# 7 month old GP pup, need training advice. killing chickens



## eclipchic (Oct 24, 2010)

Y'alls were kind enough to help me before, so I'm hoping you can help us with our new challenge. Same pup, now 7 months old. We put her through puppy "kindergarten" and we've been working all the basic commands but the problem is now two fold; stealing eggs, killing chickens. The eggs one we tried a decoy shell filled with hot sauce- which she ate and she's still taking eggs. The chickens she's taking are leghorn cockerels and thankfully only the leghorn cockerels, but we need to nip this in the bud. She killed one the last week of July, we weren't actually sure she killed it right off. The second one this morning we found, she must have killed the night before. She was finally caught with one tonight, in her mouth but still alive. My husband caught her and I know he gave her more than a stern talking to. 

So I know the obvious first steps would be to only allow her outside supervised, on leash or tie out.....but that seems to me that avoids the problem but doesn't really solve it. Maybe a good place to start but what steps do we need to take to actually modify her behavior. We'd like her to be a farm dog and part of that includes her actually patrolling the area, which she does pretty well when she's not being a teenager.


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## DaniR1968 (May 24, 2008)

Are you able to pen the chickens where she can't get to them without supervision? If not, she will need to be in a kennel or stall or something unless supervised. 

She will need to be supervised at all times right now until she learns this is not appropriate behavior. She will need to be corrected if she tries to chase the chickens. My girl is sensitive enough that a verbal correction is enough. It shouldn't take too long before she gets the idea.

She can be turned into a good farm dog. She's still young. I think most go through a stage where they do things they really shouldn't. You just have to be patient and work with her right now.


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## eclipchic (Oct 24, 2010)

DaniR1968 said:


> Are you able to pen the chickens where she can't get to them without supervision? If not, she will need to be in a kennel or stall or something unless supervised.
> 
> She will need to be supervised at all times right now until she learns this is not appropriate behavior. She will need to be corrected if she tries to chase the chickens. My girl is sensitive enough that a verbal correction is enough. It shouldn't take too long before she gets the idea.
> 
> She can be turned into a good farm dog. She's still young. I think most go through a stage where they do things they really shouldn't. You just have to be patient and work with her right now.


She's in our utility room when she's not outdoors. We don't really have it set up to pen the chickens.

I'm in complete agreement with you, I just have to get hubby on board.

I was reading in my searching around online a suggestion to tether her to us while we do chicken chores, correcting her when she shows excitement, starts to chase....basically the idea was to desensitize her. It sounds like it could work or at least set up the foundation to getting her on the right path


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## pygmybabies (Apr 24, 2010)

we brought both of ours home around7-8 weeks old and the chase chickens and killed a few and they stayed in a pen while we werent out there, but it was where the chickens were right with them and able to walk up to thier pen, we also used a shock collar that we controlled and used a shock when they started to chase or even get near the chickens. Now the chickens jump on their backs and the mamma dog was even sleeping with a chicken in the dog house with her laying an egg in there. Now our egg problem is not quite fixed. The dogs can not get into the chicken house to eat the eggs out of the boxes, but when the crazy chickens lay the eggs out in the lean too where the goat pens are and the dogs are, they will eat them, I try to go out several times a day and get the ones that are layed out where ever before the dogs get them. I have about 5 chickens that are laying on the ground right in the pen where the GP just had her babies. Luckily she hasnt been hungry for eggs the last few days but I am sure she will be so I have to make sure to get them before she does. So I also would like advice from anyone with how to make them stop eating eggs


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## Cheryl aka JM (Aug 7, 2007)

Your on the right track. The suggestion to tether her to you, to separate her when you can't supervise, and to understand and remember she is a puppy are good suggestions. 

I hesitate to suggest this as it is very subjective in understanding what I mean....
Your husband giving her "more than a stern talking to" when caught in the act was also helpful. I don't advocate beating the dog....but I have been known to beat a dog with the dead chicken screaming bad dog to make my extreme displeasure with the situation apparent. She needs to understand how very, very, VERY much you disapprove of chicken chasing and catching. 

I am right now working with a 5 month old puppy who is.....very hard headed. Just the other day a friend and I were out there demonstrating to him how very displeased we were with the dead turkey poult we had just discovered ~the turkey poult got into his pen....and it wasn't the first. Well apparently the "reward" of catching and killing the turkey poult was greater than the displeasure he was getting from us and every time we backed off the dog and stopped yelling at him he would re-lunge at the turkey poult. Clearly this pup has not gotten the message that turkey poults are NOT FUN. So I ordered a new shock collar (my older Innotek has stopped functioning...its not the first Innotek I've owned and had to replace....do not pay for Innotek....overpriced collar will stop functioning if not used for a number of months and then asked to service again). I bought a cheap collar on Amazon with a 30 day warranty. If I can't break him of LOOKING at turkey poults in 30 days then we will have a bigger problem. And thats exactly what I'm going to do and what I would suggest you do. I'm gonna put the puppy in his pen, and I'm gonna toss turkey poults, guinea keets, chickens, any poultry that will make a loud fun sounding fuss about being tossed over the fence into his pen. Then I"m gonna nail him if he shows any more than a passing interest to note that the bird came into his pen.

Time and consistent disapproval. Harsh disapproval if the "Reward" of the chase and kill are greater than the pups fear of your disapproval. Don't really beat the dog unless the dog is currently killing a chicken and then stop the moment the dog lets go of the chicken. When talking about this here we reference "beating the dog"....but don't really physically beat the dog. You will force the dog into a situation in which he will feel he must bite to excape...and then your dog has bitten you and it is your fault. A shock collar is a great tool. Don't spend the money on an expensive one, you don't need an expensive one. You just need one good enough to administer a correction from a distance when you see the dog get that intent look and prep for the lunge.....THATS when you want to correct him not after the chase has begun. The chase and catch are WAY too much fun for a little shock to properly correct or distract.

Hope all that helps and makes sense
Good luck!


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## eclipchic (Oct 24, 2010)

That does make sense. Our neighbor has offered to let us use his shock collar to help train her so I think it's about time we took them up on that offer.


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## DaniR1968 (May 24, 2008)

While I am not against a shock collar, I think it's something that should be left as a last resort.

If the pup has killed chickens and only been caught once, the pup has not been properly supervised up until now so probably doesn't know she is doing anything wrong.


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## bricned (Jul 3, 2006)

I have found that a good strong shock collar is your best bet. You need to be 
quiet and let the dog think that the chicken did it. I now have a rescue dog that
was over a year old when he got to my farm. If I had not used a good strong 
shock collar I would not have been able to keep this dog. He has turned out to
be one of the better dogs that I have owned. I will turn 75 in a couple of weeks.
I have been dealing with livestock and dog most all of my life. I have learn one 
thing dogs are like people what works with one will not necessarily work for
another.
Good Luck


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## eclipchic (Oct 24, 2010)

so an update....we've been working on leash with her, haven't had her off leash again but on leash and tied out she's not showing any interest in the birds. So no new birds dead. We expected our eggs #'s to improve but really they aren't. She must not have been eating as many eggs as we had thought


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## Ness (Jun 22, 2011)

On the eggs, I have generally accepted this as something our LGD does, and we take measures to make sure he can't get in the coop. But, for instance, if one of the ducks lay where he can get into the eggs - it's actually pretty funny because he'll only sneak 1-2 out of the nest at a time, so she'll go on laying and he'll get lunch for a few weeks before someone figures out what he's up to again!  

So no, she probably wasn't taking as many eggs as you thought, the taking live chickens is far more serious and sounds like you're on the right track. May have been she didn't kill the first one, but did find it dead and then put 2 and 2 together. 

Eggs are also his favourite treat, really I should change his name to "Eggs?" 'cause he always come running when I call!  

GL!


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## Cheryl aka JM (Aug 7, 2007)

Good Job!

Yeah I've pretty much given up on the idea of teaching the dogs not to eat eggs. It's kind of impossible to enforce with large property and free range birds. The birds lay eggs out under a bush and they just sit there....tempting the dog. And I don't know they are there so eventually the dog sneaks one, two, three....then the eggs are not under that bush any more and I never knew they were there to start with. So I just do my best to encourage the chickens to lay their eggs IN the coop and the coop doors are kept too small for the dogs to get in the coops. Patrol all the way around, but not IN the coops.

News on the 5 month old Anatolian pup I'm working with. New shock collar came in yesterday. Put it on him and one on the other dog I want to stop killing chickens (other dog is not an LGD~ he is a house guardian Rott but he still needs to not be killing my chickens!) Anyway~ put the collars on and started tossing poultry. Dogs got a couple good shocks, then started running to us humans to protect them from those hateful mean chickens! Good Dog! Good Dog! Lots of reward and calm from us on what good dogs they are leaving them hateful mean chickens alone! Thats day one.....the dogs will continue to need training, but now they have the idea that sneaking up on chickens might just not be such a run game, while avoiding a chicken gets rewarded.


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## lonelyfarmgirl (Feb 6, 2005)

We had this problem with our LGD when he was young. It was a very easy problem to solve.

One day, DH caught him with a chicken. Instead of getting mad, he said here max and the dog came and he took the bird. He then tied max up right next to the electric fence. He hung that very bird by it's legs to the electric and turned the juice back on. Pat on the head and walked away. 

Three bites of that bird later, and well, max is now 8 1/2 and has yet to touch another bird. Even when he is occasionally attacked by a broody hen or turkey, he won't. 

To stop to egg eating? Forget it.


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## AJohnston (Aug 17, 2012)

My australian shephard/catahoula mix was having the same issue. And it wasn't just the livestock, it was the cats too. We've been trying to nip it in the butt before he actually ends up killing something. Nothing was really working to get his attention, so we eventually took to every time his mouth went on another animal, we'd grab him by the scruff and bite his ear. (Yeah, I know, I'm weird.) Now, every time he even starts to act like he wants to play with something he shouldn't be playing with, I'll tell him "You wanna get bit again?" and he'll walk away. Of course, me and my boyfriend may be the only ones comfortable with giving our dog a bite! lol I think it's more natural and he's learning quicker from it than anything else we've tried.


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## Shayanna (Aug 1, 2012)

AJohnston said:


> My australian shephard/catahoula mix was having the same issue. And it wasn't just the livestock, it was the cats too. We've been trying to nip it in the butt before he actually ends up killing something. Nothing was really working to get his attention, so we eventually took to every time his mouth went on another animal, we'd grab him by the scruff and bite his ear. (Yeah, I know, I'm weird.) Now, every time he even starts to act like he wants to play with something he shouldn't be playing with, I'll tell him "You wanna get bit again?" and he'll walk away. Of course, me and my boyfriend may be the only ones comfortable with giving our dog a bite! lol I think it's more natural and he's learning quicker from it than anything else we've tried.


I used to do this with my old dog Sadie. She was quite rowdy whenever we would play and wrestle, but if she ever got too rough and nipped, we would take her down to the ground and bite her ear.


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## lonelyfarmgirl (Feb 6, 2005)

I have bit my goats ear on occasion when they were hurting me.


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## AJohnston (Aug 17, 2012)

I'm glad I'm not the only one that's willing to bite an ear to teach a lesson!


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## Plantman (Nov 17, 2012)

I have even bit my kids ears. didn't always work with them though....lol


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## tracerracer (Oct 6, 2012)

Plantman said:


> I have even bit my kids ears. didn't always work with them though....lol


LOL ound:.... ( Kids are the ROUGHEST to train BY FAR :hysterical: )


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## TamiJoyFarm (Oct 18, 2012)

lonelyfarmgirl said:


> We had this problem with our LGD when he was young. It was a very easy problem to solve.
> 
> One day, DH caught him with a chicken. Instead of getting mad, he said here max and the dog came and he took the bird. He then tied max up right next to the electric fence. He hung that very bird by it's legs to the electric and turned the juice back on. Pat on the head and walked away.
> 
> ...


I'm going to try this with my 9 month GP if he even looks at one of our meat birds!


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## lonelyfarmgirl (Feb 6, 2005)

It worked really great, because it was the bird punishing him, rather than the human.


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## littledoe (May 26, 2006)

I don't know how much help I can be here because I have only had to train one pyr female and she is now two years old. When we brought her home, she would play with the chickens until she killed them but she wasn't eating them. I had a kennel that I used as a time out area. The minute she looked at a chicken the wrong way she was given a stern 'no'. I made her sit down and I took her to that kennel. It nearly killed that dog for me to do my farm chores without her running along side me. We went through this repeatedly while I was out doing chores. I did lose a few chickens that she 'played' with before she got the message. But she did eventually get it. I did have to keep her in a kennel area when I was in the house until we got this under control. Chickens were walking all around her during this time. She still goes and takes eggs from nests in the woods or around the house but I have considered that no big deal. If she goes in the coop where they lay in boxes, she would get in big trouble and I broke her of that as well using the same time out methods. I just assume that dogs don't like being away from you. Pretty much the same way young children are. They like company and it's a killer for them to have to be in the kennel while you are having all the fun doing the farm work... I hope this helps you. Your dog may require something different but it would be worth a try. My pyr is out all the time now and guards ducks, geese, chickens, goats and horses. She now follows chickens into the fields to keep watch over them. I think she has come a long way. I hope the same for you. They are wonderful animals. I also had mine spayed as I feel this gives you a little calmer animal.

Mia


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## peteyfoozer (Nov 23, 2012)

My Maremmas both chased and killed chickens if they saw them loose when they were pups. IT was just too big of a temptation not to play with them. They would pin them and pluck them, poor chickens would still be alive but in shock. Particularly Cletus. He just LOVED chickens! He'd get so excited if he caught one, he'd come to me tail wagging and have me follow to show me his prize. Ack! I bought a citronella spray collar to use when the dogs were chasing and when I would catch my dogs, I'd make them lay down while I put the live chickens on them and let the chickens walk around on them, not allowing the dog to get up or move. A week later they were dependable poultry guards at about 18 months old. They now guard all my free ranging poultry as well as our annual Cornish X that run loose every summer until we process them. A lot of the killing by these dogs is not much more than puppy playfulness, which is why it's important to prevent casualties in order to insure success.


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## notbutanapron (Jun 30, 2011)

Here in the country, you kill a bird, you get wholloped over the head with one. All my dogs have only killed one chicken in their life - the one they were wholloped with. I like the person who calmly used the electric fence though, that's a good one.

I also do chores with my dog. Same idea, any time they show interest, no bad dog. After awhile they learn it's something we protect, not kill.

I'm quite please my dog doesn't eat eggs. I've got him bringing them in for me  only sometimes he drops them too hard. ound:


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## motdaugrnds (Jul 3, 2002)

Most (if not all) puppies will chase chickens. They all need supervision when around fowl. 

I've discovered, once I've taken my puppies thru the initial stages of obedience training, they are more easily trained what they can (and cannot) touch or play with. When our puppies are young (one at a time is all I work with), if I keep myself tuned in to their instinctual behaviors, I can pretty much shout an appropriate command at the instant they even "think" of chasing a chicken. [Remember though, puppies need to play. Knowing your puppy will let you know when to let them play and when they are going too far in their play. My German Shephard pup played with ducks by pretending it was going to bite it and then jumping back. The duck would actually play in this manner too. It was fun to watch.]

Our Lab was more difficult to train in that I didn't take as much time with him as I needed to; so he had a goose by the neck dragging it around before we became aware of it. David took the goose and I got a piece of a rubber hose. I hit the lab (now about 9 months old) over the head while David let the goose peck him on the nose. That was the last time this lab fooled with a goose! (I don't condone violence with any animal. I'ld much rather understand them instinctually; however, some dogs are as hard-headed as some humans. We simply need to know and understand the dog we have. [I actually would not have a dog that was so docile it would not be able to stand up against whatever might threaten the animals (4 and 2 legged) around here.]

At this time I'm looking for a female Anatolian puppy (mid-long haired). I want it for my small goat herd.


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## Rock (Jan 5, 2009)

Bill Kohler had a method for insulating the bird from the ground and wiring it with a fence charger, so the dog becomes the ground & gets zapped through the mouth. Very fast effective lesson.


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## thequeensblessing (Mar 30, 2003)

Our Pyr *****, Liberty, had a fetish about killing chickens when she was a pup. We tried everything short of beating her. Finally, after my chicken flock dwindled down to a handful of chickens from 2 dozen, I decided she was either going to get beat, or my hubby was going to carry out his threat to introduce her to his heavy metals collection (and we're not talking music!) Sooo...I literally smacked her with a dead chicken, more than once. Sounds cruel, I know. That was the last chicken she ever killed. She is now a little over a year old and can be trusted with chickens, lambs, and even kittens. She is the perfect LGD today.


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## hugh (Apr 22, 2009)

When I was a kid our dog who had been around chickens for years (6or7) killed about 20 chickens. I ran bailing wire though the bird and wired it tightly under her neck and chained her to the work bench on a 2 foot chain with only water for 2 days. She never bothered another bird. Jump ahead about 25 years we had a Mastif pup and she got a duck down right in front of me. I just yelled at her and scolded her and she has never bothered another bird Like the older person said each dog is different.


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