# LGD Breeding Journal



## GraceAlice (Jun 7, 2013)

I figured I would make this thread to maybe help educate or antertain  others. This is my first time breeding dogs, so it will be good for me to have all of this written down somewhere.

It all started 3 weeks ago.

On February 3rd, we noticed Annie was puffy "back there" and bleeding. Obviously knew she was in heat.

February 11th, we walked out the door to the most horrid screeching. I thought a car had hit a deer on our road. Upon further inspection, Annie and Silas had tied. I didn't dare do anything to help! They were standing out in the snow looking miserable.  Poor things. After 7 minutes, they finally detached, lol.

Almost immediately, Annie was acting super tired. Lying down all day, not jumping up to greet us, not eating much. All pregnancy symptoms. Her personality was very different for the first week, as you can sometimes expect with pregnant dogs I've read.

After week 1, she went back to her normal, playful self. She was still not eating well, but enough. I started feeding her people food and good smelly things mixed with her regular food, which she loved!

The 11th was the only time we saw them tie. They were mating very very often but only tied on the 11th. So if I were to base her pregnancy on the 11th, she would be on day 20. Almost 3 weeks along! 

I'm so very excited and anxious. I know things don't always go as well as we would like them to, but all I can do is hope and be prepared!  She is due on April 16th.

I will get pictures up soon!


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## GraceAlice (Jun 7, 2013)

I've been cooking her food every night... This time it was gravy.


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## GraceAlice (Jun 7, 2013)

She's actually already looking a little pregnant even at 23 days. Wondering how many puppies are in there! Fur on her belly is getting thin. .. Good signs!


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## GrannyCarol (Mar 23, 2005)

You could have an ultrasound done at four weeks along if you want to know for sure. There is some small margin of error, but usually the vet can find any puppies and often get a good count for you. 

Do you have a plan for where she will whelp? For her health and the lives of her pups, she should be monitored while she whelps and have a warm, clean and secure place to do so. If she has problems, she may need emergency veterinarian help (been there done that!). You'll want to supervise that she has settled down well with the puppies and is caring for them properly. Added to that the puppies should be plump and rosy if they are eating well and the right temperature. They should be quiet and relaxed - cold puppies will be tense and fuss and even scream like seagulls (if they do that, you should get help, something is really wrong). Usually when a ***** won't settle with her pups and they all fuss and cry, she has one stuck or has an infection and should be seen by a vet. Infections from a placenta that doesn't clear properly show up about day 3, so if she goes 5 days and all is calm, you are in pretty good shape. 

Just for information's sake - normally when they are tied, I hold them to keep them from moving too much. It isn't likely, but it is possible for them to harm one another while tied if one gets too frightened and panics. 

By all means, ask any questions you have, feel free to PM me. I'll be glad to advise you as best I can long distance. Although I've been retired for a long time, I was a dog breeder and have decades of experience.


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## Maura (Jun 6, 2004)

Do you have homes for them? If not, start getting the word out. If you can get deposits on a couple you are ahead of things. If people won't put down a deposit, then you can't promise them a puppy.


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## GraceAlice (Jun 7, 2013)

She will be whelping in a clean, warm, cozy stall in our barn that will be properly secured and comfortable for her to nest/whelp in. 

99% sure she is pregnant by now. She is definitely filling out and her nipples are swollen and pink... which I hope means she's pregnant, otherwise I don't know what it would mean, lol. She is due in a month. She has definitely slowed down and is playing a lot less, she has picked up on eating and is getting a special diet everyday, lol. Fairly sure I felt something in there yesterday, but I could definitely be wrong! 

I will have to get some pictures up by the end of this week, she should be looking pregnant by then. Very excited!


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## GraceAlice (Jun 7, 2013)

So she is starting to look more filled out than she used to, If that makes sense!


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## BlueRose (Mar 7, 2013)

What is the breed? Second on getting a waiting list going for pups.


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## GraceAlice (Jun 7, 2013)

I already have a waiting list. 

Anatolian /pyrenees. Pups will be 7/8 anatolian and 1/8 pyrenees.


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## GraceAlice (Jun 7, 2013)

Yay. .. Her "teats" are swelling up and are very easily detected. ..


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## GraceAlice (Jun 7, 2013)

What time can you start to feel puppies?


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## GrannyCarol (Mar 23, 2005)

You can palpate for pups at about 3 - 4 weeks. Gently run your hands along her sides behind the ribs so that you can just feel your opposing fingers. This really only works when they are relaxed. You might be able to feel little almond like slippery lumps that would be developing puppies. Much past this and her uterus will fill out and you won't be able to discern them until about 7 weeks. At that time you could start to see moving lumps as she is laying down, its always very exciting. If you want to do an ultrasound, 4 weeks and after is a good time and will get you a decent count of pups, though its not entirely accurate. X-rays aren't much benefit until near the very end.


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## GraceAlice (Jun 7, 2013)

So she is 40 days pregnant, would I be able to feel anything? Thank you! I'm trying to learn as much as I can without asking!


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## GrannyCarol (Mar 23, 2005)

Well, you are after the palpation stage and a bit before the more obvious one. If she will lay down and relax, you can gently put your hand on her abdomen behind her ribs and see if you can feel movement. 

Why would you not want to ask? There are some really experienced people here that are quite helpful.


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## GraceAlice (Jun 7, 2013)

Thanks again.  I will try tomorrow, I just don't want to injure then somehow. 

Oh, it's not that I don't want to ask, I just don't want to load this thread with obvious questions!


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## GrannyCarol (Mar 23, 2005)

You won't hurt them feeling gently around. Just don't squeeze and poke. Move slowly, you'll need a fairly gentle pressure to be able to feel anything. I was always good at the 28 day mark and at the end, but not so much in the middle. Others could tell more than I, but the uterus will be pretty swollen by now. Still a baby kick is a wonderful thing, you might get lucky and feel some flutters.


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## Maura (Jun 6, 2004)

You know, once you get past 1/2 and 1/2 you can't really say how much of one breed and how much of another. I would just say that the puppies have a great grandparent that is Great Pry. When they are born take a few pictures, and thereafter a week apart.


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## GraceAlice (Jun 7, 2013)

How is that possible? Dad is 1/4 pyrenees, wouldn't that make puppies 1/8? 

I'll take as many pictures as I can. .. lol. I could never take weekly pictures, that's so far apart!


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## Maura (Jun 6, 2004)

I'm sure someone else can explain this better, but here I go.

You have a GP and an A. Their puppies are the F1 generation and have 50% GP and 50% A. Then you cross one of the F1 with an A sire. We know that all of the sire's DNA is Anatolian, so 50% for sure A. The dam has 50% GP and 50% A. How much of that DNA is from the GP and how much from the A? In the F2 generation you don't know. You only know that there is a mix on that side of the equation. Now, the next generation, you have the same thing. The dam has more than 50% A but may still have GP.

For instance, I had 3 Black Welsh Mountain ewes which have a dominant black gene. They were bred with a Corriedale ram who carries white and silver. All six lambs were coal black. They all had one white or silver gene from Santiago and one dominant black from their mothers. 50% and 50%. The ewe lambs were then bred to a Corriedale ram, same thing with white and silver. Six black lambs and one surprise white lamb. So, the five black lambs all had Grandma's dominant black gene. The white lamb did not have Grandma's dominant black gene from her mother, but two Corriedale white genes. So, in the matter of color, that little girl did not have any Black Welsh Mountain genes.

Beautiful fleece, by the way; I'm spinning some up today.


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## GrannyCarol (Mar 23, 2005)

On the other hand, for simplicity, most people would have some idea that it means that the pups might have some Pyr genes and characteristics. I doubt you need to be THAT picky in the matter of a cross like this. I take it you aren't out to create a new breed?


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## GraceAlice (Jun 7, 2013)

I'm just calling them 1/8 pyrenees because no one is going to care that much about exactly how many genes are coming from who. If they do, they can go get a dna test done on the puppy.


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## GraceAlice (Jun 7, 2013)

I tried to feel the pups moving yesterday. Flipped her on her back twice. She is certainly pregnant though!


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## GrannyCarol (Mar 23, 2005)

I found it easier to feel when the ***** was either standing or laying on her side. On her back won't work so well.


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## GraceAlice (Jun 7, 2013)

Oh alright, for some reason everyone told me to get her on her back. Well I'll try again today! Thanks!


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## GraceAlice (Jun 7, 2013)

I felt puppies!  Today is day 42. I palpated her. I put a hand on each side of her lower abdomen and gently pushed them together. There was always a 6 inch space in between both hands. Something is in there, lol! I'm fairly confident that I felt them kick once or twice. It was hard to tell because Annie wouldn't stop moving.


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## GraceAlice (Jun 7, 2013)

Pictures. ..


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## GraceAlice (Jun 7, 2013)

Day 46-

I have not been out yet, but supposedly I should be able to clearly feel puppies now. I will go out later today and mess with her. She's such a sweetie! 

I do have one question. I figured it's time to get prepared for the actual whelping process. Better sooner than later. What supplies do I need? Right now, this is my list. .

1. Towels
2. Suction bulb
3. Scissors
4. Tooth Floss for tying cords
4. Some sort of puppy collars to tell who is who. 
5. A plastic tub to separate pups while she has the rest of them
6. Puppy milk replacer; colostrum replacement and a bottle just in case. 

What else do I need? I will, of course, have the vet's number written down! He does house calls.


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## CAjerseychick (Aug 11, 2013)

Maura said:


> You know, once you get past 1/2 and 1/2 you can't really say how much of one breed and how much of another. I would just say that the puppies have a great grandparent that is Great Pry. When they are born take a few pictures, and thereafter a week apart.


Isnt that the truth-- here is my boy- same mix- GP and anatolian, crossed for a couple of generations with other GP/anatolians--

this is interesting explanation and explains alot (I was wondering myself)... am following the pregnancy, cant wait to see the pups!


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## OakHollowBoers (Jun 26, 2013)

The "tub to separate pups while she has the rest of them" probably won't get much use - if you take the puppies away, she is likely to be upset. Whelping usually takes hours, and the dog is rather fond of her puppies right away. But could be useful is something goes wrong and you have to pack everyone up for a trip to the vet.

Dental floss - good to have, but probably won't need, the mom should do a pretty good job herself.

I pretty much help to get them dried a little, check gender, and make sure they find a spot at the milk trough.


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## GraceAlice (Jun 7, 2013)

Okay, thank you for letting me know. This is my first litter, and I've heard lots of differing opinions about that. Some people say if you don't seperate them, she will lie down and squish them to death... is that wrong? I hope it is! That's why I never want to bredd pigs, I didn't expect dogs to do the same, lol!

Well, I have dental floss so I will keep it out there just it case. I have a lot of this stuff from kidding/lambing. You don't need to dip cords do you? Sorry for the silly questions!

Day 49 -

It makes me happy to write that... her due date is so close! It feels like it has been years since I started this thread, haha. I'm so anxious. I just love my "little" Annie. Trying to do the best I can for her and the puppies!

She is SOOO hormonal right now. Goodness sakes. Silas can do as much as look at her wrong and she snaps at him, teeth showing and everything. That girl can turn evil in a second, LOL...

She is also very lazy. When I check on her, she is almost always flopped over on her side sleeping. She doesn't come when I call anymore because she doesn't want to get up. She won't walk with me, stops to sit down every 2 seconds. She hardly ever lets me feel her belly while she is standing up because she wants to sit down. She cracks me up sometimes.

She isn't even that big! She looks like she will have 2 or 3 puppies right now! I hope she has more than that... and I hope she "fills out" in these last two weeks. She's due on April 13th, actually. I have to be gone all day on the 11th, no one will be here to watch her. If she is acting like she's close right before we go, I'll shut off all plans and stay with my baby, lol! I will also be checking her temp so I should have a fairly good idea of when she is close. 

For her whelping "box", we are using straw bales. Lining them up to make a square that she can get in and out of but the puppies can't get out of. Does she need blankets and soft things or can she just whelp on straw? I would imagine she would rather have blankets. I would if I were her.


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## Maura (Jun 6, 2004)

Babies grow exponentially the last week, or last few days. If she is only carrying four, though, she's not going to get humungus. Say a prayer to the puppy angel for her.


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## GraceAlice (Jun 7, 2013)

Oh, okay, that makes me feel better! Prayer said. 

She's so funny! She looks so sad! 

Her nipples have like a three inch "fatty mass" behind them. No milk, just fat. They weren't like that a week ago.


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## GrannyCarol (Mar 23, 2005)

I like to clean out the mouth of every pup with a clean wash cloth to be sure they don't inhale birthing fluids. Also I keep a nasal aspirator on hand to clean out the nostrils and throat of any pup that is wet or having difficulty breathing. I would have blankets for her to whelp on that you can remove and wash. 

She should have something soft and solid that she can't dig up and bury pups while she is whelping and while they are tiny. I used to put towels over pegboard in a dog crate for my Silky Terriers for instance. Pups are basically helpless for the first couple of weeks. A ***** can roll on her pups, most don't. If you have some sort of rail around the edge the pups would slide under it if she's moving around and loses one. 

You will want to watch her very closely for at least three days. If she has a pup and doesn't pass the placenta (each pup has a water bag, the pup, then the placenta) or some tissue is left behind, it can go septic and cause a uterine infection. This can cause a lot of pain and usually shows up about day three as a tomato soup (dark red and thick) discharge, bad smell and pain in the mother. The first three - four days is the highest risk for mother and pups. I usually slept with them in the room with me so if a puppy squealed or they didn't settle comfortable, I knew immediately and could take action. Never got much sleep the first week of a litter.  

If she passes a water bag and no puppy and no real action within 15 mins or (after the water bag) she starts to strain strongly then quits, she needs a veterinarian. Generally the ***** will pass or break a water bag, rest a few minutes, then strain hard and whelp the puppy, then the placenta. If the puppy is stuck, she will quit labor and you'll have a problem. Not so likely in a large ***** like her, but even my English Setters sometimes has very large pups (esp the first one or in a small litter) that they had problems whelping. 

A good fast clean whelping rarely has followup problems and the mother will settle down with her pups very comfortably when done. A mother that doesn't settle either isn't done or has a problem. I liked my bitches to get an oxytocin shot shortly after whelping to be sure they were cleaned out and the toy breeds got antibiotics too. If the ***** has a slow drawn out stressful whelping, I would watch them extra carefully. 

Walking a ***** can encourage her to go back into labor, as can gentle exterior massage of the uterus. Massage can also help her to pass a placenta by causing contractions. Nursing puppies do the same things. 

Most bitches eat the placentas, I usually only allow them to eat the first 3 - 4 esp on the smaller girls. They get valuable hormones, but can upset the tummy. I did often tear the umbilical (rather than cut it) because there is less bleeding that way. I tear towards the puppy so I don't put pressure on the belly button and leave about 1/2" - too much and the mother tends to chew on the cord, too little and they bleed. I'd just pinch the end of the umbilical to get it to quit bleeding. 

There are some random whelping thoughts..  Probably more later!


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## GraceAlice (Jun 7, 2013)

GrannyCarol, thank you SO much! That info is very appreciated!  Keep it coming if you'd like. 

Something happened tonight that scared the heck out of me. I've never seen dogs fight so hard. Annie drew blood on Silas. She was done eating, but the bowl was still "her's". He came up to her, and they just completely attacked each other, drawing blood and scaring me. We couldn't get in the middle of it because they were going to accidentally bite one of us. I've NEVER had dogs do that. I understood that she was hormonal, but I didn't see that coming. Is it reasonable to worry about her miscarrying?


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## GrannyCarol (Mar 23, 2005)

I wouldn't worry so much about her miscarrying, but I sure would give her space and privacy from your other dog. I'd guess her hormones are working all too well atm. Be very sure she's not going to be bothered after her pups are born until she chills out about them. She sounds like she's gone into mother overload like a primative dog.


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## GraceAlice (Jun 7, 2013)

Oh yes, they are separated and will remain separated until the pups are older! She's really not usually like that, they normally love each other. It really surprised me. I guess I should have seen that coming. Thanks! I have no worries about her not protecting the puppies now, lol. Thank goodness it wasn't as bad as it could have been.


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## Maura (Jun 6, 2004)

On another note. If you are present when the pups are born and you realize that you are seeing back legs, don't try to help. The puppy will be born, just take more time since the head is coming last.


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## GraceAlice (Jun 7, 2013)

Okay.  That makes me feel good, I have been worried about that for a few days. 

I forgot to mention that we dewormed her 2 days ago. She doesn't like the taste of it, but she had to be wormed! 

I FELT PUPPIES KICKING!! It's day 50 and they decided to start it with a nice surprise! I can feel one or two puppies in there when I feel around but there are probably some behind her rib cage too. I hope!


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## GraceAlice (Jun 7, 2013)

I gave her a "whelping haircut" today. We would call that a kidding cut in the goat section but obviously it's not the same thing, lol. I took the beard trimmers we have in here and shaved her... hehe. I just shaved around her nipples. She hasn't been shedding much and I can see any changes easier that way. Of course, when I was half way done, they turned off and ran out of batteries. So I will be doing the rest of it today. Should I shave the underside of her tail or is that just silly?


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## GraceAlice (Jun 7, 2013)

Shaved her today. ..


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## GraceAlice (Jun 7, 2013)

I might be a tad bit too excited... Currently sewing a heating pad like a 4 year old that will read "I love Annie". Just trying to pass the time!


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## GraceAlice (Jun 7, 2013)

Hehe. .


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## GraceAlice (Jun 7, 2013)

Colostrum can be expressed from her "teats" now. ..

And it's like they doubled in size over night. Goodness.


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## GrannyCarol (Mar 23, 2005)

You've got a few days yet, so don't try to hold your breath, you will explode!


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## GraceAlice (Jun 7, 2013)

I know! It is so hard 

We are on day 54. I will start taking her temp on day 58. I have a TON to do, her whelping box isn't even set up yet. I will try to get pictures today.


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## GraceAlice (Jun 7, 2013)

Hemostats, scissors, and Nasal aspirator are all sterile and ready to go. Going to pick up some Clotisol and betadine tomorrow. Lots and lots of towels and blankets to wash, whelping box needs to be made, stall needs to be cleaned, fencing needs to be fixed, etc. But I think for the most part, we are ready.  I'll never be fully prepared!

Guessing 3 or 4 puppies. I could only feel 3, and she's not getting any bigger around!


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## GraceAlice (Jun 7, 2013)

Today is day 54, by the way.


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## Squeaky McMurdo (Apr 19, 2012)

Big dogs can hide puppies in their rib cage, so she may surprise you. :thumb:

My Jack Russell Terrier is expecting her puppies on the 23rd...which also happens to be my oldest daughter's birthday. Can't wait to see what she comes up with because she's a Shorty Jack, but her boyfriend (also a JRT) has the longer legs.


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## GraceAlice (Jun 7, 2013)

Picked up 20 straw bales today. Have to get to cleaning!


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## GraceAlice (Jun 7, 2013)

Day 56 - losing her mucous plug.  I'm excited. Everyone is telling me it is a false pregnancy... but I still expect puppies!


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## Squeaky McMurdo (Apr 19, 2012)

Are they saying that because she doesn't have a big belly? This is my dog a few days before having 8 puppies. Lol


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## GraceAlice (Jun 7, 2013)

Yes, they are saying she doesn't look pregnant so she isn't! 

That gives me hope. LOL


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## angmont (Jun 1, 2012)

I guess 5 pups based on past experience of big dogs hiding pups.


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## GraceAlice (Jun 7, 2013)

Day 57-

I saw AND felt puppies. She must be pregnant. Lol

Today I went outside at 10:00 and came back in at 12:15. It took me that long to completely clean the stall, make her whelping box, put down bedding... and that's all! I took forever! But now she had a whelping box with blankets in there.  She immediately got in and tore up the blankets!


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## GraceAlice (Jun 7, 2013)

Okay... she's ripping up her bedding, acting ancy, and panting every once in awhile. It's not hot. hmmmm


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## Squeaky McMurdo (Apr 19, 2012)

The Debbie Jensen Whelping Guide http://www.debbiejensen.com

A great resource. The books are great, but she was kind enough to publish a ton of helpful information on her website for free.


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## GraceAlice (Jun 7, 2013)

I've looked at her website a million times.  But thank you!

I won't be posting as many pictures or posting so much on here as I have been. Why, you ask? BECAUSE ANNIE DESTROYED MY BRAND NEW PHONE WITH 2000 PICTURES ON IT. 

I went out there, took her temp, and while she was sleeping, I went to the house to clean off the thermometer because it wasn't working and I wanted to try again. So I clean it, it breaks, mercury (it's a vet thermometer) spills out, we clean that up, I get ready to go back out, I get out there, and she's got my phone in between her paws. She ripped the 40.00 OtterBox open and broke my brand new (galaxy S4) phone. DARN. IT. Unhappy right now. 

On the brighter side, I felt the puppies kick at least 50 times today. It was awesome. This is the first time I have been sure that what I felt was a puppy. I felt two puppies on each side... so I'm guessing she will have four. She has gotten a lot a lot a lot more pregnant looking since the last photoshoot. 

She has shredded some of her bedding and is acting much lazier. I'm guessing she'll whelp on day 59.


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## Brighton (Apr 14, 2013)

GraceAlice said:


> I went to the house to clean off the thermometer because it wasn't working and I wanted to try again. So I clean it, it breaks, mercury spills out, we clean that up,


Unless you are using your grand mammy's thermometer, they haven't put Mercury in them for years and years!!


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## GraceAlice (Jun 7, 2013)

lol! It's a vet thermometer!


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## GrannyCarol (Mar 23, 2005)

On the other hand, if you expect one day, it'll be two days later... if you give up and decide to sleep in, she'll start while you are sleeping. You can't win, but don't be surprised if she has more pups than you can feel!Good luck! 

Fortunately usually it goes better than all the horror stories, but you do need to be prepared because stuff does happen that you can help her with. I hope you have a backup thermometer!


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## GraceAlice (Jun 7, 2013)

Well, I didn't get that "feeling" last night so I went to bed and didn't check on her until 15 minutes ago. Annie was out with Silas again... she opened the gate! It's a good thing I took the bedding out or the goats would've eaten it!

She was very excited, and very jumpy. I still don't know how she can be so pregnant and have all that energy! It's insane!

We're going to stop at the farm store and see if they have any more thermometers today. I'm going crazy not being able to check her temperature!

But she's definitely not in labor... Maybe it will be a couple more days. I'm going to get a cheaper little phone for emergencies and buy myself a nice camera... I take pictures every day, it's driving me CRAZY not having a camera.


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## Squeaky McMurdo (Apr 19, 2012)

You could get a little handheld doppler if you do this again. That's how I was sure Cammy was pregnant. I'm a midwife so I already have one and went all birth junkie on her at 4 weeks and found some little heartbeats whooshing away.

I listen to my JRT's puppies too. Can't really tell how many there are, but the reassurance that they are in there alive and well is nice. I wish it worked on goats. Darn rumens anyway.


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## GraceAlice (Jun 7, 2013)

I'll be doing it again for sure, lol! Thanks. Okay... that is so cool that your a midwife... I've wanted to do that ever since I was like 9, lol.

I was so worried Annie wasn't pregnant. But I was in her pen for 5 hours yesterday feeling those puppies move. It's just so cool! I would always sit with the goats forever when they were pregnant so I could feel their babies move.  I can't wait until she has them.


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## GraceAlice (Jun 7, 2013)

Okay, she's acting really annoyed and nervous and wants me to pet her all the time... she can't stand still and won't follow the "rules" (when I come in she knows she should lie down so I can mess with her. She's too big for me to MAKE her though, lol). Hmmm

Getting a thermometer tonight so I can finally check her temp. We'll see what happens.


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## GraceAlice (Jun 7, 2013)

Temp is 99.6. She got in a fight today with Silas. Didn't expect that at all, thought they were through with fighting. My fault. Guessing that will send her into labor.


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## GraceAlice (Jun 7, 2013)

I'm prepared if she does go into labor!


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## GrannyCarol (Mar 23, 2005)

Well, you are looking at pre-labor. Also her temp is down nicely, should be soon. Let me know how it goes.


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## GraceAlice (Jun 7, 2013)

Temp is 99.0


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## GrannyCarol (Mar 23, 2005)

I guess its time to stay home with her until she whelps. It should be quite soon.


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## GraceAlice (Jun 7, 2013)

Darn it! I knew she would do that... I have to be gone all day tomorrow. Goodness sakes.

How much longer should it be? Is there a time range?


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## GrannyCarol (Mar 23, 2005)

Once she solidly hits 99 like that, I figure within 24 hours. If her temp goes back up and nothing happens for a couple of days, she needs to see a vet. 

In my experience that can mean a very serious problem - we had one ***** do that, run late and my friend waited on it. She lost the whole litter and almost her *****. They ended up doing a C-section and emergency spay to remove the dead pups and save her. By then the pups were 3 days overdue. Even so her vet didn't want to do it, thought the ***** was ok until they did the surgery. Fortunately this is one litter in decades of breeding for the two of us. (My friend is a very experienced breeder, more so than I am and we worked together for years, until I retired from breeding and showing dogs.)


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## GraceAlice (Jun 7, 2013)

Temp is now 100.2... :flame:

Pups aren't moving as much. She still has her appetite, lost a bit of her mucous plug...


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## Squeaky McMurdo (Apr 19, 2012)

It really only works if you take temp at the same time every day...usually after a period of rest. Could have just gone up because she has been active or eaten recently.


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## GrannyCarol (Mar 23, 2005)

She's not late yet, the temp can go up and down, that's not to worry about. She's just close.


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## GraceAlice (Jun 7, 2013)

Okay. Temp is 100.0. She is panting like crazy and has been all day. She didn't eat a thing. Hmmm. I suppose night time checks are in order.


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## GrannyCarol (Mar 23, 2005)

I wouldn't be surprised if she whelps tonight, tomorrow at the latest. Have fun!


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## GraceAlice (Jun 7, 2013)

I think tonight is the real deal! She still won't eat and won't even lift her head up when I call her on the other side of the barn... really really unusual for her. Super mopy. She is either lying down moping or sitting down panting at this point. She's being really weird. I have a feeling tonight is the night. Too bad, important things that have to be done tomorrow, looks like you'll have to wait!


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## GraceAlice (Jun 7, 2013)

Any last minute guesses? When will she have them, how many, and what genders?

I'm guessing early tomorrow morning, 4 puppies, 3 boys 1 girl.


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## Squeaky McMurdo (Apr 19, 2012)

Today, 6 puppies. 4 girls and 2 boys.


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## GraceAlice (Jun 7, 2013)

Okay.. well my guess was wrong! No puppies this morning.

We've got clear discharge, LOTS and lots of licking, nesting behavior, mopy behavior, teats are almost hard they are so full, and she is constantly up and down. Maybe she'll whelp on her due ate! Yeah right.


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## GrannyCarol (Mar 23, 2005)

Squeaky McMurdo said:


> Today, 6 puppies. 4 girls and 2 boys.



Congrats!


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## GrannyCarol (Mar 23, 2005)

For some strange reason the due date IS the most likely date.... no matter how it seems!


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## GraceAlice (Jun 7, 2013)

GrannyCarol said:


> Congrats!


Lol, she was just guessing how many Annie would have.


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## GraceAlice (Jun 7, 2013)

Well, this dog has turned into a zombie. She doesn't want to move any more than absolutely required, lol. She just mopes around, lying down. Boring!

She does have clear discharge... but if it's the same as goats, she could have two more weeks. LOL


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## GrannyCarol (Mar 23, 2005)

Just give her luvvies, poor thing. She's preggers and probably thoroughly uncomfortable. 

Reminds me of when I was pregnant and I kept thinking, "I'm going to have my baby soon!" and my mother would tell me that I wasn't nearly uncomfortable enough to be at term. Thanks mom!  She was right. Perhaps your dog is becoming uncomfortable enough to be at term.


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## GraceAlice (Jun 7, 2013)

Cooked some eggs and beef heart for her... FINALLY got her to eat after a bit of her picking around and trying to bury it... she caught on. Still doesn't want her normal food.


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## GraceAlice (Jun 7, 2013)

*SIGH* Nothing yet. Still waiting. I'm just sitting here listening to her bark because she wants out. I though for sure we would've had puppies last night... or at least today! Nope, she has other plans.


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## GrannyCarol (Mar 23, 2005)

Thanks for the update. Gosh it's hard to wait!

Then there's the bitches (house dogs, of course) that think they have to take a poop when they start to strain and insist on going outside, where upon I get to catch a puppy in the dark, always in the dark! I learned the hard way to bring a hand towel with me. It sure does bring back memories.


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## motdaugrnds (Jul 3, 2002)

I sure am enjoying this journal.... 

Guessing 3 girls and 2 boys


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## GraceAlice (Jun 7, 2013)

No puppies! Day 61. She had lots of discharge last night, figured I would wake up to puppies. Nope!

Maybe today? I don't know, but I'm leaving the house for a few hours just to speed things up.  lol


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## GrannyCarol (Mar 23, 2005)

What sort of discharge is it? Clear? Greenish? Red? Thin, thick? Does it smell?


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## GraceAlice (Jun 7, 2013)

Clear. Nope, no smell. 

She is spending almost all of her time lying down in the whelping box.  Good sign?


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## GrannyCarol (Mar 23, 2005)

Yes, along with a clear, unsmelly dishcharge. 

When was her last breeding?


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## GraceAlice (Jun 7, 2013)

2/11/2014

Hmm... is this also pre-labor? lol


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## GrannyCarol (Mar 23, 2005)

Yeah, pretty much as far as I can tell. Do keep in mind that, in the end, I can only share my experience as best I can given the information I have... any real decisions are made by the owner on the spot. It's often a good idea to call your vet when your ***** is due to let them know she's pregnant, ask questions about what's going on and let them know they may see you sometime in the next few days. I think my vet appreciated knowing we might be facing a c-section if something went wrong, so he was prepared. Over the years I got quite pro-active regarding c-sections, as they seemed to be easier on the ***** than a hard whelping with much better results in terms of healthy mother and healthy puppies (when things go bad, which so far doesn't seem to be the case with your girl). You might want to double check regarding the temperature drop, going back up and see if your vet thinks all of it is normal. My vet was very much a part of my whelping planning and I often took the mother and puppies up the day after whelping for an oxytocin shot to be sure she was cleaned out and antibiotic if the whelping was rough. 

So, I am happy to offer advice and experience, but I'm not there to see her and I'm not a vet in any way, its not medical advice, if you know what I mean, just support!


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## GraceAlice (Jun 7, 2013)

Finally got a new camera today, so here are new pictures.

She has spent her day lying down in the whelping box. Didn't touch her food. Also panting, and has been all day. Will be doing night checks.


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## GrannyCarol (Mar 23, 2005)

She looks miserable enough to have puppies to me. I'm sure you are entirely tired of waiting for her!


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## GraceAlice (Jun 7, 2013)

Okay, I think we are in Stage 1 labor... she is nesting, crying and whining like crazy, spending all her time in the whelping box, licking her back end, she's got her milk in, and she's panting really hard. Poor baby!


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## GraceAlice (Jun 7, 2013)

Poor thing


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## hercsmama (Jan 15, 2004)

I don't know if it is the way she is laying or what, but yea, I'd certainly say her milk has come in, holy moly. Poor girl, she looks just miserable, any time now for sure!:sing:


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## GraceAlice (Jun 7, 2013)

Lol, I know! Might have to go pick up a bra for her, LOL.

I'm getting excited!


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## GraceAlice (Jun 7, 2013)

She's pushing


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## GrannyCarol (Mar 23, 2005)

Oh, I'm back from shopping just in time...


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## Squeaky McMurdo (Apr 19, 2012)

Woohoo! I still think there's 6


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## hercsmama (Jan 15, 2004)

Update??????


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## GraceAlice (Jun 7, 2013)

Three so far! 2 boys and 1 girl. Pictures and the long story soon. Last pup was born 7 minutes ago, th here could be more. Long night!


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## GrannyCarol (Mar 23, 2005)

Figured you were busy, have fun and good luck!


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## GraceAlice (Jun 7, 2013)

How do you know when she is done? Now she is just bleeding


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## GrannyCarol (Mar 23, 2005)

A bloody discharge is normal, but it shouldn't be heavy after the first bit. Nursing puppies should cause contractions that close down bleeding and clean the uterus.

Is she quiet and calm? It is not impossible for her to be taking a break before she has a couple more pups. If she is still fussy, its likely she's not done, if she really settles down with the pups, she may be. 

Can you feel any puppies? This is very difficult as the uterus will contract and be very hard, often making it hard to tell what's going on. 

Mostly you just keep an eye on her, or, if she's really settled down nursing her pups, check back for the next few hours - its one reason I plan to sleep next to my new pups for the first couple of days. If anything happens, the activity will wake me to take care of it. Sleeping is for sissies! 

Give her a light snack, now is a good time for a little ice cream. Let her rest for an hour or so, then take her for a walk. If she's not done that often gets the ***** going again. Gently, but with a little pressure, massage her behind the ribcage, where you felt the pups before. This can stimulate contractions to either bring down milk (I doubt you need that!) or move anything left in her. 

If you are sure you felt and counted at least 4, then its fairly likely she's not done. Usually though the ***** just stops labor and settles down... then you go back in the morning and see one or two more pups! lol Been there, done that! If she is not exhausted by a long labor and things went well, she's likely to be fine even if she has another or two. They can take a 2 - 4 hour break and go back into labor and everything is fine. Just not a long break after a water bag, that is the sign of a stuck puppy. 

Looking forward to the story and the pictures, glad she's has puppies!


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## GraceAlice (Jun 7, 2013)

Okay, I'm exhausted!

Only three! I was sure she would have more than that!

First puppy was coming out back legs first. Half of him was out when she bit of the sack. Went with my gut and pulled as she pushed to make sure he didn't inhale any fluid. He slid out very easily.  She ripped the rest of the sack off and chewed off his cord. I suctioned out his nose and mouth and within 30 minutes I finally got him nursing. She kept nosing him and licking him, knocking him away from the teat! That wet puppy fluid is like alcohol... They get addicted! But finally I got her to quit after holding her giant head back with all my might and a bit of growling. His nickname is Little Si.

Within 15 minutes, the next boy was on his way out. Only the head was out for about 3 pushes, and then finally his paws (that were really far back) came out and within two pushes he was out. This little guy was wriggling his way out and about five seconds after he was detached from her, he was nursing. Figured out was a dramatic little girl, but nope! Nickname is Doug.

30 minutes after that, she got up to pee. Sure enough, she squatted, and out came a pretty little girl! She didn't need any help besides bringing her to the whelping box, lol. Annie had her next to si... And you could've cut the tension with a knife! Thankfully I led Annie back to the whelping box and everything was fine. Nickname is Vira.

She bled quite a bit after that one, but shortly after it started, it stopped. So no big deal.

At 4:00, she delivered a mass that sort of looked like a placenta? But she already passed three placentas, so I don't know exactly what it was. I was too tired to pay a lot of attention!

She is happily nursing and taking care of them at the moment. Every are very fat, content, absolutely adorable babies.


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## GrannyCarol (Mar 23, 2005)

That end is what you want to see. Watch them closely for the next few days for any problems - her becoming uncomfortable or restless, be sure she is eating well, watch for puppies that cry, or worse yet, scream like seagulls, or that aren't fat, pink and content. Keep an eye on her for mastitis (hot, red, sore teat) and for any excessive discharge, particularly if it is thick, tomato soupy and/or smelly. As long as she seems normal and happy and the babies do too, you are good! Usually secondary infections show up about 3 days in, so the first 4 days are the most critical.


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## GraceAlice (Jun 7, 2013)

Here's a picture of the biggest puppy. (doug) he looks pure anatolian.


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## GrannyCarol (Mar 23, 2005)

He's huge! What does he weigh? I've never had pups with such a large breed before.


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## Maura (Jun 6, 2004)

All of that licking helps the puppy&#8217;s system to &#8216;wake up&#8217;. If she didn&#8217;t do it you&#8217;d need to rub the puppy with cloth.


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## GraceAlice (Jun 7, 2013)

I'm not sure what he weighs, I didn't get anything accomplished today besides a shower! I'm living off of four hours of sleep and weighing them slipped my mind. Another thing to add to tomorrows list!

Here are some cruddy pictures. It's pitch black out there and all I had was a flash light and a phone that can't flash!


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## GrannyCarol (Mar 23, 2005)

Well, they look very happy, big, stout puppies. They have that lovely pink nose and pads that say their temperature is right and the fill they should get eating well. Looking good!


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## hercsmama (Jan 15, 2004)

Oh my word, they're massive for new borns! Thank goodness she only had the three.
They look wonderful, sounds like she did everything right,
Congratulations!


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## motdaugrnds (Jul 3, 2002)

What an exciting thread this has been. Thank you so much for sharing as you have. 

Congratulations on those pups. They do look quite healthy!


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## GraceAlice (Jun 7, 2013)

They are really big, but keep in mind both parents are around 120 pounds! Compared to Annie, they are small puppies, lol.

Thank you everyone! It's not over yet motdaugrnds, I will still post regular updates!


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## hercsmama (Jan 15, 2004)

Trust me, those are huge pups, even for your dogs size!
Both of my Pyrs are litter mates, and their parents were 120, and 160 pounders. 
Maggie and Murphy are just 2 now, and they weigh 125, and 180. They were about the size of your pups at 3 weeks old!
Your Momma dog did good, very good!:happy2:


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## GraceAlice (Jun 7, 2013)

Okay, I guess I should say I'm not sure how much Annie and Silas weigh! I'm just guessing!


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## GraceAlice (Jun 7, 2013)

Dang... The little girl is already sold!


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## GrannyCarol (Mar 23, 2005)

Those puppies really are ginormous... that is what happens with a small litter in a huge dog. Fortunately your mother was able to whelp them safely. If she'd had 10 puppies, they would have been a more normal size I'm sure.


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## KrisD (May 26, 2011)

We are so excited for our little girl puppy! Our goats, chickens, and geese will appreciate her when she grows up. 
We are already scheduling her first puppy class in August. July seems so far away especially to my little boy who is dieing for his puppy.


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## Squeaky McMurdo (Apr 19, 2012)

Look at that chubby belly on Doug! So cute. Do you think they'll be fluffy like dad or more like Anatolians?


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## GraceAlice (Jun 7, 2013)

-I'm really really trying to get new pictures up, my wifi is not working and I have to use my phone for everything, but the pictures are on my camera and not on my phone,,, blah blah blah.... I should have them up soon, gosh dang it!-

Hmmm... I'm really not sure. I'm guessing they will have short fur since they have so much anatolian in them... But I could easily be wrong!

Kris, I know, we were sorting out the dates and realized how far away it was, I was a little shocked!


It will give us time to move to oregon and get them settled though.


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## KrisD (May 26, 2011)

You are moving to Oregon? Cool! Where in Oregon? 

The Pups will be 12 weeks in July, do you want to hold on to them that long? Most dams will wean their pups by 8-9 weeks. 

There are long coated Anatolians. Which are actually my favorite! Snuggling those big furry dogs is just awesome.


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## GraceAlice (Jun 7, 2013)

Elmira, Oregon  It's in between Eugene and Cottage Grove.

We are holding them for 12 weeks because LGDs are usually better at doing their job if they stay longer and learn stuff from their parents. If you want her earlier, that's fine too! I would just rather get a puppy that has more experience, myself. 

There are, but I don't think Annie has any long coated genetics. Hopefully Vira (that's her nickname until you guys name her) gets her daddy's long coat! Both of her parents are so sweet, you're gonna love her!

FINALLY got new pictures uploaded!!


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## nightfire (Feb 3, 2012)

Squeaky McMurdo said:


> Are they saying that because she doesn't have a big belly? This is my dog a few days before having 8 puppies. Lol



What breed of dog is she? She looks so much like my brothers shelter dog, and we only can guess what she is.


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## GraceAlice (Jun 7, 2013)

Everyone is doing fine! They are SO fat. I've never seen 9 day old puppies SO fat and big. I checked all her teats just to make sure everything was working fine, and I can milk her like a cow... LOL

They are getting noisier everyday. Doug has been renamed "Tank" because he is so ginormous. I should get new pictures! 

Annie is driving herself crazy. She barks and barks to get out of her stall, so I let her out... and then she runs back to her puppies seconds after being let out! She's insane! And I thought having a litter of puppies would calm her down. ...Ha.


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## GraceAlice (Jun 7, 2013)

Does anyone else think this should be a sticky? I originally made it as a "guide" for other first time dog breeders... but not sure if it's sticky-worthy, lol.


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## Squeaky McMurdo (Apr 19, 2012)

nightfire said:


> What breed of dog is she? She looks so much like my brothers shelter dog, and we only can guess what she is.


Black lab. 9 years old May 16 so has some white frosting on her face now.



GraceAlice said:


> Does anyone else think this should be a sticky? I originally made it as a "guide" for other first time dog breeders... but not sure if it's sticky-worthy, lol.


Maybe the link to this thread could be included on the "Notable Threads" sticky.


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## motdaugrnds (Jul 3, 2002)

Such a nice journal of this birthing. I would like to see it placed somewhere it can be easily found.....moderator??


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## GraceAlice (Jun 7, 2013)

I think they have doubled in size!


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## Squeaky McMurdo (Apr 19, 2012)

Good Lord! Zip's puppies fit in my palm


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## KrisD (May 26, 2011)

Good gravy they are huge!


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## GraceAlice (Jun 7, 2013)

Kris, if you look at my Facebook page or on Grace's, there are more photos. You should see these monsters now!


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## earthkitty (Mar 3, 2011)

Dang it, that was me posting, not Grace! Tried to edit but it didn't work from my phone.


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## Squeaky McMurdo (Apr 19, 2012)

Wanna trade one of my Jack Russell puppies for one of your puppies? :teehee:

Only half joking since that would be awesome, but my husband would probably want to strangle me.


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## Maura (Jun 6, 2004)

Good for you keeping them a full twelve weeks!


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## GraceAlice (Jun 7, 2013)

Okay, for those of you who don't want to go on Facebook, here are a few!


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## hercsmama (Jan 15, 2004)

So sweet!!!


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## Squeaky McMurdo (Apr 19, 2012)

You can go ahead and just send me Si. Ugly Dachshund sort of thing. Then maybe my husband won't notice. eep:


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## GraceAlice (Jun 7, 2013)

Heck, if you want Silas, you are free to come over and get him when he's ready.  But no way, I don't want a Jack Russel!!! I have two already, ugh those dogs. But yours are probably more well-behaved.  Plus I have 8 dogs. lol


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## GraceAlice (Jun 7, 2013)

They are SO BIG now!!! They are now running around, Annie is playing pretty rough with them, they are barking, growling, eating solid food, playing with each other, and are SO CUTE!


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## GraceAlice (Jun 7, 2013)

Oh, and did I mention that they are super sweet? They are super playful, but will sleep in your arms forever without a problem!


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## CAjerseychick (Aug 11, 2013)

Gracealice are you still in Kansas? Winterrwolf over in MO is looking and wants your specific cross...?


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## GraceAlice (Jun 7, 2013)

Yes, but they won't be ready until we are already moved to OR. They are almost pure Anatolian, but they are like 12.5 Pyrenees. The boy that's for sale looks like an anatolian.


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