# electric fence problems..help?



## lonelyfarmgirl (Feb 6, 2005)

what do you do when the cows no longer respect the electric?

this year (first time ever) our crop of calves just decided that the electric fence wires were no more than a bother and started walking right through them. we have been dealing with this all summer.
now we have 700 pound calves that walk right through the fence. on the tail of that, we suddenly have 2 bulls, and 2 steers that decided one day to start jumping over the fence. 
now we have a big problem, and it seems we are powerless to stop it, and we dont know how to fix it.

can anyone offer suggestions of a solution?


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## Callieslamb (Feb 27, 2007)

I'd look for a short. Do a voltage test and see if the shock is as strong as it needs to be. Though if there are females on the other side of the fence, it probably won't keep them in. If my cows get out, I know the fence isn't working for some reason.


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## G3farms (Dec 18, 2009)

Describe your fence layout. Most times one or two wires will hold cattle in if they have feed and water. A bull will go through a fence to get to an open cow and vise versa, can not stop that easily. 

Almost sounds like your fence charger is not working or not a good ground.

If it has not rained lately then the ground itself will not have enough moisture in it to make the complete circuit. One way to get around this is to run an extra wire (does not have to be on insulators) for a ground wire. Put them close enough together that the cows will get into both wires , thus completing the circuit and shocking them. 

It the electric wire hits them in front of the ears they will back up, if it hits them behind the ears they will move forward. 

Do you have a fence tester, they are relatively inexpensive, less than $20. Check the fence in several different places to make sure you do not have a shorted out section.

http://cgi.ebay.com/Multi-Light-Ele...=AU_Fencing&hash=item4aa31c9b27#ht_2282wt_905
This is the tester I use, the probe sticks into the ground and there is a wire hook that goes onto the electric wire.


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## genebo (Sep 12, 2004)

There is a more expensive fence tester called a fence compass. It tells the voltage and indicates the direction to a short. That's why it's called a compass.

If the compass shows that the short is toward your left, you walk down that direction and test again. Kepp on until you've passed the short and it will show the direction back the way you came. You can narrow it down quite well.

I found out that I had a buried wire grounding out using a compass. It was stealing all the power from the fence farther along.

It's not good if you have weeds touching all along the fence. Weeds steal just a tiny amount of your power for each weed. But thousands of weeds can make a fence practically useless. 

Make sure your fence charger is powerful enough to do the job. Some are rated as being good for so many miles of fence. That's a single strand that long. If you have 5 strands of fence wire on a fence a mile long, you have 5 miles of fence, not 1 mile of fence.

Genebo
Paradise Farm


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## lonelyfarmgirl (Feb 6, 2005)

we've been down this road already. Its not the problem. Our fencer is a 30 mile fencer, and instead of a blip, it has numbers. When the display says 14, its strong enough to make a 2000 lb. monster jump back. so we know instantly if there is a short, because the number drops. when the weather is terrible, is drops below 10. when the numbers go down, we look for shorts. 
there are also no animals seperate from each other. the entire herd is together now. 

Describe layout: property is a rectangle. buildings in the southwest corner. woods at the northcenter line fence. there is a lane running from the buildings to the woods, center of the property, with strip pastures on each side. there is also a lane that runs the length of the west line fence.
The night lot is right behind the buildings. in the morning, they are turned into the lane to walk to which ever pasture we leave open. we run them home at night and lock them in. it is everyday routine, doesn't change.

except now, babies scatter in every direction (some babies are 700#). most of the herd goes where they are supposed to and the problem ones simply jump or walk through whichever fence they feel like.

yellow string wire, double high tensile steel, doesnt matter. nothing stops the young ones, and the 2 bulls and 2 steers jump over.


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## sde219 (May 19, 2010)

How high is the line they are jumping? Are they only jumping/climbing or are they walking straight through it?

What's on the other side of the fence?

How many lines? How taut are the lines?


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## G3farms (Dec 18, 2009)

What I meant about the lay out is how the fence is built...........five strands of barb wire with one strand of electric knee high, something like that.

Sounds like you need to put up another electric wire on top of the post to keep them from jumping over. 

I still say get a tester and check the fence line in different places, you just might be surprised what you find.

A 30 mile charger should give a good blue spark even at the end of the line.


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## sde219 (May 19, 2010)

I also have one of those nifty chargers with the built in meter - Parmak I'm assuming. Definitely helps me know when there's a short, excessive weeds, or a gate chain is hitting a line. However, I just went outside to do a test so I didn't make myself look dumb. The meter does not test the quality of the ground. In fact, by disconnecting 2 of the grounding rods and the ground line that runs the perimeter, the meter actually went from 18.2 to 18.5. So I wouldn't assume the shock from your fencer is sufficient on the fencer reading alone as it doesn't seem to include the quality of the ground provided.

I had a similar problem as once some of my flock became regular escapees even an improved fence and fencer didn't solve the problem. They knew the payoff for escaping - unfettered access to fresh pasture and fruit trees was worth the shock. I ended making the lines tighter, adding the grounding line others have suggested, and adding grounding rods at all of my pastures corners. I would think a similar solution - running ground and hot lines at or near the top, improved grounding, and probably a higher top line might solve your dilemma.


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## lonelyfarmgirl (Feb 6, 2005)

the bulls jump over. everyone else goes through. The top wire is chest high on a grown animal. When the bulls jump, if the wire gets caught on a rear leg, they just shake it off. That would be the stretchy yellow wire. The babies go through or under, tearing out rod posts and ripping insulators off the Tposts.

The steel is as tight as anyone could get it. the yellow wire, of course is stretchy. tight, but still gives. We are planning on beginning in the spring switching to all high-tensile steel. But that takes time and money, of course.

I have watched the larger babies put their head down to go under, and let the wire roll over their backs, and I can stand there and listen to it sparking off their back and they dont even seem to notice.

All the bull calves still need castrated, and I think that might be part of the problem, but all the heifers do it too, and so do the year old steers. We had a cow once that tended towards going under the fence. we ringed her nose and put a chain on it that barely drug the ground, so when she tried to go under, she stepped on the chain. She doesnt any more, but the chain has since fallen off. Guess we might have to do that to all the calves, but I really dont want to go there.

Pretty soon our entire herd will look like something out of a freak show with rings and chains all around. Sigh...

oh, forgot to add..we are 2 wire and there is nothing on the other side, except pasture with grass too short because the babies have long ago eaten it all down to nothing. I should also note, that for a very long time, we were only single wire, and had relatively no problems.

DH is hesitant to add a third wire (although might be neccessary at this point) because that gives so many more places for the fence to short, and he says the most wires you have, the less power is in the far ones, thus defeating the purpose of putting them there at all.


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## G3farms (Dec 18, 2009)

With the top wire at only chest high to the cows it doesn't take much for them to jump over. 
I still say you have a ground issue and they are not getting shocked or at least not very hard.
They have learned a trick and it will take some doing to relearn them now.


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## lonelyfarmgirl (Feb 6, 2005)

I talked to someone from here on the phone today, and we determined it may very well be a ground issue. We are going to see if we can remedy that problem very soon.

Also, as far as the chest high wire and the jumping goes. Today, again, the 2 bulls got out, again, so I ran them home and shut them in the night lot. DH fed them in the loading chute and we locked them in, with the intention of letting them out when the herd came home for the night. 
One of them jumped the bars and left to go back with the herd once he got sick of standing there. the top bar is 5 feet high.


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## Cheribelle (Jul 23, 2007)

Amazing how high they can jump, huh?


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## tinknal (May 21, 2004)

I'm sure you don't want to hear this, and it is not the short term solution you need right now, but a properly built 5 strand barbed wire fence will eliminate this problem.


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## G3farms (Dec 18, 2009)

lonelyfarmgirl........I just looked at your web site (very nice by the way) and it shows your fence and some of the cattle. Looks like your top strand is only knee high with another strand below that. Looks like you will need just a little more fence than that, just saying.

As far as jumping, I had a cow that cleared a 6 foot fence and a bull went next, his hind legs hit the top strands of wire and brought him down. Needless to say they both took a one way trip to town. I had to take coral panels and bolt them together (one on top of the other) to finally get them cornered and into the trailer, at the sale barn they had everybody jumping the coral panels, kind of funny at the time.

You have some very good looking shaggy red cows, I think they nice to look at.


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## Curtis B (Aug 15, 2008)

I have been having the same problems, and haven't tried any solutions yet, but here is one I was told for the jumping, take it for what it is worth. Take a chain, tie it around the "jumpers" neck, and tie the other end to an old tire so it has to be drug around, and will catch on the fence when they go over. Again, I haven't tried it, and I would be concerned about the shock when they are stuck.


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## bruce2288 (Jul 10, 2009)

I don't know what your weather is like. once in a dry spell I had cows walking overe an electric fence, the ground (soil) was so dry they were not grounding. I assumed fencer not working, changed fencer,still out. I finally touched fence, nothing, thought it was the sole of my boots preventing my ground, got on knees touched fence nothing. Grabbed fence and t-post got zapped. I can assure you if your cows are not respecting your fence the charge in the wire is not adequate or the ground circuit is the problem reguardless what the meter says. Touch the fence and see what you get, it won't kill you. Fence jumpers need to be sold or stopped before your entire herd learns this behavior. In my experience chronic jumpers will never change. Good luck


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## agmantoo (May 23, 2003)

Two things are necessary to retrain the jumper. First you must get the energizer delivering not less than 3500 volts. Yesterday I checked my fence, I had 9100 volts for example. Next is retraining the jumper. The jumper needs to be confined within an area it cannot escape from. The electric fence is in no way a physical containment structure. It is a psychological containment method. The animal must respect the fence by getting the intensity of the shock impregnated on its brain. Frequent escape remove all respect. Once the animal is confined and electrical fence needs to be erected INSIDE the physical barrier. Put feed to where the animal has access within the interior of the electrical fence and some feed slightly out of reach on the outside of the electrical fence. With the 3500 plus volts on the electrical training fence leave the animal confined for 21 days or more. When the animal is reintroduced to the main fence it will respect it. Never let it develop the habit of testing the fence with its muzzle and finding the charger off or the voltage low. Animals can sense whether the fence is working by the static they feel on the nose hair. This is somewhat like on old TVs when the hair on ones hand starts to stand up as the backside of the hand is near the picture tube.


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## lonelyfarmgirl (Feb 6, 2005)

Thanks G3.

5 strand barbed wire! No way. No way, Not happnin.
Barbed wire is dangerous, painful, tough to handle, deal with, repair, and will not stop hairy beasts. Feels good to scratch on!
But thanks for the suggestion.

The wires in the picture are deceiving, as the ground slops down in alot of places. The top wire is chest high to most of the animals.

as far as the bull who jumped the five foot gate, we shut him in this wood hut we have. It is a 3 sided, maybe 12 X 12 with a gate on the front that is the size of the whole side. we put him in there, and he put his nose under the corner and lifted the building off the blocks! well, I electrified the gate. He didn't like that, but he stopped acting stupid. I am going to let him stew in there for about a week. By then the herd will be moved to closer quarters, and maybe he will behave.


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## genebo (Sep 12, 2004)

All your fence chargers tell you how to ground the charger. Do it exactly like they say. Three 8' copper plated rods, driven all the way in. Space them 10' apart in a straight line and connect your charger to one of the end ones.

I dig a trench 20' long, about 4" deep, starting at the charger. I drive the ground wires below the surface then connect them with 12 ga. copper wire. Use the copper coated clamps that come with the copper ground rods. Connect the charger with the same copper wire.

Walk your fence with an eye on the ground. Places where pine needles, leaves or dead grass pile up will insulate the cattle's feet, weakening the shock. Bare dirt is best on your side of the fence.

My favorite fence is the one that we put up between my neighbor's pasture and mine, where the cattle can come nose-to-nose. It's 48" field fencing with a single strand of electric at nose height, mounted on 6" long insulators. None of my neighbor's cattle have ever crossed that fence.

In my opinion, the soft wires are not effective. I've touched my fence along the wire, and screamed like a girl. I've touched it along the soft wires and barely flinched.

Genebo
Paradise Farm


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## lonelyfarmgirl (Feb 6, 2005)

I agree, the poly wires are junk. The night lot and most of the pastures on the west side are double steel. those are the first ones we ever did and that was all there was for a long time. that was when we only had a dozen animals. The pastures on the east side are all poly wire. and so are the ones in the back. we just put those up last year. they werent meant to be permanent.

Now that I think about it, we put those up to try the rotational grazing thing all the way around, and decided then, if it worked, we would spend the money for double steel. We wanted to try before investing. Now I remember. Well, I guess it worked, time to cough up the dough! Ha!

The grounding issue we will be taking care of very soon. I hope, before it snows. Guess we better hurry!


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## oneokie (Aug 14, 2009)

lonelyfarmgirl said:


> The pastures on the east side are all poly wire. and so are the ones in the back.


Poly wire will not carry enough voltage to effectively energize much more than 1320 feet of fence. BTDT


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## G3farms (Dec 18, 2009)

lonelyfarmgirl said:


> they werent meant to be permanent.


Sounds like the cows figured that out also :shocked:

I have never used the poly wire myself but the wire that is wound in it is very small and half way shielded from the animals as it is twisted around, not like just a bare wire.

Good luck with it.


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## lonelyfarmgirl (Feb 6, 2005)

where do you get your 1320 feet of fence figure?


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## agmantoo (May 23, 2003)

I use lots of polywire for temporary partition fencing. The diameter and material plus the length of run of the conductor determines the resistance. Yes, the polywire has very fine wires for flexibility and high resistance to conduction of electricity. It works very well for the application it was designed. To offset the inherent characteristics of having to use the fine wires in order to have a temporary means of having a conductor that can be spooled and still have an adequate length of the run the voltage output of the energizer is critical. The polywire comes wound on 1320 spools. To get this much wire up to the voltage I mentioned above (3500 volts) a person needs a high output low impedence energizer.


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## Hogleg (Oct 6, 2007)

I find that I have to distribute the voltage around the perimeter with high tensile wire but also use polywire so that my horses can see the fence reliably in dim light. Using at least one reliable metal wire keeps the voltage consistent throughout. I transitioned from light guage wire, t posts and polywire to HT using polywire this spring. My reliability has gone up and maintenance is much less, but not zero. 

Other thing that caused the largest improvement was going to a Parmak SE-4 charger. My Parmak Magnum-12 did not have the extra power to keep the voltage up with a short. For instance, my meter this morning showed 6.2 and usually shows 12-14. I knew something was not right. I took my meter and the fence closest to the meter showed 5.2K volts. As I walked the perimeter, it started going down. At one point, it was at 1.2. I knew I was close. I found a jumper wire that had shorted out on a t-post. Fixed it and all was well. So, the charger had enough juice to keep most of the fence at a respectable voltage even with a short on the far side of the pasture. 

BTW, 3 solid, deep ground rods...


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