# Texas real estate question



## mreynolds (Jan 1, 2015)

I'm stumped on an issue lately and wanted some advice from some of our fellow Texan real estate owners. Perhaps @Alice In TX/MO may know or someone else. 

I'm under contract for a house. The seller is saying they can't get a survey because some of the info is "missing". I can't understand that but I guess it's possible. Anyway, the title company says they won't issue insurance without it. Now the seller is saying he has a lawyer that can give me a warranty deed without a survey. 

Is this possible?

If so, will the bank ever refi it later without a survey? 

This is a cash deal relating to a 1031 exchange and I'm running out of time. I'm calling my banker today to see what he says but all I really care about is a clear title.


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## Alice In TX/MO (May 10, 2002)

I am familiar with the 1031 time frame. How frustrating.

Not able to get a survey because of missing WHAT? I would think the county courthouse would have everything. Strange.

Have you tried contacting a survey company yourself?

Someone needs to give you more answers to the questions.


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## robin416 (Dec 29, 2019)

I would be reaching out to a real estate attorney. Sometimes trying to save money can get expensive.


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## mreynolds (Jan 1, 2015)

Alice In TX/MO said:


> I am familiar with the 1031 time frame. How frustrating.
> 
> Not able to get a survey because of missing WHAT? I would think the county courthouse would have everything. Strange.
> 
> ...


Says some of the field notes are missing. That doesn't make sense to me because that would also have to mean that the adjoining properties would have to have the same ones missing. We are only taking 1/2 acre in a subdivision next to a school


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## po boy (Jul 12, 2010)

I imagine it is possible, but if the seller is correct, how will you get a survey when u sell? It would be best to insist on a survey. Ask the title company if they can get a survey and if they can amend the contract for the seller to pay the cost of the survey.


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## mreynolds (Jan 1, 2015)

po boy said:


> I imagine it is possible, but if the seller is correct, how will you get a survey when it'su sell? It would be best to insist on a survey. Ask the title company if they can get a survey and if they can amend the contract for the seller to pay the cost of the survey.


Seller is paying the cost. All costs actually. I'm willing to hire my own surveyor though. I don't think it would be that much.


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## po boy (Jul 12, 2010)

mreynolds said:


> Seller is paying the cost. All costs actually. I'm willing to hire my own surveyor though. I don't think it would be that much.


Hire the one the title company uses.


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## Pony (Jan 6, 2003)

I would be very leery of buying it without a survey, especially since the seller states that there is "missing info." 

That just plain sounds hinky.

It will probably cost you in the neighborhood of $1000 for the survey. Don't know what you're paying for the 1/2 acre, but if it is encumbered for whatever reason, it could well end up being a lot more expensive without a survey.


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## mreynolds (Jan 1, 2015)

Pony said:


> I would be very leery of buying it without a survey, especially since the seller states that there is "missing info."
> 
> That just plain sounds hinky.
> 
> It will probably cost you in the neighborhood of $1000 for the survey. Don't know what you're paying for the 1/2 acre, but if it is encumbered for whatever reason, it could well end up being a lot more expensive without a survey.


I know. The only reason I havent walked is because it is a smoking hot deal with all new Pex and drains (it even has 2 septic tanks for 1 bathroom) plus new wire and panel update. There is literally nothing for me to do but replace one rotted board and paint.


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## mreynolds (Jan 1, 2015)

Didnt get the surveyor on the phone today but I did find out I _may not_ even be able to get homeowner insurance.


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## Pony (Jan 6, 2003)

mreynolds said:


> Didnt get the surveyor on the phone today but I did find out I _may not_ even be able to get homeowner insurance.


Then it may be something from which you'll have to walk. No amount of solid plumbing and electric is worth going without title and homeowner insurance.


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## Danaus29 (Sep 12, 2005)

Does Texas have adverse posession or squatters rights laws? In Ohio you can file those if you have had posession of and paid taxes on the property for at least 7 years. But the paperwork and legal fees required are a nightmare.

Proper surveys done from a bench mark in this area cost over $3000. Surveys done from a utility pole pin but not recorded at the county real estate office cost around $1500. 

Without a survey, how can you get a deed? Without a deed, how can you own the property? How was the current owner able to buy the property?

Have you looked at the deed recorded at the county courthouse?

I would pass if you can't get a survey or home owners insurance.


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## Alice In TX/MO (May 10, 2002)

How long do you have left on the 1031 time limit?

How do the people selling to you know they own it?!?

Surveys in Central Texas are in the $2500 range now.


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## mreynolds (Jan 1, 2015)

Alice In TX/MO said:


> How long do you have left on the 1031 time limit?
> How do the people selling to you know they own it?!?
> 
> Surveys in Central Texas are in the $2500 range now.


45 days 


He says a lawyer have him a general warranty deed. He lives less than a block away and claims even his property doesn't have a correct survey. According to him, none of the neighborhood does. I find that a far stretch. 

Our surveys are just a little bit less. They have gone up the last year or so.


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## tarbe (Apr 7, 2007)

mreynolds said:


> I know. The only reason I havent walked is because it is a *smoking hot deal *



Danger Will Robinson!

Agree with the above rec to engage a real estate attorney.


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## Fishindude (May 19, 2015)

I have purchased several pieces of farm real estate without surveys.
Only reason to survey would be if we intended to do something right on the property line.


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## Wolf mom (Mar 8, 2005)

mreynolds said:


> The only reason I haven't walked is because it is a smoking hot deal


That's what smokin' hot deals are - smokin' hot - with lots of issues down the road like when you go to sell it. 

I sure hope you wrote in the contract that the deposit is refundable and you have lots of contingencies ..... so far, what you've written has a lot of smokin' red flag issues. 1031 exchange or not. 

You say you still have 45 days left - plenty of time to find something else. The best take away is never ever get into a RE contract without first having an idea of what'll it be selling it.


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## Danaus29 (Sep 12, 2005)

I don't know about other areas but in Ohio a survey is required for land to be sold. A survey isn't required each time but at the time of division a legal survey is done and recorded at the county courthouse. With no legal survey ever having been done, how did they record the deeds at the courthouse?


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## mreynolds (Jan 1, 2015)

Wolf mom said:


> That's what smokin' hot deals are - smokin' hot - with lots of issues down the road like when you go to sell it.
> 
> I sure hope you wrote in the contract that the deposit is refundable and you have lots of contingencies ..... so far, what you've written has a lot of smokin' red flag issues. 1031 exchange or not.
> 
> You say you still have 45 days left - plenty of time to find something else. The best take away is never ever get into a RE contract without first having an idea of what'll it be selling it.


There is no deposits. All the power is mine. We didn't use an agent. It's my contract. I do have another property in the mix. You have to identify 3 and 2 are still valid. The other property would have to be an VRBO though because it's on the lake. It would be my first time to venture into that area. Looks like I might have to. That, or just pay the taxes.


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## Danaus29 (Sep 12, 2005)

VRBO? Is that vacation rental by owner? There is one in my neighborhood. It stays occupied most of the time. So far the renters have been quiet people that don't bring drama with them.


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## mreynolds (Jan 1, 2015)

Danaus29 said:


> VRBO? Is that vacation rental by owner? There is one in my neighborhood. It stays occupied most of the time. So far the renters have been quiet people that don't bring drama with them.


Yes, it's like Airbnb but a different platform.


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## Alice In TX/MO (May 10, 2002)

I thought you had to have the replacement property identified in the FIRST 45 days.


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## RJ2019 (Aug 27, 2019)

Sounds fishy. I would walk, personally.


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## mreynolds (Jan 1, 2015)

Alice In TX/MO said:


> I thought you had to have the replacement property identified in the FIRST 45 days.


I did. They require up to 3.


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## Alice In TX/MO (May 10, 2002)

Excellent.


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## bpmahagan (Mar 19, 2021)

mreynolds said:


> According to him, none of the neighborhood does.


Is this in Overton? There were two surveys of downtown and they didn't agree. It has held up anyone buying any property for years.


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## mreynolds (Jan 1, 2015)

bpmahagan said:


> Is this in Overton? There were two surveys of downtown and they didn't agree. It has held up anyone buying any property for years.


No, but I am familiar with that area. Never have bought there though.


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## mreynolds (Jan 1, 2015)

I backed out of the contract today. The other one is not under contract yet but they say they will. I figure, it's better to pay tax on the remainder ( I bought one property with 2/3 of the 1031) than to get stuck holding the bag. Thank you all for the advice. I was thinking about going ahead and buying but my " spidey senses" was telling me not to. I just needed a push from rational people, whom I respect, to push me in the right direction.


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## Alice In TX/MO (May 10, 2002)

I believe you made a wise decision.


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## B&L Chicken Ranch and Spa (Jan 4, 2019)

I should have read the whole thread.

So you backed out. Maybe good, but than again, maybe that is what he wanted so's to get a higher price for the house?


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## mreynolds (Jan 1, 2015)

B&L Chicken Ranch and Spa said:


> I should have read the whole thread.
> 
> So you backed out. Maybe good, but than again, maybe that is what he wanted so's to get a higher price for the house?


I don't think that is it. There were 3 people who wanted to buy it and I was the only one he didn't know personally. I offered cash though. 

It's a 2/1 and he only wants 46k for it. It will rent for 815 in the location it's at. It needs absolutely nothing done to it. He bought it for his daughter and she moved away. Now he wants to sell it. 

At least that's the story. I'm not buying the whole thing because it's owned by an LLC. That was my first clue but didn't think twice about it until the survey issue. 

The other house is on the lake and I know the guy flipping it. I'll just VRBO that one. Try new things I guess.


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## TxGypsy (Nov 23, 2006)

bpmahagan said:


> Is this in Overton? There were two surveys of downtown and they didn't agree. It has held up anyone buying any property for years.


How long has that been going on? Must be fairly recent or I'd have heard of it. My Daddy and Grandpa surveyed just about this whole region between them. They've been gone for quite a while.
I also have a friend that owns quite a few rental properties there.
Do you happen to know the names of the survey companies? Kind of hoping one is my no good Uncle. I will find some way to rub his face in it!


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## TxGypsy (Nov 23, 2006)

mreynolds said:


> I backed out of the contract today. The other one is not under contract yet but they say they will. I figure, it's better to pay tax on the remainder ( I bought one property with 2/3 of the 1031) than to get stuck holding the bag. Thank you all for the advice. I was thinking about going ahead and buying but my " spidey senses" was telling me not to. I just needed a push from rational people, whom I respect, to push me in the right direction.


This was a smart move. My family business is surveying....in Texas....all my life....and I've never heard of a property not being able to be surveyed.

Now one thing I have heard of and forgive me if I step on any pc toes, is property you can't get a title to. Grandpa pieced together a fairly large ranch for this part of Texas. Any time he could buy adjoining parcels... even small ones he did. There are a few peculiarities with the ranch because of parcels that no clear title could be obtained. 
Quite a bit of land hereabouts was given to freed slaves. Those folks didn't know anything about wills, warranty deeds or paying taxes. Some learned and some didn't care. Because some of these folks didn't leave wills all the heirs have an interest. Then all their children and grandchildren have an interest etc but there is no actual definitive owner. The only way to clean up the title is for the property to be sold for back taxes. 
I have heard of the currently occupying heirs granting a warranty deed to sell property but you can never get a title policy on it and another heir can come in and sue you.
Since you said you can't get a title policy without a survey....they could be blocking a survey because they know you can't get a title policy regardless.


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## bpmahagan (Mar 19, 2021)

TxMex said:


> Do you happen to know the names of the survey companies?


I don't. We have some friends that have lived in and around Overton most of their lives. As I remember they had the dates of the two different surveys that didn't match but no names. Plan on seeing them today so I'll ask for a refresher.


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