# Can a pitbull be taught to herd sheep?



## unregistered168043 (Sep 9, 2011)

I'm having this discussion with my girlfriend. She says she can teach her 1.5 year old pitbull to herd our sheep....I dont think he has the instinct, but not really sure...what say you? Can it be done?


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## Ross (May 9, 2002)

Has your girl friend trained any dog to herd sheep? Pitbulls are not a herding breed, nor are they especially noted in the obedience rings. I'd be more impressed if the pitbull could fly a plane ....... and that'd probably be easier to teach it.


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## MDKatie (Dec 13, 2010)

Probably stranger things have happened, but I would not want it to learn on MY sheep!


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## Slev (Nov 29, 2003)

umm,...no.

However, that being said I have seen one of the top sheepdog handlers in the country actual "shed" some of her sheep to use for dog training with a yellow lab. It looked very impressive as she sorted the sheep and pulled out the ones she wanted and asked the dog to "put the others away" (Now, what actually happened was the correct positioning she had placed herself and that Lab between the sheep; and any dog being called to you can have an affect on sheep as they fear for their lives.) Likewise, I've seen folks with herding blood in their dog try to explain to me how their dog "herds" whatever form of other living creature, (including fish in a fish tank) but sometimes, it's not herding at all its just movement and reaction to movement that looks like herding to some people. 

....but then again, there's no way a human being can ever walk on the Moon, or that a bumblebee can fly either...


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## wendle (Feb 22, 2006)

Prey drive is often mistaken for herding instinct. Most dogs have prey drive, but it doesn't mean they will do any kind of good or safe job herding sheep. Keep in mind the welfare of your sheep. When the dog is chasing, they could very well think they are running for their lives. Hear attacks can happen as well as running into fences causing injury or death. I wouldn't recommend it.


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## JasoninMN (Feb 24, 2006)

There are pit bulls that have been titled in herding and there are people who use them to move harder stock like cattle. While it may be possible, it would certainly be easier to train a traditional herding dog and it wouldn't be recommended for someone who has never trained a dog to herd before. Unless your GF has complete control over the dog, it wouldn't take long for there to be dead sheep either.


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## whodunit (Mar 29, 2004)

As a kid we had a lovely pitbull.

She taught herself to herd our goats, I had to use hand signals for her as she was often to far to hear me. It started as her going out with me when I would bring the goats in. She figured out what I needed and I gave the commands. Sure beat me trying to keep up with the goats on over 100 acres of very steep ground.

That dog was extremely intelligent, we loved her so.

Mrs Whodunit


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## BarbadosSheep (Jun 27, 2011)

My pit bull Bailey helped us move goats once in a while. She was extordinarly smart and learned things FAST. Most Pit bulls, if allowed to chase the sheep, won't stop until they catch one. NOT a good idea to try it.


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## hastyreply (Nov 10, 2012)

Herding instinct is prey drive. You could. I knew someone who trained a coonhound to herd sheep on a bet! I would say the biggest problem with letting her train her dog on your sheep is if pit grips it can do much more serious damage than say a border collie. I've known titled herding dogs who have zero instinct but have great obedience and with a handler who can read stock can be positioned in the right spot. Can you do it? Yes. Would I let someone do it with my sheep? NO!


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## bknthesdle (Mar 27, 2011)

We have a pit bull. She was great for working cows and keeping you safe. She went blind two years ago and since then she's been nothing but a couch potato.


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## wendle (Feb 22, 2006)

hastyreply said:


> Herding instinct is prey drive. You could. I knew someone who trained a coonhound to herd sheep on a bet! I would say the biggest problem with letting her train her dog on your sheep is if pit grips it can do much more serious damage than say a border collie. I've known titled herding dogs who have zero instinct but have great obedience and with a handler who can read stock can be positioned in the right spot. Can you do it? Yes. Would I let someone do it with my sheep? NO!


Herding instinct is a modified form of prey drive, but prey drive is not automatically herding. Those dogs that are only utilizing training and prey drive can be successful in smaller controlled(fenced) areas and/or on trained sheep. When you take those same dogs out in the open(no fencing or larger pastures) on untrained sheep things generally fall apart and you have sheep in every direction while the dog repeatedly splits and chases as he is typically lacking in any desire to keep the sheep gathered. You could try to position your dog mechanically, but most people cannot read sheep well enough to put their dog in the right place to move the sheep in a desired direction.


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## haypoint (Oct 4, 2006)

While a Healer might herd as a form of prey drive. Border Collies herd by moving stock towards me. Healers move by controlled movement away from me, like chasing them into another padock.
A Pit Bull's instincts vary. Some make poor pets, some make good pets. Turning a pit bull out into a sheep pasture is a rough way to test personality.
Sort of like hunting with a Boxer, milking an Angus, eating Leghorns, and using a Lab in a dogfight ring. Can be done, but the success are limited, at best.


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## lonelyfarmgirl (Feb 6, 2005)

Actually, pitbulls excel in the obedience ring. Pitbulls are very responsive to their owners and are not difficult to teach distance hand commands to. This can be utilized to herd sheep regardless of instinct.

To the OP. In order for your girlfriend to do this successfully, she needs to be able to teach the dog to
-stop and drop from a distance
-go in the direction she points or looks, from a distance
-trail an animal without touching it at a consistent distance without giving in to the prey and chase instinct to run faster and faster to catch up


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## Ross (May 9, 2002)

There are some with extensive pitbull experience posting on the Pet forum feel free to cross post the question there.


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## pancho (Oct 23, 2006)

My pit bulls were trained on hand signals. Some were obedience trained.
Some whistle trained.
If I cared about the sheep I don't think I would take the chance.
Do you have a pair of breaking sticks? You may need them.


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## KimTN (Jan 16, 2007)

I used pit bulls for guardians about 15 years ago. They weren't much good at herding, but they were great a catch and hold. They never hurt the sheep, but they would grab it by the shoulder wool, drag it to the ground and pin it until I could get there. They could be directed to the sheep I wanted. 

They also killed tons of dogs. My fences were just barbed wire and stray dogs would crawl under the fence and get after the sheep. We found lots of big dog breeds just lying about in the pastures were the pits had killed them. Never lost a sheep. I think pit bulls can make good stock dogs in some cases.


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## Clancy (Jan 5, 2013)

Not even all sheep dogs can be taught to herd sheep. I have a couple bullies, they don't have any instinct to herd, which is different than just chasing them around.


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## Bret4207 (May 31, 2008)

I think it would depend entirely on the particular dog. I've known Labs that had no retrieving instinct, many Spaniels that had no hunting nose or marking ability, Border Collies with zero herding instinct. If you had a Pit that was really biddable and showed little aggressive tendencies it might be doable. In that case it would depend on the handler and the sheep too. Sheep that have been herded react differently than sheep that have never been herded at all.

I think it'd be a tough row to hoe.


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## Jersey/guernsey (Nov 12, 2012)

With the right training and a willing dog anything is possible.
We have a pit mix that taught himself to herd the cows and can put them in either the lot or barn on voice command depending what gate I want to use. 
Never runs them and is gentle as can be.


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## StockDogLovr (Apr 13, 2009)

I have working bred Aussies, only the last of which has had true talent to work and was bred very carefully to do so by one of the top working Aussies in the country. As many have stated in this thread, sure it can be done, with the right dog! I fully believe that there have been special dogs of any breed that just had such a desire to be a partner with their owner and were smart enough to figure out what the task at hand was, that they actually were useful.

We had a bottle lamb that thought it was a dog. It would go hiking in the pasture with us. A friend came along for a hike one day with his bully-type dog. The dog seemed to have no ill-will towards the lamb, so we let him off leash. When the lamb got boinky, the dog actually chased after it and my heart jumped in my throat...until I saw the dog run past the lamb and turn him! When the lamb ran the other way, the dog would outrun him and turn him! No bite! I thought, by gosh, that dog could maybe actually herd! No one was interested in finding out, though, and I didn't have a round pen to try and find out.

My trainer starts all dogs in a round pen so that she can always be in a position to push the dog to the outside of the circle, thereby facilitating the dog getting to head and turning the sheep towards the handler, the beginning of the fetch. That would be the ONLY way I would attempt to see if this pit had any ability/desire to work. She also has them drag a long line - she holds onto it long enough to determine what the dog's intentions are and only when it is clear the dog isn't going to dive in and bite does she release the line and let the dog drag it. I would want to see that the pit had no desire to dive in and bite before I even attempted it.

Agreed, though - get your girlfriend a working bred dog if she's got the interest!


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## hastyreply (Nov 10, 2012)

Most farmers want what they call a farm dog, or routine dog or trainers call them pattern dogs. Sheep (all stock) move off of pressure. Dogs are pressure (so are people, fences, buildings... just about anything). Most people want a dog that will do the same thing over and over again and leave the stock pretty much alone. Most dogs who want to please and has some obedience can do this. 

The problem comes when a sheep stands up to them or your asking for something out of the routine and the dog and sheep don't know what you want. Either the dog will back away from the sheep or will confront the sheep more aggressively. A dog like a pittie can do a lot of damage before they realize it. 

I have some friends who train bouviers. They have trained some of the top bouvs in the country. When I first met them they had big male who to me didn't even look like he was working. He was so much pressure to the sheep that he could just move a few feet and they would go where he wanted. They said they had to work him at that distance because he was so powerful. When they first started him he killed a couple of sheep, just grabbing them. He was just trying to stop them from bolting. He couldn't be used for close work and he was just trialed for his titles. They have a very nice female who can work just about anything.


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## RedRidge (Jan 28, 2013)

A good herding dog requires to training... only guidance.
Same is true with an lgd.
Most herding breeds have had that quality instinct bred out of them, so a non-herding breed would not be a good choice imo.
That's not to say they aren't good dogs... just not something I would trust around my livestock. 
My trained and titled herding dogs only spend time on livestock with supervision.
My lgd's live with the livestock...
Both doing what their instinct has them doing...


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## Fowler (Jul 8, 2008)

I wouldnt have a pitbull near my sheep.


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