# What do you think of this CL horse?



## Looking4ewes (Apr 30, 2006)

http://annarbor.craigslist.org/grd/4513642610.html

I thought a Haffie might fit into my homestead well. I am a 50+ yo beginner. 

Thanks for looking.


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## wr (Aug 10, 2003)

Did you notice the part of the ad that says the only vice she has is refusing to move for a rider but only if they are beginners?


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## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

The seller describes her a beginner horse in the title but then says several times not for a real beginner. The owner also states that she was a lesson horse, that's a red flag for me because if she was a good beginner lesson horse she'd be worth her weight in gold, and the trainer wouldn't sell her. 

Are you close enough to go see and ride her? I think that's your best bet.


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## SFM in KY (May 11, 2002)

I have a Haflinger mare, very much like this one. Got her extremely well trained by the Amish, ride and drive both and you can do anything with her but she does need a firm hand. The drafty Haflingers seem to have a bit of the draft disposition ... they will try a little mild disobedience and if that works, they go for a bit more. The "give me an inch and I'll take a mile" mindset. Wouldn't hurt anyone for the world and very steady and sensible but they will take over if you're not a dominant personality.

I love my mare to death and she will probably be one of the very last horses on the farm because she's so versatile and useful ... but I do have the occasional "come to Jesus" meeting with her.


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## rambotex (May 5, 2014)

From an old veteran I would steer clear of that one. Also. if she's 13 Hands at the withers i'll be holding Prayer meeting at the Antioch baptist Church tonight, y'all bring a pie.:lookout:


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## Looking4ewes (Apr 30, 2006)

The horse was used as a lesson horse previously to the current owner. The current owner purchased her as a horse with which to build her confidence but has now outgrown her. The CO was upfront about the horse occasionally refusing a child rider but says I shouldn't have a problem because of my experience training dogs for stock work. I am a firm hand with the dogs and feisty Jersey, but a beginner with horses.

@ramotex - Can you clarify why you would steer clear? I can learn from your reasons why.

I appreciate the feedback. Thanks again.


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## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

Looking4ewes said:


> The horse was used as a lesson horse previously to the current owner. The current owner purchased her as a horse with which to build her confidence but has now outgrown her. The CO was upfront about the horse occasionally refusing a child rider but says I shouldn't have a problem because of my experience training dogs for stock work. I am a firm hand with the dogs and feisty Jersey, but a beginner with horses.
> 
> @ramotex - Can you clarify why you would steer clear? I can learn from your reasons why.
> 
> I appreciate the feedback. Thanks again.


I know the current owner bought her from a lesson program, but my point still applies, no one sells a worth-her-weight-in-gold beginner lesson horse unless it has developed an issue. The current owner has indicated that the issue is the horse will not listen but needs to be forced to do what is asked. If you don't have a good seat, legs, and hands it will be nearly impossible for you to train this problem out of the mare. I don't mean to be harsh but there is a huge (and not just size) difference between training a dog and a horse. The biggest difference is that you are riding _and_ training at the same time, a beginner will not be able to do this correctly. 

It's best to take everything a seller says with a grain of salt, and go try the mare yourself.


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## offthegrid (Aug 11, 2009)

I agree she's not a beginner's horse - she is "beginner safe" in the sense that she's not going to buck you off or bolt away with you, but a good beginner horse will also go forward for a beginner. Nothing is more frustrating for the beginner rider than the horse that gives you the middle hoof and refuses to move, or continues to drift into the middle of the arena.

I have a "beginner safe" horse that is not a beginner horse. My younger daughter can't ride her because she can't anticipate the shortcuts and laziness that will happen if she doesn't *ride* the mare. She's safe, but she needs to know that you will push her into those corners, and you won't let her choose to say no. So, my younger dd gets her to trot for five steps and then the mare quits. My older dd loves the mare, because she's good enough to set the right tone, and anticipate situations where the mare needs to be directed.

I wouldn't say she's a definite "no" but I agree - go ride her. If the owner has to "help" you (telling you when to add leg, or use a crop, or if the owner steps into the ring to follow or lunge the horse along), then you need to pass.

Not sure why the poster above didn't believe the height -- too small or too big? I think she could be 13hh....?

My only other hesitation is that Haflingers are easy keepers. If you intend to keep her on grass, she might have problems -- obesity and laminitis go hand in hand.


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## gracielagata (Jun 24, 2013)

offthegrid said:


> I agree she's not a beginner's horse - she is "beginner safe" in the sense that she's not going to buck you off or bolt away with you, but a good beginner horse will also go forward for a beginner. Nothing is more frustrating for the beginner rider than the horse that gives you the middle hoof and refuses to move, or continues to drift into the middle of the arena.
> 
> I have a "beginner safe" horse that is not a beginner horse. My younger daughter can't ride her because she can't anticipate the shortcuts and laziness that will happen if she doesn't *ride* the mare. She's safe, but she needs to know that you will push her into those corners, and you won't let her choose to say no. So, my younger dd gets her to trot for five steps and then the mare quits. My older dd loves the mare, because she's good enough to set the right tone, and anticipate situations where the mare needs to be directed.
> 
> ...


Off the OP's topic, but I just wanted to say thank you for your description. It finally gave me the way to describe my horse and DH's horse to a T. Beginner safe, not necessarily beginner friendly. My mare *knows* when she has someone onboard who can't stop her misbehaving, so she just goes where she pleases to graze. Sounds like this mare. I have no opinion to add on the OP, though I do like your suggestion of being aware of ways the original owner may help which aren't useful in the end for finding the good match. My beginner DH had a horse he tried out- it was the same thing. She didn't want to work for him, and he felt no good connection to get her to want to, and being a beginner, didn't know how to just push the horse the right way. So they were not a good match. If that makes sense. That owner, she didn't come bug us at all, she let my DH try the beginner safe horse and essentially fail, to see if it was a good match between them or not.


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## wr (Aug 10, 2003)

Looking4ewes said:


> The horse was used as a lesson horse previously to the current owner. The current owner purchased her as a horse with which to build her confidence but has now outgrown her. The CO was upfront about the horse occasionally refusing a child rider but says I shouldn't have a problem because of my experience training dogs for stock work. I am a firm hand with the dogs and feisty Jersey, but a beginner with horses.
> 
> @ramotex - Can you clarify why you would steer clear? I can learn from your reasons why.
> 
> I appreciate the feedback. Thanks again.


Please don't let your cow and dog background lull you into a false sense of security. Dealing with a sulky Jersey is far different than sitting on the back of a 1000 lb horse with a hump in it's back and a whole bunch of attitude. 

You have a long way to go before you can read a horse the same way you can dogs and cattle and it's best for you if you can find a horse that will help you learn.


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## Looking4ewes (Apr 30, 2006)

Thank you for the description between "beginner safe" vs. "beginner horse". Very useful information. 

I will see the horse this afternoon with a trusted horse professional. Leaving the checkbook home. If the horse doesn't move for me, then it is a deal killer. A good match is a must.

@Irish Pixie - you are not being harsh at all, no worries. ;-)


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## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

My youngest had a Quarter Horse as one of her first horses that had come out of a large lesson program and knew all of the tricks. He was dead quiet but you had to really ride him as offthegrid said of her mare... well, her older sister was on her all the time about having a "push button horse" so they decided that big sis would ride him in her next lesson. What happened was epic and is still talked about almost 20 years later- the lesson progressed nicely with big sis having to constantly correct him to stay on the rail but nothing horrible, then the trainer asks for a canter, one lap was fine but on the second he dropped his shoulder in the corner and she came off him in slow motion. She was fine but it knocked the wind out her and she never rode him again or said her sister had a "push button horse." My youngest made riding him *look* easy.


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## Looking4ewes (Apr 30, 2006)

"You have a long way to go before you can read a horse the same way you can dogs and cattle and it's best for you if you can find a horse that will help you learn."

I couldn't agree more. ;-)


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## rambotex (May 5, 2014)

Looking4ewes said:


> The horse was used as a lesson horse previously to the current owner. The current owner purchased her as a horse with which to build her confidence but has now outgrown her. The CO was upfront about the horse occasionally refusing a child rider but says I shouldn't have a problem because of my experience training dogs for stock work. I am a firm hand with the dogs and feisty Jersey, but a beginner with horses.
> 
> @ramotex - Can you clarify why you would steer clear? I can learn from your reasons why.
> 
> I appreciate the feedback. Thanks again.


L4E - I do a poor job of expaining my opinion. it was a direct question and i answered it IMHO. Most horses have their foundation of training done by their 4th year. This horse is much older than that and has developed some habits that again, IMHO, you cannot correct at this point. My suggestion would be to find a QH that is broke without these habits and enjoy the experience from the get go. Also, if you're not going into the Breeding business, (which is an entirely different thread topic) you should find a gelding and you don't have to worry about the mood swings once a month.

With regard to the question of size by one poster: based on that photo, I do not believe that PONY is 52" at the Withers. And, as another Poster mentioned, you really have to stay on top of these small horses hooves, they will founder pretty easy. look for any rings on the hooves when you get there today and the overall condition of them.

Good Luck to you!


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## wr (Aug 10, 2003)

Looking4ewes said:


> The horse was used as a lesson horse previously to the current owner. The current owner purchased her as a horse with which to build her confidence but has now outgrown her. The CO was upfront about the horse occasionally refusing a child rider but says I shouldn't have a problem because of my experience training dogs for stock work. I am a firm hand with the dogs and feisty Jersey, but a beginner with horses.
> 
> @ramotex - Can you clarify why you would steer clear? I can learn from your reasons why.
> 
> I appreciate the feedback. Thanks again.


Please don't let your cow and dog background lull you into a false sense of security. Dealing with a sulky Jersey is far different than sitting on the back of a 1000 lb horse with a hump in it's back and a whole bunch of attitude. 

You have a long way to go before you can read a horse the same way you can dogs and cattle and it's best for you if you can find a horse that will help you learn.


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## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

rambotex said:


> L4E - I do a poor job of expaining my opinion. it was a direct question and i answered it IMHO. Most horses have their foundation of training done by their 4th year. This horse is much older than that and has developed some habits that again, IMHO, you cannot correct at this point. My suggestion would be to find a QH that is broke without these habits and enjoy the experience from the get go. Also, if you're not going into the Breeding business, (which is an entirely different thread topic) you should find a gelding and you don't have to worry about the mood swings once a month.
> 
> With regard to the question of size by one poster: based on that photo, I do not believe that PONY is 52" at the Withers. And, as another Poster mentioned, you really have to stay on top of these small horses hooves, they will founder pretty easy. look for any rings on the hooves when you get there today and the overall condition of them.
> 
> Good Luck to you!


Well, I'll have to disagree with most of your post. 

There are lots of other breeds that will work for a beginner, not just Quarter Horses, in fact it's much better to look at the individual rather than the breed, contrary to popular belief most mares are the exact same horse all month long and if they aren't it's usually a physical problem such as an ovarian cyst that is causing behavior issues, and I've retrained issues such as the mare the OP for almost 40 years. Spoiled horses are the reason most trainers can stay in business.

I do agree that a smaller equine on good grass will develop laminitis sooner rather than later. The adage, "There are two kinds of ponies, those that have foundered and those that haven't foundered yet."

Looking4ewes, if you ask 10 horse people a question you're likely to get 11 different answers.  Read them all and take what you can use.


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## rambotex (May 5, 2014)

And you are certainly entitled to your opinion. I'm partial to QH's because I've been around them all my life. I understand there are many other good breeds of horses. do you think that mare is 13 hands?


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## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

rambotex said:


> And you are certainly entitled to your opinion. I'm partial to QH's because I've been around them all my life. I understand there are many other good breeds of horses. do you think that mare is 13 hands?


She's in the general vicinity of 13 hands, assuming that the rider is 5' 4", and the mare looks stout enough for her barrel to take up a lot of the rider's leg.


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## mrs whodunit (Feb 3, 2012)

From the Craigslist ad


> No bad vises, no rearing,bucking, biting, spooking, she is a steady minded horse, *that does not normally resort to measures to throw a rider off*


 bolding and underlining mine.

They say she is steady but then in the same sentence does not normally resort to measures to throw off a rider??!!

Oh. My . Word.


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## Kris in MI (May 30, 2002)

looking4ewes, please let us know things went when you saw the mare in question today.

I too am leery of why she was sold after being a children's lesson horse, as good ones should never be in need of a home--at least not at 10. The horse I got for my kids was in a therapeutic riding program for 10+ years, and they only culled him from the lesson string at 24 years old because they had to decrease the number of horses they had and he was the oldest (and because I had called and asked if he was for sale; I was the person who originally broke him out as a 3yo, then sold him at age 8 when I married and moved out of state. . . )

Also as several others have mentioned, a beginner horse should not have to be forced to go forward. This should be a horse for you to learn on and enjoy, not constantly be battling from the very beginning of each ride ("will she go or won't she go today?")


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## Looking4ewes (Apr 30, 2006)

Firstly, thanks to all who contributed to this thread. I appreciate your experiences and perspectives.

It was very interesting today when I went to see the horse. The mare appears to be 13 hands, as compared to a 14 hand Haflinger that was on site. The 14 hand animal seemed VERY large to me, as the 13 hand mare seemed just right. I am 5' 4", and the woman who rides the horse is 5' 5". Neither if us seemed too large for it.

The mare was captured and harnessed without incident, led into the barn, and stood firmly untied as it was saddled and bridled. Picked up feet, groomed mane and tail, and examined her without fuss. The horse was lead into the outdoor arena and the rider demonstrated the w/t/c, as well as backing, a stop and an emergency one rein stop. She did some side stepping but it wasn't her forte. The mare has a left hand lead on the cantor, but won't change for the right. At times, the mare will refuse to go into a cantor from the trot, but the rider will insist, and then the mare will make the change. 

The rider took the mare over a tractor tire, a tarp laying, and a large dip in the ground. The rider demonstrated riding without in the reins, maneuvering the horse with legs only. The rider then demonstrated bareback riding on her.

The horse trainer I brought with me, then got on her for evaluation, saying she was very responsive and soft-mouthed. He was impressed with her calmness. He said the young rider was quite gifted.

My turn! One minute on the horse told me how little I know about riding horses! But I was pleased that the mare moved for me without hesitation, albeit, faster than I would have liked perhaps, due to my tenseness. I stayed on for a short walk and trot, and would not dare ask for more.

Conclusion: The mare has a lot of nice qualities. She is well cared for, and she is ridden well and frequently. The horse will test me, as all will, and so if I take this step, I will have to do so with the commitment of riding lessons. I will have to consider this at length.


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## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

Lessons are the absolutely the best way to learn about horses and to ride.


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## Kasota (Nov 25, 2013)

It would be interesting to see how she would behave if she were brought in and you rode her right away rather than after more experienced riders were on her. Sometimes that little bit of time under an experienced rider makes the horse more compliant. She might be less compliant with out that. I've seen that with more than one horse. 

I personally find lazy horses a bit of a pain.


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## fellini123 (Feb 2, 2003)

Interesting reading. I got a retired lesson horse, he was retired at 15 not because of him, but because the person giving the lessons quit. He is great, dont have to worry about him going.......do have to worry about him going to fast!! LOL

The first time I rode hiim I said trot and he took off! His cantor is much smoother than his trot, go ahead ask how I know. But now we are used to it and he does what I say. He certainly knows his leads and how and when to change them. I'm also sure there are times when he is saying "I wish this rider would learn!"

Whatever you decide have fun!!

Alice in Virginia


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## dizzy (Jun 25, 2013)

She sounds like a typical haffy to me.


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## oregon woodsmok (Dec 19, 2010)

OP, what I would suggest for you is not a lesson horse, but what the local horseman in my area call a "husband horse".

That's a horse that your non-horseman husband can get on for a nice long ride and the horse will bring him home completely safe and sound and not frightened or intimidated.

That's a horse that won't test you and will let you learn your controls without getting upset with you. If you ask correctly, the horse will do it without protest. If you don't ask right, the horse will try to figure out what you want, but maybe give you a puzzled look to let you know you've made a mistake.

Or, if you can find a good "mountain horse". That's a horse that will take you up into the roughest, meanest, steepest mountains and bring you home safe. A good mountain horse costs some money, though.


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## oregon woodsmok (Dec 19, 2010)

Adding: I stay away from lesson horses. Even if the temperament is tolerant, they have been badly ridden much too often and that's how horses learn bad habits and get insensitive mouths and sides.

Lesson horses are sometimes overworked and can have soundness issues just from too much hard use.

Riding a horse in an arena tells you nothing unless you intend to never ever ride any place but in an arena. You have to take the horse out on the trails, bring him home and then turn around immediately and ask him to go out gain.


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## Joshie (Dec 8, 2008)

Looking4ewes said:


> The horse was used as a lesson horse previously to the current owner. The current owner purchased her as a horse with which to build her confidence but has now outgrown her. The CO was upfront about the horse occasionally refusing a child rider but says I shouldn't have a problem because of my experience training dogs for stock work. I am a firm hand with the dogs and feisty Jersey, but a beginner with horses.


Have you had any training at all or spent much time around horses? If not, I think it is way too early to think about getting a horse. I think anybody considering horse ownership should take lessons for at least six months with a good trainer (not one of those trainers who teaches somebody to ride barrels in six weeks. 

Several years ago I just missed getting an experienced, papered older stock Halfie. A couple spent tons of money getting their horse crazy teenaged daughter a horse. They owned a small organic farm and figured the horse would do the double duty of being their daughter's horse and provide a good source of manure. They wanted the horse off their property less than a week of owning it. 

The couple had had the horse shipped from hundreds of miles away and wanted the thing off their property ASAP. There was absolute nothing wrong with the horse. The girl for whom the horse was purchased had never spent much time around them. She didn't have any experience and hadn't had any lessons. She was in love with the thought of horses and horse ownership. 

Some sellers will say just about anything to sell a horse. I fear this seller is misleading you into thinking dog, cattle and horse training are anything alike. Heck, horse and donkey training are different and they're both equines. 

I strongly believe that an inexperienced first-time owner should go shopping with their trainer. It is so, so easy to fall in love with a pretty face. Pretty faces don't make good horses. Our trainer picked out our Joshua. He brought him home to his farm before we ever saw him. He knew us and what we needed so got the horse best for us. Funny thing was that Joshie was a young and beautiful boy. While young horses are rarely good for inexperienced owners but our boy was a perfect match. If you purchase this horse I am afraid you will regret it but it sort of sounds like you've made up your mind. 

Good luck!


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## offthegrid (Aug 11, 2009)

I think she sounds quite nice - also agree, a typical Haffie. But for a beginner rider, I'd definitely go for the lazy one. You can learn to be more assertive (especially if you take lessons by a trainer on your own horse, and/or have the trainer school your horse from time to time), but being afraid to ride is something very difficult to get over.

If you otherwise like this mare, and have appropriate facilities -- which might include a companion horse....do you have one? -- I might buy her.

As for taking lessons before owner....sure, in an ideal world, we'd all be experts before doing anything. But in a real world, there are often times that this could never work for one reason or another. I will say that I have become a MUCH better rider since giving up lessons on "lesson horses". I might not be a great rider of all horses, but I am a competent rider on MY horses. Not only do I know "how to ride" each of them, but they are also not being ridden badly by other riders (which is just how it has to be in a lesson program). And, because they are in my backyard, I have to interact with them multiple times a day, even on days I don't ride. 

The key to success, however, is working with a trainer at home. This is the first year that I am not taking weekly lessons - but my kids still are - at our barn. Horses that don't get worked tend to be more difficult to ride, and the longer you let them be difficult, the worse they get until no one wants to ride them. Plus, I ride harder and better with a trainer pushing me too. And if you enjoy your trainer, it's fun.

If you have a good trainer, and the trainer thinks the horse is a good match for you - go for it.


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## Looking4ewes (Apr 30, 2006)

I had wrote a long post this morning thanking everyone for their input, that although the CL Haffie had many good qualities, but that I was taking the time to think carefully about it and that I wouldn't be swayed by a pretty face, etc..... Lost it all somehow. Went to see another Haffie today and FELL IN LOVE AND BOUGHT HIM ON THE SPOT! Gee whiz, I feel as giddy as a 9 yo girl. Crap, I got the Haffie fever BAD! You had warned me, but did I listen??? ;-P

Sonny is an 8 yo gelding, 13 hh, broke to drive by my trainer as coming 3 yo. Spent several years with the Amish but they didn't like him because he was too slow for their needs. Sonny was sold to a family friend of my trainer's, who used him lightly for harness work. My trainer has known this horse for a long time and has always like him much.

Upon meeting Sonny, I connected immediately with him. I couldn't take my hands off of him. I wanted to brush him, lead him around, pick up his feet, fuss on him, and jump on his back and go! I restrained myself, but I was quite taken aback by my feelings. Cricket, the CL horse, didn't inspire me at all. I actually was feeling quite ambivalent about her. We led Sonny around the grounds, harnessed him up and did some ground driving. Then the trainer hooked on a rein and rode Sonny around a bit, though the horse isn't yet broke to it. Then I got on his back and was lead around. It was slow and smooth and it felt quite comfortable. Sonny was very calm and steady, even though there was a stupid, barking dog running about the whole time. I feel like Sonny was much more accommodating than the CL horse. More honest, more willing, and had a better personality. I abandoned my usual caution and left a deposit.

Sonny will be delivered directly to the trainer's for a month of riding work. Fortunately, he will be only 5 miles down the road, so I will see him frequently.


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## Joshie (Dec 8, 2008)

Immediately falling in love is the danger in going to see a horse. LOL It sounds, though, that your trainer knows you and the horse so that makes me feel better about you getting Sonny. 

Even horses can accidently kill a person so getting the wrong horse is really dangerous. Our trainer fell while training his great and very well broke horse and was nearly killed. If he and his mare hadn't had a great relationship and she wasn't paying attention she would have stepped on his neck or chest. As it was, he got run over by the cart and his shoulder/arm was hurt. Things happen. 

It sounds as if Sonny will be a good fit. Please keep in mind that he won't be trained in one month. How much training have you had? Will you and your trainer have an ongoing relationship? I hope he can continue to work with you to train both of you. Does Sonny do well alone? He might become good friends with your ewes. 

It sounds as if your new guy has a good head on his shoulders. While you quickly fell in love it does sound as if you didn't just go with the first pretty face you saw. While Haffies tend to be short they can accommodate larger people. A friend of mine is somewhere around 5'8" and weighs around 170 to 180 lbs she fits very well on hers. Their wide bodies ride well with taller people. 

I am happy you found Sonny. Congratulations!


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## dizzy (Jun 25, 2013)

Having that immediate connection can be both a good and bad thing. But since it sounds like you have a good trainer that knows what they're doing, I think it will probably work out OK. Congrats.


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## oregon woodsmok (Dec 19, 2010)

I always started my saddle horses in the cart and harness. By the time they were old enough to ride, they were rock solid in traffic, had been there done that, and switching them over to a saddle was easy as could be.

If your new horse is solid in the cart, he will be solid to ride very quickly. He already direct reins and knows voice commands. He should already use his hindquarters well.

Was he out with the cart on a regular basis? Was he driven on the roads?

I like it when a horse picks me. OP, remember to be firm. Rules must be enforced, just like training a difficult dog. Tell him, "It's done this way because I say so", and the horse will be more confident for you.


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## mulemom (Feb 17, 2013)

LookingforEwes-If at all possible don't just visit. Give your trainer time to do what he/she considers necessary then push to start riding with his/her supervision. Make sure that you learn what the trainer is teaching your horse so that you can keep your signals to him he same as the trainer's. That will keep the horse's confusion to a minimum and your satisfaction to the maximum. Congratulations and good luck.


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## GrannyCarol (Mar 23, 2005)

I'm glad you have a trainer nearby, that your trainer has worked with Sonny and will be working with you and him. That's a great way to get started. Definitely you should love your horse, they are a lot of work and money, so have one you really think is worth it! 

Sounds like a very reasonable way to get started, now enjoy!


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## oregon woodsmok (Dec 19, 2010)

I thought of this thread today. My neighbor was giving a riding lesson and I watched a child lean way forward, when throw her whole body backwards as hard as she could, jerking on the horse's mouth with her full strength and all her body weight.

The instructor sat there and watched her do it. I saw her do it three times. I have not the foggiest notion what the child was trying to get the horse to do. It involved a lot of hard serious kicking at the horse's sides.

I felt sorry for the horse, but I was also thinking that the poor horse would be very difficult to get back to the point where he was ride-able with any sort of normal riding method.

I've seen a lot of lesson horses treated that way, and that is why I would never buy one and I don't recommend that anyone else ever buy one. That horse's mouth and sides were ruined and might never be repairable. His mind had been deadened and he wouldn't be any fun to try to work with.

The poor thing.


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## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

oregon woodsmok said:


> I thought of this thread today. My neighbor was giving a riding lesson and I watched a child lean way forward, when throw her whole body backwards as hard as she could, jerking on the horse's mouth with her full strength and all her body weight.
> 
> The instructor sat there and watched her do it. I saw her do it three times. I have not the foggiest notion what the child was trying to get the horse to do. It involved a lot of hard serious kicking at the horse's sides.
> 
> ...


That kid would have been kicked out of my lesson program the second time that happened, and very strongly verbally warned the first time, and most of the trainers I know wouldn't have put up with that behavior either. If you think that's the norm than you have only seen very very poor trainers.


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## Looking4ewes (Apr 30, 2006)

I just wanted to update you all regarding Sonny and me. So far, he has been a great teacher, though no babysitter. The first time he spooked and I fell off HARD, I found a riding instructor close by, where I trailer Sonny to train in an arena weekly. The instruction has been invaluable, though I am frustrated at how long it takes me to learn, and at how awkward I still feel in the saddle. But we both are making progress and I feel fairly comfortable riding him around the farm, though at a walk only. He gets ridden about 3x a week. 

Sonny is much better driving than riding, and I still hitch him up occassionally. I have already collected several vehicles for him to pull, including a stone boat, 2-wheeled cart, sleigh, and a small buckboard wagon. I could blow a small fortune on the horse-drawn implements I would love to have. Items that sound like fun include: 4 wheeled buggy, pioneer cart, and one-horse sickle bar mower.

Sonny and I are learning each other and becoming friends. He is far from perfect. He will test me at times, and has unseated me 2 more times by spooking. But we both improve and I know in time, with more experience and instruction, and many miles in the saddle, he will become the horse I want him to be.


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## offthegrid (Aug 11, 2009)

Looking4ewes said:


> I just wanted to update you all regarding Sonny and me. So far, he has been a great teacher, though no babysitter. The first time he spooked and I fell off HARD, I found a riding instructor close by, where I trailer Sonny to train in an arena weekly. The instruction has been invaluable, though I am frustrated at how long it takes me to learn, and at how awkward I still feel in the saddle. But we both are making progress and I feel fairly comfortable riding him around the farm, though at a walk only. He gets ridden about 3x a week.
> 
> Sonny is much better driving than riding, and I still hitch him up occassionally. I have already collected several vehicles for him to pull, including a stone boat, 2-wheeled cart, sleigh, and a small buckboard wagon. I could blow a small fortune on the horse-drawn implements I would love to have. Items that sound like fun include: 4 wheeled buggy, pioneer cart, and one-horse sickle bar mower.
> 
> Sonny and I are learning each other and becoming friends. He is far from perfect. He will test me at times, and has unseated me 2 more times by spooking. But we both improve and I know in time, with more experience and instruction, and many miles in the saddle, he will become the horse I want him to be.


Glad things are going well so far!

I just wanted to comment on this though -- "*and has unseated me 2 more times by spooking*" -- it's not the horse's fault that you fell off.  I'm not trying to be mean, but I tell my kids this too -- they are alive, and they are allowed to move.  And things scare them, just like they scare us (my 12 year old fell off my mare last month when the mare "spooked" - for lack of a better term - to get away from one of those big bomber flies.) 

As I told her, it's the rider's job to a) look out for danger; b) become a stronger rider so that a spook won't cause us to fall; and c) realize that all riders fall off at some point, and it's most often our own fault.  

I'm sure you know this, but your wording "_he has unseated me_" as opposed to "_I fell off_" reminded me of my kids. My daughter really did blame my mare for spooking, but it's not really the horse's fault that she fell off. Some horses might think about their rider more than others, but when something bad happens, I think most of them only think about themselves. 

How about a picture??


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## Looking4ewes (Apr 30, 2006)

OTG, well, yes and no. If he hadn't spooked, I wouldn't have fallen off. However, my unbalanced seat led to my dismounting. Thank heavens' he is only 13 hands. Not far to fall. ;-)


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## offthegrid (Aug 11, 2009)

Looking4ewes said:


> OTG, well, yes and no. If he hadn't spooked, I wouldn't have fallen off. However, my unbalanced seat led to my dismounting. Thank heavens' he is only 13 hands. Not far to fall. ;-)


Well, yes, of course the reason you fell was because the horse spooked. But all horses spook; so you can't (usually) blame that on the horse. If you had said "he bucked me off" that would be different - in that case I might assign some blame to the horse, depending on the situation.

But in the case of a spook - if the rider comes off, it's pretty much the riders fault (or at least, I don't really blame the horse). That falls into the category of "riding is potentially dangerous".... 

Glad you didn't get hurt, though. The last time I fell off when my mare spooked I was telling her she was a "big fat faker" because she was acting nervous about something (still no idea what). The next thing I knew, I was on the ground. I never even had a chance to think about trying to hold on...she just disappeared from underneath me like in a cartoon.


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## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

offthegrid said:


> Glad you didn't get hurt, though. The last time I fell off when my mare spooked I was telling her she was a "big fat faker" because she was acting nervous about something (still no idea what). The next thing I knew, I was on the ground. I never even had a chance to think about trying to hold on...she just disappeared from underneath me like in a cartoon.


Ah, horse teleportation. I understand completely.


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## dizzy (Jun 25, 2013)

Misty spooked for me today-at a pile of manure! And in general, she was being a turd. We were in a game show and she was spooky the whole time we were there. When I started getting vertigo attacks I figured enough is enough. I rode her for a bit more to be sure she was listening to me, then dismounted and left. Vertigo attacks and a spooky horse are not a good combination.


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