# Digging out a stream to make a "swimming hole"



## mooman (May 19, 2008)

My neighbor and I both have young kids. He's got a small track hoe and we were talking about digging out a stretch of the stream we share to make a wading pool for the kids to splash around in. I know damming a free flowing steam is a no no but what about just widening and deepening the channel? Any who have done likewise with words of advice?


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## sisterpine (May 9, 2004)

i dont know really, but a guy i know in montana straightened a small creek and the feds came down on him like lightening with a huge fine and then he also had to put it back all curvy like it was.


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## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

Same here. Big fines and restitution. Only takes one busy body neighbor or someone with a grudge to turn you in. Even the parents of a kid that your kids tell about your new swimming pond.


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## cfuhrer (Jun 11, 2013)

Some folks on the Green River in Wyoming widened a stream to make waterfowl habitat and now several years later are still doing penance to the EPA.


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## coolrunnin (Aug 28, 2010)

Check with your state dnr. Around here they pull gravel, contour all sorts of things to free flowing streams.


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## jwal10 (Jun 5, 2010)

IF there are any rocks in the creek just make a small dam with them. People do that all the time in the creek here to make "swimming holes". Creek runs right through town. Taking equipment to the creek is a no-no, in or on the bank....James


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

> words of advice?


Buy a swimming pool


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## alleyyooper (Apr 22, 2005)

In Michigan you have to apply for a permit to even dig a pond. My kids and the dog had a ball every summer playing in the creek as it was. Hunting crawdads and catching water bugs and other stuff they always seemed to get soaking wet. Usually by August the creek is as dry as a bone.

 Al


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## just_sawing (Jan 15, 2006)

Be quiet, Do no Harm, take care of your children and have fun. 
Don't try to use the river silt for a dam it does not work.


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## motdaugrnds (Jul 3, 2002)

Here there is an environmental protection department...forgot name of it but your agricultural department/agent should know. The lady from this department came out to look over my acreage so as to let me know IF I could excavate a pond or not. (The neighbor next door owns both sides of the creek and had a pond dug where another creek ran into it...still on his land. Since this did NOT "permanently" stop the flow of the water, it was legal.) The lady from the EPD told me I could put a pond where I wanted it because: Runoff from it would not affect my neighbors property and the area would not cause problems for the county in anyway. Soooooo getting something similar IN WRITING may be something you would be wise to consider.


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## geo in mi (Nov 14, 2008)

Just deepening and/or widening the stream might work for a while, but then fill back up. Maybe a notch or a swirl? Sometimes a log laid in the stream will cause an undercutting current..but it would cause a rushing water situation that might not be too safe for young kids.

geo


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## Darren (May 10, 2002)

As mentioned your state environmental agency can tell you what's allowable. Generally tracked vehicles in a stream are forbidden without a permit. You want to avoid getting a permit. That drags you into regulatory hell.

Figure out a way of doing the work that's low key and not observable. Stream restoration is another ball game. You can do lots of things for stream restoration that might get you hung otherwise. You'd still need a permit, but agencies will help more than hinder.


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## Fishindude (May 19, 2015)

When I was in elementary school, one of the teachers had a beautiful home on a small stream. They had built a concrete dam with an opening that had slots they could slide 2x10's down in to raise the water level. Made a nice swimming hole in the summer, about 6' deep. Rest of the year they took those boards out and let the stream flow freely through the opening in the dam.


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## Glacialtill (Aug 16, 2010)

If you do it by hand, probably no one will notice. If you get a track hoe in there, most likely someone will notice. 

There's a river on my parent's property that I grew up on. It's always changing. Sand comes and goes over the years. Beavers come and go. Trees fall down, and that changes things. 

Little kids should be able to splash around in a stream. Safely. 

I'm sure you can work something out. 

This is good and also a cautionary tale:

http://www.snopes.com/humor/letters/dammed.asp


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## 7thswan (Nov 18, 2008)

We have a culvert,like 10 feet high that lets us cross our stream to get to our woods. On each side there is a nice size "pool" my dogs like to swim in. Maybe you need a culvert.


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## Darren (May 10, 2002)

Look up stream restoration techniques for ways to use nature to provide what you want.


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## TraderBob (Oct 21, 2010)

My neighbors here just did it...the small creek split around a large boulder and a small piece of high ground. Another neighbor brought his dozer over and removed the boulder and some dirt, and they dug the area out.

pretty nice


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

just_sawing said:


> Be quiet, Do no Harm, take care of your children and have fun.
> Don't try to use the river silt for a dam it does not work.


That strategy would work in pre-satellite days.
Google Earth will tell on you now


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## AmericanStand (Jul 29, 2014)

Wedge a two or three foot log across the creek from bank to bank. You want the low flow to go under it but flood waters over it will dig out a hollow downstream. 
You can also use a culvert in place if a log but I recommend cutting a few holes in the top and filling it with silty gravel.


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## bobp (Mar 4, 2014)

Unless its a major tributary it's not likely to draw much attention.... I'd keep the ready excuse of making the land safer for my kids to use.... dig the hole... and go on with life..... the Corpse is not likely to pursue a fine on a small first offense anyway..


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

bobp said:


> Unless its a major tributary it's not likely to draw much attention.... I'd keep the ready excuse of making the land safer for my kids to use.... dig the hole... and go on with life..... the Corpse is not likely to pursue a fine on a small first offense anyway..


The simplest way to find out the stream status is to look at a USGS Topo map.
If it's depicted as a blue line, it's considered natural, free-flowing waterway subject to regulation by the EPA and FEMA as well as local zoning laws.

It's a false assumption to think they will ignore *any *violations concerning altering the flow, no matter if you think it's a "small first offense"

http://www.usgs.gov/water/

http://articles.centralkynews.com/2...28644633_1_blue-line-small-stream-deep-stream



> Small stream to cost Clark County schools *$234,000*
> 
> February 28, 2011|By Bob Flynn | The Winchester Sun
> An 8-inch wide unnamed intermittent stream discovered by the Army Corps of Engineers on the new high school construction site will cost the Clark County Public Schools $234,000, leaving district officials shaking their heads.


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## coolrunnin (Aug 28, 2010)

Interesting how you can either do environmental mitigation and deed 50 yards to the EPA or pay money and do what you want.


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## stanb999 (Jan 30, 2005)

You really have to check your state laws. Here you can dig a hole in a creek to make a swimming hole. But you can't affect more than a certain sq footage of creek and creek bank. 

Each state has there own requirements as far as the federal gov... Your small project wont likely lead to an issue unless the creek is some kind of special case.

P.S. See the article above about the school district. They want to make a "creek" mowed lawn. That's the issue. A change in use.


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## AmericanStand (Jul 29, 2014)

A randum log across the creek looks pretty natural.


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## BarbadosSheep (Jun 27, 2011)

in the old days, you could get by with damming a creek because no one would notice. now days, with satellite images and planes flying over, you can bet it WILL get noticed and by the wrong people. we almost got into some really serious trouble with the Army corp. We bought land that had the beginnings of a pond already on it. it had been there for 40 years. The overflow from this pond went across our neighbors property, sort of like a creek. only it wasn't a natural creek, it was man made. it flowed across the back corner of their property and into the swamp. That pond was fed with spring water. And this land was never officially wet lands. Well, when we decided to make the dam higher and wider, we stopped the overflow. And our neighbor's wife had a fit. she called the authorities on us for damming up "her" creek, which was really just the overflow from our pond. They authorities swarmed us like bees on honey. They did all sorts of core samples to try to determine if we destroyed wet lands, among other things. Threatened us with fines of $100,000. they finally finished their testing and said they would get back to us. Thankfully they never did. It's been 5 years now, not a peep out of them. Guess they decided we didn't break any laws. But let me tell you that was a stressful time.


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## wy_white_wolf (Oct 14, 2004)

If you build or create a small waterfall the hole will dig itself. It will also be self cleaning.

WW


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## rambler (Jan 20, 2004)

Its interesting how much this affects nature and neighbors, but its no big deal to many.

On other topics, the world is going to end for much smaller deals.

Don't matter, just find it interesting.

In my state, you probably would need 4 agencies to sign off on it, and still someone would come around and complain and want you to do differently.

Paul


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## Lisa in WA (Oct 11, 2004)

bobp said:


> Unless its a major tributary it's not likely to draw much attention.... I'd keep the ready excuse of making the land safer for my kids to use.... dig the hole... and go on with life..... the Corpse is not likely to pursue a fine on a small first offense anyway..


We have a tiny creek at separates our land from the nearest neighbor. They pumped water out of it to irrigate a lawn. Our horses were fenced out of it but we pumped water into a big trough so they didn't destroy the stream banks. 

Neighbor turned us in because our sheep got out and ate her flowers. Luckily we'd already gotten a permit from the Army Corp of Engineers.

You're playing with fire to mess around with a creek, no matter how small.


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