# What could you do without?



## sustainabilly (Jun 20, 2012)

Say, for whatever the reason(s), you had to drastically reduce the amount of stuff you have. Or maybe the amount of stuff you pay for on a regular basis. Maybe even your housing. Could you live in a tent? What would you consider necessities? Luxuries? Would the livestock go, or the internet? Could you deal with the realities of _real_ off grid living? Maybe you lost your job. Could you cut enough expenses to forage, hunt, garden, burn wood for heat,...etc?


----------



## Fowler (Jul 8, 2008)

I used to live in a tent and plant trees for the forestry......in my 20's
Now I am spoiled, I still garden, chop wood, and know how to hunt, I have lost everything many times over. The thought of loosing everything again at my age would most likely push me to the edge.....LOL!!


----------



## vicker (Jul 11, 2003)

Fowler said:


> I used to live in a tent and plant trees for the forestry......in my 20's
> Now I am spoiled, I still garden, chop wood, and know how to hunt, I have lost everything many times over. The thought of loosing everything again at my age would most likely push me to the edge.....LOL!!



Hot and cold running water is wonderful, and a washing machine is great, but I'd probably trade them all if I needed a tarp.


----------



## tambo (Mar 28, 2003)

I have things I could sell and live for awhile. The more I am alone the more I think of stuff as a burden. The one thing I would want the most if I had to live like this is a skilled partner. I think anything else I had would be a bonus. I'm not sure I answered correctly but this is what came to mind.

I disconnected my satellite and have an antenna now. I miss it some but most of the time I don't. The internet would hurt the most I think but if I had a good partner I wouldn't miss that.


----------



## elkhound (May 30, 2006)

being totally out of debt gives me huge flexibility in the things and ways i wanna live and do.


----------



## Fowler (Jul 8, 2008)

vicker said:


> Hot and cold running water is wonderful, and a washing machine is great, but I'd probably trade them all if I needed a tarp.


I'll give you a tarp.....:happy2:


----------



## hawgsquatch (May 11, 2014)

Stooped peeopl whou cand spall. Oh you mean things? I could pare it down to three guns instead of three gun safes?


----------



## tambo (Mar 28, 2003)

hawgsquatch said:


> Stooped peeopl whou cand spall. Oh you mean things? I could pare it down to three guns instead of three gun safes?


I resemble this remark. Three people in my office and none of us are very good at spelling. We have a dictionary that is worn out!! Lol


----------



## elkhound (May 30, 2006)

ahhh the spellin police....lol


----------



## sustainabilly (Jun 20, 2012)

I think no electricity would be real hard. Mostly because I love to read, especially at night, and I already have bad, tired old eyes. No TV here at all. Just a DVD/VCR and that's not on much. But as long as I had a heat source I could make do without it for cooking, hot water, ...etc. The library is a two mile walk, so if I absolutely needed the internet I could go there.

I've also lived in a tent, and a vehicle, but I was younger too. I wouldn't mind carrying water because I'd make sure I only did when it was truly necessary. Winter would be hard on that though. I'd really hate not having my coffee. Probably try to barter pretty regular to get it. Or maybe grow a good patch of chicory and make do.

I think tambo's partner thing is actually a really good point. Thinking about it logically, there are a lot of advantages to a teamwork approach. Even if it's only a team of two. And keeping it small reduces friction while not increasing supply needs too much.


----------



## Fowler (Jul 8, 2008)

hawgsquatch said:


> Stooped peeopl whou cand spall. Oh you mean things? I could pare it down to three guns instead of three gun safes?


Look's like someone's trying to move in on shannon's job as the spelling nazi......LOL!!!!


----------



## sustainabilly (Jun 20, 2012)

Well thure's been a void. It's beeen notioced by those in the gnow. Or is that gnome?


----------



## elkhound (May 30, 2006)

hey they both live in same state...roflmao...go figure...lol..must be drinking from the same crick.


----------



## sustainabilly (Jun 20, 2012)

Really though. Get past the showering together saves water and conserve body heat by snuggling innuendo and you'll see the simple logic. Then there's watching each others back while hunting and foraging--I said watching, not washing. Plus, ever see a chimp trying to get a tick off its own back? Now that's funny, there. There's a lot more stuff like that, that a single person has a hard time doing alone.


----------



## tambo (Mar 28, 2003)

Living without hot water, water, electricity and other modern conveniences would hurt but I could do it. I would suffer some from lack of skills and I would need some cheese to go with my whine.

I would like to be off grid right now. At the least have the capabilites in place just in case. 

I had someone tell my once I must really be bored to make my own crackers. Lol I told them I just wanted to learn how to make them in case I ever needed to. They couldn't understand the need to know such a thing.


----------



## Fowler (Jul 8, 2008)

I already do without sex....isnt that enough?...LOL!!!


----------



## Forcast (Apr 15, 2014)

I lived in my house without power and when your on a well its a real problem, getting water, I did rain collection but it was still a pain in the butt, washing clothes and drying them, washing dishes, flushing. all get old fast. most of our homes are just not set up for non running water. maybe a water tank on the roof would help with a hose in the 2nd floor window then to the 1st floor. but winter would be a real problem. Cooking was a pain as well took too long to do everything. Refrigeration was another problem. nearest store 12 miles one way for ice dont work. a hot shower another problem. now fans to run, winter would do me in. I had no propain for awhile with the 3 young kids, I put a tent up in the basement and closed part off around the wood stove. what a mess that was. Now at my age I could not do it, I would close up the house and walk out of here if I had to. Just cant do things like I us too. summer is one thing winter a nother.


----------



## elkhound (May 30, 2006)

if i build a new home its going to be both on and off grid....i have spent alot of time looking at,reading and learning...theres no reason to suffer off grid..in fact i think if we think outside the box we can live more comfortable overall than currently most do.

this book by ben faulk i am reading is very interesting about homestead design.

my woodstove is the most vaulable item i have 5-6 months of of a year. i also have a woodcook stove in storage for the home i wanna build one day.


----------



## elkhound (May 30, 2006)

hey karl...look at this...yea i know thread drift but i am doing several things at once and this goes with foraging...lol...think of it being used on small deer tenderloin...oh man !!!

http://lpoli.50webs.com/index_files/Tasso.pdf


----------



## WhyNot (Jun 21, 2011)

Like many, I've done without most everything several times in my life and some were for a rather longish period. It was really hard especially because I had no backup, there was no plan to be that way when it happened.

I've learned. I work very hard not to end up like that unless on purpose. For me, I don't have a lot of stuff anyway and I am continually getting rid of things, consolidating things, etc. Everything is for sale at the right price  Okay not EVERYTHING but material items lol. Like this move to this teeny apartment...I had accumulated furniture in the last places that people gave me. I felt like it weighed me down because I am the only one usually moving my stuff and I feel like right now I have to be nimble. So I got rid of it and paid my car insurance.

People have laughed when I say that when I move out of this place I intend to move out with two duffel bags and my toothbrush. I will make this a reality though.

I specifically chose a place this time with my utilities including internet all in one lump for rent. All inclusive. If I want to watch a show, I have the internet.

I can do without the internet at home. Being on it and dealing with it for a living wears a person out on it anyway. I'm neither here nor there with it while home. My home is my sanctuary...if I work outside the home I do not bring work to the home. Same as I do not take home to work.

In my current situation and living not having a vehicle would be really bad. I'd lose everything then for sure because I wouldn't be able to get to work.

But if we are talking about ideal situation....all I need is a bit of land, cabin and a way to reach people and water. The rest, I can invent if I don't already have the means. 

WANT to have to scrounge and invent is one something else though, I've done enough of that. I'd rather do what I am doing now and saving 70% of my income for ..... THE DAY! :nanner:


----------



## elkhound (May 30, 2006)

one thing i have decided is when my fridge goes i wont be replaceing it with a normal one.i am going to a horizontal freezer converted to fridge with a built in freezer box in home wall for winter use too.

tnandy showed me a cool controller i got for my big freezer and i can now use it to hold deer if need be since i lost my old pepsi cooler that was used for it.


----------



## sustainabilly (Jun 20, 2012)

Forcast said:


> I lived in my house without power and when your on a well its a real problem, getting water, I did rain collection but it was still a pain in the butt, washing clothes and drying them, washing dishes, flushing. all get old fast. most of our homes are just not set up for non running water. maybe a water tank on the roof would help with a hose in the 2nd floor window then to the 1st floor. but winter would be a real problem. Cooking was a pain as well took too long to do everything. Refrigeration was another problem. nearest store 12 miles one way for ice dont work. a hot shower another problem. now fans to run, winter would do me in. I had no propain for awhile with the 3 young kids, I put a tent up in the basement and closed part off around the wood stove. what a mess that was. Now at my age I could not do it, I would close up the house and walk out of here if I had to. Just cant do things like I us too. summer is one thing winter a nother.


Your post on a thread in CF about how you're having it rough right now is what made me think of the OP. I'm sorry for the hard times you're going through Forcast. You're right. There would be _huge_ adjustments and some things that just wouldn't work. I think things like eating completely seasonally, drying a lot more stuff than we normally do nowadays, and finding a year round potable water source would be compulsory. Even then, there might still be a moon of starving. Looks like you had some good, innovative ways to survive though.


----------



## newfieannie (Dec 24, 2006)

I don't want to do without any of my comforts now . I worked hard enough and earned the right to all I can get. but the question was can we? I definitely can't sleep in a tent. never could. we always had campers and whatnot because of that. the rest of it that forcast mentioned I do without every time I go to the country. I have to drag in water from the well. heat it up on the stove etc. chop wood and lug it in. no tv, satellite etc all that stuff never bothered me. (i do have to have books around though or i'll be hanging from the chandelier)

I went a couple winters lugging in water like that. heating it up for baths etc. furnace gave out one winter and I couldn't afford another but I did have the woodstove. while I got my health and strength i can do without a lot. as my GF use to say "a man don't know what he can do until he's faced with it"~Georgia.


----------



## sustainabilly (Jun 20, 2012)

elkhound said:


> hey karl...look at this...yea i know thread drift but i am doing several things at once and this goes with foraging...lol...think of it being used on small deer tenderloin...oh man !!!
> 
> http://lpoli.50webs.com/index_files/Tasso.pdf


That looks good elk. The only thing I can see to, maybe, add to that recipe is some cumin.


----------



## WhyNot (Jun 21, 2011)

Elkhound, I think that determining which is right for a person re: on or off grid is also how they define it. Some define off grid is completely without electric and then there are people like me that define it as basically generating your own. I also reserve the "right" lol to use any grid or utility/service that my future land has available to it...call me no homesteader, I don't care.

I think it's always good to have a backup and I think what is right for the person depends on their abilities, what is available at their location and also how they live. I sort of like the idea of being able to tie into the electric grid and utilities because if something happens after I move out to the boondocks and something happens, I know how to use the internet to make some fast money. And being that I keep having accidents, my body is revolting so putting in extra hard manual labor on someone else's place to trade for emergency cash is looking grim for me.

Even here in the city...this storm I had here...I lost some stuff in the fridge because for almost four days I had no electric. Really I only lost some final scrapings in the mayo jar and about a glass of milk...I wasn't really worried. But now I have a full fridge and freezer. When the power goes out guess what happens? All the gas stations and stores close. Ya ain't gettin ice unless you can get out to somewhere that has electric. I don't see many people saying that. I feel very vulnerable in the city. Very. More reason to work hard and save to get out.

So even in the boondocks, if you are going solar or whatever instead of main energy grid, there has to be a quick access backup plan for food keeping and then heat in the winter...which to me is easier lol woodstove...I wouldn't use electric to heat my cabin anyway.

Also temperature zone is a consideration...another reason I cannot see myself homesteading in Texas.


----------



## elkhound (May 30, 2006)

sustainabilly said:


> That looks good elk. The only thing I can see to, maybe, add to that recipe is some cumin.


just look at recipes from around the globe.




http://lpoli.50webs.com/Sausage recipes.htm#DRY


----------



## TnAndy (Sep 15, 2005)

elkhound said:


> if i build a new home its going to be both on and off grid....i have spent alot of time looking at,reading and learning...*theres no reason to suffer off grid..in fact i think if we think outside the box we can live more comfortable overall than currently most do.*


You ABSOLUTELY can. 

With the right planning and enough time to work the plan, (unless you have deep pockets), living "off grid" can be better than a whole lot of on grid.

For example, when looking for a place, we valued (highly) enough of a wood lot that would provide fuel forever for us. Got it. (and burned wood for 30 years now). Not only has it provided fuel, but also the building material for almost every structure on the place (transformed from log to lumber via a small band mill)

Then a spring with enough elevation to provide gravity fed water was a biggie. Got that too. Built a collection system, and have neither a pump nor a water bill for 30 years.

Started with electric water heater, because it was cheap, easy to install. Went about 10 years, and replaced it with a propane unit, because I could store propane and not electric (at that time). That will soon be replaced with a vacuum tube solar water heater and eliminate the need for propane for that purpose.

Heat with wood. Cook with propane, but have a wood cook stove as backup.

Put in enough solar to provide some basic electric, then expanded several times and now produce all we use....and enough they actually pay us a small amount per year (offsets the propane bill). System is grid tied, but backed up by batteries. Grid down ? Flip the transfer switch and life goes on.

Food ? We produce 75-80% of what we eat. Probably our biggest expenditure at the store is dairy (milk, cheese), exotic fruit like bananas, and paper goods. I've simply put off getting a milk cow, or goats, because of so many other projects...but we could do it. (and did as a kid).

Living off grid can be hard.....or not....depending on your plan.


----------



## elkhound (May 30, 2006)

yall straighten up the tenn professor of off grid living is here now....his homestead is the bomb baby !!!!!!!!!!


----------



## newfieannie (Dec 24, 2006)

elkhound said:


> if i build a new home its going to be both on and off grid....i have spent alot of time looking at,reading and learning...theres no reason to suffer off grid..in fact i think if we think outside the box we can live more comfortable overall than currently most do.
> 
> this book by ben faulk i am reading is very interesting about homestead design.
> 
> my woodstove is the most vaulable item i have 5-6 months of of a year. i also have a woodcook stove in storage for the home i wanna build one day.


i definitely want one of those woodcook stoves in my little place too Elkie! if the power goes out then I'm all set. the one i gave my son i could cook on the top but it had no oven. i was pricing one last week. some of them are 4000. i was thinking i might get a used one somewhere but they are probably few and far between now. ~Georgia.


----------



## sustainabilly (Jun 20, 2012)

Wow! A lot of good looking poultry recipes, too. I bookmarked it. Thanks.


----------



## elkhound (May 30, 2006)

dear whynot....roflmao....i think i want half the house to be grid tied....the other half solar.that way i am covered...lol


drilled well and cistern along with spring,pond and seasonal creek....only thing i am missing is cistern.


----------



## WhyNot (Jun 21, 2011)

I do have to say though...being a homesteader moved to the city sure as heck makes no electric for a few days much LESS of a project and expense as my neighbors. And most of them have lived in this or some other city most of their lives. It's amazing how these people don't have candles and a few propane bottles or heaters. Many do have the luxury of generators but A LOT that have the generators...don't have extra gas...again..how you gonna get the gas if the electric is down??? lol 

Ice storm last winter...3 days no electric...I had my propane camp stove, lots of blankets and a propane heater....and more than enough propane bottles. The complex I was living in at the time...EMPTIED OUT. I was a happy camper.

A little forethought goes a long way, in the woods or displaced in the city


----------



## sdnapier (Aug 13, 2010)

tambo said:


> I had someone tell my once I must really be bored to make my own crackers. Lol I told them I just wanted to learn how to make them in case I ever needed to. They couldn't understand the need to know such a thing.


Do you have a favorite cracker recipe you could share? I have always wanted to make some.


----------



## tambo (Mar 28, 2003)

Here you go!

[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5UE_GE_0zUA[/ame]


----------



## moonwolf (Sep 20, 2004)

I could easily do without advice about doing without.
Just about anything I can think of that enhances my 
homestead life relies on common necessities that our
population relies upon. Otherwise, we are basically promoting
what harsh living is like in the third world. Why would I want
that? 
Okay, I could live with LESS of many things like using
fossil fuels for transportation. That's why I don't take 
frivolous gas consuming trips that are unnecessary.


----------



## Ramblin Wreck (Jun 10, 2005)

One thing I would like to have, and don't, is an easy way to get water when the power goes out. In the house where I grew up, the well pump was to the side of the old dug well (in a pump house), and there was a windless and bucket for drawing water. My pump is in the well and would be in the way of even dropping a rope/bucket for water. I could go down the hill and drive a well pretty easily, but as TnAndy says, you would need to plan/think ahead and either have done the deed or have the stuff you needed to do it when the time comes. For now, I've compromised and would use a Honda generator that runs on both gas and propane. I have a 250 gallon propane tank dedicated just to run the generator in case of a long term power outage.

As for some other modern conveniences, the internet and AC in July/August would be missed, but I grew up in a farm house with neither of those. Guess I could survive that. Turned the Dish off in May, and I'm very happy with Roku/Netflix/HuluPlus. Again, I grew up without those, so there must be life after TV. I'd miss the fridge and freezer for sure, but I can pressure can and dehydrate for food preservation. Dad was good at salt curing, and I think I could learn...if there was salt available. I've got some seeds stored away, but I need more and should get on a routine rotation for all of them.

A skilled partner would be nice, but I have lots of family, some much more skilled at hunting and foraging than I am. I do have a decent library of farming/homesteading books. One of the best, not for reading but for general reference, is Carla Emery's "Encyclopedia of Country Living". It even tells you how to prepare the dead for burial...but you'd need to plan ahead and have a little lime laying around the place.


----------



## Ramblin Wreck (Jun 10, 2005)

As for crackers, my favorite is Animal Crackers, the one with the Marx Brothers.


----------



## moonwolf (Sep 20, 2004)

Elk, about freezers. One nice thing about living in the
Northland is 'Free' freezer power here from dec to April.
Outside I keep a freezer and simply pull the plug. 
Vwalla..... We'll kept frozen goods....no hydro power for that
...... Economical way to store hard earned good game for
about 4 months/yr.


----------



## Terri in WV (May 10, 2002)

All that's going through my mind right now is that I could really, really, really do with a lot less bs in my life....


----------



## cindilu (Jan 27, 2008)

I am getting ready to do said project myself. On the weekends I have been at my land getting it ready for building. I am planning on going again this next weekend just to hire a tractor and roto guy to make my land look good. WHEN the time comes I am having a huge garage sale to get rid of half of what is in my house. Dishwasher, micro, washer, dryer, etc all are going. I don't own a tv so that isn't a problem. Getting rid of my bed and paring down to a twin daybed and half the knickknacks, etc. Also going to get rid of my couch and well the list goes on and on. Is that enough for ya?


----------



## hawgsquatch (May 11, 2014)

elkhound said:


> hey they both live in same state...roflmao...go figure...lol..must be drinking from the same crick.


Hey there, part of my job used to be reading inmate mail to find evil plots and escape plans and stuff. I can do this all day long. Ever play jail scramble? Any ward works as long as it can be spelled phonetically. Disputes are settled in the bathroom with Shania LOL.

Example: tha kawe jompd ova that mune.


----------



## elkhound (May 30, 2006)

excuses excuse....i say...californicators...pfffttttt...roflmao...j/k !!!!!...lol

keep ya cow fed she wont get loose....lol


----------



## WhyNot (Jun 21, 2011)

Ever notice that phonetics isn't spelled phonetically? 

:hobbyhors


----------



## elkhound (May 30, 2006)

WhyNot said:


> Ever notice that phonetics isn't spelled phonetically?
> 
> :hobbyhors


i only see one word and its never spelt the same....lol


----------



## rkintn (Dec 12, 2002)

I guess I could do without lots of stuff....if I had to. I've resurrected an old dream to live in a small/tiny house and the ideal would to be off grid but I'd still like to have power via solar. I'd also like to forgo the hassle of putting in a septic system but would still like to have some semblance of running water and hot showers and an indoor toilet of some kind. If TSHTF, and we lost most modern amenities, it'd be a pretty steep learning curve but I think I could learn to do without...like a lot of folks here could.


----------



## msscamp (Sep 8, 2014)

sustainabilly said:


> Say, for whatever the reason(s), you had to drastically reduce the amount of stuff you have. Or maybe the amount of stuff you pay for on a regular basis. Maybe even your housing. Could you live in a tent? What would you consider necessities? Luxuries? Would the livestock go, or the internet? Could you deal with the realities of _real_ off grid living? Maybe you lost your job. Could you cut enough expenses to forage, hunt, garden, burn wood for heat,...etc?


You're suggesting possibilities, but I've been there and done that. I had 3 dogs and, after my husband and I separated, one of them obstructed. I had the choice of watching her die and paying the rent, or taking her to the emergency vet. I chose taking her to the vet. I was evicted because of it. I've heated water on the stove to bathe because I had the choice of paying the electric bill or the gas bill - I chose gas so I could at least cook. I've farmed out dogs to friends because I was homeless, couldn't keep them with me, and visited them in the evenings and on week ends when I could. I've been picked up for invalid tags because I didn't have the money to renew them because I couldn't pay for repairs to meet emissions to get tags. Did without tv or internet, came ---- close to living under a bridge. I've been through the crucible, have you? These kinds of questions really piss me off because they are usually asked by snot nosed kids who don't a flipping clue!


----------



## littlejoe (Jan 17, 2007)

I could do without a lot if I had to, but I don't want to. I enjoy being on grid, it's relatively cheap, and it affords me luxuries that many did not have, even less than a century ago. 50 years or less ago, many places in the area still weren't on grid. They might have had a generator or propane fridges, but they had moved up to them. It made life easier, and better!!! For sure there was an added cost, but it was an affordable tradeoff.

The off grid movement now isn't off grid, I don't believe the cost outweighs the production. 

I need electricity to pump a well for water for me and livestock, to heat the water, to run a fridge and freezer, to do my laundry. run my lights and this computer, run power tools and welder, so I can keep on keeping on! I burn fuel in my wagons, to enable farmers to produce more for less expense and time. My work provides for my needs plus!

Do I want to build a sustainable place- yes! But I need electric and fuel, and I will still need it, to make it a sustainable place. We are all so tied to the grid, thru the things we use and live with, there is no denying it!

Me... I don't want to live without anything I have...my needs are met well! And I've been told I'm a minimalist...but I like where I'm at!


----------



## littlejoe (Jan 17, 2007)

msscamp said:


> You're suggesting possibilities, but I've been there and done that. I had 3 dogs and, after my husband and I separated, one of them obstructed. I had the choice of watching her die and paying the rent, or taking her to the emergency vet. I chose taking her to the vet. I was evicted because of it. I've heated water on the stove to bathe because I had the choice of paying the electric bill or the gas bill - I chose gas so I could at least cook. I've farmed out dogs to friends because I was homeless, couldn't keep them with me, and visited them in the evenings and on week ends when I could. I've been picked up for invalid tags because I didn't have the money to renew them because I couldn't pay for repairs to meet emissions to get tags. Did without tv or internet, came ---- close to living under a bridge. I've been through the crucible, have you? These kinds of questions really piss me off because they are usually asked by snot nosed kids who don't a flipping clue!


Did you pay your vet bill?


----------



## littlejoe (Jan 17, 2007)

Since actually reading the entire question again because of the above post...I think I could be happy living in a cave. If my basic needs were met, Food, shelter and water. I also want a place to lay my head that's warm and dry. I don't want to be faced with that type of situation though.

I've had an interest in local cultures through homesteading era...just local history. Several cultures of Indians...then the Spanish came in...then the Mexicans... then the homesteaders. Life wouldn't have been fun by todays standards. We'll be a past culture at some point.

I'm sure they lived and loved, just like we do!


----------



## CajunSunshine (Apr 24, 2007)

sustainabilly said:


> Say, for whatever the reason(s), you had to drastically reduce the amount of stuff you have. Or maybe the amount of stuff you pay for on a regular basis. Maybe even your housing. Could you live in a tent? What would you consider necessities? Luxuries? Would the livestock go, or the internet? Could you deal with the realities of _real_ off grid living? Maybe you lost your job. Could you cut enough expenses to forage, hunt, garden, burn wood for heat,...etc?


I roughed-camped alone for three years while clearing my land to build a home. What I thought would be just a three week camping trip, turned into an education that I would not trade for all the gold in the world.

I found out what I was made of. 

For reasons beyond my control, ALL of my well researched and rock-solid plans turned to pure gumbo-mud. Pretty much overnight.

I cried for a day (ok, a few days), got over myself and set about the business of some hard surviving out in the boondocks in the land of snow and ice (which was something totally foreign for this ol' Cajun girl). I was 600 miles from home, and did not know anyone in the area (yet).

I was broke...no, I was broker than broken. Best laid plans are made of (fill in the blank with your favorite words)...and all that. Could not afford to get a regular supply of propane for my lil' one-burner camp stove, or ice for my cooler (those were reserved for special times). No electric, no phone (cell phones will not work in these mountains), stuck alone in the middle of nowhere... what is classified as a wilderness area on the forestry map... 

BUT! I had enough money to almost always keep me in lamp oil, so I could read my Bible and other books at night to take my mind off of my fears and troubles. Call me crazy, but I chose to spend more of my precious $$ on lamp oil instead of a lot propane for the camp stove, which was so small, it was almost worthless anyway. I reasoned that I could always cook over a campfire--and did--unless it rained a lot. Mmmm...smoke-flavored beans, gumbo and jambalaya in a dutch oven over a hickory fire is awesome! Never mind the puny commercially bottled liquid smoke...the _real _stuff is truly wondermous.

One year later, I tangled with a rabid skunk. That was serious crap. It put_ everything_ else into perspective. I think I have something written about that in my blog (which by the way, I still can't post in it because of ummm...technical difficulties).

I finally achieved my goals of clearing the land, and one tiny baby-step at a time, built my home. It took over ten hard years, but by golly I did it. Along the way, I met friends who helped speed things along. (Thank you sweetly! You know who you are.)

There ain't no easy button, f'sure.

Along the way, in spite of all my extreme care and caution, another rabid skunk made its way into my life. I had to go thru the rabies treatment a second time (five years after the first). 

Later, I got bitten by a durned timber rattlesnake...almost lost my leg and my mind (I managed to avoid amputation but it took six painful months for the swelling to go down and before I was able to walk again without crutches). I don't mind telling you, I am nervous as a sunburned bobcat every time I see so much as a curvy looking stick on the ground. 

Because the local Game & Fish people in this state have a policy of dumping trapped nuisance bears in sparsely populated areas, it was (and still is) a challenge to live among unruly bears that are obnoxious and habituated to people. They were educated by stupid people who leave pet food and garbage cans within easy reach, and so these bears associate people with food. Ugh. Unfortunately G & F microchip the bears before relocating them (for tracking purposes?), so SSS or even Bear Gumbo is not an option. The bright upside of the bear problem, is that this county has the longest bear hunting season in the state! There are still bears Out There with my name on em. I have a recipe for Bear Chili and I am not afraid to use it!

Outdoor living is not for sissies. I also caught Lyme's disease early in the game from the too-friendly ticks (still battling it). After a while, I became convinced that I was just one big Crap Magnet. 

On top of it all, this lil' Cajun found out what freezing cold weather was _all_ about. There were many mornings during the roughest spells of winter, when I woke up with ice on my face (frozen breath?) and my water glass on the make-shift night table 3 feet away was frozen solid with ice. Sometimes the blue plastic 7-gallon water containers that I hauled water in froze solid overnight as well. Mais cher! I never saw such fast freezing in my life. No matter what I did, I never felt truly warm. Sometimes I cried myself to sleep.

But...'taint all bad! In camp during the summer, I got to meet the most gorgeous fireflies. I saw some real honest-to-goodness foxfire and glow worms too! It was pure magic! My crude camp shower had the latest in surround-sound: genuine &#8220;Nature Sounds&#8221; (birds, crickets, frogs, mountain breezes), and natural Pure Mountain air freshener came with the deal, too! No electric or batteries required! There were a lot of unforgettable delights that I enjoyed. These were the &#8220;consolation prizes&#8221; from nature that made it all worthwhile. I will still remember them all, even after I am 98 years old and rocking on a porch somewhere. 

Also, I learned how to keep my food cool without refrigeration, _without_ the benefit of a nice cool creek. I learned how heavy it is to haul water from a distance...uphill. I learned that an abandoned armadillo hole can save HOURS of digging in rocky hard soil for a primitive sewer system. I emptied my lil' &#8220;chamber pot&#8221; into TWO armadillo holes for the entire three years of camping. When I didn't have money to buy lime for odor and fly control, I learned that wood ashes from the campfire worked just as sweet!

The education I got in the school of hard knocks was priceless. As Mark Twain (my hero!) once said: 

_A man who carries a cat by the tail learns something he can learn in no other way._

Financial deprivation and other constraints taught me how to do a lot of things another way. If I had the money or the means to do things &#8220;normally&#8221;, I might have never pursued alternatives on my own.

Now I can honestly say I have a well-rounded education. I already learned more than I wanted to know about urban survival, growing up in New Orleans and later--in spite of my best efforts to evacuate--getting stuck and riding out stuff like Katrina, and plenty of other messes...'nuff said. And because I refused to chicken-out, I can add wilderness survival and so much more to the mix.

There is no substitute for experience. In the hard times to come on this world, I won't be frantically looking for this book or that book to learn the things I will need to know to survive. And as a bonus, I will be able to help others who may need my knowledge about herbal healing, foraging, hunting, fishing, flintknapping, and so on.


So, if life deals a bad hand? There is hope if you really believe this:

_Sorrow looks back...
Worry looks around...
Faith looks up..._


By the way, I am not a big strong guy...just a little old crazy woman, barely over five feet tall, 58 years young...and too stupid to believe anyone who tells me, "it can't be done."



.


----------



## littlejoe (Jan 17, 2007)

You surely were tested Cajun! Wow!


----------



## CajunSunshine (Apr 24, 2007)

Maybe I am part Crap Magnet and part alligator? Once I sink my teeth into something, I rarely let go. I like to finish what I start, no matter what.

Either that, or I am just plain crazy. 

Maybe that's it. They say that the definition of insane is when you're nuts and it bothers you. Crazy is when you're nuts and you like it. lololol! Yep.


.


----------



## Laura Zone 5 (Jan 13, 2010)

What can I do without?

1. New clothes from the mall 
2. TV / Cable
3. A home over 1500 square feet
4. Ever seeing or talking to my ex again

Those are things I could live without.


----------



## homefire2007 (Sep 21, 2007)

I've started from scratch several times, BTDT. Getting a little long in the tooth to do a lot of things I once did...or more likely, just don't care to, again. I live simply. I like running water and electric and it can get rather cold up here in the winter.  I'm a big believer in living the life of your choice, sometimes life can throw us a curve ball and having some first hand experience of lean times and living can come in handy.

Have to have a car to get to and from work. A car always represented independence and freedom to me...I now long for the day it isn't necessary to have one. Never, ever thought I'd say that! Having access to medical facilities is a biggie too. Things can go south in a hurry. I'm still figuring things out and adjusting to kids being grown and leaving nest.


----------



## Guest (Oct 9, 2014)

I could do without bitter posts in which the poster, in clear violation of the rules, uses words that are not allowed, and in other clear violations about ad hominem attacks, call other people "snot nosed kids" That's what I could do without. Matter of fact, I could do without a whole lot of the bitterness. Everybody knows who is bitter and shopworn, no reason to constantly beat the whole world over the head with it.


----------



## newfieannie (Dec 24, 2006)

I must say I haven't seen that "snot nosed kids" but you know in some places people do say stuff like that and they don't mean anything bad by it, it's just an expression. I could be wrong in this case. but I haven't see the post in question. I do know that where I came from a lot of the things we say wouldn't go over well here but mean nothing derogatory to us ~Georgia.


----------



## Ramblin Wreck (Jun 10, 2005)

Well, with the ragweed, my nose has been running a little lately.


----------



## newfieannie (Dec 24, 2006)

I see where Cindi said she's getting rid of her bed. I got to downsize for sure when I only have a small house but I can't get rid of my bed. the mattress is so thick and comfortable. granted it is a large one but pigs might fly! I also have an electric bed that I'd like to keep. the head lifts up and makes it easy to watch tv in bed(did I say I like to watch tv especially winter time?) I was only going to have one bedroom but my son says it's no more expensive to have 2 bedrooms . don't know how he figured that out but he's the construction guy. 

I've been thinking about not being able to sleep in a tent but when we started out they were canvas like the ones they used in the war and I couldn't breathe. maybe I'd have no trouble with the newer ones. ~Georgia.


----------



## Guest (Oct 9, 2014)

newfieannie said:


> I must say I haven't seen that "snot nosed kids" but you know in some places people do say stuff like that and they don't mean anything bad by it, it's just an expression. I could be wrong in this case. but I haven't see the post in question. I do know that where I came from a lot of the things we say wouldn't go over well here but mean nothing derogatory to us ~Georgia.


Check out post number 46 in this thread. You'll see what I mean.


----------



## Peggy (Feb 14, 2010)

I would like to say I could live without TV, Internet, Phone, get rid of one car, dryer, but I would hate to live without hot water. course I don't know for sure unless the grid goes down. I would worry about my 24 yr. old daughter, she is tuned into all things electronic!!!


----------



## tambo (Mar 28, 2003)

msscamp said:


> You're suggesting possibilities, but I've been there and done that. I had 3 dogs and, after my husband and I separated, one of them obstructed. I had the choice of watching her die and paying the rent, or taking her to the emergency vet.* I chose taking her to the vet*. I was evicted because of it. I've heated water on the stove to bathe because I had the choice of paying the electric bill or the gas bill - I chose gas so I could at least cook. I've farmed out dogs to friends because I was homeless, couldn't keep them with me, and visited them in the evenings and on week ends when I could. I've been picked up for invalid tags because I didn't have the money to renew them because I couldn't pay for repairs to meet emissions to get tags. Did without tv or internet, came ---- close to living under a bridge. I've been through the crucible, have you? *These kinds of questions really piss me off because they are usually asked by snot nosed kids who don't a flipping clue!*


You made the choice, you need to own the consequences. I'm sorry you had a rough time but coming here and insulting the members is uncalled for. You may need to direct your anger to the one in the mirror.


----------



## L.A. (Nov 15, 2007)

msscamp said:


> . I've been picked up for invalid tags because I didn't have the money to renew them because I couldn't pay for repairs to meet emissions to get tags.


We don't have emissions to meet in Wyoming,,,,:huh:

Ticketed maybe, for expired tags, but not "Picked up",,

You still break'n horses,,,,seems I remember you from another forum


----------



## CajunSunshine (Apr 24, 2007)

Msscamp, I think you may have completely misunderstood our friend's intent with the original post? Maybe if you really knew what he was after, you would not have written this:




msscamp said:


> You're suggesting possibilities.... .>snipped some of the post out for breviety< ...I've been through the crucible, have you? These kinds of questions really  me off because they are usually asked by snot nosed kids who don't a flipping clue!



He did not ask who had the biggest and baddest âhardship badgeâ but rather, I think he wanted us to examine how resourceful we could be if faced with the kind of things that are certain to come down the pike for most of humankind in the future. Harder times are coming, and we all could benefit from inspiration and encouragement from one another. 

At least, that's the way I took it, and responded with that in mind. 

Phew, looking back at it now, I never dreamed my earlier post would grow to become the longest one I have ever made. I don't know whether to apologize or add to it. So I will do both, lol.

Well, I do want to share a funny that my dear uncle in California told me after the Katrina mess.

One of (of many) reasons why I moved so far away from home over 15 years ago, was to get away from the hassle of hurricane evacuations. Lo and behold, in 2005 I decided to spend the entire summer with family and friends down South...

I think I know how Jonah must have felt, before his shipmates threw him overboard.

While I was visiting, along came more hurricanes in a single seasonâincluding Katrinaâthan we have ever had to contend with at one time! Afterwards, my uncle begged me NOT to visit him in California, because with my magnificent Crap Magnetism, the entire state was sure to slide into the ocean...

:facepalm:


.


----------



## WhyNot (Jun 21, 2011)

msscamp said:


> You're suggesting possibilities, but I've been there and done that. I had 3 dogs and, after my husband and I separated, one of them obstructed. I had the choice of watching her die and paying the rent, or taking her to the emergency vet. I chose taking her to the vet. I was evicted because of it. I've heated water on the stove to bathe because I had the choice of paying the electric bill or the gas bill - I chose gas so I could at least cook. I've farmed out dogs to friends because I was homeless, couldn't keep them with me, and visited them in the evenings and on week ends when I could. I've been picked up for invalid tags because I didn't have the money to renew them because I couldn't pay for repairs to meet emissions to get tags. Did without tv or internet, came ---- close to living under a bridge. I've been through the crucible, have you? These kinds of questions really piss me off because they are usually asked by snot nosed kids who don't a flipping clue!


So really, what this all says to me is we are supposed to feel sorry for you because you've had it rough and because many of us have chosen NOT to articulate the real and true hardships we have endured and simply addressed the question. that the OP and subsequently everyone else is uneducated on actual hardships.

You are so wrong. What you have described above, you have CHOSEN. You chose NOT to pay rent and you were evicted because of not paying rent. NOT because you paid a vet bill but because you CHOSE to not pay rent.

Being a person that has been evicted, I know that in most circumstances it's not because you missed ONE rent payment.

Feel lucky that you had the choice of which utility to CHOOSE to pay. I lived in a tent for most of a year. There were no utilities. I didn't have gas to heat water on...most of the time it was unheated water for everything. 

I actually did sleep under a bridge in Miles City Montana for a week while working in a diner, not having a place to live, no gas for my vehicle, in January.

So...really what is it you are after? A pissing contest because you feel like you have had it worse than others? Don't start because I can guarantee you that MANY people on this site have had it worse and longer than you have.

Suck it up, Buttercup, put your big girl panties on and deal with it. While many of us sympathize, we also realize that a good part of the time our OWN ACTIONS or non actions put us in the situations we get into.

If you want true support for your cause...this is NOT the way to get it.


----------



## Guest (Oct 10, 2014)

I think we should have a giant thread about how hard out lives have been. Now, that would be the mother of all threads, the one to refer folks to, for all time.


----------



## WhyNot (Jun 21, 2011)

zong said:


> I think we should have a giant thread about how hard out lives have been. Now, that would be the mother of all threads, the one to refer folks to, for all time.


 I think most of us have matured past that point. Not all obviously...but most. I tend to see most resentment in ST coming from those that are scarred by love much deeper than scarred by circumstances. I know that is true for me. And I think that is why, by and large, most threads here are about love and relationships and healing rather than how hard life may have been or continues to be in general.


----------



## Guest (Oct 10, 2014)

Still, I remember that time I had a can of beans, but no can opener.......

You know, I've come away from every adverse experience stronger than I went in. I'm pretty proud of turning every beating into a lesson.... and I had a whole lot of lessons.


----------



## WhyNot (Jun 21, 2011)

Exactly. BTW, nice to see ya again Zong. Not sure if you were away but I was and this is the first I noticed that ya posted since I came back...so ..just nice to see you are still alive and all that junk. lol


----------



## Guest (Oct 10, 2014)

Yeah, I'm married now, and busy with the garden all the time, and messing around with farmer's markets. Between all that, I'm actually doing more work now than I did 45 years ago. Still making about $1.60 an hour, though....


----------



## Guest (Oct 10, 2014)

I could do without TV easily. And A/C were I not in a concrete jungle... In the country, with trees, it is different. And close-neighbor's. I could skip them pretty easy.


----------



## littlejoe (Jan 17, 2007)

Reminded me of this.


----------



## Malamute (Sep 15, 2011)

zong said:


> I think we should have a giant thread about how hard out lives have been. Now, that would be the mother of all threads, the one to refer folks to, for all time.


 

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DAtSw3daGoo[/ame]


----------



## hawgsquatch (May 11, 2014)

CajunSunshine said:


> Afterwards, my uncle begged me NOT to visit him in California, because with my magnificent Crap Magnetism, the entire state was sure to slide into the ocean...
> 
> :facepalm:
> 
> ...


You know I live in Kalifornia and that's not a bad idear.............


----------



## hawgsquatch (May 11, 2014)

zong said:


> I think we should have a giant thread about how hard out lives have been. Now, that would be the mother of all threads, the one to refer folks to, for all time.


There was this one time my brand new 4x4 truck was too tall to fit through the drive up at the Starbucks and I had to walk inside to get my coffee. And would you believe that when my caffeine free, fat free, sugar free, cruelty free, green, soy, fair trade, fair wage, sustainably harvested, organic, locavore, vegan, pumpkin latte showed up.............it was SIX SPRINKLES SHORT! I had to go straight to my therapist and have my meds upped.

Take that for hardship.


----------



## newfieannie (Dec 24, 2006)

okay I see it now Zong. ~Georgia


----------



## Forcast (Apr 15, 2014)

Malamute & Hawgsquatch your last posts are WONDERFUL!!!!!!!!!!!! 
made me laugh out loud.
My son married a rich girl (I always told him you can marry a rich girl as easy as you can marry a poor one so just save some time and only date the rich ones). For once a child of mine listened to what I said. My DIL is your Starbucks story in a nut shell. a few years ago I asked them to help me pay my electric bill DIL said oh just put it on YOUR credit card. Gee thanks for that idea now why didnt I think of that. Many years ago my car died and I asked my brother if he could lend me one of many of his cars till I could get another car, my sister in law wanted to know why I needed to borrow a car, so I can get off the hill and to get to the store, I told her. (I live 12 miles one way to the nearest food store) ,she suggested I just order grocerys online. I was so dumbfounded I just hung up the phone. They live in Baltimore me in WVA, we didnt have cable tv or internet out this way back then much less a Pea Pod by Giant! Never did borrow a car from my brother. I guess they thought the order on line idea solved my problem. Those with just dont get the withouts.
But you too really made my day its nice to have a laugh even when its at yourself. thanks


----------



## Guest (Oct 10, 2014)

Malamute, that video is absolutely hilarious! Thank youuuuuu!


----------



## TxGypsy (Nov 23, 2006)

Been there, done that....sheared the sheep, picked the fleece, scoured it, carded it, spun the yarn and knitted the shirt 

I actually live without a lot of modern stuff now....including plumbing which drives some folks absolutely batty. I've had other things that were bigger priorities. I don't at all mind living rustically. I even enjoy cooking over an open fire and love cooking on a wood cook stove.....just not in Texas in the summer time!

The things I'd miss would be internet, my kindle, and my tractor. Only thing that is absolutely indispensable is my little dog. He's been with me through thick and thin.


----------



## MoonRiver (Sep 2, 2007)

I could do without jury duty next month.


----------



## neverfear (Sep 26, 2006)

I pulled into Nazareth, I was feelin' about half past dead
I just need some place where I can lay my head
"Hey, mister, can you tell me where a man might find a bed?"
He just grinned and shook my hand and, "No", was all he said

Take a load off Anny
Take a load for free
Take a load off Anny
And you put the load right on me
(You put the load right on me)

I picked up my bag and I went lookin' for a place to hide
When I saw Carmen and the Devil walkin' side by side
And I said, "Hey, Carmen, come on, would you like to go downtown?"
And she said, "Well, I gotta go but my friend can stick around"

And take a load off Anny
Take a load for free
Take a load off Anny
And you put the load right on me
(You put the load right on me)

Go down, Miss Moses, there ain't nothin' that you can say
'Cause just ol' Luke and Luke's waitin' on the Judgment Day
"Well, now Luke, my friend, what about young Anna Lee?"
He said, "Do me a favor, son, won't you stay an' keep Anna Lee company?"

Take a load off Anny
Take a load for free
Take a load off Anny
And you put the load right on me
(You put the load right on me)

Crazy Chester followed me and he caught me in the fog
He said, "I will fix your rags, if you'll take Jack, my dog"
I said, "Wait a minute, Chester, you know I'm a peaceful man"
He said, "That's okay, boy, won't you feed him when you can?"

Take a load off Anny
Take a load for free
Take a load off Anny
And you put the load right on me
(You put the load right on me)

Catch a Cannonball, now, to take me down the line
My, my bag is sinkin' low and I do believe it's time
To get back to Miss Fanny, you know she's the only one
Who sent me here with her regards for everyone

Take a load off Anny
Take a load for free
Take a load off Anny
And you put the load right on me
(You put the load right on me)


----------



## CajunSunshine (Apr 24, 2007)

hahaha...Malamute's video needs to be in HomesteadingToday's library (if there should ever be such a thing).

That, and the popcorn-eating deer (antelope?), lol.





Edited to add: There's no library for this kind of thing here, but I did the next best thing and put the video (with a hattip to Malamute) in a resurrected thread called HomesteadingToday Dynamics. 

Perfecto!



.


----------



## msscamp (Sep 8, 2014)

littlejoe said:


> Did you pay your vet bill?


Yes - all $300 of it. 24 to 48 later Cia Marie came home a much happier dog.


----------



## msscamp (Sep 8, 2014)

L.A. said:


> We don't have emissions to meet in Wyoming,,,,:huh:
> 
> Ticketed maybe, for expired tags, but not "Picked up",,
> 
> You still break'n horses,,,,seems I remember you from another forum


You are correct, but at that time I was living in Georgia.


----------



## txtransplant (Oct 15, 2014)

I left my 114 year old farmhouse in iowa and moved to tx and now live in and am restoring a 40 year old holiday rambler camper. I do still have 2 of the horses but no utilitiy bills at all. Boy talk about cutting back on just things. Everything has its place and it goes back there as soon as you are done with it. we actually didnt lose internet although it is included in rent. So we have netflix and hulu and buy episodes of whatever show on amazon. The cars are paid for and no credit cards so not a whole lot to cut back really. I have lived on solar and wind before and still had internet, water and power.


----------



## Sourdough (Dec 28, 2011)

WOW........just read this for first time, and very impressive. No, extremely impressive.



CajunSunshine said:


> I roughed-camped alone for three years while clearing my land to build a home. What I thought would be just a three week camping trip, turned into an education that I would not trade for all the gold in the world.
> 
> I found out what I was made of.
> 
> ...


----------



## doingitmyself (Jul 30, 2013)

I like electricity, running water, a flush toilet, and instant turn the knob kitchen stoves. I have been without all of these in several different instances. Seriously bad frozen and burst pipes and flooded and frozen pump house for 3 months, busted utility poles for three weeks straight , ( which lead to the frozen and flooded pump house) and no LP for 2 months cause i was paying for heat at the shop instead of at home to keep $ coming in. No LP for the forge, switched to charcoal for a few months. Actually taught me a new kind of heat control.

I didn't do any of it for fun, it was what i needed to do then to keep things going. It changes how you look at modern conveniences, i never leave a light on, i take really fast showers, my home is now heated almost exclusive with wood. I can live without the modern things, but i certainly do enjoy em all. Utilities are cheap when you learn what it takes to make your own electricity. Conservation is key. A good attitude is the difference between the experience being a pain or an adventure. Boy was i glad when the utility poles were back in place and the local grid was back up and running!


----------



## Oldshep (Mar 28, 2015)

1 Internet can go,
2 Electricity can go 
3 One vehicle can go

Really, everything can go accept the property tax. That could go too but my family would be homeless which is not acceptable to me, at that point I'm a desperado.

I could get rid of the horse and cow. We could probably just focus on gardening for most of our food and we could live on a small flock of sheep, a few chickens and vegetables.


----------



## newfieannie (Dec 24, 2006)

kwym dim. I lost power sunday before last when lightning took out a transformer. gone for 5 hours. yes I got by. I cooked my friends breakfast with this canned heat. I had several of them. I had 2 camp stoves but they were out in the country. boy was I glad when it came back on. 

I couldn't do it not in this situation. with him. my washer and dryer is going practically non-stop. going out there now as a matter of fact. by myself it would be different. I've gone through it all and I'm certain I could again while I stay in good health but not when I don't have to. I do like my comfort. I disconnected from satellite some months ago and don't miss tv at all. ~Georgia


----------

