# How to treat for worms and cow flies naturally?



## Bisket11 (May 6, 2010)

I just bought two heifers,they are three years old. I want to raise them as naturally as possible. What can I use for face flies and wormer? I have had horses for years but hardly know anything about cows.


----------



## oldtimer (Dec 12, 2010)

Bisket,

I just bought two heifers, they are three years old. I want to raise them as naturally as possible. What can I use for face flies


> I only know of to natural ways to treat flies and external parasites.
> 1. Is cedar trees
> And
> 2. Is diesel fuel
> ...


----------



## genebo (Sep 12, 2004)

Face flies hatch from manure and wet areas. Keeping those to a minimum is important. Muscovy ducks, chickens and guineas help to keep fly populations down. Fly predators are sold on the web. They do a pretty good job on face flies and horn flies for a while.

Cattle get worms from eating them off of grass stems. Using rotational grazing to keep your cattle always grazing grass that is 6" tall or more helps a lot. Running goats and cattle on the same pasture helps to decrease the worm load on the pasture. When goats eat the cattle worms, it kills those worms. Same thing the other way around, so the goats and cattle help each other.

Food grade diatomaceous earth added to their feed helps to keep worms down to a degree.

Pyrethrin is a natural organic insecticide that is useful to kill and repel face and horn flies. 

Permethrin is an artificial chemical insecticide that is similar in action to pyrethrin. It is poorly absorbed through skin, so is somewhat safe to spray on cattle. It is widely used and readily found.

Use a back rubber suspended near cattle loafing areas or water. Charge it with either pyrethrin or permethrin. Add diesel fuel to increase the effectiveness of the insecticides. The diesel fuel has some insecticidal properties and helps to waterproof the other insecticides.

My vet told me to count the flies on each cow. If the number is 50 or less, ignore them.

Good luck. Let us know what works best for you.

If you come up with a good control for horseflies, and other big biting flies, please share that with us.

Genebo
Paradise Farm


----------



## springvalley (Jun 23, 2009)

First of all how can some of you say Diesel fuel as a natural fly or wormer control?>? What is up with that???
Genbo is correct with the food grade Diatomaceous Earth, it will work as good as most anything as a wormer, you could also use it as a dust on the backs of some animals. But on another note, you have to be carefull so you don`t inhale the dust yourself as it can be bad for your lungs. Also it will passs through the manure and will or can kill earthworms in the soil if they come in contact with it. Another natural wormer is Black Walnut leaves and nut shucks, but this will or can kill horses also, so keep it away from them. Another short lived fly spray is vinegar lightly sprayed on the face and backs of cattle, won`t last long, but works best on dairy cattle in the barn at milking time. So next time some of you suggest a oil based product as natural, please think about that a bit first. > Thanks Marc


----------



## trbizwiz (Mar 26, 2010)

I tried the vinegar this year in a 3 cc syringe. I cant say it made any difference one way or the other. It did seem to make the cows mad.


----------



## oldtimer (Dec 12, 2010)

Marc,

Diesel fuel is a natural substance as it is foungd in and on the earth in its natural state as crude oil. 
Through hydro-cracking refining crude oil can now be refined to99% pure and is used in everything from lipstick to tooth paste.
Diesel fuel comes off at about 65% (?) pure.
See: 


> Ultra-low sulfur diesel (ULSD) is a standard for defining diesel fuel with substantially lowered sulfur contents. As of 2007, almost every diesel fuel available in America and Europe is the ULSD type. In the UK, diesel is commonly abbreviated DERV, standing for Diesel Engined Road Vehicle (fuel).


If you have an objection to using diesel fuel on your live stock then you must also be against ethanol by-products and the use of corn gluten feed stock because it has the very same sulfur in it that was removed from crude oil to make Ultra-low sulfur diesel.
Which is the less of the two evils?
Occasionally putting a light spray of diesel on your animals for fly control or feeding sulfur in massive amounts daily over a long period of time to your animals? 

If you object to putting a fly spray/diesel mix on your animals and you are in a barn situation, soak a heavy cotton string/cord in the mix then hang the string anywhere in the barn where it will not drip on the animals or in milk.
I have used cup hooks screwed in the ceiling every 3 feet the full length of the barn to run the soaked string/cord through/over.

Have you ever seen a mosquito control fogger truck/helicopter go down your street or overhead? Do you know what makes the fog? 
Have you ever smelled one?
See:[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7nbAOe4LQtI&feature=related[/ame] [ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P1CyjYDgkAI[/ame]
[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xdBE1kZ0REg&feature=related[/ame]

Yep, that&#8217;s diesel fuel and its used world wide!

OT


----------



## springvalley (Jun 23, 2009)

Well Oldtimer, We run as close to an

organic farm as you can. I do use Diesel fuel in my tractor and skid loader but thats about it. And I havn`t used lipstick in years, and neither does my wife. And we don`t mosquito spray out this far from town. And I don`t think you remember last week I said not to use grain by products, but thats a differant thread all togeather. I`m not a big one for putting man made crap that is harmful to people on our animals and crops. I love to run our farm organicly and find cures for livestock that are natural. And they are out there, you may have to look but their out there. I use the natural fly traps in the barn, no chemicals in it, just drowning flies. > Thanks Marc


----------



## southerngurl (May 11, 2003)

The more healthy diet you feed the less problems you will have with these things in all animals. The addition of garlic to the diet will both cleanse the blood and deter flies and kill worms (please don't take this to mean that garlic will always kill all worms, I mean it can be used for worms, but takes experience and know how to use effectively- it is not a stand alone fix all). Also getting a good balance to your minerals. Most minerals contain iron which most livestock get in excess already. Excessive iron causes metabolic problems as well as secondary copper and zinc deficiency. Many livestock are deficient in copper. Copper is a necessary nutrient for the immune system, and a huge factor with intestinal worms. It will also make for more healthy skin, coat and feet, easier birthings, less mastitis, straighter legs, stronger tendons/ligaments, less milk fever.. the list goes on.

You can get your pasture tested and get a custom mineral made.

Those fly predators work well for house and barn flies. I don't know if they specifically work for face flies though. 

You can take a few bulbs (not cloves, bulbs) and chop up and mix some molasses with it and feed a couple times a day for a few days for cattle.


----------



## Gabriel (Dec 2, 2008)

Salatin recommends Basic H soap in the stock water, although I don't remember the ratio and the book isn't handy. I've also seen apple cider vinegar recommended at the ratio of 1 oz to 1 gal' of water. They don't care for it, but they don't have a choice, they drink when they get thirsty enough. 

Our chickens seem to keep a pretty good handle on the flies around here.


----------



## oldtimer (Dec 12, 2010)

FYI:
See: http://www.vet.ksu.edu/depts/vmth/agpract/articles/Common_Flies.pdf
&
http://www.ca.uky.edu/entomology/entfacts/ef509.asp


----------



## Trisha in WA (Sep 28, 2005)

Gabriel said:


> Salatin recommends Basic H soap in the stock water, although I don't remember the ratio and the book isn't handy. I've also seen apple cider vinegar recommended at the ratio of 1 oz to 1 gal' of water. They don't care for it, but they don't have a choice, they drink when they get thirsty enough.
> 
> Our chickens seem to keep a pretty good handle on the flies around here.


I believe the Basic H is 1 capful per 5 gallons of water. Someone please correct me if I am wrong, but that's the way I remember it.
I put ACV in my stock tank regularly but no to that high of concentration. I have a 75 or 100 gal stock tank (can't remember exactly the size) and I put probably 2-3 cups in and my animals like it fine. I have also used this as a way to mask a new water supply. My horses in particular travel a fair bit in the summer, so we always make sure they have been drinking water with ACV in it at home so that we can just add some ACV to water where ever we are and they'll drink it (since they can be fussy about new water sources).


----------



## oregon woodsmok (Dec 19, 2010)

Just give the things a good worming with ivermectin BEFORE you bring them onto your property. Then practice good sanitation.

If there are no worms on your property, and the cattle don't have any worms when they arrive, there is no way for them to get reinfected.

You could try face masks like they use for horses. The old fashioned kind with fringe. Again, good sanitation will greatly reduce the number of flies.


----------



## southerngurl (May 11, 2003)

oregon woodsmok said:


> Just give the things a good worming with ivermectin BEFORE you bring them onto your property. Then practice good sanitation.
> 
> If there are no worms on your property, and the cattle don't have any worms when they arrive, there is no way for them to get reinfected.


Well, of course you never get ALL the worms when you worm. There is a percentage just waiting to populate your place over time.


----------



## genebo (Sep 12, 2004)

Whenever you bring cattle onto virgin pastures, there's a honeymoon period during which you won't have a worm problem. Over time, the problem builds.

A survey followed a dozen people who started keeping goats, and recording the wormers they used. After 10 years, there were only 2 people still keeping goats, due to the worm problem. It didn't matter which wormer they used, they all failed with time.

Chemical wormers aren't the answer. I don't know what is, but chemicals aren't it.

My buddy thinks he has the answer. He has kept goats for a long time and has never wormed any of them. At first, they died. He bred the ones that lived. Over the years he developed goats that are *tolerant* of worms. They have worms and the worms do damage, but his goats stand up under the attack.

We need to identify which breeds or lines within a breed of cattle do best against worms. We may need to know this one day soon.

Genebo
Paradise Farm


----------



## Trisha in WA (Sep 28, 2005)

Seems to me daily rotation of pastures with none being revisited for a period of time (say a month) would kill the eggs thus not re-infesting your stock. No?


----------



## southerngurl (May 11, 2003)

genebo said:


> Whenever you bring cattle onto virgin pastures, there's a honeymoon period during which you won't have a worm problem. Over time, the problem builds.
> 
> A survey followed a dozen people who started keeping goats, and recording the wormers they used. After 10 years, there were only 2 people still keeping goats, due to the worm problem. It didn't matter which wormer they used, they all failed with time.
> 
> ...


As much as I'm against the chemicals this just isn't exactly true. The thing is, most people do not use wormers effectively. There are different worms and different wormers must be used for different worms. Safeguard won't kill barberpole worm. Barberpole worms kill. Moxidectin will kill barberpole worm, but won't kill liver flukes. Liver flukes kill goats too. Clorsulon will kill them. Safeguard will get tapes, ivermectin often won't get much of anything. 

Bottom line is, if you are going to raise goats, you better get a microscope and learn to copper bolus. You have to know what worms you have or if your goat has a worm problem at all. This way you aren't treating unnecessarily or ineffectively. You can fecal again and see if it worked. 

I believe copper deficiency is probably the biggest factor with goats having so much problems with worms and they do have more than horses or cattle. Learn about intestinal parasite's lifecycles and learn about mineral balance and nutrition. And yes, learn about herbs and how to use them effectively. I don't think you'll get far with any commercial herbal wormers. It takes more than that.

While pasture rotation can keep your pasture taller, exposing your animals to less worms because they aren't eating close to the ground, it takes a while for the worm to actually die out, longer than a month. They need a good freeze or to be very dry for a while. 

However you can clean up some of those parasties with other livestock. Horses cattle and goats all get different worms for the most part. They become dead end hosts for eachothers' worms. A crop rotation that has one species following another would do a lot to keep worm burdens down.


----------



## genebo (Sep 12, 2004)

The seminar I attended last year told of an experiment that was conducted using extreme pasture rotation. They had 12 paddocks and rotated the cattle every three days. They kept the stocking rate low enough to keep the grass over 6" tall. The cattle revisited each paddock every 36 days. The worms' life cycle is shorter than that, so the worm load on the paddocks was kept low.

Fecal counts only tell how many worm eggs are being shed. A blood test for anemia tells how the worms are affecting the animal. This is sort of how the Famacha test works.

If the cow or goat is faring well, regardless of how many worms it is carrying, it does not need to be wormed.

Where I live in Virginia, Safeguard is almost totally ineffective. It has been in use for so long that every worm it could kill is already dead. The ones that are left, it can't kill. Those are multiplying. That's how worms develop resistance to wormers. The newest wormers are already starting to lose their effectiveness.

We need to only use wormers when necessary, and never underdose. We need to keep the available wormers working long enough to discover new methods that will work.

Genebo
Paradise Farm


----------



## Bisket11 (May 6, 2010)

Thanks everyone for your reply. It is nice to have a place to go to talk with people and learn from there experience. Thanks again!!!


----------

