# Compact Hay Balers for Compact Tractors



## Up North (Nov 29, 2005)

Some folks express a desire to find hay balers that can be used with smaller, lower horsepower tractors.
Ran across this info for those who have an interest:
www.smallfarminnovations.com

I am neither recommending nor criticizing the product, just passing on the information that it's available.


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## rambler (Jan 20, 2004)

You did look at the price sheet.........

Problem is you can buy a good used old tractor for $4500, a round baler for $2500, and use much less twine. Plus have about 1/2 the money invested in the baler & tractor that you would have in that small baler.

Nice site tho, good info.

--->Paul


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## bassflyrodder (May 6, 2007)

Does anyone know what the average power requirements for the older square balers are?

Thanks,

Pete


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## sammyd (Mar 11, 2007)

You can get by with 35 HP pulling a wagon on fairly flat ground.
I bale with a JD 24T and an Allis WD


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## brosil (Dec 15, 2003)

I'm using a Farmall H with an Oliver 520 twine baler and it works well. It shakes a bit but I'm going to try sharpening the plunger knife and ledger knife and see if that works easier.


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## RosewoodfarmVA (Oct 5, 2005)

A 30 HP older tractor pulls an older square baler just fine!


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## Pouncer (Oct 28, 2006)

It isn't the size of the mower and the landscape, it's the pto to run the baler. With the right combination, 540 PTO can work, 11(whatever) is for the larger tractors. I ran a 50H JD, with a Hesston baler (now that's a HEAVY machine!) for a number of years....540 PTO. It would run most farm equipment but not a round baler I don't think? Used a spreader, a mower/conditioner, tedder and rake too, plus the baler. Got about 400 bales to a roll of twine,


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## Rockin'B (Jan 20, 2006)

rambler said:


> You did look at the price sheet.........
> 
> Problem is you can buy a good used old tractor for $4500, a round baler for $2500, and use much less twine. Plus have about 1/2 the money invested in the baler & tractor that you would have in that small baler.
> 
> ...


....and then either pay to have them repaired or learn how to do it. Some folks are not real handy that way. 

But, your point is a good one.


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## rambler (Jan 20, 2004)

bassflyrodder said:


> Does anyone know what the average power requirements for the older square balers are?
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Pete



Old good square baler needs a sturdy heavy old tractor. Hp is not the issue. The baler stores 50 hp or so in it's flywheel. As well they are heavy to pull or stop, and the plunger rocks them back & forth. mostly we like to pull 100 bale wagon behind them.

This all takes a utility class or better tractor of 35 hp or more.

One can get by with 25 hp or so, but it is not fun. It's getting by.

More important to baling is to have several gears, slow ones, to choose from.

And live/ independent pto. You need to stop the tractor from moving but keep the pto running with the clutch in to clear through thick spots of hay.

So, a 25-30 hp compact tractor won't do it - rip up the drive train of the tractor.

An old Ford or Farmall of 27-28 hp can bale, but often doesn't have the right gear speeds and without live pto it's really hard to bale well.

Something from the late 1950s on with live pto and over 30 hp will work well.

--->Paul


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## wy_white_wolf (Oct 14, 2004)

And just think there was 2 older square balers on freecycle here recently. I would have taken them just don't have the time right now.

I would much rather spend the 13 thousand on a tractor than a baler.


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## Up North (Nov 29, 2005)

rambler said:


> You did look at the price sheet.........
> 
> Problem is you can buy a good used old tractor for $4500, a round baler for $2500, and use much less twine. Plus have about 1/2 the money invested in the baler & tractor that you would have in that small baler.
> 
> ...


Rambler - Some folks enjoy the good fortune of having been around farm machinery & tractors, and have the shop tools and know-how to correct a problem on short notice and get a field baled up before rains sweep in and ruin a valuable crop.
Other folks might be experts on how to administer surgical anestheisilogy(which I obviously know nothing about since I can't even spell it, LOL), but repairing and maintaining older machinery may be a mystery to them.
For some folks, a new machine sized to the Compact tractor they already own that produces a hay package they can handle may just be the right fit. Any new machine carries a high price tag. But you have to divide that price out over the years of service a machine provides, and then subtract off the salvage value at the end of it's use to arrive at a true cost.

I'm just glad I live in America where there are so many choices available


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## Scrounger (Jan 6, 2007)

Dad baled with an IH "H" for years with no problems - except the *$#@*&% piece-o-junk IH baler he had.

I know of a man near here that baled with a PTO driven baler and an 8N for years. It was flat ground and no wagon, but he did it up until 3-4 years ago when he retired. 

If you just GOTTA have a baler to run behind your yuppie......I mean......new compact tractor, then an older Allis-Chalmers Roto-baler will work just dandy. It makes small, light round bales that you can handle easy. Once you learn how to stack them, they work great.


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## MELOC (Sep 26, 2005)

a compact baler would be nice for my small fields, but certainly not at that price. the loss allowed by using the old bulky machines still doesn't justify spending that much for a small baler...even factored over ten years.


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## sugarbush (Jul 15, 2007)

buy an old baler, they work just fine with low hp tractors.


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## horsefarmer (Jul 12, 2007)

My intention is to run a 14T with a 15hp motor mounted on it. That motor will be only for the baler. My horses will propel it through the field. Now if they happened to be looking for testers, I'd be willing to sign up!!


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## lewbest (Sep 25, 2005)

Hope I don't stir up a hornet's nest here but if anyone considers an old baler I'd suggest a wire tie instead of twine. Years ago I bought an old twine baler (twine a lots cheaper than wire) & never could get it to tie dependably. I recently bought a very old (probably 60's vintage?) John Deere 214WS wire baler. No owner's manual but found the manual on ebay. Baled with it the last coupla days with no major problems.  In the manual (which covers both wire & twine versions) there are 5 pages in the service section concerning troubleshooting the twine tie mechanism; only one page concerning the wire tie mechanism. Sure tells me the wire system should be more trouble free!

Lew in TX


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## sammyd (Mar 11, 2007)

Good lord...wire tie...I hated those things. Uncle used one cuz he sold the bales to be shipped far away. I think we could only stack em 3 high, just too heavy to do any more.



> My intention is to run a 14T with a 15hp motor mounted on it. That motor will be only for the baler. My horses will propel it through the field. Now if they happened to be looking for testers, I'd be willing to sign up!!


Now that's the way to go. The Amish do it up here. Even seen em running brand new forage harvesters with a power unit in front. Course they needed a few more horses cuz the chopper boxes get pretty heavy.


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## horsefarmer (Jul 12, 2007)

You can actually convert a 14T to ground driven with a big ag wheel turning the belt wheel but it takes 5 very willing to work horses (they usually use six all abreast) and you need perfect windrows cause there isn't any stopping and waiting for the throat to clear. If you are moving forward, you aren't turning the baler mechanism. That would actually be my preference but I can't yet justify that many more pulling horses. Now if I had a neighbor who saw things my way, we could share and help each other but alas, I am a leper in a community of giant, articulated tractor users. Their loss.


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## lewbest (Sep 25, 2005)

sammyd said:


> Good lord...wire tie...I hated those things. Uncle used one cuz he sold the bales to be shipped far away. I think we could only stack em 3 high, just too heavy to do any more.


This one can be adjusted for smaller bales; according to the book from 12 to 50 inches long. I'm guessing these are bout 3-3.5' long; haven't measured them. Just started baling after a good greasing & putting the wire rolls on it.

Lew


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## rambler (Jan 20, 2004)

I'm not telling anyone what to do. all options mentioned here work. 

Wire tie balers fell out of favor locally back in the early 50s around here - before my time.I think I have seen 2 of them in my lifetime.

I understand the could pack more hay tighter - so the bales indeed should be much heavier. This made them popular out west, where shipping hay was important.

Anyone who used hay on their own farm just hated the wire. Bales heavy, metal bits in feed, and so on.

I don't know of a store around here even selling wire any more. As a little boy, I remember the last bundle of wires dad used up for handy use around the farm - was binder wire actually. He was happy to be rid of the wire tie baler long before then.....

As to the new round baler vs an old one - either one will break down, a NH, Vermeer, or JD baler I can have any part I need on my farm in 30 minutes to 24 hours. And lots of people that can explain the problem over the phone to me.

Those new tiny round balers are imports from China or a Soviet Bloc nation, and parts - what parts? Hope you can find a metal shop to fab what you will need..... Just my opinion. 

--->Paul


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## lewbest (Sep 25, 2005)

Here in TX square bales are pretty uncommon nowadays (virtually everyone uses big round bales which are twine or net wrapped) but all the squares I've seen are wired. Wire is more expensive but I haven't seen a twine baler (square baler that is) in YEARS! I'm sure it's due to regional preference.

I use the aquares as I just have a small area to bale & will use it to feed my 5 miniature donkeys (well, 6 soon; got a baby just over a week old that will be after her share soon I'm sure)! 

Lew in TX


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## woodsrunner (Nov 28, 2003)

I baled many a bale with a Case VAC and an old International square baler in my youth. The guy I worked for always had several balers in the hedgerow and two ready to roll any time they were needed. I don't think he ever paid more than $300.00 for a working machine. That was 20 years ago.

My big concern with these balers. I break late today and tomorrow it's going to rain. Where are my repair parts, how soon will I see them, and what will they cost? Am I going to lose a crop because I bought an expensive toy, just to have something new. Or am I going back to the barn to get my back up machine.

And I don't buy the argument you don't have to be mechanical inclined by buying a newer machine. They still break, and they don't break when the crop is sitting in the mow. they break when they need fixing now.


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## sugarbush (Jul 15, 2007)

horsefarmer said:


> My intention is to run a 14T with a 15hp motor mounted on it. That motor will be only for the baler. My horses will propel it through the field. Now if they happened to be looking for testers, I'd be willing to sign up!!


That is cool...... I am remembering back when I was a kid we had an old square baler that had a pony engine on it......it was factory that way to do exactly what you are wanting to do. I wish I knew what make and model it was, but at 8 or 9 I just really didn't care. It was one of our back ups and we didn't use it much, but I do remember using it at least one summer a few times.


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## Scrounger (Jan 6, 2007)

Wire tie balers, for the most part, went the way of the Do-DO bird a long time ago. You can still find them on an auction OCCASIONALY, but they are covered in 2" of dust because they have sat for years. You can still buy the wire, but it is expensive. Wire tie balers also leave little bits of wire in the field and/or in the hay. Most guys here are using the round bales - only the smart ones use the square bales.


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## lewbest (Sep 25, 2005)

If anyone in or near Massachusetts wants a square baler for a small tractor there's a Ford on ebay now for 250 bux starting bid. It has its own engine; probably so a small Ford (8n, 9n?) could run it. Item number is 250153285294; 6 days+ to go. These engine powered balers do show up rather frequently on ebay.

Lew in TX


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## lewbest (Sep 25, 2005)

Scrounger said:


> Wire tie balers, for the most part, went the way of the Do-DO bird a long time ago. You can still find them on an auction OCCASIONALY, but they are covered in 2" of dust because they have sat for years. You can still buy the wire, but it is expensive. Wire tie balers also leave little bits of wire in the field and/or in the hay. Most guys here are using the round bales - only the smart ones use the square bales.


I'd still say it's regional; around here all one sees is wire tied square bales; haven't checked but would be almost willing to bet that you'd have to special order a twine tie here to get a new one.

Lew in TX


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## horsefarmer (Jul 12, 2007)

I actually have been in e-mail communication with this company just recently as well as a year or so ago. I think they appear to make a decent product. Yes, they are China imports but they will service and are looking for dealerships. If had the money, I'd give them a try and they are working on a self-motored version as well. That site also has some nice looking mowers on it pretty reasonably priced.


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## sugarbush (Jul 15, 2007)

Scrounger said:


> Most guys here are using the round bales - only the smart ones use the square bales.


I beg to differ; square bales = labor and labor = lost revenue. The smart ones round bale unless they are feeding horses.


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## sammyd (Mar 11, 2007)

Those little round balers sure are cute. And with the self contained hydraulics they have would work nice behind a lot of the older iron as well as the new stuff. And the smaller bale would be nice for smaller setups where you get spoilage and waste cuz the animals can't eat a big round fast enough to keep the weather off it.
14 grand for a baler is bit out of my price range tho....unless I could find a lot of those horse people to buy my hay.


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## M88A1 (May 21, 2012)

Some of those smaller round balers are china and I would pass on that. There are also brands from Japan (also from Japan, Kubota, Honda, Toyota) and Italy where they have manufacturing quality. Europeans have been operating those small round bales for 50 some years. If someone has a low HP tractor and can afford a new small round baler I don't think that puts them in the Yuppie category.


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## FarmboyBill (Aug 19, 2005)

My Case Bailer is wire tied. It has a Case engine set sideways on it. 4 cyl air cooled. That's all that the square bailers I saw, and all the square bales I saw in OKLA unless someone had trucked in a load from Kansas or somewhere else.


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## Super55 (Apr 9, 2014)

Right now there about 4 manufacturers that make small round balers. Caas, abriatta, Star and china-made ones. The china made one are an exact duplicate of the Star balers that were made in japan. I don't know if Star decided to produce in china or a china company bought them out or if they just decided to duplicate Star. 

Mine is a china made baler and overall it looks to be pretty well constructed. Put it simply the baler is pretty simplistic in its design compared to a square baler. Completely self contained unit. Everything runs off the PTO including the hydraulic pump. It says it needs 12v hookup to the tractor but I later found after using that isn't even necessary because all it does is work a 12v buzzer to let you know the chamber is full that you can run off of a 9v smoke detector battery. 

Some parts are cheap though I will admit. The wire used is just thermostat wire probably 26 ga. definitely cheap, The buzzer is cheap and did break on me my second use. Got a generic replacement on amazon for 3 dollars and the access panels have a little sag and have to lift them a touch when re-closing them. 

My total cost was half the price of a similar sized baler manufactured in the EU so I figured it was worth the risk to go with a china made product. Not everything they make is crummy. Most likely the computer, tablet or phone your reading this with was made from there. 

I looked long and hard at a square baler but in the end the small round fits my needs better. While my tractors could handle a square baler I didn't like the idea of how every time the hay pusher cycles it sends a shock back up the driveline into the tractor causing that typical "lunge" with the tractor. I kind of went with the mentality if something has to go I rather it be the baler than the PTO/transmission in the tractor. 

The one thing about these balers is that they don't tax the tractor at all. Gross weight is about 850# and I don't think a 20 hp tractor would even have a issue running the baler. All your doing is running a bunch of rollers spinning the hay in a circle instead of packing and compressing it like a square. I was really amazed at how simple the design is. Honestly the knotter on a square baler has more complexity than this whole baler does. I like the idea that I can see everything and don't have to worry about timing.

There is a little bit of a learning curve with these that I had to learn on my own accord though. One was the twine tensioner is a little finicky to tune in and the other was spooling the twine out a certain way. This baler doesn't knot it just wraps with twine and triple wraps on the ends. Once the lever kicks down to twine the bale it merely works on friction between the bale and the rollers in order to twine wrap it. Too much tension and the twine won't feed through and if the "memory" of the twine has it facing away from the rollers it sometimes has difficulty feeding. 

I would never advocate this baler for someone who plans on doing large scale baling. It's just too slow and small. But if someone was looking to do small scale hay because they enjoy tractor time, have smaller compact sized equipment and/or have small parcels where large equipment becomes a hinderance these things become pretty appealing.


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## FarmboyBill (Aug 19, 2005)

Them look like the bales AC usta make with their Roto-Bailer. You couldn't pay me to pick them up again.


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## coolrunnin (Aug 28, 2010)

FarmboyBill said:


> Them look like the bales AC usta make with their Roto-Bailer. You couldn't pay me to pick them up again.


There to big, and no you couldn't pay me enough either...


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