# maximum age for breeding a doe? What do you do with your 'too old to breed' does?



## cathleenc (Aug 16, 2007)

We just got our first 2 goats yesterday, both does that have been bred. The elder, age 6, is a cheerful, friendly saanen who looks like skin and bones in her back hips with a huge belly done below. She looks, well, old. We bought her because she was the dominant goat and milks/births easily - a friendly starter goat, more or less. She is very lively and outgoing and alert and hungry and other than her hips, looks pretty darn good. Of course she could be older than we've been told. Have not opened her mouth to look at her teeth but might try that tomorrow.

Am thinking of not rebreeding her and trying to keep her milking for two years. And then what? She'd be age 8 then. What do you do with an 8 yr old goat? Hard to imagine sending a goat who has worked so hard over the years to freezer camp..... yes, sentimental, but that's the way I am. I can easily and even eagerly look forward to consuming her kids for meat but her, well, I feel an old breeding animal should have some honor accorded her. Birthing and babies are hard work!

WWYD? What do you do with your older does? When do you stop breeding? Do you breed till you have a problem? 

thanks
Cathy


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## southerngurl (May 11, 2003)

6 isn't terribly old. Perhaps she just needs to pack on some fat. What is she eating?


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## KSALguy (Feb 14, 2006)

6 is in the prime of life, she is a solid mouth if she is that old and can keep going for several more years, 

when she starts loosing teeth is when she is starting to get OLD< as long as she is happy and healthy i would keep her in production. no reason not too, just give her groceries and let her have her kids and you get the milk and probably meat


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## marytx (Dec 4, 2002)

I've got a couple of nine year old goats due to kid in the next month or so. Yours surely has a few more good kidding years. I wouldn't be thinking retirement yet.
mary


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## cathleenc (Aug 16, 2007)

do all of your 6 yr goats look really boney around the hips? 

I'll try to post a picture tomorrow so you can see what I mean.


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## dezeeuwgoats (Jan 12, 2006)

Hip bones are supposed to stick out on a dairy goat....do post a picture so we can reassure you!

I've heard 10-12 year average on breeding does. You can certainly retire a doe. However, at some point, when the quality of life is deteriorating it is more humane and respectful to put her down. 

I dread facing this myself - my oldest doe is seven. At this point, I believe I would rather not waste the animal. I am planning on making sausage with my old does. If I'm too sentimental about eating it, then I will give it to a needy family.

Niki


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## Vicki McGaugh TX Nubians (May 6, 2002)

I have only buried 2 goats in 21 years, just could not butcher them. And only one old girl was put down because she was simply dieing....congestive heart failure as she just finished delivering two doelings, she was 12. Even then my first thought was to call the vet and see what she thought...she thought "Vicki is this Poptart? Isn't she like 12? What are your thinking?" So my husband put her down and we buried her. Amber was put down after a very long period of just being off, turned out to be a massive uterine infection on the lining of her uterus after having her eggs harvested.

Each person has to decide for themselves what they will do with elder stock. And 6 may not be old here, but a doe who has not had a good life, especially with many owners or who is CAE positive can be old at 6. I choose to butcher does who can not kid and milk each year. I put down bucks who go sterile or who are older and I just won't let them be sold. There are times I would much rather put a goat down than have them go to a home where the care isn't what I would want, or to be resold over and over.

It's awful for me to read when folks let goats die, who can't let go when disease is so far over their head and they don't have the money or skill to take care of the stock. Choosing a quick death over a slow painful death is a no brainer to me. And having old barren does around is a drain both emotionally and financially. Vicki


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## steff bugielski (Nov 10, 2003)

I have two age 11. They were two out three first does I got. The other was put down years ago, birthing problem. One of the two has not had any kids in about 4 years. She had been herd queen and had given me so many babies and milk over the years she has earned the right to live out her life. The other I am still milking. She is in heat now and every year I think it will be her last pregnancy, but then she surprises me. She looks boney, in the hips only. I asked the vet about it, he said she simply had no more muscle left to hold up her abdomen. Kinda like a women who has let herself really go. She had triplets most years and I guess I would have a sagging gut if I had triplets every year for 10 years.
Around here if I don't cull a goat by two or three she lives here the rest of her life.


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## cathleenc (Aug 16, 2007)

steff bugielski said:


> I I asked the vet about it, he said she simply had no more muscle left to hold up her abdomen.
> 
> 
> > That's what this goat looks like - like her pregnancy just got the best of her and everything has rolled down into a big jolly roll.
> ...


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## Corky (May 11, 2002)

Molly will be 13 when she kids this next spring.

She has had some health problems after kidding in the past and this worries me but people that are supposed to know see her and tell me I am wrong about her age.

They always say she is much younger than I think.

The problem with that is she has been right here sense she was a year old.
No. I am NOT wrong about her age.
She is still full bodied and shiny and healthy looking.
She is a black goat and has almost no gray hair. One or two here and there.
She gives milk whether bred or not. She may or may not be bred because as she ages she sometimes remains open. I think shes done and she fools me and kids again so we will just see.
She also triplets every time.


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## Sweet Goats (Nov 30, 2005)

I just lost my first doe and she was 15. She had babies (twins), on her 14th Birthday. 
If they are well taken care of, they will do fine. Wow, I have a doe that is 7, and she is pregnant. I could not imagine not breeding her. I have my Grand Champion over all Doe that just turned 6 this year. Not breeding her, NEVER crossed my mind.


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## cathleenc (Aug 16, 2007)

I think she has a horrid butt line - but it's the absolute scrawnyness of her back hips that concern me now. What do you think? (grade saanen)


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## Jim S. (Apr 22, 2004)

You could feed her up some, she looks thin. But I also recognize I am viewing a pic, and age sometimes makes them thinner. Her eyes look bright and she's not sullen. Still, I'd raise the nutrition level a bit as far as TDN. Belly looks fine to me, I have had them do just fine like that. The kids do drop in any goat as it gets closer to term, for a straighter shot into the world. I don't think these have dropped quite as far as they are going to, yet. As far as width, you ought to see some of the pix that have been posted on here, especially of boers! Don't let that throw ya.

Plus, the usual: Be sure she is not wormy and/or full of cocci. The hollow flanks are an across-the-pasture visual cue to check for that.

Maximum theoretical age for kidding is about 12 years, but there are many folks with goats older than that kidding. It's genetics. Some can go longer than others, just like humans.

I sell the older goats as culls at the auction barn. Only the members of my first herd got to die and be buried on the place, which gave me a great education in geriatric diseases and cancers in goats. I have one son of the first herd member left, and he's 14. He'll die and be buried here, too. The rest will go as culls, because the cull price is higher than the dead price.

Ideally, as my meat herd ramps up, I will keep no doe beyond about 4-5 years old. Ideally, I will eat it, sell it to be eaten, or sell it as herd stock. Working toward that end of the 5-year plan now, in latter Year 2.


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## cathleenc (Aug 16, 2007)

Jim S. said:


> Plus, the usual: Be sure she is not wormy and/or full of cocci. The hollow flanks are an across-the-pasture visual cue to check for that.


I checked her gums and inner eye lids while she was in the stantion for feed tonight - looks awfully pale to me. 

What do you think of this plan? I'm brand new to the area, no vet contacts. I've got a referral for a good large animal vet close to me. I'm thinking of calling and having him come out and look at her and the other pregnant goat. Test for CL and CAE. Show me how to draw blood. Make a contact before I have a crisis, get the goats taken care of with some expertise, build a vet relationship.

overkill reaction or appropriate?


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## manygoatsnmore (Feb 12, 2005)

Totally appropriate.


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## billygoatridge (Feb 12, 2004)

I have four bred that will be twelve years old by the time they kid. One eleven year old and three 10 year olds bred plus a few others 7-9 yrs old. I don't see any more kidding difficulties in the old ones than I do younger ones. They usually don't have as much milk by the time they reach 10, so I may just have them raise one or two according to their milk production and sell the others as bottle kids. As long as they will produce I breed them. Even if I have to sell their bottle kids at the sale barn they are contributing to their feed bill. The oldest I've had kid was 14. I'm like cathleenc, once they are two years old they are usually here to stay.


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## cathleenc (Aug 16, 2007)

the vet came out today - t hought both goats were underfed, both had parasites, but the saanen in my pictures was by far worse off. Commented that both were well socialized, friendly, lively, looked good except for signs of parasites (bristley hair, sunken flanks, pale gums & eye lids for the saanen). I'm glad I got to meet him - liked him - and glad my gals should be getting better.


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## Corky (May 11, 2002)

When I saw that picture I said "yuk! Worms! 
I am glad you had the vet chek them out. They will get better now.
She is by no means an old doe. Just an unhealthy one.


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## Laura Workman (May 10, 2002)

Yep, she's thin with a rough coat but otherwise looks just fine. Worm her and feed her, free choice alfalfa pellets and a little beet pulp can do wonders. Just watch that she doesn't get more grain than her system can handle. When she's gaining weight nicely, like in a month or so, breed her. If you catch her when she's gaining, she'll have more babies. More babies means smaller babies and more milk. )


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## Feral Nature (Feb 21, 2007)

If she were mine, I would worm her with ivermectin-plus, feed her alfalfa pellets and good hay. Also make sure she has good loose goat minerals. She has to maintain the pregnancy AND increase her own weight and health so expect a slow gradual change. By next spring when she slicks off she may look like a completely different goat. Also, dairy goats are by nature a little boney so don't try to make her big and fat. Just fleshed out a bit better with a nicer coat. After you get her on her way you can brush her and some of the nasty old coat will start shedding out too, even while she is growing a new winter coat.


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## ozark_jewels (Oct 7, 2005)

What a sweet face on that old gal!  
If she was my girl, I would just slowly put her over onto a ration of alfalfa or alfalfa pellets, with access to free-choice grass hay, fresh water and free-choice loose minerals. I would worm her immediately with Cydectin, then again a couple weeks later. I would also treat her for lice. Give her a good dose of Bo-Se and Vitamin C for her immune system. And just give her time to get back into shape. She should have several years of kiddings ahead of her still.


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## cathleenc (Aug 16, 2007)

ozark_jewels said:


> What a sweet face on that old gal!


thank you for saying that! She is sweet. I specifically got these goats because 6 human kids had been taking care of them and we have small children. These goats want loving! Demand scratching. Want attention. They are so social. Sweet. Interactive. (slightly neglected but loved)

Can't wait to see Jesse, the elder, get some shine back on her. 

The vet visit was good - he was able to tell me that he, personally, had taken care of the 2 old wethers who had previously lived in our pasture (before we bought the farm) and that both were CL and CAE free. Sigh of relief. I asked - and received - the name of a strong goat owner close to me who might be willing to teach me hands on skills in exchange for free labor. I'd like to get some knowledge and skills under my belt quickly and honor these animals with good husbandry.


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## Feral Nature (Feb 21, 2007)

Oh, the reason i said ivermectin instead of cydectin is because i thought she was bred...nevermind...use cydectin like emily said


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## Corky (May 11, 2002)

Feral Nature said:


> Oh, the reason i said ivermectin instead of cydectin is because i thought she was bred...nevermind...use cydectin like emily said


The very post said she got both does and they had been bred.


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## Feral Nature (Feb 21, 2007)

Then I need new glasses so i can read everything correctly...thanks Corky.

So if she is bred use ivermectin during pregnancy and cydectin the day she kids.


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## Corky (May 11, 2002)

HA!, I REALLY DO need new glasses. 
I did go back and read a couple of her posts to make sure and yep. They are both supposed to be bred.


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## ozark_jewels (Oct 7, 2005)

I use Cydectin on all my bred does too. Though I try not to worm bred does if possible. This one though, needs it.


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## hoofinitnorth (Oct 18, 2006)

The better breeders I know have goats breeding (so far) into age 9 and 10 and they are still doing well. It's REALLY NICE to see old does like this on the property, and still producing to boot, because you can see how well they've held up over time based on their genetic capabilities and their lifetime management. It's also extremely helpful to see how the breeders have adjusted their breeding programs to improve this or that. This is one thing that really helped me to understand the importance of a good spring of ribs! If the doe "loses her figure" early in life and looks like a Pygmy when she's NOT a Pygmy, you can easily see where the doe needs improvement and look for that in a companion buck.


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## Francis Hoenig (Mar 27, 2020)

I have a old doe, 14 that our buck bent our cattle panel and got out and bred her. She seems happy, very big just old. What is something I can give her to help her have enough energy to have them. She hasn't had kids since she was 10. She always has multiples. I have her eating by herself twice a day. Good mix hay and good grain and pellet mix.


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## Caprice Acres (Mar 6, 2005)

Francis Hoenig said:


> I have a old doe, 14 that our buck bent our cattle panel and got out and bred her. She seems happy, very big just old. What is something I can give her to help her have enough energy to have them. She hasn't had kids since she was 10. She always has multiples. I have her eating by herself twice a day. Good mix hay and good grain and pellet mix.


The last post before yours as in 2007. Please avoid dredging up old posts as many of these posters no longer frequent the forum. Searching the historic forum can be useful, but commenting brings ancient posts to the front page.


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## GTX63 (Dec 13, 2016)

Welcome to Homesteading Today.
I haven't seen or heard of any 14 year old goat mom to be around here, lol. I'm not sure what more you can do other than ensuring she had dedicated feed and a watchful eye. Please keep us updated.


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