# The insults keep on coming!



## tab (Aug 20, 2002)

I have been trying to sift thru this mess and have spent way too much time trying to do so. I thought I was getting it sorted out and I think I am. Sadly, not anything positive. I was just reading a thread in Cattle and wound up in the administrative forum. A NUMBER of threads are being moved. Well, that indicates to me that Monday is clean up. Get the posts where there is less exposure as that board is NOT well visited.

In reading the ceo's "explanation" and subsequent posts ovet many pages my thought was he sounds like a petulant child that keeps repeating " I said I was sorry!" After seeing him use a phrase that ban posters, having it pointed out and using it again, well it shows me several things. He did not care about the tone and rules of this forum. Basically, it was two big old birds, flying high. If I want that, I can go drive in a city. Just the fact he and Angie have used HST rather than HT tells me lots. Nuances maybe, but nuances can tell much.

Reading Angie's responses, as I posted in her thread, is very disappointing. As I really think about it, maybe not surprising as there have been liitle indicators that things are "amiss".

A couple of years ago there was some discord, nothing too bad but I got a PM from Angie. I was quite surprised to find an invitation to another site which she was an admin. I went to cheaphomesteading.com but was not impressed and eventually deleted the link. NOW, it is making more sense. I did not know why a key mod would encourage splntering instead of trying to reconcile. This happened years ago when a group went off to the "dark side" and formed the alter ego to HT. I found it puzzling at the time that this was being encouraged again.

Another concern of late is the number of ads. I signed on as a guest one day and it is horrific! Bad enough what I get as a member. And they are for most everything. About the only ads that aren't here are for ed pills and porn. That is a sad state of affairs.

The fact ht is losing Melissa is telling. If the new owners were truly respectful of the level of knowledge and community this forum has generated and supports, I believe EVERY effort would be made to avoid the exodus. If it means a TOS that is NOT standard for the "industry", so be it. But, again, am not seeing that. If the respect was there, they exodus would be addressed directly, publicly, posting and asking individually what can be done to avoid someone like Melissa leaving. I did not see that in her thread.

I believe the sense of community and friendship that has kept me here, even after leaving at one point b/c of time constaints, is not just damaged but shattered. This site is not going to go away but it already has become much more superficial and disrespectful. The tone of gc has spread and you know what happens when things spread, be it weeds, pooh or disrespect.

As to advice, don't have any. I feel a valuable resource has become much less valuable. Maybe that was the goal. Apparently pm's can be published but if anyone has a good site, privately owned, please pm me. I doubt it will be published, deleted maybe. 

Personally I am going to hold on a bit. Am waiting to see if CF responds to my wuestions in his thread. I need to really look at the ads. Pony had an excellent point about who exactly are we supporting. This requires a bit more thought. Although it may be like the neighbor that throws their trash on your property. After that you only deal with that person when needed.


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## fordy (Sep 13, 2003)

tab said:


> I have been trying to sift thru this mess and have spent way too much time trying to do so. I thought I was getting it sorted out and I think I am. Sadly, not anything positive. I was just reading a thread in Cattle and wound up in the administrative forum. A NUMBER of threads are being moved. Well, that indicates to me that Monday is clean up. Get the posts where there is less exposure as that board is NOT well visited.
> 
> In reading the ceo's "explanation" and subsequent posts ovet many pages my thought was he sounds like a petulant child that keeps repeating " I said I was sorry!" After seeing him use a phrase that ban posters, having it pointed out and using it again, well it shows me several things. He did not care about the tone and rules of this forum. Basically, it was two big old birds, flying high. If I want that, I can go drive in a city. Just the fact he and Angie have used HST rather than HT tells me lots. Nuances maybe, but nuances can tell much.
> 
> ...


 ..................As you noted "Melissa" is the very essence of integrity of the character of this board ! She , cannot be replaced , and her departure is a real loss for all of us who have known her through the years . , fordy


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## sss3 (Jul 15, 2007)

Think being careful that sites considered joining aren't owned by Carbon Media is a good idea.


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## where I want to (Oct 28, 2008)

I keep wondering what the advantage is for Carbon Media to have wanted to initiate and grow sites that duplicate HT subforums anyway. Does it generate ad revenue to have advertisers buy on a dozen smaller sites than pay for one larger one? Is HT being in essence being broken up to sell the pieces at a higher price than one larger site could bring? Otherwise, why create competing sites? Are we doomed staying or going anyway?


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## Muleman (Nov 8, 2013)

I am not sure they would be a competing site myself. Simply put they may be, but in all honesty I think the internet is still big enough to support many duplicate sites without adversely affecting any of them. Not saying that as a good thing or bad thing. Just does not seem this market is saturated yet to the point of there not being enough customers (posters) to support more sites.


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## where I want to (Oct 28, 2008)

Muleman said:


> I am not sure they would be a competing site myself. Simply put they may be, but in all honesty I think the internet is still big enough to support many duplicate sites without adversely affecting any of them. Not saying that as a good thing or bad thing. Just does not seem this market is saturated yet to the point of there not being enough customers (posters) to support more sites.


I was thinking of the goat forum specifically where there are a dozen sites and where you run into the same posters again and again. I would think the cattle forum might be similar. I know that there is a Carbon Media farm tractor forum which might seem limited in interest. 
For others like a garden section, it would not seem so limited.
Certainly a search engine would refer to them as competitors.


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## fordy (Sep 13, 2003)

where I want to said:


> I keep wondering what the advantage is for Carbon Media to have wanted to initiate and grow sites that duplicate HT subforums anyway. Does it generate ad revenue to have advertisers buy on a dozen smaller sites than pay for one larger one? Is HT being in essence being broken up to sell the pieces at a higher price than one larger site could bring? Otherwise, why create competing sites? Are we doomed staying or going anyway?


 ..................My observation would be they wanted to use the posts of HT members like 'Yeast' in Bread dough . A new member initiates a conversation about an interesting subject and it motivates other members to post . It creates a self sustaining engine and the website grows just like HT does . , fordy


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## tab (Aug 20, 2002)

I guess to me the "why" of other sites is not not important. Numbers and traffic sells advertising. Datamining sells and my guess is this site is ripe for that. Makes me wonder if some of the newer members are bots. The integrity isn't there.


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## kasilofhome (Feb 10, 2005)

I see it as packing a new restaurant with friends and family eating for free to gain interest.

Create demand 

Create interest

But they should have let the ht posters have a say and credit.


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## tab (Aug 20, 2002)

Datamining is way beyond opening a restauraunt. Integrity was a core value here, to a degree I have not found on too many other forums. Notice the past tense? IMHO, shuffling the threads to a less visited board tells me a lot of words have been written but the actions say more!


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## kasilofhome (Feb 10, 2005)

Note my last line....I agree it should not have happened I have never condoned it. 
But it did...so, each of us has to choose how to deal with it.

I made my choice freely, I personally checked things out. I saw no dead bodies so I did not reach for a pitch fork.

I am totally at peace . Not, stewing in anger. 

Turning back time is not happening. I truly wish it had not been done.


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## GREENCOUNTYPETE (Jul 25, 2006)

follow the money follow the motive 

media companies that own forums do so to make revenue from advertising 

they generate interest in advertisement by showing a target market , IE if all these people are talking about XYZ put an add for XYZ related product on their screen 

have you ever searched something to find it is the add 10 minutes later at the top of your screen , this is very pointed targeted advertizement this is great if the person searches somehting 

but what if they just read about XYZ , well if you have the XYZ related product or service add plastered all over the XYZ forum board 

when you pitch an add sale you want numbers , content , and users 

borrow some content form one board and put it in another to build it's numbers on a similar subject and you make nice pretty graphs to show prospective advertisers they are getting a good deal for their advertising dollars 

many feel a loss of tust at such a tacktic 

many who had been banned , for what ever reason have a grudge against HT probably not even the current owner CMG 

they like drama and they will do everything they can to kick salt in a wound , this generally what got them banned in the first place 

yes there is some loss of trust 

the people who should really be upset are the advertisers who paid for adds in both places and were shorted real content and real visitors that were borrowed and duplicated from another site , but frankly they are probably so used to it they figure it is part of the game 

I haven't followed all the drama and I don't care to 

any time your not paying for something , remember you are the product and your being sold to some thing or some one else


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## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

kasilofhome said:


> Note my last line....I agree it should not have happened I have never condoned it.
> But it did...so, each of us has to choose how to deal with it.
> 
> I made my choice freely, I personally checked things out. I saw no dead bodies so I did not reach for a pitch fork.
> ...


That is your reality. It does not happen to be everyone elses. Your constant lecturing about what their reality should be is getting really monotonous.

If they want to talk about it and deal with it in that way then what has it to do with you?


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## tab (Aug 20, 2002)

Somewhere along the line, my thread got derailed. So be it.


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## kasilofhome (Feb 10, 2005)

kasilofhome said:


> Note my last line....I agree it should not have happened I have never condoned it.
> But it did...so, each of us has to choose how to deal with it.
> 
> I made my choice freely, I personally checked things out. I saw no dead bodies so I did not reach for a pitch fork.
> ...




Clearly I missed where I was forcing my position on any one

There is no you, or we just I​ CLEARLY YOU ARE LAYING A CLAIM ON TO ME FALSELY.

Will I get an apology from you ....I don't need it but it does show character.


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## tab (Aug 20, 2002)

GCP, I don't consider this issue "drama" . It is core to a community that I helped build. By joing when it was CS, rejoining later as HT after a hiatus. Coming here, helping the traffic count and trying to offer advice when I could and learning a ton, yes, I helped build it. You may choose to ignore this situation , that is fine. I think by my track record alone, you can see I have not set out to create trouble or "rub salt" in situations. I actually resent your implications.

I am glad others can look at this like a glass of spilled milk. I don't. One of my points being this situation seems to be getting jabbed further by the admin moving threads.


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## arabian knight (Dec 19, 2005)

GREENCOUNTYPETE said:


> follow the money follow the motive
> 
> media companies that own forums do so to make revenue from advertising
> 
> ...


 That is so true. 
It takes more then just a few a core sort of speak to keep a board like this going. And all of us are the core, not just a one elite group of folks that like to click together.
time to flip the page and move on and get this board back to what it has always been in the past. people helping people and sharing ideas not this shoving folks around and asking more from something that is not going to happen when there are 50,000+ members.


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## tab (Aug 20, 2002)

AK, as I stated on CF's thread, I do not mean a core of people. I mean a core of values!
I will say that on the idea of core people, Melissa was one. If there is such a thing here. I do not understad the flippant attitude about loosing so many good people. And, for some reason, it is being worked at to derail this thread put this it in a direction that I am not sending it.


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## GREENCOUNTYPETE (Jul 25, 2006)

tab said:


> GCP, I don't consider this issue "drama" . It is core to a community that I helped build. By joing when it was CS, rejoining later as HT after a hiatus. Coming here, helping the traffic count and trying to offer advice when I could and learning a ton, yes, I helped build it. You may choose to ignore this situation , that is fine. I think by my track record alone, you can see I have not set out to create trouble or "rub salt" in situations. I actually resent your implications.
> 
> I am glad others can look at this like a glass of spilled milk. I don't. One of my points being this situation seems to be getting jabbed further by the admin moving threads.



the issue is not drama , but there has been no shortage of drama surrounding it . I was not saying you are or were the drama 

now I had typed up a big long response this but then got logged out, I almost never get logged out , yeah they doesn't help the conspiracy theorist in me , 

I will sum it up , I expected things to change when Chuck sold the site , much the way I expect any store or business to change when bought out by a larger corporation it didn't change much , it was little surprise when it was sold again. this time it changed 

it is still a great forum , better than most around but I have no Illusion that we are here to be marketed to for the corps profit and they will allow us to discuss things as we wish because it is good for them.

read this http://www.carbonmedia.com/about-us/ and tell me that this is anything other than a way for them to make money through add revenue 

I have really really low expectations of corporate America and corporate culture , so I find my self less disappointing in a system I expect this type of thing from due to my previous life experience.

that is the very summarized version


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## TnAndy (Sep 15, 2005)

GREENCOUNTYPETE said:


> it is still a great forum , better than most around but I have no Illusion that we are here to be marketed to for the corps profit and they will allow us to discuss things as we wish because it is good for them.



Just like I use a phone, but I have no illusions the phone company isn't making money.

I've seen all the feather dusting going on here of late, and quite honestly, I don't get it......looks like a whole lot about not much, to me.


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## tab (Aug 20, 2002)

Sorry gcp, this I took it wrong. It seemed i was being tagged and i was just a bit grumpy, still am. I also got logged out.


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## Sumatra (Dec 5, 2013)

I too got logged out. Was wondering if everybody had the same thing. Must be some changes being done on the forum.


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## m3acrehomestead (Mar 25, 2015)

I also was logged out.. I also noticed you 2 are from NY..I'm also another New Yorker coincidence?


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## Roadking (Oct 8, 2009)

I got logged out as well...hmmmmmmm.

Matt


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## puddlejumper007 (Jan 12, 2008)

yeah me too,and i was just lurking


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## manygoatsnmore (Feb 12, 2005)

Sounds like it was an across the board log out. I wondered for a minute if I'd been banned, lol!


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## CMG_CEO (Mar 24, 2015)

This was sent to me today by one of our techs. He knew about all the stuff going on here and was smart enough to give me a heads up:

&#8203;"Gonzo had to fix something today with the cookie SALT's that were messed up on a few GB sites from when we had to do an emergency VB patch due to a security issue. That could cause people to have to re-login."

"Gonzo" or Craig later sent this to me:

"I just wanted to give everyone a heads on something on I had to do on a couple of the GB sites, including HT&#8230;

Long story short, there was a cookie issue with a couple sites we patched a few months back and I had to fix the minor issue. 

So if people start to notice anything funky with signing out on HT, it&#8217;s not intentional."

Since I know everyone is on edge, I wanted to let you know exactly what I got. I have no idea what SALT's are BTW.


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## GREENCOUNTYPETE (Jul 25, 2006)

well if you all got logged out also , it actually calms the theorist in me , I do a bit with servers and well sometimes they need a reboot , most of the time you try and do it on off hours but it is what it is.

even when you have redundant virtulized servers and make the switch users can get logged out 

it can also be used as a tool to count real traffic , who logs in an how long does it take them , and who just leaves their browser up all day although they can watch clicks and clicks per hour and clicks per ad and what page and geographic area by ip address.

the data you can collect on a web site how people get to your site and what links they take off your site is amazing , the metrics and data you could almost only dream of.


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## GREENCOUNTYPETE (Jul 25, 2006)

as a technician I have a saying that helps me 

"never attribute first to malice what is more likely neglect , complacency or ignorance".

this is my own version of Hanlon's Razor http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hanlon's_razor

where appropriate I insert , stupidity, miss-communication or missed assumptions 

only when one has found evidence to dismiss these most common of reasons can true malice be discovered.


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## ET1 SS (Oct 22, 2005)

GREENCOUNTYPETE said:


> as a technician I have a saying that helps me
> 
> "never attribute first to malice what is more likely neglect , complacency or ignorance".
> 
> ...


During 20+ years in the Navy, I found the same to be true.

HT has gone through shake-ups. It has been re-structured before. It will again.


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## Jim-mi (May 15, 2002)

And what added insult to injury was the page that came up demanding that I pay fees to get back on.........

Mr.CEO; When you demand money, that is when many many of us will be gone.....
Your numbers will go down and you and your greedy profit will shrink . . . .goody


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## BlackFeather (Jun 17, 2014)

No page demanding money when I had to log in. I have to log in regularly, when I look at news the Telegraph has a limit to 10 articles a month else they want you to pay, so if I erase my cookies I can get back on, it resets my 10 article limit but also signs me off of here. I have no problem signing back on.


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## flowergurl (Feb 27, 2007)

I think everyone just needs to chill out and stop jumping at shadows. 
Let's move forward and put this behind us.


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## arabian knight (Dec 19, 2005)

flowergurl said:


> I think everyone just needs to chill out and stop jumping at shadows.
> Let's move forward and put this behind us.


Ya for sure and no payment has been asked for even yesterday when there was a glitch and many if not all had to sign but in.


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## Txsteader (Aug 22, 2005)

Jim-mi said:


> And what added insult to injury was the page that came up demanding that I pay fees to get back on.........


So how did you manage to get logged in? Surely you didn't pay, did you??

I had to log in a couple of times today but never saw anything demanding payment. Just normal log-in procedure.


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## poppy (Feb 21, 2008)

arabian knight said:


> That is so true.
> *It takes more then just a few a core sort of speak to keep a board like this going. * And all of us are the core, not just a one elite group of folks that like to click together.
> time to flip the page and move on and get this board back to what it has always been in the past. people helping people and sharing ideas not this shoving folks around and asking more from something that is not going to happen when there are 50,000+ members.


No it doesn't. I'm on other boards that do quite well which all have a main core of posters with very high post counts. They also have a big selection of people with fewer posts. The only difference is, they are not "for profit" and accept no advertising. They function quite well on member donations.


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## Roadking (Oct 8, 2009)

If they require me to pay to log in or participate...I will walk...nay, run. I'm here for the members and the knowledge, and glad to be part of it.

Matt


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## tab (Aug 20, 2002)

Ak, as I have said at least two times, this is NOT about a core group of people. It is about core values. Lol, if you were accusing me of being in a clique, that is just so funny! My dh tells me I can be friends with most anyone.

I have backed away, have done a bit of resesrch. None of that has reassured me a bit. I still believe that datamining is going on. Not sure if emails are being sold or to circumvent that, being "rented". This group is an aggressive group. As explained numbers, hits and volumn are cash. 

I am looking at this like the homestead calf that was raised with love and named has been sold to the corp. farm, no name any more and she better produce. HT is now the proverbial cash cow. I am working hard and have for many years to divest myself of supporting corp ag. Family farms are a core ( there's that word again) part of the whole region I grew up in. They are hanging on by a thread. So far, I cannot find anything concrete to say cm isn't part of that. So far, I have not had one piece of evidence otherwise. There is lots of "just forget about it" which translates to me as sticking your head in the sand. There is some "I can deal with this" , too which I can understand. 

I guess the last piece for me will be to go back and see how the TOS wound up. That will be later.


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## CMG_CEO (Mar 24, 2015)

I think the jumping at shadows comment pretty much sums it up, but I can respect the fact that we need to re-gain and earn your trust and know that for some people that just may not be possible. I did what I could as soon as I found out about this.


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## Jim-mi (May 15, 2002)

But you can never undo the image you have given out.

You and yours are greedy profit seekers.

And a whole weeks worth of mingling with us will be all the damage control that is needed.

What a pox on the good state of Michigan that you are ""operating" in Michigan.....


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## kasilofhome (Feb 10, 2005)

Give credit where credit is earned.

The value of any post is the post it's self and bears no relationship to the number of prior posts or join date.


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## tab (Aug 20, 2002)

kasilofhome said:


> Give credit where credit is earned.
> 
> The value of any post is the post it's self and bears no relationship to the number of prior posts or join date.


I have no idea what you mean. I think in some way you are you are trying to derail this thread again.

CM, while I appreciate your post I have to say to say that follow up by actions would be great. My undrstanding is you delete any lists of sites you own? Is it true thst you have visited the proboards site and told them it was a HT bashing site? Which, btw, I don't find as there is a lot of very positive energy there.


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## tab (Aug 20, 2002)

Further, I am not completely sure how the phrase "jumping at shadows" is pertinent to any of my posts. Could you please explain? Maybe it is my understanding of the phrase. If I am out hunting and a shadow moves I certainly don't so on the flip side it sounds like I am being accused of being paranoid, chasing smoke, etc. Those are things that I just don't get accused of, if you in some way think I have posted something false, please be forthcoming and just say it. I think misundetstandings abound in this situation from the minimizing, skirting the issues and innuendo.


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## flowergurl (Feb 27, 2007)

It means if the slightest thing happens here, people are to quick to think the worst case scenario. Ah, that evil overlord must be at it again.

In this case it was a server that needed a reset, i believe.

We need to chill out and stop thinking the worst every time. Let's get back to living 
and enjoying each other is what I am saying.


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## kasilofhome (Feb 10, 2005)

CMG_CEO said:


> I think the jumping at shadows comment pretty much sums it up, but I can respect the fact that we need to re-gain and earn your trust and know that for some people that just may not be possible. I did what I could as soon as I found out about this.




This busy man...has taken a personal interest in this site. It could not been easy for him and some no matter what find fault with him.

Credit to him for personal stand up owning it and working with us. To get along it is always give and take. 

I hope that explains my giving credit where credit us due. 

An alcoholic takes pride in his first 24 hour coin as it is a shift in directions....slamming the alcoholic because it is just 24 hours is to overlook what effort it personally took.


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## BlackFeather (Jun 17, 2014)

High speed Internet access, cell phones to call from where ever you are, text messaging from one to another in seconds, over night shipping, we are used to an instant world. Apologies have been made, efforts to rectify the situation are in progress, this isn't like putting some powder in a bowl and adding milk and wa-la you have instant pudding. This all takes time and patience, something people are not used to in our instant society. How much patience? It may be weeks, it may be months, to see the end results, you can't hurry things.


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