# Anyone have info on OCD (Osteochondritis Dissecans) in dogs?



## Crazycat (Jan 9, 2013)

Hello everyone! 
I hope i did this right it's my first time posting a new thread please move or delete if I did it wrong! Iâve been a member for several months and really enjoy reading all of the very informative and often funny posts. I could really use some support right now and immediately thought of this site!

I just got back from the vet and she thinks thereâs a chance my large breed dog of around a 1 1/2 years has OCD (Osteochondritis Dissecans) in his shoulder. Iâm just wondering if anyone else has gone through this with their dog and what tests were done to confirm the diagnosis. FYI he's a companion dog.

This all started 2 Â½ weeks ago when my dog jumped out of the seat of the truck and started limping just a little. It didnât get better in a week so I took him to the vet she gave us Vetprofen, after a few days on the Vetprofen his limping/stiffness actually got worse. I took him back and she did an ultrasound and many x-rays. She couldnât find any swelling or abnormalities. She did mention that she thought he acted like his neck was sore, which we hadnât noticed, and wondered if he had a pinched nerve. She told me about OCD but said she wanted to try a mild steroid (Prednisone) for a week to see if that would help. She also told me the next step would be to take him to OSU and have a CT done.

At this point I donât have a firm diagnosis Iâm just the worrying type and want to have as much info as possible so I know what to ask my vet. I had never heard of OCD before today Iâve done some reading on the internet. Of course one of the first comments I read was that their dog had been misdiagnosed and hadnât actually needed the surgery:Bawling:. 
Iâm also considering getting a second opinion from another local vet. Iâm just not sure that Iâm comfortable with the well itâs not this or that so it must be this diagnosis. It wasnât said like that sheâs very professional and Iâve been going there for years but Iâm a concrete sort of person and NOT seeing something on an x-ray isnât proof to me. Although, reading up on this condition it does sound like thereâs a good chance he has it. Maybe I just donât want to accept the possibility that thereâs something serious wrong with my dog that will cost thousands to fix. 

Iâve never felt the need to get a second opinion before how do you recommend I do it? I would think I would have my vet send over all her info so they could go over it and do any additional tests they felt necessary. I also considered having all new x-rays done by a different vet but donât like the idea of my dog being âknockedâ out again or being exposed to radiation again, Iâm just not sure. Thanks for letting me ramble it really helps to know I have people who will read this and try to help!

Please ask for clarification on anything I admit Iâm a bit shocked over this possible diagnosis when I just thought I was taking my dog in for a bad sprain and I may not have been clear on some points! Thank you in advance!


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## bluemoonluck (Oct 28, 2008)

If the OSU you mention is Ohio State U, they have a vet school there and they have specialists who will look at your dog and do a second opinion for you.... I'd make an appointment there yourself and go for an independent eval, rather than having your vet send you there just for the CAT scan. You may or may not want to get the CAT scan, depending on what they say and how severe the pain is for your dog. 

Also, can I ask why did they have to knock your dog out to do the x-ray at the vets office? For a shoulder x-ray I can't figure out why they'd need to anesthetize a dog, unless the dog was aggressive :shrug: The only x-rays that dogs are routinely anesthetized for that I'm aware of are OFA Hip x-rays.

My (human) DD had OCD in her leg. Basically it's just an area of bone that has been cut off from blood flow and has died. She got a few x-rays, 30 days of easy-going, and then she was fine. She got hers doing gymnastics, and after her 30 days off she was right back at the gym, no pain, no further injury.


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## Crazycat (Jan 9, 2013)

Thanks for replying Bluemoonluck!:angel: I should have said Oregon State University itâs a teaching clinic I plan to ask around about it before I take him but I think it has a good reputation. I like the idea of asking them to do the second opinion. I have no idea why they why they anesthetized him for the x-rays heâs fairly calm and absolutely not aggressive! I was surprised when she said they had I thought it was standard procedure :smack to keep the dog still, Iâve never had a dog need x-rays before. 
My dog isnât showing much in the way of pain just a stiff leg Iâve noticed he has a high pain threshold which is making it hard for us to keep him from overdoing it. Thatâs part of the reason I thought this might just be a sprain that was healing slow. My vet said it made it hard for her to figure out whatâs wrong because he wasnât reacting to some of the pressure spots that would help her figure out whatâs wrong.
I wonder about just giving him time to heal and rest like your DD did it makes sense to me but I'm concerned that by waiting if he has OCD he could get worse. I did call OSU and they are normally 3-4 weeks out on appointments so that gives me a little time to see if he improves. 
I think I just need to hear from more of you gals/guys so that I can become more informed! Iâm a little concerned with the fact that she knocked him out to do x-rays, anyone else have an opinion on this? PLEASE everyone keep the advice coming! Thanks!:spinsmiley:


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## GrannyCarol (Mar 23, 2005)

Ok, as a long time breeder that used to have medium sized dogs that were prone to OCD, I would be surprised if that were really the problem. First, it is generally a growth problem that shows up at about age 7 -9 months old, as they are growing fast at that age and a bit of the bone grows so fast the blood supply can't keep up, so it dies and forms a bone chip in the shoulder joint. Second, it started after an injuring from jumping, I'd look there rather than OCD. Third OCD should show up in an x-ray as a chip of bone in the joint. I had a couple of vets diagnose OCD on my puppies that turned out to be just plain injury to the shoulder. 

Now, if your dog is injured, it's possible to chip a bone or damage the shoulder joint. That sort of injury should have shown up in the x-rays too. If you really think it is a bone problem, your dog should be on crate rest to let it heal. Also a pinched nerve generally gets crate rest too. 

As your vet doesn't have a good idea what the problem is, I'd sure look for a second opinion and I wouldn't wait several weeks, it may really benefit from treatment! Would a referral get you in sooner as a more urgent case?

You may want to look into a doggie chiropractor. Or another series of x-rays from a different vet might find a different angle that catches something that was missed the first time, or just a new idea from a different view point would help figure it out. I have to admit I'm confused as to how a clean x-ray brings the diagnosis of OCD. If the bones are ok, I'd be looking at soft tissue damage. He's just not right for OCD, which has a very definite pattern (again 7-9 months of age, fast growing puppy, bone chip found on x-ray). That said, I am NOT a vet, nor am I your vet and I can only offer my experience, which is not a diagnosis or a treatment plan.  He is your dog and you are the one there that can see how he's doing and make the best choices for him, which I am sure you will do. I sure hope he's ok!


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## Crazycat (Jan 9, 2013)

Thanks GrannyCarol! You said exactly what I have been thinking after researching I just don&#8217;t understand how my vet came to this conclusion! Why can&#8217;t it just be a bad sprain but I don&#8217;t want to take any chances! I noticed you said you would be looking into soft tissue damage my vet did ultrasounds wouldn&#8217;t that show soft tissue damage? What type of test should I ask her to do to find soft tissue damage? 
OSU called while I was writing my response to you and they happen to have an appointment available sooner then normal 3-4 week wait. I went ahead and made the appointment because if I&#8217;m going to get a second opinion I want it to be from people who should be experts.


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## GrannyCarol (Mar 23, 2005)

Soft tissue damage will be like muscle pain, I think it can be hard to be sure, more like what is left over when the joints and bones are ok.  You can feel for heat, swelling, an expert can manipulate the joints and feel where the dog resists or is obviously uncomfortable, but those things can exist with bone damage too. That is why chiropractors do x-rays before they go to work, to know what's going on with the bones. 

My friend's almost 2 year old English Setter came up quite "off" a month or two ago, she is showing him and all of a sudden his topline was all hunched up and he wouldn't move out nicely. She had him checked over by an animal chiropractor who has done wonders to get him standing and moving comfortably again. If OSU vet school doesn't find anything concrete, get a recommendation for a chiropractor so that you can get help if he doesn't get better soon. Your poor dog! I'm glad you are going for a second opinion.


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## Crazycat (Jan 9, 2013)

After he hurt himself we checked for swelling and heat we didn't feel any we continue to check periodically. My vet did a thorough manipulation of his shoulder area but he has a high pain threshold. My vet said this made it difficult to do an exam on him but she was concerned because he obviously has stiffness in his shoulder. 
It will be a relief to get a second opinion and I will keep in mind your suggestion about taking him to a chiropractor if OSU doesn't find anything definite. I'm glad your friends dog is doing well!:grin: 
I also want to mention that looking back there might have been a breakdown in communication with my vet. Maybe she meant for OSU to be just a second opinion all along and she wanted me forewarned that there was a _possibility_ for the need of surgery and expensive tests but I sure felt like I was getting sent there with a diagnosis! 
Thanks, I can't tell you how much it helps to have people to "talk" to who have gone through this!


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## GrannyCarol (Mar 23, 2005)

Yeah, I don't know what your vet actually said or was thinking, I wouldn't come back on her. I just think (as a breeder, not a vet) that OCD isn't that likely from the information I have. I could tell you some sad stories about young dogs and shoulder problems, but they aren't relevant to your situation so much. 

Dog 1) I sold an English Setter pup to a young man and his family. He was a runner and eager to take his pup with him. I told him NO running with his dog until it was about a year old, as the joints are done growing and aren't strong enough for that. I got a call when the pup was about 5 months old, "My vet says my puppy has OCD, but we didn't want to pay for x-rays, because they are expensive." Puppy had a contract that I'd take him back if any genetic defect showed up that caused lameness. We talked, I took him back for further testing. Puppy had the tip ends of both his shoulder joints broken off! Turns out they WERE running him against my warning. They agreed to take him back for six weeks crate rest and everything worked out fine. They were a good home, they just didn't realize how important it was to follow the breeder's recommendations, they were very upset that they'd cause this problem. 

Dog 2) A friend sold an ES puppy to a family with other setters. She got a call... puppy was dead lame in the front, it had OCD, come get it. She got her puppy back, took it in for x-rays, the shoulders were badly broken. It was in severe pain, she chose to put it down. Turns out they let their dogs jump out an upstairs window unto a shed roof and then unto the ground as some sort of game. Seemed ok for the fit older dogs, though you have to wonder. In the end, it was the death of the poor puppy. I happened to visit when she was there, the poor thing didn't even want to stand up. It was so sad. 

Neither of these dogs was typical for OCD. I did have one and I saw the x-rays. It was clearly a little bone chip at the end of the joint, not hard for even me to see. Now this might be more obvious than other cases, but OCD is a problem with excessive growth, not injury. It is possible your dog may have chipped a bit of bone jumping down like that and she couldn't find it on her x-rays. My experiences are old in terms of what is available for treatment today, haven't had ES for almost 20 years and Silky Terriers just don't have problems with excessive growth, being 10" tall!  For now, keep your dog quiet, I'd recommend crating him a lot, and not letting him get rowdy, then you should get some other options for treatment after OSU looks at him. Get him healed up from whatever injury he has, then look into whatever physical therapy you can find. My friend's pup with the back problem is swimming at the therapists... now that might be expensive, I don't know. Again, good luck!


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## Pyrenees (Oct 23, 2004)

I'm a vet. I would get a second opinion locally before hitting the vet school. Figuring out a forelimb lameness isn't that difficult.


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## alanjweed (5 mo ago)

I am so sad. My 6 month boxer has been diagnosed with OCD and the vet wants to perform immediate surgery. I don know what to do...
Can someone help me? Is surgery the best way to go? I have read a lot online and I am aware of different options. My breeder is telling me not to do it since he may grow out of it but the Vet is telling me this is the right path forward..

I would really appreciate any feedback.


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