# A typical welfare queen



## poppy (Feb 21, 2008)

This woman has 12 kids between 6 months and 11 years old. She is not married and her fiance is in prison. She says she is entitled to have all the kids she wants at the same time she says people owe her. I feel sorry for the kids but have no pity on the woman.

By KEITH MORELLI
[email protected]
Published: April 22, 2010
TAMPA - The din of Room 168 at the Economy Inn on East Busch Boulevard occasionally drowned out conversation.
Twelve children ranging in age from 6 months to 11 years old spent the past week there, scrambling across the floor, bouncing on beds. Their eyes filled with resignation Wednesday morning; they were hungry and dirty - wearing the same clothes as the day before and the day before that.
Angel Adams, the mom, was asking for help as the children rambled about the room. She was homeless and hopeless, she said. A relative paid for the motel room for a week, and after that, who knows. Her fiance is in prison.
With measured indignation, Adams said somebody owes her.
By the end of the day Wednesday, help had arrived.
Nick Cox, regional director of the Florida Department of Children & Families, paid Adams a visit and, standing outside the motel room with all 12 children present, offered a solution. He said there was room at A Kid's Place in Brandon, a cottage large enough to house a family of 12. Though wary of the offer, Adams agreed.
The lifelong Tampa resident said she wants justice from the Hillsborough County Sheriff's Office child protection team that took her kids away from her two years ago and from Hillsborough Kids Inc., which got her kids back six months ago.
"What do I do?" she said earlier in the day. "I have no answers. My family has been railroaded. Someone needs to pay.
"Nobody's helping me."
She doesn't trust the system, she said. It was a system that despite all the good intentions landed her in the motel, in this fix, in the first place, she said.
Wednesday morning, in the dingy motel room, Adams handed out a list of her children's names and ages. Across the top: "Three fathers. One Mother. Fifteen Children."
One of them, a 1-year-old, is named John the Baptist Brown.
Ten of the children, she said, were fathered by Garry Brown, currently serving a five-year prison term for dealing cocaine. A sampling of his kids' names: Garry Nesha, Garry Brown Jr., Garry Lethia, Garryiell and Garry Rick.
Cuban sandwiches and packaged noodles were donated during the motel stay. In the room, a microwave sat on top of a small refrigerator. No stove. One sink. One toilet. One shower. Everyone walked barefoot over a grimy green carpet.
The smell of dirty diapers filled the room. Jerome, 11, gave Andrew, 6 months, a bottle. "This is not comfortable," Jerome said.
The baby coughed and spit up on Jerome's hand. He didn't flinch and patted the baby on the back.
"The girls sleep on one bed," Adams said. "The boys sleep on the other. I just crash on the floor."
The 12 kids are the youngest of 15, she said. Three have "aged out," meaning they have turned 18 and are on their own, no longer a part of the child welfare system.
"I can have as many as I want to," she said. All her kids, she added, "are gifts from God."
The 37-year-old mother doesn't work. "This is my work," she said, gesturing toward the bunch. "I do this all by myself. I don't know what I'm going to do. This is a revolving door going nowhere."
She said her problems began two years ago when Brown was arrested and the money dried up. Right after that her children were taken away and put in foster care over allegations of neglect, she said.
Hillsborough Kids stepped in and took the case, eventually returning the children to her and Brown. Before Christmas, the couple took a two-bedroom apartment off North Boulevard near Columbus Drive.
Hillsborough Kids agreed to pay the $800 a month rent after caseworkers inspected the apartment and, although finding it a bit cramped, said it was OK.
The landlord, who evicted Adams in March, thought differently.
Sandy Chiellini said Adams showed up to sign the lease with Brown and one child. She didn't learn until later that there were 11 other children. There were problems with plumbing; downstairs tenants were flooded. There was noise. Occasional visits from police. Other tenants were complaining. Some left.
She said Adams' apartment was trashed. Clothes and food were scattered everywhere. Screens were broken out. Chiellini began eviction proceedings. Adams failed to show up for two eviction hearings.
Chiellini said Adams and her children left on April 15, taking only the clothes on their backs.
Cox said opinions about Adams aside, the children are the main concern. He said she loves the kids and they love her, and the department does not want to split the family.
Lodging at A Kid's Place is temporary, and department caseworkers will have to figure out how to place the Adams family in a permanent home. That's down the road, he said. For now, at least they are out of the hotel room.
"My children fear DCF," Adams told Cox outside the motel room Wednesday afternoon. "I do, too."
"I want to make sure right now you and your kids are not living in a hotel room," he responded.
Still, Adams was hesitant. She wanted to know about the long term.
"I need money," she said. "I need transportation. My children need a place to live."
Hillsborough Kids spokesman Elaine Olszewski said her agency has been working with Adams for months, and there is a system of support at work behind the scenes.
Case managers have been in constant contact with Adams, Olszewski said.
Typically, single moms in similar situations have frequent visits by caseworkers, who work with charities in the community and coordinate grant money to pay for services.
"It's on a case-by-case basis," she said. "It's not that we would financially support them, but we are connected to community partners that provide assistance."
The goal when children are removed from the home is to get them back with their parents, she said, and caseworkers try to work to that end.
"Children always are better with their biological parents," she said. "Once we determine they are safe and everything is appropriate, there's a six-month period when they still are technically in the system. We continue to monitor the kids."
She said all the children of school age are enrolled and going to school, although Adams said they have not attended classes since she took up residence in the hotel. She said she can't get them to school.
"There's a lot of support out there," Olszewski said, "and we kind of direct them. She has the support from the community, churches and family members."


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## gideonprime (Oct 17, 2007)

Actually she is not the typical. She has many moe kids than most and obviously the department of social services is not doing their job. WHy the kids are returned is beyond me as there is clearly a lack of stable housing which is a reason to take the children. Additionally I believe there are rules regarding co-sleeping etc.

No one owes her anything she owes herself the nedd to grow up and provide for her brood or stop having kids she cannot provide for.

Sounds like the tampa DCF office mightneed some looking into.


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## Wolf mom (Mar 8, 2005)

_Dirty, hungry, homeless??_ She needs to have her kids taken away from her. And every successive one as soon as it's born!

Tough love......and yes, it's all about the children.


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## Gercarson (Nov 2, 2003)

Wolf mom said:


> _Dirty, hungry, homeless??_ She needs to have her kids taken away from her. And every successive one as soon as it's born!
> 
> Tough love......and yes, it's all about the children.


She firmly and absolutley believes that she is OWED - that she is ENTITLED. Guess what, there are those who will agree with her to the extent that she will be well taken care of. That is because we love children and she uses them as blackmail. We will not let children suffer


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## sirquack (Feb 18, 2009)

She is a horrible mother and needs to have her kids taken from her. She is no less culpable as the octo-mom in having that many children with no plan on how to take care of them. She decided to get engaged to a drug dealer, she chose to lay with her men to have the children. She is only holding onto the kids in hopes that someone else will take care of her/them. Without the kids, she would not have the ability to cry a river about how she needs someone to take care of her. 
The state should tell her to take a flying leap and take the kids away and let her fend for herself.


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## Wolf mom (Mar 8, 2005)

It really would be nice, sirquack - BUT federal law, as the article states, believes children should be with their natural parent(s) and every effort for any child protective service is to this end. The children already were taken away - then returned.

Mmmm - working the system, eh?


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## copperkid3 (Mar 18, 2005)

With measured indignation, Adams said somebody owes her.

"I have no answers. My family has been railroaded. Someone needs to pay.
"Nobody's helping me."

"I can have as many as I want to," she said. 
The 37-year-old mother doesn't work. "This is my work," she said, gesturing toward the bunch.
*"I do this all by myself. I don't know what I'm going to do. 
This is a revolving door going nowhere."*

"I need money," she said. "I need transportation. My children need a place to live."

"Children always are better with their biological parents" ......:umno: :grit:


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## moonspirit (Dec 22, 2009)

She should keep her legs closed


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## poppy (Feb 21, 2008)

gideonprime said:


> Actually she is not the typical. She has many moe kids than most and obviously the department of social services is not doing their job. WHy the kids are returned is beyond me as there is clearly a lack of stable housing which is a reason to take the children. Additionally I believe there are rules regarding co-sleeping etc.
> 
> No one owes her anything she owes herself the nedd to grow up and provide for her brood or stop having kids she cannot provide for.
> 
> Sounds like the tampa DCF office mightneed some looking into.


She is what I always called a welfare queen. Kid after kid, no job, blaming everyone but herself, and demanding more. I don't call a woman with a child or 2 whose husband deserted her and has to get on welfare for awhile a welfare queen. Many of them will find a job and at least try to make it on their own.


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## poppy (Feb 21, 2008)

moonspirit said:


> She should keep her legs closed


At this point they are probably froze open.


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## Guest (Apr 26, 2010)

The problem is she is not the lone ranger . How many others are out there that are basically like her ? I suspect millions , especially in the inner cities .


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## naturelover (Jun 6, 2006)

I find fault with her and with the 3 men who lay with her. She is obviously mentally deficient and the men who fathered children on her took advantage of her deficiency. What caring and responsible man in his right mind would continue to father children on a woman in such circumstances? 

Sorry, but I can't think of these breeder people as humans but more as unrestrained animals. This kind of behaviour is not the behaviour of responsible humans, it's more like the unrestrained behaviour of male animals in rut after a willing female animal in heat. The mother is a victim of the men who got her pregnant and the offspring are the worst victims of all in this case. If they were in the natural state the offspring would die. 

She should be spayed and the men who victimize her should be neutered. 

There, that opens up a whole different kettle of fish for you to debate over.

.


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## dezingg (Feb 25, 2010)

I find myself wishing that there was some sort of group home they could go to and everyone, including mom!, would have chores, schooling and if possible jobs near the home. They'd have to give most of their money to the group if they did have a job. 

But that is still supporting her with the money of others. 

Oddly enough I was thinking about octo-mom too.


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## dezingg (Feb 25, 2010)

naturelover said:


> I find fault with her and with the 3 men who lay with her. She is obviously mentally deficient and the men who fathered children on her took advantage of her deficiency. What caring and responsible man in his right mind would continue to father children on a woman in such circumstances?
> 
> Sorry, but I can't think of these breeder people as humans but more as unrestrained animals. This kind of behaviour is not the behaviour of responsible humans, it's more like the unrestrained behaviour of male animals in rut after a willing female animal in heat. The mother is a victim of the men who got her pregnant and the offspring are the worst victims of all in this case. If they were in the natural state the offspring would die.


I'm not certain that we know who was taking advantage of whom. Certainly there was a constant series of bad decisions among all adults. I wonder how many of the adults might have been from welfare environments. Yes, the kids are the principle victims, they had no choice. And it seems that drugs may have been involved, although they don't say that dad used drugs.

The comparison to animals seems too fitting ... give them food and a place to stay and you end up with a bigger herd that needs more food and shelter. They don't have to figure out if there's enough feed for more babies, the feed magically appears. 



naturelover said:


> She should be spayed and the men who victimize her should be neutered.
> 
> There, that opens up a whole different kettle of fish for you to debate over.


Yeah, if one did adopt a sterilization program, what would be the guidelines? Two kids max unless you can support the family without external subsidies?


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## ChristyACB (Apr 10, 2008)

This is a prime example of what can easily lead to a great deal of evil...such as sterilizing teen girls who are disobedient (hey..the school I went to did it for years until the thirties), to the mentally "defective" where society determines the defective requirement without consistency and to other very bad things.

But it's so alluring to look at a testimony like that and say, "It's obvious!" Because for her, it is obvious. She isn't a human...not at all. She may look like a human, but she's not. She's a predator of humans as is her current male mate. She is a cunning animal that has discovered she can breed and get money instead of having to use a gun. But make no mistake, this subhuman would resort to stealing or hold ups or murder or anything else if she couldn't breed to get the money.

It is, in short, a prime example of the type of person who should be declared mentally incompetent, sterilized, declared non-human or reclassified as a parasite on the human body and quietly kenneled with other parasites.

But that would be monstrous and would lead to all the bad things I addressed first. Unfortunately, this is what it is. 

Perhaps a letter writing campaign is in order? And I have no doubt who she voted for either....


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## blooba (Feb 9, 2010)

moonspirit said:


> She should keep her legs closed





naturelover said:


> I find fault with her and with the 3 men who lay with her. She is obviously mentally deficient and the men who fathered children on her took advantage of her deficiency. What caring and responsible man in his right mind would continue to father children on a woman in such circumstances?


Why should she stop? When this country pays people to have kids you will have people like this that will turn it into a business. When you can produce a product in 9 months that draws a guaranteed income for 18 yrs, why stop producing them?

It's not the guys that took advantage of her. She's taking advantage of us(the taxpayers)


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## Guest (Apr 26, 2010)

I think DCF is in the wrong. 

As a foster parent, we had strict rules about how many kids we could have and how much space we had to have for each kid. Birth families don't have to do that. Why they put 12 people in a 2 bedroom apartment is beyond me. A little cramped? No. Some social worker wanted to get her off her desk. My guess is that there wasn't one foster home who would take all 12 kids so they split them up. Since the Mom isn't a violent offender, she probably had at least one family visit a week. Gathering all of the kids from all of the foster homes and facilitating a meeting probably took up a full day of a social workers work week. Add in Court, home visits with each child. Since the system is so over burndoned, this family is NOT the only one the social worker has to deal with. Having them land ANYWHERE they can be together would be enough to get them off of her desk and free the social worker up to take care of other families on her caseload. 

I've seen it happen many times. A social worker is out of touch for a few weeks with one of my foster kids and explains it by "I have a large family on my caseload". 

So here's a Mom in a place that's just like the one she just left. How in the world is she supposed to change the pattern when she's set up to fail?


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## naturelover (Jun 6, 2006)

blooba said:


> Why should she stop? When this country pays people to have kids you will have people like this that will turn it into a business. When you can produce a product in 9 months that draws a guaranteed income for 18 yrs, why stop producing them?
> 
> It's not the guys that took advantage of her. She's taking advantage of us(the taxpayers)


I realize you're being facetious in your above comment however I disagree about the men not taking advantage of her. Of course they did, and they should be held responsible for their actions just as much as she should be. The onus can't rest on her shoulders alone. 

I have to say your post put this image in my mind of irresponsible and inhumane people who own puppy mills that churn out puppies indiscriminately. Visualizing this woman, and yes, those men too, churning out babies as if it was a puppy mill. Usually when people make a living from producing a product that guarantees them the income, it's either something that gets sold to consumers to be eaten or sold to be put to work or played with by the consumer. In this case there is no consumer but the product is being paid for by people who can't benefit in any way from the product.

.


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## springvalley (Jun 23, 2009)

I worked with a gal who did absolutely nothing. She was bold enough to tell me that she was there just because They (welfare) 'cut her off' and she'd be back once she was 'in the family way' again. She was going out every night and 'doing it' with anyone willing. Two months later she was pregnant and had no idea who 'daddy' was!! Wonder what else she 'picked up' and could pass to her children... sigh...

I've often wondered why they don't make these gals work for their money. Set up some sort of hotel or what have you. Put .... say... 4-5 women and their families in this building. Then train 2 of the women to properly take care of ALL the children so that the other 2-3 women can go out and get a job, the money for which will go to support the entire group until they decide they can take care of their family by THEMSELVES and no longer be 'in the system'. If one woman decides she wants to quit her job, then she rotates in taking care of all the kiddos while another one gets a job! First off, the ones out working can learn a trade other than getting preggers perhaps. Secondly, the ones taking care of the children will learn the proper way to take care of them and perhaps realize just how much work is involved. Thirdly, there would develop peer pressure if one doesn't foot her end of the deal! Perhaps then they wouldn't have more children? Oh, and make a cerfew, no men allowed... any other rules we should add? Oh, yea, then if they get pegnant or violate any of the rules, they're cut off!! Of course this means we'd have to train them to the use of birthcontrol... or do an implant!!

Oh, one more item while I'm getting my 2 cents worth in here... People are not OWED a TV, stereo, car, cell phone, having their hair done, or their nails. They should not be allowed to buy cigarettes, alcohol, or other UNNECESSARY items. Food, clothing and shelter is all we should be supplying. 

Off my soap box now.... 

-Catherine


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## Becka (Mar 15, 2008)

The only thing she "deserves" is sterilization. The dads should be rounded up and required to pay for any children they sired.


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## Tiempo (May 22, 2008)

copperkid3 said:


> With measured indignation, Adams said somebody owes her.
> 
> "I have no answers. My family has been railroaded. Someone needs to pay.
> "Nobody's helping me."
> ...


Interesting editing.



> I can have as many as I want to," she said. All her kids, she added, "are gifts from God."


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## Laura Zone 5 (Jan 13, 2010)

ALL children are gifts from God......however, they are 'supposed' to be created inside the covenant of marriage


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## cindy71 (Jul 7, 2008)

It is stories like this that makes people so angry about WELFARE. A lady I clean for is an OB/GYN and she says births in Birmingham, Al are down. She works for a office that doesn't take Medicaid. We were having a conversation about the subject and I stated that with the job loses we have had people are losing their insurance and with no insurance they choose not have more children because of the cost. Some people who may have 1 or 2 kids might have wanted to have another child even if they have insurance are not have them because they know how hard it can be to feed, cloth, and educate another child. Being a respondsable parent where this mom in this story clearly is not. Cindy


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## Chuck (Oct 27, 2003)

There's a family in our neighborhood that has ten children living in a 2 bedroom single wide trailer. they ostensibly "homeschool" but their 12-year-old cannot read and their 18-year-old might read at a 2nd grade level. Their home and the lot around it are piled high with garbage and broken down cars. Dad doesn't work and mom is, I think, mentally ill. 

but they are one big happy family. I feel for the kids but they are loved and fed, if not very clean. I have struggled with whether or not they should be reported to CPS, but in the end, I fear they'd have a worse time of it in the WV foster system.


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## poppy (Feb 21, 2008)

Chuck said:


> There's a family in our neighborhood that has ten children living in a 2 bedroom single wide trailer. they ostensibly "homeschool" but their 12-year-old cannot read and their 18-year-old might read at a 2nd grade level. Their home and the lot around it are piled high with garbage and broken down cars. Dad doesn't work and mom is, I think, mentally ill.
> 
> but they are one big happy family. I feel for the kids but they are loved and fed, if not very clean. I have struggled with whether or not they should be reported to CPS, but in the end, I fear they'd have a worse time of it in the WV foster system.


That is a tragedy waiting to happen. We had a similar family near us living in an old trailer a few months ago, but they had six kids. The dad was a worthless bum who left the family and moved in with a girlfriend. One night the trailer caught fire and the mother tried to get them all out. The older kids got out and the mother got one of the twins out but she never got out when she went back for the other. In all, the mother and 2 kids died.


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## Daddyof4 (Jan 5, 2004)

Chuck said:


> There's a family in our neighborhood that has ten children living in a 2 bedroom single wide trailer. they ostensibly "homeschool" but their 12-year-old cannot read and their 18-year-old might read at a 2nd grade level. Their home and the lot around it are piled high with garbage and broken down cars. Dad doesn't work and mom is, I think, mentally ill.
> 
> but they are one big happy family. I feel for the kids but they are loved and fed, if not very clean. I have struggled with whether or not they should be reported to CPS, but in the end, I fear they'd have a worse time of it in the WV foster system.


Chuck you really need to get involved NOW. Happy or not that many kids crammed in a single wide is a tragic fire waiting to happen.


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## Shygal (May 26, 2003)

Daddyof4 said:


> Chuck you really need to get involved NOW. Happy or not that many kids crammed in a single wide is a tragic fire waiting to happen.


Sure, lets take them away from their happy family and split them all up in the foster care system. 
I find it funny that people are complaining about too many people living in a 2 bedroom place, yet I bet a bunch that post here are doing just that, we have people living in shipping containers, yurts, tiny houses , cabins, mobile homes, etc and no one says a thing
This forum is filled with people that say there is too much government, yet here you are advocating the government get involved with kids that are happ and well fed, etc, not abused


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## copperkid3 (Mar 18, 2005)

Tiempo said:


> Interesting editing.


***************************************
or you DO agree with her on the rest of her diatribe??? :gaptooth::bored:


BTW: If she really believed the part that I 'censored', don't you think she'd have 
a little more respect for not only herself, but the situation that she's placed her
kids into? They have very little chance of 'improving' themselves other than modeling 
what 'MOM' has shown them the way life is. Cry long and loud enough and sure enough,
someone will come along and bail you out.


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## texican (Oct 4, 2003)

She is owed. Owed an apology by her mother, (doubt there was a father involved... these things tend to be multi-generational) for not raising her better. I wonder if any of the children actually have the same father... or rather seed provider... there's absolutely nothing close to a 'father' in these cases...


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## Chuck (Oct 27, 2003)

Shygal said:


> Sure, lets take them away from their happy family and split them all up in the foster care system.
> I find it funny that people are complaining about too many people living in a 2 bedroom place, yet I bet a bunch that post here are doing just that, we have people living in shipping containers, yurts, tiny houses , cabins, mobile homes, etc and no one says a thing
> This forum is filled with people that say there is too much government, yet here you are advocating the government get involved with kids that are happ and well fed, etc, not abused


gotta agree with Shygal on this one - part of having a free country means being able to raise your kids as you see fit. these kids aren't starving or abused - they are crammed into a little house, and very poor, but I've seen worse all over the world.


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## Laura Zone 5 (Jan 13, 2010)

> This forum is filled with people that say there is too much government, yet here you are advocating the government get involved with kids that are happ and well fed, etc, not abused


Amen! This is where THE Church is supposed to be involved, not the government!



> There's a family in our neighborhood that has ten children living in a 2 bedroom single wide trailer. they ostensibly "homeschool" but their 12-year-old cannot read and their 18-year-old might read at a 2nd grade level. Their home and the lot around it are piled high with garbage and broken down cars. Dad doesn't work and mom is, I think, mentally ill.


If you belong to a church, or know someone who does, can the pastor and someone else go with him to introduce themselves, and ask the family if they can help? Maybe the youth group can come over and clean up the trash around the trailer? Small house and poor is one thing. Filthy and health hazards are another. If the garbage is piled high, that invites rats, and disease. Mold and Mildew = disease.....This is more than just small house and poor.

Maybe the leader of your local home school group can visit and find a way to help the kids......get them to a home school class or something??

Maybe there are so older fella's in the church that can take the older children into some sort of apprentice program, and teach them a trade or skill??

Maybe someone of Faith should help break this "generational curse" and at the very least, show these children that someone out there DOES care, and DID try to help them.....

This is so sad, this story breaks my heart.


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## Gercarson (Nov 2, 2003)

Laura Zone 5 said:


> Amen! This is where THE Church is supposed to be involved, not the government!
> 
> If you belong to a church, or know someone who does, can the pastor and someone else go with him to introduce themselves, and ask the family if they can help? Maybe the youth group can come over and clean up the trash around the trailer? Small house and poor is one thing. Filthy and health hazards are another. If the garbage is piled high, that invites rats, and disease. Mold and Mildew = disease.....This is more than just small house and poor.
> 
> ...


Every neighborhood needs a person with your ideals - what are "we" dooming these children's future to? Let's take a moment to reflect on Matthew 25:31-46


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## Laura Zone 5 (Jan 13, 2010)

*Matthew 25:31-46 (New International Version)*

*The Sheep and the Goats *

31"When the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, he will sit on his throne in heavenly glory. 
32All the nations will be gathered before him, and he will separate the people one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats. 
33He will put the sheep on his right and the goats on his left. 34"Then the King will say to those on his right, 'Come, you who are blessed by my Father; take your inheritance, the kingdom prepared for you since the creation of the world. 

35For I was hungry and you gave me something to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink, I was a stranger and you invited me in, 

36I needed clothes and you clothed me, I was sick and you looked after me, I was in prison and you came to visit me.' 
37"Then the righteous will answer him, 'Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you something to drink? 

38When did we see you a stranger and invite you in, or needing clothes and clothe you? 

39When did we see you sick or in prison and go to visit you?' 
40"The King will reply, 'I tell you the truth, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers of mine, you did for me.' 
41"Then he will say to those on his left, 'Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. 

42For I was hungry and you gave me nothing to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me nothing to drink, 

43I was a stranger and you did not invite me in, I needed clothes and you did not clothe me, I was sick and in prison and you did not look after me.' 
44"They also will answer, 'Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or needing clothes or sick or in prison, and did not help you?' 
45"He will reply, 'I tell you the truth, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me.' 
46"Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life."


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## texican (Oct 4, 2003)

Laura Zone 5 said:


> *Matthew 25:31-46 (New International Version)*
> 
> *The Sheep and the Goats *
> 
> ...


Pardon me if I'm wrong, I'm not a bible scholar... some folks on this site are, and if I'm wrong, I'm wrong...

Back in biblical days, there were beggars... but they didn't comprise a large percentage of the population. 

IF all socialized forms of welfare were to cease overnight, and all charity was localized, and people on welfare had to live up to some level of morality in order to receive charity (or it would be withheld), I could see going along with the biblical standard. I know multigenerational families that have never worked a day in their lives... there's absolutely nothing wrong with them that would prevent them from working, outside of sheer laziness. They're totally taken care of, all their needs are met. No local charity would touch them, as their multigenerational incest fest turns most people off.

You tax behavior you wish to cease, and subsidize behavior you wish to prosper. This country's got it all backwards.

I'd feed, clothe, and shelter anyone in need.

I'd not do it forever, while they sat back, drank beers, and got jiggy with their children. Maybe I'm a bad person, I don't know.

Someone can't take care of their critters or their kids, stop getting more, and give up the ones you got.


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## RiverPines (Dec 12, 2006)

I dont believe in taking kids away when the parent/parents fall on hard times and finds themselves homeless and of course dirty..they are homeless! Not to many washing machines on the street and it cost money to wash cloths!

But the parent/s should be trying to help themselves! This women should be looking for a job, working with social services for daycare and transit. She should be doing something other than just sitting and waiting for others to do everything for her!! 
Since she has no interest in trying to provide at least some financial care for her kids, then take them away!! Then nail her for child support and make her look for a job or toss her in jail if she fails to support them. She can join the looser dads behind bars.

You cant just have kids and not expect to do what you have to care for them!

Assistance is 'assistance', not total 'live your life for you' services!


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## blooba (Feb 9, 2010)

texican said:


> You tax behavior you wish to cease, and subsidize behavior you wish to prosper. This country's got it all backwards.
> 
> I'd feed, clothe, and shelter anyone in need.
> 
> ...


Give a person a fish, they eat for a day. Teach a person how to fish they eat for life. 

Wasn't that in the bible also?

We need to quit giving these people these fish everyday and teach them to go get their own.


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## vickiesmom (Feb 25, 2005)

I feel sorry for this mom. She is overwhelmed. Granted no one told her to have this many children (I have 8 myself) but, she needs help with coping skills. Whites are very quick with separating minorities from their children, they did it with Indians, slaves... I would like there to be more help in education for her, not school, but just how to run a large household. Trust me, after my husband died I encountered many of the same problems she is dealing with, including white neighbors who felt it would be in the best interest of the kids to be in foster care, because 8 was just too much for one person. Twenty years later, five kids in college I'm still standing.


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## Gercarson (Nov 2, 2003)

blooba said:


> Give a person a fish, they eat for a day. Teach a person how to fish they eat for life.
> 
> Wasn't that in the bible also?
> 
> We need to quit giving these people these fish everyday and teach them to go get their own.


This wonderful old "saying" is not actually in the Bible - but it should be. Laura Zone 5 was basically saying the same thing - while attending to "the least of these" - teach them "to fish" - do not doom them to a life of welfare, poverty and a life of want and need - do it as a community and not as an "entitlement" or "right" to the largess of the tax payer.


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## farmmom (Jan 4, 2009)

The Bible also says if you don't work, you don't eat.

I feel for the children in this situation, and although they may love mom and mom may love them, if she is unwilling to even attept to support and take care of them, other arrangements need to be made, no matter the race of the family in question. I don't know her race. I didn't pay that much attention. The important fact is that she has a house full of children that she has not interest in attempting to support. Instead she feels entitled to my tax dollar for as long as she has children under 18. I have a problem with that.


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## FreightTrain (Nov 5, 2005)

the best way to keep people down is to give them what they need


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## willow_girl (Dec 7, 2002)

What could possibly change this poor degraded creature's situation for the better except great love?

And that is the mystery at the source of the Biblical teachings.


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## Laura Zone 5 (Jan 13, 2010)

2 Thessalonians 3:6-15

6 In the name of the Lord Jesus Christ, we command you, brothers, to keep away from every brother who is idle and does not live according to the teaching you received from us. 
7 For you yourselves know how you ought to follow our example. We were not idle when we were with you,
8 nor did we eat anyone's food without paying for it. On the contrary, we worked night and day, laboring and toiling so that we would not be a burden to any of you. 
9 We did this, not because we do not have the right to such help, but in order to make ourselves a model for you to follow. 
*10 **For even when we were with you, we gave you this rule: "If a man will not work, he shall not eat." *
11 We hear that some among you are idle. They are not busy; they are busybodies. 
12 Such people we command and urge in the Lord Jesus Christ to settle down and earn the bread they eat. 
13 And as for you, brothers, never tire of doing what is right. 
14 If anyone does not obey our instruction in this letter, take special note of him. Do not associate with him, in order that he may feel ashamed. 
15 Yet do not regard him as an enemy, but warn him as a brother.



> IF all socialized forms of welfare were to cease overnight, and all charity was localized, and people on welfare had to live up to some level of morality in order to receive charity (or it would be withheld), I could see going along with the biblical standard. I know multigenerational families that have never worked a day in their lives... there's absolutely nothing wrong with them that would prevent them from working, outside of sheer laziness. They're totally taken care of, all their needs are met. No local charity would touch them, as their multigenerational incest fest turns most people off.


See.....if we lived by the mandates in Scripture, we would not have the problems that you have described.....unfortunately, we as a society do not live by those mandates. We created our own, because we (a) didn't want Him (b) thought we were smarter then Him......and what we have is what we have created.

HOWEVER....as Believers, we are Commanded to follow His mandates, and by doing so will share His Love with others, leading them to Salvation. 
I know it's like jibber jabber if you are not a Believer, but that is the way it is!

The Body of Christ should step in and attend to this family of 12. For His Sake, if nothing else. To clean up the trash around the trailer, for the children's health at the very least.


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## 7thswan (Nov 18, 2008)

The Gov. should not give one single extra dime to anyone that has another child while on welfare. No If's, And's or But's.


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## vickiesmom (Feb 25, 2005)

I am always amazed at bible thumpers and tax payers...so hilarious! If you really think that either thing is truly what it appears you are very naive. The bible is just a book, nothing more and nothing less. I could wave Gone With The Wind and uote from it and gain followers, doesn't mean it is 'inspired' just mean folks are gullible! Tax payers, if you really think your tax money is going to anything but a politicians pocket, you really need to get more involved in politics. Here in Michigan, whenever people start whining about their tax dollars, the same thing happens twice a year...they start working on the roads...it is all smoke and mirrors...please. I don't need a mythological being to supervise my conduct. I am a good person with or without a 'bible', if you need one, then there are deeper issues at hand, moreso than woman with a lot of grungy kids.


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## farmmom (Jan 4, 2009)

Vickiesmom, I'm sorry you feel that I'm gullible because I believe what the Bible teaches. I am an intelligent human being (actually IQ tested above average intelligence) who has seen the working of God in my own life. No, I don't believe in coincidence. I believe everything has its purpose. 

I do not trust politicians. I believe their goal is to pad their pockets while enslaving the rest of us. I don't want to work for the government. I don't want to support everyone who feels that I "owe" them.


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## poppy (Feb 21, 2008)

willow_girl said:


> What could possibly change this poor degraded creature's situation for the better except great love?
> 
> And that is the mystery at the source of the Biblical teachings.


But is it love to abet people in their bad behavior by supplying them with free stuff? If a wino comes up to me on the street and wants 5 bucks to buy booze, is it love to give it to him and help him abuse himself further? There are always takers in any society. They do not want to change and no amount of help will make them change. Some of them hold high positions in finance and government and some of them are like the woman in the OP. Both are leeches on society. Their entire mindset is geared to manipulate the system.


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## farmmom (Jan 4, 2009)

Poppy - good question! I have a neighbor that has approached me a couple of times asking for money to buy food. I told him I didn't have any cash on me, (which I didn't)but I would be happy to give him a chicken from my freezer and a few potatoes. Nope, he wants cash. There are too many people working the system and not enough working.


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## vickiesmom (Feb 25, 2005)

well, I don't believe in the Bible or the god it represents. I think we are as much God as God is us...not some thing in the sky looking dow approvingly or disapprovingly...I call it the Super Santa Theory. I was raised Catholic and the one thing I will say about my religion is it educates. So much so that when you begin to read and learn other beliefs...ours sounds just as archaic as the Greeks. Just remember, the Bible now is just a bunch of politcal views thrown in by people with agendas. Get the book What Did Jesus Really Say....


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## used2bcool13 (Sep 24, 2007)

I don't agree with the fact that she thinks "someone" owes her. Because I sure didn't get her pregnant and it is ignorant to think that on a long-term basis "someone" is going to support her. 

I have been in plenty of situations where I have needed and received help, not necessarily money, just help, but I didn't feel that someone owed it to me.

At some point you have to assume responsibility for yourself, your children and your actions. If you marry a drug dealer, he or she will probably be in jail at some point.

I know that sounded harsh but this woman would feel better about herself if she could and did take care of her family. There are plenty of agencies that can help, habitat for humanity is one of them.


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## cindy71 (Jul 7, 2008)

I did some looking around on net today, she now has a 6 bedroom rental house. She owed $6000 to the housing auth in Tampa it is now gone. Any ban that was put on her is now gone. When I googled her name all kinds of forums are talking about her and the things are about the same, not good. People feel for the children but not for her. Cindy


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## Daddyof4 (Jan 5, 2004)

Shygal said:


> Sure, lets take them away from their happy family and split them all up in the foster care system.
> I find it funny that people are complaining about too many people living in a 2 bedroom place, yet I bet a bunch that post here are doing just that, we have people living in shipping containers, yurts, tiny houses , cabins, mobile homes, etc and no one says a thing
> This forum is filled with people that say there is too much government, yet here you are advocating the government get involved with kids that are happ and well fed, etc, not abused


Nowhere did I even imply that I wanted the kids "taken away". Chuck said they were a happy family and well fed so it is obvious the parents are doing their best. In that situation I was talking about Chuck getting involved by digging a bit deeper to make sure things like their wiring was okay and the trailer was in some manner of repair. If not there are plenty of private sector people willing to help.

Frankly I believe any comment I made in any direction would have been met with some snarky yet ridiculously knee jerk and totally inaccurate comment by you.


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## Daddyof4 (Jan 5, 2004)

Laura Zone 5 said:


> Amen! This is where THE Church is supposed to be involved, not the government!
> 
> If you belong to a church, or know someone who does, can the pastor and someone else go with him to introduce themselves, and ask the family if they can help? Maybe the youth group can come over and clean up the trash around the trailer? Small house and poor is one thing. Filthy and health hazards are another. If the garbage is piled high, that invites rats, and disease. Mold and Mildew = disease.....This is more than just small house and poor.
> 
> ...


I agree with you 100%.:goodjob:


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## Zipporah (Jul 30, 2006)

She can have as many as she wants but she can not complain if no one houses and feeds them,that's her job.I think they should offer her job training/education and cut her lose. The cycle has to be broken.She was more than likely raised this way and knows no other way of life.


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## BUDSMOM (Jun 21, 2006)

She must know a little about the bible, one of the kids is named john the baptist.


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## Chuck (Oct 27, 2003)

vickiesmom said:


> I am a good person with or without a 'bible', if you need one, then there are deeper issues at hand, moreso than woman with a lot of grungy kids.


So you're a good person? Says who? Upon what universal standard do you base your definition of "good"?

What you are really saying is that a worldview based on thousands of years of collected and proven wisdom is worthless, but your worldview - based on your opinion - is better.


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