# barrel stove ideas...long, involved post...



## mustard

I live in north Florida, and will be "roughing" it for about a year, and want some cheap means of heating during the worst cold snaps here...I have three cats; one is elderly, and an old arthritic dog (they don't like cold weather - just like me!) Free wood is available. I'm not broke (yet) and am willing to fork out $200 or $300 for warmth this winter...

I was wondering about using a 30 gal. barrel stove, perhaps with the smoke chamber - but imbedding it in a thermal mass of clay, or soil (with a concrete block retaining wall) in the rear of my tiny cabin, which I will be hand-building...I'd like to have something that won't heat the cabin up so rapidly as a standard arrangement, and would hold some heat through the night...

I've done a fair amount of research on the "earth oven" concept...and it seems that someone could combine these concepts...

I'm also wondering if I should use vermiculite or something similar to insulate between the barrel and the thermal mass...to cushion the expansion and contraction of the barrel as it heats and cools...also to protect the barrel from being exposed to extreme heat inside and cool thermal mass outside...it seems like this might help it last longer...

Speaking of lasting longer, maybe I should design it so the barrels can be replaced in a future year...

I'm also thinking that I could put some kind of non-explosive rocks (not "river rock"!) or losely stacked bricks in the smoke chamber for additional thermal mass - AND maybe insert a camp oven into the smoke chamber, in the barrel end away from the flue coming from the lower barrel - of course this means a door in the upper barrel...

Uhhh....and maybe I could also get this set-up to provide hot water...hot baths are one of the things I loath to give up...maybe even imbed a third 30 gallon barrel in the thermal mass for this purpose?

What do you think? Does anyone know of these concepts being combined?

Here are links to suppliers of "barrel stove" hardware: http://www.vogelzang.com/Manuals/bk100e_50eMnl.htm
http://www.lehmans.com/shopping/pro...ODUCT&iMainCat=671&iSubCat=737&iProductID=199

M

PS Don't you just love Lehman's?


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## wy_white_wolf

One of the things with barrel stoves is that they have to stay cooler than most other stoves. The thin metal of a barrel was never meant to withstand higher temperatures. All that thermal mass and insulation will destroy the barrel stove.


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## dennisjp

You would be better to find a couple of old hot water heaters. The metal is much thicker and you can pick them up on the side of the road many times where they are being replaced.


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## catahoula

I built a kiln for the university I attended, all the mild steel parts that were exposed to extreme heat were "painted" with an insulating ceramic thermal coating to protect them. I think the product was called ITC. I was impressed, the companys web site showed a picture of a temporary blast furnace door made from plywood brushed with their product. The company also makes molten metal pumps, pretty interesting stuff. This brush on coating, along with fire brick would extend the life of your stove. Sand around your stove would create more thermal mass than perlite and would still cover your expansion contraction problem. Good luck, it sounds like an interesting project.


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## mustard

catahoula said:


> I built a kiln for the university I attended, all the mild steel parts that were exposed to extreme heat were "painted" with an insulating ceramic thermal coating to protect them. I think the product was called ITC. I was impressed, the companys web site showed a picture of a temporary blast furnace door made from plywood brushed with their product. The company also makes molten metal pumps, pretty interesting stuff. This brush on coating, along with fire brick would extend the life of your stove. Sand around your stove would create more thermal mass than perlite and would still cover your expansion contraction problem. Good luck, it sounds like an interesting project.


Thank you for the information....and encouragement...I enjoy tinkering, don't you?

I had forgotten about the concept of coating...you reminded me: I had read somewhere, years ago about someone who ended up coating their woodstove with "refractory?" cement...I think they wrote that they used to to patch a burn-through, and then ended up coating the entire bottom of the stove because the cement worked so well...the only thing is, how do I coat the inside of a barrel with such a small door - since I don't have extra long arms?


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## mightybooboo

Never personally used one,but my Godfather did and swore by em.
He was also not financially challenged and could have used any heater on the planet,his choice was homemade barrel stoves.FWIW.

Used em in Utah,in the Mtns.

BooBoo


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## jgbndaudio

Hello,

I use a barrel stove that is outside to preheat both my baseboard hot water and the domestic hot water. I also burn wvo (waste vegetable oil) in it and have had it glowing red many times. The barrel seems to be holding up just fine after more than a year. I have it installed in such a way that I can replace the barrel if/when it burns through. I have it surrounded by a lot of thermal mass and it does pretty well up here in NY even during the coldest days of winter. Before this winter I hope to add a fan and some dryer type hose (only bigger and metal) that will suck some of the lost heat from the chimmney and have it put under the front of my VW golf Diesel to help keep it warm as I have no garage and live about 800' up the side of a mountain. As a bonus I hope it will also help my the snow in the driveway.
Anyway, two things about the barrel stove kit. You can find it cheaper than at Lehmans (yes, love them) at either harbor frieght or northern tool. Also it seems that it will be very difficult to re-use the door and the chimmney adaptor after the have been exposed to the elements for a couple years, They are very rusted in to place. If you're using it inside you may not have this problem. Eventually I'd like to get a metal roof over it but I'm sure it'll still rust even without direct water on it. (rain, snow)

Good luck

Scott




mustard said:


> I live in north Florida, and will be "roughing" it for about a year, and want some cheap means of heating during the worst cold snaps here...I have three cats; one is elderly, and an old arthritic dog (they don't like cold weather - just like me!) Free wood is available. I'm not broke (yet) and am willing to fork out $200 or $300 for warmth this winter...
> 
> I was wondering about using a 30 gal. barrel stove, perhaps with the smoke chamber - but imbedding it in a thermal mass of clay, or soil (with a concrete block retaining wall) in the rear of my tiny cabin, which I will be hand-building...I'd like to have something that won't heat the cabin up so rapidly as a standard arrangement, and would hold some heat through the night...
> 
> I've done a fair amount of research on the "earth oven" concept...and it seems that someone could combine these concepts...
> 
> I'm also wondering if I should use vermiculite or something similar to insulate between the barrel and the thermal mass...to cushion the expansion and contraction of the barrel as it heats and cools...also to protect the barrel from being exposed to extreme heat inside and cool thermal mass outside...it seems like this might help it last longer...
> 
> Speaking of lasting longer, maybe I should design it so the barrels can be replaced in a future year...
> 
> I'm also thinking that I could put some kind of non-explosive rocks (not "river rock"!) or losely stacked bricks in the smoke chamber for additional thermal mass - AND maybe insert a camp oven into the smoke chamber, in the barrel end away from the flue coming from the lower barrel - of course this means a door in the upper barrel...
> 
> Uhhh....and maybe I could also get this set-up to provide hot water...hot baths are one of the things I loath to give up...maybe even imbed a third 30 gallon barrel in the thermal mass for this purpose?
> 
> What do you think? Does anyone know of these concepts being combined?
> 
> Here are links to suppliers of "barrel stove" hardware: http://www.vogelzang.com/Manuals/bk100e_50eMnl.htm
> http://www.lehmans.com/shopping/pro...ODUCT&iMainCat=671&iSubCat=737&iProductID=199
> 
> M
> 
> PS Don't you just love Lehman's?


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## catahoula

You might be able to use a roller to coat the insde, I think the product can be thinned and sprayed as well.


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## rambler

The thin metal of a barrel will melt/burn right away in this application - too hot for it. Would be even worse if you put insulation on the outside - you _want_ the thermal contact of the sand, not insulation.

The coat-on stuff we are talking about here - will that not prevent the heat from getting to your thermal mass? Won't you be pumping the heat out your smoke stack at this point, keeping it way from the thermal mass you set up?

If you work around these problems - old water tanks instead of barrels for the better metal.....

Then you have another problem because of your location. It doesn't really get cold in Florida. It gets real damp, & it gets cool overnite. You will need to fire the stove in the morning, to let the heat build up so it is available by night. This might not be the best situation? Here in minnesota, now that would be a nice furnace.  But you need to learn to fire it very early in order for the heat to build up, then soak out again to your living space. Not the best for a low-heat need like you would have. Maybe.

Neat project tho, not discouraging you from it. Just think it through, that you end up with what you need.

--->Paul


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## greg273

Well, I dont know about the thermal mass idea, but I must give my hearty recommendation to the barrel stove. Had mine through 3 winters, and it did a fine job of heating my cabin/house. (900sqft). This was before I had the place fully insulated...
It took up a lot of space in my living room, so I cut it in half, then welded it back together so it took up about half as much space. Yeah, it took some work, but I needed the room.


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## catahoula

The coat-on stuff we are talking about here - will that not prevent the heat from getting to your thermal mass? Won't you be pumping the heat out your smoke stack at this point, keeping it way from the thermal mass you set up?


If it were a double barrel stove I would just coat the fire box and let the top barrel heat the thermal mass.


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## chrisl

I think you would probably benift better with a boxwood type stove....you can also use it to cook on.....
here is one on ebay for $100 http://cgi.ebay.com/Antique-Herald-...3QQihZ009QQcategoryZ41987QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
Northern Tool sells new ones for $149.00
You can build a quick hot fire in one and the cast iron will hold and radiate heat long after the fire burns out....by the way norhtern tool sells the barrel kits also.....my grandparents had a barrell stove for years, as a matter of fact dad still uses it in the shop....we have burnt all kind of wood in it including hedge...never had a burn out.....and as far as I know hedge has some of the highest BTU's of any wood....
my $.02 worth
chris


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## ET1 SS

We have a two-barrel wood/coal stove.

I just finished coating the inside of the bottom barrel with fire-clay [refractory cement]. but I have to wait another day for the thru-the-roof connections to arrive [we had to special order them].

My secondary combustion chamber has two air-intake pipes made from 2" black pipe going into it.

We also got a pair of coal cast iron grates 15" X 9" laid side-by-side in the bottom barrel.

These are the 55 gallon barrels, so I had no problem coating the insides with fire clay.


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## floramum

It Gets Cold Enough In N. Florida. He Will Be Living In A Tiny Cabin.
I Heard The Story About How Wood Stoves Used To Be Made Out Of The Iron Interior Of Water Heaters. So When Our Little Rental House Needed A New W.h. I Took The Old One Apart. Save The Iron Core And Had The Top Cut Off And Use It In The Garden As An Extra Water Holder/dispenser. Dont Know How To Make Woodstoves, But Know They Are A Thick Metal. 

Anyone Know How To Make Woodstoves Of Them In Case He Decides To Go That Way?

Mum Formerly Of The Panhandle/fl


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## jnap31

I have a barrell stove I picked up at auction for 1$ it needs a new barrell bad LOL


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## Ed K

We used to have a two barrel stove in the garage and it was great. We go too smart and made another big refractory lined stove for the garage and it didn't work as well. I think it sent too much heat up the chimney

My concern about vermiculite packed on the outside of the barrels is that it might tend to insulate the heat from radiating outward from the barrel and send it up the chimney.

Not trying to discourage you but barrel stoves are cheap and effective. If your modifications don't work don't throw the barrel out with the bathwater.

I do think you couild add heating coils to the top barrel to warm water pretty easily but you'd have to be concerned about safety. Maybe an open system would be better (no steam pressure buildup)


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## ET1 SS

Thanks, we did design it for copper tubing wraps and to feed into the radiant-floor thermal-bank. But as I am doing all this, our funds are running short. So I have left off the coils for now. 

I do however have a 60" ceiling fan mounted directly above the barrels. It misses the stove-pipe by about 8". I think that blowing down onto the barrels should push a lot of that heat out across the room.


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## neolady

I assume if you are thinking of:
(1) a home made stove; 
(b) a barrel stove; 
(c) a non-certified wood burning appliance; 
that you don't have to worry about home owner's insurance because any one of the three above will likely negate any chance you have of obtaining house insurance.


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## ET1 SS

Our apartment buildings do have insurance, but our home does not.

I have asked around and I have not found any 'requirement' to have insurance.


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## mr_onmyway

I remember reading somewhere that a guy used brake drums from a big rig to make a little pot belly stove Lots of thermal mass in them and think... I cant find a link or pictures but if I do will post


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## mr_onmyway

http://www.motherearthnews.com/Live...ch_April/More_on_Mother_s_Amazing_Wood_Burner
might give you an idea

here is where I was reading about doing them from brake drums
http://www.welding.org/newsletters/spring2003/recycle.html


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## ET1 SS

brake drums are seriously solid and thick, lots of cutting and welding would be needed.


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## PyroDon

Car wheels make nice potbelly stoves not near as much cuting and larger than brake drums. 
Just as much welding but the ridges act as heat sinks . Hmm since Im not havine much luck finding a 500 gallon propane tank I just might see about collectong tractor rims


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## de Molay

I have used barrel stoves and they are great, you won't burn out the barrel if you first choose one that is made of as heavy steel as possible to find, and then line the bottom and about half way up the sides with 2/3 inch firebrick from a fireplace store....If you can't find any sand will work.


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## arbutus

In this area you can buy a small woodstove with heavy walls $200 and the stovepipe might run another $100. Yes you may have to get up to reload the stove at 4am but I can tell you from experience that they will warm a 600 sq foot cabin to 85 degrees even in northern Michigan in the winter.

You can cook on these stoves too.


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## ET1 SS

I bet that if you looked around you could find a local source of free oil drums.

$50 worth of refractory cement, and those drums should last decades.


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## dennisjp

ET1 SS said:


> I bet that if you looked around you could find a local source of free oil drums.
> 
> $50 worth of refractory cement, and those drums should last decades.


I have been working at building a furnace to melt aluminum, and have seen many different recipes for making refactory cement.

I have a hot water tank that I have already cut in half. Actually I cut it into three parts, Top, bottom, and I used the middle section to make a shovel, along with some free 1" conduit, But I haven't decided on the refactory mix. 

Everything I have seen from your post, makes me know you are a man that knows what he is doing. 

Would you please take the time and give me a mixture that you use. Along with any other ideas that you would be willing to give up, such as coke for the fire, molds, greensand, etc. 
Thank you ahead of time. 
Dennis


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## ET1 SS

Dennis-

Bless you.

I did research it a bit, and then I found a supplier. 

"woodmans parts plus"

http://www.woodmanspartsplus.com/

They have it in 25 pound bags, and I found that the local chain of hardware stores will order it for me, and I pay the same price with no shipping fees.

It is a pre-mix, I just added water. [a wee bit a water, not much].


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## dennisjp

Thank for the info, ET1 SS, I will call ACE Hardware in the morning. 

Mustard, www.NorthernTool.con has a barrel kit that has a cast Iron door, 2 sets of cact iron legs, and a 6" damper/collar for $41.99 plus shg/handling. they fit 30 or 55 gallon drums. 

Even with the worst cold snaps in Fla, I wouldn't think you would need to worry about it holding heat too long. 
If you build it pretty air tight, load it and get it going good before bedtime and then shut the air off, it will smolder for hours on end and put out plenty of heat, no colder than it gets in Fla. 
Althought I got the coldest I think I have ever been in FT. Myers Fla., one morning at about 4 o'clock in the morning, and I went to Alaska in the winter while in the army, lol. 
But really, it doesn't hardly ever get to where you don't see atleast 60 degrees during the day, and even that will warm the house up somewhat. 
No more than you will need it down there, I would go with one barrel and let it be.
God Bless,
Dennis


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## fantasymaker

You use a hot water heater barrel the same as a 55 gallon drum when you make a heater from it! ANY refractory inside will affect heat transfer in any heater ..after all thats what its FOR!!! so you only coat the weak points of thin steel Look carefull and you can fing hot water heaters in 50 gallon and lager sizes.Be sure to include a smoke shelf for maximum heat from a given amoutof wood.
Semi truck fuel tanks are also good metal for a barrel stove


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## fantasymaker

you might think of simply burying the barrel UNDER the house before you build it ,with a outside entrance ,a concrete floor and a insulated foundation its a very stable heat with no wood smoke or mess in the house


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## ET1 SS

A 55-gallon drum made into a biomass stove will do nicely, but it may burn through within a couple years. If it is lined with refractory cement, it will last much longer, but it will also be limited in how much heat it radiates. If two drums are stacked, and only the fire-box drum is lined then the combination stove will still radiate LOTS of heat, AND it should last a long time.

Also that second drum can be designed into being a secondary combustion chamber to double the combustion and BTU output.


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## seedspreader

Couple things... 

Go check out this post for the BEST price on the barrel kit I have found. If you have a TSC in your area... it may be good for you, if not I think you can order online also. http://www.homesteadingtoday.com/showthread.php?t=145150

Secondly... I don't know where in FL you are but check this out. http://cgi.ebay.com/50-GALLON-BARRE...ryZ41987QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem


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## ET1 SS

Since we burn a lot of peat and coal in ours, lighting the coal has been an issue. So I was looking at propane burners to put in the bottom, just for a few minutes to get a good light. Well I found a cast iron burn rated at 55,000 btu, online and I bought it. It arrived yesterday, and I got some black-pipe to extend it's reach, drilled a hole in the backside of the firebox, poked it through, and cemented the hole. Now tonight we used a propane flame underneath the iron grate, to light the coal/peat and it worked nicely.

A good hot fire, from the first minute. I let the propane burn for 10 minutes and then shut it off. Just adding a bit of coal and peat every hour. Now as I am ready for bed the pile of embers is five inches thick and I think should still be fairly hot in the morning.


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## seedspreader

ET1 SS said:


> Since we burn a lot of peat and coal in ours, lighting the coal has been an issue. So I was looking at propane burners to put in the bottom, just for a few minutes to get a good light. Well I found a cast iron burn rated at 55,000 btu, online and I bought it. It arrived yesterday, and I got some black-pipe to extend it's reach, drilled a hole in the backside of the firebox, poked it through, and cemented the hole. Now tonight we used a propane flame underneath the iron grate, to light the coal/peat and it worked nicely.
> 
> A good hot fire, from the first minute. I let the propane burn for 10 minutes and then shut it off. Just adding a bit of coal and peat every hour. Now as I am ready for bed the pile of embers is five inches thick and I think should still be fairly hot in the morning.


You got any pics of that peat burning?


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## ET1 SS

Okay, the ceiling is not finished, nor our the interior walls, our home is still a work in progress.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v205/gyoung09/house/ceiling/woodstove.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v205/gyoung09/house/ceiling/overwoodstove.jpg


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## afrikaner

We used a 210l diesel drum for water heating back in the day. Built it into a concrete and brick hearth. Granted, it is not the most effecient, but it lasted for all of 10 years with daily use. The 210L drum is similar to the 55GAL drums we get here in the USA.
As for living in N. Florida, why not get a used little iron wood stove. It will outlast the cabing and probably put out less heat than a drum stove. You mentioned installing a large thermal mass...a regular ole fireplace might work better for your climate. Running copper coils for hot water is a good idea as far as I can see.


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## ET1 SS

wy_white_wolf said:


> One of the things with barrel stoves is that they have to stay cooler than most other stoves. The thin metal of a barrel was never meant to withstand higher temperatures. All that thermal mass and insulation will destroy the barrel stove.


Good point there. Barrels stoves are made from think metal and will burn through quickly.

I doubt anyone could get more than 40 to 60 years from a barrel stove, assuming it is your sole source of heat.

We cleaned ours this summer. It has been our primary heat source here in Maine since '06.

For folks up North where it gets cold, results may be different. But for around here, I would not trust a barrel stove to last more than 40 years.


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## wy_white_wolf

ET1 SS said:


> Good point there. Barrels stoves are made from think metal and will burn through quickly.
> 
> I doubt anyone could get more than 40 to 60 years from a barrel stove, assuming it is your sole source of heat.
> 
> We cleaned ours this summer. It has been our primary heat source here in Maine since '06.
> 
> For folks up North where it gets cold, results may be different. But for around here, I would not trust a barrel stove to last more than 40 years.


With most burning pine or cottonwood here I wouldn't expect a barrel stove to last 5 years.

WWW


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## ET1 SS

We burn a mixture of pine, birch and poplar.


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## doingitmyself

The reason a barrel doesn't last long outside for a burning barrel is because its exposed to the rain and the unregulated rate of burn. Barrel stoves kits have dampers and air regulating vents that allow burning any kind of wood and will last for many years. I used one for 15 years burning anything i could get but mostly maple or oak. Mine was the small double 30 gallonish size. Try one and you will be surprised the amount of heat the huge surface area of the drum gives off!


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## doingitmyself

Don't use a grate just let about 1.5-2" ash build up to insulate the bottom of the stove and to let the logs burn like a cigar from the door end to the back end very slowly.


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