# what dog to get with free range hens?



## heatherette (Jul 21, 2011)

We have 9 chickens and often visit a friend who has probably 20 or so and 3 ducks as well. I want to get a family dog who won't chase. I had one all picked out from a local shelter, and we tried a home visit yesterday. She chased my goat in circles and the hens went and hid. She wouldn't chase unless they were running, but really, she failed in my opinion. What breed or characteristics can help me choose a dog who isn't going to chase them? And I mean one that is more common, I don't have a large budget.


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

Breed makes no difference as long as you stay away from Terriers and Herding dogs.

All the rest can be trained, but it's easier if you start them young.

Individual personality makes all the real difference


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## MO_cows (Aug 14, 2010)

I think it is more the individual dog than the breed. 

Did you let the dog off leash?? They need to be controlled and corrected until they "get it". Most will be able to learn what is off limits. They aren't born with manners; you have to teach them.


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## Real Hawkeye (Jul 5, 2005)

heatherette said:


> We have 9 chickens and often visit a friend who has probably 20 or so and 3 ducks as well. I want to get a family dog who won't chase. I had one all picked out from a local shelter, and we tried a home visit yesterday. She chased my goat in circles and the hens went and hid. She wouldn't chase unless they were running, but really, she failed in my opinion. What breed or characteristics can help me choose a dog who isn't going to chase them? And I mean one that is more common, I don't have a large budget.


Any dog. It's all a matter of training. My last dog was a pure pitbull, and it only took him two stern corrections of his going after chickens, and after that he would walk among them, supervised or not supervised, and they would ignore him and he'd ignore them. 

My current dog (see picture below) is a mutt of uncertain heritage, and I adopted her as an adult. For her, corrections weren't enough, because I didn't raise her, so she's not as perfectly attuned to my wishes as a dog that I raised from a little puppy, but just two or three zaps with a shock collar the instant she started chasing broke her of the habit. Here's my new dog with the chickens. Shock collar isn't needed anymore. She thinks the chickens are like electric eels, and can emit an electric shock if messed with.


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## akane (Jul 19, 2011)

I've actually had some of the least trouble from herding dogs. We lost a lot of chickens to stray dogs but both neighbors herding dogs have not harmed one and neither has my mom's herding breed mutt. They follow them around and the mutt did grab one to carry but it was released unharmed. We temporarily had a border collie x terrier foster who loved doing chicken chores with me.

If you want to be as sure as possible the dog gets along with your animals I would suggest getting a trained livestock guardian breed from a breeder. They are least likely to harm livestock but still need to have some training and good socialization with the animals. If you want to put in the effort most any dog can be trained to at least get along with livestock while you are around. Some may take a lot more effort than others and some I would never trust unsupervised. We have japanese spitz breeds which were originally hunting dogs and maintain a very primitive prey drive. The akita has learned to ignore common livestock but if she sees something odd like when we got guineas or the neighbors got geese she did capture one to investigate because these were not chickens. The birds lose a few feathers while she checks them over but she's never killed one. Our shiba on the other hand has chicken killing down to an art form and the effort it would take to break her of that habit is just not worth it. She is a shiba. The entire reason the breed was created was to kill things of all sizes. It's easier to keep her separate from things she can kill unless heavily supervised. Even supervised we were having some troubles until we put a snoot loop and electric collar in to use.

The main thing is to never let the dog chase. Start them on leash until they get used to the livestock and never ever ever let them chase even if there is a fence between them and the other animals. Enforce from the first minute they get there that livestock are to be ignored or protected. Tie them to your waist while you do chores until you are confident they can follow you around without showing too much interest in the livestock. Just sticking a dog out there loose the first time they see your animals is setting them up to fail.


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

> If you want to be as sure as possible the dog gets along with your animals I would suggest getting a trained* livestock guardian breed *from a breeder.


None of those breeds were developed to protect chickens, and offer no promise of performance. They are better suited to sheep and goats, and even then they may require training. They aren't the type of dog you take with you to "visit" your friends.

They do NOT make good "pets", and are not a good choice for a "yard dog"


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## akane (Jul 19, 2011)

Livestock guardian breeds are a very common choice and suggestion on poultry forums and seem to be quite easy to train toward poultry the same as toward larger livestock. Definitely more likely than trying to train a random dog who may or may not have any instinct toward protecting your animals. Not all are dogs you can't have as pets. We had great pyrenees growing up and kept them in the house and took them everywhere. They were big teddy bears. http://www.motherearthnews.com/Happy-Homesteader/Livestock-Guardian-Dogs-Great-Pyrenees.aspx 

We also more recently had a bernese mountain dog while I was a teenager until about 2 years ago who I walked the property with daily as a puppy, went to the feed store with us, went to the private lot on a very busy private lake with tons of people to interact with, slept in the house, and protected me and the livestock from many small predators like possums, skunks, *****, and foxes. It's all a matter of what you socialize them for. A breed that has a guarding instinct is much easier to train toward protecting rather than killing livestock irregardless of what that breeds original purpose is. I'm certain that is the reason we can train the akita with moderate set backs but not the shiba. Akitas have some guarding instinct that you can work off of and tell them this belongs on the property and this doesn't. Sometimes she'll corner something she's never seen before like the first time we had a groundhog and just wait for me to say whether it should exist or not. While shibas were never bred to provide any protection and have no desire to protect so can't be made to understand this concept. Only the more basic concept of punishment and reward for their actions towards other animals.


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## sawman65 (Sep 8, 2011)

i have trained many chicken dogs for friends and family. what i found is any dog will do. size will depend on the varmint size you have. now that being said its not an easy task all the time some will just drive you insane. some catch on right away. one thing i have found...YOU HAVE TO START THEM FROM A PUP! i will not even try to teach and old dog new tricks so to speak. some have done it without any problems. but with heritage breeds running free range you are talking a big monetary set back if you don&#8217;t have a good eye on the dog. years of breeding and care are gone in seconds.
try to stay away from bird dogs they are the worst IMO. mutts work well if you work with them. the large LGD types are good but as has been said you must be alpha or you are in deep trouble. i had a friend lose his GP because it herded the neighbors kids into his yard and would not let the parents retrieve them.









this is a mutt from the pound i trained for my brother it took a wile but he has lost 0 birds since she got in the yard


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## tinknal (May 21, 2004)

I had a Rhodesian Ridgeback/ Redbone cross. He would kill any 4 legged varmint that came close to the farm (including coyotes) but just didn't seem to "see" poultry. They just didn't exist in his world. The only time he even acknowledged their existence is when they wandered too close to his food and even then he would just warn them away with a low growl.


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## Linda J (Oct 13, 2002)

Our elderly Akita/Shepherd takes care of the chickens, has for 10 years. They are his responsibility when they are out in the yard. He protects them from the hawks, coyotes, foxes, and squirrels. Never had a problem with him or from the varmints when he's out there.


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## jen74145 (Oct 31, 2006)

How much dog ownership experience do you have?

While I know people with farm dogs of breeds I would never think could work, I wouldn't encourage you to get a high prey drive breed. No terriers, not even little ones (err... actually, especially not little ones).

I have no firsthand with them, but people here rave over English Shepherds and there's a couple breeders on this site. Smaller dog, great all around farm dog.

TBH, it depends on the individual dog *and* your devotion. There are people who do everything in their pwoer to train a pup to be a good farm dog, and he winds up eating the chickens and chasing the goats.

You cannot expect to just have one fit right in. It takes some work, you have to set your expectations for the dog. And don't trust a puppy, no leaving it alone with the animals until it is an adult. My tiny baby sheltie was hell on wheels to my flock the first eight months of his life, despite some of the hens towering over him!


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## tinknal (May 21, 2004)

I'm thinking that a very biddable German shepherd could be a good choice. Not a high bred performance line though. They will still have a prey drive and will need to be broke off of birds, but it shouldn't be too hard to do.


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## brody (Feb 19, 2009)

can't seem to multiple quote today - apologies for the cut and paste below

" because I didn't raise her, so she's not as perfectly attuned to my wishes as a dog that I raised from a little puppy"

completely disagree here - I foster dogs of all ages and MANY, even most learn to leave the other animals (chickens, rabbits, etc) alone pretty easily ...

I do agree with those who remind everyne that training is important - you can't just presume that a dog will be good or bad at anything without some work ...I also totally agree with never letting the dog chase ... and animals that run are HARD for a drivey dog to ignore 

one issue with LGD for you is it seems you want a pet who can be part of life on and off farm ...which means stress for many of the LGD I know - i don't think that's a good solution 

I think a non terrier dog from a shelter - between 4-18 months is probably a good bet for you 
our permanent breeds/mixes around here are a border collie mix (she's VERY HIGH drive but also extremely sensitive and trainable); a golden; a shi mix, a chihuahua - we've also ived permanently with an aussie and gsd dane mix who were great with the livestock too - though the aussie took a LOT of work to stop obsessing about them


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## alpacamom (Jan 28, 2007)

I have to disagree with the herding dog not being good for chickens. We have a sheltie (5 years old) that just leaves the chickens alone. We've had her since she was a pup, but we didn't get chickens until she was a couple years old. She is always off leash outside and our chickens free range. We've just started working with her on herding the ducks and the only time she will do that is when we encourage her. We've never herded ducks before, but she seems to have the instinct to do so as she herds ME. I wonder if she thinks I'm going to get lost or something? 

Our Bernese Mountain Dog (4 years old), OTOH...he is never off leash outside and has to be watched very carefully around chickens. He was spurred/attacked one too many times by a mean ol' rooster we had and doesn't trust them anymore. He had even gotten Peckerhead (that was the mean ol' rooster) pinned down on the ground by his wings and bit through his wattle, so Peckerhead had a pierced wattle. He has not attacked a chicken since, though he has tried to chase them. Not sure what he'd do if he got one, but I don't want to find out. 

We also have a Maremma (4 years old) that lives in with the alpacas and he guards the chickens, too. The only time he is stern with them is when they try to eat his food and he'll growl and if they ignore him, he'll bark at them. He's never been mean to them and will let them walk on him or perch on him if he's laying down or if one of the kids puts one on his back. 

We've had a couple stray labs on the property recently that attacked 2 of our birds (one is recovering in our basement bathroom in a hospital cage and the other had minor injuries) but the guy who shears our alpacas has a lab that is so mellow, she just sniffs at them and leaves them alone. My inlaws had 2 labs that they would bring with them when they came to stay with us and they left the chickens alone, too and weren't brought up around chickens at all.

I think it just depends on the dog, its prior experiences with chickens, and how much you're willing to work with it if there seems to be an issue. I think our BMD would need a shock collar at this point, but I haven't gone that route yet.


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## Faithful (Jul 15, 2011)

My Anatolian shepherd Savage was good with mine when I had chickens.


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## jen74145 (Oct 31, 2006)

A GSD could be good, but if you haven't had a dog before, I hesitate to recommend so *much* dog. Theyr'e lovely, brilliant dogs, and so eager to please. Most of the time. If you do get a hardheaded dog, oh boy, hold on for the ride. If you know how to carefully select the mellow pup and the parents are good dogs, you should be fine though.

I had a sheltie, poorly bred, who ripped the throat out of my muscovies while the male pitt mix cowered under the porch. Dogs are definitely individuals.


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## chickenista (Mar 24, 2007)

It all dpends on the dog and your ability to be alpha.

I have a GSD mix that was a city dog until she was 5 or so.
Then I moved home to the country and brought her along.
She was besmitten with the idea that I had bought HER some birds.
Oh, the look of pure joy on her face when she thought they were for her.

But I quickly explained that they were mine and only mine and she was not to touch..ever.

Never had a moments problem after that first correction. She now loves the chickens and watches over them and will stand between them and anything that she sees as a threat.
She loves to lick as many new chicks as she can .(but she loves newborn anything!)

It all depends on the personality and obedience level of the dog and the strength of will of the human.


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## Elevenpoint (Nov 17, 2009)

I have mutts, 3 pups five months old, their mom and two other 4 year old litter mates, they all walk with and around the chickens....I think the pups and chickens are sleeping under the truck now.


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## Parttimefarmer (May 5, 2011)

A slow dog, lol! Seriously, the only dog I have had that couldn't be trained is a basset/lab mix. He has killed one and trys to eat them every chance he gets. My hound is no problem.


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