# Fencing Hilly, Wooden-ness



## Tango (Aug 19, 2002)

Putting this question on this forum because the fence is expressly for goats. I have some uncleared land that is on a steady slope in parts, not steep, not crazy bumpy or rocky but lots of trees. Field fence seems to be the most economical and "easy" to put up goat fence. I've used it before and had no issues but it was on flat and cleared land then. I will put in a mixture of wooden posts and t-posts and nail to larger trees along the way. Need to clear about a 5-6 ft. path to roll the wire and allow for fence maintenance. The other side of the fence is completely wooded. Starting out with just a small section of about 180 x 140 close to the cabin and very gradually expand to about 6 acres over the years- one roll at a time. But the first year they will be right within my sight.

I've got plenty of field fencing experience - not so much with barbed wire or electric, which is why I prefer field fence (and disbudded goats) - and my strong healthy young ds will be helping me next month  but I've never fenced in a slope along woods. Any foreseen problems for the goats? Thanks.


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## homstdr74 (Jul 4, 2011)

I've fenced and cross-fenced our forty with "goat fence" (field fence with 12" stays). The land is "Ozark flat", mostly, but there are a couple of steep hollers on the east side. The fencing at the bottom of those hollers is part of the problem, since you want the fence tight, yet how do you stretch it tight if there's a dip in the line? If you have to cross a holler, use a T-post or two and hang a very large rock or heavy concrete block off the post with wire. You can stretch the fencing reasonably tight doing that. 

I used mainly T-posts for durability. However, every so often I'd put in wooden corner posts---a pair of them braced together---to staple the wire to and maintain the rigidity of it. 

Years ago I used to staple to trees if they were handy, but over the years I've learned that getting the trees out of the way is best---and clearing on both sides of the fence as far back as you can. The reason for that is that ice storms and/or any other kind of storm (or old age of the tree) will fell trees or branches across that fence and may flatten it; of course the upshot of that is a missing herd. 

Strong corner posts are a must.


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## Clovers_Clan (Jul 17, 2012)

When you plan out the fence, to the best of your ability plan it out so you can unroll downhill. That will save you a lot of back ache.

Add plenty of extra posts where the terrain is uneven. I once had a full grown Boer Buck get under a fence in a dip. The gap was only about 2" but the posts were far enough apart that when he reached his nose under to nibble grass on the other side he eventually pushed right under.

Put extra braces in any ravines or sharp dips. The wire will have lots of tension to pull the posts up. The angle of the slope will mean the vertical stays will not be parallel with the posts in places. String a stretch as long as is manageable. Start by tacking at high points and low points then ease and tack the individual posts between. If there is a lot of up and down to the terrain you may not have to stretch it much at all, it will tighten up once it's tacked down. It will be as important as ever NOT to pound the staples too tight into the posts. Woven wire expands and contracts with heat and cold, and takes a lot of wear and tear from animals bumping it, tree limbs falling etc. It will last longer if its allowed to give a little between spans. Dips and high points especially will receive wear. 

As a maintenance concern, you will need to check staples more frequently than you did with flat land fence. And of course, in woods, if you keep brush trimmed back 3 feet on either side of the fence, you will have fewer problems with the goats reaching through or standing on the fence. They can wear it out pretty quickly.


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## Tango (Aug 19, 2002)

homstdr74 said:


> I've fenced and cross-fenced our forty with "goat fence" (field fence with 12" stays). The land is "Ozark flat", mostly, but there are a couple of steep hollers on the east side. The fencing at the bottom of those hollers is part of the problem, since you want the fence tight, yet how do you stretch it tight if there's a dip in the line? If you have to cross a holler, use a T-post or two and hang a very large rock or heavy concrete block off the post with wire. You can stretch the fencing reasonably tight doing that.
> 
> I used mainly T-posts for durability. However, every so often I'd put in wooden corner posts---a pair of them braced together---to staple the wire to and maintain the rigidity of it.
> 
> ...


Thanks  The large trees I'm thinking of nailing to are property boundary markers- the fence will be along the property boundaries,. My place is not so large and I like walking a lot so it will be walked everyday- twice a day, unless the weather is so awful (but the goats will be put up on those days or placed in the most secure section beside the cabin). I used to have a barbed wire fence that had been allowed to be overgrown and branches falling were quite a hassle. My cows would find the hole before I did. But that was much larger area and some of it, I couldn't get to without a lot of trouble so I def. know about problems with trees. I just want to maximize the space fenced and also fence the periimeter so it seems like the best way to go.


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## Bret (Oct 3, 2003)

Can't help with the fence from here, but your Wooden-ness made me grin. Keep working the plan.


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## Tango (Aug 19, 2002)

Clovers_Clan said:


> When you plan out the fence, to the best of your ability plan it out so you can unroll downhill. That will save you a lot of back ache.


lol, yeah I learned that part when fencing the road  much easier to go downhill  



> Add plenty of extra posts where the terrain is uneven. I once had a full grown Boer Buck get under a fence in a dip. The gap was only about 2" but the posts were far enough apart that when he reached his nose under to nibble grass on the other side he eventually pushed right under.


This part that you and hmstdr74 bring up gets to one of the things I wanted to learn about. Thanks to both. 



> Put extra braces in any ravines or sharp dips. The wire will have lots of tension to pull the posts up. The angle of the slope will mean the vertical stays will not be parallel with the posts in places. String a stretch as long as is manageable. Start by tacking at high points and low points then ease and tack the individual posts between. If there is a lot of up and down to the terrain you may not have to stretch it much at all, it will tighten up once it's tacked down. It will be as important as ever NOT to pound the staples too tight into the posts. Woven wire expands and contracts with heat and cold, and takes a lot of wear and tear from animals bumping it, tree limbs falling etc. It will last longer if its allowed to give a little between spans. Dips and high points especially will receive wear.


Okay, thanks. Good points on the tacking. I will probably quit at the rough areas where I need to put a brace. Will only be doing about 330 ft. a year  There aren't that many rough spots fortunately. The biggest problem is the slope down and up that is behind the pond - its the messiest in terms of fallen trees too. Will need help there.


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## Tango (Aug 19, 2002)

Also thinking of a panel fence for the buck, when I have one. I'm worried they would stick their head through and get stuck though - much more of a problem when the wire is 4 gauge than when it is 12. Would it be better just to fence him with field fence or will he pulverize it?


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## Awnry Abe (Mar 21, 2012)

For the extreme hollers that '74 mentioned, I've seen big boy posts put at each side to terminate the field fence so it can still be tightened. Cattle panels were used in the depths of it. For small dips, I take beat up cattle panel and cut them with bolt cutters to conform to the shape necessary to fill the gap under the field fence.

I usually take down trees vs. using them for fencing, but in the places where I have seen it done, a 2x4 or similar board is fastened to the tree, then the field fence is fastened to the board. Doing so buys some extra years before the fence and tree are one.

FWIW, we use a wire configuration that has ----y narrow horizontal gaps at the bottom that increase in height towards the top. I've had it for a couple of years with no issues with horned goats. Keeping the fence line clear so goats aren't tempted is key, though.


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## Tango (Aug 19, 2002)

Awnry Abe said:


> For the extreme hollers that '74 mentioned, I've seen big boy posts put at each side to terminate the field fence so it can still be tightened. Cattle panels were used in the depths of it. For small dips, I take beat up cattle panel and cut them with bolt cutters to conform to the shape necessary to fill the gap under the field fence.
> 
> I usually take down trees vs. using them for fencing, but in the places where I have seen it done, a 2x4 or similar board is fastened to the tree, then the field fence is fastened to the board. Doing so buys some extra years before the fence and tree are one.
> 
> FWIW, we use a wire configuration that has ----y narrow horizontal gaps at the bottom that increase in height towards the top. I've had it for a couple of years with no issues with horned goats. Keeping the fence line clear so goats aren't tempted is key, though.


What you describe is similar to what I had for my pigs but was worried about the does getting their heads through and getting stuck in the rigid panels. The fence will be on the perimeter so not much I can do about cleaning the other side though I will offer to clean it when the property gets bought. Right now it is vacant property and govt. owned. Anyone looking for a 7. 5 acre piney forest in the shape of a triangle with two roads frontage, maybe cheap when it goes on market?


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## homstdr74 (Jul 4, 2011)

Tango said:


> Also thinking of a panel fence for the buck, when I have one. I'm worried they would stick their head through and get stuck though - much more of a problem when the wire is 4 gauge than when it is 12. Would it be better just to fence him with field fence or will he pulverize it?


He (and all the rest of them) will stand on field fence and weaken it. Be sure to put a couple of strands of Gaucho bobwahr on top of the field fence---that usually keeps them off. Of course they'll just stand on the wire below it. 

Goats are really hard on fencing. I forgot to mention previously that at the depth of the hollers I like to run Gaucho bobwahr under the field fence to close up any possible gap. Some people, especially sheep owners, always run barbs under the field fence to keep their nosiness on the proper side. 

We eventually went to using panels around those spots where they congregated the most, such as anyplace near the shop, barn or house. They are curious animals, and hang out near "civilization" a lot, especially around feeding or milking time. Yes they do get their heads stuck, but no more than in field fence---didn't seem too much harder to get them out of one or the other.


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## Tango (Aug 19, 2002)

homstdr74 said:


> He (and all the rest of them) will stand on field fence and weaken it. Be sure to put a couple of strands of Gaucho bobwahr on top of the field fence---that usually keeps them off. Of course they'll just stand on the wire below it.
> 
> Goats are really hard on fencing. I forgot to mention previously that at the depth of the hollers I like to run Gaucho bobwahr under the field fence to close up any possible gap. Some people, especially sheep owners, always run barbs under the field fence to keep their nosiness on the proper side.
> 
> We eventually went to using panels around those spots where they congregated the most, such as anyplace near the shop, barn or house. They are curious animals, and hang out near "civilization" a lot, especially around feeding or milking time. Yes they do get their heads stuck, but no more than in field fence---didn't seem too much harder to get them out of one or the other.


Okay, thanks. I can use some barbed wire to put a fine point on the field fence- top and bottom.As I plan this out I'm very glad the hard stuff isn't for this year. Just a farily staright and not too unlevel section this year  What breed do you have?


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## homstdr74 (Jul 4, 2011)

Tango said:


> Okay, thanks. I can use some barbed wire to put a fine point on the field fence- top and bottom.As I plan this out I'm very glad the hard stuff isn't for this year. Just a farily staright and not too unlevel section this year  What breed do you have?


At present, none. We have had, over the years, Swiss Alpine, Nubian, Toggenburg (our favorite), a mixture of all three, some "brush goats", and, finally, Boers. We milked for over twenty years, made all of our dairy products (milk, cottage (farmer's)cheese, yogurt, hard cheese). Raised three children on the products from those milk goats. After the kids began departing for adventures elsewhere, I had the bright idea of raising Boers for sale. Turns out that wasn't such a good idea after all, since this batch of them wandered beyond fence boundaries too often. 

We took up raising miniature horses. I really enjoy having them around, but I miss the goats cleaning up my pasture area, so I intend to get more of them soon. They are much better than I at pasture maintenance.


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## Doug Hodges (Jul 22, 2013)

Ive had lots of years of fence building here in these hills. Like others have said, I wouldn't use trees at all. I know its easier at the time but as they grow, your fence will tighten and raise and twist, etc. I think you said it would just be corners where you nailed to. Are those trees full grown mature trees. Of course, it will be years but fence that I built 20 years ago would of lasted much longer if I hadn't of nailed to trees. Over the years, the trees died, were blown over, struck by lightning or whatever happened to them. I would have to cut these areas out and add posts and tie the fence back in. As for the hollow and hills, you need to use more posts in drastic elevation changes. More is better always. Before starting the fence. String a line from beginning point to ending point and clear all the smaller stuff and the trees in the way. That will make your job so much easier and you will have straight fence. Im sure you know all this stuff but these are things that come to mind. Ive put up miles and miles of fence over the years. IF you plan to use barbwire on the top then it can be your string line as well.


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## Tango (Aug 19, 2002)

Doug Hodges said:


> Ive had lots of years of fence building here in these hills. Like others have said, I wouldn't use trees at all. I know its easier at the time but as they grow, your fence will tighten and raise and twist, etc. I think you said it would just be corners where you nailed to. Are those trees full grown mature trees. Of course, it will be years but fence that I built 20 years ago would of lasted much longer if I hadn't of nailed to trees. Over the years, the trees died, were blown over, struck by lightning or whatever happened to them. I would have to cut these areas out and add posts and tie the fence back in. As for the hollow and hills, you need to use more posts in drastic elevation changes. More is better always. Before starting the fence. String a line from beginning point to ending point and clear all the smaller stuff and the trees in the way. That will make your job so much easier and you will have straight fence. Im sure you know all this stuff but these are things that come to mind. Ive put up miles and miles of fence over the years. IF you plan to use barbwire on the top then it can be your string line as well.


Thanks. Yeah full grown mature trees that mark the perimeter- can't cut them downI can loosen the staples bit by bit. The perimeter will be maintained cleaned on schedule as others have mentioned and I have learned, stock will find a hole  I just went out to walk the first section to be fenced next month and it is not so complicated but it does have quite a dip that I thought not to fence in this time but think I will. Thanks for the advice


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## Pony (Jan 6, 2003)

I would avoid barbed wire at all costs. A doe deciding the she can jump a fence can easily rip her bag wide open, and you can lose a favorite milker - or at least half her udder. 

Extra t-posts, extra staples... everyone has great suggestions. 

And a willing DS to help you? Priceless!


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## Tango (Aug 19, 2002)

Pony said:


> I would avoid barbed wire at all costs. A doe deciding the she can jump a fence can easily rip her bag wide open, and you can lose a favorite milker - or at least half her udder.


So you advise no barbed wire neither on top nor on the bottom? I have read about accidents like that  guess I'd forgotten they involved fences


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## Nancy_in_GA (Oct 20, 2004)

homstdr74 said:


> .... Some people, especially sheep owners, always run barbs under the field fence to keep their nosiness on the proper side.


If I were doing our fence over again, I would have run one strand of barbed wire all along the bottom first, below the field fence, for two reasons: First, the dirt and leaves will eventually pile up on the lower strand of the field fence and it will deteriorate faster. Easier to replace a stretch of barbed wire at the bottom than field fence. And second, it helps to discourage neighbor's dogs from digging under the fence.


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## jwal10 (Jun 5, 2010)

Perimeter fence I use 2 barbed wire top and 1 bottom. 3" off ground, 1 knob between barb and field fence, one between top barb and field, 2 knobs between the 2 top barb wires. Fence needs to be tall enough a goat won't even try. I use 6" stay -48" tall. 8' corner posts and 7' line posts, 6' T post. Cross fences no barb. Straight runs to h brace, wrap wire around corner/end posts. Stapled to rest of wood posts, not very tight. All sudden changes of elevation or direction gets an H brace and wrapped, then new run. At the pond, steep rise end at bottom, start new at top and a short run or cattle panel on steep slope. I also do not wrap or staple to trees. Use corner posts and wrap. I use a treated 2"x just tack to tree and staple fence to 2"x. Trees sway in a wind storm....James


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## Clovers_Clan (Jul 17, 2012)

For the corners you could always just do the run up to within a couple feet of the tree on either side. And connect the open ends with a cattle panel and a couple of boards. Sort of a notched corner. The notch shouldn't need any additional bracing. That way you can still keep it on the property line and not damage the tree.


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## KathleenElsie (Sep 28, 2013)

Many years ago I had a young filly get tangled in wire that vandals cut. She was a 2 year old gaming prospect, her legs were never healed well enough to be ridden. She was used as a broodmare.


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## motdaugrnds (Jul 3, 2002)

I can tell you how we did it as our land was similar to what OP described. 

First off, it is best NOT to attach fencing to trees because, in time, either the trees die or grows around the fence. We used old pieces of water hose to attach fencing to trees.

Since we, too, raise goats, the fencing needs to be strong enough so that, when they stand on it to reach across to whatever they see looking good, the wire will not bend down so much they can eventually get across it. (This meant a solid post either treated wood or metal T ones placed every 4....yes four....feet.)

To go up and down slopes, we used a come-along to stretch the fencing and where it started leaving a gap at the bottom (due to the slope of the land) is where we cut the fence. Starting that fence again going down or up hill...This simply meant the ends of that fencing were cut at a slant to fit the posts holding it.

We had a couple of gulleys to work around; and the way we did this was to DOUBLE FENCE. This meant an 8 ft long fence post stabilized well in concrete on each side of that gulley the fencing crossed with one piece of fencing at the bottom of that gulley and another piece of fencing overlapping it and continuing up those 2 posts.

Hope this helps.


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## aart (Oct 20, 2012)

I would think you wouldn't want a fence _right on_ the property line, but 6-8-10 feet inside of it so you CAN maintain both sides of the fence....and were your property line properly surveyed? 

I found that the fences that I thought marked the property lines when I bought this place were in fact 10 feet off the property lines once it was truly surveyed.


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## Tango (Aug 19, 2002)

Okay the consensus is not to staple to the trees. I wan't going to use the trees in place of posts, just nail to them if they were right on the wire as an added support. Will try to stay just inside the property line and cut down smaller trees that are in the line on my side. Can't do anything about the other side... really happy none of this hard work is for this year  Thanks ya'll :cowboy:


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## Tango (Aug 19, 2002)

aart said:


> I would think you wouldn't want a fence _right on_ the property line, but 6-8-10 feet inside of it so you CAN maintain both sides of the fence....and were your property line properly surveyed?
> 
> I found that the fences that I thought marked the property lines when I bought this place were in fact 10 feet off the property lines once it was truly surveyed.


Thanks. If I leave any measurable distance it will be used by the neighbor when they need a fence and it will be a source of tension and stress for me and I will kick myself for not fencing to the line- I've seen it happen and I have enough to deal with already. My survey goes by an old fence which is down but still traceable and the side I'm fencing is gvt. owned presently and the markers are fresh.


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## Tango (Aug 19, 2002)

motdaugrnds said:


> Since we, too, raise goats, the fencing needs to be strong enough so that, when they stand on it to reach across to whatever they see looking good, the wire will not bend down so much they can eventually get across it. (This meant a solid post either treated wood or metal T ones placed every 4....yes four....feet.)
> 
> To go up and down slopes, we used a come-along to stretch the fencing and where it started leaving a gap at the bottom (due to the slope of the land) is where we cut the fence. Starting that fence again going down or up hill...This simply meant the ends of that fencing were cut at a slant to fit the posts holding it.
> 
> ...


Yes, very helpful, thanks


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