# LGDs on a small acreage ...



## tbishop

Hello. I was discussing with someone getting a LGD for my small acreage. I have about 3 acres to work with. This person let me know that I may be in for behavior issues with an LGD on that small of acreage. She stated that they need at least 20 acres to manage. Does this sound accurate?

If this is the case, what are my alternatives? I'd like to deter running dogs, wolves, bear, fox, raccoons, skunks, and weasels. Possibly bobcats as well. If the LGDs aren't an option, do you think a donkey would be effective?

Tim B.


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## pancho

On 3 acres it would be much better and cheaper to invest in fencing rather than a LGD.


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## tbishop

Well fencing was already planned. Didn't think to mention that but thanks for pointing that out. Any insight into the guard animals?


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## Bearfootfarm

> Any insight into the guard animals?


How much and what kind of LIVESTOCK do you have?
Is your 3 acres all pasture, or are you counting your yard too?


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## tbishop

3 acres would be the wooded pasture. I'm in the planning phase. I will have 4 dexter cattle plus offspring, 3-4 american guinea hogs, planning on a group of 5 goats, as well as the poutry, (chickens, ducks, geese, turkeys). Planning on having a 6 foot fence.


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## Otter

You do NOT want an LGD on small acreage. I have 10 and don't feel that's enough for one.
 Neither does my neighbor's Pyr, who has included my land in the 50 or so acres she roams, undeterred by fence.

A 6 foot fence with that stocking rate around 3 acres will do just fine. Should those dexters be any kind of decent, they'll stomp the heck out of most anything but a pack of canines or a bear that gets near their calves.
You'll pretty much have a drylot, so lots of visibility, no cover for lurking predators.

What you want is a nice barn to lock everything in at night, and any dog that barks. My beagle is actually an awesome dog for that. We've taught him to sound off when he smells fox or **** and everytime he bays, the whole pack takes off after him - and I take off after them with my .22


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## tbishop

Otter said:


> You do NOT want an LGD on small acreage. I have 10 and don't feel that's enough for one.
> Neither does my neighbor's Pyr, who has included my land in the 50 or so acres she roams, undeterred by fence.
> 
> A 6 foot fence with that stocking rate around 3 acres will do just fine. Should those dexters be any kind of decent, they'll stomp the heck out of most anything but a pack of canines or a bear that gets near their calves.
> You'll pretty much have a drylot, so lots of visibility, no cover for lurking predators.
> 
> What you want is a nice barn to lock everything in at night, and any dog that barks. My beagle is actually an awesome dog for that. We've taught him to sound off when he smells fox or **** and everytime he bays, the whole pack takes off after him - and I take off after them with my .22


Thank you- that's good information. I don't want to set up a dog for failure. I have several dogs- just wanted the livestock safe. Thanks again!


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## Bearfootfarm

Pass on the dog.

That's too many animals in there at once, and LGD's are meant mainly for sheep and goats.
Cattle and dogs DON'T mix well

Add some hot wires to your fence, and you'll be better off


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## TriWinkle

Otter said:


> You do NOT want an LGD on small acreage. I have 10 and don't feel that's enough for one.
> Neither does my neighbor's Pyr, who has included my land in the 50 or so acres she roams, undeterred by fence.
> 
> A 6 foot fence with that stocking rate around 3 acres will do just fine. Should those dexters be any kind of decent, they'll stomp the heck out of most anything but a pack of canines or a bear that gets near their calves.
> You'll pretty much have a drylot, so lots of visibility, no cover for lurking predators.
> 
> What you want is a nice barn to lock everything in at night, and any dog that barks. My beagle is actually an awesome dog for that. We've taught him to sound off when he smells fox or **** and everytime he bays, the whole pack takes off after him - and I take off after them with my .22



I bet that's a site to behold...Your pack trying to chase down your beagle for barking too much...you trying to chase down the pack chasing your beagle with your .22...:hobbyhors

One of these days some of y'all are gonna get hurt with all that horse play.


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## DaniR1968

I have a GP mix on 2 acres. That is my total land. She probably has around an acre and a half to guard. She is only a little over a year. If she gets out, she will explore the woods behind us. She does not dig under or go over the fence, so far knock wood.

I got her because despite refencing and adding hotwire, I was still loosing chickens to predators. They were locked up at night but I would loose them in the early evening before they went into the coop.

I even had a problem with one of my dogs occasionally killing one. If I went out of town, and left my kids or husband to look after things, you could guarantee I would lose at least one to that dog. From the time Lucy was about 6 months, I haven't lost one chicken to that dog. I've lost very few chickens since getting her period. She is finally learning to look out for hawks which is the only remaining threat I seem to have. 

Besides chickens, I have goats. They are what she really guards. The chickens just happen to be on the property and therefor are guarded, too. 

That said, you probably don't need one for the animals you have.


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## Rock

I would think you can find something that works for you. Breeds are different as are litters and even in litters, the mates can vary a lot.
Dogs can also be taught perimeters very well, I got 2 pitbulls stuck in my head, every time I think of dogs on perimeter duty. They were inside a fenced compound with an automatic power gate.
When the gate opened they would patrol back and forth across the open gate, until they were givin the command to let the vehicle pass. As soon as it was in, they went right back to patrolling until the gate shut. Like 2 little furry soldiers.


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## tbishop

well it'll be a while before I have the cattle and goats. I'm working on the fence and hoping to have it done by September. If I can locate hay I MIGHT get a steer to over-winter and butcher next fall. That being said, I THINK I'll just work on the securing the fence and growing my flock. I was considering collies before the lGDs and think they will work for me. Thanks again!


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## Otter

Tbishop, a good farm collie is a great helper.



TriWinkle said:


> I bet that's a site to behold...Your pack trying to chase down your beagle for barking too much...you trying to chase down the pack chasing your beagle with your .22...:hobbyhors


LOL, as soon as Scooter sounds off all the dogs say _YAY! What does Scooter have??_ and go bounding happily off to where the fun is at.
And I say "Crud!! What does Scooter have?!"

Of course, if you pay attention to dogs, you learn them. I know the difference between the rabbit bark, the strange dog bark, the raccoon bark, the fox bark and the squirrel bark. And if I didn't, the other dogs do! Rabbit, everyone dashes off happy and bouncing. Squirrel brings Smiley and Judd at a run, the rest spread out and look for more. Raccoon, everyone gets very serious and intent and all arrow after him. Strange dog, they spread out, etc and so on.
A pack of dogs is an education if you pay attention!


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## wmk0002

I'm in a similar situation OP. My goats are only on 7 acres fenced by 5 strands of hot wire. I have yet to have any issues with predators but I'd rather be preventative in that aspect. I'd prefer a LGD over upgrading my fence mainly due to cost but also because a predator seems to always find a way in if it it really wants to prey on your livestock. A breed who's first line of defense is it's bark and will stay with the animals would be perfect but I have no clue which, if any, LGD breeds tend to behave this way. I've only heard that certain breeds such as Kangals and Anatolian shepherds tend to patrol more and will confront a predator rather than staying with the herd.


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## motdaugrnds

I'm in a similar situation in that our homestead is only 6 acres. We have a small herd of large dairy goats and about 30 assorted fowl. The place is fenced and divided in half with the garden in the middle. All animals free range 24/7 and only the fowl are locked into a "predator-resistant" house every evening. The dog I counted on (before she died) was an anatolian/chow/lab mix; and this dog intimidated every other animal around so that even now no hunting dog comes near our fencing. However, we do still have predators, i.e. foxes, *****, possoms, even a badger on occasions...and of course flying predators.

Since I'm up in years now and not as agile as I was, I cannot get out to where a ruckess is fast enough; so for the past year and half I've been looking for an LGD that I thought would guard my small amount of animals, guard the homestead from possible 2-legged predators and stay home. I wanted a dog that would not bark so much as just take care of matters! I decided on "one" Bulgarian Karakachan and picked her up yesterday. Already David has walked her around the parameter fencing of the front half and, as she ran behind him, she was vigilant in keeping track of where the house/barn was from where she was at the time. Not once did she try to go nearer the fencing than David walked.

This is the first full blood LGD I've ever had and I've learned there is much contradictory information in dealing with this type of dog. I've decided to go with what my instincts tell me, which is to respect "her" (female named after her granddam, "Valentina") and expect her to respect me. I handle her only enough to keep her tolerating whatever I need to do with her. The majority of the time she is on her own with the goats and fowl. She is just 8 weeks old, yet already it is obvious she respects the right of the baby goats to jump and play without interruption and the fowl to chase each other for mating without interference. She just sits and watches. Yet, she has also already shown some non-tolerating aspects, i.e. I've heard her bark and growl when something she wasn't expecting occurs; yet when she discovers what made the sound and it is something that belongs here, her personality immediately changes to one of friendship.

I may be wrong of course; however, I believe this LGD will be just fine on my 6-acre homestead; and I know I will be better off with her on patrol...(I do think, however, it might be wise to choose an LGD pup that is older than 8 weeks due to possible bonding problems. I'm having to be real cautious in order to make sure this pup does NOT bond primarily to me or David!)


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## o&itw

In the next year or two I will have 20-40 acres and plan to raise a few Dexters and some goats.

I would like to get a guardian dog(s) at that time, but I am wondering about some comments on dogs and cattle not going together.

Also, I really don't want dogs that go barking every time the wind blows. My daughter had a half Great Pyrenees and that dog hardly ever ceased barking.

Would anybody care to give me some suggestions?


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## o&itw

Oops... didn't mean to Hijack this thread... sorry, thought I had started a new thread
:ashamed:


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## tracerracer

I have 3 acres in pasture and am looking at getting a SECOND LGD........ I also have a very heavy predator population ( Cougars, coyotes, wolves coming back..... Not to mention bear, and all those small little varmints) I know I need to 'supplement' my dogs to keep them 'engaged' on my property.......

Personally, I believe it is total hogwash, the "Do NOT let your dog (LGD) bond with YOU" .......That mentality drastically underestimates the intelligence of these dogs....... My now 8 month old pup spends the night in a kennel within the sheep pen and part of her days as well..... when she 'goes off' because of the coyotes are 'tuning up, my sheep will now run TO HER and stand 'behind her', all the time looking at her and trying to 'see the danger'... When that 'danger' has 'passed', she will turn around and check HER sheep ( and now babies too)

She also goes to town with me and spends time in our schools. I mentor at our HS and she goes with me... One of the girls is raising a retriever for to be a service dog ( same age as mine) So, during lunch mine and her's will have as short 'play date' on the football field....... At the grade school, she is amazing........ So very gentle with our most fragile of students........... I have a motorcycle loading ramp that I use with her to load up in my PU ( that was an 'exciting day', getting her used to that) She travels quiet and well in my truck, and has no problem being 'social and friendly'.......

I see a very different dog at home in 'her' field, already she is 'sizing' things up... She isn't 'aggressive', but in no way rolls out a welcome mat for people or animals that aren't HER'S ................ 

To think these highly intelligent dogs cannot differentiate is narrow minded in my opinion and a disservice to these dogs............. It would be one thing if you had hundreds of acres, but even then, I see it as 'asking' for *serious trouble* not 'socializing' an animal that ( at least in my case ) will outweigh me at maturity............ 

I think this may not be the place for me........... I have very different views on these animals


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## Bearfootfarm

> A breed who's *first line of defense is it's bark* and will stay with the animals would be perfect but I have no clue which, if any, LGD breeds tend to behave this way.


All of them should perform that way.
Some just tend to be more agressive.


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## Bearfootfarm

> To think these highly intelligent dogs cannot differentiate is narrow minded in my opinion and *a disservice* to these dogs





> She also goes to town with me and spends time in our schools


You're tryng to make an LGD into a *pet.*
A *true working dog* only has ONE job, and that requires them to be with the animals *all the time.*

I think it's a "disservice" to the true LGD breeds to counter* thousands* of years of selective breeding to get them to do something most any "pound hound" could do


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## mekasmom

tbishop said:


> Well fencing was already planned. Didn't think to mention that but thanks for pointing that out. Any insight into the guard animals?


An LGD would do fine if you have a way to keep them contained. Use an invisible fence for the dog with a collar if you can't keep the fence closed all the time to keep her/him in the property line. 
If you don't have a way to contain the dog, it will wander. But it would be fine on 3 acres. Some people actually keep them as pets, in the house, so they can certainly survive on 3 acres. They will protect their flock whether their flock is human, caprine, or even feline. They just love their flock and protect them.


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## Otter

mekasmom said:


> But it would be fine on 3 acres. Some people actually keep them as pets, in the house, so they can certainly survive on 3 acres.


Survive? Yes, they will. (sort of)

So will an Alaskan husky.

But both will be FAR more trouble then most folks want to deal with, and unless you can fill their every moment with work and exercise, both you and the dog will be unhappy.

I've seen some pyrs and other LGD breeds kept strictly as pets - I've just never seen any _old_ ones. Anyone care to guess just where the dog vanishes too between the ages of 8 months to 3 years? You probably won't like the answer. 
Some dogs - it is cruelty to try to use them for anything but the purpose they were bred for.


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## mekasmom

Otter said:


> But both will be FAR more trouble then most folks want to deal with, and unless you can fill their every moment with work and exercise, both you and the dog will be unhappy.


I know many people with LGDs that have a small place. They are fine. You are underestimating the quality of the LGD persona. They can love their people, especially their kids, just as easily as they can love the goats or sheep. I know an amish family with 7acres and 8 GP. They are happy, healthy, and live in harmony. Don't underestimate the breeds. They are just wonderful animals that have the ability to love their families just as well as they can love the livestock flocks.


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## DaniR1968

As you can see, she is completely miserable! This is where she is most days. She is not very active during the day at all. She moves from the couch to the love seat to the floor and that's pretty much it. At night she insists on being outside with her goats.


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## BarbadosSheep

I have two Anatolian Shepherd Dogs (two year old intact males) on my farm. I have 25 acres, but the pastures are subdivided and all are around 3 acres each. The dogs are perfectly happy and have never even attempted to jump out. And guess what.....they are currently guarding my Dexter cattle and chickens (the sheep are in a different pasture). The dogs and cattle actually have become very good friends.

this pic is my ASDS meeting my Amstaff pup through the fence.


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## Rock

DaniR1968 said:


> As you can see, she is completely miserable! This is where she is most days. She is not very active during the day at all. She moves from the couch to the love seat to the floor and that's pretty much it. At night she insists on being outside with her goats.


 That is great, you know people project things onto dogs, when in the end *they are still dogs*. 
I saw the same thing at the OB school, "You have to take a different approach with bull breeds, you have to know bull breeds blah blah blah. Dog was yanking on leash with his mouth wouldn't pay no mind to the owner she was gettin more embarrassed. "So I asked her if she wanted me to show her how to make him stop?" Yes, so I lifted the dogs back legs by his testicles and like any male he quit what he was doing and gave undivided attention to what was going on with the baby room furniture. *Still a dog*.
When this tread first started I wondered where these dogs was coming from that could measure acreage, because most people dont know how big an acre is 209' x 209'


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## Bearfootfarm

> They are just wonderful animals that have the ability to love their families just as well as they can love the livestock flocks.


It's not about "touchy-feely LOVE"
It's about taking a specialized breed, and trying to turn it into something else.
The fact that you "know people who have done it" is no justification.
I know people who have driven while drunk, and didn't kill anyone.

How many *TRUE *LGD's have YOU owned/raised?


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## wendle

My younger lgd seems plenty satisfied with the smaller pastures as well. She loves people company, but also is very protective of her lambs. A couple problems with the smaller acreage could be how close the neighbors are that might not be tolerant of night time barking, and the dog getting bored. My younger lgd went through a phase where she was playing rough with the baby goats, but I think that could happen in a larger area as well. I think one of the biggest factors of the dog working out is how much time the owner is willing to spend with training the dog.


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## mekasmom

DaniR1968 said:


> As you can see, she is completely miserable! This is where she is most days. She is not very active during the day at all. She moves from the couch to the love seat to the floor and that's pretty much it. At night she insists on being outside with her goats.


We have one that we keep in the house too. She is a GP/anatolian mix. She doesn't lay on the couch, but prefers the bed. She likes to be outside to bark at night, but if we keep her in, she lays on the floor at the foot of the bed. She isn't unhappy either. She is pretty fat though, but that's ok. Her main job is leftover disposal.
All the others have stayed mostly outside unless it is really hot or really cold. All LGD like to be out at night though just because they like to bark. But they aren't tortured souls if you bring them in. Inside they just like to eat, sleep and play with the chihuahuas or get scratched. They make good pets.


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## Rock

wendle said:


> I think one of the biggest factors of the dog working out is how much time the owner is willing to spend with training the dog.


That is 1 coverall statement, that can be applied to any dog, for any purpose. It is also 100% correct!


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## wendle

That's a lot of dog to trip over in the house, lol.


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## chica051588

Otter said:


> I've seen some pyrs and other LGD breeds kept strictly as pets - *I've just never seen any old ones.* Anyone care to guess just where the dog vanishes too between the ages of 8 months to 3 years? You probably won't like the answer.
> Some dogs - it is cruelty to try to use them for anything but the purpose they were bred for.


I have to disagree with you. It's not cruelty at all to own them as pets if you are still giving them the mental stimulation they require. That doesn't always have to be guarding something. 

And secondly, working in a veterinary specialty/emergency facility, I see *OLD* "LGD" breeds allllllllllll the time. Ones used as pets, well socialized, well taken care of and *HAPPY*!!


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## awoodwaring

Funny, our GP/akbash mix would rather be with the family than his sheep. It is really hard to get a puppy and leave him solely with the sheep when you have kids. Our dog would rather be a family pet. So far, he is fine on our small acreage (1 acre fenced areas). He did go through a jumping over the fence phase for a week after we had the fencing being done. He was trying to get back to our front porch. Anyhow, he is 2 years old and he has never met a "stranger". He loves everyone that steps foot onto our property.


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## motdaugrnds

Well, I've had my Bulgarian Karakachan only a few days. She was 8 weeks last Monday. I spent the first 2-3 days worrying if what I was doing was right or not for this breed as I was following everything the "experts" had suggested. 

Now here it is 5 days later and I'm beginning to realize this LGD is, indeed, like other breeds in some ways. I chose a Karakachan (over other LGD breeds) because, not only was it known NOT to bark excessively but it was also a rather endangered breed that had great propensities for guarding livestock. While wanting to nurture this "natural" tendancy of this breed, I'm also learning she can accept humans as well.

The LGD breeds are known as "thinkers"; yet from the stories I've heard, not all are! The LGD breeds are often advertised as "needing a large amount of acreage" to do their thing in; yet from the stories I've heard, they do quite well on smaller acreage. (I have come to believe this has much to do with the number of LGDs that are run together and how they influence each other.)

Since getting this Karakachan I have learned, at 8 weeks, she needs more attention (from most any animal, beit 4 legged or 2 legged) so as to feel safe enough to explore her world without fear of what she finds. Then, because she is the breed she is with the characteristics ingrained in her by birthright, she will decide for herself which part of her world she is to guard and how ... as well as how to respect (and demand respect) from the diverse parts of her world. I believe, by the human owner being sensitive to this, this particular LGD will develop the characteristics a Karakachan is most noted for all by herself (naturally) and will not need "to be trained" for those chores. (I'm seeing this already in this little pup!)

I urge all would-be owners of LGD breeds to be aware and sensitive to the specific one(s) you take home and not expect it to behave as other have told you that breed would behave if you don't "ruin" it. Hog wash!!! I firmly believe you "ruin" a puppy (whatever its breed) when you don't let it feel safe enough to explore its world and develop its own personality!!!

Guess there will be some who jump all over me for these thoughts; but I'm learning from my Karakachan 8 week old pup and I don't believe I could have a better teacher. Respect the puppy (while keeping it safe) and expect that puppy to respect you is what I consider the key to raising any dog that thinks for itself! We are their "owners", not their "masters". We are their "partners" and, as such, there will always be a give/take relationship. The real goal is for each to set parameters each can live with "happily and safely" as we all work together to create a safe place for all things living on our homestead, no mater what size our farm may be.


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## d'vash

I have a Kangal on nearly 75 acres of land, and to be quite honest, if I didn't have proper fencing in place he'd be more than glad to roam an extra 300 acres [at the very least].

Another thing to keep in mind is the breed's technique. In my personal experience, tan dogs (Anatolians and Kangals) work best in a pack of 2 or more. 1 reason being: the larger the predator (bears) or the number in which the predator attacks (wolves, large coyotes), the more dogs you need. The 2nd reason, tan dogs feel uneasy leaving the flock or herd they're assigned to protect. In most cases, 1 or 2 dogs will stay with the animals while the other group runs off to deter the predators. Where as white dogs (Akbash, Pry' and Maremma) will usually *all* leave the flock to go bark at whatever triggered them. Again, I'm only sharing my experience.

Could a Kangal live on 3 acres? Sure it's possible. Two or more Kangals (since they prefer to work in groups)? Err... Would I recommend it? Knowing my dog and the origins of the breed, I'd advised against it. 

To those who said cattle and dogs do not mix, I'd like to kindly counteract that thought by pointing out the very many breeds of dogs that have successfully worked with bovines for many centuries... Including my own.

I apologize I didn't read through all of the posts, but did you happen to mention what kind of predators you have in your area? What kind of fencing do you have in place? And do you have perimeter fencing? 

If you have things like rabbits eating your garden, raccoon stealing your chicks or simply have the desire to feel that your home, family and property are safe - I'd suggest a Pit Bull (Staffordshire Terrier, American Pit Bull Terrier, Cane Corso, Dogo Argentino or any other 'pit bull' type breed), Rottweiler, German Shepherd... The options are many! Any dog that isnt prone to roaming and can be taught "chickens and children are family - the raccoon is not" will work well.

Just my 2 cents. 

All the best!


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## Painted Pony

I am surprised people automatically assume a dog needs a specific number of acres to be happy. Yes, some LGDs will roam, but not all will. How many acres and how many dogs is more determined by terrain, predators threat, etc. 

I have had as many as 5 LGDs on less than 5 acres, and two on less than an acre. None ran off, but my set up is a bit different. My dogs have access to the house via doggie door. They see the family, other dogs and livestock as their "charges" so they don't challenge the fencing. My GPs will take turns being inside and outside, sometimes one in each spot. 

I have some fencing that is only 4' tall so the dogs could certainly leave if they wanted to. I believe having them bonded to the humans encourages them to stay close by. My friends with dogs who live the same way never leave their property either, even with open gates.


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## mekasmom

chica051588 said:


> I have to disagree with you. It's not cruelty at all to own them as pets if you are still giving them the mental stimulation they require. That doesn't always have to be guarding something.
> 
> And secondly, working in a veterinary specialty/emergency facility, I see *OLD* "LGD" breeds allllllllllll the time. Ones used as pets, well socialized, well taken care of and *HAPPY*!!


If you keep them as pets they do guard. The family becomes the flock that they protect. And, they are happy. 
Dogs are wonderful like that. They are so easy to make happy.


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## Freeholder

I've had working lgd's for most of the last 35 years. we never had a lot of land (the biggest place we had was 14 acres), and we did have some trouble with dogs wandering, and a lot of issues with the night barking. Mostly we had Pyrs, then one Maremma, then a farmcollie (have had issues with him wandering and night barking, too). I'd always heard that you shouldn't make pets of your working dogs, so when I got my current lgd I was concerned. Her mother had no milk for her pups, so they were bottle-raised, away from the dam. Cameo was only six weeks old when I brought her home. She was kept right next to the goat pen from the beginning, but has remained very bonded to me. At sixteen months, she still cuddles and makes puppy mouth motions when I pet her. However, she and the goats are now living together on a small pasture (just under an acre) and she makes no attempt to leave them, not does she


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## Freeholder

(above post cont'd -- stupid phone!)

Anyway, Cameo doesn't bother the goats, she just hangs around with them. I have seen her and the buck playing chase together -first one, then the other was in front as the romped back and forth across the pasture. The two does are usually too sober for that kind of thing.

Cameo is a Maremma X Akbash, though I don't know if it makes a whole lot of difference.

So, what I now think is that if you have a large property and your livestock are frequently at from the house, it's probably best not to have the lgd too bonded to the family, so it will stay with the flock/hers. However, on a small property (such as my current acre and a half) the dog can protect the entire place, all the animals AND the people. So it doesn't hurt anything to have the dog bonded to both. It can actually be helpful, in fact. Last fall, Cameo killed one of my chickens. They spent the winter in the coop, but when I let them out again this spring and some got into the pasture, I caught Cameo starting to chase one. I yelled at her, she immediately stopped (which totally shocked me!), looked at the chickens, and had never again bothered one.


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## sgsnoco

We are planning to get 3-6 sheep (some girls and a ram for a small breeding flock) and we will have (hopefully) a few ducks as well. 

They'd be on about 2-4 acres of mixed pasture and woods (still trying to work out how much rotation through our property to do). 

Would we even need to get a guard animal (we have electronet and a solid barn) for 3-6 sheep and 3-6 ducks? And if so, what are good choices for tiny, starter-size flocks/herds/etc?


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## tracerracer

sgsnoco said:


> We are planning to get 3-6 sheep (some girls and a ram for a small breeding flock) and we will have (hopefully) a few ducks as well.
> 
> They'd be on about 2-4 acres of mixed pasture and woods (still trying to work out how much rotation through our property to do).
> 
> Would we even need to get a guard animal (we have electronet and a solid barn) for 3-6 sheep and 3-6 ducks? And if so, what are good choices for tiny, starter-size flocks/herds/etc?


If you have a heavy predator load, I would (did)........... It is something that you have to evaluate and decide for yourself ................ Our predators are not 'just night' attackers...... just last week a pack of coyotes 'hit' a herd of goats about 3 in the afternoon about 2 miles from my place.............


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## sgsnoco

Our next door neighbors have free ranging chickens and chicken-trained dogs. The only coyote problem we had was when we first moved up here and one of our cats summoned them with constant distress cries at night. They, well, they ate that cat and we haven't seen any sign (spoor, fur, etc) since. The neighbors have had no chicken losses then or now or before we moved up here.


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## peteyfoozer

I have 2 Maremmas which guard sheep, goats, calves, and poultry. They can distinguish between MY cows and the boss' cows in the same pasture. We have an ENORMOUS area here, but the dogs seem content to remain within shouting distance of the house. I can go out to find them any time of day, in spite of the fact there are 250,000 acres here and no dogproof fencing. If the dogs are raised in a smaller space, I don't think they would have any trouble. I do encourage good, dog proof fencing for anyone with LGD's because typically most DO try to set a large perimeter and many will go over, under or thru fencing. Mine don't, but that isn't typical. Our situation is unique and there are no roads to here to endanger mine. Socialization of LGD's is of primary importance in my opinion. I don't think we would have the success with ours that we do, did I not spend copious amounts of time with them. Anytime you see these dogs used in their countries of origin, they are interacting with the human sheperds on a regular basis, not locked out like feral dogs to do their job.They also require some guidance and correction as they mature, to ensure their success. Our dogs come to visit me regularly and guard our house/yard as part of their territory. It hasn't hurt their instinctive bonding to their livestock or protection one bit. The biggest problem you might have, as they DO bark and mark territory as their first line of defense is your neighbors. Mine don't bark unless there is something to bark at, but many bark a LOT and could cause you grief if people who live around you file complaints. It's nice to have lots of property and lots of stock for them to protect, but they have been used by many people successfully as service dogs as well, so a lot depends on the breed, the environment and how much time you are willing to spend helping this dog adapt to its job. You have a lot to think about, and will get lots of conflicting advice. Just do your homework, meet some dogs and join some lists or boards so you can make an informed decision that is right for you. Best of luck!


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## anita_fc

We have had two and three LGDs on just under 2 acres for the last 12 years. Two of them had been open range dogs. The secret is "good fences". We started with a pair of Pyrs, later adopted a rescue (former range Akbash). We now have two Akbash. 

There is a wide range of dispositions available in the various breeds. I think the more independent, less social animals work best in large or open range areas, while more social, less independent dogs work best for small acreages.

Anita Crafton
Dan-Ani Pygmy Goats
Hansen, Idaho


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