# Want to discuss queen reaqring Cell punch style?



## alleyyooper (Apr 22, 2005)

Raising our own queens was to try to select stock from our own apiary that winter well and are hygenic for lower mite loads.
The normal grafting method just didn't work well for me with my ageing eyes trying to scoop that tiny tiny c shaped larva from that milky looking bath they are in and put it in starter cups. 
Plus the starter cups I found were a pretty much one time use even though we cleaned them well and soaked them in bleach, the girls just didn't want to draw out the cells on used stuff.

Then at a SEMBA bee conferance a fellow gave a talk and demastration on Cell Punch queen rearing. I already had the equipment as a old timer gave me the cell punch tool, told me ruffly what it was for but not any details on how to use it.

I like to raise my queens from our best colonys which takes record keeping. All in small spiral note books. We look at the queens laying habits, amount of honey produced each year under normal conditions and what the mite load of the colony is under our sampleing each time we inspect the hive and drone comb that is present. I then install a couple of frames with no foundation only a small starter strip (about a month ahead) . At first I used non wired foundation but found I didn't need that

I also set up a month ahead a mateing program for the drones. Usally about a 1/4 mile away, is colonies with several frames (usally 5 but some times just 4.) of drone comb. Those drone colonies are looked at the same way as the ones the new queens will come from.

I use a 5 frame nuc to get the cells drawn out into queen cells. Usally 20 to a nuc.
These nucs are made ready the day before the cell punching starts. Mostly all capped brood much of it near hatching in to nurse bee and a nuff other workers to keep the brood warm and supplied with stores. That is also were my nucs with the feeders are handy. Fill a half gallon jar with 1:1 syrup and place in in the feed section lay a small pollen patty (1/4 to 1/2 pound.) on the top bars and you have the makings of some top notch queens. 

More on the tools and punching the cells in the next installment.

 Al


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## tom j (Apr 3, 2009)

Al are you trying to make trouble for me ,, this will be the next thing Bon will be wanting me to try ,,,, just kidding ,, youi told me about this last year ,, and I am thinking that next year I will give this a shot as then I might be able to have queens when I want them ,,, not when the girls think they need them


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## alleyyooper (Apr 22, 2005)

Don't take a high investment in tools. The heat sourse is probably the most costly, for me a magnfing light too. saving some tin cans that fit inside each other so they don't get throwen out. flux brushes to apply the wax to the bars the cells stick to and a nuc or two.












Double nuc with feeder ports.



















 Al


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## johng (Feb 14, 2009)

This tread from another forum has some good info. Raising Queen Cells Without Grafting


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## alleyyooper (Apr 22, 2005)

Some things you need to make a easy job of cell punching.
You can buy ($20.00) the cell punch tool but there is no need if you have a few skill with tools. A compression ferrel 3/8 to 1/2 inch Make one edge extreamly sharp with fine sand paper or a small sharping stone. Cut some stiff wire (coat hanger will do) clean it up and solder it to the ferrel on the out side edge. Cut a short section of dowel drill a hole n the one end that the wire will fit in, use epoxy glue to hold it there. Now you have the cell punch tool.

A pair of tin cans where one fits inside the other with a tiny bit of room. one can holds the water and the inside one holds the wax .

A heat source, I use a unleaded fuel coleman back packing stove. A friend uses a hot plate. Mine is more portable and the heat is controlled easier.

Flux brush, use it to dap a bit of wax on the frame bar to hold the cells.

These are must have things.

I also have a small folding work table, one of those telascoping lighted maginifying lamps and a 5 gallon pail of hot water.

The table makes it a portable operation so I can do the job in any number of our bee yards with out worry ing about the frame chilling in transit.
The light and maginfying glass is so I can see much better what I am trying to do.
And the 5 gallons of hot water for a damp heated towel to stop the frame from drying out. just fold the towel back in the area you want to work.

Ill stop here nless there is some intrest.

 Al


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## scrapiron (Jul 23, 2011)

What does the frame look like that the cells are affixed to? Is it a regular deep frame with 2 or 3 rows of cells?


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## alleyyooper (Apr 22, 2005)

This is a borrowed picture. the frame is a medium with 10 queen cells.
My deep frame I can do 40 cells by placing 3 cross bars on the frame I use the top bar for the first row. I usally stick with 20.












 Al


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## AverageJo (Sep 24, 2010)

I'm still interested in learning more!! Please continue how all this is done. So you put these 'glued' in punched egg cells into the top of an empty frame. Put it in a hive that only has nurse bees and foragers in it. The girls build queen cells and cap them. Then what? Do you remove them and put them into individual nuc boxes for them to hatch and call home, do their maiden flight, come back and lay their own eggs? I'm assuming here. How do you remove them?? Do you even remove them or do these 10 queens duke it out for this nuc box??


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## scrapiron (Jul 23, 2011)

AverageJo, thats what I was wondering. (removal) I guess you have to count the days to emergence, and separate them just before it happens. Also, is that small pieces of dowel on that frame that the cells are glued to?


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## alleyyooper (Apr 22, 2005)

I take my equipment to the beeyard along with a small genset. set up the small table, attach the magnifying lite, start the coleman stove set the can of water on with the can of wax, get the plug frame handy. Then I go pull the frame I installed earlier (I mark the top bar with a sharpie.) Bring it back to the table look for the cell I'm going to start with and punch it out with the tool I removed from the hot water. Once the cell is punched I take a small flux brush to brush a good amount of wax on the frame and stick the punched out cell to it.
Once the bar has as many cells as I want I install it into the nuc box I set up a couple days before hand.
The cells are usally all capped by day 8. Handle the cells with extra care after that because the pupae Are delicate at this point and fit into the cells loosely. Remove the cells gentley with a good sharp knife to cut the wax that is holding it to the bar.
At day 10 at the lattest I instal the queen cell in the wire loop.
I made some loops of wire with 2 legs about a half inch long I stick in comb of a frame from a nuc I made up of capped brood and nurse bees (the foragers that get in it will go home if left open for them.) Gentley move the nuc to a place the queen can return to once mated. Normally the queens will hatch on the 14th day. Of course some do hatch a day earlier or latter. After a time with these cells you will come to know when a cells is ready to hatch by the color of the tip where they chew the trap door. Normally I don't fool with the nuc once the queen cell is installed for 16 days if the weather has been good and longer if we have had rain. That gives the queen a chance to hatch explore her new home and do a mating flight for a couple of days then settle down to egg laying.
Ruffly 30 days from cell punching to a god laying queen.




























 Al


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## alleyyooper (Apr 22, 2005)

Once the queen has been mated and laying for a bit you can catch the queen to install in a hive just like you did the package queen.
You can buy the 3 hole beton queen cages











and the one I like best and recommend is the plastic JZBZ cage.










I find the JZBZ cage easier to get the queen in. as the opening is bigger and snaps shut.

I also have used a home made push in cage to trap the queen on a frame of comb so she can lay eggs while the workers get used to her.










 Al


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## tom j (Apr 3, 2009)

I found a way to melt wax ( when your home ) and not worry about it getting to hot ,, I had one of those elect pads that keep you cup of coffee hot ,, I got to thinking ( yea it did give me a head ack ) if it keeps the coffee hot but not boil ,,, maybe the wax will melt but not smoke and get to hot ,, ,, I put my pot of wax on it and it worked ,, ,, I use one of those little pots that only hold a cup or 2 ,, but it worked great ,, if you don't have a small pot ,,, just use a coffee cup


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