# Sticky  where did all the ammo go !



## GREENCOUNTYPETE

A lot of posters have asked where did all the ammo go 

this is usually after they go to a store looking to buy a few more boxes of 22lr for their squirrel or dispatch gun because they have run short on the box or 3 they had 

It could be for any number for any number of reasons , but they may feel like Rip Van Winkle that they just woke up to a hole new world of ammunition supply , demand , and sales 

to find bare shelves and internet sites with OUT OF STOCK - NO BACK ORDER next to nearly every item


The NRA has recently done some research and dispelled many of the myths of where the ammo has gone in a nice article you likely should have already read if you were memebers and like my gun dealer says if you own a gun you should be a member , any way here is the article 
http://www.americanrifleman.org/arti...&cat=27&sub=31



now that you have read through that article let me run the numbers that seem to make most understand 

the NRA estimates there are 100 million gun owners in the USA , I had heard that we gun owners were approaching 47% of the eligible population , and with 300 million people in this country if you take out , the ineligible , kids , felons and Illegal Aliens that does seem sad but fairly accurate.

if just 40% of those 100 million gun owners owned a 22 and woke up one day to the realization that they couldn't go down to the hardware store and buy 50 rounds of their usual brand of ammo for a few dollars so they could go squirrel hunting , or deal with that wood chuck or rabbit eating up their garden or perhaps they were going to teach the grandchild how to shoot on the 22 rifle that has been in the family for many years , well the next time they saw a brick of 22 ammo they would buy it , who wouldn't.

if 40 million people each bought 1 brick 500 rounds of 22lr this isn't a huge investment about 25 dollars per person at usual store prices. 40,000,000 X 500 = 20,000,000,000 that is 20 billion rounds of ammo 

I found a reference at one point that ATK the largest of the US ammo makers responsible for brands CCI and Federal can make about 4 million rounds of 22lr a day.

20,000,000,000 / 4,000,000 = 5,000 

5,000 / 365 = 13.7 years of production 

13.7 /4 major sources 3.4 years , 

in the NRA article most of the manufacturers had plans to increase capacity over the next year adding in other manufacturers , Winchester , Remington , and foreign makers and each adding capacity this year , what was on hand before the shortage I would expect that 1 1/2 years is not unreasonable for the shortage created , obviously there are a bunch of people that will have to have 5 or 10k on hand before they are happy but I hope to see a brick of CCI blazers or Winchester 555 under 30 dollars before the end of 2014

but I am not holding my breath , in the mean time most center fire rifle and pistol cartridges are back on the shelves , make a stop past the gun counter looking for 22lr and take this time to add a box or 2 of each of your center fire rounds to your supplies , I haven't seen ammo prices fall in 20 years and If you will use it I don't see them coming down in the future 

shoot that 22 sparingly as sad as that is, take this time to concentrate on becoming a better shooter with more precise shots and wait it out


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## GREENCOUNTYPETE

yes there are people taking advantage of this that rushed into stores December 14 or 15th 2012 and bought a lot of 22lr and are selling it at double , triple or quadruple what the paid for it they may have bought 20 boxes at 20 dollars and no are selling them at 50 , 75 or 100 dollars a brick.

gander mountain ran a door buster deal black Friday , 69.99 for 1400 rounds of 22lr in a bucket I heard the stores only had a small number of the buckets 20-50 a store , I also heard that the gun show that weekend saw a few of those buckets walking around with a 150 dollar price keep yourself educated , keep checking and if you see those people walking around the gun show with a bucket of ammo that sold for 69.99 two days prior and you know it ask them loudly if that was the ammo that was at the store 2 days ago for 69.99 , that makes everyone turn look and leaves them holding the bucket a while longer 

there are people who know and have the time to be at a store when the truck arrives and wait and buy whatever comes in most stores have implemented 1 box per customer 


I was at a store near my parents this last weekend the guy at the counter was telling me he had a guy come in for a special on 45acp they had a few weeks ago , he bought his 3 box limit , and had his adult son buy his 3 box limit , they got up tot he register and the son asked why he was buying 45 , he said I don't knew but they have it , it's on sale and I might get a 45.

this frenzied buying of ammo people don't even have a gun for isn't helping matters but most people can't drop a bunch of money on ammo they don't use , and those buying it to resell it will stop if they can't make a profit on it , so if you can wait it out , the longer you can wait the better it should get for everyone sooner.


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## bafflez

I get ammo from www.cheaperthandirt.com delivered to my doorstep when the stores are bare. Although Walmart & Cabelas has been better for inventory than a year ago their prices are still high.


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## GREENCOUNTYPETE

CHEAPER THAN DIRT , does have some 22lr ammo but at their current price of 25 to 60 cents + shipping a round for ammo that should be selling for 5 to 10 cents a round is rediculouse and part of the problem

they can keep their ammo at that price and consider me a customer lost to their poor practices


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## simi-steading

I got luchy a mointh or so ago... My wally world had 100 ct CCI stingers for $7... I bought my three... wanted to send my wife up to grab three more, but we had other stuff to do... 

I saw a shortage getting ready to hit, so I hit the gun shows for a couple months buying all I could afford.. My wife wasn't happy, but after the shelves started getting cleaned out she said she was glad I did it... she likes shooing to, and knows that had I of not seeing it getting ready to happen, we wouldn't be shooting now.. 

I shoot a little of my 22... but mostly sitting on it until more starts coming around before I use much more.. I got plenty for hunting, and enough for sighting in, but I really don't like using it for plinking.. .funny.. I wanna plink now I grab my 45 or CZ 9mak.. Although not cheaper, it is easier to get ammo for..


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## bafflez

I figure all the gas I'm burning going back and forth to Walmart to check every day for a week or two to buy ammo, it's usually just easier to order online. Eventually the shortage will tucker out because people can only buy so much I figure. At least you can find some now in rthe stores unlike a year ago.


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## simi-steading

I'm still diggin' my "oddball" calibers.. I never had any problem buying ammo for those guns through the whole mess..


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## GREENCOUNTYPETE

the local gun store I can walk to , but we live surrounded by corn in every direction for 20 miles or more to a city the nearest walmart is 22 miles the next is 30 and 32 , we don't leave town unless we have several things to do when we leave usually it is a hole day gone when we go to the city , we go to the medium sized city 30 miles away to do a big grocery shopping trip every 2 weeks or so.

but I check the stores any time we are in them for something else , driving 50 miles round trip just to check would be a waste but I can hold out a while longer before I pay center fire rifle prices for 22 ammo at the CTD price shot gun shells are cheaper than 22 ammo


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## simi-steading

I hardly every buy ammo in the store... About all I buy at the store typically is 12ga bird shot.. Everything else I get off the web or at the gun show they have every couple months.. 

I find buying in bulk from those places usually get you a better price than buying a box or two at the store. I've also gotten a few really good deals with private sales with people looking for a little cash.


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## bafflez

People laughed at me 2 years ago when I picked up an old Russian Moisin Nagant rifle, when the ammo crunch hit I was laughing because 7.62x54R was and still is cheap and plentiful everywhere.


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## GREENCOUNTYPETE

what do store prices look like out that way , I am just not seeing great online deals like I used to

the 3 line rifle is nothing to laugh at I have looked at them plenty of times but I ask myself , what am I going to use this for that I don't already have covered , and wouldn't be better putting money into ammo or components for


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## simi-steading

What are you looking for?

Store prices here on some I've bought or seen.. 

TulAmmo 45.. 50ct $19.95
Federal 308 20ct $21.95
CCI stinger 100ct $7.48
Winchester 7mm Win Mag 20ct $23.75


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## simi-steading

I've got a friend that is proud of his Mosin.. I just can't get into them.. I've got another friend that has one with the HEx receiver.. yeah,. it's a cooler gun.. but it still fires the same "strange" cartridge.. Something about that rim that throws me.. 

I'm much more of a Mauser fan... better tooling, more accurate, and usually smaller guns..


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## Halfway

Glad to see the glass case at Wal Mart full again. It was always a bit creepy to find it empty after decades of taking it for granted (in a sense).

I never leave a store without a box of ammo for the past couple years. It adds up and really doesn't hurt the budget. 

I sleep better knowing my mags are full.


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## GREENCOUNTYPETE

I am not looking for much of any thing I reload for almost everything I use well except 22lr 

I don't reload slugs "yet" it may happen some day , but wally has all I need on the shelf right now at 12.99 a box of 15 , I just don't shoot many of them I will pick up some more with each trip

being that I reload I see value in a brass case , and will go the extra few dollars for bras cased pistol ammo , but I hardly ever buy any most people leave enough brass lying around at the range for me to keep going 

if only they would shoot brass cases 7.62x39 for the ammount of that I clean up at the range I would be set for a long time if it was brass 

the rimmed cartridge is a bonus , head spacing is almost never an issue because it head spaces to the rim not the shoulder 

you can if you have brass cases for the mosin load mouse fart to full power with no fear of setting back a shoulder the only 2 strikes the mosin has against it are so so sights with not an easy way to use optics or a peep sight and a effective but hard to put on and off safety the way we use a fire arms safety has changed in 130 years


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## simi-steading

I've got a few cases of brass 7.62x39, but I don't shoot it... too expensive.. I just keep on blasting away with all the steel case stuff... By the time you figure time and supplies to reload, it just as easy to buy more steel case stuff..


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## GREENCOUNTYPETE

luck gunner did a test steel vs brass , they found that about 6500 rounds of the bimetallic 223 bullets ate the barrel out , the price difference between 6500 rounds of 223 fedral vs tula isn't so bad when you figure you don't need to re-barrel till 12000 rounds of fedral 

7.62x39 isn't under the same pressure that 223 so it may not be as affected , but it would be interesting to see.


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## simi-steading

Wonder if it's a big difference having a chrome lined barrel... or is the chamber not chromed too?

I'd say I've put around 5000 rounds through my SKS at the least.. and still a good looking barrel.. but haven't miked it either..


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## bluetogreens

I would find it hard to buy the barrel blow out theory, need to find the article. the ammo is loaded to same spec and the jackets are the same, I see no way for the steel ever to come into contact with the grooves to be of consequence. but I admit I am far from any type of expert on bullets.

ETA i see they are using bometal jackets never mind.

Good article all around, but still shows the steel cased coming out cheaper over time. ( of course they did not mention reloading, so brass with reloading compared to my old notes comes out comparable to steel)


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## GREENCOUNTYPETE

go grab a round of wolf 7.62x39 and a magnet , the bullet attrats a magnet , now pull the round down , and grab a side cutters cut it open , the jacket is steel , copper washed steel but still steel

grab a copper jacketed bullet this one won't attract a magnet cut it in half with the side cutters , it will take about half the effort 

both are lead cores , but he wolf is a copper plated steel jacket much harder than copper 

here is the test http://www.luckygunner.com/labs/brass-vs-steel-cased-ammo/


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## bluetogreens

I read the article, my original thought was only about the cores, not about the bi-metal jacket. I cannot be 100% certain as the ammo is long sicne gone, but I swear that silver/brown bear was not bi-metal jacket. It was along the lines of thinking about the green tip which is a steel core lead bullet with copper jacket etc. I brain fart sometimes  

But as the article states the conditions these weapons where abused in are non typical, I wonder how much the prolong intense heat played in the degradation. Obviously with a harder metal mix, there would be erosion, but how much with "normal" use. I have fired thousands of rounds through many weapons, but never concentrated like that and never in such conditions. and considering that a match barrel, with match ammo is still blown out at 10-15k rounds I wonder if it is "worth it". if a blown out barrel is still minute of man at 250yds, Im good.


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## bassmaster17327

bafflez said:


> People laughed at me 2 years ago when I picked up an old Russian Moisin Nagant rifle, when the ammo crunch hit I was laughing because 7.62x54R was and still is cheap and plentiful everywhere.


Only one Mosin, everyone should own a few Mosins


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## simi-steading

Everything I've ever read about the Mosin has said if you want an accurate one, you need to have the bayonet on it.. They believe it has to do with the weight and length of it changing the harmonics of the barrel.


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## bassmaster17327

Different guns will shoot differently with or without the bayonet, some of mine shoot better with the bayonet and some shoot better without. The one with the scope has the barrel cut down so the bayonet can not be attached, I get about three inch groups at 100 yards and have taken three deer with it in the last two years.


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## simi-steading

I've read that many of them are 2 and 3 MOA, which sounds like you've found the same with them. I have heard the hard to find sniper ones were guns the military had found in the arsenals that shot better than the others, so they fitted them with scopes and none were ever purpose built as sniper rifles from the factory.

I've read some really interesting history about them... Just never been able to bring myself to want one.. I've seen a few and handled a couple, but never shot one..


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## bluetogreens

simi-steading said:


> I've read that many of them are 2 and 3 MOA, which sounds like you've found the same with them. I have heard the hard to find sniper ones were guns the military had found in the arsenals that shot better than the others, so they fitted them with scopes and none were ever purpose built as sniper rifles from the factory.
> 
> I've read some really interesting history about them... Just never been able to bring myself to want one.. I've seen a few and handled a couple, but never shot one..


They hit like a truck, are somewhat unwieldy are about 20lbs heavier than they need to be and throw huge fireballs, so in otherwords a perfect rifle for warfare. Hunting ammo, surplus ammo, low recoil ammo, anti-material ammo, tracers etc. are all plentiful for them and even a beater is combat accurate after being bubba'd. for less than .30 a round, one would be very hard pressed to find this kind of ability/power/reliability in such an economical platform.


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## simi-steading

Try as I might to like the idea of owning one, I still keep liking my Mausers a lot more... Yeah, they are a little more expensive to shoot, but they are a whole lot more accurate, and lighter, and refined.. Granted too, every time I find another I want, it's not near as cheap as a Mosin either.. 

As for a rifle like you're describing, I love my SKS.. Nope, it's not as accurate as the Mosin is... and it doesn't hit as hard, BUT, It's got quantity of rounds over the Mosin. I like the Spray and pray idea...


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## GREENCOUNTYPETE

I found WOLF has a gold line and wolf performance , black box for performance vs gold box for the gold line , the gold line is a copper jacketed bullet the black performance is bi-metallic 

the price difference is appears to be 6 cents a round more for copper bullets ,for 3 cents more a round you can have re-loadable brass that is worth more than 3 cents a case or more just to sell it as once fired brass


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## simi-steading

I've never bought Wolf.. For years I was buying white box russian surplus for my SKS none of it was magnetic.... Only recently have I started buying TulAmmo for it. I also just picked some up for my .45 too... I've not checked it, but I have read it's magnetic.. 

I do still have some old Norinco boxed stuff, but it's non magnetic too..


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## GREENCOUNTYPETE

the norinco stuff was good ammo I have a few rounds of that around someplace, they even made brass cased 223 norinco ammo 

hind sight is 20/20 remember 99 dollar rifles and 10 cent a round ammo , a friend and I talked about buying a case of sks's on his dads FFL and we could all have 69 dollar rifles but we never got around to it with gas at a dollar a gallon and it took 40 dollars to fill both tanks on my truck and then the ban in 94 and the price jumped


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## simi-steading

Yeah.. I sure do remember those times.. I never had money for bulk buys though.. well.. I bought bulk ammo, but not guns.. Man I wish I knew what I did now.. 

I've got a Swedish Mauser that I've also got the ad that was cut from the paper that it was bought from... 24.99 delivered to your door.. 

It's a sweet gun.. numbers matching and beautiful metal and wood. Only thing is it was sporterized, BUT, it was done really right.. original stock that was bedded and it was cut down, but had a much better sight put on it and the crown is recessed into the barrel... That thing will drive a 16 penny nail all day... 

Yeah, it's a drag it was sporterized as far as value goes, BUT, it's a much nicer hunting rifle than it would be stock.. 

Could you imagine if we would have bought a case of those at $25?.. But then again, $25 was cheap considering what you were getting, BUT, it was still somewhat of a fair investment if you wanted to stock up..


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## bafflez

Those Wolf rounds are a little hot if I recall. I shoot with the Herters (cabella) brand or that Czech one (name escapes me), both have reloadable brass. I think the gun shoots best at 148gr. I've shot the 196gr stuff, and the kick was pretty awful and accuracy went down. I'd buy a second one but I liked them better at $109, not so much at $179.


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## bluetogreens

for my mosin's, I have a substantial amount of surplus, a healthy amount of bear soft point, and a sickly but growing and almost passable brass cased winchester and sellior bellot.


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## bafflez

I've thought about buying a spam can or two of Bulgarian military surplus but you can't shoot the boattail bullets at the range in Missouri. How do you like the military surplus ammo?


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## GREENCOUNTYPETE

bafflez said:


> I've thought about buying a spam can or two of Bulgarian military surplus but you can't shoot the boattail bullets at the range in Missouri. How do you like the military surplus ammo?


I have heard of no ammo that attracts a magnet at some ranges but , why no boat tail ammo , a fair number of match ammo is boat tail 

boat tail ammo also reduces chamber pressure by reducing bearing surface of a bullet 

I suppose it could be the fear of going farther but that seems like a fine line of distinction to make


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## bafflez

Reason given was the bullet will punch through the backstop of the range.


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## simi-steading

The only thing I know about boat tail is that it's more accurate because there's less drag on it because of reduced turbulence behind the slug as it flies through the air.. Never heard it would be faster or have more punch..


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## GREENCOUNTYPETE

because the reduced bearing surface there is less preasure under the bullet of the same wight compated to a flat base bullet so you can increase the charge and push them faster with the same pressure as a standard flat base bullet , but were talking a hundred maybe 2 hundred feet per second 

then they carry that speed further because of the decreased wind resistance , giving a slightly flatter trajectory but it doen't make it laser flat just a few inches at a few hundred yards flatter so if a flat base 150 gr bullet drops 17 inches at 500 yards a boat tail might only drop 13 inches and retaining some of the energy it left the barrel with.

but that is like drawing the distinction that the range is ok to shoot 308 but not 30-06 really 300 fps with the same bullet puts you over the ability of your backstop to stop it , then you need a better back stop.

but part of why I think you get strange restrictions like this is because 308 was never available in armor piercing to civilians but 30-06 was they could just say no armor piercing but for what ever reason they didn't 

I figure something like this is the reason why no boat tails are allowed , but how do they check , do you have to shoot only manufactured ammo from factory boxes , and check your boxes


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## bafflez

Yes, they check ammo at public range when you check in green tip, steel core and boattails aren't allowed on the range.


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## GREENCOUNTYPETE

I was at wallys last Friday evening for some other things and figured i would stop over and ask at the gun counter the girl wasn't sure if they had any 22lr but checked , i got my 3 boxes and i think they had 3 left 

it was remingtion golden bullets and i have had mixed results with them in the past in one semi auto but at 5.4 cents a round with tax I figured if I could always use them in a revolver or bolt action 

22 always used to just be out on the shelf with the shotgun shells , but they now hide any 22 they get under the counter and you have to ask if they have any and they walk them up to the register for you.

it is worth stopping to ask if you happen to be there any way , every once in a while you get lucky 

they are making it , but any time it is found it is bought up quickly


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## Dannyboy

GREENCOUNTYPETE said:


> CHEAPER THAN DIRT , does have some 22lr ammo but at their current price of 25 to 60 cents + shipping a round for ammo that should be selling for 5 to 10 cents a round is rediculouse and part of the problem
> 
> they can keep their ammo at that price and consider me a customer lost to their poor practices


One of the main sources my wife and I use is http://gunbot.net/. Occasionally we buy factory rounds but we reload most of our own, that being .357 Mag, .45 ACP, .30-30 and .270.

Gunbot is a decent source and has something for just about any shooter.


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## hoosier hubby

Someone commented that the mosin was hard to equip with optics but every one I've seen is dove tailed under the rear sight. Remove it and use a pistol scope since it is so far forward. the guns are still reasonable and so is ammo. Also if you don't mind steel 7.62x39 is still plentiful and only about 220$ per 1000.


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## Ryan Paul Romer

I know that there are warehouses stored with nothing but AMMO. Some of the guys I worked with offshore did National Guard that did guard duty on some of these places. So military has a stock pile of ammo they do not normally use, why I don't know. I just know they have warehouses full that the military is not suppose to talk about. I also know that these guys were asked if they would shot american citizens, Why would anyone ask a question like that to a military man? I don't know that either, but I know its being asked as several told me this who do NG and other military. Odd stuff.


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## bafflez

I found this scope for the mosin nagant at a camera store. Rebuilt exactly like the original Russian scope.

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/con...KjjqLGsl74CFQET7AodkmQA_A&Q=&is=REG&A=details


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## ace admirer

no boat tail allowed?!?!? 
penetrating core and tracer rounds banned at most ranges,
i don.t know of anyone that doesn't shoot boat tailed at the ranges i frequent.

wonder what would be a problem with the back of a projectile?


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## GeneMO

The M-855. They claim it has not sporting purpose.

This is a steel core ammo. Not the regular full metal jacket.

My concern is, how easy for them to label something as "no sporting purpose"
and next thing you know, they ban it.

I fear we haven't seen anything yet out of this lawless, gun grabbing bunch of leftists.

Just do a google search on NRA-ILA to see the article that came out Friday, Feb. 13th, 2015.

Gene


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## dltasig7

Unfortunately, in NY, I can't mail order anymore after Emperor Cuomo's SAFE Act without having it shipped to a dealer (for a fee of course.)

The GOOD news is that .22 is FINALLY coming into the stores here in enough quantities, that it' staking them 1-3 days to sell out of it rather than 1/2 the days it arrives!


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## dltasig7

GREENCOUNTYPETE said:


> yes there are people taking advantage of this that rushed into stores December 14 or 15th 2012 and bought a lot of 22lr and are selling it at double , triple or quadruple what the paid for it they may have bought 20 boxes at 20 dollars and no are selling them at 50 , 75 or 100 dollars a brick.
> 
> gander mountain ran a door buster deal black Friday , 69.99 for 1400 rounds of 22lr in a bucket I heard the stores only had a small number of the buckets 20-50 a store , I also heard that the gun show that weekend saw a few of those buckets walking around with a 150 dollar price keep yourself educated , keep checking and if you see those people walking around the gun show with a bucket of ammo that sold for 69.99 two days prior and you know it ask them loudly if that was the ammo that was at the store 2 days ago for 69.99 , that makes everyone turn look and leaves them holding the bucket a while longer
> 
> there are people who know and have the time to be at a store when the truck arrives and wait and buy whatever comes in most stores have implemented 1 box per customer
> 
> 
> I was at a store near my parents this last weekend the guy at the counter was telling me he had a guy come in for a special on 45acp they had a few weeks ago , he bought his 3 box limit , and had his adult son buy his 3 box limit , they got up tot he register and the son asked why he was buying 45 , he said I don't knew but they have it , it's on sale and I might get a 45.
> 
> this frenzied buying of ammo people don't even have a gun for isn't helping matters but most people can't drop a bunch of money on ammo they don't use , and those buying it to resell it will stop if they can't make a profit on it , so if you can wait it out , the longer you can wait the better it should get for everyone sooner.


Our new Field & Stream store recently had the same bucket deal at that price.


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## dltasig7

...prices are coming down too! 1.5 - 2 years ago, I was paying $14.99 for 100 rounds of high velocity .22 LR. Now I'm seeing 100 for $9.99!!!


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## GREENCOUNTYPETE

dltasig7 said:


> ...prices are coming down too! 1.5 - 2 years ago, I was paying $14.99 for 100 rounds of high velocity .22 LR. Now I'm seeing 100 for $9.99!!!



that is still 99 dollars a brick ,maybe for some specialty ammo but ouch and I thought 48 a brick for CCI segmented quiets was to much


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## GeneMO

The reason ammo is short, and will get much, much shorter is Obama. We got two more years of him, and we haven't seen anything yet when it comes to executive orders. And there will thousands of criminals let out of prison on executive pardons. They generally hold those till the last few days of being in office.

Gene


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## Malamute

GeneMO said:


> The M-855. They claim it has not sporting purpose.
> 
> This is a steel core ammo. Not the regular full metal jacket.
> 
> My concern is, how easy for them to label something as "no sporting purpose"
> and next thing you know, they ban it.
> 
> I fear we haven't seen anything yet out of this lawless, gun grabbing bunch of leftists.
> 
> Just do a google search on NRA-ILA to see the article that came out Friday, Feb. 13th, 2015.
> 
> Gene


You titled your post "*BATFE to ban .223 Green tip ammo". *
That isnt a forgone conclusion, its a proposal. At this point, theres quite a lot of people asking some pointed questions about this, including over 170 reps that have signed a letter to the ATF telling them they think its a bad idea.

Fearmongering isnt helping. Making political speculation about it doesnt help either.

If you dont like it, send some comments to the appropriate people. Nice, well written, respectable comments that they will listen to. Comments that makes the writer look like they arent capable of stringing sentences together rationally, or come across as threatening arent helpful or productive.

...and actually, its apparently not all that easy for them to do these days. Besides the fact that its based on the ammo being steel cored, there isnt much else they have to go on to ban any other type of ammo. They (wrongly) stopped importation from china of steel core 7.62x39 20-some years ago, and theres tons of x39 around for the cheapest prices of any centerfire ammo that I know of. They stirred up a bunch of people over this recent thing about M855. It isnt looking good for them right now. Just saying "they can ban anything they want" is wrong, misleading, and fearmongering. Its that incorrect outlook that is leading ill informed or uninformed people to hoover *all* the 223/5.56 ammo up, even stuff _entirely unrelated_ to the proposed ban. That sort of thinking is as much the problem as those that proposed the M855 ban.


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## dltasig7

GeneMO said:


> The reason ammo is short, and will get much, much shorter is Obama. We got two more years of him, and we haven't seen anything yet when it comes to executive orders. And there will thousands of criminals let out of prison on executive pardons. They generally hold those till the last few days of being in office.
> 
> Gene


He's not the only one to blame though. We need to be just as concerned about a certain female presidential hopeful and what 8 years of her might do in addition to his last 2.

I don't own an AR, not for any other reason than I really haven't wanted one, and am new to guns and hunting, so my available money has gone into stuff I can use more where I live (shotgun and .22). However, I certainly DON'T want anyone else's AR to be made illegal, taken, or rendered useless because the ammo is unavailable.


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## GREENCOUNTYPETE

a local shop started advertizing on their facebook page the green tip 5.56 that they had 12,500 rounds in stock come and get it 

I don't think 12,500 is as much as they think it is when people start buying it 1k at a time


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## carasel

Tin foil hat time. All this talk about the proposed m855 ban. Also O's stance against Israel. "IMI" Israel Military Industries. Is a large producer and exporter to this country of the m855. Coincidence?


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## shortie

bafflez said:


> People laughed at me 2 years ago when I picked up an old Russian Moisin Nagant rifle, when the ammo crunch hit I was laughing because 7.62x54R was and still is cheap and plentiful everywhere.


I have two Mosins, a 91/30 and 91/59. Surplus ammo was available for 17 cents per round when I purchased the rifles. It's a bit more expensive now and I don't notice as many spam can deals like 5-6 years ago. Nagants are good old guns to have. They have some serious recoil like most military calibers. If shooting the surplus ammo be sure to read up on cleaning methods for corrosive ammo as the primers are what make the surplus so.


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## Oontry4

last year...after a soul-searching period of time.I sold EVERY gun I owned that chambered .22rf.....EVERY ONE! I will not be held hostage to these greedy jerks. Ive always reloaded anyway, and now just load-down many of my calibers for simple shooting. Straight-walled cases can be reloaded many,many,many,many times , and have lots of fun doing it. I now have about 5k .38special rnds,8k .357 rounds,5k.45acp rounds,and 2k 45-70 rounds. All of these have "variable" powder charges from low,low velocity to very "hot" loads(depending on duty reqd). I do not regret my decision.


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## tc556guy

As an FFL for 20-plus years the last few have been interesting, certainly
I did my best to keep ammo on the shelf for my regulars during the darkest days after Sandy Hook.
Most calibers are available now, even if you can't find the particular brand or load that you want.
Rimfire is the exception, and I think there are three reasons for that
One, it's a popular caliber, usually the caliber that most new shooters start out with. Lots of new shooters out there
Two, speculation. There are people who buy up what they can and try to flip it for a profit. Good for them, bad for the people who work for a living who can't stand in line at the big box stores buying up the ammo to flip
Third, I think the big box stores who buy in bulk put in so many backordered ammo orders during the panic that manufacturers are still catching up. That's why you can find pallets of ammo at the box stores while little guys like me are hard-pressed to find it in stock at our distributors


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## Vahomesteaders

Our little country store is stocking ammo now. Tons of .22. And only 26 a brick. They sidi have 17hmr and most pistol rounds as well as 223. I'm so stoked about it.


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## GREENCOUNTYPETE

things have definitely gotten better my LGS has everything now even limited 22lr in bricks

I have been seeing brass cased 115gr 9mm by the case offered for about 12 dollars a box delivered for a while I wasn't sure we would see anyone offering ammo by the case any more much less letting you order as many cases as you want 

as soon as 22lr finishes catching up we should be sitting good again but wait another election year coming in 2016 aaarrrgggg...


I just looked back to see when I started this thread ,its been the discussion since late December 2012 I started this thread in Jan 2014 and it's mid June 2015 and we are seeing things better but not fully recovered now just as we enter into the next election mess. what a miserable cycle.

stock up while you can.


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## tarbe

22 LR is still impossible to find on the cheap (ie 5 cents per round or less) even for the plinking quality ammo in bulk. This in the Houston area.

Mostly, I still see oddball stuff at 10 cents a round and higher...target ammo and the like.


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## Vahomesteaders

Our country store is selling federal bricks for 25 and Remington for 30. The 100 round cci are going for 7 a box.


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## Lookin4GoodLife

Bricks of 500? That's awesome. Still no 22LR anywhere around here. Every once in a while I'll see a sticker on the shelf at Walmart like they *did* have some, but I never get in there early enough I guess.


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## Vahomesteaders

Yep. They are fully stocked here in mountains of va. Every store has them. I figured the shortage was over. Lol


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## GREENCOUNTYPETE

it has gotten better you can have everything and several options of everything besides 22lr here


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## Lookin4GoodLife

Strange that you still can't find anything decent on gunbot.net. I guess there's just so many people ordering that the deals dry up by the time they hit the web site.


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## JJ Grandits

Went to Cabela's to do some Christmas shopping and low and behold found an entire self full of my favorite .22 ammo I have been searching for over two years to find. Hopefully the drought is over. These came out to about .06 apiece. Not great, but I'll take it. went out a week later and shot up a brick. Haven't done that in a long time.


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## WVhillbilly

In WV we have a good supply of 22 just about everywhere except some of the smaller pawn shops. My biggest problem is finding 7mm-08


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## tc556guy

WVhillbilly said:


> My biggest problem is finding 7mm-08


No shortage of that at distributors
Your FFL can't order any for you?


----------



## Cabin Fever

tc556guy said:


> No shortage of that at distributors
> Your FFL can't order any for you?


You don't need to be an FFL to order ammo. Anyone can do it.

http://www.sportsmansguide.com/prod...e-ammo/7mm-08-remington-ammo?d=121&c=96&s=980


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## tc556guy

Cabin Fever said:


> You don't need to be an FFL to order ammo. Anyone can do it.
> 
> http://www.sportsmansguide.com/prod...e-ammo/7mm-08-remington-ammo?d=121&c=96&s=980


FFLs can get it cheaper than most of the ammo sites. Of course then you get the added expense of sales tax in states that charge state tax
In my state ammo for a while was absolutely NOT shippable direct to buyer thanks to the SAFE act
That part of the law was put on hold but many ammo suppliers are still not willing to ship buyer-direct


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## alleyyooper

Some states(ny) you can not buy ammo off the net any longer. BUT maybe if your a FFL holder you can?

 Al


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## Lowground

Bricks of 22 are still hard to come by here and cost 50 to 70 bucks. I remember when they cost less than 10 and that was during the '90s.


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## tc556guy

Lowground said:


> Bricks of 22 are still hard to come by here and cost 50 to 70 bucks. I remember when they cost less than 10 and that was during the '90s.


On the dealer side, even without shortages, ammo prices go up about 5% a year. You're never going to see 1990s ammo prices again, especially the cheap foreign mil surp stuff that's no longer imported into the US


----------



## GREENCOUNTYPETE

35 dollars is the best I have seen for a 555 pack of bulk ammo that is just over 6 cents a round , that is really as good as it gets anymore 

for anything like CCI standard velocity expect 45-50 dollars for 500

you can always check gun bot http://www.gunbot.net/ammo/rimfire/22lr/ it keeps tabs on ammo from online retailers with updates I think every 15 minutes


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## alleyyooper

22LR ammo is still selling here for 8 to 15 cents a round, of course the better brands are more.

22mag ammo is from a dine to 20 cents a round here also.
No 22 rim fire or any rim fire ammo for that matter to be had at the Wal Mart store in a 50 mile radis, Meijers. 
You have to almost go to a local gun shop to get it.

 Al


----------



## Lookin4GoodLife

Right before Christmas, I actually found the 555 round boxes of Winchester at Walmart for $26 and change.


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## Vahomesteaders

Tens of thousands of rounds on the shelves here. 555 winchester going for 20.00 a box. Amazing how location makes huge difference.


----------



## RonM

Now that Trump gets in maybe the manufacturers will rev up the production....


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## Texaspredatorhu

Production is higher than ever. The problem is the hoarders that don't work and wait for the stores to stock the shelves and buy all of the boxes up. Fortunately we don't have that problem and the shelves are full up of dang near any rim fire you want. Honestly there's no shortage anywhere near me.


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## GREENCOUNTYPETE

maybe once trump is in office hoarders will find something else to do , I suggest maybe they start a early morning card game.
just anything besides clearing the shelves of ammunition.

it does seem to be a regional thing manufacturers have been turning out record amounts for 4 years added capacity and still selling out shelves all the time.

I figured it would quit when everyone who owned a 22lr had 1-2K per gun sitting on the shelf in their homes , maybe I underestimated and everyone had to have 3K my initial estimate at the 2013 production levels was that 3.5 years was what it would take to produce enough ammo for every 22lr owner to buy and store 1K.

3.5 years is about when I started seeing any on the shelf with any regularity.


----------



## JJ Grandits

Since the shortage I started picking up some ,22 where ever I found them. Now I am in the habit of grabbing some every couple three weeks.
Since my rifles like Winchester ammo I buy a 325 or 555 box when I do get it.I probably have about 4k rounds right now. 
That might sound like a lot but between myself, my son and my nephew we can burn up a brick pretty fast.

I think a 10k reserve is a good idea. If the poop ever does hit the fan it will be the currency of choice.


----------



## GREENCOUNTYPETE

5K per person really isn't that much if you are a regular shooter , for others it is more than a life time of shooting 

a 2 year supply whatever that is for you is a good idea , as you use it up replace it so that you have a rolling 2 year supply.


----------



## Texaspredatorhu

I still have 3 bricks of Winchester wild cat I think it's called when I was a kid it was 79 cents a box of 50 and I think the brick prices were 7 bucks. I don't even know if they make that one anymore but my marlin and Henry love the stuff.


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## JJ Grandits

Went out with my great nephew a couple of week back and we went through a brick in an hour and a half. A couple of 10/22's will really burn them up.
I was breaking in the one I bought my wife for Christmas. That little baby is a real shooter. Very happy.


----------



## chickenguy

GREENCOUNTYPETE said:


> yes there are people taking advantage of this that rushed into stores December 14 or 15th 2012 and bought a lot of 22lr and are selling it at double , triple or quadruple what the paid for it they may have bought 20 boxes at 20 dollars and no are selling them at 50 , 75 or 100 dollars a brick.
> 
> gander mountain ran a door buster deal black Friday , 69.99 for 1400 rounds of 22lr in a bucket I heard the stores only had a small number of the buckets 20-50 a store , I also heard that the gun show that weekend saw a few of those buckets walking around with a 150 dollar price keep yourself educated , keep checking and if you see those people walking around the gun show with a bucket of ammo that sold for 69.99 two days prior and you know it ask them loudly if that was the ammo that was at the store 2 days ago for 69.99 , that makes everyone turn look and leaves them holding the bucket a while longer
> 
> there are people who know and have the time to be at a store when the truck arrives and wait and buy whatever comes in most stores have implemented 1 box per customer
> 
> 
> I was at a store near my parents this last weekend the guy at the counter was telling me he had a guy come in for a special on 45acp they had a few weeks ago , he bought his 3 box limit , and had his adult son buy his 3 box limit , they got up tot he register and the son asked why he was buying 45 , he said I don't knew but they have it , it's on sale and I might get a 45.
> 
> this frenzied buying of ammo people don't even have a gun for isn't helping matters but most people can't drop a bunch of money on ammo they don't use , and those buying it to resell it will stop if they can't make a profit on it , so if you can wait it out , the longer you can wait the better it should get for everyone sooner.


Amen, never buy from the old guys that sit in walmart at 4 in the morning on ammo day just so they can buy the limit and resell to people who actually use ammunition


----------



## diamondtim

Most of the problem today, and has been for quite some time, are the horders and those who resell at gun shows. I still see .22 that sold at the store for $20-23 bucks sitting on some dealers table for $45. 

I refuse to buy from them and wish others had the same self-control.


----------



## GREENCOUNTYPETE

diamondtim said:


> Most of the problem today, and has been for quite some time, are the horders and those who resell at gun shows. I still see .22 that sold at the store for $20-23 bucks sitting on some dealers table for $45.
> 
> I refuse to buy from them and wish others had the same self-control.


the last gun show I worked in March I had one guy who has a table and buys ammo and other things at good prices to resell at a profit at the show changing the price because everyone was lower than he was and complaining how he was going to take a loss on those last 3 bricks. 

I didn't feel real sorry for him I think he made 15-20 dollars a piece on all the other bricks he sold while the price was high.


----------



## diamondtim

GREENCOUNTYPETE said:


> the last gun show I worked in March I had one guy who has a table and buys ammo and other things at good prices to resell at a profit at the show changing the price because everyone was lower than he was and complaining how he was going to take a loss on those last 3 bricks.
> 
> I didn't feel real sorry for him I think he made 15-20 dollars a piece on all the other bricks he sold while the price was high.


I believe in free enterprise, but my heart pumps peanut butter for those who prevent others from buying an item at the market price, only to profit from the same people later. My wish would be that he be forced to sit on those bricks for a year or two and then donate them to your youth program.


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## GREENCOUNTYPETE

the good news is ATK/Federal has been very good to us youth programs we get to buy direct at what has to be cost or very close to it , we register with the national shooting sports foundation then when we are listed by the NSSF as a youth shooting sports organization we get an order form emailed to us , there is a limit to how much we can buy but it is plenty to run our program on , we also have to sign that we will not re-sell or let any of it be used for non youth shooting related shooting. they offer 22lr , 12ga and 20ga ammo through this program.


----------



## Darren

RyanBrandon said:


> Thanks God that I have gun safe at home and I don't have any trouble . I have HOMEGEAR 5 RIFLE ELECTRONIC GUN SAFE and I can put not only my gun or ammo Also I can put all my valuable staff in it .


Thieves in WV head straight for the gun safe and rip it out of the house. Obviously they do not care about the damage they cause. Once they have it, they can take their time opening it. If I bought a safe, I'd use it as a decoy. Anything valuable would be someplace else and well hidden. The decoy safe would house several bad batteries fastened to the floor for weight.


----------



## Jolly

Coming down.... 22LR, 6 cents/round in bulk:
http://usarmorment.com/ammunition-c...ber-game-shok-710-5000-round-case-p-2943.html


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## GLORY-JASMINE

Same here in SC. No 22 basically anywhere. And those that do have it have jacked the price so high bc they know it's in demand right now. They are taking advantage of us bc they're aware that nobody has it. That's bad practice right there. 
Good thing for multiple choices when it comes to weapons!!
God bless,
Glory


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## Texaspredatorhu

Take a look at internet gun prices, it's all coming down, slowly but surely. No need to worry about gun grabbers from the fed right now


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## GLORY-JASMINE

This is why my husband and I always stock up when there's plenty. Never wait until you actually need it. You'll most likely be screwed. Plan ahead,prevention is key. Be prepared ALWAYS! 
#FIRMBELIEVERINTHE2NDAMMENDMENT
GOD BLESS,
Glory


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## GREENCOUNTYPETE

ryanbrandon post looks to be spam , first post , out of context, link to item , all signs of spam , and has been deleted.


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## yetavon

I was checking every time I was at a store for 22LR, if it wasn't super over priced I would grab some, with half going to a family member someplace with very repressed rights...
Since I could reload 9 cheaper than buying 22, it only came out for squirls... so my collections around 4000 rounds


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## tushar

I love the Gun Safe. Its not only gives protection from theft but also gives royal look at home LOL. Right now I want to purchase a Gun safe under 500 and I found it on this website is that cool? http://madwithguns.com/best-gun-safe-under-500/


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## tushar

Darren said:


> Thieves in WV head straight for the gun safe and rip it out of the house. Obviously they do not care about the damage they cause. Once they have it, they can take their time opening it. If I bought a safe, I'd use it as a decoy. Anything valuable would be someplace else and well hidden. The decoy safe would house several bad batteries fastened to the floor for weight.


 what? Gun Safe is not safe as well is that right? so what we do choose to keep guns and ammo safe?


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## Darren

Thieves ripping ATM machines out and driving away shows the mentality, Any thief entering your home is going to immediately notice a safe. What happens after that is up to you. No matter what you do to bolt down the safe isn't going to work short of major structural reinforcements. Hide your firearms somewhere else that's not noticeable.


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## Lookin4GoodLife

Was in Walmart the other day and they actually had .22 stocked on the shelves around 5 cents a round. The Federal 325 box and the..... I think it was Winchester 555 box. Several of each.


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## Texaspredatorhu

Academy doesn't even have it behind the counter anymore here. Bass pro lifted the limits long ago.


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## JJ Grandits

.05 a round is pretty good.


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## GREENCOUNTYPETE

5 cents is a great price in 2017 
the days of 19.95 bricks of 500 are over , that would be .0399 cents a round , this was a good price in 2004 -2008

depending what you want the new norm even after things have gotten much better for availability is 6-10 cents for most anything 

I got a price on CCI standard velocity by the brick and case the other day for the club , 39.99 a brick or 390 a case and that price came with the but we are down to 4 bricks and our distributor is out right now.


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## mustangglp

After the first of the year ammunition supply should be looking real good for everyone outside of California.


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## GREENCOUNTYPETE

mustangglp said:


> After the first of the year ammunition supply should be looking real good for everyone outside of California.


why is that ?


----------



## mustangglp

A


GREENCOUNTYPETE said:


> why is that ?


All ammunition sales will require a background check with DOJ fee of 5 dollars along with a ammunition purchase card that good for 5 years they are still working on the regulations .
In a nut shell no more Internet ammunition purchases for us Californians. Everyone is know is pretty much trying to buy a life time supply before the laws go in to effect. Lot of the shops are at 6.99 a box for 50 lr.


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## GREENCOUNTYPETE

and then everyone will buy ammo buy the case to offset the DOJ fee

how about components ? will you still be able to get them shipped?


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## mustangglp

You will see people leaving the gun show with 4or 5 cases now I suspect people won't be buying a lot at first tell their supplies run low. We have to use lead free for hunting so that make a 22lr almost worthless for hunting so for me I've been buying 22mag.
I reload everything else I have and they haven't went after that yet.


----------



## Texaspredatorhu

mustangglp said:


> You will see people leaving the gun show with 4or 5 cases now I suspect people won't be buying a lot at first tell their supplies run low. We have to use lead free for hunting so that make a 22lr almost worthless for hunting so for me I've been buying 22mag.
> I reload everything else I have and they haven't went after that yet.


They will either make the powder or primers a pain to get.


----------



## mustangglp

Yep it won't make any difference for some one looking to rob a market but for someone that shoots a couple hundred rounds of skeet a weekend it's going to be a big deal.


----------



## Lookin4GoodLife

mustangglp said:


> All ammunition sales will require a background check with DOJ fee of 5 dollars


That blows. The DOJ shouldn't do that. They should tell the state of California, you want a background check, do it yourself. The federal government's got no business being involved in the infringement of your 2nd amendment rights because an individual state decides to crap all over their citizens.


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## Jolly

GREENCOUNTYPETE said:


> 5 cents is a great price in 2017
> the days of 19.95 bricks of 500 are over , that would be .0399 cents a round , this was a good price in 2004 -2008
> 
> depending what you want the new norm even after things have gotten much better for availability is 6-10 cents for most anything
> 
> I got a price on CCI standard velocity by the brick and case the other day for the club , 39.99 a brick or 390 a case and that price came with the but we are down to 4 bricks and our distributor is out right now.


Good deal is site set at 6 cents/round and under. Didn't see anybody less than 5 cents...

http://www.gunbot.net/ammo/rimfire/22lr/


----------



## GREENCOUNTYPETE

Jolly said:


> Good deal is site set at 6 cents/round and under. Didn't see anybody less than 5 cents...
> 
> http://www.gunbot.net/ammo/rimfire/22lr/


but those are not shipped prices

here is the best deal going that I have found http://palmettostatearmory.com/federal-22lr-36gr-copper-plated-hp-525rd-value-pack.ht
buy 5 boxes and the shipping is free 5.998 cents a round and it is actually good squirrel hunting or trap line ammo.


----------



## Lookin4GoodLife

That was my biggest problem with the restrictions when everything was hard to find. Most places you could only buy 2 or 3 boxes. (Which I understood back then) Problem was, if I could buy 50 boxes, or 2 or 3 bricks, it was worth it. If you could only buy 2 or 3 boxes of 50, even if the price was good, time you added shipping, that pushed the price per round out of site. 

I think with our Walmart, the deal is that 22's are showing up enough now that the guys who were standing there waiting for the truck and buying up everything in site are not making enough profit now to make it worth the hassle so that's why there is still some sitting on the shelves. I haven't been out there enough to know when it shows up exactly, or memorized the time I *was* there, so I think it's sitting on the shelves long enough for most average folks to have a go at it now. And I do think they've taken down the "3 boxes a day" sign also. Anytime I buy some, I never take it all, even when there's only 2 boxes sitting there, I leave some for someone else even though I'd like to buy everything I could find just for the heck of it.


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## Lookin4GoodLife

And that Palmetto State link is already invalid.


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## GREENCOUNTYPETE

try that http://palmettostatearmory.com/federal-22lr-36gr-copper-plated-hp-525rd-value-pack.html should be good till tonight.


PSA has been running federal auto match and a few others like the 525 pack of copper plated at good prices and free shipping if you get over 3 or 5 boxes.

however PSA shopping typically takes 7-10 business days it is just the way it is at least for AR parts I haven't ordered any ammo from them.


----------



## ergo

Slowfire practice, I do with .177, rapidfire pistol practice is done with an Airsoft, or cast bullet 9mm reloads. 90% of my AR-15 practice, I do with the .22lr conversion unit, and I reload 223. Prices and availability are much better, now that Don's in office. If I was ever forced to buy ANYTHING from Cheaper than Dirt, I'd be out of the gun and shooting biz. Those people inhale sharply!


----------



## Lookin4GoodLife

Got two boxes of Federal Automatch at Walmart today for $14.84/box. Even after taxes that was $.0489 per round.


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## big rockpile

I got all I need forever from LE friends.

big rockpile


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## oldasrocks

I'm getting low too. I only have 22 bricks left I bought for 10.95 to 14.95 each.


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## mustangglp

As. Of the 15th that's the last day, we can order ammo online out here in California most everyone here is stocking before the deadline.
After the first of the year, you guy outside California will be swimming in ammunition. I am willing to bet California has bought more than the rest of the states combined in the last year.


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## Lookin4GoodLife

mustangglp said:


> I am willing to bet California has bought more than the rest of the states combined in the last year.


I doubt it. I'm sure there are a lot of people there who are aware such as yourself and have tried to stock up before-hand. From all the evidence I see around me, the mass majority of Americans are too busy with their lives and looking at cell phones to be too concerned about the future until something bites them in the rear. Then they sit around saying, "What happened?"


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## JJ Grandits

About the only place I have not seen .22 ammo is walmart. Haven't seen any since the so called shortage started.
Everyone else has it coming out their ears.


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## Lookin4GoodLife

Well JJ, if they haven't already, the lawmakers in NY there will probably mimic California soon, so if you order ammo from the net, you better start ordering a bit at a time too to make sure you're stocked up.


----------



## mustangglp

*California Online Ammo Sales Up by Triple Digits Ahead of “Face-to-Face” Sales Regs*
BY ROBERT FARAGO |

DEC 11, 2017 |

59 COMMENTS


FACEBOOK
TWITTER
LINKEDIN
EMAIL









California voters recently ratified Proposition 63. That particular piece of unconstitutionality requires all Golden State ammo sales be conducted face-to-face, via a licensed ammo vendor. Come January, California customers ordering ammo online will have to pick-up their order at a


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## GREENCOUNTYPETE

way to go CA you just put 100 billion rounds in private storage in your state


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## JJ Grandits

NY ain't far behind. Our NYC legislators are off the wall. Fortunately we have a Republican State Senate and they give us some relief. One proposed law was that you could only buy at any given time the amount of ammunition your firearm could hold. Since I shoot trap with a SxS it would take 13 purchases to come up with enough ammo for a round of trap.
NYC is such a curse to this State. Upstate is their redheaded step child and piggy bank.


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## mustangglp

JJ Grandits said:


> NY ain't far behind. Our NYC legislators are off the wall. Fortunately we have a Republican State Senate and they give us some relief. One proposed law was that you could only buy at any given time the amount of ammunition your firearm could hold. Since I shoot trap with a SxS it would take 13 purchases to come up with enough ammo for a round of trap.
> NYC is such a curse to this State. Upstate is their redheaded step child and piggy bank.


Just show the stupid they are you can buy enough to rob a store but not enough for a range trip.
California is controlled by the Bay area and Los angels urban against rural!


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## GREENCOUNTYPETE

how are CA and NY for reloading components ?

they make re-loaders out of any serious shooters


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## JJ Grandits

GREENCOUNTYPETE said:


> how are CA and NY for reloading components ?
> 
> they make re-loaders out of any serious shooters


 no problem on reloading components. I don't think you can be a serious shooter without reloading.


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## mustangglp

I've bought lots of 2.23 because I have a Mossberg MVP and a Mini 14 that hucks the cases into the next county making a bit hard to find sometimes and of course 22mag and LR.
I've been a reloader 35 years and component prices are appalling but so is the cost of everything. Powder is about 35 a pound.


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## JJ Grandits

Last time I bought powder I was paying $28 a pound. The way I see it I am producing a custom bullet for my rifle for a fraction of what a premium round would cost. Some guys just crank out the reloads like no tomorrow. I take my time. A box of 20 rounds takes me hours to produce, but they are perfect. For my .243 I get 200 loads out of a pound. costs me about $.41-.45 for a round that goes exactly where I want it to and I enjoy making them. But lets face it, you don't reload to save money.

As far as NYS goes, the idiot who are passing our guns laws know absolutely nothing about firearms so the concept of reloading has probably never occurred to them.
We are safe for now.


----------



## GREENCOUNTYPETE

I am right in the same ball park 40-50 cents a round for most rifle rounds that gets a premium load for 1/3 or less the price of something that good loaded but it relies on reusing the brass several times.

223 I am down around 22 cents a round for what would be comparable to 55gr soft point hunting ammo around here that would go for around 85 cents a round 

saving money , no .
better shot , definitely 
I think I spent right around 700 dollars on ammo making that I shot this year but I shot around 4800 rounds with the break down some where about 2000 - 9mm , 1200 - .224 and 200 30cal the remainder 22lr

it sounds like a lot but it comes to just 13.46 a week heck you could hardly go for a drink on that , so I don't.

the trick to becoming a 5000 round a year shooter is to make coffee at home and avoid starbucks and put that 5 dollars in coffee a day in to ammo. 1300.00 dollars would go a long way towards ammo.


----------



## Lookin4GoodLife

JJ Grandits said:


> NYC is such a curse to this State. Upstate is their redheaded step child and piggy bank.


Trust me, even Georgia is not much different. Atlanta is our tail wagging the dog and flushing billions down the drain. I guess it's pretty much like that in every state.  I guess the good news is, when it all hits the fans the big cities will implode and all those people will end each other before whatever's left wanders out into our neck of the woods to become fodder.


----------



## Lookin4GoodLife

mustangglp said:


> I've bought lots of 2.23 because I have a Mossberg MVP and a Mini 14 that hucks the cases


Not to be off topic, but how do you like that MVP Mustang? I *really* like the looks of that rifle, but the reviews are very mixed. I can't believe more manufacturers don't adopt the "use a standard magazine" approach. With the price of all the proprietary magazines, I guess it's the old "give away the razor to sell the blades" mentality.


----------



## Lookin4GoodLife

GREENCOUNTYPETE said:


> it sounds like a lot but it comes to just 13.46 a week heck you could hardly go for a drink on that , so I don't.


When I wanted to get into RC airplanes (something I had wanted to do since I was a kid and couldn't afford it), I thought *man* that's high. When you think about it though, any "hobby" probably costs you $500-$1000 to get into. After that, they're pretty much all the same. $20 here, $100 there, $30 here, etc.... Sure, you can go wild and spend as much as you want to, but you're absolutely right..... you cut out a couple vices and you can afford to do pretty much anything you want to a little at a time.


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## Chuck R.

Reloading is still relatively affordable as long as you buy in bulk.

It's especially affordable for the match grade rounds or the premium hunting loads. I even make out well with my 9mm match loads because I shoot 147s exclusively, and you can't generally get them in bulk at a decent price for loaded rounds. 

I normally will get primers 10-20K at a time and mainstay powders only in 8lb kegs. For the smaller stuff, the guys I shoot matches with go in on group buys to split the shipping and hazmat. 

Bullets the same way, for the handgun rounds I get on mailing lists to take advantage of the sales. It sucks sometimes springing for 4-5000 bullets at a time, but the savings add up in the long run. Pretty much the only bullets I suck it up on are the Berger match grade stuff as they don't go on sale often. For those I hit the "Holiday" sales when the dealers offer the 10-20% and free shipping type deals. 

I'm right at 20K a year in pistol, and a little over 5K a year in rifle, don't bother adding up the .22LR. There's just no way I could afford it without reloading. 

Chuck


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## mustangglp

Lookin4GoodLife said:


> Not to be off topic, but how do you like that MVP Mustang? I *really* like the looks of that rifle, but the reviews are very mixed. I can't believe more manufacturers don't adopt the "use a standard magazine" approach. With the price of all the proprietary magazines, I guess it's the old "give away the razor to sell the blades" mentality.


I like it its the varmint model with a 6x24 scope I bought to be a shooter in California we are required to use lead-free so the faster twist works better for that then my tried and true tack driver model 700 in 22.250 with a one in 14.
I mainly use it for shooting California ground squirrels out about 300 yards.
With 35 grain nxts with benchmark powder its good for 3/4 groups at about 4000 feet per second
Hoping for 1/2 with more tinkering the amazing thing to me is how good it shoots cheap 25 cents a round wolf polyporfomance 62-grain hp dam near in the same spot as the 35 grains at least at a 100 yards hoping to test them out to







200 off the bench soon.
My one gripe would be the trigger compared to my old pre lawsuit rifles it pretty heavy even at the lightest setting .


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## GREENCOUNTYPETE

130 dollars will fix the trigger https://www.timneytriggers.com/shop/Mossberg-LBA-Short-Action-P55.aspx


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## mustangglp

A 2 pounder would be nice just need to pay off the credit cards from trying to buy a lifetime supply of ammo in the last year.


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## tc556guy

Lookin4GoodLife said:


> Well JJ, if they haven't already, the lawmakers in NY there will probably mimic California soon, so if you order ammo from the net, you better start ordering a bit at a time too to make sure you're stocked up.


NY beat CA to the punch. Mail order ammo here was banned under the SAFE act


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## JJ Grandits

Keep in mind that the dictatorial leader of the Great Socialist State Of New York, Mario Cuomo, is hoping for a Presidential run


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## Texaspredatorhu

mustangglp said:


> A 2 pounder would be nice just need to pay off the credit cards from trying to buy a lifetime supply of ammo in the last year.


Better buy that trigger sooner than later. Knowing our luck it’ll get banned as a rate increasing device!


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## GREENCOUNTYPETE

I am in the market for a new 308 

I was really looking for a bolt gun that 
had a threaded barrel , ran on reasonably priced magazines Ideally 5s and 10s , a laminit stock so that if I needed to glass bed it I could and a decent trigger or way to get a decent trigger.

I really hadn't though much about the Mossberg but was coming short of what I had ben thinking I wanted and looking at a custom build or modifying what was available , now I have to go try one and see how it feels it shounds like it has most everything I was looking for.


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## mustangglp

Haven't glass beaded the stock on the MVP all my other bolt action centerfire are.
I think the MVP patrol in 308 would make a handy hog or deer rifle. Most of the reviews I read thought the trigger was great so I probably had to great of expectations I was hoping for the same trigger as my model 52 C or early 70s vintage 700

Ammunition site AmmoMan.com compared year-over-year purchases by California customers.

Eric Schepps of AmmoMan.com said, “California has been consistently at the top of our sales, but the biggest difference is that in 2014, about one in 10 packages was going to California. Last year, it was jabout one in every five packages. Today, every other package we ship is going to a California ZIP code.”

https://www.ocregister.com/2017/12/...ying-a-lot-of-ammunition-this-holiday-season/


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## tc556guy

JJ Grandits said:


> Keep in mind that the dictatorial leader of the Great Socialist State Of New York, Mario Cuomo, is hoping for a Presidential run


Mario is dead, its his inbred son Andrew who is Governor and wants to be Supreme Leader over all of us


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## JJ Grandits

tc556guy said:


> Mario is dead, its his inbred son Andrew who is Governor and wants to be Supreme Leader over all of us


You're right. 

Don't know how I made that mistake.

Lets just say I suffered through a very long and extremely hard day.

Messing up the name of our supreme leader is probably a felony here.


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## Lookin4GoodLife

tc556guy said:


> NY beat CA to the punch. Mail order ammo here was banned under the SAFE act


Oh well, there ya go. I think we need a voting provision to repeal laws in this country. Say if you can get 10,000 signatures, or 100,000 signatures or whatever would work on a petition to repeal a law, then it has to be on the next available ballot to be voted on for repeal. Maybe one number for a state law and of course a higher number for a federal law. The codes at every level of government in this country have grown so large and unwieldy, you don't even know you're breaking a law half the time. The left passes one group of laws when they're in power, the right passes another group of laws when they're in power, various pieces get changed from time to time, etc, etc. Nothing but a big mess.  They also need to put a stop to 1,000 page bills with 15 different unrelated issues in there so politicians can muddy up the waters with a bill that's "good for the people" that everyone will vote for and "Oh, by the way, on page 847 in 8 point type down at the bottom of the page, we're going to turn you into a felon for not using turn signals", etc that gets passed in a midnight session. SMDH..... I'm so sick of politicians on both sides at every level.  Merry Christmas yall!


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## Lookin4GoodLife

Yeah, that MVP Patrol is the one that gets me hot and bothered. If I ever need a hog rifle around here though, my beater WASR or NPap AK's are good toss around guns with 30 round magazines. It would be *rare* when I'd ever have more than a 25-50 yard shot with all the thick brush here, so iron sights with an old "trusty, dusty" will suffice.  The hogs haven't reached my neck of the woods yet, but I suspect it's just a matter of time. When they do, I'll probably mount scabbards on my tractor and such.


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## GREENCOUNTYPETE

well I went down to my local shop around lunch time today , he had an MVP predator green laminate stock 18 or 20 inch non threaded barrel fluted barrel

I have to admit the bolt smoothness isn't what I would have liked I had sold my 1903A3 because after an hour with the smith and trying a bunch if options I just couldn't fine a good way to put an optic on it the way I wanted.
I really liked the 1903A3 sporter because it had a butter smooth bolt. but I didn't need another iron sight only gun even though it shot well with the irons.

I knew I wanted to replace it with a 308 so that I could get good brass easy and cheap but also really wanted to have a threaded barrel for muzzle device or suppressor 

I have a a feeling the mvp will smooth out with use and lube and it wan't much different than the remingtion or savage and I know they smooth out with time and lube.

the mag fit very tight no wabble. 

So I ordered a Mossberg MVP Varmint 308 with the 24 inch fluted and threaded barrel 
the green Laminate stock with pistol grip and high comb 648 out the door with tax.

it's sort of funny I ended up with my favorite bird gun being a M500A 12ga , my favorite 22 is a Mossberg 44US-D
and now we will see if it becomes my favorite center fire bolt action.

none of them were my first thought on what to get the 12ga and the 22 just felt right


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## mustangglp

I doubt the bolt will ever be a smooth as a pre 64 Winchester or old Remington mine did smooth up with some trifow and more than acceptable.
I would like to add a mag release extender to mine.


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## Lookin4GoodLife

Awesome Pete! Good Christmas present for yourself.  The bolt on my Ruger American 308 wasn't real smooth either, but it's amazing how much better it is after the first hundred rounds. Same with my old Mosin Nagant. LOL Either that thing had a half pound of cosmoline in it that I couldn't get out with cleaning, or it had never been fired because you basically had to beat on it to cycle it. Now, I wouldn't call it "silky smooth" by any means, but it's about as smooth as any "average" new gun you'd buy today.


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## Lookin4GoodLife

(dupe) Nope, just 1.


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## JJ Grandits

I can't believe it! Went to Walmart the other day and actually saw .22 ammo on the shelf!
locally it has been at least three years since that happened.


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## GREENCOUNTYPETE

yup with little panic buying things are coming back in stock everywhere.

NY safe act probably sold more ammo in 1 than sells in 10 years normally , people now have billions of rounds stock piled , I am sure that isn't what Albany was thinking when they singed that.

Ditto on California maybe trillions of rounds now stock piled.

and since more than half the nations supply isn't flowing onto one of those anti gun states. now the rest of us can finally get some ammo off the shelf.

but hey if you don't have a life time supply now is the time 2020 will be here before you know it.


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## tc556guy

GREENCOUNTYPETE said:


> yup with little panic buying things are coming back in stock everywhere.
> 
> NY safe act probably sold more ammo in 1 than sells in 10 years normally , people now have billions of rounds stock piled , I am sure that isn't what Albany was thinking when they singed that.
> 
> Ditto on California maybe trillions of rounds now stock piled.
> 
> and since more than half the nations supply isn't flowing onto one of those anti gun states. now the rest of us can finally get some ammo off the shelf.
> 
> but hey if you don't have a life time supply now is the time 2020 will be here before you know it.


The SAFE act ammo controls kicked in years ago.
The ammo availability didn't improve until Trumps election. Years after NYers were no longer supposed to have ammo drop shipped straight to their doorstep.


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## GREENCOUNTYPETE

the point of this multi year thread is supply and demand drive availability and it may take years for a fear buying episode to actually return to normal. 

so for a time line 
Aug of 2008 last time we really saw full shelves 
hey the Rep party was running Mittens 
Nov 2008 Bo takes the white house 
every time BO talks more guns and ammo sell 
Nov of 2012 Bo stays in the white house
Dec 2012 sandy hook you thought an election could being on fear buying this was the worst fear buying ever seen in the USA 22lr shortage that lasted many years.
2013 NY safe act enacted 
2014 internet sales to NY end 
2015-2016 Hillary is running 
Nov 2016 trump takes the white house
Feb 2017 we start to see some ammo on the shelves it is making a slow come back
May 2017 prop 63 is introduced and signed July 1 2017 
buying frenzy till Jan 1 2018 

what do you know we are starting to see nearly 2008 shelves again and it is mid 2018 just a mere decade later .

on the up side the AR-15 and it's variants are everywhere clearly making it the most popular rifle in the USA and many trillions of rounds are in private ownership we may have more round in private hands than ever before in history.


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## tc556guy

I can't speak for anyone else's experiences, but as an FFL, while I am sure that Obama initially being elected did drive some gun and ammo sales, none of that compared to the acute shortages after Sandy Hook.
I'm also not convinced that at least some of the post- Sandy Hook shortages wasn't artificially induced, and I don't mean the neckbeard hoarders standing in line at WalMart



GREENCOUNTYPETE said:


> the point of this multi year thread is supply and demand drive availability and it may take years for a fear buying episode to actually return to normal.
> 
> so for a time line
> Aug of 2008 last time we really saw full shelves
> hey the Rep party was running Mittens
> Nov 2008 Bo takes the white house
> every time BO talks more guns and ammo sell
> Nov of 2012 Bo stays in the white house
> Dec 2012 sandy hook you thought an election could being on fear buying this was the worst fear buying ever seen in the USA 22lr shortage that lasted many years.
> 2013 NY safe act enacted
> 2014 internet sales to NY end
> 2015-2016 Hillary is running
> Nov 2016 trump takes the white house
> Feb 2017 we start to see some ammo on the shelves it is making a slow come back
> May 2017 prop 63 is introduced and signed July 1 2017
> buying frenzy till Jan 1 2018
> 
> what do you know we are starting to see nearly 2008 shelves again and it is mid 2018 just a mere decade later .


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## GREENCOUNTYPETE

my local ffl kept ammo much better than walmart or farm store , after sandy hook farm and fleet hadn't seen 22lr for so long that they removed the shelf that used to be 10 feet of 22 ammo

the just put that shelf back up recently.

when they did have a small lot they would have it at the tire desk next to sporting goods and you had to ask for it.


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## JJ Grandits

Don't know how bad it was in anyone elses area but around here the shortage of .22 ammo was incredible. My wife had to stand in line for an hour one Christmas to buy me 100rds. of .22lr. Other places limited you to a box of 50 and that was only if you made another purchase. Now that the crunch is over myself, son and nephew are burning them up again but I make sure now that for whatever we shoot I replace it with twice as much.


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## ergo

yep, no reason to not just buy 10,000 rds of whatever .22lr ammo that works for you, on sale, getting free shipping over a certain amount of it, and just cycle it thru as you would food, keeping it fresh. Retail cost of 50 rds of .22lr in 1970 was 75c. Inflation has made most things 8x as expensive as they were in 1970. So it should cost 12c each, especially since we quit smelting lead in the US. Being able to buy it for 6c each is an incredible bargain. If you shoot it, you can't lose at that price, so every spare dollar you have should be saved and used to bullk buy .22lr, until you've got a lifetime supply of it. You'll always be able to sell it for more than you paid for it.


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