# when to quit



## chewie (Jun 9, 2008)

was playing with punkin, my 4month old filly and thought i'd get her into the trailer. this filly has followed me into the house, barn, tack room, anywhere. so the trailer won't be an issue, right? oh.my. she REFUSED. big time. no way no how. she reared, she flew backwards, she fought and dug in. 

so i worked, got a bit less friendly, pushed, pulled, ..... finally had to ask dh to come out and help just push her in as by now, i figure if i give in, she'll NEVER load. 

so when do you quit? this was NOT the way i wanted this to go. way too rough and push/forced. but yet quitting didn't seem good either. should I have just quit and tried a new tactic tomorrow? she banged her leg getting in, which split open the deep cut she already has there. :grit:

i am very unhappy with myself for this whole thing. i didn't loose my temper or anything but i did not want to make it into a battle. :badmood:
i know it can't always go sweet and simple but this went too far, but by the time it was already too far, do you let it go or just finish???


----------



## Doug Hodges (Jul 22, 2013)

Yes. You should have quit and tried another day.


----------



## chewie (Jun 9, 2008)

i feel horrible


----------



## cathleenc (Aug 16, 2007)

Tomorrow is a new day. New sun will rise, new opportunities to do things better. It'll be okay. We all learn, both the filly and you and all of us reading this. Peace to you.


----------



## Minelson (Oct 16, 2007)

It's ok Chewie. I know what you mean about not letting them get away with it and you did win. When Spencer was having problems with getting in the trailer I gave up and the person who sold him to me came over and made him do circles and get all worn out and finally got him in. He was soaking wet with sweat...
How did the filly act when she was finally in the trailer? Was she scared or just being a butthead?
Don't beat yourself up. Just keep trying! ((((hugs))))


----------



## CraterCove (Jan 24, 2011)

Horses are designed to freak out, run and assess from a distance. It's just their nature to act spooked in a new situation. 

I really live by the words slow is fast with horses. Also, horses don't really hold grudges it will be alright. It's really just about sacking them out when it comes to trailers or anything they decide is going to eat them alive, slow and steady, calm and assertive!

I'm sure others here will be able to give you some good pointers to helping you with getting your filly to load with good manners.


----------



## Elsbet (Apr 2, 2009)

You might try "making work" in the trailer for yourself. She'll see you going in and out and not dying.
My Shetland mare does NOT load onto a trailer well. The donkey has to be picked up and carried into it. We don't have one of our own to let them check it out all day every day, so it is a struggle. When they do get loaded and then unloaded, though, they get treated and loved on. The mare has a terrible time, gets very, very sweaty, and we give her a thorough grooming after, and she totally forgets it under the brush. The donkey won't load... but he's not freaked out by it either, lol. He just likes being lugged around, I think. 
Anyway, Daisy gets better each time. It can be a process.


----------



## chewie (Jun 9, 2008)

as soon as we finally got her in, she was instantly ok with it. stood there quietly for a good long time, she licked me and i rubbed her fav. spot, all was instantly fine again. took a tiny bit of coaxing to get her back out but it went very simple and no fuss.

that's the part i just struggle with--if you are getting into things and they start going too 'heated', does stopping at that point make the animal win?? that has been my experience.  but she is a baby! i am so mad at myself. 

i took her back to the barn and hosed her cut again, lead her, petting her, she was all fine and happy. i led her back to the trailer, opened it and instead of even asking her to try, i just sat on the end and pet her. she was happy and content. i had her take some steps around the back, just moving one way and then back, simple things she can do. she was calm and content. so I hope this last bit helped some, it didnt cause her an ounce of stress. just let her sniff and stand and i rubbed her. she showed no fear or refusal.

then we went to her pen. let her go. she stood and played with me. she seems perfectly fine and not a bit upset in the least. myself, i am feeling like dirt. thinking thru it, there was a point at the beginning i should've just stopped and stood with her, and carried on another day. i've taught lots of horses to load, nicely without issue or fights. just hate that it went too far with her. shame on me.


----------



## Elsbet (Apr 2, 2009)

Don't beat yourself up. ((hugs)) I doubt she is ruined for life, and as sad as you sound about the cut re-opening, I am MORE than willing to bet that she is getting excellent care for the wound. Things happen, we all do things we regret. You can't change what happened, you just move on and keep learning together. <3


----------



## jennigrey (Jan 27, 2005)

The biggest part of good horsemanship is not asking for something unless you're pretty sure you're going to get it. Setting yourself and the horse up for success. If you're going to ask for something and you aren't sure whether or not you'll get it, have a plan for what you will do if you don't get it. You can ask in a different way or ask for something different. If all else fails, ask for something you KNOW you'll get - that way you can at least end on a positive note. :hair


----------



## Doug Hodges (Jul 22, 2013)

chewie said:


> i feel horrible


No need to feel horrible. I have a mare that I had to lead in circles to load her. I kept working with her. I finally figured out if I had someone start to shut the gate, it would freak her out a little and she would step into the trailer. I would give her a treat or a little grain each time I got her in the trailer. Now she loads right up Abd backs out with no problems. 

God bless. I've been there with stubborn animals. One more quick example. I decided to worm my horses today. One mare was easy and I stuck it right in her mouth and squeezed. The other mare kept waking circles around me just out of range to grab her. I started petting the otter horse and completely ignoring her and she walked up to me. I instantly grabbed her halter and began petting her. I out the wormer in her mouth and squeezed. She made a face and swallowed it. Patience is key. If I feel I'm losing patience, I guit what I'm doing and do something else so we will both lose our stress.


----------



## Teej (Jan 14, 2012)

I so understand your feelings Chewie. Two days ago I decided I'd better have a loading lesson with Cutter since it had been a while. 4 horse slant load and I had all but the front divider open. Put a pan of feed on the floor (I am not above bribing them in) and he walked right in. Of course I couldn't be happy with that so I bent down to get the feed pan in order to put it up in the feeder and when he raised his head he conked it on the open divider. He backed out and then I couldn't get him back in. I was so mad at myself for not being more careful.

Yesterday was farrier day so I didn't work with him on loading. Today we had success. He still has some work to do because I had to use his mentor in order to get him in but that's how he learned in the first place so a couple of more lessons with JC and then he'll have to start going in by himself again. 

I know I'm rambling but I have to share the funny part. JC is old and stiff and while he can pick up his back feet it's painful for him so I don't like to load him (no ramp on the trailer). I open all the dividers and the side escape door. Tied JC on the outside and placed a pan of feed for him at the escape door so Cutter could see JC's head in there and that was enough to fool him into thinking JC was in the trailer.LOL


----------



## SeaGoat (Aug 17, 2012)

Would putting the trailer in the field and putting hay/feed in it not help introduce it better?
I heard of someone doing this with hogs so when it came time to haul them to slaughter they didnt have to fight them.. Just put the feed in and away they went


----------



## sidepasser (May 10, 2002)

That is how I trained our babies to load, just put the feed in and left the trailer in the paddock. Pretty soon, they got the idea and would go in without any feed as it was cooler in trailer out of the sun. 

I don't own a horse that won't load, but have had one that would load perfect 20 times and out of the blue would decide not to load. Just would not get in, those are the ones that drive me up the wall..lol.. same trailer, same horse, no load..

got a sandwich out of the lunch box and sat in my folding chair and read a book..pretty soon I hear a hoof on the trailer floor, I kept sitting and reading, before long I hear all the hooves on the the trailer floor - then a lot of stomping..

"oh you ready to go now?"...toss hay and off we go. That heifer would do that at least once during every show season until I sold her. Makes a person learn a lot of patience. lol..

I don't fight with them, I let them figure it out and use the same "load up" term every time. I think your filly will be ok, I figure if they make one step in the right direction, I've done good for the day and will quit. Next time see if I get two steps..before long the horse will be like a dog that likes to ride and jump in.


----------



## GrannyCarol (Mar 23, 2005)

When I was a kid, our neighbors had a young one. They put the trailer in her paddock and fed her in it. She loaded without any qualms, it was a happy space for her. Since you went back and she wasn't upset about it, I wouldn't worry about what you did, just use that to think about how you might do it differently next time. Getting angry at yourself won't calm you to deal with today at all, it works against what you really want to do with your horse!


----------



## Work horse (Apr 7, 2012)

jennigrey said:


> The biggest part of good horsemanship is not asking for something unless you're pretty sure you're going to get it. Setting yourself and the horse up for success. If you're going to ask for something and you aren't sure whether or not you'll get it, have a plan for what you will do if you don't get it. You can ask in a different way or ask for something different. If all else fails, ask for something you KNOW you'll get - that way you can at least end on a positive note. :hair


Exactly this. If it looks like getting ON the trailer isn't going to happen, it may be better to just be happy with a quiet walk up to the trailer and then standing quietly in front. Or some basic ground work in front of the trailer door (i.e. walk, stop, turn, back). At least then, you can end on a good note.


----------



## chewie (Jun 9, 2008)

i was pretty sure she would get in--this filly follows me into the tack room, and even into the house, so i figured the trailer would be nothing! that's the start of the problem--i ASSUMED. i didn't look, listen and watch. big mistake.

that point where she didn't want to budge, just then i should've done as work horse says, did some stuff around the trailer, let her relax and make the trailer no big deal. but by the time i'd getting in so deep, i figure if you don't finish, that's going to be double the battle next try. so now, i'll just lead her to it, sit, play, etc. i usually do bring some snacks along too, so once in, they get a bonus. 

i do not have any hard to load horses, and always (usually?!) teach them quietly and never fight. how this got to be a battle is not cool on my part. thanks for the support, i would never try to cause harm or stress in my ponies!


----------



## jennigrey (Jan 27, 2005)

If you don't have a trailer to take your time desensitizing the horse to, it can make loading a bit of a challenge, for sure. But loading is really just leading with an interesting obstacle thrown in. So work on leading.

One good technique for teaching a horse to load in any vehicle - whether or not you have a trailer of your own - consists of two stages: 

First, first make sure the horse knows a "go" sound. Whatever sound you use to tell a horse to go; a kiss, cluck, smooch, whatever you habitually use. Just be consistent with your chosen sound. Use the "go" sound any time you begin leading the horse and any time you want the horse to move.

Second, make sure that the horse is leading well through and over obstacles. Invent as many weird and crazy situations as you can and teach the horse to follow you through them bravely and with trust. Start with really easy obstacles first - ones you KNOW that she will lead into/through. Let's say the tack room. As you reach the critical point - the doorway - make your "go" sound.

As you invent/build new obstacles with more and more challenging situations, always lead the horse with INTENT. Never stop and look back at the horse to see if it will follow because the answer will too often be "no". Don't make it a question. Forge confidently ahead; act as though you KNOW WITH ALL YOUR HEART that the horse will follow you through FIRE. As you approach the critical point of each obstacle (the point where the horse is most likely to hesitate, which will vary according to the particular obstacle), make your "go" noise. This reassures the horse that she is supposed to keep following you through the new obstacle.

If you feel the horse balk, STOP IMMEDIATELY - never ever pull on the lead. Turn back to face the horse and back her briskly a good 15 feet or more. Then make her work a little more. What you do to make her work will depend on what she has been taught to do. Just make sure that whatever you ask her to do is something that you know she will do. If all she knows how to do is go in circles and back up, then do that some more. 

Then turn and lead her off toward the obstacle again. Make your "go" noise as you approach the critical point. If the horse balks again, back her 20 feet and make her work longer than the previous time. Lather, rinse, repeat but always calmly. Keep your frustration tamped down into a tiny corner of your gut. It is not personal, it is just the way of the world. If you absolutely cannot get the horse to go through that obstacle after four or five iterations of this, go do a different, easier one. Even if it is just into the tack room.

Alter the obstacle in some manner to make it easier and different before you attempt it again.

Do not go into any training scenario when you are pressed for time. I have worked horses in the pouring rain, wearing short sleeves and Crocs, while my dinner got cold on the table because I chose the wrong moment to ask for the wrong thing and had to take the time to make sure I didn't teach the wrong lesson.


----------



## jennigrey (Jan 27, 2005)

Another thing you can try if a horse refuses an obstacle is to see if you can back her through it, assuming it's an obstacle that can be safely backed through.

Teach her to step up onto things but make sure those things are stable and can support her adequately.


----------



## paintpony (Jan 5, 2013)

Baby needs to learn the sending game and the squeeze game before trying to load into a trailer. Check out Clinton Anderson's videos. It isn't the trailer that is the problem, it's that baby doesn't understand what is expected.


----------



## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

Be careful with all the "games" and sending here and there, Chewie. Good old fashioned horse sense is needed here (pun intended).


----------



## Lisa in WA (Oct 11, 2004)

When we got Windsong from SFM, she had never been in a trailer in her life (at 5). SFM had us drop off the trailer while we went to visit family members and she fed her in it for a week. When we picked her up and loaded her, she went in like a lamb and trailered all the way from Kentucky to Idaho, loading and unloading along the way.


----------



## chewie (Jun 9, 2008)

after more thinking on this today, and the idea of feeding in it, duh! i have been needing a way to separate punkin from the yearling i have her penned with, for feeding grain/pellets. yearling eats faster, and punkin has that cut and hubs is getting her some powder stuff to help her at the vets today, so esp she needs to have her feed to herself. i'm going to park the trailer in/next to the pen and feed one or the other in it, or alternate! it will solve 2 issues at once. 

i've always just went slow and easy and got them into a trailer as part of everyday messing with them. i'm sure that would've been fine and would still but this will have double use! thanks for the help


----------



## wr (Aug 10, 2003)

chewie, when I'm working with babies, I keep the lessons short and my expectations low, much like asking a 3 year old to clean their room. 

Little guys have short attention spans and short memories so they really don't equate you walking away from a trailer lesson before you snap as them winning or you losing but if you're going to try for a single task, try breaking it down into individual steps over days. If you're working on leading, you ask for a few steps today and a few more tomorrow. If you're working on picking up feet, you ask for a quick lift today, lift and hold for a second tomorrow and extend the time period but don't extend the lesson because sooner or later, they get frustrated. 

Like toddlers, foals can have good days and bad days and sometimes on a bad day, it's best to ask them for something you know they can handle, end on a good note, brush them, walk away and call it a good day. 

I do promise you that one icky trailer lesson will not leave the foal emotionally scarred for life and you aren't a big meanie.


----------



## chewie (Jun 9, 2008)

a huge thanks. 

wr--that is exactly my 'normal' procedure, with about any age. simple steps to build on daily. 

today went tons better. led her up to it which took a bit of coaxing but after we got to it, all was just fine. she was calm and quiet and easy going. i sat on the end, she sniffed. i went inside, she put one front on the floor but that was all. and that is all i asked of her and told her how good girl she is. tomorrow i'll do it again. and the next day.....

quiet and simple and just sort of pecking away 'softly' is how i usually deal with all horses. in the end, i wind up with some of the most quiet, soft and trusting partners. that is my goal.


----------



## dizzy (Jun 25, 2013)

chewie, I feel for you. My girl is a rescue-neglect case. To the best of my knowledge, the first time she was ever trailered in her life was when the horses were seized. The horses were so weak and skinny that they basically just shoved them in the trailers. When I picked her up, I wasn't even given the chance to work w/her a bit to see if she'd load. They tranqed her, then shoved her in. So, the first time she was trailered, she was taken away from everything she knew. The 2nd time, she was taken away from her herd. It took a long time for me to even get her to load on the trailer and when I did, she was shaking like a leaf.

Once I got her loading and started to go places for more than just a ride, she would hardly eat. I know I took her to one weekend event where she just barely ate and lost a ton of weight over the weekend. I had people more or less accusing me of neglecting my horse, asking what I was feeding her, etc. 

She still has her moments, especially if we haven't gone anywhere for awhile. But, once she's in, she's fine. And she eats fine when we go away. 

Like someone else has said, end on a positive note. If you're having trouble reaching your goal, change it. The horse doesn't know what your goal is, so in their mind, you've done what you planned on doing. At that age, as someone else said, keep it short. Remember, she's only a baby, so don't try too much at one time. You'll get there.


----------



## Hexe (Mar 8, 2007)

Don't feel bad, everybody's been there at one time, myself included. I can't count the times when I messed something up with dogs, horses, cows, husband, etc. and later thought that I should have quit while I was ahead!
All those mistakes taught me that you can ALWAYS fix them later. Unless of course you killed the animal - and sometimes I seriously thought about that too...:heh:


----------



## goodhors (Sep 6, 2011)

If you leave the trailer in with the horse to teach "self-loading, then BLOCK the trailer in several places so it can NOT MOVE. This means chock the wheels, both front and back. Put SOLID blocks under the rear end, so it doesn't drop under the weight of a horse. Same with the front end, so it doesn't sink, should the horse walk forward to the nose area.

I would NOT recommend leaving the truck in the pasture or paddock with the equine, you are asking for damage. Could be the truck, could be the equine getting cut on the truck.

Doors need to be TIED open, not allowed to swing in the wind.

Best set-up I saw for horse to go eat from hitched up trailer, was backing trailer into paddock, then gates between trailer body front and truck, so horse couldn't get in trouble. Gates were secured to the front area of trailer body, no pinch points under a gooseneck or at the trailer hitch to jump over. Horse, even small ones, had no access to that little hitch area of danger. Cattle panels could work as big gates to keep horse out of that area.

Put mats down, with dry sawdust or shavings on the floor to prevent slipping as she climbs into trailer. Straw on the floor is VERY slippery, NOT a good trailer bedding. I have seen and know of horses who went down on straw in the trailer. NOT a good thing at all. Wet mats can be slippery, but the shavings or sawdust help absorb the wet, give a better grip on those mats. Horse peeing in the trailer is a GOOD thing, shows they are comfortable inside, and you NEED them willing to urinate in the trailer on long trips to prevent kidney problems/


----------



## jennigrey (Jan 27, 2005)

My team of mares hates to pee in the van while we're moving. They go when I shut off the ignition at the gas station or when we are waiting in line to get on the ferry. Sometimes while we're on the ferry. The two mares have sympathetic bladders - when one goes, the other has to as well. On a thirsty day, that can be as much as 6 gallons of horse urine running out of the deck of the van. :teehee: The ferry dock workers hate us.


----------



## jennigrey (Jan 27, 2005)

You should see some of the rigs that the teams come slithering out of at the field and plowing meets. The home-built truck/trailer/van combinations and the rickety ramp contraptions. All driving horses have to be pretty trusting of their teamster... couple that with the laid-back personality of a draft horse and you've got horses that are just about climbing a ladder to crawl into a bunk-bed because their teamster says to do it. "Okay, boss..."


----------



## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

dizzy said:


> chewie, I feel for you. My girl is a rescue-neglect case. To the best of my knowledge, the first time she was ever trailered in her life was when the horses were seized. The horses were so weak and skinny that they basically just shoved them in the trailers. When I picked her up, I wasn't even given the chance to work w/her a bit to see if she'd load. They tranqed her, then shoved her in. So, the first time she was trailered, she was taken away from everything she knew. The 2nd time, she was taken away from her herd. It took a long time for me to even get her to load on the trailer and when I did, she was shaking like a leaf.
> 
> Once I got her loading and started to go places for more than just a ride, she would hardly eat. I know I took her to one weekend event where she just barely ate and lost a ton of weight over the weekend. I had people more or less accusing me of neglecting my horse, asking what I was feeding her, etc.
> 
> ...


One of my horses is the same kind of rescue. First time in a trailer was when she was rescued at around 1 year old. second time was when she came to me. Third time was when she had to go the the Vets for an injury. She loaded fine because by that time she trusted us completely because she knew we would feed her and never hurt her.


----------



## dizzy (Jun 25, 2013)

She'd follow me every place else-just not onto the trailer! She tried to climb over a pile of hay that almost reached the barn roof once because she thought that's what I wanted!


----------



## chewie (Jun 9, 2008)

and tonight my little baby hopped in like my old gelding. a little grain and cold rain does wonders! she happliy ate her supper whilst i sat on the floor smiling. having this baby is such a grand thing for me right now. i so enjoy her. and, she is a good girl, eats all the powder medicine too. (altho it smells so good I am tempted to take a taste!) now to make that cut heal asap.

so, my lesson in all this is a)don't assume, and be ready for surprises (not getting in at first) b)pay more attention, and stop, change or whatever needed. 

and another little thing i've done--took off my gloves. usually i wear leather gloves, but i noticed lately if i dont' wear them, my touch is nicer. must stay soft and quiet with my hands un-gloved or they'll pay for it!! not to mention how wonderful it is to stroke my little baby's coat with bare hands. so smooth n soft. i hug her for the longest time, rubbing her belly, and she loves it. 

it seems as if hubs and dd have been gone much more than usual, and somehow after loosing my chey, being alone this much is, well, lonely. my horses are getting to be immensely important, more than they've ever been before. sorry for rambling, i just thought you here would understand.


----------



## Minelson (Oct 16, 2007)

Chewie...I swear that filly is a gift from God for you. It brings tears to my eyes hearing of the joy and companionship she is brings. You are getting just what you needed to help you through this difficult time and she got YOU!!!   It's just so great all around


----------

