# Old canning lids



## sss3 (Jul 15, 2007)

Bought 220 jars plus 30 doz lids for $20 off CL. However, the lids have never been opened; and are the older type. Can they still be used?


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## oneokie (Aug 14, 2009)

Knowing the brand of the lids and the color of the sealant on them will help us determine if they are still useable.

Having said that, I have used lids 25+ years old. Boiling them improved the sealing percentage (100%)


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## po boy (Jul 12, 2010)

If the rubber gasket is not dried out and it fits the jar, they should be ok..


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## suitcase_sally (Mar 20, 2006)

oneokie said:


> Boiling them improved the sealing percentage (100%)


Check the directions on the box. Most brands say "DO NOT BOIL".


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## oneokie (Aug 14, 2009)

suitcase_sally said:


> Check the directions on the box. Most brands say "DO NOT BOIL".


That is true, but, IMO, that is for new or nearly new lids. My experience with old lids did not work well with just a simmer. 50% failure rate with old lids in simmering water.


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## Paquebot (May 10, 2002)

The difference between simmering and boiling is 200ÂºF and 212ÂºF. Without a thermometer, it is impossible to tell when water is simmering unless it has first reached the boiling point and then the heat reduced to where there is little or no bubbling or steam. That process is mainly to sterilize and wash the flats rather than do anything for the sealant. Otherwise there would be no need for it. In a BWB they are held at 212ÂºF throughout the boiling time. With pressure canner, it's 240ÂºF. Both temperatures are well above simmering. 

Martin


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## suitcase_sally (Mar 20, 2006)

Paquebot said:


> That process is mainly to sterilize and wash the flats rather than do anything for the sealant.


Hmmm..., I don't think that sterilzation is the purpose. Sterilization requires 212Âº, which is boiling, and the product package says "do not boil". The information I have always read is that the purpose of the heating is to soften the sealant on the lids so as to better conform to the shape of the rim. If you boil the lids rather than simmer, the sealant gets so soft that you risk the rim of the jar cutting completely through the sealant rendering it ineffective. That is why you don't screw the ring on with bull-force, you only screw it down "firmly tight".


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## Paquebot (May 10, 2002)

If you reach the simmering point, the sealant is already soft enough. That will happen no matter if you do it in separately in water or straight out of the box onto the jars. The vacuum created by the cooling jars will impress the flats onto the jar rims. 

Martin


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## Paquebot (May 10, 2002)

And before there are some "Yes, but.....", I'm looking at 3 sets of instructions on lid boxes. "IMPORTANT: Boil lids 5 minutes immediately before using." "Scald lids and keep in scalding water (at least 3 minutes) until used." ""Place lids and bands in a pan with hot water and heat almost to boiling." First is Bernardin, second is Kerr, third is Gardener's Kitchen. The whole situation can definitely be a head-scratcher!

Martin


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## oneokie (Aug 14, 2009)

Paquebot said:


> And before there are some "Yes, but.....", I'm looking at 3 sets of instructions on lid boxes. "IMPORTANT: Boil lids 5 minutes immediately before using." "Scald lids and keep in scalding water (at least 3 minutes) until used." ""Place lids and bands in a pan with hot water and heat almost to boiling." First is Bernardin, second is Kerr, third is Gardener's Kitchen. The whole situation can definitely be a head-scratcher!
> 
> Martin


Would not the different instructions be due to different compositions of the sealant from the different manufacturers?

My earlier post was in reference to some Kerr lids with the gray selant that were purchased in the late 1970's and used in 2009.


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## Paquebot (May 10, 2002)

Kerr flat box with gray sealant could cause even more head scratching. "Wash jars, lids, and bands in hot soapy water. Rinse. Dry bands, set aside. Place lids and jars in a saucepot, cover with water and bring to a simmer (180ÂºF). Leave lids and jars in water until ready to use."

Ball from same era has: "Place lids in a saucepan cover with water and bring to a simmer (180ÂºF). REMOVE FROM HEAT. Leave lids in hot water until ready to use."

Now we have 5 boxes and 5 different instructions with one not calling for boiling the jars.

Martin


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## salmonslayer91 (Oct 10, 2010)

even if you choose not to use them or if you test them and they fail use them for dry goods such as beans rice sugar salt etc etc thats what i use all the lids that i can get as long as they are in good shape


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## Delrio (Mar 11, 2007)

All my lids i bought from ebay years ago and they are from the 80's. No problems having them seal.


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## terri46355 (May 16, 2003)

I inherited my grandmother's lids several years ago and started using them when I ran out of new ones. The dates are 1979-80's and they seal well.


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## Osiris (Jun 9, 2010)

I use a crock pot to keep the lids hot before canning. Set the temp @ 200'. I've used lots of old Kerr lids. 20+ years old. Never had a problem. The hot water brings the rubber back to life in most cases. best to test a couple jars in a HWB and see. But I would go for it. 

I also sterilize my jars in the oven rather then boiling. Less water, less pots. They go in clean so all I have to do is get 'em good and hot (but not too hot) like 220-250 is usually good. It's hotter than boiling so I know they're sterile. 

I got into an argument about that with a dude from another site about canning. Pffft. You do it your way, I'll do it mine.


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## JohnP (Sep 1, 2010)

Regarding sterilizing. Isn't it 180 Â°F which is why they say some meats like chicken should be cooked to an internal temp of 180? 180 kills bacteria. 

Hmmm

wiki "canning"


> commercially canned goods are required to undergo a "botulinum cook" at 121 Â°C (250 Â°F) for 3 minutes, and so rarely cause botulism


wiki "home canning"


> The goal in using a pressure canner is to achieve a "botulinum cook" of 121Â°C for 3 minutes, throughout the entire volume of canned product.


Golden Harvest instructions say 180 Â°F and DO NOT BOIL. Yet they're going to get to 250 Â°F when pressure canning to usda specs?



I haven't re-used any lids yet for canning but I'm saving them for hard times. I do use them for vac sealing and they seal fine even without being warmed to get them soft so that tells me they are re-usable period. IMHO


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## wally (Oct 9, 2007)

Nice score..if it helps you can ship the jars and lids to me and your problem is solved.. Wally


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## Marilyn (Aug 2, 2006)

John P,
I started reusing as a "test" and have been nothing short of amazed at the results - fewer failures than new lids! One failure in 3 seasons. For reuse, I use only perfect lids, scrub each with a toothbrush, and BOIL them for about a minute before simmer.

I wouldn't hesitate to use the old lids mentioned in OP.


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## sammyd (Mar 11, 2007)

we got a whole bunch of the old one piece reusable klik-its (or something like that) still in their boxes.
worked like a charm even reused a few and they worked quite well


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## Paquebot (May 10, 2002)

sammyd said:


> we got a whole bunch of the old one piece reusable klik-its (or something like that) still in their boxes.
> worked like a charm even reused a few and they worked quite well


Haven't seen a Klik-It for years but yet see them almost every day. The design is almost identical to the Classico lids, right down to the same click!

Martin


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## NostalgicGranny (Aug 22, 2007)

I always thought the lids and bands were simmered because you don't want to put cold lids or metal bands on hot jars.


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## JohnP (Sep 1, 2010)

Marilyn said:


> John P,
> I started reusing as a "test" and have been nothing short of amazed at the results - fewer failures than new lids! One failure in 3 seasons. For reuse, I use only perfect lids, scrub each with a toothbrush, and BOIL them for about a minute before simmer.
> 
> I wouldn't hesitate to use the old lids mentioned in OP.


Yeah, I figure they're fine but in this lawsuit happy day and age everyone's afraid and the companies that sell products have no problems with selling more. 
As long as you get them warm, 180-220 to sterilize/soften AND make sure you have them settled into the existing indentation from the first use I think they're fine for a few uses which is why I am saving them. 

Disclaimer: I'm nuts don't listen to me.


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## JohnP (Sep 1, 2010)

My wife's been on a pringle kick lately. Nasty things but the containers are perfect size for storing lids. They are cardboard but foil lined on the inside so they can be washed. Once at least.


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## unregistered65598 (Oct 4, 2010)

good idea for storing them.


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## PixieLou (May 1, 2010)

Gosh - perfect excuse to go out and buy a can of pringles.


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