# Why are we angry?



## Miss Kay (Mar 31, 2012)

I keep hearing that both Trump and Sanders are tapping in on the anger of the general public. It appears both sides are equally angry so this is not a democratic or Republican thing (save the political arguments for the politics page). So, are you angry and if so why. Try to be specific and personal instead of basing it on something you saw on TV or heard someone else say. 

As for me, I'm retired so unemployment and wages are not really something I lose sleep over. I'm not a minority so I'm not afraid of being shot by a cop. Heck, I've never even been arrested so no anger there. I have good insurance that is affordable so no anger there either, although I would certainly freak out if I didn't have that. Around here, prices seem to be holding so not worried about inflation. I'm enjoying the cheap gas prices so not angry about that. My son is not in the military and so far I haven't seen any Muslims around here so I'm not that afraid of being the target of a terrorist attack. I'm in Texas where everyone has a gun (or 10) but I've not been shot at yet so no anger there. I'm just a few miles from the border with Mexico but It hasn't had a negative affect on my life yet other than high car insurance. OK, maybe I could get angry about my car insurance. 

I'm not so naÃ¯ve to think that everyone shares my situation and I do feel for those with struggles. So, I guess I'm throwing the question out there to see what it really is like for my fellow Americans and how you are struggling and what is making you so angry? Care to share?


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## Farmerga (May 6, 2010)

Personally, I see how the Federal Government has ignored the bounds placed on it by the Constitution. I see the Federal Government as little more than a thug criminal enterprise with policing powers, at this point.


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## MO_cows (Aug 14, 2010)

I'm angry that the career politicians care more about scoring points for their party than the people they are supposed to represent. I'm angry that political zealots and special interests will give so much money to campaigns that exponentially more is spent on the office than it actually pays. Hundreds of millions in the presidential race for a term that pays $2mil for example. Is that not an example of a broken system? I'm angry that so many people continue to wave pom poms for one party or the other for one pet issue over everything else. I'm angry that the elected elite have spent us so far into debt. I'm angry that Obamacare was passed, and especially ticked off that Congress, both parties worked together, and gave themselves a "small business exemption" from it. And plenty more..........


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## Fishindude (May 19, 2015)

This could get rather lengthy.


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## City Bound (Jan 24, 2009)

I am angry because the federal government, regardless of which party is in power, acts like a rogue government that does not work in the interest of the American people, regardless of the race, sex, age, or political orientation of the American citizens.

I am angry about the double standards that continue to grow and fester in America.

I am angry that simply because I am white that I am automatically considered guilty of white privilege and the history of racism. My family has been here for 200 years and we are not living a mansion on the hill. 5% of my family over 200 years have ever broken out of working class poverty or got to the point of home or land ownership. I guess my widowed 80 year old great granny and my widowed great aunts in their 60's who cleaned houses just to afford a shared room with a communal toilet in a tenement building in the slum of hell's kitchen where enjoying white privilege. I guess my great, great, grandfather who lost his leg fighting to free slaves in the civil war was a racist. I guess living the rest of your life crippled and poor is white privilege. 
I guess when you go looking for a job and the signs say "irish need not apply" and the only job you can get are the jobs that slave owners wont let their slaves do because they are too dangerous or the wages are too low is white privilege.

I find it insulting and ignorant that so many blacks and white liberals seem to think that Africans were the only people who suffered slavery and oppression and that white are the only race that has ever practiced slavery and organized oppression.


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## Miss Kay (Mar 31, 2012)

I still haven't seen how this affects you personally unless you are saying you don't like YOUR insurance. I know we can complain all day about what someone else did but what has it done to you. You, how does it affect you?


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## Scott SW Ohio (Sep 20, 2003)

I'm with you, Miss Kay. I don't have much to be personally angry about. Life is pretty wonderful here, for us. Good luck with that car insurance thing.

I do think people are angrier about politics in general than they were thirty or forty years ago. I prefer reasoned discussion to the emotional rhetoric that seems to pass for political discourse these days, but I can't say it is a bad thing overall if it drives more people to become aware and involved.


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## City Bound (Jan 24, 2009)

Scott SW Ohio said:


> I do think people are angrier about politics in general than they were thirty or forty years ago. I prefer reasoned discussion to the emotional rhetoric that seems to pass for political discourse these days, but I can't say it is a bad thing overall if it drives more people to become aware and involved.



I think people are emotional because as a nation we can not go on the way we are going. Financially we are in crisis. 

Racial and ideological tensions usually flare up when money is tight. It is like a badly matched marriage. When money gets tight in a bad marriage it sparks friction and fights that eventually lead to divorce.

When the economy is good the only color all the different races and political groups in America seems to care about is green. Money is like the oil that lubes the engine. Free bread and circuses keep people happy.


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

More disgusted than angry...


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## Laura Zone 5 (Jan 13, 2010)

Miss Kay said:


> I keep hearing that both Trump and Sanders are *tapping in on the anger of the general public.* It appears both sides are equally angry so this is not a democratic or Republican thing (save the political arguments for the politics page).


Why use a half naked woman to sell beer, cars, heck, just about anything?
Because sex sells.
Why use babies and puppies during the day time commercials?
Because cute sells.
Why tap into the anger of the general public?
Because people make stupid, irrational decisions when emotionally charged. They leave themselves vunerable and easy to manipulate when they are emotionally charged.

Boobies are exciting, so I'll buy that beer.
Awwww puppies and babies are soooooo cute. I'll buy that laundry soap.
And when someone plays to your anger, gets you all worked up then presents a 'solution'......I'll vote for him/her.

Hitler used to have a low tone pumped thru the speakers; not heard by the human ear, but it agitated the crowd, made them anxious, nervous, irritated. Then he would get on stage, cut the sound, and give a speech providing a solution.........their emotions settled down, and they bought his bull hook line and sinker.



> So, are you angry and if so why. Try to be specific and personal instead of basing it on something you saw on TV or heard someone else say.


I am angry that a man and woman can be married 25 years, and one spouse stayed home, raised the kids, cared for the home, put the other spouse thru college, and didn't work more than part time at a degreeless job, never pursuing higher education themselves: and then when the one who reaped all those benefits for 25 years decides to call it quits?
The BEST you get is 50/50. You don't get your 25 years back and the one who sacrificed and provided for 25 years, is screwed.
That, makes me angry.

But, like all things, you can't let it consume you.
You say "yep, that's a load of carp' and move on.

It makes me angry that I work 40-50 hours a week at 2.13 an hour + tips and 200.00 a month for Obama care (with a 3,000.00 deductible) while illegals, and able bodies lazy donkeys get free health care, food stamps, SSI, and on and on and on.

But, like all things, you can't let it consume you.
You say "yep that's all a load of carp and you move on".

I would be more inclined (I can't believe I am saying this) to vote for Trump ONLY because he's not a career politician. He's a horses back side and doesn't give a fart what anyone thinks. 



> As for me, I'm retired so unemployment and wages are not really something I lose sleep over. I'm not a minority so I'm not afraid of being shot by a cop. Heck, I've never even been arrested so no anger there. I have good insurance that is affordable so no anger there either, although I would certainly freak out if I didn't have that. Around here, prices seem to be holding so not worried about inflation. I'm enjoying the cheap gas prices so not angry about that. My son is not in the military and so far I haven't seen any Muslims around here so I'm not that afraid of being the target of a terrorist attack. I'm in Texas where everyone has a gun (or 10) but I've not been shot at yet so no anger there. I'm just a few miles from the border with Mexico but It hasn't had a negative affect on my life yet other than high car insurance. OK, maybe I could get angry about my car insurance.


I'm 50, with no marketable skills, wait tables for 2.13 an hour plus tips.
I have bulging disc issues, 3 knee surgeries under my belt w/ the bonus of gout and arthritis in said knee. 
I currently have a level 3 separation in my shoulder, my C4 and C5 are ground down from throwing trays for 30 years.
I have PTSD that am I leaning to manage, 5 years after it's onset.
I work 5 doubles this week, 5 straight days, from 10am-10pm. 
Am I angry? No, it is what it is. I gotta do what I gotta do to put a roof over my head. 
No one's coming to save me. No one gives a crap if I live or die, so I need to buck up, and get er done. 
This world is going to hades in a hand basket (literally) and I can't stop it.
So I need to take care of me and mine. The end.



> I'm not so naÃ¯ve to think that everyone shares my situation and I do feel for those with struggles. So, I guess I'm throwing the question out there to see what it really is like for my fellow Americans and *how you are struggling and what is making you so angry? * Care to share?


Struggles clearly stated above

If I get and stay angry I will injure myself, and drive everyone away, making me a lonely old woman. 
At my age, I come from the generation of "suck it up, stick your nose to the grindstone, and get it done. Push Push Push......"

Today?
Too many generations of entitled cry babies that LIVE to be offended.

I'd guess that the 'young ones' (40 and under) will love Bernie cause he will legalize weed, and he's everything that's been beat into their heads through 'school'.
The 45 and older's will go w/ Trump because he appeals to the 'work your butt off to get somewhere" crowd.

Hope this answers your questions.


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## Miss Kay (Mar 31, 2012)

Exactly Scott. I want to know. I live here on my little ranch and don't see much so I want to hear from all over the nation. So far I've heard the government is criminal and gone rogue. Not saying they haven't but what personal experience do you have with that? Have they come to your house yet and taken any of your rights away etc? I hear about the national debt and yes that is a debt to be paid by every tax payer but I venture to guess some of you on here don't pay tax and may even get the earned income credit. I want to hear from those affected by the national debt personally already. Obamacare - Tell me what this did to you. Did you lose your plan, get made to go part time, just how did this affect you? The false white privilege (by the way I'm white)? Have you been turned down from a job based on your whiteness (if that's even a word) or has anyone said anything to your face about you being responsible for all those things you mentioned? The economy - let's hear it. Have you lost your job, your home, or what?

Thanks for participating in an adult discussion but I'd like to see us bring this home. Tell me your story so its not just talk or a repeat of something you heard on talk radio.


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## Miss Kay (Mar 31, 2012)

Thank you Laura. You can't bring it home much closer than that. You have ample reason to be angry but I'm glad you have a great attitude about it.


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## Laura Zone 5 (Jan 13, 2010)

Miss Kay I have my days where I am just a wizzed off white girl.
Sometimes I cry myself to sleep.
Sometimes I give my .9 the hairy eye.
Sometimes I lay on the couch for hours and not move........

BUT

I have dreams. Dreams of owning my own home, raising chickens (and maybe a cow!), maybe a goat or two. Having my big gardens, canning, dehydrating, etc.
Own a pick up truck.
I hope before I die that I will know what it feels like to be deeply, truly loved.

Until then, I will work my skinny butt off to see my dreams thru.


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## MattB4 (Jan 3, 2016)

I am not a collective individual known as "we". I also only get angry at people that annoy me or dealing with bureaucrats. But being older the passions of youth are mostly a thing of the past. I guess with reduced testosterone and the consequent desire to either have sex with or dominance over others it is hard to get all that worked up anymore. Though women talking on cell phones as they wait to check out at the grocery store, or those that slowly scrawl out a check (search for change) after the clerk has rang every thing up, can still get a momentary rise out of me. 

I would not vote for either Sanders (socialist), Clinton (corrupt), Bush (family history) or Trump (conman). I may just quit voting entirely after doing so for almost 40 years. None of those people would I want to represent me. Not because I am angry but because I can think rationally.


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## Darren (May 10, 2002)

Miss Kay said:


> I still haven't seen how this affects you personally unless you are saying you don't like YOUR insurance. I know we can complain all day about what someone else did but what has it done to you. You, how does it affect you?


You're reading about the trees rather than the forest. The real issue is uncertainty about the future. Life has never been certain. Most recent generations following WW II experienced a boom and sense that things would always be better. It never occurred to many that the government mortgaging the future would have personal implications.

It was only a matter of time that the cycles that affected all great civilizations in history would affect Western civilization.

Change is constant. There will always be change. the difference now is the rapidity that it affects us all. In the past families or individuals could emigrate for better opportunities. In this country it was "Go west, young man." Take a look at Kalifornia now. Are we to move farther west to China so we can still have a factory job?

In the past many felt that college was a sure route to a good livelihood and the ability to support a family. That's no longer true except possibly for STEM students and a few others. 

In the face of growing challenges our government continues to prove itself inept. Examples are numerous. Trust me, we need more money, more programs, more regulations and we'll get it right is the message. The past says no. It won't happen. People can see that for themselves.

We been graced with abundances in the past. Maslow's Hierarchy of Needs is relevant. Because of how well off we've became, some have specialized just like our ancestors long ago began to specialize. Elements of our population have the wherewithal to participate in exercises that do not produce positive outcomes for society. 

That can be compared to inflammation in the body that retards healing. 

I can go on. All of it imparts feelings of uncertainty about the future and detracts from the sense of well being and peace of mind. Endless promises and failures to produce on the part of politicians have ended that spark of hope.

The lie that is Obama lies heavy on the masses. They're uneasy, unhappy and not comfortable with feeling uncertain.

If the economic impacts hadn't affected so many, the anger wouldn't be as obvious. The sad part is there's nothing on the horizon that will better things. The days of wine and roses and even bread and circuses are gone.


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## grandma12703 (Jan 13, 2011)

Miss Kay, I often feel the same way. I choose to see my glass half full instead of half empty. This doesn't mean sometimes I am not afraid but afraid and angry are two different things. Retirement could be close at hand due to freezing a pension plan which would enable us to retire in three years but fear of what health insurance will do may very well change our plans. Who knows? Honestly just the unknown and being unsure of what to expect can make me uneasy but angry, not really.


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## keenataz (Feb 17, 2009)

Laura Zone 5 said:


> Miss Kay I have my days where I am just a wizzed off white girl.
> Sometimes I cry myself to sleep.
> Sometimes I give my .9 the hairy eye.
> Sometimes I lay on the couch for hours and not move........
> ...


First you have a great attitude and many of us could learn from you.

Second, I sincerely hope your dreams come true.


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## City Bound (Jan 24, 2009)

personally, I have been stopped mid sentence when answering questions in sociology and human service classes in college and told that I do not know what I am talking about because I am white and I was born privileged. In one school I was able to get a work grant as were many white, Asian, latino, and black students. I needed that work grant to make ends meet when I was in school. The grant is not free money for doing nothing. You get a job at the school and you can work only as much as the grant has allotted funds. The thing is that you can work strange hours that fit into your class schedule which is great because a working a regular job conflicts with classes and homework. When I went to the next college which was more liberal I had to deal with a black college worker who made it almost impossible for white and Asians to get the grants. The first thing she said to me was "What do YOU need a work grant for?" The "YOU" with racial undertones. She made a nasty expression and used a hostile tone. She seemed to be implying that white are wealthy and did not need grants. When she addressed me as "YOU" what she was really saying was ------. 

20 years ago I got hurt. I was out of work. I didn't want to but I had to go down and try to get on welfare for six months until I was back on my feet. I was the only white person in the waiting room and all the workers were black. I had to sit and be interviewed and grilled for an hour before they gave me assistance. I was treated with suspicion. I was treated with disbelief. The worker did everything she could to find a way to discredit me. In contrast, the black people that came in and sat at the desks near me were given welfare in less then five minutes, seriously. The black people would sit down, the worker would ask why they needed help, the black person would say that they could not find work and then the worker would give them approval. It was that quick and easy. In the time it took to try to discredit me based on my race handfuls of black people where given approval. 

I was physically attacked by a gang of black in high school. They said all kinds of racial things to me. 

An illegal alien crashed a work truck into a pole on my street. The cops came. The driver had no insurance, no license and no legal ID. In the end the cop asked him to get in his truck and see if it still drove. Then the cop told him to just drive away. Te cop told my neighbors and I that it s not worth the paper work because they cant do anything to the illegals anyway. I on the other hand got a $150 ticket for parking in the tail end of a bus stop. I was breaking the la too but since I am a citizen the law applies to me. If I was an illegal, what could they have done.


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## Miss Kay (Mar 31, 2012)

Thank you City bound. I'm sorry for your experience. I'd be pretty put out for sure!


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## City Bound (Jan 24, 2009)

Miss Kay said:


> Thank you City bound. I'm sorry for your experience. I'd be pretty put out for sure!


 You are welcome. That is about as personal as I can get. I have more to share but not in a public forum. 

I am sure others have experiences that are too personal to share also.


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## roadless (Sep 9, 2006)

HDRider said:


> More disgusted than angry...


I learned a long time ago that life wasn't fair.
I try not to waste my energy getting angry about it.
For me, anger isn't a pure emotion anyhow.....it usually masks others and gives me the illusion of power.....I can romp and stomp all I want and not a dang thing changes but I'm spent and exhausted. gre:

I do shake my head in disgust at times though. 

Yet I truly am one of those who try " to be the change that you wish to see in the world"
Fall short daily, but I try.
Don't have control over much else.


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## MO_cows (Aug 14, 2010)

Miss Kay said:


> Exactly Scott. I want to know. I live here on my little ranch and don't see much so I want to hear from all over the nation. So far I've heard the government is criminal and gone rogue. Not saying they haven't but what personal experience do you have with that? Have they come to your house yet and taken any of your rights away etc? I hear about the national debt and yes that is a debt to be paid by every tax payer but I venture to guess some of you on here don't pay tax and may even get the earned income credit. I want to hear from those affected by the national debt personally already. Obamacare - Tell me what this did to you. Did you lose your plan, get made to go part time, just how did this affect you? The false white privilege (by the way I'm white)? Have you been turned down from a job based on your whiteness (if that's even a word) or has anyone said anything to your face about you being responsible for all those things you mentioned? The economy - let's hear it. *Have you lost your job, your home, or what?*
> 
> Thanks for participating in an adult discussion but I'd like to see us bring this home. Tell me your story so its not just talk or a repeat of something you heard on talk radio.


DH lost his job due to the recession. With it went our health insurance. Oh and all the sick time, vacation time he had in the bank? Got screwed out of that. If he had been given a clue they would be shutting down, he would have used it. But hey, no worries, the big guys back at Corp. HQ got a special hearing with the bankruptcy judge to make sure they got their millions in bonuses. Let that sink in a minute. The guys who ran the company out of business, got bonuses, and racked up legal fees on the company's dime to make it happen. The rank and file workers got screwed out of their unused vacation and sick time. Ain't that sweet? 

DH got a new job. Big pay cut, big benefit cut. On call 24/7. But on the other side of the scale, no more long commute and he is learning a new skill set and getting certifications that are very marketable. Whether he can make it pay off before he hits retirement age, still remains to be seen. 

Know a couple people who lost homes from the recession. Know a few more who are still "upside down" on their house from the recession. 

But whether or not it affects me personally, I am ticked off at what is being done to our country.


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## hoddedloki (Nov 14, 2014)

I am angry not because of any single injustice or persecution, but because of a long train of abuses and usurpations that members of the government have afflicted upon me and mine.

1. I no longer have a right to free speech, speech is now allowed, unless it is deemed offensive or hate speech by the police.
2. My right to defend myself is hemmed in by writ and regulation whose sole cause is to deprive me of such right.
3. Armed representatives of the government may seize possession of my house and lands without trial or recourse, to defend the 'people.'
4. My goods and chattel may be seized with no warning, and will not be returned unless I can prove them innocent of crime.
5. I am not safe from scurrilous prosecution by representatives of the government, and must waste large sums defending myself from such.
6. My right to a trial by a jury of my peers has been abridged, as the law is no longer comprehensible to my peers, nor is it any longer designed to allow citizens to be law-abiding.
7. When accused of wrongdoing by government agents, I am no longer allowed a jury trial in court, but am relegated to summary judgement by those accusing me.
8. The government has seen fit to use punitive fines to make compulsory the following of regulations that have not the force of law.
9. The government has chosen to act in the belief that any action or right not expressly granted is forbidden, and must be regulated.
10. The federal government has chosen to repudiate the principles of federalism, and has removed authority and power from those I chose to represent me.

For these and many other grievances, I am angered at my government, and am not pleased that it has chosen to increase its own power at the expense of me and mine. I pray that these grievances can be addressed peacefully, and through a process that does not destroy this country, but am losing faith in those who claim to embody 'change we can believe in.'

Loki


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

Laura Zone 5 said:


> Miss Kay I have my days where I am just a wizzed off white girl.
> Sometimes I cry myself to sleep.
> Sometimes I give my .9 the hairy eye.
> Sometimes I lay on the couch for hours and not move........
> ...


Good luck to you. You'll make it.


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## Shine (Feb 19, 2011)

I'll go with disgusted also. I miss the days when the majority of men and women were honorable. All I can do is to smile and trust in the One that called me.


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## JoePa (Mar 14, 2013)

I'm very angry because the America that I was proud of and loved no longer exists - the progressive liberals and stupid electorate have ruined it to a point where I have very little in common with it -


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

JoePa said:


> I'm very angry because the America that I was proud of and loved no longer exists - the progressive liberals and stupid electorate have ruined it to a point where I have very little in common with it -





Shine said:


> I'll go with disgusted also. I miss the days when the majority of men and women were honorable. All I can do is to smile and trust in the One that called me.


It's always someone else's fault, huh?


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## Shine (Feb 19, 2011)

Bearfootfarm said:


> It's always someone else's fault, huh?


Please - If you want to accuse someone of something - please do so.


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

Shine said:


> Please - If you want to accuse someone of something - please do so.


There are already enough accusations being tossed around by all these "angry" people. 

I just made an observation


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## Shine (Feb 19, 2011)

I try to make my world better for myself and others when I can but there's always those that will try to drag you back down into the mud so that you're dirty too...


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## scooter (Mar 31, 2008)

Dishonest politicians,the growing threat of terrorism, corruption, the attacks on Christianity, invasion of privacy, high taxes, loss of jobs because companies are outsourcing, new laws when they won't enforce the laws that we already have, the constant threat of gun control.
These are just a few of the many things that are making people angry.


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## Laura Zone 5 (Jan 13, 2010)

Shine said:


> I try to make my world better for myself and others when I can but there's always those that will try to drag you back down into the mud so that you're dirty too...


This is a great discussion......don't entertain thread wreckers.
Just let them splash in with their 1-2 line insult and ignore it......
Stray Cat Syndrome.
If you feed it, you'll never get rid of it.


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## Farmerga (May 6, 2010)

Miss Kay said:


> Exactly Scott. I want to know. I live here on my little ranch and don't see much so I want to hear from all over the nation. So far I've heard the government is criminal and gone rogue. Not saying they haven't but what personal experience do you have with that? Have they come to your house yet and taken any of your rights away etc? I hear about the national debt and yes that is a debt to be paid by every tax payer but I venture to guess some of you on here don't pay tax and may even get the earned income credit. I want to hear from those affected by the national debt personally already. Obamacare - Tell me what this did to you. Did you lose your plan, get made to go part time, just how did this affect you? The false white privilege (by the way I'm white)? Have you been turned down from a job based on your whiteness (if that's even a word) or has anyone said anything to your face about you being responsible for all those things you mentioned? The economy - let's hear it. Have you lost your job, your home, or what?
> 
> Thanks for participating in an adult discussion but I'd like to see us bring this home. Tell me your story so its not just talk or a repeat of something you heard on talk radio.


*Have they come to your house yet and taken any of your rights away?*

With every over the top regulation, they take my rights. With every "gun control" measure, they take my rights. Every time they file away a conversation I have (meta data) they take my rights. 

*I hear about the national debt and yes that is a debt to be paid by every tax payer but I venture to guess some of you on here don't pay tax and may even get the earned income credit. *

Personally, I have never received the earned income credit. I am a net tax payer. My money is taken to pay interest on the debt. Any affect that the debt has on inflation, directly affects me, and everyone else. 

*Obamacare - Tell me what this did to you.*

For the first time, in history, I am FORCED to purchase a product, from a private company, or face a fine, err, tax. 

*The false white privilege (by the way I'm white)? Have you been turned down from a job based on your whiteness *

I am not all white, but, I certainly do look white. I have been told not to bother applying for a job, or Vet school because of my apparent race and the fact that I am male. As far as not getting a job because of it? There have been cases where I interviewed for jobs and a person with more melanin got it. Is it because of the added melanin, or, were they more qualified? Can't say.


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## Tricky Grama (Oct 7, 2006)

City Bound said:


> I am angry because the federal government, regardless of which party is in power, acts like a rogue government that does not work in the interest of the American people, regardless of the race, sex, age, or political orientation of the American citizens.
> 
> I am angry about the double standards that continue to grow and fester in America.
> 
> ...


Post of the decade award.


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## Tricky Grama (Oct 7, 2006)

City Bound said:


> You are welcome. That is about as personal as I can get. I have more to share but not in a public forum.
> 
> I am sure others have experiences that are too personal to share also.


Had similar experience when I was in college-later in life-w/3 kids going thru a divorce. Had 3 part-time jobs but it was my last year & just wouldn't be able to make ends meet so went for food stamps. Grilled is the word.  Not to mention when I used them! Wow. everyone's judgmental and UGLY to you.
But I didn't give up & got the degree & paid back into the system many Xs over. I've paid more income tax some years than a lot of folks make in a year. 

To the "angry about what" part, I think its mostly the ObummerUNcare-w/6 mill losing ins over it, lots are still angry-DH, for 1. Not only that, its the lies about it all thru the process. Most of us won't get over that til its repealed.
Many are angy b/c the terrorists attack in CA could be anywhere in the US. "Coming to a town near you". job of the gov't is to protect us. Not being done.


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## Laura Zone 5 (Jan 13, 2010)

My FORCED health care is 200.00 a month.
I have a 3,000.00 deductible that has to be met BEFORE one dime is paid by the insurance.
That's 5400.00 a year.
I make 2.13 an hour + tips.
In 2015, health care was 1/5 of my annual income.

IF I don't carry health care, I am FORCED to pay a 3% penalty ($750.00). 
IF I stayed healthy the year of 2015, 750.00 is EXTORTED from me by my government.....because I didn't play by their UnConstitutional rules.

IF I don't pay that 750.00 the government FREEZES my liquor license, which means I CANNOT WORK......because I have no college education and waiting tables is the thing I know how to do,and do well enough to keep a roof over my head. 

I'm mad as hades and I'm not gonna take it anymore.......lol


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## poppy (Feb 21, 2008)

Farmerga said:


> *Have they come to your house yet and taken any of your rights away?*
> 
> With every over the top regulation, they take my rights. With every "gun control" measure, they take my rights. Every time they file away a conversation I have (meta data) they take my rights.
> 
> ...


Well said. You said it all. I am tired of an ever growing government that wants to regulate everything I do. They even tell me what kind of light bulbs I can and can't buy. Stop treating me like a 6 year old. I'm 68 and able to make decisions for myself.


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## BohemianWaxwing (Sep 13, 2014)

I'm not mad. It's bad for my blood pressure.

But these last few years I've felt plenty of sting from the runaway government overreach. We're saving diligently to have a small homestead built and paid off and the ridiculous sums I pay in taxes every year are a major set back to that savings. We have lived without insurance for six years, paying for anything that came up out of pocket in order to save for the homestead. Since the mandate kicked in, we joined a health share to avoid what, for me, would be a large penalty, so we pay over $400 a month for something that doesn't do us a lick of good since we still pay for routine care ourselves. 

I console myself when I'm tempted to be despondent with the fact that once the homestead is finished I will at least stop contributing my hard earned tax dollars to the insanity that our government has become. I can live very comfortably on less than is taxable.


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## Laura Zone 5 (Jan 13, 2010)

I'm pretty sick of the 'minority minded' special interest groups forcing the 'majority minded' to accept their demands.


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## poppy (Feb 21, 2008)

BohemianWaxwing said:


> I'm not mad. It's bad for my blood pressure.
> 
> But these last few years I've felt plenty of sting from the runaway government overreach. We're saving diligently to have a small homestead built and paid off and the ridiculous sums I pay in taxes every year are a major set back to that savings. We have lived without insurance for six years, paying for anything that came up out of pocket in order to save for the homestead. Since the mandate kicked in, we joined a health share to avoid what, for me, would be a large penalty, so we pay over $400 a month for something that doesn't do us a lick of good since we still pay for routine care ourselves.
> 
> I console myself when I'm tempted to be despondent with the fact that once the homestead is finished I will at least stop contributing my hard earned tax dollars to the insanity that our government has become. I can live very comfortably on less than is taxable.


You bring up a major reason people are angry. People like you who try to do what's right and be responsible are punished by government while the limp, lame, and lazy get those tax dollars taken from you. If you complain, you are called selfish and greedy. Government no longer works for the common person. It's all about supporting immigrants, legal and otherwise.


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## MattB4 (Jan 3, 2016)

One thing I see mentioned all the time is being angry at "government". Seems ridiculous to be angry at such a nebulous thing here in the US. It is not like there is a Dictator, King or even a Emperor that you can point to. Are you mad at your Home Owners Association? The Condo Board, the local building department, the dog catcher, the Mayor, The State Senator, Governor, Congress, The President, or just what? Lumping it all together as the government is a bit like saying you are angry at people. Because that is what the government in the US is. 

Certainly people in our government are bureaucratic, crooked, power seeking, stupid, dishonorable, and a host of other negatives. But there is also the good ones that fight the fires, protect the country from foreign invaders, provide standards for weight and measures, keep the health, enforce the laws, educate the populous and a host of other necessary functions for a smooth running society. 

Saying you are angry at the government is a waste of emotion. If for some reason a new government was established you soon would be angry at them. Just after our Constitution was approved the Whiskey Rebellion happened. Read about it. People are a fractious lot.


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## Farmerga (May 6, 2010)

MattB4 said:


> One thing I see mentioned all the time is being angry at "government". Seems ridiculous to be angry at such a nebulous thing here in the US. It is not like there is a Dictator, King or even a Emperor that you can point to. Are you mad at your Home Owners Association? The Condo Board, the local building department, the dog catcher, the Mayor, The State Senator, Governor, Congress, The President, or just what? Lumping it all together as the government is a bit like saying you are angry at people. Because that is what the government in the US is.
> 
> Certainly people in our government are bureaucratic, crooked, power seeking, stupid, dishonorable, and a host of other negatives. But there is also the good ones that fight the fires, protect the country from foreign invaders, provide standards for weight and measures, keep the health, enforce the laws, educate the populous and a host of other necessary functions for a smooth running society.
> 
> Saying you are angry at the government is a waste of emotion. If for some reason a new government was established you soon would be angry at them. Just after our Constitution was approved the Whiskey Rebellion happened. Read about it. People are a fractious lot.


 I am not angry at the Government per se, I am angry because the Government is corrupt and growing more corrupt. I am not angry when the government does what it should, I am angry when the government does what it shouldn't, which is, sad to say, most of the time, lately.


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## MO_cows (Aug 14, 2010)

Usually when I reference "government" it means the feds. But the state has done its share, too. 

A few years ago, MO thumbed its nose at the "RealID" act. Now the deadlines are here and soon I will have to get a passport to board a plane. The really ridiculous part? I had to provide my birth certificate and marriage license to get my now "unacceptable" MO drivers license. So what documents are needed for the passport? THE EXACT SAME ONES. With $150 more in fees and weeks to wait for processing. It's crazy. Makes no sense whatsoever. 

So maybe the root of it is, people feel helpless against all the garbage that gets dumped on them these days. Feel like nobody is on their side. Frustrated, disgusted, it all turns into anger if not abated.


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## no really (Aug 7, 2013)

I'm to busy to be angry. Trying to keep my head above water, make sure to prepare for retirement, don't get sick or hurt cause it is to dang expensive and try to figure out all the new laws and regulations that will effect my life. :surrender:


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## MattB4 (Jan 3, 2016)

I have often though that instead of electing popular people that we should elect those we hate. That way we are not disappointed later by them. We might even be surprised when they are not as bad as we initially thought. 

To misquote Will Rogers, _"I have never met a politician I could not hate given enough time"_.


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## Cornhusker (Mar 20, 2003)

I am angry at the American voters who put us in this position.
Some people would vote for Hitler if he had a "D" or "R" behind his name.
I guess I'm angry about the 2 party system and the way they play us for fools.


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## Miss Kay (Mar 31, 2012)

Very interesting. I love my little window into the rest of the world!


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## susieneddy (Sep 2, 2011)

Laura Zone 5 said:


> My FORCED health care is 200.00 a month.
> I have a 3,000.00 deductible that has to be met BEFORE one dime is paid by the insurance.
> That's 5400.00 a year.
> I make 2.13 an hour + tips.
> ...


Not sure what you are complaining about as far as health insurance. 

The company I worked for split the health insurance cost with each employee. I was paying $ 360.00 a month for my share. So that made the total cost $ 720.00 a month. My deductible was $ 5000.00 a year. This was way before Obamacare came out. 
Go forward a few years when the company stopped offering health insurance because both owners were old enough to get on Medicare and I had to get my own health insurance. I was paying at first $ 409.00 with a $ 5000.00 deductible, the next year it jumped to $ 499.00 a month with a $ 5500.00 deductible and last year it jumped to $ 719.00 a month with a $ 6000.00 deductible. Luckily for me i was able to get on Medicare last year.

I noticed you didn't mention your income from tips. Since my daughter is a bartender I know how much money can be made in tips especially when the customer leaves cash.


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## Laura Zone 5 (Jan 13, 2010)

Cornhusker said:


> I am angry at the American voters who put us in this position.
> Some people would vote for Hitler if he had a "D" or "R" behind his name.
> I guess I'm angry about the 2 party system and the way they play us for fools.


I wish our votes actually mattered....


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## City Bound (Jan 24, 2009)

Miss Kay said:


> Very interesting. I love my little window into the rest of the world!


Glad our anguish is amusing to you. Are you enjoying popcorn while you read this?


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## wr (Aug 10, 2003)

City Bound said:


> Glad our anguish is amusing to you. Are you enjoying popcorn while you read this?


Miss Kay asked a question and her responses seem to indicate interest and empathy toward those that have responded so why such a snippy response?


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## City Bound (Jan 24, 2009)

wr said:


> Miss Kay asked a question and her responses seem to indicate interest and empathy toward those that have responded so why such a snippy response?


The response seemed a bit trite and callused in light of the painful personal experiences people have been sharing here.


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## Laura Zone 5 (Jan 13, 2010)

susieneddy said:


> Not sure what you are complaining about as far as health insurance.
> 
> The company I worked for split the health insurance cost with each employee. I was paying $ 360.00 a month for my share. So that made the total cost $ 720.00 a month. My deductible was $ 5000.00 a year. This was way before Obamacare came out.


You are saying that the company you worked for FORCED you to pay 720.00 a month to cover YOU ALONE and pay a 5K deductible? You are saying this companies policy is that you MUST participate in their insurance, and for you only it was 720.00 a month PLUS a 5K dedut. a year?



> Go forward a few years when the company stopped offering health insurance because both owners were old enough to get on Medicare and I had to get my own health insurance. I was paying at first $ 409.00 with a $ 5000.00 deductible, the next year it jumped to $ 499.00 a month with a $ 5500.00 deductible and last year it jumped to $ 719.00 a month with a $ 6000.00 deductible. Luckily for me i was able to get on Medicare last year.


Were you 'forced' to get insurance, and fined if you didn't?



> I noticed you didn't mention your income from tips. Since my daughter is a bartender I know how much money can be made in tips especially when the customer leaves cash.


I claim everything I make......
1. because it's honest and I believe in sowing and reaping 
2. if I want to buy a car / house, etc. they look at W2's. If you don't claim it, they don't recognize it. 
3. if I had to file a workmans comp claim, my benefits are based upon my claimed income.......

I *did *mention how much I made last year.......


> That's 5400.00 a year.
> I make 2.13 an hour + tips.
> In 2015, health care was 1/5 of my annual income.


SO if 5400 is 1/5 of my income, multiply 5400 by 5.
27,000.......which is about 3500 MORE than what I actually made last year.

So I stand corrected, FORCED health care cost me ALMOST 1/4th or 25% of my annual income........before taxes.


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## City Bound (Jan 24, 2009)

wr said:


> Miss Kay asked a question and her responses seem to indicate interest and empathy toward those that have responded so why such a snippy response?


 Empathy? I did not read empathy in that response. Seemed more like curiosity at best.

If I am wrong, I apologize. That is how it seemed though.


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## City Bound (Jan 24, 2009)

Laura Zone 5 said:


> So I stand corrected, FORCED health care cost me ALMOST 1/4th or 25% of my annual income........before taxes.


 Add in the 25% you pay in income tax, SS, and local taxes, plus sales tax and you are out half your money.


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## Laura Zone 5 (Jan 13, 2010)

I pay:
SS tax (something I will never see; but the lazy able bodied and illegals are enjoying now)
Medicare tax (something I will never see; but the lazy able bodied and illegals are enjoying now)
Fed Inc Tax 
Pri-State Tax
Pri-Local Tax

When I get my pay stub (because I do NOT receive money on my check....it gets eaten in taxes) Friday, I will take a picture of it, and post it........


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## Cornhusker (Mar 20, 2003)

Laura Zone 5 said:


> You are saying that the company you worked for FORCED you to pay 720.00 a month to cover YOU ALONE and pay a 5K deductible? You are saying this companies policy is that you MUST participate in their insurance, and for you only it was 720.00 a month PLUS a 5K dedut. a year?
> 
> Were you 'forced' to get insurance, and fined if you didn't?
> 
> ...


But Obama calls his boondoggle "The _Affordable _Care Act".
I guess he was kidding.


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## Laura Zone 5 (Jan 13, 2010)

Well his jokes are not funny.
He should quit his day job.


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## City Bound (Jan 24, 2009)

In the UK 15% of you income is taken for NHS. You are paying more for health care on Obama care then people with socialized medicine in the UK. Hell, if we have to chose between two evils socialized medicine like the UK is cheaper and you get more for your buck. The service may stink and it may be going bankrupt but it is more affordable.


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## Farmerga (May 6, 2010)

City Bound said:


> In the UK 15% of you income is taken for NHS. You are paying more for health care on Obama care then people with socialized medicine in the UK. Hell, if we have to chose between two evils socialized medicine like the UK is cheaper and you get more for your buck. The service may stink and it may be going bankrupt but it is more affordable.


 
I am convinced that is how they are going to get the suckers (and the rest of us, by default). They will come out in a few years and say "well, we really screwed that up, I guess we will just have to completely take over the healthcare system, you know, to save money. What is mind numbingly true is that the same idiots, who cheered on Obamacare, will cheer on the next Federal boondoggle created to replace this failed boondoggle. 

The Federal government was not able to make money while running an establishment that sold Sex and Booze!!! Do you really believe they are capable of running anything efficiently?


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## coolrunnin (Aug 28, 2010)

Laura Zone 5 said:


> So I stand corrected, FORCED health care cost me ALMOST 1/4th or 25% of my annual income........before taxes.


You need to check out healthsherpa, if your income stated is correct you are way overpaying on your insurance policy.


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## no really (Aug 7, 2013)

coolrunnin said:


> You need to check out healthsherpa, if your income stated is correct you are way overpaying on your insurance policy.


Those prices don't seem all that affordable. Plugged in 25,000 yearly income, Didnt qaulify for any help. Cheapest price 474 monthly with a deductible of 6750.


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## Raymond673 (Jan 1, 2016)

I used to be angry, but you know what? I did something about it and moved the heck out of the stinking US. I now live a wonderful, peaceful, tranquil, quiet, regulation free, low tax sort of life here in Panama. 

All you who are angry, my best advise is to read a really good book titled " Who Moved My Cheese!" 

You can get it here -- http://tinyurl.com/Ray-Who-Moved-My-Cheese

Why be angry when you can do something about it? 

Don't like the messed up situation ya'll have? Get the heck out of Dodge and come on down where the weather is great and the people are wonderful.

Cheers


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## Scott SW Ohio (Sep 20, 2003)

Raymond673 said:


> I used to be angry, but you know what? I did something about it and moved the heck out of the stinking US. I now live a wonderful, peaceful, tranquil, quiet, regulation free, low tax sort of life here in Panama.
> 
> All you who are angry, my best advise is to read a really good book titled " Who Moved My Cheese!"
> 
> ...


Raymond, I have read a bit about Panama as a retirement destination and it sounds very nice. I'm glad you are happy there. My brother is retiring a year from now and is actively researching overseas possibilities. I know Panama is on his radar - I wouldn't want to move out of the USA myself, but it would be nice to have someone to visit down there in the winter!


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## coolrunnin (Aug 28, 2010)

no really said:


> Those prices don't seem all that affordable. Plugged in 25,000 yearly income, Didnt qaulify for any help. Cheapest price 474 monthly with a deductible of 6750.


Based on her numbers in her state she's way overpaying. I have no dog in the hunt my insurance is company paid.
Also that was based on her smoking I believe she is among us sinners...


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## no really (Aug 7, 2013)

coolrunnin said:


> Based on her numbers in her state she's way overpaying. I have no dog in the hunt my insurance is company paid.
> Also that was based on her smoking I believe she is among us sinners...


Ok, I took my numbers from my county area, using median income. Now I know why there are quite a few uninsured there.


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## MO_cows (Aug 14, 2010)

Raymond673 said:


> I used to be angry, but you know what? I did something about it and moved the heck out of the stinking US. I now live a wonderful, peaceful, tranquil, quiet, regulation free, low tax sort of life here in Panama.
> 
> All you who are angry, my best advise is to read a really good book titled " Who Moved My Cheese!"
> 
> ...


Glad it has worked out so well for you, but if all 300 million from the U.S. moved down there, it wouldn't be quite the same! Also I don't think the ultimate answer to our problems is bug out like rats abandoning a sinking ship. For some people, it's the right move but it's not for everyone. Some people could never make the adjustment. And somebody has to stay and try to make things change for the better.


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## Nevada (Sep 9, 2004)

no really said:


> Those prices don't seem all that affordable. Plugged in 25,000 yearly income, Didnt qaulify for any help. Cheapest price 474 monthly with a deductible of 6750.


That's because your state didn't expand Medicaid. Talk to your state government about that.


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## no really (Aug 7, 2013)

Nevada said:


> That's because your state didn't expand Medicaid. Talk to your state government about that.


Medicaid with 25,000 income? Actually I kinda feel it's more the government supporting their pet insurers and vice versa. Symbiotic relationship.


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## Nevada (Sep 9, 2004)

no really said:


> Medicaid with 25,000 income?


Depends on your household size.


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## no really (Aug 7, 2013)

Nevada said:


> Depends on your household size.


The figures I got from healthsherpa were for one in the household.


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## Cornhusker (Mar 20, 2003)

You guys talk like Obamacare was actually intended to help people.
Remember, it's about control and the progressive agenda.
It's a scam


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## wr (Aug 10, 2003)

Cornhusker said:


> I am angry at the American voters who put us in this position.
> Some people would vote for Hitler if he had a "D" or "R" behind his name.
> I guess I'm angry about the 2 party system and the way they play us for fools.


The two party system may not be as bad as you'd think. More parties just means the same number of votes is divided a few more times.


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## Nevada (Sep 9, 2004)

no really said:


> The figures I got from healthsherpa were for one in the household.


According to healthsherpa.com, a single 40 year old person in Midland, TX making $25K/year, whose employer doesn't offer health insurance, qualifies for a $149/month health insurance subsidy.

https://www.healthsherpa.com/find-p...ze=1&income=25000&cs=premium&year=2016&page=1

If you purchase a silver plan then you also qualify for a Cost Sharing Reduction, where the government pays part of your copays.

For $144/month you can have an HMO (which doesn't have deductibles for most services) where you see a doc for $25, a specialist for $50, and have $20 generic prescriptions.

FirstCare Health Plans, Silver Coinsurance HMO
https://www.healthsherpa.com/find-p...25000&mf=[silver]&cs=premium&year=2016&page=1


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## City Bound (Jan 24, 2009)

Farmerga said:


> I am convinced that is how they are going to get the suckers (and the rest of us, by default). They will come out in a few years and say "well, we really screwed that up, I guess we will just have to completely take over the healthcare system, you know, to save money. What is mind numbingly true is that the same idiots, who cheered on Obamacare, will cheer on the next Federal boondoggle created to replace this failed boondoggle.
> 
> The Federal government was not able to make money while running an establishment that sold Sex and Booze!!! Do you really believe they are capable of running anything efficiently?


 They ran off track beating into the ground also. They could not make a profit running a gambling establishment. 

I was not indorsing universal health care. Just saying that if things are going to get as bas as many think they will then social medicine is better then the poverty of Obama care.


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## no really (Aug 7, 2013)

Having trouble copy and paste. Small tablet.


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## Nevada (Sep 9, 2004)

no really said:


> Having trouble copy and paste. Small tablet.


Something's wrong. I'm still seeing a subsidy in your zip code.

Zip: 79848 
Household: Just you
Age: 40
Income: 25,000

Still shows a subsidy of $157.


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## City Bound (Jan 24, 2009)

That link you gave. The average is about 5 grand a year. One even had a 20% co pay after the deductible of $3,400 was paid.


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## Nevada (Sep 9, 2004)

City Bound said:


> That link you gave. The average is about 5 grand a year. One even had a 20% co pay after the deductible of $3,400 was paid.


If you're healthy, your best bet is to select an HMO that doesn't have a deductible for most services. Many HMOs don't have copays for things like office visits, specialist visits, prescriptions, or lab work.


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## Raymond673 (Jan 1, 2016)

Scott SW Ohio said:


> Raymond, I have read a bit about Panama as a retirement destination and it sounds very nice. I'm glad you are happy there. My brother is retiring a year from now and is actively researching overseas possibilities. I know Panama is on his radar - I wouldn't want to move out of the USA myself, but it would be nice to have someone to visit down there in the winter!


FYI... we are not retired. We just bailed on the oppressive / depressing US. We are building a place where our family can come to and have a better life as well. In fact my son arrives tomorrow. :hobbyhors

Cheers


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## City Bound (Jan 24, 2009)

Raymond673 said:


> FYI... we are not retired. We just bailed on the oppressive / depressing US. We are building a place where our family can come to and have a better life as well. In fact my son arrives tomorrow. :hobbyhors
> 
> Cheers


 I hope it works out for you. I really do. Learn from our mistakes and try to make a better society. Remember that over time the social weeds will sprout, grow, and try to proliferate. If the people remember to weed the garden of their freedom they wont have the mess we have here.
Try to keep a check on greed also. A greedy society will eventually consume itself and cave in onto itself. Greed seriously damaged our society. people sold their liberty for luxuries.


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## Scott SW Ohio (Sep 20, 2003)

Raymond673 said:


> FYI... we are not retired. We just bailed on the oppressive / depressing US. We are building a place where our family can come to and have a better life as well. In fact my son arrives tomorrow. :hobbyhors
> 
> Cheers


Do I remember that Panama has government-sponsored universal healthcare? If so do you have access to it as a non-citizen? Are people there generally happy with the health care system?


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## Laura Zone 5 (Jan 13, 2010)

coolrunnin said:


> You need to check out healthsherpa, if your income stated is correct you are way overpaying on your insurance policy.


It's tricky getting heath care at the right cost when you are a tipped employee. 
If I say I make 25,000 a year, then the amount they pay in is X
If I have a good year, and make 30,000, then I OWE the marketplace money because the amount they paid in was based upon 25 K.

Now, if I say I make 30K a year, but only make 25K, then I get a refund.
So if I don't want to end up OWING a crapton of money at the end of the year, I have to say how much I think I will make plus a few extra thousand, to CMA.

The whole point is, I have, no choice.
I am forced to buy a product, and when I don't comply, I am forced to pay for a product that I never possessed or used.......
At least the Mafia provided 'protection' for the money they extorted out of shop owners.......sheeeesh.


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## coolrunnin (Aug 28, 2010)

Laura Zone 5 said:


> It's tricky getting heath care at the right cost when you are a tipped employee.
> If I say I make 25,000 a year, then the amount they pay in is X
> If I have a good year, and make 30,000, then I OWE the marketplace money because the amount they paid in was based upon 25 K.
> 
> ...


Just not seeing huge swings in income. My wife gets annual bonuses that swing as much as your talking about.


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## Laura Zone 5 (Jan 13, 2010)

coolrunnin said:


> Just not seeing huge swings in income. My wife gets annual bonuses that swing as much as your talking about.



Not sure I understand........

When I called the marketplace to sign up, they quoted me my policy at the income level of 25k and 30k (different prices).
Told me that if I 'claim' 25 K and got the policy for X dollars a month, BUT I make 30K, I will OWE the marketplace X dollars (all at once) when I file my taxes.

On the converse, if I claim 30K a year, my policy costs X and if I only make 25K, they REFUND me the difference between a 30K policy and a 25K [email protected] 30K a year

For my zipcode, 50 yo woman (only), non smoker, @ 30 K a year income, 207.00 credit from the government

Same zip, age, sex, etc. @ 25 K a year, 272.00 credit from the government.

@ 20 K a year, 332.00 credit.

NOW if I have a good year, and make 35K?
My credit from the government is 135.00.

35K = 135.00 credit from the man
30K = 207.00 credit from the man
25K = 272.00 credit from the man
20K = 332.00 credit from the man

From 20-25 K 60.00 difference 60 x 12 = 720 a year
From 25-30 K 65.00 difference 65 x 12 = 780 a year
From 30-35 K 72.00 difference 72 x 12 = 864 a year

All of those numbers came from the marketplace.............

AND if I claim I make 25, and I make 30, I owe The Man, 780.00 at tax time because HE WILL TAKE IT if I have a refund or HE WILL BILL ME and if I don't pay it I lose my liquor license (because when you are behind in taxes in IN they freeze ALL licenses) and if I lose my liquor license, then I lose my job.........

Thanks obama


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## Tricky Grama (Oct 7, 2006)

Laura Zone 5 said:


> Well his jokes are not funny.
> He should quit his day job.


Post of the day award.


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## oneraddad (Jul 20, 2010)

Laura Zone 5 said:


> Not sure I understand........
> 
> When I called the marketplace to sign up, they quoted me my policy at the income level of 25k and 30k (different prices).
> Told me that if I 'claim' 25 K and got the policy for X dollars a month, BUT I make 30K, I will OWE the marketplace X dollars (all at once) when I file my taxes.
> ...



I thought you made a very comfortable $50,000 a year ?


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## Laura Zone 5 (Jan 13, 2010)

I have in the past, that is not the case for 2015........
The POINT is this: Forced health care is horse manure.
Ironic I am the only one you choose to pop off your one line.......


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## Laura Zone 5 (Jan 13, 2010)

Miss Kay said:


> I keep hearing that both Trump and Sanders are tapping in on the anger of the general public. It appears both sides are equally angry so this is not a democratic or Republican thing (save the political arguments for the politics page). *So, are you angry and if so why.* Try to be specific and personal instead of basing it on something you saw on TV or heard someone else say.
> 
> As for me, I'm retired so unemployment and wages are not really something I lose sleep over. I'm not a minority so I'm not afraid of being shot by a cop. Heck, I've never even been arrested so no anger there. I have good insurance that is affordable so no anger there either, although I would certainly freak out if I didn't have that. Around here, prices seem to be holding so not worried about inflation. I'm enjoying the cheap gas prices so not angry about that. My son is not in the military and so far I haven't seen any Muslims around here so I'm not that afraid of being the target of a terrorist attack. I'm in Texas where everyone has a gun (or 10) but I've not been shot at yet so no anger there. I'm just a few miles from the border with Mexico but It hasn't had a negative affect on my life yet other than high car insurance. OK, maybe I could get angry about my car insurance.
> 
> I'm not so naÃ¯ve to think that everyone shares my situation and I do feel for those with struggles. So, I guess I'm throwing the question out there to see what it really is like for my fellow Americans and *how you are struggling and what is making you so angry? Care to share?*


Let's not lose sight of the OP.......


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## Farmerga (May 6, 2010)

Nevada said:


> Something's wrong. I'm still seeing a subsidy in your zip code.
> 
> Zip: 79848
> Household: Just you
> ...


 What about those who don't want a government handout, yet, are still forced to buy a product from a private company, just for existing?


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## Cornhusker (Mar 20, 2003)

Farmerga said:


> What about those who don't want a government handout, yet, are still forced to buy a product from a private company, just for existing?


You can't argue with Obama fans.
The just do what he tells them and they like it


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## Nevada (Sep 9, 2004)

Farmerga said:


> What about those who don't want a government handout, yet, are still forced to buy a product from a private company, just for existing?


If you're suggesting that a single payer system would work a lot better, I agree.


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## Farmerga (May 6, 2010)

Nevada said:


> If you're suggesting that a single payer system would work a lot better, I agree.


 That is still a government handout. Why not, by not interfering, allow adults to be adults and make their own way, in this world? It simply is not a role of government to take care of our everyday needs. It cheapens us.


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## Nevada (Sep 9, 2004)

Farmerga said:


> That is still a government handout. Why not, by not interfering, allow adults to be adults and make their own way, in this world? It simply is not a role of government to take care of our everyday needs. It cheapens us.


Medical costs have reached a point where medical care isn't affordable to most Americans without some kind of government intervention. Either the government gets involved, or a huge number of Americans go without proper medical care.


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## Cornhusker (Mar 20, 2003)

Nevada said:


> Medical costs have reached a point where medical care isn't affordable to most Americans without some kind of government intervention. Either the government gets involved, or a huge number of Americans go without proper medical care.


Too bad Obama missed his chance to actually help.
He chose corruption and politics instead.
But hey, I bet his handlers made some good money.


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## Farmerga (May 6, 2010)

Nevada said:


> Medical costs have reached a point where medical care isn't affordable to most Americans without some kind of government intervention. Either the government gets involved, or a huge number of Americans go without proper medical care.


 That is largely bull crap. In a pure market economy, supply and demand would be the overriding force that dictate medical costs. Look at the various eye surgeries, and elective plastic surgery. Two forms of medical care that are not paid by government, or, insurance, and we have seen the price of them plummet. How would the medical profession long survive if they priced themselves out of the market? Not long. 

No, this is a prime example of the government creating a problem, then swooping in to "fix" said problem. Many fall for it, I do not. 

As long as the industry is not usurped by the Federal government, the almost universal trend is towards more affordable options. Take a look at computers and cell phones.


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## Nevada (Sep 9, 2004)

How do you suggest that we make medical care available to everyone?


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## Farmerga (May 6, 2010)

Nevada said:


> How do you suggest that we make medical care available to everyone?


 It is and has been for most of our countries history.


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## Nevada (Sep 9, 2004)

Farmerga said:


> As long as the industry is not usurped by the Federal government, the almost universal trend is towards more affordable options.


Is that what we saw before Obamacare?


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## Nevada (Sep 9, 2004)

Farmerga said:


> It is and has been for most of our countries history.


If someone without means is diagnosed with cancer, where do you suggest he go to get radiation or chemo? The ER doesn't do that sort of thing.


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## Farmerga (May 6, 2010)

Nevada said:


> If someone without means is diagnosed with cancer, where do you suggest he go to get radiation or chemo? The ER doesn't do that sort of thing.


 I have given a lot of money to hospitals that provide such medical care for those who cannot afford it.


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## Farmerga (May 6, 2010)

Nevada said:


> Is that what we saw before Obamacare?



You actually see Obamacare as the beginning of the takeover of the medical industry? That is cute. :umno:
The Federal government has been neck deep in the medical industry since the Great Depression.


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## Nevada (Sep 9, 2004)

Farmerga said:


> I have given a lot of money to hospitals that provide such medical care for those who cannot afford it.


So, you don't really know where such a cancer patient might go for care.

What about heart disease. Say someone without means has a massive heart attack and gets bypass surgery. Where does he go for follow-up care visits with a cardiologist?


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## Farmerga (May 6, 2010)

Nevada said:


> So, you don't really know where such a cancer patient might go for care.
> 
> What about heart disease. Say someone without means has a massive heart attack and gets bypass surgery. Where does he go for follow-up care visits with a cardiologist?


 They can start here: http://www.livestrong.org/we-can-he...istance/health-care-assistance-for-uninsured/

Or, here is a clearinghouse of medical charities that may be able to help:

http://www.hmr.org/home/

True, without government interference, it would be much easier for the poor to get the help they need, but, until that glorious day, we must work within the broken system that we have.


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## City Bound (Jan 24, 2009)

Farmerga said:


> That is largely bull crap. In a pure market economy, supply and demand would be the overriding force that dictate medical costs. Look at the various eye surgeries, and elective plastic surgery. Two forms of medical care that are not paid by government, or, insurance, and we have seen the price of them plummet. How would the medical profession long survive if they priced themselves out of the market? Not long.
> 
> No, this is a prime example of the government creating a problem, then swooping in to "fix" said problem. Many fall for it, I do not.
> 
> As long as the industry is not usurped by the Federal government, the almost universal trend is towards more affordable options. Take a look at computers and cell phones.


 
I agree. THe markets will always adjust if it has to. The market will find its own way to survive. 

Does the government let people buy into Medicaid? If people could pay $150 a month for Medicaid that would be nice. People could get basic Medicaid assistance and the gov could raise money to put back into the system.


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## FarmerKat (Jul 3, 2014)

Going back to the OP ... 

I would not say I am angry but I am worried. I have kids, they are 5 and 7. In my simple mind, I cannot even begin to comprehend the level of indebtedness of our country. I can, however, picture quite clear what happens when an individual gets over their head in debt. At some point the creditors will want to collect. What does that mean to me or my kids? Will the government take 100% of our income to pay the debt? Will they have to take our home? Am I going to be able to feed and clothe my kids? Will they simply carve out a portion of the country and give it to China? How will life be under Chinese communist rule? 

It may not be affecting our daily life right this moment ... but it will, sooner or later. We can be prepared to live simpler life without electricity, medical care, etc. but that's all a moot point if all that we prepared is taken away.


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## Nevada (Sep 9, 2004)

FarmerKat said:


> Going back to the OP ...
> 
> I would not say I am angry but I am worried. I have kids, they are 5 and 7. In my simple mind, I cannot even begin to comprehend the level of indebtedness of our country. I can, however, picture quite clear what happens when an individual gets over their head in debt. At some point the creditors will want to collect. What does that mean to me or my kids? Will the government take 100% of our income to pay the debt? Will they have to take our home? Am I going to be able to feed and clothe my kids? Will they simply carve out a portion of the country and give it to China? How will life be under Chinese communist rule?
> 
> It may not be affecting our daily life right this moment ... but it will, sooner or later. We can be prepared to live simpler life without electricity, medical care, etc. but that's all a moot point if all that we prepared is taken away.


The national debt will never be repaid, and as long as people are willing to buy US debt the national debt will never become due. A US government default has never happened. It was debated in congress once, in regard to defaulting on the $2.7 trillion in Social Security debt, but it's never happened.


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## FarmerKat (Jul 3, 2014)

Nevada said:


> The national debt will never be repaid, and as long as people are willing to buy US debt the national debt will never become due. A US government default has never happened. It was debated in congress once, in regard to defaulting on the $2.7 trillion in Social Security debt, but it's never happened.


Just because it never happened before, it does not mean it will not happen. The US may not default on it's debt but they may have to take extreme measures to keep the payments. Look what happened in Greece - people were allowed to withdraw only a small amount of money from their accounts because the government needed them. Germany recently passed a law where the government can take 40% of all bank deposits over 100K Euros in case they need the money. 

My grandparents (in what was then Czechoslovakia) lost savings due to "monetary reform". With less than a month notice, the government issued new currency. Small amounts were exchanged in a ratio of 5:1 (this applied to amounts that were equal about 1 week's average pay) and the ratio went up in several tiers all the way up to 30:1. 

I hope it does not happen but I just do not see how we can just spend spend spend and not worry about where the money is coming from.


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## watcher (Sep 4, 2006)

Lots of reasons but the biggest is the fact that the people have allowed the pols to ignore the constitution for so long it has became the norm and this means my kids and grandkids will not know nor have true freedom.


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## mreynolds (Jan 1, 2015)

City Bound said:


> personally, I have been stopped mid sentence when answering questions in sociology and human service classes in college and told that I do not know what I am talking about because I am white and I was born privileged. In one school I was able to get a work grant as were many white, Asian, latino, and black students. I needed that work grant to make ends meet when I was in school. The grant is not free money for doing nothing. You get a job at the school and you can work only as much as the grant has allotted funds. The thing is that you can work strange hours that fit into your class schedule which is great because a working a regular job conflicts with classes and homework. When I went to the next college which was more liberal I had to deal with a black college worker who made it almost impossible for white and Asians to get the grants. The first thing she said to me was "What do YOU need a work grant for?" The "YOU" with racial undertones. She made a nasty expression and used a hostile tone. She seemed to be implying that white are wealthy and did not need grants. When she addressed me as "YOU" what she was really saying was ------.
> 
> 20 years ago I got hurt. I was out of work. I didn't want to but I had to go down and try to get on welfare for six months until I was back on my feet. I was the only white person in the waiting room and all the workers were black. I had to sit and be interviewed and grilled for an hour before they gave me assistance. I was treated with suspicion. I was treated with disbelief. The worker did everything she could to find a way to discredit me. In contrast, the black people that came in and sat at the desks near me were given welfare in less then five minutes, seriously. The black people would sit down, the worker would ask why they needed help, the black person would say that they could not find work and then the worker would give them approval. It was that quick and easy. In the time it took to try to discredit me based on my race handfuls of black people where given approval.
> 
> ...


I have been on many wrecks as an EMT. One that really gets my dander up was a DWI with a wife and baby in the car. No one was killed but the car seat flew out the window. It was probably the only thing that saved the babies life to be honest. 

The driver was uninjured and was told to walk away. The other two went o the hospital and the wife was legal and she got arrested for not having her baby buckled the right way. Many times they walk. I have seen it often.


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## mreynolds (Jan 1, 2015)

Miss Kay, I think the media is wrong. Most are not angry, they are tired of the norm. We have all seen how we are represented only enough to get us to vote for them again while they line their pockets behind our backs. Most don't think Trump or sanders will do that. I guess because Trump doesn't need to or that Sanders is more honest. 

I really don't know the reasons but its what I have been hearing in my little neck of the woods.


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## mreynolds (Jan 1, 2015)

I do think that non politically people are more angry in general though. Everywhere online you can see a cause on social media that goes viral. They are laid out on sided of course and it makes it easy to follow for most. It is like mini cults even and becomes consuming. I prefer to look at all sides before I make a decision. 

I have no qualms going to religious sites, Atheist sites. Liberal sites or Conservative sites. But I usually see online that "this link or that link is no good because....." 

They are all good in that it will teach us both sides. And if one is particularly inane it will teach us how not to be.


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## Farmerga (May 6, 2010)

City Bound said:


> I agree. THe markets will always adjust if it has to. The market will find its own way to survive.
> 
> Does the government let people buy into Medicaid? If people could pay $150 a month for Medicaid that would be nice. People could get basic Medicaid assistance and the gov could raise money to put back into the system.


 
That is not free market economics. The government can either take more money, from citizens, to make up any shortfall, or, simply "print" more.


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## rambler (Jan 20, 2004)

I see the govt taking over people's lives, we shouldn't try to achieve anything, just sit back with our smart phones and do nothing, perhaps the phone is supplied by the govt even, sit back and don't try to be anything, do anything, strive for anything.

Both parties in this country seem to have that as a goal, one a bit more so than the other, but its not really a party line thing. Both parries just want control and the masses should dumb down and be unimportant pegs in the wall.

I'm angry that both parties want to squash personal goals, personal achievement. The parties have different paths to do this; but both are after central govt control of every aspect on people's lives.

The rule book we are supposed to live by gets thicker and thicker and thicker every day.

I don't know how that should work?




I believe both parties have their future mapped out, and we the voters are not important to those plans. Any time either party gets mostly control of all three branches of govt, they fall on their own swords to do themselves (the Party) the most good, and do nothing for we the people. When the branches of govt are split, they prepose laws that are silly, just to be able to bicker and point fingers at each other, rather than actually solve any problem we -actually- have.

It is very disheartening.

Hillary is the Chosen One for the Dems, Bernie was a side show way out on the fringe, he was picked by The Party to contrast how 'normal' Hillary is. Well that is backfiring, the common person is so frustrated with The Party that they are turning to Bernie as the outsider, stick it to The Party.....

Same on the Repub side. They don't care about is common folk either, they throw the same old top three they wanted to install in the office. Instead the common man is so disgusted with how things are run, they are interested in an outsider like Don and see if aonething, anything, can be changed. We don't want the party shill that has been pre-appointed the office with no real care of the country.

Well in short, the leadership of both parties is forgetting about us, and just trying to plot out their own, The Party, course.

Some of us common folk actually still care about the USA first, and we are sick of The Party junk.

We are angry.

Paul


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## Miss Kay (Mar 31, 2012)

Thank you everyone who participated. I wanted to hear from real people, not the talking heads on TV. The only common theme I see here is that folks are pessimistic about our future but for very different reasons. I still think our perceptions are based on what we see and hear from the media and a lot of that is very one sided or simply lies. Some of you have been personally harmed by one thing or another but there was very little specific examples given. What I see is fear, fear of what we think might happen, fear of what we think others intend to do, fear of what we perceive is going on around us. As for me, I will continue to judge cops, elected officials, folks of different races, age, religions, etc. based on what I see happening with my own eyes regardless of what I read on social media or TV. When I do that, my world looks very different and not nearly as scary. But I'm open minded and always love to learn from others!


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## Cornhusker (Mar 20, 2003)

Miss Kay said:


> The only common theme I see here is that folks are pessimistic about our future but for very different reasons.


That's ok, President Trump will fix it. :happy2:


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## MO_cows (Aug 14, 2010)

Cornhusker said:


> That's ok, President Trump will fix it. :happy2:


Now that was just plain mean!


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## Laura Zone 5 (Jan 13, 2010)

> As for me, *I will continue to judge *cops, elected officials, folks of different races, age, religions, etc. based on what I see happening with my own eyes regardless of what I read on social media or TV. When I do that, my world looks very different and not nearly as scary. But I'm open minded and always love to learn from others!


Agree.
I will continue to discern, look at behavior patterns, body language, spoken words, and history to make good, right judgements on what is best for me and mine.


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