# wicked weiners recipe safe??



## beaglebiz (Aug 5, 2008)

I looked up the wicked weiners recipe for canning on the recipe book forum....its on the first page...says to water bath can for 15 minutes...
weiners are pork/beef/chicken (and or) fillers. This cant be safe right?? should be 90 minutes pressure canned at ten lbs like regular meat dishes??


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## judylou (Jun 19, 2009)

You are absolutely right. BWB canning of it would be patently unsafe.


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## amyd (Mar 21, 2005)

FWIW I made a batch last summer using some jalapenos I was given. I used good quality beef hot dogs and pressure canned pints like beef dishes. I guess with the heat and long cooking time, the ketchup broke down and became bitter. They tasted almost burned. We opened one pint for new years, I refused to put them out for our guests and threw the other six pints away.


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## Ed Norman (Jun 8, 2002)

Regular meat dishes aren't drenched in preservatives like weiners are. I would bet they would be safe. Nitrates, nitrites, all that good stuff.


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## beaglebiz (Aug 5, 2008)

Thanks, I think Im going to skip this one. I was thinking about the nitrates too, but when I canned other meat (ham ends and bacon) that contains nitrates, it was still pressure canned.


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## judylou (Jun 19, 2009)

I still am not able to locate the recipe - would really like to see it pulled by the moderator if possible or at the very least have a safety disclaimer added to it. Even meats literally full of nitrates and nitrites still have to be pressure canned. 

This really concerns me and makes me wonder how many seriously unsafe recipes may be posted here with no disclaimers or even recommendations for safer alternatives. We all know they exist in great numbers on some of the unmonitored recipe sites out there where anyone can post just about anything, but I would sincerely hope we could provide a much higher quality here.


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## beaglebiz (Aug 5, 2008)

post number 6 I think on the online recipe book for canned goods
http://www.homesteadingtoday.com/showthread.php?t=189363


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## judylou (Jun 19, 2009)

Thanks. It is in the Pickles, Jams, Jellies, Canning, Drying, Freezing, etc. section of the book - weird! I was searching through all the meats and main dishes categories.


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## Karen (Apr 17, 2002)

I'm not going to delete the recipe as all recipes stand as they are posted by the OP and without ever having any changes be made (unless requested by the OP). The reason being, this is not a published cookbook, is not quality control, etc. This is simply friends sharing recipes. You may, indeed, find disagreeable preserving methods, ingredients, etc.; however, we need to treat them just as you would any recipe handed to you -- either keep it in mind for the future, or discard it. 

Canning procedure disagreements comes up all the time and there are many different views of pressure vs. water bath. It just depends on which side your on and how you feel about what the "experts" say. 

My position is that this is a forum; a discussion board. There will be different views and methods presented. We each need to make our own decision on that topic and are responsible for carefully considering anything that uses an unapproved 'recommendation'. However, I don't feel it is for me to insist on any method. Again, this is a place to share and discuss and we're not the canning police. 

With all of that said, I will meet half way do a disclaimer in the introductory canning post, as well as a stickey to the cookbook forum that says: _ "It is highly recommended that you use only USDA approved canning and cooking methods; therefore, please do your research before using any canning/preserving/cooking methods suggested by the posters of any of these recipes"._


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## judylou (Jun 19, 2009)

Thanks, Karen. I appreciate the posted disclaimer.

Unfortunately I have to disagree that "this is not a published cookbook" as it is - quite published - just as is anything readily available to the public on the web. Not for profit, true, which would incur a greater responsibility to the public, but "published" nonetheless with the attached responsibilities.

And I agree that "canning procedure disagreements comes up all the time and there are many different views". Nor is there such thing as a canning police. Each elects to follow the established, tested, and approved guidelines, or not, all on their own. 

However in this particular case, we are talking about more than just "disagreeable preserving methods". They are scientifically documented potentially lethal ones. I sincerely believe that all of us should share in the responsibility to help the new and uninformed by providing them with at least the minimal safety information lest they make what could be a very risky choice.

It would be the ideal if the original poster took this responsibility when posting a recipe. But when that is lacking others need to step in. Since, unlike other online recipe book sites, isn't possible for others to add notes to those recipes perhaps a change in format that would allow Comments/Reviews could be considered? Or perhaps an email from the moderator asking the OP if a modification could be attached to this particular recipe wouldn't be out of line?

Thank you for your consideration of the issues.


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## oberhaslikid (May 13, 2002)

judylou said:


> I still am not able to locate the recipe - would really like to see it pulled by the moderator if possible or at the very least have a safety disclaimer added to it. Even meats literally full of nitrates and nitrites still have to be pressure canned.
> 
> This really concerns me and makes me wonder how many seriously unsafe recipes may be posted here with no disclaimers or even recommendations for safer alternatives. We all know they exist in great numbers on some of the unmonitored recipe sites out there where anyone can post just about anything, but I would sincerely hope we could provide a much higher quality here.


Well In that case I must be a dead woman walking around cause I have made it for years and ate it for years.If you feel it needs to be pressure canned then do so.


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## suitcase_sally (Mar 20, 2006)

Seems to me that pressure canning it would turn it to mush.

Here in Michigan they have a legendary brand (Koegels) of pickled bologna that is made with vinegar and comes in a plastic jar (used to be glass) and I know that the plastic hasn't been put through a retort.

http://www.koegelmeats.com/


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## judylou (Jun 19, 2009)

Thank you for taking the time to reply, oberhaslikid. Making it using only a BWB is clearly your choice to do as I said. It is your risk to take, although I do hope you understand that just because it hasn't made you ill to date isn't the same thing as saying it is safe or proper to do it this way. Per the USDA:


> There are no safe options for canning meats in a boiling water canner.


And it isn't a question of "how I feel it should be done", although as a certified canning instructor I do feel obligated to point out such concerns. It is a question of safety for those who may not be experienced or knowledgeable enough about canning safety to make an informed decision.

All I am seeking is safety for all. That perhaps a note could be attached to the recipe that BWB canning of any recipe containing meats is not considered a safe practice per the standard USDA guidelines and a suggestion that readers check those guidelines prior to deciding how they will process this recipe. Those guidelines as well as additional information on safely canning meat and meat products are readily available in any approved canning cookbook and online at USDA/NCHFP http://www.uga.edu/nchfp/


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## Ed Norman (Jun 8, 2002)

suitcase_sally said:


> Seems to me that pressure canning it would turn it to mush.
> 
> Here in Michigan they have a legendary brand (Koegels) of pickled bologna that is made with vinegar and comes in a plastic jar (used to be glass) and I know that the plastic hasn't been put through a retort.
> 
> http://www.koegelmeats.com/


I'm intrigued and a bit horrified. What happens when you open the jar? Does a wet smelly hunk of bologna slide out with a plop?


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## judylou (Jun 19, 2009)

> and I know that the plastic hasn't been put through a retort.


You are absolutely right Sally. However the contents have been irradiated prior to packing to kill any and all bacteria and then vacuum sealed in the containers. If we home canners had access to all the commercial canning machinery then we too could change many of our practices.

As to whether pressure canning would mush the weiners, that would all depend on the processing time required. It may be as short as 20 minutes or as long as 90 minutes. There simply is no way to tell how much time is required with made-up recipes that are originally intended for fresh eating, not canning.


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## Keelenorth (May 17, 2003)

Would Not the boiling of the wieners for 10 minutes , Make it safe ? I wounder if Vacum sealing would help ?


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## Karen (Apr 17, 2002)

I always appreciate the interest in the safety of others, but when it comes to canning, there is a highly controversial and opinionated way of doing it. 

Let me just say that, despite what you may have been told, canning safety is not a proven fact. Records of botulism deaths and illnesses are kept; however, no records are kept on how many people have gotten sicken or died from home canned food. None!

I will also add that if Americans saw the way canning is done in other countries, they would gasp (or throw up..lol)! We're not talking about 3rd world countries here, it's countries like France, England, Germany, etc. 

With all due respect (and I mean that with my whole heart), I don't really feel any of us should be playing canning police. It's okay to mention that there are other (more recommended) ways of canning, but it comes down to personal preference. If you want to follow the safer to-the-letter method, then do it; if on the other hand someone wishes to do it according to the older methods, that's up to them. They bear the responsibility; not this forum.


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