# Options for LGD Pup with High Prey Drive Scores on PAT



## sportweasel (Jul 23, 2012)

We have a litter of Great Pyrenees which we are raising and selling as LGDs. We temperament tested the puppies at 7 weeks using the Volhard Puppy Aptitude Test (PAT), according to the book "Livestock Protection Dogs: Selection, Care and Training" by Dawydiak and Sims. One of our male puppies had scores indicating he has a high prey drive. We re-tested him a week later and had similar results. I know the PAT is just a tool and is not fool-proof, but my conscience will not allow me to sell this puppy without disclosing these scores, and I'm not sure we should be marketing him as an LGD anyway, with scores like these. I am considering two options: one, is to market the pup as a companion dog; two, is to keep him, train him and try to sell him as a started LGD later, once we have his prey drive in check. What do y'all think? Am I selling him short by not placing him as an LGD? Or should I try to place him as a companion? Thanks in advance for your insight and opinions.


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## Guest (Dec 19, 2014)

JMO but you have already said my thoughts. I personally would hold onto him until you were confident he will be a good LGD if that is what you would market him as. If someone new to LGD were to purchase him for the purpose of using him as one and did not work out it could be bad for all involved.

Not every pup born is a good LGD just based on the breed. Could be, could not be. The book is a tool, not an end all. There are many that would want a more mature LGD already trained rather than a puppy if he stayed until trained. Puppyhood can be difficult for someone wanting an effective LGD sooner than later.


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## sportweasel (Jul 23, 2012)

Davstep said:


> If someone new to LGD were to purchase him for the purpose of using him as one and did not work out it could be bad for all involved.


Davstep, you expressed my concern exactly.

What about selling him as a companion dog (to the right home)?


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## bluefish (Jan 27, 2006)

I would think he might do well in a home (who knew what they were doing) that was looking for a companion/family guardian. My first pyr was for that purpose. We had a lot of bear and mountain lion problems to the point the I wasn't comfortable letting the kids out to play even in the yard. I got him to watch the kids and he did/does and excellent job at that. We also had livestock, but there are plenty of people out there who don't or who would have them in such a fashion that the dog won't have much contact with them.

I would also consider keeping him a _little_ longer and seeing how he develops. Are we talking high prey drive like a BC or a terrier, or just high for a pyr? How driven is he? I would think you might have a clue to that by 12-16 weeks, wouldn't you?


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## Guest (Dec 19, 2014)

sportweasel said:


> Davstep, you expressed my concern exactly.
> 
> What about selling him as a companion dog (to the right home)?


 To the right home with an educated buyer, LGD do make great companion dogs. If the right home was presented I would consider the same if the litter was mine.

If I was to get another LGD as a puppy, 12 weeks of age is the minimum I would want it to stay with the working mother. For myself I would add a mature working LGD if I were looking again.


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## citxmech (Dec 26, 2011)

I question whether a test for "prey drive" based upon retrieving is worth much for a young pup. 

Our Kangal x Boerboel cross (who was raised with goats) goes into high prey drive as to smaller non-predator animals like chickens, squirrels and rats, but seems to transition into guard drive when the critters get bigger and more predatory, such as opossums and raccoons. 

Last time she saw a deer on the property, however, she just looked at it and didn't even bother to follow to take a closer look or a sniff. She loves to play fetch now more than she did as pup.


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## sportweasel (Jul 23, 2012)

Thank you all for your responses. Your thoughts pretty much line up with what I was already thinking, so I'm glad to know I'm on the right track.

The PAT test is only one piece of the puzzle and is not fool proof, but seeing as it doesn't totally contradict my personal observations of this pup, I don't think I can ignore it, either. He is not a lost cause as a LGD, by any means, and I'm willing to hold on to him as long as I need to in order to find him the right home (both for him and for his new owner).

If the right companion home presents itself, I will consider placing him there. Otherwise, we will continue to observe him and train him here.

The earliest the puppies can go to their new homes is ten weeks (Christmas Day!), but they can stay with us (and mom and dad) up to twelve weeks without additional charge. I try to educate all my prospective buyers as to the realities of this class of dog and this specific breed. My husband would probably say I "over-educate" as I'm pretty sure I've talked several people out of buying one of my dogs. All that to say, I'm not looking for the quick sale -- I'm willing to keep any and all of them as long as it takes to find the right situation at the right time.

Just so you can see who we are talking about here, and because he's so stinking cute, here is a picture of our little "killer" (ha ha)


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## sportweasel (Jul 23, 2012)

citxmech said:


> I question whether a test for "prey drive" based upon retrieving is worth much for a young pup.
> 
> Our Kangal x Boerboel cross (who was raised with goats) goes into high prey drive as to smaller non-predator animals like chickens, squirrels and rats, but seems to transition into guard drive when the critters get bigger and more predatory, such as opossums and raccoons.
> 
> Last time she saw a deer on the property, however, she just looked at it and didn't even bother to follow to take a closer look or a sniff. She loves to play fetch now more than she did as pup.


My husband is very interested in Boerboels and I am really intriqued by the Kangal x Boergoel crosses as a possible all around farm dog/homestead guard for us. Even though he's on the opposite corner of the country from me, I'm frequently checking in on the OlympicDog's website and his Kangal x Beorboel crosses.


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## Maura (Jun 6, 2004)

In a family with young children I&#8217;d advise the gift of a crate or leash and let them and get the puppy on the weekend. I got our standard poodle for Christmas Day, but the children all left to their fathers&#8217; after Mass, so it wasn&#8217;t an issue.


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## sportweasel (Jul 23, 2012)

Maura said:


> In a family with young children Iâd advise the gift of a crate or leash and let them and get the puppy on the weekend. I got our standard poodle for Christmas Day, but the children all left to their fathersâ after Mass, so it wasnât an issue.



I don't have any pups actually going to homes on Christmas Day â that just happens to be when they turn 10 weeks. But definitely something to keep in mind should someone want a last minute Christmas present. I can only imagine how freaked out my pups would be to go from the barn to inside a house amid the mayhem of Christmas morning.


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## wintrrwolf (Sep 29, 2009)

sportweasel said:


> I don't have any pups actually going to homes on Christmas Day â that just happens to be when they turn 10 weeks. But definitely something to keep in mind should someone want a last minute Christmas present. I can only imagine how freaked out my pups would be to go from the barn to inside a house amid the mayhem of Christmas morning.


yeah makes for a great awww moment in a movie but not in reality.


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## citxmech (Dec 26, 2011)

sportweasel said:


> My husband is very interested in Boerboels and I am really intriqued by the Kangal x Boergoel crosses as a possible all around farm dog/homestead guard for us. Even though he's on the opposite corner of the country from me, I'm frequently checking in on the OlympicDog's website and his Kangal x Beorboel crosses.


Let me know what questions you have and I'll do my best to answer them!


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