# School Resource Officer Threatens to Shoot Teen for Truancy



## Lisa in WA (Oct 11, 2004)

https://www.tampabay.com/news/pasco...hreatening-to-shoot-a-student-is-going-viral/


Nedra Miller will be the first to tell you her 17-year-old son can act like a child and be a bit rebellious. But that’s not what she’s upset about.

What angers her is the behavior of two adults tasked with monitoring him, one of whom is a law enforcement officer Miller said was out of line when he twice threatened to shoot her son as he tried to leave the River Ridge High School campus in New Port Richey.

Miller obtained bodycam footage of the December incident from the Pasco County Sheriff’s Office and posted it to Facebook last week, where it keeps racking up views and comments from people debating how it all went down and who was more responsible, the child or the adults who were supposed to be in charge.


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## Lisa in WA (Oct 11, 2004)

The teen was mouthy but the Resource officer and his female sidekick were beyond ridiculous. They should have let him go and let the school discipline as needed.


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

Were they planning on a kill shot, or maybe just going to wing him?


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## Lisa in WA (Oct 11, 2004)

HDRider said:


> Were they planning on a kill shot, or maybe just going to wing him?


You have to wonder.

Kind of insane that they expelled the kid. If they expelled every mouthy kid who challenges blowhards there’d be no students left in school.


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## gleepish (Mar 10, 2003)

Well... honestly, I'm kinda torn. I watched the video and I don't think the cop threatened to shoot the kid just out of the blue.. he was told if he came any closer with the truck, he would shoot. I took that to mean, hit me with your vehicle and I will end you. I think that is a reasonable response. He's obviously had some truancy issues in the past and his parents can't keep him in school so... are they just let him come and go as he pleases? And if he does leave and is killed in a freak accident do you think the mom will sue the school for allowing her son to leave? It's a tough situation, but from what I saw I have more sympathy for the adults dealing with him than I do the kid. I will say that I agree that the F bomb may not have been the best word choice, but I have absolutely no problem with a police officer telling anyone if they come any closer with their vehicle they will be shot. I think of it as fair warning.


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## Farmerga (May 6, 2010)

Kid was threatening the Resource officer with a deadly weapon. The Resource officers response was appropriate.


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## Cornhusker (Mar 20, 2003)

17 is not a child unless there's something wrong with him.
Sounds like a momma's boy who was used to getting his own way
Looks like both parties were being stupid


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## Lisa in WA (Oct 11, 2004)

gleepish said:


> Well... honestly, I'm kinda torn. I watched the video and I don't think the cop threatened to shoot the kid just out of the blue.. he was told if he came any closer with the truck, he would shoot. I took that to mean, hit me with your vehicle and I will end you. I think that is a reasonable response. *He's obviously had some truancy issues in the past and his parents can't keep him in school *so... are they just let him come and go as he pleases? And if he does leave and is killed in a freak accident do you think the mom will sue the school for allowing her son to leave? It's a tough situation, but from what I saw I have more sympathy for the adults dealing with him than I do the kid. I will say that I agree that the F bomb may not have been the best word choice, but I have absolutely no problem with a police officer telling anyone if they come any closer with their vehicle they will be shot. I think of it as fair warning.


Where did you get that he’s obviously had truancy issues in the past and his parents can’t keep him in school?

He was leaving with an excused absence that his mother had already cleared with the school. 
Are you thinking that any kid who leaves school for an orthodontist apply should be stopped because if they get in an accident they might sue the school?


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## Lisa in WA (Oct 11, 2004)

Cornhusker said:


> 17 is not a child unless there's something wrong with him.
> Sounds like a momma's boy who was used to getting his own way
> Looks like both parties were being stupid


He may well be a spoiled little monster. And I don’t think anyone is really calling him a child. He, himself pointed out that he was old enough to leave. It’s ridiculous for these adults to block the road when the kid had an excused absence. They should have let him go and then followed up with a disciplinary procedure.
The boy looked genuinely surprised when they accused him of calling a white woman “The N word”.


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## gleepish (Mar 10, 2003)

Lisa in WA said:


> Where did you get that he’s obviously had truancy issues in the past and his parents can’t keep him in school?


Let me rephrase the statement for you *In my OPINION it is obvious that he has had truancy issues in the past. * Better? 

Why do I think that? Mainly because I recognize the attitude. Also because I don't think expulsion would be any schools answer to leaving for an orthodontist appointment. Two... if he really did have a valid reason (which I question) he would have presented the information. And three, listening to the back and forth between them all, I think that they've had run ins in the past.


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## Lisa in WA (Oct 11, 2004)

gleepish said:


> Let me rephrase the statement for you *In my OPINION it is obvious that he has had truancy issues in the past. * Better?
> 
> Why do I think that? Mainly because I recognize the attitude. Also because I don't think expulsion would be any schools answer to leaving for an orthodontist appointment. Two... if he really did have a valid reason (which I question) he would have presented the information. And three, listening to the back and forth between them all, I think that they've had run ins in the past.


Good rephrase.
They expelled him because of the confrontation. He didn’t get to leave for his appointment.
His mother, a nurse, clearly says he did have an appointment which she’d already cleared with the office.


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## gleepish (Mar 10, 2003)

Lisa in WA said:


> I think they expelled him because of the confrontation. He didn’t get to leave for his appointment.
> His mother, a nurse, clearly says he did have an appointment which she’d already cleared with the office.


You win. I'm not arguing over my opinion about a video that ultimately has no effect on me or mine. Enjoy the rest of your day.


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## Lisa in WA (Oct 11, 2004)

gleepish said:


> You win. I'm not arguing over my opinion about a video that ultimately has no effect on me or mine. Enjoy the rest of your day.


You too.


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## Cornhusker (Mar 20, 2003)

Lisa in WA said:


> He may well be a spoiled little monster. And I don’t think anyone is really calling him a child. He, himself pointed out that he was old enough to leave. It’s ridiculous for these adults to block the road when the kid had an excused absence. They should have let him go and then followed up with a disciplinary procedure.
> The boy looked genuinely surprised when they accused him of calling a while woman “The N word”.


There wasn't enough brain power in that parking lot to blow the fuzz off a peach.
If I was the cop, I would have asked him where he was going, sent him on his way and let the school know.
Hopefully, the school would call his parents and advise them he was on the loose.
I don't know how it is there, but you don't leave school without parental permission here.


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## flewism (Apr 2, 2007)

All I can say is it was stupid to block his departure with ones body. That said if he turned the trucks wheels toward me and inched forward my gun would have been drawn. 

Now why was he stopping this man-child from leaving? truancy?, just let him get expelled.


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## Lisa in WA (Oct 11, 2004)

Cornhusker said:


> There wasn't enough brain power in that parking lot to blow the fuzz off a peach.
> If I was the cop, I would have asked him where he was going, sent him on his way and let the school know.
> Hopefully, the school would call his parents and advise them he was on the loose.
> I don't know how it is there, but you don't leave school without parental permission here.


i agree. And what you’d do seems like the smartest course of action even if he was truant.
He DID have permission though. He had an orthodontist appointment. His mom had already called it in to the office.

seems kind of ironic that all this happened because they were trying to keep him in school so they went ahead and expelled him.


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## Cornhusker (Mar 20, 2003)

Lisa in WA said:


> i agree. And what you’d do seems like the smartest course of action even if he was truant.
> He DID have permission though. He had an orthodontist appointment. His mom had already called it in to the office.
> 
> seems kind of ironic that all this happened because they were trying to keep him in school so they went ahead and expelled him.


Kinda like charging someone money for being overdrawn I guess.


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## AmericanStand (Jul 29, 2014)

Lisa in WA said:


> You have to wonder.
> 
> Kind of insane that they expelled the kid. If they expelled every mouthy kid who challenges blowhards there’d be no students left in school.


True now not so true when I was a kid. 
I always wondered what was wrong in the head le of school teachers and administration when their punishment for not liking school was. to give you a few days away from school?
Oh my that was horrible may I have another please?


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## SLADE (Feb 20, 2004)

Instead of the gun being the dummy that sits in the corner, we seem inclined to pick it up and make ourselves the dummy that should sit in the corner.


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## AmericanStand (Jul 29, 2014)

flewism said:


> All I can say is it was stupid to block his departure with ones body. That said if he turned the trucks wheels toward me and inched forward my gun would have been drawn.
> 
> Now why was he stopping this man-child from leaving? truancy?, just let him get expelled.


 You try to take me hostage and draw weapon on me you better be prepared to die with that gun in your hand.


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## AmericanStand (Jul 29, 2014)

They had no right to take the kid hostage they had no right to assault him They had no right in anyway shape or form to obstruct his leaving the school grounds. 
For two so-called adults should be in prison for a period of years
I would suggest that the officer spend the rest of his life in prison and his sidekick been given half expected lifespan. 
I don’t know what the usual prison term is for kidnappers but that seems reasonable to me especially in light of the fact that the officer should more than any of us know the law.


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## flewism (Apr 2, 2007)

AmericanStand said:


> You try to take me hostage and draw weapon on me you better be prepared to die with that gun in your hand.


I believe you and would act accordingly.


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## AmericanStand (Jul 29, 2014)

And that’s the reason and armed society is a polite society


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## Witch's Broom (Dec 23, 2017)

Lisa in WA said:


> https://www.tampabay.com/news/pasco...hreatening-to-shoot-a-student-is-going-viral/
> 
> 
> Nedra Miller will be the first to tell you her 17-year-old son can act like a child and be a bit rebellious. But that’s not what she’s upset about.
> ...


I came across this article this morning and instantly thought, how long before a shooting occurs in a school or on campus grounds related to some power-tripping individual in charge of security (who never grew up).

There isn't anywhere near enough vigilante in this world as far as I'm concerned, because if there was this sort of thing would be non-existent.

Heaven help the individual if it had been my child. My husband and I would be on the 6-o'clock news.


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## Alice In TX/MO (May 10, 2002)

The young man was COMPLETELY in the right. The employees blocking him could simply have contacted the office. Geez. 

Fire the supposed adults.


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## doozie (May 21, 2005)

The student could have called his mother. The security people could have called the school office.

I think security was beyond stupid for blocking the exit in the first place. It appears they knew who they were dealing with and nothing would have come of his leaving had they actually checked into it before or after he left.

I think he's suffering more than the security people and for what, arguing?


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## muleskinner2 (Oct 7, 2007)

The title for this post is a lie. The officer did not threaten to shoot the kid for truancy, he threatened to shoot if the kid drove the truck at him. His choice of language could have been better, but he didn't break any laws. If the kid had permission to leave the school, he should of showed it to the deputy.


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## Witch's Broom (Dec 23, 2017)

muleskinner2 said:


> The title for this post is a lie. The officer did not threaten to shoot the kid for truancy, he threatened to shoot if the kid drove the truck at him. His choice of language could have been better, but he didn't break any laws. * If the kid had permission to leave the school, he should of showed it to the deputy*.


I respectfully disagree. Correct me if I'm wrong, but it's my understanding armed personal were appointed into the school system to protect students and staff, not police bathroom breaks and appointments.


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## muleskinner2 (Oct 7, 2007)

AmericanStand said:


> They had no right to take the kid hostage they had no right to assault him They had no right in anyway shape or form to obstruct his leaving the school grounds.
> For two so-called adults should be in prison for a period of years
> I would suggest that the officer spend the rest of his life in prison and his sidekick been given half expected lifespan.
> I don’t know what the usual prison term is for kidnappers but that seems reasonable to me especially in light of the fact that the officer should more than any of us know the law.


Nobody tried to take the kid hostage. He was responding to the threat of being run over by a truck. When a vehicle starts to move at him after being ordered to stop, he would of been justified in shooting the driver.


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## Lisa in WA (Oct 11, 2004)

Oh bullhockey. The officer was a drama queen. the kid turned the wheel because the cop said he had someone behind him. How was the kid supposed to get out of the way without turning the wheel and a golf cart obstructing him from the front.There is no aggression imminent in that video by the kid. Only by the cop. And he should t be dealing with high school kids.


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

Witch's Broom said:


> armed personal were appointed into the school system to protect students and staff


Evidently there was a confrontation between the female and the student before the officer was involved. The video only shows part of what happened. 

The article said the mother "notified the school *weeks* in advance". That seems strange to me.

I would have notified them a day or two before the appointment so it would be fresh in their minds. 

The student should have made the phone call instead of driving his truck towards someone.


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## muleskinner2 (Oct 7, 2007)

Witch's Broom said:


> I respectfully disagree. Correct me if I'm wrong, but it's my understanding armed personal were appointed into the school system to protect students and staff, not police bathroom breaks and appointments.


I don't know what the school policy is on truancy, or stopping students who try to leave school without permission. Armed personal are not appointed to a school. A police officer is assigned to a school to enforce the law. Without knowing what the policy is, or what the laws are in that state, I don't know if the deputy was authorized to stop the kid from leaving the property. He can defend himself, if someone is trying to run him down.


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## Lisa in WA (Oct 11, 2004)

Bearfootfarm said:


> Evidently there was a confrontation between the female and the student before the officer was involved. The video only shows part of what happened.
> 
> The article said the mother "notified the school *weeks* in advance". That seems strange to me.
> 
> ...


it was for an orthodontist appointment which ostensibly had been scheduled after the previous one.
I arranged with the school ahead of time so I didn’t forget on the day of the appointment when my daughter had one so it doesn't seem strange to me.
I imagine there was a confrontation.
What an idiot to drive a golf cart in front of a truck to stop a student.


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## Lisa in WA (Oct 11, 2004)

muleskinner2 said:


> I don't know what the school policy is on truancy, or stopping students who try to leave school without permission. Armed personal are not appointed to a school. A police officer is assigned to a school to enforce the law. Without knowing what the policy is, or what the laws are in that state, I don't know if the deputy was authorized to stop the kid from leaving the property. He can defend himself, if someone is trying to run him down.


Not sure why you’re saying that armed personnel are not assigned to a school when this one was armed and was the school resource officer.


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## muleskinner2 (Oct 7, 2007)

Alice In TX/MO said:


> The young man was COMPLETELY in the right. The employees blocking him could simply have contacted the office. Geez.
> 
> Fire the supposed adults.


A school resource officer is not an employee of the school. He is a police officer assigned to the school. If a police officer tell you to stop, you stop. Driving a vehicle at someone is the threat of deadly force. The correct response to a threat of deadly force, is the use of, or threat of deadly force.


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## muleskinner2 (Oct 7, 2007)

Lisa in WA said:


> Not sure why you’re saying that armed personnel are not assigned to a school when this one was armed and was the school resource officer.


I didn't say he wasn't assigned to the school, I said he wasn't appointed to the school. A school resource officer does not work for the school. He is a police officer assigned to the school.

And we don't know what the policy is regarding students leaving school grounds. If the officer was supposed to stop students, and verify if they have permission, then he was doing his job.


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## Lisa in WA (Oct 11, 2004)

muleskinner2 said:


> A school resource officer is not an employee of the school. He is a police officer assigned to the school. If a police officer tell you to stop, you stop. Driving a vehicle at someone is the threat of deadly force. The correct response to a threat of deadly force, is the use of, or threat of deadly force.


The kid did not drive a vehicle at him.


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## Lisa in WA (Oct 11, 2004)

muleskinner2 said:


> I didn't say he wasn't assigned to the school, I said he wasn't appointed to the school. A school resource officer does not work for the school. He is a police officer assigned to the school.


what difference does it make in this context?
Why would a cop be “appointed” to a school?


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

Lisa in WA said:


> I arranged with the school ahead of time so I didn’t forget on the day of the appointment when my daughter had one so it doesn't seem strange to me.


I would have done it "ahead of time", but not "weeks" ahead.


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## muleskinner2 (Oct 7, 2007)

Lisa in WA said:


> The kid did not drive a vehicle at him.


And the officer did not shoot him.


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## muleskinner2 (Oct 7, 2007)

Lisa in WA said:


> what difference does it make in this context?
> Why would a cop be “appointed” to a school?


I don't know, but you said it in your post. You said armed personnel were appointed to the school.


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## Witch's Broom (Dec 23, 2017)

Lisa in WA said:


> Oh bullhockey. The officer was a drama queen. the kid turned the wheel because the cop said he had someone behind him. How was the kid supposed to get out of the way without turning the wheel. There is no aggression imminent in that video by the kid. Only by the cop.


Well said.

It's stupefying to think there are imbeciles who walk among us who are so empty-headed, they place themselves in harms-way over something as petty as a student with authorized leave (trying to leave), and then when they feel their life is in danger, threaten to use deadly force.


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## Lisa in WA (Oct 11, 2004)

muleskinner2 said:


> I don't know, but you said it in your post. You said armed personnel were appointed to the school.


No I didn’t.


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## muleskinner2 (Oct 7, 2007)

Witch's Broom said:


> they place themselves in harms-way over something as petty as a student with authorized leave (trying to leave), and then when they feel their life is in danger, threaten to use deadly force.


Even if it is their job to check if the student has permission to leave school property? And if you feel that your life is in danger, the threat of, or use of deadly force is the appropriate response.


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## muleskinner2 (Oct 7, 2007)

Lisa in WA said:


> No I didn’t.


Sorry, replying faster than I am reading. Witch's Broom said it.


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## Witch's Broom (Dec 23, 2017)

Bearfootfarm said:


> Evidently there was a confrontation between the female and the student before the officer was involved. The video only shows part of what happened.
> 
> The article said the mother "notified the school *weeks* in advance". That seems strange to me.
> 
> ...


I respectfully disagree. The security officer in question should have been doing his job, walking the grounds and hallways of the institution, not acting like the witless bully as he was.


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

Witch's Broom said:


> The security officer in question should have been *doing his job*, walking the grounds and hallways of the institution, not acting like the witless bully as he was.


He was doing his job if the staff member reported a problem and asked for help.


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## muleskinner2 (Oct 7, 2007)

Witch's Broom said:


> I respectfully disagree. The security officer in question should have been doing his job, walking the grounds and hallways of the institution, not acting like the witless bully as he was.


He is not a security officer, he is a deputy sheriff assigned to the school to enforce the law. And that means enforcing truancy law. If the deputy suspected that the student was leaving without permission, he was acting in accordance with the law to stop the student and determine if a law was being broken.


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## Witch's Broom (Dec 23, 2017)

muleskinner2 said:


> Even if it is their job to check if the student has permission to leave school property? And if you feel that your life is in danger, the threat of, or use of deadly force is the correct response.


Quote from article.

*"resource officer employed by the Pasco County Sheriff’s Office and a school discipline assistant told him he couldn’t leave the campus in New Port Richey, Fla., on the morning of Dec. 17, or he’d be classified as truant and suspended"
*
The end. You don't need a gun for that, and you most definitely don't need to display your low IQ by driving a golf-cart in front of a full-sized pickup truck to further escalate the matter.


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## Witch's Broom (Dec 23, 2017)

Bearfootfarm said:


> He was doing his job if the staff member reported a problem and asked for help.


I respectfully disagree.

*"resource officer employed by the Pasco County Sheriff’s Office and a school discipline assistant told him he couldn’t leave the campus in New Port Richey, Fla., on the morning of Dec. 17, or he’d be classified as truant and suspended"
*
Once communication between the school discipline assistant and the student in question was complete, the matter should have been brought to a close. The end.


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## Witch's Broom (Dec 23, 2017)

muleskinner2 said:


> The title for this post is a lie. The officer did not threaten to shoot the kid for truancy, he threatened to shoot if the kid drove the truck at him. His choice of language could have been better, but he didn't break any laws. If the kid had permission to leave the school, he should of showed it to the deputy.


I respectfully disagree. If the school discipline assistant had been doing his or her job, there wouldn't have been any need to address the student in question. The end.

No need for a discussion, no need for threats of truancy, and for surely no need for armed personnel.


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## Witch's Broom (Dec 23, 2017)

doozie said:


> The student could have called his mother.


I respectfully disagree. We're not talking about daycare or playschool here.

Bottom line, we live in one real messed up society today.


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## muleskinner2 (Oct 7, 2007)

Witch's Broom said:


> Quote from article.
> 
> *"resource officer employed by the Pasco County Sheriff’s Office and a school discipline assistant told him he couldn’t leave the campus in New Port Richey, Fla., on the morning of Dec. 17, or he’d be classified as truant and suspended"
> *
> The end. You don't need a gun for that, and you most definitely don't need to display your low IQ by driving a golf-cart in front of a full-sized pickup truck to further escalate the matter.


Police officers investigate crimes, truancy is a crime. In the course of investigating a crime it is sometimes necessary to question a suspect. Often, in order to question a suspect you must stop him. In this case he stopped him by pulling the golf cart in front of the truck.

If a police officer tells you to stop, he is giving you a lawful order. If you choose not to follow the lawful order, and attempt to leave. The officer has the authority to enforce the lawful order. If the officer believes his life is in danger, he may threaten the use of deadly force, and if necessary use deadly force.

The officer had no way of knowing if the suspect had permission to leave the school grounds. If the kid did in fact have permission to leave, he should have shown the officer the permission slip. 

The officer could of handled this better, but he didn't break any laws. If he violated department policy, then that is between him and the Sheriff.


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## Witch's Broom (Dec 23, 2017)

muleskinner2 said:


> Police officers investigate crimes. In the course of investigating a crime it is sometimes necessary to question a suspect. Often, in order to question a suspect you must stop him. In this case he stopped him by pulling the golf cart in front of the truck.
> 
> If a police officer tells you to stop, he is giving you a lawful order. If you choose not to follow the lawful order, and attempt to leave. The officer has the authority to enforce the lawful order. If the officer believes his life is in danger, he may threaten the use of deadly force, and if necessary use deadly force.
> 
> ...


As I mentioned earlier, there isn't enough vigilante in society today, because if there was, it would keep scum like this in check.


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## muleskinner2 (Oct 7, 2007)

Witch's Broom said:


> Bottom line, we live in one real messed up society today.


Yep.


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## muleskinner2 (Oct 7, 2007)

Witch's Broom said:


> As I mentioned earlier, there isn't enough vigilante in society today, because if there was, it would keep scum like this in check.


Just to be clear. A police officer investigating a potential crime, giving a lawful order, and then responding to a potential threat to his life. makes him scum. Just checking.


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## Witch's Broom (Dec 23, 2017)

muleskinner2 said:


> Just to be clear. A police officer investigating a potential crime, giving a lawful order, and then responding to a potential threat to his life. *makes him scum*. Just checking.


As far as I'm concerned, _it does (less than in fact)_. Sixteen (16) seconds in, and the individual in question is threatening lethal force? For truancy? Give me a break.


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## Lisa in WA (Oct 11, 2004)

[QUOTE="muleskinner2, post: 8556864, member: 27628"*]Police officers investigate crimes, truancy is a crime.* In the course of investigating a crime it is sometimes necessary to question a suspect. Often, in order to question a suspect you must stop him. In this case he stopped him by pulling the golf cart in front of the truck.

If a police officer tells you to stop, he is giving you a lawful order. If you choose not to follow the lawful order, and attempt to leave. The officer has the authority to enforce the lawful order. If the officer believes his life is in danger, he may threaten the use of deadly force, and if necessary use deadly force.

The officer had no way of knowing if the suspect had permission to leave the school grounds. If the kid did in fact have permission to leave, he should have shown the officer the permission slip.

The officer could of handled this better, but he didn't break any laws. If he violated department policy, then that is between him and the Sheriff.[/QUOTE]

*truancy is NOT a crime*.


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## doozie (May 21, 2005)

Witch's Broom said:


> I respectfully disagree. We're not talking about daycare or playschool here.
> 
> Bottom line, we live in one real messed up society today.


He was told he could have called his parents on the video, if he were my son I would question why he didn't, School policy? I don't know.
He was also asked where he was going, but chose not to answer.
He's old enough to know how to answer simple questions.

The reaction of the cop and school was still over the top.


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## Witch's Broom (Dec 23, 2017)

doozie said:


> He was told he could have called his parents on the video, if he were my son I would question why he didn't, School policy? I don't know.
> He was also asked where he was going, but chose not to answer.
> He's old enough to know how to answer simple questions.
> 
> *The reaction of the cop and school was still over the top*.


100% agree!

As for the students actions or inactions, he's a kid. Kids will be kids, and some take longer than others to mature and come around.


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## Lisa in WA (Oct 11, 2004)

That boy wasn t even actually truant even if he didn’t have an excused absence.
Under Section 1003.26 of the Florida State Statute, truancy is defined as a juvenile offense that can be charged to anyone under the age of *16* who fails to attend school on a regular basis.
William Miller is 17.


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## muleskinner2 (Oct 7, 2007)

Witch's Broom said:


> As far as I'm concerned, _it does_. Sixteen (16) seconds in, and the individual in question is threatening lethal force? For truancy? Give me a break.


Have you ever gone into harms way? Where the difference between living or dying, is measured in tenths of a second? The officer doesn't have the luxury of quarterbacking from a distance. We are looking at this after the fact. We can quarterback this from distance and safety. For a tenth of a second he believed his life was in danger. He should probably work on his communication skills, but his instincts are good.


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## Lisa in WA (Oct 11, 2004)

I predict a large law suit against the school district and repercussions for the sheriffs office.


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## muleskinner2 (Oct 7, 2007)

Lisa in WA said:


> That boy wasn t even actually truant even if he didn’t have an excused absence.
> Under Section 1003.26 of the Florida State Statute, truancy is defined as a juvenile offense that can be charged to anyone under the age of *16* who fails to attend school on a regular basis.
> William Miller is 17.


Unless his age is tattooed on his forehead the officer had no way of knowing that. Hence the lawful stop, and questions.


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## muleskinner2 (Oct 7, 2007)

Lisa in WA said:


> I predict a large law suit against the school district and repercussions for the sheriffs office.


For what? The officer stopped a suspect, in order to investigate a possible crime. Then responded lawfully to a potential threat.


----------



## Lisa in WA (Oct 11, 2004)

muleskinner2 said:


> Unless his age is tattooed on his forehead the officer had no way of knowing that. Hence the lawful stop, and questions.


He is the school resource officer. He knew the boys name and he should have found out before blatting off at the mouth like an adolescent. 
he behaved abominably and should not permitted on “his” campus again or any other.


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## Lisa in WA (Oct 11, 2004)

muleskinner2 said:


> For what? The officer stopped a suspect, in order to investigate a possible crime. Then responded lawfully to a potential threat.


Please show me the statute where truancy is a crime for a minor.

There is no reason to forcibly detain a student and prevent him from leaving the school grounds. That’s not what the truancy laws state.


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## Witch's Broom (Dec 23, 2017)

muleskinner2 said:


> Have you ever gone into harms way? Where the difference between living or dying, is measured in tenths of a second? The officer doesn't have the luxury of quarterbacking from a distance. We are looking at this after the fact. We can quarterback this from distance and safety. For a tenth of a second he believed his life was in danger. *He should probably work on his communication skills, but his instincts are good*.


I respectfully disagree. There isn't a single stitch of good IMO that I would pin on the officer in question.

He should be stripped of every ounce of worth (dignity included), then kicked out into the street to deal with the fallout (empty-handed). I'd buy front-row seats to watch the father of the boy in question hand-out a good old-fashioned proper licking to the officer to purge him of his cocksure swagger.


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## muleskinner2 (Oct 7, 2007)

Lisa in WA said:


> [QUOTE="muleskinner2, post: 8556864, member: 27628"*]Police officers investigate crimes, truancy is a crime.* In the course of investigating a crime it is sometimes necessary to question a suspect. Often, in order to question a suspect you must stop him. In this case he stopped him by pulling the golf cart in front of the truck.
> 
> If a police officer tells you to stop, he is giving you a lawful order. If you choose not to follow the lawful order, and attempt to leave. The officer has the authority to enforce the lawful order. If the officer believes his life is in danger, he may threaten the use of deadly force, and if necessary use deadly force.
> 
> ...


*truancy is NOT a crime*.[/QUOTE]

Truancy is a class three misdemeanor, for which you can be sited or arrested. I don't have a statute book in front of me right now. But I have written the citations and arrested truant students. Parents can also be sited and arrested for not making their kids go to school.


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## AmericanStand (Jul 29, 2014)

muleskinner2 said:


> For what? The officer stopped a suspect, in order to investigate a possible crime. Then responded lawfully to a potential threat.


 Generally speaking I have had a lot of respect for your opinions regarding cops in law in the past.
(yeah I know you’ll find that hard to believe)
But in this case it was pretty clear that there was an ego driven cop bent on making children crawl and show him respect on his campus. 
as far as I can tail this cop had no authority at all over this kid except that he wanted to and he was going to enforce it with a gun
The cop put himself in the way of harm so that he could pull a weapon on the kid
I don’t know what you define as kidnapping or a hostage but when you can find me to someplace I don’t want to be and you will not let me leave that place under threat of a weapon I think that pretty well qualifies as kidnapping ,hostage something, illegal confinement?


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## muleskinner2 (Oct 7, 2007)

Lisa in WA said:


> Please show me the statute where truancy is a crime for a minor.
> 
> There is no reason to forcibly detain a student and prevent him from leaving the school grounds. That’s not what the truancy laws state.


He didn't detain the student. He stopped him to investigate a possible crime.


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## AmericanStand (Jul 29, 2014)

He looked pretty Detained to me


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## muleskinner2 (Oct 7, 2007)

AmericanStand said:


> Generally speaking I have had a lot of respect for your opinions regarding cops in law in the past.
> (yeah I know you’ll find that hard to believe)
> But in this case it was pretty clear that there was an ego driven cop bent on making children crawl and show him respect on his campus.
> as far as I can tail this cop had no authority at all over this kid except that he wanted to and he was going to enforce it with a gun
> ...


It all looks bad after the fact. But the officer did have the authority to stop and question the kid. If he felt his life was in danger he was justified in the threat of deadly force. When the kid complied, the officer did not use deadly force. It is better to be safe than sorry. Having said all that, I know from personal experience that being a School Resource Officer is not a coveted position. Nobody wants the job. So they don't always give it to the sharpest tack in the box.


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## Witch's Broom (Dec 23, 2017)

muleskinner2 said:


> *truancy is NOT a crime*.
> 
> *Truancy is a class three misdemeanor, for which you can be sited or arrested*. I don't have a statute book in front of me right now. But I have written the citations and arrested truant students. Parents can also be sited and arrested for not making their kids go to school.


Best ensure you have your records straight before you start arresting. Last time I checked, you actually have to be guilty of breaking the law (first) to be lawfully arrested.


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## muleskinner2 (Oct 7, 2007)

Witch's Broom said:


> *Truancy is a class three misdemeanor, for which you can be sited or arrested*. I don't have a statute book in front of me right now. But I have written the citations and arrested truant students. Parents can also be sited and arrested for not making their kids go to school.


Best ensure you have your records straight before you start arresting. Last time I checked, you actually have to be guilty of breaking the law (first) to be lawfully arrested.[/QUOTE]

What are you smoking? So, you can't arrest a suspect, until after he has been tried and found guilty?


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## Witch's Broom (Dec 23, 2017)

muleskinner2 said:


> He didn't detain the student. He stopped him to investigate a possible crime.


Boy, is our world ever in trouble.


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## muleskinner2 (Oct 7, 2007)

AmericanStand said:


> He looked pretty Detained to me


I have often questioned that myself. But the lawyers tell us they aren't detained until you tell them they can't leave or actually make an arrest.


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## muleskinner2 (Oct 7, 2007)

Witch's Broom said:


> Boy, is our world ever in trouble.


So, a officer acting upon what he believed to be credible information, from the woman who works for the school can't stop and investigate?


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## Lisa in WA (Oct 11, 2004)

muleskinner2 said:


> I have often questioned that myself. But the lawyers tell us they aren't detained until you tell them they can't leave or actually make an arrest.


he not only told him he couldnt leave but he physically stopped him from leaving.


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## D-BOONE (Feb 9, 2016)

attitudes like this cop is why cops get shot . Just another one with a God complex just because he has a badge.


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## muleskinner2 (Oct 7, 2007)

I went back and watched the video again. The officer dropped the F bomb twice, and told the kid that if he drove toward him he would be shot. He didn't pull his gun, but I don't think he knew about the kid being old enough to leave. Could have been handled better, but no laws were broken.


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## Witch's Broom (Dec 23, 2017)

muleskinner2 said:


> Best ensure you have your records straight before you start arresting. Last time I checked, you actually have to be guilty of breaking the law (first) to be lawfully arrested.
> 
> What are you smoking? So, you can't arrest a suspect, until after he has been tried and found guilty?


Oh, come now, surely we're not going to get into this sort of child's play are we?


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## muleskinner2 (Oct 7, 2007)

Lisa in WA said:


> he not only told him he couldnt leave but he physically stopped him from leaving.


Yes he did.


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## Witch's Broom (Dec 23, 2017)

muleskinner2 said:


> I went back and watched the video again. *The officer dropped the F bomb twice*, and told the kid that if he drove toward him he would be shot. He didn't pull his gun, but I don't think he knew about the kid being old enough to leave. Could have been handled better, but no laws were broken.


It's well known using expletives to express oneself is a sign of a low IQ and lack of education.


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## muleskinner2 (Oct 7, 2007)

Witch's Broom said:


> Oh, come now, surely we're not going to get into this sort of child's play are we?


I am sorry, but you did bring it up. That a officer can't make a lawful arrest, until after a suspect has been found guilty.


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## Witch's Broom (Dec 23, 2017)

muleskinner2 said:


> So, a officer acting upon what he believed to be credible information, from the woman who works for the school can't stop and investigate?


What credible information is that? Communication made directly to the school by the mother of the child (prior to, well in advance of the boys absence)?


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## Lisa in WA (Oct 11, 2004)

muleskinner2 said:


> Yes he did.


yeah. So he was detained.


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## muleskinner2 (Oct 7, 2007)

Witch's Broom said:


> It's well known using expletives to express oneself is a sign of a low IQ and lack of education.


I have heard that. But in my experience what is "well known", is often wrong.


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## muleskinner2 (Oct 7, 2007)

Witch's Broom said:


> What credible information is that? Communication made directly to the school by the mother of the child (prior to, well in advance of the boys absence)?


From the woman telling the officer, which you can hear in the video, that the kid is truant. It turns out that the kid did have permission to leave, actually he wasn't supposed to be at school at all on that day. But the officer was acting off what the school employee told him. 

When I was a Deputy the batteries for my crystal ball would sometimes run down. And I sometimes didn't know what somebody did or did not tell somebody, in a conversation I had no way of even knowing about.


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## muleskinner2 (Oct 7, 2007)

Lisa in WA said:


> yeah. So he was detained.


Yes he was. And he refused to call his parents and verify the permission to leave for the day. So the officer, not having his crystal ball with him, thought the kid was truant. Because the lady who worked for the school told him he was.


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## Witch's Broom (Dec 23, 2017)

muleskinner2 said:


> From the woman telling the officer, which you can hear in the video, that the kid is truant. It turns out that the kid did have permission to leave, actually he wasn't supposed to be at school at all on that day. But the officer was acting off what the school employee told him.
> 
> When I was a Deputy the batteries for my crystal ball would sometimes run down. And I sometimes didn't know what somebody did or did not tell somebody, in a conversation I had no way of even knowing about.


I understand what you are saying, however, low battery levels and crystal balls aside, we're talking about a nincompoop with a gun.


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## Alice In TX/MO (May 10, 2002)

In my experience, the term Resource Officer doesn’t require the employee to be a trained law enforcement officer.

I am curious as to the training, credentials, and experience of the “deputy.”


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## Lisa in WA (Oct 11, 2004)

muleskinner2 said:


> Yes he was. And he refused to call his parents and verify the permission to leave for the day. So the officer, not having his crystal ball with him, thought the kid was truant. Because the lady who worked for the school told him he was.


none of which justifies his behavior or attitude, not to mention that if the kid actually was truant, that still makes his behavior wrong. He wasn’t following any law, he was following his bloated ego.
“This is MY campus, brother”.
What an ar$e.


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## muleskinner2 (Oct 7, 2007)

Witch's Broom said:


> I understand what you are saying, however, low battery levels and crystal balls aside, we're talking about a nincompoop with a gun.


Yes, police officers carry guns. This officer did not pull or threaten the kid with a gun.


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## Lisa in WA (Oct 11, 2004)

muleskinner2 said:


> Yes. police officers carry guns. This officer did not pull or threaten the kid with a gun.


He certainly did threaten him with a gun.
He told him he’d shoot him.

You can argue all you like, but lawyers will be involved now and most likely both adults will lose their jobs.


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## muleskinner2 (Oct 7, 2007)

Alice In TX/MO said:


> In my experience, the term Resource Officer doesn’t require the employee to be a trained law enforcement officer.
> 
> I am curious as to the training, credentials, and experience of the “deputy.”


I can only speak from personal experience, but every school resource officer I have known was a sworn peace officer.


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## muleskinner2 (Oct 7, 2007)

Lisa in WA said:


> He certainly did threaten him with a gun.
> He told him he’d shoot him.
> 
> You can argue all you like, but lawyers will be involved now and most likely both adults will loose their jobs.


He told him, that if he drove toward him with the truck he would shoot him. He did not pull or display his weapon. Not a threat, he simply told him what would happen.


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## Witch's Broom (Dec 23, 2017)

Alice In TX/MO said:


> In my experience, the term Resource Officer doesn’t require the employee to be a trained law enforcement officer.
> 
> I am curious as to the training, credentials, and experience of the “deputy.”


Excellent point, Alice.

If I were to say, _not much, _would that be overly pointed of me? Snicker-snicker...


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## Witch's Broom (Dec 23, 2017)

Lisa in WA said:


> none of which justifies his behavior or attitude, not to mention that if the kid actually was truant, that still makes his behavior wrong. He wasn’t following any law, he was following his bloated ego.
> “This is MY campus, brother”.
> What an ar$e.


I couldn't have said it any better my girl!


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## muleskinner2 (Oct 7, 2007)

Lisa in WA said:


> “This is MY campus, brother”.


So, a figure of speech makes him a ...? Hardly enough to get fired over. However I have seen people fired for less.

The kid acted like a punk, the officer was rude, and the lady who works for the school didn't know the kid had permission. Nobody got hurt, and nobody went to jail. Just another day at the office.


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## Lisa in WA (Oct 11, 2004)

muleskinner2 said:


> He told him, that if he drove toward him with the truck he would shoot him. He did not pull or display his weapon. Not a threat, he simply told him what would happen.


yeah, dude. That is a threat. 
If the kid told him if he didn’t let him go he’d run him over I’ll bet you’d be howling about him threatening an LEO.


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## Witch's Broom (Dec 23, 2017)

muleskinner2 said:


> So, a figure of speech makes him a ...? Hardly enough to get fired over. However I have seen people fired for less.


If my guess is right, they'll be a WHOLE lot of people looking for less.


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## muleskinner2 (Oct 7, 2007)

Lisa in WA said:


> He certainly did threaten him with a gun.
> He told him he’d shoot him.


No he didn't. I have threatened people with a gun, and it doesn't look anything like this did.


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## Witch's Broom (Dec 23, 2017)

muleskinner2 said:


> No he didn't. I have threatened people with a gun, and it doesn't look anything like this did.


You must have went to the same school of training that the officer in question in the video went to?


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## muleskinner2 (Oct 7, 2007)

Lisa in WA said:


> yeah, dude. That is a threat.
> If the kid told him if he didn’t let him go he’d run him over I’ll bet you’d be howling about him threatening an LEO.


If you are sitting in a running vehicle with your foot on the gas, and tell someone that you are going to run them over, that would be a threat. If you are holding a radio in your hand and tell someone if they drive their vehicle at you, you would shoot them, that is a warning.


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## Lisa in WA (Oct 11, 2004)

Bottom line is. Neither one of the adults in the situation had the right to forcibly detain him unless they had reason to suspect a crime, which they crtainky never mentioned. Truancy is not a crime and while the boy could have behaved a whole lot better, as his mother said, they adults were WAY out of line.

I have no beef against the police. I am fervently grateful for their services, but yahoos like this do no good to the reputations of police in general.


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## muleskinner2 (Oct 7, 2007)

Witch's Broom said:


> You must have went to the same school of training that the officer in question in the video went to?


Not the exact one, but one very much like the one he did. He was rude, but he wasn't wrong.


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## Lisa in WA (Oct 11, 2004)

muleskinner2 said:


> If you are sitting in a running vehicle with your foot on the gas, and tell someone that you are going to run them over, that would be a threat. If you are holding a radio in your hand and tell someone if they drive their vehicle at you, you would shoot them, that is a warning.


No, if you have a gun on your belt, and tell someone you’ll shoot them, that is (by any definition, legal or otherwise)...a threat.


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## Witch's Broom (Dec 23, 2017)

muleskinner2 said:


> If you are sitting in a running vehicle with your foot on the gas, and tell someone that you are going to run them over, that would be a threat. If you are holding a radio in your hand and tell someone if they drive their vehicle at you, you would shoot them, that is a warning.


Anyone in possession of a firearm uttering deadly threats to others, regardless of whether they have their weapon drawn, particularly in a circumstance as this, where the case in question is petty, should be publicly flogged until they have no tissue left on their bones from the waist-down.


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## muleskinner2 (Oct 7, 2007)

Lisa in WA said:


> No, if you have a gun on your belt, and tell someone you’ll shoot them, that is (by any definition, legal or otherwise)...a threat.


No, it isn't. In his own street wise way, he was explaining to the little wannabe gang banger, what would happen if he drove his tuck at him.

I have to go feed my horses now. So I don't have time to chat with you girls any more. (Now, that was rude.)


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## Lisa in WA (Oct 11, 2004)

muleskinner2 said:


> No, it isn't. In his own street wise way, he was explaining to the little wannabe gang banger, what would happen if he drove his tuck at him.
> 
> I have to go feed my horses now. So I don't have time to chat with you girls any more. (Now, that was rude.)



Your condescension doesn’t even register with me. 
The cop was the only one talking like a wannabe gangbanger. I didn’t hear the kid cuss at all. 
i doubt that dipstick has any street smarts at all.


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## Alice In TX/MO (May 10, 2002)

I am looking forward to a follow up news story.


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## Witch's Broom (Dec 23, 2017)

muleskinner2 said:


> So, a figure of speech makes him a ...? Hardly enough to get fired over. However I have seen people fired for less.
> 
> The kid acted like a punk, the officer was rude, and the lady who works for the school didn't know the kid had permission. Nobody got hurt, and nobody went to jail. Just another day at the office.


I view your stance regarding this case as being incredibly dangerous and careless, not to mention it lacks any and all common sense towards right and wrong.

It's not just another day in the office, but more importantly, I'm hoping it's the officers _LAST_ day in office (forever).


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## SLFarmMI (Feb 21, 2013)

Witch's Broom said:


> It's well known using expletives to express oneself is a sign of a low IQ and lack of education.


Studies (yes, there have been studies on this) do not support that statement. Several, in fact, support exactly the opposite.


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## Witch's Broom (Dec 23, 2017)

SLFarmMI said:


> Studies (yes, there have been studies on this) do not support that statement. Several, in fact, support exactly the opposite.


Well, I'm running with the study that suggests individuals who use expletives lack high IQ's and education, because in my books, foul-mouthed conversation strikes me as being the lowest of low, just cheap, trashy talk. Not a thing sounds educated about it to me.


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## Lisa in WA (Oct 11, 2004)

SLFarmMI said:


> Studies (yes, there have been studies on this) do not support that statement. Several, in fact, support exactly the opposite.


out of all posted here, THIS is what you’re going to argue about?


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## SLFarmMI (Feb 21, 2013)

Witch's Broom said:


> Well, I'm running with the study that suggests individuals who use expletives lack high IQ's and education, because in my books, foul-mouthed conversation strikes me as being the lowest of low, just cheap, trashy talk. Not a thing sounds educated about it to me.


I understand your opinion but the current science suggests that those who use profanity actually have larger overall vocabularies than those who do not use it.


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## Witch's Broom (Dec 23, 2017)

Bearfootfarm said:


> Evidently there was a confrontation between the female and the student before the officer was involved. The video only shows part of what happened.
> 
> *The article said the mother "notified the school weeks in advance". That seems strange to me.*
> 
> ...


Didn't strike me as being strange at all, but rather, a reflection of a mother bent on integrity. Future planning, not leaving things until the last minute, now that's what I call good parenting.


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## SLFarmMI (Feb 21, 2013)

Lisa in WA said:


> out of all posted here, THIS is what you’re going to argue about?


Not arguing about it. Just making a statement of fact.

None of the parties in the video were on their A game. Had it been me, I would have radioed the office and request they call the kid’s mother and verify the absence. Problem would have been solved in less than a minute.


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## Witch's Broom (Dec 23, 2017)

SLFarmMI said:


> I understand your opinion but the current science suggests that those who use profanity actually have larger overall vocabularies than those who do not use it.


You have obviously never experienced the conversation of Jordan Peterson, Canadian Professor of Psychology. Absolutely brilliant, and he doesn't use a single expletive to talk literal circles around those foolish enough to challenge him.


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

Witch's Broom said:


> *Once communication* between the school discipline assistant and the student in question *was complete*, the matter should have been brought to a close.


It wasn't "complete" as witnessed by the video.
He helped bring it to a "close".


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## Witch's Broom (Dec 23, 2017)

Lisa in WA said:


> I predict a large law suit against the school district and repercussions for the sheriffs office.


My fingers will remain crossed in hopes of such!

I hope heads-roll!


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## AmericanStand (Jul 29, 2014)

What does the deputy have in his hand ?
When Miller try’s to go around him he says he will get shot if he runs into him. 
So a cop has the right to shoot you if you bump him while he trys to get in the way while you attempt to maneuver around him ?
Then he started telling the kid how to turn his wheel so that he couldn’t maneuver around him. 
Problem is he is probably technically correct while everyone can see him being a poo
Why can’t these servants learn to show their masters some respect ?
What’s wrong in their heads that they get it backwards ?
I suspect it’s the attitude “ I AM the LAW “


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## Danaus29 (Sep 12, 2005)

IMO, the deputy and school employee went overboard. Keeping the kid from leaving is unlawful detention since he was not committing a crime. They should have let him leave and verified his excuse later. The woman should be charged with filing a false report for telling the deputy the kid was truant.

Btw, people have stepped in front of cars and shot drivers before, in cases of car theft. In every one of those that I have seen, it was ruled that it was not self defense since the shooter put themself in danger.


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## AmericanStand (Jul 29, 2014)

I think this shows a systems failure.
Mule skinner who has shown himself to be a reasonable cop Firmly believes that resource cop was doing the right thing. 
I believe that is a result of both his experience and his training perhaps more heavily weighted towards his training
Yet a lot of people on this site see what the resource cop did as wrong or at least a failure. 
What that tells me is that police training is not satisfactory to the general population.
Can’t blame that on the cop. 
It’s not unheard of for a cop to make a example of a regular citizen to get the results they want. I’m sure you’ve seen it ,the one speeder pulled out of the line of 20 cars slows everybody down. 
In this case I would do the same I don’t believe that either person was doing what they thought was best for the kid involved. I don’t believe they were treating him with respect or dignity
Things they could’ve done within the law and within their training
So let’s fire them take away any benefits or rights they might have accrued and give them at least a couple years in jail. 
And hopefully that will send a message back up the chain of command the training needs to be changed.


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## gilberte (Sep 25, 2004)

muleskinner2 said:


> Police officers investigate crimes, truancy is a crime. In the course of investigating a crime it is sometimes necessary to question a suspect. Often, in order to question a suspect you must stop him. In this case he stopped him by pulling the golf cart in front of the truck.
> 
> If a police officer tells you to stop, he is giving you a lawful order. If you choose not to follow the lawful order, and attempt to leave. The officer has the authority to enforce the lawful order. If the officer believes his life is in danger, he may threaten the use of deadly force, and if necessary use deadly force.
> 
> ...


 Probably should have dropped the mike and walked off stage with this one brother. I really don't care for these videos which start after the beginning of the incident. From what I saw the officer definitely could have handled this better and I suspect that in the very least he will be looking at some discipline and retraining.


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

Witch's Broom said:


> It's well known using expletives to express oneself is a sign of a low IQ and lack of education.


Actually, no, it is not.

*Swearing Is Actually a Sign of More Intelligence - Not Less - Say Scientists*

https://www.sciencealert.com/swearing-is-a-sign-of-more-intelligence-not-less-say-scientists


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## GTX63 (Dec 13, 2016)

Well Land a Goshen!


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

That sure blew up, with reactions ranging from flogging one to death, to a person trying to explain why threatening an officer might lead to bad results.

The cop reacted emotionally, but was well within legal bounds. The kid's lack of respect for the law, and his sense of entitlement, shows why so many kids do get shot.


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## AmericanStand (Jul 29, 2014)

HDRider said:


> Actually, no, it is not.
> 
> *Swearing Is Actually a Sign of More Intelligence - Not Less - Say Scientists*
> 
> https://www.sciencealert.com/swearing-is-a-sign-of-more-intelligence-not-less-say-scientists



Fake news the scientists were biased because they swear.


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## Witch's Broom (Dec 23, 2017)

AmericanStand said:


> Fake news the scientists were biased because they swear.


Although the forum provides a "LIKE" feature, there should be a "LOVE" feature, because this is so good!


----------



## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

Witch's Broom said:


> there should be a "LOVE" feature


That's reserved for the Dark Room.


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

AmericanStand said:


> Fake news the scientists were biased because they swear.


Find a scientific study that backs up your opinion.


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

HDRider said:


> Find a scientific study that backs up your opinion.


War Games


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

Bearfootfarm said:


> War Games


Stupid games


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## Alice In TX/MO (May 10, 2002)

Tiresome. Yes, I know I can block or whatever it is, but geez guys. On occasion y'all say something interesting.


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

Alice In TX/MO said:


> Tiresome. Yes, I know I can block or whatever it is, but geez guys. On occasion y'all say something interesting.


I am ONLY here to keep you entertained.


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## Alice In TX/MO (May 10, 2002)

Okey Dokey


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## D-BOONE (Feb 9, 2016)

Had that been me I would have dialed 911 told them "theres some psycho threatening to shoot students in the parking lot of ..........." with all the different agencies responding one of them would have told the officer he was wrong.Truancy is not a detainable offense . 
The so called officer is Guilty of unlawful detainment with threat of deadly force.


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## Shrek (May 1, 2002)

gleepish said:


> Well... honestly, I'm kinda torn. I watched the video and I don't think the cop threatened to shoot the kid just out of the blue.. he was told if he came any closer with the truck, he would shoot. I took that to mean, hit me with your vehicle and I will end you. I think that is a reasonable response. He's obviously had some truancy issues in the past and his parents can't keep him in school so... are they just let him come and go as he pleases? And if he does leave and is killed in a freak accident do you think the mom will sue the school for allowing her son to leave? It's a tough situation, but from what I saw I have more sympathy for the adults dealing with him than I do the kid. I will say that I agree that the F bomb may not have been the best word choice, but I have absolutely no problem with a police officer telling anyone if they come any closer with their vehicle they will be shot. I think of it as fair warning.


You have a valid point about the vehicle as a weapon possibility. A couple years ago a 15 year old runaway stole a Mustang and started a pursuit that covered 2 counties and four or five police jurisdictions before the pursuing officers got the Mustang surrounded and corral stopped. 

As the police got on foot to take the kid into custody and turn off the Mustang engine and put it in park, he rammed two or three cops pinning one against a cruiser at his waist.

His choice to not follow instructions after the pursuit ended, resulted in his death as the police shot him and shut down the Mustang after he rammed the officers, critically injuring the one.

During the investigation and body cam and dash cam review, it was found they gave him almost a dozen chances to surrender before he chose to use the car as a lethal weapon and the cop trying to crawl into the car from the passenger side window to shut it down had to shoot him as he ran down the other cops on foot trying to close in.

The autopsy results showed that even being tazed, the kid was still able to ram the cops on foot.

While sad when lethal force has to be used, folks often forget that a vehicle can be a 2000 pound guided missile as lethal or more so than a gunshot .


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## [email protected] (Sep 16, 2009)

technically , the kid was still on school property. how could he be truant ?
the cop was under the impression that the kid was truant. so how does he justify shooting ?
If a citizen blocks another's ability to go on about their merry way, it is kidnapping. look it up..
the cop threatening to shoot is a threat. even though his gun was not out of it's holster. 
if you doubt this, just walk up to any cop on the street and tell him you are going to shoot him..I dare you..
or walk up to a secret service agent and tell him you are going to kill the president with a knife ..
as far as the excuse goes. maybe it is school policy to inform them as far in advance as possible..
a month doesn't sound excessive to me..
carry on.......


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## fordy (Sep 13, 2003)

muleskinner2 said:


> Nobody tried to take the kid hostage. He was responding to the threat of being run over by a truck. When a vehicle starts to move at him after being ordered to stop, he would of been justified in shooting the driver.


.......................................The school is as much at fault as the Idiot cop ! The school should have presented a printed list of students WHO , have permission to leave................IN addition the Cops should have had hand held talkies that can communicate with the Office , and the Office should have notified the Cop , Immediately after their conversation with the kids mother .............!


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## Lisa in WA (Oct 11, 2004)

HDRider said:


> I am ONLY here to keep you entertained.


Me too, please. I had foot surgery this morning and I expect to be pretty bored over the next two weeks.


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

Lisa in WA said:


> Me too, please. I had foot surgery this morning and I expect to be pretty bored over the next two weeks.


Are you saying you will entertain us, or you are expecting us to entertain you?

Regarding the foot, kicking butt was bound to catch up with you.


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## Witch's Broom (Dec 23, 2017)

Lisa in WA said:


> Me too, please. I had foot surgery this morning and I expect to be pretty bored over the next two weeks.


Wishing you a speedy recovery, Lisa!


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## Witch's Broom (Dec 23, 2017)

HDRider said:


> Are you saying you will entertain us, or you are expecting us to entertain you?
> 
> Regarding the foot, kicking butt was bound to catch up with you.


Oh, but her performance related to this thread was outstanding (true honest-to-goodness old-fashioned butt kicking), so well worth a little down-time.


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## AmericanStand (Jul 29, 2014)

Did the study also point out that the cops didn’t need to do any of the stuff that resulted in death and injury?


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## AmericanStand (Jul 29, 2014)

Lisa in WA said:


> Me too, please. I had foot surgery this morning and I expect to be pretty bored over the next two weeks.


And then we can go dancing and drink champagne!


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## Danaus29 (Sep 12, 2005)

At the beginning of what was shown the deputy was pointing a gun at the kid, who in turn, was poised so that if he hit the gas he would have run over the officer. While a vehicle can be, and often has been, used as a weapon, the deputy did not have the right to detain the student, IMO. Truancy is NOT a capital offence. They had the identity of the student and legally the student could not be considered truant until he was off school property without permission. 

The 4th amendment says something about unreasonable search and seizure.

Papers! Show me your papers, comrade!


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## Alice In TX/MO (May 10, 2002)

I think that's a walkie talkie, not a gun. Going back to check.

Yes, absolutely a walkie talkie, with the young man's rear view mirror right behind it in the frame.


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

Alice In TX/MO said:


> I think that's a walkie talkie, not a gun. Going back to check.


It was


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

A couple of you really got your panties in a wad on this.

Ask yourself what would have happened if the boy had been courteous, respected the authority and shown permission to leave.


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## AmericanStand (Jul 29, 2014)

Ask yourself what would’ve happened if the cop just shut his mouth and got out of the way?


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## Alice In TX/MO (May 10, 2002)

What would have happened if they had BOTH been respectful?

The young man and his mother followed the school's procedure. The walkie talkie should be linked up with the office for situations JUST like this.

Sigh.

Humans.


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

AmericanStand said:


> Ask yourself what would’ve happened if the cop just shut his mouth and got out of the way?


Have you ever heard someone say "there are no stupid questions"?

There are.


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

Alice In TX/MO said:


> What would have happened if they had BOTH been respectful?
> 
> The young man and his mother followed the school's procedure. The walkie talkie should be linked up with the office for situations JUST like this.
> 
> ...


Who was the walkie talkie linked up to?


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## JeffreyD (Dec 27, 2006)

Lisa in WA said:


> Me too, please. I had foot surgery this morning and I expect to be pretty bored over the next two weeks.


Ouch, hope you feel better and heal quickly!


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## Danaus29 (Sep 12, 2005)

Alice In TX/MO said:


> I think that's a walkie talkie, not a gun. Going back to check.
> 
> Yes, absolutely a walkie talkie, with the young man's rear view mirror right behind it in the frame.


Yes, after looking very closely, it is definitely not a gun. Thanks for pointing that out.


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## Danaus29 (Sep 12, 2005)

I went back and watched it again. On the video the people are detaining the kid. They laugh about how he isn't leaving despite him repeatedly saying he has a legitimate excuse to be off school grounds. The kid appears to be polite and despite trying to explain that he has a right to leave, the others keep saying he is not leaving.

How many of you have doctors or dentists that allow patients to come to appointments whenever they feel like showing up? By detaining him, the school official and the deputy could have made him late for his appointment. What if there had been an emergency? Would they still have detained him and kept talking over him? How would any of you reacted if you were the one being detained? Does anyone think the school official would have believed him if he had called his mother? Why didn't the woman call his mother herself?

I would have left the parking lot another way. After all, he's driving a truck.


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

[email protected] said:


> the cop was under the impression that the kid was truant. so *how does he justify shooting* ?


Did you not watch the video?


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## [email protected] (Sep 16, 2009)

I did watch the video a couple of times.
I could not hear what the boy was saying all of the time because of the cop and the woman talking louder.
the cop kept saying that the video showed the boy pulled up on them. that was not true. the video did not show anybody moving their vehicles. 
the cop listed vulgarity as one of the reasons .
the only person I heard using that kind of language was the cop. he also labeled the boy as s--t.
If someone threatened to shoot me, I would not sit around to see if they meant it. 
from the angle of the camera, the cop was not standing in harms way. he was off to the side..


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## muleskinner2 (Oct 7, 2007)

fordy said:


> .......................................The school is as much at fault as the Idiot cop ! The school should have presented a printed list of students WHO , have permission to leave................IN addition the Cops should have had hand held talkies that can communicate with the Office , and the Office should have notified the Cop , Immediately after their conversation with the kids mother .............!





AmericanStand said:


> You try to take me hostage and draw weapon on me you better be prepared to die with that gun in your hand.


He was not held hostage, and no gun was ever drawn.


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## Witch's Broom (Dec 23, 2017)

muleskinner2 said:


> He was not held hostage, and no gun was ever drawn.


Gun drawn or not, officer is a menace to society. A shameful performance through-and-through.


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## muleskinner2 (Oct 7, 2007)

[email protected] said:


> I did watch the video a couple of times.
> I could not hear what the boy was saying all of the time because of the cop and the woman talking louder.
> the cop kept saying that the video showed the boy pulled up on them. that was not true. the video did not show anybody moving their vehicles.
> the cop listed vulgarity as one of the reasons .
> ...


The driver backed up, turned the wheels toward the officer, and then moved forward. At that point the officer would have been justified in shooting the driver. Instead, he gave the driver a very stern warning,


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## muleskinner2 (Oct 7, 2007)

Danaus29 said:


> At the beginning of what was shown the deputy was pointing a gun at the kid, who in turn, was poised so that if he hit the gas he would have run over the officer. While a vehicle can be, and often has been, used as a weapon, the deputy did not have the right to detain the student, IMO. Truancy is NOT a capital offence. They had the identity of the student and legally the student could not be considered truant until he was off school property without permission.
> 
> The 4th amendment says something about unreasonable search and seizure.
> 
> Papers! Show me your papers, comrade!


At no time was a gun drawn or pointed at anybody. The officer has a radio in his hand. The driver backed up, turned the wheels toward the officer and moved the truck toward the officer. At that point the officer would of been justified in shooting the driver. Instead he gave him a warning.


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## muleskinner2 (Oct 7, 2007)

Danaus29 said:


> I went back and watched it again. On the video the people are detaining the kid. They laugh about how he isn't leaving despite him repeatedly saying he has a legitimate excuse to be off school grounds. The kid appears to be polite and despite trying to explain that he has a right to leave, the others keep saying he is not leaving.
> 
> The kid as you call him, swore at the officer, and when the officer asked him to call his mother so she could confirm, he refused.


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## Witch's Broom (Dec 23, 2017)

muleskinner2 said:


> At no time was a gun drawn or pointed at anybody. The officer has a radio in his hand. *The driver backed up, turned the wheels toward the officer and moved the truck toward to officer. At that point the officer would of been justified in shooting the driver.* Instead he gave him a warning.


Society truly has gone to the dogs.


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## muleskinner2 (Oct 7, 2007)

Witch's Broom said:


> Society truly has gone to the dogs.


I agree.


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## muleskinner2 (Oct 7, 2007)

Witch's Broom said:


> Gun drawn or not, officer is a menace to society.


For doing his job?


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## Lisa in WA (Oct 11, 2004)

muleskinner2 said:


> For doing his job?


You’re not a lawyer and you have a bias for LEO.
I’m guessing more info will come out. 
regardless, I don’t the school will keep either of them on much longer.


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## muleskinner2 (Oct 7, 2007)

Lisa in WA said:


> You’re not a lawyer and you have a bias for LEO.
> I’m guessing more info will come out.
> regardless, I don’t the school will keep either of them on much longer.


You could be right.


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## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

The teenager was expelled. The officer faced no charges or discipline. I expect any new info will not change anything. I expect this teen already was creating problems and that was what lead the officer and other individual to deal with him in this way.


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## muleskinner2 (Oct 7, 2007)

Lisa in WA said:


> You’re not a lawyer and you have a bias for LEO.


Correct, I am not a lawyer. In this case my bias is for the facts, I don't even like most LEO's, and the officer in this video could of handled this better. He was acting upon what he believed to be credible information from the school employee. She has a radio in her hand, why didn't she call the office to confirm the kids story? When the kid drove his truck toward the officer, the officer could of shot him, instead he gave him a warning.


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## Lisa in WA (Oct 11, 2004)

painterswife said:


> The teenager was expelled. The officer faced no charges or discipline. I expect any new info will not change anything. I expect this teen already was creating problems and that was what lead the officer and other individual to deal with him in this way.


ROTFL


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## muleskinner2 (Oct 7, 2007)

painterswife said:


> The teenager was expelled. The officer faced no charges or discipline. I expect any new info will not change anything. I expect this teen already was creating problems and that was what lead the officer and other individual to deal with him in this way.


Well, they know him better than we do.


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## Alice In TX/MO (May 10, 2002)

Saying the teen caused other problems is pure fabrication. Just because he argued when he was in the right does not justify making up a back story. 

We also have NO information about follow up on the resource officer’s consequences. If there are parents in that district with cojones, they will get on the agenda for the next board meeting and demand that the man is fired.


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## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

muleskinner2 said:


> Well, they know him better than we do.


Yes, I don't like that he threatens to shoot but maybe they have dealt with him before. Being expelled suggests that.


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## Alice In TX/MO (May 10, 2002)

It suggests NOTHING other than the district took action on this event.


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## muleskinner2 (Oct 7, 2007)

painterswife said:


> Yes, I don't like that he threatens to shoot but maybe they have dealt with him before. Being expelled suggests that.


When someone drives a vehicle at you, threatening to shoot them is an appropriate response. Not shooting them shows restraint.


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## muleskinner2 (Oct 7, 2007)

Alice In TX/MO said:


> Saying the teen caused other problems is pure fabrication. Just because he argued when he was in the right does not justify making up a back story.
> 
> We also have NO information about follow up on the resource officer’s consequences. If there are parents in that district with cojones, they will get on the agenda for the next board meeting and demand that the man is fired.


I have no information from before, or after this incident. Based on what I saw and heard in the video, other than using the F word, the officer did nothing wrong.


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## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

Alice In TX/MO said:


> It suggests NOTHING other than the district took action on this event.


Why do you think he was expelled? He gave in and went to the office to call his mother. Why would he be expelled after that?


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## Witch's Broom (Dec 23, 2017)

muleskinner2 said:


> For doing his job?


I'm afraid not.

For going out of his way to escalate a situation that called for and required no action on his part (absolutely zero), yet to see an individual in law-enforcement who's job it is to protect the public, take it upon himself and ramp-up his delivery as if he were dealing with America's Most Wanted, then ice his personal party off by uttering lethal force using dirty, foul language, due to him lacking intelligence and self-worth.


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## muleskinner2 (Oct 7, 2007)

Witch's Broom said:


> I'm afraid not.
> 
> For going out of his way to escalate a situation that called for and required no action on his part (absolutely zero), yet to see an individual in law-enforcement who's job it is to protect the public, take it upon himself and ramp-up his delivery as if he were dealing with America's Most Wanted, then ice his personal party off by uttering lethal force using dirty, foul language, due to him lacking intelligence and self-worth.


The officer reacted to a vehicle being driven at him by uttering a very stern warning. Prior to that he was acting upon information given him by the woman who worked for the school. In the audio you can hear her tell the officer that the student is truant. Based upon the information he had, and by what the driver did, he acted with remarkable restraint.


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## Witch's Broom (Dec 23, 2017)

Lisa in WA said:


> ROTFL


My sentiment to a T.

And isn't that the way of a Mickey-mouse legal/justice system, run by a bunch of Minny-mouse individuals.


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## Alice In TX/MO (May 10, 2002)

Threatening to shoot him didn’t bother you?


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## Alice In TX/MO (May 10, 2002)

Daggumit. We are a bunch of Monday morning quarterbacks. Lots of speculation based on our experience or lack of experience dealing with adolescent males on a school campus. 

Enjoy.


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## muleskinner2 (Oct 7, 2007)

Witch's Broom said:


> uttering lethal force using dirty, foul language, due to him lacking intelligence and self-worth.


So, when presented with facts that you don't agree with, your response is to attack the officers choice of words, his intelligence, and give your opinion on his self-worth. Well bless your heart.


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## muleskinner2 (Oct 7, 2007)

Alice In TX/MO said:


> Threatening to shoot him didn’t bother you?


The student turned the wheels of the truck toward the officer, then drove toward the officer. A less experienced officer, or one with less restraint might of shot the driver. And would have been justified in doing so.


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## D-BOONE (Feb 9, 2016)

If I was the sheriff This deputy would be reduced to meter maid or out of the force. 
would only take a good DA less than 30 min to have this cop indited by a gran jury.

*NO ONE IS ABOVE THE LAW
If you have to break the law to enforce the law then we dont need the law*


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## muleskinner2 (Oct 7, 2007)

D-BOONE said:


> If I was the sheriff This deputy would be reduced to meter maid or out of the force.
> would only take a good DA less than 30 min to have this cop indited by a gran jury.
> 
> *NO ONE IS ABOVE THE LAW
> If you have to break the law to enforce the law then we dont need the law*


What laws were broken?


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## Witch's Broom (Dec 23, 2017)

muleskinner2 said:


> So, when presented with facts that you don't agree with, your response is to attack the officers choice of words, his intelligence, and give your opinion on his self-worth. Well bless your heart.


What a shame it is to know there isn't more folk with the mindset to stand up against this sort of behaviour and speak out on it.


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## muleskinner2 (Oct 7, 2007)

Witch's Broom said:


> What a shame it is to know there isn't more folk with the mindset to stand up against this sort of behaviour and speak out on it.


I agree completely, this truancy thing has gotten way out of hand.


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## Witch's Broom (Dec 23, 2017)

muleskinner2 said:


> The officer reacted to a vehicle being driven at him by uttering a very stern warning. Prior to that he was acting upon information given him by the woman who worked for the school. In the audio you can hear her tell the officer that the student is truant. Based upon the information he had, and by what the driver did, *he acted with remarkable restraint*.


So long as you think so.


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## [email protected] (Sep 16, 2009)

clearly the officer took a mild situation and turned it almost deadly. no need to have gone that far..
first the officer treats the boy like a juvenile, and then escalates it to treating him like an adult.
make up his mind..
listen closely to what the officer said.
stick to the video, that is all the facts you have to work with..


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## AmericanStand (Jul 29, 2014)

Mule skinner I think you were trying to have it both ways in your argument
You were saying the boy was not held hostage kidnapped can find against his will etc. but at the same time you’re arguing that the boy was driving towards the car when he was trying to go around the golf cart
If the car wasn’t in his way trying to confine him the boy would not have been driving towards him
Personally from everything I’ve seen it looks like the boy was trying to drive around the car and the cop was so upset by a car coming in his general direction that he had to threaten to kill somebody 
you should hear the tears in my voice as I say that.


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## AmericanStand (Jul 29, 2014)

Seem like the only voice of reason why is the boy driving like a truck when the two so-called adults walked his way from leaving campus he backed up went to the office and took care of the situation
I’m sorry but when you hear both adults talking about how he’s not going to leave campus and laughing about it together that’s very obvious that they were detaining him and holding him in a kidnapping illegal detention hostage situation


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

[email protected] said:


> the cop kept saying that the video showed the boy pulled up on them. that was not true.


It was true in the video I saw.


[email protected] said:


> from the angle of the camera, the cop was not standing in harms way. he was off to the side..


Yes, and the driver turned the truck in his direction, which is when the warning was given.


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## muleskinner2 (Oct 7, 2007)

AmericanStand said:


> towards the car when he was trying to go around the golf cart


I did not see the boy drive towards any car, I saw him drive towards the officer. To get around the golf cart he would of had to run over the officer. I do not know what the truancy laws are in Florida, so I won't speculate on that part of it. A peace officer has the authority to question, detain, and arrest of necessary. So kidnap, or hostage taking doesn't enter into it.


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## D-BOONE (Feb 9, 2016)

muleskinner2 said:


> What laws were broken?


790.162 Threat to throw, project, place, or discharge any destructive device, felony; penalty.—It is unlawful for any person to threaten to throw, project, place, or discharge any destructive device with intent to do bodily harm to any person or with intent to do damage to any property of any person, and any person convicted thereof commits a felony of the second degree, 

False imprisonment...because truancy is not a stopable offense .


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## muleskinner2 (Oct 7, 2007)

D-BOONE said:


> 790.162 Threat to throw, project, place, or discharge any destructive device, felony; penalty.—It is unlawful for any person to threaten to throw, project, place, or discharge any destructive device with intent to do bodily harm to any person or with intent to do damage to any property of any person, and any person convicted thereof commits a felony of the second degree,
> 
> False imprisonment...because truancy is not a stopable offense .


The threat of deadly force is justified and legal when a person is confronted with the threat of deadly force. When the truck moved in his direction, the deputy was confronted with a threat of deadly force. And he would of been justified in shooting the driver.

I don't know if truancy is a stoppable offence in Florida. Where I worked they could be issued a ticket or arrested. I have seen kids get three days in juvenile detention for truancy.


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## AmericanStand (Jul 29, 2014)

There was a car immediately behind Mr. Miller there was a golf cart immediately in front of him to go around the golf cart he had to use the other lane
The policeman put himself in a position to block the other lane
Mr. Miller was trying to maneuver his vehicle between the golf cart the car behind him and go around the officer but the officer prohibited him from moving under threat of death
That was very much detaining him against his will because he’s very plainly wanted to be somewhere else
Also the cop had t to be some sort of stupid to think that truck was aimed at him it was quite obvious that Mr. Miller was trying to go around him it just happened to be let in a certain position the vehicle would be angled towards him Also the carpet to be some sort of stupid to think that truck was aimed at him it was quite obvious that Mr. Miller was trying to go around him it just happened to be that in a certain position in the turn the vehicle would be angled towards him. 
There would be an awful lot of dead people out there if cops killed every driver of a vehicle that happen to be pointed in your direction for a moment
Do they teach you in deputy school to step out in front of a moving vehicle? That’s with the deputy did


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## AmericanStand (Jul 29, 2014)

Nope no deadly force
The speed that truck was moving out could have caused that cop no damage of any sort even if it had pushed him .
To perceive that vehicle is deadly force the couple that had to be the worlds biggest pansy
Hummmmm Well it seems like I might’ve backed myself into a corner on that one


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

D-BOONE said:


> 790.162 Threat to throw, project, place, or discharge any destructive device, felony; penalty.—It is unlawful for any person to threaten to throw, project, place, or discharge any destructive device with intent to do bodily harm to any person or with intent to do damage to any property of any person, and any person convicted thereof commits a felony of the second degree,


Don't give up your day job.


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## Redlands Okie (Nov 28, 2017)

Why would the kid argue with a armed man in uniform ? It’s just bad judgment. Right or wrong has little to do with it. Such things have gotten people killed. It’s a lot better to do as told and resolve the issue in a safer time and place. 

All of them made mistakes. But that kids mom should have had some serious parenting discussion with that kid a long time ago. Probably to late now.

And the title of the thread is quite misleading.


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## AmericanStand (Jul 29, 2014)

Lots of teenagers chaf under unreasonable law-enforcement this kid wasn’t first he wont be the last but as you said darn lucky to be alive.


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## AmericanStand (Jul 29, 2014)

Mule skinner do you want certain you would not enforce an unconstitutional law or what about this one?Neil Skinner you want to say that you would not enforce an unconstitutional law or what about this one
How can it be constitutional for the government to take you hostage and hold you or you don’t want to be when you haven’t committed a crime?


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## muleskinner2 (Oct 7, 2007)

AmericanStand said:


> There was a car immediately behind Mr. Miller there was a golf cart immediately in front of him to go around the golf cart he had to use the other lane
> The policeman put himself in a position to block the other lane
> Mr. Miller was trying to maneuver his vehicle between the golf cart the car behind him and go around the officer but the officer prohibited him from moving under threat of death
> That was very much detaining him against his will because he’s very plainly wanted to be somewhere else
> ...


When the deputy stepped into position, the truck came to stop. Then the driver backed up, stopped, turned his truck toward the deputy then moved toward him. The deputy has what they call, "no duty to retreat". That means he doesn't have to back up or move from the path of a vehicle or person whom he has the authority to stop. During the course of his investigation, he had the authority to stop, detain, and question the driver. 

And, what they taught me in deputy school was, if I told someone to stop and they drove toward me disregarding a lawful order, I could defend my self.


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## AmericanStand (Jul 29, 2014)

Didn’t they ever teach you how to tell the difference between a car coming toward you or going around you?


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## muleskinner2 (Oct 7, 2007)

AmericanStand said:


> Mule skinner do you want certain you would not enforce an unconstitutional law or what about this one?Neil Skinner you want to say that you would not enforce an unconstitutional law or what about this one
> How can it be constitutional for the government to take you hostage and hold you or you don’t want to be when you haven’t committed a crime?


The government, or the deputy in this case has the authority to investigate a potential crime. This deputy has the authority to stop, detain, and question a suspect. The amount time a person can be detained varies depending upon the circumstances. The government cannot imprison you if you haven't committed a crime, they can detain you for a short time in order to conduct an investigation.

I have refused to serve warrants that I believed to be unconstitutional. I have also detained suspects while conducting an investigation.


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## muleskinner2 (Oct 7, 2007)

AmericanStand said:


> Didn’t they ever teach you how to tell the difference between with her car was coming toward you or going around you?


The truck in the video is moving directly toward the officer.


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## AmericanStand (Jul 29, 2014)

Yeah that lawful order thing that’s kind of a bugaboo since if you shoot the guy three lawyers from him estate will get to discuss it in court for hours 
while you get a half a second to make up your mind.


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## AmericanStand (Jul 29, 2014)

muleskinner2 said:


> The truck in the video is moving directly toward the officer.


 No it is not 
Watch it again. 
The deputy even knew it wasn’t he kept saying the tires were pointed towards him. 
It’s not like the tires are a gun that will go off and shoot something ahead of them

Mr. Miller was obviously trying to maneuver around the officer


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## AmericanStand (Jul 29, 2014)

I think you misunderstand me about the constitutional thing
How can it be constitutional to require Mr. Miller to be at school if he doesn’t want to be there?
Writing a law doesn’t make a constitutional


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## muleskinner2 (Oct 7, 2007)

AmericanStand said:


> No it is not
> Watch it again.
> The deputy even knew it wasn’t he kept saying the tires were pointed towards him.
> It’s not like the tires are a gun that will go off and shoot something ahead of them
> ...


When the driver pointed the tires of the truck at the deputy he would have justified in drawing his weapon. If the truck had moved forward after that, the deputy would have been justified in shooting the driver.


----------



## muleskinner2 (Oct 7, 2007)

AmericanStand said:


> I think you misunderstand me about the constitutional thing
> How can it be constitutional to require Mr. Miller to be at school if he doesn’t want to be there?
> Writing a law doesn’t make a constitutional


If Mr. Miller was of the age where he wasn't required to be at the school, then keeping him there would be unlawful, and unconstitutional. The deputy had no way of knowing how old Mr. Miller was. He was acting upon the information given him by the school employee. He had no reason to think that the school employee was wrong.


----------



## muleskinner2 (Oct 7, 2007)

AmericanStand said:


> Watch it again.


I watched it again. The truck is coming directly towards the officer. The officer should of never let him get that close.


----------



## muleskinner2 (Oct 7, 2007)

AmericanStand said:


> Yeah that lawful order thing that’s kind of a bugaboo since if you shoot the guy three lawyers from him estate will get to discuss it in court for hours
> while you get a half a second to make up your mind.


Yep.


----------



## muleskinner2 (Oct 7, 2007)

AmericanStand said:


> Nope no deadly force
> The speed that truck was moving out could have caused that cop no damage of any sort even if it had pushed him .
> To perceive that vehicle is deadly force the couple that had to be the worlds biggest pansy
> Hummmmm Well it seems like I might’ve backed myself into a corner on that one


All of which would of made for interesting video during the use of force investigation.

And that ladies and gentlemen is what you call a civil discussion. We did not change each others minds, but we did have a discussion.

Past my bedtime now, so night night.


----------



## Danaus29 (Sep 12, 2005)

Bearfootfarm said:


> The article said the mother "notified the school *weeks* in advance". That seems strange to me.
> 
> I would have notified them a day or two before the appointment so it would be fresh in their minds.


The time frame does not seem strange to me. You have to make those appointments weeks in advance. Notify the school when you make the appointment so you don't have to worry about it later.




muleskinner2 said:


> At no time was a gun drawn or pointed at anybody. The officer has a radio in his hand. The driver backed up, turned the wheels toward the officer and moved the truck toward the officer. At that point the officer would of been justified in shooting the driver. Instead he gave him a warning.


I posted later that it wasn't a gun, I was mistaken, you must have missed that. But pointing a radio or cell phone at a cop will get you shot because all they will see is a gun.

A crime cannot exist until one has been committed. If he had no excuse upon his return to school then he would have been truant. There was no cause or reason to detain him.
Did the kid even have a phone with him? He had to go to the office to make that call to his mother. 
The car that was behind him was able to leave without being threatened.


----------



## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

Danaus29 said:


> The time frame does not seem strange to me. You have to make those appointments *weeks* in advance. Notify the school when you make the appointment *so you don't have to worry about it later*.


I would notify them in writing one or two *days* in advance so they won't forget, and so the school doesn't have to worry about it later.



Danaus29 said:


> The car that was behind him was able to leave without being threatened.


There were no issues with that person.
They didn't act aggressively towards anyone.



Danaus29 said:


> There *was no cause* or reason to detain him.


The people involved thought otherwise.
Your opinion doesn't change theirs, and you still don't know what happened prior to the video. Those there knew everything.


----------



## Danaus29 (Sep 12, 2005)

Bearfootfarm said:


> I would notify them in writing one or two *days* in advance so they won't forget, and so the school doesn't have to worry about it later.
> 
> 
> There were no issues with that person.
> ...


nowthisnews.com says Mom called the school earlier that day to report the absence.
wtsp.com reports that formal complaints have been filed by the mother.

School personnel are very good at losing advance notices of absences. I notified our school in writing about a week long vacation, both one month before and the Friday before. They still left 30 messages on my answering machine about the kids being absent. But it doesn't matter, he wasn't truant until he came back without a note from the doctor or a parent.

No, we don't know what happened at the beginning, before the deputy started the recording. Still, the kid was not truant until he came back without an excuse. Why didn't the school call the parent? They had her number and it would have been faster than making the kid park, go into the office and make the call.

We don't know why they originally stopped the kid. Did they have orders to keep him on campus? Were they just bullying him? Did he start something when he entered the lot? Who knows. But they really did not have the right to detain him. 

Since the school official knew the kid, she also knew his age and his attendance record. Her part was not recorded so we have no way of knowing the exchange between them. Was the deputy already on site or did she call for assistance?


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## AmericanStand (Jul 29, 2014)

muleskinner2 said:


> I watched it again. The truck is coming directly towards the officer. The officer should of never let him get that close.


 Isn’t it obvious that the officer did that on purpose?


----------



## gilberte (Sep 25, 2004)

Okay, not knowing all the facts and making some reluctant assumptions, I'm going to take a stab at this. All of us know how easy it is to Monday morning quarterback, especially if we haven't seen the whole game.
I'll assume that I am the school resource officer and my primary purpose is to contain and control any threats to peaceful and lawful attendance at the school. I'll also assume that the school has had prior problems with this individual and that I have had prior (probably problematic) dealings with him as well.
So he pulls up to the gate to leave. I stop and approach him and inquire as to his authorization to leave school. He does stop and gets mouthy and belligerent and insists that he wants to leave. Short of a court order from a judge to detain and/or arrest him, at this point I tell him that his activity will be reported to the school administration and further disciplinary action may be forthcoming.
He either turns around and returns or leaves. The situation does not escalate (at least due to my actions) and no one gets harmed. Anything else he does at that point is still open to interpretation and action.


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

It is easy to see why so many young men get shot by cops when we have mothers defending the son's resistance to authority. 

One person initially escalated this situation. It got worse from there


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## Witch's Broom (Dec 23, 2017)

gilberte said:


> Okay, not knowing all the facts and making some reluctant assumptions, I'm going to take a stab at this. All of us know how easy it is to Monday morning quarterback, especially if we haven't seen the whole game.
> I'll assume that I am the school resource officer and my primary purpose is to contain and control any threats to peaceful and lawful attendance at the school. I'll also assume that the school has had prior problems with this individual and that I have had prior (probably problematic) dealings with him as well.
> So he pulls up to the gate to leave. I stop and approach him and inquire as to his authorization to leave school. He does stop and gets mouthy and belligerent and insists that he wants to leave. Short of a court order from a judge to detain and/or arrest him, at this point I tell him that his activity will be reported to the school administration and further disciplinary action may be forthcoming.
> He either turns around and returns or leaves. The situation does not escalate (at least due to my actions) and no one gets harmed. Anything else he does at that point is still open to interpretation and action.


Excellent, and exactly what a sane individual would do, but by the looks of it, they hire individuals with zero people skills and overinflated egos, then hand them a gun.


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## Witch's Broom (Dec 23, 2017)

Danaus29 said:


> nowthisnews.com says Mom called the school earlier that day to report the absence.
> wtsp.com reports that formal complaints have been filed by the mother.
> 
> School personnel are very good at losing advance notices of absences. I notified our school in writing about a week long vacation, both one month before and the Friday before. They still left 30 messages on my answering machine about the kids being absent. But it doesn't matter, he wasn't truant until he came back without a note from the doctor or a parent.
> ...


I sincerely hope the mother has initiated the help of a legal firm, as complaints all too often seem to fall on deaf ears.


----------



## GTX63 (Dec 13, 2016)

Yep, that is what the world needs, more lawyers getting involved.


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## Witch's Broom (Dec 23, 2017)

GTX63 said:


> Yep, that is what the world needs, more lawyers getting involved.


You know it.


----------



## AmericanStand (Jul 29, 2014)

gilberte said:


> Okay, not knowing all the facts and making some reluctant assumptions, I'm going to take a stab at this. All of us know how easy it is to Monday morning quarterback, especially if we haven't seen the whole game.
> I'll assume that I am the school resource officer and my primary purpose is to contain and control any threats to peaceful and lawful attendance at the school. I'll also assume that the school has had prior problems with this individual and that I have had prior (probably problematic) dealings with him as well.
> So he pulls up to the gate to leave. I stop and approach him and inquire as to his authorization to leave school. He does stop and gets mouthy and belligerent and insists that he wants to leave. Short of a court order from a judge to detain and/or arrest him, at this point I tell him that his activity will be reported to the school administration and further disciplinary action may be forthcoming.
> He either turns around and returns or leaves. The situation does not escalate (at least due to my actions) and no one gets harmed. Anything else he does at that point is still open to interpretation and action.


 Pretty good scenario except for one item
No Gate !
These people pulled up and blocked the exit lane With a golf cart. 
Then they blocked the area he would need to go around the golf cart. 
Mr. Miller will not exactly cooperative was fairly respectful and he asked the officer to move to which the officer replied “you’re not in charge of me”
which one of these people sounds like a six-year-old?


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## 101pigs (Sep 18, 2018)

AmericanStand said:


> Pretty good scenario except for one item
> No Gate !
> These people pulled up and blocked the exit lane With a golf cart.
> Then they blocked the area he would need to go around the golf cart.
> ...


They should fire the officers and get someone who knows how to do their job. They need to kick the student out of school and not let him back in school. When i was young there were special schools for slow learners and also trouble makers. In out town we do have a special school for trouble makers. Around the state there are many special schools for these people that just don't fit in with the other students.


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## Witch's Broom (Dec 23, 2017)

101pigs said:


> They should fire the officers and get someone who knows how to do their job. They need to kick the student out of school and not let him back in school. When i was young there were special schools for slow learners and also trouble makers. In out town we do have a special school for trouble makers. Around the state there are many special schools for these people that just don't fit in with the other students.


The school discipline assistant should be sent packing, too.

I'm hoping the boy and his mom are working on getting him back on the right track at school, and am praying the teen doesn't suffer any long-term effects over transpired.


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

Witch's Broom said:


> The school discipline assistant should be sent packing, too.
> 
> I'm hoping the boy and his mom are working on getting him back on the right track at school, and am praying the teen doesn't suffer any long-term effects over transpired.


Everyone is at fault but that poor kid.


----------



## Alice In TX/MO (May 10, 2002)

You have no evidence that he is a slow learner or a trouble maker. The only evidence is that he wanted to go to his appointment.

Humans have a wide range of normal responses when thwarted. We may not like them.


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## AmericanStand (Jul 29, 2014)

HDRider said:


> Everyone is at fault but that poor kid.


right I’m glad you finally understand


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## AmericanStand (Jul 29, 2014)

The Takeaway on this is that Mr. Miller was a little bit rude. 
That is a normal response in teenagers faced with authority
But the officer whose job is to descalate conflict did not do that he did the opposite of his job he escalated conflict
The lady assistant had a similar job and she to failed miserably at her job
Mule skinner who is probably dealt with these things in court far more than any of the rest of us seems to feel that they were both with in the law. 
But what they were not within was the scope of their jobs not the technicality of their jobs but the spirit of their jobs. 
Both of the adults were professionals doing their job they just did them so poorly that it was flabbergasting


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## Witch's Broom (Dec 23, 2017)

HDRider said:


> Everyone is at fault but that poor kid.


By George, I think you've got it!


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## [email protected] (Sep 16, 2009)

the kid's fault was that he did not know how to handle an immature child.. in this case,, two of them..


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## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

They both messed up from the info we have. The teen was suspended and then expelled. There is more to the story than is apparent from the video and posted story.

No one here can really judge the rightness of anything based on the info. All you have is your opinion, not all the facts.

Yes, this is my opinion.


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## [email protected] (Sep 16, 2009)

if that is true, it is ironic that the kid is forced to stay away when the issue was that he wanted to get away in the first place ...


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

AmericanStand said:


> right I’m glad you finally understand


I pity the kids going through life thinking they can refuse a police officers command.


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## GTX63 (Dec 13, 2016)

I could be quite the punk as a young adult but in the presence of authority I was "yes mam" and "no mam".
On a couple of occasions when my antics got me in trouble, it was pretty embarrassing to hear my mother try to make excuses for me.
However, those excuses were to someone else, and just for the purpose of getting me home; that was when justice was served.


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

I have only had one real run in with the cops. My brother and I were held at gun point for well over an hour as his truck was searched (ransacked really).

The cops had seen empty 22 hulls laying in the floor board and freaked out. A cop had been shot in that area the day before.

Those four cops were scared to death. We were too.

Being mouthy might have deprived all of you from reading my witty, and often times enlightening posts.

That kid might not live long enough to post on HT.


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## Lisa in WA (Oct 11, 2004)

HDRider said:


> I pity the kids going through life thinking they can refuse a police officers command.


I do too. My kids were raised to be respectful and polite. So was I.
The mother of this boy pointed out that her son was being immature. However, the kid being a little spit doesn’t negate the wrong on the side of the adults.
I expect some mouthiness from many teens (and corresponding discipline), but I don’t expect adults in positions of authority over teens to behave similarly. Most particularly someone with a badge and gun.

We didn’t have resource officers when I was in school but I do well remember the attitudes of vice principals (or whomever was responsible for discipline) in the three different high schools I attended. not dissimilar to the teacher supervising Saturday detention in the movie, “The Breakfast Club”.
I was never on the receiving end of it but I saw it. And so did many others which is why the character resonated with people.
The thought of a guy with a badge and a gun behaving this way is appalling. He is (to me) clearly enjoying the situation as is the woman with him.
Again, I think the kid needs to be dealt with. According to something else I read, the punishment for truancy is to lose the privilege of driving to school. One would think if this kid was an ongoing problem in this area, he wouldn’t be driving to school anyway.


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## AmericanStand (Jul 29, 2014)

HDRider said:


> I pity the kids going through life thinking they can refuse a police officers command.


If he was my son we would’ve had a pretty serious discussion about whether he has a desire to survive to be an adult.


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

Lisa in WA said:


> I do too. My kids were raised to be respectful and polite. So was I.
> The mother of this boy pointed out that her son was being immature. However, the kid being a little spit doesn’t negate the wrong on the side of the adults.
> I expect some mouthiness from many teens (and corresponding discipline), but I don’t expect adults in positions of authority over teens to behave similarly. Most particularly someone with a badge and gun.
> 
> ...


I have always danced on both sides of the line of right and wrong. All in good fun.

I was smart enough to realize a guy with a gun does have a distinct advantage over my well being, and especially when he could lock me up with people that had perfected being bad. 

Just because the police carry a gun does not endow them with compassion, good sense or proper decorum, but they do still have a gun, and the law is going to back them 99 times out of 100. I don't see the odds being in one's favor in that situation. 

If you got a beef, if you have a just case, use some good sense and live to fight another day. Just get out alive.


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

AmericanStand said:


> If he was my son we would’ve had a pretty serious discussion about whether he has a desire to survive to be an adult.


Who is using AS's id?

Who is this?


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## Lisa in WA (Oct 11, 2004)

HDRider said:


> I have always danced on both sides of the line of right and wrong. All in good fun.
> 
> I was smart enough to realize a guy with a gun does have a distinct advantage over my well being, and especially when he could lock me up with people that had perfected being bad.
> 
> ...



Agreed. but it’s not all about the kid. 
The adults in charge here were wrong and should face discipline.


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

Lisa in WA said:


> Agreed. but it’s not all about the kid.
> The adults in charge here were wrong and should face discipline.


I am not justifying their poor behavior, but power demands a certain respect, or you might die.


----------



## no really (Aug 7, 2013)

Live to fight another day. All I can say is if I as a student got myself into that confrontation my pickup would have been sold and I would have ended up walking. Fault on all sides and there could be much more to the whole situation than we will ever know. IMHO


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

I will say partisan alignment on this thread has been somewhat unique.


----------



## Danaus29 (Sep 12, 2005)

Alice In TX/MO said:


> You have no evidence that he is a slow learner or a trouble maker. The only evidence is that he wanted to go to his appointment.
> 
> Humans have a wide range of normal responses when thwarted. We may not like them.


There was another article which stated the young man had an IEP but does not say why. In the same article his mother is quoted as saying, "I know he is no angel".
That article is at wtsp.com.
https://www.wtsp.com/article/news/l...chool/67-72558958-db5b-4194-afbb-bfd9de047ed7

Only took me 2 months but I think I have figured out how to paste links!


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## Lisa in WA (Oct 11, 2004)

HDRider said:


> I am not justifying their poor behavior, but power demands a certain respect, or you might die.


Absolutely. but we should still strive to have power tempered by responsible and mature behavior.
The kid has been given a comsequence. I’d like to see the adults pay one too.


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## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

The teen's consequence is likely for more than this one instance. I don't believe he was expelled for this one thing.


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## Lisa in WA (Oct 11, 2004)

no really said:


> Live to fight another day. All I can say is if I as a student got myself into that confrontation my pickup would have been sold and I would have ended up walking. Fault on all sides and there could be much more to the whole situation than we will ever know. IMHO


Same here.
And with my oldest, I swear...either she was grounded or the car was.
You never reward bad or irresponsible behavior with driving privileges.

I remember when my years ago long before I had a teen and our car was broken into. The police caught the teenager responsible t(from our neighborhood) rying to sell my husbands prescription antibiotic. two days later his parents had a banner in front of their house because he was playing in the upcoming football game.
I remember thinking how stupid they were.


----------



## Lisa in WA (Oct 11, 2004)

HDRider said:


> I will say partisan alignment on this thread has been somewhat unique.


i see exactly what you mean.


----------



## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

Lisa in WA said:


> Absolutely. but we should still strive to have power tempered by responsible and mature behavior.
> The kid has been given a comsequence. I’d like to see the adults pay one too.


We are all striving. Some just do it better than others


----------



## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

HDRider said:


> I will say partisan alignment on this thread has been somewhat unique.


I can see both sides of this issue, kid was wrong and the cop was wrong. The cop had the authority, and the kid should have complied. The cop wasn't proper and professional.

I do think there's more to this as to why the kid was expelled, and agree we'll never know the whole story.

ETA: Why do some think it always has to be an "us against them" thing?


----------



## Lisa in WA (Oct 11, 2004)

HDRider said:


> We are all striving. Some just do it better than others


And some strive for the wrong things.


----------



## Lisa in WA (Oct 11, 2004)

I just found this in a more local news story.


"I know he is no angel," Miller said. "But that is why he had an IEP, and people in charge shouldn't be making things worse; and the school has violated his rights under the disability act.


An IEP is an Individual Education Program for students who are eligible for special education, services and school support.”

https://www.wtsp.com/article/news/l...chool/67-72558958-db5b-4194-afbb-bfd9de047ed7

So the kid has SOME kind of disability. Which is known by the school and clearly they call him by name so they know who he is.


----------



## Danaus29 (Sep 12, 2005)

HDRider said:


> I pity the kids going through life thinking they can refuse a police officers command.


Sometimes the police give stupid, conflicting or unethical commands. I could give several examples including the one of a wheelchair bound person who was ordered to stand up, then beaten when they didn't comply.

Sadly I can't find that link. There are a lot of similar incidents though.

https://www.bbc.com/news/stories-45739335


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

Danaus29 said:


> nowthisnews.com
> Mom called the school earlier that day to report the absence.


They can make any claims they want now.



Danaus29 said:


> School personnel are very good at losing advance notices of absences.


All the more reason to not call *weeks* in advance.



Danaus29 said:


> No, *we don't know what happened* at the beginning, before the deputy started the recording. Still, the kid was not truant until he came back without an excuse. Why didn't the school call the parent? They had her number and it would have been faster than making the kid park, go into the office and make the call


They told him to call before they would *allow* him to leave. All he needed to do was comply.
That happened before the video began.



Danaus29 said:


> But they really did not have the right to detain him.


They have a responsibility to keep kids on campus during school hours, and not let them come and go as they please.


----------



## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

Because it almost always is



Irish Pixie said:


> ETA: Why do some think it always has to be an "us against them" thing?


----------



## AmericanStand (Jul 29, 2014)

There is right 
and there is wrong 
and there is how to get along !




HDRider said:


> I have always danced on both sides of the line of right and wrong. All in good fun.
> 
> I was smart enough to realize a guy with a gun does have a distinct advantage over my well being, and especially when he could lock me up with people that had perfected being bad.
> 
> ...


 I totally agree with everything you said in the “post

Just because I argue for right does not mean I have given up all my survival skills


----------



## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

HDRider said:


> Because it almost always is


In your opinion, why does it have to be that way?


----------



## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

Irish Pixie said:


> In your opinion, why does it have to be that way?


Our brains work differently. Our life experiences are different.

Some people lead with feelings, while some lead with reason. That is not a slam. I know if sounds like it is, but studies prove it out. I actually posted about a book that lays it all out. I have studied on it a lot. I find that very subject fascinating, and frustrating.


----------



## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

Irish Pixie said:


> In your opinion, *why does it have to be* that way?


No one said it had to be, other than you.
I've always said threads are what you make them.


----------



## gilberte (Sep 25, 2004)

I live in America in 2020. If I'm stopped by somebody legitimately wearing a badge and told to do something, I will conform. The place to disagree with their conduct and actions is in a court of law. Not on the street.


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

Bearfootfarm said:


> No one said it had to be, other than you.
> I've always said threads are what you make them.


The only way it doesn't "have to be that way" is for people to agree on everything. Ain't going to happen.


----------



## no really (Aug 7, 2013)

HDRider said:


> Our brains work differently. Our life experiences are different.
> 
> Some people lead with feelings, while some lead with reason. That is not a slam. I know if sounds like it is, but studies prove it out. I actually posted about a book that lays it all out. I have studied on it a lot. I find that very subject fascinating, and frustrating.


Looks like an interesting read.


----------



## Danaus29 (Sep 12, 2005)

Bearfootfarm said:


> They can make any claims they want now.
> 
> 
> All the more reason to not call *weeks* in advance.
> ...


Another article said she called the morning of the appointment.

Did anyone offer him a phone to call his mother? The deputy said he had to hear it himself then told him to go to the office to make the call. Conflicting instructions. The deputy wouldn't be able to talk to the mother on a call made from the school office. Would the deputy have believed the kid called? Not when the woman from the school is standing there screaming "he's truant". 

Students must be allowed to leave for emergencies and appointments. To keep a student from leaving for a legitimate reason is unreasonable. I repeat that the school official could have made it very fast and easy, use her radio to notify the school secretary to call the mother. Or she could have used her phone to call his mother. That would not have been unreasonable.
"Sir, put your vehicle in park, shut it off and sit there while we call your mother".
One simple solution, one that used to be done when kids needed to leave school if a kid got sick or needed to go home.

But again, he was over 16 years old, they cannot require him to attend school. They can only expel him or charge him with truancy *AFTER* he has a certain number of unexcused absenses. But we can't expect the police to know the law, can we?

The kid may have been rude, he may have called the deputy and school official names, he may have cussed at them. But they detained him without them making a single effort to verify his story. The kid was on a deadline, he had a dentist appointment, he was in a hurry. Anyone would get frustrated in his situation.

All parents should take notes, any time your child, who drives, needs to go to an appointment before school, write them a note so they can have it on them just in case said child helps a friend by dropping them off at school after that friend misses their bus.

BTW, the articles don't say but was this during school hours? Other cars were coming into the parking lot. It appears to be before school hours.


----------



## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

Danaus29 said:


> Another article said she called the morning of the appointment.


Yes, articles *say* lots of things.
They don't prove any of them.



Danaus29 said:


> Did anyone offer him a phone to call his mother?


Who cares?
He had a chance to do *as asked* before the video started.
I see no point in repeating it all yet again when nothing is going to change.


----------



## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

HDRider said:


> Our brains work differently. Our life experiences are different.
> 
> Some people lead with feelings, while some lead with reason. That is not a slam. I know if sounds like it is, but studies prove it out. I actually posted about a book that lays it all out. I have studied on it a lot. I find that very subject fascinating, and frustrating.


My question is why does it have to come down to sides? I agreed that the situation was escalated by both sides and it was brought up in posts like it was a horrible thing to do. Why? It has nothing to with agreement, I actually agreed with you. 

Snide, snippy, insulting posts, is my opinion. And again. Why?


----------



## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

Irish Pixie said:


> My question is why does it have to come down to sides? I agreed that the situation was escalated by both sides and it was brought up in posts like it was a horrible thing to do. Why? It has nothing to with agreement, I actually agreed with you.
> 
> Snide, snippy, insulting posts, is my opinion. And again. Why?


I stated plainly, no insult intended. You chose to take umbrage. 

Sides is simply one person, or group disagreeing with each other. It might be one person against the world, but there it is, sides.


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

Irish Pixie said:


> *My question is why* *does it have to* come down to sides?


It doesn't "have to".
You just keep asking the same questions.
Threads are what you make them.


----------



## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

HDRider said:


> The only way it doesn't "have to be that way" is for people to agree on everything. Ain't going to happen.


I never expect people to all agree on everything.
It would be nice if they would all simply accept the facts instead of ignoring them.

Some will bend over backwards to make everything an issue though.


----------



## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

HDRider said:


> I stated plainly, no insult intended. You chose to take umbrage.
> 
> Sides is simply one person, or group disagreeing with each other. It might be one person against the world, but there it is, sides.


Did you? Had nothing to do with prior posts? Or petty little jabs?


----------



## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

Irish Pixie said:


> Did you? Had nothing to do with prior posts? Or petty little jabs?


You have lost me now.

For the most part I don't really remember past posts, water under the bridge. I do recall those that are regularly on the "other side" of me. That said, I have been on the other side with everyone on HT, one time or another.


----------



## gilberte (Sep 25, 2004)

I'm starting to feel a little like Jack Nicholson now. "Daddy's Home!


----------



## Danaus29 (Sep 12, 2005)

Bearfootfarm said:


> Yes, articles *say* lots of things.
> They don't prove any of them.
> 
> 
> ...


He should not have had to make a phone call. What purpose would be served by detaining him?

The deputy and official sound like typical bullies. "We're just standing here." "He pulled up." "This is my campus buddy."

The part before the recording is the problem. I can see where if the woman was there alone and tried to stop him from leaving, that the deputy would be called and would have started with an attitude if she said the kid was giving her trouble. But once upon a time, school officials believed in talking to parents if a student was causing problems. They would have made the call, not demanded the student make the call.

The problem is in expecting adults to act like adults and keep students from being bullied, not being the bully and keep on arguing with a teenager. Nobody wins when you argue with teenagers. What kept the school official from calling the parents? That should have been done before calling the cops.


----------



## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

Danaus29 said:


> He should not have had to make a phone call.


Why keep repeating yourself?



Danaus29 said:


> The part before the recording is the problem.


The part you don't know, but they do.



Danaus29 said:


> But *once upon a time*, school officials believed in talking to parents if a student was causing problems. They would have made the call, not demanded the student make the call.


Once upon a time students weren't as likely to have a phone *in their pocket* with the contact numbers.


----------



## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

No leaving school grounds without permission is one of the school's rules. It was his and his mother's responsibilities to make sure that permission was recorded at the office. That is why he was asked to go phone her.


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## Lisa in WA (Oct 11, 2004)

painterswife said:


> No leaving school grounds without permission is one of the school's rules. It was his and his mother's responsibilities to make sure that permission was recorded at the office. That is why he was asked to go phone her.


do you have a link for that? At most US high schools, students can leave campus for lunch, or when classes are done in junior or senior years, etc. I don’t recall a policy prohibiting high school students from leaving campus.


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## Danaus29 (Sep 12, 2005)

Again, the whole problem could have been avoided if Ms. Bonds would have taken charge, pulled her phone from her pocket and told the kid to stay there while she made the call, just like school personnel did before everyone had a phone in their pocket. 

How would Ms Bonds know he actually called his mother and how could she have talked to his mother if he is inside the building, in the office, on the phone?


----------



## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

Lisa in WA said:


> do you have a link for that? At most US high schools, students can leave campus for lunch, or when classes are done in junior or senior years, etc. I don’t recall a policy prohibiting high school students from leaving campus.


It got so bad my senior year they put buses blocking the ingress/egress and staffed them


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## gilberte (Sep 25, 2004)

Ah, I'm not that technologically competent, can't find what I want on the Google. So: "Ha ha ha ha ha, hahahahahahahahahahahahahaha. Picture a big woodpecker doing that.


----------



## Danaus29 (Sep 12, 2005)

We weren't allowed to leave school without permission when I was in school. They didn't have a cop try and stop you but they were on the phone to your parents that evening and if you didn't have a legitimate, written excuse when you came back, you got to spend time thinking about your actions after school.


----------



## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

gilberte said:


> Ah, I'm not that technologically competent, can't find what I want on the Google. So: "Ha ha ha ha ha, hahahahahahahahahahahahahaha. Picture a big woodpecker doing that.


----------



## gilberte (Sep 25, 2004)

Thank You!


----------



## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

gilberte said:


> So: "Ha ha ha ha ha, hahahahahahahahahahahahahaha. Picture a big woodpecker doing that.


----------



## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

Too funny


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## Lisa in WA (Oct 11, 2004)

HDRider said:


> It got so bad my senior year they put buses blocking the ingress/egress and staffed them


Kids leaving?
Yes. I should have said they had permission given by their parents at the beginning of the year. Lots of high school students are over 18. Can they even stop them 
?


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

HDRider said:


>


----------



## Lisa in WA (Oct 11, 2004)

Danaus29 said:


> We weren't allowed to leave school without permission when I was in school. They didn't have a cop try and stop you but they were on the phone to your parents that evening and if you didn't have a legitimate, written excuse when you came back, you got to spend time thinking about your actions after school.


which is how it should be handled.


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

Lisa in WA said:


> Kids leaving?
> Yes. I should have said they had permission given by their parents at the beginning of the year. Lots of high school students are over 18. Can they even stop them
> ?


They sure did.

How would they know how old you are unless they stop you?


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## gilberte (Sep 25, 2004)

BFF, Don't often see you beaten to the punch


----------



## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

Lisa in WA said:


> which is how it should be handled.


I think almost all schools have cops there all day now


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

gilberte said:


> BFF, Don't often see you beaten to the punch


I type too slowly. 
It's hard to keep up with HDRider


----------



## gilberte (Sep 25, 2004)

Wonder how much that's costing us in dollars which might otherwise could go to them poor unfortunate homeless folks.


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## Lisa in WA (Oct 11, 2004)

HDRider said:


> I think almost all schools have cops there all day now


My youngest graduated in 2013 but no cops. We did of course have guns on campus in the backs of pickups or when proud student hunters ran by at lunchtime to show off the dead moose in their trucks. 
This student resource officer in the article would have a fit of apoplexy trying to rein that kind of thing in.


----------



## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

https://www.pasco.k12.fl.us/library/student_services/conduct/csc_eng.pdf

"Tardiness and Early Checkout Students need to arrive on time and *stay through dismissal *so they will receive important directions, class instruction and avoid disrupting other students. Parents can set a good example by encouraging students to follow the school’s time schedule and to follow the procedures found in the school handbook. All parents must report to the front office when picking up their child prior to the regular dismissal time."

"level 2 Offence - • *Leaving school grounds without permission* (2J)"

https://safesupportivelearning.ed.g...da School Discipline Laws and Regulations.pdf

"1003.26. Enforcement of school attendance. The Legislature finds that poor academic performance is associated with nonattendance and that school districts must take an active role in promoting and enforcing attendance as a means of improving student performance. *It is the policy of the state that each district school superintendent be responsible for enforcing school attendance of all students subject to the compulsory school age in the school district and supporting enforcement of school attendance by local law enforcement agencies*. "


----------



## Danaus29 (Sep 12, 2005)

https://rrhs.pasco.k12.fl.us/attendance/
http://www.pasco.k12.fl.us/ssps/page/conduct

There ya go. 3 days after an absense to bring the excuse, nothing about not leaving the parking lot. Download the code of conduct in the second link.


----------



## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

Lisa in WA said:


> My youngest graduated in 2013 but no cops. We did of course have guns on campus in the backs of pickups or when proud student hunters ran by at lunchtime to show off the dead moose in their trucks.
> This student resource officer in the article would have a fit of apoplexy trying to rein that kind of thing in.


My little bitty town, population 1,977, has a cop wandering around school grounds.

We have never had any issues. The superintendent teaches my Sunday school class. He says parents expect a cop on campus now.


----------



## gilberte (Sep 25, 2004)

"What? What? Raise your hands in the air now.!" Sorry, I got no Rap experience.


----------



## Lisa in WA (Oct 11, 2004)

HDRider said:


> My little bitty town, population 1,977, has a cop wondering around school grounds.
> 
> We have never had any issues. The superintendent teaches my Sunday school class. He says parents expect a cop on campus now.


We did have a student resource officer but he wasn’t there all the time. He was also the retired sheriff and beloved by all the kids. He treated them respectfully and they mostly treated him the same way. He was tough as nails but a kind man as well.


----------



## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

Lisa in WA said:


> We did have a student resource officer but he wasn’t there all the time. He was also the retired sheriff and beloved by all the kids. He treated them respectfully and they mostly treated him the same way. He was tough as nails but a kind man as well.


Did a kid try to run him down with a truck?


----------



## Lisa in WA (Oct 11, 2004)

HDRider said:


> Did a kid try to run him down with a truck?


we are going to have to agree to disagree about that. I don’t see the kid trying to run anyone down with a truck and you do.


----------



## gilberte (Sep 25, 2004)

HDRider said:


> My little bitty town, population 1,977, has a cop wondering around school grounds.
> 
> We have never had any issues. The superintendent teaches my Sunday school class. He says parents expect a cop on campus now.


 I'm wondering about it to. I know what you meant, remember when we wrote with a pencil or a pen?


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## Alice In TX/MO (May 10, 2002)

In the small town where my sons attended school, the teachers can concealed carry. Many do. 

They have open campus at lunch. 

Larger nearby towns have closed campuses.


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## gilberte (Sep 25, 2004)

I don't really have a problem with teachers packing as long as I'm the one vetting them


----------



## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

Danaus29 said:


> There ya go. 3 days after an absense to bring the excuse


He wasn't absent.
He was trying to leave.


----------



## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

Lisa in WA said:


> we are going to have to agree to disagree about that. I don’t see the kid trying to run anyone down with a truck and you do.


Now take .1 of one second to decide. We both might decide wrong. One lives, one dies.


----------



## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

What children face in school now is different than what we did and generations after that. We know that some schools don't allow students off-campus unless they have permission. Closed campuses are becoming more and more common.

The woman who initially stopped him was a school discipline assistant. Part of her job is to stop students from leaving when they don't have permission to and to follow up on truancy and absences. She is involved in school discipline so she would be aware of this student especially if he was in a special program.

She was doing her job. Not too respectfully but we don't know what the student said or did before the cop got there.


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

Lisa in WA said:


> we are going to have to agree to disagree about that. I don’t see the kid trying to run anyone down with a truck and you do.


And, I am not saying he did. I am simply saying he was a dumb ass for not following the cops instructions.


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## gilberte (Sep 25, 2004)

And his absence will be sorrilly missed. Dang, I tried one r, two l's, ***! Shoulda stayed in school I guess.


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## Lisa in WA (Oct 11, 2004)

HDRider said:


> And, I am not saying he did. I am simply saying he was a dumb ass for not following the cops instructions.


Yep, he was. But he’s also 17 and has some kind of disability. Which is no excuse but makes his dumbass behavior more understandable. The cop and the school employee don’t appear to have those mitigating factors to explain THEIR dumbbass behavior.


----------



## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

Lisa in WA said:


> Yep, he was. But he’s also 17 and has some kind of disability. Which is no excuse but makes his dumbass behavior more understandable. The cop and the school employee don’t appear to have those mitigating factors to explain THEIR dumbbass behavior.


Obviously we are a mile apart. Just wave from you side, and I'll wave back from mine.


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## Lisa in WA (Oct 11, 2004)

HDRider said:


> I will say partisan alignment on this thread has been somewhat unique.


I think partisan alignment and belief tends to be thrown out the window where personal grudges are concerned.


----------



## Lisa in WA (Oct 11, 2004)

HDRider said:


> Obviously we are a mile apart. Just wave from you side, and I'll wave back from mine.


I prefer pea shooters to waving.


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

Lisa in WA said:


> I think partisan alignment and belief tends to be thrown out the window where personal grudges are concerned.


Enemy of my enemy kind of thing


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

Lisa in WA said:


> I prefer pea shooters to waving.


A warrior vulgarian


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## Lisa in WA (Oct 11, 2004)

HDRider said:


> A warrior vulgarian


Pretty much.


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## Danaus29 (Sep 12, 2005)

For gilberte, sorely.

I got sidetracked reading school policy. The kid would have got in really big trouble for calling his mother on a cell phone while in a vehicle. The school has a strict no cell phone while driving policy.



Bearfootfarm said:


> He wasn't absent.
> He was trying to leave.


If he wasn't absent he also wasn't truant. He may have been disrespectful, but so were the deputy and Ms Bonds, in violation of school policy. They were showing more disrespect than the kid.

The kid did not turn his tires toward the deputy until he nearly backed into the other car. Most people don't think well during an adrenaline rush.


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## gilberte (Sep 25, 2004)

That's the problem these days, ain't it? Too many dumb asses. Some don't even understand english. But if I'm facing you in a legitimate confrontation and you do something which I believe to be a threat to my continued existence and you don't understand the words coming out of my mouth, I'm sorry, I'm gonna try to put you down before you can do me.


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## Danaus29 (Sep 12, 2005)

The kicker is the "legitimate confrontation". Was it legitimate or was the school holding him against his will? According to their handbook he was not under the compulsory attendance clause. Even if you disregard the dentist appointment, all it would have taken would be for Ms. Bonds to act like an adult and call the boys mother. There is nothing in their policy addressing students leaving the parking lot, before or during school hours, once they have entered it.

He wasn't really a threat to the officer. He didn't keep edging toward him, he asked the officer to move so he could conduct his business. I know Florida has a stand your ground law that allows a person to stand in front of a car and then shoot the driver for trying to drive around them. Even if the person standing in the road is blocking the only exit route.


----------



## AmericanStand (Jul 29, 2014)

Bearfootfarm said:


> He had a chance to do *as asked* before the video started.
> I see no point in repeating it all yet again when nothing is going to change.


 So have you but you don’t comply either.


----------



## AmericanStand (Jul 29, 2014)

HDRider said:


> I think almost all schools have cops there all day now


You must be from a big city that’s about the only place you ever see them


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## AmericanStand (Jul 29, 2014)

If the kid didn’t have to be there in the first place I don’t think he hast to ask permission to leave


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## AmericanStand (Jul 29, 2014)

As I was asking mule skinner earlier by what right does the school have to take all those children hostage and require they be brought there every day and have to stay there all day?


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## AmericanStand (Jul 29, 2014)

HDRider said:


> Did a kid try to run him down with a truck?


 Wow there should be some sort of award given for the slowest run down ever


----------



## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

AmericanStand said:


> You must be from a big city that’s about the only place you ever see them


You don't read so good do you


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

Danaus29 said:


> If he wasn't absent he also wasn't truant. He may have been disrespectful, but so were the deputy and Ms Bonds, *in violation of school policy*.


You keep saying that but it's not true.
School policy says no one is allowed to leave without permission, and he continually refused to prove to them he had permission. Had he simply done that the first time he was asked, there would have been no problem at all.



Danaus29 said:


> *I know Florida has a stand your ground law that allows a person to stand in front of a car* and then shoot the driver for trying to drive around them. Even if the person standing in the road is blocking the only exit route.


LOL
You can't "know" something that isn't true.
You can only say things you believe even when they are false.


----------



## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

The teen had to be there. He had not filled out paperwork to stop attending classes. Yes someone over 16 can do that and the parents must okay it. Until that paperwork was given and processed he has to obey the school rules. That means no leaving the school without permission. That is why he had to go to the office and phone his mother.
.


----------



## Danaus29 (Sep 12, 2005)

Bearfootfarm said:


> You keep saying that but it's not true.
> School policy says no one is allowed to leave without permission, and he continually refused to prove to them he had permission. Had he simply done that the first time he was asked, there would have been no problem at all.
> 
> 
> ...


Did you read the school policy? It says nothing about leaving.

So you are saying that a person is not allowed to stand in front of a vehicle, blocking their path, refusing to move and then threaten to shoot them?



painterswife said:


> The teen had to be there. He had not filled out paperwork to stop attending classes. Yes someone over 16 can do that and the parents must okay it. Until that paperwork was given and processed he has to obey the school rules. That means no leaving the school without permission. That is why he had to go to the office and phone his mother.
> .


Absences are not unexcused until there is no note sent to the school after 3 days. Medical reasons are excused absences. 
There is no reason Ms Bonds could not make that call herself. She was the one who demanded the appointment be verified.


----------



## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

Danaus29 said:


> Did you read the school policy? It says nothing about leaving.
> 
> So you are saying that a person is not allowed to stand in front of a vehicle, blocking their path, refusing to move and then threaten to shoot them?
> 
> ...


It is right in the handbook. No one already at school is to leave without an authorized excuse before the end of classes. Parents can not even pickup students before the end of classes without going to the office. MS Bonds is not responsible for making the call. It is the parents responsibility and I expect that must be to the office to be recorded.


----------



## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

Danaus29 said:


> Did you read the school policy? It says nothing about leaving.


Yes I read it.
I don't think you did.



Danaus29 said:


> So you are saying that a person is not allowed to stand in front of a vehicle, blocking their path, refusing to move and then threaten to shoot them?


Yes, that's exactly what I said.
You don't seem to understand what "stand your ground" really means.


----------



## AmericanStand (Jul 29, 2014)

HDRider said:


> And, I am not saying he did. I am simply saying he was a dumb ass for not following the cops instructions.


What instructions didn’t he follow ?


----------



## AmericanStand (Jul 29, 2014)

HDRider said:


> Now take .1 of one second to decide. We both might decide wrong. One lives, one dies.


The thing is the cop wasn’t limited to a 10th of a second as slow as that truck was moving he probably had about three minutes


----------



## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

AmericanStand said:


> The thing is the cop wasn’t limited to a 10th of a second as slow as that truck was moving he probably had about three minutes


Unless he slammed on the gas.


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## AmericanStand (Jul 29, 2014)

And then the couple have had plenty of time to get out of the way


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## muleskinner2 (Oct 7, 2007)

AmericanStand said:


> The thing is the cop wasn’t limited to a 10th of a second as slow as that truck was moving he probably had about three minutes


Would you say you could cover twenty one feet faster in a truck, than you could on foot. At twenty one feet a person with a knife can cover the distance and stab you before you can draw a pistol from a duty holster. If a officer is facing a person armed with a knife, at twenty one feet or less. And the person refuses to drop the knife after one warning, you are justified in the use of deadly force. Now, would you say that a truck is at least as deadly as a hand held knife.


----------



## muleskinner2 (Oct 7, 2007)

AmericanStand said:


> And then the couple have had plenty of time to get out of the way


The threat of deadly force does not factor in your ability to get out of the way. And stand your ground laws don't have anything to do with it. Police have always had what is called, "no duty to retreat". That means they are bound by duty to stand, and fight if necessary. I know a deputy who was fired because he backed away from a suspect with a knife. 

If I was a Sheriff or Chief of Police, and one of my officers backed away from a potential fight, they would be suspended on the spot, and fired by the end of the week.


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## AmericanStand (Jul 29, 2014)

Yeah and what would you do if one walk into a bar and started a fight and then hid behind his badge?


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## AmericanStand (Jul 29, 2014)

It sounds from the way you explained it as if a deputy could stand at a aroundabout And pretty well kill everybody in the community justified because they had came at him with a vehicle?


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## wr (Aug 10, 2003)

Bearfootfarm said:


> They can make any claims they want now.
> 
> 
> All the more reason to not call *weeks* in advance.
> ...


I always notified the school as soon as an appointment was made and reminded again the day before but even under those circumstances things got forgotten, appointments were occasionally missed and sometimes the school forgot to mark their calendar and they simply made a phone call. 

Our school board has always had a firm policy in place for appointments or leaving school property. 

When my kids were in school, anyone with appointments, needing to leave school or using alternate transportation at end of day were required to use a sign out sheet. Mistakes happen and students were required to check the sheet before class or at break to ensure the list was correct so the student or office had time to contact a parent and verify the absence. 

The only difference between then and now, is that it's done through parents access through the school's website.


----------



## Redlands Okie (Nov 28, 2017)

Nothing in any of the post above really matter until after the fact. Who was right and who was wrong is not really important. The kid ignored the instructions of a nervous and mad person who had a gun. Lucky to be alive.


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

wr said:


> I always notified the school as soon as an appointment was made and reminded again the day before but even under those circumstances things got forgotten, appointments were occasionally missed and sometimes the school forgot to mark their calendar and they simply made a phone call.
> 
> Our school board has always had a firm policy in place for appointments or leaving school property.
> 
> ...


Our school when give the kids a note regardless how far or how little in advance of the need to leave. The note was available after the reason was submitted.


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## AmericanStand (Jul 29, 2014)

Redlands Okie said:


> Nothing in any of the post above really matter until after the fact. Who was right and who was wrong is not really important. The kid ignored the instructions of a nervous and mad person who had a gun. Lucky to be alive.


 Just exactly what instruction did he ignore ?


----------



## AmericanStand (Jul 29, 2014)

Redlands Okie said:


> Nothing in any of the post above really matter until after the fact. Who was right and who was wrong is not really important. The kid ignored the instructions of a nervous and mad person who had a gun. Lucky to be alive.


 Doesn’t it seem off to you that you are describing a well trained well experienced professional as nervous about doing his job?
If we didn’t know this guy was a cop we would probably describe him as a hopped up meth head.


----------



## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

wr said:


> When my kids were in school, anyone with appointments, needing to leave school or using alternate transportation at end of day were *required to use a sign out sheet*.


That's how it was when my daughter was in school.
Those were the pre-cell phone days though.


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## Witch's Broom (Dec 23, 2017)

gilberte said:


> That's the problem these days, ain't it? Too many dumb asses. Some don't even understand english. But if I'm facing you in a legitimate confrontation and you do something which I believe to be a threat to my continued existence and you don't understand the words coming out of my mouth, I'm sorry,* I'm gonna try to put you down before you can do me*.


I agree, if you're a snowflake officer, shoot first, and ask questions later, even for something as petty as trumped-up truancy violations, then go home, look yourself in the mirror, and tell yourself, _job well done_.

As a snowflake, if you're absent-minded enough to place yourself in harms-way in front of, or within the danger zone of a vehicle (for no good reason, just as this case reflects), you deserve to be run over, and with any luck, the individual behind the wheel will not only roll over you in forward gear, they'll put the vehicle in reverse gear and do it again to make sure the job is done.


----------



## AmericanStand (Jul 29, 2014)

painterswife said:


> The teen had to be there. He had not filled out paperwork to stop attending classes. Yes someone over 16 can do that and the parents must okay it. Until that paperwork was given and processed he has to obey the school rules. That means no leaving the school without permission. That is why he had to go to the office and phone his mother.
> .


 Thank you for clearing that up. 
I never would’ve thought such a stupid policy would exist. 
that explains a lot.


----------



## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

AmericanStand said:


> Thank you for clearing that up.
> I never would’ve thought such a stupid policy would exist.
> that explains a lot.


Why would it be stupid? The point is to keep people in school and to not let them leave unless the parents have given permission. This teen was already in a special education program and likely being monitored already. For whatever reason, permission to leave the school for his appointment was not on file in the office and that needed to be rectified.

Schools are responsible for students from the moment they enter school grounds. Every single student and parent get a school handbook and must agree to the rules before they attend school.

It is important in emergencies for the school to know who is in attendance and who is not. Rules like this are to ensure they have the information they need.


----------



## Witch's Broom (Dec 23, 2017)

AmericanStand said:


> Thank you for clearing that up.
> *I never would’ve thought such a stupid policy would exist*.
> that explains a lot.


I couldn't have said it better!


----------



## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

Witch's Broom said:


> I agree, if you're a snowflake officer, *shoot first, and ask questions later, even for something as petty as trumped-up truancy violations*, then go home, look yourself in the mirror, and tell yourself, _job well done_.


That's not really an accurate description of what took place.

No one was shot, no guns were even drawn.
Nothing was "trumped up".

All the student had to do was *prove* he had permission to leave.


----------



## Witch's Broom (Dec 23, 2017)

Bearfootfarm said:


> That's not really an accurate description of what took place.
> 
> No one was shot, no guns were even drawn.
> Nothing was "trumped up".
> ...


You'd make for a great nanny!

Bottom line, we live in a nanny-controlled society today, and the more people that buy into nanny nonsense, the more we will see of these types of interactions and escalations.


----------



## Witch's Broom (Dec 23, 2017)

Next nanny school policy, officers at the doorways of school washrooms, because we have to ensure that Johnny and Jill, really do have to use the bathroom, and you had better have a note from your mommy or daddy stating so, otherwise you can't use the facilities.


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

Witch's Broom said:


> Next nanny school policy, officers at the doorways of school washrooms, because we have to ensure that Johnny and Jill, really do have to use the bathroom, and you had better have a note from your mommy or daddy stating so, otherwise you can't use the facilities.


Did you even go to school? You have to have a note or a pass for everywhere you go when not in class.


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## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

HDRider said:


> Did you even go to school? You have to have a note or a pass for everywhere you go when not in class.


I don't believe it is nanny school policy for the school to control who is and is not in classes. I however never had to have a note for school absences ( back in the day). I went to school when I wanted and left when I wanted. They only became concerned if you missed lots of time. Skipping school was way to easy back then. We did not even need a note to go to the washroom, though we had to ask. Of course that was the 70's and so much has changed since then.

Discipline back then was the vice principal in an on the floor fistfight with a student.  In grade 12, all my classes were done by noon.


----------



## Alice In TX/MO (May 10, 2002)

Just because he has an IEP does NOT mean he was in a Special Ed room. In my experience, most students with IEPs are mainstreamed. They attend class with the other students and only to to the Special Ed department as necessary to get assistance with some assignments.


----------



## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

Alice In TX/MO said:


> Just because he has an IEP does NOT mean he was in a Special Ed room. In my experience, most students with IEPs are mainstreamed.


True I should have said IEP. My bad.


----------



## AmericanStand (Jul 29, 2014)

HDRider said:


> Did you even go to school? You have to have a note or a pass for everywhere you go when not in class.


Ummmm no
You just have to have the guts to act like a adult and treat others the same.


----------



## wr (Aug 10, 2003)

Witch's Broom said:


> You'd make for a great nanny!
> 
> Bottom line, we live in a nanny-controlled society today, and the more people that buy into nanny nonsense, the more we will see of these types of interactions and escalations.


I'm going to have to disagree. There is some solid reasoning behind knowing if students are in school or elsewhere. 

There have been numerous occasions when schools have been evacuated and it would be a shame if someone died while searching for a little monster who was drinking a latte at Starbucks and it would be a greater shame if a student were left behind in the event of a tragedy.

I had one that wasn't fond of the idea of attending class and as an adult, he seems fairly grateful that the school and I didn't allow him to come and go as he felt the need. 

Rules have never hurt kids and I'm of the opinion that students had a bit more structure, there would be a lot more productive adults out there. I'm pretty sure that allowing kids to attend or refuse to attend class as they see fit seems like a poor idea. 

I would certainly agree that the situation spun out of control very quickly but I have questions about events leading up to that point. It's easy to assume everybody is picking on an innocent young man but I'm left to wonder what other interactions have happened and what led up to the point where things were being recorded.


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## muleskinner2 (Oct 7, 2007)

AmericanStand said:


> It sounds from the way you explained it as if a deputy could stand at a aroundabout And pretty well kill everybody in the community justified because they had came at him with a vehicle?


It only apply's if they are in the performance of a lawful duty.


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## muleskinner2 (Oct 7, 2007)

Witch's Broom said:


> Bottom line, we live in a nanny-controlled society today, and the more people that buy into nanny nonsense, the more we will see of these types of interactions and escalations.


Yep.


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## AmericanStand (Jul 29, 2014)

muleskinner2 said:


> It only apply's if they are in the performance of a lawful duty.


 Like directing traffic?


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

Witch's Broom said:


> Bottom line, we live in a nanny-controlled society today, and the more people that buy into nanny nonsense, the more we will see of these types of interactions and escalations.


It's simply the facts without all the emotional hype.


----------



## Danaus29 (Sep 12, 2005)

Bearfootfarm said:


> Yes I read it.
> I don't think you did.
> 
> 
> ...


I should have put the (sarcasm) note in after the stand your ground comment. Stand your ground never applies to police and those laws work only as well as the prosecutor in charge of the case, or the jury voting on it.

The policy covers leaving early. Not dropping off another student before school starts, on your way to an appointment. Once attendance is taken and the students are verified to be in school the school is responsible for them.

The kid did have an excused absence. His mother has stated she notified the school. Shame on them both for assuming school personnel actually did their job. Why did Ms Bonds not check with the office or his mother herself? She had the equipment to do that. She didn't trust him enough to believe he would return with a note from the doctor, why would she believe him if he came back and said he had an excuse?


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

Danaus29 said:


> Stand your ground never applies to police and those laws work only as well as the prosecutor in charge of the case, or the jury voting on it.


The same laws apply to everyone.



Danaus29 said:


> The policy covers leaving early.


That's what he was doing.
He was there, trying to leave.



Danaus29 said:


> The kid did have an excused absence.


Why keep repeating everything?
Nothing will change.


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## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

Danaus29 said:


> I should have put the (sarcasm) note in after the stand your ground comment. Stand your ground never applies to police and those laws work only as well as the prosecutor in charge of the case, or the jury voting on it.
> 
> The policy covers leaving early. Not dropping off another student before school starts, on your way to an appointment. Once attendance is taken and the students are verified to be in school the school is responsible for them.
> 
> The kid did have an excused absence. His mother has stated she notified the school. Shame on them both for assuming school personnel actually did their job. Why did Ms Bonds not check with the office or his mother herself? She had the equipment to do that. She didn't trust him enough to believe he would return with a note from the doctor, why would she believe him if he came back and said he had an excuse?


Maybe the mother had not called. Maybe it did not get recorded at the office. Either way, you have no knowledge of what was done before the camera went on. She may have radioed the office and they have no record of it. Maybe that is why the student was required to go to the office.

Bottom line you are making accusations about things you have no knowledge about. Your opinion is based on your assumption s not real facts.


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## muleskinner2 (Oct 7, 2007)

AmericanStand said:


> Like directing traffic?


Yes. When a traffic cop holds up their hand and blows their whistle it means stop, not speed up and get through the intersection. I once put a maglight trough a windshield when a driver ignored a signal to stop, and nearly ran me over.


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## AmericanStand (Jul 29, 2014)

You do see how absurd that is ?
I’m sure it’s one of those things That makes sense when applied to a reasonable man. 
But is soon as you hire an officer like the one in the video all that goes out the window


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## muleskinner2 (Oct 7, 2007)

AmericanStand said:


> You do see how absurd that is ?
> I’m sure it’s one of those things That makes sense when applied to a reasonable man.
> But is soon as you hire an officer like the one in the video all that goes out the window


You don't hire good officers, you train them. And then over time you weed out the bad ones. There is no huge pool of good people to hire from. There are just people, like you or me, or anybody else. It takes five to seven years to make a good officer. I have been through the process, and I can tell you that for the first three or four years you are just stumbling along. And then at about five years you finally start to feel like you know what you are doing. And then at ten years you may actually know what you are doing. At seventeen years I was just starting to get the hang of it. Then I told a new Sheriff that I had boots that had been in law enforcement longer than he had. Not one of my best ideas.


----------



## Danaus29 (Sep 12, 2005)

Bearfootfarm said:


> The same laws apply to everyone.
> 
> 
> That's what he was doing.
> ...


The laws do not apply equally to everyone. 

As for your last comment, I agree. You can't change what happened. I wish the kid all the best at his new school and hope he and his mother learned something.


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## Danaus29 (Sep 12, 2005)

muleskinner2 said:


> Yes. When a traffic cop holds up their hand and blows their whistle it means stop, not speed up and get through the intersection. I once put a maglight trough a windshield when a driver ignored a signal to stop, and nearly ran me over.


I'm glad they didn't hit you. A maglight is great for getting your point across.


----------



## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

Danaus29 said:


> I wish the kid all the best at his new school and *hope he and his mother learned something*.


I hope they did too, but I doubt it.


----------



## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

Lisa in WA said:


> SHE shouldn’t make assumptions?
> Your post is one assumption after another.
> Good Lord.


I have been very up front where I have assumed and provide links and quotes when I provided proof. Even when I disputed what she\he stated.


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## Hiro (Feb 14, 2016)

When you turn your children over to be educated by the government, they are subject to their rules and their bureaucracy.


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## Danaus29 (Sep 12, 2005)

SHE

My _opinion _about the mother calling was based on the mothers statements to the news outlets. My _opinion_ of Ms Bond not calling herself was supported by the video. While it is my opinion that the whole thing could have been avoided if Ms Bond had just called herself, is an opinion.

eta, corrected spelling error


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## AmericanStand (Jul 29, 2014)

muleskinner2 said:


> You don't hire good officers, you train them. And then over time you weed out the bad ones. There is no huge pool of good people to hire from. There are just people, like you or me, or anybody else. It takes five to seven years to make a good officer. I have been through the process, and I can tell you that for the first three or four years you are just stumbling along. And then at about five years you finally start to feel like you know what you are doing. And then at ten years you may actually know what you are doing. At seventeen years I was just starting to get the hang of it. Then I told a new Sheriff that I had boots that had been in law enforcement longer than he had. Not one of my best ideas.


lol we all have off days
.
Kinda the point of this thread

Hopefully neither one of you had to shoot the other.


----------



## Alice In TX/MO (May 10, 2002)

Not yet.


----------



## gilberte (Sep 25, 2004)

Danaus29 said:


> I'm glad they didn't hit you. A maglight is great for getting your point across.


 Still got mine. Got a lot of dings and dents in it with a story behind most of them


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## Witch's Broom (Dec 23, 2017)

wr said:


> I'm going to have to disagree. *There is some solid reasoning behind knowing if students are in school or elsewhere.*
> 
> There have been numerous occasions when schools have been evacuated and it would be a shame if someone died while searching for a little monster who was drinking a latte at Starbucks and it would be a greater shame if a student were left behind in the event of a tragedy.
> 
> ...


Not going to disagree with anyone related to the case of knowing where students are, but if such rules and guidelines are going to be implemented and a structure built around that process, then schools in question had better darned well step up to the plate and do their do diligence to ensure everyone involved is up to speed on absences and/or calls or notes from parents related to, and that starts with people at the top, _not the bottom_.

Qualified, responsible individuals to oversee such requirements, that's what's needed, unlike the sub-standard, incompetent crowd the school currently has in place.


----------



## Witch's Broom (Dec 23, 2017)

HDRider said:


> Did you even go to school? You have to have a note or a pass for everywhere you go when not in class.


ROFLMAO! NOT! Not in my day, and not in my children's school days either. Never heard of anything so asinine and juvenile.


----------



## wr (Aug 10, 2003)

Witch's Broom said:


> Not going to disagree with anyone related to the case of knowing where students are, but if such rules and guidelines are going to be implemented and a structure built around that process, then schools in question had better darned well step up to the plate and do their do diligence to ensure everyone involved is up to speed on absences and/or calls or notes from parents related to, and that starts with people at the top, not the bottom.
> 
> Qualified, responsible individuals to oversee such requirements, that's what's needed, unlike the sub-standard crowd the school in question has in place.


I don't disagree but I've worked in business for too long to believe that any mortal has never made a mistake. 

My community is small and I believe the High School has just over 1500 students from town and surrounding areas. That's a lot of information to stay on top of and that includes parents who feel short notice is fine, notify months in advance, some who forget to notify the school at all and others who feel it's the school's job to raise their kids.

It's easy to judge a whole school by a portion of one incident but there are a lot of facts missing and nothing indicates this is this is an example how day to day operations are handled.


----------



## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

Witch's Broom said:


> *Never heard of* anything so asinine and juvenile.


You've never heard of a "hall pass" or "hall monitors"?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hall_monitor


> While specific duties vary between establishments, hall monitors typically check hall passes; maintain overall good conduct in the corridors; and ensure that students are punctual in attending classes. Hall monitors may also be posted to a school's doors in order to prevent unauthorized entry during recess, in which case they may be known as _door monitors_.
> In Ontario, Canada, Hall Monitors (if present at all) are not student volunteers, but actual paid security guards who patrol corridors and maintain security within a secondary school. There may be 1-4 hall monitors depending on the size of the secondary school.





> *hall pass*
> [ hawl pas ]
> 
> *WHAT DOES HALL PASS MEAN?*
> A _hall pass_ is a note or other object that gives a student permission to walk through the halls of a school unsupervised, usually for a specific purpose, like going to the bathroom or the nurse's office.


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## wr (Aug 10, 2003)

Witch's Broom said:


> ROFLMAO! NOT! Not in my day, and not in my children's school days either. Never heard of anything so asinine and juvenile.


Back when we went to school, we were disciplined for skipping class at school and at home, teachers weren't considered babysitters and we showed some respect for them. We also didn't have too school shootings, non custodial parents kidnapping kids, drugs in schools, students dealing drugs, sexually active students and frivolous lawsuits. 

I have a friend who's raising her step grandkids, who were all born using crack or meth. One child has been kicked out of all but one school in the county by the time he was in 3rd grade for frightening acts of violence. Before junior high, he'd beaten a teacher with a hockey stick (she dared to try and enforce the no hockey in phys ed rule), broke one student's arm (because he felt like it), sent another to hospital for stitches and ripped a huge chunk of hair from the office administrator's head because Grammy didn't get lunch to school when he wanted it. He's bigger and stronger now that he's in high school and Grammy seems to think it's the school's job to get him to take his meds that he won't take for her. He seems to feel he can sell them for supplemental cash. Grammy and her team of psychologists also believe that when he goes into a rage, he should be left to rage and they threatened to sue the school for calling the RCMP when he destroyed a classroom.

His brother has a habit of setting fires or sexually molesting much younger girls and Grammy and his team of psychologists believe that students or their parents should not be warned because someone may harm him. 

Four students recently overdosed at lunch on oxy, three recovered but one died. Guess who was expected to answer how they came to have the drugs and why they weren't better supervised? No fingers are being pointed at parents or those who feel searching lockers for drugs is unfair. 

If the school system is left to deal with this level of dysfunction, I really can't think of many other way to keep other students safe and provide an education for those who want it.


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## muleskinner2 (Oct 7, 2007)

Natural selection keeps trying to weed them out, and we make excuses for them and then hide what they do.


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## Alice In TX/MO (May 10, 2002)

Witches Broom. EVERY public school I attended or taught in used hall passes. 
I started first grade in 1961 and left the teaching profession in 2004, so that is a substantial sampling.


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## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

I don't believe she is lying. We never had hall monitors.


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## Lisa in WA (Oct 11, 2004)

We didn’t have hall monitors in high school either. My high school in Massachusetts required passes but the ones in Georgia and Pennsylvania didn’t use passes. You asked to go to the rest room, etc. and the teacher would or wouldn’t let you go.


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## wr (Aug 10, 2003)

painterswife said:


> I don't believe she is lying. We never had hall monitors.


We never had them either but I've long since been aware that many schools use them. I'd certainly never accuse someone of dishonesty but I'd be surprised if someone made it to my age and had never heard of such a thing.


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## no really (Aug 7, 2013)

Went to a small school, we had hall monitors and passes. Lunch we could leave without passes, school didn't have a cafeteria and some kids went home to eat.


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## AmericanStand (Jul 29, 2014)

Bearfootfarm said:


> You've never heard of a "hall pass" or "hall monitors"?
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hall_monitor


I thought that was just on TV


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## AmericanStand (Jul 29, 2014)

Lisa in WA said:


> You asked to go to the rest room, etc. and the teacher would or wouldn’t let you go.


 I think I may regret asking But what did you do if she said no?


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## Danaus29 (Sep 12, 2005)

I went to 3 schools, 2 districts and never had to have a pass or saw a hall monitor. At the schools my kids attended students did not need a hall pass and they did not have hall monitors. The school where my step-sister teaches does not use hall passes or monitors.

I also thought they were just a tv show thing.



AmericanStand said:


> I think I may regret asking But what did you do if she said no?


I had a teacher say no once. Not going to say what I did but I was only 6 and really had to go. Like the word "NO" can cure a full bladder.


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## Danaus29 (Sep 12, 2005)

gilberte said:


> Still got mine. Got a lot of dings and dents in it with a story behind most of them


Dents and dings in mine are from tossing it in the air and trying to catch it. Dropping it would blow the old bulbs so mine never worked very long. I think Batteries Plus still carries LED conversion kits.


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## muleskinner2 (Oct 7, 2007)

Danaus29 said:


> Dents and dings in mine are from tossing it in the air and trying to catch it. Dropping it would blow the old bulbs so mine never worked very long. I think Batteries Plus still carries LED conversion kits.


I still have the first one I ever purchased, but the batteries have corroded so bad I can't get them out.


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## Danaus29 (Sep 12, 2005)

Coke breaks up the corrosion enough to remove the batteries but it also eats up the contacts.


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## gilberte (Sep 25, 2004)

I was having a problem with mine a couple years ago and contacted the company. They installed a new fangled switch which allows it to turn on/off, go to a lower light setting, and flash on and off. Didn't charge me a dime.


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## Witch's Broom (Dec 23, 2017)

Alice In TX/MO said:


> Witches Broom. EVERY public school I attended or taught in used hall passes.
> I started first grade in 1961 and left the teaching profession in 2004, so that is a substantial sampling.


Difference between Canada and the US?


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## Alice In TX/MO (May 10, 2002)

Aha. Could be.


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## gleepish (Mar 10, 2003)

We didn't have hall monitors, we did have hired, armed security (1985-1989) basically cops that were moonlighting. Student population of just over 2,000 for all 4 grades. Parental phone calls were no longer accepted during my freshman year. That may have been because kids were great at using the payphone in the gym to call themselves in--not that I knew anything about that. So even if Mom called in and said I had an excuse, school rules said I had to have a note. And yes, if you were caught trying to leave campus without a note you were held until a parent could be contacted, or you went back to class (more often than not with a detention). Generally you would be caught at a door, but I'm sure a few were caught in the parking lot. Of course, we didn't carry cell phones and we weren't given the option to call our own parents.


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## Witch's Broom (Dec 23, 2017)

Bearfootfarm said:


> You've never heard of a "hall pass" or "hall monitors"?
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hall_monitor


Yes, that is right (for the second time now). If hall passes and/or hall monitors never applied back in my school days, nor my children's school days, why now would I be aware of such applying?

Incorporating Provinces into your argument is a dead issue, as we have always resided in a small community, and statistically, things are done different in rural or small town settings.


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## Witch's Broom (Dec 23, 2017)

painterswife said:


> *I don't believe she is lying*. We never had hall monitors.


Could you have been anymore pointed in your wording?


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## muleskinner2 (Oct 7, 2007)

Give it a rest people, that kid is probably over his suspension by now, and getting into new trouble.


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## Danaus29 (Sep 12, 2005)

I forgot about the vocational school which housed students from a dozen districts. No hall monitors or passes needed there either. Bathrooms were a long long walk from where my classrooms were.


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## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

Witch's Broom said:


> Could you have been anymore pointed in your wording?


Do you have a problem with my post?


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## Danaus29 (Sep 12, 2005)

Witch's Broom said:


> Could you have been anymore pointed in your wording?


Refering to a post which has been deleted.


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## Witch's Broom (Dec 23, 2017)

wr said:


> We never had them either but I've long since been aware that many schools use them. *I'd certainly never accuse someone of dishonesty but I'd be surprised if someone made it to my age and had never heard of such a thing*.


Then be surprised.

The manner in which you structured your wording, suggests dishonesty on my part, regardless of your intent (or lack thereof) to accuse, and that's a shame.


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## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

Danaus29 said:


> Refering to a post which has been deleted.


Thanks, I did not know the post I responded to was deleted.


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## Danaus29 (Sep 12, 2005)

Maybe hall passes and monitors are a regional thing.


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## Danaus29 (Sep 12, 2005)

Just how rough were the schools some of you attended? My cousins school didn't have armed guards when desegragation bussing was started and the school had daily fist and knife fights.


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## gleepish (Mar 10, 2003)

Danaus29 said:


> Just how rough were the schools some of you attended? My cousins school didn't have armed guards when desegragation bussing was started and the school had daily fist and knife fights.


I went to one of the top school districts in St. Louis County. Or, at least, that's what people say. I always wondered how they came to that conclusion--it definitely wasn't from looking at the drug use, pregnancy, truant, or drop out rates, that's for sure. I think it had so much more to do with how much money was in the area than any true indication of the district. Back then anyway, things may have changed over the years.


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## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

Witches Broom

FYI, someone accused you of lying. I defended you. WR was commenting but not really about lying.


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## AmericanStand (Jul 29, 2014)

Alice In TX/MO said:


> Witches Broom. EVERY public school I attended or taught in used hall passes.
> I started first grade in 1961 and left the teaching profession in 2004, so that is a substantial sampling.


 lol we are going to need a resume to know if that means anything. 
You could be teaching at the school you attended 
Total experience just one school!
Isn’t it uncommon to teach at more than one due to tenure and retirement ?

I when to 13 schools before getting my HS diploma


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

Witch's Broom said:


> If hall passes and/or hall monitors never applied back in my school days, nor my children's school days, *why now would I be aware of such applying?*


Because the majority of people have at least heard of those things even if they never experienced them.


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## AmericanStand (Jul 29, 2014)

What makes you think that ?
Got a link ?


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## GunMonkeyIntl (May 13, 2013)

Boom!


----------



## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)




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## Danaus29 (Sep 12, 2005)

Yep! The board of education was still liberally applied when I was in high school, except to girls. We just got detention.


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## Alice In TX/MO (May 10, 2002)

I thought most of y’all had good memories. 

I grew up in Austin. My graduating class had 660. 

I taught in a tiny rural school in an oilfield and agricultural area between Houston and Corpus Christi. We graduated less than 25 students most years. 

Big school or small school - hall passes required.


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## Danaus29 (Sep 12, 2005)

Where I went to middle then high school the administrators were never in the halls unless they had to go somewhere else in the school. I knew kids that skipped entire classes by wandering the halls during the class. I skipped part of a few classes that way. The only people around were kids that got into trouble and were sent to sit in the hall to think about what they had done.

Were your hall monitors adults or students?


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## AmericanStand (Jul 29, 2014)

Alice In TX/MO said:


> I taught in a tiny rural school in an oilfield and agricultural area between Houston and Corpus Christi. We graduated less than 25 students most years.


 Lol come on did you even have a Hall ?

Seriously you only went to one school?
Wow that would have been my dream.


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## Alice In TX/MO (May 10, 2002)

Seriously. 

Austin ISD. Gullet Elementary. Lamar Junior High. McCallum High. 

Many of my current friends are folks I have known since elementary school. 

Those schools were all within a few miles of each other. 

i taught at Louise ISD. That district is pre-K through 12 on one large city block. Football and baseball fields on the adjacent block. 

When they had hall monitors, they were adults, but most of the time there were not paid monitors. 

This discussion caused me to dream that I was at a high school reunion. I saw folks that I haven’t thought about in a long time.


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## Alice In TX/MO (May 10, 2002)

Some of the students I taught stay in touch.  Life long friendships.


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## AmericanStand (Jul 29, 2014)

Wow that’s the dream life for a army brat. 
I was talking about this with my mom and she reminded me I went to 3 schools before I went to school
That I didn’t go to kindergarten 
And in second grade I went to 3 schools in one year. Ugh

She doesn’t remember any absence notes
Heck my Senior year I left school in March returned the day of my graduation rehearsal and discovered they hadn’t missed me so I got to go ahead and walk with the rest of my class and I found out later on they gave me credit for all the classes that I didn’t take my fourth quarter. 
school sizes from 12 to 5000 from very rural to inner city .

MY POOR SON !
Talking to my wife last night I found out the school he attends requires absence notes. 
Again I thought those were just a TV thing. all those times I’ve gave him a ride to school and his mom said that he needed one I thought she was joking.


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## AmericanStand (Jul 29, 2014)

Oh I’ve never seen one of my teachers again after the last day of class. 
With my kids totally different, I was present for the birth of one of my sons and granddaughters teachers


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## Witch's Broom (Dec 23, 2017)

Bearfootfarm said:


> View attachment 83686


Sure do remember! Never did agree with schools being granted authority to discipline students, however, a call from the school when my kids were younger automatically meant a spanking was waiting for them when they arrived home from school.


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## gleepish (Mar 10, 2003)

Witch's Broom said:


> Sure do remember! Never did agree with schools being granted authority to discipline students, however, a call from the school when my kids were younger automatically meant a spanking was waiting for them when they arrived home from school.


Generally a phone call home from my school--in elementary--meant I'd be getting two. One from the principle and one from Mom to look forward to for the rest of the day!


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## Witch's Broom (Dec 23, 2017)

gleepish said:


> Generally a phone call home from my school--in elementary--meant I'd be getting two. One from the principle and one from Mom to look forward to for the rest of the day!


Oh yes, had I gotten the paddle when I was in school, the same would have been awaiting me as well.


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## AmericanStand (Jul 29, 2014)

I was never spanked for anything I actually did .
And I sure wasn’t going to let them spank me for something I didn’t do.


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## AmericanStand (Jul 29, 2014)

The truth of the matter was the school was never bright enough to figure out how to punish me. 
A call to mom would have changed that , she would have told them to take my books away and Have dad beat my butt.


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## Witch's Broom (Dec 23, 2017)

AmericanStand said:


> The truth of the matter was the school was never bright enough to figure out how to punish me.
> A call to mom would have changed that , she would have told them to take my books away and Have dad beat my butt.


LOL! Now that's what I call having the upper-hand on the system!


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## Redlands Okie (Nov 28, 2017)

Kind of interesting how people do not want their kids to be disciplined for misbehaving in school. Then when the kids become adults no one understands why they have problems at work or with the legal system.


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## Alice In TX/MO (May 10, 2002)

Oh, yeah, retired teachers understand.


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## gleepish (Mar 10, 2003)

Redlands Okie said:


> Kind of interesting how people do not want their kids to be disciplined for misbehaving in school. Then when the kids become adults no one understands why they have problems at work or with the legal system.


I did spank my children and to this day (my youngest is 27) I hold the accountable for their actions. However, I did have a problem with someone I really didn't know spanking my children and did not sign the papers that would allow the school to spank them.


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## AmericanStand (Jul 29, 2014)

Redlands Okie said:


> Kind of interesting how people do not want their kids to be disciplined for misbehaving in school. Then when the kids become adults no one understands why they have problems at work or with the legal system.


 I have no problem with holding my kids accountable. 
But my experience taught me teachers can’t be trusted.


----------



## Alice In TX/MO (May 10, 2002)

AS, as a teacher, I would say about 50% can be trusted. 

I only knew one administrator that I could trust.


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## Witch's Broom (Dec 23, 2017)

Redlands Okie said:


> Kind of interesting how people do not want their kids to be disciplined for misbehaving in school. Then when the kids become adults no one understands why they have problems at work or with the legal system.


Directed, guided, disciplined... I'm fine with all three, however, _punishment, as in corporal punishment, _well now, we're talking a whole other thing, and as far as I'm concerned, the doling-out of corporal punishment in school settings has no place in society. That's my job as a parent to oversee, not some out of control, power-hungry, twisted individual.


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## AmericanStand (Jul 29, 2014)

I don’t think the power hungry go into teaching , BUT I think a lot of frustrated come out.


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## muleskinner2 (Oct 7, 2007)

Witch's Broom said:


> Directed, guided, disciplined... I'm fine with all three, however, _punishment, as in corporal punishment, _well now, we're talking a whole other thing, and as far as I'm concerned, the doling-out of corporal punishment in school settings has no place in society. That's my job as a parent to oversee, not some out of control, power-hungry, twisted individual.



So, just to be clear, you don't like cops or teachers.


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## Witch's Broom (Dec 23, 2017)

Alice In TX/MO said:


> AS, as a teacher, I would say about 50% can be trusted.
> 
> I only knew one administrator that I could trust.


Which is exactly why I am dead-set against any school system being afforded the right to apply corporal punishment at their discretion.

When my children were little (babies/toddlers), I wouldn't have dreamed of hiring a babysitter for them that I didn't trust 100%, and the same should hold true (and be the guiding standard) when it comes to corporal punishment in schools.


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## Witch's Broom (Dec 23, 2017)

muleskinner2 said:


> So, just to be clear, you don't like cops or teachers.


Come now, I expect more out you than that.


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## muleskinner2 (Oct 7, 2007)

Witch's Broom said:


> Come now, I expect more out you than that.


I am just curious, what part of Disney Land do you live in, where everybody is perfect?


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## Witch's Broom (Dec 23, 2017)

muleskinner2 said:


> I am just curious, what part of Disney Land do you live in, where everybody is perfect?


When it comes to the health and safety of our children, Disney Land doesn't apply.

I encourage those like you to stay on the Yellow Brick Road, and for those like myself who don't buy in sucker-ville, I'm going to be my own person and blaze my own trail.

Last time I checked, there were no laws that bind me to trust or like anybody, and from all that I see in today's day and age, it's going to remain that way.


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## muleskinner2 (Oct 7, 2007)

Witch's Broom said:


> Last time I checked, there were no laws that bind me to trust or like anybody, and from all that I see in today's day and age, it's going to remain that way.


Good point.


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## SLFarmMI (Feb 21, 2013)

Witch's Broom said:


> Which is exactly why I am dead-set against any school system being afforded the right to apply corporal punishment at their discretion.
> 
> When my children were little (babies/toddlers), I wouldn't have dreamed of hiring a babysitter for them that I didn't trust 100%, and the same should hold true (and be the guiding standard) when it comes to corporal punishment in schools.


As a teacher, I don’t want to be applying corporal punishment to any child in my school. That’s not my role and I don’t want it to become my role. That job belongs to the parents. 

I would, however, like it if parents would actually parent their children. Teach them to be respectful. Teach them to be responsible. Teach them to follow directions.


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## Witch's Broom (Dec 23, 2017)

SLFarmMI said:


> As a teacher, I don’t want to be applying corporal punishment to any child in my school. That’s not my role and I don’t want it to become my role. That job belongs to the parents.
> 
> I would, however, like it if parents would actually parent their children. Teach them to be respectful. Teach them to be responsible. Teach them to follow directions.


I'm of the same mindset as you, couldn't agree more, and I wouldn't have any part of it either.

My husband has arrived home from work at day's end with many-an office story to share over the years, and the ones that resonate the most with me, are the ones that pertain to wives at home crying over the telephone that they need help controlling so and so (as in younger children). I think, sheesh, what has our world come to.

I attribute much of those stories to an overall lack of proper discipline and punishment in homes today.


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## SLFarmMI (Feb 21, 2013)

Witch's Broom said:


> I'm of the same mindset as you, couldn't agree more, and I wouldn't have any part of it either.
> 
> My husband has arrived home from work at day's end with many-an office story to share over the years, and the ones that resonate the most with me, are the ones that pertain to wives at home crying over the telephone that they need help controlling so and so (as in younger children). I think, sheesh, what has our world come to.
> 
> I attribute much of those stories to an overall lack of proper discipline and punishment in homes today.


I don’t disagree. I would also like to add that we citizens need to put pressure on the politicians to give schools and teachers some of our power to implement consequences for poor behavior. Right now, thanks to the politicians, we have almost none.


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## Witch's Broom (Dec 23, 2017)

SLFarmMI said:


> I don’t disagree. I would also like to add that we citizens need to put pressure on the politicians to give schools and teachers some of our power to implement consequences for poor behavior. Right now, thanks to the politicians, we have almost none.


Yes, absolutely. I definitely see a correlation between today's ill-behaviour, matched with an overall lack of justified authority, there's an imbalance for sure, and that needs to change.


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## SLFarmMI (Feb 21, 2013)

Witch's Broom said:


> Yes, absolutely. I definitely see a correlation between today's ill-behaviour, matched with an overall lack of justified authority, there's an imbalance for sure, and that needs to change.


Yep, seriously almost quit my job on Thursday. Not because of my students. It’s never my students. Mine are respectful (though they can get sassy on occasion and need to be snapped back into line) and follow directions.


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## Witch's Broom (Dec 23, 2017)

SLFarmMI said:


> Yep, seriously almost quit my job on Thursday. Not because of my students. It’s never my students. Mine are respectful (though they can get sassy on occasion and need to be snapped back into line) and follow directions.


Perseverance can be a challenging thing, but try and hang in there, and with any luck, hopefully you don't have long to go before you can taste retirement freedom. Will be thinking of you.


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## SLFarmMI (Feb 21, 2013)

Witch's Broom said:


> Perseverance can be a challenging thing, but try and hang in there, and with any luck, hopefully you don't have long to go before you can taste retirement freedom. Will be thinking of you.


Thanks. It’s especially challenging right now because I am typing this with a broken wrist caused by an unruly student (not one of mine) tripping me and I have no recourse other than looking for another job which I am currently doing. So, I appreciate the good thoughts more than you know.


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## Witch's Broom (Dec 23, 2017)

SLFarmMI said:


> Thanks. It’s especially challenging right now because I am typing this with a broken wrist caused by an unruly student (not one of mine) tripping me and I have no recourse other than looking for another job which I am currently doing. So, I appreciate the good thoughts more than you know.


Positive thoughts and well wishes to you for a speedy recovery.

I remember an elementary school teacher telling us a story related to tripping, and how a student tripped a teacher, resulting in the teacher being crippled for life, so the teacher was always adamant about us kids keeping our feet under our desks.


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

SLFarmMI said:


> I would also like to add that we citizens need to put pressure on the politicians to give schools and teachers some of our *power to implement consequences *for poor behavior.


Some have asked for that but part of the teachers fight it every time.
It's too bad the teachers at Parkland had no tools to "implement consequences".


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## SLFarmMI (Feb 21, 2013)

Bearfootfarm said:


> Some have asked for that but part of the teachers fight it every time.
> It's too bad the teachers at Parkland had no tools to "implement consequences".


Once again you have no idea what you are talking about. Parkland has nothing to do with the topic at hand.


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## Witch's Broom (Dec 23, 2017)

gleepish said:


> I did spank my children and to this day (my youngest is 27) I hold the accountable for their actions. However, I did have a problem with someone I really didn't know spanking my children and did not sign the papers that would allow the school to spank them.


Times sure have changed on the spanking front, haven't they?


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

SLFarmMI said:


> Once again you have no idea what you are talking about. Parkland *has nothing to do with the topic* at hand.


Sure it does.

It's about teachers not being able to control the students, and politicians not letting them have the needed tools.



> SLFarmMI said: ↑
> I would also like to add that we citizens need to put pressure on the politicians to give schools and teachers some of our *power to implement consequences *for poor behavior.


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## Witch's Broom (Dec 23, 2017)

GunMonkeyIntl said:


> Boom!


Prime example of how disposable human life has become today, and the low-regard held by so many.


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## GunMonkeyIntl (May 13, 2013)

Witch's Broom said:


> Prime example of how disposable human life has become today, and the low-regard held by so many.


O 




....k 








....what?


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## Danaus29 (Sep 12, 2005)

AmericanStand said:


> I have no problem with holding my kids accountable.
> But my experience taught me teachers can’t be trusted.


Much the same experience I had starting from 1st grade. Teachers that could be trusted were few and far between. But the ones that could be trusted were wonderful!

I never signed permission slips for my kids to be spanked at school, but I did take care of things at home. 

How did we (as a society) go from respecting our elders to letting kids beat up teachers and other students in school with no consequences? You didn't dare hit a teacher or there would be severe punishment at all of the schools hubby and I attended. Kids who injure teachers should be removed from the school and the parents should pay for any damages.


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## gilberte (Sep 25, 2004)

Witch's Broom said:


> I'm of the same mindset as you, couldn't agree more, and I wouldn't have any part of it either.
> 
> My husband has arrived home from work at day's end with many-an office story to share over the years, and the ones that resonate the most with me, are the ones that pertain to wives at home crying over the telephone that they need help controlling so and so (as in younger children). I think, sheesh, what has our world come to.
> 
> I attribute much of those stories to an overall lack of proper discipline and punishment in homes today.


 You would probably be surprised at the number of calls police departments around the country get every day from parents who want the police to set five-year-old "Johnny" right because he was out of control. 

As long as there are unfit parents having children at will and then paying little or no attention to them nothing will change. In fact it seems to be getting worse doesn't it?


----------



## AmericanStand (Jul 29, 2014)

SLFarmMI said:


> That job belongs to the parents.
> 
> I would, however, like it if parents would actually parent their children. Teach them to be respectful. Teach them to be responsible. Teach them to follow directions.


 We agree on that. But since you have our kids half their wakeful day we need your support. 
For instance does your school allow kids to call adults by their first names ? Does it encourage you to be pals, friends or buddies?


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## AmericanStand (Jul 29, 2014)

Witch's Broom said:


> Yes, absolutely. I definitely see a correlation between today's ill-behaviour, matched with an overall lack of justified authority, there's an imbalance for sure, and that needs to change.


 I think that has come from our distrust of authorities and that is from the protection of bad authority. 
There was a time in this country the average joe would have been glad to ride to town with the marshal 
Now do you know anyone glad to see a cop car with them ?
It’s the same with teachers etc those of is(and that’s most of us)that have been treated badly by them don’t trust them. 
There is a reason the Bible calls for those in authority to be judged harshly. 
But we see the opposite 
When killing a cop is a greater crime than killing the most lowly of us we know it’s all about protecting the “ Authorities“


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## AmericanStand (Jul 29, 2014)

SLFarmMI said:


> Thanks. It’s especially challenging right now because I am typing this with a broken wrist caused by an unruly student (not one of mine) tripping me and I have no recourse other than looking for another job which I am currently doing. So, I appreciate the good thoughts more than you know.


 Wait a second!
A kid broke your wrist and the school fired you ?
Like a million questions here!

Oh dang that ain’t right I am more than a little mad this could happen to you.


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## Witch's Broom (Dec 23, 2017)

Danaus29 said:


> Much the same experience I had starting from 1st grade. Teachers that could be trusted were few and far between. But the ones that could be trusted were wonderful!
> 
> I never signed permission slips for my kids to be spanked at school, but I did take care of things at home.
> 
> How did we (as a society) go from respecting our elders to letting kids beat up teachers and other students in school with no consequences? You didn't dare hit a teacher or there would be severe punishment at all of the schools hubby and I attended. Kids who injure teachers should be removed from the school and the parents should pay for any damages.


My sentiment to a T!


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## Witch's Broom (Dec 23, 2017)

gilberte said:


> You would probably be surprised at the number of calls police departments around the country get every day from parents who want the police to set five-year-old "Johnny" right because he was out of control.
> 
> As long as there are unfit parents having children at will and then paying little or no attention to them nothing will change. In fact it seems to be getting worse doesn't it?


Well said, and so true. Yes, it is getting worse.


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## Witch's Broom (Dec 23, 2017)

Danaus29 said:


> I never signed permission slips for my kids to be spanked at school, but I did take care of things at home.


Good on you!

What society is lacking today, good old-fashioned proper discipline.


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## gleepish (Mar 10, 2003)

Witch's Broom said:


> Good on you!
> 
> What society is lacking today, good old-fashioned proper discipline.


AMEN!


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## 101pigs (Sep 18, 2018)

Danaus29 said:


> Much the same experience I had starting from 1st grade. Teachers that could be trusted were few and far between. But the ones that could be trusted were wonderful!
> 
> I never signed permission slips for my kids to be spanked at school, but I did take care of things at home.
> 
> How did we (as a society) go from respecting our elders to letting kids beat up teachers and other students in school with no consequences? You didn't dare hit a teacher or there would be severe punishment at all of the schools hubby and I attended. Kids who injure teachers should be removed from the school and the parents should pay for any damages.


First school i attended in country was one room school house grade 1-8th grade. One teacher for the whole school about 35 children in the whole school. If you got a stick took to you by the teacher you also got a note to take home to be signed by your parents My Sister who was 7 years older then me use to sign my teacher notes. My Mother never seen most notes. My Sister used to keep me out of a lot of trouble  Bless her heart.


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## 54metalman (Jul 12, 2011)

muleskinner2 said:


> Police officers investigate crimes, truancy is a crime. In the course of investigating a crime it is sometimes necessary to question a suspect. Often, in order to question a suspect you must stop him. In this case he stopped him by pulling the golf cart in front of the truck.
> 
> If a police officer tells you to stop, he is giving you a lawful order. If you choose not to follow the lawful order, and attempt to leave. The officer has the authority to enforce the lawful order. If the officer believes his life is in danger, he may threaten the use of deadly force, and if necessary use deadly force.
> 
> ...


By deffintion a crime is to require there be a victim. No victim in truancy. Therefore it is not a crime. Officer should have called the office to verify. Yes student could have or should have produced the note as proof. Officer was also in the wrong by parking his cart infont of the driveway. Whats the worst that could have happened. Kid did not have permission to leave and therefore would have been found as an unexscused abbsense he would have been suspended. Simple. As far as being an officer..... I dont feel he acted like one. He acted more like a rent a cop at a mall. He gives other officers, good officers, a bad name.


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## 54metalman (Jul 12, 2011)

muleskinner2 said:


> No he didn't. I have threatened people with a gun, and it doesn't look anything like this did.


ok how about this.....
Muleskinner2 I hate your F ing guts!! I am going to get my gun and shoot your dumb ***!!! That is a threat when a civilian says it to someone especially a LEO but not when a LEO says it??

I like you Muleskinner2 and dont mean any disrespect just trying to see things differently.


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## AmericanStand (Jul 29, 2014)

Did this take place before school started ?


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## SLFarmMI (Feb 21, 2013)

AmericanStand said:


> We agree on that. But since you have our kids half their wakeful day we need your support.
> For instance does your school allow kids to call adults by their first names ? Does it encourage you to be pals, friends or buddies?


Absolutely not. And, even if they did, it would not happen in my room. Certainly you need to build relationships with kids to teach them most effectively but that relationship is not one of friends.


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## SLFarmMI (Feb 21, 2013)

AmericanStand said:


> Wait a second!
> A kid broke your wrist and the school fired you ?
> Like a million questions here!
> 
> Oh dang that ain’t right I am more than a little mad this could happen to you.


No, not fired. I’ve just had enough.


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## AmericanStand (Jul 29, 2014)

Can’t blame you.


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## AmericanStand (Jul 29, 2014)

You need to lawyer up. Sue both the kid and the school system that have resulted in your inability to work.... for ever .
And quit talking about it here.


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## Lisa in WA (Oct 11, 2004)

SLFarmMI said:


> Absolutely not. And, even if they did, it would not happen in my room. Certainly you need to build relationships with kids to teach them most effectively but that relationship is not one of friends.


Are there actually schools that allow kids to address teachers by first name?
I remember my daughters Girl Scout leaders insisting that the girls call them by first names. Then they’d complain about some girls treating them with less respect.


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## SLFarmMI (Feb 21, 2013)

AmericanStand said:


> Can’t blame you.


Things were never like this in all my years of teaching. Unfortunately, the state in all their wisdom (this is an example of why politicians should stay out of educational decisions) decided that discipline should be based on a “restorative justice” model. So they took what we were doing that was working and tossed it out. This is the result.


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## AmericanStand (Jul 29, 2014)

Restorative justice would be the kid , his folks and the school system paying your full wages from now on since you fully intended to work till you died.


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## SLFarmMI (Feb 21, 2013)

Lisa in WA said:


> Are there actually schools that allow kids to address teachers by first name?
> I remember my daughters Girl Scout leaders insisting that the girls call them by first names. Then they’d complain about some girls treating them with less respect.


None that I have ever worked in.


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

SLFarmMI said:


> So they took what we were doing that was working and tossed it out. This is the result.


But all the current studies said that's what was needed.


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## muleskinner2 (Oct 7, 2007)

SLFarmMI said:


> As a teacher, I don’t want to be applying corporal punishment to any child in my school. That’s not my role and I don’t want it to become my role. That job belongs to the parents.
> 
> I would, however, like it if parents would actually parent their children. Teach them to be respectful. Teach them to be responsible. Teach them to follow directions.





54metalman said:


> ok how about this.....
> Muleskinner2 I hate your F ing guts!! I am going to get my gun and shoot your dumb ***!!! That is a threat when a civilian says it to someone especially a LEO but not when a LEO says it??
> 
> I like you Muleskinner2 and dont mean any disrespect just trying to see things differently.



This is the difference. The threat of deadly force is justified, in response to a threat of deadly force. What it means is this, an unprovoked threat of deadly force is not justified. Replying to a threat of deadly force, with the threat of deadly force, even if you swear is justified. The officer was warning the driver not to move any closer to him, in response to the driver turning the wheels in his direction, and then moving toward him. It is a fine line, but a line none the less.

There isn't a huge pool of perfect candidates to choose from. New officers are hired from the general population, many of them are recently discharged from the military. And like it or not swearing every third or fourth word is how young people talk. During a twelve week academy a officer in training may get two or three hours of instruction, on how to talk to the public.


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## Witch's Broom (Dec 23, 2017)

gleepish said:


> I did spank my children and to this day (my youngest is 27) I hold the accountable for their actions. However, I did have a problem with someone I really didn't know spanking my children and did not sign the papers that would allow the school to spank them.


Gleepish. Your youngest and my youngest are the same age! 1992 babies!


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## muleskinner2 (Oct 7, 2007)

gilberte said:


> You would probably be surprised at the number of calls police departments around the country get every day from parents who want the police to set five-year-old "Johnny" right because he was out of control.


I have responded to 911 calls, where the parents couldn't get their kids to put down the video game and come to the table for supper. You must have a license to go fishing, but they will let anybody raise kids.


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## gleepish (Mar 10, 2003)

Witch's Broom said:


> Gleepish. Your youngest and my youngest are the same age! 1992 babies!


Mine's a '93--but a January baby.  So just a few months older than yours! The school curriculum was probably very similar for them and so very far from what we had... The changes in the schools from what was required for us is like a completely different world for them--and in just a single generation. It's really kind of amazing just how quickly things have changed.


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## Witch's Broom (Dec 23, 2017)

gleepish said:


> Mine's a '93--but a January baby.  So just a few months older than yours! The school curriculum was probably very similar for them and so very far from what we had... The changes in the schools from what was required for us is like a completely different world for them--and in just a single generation. It's really kind of amazing just how quickly things have changed.


I totally agree with all! Amazing it is!


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## Lisa in WA (Oct 11, 2004)

muleskinner2 said:


> I have responded to 911 calls, where the parents couldn't get their kids to put down the video game and come to the table for supper. You must have a license to go fishing, but they will let anybody raise kids.


I had a friend. She and her husband were both physicians so mom had to have some smarts. She had no idea how to discipline kids. 
she called me one day complaining about her daughter Kelly. They had given her a gas credit card to take to college. That gas station also had a Blimpies attached and the kid kept taking her friends to lunch and charging it all on the gas card resulting in crazy high “gas” bills every month. 
Dr. mom actually asked my advice as to what to do since telling her to stop doing it wasn’t working.
When I told her to cancel the card and give her a gas allowance she was appalled. 
Said she couldn’t do that...her daughter would be mad. 

true story.


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## Lisa in WA (Oct 11, 2004)

Same mom called me in tears one day. Kelly was mad about something and told her mom she was never going to speak to her again. 
I told her to enjoy it and she’d resume speaking to her as soon as she needed something which turned out to be the next day. 
The mom is also a good ten years older than me. 
No parenting common sense at all. 
The kid did turn out okay though. She’s a veterinarian now.


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

> SLFarmMI said: ↑
> As a teacher, *I don’t want* to be applying corporal punishment to any child in my school. That’s *not my role* and *I don’t want* it to become my role. That job belongs to the parents.


It's not about what anyone "wants".
It's about what needs to be done.

Everyone wants "someone else" to do it all.
The end result is no one has any control at all.


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## muleskinner2 (Oct 7, 2007)

Lisa in WA said:


> I had a friend. She and her husband were both physicians so mom had to have some smarts. She had no idea how to discipline kids.
> she called me one day complaining about her daughter Kelly. They had given her a gas credit card to take to college. That gas station also had a Blimpies attached and the kid kept taking her friends to lunch and charging it all on the gas card resulting in crazy high “gas” bills every month.
> Dr. mom actually asked my advice as to what to do since telling her to stop doing it wasn’t working.
> When I told her to cancel the card and give her a gas allowance she was appalled.
> ...


That is the world we live in, and it is going to get much worse. Stupid hurts, and it should. But it is fun to watch. When I was a kid we had a neighbor who had fled Nazi Germany. With his wife and two small children they walked out of Germany. Nobody would help them because it was against the law to give aid to the Jews.

Those two children are doctors now. Those were parents.


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## muleskinner2 (Oct 7, 2007)

Lisa in WA said:


> Same mom called me in tears one day. Kelly was mad about something and told her mom she was never going to speak to her again.
> I told her to enjoy it and she’d resume speaking to her as soon as she needed something which turned out to be the next day.
> The mom is also a good ten years older than me.
> No parenting common sense at all.
> The kid did turn out okay though. She’s a veterinarian now.


The kid was just being a kid. And from the sound of it, so was her mother.


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## Danaus29 (Sep 12, 2005)

AmericanStand said:


> Did this take place before school started ?


The video in the first post? I believe it did. He was dropping a friend off before his appointment and other cars can be seen coming into the parking lot.


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## AmericanStand (Jul 29, 2014)

If this happened before school how could it be truancy? There’s no requirement I’ve ever seen to be present before school?
If that’s what happened it’s just the school lady and the cops are playing the old big ego with a little bit of authority.


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## AmericanStand (Jul 29, 2014)

muleskinner2 said:


> I have responded to 911 calls, where the parents couldn't get their kids to put down the video game and come to the table for supper. You must have a license to go fishing, but they will let anybody raise kids.


ever tempted to lock them up for excessive stupidity ? Child abuse?
Prank 911 call?


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## gilberte (Sep 25, 2004)

You could never build enough jails.


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## AmericanStand (Jul 29, 2014)

Just tell them their kids said to stand over there ........


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## Danaus29 (Sep 12, 2005)

AmericanStand said:


> If this happened before school how could it be truancy? There’s no requirement I’ve ever seen to be present before school?
> If that’s what happened it’s just the school lady and the cops are playing the old big ego with a little bit of authority.


I stated that several times, he couldn't possibly be truant until he was absent. 
I had witnessed school personnel messing with certain students, just because they could, during my time in compulsory incarceration. Too bad we didn't have video on phones then, more than one person would have been fired.


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## muleskinner2 (Oct 7, 2007)

AmericanStand said:


> ever tempted to lock them up for excessive stupidity ? Child abuse?
> Prank 911 call?


If they did it twice, they were charged with abuse of 911 system. And I have put the kids in juvi overnight, that will usually get their attention.


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## kotori (Nov 15, 2014)

Lisa in WA said:


> Are there actually schools that allow kids to address teachers by first name?
> I remember my daughters Girl Scout leaders insisting that the girls call them by first names. Then they’d complain about some girls treating them with less respect.


At OSU one of my professors let us choose what we called her, since she had a difficult to pronounce last name. we called her Dr.(first name). IMO respect will be the same no matter what you call them, but if you don't have respect enforcing a certain way of address can make it appear so. Kind of how you can affectionately call someone a 'jerk'.


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## Lisa in WA (Oct 11, 2004)

kotori said:


> At OSU one of my professors let us choose what we called her, since she had a difficult to pronounce last name. we called her Dr.(first name). IMO respect will be the same no matter what you call them, but if you don't have respect enforcing a certain way of address can make it appear so. Kind of how you can affectionately call someone a 'jerk'.


okay, well you’re certainly entitled to your opinion but I think an adult calling a college professor by her first name is a little different than a 9 year old calling an adult by her first name. Your mileage may vary.


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## gleepish (Mar 10, 2003)

We never had my kids call our friends by their last names... but they did use Mister and Miss before their first names when speaking to or about an adult.


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## Lisa in WA (Oct 11, 2004)

gleepish said:


> We never had my kids call our friends by their last names... but they did use Mister and Miss before their first names when speaking to or about an adult.


That would’ve been fine with me too.


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