# the Springfeild XDE



## GREENCOUNTYPETE (Jul 25, 2006)

not sure if you have seen this new gun yet it was released at Shot2017 and is getting to stores in the last few weeks.

http://www.springfield-armory.com/xde-series/

the company that pushed striker fired superiority has released their new , hammer fired pistol?

I had seen the add and wondered why , why would a company pushing striker for the last 16 years now release a hammer fired gun a DA/SA gun at that?

well last week I was in the local gun store as a guy was picking his up , so I asked why he was choosing the XD-E.

to which he told me all about how it has both a manual safety and a long DA trigger pull , and decocker and I began to understand why. 

this is a friends shop and people buying guns is good for him so I made no further inquiry.

but I think Springfield realized there are just some people who feel a gun needs a manual safety and a long DA trigger pull to be safe to carry and with fewer and fewer companies making one they thought they would take any market share they could get.

I worry that these are the same people who thumb back the hammer on every round at the range on their revolver because it lets them shoot a nicer target , then put the gun in a holster to carry , I wonder if they will thumb back the hammer should they have to draw for a defensive shooting.

I generally see people with DA/SA autos at the range insert a mag , rack the slide and begin shooting , I wonder if they ever practice that DA trigger pull.

I can only hope that those with DA/SA pistols are taking the time to train for the draw and DA trigger pull , because if they are carrying the gun for self defense that is what they should probably be training on the most and not the light SA trigger pull. 

I think it sort of Ironic just as the US Army decides to go striker fired , DA/SA makes a comeback , maybe. 

what do you think?


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## Texaspredatorhu (Sep 15, 2015)

I carry a 1911 as my main squeeze, hammer back or course. A glock 19 as a backup. Haven't carried my usp in awhile but still shoot the snot out of it. I like a hammer and I also like the light pull of my 1911. It's safe and effective, not to mention the thin profile compared to other 45s. I will say that the XD-E has me slightly intrigued as well as to why when I believe they had striker fired versions with safeties. I do like the decocker though I have a sig with it and when I carried it I would decock after clambering a round and yes I did practice shooting DA. The carry courses if they must be required need to focus more on training as well as the laws. Scenario type training is always good when it comes to conceal carry.


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## GREENCOUNTYPETE (Jul 25, 2006)

I agree any DA\SA pistol should have a decocker 

ruger did a few guns like the P89-DC, and P95-DC with decock only it had what looked like a safety lever when placed in what would be the ON position it decocked the pistol but when you let off the lever it sprang back up to the OFF position .

S&W even on the early Model 39 had a Decocker safety but if left it the ON position is was both and had to be removed.
the Beretta F92/M9 works the same way

the Sig P226 had only a decocker 

I just thought it was odd that over the last 3 decades the striker has taken over the new defensive gun market then a company that has pushed striker for 16+ years makes a hammer fired DA\SA gun.

the 1911 was designed to be carried cocked and locked you train to remove the safety as you establish your grip and clear the holster.


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

GREENCOUNTYPETE said:


> I had seen the add and wondered why , *why* would a company pushing striker for the last 16 years now release a hammer fired gun a DA/SA gun at that?


They are just taking advantage of that part of the market that doesn't like striker fired guns.
Many don't feel they are as safe as a double action with a heavier pull.


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## Texaspredatorhu (Sep 15, 2015)

GREENCOUNTYPETE said:


> I agree any DA\SA pistol should have a decocker
> 
> ruger did a few guns like the P89-DC, and P95-DC with decock only it had what looked like a safety lever when placed in what would be the ON position it decocked the pistol but when you let off the lever it sprang back up to the OFF position .
> 
> ...


Exactly, I see a lot of people that carry 1911s carry either on an empty chamber hammer down or my biggest pet peeve half cocked. I guess they don't care about winning the gunfight or fending off an attack.


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## GREENCOUNTYPETE (Jul 25, 2006)

Bearfootfarm said:


> They are just taking advantage of that part of the market that doesn't like striker fired guns.
> Many don't feel they are as safe as a double action with a heavier pull.


I get taking advantage of the market if the customer wants let them have it , the striker fired guns don't discharge on a 3 story drop , just don't pull the trigger and if you want it heavier changing the springs is very easy add a NY trigger but hey what ever sells guns.

just a little ironic that when the hole world seems to be going striker one of the some what early striker makers goes DA/SA

I just hope they train for it , but I don't often see people decocking and fire double action in live fire practice at the ranges I have been to.


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

GREENCOUNTYPETE said:


> I just hope they train for it , but I don't often see people decocking and fire double action in live fire practice at the ranges I have been to.


It's not so much for safety while firing multiple rounds as it is for drawing or reholstering , which is when many of the ND's occur with striker fired pistols.


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## GREENCOUNTYPETE (Jul 25, 2006)

I understand a safety for holstering , but it effects their first shot , what may be a very important shot , a lot of people already pull off target when trying to fire quickly , there is a lot of bad trigger control out there going form 6-12 pounds and making it long doesn't help most people in the trigger control department.

when I go to bowling pin shoot at our club I try to challenge people using revolvers to not pull back the hammer but try squeezing through it usually changes their hit rate by near 50% where they might have taken all 5 pins in 6 rounds they might leave 3 standing and have fired all 6 rounds , I can only hope that it opens their eyes that they need to practice that more , especially if they carry a revolver or DA/SA pistol.

the XD already had the grip safety so is you change your grip re-holstering to get off the grip safety it was a non issue , I can even see putting an external manual safety on so that it it locks the slide and blocks the trigger bar for holstering but to go back to learning two trigger pulls , seems like exactly what everyone else is getting away from.

admittedly I carry a DA only hammer fired gun all the time , but I trained to learn the DA pull , If I was to be replacing that gun today , I would have the striker fired version of it , but that wasn't available when I purchased it and it isn't really a heavy pull just a long one.


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

GREENCOUNTYPETE said:


> *I trained* to learn the DA pull


If everyone would do that with the guns they carry, the style wouldn't make any practical difference. 

I learned to shoot double action revolvers more than 55 years ago, back when that's what most LEO's were issued. I learned how to draw and fire 6 rounds as fast as I could and still keep them all in a fairly straight line from the naval to the forehead when fired from 7-10 yards. We called it "stitching".

I never knew anyone that shot them single action when practicing "tactical" shooting. 

Only when shooting for group size alone or sighting in did I see anyone cocking the hammer between shots.


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## GREENCOUNTYPETE (Jul 25, 2006)

Bearfootfarm said:


> If everyone would do that with the guns they carry, the style wouldn't make any practical difference.
> 
> I learned to shoot double action revolvers more than 55 years ago, back when that's what most LEO's were issued. I learned how to draw and fire 6 rounds as fast as I could and still keep them all in a fairly straight line from the naval to the forehead when fired from 7-10 yards. We called it "stitching".
> 
> ...


I think the problem is many people don't practice "tactical" shooting , but then carry the gun that they call their carry gun that they shoot but not in a "tactical" way.

I get it some , if you go to the indoor range you get in a booth , they may not want you drawing form a holster so you run the target out and shoot at it so it turns into shooting a small group. where it should be involving a lot more run the target out to a short distance , hold the gun in a high ready / retention like you just came out of the holster , fire 2 rounds on target from retention , push out and fire 2 , pull back to retention push out fire 2 if it is a revolver all DA if it is a DA/SA decock between shot strings . run it out a little further repeat , then mag change practice if you run an auto , target transition it may not be far apart but if you can post 2-3 targets on the cardboard backer it gets you moving better than one , it can be as simple as printing large numbers or paper desert plates that you number , if you have a partner with have them call out a sting of 3 numbers you have to shoot them as quickly as you can if not pic your own stings of 3 numbers make sure they move around so that your going from edge to edge of your target backer and back.

ideally we would all have access to a space where we could practice multi target drills while moving from place to place , working cover , shooting right and left handed , kneeling standing squatting , crouched , practicing move and fire drills , and run these drills on a timer so we can compare our times and scores to see where we need more practice.
people should check their local gun clubs for action pistol , steel challenge , idpa , anything to get them shooting outside the comfort zone of stand in one spot put rounds into one target , from one position.


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

GREENCOUNTYPETE said:


> ideally we would all have access to a space where we could practice multi target drills


I was lucky.
My dad was a certified rifle and pistol instructor, and a part time LEO, so I had access to a Sheriff's Department shooting range at an early age, and it was less than 10 miles from our house.

I learned to fire a Thompson full auto before I was 10, but I spent the majority of my time with a S&W Model 19 or a Colt 1911.


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## GREENCOUNTYPETE (Jul 25, 2006)

I have been fortunate to have had good places to go shoot since I was a kid and first started shooting I got a bit later start than you , didn't do much shooting till I was 11.

some of it good fortune I suppose but it was important to me so I made it a priority to belong to a sportsmans club or rifle and pistol club range near were I was living once I was out of school.

there are ranges out there , they may not advertise that they are around , but if you look you can find them , and find a way to be come a member , often for less than a you would pay for a YMCA membership.

I currently belong to 2 clubs and have indoor and outdoor range facilities. at the outdoor range I can set up just about anything would want and go out to 200 yards , but it does not get plowed in the winter at all so when the snow is deep it is indoor time unless I want to try a rifle then it is park on the side of the road and walk in to the range , I have walked in in the winter when the snow was deep some but it is a lot of extra work. sometimes we get a mid winter thaw and can get into the range then.

the guys that make me jsut shake my head will buy ammo buy the case , and guns that are not low dollar . then complain about 100 dollars a year in range dues , to be able to go shoot whenever they want , literally have the key , the one range I belong to we have key cards and 24/7 access , if I want to shoot at midnight I can.


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

We have a local "wildlife club" that has outdoor rifle and pistol ranges, and at least one Saturday or Sunday every month they have a different "action shooting" set-up that anyone can attend and compete at all levels from those with the $2000 "race guns" to the first time shooters just starting out. 

It's a lot of fun to shoot or to just watch, and most are friendly and willing to help teach others.


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## GREENCOUNTYPETE (Jul 25, 2006)

ours is 2nd and 4th Tuesday nights at the indoor range , bowling pin every other Thursday at the outdoor during the summer.

same type of thing you can run anything you want and we had a 2 guys running 2K dollar race guns and a guy borrowing a gun that was only about his 3rd or 4th time shooting a pistol

you can run anything you want but everyone should try running how they carry a few times , maybe with extra mags , not every one carries 2 extra mags and you need that for some of the stages our final stage was a 34 round minimum with no misses


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## Texaspredatorhu (Sep 15, 2015)

Got a chance to put my puppy petters on the XD-E today. The trigger travel in SA is extremely long, dang near as long as a glock trigger pull. To say the least I am not impressed and was told they can't keep them in stock. I left with an AR 15 lower....again.


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## GREENCOUNTYPETE (Jul 25, 2006)

there seems to be a market for them , but it makes me scratch my head why , a striker fired gun with manual safety would have made more sense to me with what you are saying about the trigger


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## Texaspredatorhu (Sep 15, 2015)

I hear ya. They had a model awhile back with a safety on it, don't know if it's still produced or not though. Until they make a kit for that trigger I won't look at it again, it was that bad.


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## GREENCOUNTYPETE (Jul 25, 2006)

the other complaint is apparently it doesn't fit in any of the holsters made for the XD/XDS so you have to get a new holster and holster availability is still some what limited


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