# downloading 30-06 to 308 velocities / M1 loading



## GREENCOUNTYPETE (Jul 25, 2006)

going to do some rifle hunting this year , normally we are in a township that restricts deer hunting to shotgun and handgun.

my son thinks he wants to carry the M1 hunting , and I have my Rem 742 in 30-06 which i have hunted and taken deer before but always with factory 150gr win I am getting low on factory 150s and rather than buy more I figured why not make some ammo for the 742.

a little history , the US Rifle 30 cal M1 was adopted in 1936 at the time IMR-4895 was the powder used/developed for the 30-06 M2 ball ammo a 150gr fmj projectile fired at 2740fps.

a point of history the M1 ball ammunition used a 175gr boat tail spietser ans was balistically superior to the M2 however too superior when the math was done it could out shoot the safety zone at the end of the Army practice ranges , redesigning all the ranges would be cost prohibitive apparently(this is the version of history I heard) a change back to the lighter 150gr flat base bullet gave a bit greater velocity up close but didn't carry the energy as far. 

IMR = Improved Military Rifle

4895 is a medium speed burning rifle powder H4895 and A2495 are very similar replicating the IMR-4895 originally contracted by the war department.

the Hodgdon family got their start selling surplus 4895 post WWII to civilians , rail road cars of the 4895 powder was being produced during WWII and when the war ended there were rail road cars of surplus powder. Hodgdon purchased some of this surplus powder and it took years to sell it all on the Civilian market.
more Hodgdon history http://ns.hodgdon.com/history.html

when the surplus was gone the Hodgdon's developed H4895 a slight variation on the original very similar burn rate and very temperature stable.

when I started reloading I choose H4895 for it's availability , consistency , available data and wide range of cartridges it does well with.
I use H4895 in 223 ,30-30, 308, 30-06 it also reduces well for reduced velocity cast bullet loads there is hardly a standard pressure rifle round that doesn't have 4895 data.

it doesn't produce the highest velocities or excel at very heavy for caliber bullets but is the middle of the pack with mid weight bullets

Hodgdon brand now owns IMR powders and makes both IMR-4895 and H4895

modern 30-06 runs about 2900fps with a 150gr bullet by using more or different powder
the M2 ball round was 2740 fps it worked and it kept gas port pressures withing spec for the M1 rifle.

the M1 rifle has a gas port under the front sight nearly to the end of the barrel , there is a hole in the barrel that vents gas into the gas cylinder the operating rod has a piston that travels in the gas cylinder and the op rod starts the rearward motion of the bolt unlocking the bolt. 
there is only one hole for the gas to enter and escape from.
if the pressure is to high at the gas port you run the risk of bending , breaking or excessive wear on the op rod , as well as adding wear to the bolt and receiver battering the bolt in the frame.

ideally with gas pressure in the appropriate range as the bullet is exiting the barrel pressure is building and just as the bullet has exited the op rod is starting into motion 
just enough energy to reliably cycle to feed and lock back on an empty magazine every time yet not over cycle.

M1 like any military rifle with issued ammo is a little over gasses so that they work reliably in all conditions.

I could and may still buy an adjustable gas plug for the M1 they are about 40 dollars and simply vent excess out the front of the gas plug and reduces the gas pressure giving lower op rod velocity.

velocity kills at both ends , you want an op rod to cycle the action reliably but in excess it batters the receiver 

so what does this have to with a Remington 742 , the 742 followed the 740 and it was an up sized auto loading rifle to handle the 30-06 cartridge it was developed in the 1940s using 1940s ammunition to measure Remington used bolt action 721 rifle and measuring devices to measure and determine where to take off the gas to drive the action.

while not a direct predecessor the Remington Model 8 and 81 auto loading rifle a John Browning design from 1908 that had been chambered in 25rem , 30 rem , 32rem and the one most of us probably are most familiar with 35Rem as many Marlin 336 rifles were later chambered in the 35rem and it is well known as a good woods deer hunting cartridge. Remington recognized the need for a 30-06 auto loading rifle and had already began r&d on the project pre WWII really right on the heals of the M1 but then the war time production needs halted development.

the 742 suffers from bolt batter to the receiver that eventually causes jams.when this happens the area inside the top of the receiver that gets battered by the bolt can be stoned to get a little more life from it.
besides keeping the chamber ,action clean and action lubricated not using Hot loads or overly heavy bullets has apparently prolonged 742 service life.

one would think this would have been found during rifle trials and testing and I suspect that they kept the rifles clean , lubed and used 150gr ammo that would have at the time been essentially M1 gas port pressures.

my 742 is mid 1960s rifle and I purchased it many years ago not looking like it had been used very much at all.
I didn't know about the 742 "issues" until years after I had bought (pre-internet days). My great grandfather had an early 742 and it was well known in the family as an effective deer gun. as a hunting rifle I only ran Winchester super-x 150gr sp ammunition through it this was what the hardware store in town sold and I used to buy boxes of 20 for $7.40 those were the days a 14 year old could ride his bike to the hardware and buy 30-06 ammo. (there was likely a law against this by this time but the store owner was a friend of my grandfather and knew my dad and that it was ok with him that when ever I got paid I went and bought a box of ammo)

being my rifle doesn't show the signs of a bolt battered receiver , I have always kept it clean and lubed I thought it couldn't hurt to run a little lower gas port pressure in the 1940s velocity and powder.
one ammo that can be shared for both 30-06 rifles and shares components with my 308 loads would be a bonus, I have to see how it shoots 

there is a lot of published M1 data so I choose a M1 safe load to load to try for both.

expected velocity is down around 2600 fps with the 165gr bullets that I had a stock of that I load in 308 this will put my 308 load and 30-06 load very close in velocity and trajectory but a 2650fps 165 gr BTSP has dropped many deer and should be plenty adequate inside 200 yards.


I thought I would share , as I fell down a bit of a rabbit hole as I started to research this a bit.


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## GREENCOUNTYPETE (Jul 25, 2006)

I have also found this as a reference http://www.garandgear.com/m1-garand-ammunition
they are selling a non vented gas plug that is hollow to reduce pressure by adding volume but the data is very interesting they measured many of the commercially available ammo


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## GunMonkeyIntl (May 13, 2013)

I used to shoot high-power matches with an M1. My original match load was a 150gr SMK with 46.8gr of 4895. I seem to recall switching to Varget at some point, but I don't recall the charge.

On your 742: The 7400 addressed this by making the carrier cut wider, and staking a hardened liner into it. There were a few gunsmiths milling the carrier cut in the receiver to take one of the 7400's liners.

Barring that, Ahlman's in MN used to offer a service where they'd turn your worn out 742 into a 760. The shop I worked in routed a few there, and the work came back pretty solid. I don't remember what they charged, or if they even still offer it, but may be worth looking into. Even if yours doesn't need it yet, it could enable you to use full-tilt loads without having to worry about it.


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## GREENCOUNTYPETE (Jul 25, 2006)

thank you for the info GunMonkey, I figure a bit of prevention should keep it working a long time. I would guess this rifle has less than 200 rounds almost all of them 150s 

I have yet to shoot a deer beyond 125 yards 
a 165 BTSP at 2600 fps will be plenty more than enough power to kill a white tale deer inside 200 yards.

I bought the 742 when I was 14 and only actually hunted with it 2 years every other year was in a shotgun/pistol only management zone or township
I liked that it was essentially identical feel to my 1100 shotgun.

I see the Rem express corelocks 150s and Federal powershock 150s factory ammo are running M1 safe gas pressure from the garandgear.com testing


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## GREENCOUNTYPETE (Jul 25, 2006)

was able to get out and test today , just got the scope on the 742 a few minutes ago so it wasn't ready for testing this morning.

the M1 fired 8 rounds with a nice 1:30-2:00 ejection pattern about 4-5 feet from the rifle

cycle and lock back didn't do any serious accuracy testing although the group was ok at 50 yards made a sight correction and fired 3 more to confirm, I could use another inch up at 50 and move to 100 I only had 12 rounds made up.

I will be loading some more this is 44gr H4895 under a speer 165gr BTSP and shoot some groups hopefully later this week although light after work is getting to be a precious thing

Hodgdon lists max at 47.5gr H4895
Hornady lists max M1 Safe at 46.4 gr

44gr is just above a starting load listed at 43gr
my 308 load is 42gr so figuring for the extra case room and the hornady book velocity I expect it to be very close to the same velocity


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## GREENCOUNTYPETE (Jul 25, 2006)

I was able to test the rounds in the 742 last night in the fleeting light and the snow that started just as I got set up.

ejection , lock back , definitely not over gassed it drops the brass just to my right except for the last round it goes a bit more forward , cycling is smooth accuracy is good , I got the scope adjusted close in a few rounds and a few test groups and ran out of light.

I did learn that as far forward as I could get the scope is not far enough forward for me, I need a rail with more slots.

I am finding I for these 2-7 scope have to get the rear of the scope nearly strait up from the trigger possibly a half inch behind the trigger.
i am looking for a multi slot rail , the rail I have only has 2 slots


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## GREENCOUNTYPETE (Jul 25, 2006)

update , I got the rail on it about 2 weeks ago and have run about 25 rounds the brass dumps out very close and it does not seem to be battering the receiver any longer , time will tell.

all sighted in and ready to hunt opening morning

groups were plenty good for a woods deer hunting nothing sub MOA but about 2moa I can live with that this isn't a long range precision rifle it is a Wisconsin woods deer gun quick to the shoulder like a shotgun.


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

Scrub that chamber religiously or it will eventually cause irreparable problems.
742's are notorious for jamming if the chamber becomes corroded.


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## GREENCOUNTYPETE (Jul 25, 2006)

I have been keeping the chamber and barrel clean and the rails lubed.
Hornady one shot and a pull through is my standard now I had a copper wire twisted into a patch loop and bent to fit when I first learned of this many years ago and just didn't run very many rounds through it for a lot of years and kept it well lubed and clean..

I decided that I was going to find a way to use it for as long as I could and this seems to be the answer.

corrosion on guns has never been an issue for me , I have always been good at cleaning and oiling guns after they are used , but I know a lot people that do no maintenance to their deer gun for years and could see how it would be an issue for them


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## GREENCOUNTYPETE (Jul 25, 2006)

took a very nice 8 point buck with the 742 yesterday morning. the distance was about 125 yards running as it was leaving a woods for the hay field . my cousin was driving that small woods.

the 165 worked well seemed like very decent penetration I was holding just ahead of the shoulder and the rounds passed from that point to the bottom edge of the back-strap on the opposite side for about 24 inches of penetration.

rounds because I don't like to chase deer and honestly it showed no sight that the first round had hit it in the maybe 2 more yards I let it go before I hit it again. where it then dropped but looked like it was trying to get up so I shot it again , I hate it when they get up , well that was the end.

all 3 rounds went in just forward of the shoulder 2 exited about 4 inches apart about half way back just below the back-strap, the last exited the top between the 2 shoulders


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