# WHY , Can't I Find a Quality 22 Semi Auto Pistol ??



## fordy (Sep 13, 2003)

..........This makes NO sense to me........There are all kinds of regular Semi Auto 22 Pistols that function just fine !!! And , Yet , Only One Mfger is currently mfging a 22 Mag Semi Auto , that Being the Kel Tec PMR 30 . Owner complaints are that it will , only , reliably work with one specific brand of AMMO , So , I have given UP on investing in their product . 
..........I have read and been told that the 22 Mag caliber will not function reliably because there is NOT enough gas pressure\energy to push the bolt back , extract the brass and push the next round into the chamber . IF true , then HOW is it that the regular 22 round , which has Less Powder , less energy seems to work just fine in a semi auto configuration ? This makes NO sense to me . 
..........Finally , I realize there are older versions of the 22 mag semi auto and maybe therein lies a model for purchase that is a reliable pistol I should consider for purchase . Mfger names and model designations would help . , thanks , fordy


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## GREENCOUNTYPETE (Jul 25, 2006)

can we start with what your looking to do with such a pistol , is there a specific use for a 22mag that something else isn't filling


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## Roadking (Oct 8, 2009)

Grendel P-30
http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=403607931
Excel Arms MP-22
http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=403445909
AMT AutoMag
http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=402919292

Matt


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## fordy (Sep 13, 2003)

GREENCOUNTYPETE said:


> can we start with what your looking to do with such a pistol , is there a specific use for a 22mag that something else isn't filling


 ..................I like the 22 mag because it is light weight , packs a fairly strong punch for it's size and the pistols are not heavy to carry like the larger calibers . 
..................All three of those that Road King posted have jamming problems with various brands of Ammo , because I watched vids on them on You Tube . The designer of the Grendel P-30 also designed the PMR-30 for Kel Tec , and it has jamming problems with some brands of ammo . , fordy


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## simi-steading (Sep 27, 2012)

I can't say that I've ever met even a 22LR semi-auto that isn't real picky about what ammo you put in it... I think with almost any rim fire, it's just the nature of the beast..


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## GREENCOUNTYPETE (Jul 25, 2006)

I think the answer is because quality manufacturers couldn't get them to function up to their standards so they never made them , past initial prototypes 


it is a triple issue your trying to feed a round 1/3 longer than 22lr into a very narrow chamber and make it work as a blow back with a very light bullet and use a strate walled cartridge , if you sat down to design a gun for reliable feeding with a 22cal bullet in a gun you could carry a bunch of rounds in you wouldn't say let me make it long and strait , and while i am at it lets complicate it more by making it rimmed and while we are at it lets try and balance pushing light weight bullets down the barrel with a blow back operation and spring. 

these are all hurdles one or 2 are not so bad but 3 is going to take removing another variable like designing it to work with a specific ammo and bullet nose design

if it were an easy thing to do i think you would see as many 22mag pistols as you do 22mag revolvers people like cheap and powerful in a small package 



if your looking for a light round you can carry a bunch of 5.7x.28 is a rimless bottle neck 22 round with good power and made in quality guns and apparently works very well but cheap is the attribute it lost


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## 1shotwade (Jul 9, 2013)

I think it's all in trying to keep a short shot cycle. The tolerances are exaggerated 22lr spec. If you increased the cycle to fit the ammo it would be longer than the 40 smith.In doing that you've produced a weapon with the "worst" of both worlds.Too small to be an easy care and large enough that you might as well buy the 40 smith.

Wade


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## simi-steading (Sep 27, 2012)

What's .05 more? just get a .45 and be done with it..


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## GunMonkeyIntl (May 13, 2013)

simi-steading said:


> I can't say that I've ever met even a 22LR semi-auto that isn't real picky about what ammo you put in it... I think with almost any rim fire, it's just the nature of the beast..


Say what?!?
Ever hear of the Ruger MK I/II/III or Browning Buckmark?
They're both .22 caliber sewing machines. 

They may break and require maintenance from time to time, but what gun doesn't? I've worked on literally hundreds of them, and never found one of either that wouldn't work with any common, standard 22 load. Heck, scape all of the random loose rounds rotting in the bottom of your change bowl and feed it to any one of mine. When you finally see a stoppage, it will be because you hit one of the shorts or CBs you had in there.


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## 1shotwade (Jul 9, 2013)

GunMonkeyIntl said:


> Say what?!?
> Ever hear of the Ruger MK I/II/III or Browning Buckmark?
> They're both .22 caliber sewing machines.
> 
> They may break and require maintenance from time to time, but what gun doesn't? I've worked on literally hundreds of them, and never found one of either that wouldn't work with any common, standard 22 load. Heck, scape all of the random loose rounds rotting in the bottom of your change bowl and feed it to any one of mine. When you finally see a stoppage, it will be because you hit one of the shorts or CBs you had in there.


I'm shooting the High Standard Victor in the 22lr version and it's a hungry gun. I'll take anything you feed it.You can't beat the accuracy of that thing ,or the ruger,browning or that little colt(Woodsman? maybe?). They will all get'r done.


Wade


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## kbshorts (Dec 6, 2005)

Can't say for sure why there are so few .22M semi autos but my experience with a PMR-30 was miserable. That little pistol wouldn't work reliably with anything I put in it. Sold that thing quick and purchased a Ruger single six, problem solved.


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## GREENCOUNTYPETE (Jul 25, 2006)

I had suspected that the 22mag used a slower powder to get more velocity but didn't have the data , well slower powder or not ,the 22 mag looses a lot going from a 22 inch barrel to a 3 or 4 inch barrel

http://www.ballisticsbytheinch.com/22mag.html

in their real world data a 5.5 inch ruger MKII gets 1294 fps with cci stingers and a ruger bear cat in 5.5 inch barrel gets 1298 with maxi mags even the very light 30 gr 22mag rounds only really gained 200fps over the stingers in the same length barrel

so you could buy a very available Ruger MkII or MKIII with 5.5 inch bull barrel and feed it stingers and get what your looking for for power have easily available parts and accessories and have not really lost much in performance


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## Roadking (Oct 8, 2009)

GunMonkeyIntl said:


> Say what?!?
> Ever hear of the Ruger MK I/II/III or Browning Buckmark?
> They're both .22 caliber sewing machines.
> 
> They may break and require maintenance from time to time, but what gun doesn't? I've worked on literally hundreds of them, and never found one of either that wouldn't work with any common, standard 22 load. Heck, scape all of the random loose rounds rotting in the bottom of your change bowl and feed it to any one of mine. When you finally see a stoppage, it will be because you hit one of the shorts or CBs you had in there.


OP looking for 22* WMR* pistol...LRs are abundant...the Mags...picky.

Matt


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## GunMonkeyIntl (May 13, 2013)

Roadking said:


> OP looking for 22* WMR* pistol...LRs are abundant...the Mags...picky.
> 
> Matt


Yeah. Got that. 
Read the post I quoted.


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## Roadking (Oct 8, 2009)

:thumb:

Matt


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## Danaus29 (Sep 12, 2005)

Dh had an AMT that would reliably eject only brass casing ammo. If it was the nickel plated brass the casing would not eject. This was after it was tweaked and some parts replaced. Wouldn't eject most casings before the tweaking.


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## HuskyBoris (Feb 14, 2013)

does it have to be a semi auto?,,ruger makes a couple of nice 22 mag revolvers as probably some other folks,,great for plinking and varmints but if you are looking for a carry gun go bigger,your life may depend on it.


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## Danaus29 (Sep 12, 2005)

Heritage Arms makes a 9 shot revolver with interchangeable barrels. Pretty inexpensive but shoots nice.


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## MattyD (Nov 22, 2010)

simi-steading said:


> What's .05 more? just get a .45 and be done with it..


Maybe, but there are those of us who like the .40 S&W round! Loving my SD40 VE! 14 plus 1 rounds of .40 S&W fun!! ;-) 

L8R,
Matt


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## 65284 (Sep 17, 2003)

simi-steading said:


> What's .05 more? just get a .45 and be done with it..


 
Right, so just buy a .50 and really have done with it.


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## Pops2 (Jan 27, 2003)

HuskyBoris said:


> does it have to be a semi auto?,,ruger makes a couple of nice 22 mag revolvers as probably some other folks,,great for plinking and varmints but if you are looking for a carry gun go bigger,your life may depend on it.


 some folks are recoil sensative and out of a long enough barrel the 22mag has enough juice to fracture the pelvis wjen you shoot them there


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## GREENCOUNTYPETE (Jul 25, 2006)

but in a 4.5 inch barrel a 22lr with a 32gr cci stinger is 1215fps 

and in a 4.65 inch barrel even a 30gr polymer tip 22 mag only gains 200 fps 
most of the 22mag tested didn't gain much if anything over 22lr until you get to 5.5 inches 22mag needs a longer barrel , you can only burn so much powder in a short barrel


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