# Ideal Size of Farm



## sweetmusicj (Mar 5, 2008)

My grandpa is ready to sell the family farm. All 200 acres of it here in SE Minnesota.

The farm has been in my family since the 1920's.

My question would be this:

Even though I grew up in the country, it was in the woods and not on the farm so I never learned how to farm. I cannot afford to buy the whole farm (right now it would be valued over $1 million), but I'd love to buy the home and some acrage.

Assuming I could afford a slice of it, how much acrage is ideal for some small scale farming? This property has a creek and both pasture and fields (no woodland though).

As farm as learning to do small scale farming/gardening, my grandpa and dad would be able to teach me the basics, I just am wondering how much land I should get (thinking 10-20 acres).

Oh, and one more thing...which would be more useful, the pasture or the cropland?

Thanks for any advice! I'm hoping I can keep at least a piece of that farm in the family!


EDIT: I guess this isn't really survival, so feel free to move it. Sorry, I'm just always in this thread so I didn't think about it when I posted.


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## Terri (May 10, 2002)

5 acres will be filled FAST if you want to raise cattle, but, it would make a BIG! strawberry farm!

Were you thinking of raising your own groceries, or were you thinking of a commercial business?


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## bee (May 12, 2002)

"the home and some acreage", that desire may be telling when you choose the "pasture or crop land" as deviding it up to get the house you may have to take land that is closest to it. Also if you can afford more than you can work, you will have the land if that should change or to use as a buffer between you and what ever the other buyers may do with theirs...

"Enough land to feed the hands and stock it supports but not too much land for the available hands and equipment to work it." In your case you could plan to farm/garden what you can handle and run a couple of feeder beef on the rest????


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## stanb999 (Jan 30, 2005)

sweetmusicj said:


> My grandpa is ready to sell the family farm. All 200 acres of it here in SE Minnesota.
> 
> The farm has been in my family since the 1920's.
> 
> ...


The only thing I have to say is buy some place else...

The new owner will change, plow under, cut down, and make the place their own. This will be hard to watch. Even if you agree with half of what they do. 

As to your first question..... Well a farmer doesn't want to own ALL the land, Just the land that is adjoined them.


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## rean (Nov 18, 2008)

My husband's grandmother has 80 acres in NW Iowa. It's assessed at around 60,000.00 because over half of it is hilly pasture. I suggest you contact the county agronomist. He will be able to tell you what kind of land your grandad has, and what it's good for.


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## chickenista (Mar 24, 2007)

There is no such thing as too much land.
It is the one thing they don't make more of.


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## wyld thang (Nov 16, 2005)

yeah, I would say buy as much acreage as you can afford. You can always find something to use it for


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## Gary in ohio (May 11, 2002)

Depends on what you mean by farming. Around here you need about 3000 acres to make a living farming traditional crops.


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## sweetmusicj (Mar 5, 2008)

I guess what I mean is not commercial farming.

I guess that would be large gardening and some livestock.

The home has both pasture and cropland running up against it. I suppose maybe I could buy as much pasture as I can afford and a spot for a large garden. That way I could raise some grass fed livestock, and not worry about the equipment for crop farming.


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## TexasArtist (May 4, 2003)

one question that comes to mind for me is "WHY" is grandpa thinking about selling?? Is it he is getting just to old to do it all himself? If so, maybe you could work a deal with him that he still lives there and you move onto the property somewhere with your own little place. Then he continues to do some farming and you learn from him. You learn the skills and he gets some help and company. Would that work? You might have some sort of contract written up that you get to stay on the property when he passes or something. Kinda making you co owner or such but not to greedy so other relatives feel cheated. Also if you move withen a certain amount of time after his passing the other might get a small share of whatever monies paid??


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## sweetmusicj (Mar 5, 2008)

Thanks for the input.

The problem is that he doesn't live on the farm. I'll try to make this short. It was owned by his wife's (my grandma's) grandparents and he bought it from the son's (my grandma's uncles).

He's actually never lived on it. He's farmed it a bit, but he's a logger by trade (built up and sold his logging company) and farmer by hobby.

He's one of my favorite people on earth, but he doesn't seem to have the emotional attachment to it like I do (I guess it hasn't been in HIS family for that long since he's not blood related to my great great grandparents).

Anyways, the tragic part about this whole deal is he had a rentor who had rented for five years that isn't related to us for $400/month for the house and outbuildings. That's less than half the market rate. There were rumors he was moving out and then my grandpa would let me rent it. After waiting a half year and this guy never moving, I had to rent an apartment for my family (we couldn't wait any longer not knowing if he ever would move).

I've been in the new apartment 2.5 weeks and this guy gives my grandpa 3 days notice that he's moving out!

I'm signed into a year long lease. I'm going to talk with gramps and hopefully he won't sell the house so us grandkids have SOMETHING of the old family farm left. If he's set on selling, I guess I'll have to buy it.

Sorry for the long story.


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## ET1 SS (Oct 22, 2005)

My father has 80 acres all pasture for beef. His operation costs only about $8,000 each year to operate. He buys calves in the spring, rotates them between pastures all summer, sells to feed lots in the fall, keeps 3 or 4 to fatten on grain for himself and his friends. He loses about $8,000 on average each year doing this. His pension and investment income support him and his hobby. So long as his annual income is greater than his cost-of-living, he will be able to continue loosing money farming in this manner.



Ideally I think you need:
40 acres of managed treegrowth for sustainable firewood;
100 acres for hay;
100 acres of pasture;
40 acres for corn;
40 acres for oats or barley;
1 acre for a veggie garden.

And a fulltime job with good medical benefits to support the operation.


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## hunter63 (Jan 4, 2005)

Most any farmer doesn't want to own all the land, just the piece next door to him.


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## sweetmusicj (Mar 5, 2008)

Thanks for the input. Yeah, I'm not talking to farm commercially, just grow a lot of my own food and have some space.

Looks like my brother in the military who makes good money (Captian's pay + Combat pay for the last year) is interested in buying the whole 200 acres if he can work out a deal. I'd just be happy if it stays in the family.


Thanks for all the advice though. I still need to find a way to find my slice of heaven. Getting depressed up here in the cities. Was raised in the country and trying to find my way back. People still complain about housing prices being too low. Well, when I still can't find an old house on five acres for less than $200k...prices are still too high...sorry, just had to get that out of my system.


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## Macybaby (Jun 16, 2006)

You are looking in the wrong state!. I live about 75 miles west from the MN/SD border, and my neighbors place sold last summer for under $170,000. Old farmhouse, a few outbuildings and 27 acres, mostly currently in pasture. 

I grew up on a farm near White Bear Lake (ain't no farms there now!). DH grew up in different places in the Twin Cities, but also ended up in WBL, so we became HS sweethearts.

I sort of assume that since you refer to it as "the cities" that you are living in the Twin Cites somewhere. It's funny because the folks I work with here in SD refer to the area as "Minneapolis". They'll say they are going to Minneapolis when most of them are going somewhere in the metro area, and not actually getting anywhere near the city proper. 

I watched my family farm get overrun by the cities. It was very painful and one reason I moved so far away. It's been busted up and some parts are still owned by family, but it's now just another suburb of St. Paul. Most of the homes of my friends have been torn down so the roads could be widened. My folks still live in the homestead, and I hated going back there for a while, but now it's so different it seems like a different place than where I grew up. 

Where I live now is like where I grew up. Working farms all around and a decent sized town to go to for shopping, with a bigger city just an hour away for the few times I need other stuff. If I had known what SD was really like, I would have moved 25 years ago. It's funny because when I visit relatives still living in MN, they make some really stupid comments about how awful and depressed it is in SD. 

Cathy


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## Blu3duk (Jun 2, 2002)

The original question of how many acres are suited for a farm is a loaded one, but one indeed that many people have and do not know how to derive at the final figure.

The banksters look at just about all farm acreage with a house and outbuildings as a lot in town with a house on it, the appraisers i know have said the same thing, for there are more houses in town than there are farm houses and acreage, so they tend to appraise higher, then they tack on the land cost as bare farmable ground and you get sky high pricetags that the banksters will loan against to the owner, or the owner wants to sell becuase they can realize such a high profit after being in the family for 100 years or so.... bought back then at "cheaper than dirt" prices and farmed all those years.

A person has to appraoch the idea with what they intend to do on the ground, and then access the ground to see if it is suitable for the idea and can it make the payments on the worst of years ad hope for the best of years in the process. 

What crops would a person intend to grow, standard crops? if so the county agent can provide in most areas the average yield of the crops for a given area, and you can figure up what the profit potential is for those crops.... Specialty crops? again the county agent might be the best information source, but you are going to need soil samples and tests be run to see if the crops will do well on that specific ground [not a cheap proposition but well worth the insurance of willit grow wellin that environment] 

Machinery costs need to be figured in with the land costs, some old time farmers have some machinery that can be bought with the property, most of the time the nieghbor buys the ground and does not want the machinery or wont offer as much as the owner can get at auction and well it goes for way to high of a price tag for most new folks to get everything they need at auction..... auctions get heated and not always the best place to get a piece of machinery, though some go for next to nothing still.....<---- yeah kind ofa double speak but it pays to know what is selling in the area and what peices are available sitting before you go to an auction.

Raising livestock? you still are going to need to know how to farm some, what crops to plant to get the best pasture for the area, and what to grow to have hay for the numer of animals you have for winter, and grains to fatten up the young stock for the next year too..... with the price of feed high this year i have heard of folks turning out their horses in some areas and other places turning folks away from the auction cause no buyers are available for the brood stock, and the fat stock is not selling as high either.... not always a good thing to be in sometimes, but the making it through the lean years will usually get the folks to come out on the good years.

Now to the contract you made for a year lease, can you sublet it? how much is the buy out if you walk away? contact the owner and see if you can pay 2 months more rent and during that time move to the farm house [contact gramps first, make sure you have an agreement that will not cost to much and maybe can be set back for the time you are paying on the contract in town.... work out a deal] if nothing else explore the possibility of filing a chapter 13 reorganization and move to the farmhouse, een threatening to so so could get the owner of the house/apartment in town to agree to just back out of the lease, and the bankruptcy court would disolve the lease and give the owner nothing cause you are no longer there..... doing so will allow reorganization of all your debts [if you should have any] and puts you in place where you would rather be, on the farmground, and should your kin purchase the place, then you might be able to work a deal out to rent the whole peice from him too, in a few years if the world is still spinning the way it is, you will be a better position if you work it right to do what others only dream of..... cause you got out from under any credit problems through the banruptcy if you go that way..... <---- I am not a lawyer, and the advice you really need to understand that as an option can only be recieved from a qualified bankruptcy attorner... personally after going that way several years ago, I feel my family is in a better position, though i made a couple of wrong choices at the time by trying to deal witht he banksters and not just vacating the property at that time.... other folks will of course have different findings as everyone is different.... and contrary to popular belief, bankruptcy is not a bad thing for everyone, it can be a good thing.

It all boils down to choices, and the variables are so widespread that the answer then can not be given as a specific unless very detailed data is provided and that even then can be skewed wrongly.... It takes about so many dollars to make a living, and Gary's example of 3000 acres where he lives to make farming may not in fact be needed here where i live, for yearly the crop yield is in the 100-120 bushel per acre end as opposed to some places where lighter yields are the norm, however you pay around $5000.00 per acre for that farmground cause the farmers all went out and mortgaged it to build bigger houses, bigger barns and buy bigger machines to put put in those barns..... then you get to buy the houses that are on those expensive acreages... and by the time you get it all figgered out, you end up farming and working in town to make ends meet.

William
On the NP rez
North Central Idaho


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## Jerry in MN (Dec 2, 2007)

sweetmusicj said:


> My grandpa is ready to sell the family farm.


Not to your question, but...does he have a good attorney? Capital gains tax may or may not be a major concern. Maybe alternatives to outright sale(s) should be considered? Just FYI...not looking for a reply.


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