# Calf won't eat grain...



## HomesteadBaker

We have a heiffer calf , 1/2 holstein 1/2 angus, she was born 11/28/07. She looks good and has a good appetite for milk and alfalfa hay, but won't eat the calf manna... even mixed with corn and sweet feed to try to interest her. Should we be worried? I am trying to wean her, she is on 2 bottles of milk a day and I want to drop her down to 1 per day, but hubby is worried that since she isn't eating the grain that maybe she won't be getting enough to eat/nutrition. The hay she is eating is good alfalfa that I also feed to my goats. 

So, do we need to try to entice her to eat the grain somehow? And can I continue the step-down in the weaning even if she doesn't eat the grain? 

I don't have this problem with my goats! LOL

Thanks.
Kitty


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## Guest

She needs to be eating about 3 lbs of grain per day before you take her off milk. Until her rumen is developed enough (which it isn't until they are a few months old) they cannot get enough nutrients out of hay. What I would do, is remove the hay, at least for most of the day. Give her a small amount, but cut her way back. Then, when you are done bottle feeding, take a handful or two of the calf manna and feed it to her. Literally put it into her mouth. Usually after a few days they will start eating it by themselves. Just leave enough in her trough/bucket or whatever you are using, a couple handfuls is enough until she starts eating it. Make sure she has free choice water.


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## topside1

Kitty I hate to tell ya but the calf should have been eating very small amounts of grain at around 2-3 weeks old. If it were my calf I would start feeding it milk once a day, and as mentioned above force feed her some grain (training). Cutting out one feeding of milk per day should encourage her appetite. If you didn't have such good hay the heifer would be knocking you down for a pan of grain....Kidding, she be alright.


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## littlejoe

You might try too, to top dress the hay with a small amount of grain. It might help get them started earlier next time.


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## Ronney

Kitty, my situation is a little different to your in that my calves are on grass from the day they are born so I don't get too worried if they don't eat their calf meal or whatever. 

I would suggest to start cutting down her morning milk feed, removing the hay and leaving a small amount of manna for her. As she starts to feel a bit empty, the chances are very high that she will investigate it and within a few days, start eating it. Have you got grass you can put her out on to during the day. There is a perception that cattle "need" all sorts of grains when in fact good grass will do the job just as well, and in fact, better.

Cheers,
Ronnie


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## JeffNY

Kitty,


Get a bag of milk replacer, unless you already have some. It helps to encourage them to eat grain. Feed the replacer, then leave some grain in front of the calf. She should start sampling it.


I have a heifer that didn't want any grain back in October, she wanted milk and hay. So I cut back the hay some, bought some replacer, and fed grain. She came back on grain and since has been eating grain.


Jeff


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## BeltieBandit

The best thing I can think to tell you is to sprinkle some milk replace on the grain. Then put the calf by it so that it can get the smell. I would try this, and some of the other suggestions. I would not withold food from her though, just change how you present it. If you have other calves that you can put it with that are eating grain, that would also work.


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## Teacupliz

I shove some in their mouths at first they think you are nuts but they get the taste and like it.
Liz


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## copperhead46

what I always did, (back when I was feeding bottle babies) was to pull the nipple out of their mouth, and put my fingers, full of grain in. It took a few times but they learn the taste and feel of the grain. I would just kinda cup my fingers into a chute and feed sweet feed. It always worked.
P.J.


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## Jay

Is there any reason she NEEDS to eat the grain??
Good rumen development comes from hay and grass.
To take hay away (grass, or otherwise) slows down the rumen development you want a cow to have as an adult. Pouring grain into them purt'near guarantees you will be 'conditioning' the body to rely on grain for nutrition too early.
I see this problem with the kids' show projects...push the feed into them, they get fat. After the shows are over, put 'em out to pasture and they go downhill fast. Grass and hay should ALWAYS come first (free-choice), it is what they are designed to eat.

Grain is good for extra calories and energy, but a cow doesn't need it to live. (The exception is a high-producing lactating dairy cow).
Saves money on the wallet by not feeding it, too. 

Personally I'd keep her on the alfalfa, good protein content there, and start giving her 1 bottle/day to slowly wean her.


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## ozark_jewels

Gotta admit, I'm with the last poster. If she is eating good quality alfalfa, why push her to eat grain?? She will pick up the habit if you keep trying her and she will get lots of protien and calcium from her alfalfa.


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## Riverdale

Jay said:


> Is there any reason she NEEDS to eat the grain??
> Good rumen development comes from hay and grass.
> To take hay away (grass, or otherwise) slows down the rumen development you want a cow to have as an adult. Pouring grain into them purt'near guarantees you will be 'conditioning' the body to rely on grain for nutrition too early.
> I see this problem with the kids' show projects...push the feed into them, they get fat. After the shows are over, put 'em out to pasture and they go downhill fast. Grass and hay should ALWAYS come first (free-choice), it is what they are designed to eat.
> 
> Grain is good for extra calories and energy, but a cow doesn't need it to live. (The exception is a high-producing lactating dairy cow).
> Saves money on the wallet by not feeding it, too.
> 
> Personally I'd keep her on the alfalfa, good protein content there, and start giving her 1 bottle/day to slowly wean her.


A BIG +1 on this, Jay!

Cows are ruminants, which mean they are designed to eat fiberous material (ie WE can eat oats, corn and molasses, but can you imagine us trying to eat grass stalks?).

Graining calves is way overrated, and increases the out-of-pocket for something they really don't need.

I grew up on a dairy farm (80 head) and my uncle has beef (500+ cow-calf plus finishing). From my experience, unless finishing or lactating (high producer, 75# or more) grain is NOT required.


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## kens

dittos on the last two post.


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## randiliana

The problem is this, a young calf does not have a fully functional rumen. What this means is that it cannot digest hay well enough to get the required nutrients, and especially energy out of it. If you only feed a young calf (under 3-4 months) hay, you will basically starve it. Ever seen an orphan calf that was left out with the herd?? They are potbellied, stunted, and will never be good doers. If you want an animal that is either going to take 3-4 years to make breeding size, or one that never will, stick with the idea that a calf doesn't need grain.....

Here are some really good links....

http://www.calfnotes.com/pdffiles/CN019.pdf
http://www.calfnotes.com/pdffiles/CN020.pdf


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## JeffNY

If your trying to grow a heifer for show, or simply want to frame her out. You do have to feed grain, and balance it in a way that she gets a sufficent quantity, and grows off it.


I never fed grain to beef cattle, and they developed fine. Of course drinking milk off their mothers was sufficent energy, so it wasn't needed. 

It all depends what your goals are, personally I have noticed when feeding less grain, my production slides back some. So the differnce is there, its mostly energy related..


Jeff


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## genebo

My cattle eat grass. The babies begin nibbling grass when they're just a few days old. By the time they're two months old, they're eating it constantly, whenever they aren't playing or nursing. I'm lucky if I can get them to eat any sweetfeed before they're two months old. I only feed it to them because once they learn to like it, it makes them easier to gentle and train.

Grain is not a natural part of a cow's diet. It takes some conditioning before they can handle it. Too much too quick causes problems.

Grain was developed as a cattle feed when we had a big corn glut back last century. People started putting steers in dry feed lots and feeding them grain, because it was cheaper than buying more land and feeding grass.

When a steer is first put into a feed lot and started on grain, he may lose quite a bit of weight! Scours are common. It's quite a shock to the system. The rumen has to change the bugs that inhabit it and even the pH level. Once the rumen has become more acidic, due to the grain diet, then conditions are right for the growth of the E Coli bacteria that is harmful to humans.

So it's not necessary to feed grain to calves. They grow quite well on grass and hay and make healthier, better tasing beef. It takes a little longer to put on the weight, that's all.

Genebo
Paradise Farm


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## Jay

From the 'calfnotes' (first one), last paragraph:
"After about 6 weeks of age, hay does become an important - in fact, a critical component of the ruminant diet. 
Feed high quality hay to young calves. Their growth and health will be a direct function of the quality of the feed provided and your level of management."

Hay or grass should ALWAYS be available to a cow, even a young calf.
Those with their mothers will eat hay/grass/whatever faster than one that is not with adult cows. Babies at 7-10 days old with their mama's I have observed chewing a cud. Hey, may not be much of a 'cud', but it's chewing a cud!
Bottle-fed babies take longer, they don't have a 'cow teacher', and have to learn on their own.....
Letting them have hay gives them the opportunity to get that rumen going....if there is no hay, it will take longer. 

I DID NOT post any of this to tick people off, but to point out a few things.
It IS too easy to get caught up in the 'grain/feedlot feeding' type of a trap. 
Who makes the money when you are pouring all this 'stuff' into the calves???
Hmmmm. The feed guy LIKES to recommend and sell you things, that is his job. 

Bottom line is: what is the least cost to produce good beef/replacements? Grass and Hay. I do know that 'bottle babies' take longer...give them some time. 
Jay


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## JeffNY

I beg to differ. Talk to those who feed heifers to grow that do feed grain. Hay is important, however grain is energy, and they need that energy for frame growth. Hay tends to help with rib development, and body depth, along with the rumen working properly (fiber).


However, too much hay can lead to a hay gut, and depending on the quality of hay it can make up for the grain more so. Personally, I have done both. I feed 10lbs of grain to two heifers I am growing for show this spring/summer a day. I also feed them baleage. One is 51 1/2", born July 12th 2007, the other is 2 weeks younger, but her sire is known for not fathering tall heifers and is 50 1/2". The heifer born July 12th should be about 53 perhaps up to 54" by mid-April (first show). If I had been feeding hay only, I doubt I would have the same growth rates. One thing I have noticed with feeding grain more so than the baleage is the lack of weight (fat), they are putting on. They are growing lean muscle which is important with these guys, and any dairy cow. They are also growing as mentioned in another post I made, a good frame.


I did feed more baleage last year, than grain. Those heifers actually became fat, which is not a good thing. I also fed hay only to some steers once, and they were 99% or so lean (butcher couldn't find a bit of fat on them). However I fed a steer the last 45 days of his life grain, and he marbled really nice and I guess the meat melted in their mouths.


Grass fed beef is fine, and I am not knocking it. But dairy's purpose are milk, and fat heifers are not a good thing. You want good condition on them, but not fat. Regular dry hay wont fatten them up, however they can develop a hay gut. 

Either way, like I said, ask those who feed for growth (dairy), you will find they feed a good quantity of grain, along with hay/baleage. Another thing too, manure out of any dairy heifers should not be solid, it should have a somewhat loose consistency to it. If its too dry, they could very well be lacking enough in their diet.


Jeff


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## Jay

How each of us decides to grain or not to grain is up to what fits best into whatever situation we have.
I do give my steers some grain in the colder months, but I don't force them to eat it, either. If I have a supply of good Alfalfa for the winter, then I don't feed the grain. 
Once the grass is up, they get no grain, grass/pasture only. 

As a homesteader-type, I obviously do not have a desire to be doing what everyone else does. I am not concerned about 'the standards' like those that show do. Critters have to 'earn their keep' here, and if I have to pour grain into them to keep them 'in condition', they either go to the locker or the salebarn. (The exception is the milk cow who IS earning her keep giving milk to us, and a couple of calves.) 

I am the last one to say "It's wrong" or "It's right". What you do and I do may be different, but we want the same result: a healthy, happy cow.


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## sammyd

> Successful calf raisers encourage calves to eat calf starter during the first few days of life by putting starter in the calvesâ mouths after feeding milk or milk replacer. The calf starter is much more important than hay for rumen development. In fact, hay will actually retard rumen development. Hay doesnât need to be fed until near the end of the milk feeding period


http://extension.usu.edu/dairy/files/uploads/htms/feedcalf.htm



> Volatile fatty acids, primarily butyrate and propionate, are responsible for the metabolic development of the rumen. Carbo-hydrates from grains or grain by-products (starch) are a better source of VFAs than carbohydrates from forages (cellulose, lignin), therefore you can enhance rumen development by feeding a grain-based starter and limiting or not feeding forages until after weaning.


http://www.farmandranchguide.com/articles/2006/03/03/ag_news/livestock_news/live24.txt


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## topside1

Very interesting thread folks...My bottle calves are regularly eating grains @ three weeks of age. Although they have good hay available they are rarely eating any of it, just a piece here or there and that's about it. I'm also experimenting with the Braden nipple type grain feeder right now, so far I'm a believer....Once again great thread.


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## ozark_jewels

If it was my calf, I wouldn't worry about her not eating grain. If she is younger than three-four months I just would not wean her quite yet. She will eventually pick up on grain eating...especially if there is another animal in the same pen who eats grain in front of her.


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## Riverdale

Too much grain leads to too much fat, which leads to breeding problems.

We monitored our calf grain consumption (and well as that of dry cows) closely. It stinks having a cow lose a calf or not breed back because it was too fat.

Cows were designed to eat grass.


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## randiliana

The thing is here, you can't compare calves that are on a cow, to calves that are being bottle fed. Bottle fed calves are not getting the same nutrition as calves on a cow. A calf that is on its mama, gets milk until it is weaned, usually at 5-8 months, by this time their rumens are completely developed, and they can get the required nutrients out of hay.

Bottle calves, on the other hand, get fed milk 2-3 times a day, and then are weaned at about 8 weeks of age. At 8 weeks, their rumens are not completly developed. Not only that, but a 8 week old calf is weighing about 200 - 250 lbs, in approx 1 years time you need that calf to be big enough to breed. You pretty much need that calf to put on 1.5 lbs/day to hit puberty, let alone be big enough to breed. 

I have been in the cattle business long enough to know what an calf needs to grow out decently. Too much grain = too much fat is true enough, but unless you are feeding extreme amounts of grain, or graining a calf that is on the cow that is a non-issue. Most of us are not in the business of finishing cattle, and 4-5 lbs of grain is not going to make a fat animal out of a growing calf. It just gives them the required nutrients to grow out properly, instead of being stunted.


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## sammyd

We have always fed grain to the calves. Starter is available from at least day 3.
As a boy and young adult we ran dairy and milk was expensive to feed to calves so we used milk replacer supplemented with waste milk and weaned at 6-7 weks.

Currently we do not have a nurse cow so we run MR and wean after 50 days.
I want a calf to be able to hit the ground running when I stop the milk and feeding starter has proven to be the best.
We switch to 16% till about 400 lbs then we switch to 14%. 
The dairy replacements we try to keep at a rate of gain of 1.5-2 pounds a day.
Beefers we shoot for at least 3. And feed accordingly.

I always have a hard time believing anyone who says that it's natural for cows to eat grass but unnatural for them to eat grain which is basically seeds from grasses.


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## JeffNY

My milk approach is different than others, but I have had good luck and they grow well. What I do is feed milk up till they are 5 or so months old, along with grain and hay and water. I feed 3x, and up to a gallon 3x. At the moment we are feeding one that was born on Jan 12th 3x, she gets two cups of milk replacer at the noon feeding, and a gallon morning/night. She is growing like a weed. She also gets grain/water and hay.

What I try to do is simulate what they would do on their mothers. They do seem to respond well to it..


Now we did cut off a heifer back in the summer of 06, and it did show with her growth. She slowed down, and I do beleive she isn't as tall as she could be if I had fed her milk for 4-5 months, and grained more. Her sister at the same age is taller (approx time, they are different age wise).


Another benefit to growing animals up faster (without getting fat), is breeding time. I calved out a heifer recently, she calved about 1 yr 10mth. She is as tall as the 3yr olds (some are going on 4 this spring). She wasn't fed as aggressively as these heifers, however was fed grain from fairly early on..


Every situation is different, but I felt too much grain wasn't needed, or atleast certain grain etc. But after raising these two summer yearlings the way I have, the difference is clear.


But balence out the ration properly, or you can make them fat. The grain I feed is what I feed the dairy cows, it is 15.6% or so prot. I mix in some soybean meal to up protein % some. Too much energy can make a tall lanky heifer, too much protein can make a short squatty heifer. So a good balence is key, and soybean meal has high energy as well as protein. 

There are some studys out there about accelerated growth. There are grains formulated for this, some feed 2lbs of soybean meal to show heifers a day, along with TONS of dry hay and plenty of water. I found what I have been feeding to be better than the 32% protein feed from Blue Seal. The meal seems to be better, as they eat that without fuss.. Another thing I have added in, is Rumensin... That isn't needed, but it can help against certain things.. I was talking with someone who grows heifers for showing, and sells some as well. He feeds baleage, and a 18% grain. He feeds the same quantity as I do. He competes in Canada, so height is important... Like I said, balence it, and they wont get fat..


I use show age heifers as an example, since growth is more important (size matters in the ring, unfortunately). I am not sure of the weight gain for these heifers. But it seems their frames are growing, legs etc. They aren't gaining excess weight. I also read that too much gain can cause production problems later on. Anything over 2 or so lowers 1st lactation production. At up to 2.6lbs, the difference over 1.8lbs is 3000 or so lbs.. I found this info in either hoards, or some other publication.. But those 2.5lbs or so weight gains is likely fat, not frame.


Jeff


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## Haggis

We've had an experience of late which has caused us to seriously rethink the feeding of grains, or rather "mixed grain feeds". Our Tulip, now about 3 1/2, has been eating, in varying amounts, the same prepared 18% dairy ration everyday since she was 6 weeks old. When of a sudden neither she, her calf, or a 18 month old steer we are raising for next falls' beef would touch a newly opened bag of said feed. I at first thought it to be a "bad bag" but as it turned out the feed store had opted, "due to the cold weather" to reduce the amount of molasses in the mix; odd they had never done this before, ever.

Tulip's milk production dropped to nearly half, and she clearly looks to have lost weight, what with the demands of the cold weather, her calf, and her homestead family. Fresh grass is yet 3 months away, our hay is of the lack luster 7% to 12% protein run of the mill farm offerings, and we are at the mercy of the feed store for a constant scented and pleasant tasting feed for our few head of cattle. (She and her barn mates have at last, after a week-long stand off, begun licking at the dull tasting feed, but they still look at me as if I just poured out a bucket of dirt upon which they are invited to dine.)

Our plan for this summer, is to search out a higher protein (higher priced one wagers) hay source then switch to and begin feeding, limited amounts of plain barley (a locally grown grain) as our grain supliment. When our wee Mary, now just three months old, has calved and begun milking, we do not want her so "hooked" on a specific feed mix that she, we, and her calf will suffer for want of it.

As some have mentioned above, grain is foreign to the bovine diet, or it of a certain was at one time; a calf doesn't need it to thrive. Perhaps a dairy calf would be better off left to nurse its mum for 5 or 6 months rather than the accepted 3 months so oft repeated in farming circles. Certainly beef cows are allowed to keep their calves on milk longer than dairy cows. Leaving the calf on the cow, and giving the youngster plenty of fresh water, grass or hay would end this worry of; when are they eating enough to allow them to be weaned. I am of course speaking from the crofter's perspective rather than the dairyman's for whom every CWT of milk can be counted as potential income.


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## JeffNY

I was reading somewhere that the faroahs fed grain to their cattle. So its not all that foreign..


Also Haggis, have you considered looking at a corn meal/soybean meal/distillers/soy hulls/wheat mids mix? The grain I feed does not have molasses in it (would stick to the sides of the bin). The protein I have mine at as I mentioned, 15.6% or so. They milk well off it. Sure they are getting baleage, but I did toy with higher protein grains and saw less production..


Jeff


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## Haggis

JeffNY said:


> I was reading somewhere that the faroahs fed grain to their cattle. So its not all that foreign..
> 
> 
> Also Haggis, have you considered looking at a corn meal/soybean meal/distillers/soy hulls/wheat mids mix? The grain I feed does not have molasses in it (would stick to the sides of the bin). The protein I have mine at as I mentioned, 15.6% or so. They milk well off it. Sure they are getting baleage, but I did toy with higher protein grains and saw less production..
> 
> 
> Jeff


There isn't much by way of choice in feeds up here and "back of beyond"; the nearest corn field is more than 100 miles to the south, centers of commerce are 100 miles further. All feed grain choices, mixed or otherwise are imported and very limited; except barley is and may be grown locally.

As for molasses, the farm supplier who supply's our local feed store does or at least always has added molasses to some degree to their dairy feed; it's enough that even I can smell it. Our cattle have grown used to it, one supposes they may eventually get used to the lack of it.

I try to add enough of this 18% dairy feed to our milk cow(s) diet to bring the low protein forage up to the 15% daily average one hears so much about.


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## JeffNY

They will adjust to it. I switched grains around quite a bit for a while, and even though they snubbed their nose at it, they did get used to it. Just keep it in front of them, and eventually they will eat it as if it has been the choice right along.


Jeff


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## genebo

I believe you can teach them to eat almost any proper food. It should be done slowly to allow the rumen to adjust.

At one of our seminars, we were told that a cow is just a bag of skin that holds the bacterium that digest the food.


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