# Any Cordwooder and earthbagers?



## countryboy84 (Dec 8, 2010)

Wanting to see if there was any others here. I am really big into these two building methods and really believe these to not only be more envormently friend but are stronger and longer lived then standard building methods. 

Seen an articale on earthbag where a dumb truck was hooked to it and was unable to move it. This was an unfinished building too. If you try that with a stick farmed house the truck would never feel the house as it dragged it away.

Cordwood building in Greece are thought to be around a 1000 years old. Can't say that about any standrad building method.


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## Homely (Aug 22, 2007)

It sounds like a good combination! I didn't know cordwood dated back that far. Without a good supply of free wood, I've been looking more at the earthbag side of that. Lots of free dirt around here.


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## Wisconsin Ann (Feb 27, 2007)

I was in a cordwood house not long ago. Very easy way to create a wonderful space without needing to make square joints or walls  They used wine bottles in the walls every so often to let in this wonderful color and light. (cut off the tops and put 2 bottoms end to end) 

They'd put a large pole in the center-ish of the main room to support the roof, then run timbers out from the pole to the walls. Over that they did planks, and shingles on the outside. Smaller rooms off the main room for bedrooms and kitchen. 

Overall it had a very fluid movement to it. Bev said it took them just a couple of weeks to build the basic structure. Planning things like plumbing and electrical outlets was done way before hand. Wind turbine and solar for the electric. They just ran the wiring along the walls in a chair-rail. Every so often there is an outlet in the chair-rail.


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## countryboy84 (Dec 8, 2010)

Yeah cordwood is very old. To me one of the best things about it since I got a free supply of wood and sawdust for insulation, is well the insulation factor. My walls are going to be 20 inches thick giving me close to a R-40 house. Be nice and easy to heat. I am using rammed tires and earthbags for my stem wall. Split oak shingle on the steep pitched roof. Should last bout 100 years befor I have to do anything to it. Which I figure I will not be here then. Do it right means you only have to do it once.


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## texican (Oct 4, 2003)

I cut a few cords of cypress, thinking it'd be great for a cordwood experiment. Termites ate all of the sapwood. Wondering if it was ever a great idea, in an area like where I'm at, with extremely high levels of humidity and ground moisture. So, I got 'scairt' and passed on cordwood. If termites can get up and into cypress and 'core it' out, I'd hate to go to the trouble of building a whole house, and then have it 'collapse' around me. 

So, I'm going with stone for the exterior.

Still have hope I can possibly have an interior wall out of cordwood, where there'd be no fear of insect varmints.

I know a lot of folks don't fear termites.... they just poison their homesite with toxic chemicals and hope it doesn't affect their bodies.


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## Rick (May 10, 2002)

texican said:


> I cut a few cords of cypress, thinking it'd be great for a cordwood experiment. Termites ate all of the sapwood. Wondering if it was ever a great idea, in an area like where I'm at, with extremely high levels of humidity and ground moisture. So, I got 'scairt' and passed on cordwood. If termites can get up and into cypress and 'core it' out, I'd hate to go to the trouble of building a whole house, and then have it 'collapse' around me.
> 
> So, I'm going with stone for the exterior.
> 
> ...


Our last stick built home had a fake brick veneer exterior front wall. Termites got in between and literally ett us out of house and home.

To the OP.... we have a 4 foot cordwood base walls , with 5 foot vertical log upper walls. Gables too. I'll post some thoughts and pics about the project soon. soon


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## adamtheha (Mar 14, 2007)

I have used earthbags to build a cistern, and a shallow frost-protected foundation. They worked well, and it's easier than you see in those youtube videos that you've probably already seen. Pour the dirt in the bag, lay the bag down, tuck the flap over, and pound with a tamper. Coat with plaster, and you're done! It's a lot of work to fill bags, and it's hard to find them cheap, but new they were about $0.80 each. 
I saw something that was even better using a looong tube of mesh, the kind they pack fruit in. The guys made a funnel, and just poured a continuous layer, pounding it flat as it went. You can't do that on your own, but you could with bags.


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## countryboy84 (Dec 8, 2010)

I think that the verticale log homes look odd. I mean the are good homes and all and can be good looking just not for me. How did you build a cistern out of earth bags. I know it has been done but think to dail no youtube for me. Nothing much on the web about that just little bits. cause I would like to do the same and maybe a root cellar also.


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## rickfrosty (Jun 19, 2008)

Rick said:


> Our last stick built home had a fake brick veneer exterior front wall. Termites got in between and literally ett us out of house and home.
> 
> To the OP.... we have a 4 foot cordwood base walls , with 5 foot vertical log upper walls. Gables too. I'll post some thoughts and pics about the project soon. soon


Interesting. I had seen old upright log buildings in a sporting camp I worked at as a kid, so finally built a house on a concrete foundation (slab & 'stack & bond' block) w/upright logs. That was about 4 houses back - came out pretty good, but someone asked me to sell it.
If you think about it the logs 'check' (crack open) & in conventional log homes the rain water will stay in those cracks (bottom logs rot in old houses), but if you flash the bottom of your upright logs somehow the water will tend to run down the crack & off the wall.

What I've never understood about cordwood building is how do you seal up all of those same 'checks' going parallel w/log (or log chunk)? Seems drafty, but maybe people just caulk em all ?


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## countryboy84 (Dec 8, 2010)

in corwood building there are many ways to seal up checking and cracks. A lot of time the check in the wood will not go all the way through the log. It takes some really bad checking to go all the way through a 16 inch long stick of wood. The mortar cracks a fill with mortar, log chinking, cob, or sometime caulking. A well built cordwood wall that is 16 inchs thick with lime/sawdust insulation in the space between the mortar ends has an R-value over R-25. Way above that of a normal stick built home. They also normaly test high on the air loss tests. The geenhomebuilding web site talks of this and so do the Cordwood Chonicles.


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## Rick (May 10, 2002)

Our walls are 12 inches thick. We planed and routed a groove in each vertical log joint, and pressed in backer rod, but you can still see daylight. No backer rod and chinking to address that yet. Temp. Inside has been 34 deg. F or higher in spite of this, even with temps outside as low as zero.


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## cordwoodguy (Apr 24, 2005)

countryboy84 said:


> wanting to see if there was any others here. I am really big into these two building methods and really believe these to not only be more envormently friend but are stronger and longer lived then standard building methods.
> 
> Seen an articale on earthbag where a dumb truck was hooked to it and was unable to move it. This was an unfinished building too. If you try that with a stick farmed house the truck would never feel the house as it dragged it away.
> 
> Cordwood building in greece are thought to be around a 1000 years old. Can't say that about any standrad building method.


country boy.......there are no 1000 year old cordwood structures in the world.
Not in norway,siberia nor greece.....the authors made it up! But it sure gets one interested to think they could build their own home that would last for 1000 years.rob also said there was a clay tablet that was 3000 years old with instructions about building cordwood homes on it.again it only exists
in his mind.


Cordwoodguy
ps: I use uppercase because of a visual disability...sorry!


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## cordwoodguy (Apr 24, 2005)

texican said:


> i cut a few cords of cypress, thinking it'd be great for a cordwood experiment. Termites ate all of the sapwood. Wondering if it was ever a great idea, in an area like where i'm at, with extremely high levels of humidity and ground moisture. So, i got 'scairt' and passed on cordwood. If termites can get up and into cypress and 'core it' out, i'd hate to go to the trouble of building a whole house, and then have it 'collapse' around me.
> 
> So, i'm going with stone for the exterior.
> 
> ...


texican..........if you treat the wood with a borax mix[2 cups of borax per gallon of warm water] any insect that eats the wood dies.in the case of termites they utilize micro organisms in their intestinal region to digest wood.the borax kills them.
Also try building 24" off the ground as termites don`t like to have their mud tubes over 18".use metal shields on the stem wall.now tom huber builds a 24" rock wall before he starts with his cordwood.

Cordwoodguy


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## cordwoodguy (Apr 24, 2005)

wisconsin ann said:


> i was in a cordwood house not long ago. Very easy way to create a wonderful space without needing to make square joints or walls  they used wine bottles in the walls every so often to let in this wonderful color and light. (cut off the tops and put 2 bottoms end to end)
> 
> they'd put a large pole in the center-ish of the main room to support the roof, then run timbers out from the pole to the walls. Over that they did planks, and shingles on the outside. Smaller rooms off the main room for bedrooms and kitchen.
> 
> Overall it had a very fluid movement to it. Bev said it took them just a couple of weeks to build the basic structure. Planning things like plumbing and electrical outlets was done way before hand. Wind turbine and solar for the electric. They just ran the wiring along the walls in a chair-rail. Every so often there is an outlet in the chair-rail.


ann...........you can run the wiring through conduit just like a normal house.this is the best way as you can still run additional wires through the conduit later on as the need arrises for more outlets etc.

Cordwoodguy


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## cordwoodguy (Apr 24, 2005)

rickfrosty said:


> interesting. I had seen old upright log buildings in a sporting camp i worked at as a kid, so finally built a house on a concrete foundation (slab & 'stack & bond' block) w/upright logs. That was about 4 houses back - came out pretty good, but someone asked me to sell it.
> If you think about it the logs 'check' (crack open) & in conventional log homes the rain water will stay in those cracks (bottom logs rot in old houses), but if you flash the bottom of your upright logs somehow the water will tend to run down the crack & off the wall.
> 
> What i've never understood about cordwood building is how do you seal up all of those same 'checks' going parallel w/log (or log chunk)? Seems drafty, but maybe people just caulk em all ?


rick........if you fell,season and treat the logs properly you can basicly eliminate checking.some commercial wood treatments say they virtually eliminate checking as well.plus it takes about 2-3 years for logs to properly season.at this stage if there is any checking going to surface it would be now.then all you do is lay the check side down in the wall so it drains naturally.possibly fill the check with perma ***** at the outside ends.
Also,you could split these ones completely for sections around windows and doors,sill plates and top plates etc.

Cordwoodguy


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## cordwoodguy (Apr 24, 2005)

countryboy84 said:


> in corwood building there are many ways to seal up checking and cracks. A lot of time the check in the wood will not go all the way through the log. It takes some really bad checking to go all the way through a 16 inch long stick of wood. The mortar cracks a fill with mortar, log chinking, cob, or sometime caulking. A well built cordwood wall that is 16 inchs thick with lime/sawdust insulation in the space between the mortar ends has an r-value over r-25. Way above that of a normal stick built home. They also normaly test high on the air loss tests. The geenhomebuilding web site talks of this and so do the cordwood chonicles.


countryboy..........the sawdust lime insulation is the main reason wind blows through cordwood walls.people building by the books don`t season the logs enough nor seal the logs when mudding.then the logs shrink in the mortar matrix leaving gaps and the wind blows freely into your home.i use styrofoam beads and properly seasoned logs.if a gap might form the beads will settle and fill the void.
Strawbale and conventional cordwood don`t do that well in a blower door test due to the gaps in the wall.plus the poor bond between wood and mortar.however,if built right you can avoid the air penetration.
The cococo talk is cheap!!!!all the participants are authors and promote their books...dah!


Cordwoodguy


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## cordwoodguy (Apr 24, 2005)

rick said:


> our walls are 12 inches thick. We planed and routed a groove in each vertical log joint, and pressed in backer rod, but you can still see daylight. No backer rod and chinking to address that yet. Temp. Inside has been 34 deg. F or higher in spite of this, even with temps outside as low as zero.


rick....in your case you should have cut kerfs adjacent each other and put in a spline.[piece of plywood to fit the kerfs]

cordwoodguy


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## countryboy84 (Dec 8, 2010)

cordwoodguy.. alot of different sources state the old buildings in greece not just Rob. May not be true but then again there are ones in US and Canada that we know are 100 years old and some that are over that. 
And there have been the blower door test done that have been very tight. All drying wood will check. Kiln dryed wood even will some times on the very end if the drying process is done to fast. Been a sawyer on and off since I was about 8( I think that is frist time I grabed the stick on a mill) learned a lot in almost 20 years so I feel I know my wood rather well. Also most people building cordwood homes understand that there will be some shrinkage and swelling in the logs due to the change of relative humdity while seasoned wood does so less it still does. But then again all wood will do it if the wood is not sealed and can aborsb humidity. Sealed woods have to be sealed ever so often or they start to take on water again if it is there for the taking.. So after the wall is up some log Jam or perma ***** will lock the house up tight. The type of insulation that you use other then spray foam, does not stop wind from coming in holes very well. Bated fiberglass does a rather good job but any type that is loose will not do as good of a job, be it beads or sawdust or rice hulls. And it if was able to settle down a fill the gap then there is a new gap at the top of the wall due to settleing. This is a poblem with many type of insulation including sawdust, rice hulls, and even modern types like cellulose. The only time that I have seen people build with less then season wood, when they have done there resreach, is when it is a hard wood. This keeps the swell factor down then you just fix the gaps as it shrinks. Cause if you take seasoned oak or even kiln dryed oak and expose it to the elements like in a house wall it will swell enough to pull a nail loose. You can see this in many old barns. This is one reason why stick framed houses have some sort of sideing be it wood, brick, vynale or the like helps stop the moisture from reaching the studs which if they swelled could cuase major stuctural damage. If it will pull a nail then it most likly will crack a mortar joint bad enough to cause wall failure, that is why some build with a less then well seaoned wood and like I said just ***** or caulk the shrinkage gaps like I may have to do. My wood is about 6 months seasoned and right now is suprisingly low in moisture content. By the time I build it will still be around 25-30% The wood I am using moves around 5% which is one reason that I am splitting it. The smaller the chunck the less movement.(8 inch round at 5% is .4 of inch of movment while a 4 inch split piece is only .2 of and inch max of each). Those numbers are considered from green to dry but follow close to wetting and drying also. So when it gets to the 18-20% which is close to as dry as you can air dry wood here due to the relative humidity at least within any reasonable amount of time. This will mean I may have a small gap too but put some chinking around it then if it ever swells the chinking will take the expansion and not break the mortar in my wall, plus seal things right up. The sawdust insulation if very good if it is dry and debuged hense lime. Many Ice houses used it for years and residental houses up till the 50s used a whole lot of it also but then the new stuff came out which has a higher R value per inch so sawdust went to the natural builders and those that didn't care to have a 6 inch plus thick wall to get the same R value as say 4inchs of fiberglass bates which is about R-14 while the 6 inchs saw dust is around R-13.2 realy close to each other. another reason sawdust went away was people using it green or wet which can cause mold if you dont put enough lime to help dehydrate it and only enough to get ride of bug.


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## countryboy84 (Dec 8, 2010)

Ok since I was not 100% sure about the age thing I took a few moments a done some looking. I found many sites that dont use Rob Roy as the source for saying that there are cordwood buildings in greece thought to be 1000 years old. Other resreachers have said the same thing. There is one in WI that is over 100 years old. It was moved from it orginal location in the state but that dont change its age or the fact that the logs almost look like they were just laid in place. So why do you not believe this? I would like to be able to see what you are going off of.


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## tarbe (Apr 7, 2007)

I for one keep going back and forth between stone and cordwood.

I love the more organic nature of the cordwood. But the lack of radically dissimilar materials in the wall (and the lack of attendant expansion/contraction issues) keeps me wandering back to native stone.

But the stone seems backwards regarding the placement of the thermal mass vs insulation....insulation should be on the outside and mass on the inside. With stone, you get the reverse.

Then I thought maybe I could do a 10 - 12" stone wall on the outside, and a thin (maybe 8") cordwood on the inside, with a couple inches of air space and 2" of blue Dow in between.

Best of both worlds, or just too much work??

I don't really want stone on the inside anyway (except for maybe a thermal mass wall to catch sun coming in from the south windows in winter)...but laying up an interior cordwood wall seems like a lot of extra work. 

The old German in me wants to over-engineer and overkill the the whole house from a structural and insulation standpoint...and if I can do it with mostly free local materials, what's the harm? I will need a killer foundation for these walls though!!!

So, how crazy am I?

Edit: sorry for the thread drift/hijack...I should start a new thread....

Tim


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## countryboy84 (Dec 8, 2010)

there are people building what is know as a double cordwood wall. 8 inch cordwood vapor barr. 8 inch insulted air space vap barr. then another wall of cordwood. So if you wanted I really dont see why you could not use stone outside if wanted and cordwood inside with that method. Stone is more work though, whooping rock is not a fun task. But if you want the outside stone I dont see the problem with replaceing the outside cordwood wall with stone as long as the foundation can take the extra weight of the stone.


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## tarbe (Apr 7, 2007)

countryboy84 said:


> there are people building what is know as a double cordwood wall. 8 inch cordwood vapor barr. 8 inch insulted air space vap barr. then another wall of cordwood. So if you wanted I really dont see why you could not use stone outside if wanted and cordwood inside with that method. Stone is more work though, whooping rock is not a fun task. But if you want the outside stone I dont see the problem with replaceing the outside cordwood wall with stone as long as the foundation can take the extra weight of the stone.


Yea, Shockey up in Saskatchewan. He's done a couple (at least) double-wall cordwood houses.

I was always interested in the double-envelope concept...even back in the 70's when it was two offset 2x4 stick frames.


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## countryboy84 (Dec 8, 2010)

I like it some too. I have seen double wall cabin before 2 inch thick lumber tongue groove on both sides of a vertical 8x8 timber for securing them. It had cellusoe for the insulation rather nice.


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## Wisconsin Ann (Feb 27, 2007)

I mentioned the cordwood house I saw up abaove, and thought I would point out the site that got them excited about cordwood building, which is Green Home Building There is quite a bit of information there, and links. Contains headings such as: Think Small(small homes); Earthbagging; Cob; Strawbale; Financial Aspects; and more. It's a pretty thought provoking site.


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## Wisconsin Ann (Feb 27, 2007)

Forgot to add the hamlet. This is an interesting page with a clickable map that shows cordwood houses in parts of the world. click a "button" then the "learn more" to go to that house's site. http://naturalhomes.org/hamlet/cordwood.htm

and since no one has linked to his site yet: http://www.cordwoodmasonry.com/; Rob Roy's cordwood building site.


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## countryboy84 (Dec 8, 2010)

Thanks for posting those links. Here is one to Richard Flatau's site. He has a good forum and there are some pics there as well as when and where work shops are going on. http://www.daycreek.com


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## Wisconsin Ann (Feb 27, 2007)

Oh yah  forgot to post about daycreek. some great stuff there. Their place is only a couple of hours from here. She's very detail oriented, I think. I particularly like the journal  a sort of month by month of what's done, doing, planning, working and not working.


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