# Why Men Lie



## Laura

If FBB can do it, so can I. 

:stirpot:

Why do men lie? 

Because it's easier. They don't wan't a discussion and they don't want all the spilled emotions they might get if they say, "I ain't gonna tell you 'cause it ain't nunna yur bizness."

The best way to keep a man from lying to you is to accept that's the way it is. Do not ask too many questions and don't invade his brain space, especially if he's stressed. Don't be a space invader. 

When you repeatedly ask him what he's thinking and he repeatedly answers, "Dead flies," realize he doesn't want you in his head but doesn't want to hurt your feelings.

See? He LIES because he doesn't want to HURT you!


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## greg_n_ga

I hope you ain't referin' to all the fellers !! Alot of "us" are to open fer our own good !!!


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## mountainwmn

I always thought the best way to keep a man from lying was to staple his mouth shut? 




I'm just kidding....he won't hold still for that, duct tape is easier.


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## Laura Zone 5

I could write a book based upon real life experiences:
However, it would only be about one man.
And since we are all Wonderfully and Uniquely Created, it's not a 'one size fits all'!!


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## fishhead

Answer: It works and I think some women want them to lie so that when it's over they can believe they didn't know.


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## City Bound

not all men lie. I would say liers lie regardless of the plumbing.


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## Terri

DD lies when she is tired of arguing. "It's FINE"! 

(Obviously not but her kid brother believes her EVERY time and acts accordingly. This drives her nuts. Teens = drama!).


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## greg_n_ga

I hate..."WHATEVER !!" !!!


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## Fowler

greg_n_ga said:


> I hate..."WHATEVER !!" !!!


Whatever...:hand:...LOL


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## FarmboyBill

Men lie because.

I ONCE told my X that I had been fooling around with, (BUT not haveing sex with a gal). I felt remorseful bout it, and asked the guys at work their thoughts about confessing it. They ALL told me not to do it. THEY WERE RIGHT. BUT 2 things come out of it
#1, Whenever temptation raised above the bra, I always thought of my to honest concsience, and if I went any further, if it would want me to rat on myself again. That was a deterant
#2. I never let myself get to that point with a woman again. Just broused and admired. Got to be plenty enough satisfaction. 

#2, IF its nothing that major, and a woman wants to know whats in his head, ALOT of times, they DONT want a quick answer to a particulary tough problem they have. My X would give flippant answers to questions I thought was weighty enough for serious thought, and it irritated me.

#3 Sometimes she would ask me what was on my mind with me knowing, since I didnt have the answer, and it was in a mans relm I knew she wouldnt have one, or would give some off the cuff answer.

Those are just 3 that I can vaguly remember.
Whats on a mans mind that he might lie about it to his SO
#1 I got laid last night finally
#2 I got an invite to get laid last night FINALLY
#3 Im running around on u
#4 Im thinking of blowing town AND U
#5 Your fat/thin/ugly/frigid/to emotional/ too much drama/your a spendaholic, ect, ect.

This isnt saying the guy is in the right in his thinking as in my examples. He obviously isnt for the most part. I imagine most women would think that he should stay with her whether hes getting it or not, and since he took her for better or worse, and the worse happened, and she took him for longer, he should have spent more time in discovering these little idiot syncrosies before he married her. Its all his fault, and now hes stuck with her. He shouldnt lie to her just be cause hes disappointed in her actions and outcome,


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## Laura

Very good examples of why men lie, Bill. They should jump down the weasel hole with the next lie.

"I love you but I'm not 'in love' with you."

Truly, if men can't handle their own emotional issues, they surely can't handle the blowback if they share that with women!

If he wants to try a bit of honesty he could say, "I don't deserve you."


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## whiskeylivewire

My soon to be ex always said he lied because "he didn't want to get in trouble" or "he didn't want the drama".

So who caused the drama? The one who lies and then gets caught?  Or the one who then calls you out on your BS? 

I've always said the worst thing you can do is lie to me. The kids know they will catch it worse if they life so I never understood why he didn't learn that from what I told them!


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## Ardie/WI

whiskeylivewire said:


> My soon to be ex always said he lied because "he didn't want to get in trouble" or "he didn't want the drama".
> 
> So who caused the drama? The one who lies and then gets caught? Or the one who then calls you out on your BS?
> 
> I've always said the worst thing you can do is lie to me. The kids know they will catch it worse if they life so I never understood why he didn't learn that from what I told them!


He's one piece of work, isn't he!

Pity his next victim.

People lie (not just men) because they have no integrity. That simple.


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## tambo

FarmboyBill said:


> He shouldnt lie to her just be cause hes disappointed in her actions and outcome,


Maybe she is disappointed in his ACTIONS and the outcome or the lack of outcome and thats why she don't give him any action any more.


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## Laura

whiskeylivewire said:


> My soon to be ex always said he lied because "he didn't want to get in trouble" or "he didn't want the drama".
> 
> So who caused the drama? The one who lies and then gets caught? Or the one who then calls you out on your BS?
> 
> I've always said the worst thing you can do is lie to me. The kids know they will catch it worse if they life so I never understood why he didn't learn that from what I told them!


See, I think this is obvious to the guys but really tough for women to get their brains around. Men lie because they don't want to get in trouble and don't want the drama because:

We women give men a ration of crap, have emotional meltdowns and want endless discussions when men tell us the truth.

Show men something different about you and the self-protective bullsnot will fade away. This includes letting him off the hook when his tail is caught in the wringer instead of forcing him to dig himself deeper.

He lies because you are not emotionally safe to know his truth.


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## Evons hubby

Laura said:


> If FBB can do it, so can I.
> 
> :stirpot:
> 
> Why do men lie?
> 
> Because it's easier. They don't wan't a discussion and they don't want all the spilled emotions they might get if they say, "I ain't gonna tell you 'cause it ain't nunna yur bizness."
> 
> The best way to keep a man from lying to you is to accept that's the way it is. Do not ask too many questions and don't invade his brain space, especially if he's stressed. Don't be a space invader.
> 
> When you repeatedly ask him what he's thinking and he repeatedly answers, "Dead flies," realize he doesn't want you in his head but doesn't want to hurt your feelings.
> 
> See? *He LIES because he doesn't want to HURT you!*


Yer close. If you dont want a man to lie to you... learn to deal with the truth. In most cases when a man lies to his spouse... he is protecting her from reality... a thing that many women just cant seem to deal with.


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## whiskeylivewire

Laura said:


> See, I think this is obvious to the guys but really tough for women to get their brains around. Men lie because they don't want to get in trouble and don't want the drama because:
> 
> We women give men a ration of crap, have emotional meltdowns and want endless discussions when men tell us the truth.
> 
> Show men something different about you and the self-protective bullsnot will fade away. This includes letting him off the hook when his tail is caught in the wringer instead of forcing him to dig himself deeper.
> 
> He lies because you are not emotionally safe to know his truth.



So, I should have just dealt with his drug abuse and taking of crystal meth? That's what he lied about...


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## whiskeylivewire

Ardie/WI said:


> He's one piece of work, isn't he!
> 
> Pity his next victim.
> 
> People lie (not just men) because they have no integrity. That simple.


Oh Ardie, I haven't even told anyone on here what I've dealt with with him in the last week. I think he has finally completely lost it. He's become paranoid, delusional and he's either tweaking really bad or the drugs have just ate up his brain so bad that he can't function anymore even sober. 

It's very scary and the cops are keeping an eye on him and watching out for me. There are so many blessings to being in a small town where the Sheriff is a friend


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## tambo

Yvonne's hubby said:


> Yer close. If you dont want a man to lie to you... learn to deal with the truth. In most cases when a man lies to his spouse... he is protecting her from reality... a thing that many women just cant seem to deal with.


So does this mean you could deal with it better than a woman if your wife came home and told you she was cheating on you? She was just out with the boys at the bar? She was talking to men on the computer? BULL! If they have to lie to us so we wouldn't flip out over the reality of the truth they shouldn't have been doing it in the first place period.


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## Laura

whiskeylivewire said:


> So, I should have just dealt with his drug abuse and taking of crystal meth? That's what he lied about...


Yes Nicole, that's correct. Kicking him to the curb and enforcing strict boundaries because of drug abuse is plenty enough drama for you. 

He'll want more drama, don't give it to him. If he's drugging, ain't nothing worth hearing coming out of his mouth, don't let him yank your heartstrings.

Chemical dependency issues are beyond the scope of my intentions, but are very valid when it comes to liars. They lie about everything, they're big sucking black holes.


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## whiskeylivewire

Yes, I finally realized that. I don't let him come around often...maybe for 10 minutes here and there to see my daughter who has considered him dad since she was 2 but he is not allowed to take her anywhere.

I call him an emotional vampire. If I don't talk to him I feel great, I have energy, etc but if I have to interact with him I'm absolutely exhausted.

I have no drama right now since I left and it is absolute BLISS.


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## Guest

Vampire, huh?? Imagine that. You sure you've not been to this forum before?


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## Farmer Willy

I'm too lazy to lie. So much work to try to keep all of the story straight. As for hurting feelings the Mrs. always said if you didn't want to hear the truth you shouldn't ask the questions. The easiest way for a lazy guy is to tell the truth and try to stay out of situations that's gonna hurt yourself or others.


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## Evons hubby

tambo said:


> So does this mean you could deal with it better than a woman if your wife came home and told you she was cheating on you? She was just out with the boys at the bar? She was talking to men on the computer? BULL! If they have to lie to us so we wouldn't flip out over the reality of the truth they shouldn't have been doing it in the first place period.


Actually yes... I deal with the truth much better than lies and deceptions. I have yet to meet the woman who deals with those issues without a lot of emotional drama. If my wife tells me what she is doing... she is NOT cheating on me now is she? I have no reason to be upset, get all emotional and throw fits. Women tend not to see it the same way.


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## Guest

If you've got a wife, why are you in Singletree?
It says : Country Singletree A *Country Singles* Forum
Did Yvonne dump you? Are you unhappy with your wife? Just looking for intelligent conversation? Itching for a whupping?? What??


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## Evons hubby

whiskeylivewire said:


> So, I should have just dealt with his drug abuse and taking of crystal meth? That's what he lied about...


You dealt with it. The question is did you deal with it in the proper manner? :shrug:


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## Evons hubby

zong said:


> If you've got a wife, why are you in Singletree?
> It says : Country Singletree A *Country Singles* Forum
> Did Yvonne dump you? Are you unhappy with your wife? Just looking for intelligent conversation? Itching for a whupping?? What??


LOL!!! Naw Yvonne and I are just fine. I was about half asleep the other day, just getting up from a nap and stumbled in here quite by accident. I generally surf back and forth between general chat and countryside families.... a thread title caught my eye (something about why men walk away from love) and I clicked on it... got interested in the conversation and here I be. Intelligent conversation is hard to find, and harder in some forums than others!


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## tambo

You are a piece of work YH. You wouldn't be mad if your wife came home and told you she was cheating after all mad is an emotion? You wouldn't be upset if it changed your whole world and turned it upside down? I guess you would say OK DEAR thanks for being honest with me?


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## Laura

Some couples survive cheating and come through stronger. I think their secret is they avoid extinction bursts or at least know how to forgive them.


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## Guest

Yvonne's hubby said:


> LOL!!! Naw Yvonne and I are just fine. I was about half asleep the other day, just getting up from a nap and stumbled in here quite by accident. I generally surf back and forth between general chat and countryside families.... a thread title caught my eye and I clicked on it... got interested in the conversation and here I be. Intelligent conversation is hard to find, and harder in some forums than others!


Yeah, especially hard to find intelligent conversation in GC & politics during election season! 
There's some sharp people here. And some hungry ones, too. Some that will just consider you a notch on a fang.


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## tambo

I deal with the truth better too but if I was in a relationship with someone especially married to them and they told me they cheated it would make me mad and hurt me. If they lie about it it will hurt me worse and I would still be just as mad. Those are emotions no one could stop I don't care how perfect you think you are! I have dealt with this before so I know exactly how I would deal with it. BYE BYE BABY


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## whiskeylivewire

Yvonne's hubby said:


> You dealt with it. The question is did you deal with it in the proper manner? :shrug:


I think so. I told him if he wanted to stay with me, he had one last chance. He had to go to rehab and stop his drug use. He didn't believe me on the last chance. I left 3 weeks ago and he immediately started trying to find the next woman while still begging me to come back.

I have not tried to find anyone and I'm pretty happy. It has it's ups and downs but I am happy and I don't have the tight chest, the headaches, the stress that I did with him.


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## Laura

Of course we HAVE the strong emotions. It's how we choose to process and express them that makes the difference in our relationships.


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## tambo

My argument is not with you Laura it is with YH thanks though.


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## Evons hubby

tambo said:


> You are a piece of work YH. You wouldn't be mad if your wife came home and told you she was cheating after all mad is an emotion? You wouldn't be upset if it changed your whole world and turned it upside down? I guess you would say OK DEAR thanks for being honest with me?


Nope I wouldnt be mad. I wasnt mad when the first one did it either. For me its not a "world changer" or "turn it upside down" kinda thing. Just one more curve in lifes highway.


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## tambo

Then you are the blessed one. I also think you may be a bit of a liar too.


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## Guest

Druggies always got a woman!! What's that about?? How much will it cost me to get hooked on downer gals? or whatever the slang is. Geeze, I can barely keep up with my sleepeze and nodoze. And midol.


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## Evons hubby

zong said:


> Yeah, especially hard to find intelligent conversation in GC & politics during election season!
> There's some sharp people here. And some hungry ones, too. Some that will just consider you a notch on a fang.


No doubt...


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## Evons hubby

tambo said:


> Then you are the blessed one. I also think you may be a bit of a liar too.


Or maybe Laura was correct in her assessment that men deal with emotions differently than women. :shrug:


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## tambo

Yvonne's hubby said:


> Or maybe Laura was correct in her assessment that men deal with emotions differently than women. :shrug:


I am old enough to know men and women deal with emotions differently. I don't think men handle it any better than women though. I think it depends on the individual male or female.


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## Guest

Men as a generalization, figure, that's the way it is, I got a choice here, walk away, or stay. On the other hand, I've known women who walk away when everything was good because they thought "it can only go downhill from here"


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## tambo

Yvonne's hubby said:


> ... a thing that many women just cant seem to deal with.


By the way this statment is what I was addressing. Nothing against Laura I was addressing you.


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## Evons hubby

tambo said:


> I am old enough to know men and women deal with emotions differently. I don't think men handle it any better than women though. I think it depends on the individual male or female.


This is quite true... I have known some women who understood life very well, and dealt with their emotions in a very rational way. My second wife, God rest her wonderful soul, was very good that way. Her ex husband on the other hand was a pitiful mess. I was speaking in generalities though. Men tend to deal with emotional issues from an entirely different direction than most women.


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## Evons hubby

tambo said:


> By the way this statment is what I was addressing. Nothing against Laura I was addressing you.


Ya, I dont think anyone misunderstood that part.


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## Evons hubby

zong said:


> Men as a generalization, figure, that's the way it is, I got a choice here, walk away, or stay. On the other hand, I've known women who walk away when everything was good because they thought "it can only go downhill from here"


Yep, and my favorite line of reasoning..... Some other woman might take him so I better toss him out on his tail before she does! LOL


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## FarmboyBill

My X tried that, (How would you feel, or like it if I went out and got some. I could do it far easier than you. ) I knew that she was right, BUT What was right, was right, and I told her she was right, and that if she felt the need, Id live with it. She did, and that was that. It put nus back on an even keel, which I think she didnt really like as it slipped me out from under her thumb on that score. As I stated earlier. That broke me of doing that stuff, and from then on, I just brouzed and enjoyed looking. She, when I went in the army the last time, moved back to tulsa, Let the rabbits starve in their cages, and the chickens get caught all over the yard and barnyard. Thats when I said hell with it and we Dd. It wasnt till after that I found she had been running around all the time, and got married within a year after our D. He was a bum and she kicked him out after 2.

I think that men, rather than take a chewing by women by telling them they dont like the way they dress anymore, start looking at women who dress like they like. Soon somma those women see he has a ring on, and know hes safe to play with.

I spose some men hear of exciteing sex by other guys at work, but wifie wont put out with/like that, so, sooner or later, he thinks hes found someone who will.

Wifie says she cant be dressing like shes 20 forever, and she cant dress like (she thinks) is/looks like a sl__ or a wh___. Shes got respectable. His clothes hasnt changed, but hers has. So, he starts looking at the younger , generally women who are still dressing like he likes.


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## Terri

FBB, I am 57. If I wore now what I wore then, folks would need brain bleach! Women my age should not wear a bikini or a miniskirt!

Face it, Bill, you flat out LIKE to look at young women who are nicely dressed! And, it isn't the clothes so much as the girl inside them!


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## elkhound

:trollface :trollface :trollface :trollface :trollface


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## Guest

Doctor my eyes
Cannot see the sky.
Is this the price
For having learned how not to cry?


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## Laura

Bill, I won't lie to you. Your wives wouldn't put out to you because you wouldn't put out to them. You're a dud. 

Now stop lying to yourself.


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## Tommyice

Yvonne's hubby said:


> Yer close. If you dont want a man to lie to you... learn to deal with the truth. In most cases when a man lies to his spouse... he is protecting her from reality... a thing that many women just cant seem to deal with.


So, working on your theory, which came first? The man who lies or the man who saves himself the trouble of finding out if his woman can "deal with reality?"

Oh and in my reality, after reading your posts here over the last day or so, Yvonne should have more medals on her chest than Patton.


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## whodunit

For the record, I have never cheated on my wife, but I believe a man who has cheated should never confess to anyone but God unless it is obvious he has cheated. I don't think it's fair for him to transfer that guilty burden to her. Just stop what you are doing, don't do it again, and keep your mouth shut.


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## Evons hubby

Tommyice said:


> So, working on your theory, which came first? The man who lies or the man who saves himself the trouble of finding out if his woman can "deal with reality?"
> 
> Oh and in my reality, after reading your posts here over the last day or so, Yvonne should have more medals on her chest than Patton.


I strongly urge any couples to get all these little details worked out early on in the relationship. Doing so saves both a lot of grief later. 
I am pretty sure my Yvonne has some medals somewhere, tucked away in a safe place. If she doesnt she certainly should have! I know she impressed her superiors during her military days... I have read the letter of recommendation citing how she "raised the bar" for all new recruits entering that particular academy when she graduated.


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## Evons hubby

whodunit said:


> For the record, I have never cheated on my wife, but I believe a man who has cheated should never confess to anyone but God unless it is obvious he has cheated. I don't think it's fair for him to transfer that guilty burden to her. Just stop what you are doing, don't do it again, and keep your mouth shut.


This puts me in mind of a couple I once knew. When he was being shipped out for a years tour in Nam she told him that she knew he wasnt going to "do without" for a whole year... so he should just go to town and buy it... like a loaf of bread... that way there would be no emotional bonds formed and therefore somewhat more acceptable to her. A year later upon his arrival home, the first thing she asked him was "did you buy any bread while you were over there?"
His reply was "of course not honey... you are the only one for me!" That part of the conversation was finalized with "good... and you durn well better not ever admit it either!!"

Those two are both gone now.. passed within about a month of one another after spending a lot of happy years together. To the best of my knowledge he never admitted anything. And she never asked again. Wise couple.


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## Fowler




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## FarmboyBill

I hope for YH that she has the chest for alla them LOL

I think that young boys and men take a womans cheating and having sex with another waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay more intolorantly than older/old men.
I think that younger boys men see only the outside of a woman, and the only inside that they are aquainted with for the most part is when they have sex. A older man has had time to have history with his woman. He knows her inside alot better, and in that im meaning her brain. her thoughts, emotions, ect. He has experienced her worth externally, her abilities, what all she does, and can do for him. IF hes rational, he weighs his past misdeeds against what she has done, than takes the result of that and weighs it against all that he would lose if he decided to think with his other head. In reality, USUALLY, It isnt worth it to lose her. Sometimes it is. He has to judge.. Is steady, more or less sex with her, and meals at meal time, a house more or less clean, better than liveing with the uncertainity of when sex for him will happen again, and how hell likely have to pay for it? Of makeing his own meals, paying massive amounts of his check on CS Liveing like a bum if he never had to do any housework himself.

AS DOES SHE. WHEN ITS IN REVERSE. Is it worth loseing a paycheck, security, a home, safety. is This infidility a one time thing, or is it going to continue. Can she remake/reenvent herself? Is it/he worth it. What will be the outcome if she gives him the booty. How will her life change, can she live with that new life.

I wrote booty by accident. Thought it was funny enough to leave there lol.

IM pretty sure, at my age, IF a woman I had said that I was a dud and she was a w _ _ _ _ , who wanted more, (Jus kidding), than Id tell her to have at it, Just dont bring it home. If she comes back, thats OK. If she dosnt, Well, thats OK too, Just take longer getting used to.


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## FarmboyBill

I imageine that most men who have cheated without getting caught, continue to do it again. I think I would have if I hadnt ratted on myself.

ONCE A KING
ALWAYS A KING
ONCE OF THAT
WAS E N O U G H


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## katydidagain

Men lie because of their DNA. They have that stupid "Y" so "Y" not?


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## FarmboyBill

Whats womens excuse for it, OR do they even have one?


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## katydidagain

FarmboyBill said:


> Whats womens excuse for it, OR do they even have one?


Women need no excuse because we're God's perfect creation. He made us, women, out of a rib from His first venture into making humans--something with a "Y" chromosome. Fortunately He quickly realized double X rules but, being God, didn't waste His mistakes. Which means those of us who are His perfect creations are left to deal with His failed attempts. Sad.


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## Laura

It's not about cheating, sex and other big things. It's the stupid little stuff.

Okay Guys, tell me if I'm right or wrong if this is how it is.

It's Saturday morning and you're walking out the door. Your plan is to swing by, Pick up Rusty and a couple cases of beer, drive way out to the expensive hot rod shop where the Hot Babe works, get parts and work on the Rod all day with The Buds.

She asks where you're going, and what comes out of your mouth is, 

"Work."

I don't think you can help that. You have a plan and you're rolling! You cannot jump track and waste time and energy discussing budget beer hot babe rod feelings trust relationship together time..........

The only word available to you is, "Work."


So how do women react when the find out WHERE you were working or the actual factual basis of other such incidences?

Freak-out or understanding?


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## elkhound

katydidagain said:


> Women need no excuse because we're God's perfect creation. He made us, women, out of a rib from His first venture into making humans--something with a "Y" chromosome. Fortunately He quickly realized double X rules but, being God, didn't waste His mistakes. Which means those of us who are His perfect creations are left to deal with His failed attempts. Sad.



do i hit the like button.....yes or no....lol

dont you just know when god looks down here he does this...:doh::doh::doh::doh:......what was i thinking.


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## katydidagain

elkhound said:


> do i hit the like button.....yes or no....lol
> 
> dont you just know when god looks down here he does this...:doh::doh::doh::doh:......what was i thinking.


I suspect He does wonder what happened.


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## whiskeylivewire

A lie is a lie is a lie...personally, I don't care why it was told. I'm kind of a black and white type girl...lies are bad and wrong and I hate them.

I'm pretty blunt, possibly too much but then again, I'd rather be a rude honest person, than a sweet liar.


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## elkhound

Laura said:


> It's not about cheating, sex and other big things. It's the stupid little stuff.
> 
> Okay Guys, tell me if I'm right or wrong if this is how it is.
> 
> It's Saturday morning and you're walking out the door. Your plan is to swing by, Pick up Rusty and a couple cases of beer, drive way out to the expensive hot rod shop where the Hot Babe works, get parts and work on the Rod all day with The Buds.
> 
> She asks where you're going, and what comes out of your mouth is,
> 
> "Work."
> 
> I don't think you can help that. You have a plan and you're rolling! You cannot jump track and waste time and energy discussing budget beer hot babe rod feelings trust relationship together time..........
> 
> The only word available to you is, "Work."
> 
> 
> So how do women react when the find out WHERE you were working or the actual factual basis of other such incidences?
> 
> Freak-out or understanding?



i would think as we lie in bed on friday night we are discussing OUR PLANS for the weekend.


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## Laura

elkhound said:


> i would think as we lie in bed on friday night we are discussing OUR PLANS for the weekend.


Pretend you're in the first few weeks or months of a new relationship and you don't have sex that early. Or she doesn't. You're on your cell phone. You've seen her 3 times that week and every week, you're full. You need Guy Time. They're razzing you.


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## Terri in WV

Elk, It just continually amazes me that you're single with the way you think and the things you write. :shocked:


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## elkhound

its just goes back to pure and simple communication.

for lauras scenario i would say i am working on the hot rod with the guys and drinking beer.when we finish up will you come get me so i can get home safe.i am stickler on drinking and driving because a drunk ran out of road and pinned my buddy into a cliff then tried to drive away.he was crushed badly.....


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## Terri in WV

Laura said:


> So how do women react when the find out WHERE you were working or the actual factual basis of other such incidences?
> 
> Freak-out or understanding?


If they're in a trusting relationship, there would be no reason to lie or freak out.


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## katydidagain

Terri in WV said:


> Elk, It just continually amazes me that you're single with the way you think and the things you write. :shocked:


He's smart and he's very picky. 

katy *who thinks he has the prettiest hands ever*


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## elkhound

Laura said:


> Pretend you're in the first few weeks or months of a new relationship and you don't have sex that early. Or she doesn't. You're on your cell phone. You've seen her 3 times that week and every week, you're full. You need Guy Time. They're razzing you.


since i was born i walked my own path.....i tell my buddys to kiss a cows foot.


----------



## elkhound

katydidagain said:


> He's smart and he's very picky.
> 
> katy *who thinks he has the prettiest hands ever*


your just a sicko.....lust the hands.


----------



## elkhound

Terri in WV said:


> Elk, It just continually amazes me that you're single with the way you think and the things you write. :shocked:


you shoulda seen the look i got first time i walked into the girls bunkhouse coming out of the woods from working....all covered in needles and such...sat down and read cosmopolitan magazine.they said what ya doin....i said trying to figure you creatures out from reading and listening to yall talk.....lol

p.s.they told me i could come over cause the boys bunkhouse ac was broke and it was hot that summer.


----------



## Evons hubby

elkhound said:


> its just goes back to pure and simple communication.
> 
> for lauras scenario i would say i am working on the hot rod with the guys and drinking beer.when we finish up will you come get me so i can get home safe.i am stickler on drinking and driving because a drunk ran out of road and pinned my buddy into a cliff then tried to drive away.he was crushed badly.....


Yep, I cant imagine why any guy would feel the need to lie about that scenario. As to needing a ride home.... I also cant imagine getting so drunk I couldnt drive home while working in any shop and especially not while working on a vehicle that I had any feelings for at all.  I also have a problem with drinking and driving.... its a risky business... too easy to have an unexpected "situation" come up and spill my drink!


----------



## katydidagain

elkhound said:


> your just a sicko.....lust the hands.


I have a history admiring those digits..call me sick...I admit to being very jealous.


----------



## elkhound

katydidagain said:


> I have a history admiring those digits..call me sick...I admit to being very jealous.


tell ya a secret between just you and me....after i use trimmers i use a emory board.make it all smooth ...but dont tell anyone ok.


----------



## Evons hubby

Laura said:


> Pretend you're in the first few weeks or months of a new relationship and you don't have sex that early. Or she doesn't.


Ok... I have a pretty good imagination.... but I simply cannot put myself in that frame of mind. WEEKS OR MONTHS?!?!? I might be able to wrap my mind around a couple days... but not weeks or months!


----------



## elkhound

for my weirdo friend...it was good for me..was for you..lets go smoke now....roflmro











heres lets see the nails...after diggin taters.i feel so cheap after doing porn shots for all you hand freaks that give me grief....lol

see theres some dirt under the nails...lol...but not for long...lol


----------



## Laura

elkhound said:


> its just goes back to pure and simple communication.
> 
> for lauras scenario i would say i am working on the hot rod with the guys and drinking beer.when we finish up will you come get me so i can get home safe.i am stickler on drinking and driving because a drunk ran out of road and pinned my buddy into a cliff then tried to drive away.he was crushed badly.....


Not just pure and simple communication. It's trust and respect. You trust your partner to not be insecure and insist on talking budget beer hot babe rod feelings trust relationship together time RIGHT THEN as you're going out the door, and she trusts and respects you enough that budget beer hot babe rod feelings trust relationship together time aren't issues, and she can say, "Call me when you need a ride home."

But how often do people find themselves in an interdependent relationship that do not have those levels of trust and respect? They take time to build and until we know we have it, Men can be pretty self-protective. Women can be very insecure and will act needy.


----------



## Mooselover

Yer close. If you dont want a man to lie to you... learn to deal with the truth. In most cases when a man lies to his spouse... he is protecting her from reality... a thing that many women just cant seem to deal with.

who's 'reality'....isn't that a tad-bit of a subjective term and painting with a very broad brush?


----------



## Shygal

katydidagain said:


> Women need no excuse because we're God's perfect creation. He made us, women, out of a rib from His first venture into making humans--something with a "Y" chromosome. Fortunately He quickly realized double X rules but, being God, didn't waste His mistakes. Which means those of us who are His perfect creations are left to deal with His failed attempts. Sad.


Thats not the sad part of this post


----------



## Evons hubby

Mooselover said:


> Yer close. If you dont want a man to lie to you... learn to deal with the truth. In most cases when a man lies to his spouse... he is protecting her from reality... a thing that many women just cant seem to deal with.
> 
> who's 'reality'....isn't that a tad-bit of a subjective term and painting with a very broad brush?


There is always only one "reality" even though there can be different "perceptions" of it. Some folks will see a stone... just your everyday rock... and some may see it as an unfinished piece of artwork... others may perceive it to be a potential building block, and another may see it as a hole in their oil pan if they run over it.... but those perceptions never change the reality... its still a rock.


----------



## Laura

Yvonne's hubby said:


> There is always only one "reality" even though there can be different "perceptions" of it. Some folks will see a stone... just your everyday rock... and some may see it as an unfinished piece of artwork... others may perceive it to be a potential building block, and another may see it as a hole in their oil pan if they run over it.... but those perceptions never change the reality... its still a rock.


When you find someone who sees the rocks the same way you do, it's worth it to take a deep breath, think instead of react, see where he is coming from and where it's going when he has a brain seize and "lies" because it's easier at that time for him.* If you are secure and patient, a good man will let you know the truth later if you don't freak out.

Few men will admit in mixed company about deceiving women, but I know ya'll done it over little stupid stuff.


*Does not apply to sociopaths, addicts, alcoholics, mentally ill, whackjobs, nutjobs, parasites and the criminally insane.


----------



## Mooselover

Yvonne's hubby said:


> There is always only one "reality" even though there can be different "perceptions" of it. Some folks will see a stone... just your everyday rock... and some may see it as an unfinished piece of artwork... others may perceive it to be a potential building block, and another may see it as a hole in their oil pan if they run over it.... but those perceptions never change the reality... its still a rock.


oh my!!! are you channeling Brother George...my college philosophy prof? how is the 'one many?' and 'is a chair REALLY a chair?':runforhills: i'm not so sure i'd ever be up to debating/theorizing those things again....i barely passed the class. many moose-hearts for the flash back and nightmares:catfight:


----------



## Evons hubby

Laura said:


> When you find someone who sees the rocks the same way you do, it's worth it to take a deep breath, think instead of react, see where he is coming from and where it's going when he has a brain seize and "lies" because it's easier at that time for him.* If you are secure and patient, a good man will let you know the truth later if you don't freak out.
> 
> Few men will admit in mixed company about deceiving women, but I know ya'll done it over little stupid stuff.
> 
> 
> *Does not apply to sociopaths, addicts, alcoholics, mentally ill, whackjobs, nutjobs, parasites and the criminally insane.


Ok, even without the disclaimer towards... lemme see now.. alcoholic.. maybe.. nutjob... probably.....

My second wife probably saw the rocks closest to the same angle as I do, which is probably why I gave her 15 years of my best years. I do not recall ever attempting to deceive her at all, although she was a sly one, I dont recall her ever actually deceiving me either, unlike my first wife... who was constantly attempting to put one over on everyone. That girl would lie when the truth would have served her better! LOL I knew she and I were "stick a fork in it done" within a couple months of the wedding... (ok, so I was still fairly young and naive at that point, she had me fooled there for a little while! LOL) I stayed the next nine years because of her kids. I spose you could call that deception on my part because I knew I wouldnt be there once the kids didnt need me, and I did let her believe all was well.... so yes, guilty as charged. My Yvonne and I have been very open and honest with each other from the gitgo.. it works well for us, as we are both quite comfortable and secure with who we are. There is no need for lying... not even little white ones. We know each others faults... and work around them.


----------



## City Bound

I do not know how people can lie that they are going to work is they are really going to work on a hotrod. Don't couples know each others schedules? A married couple would know each other's work schedule and know the other person is lieing or ask for an explanation as to why they are called into work on a day when they are not to work.


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## Evons hubby

Mooselover said:


> oh my!!! are you channeling Brother George...my college philosophy prof? how is the 'one many?' and 'is a chair REALLY a chair?':runforhills: i'm not so sure i'd ever be up to debating/theorizing those things again....i barely passed the class. many moose-hearts for the flash back and nightmares:catfight:


Naw, I dont think so, just drawing on memories from fireside chats with old buds from the old days. Too much time, too many good drugs, and fine whiskey on our hands! We managed to cover a lot of topics... Can God make a rock bigger than He can lift? Why dont frogs have wings? Who thought giving wimmins the vote was a good idea? Are you a figment of my imagination, or am I one of yours?.... usually followed up with "pass it on over to me" LOL The sixties and seventies were great!


----------



## Evons hubby

City Bound said:


> I do not know how people can lie that they are going to work is they are really going to work on a hotrod. Don't couples know each others schedules? A married couple would know each other's work schedule and know the other person is lieing or ask for an explanation as to why they are called into work on a day when they are not to work.


I would suppose that depends upon the couple. My Yvonne is a traveling salesman.. salesperson.. whatever... Her schedule varies with her mood... and workload... sometimes she is on the road, out of town for a couple days... she has no real time clock but "usually" gets home around 5:30... unless of course she gets off early or needs to work late. On her days off she goes where she wants and does what she wants. She needs no explanation for her whereabouts. She knows I love her, I know she loves me. What else is there of any real importance to know? :shrug:


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## Guest

I'm so glad that I don't presume that all women are carbon copies of the worst one I ever knew.


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## Laura

Men lie because they want you to be happy, because they donât really understand your emotions, and because theyâre pretty terrible at dealing with emotions themselves.

Men want their women to be happy, they want to please them, not cause emotional meltdowns. Often it's a difficult place for a man to walk, pleasing his woman and protecting his space. Until the trust and boundaries are established, truth accidents will happen.

Love means different things to different people. Generally, women want obssession and devotion. Men want appreciation and respect.

Both men and women do stupid and destructive things trying to get these. For some it works, they limp through relationships or destroy them. For long haul relationships, though, it means recognizing your own part in the dynamics, seeing the other person's wants and needs apart from your own, and forgiving the stupid stuff and build from there with communication and understanding. It is a choice.


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## Raven12

Shut off your emotions and play games. Honestly, that is the main reason I am interested in Homesteading/becoming a hermit. The world seems to have forgotten how to love and care about someone other than themselves.


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## City Bound

Sometimes I lie to a woman I love simply because I love her and a lie is a wonderful way to make her feel how special she is to me. For example, if she asks me before going out how she looks when she is really not looking her best I tell her she looks lovely and perfect because that is what she is to me, lovely and perfect, so why should I let some rare moment when she is not looking her best spoil our affections. the moment will pass, her blossom will perk up again and she will be looking tip top and radiant just the same as I try to always remember her in my heart.

So, why spoil the warmth of the repour.


----------



## Shygal

City Bound said:


> Sometimes I lie to a woman I love simply because I love her and a lie is a wonderful way to make her feel how special she is to me. For example, if she asks me before going out how she looks when she is really not looking her best I tell her she looks lovely and perfect because that is what she is to me, lovely and perfect, so why should I let some rare moment when she is not looking her best spoil our affections.


CB you don't make any sense here.

If she looks lovely and perfect to you, she IS looking her best to you and its not a lie. How can you think someone looks lovely and perfect, yet say she is really not looking her best?


----------



## littlejoe

Laura said:


> Why do men lie?


Sorry maam, but I don't lie. Your question suggests all men tell lies?

If you don't want to know the cold hard truth, don't ask stupid questions! Cuz I will ask and expect the same of you!


----------



## Laura

Raven12 said:


> Shut off your emotions and play games. Honestly, that is the main reason I am interested in Homesteading/becoming a hermit. The world seems to have forgotten how to love and care about someone other than themselves.


No sense playing the Game of Love if you can't figure out how to do it without extinction bursts. I'm not saying shut off your emotions. I'm saying to control them, get more information and think it through before you spew, ambush or accuse.

While dating, did he dribble self-protective bullsnot doing something nice you spontaneously wanted, but he was uncomfortable about? Did you learn the truth months later? 

HE LIED! FREAK OUT! DOUCHEWAFFLE! You talk to your girlfriends, HE LIED! DOUCHEWAFFLE! KICK HIM TO THE CURB!!!!

But if you think clearly and go over the conversations in the weeks after the incident, he explained himself one piece at a time. That's how men process THEIR feelings. 

His tail was in the wringer and he wanted to please you. Things are going great between you. You have wonderful times together, he is everything you want, you trust and respect him. 

You CAN trust and respect a man, it doesn't mean you believe his BS. You can tell him that while smiling. You can call him on it and let him off the hook without getting mad. Afterall, he did it to please or protect you. If you inadvertently call BS in a way that raises his hackles and he glowers and growls, "I'm not a liar," You reply with, "Of course not, that idea never crossed my mind, I trust and respect you, I appreciate everything you do for me." Then you give him a whoppin' big kiss.

That Ladies, is how you get obssession and devotion.

The stupid little stuff doesn't matter AT ALL!


----------



## Marshloft

WOW,,, any more like you Laura?


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## Sourdough

Marshloft said:


> WOW,,, any more like you Laura?


The universe would be quantumly improved for mature males if there were many like Lady Laura.


----------



## Marshloft

Sourdough said:


> The universe would be quantumly improved for mature males if there were many like Lady Laura.


 I've never seen nor heard a woman have such a handle on the male Phsychic before.
Its like she has figured out the male,, as we have yet to figure out the female persiasion.
Altho,, I do know its all about being sensitive to thier needs and wants.
I'm pretty sure, its mostly just being sensitive. Talking, willing to communicate verbally vs holding it all in.
Go figure,, its really all that simple kinda.
The biggest problem is,,, we were raised to be harsh and rough,, and thats all a good thing,,, 
When my now ex wife left, my then young boys hugged me a little harder when they saw me crying. It was then I understood,, its ok to cry. We learn things from our kids.


----------



## SageLady

Shygal said:


> CB you don't make any sense here.
> 
> If she looks lovely and perfect to you, she IS looking her best to you and its not a lie. How can you think someone looks lovely and perfect, yet say she is really not looking her best?


I get what he's saying. When I am sick or having a bad day, not looking my best, my man always tells me I look beautiful. And I appreciate it. Obviously, both he and I know I'm not looking my best, but to him I am beautiful no matter what. He'd have to be blind to not notice when I look pale and sick, that's what City Bound is saying....


----------



## City Bound

Shygal said:


> CB you don't make any sense here.
> 
> If she looks lovely and perfect to you, she IS looking her best to you and its not a lie. How can you think someone looks lovely and perfect, yet say she is really not looking her best?


because we all have bad days when we look our worst, but they pass, so there is no sense in making mention of it.


----------



## City Bound

SageLady said:


> I get what he's saying. When I am sick or having a bad day, not looking my best, my man always tells me I look beautiful. And I appreciate it. Obviously, both he and I know I'm not looking my best, but to him I am beautiful no matter what. He'd have to be blind to not notice when I look pale and sick, that's what City Bound is saying....


exactly. And it is loving to give her a little boost when she may be feeling down about her looks while sick, while having a bad hairday, or reassuring her when she is having mood swings from her cycle.

it is just being a good anchor or mirror for the person you love when they need it.

usually, when a women feels aweful about her looks, her figure, her skills, or emotional balance she will turn to her man and ask what he thinks, but when she asks she asks in a way that really says: I feel aweful about myself and need cheering up, please tell me something nice about myself and let me know that you love and desire me. I feel if people love each other they cheer each other up.


----------



## Raven12

Laura said:


> No sense playing the Game of Love if you can't figure out how to do it without extinction bursts. I'm not saying shut off your emotions. I'm saying to control them, get more information and think it through before you spew, ambush or accuse.
> 
> While dating, did he dribble self-protective bullsnot doing something nice you spontaneously wanted, but he was uncomfortable about? Did you learn the truth months later?
> 
> HE LIED! FREAK OUT! DOUCHEWAFFLE! You talk to your girlfriends, HE LIED! DOUCHEWAFFLE! KICK HIM TO THE CURB!!!!
> 
> But if you think clearly and go over the conversations in the weeks after the incident, he explained himself one piece at a time. That's how men process THEIR feelings.
> 
> His tail was in the wringer and he wanted to please you. Things are going great between you. You have wonderful times together, he is everything you want, you trust and respect him.
> 
> You CAN trust and respect a man, it doesn't mean you believe his BS. You can tell him that while smiling. You can call him on it and let him off the hook without getting mad. Afterall, he did it to please or protect you. If you inadvertently call BS in a way that raises his hackles and he glowers and growls, "I'm not a liar," You reply with, "Of course not, that idea never crossed my mind, I trust and respect you, I appreciate everything you do for me." Then you give him a whoppin' big kiss.
> 
> That Ladies, is how you get obssession and devotion.
> 
> The stupid little stuff doesn't matter AT ALL!


I don't want a man like that. I want a best friend. I want someone to support, nurture, and love. It sounds like the men and women in your life are full of insecurities and deceit. You can have those men, Laura. Good luck.


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## roadless

I think my soon to be ex lied because he is a coward.


----------



## Tommyice

Laura said:


> That Ladies, is how you get *obssession *and devotion.


Careful Laura, obsession can lead to bunny boiling.


----------



## Guest

Ya know, there are a couple of women in this forum that make me really sad. Arrogant, self-loathing, textbook examples of misandry. On the other hand, there are about 50 that make me know that I still love women!!!


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## Terri

The rules of courtship seems to be changing all of the time, and also from couple to couple! It is a wonder to me how most people get through them! But, we all seem to, though we also often trip and fall!


----------



## City Bound

yes, needless change. change for the sake of changing. it is a pain in the butt and fruitless. there is a lot of pointless rebellion going on that only serves antisocialism and social decay. it is like the attitude of the character in Rebel Without A Cause when he is asked what he is rebelling against and he replies "whatever you got!"


----------



## Guest

Terri said:


> The rules of courtship seems to be changing all of the time, and also from couple to couple! It is a wonder to me how most people get through them! But, we all seem to, though we also often trip and fall!


Rules?? You mean it's just a game? Is that how most women see it, as a game? Of course, a game has a winner and a loser. Is that what it's all about?? I guess that explains a lot. There's been changes alright. I remember when it was about love, not about ego massaging and emotional manipulation for the "advantage" Maybe I really am an old fuddy-duddy.


----------



## Laura Zone 5

Laura said:


> No sense playing the Game of Love if you can't figure out how to do it without extinction bursts. I'm not saying shut off your emotions. I'm saying to control them, get more information and think it through before you spew, ambush or accuse.
> 
> While dating, did he dribble self-protective bullsnot doing something nice you spontaneously wanted, but he was uncomfortable about? Did you learn the truth months later?
> 
> HE LIED! FREAK OUT! DOUCHEWAFFLE! You talk to your girlfriends, HE LIED! DOUCHEWAFFLE! KICK HIM TO THE CURB!!!!
> 
> But if you think clearly and go over the conversations in the weeks after the incident, he explained himself one piece at a time. That's how men process THEIR feelings.
> 
> His tail was in the wringer and he wanted to please you. Things are going great between you. You have wonderful times together, he is everything you want, you trust and respect him.
> 
> You CAN trust and respect a man, it doesn't mean you believe his BS. You can tell him that while smiling. You can call him on it and let him off the hook without getting mad. Afterall, he did it to please or protect you.* If you inadvertently call BS in a way that raises his hackles and he glowers and growls, "I'm not a liar," You reply with, "Of course not, that idea never crossed my mind, I trust and respect you, I appreciate everything you do for me." Then you give him a whoppin' big kiss.*
> 
> That Ladies, is how you get obssession and devotion.
> 
> The stupid little stuff doesn't matter AT ALL!


Help me
Are you saying (the bold) that if the woman, catches her man in a lie (calling BS).....and he starts to get angry, that the woman's reply is to LIE back to him by saying "it never crossed my mind"?

If that is what you are saying I cannot imagine building a relationship around deception like that.
He lies to me, I call him on it, he gets mad, I lie by saying 'uh no, I wasn't saying that".....

I do not want obsession (idolatry). Ew that's weird.

A strong man: Strong in his Beliefs, Strong in work ethic. Strong leadership. Very capable and confident he can do any and everything himself.......
But 
See's me as his 'completer', his helper, his encourager, his softer side, the one that makes a house, home.
There is no need to lie or manipulate me.....because I have shown him by actions and in words, that he is my all and all.
He loves me and respects me, and because of his Strong Beliefs, and my words and actions, there is no reason to lie.


----------



## Terri

zong said:


> Rules?? You mean it's just a game? Is that how most women see it, as a game? Of course, a game has a winner and a loser. Is that what it's all about?? I guess that explains a lot. There's been changes alright. I remember when it was about love, not about ego massaging and emotional manipulation for the "advantage" Maybe I really am an old fuddy-duddy.


There are also social rules, workplace rules, and rules for almost everything. NO! courtship is not a game, with a winner and a loser!

Courtship *IS* complicated!


----------



## Guest

Chess is too.

BUT, looking at "courtship" as a game, that sure explains a whole lot of the treatment some of us here have suffered. We thought it was real, and we were the pawns in somebody else's game. That explains a heck of a lot.

I believe that you may have given me a bigger clue to the whole than Ox did. And he was spot on.


----------



## City Bound

courtship is a form of communication.


----------



## Terri

zong said:


> Chess is too.
> 
> BUT, looking at "courtship" as a game, that sure explains a whole lot of the treatment some of us here have suffered. We thought it was real, and we were the pawns in somebody else's game. That explains a heck of a lot.
> 
> I believe that you may have given me a bigger clue to the whole than Ox did. And he was spot on.


No, Zong, "YOU" said that courtship was a game. I have never once considered it so. I agree with City Bound: it is a form of communication.


----------



## Guest

"YOU" said rules. Not me. There are no rules to real life. There are consequences in real life. Rules are for structured past times. I drew the straight line conclusion between "rules" and "game" Not you. What you said was the clue that allowed the conclusion. It's like serendipity. It was right there., looking at me, and I saw it. Not my fault that I see what I see.

And when you say "No, Zong" with my post quoted, exactly what is it that you're disagreeing with??


----------



## Guest

I'm not trying to be argumentative. In this instance. You said something and a line or 2 just stood out to me. Like when people read a poem, some lines have a meaning to some people. And a different meaning to other people. Some people like one line, and some people like another. Some people believe there is no meaning, its just a poem. And some people just don't like poetry, period. 
That was what I got out of your post, My interpretation. I assumed that you meant to say what you said, and that your meaning was the same as my interpretation. I guess not. Something else for me to wonder about myself, I suppose.


----------



## whiskeylivewire

I just think it's a cop out...oh, men lie because women freak out so they keep lying to avoid the freak out.

Um no, the freak out is because lying, even about something small, is being dishonest. It always makes me wonder, if someone lies about something small, what the heck are they going to do when something BIG happens? 

I refuse to spend my life with someone who doesn't want to "feel my wrath" so they lie to me. How about trying to live with honor and integrity instead? Or do these men not exist anymore?


----------



## mountainwmn

For those that think men lie because women can't deal with the truth...I've been with some doozies. I can tell you from experience that when you catch a liar in a major lie and you don't care they get very upset. All the sudden it's you don't love me enough to care. 
I think most of them lie because they want what feels good to them at the moment, and just don't think about their partner. They wanted the drug, party, casino, girl in the short skirt, whatever...it felt good at the time, they didn't care, didn't think about you. And of course they aren't going to tell you. Just because he wants a girl half his age doesn't mean he doesn't love you. Or that it's worth having to move out over. 
You want the fun but not the consequences. 

My disclaimer is that not all men lie for the same reasons, there are some truly twisted individuals in the world. And I'm not even touching on why women lie. Plenty do. I would guess just as many women as men. 

Why can't courtship be a game? Life is a game. Play it. Enjoy it. You don't have to hurt other people to play. You don't have to win or lose. Of course there are rules. You can follow them or not. It's not like chess, more like beachball volleyball in the pool. Actually some people would probably enjoy life a lot more if they treated it like a game. And if it turns into a relationship, now you have somebody on your side of the net.


----------



## Evons hubby

whiskeylivewire said:


> How about trying to live with honor and integrity instead? Or do these men not exist anymore?


Oh we exist... there are millions of us... most however are married to women who appreciate us. After the age of around 20 or so, the single guys still on the market are there for a reason.


----------



## Guest

Yvonne's hubby said:


> Oh we exist... there are millions of us... most however are married to women who appreciate us. After the age of around 20 or so, the single guys still on the market are there for a reason.


Yeah, and if you find yourself alone again, at 60 or so, most of the women in the age bracket you're looking at are either bitter from their own failures, or playing "the game". Bitter women, you just have to back away from. Which means you're prime pickings for the game players. A couple rounds of that stuff, and you just sit there, glad you're still in a piece, and hoping the wounds heal and you ain't got rabies or distemper.


----------



## Evons hubby

zong said:


> Yeah, and if you find yourself alone again, at 60 or so, most of the women in the age bracket you're looking at are either bitter from their own failures, or playing "the game". Bitter women, you just have to back away from. Which means you're prime pickings for the game players. A couple rounds of that stuff, and you just sit there, glad you're still in a piece, and hoping the wounds heal and you ain't got rabies or distemper.


Thats one of the reasons I looked at younger women the last time... My Yvonne (according to all odds) should outlive me, and I wont need to go through all that ever again. Good ones.... men or women are hard to find simply because they get found pretty fast and are no longer in the pool. 

The best "hunting ground" for a good mate is not at the local pub.... try the funeral home instead.... widows can be delightful!


----------



## Guest

There are people who will find you solely for the purpose of beating you real good for having the audacity to trust them, too. I see what some women have to say, and I feel sorry for the last guy that was with them, and even sorrier for the next one.


----------



## fantasymaker

zong said:


> If you've got a wife, why are you in Singletree?
> It says : Country Singletree A *Country Singles* Forum
> Did Yvonne dump you? Are you unhappy with your wife? Just looking for intelligent conversation? Itching for a whupping?? What??


LOL Its a singles forum He was once single and just might be trying not to be again!
Sorta like all the other forums you gotta have those that know what they are talking about to mentor those that dont.


----------



## FarmboyBill

The funeral home. Guess you could luck out, OR luck OUT. Either way, I guess would be a +


----------



## fantasymaker

Men Lie for 3 reasons.
Its easyer.


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## Guest

I looked real hard at a widows/widowers forum and decided to stay out. One reason, some of those people were so hurt that it took them 4 or 5 years to even verbalize their feelings. And their pain shows, as clear as day. When I look at that, as compared to, say, a woman who leaves her husband because he didn't want to support her brother or some such imagined slight, I really empathize with the widow. At the same time, I'm really into "today" as opposed to 5 years ago. I mean, I know my life was much happier then, but I'm here now, and no longer there and then. 
Once those women come to terms with reality, and are ready to move forward, if they're much count, there is a line a mile long of guys who would be tickled to death to talk to a decent woman. Not much reason to get in that line. I ain't gonna live forever. I can do everything that needs doing, and once in a while wonder about the way things should be. Or, I can just give myself more to do to occupy my energies. Either way, I'm not about sitting, waiting, hoping, none of that. Reminds me of one of my daddy's sayings. "Hope in one hand, crap in the other, and see which one gets full fastest"


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## whiskeylivewire

Yvonne's hubby said:


> Oh we exist... there are millions of us... most however are married to women who appreciate us. After the age of around 20 or so, the single guys still on the market are there for a reason.



I understand what you're saying to a point but there are the men that had women appreciate them that didn't deserve it.

I was being half way sarcastic about the men being honorable thing because I know there are honorable men. I just suck at picking men


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## whiskeylivewire

I will also say that I am pretty biased right now and bitter; I'll admit it. I know there are great men out there and eventually I'll meet one. I'll probably ignore him but I'm sure I'll meet him


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## katydidagain

whiskeylivewire said:


> I will also say that I am pretty biased right now and bitter; I'll admit it. I know there are great men out there and eventually I'll meet one. I'll probably ignore him but I'm sure I'll meet him


I suspect you'll give him a chance, too. Me? Keeping my head down and avoiding any possibilities: my choice.


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## Laura

> Help me
> Are you saying (the bold) that if the woman, catches her man in a lie (calling BS).....and he starts to get angry, that the woman's reply is to LIE back to him by saying "it never crossed my mind"?


No, that's not what I said. 

When your man tells you something that makes you feel good and you find evidence that it *may not* be true and you say something that sounds like calling BS to him, and he begins to explain himself, but finds it too emotionally big at the moment, he will start to get angry.

You the woman, Keeper of his Heart, have a choice.

You can ASSUME his anger is proof he lied and engage in a War of Words which you're better at, and never reach the center of the REAL issue. 

OR

You can CHOOSE to trust and respect the man you're in a relationship with, realize his anger is because he perceives you doubted him. You can choose to wait a week or so for him to give you the truth one dribbled piece at a time at his own pace, not the flood all at once like we women do. You can CHOOSE to admit to yourself you're not always right and give him the benefit of the doubt.* 

Some Relationships are this important. 

My personal position is if I don't have this level of trust and respect with a man, he shouldn't have my address, be in my home and I sure as heck shouldn't be having sex with him. 

I'm not real comfortable with that obssession thing, especially in the stalker kind of way, but I'm totally into No Drama. We talk a lot about what we want in a relationship but we have no clue how to get there, we think it should be instantaneous. How will we KNOW if somebody will have our back no matter what if we're not willing to have theirs over what may have been a stupid brain fart?

Yeah, the stupid little stuff, some of it is sooo goofy! Ya see it when it's happening, follow it just to see where it goes because it makes you laugh! Timing is everything! It can lead you to the heart of the relationship, where you both trust each other for deeper emotional intimacy and the best, giggle about your peculiarities.

No, not all men "LIE." It's been my observation those who don't are evasive and avoidant.

*Does not apply to sociopaths, addicts, alcoholics, mentally ill, whackjobs, nutjobs, parasites and the criminally insane.


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## Vickie44

Lies of omission and little white lies are of little concern. Men and women are very different and there needs to be more attempts at understanding that difference especialy regarding communication styles. Time often reveals the true intentions and both parties can learn from what is discovered through a more patient approach.

I am aware of how burnt I was by manipulative, pathological liars . Frequently their intention is the best , they want the people around them to be happy but most of all they are very selfish , lazy and destructive. I just dont have the patience to wade thru all that crap anymore . I 'd rather just be friends


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## Laura Zone 5

I must be weird.
A lie, no matter what color crayon you use, is a lie.


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## Laura

Laura Zone 5 said:


> I must be weird.
> A lie, no matter what color crayon you use, is a lie.


I don't think you're weird. I openly admit to being the weird one.

Things are not always as they appear. What may seem to be a lie to you at first glance may simply be a difference in the way men and women's brains work. Accept and embrace our differences.

If you trust and respect yourself enough to make good choices about a man, you can feel secure in yourself to not have emotional meltdowns when you don't understand what his words mean. If you keep emotionally safe for him, he will dribble out truth.

Would you scream at and dump a man for "lying" if he was planning a surprise party for you?

Now just because I can give men unconditional acceptance, it doesn't mean I'm a doormat. I have pretty firm boundaries that are not crossed.


----------



## glazed

:donut:

I think I know what Laura is saying, or trying to say? Or at least an aspect of it?

If your man is BSing, and you know it and he knows you know it ... assuming you have an overall good relationship, and are dedicated to preserving that relationship ... how we react (good or bad) will have a huge influence (good or bad.)

I know when I call my Man out on his BS, with a spitfire twinkle in my eye, and maybe even a serious stomp of my foot, I let him know without a doubt his BS stinks to high heaven ... sometimes I even hold my nose! 

By reacting in such a way, I can call him out without becoming irrational, going all-psycho, losing control, and making things worse by driving him away.

And when this happens he usually grins at the silliness of it all, but his face also gets kinda red cause he knows he is busted ... _Dang, that little thang, she done caught me and got me good and stood up tall to me and twisted my boys in a vice and, but, huh, she let me go?_ 

Sometimes I hear a "it won't happen again" from him ... and, from my experience, so far, once my Man says that he stays true to his word. 

Most times, nothing is expressed at all but that red grin of his ... and from my experience with that, it still doesn't happen again.

We women can stand our ground without our men losing face, and without us becoming a wall-eyed witch ... and both of us can be happy for the learning experience and of the outcome.

Turn a negative into a positive.

There are so many diverse dynamics between men and women ... and how each of us feel/think ... and, in relationships between men and women, we women really do have the upper-hand. 

((( sssshhh, don't tell the boys that )))

How many of us have seen a woman throw a complete fit, and how many of us have seen that 'complete fit' make things better?

There really does not have to be a power-struggle in a relationship ... we women really do control the climate, the health, the mood, and the direction we are going within our relationships. All of them.

Of course none of this applies to people with addictions and/or mental health issues ... or people who simply have what we call "a bad seed" or a plain-n-simple mean streak.

I think this would only apply to people who are basically of clear mind, and solid character. 

The reality is we are all human and there will always be BS to contend with in one way, or another. 

I choose to acknowledge it, when I come upon it, and then walk around it. 

I choose not to squat down to examine it, pick it up, put it up to my nose, squish it between my fingers, and wipe it on my pretty clothes to keep the poop smell inside my nostrils.

:donut:


----------



## Laura

Exactly! If we go psycho shrew with every bit of BS, we destroy the possibility of learning and growing with the other person.

Then we wonder why we can never find a good relationship.


----------



## unregistered168043

Laura I think that is true but also many people don't really know their own mind and when asked a question they take the 'path of least resistance'. It may not be their intent to deceive but they don't have a ready answer and so under pressure of questioning they give the answer that is easiest.


I've learned to slow down the whole discussion by honestly saying 'I'm not sure, let me think about it' or something along those lines. After a while when I've thought about it and considered how to communicate my thoughts, I will answer.


----------



## Evons hubby

whiskeylivewire said:


> I understand what you're saying to a point but there are the men that had women appreciate them that didn't deserve it.
> 
> I just suck at picking men


Yep, an those are pretty much the ones you find out there in the "available pool". When I go fishin, I dont always bring home the best fish.... when that happens too often I try different baits, and change fishin holes.... maybe you need to change your bait... and look in different places.


----------



## Evons hubby

zong said:


> There are people who will find you solely for the purpose of beating you real good for having the audacity to trust them, too. I see what some women have to say, and I feel sorry for the last guy that was with them, and even sorrier for the next one.


Yeppers... I have only been reading the posts here for a few days... and its already pretty clear to me why some of these folks are single. Others puzzle me... as to why someone hasnt snapped them up yet.


----------



## Evons hubby

fantasymaker said:


> LOL Its a singles forum He was once single and just might be trying not to be again!
> Sorta like all the other forums you gotta have those that know what they are talking about to mentor those that dont.


Well, like I told Zong... I got here by mistake, but thought I would try to help out with some input on a post that caught my eye... (that wasnt very well received! LOL) since I have had a fair amount of experience in these matters. Just tryin to help out mostly.


----------



## Laura

Darntootin said:


> Laura I think that is true but also many people don't really know their own mind and when asked a question they take the 'path of least resistance'. It may not be their intent to deceive but they don't have a ready answer and so under pressure of questioning they give the answer that is easiest.
> 
> 
> I've learned to slow down the whole discussion by honestly saying 'I'm not sure, let me think about it' or something along those lines. After a while when I've thought about it and considered how to communicate my thoughts, I will answer.


I mostly agree with this, perhaps we're using different words. 

I don't believe when men do this their intent is to deceive. They know their mind, they don't know their "feelings" or what they want to share "right now." Path of least resistance, easiest....

I think it's the default mode of the male brain, his survivalist instinct to immediately go grey until he can process his feelings and how much he wants to share. When he knows it's safe, he'll share it all.

Some men learn to slow down enough to say they're not sure they need to think about it before discussing things, and that's wonderful!

But even for wonderful men like you, there are the encounters with anxious women who say they love you who will shriek, "THAT'S NOT GOOD ENOUGH! WE'RE GOING TO DISCUSS THIS RIGHT NOW!!!!! Or maybe not shriek, but in a trembly pleading voice.

Tell me that don't kick you into survival mode!


----------



## Laura Zone 5

Man......I was lied to every single day for 20 years.....and had no friggin clue.
No, really none.
And I am a pretty smart chick.
"What did you take for lunch today?"
"Left over meat loaf"
Brings home empty cleaned out tupperware..
Funny, he ate at Taco Bell.

Was that a lie? Nawwww that was DECEPTION.
Giving facts, not truth.
I didn't ask the question the right way.......
Do you know what happens when a human gets away with 'deception' for years.....awww yeah, it turns into BOLD FACED QUEEN MOTHER lies.
That *ain't love.* 

Just like the dog poop in the brownies, starts with a sprinkle, and ends up being 100% dog poop with some chocolate frosting.....and you've been eating poop for so long, you have no idea IT'S ALL POOP.

Sorry. If I walk out of the dressing room and say to my spouse "does this dress make my butt look funny"? By God if it does, he better tell me and not let me walk out in public looking like a fool. If he LOVED me he would tell me. And I will thank him, heck I may throw down with him in the dressing room for BEING HONEST!! 

There is a difference between:
Deception
Lying
Covert
Surprise birthday parties are a covert operation. NOT a lie.
Deception is giving FACTS, not TRUTH.
And lying is one thing I will NEVER again tolerate. Ever.
I am as loyal as they come, but 1rst time shame on you.
2nd time shame on me.

Ever hear a mom say "no jonny if you don't stop I am gonna count to 3 then swat your bottom"?
Yeah, I looked at my kids and said "I am going to count.....one, two LIFT OFF.
They didn't get 3.
This ain't baseball. 2 strikes, you're out.


----------



## Laura

@Laura Zone 5:
*Does not apply to sociopaths, addicts, alcoholics, mentally ill, whackjobs, nutjobs, parasites and the criminally insane. 

So where are your boundaries? How do you enforce them? How do you react to truth?



Oh yeah, 20/20 hindsight, choose wisely.


----------



## glazed

:donut:

Well ... pack his lunch for him, and you'd know what he took for lunch (if that is important to you) and you wouldn't have to ask what he took for lunch.

He's a grown man, and if he craves _Bell_ ... well, then, goodness gracious, he craves _Bell_.

I think there are more important questions to ask ... like, how was your day? how many fires did you have to put out? 

:donut:


----------



## Laura Zone 5

glazed said:


> :donut:
> 
> Well ... pack his lunch for him, and you'd know what he took for lunch (if that is important to you) and you wouldn't have to ask what he took for lunch.
> 
> He's a grown man, and if he craves _Bell_ ... well, then, goodness gracious, he craves _Bell_.
> 
> I think there are more important questions to ask ... like, how was your day? how many fires did you have to put out?
> 
> :donut:


I was just giving an example of the difference between deception and lying, and how deception leads to bald face lying......
I knew what he had for lunch...I packed it at 4:00 in the morning when I got home from work.
I made sure he had food that he liked. I ate food I didn't like so that he could have leftovers that HE liked.
I'd pack love notes, or special candies he liked, etc.....
I'd ask "how was lunch".
He would say "it was awesome thanks for the treats, or got your note"
When he was really scooping it in the trash, and going out to lunch, and then saying he needed more money for gas. (back when we were super broke)
I picked up an extra shift a week......for his extra 'gas money'
That was really his eating out money. HIS eating out money.
Did he ever take me out to eat? no.
Did he lie his arce off to me so he could selfishly indulge? yes.
Did he ALLOW ME to WORK EXTRA SHIFTS so that HE could go out to eat at lunch, taking away time he could have spent with me or that I could have spent with my 3 children ????? oh yes he did. for years.

Lying hurts innocent people.
Lying and deception makes a person "appear" one way, when clearly they are NOT what they appear, theyby allowing the deceived one to LIVE a lie.

All I am saying is this.
Women lie, Men lie.
Lying sucks. Don't do it.
It hurts. And eventually you will be found out, and it may cost you everything.


----------



## Laura

Laura, have you set your firm boundary and told him to get out?

I know, honor your vows. He already broke 'em, if he ever honored 'em in the first place. Canon Law allows for annulment if a person was incapable of honoring their vows. Yourmarriage sounds like a candidate for annulment.

Protestants have ideas that a wife can leave under abuse conditions or separate or remarry if one commits adultery. 

Buy the man a hooker.


----------



## Evons hubby

Laura said:


> "THAT'S NOT GOOD ENOUGH! WE'RE GOING TO DISCUSS THIS RIGHT NOW!!!!! Or maybe not shriek, but in a trembly pleading voice.
> 
> Tell me that don't kick you into survival mode!


I have put in a lot of extra hours in the shop behind that one. Usually with the comment of "You want to discuss it? Then discuss it with yourself, I am going to be busy". Or some other equally mundane approach. Experience taught me early on when a woman comes off that way, they are not looking to discuss anything.... they are fixing to chew someones butt.... and if mine aint there it dont get chewed on. When I am finished putting that clutch in the truck, or tuning up the tractor, invariably they will be in a much better mood, and have forgotten all about the "discussion".


----------



## Evons hubby

Laura Zone 5 said:


> If I walk out of the dressing room and say to my spouse "does this dress make my butt look funny"? By God if it does, he better tell me and not let me walk out in public looking like a fool. If he LOVED me he would tell me. And I will thank him, heck I may throw down with him in the dressing room for BEING HONEST!!


I dont think there is a man alive willing to risk an honest answer to that question! Why not just ask him if he has quit cheating on you?!?!?!  

I happen to know for a fact that an honest answer such as: "its not the pants thats doing it" is frowned upon.


----------



## Evons hubby

Laura Zone 5 said:


> "What did you take for lunch today?"
> "Left over meat loaf"
> Brings home empty cleaned out tupperware..
> Funny, he ate at Taco Bell.
> 
> Was that a lie? Nawwww that was DECEPTION.


It was neither a lie, nor deception. If you want to know what the man "ate" for lunch... then ask him what he ate for lunch and you will most likely get something like: "I had a burrito". A woman should never ask questions "assuming" that a man speaks or understands "womenese". We simply do not! You asked him what he took for lunch... he replied openly and honestly, guys are like that.  

As an aside... yer lucky he brought home the tupperware!


----------



## katydidagain

Yvonne's hubby said:


> I have put in a lot of extra hours in the shop behind that one. Usually with the comment of "You want to discuss it? Then discuss it with yourself, I am going to be busy". Or some other equally mundane approach. Experience taught me early on when a woman comes off that way, they are not looking to discuss anything.... they are fixing to chew someones butt.... and if mine aint there it dont get chewed on. When I am finished putting that clutch in the truck, or tuning up the tractor, invariably they will be in a much better mood, and have forgotten all about the "discussion".


How many times did you say you've been married?


----------



## Evons hubby

katydidagain said:


> How many times did you say you've been married?


I have set two wives to the curb.... so far my Yvonne seems to be doing pretty good... I might just keep her.


----------



## katydidagain

Yvonne's hubby said:


> I have set two wives to the curb.... so far my Yvonne seems to be doing pretty good... I might just keep her.


'Twould be interesting to hear their sides--the 2 rejects and the 1 for whom I feel very sorry. BTW, I appreciate someone telling me that an outfit isn't flattering. Why would someone who claims to love me and want what's best for me purposefully send me out in public to be snickered at?


----------



## whiskeylivewire

Yvonne's hubby said:


> Yep, an those are pretty much the ones you find out there in the "available pool". When I go fishin, I dont always bring home the best fish.... when that happens too often I try different baits, and change fishin holes.... maybe you need to change your bait... and look in different places.


I'm a slow learner but I am learning lol

1. I can't fix anyone.
2. I am not chasing anyone. If they want me they can chase ME. (not literally but ya know, they have to make an effort.)
3. I'm not settling for the first person to want me. I'm pretty awesome; there will be lots that want me 

Those are 3 that I've learned so far but I'm always learning more!


----------



## Laura

katydidagain said:


> 'Twould be interesting to hear their sides--the 2 rejects and the 1 for whom I feel very sorry. BTW, I appreciate someone telling me that an outfit isn't flattering. Why would someone who claims to love me and want what's best for me purposefully send me out in public to be snickered at?


Interesting perception you have. You dress yourself in clothes you choose. You ask your man if you look good in them. He being your man wants to please you so he says, "Yes, that's very nice, you're beautiful." He'd rather see you in that hot number he tore off you the night before but he knows you aint wearing that to town.

So explain it to me, how did it get from you dressing yourself, to him purposely sending you out to be snickered at? Are you a grown up or a clown baby?


----------



## CajunSunshine

Honesty ranks high in my book. 'tis a shame that it is so rare in our society. When I see such things as honesty, integrity and scruples in a person, I hold That One more than a few notches above the rest. These traits also "cover over" a multitude of character flaws...even serious ones. A person's integrity also promotes respect. It's hard to love or to even deal with someone you don't respect. That's human nature, and one of the reasons why honesty is so important to the success of any relationship, be it a marriage, friendship or a business relationship. Just my $1.99 ($0.02 adjusted for inflation).


----------



## katydidagain

Laura said:


> Interesting perception you have. You dress yourself in clothes you choose. You ask your man if you look good in them. He being your man wants to please you so he says, "Yes, that's very nice, you're beautiful." He'd rather see you in that hot number he tore off you the night before but he knows you aint wearing that to town.
> 
> So explain it to me, how did it get from you dressing yourself, to him purposely sending you out to be snickered at? Are you a grown up or a clown baby?


Huh? I do dress myself; I don't ask for opinions. I was replying to the guy who thinks a woman asks and doesn't want the truth. Married to a consummate liar for 25 years (yes, he actually lied about little stuff just to "keep sharp" ), I thought I'd chosen wiser. Nope. 2 strikes--not going for #3.


----------



## Laura

Speaking as a woman, if I ask a man how I look, I'm seeking validation. 
I know he has no fashion sense.


----------



## Terri

If a man tells you that you look good, it likely has nothing to do with fashions! But men do know what they like!


----------



## Laura

Terri said:


> If a man tells you that you look good, it likely has nothing to do with fashions! But men do know what they like!


But a man who loves you, you don't have to ASK, "How do I look?" You can see he'd crawl through broken glass to get to you. If you pay attention.


----------



## wyld thang

Laura said:


> Speaking as a woman, if I ask a man how I look, I'm seeking validation.
> I know he has no fashion sense.


hm, I do know that men like tails(fox,coyote). You can wear a dog food sack, but if you pin a tail on it...


----------



## Sourdough

"LAURA, *Does not apply to sociopaths, addicts, alcoholics, mentally ill, whackjobs, nutjobs, parasites and the criminally insane". 

It normally takes about a year for a Lady to figure me out. (I am however NOT a sociopath) And you left out nosepicker, and short wienered.


----------



## Terri

Laura said:


> But a man who loves you, you don't have to ASK, "How do I look?" You can see he'd crawl through broken glass to get to you. If you pay attention.


Crawl through broken glass? Yes, I suspect that DH would. 

Know what I am thinking or know what I want him to do or say? Nope. He simply does not *DO* telepathy! :l33t:


----------



## Laura

Sourdough said:


> "LAURA, *Does not apply to sociopaths, addicts, alcoholics, mentally ill, whackjobs, nutjobs, parasites and the criminally insane".
> 
> It normally takes about a year for a Lady to figure me out. (I am however NOT a sociopath) And you left out nosepicker, and short wienered.


Wanna be my lab rat? 

I can tell you why you pick your nose in three words.


----------



## wyld thang

Laura said:


> Wanna be my lab rat?
> 
> I can tell you why you pick your nose in three words.


if I say I'll be your labrat will you tell me why Sourdough picks his nose?


----------



## glazed

:donut:

Sweetie, I can tell you -in three words- why Sourdough picks his nose .. and you wont have to be anybody's lab rat.

He has boogers.

Now get over here, and dance on the pool table, while this feller is racking the balls for our next round.

:donut:


----------



## wyld thang

yes ma'am! 

purple or leopard?


----------



## Laura

Oh Glazed! You're a Circus Psychic too?!?!?!

Oh dear, the Kid just blew Saigon Soup out her nose reading over my shoulder.


----------



## Laura Zone 5

whiskeylivewire said:


> I'm a slow learner but I am learning lol
> 
> 1. I can't fix anyone.
> 2. I am not chasing anyone. If they want me they can chase ME. (not literally but ya know, they have to make an effort.)
> 3. I'm not settling for the first person to want me. I'm pretty awesome; there will be lots that want me
> 
> Those are 3 that I've learned so far but I'm always learning more!


I sent you a PM!!


----------



## glazed

:donut:

Wyld Thang!

PURPLE and PINK leopard!!!!! 

And, OMGoodness, you made me laugh down deep out loud Laura!!!!!!!!!!
:donut:


----------



## Vickie44

Lying hurts innocent people.
Lying and deception makes a person "appear" one way, when clearly they are NOT what they appear, theyby allowing the deceived one to LIVE a lie.

Laura Zone 5: I get what you are saying. Until youve been around someone who would lie about what they had for breakfast when you didnt even ask it isnt easy to understand. This isnt about simplicity , its about manipulation and if your honest and nice you wont see it happening until you are entrenched. I dont know how to get over it, do you ?


----------



## Laura Zone 5

Vickie44 said:


> Lying hurts innocent people.
> Lying and deception makes a person "appear" one way, when clearly they are NOT what they appear, theyby allowing the deceived one to LIVE a lie.
> 
> Laura Zone 5: I get what you are saying. Until youve been around someone who would lie about what they had for breakfast when you didnt even ask it isnt easy to understand. This isnt about simplicity , its about manipulation and if your honest and nice you wont see it happening until you are entrenched. *I dont know how to get over it, do you ?*


How you get over being lied to, or how to stop lying?


----------



## Vickie44

:kiss: Ha . I dont think the liars CAN stop. I mean for me , I feel stupid for what I never noticed but I dont want to be suspicious of everything .


----------



## Laura Zone 5

Vickie44 said:


> :kiss: Ha . I dont think the liars CAN stop. I mean for me , I feel stupid for what I never noticed but I dont want to be suspicious of everything .


You know, when I look back, knowing what I know now.....I look back TRYING to find the 'red flags' I missed before......
When I tell you they were not there. They were not there. No red flags.
((Well except the cell bill. Had I been the suspicious type, I would have busted him a lot sooner than I did.))

My first reaction was "wow am I dumb".
It's taken me a while, (about a year) but no......I was not DUMB, 
I was honest with him. I was loyal. I trusted. I took my vows seriously. 
IT IS HE who chose to take advantage of my loyalty, my trust, and my commitment to our vows. HE is the snake. Not I.
HE is the one who is lost. Not I.
HE is the one who CHOOSES this path. Not I.

I used to wish he was more involved with raising the kids....now, I see how God protected them. 

((I firmly believe that the only way a person can truly change (addiction/selfishness/lying/ etc) is through Christ. 
We are ruled by The One or the other.))

Part of my healing is that I am going to step out of my comfort zone and go to college. 
I have not been in school for 30 years, and didn't do so well then! 
I have always "believed" I was 'too dumb' for book learning, that I will just be a waitress all my life and that's good enough.
Horse Feathers.
I am getting ME well. Physically, emotionally, mentally, Spiritually.
I am not longer focusing on "wow I wasted 23 years of my life. wow I really look dumb. wow I sure didn't see that coming", etc.
When those thoughts come in, I push them out with what is POSITIVE.
"wow I wasted 23 years of my life" 
REPLACED WITH
"wow, in 4 years I will have a degree in nursing".
or
'wow I really look dumb"
REPLACED WITH
"I was honest, loyal, true, trusting and kept my promise: those are GOOD character qualities. 
I have a lot of good inside and I can't wait to share it with the world"!
or
"wow I sure didn't see that coming"
REPLACED WITH
"I get to see my son play hockey this year, I can't wait for Thanksgiving and Christmas when I get to see him. 
I am so thankful for the three amazing children that I was blessed to have. 
I am so thankful that I invested my everything into them, look at what amazing people they are today".

Think of the mind as a room with wall paper.
After a human gets pooped on, that wallpaper stinks. It's ugly negative hateful and damaging.
Strip that old crap off and start hanging NEW wallpaper.
Beautiful paper that YOU pick out.
Positive and Truthful wall paper.
Changing the brain and the way it thinks sets the whole body in motion.

I chose life!!


----------



## Laura

@Laura Zone 5: I'm glad you're out of it and repairing the damage it caused to you. Changing the wallpaper is a good start, it's important. When you're ready you may see a foundation stone and mortar is crumbled and sill is rotted out. That is how chameleons got in. Changing wallpaper and building thicker walls won't keep them out.

What I mean, what is it about US that attracts these lizards and causes them to pursue us with such passion? Are we flying Gullible Victim banners? Do we give too much, trust without verification? I know my BPD whackjob ex was in it to feed off my grief. If I wasn't bleeding enough, he'd twist the knife. He lied right from the beginning, many I didn't discover until after he was gone! He'd lie about lying. I met him in church.

Men "lie," except the emotionally unavailable ones who evade and avoid. All men become emotionally unavailable at times, some are just unavailable to us.

Let it ride.

A good man gets emotionally overwhelmed but will give the truth of his heart in small parcels over time. It's a wonderful, beautiful place.*

A bad man will stand on his lie, build on it and it has nothing to do with pleasing you, it's about his own self-gratification.


----------



## L.A.

glazed said:


> :donut:
> 
> Sweetie, I can tell you -in three words- why Sourdough picks his nose .. and you wont have to be anybody's lab rat.
> 
> He has boogers.
> 
> Now get over here, and dance on the pool table, while this feller is racking the balls for our next round.
> 
> :donut:


So..nose picking Solved....What about his teeny weeny....


----------



## katydidagain

Laura said:


> @Laura Zone 5: I'm glad you're out of it and repairing the damage it caused to you. Changing the wallpaper is a good start, it's important. When you're ready you may see a foundation stone and mortar is crumbled and sill is rotted out. That is how chameleons got in. Changing wallpaper and building thicker walls won't keep them out.
> 
> What I mean, what is it about US that attracts these lizards and causes them to pursue us with such passion? Are we flying Gullible Victim banners? Do we give too much, trust without verification? I know my BPD whackjob ex was in it to feed off my grief. If I wasn't bleeding enough, he'd twist the knife. He lied right from the beginning, many I didn't discover until after he was gone! *He'd lie about lying. * I met him in church.
> 
> Men "lie," except the emotionally unavailable ones who evade and avoid. All men become emotionally unavailable at times, some are just unavailable to us.
> 
> Let it ride.
> 
> A good man gets emotionally overwhelmed but will give the truth of his heart in small parcels over time. It's a wonderful, beautiful place.*
> 
> A bad man will stand on his lie, build on it and it has nothing to do with pleasing you, it's about his own self-gratification.


WOW! I thought I was the only "stupid" woman in the world! 

BTW, until you've finished rebuilding, don't listen to any guy who insists "We're not all alike". Until you have your walls fortified and roof sound, the ones that pursue you *ARE all alike*. Or worse. AMHIK.


----------



## Laura

katydidagain said:


> WOW! I thought I was the only "stupid" woman in the world!
> 
> BTW, until you've finished rebuilding, don't listen to any guy who insists "We're not all alike". Until you have your walls fortified and roof sound, the ones that pursue you *ARE all alike*. Or worse. AMHIK.


No, there's a lot of us who suffered through a case of the Stupids! 

Recover and heal quickly! It's not enough to fortify walls and fix the roof when there's holes in the foundation and sills. They hold up the walls and that's where the rats, snakes and chameleons get in. We're never really done rebuilding, learning, growing.

What a man SAYS is not nearly important as what he DOES. Lean back and see where he goes. Doesn't mean you have to go with him. By his fruits......


----------



## fantasymaker

Laura said:


> Speaking as a woman, if I ask a man how I look, I'm seeking validation.
> I know he has no fashion sense.


LOL and women dont have ANY sence.......
.
.
.NO No I dont really mean it! The point is some men have fashion sence morethan you might think cause most of us who do dont use it.
Wheres the duck and cover Icon?


----------



## wyld thang

Laura said:


> What a man SAYS is not nearly important as what he DOES. Lean back and see where he goes. Doesn't mean you have to go with him. By his fruits......


exactly

and like I've said before, listen to the DOG :rock:


----------



## Terri in WV

Vickie44 said:


> Lying hurts innocent people.
> Lying and deception makes a person "appear" one way, when clearly they are NOT what they appear, theyby allowing the deceived one to LIVE a lie.
> 
> Laura Zone 5: I get what you are saying. Until youve been around someone who would lie about what they had for breakfast when you didnt even ask it isnt easy to understand. This isnt about simplicity , its about manipulation and if your honest and nice you wont see it happening until you are entrenched. I dont know how to get over it, do you ?


Put yourself in the shoes of the next person you may see. They may have been with a chronic liar also. Would you like them to judge you by the person they were with in the past?

I believe in giving a person a chance until they may prove otherwise. My hubs was one of those liars that lied about stupid stuff. Does it make me doubt every man I meet? No, because they are not him.

I could spend years thinking that I was stupid, rebuilding the house around me or I can move forward and trust that I came away from it a more aware person. Maybe I'm naive(and stupid) but I'll choose that any day over being bitter.


----------



## Laura

wyld thang said:


> exactly
> 
> and like I've said before, listen to the DOG :rock:


This is where I went wrong. I didn't have a dog at the time. Montana was too tough for my Farm Collie so I took him back to the Siskiyous.

I only had a cat, and we know cats LIE! :benice:


----------



## Sourdough

Are there any healthy normal people on this forum.....??? 

(I am not suggesting that I qualify).


----------



## Laura

Sourdough said:


> Are there any healthy normal people on this forum.....???
> 
> (I am not suggesting that I qualify).


Probably not. Do you like cats?


----------



## Sourdough

Laura said:


> Probably not. Do you like cats?


Cats are like a good woman, they don't expect much, they are calm & reflective. They are happy to just curl up and be safely, gentle petted.

I do prefer a good dog as a cheap early warning system of danger.


----------



## Vickie44

Interesting definition of a good woman :boring:


----------



## Laura Zone 5

Vickie44 said:


> Interesting definition of a good woman :boring:


how much they miss when they define another human being by what's between their knees or what's in a wallet.....

BUT and _*I mean this:*_

I TOTALLY appreciate the up front honesty. 
There is no sham or false pretense there. YOU KNOW exactly what you are walking into. Eyes Wide Open. 
That way everyone knows where everyone stands in the relationship.
Don't like it? Don't enter into it!
THAT is the kind of honesty, that I personally appreciate!!!


----------



## sidepasser

I don't have a clue why men lie or women for that matter, I do think that some are very good liars (having been married to one) and they believe their lies. As Wanda Sikes says" you gonna lie, you got to stick with that lie" 

My ex was very good at lying, so good at it that his lies were his truth and he believed his lies, and told them so well that everyone around him believed his lies. I finally figured out the lies and even in the face of evidence (she standing in the room with us) he refused to admit to his lies..
I finally said I was leaving as "our Mistress just isn't that good looking"..
Only then did he "get it" and by then, it was too late.

We all get taken in on occasion, the idea is not to let it happen again. Be more aware, more observant and quicker to call BS on it and much quicker to hold an accounting. I think people sometimes don't call for an accounting..because they are afraid of the consequences..maybe he/she will leave and other bad things might happen. Only those things would not be bad things in the long run.


----------



## glazed

L.A. said:


> So..nose picking Solved....What about his teeny weeny....




oh my goodness gracious, 
I had intentionally avoided that part.


----------



## Laura

Sourdough said:


> Cats are like a good woman, they don't expect much, they are calm & reflective. They are happy to just curl up and be safely, gentle petted.
> 
> I do prefer a good dog as a cheap early warning system of danger.


How do I know you're not lying? :kissy::stars:


----------



## Bret

This thread has been burning a hole in me just like the lies I told as a boy when I was old enough to remember but young enough to get away with it. 

Imagine a stare down like Opey and Andy when my dad caught me in a "bold face". I don't know if my dad, who was an only child was remembering a similar situation when he was a boy, with his dad, or what, but that moment could have been the end of my time on earth. 

At some time during the eternity of the confrontation, he excused me to do some hard choring and it was never brought up again. It didn't have to be.

My dad hated a lie but he loved his kids. I knew that I did not fool my dad for a moment and my dad knew that I knew it. I hated the seperation from my dad as much as the bile in my mouth from my lie. 

My dad is gone now. He left me in tact. He also showed me that day how to confront a lie although he probably did not know it. I have looked into the eyes of a person telling a lie--sometimes a friend, co-worker, boss, child--and they know that I know. Right is it's own reward. 

In the movie "Shindler's List" there is a scene where Shindler is asked something like "where does your power come from." Trying to save another life, Shindler, talking to a head of a prinson camp, answers something like--Power is when you have someone in your sites and you don't pull the trigger. My dad, wow, could have destroyed me.

On the other hand my dad could tell stories about the successes of his kids and the stories would get bigger every time. My dad knew it and he knew that we knew it. But he was powerless to stop when he got wound up. We just had to stand there and take it.

You have to love a lier. He made so many of us. OK...liers on the with the cat food popcorn balls...non-liers on the right with the peanut butter rice crispy squares topped off with Nesltes Toll House Chocolate Chips.

It looks like I will never get those rice crispy squares. But, thanks for never quitting Dad.

Post Quick Reply--Is that a lie? Please don't shoot me.


----------



## Laura Zone 5

Bret,

I never 'screamed' at my children.
But when they were caught in a lie.........it really wasn't a scream.
It was a deep gutteral growl.
It was then an in depth (at their age level) discussion of how their ONE lie effect X amount of people, and in a negative way.
I told them all you have on earth, is your integrity and work ethic.
It only takes one time of blowing it to undo Y-E-A-R-S of doing it right.
And you may never been seen as you were before.

My 20 year old son, lied to me last year.
He had not been to bed, and drove in the middle of the night to come home to surprise me.
When I asked if he had slept he said yes.
Less than 5 min later, he said "mom, I lied. yes, I did take a 30 min nap, but no I did not sleep. no excuses, I lied." We hugged. I thanked him for his full disclosure honesty.


Your father sounds like an amazing man. Thank you for sharing!


----------



## FarmboyBill

By Golly Z I think your right about the cats. But in other ways also lol.


----------



## FarmboyBill

1 Dogs love you. Cats put up with you, as long as you feed them
2 Dogs are dependant you you. Cats are independant of you, and think they own you
3 Dogs have been known to find their owners grave and stay there, OR travel hundreds of miles to come home. How many cats u hear doing that?
4 a dog will eat what your eating nearly. A cat wont touch it usually.
5 A dog will walk with you for as long as you can stand to walk. A cat wont hardly go a block.


----------



## Laura

Bill don't know much about cats either.


----------



## katydidagain

1 Dogs love you. Cats put up with you, as long as you feed them. _Dogs only love you for what you can give them; cats are more discriminating about why they love you-believe me, they can totally adore the right one._

2 Dogs are dependant you you. Cats are independant of you, and think they own you _Dogs suck the life out of you--they need a lot of attention. Cats are aware that 2 people in a relationship need boundaries; they set theirs and, if you don't like it, that's fine. They'll move on. And they won't be insulted if you decide they're not your cup of tea._

3 Dogs have been known to find their owners grave and stay there, OR travel hundreds of miles to come home. How many cats u hear doing that? _Dogs are locked into routines; they can't think outside of the box. Cats are much smarter; they know if you want them, you'll come get them if they're lost. If not, someone better will take them in._

4 a dog will eat what your eating nearly. A cat wont touch it usually. _A dog will eat really disgusting things (not saying what because it's really gross): things I sure wouldn't eat. Because they have no taste or sense, they wolf it all down then either toss it back up or have the trots for a few days. Will they remember something disagreed with their tummy? HA! A cat is intelligently picky. They will taste something but reject it if it doesn't sit well on the "buds". They can and do develop a craving for people food. Cats I've known would just about kill for a Dorito--not just 1 but the whole bag._

5 A dog will walk with you for as long as you can stand to walk. A cat wont hardly go a block. _If you want a walk, a dog will accommodate you because they're needy and you control the food; if they were brighter, they'd realize when you were tired but they don't. Cats reserve their energy for important things you and I don't do well--like mousing._


----------



## FarmboyBill

I got 1/2 doz of them


----------



## FarmboyBill

I dont have a dog. Dogs eat chickens.


----------



## starjj

FarmboyBill said:


> I dont have a dog. Dogs eat chickens.


So you lump all dogs together like you do women? I have dogs. I have chickens. My dogs don't eat the chickens. My cat has stalked the chickens but the chickens don't take any bull and chase her off. Recently there is a beagle that has been getting under my fence (I believe he is a lost hunting dog since he has a orange collar) anyway he doesn't kill my chickens either.


----------



## Big country

So Katy have you never had a dog, or are you just taking another shot at bill?



katydidagain said:


> 1 Dogs love you. Cats put up with you, as long as you feed them. _Dogs only love you for what you can give them; cats are more discriminating about why they love you-believe me, they can totally adore the right one._
> 
> 2 Dogs are dependant you you. Cats are independant of you, and think they own you _Dogs suck the life out of you--they need a lot of attention. Cats are aware that 2 people in a relationship need boundaries; they set theirs and, if you don't like it, that's fine. They'll move on. And they won't be insulted if you decide they're not your cup of tea._
> 
> 3 Dogs have been known to find their owners grave and stay there, OR travel hundreds of miles to come home. How many cats u hear doing that? _Dogs are locked into routines; they can't think outside of the box. Cats are much smarter; they know if you want them, you'll come get them if they're lost. If not, someone better will take them in._
> 
> 4 a dog will eat what your eating nearly. A cat wont touch it usually. _A dog will eat really disgusting things (not saying what because it's really gross): things I sure wouldn't eat. Because they have no taste or sense, they wolf it all down then either toss it back up or have the trots for a few days. Will they remember something disagreed with their tummy? HA! A cat is intelligently picky. They will taste something but reject it if it doesn't sit well on the "buds". They can and do develop a craving for people food. Cats I've known would just about kill for a Dorito--not just 1 but the whole bag._
> 
> 5 A dog will walk with you for as long as you can stand to walk. A cat wont hardly go a block. _If you want a walk, a dog will accommodate you because they're needy and you control the food; if they were brighter, they'd realize when you were tired but they don't. Cats reserve their energy for important things you and I don't do well--like mousing._


----------



## katydidagain

Big country said:


> So Katy have you never had a dog, or are you just taking another shot at bill?


Have had a dog. Supposedly cats make better companions according to to Sourdough; Bill disagreed. I merely pointed out that cats are company. Dogs are nice enough--live with 1 now who is more human than cat and more cat than dog. I meet more dogs than cats when landscaping and they're mostly nice. I've met quite a few and only 1 has been rude about inappropriate sniffing. Never met a cat that bold or that interested but what do I know?


----------



## Shygal

katydidagain said:


> _Dogs only love you for what you can give them; cats are more discriminating about why they love you-believe me, they can totally adore the right one._ I guess you haven't met the right dog either. Cats can adore people, so can dogs. I have seen dogs that have nothing, still adore the person that they are with.
> 
> _Dogs suck the life out of you--they need a lot of attention. Cats are aware that 2 people in a relationship need boundaries; they set theirs and, if you don't like it, that's fine. They'll move on. And they won't be insulted if you decide they're not your cup of tea._ You don't know dogs at all. Dogs give back more than they get
> 
> _Dogs are locked into routines; they can't think outside of the box. Cats are much smarter; they know if you want them, you'll come get them if they're lost. If not, someone better will take them in._ Ive heard plenty of stories of cats traveling hundreds of miles to get "home".
> 
> _A dog will eat really disgusting things (not saying what because it's really gross): things I sure wouldn't eat. Because they have no taste or sense, they wolf it all down then either toss it back up or have the trots for a few days. Will they remember something disagreed with their tummy? HA! A cat is intelligently picky. They will taste something but reject it if it doesn't sit well on the "buds". They can and do develop a craving for people food. Cats I've known would just about kill for a Dorito--not just 1 but the whole bag._
> Again you don't know dogs. And ever see a cat eat half a mouse, or mice brains or mice guts or bird guts?
> 
> _If you want a walk, a dog will accommodate you because they're needy and you control the food; if they were brighter, they'd realize when you were tired but they don't. Cats reserve their energy for important things you and I don't do well--like mousing._ A dog goes with you because he wants to be with you. I also have a cat that will go for a walk with me.


You really don't like love, do you


----------



## wyld thang

it's called KITTY ROCA

(teehee!)


----------



## Sourdough

katydidagain said:


> I've met quite a few and only 1 has been rude about inappropriate sniffing.



You have got to be......................"Something" Are you like 11 years old......?


----------



## FarmboyBill

I cant be takeing chances with takeing on dogs. I havnt had one for round 2yrs. Havnt had cause to miss it. Now that im old, I cant run and romp with a dog like I used to, and it near kills me when one finally dies. That had 1/2 to do with my not getting another dog after the chicken eater left. It liked to chase cars also, It was a Border Collie, and I think that somebody stopped and enticed it into their car and drove off with it. Good riddance.

Your last barb at me. How would I know if I liked love or not. I havnt felt it, OTHER than with Lady for over 30yrs. LOVE that is.


----------



## FarmboyBill

I forgot my kids. Specially my DD, But, like a loveing dog, Its love, but its an abstract kind of love.

jj Your mention of unins and dogs. hmmmmm. Nope, said I wouldnt go there.


----------



## fantasymaker

Laura said:


> Probably not. Do you like cats?


Most men like Cats but dont tell them and they will think its rabbit.


----------



## Laura

Relationships with your animals are like ones with humans. You get back what you put into them.


----------



## katydidagain

Shygal said:


> katydidagain said:
> 
> 
> 
> _Dogs only love you for what you can give them; cats are more discriminating about why they love you-believe me, they can totally adore the right one._ I guess you haven't met the right dog either. Cats can adore people, so can dogs. I have seen dogs that have nothing, still adore the person that they are with.
> 
> _Dogs suck the life out of you--they need a lot of attention. Cats are aware that 2 people in a relationship need boundaries; they set theirs and, if you don't like it, that's fine. They'll move on. And they won't be insulted if you decide they're not your cup of tea._ You don't know dogs at all. Dogs give back more than they get
> 
> _Dogs are locked into routines; they can't think outside of the box. Cats are much smarter; they know if you want them, you'll come get them if they're lost. If not, someone better will take them in._ Ive heard plenty of stories of cats traveling hundreds of miles to get "home".
> 
> _A dog will eat really disgusting things (not saying what because it's really gross): things I sure wouldn't eat. Because they have no taste or sense, they wolf it all down then either toss it back up or have the trots for a few days. Will they remember something disagreed with their tummy? HA! A cat is intelligently picky. They will taste something but reject it if it doesn't sit well on the "buds". They can and do develop a craving for people food. Cats I've known would just about kill for a Dorito--not just 1 but the whole bag._
> Again you don't know dogs. And ever see a cat eat half a mouse, or mice brains or mice guts or bird guts?
> 
> _If you want a walk, a dog will accommodate you because they're needy and you control the food; if they were brighter, they'd realize when you were tired but they don't. Cats reserve their energy for important things you and I don't do well--like mousing._ A dog goes with you because he wants to be with you. I also have a cat that will go for a walk with me.
> 
> You really don't like love, do you
> 
> 
> 
> I have a very ancient computer that I rebuilt so can't see your "distinctions" (I can see color or bold--try that, "honey".) No, I don't want animal love and think that's really sick as do most people. Try again. But know I don't care what you think of me...
Click to expand...


----------



## Laura

fantasymaker said:


> Most men like Cats but dont tell them and they will think its rabbit.


I prefer my Dad's response, "Meat's meat." Way more calm than when he ate peas and liked them thinking they were beans.


----------



## Shygal

FarmboyBill said:


> Your last barb at me. How would I know if I liked love or not. I havnt felt it, OTHER than with Lady for over 30yrs. LOVE that is.


Is your name Katy now? Sorry but my posting life doesn't revolve around you and not everything is about you


----------



## Shygal

katydidagain said:


> I have a very ancient computer that I rebuilt so can't see your "distinctions" (I can see color or bold--try that, "honey".) No, I don't want animal love and think that's really sick as do most people. Try again. But know I don't care what you think of me...


Sorry dear but I don't believe a word of that since you yourself posted YOUR responses in italics 

As for animal love, if you want to take it in that manner go ahead. Most regular people know what I mean.


----------



## Laura

Wow, this thread has gone to the dogs!

SIT! STAY! WAG!

Emotional Castration is when a woman denies a man's truth. It make him feel weak, useless and awful. She usually is unaware she does this.

How does this affect their relationship? 

How can she be made aware she does this and how can she CHANGE what she does that causes Emotional Castration?

We can castrate our dog, it won't keep him from killing chickens or chasing cars.

We can castrate our cat, it won't keep him from crapping in our garden.

We can castrate our bull, it won't keep him from knocking down fences.

Of what benefit do women get from castrating their men?*


----------



## Guest

the "why men lie" thread: suppose I started a thread called "why women cheat on their husbands" Obviously some do. And equally obvious, some don't. But suppose that every time somebody says "I never cheated on my husband" I bring the subject back around to cheating wives. The women who never did and never wanted to would be trivialized and mocked, while the original poster(in this hypothetical, me) and his buddy or 2 would be able to morally crow about our supposed superiority while at the same time struggling mightily to hold back reality. 

What a waste of time. Of course, if I hated all women, and had nothing better to do with my time, I suppose it would make sense.


----------



## Laura

I'm sorry you believe you're hypothetical, but it makes sense for you.

I don't see anywhere that *I* mock men. (except Bill) I believe it's a valid, but touchy subject. It's certainly a hot button for many, both men and women. The goal is sharing understanding and knowledge and hopefully, for people to walk away with some insights in how their own behavior habits contribute to their relationship problems, perhaps bring some healing. 

I'm not mocking women, either. I'm trying to teach the difference in how male and female brains process feelings and how most men say it. I am calling women to get their emotions under control so they don't emasculate their men and destroy their relationships.

Oh, and I love men. Not all of them, there are very few I dislike.


----------



## Guest

Of course. Thank you. Your response was so predictable that I took bets on it. Sadly, everybody else knew the same as I did and nobody would take my bet.

How cutesy and funny would it be if I brought up giving women a mastectomy to straighten them out?? 
You ain't teaching anything but hate either.


----------



## Shygal

Laura said:


> I'm not mocking women, either. I'm trying to teach the difference in how male and female brains process feelings and how most men say it. I am calling women to get their emotions under control so they don't emasculate their men and destroy their relationships.
> 
> Oh, and I love men. Not all of them, there are very few I dislike.


Laura what qualifications do you have to teach how male and female brains process feelings? Most researchers don't know that yet. Most women DONT emasculate their men, they know how to talk to men , men are human beings. They aren't that complicated to talk to, you make it sound like some kind of scientific project


----------



## Laura

Shygal said:


> Laura what qualifications do you have to teach how male and female brains process feelings? Most researchers don't know that yet. Most women DONT emasculate their men, they know how to talk to men , men are human beings. They aren't that complicated to talk to, you make it sound like some kind of scientific project


Most women in good, solid HEALTHY long-term relationships don't emotionally castrate their men.

Most women who can't get one or keep one or claim there are no good ones or have bad relationships do.


Now if you want to continue believing men and women's brains are the same and deal and express feelings the same way, then go for it. You will continue to be frustrated and angry at them for not being one of your girlfriends.


----------



## Shygal

Laura said:


> Now if you want to continue believing men and women's brains are the same and deal and express feelings the same way, then go for it. You will continue to be frustrated and angry at them for not being one of your girlfriends.


Uh.....what? 

I dont want a man to be one of my girlfriends, neither do I want him to ACT like one. 
Again, what are your qualifications for teaching us? Are you a counselor? Psychiatrist? Psychologist?
I said men aren't that complicated to talk to, as you seem to be saying they are. Never said we deal with or express feelings the same way. They are human beings, if you treat them as humans you get a good response. 

Id like to know where you got that I am frustrated and angry at men, I think you have me confused with Katy. :stars:


----------



## Laura Zone 5

zong said:


> the "why men lie" thread: suppose I started a thread called "why women cheat on their husbands" *Obviously some do. And equally obvious, some don't.* But suppose that every time somebody says "I never cheated on my husband" I bring the subject back around to cheating wives. The women who never did and never wanted to would be trivialized and mocked, while the original poster(in this hypothetical, me) and his buddy or 2 would be able to morally crow about our supposed superiority while at the same time struggling mightily to hold back reality.
> 
> What a waste of time. Of course, if I hated all women, and had nothing better to do with my time, I suppose it would make sense.


When I worked at my favorite restaurant, we had a table (about 8 sometimes 10) that would come in about 4 x a year. All men, all from New York.
NONE, I mean not one of the other servers wanted to wait on them.
"They were too rude" "They don't even acknowledge me" "They are demanding"....etc.

My comment: Give 'em to me. I love men, they are my favorite flavor.

Those men were 'New York'. 
They were having an informal business meeting after their day of "business meetings"
If they wanted the special they would ask.
Keep pouring wine till he waves his hand over the glass.
Make sure they have plenty of water.
DO NOT touch the plate until the fork is tines side down on the plate.
If they are in the way of me clearing a plate, I put my hand on the shoulder I am coming over, and they move.....without interrupting their conversation.

Sorry, these guys were a PIECE of cake, and they drank multiple 65.00 bottles of wine, and they tipped 30%.
I didn't see them as rude.......they just live a different lifestyle in NY than they do in the Mid West.

I don't think all men cheat on their wives, or manipulate and lie.
I don't think all women cheat on the husbands or manipulate and lie.

But given the choice between the two for a life long friendship?
I'd chose the man, ever single time.


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## whiskeylivewire

I hate that term, "emasculated". Soon to be ex said I did that to him, I "emasculated" him. No, he emasculated HIMSELF for lying, getting caught and then not being able to take the heat of the fire. I'm not talking little lies either. 


I love men. I have a lot more male friends than girl friends. They are normally to the point, very little drama and they are fun to be around. 

I don't like liars of any kind, man or woman.


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## City Bound

Laura Zone 5 said:


> When I worked at my favorite restaurant, we had a table (about 8 sometimes 10) that would come in about 4 x a year. All men, all from New York.
> NONE, I mean not one of the other servers wanted to wait on them.
> "They were too rude" "They don't even acknowledge me" "They are demanding"....etc.
> 
> My comment: Give 'em to me. I love men, they are my favorite flavor.
> 
> Those men were 'New York'.
> They were having an informal business meeting after their day of "business meetings"
> If they wanted the special they would ask.
> Keep pouring wine till he waves his hand over the glass.
> Make sure they have plenty of water.
> DO NOT touch the plate until the fork is tines side down on the plate.
> If they are in the way of me clearing a plate, I put my hand on the shoulder I am coming over, and they move.....without interrupting their conversation.
> 
> Sorry, these guys were a PIECE of cake, and they drank multiple 65.00 bottles of wine, and they tipped 30%.
> I didn't see them as rude.......they just live a different lifestyle in NY than they do in the Mid West.
> 
> I don't think all men cheat on their wives, or manipulate and lie.
> I don't think all women cheat on the husbands or manipulate and lie.
> 
> But given the choice between the two for a life long friendship?
> I'd chose the man, ever single time.


in NYC you get pushed around a lot and you push others. You have to be a little agressive or the pace of life will just trample over you and leave you in the past.

sounds like you did a good job waiting the table. 

30% is a lot of money.


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## Laura Zone 5

City Bound said:


> in NYC you get pushed around a lot and you push others. You have to be a little agressive or the pace of life will just trample over you and leave you in the past.
> 
> sounds like you did a good job waiting the table.
> 
> 30% is a lot of money.


Yep
Tip averaged 150.00 for 2.5 hours of my time.....and they were 'easy' to take care of!! All the other servers KNEW how much I was making off that table....and they still would not take it. I usually (if we were not slammed busy) didn't take another table that night.....didn't need too.


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## Laura

Shygal said:


> Uh.....what?
> 
> I dont want a man to be one of my girlfriends, neither do I want him to ACT like one.
> Again, what are your qualifications for teaching us? Are you a counselor? Psychiatrist? Psychologist?
> I said men aren't that complicated to talk to, as you seem to be saying they are. Never said we deal with or express feelings the same way. They are human beings, if you treat them as humans you get a good response.
> 
> Id like to know where you got that I am frustrated and angry at men, I think you have me confused with Katy. :stars:


I'm a Circus Psychic.


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## Laura

Hunted down and having shoes thrown at me, let me gather them up into my shoe trophy pile.



> I'm confused. What did you do with Laura? Lol. Yesterday, it was happiness can only be found by being subservient to men and today this. Hmmm...this reminds me of a 70s movie....(glances over at Elk)
> .......For some reason, I don't think that allowing and encouraging partners to manipulate and lie is on the top of the relationship 101 manual.





> Your soapbox is tiresome, but then again just like the rest of us here you too are still single. IMO you've done nothing but insult men and tell women to be a doormat. Until I see your love story in the headlines, I will take you with a grain of salt. Women "yes" need to eat there feelings at times "WE ALL KNOW THIS", but there is a fine balance and if men wanted someone just like them, maybe they should look for a man instead of a WOMAN.......Raven this is no longer a forum where you can post anything that relates to feelings. So please keep your feelings to yourself If there is any opinion you may feel indifferant about, you will be ridiculed and then told that your woman feelings are unwarranted and you are the problem for all the worlds woes.


Earlier in this thread fouler called me, I believe a ******** and having a large penis. (no one called her out)

So which conceptualization is correct? Am I subservient mouse or a ******** in need of emasculation? Neither. Reading and interpreting everything from your own emotionl baggage and spewing forth negativity does not allow growth, understanding or intimacy with yourself or with others. 

Step away from knee-jerk emotionalism, going medium chill and allowing the space for a man to express his truth is not being subservient. Choosing to to trust your partner and being a positive influence on him for the sake of deeper relationship is not lying and manipulating.

It's fine to not agree with the concepts or not understand them, but implementing shrew attacks and throwing things further proves the points I made.

Yes, we're all single here. I choose not have a man in my home or in my bed at this time. Those are my boundaries. It does not mean I don't have good relationships.

When I became single in 2010 I hadn't been out here in decades. Things are far different. Up at the Bar & Grill I finally had to ask the bouncers, "Who neutered all the men?" They weren't taken aback by the question.


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## WhyNot

Guess I missed this thread. Sort of glad I did. All I have to say is, Laura, you and I are a lot alike. I think we probably have had some similar experiences in life...at the very least we seem to have gotten out of it some of the same things.

I never agree with anyone 100%...lol it's just my nature...I'm too Libra to do otherwise. But it is nice to see that some of the things I have come to, others have as well...there are several on this forum, men and women...whether or not they chime in.

But you knew that.


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## lurnin2farm

I didnt have to read through the thread to get a feel for where it was going. And this is why I am single. Women my age are too angry because they been burned in the past. Try and start a new relationship with someone with all that baggage. On the opposite side of the spectrum I have dated women 1/2 my age and although we were happy (Without all the baggage) Society in the US frowns on that unless your a rich celebrity. 

I'm 48 now but when I was 40-45 I had a couple GF that were 20-26. We had a lot of fun and it wasnt just about sex. It was just refreshing to have a normal relationship without all the EX baggage. 

I've been married twice and honestly I never speak or even think about the ex's. I do get it, you were lied to, cheated on and all men suck now. However, IMO, lifes to short to stop loving like you never been hurt. Few women will ever get on with their lives in a normal manner because of the past. Yes the truth may hurt but get over it or be destined to live alone. 

This isnt directed at anyone on here just older women in General.


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## FarmboyBill

That goes for men also L2F


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## wyld thang

was gonna write a bunch but I'll just pm Laura haha

I have to say it but she's exactly right. just piping up ha.


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## Fowler

Laura said:


> Hunted down and having shoes thrown at me, let me gather them up into my shoe trophy pile.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Earlier in this thread fouler called me, I believe a ******** and having a large penis. (no one called her out)
> 
> So which conceptualization is correct? Am I subservient mouse or a ******** in need of emasculation? Neither. Reading and interpreting everything from your own emotionl baggage and spewing forth negativity does not allow growth, understanding or intimacy with yourself or with others.
> 
> Step away from knee-jerk emotionalism, going medium chill and allowing the space for a man to express his truth is not being subservient. Choosing to to trust your partner and being a positive influence on him for the sake of deeper relationship is not lying and manipulating.
> 
> It's fine to not agree with the concepts or not understand them, but implementing shrew attacks and throwing things further proves the points I made.
> 
> Yes, we're all single here. I choose not have a man in my home or in my bed at this time. Those are my boundaries. It does not mean I don't have good relationships.
> 
> When I became single in 2010 I hadn't been out here in decades. Things are far different. Up at the Bar & Grill I finally had to ask the bouncers, "Who neutered all the men?" They weren't taken aback by the question.


Yaaaaaawn.......:yawn:


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## AmericanStand

tambo said:


> You are a piece of work YH. You wouldn't be mad if your wife came home and told you she was cheating after all mad is an emotion? You wouldn't be upset if it changed your whole world and turned it upside down? I guess you would say OK DEAR thanks for being honest with me?


 The only way it would turn your world upside down is if you choose to turn your world over. 
Since it’s your choice why be mad at him ?


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## AmericanStand

Oops another Zombie thread


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## tambo

AmericanStand said:


> The only way it would turn your world upside down is if you choose to turn your world over.
> Since it’s your choice why be mad at him ?


If I had to uproot my life because my husband cheated, I'm going to be mad at him. It would turn my world upside down.
ETA: It wouldn't now because I own my place. If I ever did meet someone and decide to marry, if a problem arises we couldn't work through, they are the ones to be leaving. I had to leave with my first marriage and I swore that would never happen again


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## Nsoitgoes

LOL, Tambo. When my grand daughter told me that she was thinking of moving in with her boyfriend I told her "Don't do it. If you are going to live together, let HIM move in with YOU. That way, if things go south, he is the one outside the door looking for a place to put his stuff."


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## FarmboyBill

Dang good advice there.


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## haypoint

Lots of thoughts in this old long thread.
What's one person's self-protection is another's baggage. You were in a relationship without a thought it would ever end, you gave it your all and enjoyed the fullness of it. But, there are storms we cannot weather. So, we stack up our shields, protection from the hurt. The result is never giving and receiving all there is in a relationship. Like keeping a bag packed next to the front door, a monument to every past heartbreak and an assurance that you'll never love that way again. Doesn't much matter if it is your stuff packed or your mate's. It is a clear sign that you don't expect this thing to last. Then wonder why a "you can love me and I can love you, but I'll never stop looking for a sign that you may break my heart" relationship leaves both unfulfilled?
Face it. A roll in the hay isn't the gift from heaven it was when you were 30 years and 30 pounds younger. Some have trouble creating a new reason someone might want to share their life with you. Keeping that drawer marked "every rotten thing in my life" open and ready to prosecute every mate that makes a clumsy attempt to build a life with you, wears thin.


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## FarmboyBill

That about says it.


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## Evons hubby

AmericanStand said:


> Oops another Zombie thread


That's a good thing. I rather enjoyed rereading this thread.


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## AmericanStand

tambo said:


> If I had to uproot my life because my husband cheated, I'm going to be mad at him. It would turn my world upside down.
> ETA: It wouldn't now because I own my place. If I ever did meet someone and decide to marry, if a problem arises we couldn't work through, they are the ones to be leaving. I had to leave with my first marriage and I swore that would never happen again


Lol if a man said I raped her because her sexy outfit made me you would scream bull at the top of your lungs !
You don’t have to uproot your life because he cheated you just choose to. 
That is far more a choice than a man’s primal urges !


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## FarmboyBill

Why men lie
(Tell me, she asks, does this dress make me look fat?)


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## FarmboyBill

He gets conditioned to lie by usually saying (Oh No Dear). If he told the truth, he could say (No fatter than you were before you put it on). NOW< Wheres that gonna get him??


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## hiddensprings

FarmboyBill said:


> Why men lie
> (Tell me, she asks, does this dress make me look fat?)





FarmboyBill said:


> He gets conditioned to lie by usually saying (Oh No Dear). If he told the truth, he could say (No fatter than you were before you put it on). NOW< Wheres that gonna get him??


So this made me laugh this morning..... Hubby and I have been married a long time and we're learned NOT to ask a question that we don't want an honest answer back. I don't ask if something makes me look fat, and he doesn't ask if his hair line is moving further back. Match made in Heaven. Thanks for the giggle!


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## tambo

AmericanStand said:


> Lol if a man said I raped her because her sexy outfit made me you would scream bull at the top of your lungs !
> You don’t have to uproot your life because he cheated you just choose to.
> That is far more a choice than a man’s primal urges !


I'm not sure how this got to rape. My first husband cheated on me. I didn't have a choice in the matter. I had to move because we lived on land that belonged to his family. So yeah, it did uproot my life and believe me it wasn't by my choosing.


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## AmericanStand

Tambo Why did you have to move ?


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## tambo

AmericanStand said:


> Tambo Why did you have to move ?


Because it was his family's house and he didn't want me there any more.


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## AmericanStand

If he had divorced first and then moved on to the woman in question wouldn’t you still have to had moved?
So it really wasn’t cheating that uprooted your life was it ? it was his and you moving on.


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## tambo

AmericanStand said:


> If he had divorced first and then moved on to the woman in question wouldn’t you still have to had moved?
> So it really wasn’t cheating that uprooted your life was it ? it was his and you moving on.


Yeah his cheating uprooted my life. You must be a cheater trying to justify your actions.


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## AmericanStand

Lol or more likely you simply want to blame others. 
It would seem for some reason he wanted to be free of you. 
I understand how much that must’ve hurt. 
I don’t know what happened to cause that and I’m not going to assign blame for that. 
But that was the cause of your separation , divorce and then the following changes that upset your life so much. 
The cheating was simply A symptom of the deteriorating overall relationship. 
It probably means he didn’t want to deal with your emotions while he figured out how to MoveOn


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## Oxankle

13 pages dealing with integrity--I'm surprised. There is the "white lie", harmless and intended to avoid conflict and/or spare the listener's feelings and the direct dishonesty. We should all have learned the difference by the time we were seven years old. Only our reactions to those are personal and individual. 

Hi, Ardie---long time no see.


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## tambo

AmericanStand said:


> Lol or more likely you simply want to blame others.
> It would seem for some reason he wanted to be free of you.
> I understand how much that must’ve hurt.
> I don’t know what happened to cause that and I’m not going to assign blame for that.
> But that was the cause of your separation , divorce and then the following changes that upset your life so much.
> The cheating was simply A symptom of the deteriorating overall relationship.
> It probably means he didn’t want to deal with your emotions while he figured out how to MoveOn


Thank you so much! I'm glad you have taken such an interest and feel the need to be right in something that happened 30 + years ago in someone you don't knows life. I have been paralyzed by this since then and now I can be free!!!! Thank you, thank you so much!! Barf!! A cheater is the only person that would take up for another cheater.


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## AmericanStand

Lol and you think you have a right to call names when someone disagrees with you ?
Believe it or not I’m actually trying to help. 
Perhaps the reason that you have been paralyzed by such a minor thing for 30 years is that you’re not looking at it right?
I honestly would like to help you move on with that life. 
I’m sure it would be painful to re-examine the situation but there are many caring folks here on this site that would be willing to help , if you are willing to discuss it.


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## FarmboyBill

AS, As one with painful memories myself, I can understand one NOT wanting to talk about it.


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## tambo

AmericanStand said:


> Lol and you think you have a right to call names when someone disagrees with you ?
> Believe it or not I’m actually trying to help.
> Perhaps the reason that you have been paralyzed by such a minor thing for 30 years is that you’re not looking at it right?
> I honestly would like to help you move on with that life.
> I’m sure it would be painful to re-examine the situation but there are many caring folks here on this site that would be willing to help , if you are willing to discuss it.


Ha ha ha that is so funny! I have one word for you, sarcasm! I'm perfectly happy with my life! I am thankful for that situation 30 yrs ago. It got me where I am today. If I ever see that woman again, I'm going to by her a coke. Find someone else to help. I don't need or want your help, thank you very much.


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## Lisa in WA

AmericanStand said:


> Lol and you think you have a right to call names when someone disagrees with you ?
> Believe it or not I’m actually trying to help.
> Perhaps the reason that you have been paralyzed by such a minor thing for 30 years is that you’re not looking at it right?
> I honestly would like to help you move on with that life.
> I’m sure it would be painful to re-examine the situation but there are many caring folks here on this site that would be willing to help , if you are willing to discuss it.


Why would she want anyone’s help? She’s moved on and simply posted about a painful time in her life. Why are you patronizing her and being such a jerk about it and harrassing her?


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## AmericanStand

tambo said:


> Thank you so much! I'm glad you have taken such an interest and feel the need to be right in something that happened 30 + years ago in someone you don't knows life. I have been paralyzed by this since then and now I can be free!!!! Thank you, thank you so much!! Barf!! A cheater is the only person that would take up for another cheater.


Oops I’m sorry I honestly didn’t recognize the sarcasm in the above quoted post. 
I honestly don’t feel like I am harassing her but as all the many post about harassment show that of course is in the eye of the beholder. 
I offered a heartfelt honest offer to help no hidden motives or agenda.


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## oneraddad

Lisa in WA said:


> Why would she want anyone’s help? She’s moved on and simply posted about a painful time in her life. Why are you patronizing her and being such a jerk about it and harrassing her?


Remember when you asked for pictures of his boat ?
Remember the 846 stray dogs he killed in one year ?
Remember that AS is a troll and don't know how to tell the truth.


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## AmericanStand

Lisa in WA said:


> Why would she want anyone’s help? She’s moved on and simply posted about a painful time in her life. Why are you patronizing her and being such a jerk about it and harrassing her?


As you might have noticed I tend to be very literal in my understanding of things and did not recognize the sarcasm in her post. 
I had no intent of harassing or patronizing her. 
However now that it is been made clear to me that her post was sarcastic it’s obvious that she was both harassing and patronizing me in that post.


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## AmericanStand

oneraddad said:


> Remember when you asked for pictures of his boat ?
> Remember the 846 stray dogs he killed in one year ?
> Remember that AS is a troll and don't know how to tell the truth.


 Really ?
She repeatedly says I must be a cheater for discussing logic and you make that reply ?interesting.


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## Clem

Dude, when somebody starts a reply with LOL, as you did in post 248, that's a pretty good sign they are not "actually trying to help".

A more believable statement would be LOL, I want to laugh(out loud) at whatever misfortunes you have suffered.

That's just a fact, not an attack.


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## oneraddad

AmericanStand said:


> Really ?
> She repeatedly says I must be a cheater for discussing logic and you make that reply ?interesting.


Really !!! I don't believe a word out of your mouth and think every post of yours is to troll


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## Bearfootfarm

Is this the "dark room"?


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## AmericanStand

Clem said:


> Dude, when somebody starts a reply with LOL, as you did in post 248, that's a pretty good sign they are not "actually trying to help".
> 
> A more believable statement would be LOL, I want to laugh(out loud) at whatever misfortunes you have suffered.
> 
> That's just a fact, not an attack.


 I meant that laugh at her statement that I must be a cheater because I defended a cheater. 
I neither defended a cheater nor am a cheater 
If you have followed my posts on the definition of cheating you will find I actually use a far tougher definition of cheating than most here. 
I was appalled that her life would have been paralyzed by her ex leaving her. 
I really did want to help 
I simply didn’t recognize I was being played. 

Why is it so hard to believe I can care for those here with whom I don’t agree ?
Truth is I’ve probably disagreed with most people here on one subject or another at some point but that hasn’t stopped me from liking almost every one here.


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## Clem

It's because you drug out a 5 year old thread, you know enough to know that I know you had to go looking for it, out of boredom....wassah, nobody to antagonize in new threads? Your history proves, without a doubt, that you'll say anything to get a rise out of people. Besides the 35 different lifetime careers you've talked about, driving 60 million miles, killing enough dogs, and laying them nose to vent down the highway(2/3 of a mile of dead dogs, I seem to remember you bragging about), now you're a singles counselor? You might fool some of the people some of the time, but you ain't fooling me none of the time.


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## AmericanStand

You are right I was bored and reading old threads. 
Isn’t that why they are there ?

That might also explain why I’ve done so many things. 
Some people bore easily and do seek out new and exciting things. 
Some of us do more than one thing at a time. 
Like raising sheep for 20 years while having other careers. 
I really don’t think that so odd in fact I would bet most homesteaders do their homesteading while pursuing other careers. 
I have been blessed with a solid home base to pursue my interests from. 
I’ve been blessed with jobs that adapted to my interests. 
Sorry I’m not average enough for you.


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## Clem

Sure. It's always possible that there are some folks who are so oblique they don't realize that they are intentionally trying to torment someone for just for the heck of it, and that you're one of them. I can see that. And that you can't even see that you're not even bothering her. 

Can you see that you're stepping way out of your league? I bet a lot of other people can.


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