# ???, for those planning retirement.



## Micheal

Read an article about questions to be answered by those that are fortunate enough to choose when they retire.... Listed:
1. Do I have enough money?
2. What's the impact of working another year or two?
3. When should I claim SS?
4 When is my spouse planning to retire?
5. Where will I get health insurance?

Those were compiled from "The Society of Actuaries" May 2017.

Personally of those not already retired and are planning to; read the post "As the budget tightens, what cuts have you made?" Then revisit the questions above..... you'll find reality bites!


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## Cabin Fever

Do you have a link to the article?


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## dmm1976

Those are all valid questions. We have already decided how much a month we need to live comfortably and have our retirement accounts adjusted accordingly. Our house will be paid off before we retire and I'm hoping we can start adding to an HSA. We still assume part of our income will be SS. But it would be prudent to have a back up plan. 

We also are starting to plan for the future by figuring out what improvements we will have to make in the future to the property so we can "age in place". As long as possible before we end up in the nursing home.

It's never to early to start thinking about what will you want your quality of life to be in your final years. I don't want to have to choose between food and medicine and I want to be able to do things for my kids and grandkids that my parents have been able to do for us.


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## Micheal

Cabin Fever said:


> Do you have a link to the article?


No, I don't....
I read the article via AAII (American Assoc of Individual Investors) although the article's source is " Big Question: When should I retire?" Society of Actuaries, May 2017. 
You may be able to find the article on their web site...... www.soa.org


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## ladytoysdream

I did a search for *when should I retire*
I am using windows explorer for my browser and I use google.
Your search may bring up different results.

Part way down the google search page is a PDF file on the www.soa.org site.
Which I believe might be the article Micheal is posting about.
Or real close to it. Similar wording in the article.

There is also a good post on the Dave Ramsey website about retirement.
Again, the results from my google search. *When should I retire*

--------------------------------------------------


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## anniew

It's not so much rocket science to set yourself up for retirement, as it is having the will power to forego SOME of the wants vs. needs and squirrel money away.

Assuming someone has a job, or if need be two jobs, the earlier savings begin, the better. Although interest rates are negligible right now, it's still a good idea to start accumulating money, or maybe investing it somewhere ??? where the interest on principle will be better....or invest in a second building that can give you rental income indefinitely.

Most people count on social security, but it wasn't made to be a full retirement income...so plan accordingly with a backup plan if social security disappears.

And go into retirement with NO, that's NO debt, nor use credit cards after retirement to purchase things. It's that slippery slope that's always referred to...credit costs money.

Also, don't count on inheritance, which can sometimes bite you when you find out the gifter was not as generous as you expected, or they suffered extreme expenses near the end of their lives and had to use the money themselves. Or, as I can attest to, at the last minute, a minor relative befriended the gifter, and had her change her will. Inheritance is NOT a given, but rather a real gift if it materializes. Plan without that money in mind.

In my area, people spend their "natural gas" royalties before they even materialize...bad idea. Again, whatever results from that is a gift and is not to be included in the budget. Anything gotten from it goes immediately into retirement savings, not on another trip to the tropics.

There are opportunities for having a hobby turn into an income stream...maybe not a lot, but every little bit helps fund the retirement saving account, and may continue for years after retirement if your health allows you to keep producing whatever it is.

And, of course, make sure that as long as your health continues, that you produce as much of your food needs as possible. Besides helping to reduce the food bill, it also helps keep you mobile and healthier. Savings on the food bill can also add up to more retirement savings. If you don't spend it, it is there when you can no longer maintain a garden and/or animals.

But, the bottom line is, take responsibility for yourself. Plan to be in a better position when you reach normal retirement age. And nothing says that you HAVE to retire at XX age... 

It boils down to wants and needs (as many things do) and knowing that wants postponed or eliminated may give you a more comfortable retirement.


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## Micheal

Anniew, yep, agree whole heartedly, but sadly the majority of near retirees have next to nothing saved, nor have put forth the effort to figure what is needed for a "comfortable" (whatever that is ) retirement. 
That's why I posted the questions and then refered to the other post in hopes that just maybe there's one that will see the light and try to make their future life easier.......
Hey, I can hope!


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## Michael W. Smith

I'm quite certain my retirement won't be as rich as my Dad's. He retired from a State job.

In addition to his Social Security, he also got a pension. He had lots of money at his disposal - but then he also died at the age of 69. Longevity for males does NOT run in the family.

Many of the people retiring now seem to have pensions. For the most part - those are a thing of the past. You can consider yourself lucky if your employer offers a matching 401K - pensions are a thing of the past.

My Great Uncle & Great Aunt had no children and both worked fairly good jobs. They are both in their 90s now. Everyone would think that with no kids, they would be well off for retirement. They both retired at the regular retirement age - 65 or so, and at first they were well off for retirement.

However, about 10 years ago, the Great Uncle mentioned that they did not own stocks - they did not understand stocks, were never taught about stocks, and the wife worked for a bank - so interest bearing accounts were the thing to do - Certificate of Deposits, Savings Accounts, etc. 

When they first retired, interest rates were high. They made a good living off their investments. Now, interest rates don't even keep up with inflation. I don't think they are going to starve - but I think they have had to tighten their belts because they aren't making anything in interest and are having to use their investments.

Of course, I'm sure their Social Security doesn't go near as far now as it did when they first retired. I'm sure SS paid most of their bills when they retired at 65. Thirty years later, I'm sure their SS check doesn't cover a whole lot.

Health insurance is the other big unknown. For those who retired with pensions, many of those people also had health insurance from the company. Just like the pensions, that has disappeared as well. When you retire from your job, your health insurance quits.

I think in the future, many people are going to have to wait until at least 65 to retire. They keep raising the retirement age for full benefits for SS - and if they do that for medicare - many people are going to be trouble.


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## hunter63

Micheal said:


> Read an article about questions to be answered by those that are fortunate enough to choose when they retire.... Listed:
> 1. Do I have enough money?
> 2. What's the impact of working another year or two?
> 3. When should I claim SS?
> 4 When is my spouse planning to retire?
> 5. Where will I get health insurance?
> 
> Those were compiled from "The Society of Actuaries" May 2017.
> 
> Personally of those not already retired and are planning to; read the post "As the budget tightens, what cuts have you made?" Then revisit the questions above..... you'll find reality bites!


Those questions are pretty obvious as is Googling them?

No links?


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## Nevada

Micheal said:


> 1. Do I have enough money?


While that seems like an obvious question, and having assets to fall back on is always a good thing, you really shouldn't be living on savings. The better questions are; 1) how much will it cost for you to live, and 2) what will your monthly income be? If your bills are high and your income is low, making up the difference with savings isn't a sustainable solution in the long term. If you do that then your savings will eventually run out.

But for things like taking a cruise to Alaska or flying to Europe for a vacation, savings & investments are a great thing.


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## lmrose

Calculating what one needs for retirement is a hard thing to do. None of us know what the future holds for our health as we age. We don't know if we will need assisted care or medicine or what ever other needs. The little town of Yarmouth which has about 7,000 people and another 30,000 or less in a county 150 miles square. In the town its self are at-least seven drug stores I can think of and they all get enough business to stay open. There are many people here in their 60's, 70's, 80's and 90's and older, The whole Province of Nova Scotia has more people over a 100 years than anywhere in Canada! Although our medical system is financed by the 15% Goods and Service tax we pay on almost everything people still need to pay for medicine . There are lower rates for the poorest people but still it cost. 
As for ourselves I feel better than ever in my life but Bill has a problem with his heart. Right now he wears a heart monitor and is supposed to trigger the monitor if he has a heart spell. The Dr can't diagnose him until an event is recorded they say. Anything could happen to either of us. The point is, it is hard to prepare for the unexpected. 

My approach in late life is to trim expenses, learn to enjoy life without spending a lot of money and save all we can for all those unexpected things that could happen that we are not aware of yet. If we "graduate" from this life to the next then our children can have what we didn't use if anything is left.


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## Jolly

Let's talk in some generalities...

1. You will spend more money the first you retire, than the last year you worked. Most people do.
2. You will eventually adjust your spending to your new income. Sooner the better.
3. You need about as much net income in retirement, as you had working.
4. You need to be debt free at retirement.
5. The average medical bill total for your retirement life, after Medicare pays, is about $150,000 in today's dollars.
6. Estate planning, even for small estates, is mandatory. Certain types of trusts can shield income from the government, but only if enacted at the proper time. Also, probate can be avoided in many cases by the right type of legal means. 
7. Lastly, do not mix emotion and finance, if at all possible.


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## haypoint

Michael W. Smith said:


> I'm quite certain my retirement won't be as rich as my Dad's. He retired from a State job.


Many states stopped giving pensions 35 years ago. Don't expect anyone currently working for government to be earning a pension.



Micheal said:


> 1. Do I have enough money? Financial experts say you need $1,000,000 saved to be able to retire. For most folks, there'll never be "enough money".
> 2. What's the impact of working another year or two? No one, laying on their death bed ever said, " Gee, I wish I'd worked more of my life."
> 3. When should I claim SS? Actuaries have that worked out, if you live to an average age. Live longer, better to wait until 66. Die early, better to retire at 62. Love your job, start drawing SS at 66 and keep working.
> 4 When is my spouse planning to retire? If you retire first, she won't have the freedom to travel that you have.
> 5. Where will I get health insurance?


Medicare and a supplement.

Here's what frightens me. The local TV station does an obituary segment each morning. Lots of folks my age and younger in the death notice. Most weren't expecting to go.
While in a conference, held at a Casino, I was able to see the tour bus unloading area. All day, folks with nothing better to do than play slot machines, limping along with their canes, walkers, dragging their OX tanks and spouses pushing spouses in their wheel chairs. These are people only a decade or two older than I. But they are also the survivors, far more that age are in cemeteries.

Every morning in most McDonalds, Bakeries, Coffee Shops, you can find a group of retired old men. They have nothing else to do, no where else to go. So they share stories and drink coffee. Tick, tick, tick,,,,,,,,,


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## bobp

I don't want to retire.... it's a flawed concept... I want to be a useful productive citizen my entire life. We intend to work until death, if possible. Or I do anyway. Too many fellas in my family and others I've seen, don't last as long as they could have if they'd of stayed out of the recliner. 
Don't get me wrong..I want to vacation, Possibly have an RV and snowbird it in winter???? We discuss this occasionally... But looking forward I don't expect that the government will have a handle on their spending so I may not have any SS to get?


We should be basically debt free in 3 years, no mortgage, which is a huge step in security for most folks, Unless I decide to take on another peice of property. Which I do have trouble keeping my eyes from looking at... Expanding the farm is constantly on my mind.
We're working on making the farm as productive as we think it can be. So far the income is not quite where I want but it's getting there. 
Investing and saving... Are on our monthly agenda.
I pay cash for our cars ECT... I avoid paying interest at all costs.

Healthcare is my biggest concern...


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## Clem

I just stay busy and eat good. Last time I saw a doctor was sometime in the 70's for falling off a roof and tearing a ligament. Cost me around $300 a month to live. Everything here is paid for, but I do have a pocket full of credit cards, for cash back points. I make a little at the farmer's market.

I see a lot of really bad off people at the farmer's market. Most of them have lived a life of drinking Pepsi, eating potato chips, and sitting on their butt. Around 60 years old, they end up weighing 400 pounds and can't walk 20 ft without taking a break. You can't tell them gently what you're trying to sell, they're so defensive about their health that they assume you're trying to tell them to eat healthy. So, I just don't say anything. They'll pick up a couple squash, couple tomatoes, maybe some okra. They're going to set it on the counter, because their doctor told them to start eating healthy. It'll set there until it rots, and they'll be back again next Friday.

I'm not afraid of dying, it's not living that bothers me. So, I live as hard as I can, every moment is mine. And I take really good care of my body. If I end up with cancer or something, that's just the way it is. Everybody's going to die, some will suffer immensely for a long time, and some will up and die. I watched my father, my mother, my sister, and my wife die horrible, long drawn out deaths. I have no plans of doing that, but I have a plan for stepping away when it's time. All my friends are already gone. My brother-in-law just had one leg amputated, and is needing stents in the other, which is how the one started. I just go on and on, but every day I'm ecstatic just to be alive. Cold, rainy days I've got plenty to do in the house, but I do waste a lot of time on the internet. Here, and other places, with different interests.

Whatever comes, I'm good. I've been more blessed than anybody I know. Haven't worked in 13 years, except for odd jobs for neighbors up on the paved road. I charge them 3 or 4 bucks an hour, because people don't like it if you work for free. But they like it a lot if you work for cheap. I probably pick up 4 or 5 hundred dollars a year. 

I'm not old, but my face seems to be. Crazy looking old coot in the mirror.


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## Nevada

haypoint said:


> Many states stopped giving pensions 35 years ago. Don't expect anyone currently working for government to be earning a pension.


Other than Social Security, the annuity-type retirement plan is falling by the wayside. That's not only true for state & local governments but also for private corporations. Traditional retirement plans create "unfunded liabilities" that are unpopular with business leaders and congressmen.

It seems that 401K-type plans are likely to replace annuities. But 401K wasn't intended to be a retirement plan at all. It was intended to provide a good way to save. It falls short of providing a secure retirement for a couple of reasons. There is no guarantee that 401K investments are going to grow, or even be a safe place to park your money. The management fees for 401Ks are pretty high, eating up a lot of gains. Even if your 401K investments pan out there's no guarantee that you won't outlive your financial reserves.

But employers jumped at the opportunity to replace annuity programs with 401K, because after making certain matching contributions the company is completely off the hook after an employee retires.


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## Jolly

Not all 401k, 403b or 457 plans have high fees. My best client paid $90/year on $1.7M, but that was a government contract rate.

Most mutual fund investment software is written by the same company, if you want a little bit more of an actively managed account. For passive index stuff,Vanguard is hard to beat. Always be aware of fees...


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## Oxankle

Clem makes a lot of good points. He is living very frugally and keeping busy--I agree with him on the internet business too, but we all need a bit of entertainment. His $300 per month may not include his taxes and insurance bills---I agree too with Nevada--living on savings is dangerous if you live longer than you calculated. I expected to die in my sixties because both grandfathers and my dad died young. Here I am still coasting along at 86---but I took a job with a guaranteed pension, I saved some money and I live frugally as compared to my associates. 

Now; on the retirement costs; I was told before I retired (pre-retirement seminar) that I would at first spend as I did working, but that after about five years I would find that I could live much more frugally. True--I am banking a large part of my retirement now, and my income is only about two thirds of my pre-retirement earnings. Most of you will find that you prefer a more comfortable, less hectic (and less expensive) life style when you get a bit older. 

Those fellows at McD's in the morning are there for the social life--McD's is cheap, the coffee is good and some of those men and women have known each other since school days. I've seen rags next to riches, all laughing and having a good time. (Barb and I go there now and then because we like their sausage egg McMuffins).


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## haypoint

Nevada said:


> Other than Social Security, the annuity-type retirement plan is falling by the wayside. That's not only true for state & local governments but also for private corporations. Traditional retirement plans create "unfunded liabilities" that are unpopular with business leaders and congressmen.
> 
> It seems that 401K-type plans are likely to replace annuities. But 401K wasn't intended to be a retirement plan at all. It was intended to provide a good way to save. It falls short of providing a secure retirement for a couple of reasons. There is no guarantee that 401K investments are going to grow, or even be a safe place to park your money. The management fees for 401Ks are pretty high, eating up a lot of gains. Even if your 401K investments pan out there's no guarantee that you won't outlive your financial reserves.
> 
> But employers jumped at the opportunity to replace annuity programs with 401K, because after making certain matching contributions the company is completely off the hook after an employee retires.


The State held some meetings encouraging employees to give up their pensions in exchange for a 401K. They said that the 401K could go way up and those that remained on the pension would be left behind while co-workers retired wealthy. Few took the bait.
But even today, 401K is marketed as an individual retirement account.


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## Tobster

The popularity of the 401K is based in the employer match. The company I worked for had a very generous match. Everyone I knew maxed it out to take advantage of the employer contribution. One problem Nevada mentioned is the eventual cycle of the market. As long as you cash out when it is up, no problem, those who retired in late 2008 and 2009, big problem.

The last year has been unbelievable, I am going to let it ride for one more year, then cash out.


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## Nevada

haypoint said:


> The State held some meetings encouraging employees to give up their pensions in exchange for a 401K. They said that the 401K could go way up and those that remained on the pension would be left behind while co-workers retired wealthy. Few took the bait.
> But even today, 401K is marketed as an individual retirement account.


I would encourage anyone to invest in a 401K because employer matching funds are usually so attractive. But for retirement security nothing beats an annuity. Investments & savings should be managed separately from retirement.

And don't think that Social Security isn't a big deal. If you retire at 62 with a SS benefit of $1000/mo, which is well below average, you will draw over $200,000 if you live to the average life expectancy age of 79.


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## Nevada

Tobster said:


> The popularity of the 401K is based in the employer match. The company I worked for had a very generous match. Everyone I knew maxed it out to take advantage of the employer contribution. One problem Nevada mentioned is the eventual cycle of the market. As long as you cash out when it is up, no problem, those who retired in late 2008 and 2009, big problem.
> 
> The last year has been unbelievable, I am going to let it ride for one more year, then cash out.


401K is a great plan for saving. It's just not a substitute for a proper retirement plan.


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## Hitch

I wish I had a better understanding of retirement. My wife and I primarily talk about where we'd like to live and do with ourselves but not how we'll pay for it. 

Last year we setup a 401k plan for our company with each of us contributing a $1,000 per month in a growth fund. I don't even know what the rate of return is on it. But hopefully by the time I retire it'll be a nice little chunk of change.

As long as I'm healthy I'd like to work until I'm 70 so I can get the max on social security. That only gives me another 20 years to sock it away and my wife a few years after that. We are paying extra on our mortgage every month will a projected payoff in 20 years. So as long as we don't have the mortgages I think we'll be good by then.


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## Hiro

Nevada said:


> Other than Social Security, the annuity-type retirement plan is falling by the wayside. That's not only true for state & local governments but also for private corporations. Traditional retirement plans create "unfunded liabilities" that are unpopular with business leaders and congressmen.
> 
> It seems that 401K-type plans are likely to replace annuities. But 401K wasn't intended to be a retirement plan at all. It was intended to provide a good way to save. It falls short of providing a secure retirement for a couple of reasons. There is no guarantee that 401K investments are going to grow, or even be a safe place to park your money. The management fees for 401Ks are pretty high, eating up a lot of gains. Even if your 401K investments pan out there's no guarantee that you won't outlive your financial reserves.
> 
> But employers jumped at the opportunity to replace annuity programs with 401K, because after making certain matching contributions the company is completely off the hook after an employee retires.


There are a lot of reason why defined benefit retirement plans went by the wayside for the most part. My parents generation had people working for the same company for 25+ years. That is unusual these days. A defined benefit plan with guaranteed payouts doesn't work if your company or the employee doesn't want to stay in the same place that long. A 401k plan that you can move as you change jobs does. 

If someone saves in a 401k from the day he is eligible for 20 years or more in a rational fashion, it is fairly likely he will be better off than or at least as well as someone in a defined benefit program and definitely better off than someone that didn't. He also won't be at the mercy of his employer to stay until he becomes vested in their defined benefit program.

The fees are a problem. I didn't really research it until I sold a business where one of the sticking points was everyone roll over their small business retirement into the 'newco' 401k plan. Then, after looking into it, if you bought a mutual fund on your own the annual fee may be 0.75% per year. But, the exact same fund (by name) in their 401k plan was 1.75% per year. I can only guess where that 1% differential went.......well, an educated guess.


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## ET1 SS

Jolly said:


> Let's talk in some generalities...
> 1. You will spend more money the first you retire, than the last year you worked. Most people do.
> 2. You will eventually adjust your spending to your new income. Sooner the better.
> 3. You need about as much net income in retirement, as you had working.
> 4. You need to be debt free at retirement.
> 5. The average medical bill total for your retirement life, after Medicare pays, is about $150,000 in today's dollars.
> 6. Estate planning, even for small estates, is mandatory. Certain types of trusts can shield income from the government, but only if enacted at the proper time. Also, probate can be avoided in many cases by the right type of legal means.
> 7. Lastly, do not mix emotion and finance, if at all possible.


#1. certainly spent a lot less in retirement, beginning the first year of being retired.

#2. Agreed

#3. I do not see where or how you got this from.

#4. Agreed.

#5. hmm, I don't see that happening. I have excellent healthcare coverage, and the cost is very low.

#6. Agreed.


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## anniew

I retired at 66. Have social security, medicare and supplemental health insurance (about 200 a month). Have no co-pays due to the plan I picked.
When I retired, after being somewhat frugal most of my life and getting individual IRAs most years, plus a little 403 from working less than 10 years where it was covered, and a little here and there, I added up my assets. Since my parents each lived until 93 years, I determined, if I lived that same amount of time, how much of my assets I could use each year to get me to 93, and that is basically how I determined my budget in retirement. Any interest that accumulates is not counted so that can extend my money past 93, along with any of the budget that I don't use each month.
I haven't raised any children which probably has made my finances easier to budget. I also grow a lot of my own food, and pay attention to sales and buy when prices are good. Retirement for me has not been a hardship. I am comfortable but live a modest lifestyle in a below average home.
Planning for retirement is a lifelong thing, not something you start when you are 10 years away from retiring. If you enjoy being more self-sufficient, then the lifestyle is also enjoyable and makes it easier to accumulate retirement savings.


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## Jolly

ET1 SS said:


> #1. certainly spent a lot less in retirement, beginning the first year of being retired.
> 
> #2. Agreed
> 
> #3. I do not see where or how you got this from.
> 
> #4. Agreed.
> 
> #5. hmm, I don't see that happening. I have excellent healthcare coverage, and the cost is very low.
> 
> #6. Agreed.


Number 3 is called replacement income. Lots of articles on the web. As for five, that's an average number from a white paper done by the folks I used to work for...Some peg it just a bit lower, but we thought ours was a bit more accurate. What Money has to say:

http://money.cnn.com/2016/08/16/retirement/retirement-health-care-costs/index.html


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## emdeengee

I wonder why so many think that retirement is the end of a productive and useful life. I am retired but my husband has 3 years to go. We can hardly wait. Working and saving for 35, 40 or 45 years and then being able to be free of the constraints of having to make money is a great gift. Of course you have to plan. We know many people who have retired and other than one who has a severe alcohol problem they are all happy, busy, useful and productive. Some, (including my father and will be my husband) will continue to do contract work that pleases them. And pays very well. I have found a whole new career, one that I would never have even thought about. Just the thought of doing something new and different is exciting. 

As for leaving the world less productive - lots of very hard working, intelligent, well educated and well trained young people out there just waiting to get their foot in the door and lots of middle aged workers more than capable to step forward into vacated positions. Do they know as much as us old ones - maybe yes and maybe no but then again I didn't know at 30, 40, or 50 what I know now and they will learn and even surpass us. I know that I did and my husband certainly did as well.


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## lmrose

anniew said:


> It's not so much rocket science to set yourself up for retirement, as it is having the will power to forego SOME of the wants vs. needs and squirrel money away.
> 
> Assuming someone has a job, or if need be two jobs, the earlier savings begin, the better. Although interest rates are negligible right now, it's still a good idea to start accumulating money, or maybe investing it somewhere ??? where the interest on principle will be better....or invest in a second building that can give you rental income indefinitely.
> 
> Most people count on social security, but it wasn't made to be a full retirement income...so plan accordingly with a backup plan if social security disappears.
> 
> And go into retirement with NO, that's NO debt, nor use credit cards after retirement to purchase things. It's that slippery slope that's always referred to...credit costs money.
> 
> Also, don't count on inheritance, which can sometimes bite you when you find out the gifter was not as generous as you expected, or they suffered extreme expenses near the end of their lives and had to use the money themselves. Or, as I can attest to, at the last minute, a minor relative befriended the gifter, and had her change her will. Inheritance is NOT a given, but rather a real gift if it materializes. Plan without that money in mind.
> 
> In my area, people spend their "natural gas" royalties before they even materialize...bad idea. Again, whatever results from that is a gift and is not to be included in the budget. Anything gotten from it goes immediately into retirement savings, not on another trip to the tropics.
> 
> There are opportunities for having a hobby turn into an income stream...maybe not a lot, but every little bit helps fund the retirement saving account, and may continue for years after retirement if your health allows you to keep producing whatever it is.
> 
> And, of course, make sure that as long as your health continues, that you produce as much of your food needs as possible. Besides helping to reduce the food bill, it also helps keep you mobile and healthier. Savings on the food bill can also add up to more retirement savings. If you don't spend it, it is there when you can no longer maintain a garden and/or animals.
> 
> But, the bottom line is, take responsibility for yourself. Plan to be in a better position when you reach normal retirement age. And nothing says that you HAVE to retire at XX age...
> 
> It boils down to wants and needs (as many things do) and knowing that wants postponed or eliminated may give you a more comfortable retirement.


What fantastic advice ! Taking responsibility for yourself and your future is how we try to live too. Have a nice day.


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## Jolly

Just an interesting statistic....If a married couple both make the age of 65, the chances of one of them living to 90 is one in two...


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## Fishindude

Tobster said:


> The popularity of the 401K is based in the employer match. The company I worked for had a very generous match. Everyone I knew maxed it out to take advantage of the employer contribution. One problem Nevada mentioned is the eventual cycle of the market. As long as you cash out when it is up, no problem, those who retired in late 2008 and 2009, big problem.
> 
> The last year has been unbelievable, I am going to let it ride for one more year, then cash out.


I don't think this is a sound strategy. You can't time the market and predict anything very accurately.
Better to just take draws as needed to live on out of your 401K, then keep the rest working in investments withing the plan.
"Cashing out" will also mean you get hit with all of the taxes at once.


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## susieneddy

haypoint said:


> Every morning in most McDonalds, Bakeries, Coffee Shops, you can find a group of retired old men. They have nothing else to do, no where else to go. So they share stories and drink coffee. Tick, tick, tick,,,,,,,,,


Sounds like they are in Gods waiting room


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## ET1 SS

Jolly said:


> Number 3 is called replacement income. Lots of articles on the web.


I retired in 2001, so I am in my 17th year of retirement.

I have found that in retirement I 'need' about 1/3 of the income I made when I was working.

My fulltime working income peaked at around $75k/year. My pension this last year paid me $17,760/year.





> ... As for five, that's an average number from a white paper done by the folks I used to work for...Some peg it just a bit lower, but we thought ours was a bit more accurate


End of life care is expensive. Healthcare, as we age, gets expensive.


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## haypoint

Easy to give advice that has worked out for you. Just set up a regular savings plan, invest wisely, stay healthy and retirement is sweet.
Except just as many don't get that blessing. The job goes away and you eat up your savings while looking for a job or training for a new one. The market takes a dump. Your health fails.
I had a job with a good pension. I invested my savings in a safe place, land. But an unexpected divorce cut my pension in half. The housing bust caused land in this area to crash. So, I worked another decade. Saved another $200,000. But it is in stocks, so I may lose that, too.

Some in this discussion mentioned "cashing out". That sounds like when you are ready to leave the slot machines and go home. A reasonable plan would be to move your savings/investments into some safe, low growth investment and drain off 6 or 7% of the total, annually. If you are being real with yourself, you'll draw off your 401K fast enough to run it dry by the time you hit 80. By then most of us will be dead or watching Gunsmoke or Bonanza between naps. You won't need money to buy a snow board or chain oil for your Harley.


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## mnn2501

Hitch said:


> Last year we setup a 401k plan for our company with each of us contributing a $1,000 per month in a growth fund. I don't even know what the rate of return is on it.


Great that you can sock away $1K a month, but you really should know what its been paying historically.


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## Danaus29

haypoint said:


> If you are being real with yourself, you'll draw off your 401K fast enough to run it dry by the time you hit 80. By then most of us will be dead or watching Gunsmoke or Bonanza between naps. You won't need money to buy a snow board or chain oil for your Harley.


You have to start withdrawing money by the age of 70 or pay extra taxes on it. Pitiful because I know people well into their 80's that are in good health and still very active. They sure could use that scant bit of interest a 401 earns. 

I'm already napping between Gunsmoke and Bonanza! But I had major surgery recently and am still recovering. I hope to be doing as well as my grandmothers were when they were 80+.


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## haypoint

Danaus29 said:


> You have to start withdrawing money by the age of 70 or pay extra taxes on it. Pitiful because I know people well into their 80's that are in good health and still very active. They sure could use that scant bit of interest a 401 earns.


For people that have been saving money their whole life, spending their savings comes hard for them.
The harsh reality is that if your nest egg is large enough to produce income, with today's low return on savings, that must be a big nest egg. If you are in your 80s, what do you think you are saving it for? You don't have any reason to draw it all off, but if you are counting on the scant interest the savings provides, start cutting into the principal.
If your plan is to give your live savings to family, do it tax free in 10 or 20,000 yearly gifts.
You are allowed to hold on to your savings, scrimp through the final days of your life and let the courts, government and long lost relatives fight over what's left.
There are things I can do at 70, if I had the money, that I won't be as able to do at 90. What good is the money then?


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## Danaus29

I didn't say interest on savings. You can pick up more money off the sidewalk in a month than a huge savings account would earn all year. Some 401s, managed properly, do earn a decent bit of interest. If you have a savings account, passing on the money is simple. Payable on death accounts don't go through the courts and are exempt from disputes over wills or trusts.


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## haypoint

Danaus29 said:


> I didn't say interest on savings. You can pick up more money off the sidewalk in a month than a huge savings account would earn all year. Some 401s, managed properly, do earn a decent bit of interest. If you have a savings account, passing on the money is simple. Payable on death accounts don't go through the courts and are exempt from disputes over wills or trusts.


Oh yes, 401K. That thrilling ride over the past couple quarters, the Dow setting records each week was wonderful. Those gains made other investments look like fool's play. But so far we've set daily loss records twice in one week as it continues to slide, lost interest and starting to gnaw away at principal. Imagine the sleepless nights for some 80 year old that just lost the "decent bit of interest" that he was funding his monthly prescriptions with?
Hold still a minute. First you aren't talking about interest on savings, then you jump to 401K investments, properly managed to grow decent income (stock market, because you don't get much with bonds), then you are back to savings accounts passing on. Sure you can set up ways for throwing money at your family when you die, but they'll have to divide it between the tax man and the $6000 a month senior care center that has been bleeding you dry.
Using your retirement savings to hike the Appalachian Trail, might be too little, too late.


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## Danaus29

You just want to argue and I'm not playing. Do what you want with your money and I'll do what I want with mine. There is no "one size fits all" plan for funding of retirement.


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