# School bullies in 3rd grade!



## Still Learning (Dec 5, 2006)

Hi everyone,

Please bear with me -- this will probably be more of a rant than anything but I've just got to release some steam. :flame: 

My son is 8 and in 3rd grade at the local public school. I had really planned on homeschooling him but (against my better judgment) at the last minute decided we'd try out the local school here since we'd just moved to the area. I was really hoping for a different experience than we'd had in the city PS system... and that hasn't happened so far.

Last week DS came home upset because a group of 5 boys in his classroom was pushing him & another boy down on the ground. My DS came home with a scratch on his face & grass stained covered pants. Also, 1 of these 5 boys called my son a "retard" (which he is not, he's a typical boy but that's beside the point). 

I went to the teacher the next day (Friday) and she was pretty snippy with me. She said that the name calling boy was "the best boy you could ask for" in her class and she seemed surprised that he would do such. She said that she did see all the boys "rough housing" and she told them to stop. I asked her to follow-up because my son has enough issues with attention in the classroom then to have to worry about this group of 5 boys bullying him. DS is very sensitive and wants these boys to be friends with him, it's sad for me to just watch him but so upset about it. I've heard nothing from the teacher about what happened or any resolution...

Then today. I pick DS up from school and he tells me that the name caller called him a "jerk" in class today. And another one in the group said that he knew where we lived and he knew DS's last name -- he was going to come here and beat up my son. I called the teacher but haven't heard back yet. Next step is the principal I guess. 

I'm furious. I'm frustrated. I already didn't have much confidence in the PS system around here in general... but now, I don't know what to think. I see my son hurting and that makes me angry. Kids these days are just mean but that's not okay. And in 3rd grade?!?? :nono: 

~Ashley


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## cindyc (Nov 12, 2005)

Sorry he is having such a rough time. I really am. We are also in middle tn, but we homeschool, so I don't really have much experience with the ps system. Hope you get it worked out. 

Cindyc.

PS FWIW, this area is AMAZING for homeschoolers. Homeschooling laws are very easy. Homeschooling kids can do anything that kids in a ps can do, from music, to sports, to spelling bees and math competitions, to upper level AP classes and lab sciences (when that comes). The tutorials and co-ops around here are wonderful, and the support groups and field trip/socialization groups are top notch. They do tend to be heavily religious/christian/conservative tho... However, I am christian, but not very conservative, and I have not had trouble with being excluded here. 

I am not trying to pursuade you at all, but if you ever decided you want to homeschool, you couldn't be in a better area to do it. I mention it b/c you say you don't have much faith in the system, not to push anything. This is a good place to explore alternatives if you feel you need to.


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## Mid Tn Mama (May 11, 2002)

Assure your son that no boy is going to be coming to your house to beat him up--that you won't allow that.

Next, tell him that kids who call names should be ignored because they are trying to get a rise out of him. Tell him to find a friend and stick like glue to him because loners, like lone animals, get singled out.

A good way to think of it is to say, "Don't give your Power away to others. Keep your power by not losing your cool." Sometimes a bully can goad a good kid into a fight. Both end up in trouble, so it's good to learn self control.

Ask him if some game was being played by the group just before the altercation. Sometimes, the name calling is an extension of what they are playing (cops and robbers, for instance).

It's a good life lesson to teach kids to accept that not everyone will like them, and that some kids are just mean--stay away from them! The teacher cannot see everything that 24 kids are doing at the same moment outside. 

By the way, this is common activity for third and fourth grade boys. Let him learn to deal with it (as long as it isn't physical) there maybe long term benefits.

I wanted to add that a child who has a good record of honesty will be believed by the teacher more. I tell my own children, behave so that when you have an issue or problem, it will be believed.


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## Still Learning (Dec 5, 2006)

Thanks Cindy! I appreciate you taking the time to respond. Yes, it looks like we will join the homeschool crowd very soon. :dance: I haven't mentioned it to DS yet but my husband & I both agree that he (we) need to get away from the PS system. It's not working for us. I'm sure my in-laws will not be happy campers... but that's how it goes I guess.  And I do feel bad for the other little boys who is picked on -- he has no friends in class and all the boys are ugly to him. I hope it gets better for him. I'm going to stay in touch with his mom.


Followup to above post --> I just got off the phone with DS's teacher. She said that she would talk to the boys again tomorrow. She listened to my ranting more, then offered to talk to the boys again just to pacify me, I think. I will probably go to the principal tomorrow AM just to let him know what's going on and to maybe help the little boy in class that the bullies target too. Either way, we are outta there! :walk: 

Now time to research curriculums again... :nerd: and find an umbrella school; and join HSLDA. Oh, and it's almost turkey cooking time! 


~Ashley


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## Still Learning (Dec 5, 2006)

Thanks Mid TN Mama for your response. I appreciate it!

Yes, I do tell him that no-one will ever be allowed to come here and start trouble -- and he knows they just say that to get him upset. DS is pretty sensitive for a boy and he's been an easy target since 1st grade I guess. He tries to hide his frustration/anger/etc. but I'm sure these boys can still tell he's upset. I've always told him that if kids can tell he's mad then they're happy. He does a good job of ignoring them or just walking away. I guess it's just never been physical or threatening before... maybe that part just through him off. Either way, it's not healthy nor do I feel that it can help him later on.

The reason they targeted my son was because he became (and was standing up for) the loner in the class. This little boy has no friends and the boys in class talk mean about him. I guess that makes my son an easier target maybe. 

~Ashley


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## cindyc (Nov 12, 2005)

New At This said:


> Thanks Cindy! I appreciate you taking the time to respond. Yes, it looks like we will join the homeschool crowd very soon. :dance: I haven't mentioned it to DS yet but my husband & I both agree that he (we) need to get away from the PS system. It's not working for us. I'm sure my in-laws will not be happy campers... but that's how it goes I guess.  And I do feel bad for the other little boys who is picked on -- he has no friends in class and all the boys are ugly to him. I hope it gets better for him. I'm going to stay in touch with his mom.
> 
> 
> Followup to above post --> I just got off the phone with DS's teacher. She said that she would talk to the boys again tomorrow. She listened to my ranting more, then offered to talk to the boys again just to pacify me, I think. I will probably go to the principal tomorrow AM just to let him know what's going on and to maybe help the little boy in class that the bullies target too. Either way, we are outta there! :walk:
> ...


You should also check out middle tn home educators association, and tennessee home educators association. They will help you find the right activities in your area if you so desire.  Glad you feel good about your decision. As for umbrella schools, I use Aaron Academy BTW... They are very on the ball over there, and they have sports teams too if you are interested in that. 

Good luck!
Cindyc.


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## crtreedude (Jun 14, 2006)

Pretty much the same stuff from every generation - it isn't just this generation. I dealt with it, and I dealt with it with our son, who is now 31.

Our son had the same experience. I immediately went to the principal who was pretty worthless - he gave the normal "boys will be boys, etc, etc" He also said there wasn't anything he could do.

I guess I got pretty angry at that point and said "If the little creep so much as looks at my son wrong one more time, you and his parents will be talking to a lawyer and I suspect, given how many people had to deal with bullies growing up, you can expect to lose in a civil case."

The next day the bully kept an entire class room between himself and my son.

Sometimes the officials and the parents have to be reminded that you DO have something you can do. There isn't much in criminal law you can do, but in Civil - mental anguish can bring in pretty big penalties.

I personally am not in favor of lawsuits, but if it is the only way of making it safe for kids in school, I am not against them either.

just my dos colones


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## PyroDon (Jul 30, 2006)

I know Im a terrible person but teach your boy some wrist locks .
I'd back my kid 110% .
Now keep in mind these are school kids everytime momma complains to the teacher they feel more justified in picking on your boy. It may not be the politicly correct thing to do but if it was my kid Id tell him the next time one threatened him or push him to turn around and go full out off . If they discover he'll fight back they will back off . Yeah he might well get suspended but they will soon learn to let him alone. he might even get beat up but they will know he's willing defend himself and back off. 
Im not advocating him become a bully but theres nothing wrong with him defending himself . one blood nose will normally put an end to a bully .


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## Vashti (Dec 22, 2006)

I understand completely. My dd has gone through this now for several years in in the public school system here. As soon as our custody case is over (presuming I win) I plan on homeschooling her. She's had such a rough time of it. The school keeps telling me it's just the age the girls are at right now, they're all catty to each other, and can't seem to keep friends for long. I understand those things completely, but this has gone on too long for it to be a "stage" and the same girls are doing the same mean things. They slap her, push her down and into lockers, steal her belongings and say the meanest things possible. She's continually suffering. After what is going on in other schools with bullying (Like Columbine) you'd think they'd be more vigilant against it! 

On the other hand, my DS went through it a bit when he was younger, and we did something similar to Pyrodon. We didn't encourage him to be physical, but we gave him some great combacks to use in conversation. When he was able to stand up and speak out against the bullies, letting everyone in the room/playground know that not only was he not willing to take they're tormenting, but that he thought it made them look small...the bullying stopped. Those other boys hated being made to look foolish by my boy. 

Unfortunately, these tactics aren't working for my daughter, just causing the other girls to become more incensed. So, right now we're focusing on inner strength and self affirming exercizes. This is working well, especially with art.

I hope that things improve for your son, whether through home schooling, or public. I do know that your position will either have to be made clear to the school board, the bully or his/her parents in order for something to change there. Sometimes, even with threats of civil suits, parents especially will not relent, or accept that their child may be doing something wrong. Putting on their shoes: it's very hard to admit that your child may be in the wrong, meaning that you have taught them something inapropriate, or allowed them to behave in a way that is unacceptable.


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## crtreedude (Jun 14, 2006)

I don't know the legality of this but it is just a thought. Many of the music things like IPod have a record feature. Have your son or daughter record the abuse. Then, use THAT with the officials. The issue usually is that the Bullies will deny it.

Also, if the recording gets sent to their parents if they have any kind of parents at all, they will be in very deep trouble.

And of course, the bullies will never know when they will be recorded again - which adds a nice level of uncertainity to their lives.


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## Use Less (Nov 8, 2007)

I utterly sympathize with your child. It is very difficult to be on the outside. No use telling him words won't hurt, because they DO. Your son will get in trouble if he fights, and others are as likely to say he started it. Which would be true if he was reacting to verbal assaults by throwing the first punch. I am recently retired from 35 yrs.public school, and can tell you that good teachers set the rules and the atmosphere in there rooms. Bad ones don't see what is going on, & don't know who to be the adult in charge. REALLY bad ones see the bright, cute, popular ones as always being "good kids" and go along with or get involved in putting down the less so. A good teacher starts the year with a lot of frank talk, daily for a month, and repeated regularly, about the natural feelings and inclinations of kids the particular age, what is allowed & what isn't. They post four or five simple classroom rules and apply them consistently to all. It usually doesn't help or work for the teacher to get involved in figuring out after the fact who did what to whom, so in a tough class, even gr.3, he/she can state from the beginning that the consequences for various transgressions will be applied to the entire class, but that rewards for acceptable behavior, (such as free time, listening to music, playing games or extra recess), will also apply to all. Then make it seem possible to earn these, by having a set plan of warnings, points, checkmarks for all to see the group's progress. Saying at about 1030AM, with true regret, "I'm so sorry, I thought I might have heard some language that sounded like bullying. Let's all remember that blah-blah-blah." Best not to look at the offender, and if someone's name is called out, first remind that hands should be raised before speaking,so you put that one in his/her place, and no, that wasn't the person you noticed, which gives them all something to chew on. Sue


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## Still Learning (Dec 5, 2006)

Thank you all for your responses and suggestions. I really, really appreciate it! 

My mom is coming up today to sit with the other 3 kiddos so I can go to the school before dismissal. I will probably just sign my DS out early and go straight to the principal. DS seemed anxious when I dropped him off this morning so I'm hoping everything goes okay. I over emphasized the fact that he *has* to tell the teacher when these boys say or do anything out of line. He says that they'll beat him up for telling -- and that the teacher doesn't like tattle tellers. I insisted that he does tell, so we'll see.

After talking to the teacher on the phone yesterday afternoon I have zero confidence that she will handle anything. It's almost like I'm being petty to her by standing up for my DS, like I'm the bad one. She's been a teacher at this particular school for 30+ years so I'm sure she's seen it all but that doesn't make it okay. But if I don't stand up for him, then who will??

And slight intimidation from me doesn't work with these kids either. I went Friday to eat lunch with my DS at school. My DD who is 4 years old came along. One of the bully boys ended up making fun of my DD by squinting his eyes really tight & pulling his eyes with his fingers on the sides and calling her Chinese (she's not Chinese but does have beautiful almond shaped eyes -- and does it matter anyways?!?). I very politely asked him what he was talking about, to which he replied "uggghhh, (long pause here...)...this movie about Chinese people". So that didn't work. He's just a little boy that needs to be jerked up and set straight I guess. :flame: 

Anyways, time to jump off here and get some cleaning done. Thanks again for your stories & advice. I'll keep you guys updated. 

~Ashley


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## ovsfarm (Jan 14, 2003)

I'll throw in my .02 here. We homeschool and I think it is an excellent educational choice. However, if your only reason for pulling your child from PS is due to socialization problems and not educational or religious ones, I fear you will be disappointed. Bullies are everywhere. My dd had to learn to stand up to them at church, of all places! I agree strongly that HS can be a sanctuary where children can learn in a protected atmosphere where they can concentrate on learning instead of fearing for their personal safety, but once a child is old enough, they do need to learn how to handle bullies by themselves. We Mommies cannot be everywhere all the time. If your son will be doing soccer, scouts, or any other "kid clubs", he will be exposed to the same issues, and perhaps even the same children. I would strongly encourage you to enroll him in a good self defense class as a key part of his homeschool education, and begin to help him understand his rights to personal safety and his responsibility to helping those weaker than himself.

I don't go along with any of the PC thought about backing down, pacifying the situation to the point of allowing yourself to be struck, etc. A while back there was a great thread here about wolves, sheep, and sheepdogs. You have to choose whether to raise your child to be a sheep or a sheepdog who will be able to protect himself and others. (By the way, sheep are not helpless, we raise them--I know first hand--but they do occasionally need a dog around to do that for which they are just not equipped.) You need to help your son to see that if the other boys are a pack of wolves, then they are not worthy of his friendship. He needs to be strong in himself, to make a fun life for himself, and that will attract friends. Everyone wants to be around someone who is fun and interesting. Few choose to befriend those who are weak and needy (as he saw with the other little boy's situation). That's not fair, but that's life. It sounds like your boy has the potential to be someone great who can reach out to others, but just needs to develop a solid, safe foundation for himself to stand on, and then let his light shine!


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## fishhead (Jul 19, 2006)

If he were my son I would tell the next time someone calls him a name just to answer "so" and let it slide. No matter what they say the answer is "so". There are ways of deflecting that kind of verbal bullying and your son can learn to feel strong in the face of it if you give him the tools. He can come through it with more confidence and that's a valuable lesson.

On the matter of physical bullying I would put a stop to it ASAP and if the teacher doesn't stop it go over her head and the head of the next person and the head of the next person....... There is NO excuse for a child not to feel safe going to school and there is NO excuse for a teacher or principal to look the other way.


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## Tricky Grama (Oct 7, 2006)

I would not let this go on another minute. I'm afraid, tho, that I would have acted rashly if that kid had made fun of my 4 yr old in front of me like that! I'm sure I would have jerked him into the principals office right then & there.

I think you need to contact the school EVERY day to ensure they know you will keep on top of this. It's actually for the good of the bully, too-they cannot be allowed to continue-they won't grow into upstanding adults if they are let to continue.

I would demand to know what was going to be done to ensure the safety of all the kids, not just my own child.

Be sure they know you'll contact the autorities if it continues.

Patty


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## matt633 (Apr 11, 2007)

ovsfarm said:


> I'll throw in my .02 here. We homeschool and I think it is an excellent educational choice. However, if your only reason for pulling your child from PS is due to socialization problems and not educational or religious ones, I fear you will be disappointed. Bullies are everywhere. My dd had to learn to stand up to them at church, of all places! I agree strongly that HS can be a sanctuary where children can learn in a protected atmosphere where they can concentrate on learning instead of fearing for their personal safety, but once a child is old enough, they do need to learn how to handle bullies by themselves. We Mommies cannot be everywhere all the time. If your son will be doing soccer, scouts, or any other "kid clubs", he will be exposed to the same issues, and perhaps even the same children. I would strongly encourage you to enroll him in a good self defense class as a key part of his homeschool education, and begin to help him understand his rights to personal safety and his responsibility to helping those weaker than himself.
> 
> I don't go along with any of the PC thought about backing down, pacifying the situation to the point of allowing yourself to be struck, etc. A while back there was a great thread here about wolves, sheep, and sheepdogs. You have to choose whether to raise your child to be a sheep or a sheepdog who will be able to protect himself and others. (By the way, sheep are not helpless, we raise them--I know first hand--but they do occasionally need a dog around to do that for which they are just not equipped.) You need to help your son to see that if the other boys are a pack of wolves, then they are not worthy of his friendship. He needs to be strong in himself, to make a fun life for himself, and that will attract friends. Everyone wants to be around someone who is fun and interesting. Few choose to befriend those who are weak and needy (as he saw with the other little boy's situation). That's not fair, but that's life. It sounds like your boy has the potential to be someone great who can reach out to others, but just needs to develop a solid, safe foundation for himself to stand on, and then let his light shine!


I COMPLETELY agree. I also have to agree with Pyro. Even at that age, a boy needs to establish himself. My son is 7 now, and I can't imagine fighting a battle for him (not against a child at least!). If it is verbal abuse, he knows to blow them off...or will often just say something really casually that lets them know he is above them. If it is physical, he isn't going down without a fight...and the only time I have even seen him go DOWN is with an eleven year old. And you know what, he started it with that eleven year old and I let the kid knock him on the ground before I broke it up (he needed to learn that he couldn't bully, either!). I FIRMLY believe that you begin raising a man around 5. I was wise enough to listen to my husband when he told me not to baby him, to let him work out his own problems, and to know what "is worth fighting for".

Now before you think I have thrown my son to the wolves and expect him to take care of himself, you might know that I homeschool, I only leave my kids with my mom, or my husband, and I can be extremely protective and defensive of my kids. BUT, them being homeschooled has made me focus even more on making an effort to teach them to work out problems, to be confident and not let others use, abuse, or intimidate them, and most of all "to be at peace (as much as possible) with all people". I want to give them practice while I am still standing on the sidelines, keeping an eye on things, so that I will be assured when they are older and I can't always be there! I think if we, as parents, support them at home, teaching them and helping them in making good choices, we love them, and we give them the stability and security to "be in this world and not of it", we will produce children that can deal with situations in a productive manner. And, BTW...sometimes productive is, "Well mom, I told him IF he hit me again, I was going to fight back.....". (Hey, that kid NEVER bullied my son again, and they have since become good friends. :hobbyhors )

By the way, I am not telling you to tell your son to beat these boys up. But, like ovsfarm....I don't think pulling him out of school is necessarily the solution (even though I am very PRO-hsing!). I would just make sure it isn't your sole reason for wanting to. It would make it very hard for him to return if you decided to put him back in school later, too...so be sure of your decision.

Good luck with your decision, Rachael


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