# Lambs not growing like we would like...any advice?



## ONThorsegirl (Apr 2, 2005)

Our lambs that we have in the barn for 4-H aren't growing as we would like. We wormed them about 1 month ago. We are feeding almsot 3 pounds of feed per day, per lamb. Whole Barley, Whole Corn and a handful of Alfalfa Pellets. Is there anything we can also feed to kep them gain weight? The lambs also have full access to mineral, salt and free choice hay and water. 

Anything we can do to make them gain? Put them outside in a small pasture, and feed them there? What grains or supplements will help with weight gain? 

Also we have one market lamb (to be market lamb), he is about 65 lbs right now but he is getting more of a hay belly than meat on his bones, he looks rather thin than anything? we did worm him and that helped this was a month ago. Should we worm again? What can we do for this lamb?

Melissa


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## Sprout (Dec 28, 2005)

When is your fair. Remember these lambs are putting most of that food into growing their frame size and won't start to fill out until about a month before fair. Your feed probably needs more protien. I would see if your feed store has anything formulated especialy for show lambs. Show lambs shouldn't have acces to pasture a small dirt run is fine but a great big pasture encourages more movment than you want. I would take away the hay they don't need it and that's the source of your hay belly look. A small handfull of alfalfa or oat hay is all they need. Another thing you can do is add molasses to their feed and put in cracked or rolled grains instead of whole ones. How old are your lambs?


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## Ross (May 9, 2002)

Sorry to disagree but I can only guess your protein level, it might be a problem but may not be. I always leave hay with all my sheep and lambs if they don't want it they won't eat it. I'd guess you have worms under control but maybe not, what did you worm with? They could have tape worm if you used Ivomec, and not Safeguard. Two other possibilities are low level coccidia hampering gains, (you'd need a vet to treat that) and selenium deficiency. (you and I are in a very deficient area) I know you gave a supplemental dose at birth but that's long gone they may need another shot. It only lasts about a month. Some vitamin E (brewers yeast) would ensure selenium uptake so add a little to the feed. Oh and barley can cause a selenium deficiency so while its a terrific feed and you should feed it just know it has that side effect at times.


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## ONThorsegirl (Apr 2, 2005)

Our local feed stores don't have any feed specializing for show lambs. 

So if we up the protein level what can we add?

Also these lambs are North Country Cheviots and a couple Crosses. It seems once they get to about 55 ish pounds they just stop, normally we don't show many of the cheviots and show the crosses. I'm not happy with how they are turning out. 

Melissa


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## 6e (Sep 10, 2005)

We have Hampshires and the man we bought our Hamps from said to feed the lambs around 16%. Our mix comes from the co-op and is just a mixture of whole milo, rolled corn, whole oats, molasses and bean meal. They do have access to pasture and are probably a little fatter than we'd like, but if they're penned up, I would think they should have some kind of hay because because they need that for proper rumen. That's just my opinion. Maybe that breed of sheep just doesn't grow that fast. Around here everyone shows Hampshires, Suffolks, Dorsets or crosses thereof.


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## Ross (May 9, 2002)

If you need more protein you could add more pellets but I'd add roasted soy bean or micro beans. What percent protein is the pellets?


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## Patty0315 (Feb 1, 2004)

How about boss added fat and nice coats ???


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## Goatsandsheep (Jun 7, 2006)

This is what we do for are 4-h lambs. Feed 4% of body weight are feed is 16% protein, we worm once a month switching every two month between ivomice and panucar, every one is feed separate they get 15-20 mins to eat grain. No exercise till weight is 100 pounds, you can work on setting up and leading before 100 pound. You may try feed 3 times a day. Hay is feed together in a big feed. Good luck


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## ONThorsegirl (Apr 2, 2005)

Alfalfa Pellets have a protein % of 17. 

Whats the difference between Alfalfa Pellets and Rabbit Pellets, 1 % and like $4.00? Would there be something in Rabbit Pellets that are bad for sheep? lol I'm just thinking about the money you save.

Melissa


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## Patty0315 (Feb 1, 2004)

I can think of copper for one. Look around you may be able to find pellets cheaper.


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## Somerhill (Dec 13, 2005)

Rabbit pellets have added copper. Penny wise, pound foolish.  

I would suspect a sub-clinical coccidia infection for your lamb's lack of growth. That and a lack of proper protein level. The coccidia can be diagnosed by a stool sample taken to your vet. It will also tell you if your de-wormer is working, and when its necessary to de-worm. 

Lisa at Somerhill


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## ONThorsegirl (Apr 2, 2005)

Thanks I figured it wouldn't work. 

Alright thanks, I will check out the coccidia issue. Maybe thats it, we have never had coccidia before but I will definitly look into it. Thanks,

Mleissa


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## Patty0315 (Feb 1, 2004)

I am not sure about the copper content but most feeds have it added. Feed a medicated lamb grower and your cocc problem will be solved. As far as worming what did you worm with and at what dosage?

There are lots of different ways to up protein , soy bean meal is another. Boss I like because it is high in fat and works wonders on there coats.


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## Somerhill (Dec 13, 2005)

Hi Patty
What is "boss"? I read your first post, and was scratching my head, thinking it was a typo.  
Lisa at Somerhill


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## Ross (May 9, 2002)

Black oil sunflower seed I think. Can't say I've noticed it here but maybe. 
Melissa the pellet sounds like a complete ration not a suppliment. Look for a protein suppliment around 35% protein and cut back the amount. Actually you really need to get a complete ration formulated most feed dealers can do this for you and maybe buying in bulk (have you got a gravity wagon or bin?) so you could both get it cheaper and have decox added to the pellets at mixing you need a vet script to the dealer for this. OR maybe there's a calf grower without added copper but has Rumensin (Monensin) in it. It's as good as Decox and no script. If I were betting on a solution to your problem I would say it's Selenium, tape worm, ration or coccidia in that order.


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## Patty0315 (Feb 1, 2004)

Yes Boss = black oil sunflower seed.

I have had a problem with selium this year. It would not be a bad idea to hit them with bose either.


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## ONThorsegirl (Apr 2, 2005)

So: 
Alright, Thank you everyone. 

If we were to feed a lamb creep 16% would that fix the coccidia problem and the upped protein, I can't find any type of lamb grower around here, not many formulated feeds at our local feed stores. We can get ewe ration 15%, lamb creep 16% or 15%. and then the whole grains. we can also get a supplement that is 36% but we wont need a full tonne of feed and isn't the only way to feed the supplement is by the tonne or can you buy a bag and feed it in small amounts????

BOSS, How much per lamb do you give? I can get that very easy, we sell it by the 50lb bags. I work at a feed store, the one I work at is kinda expensive so we buy our feed at another store  but all of our products at this one. 

I will buy a bottle of selenium and give them all a shot.

We wormed with Ivermec drench, what else could we worm with? 

Melissa


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## Patty0315 (Feb 1, 2004)

Valbazan is another wormer. Boss a couple of handfulls at a time and work up . Lots of good fats in there and also roughage {sp} The selenium doeas not work alone you also need vit e with it. I forgot you can buy it over the counter up there . I may just have to make a trip to Kingston. The creep feed has to be medicated to work for the coccidia.

Good luck , Patty


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## Ross (May 9, 2002)

Coccidia may not be the problem (it's just a possibility) but just moving to a higher percent ration won't fix it (although it will strengthen the lambs and THAT will help) . Cocci thrive in weakened animals (we all have it to a small degree, people sheep birds etc. although they are not comunicable normally) so if the lambs are weakened from a selenium deficiency then giving the selenium might improve their over all health and reduce a minor cocci problem. You'd need a sulfa to correct a serious outbreak of cocci. Worming with Ivomec will not kill tape worm, so you use double dosed Safeguard (or valbazen, or a couple others that slip my mind) to kill those.


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## ONThorsegirl (Apr 2, 2005)

The selenium we buy is selenium-E, assuming this is Selenium and Vitamin E. I have to work tomorrow so I will pick that up along with the BLACK OIL SUNFLOWER SEEDS, 

Whats the maximum of the BOSS you would feed to the lambs? 

Yes I know about the ivomec, we have ivomec but we will definitly have to pick another type of wormer up. 

Question about wormers: The horse paste type, in the syringe, There is safegaurd paste, can this be used or do you have to buy the liquid larger amount. I though someone had mentioned that they use the paste type. 

Sorry for all the stupid Questions. 

Melissa


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## SmokedCow (Sep 25, 2004)

Question..where are u giving them the shots?

Second...what if u scratched all that..and went to just Corn and 16% feeder pellets? Maybe its just ur lambs...i just dont see these lambs getting very big..i mean, like frame wise and weight wise. Also..are u maxing them out on ur feed? giving them all they can eat..to see how much you should feed. Protein will build the muscle...IMO...i would cut the hay all together...at show time..it might be okay, just a lil hand full, but here we dont feed it cuz it takes away from the feed. I dunno..just a thought.
When is your fair? i might not have caught it.. 
Also: could u be over worming them? I know sometimes the wormer just stops working cuz the worms are use to it...
Best of luck!
AJ


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## Goatsandsheep (Jun 7, 2006)

horse paste worms are fine you need to double the dose for rumen animal because it goes thought them fast.


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## ONThorsegirl (Apr 2, 2005)

What do you mean where are you giving him shots? I haven't given him any shots yet, only when I get the Sel-E will I give it to him. We finished our last bottle earlier this year on young lambs. 

Our fair is the first weekend in September, labor Day weekend. 
Our Market Lambs are 34 kg, 34 kg, and 32 kgs right now we would like them a little heavier. 

We are going to try to worm for tape worms. If horse paste wormer works, what have people used and how much have you given. We have 7 lambs to do.

We also have to worm the rest of the herd this week or this weekend. If you give Safegaurd to the rest of the herd they will not neet the ivermec for the Worms Safegaud doesn't kill? 

The problem is our feed stores don't sell specific feeds, we can't get lamb grower pellets here, ewe ration or creep feed is all we can get. We will ask around.

Melissa


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## 6e (Sep 10, 2005)

About wormers. We haven't found the horse wormers very effective. Valbazen, Ivomec or Cydectin are better. We give all three orally.


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## SmokedCow (Sep 25, 2004)

OHH! im sorry i didnt catch that u wernt giving them shots! My Bad!! in pound what are their weight...i don tknow kgs. but prolly right under 100lbs? and you prolly want them about 145? and my understanding (atleast on hogs) is that SafeGaurd is better, cuz it gets all the lil ones Ivermec miss..Oh..that isnt good...WEll i guess..just keep what your doing..u have about 58 days...they should be good. Best of luck
AJ


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## ONThorsegirl (Apr 2, 2005)

Well I bought BOSS's and fed them with their grain last night, they aren't to thrilled about the seeds but I'm sure with time they might eat them. we might have to add some molasses or something to the feed to get them to eat them. 

We also bought Safeguard, the horse wormer paste I worked out the math and gave the right amount the lambs. Its really amazing how quick wormers work, they had soft manure up until yesterday, I went and checked on them this morning and everyone is pooing raisins!!!  So when did you ever think you would be happy with the way your sheep poo. 

I checked the poo and little tiny dead worms, little white ones about a cm long. No tape worms, nothing of the likes that I have seen.( there could have been some but from what I have seen I haven't seen any tapes. 

They haven't eatten much grain since last night, probably because of the activity going on in side their tumyy's.


OUR SHOW,
so our show is the first weekend of September and we only want the weights to be 80-115, we don't have the huge weight classes like they do in the states, our market lamb classes are for lambs from the 80-115 bracet, normally if they are heavier you don't make very much come the show sale. 
I think now that we have the worm problem solving we should be able to keep some weight on them. and get them up to weight alright. 


Thanks everyone for the help, we will now start to switch our wormers one to the other for now on.

Melissa


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