# 6 week old lamb looking "uncomfortable": how sick is sick?



## frazzlehead (Aug 23, 2005)

Our six week old bottle lamb (now weaned at 30 lbs) has been looking a bit 'off' the last 2 days.

Today we checked on him more closely: he has no temperature (102F) and does not flinch at being handled and examined everywhere (thought maybe he had an injury but nothing apparent). His tail where it was docked and his goods where the elastrator was applied are looking clean. He eats, although a bit slowly, and stands and walks around, although seems to tire out quickly and prefers to lie down.

The lambs are on creep feed mixed with rolled barley/oat and sheep mineral and a bit of soy. They have fresh water, which he drank when we were watching him.

So what seems "wrong"? Well, he looks like he is in some discomfort - his abdomen, back by the hips, periodically squeezes in like he is clenching and he makes a bit of a harsh breath, like a human would do for an "mmmrmph that hurts" kind of noise, like a hitched breath. We brought him in the house briefly, and he walked around the bathroom, nibbling on EVERYTHING just like when he was a bottle baby in the house. Didn't look "super sick", but he still seemed less than himself.

We drenched him with bloat remedy, although he doesn't have a distended side - that seemed unlikely to do any harm and possibly could help if he was constipated or something like that. 

Any other ideas? What else should I watch for? I figure if he is still eating, drinking, and nibbling on interesting stuff he can't be all that sick ... but this is The Boy's project lamb, and we don't want to lose him!


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## Ross (May 9, 2002)

maybe he's not eating solid foods well enough to be weaned? The tiring easily thing has me thinking he needs more energy. Is he vacinated and wormed?


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## frazzlehead (Aug 23, 2005)

Shots were scheduled for this weekend (Tasvax and dewormer).

I was just reading on Overeating disease and starting to worry ... :S He has been eating solids really well for several weeks now, I am thinking he's overdosed on grain. I'm contemplating a dose of baking soda water in case that's the trouble ... shouldn't hurt, I wouldn't think ... and when I checked on him a bit ago, the anti-bloat didn't seem to have had any real effect.

?


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## Ross (May 9, 2002)

Not a bad plan, I wonder if a shot of LA200 is in order. If he has mild infection I was thinking pnuemonia it will help. Is there a hurry to get him weaned?


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## YuccaFlatsRanch (May 3, 2004)

IS HE PEEING GOOD????

Do you add ammonium chloride to his grain or is it mixed in already. Sounds almost like water-belly, Urinary Calculi, or stones in his urine (same problem different names). If it is Urinary Calculi he can die within a day if his bladder bursts - hence the name water-belly. Watch to see how well he is urinating. Even if he is peeing ok, I would get him on some ammonium chloride immediately anyway. Its CHEAP to buy in bulk at your local feed and grain Mill. Add about 1/4 teaspoon to his grain EVERY DAY. It acidifies his urine and eliminates/prevents stones.

If he is straining to urinate and the urine just dribbles you HAVE A PROBLEM. My vet had me give 4 cc of Pen-G sub q and had me dissolve as much ammonium chloride as I could (supersaturate) in about a cup of water and drench him with it (all I could get down him) every 4-6 hours until he was peeing good. After getting him peeing keep giving the ammonium chloride in his grain (helps to have molasses in the grain to hide the flavor of the Am CHloride) and keep cool cleanwater available all the time. 

Increasing the amount of alfalfa helps too as it has plenty of calcium in it that keeps the calcium/magnesium ratio of the feed proper.

Recomend you also get Laura Lawson's book on "Lamb Problems". It has flow charts that help you figure out what is wrong and what to do about it.


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## frazzlehead (Aug 23, 2005)

Okay, I have brought him in for the night since I'll worry about him constantly anyway and this way I can check on him without needing boots and a coat.  He lived in the house when first born, so this isn't added stress at least!

It looks a lot like a 'gaseous' issue - I drenched him with baking soda in water (he drank half a bottle of it right from the nipple before he realized it wasn't milk, and I used a syringe for the rest) and watched him closely for awhile. Definitely no scours - saw normal action there. What I did see, though, was straining followed by ummm gaseous emissions at the rear end ... and when I sit beside him in the quiet of the house I hear a lot of rumblings in his middle. 

I was thinking perhaps pneumonia, because of the odd breathing, but with no temp and all the other rumbling burbling going on, I am leaning towards acidosis from grain overload or something similar. Those rumbles weren't in time with the breathing ... if he's still in this kind of state tomorrow I'll go downstairs and get out my stethoscope and have a listen to his lungs and belly and see if I can differentiate the noises.

There wasn't any real hurry on the weaning - just that both lambs were doing well on creep and hay, had gained well, and didn't seem to suffer when the milk was cut back to 2 bottles a day. We dropped the last bottle hmmm when was that ... about a week ago, I believe, maybe a bit more. 

They get plenty of "sheep mineral" ... I will have to check the label and see if it's got ammonium chloride in it. We sprinkle the mineral into the creep feed to be sure they get plenty, and there's some in a separate dish as well, plus blocks to lick (one is the molasses kind one is the blue kind).

I'll keep him in tonight so I can be sure if he's peeing normally or not (oi, back to mopping the bathroom floor!) ... and put an order in for that book! 

Thanks everyone, I'll let you know how things progress.


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## YuccaFlatsRanch (May 3, 2004)

"They get plenty of "sheep mineral" ... I will have to check the label and see if it's got ammonium chloride in it. We sprinkle the mineral into the creep feed to be sure they get plenty, and there's some in a separate dish as well, plus blocks to lick (one is the molasses kind one is the blue kind).

I'll keep him in tonight so I can be sure if he's peeing normally or not (oi, back to mopping the bathroom floor!) ... and put an order in for that book!"

USUALLY the sheep minerals do not have Am CHloride. We buy in bulk at about 80 cents a pound and we get a 5 pound bag. Lasts a long time.

Order the book through Laura Lawson's website for the BEST price. Always the cheapest we have found. Just google Laura Lawson.


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## frazzlehead (Aug 23, 2005)

Oh boy, YuccaFlats, am I glad you posted ....

As I was sitting there, keeping an eye on him, I looked under his belly .. something looked wrong, so I used a tissue to wipe at his stomach and ack! bloody urine.

He's drinking lots of water (I have put fresh clean stuff out) and pacing rather uncomfortably ... I have no ammonium chloride around, but I did a quick search and see that apple cider vinegar is also recommended so I will give him a shot of that tonight and get the NH4Cl tomorrow. 

Poor guy! 

I guess it wasn't his tummy after all but a little further down the pipe! I do realize how serious this is - I will call the vet tomorrow for further advice as well.

Thank you SO much for suggesting this as a possibility, I wouldn't even have noticed otherwise.


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## frazzlehead (Aug 23, 2005)

Morning update:

He's still looking uncomfortable, but he's "leaking" a fair bit of urine. The towel he was laying on was pretty wet, and there are splotches all around the floor ... so at least he's not plugged up tight.

His 'solid waste system' is working fine - there were a lot of sheep pellets on the floor this morning! We will keep him in for the day ... The Boy will give him a bowl of alfalfa cubes, and we'll ask Gram to stop at the feed store and get a new bag of alfalfa pellets and some ammonium chloride for him. I drenched him again this morning with apple cider vinegar in water as a holdover measure. He has lots of water and a comfy place to rest. Poor thing looks to be in pain, but at least some urine's leaking out. We'll just have to see if we can get the flow going again!

Thanks again for all the help, everyone!


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## Goatsandsheep (Jun 7, 2006)

How much apple cider vinegar did you give? You need to keep give it till he's pee normal 4-5cc at a time. You can put in all your water buckets for everyone. 1cup in 5 gallons also help keep flies down. Good Luck with him. G&S


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## YuccaFlatsRanch (May 3, 2004)

"Thank you SO much for suggesting this as a possibility, I wouldn't even have noticed otherwise."

Thanks for praise thats not needed - unfortunatly I have been there and done that. I saved one and lost one. All of my rams and whethers get ammonium chloride EVERY DAY.

Blood in the urine is not good and indicates either an infection or worse. I'd get him on antibiotics (pennicillian) FAST.


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## frazzlehead (Aug 23, 2005)

He managed to take probably 1/3 of a cup of diluted apple cider vinegar (the website I found suggested 1/3 cup of vinegar plus 2/3 cup water) before he had absolutely had ENOUGH of the blasted syringe. 

Last night he was only dribbling, this morning there were small puddles, but puddles at least. He took another 1/2 cup of the vinegar mix this morning, and I'm going to get the ammonium chloride today while I'm in town (I am at work now).

I called the vet this am and she figures we're on the right track ... without a fever, we'll hold off on antibioitics but I will keep checking his temp. The blood could just be from physical abrasion of the urethra from the stones, but it certainly bears watching. 

I think I will plan to put the vinegar in everyone's water ... and we'll start the routine use of ammonium chloride right NOW!

I'll let you know how he is when I get home tonight.  Thanks you guys, you are all a great help and support!


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## Goatsandsheep (Jun 7, 2006)

Could he not have been drinking enough water with just being weaned? G&S


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## YuccaFlatsRanch (May 3, 2004)

Lack of water intake would definitely cause a concentration of mineral salts in the urine, but I doubt it would be the whole cause. At about 80 cents US per pound - ammonium chloride is too cheap a safety net not to feed with Rams/whethers grain ration. You only use about 1/4 ounce per day. Making sure the Rams/Whethers have sufficient salt/minerals is a good idea too since this increases their water intake. The more water flowing through the urinary system the better as it keeps flushing the salts out.

Ammonium Chloride is unique in that it acidifies the urine and keeps the salts in solution. Some animals don't like the taste of vinegar in their water, but if they will drink the water that way that would help too.


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## frazzlehead (Aug 23, 2005)

Oh my goodness, this stuff is IMPOSSIBLE to find in Alberta!

My vet and I are both having no luck.


Any Canadians got a lead on where I can order the stuff online? I've called the local feed stores, pharmacies, and chemical companies ... no luck! Can you believe it???


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## YuccaFlatsRanch (May 3, 2004)

I wonder how you can mail it across the border - white powder et al.

PM Ross and see what he says.


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## YuccaFlatsRanch (May 3, 2004)

Here is a link to a Canadian Feed mfgr.

http://www.univarcanada.com/prairiefeed.htm


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## frazzlehead (Aug 23, 2005)

Cool, they have distributors here in town. I've got a call in to them!


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## Ross (May 9, 2002)

I've never had UC so I've never looked for the stuff. Sorry couldn't help.


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## frazzlehead (Aug 23, 2005)

Vet found a pharmacy (a people pharmacy) that has some ... hopefully enough to solve the initial problem. Then I'll follow up with Univar and see if someone will sell me some big bags o' the stuff. 

I could set myself up as the local reseller to all the sheep breeders in the area! oi!


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## Goatsandsheep (Jun 7, 2006)

Some gardening place carry ammonium chloride. G&S


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## frazzlehead (Aug 23, 2005)

Okie dokie: we have a bottle of aluminum chloride and the sheep has had some, dissolved in water. He is looking much less uncomfortable, not heaving as much in the sides and just seeming more relaxed in general. He is eating, and I think I'll put him back outside tonight - although I'm keeping him in for a bit to watch for pee quantities. 

The Boy got home before me and said there were at least 4 hand-sized (okay, HIS hand) puddles (dried up) on the bathroom floor, so clearly he was urinating during the day. 

He's nibbled at the feed he has in front of him (alfalfa hay, a bit of creep and some dried molasses sprinkled on it for incentive) but seems mostly to be resting.

Guess we'll see how things play out from here... not much to do now but keep dosing him, watch, and wait.

Thanks again, all!


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## frazzlehead (Aug 23, 2005)

Later this evening, things with the lamb took a turn for the worse: he was totally plugged up and clearly in a lot of pain. I decided to call in the vet: yep, an expensive trip, but I knew that she could either fix things or end it peacefully (I have yet to acquire the technology to euthanize an animal myself - I own no lethal weapons and the chemicals required are vet-only in Canada).

Unfortunately, things with Cupid the market lamb had gone beyond fixing. The Boy was asleep for most of the work done attempting to solve the problem, but when it was clear we couldn't save the lamb, I went and got The Boy, who came and sat with his lamb while he was put down. Doctor Sarah is very kind and the end was super quick and painless ... which is good, as Cupid had been in pain for a few days already and it really needed to end. I am so relieved that we called her: I learned tonight that a sheep can take days to die when this happens (the urethra had, in fact, burst inside), in horrible pain the whole time ... so it was definitely best to get it done quickly. 

Looking at the economics, it was still worth the cost of a vet visit: now I know what to look for if we run into this problem again. I would have had no idea what I was looking for when physically examinining a sheep and been afraid to euthanize an animal thinking maybe it still had a chance to get better. Doctor Sarah explained what to look for and how to make the call as to whether or not things are beyond hope, and that is good knowledge to have. She is a good teacher.

The Boy is very accpeting of all this: he feels, rightly I think, that as long as we do our best for our animals and try our hardest to keep them safe and reduce their suffering, we have been good shepherds. For this year, he will continue on in 4H with his breeding ewe, Cherub. She is a lovely lamb with a gorgeous fleece, I'm sure he will do well with her!

So, although we lost a lamb tonight, we gained valuable knowledge and we have the peace of knowing that we eased a fellow creature's pain. 

We sent Cupid to the Good Shepherd with all our love, and with thanks for all we learned from him.

Thanks to all of you for your support and help.


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## YuccaFlatsRanch (May 3, 2004)

Frazzlehead - so sorry for your loss.

Was the powder you got ammonium Chloride or aluminum chloride as yoou wrote. They are not the same. Please tell me that it was AMMONIUM Chloride.


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## Goatsandsheep (Jun 7, 2006)

Sorry you loss him. G&S


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## frazzlehead (Aug 23, 2005)

Eek, yes, AMMONIUM! Pretty tired after all this. :S

Good catch...


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## YuccaFlatsRanch (May 3, 2004)

When you get your new lamb start giving him a healthy pinch 1/4 to 1/2 teaspoon on his grain daily. If you feed the grain more than once a day, divide the amount into smaller pinches. 

Other than not tasting so good - salty and bitter (I have tried it - accidently, and yes it burns if it gets in a cut - have tried that too) you can't overdose him (within reason). 

My custom grain mix has it added in and I still add more when I feed - just in case. Mollasses added to the grain helps mask the flavor of the AMMONIUM Chloride. I also have BOVATEC (lasolacid) added to my feed mix to control any possibility of coccidiosis.

Urinary Calculi happens quickly and either recovery or death happens as fast - as you well know. Like my vet says - its so much easier to prevent, than to cure.

You all are in our prayers. However a good lesson in life for youngsters is death. It makes them appreciate the successes and wonderfulness of life.


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