# Alpaca Toenails?



## olivehill (Aug 17, 2009)

First I'll apologize for posting an alpaca toenail post in an arts forum, but since we don't have an alpaca forum I thought the fiber folks who would have the answers I need probably hang out here. I hope that's okay. 

We brought home a couple of alpacas today whose toenails are overgrown. I've read up, studied diagrams and watched videos. Alpacas are new to us, but we have lots of livestock experience and I feel confident going into our first trimming with them, but I have one question. Because they're very overgrown would it be best to trim them in a few stages the first time, rather than taking them down all at once? I'm just wondering if I take them all off at once if they might come up a little sore?


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## gone-a-milkin (Mar 4, 2007)

I dont have alpacas, but have trimmed lots of hooves on smaller critters.
The rule is to go down until you see a bit of color, then stop.
As soon as you find live tissue is close, even things up and call it good.
Just be sure the feet are clean and it is easy to see. 

I think you will do fine.

You can always cut things shorter, but you cant cut them longer (just like lumber!).
Do what you are comfortable with and then go at it again in a few days if they are still too long.

Good luck and happy fiber animals to you! :buds:


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## olivehill (Aug 17, 2009)

Thanks. That's pretty much what I was thinking but wanted to make sure I wasn't missing something. I've got experience with pig and horse hooves and DH has experience with cow hooves but Alpacas will be a new adventure.


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## gone-a-milkin (Mar 4, 2007)

I admire my neighbors llama over the fence. He is my very closest neighbor, with 'his' herd of sheep.
They sure do think differently from other types of stock. 
I find them fascinating, the way they watch and can 'read' your intent. 
More like horses than goats (for example).

I tell everyone that he works for me: keeping an eye peeled for predators. 
Not much gets by his alert eyes and ears on that long swivelly neck. :teehee:


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## Marchwind (May 10, 2002)

I cut them as I would for my goats. Do as GAM suggests, little bits at a time and look. Are they used to being handled? Keep in mind that they fight with their feet (trample and kick) They are very agile. My Llamas hated having their legs touched,as well as their heads. We usually left a halter on them at all times, they were fine being lead. I used Garden shears (really sharp and used only for hooves) Their nails are a bit softer than goats or sheep. I also used a rasp or hoof grater. 

Be careful and go slowly.


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## olivehill (Aug 17, 2009)

They're a bit rusty on their handling skills but do know how. They didn't want to be caught when we went to pick them up, but once we had a hold of them they didn't give any trouble, and the trouble they gave before we caught them was very tame. Mostly just refusing to be herded into the trailer. Once cornered one did kick out a little bit, but he didn't seem terribly committed to it either, just a little kick out but seemed more of a "I really DON'T like this" kind of a warning than anything. Both trailered well and have been well-behaved since arriving. I left the halters on them yesterday "just in case" but will take them them off after I'm done clipping up their toenails today. The previous owner gave me alpaca toenail clippers that don't look like they've ever been used so hopefully those will work well.


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## Forerunner (Mar 23, 2007)

Having some years horseshoeing professionally under my belt, I will add that, every foundered horse or pony I ever trimmed was already sore enough, and I always took their neglected skids all the way back to square one. Every one of them seemed mighty thankful for the gesture. On a first trim with a new animal, I might not cut until I see evidence of living material, however, lest I was sure of my skills and knew exactly what I was looking for.


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## carellama (Nov 12, 2007)

here you go
http://www.shagbarkridge.com/info/feet.html 
This web site has tons of good info

Just an added note be careful leaving the halter on your animals. I have had 2 personal bad experiences. The camelid nose is soft and unfortunately I had a halter embed itself in the poor animals nose. I felt so bad and wanted to pass this on. Besides they are such curious animals that they can get hung up with them on.


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## Marchwind (May 10, 2002)

Good point Carellama! I always checked mine regularly.

Hey Olivehill, let us know ho0w it goes. And post pictures of the new kids  we love critter photos too.


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## mamajohnson (Nov 27, 2002)

Congrats on your alpaca! I have zero advice, I have only trimmed goats hooves. I have trimmed a until I see pink the do again later when I have received one very overgrown.
I too would like to request pictures. I have a very soft spot in my heart for alpaca. Maybe someday I can adopt one.


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## AverageJo (Sep 24, 2010)

We raise alpacas and have a few girls that have fast growing tonails. We trim them in the spring during shearing on our table and in the fall, if needed. You've gotten some good advice here. Just take it slow with a little at a time. One hint though... Do at least two at a time, either the front or the back. If you do one side, front and back, you should do the other side as well, even if the alpaca doesn't like it. Another hint: If they're sqirmy or kicking if you try it standing up, get them in the 'cush' position (laying down with their feet tucked under them) and then have someone keep them down by pushing on the front shoulders. Then slip a foot out from under them just enough so you can get to the toes. You can roll them onto their side, but then you have all four feet able to kick you. That's do-able as well if you have folks to help hold the feet you're not working on and someone to hold the head down (or tie the halter down).


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## olivehill (Aug 17, 2009)

Thanks all. I'll get some pictures in a bit. 

Carellama -- That's actually one of the sites I'd read and yes, I'm aware of the anatomy and danger. Like I said they were left on when they were first put in their paddock yesterday in case they decided to try to get out. They've been perfectly behaved however, so as soon as I get those toenails clipped today the halters can come off.


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## Callieslamb (Feb 27, 2007)

I don't know if this might be something to watch for in alpacas, but in the wet, my sheep need more attention to their feet than in the summer. I hope this will lessen when the ground freezes.


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## olivehill (Aug 17, 2009)

Callie -- that's what all the reading I was doing last night said, too. So it does seem to be the same. When the ground is soft there's nothing to wear the toenails away so they just grow and grow. Some of the sites mentioned putting rock or concrete with a rough surface down in high traffic areas -- such as by their water trough -- to help keep the nails worn down. Maybe that would work for your sheep, too?


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## olivehill (Aug 17, 2009)

Well, toenail clipping will have to wait a bit longer. They aren't too sure of us touching them all over yet. The calmer of the two is okay with neck and head pets, but when I moved around the side to pet his body he kept walking sideways to get out of arm's reach. The other would really prefer you not touch him at all, but will tolerate neck pets if he must. So we cut up some carrots, put them on lead and bribed them for all-over pets. It worked great for the calmer of the two and we made some great progress, but the other doesn't seem impressed by the carrots. He just sniffed and turned up his nose so I'll try again with apples with him and repeat with carrots again tomorrow with the other.


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## PKBoo (Apr 10, 2008)

olivehill said:


> I'll try again with apples with him and repeat with carrots again tomorrow with the other.


Make sure you cut them up very small! The first time one of our alpacas choked, I thought he was a goner. We give them a small amount of grain every day, and in the beginning they were 'wolfing' it down in competition, and some would choke. SCARY!!! One coughed and choked and actually spit up. I was ready to try Heimlich 

Thankfully they've calmed down a LOT


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## olivehill (Aug 17, 2009)

We did. And will.


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## Callieslamb (Feb 27, 2007)

olivehill said:


> Callie -- that's what all the reading I was doing last night said, too. So it does seem to be the same. When the ground is soft there's nothing to wear the toenails away so they just grow and grow. .....


The wet also keeps them soft and more prone to cracking if they are overgrown. Dampness also harbors the bacteria that causes foot rot and foot scald. 



PKBoo said:


> .......I was ready to try Heimlich ....


If you ever do this, I really hope you get a video...for instructional purposes only, you understand.


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## carellama (Nov 12, 2007)

olivehill said:


> Well, toenail clipping will have to wait a bit longer. They aren't too sure of us touching them all over yet. The calmer of the two is okay with neck and head pets, but when I moved around the side to pet his body he kept walking sideways to get out of arm's reach. The other would really prefer you not touch him at all, but will tolerate neck pets if he must. So we cut up some carrots, put them on lead and bribed them for all-over pets. It worked great for the calmer of the two and we made some great progress, but the other doesn't seem impressed by the carrots. He just sniffed and turned up his nose so I'll try again with apples with him and repeat with carrots again tomorrow with the other.


In my experience they never get used to you touching them. After a kick that rattled my teeth while shearing them standing, I now sedate them with Rompum and torbugesic(check my spelling). Expensive but worth everybit of it. Otherwise you have to throw them to the ground and tie their front feet and back feet together and stretch them out to secure them so that they cannot kick. They can really hurt you with their neurotic behavior. take care and be careful


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## Marchwind (May 10, 2002)

Carellama that sounds awful. When I had my Llamas (I had two guys and they were very friendly) I was told to clip them with scissors rather than shearing. The person who told me this said it would create less guard hairs. I was able to tie my guys to a hitching post (used for the horses) and just clip them standing up. I wouldn't say the liked it and I didn't do a very good job but I didn't have the problems Carellama did. I think if I had to go to that sort of trouble I'd get rid of the animals, but that's me. I had my guys from a young age so it was probably easier for me since they grew up with my ways. Either way, it isn't a one person job.


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## Chaty (Apr 4, 2008)

I agree just trim them slowly. I have had this problem with new goats and it does make the feet sore. I trim my Llamas toenails slowly as he doesnt get done as often as the goats do but he does get it done and Llamas are cuddly creatures like Alpacas. I have had my Llama since he was 3 weeks old and bottle fed him. I always take it slow on the hooves and nails on anything.


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## carellama (Nov 12, 2007)

Marchwind said:


> Carellama that sounds awful. When I had my Llamas (I had two guys and they were very friendly) I was told to clip them with scissors rather than shearing. The person who told me this said it would create less guard hairs. I was able to tie my guys to a hitching post (used for the horses) and just clip them standing up. I wouldn't say the liked it and I didn't do a very good job but I didn't have the problems Carellama did. I think if I had to go to that sort of trouble I'd get rid of the animals, but that's me. I had my guys from a young age so it was probably easier for me since they grew up with my ways. Either way, it isn't a one person job.


Sorry I must clarify. I have never done this to my llamas but it was alpacas that I was talking about. The professional alplaca shearers come with a shearing table that they strap the animals to and flip them side to side as needed. It is the most humane way safe way to get the job done.

Sorry Chaty but I can;t say that llamas by nature are cuddly. They are afraid of everything because in the wild they are animals of prey so are supposed to be flighty or they get eaten in South America So in working with them you have to help them control their fear. That is the John Mallon method. LLamas do not respond to pats/treats like other pets nor do they respond to a strong hand. They slowly will learn to trust, but not 100 percent. And yes Marchwind some people find caring for these creatures more work than it is worth. I rather like their disposition because I am not the nurturing type


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## olivehill (Aug 17, 2009)

Well, maybe it depends on the individual alpaca and perhaps the handlers, too? I know it CAN be done as I've seen it done both in person and in video, but we'll see. I'm not a nurturing type, but critters here are expected to tolerate any hands on care that they require without too much intervention. I don't mind restraining them if I have to, but these two can certainly stand to have a bit of desensitizing done and a short walk on a lead and a few pets a day isn't going to hurt them.


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## carellama (Nov 12, 2007)

olivehill said:


> Well, maybe it depends on the individual alpaca and perhaps the handlers, too? I know it CAN be done as I've seen it done both in person and in video, but we'll see. I'm not a nurturing type, but critters here are expected to tolerate any hands on care that they require without too much intervention. I don't mind restraining them if I have to, but these two can certainly stand to have a bit of desensitizing done and a short walk on a lead and a few pets a day isn't going to hurt them.


Sounds like tough love to me. HaHa I restrain for my own safety-just be careful. I was determined to have it my way when that quick back leg rattled my teeth. I never even seen it coming. take care You are right about the individual animal


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## olivehill (Aug 17, 2009)

carellama said:


> Sounds like tough love to me. HaHa I restrain for my own safety-just be careful. I was determined to have it my way when that quick back leg rattled my teeth. I never even seen it coming. take care You are right about the individual animal


Haha. Oh, didn't I mention? Tough love is my specialty. :hysterical:

I will definitely be careful. Thanks again for all your help.


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## AverageJo (Sep 24, 2010)

Have any of you tried the cush position on the alpacas? Although we use our shearing table now, I used to get them to cush and then have someone hold them down while I slid a leg out just far enough to get the trimming done.


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## PKBoo (Apr 10, 2008)

Callieslamb said:


> If you ever do this, I really hope you get a video...for instructional purposes only, you understand.


We need a full time video crew around here - it's always a hoot! :hysterical:


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## PKBoo (Apr 10, 2008)

AverageJo said:


> Have any of you tried the cush position on the alpacas? Although we use our shearing table now, I used to get them to cush and then have someone hold them down while I slid a leg out just far enough to get the trimming done.


We've never been able to get them to cush and stay down - they struggle too much. I use my (very large) body to pin them against the stall wall, then DH picks up their feet and trims. Then we turn them around, pin, and trim the other side. Not very graceful, but it works :duel: 

One of our screams the entire time :grit:


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## Chaty (Apr 4, 2008)

Well that was a oops on my part I meant to say they are not the most cuddly creature. Even with mine being bottle fed he is still standoffish to a point. Yep they are jumpy creatures and always looking for predators. No matter what I always watch my Llama and yes those feet can move.


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