# Rescue



## aoconnor1 (Jun 19, 2014)

I don't want to hijack the thread about broodmare leasing, so have started this one to get info from you guys about the rescue situation.

Here's my thing, I am not on any social media sites other than this website and a couple of dog websites, so I don't hear anything out there about most horse stuff unless I am researching specific issues. I do all breed rescue, I am not affiliated with anyone else nor am I a fake non-profit. I take in the most abused and neglected horses in our area because I can make them mentally, emotionally, and physically well and my passion is helping them be what they can become, what God created them to be. I have never once told anyone to adopt a rescue before they breed, I myself am a small breeder, and think it audacious that this is actually what rescues are telling people, if that's the case.

I have rescued some outstandingly well bred horses in my life, some are major race track winners, others incredibly well bred QH's of differing lines. A few are mutts. Some I have intentionally purchased to get them out of a horrible situation that the previous "owner" put the horse in for whatever reason. Some are true OMG rescues that had only days to live with either the degree of starvation they had or injury/abuse they had. Those are ones that either come to me from the county sheriff or the vets, as well as one that I found on my neighbors vacant property. Of the ones I have that are truly horrific rescues, ALL but one have top of the line pedigrees and I actually hold paper on them, so to say that all rescues are poor quality or never will live up to a desired expectation is wrong. That is not the case. In those cases, I would highly recommend a rescue of that caliber to someone searching for a good horse for a specific job.

But....to get what I know I want, and without having to search pages and pages of "rescue" sites, most of which only want you to contribute to their cause and want you to never, ever think about owning a horse if it isn't adopted from them or another rescue, I breed my own mares to outstanding stallions and throw babies that are exactly what I was trying to attain by that particular breeding. No, I would not find that in a rescue, and would not ever tell anyone that they should try to, either. 

I am not against breeding at all, but breeding like it's done by a lot of people is against what I believe. To just toss a half rate stallion in with a mess of a mare, to throw a cute baby based on a pedigree it doesn't live up to that will wind up at a sale barn because it is of such poor conformation or health that it isn't suited for anything but the salebarn, is wrong. Plain and simple. No matter what the lines are, many horses just need to not be bred. 

So, if "rescue" has become a buzz word, I had no idea! I guess when it's something that you do for the love of the horse, for the satisfaction of seeing them grow and bloom and become what they are meant to be, it isn't really rescuing the horse, it is rescuing a heart. For me, it is my passion to bring out the best in all, no matter the degree of great breeding they have or don't have. It isn't so that someone else can get a horse from me and hope it all goes well, it is for my own satisfaction of knowing I did the best I could for something as grand and majestic and lovely as these creatures are. Nothing should be abused or neglected in this world, but sadly that isn't the case. So in my little corner of this place, I do what I can to help what comes my way. If other rescues aren't doing that, it's a sad day for the term "rescue". 

That's where I'm at with it all. If I answer a thread about breeding with a negative sounding post, it isn't because I am against breeding, it's that I am against throwing two horses together that will throw a foal I may wind up having to care for someday down the road because no one can do anything with it and they let it get into bad shape, throw it away, or watch it starve, and leave the mess that shouldn't have ever been born in the first place on the plate of someone else.


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## wr (Aug 10, 2003)

Since my comments started this, I'll also explain. 

I have also taken in horses from bad situations and o think that's why the terms rescue and abused frustrate me. It's become a self gratifying term to many. 'I rescued three horses from the auction last week,' 'I rescued my horse from an endurance rider, the track, etc' or simply rescued because it wasn't hog fat or horses not living in heated barns. I just read an article about a non profit rescue that just saved 3, two years olds from being sold at a ranch horse sale. The trendy new use of the word diminished the good works done by honest people. 

The old rancher rode a one eyed horse for years. The eye was lost because of an injury sustained playing in the pasture and I can't count how many people contacted him with the hopes of rescuing him into a pasture ornament because he was surely abused and deserved a life of ease. 

Abused is my second most disliked word. A horse acts up or acts like a horse and it's immediately assumed that the poor thing has been abused. It's a sin to correct or 'spank' a horse for bad behaviour anymore lest it needs counselling later on. Shame on Ray Hunt for even suggesting a quick response to negative behaviour. Again, an overused word diminishes the plight of those horses in truly bad situations. I honestly think it comes from elevating horses from livestock to pets but maybe it comes from all the new owners as a result of low horse prices.


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## SFM in KY (May 11, 2002)

I agree with everything both of you say. Rescue was originally not a 'dirty word' in my vocabulary, but it has become one because it has gotten to be a 'buzz word' with the non-professional horse world. I'm using 'non-professional' deliberately because so many of the people that are so beligerantly anti-breeding are one or two horse hobby owners and are perfectly happy with a trail horse they can ride around the pasture or down the road, and have a pasture pet they rescued that can't be ridden.

You will not find many serious riders/ competitors that will look at a rescue horse, they go to a reliable breeder who is known for producing successful horses in the discipline they ride and purchase a carefully bred youngster with a better than average potential to excel in that discipline.

I have bought my share of horses out of auction rings, but I grew up with working horses, trainers, breeders and auction sales and have a lot of experience in evaluating under less than ideal circumstances. The fact is, most people are not experienced enough to make those decisions and that includes a lot of 'rescue people' who buy from the 'killer pens'. Horses like Snowman have books written about them, but the books don't emphasize that his buyer was a highly successful trainer/rider with years of experience with many successful horses. For every Snowman, there are hundreds of horses that are at best, very average and at worst, dangerous for the inexperienced rider. For all the auction horses I've bought in my lifetime, I've not been lucky enough to find a 'Snowman' although I've bought several very successful broodmares, one that produced a successful Intermediate eventer, one that produced a pony hunter that placed at National finals and one with three successful pony hunters, including one now for sale in the 5-figure range. I've also brought home several that went back to the sale ring the following month for various reasons. I feel absolutely no need to risk injury with a horse that has dangerous issues just to prove a point to someone.

There are good rescues and my preference would be a 'rescue' or 'rehab' that also breeds good horses themselves, or has at least, so they know what to look for. One of the TB rescue/rehab groups in Lexington, KY has a trainer working for them that I know personally, who has bred good horses and has put a number of very successful hunter horses and ponies in the ring. I would not be concerned about getting a horse that had been through her hands. OTOH I know two people who have dealt with supposedly highly recommended rescues and the horse they ended up with was absolutely not as represented. 

I am definitely getting to the point where I am insulted by the avalanche of 'too many horses, don't breed, adopt/rescue' posts for every request for information about breeding for a specific type of horse. I DO agree that there are too many horses bred simply because the owner has a mare and the neighbor has a stallion and they want a foal. No plan, no knowledge, not a good idea. But if there were too many quality, well bred foals being produced by knowledgeable breeders for exceptional potential in specific disciplines, breeders like myself and others I know personally would not be selling the foals we produce before they are ever foaled ... or before they were weaned.


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## haypoint (Oct 4, 2006)

Rescue is a dirty word.
It is used to cover puppy mills and guys that supply killer horses for the Canadian market. They are totally unregulated and profit on the mistaken beliefs people have on their honesty. 

Let's say you have a horse that has a brain injury and needs to be put down. A killer horse buyer may buy it, but sell it as a well broke horse. Lots of horses go through auctions and private sales at prices that attract meat buyers. Some get sorted out and re-sold as rescue horses. Because people love to rescue animals, it is a powerful sales tool. Some rescues are just buying horses for meat.

Keep on breeding whatever you want to breed. Most folks that breed horses have good intentions, as you seem to. But when situations change, you'll be adding your horses to the general overpopulation of horses.


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## wr (Aug 10, 2003)

cranbrook said:


> Keep on breeding whatever you want to breed. Most folks that breed horses have good intentions, as you seem to. But when situations change, you'll be adding your horses to the general overpopulation of horses.



I'm not sure I totally agree with this although I breed infrequently. I tend to breed cautiously with the intent to replace one of my older horses and because demand is high here, I may breed a couple mares. My situation hasn't changed enough over the years to consider selling my horses although my recent injury could affect my ability to train anything for up to a year. I may be a menace on crutches but the old ranch horse copes pretty well with the cast.


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## Molly Mckee (Jul 8, 2006)

Around here most of the rescues are simply a way for the owner to get you to donate to the cost of his horses, or support his farm. The horses are for "sale" at very high prices, and you don't really own the horse if you do buy one. They are all about donations.

One of the true rescues is run by the wife of a killer buyer. They sort out the good horses that come through, and sell them for killer prices, if they can find a buyer. She puts a lot of time into her project, puts up pictures on the internet, gets papers if available and saves a lot of worthwhile horses. However, they do ship plenty to Canada, and if no one wants a horse it will go eventually.

I see nothing wrong with knowledgeable people breeding good horses. I agree that breeding because a foal will be cute, and the neighbor has a stallion and you think you will make some money is wrong and contributes to a serious problem. But breeding good horses, is the only way we can keep good horses. If the good breeders don't bred it will not be long and there will be few horses worth keeping.


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## Jlynnp (Sep 9, 2014)

Aha 'rescue' it is a word that chills my heart for many of the same reasons it does others here. I was very actively involved in rescue before is was the in thing to do. Not for horses but rather dogs. Rescue is hard dirty work done right it is usually a thankless job. I have hauled dogs out of caves with their litter following behind, I have been pooped on, thrown up on, scratched and bitten. I have given my last dime to pay for a vet bill to euthanize a dog who's owner was to gutless to make the proper decision. However I am not and never will be anti breeder when the breeder does things right.

That given I would love to offer a foster home to a pony or a mini but do to health reasons I do not feel I could deal with a larger horse.


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## aoconnor1 (Jun 19, 2014)

I appreciate all of the responses. wr, I have had several comments in previous threads about rescue, so you didn't really initiate this thread, but did lend to me posting it!

I have been in horses for almost 50 years. In that time, I have bred 3 times. Once for a filly I wanted (and got a filly!) to replace my aged Eventer. One was to throw a Reiner, which I got, but he received a mortal wound and I had to put him down before his 2nd birthday. I bred his dam back to his sire and was given a lovely filly that will be used for the exact same intent my colt had been bred for. I have 2 coming 2 year olds that I did not breed for, one was an orphaned one week old that I took from a trader (I paid him to let me take the filly). The other one is a gelding now, his dam was bred when I got her. She was a rescue, she had been bred 3 times before her 4th birthday and was in bad shape when I picked her up. She foaled and I am keeping him.

By the way, this is my life work, rescue. It is my passion, not a thing that I do to sell the horses when they look better. I have placed one young colt with my farrier, and a young filly to him as well, because they were both great roping bred babies....one came with a rescue mare and one was given to me by someone who owed me money. My farrier is a great roper and so it was a wonderful thing that they could go to him, but should the need ever arise, I will take them back for good. I haven't placed any other of the horses I have taken in. 

Good example of how my rescues come in. Today I had a couple of my young horses at the vet for yearly shots/coggins. On my way home a county deputy sheriff called me and asked if I could take a badly emaciated, sick old mare. I have room so said ok. I brought my other guys home and headed back to the county shelter to pick up the mare. She is in bad shape, with 2 abcessed molars and a sinus infection. She is about 300 pounds under weight. I went directly to my vet and spent just under 600 out of my own pocket for her care. She will be with me until she dies. This is a true rescue. Many of my horses are from similar situations that either a vet or sheriff calls me on. I take them all if possible. I never ask for a penny to help with any bills, it is all my money and my time and that's all it has been or will be. 

I also have been heavily involved in dog rescue. More than I can say have come and gone from my home to a foster provider, then on to a permanent home. I have 5 dogs right now that found their way to me in various ways. One I spent almost 10 grand on fixing her totally crushed pelvis and both hips after a truck in front of my husband ran her over and then kept going. She is still with us. Do I consider her a rescue? Absolutely. She would be dead if my hubby didn't pick her up. 

I'm sorry rescue is a bad word to so many people. I understand why, and it makes me so angry at those who have given it such a bad image. To me, it just means "bring it home, make it better, keep it forever if possible". 

I do not add to the overpopulation of unwanted horses. Mine are financially supplied for in the case of my death. They all will be taken care of. Some will be put down, others transferred to people already willing to accept that lifelong responsibility should the need arise. It is set up, written down, and ready in case. I don't know of anyone else that has that settled long before anything ever happens to them, but I have it settled because I refuse to work this hard and long and tirelessly with my heart so involved only to have them all ruined should I pass away. It is a part of caring for them even if I can't be here to do it myself. 

Thanks again for sharing your thoughts and feelings on the subject. I really had no idea it was so bad out there! I am a pretty sheltered person!!


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## wr (Aug 10, 2003)

Years ago a friend offered my daughter an orphan foal and Whit had a pretty solid track record for saving smaller orphans so she jumped at the chance to rescue this filly. 

It took two days to locate the band she was with and get her home and that's when Whit came to understand that not all orphans want to be rescued, they don't appreciate superhuman efforts and the sweet loving thing she envisioned, showed her appreciation by biting like a rabid dog and kicking like black belt. 

I think it took them both about 6 weeks to find middle ground and 6 years of the two of them knocking heads before either of them was satisfied.


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## aoconnor1 (Jun 19, 2014)

wr said:


> Years ago a friend offered my daughter an orphan foal and Whit had a pretty solid track record for saving smaller orphans so she jumped at the chance to rescue this filly.
> 
> It took two days to locate the band she was with and get her home and that's when Whit came to understand that not all orphans want to be rescued, they don't appreciate superhuman efforts and the sweet loving thing she envisioned, showed her appreciation by biting like a rabid dog and kicking like black belt.
> 
> I think it took them both about 6 weeks to find middle ground and 6 years of the two of them knocking heads before either of them was satisfied.


How funny. Yep, some just don't appreciate our concern for their well being!!


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## aoconnor1 (Jun 19, 2014)

Here are a couple of pics of new mare at vet today. She got a good float, flushed her sinus cavity, and a few other things. She is home resting now, feeling better I imagine.


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## wr (Aug 10, 2003)

aoconnor1 said:


> How funny. Yep, some just don't appreciate our concern for their well being!!



Since then, she's rehabbed and rehomed a lot of dogs, bottle fed a few dozen kittens, trained primates and domestics for movies, raised an orphan bison and trained him under saddle, trained quite a few horses but she has never taken in an orphan foal and never used the term rescue since.


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## aoconnor1 (Jun 19, 2014)

Well, only one pic attached. Here's one more.


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## aoconnor1 (Jun 19, 2014)

wr said:


> Since then, she's rehabbed and rehomed a lot of dogs, bottle fed a few dozen kittens, trained primates and domestics for movies, raised an orphan bison and trained him under saddle, trained quite a few horses but she has never taken in an orphan foal and never used the term rescue since.


I guess I have always just used that term. Might think about using a different one if it has such a negative connotation attached to it! I just didn't know....


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## Taratunafish (Aug 6, 2007)

As I know nothing about horses, but opened this thread to see the pic, how long will it take to get the horse back to a healthy weight? Glad the horse is in a better environment.


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## aoconnor1 (Jun 19, 2014)

It really depends on the horse herself. It can take up to six months to get her up to a decent weight, and a year to full health. It really is a long road back, but some are able to make the trip in less time than others


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## SFM in KY (May 11, 2002)

aoconnor1 said:


> I'm sorry rescue is a bad word to so many people. I understand why, and it makes me so angry at those who have given it such a bad image. To me, it just means "bring it home, make it better, keep it forever if possible".


This is what rescue should mean. Unfortunately, it has morphed into something very different.

A very good friend of mine who has had show dogs all of the 40 years I've known her and worked with breed rescue in her breed has recently opted out of the national breed rescue because of ongoing issues with the people now operating the rescue. Things that are being done because of the perception of people rather than things being done that are in the best interest of the dogs.


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## wr (Aug 10, 2003)

aoconnor1 said:


> I guess I have always just used that term. Might think about using a different one if it has such a negative connotation attached to it! I just didn't know....



You're using the term correctly and there is no reason to change. The problem lies with the ever evolving shift in language. If you're looking to clarify, you can say you rehabilitate horses in peril.


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## Teej (Jan 14, 2012)

I'm not anti-breeding and used to breed paint & quarter horses. I feel that if a person decides to breed it's their choice and their business not mine. Every time someone goes into an anti rant I have to bite my tongue to keep from asking them if they have kids, what exceptional thing in life they have done to make them worthy of passing along their genetics, and did they have genetic testing to make sure they weren't going to pass along the cancer gene, or alzheimers gene, or diabetes, or heart disease. I really feel like their rants are just as rude as mine would be. 

As for rescuing, there were many times I bought a horse just to get them out of their current home because they were extremely thin/neglected. I always thought of them as my rescues even though I didn't save them from an auction. I think most people who truly love horses do what they can when they can and I think most breeders truly love horses. They have to because if you actually look at the bottom line of the cost of upkeep on the mare & stallion plus figure in an hourly wage for yourself plus upkeep & maintenance on your farm and not just what the foal cost versus what you sold it for, well there isn't much of a profit. Not these days anyway. I am talking about your average breeder here and not some big thoroughbred farm but even a lot of them aren't making enough to keep going. 

It's also my thinking that the rescues are more filled with broken down or didn't make the cut thoroughbreds and PMU foals than they are with backyard breeder horses but you rarely hear people placing the blame on those industries. It's not that I'm against those industries, they certainly serve a purpose, but they also dump a lot of horses on an already strained market.

As a horse lover I give kudos to all of you who have ever taken in a horse that needed a better home. I don't particularly care what you want call it but I care greatly that you did it. I should actually say I love all animals and am grateful no matter what the species.


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## dizzy (Jun 25, 2013)

My horse is a rescue, and I got lucky w/her. She was part of a large herd seized by the SPCA for neglect. I have seen pics of her from when they were seized. You could see every bone in her body. I know nothing about her lines. You can tell just looking at her that she's Arabian, but they had no papers on her. And the first winter I had her, even though she was being fed and had hay 24/7, she lost weight and got rain rot. Since that time, she's never had a problem.

That being said, I will never get another horse from a rescue. A friend got a horse for driving from one. The horse she did have had to be put down. Several months down the road, she had to have a vet fill out papers and submit them to the rescue. Well, the vet put down that the horse had a 3.5 BSC! When she wasn't home, they came and took the horse plus called the SPCA. The SPCA came and found no problem. The rescue found no problem w/the horse and think the vet used a different BSC scoring system. Apparently, there's 2, one that goes from 1-9 (which is what I'm familiar w/and what the rescue uses) and one that goes from 1-5. They think he used that one. 

But, they will not give her the horse back. They decided she has enough horses. So, she's out the adoption fee, several months of feed, plus what she just spent on the horse. And now she has no driving horse.


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## aoconnor1 (Jun 19, 2014)

dizzy said:


> My horse is a rescue, and I got lucky w/her. She was part of a large herd seized by the SPCA for neglect. I have seen pics of her from when they were seized. You could see every bone in her body. I know nothing about her lines. You can tell just looking at her that she's Arabian, but they had no papers on her. And the first winter I had her, even though she was being fed and had hay 24/7, she lost weight and got rain rot. Since that time, she's never had a problem.
> 
> That being said, I will never get another horse from a rescue. A friend got a horse for driving from one. The horse she did have had to be put down. Several months down the road, she had to have a vet fill out papers and submit them to the rescue. Well, the vet put down that the horse had a 3.5 BSC! When she wasn't home, they came and took the horse plus called the SPCA. The SPCA came and found no problem. The rescue found no problem w/the horse and think the vet used a different BSC scoring system. Apparently, there's 2, one that goes from 1-9 (which is what I'm familiar w/and what the rescue uses) and one that goes from 1-5. They think he used that one.
> 
> But, they will not give her the horse back. They decided she has enough horses. So, she's out the adoption fee, several months of feed, plus what she just spent on the horse. And now she has no driving horse.


Good grief, I would be beyond furious. I hate "rescues" like that, they are just flat out liars and shouldn't be in the industry to begin with.

I can honestly say that when I placed the two youngsters with my farrier, I so it without a piece of paper, without a "buy back" clause, without anything. I told them if anything ever happened that they would need to let those two horses go, I would take them back. They said ok. No signatures, just a handshake. I didn't compalin about them living one state over, I don't get pictures every week, and I don't do home visits to make sure the animal is ok. They aren't my horses any longer, my hands are busy with what I have here, I don't need to meddle in their care of them. 

I hope your friend has posted her story where others can see it and act accordingly. How tragic for the horse, but shame, shame, shame on the vet for not clarifying which scoring system was in use.


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## dizzy (Jun 25, 2013)

I'm w/those that are tired of hearing everyone touting rescues and not breeding. I'm looking for a dog. I want a specific breed for a specific purpose and want an older puppy (like past the chewing stage). I want to train it from the getgo. I'm so tired of people telling me get a rescue. First off, I'm not quite ready to get the dog. Then, there's no guarantee a rescue would have what I'm looking for. Plus, if the dog has issues, I don't want to have to deal w/them. I'm taking my time and researching breeders. When the time is right, and I find what I'm looking for, then I'll get a dog, but not B4 then.


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## aoconnor1 (Jun 19, 2014)

dizzy said:


> I'm w/those that are tired of hearing everyone touting rescues and not breeding. I'm looking for a dog. I want a specific breed for a specific purpose and want an older puppy (like past the chewing stage). I want to train it from the getgo. I'm so tired of people telling me get a rescue. First off, I'm not quite ready to get the dog. Then, there's no guarantee a rescue would have what I'm looking for. Plus, if the dog has issues, I don't want to have to deal w/them. I'm taking my time and researching breeders. When the time is right, and I find what I'm looking for, then I'll get a dog, but not B4 then.


I completely agree. When I go to look for another English Bulldog, I am going to a good breeder, not a rescue. Sorry, but a lot of rescues are there for a reason, not for nothing. I want a puppy, most rescues only have adults. So I will go to a good breeder for my next Bully.


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## dizzy (Jun 25, 2013)

Same as when I get another horse. Arabs are my favorite breed. When I'm ready to get another, I'll find a breeder that has a young horse that has everything I'm looking for. Whether I get a weanling filly, or one that's a couple of years old is going to depend on how I'm feeling when I'm ready to look!

ETA: Finding a good breeder and doing research is the way to go. I found a dog breeder I was thinking of looking into. Did some more digging and found out they're no longer in business. They had animal cruelty charges filed against them. And people complained about the dogs they got from them. They had all kinds of health and behavioral issues. Apparently, they were more of a puppy mill than a good breeder.


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## sidepasser (May 10, 2002)

Dizzy, I have no clue where you are, but I have a friend who found out she has stage 4 breast cancer and she has beautiful arabs. I believe they are trying to place her horses as she is not able to care for them. Just a thought, and I do not know what they are charging but I know they have some of the nicest bloodlines and are "using" type arabs, not halter stock - although pretty enough to be in halter classes.


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## GrannyCarol (Mar 23, 2005)

I personally have no problem with animals being put down or butchered (humanely) for whatever reason the owner has for doing it. I love my dogs, I bred and showed for 30 years then retired from it. I did my best to be a "responsible" breeder, but the whole thing has gotten crazy, just like the "horse rescue" and all the anti-breeding sentiments. Even pets are not people, they are animals. I have a responsibility towards them and a love for them, but they are not the same thing. There is so much craziness today towards animals, much of it stemming from PETA and their mindset. 

I am a pet owner, not some sort of weird guardian or parent! 

I am sure my attitude comes from being a 3rd generation dog breeder. Back when my mother was young, large kennels developed breeds of dogs and refined and improved them. They would breed a large number of dogs and cull the ones that didn't make the grade health or temperament wise. Frankly, I don't have a problem with that, they bred some great dogs, they knew their breed thoroughly and invested a lot in them. 

Maybe I'm cranky today, but I just get so tired of "every animal must be saved no matter what or you are evil" view of livestock or pets. Of course, I don't have a problem if someone wants to save a dog, or a horse, that's great, but to lay that pressure on everyone is just out of line. For instance, I'm glad to see the OP's poor mare getting good treatment and having a hope for a better and happy life, I can't wait to see pictures as she fills out and gets healthy. On the other hand, if the OP decided it was better to put her down tomorrow, I'd be a little sad, but also glad the horse isn't suffering. 

To be sure my attitude is clear, I am for responsible animal ownership, but not animal rights or calling pets "children" and treating them as such.


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## aoconnor1 (Jun 19, 2014)

GrannyCarol said:


> I personally have no problem with animals being put down or butchered (humanely) for whatever reason the owner has for doing it. I love my dogs, I bred and showed for 30 years then retired from it. I did my best to be a "responsible" breeder, but the whole thing has gotten crazy, just like the "horse rescue" and all the anti-breeding sentiments. Even pets are not people, they are animals. I have a responsibility towards them and a love for them, but they are not the same thing. There is so much craziness today towards animals, much of it stemming from PETA and their mindset.
> 
> I am a pet owner, not some sort of weird guardian or parent!
> 
> ...


That is exactly what I think as well. Excellent post!


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## dizzy (Jun 25, 2013)

Sidepasser, thanks for the info, but I don't have room for another horse right now. And, I'm probably too far away to get one. I'm not too far from Philly.

Thing that bothers me about some, not all breeders, is what they've done to certain breeds of both dogs and horses because they're the popular breed at that time often to the determent of the breed. Honestly, I can't understand those that breed horses just to show them in halter classes, but the horse isn't suitable for riding. To me, that makes no sense.


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## wr (Aug 10, 2003)

GrannyCarol said:


> I personally have no problem with animals being put down or butchered (humanely) for whatever reason the owner has for doing it. I love my dogs, I bred and showed for 30 years then retired from it. I did my best to be a "responsible" breeder, but the whole thing has gotten crazy, just like the "horse rescue" and all the anti-breeding sentiments. Even pets are not people, they are animals. I have a responsibility towards them and a love for them, but they are not the same thing. There is so much craziness today towards animals, much of it stemming from PETA and their mindset.
> 
> I am a pet owner, not some sort of weird guardian or parent!
> 
> ...



Recently, a young neighbour had a dog sustain an injury similar to mine and she was given three choices, amputate, a bunch of hardware or put the dog down. 

She felt that her best buddy needed hardware (pins and plates) and she currently has about $8,000.00 she can't afford into it so far and I saw the dog about 3 days ago and she's miserable. The metal is causing the poor dog to be so cold that she's uncomfortable outside and can barely walk. But she's save the dog. 

Our heeler is everything to us but we are both practical people and we have already decided what constitutes quality of life and if something were to happen, neither of us would hesitate to do put her down.


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## Forestrider (Feb 16, 2014)

When my late husband had his fatal accident, he had his dog with him. The dog's back was broken. The vet wanted me to OK over $2,000.00 worth of surgery for this dog. I said "I can't afford to buy my son new shoes. But you want me to spend $2,000.00 on a dog. I want that dog put down tonight. And I want to see, in writing, with your signature, that this was done. Then I'll pay you for your trouble. Until I see that, I will not pay you." Then I went out and got a second job, to pay for shoes and the vet. Un $%*#ing believable. No.

If you want to spend $10,000.00 fixing a dog, that's your biz. But I think of all the hungry children, right here in America, that could eat for quite a few years, on that amount of money. I couldn't justify it. My conscience would kill me.


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## harvestmoon1964 (Apr 24, 2014)

Forestrider said:


> When my late husband had his fatal accident, he had his dog with him. The dog's back was broken. The vet wanted me to OK over $2,000.00 worth of surgery for this dog. I said "I can't afford to buy my son new shoes. But you want me to spend $2,000.00 on a dog. I want that dog put down tonight. And I want to see, in writing, with your signature, that this was done. Then I'll pay you for your trouble. Until I see that, I will not pay you." Then I went out and got a second job, to pay for shoes and the vet. Un $%*#ing believable. No.
> 
> If you want to spend $10,000.00 fixing a dog, that's your biz. But I think of all the hungry children, right here in America, that could eat for quite a few years, on that amount of money. I couldn't justify it. My conscience would kill me.


Well thanks. I have actually spent thousands on special animals that my family and I have loved, and since we could afford it, I didn't feel any need to justify it. I also give a LOT of money to various charities, but I've never felt that I had to choose not to care for my sick or injured animals in favor of charities. Maybe you would feel better just selling your horses and giving that money and all of the money you spend on their upkeep to charity?


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## aoconnor1 (Jun 19, 2014)

Forestrider said:


> When my late husband had his fatal accident, he had his dog with him. The dog's back was broken. The vet wanted me to OK over $2,000.00 worth of surgery for this dog. I said "I can't afford to buy my son new shoes. But you want me to spend $2,000.00 on a dog. I want that dog put down tonight. And I want to see, in writing, with your signature, that this was done. Then I'll pay you for your trouble. Until I see that, I will not pay you." Then I went out and got a second job, to pay for shoes and the vet. Un $%*#ing believable. No.
> 
> If you want to spend $10,000.00 fixing a dog, that's your biz. But I think of all the hungry children, right here in America, that could eat for quite a few years, on that amount of money. I couldn't justify it. My conscience would kill me.


I will spend what I want, when I want, in any way I choose. You assume my only expenditures are on animals, I suggest you don't know who we are or what we do for people. Until you know the whole, assume nothing.


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## CraterCove (Jan 24, 2011)

aoconnor1 said:


> I will spend what I want, when I want, in any way I choose. You assume my only expenditures are on animals, I suggest you don't know who we are or what we do for people. Until you know the whole, assume nothing.


You all seemed to miss the, "If you want to spend that kind of money that's your biz." part. Perhaps you feel more guilt over your choices than you let on or you would understand when someone is speaking for themselves and not about you. What was that you were saying about assuming?


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## sidepasser (May 10, 2002)

Money is a very touchy subject, especially when it comes to animals. 

I look at it this way as I have dealt with folks, rescues, animals, money and vets my whole life. _People should spend what they can afford._ 

_*If a person can't feed their kids or themselves, they should NOT have animals.* 

_Animals are expensive. Plain and simple. Food, vet care, hoof care, etc. all costs money. I do agree that if an animal gets hurt, and the vet bill is going to exceed what one can reasonably afford and the animal may (1) never have any quality of life or (2) the bill is going to mean that house payments are not going to be made for the next six months..rethink that vet bill.

We all have our levels of "financial fitness" and know what we can afford. I tell folks who are getting a horse to put at least 1,000 dollars in a savings account just for medical bills. I don't care if the horse is a 200. horse off Craigslist or a free horse, MOST medical bills are going to be at least 100.00 and it only goes up from there. Maybe your kid's pony stepped in a hole and is dead lame..an xray of the leg may cost 300. Are you going to put the pony down over 300.? Probably not, but if the leg is broken but can be fixed for 10,000..yeah probably you might consider putting the pony down given the outcome may not be the best for your finances or the pony.

I don't know why that is so hard for people to understand these days. A free horse is anything but free. A free dog is anything but free. The initial acquisition cost is nothing compared to years of upkeep and maintenance. 

I have always had between 1-5,000 in savings earmarked just for a medical bill that I know is coming. I may not know when, but I know it will happen. Horses are accidents waiting for a place to happen, most are born looking for way to die expensively.

_Many of the horses I have taken in over the years were given up due to poor or no planning on the owner's part._ Nothing planned for job loss, death in the family, vet bills, farrier bills, increased hay costs or feed costs, accidents involving those who care for the horse, etc. No thought given to any risk management..or what if's. Just la-la everything will be fine until it isn't. The animal suffers and it is preventable most of the time. 

Do some planning..put some money up for the unexpected vet bills and necessary annual maintenance. Don't go to the poor house over a huge vet bill that might have an "iffy" outcome. Enjoy your animals and as a reminder..

What will happen to your animals when you die? Will they starve because no one knows how to feed them, where they are, that you have animals? Will your kids hotfoot them down to the sale barn and sell them for whatever they bring? Will your kids have them put down cause they live in an apartment and don't want the responsibility of them?

Most people I know haven't given this one whit's thought. They think "oh family will take care of them". Well given that most family hasn't been asked and doesn't know what is required or how expensive it is to take care of elderly horses or ailing dogs, are you sure about that? Have you sat down with family and said "I want you to take care of Dobbin who is 21 and needs special shoes, senior feed, soaked hay, blankets at night and turnout only during the day?

Something to think on as my attorney told me that he sees a lot of animals left to families who want nothing to do with them. Animals end up at the pound, put down, sometimes just given to the first person who will take them regardless of the outcome.

You love your animals..don't assume your family does as well. Address this issue in a will or trust so your animals don't end up in a bad place or become a burden on someone else who really doesn't want them.

Off my soapbox and to work I go..Josey needs new shoes


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## GrannyCarol (Mar 23, 2005)

I have to wonder what the subject of hungry children has to do with my choices of animal care? That seems like telling your children to eat their breakfast because others are going hungry, what difference does it make? I will either donate to charity or not, regardless of my choices to pay for the care of the animals that are my straight up responsibility. My choices are related to the quality of life for my pet, prognoses, and whether or not I have and want to spend whatever the cost is. They are not related to who else I might help. I will certainly not be moved by someone laying guilt on themselves or on me, that is not a healthy way to live.


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## where I want to (Oct 28, 2008)

It depends on the people involved whether a breeding works or doesn't. The best quality horse I ever owed was the result of a veterinarian who had a thoroughbred mare he was holding for nonpayment of bills. Because the change of ownership had to go through court then the Jockey Club, he decided to breed the mare to the arab stud owned by the woman at the stable to get something out of the mare for the costs of keeping her.
What a hunk of that resulting colt was. Only registered as an half arab as the vet did not have the mare's papers to do an anglo-arab register, that horse was a thorough athelete. Better than I could ever have afforded if not for tge odd circumstances.
So if a mare comes from a bad situation, yet is a quality horse, then breed away. If you ask me, breeding horses just because they are registered is the real path to poor quality horses. Even some who are well known champions produce crap if their faults are hidden. Like the club footed Arab stud international champion whose foot was carefully reshaped for viewing and people only became aware of it because of the number of club footed offspring he made.


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## harvestmoon1964 (Apr 24, 2014)

CraterCove said:


> You all seemed to miss the, "If you want to spend that kind of money that's your biz." part. Perhaps you feel more guilt over your choices than you let on or you would understand when someone is speaking for themselves and not about you. What was that you were saying about assuming?


And YOU seemed to miss this judgemental tidbit that came right after your quote:



Forestrider said:


> But I think of all the hungry children, right here in America, that could eat for quite a few years, on that amount of money. I couldn't justify it. My conscience would kill me.


If you don't catch the smug inference that we who DO spend money on saving our animals have a less active social conscience than herself, then I don't know what to tell you.


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## CraterCove (Jan 24, 2011)

harvestmoon1964 said:


> And YOU seemed to miss this judgemental tidbit that came right after your quote:
> 
> 
> 
> If you don't catch the smug inference that we who DO spend money on saving our animals have a less active social conscience than herself, then I don't know what to tell you.


I see where she says /I/ couldn't justify it. I don't see anything offensive unless you put some real effort into it. But that's your choice too.


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## where I want to (Oct 28, 2008)

Sometimes a horse owner gets blindsided and the horse's problems are more than their normally adequate resources allow. I bought a young thoroughbred from a trainer who had a slightly sore back. Vet said it was going to be just fine. And you can see this one coming- it was not. 
So having spent thousands on the horse, then immediately many more thousands on his problems, which , after several trips to the University Vet School, I reached a point of maxing out my credit card after I had run through my savings, all to have no clue what his problem was. I did not have enough money to pay my next montys board bill when I finally put him down. He was the only horse that I put down because I ran out of money. And that was a horrible feeling.


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## wr (Aug 10, 2003)

Rescue or not, working animal or pet, I do feel it is wise to have an emergency fund hidden away but it is also a wise idea to establish a financial limit on any animal before something happens.


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## wr (Aug 10, 2003)

Forestrider said:


> When my late husband had his fatal accident, he had his dog with him. The dog's back was broken. The vet wanted me to OK over $2,000.00 worth of surgery for this dog. I said "I can't afford to buy my son new shoes. But you want me to spend $2,000.00 on a dog. I want that dog put down tonight. And I want to see, in writing, with your signature, that this was done. Then I'll pay you for your trouble. Until I see that, I will not pay you." Then I went out and got a second job, to pay for shoes and the vet. Un $%*#ing believable. No.
> 
> 
> 
> If you want to spend $10,000.00 fixing a dog, that's your biz. But I think of all the hungry children, right here in America, that could eat for quite a few years, on that amount of money. I couldn't justify it. My conscience would kill me.



I'm very sorry you lost your husband and I can honestly say, I can fully comprehend being outraged about a vet wanting a grieving widow to shell out that kind of money. 

I do think that what someone is willing to pay to care for a beloved pet or an equine in need is a personal choice and really no reflection of what they might spend on helping people in need.


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## aoconnor1 (Jun 19, 2014)

CraterCove said:


> You all seemed to miss the, "If you want to spend that kind of money that's your biz." part. Perhaps you feel more guilt over your choices than you let on or you would understand when someone is speaking for themselves and not about you. What was that you were saying about assuming?


She specifically mentioned about the 10 grand I spent on the dog we peeled off the road after she was run over by a driver that kept on going. If I want to spend 10 grand or a hundred grand, it is no ones business but my own. I have the money, it's given to who or what I want to give it to. Animals or people, either/or. I have no guilt about anything I spend on my horses, dogs, or my two beautiful, smart, totally deaf grand daughters with bi-lateral cochlear implants who are the loves of my life and live on our ranch. It is what I do and I do it without the need of your consent or anyone else's, thank you. 

I am truly sorry the lady lost her husband, that is a horrific thing. Had she been someone I knew, I would have moved Heaven and Earth to help her in any way necessary, including financially. If you are going to berate me for being that kind of person, have at it, I could care less. I love my life and how I live it. What you or anyone else may think of me is your deal, not mine. I made the initial post to clarify a term I use when talking about what I do specifically with horses, not about how much money I give to starving children in this country.


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## wr (Aug 10, 2003)

I spent close to $10,000.00 on vet bills for my ex's horse once and in hindsight it was a poor decision. 

The horse was an ill mannered Impressive bred beast with apparent autoimmune problems and the ex was musta had the same thing because he often felt the need for a week in bed because he wasn't feeling great. I'd be a fairly wealthy woman if I'd put them both down at the same time.


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## Molly Mckee (Jul 8, 2006)

I think that people need to remember when you are pointing your finger at other peoples spending money, there are 4 fingers pointing back at you. My spending money to save my dog will not affect starving children. Do you have a nice truck, a house, 2 pairs of jeans--you could spend that money feeding kids. There is no reason for a child in America to go hungry, except poor parents. There are plenty of programs, food banks and charities. We all contribute to these programs one way or another, and if you are willing to help an animal I'm willing to bet you will be willing to help a child as well.


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## wr (Aug 10, 2003)

Molly Mckee said:


> I think that people need to remember when you are pointing your finger at other peoples spending money, there are 4 fingers pointing back at you. My spending money to save my dog will not affect starving children. Do you have a nice truck, a house, 2 pairs of jeans--you could spend that money feeding kids. There is no reason for a child in America to go hungry, except poor parents. There are plenty of programs, food banks and charities. We all contribute to these programs one way or another, and if you are willing to help an animal I'm willing to bet you will be willing to help a child as well.



I feel my kids learned empathy and compassion while saving kittens, puppies, calves, foals, etc. my daughter has likely rehabbed and rehomed more dogs than the SPCA in Calgary and she's perpetually poor because of it. 

I believe that it is because of that compassion and empathy that caused her to involve her brothers in a fairly large fundraising effort to help defray the funeral expenses of a dear friend who perished in a house fire. Three farm kids managed to raise about $8,000.00.

A coworker of the test pilot was killed in a trucking accident and it takes quite a while for death benefits to be paid out. Three farm kids lead a bunch of truckers to fundraise, armed with cell phones, iPads and Facebook, their silent auction raised over $25,000.00. 

My kids don't need a pat on the back but it does indicate that people who do rescue animals are compassionate and caring within their own communities.


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## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

There are good rescues and there are bad rescues. I only have problems with the ones that are doing it to support their animal addiction at someone elses expense.


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## aoconnor1 (Jun 19, 2014)

Wlover said:


> There are good rescues and there are bad rescues. I only have problems with the ones that are doing it to support their animal addiction at someone elses expense.


I totally agree. I have not and never will ask for anything from anyone for my animals I take in. It's my responsibility, not someone else's. I would feel like an idiot asking for a handout to take care of my herd!


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