# Berkshire Pigs vs Guinea Hogs



## paisseon (Oct 11, 2016)

Which should I choose? I'd love to hear the pros and cons of each or any general information. Sorry it's such a vague question I'm just not exactly sure what I should ask! Some important things to me are cold hardiness and how much of their diet they can forage. If you have any other suggestions for a different smallish pig I'd love to hear about it too.


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## sang (Aug 23, 2013)

Berkshires aren't small, they will grow to 800 plus.


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## Agriculture (Jun 8, 2015)

Sang is right. There is no comparison. Guinea hogs are a loosely defined breed, recently made up from pot belly crosses to cater to the gullible, who buy the fanciful stories of the ideal small homestead pig. They attract those who just don't have the wherewithal to handle normal pigs, let alone think for themselves. If it is small pigs that you want, just buy Berks, or any other normal breed, or even some good commercial crosses, and raise them until slaughter weight, which is really not all that big.

All pigs will be able to forage to some degree, depending a lot on the quality of your forage. Some pot bellies, and hence the Guineas which were derived from them, do not root very much, but that also limits their foraging efficiency. It is claimed by some that Gloustershire Old Spots do not root very much either, being supposedly good for cleaning up orchards without destroying the trees. That may or may not be the heritage breeds movement propaganda. All pigs will handle the cold equally well. There is no difference there.


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## dfr1973 (Apr 19, 2012)

Are you breeding or just raising up feeders? If you're breeding, what market will you be targeting? Do you want lard hogs, or lean hogs? AGHs are supposed to be lard hogs, while Berks are more a meat breed, IIRC. If you just want to raise up smallish lard hogs, look for pot belly crosses. They make for a tasty lard hog, but full pot bellies tend to grow slow. Pot belly crosses also tend to go cheap, whereas Berks are pricey right now due to all the marketing going on.


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## harry_homestead (Jul 11, 2016)

need more info about your plans. raising for your own freezer? raising to sell finished pork? raising for show? do you plan to breed pure bred pigs?


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## paisseon (Oct 11, 2016)

Thanks for all the information! I'm probably just going to be raising them for my own freezer. I do want to breed them but again just for myself and my family so I don't care about them being pure bred too much since they don't be doing much else. I don't even care if they're large pigs honestly, I'd just prefer a smaller breed. I'm just getting into pig research so thanks for all the information already!


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## Pig in a poke (Mar 27, 2013)

All domesticated animal breeds are "made up." 
Some people disdain the AGH and other recently re-discovered lard-type pigs, I gather because they resent the fad over-pricing. There are other lard-type breeds experiencing renewed interest in Europe, especially. The fact is, all pigs were fattier before, say, 1950. Then, "fat" became a dirty word, so the pork industry succeeded in creating a leaner type confinement animal dubbed "the other white meat." AGHs are a lard breed, Berskhires are a bacon breed. Not to say you won't get bacon from an AGH, it's just going to be a lot fattier.
AGH are smaller and therefore attract people without hog experience, who want to get a start without the intimidation of larger breeds. We started with a pair of AGHs, kept the best gilt (who topped out at 300 lb., which is large for the breed) and bred her to a Berkshire boar. The best female from that 50-50 cross is 450 lb. at maturity. They have equally good dispositions.
The Berkshire is a far more active breed than the AGH. They both graze and forage well. Down side of AGH is they can get too fat easily and have fertility issues. As for the meat, they are similarly red with varying marbling. The AGH takes longer to reach 250 pounds than a standard breed like Berkshire. The up side to AGH right now is that they are cheap, because all those people "who just don't have the wherewithal to handle normal pigs, let alone think for themselves" (wow!) have over-saturated the market with "breeders."
In that sense, they have done the breed a dis-service. Their "coefficiency of inbreeding" was established with an artificial starting point using a small group of foundation stock. They won't open their registry to new stock of unknown origin, even if the animals could DNA-test to similar genetic sequences as the foundation stock. So the gene pool of registered AGH is naturally getting tight. I don't know anything about registered Berkshires, except that breeders in my area are equally convinced as AGH breeders that every piglet is a breeder, based on the prices they're asking.


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## gjhinesjr (Jun 28, 2014)

Well holy moly. Thank goodness for "Agriculture". I had no idea I was such a moron! And to think, all this time... College educated, superintendent of 50 million dollars worth of municipal equipment, and I'm an idiot because I see value in a Guinea Hog. Get off it dude...

Ok I'm done, just can't stand people who have to put down the niche breeds/movement because they don't get it.

Speaking from experience, I've owned 3 berkshires. Bred 2 of them, butchered 2 of them, cross bred the berkshire with a guinea hog, butchered those, and now maintain 4 purebred guinea hogs.

They are totally different breeds, with totally different characteristics. The berks, IMO, are basically like every other factory raised breed. Maybe a bit less lean and refined. They grow quick-ish, they're all muscle, they get to a normal big size, they're pretty active, and they need a decent amount of calories to maintain. I liked mine, but they're a modern pig. Berks used to be considered a serious lard pig. Take a look at some british berkshire pics and you'll see what I mean. Totally different.

The guinea hog is a throwback type animal. I swear mine live off air (they free graze on 5 acres), they grow super slow, they root, but only here and there after it rains a bunch, and they're nicer mom's. I'd say Pig in a Poke is right, they're fertility isn't stellar, but if you're looking for an efficient pig, I see no reason to look elsewhere. They have a lot more hair than the other 3 breeds I've had as well. So that combined with the extra fat and I'd say they handle my South Dakota winters better for sure. 

I love my AGH's. I got burnt out on the traditional breeds I had for a few years cause I spent hundreds a month in feed. If they didn't have a lot of corn, it showed. The guinea hogs don't get formal food, they get pasture, and scraps of veggies/meals/milk/eggs when they're available, and they thrive.

Haven't had a chance to butcher one yet, but I plan to this winter. And the crosses were fantastic. So I expect them to be great. I cook with lard 99% of the time, so the breed works for me.

And I dunno where in the heck half of you guys are. But this whole, "you pay more for the fad breeds" shtick is a joke. I'm in hog country out here, and I can't sell a AGH piglet for $50. But to get anything off a factory farm that isn't a weak runt, I'm looking at $150 for a feeder, and $250+ EASILY for anything worth breeding.

Another FYI, I'm a member of the AGH Association. We're voting on a proposal right now to open up the herdbook to animals that meet a set of qualifications in order to bring in lost lines and genetics.


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## CelestielAcres (Sep 16, 2016)

paisseon said:


> Which should I choose? I'd love to hear the pros and cons of each or any general information. Sorry it's such a vague question I'm just not exactly sure what I should ask! Some important things to me are cold hardiness and how much of their diet they can forage. If you have any other suggestions for a different smallish pig I'd love to hear about it too.


Have you heard of KuneKunes?? They are kind of a fad pig now because of friendliness and size (aka teacup ideals).....BUT......if you dig deeper there are many who are raising these pigs on the homestead to supply pork. They are a pasture pig (topping out at 200lbs on the very high end) they have a shorter snout so they don't root like most pigs, they graze. I researched this breed for a few years and this year we bit the bullet and added them to our homestead. So far what I can tell you is that they do graze very well when allowed. My perimiter fencing won't keep them in as small as they were so I have only had them out when supervised. Next spring they should be able to be on there pastures without worry. 

We really like them thus far. We raised large hogs prior (mulefoots and I hated them). It is so nice to go into the pen and have them want a belly rub and they just fall over like a dog! My large hogs weren't anything I wanted to spend time with on the farm. 

Most compare the KuneKune to the pot belly but if raised on pasture and lower fat diets they aren't "lard pigs". When you first do a search on these pigs the cost will be absurd. Keep searching, there are many who raise quality piglets that are not 1000+ per piglet for the homestead. I got my stock from 6-8 hrs away from me but the breeders were great in helping me arrange delivery, the ones from Iowa had family coming our way so they brought him within an hour of me for no cost along with a veteran discount. 

I love this breed and I haven't even eaten it yet.


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## Paul O (Sep 13, 2004)

I knew a fellow that raised Guinea Hogs. He had a disability and they were a size that he could manage. Not something I would do but they worked for him.


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## gerold (Jul 18, 2011)

paisseon said:


> Which should I choose? I'd love to hear the pros and cons of each or any general information. Sorry it's such a vague question I'm just not exactly sure what I should ask! Some important things to me are cold hardiness and how much of their diet they can forage. If you have any other suggestions for a different smallish pig I'd love to hear about it too.


Hereford/GOS is the hog you may be looking for. It has lots of fat and a good bacon hog plus big hams. The best forging hog i have found. They can get by without any grain and love acorns and nuts. They will forage in the pasture most of the day and root very little in the pasture if they have woods to roam in. Easy to take care of and friendly. At 2 years old most only weigh 500-600 Female, Boars a bit more. I have butchered 2 800 lbs. boars, no taint and really fine tasting meat.


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## gerold (Jul 18, 2011)

paisseon said:


> Which should I choose? I'd love to hear the pros and cons of each or any general information. Sorry it's such a vague question I'm just not exactly sure what I should ask! Some important things to me are cold hardiness and how much of their diet they can forage. If you have any other suggestions for a different smallish pig I'd love to hear about it too.


https://www.facebook.com/American-Guinea-Hog-Association-293574984097571/

Link above has more on the Guinea hog. More links for info on that hog on FB.


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## ONG2 (Sep 22, 2010)

I too am a member of AGH Association, while we do not breed the hogs any longer we raise 3 males a year to eat (friends & family). While it is true they don't grow fast they grow cheap. Great dispositions, great mothers, and great eating. When the trailer showed up last year to pick them up, we made a chute with gates and the pigs followed my wife through the gates and up the ramp, into the trailer. She was rattling a coffee can with feed, and saying pig, pig, pig. The fellow that was driving the trailer and has been hauling animals for years, shook his head in amazement and said "I have never seen anything like that."

I forgot to mention if you go to our website you can see pics of the animals & what the carcass looks like on the butchering tab.


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## Lady89 (Feb 22, 2014)

the big question is do you want lard pigs or a leaner meat pig?


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## Lady89 (Feb 22, 2014)

gjhinesjr said:


> Another FYI, I'm a member of the AGH Association. We're voting on a proposal right now to open up the herdbook to animals that meet a set of qualifications in order to bring in lost lines and genetics.


thats good the one of the many reasons i have brushed off AGH to this point is the fact i thought they would be just another fad breed that kills its self off with closed genetics


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## cooper101 (Sep 13, 2010)

Breeding isn't cost effective if you're just raising them for yourself to eat. Just buy feeders. Any pig will do fine in the winter if it has shelter from wind and can stay dry with some bedding to burrow into. You can manage size. Just butcher earlier if it's a larger breed. How you raise and feed them has a big impact on fat. We raise berks on pasture and they have plenty of fat on them. I wouldn't really fret about breed too much. I would just find a couple basic meat weaners and try it. Fed well, they'll be fine. And I've never seen a pig that didn't know how to forage.


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## woodsman14 (Oct 6, 2014)

Lady89 said:


> just another fad breed that kills its self off with closed genetics


What breed(s) are you referring to? I wasn't aware of any newer breed of pig that has come and gone? :huh:


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## enggass (Nov 23, 2011)

A couple of years ago I raised 2 AGH Boars(not barrows). No Boar Taint whatsoever! I raised them for one year. Fed them a couple of cups of grain per day, hay and the rest they foraged. Completely tore up the area I had them fenced in. Maybe 1/4 acre if that? One dressed out at 95lbs the other, 120lbs. Not large, but the meat was great - a lot of lard through. Not nearly as lean as other breeds. PROS: Easy to raise, friendly, low cost, smart
CONS: Long grow out time, small, smart, hard not to get attached to...


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## AnchorRanchFarm (Nov 17, 2016)

The following comes via Darby Simpson of Simpson Family Farm in Indiana, who did a multi-part series on the Permaculture Voices podcast about raising pastured livestock. Which I definitely recommend.

The advice is...if you are starting out and have never raised pigs before, JUST GET PIGS. Breed matters, but you don't know enough to know how it matters and you're not going to learn how it matters to your specific situation until you raise some pigs and see how they do.

Also...farrowing is extremely difficult. Raising a human baby is a huge job and at least they're not running around testing fences at a few weeks old. It would be irresponsible to try to farrow pigs when one doesn't even know how to keep the adults alive.


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## kronk (Mar 26, 2015)

Disclaimer: we raise registered Kunekunes and belong to both American registries as well as the UK's BKKPS. We're in our third year of breeding and manage a diverse herd of over sixty. Recently we expanded our bloodlines to (12), and expect to add the remaining couple of original lines by the coming spring before closing our herd. 

To the AGH folk, I would caution _against_ opening your herd book to new stuff that tracks to partial AGH parentage. Once that toothpaste is out of the tube you can't put it back. If your COI's are getting out of control there are other options. Our British registry spent a lot of dough and hired consultants to to evaluate best options for perpetuating the breed and they began with the setting of a minimum COI threshold for registration. There's good math and science behind their new suggested standard; 0-3 is ideal, over 3 to 5 is still good, but from over 5 to 10.0 requires great caution. Don't let it go any further or they will not register. The math and science of this is based upon something called the "Vortex of Extinction", and it applies to all animal populations, so here's a paper originally published for the Institute of Canine Biology that does a pretty concise job of explaining, and it's completely applicable to swine, or any other animal species for that matter.

http://www.instituteofcaninebiology.org/blog/coi-faqs-understanding-the-coefficient-of-inbreeding 

All of that said, Kunekunes are THE best small holding pig breed, IMNSH and completely biased opinion. They have evolved as the perfect grazing pig, to the point that their shorter, upturned snouts (which allow for easier grazing) do not work well to encourage rooting. They will manage to dig themselves a small wallow near their waterer in the warmer weather, but they are incredibly easy on pastures and fences. Their history is of living among the Maori tribes of the New Zealand Islands, where they were in constant contact with humans and were typically not fenced at all. On the rare occasion where one of ours has walked out an open gate, they never walk much further than the first patch of clover or plantain that they happen upon. When my neighbor's Hereford hogs tear down a hog panel or destroy a fence they are off to the races and immediately disappear into the nearby woods. Ours act like they could care less, and we don't even have electric on our paddock fences. Pasture fences have it, but that's to keep other animals out rather than our pigs in.

Not all hogs are good grazers, and fewer still will thrive on grass. This is a breed that will actually suffer if subjected to the usual GMO grain based diet. There are plenty of breeds that can survive on grass alone, but no others that I'm aware of that are this easy to handle AND maintain fertility, demeanor, and general condition on just grass. The one caveat is that some soils don't have enough selenium available and a deficiency in that will cause weak pasterns (the pig looks to be standing flat footed) so some (like us) supplement with kelp meal. 

The ease of handling is just one of their advantages that can't be over-stated. If you expect a wife or small children to interact with your pigs, then there isn't any better. My wife regularly sits among them in the pasture, and even in the farrowing stall with the sows as they are birthing, and she's all of a hundred pounds soaking wringing wet.
Speaking of birthing, they are also a hairy pig, and well adapted across all of the U.S. and up into Canada, Alaska, Norway, and all over Scandinavia. They need little in terms of shelter, and while we tend to be over protective, they do just fine with nothing but a small three sided run-in shed with a dry floor for winter that also provides a sun shade in the summer. We provide a heated barn and large farrowing stalls with private paddocks for our Moms, 'cuz basically my wife makes me do it, but thye farrow just as successfully and willingly in a nest of grass or straw right out in our open prairie. Litter sizes are variable, and that is part of what we breed and select for, but we've had as many as nine and average over five each, twice a year. They are fabulous moms! They are also the easiest birthing animal I have ever seen. The wildest call we've ever had was a scared first time Mom that was so anxious that we were afraid she was going to step on a piglet half way through, so we gave her a half a bottle of beer and she calmed right down. The beer thing cinched it for me. We be buds now. 

These guys load themselves and we regularly move them past other pastures and paddocks of pigs without incident, electric prods, or strenuous exertion. Need to check their teats or trim a hoof? Just rub their side for a few seconds and they do their best imitation of a feinting goat, falling over into a near comatose state. From there we do everything from administering subcutaneous injections of de-wormers, to trimming the occasional hoof. Try that with an AGH, a Mullie, or a Duroc. Not meaning to diss anyone's pigs, these guys are just that awesome, but I will contest the idea that they can be improved upon by out-crossing with other breeds. 

Where I have seen this tried the character and demeanor of the Kunekune is the first thing to disappear (eg., the Idaho Pasture Pig, or IPP comes immediately to mind - a Berk,Kune,Duroc cross I consider an epic fail), and you don't get better quality meat by growing it faster. The two objectives are diametrically opposed and function inversely to each other. The other folks that try out-crossing them are the "mini" pig people, and I have nothing but contempt for the impact that their business model has had on pigdom, so better I leave it at that.

There is a great deal of diversity within the breed in terms of size, coat, rate of growth, and fecundity. Our goals were to produce enough high quality pork to feed our extended family, friends, and members of a local CSA, so we ultimately need to be able to harvest several hundred pigs each year, and we're getting pretty close. That said, they are a slow grower all the same, so they require the filling of a much longer pipeline, BUT, and this is a huge point that many somehow ignore or miss, the slow growth on grass is exactly _why_ they develop such incredibly unctuous, intramuscular marbling. There is no fast way to accomplish that. You want fast - you get lean, a completely different nutritional profile, and a completely different type and flavor of fat. That has been the evolution of the modern pig in order to meet the demands of their dynamic market and its associated advertising. Remember "The other white meat"? 

Before the days of hydrolized fats and other wondrous, heart killing, food additives, lard was THE fat (other than its cousin beef tallow). The leaf lard from these pigs is absolutely fabulous for cooking, and the rest makes wonderfully moisturizing soap as well as adding great flavor and juiciness to lean game such as venison, or even grass fed beef. Kunekunes are a smaller breed, but as the Lowline Angus cattlemen have shown, smaller framed grazers out-perform their larger bred brethren when raised on grass. As mentioned, they carry a lot of variety within the breed. Our select boars top out at about 300 lbs., and our largest breeding sows at about 240. We do see outliers that grow larger, but we do not breed them as they exceed even the rather loose Kunekune "Standard". We also maintain a variety of smaller finishing bloodlines, mainly because we intend to close our herd and want to keep our own library of genetic diversity for future out-crossing and the preservation of the breed. Recent acceptance of less than full blooded imports have in our opinion threatened this, and there's nothing we can do to stop or undo it, so we chose this route. Last word on their smaller size; you haven't lived 'til you've had a good old fashioned hog killin'. Nor have you come so close to dropping dead from exhaustion.

Well it's not all that bad, but if you aren't completely prepared, with a plan and plenty of sharp knives, it can be a real trial. The good news is, smaller pigs are easier to handle every step of the way. And when you're done, you don't need to buy a new freezer to hold all of the meat. For the homesteading crowd you can store your meat out in the yard until you're ready for it. Another advantage of their slow growth. They can breed for up to 8 years, and while physically able as early as 6 months with some, the general rule is to keep them out until they are at least a year old.

Cost wise, if you're not interested in registering your stock and only want a few to keep yourself in awesome tasting pork, they can be purchased fairly reasonably, but here I would caution that you rarely get what you pay for unless you know what to look for and avoid. Unfortunately due to the recent exposure and growth in popularity of the breed, you get with it a LOT of unscrupulous and in some cases just ignorant breeders who approach these pigs like they're setting up a puppy mill. They sell everything that they can for the highest price possible, claiming that everything popping out of their sows' cooter is "breeding quality", which is not only statistically improbable. it's complete crap. As with most breeds of animals, if you're lucky maybe 5% of all off-spring are truly quality animals. The next 5% are maybe okay, and possibly the next 15-20% are middling, with the rest rightfully being culls. We raise pigs for meat, not to dupe noob breeders, so we frequently trade pigs with other breeders, but other than an occasional barter THAT so-called business is not us. 

I have seen numerous breeders who knowingly continue to breed and sell pigs that throw scrotal hernias, or other known genetic defects for example. Their motive is simple greed, and their victims often well intentioned folks who know nothing about livestock, much less pigs. Many (and I do mean a hell of a lot) also breed way too close, completely ignoring Coefficients of Inbrededness and Kinship (COI & COK). It serves their bank accounts well, but not the breed or the new owners. I DO NOT recommend that anyone buy into Kunekunes thinking that they can quickly recoup their investment with their first litter. Try and keep in mind that nearly everybody that has been buying these pigs for the last ten years has had that same idea, or worse. I'm the furthest thing in the world from being an anti-capitalist, but I am an anti-crapitalist, and if you approach this breed without a plan and an honestly workable business model you will fail. They can be managed profitably, but you need to develop a meat strategy first, not a pet pig or endless line of suckers strategy. When done right, and armed with healthy, pasture raised pork, marbled like Kobe beef, you can charge whatever you want - 'cuz there's not enough like it out there, but it does require that you do your homework first. If you sell an occasional high quality breeder off, consider it a windfall, and congratulate yourself for being one of the few ethical breeders out there. The question is - why would you sell your best pigs off in the first place? You might keep that in mind as you shop around for any breed of any animal. 

While we do register all of our pigs, and we do raise some spectacular breeding stock, other than maybe selling a few to pay for more fencing, I also never saw the point in promulgating your own competition and ultimate demise. More breeders means lower prices, and what these supposed "breeder" stock manipulators don't seem to get is that eventually they will be consumed in a race to see who can sell the cheapest. That's the commodity market, and that is what has been screwing pig farmers and cattlemen for centuries. If you want a sustainable farm based business involving pigs, you need to create a network of farms that supply an identifiable, quality, brand. It's a lot easier to succeed when you're working together and have each other's back instead of constantly hurrying to see who can screw the most noobs or churn out the most ----- the quickest.

Sorry for the epic tome. Just have a lot to say on the subject and I hate to leave people under-armed and ill-informed.


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## gerold (Jul 18, 2011)

AnchorRanchFarm said:


> The following comes via Darby Simpson of Simpson Family Farm in Indiana, who did a multi-part series on the Permaculture Voices podcast about raising pastured livestock. Which I definitely recommend.
> 
> The advice is...if you are starting out and have never raised pigs before, JUST GET PIGS. Breed matters, but you don't know enough to know how it matters and you're not going to learn how it matters to your specific situation until you raise some pigs and see how they do.
> 
> Also...farrowing is extremely difficult. Raising a human baby is a huge job and at least they're not running around testing fences at a few weeks old. It would be irresponsible to try to farrow pigs when one doesn't even know how to keep the adults alive.


I disagree with the above. Do a lot of reading up on different breeds of hogs. Visit hog farms and also hog factories and get to know the different breeds of pigs. Prepare a good pasture and place first before getting your stock. (important to put up a good fence.)

Farrowing is not extremely difficult if you prepare and talk to other pig farmers. The Gilts or Sows do all the work and most know what they are doing. 

Buy a couple good pure breeds of Gilts and one boar and you will learn in a few mos. how to raise pigs. Very important to buy a breed of hog that will fit your farm and needs. Very important to feed your stock good hog feed and forget about all the free cheap donuts and other stuff that is not good for your hog operation. Good pasture and a couple acres of woods with oak trees,etc. is always a plus.


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## AnchorRanchFarm (Nov 17, 2016)

OK, I'm new to these forums so...are there mods? kronk's answer (which, referencing my own, I don't think is useful to the OP) is a huge wealth of very good information. I would hate to see it get lost because this thread is about AGH vs Berkshires and not about Kunekunes. Heck, I half want to copy-paste kronk's answer just in case I need to refer back to it at some point. Is there a way for a mod to save that answer separately from this thread so it's more easily accessible? Like, is there a storing-house for "generally helpful information about raising pigs" where kronk's answer could be copied so others can find it if so interested?


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