# What would you do?



## CKB3 (Dec 5, 2013)

We have agreed to finally purchase our first chunk of land! We are getting 7.2 acres in Western WI. The previous owner said that nobody is using the land, and one of the contingencies I put in was I wanted the land to pass a perc test. Well I went out to the land the other evening and there are soy beans growing. There is nothing in the purchase agreement about letting someone else farm our land, but after bringing it up the previous owner said "oh yeah! We had a verbal agreement that he could farm it this year." The farmer is going to be quite upset in 2 weeks when the perc testing company comes out with their equipment and digs holes in the middle of the field.

I told my realtor to inform the previous owner that he needs to inform the farmer of the testing and that the previous owner must reimburse the farmer for damage to the crops. I also said that I want it in writing that he will cover the damages. Is there anything else I should ask about or mention?

Also the farmer is using the land rent free. Is it fair to ask him to pay some land rent? I am unsure of this one.


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## edcopp (Oct 9, 2004)

CKB3 said:


> We have agreed to finally purchase our first chunk of land! We are getting 7.2 acres in Western WI. The previous owner said that nobody is using the land, and one of the contingencies I put in was I wanted the land to pass a perc test. Well I went out to the land the other evening and there are soy beans growing. There is nothing in the purchase agreement about letting someone else farm our land, but after bringing it up the previous owner said "oh yeah! We had a verbal agreement that he could farm it this year." The farmer is going to be quite upset in 2 weeks when the perc testing company comes out with their equipment and digs holes in the middle of the field.
> 
> I told my realtor to inform the previous owner that he needs to inform the farmer of the testing and that the previous owner must reimburse the farmer for damage to the crops. I also said that I want it in writing that he will cover the damages. Is there anything else I should ask about or mention?
> 
> Also the farmer is using the land rent free. Is it fair to ask him to pay some land rent? I am unsure of this one.


What is going on with the farmer and the owner is none of your business. Now lets not complicate things YOU do not own the land yet. 

Be aware that a realtor is not a lawyer and can not draft contracts, especially for you since you are not the owner.

You do have a right to suggest proposals for your purchase agreement. The seller has a right to agree or not. You have a right to buy or not. You have no involvement with the farmer.

Slow down a bit do not overstep your bounds, and the transaction may get worked out in your favor (or not).


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## TerriLynn (Oct 10, 2009)

Just wanted to throw my 2 cents in here about the farmer having soy beans on the land that you are thinking about purchasing.

You may want to think twice about charging a farmer rent for 7 acres or less that he has his soybeans on.......could start things off on the wrong foot.....that farmer could be quite the asset to you......farmers have equipment and other things you might find useful...manure, hay, straw, or even sometimes woodlines that need to be cleaned up that could provide you with much free heat for your home.

Sometimes you can get more value by being friendly, most people don't forget that you did them a good turn and usually if you then need something and ask nicely, they will bend over backwards to return it.


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## CKB3 (Dec 5, 2013)

edcopp said:


> What is going on with the farmer and the owner is none of your business. Now lets not complicate things YOU do not own the land yet.
> 
> Be aware that a realtor is not a lawyer and can not draft contracts, especially for you since you are not the owner.
> 
> ...


Well, actually what's going on with the farmer and the owner is my business. We already have a purchase agreement in place and he had said that nobody has permission to use the land when this purchase agreement was written. We close on it in a few weeks, and I noticed the other night that there are indeed crops growing on the land. 

Part of that purchase agreement is contingent on the results of a perc test which will be done soon. Don't you think the farmer would want to be alerted to the fact that there will be a backhoe driving across and digging up his crops?

Now, after we already have the purchase agreement in place the current owner remembered that he had given the farmer a verbal agreement to use the land. So this all impacts the owner, the farmer, and myself. 

And no lawyers aren't the only ones who can draft a contract. They are the ones who determine where the holes are in the contracts, and help resolve disputes in the contract. 

If they were then how would any purchase agreement be binding?


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## CKB3 (Dec 5, 2013)

TerriLynn said:


> Just wanted to throw my 2 cents in here about the farmer having soy beans on the land that you are thinking about purchasing.
> 
> You may want to think twice about charging a farmer rent for 7 acres or less that he has his soybeans on.......could start things off on the wrong foot.....that farmer could be quite the asset to you......farmers have equipment and other things you might find useful...manure, hay, straw, or even sometimes woodlines that need to be cleaned up that could provide you with much free heat for your home.
> 
> Sometimes you can get more value by being friendly, most people don't forget that you did them a good turn and usually if you then need something and ask nicely, they will bend over backwards to return it.


I honestly don't think I will. I don't mind if he uses it this year since we aren't building until next spring. That and he is our neighbor a few houses down so like you said, better to start off on the right foot. 

Thanks for the advice!!


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## oregon woodsmok (Dec 19, 2010)

Unless the laws in your area are out of step with the rest of the country, you won't be able to take possession of that land until after the crops have been harvested. If you go through with the purchase, be sure the farmer gets a notice in writing and by registered mail that he loses possession as soon as the crops are harvested and he is not to plant another crop or to do any soil preparation where he might lose value.

You want to try to keep on good terms with the farmer but it is up to the seller to make arrangements for the perc test and for the seller to compensate the farmer.

Don't just hope everything will come out OK. Get everything in writing. The farmer with the crop planted has some legal rights.


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## Guest (Jun 12, 2014)

Just my own 2 cents:

Imagine for a moment that you are the farmer...you are watching the weather, tracking the market, hoping and praying for a good harvest and those dollars in the bank...what would you want done.? 

I'd want a voice in where that perc test was going to be done in order to minimize loss of my crop..I'd certainly want to be treated as if someone cared a whit about me...the more voice a person has the happier they are.


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## CKB3 (Dec 5, 2013)

bostonlesley said:


> Just my own 2 cents:
> 
> Imagine for a moment that you are the farmer...you are watching the weather, tracking the market, hoping and praying for a good harvest and those dollars in the bank...what would you want done.?
> 
> I'd want a voice in where that perc test was going to be done in order to minimize loss of my crop..I'd certainly want to be treated as if someone cared a whit about me...the more voice a person has the happier they are.


Oh I totally agree. My biggest frustration has been that it seems that I'm the only one who wants to talk with the farmer.


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## CKB3 (Dec 5, 2013)

oregon woodsmok said:


> Unless the laws in your area are out of step with the rest of the country, you won't be able to take possession of that land until after the crops have been harvested. If you go through with the purchase, be sure the farmer gets a notice in writing and by registered mail that he loses possession as soon as the crops are harvested and he is not to plant another crop or to do any soil preparation where he might lose value.
> 
> You want to try to keep on good terms with the farmer but it is up to the seller to make arrangements for the perc test and for the seller to compensate the farmer.
> 
> Don't just hope everything will come out OK. Get everything in writing. The farmer with the crop planted has some legal rights.


Great info! Thank you!! So would that be in effect even if that wasn't a part of the purchase agreement?


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## Stonybrook (Sep 22, 2007)

I think they only need to perc test the area where you might be putting in a leach field. Personally, I am not sure I would want to deal with this seller. I'd wonder what else he failed to tell you.


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## edcopp (Oct 9, 2004)

CKB3 said:


> Well, actually what's going on with the farmer and the owner is my business. We already have a purchase agreement in place and he had said that nobody has permission to use the land when this purchase agreement was written. We close on it in a few weeks, and I noticed the other night that there are indeed crops growing on the land.
> 
> Part of that purchase agreement is contingent on the results of a perc test which will be done soon. Don't you think the farmer would want to be alerted to the fact that there will be a backhoe driving across and digging up his crops?
> 
> ...


Let us know how this comes out.


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## Nimrod (Jun 8, 2010)

If you really want to deal with this seller after the carp he pulled, I would talk to the farmer and get written permission to have a crew come in and do your perk test at no cost to you for damaged crops. If the farmer won't agree to this I would bail on the purchase agreement if you can. 

If a competent realtor drew up the purchase agreement they put in all sorts of contingencies and escape clauses. You might be able to break the purchase agreement because you can't get the perk test done providing there is a contingency that requires it. The contingency I liked was the one that said you got to inspect the land the day before the closing and void the purchase agreement if something had changed. Suddenly finding soybeans planted on the property you want to buy is certainly a change from how it was represented to you.

I would be more concerned about the quality of the well water you can tap into. I know the aquifer around Roberts is bad.


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## jamo (Jun 6, 2002)

At the very least the farmer should not be asked for rent. He was farming this land before you came into contract with the farmer. Let's be fair.

Why do you need a backhoe for a perk test? We didn't. All you need to find is the depth of water and the run off stage. I think that you're making this way more difficult that it should be and this probably isn't the piece of land for you.


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## Darren (May 10, 2002)

I'd wonder how long the property has been farmed and the pesticide use that goes along with the beans. You may want to do more than just a perc test. Where's the water coming from for your home? Are there any medical issues in the area? I'd back up, expand my list of things to check out greatly, and do a lot of research.


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## Taylor R. (Apr 3, 2013)

The seller's non-disclosure could be grounds for terminating the contract if you so choose (depending on your state's disclosure laws).


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## DAVID In Wisconsin (Dec 3, 2002)

CKB3 said:


> Great info! Thank you!! So would that be in effect even if that wasn't a part of the purchase agreement?


Yes. You need to proceed carefully even if you take ownership of said property because the tenant farmer has certain rights regardless of what is on paper.


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## oregon woodsmok (Dec 19, 2010)

CKB3 said:


> Great info! Thank you!! So would that be in effect even if that wasn't a part of the purchase agreement?


Yes. He planted that with permission. He's got a huge amount of money invested. You can't just come along and push him off and take the crops. Not only would it be a terrible thing to do to him, he is protected by law, so that you can't do that. Although check your state laws, I know what the law is here, I don't know what the law is where this property is located.

Unfortunately, the perc test has to be done in the spot that you want your septic tank. You can't just do it in the spot where it will disrupt the field the least.

OP, you need to get into contact with this farmer and see what you can work out with him. At this point before the sale closes, it is the seller's responsibility to compensate the farmer for damage to his crop done by the perc test.

Incidentally, just to complicate things, if the seller took rent in advance for the entire year for the crop land, he has to prorate that rent and turn over the portion of the rent for the rest of the summer and the fall to the buyer. The seller can't receive rent for land he doesn't own. Once you own the land, the rent is yours not his.


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## Molly Mckee (Jul 8, 2006)

Be sure you know the law regarding notification that the farmer can't use the land next year. Many states have a legal notification deadline. If you don't let the farmer know before it, he has the legal right to use the land next year, even if it's just a gentleman's agreement. I would go and talk to the farmer or call him. He will be your neighbor. The seller won't.


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## ChristieAcres (Apr 11, 2009)

Taylor R. said:


> The seller's non-disclosure could be grounds for terminating the contract if you so choose (depending on your state's disclosure laws).


 This is correct! 

Since the Contract includes a Perc Test as a Contingency, then it is the Seller's responsibility to contact the Farmer and also compensate that Farmer. Until the property is purchased, the Buyer has zero rights to contact the Seller or Farmer directly. The Buyer informs his Agent to notify the Listing Agent when the Perc Test will be done. The Listing Agent must then confirm the Perc Test with the Seller. That Seller's responsibility is to notify the Farmer (but no one can force him to...). His Listing Agent can only request he notifies the Farmer. Sounds like an Addendum regarding the Soy Beans is in order... Per most States, the Purchase closes, but the Crops remain the property of the Farmer. Unless there is a Contract with the new Owner, the Farmer has no further right to farm. The exception has to do with a Farm Lease. If there is only a verbal agreement, I would recommend an Agreement be written up, Prior to Closing, that spells out clearly the Farmer retains no Rights after the Crop is harvested. That Agreement should be done via an Attorney and it should be included with your Closing. This all insures there is no misunderstanding.


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## Molly Mckee (Jul 8, 2006)

In WA state you have to notify the person farming that his rights are terminated by Nov1, unless the law has changed in the last few years. This is true (with other dates) in many states, so be sure you follow through.


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## ChristieAcres (Apr 11, 2009)

Molly Mckee said:


> In WA state you have to notify the person farming that his rights are terminated by Nov1, unless the law has changed in the last few years. This is true (with other dates) in many states, so be sure you follow through.


 The Farming Right is addressed Prior to Closing, so that becomes unnecessary.


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## zukgod (Jan 28, 2007)

I hope things are turning out well for you. Some folks jumped you for asking questions, which in my opinion really need to have answers. I am a retired agent from Washington state, and can tell you that this seller could be in a heap of trouble for not disclosing this to begin with. As for the perk test, it does need to be done correctly or you won't get your septic done. You need to look out for yourself here, this is a large investment get everything in writing. You don't need an attorney involved unless people get snotty, a simple addendum to the P&S agreement will be just fine. Make sure that addendum states that the farmer has no rights to said land after this current crop of soy beans is harvested. And that all lands impacted by said harvest be returned to pre planting condition. Make sure there is some money to compensate you if and only if the farmer does not follow through with his end of the agreement. The main issue here is that you are really dealing with a 3 party deal, because the farmer is kind of like a renter of a home, it's up to the seller to deal with him, but if you close on the property and things are not in writing and go south it's your issue then. I would also like others have said test the land for everything. If renting out the land to a farmer slipped this sellers mind what else has he forgotten? I really find it hard to believe that someone would forget that someone had rented a parcel of land for a season. Would you forget if you had someone renting your home you were selling? No is the answer. There is more to this story, make sure you get to the bottom of it. And don't let anyone make you feel like the bad guy here, you do what you need to do to take care of your investment, but by all means try and make friends with the farmer the last thing you need is to have an upset neighbor before you even move in. This guy may turn out to be your biggest asset around you. Good luck, feel free to PM me with any questions.


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## ChristieAcres (Apr 11, 2009)

zukgod said:


> I hope things are turning out well for you. Some folks jumped you for asking questions, which in my opinion really need to have answers. I am a retired agent from Washington state, and can tell you that this seller could be in a heap of trouble for not disclosing this to begin with. As for the perk test, it does need to be done correctly or you won't get your septic done. You need to look out for yourself here, this is a large investment get everything in writing. You don't need an attorney involved unless people get snotty, a simple addendum to the P&S agreement will be just fine. Make sure that addendum states that the farmer has no rights to said land after this current crop of soy beans is harvested. And that all lands impacted by said harvest be returned to pre planting condition. Make sure there is some money to compensate you if and only if the farmer does not follow through with his end of the agreement. The main issue here is that you are really dealing with a 3 party deal, because the farmer is kind of like a renter of a home, it's up to the seller to deal with him, but if you close on the property and things are not in writing and go south it's your issue then. I would also like others have said test the land for everything. If renting out the land to a farmer slipped this sellers mind what else has he forgotten? I really find it hard to believe that someone would forget that someone had rented a parcel of land for a season. Would you forget if you had someone renting your home you were selling? No is the answer. There is more to this story, make sure you get to the bottom of it. And don't let anyone make you feel like the bad guy here, you do what you need to do to take care of your investment, but by all means try and make friends with the farmer the last thing you need is to have an upset neighbor before you even move in. This guy may turn out to be your biggest asset around you. Good luck, feel free to PM me with any questions.


 As a currently licensed Managing Broker in real estate, I concur and have already recommended an Addendum addressing the Current Owner notify the Farmer (of course, it can contain wording of Notification). The Contract is not between the Farmer and the Buyer, but the Owner, so there can be no Agreement of any kind between the Farmer and the Buyer included in the Contract between the Seller and the Buyer. Since an Agreement would be wise and prudent, given the circumstances, I would still recommend an Attorney be contacted to insure there is an Agreement between the Farmer and the Buyer (outside of the Purchase Contract). The way things are these days..., I would not entrust Agents or the Escrow Officer to handle this. The situation would have been different, had there been proper Pre-Disclosure. Of course, you and I can still see it differently, so I respectfully end on that note. 

CKB3 - You need to refer directly to your Realtor as the one who is representing you. Any feedback any of us have given, is nothing more. In addition, you can contact the Escrow Officer to inquire about this...


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## sammyd (Mar 11, 2007)

I wouldn't kick the renter off this year but I would ask that you receive a pro rated amount of the rent from the seller.
Make sure the renter has notice in time to be legal that he will not be renting your land next year.


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## K9Dave (Jul 4, 2014)

Just go talk to the Farmer and I bet you'll find out most of the answers to your questions. Can't hurt to make a friend with farming equipment and you could find out about his farming practices (chemicals used or not?) and might find out something else valuable about the land. This likely will be your community if the sell goes through. Bring some coffee and see if you like this farmer is my suggestion. 

Growing up in Texas and Louisiana, we took care of our neighbors because they will eventually take care of you. If you need to go on vacation or something they're they are ready to feed and tend to your animals for you and you return the favor later. Run out of feed? Neighbor. Farming assistance? Neighbor. Split a cow or pig for butchering? Neighbor. 

Good luck on your search. Don't settle just because it's "land". It's a big investment and make it your dream investment for that money. 


Sent from my iPhone using Homesteading Today


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## farm_friendly (Jul 17, 2014)

If you decide not to kick him off, you might want to at least make sure he has liability insurance on that land. Your land, he or someone else gets hurt on his equipment, you could have a problem. Just something to think about.


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## CKB3 (Dec 5, 2013)

All worked out!!! We closed on the land, the previous owner will compensate the farmer for damage to the crops, and the farmer is cool with not using the land next year. Now we get to start planning our homestead! Hopefully we can build next spring!


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