and the goat in #2 pic had her scab pop off one side while she ate her hay. I think she will have to be re-disbudded. She has a blood horn bud (much smaller than the one that came off on the scab) I will wait for the other one tos ee what it does but I think she will have to be redone. On this goat hubby didn't seer the spot directly as much (the bump) so it is possible he underdid her. I made sure he did the other two better. #1 goat in this pic has it nice and flat and i see no signs whatsoever of a bud. It just looks like scar tissue.


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## LittleRedHen (Apr 26, 2006)

btw i think the scab was across the whole head because of the nut we used to disbud. It was a thick nut which covered a larger surface than a regular disbudder. They were done at like 3 weeks old so their heads werent very large either which means the nut would have overlapped the middle section when he went from one bud to the other


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## coso (Feb 24, 2004)

Three weeks is way too long to disbud for me. Five to seven days is when I usually do mine.


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## LittleRedHen (Apr 26, 2006)

Its been a learning experience! I was under impression due to former friend that goats didn't get disbudded til their buds were about an inch long (around 6-8 week mark) I figured out less than 24 hours before we disbudded them that she was an idiot  though it explains why most of her goats end up with scurs. Dizzys kids will be disbudded around a week old


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## coonripper (Jan 8, 2009)

I had mine done by the vet last year at 4 weeks old, He knocked them out and did his thing. Looked great with no issues and only cost me 21.00 for three goats


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## LoneStrChic23 (Jul 30, 2010)

coonripper said:


> I had mine done by the vet last year at 4 weeks old, He knocked them out and did his thing. Looked great with no issues and only cost me 21.00 for three goats



Wow... I want your vet. Mine charged $22.50 to redo Sam, and did nothing different other than use a custom tip he made that was 1" and better fit Sam's head. No meds, nothing other than quick burns and goodbye. Still don't know if Sam's head is done & scur free our if I have to take him back


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## CaliannG (Apr 29, 2005)

Let me get this straight, to see if I have things in order:

1. You made a home-made disbudder and used a flippin' torch to heat it to disbud your kids...
2. You waited WEEKS longer than you should have to disbud, as if it is going to be done, it should be done between 5-10 DAYS.... not 3-4 WEEKS.
3. In another thread, you mention that you are skimping on the milk you give your kids because you can't afford for them to drink more.
4. Your kids have OBVIOUS infections from your attempt to disbud them, far too late, with your homemade disbudder....
5. And now you are talking about attempting to disbud them AGAIN because the first attempt, that was done too late to take anyway, and then done with a bolt heated with a blow torch, didn't do the job?

Have I got this information right? Do you just love to hear the sound of goat kids screaming in pain? Because that is ALL you are going to achieve from attempting to disbud them AGAIN at this late date. 

And to add to this, you plan on getting even MORE goats?


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## LittleRedHen (Apr 26, 2006)

1- *yep*
2.- *not intentionally*. They weren't all 3-4 weeks. the younger two were 2 1/2 weeks and the older one was in the 3 week range yes. But that was due to lack of information. Future kids that are going to be disbudded will be disbudded during their first week. This is a learning experience- I know no one who has it all right the first time.
3. *Yes-* during this time frame when the doelings were younger My husband lost his job two weeks after purchasing them. I fed them what I could in milk but at $3 a gallon I cannot afford 3-4 times a day feedings at 20-32 oz. Kudos to those who could I made my human children my priority. My husband is now back to working but i am not going to suddenly take them from low amounts to high amounts because I am not going to have them scouring. they are drinking more now but they are still not having 32 oz a feeding.
4- *No,* they are not having infections. I thought they were but I think it is more from my daughter trying to prematurely get the scabs off. I do believe we did not put enough heat to the direct bud on #2- the older goat. so yes she will have to have it done again. Pleasurable for me? no.. but I have read on here time and time again where people have disbudded a 2nd time just as soon as they have discovered they need it. The buds are small if they exist at all- its dried and scabbed again so i will not mess with it right now. the bump is less than 1/8th of an inch. If you want to judge me on that- i hope you judge anyone who does so. The oldest goat just barely turned 7 weeks old. This is the age my ex friend only disbuds hers the first time. She is a 4H leader and this is what she teaches all of the families under her. I had no reason to question her until I read on here where someone showed a video of disbudding a week old Buckling and therefore I asked more questions!
5. How is this any different than using a iron bought from Hoeggars? Would it be more sterile if I dipped the iron in a fire?

and in the end yes- i am getting more. All 3 of them are being purchased upon the date of being weaned. Both doelings are being disbudded by the current breeder and the buck is being left with horns. 

Any more questions? your animosity doesn't bother me any. I know my situation and did the best I could with what i had. I have never had a single animal that I didn't have a learning curve on. I have never had anything in life where I was a "natural" at it. But the difference between me and others is I don't give up just because I messed it up. I learn from my mistakes, dust myself off and figure out to do it better next time. 

Have a great day Caliann  i know I am


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## CaliannG (Apr 29, 2005)

~smiles~ I am having a wonderful day. Just making sure. Are you answering "Yes" to question #5, in that you are going to attempt this on them yet again, even though you now know that the first time you tried this, they were too old to disbud properly?

The difference between using a disbudding iron that was engineered and manufactured for the job that it is doing, and an iron bolt that is heated with a blow-torch, is that the disbudding iron holds the correct temperature for the job, neither too hot, nor too cold...and continues to re-heat DURING the job, rather than just cooling off and not GETTING the job done.

:shrug: However, some people don't learn from their learning curves. The supposed definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again, but expecting a different result.

If there is pus, it is infected. High school biology.

It's really nice to rationalize that it is "just a learning curve" instead of investing the money (for the proper equipment....even when disbudding first came into fashion over a half a century ago, they didn't use the equivalent of a poorly made branding iron to get it done!) and time (get someone to teach you how to do it RIGHT, with the RIGHT equipment, before you go off to do it your own way) to learn about the procedure.

~smiles~ And really, you shouldn't flatter yourself too much by thinking that I am all angry and huffy, and this thread is going to ruin my day. ~chuckles~ I learned quite some time ago that I can't save the world from all the idiots in it, nor save the innocents from the stupid, so I just don't even try anymore. Just making sure YOU know the consequences of your actions.

Disbudding those kids again, even if you bought the most expensive disbudding iron in the world, is not going to get rid of the horns and scurs they are going to have. Therefore, if you attempt to repeat the procedure, the only thing you will accomplish is torturing your goats.

If you are into that sort of thing.... :shrug: Nothing *I* can do about it.


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