# round selection



## jimisod (Jun 21, 2008)

I am an Ohio hunter(shotgun only so I am a pump action fan) looking to expand to adjacent states of PA and WV. I need to add a deer rifle to my gun locker. The gun I am looking at, Remington 7600, comes in .270, .308, and 30-06. 

I know there are Elk in the Area of PA I am likely to hunt so I am thinking that the .308 is best being the center of the range and a common round. Any opinion form this group?


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## Murray in ME (May 10, 2002)

If I were going to be elk hunting, I'd choose the .30-06. It and the .308 are very similar but the .30-06 will give a couple hundred feet per second more velocity with all bullet weights than the .308. That's not much more but it does make a difference. Especially with the heavier (180 grain) bullets that I'd prefer for elk. As far as common calibers, the .30-06 is even more popular than the .308.

That being said, any of the 3 cartridges you mentioned will work fine for elk. There are a few things, in my opinion, that are much more important than which one of them you choose.

1. Use a fairly heavy for caliber bullet - 180 grain in .30-06 and .308 and 150 grain in .270.

2. Use a high quality bullet such as the Nosler Partition or other premium bullet.

3. Don't try to take a shot at a range beyond which you are comfortable shooting. That is, of course an individual thing. For most hunters who don't do a lot of long range practice, 250-300 yards is a long shot.

Good hunting.


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## tallpaul (Sep 5, 2004)

Well actually Ohio hunting is not restricted to shotgun only... even with deer hunting here you have additional choices of bow,crossbow,muzzle loader and pistol.... coyote and other vermin centerfire rifles are allowed etc 

As for your question for strictly hunting for deer/elk as has been stated any of the three ya mentioned will be fine. I would also add 7mm mag/300 mag as they are good rounds. However in your shoes I would lean to the old workhorse 30-06. I like the longer case and heavier bullet choices for the elk side of things... It is an excellent starting point for rifle hunting and versatile.


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## tyusclan (Jan 1, 2005)

Any one of the three should do the job, but if I were going to be elk hunting I'd probably opt for the .30-06.

The 7600 is a great rifle, btw.


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## CSA again (May 2, 2007)

30-06


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## Wis Bang (Feb 20, 2009)

I have both a 30-06 and a .270 in Rem 700 and I prefer the .270 for serious shooting. It has flatter balistics yet w/ good shot placement it has taken every game animal in North America.

The '06 has more variety in bullet selection available yet I still like the way the .270 shoots.

For deer I use Rem coreloc in 150grn in either rifle.

The .308 is the same bullet size as the '06 in a shorter action. I never minded the extra little bit it takes to cycle the bolt on the longer actions...


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## denaliguide (Aug 30, 2008)

of the calibers listed will pose that kind of problem. If you dont reload, certainly .30/'06 is a great way to go. The cartridge still cant live up to its full potential as long as there are still some single heat treated hi number Springfields about, but hey, you can get good ammo anywhere.

Having had both the pump and auto in Remington, .35 Whelen, .270 Win, and '06. Were it Alaska, I'd say go with the Mag, 7mm or .300 Win, the .30/'06 being the minimum ticket there. Over many years of lugging weapons thru the Pa & Ak brush, I have kicked back to lighter weapons, shorter, more portable, more shootable in the off season, especially since I like to re-load. Therefore, short actions are mostly on my mind, and the first shot, so I have re-trenched to bolt weapons, specifically Mausers. If I had to do it all over again, handloading, I'd have a 1894 Swede Mauser customed into the Mannicher stock config, with custom trigger and sights, scope optional.

Not handloading, comparisons tell me I'd select the 7MM/.08, as the hottest loaded flat shooting cartridge made in the rifle most suiting my needs, basically a Rem Mod 7 in the Youth config, short, hot loaded even from the factory, and shootable all the time, from ground hogs to bears, basically with only two loads, 120 Gr and 140 Gr. The particular config already comes with iron sights and tapped for scope, so it leaves options, specifically I found a trigger job ALWAYS helped every gun I ever shot.

By far the single most popular caliber in N. American, the .30/'06 is probably the most frequently choosen multipurpose gun around. I havent found that the instant 2nd shot capability as important as I once thought. Having a repeater is important, but making the first shot count is more important. Possibly bird hunting, pheasants, specifically was the place I felt the instant 2nd shot follow up capability was most important. Basically, how easily the gun toted, and mounted was a huge factor. Once you have a basic caliber, say 6mm or greater, caliber was probably the least important factor, if it had trajectory and power of a .243 Win or better.

Good Luck in PA, like to hunt there again sometime.

DG



jimisod said:


> I am an Ohio hunter(shotgun only so I am a pump action fan) looking to expand to adjacent states of PA and WV. I need to add a deer rifle to my gun locker. The gun I am looking at, Remington 7600, comes in .270, .308, and 30-06.
> 
> I know there are Elk in the Area of PA I am likely to hunt so I am thinking that the .308 is best being the center of the range and a common round. Any opinion form this group?


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## GREENCOUNTYPETE (Jul 25, 2006)

i happen to be a 30-06 fan and easy to find ammo almost every hardware store carries 30-06 in a 150 or 180 gr soft point


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## farmerjon (Jan 7, 2009)

.270, The ammo is ez to find also. Flat shooting hard hitting rifle. You will have no problem taking an elk with a .270. Im not a fan of the 06 and I cant stand the .308. Altho given the choice I would take my TC .50 cal muzzle loader and have a gun you can use for all your needs.


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## Wis Bang (Feb 20, 2009)

farmerjon said:


> .270, The ammo is ez to find also. Flat shooting hard hitting rifle. You will have no problem taking an elk with a .270. Im not a fan of the 06 and I cant stand the .308. Altho given the choice I would take my TC .50 cal muzzle loader and have a gun you can use for all your needs.


I have a T/C renegade in .54cal/flint. It was dad's and I never got a chance to shoot it w/ him & had to learn about it after he passed. I use it in both of PA's muzzleloading deer seasons and use the .270 for rifle. It is a ton of fun to learn to feed and shoot a blackpowder rocklock.


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## GREENCOUNTYPETE (Jul 25, 2006)

i find it hard to see from real balistic data from winchester where 270 is vastly seperior to 30-06 

yes i like 30-06 , but that aside people talk about one round is better or worse 

and say things like 270 is a much harder hitting flatter round than 30-06 when looking at the actuall data tables for the same weight bullet and same type of bullet there is less than 1 inch difference at 300 yards and muzzel volocity was 50 feet per second faster 
If you choose a different bullet they were even or numbers change in the other direction slightly 
when ever somone starts talking about how one round is far supperior to another yet data looks very close i wonder how th claim is warranted are they comparing a modern hunting round in one to the old surpluss of another. or is it that the max preasure lets you play more with a reload in one veres the other especialy a 270 to 30-06 comparison isn't 270 a necked down 30-06 to 27 cal

winchester ammo has a very nice comparison tool to compare almost any round you like to another


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## Mallow (Aug 4, 2006)

I've recently switched to using a .270 WSM and love the gun. I know its not on the list but thought i'd toss that in though its not as common as the 270 or the 06.


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## Wis Bang (Feb 20, 2009)

I have an '06 and a .270 and I like the .270 better, it is a personal choice. Both work and the deer drop where they were when hit. I just like shooting the .270 more...


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## Ed Norman (Jun 8, 2002)

Last fall DW used a 280 Improved and I used a 25-06. Two shots, two dead elk.

Use whatever you feel comfortable with.


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## Murray in ME (May 10, 2002)

GREENCOUNTYPETE said:


> i find it hard to see from real balistic data from winchester where 270 is vastly seperior to 30-06
> 
> yes i like 30-06 , but that aside people talk about one round is better or worse
> 
> ...



You're right. About the only practical difference between the two is the availability of heavier bullets in the .30-06. That's why I'd prefer the .30-06 for game the size of elk or larger. Both will do the job though.


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## hunter63 (Jan 4, 2005)

Sorry couldn't resist,
I get a kick out of all the opinions on different calibers, bullets etc.( How many .30 cal rounds are out there?)

This debate will go on as long as we are still able to own and shoot them.

When you think about it, this is being perpetuated by the firearm companies so that you "need" to buy a "new, improved, super duper, go faster, deer seeking bullet, that will do everything," firearm.
I mean who really "needs" a .17 cal rifle?

Don't get me wrong, as I am a big offender of the one man, one gun, line of thinking.(can't have a tool box with only one tool, right?).
Besides it's fun talking about it, even if you are already set in your ways.

But the most important is to sight in,(what ever kind of sight), on what ever you get, practice, practice, practice, know that you can make the shot, before you pull the trigger.

The deer, elk or what ever doesn't care about 100 ft per second difference.
O.K, done with my opinion, I digress..........
Carry on.


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## Cabin Fever (May 10, 2002)

Whatever caliber you pick, I'd be tempted to try a load (handload or factory) using the new Barnes bullet. I've heard a lot of good about them, but have never used them.....yet.


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

Barnes makes good bullets BUT they are high priced.

They do a LOT of damage, and I've never found them to be as accurate as many other brands.

If you HAVE to have a "non lead" bullet, they are the best, but otherwise I dont see them being worth the money.

They are longer than a "normal" bullet of the same weight, so you may have to reduce the powder charge to maintain the correct OAL.

You CAN use a Barnes bullets a couple of steps LIGHTER than normal, since they hold together better than lead.


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## beachcomber (Dec 2, 2008)

a swiss k 31 will serve well


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## denaliguide (Aug 30, 2008)

a cartridge is a powder container, and rifles have infinite variations, of which we have spoke of a lots of good ones here. My fav is Mauser original, but hey.


Bottom Line : make the shot count, the round dont matter much, as long as it in the vitals.

DG




beachcomber said:


> a swiss k 31 will serve well


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## Ohio dreamer (Apr 6, 2006)

OK, DH (jimisod) missed what I feel is an important question. Exactly why do we call a 30-06 "thirty-ought six"? Why ought and not oh or zero??

OK, I'll go back under my lurker rock, now....but I really would like to know if anyone has any idea.


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## jimisod (Jun 21, 2008)

The wife's (Ohio Dreamer) comments aside (although a good question for us collectors of useless knowledge) thanks for the information and opinions. I was not considering the .270 since it was smaller and that made me think it did not have the power for the larger game. 

I bow to the comments on Ohio hunting restrictions to shotgun only. I have a cross bow for the bow season. I have not considered the muzzle loader either for no good reason. 

All comments have placed me in a rougher spot. You have added the .270 to the original question (I only added it so no-one jumped in and screamed "hay they make that gun in .270!"). The muzzle loader would extend my season using bullet vs bolt.

All in all good food for thought. Since I am planning on buying after gun season, but before inventory, I still have time to make decisions.


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## Cabin Fever (May 10, 2002)

Ohio dreamer said:


> OK, DH (jimisod) missed what I feel is an important question. Exactly why do we call a 30-06 "thirty-ought six"? Why ought and not oh or zero??
> 
> OK, I'll go back under my lurker rock, now....but I really would like to know if anyone has any idea.


The .30-06 cartridge uses a .30" diameter bullet and was developed by Springfield in 1906....thus "thirty ought six Springfield." Back at the turn of the century, people would refer to the first decade of years as "ought X". For instance, 1901 was referred to as "ought one" and 1905 was called "ought five" and so on.


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## Ed Norman (Jun 8, 2002)

Cabin Fever said:


> The .30-06 cartridge uses a .30" diameter bullet and was developed by Springfield in 1906....thus "thirty ought six Springfield." Back at the turn of the century, people would refer to the first decade of years as "ought X". For instance, 1901 was referred to as "ought one" and 1905 was called "ought five" and so on.


Yep, and then when the 30 aught 6 had kids, some of them took the family name, like the 25 aught 6 and the 22 aught 6 Easling and the 8mm aught 6. 

The original round was a 30-03, but it only made it to 1906, I guess.


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## Ohio dreamer (Apr 6, 2006)

Thanks guys!!! We really do love all the "useless knowledge", as DH puts it.


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## Cabin Fever (May 10, 2002)

Ohio dreamer said:


> Thanks guys!!! We really do love all the "useless knowledge", as DH puts it.


No problem. I know how easily women can get confused when talking about firearms.

BTW, when we talk about "double ought" buckshot, we are not talking about a buckshot size that was first introduced in 1900....okay?


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## Ed Norman (Jun 8, 2002)

Cabin Fever said:


> BTW, when we talk about "double ought" buckshot, we are not talking about a buckshot size that was first introduced in 1900....okay?


Of course not, that would be confusing.  
The bigger the shot number, the smaller the shot. 
The bigger the gauge number, the bigger the shotshell.
A .410 isn't a gauge, it's a bore diameter. 

Simple, really. And makes perfect sense.


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## tyusclan (Jan 1, 2005)

Ed Norman said:


> Of course not, that would be confusing.
> The bigger the shot number, the smaller the shot.
> *The bigger the gauge number, the bigger the shotshell.*
> A .410 isn't a gauge, it's a bore diameter.
> ...


I think you got that backwards, didn't you?

A 12 gauge is a smaller number but a bigger shotshell than a 20 gauge.

Gauge is determined by the number of round lead balls of that diameter required to weigh one pound.


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## Wis Bang (Feb 20, 2009)

Ed Norman said:


> Yep, and then when the 30 aught 6 had kids, some of them took the family name, like the 25 aught 6 and the 22 aught 6 Easling and the 8mm aught 6.
> 
> The original round was a 30-03, but it only made it to 1906, I guess.


Actually the 30-06 was an improvement on the 30-03 which was developed in aught 3...because the '03 was not as good as the latest improvements in the German 8mm and the USA wanted something compareable to the 'improved' 8mm.


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## Ed Norman (Jun 8, 2002)

tyusclan said:


> I think you got that backwards, didn't you?
> 
> A 12 gauge is a smaller number but a bigger shotshell than a 20 gauge.
> 
> Gauge is determined by the number of round lead balls of that diameter required to weigh one pound.


Well, I only been a handloader for 30 years and a shooter for 46, so I get confused. But I know the red ones go in the 20 ga and the purple in the 12 and the yellow in the 16 and the 410s will go in any of them. 

I have some 30-03 cartridges in my collection. The differences are very subtle, but they came up with a winner in the final round.


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## tyusclan (Jan 1, 2005)

Ed Norman said:


> Well, I only been a handloader for 30 years and a shooter for 46, so I get confused. But I know the red ones go in the 20 ga and the purple in the 12 and the yellow in the 16 and *the 410s will go in any of them*.




I know what you mean about getting confused. The older I get the more "confused" moments I get.


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