# What is it with realtors... Uugh!!



## Bellyman (Jul 6, 2013)

Uugh!!! What is it with realtors? 

I'm looking at finding yet another realtor. (#5, I think, I lost track.) It seems like they all say, "I can show you anything, no matter who has it listed", but when it comes right down to it, they have absolutely no intention of showing you anything their office doesn't have listed. 

I know they make more money on their own listings. I once held a license myself and know how it works. But they DO make money selling property that other agents and other agencies have, not as much, but wouldn't they be better making 1/2 of something than all of nothing because they don't have what I want for sale?

Uugh!! It gets tiring.

Anyway, there's a new area that I'm thinking of adding to my potential property search that wouldn't really be near all of the old realtors, at least not near enough that it would be their territory. Any suggestions on how to find someone that will really work to find me what I'm looking for as opposed to what they want to show me? Maybe I've been doing it wrong.


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## mnn2501 (Apr 2, 2008)

I've dealt with a number of Real estate agents (not all Real Estate agents are Realtor's)and never heard of a one doing that, that's downright stupid on their part. Since it appears a number of them in your area do that; I would confront a new agent before you ever see one property with them and tell them if they do that you'll drop them like a hot potato


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## bajiay (Apr 8, 2008)

Ask your friends who they have used in past situations or go into a reputable agency in your area. Ask to speak to the broker and tell them what you are wanting someone to help you with. If they are jerks, leave, and go to a different office. I've sold real estate too. In my experience, if the broker is a jerk, then the employees are more apt to be as well. Good luck!


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## farmrbrown (Jun 25, 2012)

Learn discernment, learn to spot a dishonest person, and then only do business with honest people.


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## goatlady (May 31, 2002)

You can hire a realtor to work only for you - not a seller. Find one that will do a "Buyer's Agent" agreement - that realtor will show properties you are interested in, not his/her listings. Some charge a flat fee some do not, but all still share the regular commission splits.

Being a former realtor, I'm surprised you seem to have forgotten that little bit of info.


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## Bellyman (Jul 6, 2013)

goatlady said:


> You can hire a realtor to work only for you - not a seller. Find one that will do a "Buyer's Agent" agreement - that realtor will show properties you are interested in, not his/her listings. Some charge a flat fee some do not, but all still share the regular commission splits.
> 
> Being a former realtor, I'm surprised you seem to have forgotten that little bit of info.


It's been a lot of years... probably pushing 25 years now. I was a licensed real estate agent but not a realtor, my OP probably didn't delineate that well, sorry. Back when I was involved, you didn't really hear much about "buyers agents". So I admit, I'm not as familiar with how that works.

One thing I am not wanting to do is to sign anything that says I'm going to work exclusively with a particular buyers agent and end up with an agent that, once again, only wants to show me their listings. Maybe I wouldn't be locked in quite in the way I think. (??)

Thanks for the input.


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## joe&katie (Jun 14, 2010)

It has been my experience that agents tend to either be "listing specialists", where they have loads of listing, advertise a lot, etc., and don't tend to 'show' houses very much - they let the other type of agent do all the running around and showing. You can tell very easily if it is a listing type of agent by the number of listing they have. 

I prefer to do my searching online, go and visit the place without a realtor, and then contact the realtor if I want to see inside. With all the online resources these days, I can quickly dispense with places that won't fit my needs without even talking to an agent until I'm seriously interested.


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## John_Canada (Aug 17, 2013)

goatlady said:


> You can hire a realtor to work only for you - not a seller. Find one that will do a "Buyer's Agent" agreement - that realtor will show properties you are interested in, not his/her listings. Some charge a flat fee some do not, but all still share the regular commission splits.
> 
> Being a former realtor, I'm surprised you seem to have forgotten that little bit of info.


I would NEVER sign that agreement. It locks you into purchasing a property that only they have introduced you to. If it is family member's house or something you found as a FSBO, you are screwed. I speak from direct knowledge of this as I have been in every aspect of real estate including rental agent, real estate law, title company, I likely helped design the software the agent and bank are using to deal with you and I tell you, that contract is a joke.

But wait, that answers your question. The reason they will not show you anything else is they do not want to invest their time into a "maybe I will make a commission" You are not a warm lead to them and it could be their way to blow you off (likely is as I worked with an agent that told me it was how he did that).

Personally, I look on MLS (and every other source I can find like landwatch, kijiji, etc) and the ones I am interested in I drive by, if I need more info I call the listing agent but give them no info about me as a purchaser (because remember at that point they are the seller's agent, not yours). Regarding financing, go directly to the bank/lender. Regarding contracts, find a real estate lawyer.


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## Bellyman (Jul 6, 2013)

Thanks, John. I appreciate your input.

I do a lot of looking online. Most times, I can get an address and sometimes I can get an idea of where property lines are. But not always. Mapping software does tend to get addresses wrong at times.

Drive-by's are not all that useful to me mainly because I want a property that can't easily be seen from the road. If I can see it real well from the road, I don't want it. I want my privacy and seclusion, thank you very much. 

Aerial maps are sometimes quite helpful if there are some pictures on the ad listing. If they're good enough, I can sometimes find a place even with a wrong address but not always. Those birds eye views also give me an idea of where the neighbors are located. I've seen what looked like wonderful properties that conveniently left out the detail that the dozen houses or so behind you all use your driveway which happens to be 15 feet from your house or the neighbors have their house right next to your property's boundary and right next to you despite the 50 acres of privacy that no one thought to build on. 

It's very possible that my requirements are stringent enough and that my budget is small enough that there just aren't that many properties available to show me. I can live with that. But I also know there are a few more I want to go see that narry a realtor yet has suggested we go see.

Anyway, my wife and I have taken a little break from the serious boots-on-the-ground looking. (We still look online.) We're in "add to the savings account" mode, which is better than nothing and we're surviving the working nights part, which isn't my favorite thing to do but it's $$.


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## nostawmama (Dec 29, 2011)

I can feel your pain. My husband and I have been dealing with realtors/agents off and on for YEARS! Every one that I work with actually lowers my opinion of them even more. I am sure that finding a good one is possible but honestly I think my chances of catching a unicorn are greater.....

I have never been able to go to a realtor with what I was looking for and have them give me anything that I had not already found myself. I have called and asked for general condition and the listing agent has not even been in the place. I have a huge problem with agents that think that I really don't need to know the acreage of the place. I mean really, why would you list a property without knowing how much land is there?

Oops. Sorry for the soapbox speech...:soap:


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## ChristieAcres (Apr 11, 2009)

I am sure sorry for those with bad Agent or Realtor experiences. There is no excuse for it! When folks are selling or buying homes, it is a serious and momentous decision in their lives. Agent or Realtors that don't get that and can't offer good service, shouldn't be in the business at all.

I don't require Buyer's Agent Agreements. I feel if my Clients wish to work with me and are pleased with my service, they will retain me. If not, they won't. That should be a choice. Also, I only show my own listing to a prospective Buyer if it fits his criteria. However, at the same time, I will also show all other listings fitting that criteria, regardless which Broker has listed them. My sales record proves this. Also, when I list homes, I'll list mobiles, condo's, townhouses, low end homes, high end homes, acreage properties, etc... I represent Buyers in all income brackets, too.

Lately, I am hearing more and more complaints, even locally, about the issues people are having with their Agents or Realtors.


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## wharton (Oct 9, 2011)

John Canada really has some solid advice here. As an active investor and builder, I wasted time doing business with a big, successful and extremely scummy agency. The owner demanded that all agents present a buyer's agent agreement to just about anybody who walked in the door. Funniest part was that the vast majority of potential clients had reactions from, "sorry we are not interested" to "Are you serious, what kind of an idiot would sign this? we are done here".

Although the profession has many competent, honest folks, I think many of them are a bit too rosy in their opinion of their fellow agents, and really loath admitting the truth. That truth being that a significant minority of the field is polluted by incompetent, lazy and untrustworthy clowns. Far too many times, I have seen deals collapse, or buyers and sellers suffer needless stress, simply because one agent in the deal simply was not suitable for the job. Far too often I have had to spend my time doing an agent's job FOR them, or end up babysitting the whole process to make sure that they were unable to continue dropping the ball. 

The whole concept of "listers" and "sellers" is interesting. It can be really tough to determine who is who, but it's important. IMHE, it would be fair to say that the majority are hoping to get you to sign the contract, and sit back and wait for somebody else to close the deal. It's kind of pathetic to see what could be, and all the lost opportunities for many who make their careers in the field. Over the last few years I have watched the careers of two agents that I have done extensive business with. During the boom, they both made a ton of coin. Now one has become a broker/owner who went from zero to 20 million in sales in less than two years. The other is working, part time, at Lowe's to make ends meet. The successful one takes a listing and works it like a bull. The other is a lister.

John's last paragraph nicely sums up the philosophy I would take in your search. Find potential properties, speak to the seller's agent and keep the conversation limited to the facts regarding the listing, evaluate the info. and move on. Along the way you might run into a really good agent, but don't expect it. Good luck.


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## John_Canada (Aug 17, 2013)

Bellyman said:


> Anyway, my wife and I have taken a little break from the serious boots-on-the-ground looking. (We still look online.) We're in "add to the savings account" mode, which is better than nothing and we're surviving the working nights part, which isn't my favorite thing to do but it's $$.


This is sometimes the best thing to do. My wife and I have done the same for now as we have literally looked at all possible properties in our range and the most promising have either sold or have too many issues to contend with.

I didnt mean to put you off R/E agents as there are a few that can and will help (I wish you were in our area @loriechristie). I tend to deal with the listing agent of the property I am looking at because they are more than happy to give you info as they will potentially make full comm if they do. I have yet to have one suggest I sign a buyer&#8217;s agreement. I think it is becoming a dated concept and should have never been suggested in the first place. If someone shows me a property, they get the commission. Otherwise, no, we have no financial obligation to them. If the contract said that, I would have no problem signing it but I actually helped write the language of many modern real estate contracts and there are so many hidden things (purposely hidden). In the case of title insurance, a majority of the policy you receive is in fact a list of everything they do NOT cover and then in the end have a clause that basically says if the government does not require us to cover, we have the option to not cover it. I would not trust an agent&#8217;s contract in a million years. Never even trust the purchaser contracts as their governing group wrote it (not the govt). I would write my own and sign it and let them chose to sign it or not. Most will not. There is much much more about contracts I can tell you that I learned from a very sagely lawyer, but the shorter the contract the better. I have seen one page Wills that cover more than 25 page wills and that should tell you something. <point is you can edit a contract someone puts before you and I do recommend doing so. if an agent says it is just a standard contract say well one-size doesnt fit all in clothes, why should a contract. Most people have no idea their right to do so, standard contract or not! I edited one word in an employment contract once that meant the difference of $100K income over 10 years. One word!>

There is much more underneath this idea maybe I will mention for others:

1) There is a book called boom-bust-echo that predicted an issue with farm land demand and a raising in price (right now) because the baby-boomer generation is the largest segment of the population, they were the most successful financially thru their lives (gen-xers basically got screwed because of riding their tail) and saved up their pennies and now want to move to a semi-rural area. It is VERY predictable. It is what created every boom in real estate since the generation was old enough to buy a house. The subject of real estate demographics is super interesting to study and is today's modern fortune teller, I do recommending studying it. My wife and I both know if we do not buy in the next 2 years...we likely cannot afford it.

2) What this will do is create higher and higher prices on smaller to mid size farms within a given distance to "civilization" In the past year, farm land around us has increased 22% (in one year, sheesh!) and sometimes sells before the listing hits the MLS.

3) So my theory is agents with the farm listings are sort of at the top end of the demand/supply and do not really have to show the properties because their commissions are virtually guaranteed. I have an agent friend that actually only deals in farmland now. Very strange as 10 years ago he would have been laughed at.

4) Insurance companies use this same filtering tactic. Actually most marketing does. Insurance companies will typically give you a higher quote than normal just to high-risk persons so they they go somewhere else. Many agents do the same with the question "when are you looking at purchasing your property?" Very common tactic.

5) I have dealt with many good agents (and have rewarded them with leads and sales commissions), but mostly bad agents. One in particular, the opposing party&#8217;s lawyer suggested I sue the agent that's how bad/dishonest his tactics were to make his commission. I can really understand how they get to be that way because there is literally 2,000 agents in my city alone fighting for VERY few sales. This competition level is what has kept me from becoming an agent even though I have the complete training to do so. I've made more from selling leads to agents than 90% of agents make in my city.

6) Regarding knowing the boundaries. Sometimes there are detailed property maps provided by conservation authorities or even just city hall tax dept that will give you an exact boundary of a property. You can easily match those to Google Maps and use the measuring tool in google maps to determine what you need. Again from experience in real estate law, the description the agent uses is wrong maybe 25% of the time and they are using an old sale or title to create their listing and perpetuate that data. It is a lawyer or title searchers job to make sense of what you are really buying but most of the time, the city&#8217;s tax records are correct and in my area free to obtain. If you can at least get a PIN number from an agent, you can do your own homework.

7) Regarding your comment about the shared driveways, that is so weird and rarely done here because a lawyer would tell you not to buy the property in that situation. In my area, a property is required to have access to it either by government owned property (or even by water) but a piece of land cannot be &#8220;landlocked&#8221; or surrounded by properties not owned by the govt with no access. What has occurred tho is some properties were given an access over tribal land the owners cut off access but the govt came and took the laneway back from the tribal owners in order their owners could have access (more accurately made them rent the laneway to the landlocked owners). I am with you on this tho as I do not want close neighbours.

Anyway, that is a more detailed explanation of what i said earlier. Sorry about the lengthy reply. Hope it helps you and anyone else searching for property.


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## mnn2501 (Apr 2, 2008)

lorichristie said:


> Lately, I am hearing more and more complaints, even locally, about the issues people are having with their Agents or Realtors.


I believe there are too many people who think selling real estate would be something good to try and get a license but really know nothing about running a successful real estate business(and I am talking RE business as an agent not a broker). They treat it as a part time job and not a career to make a good living as.


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## Bellyman (Jul 6, 2013)

John_Canada said:


> This is sometimes the best thing to do. My wife and I have done the same for now as we have literally looked at all possible properties in our range and the most promising have either sold or have too many issues to contend with.
> 
> I didnt mean to put you off R/E agents as there are a few that can and will help (I wish you were in our area @loriechristie). I tend to deal with the listing agent of the property I am looking at because they are more than happy to give you info as they will potentially make full comm if they do. I have yet to have one suggest I sign a buyerâs agreement. I think it is becoming a dated concept and should have never been suggested in the first place. If someone shows me a property, they get the commission. Otherwise, no, we have no financial obligation to them. If the contract said that, I would have no problem signing it but I actually helped write the language of many modern real estate contracts and there are so many hidden things (purposely hidden). In the case of title insurance, a majority of the policy you receive is in fact a list of everything they do NOT cover and then in the end have a clause that basically says if the government does not require us to cover, we have the option to not cover it. I would not trust an agentâs contract in a million years. Never even trust the purchaser contracts as their governing group wrote it (not the govt). I would write my own and sign it and let them chose to sign it or not. Most will not. There is much much more about contracts I can tell you that I learned from a very sagely lawyer, but the shorter the contract the better. I have seen one page Wills that cover more than 25 page wills and that should tell you something. <point is you can edit a contract someone puts before you and I do recommend doing so. if an agent says it is just a standard contract say well one-size doesnt fit all in clothes, why should a contract. Most people have no idea their right to do so, standard contract or not! I edited one word in an employment contract once that meant the difference of $100K income over 10 years. One word!>
> 
> ...


John,

Thank you for the lengthy reply!!


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## o&itw (Dec 19, 2008)

goatlady said:


> You can hire a realtor to work only for you - not a seller. Find one that will do a "Buyer's Agent" agreement - that realtor will show properties you are interested in, not his/her listings. Some charge a flat fee some do not, but all still share the regular commission splits.
> 
> Being a former realtor, I'm surprised you seem to have forgotten that little bit of info.


There can be a problem with this. We had a "buyer's agent" untill recently. She was terrific in getting us information, but when we finally found the place we wanted, I think having such an agent lost it for us. The property had just come on the market, and we were there the first day it was shown. The listing agent aslo showed it to a couple of people.

We immediately made an offer (and it was substatnially higher than most offers were being made on similar properties) As it turned out, two people made offers that weekend, and the other interested people (represented by the property lister) got it for $500 more than we offered.

I can't be sure, but knowing the extent of our offer, I suspect that the lister likely "leaked" the amount of our offer to her buyer, as it made her a substantial amount of money not to lose half of the commission. I suspect that if the pproperty had been listed for months it wouldn't have been a problem. I don't think the listing realator actually told the other people the price we offered, more likely just said " I think you will have to offer at least XXXXXX dollars to get it.


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## goatlady (May 31, 2002)

and why would you think the offer amount should be a big secret? The sellers want the best price they can get and it is within THEIR purvue to tell a 2nd offer that it needs to be more offered if they want the purchase. Known as a bidding war, highest offer gets the property. Happens many times when the market is up and running.


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## wharton (Oct 9, 2011)

goatlady said:


> and why would you think the offer amount should be a big secret? The sellers want the best price they can get and it is within THEIR purvue to tell a 2nd offer that it needs to be more offered if they want the purchase. Known as a bidding war, highest offer gets the property. Happens many times when the market is up and running.


sounds to me like the "buyer's agent" didn't step up to the plate to engage in a bidding contest, and that in the end, the seller got screwed, as did the potential buyer who would of not let it slip away over a few hundred bucks....... nothing unusual about that screw up.


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## DAVID In Wisconsin (Dec 3, 2002)

I guess that I'm lucky as I have a good, trustworthy re agent that I've worked with for about 5 years now. He shows me properties, tells me what he thinks then just let's me decide with zero pressure.


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## Waiting Falcon (Nov 25, 2010)

The RE agents in this area will not disclose offers made by other people.
I have also had the privilege to meet a few honest realtors. One warned me about dishonest RE in the realty chain so i would not get burned.
Another spent the day showing us property trying to make up for the bad experiences we had in the past. He was required by his RE office to have us sign a contract before he showed us any property and his boss watched us sign it. When she turned her back he trashed the paper...
I have had enough bad experiences with Realtors that I am still leery of any dealings with them. It is a shame that a few bad apples can spoil the whole industry.


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## ChristieAcres (Apr 11, 2009)

> The RE agents in this area will not disclose offers made by other people.


As a Realtor, representing a Seller, I can disclose there is an Offer on a property, but I cannot disclose the amount of that offer (or offers).


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## HOTW (Jul 3, 2007)

I would find out the law on this you might very well be entitlesd to a cut of the commision if there is no contract you have with anyone. You could be considering this a sale by owner with a small comission to the showing realtor... Ask questions of a real estate lawyer and get to the bottom of the truth as it pertains to you. The realtors are mucking around with you and they deserve anythin you can dish up


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## John_Canada (Aug 17, 2013)

sidepasser said:


> I am going to call my real estate attorney in the morning. Something isn't right.
> 
> Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk 2


Likely you need a document that basically says you and your realtor call it quits. Most sign it if there is not an offer on the table because they figure you have ultimate veto power and anyone they already showed the house to and later buys it they are entitled to the commission either way.

As it stands I can tell you exactly what will happen (but get a lawyer immediately!). They are going to write 6% comm on the offer (prob already there somewhere) and the showing agent will claim 3% and your ex agent will get 3%. Doesnt mean you have to accept it. Something feels weird, walk away and get that paper signed by ex agent. Cut all ties to him/her including possible buyers they introduced to you. It will open a new door for you.

Always remember, we are entering a time that will make rural properties way way more valuable as time goes on as supply/demand on these properties are now reversed (to the tune of being up in value 23% in one year in some areas).


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## DarleneJ (Jan 29, 2012)

joe&katie said:


> *I prefer to do my searching online, go and visit the place without a realtor, and then contact the realtor if I want to see inside. With all the online resources these days, I can quickly dispense with places that won't fit my needs without even talking to an agent until I'm seriously interested.[/*QUOTE]
> 
> This. Unfortunately, most realtors aren't worth the hassle. You can't find their weaknesses w/o utilizing their services most of the time. Moving to a new area makes it difficult to get a good reference. Ask me how I found houses that our realtor didn't is beyond me, except for pure laziness and disorganization on the realtor's part. We went through three of them before finding one that could at least move if I lit a fire under his butt.
> 
> ...


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## Molly Mckee (Jul 8, 2006)

All I can say is be careful!!

One of our friends had his place for sale as they moved to TX. The realtor never showed the house, even to the other realtors. Three weeks before the contract ended they rented the house to people that had never meet or called the realtor. This year, over a year later, the renters bought the house. Just before closing they discovered that the realtor had a lein on the house for her commission. Since the renters rented the place while the contract was still in place and then bought it a year later, the realtor wanted her commission. They would have had to go to court to get the lien removed to close as the realtor flatly refused anything less than full commission, so they ended up paying her. Be careful.


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## John_Canada (Aug 17, 2013)

Very strange. I would certainly consult a lawyer because the agents must know something you do not or something would have been said about commissions. An agent is not going to bring a buyer without somehow getting paid (unless they are being paid by buyer but not likely). They will likely present you with a document that basically says you agree to be represented by us on this specific client only in exchange for x%. I know there is an agent on this board that can prob tell you more but I would certainly ask the lawyer.


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## Grumpy old man (Aug 6, 2013)

There is no law that says you have to have a realtor to buy or sell so if your intelligent enough to have good credit and afford a home do it yourself and forget about commissions for work that anyone can do alone , the title company will take care of the liens and access for you .


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## Evons hubby (Oct 3, 2005)

sidepasser said:


> I have a question about realtors. I fired my realtor a couple of months ago as the firm did not show my property AT ALL the entire last 12 months. The showings that happened were done by myself, so I figured..what the hay, I'll do a FSBO.
> 
> Ok..fast forward..out of the blue a couple of weeks after I terminated the realty agreement (at the time of termination, we were going forward on a month to month basis until I terminated) I get a call asking if they can show the property as they have someone "truly interested".
> 
> ...


Ok, this sounds fairly legit to me. R/E brokers quite often work together to make a sale. Its called co-brokering. In todays real estate market, having a property go unsold for a year is really no big deal... there just arent many buyers for the amount of property out there. As to the dickering... it sounds like your buyer engaged a "buyers broker", very common place today, although that whole thing left a nasty taste in my mouth back when I was involved in the game. It is their job to get the property for the buyer as cheaply as they can. This is normal negotiations going on.... and believe me its a much bigger pain to the agent than it is to you or the buyer! Your agent represents your best interests... right after his/hers  The buyers agent supposedly represents the buyers best interests... which is where I always had a problem with it. Lots of room there for a conflict of interest. As to the commission... That will most likely be split between both offices. Now, as to what the land will be used for... sorry, but when/if you sell it, you no longer have a say in that. Or at least you wouldnt if I were the buyer. As a buyer I would expect all rights and control of the property to be mine from that day forward... thats what ownership means. Put the shoe on the other foot, would you want to have the buyer tell you what you can spend "their" money on after they give it to you for the property? Didnt think so.


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## Evons hubby (Oct 3, 2005)

sidepasser said:


> Nothing was stated regarding commission to anyone. Does that get put in another document?


That really should have been in your original listing contract. The laws vary somewhat from state to state, but in my state if it isnt written.... it doesnt exist when it comes to any real estate contract as far as real estate commission rules are concerned. However judges are not bound by the real estate commission and may very well rule that you had a verbal contract, and you owe your realtor a commission if the property were to sell to anyone they had shown it to.


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## Grumpy old man (Aug 6, 2013)

:hammer: Realtors in collusion with one another ? Say it isn't so ,How could anyone with a commission based salary what you to pay more ?


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## Grumpy old man (Aug 6, 2013)

if your selling land and I have many times what they do with it once you take the check is really none of your business (not you personally but anyone ) That's why it's called SELLING if you want someone to continue the conservatorism ideals of the land give it away to a like minded individual or take the check and enjoy life .Your only entitled to "feel" good about the $ amount on the check all other bets are off !


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## Evons hubby (Oct 3, 2005)

sidepasser said:


> Just thought it very strange that the contract I was sent to sign agreeing to sell, had NO listing of realtor fees. Had everything else though, 8 pages of terms and conditions. I read it all over again, nothing regarding the realtor's fees.


That is because the sales contract is between you and the potential buyer, not the realtor. There is a separate contract (listing) between you and the realtor, or sometimes the buyer and their realtor. That is where you will find the terms of your deal with them.


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## Molly Mckee (Jul 8, 2006)

Do you have to repay the adjusted property taxes if the property is not kept in the conservation program for a specified amount of time? If so I would be sure they would not come after me. We have have land in programs that had to be kept in the program for a specified length of time and the person that saved the money on taxes was responsible if the agreement was voided. That left some nasty bills sometimes.


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