# Dexter's vs. Angus



## georgiarebel (Jul 7, 2005)

I've got a small homestead (10acres) that's my little slice of heaven. Want to fully immerse myself into the country lifestyle by raising a few cattle. We've got the property fenced and have been researching breeds of cattle that would work best for small acreage. From what I've read about Dexter's they seem to work best, but I've had a hard locating them in my area (Georgia). I've also read more Dexter's can be kept per acre than other cattle. Due to not being able to find any I've just about changed my mind on Dexter's, and decided to go with the more prevalent cattle in my area being Angus. Is this a smart move for me, or should I keep searching. How many Angus can I keep per acre compared to Dexter's? Any info on how I should start my herd is greatly appreciated!

Thanks,

GR


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## Hovey Hollow (Apr 25, 2005)

A tip on finding Dexter's:

Go to www.dextercattle.org
Go to the online pedigree page. Enter your state in the search engine. 84 registered Dexter's turned up for Georgia. Under each of those animals is the name of the owner and breeder. Many have e-mail address listed as well as a phone number. Most people I have run across have been very willing to talk to you about their cattle. If you are willing to travel a bit try punching in surrounding states. 

Another great place to talk to people about Dexters is"
www.dakodan.net/dexters.forum

I am just getting into these great little cattle. I put a deposit on my first cow a few weeks ago and she was bred this last week. I will be getting her in August. I have met some really wonderful people online who are very passionate about this little breed. I do have a little Angus bottle calf. He is very squirrelly!!! We have tried to get him halter broke, but he just dances around, steps on my feet, is hard to approach in the pasture, etc. I know my one little calf doesn't make me an expert, but from what I have learned about Dexter's is they are alot calmer and friendlier. 

Good luck on your endeavor. I hear you about the little slice of heaven. :angel:


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## Paula (Jun 3, 2002)

We've had Dexters for about 4 years now. My husband and I have also had dairy cows and regular beef breeds for most of our lives. We like the Dexters. They are very calm, easy calving, do well on marginal pasture, few health probs., etc., but there are some downsides to raising them that we never hear discussed. First, the bulls aren't worth much unless you are dealing with a really popular line. The cows and heifers bring much more than bulls. If you are breeding to sell, the low value of the bulls brings down your bottom line. With regular cows you can just drop the young bulls off at the sale barn and get a good price for them. If you take Dexter bulls to the sale barn you get almost nothing for them because people have no idea what they are. They think they are just some kind of weird stunted cow. This goes for selling cows and heifers too. Can't sell them through regular channels. To sell them you have to be willing to do some marketing - advertise on the boards, in the assoc. newsletters, etc., and be willing to spend a lot of time speaking with/emailing lots of potential buyers, most of whom end up not buying your cows. It can be very time consuming and frustrating - at least for us, as we are both about as far from the salesman type personality as you can get.
Even if you are just planning to keep a couple of cows for milk and meat, eventually you will have to sell something unless you plan to butcher heifers as well as bulls. That's tough to do when a heifer/cow is easily worth $1000. Again, if you raise regular beef cows you will get a good price for them at the sale barn with no effort. You don't get as good a price for regular dairy cows at the barn because people assume they are sick or something is wrong with them if you're selling them there. But they are pretty easy to sell by just putting an ad in your local paper.
You could market young bulls/steers to the public as grassfed beef, but that involves a lot of effort too.
I guess it just depends on your personality as to whether Dexters would be a good breed for you.
DH just came in to see what I was doing, read this post and said to tell you that Dexters make good hobby cows, terrible commercial cows. 
I don't mean to be negative about them, we really do like the cows themselves, they are near the top of our list as far as that goes. They just present a marketing problem for us because we hate doing that stuff.
Something to keep in mind if you do end up going with regular cows - black cows or black white-faced cows (translate angus or angus/hereford cross) always bring more at the sale barn.
As to how many cows/acre, it's better to ask around locally as conditions vary so much. Even then it depends on the quality of your particular pasture.


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## Carol K (May 10, 2002)

Try the sites that Hovey gave you, you can find people on the online pedigree for your State just like Hovey says that should be able to help you. Don't give up on the Dexters, I'm sure you would regret it, they are great cows for the homesteader. If you still come to a dead end then email me, I'll find you something for sure  

Carol K


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## Hovey Hollow (Apr 25, 2005)

Carol K is one of the many very very helpful people on the forum I mentioned.
Hi Carol!!!


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## quailkeeper (Aug 18, 2004)

Yes Carol is one of the nicest people here!! I definitely had to second that!! And I also have to go with the Dexters. I have raised reg. angus and dexters within the past two years. I prefer the dexters which I now raise. In fact, they are extremely addicting and I intend to buy another bred cow in February. For a strictly large beef breed the angus would be on the bottom of my list. They were small framed and slow growing. At a year old the bull calves would weigh in at 500-600 lbs. I sold a three year old cow that weighed 800 lbs. This dexter bull calf I have is 6 wks old and weighs 225 lbs. He is going in the freezer. They also make a great milk cow. His mother weighs 550 lbs and gives about 4 gallons a day if I milked her completely out. As far as running bull calves thru the sale, you just need to run them thru at an early age so that people just think they are young angus or something. However, I have not heard of anyone having problems selling their dexter bulls to individuals. I have already had two people ask me about the bottlefed bull calf I intend to sell and I haven't even advertised him.


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## quailkeeper (Aug 18, 2004)

Oh and angus are generally one to 1-1.5 acres of good pasture. Dexters are two per acre.


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## georgiarebel (Jul 7, 2005)

Thanks everyone for the info and advice. It warms the heart to know there are still others willing to help a stranger out. Yall have restored my faith in Dexter's. They should work fine for what we need to provide meat for the family, and sell a few on the side. We should be able to manage a half a dozen on the acreage we have now. We've got access to another 10, but would like to get our feet wet first. 

If anyone should hear of a breeder selling Dexter's in the Southeast please drop us a line. Also seeking any advice on how we should start our herd (Cow/calf, Three for one, Cow to Bull ratio). 

All of our knowledge so far is from books so please forgive our ignorance. We've got to start some where and its a blessing to have such a knowledge base to turn to such as this.

Thanks,
GR


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## Richard ~ (May 19, 2005)

GR,

Here's a couple of other Dexter sites that may be a help to you:

Purebred Dexter Cattle Association of North America
http://www.purebreddextercattle.org/

Dexter discussion group:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/dextercattleonly/

Good luck!

Richard ~


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## quailkeeper (Aug 18, 2004)

A bred cow is probably your best and cheapest way to start. I started with a cow/calf pair, a heifer calf, and a bull calf. The bull calf will be up for sale and I am replacing him with an unrelated bull calf. If you get a young bull calf you can start with just one or two cows. Make sure you have good fences if there are neighboring bulls. Dexters can have difficult births sometimes die calving if they are bred by something other than a Dexter bull. I was told even if they were bred by an angus bull it can still cause them to die or lose their calf. Just a word of warning.


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## pointer_hunter (May 8, 2004)

Hovey1716, I love that search area for dexters. :rock: 

I ran a quick search for Michigan and it looks like John Potter is the Ruler Supreme for the area. Does anyone have any information on his Dexters?

Didn't mean to hijack the thread.


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## Carol K (May 10, 2002)

Hi Guys, small world huh!!

Pointer, John Potter is The American Dexter Cattle Societys genetics guy and is a wonderful source of information on Dexters in general. His cattle are very nice and you wouldn't go wrong buying from John. That ADCA online pedigree search is an awesome tool Isn't it.

GR, starting with a couple of bred cows or even a couple of heifer calves will be a good start. You can learn from the calves, train and do that bonding thing! If you start with older cows, buy halter trained if you can. There's nothing worse than not being able to get near your cows if they are not tame and you are new to them.
Post a wanted add on the dakodan site and see if you get some leads.

Carol


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## Richard ~ (May 19, 2005)

pointer_hunter,

Keep in mind that an online pedigree is a recording and so animals and in some cases breeders listed may now be deceased. It's probably better to use a breed association's membership listing in searching for cattle currently available.

I used to own a Potter bull and experienced some dystocia problems but the bull did have an exceptionally good temperament.

Homesteaders on the west coast thinking about getting started with Dexters might find the basic workshop, Friday, July 15th, in Orland, CA, to be helpful. Information about the various cattle educational programs can be found on the PDCA website under 2005 AGM & Show.

Richard ~


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## quailkeeper (Aug 18, 2004)

I have a cow that was bred and raised by John Potter. She is the one that gives 4 gallons a day. She is an exceptional cow!! She has a very slick coat, nice muscling, throws awesome calves!! The bred cow I intend to buy next spring will be AIed by Cinnabar which is one of Potter's red bulls.


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## Carol K (May 10, 2002)

The ADCA online registry is superb to look up animals and do pedigree research, you can use it for so many things. Keep in mind that Richard is from a splinter Dexter group, so he may be being political, which is sure not needed here.

Like I said, if you need further help finding stock, let us know.

Carol


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## Richard ~ (May 19, 2005)

Carol K,

I realize that since the ADCA split apart that you see everything as political in trying to promote what that organization became but actually I was thinking of someone asking for Paul who passed away several years ago and his wife Linda having to explain that he died and that they no longer have Dexters. So my thought was of not bothering a widow or someone that may no longer be breeding Dexters by using a progeny tracking system. Rosemary has organized an online Dexter pedigree for the PDCA just as she did for the ADCA and I'll tell everyone the same that its use is for tracking Dexter progeny and not current members. If someone contacts the PDCA they are sent an information packet along with a current membership list. This is the way the PDCA helps to put buyers and sellers together but if the ADCA uses their online pedigree for this then I apologize for not recognizing that's how the ADCA now handles inquiries. I believe that it's important for someone starting out to gather as much information about a breed they're interested in as possible. The fact is there are two Dexter cattle associations in America and even if this goes against your political inclinations Carol, you can't try to stifle this information by making political accusations on every board. I've been promoting Dexters for the past 16 years and will be for the next 16 years god willing. So get used to me being around, although not on the Dakodan board that you moderate.  Let the people here gather ALL the information in making their choices and in finding their cattle regardless of _your_ politics. 

Richard ~


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## Carol K (May 10, 2002)

Richard, Hovey tried to help a potential newcomer find Dexters by telling them to use the ADCA online registry for their State to get the names of some breeders in their area. You just did the usual stuff you generally do to try and promote your Dexter association by putting the other one down. No one said that is how the ADCA "handles their enquiries" that's just you looking to play your silly political games again.
Richard, I don't have a problem letting anyone know that I help Moderate the Dakodan site, It's a great place for Dexter information, there are many PDCA members that go there, so what's your problem? I notice you didn't tell people that YOU are second Vice President of the PDCA either, hmmm. It's a free world on the internet Richard, promote away to your hearts content, people will make their own choices in the long run. 

Carol


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## Hovey Hollow (Apr 25, 2005)

Oh please, not here too!!!!!!!!
We've had a major bru-ha-ha over in the poultry forum in the last couple of days. Please can't we all be friends? (or at least friendly?)
Thanks,
Deedra


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## Richard ~ (May 19, 2005)

Carol,

Perhaps Hovey wasn't aware that there's a membership listing of Dexter breeders by state on both association websites. Surely even you can see that using an online pedigree which is inclusive of animals and breeders that may or may not any longer be with the association could be considered deceptive and less helpful in locating Dexters than a current membership listing. If being honest is considered a put down of your association then so be it.

I never flaunt my title because I know that eventually you will Carol.  Certainly it should be obvious to people that I promote and support the PDCA and not the ADCA. This perhaps was more bothersome to you than my suggesting that a membership listing may be a more appropriate means to search for Dexter breeders than a progeny tracking system. Maybe instead of turning this into a PDCA versus ADCA for Hovey's sake you should pick on Angus. 

Richard ~


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## Hovey Hollow (Apr 25, 2005)

I'm sorry, I should have mentioned the membership list instead of the pedigree search. I'm not an expert and I should have just kept my mouth shut. I don't even have my first Dexter yet. I'm getting her in August. I shouldn't be giving other people advise.
Just please don't fight.
Thanks,
Deedra


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## Carol K (May 10, 2002)

Deedra you did a fine job trying to help, don't worry about anything else. Richard if you'd like to keep this up take it to my e mail and keep it off this homesteading board for the sake of people that really don't care to see this.

Carol


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## Richard ~ (May 19, 2005)

Don't worry about it Hovey, you're not to blame. Enjoy your Dexter(s).

I think we already covered it Carol, but you're free to email me as well any time you feel the need again.

Richard ~


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## spring77 (Feb 6, 2004)

well, I hope the original poster sees the way her thread degenerated into a fist fight. you two sure make a compelling case for avoiding Dexters merely because the people who own them are uncivilized and nasty. HT is not the place to hash out your bad blood.


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## Carol K (May 10, 2002)

Spring,
People have disagreements all the time, while I agree that this cattle forum is not the place to go too deeply into breed politics (and that's why I asked the other poster to continue on email), there is also no need for you to step in and call ALL Dexter owners " uncivilized and nasty", that's not so, you seem to be just looking to promote it, just let it go without being rude and nasty, please.

Carol K


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## IMContrary (Sep 22, 2004)

Carol K said:


> The ADCA online registry is superb to look up animals and do pedigree research, you can use it for so many things. Keep in mind that Richard is from a splinter Dexter group, so he may be being political, which is sure not needed here.
> 
> Like I said, if you need further help finding stock, let us know.
> 
> Carol


Carol sounds like you are the one being political and causing problems. I don't have Dexters and nothing to do with either group, so have no interests either way. Richard was just offering other info that might help this person find she what she was looking for. You were the one that had to bring politics up. It is a free forum and he can recommend whatever he likes, just as you can. Remember you are not offering a good example of your particular Dexter registry and people will remember that. Richard on the other hand didn't say a bad thing about your registry...why are you putting down him and his?


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## Carol K (May 10, 2002)

IMcontrary,
it would take me too long and it's not the right place to fill you in on something you don't really want to hear if you are not involved in the breed. Sorry you got the wrong impression that I put the PDCA down somewhere, I looked at my posts and couldn't seem to find where you were seeing that. If you are interested in Dexter politics by all means you can email me and I'll try and help you understand what went on and can refer you to some sites that will help you understand.

Carol K


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## quailkeeper (Aug 18, 2004)

I think it is unfair to call all Dexter owners "uncivilized and nasty". All your doing is adding to the mess. I have met four other Dexter owners two of which are with the PDCA and they are ALL some of the nicest people including Carol. The ADCA is an excellent resource and has many pictures. I was so excited when I got to see a picture of the cow I am buying next spring on there. I also got to see a pic of Cinnabar who she will be bred too. There are a lot of hard feelings between the two groups although I am at a lose what it was all over. I personally believe that when time has healed their wounds it will join back into one registry again and then none of this will matter. I think we should get back to the original questions here and let georgiarebel take back her thread.


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## georgiarebel (Jul 7, 2005)

quailkeeper said:


> I think we should get back to the original questions here and let georgiarebel take back her thread.


Its actually "his" thread but the whole family uses this site, so no biggie  

I had heard there was somewhat of a riff among Dexter owners, but don't really let politics influence my decision making. We are mainly looking for Dexter's for the family (meat & milk), because we have small acreage (10 acres). At the moment our plans are to keep the cows for ourselves, and possibly sell a few by word of mouth to friends and family once processed and packaged. We have plans to purchase more acreage in the near future and if our dreams of being cattle farmers come true we may switch to a more money making breed (I.E. Angus) 

Appreciate all the advice and info. Look forward to learning as much as possible from all members. We enjoy meeting new people and have never met a stranger.

GR


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## agmantoo (May 23, 2003)

georgiarebel,
Certainly get the type cattle that trips your trigger! However, remember that the amount of forage that you can produce per acre determines how many pounds of cattle you can feed. I am not a hobby farmer. I raise cattle to sell and to make a profit. Therefore, I suggest you reconsider the Angus as your choice. You may not be able to run as many head but you can produce as many pounds of beef and beef that has a more demand at the sale barn by using the Angus. As you are considering acquiring more acreage you can be building your breeding stock by initally going with the Angus. I strongly suggest that you start considering rotational grazing to maximize your potential. Regardlesss, good luck with your venture!


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## astrocow (Mar 11, 2005)

We raise Dexters and breed our cows to a Galloway bull. The resulting calves grow fast and are quite beefy. There's just something about the Galloway breed that makes them fit so well with the Dexter to produce such amazing calves for the freezer. We like the Dexter because they are calm and we aren't overwhelmed with a huge amount of beef for our small family.
Just my two cents.


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## quailkeeper (Aug 18, 2004)

Oops sorry GR  Here is my experience with angus vs. dexters. An angus weanling calf sells for around $500-$650. A dexter calf sells for $600-$850 heifer $500-$800 bull. The dexter is more than a hobby. There are more and more people wanting to raise their own beef and milk and the dexter makes it easier. Most people don't have a lot of land or a lot of money to feed a Jersey or Holstein. And you can raise a dexter up to two years old and not have to worry about a ton of meat. Sorry but I raised the angus for five years and then fell in love with the Dexters. Does it show?  I could go on and on about the differences.


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## Widow Jams (Aug 8, 2004)

If you are looking to raise Dexter cattle for the "commercial" market, you should do MUCH research with as many of the larger Dexter breeders as possible. ( In either association). The Dexter breed is a "heritage" breed, and it has not been very long ago that they were on the minor breeds list because they were few in number here in the USA.

Dexters are not a miniature breed, but a naturally small breed of cattle, ( much like the original Aberdeen Angus which I'd personally choose over the Angus of today). The Dexter steaks in my freezer will NEVER be found on a plate served to you at the top steakhouses. ( Or you will likely be heard to ask " where's the beef?".

However, for the niche beef producter, or grass producer, the Dexter offers wonderful opportunity because the meat is really delicious, and breeders who have developed programs for selling their beef direct to customers, ( either on the hoof or deliverd to the processor) seem to develop demand they have to continually struggle to meet. 

I personally would never have an Angus in my pasture, but I'm hooked on Dexters, and I like spending time with and around my cows, because they are intelligent and interesting, and often amusing/comical in their antics.

If you are buying Dexter cattle because you have ANY interest in their heritage status and/or in preserving the breed, I suggest that you do some research on blood lines, so as not to discover down the road you have animals that trace back to upgraded imported lines ( outcrossed to other breeds), and if "purity" is important in your pedigree, than DO ask questions.

Potential new Dexter owners for whom an association has importance, might be interested in the fundamental differences in the two associations. One Association ( ADCA) is governed by officers and a board of directors, and the members have no direct voice/vote in decisions, the other Association (PDCA) is governed by the members who have the final vote/voice in all decisions.

The poster who used the term "splinter" would have been more accurate in using the term "tree trunk" in the comment regarding one of the associations.


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## Carol K (May 10, 2002)

Maybe this post from another site will help explain some of the "purity" issues the previous poster mentioned. Read the whole post if you can.

http://www.dakodan.net/dexters/forum/viewtopic.php?t=922

Carol


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## Richard ~ (May 19, 2005)

For those interested in researching Dexter cattle one of the best resources on the internet is:

http://www.dex-info.net./

Published articles regarding issues such as chondrodysplasia and purity can be found here:

http://www.dex-info.net./summaries.htm

The person that maintains the website is from New Zealand. Another good neutral Dexter discussion board that I like is the one from the UK:

http://www.dextercattleforsale.co.uk/cgi-bin/iboard/ikonboard.cgi/

Richard ~


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## georgiarebel (Jul 7, 2005)

Posted my want ad for Dexter's in the Southeast on dakotadan's tonight. Wish me luck. We'll be sitting on pins and needles until we get our first cows. Heck we got our first chickens (3 partridge rocks) last week and wanted to have a party after our first egg. Hope to have horses and pygmy goat soon too. Sounds crazy I know. We moved to the country about two years ago. Had only one regret that we didn't do it ten years ago. We go kicking and screaming if we ever had to move back to the city. 

GR


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## twstanley (Sep 23, 2004)

Georgiarebel, a guy on the dakodan message board named dollarlessbill always has some dexters for sale and seems to be hauling them all over the country selling them, he just posted a message with some for sale, you might check with him.


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## Paula (Jun 3, 2002)

The Dexter cows Bill posted are the last couple he has. He says he's getting out of cows. Don't know about hauling. The bull and cow listed are the best he had - his favorites. I would be very surprised if he still has them by this time. I think I saw that post last week?


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