# Why does Arizona surprise anyone



## vickiesmom (Feb 25, 2005)

Everyone is up in arms about Arizona's racist steps, but African/Americans told the world about it as early as 1996 when MLK's birthday was being observed by almost every state except Arizona and New Hampshire. Now, because it is Mexicans, there is a big roar...give me a break.


----------



## John Carter (Oct 6, 2004)

Im not sure of your point.............Could you explain better as to the comment?
WOuld it help if I say Please............

One is a law to stop a foreign invasion of a sovereign state because the feds aren't helping and in fact have aided and abetted the situation.
The other was a sovereign state disregarding a national holiday.........which frankly many people DO disagree with..........so I cant understand the linkage.


----------



## Callieslamb (Feb 27, 2007)

MLK's birthday has nothing to do with folks breaking the law. Fed govt doesn't enforce the immigration laws, but states are paying out the ying yang supporting the illegals.....Hurray for AZ for making a stand. Those that don't agree have a method to change the law (or they can move to California).


----------



## vickiesmom (Feb 25, 2005)

Racism is racism no matter what flag you fly it under.


----------



## farmmom (Jan 4, 2009)

vickiesmom said:


> Racism is racism no matter what flag you fly it under.


Is it racism to uphold the law and stop "educational" activities that promote racism?


----------



## Tricky Grama (Oct 7, 2006)

vickiesmom said:


> Racism is racism no matter what flag you fly it under.


What if the illegals were white europeans? Like maybe they flew to Mexico, walked across the border? W/WMDs? 
Do you actually think that would be OK w/all these "racists"?


This has been attributed to Charlie Daniels-

"...I don't blame anybody in the world for wanting to come to the 
United States of America , as it is a truly wonderful place. 

But when the first thing you do when you set foot on American soil is illegal it is flat out wrong and I don't care how many lala land left heads come out of the woodwork and start trying 
to give me sensitivity lessons. 

I don't need sensitivity lessons, in fact I don't have any-thing against Mexicans! I just have something against criminals and anybody who comes into this country illegally is a criminal 
and if you don't believe it try coming into America from a foreign country without a passport and see how far you get. What disturbs me about the demonstrations is that it's tanta-mount to saying, "I am going to come into your country even if it means breaking your laws and there's nothing you can do about it." 

It's an "in your face" action and speaking just for me, I don't like it one little bit and if there were a half dozen pairs of gonads in Washington bigger than English peas it wouldn't be happening."


----------



## tyusclan (Jan 1, 2005)

vickiesmom said:


> Racism is racism no matter what flag you fly it under.


Please explain how the law is racist.

If you are pulled over by the police, do they not ask for your driver's license and registration? They then check that license for warrants and to make sure it's not suspended. They verify that you are who you say you are.

The law SPECIFICALLY prohibits profiling. They can only check for illegal status if they become suspicious AFTER stopping them for some other infraction.

The law is NOT racist and people saying it over and over again is not going to make it racist. Give it up already.


----------



## tinknal (May 21, 2004)

RACISM!!!!, screamed loudly and shrilly is the word liberals shout when they oppose something but can't explain why.


----------



## DAVID In Wisconsin (Dec 3, 2002)

Enforcing needed laws and stopping illegal criminals from preying on the american taxpayer and using our tax dollars for their many welfare handouts isn't racism, it's common sense.


----------



## Tricky Grama (Oct 7, 2006)

I want to say I have not tried to find out if this is really what the senator has written, but I got it from a H.S. friend who lives in AZ. (my friend used to be a Dem, by the way)


I'm Arizona State Senator Sylvia Allen. I want to explain SB 1070 which I voted for and was just signed by Governor Jan Brewer.

Rancher Rob Krantz was murdered by the drug cartel on his ranch a month ago. I participated in a senate hearing two weeks ago on the border violence, here is just some of the highlights from those who testified.

The people who live within 60 to 80 miles of the Arizona/Mexico Border have for years been terrorized and have pleaded for help to stop the daily invasion of humans who cross their property .
One Rancher testified that 300 to 1200 people a DAY come across his ranch vandalizing his property, stealing his vehicles and property, cutting down his fences, and leaving trash. In the last two years he has found 17 dead bodies and two Koran bibles.

Another rancher testified that daily drugs are brought across his ranch in a military operation. A point man with a machine gun goes in front, 1/2 mile behind are the guards fully armed, 1/2 mile behind them are the drugs, behind the drugs 1/2 mile are more guards. These people are violent and they will kill anyone who gets in the way. This was not the only rancher we heard that day that talked about the drug trains.

One man told of two illegals who came upon his property , one shot in the back and the other in the arm by the drug runners who had forced them to carry the drugs and then shot them. Daily they listen to gun fire during the night it is not safe to leave his family alone on the ranch and they can't leave the ranch for fear of nothing being left when they come back.

The border patrol is not on the border. They have set up 60 miles away with check points that do nothing to stop the invasion. They are not allowed to use force in stopping anyone who is entering. They run around chasing them, if they get their hands on them then they can take them back across the border.

Federal prisons have over 35% illegal's and 20% of Arizona prisons are filled with illegals. In the last few years 80% of our law enforcement that have been killed or wounded have been by an illegal.

The majority of people coming now are people we need to be worried about. The ranchers told us that they have seen a change in the people coming they are not just those who are looking for work and a better life.

The Federal Government has refused for years to do anything to help the border states . We have been over run and once they are here we have the burden of funding state services that they use. Education cost have been over a billion dollars. The healthcare cost billions of dollars. Our State is broke, $3.5 billion deficit and we have many serious decisions to make. One is that we do not have the money to care for any who are not here legally. It has to stop. 

The border can be secured. We have the technology we have the ability to stop this invasion. We must know who is coming and they must come in an organized manner legally so that we can assimilate them into our population and protect the sovereignty of our country. We are a nation of laws. We have a responsibility to protect our citizens and to protect the integrity of our country and the government which we live under.

What part of this do you libs NOT understand? Would you feel differently if you lived in AZ? Would you be among the 70%+ there who agree w/this law? A law, by the way, that is no different than our fed laws?


----------



## MoonRiver (Sep 2, 2007)

vickiesmom said:


> Racism is racism no matter what flag you fly it under.


Racism is to treat a certain group differently because of their race. Isn't that what you are suggesting? That because it is primarily Hispanics coming across our southern border illegally, that the state of Arizona cannot take any legal action against them? It would seem, that the only racist statement is yours as you profess that this group must receive preferential treatment.


----------



## poppy (Feb 21, 2008)

vickiesmom said:


> Racism is racism no matter what flag you fly it under.


You can drop the racism carp. You liberals have perverted the meaning of the word to the point that it means nothing any more. It frankly is none of your business whether Arizona chooses to observe MLK's birthday or not or whether or not they choose to enforce their laws, unless you live there.


----------



## cindy71 (Jul 7, 2008)

One thing that get me is many of the people of Mexico say that the land was stolen from them. I have heard some of them say they want the southwest back. If for some reason we did give it back we take all of the resourses with us leaving nothing behind. The land100 miles on either side of the border is the same but what the people have to offer on each side is what is different. If they can't make things work there now what make them think that have more land to add to the country is going to help. Juat a thought CINDY


----------



## lilmizlayla (Aug 28, 2008)

poppy said:


> You can drop the racism carp. You liberals have perverted the meaning of the word to the point that it means nothing any more. It frankly is none of your business whether Arizona chooses to observe MLK's birthday or not or whether or not they choose to enforce their laws, unless you live there.


They dont observe MLKs birthday??? 


LOLOLOL..None of her business unless she lives there? 

It is our business..because when their economy is struggling because they chased out the hispanics....they will have their hand out to Washington.


----------



## 7thswan (Nov 18, 2008)

Racism? Stop minimizing/useing the word, it's getting disgusting.


----------



## copperkid3 (Mar 18, 2005)

Excellent responses .....the *ONLY* one that couldn't defend their racist 'point-of-view' 
was the OP. Not surprised.....when held up to the light of day....it either shrivels up and 
dies or it scurries for the dark spots to hide......only to come out again later, when it thinks 
it's safe and spread it's poison to other unsuspecting victims. Sorry, won't find any here!!!:thumb:


----------



## lilmizlayla (Aug 28, 2008)

vickiesmom said:


> Everyone is up in arms about Arizona's racist steps, but African/Americans told the world about it as early as 1996 when MLK's birthday was being observed by almost every state except Arizona and New Hampshire. Now, because it is Mexicans, there is a big roar...give me a break.


Money. that is what it all comes down to. It isnt about race.well, not anymore. The first bill gave the Popo the ability to stop anybody on the streets and inquire what the heck you are doing. PHFFT. They changed it to now where you have to have another reason to be questioned. Besides, Illegal mexicans contribute to the economy. celebrating MLK day doesnt. 

And as I have already mentioned in a previous post...many of the mexican americans I have spoken to...all of them actually...are against ILLEGALs being here. One lived at the border in texas as a child. He said it was unbelievable how much crime. His family moved to the panhandle to get away from it. and he is 5th generation mexican. The others are still only first generation mexicans and they say the same thing "we dont want you here..go home or come here legally"


Besides, nobody says you cannot celebrate it..the state just isnt going to have a ticker parade in the middle of the town because of it.


----------



## Wolf mom (Mar 8, 2005)

lilmizlayla said:


> Besides, *Illegal mexicans contribute to the economy.*


:hysterical::rotfl::smiley-laughing013:

That's the best spin I've heard in days!!!!


----------



## Wags (Jun 2, 2002)

lilmizlayla said:


> Illegal mexicans contribute to the economy.


I've already posted the links to studies that prove just how wrong this statement is. The truth is they drain far more resources than they input into our country.


----------



## Wags (Jun 2, 2002)

vickiesmom said:


> Everyone is up in arms about Arizona's racist steps, but African/Americans told the world about it as early as 1996 when MLK's birthday was being observed by almost every state except Arizona and New Hampshire. Now, because it is Mexicans, there is a big roar...give me a break.



Oh my gosh they don't do daylight savings time either :flame: Does that make them "timest"?


----------



## reluctantpatriot (Mar 9, 2003)

If we really wanted to stop illegal immigration at the governmental level, we have the technology to do so. Our government doesn't have the courage to use it.

Instead, the citizens have to deal with the lack of action. When it comes to having my family threatened by a criminal, I don't care what color they are. A threat is a threat.

It is better that legal means are used to deal with the issue rather than inaction that results in people using their own sense of justice to deal with problems.


----------



## Txsteader (Aug 22, 2005)

Are you saying that if these illegals were predominantly white that we'd allow _them_ to break the law, burden our system to the point of collapse and murder our citizens?


----------



## Jenni979 (Jan 27, 2010)

Hmmm... I have a friend that lived in Scottsdale, AZ and he was deported back to Canada (He was there illegally, and he knew it)... And he is the whitest dude that you have EVER seen...

So, I guess AZ is racist against caucasians, too, right? Same logic...


----------



## Nevada (Sep 9, 2004)

vickiesmom said:


> Racism is racism no matter what flag you fly it under.


Sure, it's racism. After all there are illegal aliens from all over the world. This is aimed at Hispanics in particular.

But the bigger issue is constitutionality. The manner in which this law is to be enforced will undoubtedly be struck-down by the courts as unconstitutional, yet notice who is lining-up behind these unconstitutional practices -- conservatives.

You see, conservatives are the first to support abridging the constitution for expediency, yet squawk the loudest when they think it falls on them. They reap what the sow.


----------



## Ambereyes (Sep 6, 2004)

So you are saying that other illegals are not deported? Maybe true since obama's relative is here illegally and hasn't been deported. 

Since this law mirrors federal law is the federal law unconstitutional? No where in the law does it say only check Mexicans.

As a person of Mexican descent living in a border state I can tell you most of us want the laws upheld, it is getting dangerous here.. It is time for the illegals to go home and come in the right way. I am personally disgusted by the way illegals are used as nearly slave labor in this country and abused by the coyotes and drug runners..


----------



## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

> Sure, it's racism. After all there are illegal aliens from all over the world. This is aimed at Hispanics in particular


It's aimed at *ALL* illegals
There just happens to be a dirth of Hispanics in Arizona

Sometimes your arguments are so weak it's obvious you can't really believe them yourself


----------



## Nevada (Sep 9, 2004)

Ambereyes said:


> So you are saying that other illegals are not deported? Maybe true since obama's relative is here illegally and hasn't been deported.
> 
> Since this law mirrors federal law is the federal law unconstitutional? No where in the law does it say only check Mexicans.
> 
> As a person of Mexican descent living in a border state I can tell you most of us want the laws upheld, it is getting dangerous here.. It is time for the illegals to go home and come in the right way. I am personally disgusted by the way illegals are used as nearly slave labor in this country and abused by the coyotes and drug runners..


What I'm saying is that Arizona's "papers please" law is not only unconstitutional, but also alarmingly reminiscent of Nazi Germany. Yet conservatives don't mind as long as it's expedient. That's fine. Support what you want, but don't come telling me that you're the party of constitutionality. No group of people in our history have been quicker to throw-out the constitution for expediency that modern-day conservatives.

The strange thing is that conservatives will all denounce this bill after it's struck-down as unconstitutional by the courts. I can hear what conservatives will say already; "Oh no, not me. I was always against Arizona's "papers please" law. I don't know what you're talking about." I'm just waiting to see which republicans you decide to throw under a bus over this.


----------



## Nevada (Sep 9, 2004)

Bearfootfarm said:


> It's aimed at *ALL* illegals
> There just happens to be a dirth of Hispanics in Arizona
> 
> Sometimes your arguments are so weak it's obvious you can't really believe them yourself


Okay, you know that my European girlfriend used to be undocumented, and we live in the desert southwest. Show me where they do this to people who look European.

No, you wouldn't like that. Too many conservatives of European descent.


----------



## WindowOrMirror (Jan 10, 2005)

So, what you're saying is, that if someone breaks into your home that it is incumbent on you to provide them a meal, a place to sleep, and safety rather than to ask them to leave (perhaps even call the police, or worse)?

What part of the word ILLEGAL don't people understand!? We are calling Arizona 'racist' because they desire to uphold a law?

Folks, I don't care if the person that breaks into my home is purple with green spots; if they don't stop when I yell "freeze", I'm dropping 'em. _That has nothing to do with color, creed, background, or anything else_. Arizona's law is exactly the same thing. What shocks ME is that the other 56 states don't have the stones to pass the same law!!!

R

P.S. Yes, I am fully aware there are 49 other states.


----------



## Jenni979 (Jan 27, 2010)

Nevada said:


> Okay, you know that my European girlfriend used to be undocumented, and we live in the desert southwest. Show me where they do this to people who look European.
> 
> No, you wouldn't like that. Too many conservatives of European descent.


I thought I just did... My CANADIAN, totally anglo-looking, friend was just deported BACK to Canada from Scottsdale.


----------



## tinknal (May 21, 2004)

Nevada said:


> Okay, you know that my European girlfriend used to be undocumented, and we live in the desert southwest. Show me where they do this to people who look European.
> 
> No, you wouldn't like that. Too many conservatives of European descent.


It's about allocation of resources, and attacking a real and dangerous problem. What is the crime rate among illegal Caucasians in AZ? How many are there? If you examine the citizenship of 100 Caucasians how many will be illegals? If you examine 100 Hispanics how many will be illegals?



How many homicides are committed each year by illegal Caucasians? Kidnappings? Drug arrests?


----------



## Nevada (Sep 9, 2004)

WindowOrMirror said:


> So, what you're saying is, that if someone breaks into your home that it is incumbent on you to provide them a meal, a place to sleep, and safety rather than to ask them to leave (perhaps even call the police, or worse)?


I thought that blatant strawman arguments were against the rules around here. 



WindowOrMirror said:


> What part of the word ILLEGAL don't people understand!? We are calling Arizona 'racist' because they desire to uphold a law?


No, they are racist because they target Hispanics, not illegals.

But you are shifting the argument away from constitutionality again. You do that because you know that the Arizona "papers please" law doesn't have a constitutional let to stand on. That's fine, just as long as everyone notices the lack of regard conservatives have for the constitution.


----------



## Txsteader (Aug 22, 2005)

Nevada said:


> Okay, you know that my European girlfriend used to be undocumented, and we live in the desert southwest. Show me where they do this to people who look European.
> 
> No, you wouldn't like that. Too many conservatives of European descent.


Are European illegal immigrants (I'm certain there are _some_) overwhelming our national health care system? Are European illegal immigrants kidnapping citizens, murdering citizens, smuggling drugs and trafficking humans? Are there enough European illegal immigrants to even be noticed????? Funny, the videos I've seen of the US/Mexico border show exclusively latin/hispanic people crossing illegally.


----------



## Nevada (Sep 9, 2004)

tinknal said:


> It's about allocation of resources, and attacking a real and dangerous problem. What is the crime rate among illegal Caucasians in AZ? How many are there? If you examine the citizenship of 100 Caucasians how many will be illegals? If you examine 100 Hispanics how many will be illegals?
> 
> How many homicides are committed each year by illegal Caucasians? Kidnappings? Drug arrests?


Oh I understand. You really don't need to explain it to me. You're willing to abridge the constitutional rights of Hispanics for expediency. It's really no more difficult than that. It's the conservative way.


----------



## Txsteader (Aug 22, 2005)

Nevada said:


> I thought that blatant strawman arguments were against the rules around here.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Sorry, but it's absolutely Constitutional for federal and state governments to protect their citizens and control our borders. Actually, they are charged with that responsibility.


----------



## Ambereyes (Sep 6, 2004)

Nevada said:


> What I'm saying is that Arizona's "papers please" law is not only unconstitutional, but also alarmingly reminiscent of Nazi Germany. Yet conservatives don't mind as long as it's expedient. That's fine. Support what you want, but don't come telling me that you're the party of constitutionality. No group of people in our history have been quicker to throw-out the constitution for expediency that modern-day conservatives.
> 
> The strange thing is that conservatives will all denounce this bill after it's struck-down as unconstitutional by the courts. I can hear what conservatives will say already; "Oh no, not me. I was always against Arizona's "papers please" law. I don't know what you're talking about." I'm just waiting to see which republicans you decide to throw under a bus over this.


As a Mexican I have been stopped for traffic infractions and had to produce ID, guess I should have screamed racism! Thing is if you are questioned by the police for something you have done expect to have to produce ID, it doesn't matter what color you are.. 

All that rhetoric about Nazi Germany is just plain silly, there is nothing remotely reminiscent of that in the law.. I just wish people would read the law before they start with the scare tactics.. Bottom line I am not in the least feeling profiled in this law.. and surprise neither is my family..


----------



## copperkid3 (Mar 18, 2005)

Nevada said:


> What I'm saying is that Arizona's "papers please" law is not only unconstitutional, but also alarmingly reminiscent of Nazi Germany. Yet conservatives don't mind as long as it's expedient. That's fine. Support what you want, but don't come telling me that you're the party of constitutionality.* No group of people in our history have been quicker to throw-out the constitution for expediency that modern-day conservatives.*
> 
> The strange thing is that conservatives will all denounce this bill after it's struck-down as unconstitutional by the courts. I can hear what conservatives will say already; "Oh no, not me. I was always against Arizona's "papers please" law. I don't know what you're talking about." I'm just waiting to see which republicans you decide to throw under a bus over this.


*******************************************************
You of course have thoroughly negated that group of people commonly known as 
so-called progressives, who seem to believe that the constitution is nothing more, than 
just a bunch of "nice suggestions" and have nothing better to do then trying to run this 
country into the ground. Things like proving that the *ONE* doesn't have to 
provide documentation to prove that he is a natural born citizen of the U.S., instead of 
a Kenyan, would be a big step in showing this, and other conservatives, that the 
'progressives' aren't the group that you are *REALLY *talking about.......ound::hysterical:

I'll go one step further.......just please someone, ANYONE......ask for the 'proper papers' from the POTUS?!!!


----------



## Nevada (Sep 9, 2004)

Ambereyes said:


> As a Mexican I have been stopped for traffic infractions and had to produce ID, guess I should have screamed racism! Thing is if you are questioned by the police for something you have done expect to have to produce ID, it doesn't matter what color you are..
> 
> All that rhetoric about Nazi Germany is just plain silly, there is nothing remotely reminiscent of that in the law.. I just wish people would read the law before they start with the scare tactics.. Bottom line I am not in the least feeling profiled in this law.. and surprise neither is my family..


Maybe you would feel differently if they had demanded a birth certificate, then taken you away in handcuffs because you didn't have it on you at the time.


----------



## Ambereyes (Sep 6, 2004)

Nevada said:


> Maybe you would feel differently if they had demanded a birth certificate, then taken you away in handcuffs because you didn't have it on you at the time.


You find me one instance of this happening and I might be upset.. More scare tactics? How about some facts, that would be much more constructive..


----------



## Tricky Grama (Oct 7, 2006)

tinknal said:


> racism!!!!, screamed loudly and shrilly is the word liberals shout when they oppose something but can't explain why.


potda.


----------



## Oggie (May 29, 2003)

One need only to look at the differences in law between Arizona and New Mexico to see the effects of a mass migration of mostly white, mostly older, mostly conservative people into Arizona.


----------



## Tricky Grama (Oct 7, 2006)

MoonRiver said:


> Racism is to treat a certain group differently because of their race. Isn't that what you are suggesting? That because it is primarily Hispanics coming across our southern border illegally, that the state of Arizona cannot take any legal action against them? It would seem, that the only racist statement is yours as you profess that this group must receive preferential treatment.


Exactly.

How about we propose a measure to ensure that all Asians are never stopped by the police for any reason whatsoever. This is b/c we incarcerated many -probalby wrongfully, I could add-during WWII. We need to make up for that atrocity. It would be so racist to stop them for speeding/no license plates/accidents/parking tickets, etc.


----------



## tinknal (May 21, 2004)

Nevada said:


> Oh I understand. You really don't need to explain it to me. You're willing to abridge the constitutional rights of Hispanics for expediency. It's really no more difficult than that. It's the conservative way.


Explain to me what rights are being abridged. 

You want to cherry pick the Constitution and then create nonsensical interpretations. 

The same measures, done at a secure border, are not unconstitutional, why are they unconstitutional within our borders?

Customs agents do this exact same thing millions of times a year at border checkpoints, ALL WITHIN THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA!


----------



## Tricky Grama (Oct 7, 2006)

Ambereyes said:


> So you are saying that other illegals are not deported? Maybe true since obama's relative is here illegally and hasn't been deported.
> 
> Since this law mirrors federal law is the federal law unconstitutional? No where in the law does it say only check Mexicans.
> 
> As a person of Mexican descent living in a border state I can tell you most of us want the laws upheld, it is getting dangerous here.. It is time for the illegals to go home and come in the right way. I am personally disgusted by the way illegals are used as nearly slave labor in this country and abused by the coyotes and drug runners..


Another POTDA.


----------



## Ambereyes (Sep 6, 2004)

What is it that makes some think that illegal is a race? LOL..


----------



## tinknal (May 21, 2004)

Tricky Grama said:


> potda.


I love getting the potda from Grama.:buds:


----------



## Nevada (Sep 9, 2004)

Ambereyes said:


> You find me one instance of this happening and I might be upset.. More scare tactics? How about some facts, that would be much more constructive..


Look at this clip. The relevant part starts about 1:20 into the clip.

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sSzxjd3B8Ik[/ame]


----------



## tinknal (May 21, 2004)

Nevada said:


> Look at this clip. The relevant part starts about 1:20 into the clip.
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sSzxjd3B8Ik


He was arrested by customs agents, not by the state of AZ.


----------



## Tricky Grama (Oct 7, 2006)

Nevada said:


> What I'm saying is that Arizona's "papers please" law is not only unconstitutional, but also alarmingly reminiscent of Nazi Germany. Yet conservatives don't mind as long as it's expedient. That's fine. Support what you want, but don't come telling me that you're the party of constitutionality. No group of people in our history have been quicker to throw-out the constitution for expediency that modern-day conservatives.
> 
> The strange thing is that conservatives will all denounce this bill after it's struck-down as unconstitutional by the courts. I can hear what conservatives will say already; "Oh no, not me. I was always against Arizona's "papers please" law. I don't know what you're talking about." I'm just waiting to see which republicans you decide to throw under a bus over this.


First of all, do you realize how horrendous it is to campare the law that mirrors federal law to Nazi Germany?

Please tell us what happened to LEGAL Jewish people there? Were they in the act of committing a crime? Uh...NO!
Were they asked to see their GREEN CARDS? Uh...NO!
Were they detained until ICE could come & ship them back to their home country? Uh...NO!

Do you know what happened??? The Jews were given free rides alright-and that is where your stupidbeyondstupid analogy ends. The Jews were given free rides to the gas chambers and MURDERED!

If AZ is lucky here, thousands of illegal people in their state might get free rides back to their homeland. I don't see that happening too often tho. Hopefully when ICE relaeses them, they'll enter-ILLEGALLY-into other states.

Where do you think it is unconstitutional to ask someone for their green card/passport? Do you know it is a fed law that if you are not a permanent resident you MUST carry your green card?

Sometimes, NV, you make NO sense.


----------



## Tricky Grama (Oct 7, 2006)

Nevada said:


> Okay, you know that my European girlfriend used to be undocumented, and we live in the desert southwest. Show me where they do this to people who look European.
> 
> No, you wouldn't like that. Too many conservatives of European descent.


You told us (in another thread) she had a passport.


----------



## Ambereyes (Sep 6, 2004)

Yup, as a commercial driver you can be asked for a lot of documentation. I would like to hear the other side of the story. Since ID theft is such a big thing around here, was his SS card not matching? A good portion of LEO's around here are Mexican descent and most can spot an illegal pretty easily. Still it is just half of the story.. Not something that worries me at all.


----------



## Tricky Grama (Oct 7, 2006)

Originally Posted by Nevada 
Maybe you would feel differently if they had demanded a birth certificate, then taken you away in handcuffs because you didn't have it on you at the time.



Ambereyes said:


> You find me one instance of this happening and I might be upset.. More scare tactics? How about some facts, that would be much more constructive..


Amber, the left is ALL about scare tactics!
Even our dopey POTUS said a g'pa & g'kids going for ice cream would be asked for id. BWahahaha! Well, now if the g'pa is robbing the ice cream store...
Plain & simple, the left doesn't read 'bills', they can only yell 'racist' b/c they have NO other defense.


----------



## Nevada (Sep 9, 2004)

Tricky Grama said:


> First of all, do you realize how horrendous it is to campare the law that mirrors federal law to Nazi Germany?
> 
> Please tell us what happened to LEGAL Jewish people there? Were they in the act of committing a crime? Uh...NO!
> Were they asked to see their GREEN CARDS? Uh...NO!
> ...


You see, this is where I find conservatism disingenuous. You claim to champion constitutionality (mainly when it comes to your wallet), but you have no problem with government officials stopping us on the street demanding papers, no problem with habeas corpus being denied for certain crime allegations, and not even a problem with torture. In fact, conservatives even have a problem with simple procedural rules, like reading Miranda rights.

As I said, throwing out the constitution for expediency is what conservatism is all about.


----------



## Tricky Grama (Oct 7, 2006)

Oggie said:


> One need only to look at the differences in law between Arizona and New Mexico to see the effects of a mass migration of mostly white, mostly older, mostly conservative people into Arizona.


OK, I'm too dense to get this, Oggie pls explain. Or I'll send in the cats.


----------



## Tricky Grama (Oct 7, 2006)

tinknal said:


> I love getting the potda from Grama.:buds:


Awwww. :buds:


----------



## Tricky Grama (Oct 7, 2006)

Nevada said:


> You see, this is where I find conservatism disingenuous. You claim to champion constitutionality (mainly when it comes to your wallet), but you have no problem with government officials stopping us on the street demanding papers, no problem with habeas corpus being denied for certain crime allegations, and not even a problem with torture. In fact, conservatives even have a problem with simple procedural rules, like reading Miranda rights.
> 
> As I said, throwing out the constitution for expediency is what conservatism is all about.


Again, NV, you make so sense.
If you'd read the law, you'd know that you cannot be 'stopped on the street' for only 'papers'. However, you'd also know that aleins are required to carry their green cards. 
I'd die a thousand deaths rather than go thru the torture arguements w/you again, but I'll remind you that having a doc present while waterboeading is not torture. We do it to our Navy Seals. Plus we shut you up long ago when you finally realized that every POTUS who was one during ANY wartime did it. Yeah. All of 'em.
And do tell what you're trying to stir now about the miranda rights?


----------



## Oggie (May 29, 2003)

Tricky Grama said:


> OK, I'm too dense to get this, Oggie pls explain. Or I'll send in the cats.


The Hispanic and Native American population is a much higher percentage in New Mexico. There, they tend to see immigrants, even undocumented (illegal) immigrants as an asset. New Mexico allows undocumented workers to qualify for drivers licenses, seeing it as more of a public safety issue. New Mexico has a long history of, first, Native American, then Spanish, residents; centuries before Anglos came into the state.

Arizona has relatively recently had a large influx of conservative , mainly Anglo, residents; settling mainly in the Phoenix area. You'll find the southern and northern areas much more diverse, ethnically and politically.

So, needless to say, this fall's gubernatorial election will be a bit interesting.


----------



## Tricky Grama (Oct 7, 2006)

Oggie said:


> The Hispanic and Native American population is a much higher percentage in New Mexico. There, they tend to see immigrants, even undocumented (illegal) immigrants as an asset. New Mexico allows undocumented workers to qualify for drivers licenses, seeing it as more of a public safety issue. New Mexico has a long history of, first, Native American, then Spanish, residents; centuries before Anglos came into the state.
> 
> Arizona has relatively recently had a large influx of conservative , mainly Anglo, residents; settling mainly in the Phoenix area. You'll find the southern and northern areas much more diverse, ethnically and politically.
> 
> So, needless to say, this fall's gubernatorial election will be a bit interesting.


OK, I see.
Thought you'd mention tho, NM's gov is Dem, AZ's gov is "R".


----------



## Ambereyes (Sep 6, 2004)

Tricky Grama said:


> Again, NV, you make so sense.
> If you'd read the law, you'd know that you cannot be 'stopped on the street' for only 'papers'. However, you'd also know that aleins are required to carry their green cards.
> I'd die a thousand deaths rather than go thru the torture arguements w/you again, but I'll remind you that having a doc present while waterboeading is not torture. We do it to our Navy Seals. Plus we shut you up long ago when you finally realized that every POTUS who was one during ANY wartime did it. Yeah. All of 'em.
> And do tell what you're trying to stir now about the miranda rights?


Sounds like Nevada is into diversionary tactics..If you don't have a realistic argument, divert the topic...


----------



## sweetbabyjane (Oct 21, 2002)

Do you all not see that vickiesmom is a TROLL? Every post she makes is inflammatory. Please do not feed the troll.

SBJ


----------



## Oggie (May 29, 2003)

Tricky Grama said:


> OK, I see.
> Thought you'd mention tho, NM's gov is Dem, AZ's gov is "R".


That's quite recent for Arizona, and not by election.

As I said, the fall gubernatorial race will be interesting. It might be that folks in Arizona would be happy with a GOP legislature and a Dem governor, again.

Time will tell.


----------



## Nevada (Sep 9, 2004)

Tricky Grama said:


> Again, NV, you make so sense.
> If you'd read the law, you'd know that you cannot be 'stopped on the street' for only 'papers'. However, you'd also know that aleins are required to carry their green cards.


What are American citizens required to produce?



Tricky Grama said:


> I'd die a thousand deaths rather than go thru the torture arguements w/you again, but I'll remind you that having a doc present while waterboeading is not torture. We do it to our Navy Seals. Plus we shut you up long ago when you finally realized that every POTUS who was one during ANY wartime did it. Yeah. All of 'em.


I don't know where it says that having a doctor present makes torture not torture, but your post speaks for itself. It's more justification to skirt the constitution.



Tricky Grama said:


> And do tell what you're trying to stir now about the miranda rights?


As I recall, McCain advocated not giving the Times Square suspect his Miranda rights.

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t9nICDoXRt4[/ame]


----------



## 7thswan (Nov 18, 2008)

Ambereyes said:


> What is it that makes some think that illegal is a race? LOL..


I don't know eather. Is that the chicken came first , except when it's a certian kind of chicken. Then the egg firsters, get a pass. I wanna get otta jail free card too.


----------



## Jenni979 (Jan 27, 2010)

Just adding my 2 cents:

Hubby was a truck driver for a tiny bit after he got medically discharged from the Army... You should have seen the amount of paper work they made him carry. He must have had about 6 picture ID's and they made him get a passprt, as well. He NEVER left the US, but was told to carry it with him anyway.

Now, I doubt that any of you have read my blog, but DH's picture is on there... He is, quite clearly, caucasian...

Now, maybe Abdon's trucking company never gave him the same orders, I have no idea...

But, I do know, from his own admission, that Abdon was not pulled over randomly... He was at a weigh station, which then gives the people staffing said weigh station (whether that be ICE, local LEO's or whomever) the right to ask for all sorts of information.

One last bit... I'm not sure if this is true, but this was posted as a response to the article on Abdon, by a someone who was supposedly there at the time (again, he could totally be making it up, I have no way of knowing...)

*4klsaz said on May 11, 2010 at 4:02 PM*
_He refused to give any information about himself, name, ssn, license, etc. When he was asked to provide his license he said he didn&#8217;t have one then they asked him where he lived and he said I don&#8217;t know where do you think??? My family lives in Mexico so what does that tell you??? It was only after he was detained and sent to immigration to find out who he was that he provided identification. He knew what he was doing before he was even stopped, I'm assuming thinking he could get a law suit. There were several law enforcement agencies there and ICE that can testify what this guy is saying is fabricated. You don&#8217;t get detained for not having a birth certificate; you do if your breaking the law or refusing to reveal who you are and by what was told to me, the law enforcement team definitely kept their cool with this guy!!!! I would like for the news media to give the other side of the story!!!._

AGAIN, I just found this on the internet, so goodness knows how much faith we should put in it...


----------



## Cornhusker (Mar 20, 2003)

vickiesmom said:


> Racism is racism no matter what flag you fly it under.


The Arizona law isn't racism.


----------



## Cornhusker (Mar 20, 2003)

lilmizlayla said:


> They dont observe MLKs birthday???
> 
> 
> LOLOLOL..None of her business unless she lives there?
> ...


They aren't chasing our Hispanics.
They are enforcing immigration laws.


----------



## Txsteader (Aug 22, 2005)

Nevada said:


> You see, this is where I find conservatism disingenuous. You claim to champion constitutionality (mainly when it comes to your wallet), but you have no problem with government officials stopping us on the street demanding papers, no problem with habeas corpus being denied for certain crime allegations, and not even a problem with torture. In fact, conservatives even have a problem with simple procedural rules, like reading Miranda rights.
> 
> As I said, throwing out the constitution for expediency is what conservatism is all about.


Shall we just do away with borders all together? Why do you hate your fellow Americans?


----------



## Cornhusker (Mar 20, 2003)

Nevada said:


> What are American citizens required to produce?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I am required to show my ID, vehicle registration and proof of insurance any time I get stopped.
Next time I'll tell them to stop being racist.
John McCain is about as Republican as you are.
Tell me Nevada, you seem to know a lot, what is your answer to the problem in Arizona?
Are you saying the people of Arizona should just put up with the violence, rapes, thefts, gangs, drugs, murders, vandalism etc. that comes with the illegals?
Are you all for letting the Mexican drug cartels set up shop in any state they choose?
Do you plan to explain your views to the widows of the farmers murdered by hordes of illegals pillaging their farm, killing their animals and stealing their vehicles?
What are they supposed to do, just move out and let the illegals take it all?
Come on, give us an answer.
The citizens of Arizona affected are all races, and they are sick of your illegals ruining their lives.
You liberal racists make me sick.


----------



## Cornhusker (Mar 20, 2003)

Txsteader said:


> Shall we just do away with borders all together? Why do you hate your fellow Americans?


He's following his Obama, hating Americans and wanting them killed by illegals.
Oh, and they need those illegal votes again.
He preaches about the Constitution, but love, love, loves it when Obama ignores it.
That's leftists for you, and that's their racist bigoted way.


----------



## 7thswan (Nov 18, 2008)

Txsteader said:


> Shall we just do away with borders all together? Why do you hate your fellow Americans?


Whispers- cause Libs. have the I feel sorry for everyone and hate America Gene.:sob:


----------



## Tricky Grama (Oct 7, 2006)

Nevada said:


> What are American citizens required to produce?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


As I recall, McCain was citing a law that allows for just that, read up, NV.

Not sure what you are asking about as far as what Americans are asked to produce, but I have to produce my DL or another form of ID if I've done something unlawful, or been stopped for traffic violation.

Now, do you have any justification for your hurtful comments, minimizing the Holocaust?


----------



## Jenni979 (Jan 27, 2010)

OT: The UK is thinking about banning teaching about the Holocaust in their schools because it may offend the muslims, who say that the whole thing never happened...

Sorry to be OT, but this really makes me mad...


----------



## Tricky Grama (Oct 7, 2006)

I'd like to hear what our lib friends here think of ol' Eric. 
BWahahahaha! 
This is what we've got going in D.C. folks. God help us all.

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5U4tI_qzyH0[/ame]


----------



## shanzone2001 (Dec 3, 2009)

lilmizlayla said:


> They dont observe MLKs birthday???
> 
> 
> LOLOLOL..None of her business unless she lives there?
> ...


*OUR country will be struggling once we chase out the hispanics? HA!!! What are you smokin'? The hispanics come to America because of the American prosperity...they are not the ones who created it!!!*


----------



## shanzone2001 (Dec 3, 2009)

vickiesmom said:


> Racism is racism no matter what flag you fly it under.


It is people like you who scream racism at the drop of a hat that really make it difficult when it is the "real deal". Simply recognizing a certain ethnic race or culture does not equal racism.


----------



## Oggie (May 29, 2003)

shanzone2001 said:


> *OUR country will be struggling once we chase out the hispanics? HA!!! What are you smokin'? The hispanics come to America because of the American prosperity...they are not the ones who created it!!!*


If you study American history, you will realize that such a sweeping generalization is simply false.


----------



## WindowOrMirror (Jan 10, 2005)

Nevada said:


> I thought that blatant strawman arguments were against the rules around here.


It's not a strawman, it's an ANALOGY (and a good one)

R

P.S. I don't believe that illegals are granted privileges under the Constitution... not sure their rights are recognized either... just sayin'


----------



## shanzone2001 (Dec 3, 2009)

Oggie said:


> If you study American history, you will realize that such a sweeping generalization is simply false.


Let me rephrase it then....look at our level of prosperity and that of Mexico....do you really think a constant surge of illegal immigrants leaving Mexico will contribute to the prosperity of America, or bring us down? Do the Mexican people add to the ecomomy more than they cost, ie: education, prison and legal sytem, etc? We already have too many legal citizens who rely on government handouts...are you willing and ready to pay for more???


----------



## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

> I thought that blatant strawman arguments were against the rules around here


Then don't keep using them


> No, they are racist because they target Hispanics, not illegals


----------



## Oggie (May 29, 2003)

shanzone2001 said:


> Let me rephrase it then....look at our level of prosperity and that of Mexico....do you really think a constant surge of illegal immigrants leaving Mexico will contribute to the prosperity of America, or bring us down? Do the Mexican people add to the ecomomy more than they cost, ie: education, prison and legal sytem, etc? We already have too many legal citizens who rely on government handouts...are you willing and ready to pay for more???



And, if you look at the history of this nation you will learn that, in many regions, what is there was built by people of Hispanic descent long before those areas were a part of America. They did not, in fact, come to the United States, we came to them. And some of their families were there even before the Mayflower landed on the east coast.

Those Hispanics that arrived more recently aren't that much different, as far as from a socioeconomic standpoint, than the Irish, Italians, Chinese, and other groups in the past.


----------



## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

> Those Hispanics that arrived more recently aren't that much different, as far as from a socioeconomic standpoint, than the* Irish, Italians, Chinese, and other groups in the past.*


Except those other groups came LEGALLY
Why do so many keep trying to avoid that KEY element?


----------



## Oggie (May 29, 2003)

Bearfootfarm said:


> Except those other groups came LEGALLY
> Why do so many keep trying to avoid that KEY element?


And, during those times, there were no immigration restraints whatsoever. That's pretty much the intent of our Founding Fathers.


And many of those in Arizona who might be asked to show proof of their citizenship came here legally, also.

You have to remember that, with the Arizona law, revisions had to be made so that the main thrust of the measure wouldn't be racial profiling. They had to go back and "fix" the legislation. It leaves little question what their original intent was. And little question what color those who are likely to be asked for proof of citizenship will be.


----------



## tinknal (May 21, 2004)

Oggie said:


> And, during those times, there were no immigration restraints whatsoever.


Wanna bet?


----------



## Cornhusker (Mar 20, 2003)

Oggie said:


> And, during those times, there were no immigration restraints whatsoever. That's pretty much the intent of our Founding Fathers.
> 
> 
> And many of those in Arizona who might be asked to show proof of their citizenship came here legally, also.
> ...


So you are saying what?
If the person is Hispanic, they shouldn't have to show their ID, but everybody else has to?
That's pretty racist of you.
No wonder this country is in the crapper with liberals running things.


----------



## Oggie (May 29, 2003)

Cornhusker said:


> So you are saying what?
> If the person is Hispanic, they shouldn't have to show their ID, but everybody else has to?
> That's pretty racist of you.
> No wonder this country is in the crapper with liberals running things.



No, what I am saying is that everyone should be asked for their ID. And, if anyone is asked for proof of citizenship beyond an ID, everyone should be asked for it.

That's just basic equal protection under the law.

As for your attempts at slander; I'm rubber, you're glue.


----------



## copperkid3 (Mar 18, 2005)

Oggie said:


> And, if you look at the history of this nation you will learn that, in many regions, what is there was built by people of Hispanic descent long before those areas were a part of America. They did not, in fact, come to the United States, we came to them. And some of their families were there even before the Mayflower landed on the east coast.
> 
> Those Hispanics that arrived more recently *aren't that much different*, as far as from a socioeconomic standpoint, than the Irish, Italians, Chinese, and other groups in the past.


******************************************
*MAJOR* difference between the groups you cited which came to this country *LEGALLY*.......
-vs- those who keep arriving on a daily basis today and *ILLEGALLY!!!* 

I find it vaguely annoying that the so-called progressives deliberately overlook the Constitution 
when it does not help their position and then continue the ad nauseum attacks against any who 
oppose them by *ALWAYS* claiming racism. A quick peek at the Constitution and what 
powers are actually granted to the feds and what they are *REQUIRED *to do, should be 
all that is necessary to stop the petty squabbling. :umno: 

_U.S. Constitution - Article 1 Section 8

Article 1 - The Legislative Branch
Section 8 - Powers of Congress



The Congress shall have Power To lay and collect Taxes, Duties, Imposts and Excises, 
to pay the Debts and *provide for the common Defense* and general Welfare 
of the United States; but all Duties, Imposts and Excises shall be uniform throughout the United States;

To borrow money on the credit of the United States;

To regulate Commerce with foreign Nations, and among the several States, and with the Indian Tribes;

To establish an uniform Rule of Naturalization, and uniform Laws on the subject of Bankruptcies throughout the United States;

To coin Money, regulate the Value thereof, and of foreign Coin, and fix the Standard of Weights and Measures;

To provide for the Punishment of counterfeiting the Securities and current Coin of the United States;

To establish Post Offices and Post Roads;

To promote the Progress of Science and useful Arts, by securing for limited Times to 
Authors and Inventors the exclusive Right to their respective Writings and Discoveries;

To constitute Tribunals inferior to the supreme Court;

To define and punish Piracies and Felonies committed on the high Seas, and Offenses against the Law of Nations;

To declare War, grant Letters of Marque and Reprisal,* and make Rules concerning Captures on Land and Water;*

To raise and support Armies, but no Appropriation of Money to that Use shall be for a longer Term than two Years;

To provide and maintain a Navy;

To make Rules for the Government and Regulation of the land and naval Forces;

*To provide for calling forth the Militia to execute the Laws of the Union, 
suppress Insurrections and repel Invasions;*

To provide for organizing, arming, and disciplining, the Militia, and for governing such 
Part of them as may be employed in the Service of the United States, reserving to the 
States respectively, the Appointment of the Officers, and the Authority of training the Militia 
according to the discipline prescribed by Congress;

To exercise exclusive Legislation in all Cases whatsoever, over such District (not exceeding 
ten Miles square) as may, by Cession of particular States, and the acceptance of 
Congress, become the Seat of the Government of the United States, and to exercise like 
Authority over all Places purchased by the Consent of the Legislature of the State in which 
the Same shall be, for the Erection of Forts, Magazines, Arsenals, dock-Yards, 
and other needful Buildings; And

To make all Laws which shall be necessary and proper for carrying into Execution 
the foregoing Powers, and all other Powers vested by this Constitution in the Government 
of the United States, or in any Department or Officer thereof.
_

Obviously, Congress has failed in much of what they are *REQUIRED* 
to do and have in many instances, gone *ABOVE* and *BEYOND* what they should be doing.......
WE, the people, have been negligent as well as far as *NOT* 
holding their feet to the fire and demanding an accounting for why
and also that they return to what the founders had originally written. 

The 'feds' have already written up the laws required to secure our borders; i.e. who gets 
to come in and who doesn't. They 'used to' enforce those laws.....but because of 'politics', 
they no longer do so......or at the very least, they are no longer equally enforced. 
Therefore there is nothing prohibiting the states to enact similar laws and to *ENFORCE* 
them to protect their own citizens; especially if the feds have forsaken those exact, same duties.


----------



## Oggie (May 29, 2003)

And our Founding Fathers wouldn't be all that proud of the royal mess we've made of immigration law.

Then, we tacitly encouraged folks to skirt the complex and pernicious laws that exist.

Then, we say that those laws are somehow sacred when the whim strikes.

And most of those who are the most self-righteous did nothing more that squirt out of their mommy on American soil to gain their citizenship.


----------



## shanzone2001 (Dec 3, 2009)

Oggie said:


> And, if you look at the history of this nation you will learn that, in many regions, what is there was built by people of Hispanic descent long before those areas were a part of America. They did not, in fact, come to the United States, we came to them. And some of their families were there even before the Mayflower landed on the east coast.
> 
> Those Hispanics that arrived more recently aren't that much different, as far as from a socioeconomic standpoint, than the Irish, Italians, Chinese, and other groups in the past.


I do not dispute that...what I was addressing is the post that claimed that once Mexicans were out of Arizona the economy will then struggle and have its hand out to the government. I believe the Mexican illegals are a drain on the system, not the glue that holds it together!


----------



## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

> And, during those times, there were no immigration restraints whatsoever. That's pretty much the intent of our Founding Fathers.


Marijuana, heroin and cocaine were all legal too

But we are talking about HERE and NOW, and they are here ILLEGALLY



> And most of those who are the most self-righteous did nothing more that squirt out of their mommy on American soil to gain their citizenship.


Our *LEGAL AMERICAN *Mommies


----------



## Oggie (May 29, 2003)

Bearfootfarm said:


> Our *LEGAL AMERICAN *Mommies


I'd take what the Constitution says over whatever the revisionists would like to change it to.


----------



## Tricky Grama (Oct 7, 2006)

Oggie said:


> And, if you look at the history of this nation you will learn that, in many regions, what is there was built by people of Hispanic descent long before those areas were a part of America. They did not, in fact, come to the United States, we came to them. And some of their families were there even before the Mayflower landed on the east coast.
> 
> Those Hispanics that arrived more recently aren't that much different, as far as from a socioeconomic standpoint, than the Irish, Italians, Chinese, and other groups in the past.


I totally agree. However, it seems you are speaking of immigrants, LEGAL immigrants. This country is almost completely made up of LEGAL immigrants.


----------



## Tricky Grama (Oct 7, 2006)

Oggie said:


> No, what I am saying is that everyone should be asked for their ID. And, if anyone is asked for proof of citizenship beyond an ID, everyone should be asked for it.
> 
> That's just basic equal protection under the law.
> 
> As for your attempts at slander; I'm rubber, you're glue.


So if an illegal shows their mexican DL, are you saying they should NOT be asked for their green card? You know, the one that is FEDERALLY mandated that they carry?


----------



## Oggie (May 29, 2003)

Tricky Grama said:


> So if an illegal shows their mexican DL, are you saying they should NOT be asked for their green card? You know, the one that is FEDERALLY mandated that they carry?


And if a dark-skinned man or woman shows an Arizona officer an out-of-state drivers license, that's good enough?


----------



## Tricky Grama (Oct 7, 2006)

Oggie said:


> And if a dark-skinned man or woman shows an Arizona officer an out-of-state drivers license, that's good enough?


Why not?

You didn't watch this did ya?

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5U4tI_qzyH0[/ame]

Did you know LEGAL hispanics are for this law nearly 2 to 1?
Did you know 70% of AZ is FOR this law?
Why is the far left so against US citizens?


----------



## Oggie (May 29, 2003)

Tricky Grama said:


> Why not?
> 
> You didn't watch this did ya?
> 
> ...


Post a video, and chances are, I won't watch it.

I'll wait a year or so to see how Native Americans and Hispanics are treated under the Arizona law before I get too bent out of shape.

If the law can be enforced with singling out Hispanics, Native Americans or other people, I don't have a big problem with it.

And I'm sure you know that there are regions of Arizona, ranging from Tuscon to Flagstaff, where folks aren't too keen on this law.


----------



## Txsteader (Aug 22, 2005)

Oggie said:


> And, during those times, there were no immigration restraints whatsoever. That's pretty much the intent of our Founding Fathers.


There also weren't taxpayer-funded social programs for those immigrants to use and/or abuse. 

Isn't that the whole issue.......that the number of illegals in this country, who are using social services, has reached critical mass so that we can no longer afford the costs? We've seen reports of hospital administrators in Florida talking about the costs of treating illegals, to the tune of *millions* of dollars.....reports of illegals receiving FREE kidney dialysis treatment for years, to the point that hospitals are going bankrupt because of the burden being put on them treating illegals.


----------



## TJN66 (Aug 29, 2004)

No legal papers saying you belong here. Kick em out. Too darn bad. Come back thru legally then you dont have to worry about it. I have my legal papers...no problem for me. Tough cookies for the others that dont.


----------



## Tricky Grama (Oct 7, 2006)

Oggie said:


> Post a video, and chances are, I won't watch it.
> 
> Does that apply to laws passed by AZ too???
> 
> ...


I don't really know about the demographics of all of AZ.


----------



## Tiempo (May 22, 2008)

Bearfootfarm said:


> It's aimed at *ALL* illegals
> There just happens to be a dirth of Hispanics in Arizona
> 
> Sometimes your arguments are so weak it's obvious you can't really believe them yourself


Ahem, it's spelled dearth and it means the exact opposite of the way you used it here...unless you ARE saying that there are not enough Hispanics in Arizona, in which case I apologize.


----------



## Cornhusker (Mar 20, 2003)

What I'd like to know is why are Obama and Holder against protecting our citizens from foreign invaders?


----------



## shanzone2001 (Dec 3, 2009)

Oggie said:


> I'll wait a year or so to see how Native Americans and Hispanics are treated under the Arizona law before I get too bent out of shape.
> 
> If the law can be enforced with singling out Hispanics, Native Americans or other people, I don't have a big problem with it.


My family adopted a boy from Mexico and it took years to do it legally. He said he will be more than happy to provide proof of citizenship if asked. He has no problem being singled out....what he has a problem with is Mexicans coming here illegally and he has every right to feel that way after all the hard work he went through obtaining citizenship. My Mexican co-workers feel the same. If you have nothing to hide then you don't have a problem.

*Why do white people think they know how people of color feel? Does it just ease their "white guilt" to take the side of the so called "oppressed?"* Why do white people attempt to speak for other races without really knowing how they feel?


----------



## Cornhusker (Mar 20, 2003)

Some of my best friends are Mexican, and they think the anti Arizona mob are idiots.
They've been there on the other side, they know what goes on.
Send Obama and Holder down there to live on a border ranch for a month and see if they still want to recruit the invaders as voters.
Obama fails this country every day.
The idiot.


----------



## shanzone2001 (Dec 3, 2009)

sweetbabyjane said:


> Do you all not see that vickiesmom is a TROLL? Every post she makes is inflammatory. Please do not feed the troll.
> 
> SBJ


I thought the same thing!


----------



## poppy (Feb 21, 2008)

Tiempo said:


> Ahem, it's spelled dearth and it means the exact opposite of the way you used it here...unless you ARE saying that there are not enough Hispanics in Arizona, in which case I apologize.


Well, Limbaugh asked a good question today. The mayor of LA said the illegals have been a benefit to his city's economy. Why doesn't he offer to take Arizona's illegals and really boost his economy? It would be good for LA and Arizona's problem would be solved.


----------



## knight88 (Nov 17, 2006)

I have keep my mouth shut until now BUT. I live 2 1/2 miles from the mex border, I have been here for about 30 years. I have had 3 very expensive horses killed by illegals, Attempted break ins at my home. My wife was attacked on our ranch, she survived because she carries a gun and is not afraid to use it. I have had border patrol and cops of every venue here at one time or another. Yes I hear gunfire frequently at night.
I am NOT racist, I AM anti illegal, we have them coming from east europe, russia, china, central and south america, and I have found coins from the middle east under a fence. 
BEFORE you accuse people of being racist, learn the facts, our so called president has illegals in his family, pelosi owns a business that most probably employs them also.
I would not dare to employ an illegal as the fines are very high for us small business owners. You liberals think because obama says something that it is so. that man is one of the most uninformed, dishonest persons alive..
Please. BEFORE making accusations get your head out and look around!!!


----------



## where I want to (Oct 28, 2008)

sweetbabyjane said:


> Do you all not see that vickiesmom is a TROLL? Every post she makes is inflammatory. Please do not feed the troll.
> 
> SBJ


Yes- an a singularily boring one too- on the ignore list she goes.


----------



## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

> Ahem, it's spelled dearth and it means the exact opposite of the way you used it here...unless you ARE saying that there are not enough Hispanics in Arizona, in which case I apologize.


I stand corrected, since it's obvious I meant to say there are a plethora of Hispanic ILLEGALS in AZ


----------



## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

> I'd take what the Constitution says over whatever the revisionists would like to change it to.


The Constitution doesn't say let criminals get away with their crimes
We aren't talking about "revisionists"
We're talking about immigration LAWS


----------



## Oggie (May 29, 2003)

Bearfootfarm said:


> The Constitution doesn't say let criminals get away with their crimes
> We aren't talking about "revisionists"
> We're talking about immigration LAWS


And birthright goes directly back to the Constitution.


----------



## texican (Oct 4, 2003)

vickiesmom said:


> Racism is racism no matter what flag you fly it under.


So, your answer, like so many liberal-minded folks, is to simply surrender? How exactly would you enforce immigration law against illegal immigrants who happen to be a different race, than a good portion of native born citizens? If they were White, it'd be ok to enforce the laws? 

Sorry, the race card doesn't work... If Washington doesn't want to enforce the laws, the States will.

The overwhelming majority of illegal aliens are of a certain race (Hispanic), and by liberal logic, anything to try and "identify" these illegal immigrants has to be racist. Well, yes. Hispanics are a race.

Until someone can figure out how to profile and repatriate these illegal immigrants, without it being a racial thing, please step forward. Till, then, live with it.

Imho... if you can't speak fluent English, your immigration status, regardless of race, should be checked. Resident aliens (with green cards) are required to have proof on their person at all times.


----------



## Tricky Grama (Oct 7, 2006)

knight88 said:


> I have keep my mouth shut until now BUT. I live 2 1/2 miles from the mex border, I have been here for about 30 years. I have had 3 very expensive horses killed by illegals, Attempted break ins at my home. My wife was attacked on our ranch, she survived because she carries a gun and is not afraid to use it. I have had border patrol and cops of every venue here at one time or another. Yes I hear gunfire frequently at night.
> I am NOT racist, I AM anti illegal, we have them coming from east europe, russia, china, central and south america, and I have found coins from the middle east under a fence.
> BEFORE you accuse people of being racist, learn the facts, our so called president has illegals in his family, pelosi owns a business that most probably employs them also.
> I would not dare to employ an illegal as the fines are very high for us small business owners. You liberals think because obama says something that it is so. that man is one of the most uninformed, dishonest persons alive..
> Please. BEFORE making accusations get your head out and look around!!!


Post of the day award.


----------



## bowdonkey (Oct 6, 2007)

Bearfootfarm said:


> I stand corrected, since it's obvious I meant to say there are a plethora of Hispanic ILLEGALS in AZ


LOL! Good one BFF. :hysterical:


----------



## tarbe (Apr 7, 2007)

tyusclan said:


> Please explain how the law is racist.
> 
> If you are pulled over by the police, do they not ask for your driver's license and registration? They then check that license for warrants and to make sure it's not suspended. They verify that you are who you say you are.
> 
> ...



Exactly. I suspect anyone who claims this is racism is either ignorant of what the law says, or they have an agenda that is more important to them than the truth. 


Tim


----------



## Cornhusker (Mar 20, 2003)

knight88 said:


> I have keep my mouth shut until now BUT. I live 2 1/2 miles from the mex border, I have been here for about 30 years. I have had 3 very expensive horses killed by illegals, Attempted break ins at my home. My wife was attacked on our ranch, she survived because she carries a gun and is not afraid to use it. I have had border patrol and cops of every venue here at one time or another. Yes I hear gunfire frequently at night.
> I am NOT racist, I AM anti illegal, we have them coming from east europe, russia, china, central and south america, and I have found coins from the middle east under a fence.
> BEFORE you accuse people of being racist, learn the facts, our so called president has illegals in his family, pelosi owns a business that most probably employs them also.
> I would not dare to employ an illegal as the fines are very high for us small business owners. You liberals think because obama says something that it is so. that man is one of the most uninformed, dishonest persons alive..
> Please. BEFORE making accusations get your head out and look around!!!


This is what I've been saying.
The liberals and Obamabats have no idea what Arizona is up against, they just follow Obama's cries of racism without using a single brain particle.
It's a problem that needs dealt with, and if Obama won't defend America from this invasion, then real Americans will step up to do the job.


----------



## Tricky Grama (Oct 7, 2006)

Perhaps those who'd like to educate themselves will open this video. Its a newscast from Atlanta. Very telling, what most of us already know & fear. 

But beware-its racist. :shocked:

http://www.wsbtv.com/video/23438712/index.html


----------



## TJN66 (Aug 29, 2004)

Well...you know there just coming here to get away from the oppression in their home country! :smiley-laughing013:


----------



## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

> And birthright goes directly back to the Constitution.


It wasn't meant to cover "foreign visitors" which is what ILLEGAL aliens are


----------

