# Insane Gas Prices



## Ernie (Jul 22, 2007)

On the way to Milwaukee this morning I filled up at $3.23 per gallon. Last week I was at $3.05 per gallon. Driving home this afternoon by the same station gasoline was $3.59 per gallon.

I almost think they're spinning a wheel in there to see what the price ought to be.


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## Wisconsin Ann (Feb 27, 2007)

It's only going to get worse for the short term. Although up 36cents in one 24hour period is actually illegal, as I recall. I think there's a statute in WI that says no more than 10cents in a day. 

SIGH. I'd best get out the bicycle. fortunately, I don't HAVE to go anywhere.


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## tab (Aug 20, 2002)

Last I checked, oil was a little over 98.00 per barrel. Up 10.00 a barrel in just 2 days.


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## Wisconsin Ann (Feb 27, 2007)

oil at over $100 a barrel. I really need to get Artificer working on that solar powered car....

eta: it traded at $100 during the day. Closed at $98.10


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## Tarheel (Jan 24, 2010)

Same here in Carolina, made the trip today to top off my off road diesel cans @ $3.12 a gallon. (No taxes for farm use)- Came back by the local Murphy and noticed gasoline had gone from $3.09 to $3.16 today. 

People it's coming, you better top off everything you can.


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## hintonlady (Apr 22, 2007)

Cool site where average folks update local gas prices from various retailers. Nice source if you have time to check prices before heading to the pump. Even has prices for small towns near me. Listings for ALL states.

Check it out!

http://gasbuddy.com/

edited to add: some in Canada as well.


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## AuntKitty (Oct 25, 2004)

What makes me mad is that alot of it is speculators taking advantage of the news reports that the market is "nervous" about the unrest in the MidEast. I'm sure there is some of that, but there is also speculation going on.


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## MichaelK! (Oct 22, 2010)

Posted this update before I saw your post Ernie. I've cut and pasted it into your discussion

Updating the price increase I'm seeing this week.

Diesel
2008 price 2011 price

1/02/08 3.47$/gallon 1/06/11 3.59$/gallon
2/21/08 3.75$/gallon 2/06/11 3.73$/gallon
4/08/08 4.08$/gallon 2/11/11 3.81$/gallon
5/12/08 4.68$/gallon 2/23/11 4.01$/gallon
6/25/08 4.93$/gallon
8/??/08 5.08$/gallon

Still going up

Here's the price comparison for 89 plus gasoline, at the same station

1/23/08 3.06$/gallon 1/02/11 3.39$/gallon
2/21/08 3.11$/gallon 2/23/11 3.68$/gallon
3/06/08 3.49$/gallon
4/01/08 3.70$/gallon
5/01/08 3.79$/gallon
6/01/08 4.39$/gallon
7/03/08 4.59$/gallon

This is not looking good. Diesel is already 4$/gallon and it's still February! Does that mean 6$ fuel this summer? Will we soon be reminiscing about back when gas was only 5$ a gallon? Is this what it will take to really make the SHTF?


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## Becka (Mar 15, 2008)

Maybe I'm just dense, but I don't get it. Within a few hours, our gas prices jumped $.14 to $3.39 a gallon, but the gas station didn't even get "new" gas until tonight. Why the huge increase before the gas company even paid for the next load? I thought Libya only exported a very small percentage of oil to the US, not enough for that big of an increase. Me thinks somebody is being greedy.


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## Ernie (Jul 22, 2007)

My understanding is that the individual stations don't set the prices. They are told by their suppliers/franchisers what to set the price to. That's why you can drive down a 100 mile stretch of road and see gas mostly the same price. There's no real competition. It's a cartel.


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## FreightTrain (Nov 5, 2005)

come on warmer weather so i can get the motorcycles back out on the road.. its killing me to drive the truck to work!


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## hsmom2four (Oct 13, 2008)

I saw the jump in oil prices yesterday and my suburban was on empty so I ran out and filled up for 3.11/gal which was up from 3.03 just a couple of days before. Today the same station was 3.19. What really ticks me off is that it doesn't have to be this way. The Saudi's have said that they will ramp up production to counter act Libya. Ugh! this is all from wall street driving up the price just because they have an excuse!


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## Tarheel (Jan 24, 2010)

Same station I posted at $3.16 this afternoon is now $3.29.:smack


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## fordy (Sep 13, 2003)

Becka said:


> Maybe I'm just dense, but I don't get it. Within a few hours, our gas prices jumped $.14 to $3.39 a gallon, but the gas station didn't even get "new" gas until tonight. Why the huge increase before the gas company even paid for the next load? I thought Libya only exported a very small percentage of oil to the US, not enough for that big of an increase. Me thinks somebody is being greedy.




...................The simple reason for such fast increases in price is that they can sell their existing inventory at much higher prices , even before the next load arrives that will have a higher cost . This also works in reverse , when wholesale fuel prices start droping too the retail seller , they are usually , very slow too drop their prices at the pump . , fordy


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## texican (Oct 4, 2003)

Our closest fuel station is actually very honest. Mrs. Bertha will keep her prices the same, until she gets a new load of fuel. So, when prices are rising, folks swarm Mrs. Bertha's store, and when prices fall, she loses a lot of business, as her fuel prices remain the same, sometimes for weeks, till her loyalist customers drain her tanks.


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## farmerDale (Jan 8, 2011)

You guys down there are CHEAP! Quit yer complaining! Never went to town last few days, but last week our gas was 4.24. And we produce it and sell it to you folks, yet it is cheaper for you. What am I not getting?


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## Tarheel (Jan 24, 2010)

farmerDale said:


> You guys down there are CHEAP! Quit yer complaining! Never went to town last few days, but last week our gas was 4.24. And we produce it and sell it to you folks, yet it is cheaper for you. What am I not getting?


Warmer weather ! :grin:


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## calliemoonbeam (Aug 7, 2007)

I saw an article online earlier that said gas will probably "get" to $4, but not $5, unless something happens to Saudi Arabia. But it looks like it's already close to $4 for some of you, so I'm not sure I believe that, lol. 

It's $2.99 here, which is 30 cents higher than a couple of weeks ago. It sure doesn't seem like it's slowing anyone down around here, although most of the people around here have their heads in the sand anyway. :shrug:


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## Ernie (Jul 22, 2007)

farmerDale said:


> You guys down there are CHEAP! Quit yer complaining! Never went to town last few days, but last week our gas was 4.24. And we produce it and sell it to you folks, yet it is cheaper for you. What am I not getting?


The metric system?


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## bourbonred (Feb 27, 2008)

Becka said:


> Maybe I'm just dense, but I don't get it. Within a few hours, our gas prices jumped $.14 to $3.39 a gallon, but the gas station didn't even get "new" gas until tonight. Why the huge increase before the gas company even paid for the next load? I thought Libya only exported a very small percentage of oil to the US, not enough for that big of an increase. Me thinks somebody is being greedy.


America only imports 2-3 % from Libya, but Europe imports 30% or more from them. Supply and Demand, (and fear that Qaddafi will blow the fields up.)


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## megafatcat (Jun 30, 2009)

Many gas stations make little to nothing from gas sales. 2-3 cents. They are also counting on the money from selling the gas in the ground to buy the next shipment, at the higher price. The local guy is ripping you off on the price of chips, sodas and cigarettes, not gas.


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## farmerDale (Jan 8, 2011)

Tarheel said:


> Warmer weather ! :grin:


Leave me alone. I quite like being -20 while all you luckys get 70.


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## farmerDale (Jan 8, 2011)

Ernie said:


> The metric system?


Yeah our beloved metric system. 

3.79 litres per gallon and 1.119 a litre, before this increase. :stars:


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## springvalley (Jun 23, 2009)

I`m filling up my farm tank for diesel thursday, delivered to the farm 3.05, it is 3.50 in town. I have no idea where it will stop, makes me nervous thats for sure. > Marc


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## unregistered65598 (Oct 4, 2010)

MichaelK! said:


> Posted this update before I saw your post Ernie. I've cut and pasted it into your discussion
> 
> Updating the price increase I'm seeing this week.
> 
> ...


From what you posted Diesel is still cheaper now then it was in 08. Glad we have a diesel truck.


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## farmerDale (Jan 8, 2011)

farmerDale said:


> You guys down there are CHEAP! Quit yer complaining! Never went to town last few days, but last week our gas was 4.24. And we produce it and sell it to you folks, yet it is cheaper for you. What am I not getting?


For whomever this post offended, I meant no offense at all. I should have used an eye-roll or two I guess. I am sorry for any offense made.


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## Oldcountryboy (Feb 23, 2008)

HEADS UP! $4 TO $5 BY MEMORIAL DAY THIS YEAR

On world news this evening Gadafi is threatening to blow up all the oil wells in Libya. If he does this may cause the price of crude oil to rise up to as much as $150 a barrel in the future and at the pump we could be seeing $4 to $5 a gallon by this coming Memorial Day weekend. In turn this will cause our regained economy to spiral back downward and we could be seeing layoffs, budget crunches, and the price of food to soar even higher.


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## Guest (Feb 24, 2011)

What I don't get is that the last time the price of gas went over $3 a gallon the price of a barrel of oil was $140 a gallon. Based on this ratio the current $100 a barrel should result in gas a bit over $2. I think we are getting screwed.


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## stanb999 (Jan 30, 2005)

farmerDale said:


> You guys down there are CHEAP! Quit yer complaining! Never went to town last few days, but last week our gas was 4.24. And we produce it and sell it to you folks, yet it is cheaper for you. What am I not getting?


It is a self imposed cost. Taxes.


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## rj_in_MA (Apr 27, 2004)

Becka said:


> I thought Libya only exported a very small percentage of oil to the US, not enough for that big of an increase. Me thinks somebody is being greedy.


It seems some of it may be speculation about the knock-on effect of the turmoil in Lybia http://www.nytimes.com/2011/02/24/business/energy-environment/24oil.html?_r=1&ref=africa

"Should the turmoil in Libya last for more than a few weeks, oil experts predict that European refiners will be forced to buy sweet crude from Algeria and Nigeria, two principal sources of sweet crude for the United States. That would probably push up American gasoline prices, which have already risen 6 cents a gallon over the last week to an average of $3.19 for regular grade."


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## tab (Aug 20, 2002)

There is also speculation of an uprising in Saudia Arabia.


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## FreightTrain (Nov 5, 2005)

farmerDale said:


> You guys down there are CHEAP! Quit yer complaining! Never went to town last few days, but last week our gas was 4.24. And we produce it and sell it to you folks, yet it is cheaper for you. What am I not getting?


u have higher TAX's on it


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## kirkmcquest (Oct 21, 2010)

Nimrod said:


> What I don't get is that the last time the price of gas went over $3 a gallon the price of a barrel of oil was $140 a gallon. Based on this ratio the current $100 a barrel should result in gas a bit over $2. I think we are getting screwed.


This.


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## 7thswan (Nov 18, 2008)

Old Country Boy said:


> HEADS UP! $4 TO $5 BY MEMORIAL DAY THIS YEAR
> 
> On world news this evening Gaddafi is threatening to blow up all the oil wells in Libya. If he does this may cause the price of crude oil to rise up to as much as $150 a barrel in the future and at the pump we could be seeing $4 to $5 a gallon by this coming Memorial Day weekend. In turn this will cause our regained economy to spiral back downward and we could be seeing layoffs, budget crunches, and the price of food to soar even higher.


Better send Al Gore over there, he can talk him out of putting all that CO2 in the Atmosphere.


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## farmerDale (Jan 8, 2011)

FreightTrain said:


> u have higher TAX's on it


Yeah I know. It still sucks. 

:awh:


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## NickieL (Jun 15, 2007)

farmerDale said:


> Yeah I know. It still sucks.
> 
> :awh:


Ah, but you get FREE healthcare!


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## MichaelK! (Oct 22, 2010)

Merks said:


> From what you posted Diesel is still cheaper now then it was in 08. Glad we have a diesel truck.


No, I think you are interpreting the data incorrectly. Compare the 2/21/08 price with the 2/23/11 price. That's 3.75$ vs. 4.01 or approximately 26 cents higher than 2008.

If you care to extrapolate, if the price reached 5.08 in August of 2008, it's likely to reach 5.40$ this August. That's assuming two things. First, there isn't more unrest in the Middle east that drives prices even higher; and secondly, that high prices don't crush the economy into the dust even lower than they did in 2008.


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## bourbonred (Feb 27, 2008)

Got 610 gallons of diesel fillled in farm tank & tractor fuel tanks for $2.98/gallon on the day it went up. (Thank You Lord!)


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## GoldenCityMuse (Apr 15, 2009)

megafatcat said:


> Many gas stations make little to nothing from gas sales. 2-3 cents. They are also counting on the money from selling the gas in the ground to buy the next shipment, at the higher price. The local guy is ripping you off on the price of chips, sodas and cigarettes, not gas.


This is very true.
Plus, they are paying the CC fees to their banks as well.

Most don't offer a sufficient cash discount though, so I pay w/ CC and get 1% back.

They do sell at the price for the replacement gas, not what they paid for it. That is generally how I price my items I have for sale on Amazon.


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## whodunit (Mar 29, 2004)

$2.96 where I work. $3.13 or better near where I live. I used to think it was because where I work is near a reservation (no federal tax), but the $2.96 is not a tribal station. The tribal station is two cents higher, so I'm confused.


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## Wisconsin Ann (Feb 27, 2007)

Interestingly, our local station reduced..yes REDUCED price by 10cents yesterday. Talk about confused! It's at $3.25 now. well...that's where it was last night.


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## julieq (Oct 12, 2008)

Nimrod said:


> What I don't get is that the last time the price of gas went over $3 a gallon the price of a barrel of oil was $140 a gallon. Based on this ratio the current $100 a barrel should result in gas a bit over $2. I think we are getting screwed.


Ya think?!


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## brreitsma (Jan 14, 2003)

I don't like the prices in that they hurt but in a way they are needed. You have so many people driving vehicles that are so much larger then is necessary to meet their needs. I don't feel one bit bad for them. We need temporary prices quite a bit higher then $5 to see a correction in this trend. When people down size demand will drop and prices will once again become reasonable.


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## NickieL (Jun 15, 2007)

Wisconsin Ann said:


> Interestingly, our local station reduced..yes REDUCED price by 10cents yesterday. Talk about confused! It's at $3.25 now. well...that's where it was last night.


yeah, they reduced right before the 40 cent jump here too, the day before it w3ent from 3.09 to 2.96....

the next day? 3.38...


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## Guest (Feb 25, 2011)

Picked up another fuel drum from the local distributor today. He fills all the local area BP tanks. Said the price went up nineteen cents a gallon yesterday. I'll be filling that drum this weekend hopefully before the price increase shows up at my usual station.

Most of us cannot realistically store enough fuel to shelter us from these sorts of price spikes. A few days to a couple of weeks perhaps, but most of us just can't store enough to buffer price increases that last months.

My concern is becoming more of one about hiccups in the actual supply of fuel as in "out of gas" signs at the local stations. Things are starting to get a bit squirrelly all over lately. The squirrellier things become the more concerned I become about cascade failures.

My fuel storage is in regular rotation so it's not going to just sit there. If things calm down then I'm not out anything more than the cost of the drum. If we begin to see some (hopefully) short-term supply problems we have enough fuel to get by on.


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## mnn2501 (Apr 2, 2008)

So, Oil topped $100 a barrel and gas prices immediatly jumped 20 cents or more, even though that oil won't reach the pumps for 6 months or more.

So yesterday oil dropped below $100 a barrel -- did the gas prices immediatly drop? Heck no! in fact they went up another dime yesterday.


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## Wisconsin Ann (Feb 27, 2007)

brreitsma said:


> I don't like the prices in that they hurt but in a way they are needed. You have so many people driving vehicles that are so much larger then is necessary to meet their needs. I don't feel one bit bad for them. We need temporary prices quite a bit higher then $5 to see a correction in this trend. When people down size demand will drop and prices will once again become reasonable.


The problem with THAT little scenario is that those of us who drive trucks for reasons of hauling trailers, or getting wood, etc., get hurt too. So do the parents who are already cash strapped with their 5 kids...and that gas hog that's needed for the 5 kids and 2 parents. 

You also forget that ALL of the food, except what you grown in your garden, as well as most items from stores, is hauled using trucks. Thousands of miles at 5miles to the gallon. The prices in the stores go up for a reason when fuel goes up. The last time, truckers and trucking lines ate as much of the bill as they could. But eventually they were going in the red. 

The tractors that harvest those foods run on fuel of some sort (usually diesel). Farmers pay more for grain for their cattle and dairy herds, more for diesel to run the tractors to farm the land. 

You want to see your grocery bill go up 50%? Just raise fuel prices to $5 or $6 a gallon.


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## brreitsma (Jan 14, 2003)

Well, WisconsinAnn, I said TEMPORARY! Once people who could adjusted their vehicles demand would drop significantly and would be more stable long term. Many people leave boats or other items at vacation properties all season. They haul things for the beginning and end of season only and drive a truck year round for the twice a year they need one. Many other people only need one 5 - 6 times a year but drive year round for those times. It would be far cheaper to rent a truck a hand full of times or even hire a person with a truck then buy the extra gas year round. These are the changes that 5+ dollars would produce. It wouldn't take long to produce these changes. Afterward you would see prices of fuel plummet.


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## Charly (Feb 20, 2010)

I say, let folks drive what they want and let's get drilling here at home!


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## TexasAggie (Apr 24, 2010)

Ernie said:


> On the way to Milwaukee this morning I filled up at $3.23 per gallon. Last week I was at $3.05 per gallon. Driving home this afternoon by the same station gasoline was $3.59 per gallon.
> 
> I almost think they're spinning a wheel in there to see what the price ought to be.


Last Friday (2/18), gasoline at the Ft Sam houston PX was 2/979/gal, and today, the price is 3.159/gal.


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## Trisha in WA (Sep 28, 2005)

3.44 in town today


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## Timberline (Feb 7, 2006)

Gas in town was $3.29 today. We got our diesel tank filled, dyed diesel, for $3.09 delivered. 275 gallons, ouch! I was glad to get it filled now, though.


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## cast iron (Oct 4, 2004)

Charly said:


> I say, let folks drive what they want and let's get drilling here at home!


I don't know, that sounds like too much common sense to me. Probably won't fly.


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## marinemomtatt (Oct 8, 2006)

We just filled up our SUV at $3.49 a gal!!!! 
The 2005 SUV is our family vehicle, our weekly feed hauler, our wood puller. Next to my 96 Firebird which is quite economical (basically a two seater) our SUV gets pretty good mpg's, especially if I'm the one driving it. Our heavy hauler, a 1 ton Chev. truck is parked (7mpg) my 70 Firebird is parked (15-19 mpg) and they will stay that way until gas prices get better IF they ever do.


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## MO_cows (Aug 14, 2010)

Earlier this week, I filled up my car for $2.99/gal. It snowed and drifted last night, had to drive another vehicle with 4WD to get out this morning. Had to fill it up, $3.22/gal. Up 23 cents in less than a week.


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## unregistered65598 (Oct 4, 2010)

MichaelK! said:


> No, I think you are interpreting the data incorrectly. Compare the 2/21/08 price with the 2/23/11 price. That's 3.75$ vs. 4.01 or approximately 26 cents higher than 2008.
> 
> If you care to extrapolate, if the price reached 5.08 in August of 2008, it's likely to reach 5.40$ this August. That's assuming two things. First, there isn't more unrest in the Middle east that drives prices even higher; and secondly, that high prices don't crush the economy into the dust even lower than they did in 2008.


Yep I did in deed interpret it wrong, Sorry


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## texican (Oct 4, 2003)

Charly said:


> I say, let folks drive what they want and let's get drilling here at home!


We could drill all we want, and be self sufficient, and even export surplus oil... but the price would be exactly the same as the world market.

The oil (condensate) that comes off the gas well on my back 40, brings within 10% of the price of the world market, whenever it enters the pipeline. Lots of folks mistakenly believe if we were self sufficient in oil, the price would be lower. Unfortunately wrong.

We are independent and will be for a hundred or so years, in natural gas... when folks demand ng vehicles and ng filling stations, Then, you'll see stable prices over the long haul, independent of world prices.


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## Explorer (Dec 2, 2003)

texican said:


> We could drill all we want, and be self sufficient, and even export surplus oil... *but the price would be exactly the same as the world market.*


Being we are now in a world economy now that is true of most consumables, including food.


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## Laura Zone 5 (Jan 13, 2010)

**IF** we were drilling in Alaska, we would be the WORLD'S 8th largest supplier of oil.
Is the president still not allowing oil operations in the Gulf?

Why do we *willingly *walk up to the Guillotine, kneel down, and lay our heads on the chopping block????
Really?? Because we could be 'self sustaining' in this stupid oil issue, if we would JUST USE the resources that are on OUR LAND!!!!

BAAAAAAAA why is that so dang hard?????


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## Laura Zone 5 (Jan 13, 2010)

Gas is 3.45 here today.


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## NickieL (Jun 15, 2007)

It's up to 3.48 this morning...


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## bigfoot2you (Oct 3, 2007)

Wisconsin Ann said:


> The problem with THAT little scenario is that those of us who drive trucks for reasons of hauling trailers, or getting wood, etc., get hurt too. So do the parents who are already cash strapped with their 5 kids...and that gas hog that's needed for the 5 kids and 2 parents.
> 
> You also forget that ALL of the food, except what you grown in your garden, as well as most items from stores, is hauled using trucks. Thousands of miles at 5miles to the gallon. The prices in the stores go up for a reason when fuel goes up. The last time, truckers and trucking lines ate as much of the bill as they could. But eventually they were going in the red.
> 
> ...


GREAT POST!! :rock:


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## Laura Zone 5 (Jan 13, 2010)

Wisconsin Ann said:


> The problem with THAT little scenario is that those of us who drive trucks for reasons of hauling trailers, or getting wood, etc., get hurt too. So do the parents who are already cash strapped with their 5 kids...and that gas hog that's needed for the 5 kids and 2 parents.
> 
> You also forget that ALL of the food, except what you grown in your garden, as well as most items from stores, is hauled using trucks. Thousands of miles at 5miles to the gallon. The prices in the stores go up for a reason when fuel goes up. The last time, truckers and trucking lines ate as much of the bill as they could. But eventually they were going in the red.
> 
> ...


Totally right!!

My farmers around me went to "crop dusting". Said the fuel was cheaper to use a crop duster instead of a machine on the ground.
They have been doing that since the summer that gas was over 4.00 a gallon.


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## MO_cows (Aug 14, 2010)

brreitsma said:


> Well, WisconsinAnn, I said TEMPORARY! Once people who could adjusted their vehicles demand would drop significantly and would be more stable long term. Many people leave boats or other items at vacation properties all season. They haul things for the beginning and end of season only and drive a truck year round for the twice a year they need one. Many other people only need one 5 - 6 times a year but drive year round for those times. It would be far cheaper to rent a truck a hand full of times or even hire a person with a truck then buy the extra gas year round. These are the changes that 5+ dollars would produce. It wouldn't take long to produce these changes. Afterward you would see prices of fuel plummet.


Sounds good in theory but I think you are wrong. Your theory assumes the U.S. is the ONLY consumer but it is a worldwide market. In India and particularly China, more and more people are joining the ranks of car owners and worldwide demand is increasing. So if 5 million Americans traded in their SUV for an economy car, but 5 million Chinese acquire a car, the world demand has still risen. You are not wrong in that many people have way more car than what they really need, but raising the price of gas to manipulate them into getting a more efficient car has wide ranging side effects that negatively impact all of us. Higher prices for EVERYTHING. How fair is that??


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## Andy Nonymous (Aug 20, 2005)

Insane fuel prices? I don't think so, at least not yet. 

While speculation has taken the price of a barrel to about 100 on what has and what may happen in the mid-east, it wouldn't take much to tighten sphincters even more, say rather than just deposing despots, social collapse results as varying factions previously strongarmed into submission by Iron Fists, now see their chance at domination, placing their societies into lengthy civil wars. 

Also consider that most of the nations currently in uprising are predominantly Muslim nations, and should a fundamentalist leadership be democratically elected, they may not want to sell their resources to the supporter of their former tyrant (the US), or without a substantial premium.

The problem with developing oil (and nat gas) resources is that practically regardless of where those resources are, there is environmental degradation in the process. Some ecosystems, such as in Alaska, are very fragile, take an extraordinarily long time to recover from disruption and contamination if not too severe, and tapping them may have other environmental and economic costs beyond what may be gained, short term, in fuel.

Sure, to most people laying claim to whatever resources we need, wherever they are, whenever we need them, is "all good", as long as it doesn't happen in *your* yard, leave *you* with a contaminated well that poisons garden plants (and animals and humans), plummets *your* property value, or ruins *your* sustenance and livelihood for generations to come. Cheap gas (and diesel) in many cases just isn't worth it. Better to let foreign nations suffer the ecological ramifications of drilling and fracking and refining, while letting them run out of fuel first; to let them take mere dollars in exchange to fund their extravagance and armies - all the better to hit the US with when their people wake up to how they've been abused for the sake of their gov profit, than to do all that drilling here.

Human beings have inhabited this small orb for a lot longer without the use of copious fossil fuels than they have with them, and at the rate we are using them, it won't be too much longer (in a long historical perspective), before we (as a species) don't have ready access to them anymore. Either we wake up to the insanity of "unlimited cheap oil" and start learning to kick the habit now, or withdrawal will be even more painful down the road.


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## marinemomtatt (Oct 8, 2006)

Well put Andy Nonymous.


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## texican (Oct 4, 2003)

Andy Nonymous said:


> Human beings have inhabited this small orb for a lot longer without the use of copious fossil fuels than they have with them, and at the rate we are using them, it won't be too much longer (in a long historical perspective), before we (as a species) don't have ready access to them anymore. Either we wake up to the insanity of "unlimited cheap oil" and start learning to kick the habit now, or withdrawal will be even more painful down the road.


True...
But the human population is about 5 or so billion more than when the Age of Oil began... Those ~5B owe their existence to oil. What do you do with those 5B when we kick the habit? When every facet of life is intricately entwined with oil, when it's gone, most of the benefits of Oil will disappear, the support structure will disappear, and so will most all of the human population... we'll quickly get back to those pre-industrial population levels. Some will anyhow... 

The prices hurt... I can live with hurting... What'll be deadly is no gas/diesel at any price.

We're headed for interesting times...


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## Tracy Rimmer (May 9, 2002)

Read the book "The Value of Nothing" by Raj Patel. It will explain exactly why the gas price at the pump goes up quicker than "old" supply, bought at a cheaper rate, is used.

It's not about the true VALUE, it's about what people are willing to pay. Face it, they could put gasoline up to $5 a gallon tomorrow, and people would still pay it. They don't want to, or can't, give up their gasoline-fuelled transportation, so the price is set not by what the fuel is WORTH, but what the market will bear.

Every time there is any type of conflict in an oil-producing area of the world, people EXPECT fuel prices to rise.... so they do. The market will bear more, so the fuel prices go up.


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## Andy Nonymous (Aug 20, 2005)

Tracy: YES! 

Texican, we somewhat agree. Abundant oil (and natgas and coal) have made life immensely easier and work more productive, to say nothing of what has been wrought in the line of medical miracles keeping folks alive (and some productive) who only a couple generations ago would have been fertilizing daisies shortly after the onset of symptoms. But I believe that what will directly do-in far more people than a lack of fuels and their byproducts, is a lack of willingness to work hard and work together. Amazing things were done with human power and ingenuity (think pyramids). 

True, without oil, the vast masses of society can't go on as we have been, and the suffering through the adjustment will be enormous throughout the world, only more so where people have been long accustomed to a "soft" life. Even the Amish rely on oil: to keep their lanterns lit, to fuel trucks for bulk deliveries of flour and sugar, for buses and trains with which they travel long distances to marry or visit, for their stationary motors to run their shops, to pump water for house and critters, to run their Maytags, etc. I don't think anyone currently alive will get off unscathed (unless they die before the other shoe drops). 

I agree, the rising prices hurt. I can do no more than prepare to the best of my abilities and resources to face a day when I can't afford oil products, even if they are still available. The likelihood of that happening for most of us is far greater than that of "no gas/diesel at any price" ever again, though shortages and rationing may well happen as well along the way.

There are still a lot of strange things afield that could significantly change courses and outcomes, like yellowstone blowing and killing us all with volcanic ash winter for years, or some insane button pusher sending up a Big One... 

I have today, for which I'm thankful; perhaps tomorrow as well. It ain't over until it's over, and it ain't over yet.


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## SecureLand (Feb 24, 2011)

I paid $3.57 (that's low I found) here in Antelope Valley, CA yesterday. I have an old custom (2002) DodgeVanRam, once a week I go out shopping--I like the feel of driving it still--but, I sometimes wish I had my old "Flinstones Mobile" my niece called it, Toyota 87 Corolla. Yup! : )


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## tab (Aug 20, 2002)

Welcome, SL. 
Used to have a Corolla we called the pumpkin becaue it was orange.


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## Txsteader (Aug 22, 2005)

You wanna see insane? The UK is expected to raise their prices to over $9/gallon next week, which will be 'the new norm'. 
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/motoring...a-gallon-at-the-pump-due-to-Libya-crisis.html


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## Nevada (Sep 9, 2004)

MichaelK! said:


> This is not looking good. Diesel is already 4$/gallon and it's still February! Does that mean 6$ fuel this summer?


I don't see how that follows. The high oil prices are the result of unrest in the oil producing regions, which is making oil speculators crazy. I don't see any reason to believe that this will continue after things calm down in the region, which I expect to see happen soon -- one way or another.


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## Tarheel (Jan 24, 2010)

Tracy Rimmer said:


> Read the book "The Value of Nothing" by Raj Patel. It will explain exactly why the gas price at the pump goes up quicker than "old" supply, bought at a cheaper rate, is used.
> 
> It's not about the true VALUE, it's about what people are willing to pay. Face it, they could put gasoline up to $5 a gallon tomorrow, and people would still pay it. They don't want to, or can't, give up their gasoline-fuelled transportation, so the price is set not by what the fuel is WORTH, but what the market will bear.
> 
> Every EXPECT fuel prices to rise.... so they do. The market will bear more, so the fuel prices go up.


Tracy you are so correct. My work carries me with in a 25 mile radius of home, and today the county that I live in (which by the way is one of the poorer counties in the state) had the highest price of $3.45. The next county to the east of us (which is one of the wealthiest) was $3.29. Then the next county to the north (which is in the middle as far as income) was $2.99.

Now in my county they know that most people cannot justify driving 25 miles to buy gas, so they stick it to them. On top of that, the Attorney General cannot get them for price gouging unless the Governor declares a state of emergency.:shrug:

Now you can't tell me for one minute that there is that much difference in the price of gasoline at each of these stations with only a 25 mile radius of each other.

So yes you are correct, it is what ever the market can bear, but as granny use to say "What goes around, comes around"


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## MichaelK! (Oct 22, 2010)

Nevada said:


> I don't see how that follows. The high oil prices are the result of unrest in the oil producing regions, which is making oil speculators crazy. I don't see any reason to believe that this will continue after things calm down in the region, which I expect to see happen soon -- one way or another.


Maybe "not seeing how that follows" is what is people's biggest problem is! What made speculators "crazy" back in 2008? What will make them more crazy in 2012? The truth is I've accurately predicted fuel prices a year in advance since 2005! I make these predictions based on careful study of purchase records made week after week, month after month, year after year. If you don't think prices will skyrocket this summer, then just lean back, relax, and have a beer. You'll be just fine, or so you think! 

Sticking to the data, and assuming the the slope of the curve stays the same, diesel might predictably reach 5.40$. You can argue all you want. I'll be proven right or wrong in the next 4-5 months.


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## Sonshine (Jul 27, 2007)

Tarheel said:


> Same station I posted at $3.16 this afternoon is now $3.29.:smack


That's what ours is at right now, $3.29.


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## PhilJohnson (Dec 24, 2006)

Gas prices are far from insane. Insane would be 6-7 bucks a gallon or more with shortages. I figured it out for every dollar gas goes up my weekly commuting cost goes up by 10 bucks. I drive an ancient gas guzzler of a truck. My friend was considering buying a house in the country but then decided that now there is no way he could afford the commute now that gas is up by 30 cents a gallon which works out to a couple extra bucks a week for the mileage he would be driving. Keep in mind this guy is single and makes 18 bucks an hour. 

I am watching the situation but unless there is some real wild unrest in Saudi Arabia I am not going to worry too much. I would be much more concerned if there was a shortfall between the oil supply and what is consumed. So far there is no shortfall. 

Also the USGS found out last year that Alaska's oil reserves were overstated by 90 percent. People in the US might as well suck it up, we will never be oil independent no matter how much we drill. Might be able to be energy independent but that will take using all our fossil fuels (coal, NG) combined plus renewable sources.


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## Explorer (Dec 2, 2003)

If gas was $10.00 a gal we would be a lot closer to being energy independent.


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## stanb999 (Jan 30, 2005)

brreitsma said:


> I don't like the prices in that they hurt but in a way they are needed. You have so many people driving vehicles that are so much larger then is necessary to meet their needs. I don't feel one bit bad for them. We need temporary prices quite a bit higher then $5 to see a correction in this trend. When people down size demand will drop and prices will once again become reasonable.


Not to squish your theory.... The reason liquid fuels will continue to rise for the foreseeable future is simple. It has nothing to do with Americans or other "western" nations.  

See you live in the outskirts of Beijing, Mumbai, or even Jakarta . You work in a factory producing "plastic pumpkins" sold to rich westerners. Your salary just went from 1 dollar a day to 2 dollars. Woo Hoo. 

You save for three months and get your lovely wife a new appliance. Like this.










Now she doesn't need to use that dung and sticks to heat your pot of rice. she has been using for years with no chimney in the house. The air in the house has a new freshness. Ya, Think? This doesn't even take into account things like mopeds and small motors for boats and the like.


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## Pouncer (Oct 28, 2006)

Diesel was $3.99 last night, and regular gas was $3.71. Both are up about 20 cents in the past week. The state is not collecting the eight cents a gallon highway tax either. 

We're hosed up here because the state oil tax structure is tied to Texas crude in part. Plus we have a small population and only one refinery to make all our gas, diesel, and jet fuel. 

Sad thing is, pretty soon the Trans Alaska Pipeline will have to shut down, it's running at only one third capacity. In about six years or so, the declining amount will force them to shut it down. Right now, it's about 600,000 barrels a day, down from over 2 million. 

Much of it goes to the west coast too. The Agrium plant and the LNG plant on the Kenai both closed. Those gas wells are being shut in and because they are older fields, they may not be able to restart the flow this coming winter when natural gas demands spike.

Can you imagine? Living in a state with such huge resources-and Anchorage and surrounding areas have NO HEAT? It's a very real possibility.


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## mekasmom (Jan 19, 2010)

Nimrod said:


> What I don't get is that the last time the price of gas went over $3 a gallon the price of a barrel of oil was $140 a gallon. Based on this ratio the current $100 a barrel should result in gas a bit over $2. I think we are getting screwed.


They are gouging.


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## bluemoonluck (Oct 28, 2008)

brreitsma said:


> I don't like the prices in that they hurt but in a way they are needed. You have so many people driving vehicles that are so much larger then is necessary to meet their needs. I don't feel one bit bad for them. We need temporary prices quite a bit higher then $5 to see a correction in this trend. When people down size demand will drop and prices will once again become reasonable.


Between my SO and I we have 5 kids. My minivan holds 7 people packed in like sardines, so we barely fit into it. I CAN'T downsize my vehicle! Of course SO drives a small vehicle that gets good gas mileage, but we have to have the bigger vehicle.

So what if we could afford to have 3 vehicles between us - 2 smaller with good gas mileage and 1 larger for when everyone is in the car? We can't afford the extra insurance, for starters, and then what do I do when his ex calls me at work and needs me to pick up the kids and I'm driving my small car? Don't have time to drive home, swap cars, and still get the kids before the schools close up shop for the day.

I wouldn't drive a Hummer or something as a status symbol, but I don't see a way around me needing a larger vehicle that gets crappy gas mileage. 

Bottom line is that I get hurt just as much as the status-symbol Hummer driver when gas prices go up, even though I believe it is necessary for me to drive the larger vehicle.


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## texican (Oct 4, 2003)

MichaelK! said:


> What made speculators "crazy" back in 2008? What will make them more crazy in 2012?


All the excess fiat money that flooded the commodities market after the real estate bubble burst, would be the primary cause. Fundamentals didn't support it...



PhilJohnson said:


> Gas prices are far from insane. Insane would be 6-7 bucks a gallon or more with shortages. I figured it out for every dollar gas goes up my weekly commuting cost goes up by 10 bucks. I drive an ancient gas guzzler of a truck. My friend was considering buying a house in the country but then decided that now there is no way he could afford the commute now that gas is up by 30 cents a gallon which works out to a couple extra bucks a week for the mileage he would be driving. Keep in mind this guy is single and makes 18 bucks an hour.
> 
> I am watching the situation but unless there is some real wild unrest in Saudi Arabia I am not going to worry too much. I would be much more concerned if there was a shortfall between the oil supply and what is consumed. So far there is no shortfall.
> 
> Also the USGS found out last year that Alaska's oil reserves were overstated by 90 percent. People in the US might as well suck it up, we will never be oil independent no matter how much we drill. Might be able to be energy independent but that will take using all our fossil fuels (coal, NG) combined plus renewable sources.


Price hurts, non availability kills. Go for a week or two, and civilization is at stake.



Explorer said:


> If gas was $10.00 a gal we would be a lot closer to being energy independent.


True. Problem is, we're already energy independent. We have several hundred years worth of NG. And even more wells, that have been drilled, and not fracked... because the market is glutted. Just the small 40 mile circle around my area would produce all the gas the country could use, for decades.

Go without gasoline, let the country crash, and then, then, maybe some high up muckety muck will get off of the renewable's sideshow, and get to the meat and taters... natural gas. I'd buy a new truck, if I could get a compressor to fill up at home, off my free ng tap.


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## edcopp (Oct 9, 2004)

Pouncer said:


> Diesel was $3.99 last night, and regular gas was $3.71. Both are up about 20 cents in the past week. The state is not collecting the eight cents a gallon highway tax either.
> 
> We're hosed up here because the state oil tax structure is tied to Texas crude in part. Plus we have a small population and only one refinery to make all our gas, diesel, and jet fuel.
> 
> ...


I think that the "Powers that Be" will be able to find a bit more "Crude" for the pipeline as soon as the price gets right. Say $200 per barrel sustained, or translated $6-7 per gallon at the pump. Be patient.


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## Txrider (Jun 25, 2010)

Ernie said:


> On the way to Milwaukee this morning I filled up at $3.23 per gallon. Last week I was at $3.05 per gallon. Driving home this afternoon by the same station gasoline was $3.59 per gallon.
> 
> I almost think they're spinning a wheel in there to see what the price ought to be.


$3.59 is just high to me, not insane.

$8 would be insane, but folks in many other countries pay that much.


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## whiterock (Mar 26, 2003)

3.35 at Exxon today, 3.23 at wal mart. South of Dallas about 30 miles.


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## NickieL (Jun 15, 2007)

3.55 now for regular today


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## oregon woodsmok (Dec 19, 2010)

My prediction: $5 a gallon before summer. Hope I'm wrong; don't expect to be.


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## MichaelK! (Oct 22, 2010)

time for an update

Diesel
2008 price 2011 price

1/02/08 3.47$/gallon 1/06/11 3.59$/gallon
2/21/08 3.75$/gallon 2/23/11 4.01$/gallon
4/08/08 4.08$/gallon 3/02/11 4.16$/gallon
5/12/08 4.68$/gallon 
6/25/08 4.93$/gallon
8/??/08 5.08$/gallon

Still going up

Here's the price comparison for 89 plus gasoline, at the same station

1/23/08 3.06$/gallon 1/02/11 3.39$/gallon
2/21/08 3.11$/gallon 2/23/11 3.68$/gallon
3/06/08 3.49$/gallon 3/02/11 3.89$/gallon (premium today was 3.99$)
4/01/08 3.70$/gallon
5/01/08 3.79$/gallon
6/01/08 4.39$/gallon
7/03/08 4.59$/gallon

Everybody has a simple answer like "it's temporary unrest in the Middle East", or "it's out of control speculators". If only there was no unrest, no speculation, no hurricanes, then everything will be fine.

That's not reality. What's really happening is as we start running out of oil, any little disturbance throws the whole system out of balance. Throw a little rock at someone and it might hurt a little. Throw a little rock at someone already leaning far over the edge of a cliff and they're going to fall hard!

That's where we are right now. Maxed out producing every single drop of oil we can and more isn't coming. That's why every little individual crisis here or there causes skyrocketing prices. We all need a plan! What's yours?


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## DavisHillFarm (Sep 12, 2008)

It's now up to $3.55/g tonight.


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## calliemoonbeam (Aug 7, 2007)

Just filled up at $3.19 in Sapulpa, just west of Tulsa. That's up 20 cents from a week ago.


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## secretcreek (Jan 24, 2010)

$3.55 at the local BP this evening...
-scrt crk Ohio


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## Pouncer (Oct 28, 2006)

Up another seven cents overnight....$3.71 yesterday, $3.78 today. Diesel just broke four bucks: $4.06 I think it was. 


Funny, the oil is drilled and refined here. We haven't had a tax increase. Yet we are still at the mercy of foreign events.


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## bee (May 12, 2002)

3/1--3.29 9/10 gal same station 3/2--3.45 9/10

Hope the weather settles so I can park the 19 mile/gal truck and get out the 35 mile/gal honda civic....


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