# Pasture pigs.Can they share pasture with goats?



## shawncentpa (May 7, 2009)

We have pasture area for our Nubians. We are considering pastured pork, well one piglet for now. We were wondering if we would need separate pasture area for one pig or could it share with the goats?

Thanks


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## harplade (Jul 14, 2005)

our pigs are running freely around with goats. We do separate when there is an impending birth. I think the kids would be ok but not wanting to trust the pigs to not make a snack out of a newborn goat. 
We feed ours separately.


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## Oregon Julie (Nov 9, 2006)

The man I got my sheep from when I first moved to Oregon had an old sow who got a taste for lambs, not just new borns either. He saw her once with one eating it and assumed it had died and she was cleaning up. Then he saw her go after and catch a lamb before he could stop her. The old sow went away and any other pigs after that stayed in their own area away from the sheep. I am sure it works for lots of people and pigs, but I would be really ----ed if one of mine started doing that. I figure better safe then sorry.


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## shawncentpa (May 7, 2009)

harplade said:


> our pigs are running freely around with goats. We do separate when there is an impending birth. I think the kids would be ok but not wanting to trust the pigs to not make a snack out of a newborn goat.
> We feed ours separately.


What are you using for fencing? We use three strands of polywire, works just fine for the goats.


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## highlands (Jul 18, 2004)

We pasture our pigs with our sheep, chickens, ducks and geese. I would suggest separating the ewes during lambing for a week to give the lambs time to get on their feet.

Cheers

-Walter
Sugar Mountain Farm
Pastured Pigs, Sheep & Kids
in the mountains of Vermont
Read about our on-farm butcher shop project:
http://SugarMtnFarm.com/butchershop
http://SugarMtnFarm.com/csa


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## HeritagePigs (Aug 11, 2009)

Hogs will take a newborn kid. We put our does into a separate fenced paddock when they are ready to kid and don't let the kids back into the open range until they are weaned. This gives them time to develop the strength to keep away from the hogs.

However, the best practice we have found is to run the goats trhough a paddock first and let the hogs follow them. The goats eat everything from about a foot up; the hogs then eat everything from a foot down. Also, unless you ring them, hogs will root the pasture and this wastes a lot of tall grass; better to let the goats eat that first.

Brian Wright
Large Black and Gloucestershire Old Spot hogs
Sustainable, Humane, Wholesome
HomegrownAcres.com


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## highlands (Jul 18, 2004)

Ringing is another of the intervention myths. We have never ringed our pigs and don't have a problem with rooting. Rooting is caused by a combination of miss-management of rotational grazing, soil type, wetness and browse cover. Pigs are more likely to root up brush roots, which is good. This helps to turn scruffy pasture into good pasture.

Cheers

-Walter
Sugar Mountain Farm
Pastured Pigs, Sheep & Kids
in the mountains of Vermont
Read about our on-farm butcher shop project:
http://SugarMtnFarm.com/butchershop
http://SugarMtnFarm.com/csa


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## HeritagePigs (Aug 11, 2009)

C'mon, Walter. "Myth"?

Ringing is an effective way to control rooting under those conditions where it causes an unacceptable problem (damage to pasture or forest; waste of forage; erosion). Perhaps rooting is not a problem for you but it has been a significant problem for many people. 

brian


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## Caprice Acres (Mar 6, 2005)

highlands said:


> Ringing is another of the intervention myths. We have never ringed our pigs and don't have a problem with rooting. Rooting is caused by a combination of miss-management of rotational grazing, soil type, wetness and browse cover. Pigs are more likely to root up brush roots, which is good. This helps to turn scruffy pasture into good pasture.
> 
> Cheers
> 
> ...


Goats need 'scruffy' pasture. They're browsers, not grazers. So, you'd be lessening your pasture quality... at least when it comes to goats.


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## highlands (Jul 18, 2004)

mygoat said:


> Goats need 'scruffy' pasture. They're browsers, not grazers. So, you'd be lessening your pasture quality... at least when it comes to goats.


Well, I'll just have to get a lot more goats! I currently have 40 acres of new clear cut that will grow up regen from the stumps and I have no goats.  Actually, the combination of sheep and pigs, what we use, does great at turning this into pasture. We did this with about 20 acres of pasture already and it worked great. In the long run our goal is to have the leveler portions of this be hayable so for that goat scrub wouldn't be the goal.

I actually would like to get goats, my brother has them and likes them, but it isn't a project for this year.

Cheers

-Walter
Sugar Mountain Farm
Pastured Pigs, Sheep & Kids
in the mountains of Vermont
Read about our on-farm butcher shop project:
http://SugarMtnFarm.com/butchershop
http://SugarMtnFarm.com/csa


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## Curtis B (Aug 15, 2008)

Ok, I'm gonna have to ask about the rooting. I have had my pigs for two days now, and all they have done is root. So much, that it seems they are only eating the roots, even though they have a ton of hay to nibble on.


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## GREENCOUNTYPETE (Jul 25, 2006)

i am looking to clear about 7 acers of overgrown pasture , can i ask what you use for fence when your clearing areas with pigs , i was thinking 2 pigs,the plan is to make most this 7 acers into garden so the more they eat the better i want the grass gone.

also what problems do you have with coyotes and pigs , the area unfortunatly has a fair coyote population , i will be working to thin them down as soon as i can 

i was thinking a pig tractor of sorts that i would put together 4 - 16 foot pannels an drag them forward each day giving them new grass to eat


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## highlands (Jul 18, 2004)

I'm not saying that pigs don't root. Rather pig rooting is an indication of other information and I have found that it can be minimalized through grazing management technique. Mineral deficiency, soil type, wetness, season, pasture type, pig size all affect rooting. I may have more tolerance for rooting for you so maybe that is why I consider ringing unnecessary. Of course, if you want a lawn then pigs, even ringed, may not be the right animal. Sheep and geese leave lawns looking quite nice. 

Coyotes can be a problem with pigs, sheep, chickens, cattle, goats and other livestock. Our solution is livestock guardian and herding dogs. They mark the territory with scent and sound, actively hunt and eat coyotes. If you have strong predator pressures I would suggest working dogs - they're a live(stock) saver. Dogs plus fencing complement each other. Note that dogs work best in teams. A lone dog is prey for a pack.

One problem with thinning the coyote population is when you kill a coyote it opens a slot in the environment for another one to move in near you. Once you train your local population of coyotes to leave your livestock alone things are fine. But that new incoming coyote needs training. Part of the dogs job is to train coyotes and other predators, those that the dogs don't outright eat for being foolish enough to come too close.

I tried the pig tractor idea but it didn't work or us in part because we're on steep uneven terrain. It may work better on flat even ground. I also found it to simply be a lot of work. Poultry netting does work for temporary fencing and provides a larger area so moves don't have to be daily or more. Clip the bottom leads to reduce grounding and tension the corners with pegs.

Cheers

-Walter
Sugar Mountain Farm
Pastured Pigs, Sheep & Kids
in the mountains of Vermont
Read about our on-farm butcher shop project:
http://SugarMtnFarm.com/butchershop
http://SugarMtnFarm.com/csa


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## bruceki (Nov 16, 2009)

Pigs are not vegetarians. If they're well fed and haven't eaten another animal you may not have problems, but they can and will eat any sort of poultry, or any other animal that they can catch (vis the sow eating lambs, above). There will be some interaction between the animals in the same paddock, so expect it. A sore foot from a bite or a kick, a small pig butted over, that sort of stuff. 

Highlands talks quite a bit about rotational grazing, but if you look carefully at his operation you'll note that his whey feeding and hay locations are fixed and never vary. 

I understand the reasoning behind that, but having a fixed location where you feed the animals every single day means you are not rotating, at least not in the ruminant MIG sense. 

MIG (Management Intensive Grazing) is a term that refers to the management of pastures for ruminants, where the animals are given a small paddock, graze it until its exhausted, and then move on to another small paddock. The grazed area is allowed to regrow for a long period -- 4 months, 6 months, in some cases as long as a year, and then the animals revisit it. Highland seems to practice open grazing from the descriptions in his blog -- a large fenced area where the animals can eat whatever they want across the entire pasture. He doesn't have a mobil water supply for his pigs, and he doesn't have a mobil feed supply. In short, he's open grazing -- which works fine, as most of the food his pigs eat is dairy waste of various sorts; the pasture, or lack of it, doesn't make any difference to his operation, in my opinion. In the pictures you can see the well-worn paths that the pigs use to get to and from the centralized feeding station. In the past he's claimed 200 pigs on 10 acres, and I'm going to say from my experience, 10 pigs on an acre of pasture means you have large patches of bare dirt in a single season. Pigs will root a bit on general principal, but they'll root more if they're hungry, and they will develop a wallow and maintain it as mud if they have their pick, for the hot weather (cooling, sunscreen) and for insect control. 

Many producers plant something that is attractive and palatable to pigs; clover and alfalfa being two common choices. If what's on top of the ground is tastier than the roots they'll eat it first. 

Entry on my blog where I talk about planting test plots to see what pigs like to eat

Bruce / ebeyfarm.blogspot.com


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## bruceki (Nov 16, 2009)

a 12 volt electric fence operated off a car battery will maintain a good shock for 2 weeks at a time, and will contain pigs. I use two strands; one about 8" above the ground , and one at 18", on with posts every 16 feet. 

You have to condition the pigs to recognize the electric fence and not challenge it. For that I suggest you do a pinball pen for a few days so that they respect the electric fence, and then you can put them out in a larger area. 

As long as a pig has everything it needs in its paddock it won't try too hard to get out, but don't depend on an electric fence from stopping a boar trying to cover a sow or hungry pigs from food or thirsty pigs from water. 

Bruce / Ebeyfarm.blogspot.com


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## Curtis B (Aug 15, 2008)

bruceki said:


> If what's on top of the ground is tastier than the roots they'll eat it first.
> 
> Entry on my blog where I talk about planting test plots to see what pigs like to eat
> 
> Bruce / ebeyfarm.blogspot.com


That would explain mine rooting for bermuda roots, and leaving the hay.


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## HeritagePigs (Aug 11, 2009)

Well, Curtis, which would you prefer? Dried out hay or fresh, juicy roots? 

Remember too that rooting is not just about getting to the roots. There are lots of tasty worms, grubs and bugs under ground. Rooting is a natural behavior and all pigs do it (environmental differences may determine the amount of rooting, but all pigs will root under suitable circumstances). Since rooting is a natural and healthy behavior it should not be discouraged just for the convenience of the farmer. In many situations rooting improves pasture by encouraging growth of endemic vegetation that often does better than imported varieties. It helps move nutrients from decayed vegetation and animal feces into the root growth zone. 

However, rooting can also be detrimental in certain situations. Disturbing the surface growth can allow erosion; exposure of tree roots can kill the trees; creation of small mounds and holes can injure horses; in rocky ground, rooting brings rocks to the surface. If rooting harms the pasture to the point that it may no longer sustain adequate nutrients for the livestock, or presents unacceptable risks to livestock, then intervention might be appropriate.


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## Curtis B (Aug 15, 2008)

HeritagePigs said:


> Well, Curtis, which would you prefer? Dried out hay or fresh, juicy roots?
> 
> Remember too that rooting is not just about getting to the roots. There are lots of tasty worms, grubs and bugs under ground. Rooting is a natural behavior and all pigs do it (environmental differences may determine the amount of rooting, but all pigs will root under suitable circumstances). Since rooting is a natural and healthy behavior it should not be discouraged just for the convenience of the farmer. In many situations rooting improves pasture by encouraging growth of endemic vegetation that often does better than imported varieties. It helps move nutrients from decayed vegetation and animal feces into the root growth zone.
> 
> However, rooting can also be detrimental in certain situations. Disturbing the surface growth can allow erosion; exposure of tree roots can kill the trees; creation of small mounds and holes can injure horses; in rocky ground, rooting brings rocks to the surface. If rooting harms the pasture to the point that it may no longer sustain adequate nutrients for the livestock, or presents unacceptable risks to livestock, then intervention might be appropriate.


I agree with everything you have said. For me the pigs on pasture is an experiment. I have what seems to be every type of livestock now that I have pigs, accept horses. I am watching very closely as to how all the animals do together, and the impact they have with each other and the land. I can already see how much it costs with a boar and a sow, and I am thinking a few feeders will be what I do in the future, but for now I am watching, keeping track, and making notes. I have looked around, and talked to people in my area, and I am the only one that I know that will have pigs anywhere but a pen. In the very least they will loosen the compacted soil, add manure, taste good, and with any luck seal my leaking pond. To the OP, sorry:hijacked:


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