# Aggressive buck help



## mrstillery09 (Jul 12, 2012)

At the first of August we got a beautiful Nubian buckling. He was born in December, and I wanted him to replace my two Nigerian dwarf bucks (all my girls are full size). He showed signs of rut when we first got him, but behaved nicely. As time is going by he is getting more aggressive. It started by him just slobbering, and blubbering at us. Then he started chasing a bit, and recently started charging. Yesterday he butted me in the thigh. He is dehorned, but obviously this is unacceptable behavior. I have been using a squirt bottle to squirt him when he misbehaves, but if for some reason I don't pay attention is the problem. I have also flipped him over, that seems to help at the moment, but not through the next day! Any other suggestions? Any chance he will calm once he starts breeding and or once he is through rut?


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## Caprice Acres (Mar 6, 2005)

He will likely calm down out of rut, but I'd never trust him. 

Take a big stick or a PVC pipe and give a whallop across the nose for unacceptable behavior. On horned bucks, a good hit to the horns really opens their eyes, too. Yes it will hurt him, but better than him breaking your bones. If he makes you ever think he MIGHT be dangerous, he PROBABLY is. All livestock and especially non castrated males have the ability to be, but some are more so than others.

I always suggest managing bucks in their own pasture(separate from does). A good buck setup ALSO is such that you shouldn't hardly ever have to go in a pen with loose bucks, if ever. 

Use grain feeders (if you feed grain) that clip to the fence that you can fill from the outside of the pen by either reaching through, or making a hole in your fence that each buck can only fit their heads through to eat their ration. One per buck. Make a fenceline hay feeder out of spent fence or an extra cattle panel that they have to reach through or over to eat out of, but that you can fill without going in. Put the water trough right along the fenceline too. 

Keep leashes and heavy dog chain collars clipped to the fence. If you need to go in, call them over and clip them in place, then do whatever needs doing.


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## CarolT (Mar 12, 2009)

My horned buck took it as flirting whenever I hit his horns, even when it was so hard it crossed his eyes. I took a really tough, limber switch and flicked those ears and that backed him off fast. (Bamboo works well.) It is really hard keeping them where you can work with them but respecting your space at the same time.


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## mrstillery09 (Jul 12, 2012)

mygoat said:


> He will likely calm down out of rut, but I'd never trust him.
> 
> Take a big stick or a PVC pipe and give a whallop across the nose for unacceptable behavior. On horned bucks, a good hit to the horns really opens their eyes, too. Yes it will hurt him, but better than him breaking your bones. If he makes you ever think he MIGHT be dangerous, he PROBABLY is. All livestock and especially non castrated males have the ability to be, but some are more so than others.
> 
> ...


I'll give the pvc pipe a try! At this point I'm kind of thankful he doesn't have horns. Our nigerian bucks were absolute angels compared to this guy. I kept them with the girls almost exclusively, except after kidding. I was hoping to do the same with the Nubian (his name is Buddy), but it looks like that won't be possible. Thankfully we do have an extra pen he can go into.



CarolT said:


> My horned buck took it as flirting whenever I hit his horns, even when it was so hard it crossed his eyes. I took a really tough, limber switch and flicked those ears and that backed him off fast. (Bamboo works well.) It is really hard keeping them where you can work with them but respecting your space at the same time.


At first I was flicking his ears. Works like a charm on all of our ladies! But it didn't seem to phase him...but with a switch maybe! I'm willing to try anything!


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## cmany (Jan 28, 2014)

I am not a fan of hitting them with anything but water...I will tell you why...

My buck is a 3 year old Boer, and he does have horns. His first rut, yes, if he got unruly, I often had a bamboo stick, and it did work...but in his 2nd year, he went into a spring rut, and he was unusually aggressive...he was older, bigger, and much stronger...

He ended up coming at me, and I tried beating him away - did NOT work...and I ended up on the ground. Thankfully, event tho dangerous, he has horns, as I had something to hold on to, and ended up bench pressing his 200lbs...while he was in a full attack mode...my feet were kicking at his back feet as he tried stomping me, and I was able to keep him from ramming me, because I had horns to hold on to.

Without those horns, I would have been beaten up pretty bad...His regular rut, Aug-Dec, he is much more docile, because the ladies go into heat, in the spring...they usually don't, although I have had it happen...

Water...and not a squirt bottle...A bucket with a cup, or even one of those high powered water guns...a hose...something that you can stream water constantly at him...

I had talked to a guy once, who did have an unruly buck in rut, and he said, yes, water worked best...but, once time, he didn't have water, but had a rake...when the buck reared up at him..he cracked him in the chest...and he never did it again...

I actually had an old doe, who did that to younger does, she would wait until the doe would rear up and then she would plow them in the chest...they never repeated that with them...

My first buck was a pure Nubian, and was dehorned...and he went after me all the time at 9 months of age...at one point, the only thing I had was a one inch thick board, that I broke over his head...and he kept coming...we slaughtered him once he was done, as his aggression was too much...

Yes, after describing my Boer, you'd think that too...but another time, I ticked him off and he chased me and I fell. He went to come at me, and I wrapped my arms around his horns and cranked his neck with all my strength, and he stopped dead, let me use him to get up...and behaved...

I have tried jolt guns...which was eventually how I got him off me with the big attack, my daughter got it in my hand while I was on my back, and I held him up with one hand, and jammed the points of the gun in his nose and mouth...he backed off and I got up and ran...but other than that one time, and I presume it was because of where I got him...the Jolt Gun only angers him more...

Now...its water, water, water...We always keep water handy...the only time that hasn't worked, is when he was breeding a doe that I didn't want bred...he stood and took the hose full blast...so did she...otherwise...it has proven to be our best protection against him...

What we were told about beating them back, is that eventually, most bucks will just red zone essentially after they have had enough, and will charge harder...

I have since learned to read his body language, and especially his ears, and can tell when he's getting ready to come at me. And I will angle the water to try and get him right in the eyes, which he hates the most...I try to soak his head and face, and it will take the fight right out of him...

Good luck and be careful

Christine


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## Phil V. (May 31, 2013)

When I raised pygmies and had bucks of my own I never let women around them because of aggression of breeding season. A friend that has 6 bucks of 3 different breeds has her husband handle them because of the size. She also has the older 4-h boys handle them for her and I go help out with them as well. I keep telling goat newbies around here to watch out for bucks with their wife/girlfriend because they can tell if it's that time of the month for them. I know this first hand because a buck tried breeding a friend's sister when it was that time for her. Sorry if I offended anybody about the way I described and the reason that my friend's and I keep women away from bucks during breeding season.


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## luckyinkentucky (Feb 15, 2013)

I've had the same experience. My boys can definitely tell when it's that "time" and I have learned to stay outside of the fence....They are dh's responsibility for that week....


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## Lady89 (Feb 22, 2014)

Horses will try to breed a woman in that time of month as well. Thankfully I have never had a bull try


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## wiscto (Nov 24, 2014)

Just out of curiosity, in this situation is it better or worse to bring the dog into the pen if you absolutely have to go near the bucks? I know every dog is different, but in general?


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## Lady89 (Feb 22, 2014)

I would say just bring a big stick to smack him one if you have to handle a buck when it is your time of the mouth. I really don't know if a dog would make it better or not the buck might go after a dog, seeing it as trying to "steal" you away


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## copperpennykids (Sep 6, 2004)

mygoat said:


> He will likely calm down out of rut, but I'd never trust him.
> 
> Take a big stick or a PVC pipe and give a whallop across the nose for unacceptable behavior. On horned bucks, a good hit to the horns really opens their eyes, too. Yes it will hurt him, but better than him breaking your bones. If he makes you ever think he MIGHT be dangerous, he PROBABLY is. All livestock and especially non castrated males have the ability to be, but some are more so than others.
> 
> ...


THIS for good management practices for any and all bucks. NEVER EVER turn your back on a buck - even your "raised it myself bottle baby".

However, to deal with your particular buck - I would suggest a Hot shot. A few zaps with that and he will give you a wide berth. Get the one with the long handle (not the pistol one). We "trained" our bucks with this and you could soon go into the pen with a long stick and make a zzzt zzzt noise while pointing it at him and he would move far away. They really hate electricity.


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## cfuhrer (Jun 11, 2013)

I'm sorry, I don't buy all that time-of-the-month nonsense. 

My sister and I have been handling bucks, rams, stallions and bulls for over 20 years and our mom and grandmother's for longer than that and have never had a lick of trouble that good management and competent handling didn't take care of.


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## luckyinkentucky (Feb 15, 2013)

I have found mine generally react to the waterhose. However, this year I finally had one that it just seemed to aggravate, so I intend to get a hot stick, just in case. With the boys weighing twice as much as me, I can't take the chance. I've never been attacked or mounted, but they go crazy when I get near them at that "time". Hubby noticed the same phenomenon, so it was a mutual decision that he would deal with them, better safe than sorry. My boys are very tame, but they are still males with hormones......
I don't have any dogs big enough to make a difference in a goat pen, so I guess that would depend on the dog and goat relationship. If the goat is intimidated by the dog, and the dog will defend you that could be helpful. I really like mygoats suggestions, and will be implementing new practices here. Thanks Dona!


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## mrstillery09 (Jul 12, 2012)

Just thought I'd give a quick update. Buddy is doing better. I used water for awhile but didn't have it with me. I used a switch which he really seemed to respect. I've also taken to keeping an eye on him, but ignoring him. Giving him attention seems to make him forget all his manners. Things have been much better, though there is still room for improvement. Thanks for all the ideas and advice!


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## Laura Workman (May 10, 2002)

The only trouble I've ever had from any of my bucks has been when they get too nosy about what I'm doing in their pen and get in my space. My boys are always dam-raised among the adult does for their first two months, so maybe that makes a difference? Plus, I teach them to walk on a lead, and that probably helps them to know who's who in the zoo. I also have English Shepherds, and when I go in the buck pen, I bring at least one dog. I usually make the dog stay by the gate unless I ask them to discourage an overly snoopy buck. Being herding dogs, they won't take any crap from a buck, and will dodge around and nip, or even bite, until the buck backs off. I love my farm dogs!


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## Agriculture (Jun 8, 2015)

cfuhrer said:


> I'm sorry, I don't buy all that time-of-the-month nonsense.
> 
> My sister and I have been handling bucks, rams, stallions and bulls for over 20 years and our mom and grandmother's for longer than that and have never had a lick of trouble that good management and competent handling didn't take care of.


Right on. I just laugh when I hear someone come out with that line too. Would anyone who thinks that it is true please explain to me how exactly does an animal associate a menstruating woman with an ovulating animal of it's own species, especially since both biological processes are essentially almost the exact opposite? Maybe I missed something in Biology 101, but what exactly is the similarity, other than maybe both producing discharge (depending on species)? By that measure, then anyone with a runny nose should also expect unwanted advances by intact male animals.

In my experience, many who make those claims use them as an excuse to account for their lack of understanding of animal behavior and how to change or control it. Hint: if you consider an animal to have manners, that might be part of the problem.


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## motdaugrnds (Jul 3, 2002)

I can understand being around a "dangerous/untrustworthy" buck; however, the ONE I had like that had good cause to be that way. I was new to goat raising at the time he was born and didn't take his horns off until they were so large a vet had to saw them off (with sedation). He was raised by his dam and, if it weren't for her, I'ld have been hurt several times. (She would actually talk to him and he would change his mind....This was when I saw him heading my way with his head down.) When grown he weighed over 250 lbs and was quite beautiful; however, he was not trustworthy. The ONE time I hit him in order to correct his bad behavior he got very angry and went after a nearby box. I managed to get a 5 gal water bucket between him and myself until he calmed down. Now this is the buck my son ENJOYED playing with while it was growing. David would run at him and push him. The buckling would charge David, rise up on his hind feet and then "gently" come down right in front of David and "very gently" push David in the chest. So this "playful" behavior let that buck learn some bad behaviors and as it matured he used those behaviors on humans. Thus, I believe David and I caused this bad behavior. 

*ALL other bucks I've had *(and kept) were bottle fed and NEVER played with, only petted. They all were sweet even during rut; and my favorite, Roman (seen in my avatar), would never, never try to hurt me even if I got between him and a doe he was interested in.

What I'm saying is that I believe we actually reap from our animals what we sow. And a goat has a memory like an elephant...


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## mrstillery09 (Jul 12, 2012)

I'm actually pretty sure this guy was handled and with people WAY too much as he grew up. I think he was basically a pet. He has been with my girls since October with them going into heat and he isn't breeding them. In fact, he doesn't seem to understand that they are the same as him. All of his aggression I think is just him wanting to breed us. Has anyone ever dealt with THAT issue before? Any chance he'll ever figure out he's supposed to be romancing the girls, not us?


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## Lady89 (Feb 22, 2014)

He should figure it out on his own if not it may be time for roast buck


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## mrstillery09 (Jul 12, 2012)

Lady89 said:


> He should figure it out on his own if not it may be time for roast buck


Being as he's so pretty, I'm giving him some time. But he's definitely going to end up on the table if he can't get over his identity crisis!


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## boerboy (Oct 7, 2012)

Lady89 said:


> He should figure it out on his own if not it may be time for roast buck


at 11 years I lived in a place where stray dogs are common. Also many people let their dogs free in streets....
One day a big dog climbed on a girl and started humping.. Next moment I saw someone got the dog off of her and kill it in one blow with a wooden pole. No one spoke a word. Someone took the dog to bury....
For some reason this memory is strong in my brain....


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## boerboy (Oct 7, 2012)

mygoat said:


> He will likely calm down out of rut, but I'd never trust him.
> 
> Take a big stick or a PVC pipe and give a whallop across the nose for unacceptable behavior. On horned bucks, a good hit to the horns really opens their eyes, too. Yes it will hurt him, but better than him breaking your bones. If he makes you ever think he MIGHT be dangerous, he PROBABLY is. All livestock and especially non castrated males have the ability to be, but some are more so than others.
> 
> ...


With an aggressive buck this is what I would do. The moment you fight it the game is on. The key is to make him learn he cannot even have a fight with you.


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## CarolT (Mar 12, 2009)

Make sure he's not doing his job before you cull him. It doesn't take long and some of my girls stl act like floozies, even after his job is done. That's why I keep them separate and know a breeding is happening. I then run a pregnancy check and I know when to expect kids and don't have to deal with a buck protecting does either.


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## animalfarmer (Feb 14, 2006)

mygoat's advise is very sound here, if he gives you reason to think he's dangerous, he probably is.
Be very careful around this animal.
With so many good bucks available, I have no patience with dangerous ones.
Lady89's conclusion is also very sound and accurate, and the one that I myself would pursue.
Separate him from the doe's for a few weeks and grain him up a little. When he looks good, get the sticking knife. You may have a lot invested in him but he'll do better by you in your freezer and on your table, than you having to constantly worry about him attacking you. Just my two cents.
Best of luck.


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## boerboy (Oct 7, 2012)

I bought a purebred Boer buck last month. He is horned and in rut. The owner said he pushes her around and acts very dominant with people and goats. He challenged me few times. I can clearly tell someone had played with him when he was young. Petting a buckling is one thing and playing (pushing, wrestling, etc) is entirely an other thing. IMO never play with a buckling.

I once hit him on his horns and he got mad and charged an other buck. 

He often stays close to me even when the girls are away. He loves to be brushed especially his cheeks, neck and beard. I do that everyday. He never makes physical contact first. Also never charges while I walk around or away from him. He also does so good with halter. I consider him tame. 

But as mygoat said I will never trust him.


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## gila_dog (Jun 17, 2011)

I just posted this in another thread, but it seems to apply here as well.




gila_dog said:


> That buck sounds hopeless. But it it possible to give an aggressive goat an attitude adjustment when he's younger and keep him from becoming dangerous. You squat down next to him, reach across under him, get ahold of both opposite side ankles, and then lean on him until he falls over on his side. This is called "flipping" him. Then immediately climb on top of him and sit on him. Not with all your weight, so that he can't breathe, but enough to keep him from getting his legs under himself. And keep sitting on him. He will fight and try to get up, but won't be able to with your weight on him and his legs out to the side. Eventually he will calm down. Keep sitting on him. And sit on him some more. He may start trembling and crying out. Keep sitting on him. Do this for 5-10 minutes or so. Maybe let a child come up tug on his beard or ears (gently). Have another person do it, just to bug him and show him that all humans can mess with him if they feel like it. That all humans are above him on the pecking order. When you finally let him up he will probably have a whole new attitude. He's been humiliated and you're the one who did it. He may never forget it, but if he does, flip him again and give him another attitude adjustment. It really works. I've seen it done to aggressive wethers by expert goat packers, and I've done it myself. An oddly, they don't seem to hold a grudge or be fearful of you afterwards. You didn't actually cause him any pain, you just dominated him psychologically and made him feel helpless. But he will sure have a different opinion of you after such an attitude adjustment.


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## cfuhrer (Jun 11, 2013)

gila_dog said:


> I just posted this in another thread, but it seems to apply here as well.


I can't say anything for or against this method but there might be something to it.

I can offer anecdotal evidence that I lay all my goats down when I trim their feet, and I've never had a buck that was aggressive.


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## Wingdo (Oct 5, 2002)

wiscto said:


> Just out of curiosity, in this situation is it better or worse to bring the dog into the pen if you absolutely have to go near the bucks? I know every dog is different, but in general?


I have a Pyrenees that imprinted on me years ago and has kept my Boers in line quite well. At feeding time each morning I usually feed the goats first, then the chickens and BG last. When she comes into the barn it is much like Moses and the red sea... the goats (bucks and does) move away from their feed, let her pass and then go back at it like they're starved to death.
She teaches the new ones quickly by wrapping her big fat foreleg around their necks and lays them down, if she thinks it is necessary... they scream like they're being killed, but after I saw her do it the first time I butted out and gave her the field.
A good dog doesn't ask for a problem, and generally deserves the job, so in my opinion, yes, take the dog in with you... there's a lot of mutual respect can be learned from an honest top dog.


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## boerboy (Oct 7, 2012)

gila_dog said:


> I just posted this in another thread, but it seems to apply here as well.


It is strange because I did exactly this with one of my buck... But purely out of instinct. When he got up I approached him and he moved away. 

Same with aggressive roosters. I carry them under my shoulder like a kid for 10 minutes. Works like magic.


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