# Where in the USA / Canada?



## dolmen (Jun 17, 2008)

Hi everyone,

We are from Ireland, but want a homestead, its impossible for ordinary folks to buy anything over here so we're looking at across the big pond.

Not having any contacts over there makes it very difficult to learn about all the different rules and regulations.

Anyhow we would like a home that is private, needing very little work with land + lots of woods and good water supply + either river or lake access. You get the pic 

We can't stand mossies, they just devour us, we want seasons, but a long summer would be nice, not too hot, we like living outdoors! 

Can the good folks on here help narrow down where we should be looking? any advice / help we would be grateful for.

Cheers


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## hillsidedigger (Sep 19, 2006)

What are 'mossies'?

The Southern Appalachian area seems to fit your description. Some areas are much less expensive than other areas.


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## dolmen (Jun 17, 2008)

hillsidedigger said:


> What are 'mossies'?


Mosquito  

Cheers


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## Macybaby (Jun 16, 2006)

You want to be in woods, with a river or lake, and NO mosquitoes?

Not sure if that's possible . . . (big grin).


Cathy


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## April (Nov 28, 2006)

I would think the Washington/Oregon area would be the closest to what you're after, but I don't have any hard evidence for that.

One thing about the mosquitos, though - they'll only bother you horribly the first year. After that it's not so bad. 

I transplanted my British husband right into command central for mosquitos - the Midwest. The first year he was here he was absolutely miserable. After that, not so bad.

-April


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## ma1bob (Dec 12, 2006)

You may want to look at Newfoundland, Canada. Excellent prices and you will find it easy to move there from an EU country.

Cheers

Bob


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## dolmen (Jun 17, 2008)

Macybaby said:


> You want to be in woods, with a river or lake, and NO mosquitoes?
> 
> Not sure if that's possible . . . (big grin).
> 
> ...



 worth a punt

Cheers


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## Ross (May 9, 2002)

I worked off a barge building septic systems and houses on the Rideau Lake/canal system in E Ontario (Canada) helping a friend when he ran short of reliable help. Mosquitos are a non issue except in the stagnant bays........ where they carry off small children. With careful shopping you could get a sweet homestead on a maintained boating channel (international heritage designation) . The "pretty" craggy rocky spots are priced in serious dollars but the more ag land attached lakefront farms are a bit more reasonable. W Quebec has similar and more competatively pricing.......... just insane governance and bizzare mostly harmelss bylaws.


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## Intrigue (Jun 11, 2008)

Really, your best bet is Maritimes Canada. Pick any of the provinces....Nova Scotia, Newfoundland, NewBrunswick, PEI.

The weather in Nova Scotia, as an example, is very reasonable. Bit cooler summers, but a very nice Fall and relatively moderate winters.

A house with some acreage on a river can be found for under $200,000.

Add in very nice people, a medical system that is top-notch, and, in the case of Newfoundland, a province that is on the verge of booming because of the development of oil resources.

Ontario has a lot of choices too, but to find anything reasonable will limit you to 'bush' land.

Personally, I would never, ever, ever want to move to the USA. The US people are good people but the government really sucks. They just don't care about their citizens. No healthcare, no respect or care for the elderly or the less-fortunate. It's basically a country where the rich get the private schools, the expensive universities, the best healthcare, and all the perks. The average citizen is left to fend for themselves.

Here's an example. In Canada there are no 'private' universities like a Yale or Harvard. All universities are the same cost. Some may be a bit more renowned than others in reputation but it's not the almighty buck that gets you in....it's the academic qualifications. People in Canada don't need to save $200,000 to send their kid to university.

Here's another exmple. My mother who is 78 does not have a pension. She lives on $17,000 a year from her old age pension......a monthly government cheque. She gets free healthcare, free medicines, subsidized housing in a nice apartment, senior discounts on almost anything she needs and she lives very nicely indeed.

So if great people, free medicalcare, great post-secondary schools, great job training schools, and reasonably priced housing and land is important to you, then you already know where to go. It's not surprising that there are a lot of Irish already over here.


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## tarbe (Apr 7, 2007)

I am surprised there are any folks left in the US! Why haven't they all moved north?




Tim


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## MariaAZ (Jun 5, 2007)

What's the tax rate like in Canada? We've been oohing and aahing over some of the Canadian real estate listings we've seen.


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## Intrigue (Jun 11, 2008)

The tax rate is higher in Canada and that's understandable. Up here we ***** and complain about the tax rate but it's not as high as in U.K. The tax rate hits people with an income over $100,000 but for an average family earning 40-60K it is not that much higher than the U.S.

In fact I believe the U.S. good citizens are gonna be in for a tax shock within the next few years. The U.S. government spending deficit is astronomical and that's going to have to be repaid somehow. 

In Canada, a lot of the tax dollars go into the healthcare and education systems. We don't really have a military of any great degree. The crime rate is a lot lower too. Even in a major city like Toronto, they are shocked and outaged if there's a shooting once a month. 

I think a lot of Americans would like to emigrate to Canada if they knew something about this country. It always amazes me that, except for the border cities, very few Americans have any real knowledge of this place.

Let me just explain a bit about healthcare. Every Canadian is given a health identification card. You go to the docter, hospital emergency, need surgery, heart attack, cancer, need a heart transplant......no charge. Nothing! No limit, no deductible. If you get a prescription you need to pay for the drugs (but not the drugs while in the hospital) but the drug costs are much lower than in the U.S. Probably about 1/3 of the U.S. prices. Seniors over 65 and social assistance recipients get drugs for free.

Most employers have health benefits which covers stuff that the government plan doesn't cover......like drugs and dental.

There is a cost associated with living in an area that has four seasons. Basically the homes need to be insulated well. Also you need stuff like two sets of clothes, some areas you need to winterize the car, and it's not a lot of fun shoveling snow. The big joke is when it rains, people will look at each other and exclaim...."At least we don't need to shovel it".

Problem is, it isn't all that easy to get a Canadian citizenship. It's the usual paperwork process that one would have trying to get into most countries.


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## nancy237 (May 29, 2008)

I heard in Canada you cannot own a gun even to protect livestock.


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## Intrigue (Jun 11, 2008)

Gun laws in Canada are strict. You cannot walk around with a concealed pistol. That is a big no-no.

However, hunting and owning a rifle is allowed. There are gun clubs for skeet shooting. Pistol ranges for target practice. I can go and buy a shotgun right now if I wanted too. There's some paperwork involved for registration purposes. Personally I don't own any guns but my brother has three rifles that he uses for hunting geese, ducks and the odd moose. They are all registered, he has his FAC (Firearms Aquisition Certificate to buy ammo) and has them properly stored in a metal lockbox. All reasonable regulations.

To commit a crime with a gun is a major offense. Law abiding good citizens can own guns but they must be purchased properly, transported properly, stored properly and used properly. Makes sense to me!


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## aussie dave (Apr 28, 2006)

I stayed SC in march many years ago , visiting from OZ and i found that the mossies (mosquitos) were nothing. but those knats drove me insane ( must of liked the taste of my blood)


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## legendaryliving (Nov 29, 2007)

Tee hee - when I read the original post my mind was reeling at what horrible thing the "mossies" might be - some Irish folklore scary thing that only showed up around water or woods - hm.....now that I think of it - We live in the keys - that pretty much describes the "mossies" here sometimes!


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## adamtheha (Mar 14, 2007)

Yes, Canada is nice, and we have a lot of government perks, which personally I could do without. I don't think people should be forced to participate in government healthcare, I would like to have a choice. Up here, the gov't is wanting to make vitamins illegal without prescription, and you can't find any alternative health care practitioners who aren't being harassed or are booked solid. We can't buy raw milk, and the gov't owns our firearms. We have "health care", but the cost is astronomical and the value is low. Eventually, the healthcare system will go bankrupt, especially with all the sick people. I don't like paying for your chemotherapy because you smoked all your life!!!
Communism sucks...


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## Ross (May 9, 2002)

Great news Adam!! You can (and always could) opt out of the provincial health care plans and system in Canada!!! Opting out in Alberta


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## ET1 SS (Oct 22, 2005)

dolmen said:


> Hi everyone,
> 
> We are from Ireland, but want a homestead, its impossible for ordinary folks to buy anything over here so we're looking at across the big pond.
> 
> ...


I bought forest land in Maine.

River frontage, county maintained / paved road with power / phone and DSL at the pavement. 

I paid $900 per acre, due to the river frontage. Normal forest land here goes for $300 per acre. Taxes are $1.05 per acre per year.


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## wr (Aug 10, 2003)

nancy, that is misinformation that never seems to go away. We certainly can own a gun to protect our livestock, the government would like it to be registered but some do and some don't. The only time the issue is enforced is if you were flaunting the rules in such a way that they had to do something. If it is at home and used to put down injured stock or to dispatch the odd predator nobody would bother you.


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## mnn2501 (Apr 2, 2008)

tarbe said:


> I am surprised there are any folks left in the US! Why haven't they all moved north?
> Tim


one word -- winter :cowboy:


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## Mel- (Mar 30, 2004)

<snort!>

and I would think moving from Ireland to Canada would be an even bigger shock!


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## Intrigue (Jun 11, 2008)

Let me just clarify a few things (Canada)

GUN CONTROL

You certainly have a right to own guns. Since 2001 all gun owners must have a licence to purchase and own guns and ammo. Plus all guns must be registered with the RCMP database. Since 1934 all handguns needed to be registered. If anyone thinks this is a major inconvenience, they have the right to think so but the reality is that it's basically paperwork. Nobody comes to your door every month to check on your guns. Use them lawfully and there isn't a problem. I don't see where the big aggravation is. The only ones that seem to be aggravated are the people who have a criminal record and are not approved to own guns. Well that's too bad.....because, guess what....I don't want those people owning guns either. Do you?

Gun control is so much more than just registering your guns. It's also about monitoring all guns from the manufacturers to the wholesalers to the retailers. Every gun sold must be accurately and meticulously accounted for. This is to minimize the chances of 'black market guns'. Yes, there are some black market guns available on the street in the major cities but guess where they come from......smuggled from the United States. What does that tell you.

In a perfect world, gun control wouldn't be necessary if everyone went about their lawfull business. But it isn't a perfect world and crime with guns does happen. There are people that are not so nice....and that's a fact, Jack.

HEALTHCARE.

I can't believe that someone would want to opt out of the healthcare system .....are they nuts! Maybe some immature 20 year old who thinks nothing can happen may think it's a waste of money. Maybe someone who thinks the system dollars shouldn't be treating people who smoke. Selfish and stupid. Guess what? Everyone will get sick at sometime. Everyone will die! What does it cost in the US to treat cancer or heart attack. Everyone will die by either accident or a health issue. Everyone!!!!!! Break a leg, what does it cost. Have a baby, what does it cost. Baby gets sick, what does it cost. 

I'll give you a little personal example. My wife and I are both 56 age and retired. We are both in very good health but wife has had a few isuues. About 6 years ago she was treated for pre-cancerous cervical cells. A few years back she need to have a galbladder removed, and last year she needed emergency appendectomy. Add in a few colonoscopys, some mammograms, health checkups and the usual bloodwork. Ohh, forgot, she also needed a CAT scan because her appendicitis was not typical. So add all this and the cost may be a total of $30,000 or more. Where to get the money.....back loan, 2nd mortgage. And that was just easy stuff. Total cost to us $0.

Sure, there may not be enuff docters but that's not the systems fault. That's the doctors association which objects to having more medical university seats opened up.

I just can't believe someone would say the cost is astronomical and the value is low. That is the most idiotic thing I've heard in a while. Let's just see how the value holds up when they opt out, get hit with a health issue and are presented with a $50,000 bill. There goes the homestead......bye bye homestead as the judgement takes it away.

Any American that thinks taxes spent on healthcare is wrong way to go needs to think again. Healthcare in the US is already funded, not by tax dollars, but by corporate dollars. That healthplan at work is costs the employer major buckos. Corporations work simply on a total expenses plus profit and thats the selling price. Everyone in the US is paying for some corporations health policies because the cost is built into the price. Now here's the real kicker. These great American corporations have figured out that if they move production to half-baked countries like China they can get the product produced cheaper and still sell at the price of the US-made products. How many US jobs are being lost every day. 

LAWS AND REGULATIONS.

The government needs to set rules (laws) because there are a lot of dumbass people in the world. There are always those people who think that nobody can tell them what to do and they insist on doing whatever they want, usually to the detriment of others. Now, I am a big advocate of people going about their business. Don't bother me and I won't bother you!. But sometimes that just isn't enough.

Example. Let's say there were no regulations an having a septic system to treat the waste. So a neighbor buys the land next to yours and the dumb* decides he doesn't want to spend $10K on a septic system. So he digs a big hole covers it with plywood and dirt and his sewage gets dumped in untreated. Time goes by and your family is getting sick. Your neighbor has contaminated the groundwater. What do you do. He hasn't broken any regulations. Do you go over there and shoot him with your unregistered gun? Do you burn his house down?

There may be a few too many laws. Seems like any new government thinks that we need more laws. But really, go about your lawful business and nobody bothers you. It's only the dumbies* doing dumb* things that get all riled up.


*slight editing by Angie - PM explanation sent to poster.


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## adamtheha (Mar 14, 2007)

Ross said:


> Great news Adam!! You can (and always could) opt out of the provincial health care plans and system in Canada!!! Opting out in Alberta


Nice...except my employer pays the premiums. What I can't opt out of is provincial income tax, and that's what subsidizes the health care system. However, I'd rather subsidize health care, than PUBLIC school!


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## adamtheha (Mar 14, 2007)

Sorry, I can't contain myself. Intrigue, please don't take any of the following personally.



Intrigue said:


> Let me just clarify a few things (Canada)
> 
> GUN CONTROL
> 
> ...


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## jirwin (Dec 3, 2007)

How about Ohio? We live in SE Oh near a college town, year round farmers market, very homestead friendly community. Sites with listings: www.athensohiorealestate.com , www.landandfarm.com. Feel free to check out my blog, and ask any questions. Yes, we have all 4 seasons.


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## stoneunhenged (Sep 22, 2007)

Here's my pitch: An inland county in North Florida.

Relatively cheap land prices.

Some of the highest rainfall in the U.S.; enough to grow lush pastures without irrigation.

No income tax.

Fairly low sales tax.

Enough freezes in the winter to remind you winter exists, but not too cold.

Some of the clearest, cleanest groundwater in the world. Entire rivers flow from freshwater springs.

You're close enough to the ocean if you like saltwater sports. You're far enough away to avoid hurricane damage.

Looong growing season, including citrus.

Major cities within a five-hour drive: Tampa, Orlando, Jacksonville, New Orleans, Atlanta.


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## MariaAZ (Jun 5, 2007)

stoneunhenged, you are making FL sound mighty nice! How's the humidity?


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## tarbe (Apr 7, 2007)

mnn2501 said:


> one word -- winter :cowboy:


I guess I should have used a smilie to show sarcasm!

I lived in WI for 22 years...I know why folks don't go north!


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## newhomemaker (Dec 11, 2007)

tarbe said:


> I guess I should have used a smilie to show sarcasm!
> 
> I lived in WI for 22 years...I know why folks don't go north!


Actually, I'm moving to that area. I want what you have.


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## adamtheha (Mar 14, 2007)

Aah, winter ain't so bad. Here in Alberta we have what the Indians used to call "Snow Eaters" or Chinooks that warm things up real nice every couple weeks. We really only get about a month total of "super" cold weather, the rest of the time it's about 5-15 Celcius or so. Summer is terrific here too! But, short growing season.


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## MrPG (Oct 9, 2005)

I have lived in both Ontario, Canada, and in the USA (both Pennsylvania and Colorado).

The USA is better, hands down, period. 

Yes, you have to buy your own medical insurance, but Canada's insanely high rates of taxation and lackluster healthcare are worse.

I would suggest at least one trip to the USA, possibly a visit to each of the areas of the Atlantic Seaboard including Pennsylvania, New Jersey, and Virginia; to the Pacific Northwest such as Washington or Oregon; and one other area that you find interesting based on your research.

Another challenge is the extent to which you will want to make new friends. Some areas are more friendly than others. For instance, here in Pennsylvania I have found people to be not as easy to make friends with, mainly because they already have a bunch of friends from high school, work, etc.


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## Intrigue (Jun 11, 2008)

MrPG


It's funny you say that.

Any pole of world countries ranks Canada way ahead of the USA as a better place to live, espiacially in quality of life.

The taxes are a bit higher but not by much. Some things are not even taxed like lottery or casino winnings (just a humorous example). More importantly, there is no inheritance tax, capital gains are ar 50% free, 50% taxable. Dividends are taxable at 2/3 (1/3 is free money). The RRSP retirement savings plan is better than the 401 system. CMHC housing mortgages are much more efficient. There are a whole lot of examples of differences. But, you are correct that the taxes are higher but just not insanely higher.

The medical care is about the same. In fact, my docter spent the past 8 years in S.Carolina and just moved back recently because he didn't want his daughter growing up in an environment that fosters racial bigotry. His comments are that the medical services are pretty much equivalent. The big difference is, of course, that here EVERYONE gets healthcare. If you don't have insurance in the US....what does a person do? Die? Interesting that almost all 'western countries' have nationalized healthcare except the US. Also intereting that each of these countries rank higher than the US in life-expectancy. Can't argue with the facts, my friend.

That's not too say I don't like the US. The people are generally great, friendly, hard-working folk. Even Pennsylvania is a great state with very friendly people (I'm a Steelers fan). Not crazy about the political system down there (controlled by Lobby groups.....a form of legal bribery), but then I don't really care because I don't have to.

By and large, I don't think anyone from any country could say that US cities are better than Canadian cities in terms of safety, security, quality-of-life. Canadian real-estate prices are generally lower (wasn't always the case) and the idea that people leave people alone and let them live their lives in peace is more of a way-of-life here. The RCMP doesn't monitor the internet for 'key-words' like the FBI does. They don't keep huge files on citizens. We don't have laws that prohibit women from walking top-less down the street. And if you partake in nature's 'weed', you'll find that it is a lot more tolerated up here.


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## tarbe (Apr 7, 2007)

Intrigue said:


> MrPG
> 
> 
> If you don't have insurance in the US....what does a person do? Die?



Most get taken care of, and the rest of us pay for it. That is why my son's appendectomy cost $15,000. Paying for the care given to folks who don't pay. Kinda like Socialized medicine...but in a back-door sorta way.

Fortunately, I am one of the few (if you believe the hype) that has health insurance.


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