# Concrete Block or ICF Wall



## AlphaPilot (Oct 28, 2014)

I am building a home in the future. 32 x 36 for the footprint. Basement and one story above that. The basement will be a daylight, or walkout basement on the back side.

I would try to do as much of the work as I can. :hammer: I am looking into ICF and Concrete Block (CMU) for the foundation walls.

Anybody work with either one, have some input? :kiss:


Thanks!


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## nc_mtn (Nov 24, 2007)

While I've never built either, I've done some research on ICF. The great thing about them is the R value. You can get like 20+. Also, depending on the product, there is not as much work if you're going to finish the inside wall as a block wall is.
I've heard a lot of people that live in old fashioned block walled houses talk about how extreme they are. In the winter, they tend to be cold, and in the summer/sun they heat up fast. I also know a guy that always complained about the walls "sweating". 
I would not build with block after what I've read (in terms of a finished house).


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## Declan (Jan 18, 2015)

I personally never worked with them, but a friend of mine used ICF and he highly recommended them to any of us who ever built anything again. I will note a few things though. It was apparently time consuming because he had to pour in layers and he sometimes was delayed waiting for the next layer of "leggo's" as he called them to arrive. He was in no particular hurry because he was building a new house on his farm to downsize out of the drafty 100+ year old big house, but it took him quite awhile. I recall he was heldup for a few weeks at one stage just waiting to get one specific corner block.


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## ad in wnc (Jan 12, 2014)

I used to live in a block basement. It was 3/4 underground. We put masonry paint on the inside walls once in 10 years. The walls were never wet and the temp stayed the same 64 degrees year round.


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## mike554 (Jun 9, 2012)

I like Superior Walls. Very well insulated and very quick to erect although not a diy job.


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## moeh1 (Jan 6, 2012)

I'm with Mike, Superior Walls worked out very well for me. I was looking at ICFs before that, couldn't find a dealer with the blocks and to rent jacks from. My recollection was block, poured, ICF and Superior were all fairly close in price 12 years ago. After owning my previous home, block was on the bottom of my list.


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## michael ark (Dec 11, 2013)

I had a block basement it sweated you had to coat it every few years and it would crack at the seams being in earthquake country.I would go with icf then poured walls before i went back to that.


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## Darren (May 10, 2002)

A tip for either concrete or block if you think you may have issues with water. Ask the supplier of either the block or concrete if silica fume is available. Silica fume is a by product of alloy production. It's extremely fine and makes concrete and block more impervious to water. It can be added to the mortar too but respiratory protection must be used.

When going with poured walls, don't forget to incorporate a water stop in the floor slab if poured first with the wall on top or in the footer if the walls are placed directly on them.


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## Declan (Jan 18, 2015)

Very few builders in our area will do poured walls. They prefer the safety of block I think because they do not have to spend a fortune on the repair or replacement if the pour goes wrong.


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## texican (Oct 4, 2003)

ICF's sound great.... but, imho, they are NOT a DIY type of project. Cement block, anyone can do.... become proficient, learn the rules (codes) and do one block at a time. ICF, you're going to need to have someone pour all that cement at one time, and 'pump it'... which costs real money.


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## Solar Geek (Mar 14, 2014)

Hi, I posted the following in an earlier thread almost identical to what you are asking. Here is my post and the thread link follows

"We live in an ICF green built home (as best possible), solar powered, wood heated (for the most part) and solar hot water.

None of these seemed to be DIY projects unless you have worked extensively with each component. I was on-site almost everyday for the build, dealt with every contractor, and resolved the millions of decisions that occur when building a "unique" style home. Each of the trades, and especially the ICF guys, told me it took MANY builds to get familiarity with all the complexities that can and will arise.

This is not to say "don't do it"; this is to say do your homework and maybe ask to observe or volunteer at an ICF build or 10! ICF is expensive if you are delayed and the trucks show up (didn't happen to us but heard horror stories). It is quicker than stick built but you need all the trades to understand the wall structure and TIMING.

We have a straight metal roof to cut costs, solar engineered overhang to allow for and control passive solar summer and winter. Again, all of this takes calculations galore. 

A really helpful ICF and other building issues web forum is "greenbuildingtalk.com" (Mods if not allowed to post please remove). Their ICF people are great. But you do HAVE to read the back questions before asking the same one over and over (i.e. "how much will it cost", "which ICFs to use" and such) for them to take you seriously.

Another basice help site with great links, http://www.designbasics.com/altcon/i...rete-forms.asp

Hope this helps. SG"

Thread link:http://www.homesteadingtoday.com/co...529037-icf-sip-does-anyone-live-diy-home.html


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## caswellian (Jan 11, 2015)

I build concrete forms for a living and have the skill and resources to build and pour concrete walls. Once they are stripped you can then damp proof and apply insulation to the cold side of the concrete and have uninsulated thermal mass on the warm side.
It probably is not economical to purchase the lumber for formwork, unless you have uses for it when you are finished. You could also rent a form system like Symons but they require some experience and as mentioned before that blow outs can ruin your day.
Icf systems are more diy or ideal for inexperienced crews to erect. They are much lighter and faster than block work, which I have no use for.


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## Josheaton23 (Jan 8, 2015)

As a masonry contractor, we build both Cmu (block) walls and ICF. Both wall systems have their pro's and cons. The expense is going to be about the same with both. For someone wanting to do the work themselves, block although more labor intense would be the way to go. A block wall can be a finished product where as ICF is not. I personally would never have ICF for one reason, and that is that if the smallest spark or flame comes in contact with the surface it goes up in flames in seconds and does stop until everything melts off the concrete. It burns big and fast! The R-value on ICF is better than block. There is a product that i am real impressed with called Bautex. It is a ICF hybrid wall system that is easy to do yourself, and has the same R-value as ICF. I have already told my wife that when we build our next home, it will be with Bautex.


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## Keno (Dec 22, 2014)

Check out my post on the other thread asking about cinder blocks. I found this company in researching for my homestead in U.P. Michigan. It's simple, economic, and I believe it to best the best system for forming and the best solution for building. I have no stake in the company, just VERY excited about the product. Dave (the owner/inventor) will talk to you personally if you call, and explain in great detail. It's called Spider Tie. 

Hope it helps... With this system it is doable at a homeowner skill level with pro results, and they hold your hand every step of the way.


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## haypoint (Oct 4, 2006)

ICF is the way to go. Makes poured walls a DIY project. I've never seen a block wall that didn't crack. Blocks offer little insulation. Adding insulation to the inside of a block wall requires studs or at least furring strips. With ICF, you get the insulation and strips built in for screwing the drywall. ICF is fast. Set up the "legos" cut with a hand saw, snap in the rebar. Pour about a third of the wall and by the time you get around the basement, pour another third, then pour the final height. Different ICF companies offer different support. Some hold free classes, some offer on-site support.
If you can't get a cement pumper truck, you can't use ICF.
ICF do not support flame. Building codes require drywall cover for all insulation. But if you pour gasoline on a ICF, it will melt, just like a disposable coffee cup. If you put a torch on a ICF it will melt, just like other foam boards.
You can also get ICF for floors. Great for radiant heat. Set it up, pour and you have an insulated soundproof basement.
The ICF forms increase the cost, but reduces labor costs. When figuring costs, make sure you include the cost of insulating block walls.


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