# LGD's and Stray Dogs



## lockhart76 (Jul 31, 2011)

I would like people to comment on their experiences or offer advice etc.
regarding stray or other people's dogs encountering your LGD's in *their* territory with *their* stock?
Last night our two Irish Wolfhounds (pets that live in the yard and not with stock) escaped their kennel and went out and wreaked havoc on our sheep flock. They slashed the hamstrings and throats of five head and I ended up shooting several. In total over 7 head were injured/killed or I ended up shooting. Very sad. We are rehoming the Irish Wolfhounds. =(
Anyway, where were our guardians? why didn't they kill the IW's? I can only surmise that Liesl (my wife) and I are the alpha members of the pack on our farm and the LGD's have seen us interacting with the IW's and know that we accept them so they accepted them? I wish they would have killed them. We do get stray dogs off the Indian reserve coming through our property so I am wondering what our LGD's would do to them??? I have heard of LGD's killing any dog that came in their territory, even working collie dogs. I also know producers whose LGD's simply force every new or strange dog to submit and be pinned on their back before they are allowed in the paddock. Any dog that won't submit is killed. Those that do are permitted. Any experience with this or thoughts on it? Can I make my LGD's more aggressive?? Part of me wants that. I know they will not tolerate coyotes etc. but strange dogs/strays/neighbour dogs can be a problem too.


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## Ross (May 9, 2002)

I don't think having your pet dogs in the flock is a fair indication of how your LGDs will react to a stray. They will have your scent and as you indicated the LGDs know they belong within the territory. So that's the thinking its got legs but can you have confidence in it? Anyone's guess unless the LGDs have more of a track record. I wonder if your future pets wouldn't benefit from more daily training to familiarize them with your stock and know the sheep are not to be chased.


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## BarbadosSheep (Jun 27, 2011)

I am sorry about your wolfhounds. I think the reason your LGDs didn't protect the sheep is that they knew the dogs belonged. How old are your LGDs and what breed are they? And how many do you have?


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## MonsterMalak (Apr 15, 2011)

I ALSO AGREE WITH THE TWO ANSWERS ABOVE. 

The LGDs will view them as part of the pack. I have had this problem with neighbor dogs that visit often. I encourage them to be friendly. But so far, they are held to strict submission. Stay away from the food, livestock, and females in heat. Otherwise they are permitted on the property as long as they refrain from these things. 

But like yourself, at times wish they would keep them all out. But it is a balancing game, as I also do not want dogs that will kill all the neighbors dogs.

Hard balance at times.

Sorry for your loss!!!


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## BarbadosSheep (Jun 27, 2011)

My neighbor actually suggested that we let his dog and my Anatolians get to know each other, so in case his dog gets into my sheep pasture, they won't hurt him. Yeah....that's NOT going to happen. Sorry, but I don't want my ASDs being friendly with any of the neighbor dogs. All of my neighbors know that these dogs are here and know what they will do if their dog gets in with my sheep. Well, right now my dogs are pups so really they would probably not hurt the neighbor's dog but I don't want them to know that. I have had too much stock killed or maimed in past years by the "friendly neighbor dog" so NO dogs are welcome here.


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## Goat Servant (Oct 26, 2007)

Like as been stated, they accepted the IWs as part of the family. 
While one of our Anatolians wouldnt hurt a fly unless it got in with the goats, the other one has been known to jump fence & rip into a couple of neighbor dogs, one was on our property off leash. 
We have since raised fence but rarely do wandering dogs come on our property.
Everyone knows we have goats & they have lethal protection.
I have brought a beagle home a few times from the neighbors property cause our two were trying to eat fence to get to him.
"Here's you doggie, I want you to know if he ever got in with the goats my dogs will kill him." We dont see him very often.
There must be a half doz dogs who roam in various numbers. They all give our place wide berth.


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## CornerstoneAcre (Mar 10, 2011)

BarbadosSheep said:


> My neighbor actually suggested that we let his dog and my Anatolians get to know each other, so in case his dog gets into my sheep pasture, they won't hurt him. Yeah....that's NOT going to happen. Sorry, but I don't want my ASDs being friendly with any of the neighbor dogs. All of my neighbors know that these dogs are here and know what they will do if their dog gets in with my sheep. Well, right now my dogs are pups so really they would probably not hurt the neighbor's dog but I don't want them to know that. I have had too much stock killed or maimed in past years by the "friendly neighbor dog" so NO dogs are welcome here.


I had a neighbor say the exact same thing to me. My reply was just don't let your dog get down here. If their dog is in my pasture it had to work hard to get there and it WANTS the goats, so all bets are off. 

As far as the OP question, I guess I would have to agree with the other posters: 1) they saw them as part of your pack/herd 2)any future dogs should be trained as pups to submit to the LGDs and stay away from sheep (easier said than done I'm sure)

A somewhat off topic question....where are you located lockhart76? If you are seriously thinking of rehoming I have a friend that may be interested. She had a pair of IW for years and the last one just passed away a month or so ago. She does not have any small stock - just horses. You could PM me any info you would might be interested.


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## mekasmom (Jan 19, 2010)

lockhart76 said:


> Anyway, where were our guardians? why didn't they kill the IW's?


Did they know the wolfhounds lived on your territory? I have had up to 4 LGD at a time. They never hurt the chihuahuas that live here in the house. They protect them like they are part of their flock.
LGDs don't hurt their own family/herd/flock.


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## Cheryl aka JM (Aug 7, 2007)

My LGDs, 2 Anatolians and a Great Pyr, and my house dogs, a Rott and a Mongrel, run and play as a pack at leat 3 or 4 times a week, as often as I can let them out together. The 2 Anatolians are tasked on all sunny days by going into the old pig pen with the Rott and running the energy off him (he's a 100lb puppy with too much energy and is much more pleasant in the house at night after spending the day playing with the Anatolians). I thought I had ruined them for gaurding against strays....but last week some beagles came up the backside of the property. I heard them and thought they were coyotes so I went out there to help the Anatolians with a gun. Nope~ whole pack of actually very cute TINY beagles. And my dogs CLEARLY intended to kill them. My sweet girls were drooling and all the hair standing up, charging the fence and darting in trying to pull a beagle through the fence to eat it. There were teeth EVERYWHERE! Luckily the beagles ran off down the hill. The owner showed up later to ask me about one that was missing. I told him my dogs didn't eat one, but not for lack of trying. He'd best keep them away from my fence. The girls are NOT going to allow those strange beagles on my property even if they do spend half of most days playing with my Rottwieler!


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## hiddensprings (Aug 6, 2009)

I am so sorry for your lost. I would agree with the others. Your LGD's saw the Wolfhounds as part of the family. I have two anatolians and they never bother my border collie when she is working. (I do keep her under house arrest unless we need her working. Man, she would chase livestock all day if I let her). If my neighbor comes down with his border collies in the back of his truck, my Anatolians will NOT let them out of the truck. They know, those dogs don't belong


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## pancho (Oct 23, 2006)

I have never owned an Irish Wolfhound but think they are one of the best looking dog breeds there is. Don't have any comments or suggestions. Just wish I owned one of the dogs.


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## Pops2 (Jan 27, 2003)

pancho said:


> I have never owned an Irish Wolfhound but think they are one of the best looking dog breeds there is. Don't have any comments or suggestions. Just wish I owned one of the dogs.


for some "strange reason" the health of the breed in general is atrocious. 4 years is the average life span. 8 is a miracle. dane people look at them & say at least we're not as bad off as they are.
funny thing is they are basically just wirehaired danes.


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## pancho (Oct 23, 2006)

Pops2 said:


> for some "strange reason" the health of the breed in general is atrocious. 4 years is the average life span. 8 is a miracle. dane people look at them & say at least we're not as bad off as they are.
> funny thing is they are basically just wirehaired danes.


Might be like many breeds. People are thinking and breeding for looks only and not long life and health. Seems like breeders could breed for a healthier dog that lives longer very easily. May have to take a few steps back in able to go forward with the breed.


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## BarbadosSheep (Jun 27, 2011)

I always wanted an Irish Wolfhound but won't get one because of the short lifespan. Very sad.


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## wendle (Feb 22, 2006)

Have to agree with the others that your lgds are used to the IWs being around. They at least would have caught them by surprise with the attack. I wonder what the ages are of the lgds and IWs. Could it be the IWs are alpha over the lgds? I am surprised at least a fight didn't break out between the breeds during the attack. Even though my lgd is used to seeing border collies around all the time, and will even on rare occasion play a little with them, it is a big no no to stress his sheep. He doesn't act like he would kill them, but will mouth and bug them until they leave. I consider him on the passive side as I have been around lgds who would and have attacked my border collies for being anywhere near their sheep. I notice my lgds are confident in themselves and do not show submissive behaviors around any dogs that come into their territory.


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## Rock (Jan 5, 2009)

While it is a shame that you lost your stock and now have to get rid of your pets. the fault lies squarely with the kennel builder.
Dogs olfactory sense is up to 200,000 times greater than mans, the guards could smell the family on the wolfhounds from 5 acres away.
Same as the dog chewed the leather belt left on the floor, only on a much larger scale.
JMTCW
Sorry for the loss of your stock


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## mekasmom (Jan 19, 2010)

Cheryl aka JM said:


> And my dogs CLEARLY intended to kill them. My sweet girls were drooling and all the hair standing up, charging the fence and darting in trying to pull a beagle through the fence to eat it. There were teeth EVERYWHERE! Luckily the beagles ran off down the hill. The owner showed up later to ask me about one that was missing. I told him my dogs didn't eat one, but not for lack of trying.


That has happened at our house too. My LGDs killed a beagle that came over here and the owner say it a couple of years back. And it makes the people mad, but you know, if they kept their dogs contained, they wouldn't be on the property where the LGD could get to them. Mine have killed a few cats over the years too, but fortunately the owners didn't see that happen.
When mine killed the beagle we had the woman up here screaming and crying then the husband yelling. It was bad, but if they had kept it home, it wouldn't have been on the property where the big dogs could get to it.


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## CornerstoneAcre (Mar 10, 2011)

Just out of curiosity - not trying to steal the thread - are there any liability issues if your dog kills or injures a neighbors dog that is on your property? I guess around here even the police seem to advocate SSS if you have a dog attacking livestock (officer STRESSED the SHOVEL and SHUTUP). About two years ago a fellow was convicted (not a stiff sentence, but convicted none the less) of shooting (and killing) a neighbors dog that was in the process of killing chickens.


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## Goatress (Feb 4, 2011)

I wonder if it would depend on what state you live in and how 'rural' you are. The county I live in is considered very rural, in fact we have a lot less restrictions than neighboring counties. Well here you are in your rights if you shoot a dog or pack killing your stock. I think if the offending party wanted to sue you for doing such, well, they probably could....but again, would it stand in your state's courts of law...hmmmm....good question CornerstoneAcre.


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## Ross (May 9, 2002)

Certainly you should consider liability, and a the first person you can ask is your insurance provider. You can get coverage it won't be a huge thing and it might save your farm in a worst case senerio. Note to self, if they didn't know about you using a guard dog before they might want to get that covered right away putting you on the spot. Maybe ask a competative company for a quote and put the question to them first, then you'll have an idea? Insurance is the sort of thing you should keep current and shop around now and then anyhow. We had coverage for a riding stable added to our farm policy after a reveiw.... why because we had a new horse!! Some brokers are seriously bent or stupid.
Civil courts are weird creatures, some places are more educated and hold people very accountable, some seem to run on sympathy more than sense. Having a dog kill the intruder might help, in that you had no control, or it might hinder because you had no control. If your LGD was on your property, the neighbours knew it was there, and they didn't control their dog you'd sure like to think the world would back you up. Worth checking for many reasons not just keeping a dog.

Thing is when you kill a neighbors dog (any means any reason) you will usually have an angry neighbor, and no matter what they're going to stay that way. Thats a tough thing to put a price on. You know the drill, every time they see (imagine) a bylaw infringment opportunity they're on the phone just to get even. It gets old for everybody.


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## pancho (Oct 23, 2006)

Many times people tend to forget the last S in SSS.
That one is very important.
Just like many jobs, if you can't complete the job don't start it.
Don't do just part of the job.
If you do the SS do not forget the last and very important S.


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