# Former Marine who served in Iraq banned daughterâs DC school



## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

Melissa Wood, the veteranâs wife, said that there would be an entirely different response had there been a similar assignment for Christianity. The assignment was three pages long and included questions such as, âHow did Muslim conquerors treat those they conquered,â with the correct answer of âWith tolerance, kindness and respect.â

http://www.wallstreetotc.com/no-trespassing-order-parent-over-daughter-islam-lesson/211606/


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## Dixie Bee Acres (Jul 22, 2013)

Your title of this thread is a bit misleading.
Even your quoted text, yes that is stated in the article, but you intentionally left out the detail of the father making a threat to the vice principal. 

I agree with the father, but I'm not going to condone making any threats against school officials.

Thanks for the drama.


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

I am glad you are satisfied with the responsiveness of your public schools and your experiences, but not everyone is.


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## Molly Mckee (Jul 8, 2006)

My child would have been out of that school the first time I saw an assignment like that!


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## Sawmill Jim (Dec 5, 2008)

Dixie Bee Acres said:


> Your title of this thread is a bit misleading.
> Even your quoted text, yes that is stated in the article, but you intentionally left out the detail of the father making a threat to the vice principal.
> 
> I agree with the father, but I'm not going to condone making any threats against school officials.
> ...


Why not ? Some these woosefied people precive anything other than their own ideas as a threat . And as to school officials whats makes them so special a lot of them are just liberal pawns with backing of the guns of the Gov. 

So in a so called free country one is supposed to just sit still and say nothing while a school indoctrinates their child with no recourse other than paying taxes . This whole country was started on threats and rebellion . In this day not many have the guts to buck the dictators of the Gov. ran school system.

Buddy of mine told me a good school teacher story about one of his teachers that gave him a good licking his senior year in high school in front of the class . Said this teachers main thing was to show everyone his authority . Buddy said he told that teacher his turn would come ,yep a precived threat . Well buddy says about a year later he sees this teacher at a gas station with a bunch standing around .Said he drove up got out of his car and said you remember whipping in fount of the class ,teacher said yes . Buddy said well today is your day :thumb: Told me it was worth ever penny it cost him and the ten days in jail  Sometimes you just got to do what you got to do . :hammer:


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## MO_cows (Aug 14, 2010)

It's up to the community now. Will there be a packed house at the next school board meeting? Will the school get calls, letters and visits from other parents?

Banning him was over the top, IMO. The article says it was a phone conversation, so it's not like he got in the principal's face. He was upset, he maybe said some things he shouldn't have. Sticks and stones. Everybody should get one chance to calm down and try again. Especially a marine, the principal should be able to grasp why a veteran who served in the middle east would have a perspective that is different from what they put in their curriculum.


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## Dixie Bee Acres (Jul 22, 2013)

Whether or not I am happy with schools responsiveness or not has nothing to do with it.
Like I mentioned, I agree with the father being upset, but threatening the vp is grounds for being banned from school property.
Same as if you make threats against any authority figure anywhere, you will not be welcome there anymore, be it a school, a business, or even my house.
And what does the guys military experience have anything to do with it other than being used to stir emotions and add drama?
Much like the Ferguson, MO shooting, a guy got shot by a cop, but everyone had to title him as an "Unarmed, BLACK, teen". His skin color and age had nothing to do with it, but by reporting those facts stirred emotion.
Say someone were to mug me, it would be accurate to say "disabled man of German descent was mugged", but what would my heritage actually have anything to do with it?


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## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

Just what do those that are upset about this school lesson object to?

They are not teaching someone to be Muslim. They are teaching about some of what being Muslim is. That is what school is supposed to do. Educate us.


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## Sawmill Jim (Dec 5, 2008)

painterswife said:


> Just what do those that are upset about this school lesson object to?
> 
> They are not teaching someone to be Muslim. They are teaching about some of what being Muslim is. That is what school is supposed to do. Educate us.


If the answers in the first post were the so called correct only accepted ones then it is not teaching but indoctrination :hammer: Quote with the correct answer of âWith tolerance, kindness and respect.â


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## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

Sawmill Jim said:


> If the answers in the first post were the so called correct only accepted ones then it is not teaching but indoctrination :hammer: Quote with the correct answer of &#8220;With tolerance, kindness and respect.&#8221;


Have you read the entire assignment? Do you know what the question was pertaining to?


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## Sawmill Jim (Dec 5, 2008)

Dixie Bee Acres said:


> Whether or not I am happy with schools responsiveness or not has nothing to do with it.
> Like I mentioned, I agree with the father being upset, but threatening the vp is grounds for being banned from school property.
> Same as if you make threats against any authority figure anywhere, you will not be welcome there anymore, be it a school, a business, or even my house.
> And what does the guys military experience have anything to do with it other than being used to stir emotions and add drama?
> ...


Again prove the threat :sing:


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## Dixie Bee Acres (Jul 22, 2013)

I have no responsibility to prove a threat. I'm not the one reporting the incident. The article stated a threat was made. Considering the article was written to conjure emotion against the school in defense of the father, I only assume that there was a threat of some sort made or the author of the article would not have mentioned it.


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## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

For those that like to jump on board bashing before they actually do the homework, here is some information to read and educate yourself about what really was being taught.

The actual text book that the lesson is from. This is a history lesson, not an indoctrination to a religion.

http://www.mysocialstudiesteacher.com/wiki/classroom/textbooks/Chapter 10 - Islam.pdf

Flash cards for the lesson.

http://quizlet.com/33059814/world-history-chapter-10-flash-cards/

Please note that this textbook is used in most of the high schools in the US


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## Sawmill Jim (Dec 5, 2008)

Dixie Bee Acres said:


> I have no responsibility to prove a threat. I'm not the one reporting the incident. The article stated a threat was made. Considering the article was written to conjure emotion against the school in defense of the father, I only assume that there was a threat of some sort made or the author of the article would not have mentioned it.


I beg to differ .:sing: Not only you but no one seams to have a responsibility to prove a threat The article said (the school said Wood threatened them, causing his ban from school property.) I never knew a school could talk :hammer: And again Asked what Wood threatened, Ms. Simpson replied, âHe has a specific word for it I am not going to repeat it. Weâre just saying he threatened to cause a disruption.â 

They are just saying = no proof = Lie in my book :thumb:


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## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

Here is the textbook it came from.

http://www.amazon.com/World-History-Interaction-Roger-Beck/dp/061818774X


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## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

Sawmill Jim said:


> I beg to differ .:sing: Not only you but no one seams to have a responsibility to prove a threat The article said (the school said Wood threatened them, causing his ban from school property.) I never knew a school could talk :hammer: And again Asked what Wood threatened, Ms. Simpson replied, âHe has a specific word for it I am not going to repeat it. Weâre just saying he threatened to cause a disruption.â
> 
> They are just saying = no proof = Lie in my book :thumb:


Schools are responsible for the safety of the students. You would be screaming bloody murder if he did something violent in the school and they had not done anything.


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## Dixie Bee Acres (Jul 22, 2013)

Sawmill Jim said:


> Again prove the threat :sing:


Prove there was no threat.....

I can see your point, I can see both sides. So, maybe I should reword my original statement and say he deserves to be banned from school property IF he did infact make a threat.


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## MO_cows (Aug 14, 2010)

painterswife said:


> For those that like to jump on board bashing before they actually do the homework, here is some information to read and educate yourself about what really was being taught.
> 
> The actual text book that the lesson is from. This is a history lesson, not an indoctrination to a religion.
> 
> ...


So you are assuming that high school was using this material?

The 2nd link was well beyond "flash cards". It started with the definition of some terms, simple enough. But then went on...and on and on. Had to be over 3000 words. If the curriculum delves into all the religions of the world in this much detail, there won't be enough time in the school year to teach anything else in "world history". Might as well rename the class.


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## Molly Mckee (Jul 8, 2006)

Schools are responsible for lessons being accurate. This was not. They either teach all religions or none, equally and fairly. They don't. It's the in thing to teach kids how good the muslim religion is. It embraces violence and always has, but many want it whitewashed. And many people believe what they hear, instead of doing research. This whole thing should not have happened, and unless we stand up to what is wrong, we are domed.


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## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

MO_cows said:


> So you are assuming that high school was using this material?
> 
> The 2nd link was well beyond "flash cards". It started with the definition of some terms, simple enough. But then went on...and on and on. Had to be over 3000 words. If the curriculum delves into all the religions of the world in this much detail, there won't be enough time in the school year to teach anything else in "world history". Might as well rename the class.


Yes, they were using this textbook. The answers are directly out of it.

World History Chapter 10, used in schools across the nation.


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## MO_cows (Aug 14, 2010)

Dixie Bee Acres said:


> I have no responsibility to prove a threat. I'm not the one reporting the incident. The article stated a threat was made. Considering the article was written to conjure emotion against the school in defense of the father, I only assume that there was a threat of some sort made or the author of the article would not have mentioned it.


As to whether the threat was credible or not, we only have the word of the principle. 

Everybody gets upset and says something they don't really mean. If I tell my co-workers, if DH does such-and-such, I'm gonna kill him, should they call the cops and report me for attempted homicide? 

Banning someone from the school property over one phone call just seems over the top to me. Maybe a pencil pusher felt intimidated by a rough, tough marine, so "he showed him". Because I doubt very much that an irate parent who was upset over the curriculum would have threatened any kids. Their wrath would be directed at the staff. Who, it seems in this case, over-reacted.


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## MO_cows (Aug 14, 2010)

painterswife said:


> *Yes, they were using this textbook*. The answers are directly out of it.
> 
> World History Chapter 10, used in schools across the nation.


How do you know that for sure?


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## MJsLady (Aug 16, 2006)

painterswife said:


> Just what do those that are upset about this school lesson object to?
> 
> They are not teaching someone to be Muslim. They are teaching about some of what being Muslim is. That is what school is supposed to do. Educate us.


Replace the word Muslim with Christian. Still feel the same? How about Judaism?


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## nosedirt (Sep 24, 2014)

This Marine should be ashamed of himself. After all, he is a trained killer. He should surely understand that this pencil pushing, girly man, would just be horrified at someone disagreeing with him and obviously take it as a threat of some kind. 
Marines need to understand that they should just go fight wars when they are told and keep their opinions to themselves. No one likes a Marine that thinks for himself. How dare he!!!


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## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

MJsLady said:


> Replace the word Muslim with Christian. Still feel the same? How about Judaism?


Why should I have any problem with that? Do you? How are we supposed to learn about the history of the world without talking the basics of religions?


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## Oggie (May 29, 2003)

I remember back before the Internet when stories such as this remained pretty much in the local news (if they were in the news at all) and folks didn't go out of their way to get all worked up.

Because the story that's linked is poorly written, there's just enough to get some folks' panties in a bunch and no real information about what the lesson was about.

It's entirely possible that students were learning about the Ottoman Empire. But there's really no way to know.

When I was a student and religion is a major part of world history, we learned about it.

The fact Constintine made the Roman Empire more Christian was taught and the English Crown's conflicts with and reformations of the church (just a couple of examples, off the top of my head). 

If religion is an important part of history, it should be taught. And, it usually is.


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## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

MO_cows said:


> How do you know that for sure?


Maybe because I did my homework. I have seen the entire quiz. I did what we are supposed to be teaching our children instead of jumping to conclusions.


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## JeffreyD (Dec 27, 2006)

Oggie said:


> I remember back before the Internet when stories such as this remained pretty much in the local news (if they were in the news at all) and folks didn't go out of their way to get all worked up.
> 
> Because the story that's linked is poorly written, there's just enough to get some folks' panties in a bunch and no real information about what the lesson was about.
> 
> ...


Those days are gone! No religion can be taught....period! The atheists have had their way! This is not acceptable!


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## 7thswan (Nov 18, 2008)

I hope they teach about Heavens Gate, Waco,Jim Jones along with the muslim/islam,then kids can figure out for themselves about cults.


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## MO_cows (Aug 14, 2010)

painterswife said:


> Maybe because I did my homework. I have seen the entire quiz. I did what we are supposed to be teaching our children instead of jumping to conclusions.


You hit google and found the "most common" curriculum. Great, that's more than most would.

But how do you know for a fact that's what was in use at the school in the article?


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## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

MO_cows said:


> You hit google and found the "most common" curriculum. Great, that's more than most would.
> 
> But how do you know for a fact that's what was in use at the school in the article?


I told you I have seen the actual quiz in it's entirety.


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## fordy (Sep 13, 2003)

...............Any Principal , that allows one of his teachers to teach children about Muslim History should have enough sense to notify the parents with a flyer and allow them to opt out their child from such classes ! 
................Given the fact that we , as a country have been killing Islamists for the last 12 years in two wars and most of our soldiers have returned home should alert the principal about the sensitivity of the subject . He\she should beable to connect the dots on this issue ! , fordy


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## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

fordy said:


> ...............Any Principal , that allows one of his teachers to teach children about Muslim History should have enough sense to notify the parents with a flyer and allow them to opt out their child from such classes !
> ................Given the fact that we , as a country have been killing Islamists for the last 12 years in two wars and most of our soldiers have returned home should alert the principal about the sensitivity of the subject . He\she should beable to connect the dots on this issue ! , fordy


So they should not study history of Islam because of what is happening now? That is one uniquer take on education.


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## Oggie (May 29, 2003)

JeffreyD said:


> Those days are gone! No religion can be taught....period! The atheists have had their way! This is not acceptable!



What's happening in our state contrasts that:



> MUSTANG â A high school curriculum supported by Hobby Lobby chain President Steve Green, billed as a way to teach archaeology, history and the arts through Bible stories, also tells students God is always there in times of trouble and that sinners must âsuffer the consequencesâ of disobeying.
> 
> The Mustang School Board recently voted to approve the academic curriculum for an elective course called âThe Book: The Bibleâs History, Narrative and Impact,â said Mustang School Superintendent Sean McDaniel. He said about 170 students have already pre-enrolled in the class.



From: http://newsok.com/bible-curriculum-...e-taught-in-mustang-this-fall/article/4568318


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## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

Here is the section of that same book on Christianity.

http://jmcentarfer.tripod.com/ch6_3.pdf

And a section on Indian religions.

http://jmcentarfer.tripod.com/ch7_2.pdf

Another chapter on Chrisianity

http://jmcentarfer.tripod.com/ch14_1.pdf

Remember folks this is a textbook about history and it looks like it does a good job on covering more than one religion.


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## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

And for those that like having the entire story, here is the entire quiz. Look it even tells you what book they are using in this history class. It even has a question about Christianity and Judaism for MJSLady.

Also in the furtherance of education and knowledge, text book companies often use the same sections of textbooks in several actual textbooks depending on the course and age being taught and the edition of the text book.


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## MO_cows (Aug 14, 2010)

painterswife said:


> I told you I have seen the actual quiz in it's entirety.


You're in Wyoming, the school is in the DC area. You telling us you've seen the material *at that school*? I'm not trying to be difficult here. I'm trying to assess how you can be so confident you know what is being taught in a school over 1,000 miles away.


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## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

MO_cows said:


> You're in Wyoming, the school is in the DC area. You telling us you've seen the material *at that school*? I'm not trying to be difficult here. I'm trying to assess how you can be so confident you know what is being taught in a school over 1,000 miles away.


I don't know if you have noticed but the internet is here and we can share information thousands of miles away.

PS, they post the books online and they actually named the book on the worksheet.


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## fordy (Sep 13, 2003)

painterswife said:


> So they should not study history of Islam because of what is happening now? That is one uniquer take on education.


 
...........You missed my point , millions of our soldiers have experienced 'Friendly' Islam up close and personal , therefore they might prefer to educate their children about Islam rather than the school doing such ! That decision should be left up to the children's parents . , fordy


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## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

fordy said:


> ...........You missed my point , millions of our soldiers have experienced 'Friendly' Islam up close and personal , therefore they might prefer to educate their children about Islam rather than the school doing such ! That decision should be left up to the children's parents . , fordy


I got your point and I don't see that providing children with different viewpoints is a problem. The point of education is having as much information as you can gather and then deciding for yourself what you believe.

This was a high school class after all. They are not children that need to be sheltered. I am also quite confident that they will get enough modern history as well.

The parent is free to add his viewpoint at home.


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## fordy (Sep 13, 2003)

..............They should teach the kids about the form of Islamic punishment where women are stoned when they don't wear their burka , and about the removal of fingers , toes , hands without a trial ! 
...............Teaching the history of Islam from several hundred years previous is Very misleading when compared to the current status of the muslim world . , fordy


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## Sawmill Jim (Dec 5, 2008)

painterswife said:


> I got your point and I don't see that providing children with different viewpoints is a problem. The point of education is having as much information as you can gather and then deciding for yourself what you believe.
> 
> This was a high school class after all. They are not children that need to be sheltered. I am also quite confident that they will get enough modern history as well.
> 
> The parent is free to add his viewpoint at home.


Parents are paying to have their children indoctrinated not taught :hammer: 
Teaching a view point is one thing but when they change facts and call it History is another thing all together and have a predetermined answer that is contrary to history as their guide is indoctrination at it's finest .


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## Ozarks Tom (May 27, 2011)

Relying on the fact something is in a textbook for the information's veracity is like saying "of course it's true, I saw it in People Magazine". Textbooks for the most part are written by academicians, whose bent towards the liberal agenda is well known.

The questions shown in PWs post aren't history, they're purpose is to teach islam. Knowing about mohammed's life in detail, who insignificant caliphs were, and misrepresenting islam's teachings regarding other religions is pure propaganda.

If you want history, teach what the Ottoman Empire (Turks) did to the Armenians, how their religion was (and is) spread by the sword, and what islam's goal of a worldwide caliphate would mean to the civilized world. Is any of that in the textbook? I'd bet money against it.


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## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

Ozarks Tom said:


> Relying on the fact something is in a textbook for the information's veracity is like saying "of course it's true, I saw it in People Magazine". Textbooks for the most part are written by academicians, whose bent towards the liberal agenda is well known.
> 
> The questions shown in PWs post aren't history, they're purpose is to teach islam. Knowing about mohammed's life in detail, who insignificant caliphs were, and misrepresenting islam's teachings regarding other religions is pure propaganda.
> 
> If you want history, teach what the Ottoman Empire (Turks) did to the Armenians, how their religion was (and is) spread by the sword, and what islam's goal of a worldwide caliphate would mean to the civilized world. Is any of that in the textbook? I'd bet money against it.


Lots of history of other religions including Christians doing just as many horrific things.


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## Sawmill Jim (Dec 5, 2008)

Ozarks Tom said:


> Relying on the fact something is in a textbook for the information's veracity is like saying "of course it's true, I saw it in People Magazine". Textbooks for the most part are written by academicians, whose bent towards the liberal agenda is well known.
> 
> The questions shown in PWs post aren't history, they're purpose is to teach islam. Knowing about mohammed's life in detail, who insignificant caliphs were, and misrepresenting islam's teachings regarding other religions is pure propaganda.
> 
> If you want history, teach what the Ottoman Empire (Turks) did to the Armenians, how their religion was (and is) spread by the sword, and what islam's goal of a worldwide caliphate would mean to the civilized world. Is any of that in the textbook? I'd bet money against it.


Here Here :thumb: Most I learned in school other than reading ,writing an a little math was . Teacher = God :sing:


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## fordy (Sep 13, 2003)

painterswife said:


> Lots of history of other religions including Christians doing just as many horrific things.


 ..................No argument there , the difference is the Muslims have never stopped murdering each other and everyone else that disavows the Islamic cult and it's teachings ! , fordy


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## farmrbrown (Jun 25, 2012)

Dixie Bee Acres said:


> Your title of this thread is a bit misleading.
> Even your quoted text, yes that is stated in the article, but you intentionally left out the detail of the father making a threat to the vice principal.
> 
> I agree with the father, but I'm not going to condone making any threats against school officials.
> ...





Dixie Bee Acres said:


> Whether or not I am happy with schools responsiveness or not has nothing to do with it.
> Like I mentioned, I agree with the father being upset, but threatening the vp is grounds for being banned from school property.
> Same as if you make threats against any authority figure anywhere, you will not be welcome there anymore, be it a school, a business, or even my house.
> And what does the guys military experience have anything to do with it other than being used to stir emotions and add drama?
> ...





Dixie Bee Acres said:


> I have no responsibility to prove a threat. I'm not the one reporting the incident. The article stated a threat was made. Considering the article was written to conjure emotion against the school in defense of the father, I only assume that there was a threat of some sort made or the author of the article would not have mentioned it.




As is often the case, the real issue of this story has been sidetracked into a debate on religion and school curriculum, instead of the main point - a parent's objections resulted in a trespass warrant.
Since this was addressed incorrectly on the first page, I'd like to give the direct quote from the article.......

âLast Friday, Mr. Wood made some calls to the La Playa High school and as a result the Principal issued a No Trespass order against him to keep him off school ground for everyoneâs protection,â said Charles County Schools Spokesperson Katie OâMalley Simpson in a phone conversation. Asked what Wood threatened, Ms. Simpson replied, âHe has a specific word for it I am not going to repeat it. Weâre just saying he threatened to cause a disruption.â


Now read that again and tell me where the a person was threatened.:whistlin::shrug:


I'll have to see if a "No trespass order" is the same as a trespass warrant, which is a legal document I am familiar with, in case this is a school issued complaint, rather than by a judge.
While no one on this forum has to prove a threat, the school certainly does. And as you can see from the quote......
"Ms. Simpson replied, âHe has a specific word for it* I am not going to repeat it*."

Really?
A big, bad Marine threatened you and you won't tell anyone what he said?:facepalm:

That's because he didn't, it's obvious.
He did what I often do, tell someone your honest opinion of what they said or did, and exactly what I intend to do about it.
It sometimes involves a very public protest and embarrassment with a likely verbal dressing down of the individual.
Maybe he "threatened" to drop off his child in full dress uniform, or battle fatigues, maybe with Old Glory and a honor guard with a salute.
I don't know, but if he actually made a physical threat, he'd be in jail right now.
But he didn't, and the school knew it, and they were ticked off and resorted to the only thing they COULD do.
They took their ball from the playground, went home, and shut the door to pout.
:sob:


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## Sawmill Jim (Dec 5, 2008)

painterswife said:


> Lots of history of other religions including Christians doing just as many horrific things.


Yea and a lot of those horrific things where done to those peace loving Muslims in spite of their kindness :drum:


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## Skamp (Apr 26, 2014)

Curse, in a Marine barracks, or hunting camp, or even the garage, is one thing. Curse, where it is taken literally, is a different matter.

I wonder if anyone here would like an underage child to interpret the conversation, assuming we had a transcript.


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## MO_cows (Aug 14, 2010)

painterswife said:


> I don't know if you have noticed but the internet is here and we can share information thousands of miles away.
> 
> PS, they post the books online and they actually named the book on the worksheet.


None of the links you posted were linked to that school district. 

_What we have here, is failure to communicate.
_Cool Hand Luke


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## Molly Mckee (Jul 8, 2006)

If that is the actual worksheet, ll it prove I the kids are not being taught the truth about Islam, or for that matter the other religions. The god of Islam and the God of the Christians are not the the same. That is something the people that want to be warm and fuzzy made up.
IMO this does not belong in a public school. The truth is being twisted and religion is being taught. My kid would be out of there and I would be the principle worst nightmare as a taxpayer.


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## farmrbrown (Jun 25, 2012)

Skamp said:


> Curse, in a Marine barracks, or hunting camp, or even the garage, is one thing. Curse, where it is taken literally, is a different matter.
> 
> I wonder if anyone here would like an underage child to interpret the conversation, assuming we had a transcript.


I would.
Who said he cursed anyway?

He might have said he was going to come down there and have a "prayer meeting."
LOL
THAT can have a few meanings as well, depending on whether it's a said in a church or barracks.


Boy howdy, y'all would have had a real hard time growing up in our household, lol.
We got spanked with peach tree switches, heard my dad cuss a blue streak when he was mad, and God help any busy body that stuck their nose in our family's business...........................
Guess what profession Mom and Dad were?

Hint: Ya might learn somethin'






BTW, I can post the letter the principal wrote to the parents dated Oct. 27th.
No need to assume anything, facts are available.


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## farmrbrown (Jun 25, 2012)

Again, it doesn't matter what was being taught. What matters is the parent's right to call the school and voice their objection without being threatened with a trespass offense.
I'd say the school needs a lesson in history, starting with the method of payment for those fine government buildings from which they are issuing trespass orders.
The payment was public taxes and soldiers' blood.
How's that for a civic lesson?


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## JeffreyD (Dec 27, 2006)

Oggie said:


> What's happening in our state contrasts that:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


You did read where it said..." an elective"...didn't you? You do know what an "elective" is don't you? Religion is not allowed as part of the "curriculum". Most school districts have cancelled after school clubs that are religious in nature, and some that do still allow them want the leadership positions to be open to anyone, from any background. ...think about that!

America is going mad, and it's a very sad thing to watch!!


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

painterswife said:


> I got your point and I don't see that providing children with different viewpoints is a problem. The point of education is having as much information as you can gather and then deciding for yourself what you believe.
> 
> This was a high school class after all. They are not children that need to be sheltered. I am also quite confident that they will get enough modern history as well.
> 
> The parent is free to add his viewpoint at home.


Why would one suppose multiple points of view are equal?


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## nosedirt (Sep 24, 2014)

Farmrbrown,
Thank you for trying to get this back on point. A favorite of the left is to divert attention from the real issue. 

Maybe the "threat" that this principal feels he received is simply the fact that this Marine disagrees with him. Anyhoo, it's been my experience that Marines do not issue threats, they are however, very good at keeping promises.


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## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

nosedirt said:


> Farmrbrown,
> Thank you for trying to get this back on point. A favorite of the left is to divert attention from the real issue.
> 
> Maybe the "threat" that this principal feels he received is simply the fact that this Marine disagrees with him. Anyhoo, it's been my experience that Marines do not issue threats, they are however, very good at keeping promises.


It was pretty obvious that the people on the right were the ones making it about what was being taught.


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## fordy (Sep 13, 2003)

painterswife said:


> It was pretty obvious that the people on the right were the ones making it about what was being taught.


 ............I read most of the questions on the test , they , in NO Way , EDucate the students taking the course about the level of violence , the sadistic killing and beheading of innocent aid workers who pose NO threat to any of the Islamic fighters in any way ! 
............How can any teacher or school district teach a class on Islam that Totally Ignors what Islam has evolved into ? Those questions are so far removed from the Islamic Reality of today it is an Insult to anyone with any knowledge about the various wars fought under the Islamic religion . , fordy


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## farmrbrown (Jun 25, 2012)

painterswife said:


> It was pretty obvious that the people on the right were the ones making it about what was being taught.


That is a true statement. Most of the sidetracking was about the material content and assignment, and most of it was coming from "the right" as you call it. 
"Why are they teaching this?"
"Show me the textbook they used."
"They wouldn't allow this if it was Christian."
And on for several pages.
:hijacked:



And it started after post #8, with a question............. 



painterswife said:


> Just what do those that are upset about this school lesson object to?
> 
> They are not teaching someone to be Muslim. They are teaching about some of what being Muslim is. That is what school is supposed to do. Educate us.


:drum:


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## SLFarmMI (Feb 21, 2013)

Many you appear to be doubting that there was a threat involved. I have absolutely no doubt that there was because in my school district, and in my school, it happens all the time. And there are never any consequences to the parents so kudos to the principal for standing up and doing something.

I'd like to know when it became ok to threaten to beat up or kill school staff? When did it become ok to scream and swear at staff? These are not rare instances. I know that if I was the one threatening, screaming and swearing I would certainly be banned from the building and would be fired.

School staff have the right to go to work every day without being threatened. We have the right not to be sworn at or screamed at.


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## farmrbrown (Jun 25, 2012)

nosedirt said:


> Farmrbrown,
> Thank you for trying to get this back on point. A favorite of the left is to divert attention from the real issue.
> 
> Maybe the "threat" that this principal feels he received is simply the fact that this Marine disagrees with him. Anyhoo, it's been my experience that Marines do not issue threats, they are however, very good at keeping promises.



My dad used to say that.........
"Son, that's not a threat, it's a _promise_, learn the difference!"


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## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

farmrbrown said:


> That is a true statement. Most of the sidetracking was about the material content and assignment, and most of it was coming from "the right" as you call it.
> "Why are they teaching this?"
> "Show me the textbook they used."
> "They wouldn't allow this if it was Christian."
> ...


I posted in response to post #2 and post # 4 so I think you might want to reread them and note they were talking about what was taught before I asked why.


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## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

fordy said:


> ............I read most of the questions on the test , they , in NO Way , EDucate the students taking the course about the level of violence , the sadistic killing and beheading of innocent aid workers who pose NO threat to any of the Islamic fighters in any way !
> ............How can any teacher or school district teach a class on Islam that Totally Ignors what Islam has evolved into ? Those questions are so far removed from the Islamic Reality of today it is an Insult to anyone with any knowledge about the various wars fought under the Islamic religion . , fordy


How about reading the chapter and understanding the context. Even better the whole text an put the chapter in context.


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## farmrbrown (Jun 25, 2012)

I did.
That's how I tracked it down.
Someone said they'd pull their kid out of that school.
Someone else said they'd sure as heck have something to say about what was taught, and that they had every right to object as a parent without being banned or warned , etc.

The discussion was about the father having the right to voice his displeasure as well as the reason for it.
Kind of a 1st amendment issue, then you asked, "Why?", which wasn't necessary because Stevie Wonder could see THAT.


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## Sawmill Jim (Dec 5, 2008)

SLFarmMI said:


> Many you appear to be doubting that there was a threat involved. I have absolutely no doubt that there was because in my school district, and in my school, it happens all the time. And there are never any consequences to the parents so kudos to the principal for standing up and doing something.
> 
> I'd like to know when it became ok to threaten to beat up or kill school staff? When did it become ok to scream and swear at staff? These are not rare instances. I know that if I was the one threatening, screaming and swearing I would certainly be banned from the building and would be fired.
> 
> School staff have the right to go to work every day without being threatened. We have the right not to be sworn at or screamed at.


And you have absolute no doubt of a threat based on precived threats on teachers in your area :thumb:

#1 you work for NASA and had the phone bugged 
#2 At your school you have that phone bugged 
#3 You wouldn't know a threat if you heard one :sing:
#4 You are a god er teacher :thumb:


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## SLFarmMI (Feb 21, 2013)

Sawmill Jim said:


> And you have absolute no doubt of a threat based on precived threats on teachers in your area :thumb:
> 
> #1 you work for NASA and had the phone bugged
> #2 At your school you have that phone bugged
> ...


I have no doubt that a threat was issued because I live with it every day. When a parent screams at you that they are going to beat the *expletive* out of you, that is not a perceived threat, that is a very real threat. That threat, by the way, happened on Monday so, yeah, I know a threat when I hear one. I also know, based on almost 2 decades of experience, that it is a very big deal for administration to ban a parent from the building and it is not easy to do so. The parent that threatened the 3 other staff members and me on Monday had absolutely NO consequences for making that threat by the way.


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## nosedirt (Sep 24, 2014)

SLFarm,
"_I have absolutely no doubt that there was because in my school district, and in my school, it happens all the time._"
How does this prove that the father made a threat?

_School staff have the right to go to work every day without being threatened. We have the right not to be sworn at or screamed at._ Well yes, they most certainly do. And this father has a right to voice his concern without being banned from the school.

Here is why i think no threat was made...If the father made any threat against the school, staff, or students, the principal has a legal responsibility to report it to the cops. He didn't report anything because there was nothing to report. The principal thought he could easily shut up the Dad by telling him he was banned. He didn't understand that a Marine is not easily bullied.


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## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

nosedirt said:


> SLFarm,
> "_I have absolutely no doubt that there was because in my school district, and in my school, it happens all the time._"
> How does this prove that the father made a threat?
> 
> ...


The fathers words according to what he told a reporter. "I will bring a poop storm down on thi s school" I used the word poop, he used another word.


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## SLFarmMI (Feb 21, 2013)

nosedirt said:


> SLFarm,
> "_I have absolutely no doubt that there was because in my school district, and in my school, it happens all the time._"
> How does this prove that the father made a threat?
> 
> ...


Afraid it doesn't work that way in the real world. The only threats that will get a police report are those involving weapons (i.e. bomb threats, etc). A parent can threaten to beat up staff all day long and nothing will happen. They're allowed to "vent" all they want without any type of consequences at all. The most I'm allowed to do is to walk out of the meeting or hang up the phone. Both of which I have done. 

None of us knows for sure what happened because we weren't there but I think there was a threat made for the very simple reason that every administrator I have ever known, from superintendents to principals, are very focused on keeping parents happy. Tick too many parents off and you won't be a principal or superintendent very long. It is a huge, huge deal to ban a parent from a building. In almost 20 years of teaching in my district, I have only heard of it happening once and that was only after an actual assault of a teacher happened.


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## Sawmill Jim (Dec 5, 2008)

SLFarmMI 

Well gee you went from being absolutely sure of a threat to thinking there was one that is real progress for a teacher :sing: I have known some teachers that need a trip out behind the barn . Even had one once that had a hearing problem but was good at math .Fellow just wasn't interested in my side at all said he was going to call the cops .I explained they were at the fastest eight minuets away after he made the call . Fellows hearing made a drastic improvement and we reached a mutual understanding :sing: 

You do understand that former military,peppers and Tea Party members are all considered armed and dangerous in today's world


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## kasilofhome (Feb 10, 2005)

painterswife said:


> The fathers words according to what he told a reporter. "I will bring a poop storm down on thi s school" I used the word poop, he used another word.


Here's proof that if that was the threat you claim was a threat...I state and stand that it was a promise he fulfilled. 

Next


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## nosedirt (Sep 24, 2014)

SLFarm,
I am sorry that you have to deal with such issues. It sounds like your administrators need some guidance in this area. 
Back to the point at hand, you can't use your experience as the sole deciding factor of what happened. I understand your point on administrators trying to stay on the side of PC and not upset parents, but apparently this principal takes a different view. He could have avoided all the hoopla had he simply sat down with the Dad and tried to work out a solution. Typically, ask the parent to put together a couple options for resolution and meet three days later. By then everyone has calmed down and it becomes rather easy to resolve. Administrators that fail to remember who the parent of the child is and dig their heels in(sounds like this principal) are not successful at resolution. 
it has been suggested that the Dad said he would bring a poo storm down on the school. If that is true, then what I said earlier has happened. The Marine kept his promise. That principal has most likely been in meetings all week explaining to the board why their school district is in the national news. If he has any intelligence, he is also brushing up his resume.


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## SLFarmMI (Feb 21, 2013)

nosedirt said:


> SLFarm,
> Did you provoke that parent into threatening you? Because at my school, that happens all the time.


Oh, yeah, I provoked that threat by being the observer and note taker while other staff attempted to prevent her 3rd grade son from physically attacking (kicking, biting, punching) his teacher. All staff were using nationally approved and safe crisis management strategies by the way. Apparently, according to mom, we should let the kid bite and punch his teacher while we talk to him calmly.


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## SLFarmMI (Feb 21, 2013)

kasilofhome said:


> Here's proof that if that was the threat you claim was a threat...I state and stand that it was a promise he fulfilled.
> 
> Next


IF (and stories do tend to change when reporters and/or police arrive on scene) that is all that he said, then we can agree there was overreaction on the part of administration. That wouldn't even raise an eyebrow in my district.


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## farmrbrown (Jun 25, 2012)

Well, I didn't post the links, but section 6-400 is the Maryland code to see for yourselves the charges, level of action it takes, penalties etc. on trespassing laws.
The code words used by the principal in the articles led me to the specific law that was used against the father.
I may post the link later anyway, so the language used about "disrupting" the school can be seen.
Like when you don't give a specific example but use the words "hostile work environment" everybody knows you've looked up the legal term.

http://law.justia.com/codes/maryland/2010/criminal-law/title-6/subtitle-4
Â§ 6-409. Refusal or failure to leave public building or grounds.

(a) Prohibited - During regularly closed hours.- A person may not refuse or fail to leave a public building or grounds, or a specific part of a public building or grounds, during the time when the public building or grounds, or specific part of the public building or grounds, is regularly closed to the public if: 
(1) the surrounding circumstances would indicate to a reasonable person that the person who refuses or fails to leave has no apparent lawful business to pursue at the public building or grounds; and 
(2) a regularly employed guard, watchman, or other authorized employee of the government unit that owns, operates, or maintains the public building or grounds asks the person to leave. 
(b) Same - During regular business hours.- A person may not refuse or fail to leave a public building or grounds, or a specific part of a public building or grounds, during regular business hours if: 
(1) the surrounding circumstances would indicate to a reasonable person that the person who refuses or fails to leave: 
(i) has no apparent lawful business to pursue at the public building or grounds; or 
*(ii) is acting in a manner disruptive of and disturbing to the conduct of normal business* by the government unit that owns, operates, or maintains the public building or grounds; and 
(2) an authorized employee of the government unit asks the person to leave. 
(c) Penalty.- A person who violates this section is guilty of a misdemeanor and on conviction is subject to imprisonment not exceeding 6 months or a fine not exceeding $1,000 or both. 




I don't know if this link will show the letter the principal wrote to the other parents.

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10152797233552509&set=p.10152797233552509&type=1&theater



A "poop storm", huh?
Boy, we're gonna need a protocol from the CDC on that one so we'll all know what PPE to wear............

:rainprf:

And here I was thinking the whole time he might have actually slipped up and said some kind of physical threat in the heat of the moment!
"Gonna bring a poop storm down on that school, I tell ya what!"
:facepalm:

You guys would have probably called 911 and fainted on the spot at some of the things I've said to Congressmen in public, right to their face.
Don't get me started on letters and voicemails.
Whew, I'm glad someone finally let the secret out, now I can watch some Seinfeld and go to bed, lol.


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## Dixie Bee Acres (Jul 22, 2013)

THAT was the "threat"? Give me a break. Mr Principal needs to grow a pair.
I wouldn't call that a threat, I'd call that an upset parent venting.

Problem is, and not that I like it, there was a time when a kid saying " I'm going to kill everyone" was senseless babble and not a threat.


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

SLFarmMI said:


> Many you appear to be doubting that there was a threat involved. I have absolutely no doubt that there was because in my school district, and in my school, it happens all the time. And there are never any consequences to the parents so kudos to the principal for standing up and doing something.
> 
> I'd like to know when it became ok to threaten to beat up or kill school staff? When did it become ok to scream and swear at staff? These are not rare instances. I know that if I was the one threatening, screaming and swearing I would certainly be banned from the building and would be fired.
> 
> School staff have the right to go to work every day without being threatened. We have the right not to be sworn at or screamed at.


I have a a couple of questions, for you or anyone.

What recourse does a parent have related to public school performance? Asked another way, what does a parent do when they are dissatisfied with a teacher, a principle or a school as a whole?

What does one normally do if they are dissatisfied with a product or service, they take their business elsewhere, right? You don't have that option (can't equate home schooling or private schools).

Because you have no power, no recourse or no choices of parity, frustration builds, so would the frustration not manifest itself from time to time. Just human nature when faced with a unnatural situation of not having valid choices.

This Marine had no valid choices except to display his displeasure, maybe in an impolite way, but again, what power does he have over the situation that obviously displeased him? 

Public schools are not accountable to their customers.


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## Dixie Bee Acres (Jul 22, 2013)

He can't take his concerns to the school board? The board are elected not hired, the are accessable to anyone within their district.
At my highschool, a teacher was fired because 3 parents addressed the school board about their displeasure in that teacher.


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

Dixie Bee Acres said:


> He can't take his concerns to the school board? The board are elected not hired, the are accessable to anyone within their district.
> At my highschool, a teacher was fired because 3 parents addressed the school board about their displeasure in that teacher.


Do you not suppose the school board had approved this curriculum?


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## farmrbrown (Jun 25, 2012)

There is plenty of recourse, plenty of action that can be taken, for him, for everyone.
I'm not going to teach an entire civics course on this forum, we should all know by now.
Those that don't know, observe the actions of those that do........then lead, follow or get out of the way.
The Marine followed and will follow the chain of command, so the school board will be next.
This is D.C., so I don't hold out much hope for change, if you'll pardon that ironic pun.
After that, let the storm begin!


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## mmoetc (Oct 9, 2012)

HDRider said:


> Do you not suppose the school board had approved this curriculum?


Sure they did. That doesn't make them unaccountable to the parents in the district and others who elected them. As a former marine this parent should at least have understood the chain of command and been willing and able to move his complaints up the chain. There are no real excuses for making any kind of threat, other than taking proper, legal actions, against any person or the school itself in a case like this. The school has an obligation to protect all of its employees and students. Would you object to the headline if it read "Former Marine with PTSD attacks school over lesson."? That unfortunately is a real fear in today's world. I hope everyone in this case can eventually calm down and talk to each other.


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## farmrbrown (Jun 25, 2012)

He followed the chain of command.
To call what he said as a threat is to to say every dog that barks needs to reported to Animal Control.
What a bunch of pansies we are raising in this country!

Are the people calling "bringing a poop storm down on this school" unable to interpret that as him organizing a protest on the public sidewalk in front of the school?

Did the article specifically *say* that?
No.
Did the letter from the principal say that this was done to "prevent a disturbance" at the school?
Yes, read the letter in the link I posted.
It's easy to figure out what this so called threat was.........embarassment.
OMG!


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## mmoetc (Oct 9, 2012)

farmrbrown said:


> He followed the chain of command.
> To call what he said as a threat is to to say every dog that barks needs to reported to Animal Control.
> What a bunch of pansies we are raising in this country!
> 
> ...


I read the link. It was written in typically vague beurocratic prose. The threatened disruption could have been anything from a peaceful protest to a threat to march in and physically confront the principal or or teacher. As usual, I don't "know" as much as some. Care to show me where the father has told us his exact words. One could equally surmise that his failure to do so indicates some guilt on his part. I do know that, in my opinion, the father overreacted and forced the school's hand. It appears his daughter can now sit out the rest of this lesson in the library. No harm came to anyone. That's the positive.


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

farmrbrown said:


> There is plenty of recourse, plenty of action that can be taken, for him, for everyone.
> I'm not going to teach an entire civics course on this forum, we should all know by now.
> Those that don't know, observe the actions of those that do........then lead, follow or get out of the way.
> The Marine followed and will follow the chain of command, so the school board will be next.
> ...


So now he marches to the school board. What leverage, other than his power of persuasion, arguing against a curriculum the SB approved?

How could anyone expect results from that?

My argument is based on the simple premise that you are FORCED to use a public school, like it or not. That creates frustration and each group lines up on one side or the other.


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## Dixie Bee Acres (Jul 22, 2013)

HDRider said:


> So now he marches to the school board. What leverage, other than his power of persuasion, arguing against a curriculum the SB approved?
> 
> How could anyone expect results from that?
> 
> My argument is based on the simple premise that you are FORCED to use a public school, like it or not. That creates frustration and each group lines up on one side or the other.


To answer your previous question, did the school board approve that curriculum, possibly, depends, how long have the members been on the board and how long has that book been used?

To address this post, no you are not forced to use public schools. It is a choice you make to use them. Otherwise there would be no private schools, no charter schools, no church schools, and no home schooling.
You use public schools because it is cheaper, more convinent, closer, etc. You are NOT forced to.

My kids go to public schools, I have had issues with teachers in the past, each time I write a letter to the teacher asking them for an explaination and then go from there.

Please Mr HDRider, in all your infinate wisdom and knowledge, please explain how you are FORCED to use a public school system.


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## mmoetc (Oct 9, 2012)

HDRider said:


> So now he marches to the school board. What leverage, other than his power of persuasion, arguing against a curriculum the SB approved?
> 
> How could anyone expect results from that?
> 
> My argument is based on the simple premise that you are FORCED to use a public school, like it or not. That creates frustration and each group lines up on one side or the other.


Maybe, just maybe, he contacts other like minded parents and they appear en masse at the board meeting to express their concerns. Maybe, just maybe, he or someone else with his sensibilities runs in the next school board election. Maybe, just maybe, he uses the system. In many ways this story isn't much different than stories of many of the overreacting parents we so love to make fun of. The complaint draws on a more emotional subject but his reaction follows the same my kid is important, listen to me narrative. I don't know why this family chose this area to live in or this school to send their child to. I do know that if you don't choose to pay attention to school board elections and show up meetings where things like curriculums are discussed and voted on you might just be surprised by things like this. You can stomp your feet and complain or you can get involved and try to change things. I'll be curious as to how this man proceeds.


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## SLFarmMI (Feb 21, 2013)

HDRider said:


> I have a a couple of questions, for you or anyone.
> 
> What recourse does a parent have related to public school performance? Asked another way, what does a parent do when they are dissatisfied with a teacher, a principle or a school as a whole?
> 
> ...


What recourse did he have?
1. Speak to the teacher (please note that I said speak and not scream), express his concerns in a rational and calm way and ask for an alternative assignment. Happens all the time and is not a big deal.
2. Go up the food chain and speak to the principal, express his concerns in a rational and calm way and ask for an alternative assignment. Again not a big deal, happens all the time.
3. Gather like minded parents and go to the school board, express his concerns in a rational and calm way and ask for a change in the curriculum. Also, not a big deal, happens all the time.
4. Seek out other schools in which to enroll his child.

"Public schools are not accountable to their customers." That's funny. The only ones that are being held accountable in the whole education arena are the teachers and schools. It certainly isn't the students, parents or politicians.


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## mmoetc (Oct 9, 2012)

I've asked this sort of question before and gotten little response but I'll ask again. How many of you can name your elected school board representative? How many have been to even one school board meeting in the last year?


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## farmrbrown (Jun 25, 2012)

mmoetc said:


> I read the link. It was written in typically vague beurocratic prose. The threatened disruption could have been anything from a peaceful protest to a threat to march in and physically confront the principal or or teacher. As usual, I don't "know" as much as some. Care to show me where the father has told us his exact words. One could equally surmise that his failure to do so indicates some guilt on his part. I do know that, in my opinion, the father overreacted and forced the school's hand. It appears his daughter can now sit out the rest of this lesson in the library. No harm came to anyone. That's the positive.




Way to many assumptions and disinformation to address without taking some time.
Typically, in a thread like this, 4 or 5 people constantly call for a dissenter to "prove" something, even if it was admitted as an unknown from the beginning. Thus the difference between an opinion and a fact.
I'll see if I can "prove" what the father said in a moment. Unfortunately, your next response would likely be (this is my opinion, not fact), "Yeah, but that's HIS word against hers, I still don't believe it."
Which is why I rarely succumb to such tactics as it wastes time for my effort.



HDRider said:


> So now he marches to the school board. What leverage, other than his power of persuasion, arguing against a curriculum the SB approved?
> 
> How could anyone expect results from that?
> 
> My argument is based on the simple premise that you are FORCED to use a public school, like it or not. That creates frustration and each group lines up on one side or the other.




Are you asking for odds or anecdotes?
I'll post the Charles County complaint process for parents in a moment, the chain-of-command. 
as in every school case, the chain is short and usually ends with an elected school board/superintendent.
You could say the next step would be the voting booth and/or public square in protest.



http://www.ccboe.com/pdf/publications/parent_complaints.pdf


As for an expectation of results, that would range from 0-100%. But one thing is certain, if you never try, failure is certain.
Having no knowledge of the players involved, I can't give you a prediction on results. I can cite several personal examples where a group of disgruntled citizens stopped entrenched injustices against huge odds.
I also have tales of defeat when victory was in sight.
All required at least minimal effort though, not meek submission.

Now, to the misstatement that we are "forced" to use public schools.......

You and I both know that's not true. It is difficult to homeschool, but it IS still a choice. Like many things in life, there are many hard choices that we make, but choose, we can. There is a whole sub-forum on this board about it.


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

Dixie Bee Acres said:


> To answer your previous question, did the school board approve that curriculum, possibly, depends, how long have the members been on the board and how long has that book been used?
> 
> To address this post, no you are not forced to use public schools. It is a choice you make to use them. Otherwise there would be no private schools, no charter schools, no church schools, and no home schooling.
> You use public schools because it is cheaper, more convenient, closer, etc. You are NOT forced to.
> ...


I will offer a small sliver of my finite wisdom that will be wasted effort in an attempt to change your mind which appears to be made up on the issue of having free market choices on schooling.

I pay over $3K per year in property taxes and a myriad of other taxes that go to fund public schools. I no longer have children in school, but that is beside the point. So can we agree that public schools are funded via socialist methods?

So if I chose a private school I would still pay those taxes that fund those public schools, again, that I don't use.

That would make choices other than public schools prohibitively expensive, or unattractive for other reason such as the commitment to home schooling etcetera. I would be paying twice if I chose private schools.

So economics and the force of government causes me to utilize a monopolistic entity that uses a large part of their monies to fund political campaigns to continue their monopolistic practices.

This whole issue would be settled if I did have a choice in how my money funds the school I chose. The school I freely chose would be responsive to me, or I would choose to send my children elsewhere at a cost fixed my market forces, not government force.

I fully expect this is completely lost on you, but at least I know I tried.


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

It is an ideological argument in my mind, and an ideology not of most of your liking's.

The other issue some of you raise are small considerations in a much larger context.

As too often the case, so many choose forced government actions to support their ideas, where I think we have overused government force in too many aspects of our modern American life. This being done while over half of our population have no right to make choices in my life when they contribute nothing toward funding those choices.


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## farmrbrown (Jun 25, 2012)

HD, your explanation of the funding mechanism is correct.
Your omission of several key choices is a little misleading, I assume because it makes your argument, rather than disproves it.

You can choose to buy your own home or you can rent, you can even buy an RV and live a nonconventional lifestyle, that is your choice. With every choice comes a consequence, owning property comes with property taxes.
Buying in a store rather than growing or making your own is a choice that also comes with a sales tax, but you always have a choice, no matter how difficult.
Finally, you have a choice whether to have children or not.
The older I get, the more I may regret my choice, but it was always mine to make. Even a childless couple has choices like adoption and foster parenting.
See? The choices are there, no one is forcing it upon anyone.


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## Laura Zone 5 (Jan 13, 2010)

In 2001, my son's 5th grade teacher was my deciding factor.

1. They had a project (of the 5, 5th grade teachers 4 participated; the 5th, a retired Marine, refused) where each child was to pick a state, and then research 'what was good about this state" to convince President Bush not to SELL THE STATE, to lower our national debt. It was the most asinine thing....sell one of the UNITED states to lower the debt. Oy.

2. She refused to pick my boy when his hand was up; said he participated too much and he was not giving the other kids a chance to talk. On SEVERAL separate occasions, his hand was the ONLY hand to go up and when she ignored him, and picked other kids, they didn't know the answer or did not want to give the answer......

3. Had the kids to a 'fashion show' to tell about themselves. My boy is a hockey player. She ridiculed him for his 'brutal caveman' sport....

4. She had the females in the class take the leadership roles, and had the males, take a more subserviant role.

So my choices were this:

1. Cry to the teacher (I actually threatened her)
2. Cry to the principal (who had been emasulated years earlier)
3. Cry to the school board (made up of HOA mom's on steriods)
4. Pull the kids, and home educate.

And I chose option 4.
I do NOT regret that decision, one single bit.
I still paid 2k a year in taxes that went to that joke of a school.
But today I have 3 adult children who are AMAZING people.
1, a pastry chef, and a future Army wife.
1, still in college at a university on a hockey scholarship!
1, waiting to re-enlist in the United States Marines.

My kids were and are more important than some 'dog fight' about 'what's fair and what's not'. 
There is no "do over" button on life....so I took the bull by the horns and home educated and cut all the nonsense out.
I am so glad I was not pig headed and tried to 'get my way or prove my point'
I said "poop on your face public school, I will do it myself"
My kids were and are the most important thing / people in my life.
And I proved it by pulling them, and home schooling.

And I am SO thankful I did.


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## Tiempo (May 22, 2008)

What it boils down to is pretty simple, he had a problem and whether we agree with him or not is less important than the fact that we need to, as adults, solve problems rationally rather than throw a hissy fit like a seven year old.


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## farmrbrown (Jun 25, 2012)

Tiempo said:


> What it boils down to is pretty simple, he had a problem and whether we agree with him or not is less important than the fact that we need to, as adults, solve problems rationally rather than throw a hissy fit like a seven year old.



You are absolutely right. And since most, if not all of this conversation is unknown, with the exception of the two participants, I'd have to say it's impossible to tell who got out of line first.

I do know that most people in authority are not used to, and don't like to be questioned.
I also know a combat soldier is used to overcoming obstacles, using proportional force.

According to the report, it was the school principal that shut the door to communication, at least in person, and it was the father who said he recognized no such authority to do, that it was meaningless to him.

Only one side appears to have thrown a hissy fit to me........care to guess which one sounds out of character?


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## Tiempo (May 22, 2008)

I work with veterans every day, I'm very familiar with a good deal of them coming back with, erm, a lack of filter...so yeah


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## farmrbrown (Jun 25, 2012)

Tiempo said:


> I work with veterans every day, I'm very familiar with a good deal of them coming back with, erm, a lack of filter...so yeah


Good, so let me ask.
Do you fear for your life or feel threatened when you speak with these guys who "lack a filter"?


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## nosedirt (Sep 24, 2014)

Well said Laura


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## Sawmill Jim (Dec 5, 2008)

Dixie Bee Acres said:


> He can't take his concerns to the school board? The board are elected not hired, the are accessable to anyone within their district.
> At my highschool, a teacher was fired because 3 parents addressed the school board about their displeasure in that teacher.


Well in this area only ones that could complain about a teacher to anyone and get results is farmers with above 10,000 acres ,lawyers, banker if bank has their loans and the other PTB :buds:

Now if you work at 7 11 you are just So Out Luck aka SOL :drum:


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## farmrbrown (Jun 25, 2012)

I guess I should admit my wife and I see things differently as well, although she is no shrinking violet.
Going into biker bars underage to shoot pool with beach attire and long hair might have something to do with my nonchalant attitude about aggressiveness and language.


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## Riverdale (Jan 20, 2008)

"The assignment was three pages long and included questions such as, &#8220;How did Muslim conquerors treat those they conquered,&#8221; with the correct answer of &#8220;With tolerance, kindness and respect.&#8221;

Yeah, sure :facepalm:

Convert or die

not 

_Deis vult_ (God wills)
but convert or *DIE*


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

farmrbrown said:


> HD, your explanation of the funding mechanism is correct.
> Your omission of several key choices is a little misleading, I assume because it makes your argument, rather than disproves it.
> 
> You can choose to buy your own home or you can rent, you can even buy an RV and live a nonconventional lifestyle, that is your choice. With every choice comes a consequence, owning property comes with property taxes.
> ...


Seriously? That is your argument?


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## mmoetc (Oct 9, 2012)

HDRider said:


> I will offer a small sliver of my finite wisdom that will be wasted effort in an attempt to change your mind which appears to be made up on the issue of having free market choices on schooling.
> 
> I pay over $3K per year in property taxes and a myriad of other taxes that go to fund public schools. I no longer have children in school, but that is beside the point. So can we agree that public schools are funded via socialist methods?
> 
> ...


I pay a lot of taxes for things I don't agree with or neccessarily directly benefit from. I even pay taxes so part of that money can go to subsidize private school tuition for those who could, and previously did, pay the full freight. The tax spending I have the most control of is that which occurs most locally. That would include things like school budgets and local road and county works budgets. Meeting times and agendas are printed in the local paper. I attend and make my voice heard. I don't always get what I want and I don't always agree with how money is spent but I always get heard. Do you?


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## kasilofhome (Feb 10, 2005)

Dixie Bee Acres said:


> He can't take his concerns to the school board? The board are elected not hired, the are accessable to anyone within their district.
> At my highschool, a teacher was fired because 3 parents addressed the school board about their displeasure in that teacher.


Reality....

A citizen is not just limited to the school board for grievances.


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## kasilofhome (Feb 10, 2005)

mmoetc said:


> I've asked this sort of question before and gotten little response but I'll ask again. How many of you can name your elected school board representative? How many have been to even one school board meeting in the last year?


I attend meetings, and worker on the election of my rep, vetted him too...but I do that for every election congress, fed. Senate, state leg,state Senate, assemble, mayor, ele board, gov and,Ltd.. gov.

I have been involved.


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## sidepasser (May 10, 2002)

HDRider said:


> So now he marches to the school board. What leverage, other than his power of persuasion, arguing against a curriculum the SB approved?
> 
> How could anyone expect results from that?
> 
> My argument is based on the simple premise that you are FORCED to use a public school, like it or not. That creates frustration and each group lines up on one side or the other.


Forced to use a public school? I don't think so. When my son's teacher in public school would not work with us to figure out a way to give extra help in Math when my son was in 5th grade and could not multiply and divide and told me "he can get it in class or fail". I took him out of that school and put him in a private school where they provided tutors for him after school and he caught up to the rest of the class. 

_*No one is "forced" to use a public school.*_ What most parents do not realize is that MOST private college preparatory schools will give scholarships and grants to students that are motivated to learn and achieve. Also, grants are available through Federal programs for low income students that will allow a "failing" public school child to attend a private school.

BTW - I am not "rich", I worked full time and part time to make sure the tuition bills were paid. The school worked with me to make sure that my child had the best education that could be had and gave us a scholarship for 1/2 of the tuition. 

People should advocate for their children, whether in public, charter or private schools. Most parents just accept the status quo. If there had not been a private school in my town, I would have home schooled. I was just that unhappy with the public school system.


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## bubba42 (Jan 5, 2014)

Having actually traveled to most Mideastern countries (unlike most of our school teachers and public civil servants), many Islamic countries still practice public executions. This is also a currently accepted Islamic punishment for apostasy. Saudi comes to mind. I have studied the language and the culture and can say that there are many good people in the Middle East, and many I would call a friend. I would also say that Islam is not a tolerant religion, and as ISIS is showing us, Islam has not always treated people with tolerance and respect, as the assignment appears to be driven towards. All religions have had evil leaders take advantage of religious beliefs in order to provide an enemy to "hate" as a unifying factor (this would include politicians today) yet it is interesting to see the absence of Christian marauders roaming North America today beheading any who fail to convert to Christianity. Most people I have met have little to no knowledge on the difference between Shia or Sunni, and why that matters to ISIS who want a new caliphate. I suspect the school had good intentions that were very poorly executed.


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## farmrbrown (Jun 25, 2012)

bubba42 said:


> Having actually traveled to most Mideastern countries (unlike most of our school teachers and public civil servants), many Islamic countries still practice public executions. This is also a currently accepted Islamic punishment for apostasy. Saudi comes to mind. I have studied the language and the culture and can say that there are many good people in the Middle East, and many I would call a friend. I would also say that Islam is not a tolerant religion, and as ISIS is showing us, Islam has not always treated people with tolerance and respect, as the assignment appears to be driven towards. All religions have had evil leaders take advantage of religious beliefs in order to provide an enemy to "hate" as a unifying factor (this would include politicians today) yet it is interesting to see the absence of Christian marauders roaming North America today beheading any who fail to convert to Christianity. Most people I have met have little to no knowledge on the difference between Shia or Sunni, and why that matters to ISIS who want a new caliphate. I suspect the school had good intentions that were very poorly executed.




Somebody give that man a cigar!


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## Tabitha (Apr 10, 2006)

The 'statement" of the father sure is subject to interpretation. He did not threaten violence, from the little posted here, and the kind of storm he "promised" could be considered taking it up the chain of command. He was upset, and did not use polite language. 
Teachers have to deal with bad language all the time. 
I worked as a sub for a few years. Hard earned money. 








fordy said:


> ............I read most of the questions on the test , they , in NO Way , EDucate the students taking the course about the level of violence , the sadistic killing and beheading of innocent aid workers who pose NO threat to any of the Islamic fighters in any way !
> ............How can any teacher or school district teach a class on Islam that Totally Ignors what Islam has evolved into ? Those questions are so far removed from the Islamic Reality of today it is an Insult to anyone with any knowledge about the various wars fought under the Islamic religion . , fordy


Did you say "evolved into"? 
I am not trying to be smug, condescending or anything the like. but you need to look at the basics. this religion has not evolved into anything. It started out with blood and fighting. 
Mohammed was not cold yet when the fighting started. Ali, adopted son and son in law of Mohammed, who thought he was going to be the next in line as top honcho, was killed instead. It went from there.
Actually, they had spread their religion by the sword the whole time. Maybe that is why they had no qualms about killing each other. 

Sort of if Peter had Paul killed. 
Modus operandi of the early church: go ye therefore into all the world and preach the gospel. 

Islam by comparison: Convert or die

What a question to ask American Schoolchildren, to contemplate what would have happened if the Moslems had won the battle of Tours. Answer: you would be Moslem now and your mommy would not have a driver's licence. If there were cars.


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