# Is this doomsday month?



## Guest (Sep 3, 2007)

September '07. This is the month everything starts turning to crap for everybody. Or so it's been predicted. I heard this maybe 2 years ago, and periodically I'll see something come up again about it. Does anyone know what I'm talking about and has there been any more predictions lately? 

This morning our pastor mentioned to us all, "Get yourself in order with God, cause terrible things are gonna start happening across America." "Don't think the rapture is gonna keep you safe cause it maynot even be time for the rapture yet". 

He didn't go into details on any predictions or what anyone else is saying. But it got me to wondering about the Septermber '07 predictions I've been hearing from other sources for the last couple of years.


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## kinderfeld (Jan 29, 2006)

:shrug:


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## charles burns (Mar 21, 2006)

Beats me too, all I can think of when I read the post are the veloceraptures in Jurassic Park.


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## susieM (Apr 23, 2006)

Well...
Cheney seems determined to attack Iran in the near future.
New soldiers are being paid $20,000 if they'll sign up and be willing to go to war by the end of the month.
The Florida National Guard will be going to Washington to protect somebody.
Bird Flu is right around the corner.
Yellowstone is heating up and could blow.
Millions could lose their homes if this mortgage thng doesn't get fixed.
The economy could get worse than it was during the great depression.
Bees are dying off.

Shall I go on?


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## remmettn (Dec 26, 2005)

Somebody said âlike a theft in the night it will comeâ.


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## Tweetybird (Oct 15, 2005)

Could they be referring to an article on Fox stating that "U.S. Terror Atack-90 days at most"?? There are predictions that we are due to get hit again, the sources are "information floating around Europe and the Middle East", and that it is imminent, 90 days at most. They are predicting mass transet is the next target, and that when you travel, carry a small bottle of water, a towel and a flashlight. There is more in thr artlicle, but could they be refering to that?


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## BillHoo (Mar 16, 2005)

susieM said:


> Well...
> .........Millions could lose their homes if this mortgage thng doesn't get fixed.
> The economy could get worse than it was during the great depression.
> Bees are dying off.
> ...


What makes you think that "this mortgage thing" is even broken?

The basics of the mortgage industry is:
- Look at how much you make
- Take out a mortage whose monthly payments are no more than 51 percent of what you make per month.
- If you can't afford the payments don't buy the house/take the mortgage

It's been that way for years!

What you have now is knuckleheads who thought that they could get variable rate mortgages with nothing down. They speculated that the overinflated value of the home would go up before they would have to pay any real money. Then they would sell the overpriced home to some chump and run off with the cash!

Instead, the American public realized that paying $900,000.00 for a 1 bedroom condo was not reasonable, so no one bought. The knucklehead is stuck owing money to a mortgage lender who has already paid another knucklehead who sold the property to the first aforementioned knucklehead.

Now, the knuckleheads want the government to bail them out for making a poor decision on trying to swindle someone into buying an overpriced home.

The market is doing what it's supposed to be doing. It's correcting itself.
It's survival of the fittest. The smart people sold and took the cash or didn't play the game at all. The stupid folks took too much risk and now have to either sell at a loss, or default to the mortgage company.

If they sell at a loss, they still have to reach into their pockets to pay the lender the difference. If they default and get the home repossesed by the lender, the mortgage company gets a home they can never sell to recoup their loss.

The best scenario is for these knuckleheads to move in with their parents and rent out the home for as much as they can. If they have to pay the difference of the mortgage out of pocket, it's easier that way.

The worst scenario is for the the government to pay someone for being stupid, out of taxes that you and I pay.


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## hillsidedigger (Sep 19, 2006)

We now have the second CAT5 hurricane of the season in the Atlantic with the possibility of a few more that may well proceed to populated coasts.

Most years there have been no CAT5 hurricanes in the Atlantic.

With regards to the rapture, I think it would be at the very end of the time of trouble.

My guess is that this month is just another month progressing toward some really bad times.


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## RockyGlen (Jan 19, 2007)

I must hang out at the same sites as the OP. I've been hearing for a year or more that things would start happening in Sept. of this year. One was a self proclaimed prophet that has a pretty good track record. I've heard economic collapse, terrorist attack, etc.

I do find it very interesting that of the last 8 guest preachers we have had (still looking for a minister), 7 of them have been about preparing for the end times. In a church that does not believe in a "Left Behind" type rapture. God working..........or is it just an exciting topic?


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## tn_junk (Nov 28, 2006)

Supposedly, and take this with a bunch of grains of salt, starting on 9/18/07 we will see a five year decline that will end with destruction of all that we know in September 2012. 
This is from a friend that claims interpretive powers in understanding the scriptures, and he refers specifically to the book of The Revelation (of course). I have known this gentleman since 1992 and he has never once waivered from this prediction.
Interestingly, if I understand correctly, the Mayan calendar also runs out in 2012.
Who Knows?

galump


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## Cyngbaeld (May 20, 2004)

Dunno, that crystal ball is still missing, or maybe I dropped it and it broke or something. LOL Stay prepped, prayed up and ready. Do what you are able and trust God for the rest.


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## Andy Nonymous (Aug 20, 2005)

BillHoo said:


> What makes you think that "this mortgage thing" is even broken?
> 
> The basics of the mortgage industry is:
> - Look at how much you make
> ...


 Baseline used to be 28-33% of annual household income, on fixed rate (~6%) loans. The bankers, in the quest for Unlimited Fractional Leverage of Funds, have been falling all over themselves to hand out loans, because it makes them "worth more!" (on paper). Now if half your loanee's income goes to an Adjustable Rate mortgage (at 3%, when written), and 40% goes to a car payment (or two), they have how much breathing room? Stupid? :doh: Then again, while your scenario and conclusion may apply in very large measure, there are a few hard working folks who for one reason or another needing a home in a particular area, were caught in a market gone nutz. Most of them won't be screaming for a 'bail-out', but will just 'do what needs to be done'. Meanwhile, the bankers are coming up on the smelly end of the stick because of their refusal to say "No" to those who really shouldn't have had loans of the size and type they were handing out. Greed. Still, the global economic repercussions of a collapsing RE market and failing lending institutions here... ("pay no attention to that debt behind the curtain! We are the great and powerful... Oh, look! a terrorist!") :hobbyhors

And how easy it is to spend someone else's money! ("because it's for their own good"), and what of that epitome of irresponsible borrowing: the gummymint itself? China (as the largest, but hardly the only 'investor') holds about 1 Trillion in US Treasury notes (plus a good pile of FRN's) - and what happens when the Treasury defaults? Do the Chinese foreclose? umm... (stay tuned, for the next exciting episode!)



> The worst scenario is for the the government to pay someone for being stupid, out of taxes that you and I pay.


 Too late: the pres, VP, cabinet and congress are already on the dole, and they make sure their 'strongest supporters' get what they want as well, no matter what it costs the tax payers (forever). 

Wait: doesn't that just make them cunning? And what does that say for the 'investors' that back them, and the populace that keeps electing them?

------------------
"Give me control of a nation's money and I care not who makes her laws." Mayer Amschel Rothschild

"All power corrupts; absolute power corrupts absolutely." 
John D Acton


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## Karen (Apr 17, 2002)

For thousands of years people have been certain that the end is just around the corner. Although I do think we need to take these predictions with a grain of salt, if we really do open our eyes and take a realistic look around us, it doesn't take any imagination at all to see that, if the SHTF is not almost on top of us, it surely will be before too much longer.

Besides all that has been mentioned, just take a good look at nature. It's even going crazy and, in a manner that we've never seen before. Although we've always had droughts, floods, hurricanes, tornadoes, earthquakes, volcanoes, and pestilence, never all at the same time as we are seeing today. Have you noticed that there is not even any "typical" weather seasons any where any more?

On the morning news today, for example, they talked about the high heat in the west; fires burning out of control; an approaching hurricane; the drought in the east; a tornado outside of Los Angeles; the floods in the southwest; sink holes; poor air alerts; and even an erupting volcano in Europe (the only volcano in Europe). All going on simotaniously.

I'm no gloom and doomer, but it sure makes you wonder!  My theory is to be ready at all times and then it doesn't really matter when it comes anyway.


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## Karen (Apr 17, 2002)

BillHoo, your not really correct. There are Truth in Lending issues associated with those loans. Many people (typically the uneducated) had no clue what they were signing up for in those home mortgage loans. But that's more of an issue for GC.


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## Guest (Sep 3, 2007)

Get prepped, stay prepped, then get on with living your life. A constant diet of worry is very bad for your health.

.....Alan.


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## Grace&Violets (Apr 4, 2007)

A.T. Hagan said:


> Get prepped, stay prepped, then get on with living your life. A constant diet of worry is very bad for your health.
> 
> .....Alan.


I agree. If you're constantly stressed about what may or may not happen, you're going to die from stress-related health issues...or just live miserably. Do what you can and let God take care of the rest.


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## fostermomma (Feb 26, 2007)

I heard that several months ago that well known preachers like Pat Robertson have said that the second half of this year would be horrible with storms and terrorist attacks. I am not saying I believe them I don't know them. I just thought it was interesting. I think like others that something is coming I just don't know when. I can only do what I can little at a time and the rest is out of my control.

I agree with get prepped, stay prepped, and leave the rest to God.


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## pancho (Oct 23, 2006)

Karen said:


> BillHoo, your not really correct. There are Truth in Lending issues associated with those loans. Many people (typically the uneducated) had no clue what they were signing up for in those home mortgage loans. But that's more of an issue for GC.


Recently the newspaper did a story about a local woman who was loosing her home 6 months after buying it. People were asked to donate so this woman could remain in her home.
The woman was a school bus driver who made approximately $26,000 a year.
She bought a $350,000 home with a variable interest rate with nothing down.


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## Wendy (May 10, 2002)

> Recently the newspaper did a story about a local woman who was loosing her home 6 months after buying it. People were asked to donate so this woman could remain in her home.
> The woman was a school bus driver who made approximately $26,000 a year.
> She bought a $350,000 home with a variable interest rate with nothing down.



Well, that is just dumb! Anyone that would help her try to keep a house that is so far out of what she should have is just as dumb. People need to buy what they can afford, not what the bank tells them they can afford.


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## Grace&Violets (Apr 4, 2007)

pancho said:


> Recently the newspaper did a story about a local woman who was loosing her home 6 months after buying it. People were asked to donate so this woman could remain in her home.
> The woman was a school bus driver who made approximately $26,000 a year.
> She bought a $350,000 home with a variable interest rate with nothing down.


How in the world did someone only making $26,000 a year get approved for a $350,000 house? And, wouldn't she have looked at the payments and known that she couldn't afford to pay more than her monthly salary on a house?


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## Karen (Apr 17, 2002)

Grace&Violets said:


> How in the world did someone only making $26,000 a year get approved for a $350,000 house? And, wouldn't she have looked at the payments and known that she couldn't afford to pay more than her monthly salary on a house?


Bingo! That's exactly the whole point and what the mortgage companies where doing. Just getting everyone they could possible get in to a hefty mortgage; convincing people they can have the American dream and afford it just fine. They feasted on ignorant people who would give anything to have a home as well as those who wanted the house of their dreams. At the time of signing their loans, these folks _could_ afford it. No one told them there would come a day when all that would change and they wouldn't be able to! 

The mortgage companies knew foreclosures would eventially come, but they didn't care. Where they messed up themselves is that the mortgage companies didn't expect it so soon and in such huge numbers.

They were just concerned about getting people into homes and they get to keep every penny of whatever the people have paid. Later they could foreclose, sell the property for what is owed, and still make a profit. The problem is (and what they didn't expect) was for the prime lending rate to increase as soon as it did, as well as that the bottom would fall out of the housing market.

Most of these loans were interest only payments; and then convinced people that, with wages increasing, economy growth, etc., they would be able to easily pay on the principal as they were able. The fine print was that the rates would increase after a certain point. But most of these people where never told that. They were rushed through the loan process and closing and just kept being told not to worry (most of them where with mortgage brokers who had them convinced that their jobs were to look out for the buyers best interest; and these people trusted them). They feed off people who didn't know better or who would just do anything to get a home and get out of an apartment; large families; the economically ignorant; etc.

The really bad thing is that these people don't realize that after foreclosure, what ever the house didn't bring at auction, the court awards a judgment, for the mortgage company, against the previous owner. So if you got foreclosed and had a $200,000 mortgage, and the house sold at auction for $50,000, then you will have a Judgment hanging over your head of $150,000. A Judgment can be collected on by any means permissible under law - including seizing bank accounts, paid for vehicles, and in most states -- garnishment of wages. So these people are in bigger trouble than they even realized. 

Take the lady in the above case. Since she's going to have to pay for that house anyway, whether she lives in it or not, if people can contribute to keep her there until she can either sell it, rent it for mortgage payments, or refiance, she's ahead of the game rather than just allowing foreclosure. 

Put all this together and it makes for one big huge mess!


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## pancho (Oct 23, 2006)

Grace&Violets said:


> How in the world did someone only making $26,000 a year get approved for a $350,000 house? And, wouldn't she have looked at the payments and known that she couldn't afford to pay more than her monthly salary on a house?



Interest only loans with deferred payments. We live in an area hit by Katrina. Some people have the idea the govt. will pay for them a new home. They don't ever think they will have to pay for them, just get the loan and apply for benefits. Sometimes it works, this one didn't.

A couple of mortgage companies were selling houses where the loans were given because of the appraisal of some brokers. The same brokers would do another appraisal the same day and say the house was worth $100,000 more than the first appraisal. Another loan would be give with the info from this new appraisal. The owner would pocket the difference.
They were caught and some people were left holding houses they could not afford or even plan on keeping longer than a week.


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## Chuck-prime (Jul 24, 2007)

r.h. in okla. said:


> This morning our pastor mentioned to us all, "Get yourself in order with God, cause terrible things are gonna start happening across America." "Don't think the rapture is gonna keep you safe cause it maynot even be time for the rapture yet".


That's the rub.

By the time the Anti-christ promotes the 7-year covenant with Israel, he will have already been in power. And if he's already in power, then that means we've decreased as a political-economic-military power _("Can anyone make war with the Beast?")_

As a cub of Tarshish (we're an offspring of Spain) - Ezekiel 38 - we'll only have the power to tell Russia as she marches down to Megiddo to say _"Have you come for a spoil?"_

Hard times first, then the Lord's _taking up?_ But that's okay; times like these have a tendency to wake up a lot of people.


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## Chuck-prime (Jul 24, 2007)

susieM said:


> Well...
> Cheney seems determined to attack Iran in the near future.
> New soldiers are being paid $20,000 if they'll sign up and be willing to go to war by the end of the month.
> The Florida National Guard will be going to Washington to protect somebody.
> ...



Droughts and heatwaves in some areas, _record-breaking rains and floods in others._

If the plan to destroy Iran's military is for real, we won't go. It's my opinion the LORD will stop us. Iran has to meet up at Megiddo (but Irag doesn't) - Ezekiel 38.

But that's my beliefs.


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## Chuck-prime (Jul 24, 2007)

A.T. Hagan said:


> Get prepped, stay prepped, then get on with living your life. A constant diet of worry is very bad for your health.
> 
> .....Alan.


Amen to that!


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## Chuck-prime (Jul 24, 2007)

Karen said:


> The really bad thing is that these people don't realize that after foreclosure, what ever the house didn't bring at auction, the court awards a judgment, for the mortgage company, against the previous owner. So if you got foreclosed and had a $200,000 mortgage, and the house sold at auction for $50,000, then you will have a Judgment hanging over your head of $150,000. A Judgment can be collected on by any means permissible under law - including seizing bank accounts, paid for vehicles, and in most states -- garnishment of wages. So these people are in bigger trouble than they even realized.


When did this take into effect? Is this the result of those 'new' bankcruptcy laws over a year ago?

Pretty soon people will be living in cars and vans, but I believe that in some states this is against the law, like Alabama.


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## sgl42 (Jan 20, 2004)

I'm not part of any religeous community, so I can't speak for any predictions from that area.

In the financial community, there have been quite a few bears that have been predicting problems coming home to roost for quite some time, altho I haven't seen lots of predictions all centered around a particular time frame. 

There are some long wave cycles analysis in the financial world, eg, Kondratieff waves, that say we're due for a Kondratieff winter, which is a decade or more of hard times and credit contraction. (The last Kondratieff winter was the 1930's; there were other ones before that.) Many would argue the cycle started in 2000 with the tech bust.

In the natural world, I personally think Peak Oil is a fairly compelling theory, and will be quite a problem for the USA as the largest user of oil. As for other natural events, eg, droughts, I haven't seen any analysis that shows that it's really worse that prior variations in the seasons (but I haven't looked for any either). Remember several years ago when lots of shark attacks hit the news? Turns out the number of incidents hadn't risen at all, it's just that once one newscaster writes a story, every other news outlet thinks they have to make a story about it too. So, I'm agnostic on any of the weather change/drought cycle predictions -- ie, they might be true, they might be false, I don't really know.

As for politics, there seems to be a rise in nationalism across the globe, including very strongly here in the USA. Usually this causes problems, often major wars. I doubt this cycle will be different.

Whether "This Month" will be any particular event or not, I don't know. However, my sense is lots of things behind the scenes are accelerating, and sometime soon lots of things will unravel to the point they'll be more visible to the public. 

--sgl


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## sgl42 (Jan 20, 2004)

Karen said:


> The really bad thing is that these people don't realize that after foreclosure, what ever the house didn't bring at auction, the court awards a judgment, for the mortgage company, against the previous owner. So if you got foreclosed and had a $200,000 mortgage, and the house sold at auction for $50,000, then you will have a Judgment hanging over your head of $150,000. A Judgment can be collected on by any means permissible under law - including seizing bank accounts, paid for vehicles, and in most states -- garnishment of wages. So these people are in bigger trouble than they even realized.


I'm not sure, but I believe this varies by state, and perhaps by some other criteria. I believe some states are non-recourse, (meaning they cannot do anything other than take back the house, they cannot take any other assets), and other states are recourse. Also, I vaguely remember reading something about some original loans would be non-recourse, but a refinance would become recourse. 

Lastly, the amount lost by the bank (ie, $150,000 in your example above) would in many cases become "Forgiveness of debt" and considered taxable by the IRS. There is already discussion of changing this, at least for a time, due to the mortgage crisis.

But regardless of the details, it is a huge mess, and there's a lot of "gotcha's" that are going to really surprise people that believed "real estate only goes up" and that they got a piece of the "American Dream". 

--sgl


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## Chuck-prime (Jul 24, 2007)

sgl42 said:


> There are some long wave cycles analysis in the financial world, eg, Kondratieff waves, that say we're due for a Kondratieff winter, which is a decade or more of hard times and credit contraction. (The last Kondratieff winter was the 1930's; there were other ones before that.) Many would argue the cycle started in 2000 with the tech bust.


I think it should have happened in 2000 too, but the gov kicked in and have been manipulating since, doing everything they can to prolong the inevitable
(If I were in charge, I'd probably do the same thing).



sgl42 said:


> .In the natural world, I personally think Peak Oil is a fairly compelling theory, and will be quite a problem for the USA as the largest user of oil. As for other natural events, eg, droughts, I haven't seen any analysis that shows that it's really worse that prior variations in the seasons (but I haven't looked for any either). Remember several years ago when lots of shark attacks hit the news? Turns out the number of incidents hadn't risen at all, it's just that once one newscaster writes a story, every other news outlet thinks they have to make a story about it too. So, I'm agnostic on any of the weather change/drought cycle predictions -- ie, they might be true, they might be false, I don't really know.l


Recently, though, fruits in Florida/California have been diseased/frozen out, the wheat production has been reduced, less marketable meat, and a huge percentage of bees have been dying off.

6 times in our history, a depression was preceded by both a famine and a recession at the same time. We're just about there.



sgl42 said:


> Whether "This Month" will be any particular event or not, I don't know. However, my sense is lots of things behind the scenes are accelerating, and sometime soon lots of things will unravel to the point they'll be more visible to the public.


Once the masses know, then that's it.
Personally, I'm amazed there hasn't been a mass panic yet, bank run and all. People simply aren't paying attention.

But that's the rub; the more time we have before this occurs, it's to our advantage, but the situation gets worse and worse.


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## Chuck-prime (Jul 24, 2007)

Just read from the dailyreckoning.com that wheat prices in Italy are going up, up.

Wheat shortages/price hikes are building in momentum.


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## Spinner (Jul 19, 2003)

BillHoo said:


> The basics of the mortgage industry is:
> - Look at how much you make
> - Take out a mortage whose monthly payments are no more than 51 percent of what you make per month.
> - If you can't afford the payments don't buy the house/take the mortgage
> ...


 When did they change it to 51% of your income can be assigned for a mortgage? I've always been taught that you never want your mortgage to be more than 25% of your income. The only exception was that if you own your car, furniture, etc. and won't be going into debt on anything other than the home, then you might stretch it to 30%, but that was starting to enter the danger zone. 

People have forgotten how to save up for a downpayment. When I was young you had to pay from 20% - 30% down depending on how good your credit was. It was unheard of to buy a house unless you had a large downpayment and good credit.


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## Texas_Plainsman (Aug 26, 2007)

sgl42 said:


> I'm not sure, but I believe this varies by state, and perhaps by some other criteria. I believe some states are non-recourse, (meaning they cannot do anything other than take back the house, they cannot take any other assets), and other states are recourse. Also, I vaguely remember reading something about some original loans would be non-recourse, but a refinance would become recourse.
> 
> Lastly, the amount lost by the bank (ie, $150,000 in your example above) would in many cases become "Forgiveness of debt" and considered taxable by the IRS. There is already discussion of changing this, at least for a time, due to the mortgage crisis.
> 
> ...


There was a couple in the paper that lost their $106,000.00 home to foreclosure. The IRS says they owe $34,000.00 because of the foreclosure. Of course this is garbage but I guess we like it as we don't do anything about it?


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## Karen (Apr 17, 2002)

sgl42 said:


> However, my sense is lots of things behind the scenes are accelerating, and sometime soon lots of things will unravel to the point they'll be more visible to the public.
> 
> --sgl


This is what I'm seeing too. Things going wrong in politics, nature, economics, disease, etc. are all _accelerating _ -- to say nothing of what's happening behind the scenes that we don't hear about too often. Sooner or later, it's only common sense that it's all going to join together for a true SHTF situation. Just combine any 2 and you have a severe domino effect on all the rest.

I think the real question is just how bad it will get and for how long? 

Personally, I don't think many are in a position to face a really bad situation, let alone to face it for a very long period of time. If things do get bad and it's for a long period of time (more than a couple of months), I'm not so sure how people will react. I'm hoping they will find the strength to work together; but, I fear even the average Joe will panic and start doing stupid things. 

It isn't the situation that scares me -- it's the nuts that turn to doing whatever they feel they need to do to get what they feel they need. So many just can't grasp the connection of what you "need" verses what you "want". Cities, especially, will be a pretty dangerous place to be and those who grasp that fact will be heading out to the country. Those will not have the means to take care of themselves for very long and I'm not so sure how "sharing" the country folks, who were prepared, will be. 

I sure do hope we will all see each other as human beings doing the best we can and be willing to share and help each other get through it, but if I even consider the majority of past comments made in this forum (as being an indicater of the rest of population), things look pretty grim how those in need will be treated. It seems it will be everyone for themselves. That's what frightens and saddens me. :Bawling:


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## suburbanite (Jul 27, 2006)

I could avoid starving, but only if the city water service stays on.


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## brosil (Dec 15, 2003)

Come On. Guys, it's just September. That's just the general unease of going into winter. Just eat more pasta and potatoes and fatten up already.


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## Chuck-prime (Jul 24, 2007)

brosil said:


> Come On. Guys, it's just September. That's just the general unease of going into winter. Just eat more pasta and potatoes and fatten up already.


And the best time to eat is after midnight!
Sounds like a plan!


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## Cyngbaeld (May 20, 2004)

The IRS came after a friend of mine because his ex wife let the house go into foreclosure. He didn't even have his name on the note anymore. Didn't make any diff, the IRS grabbed his return and sent him a bill for the tax on the difference in what she owed and what the house sold for.


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## AngieM2 (May 10, 2002)

What bothers me most about all this mortgage talk.. is around here the "inexpensive" houses start at about $190K - and from a builder that I've been told builds in slip-shoddy manner. I don't know why they cannot build a nice medium sized rance house for under $100K?

So you can either look for something you might afford - let's say payments of about $500 a month ($65 - %75K roughly) and find a 'fixer" and pay more money. But all theses brilliant builders build to the max, and the 'regular" people, or ones' that don't want to hock their souls for a house, have nothing to chose from.

And it's worse in other parts of the country from what I see on tv and hear on these and other forums.

Angie


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## Bwana (Jul 9, 2006)

BillHoo said:


> What makes you think that "this mortgage thing" is even broken?
> 
> The basics of the mortgage industry is:
> - Look at how much you make
> ...


Thanks for the voice of common sense! It brings a tear to my eye to occasionally hear "problems" explained properly...snif  That was one thing GWB said recently that I liked (remember, I voted for him twice), when asked about bailing out mortgage companies (IIRC) he said something to the effect of "We're not going to pay for other's stupidity." That was a paraphrase. He said too many were speculating in the real estate market and made foolish decisions and he's right.

Dave


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## Chuck-prime (Jul 24, 2007)

Back to the original intent of this thread...

Folks, please look up what George Ure of urbansurvival.com put up concerning the Dow today vs. 1929 vs. 1987.


http://urbansurvival.com (click to Free Daily Update)

or

http://www.urbansurvival.com/week.htm


According to him, we're at the very "re-arranging chairs on the Titanic" precipice prior to a crash. 

Any thoughts?


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## jlxian (Feb 14, 2005)

I am scrambling to pay off debt as quickly as possible. These posts have really put the fear into me about economics and what is just down the road.


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## Ardie/WI (May 10, 2002)

When I was growing up, all I heard about was "the end of the world"!. My nutcase of a mother was constantly carrying on about it, God rest her tormented soul. 

There were predictions as in 1952, blood would run in the streets of Green Bay,WI! Well, I was 10 and waited that whole year and the only blood might have been by the meat packing company! Ya' think I got a bit skeptical!

Well, here I am at age 65 and the end of the world hasn't happened yet and if it does, so be it!


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## suburbanite (Jul 27, 2006)

Problems can be managed. It is easier to manage them if you plan ahead.

'end of the world' is hyperbole. but watching the horizon for danger and adjusting course accordingly makes sense.


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## Karen (Apr 17, 2002)

WIHH, I know what you mean. I've been preparing for years but I doubt anyone could ever be truly prepared for a total and complete breakdown that would last indefinitely. In fact, I think a person would drive themselves crazy trying.

Personally, I'd think we would all probably be better off for the end of the world than for a true total collapse. I'm not so sure I want to be around to fight for survival against our neighbors, those in need, and ourselves. I really think society could turn pretty evil when faced with such a challenge. It would start out okay (maybe), but I think society as a whole would deteriorate pretty quickly when people are starving and you have a family you are trying to keep alive.

Over the years, I've just kind of come to the conclusion that, all you can do is what you can do. You can't possibly prepare for every thing that could possibly happen; nor can you really prepare for the absolute worst. I don't have the financial means nor storage space to do so; and even if I did, someone is more than likely to come and take it all away from me any way. 

So all we can do is: lay low, plan and prepare _to the best of our ability _ without getting obsessed by it, and put the rest in God's hands. When the time comes, there is just going to be a whole lot of things that only God can help with any way. 

We all feel so certain we know how things will be, but I'm totally convinced we really have no real clue since we have nothing to compare it to. Looking at history tells us little. Society, economics, and politics today are _extremely different_ from any before us. We can only speculate, but cannot predict how it will _really_ all play out.


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## BillHoo (Mar 16, 2005)

Spinner said:


> When did they change it to 51% of your income can be assigned for a mortgage? I've always been taught that you never want your mortgage to be more than 25% of your income. The only exception was that if you own your car, furniture, etc. and won't be going into debt on anything other than the home, then you might stretch it to 30%, but that was starting to enter the danger zone.
> 
> People have forgotten how to save up for a downpayment. When I was young you had to pay from 20% - 30% down depending on how good your credit was. It was unheard of to buy a house unless you had a large downpayment and good credit.


Forgive me about the 51 percent. That's what my stupid realtor told me when I was renting out a property to some folks and questioned that their Total income was 50K a year and the rent I was charging was 51 percent of their income. I always went by the 31 percent rule, though I've even seen 41 percent published as a standard.

The point I was making was that the government/my tax dollars should not be used to bail out some idiot who was probably trying a get rich quick scheme.


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## BillHoo (Mar 16, 2005)

pancho said:


> Recently the newspaper did a story about a local woman who was loosing her home 6 months after buying it. People were asked to donate so this woman could remain in her home.
> The woman was a school bus driver who made approximately $26,000 a year.
> She bought a $350,000 home with a variable interest rate with nothing down.


I cannot see that happening. I had a friend who was bipolar, schizoaffective and stopped paying her mortgage for a year (told me the aliens were going to make her rich and she was going to marry a multimillionaire friend of the Clinton's).

I tried to help her out and called her mortgage lender. they suspected something funky was going on and told me it takes them (in NJ) about 2 years before they can legally start legal action to foreclose. The lender then told me, that if she makes some "good faith" payments, that foreclosure deadline can be extended for even more time. The mortgage company does not want to get into the real estate business.

Eventually, they foreclosed on her at the 2 year mark.

People being foreclosed on are ignoring the banks and not sending in a single dime! Hardworking people will get nasty grams, but as long as they can negotiate and send a few bucks to the bank, they will not lose their homes.

As for the school bus driver, I suspect there is more going on there. Or it's a sensationalist story put out there by the same powers that are cashing in on getting the government to bail out these bad loans.


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## BillHoo (Mar 16, 2005)

Karen said:


> BillHoo, your not really correct. There are Truth in Lending issues associated with those loans. Many people (typically the uneducated) had no clue what they were signing up for in those home mortgage loans. But that's more of an issue for GC.


Well, then I would sue my real estate attorny if he let that happen to me. And anyone who goes into a real estate closing without a lawyer is a damned fool.

When I bought my first home, we went to the signing and my attorney scrutinized the documents and realized that the builder who had made all these nice homes, didn't even own the real estate on which the community was built!

Their attorney said that they will take care of that once the community has been finished building. My attorney advised me to walk away. They rectified the situation with the land owner and changed the contract and I signed three weeks later.

It's a hard lesson, but I would not want my tax dollars to pay for some idiot's foolish mistakes.


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## BillHoo (Mar 16, 2005)

Wind in Her Hair said:


> September? As in now??!?!?!?
> 
> truly, even with a "deadline" (imaginary or self-imposed), I know full well that I WON'T be ready for TEOTWAWKI (I have trouble wrapping my mind around exactly what life would be like with the complete and total breakdown of literally everything - I mean, I know how to _can_, but in a few years even my stockpiles of canning lids and gaskets will run out and if there are no manufacturers making them because people are struggling to find FOOD and WATER in a post apolyptical chaos - so after that? :shrug: Whats a gal to do?
> 
> ...


Yes, those canned goods will be worth more than gold when everything gets contaminated by a full nuclear exchange with the Russians or Chinese. We have not been so friendly with them lately and they still have nukes!


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## BillHoo (Mar 16, 2005)

Karen said:


> .....So all we can do is: lay low, plan and prepare _to the best of our ability _ without getting obsessed by it, and put the rest in God's hands. When the time comes, there is just going to be a whole lot of things that only God can help with any way.
> 
> We all feel so certain we know how things will be, but I'm totally convinced we really have no real clue since we have nothing to compare it to. Looking at history tells us little. Society, economics, and politics today are _extremely different_ from any before us. We can only speculate, but cannot predict how it will _really_ all play out.


God help's those who help themselves. Best is to be prepared with lawyers, guns and money. When I was in Iraq, it was a chore getting the local Iraqi workers to do anything. They'd have to move a pile of wood to build homes for themselves and the western foreman would tell them where it had to go. These guys would answer "Insh'Allah" (meaning God willing) it will be done. 

We had to constantly correct them, "No. Not God willing! YOU willing! That wood, ain't going to move itself!"

All empires eventually crumble. The Mayans killed each other off. The Egyptians cut down all the forrests along to Nile to fuel their world reknowned pottery empire, the lost empire of Angkor fell due to a mismanagement of water resources. What will be the downfall of the American Empire?


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## pancho (Oct 23, 2006)

BillHoo said:


> I cannot see that happening. I had a friend who was bipolar, schizoaffective and stopped paying her mortgage for a year (told me the aliens were going to make her rich and she was going to marry a multimillionaire friend of the Clinton's).
> 
> I tried to help her out and called her mortgage lender. they suspected something funky was going on and told me it takes them (in NJ) about 2 years before they can legally start legal action to foreclose. The lender then told me, that if she makes some "good faith" payments, that foreclosure deadline can be extended for even more time. The mortgage company does not want to get into the real estate business.
> 
> ...



In the local newspaper today. Our state is #1 in the number of delinquent mortgages. According to ACORN the leading reason is the subprime adjustable rate mortgages. As an example it gave the story of a woman who had purchased a $60,000 home. She received a low rate introductory interest rate of 2%. She bought the home in July 2006. The adjustable interest rate has climbed to 11.75%.


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## Chuck-prime (Jul 24, 2007)

Wind in Her Hair said:


> September? As in now??!?!?!?
> 
> truly, even with a "deadline" (imaginary or self-imposed), I know full well that I WON'T be ready for TEOTWAWKI (I have trouble wrapping my mind around exactly what life would be like with the complete and total breakdown of literally everything - I mean, I know how to _can_, but in a few years even my stockpiles of canning lids and gaskets will run out and if there are no manufacturers making them because people are struggling to find FOOD and WATER in a post apolyptical chaos - so after that? :shrug: Whats a gal to do?
> 
> ...



The very best situation, I think, is being in the midst of a group of trusted people.

For example

There are a number of widows and single women (without families) in my church to which, in the event of a Things-HTF scenario, it would probably be best if they were in one location under the protection of, for a lack of better term, _warrior types_.

Protecting every single one individually is simply going to be impossible, and selfish.


Living in the city would be bad news. Living in the mountains would be bad news. But a community of 3,000, who have various-needed skills....now that would work better.


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## Chuck-prime (Jul 24, 2007)

jlxian said:


> I am scrambling to pay off debt as quickly as possible. These posts have really put the fear into me about economics and what is just down the road.


Imagine not having a head start.


Funny thing is, I've warned a number of people, and they actually have _mental assent_ in agreeing with these matters.

_But as usual, they're still trading in for more expensive cars and pontoon boats...lots of nonsense._
One ear in and one ear out. It seems that they think it'll happen _after their lifetime._


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## hillsidedigger (Sep 19, 2006)

I wouldn't plan any trips for next Tuesday.


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## Chuck-prime (Jul 24, 2007)

BillHoo said:


> All empires eventually crumble. The Mayans killed each other off. The Egyptians cut down all the forrests along to Nile to fuel their world reknowned pottery empire, the lost empire of Angkor fell due to a mismanagement of water resources. What will be the downfall of the American Empire?



That's a good question. Babylon fell in one night. 


Since the Babylonian Empire, power has shifted East to West. Will continue to do so until it goes to Europe. We'll probably follow the way of Weihmar Germany. Worldwide, I mean.


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## Chuck-prime (Jul 24, 2007)

hillsidedigger said:


> I wouldn't plan any trips for next Tuesday.




If you'd be willing to tell us, what happens on Tuesday?
A multi-state _test scenario?_


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## Aintlifegrand (Jun 3, 2005)

hillsidedigger said:


> I wouldn't plan any trips for next Tuesday.


Plan any trips by what? Plane or just in general? Any particular region or all areas?


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## AngieM2 (May 10, 2002)

hillsidedigger said:


> I wouldn't plan any trips for next Tuesday.



Does this mean I don't need to "travel" to work that day? (10 miles)  

Please do explain further if it really means anything to you.

Angie


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## Grace&Violets (Apr 4, 2007)

I think he's (or she?) just means that next Tuesday is 9/11 and Bin Laden's video tape is due out a couple days before that.


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## diane (May 4, 2002)

No one can be prepared for everything. We just can't. We can be mentally prepared and have the attitude that we most like will have to look after ourselves for awhile if something bad happens. It is the millions and millions of people living in lala land that think things can just go on like they are forever that worry me. I heard on the radio this evening that the mortgage default rate is now just as high as it was during the depression in quite a few states. A lot of people were duped into thinking that the housing market values would continue to climb at the same rate they had been and over extended themselves. Some of them actually had enough brains that they should have know better but they didn't. 

I have always lived below my means and stayed out of debt. It really tees me off that they are talking about using my tax dollars to bail these lenders out that made the bad loans.


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## Karen (Apr 17, 2002)

All the "experts" are predicting the next major US terrorist attack to be a dirty bomb set simultaneously to go off in 3 different major cities. 

I can't even fathom what will happen to this country when 3 nuclear bombs go off in 3 separate major cities. That could certainly start the chain reaction to a collapse of some type. To say nothing of marshal law and how politics and law changes will play into all of that. Say a good-bye to freedom!

I'm not sure if that will actually happen or not, but it's growing easier to see how something could happen to where we need to be ready at any given moment. 

The one thing that has me concerned........

What in the world will I do without Internet??????? :baby04:


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## pancho (Oct 23, 2006)

Karen said:


> All the "experts" are predicting the next major US terrorist attack to be a dirty bomb set simultaneously to go off in 3 different major cities.
> 
> I can't even fathom what will happen to this country when 3 nuclear bombs go off in 3 separate major cities. That could certainly start the chain reaction to a collapse of some type. To say nothing of marshal law and how politics and law changes will play into all of that. Say a good-bye to freedom!
> 
> ...


Lots of difference in a dirty bomb and a nuclear bomb.


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## Aintlifegrand (Jun 3, 2005)

pancho said:


> Lots of difference in a dirty bomb and a nuclear bomb.



True..but bomb in general will freak the masses out..and me. I'm with you Karen...I need my internet and refrigerator.. ( how on earth will I keep my diet coke cold)... :Bawling:


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## Chuck-prime (Jul 24, 2007)

Karen said:


> What in the world will I do without Internet??????? :baby04:


Guess this means good-bye! :Bawling:


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## Chuck-prime (Jul 24, 2007)

pancho said:


> Lots of difference in a dirty bomb and a nuclear bomb.


One is certainly less painful than the other, depending on where you're standing.


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## Chuck-prime (Jul 24, 2007)

Aintlifegrand said:


> True..but bomb in general will freak the masses out..and me. I'm with you Karen...I need my internet and refrigerator.. ( how on earth will I keep my diet coke cold)... :Bawling:


If you survive till nuclear winter...no need to worry then :baby04:


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## BillHoo (Mar 16, 2005)

Aintlifegrand said:


> True..but bomb in general will freak the masses out..and me. I'm with you Karen...I need my internet and refrigerator.. ( how on earth will I keep my diet coke cold)... :Bawling:



I'm still trying to figure out how Doc Brown built that coal fire-powered refrigerator.


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## BillHoo (Mar 16, 2005)

hillsidedigger said:


> I wouldn't plan any trips for next Tuesday.


I'm working in a five-sided building just outside DC on Tuesday. The bedroom in my Arlington apartment is just across the street and faces it. Last year on 9-11, I made sure to sleep in the guest room which is on the other side of the building.

Luckily, I work the night shift, so I'll be out of the building during the morning rush.


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## hillsidedigger (Sep 19, 2006)

Tuesday will be the first September 11 to be a Tuesday since 2001, may not mean anything.


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## AngieM2 (May 10, 2002)

Thanks Hillside - guess I just skimmed right over that date fact...

Hmmmm - I sure remember that morning. It would be a target date that some nut may find too tempting not to try something...

Angie


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## KindredSpirit (Feb 16, 2006)

Let's remember that several September 11th's have passed since the attacks. Sometimes the best strategy for an enemy is to keep their opponent always on edge. I personally think that is the intent of the upcoming video. I intend to live my life, frugally, but fully. There are too many "what if's" in life as it is. I think the worry will wear you down eventually, it can't be healthy. All of the people reading on this board are of the homesteading mindset. We shall persevere!! LOL Deep breaths!!


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## Becca65 (Jul 13, 2005)

Hmmm, hopefully it will wait until Oct 1st.. Sept 28th is my birthday..lol


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## RockyGlen (Jan 19, 2007)

Karen said:


> Over the years, I've just kind of come to the conclusion that, all you can do is what you can do. You can't possibly prepare for every thing that could possibly happen; nor can you really prepare for the absolute worst. I don't have the financial means nor storage space to do so; and even if I did, someone is more than likely to come and take it all away from me any way.
> 
> *So all we can do is: lay low, plan and prepare to the best of our ability  without getting obsessed by it, and put the rest in God's hands. When the time comes, there is just going to be a whole lot of things that only God can help with any way. *


Wise words! Also the way I keep things in perspective. I could allow myself to become obsessed with prepping for this, that and the other contingency....or I can do what is reasonable and leave the rest in God's hands. 

WIHH - you mentioned running out of canning gaskets and lids after a few years - that's when you use an air solar dryer and dry all your food to preserve it.


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## wombatcat (Mar 29, 2005)

BillHoo said:


> What makes you think that "this mortgage thing" is even broken?
> 
> .......
> What you have now is knuckleheads who thought that they could get variable rate mortgages with nothing down. They speculated that the overinflated value of the home would go up before they would have to pay any real money. Then they would sell the overpriced home to some chump and run off with the cash!
> ...


I think that the reason so many people are up in arms about the housing situation isn't so much that stupid lenders gave stupid people stupid loans, it's that now that the piper wants to be paid (aka the natural correction you referred to), those lenders have sold those mortgages to people/banks/funds who were misinformed about the potential risk involved.

So now besides stupid lenders and stupid borrowers, you've got these people/banks/funds who are saying, HEY, I WANT MY MONEY BACK!
But the lenders aren't able to do much of that, because their loans are being foreclosed on, and property values are going down.

Some of those banks/funds have invested peoples' 401k's in direct relation to these loans. And mutual funds. And regular pensions. And a lot of those stupid lenders have been supplying the bread and butter for thousands of people. Albeit those people do share some of the blame for all the greed and stupidity, but adding thousands of people out of work to the mix is definitely not going to help matters, especially since there is not much of a market for mortgage lenders and mortgage professionals these days :1pig:

So I think that if it was just a "natural correction" that only affected the greedy people, that would be one thing. But if your 401k is in the mix, and all you did was the "right" thing, saving for retirement, then aren't you likely to be a little (or a lot) worried? I think that is why the gov is going to try to come up with some sort of solution. Because it affects a lot more people than you see at first glance.


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## uyk7 (Dec 1, 2002)

I keep reading how borrowers are at fault. While that may be the case in some instances I think the average borrower was "lead" by their mortgage lenders to buy bigger/more. Here is a scenario:

Buyer: wants an affordable two bedroom home

Lender: with an adjustable rate mortage you can get this four bedroom home so that when/if you need more room it is available. Your payments would not go up for a while and as your payments increase you would be receiving pay raises to cover the extra expense.

Buyer: what if the interest rate goes up?

Lender: the rates are historically low and home prices continue to rise. Right now is the time to really get the home you want

Buyer: well, if you think I can get it, let's do it

As someone else has already mentioned, most people do not understand how the mortgages work. I don't have much of a clue myself. Someone also mentioned having a lawyer with you prior to signing; must be nice to be able to pay a lawyer for something like this. I cannot even afford a lawyer when I am in the right.


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## Ardie/WI (May 10, 2002)

Next Tuesday, our septic system may get pumped. Should I worry?


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## kmam10 (Aug 5, 2007)

DH and I have moved quite a bit, and owned a house or condo most of the time. When the realtors found out our household income, and then how much we were willing to spend on a home, they always tried to talk us 'up', pointing out that what we wanted was a mere fraction of what the banks would lend us, and this was before the past few years of easy credit. We told them to either show us houses in the range we specified or we would find another broker. We knew what the banks said we could afford, and we knew what made us comfortable. There was a very large difference. It is the borrowers fault for the most part, they got greedy.


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## KindredSpirit (Feb 16, 2006)

uyk7 said:


> As someone else has already mentioned, most people do not understand how the mortgages work. I don't have much of a clue myself. Someone also mentioned having a lawyer with you prior to signing; must be nice to be able to pay a lawyer for something like this. I cannot even afford a lawyer when I am in the right.


Hi Kmam10, welcome to the board!!  If someone can't afford a few hundred dollars for the attorney, they may not be able to afford a house. Houses tend to need repairs when you least expect it. I personally can't imagine signing something that binds me (financially) for the next 30 years if I don't understand what I am signing. Not trying to pick a fight. Just another point of view. It seems to me there should be some accountability on the buyer's part. Everyone makes bad financial decisions, buying more of a house than you can afford is one of them.


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## HomesteadBaker (Feb 8, 2006)

My husband and I are not "doom and gloomers", we prep because it makes sense. We have been through horrible weather (snowstorms lasting for days, area floods, tornadoes), sickness, unemployment and under-employment, and now toxic food from an allegedly safe food supply system. We raise our own food (animal, vegetable, fruit), we buy whole foods in bulk and process it ourselves. And, should "something" happen,we live in a very strategic (yet hidden) place, necessary skills are honed, defense measures are in place and include 4 huge dogs. We have not done all of this overnight, we are always evolving some aspect of our homestead on a gradual, yet continual, basis.

Our latest project in the works is a 10 x 30 lean-to type greenhouse that will be built from recycled (read "FREE") windows. We have plenty of sun here even in the winter, so it will also help heat the house as there will be an air passage in the shared wall.

Kitty


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## BillHoo (Mar 16, 2005)

uyk7 said:


> .....As someone else has already mentioned, most people do not understand how the mortgages work. I don't have much of a clue myself. Someone also mentioned having a lawyer with you prior to signing; must be nice to be able to pay a lawyer for something like this. I cannot even afford a lawyer when I am in the right.


I suppose you drive a car without insurance to save a few bucks too?

Ultimately, the lenders are not at fault as the ultimate decision to sign is on the shoulders of the borrower. There are very few instances of lenders holding guns to the heads of customers saying "Buy this house at this rate or I'll shoot you!"

The lenders are out to make the sale. They are not your friend. They can be persuasive and appeal to any one of the sins you care to indulge in, but they cannot force you to sign.

Yesssssss. Ssssssign here and and all your dreamsssss will come true. Women will love you for your grand home. You childrens will adore you. Your wife will be ssssssso happy. Living in a better neighborhood makessss you jusssst as good assssss all the other high rollersssss. Your friendsss and family will be sssso enviousssss. Sssssssign here now. Sssssign your ssssssoul! And if you default, don't worry. Sssssomeone elsssse will take care of you. That'ssss what welfare issss for.

The borrower is legally bound when they sign that paper. Yes, you save about $900 by not having a lawyer check all that legal mumbo jumbo. Heck! I don't know what the paper says, but I'll sign it anyway!

Then you find yourself liable for a $350,000.00 mortage that you cannot pay.

Yup. Must be real smart to save that $900.00! I can afford to sign for a $350,000.00 house, but not $900.00 for a lawyer!


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## Karen (Apr 17, 2002)

kmam10 said:


> DH and I have moved quite a bit, and owned a house or condo most of the time. When the Realtors found out our household income, and then how much we were willing to spend on a home, they always tried to talk us 'up', pointing out that what we wanted was a mere fraction of what the banks would lend us, and this was before the past few years of easy credit. We told them to either show us houses in the range we specified or we would find another broker. We knew what the banks said we could afford, and we knew what made us comfortable. There was a very large difference. It is the borrowers fault for the most part, they got greedy.


I'm very happy for you that you had the knowledge and sense to do that; however, I don't think people realize that isn't the case for many and, neither is it because they are greedy. 

They just simply don't know and trusted their lender/realtor/mortgage broker because they believe them to be "experts" -- therefore, to them, _they were given expert and correct advice_. Not everyone has common sense or are educated enough to understand or know when they are getting a bad deal.

As far as having an attorney, there again, it may be common sense for some people, but in the real world, it isn't for everyone else. When I first started in law, I worked for real estate attorney. You'd be totally amazed how many people there out there who think that if you have title insurance you don't need an attorney as long as it's not a owner finance or land contract; or you don't need an attorney if the closing papers are being prepared by your title company. After all the lenders/title company/brokers/etc. all work for you (or so they think).  They don't realize all the other problems that exist. 

Also, bear in mind that an attorney doesn't advise a client about the financial end of the transaction. He isn't even privy to their financial situation. His job is to review and be be certain the title insurance and paperwork is in order and in legal context according to law; and that an additional document isn't snuck in there with contrary wording that would either nullify the transaction, etc.

If anyone is greedy, it was the realty and mortgage companies for taking advantage of people who just didn't know better or were ill advised.


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## charles burns (Mar 21, 2006)

Ya know, thinking on the _hypnotising_ theme in BillHoo's post, some sales techniques are beyond hypnosis.

_Price Priming_ where an extortionate figure is mentioned when discussing the price of what you want to buy and left to play on your mind for a while before a much lower figure is offered to you. In relation to the high figure first mentioned, the second lower figure seems like a steal no matter that it's still overpriced. _This model is, let me see ....$500.00. Just a moment though, I think we have a promotion on this item ...yes, I can give it to you for $200.00_ After being primed with the $500.00 figure $200.00 sounds cheap. Even though the shop next door is selling them for $100.00

And the _rehearsal signature_ trick. Where you are, right off the bat, asked to sign an unimportant, mere formality slip of paper, _It's just for our records and confirms the identity of the salesperson you are talking to._ It's actually to get you over the psychological hurdle of signing an agreement. It's easier to sign something the second time.

These examples don't necessarily relate to mortgage agreements but that said, there are other subtle plays going on to make you comfortable with your decision to sign.

And after all that I do agree that the responsibility ultimately lies with the borrower.


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## BillHoo (Mar 16, 2005)

charles burns said:


> Ya know, thinking on the _hypnotising_ theme in BillHoo's post, some sales techniques are beyond hypnosis......


And don't forget FEAR as a very persuasive method.

Yessss. Buy thiss one bedroom condo for $900,000.00. We don't need your money. Sssomeone else will sssnatch it up tommorrow for 1 million! You can't lossssse. Come'on. Give it a throw. You're going to hit the jackpot with this property. I.... guarantee. Yeah, That'sss the ticket! The way things are going, thisss property will easily be a over a million next month! Can you REALLY afford to wait. Ssssign. Ssssign right here. Do it Now! Are you chicken!? Buck, buck, buck, bugock! When TSHTF all you can count on is the sssolid price of your property.

By the way. This is doomsday month. Go out there and stock up on canned goods and provisions. You need three year's worth of butter before it's all sold out! Don't be left unprepared. Buy lots of plastic tarps! You never know when you'll need those. Get a barnful to be sure. Oooh. The price of grain is going up because of all the land used for ethanol. Be sure to buy lots of cases oatmeal (even if you don't like oatmeal) and empty it out of the boxes into these old plastic paint buckets we got on sale for safekeeping! Don't forget matches. When TSHTF, you won't be able to start a fire. Get at least a thousand dollars worth. 

Your local provisioning store is waiting for you.


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## uyk7 (Dec 1, 2002)

"I suppose you drive a car without insurance to save a few bucks too?"

Actually no. I am sure there are many individuals that was in the situation I was in: I was tired of paying rent and wanted to be able to get some of my money back when I sold the place. At the time I was under the impression that the forms I was signing were standard forms used by all companies. If the forms are standard then there are only a few parts that get changed (price, % rate, location, etc...). It never crossed my mind that some companies would actually change these forms for their own gain until this thread.

As far as lawyers go, I have only met one that I liked (from NJ). My wife and I have had a few times over the years where we wanted to get help from a lawyer. Not once were we told that we didn't have a case. They just didn't want to represent us because we didn't have a lot of money to pay their fees. Once in TN we hired a lawyer who told us the day before court that he could no longer represent us. I think the old joke "99% of the lawyers give the rest of us a bad name" is pretty accurate.


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## MawKettle (Sep 13, 2006)

Just to put a different perspective on the mortgage mess.

When my ex and I purchased the home I currently live in, we bought much less house than we could afford (according to the bank).

Over time, the value on the house appreciated. When we divorced, the house was appraised for more than double what we paid for it - strictly due to the out of control real estate market here.

In order to keep the house, I had to refinance it in my name, and pay my ex "his fair share".

Now perhaps the more prudent choice would have been to sell the place and split the proceeds, but it was a very emotionally trying time, and I didn't want the stress of having to move put on top of the stress of my imploding marriage.

So I refinanced, bought him out, and now have a rather large mortgage, with a rather large payment.

I did take an adjustable, that would have reset this January - making the loan completely unaffordable to me. I was lucky that my lender had a program in place to convert it to a fixed rate (which I have taken advantage of).

But when I took the loan to begin with, I had planned to sell long before the rate reset date. The market here tanked before I could put that plan in motion...so at the moment, selling is not an option.

Just wanted to point out that not ALL the people in these adjustable loans were hoodwinked by unscrupulous lenders / brokers......if the adjustable rate product had not been available to me at the time of my divorce, I would not have been able to keep my home......

I was able to afford a $150,000 house easily (about what we paid for the place)....but when it appraised for almost $400,000 it put a much different spin on things (its now "worth" closer to $275,000).....


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## Chuck-prime (Jul 24, 2007)

Ardie/WI said:


> Next Tuesday, our septic system may get pumped. Should I worry?


This may be _the_ signal!

Thanks for the warning


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## Karen (Apr 17, 2002)

Ardie/WI said:


> Next Tuesday, our septic system may get pumped. Should I worry?


As long as you don't have any fans around, you should be good to go...LOL!


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## Chuck-prime (Jul 24, 2007)

From George Ure's www.urbansurvival.com website:

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601103&sid=aLv4kVv3l.j8&refer=us

From another website:

http://www.freep.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070907/BUSINESS04/709070375


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## tickranch (Jan 6, 2007)

Petunia40 said:


> Hmmm, hopefully it will wait until Oct 1st.. Sept 28th is my birthday..lol




Hey, my birthday is Oct.11. Maybe it can be rescheduled for Nov. 1st. Do you think anyone will mind?


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## susieM (Apr 23, 2006)

What is this!?

http://www.freemarketnews.com/WorldNews.asp?nid=48646

Why would the US tell the whole world when it was planning to be impotent? This sounds so much like that coincidental war game they were playing on 9/11...the one about airplanes flying into buildings.


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## BillHoo (Mar 16, 2005)

We don't need to fly nukes over the continental US to stage for Iran.

We have things call nuclear submarines with Trident missiles parked on their doorstep (maybe, maybe not, you didn't hear it from me).


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## AngieM2 (May 10, 2002)

This is a three year old thread (did I get the timing correct? Bonnie L 

But it has some predictions in it.

Angie


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