# Cops...



## Shine (Feb 19, 2011)

If we are to believe that Cops are out there for our protection then why do things like this happen?

http://pubsys.miamiherald.com/static/media/projects/2015/license-to-launder/index.html

"In the end, they made no arrests of their own, and ended up returning all the money they laundered to the criminal groups. They also withdrew $1 million in cash with no records to show where the money went â and struck millions in additional money-laundering deals that were never disclosed."
Read more here: http://pubsys.miamiherald.com/static/media/projects/2015/license-to-launder/index.html#storylink=cpy​


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## plowjockey (Aug 18, 2008)

I believe that Cops are out there for our protection, but I also believe Cops are human, just like everybody else.

Doing a very dangerous job, for not a lot of money, trying to do a job, they know will not make any real difference - at all, it's not too hard to believe, that there would be a tendency, to get "sticky fingers", when wading knee-deep, in illicit cash.

Justifying their actions? No. Understanding their actions? sure.


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## AmericanStand (Jul 29, 2014)

Plowjockey has it right. 
Cops are people. In enough time they succumb to their temptations and fears just like anybody else. They have their flaws and given enough time they will make mistakes. 
Obviously those results are not what we want but if you give anybody enough rope usually they hang themselves.


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## bluemoonluck (Oct 28, 2008)

If we are to believe that teachers are there to teach our children than why do things like this happen?

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/news/teacher-molested-students/

If we are to believe that pastors are there to preach the word of God and save souls than why do things like this happen?

http://www.wsmv.com/story/19606105/pastor-arrested-on-money-laundering-charges

You can find stories from any profession highlighting the actions of the 5% of "bad" whatevers (cops, teachers, ministers, lawyers, etc).


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## wiscto (Nov 24, 2014)

plowjockey said:


> I believe that Cops are out there for our protection, but I also believe Cops are human, just like everybody else.
> 
> Doing a very dangerous job, for not a lot of money, trying to do a job, they know will not make any real difference - at all, it's not too hard to believe, that there would be a tendency, to get "sticky fingers", when wading knee-deep, in illicit cash.
> 
> Justifying their actions? No. Understanding their actions? sure.


Cops in Wisconsin make $20-$26 an hour starting. _Starting_. On top of that, they avoided Walker's pay-cut-in-disguise and still have better pension/insurance than most upper management level people do. 

So I don't know about Miami. But any corrupt Wisconsin cop would have absolutely no excuse.


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## AmericanStand (Jul 29, 2014)

$40 grand is a lot of money ?


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## poppy (Feb 21, 2008)

AmericanStand said:


> $40 grand is a lot of money ?


If he is married with kids, his wife had also better have a $40K job if they expect to own a decent home, a couple vehicles, utilities, insurance, taxes, and all the other things that go with the middle class lifestyle.


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## LT2108 (May 28, 2014)

This is absolutely what is wrong with America today, and the reason why, there is hatred and dismay towards LE today. 

Are there bad cops, you bet your rear end there is, just as there is bad construction workers, factory workers, librarians, the list goes on.

To post these things, just gives fuel to the fire. I am 100 percent sure, i can post a positive LE story, everytime a negative one is posted, but we don't do it, it doesn't get attention as it does, to slam LE at every turn.

This is truly disgusting.


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## coolrunnin (Aug 28, 2010)

US median family income is only 53,000 on the high end, the spouse doesn't have to have much job to meet that.


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## kuriakos (Oct 7, 2005)

glock26USMC said:


> This is absolutely what is wrong with America today, and the reason why, there is hatred and dismay towards LE today.
> 
> *Are there bad cops, you bet your rear end there is, just as there is bad construction workers, factory workers, librarians, the list goes on.*
> 
> ...


But those bad construction workers, factory workers, librarians, etc. don't have the power that police do. We need to hold police to a much higher standard than we hold librarians. If the librarian had a library-issued gun and the power to pull me over and detain me because they suspect me of having an overdue book, I'd hold them to the same standard as police.


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## wiscto (Nov 24, 2014)

AmericanStand said:


> $40 grand is a lot of money ?


That's their starting wage. STARTING. WAGE. I think everyone here understands the difference, right? That's their starting salary at age 20-22 after they get their tech degrees or CJ degrees. And who said anything about making "a lot" of money. They make enough. They make more than most people make on day one of their first real job. They retire young compared to most people. They live a middle class lifestyle. What the heck do you want from the tax payers? You want patrol cops to make 100 grand starting? Yea they generally need their spouses to work, just like everyone else, if they want to afford that big two story in the new subdivision.......but so freaking what?


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## LT2108 (May 28, 2014)

kuriakos said:


> But those bad construction workers, factory workers, librarians, etc. don't have the power that police do. We need to hold police to a much higher standard than we hold librarians. If the librarian had a library-issued gun and the power to pull me over and detain me because they suspect me of having an overdue book, I'd hold them to the same standard as police.


Did i just read this?

Really?


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## LT2108 (May 28, 2014)

wiscto said:


> That's their starting wage. STARTING. WAGE. I think everyone here understands the difference, right? That's their starting salary at age 20-22 after they get their tech degrees or CJ degrees. And who said anything about making "a lot" of money. They make enough. They make more than most people make on day one of their first real job. They retire young compared to most people. They live a middle class lifestyle. What the heck do you want from the tax payers? You want patrol cops to make 100 grand starting? Yea they generally need their spouses to work, just like everyone else, if they want to afford that big two story in the new subdivision.......but so freaking what?


.............


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## wiscto (Nov 24, 2014)

glock26USMC said:


> Did i just read this?
> 
> Really?


No offense, but maybe you shouldn't be a cop if you have a problem with that. Half the cops I know hold everyone else to a higher standard than they hold themselves. They drink and drive. Speed. Use their party lights to get through a red light so they can park the squad car and get home in time for Celebrity Jeopardy.... But you don't think that, given we pay YOU with OUR tax dollars to behave appropriately with the authority WE gave YOU.....that we shouldn't hold you to a higher standard? You think we should have the same standards for you as we have for the kid taking out the trash at McDonald's? Sorry, but that just isn't realistic. At all.


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## wiscto (Nov 24, 2014)

glock26USMC said:


> .............


Yea you almost got me there. Because I'm realistic about salaries I must hate you. You really believe that because I think cops in Wisconsin make enough money, that I hate you? You think you deserve more than that?

You didn't take the ACT, did you...


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## kuriakos (Oct 7, 2005)

glock26USMC said:


> Did i just read this?
> 
> Really?


I don't know. Did you? Your response gives no indication either way whether you read it or not.


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## Shine (Feb 19, 2011)

glock26USMC said:


> To post these things, just gives fuel to the fire. I am 100 percent sure, i can post a positive LE story, everytime a negative one is posted, but we don't do it, it doesn't get attention as it does, to slam LE at every turn.
> 
> This is truly disgusting.


Due to the situation that I am in I can tell you that there is indeed a mix of good and bad. I am quite often in need of their service and I will tell you that often the ones that come to my aid are truly good cops, however, sometimes cops will show up and the one that is driving the situation will have backup and right from the start they seemingly have a collective attitude. While I am not the one being treated badly, I am right there on the front line watching and hearing what is going on.

I only ask why the bad remain if the good ones are truly "good". It would seem contrary for the "good" cops to work side by side with the bad cops. Would you not agree? 

So, you see, I am not here to slam LE at all, I am curious as to the above. 31 years of being in the IT field and I know for a fact that the ones within my department(s) were dealt with when they crossed the line, why not in LE?


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## wiscto (Nov 24, 2014)

Shine said:


> Due to the situation that I am in I can tell you that there is indeed a mix of good and bad. I am quite often in need of their service and I will tell you that often the ones that come to my aid are truly good cops, however, sometimes cops will show up and the one that is driving the situation will have backup and right from the start they seemingly have a collective attitude. While I am not the one being treated badly, I am right there on the front line watching and hearing what is going on.
> 
> I only ask why the bad remain if the good ones are truly "good". It would seem contrary for the "good" cops to work side by side with the bad cops. Would you not agree?
> 
> So, you see, I am not here to slam LE at all, I am curious as to the above. 31 years of being in the IT field and I know for a fact that the ones within my department(s) were dealt with when they crossed the line, why not in LE?


It's because they need manpower, they need people to have their back on and off duty, and at a certain point they choose to hire somebody over nobody. Not saying it's a great situation, but that's what it is.


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## Shine (Feb 19, 2011)

If you are correct then I would suggest that it is unconscionable to put "somebody" in a position where they hold in their hands the possibility of life and death and that we will depend upon the capacity for instant decisions that uphold a certain level of mindful thinking. Isn't that reasonable?


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## Mish (Oct 15, 2015)

Shine said:


> If you are correct then I would suggest that it is unconscionable to put "somebody" in a position where they hold in their hands the possibility of life and death and that we will depend upon the capacity for instant decisions that uphold a certain level of mindful thinking. Isn't that reasonable?


Sure it is. But if you think that most qualified, mindful people are going to be willing to spend the money/time to get a college degree, take a job making less than a lot of teachers, starting, with the risk getting injured/killed on or having to injure/kill someone else on any given day...well, most won't. Some do, because they feel a calling, but most are going to take that cushy, decent salary IT job instead. And then you end up filling the job slots with the applicants you have. It's not a mystery.


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

Shine said:


> If you are correct then I would suggest that it is unconscionable to put "somebody" in a position where they hold in their hands the possibility of life and death and that we will depend upon the capacity for instant decisions that uphold *a certain level of mindful thinking*. Isn't that reasonable?


They all have to meet the same hiring standards.
Maybe they show an attitude because you call them a lot?


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## AmericanStand (Jul 29, 2014)

wiscto said:


> That's their starting wage. STARTING. WAGE. I think everyone here understands the difference, right? That's their starting salary at age 20-22 after they get their tech degrees or CJ degrees. And who said anything about making "a lot" of money. They make enough. They make more than most people make on day one of their first real job. They retire young compared to most people. They live a middle class lifestyle. What the heck do you want from the tax payers? You want patrol cops to make 100 grand starting? Yea they generally need their spouses to work, just like everyone else, if they want to afford that big two story in the new subdivision.......but so freaking what?



I think it's important to pay a wage that will attract good people and help them resist the urge to supplement their wages illegally. 
I expect a lot of a cop and expect to have to pay for it.


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## wiscto (Nov 24, 2014)

AmericanStand said:


> I think it's important to pay a wage that will attract good people and help them resist the urge to supplement their wages illegally.
> I expect a lot of a cop and expect to have to pay for it.


Yea okay. How much do you think you will make, starting salary, as an accountant straight out of college in Wisconsin and most of the rest of the country? 35 grand a year if you land a job at a major corporation. Cops do get raises, ya know. Starting at 40 grand a year when you're 22 years old is pretty good. I fail to see how anyone can fail to understand that. In Wisconsin, the cost of living is around average. This isn't a coast.


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## Mish (Oct 15, 2015)

wiscto said:


> Yea okay. How much do you think you will make, starting salary, as an accountant straight out of college in Wisconsin and most of the rest of the country? 35 grand a year if you land a job at a major corporation. Cops do get raises, ya know. Starting at 40 grand a year when you're 22 years old is pretty good. I fail to see how anyone can fail to understand that. In Wisconsin, the cost of living is around average. This isn't a coast.


So for an extra 5 grand a year, I can deal with people being jerks all day, have people yell at me for what I do, get assaulted in any manner of ways randomly depending on what type of call I go on, worry every time I pull a car over or answer a call that someone might shoot me or my partner...

Or I could sit at a desk and not worry about any of that, and be pretty sure I'll make it home to my family every night, for about $400/month less. Hmm, let me think about that. Hard.


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## wiscto (Nov 24, 2014)

Mish said:


> So for an extra 5 grand a year, I can deal with people being jerks all day, have people yell at me for what I do, get assaulted in any manner of ways randomly depending on what type of call I go on, worry every time I pull a car over or answer a call that someone might shoot me or my partner...
> 
> Or I could sit at a desk and not worry about any of that, and be pretty sure I'll make it home to my family every night, for about $400/month less. Hmm, let me think about that. Hard.


I didn't say cops were cowards. I said they make a decent living. People who don't have what it takes generally wont' do it even for 90k a year. Just like most people won't sign up to pick up the trash even though most "sanitation engineers" where I grew up made 60k a year for what, honestly, is a pretty easy job with very little responsibility. Consistent hours. Full state benefits. OT opportunities in other city jobs like plowing. And it isn't like you really have to touch a four year old burrito with no gloves on, that kind of stuff is mostly just in everyone's imagination.


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## AmericanStand (Jul 29, 2014)

Wow wisco you seem to be denigrating everybody's job. 
Did you know that being a trash man is one of the most dangerous there is ? I think it usually is like the fourth most dangerous in the country but it may haves moved up to 3 rd.


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## AmericanStand (Jul 29, 2014)

Mish said:


> Or I could sit at a desk and not worry about any of that, and be pretty sure I'll make it home to my family every night, .



Actually police work is nearly as safe as that accountant. It's not even in the top 25 most dangerous jobs.


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## Elevenpoint (Nov 17, 2009)

AmericanStand said:


> Plowjockey has it right.
> Cops are people. In enough time they succumb to their temptations and fears just like anybody else. They have their flaws and given enough time they will make mistakes.
> Obviously those results are not what we want but if you give anybody enough rope usually they hang themselves.


On 60 minutes a few weekend's ago...Lesley Stahl interviewed Michael Caine...and asked him about playing "bad" characters...he said no..people are not bad..just weak...in all walks of life...including me.


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## Mish (Oct 15, 2015)

wiscto said:


> I didn't say cops were cowards. I said they make a decent living. People who don't have what it takes generally wont' do it even for 90k a year. Just like most people won't sign up to pick up the trash even though most "sanitation engineers" where I grew up made 60k a year for what, honestly, is a pretty easy job with very little responsibility. Consistent hours. Full state benefits. OT opportunities in other city jobs like plowing. And it isn't like you really have to touch a four year old burrito with no gloves on, that kind of stuff is mostly just in everyone's imagination.


I in no way read you saying cops were cowards. What I was pointing out was that there is a difference between a job where you risk very little and a job where you could possibly be risking everything, every day. I'm implying that the pay difference between those two jobs could, perhaps, be a little more to attract more qualified applicants.

I'll take your word for it that it's a decent starting salary in WI, but, if you're expecting higher standards and higher quality applicants, you might offer pay that would make me think a little harder about doing a job that might get me killed every single time I go to work. 

Something to think about. What's a good police force worth to you? That's the question everyone is trying to get you to really think about, in a realistic way.


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## wiscto (Nov 24, 2014)

AmericanStand said:


> Wow wisco you seem to be denigrating everybody's job.
> Did you know that being a trash man is one of the most dangerous there is ? I think it usually is like the fourth most dangerous in the country but it may haves moved up to 3 rd.


Yea that's right. Be a typical American and sensationalize everything I'm saying. Use words like "denigrating" because I said it's a fairly easy job with consistent hours and good pay. Maybe it's more dangerous than I thought. Maybe you all want to keep diverting away from the fact that these people make pretty good money, live solid middle class lives, and have no real reason to commit crimes like pension fraud if they really believe in what they are doing, if they really wanted to serve. Maybe we should bankrupt the country paying our cops, trash men, soldiers, and firefighters 6 figure salaries starting pay so that they do their jobs the right way.

Or maybe you can just accept the facts as I'm giving them to you. They make a decent living....


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## wiscto (Nov 24, 2014)

Mish said:


> I in no way read you saying cops were cowards. What I was pointing out was that there is a difference between a job where you risk very little and a job where you could possibly be risking everything, every day. I'm implying that the pay difference between those two jobs could, perhaps, be a little more to attract more qualified applicants.
> 
> I'll take your word for it that it's a decent starting salary in WI, but, if you're expecting higher standards and higher quality applicants, you might offer pay that would make me think a little harder about doing a job that might get me killed every single time I go to work.
> 
> Something to think about. What's a good police force worth to you? That's the question everyone is trying to get you to really think about, in a realistic way.


And I'm saying people do those jobs because they want to serve. I want them to want to serve. I want them to be good people who are happy with a middle class living and good insurance policies. I'm saying that's what we have, so I'm not going to listen to this woe is me crap when I hear about pension fraud, civil asset forfeiture, and other crimes committed by people who swore to uphold the law...


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## Mish (Oct 15, 2015)

AmericanStand said:


> Actually police work is nearly as safe as that accountant. It's not even in the top 25 most dangerous jobs.


Nation-wide? You're probably right. Location dependent? Probably not.

I'm sure cops where I live have a much more dangerous life than cops where wistco lives. Accountants, too, possibly  Regardless, an accountant doesn't go to work every day knowing full and well a time may come when he/she has to put himself/herself in harms way so that someone else is safe. The accountant gets to hide under the desk and call the cop to come put himself/herself in harms way to save the accountant if some crappy thing happens. Forgive me for thinking that the cop deserves more pay for that.


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

AmericanStand said:


> Actually police work is nearly as safe as that accountant. * It's not even in the top 25 most dangerous jobs.*


Or is it?

http://www.cardozaplayer.com/article_details.php?cid=40&contentType=1&typeSub=0



> 14. Urban Cop
> Okay, enough with the jokes about the donuts and coffee. Being a cop, particularly an undercover, narcotics or vice cop in a U.S. urban city, is really dangerous. You?re dealing with gangs, criminals and drug dealers who will risk everything to protect their turf and their freedom. And they won?t necessarily mind taking your life to preserve their own.


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## wiscto (Nov 24, 2014)

I drove across one of the most dangerous bridges in the country for 5 years, with a major fatality just about every month. Somebody give me hundreds of thousands in back pay, please.

Seriously. We're all more likely to die in a car accident than every cop in this country is to die in a shootout. Yea it takes bravery to willingly walk into a house full of thugs who just happen to be a little amped up over a domestic dispute, and they already don't like cops very much. I get it. But you know what.... You're in greater danger driving home after your shift, just like the rest of us. I'm not saying narco cops in Miami-Dade shouldn't do a little better, I don't know what they make, but come on.


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## Mish (Oct 15, 2015)

wiscto said:


> And I'm saying people do those jobs because they want to serve. I want them to want to serve. I want them to be good people who are happy with a middle class living and good insurance policies. I'm saying that's what we have, so I'm not going to listen to this woe is me crap when I hear about pension fraud, civil asset forfeiture, and other crimes committed by people who swore to uphold the law...


I agree with you that we should hold them to higher standards. I think the full force of the law should be brought down on anyone that commits those crimes, and I really don't have a problem with the force being more for someone entrusted with the public faith (police, politicians, the whole shebang).

What I do have a problem with is people saying a barely living wage is enough compensation for someone who goes into the fire so you don't have to. That includes police, firemen, and military. Underpay them at your own peril...argue all you want but you're not going to get quality people who are willing to do the ugly things no one else is willing to do without offering them something worthwhile for it. It's just not realistic. Check out Mexico if you want to see the fruits of that type of thinking.


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## Mish (Oct 15, 2015)

wiscto said:


> I drove across one of the most dangerous bridges in the country for 5 years, with a major fatality just about every month. Somebody give me hundreds of thousands in back pay, please.
> 
> Seriously. We're all more likely to die in a car accident than every cop in this country is to die in a shootout. Yea it takes bravery to willingly walk into a house full of thugs who just happen to be a little amped up over a domestic dispute, and they already don't like cops very much. I get it. But you know what.... You're in greater danger driving home after your shift, just like the rest of us. I'm not saying narco cops in Miami-Dade shouldn't do a little better, I don't know what they make, but come on.


I'm not sure if you've ever lived anywhere outside of Wisconsin, but honestly I don't think you have any idea what an actual urban police officer's day is like. I grew up in Ohio, but have lived in many major urban areas from coast to coast since then and there are worlds and worlds and worlds of differences. I'm only assuming you really don't know that there are some pretty dangerous places to be a cop. And to drive a car. Both put together, enjoy. (Posted from the land of the incredible police chase videos, you're welcome, rest of the nation! lol)

Just curious, why didn't you become a police officer. Seems like you appreciate the pay and you don't think it's that hard of a job. Sincere curiosity.


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## wiscto (Nov 24, 2014)

Mish said:


> I'm not sure if you've ever lived anywhere outside of Wisconsin, but honestly I don't think you have any idea what an actual urban police officer's day is like. I grew up in Ohio, but have lived in many major urban areas from coast to coast since then and there are worlds and worlds and worlds of differences. I'm only assuming you really don't know that there are some pretty dangerous places to be a cop. And to drive a car. Both put together, enjoy. (Posted from the land of the incredible police chase videos, you're welcome, rest of the nation! lol)
> 
> Just curious, why didn't you become a police officer. Seems like you appreciate the pay and you don't think it's that hard of a job. Sincere curiosity.


Okay so... Milwaukee is in the top 10 most dangerous cities in the country by most standards. 

I didn't say that it "isn't that hard of a job." But since you're curious. I didn't become a cop because I went to college to get paid chump change while working with the exact same people in a more "reformative" setting. Actually, I worked with some of the worst of what the cops deal with. Only I did it on a daily basis for about 3 years, no minor traffic stops or BSing with the locals, just constantly dealing with major behavioral issues. I was attacked somewhat frequently, used the proper methods of de-escalation and restraint every time without deviation. Eventually I became severely cynical about the system; mostly with judges, social workers, and lawyers. I liked most of the cops I had to associate with, although a couple definitely had problems... When I quit that job I needed to take a step back. A big one. I took a mundane job, liked it, got some big ideas that I'm still working on today...and here I am. I thought about going back to tack on an LE degree, but I felt that a serious career would get in the way of my big ideas. 

I still consider going in as a reserve officer now and then.


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## plowjockey (Aug 18, 2008)

wiscto said:


> Cops in Wisconsin make $20-$26 an hour starting. _Starting_. On top of that, they avoided Walker's pay-cut-in-disguise and still have better pension/insurance than most upper management level people do.
> 
> So I don't know about Miami. But any corrupt Wisconsin cop would have absolutely no excuse.


I drive a truck and make more money than that.

Trust me, I'm not bragging.



> On top of that, they avoided Walker's pay-cut-in-disguise and still have better pension/insurance than most upper management level people do.


Is it a good idea, to cut Cop and firefighter wages/benefits?


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## plowjockey (Aug 18, 2008)

Being a Cop, must be an awesome job.

People are lining up, for the great pay, benefits and working conditions. 

https://www.google.com/?gws_rd=ssl#q=police+officer+shortage+2015


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## Mish (Oct 15, 2015)

wiscto said:


> Okay so... Milwaukee is in the top 10 most dangerous cities in the country by most standards.
> 
> I didn't say that it "isn't that hard of a job." But since you're curious. I didn't become a cop because I went to college to get paid chump change while working with the exact same people in a more "reformative" setting. Actually, I worked with some of the worst of what the cops deal with. Only I did it on a daily basis for about 3 years, no minor traffic stops or BSing with the locals, just constantly dealing with major behavioral issues. I was attacked somewhat frequently, used the proper methods of de-escalation and restraint every time without deviation. Eventually I became severely cynical about the system; mostly with judges, social workers, and lawyers. I liked most of the cops I had to associate with, although a couple definitely had problems... When I quit that job I needed to take a step back. A big one. I took a mundane job, liked it, got some big ideas that I'm still working on today...and here I am. I thought about going back to tack on an LE degree, but I felt that a serious career would get in the way of my big ideas.
> 
> I still consider going in as a reserve officer now and then.


Having the experience you've had, and admitting that you got cynical about the system...I would think you'd have a little more empathy for those who decide to keep on dealing with all that because somebody has to do it. I am really confused now, hearing your experience, that you don't think what they do is worth more than they get paid. 

I won't argue that Milwaukee might be dangerous, just wondering if they have standing orders not to wear identifying clothing (such as a jacket with patches, etc) while off duty (which includes driving to and from work) for fear that they or their family might get targeted specifically for being law enforcement while not on duty. That's the type of fun stuff going on here.


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## AmericanStand (Jul 29, 2014)

Bearfootfarm said:


> Or is it?
> 
> 
> 
> http://www.cardozaplayer.com/article_details.php?cid=40&contentType=1&typeSub=0



Lol oh come on would you accept that type of anecdotal sensationalism from any one else as evidence. 
Being a cop is pretty safe , would you like to make it a LOT safer ?
Take their CARS away. For some reason cops are some of the most unsafe drivers around and over half their fatalities are from their own at fault driving. 
Weird huh ? Why do you suppose that is ?


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## Shrek (May 1, 2002)

During the past 15 years or so I have seen four instances of area LEOs gone bad while still on their force and in all after they were brought up on charges by other officers, they were turned over to the nearby county Sheriff who is a retired federal agent for detention and prosecution. 

Of the four, the one who was a local chief and two others are doing time in the tainted blue cellblock of our state penitentiary and the fourth lost his job , lost his house and savings to pay his fines and became a homemaker as he did his home monitored probation at his in-laws home as his wife took over the position of bread winner for their family as he completed his DUI probation.

While the three are still in disgraced LEO lock up, the first offense DUI former officer has now completed his probation and community service and is working as a roofer out of state as he and his wife moved after his release.

The majority of the LEOs I know do not cut their bad associates any slack once they identify them as dirty.


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## coolrunnin (Aug 28, 2010)

plowjockey said:


> Being a Cop, must be an awesome job.
> 
> People are lining up, for the great pay, benefits and working conditions.
> 
> https://www.google.com/?gws_rd=ssl#q=police+officer+shortage+2015


Maybe they could hire if they weren't always laying them off.

https://www.google.com/search?ie=UT...msung&source=android-browser&q=police+layoffs


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## plowjockey (Aug 18, 2008)

coolrunnin said:


> Maybe they could hire if they weren't always laying them off.
> 
> https://www.google.com/search?ie=UT...msung&source=android-browser&q=police+layoffs



Good point.

At one time, being a Cop, meant at least job security. No more.

Maybe those Miami Cops, were smart, for stuffing their shirts with cash. 

They might need it.


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## Laura Zone 5 (Jan 13, 2010)

I have friends, who are LE, and they are good men.

All 3 of my kids have those LE officers numbers (their personal numbers) in their phones, and know they can call those men anytime day or night.
My youngest daughter has only met those men 1 time, but they would respond if she called.

They are good men.
They are human men. But they are good men, and great LEO's.

I'm so sick of the human race biting and devouring each other.

Some folks are amazing lumberjacks to get the Sequoia sized log out of their own eye to see that speck in anothers.........Simply amazing.


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## kuriakos (Oct 7, 2005)

I don't criticize police for sinning. I criticize the ones who break the law, and not breaking little specks of laws like going three miles over the speed limit, but big logs of law breaking like lying under oath, theft of evidence, drug dealing, sexual assault, etc. etc. etc.


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## FarmerKat (Jul 3, 2014)

wiscto said:


> Cops in Wisconsin make $20-$26 an hour starting. _Starting_. On top of that, they avoided Walker's pay-cut-in-disguise and still have better pension/insurance than most upper management level people do.
> 
> So I don't know about Miami. But any corrupt Wisconsin cop would have absolutely no excuse.


Let's remember that the pay varies highly by region. I have no idea what they make in the area referenced in the OP. Here the starting salary (regardless whether you are 21, fresh out of the academy or have 20 years of LE experience in another agency) is $13/hr. The county next to us just lost most of their force because they recently raised cost of health insurance to about 50% of the paycheck. It's not quite as cushy, get rich quick job as some make it sound. I am not saying it as an excuse for bad behavior but if you (collective you) ever hired anyone, you know that higher pay usually brings higher quality candidates.


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## FarmerKat (Jul 3, 2014)

wiscto said:


> YCops do get raises, ya know.


Not necessarily ... The last 5 years DH worked at his former agency, there were no raises. They also created a new rank that did not come with an increase in pay. That way people would still feel like they were moving along in their career but the agency did not have to pay more for it. The previously established ranks came with a pay raise but in most cases, it took people several years before making the next rank.


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## wiscto (Nov 24, 2014)

Mish said:


> Having the experience you've had, and admitting that you got cynical about the system...I would think you'd have a little more empathy for those who decide to keep on dealing with all that because somebody has to do it. I am really confused now, hearing your experience, that you don't think what they do is worth more than they get paid.
> 
> I won't argue that Milwaukee might be dangerous, just wondering if they have standing orders not to wear identifying clothing (such as a jacket with patches, etc) while off duty (which includes driving to and from work) for fear that they or their family they might get targeted specifically for being law enforcement while not on duty. That's the type of fun stuff going on here.


It's interesting for you to talk about how you think I should feel given my experience, but you've given no indication that you experienced it. Don't you think you should, you know, maybe experience it and then see how you feel? Again... I have not, at any point, said that I don't have empathy for cops. I said they make a decent living.


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## Mish (Oct 15, 2015)

wiscto said:


> It's interesting for you to talk about how you think I should feel given my experience, but you've given no indication that you experienced it. Don't you think you should, you know, maybe experience it and then see how you feel? Again... I have not, at any point, said that I don't have empathy for cops. I said they make a decent living.


It wasn't an insult. I just find it interesting that you say you've "been there" in a similar way for three years and then moved on, and think that the amount of money a cop makes is worth it.

I also am taking your word for it that 40k is a decent living where you are. Here, you're struggling, hard. I have relatives in Madison that make more than that and aren't super comfortable. But I'll take your word.

I'm not sure where you get the idea that I haven't experienced whatever "it" is. I'd think it would be obvious from my posts that I have, and that I think those who step into the line of fire for you deserve more than a barely living wage. On top of that, it's just downright stupid to think that you're going to have a quality, incorruptible police force paying the smallest salary possible. I'm glad you're happy with it, but you're not signing up and doing the job so it really doesn't matter that you think it's a great wage. But then we can complain about how crappy the cops are, so it's all good, I guess.


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## wiscto (Nov 24, 2014)

Mish said:


> It wasn't an insult. I just find it interesting that you say you've "been there" in a similar way for three years and then moved on, and think that the amount of money a cop makes is worth it.
> 
> I also am taking your word for it that 40k is a decent living where you are. Here, you're struggling, hard. I have relatives in Madison that make more than that and aren't super comfortable. But I'll take your word.
> 
> I'm not sure where you get the idea that I haven't experienced whatever "it" is. I'd think it would be obvious from my posts that I have, and that I think those who step into the line of fire for you deserve more than a barely living wage. On top of that, it's just downright stupid to think that you're going to have a quality, incorruptible police force paying the smallest salary possible. I'm glad you're happy with it, but you're not signing up and doing the job so it really doesn't matter that you think it's a great wage. But then we can complain about how crappy the cops are, so it's all good, I guess.


Yea? You have relatives in Madison? Did they all make 49k as a 20-22 year old straight out of college/tech/academy? Real sorry that your relatives aren't super comfortable, but the average American household has two working adults. Most cops are married. If you really don't think that a cop making the maximum salary isn't making a decent living in Wisconsin, that's fine, think what you want. They're above the median though, just so you're aware. I have family all over the state and I haven't met a poor cop. 
http://city.milwaukee.gov/jobs/PO
Okay. Look. Here ya go. Starting salary for Milwaukee cops... 49,786.36. A standard officer without rank maxes out at 66,606.28. That means that a lot of policemen's households are taking home more than 100k a year by the time their kids are in high-school, because this is American and in America both parents work most of the time. This conversation is absolutely nuts. It does matter that I think they make a decent wage...note that I said decent and you keep changing my wording to justify your adversarial nature...because I pay taxes. You aren't doing it either, so by your own stubborn logic, it doesn't really matter what you think. See ya.


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

AmericanStand said:


> Lol oh come on would you accept that type of *anecdotal sensationalism* from any one else as evidence.
> Being a cop is pretty safe , would you like to make it a LOT safer ?
> Take their CARS away. For some reason cops are some of the most unsafe drivers around and *over half their fatalities are from their own at fault driving*.
> Weird huh ? Why do you suppose that is ?


You want people to believe yours when you offer nothing to back it up.

Once again you've made up numbers that simply aren't true, unless you think 400 is "over half" of 1400

http://www.nleomf.org/facts/officer...=-1&sk=&cvid=41A2F31867D7415AB6696684C4A82991


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## Shrek (May 1, 2002)

In reading these various anti law enforcement threads , I wonder how many of those complaining about their local LEAs consider becoming a civilian component of their local agency?

Most every county has at least one free public relation geared civilian "police academies" that gives residents 21 years or older a 6 to 9 week , 3 hour one night a week program to better introduce citizens and LEOs to one another.

The civilians also get free handgun safety orientation for safe home defense and on completion of the civilian police academy with certification , they can chose to join the C.P.A. alumni association which is a non- reserve volunteer facet of the LEA that sponsored the C.P.A. orientation. 

As part of an LEA civilian volunteer association, the alumni assist in administrative clerking, sports event crowd control, on going C.P.A. programs, school functions and other public relations aspects.

The alumni volunteers just by being a no cost facet presence in the departments both help with manpower and budget shortages and keep a closer observation non-LEO perspective on their local LEA happenings than the general public.

So if your concerned with bettering relations between your LEA and community, consider participation in the civilian police academies offered and community watch programs.

Many agencies tie their C.P.A. and community watch programs together to maximize the communication between the agency and the community.


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## AmericanStand (Jul 29, 2014)

FarmerKat said:


> if you (collective you) ever hired anyone, you know that higher pay usually brings higher quality candidates.



I've found there are a lot of factors in the quality of canadates. 
The job itself seems to be a determining factor. 
The current fellow employees might be the biggest factor. 
Status is another factor. 
And another huge factor is the potential growth in the field.


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## Mish (Oct 15, 2015)

wiscto said:


> Yea? You have relatives in Madison? Did they all make 49k as a 20-22 year old straight out of college/tech/academy? Real sorry that your relatives aren't super comfortable, but the average American household has two working adults. Most cops are married. If you really don't think that a cop making the maximum salary isn't making a decent living in Wisconsin, that's fine, think what you want. They're above the median though, just so you're aware. I have family all over the state and I haven't met a poor cop.
> http://city.milwaukee.gov/jobs/PO
> Okay. Look. Here ya go. Starting salary for Milwaukee cops... 49,786.36. A standard officer without rank maxes out at 66,606.28. That means that a lot of policemen's households are taking home more than 100k a year by the time their kids are in high-school, because this is American and in America both parents work most of the time. This conversation is absolutely nuts. It does matter that I think they make a decent wage...note that I said decent and you keep changing my wording to justify your adversarial nature...because I pay taxes. You aren't doing it either, so by your own stubborn logic, it doesn't really matter what you think. See ya.


First question, yes, they live in Madison, second question, I'm not sure, that was a long time ago and I have no idea how to figure out what they made then in today's dollars. 

I'm not trying to twist your words, I'm just pointing out that the quality of a candidate you hire does have a lot to do with how much you are willing to pay them. If you (in general you, not you personally) are not willing to pay a higher salary for someone to do a dangerous but necessary job, you are not going to get the best candidates. You will end up with the type of people you don't want there, and there are plenty of police forces around the world proving that point to look at as examples of why it's worth it to pay more. We're just going around and around on that. It's not personal, it's a difference of opinion. Nowhere did I say your opinion doesn't matter - when I questioned you on things it was because I was wondering what your experiences behind the opinion were, not whether you deserved to have one. Simply because I'm nosy and I like to know where people I'm debating are coming from. Sorry if that comes across as adversarial.


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## Shine (Feb 19, 2011)

Bearfootfarm said:


> They all have to meet the same hiring standards.
> Maybe they show an attitude because you call them a lot?


Wow, you certainly assume much. What if they act towards me as if I am a partner in keeping the peace in our community? You didn't understand what I said or meant, again. You also do not understand what I have been tasked to do.


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## wiscto (Nov 24, 2014)

Mish said:


> First question, yes, they live in Madison, second question, I'm not sure, that was a long time ago and I have no idea how to figure out what they made then in today's dollars.
> 
> I'm not trying to twist your words, I'm just pointing out that the quality of a candidate you hire does have a lot to do with how much you are willing to pay them. If you (in general you, not you personally) are not willing to pay a higher salary for someone to do a dangerous but necessary job, you are not going to get the best candidates. You will end up with the type of people you don't want there, and there are plenty of police forces around the world proving that point to look at as examples of why it's worth it to pay more. We're just going around and around on that. It's not personal, it's a difference of opinion. Nowhere did I say your opinion doesn't matter - when I questioned you on things it was because I was wondering what your experiences behind the opinion were, not whether you deserved to have one. Simply because I'm nosy and I like to know where people I'm debating are coming from. Sorry if that comes across as adversarial.


Yea I got your point. There's no need to twist my words from "decent living" to "great salary" as you have done at least twice now.


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## AmericanStand (Jul 29, 2014)

wiscto said:


> Yea I got your point. There's no need to twist my words from "decent living" to "great salary" as you have done at least twice now.



But you keep talking about a marginal living or a decent one based on the cops giving up their morals. 
Do you really expect excellence from the low price bidder ?


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## Shine (Feb 19, 2011)

AmericanStand said:


> But you keep talking about a marginal living or a decent one based on the cops giving up their morals.
> Do you really expect excellence from the low price bidder ?



Our government does...


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

Shine said:


> Wow, you certainly assume much. What if they act towards me as if I am a partner in keeping the peace in our community? *You didn't understand what I said* or meant, again. You also do not understand what I have been tasked to do.


Maybe they don't understand you either since you seem to say that a lot
Maybe you don't understand them


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

Shine said:


> Our government does...


Bids for contracts have to meet well defined standards, and really have nothing to do with police salaries


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## Shine (Feb 19, 2011)

Bearfootfarm said:


> Bids for contracts have to meet well defined standards, and really have nothing to do with police salaries


meh...


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## FireMaker (Apr 3, 2014)

I made a good living. It was ( overall ) emotionally rewarding. When I first applied we had almost 700 applicants. Now, 26 yrs later if we have 100 (more like 70), they are doing good. People are not interested. A LE degree is not required. They want common sense but that's a hard commodity to locate. We had some bad ones. Some there was enough to prosecute. Others just enough to terminate. Both steps require different levels of evidence.


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## 1948CaseVAI (May 12, 2014)

plowjockey said:


> I believe that Cops are out there for our protection, but I also believe Cops are human, just like everybody else.
> 
> Doing a very dangerous job, for not a lot of money, trying to do a job, they know will not make any real difference - at all, it's not too hard to believe, that there would be a tendency, to get "sticky fingers", when wading knee-deep, in illicit cash.
> 
> Justifying their actions? No. Understanding their actions? sure.


As a retired Lieutenant from police department with 550 sworn officers (just to show that I did not work in Mayberry), I appreciate your simple, truthful, and accurate response.

I came from a family of means (a few thousand acres of dryland Kansas farm ground and 3,000 or so cattle on feed at any one time) but I wanted to be a cop because I considered it an honorable and important way to contribute to the community. I did not, however, stay in western Kansas because I wanted high activity and action, so I went to a city.

I still think it is an honorable career. All professions have bad actors and you weed them out as you find them.


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## Shine (Feb 19, 2011)

1948CaseVAI said:


> As a retired Lieutenant from police department with 550 sworn officers (just to show that I did not work in Mayberry), I appreciate your simple, truthful, and accurate response.


I applaud your service to what I always thought was an honorable position. I always knew that each and everyday was one of an uncertain outcome.

I would sincerely like to ask some simple questions. Is it the same now as it was when you were on duty, not retired or has something changed? Yes, I understand about good and bad actors but, with your insight, with all that is going on, the militarization of the police, the number of what appear to be needless deaths, the lack of the media reporting upon the honest cops: What is your impression? Is there room for the common man to now fear the cops rather than just maintaining a trust and a respect for that position?


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## Texaspredatorhu (Sep 15, 2015)

I think most cops today are cowards. You see the shootings unveil on tv and they are down the road waiting for the swat. Get your backside through the door and protect and serve.

On the pay issue, I made 743 on the first and fifteenth my first year in the Marines. 

All careers have turds, all of them including the military and police. At the end of the day I agree we are all human but generally speaking cops, military, and fire fighters are and will always be held to a higher standard. They should act accordingly.


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