# septic system



## bassmaster17327 (Apr 6, 2011)

I am looking at a piece of land for sale in southern VA, I was planning to just have a well for water and no spetic system. The county website says I have to have an approved septic to be able to get a building permit so is there anything I need to check on the property befor buying it to make sure I can put in a septic?


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

> anything I need to check on the property befor buying


Most of the time the County will have to do a "perk" test


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## bassmaster17327 (Apr 6, 2011)

What happens if the land would not pass a perk test?


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## fishhead (Jul 19, 2006)

Then you'd probably have to modify the septic system. That's what they do here in MN.


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## mistletoad (Apr 17, 2003)

Depends on the county, but most have a mound type system that they require if your land doesn't perk. These systems are expensive - ask for a perk test before you buy and consider installation costs when making your offer.


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## bassmaster17327 (Apr 6, 2011)

The asking price of the land is 5,000 so I doubt that they will be willing to do a perk test unless I pay for it

I really do not even want a septic system but I can not get a building permit with out a septic


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## swollen tongue (Mar 9, 2006)

yes, you want a septic system...........you will be glad you put one in. a perk test is easy to perform...check out the web for info for your state.........usually the County man does the perk test with the septic application for around $75 or so, at least here in my area. a few holes and pour water in them and see how much time it takes for the water level to go down........too fast ...not good, too slow..not good, but usually it will be a good test if you dont have ground water near the surface. You can do a perk test before you buy it...no problem. also check with the nearest nieghbors to see what they have in previous perk tests with the same type of soil............good luck!!


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## bassmaster17327 (Apr 6, 2011)

I have another house down there and we do not use the septic system, there is no need to to use it. We do humanure so no blackwater and the greywater goes into a gravel pit


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## MN Gardener (Jan 23, 2008)

Call the county and explain the situation with them. They may have ran into your scenario before and will have more answers for you. A local septic installer will know the area too and be able to give a lot of good info. Our septic guy was the one who did our perk test.


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## Zeet_Cranberry (Jan 11, 2011)

We had a local soil engineer come out and do test holes. He worked for the County Health Dept for years and did all the necessary paperwork too. He augered down a specified depth and evaluated the soil. We have heavy clay so have to put in a mound system but it was just good enough to not need a drain around the mound. It was money well spent.


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## StatHaldol (Sep 1, 2006)

bassmaster17327 said:


> What happens if the land would not pass a perk test?


I am curious about this too. Has anyone seen an instance where the county wouldn't approve ANY septic system because of the perk test? This would be a big fear of mine.


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## motdaugrnds (Jul 3, 2002)

Bassmaster, Do yourself a big favor and call that county's "Health Department" as well as the "Building Inspector Department". You do not want to purchase a piece of property those departments deny you to use as you want to.


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## EarthSheltered (May 9, 2008)

I know we are very anti-establishment here on HT, but really, a septic system is a GOOD thing, for you and your neighbors downstream. 

You say you won't use one, you plan to compost. Well, good for you. I hope you do it correctly, so there are no flies, runoff, or chance of disease transmission. A few of the diseases capable of being transmitted by a leaking septic are Hepatitis, Meningitis, and no doubt more that I cannot think of at this moment. Even if it wasn't do you want to smell raw sewage? I don't. 

I agree with running grey water into a sump, or caching it for garden or orchard use. But human manure can be very disgusting, and very lethal. That is why there is a Sewage Facilities Act. Some soils just let sewage (and other toxins) leach right thru into your local water table. Do you know where the local aquifer is? Does is run under your property? Does it continue on to the neighbor? How many other people will you affect by your actions?

This issue was brought home to me when a neighbor put 9000 gallons PER ACRE of liquid manure in the field that was over 1000 feet from my property line. There was even a small wooded area between us. He was legally allowed to do so. It rained hard that night. The next morning my water smelled like cow urine, and was no longer clear. I had it tested, the fecal count was off the charts. The Farm Bureau was brought in, we agreed to share the cost of a soil scientist. To make a long story short, he found that property had a huge aquifer on it, with voids close to the surface. This aquifer fed my well. So the farmer effectively applied liquid manure to my well. Thankfully, he as been very good to work with, he wouldn't have to be. This is how YOUR actions can affect others. (I realize your manure useage would be much less, but it still has an affect on others)

Go to the county and see what is required. If a septic is required, ask for a variance, and show documentation on how you intend to deal with your sewage. They will probably refer you to the Department of Environmental Protection. The DEP (or like body) tends to have final say in these matters. There are many experimental systems out there that may suit your needs.

If you don't want any restrictions on what you can do with your sewage, or how you build and develop your property, I suggest you find a less restricted state, like West Virginia, or one of the western states. 

No personal insult intended here, but it makes me crazy when everyone wants to do what they want on there land, no matter how it affects others. You often hear the other side of the coin on the 'bad neighbor' threads.


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## lamoncha lover (Mar 1, 2009)

StatHaldol said:


> I am curious about this too. Has anyone seen an instance where the county wouldn't approve ANY septic system because of the perk test? This would be a big fear of mine.


My i n laws in northern mn had over 100 acres they had bought decades ago., when it was time to retire and build on it it would not perk. They had to fight for over 5 years to be able to even put a special mound system in. It cost them a LOT of money. I woul dbe very leery of land that won't perk


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## sammyd (Mar 11, 2007)

in our county you either get a mound or tanks, there are no drain fields or drain outs allowed anymore. If you sell a house with an old septic system you either update or take a lesser price so the buyer can update.


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## lamoncha lover (Mar 1, 2009)

my in laws were not allowed to pu tin tanks. They had to fight and i mean fight to be allowed Anything


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## Pony (Jan 6, 2003)

EarthSheltered said:


> You say you won't use one, you plan to compost. Well, good for you. I hope you do it correctly, so there are no flies, runoff, or chance of disease transmission. A few of the diseases capable of being transmitted by a leaking septic are Hepatitis, Meningitis, and no doubt more that I cannot think of at this moment. Even if it wasn't do you want to smell raw sewage? I don't.
> 
> I agree with running grey water into a sump, or caching it for garden or orchard use. But human manure can be very disgusting, and very lethal. That is why there is a Sewage Facilities Act. Some soils just let sewage (and other toxins) leach right thru into your local water table. Do you know where the local aquifer is? Does is run under your property? Does it continue on to the neighbor? How many other people will you affect by your actions?
> 
> ...


It makes ME crazy when people compare apples and oranges, and then attack folks who do things differently.

There is a WORLD of difference between composting humanure and "liquid manure" that you're talking about. Furthermore, the diseases you're talking about do not occur in a properly operated composting set up.

PLEASE educate yourself before you go off on someone.

I recommend you start here:

http://weblife.org/humanure/

Absolutely fascinating book, and it helps to bring things into perspective. When I read this book, so many of my preconceived ideas were challenged, and a whole new world opened up for me.


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## sammyd (Mar 11, 2007)

> properly operated composting set up


Herein lies the problem.
You may know what is proper, you may have the wherewithal to keep everything shipshape and so forth.
Joe Cheese down the road may have the same idea but not as much gumption. What happens when his system breaks and he doesn't bother to fix it or maybe doesn't fix it right?


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## Pony (Jan 6, 2003)

sammyd said:


> Herein lies the problem.
> You may know what is proper, you may have the wherewithal to keep everything shipshape and so forth.
> Joe Cheese down the road may have the same idea but not as much gumption. What happens when his system breaks and he doesn't bother to fix it or maybe doesn't fix it right?


Dude, it's a pretty self-limiting system, whether you run it hot or not. It's not rocket surgery, and it's no more difficult than clearing out the barn and leaving the pile to rot.

It's just poo. Sheesh!


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## EarthSheltered (May 9, 2008)

Pony said:


> It makes ME crazy when people compare apples and oranges, and then attack folks who do things differently.
> 
> There is a WORLD of difference between composting humanure and "liquid manure" that you're talking about. Furthermore, the diseases you're talking about do not occur in a properly operated composting set up.
> 
> ...


PLEASE read for comprehension before you judge my post. I was NOT comparing one situation to another, I was pointing out WHY this issue was so important to me, that I posted about it. 

Composting human manure PROPERLY takes effort. While the OP may be willing to do that, will his neighbor? Or will he just wing it out the back door. The point of it all is that composting, or septic systems or public sewer done properly is a benefit to everyone. Not doing them properly is a health hazard to everyone.

I may be comparing apples to oranges (OMG how COULD SHE) but I have neighbors who cannot even properly dispose of their garbage, creating a health hazard by bringing in vermin. The OP may have all the best intentions in the world, but there are rules and regulations so everyone can drink their water.


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## ErinP (Aug 23, 2007)

Pony is right. A composting system is REALLY hard to screw up. 
Throwing a chamber pot out the door, btw, is NOT composting.


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## Pony (Jan 6, 2003)

ErinP said:


> Pony is right. A composting system is REALLY hard to screw up.
> Throwing a chamber pot out the door, btw, is NOT composting.


"---- [pee] POT!" :hysterical: Thanks, Erin. You reminded me of a funny line in Black Adder.

And I'd like to add to that "rules and regulations" are not to insure that people have safe drinking water. They're about an entirely different kind of control. Still finding it hard to see how someone's poo pile is going to contaminate fresh water for miles around.


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