# Making and storing hay without a tractor



## airwolftruker (Jul 15, 2011)

Hello all, 
i have a dilema, I dont really understand hay or how to choose good quality hay.
so i would like to try growing and harvesting my own hay, if it's possible.
i have nubian goats and a they like really leafy hay, of the type most people wouldn't feed to a horse or cattle, like johnson grass, vetch, crab grass and timothy.
i know goats aren't really grass eaters unless theres nothing else to eat.
they like bermuda green in the field but wont eat bermuda hay.
so i would like some sound advice on what to grow, how to grow it, here in Arkansas.
also i only have a four-wheeler and a pick-up.
can i bush hogg my grass then wind row it to dry?
Also ive only got 4 acres to work with.
i have noticed that i can buy most of all the haying implements i need for an atv, all except a bailer. And ive asked around and local farmers wont bring there equipment over for such a small job.
how do i put the hay up?
Also if someone could recommend a book that would great.
im sorry, i have a lot of questions ........
thank you, Greg


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## Chucknbob (Nov 21, 2012)

You can store loose hay, but it takes up a lot more space than a bale. If you have the space then don't worry about it.


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## uncle Will in In. (May 11, 2002)

Making your own hay is not nessesarly going to be hay that is worth anything but bedding. Does it rain where you live?? If you mow the hay, and it don't get dry before it rains, you can forget about having "GOOD" hay. If the hay is too mature when you cut it, you get poor hay unless it rains first. Then you get bedding. Without a baler you will take endless hours of hard labor putting the hay under cover. You already know how buying hay works out, so LOTS OF LUCK.


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## haypoint (Oct 4, 2006)

In order to be able to make your own hay, you need to know what makes good hay, what it looks like standing in the field, understand the best time to cut it, both the crop&#8217;s maturity level and the weather. You&#8217;ll need to know when it has laid out in the sun long enough (cured). You need to know when to turn it over to finish drying. You need to know when it is safe to put in the barn. Damp hay can combust and burn a barn down. 
A brush hog won&#8217;t do a good job of cutting hay, it tears it up and tosses it around too much. If you are able to brush hog, I&#8217;ll assume your 4 wheeler has a PTO? Maybe you could find a sickle bar mower and pull it with your 4 wheeler? They do make walk behind sickle bar mowers, too. Then you&#8217;ll need to use a pitch fork to turn it over once the top is dry. Then pitch it onto a trailer. Four acres might produce 8,000 pounds of hay. That is about 25 pickup truck loads.
To get a hay crop growing will require plowing, disking, fertilizing, spreading seed and waiting a year. You could try throwing around the seeds among the weeds and Bermuda grass. You need a soil test to see what lime or fertilizer you need. 
Goats do need good hay. It is a myth that they do well on weeds and brush. Seems you would plant alfalfa, and a couple varieties of clover. 
Perhaps it would be better (easier, cheaper) to learn about what good hay looks like and buy it. That 4 acres might make better pasture.


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## Jennifer L. (May 10, 2002)

You could cut with the bush hog but you wouldn't have to wind row it to dry, only to make it easier to pick up off the field. It's not an ideal way to do it, but if you are only after a small amount of hay, it would work.

How much hay do you need? How much are you feeding now? If you are only feeding a couple of dozen small squares or several large round bales, then you could bring that much in without too much bother and store it loose. As Chucknbob said, you do need some room to store it. Storing loose hay outside is most likely not going to work well.

If you actually need 4 acres of hay, that's a lot of work and I'd try and pay someone to do it for you. I have a 4 acre field and it's just not a field I look forward to doing every year. All for about 16 round bales. For a small amount, you certainly might try doing it by hand.

Good luck. It would be a lot of work but also a lot of exercise for you, and very satisfying.


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## Alice In TX/MO (May 10, 2002)

Long article about how to cut hay by hand:
http://www.fao.org/docrep/005/X7660E/x7660e06.htm

Shorter article:
http://thecontraryfarmer.wordpress.com/2009/09/08/an-offbeat-way-to-make-good-hay/

Discussion of hay making without machines:
http://www.permies.com/t/14579/homestead/Hay-making-machines


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## Johnny Dolittle (Nov 25, 2007)

Here are a few ideas ... depending on how handy you are at making things. Some of these can be cut down in size to match the ATV

You can get a Swisher pull behind brush hog with its own power unit (engine)

You do not need to windrow. If you have a front blade on the atv you could make a miniature buck rake to clamp onto the blade. Buck rakes were first used with horses and later on tractors.

Here is an old movie demonstrating a buck rake

http://archive.org/details/buckrake


Here is a hand powered baler

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9G3JDdKgcrE[/ame]

Here is making a hay stack

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zTUH2wIsPZw[/ame]

Dump rake

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WQmn6KuQxTI[/ame]


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## DarleneJ (Jan 29, 2012)

Here is something called a hay sweep. It will pick up the loose hay when it's dried, but I would either store it in a barn or make sure it's good and covered with tarps so it doesn't mold. There are two videos. This is part 1.

I imagine you could design something on a smaller scale for an atv. We only have a few acres worth haying, so a baler is more work than what it's worth. It is my understanding that in the old days they would hay sweep and then hand bale (like the video posted earlier) inside the barn in the winter when they had time to ship/sell them later in the winter. Loose hay will take up more room. Our fields were hayed previously to us owning it. I'll have to watch to see how bad the weeds are and figure out what needs to be done in the next year. Good luck.

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tCrFrzE8qDU[/ame]


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## Johnny Dolittle (Nov 25, 2007)

DarleneJ

Your hay sweep is the same tool as a buck rake I refer to in the post above yours.

.... just sayin


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## unregistered168043 (Sep 9, 2011)

Good articles from Alice. And good vids from johnny and Darlene. You can make your own hay about a million ways and find a million people to tell you its wrong. Its NOT rocket science by any means. A few main points to know;

1. Cut the grass before most of the seed heads emerge

2. Cut when you expect hot dry weather for the next few days

3. be mindful that too wet hay can cause combustion

4. Hay is just grass, don't over complicate it. ( no matter what anyone tells you )

I've never heard of cutting hay with a brush mower, but somewhere, someone is doing it successfully I'm sure. My only concern with doing that would be too much moisture from grinding it up but might just take longer to field dry.


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## FarmboyBill (Aug 19, 2005)

As for a book Look up Linn Millers Haying With Horses. It covers the whole aspect of haying, and that with oNLY loose hay. How to store it inside AND outside.

Find yourself an old horse mower and rig it to your 4 wheeler, IF it will pull it. IF your grass is really leafy and not stemy, You may need a body on the mower which would make it really tough for it to putt it. Get yourself a horse dump rake and rig it the same way. Look up the U Tube, Stacking hay with oxen to see how to make/build a stack outside.

REMEMBER, That the rake and mower need to be rigged so that, with a 2 X 4 fixed to the tonge that is 12ft long, The 2 X 4 is 30in thereabouts high at the end. That will mean you will have to build a drop hitch, maybe around 2ft down below the end of the stub tongue for the low hitch on a 4 wheeler. The drop hitches for my tractors is around a foot.
IF you do not do this for the mower the oil will not run all over the gear case as it should. IF you dont do this for the rake, the teeth may not go down all the way to the ground.


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## Callieslamb (Feb 27, 2007)

We're one of the ones that use a brush hog to mow our hay. DH cut a piece off the side of the deck (it's replaceable when he wants to use it as a brush hog again). It lays the hay out nice but not as flat as the bar mower would. He turns it over 2x with the rake. The cut puts the grass in shorter pieces than a bar mower does, but it still bales up nicely and the flakes hold together when I feed them. We probably get a bit more loss of grass than with the regular mowers. The cows and sheep haven't minded at all that it's been mowed with a brush hog. 

The amount of work to make loose hay detered us greatly. It's hard enough to haul the bales into the barn - let alone pitchfork it into stacks. It can be done, but we are too old to want to do it. We only hay 3-4 acres and had the same trouble getting someone to come do it for us. All the equipment lined up, unused most of the year, is taking up some valuable grazing space which is why we decided against yet one more piece to store and went with the dual purpose (now) brush hog.


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## Molly Mckee (Jul 8, 2006)

If you don't know anything about hay, you might ask a neighbor that makes good hay if you can help and learn from him. If you don't need much hay he might trade you for the labor.

Making good quality hay is a art as well as science. People will tell you you just do A,B, C but as Haypoint says its more than that.There is no point in doing all the work involved in getting four acres of hay in the barn and have it be worthless as feed or even worse, burn down the barn. I would use the four acres for pasture. If it is not open it may be too small to turn equipment in, or it may not be worth making hay without planting good grass or alfalfa.


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## motdaugrnds (Jul 3, 2002)

I've been cutting and storing my own hay from about 4 acres for years; and I feed it to large Nubian goats.

You first have to start with understanding your soil and what it needs, i.e. agricultural lime, fertilizer, etc. You do this by simply taking a few samples off each of your 4 acres to the local agricultural department and paying a small fee for them to test it. (Call first because they will probably give you special small boxes to place your soil samples in. Then to get the soil sample, you need to dig about 6-8 inches into the soil and take samples from each of the four sides of that hole. Do this 3-4 times in each acre, taking the samples from different locations of each acre.) Then you need to add whatever the ag lab suggests.

Next you need to know what type of seed to plant. Get the type that will produce what will be healthy for your goats. "Endophyte free" grass is what you want to grow; so simply do some research and find some. 

Preparation of the acreage is a must with plowing/disking or whatever you personally need to do to get a clean piece of ground on which to sow your seed. After your seed is sown, mash it into the soil. (David and I did this by simply dragging a 4x4 across the seed beds.) Then to protect what seed may still be showing from the birds, simply throw some straw loosely over it. Now you need to wait, wait, wait for it to grow.

While it is growing, learn when to cut it to get it at its peak of nutrition. This is often in the boot stage, i.e. right before it seeds. There is a "milk stage" just before this which is also good.

When it is ready to harvest, look at your weather to make sure you will have a few days of "dry" weather. Then cut it! (We use a DR Field & Brush Mower to cut ours and we do so in such a manner so as to let several rows of cut grass fall on each other. This will depend on your day's temperature and how thick your blades of grass are because you want it to dry well within about 24 hours. If you need to turn it over to get it completely dry, cutting it in this manner makes it easier.)

When you determine it is dry (still green; not burned), you can use a walk-behind bailer (I saw one on the internet once but couldn't afford it.) or you can use "leaf rakes", which is what we have been using. Start at one end of the row and simply "roll" the dry hay over and over onto itself until it is too large to handle like that; then start another row. [If you can get that "hand-powered bailer" Johnny showed us in this thread do it. Wish I had one and I may try making one.] If you don't have a bailer, you can do what we've done. I purchased mildew resistant "sheets" (about 6'x6x) and put the dried hay on those sheets, then tied the ends together and put them on a hand-pulled wagon or in the bed of our pickup, whichever is most convenient in that particular pasture. Haul it off to your loft. Keep the hay in an area where it will not be rained on; and keep a pitchfork with it for ease in serving to your animals. 

Loose hay does take up more space than bailed hay; but if you have the space and no tools to bail with, it works well.


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## airwolftruker (Jul 15, 2011)

Jennifer L. said:


> You could cut with the bush hog but you wouldn't have to wind row it to dry, only to make it easier to pick up off the field. It's not an ideal way to do it, but if you are only after a small amount of hay, it would work.
> 
> How much hay do you need? How much are you feeding now? If you are only feeding a couple of dozen small squares or several large round bales, then you could bring that much in without too much bother and store it loose. As Chucknbob said, you do need some room to store it. Storing loose hay outside is most likely not going to work well.
> 
> ...


Thx alot, i use about 5 4Ã5 ROUND bales per year. I have talked to several hay guys in my area and was told it would cost me more to transport his equipment than it was worth.
but on the other hand, i believe these wise men might mentor me in growing and timing the hay....thx alot


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## airwolftruker (Jul 15, 2011)

Molly Mckee said:


> If you don't know anything about hay, you might ask a neighbor that makes good hay if you can help and learn from him. If you don't need much hay he might trade you for the labor.
> 
> Making good quality hay is a art as well as science. People will tell you you just do A,B, C but as Haypoint says its more than that.There is no point in doing all the work involved in getting four acres of hay in the barn and have it be worthless as feed or even worse, burn down the barn. I would use the four acres for pasture. If it is not open it may be too small to turn equipment in, or it may not be worth making hay without planting good grass or alfalfa.


Thx, i have started the process of getting my pasture ready to plant. I took my soil sample in monday. I was advised to put lime on it so i put 150 lbs on it yesterday(pelletized) ive bought my seed and waiting for the ice to melt.
and for the extension office ......thx


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## airwolftruker (Jul 15, 2011)

motdaugrnds said:


> I've been cutting and storing my own hay from about 4 acres for years; and I feed it to large Nubian goats.
> 
> You first have to start with understanding your soil and what it needs, i.e. agricultural lime, fertilizer, etc. You do this by simply taking a few samples off each of your 4 acres to the local agricultural department and paying a small fee for them to test it. (Call first because they will probably give you special small boxes to place your soil samples in. Then to get the soil sample, you need to dig about 6-8 inches into the soil and take samples from each of the four sides of that hole. Do this 3-4 times in each acre, taking the samples from different locations of each acre.) Then you need to add whatever the ag lab suggests.
> 
> ...


Thats great advice, thankyou.
One of my seed dilemma is grass thats good for goats. My goats love the leafy johnson grass and vetch. What kind of grasses to you grow for hay?


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## unregistered168043 (Sep 9, 2011)

Callieslamb said:


> We're one of the ones that use a brush hog to mow our hay. DH cut a piece off the side of the deck (it's replaceable when he wants to use it as a brush hog again)..



That is really interesting, he just cut a piece off? How big? How does he attach it back on when he wants to brush hog? Any chance of seeing a pic?


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## Johnny Dolittle (Nov 25, 2007)

Darntootin said:


> That is really interesting, he just cut a piece off? How big? How does he attach it back on when he wants to brush hog? Any chance of seeing a pic?


Actually some of the older model brush hogs had a removable bolt-on side piece.

I think also you could convert a garden tractor mowing deck .... some models were rear discharge and did not funnel the clippings but just clipped and flung back.... if you took a deck like that and cut off the front leading edge that folds down I think it would mow hay ..... and be similar to the Swisher I mentioned.


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## Johnny Dolittle (Nov 25, 2007)

Steel hand baling press.... makes a bale in about 90 seconds. $325 plus shipping

http://barnesweldingshop.com/Balers.php


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## dkhern (Nov 30, 2012)

check locally there should be someone who specializes in bushhoging small tracts of land. check w/feed store or coop. if a neighbor does hay you might be able to get hin to hay when in the area. dont know what soil analysis said but 150# isnt very much for 4 a here it isnt unusual to need ton per. lots of diff in hills vs river valley. pull behind implements have gone up in price over the years due to yard deco. you can pull some heavy equip. w/atv.

like said it inst rocket sicience you can do it just takes works. good luck


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## Old Vet (Oct 15, 2006)

One of the ways to make good hay is to dry it thoroughly. If you want leafy hay that is hard to do. The stems must be dry and some times the only way to do this is to crimp it to release the moisture. You can do Johnson grass by not crimping it but you must have enough time for it to dry. The leaves will dry in no time but the stem takes another 2 or 3 days. To be sure it is dry you may need to take a sample of it and break it in your hands. Dry will break readily but wet hay will be flexible. Get the stems to tell if it is dry. If you look at the weather they will tell you when it is supposed to be dry you can rule out 10 % chance of rain but anything higher may cause problems. Hay in Arkansas needs to dry at least 3 or 4 days to be dry.


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## Johnny Dolittle (Nov 25, 2007)

This is interesting .... could a log splitter be adapted to bale hay also ....

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OiJ5QlA8F2E[/ame]


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## FarmboyBill (Aug 19, 2005)

I didnt see him takeing the time to reset the steel spears? and retieing the twine onto them. Other than that, and it made too small a bale, I was impressed. Course, they was hustling, and that speed wpouldnt have lasted 2 doz bales, But, with say 2 or 3 guys in rotation, one loading, one tying, and one hauling off the bale, IN ROTATION, They might be able to keep it up 4 times longer.


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## bsmit24 (Dec 31, 2012)

DarleneJ said:


> Here is something called a hay sweep. It will pick up the loose hay when it's dried, but I would either store it in a barn or make sure it's good and covered with tarps so it doesn't mold. There are two videos. This is part 1.
> 
> I imagine you could design something on a smaller scale for an atv. We only have a few acres worth haying, so a baler is more work than what it's worth. It is my understanding that in the old days they would hay sweep and then hand bale (like the video posted earlier) inside the barn in the winter when they had time to ship/sell them later in the winter. Loose hay will take up more room. Our fields were hayed previously to us owning it. I'll have to watch to see how bad the weeds are and figure out what needs to be done in the next year. Good luck.


An older horse drawn version of this is the tumbling tommy which could easily be built and pulled behind your atv.

http://www.fellpony.f9.co.uk/country/haytime/tumb-tom.htm


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## FarmboyBill (Aug 19, 2005)

I think there might be some mileage in finding an old junk bailer that dosent tie anymore, and tearing out the knotter mech and needles. Cut out a notch at the top for the divider board. Have 3 of them made, and have someone sober and responsible dropping them in the chamber. 
When the bale chamber got full, and a signal of that was givin, the tractor would stop and the plunger would too. Then someone could drop in the divider board in. When seated he would give a signal and the tractor operator could engage the engine just to shove the plunger tightly against board where the twine would be inserted and tied off. Then, the guy on the flywheel side, after disengageing the pto again could back the plunger full back, get reseated, and the tractor op put it in gear and go on.

Slow, YES, But id think way faster than what ive seen so far, AND less work. The tiers would sit, as much as possible and comfortable and still be able to do there tying. I did it once. By next season guy had sold that bailer and bought a automatic. tie.


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## Johnny Dolittle (Nov 25, 2007)

bsmit24 said:


> An older horse drawn version of this is the tumbling tommy which could easily be built and pulled behind your atv.
> 
> http://www.fellpony.f9.co.uk/country/haytime/tumb-tom.htm


Thanks ... never knew of that tool

They have a demo on the site showing how it works !


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## COWS (Dec 23, 2012)

To store loose hay outside: Put a few tree limbs, old lumber, etc on the ground in 10-12 foot circle. Have a pole with the top end sharpened placed in the ground in the center of the circle. Haul loose hay to the area. Fork hay onto the limbs, walking around over it as you go to pack it down. Pack down firmly, doing a better job than the wooden hay press shown. Build the stack up, tapering it as you go up, objective being to shed water. At the top of the stack take a final fork full of hay and cap the stack by forcing the hay over the sharp end of the pole. (local expression to describe something finalized was"that caps the stack!")

Height of the stack depends on the pole avaliable and the amount of hay. It does not have to be a decay resistant pole, it only has to last one year, but using a decay resistant pole and reusing it is fine. Height was about 12 feet as I recall.

A properly made stack will shed water just fine, much better than a round bale. Feeding the hay obviously starts from the top. To keep water from getting down around the pole after feeding starts, and before too if desired, a piece of canvas is laid 
on the top and wrapped around the pole with suitable provision for keeping the wind from blowing it away.

It will take some practice to determing the size of the stack to start off with.

In areas of the Southeast where ther are long leaf pines, people, generally south of the border immigrants, will use those wooden hay presses to make bales of pine needles to sell for landscaping. Sometimes they go illegally onto national or state forest lands to get the needles. I'm not impressed with the size of the bales which sell for $4-5.

The advice to exchange labor with your neighbors for hay bales is excellent. Or you could get a part time job flipping burgers and buy all the hay you needed. Less time spent that way but less satisfaction and healthy excercise.

COWS


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## FarmboyBill (Aug 19, 2005)

The last time I visited my dad, he said he had seen one woek as a kid. 1919, 2008


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## arnie (Apr 26, 2012)

as a very young teen we still put up hay with horses NO.9 mowing machine,dump rake.made wind rows with the rake them shocks with a pitch fork 'pulled the shocks to the stack with a chain then stacked with pitch forks .very long hot days . we put a milk cow and team of work horses through the winter . with a sickle bar mower 'and rake cutting and then windrowing you could fork up the hay to store in a barn or hay stack .


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## FarmboyBill (Aug 19, 2005)

I magine that dump rake could do a much better job with someone on the seat locking down the teeth with the foot pedel.


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## Maura (Jun 6, 2004)

I'd be skeptical about feeding goats alfalfa. It is too rich. 

Sheep also prefer forbes, but I can't get leaf hay. They always ate grassy hay and got fat on it. I did not use the "best" hay that you would give dairy cows, just very grassy.

You need to really study YOUR hay field once it starts growing. Most farmers make the first cutting after it gets leggy. Sheep (and I suppose goats) reject the stems. Consider cutting your field earlier than your neighbors. Since you aren't using heavy equipment you can probably get into the field earlier.


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## jwal10 (Jun 5, 2010)

I make my hay by hand. I have a small walk behind cycle mower (bad shoulder and hand keeps me from using a scythe) I use a wooden hand rake. When the hay is dry I use a hand cart to carry the hay to the shed. I graze (pasture) the grass late into early May, fertilize it and let it grow until after July 4th. Always rains on the 4th. Then I cut it. The grass is shorter and has a lot more clover doing it this way. I get 2 cuttings. I have 3 goats, rabbits, chickens and pigeons....James


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## FarmboyBill (Aug 19, 2005)

Im amazed that a bad shoulder and hand precludes useing a sythe, BUT you CAN use a hand rake. Course, I dont use either for hay, and only the rake in the garden,


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## FarmboyBill (Aug 19, 2005)

Something I dont understand is, I bought a 48 H Farmall for $400, and a 49 VAC with 3 pt for $75. Why dont you have a tractor?


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## Callieslamb (Feb 27, 2007)

Darntootin said:


> That is really interesting, he just cut a piece off? How big? How does he attach it back on when he wants to brush hog? Any chance of seeing a pic?


 
Well, it seemed to me like he just cut it...but I think he had to use a torch. Yes, he fixed it so he can bolt it back on, but he doesn't do that too often. I'll see if I can get a picture for you tomorrow. The piece is about 18 inches but I'd better just get the picture for you.


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## jwal10 (Jun 5, 2010)

FarmboyBill said:


> Im amazed that a bad shoulder and hand precludes useing a sythe, BUT you CAN use a hand rake. Course, I dont use either for hay, and only the rake in the garden,


I have limited motion in my shoulder and only 2 fingers that work on my left hand. I can use a shovel too, left hand low on the handle and the thigh of my left leg to raise the shovel. I drag the rake with my right hand and can lift the rake with left hand and thigh. I also have a sling for my left arm that wraps around my wrist and hooks on my thumb that cradles things that I can't grasp, into the palm of my hand. It is not pretty and is hard on my back, all hunched over. I have owned a tractor since 1976 but haven't used it myself for 15 years except a few hayrides in the fall....James


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## FarmboyBill (Aug 19, 2005)

Sounds like me, in a way. My ankles are shot. i cant kick a schovel. or walk a block and not sit down somewhere in between


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## DarleneJ (Jan 29, 2012)

Johnny Dolittle said:


> DarleneJ
> 
> Your hay sweep is the same tool as a buck rake I refer to in the post above yours.
> 
> .... just sayin


I only know what I know. Looks like you know what I don't!


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## Bret4207 (May 31, 2008)

airwolftruker said:


> Thx alot, i use about 5 4Ã5 ROUND bales per year. I have talked to several hay guys in my area and was told it would cost me more to transport his equipment than it was worth.
> but on the other hand, i believe these wise men might mentor me in growing and timing the hay....thx alot



If you're only using 5 rounds a YEAR and have 4 acres of land then buy your 5 rounds and pasture your 4 acres. You can put up loose hay and you can sort of cut it with a bush hog if it's real sharp, but you still need to rake it or ted it so it will dry. Mowing grass and leaving it in the swath will not make hay. It just makes a combination of bedding and soggy green grass. You have to work the hay around to get air and sunshine to it or it will mold and can combust if stored tightly. Getting the loose hay to the barn off 4 acres is no big deal, but you really need to rake it- really. And a bush hog will not give you a good mowing job. 

Someone suggested seeing if you could help out with haying for a farmer. Good idea! Try it.


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## coolrunnin (Aug 28, 2010)

Northern Tool sells several rakes for pulling behind ATV's I am sure you can even source locally, I really can't think of a reason not to use a side delivery behind the p/u I have done this several times.

http://www.northerntool.com/shop/tools/product_200518323_200518323

Just a thought but I do 2 of my neighbors fields on my way back from my fields, get out there and make friends with your neighbors...


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## Molly Mckee (Jul 8, 2006)

I suppose you can do hay the hard way, or do it by hand-the really hard way. You might get some feed and might not burn down the barn, but what is you time worth? If you have an off farm job and a family, I would buy the hay or help a neighbor, and not take on the amount of additional work making 4 acres of hay by hand or with jerry rigged machinery. If you are going to enjoy small farming, you need to learn pick your battles. There are only 24 hours in a day.


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## jwal10 (Jun 5, 2010)

It isn't hard work, if you have the time go for it. I can't buy hay this good, anywhere....James


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## FarmboyBill (Aug 19, 2005)

And you get to load boughten hay from some of the dangest places, and dont forget the gas and wear and tear on pk.

You dont know the condition of the hay till your where its at. If its rappy and you dont want it, then you either HAVE to take it, and likely at a higher price than its worth, or go home and look for another source.
Also, it may have Johnson grass seed in it, or multaflora rose seed in it or who knows what.

Ive always rather had my own grass. I can get it when I want. i dont have to drive to somewhere else, wondering whatg im getting, What ital look like, I dont have to worry about the load being, over time wearing on my auto trans. AND I dont spend any more money mowing raking and baling and bringing in my own hay, than I do driveing 50miles maybe, 100 round trip to buy it and bring it home. From the sale I go to, it would be 65 miles or 130 round trip


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## Johnny Dolittle (Nov 25, 2007)

DarleneJ said:


> I only know what I know. Looks like you know what I don't!


I suggested a buck rake aka hay sweep could be made small scale to clamp onto an ATV front blade.... your sweep video shows a sweep clamped onto the bucket of a compact tractor .... also a good idea

The OP poster is looking for low cost methods and the hay sweep is one good one


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## opportunity (Mar 31, 2012)

You could get an old baler that has an engine and pull it with your truck the guy next to me has 7 acres and he bales it with his truck. I cut it with a rotary mower for him he has also raked it with his truck but I'm a little faster with a tractor.


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## FarmboyBill (Aug 19, 2005)

OLD balers that work are Extremely hard to findsince most people quit useing them years ago, good or bad. Finding one with an engine, like my Case 140 W with Cases own 4 cyl air cooled engine, OR ANY engine, ill be nigh near impossible.


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## DarleneJ (Jan 29, 2012)

Johnny Dolittle said:


> I suggested a buck rake aka hay sweep could be made small scale to clamp onto an ATV front blade.... your sweep video shows a sweep clamped onto the bucket of a compact tractor .... also a good idea
> 
> The OP poster is looking for low cost methods and the hay sweep is one good one


My husband was thinking of that but the blade on our ATV doesn't have enough "lift". We just bought a used Yanmar yesterday that has a loader. He's thinking of taking the bucket off and installing a sweep on the loader bars.

The ATV idea could work though, even if not ideally. We're not opposed to the idea of doing what we can with what we have.


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## Johnny Dolittle (Nov 25, 2007)

DarleneJ said:


> My husband was thinking of that but the blade on our ATV doesn't have enough "lift". We just bought a used Yanmar yesterday that has a loader. He's thinking of taking the bucket off and installing a sweep on the loader bars.
> 
> The ATV idea could work though, even if not ideally. We're not opposed to the idea of doing what we can with what we have.


The loader mounted one gives the advantage of loading on a wagon or stacking high.

My idea to covert an ATV would require a leveling lever on the sweeps ..... the leveling lever would add a bit more lift. Back '60-70-80's Sears Suburban garden tractor had a snow blade which was built in a simple unique way. I think the lever lifting mechanism on that plow would be ideal to convert an ATV.

The Tommy Tumbler also looks interesting


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## Molly Mckee (Jul 8, 2006)

jwal10 said:


> It isn't hard work, if you have the time go for it. I can't buy hay this good, anywhere....James


I haven't seen your hay, but you haven't seen mine either. I have seen beautiful hay made with equipment. I don't think I have seen hand made hay, but you have said that you have a farm background so I assume you know what you are doing.

I don't know what you consider hard work, but making hay is hot, dirty, hard, and did I say hot, work. It might make more sense to spend the time on something else when you don't need too much and you have never done it.


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## Lazy J (Jan 2, 2008)

Molly Mckee said:


> I suppose you can do hay the hard way, or do it by hand-the really hard way. You might get some feed and might not burn down the barn, *but what is you time worth?* If you have an off farm job and a family, I would buy the hay or help a neighbor, and not take on the amount of additional work making 4 acres of hay by hand or with jerry rigged machinery. If you are going to enjoy small farming, you need to learn pick your battles. There are only 24 hours in a day.


That has been my question as I have read this entire thread. Making hay of any significance by hand requires one commodity many of us don't have: Extra Time.


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## motdaugrnds (Jul 3, 2002)

When we initially set up our "browsing" pastures, we started with "New Zealand 'Matua' endophyte free" grass; and then planted some "Bi-color 'shrub Lespedeza" all around the pasture and down the side of the buck pen. As the years went by the local grass seeds invaded the front pastures and now I need to rennovate them. 

I just looked to see if I could find the catalog from which I ordered our initial grass seed; but could not find it. I will get another soon I'm sure; but you can google "endophyte-free grass" to find some. (When I had ours tested by the local ag lab, it was said to be the most nutritious ever seen by that lab.  That was the Matua..a prairy grass with rather wide blades that continued to grow, though slowly, during cold weather. It was NOT aggressive; so it had to initially be pampered. (If I hadn't lost all my files when this PC lost its hard drive, I could show you how great it was.) I will be looking for some more as soon as I can afford it.

That hand-bailer ($325 plus shipping) is sure something I would like to have. James, I admire your ability to keep going with your handicaps...I need to stop feeling so bad about having to do all this with just arthritis and poor balance!

LazyJ, some of us have more time than money!


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## FarmboyBill (Aug 19, 2005)

Im wondering IF the weight of the front mounted hay sweep WITH hay load would be hard on front end and steering


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## coolrunnin (Aug 28, 2010)

FarmboyBill said:


> Im wondering IF the weight of the front mounted hay sweep WITH hay load would be hard on front end and steering


I wouldn't expect what loose hay you could pile on a sweep to come close to what a round bale would weigh.


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## FarmboyBill (Aug 19, 2005)

no, BUT with the weight of the sweep, and they hey that would likely equal out to be at least2 bales would end up weighing something.


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## FarmboyBill (Aug 19, 2005)

as to time, I have hayed by myself, with borth horse mower, and tractor mower, steel wheel side rake and my bailer and steel wheel hay rack up until I retired 2yrs ago.

Farming is about NOT haveing time, about makeing decisions that utalize the time you have, About being equipped so as to do as much by yourseldf if need be, with what time is available. Besides putting up 5 to 15 acres of hay to 4 or 5 acres hay and 12 acres corn, and ive worked steady for 44yrs likely outta 45yrs total. with a couple times off from unemployment


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## SFM in KY (May 11, 2002)

arnie said:


> as a very young teen we still put up hay with horses NO.9 mowing machine,dump rake.made wind rows with the rake them shocks with a pitch fork 'pulled the shocks to the stack with a chain then stacked with pitch forks .very long hot days . we put a milk cow and team of work horses through the winter . .


Up until I was in my teens, we were still haying (Montana) with a team and a small 8N Ford tractor. Mowed with a team and No. 9 mower. Team and dump rake. Team and buckrake to get the hay to the overshot stacker. Ford tractor pulled the overshot stacker up when it was loaded. My grandmother drove the buckrake team and my Granddad and Dad were on the stack to 'stack'. We put up enough hay that way to maintain the team, saddle horses and between 80 and 100 head of cows through a Montana winter.

That was 'high desert' country though, dry except for snow so easy to get the hay dry enough to stack, not enough rain to damage it in the stacks and cold enough once it started snowing that melting snow wasn't a problem either. I'm not sure how loose hay would do in wet parts of the country, I do know that everyone here in KY puts their hay in sheds or barns if they want good hay.


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## jwal10 (Jun 5, 2010)

Hay won't keep outside here either, if you cover with a tarp it sweats and molds. I have made loose hay with a horse mower, pushed it to a pile and baled with a hay press. Here is a mule powered hay press....James

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yphvDQyo3VU[/ame]


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## velvetnlace (May 30, 2009)

Greg,

1. Hay should smell good and be green.
2. Hay sold for horses is usually better quality than cow hay.
3. Second cutting hay is often leafier.
4. In my experience telling someone you want hay for goats is a great way to get their worst hay.
5. You want hay that is barn stored, not touching the ground.
6. Try taking a bale home for your goats to sample before buying a truckload.

Best of luck


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## FarmboyBill (Aug 19, 2005)

Watched the vid. I woulda liked to seen what that piece that kept flopping back and then up into the frame was fore, along with where/how the plunger worked.
As for speed, It seemed like it was around 1/2 as fast as my bailer. Not to bad, considering it was likely 50yrs older


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## Laura Workman (May 10, 2002)

Here's a wooden hand baler: http://essmextension.tamu.edu/pinestraw/baling.html

There's a video and instructions for use, and on the last page of the PDF is the plan for building it. I've been wanting to make one for a few years now. Maybe this will be the year!


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## FarmboyBill (Aug 19, 2005)

The one I liked that I saw was useing a plunger from a hydraulic cylinder, like a log splitter.
The thing I see from these is that none of them that ive seen have a set of sides above the chamber to hold excess hay. IF youll look at the oldtime stationery bailers, youll see that almost all of them had these sides for holding excess hay. I suspect that IF the plunger face was made a bit smaller so that, when out of the way, and IF there are sides above the chamber for excess hay that, when the plunger was used it would take down more hay than usual then without the sides built out of the chamber to hold excess hay. It would be quicker and easier to fork hay into the excess sides and the plunger would take down more hay. I think that would make more bales being made in a days time.
AND, IF there were 2 or 3 more bailers used, then, while one that has been filled and the plunger set and is being tied, the pitcher could be filling the other 2. Which one filled first, he could then concentrate on the last one, and/or start again on the first one. Course, it would take a good crew of people. One to pitch, however many to operate each bailer used, and one to haul and stack finished bales.
I think useing just one of these bailers would be a waste of time,


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## haypoint (Oct 4, 2006)

FarmboyBill said:


> Watched the vid. I woulda liked to seen what that piece that kept flopping back and then up into the frame was fore, along with where/how the plunger worked.
> As for speed, It seemed like it was around 1/2 as fast as my bailer. Not to bad, considering it was likely 50yrs older


Bill, looked to me like that piece you saw flopping was the plunger. The mule's rope pulled the plunger into the chamber, then a spring pulled it back out. Once complete circlr for the mule for each flake compressed. Kind of like baling hay in the olden days, but in slow motion.

People don't buy a tractor and a mower and a rake and a baler because they are lazy or have too much money.They do it because they need a reasonable amount of hay in a reasonable amount of time to store in a limited amount of space. With a bit more effort, you might be able to put up hay without a rake, if you had a good mower and good baler. If you had a huge, unused second floor hay mow, you might be able to make hay with a good sickle mower and a lot of hand labor. 

I could probably learn how to drill my own teeth and do a fair job of replacing a filling. But since I don't have that skill and can't afford the equipment, I'll stick with hiring that work done.


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## Lazy J (Jan 2, 2008)

haypoint said:


> Bill, looked to me like that piece you saw flopping was the plunger. The mule's rope pulled the plunger into the chamber, then a spring pulled it back out. Once complete circlr for the mule for each flake compressed. Kind of like baling hay in the olden days, but in slow motion.
> 
> People don't buy a tractor and a mower and a rake and a baler because they are lazy or have too much money.They do it because they need a reasonable amount of hay in a reasonable amount of time to store in a limited amount of space. With a bit more effort, you might be able to put up hay without a rake, if you had a good mower and good baler. If you had a huge, unused second floor hay mow, you might be able to make hay with a good sickle mower and a lot of hand labor.
> 
> I could probably learn how to drill my own teeth and do a fair job of replacing a filling. But since I don't have that skill and can't afford the equipment, I'll stick with hiring that work done.


The one aspect of haymaking that has been completely ignored in this thread is the depency on the weather. With the wide swings in weather we can sometimes have we need the ability to get hay cut, dried, and baled in a timely manner.

Couple this with the importance of Time Allocation and most find it easy to either purchase mechanical haying equipment or hiring the work done by others.

This year we will only make hay on 18 acres, but we have a 12' mower and a 26' rake as well as 6, 20' wagons so we can get the hay cut, raked, and baled quickly. We are overequiped for that acreage.

Jim


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## FarmboyBill (Aug 19, 2005)

Your absolutly right. If you have to wait on a bailer man, OR even wait for somebody to do it all, and hes a custom operator, and its supposed to rain, Well, youll get what you get.
Ime over equipped also, AND I like it that way much more than the reverse.


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## Laura Workman (May 10, 2002)

I was thinking to first put the hay up in stacks built to shed rain, and allow it to cure. Then bale it with a hand-baler. And by the way, people in the south have been using hand balers for pine straw for years and years, so they must be at least somewhat efficient, wouldn't you think? And if you only have a small amount of ground and only need a small amount of hay, why not? If I use, max, 200 bales a year and have only three acres or so, with, by the way, obstructions in the acreage that would preclude much tractor work, why do I need a bunch of equipment that puts out 200 bales an hour? I'm just sayin . . .


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## coolrunnin (Aug 28, 2010)

Laura Jensen said:


> I was thinking to first put the hay up in stacks built to shed rain, and allow it to cure. Then bale it with a hand-baler. And by the way, people in the south have been using hand balers for pine straw for years and years, so they must be at least somewhat efficient, wouldn't you think? And if you only have a small amount of ground and only need a small amount of hay, why not? If I use, max, 200 bales a year and have only three acres or so, with, by the way, obstructions in the acreage that would preclude much tractor work, why do I need a bunch of equipment that puts out 200 bales an hour? I'm just sayin . . .


Curious as to why you are going to handle your hay that many times?
You really don't need alot of equipment but you do need the ability to repair it. I only have 2 tractors I use for haying, 2 mowers, 1 rake and 1 baler I put up just under 90 acres amounting to last year 176 4X5 round bales.


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## Laura Workman (May 10, 2002)

coolrunnin said:


> Curious as to why you are going to handle your hay that many times?
> You really don't need alot of equipment but you do need the ability to repair it. I only have 2 tractors I use for haying, 2 mowers, 1 rake and 1 baler I put up just under 90 acres amounting to last year 176 4X5 round bales.


Well, you have to pile it up somehow to bale it efficiently anyway, and a haystack seems like a good alternative, giving you the flexibility to leave it stacked to cure in case you had to stack it a little less dry than would be optimal. 

And really, for three acres, max, do you really think it makes sense to get a tractor, mower, tedder, and baler? My three acres grow nice grass, but they're broken into four fenced pastures, three of which have a couple of trees in them, and the fourth of which has a septic mound right in the middle. I'm pretty good with an Austrian scythe, and find the work pleasant. It will take a little longer, well maybe a lot longer, than doing it the modern way, but given the difference in financial investment and maintenance time and cost, it seems like maybe not such a bad idea. 

If you had my property, how would you handle it? (We asked a hay guy to hay it last year, and he couldn't get his machinery through our 8-foot gate.)


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## FarmboyBill (Aug 19, 2005)

Other than the weather, Id say, from what you have as hay fields, that your likely doing it the best way possible. Were I you tho, I would still look for an old but in good shape, or repaireable to be in good shape a 3/4/ or 5ft horse mower that could be pulled behind whatever you have. IF you *** out with the sythe, you have the mower to finish up with and just have to mow out the corners. IF the mower breaks youve got a good start on finishing it with the sythe. Id bet you could find such a mower for under /between $25/50. Might take another such amount to fix it figuring that the sickle is still in it or available, and most of the guards are still on it. A tongue can be made out of a tree. I know, I made one when I was young that had a bend in it which helped raise the mower to proper mowing highth.
I imagine in such a cramped area a horse dump rake wouldnt be much faster than hand rakeing, other than the ease it might bring, again other than getting into the corners.

I wonder how, if one were to tie a piece of tin to the backside of a horse mower bar, a wide 30in piece,, and walk beside /behind it while mowing and raking it off when it had filled up into gavels/shiefs if that would be a handy way of gathering it up with a pitchfork, bypassing a rake altogether.

HOW MANY PEOPLE DO YOU COUNT ON TO HELP YOU DO THIS??


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## coolrunnin (Aug 28, 2010)

Laura Jensen said:


> Well, you have to pile it up somehow to bale it efficiently anyway, and a haystack seems like a good alternative, giving you the flexibility to leave it stacked to cure in case you had to stack it a little less dry than would be optimal.
> 
> And really, for three acres, max, do you really think it makes sense to get a tractor, mower, tedder, and baler? My three acres grow nice grass, but they're broken into four fenced pastures, three of which have a couple of trees in them, and the fourth of which has a septic mound right in the middle. I'm pretty good with an Austrian scythe, and find the work pleasant. It will take a little longer, well maybe a lot longer, than doing it the modern way, but given the difference in financial investment and maintenance time and cost, it seems like maybe not such a bad idea.
> 
> If you had my property, how would you handle it? (We asked a hay guy to hay it last year, and he couldn't get his machinery through our 8-foot gate.)


I wasn't questioning your methods just wondering if you had it in a stack why you would go the extra mile to bother baling it, as far as gates you can widen them awfully easy...:nana:

Each of us has to do with what we think is best.


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## fantasymaker (Aug 28, 2005)

If you could get your hands on a GARBAGE Truck you could throw the hay in it and it would compresss it in a nice bale!


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## coolrunnin (Aug 28, 2010)

fantasymaker said:


> If you could get your hands on a GARBAGE Truck you could throw the hay in it and it would compresss it in a nice bale!


That would be a reeeeaaaallly expensive baler I would think.


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## FarmboyBill (Aug 19, 2005)

OR get an old cardboard bailer from some defunct company


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## fantasymaker (Aug 28, 2005)

coolrunnin said:


> That would be a reeeeaaaallly expensive baler I would think.



LOL perhaps, But what a handy one! get the right one and it self loads and unloads.


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## haypoint (Oct 4, 2006)

Buying the equipment, getting and keeping it working, being prepared for repairing the expected breakdowns, having good luck with the weather, finding another field to bale when yours gets rained on, getting a good crop going without too many weeds, have time off when there is a break in the weather, months of worry about the weather....

You know, those guys selling fresh, green, well cured hay, out of their barn for $4.00 a bale are sure giving a great bargain


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## Laura Workman (May 10, 2002)

Oh, lord, if only it were $4.00 per bale! Around here, you're a whole lot closer to $12 to $20 per bale for good hay, depending on how hard you shop. That makes those fields full of grass start looking mighty interesting.


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## Laura Workman (May 10, 2002)

fantasymaker said:


> If you could get your hands on a GARBAGE Truck you could throw the hay in it and it would compresss it in a nice bale!


I actually considered a trash compactor, but getting power to the field would be a bit problematic, and the bales would be TINY.


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## Laura Workman (May 10, 2002)

coolrunnin said:


> I wasn't questioning your methods just wondering if you had it in a stack why you would go the extra mile to bother baling it, as far as gates you can widen them awfully easy...:nana:
> 
> Each of us has to do with what we think is best.


No, I wasn't being snarky. It was a serious question. What do you think would be the best way to handle it?

I'd go the extra mile to bale the hay so I could conveniently get it under cover and so I could feed it without having to slog through a wet field in the winter. Not to mention the loss of hay once the rains start in earnest. I'm near Seattle, and it rains like nobody's business here. Dry storage is a good thing.

As to widening gates, you haven't seen my property. There's a reason the gate is 8 feet wide. And yes, even that could probably be solved with enough money. I'm just not convinced it would be a smart investment.


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## haypoint (Oct 4, 2006)

Last summer, Michigan suffered the worst drought in recent history. Plus, lots of hay ground was put into corn. As a result, there is a major hay shortage. Here's prices from Monday's auction in Clare, MI:

*(200) 1st Cutting Hay (PER BALE) $5.70 - $6.40 *
*(132) Straw (PER BALE) $2.40 &#8211; 2.80*​
*(288) 2**nd & 3rd Cutting Hay (PER BALE) $6.30 - $7.90*
​


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## Bret4207 (May 31, 2008)

Laura Jensen said:


> Well, you have to pile it up somehow to bale it efficiently anyway, and a haystack seems like a good alternative, giving you the flexibility to leave it stacked to cure in case you had to stack it a little less dry than would be optimal.
> 
> And really, for three acres, max, do you really think it makes sense to get a tractor, mower, tedder, and baler? My three acres grow nice grass, but they're broken into four fenced pastures, three of which have a couple of trees in them, and the fourth of which has a septic mound right in the middle. I'm pretty good with an Austrian scythe, and find the work pleasant. It will take a little longer, well maybe a lot longer, than doing it the modern way, but given the difference in financial investment and maintenance time and cost, it seems like maybe not such a bad idea.
> 
> If you had my property, how would you handle it? (We asked a hay guy to hay it last year, and he couldn't get his machinery through our 8-foot gate.)




Stacked hay works in some arid climates, but in the humid east stacked hay, especially if it's not fully cured is going to be a soggy mess in a month unless well covered and even them it's likely going to rot.


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## COWS (Dec 23, 2012)

I'm in the humid Southeast. If you make a hay stack like I described above, it will keep better than hay in a round bale. Yes, there is some surface loss, but if it is stacked properly it will keep. The plan is to get it fed by the time spring comes. The crucila thing is to keep water from getting in around the stack pole.

COWS


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## jwal10 (Jun 5, 2010)

I think Laura was talking about a way to keep the hay from bleaching out until you got it baled. 

I have a 12'x12' stall that I pack my hay in, I walk it down good. It is short hay, a lot of clover. I put it in a big windrow to keep it from bleaching out, I have and would stack also if the hay just needed a little more time because the weather was not as sunny as needed right at the last curing time. I enjoy my little hay gathering time, the hay smells so good and I know how much my animals will enjoy it. Special treat for them....James


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## "SPIKE" (Dec 7, 2011)

Callieslamb said:


> Well, it seemed to me like he just cut it...but I think he had to use a torch. Yes, he fixed it so he can bolt it back on, but he doesn't do that too often. I'll see if I can get a picture for you tomorrow. The piece is about 18 inches but I'd better just get the picture for you.


Are you still working on getting a picture?:ashamed:
I would really like to see your modification before I start cutting on my bushhog. I guess you are saying, with the right modification the cut grass is being slung out before it is chopped up too much.

Thanks
SPIKE


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## "SPIKE" (Dec 7, 2011)

I would not mind doing it all by hand, if I had the time. When you are a one man gang, it is sometimes hard to get around to everything in a timely maner.
I did cut some last year with my european scythe. I am quit good with it. Hand raked and when dried, stuffed it as hard as I could into old feed sacks. My goats seemed to like it better than the hay I bought, but here hay is still relatively cheap. $4 square bales.
I could create some type sweep for the FEL on my 40 hp tractor. I do not have a large pasture area. It is pretty dry around here in fall and I could possibly even use some old metal I have aroud here to make a small pole barn to keep most of the weather off of it.

The best thing I have done with the scythe was cutting rye all winter to throw to the pigs. It does not take long to cut a little square and throw over the fence to them. That way they do not destroy the grass. I started it early enough in the fall that it grew well. Of course it did slow down in the winter, but I have even been able to cut over it twice. Winter was mild here again this year.

I can not give the goats too much at a time or it creates scoures with them. They love it and will always eat too much.
This has helped alot since it has been good food for the pigs especially and cut way back on the amount of hay needed.

Good thread, it has got me thinking.

SPIKE


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## Bret4207 (May 31, 2008)

COWS said:


> I'm in the humid Southeast. If you make a hay stack like I described above, it will keep better than hay in a round bale. Yes, there is some surface loss, but if it is stacked properly it will keep. The plan is to get it fed by the time spring comes. The crucila thing is to keep water from getting in around the stack pole.
> 
> COWS



Maybe it's our climate, but I've seen the Amish try and try to get stacks of hay to keep over winter numerous times without success over the last 15 years both tarped and uncovered. It just doesn't seem to work around here. Maybe it's the cold?


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## COWS (Dec 23, 2012)

Bret4207,

Can't answer about the cold, I'm not in a cold, or at least not very cold climate.

BTW, I will remind everyone that the Hesston company and others made a Tractor powered stacker that packed a rounded stack of hay, and made implements to pick up the stack and move it to be fed. Relatives had one and it worked to preserve hay. Hesston called it the "Stackhand."

COWS


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## wannabechef (Nov 20, 2012)

Look for plans on a pine straw baler...this will allow you to pack the straw and tie it.

http://essmextension.tamu.edu/pinestraw/baling.html

All Pinestraw sold around here is hand baled...it just takes a few minutes per bale to pack it in and compress and tie it.


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## DarleneJ (Jan 29, 2012)

The Amish here in NE Ohio have good success keeping their loose hay in barns. At least from what I've seen.


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## Bret4207 (May 31, 2008)

Loose hay in a barn is easy, even in a pole barn it's a snap if you have a decent floor. Outside is another story.


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## stanb999 (Jan 30, 2005)

I cut my hay, rake, and stack by hand.

Here is a few things I've found.

#1 When I cut with the brush hog the yield was so low it was hardly worth the effort of racking it up. Plus it will be all stem and no leaf.

#2 You can cut as much as you can deal with in about an hour or two with the scythe. Don't do too much at once. It takes as much time to rake it as to cut it.

#3 Don't over rake it. The more you turn and flip it the more you will lose leaves. Just do it once a day.

#4 Don't wind row till the second day. It will dry faster all spread out. Then make wide rows, let the ground dry, flip the hay to the dry spot. You aren't using a machine so you don't need tire room.

#5 it will rain. Rake it up and put it away. Or at least under a good tarp. After it stops and the ground dries. Spread it out again. It will be fine even it it take a day or to to get it back out. Getting rained on washes nutrients from the hay, this is the problem. Not being wet an extra day or two. 

#6 Never put it up too wet or dry. If it's too wet it will mold or worse. Too dry you will lose the leaves and put up stems. Do the microwave test. get a handful of the average dryness. Don't lie to yourself and take the driest. Weigh it green in grams on a postage or other small scale. Microwave it for 30 sec. Let it steam off. Weigh it again. Repeat till it stops losing weight. When your hay is 25-20% it will keep. At 20-15% it will be better. At less than 15% you will start losing the leaves.

#7 When you put it away. Check it for a day or two. If it seems moist or bends real easy. Put it back out. A few hours of sunshine will dry it up good. Don't hesitate to do this step. It's better to preserve well.

#8 loose hay staked has a small yield per sq. foot. It takes about 4 times the room as baled even if you "pack" it.



If you do the above the hay you will make is better than any you can buy.


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## Lazy J (Jan 2, 2008)

This is great advice, much of it applies to making hay with a tractor also.



stanb999 said:


> I cut my hay, rake, and stack by hand.
> 
> Here is a few things I've found.
> 
> ...


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## stanb999 (Jan 30, 2005)

Here is my scythe video. In this I cut about 3 bails worth.

[YOUTUBE]azCiqMp6OZw[/YOUTUBE]


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## stanb999 (Jan 30, 2005)

The hard work of putting hay up. 

[YOUTUBE]OZoLxODW05I[/YOUTUBE]


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## Laura Workman (May 10, 2002)

Yeah, Stan, but what do you do if you don't have those little monkeys to pack it down for you, huh? We're not all that lucky, you know. (So cute!)


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## Laura Workman (May 10, 2002)

Here are three pretty cool videos by Kai Vido, who I believe is the son of Peter Vido, who is a scythe guru. In these videos, a very substantial amount of hay is made, entirely by hand, and with tools and timing that would fit almost anyones budget and schedule. These folks live New Brunswick, Canada.

The first video covers the schedule and techniques for cutting and drying hay in one day.

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_sYyGwc9sas[/ame]

The second video covers making a haystack.

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=46Zn7pfNVCo[/ame]

The third video covers collecting the hay from the field onto a truck, in case you don't want to make haystacks.

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fIVAlV8YVF0[/ame]


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## FarmboyBill (Aug 19, 2005)

O but to have found a gal like enny those doing the hay vids when i was 21


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## FarmboyBill (Aug 19, 2005)

specially the one pitching hay onto the truck


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## FarmboyBill (Aug 19, 2005)

I thought I was a workhollic,
But after watching the gal rakeing and turning, and turning and spreading and then re rakeing, and double rowing, and then pileing. Thats got me beat. One person couldnt do hardly an acre with alla that
BUT it sure would be good hay.


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## Laura Workman (May 10, 2002)

I'm pretty sure the gal in the blue dress is Peter Vido's wife, the mother of the dark-haired gal, Ashley, and of the boy cutting hay in the first video, Kai. Here's a little 10-minute film that shows their farm and family. [ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bfhiqt1CrnU[/ame] 

I assure you, they take care of WAY more than an acre this way. Here's another video of the other daughter, Fairlight, a mean hand with a scythe. http://scytheworks.ca/riseofthescythe.html 

I took a two-day class from Peter's brother Alexander. I found him extremely knowledgeable and very, very kind. This family seems like really a nice group of folks.


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## FarmboyBill (Aug 19, 2005)

They might take care of way more than an acre. I ment to say that they likely couldnt do more than an acre a day. Cut, rake, re rake, re re rake, turn over, spread out, re rake, pile into cocks and then gather,


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## FarmboyBill (Aug 19, 2005)

IF all farmers raised their girls this way, and I did with mine, there would be more decent farm gals for a boy to look at, rather than thinking that alla the girls gone to town.


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## stanb999 (Jan 30, 2005)

FarmboyBill said:


> O but to have found a gal like enny those doing the hay vids when i was 21



Is she in a bikini? No
Is her clothes and hair made up? No
Is she shaking her butt? No



:grin: Only on homesteadingtoday...


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## FarmboyBill (Aug 19, 2005)

Stan, with her skills,she shouldnt ever get fat, and with her creds, she dont need enny those things you list. 
Shes enticeing just being herselves, City girls are enticeing with the things you mention.


I watched the vid about the dad. Loved it. BUT, He only took a doz swipes of the hay, and he had to walk off LOL. jus kidding. ALSO, They sure seemed like a happy lot at the dinner table NOT.

But, it was bittersweet, as what he had accomplished, was what I wanted to accomplish with my family, and would have IF I had married a country woman. My kids did/learned to do alot, BUT, I guess it effected them transversly as they both live , one in town, and one on a 100 X 70 lot.


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## elkhound (May 30, 2006)

at the end of this thread theres a few videos about haying you might find interesting


http://www.homesteadingtoday.com/sp...ingletree/460573-alternatives-lifestyles.html


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## spud (Feb 3, 2007)

I did a lot of haying in the 70's, small bales and this looks like a great alternative to baling. Very simple, doesn't break down and very fast too. Why couldn't you store hay in one of those steel roofed garages that are very economic too, that would allow air circulation above it. Thanks for showing them. jeff


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