# what to do... i am so angry...



## shagerman (Apr 10, 2008)

one of my neighbors.. which is rich. says that if he loses 10 calves a year it wont hurt him... gggggggggggggggrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr:sob: well in the last month he has lost a few and also has lost the mothers. but instead of calling the rendering truck. he has just left them out in the field for the coyotes, i really want to call on him. but who do you call? and this guy just makes me want to puke.. never calls a vet.. for anything,,, i just feel so sorry for the animals.


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## MO_cows (Aug 14, 2010)

How much land does he have? Putting carcasses on a remote part of property is a fairly common practice.

He lost "a few" out of how many? It is a sad fact that a few will likely die every year out of a large herd, even with proper care. They eat a toxic plant, get a piece of hardware, a fast acting pneumonia, all kinds of "legit" things happen that don't mean any neglect or cruelty is involved. So make sure of your facts before you accuse your neighbor.

Assume you are not in city limits, so the sheriff for the county would be the one to call.


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## haypoint (Oct 4, 2006)

Not legal in Michigan no matter how much land you have. Different states have diffrent laws and different people/agencies handle this.
In Michigan the Department of Agriculture will take the complaint and send someone out to investigate. I think you have 24 hours to bury a cow. There are companies that haul dead cattle to be rendered, too.
Try your Animal Control Officer or local Police.


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## tlbranch (Jun 8, 2012)

I don't blame you a bit. That's outrageous! I would start by calling the local Humane Society. Our's handles livestock as well as dogs and cats. If they can't help you they should at least be able to tell you who you could call.


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## Tinga (Jul 24, 2011)

Most of our cattle farmers here either 1. Bury the body's 2. Donate them to the Wild Animal Park. But most are bigger places and the smaller guys just use a backhoe and dig a hole


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## bigbluegrass (Jan 11, 2011)

I would be cautious about calling on your neighbor - legal or not. If you lost a few cows, what would you want your neighbor to do for you?:soap:


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## G. Seddon (May 16, 2005)

I guess you could contact Animal Control or your county extension agent to find out the correct procedure for disposal in your area and ask their personnel to contact the neighbor.

The last time I made a stink about a dead cow carcass left out in plain view (on another internet board), I was pretty much ridiculed for it. I just don't think it's right, but then I'm learning that, sadly, most people don't advocate for the animal (alive or dead).


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## mekasmom (Jan 19, 2010)

MO_cows said:


> Putting carcasses on a remote part of property is a fairly common practice.


I agree.


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## haypoint (Oct 4, 2006)

"Putting carcasses on a remote part of property is a fairly common practice."

So is pouring used engine oil in a ditch. Don't make it right.


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## farmgirl6 (May 20, 2011)

my cows are pets and I only have three and live in the burbs, but I don't really see an upside to leaving a carcass rather than at least burning it even on a big place...seems like you spend so much time battling flies and the nasty problems they bring, as well as aggressive coyotes and other preditors sending them an invitation would be counter productive...


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## Fowler (Jul 8, 2008)

haypoint said:


> "Putting carcasses on a remote part of property is a fairly common practice."
> 
> So is pouring used engine oil in a ditch. Don't make it right.


Oil vs carcass, a little extreme comparisons dont ya think? I dont go around burying all the dead dears, bears, wolves, elephants, etc, etc, etc, when they die either.


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## MO_cows (Aug 14, 2010)

It is gross, but that is why scavengers are part of the ecosystem. Coyotes, foxes, buzzards, even our beloved bald eagle will scavenge from a carcass. In Yellowstone, you know what they do with winter kill and road kill that is within sight of the tourists? Drag it to a more remote location and let nature take its course.

I think the real issue is how the neighbor takes care of them when they are ALIVE. Is there adequate forage for how many cattle they have, do they vaccinate/worm, etc.


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## whodunit (Mar 29, 2004)

I think the only requirements in Idaho are specific distances from occupied dwellings and water sources. This is in the unincorporated areas.


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## SCRancher (Jan 11, 2011)

I lost a calf 2 years ago in the winter - I have a flock of buzzards that hang out in a bunch of dead trees that discovered it a few days later - within 7 days there was only the hide and bones left.

I don't have a back hoe or I may have buried it and it was only around 100 pounds. if a 1000+ pound animal dies I believe I would go knocking on neighbor's doors to see if I could borrow a back hoe.

Also summer I would have disposed of it another method as the fly's and stench would have been a consideration.


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## sammyd (Mar 11, 2007)

I would put it down as none of my business and carry on.


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## opportunity (Mar 31, 2012)

Depends how big mine are and where they die the one that was close to the house/road was put 10 feet under with the backhoe the one out in the field in the trees let the wild animals have her. i have lost three adults in 5 years even with good practices things can happen. many places loose 10% a year I wish I didn't loos so many but things do happen


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## tinknal (May 21, 2004)

G. Seddon said:


> but then I'm learning that, sadly, most people don't advocate for the animal (alive or dead).


What in the world would a dead animal need an advocate for?

I actually knew a woman who called the humane society about a road killed ****! :doh:


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## springvalley (Jun 23, 2009)

In Illinois it is ok to compost animals, have to have certain amount of hay or straw or shavings over top of them. But it is legal, and cheaper than calling the meat wagon. > Thanks Marc

P.S. I think I would just ask the neighbor if he would consider doing this.


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## topside1 (Sep 23, 2005)

If the carcass is viewable from your kitchen window then how about just asking your neighbor to drag the body out of your viewing range? What if the cattle owner was poor but raised well conditioned livestock? Not everyone has the funds, take advantage of the circle of life...It's natural Topside


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## tinknal (May 21, 2004)

Perfectly normal for a large cattle farm. If have 50 cows and lose 10 calves it's too many. If you have 200 cows it's not bad. If you have 400 cows it's excellent.

As far as dead cows, life in the country, get used to it.


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## rancher1913 (Dec 5, 2008)

the megadairy next to me keeps a pile of dead animals that the dog food company comes out to pick up every other day, some days there's 20 or 30 carcases. they do that because the local nacker man charges for pick ups now, last time I checked it was 50 bucks per animal--years ago they paid you.


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## goodhors (Sep 6, 2011)

The composting, done correctly, is now approved in Michigan for disposal of large animal carcasses. I only know about one rendering company in the whole state, that still picks up dead animals, and they do charge for it. Dead animals are supposed to be covered, protected from being eaten and torn apart before the rendering truck gets there on their weekly State rounds.

With the composting rules passed into law, there are a number of things to consider so you are within those laws. It can be very clean with no smells, no attraction to animals you don't want visiting. The MSU folks testing the process, said manure piles to make the needed heat for disposal were the best method. They didn't use hay or straw coverings, but did use a variety of manures, cow, horse, that can be piled over the carcass. Usually only a few large bones left of the carcass in six months. Disposes faster if the manure pile is big or especially hot.

With so many water sources in our State, you don't want to contaminate the system, with the contents of a dead animal. And volumes of carcasses have LOTS of germs and bad things inside of them to carry disease downstream, down into the aquifer for "sharing" with other water users. Lot of laws about water contamination. Animal Control or Sheriff would be whom you call about dead carcasses not attended to. Local pig farmer got heavily fined for not burying his numerous dead pigs 6ft deep, cover dirt washed off to expose them. Wild animals visiting were spreading dead parts around as well. Nasty mess, and he had to pay for County workers coming in to re-bury the animals. 

We have had laws for burying dead large animals in place for many years. At least 6ft down and well covered when you finish. I am sure some folks did dumping into the woods, but the LAW said the animals were supposed to be hauled away or buried. And now they can be composted in your manure piles. Manure heats things up to very high temps, killing germs and diseases that carcass might be carrying.


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## G. Seddon (May 16, 2005)

tinknal said:


> What in the world would a dead animal need an advocate for?
> 
> I actually knew a woman who called the humane society about a road killed ****! :doh:


This issue always attracts a multitude of opinions.

tinknal, I have a small registered herd, usually <20, and they are very much individuals. I take the best care of them that I can and most of them have returned the favor with good calves over the years. If one dies, it gets buried, not left out in the open for buzzards and coyotes to pick at. 

Do whatever you choose with your dead animals. For me, it's a matter of respect for that animal's life (and death). End of discussion as far as I'm concerned!!!


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## shagerman (Apr 10, 2008)

bigbluegrass said:


> I would be cautious about calling on your neighbor - legal or not. If you lost a few cows, what would you want your neighbor to do for you?:soap:




honestly not a thing...especially with my animals.


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## shagerman (Apr 10, 2008)

ok. here is some more facts.. the guy raises 70 or 80 head.. and one of the mothers was pushed into a creek... really... come on.. that creek also provides water for other animals on down the line. he loses a few and goes and buys more. a very vicious cycle i believe..and losing animals because he wont call a vet out to see what is wrong.. and just let the animal suffer,,, my opinion is oh hell no... his animals are out several times a year.. walking on the roads.. he usually gets them back in ,,,in a few days... fix the fence i say... i am really having a hard time even wanting to help him anymore.... chasing cows back in. he puts out 3 round bales for 80 head..plus calves... really... they are half starved... and i am so sick about this.. and if you talk to him... forget it. you may as well talk to the wall. .. and i have.. so now what? forget about it.. not gonna happen..he has about 80 acres...and it looks like crap right now also. and talking about expense.. oh how well i know.. but i do it because i want my animals healthy.. he doesnt... and the man is a millionaire.... i cant think of a reason why he wouldnt take care of them.. or on the other hand.bury them.


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## bigbluegrass (Jan 11, 2011)

shagerman said:


> honestly not a thing...especially with my animals.


We all know the golden rule - treat others like you would want them to treat you... not saying you have to like it.

The guy sounds like a first class . I have two neighbors who I get along with great. Another - not so much. He probably isn't as bad as your neighbor, but I can relate. Hang in there.:hair:hair I would have a really really hard time not calling on him for pushing a dead animal into the creek. If it were laying out where the buzzards and so forth could clean it up quickly, it wouldn't be as bad. But in the creek.???? Is it a dry creek or full of water? As dry as it is here, the buzzards would get it cleaned up before it rained I am almost certain!


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## tinknal (May 21, 2004)

G. Seddon said:


> If one dies, it gets buried, not left out in the open for buzzards and coyotes to pick at.
> 
> Do whatever you choose with your dead animals. For me, it's a matter of respect for that animal's life (and death). End of discussion as far as I'm concerned!!!


I have respect for the lives of coyotes and buzzards too. The whole circle of life, ya know?

Why bury it when another being can benefit ?


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## tinknal (May 21, 2004)

I'm curious how the OP knows the guy is a millionaire?


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## MO_cows (Aug 14, 2010)

bigbluegrass said:


> We all know the golden rule - treat others like you would want them to treat you... not saying you have to like it.
> 
> The guy sounds like a first class . I have two neighbors who I get along with great. Another - not so much. He probably isn't as bad as your neighbor, but I can relate. Hang in there.:hair:hair I would have a really really hard time not calling on him for pushing a dead animal into the creek. If it were laying out where the buzzards and so forth could clean it up quickly, it wouldn't be as bad. But in the creek.???? Is it a dry creek or full of water? As dry as it is here, the buzzards would get it cleaned up before it rained I am almost certain!


In the creek?? The OP said the carcass was in a field.

A dead animal should NEVER be left in a creek or pond.


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## Plowpoint (May 2, 2012)

What does being well to do have anything to do with this? A lot of people make assumptions on another persons financial obligations and are completely wrong.

Here in Maine you can get a permit for animal disposal which I have, and it is perfectly legal to dump carcasses where the coyotes can eat them. I do this all the time and my coyote hunting friends know where the "bait pile" is, start their dogs there and kill a lot of coyotes that way.

As for never calling a vet, during lambing season I deliberately take off on vacation knowing when I come back, only the easy lambers will make it. A few die, but it is much better to take a loss from a few lambs then to call the vet every week because of bad genetics, and to pull lambs out of their mothers every year. I know this is a cattle sub-forum, and there is a dairy farm in the family, and while the vet is there every week for something, for beef operations I can completely understand letting nature take its course.

I do not expect everyone out there to do as I do. It is a free country and as such feel free to spend all the money on your cows that you want. Myself, I am willing to take a loss on a few dead lambs and make up for it 5 years from now when my genetics are better and I have hearty sheep. That is my preferred way of farming, and if yours is different, so be it. Farm as you see fit, but don't be looking down your nose and over the rock wall at my method and calling it wrong. It has been done this way for the 392 years we have been farming here in New England.


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## topside1 (Sep 23, 2005)

The owner pushed the dead cow into the creek to rot? Please, what drama, I've had enough for one day....Topside


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## dlskidmore (Apr 18, 2012)

Plowpoint said:


> As for never calling a vet, during lambing season I deliberately take off on vacation knowing when I come back, only the easy lambers will make it. A few die, but it is much better to take a loss from a few lambs then to call the vet every week because of bad genetics, and to pull lambs out of their mothers every year. I know this is a cattle sub-forum, and there is a dairy farm in the family, and while the vet is there every week for something, for beef operations I can completely understand letting nature take its course.


If you culled after lambing you'd be able to use ewe and lamb for freezer meat? Is the vet that expensive, or is it emotionally harder to knowingly cull after putting in all that energy to save them?


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## MARYDVM (Jun 7, 2004)

Plowpoint said:


> As for never calling a vet, during lambing season I deliberately take off on vacation knowing when I come back, only the easy lambers will make it. A few die, but it is much better to take a loss from a few lambs then to call the vet every week because of bad genetics, and to pull lambs out of their mothers every year. I know this is a cattle sub-forum, and there is a dairy farm in the family, and while the vet is there every week for something, for beef operations I can completely understand letting nature take its course.
> 
> I do not expect everyone out there to do as I do. It is a free country and as such feel free to spend all the money on your cows that you want. Myself, I am willing to take a loss on a few dead lambs and make up for it 5 years from now when my genetics are better and I have hearty sheep. That is my preferred way of farming, and if yours is different, so be it. Farm as you see fit, but don't be looking down your nose and over the rock wall at my method and calling it wrong. It has been done this way for the 392 years we have been farming here in New England.


Not calling a vet for economic reasons is something every producer has to deal with.

Going on vacation while your ewes are lambing is just plain neglect. It's not bad genetics that causes a difficult birth due to a head or leg being out of position. If you're condemning a ewe to an agonizing death because you can't be bothered to provide minimal care, to check on them, and go in and straighten out a poor presentation when needed, then that's wrong and it's been wrong for every one of those 392 years.


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## tinknal (May 21, 2004)

shagerman said:


> ok. here is some more facts.. the guy raises 70 or 80 head.. and one of the mothers was pushed into a creek... really... come on.. that creek also provides water for other animals on down the line. he loses a few and goes and buys more. a very vicious cycle i believe..and losing animals because he wont call a vet out to see what is wrong.. and just let the animal suffer,,, my opinion is oh hell no... his animals are out several times a year.. walking on the roads.. he usually gets them back in ,,,in a few days... fix the fence i say... i am really having a hard time even wanting to help him anymore.... chasing cows back in. he puts out 3 round bales for 80 head..plus calves... really... they are half starved... and i am so sick about this.. and if you talk to him... forget it. you may as well talk to the wall. .. and i have.. so now what? forget about it.. not gonna happen..he has about 80 acres...and it looks like crap right now also. and talking about expense.. oh how well i know.. but i do it because i want my animals healthy.. he doesnt... and the man is a millionaire.... i cant think of a reason why he wouldnt take care of them.. or on the other hand.bury them.


I............... really..............think,,,,,,,,,,,,you need..............to ............give it....................a.............rest!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## Karin L (Oct 5, 2006)

shagerman said:


> ok. here is some more facts.. the guy raises 70 or 80 head.. and one of the mothers was pushed into a creek... really... come on.. that creek also provides water for other animals on down the line. he loses a few and goes and buys more. a very vicious cycle i believe..and losing animals because he wont call a vet out to see what is wrong.. and just let the animal suffer,,, my opinion is oh hell no... his animals are out several times a year.. walking on the roads.. he usually gets them back in ,,,in a few days... fix the fence i say... i am really having a hard time even wanting to help him anymore.... chasing cows back in. he puts out 3 round bales for 80 head..plus calves... really... they are half starved... and i am so sick about this.. and if you talk to him... forget it. you may as well talk to the wall. .. and i have.. so now what? forget about it.. not gonna happen..he has about 80 acres...and it looks like crap right now also. and talking about expense.. oh how well i know.. but i do it because i want my animals healthy.. he doesnt... and the man is a millionaire.... i cant think of a reason why he wouldnt take care of them.. or on the other hand.bury them.


Problem is is that there really is nothing you _can_ do about this other than finding some reason or other to call the police/sheriff or SPCA. If it upsets you this much I would even start to say no to his requests to help him put the animals back in or anything else related to him and his animals.

My hunch that he's not taking care of them is that he probably thinks that they can look after themselves and doesn't need to do anything to care for them, which couldn't be farther from the truth. And 70 to 80 head on 80 acres?? No wonder the land looks like crap, and the animals look malnourished!

There are people that don't deserve to have animals but nothing stops them from having them, other than a hefty fine and a legal action against them being able to own any animals. 

And then you have the other choice of turning a blind eye to this and letting him do is thing. It's really not your business how someone raises their animals other than their own. JMHO.


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## dlskidmore (Apr 18, 2012)

MARYDVM said:


> It's not bad genetics that causes a difficult birth due to a head or leg being out of position.


There could be genetic components, it wouldn't be a bad idea to add to selection criteria when deciding which does to cull. For example a small ewe that tends towards multiple births might have more trouble than a larger ewe that tends towards single births. But I don't think I could go on vacation and let the herd self-cull. In addition to animal welfare concerns, it's wasteful to let good meat go bad. Even if she's old and tough, she's worth something on the dog food market around here.


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## shagerman (Apr 10, 2008)

tinknal said:


> I'm curious how the OP knows the guy is a millionaire?


i know the guy.. and he owns half of this town,, among st other things he does,,,


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## Plowpoint (May 2, 2012)

We kind of had this issue a few weeks ago on the big dairy farm in the family. Luckily we have 2 farms, one that houses our milking cows, and another, about 18 miles away that has our calfs and heifers.

A person found a dead calf in a stream and called the police. They showed up and as they were fishing the dead calf out of the stream, the school bus driver stops and asks what is going on. They said our farm had dumped a dead calf in the stream. He was like "No way. I know these guys and they don't have a single calf on this farm, it is on the other side of town."

By this time the news shows up and planned to make it a big production on the news. We call up and explain the situation and they decide not to run the story...

The point is, people assume things, like the calf coming from the closest farm. I do not condone anyone dumping animals in a stream, like Michigan we are permitted for certain animal disposal and have places to do that, sheep and cows a like.

As for genetics, you would be surprised what role genetics plays, from curly horns, to white eye lashes to bad feet. It is the same with sheep. Self-culling is not something I came up with but something I took back from Ireland and Australia, sheep farms that nature run its course. Over time they have very few problems compared to farms that babysit their sheep. I do have hired help that give the sheep water and feed and check on them once per day, but I have never had any hired help take care of my sheep as intently as I do...and why should they, they have little vested interest in them.

As for vets, there is a saying; a downed sheep is a dead sheep. They know that with no defense, any sign of weakness means they are singled out by predators. So they hide injury until it is so bad, they cannot recover from it. This is just the way it is with sheep. I have yet to call the vet for something where the sheep did not ultimately die. I did have one Cesarian done and did save twin lambs, but that was it. Having sheep and cows all my life though, you would be surprised what I have for meds and how involved I get. It is not so much a cost thing as it is a I-have-already-tried-everything-a-vet-would-have-tried thing.

I will say though, that I have met people like the OP describes, and now that there is some more information, it sounds like the guy is a dirt-bag and should not have animals.


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## Cliff (Jun 30, 2007)

The only way you have any right to call anyone is if the animals are dying from malnutrition. It isn't against the law (yet) not to call a vet or not to vaccinate or worm. If they aren't starving to death then you need to mind your own business.

As far as leaving the occasional carcass in the field, really no big deal as far as I am concerned. Here every trace of them is gone within a couple of days. Circle of life and all that. Recent to the country folk just tend to be finicky about such things because death is necessarily so hidden away in city areas. And imo it isn't disrespect to the animal to leave it for the buzzards and coyotes, the animal is dead and gone and wouldn't give a whit what happened to it's body. Death is a fact of life, that's why scavengers exist. I have much more productive things to do with my time than run around burying 1500 lb animals that will be completely gone in a couple days if I do nothing.


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## haypoint (Oct 4, 2006)

Genetics does play a part in head or legs out of position. Oversized calves are often unable to get properly positioned for a successful birth. Breeders have been breeding for lower birth weight and calving ease for many years.


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## haypoint (Oct 4, 2006)

Dead animals left in the field are a hazard to everyone.
Let's say the cow had TB. The raccoons can eat off the cow, contract TB and then get into your cow's feed and spread TB to your cows. In Michigan, and other states, raccoons are found with TB.


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## forphase1 (Aug 5, 2010)

While I don't have cows, I do raise goats. We all lose animals occasionally, despite our best efforts. I've had two goats die this spring, and I certainly did not call anyone to dispose of the carcass nor did I waste valuable time and energy to bury the carcass. Instead I took it to a remote part of the farm and let nature take it's course. In a matter of days only a few bones remained. These were not human beings, nor were they family pets. They were livestock, there to provide meat/milk for my family. I'm not going to bury my tractor when if finally quits working. I'll park it somewhere and use it for parts and scrap it once everything usable has been taken. Why not let nature do what nature does best?


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## shagerman (Apr 10, 2008)

topside1 said:


> The owner pushed the dead cow into the creek to rot? Please, what drama, I've had enough for one day....Topside


... but it is the truth, i know the farm hand.


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## shagerman (Apr 10, 2008)

haypoint said:


> Dead animals left in the field are a hazard to everyone.
> Let's say the cow had TB. The raccoons can eat off the cow, contract TB and then get into your cow's feed and spread TB to your cows. In Michigan, and other states, raccoons are found with TB.


thank you... for posting this.. that is my point... the guy just doesn't care... about any one else.


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## PaulNKS (Jan 11, 2009)

shagerman said:


> i know the guy.. and he owns half of this town,, among st other things he does,,,


.... and you want to call and complain about the man that owns half the town? If you are telling the truth, then you are only inviting trouble for yourself. 

You need to get a life and stop trying to interfere in something that is none of your business.

How do you know how many head of cattle he has? Have you counted every one? How do you know that is the only 80 acres he has? If he is as wealthy as you think, he probably has several farms.

As far as calling the vet.. most cattlemen don't. It has nothing to do with the economics, but most cattlemen are able to do their own vet work. They call the vet, when they see something they've never seen or can't fix the problem. If you are raised with cattle, you can sometimes do as much and have as much experience as a new vet. lol

I'd say mind your own business if he isn't hurting you or your family, then it has nothing to do with you and should be none of your concern.


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## shagerman (Apr 10, 2008)

Plowpoint said:


> We kind of had this issue a few weeks ago on the big dairy farm in the family. Luckily we have 2 farms, one that houses our milking cows, and another, about 18 miles away that has our calfs and heifers.
> 
> A person found a dead calf in a stream and called the police. They showed up and as they were fishing the dead calf out of the stream, the school bus driver stops and asks what is going on. They said our farm had dumped a dead calf in the stream. He was like "No way. I know these guys and they don't have a single calf on this farm, it is on the other side of town."
> 
> ...


thank you my thoughts exactly.


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## shagerman (Apr 10, 2008)

PaulNKS said:


> .... and you want to call and complain about the man that owns half the town? If you are telling the truth, then you are only inviting trouble for yourself.
> 
> You need to get a life and stop trying to interfere in something that is none of your business.
> 
> ...


really... im not here to explain. my whole neighborhood. and i believe i do know whats right and wrong. and when it comes to animals.. look i asked a question out here.. i could tell you a whole lot more. but i am avoiding most of it. well i have cattle and oh yes i do. if there is trouble.. and i cant handle the situation. then the vet is called.and for the thought of the sake of the animals.. sorry. sir.. but in my heart i cant and wont look away.. ill keep my ears out and eyes and if this keeps going on. then i have no choice,,, sincerly .. he doesnt deserve to have these animals.. the hands he has. even say it.:cow::cow::cow::cow::cow::cow::cow::cow:


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## shagerman (Apr 10, 2008)

shagerman said:


> ok. here is some more facts.. the guy raises 70 or 80 head.. and one of the mothers was pushed into a creek... really... come on.. that creek also provides water for other animals on down the line. he loses a few and goes and buys more. a very vicious cycle i believe..and losing animals because he wont call a vet out to see what is wrong.. and just let the animal suffer,,, my opinion is oh hell no... his animals are out several times a year.. walking on the roads.. he usually gets them back in ,,,in a few days... fix the fence i say... i am really having a hard time even wanting to help him anymore.... chasing cows back in. he puts out 3 round bales for 80 head..plus calves... really... they are half starved... and i am so sick about this.. and if you talk to him... forget it. you may as well talk to the wall. .. and i have.. so now what? forget about it.. not gonna happen..he has about 80 acres...and it looks like crap right now also. and talking about expense.. oh how well i know.. but i do it because i want my animals healthy.. he doesnt... and the man is a millionaire.... i cant think of a reason why he wouldnt take care of them.. or on the other hand.bury them.


so he may as well have a puppy mill. and i am not a happy camper about those people either...


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## mekasmom (Jan 19, 2010)

PaulNKS said:


> .
> I'd say mind your own business if he isn't hurting you or your family, then it has nothing to do with you and should be none of your concern.


You are brave to post this. And you are right. 

And the truth is that cattle die. Livestock dies at times. It is not always from old age, and vets are not God. Even with vet care livestock dies. It is common, and acceptable, in most places to allow scavengers to clean up carrion.

And to the other poster..... What in the world makes you think eighty cattle is a "puppy" mill cattle style? Lots of places keep 100s of bovine.


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## tailwagging (Jan 6, 2005)

shagerman said:


> so he may as well have a puppy mill. and i am not a happy camper about those people either...


GEEE thanks!!!
I was reading along with you until you brought up the PM word.
You do know that it isn't illegal to breed and raise dogs? and that *everyone *who has a dog *breeding program *is *labeled by someone *as a PM?

if things continue to go the way they are, with that mind set, good luck trying to find a well bred dog in 10 years.


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## MO_cows (Aug 14, 2010)

There is absolutely no comparison between a puppy mill and cattle on pasture, that is ridiculous.

Again, if your neighbor is intentionally mistreating his cattle, get the law after him. If he isn't, but he just doesn't love them enough to suit you, get over it.


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## marytx (Dec 4, 2002)

We have heavy clay soil. Unless you have big equipment to do it with, which we don't, it would be very, very impractical to try to bury large animals when they die. Even my beloved goat went to the back for the coyotes. We have buried the dogs when they die, but it is hard work!

I doubt that a dead animal really cares that other animals eat its carcass.


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## tinknal (May 21, 2004)

shagerman said:


> so he may as well have a puppy mill. and i am not a happy camper about those people either...


Good grief, now you are quoting yourself!

Git over yerself Dude...................


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## CarolT (Mar 12, 2009)

OK, so someone hauls a carcass into a back field for coyotes. Now those coyotes are coming over their neighbors fence and devastating the goat herds and geese flocks of the neighbors... Yeah, no harm baiting them into the area with meat then leaving them to start hunting more. I'm starting to think people need to haul it close to their house and kill off coyotes that come after it. Let the vultures finish cleaning it up. Then they are the ones with the smell and predators coming close to their other livestock. Just my opinion...


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## SCRancher (Jan 11, 2011)

This is from the Agricultural Zoning in my area:


> You are hereby notified that the property you are purchasing is located in an agricultural zoning district. *You may be subject to inconvenience or discomfort from lawful agricultural operations.* Discomfort and inconveniences may include, but are not limited to, noise, odors, fumes, dust, smoke, insects, rodents, and/or the operation of machinery during any 24-hour period. One or more inconveniences may occur as a result of agricultural operations that are in compliance with existing laws and regulations and accepted customs and standards. *If you live or operate a use near an agricultural area, you should be prepared to accept such inconveniences or discomfort as a normal and necessary aspect of living in an area with strong rural character and an active agricultural sector. You are advised that the owners and operators of lawful agricultural operations are under no obligation to accommodate your decision to locate in an agricultural district and no county laws or ordinances exist to assist you in pursuing the termination of inconveniences or discomforts arising from lawful agricultural operations.*


My property is zoned Agricultural as is all the land bordering my land.

I do not like that you said a cow was in a creek and I would probably call someone about that because it pollutes the creek for everyone down stream. There are probably waterway laws that would apply but as for leaving a dead critter for the scavengers to clean up somewhere on his land not in a stream then it's not your concern.


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## tinknal (May 21, 2004)

CarolT said:


> OK, so someone hauls a carcass into a back field for coyotes. Now those coyotes are coming over their neighbors fence and devastating the goat herds and geese flocks of the neighbors... Yeah, no harm baiting them into the area with meat then leaving them to start hunting more. I'm starting to think people need to haul it close to their house and kill off coyotes that come after it. Let the vultures finish cleaning it up. Then they are the ones with the smell and predators coming close to their other livestock. Just my opinion...


Coyotes are territorial. This is like saying that planting a garden will cause more rabbits.


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## topside1 (Sep 23, 2005)

shagerman said:


> ... but it is the truth, i know the farm hand.


So let me get this straight, the millionaire neighbor forced his hired farm hand to drag a dead cow from the open field and place it into a running stream to rot? I'm guessing this was done to contaminate the town's water system and as we know he/she presently owns half the town. Oh I get it know, he/she wants to own the entire town through carcass trickery. Happily this will be my last bit of worthwhile input into this dreadful situation...

As Always, Good Luck


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## ErinP (Aug 23, 2007)

PaulNKS said:


> As far as calling the vet.. most cattlemen don't. It has nothing to do with the economics, but most cattlemen are able to do their own vet work. They call the vet, when they see something they've never seen or can't fix the problem.


True. 
All we've _ever_ taken in are C-sections, and even those are fairly rare when you have long, wiry arms like my favorite cowboy. 



MO_cows said:


> How much land does he have? Putting carcasses on a remote part of property is a fairly common practice.


Yep. Most large livestock operations have a dead pile. My uncles call theirs Gold Dust Canyon. lol We never named ours anything other than "The Dead Pile."

One of the ranches I used to drive through on my way to teach school a few years ago had a cow die right next to the road. She got downhill and no one found her soon enough to get her up. 
When she died, the owner didn't move her and after a couple of days I started taking a periodic photo of her. This is a cow at two days dead. This is a cow at 6 days dead. This is a cow at two weeks. Etc, etc. 
And because I had nothing but ranch kids in my little country school, those photos became part of a science unit! 


Regarding the original post, the whole story sounds odd...


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## mekasmom (Jan 19, 2010)

ErinP said:


> Regarding the original post, the whole story sounds odd...


Honestly, it actually sounds kind of like jealousy with a bit of gossip and exaggeration sprinkled in. I'm sorry the neighbor appears to have more financially than the original poster. But that doesn't make the guy evil at heart.


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## gone-a-milkin (Mar 4, 2007)

ErinP, your science unit is hilarious *to me!* 

Out here we call the boneyard "The Hinterlands".
No neighbors can see it though so maybe that is the BEST plan?
Put it where no 'concerned' neighbors have to watch the decomp happen. :shrug:

Funny how it is a non-issue when it is a roadkilled deer or elk along the highway, instead of a cow in the field.

Meat is meat to the carrion eaters whether we are emotionally attached or not. :shrug:


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## Chief Cook (Apr 24, 2011)

There "used" to be a small dairy op not too far from me that made it a practise to pile up their dead cows. Normally I wouldn't have a problem with that, but these folks were piling them up next to a fence. On the other side of the fence were three or four houses. Talk about yucko. I can't even imagine how bad that smelled when the temp hit 112. The flies were just beyond out of control around that place. Needless to say the folks living down wind put in a call to the County Health Dept. All they had to do at that time was to pick up the phone and a man in a big truck would come and haul them for free. Sometimes I do wonder "what were they thinking?" We see dead animals in the pasture and don't think a thing about it, but piling them up next to the neighbors fence is asking for it.


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## machinistmike (Oct 16, 2011)

There are 2 phone #'s you can call:
1-800-MindYourOwnBusiness if no one answers try
1-800-CryMeARiver


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## Macybaby (Jun 16, 2006)

sort of off topic, but for those of you that have dealt with dead animals in the pasture, do you find that animals killed by a lightining strike are left alone by the larger scavengers? I've had several of the ranchers in this area say that happens.

The practice around here is to drag them off so they are not in plain sight, though on summer one was left near the interstate fence and since I drive that route every day, I got to watch over the summer as it decomposted. It was a long slow process, as the scavengers left it alone. I suppose the small insects and rodents helped, but over time it got so only the bones were there, and good order. Even the cattle had left it completely alone until it was nothing but bones, then they walked over the bones and eventually you couldn't see them. I can still tell where it was as there is a spot of lush thick grass where it happened, though each year it's been less noticeable and by now its harder to pick out.


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## marytx (Dec 4, 2002)

ErinP said:


> Yep. Most large livestock operations have a dead pile. My uncles call theirs Gold Dust Canyon. lol We never named ours anything other than "The Dead Pile."
> ...


We call ours The Place of Bones.


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## springvalley (Jun 23, 2009)

I remember the day when the meat wagon would pay you a little bit for your dead animals. Then they just picked them up for free, and now they want an arm and a leg to pick them up. I don`t have them come anymore either, we take them out back and cover them with a little bit of dirt. Putting them next to a fence with neighbors in full view would be just dumb. Some people just don`t play with a full deck, or a couple sandwiches short of a picnic lunch, and some are just onry. > Thanks Marc


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## tailwagging (Jan 6, 2005)

shagerman, I am sorry for jumping on you yesterday.
please forgive me.
It is just when we see non ARs use the term Puppy mill it gets all of us breeders (not just dog breeders) upset.
it is equal to the "n" word to us who work so hard to improve our chosen breed.
It is now being used with others, bird mill bunny mill.......I have even seen chicken mill.
I myself can't see a big difference in how we should treat livestock and pets. both should receive the best care,love and time we can afford to give them.

I will say that I am with you on this. if you take on an animal you should be willing to try (with in your means) to care for it and keep it healthy. and yes take care of it if it dies.
I want a riding/driving horse but I can't. only because vetting it is too much $$ and if it dies we would have to hire someone to dig and where to dig?? maybe silly to some to think that way but... that is just me... the Queen of "what ifs"


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## shagerman (Apr 10, 2008)

tailwagging said:


> shagerman, I am sorry for jumping on you yesterday.
> please forgive me.
> It is just when we see non ARs use the term Puppy mill it gets all of us breeders (not just dog breeders) upset.
> it is equal to the "n" word to us who work so hard to improve our chosen breed.
> ...




its ok.. i just used that term loosely.. i just wanted everyone to understand something about this guy. and i am sorry for putting it in those terms...


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## shagerman (Apr 10, 2008)

look everyone. i am with my animals. most of the time. and i have had animals die.. but they are buried with respect. they have given me a lot of enjoyment and my cattle i love to death. along with my pigs and chickens and dogs and cats. maybe i have went to far on this subject. but what i wrote was all correct. and i have a hard time with people who abuse animals because of stupidity.i work as a bartender.. i make due with what i have.. and i make sure my animals are fed well. ill go without before they do....but this guy just makes me want to puke. i have sold animals out here before and they will all tell you.. that i do take care of them.. and i have a healthy relationship with my animals. ..all i was asking was what to do...


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## shagerman (Apr 10, 2008)

mekasmom said:


> You are brave to post this. And you are right.
> 
> And the truth is that cattle die. Livestock dies at times. It is not always from old age, and vets are not God. Even with vet care livestock dies. It is common, and acceptable, in most places to allow scavengers to clean up carrion.
> 
> And to the other poster..... What in the world makes you think eighty cattle is a "puppy" mill cattle style? Lots of places keep 100s of bovine.


thanks. but bravery had nothing to do with this.. anger did.. and i am the one who said puppy mill.. very loosely.. just to say this guy looses them and buys more... maybe there's a underlying problem over there... i don't know about.. but i tried to make the point the wrong way.what really bothered me is the cow in the creek...


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## shagerman (Apr 10, 2008)

machinistmike said:


> There are 2 phone #'s you can call:
> 1-800-MindYourOwnBusiness if no one answers try
> 1-800-CryMeARiver


REALLY.you should be totally ashamed of yourself.:cow::cow::cow::cow::cow::cow::cow::cow::cow:


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## shagerman (Apr 10, 2008)

topside1 said:


> So let me get this straight, the millionaire neighbor forced his hired farm hand to drag a dead cow from the open field and place it into a running stream to rot? I'm guessing this was done to contaminate the town's water system and as we know he/she presently owns half the town. Oh I get it know, he/she wants to own the entire town through carcass trickery. Happily this will be my last bit of worthwhile input into this dreadful situation...
> 
> As Always, Good Luck


so your one that likes to turn a story around the way you want to hear it.. really.. keep reading at least i have a heart,:cow::cow::cow::cow:


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## PaulNKS (Jan 11, 2009)

shagerman said:


> thanks. but bravery had nothing to do with this.. anger did.. and i am the one who said puppy mill.. very loosely.. just to say this guy looses them and buys more... maybe there's a underlying problem over there... i don't know about.. but i tried to make the point the wrong way.what really bothered me is the cow in the creek...


she was not calling you brave. She quoted me and was saying that I was brave for telling you that your neighbor is none of your concern and what he does is none of your business if he's not hurting you, your family, or your land.


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## PaulNKS (Jan 11, 2009)

I think you make a mountain out of a molehill and need to let it rest.


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## shagerman (Apr 10, 2008)

PaulNKS said:


> she was not calling you brave. She quoted me and was saying that I was brave for telling you that your neighbor is none of your concern and what he does is none of your business if he's not hurting you, your family, or your land.


as they say it all runs downhill. guess who is down hill. and their creek. runs downhill to my creek. i don't want my animals sick because of some jerk.


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## tailwagging (Jan 6, 2005)

shagerman said:


> its ok.. i just used that term loosely.. i just wanted everyone to understand something about this guy. and i am sorry for putting it in those terms...


could you please, next time, for all of our animal owning sakes not use the PM word? or any other ARs "m" words.


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## Cliff (Jun 30, 2007)

Maybe part of the problem is your evident perception that livestock should be pets. Livestock is livestock. You mention your "healthy relationship" with your animals. Where did you get the idea that we should have relationships with our livestock? My relationship with my livestock consists of me providing for their needs including caring for them when they're sick, within reason. If it's something that will cost more than the animal is worth to fix they are culled. Occasionally I will have a favorite which will occasionally afford that animal a little more latitude but in the end they are farm animals, not pets and not my family. This is real life, not a disney movie.

"Buried with respect?" Again, they are animals.

Totally not fair for you to expect your neighbor to share your perception of how his "relationship" should be with his animals. And for you to threaten to call someone and report him is pretty distasteful in all honesty. I'm glad you aren't my neighbor. Unless the cows are starving to death, like I said before, it's really none of your business. And you haven't indicated that this is the case.


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## pancho (Oct 23, 2006)

Lots of differences in a farmer who makes their living from animals and a pet owner.


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## myersfarm (Dec 24, 2004)

OK from the movie ...Outlaw Josey Wales...the buzzards have to eat just like the WORMS....I see NO difference..one of the main reasons we bury is so the last memory we have is them all nice..and out of mind.....if we have to see them decay or know stuff was eating them that makes it hard if you really cared for them.....but we all know what happens to them UNDER GROUND ALSO Yes dogs I bury other stuff I take to the woods....BUT it will be hard for me to not bury my Horse...but still worms


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## ErinP (Aug 23, 2007)

myersfarm said:


> BUT it will be hard for me to not bury my Horse...but still worms


Me too. Then again, my horses _are_ pets... 

I agree with pancho; I think what we're seeing is that division that shows up here fairly regularly between those who treat their cattle like pets and those who treat them like livestock. :shrug:


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## shagerman (Apr 10, 2008)

ErinP said:


> Me too. Then again, my horses _are_ pets...
> 
> I agree with pancho; I think what we're seeing is that division that shows up here fairly regularly between those who treat their cattle like pets and those who treat them like livestock. :shrug:


exactly right there is a division that does show up regularly... and i believe some are wrong. and some are right. i guess alot of it is how you were brought up..


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## shagerman (Apr 10, 2008)

Cliff said:


> Maybe part of the problem is your evident perception that livestock should be pets. Livestock is livestock. You mention your "healthy relationship" with your animals. Where did you get the idea that we should have relationships with our livestock? My relationship with my livestock consists of me providing for their needs including caring for them when they're sick, within reason. If it's something that will cost more than the animal is worth to fix they are culled. Occasionally I will have a favorite which will occasionally afford that animal a little more latitude but in the end they are farm animals, not pets and not my family. This is real life, not a disney movie.
> 
> "Buried with respect?" Again, they are animals.
> 
> maybe you shouldn't be reading into more than you are.. i have a healthy relationship with my animals.. yes i do. and what i mean by that.. is i am with them all day.. and i am out with them.. checking fences and they do follow me around.. none would hurt me. i yell from across the field they come. i make sure they don't have cuts abrasions and such.i check there teats for possible injuries and they hold still. so if i am doing something wrong then let me know.. my husband cant even get that done...and sometimes i find stuff that isn't right. and it gets taken care of immediately.. even if i have to call a vet.


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## dlskidmore (Apr 18, 2012)

shagerman said:


> Cliff said:
> 
> 
> > i make sure they don't have cuts abrasions and such.i check there teats for possible injuries and they hold still. so if i am doing something wrong then let me know..
> ...


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## ErinP (Aug 23, 2007)

shagerman said:


> i guess alot of it is how you were brought up..


I doubt it. It's probably exactly like pancho said; there's a big difference between those who make a living from their livestock and those who have a few pets. Not saying there's anything wrong with having pets btw, but don't expect me to take 800 head of mama cows and call them by name or check them daily for cuts and abrasions...


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## Cliff (Jun 30, 2007)

Right, it's not wrong of you to make pets out of your livestock. To each his own as long as we aren't neglectful or doing harm. What is wrong is you expecting everyone else should do the same and you implying that we are somehow wrong or unethical in not doing so. And implying that we weren't raised right because we don't make pets our of our livestock? Come on, you are really crossing some lines here. Best quit before you bury yourself any deeper. Your whole attitude is remarkably offensive.


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## PaulNKS (Jan 11, 2009)

Cliff said:


> Right, it's not wrong of you to make pets out of your livestock. To each his own as long as we aren't neglectful or doing harm. What is wrong is you expecting everyone else should do the same and you implying that we are somehow wrong or unethical in not doing so. And implying that we weren't raised right because we don't make pets our of our livestock? Come on, you are really crossing some lines here. Best quit before you bury yourself any deeper. Your whole attitude is remarkably offensive.


+1

From someone raised in ag, I too, find it offensive when people have this attitude.

I like the fact that city people want to move to the country and give it a shot.... I have a hard time believing that some would not realize they can't bring their city ways with them and expect things to change. When you move to a truly rural area, you are moving into an area that has a longstanding traditional culture that is so different from the city. You can't expect this new culture to change to suit what you THOUGHT it should be. That is what is offensive about the whole attitude.

I have seen so many times when a farmer/rancher gets called on because he is starving his animals... only to see the person complaining laughed at. When cattle are allowed to grub and graze and are in lactation, they will look a bit thin. If a cow is too fat, she will have trouble conceiving. If she is too fat at calving time, she will most likely have calving troubles.

I still stand by my point that the OP needs to mind his/her own business and not try to change a way of life in a culture to which he/she was not raised in and obviously does not understand or even comprehend.


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## shagerman (Apr 10, 2008)

PaulNKS said:


> +1
> 
> From someone raised in ag, I too, find it offensive when people have this attitude.
> 
> ...


i was raised on a farm. only i couldn't do anything because i was too young.. later on i got to feed the pigs. then the other animals

. and i was raised right..


later on it was turned into city land.. then in my 20s i was back on a farm. then off again. maybe my judgement isn't quite what other people want or like. but i do what i have to do... so now i am going to be bashed .. not at all... and if you don't like what i have to say.. then don't come back...its as simple as that.:cow::cow::cow:


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## marytx (Dec 4, 2002)

shagerman said:


> as they say it all runs downhill. guess who is down hill. and their creek. runs downhill to my creek. i don't want my animals sick because of some jerk.


You started out this thread by complaining that your neighbor left dead animals in the field for coyotes, and somewhere, maybe halfway through the discussion changed it to this thing of the cow being in the creek.

If a cow in the creek was the problem, that's what you should address. I feel like we are all over bunny trails with this whole discussion, since you seem to be changing it as we go along.

If there is, in fact, a cow decaying in the creek, you should call the neighbor whose cow it is, so that he can take care of the problem. No one wants an animal decaying in their water.

We had one to die in one of our ponds a few years back, when we had the fields under lease. We called the owner of the cow, who was sad for his loss, and came out almost immediately to take care of the problem. He dragged the animal to the back of our property (which is NOT near anyone's home) and the coyotes and buzzards took care of it in short order.

I do not believe that anyone deliberately has left an animal in a running creek.


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## shagerman (Apr 10, 2008)

Cliff said:


> Right, it's not wrong of you to make pets out of your livestock. To each his own as long as we aren't neglectful or doing harm. What is wrong is you expecting everyone else should do the same and you implying that we are somehow wrong or unethical in not doing so. And implying that we weren't raised right because we don't make pets our of our livestock? Come on, you are really crossing some lines here. Best quit before you bury yourself any deeper. Your whole attitude is remarkably offensive.


you are putting words in my mouth, i never said everyone should do as i do. what i said was this certain person. shouldn't be leaving a dead cow in a creek. get it right.attitude.. you really haven't seen that yet..:catfight:. and may i say if you don't like what i have to say. stay out of this completely. i asked a question ... out here... and it has ran in several parallels ..which is interesting. i once heard that a farmer is the closest to gods heart... so adam must of been one hell of a guy..:cow::cow::cow:


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## shagerman (Apr 10, 2008)

mary said:


> You started out this thread by complaining that your neighbor left dead animals in the field for coyotes, and somewhere, maybe halfway through the discussion changed it to this thing of the cow being in the creek.
> 
> If a cow in the creek was the problem, that's what you should address. I feel like we are all over bunny trails with this whole discussion, since you seem to be changing it as we go along.
> 
> ...


 



i have went and talked to him.. i may as well have talked to a wall. and yes the cow is still there.in the creek. i don't care if one is in a field.. that's their choice.. i bury mine. because of the stink... and its been in the 90s up here.
i am giving only a few facts out here. if i gave it all you guys and gals would want to puke also. i said enough to stir a beehive.. and that's not what i wanted. i just wanted a simple answer.. but undoubtedly there is none.


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## bigbluegrass (Jan 11, 2011)

Does the creek have water in it now? That makes a big difference to me.


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## shagerman (Apr 10, 2008)

Maybe i should started this whole thing. With what if and the situation? I bet on the odds it would have came out differently. But lesson has been learned. On how to put things out here.. And it has been interesting... But i wanted was a simple answer.. And i didn't get one.. Instead i got a beehive..


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## dlskidmore (Apr 18, 2012)

shagerman said:


> he has just left them out in the field for the coyotes





shagerman said:


> ok. here is some more facts.. the guy raises 70 or 80 head.. and one of the mothers was pushed into a creek... really... come on..





shagerman said:


> you are putting words in my mouth, i never said everyone should do as i do. what i said was this certain person. shouldn't be leaving a dead cow in a creek. get it right.attitude.. you really haven't seen that yet..:catfight:.


No words in your mouth. Direct quotes. Your first post said nothing about a creek. Later when people said this is normal, you said a cow had been pushed into a creek.

If this was just a complaint about the purity of your water supply, then it should have been part of the first post and a major part of your replies instead of going on and on about practices that sound normal.

I'm guessing the guy did nothing to help you because you had a bad attitude and he sees no advantage in being a good neighbor to you. Complainers will keep whining whatever you do, maybe if he annoys you enough you'll move away and he'll get a more friendly neighbor he will move cows out of the creek for.

Don't help him when his cows get out. If he really needs your help he'll make overtures to regain your friendship.


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## PaulNKS (Jan 11, 2009)

shagerman said:


> one of my neighbors.. which is rich. says that if he loses 10 calves a year it wont hurt him... gggggggggggggggrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr:sob: well in the last month he has lost a few and also has lost the mothers. but instead of calling the rendering truck. he has just left them out in the field for the coyotes, i really want to call on him. but who do you call? and this guy just makes me want to puke.. never calls a vet.. for anything,,, i just feel so sorry for the animals.


That is your opening post. I see nothing about creek or water. You made it appear that you were angry because he can afford to lose cattle and when he does, he doesn't call the meat truck. Then you ask who to call. The majority of us told you not to call anyone. It was part of the way of life and was none of your concern. 

Then you added the creek into and then referred to them being half starved. I think the entire thing boils down to the fact that he is where you wish you could be and your jealousy and envy has prompted you to write this and try to find a way to make him miserable.

Then you say,



> but i do what i have to do... so now i am going to be bashed .. not at all... and if you don't like what i have to say.. then don't come back...its as simple as that.


If you post something to a public forum asking opinions, don't get angry with the responses. I have as much right to voice my opinion here as you do....

I still say you should just let it go, unless there is one in the creek, if that creek doesn't end on his property. Then you should speak with him first. If that doesn't work, then you should contact your state department of health. .

...if there really is one in the creek.


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## Cliff (Jun 30, 2007)

You did get a simple answer, several times. The answer was and still is that if the cows aren't starving to death then mind your own business. You don't seem to want to hear that but that is our answer.

I will repeat that it is not illegal not to call a vet. Who do you think you would call and what would you say? You have no case for anything unless there really is a cow rotting in the creek. Even then they will just ask the guy to move the carcass. You aren't going to gain anything by calling anyone except that you will be laughed at and considered a silly meddling woman who has no clue about real farm life. No I am not calling you names, I'm telling what the good ole boys will think of you. In fact that's probably why the neighbor is already ignoring you. And if you do call someone and raise a stink now about him not calling the vet, cows rotting in the field etc, if you ever do have anything valid to complain about they will remember and not take you seriously.

If you had posted this as a what if scenario you would've gotten the same responses.


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## bigbluegrass (Jan 11, 2011)

A month ago I had animal control called on me because I had a cow that was thin. She was a milking Jersey cow that had developed a bad leg. Animal control said I HAD to get a vet out to look at her within 24 hours. This cow, was very much a family pet and family milk cow. She was in a pasture of grass that was belly deep on her. She had plenty of water and plenty of food. However, three people (whose names I cannot get) decided she was not taken care of properly. Could have been neighbors of mine. So the vet came out and looked at her. Said he couldn't tell what the cause was, but her ankle was swollen and sore. It could have been caused by some trauma or she may have cancer or ... this list is endless. So I was given two choices - kill her or take her to town for slaughter. I ended up shooting the cow. The vet bill cost over $100. She was a lactating Jersey and yes they get a bit thin when milking heavy. The hurt ankle slowed her down and caused more weight loss for sure. But she was taken care of. I never got to face my accuser. There was no trial. No one even asked any relevant questions. She sure wasn't malnourished. Cows eat grass - I doubt the folks who called even realized she was standing in a field of food. I just think in the land of the free and home of the brave, people need to be more real. Part of freedom is that people are free to say and do stupid things. For me it goes back to the golden rule and you can solve a lot of problems with that simple rule - DO UNTO OTHERS AS YOU WOULD HAVE THEM DO UNTO YOU.

I hope that puts things into perspective. As for my advice, like I said before - as hard as it is for you - you need to bite your tongue. The only exception would be the cow in an actively flowing creek in which the water supply will be contaminated. If the creek is dry - I am sure the buzzards and coyotes will have it cleaned up soon if it isn't already. The one I shot was gone in a week. Yes, even the family pet cow got set out for the critters to get at. Our ground is clay and rock. A hole big enough to properly bury a cow will take some heavy equipment, which I don't own. You sure can't do it with a shovel. Like I said, the critters had her gone in under a week. Right now you can't even find bones, most of them have been drug off.

Just learn to look the other way. Everyone has their own way of doing things. He isn't going to listen to you (as you said) and he isn't going to change what he does. Bite your tongue and look the other way. Move to a new place if it bothers you that much.


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## Ken Scharabok (May 11, 2002)

OK folks. Let's all step back and take a few deep breaths. Post is starting to go a little too much personal.

Ken Scharabok
Forum Coordinator


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## Cliff (Jun 30, 2007)

bigbluegrass said:


> A month ago I had animal control called on me because I had a cow that was thin. She was a milking Jersey cow that had developed a bad leg. Animal control said I HAD to get a vet out to look at her within 24 hours. This cow, was very much a family pet and family milk cow. She was in a pasture of grass that was belly deep on her. She had plenty of water and plenty of food. However, three people (whose names I cannot get) decided she was not taken care of properly. Could have been neighbors of mine. So the vet came out and looked at her. Said he couldn't tell what the cause was, but her ankle was swollen and sore. It could have been caused by some trauma or she may have cancer or ... this list is endless. So I was given two choices - kill her or take her to town for slaughter. I ended up shooting the cow.


So the meddling do-gooders caused you to have to kill your family milk cow. That is horrible. I sure hope they know what they "accomplished." If I were you I'd make sure everyone in the area knew.

To the op, this is a prime example of why country folk really really hate when people who don't understand farming meddle in things that aren't their business.


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## PaulNKS (Jan 11, 2009)

bigbluegrass said:


> A month ago I had animal control called on me because I had a cow that was thin. She was a milking Jersey cow that had developed a bad leg. Animal control said I HAD to get a vet out to look at her within 24 hours. This cow, was very much a family pet and family milk cow. She was in a pasture of grass that was belly deep on her. She had plenty of water and plenty of food. However, three people (whose names I cannot get) decided she was not taken care of properly. Could have been neighbors of mine. So the vet came out and looked at her. Said he couldn't tell what the cause was, but her ankle was swollen and sore. It could have been caused by some trauma or she may have cancer or ... this list is endless. So I was given two choices - kill her or take her to town for slaughter. I ended up shooting the cow. The vet bill cost over $100. She was a lactating Jersey and yes they get a bit thin when milking heavy. The hurt ankle slowed her down and caused more weight loss for sure. But she was taken care of. I never got to face my accuser. There was no trial. No one even asked any relevant questions. She sure wasn't malnourished. Cows eat grass - I doubt the folks who called even realized she was standing in a field of food. I just think in the land of the free and home of the brave, people need to be more real. Part of freedom is that people are free to say and do stupid things. For me it goes back to the golden rule and you can solve a lot of problems with that simple rule - DO UNTO OTHERS AS YOU WOULD HAVE THEM DO UNTO YOU.
> 
> I hope that puts things into perspective. As for my advice, like I said before - as hard as it is for you - you need to bite your tongue. The only exception would be the cow in an actively flowing creek in which the water supply will be contaminated. If the creek is dry - I am sure the buzzards and coyotes will have it cleaned up soon if it isn't already. The one I shot was gone in a week. Yes, even the family pet cow got set out for the critters to get at. Our ground is clay and rock. A hole big enough to properly bury a cow will take some heavy equipment, which I don't own. You sure can't do it with a shovel. Like I said, the critters had her gone in under a week. Right now you can't even find bones, most of them have been drug off.
> 
> Just learn to look the other way. Everyone has their own way of doing things. He isn't going to listen to you (as you said) and he isn't going to change what he does. Bite your tongue and look the other way. Move to a new place if it bothers you that much.


I would have found another vet and/or fought animal control tooth and nail.


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## bigbluegrass (Jan 11, 2011)

PaulNKS said:


> I would have found another vet and/or fought animal control tooth and nail.


That would have cost even more money and to what end? It was a great time for a lesson to my kids and I think a lesson to those on here as well. I doubt my kids ever forget the trauma caused because some people thought they were doing the right thing. If those folks had took a moment to ponder the golden rule or realized they only had partial facts, the outcome may have been very different. She could have had a full recovery. Now it is very unlikely:grin:

Cliff - I hear you! I did not make a big deal out of it. Not even sure who to complain to. This is a very rural area, but we are right off the highway. People could be a few states away and have just been passing through. Or they could be my neighbors..

Now dang it, Ken said cool it!:huh:


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## Ken Scharabok (May 11, 2002)

This is a second warning. Calm down folks or I will either lock or delete thread.

Ken Scharabok
Forum Coordinator


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## pancho (Oct 23, 2006)

bigbluegrass said:


> A month ago I had animal control called on me because I had a cow that was thin. She was a milking Jersey cow that had developed a bad leg. Animal control said I HAD to get a vet out to look at her within 24 hours. This cow, was very much a family pet and family milk cow. She was in a pasture of grass that was belly deep on her. She had plenty of water and plenty of food. However, three people (whose names I cannot get) decided she was not taken care of properly. Could have been neighbors of mine. So the vet came out and looked at her. Said he couldn't tell what the cause was, but her ankle was swollen and sore. It could have been caused by some trauma or she may have cancer or ... this list is endless. So I was given two choices - kill her or take her to town for slaughter. I ended up shooting the cow. The vet bill cost over $100. She was a lactating Jersey and yes they get a bit thin when milking heavy. The hurt ankle slowed her down and caused more weight loss for sure. But she was taken care of. I never got to face my accuser. There was no trial. No one even asked any relevant questions. She sure wasn't malnourished. Cows eat grass - I doubt the folks who called even realized she was standing in a field of food. I just think in the land of the free and home of the brave, people need to be more real. Part of freedom is that people are free to say and do stupid things. For me it goes back to the golden rule and you can solve a lot of problems with that simple rule - DO UNTO OTHERS AS YOU WOULD HAVE THEM DO UNTO YOU.
> 
> I hope that puts things into perspective. As for my advice, like I said before - as hard as it is for you - you need to bite your tongue. The only exception would be the cow in an actively flowing creek in which the water supply will be contaminated. If the creek is dry - I am sure the buzzards and coyotes will have it cleaned up soon if it isn't already. The one I shot was gone in a week. Yes, even the family pet cow got set out for the critters to get at. Our ground is clay and rock. A hole big enough to properly bury a cow will take some heavy equipment, which I don't own. You sure can't do it with a shovel. Like I said, the critters had her gone in under a week. Right now you can't even find bones, most of them have been drug off.
> 
> Just learn to look the other way. Everyone has their own way of doing things. He isn't going to listen to you (as you said) and he isn't going to change what he does. Bite your tongue and look the other way. Move to a new place if it bothers you that much.


It is real hard for me to understand people who think they are helping when the animal they supposedly care so much about is killed.

Do these people think the cow is better off now?


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## MO_cows (Aug 14, 2010)

I still don't get why the cow had to be killed. The vet came out, gave their professional opinion that the cow was not being abused/neglected, so why wasn't there some time allowed to see if her condition could be improved? 

If the cow had to be put down, that is like acknowledging that whoever made the report was right, she was actually in that bad of shape. Please understand I'm not accusing, just trying to understand it.


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## shagerman (Apr 10, 2008)

Ken if you see this please delete it.. It has went way to far out of what i was trying to accomplish... Its beginning to be a 3 ring circus, and that's not what i wanted at all.


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## Ken Scharabok (May 11, 2002)

I will lock it. There were some quite valid opinions expressed and some venting done as well.


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