# ok... is my dog deaf??



## mtnmenagerie (Jun 16, 2007)

hi everybody - hoping you can help me out here. we picked up a new great pyrenees puppy yesterday. he was intended to be our second LGD for my little herd of milk goats. 
he is very interactive and friendly... but now that i have him home, i am basicly positive that he is deaf.

a few questions...

1. are there any tried and true methods of testing his hearing? (besides my insane calling, clapping, and whistling after i sneek up behind him)

2. is this a hereditary problem? (if i traded him for one out of the same litter... could i run into the same scenario?)

3. is it possible that he COULD work out as a "work" dog... learning to work WITH my other great pyrenees. or would it be better for him to be in a "pet" home?

sorry to ramble... just very confused. i need to call the breeder as soon as possible, but i'm not sure how to proceed. any help will be appreciated.


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## longshadowfarms (Nov 27, 2002)

You can take him to an ear dr and see if they can do an ?audiogram? - something where the computer inputs sound to the ear and then the computer draws a picture. Not sure how much that would run you. The best thing is to get a whistle ($1) from walmart or the dollar store and try that to see if you get through. I am on my second deaf Pyr out of 4 so I suspect there is some element of it within the breed. Both of mine have had some hearing, not complete loss. Both were excellent working dogs BUT some input from another dog would be a must to be truly effective AND I think some minimal hearing would be a must as well. Mine is able to hear the other dogs barking when they are close to him. If they are a distance away (for example, if he is asleep behind the house and they are barking out front) he won't hear a thing. I can also walk right past him and open the gate and he won't hear it. He feels the vibration through the ground before he hears things. With the hearing loss I have seen that they tend to compensate by using their other senses and my current Pyr knows a number of hand signals. You just need to be sure you have their attention when working with them and don't startle them awake - give them time to see that it is you, not a predator or intruder, before you make another move.


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## mtnmenagerie (Jun 16, 2007)

thank you very much for your input! i'm glad to speek to someone with direct experience in this situation... i'm considering keeping him and getting one of his brother to raise with him... seems like it would help to have a mate to grow and bond with. (besides my adult pyrenees). but that would lead to me worrying about the pups bonding with one another too much to become effective LGD's... ??

thanks again


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## GoldenMom (Jan 2, 2005)

I may be totally wrong about this, but if this pup is suppposed to be a working dog not a "mostly pet that works some" then being hear impaired is going to really impact his effectiveness. I would take the pup back and either pick a pup that appears to be able to hear or find a different litter.


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## GoatNamedDunn (Jun 20, 2008)

> The second white pattern is commonly seen in Beagles (and other hounds), Bulldogs, Cocker Spaniels and English Setters (and other breeds as well). It is called the Piebald Spotting Gene (S^p - non-symmetrical random white pattern). This pattern does not always cause deafness, it is only a problem when the inner ear is missing pigment (see "What Causes Deafness in Dogs?" above).
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Curtesy the deaf dog website. I know that GP come with "badger ears" and so... when they are ALL white they are at risk for deafness.


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## mtnmenagerie (Jun 16, 2007)

wow, thanks for that - i need to look into that website.
this pup does have the badger markings... kind of a "broken badger" i guess. lol, yeah, i think i just made that up...


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## mtnmenagerie (Jun 16, 2007)




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## Rondah (Apr 1, 2008)

mtnmenagerie said:


>


OMWORD! hahahaha what a cutiepie! 

I agree 100% with Longshadowfarms on this one (well I almost always agree with her in general, but for sure this time). A dog can be totally deaf and work out just fine. 
We have a Rotty and a Bullmastiff. The rotty can hear, the bullmastiff is deaf. The bullmastiff is a FAR BETTER guard dog than the rotty. The hearing rotty lays around farting and snoring, while she sits in the window, watching. If we go for a walk, she is out front, watching everything, he is sniffing his own rear end. He is VERY smart, it isn't that, it's that working ability in a dog is in the heart, not in ONE sense. Also keep in mind that dogs don't use their hearing as much as smell. 
I do think it would be nice to get a second pup, but that is only because I love puppies and always think one more is good :sing: but it isn't really needed. 
The best way imo to find out if the pup is deaf is to sneak up on him when he is sound asleep, and yell. Do it outside because he might feel the floor vibrate if you do it indoors. LSfarms is right too, that a whistle is a good idea  
Deaf dogs can easily pick up hand signals. Our mastiff learned things from watching our rotty, but if you teach them with hand signals, they can learn all by themselves, as quickly as they would've learned voice commands.  

That is ONE CUTE PUP! Any more pictures? ::coy smile:: :cute:


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## Otter (Jan 15, 2008)

Well, besides being OMG cute, he does have colored ears, while not a sure sign of hearing, generally color-deaf dogs don't have colored ears.

What makes you believe he is deaf? He looks very young. They don't have much attention span at that age. He could just be suffering sensory overload. There are so many new things to see and smell and hear and chew and feel in his new home he might not have time(maturity) to react to them all. When you tried whistling behind him, was he distracted by other things? Try it when he's just getting up from a nap and you and he are alone in a room.

I know if I did any conceivable deafness test while my young beagle was eating, he would fail. I believe that all his other senses shut down while his taste buds are working, lol.

I don't know how much you want to spend, but a vet could tell you. Many states (though I have no idea about yours) have "puppy lemon laws" where if a breeder is notified about a defect like that in their line, and they knowingly sell a puppy that is likely to suffer from the same defect they can be held responsible for costs. I'm not saying you should sue or assume that they know, but definitely notify the breeder (better yet have the vet send a letter) if it is confirmed something is wrong.


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## Rondah (Apr 1, 2008)

Otter I sort of wondered about the age thing, too. Puppies are mentally moronic. I mean, you can't really expect normal behavior from a pup that age. I don't think I'd really 'worry' about it until the pup has an attention span longer than 4 seconds :cute:


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## mtnmenagerie (Jun 16, 2007)

thanks again ya'll. at first i thought it was just that he is a very young puppy, with not much reason to pay attention to me... but i've tried many ways of waking him while he is napping and he wont even wiggle an ear. i think my most fool proof test was a pot with a lid full off forks... shook that thing like crazy from far off all the way up to where he was laying... i will say that once i get very close he does seem to hear SOME.


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## mtnmenagerie (Jun 16, 2007)

here ya go Rondah...


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## tailwagging (Jan 6, 2005)

Find out what kennel clubs are in your area. Then talk with someone there about BAER clinics that are sometimes held at the shows. They are SO much cheaper to do at a show then at the vet's.
Pups can and often do fool you.


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## Otter (Jan 15, 2008)

He is *so* adorable. 
Some puppies that age are _incredibly_ sound sleepers, so don't try waking him. Try him just after he wakes up, before he has a chance to get distracted. I've known babies of several species who don't wake up short of a bomb going off. 

I know that I myself am a world class fretter about my critters, but I'd try not to worry too much until he's been there a couple of days. If he has even partial hearing he should still be a good LG. But my guess is he is just a very young puppy with so many new things around it's shorting out his brain and when he crashes he crashes hard. But if you really think he's deaf, there is the test. Tailwagging's idea is a good one.


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## SageLady (Jun 10, 2008)

Well, he is darn CUTE!! I've had some pups that slept so soundly that it appeared they couldn't hear. They were just doggone tired!!


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## airotciv (Mar 6, 2005)

I can only say that my bother-in-law had a deaf hearding dog and hunting dog. They both were very good at there jobs. Both dogs knew dog sign lauguage, As my DH would say the best duck dog, we ever worked.


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## mzzlisa (Feb 22, 2004)

And Pyrs are world famous for their selective hearing! Maybe he is just an early practitioner of the art! I know mine is a pro at it.


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## Rondah (Apr 1, 2008)

::sniffs screen hoping for puppy breath:: The is one CUTE PUPPER! OMG if you don't want him, send him on down my way :sing: I'll take that deaf little squirt! lol! how cute!


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## TedH71 (Jan 19, 2003)

Take him to the nearest vet that has an ear test equipment but if there's no vet that has it in your area then try the nearest university with a vet program. I have a suspected deaf dog who is partially blind that I need to take to KU to get her ears and eyes tested then I will place her in a home where she would interact only with one other dog or by herself. She would get more attention and time than where she is at my place with 4 other dogs and a toddler in the house plus another baby on the way....


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## longshadowfarms (Nov 27, 2002)

You forgot to put up the "cuteness" warning! My heart isn't smart enough to say no to something that cute! I agree that it would be good to try something when he's awake, but not aware of you. Try that pot thing when his back is toward you and he's not paying attention to you. Only you can decide on how much hearing loss you're willing to live with. What happens if the loss continues and this one has to cover as the only LGD at some point? For my situation, there are 3-4 levels of security for the stock. The Pyr is/was only one of those security levels so I can live with a dog that doesn't hear EVERYTHING. Only you know your situation and needs. Maybe you can talk to the breeder (after the pot test) and see what might happen if you don't think he'll work out as an LGD.


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## mtnmenagerie (Jun 16, 2007)

lol - ya'll are wonderful! thank you for all of your advice and input. it's nice to be able to fall back to such a knowledgeable community. i'll keep this post as a reference!
yes, he is cute and very smart... and without a doubt... deaf. so i just couldn't give him up. so he will be staying here on my farm with one of his brothers. with some hard work, i think things will work out very well.
i'll be sure to give updates 

thanks again


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## longshadowfarms (Nov 27, 2002)

You might be able to use the deafness for some leverage with the breeder to get a brother free or at least at a reduced rate.


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## mtnmenagerie (Jun 16, 2007)

longshadowfarms said:


> You might be able to use the deafness for some leverage with the breeder to get a brother free or at least at a reduced rate.



lol - actually, i am getting the brother for free. we were going to "swap"... but i just really wanted to give this guy a chance. so they said since they couldn't sell this pup anyway, i could just keep it if i wanted it.


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## Rondah (Apr 1, 2008)

mtnmenagerie said:


> lol - actually, i am getting the brother for free. we were going to "swap"... but i just really wanted to give this guy a chance. so they said since they couldn't sell this pup anyway, i could just keep it if i wanted it.


Longshadow: PUPPYPUSHER! :banana02:

MTN: OMG TWO PUPS!? hahahahahahaha I hope you have a camera ready all the time because that cuteness factor is going to be through the roof! When do you get the freebie? Will you name him freebie? OMG you could name the first one 'Buyone' and the second one could be 'Getone' 
:sing::sing::sing::sing::sing:


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## mtnmenagerie (Jun 16, 2007)

Buyone, Getone
lol, that's too funny! i think we are going to meet them about half way on sunday. 
i know! two puppies!? and i thought i would have my hands full already.
really though... i hope that having a second pup will help the deaf one along with learning and i'm hoping that he will learn to use his brother as his "ears". 

we will have to come up with some good names. i had thought about naming this one Jake... but that was before i realized i wold have a pair of the little rascals! 

on a very positive note... this little guy is fearless! walks right up to anything in the farm like it's his best friend. and we are already working on the "come here" hand signal which he is catching on to in a hurry!


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## Willowynd (Mar 27, 2005)

I have a deaf collie- actually he belongs to my son who is in Iraq but was born here so is "boarding". Actually, he gets along quite well. Yes, it was a challenge teaching him quiet as he has to be looking at me to get the command. That can be frustrating. Also crate training was more difficult...or should I say retraining. He was crate trained before he left, but after getting used to sleeping in bed with my son, we had a noisy couple weeks. The usual soft music made no difference and could not tell him to quiet and of course he was way too large to share a crate at 6 mo old. We did get through it though with light flicks. He learned the flick of the light means quiet. Also comes in handy if he is barking outside after dark....but with summer here...he is usually in bed by then anyhow. You can think up many clever ways to communicate without using sound. Hand signals are great. I always dual train my dogs anyhow (voice and hand signals) so that was easy for me and my son as he had helped me with training in the past with other dogs. Use light to your advantage. Laser pointers are your freind  Also smells. I use smells with his sister mainly as she is mostly blind and only partially deaf- she can hear woman's voices, but deep voices and high pitched noises she can't. I use smells with her to help her find her way to the door, etc. in the dark, though she does not depend on them as she usually has a buddy to follow. There is no reson the dog cannot do his duty. Even though he cannot hear, he will rely on his other senses more heavily to do his job.


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## GrannyCarol (Mar 23, 2005)

I bred English Setters for years, they have some trouble with the spotting genes and deafness. I used to have my whole litters BAER tested at a local university. We'd get a group discount and it wasn't terribly expensive. We definitely did not breed from deaf or partially deaf dogs. We had a few that were deaf in one ear, but fine in the other, they did fine. I had one totally deaf pup, he was very lovable and ended up being a loved pet, though I gave him away to a friend who knew his status. 

You will have challenges training this pup if he's hearing impaired (and he may not be totally deaf). I would get him BAER tested, it's worth it to know what you are dealing with. The breeder might want to consider testing her breeding stock and puppies - you can do it at any age, though an adult might be deaf from infection rather than genetics. Even a very young puppy can be tested though, as young as 5 weeks old. 

Your pup is TOO cute!


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## Rondah (Apr 1, 2008)

::waits excitedly for pics on Sunday:: :sing:


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