# solution to racism



## kasilofhome (Feb 10, 2005)

Since our society has governmental and political controlled pushed for allowing persons to choose their sex.....dispite DNA why not let everyone pick a race to belong to ...
.DNA should not matter on race......unless you are small minded hater. Look now we can for once create our own race. Logic is now flexible. So as not to offend anyone.


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## Seth (Dec 3, 2012)

I'll be white. Otherwise my shoes would clash. Seth


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## Paumon (Jul 12, 2007)

I think everyone already does choose their race before they are born.


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## kasilofhome (Feb 10, 2005)

If gender is now selected after birth ......and there is no limit as to the number of times a person may claim to switch gender......I believe that the race a person is should be the free choice of the individual and that each person should be free to alter their race or gender by simply claiming and pronouncing what the currently relate to best for them. Question why should a person be force be live a race or gender braces solely on the DNA that they were born with...it is cruel to demand that a person be force to live being trapped in a race that they are not pleased or comfortable with.

Those who disagree are simply haters guilty of hateful beliefs. Children should correct adults to a more tolerant way of living.


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## kasilofhome (Feb 10, 2005)

Oh I am paisley......quite the minority...none have ever held office or been a CEO of any business as such I demand relief from such hardships.


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## Old Vet (Oct 15, 2006)

You need to get out of the sun for awhile and cool down before you get a sunstroke.


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## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

Choosing your own race will not stop racism. Racism is other people having a problem with what you are no matter what it is. Threads like this prove that.


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## DEKE01 (Jul 17, 2013)

I've heard it said that the way to end racism is to have everyone be a chocolate milk mix. This is why that won't cure racism or colorism or whatever you want to call it. 

I wish I could find the whole skit. For those of you too young to remember, the dark guy is Garret Morris, a very funny SNL regular in the 70s and the lighter guy is Julian Bond, then a Georgia state senator (I think), guest host of SNL that week, and he would go on to be one of the leaders in the NAACP.

[ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N8QEIaATPis"]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N8QEIaATPis[/ame]


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## Paumon (Jul 12, 2007)

painterswife said:


> Choosing your own race will not stop racism. *Racism is other people having a problem with what you are* no matter what it is. Threads like this prove that.


I have a brilliant idea. 

Instead of changing our own race to something different, we should change the race of the racists to something different. Then they can have problems with themselves.

Ha! That will fix their little red wagons! 

Oh, wait. Was that racist to call their wagons red? :teehee:


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## JillyG (Jan 6, 2014)

The simple fact that you see someone of a slightly different shade or from a different region of the planet as another race is racism.


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## mmoetc (Oct 9, 2012)

JillyG said:


> The simple fact that you see someone of a slightly different shade or from a different region of the planet as another race is racism.


Recognizing that someone is a different race is reality. Treating them differently solely on that basis is racism.


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## willow_girl (Dec 7, 2002)

It's already happening. Plenty of white people like to pretend they're Native American. Years ago when I had friends who actually were Native American, they referred to these hangers-on as members of the Wannabe tribe. :hysterical:


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## poppy (Feb 21, 2008)

Hmmm............it seems the far left has now defined racism as something that means what they think it means at any given time. Apparently it is a fluid concept they can use to label people they disagree with, sort of like cooties. They get to choose when and who to call racist and if you deny being racist, they say that just proves you are.


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## mmoetc (Oct 9, 2012)

poppy said:


> Hmmm............it seems the far left has now defined racism as something that means what they think it means at any given time. Apparently it is a fluid concept they can use to label people they disagree with, sort of like cooties. They get to choose when and who to call racist and if you deny being racist, they say that just proves you are.


And how would you, as a representative of the far right, define it?


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## poppy (Feb 21, 2008)

mmoetc said:


> And how would you, as a representative of the far right, define it?


Simple really. Hatred of another race. I'm not talking about not wanting to be around those of another race for whatever reason or telling jokes about another race. I'm talking about pure hatred.


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## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

poppy said:


> Simple really. Hatred of another race. I'm not talking about not wanting to be around those of another race for whatever reason or telling jokes about another race. I'm talking about pure hatred.


You don't have to hate to be a racist.


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## MDKatie (Dec 13, 2010)

I'm not sure why it bothers some people that people can "choose" their gender. :shrug: So what?


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## mmoetc (Oct 9, 2012)

poppy said:


> Simple really. Hatred of another race. I'm not talking about not wanting to be around those of another race for whatever reason or telling jokes about another race. I'm talking about pure hatred.


I find it interesting that your definition centers solely around an emotion. I've met more than a few folks who will tell you quite openly that they don't don't hate blacks and will then proceed to tell you of the list of things blacks shouldn't be allowed to participate in. What of the business owner who throws every application submitted by a person of color into the shredder before reading it? His action certainly seems racist to me but I can't judge his heart. What of the landlord who refuses to rent to the college graduate with a good, stable job because they happen to be of the wrong color but will rent to the high school dropout with a spotty job history of his own race? Once again I can't judge his heart but I can judge his actions. You're entitled to your defintion. It just isn't mine.


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## JJ Grandits (Nov 10, 2002)

painterswife said:


> You don't have to hate to be a racist.


Actually, yes you do. A racisits hatred may be unfounded, it may be motivated by fear, it may reflect their own insecurity, but no matter what the cause it is motivated by hate. Next revelation, we are all racists. We may deny it, we may hide it, but in one way or another we are. It may be a very small part of our being but it's still there. Denying it is lying to yourself. The best way to solve the problem is realizing it exists. It is an infantile weakness. We are all created in the image of God. Who are we to find a differance?


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## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

JJ Grandits said:


> Actually, yes you do. A racisits hatred may be unfounded, it may be motivated by fear, it may reflect their own insecurity, but no matter what the cause it is motivated by hate. Next revelation, we are all racists. We may deny it, we may hide it, but in one way or another we are. It may be a very small part of our being but it's still there. Denying it is lying to yourself. The best way to solve the problem is realizing it exists. It is an infantile weakness. We are all created in the image of God. Who are we to find a differance?


Actually you don't. You don't have to hate you only have to think that they are different because of the color of their skin. We all know that the color of your skin does not make you as an individual better or less than someone else of a different skin color. Racists believe it does. They don't have to hate to believe that.


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## unregistered358967 (Jul 17, 2013)

DEKE01 said:


> I've heard it said that the way to end racism is to have everyone be a chocolate milk mix. This is why that won't cure racism or colorism or whatever you want to call it.


Well..as the world becomes smaller..everyone will just blend up into some sort of beautiful tan color anyway. I personally wouldn't mind having darker skin because I'm tired of sunburns.


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## unregistered358967 (Jul 17, 2013)

JJ Grandits said:


> Next revelation, we are all racists. We may deny it, we may hide it, but in one way or another we are. It may be a very small part of our being but it's still there. Denying it is lying to yourself. The best way to solve the problem is realizing it exists. It is an infantile weakness. We are all created in the image of God. Who are we to find a differance?


I just can't believe this. I've seen kids of different races playing together..no biggie. I've seen adults with friends of different races..no biggie. I think fear or curiosity is normal in people but not racism, which I believe is a learned trait shaped by experience and close-mindedness. But is everyone racist. No.


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## mmoetc (Oct 9, 2012)

JJ Grandits said:


> Actually, yes you do. A racisits hatred may be unfounded, it may be motivated by fear, it may reflect their own insecurity, but no matter what the cause it is motivated by hate. Next revelation, we are all racists. We may deny it, we may hide it, but in one way or another we are. It may be a very small part of our being but it's still there. Denying it is lying to yourself. The best way to solve the problem is realizing it exists. It is an infantile weakness. We are all created in the image of God. Who are we to find a differance?


I've had after work drinks at 2am alongside a friend in a bar I likely wouldn't walk into without fear by myself at 2 in the afternoon. Just because I might fear going in alone doesn't mean I hate the people behind the door. We are tribal beasts by nature and are justifiably wary of those outside our tribes. It doesn't neccessarily mean that we automatically hate those not of our tribe or even that we are incapable of overcoming that hatred or even simply not acting on it where it does exist.


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## JJ Grandits (Nov 10, 2002)

Sorry, I'll stand by my statement. Be it black and white, or red and black, or any other combination you can think of and some you might not. How about biases against nationalities, or religions, or political parties? What about the differances between favored sports teams, or breeds of dogs, or brands of beers or types of trucks? Are all our houses painted the same color? We find differences in everything. It is our nature. Denial does not solve the problem.


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## mmoetc (Oct 9, 2012)

JJ Grandits said:


> Sorry, I'll stand by my statement. Be it black and white, or red and black, or any other combination you can think of and some you might not. How about biases against nationalities, or religions, or political parties? What about the differances between favored sports teams, or breeds of dogs, or brands of beers or types of trucks? Are all our houses painted the same color? We find differences in everything. It is our nature. Denial does not solve the problem.


Finding differences and even acknowledging them doesn't have to equate to hatred. I find many hard right policies abhorrent but it doesn't mean I hate those who advocate for them. In fact I have many friends and neighbors who I value highly who regularly espouse them. Leads to some spirited discussions. No hatred that I can see. Denying that we can't overcome and see beyond these differences because hatred is somehow bred into us does nothing to solve the problem, either.


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## unregistered358967 (Jul 17, 2013)

Personally, I subscribe to the tabula rasa school of thought.


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## grandma12703 (Jan 13, 2011)

Well I think I will just stay out of this discussion.


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## kasilofhome (Feb 10, 2005)

MDKatie said:


> I'm not sure why it bothers some people that people can "choose" their gender. :shrug: So what?




Point out where there was any issue by me on.this thread ....I simply applied the same logic and rational to the subject of race.

DO YOU HAVE A PROBLEM WITH ME PICKING MY RACE.....I have to be me. I am not doing it for attention or personal gain. I just will not stand for racism and biased people against paisley persons.



Think about it wonder why any government labels you and thus creates a bias.


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## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

kasilofhome said:


> Point out where there was any issue by me on.this thread ....I simply applied the same logic and rational to the subject of race.
> 
> DO YOU HAVE A PROBLEM WITH ME PICKING MY RACE.....I have to be me. I am not doing it for attention or personal gain. I just will not stand for racism and biased people against paisley persons.
> 
> ...


Governments label you, because people label you. You labeling yourself something different won't really make a difference. Maybe if everyone refused to label themselves we might start making a dent.


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## kasilofhome (Feb 10, 2005)

As of last year....common core s selecting race is mandatory for school. Did you sign up for care.....mandatory one could not move forward leaving that unanswered.


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## JJ Grandits (Nov 10, 2002)

I think the problem here is how do you define racist? Lets face it, it is a a term that denotes hatred whenever it is used. This concept of noticing a differance is not racism. I am white, he is black. this does not make me a racist. I have brown eyes you have blue, I am tall you are short or any other differences you can find does not involve racism or the activity of a racist. If you are Black and I am that fat white cracker we have a racist situation. If you are Black and Im the white guy who lives down the road we do not. If someone disagrees with Obama the left automatically labels them as racist. It is not because they disagree with Obama's actions, or principals, or agenda, it is because he is Black. The left use racism as hate speech against anyone they can twist the label to fit in their warped view. The only time you deny that being a racist is a form of hate is when you are a racist.


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## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

JJ Grandits said:


> I think the problem here is how do you define racist? Lets face it, it is a a term that denotes hatred whenever it is used. This concept of noticing a differance is not racism. I am white, he is black. this does not make me a racist. I have brown eyes you have blue, I am tall you are short or any other differences you can find does not involve racism or the activity of a racist. If you are Black and I am that fat white cracker we have a racist situation. If you are Black and Im the white guy who lives down the road we do not. If someone disagrees with Obama the left automatically labels them as racist. It is not because they disagree with Obama's actions, or principals, or agenda, it is because he is Black. The left use racism as hate speech against anyone they can twist the label to fit in their warped view.* The only time you deny that being a racist is a form of hate is when you are a racist.*


Did someone here say that or is that just your interpretation? I don't hold that opinion.


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## kasilofhome (Feb 10, 2005)

JJ I think you have a valid point. Racism is used to control. Both the "victims" and "abusers" wish for More control. Plus an excuse card from personal responceabilty.

And that plays both ways.


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## JJ Grandits (Nov 10, 2002)

You can not change your sex. You can have things cut off or added and alter your appearance but your cells have either xx or xy chromosomes and only that determines your sex. You can not change your race, nor should you have too. You can call yourself whatever you want but you are what you are. Judgements formed on a person because of their race is racism. Either way these judgements are based on emotions and a negative feelling against one race or another is a form of hatered. A racist will not admit he is a racist. he will have many reasons why he is not and many reasons why his views are valid. But as I said, one way or the other, we are all racists. Its OK to admit you sin. That's how you get better.


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## unregistered358967 (Jul 17, 2013)

My dog hated black people for some reason. He never told us why.


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## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

JJ Grandits said:


> You can not change your sex. You can have things cut off or added and alter your appearance but your cells have either xx or xy chromosomes and only that determines your sex. You can not change your race, nor should you have too. You can call yourself whatever you want but you are what you are. Judgements formed on a person because of their race is racism. Either way these judgements are based on emotions and a negative feelling against one race or another is a form of hatered. A racist will not admit he is a racist. he will have many reasons why he is not and many reasons why his views are valid. But as I said, one way or the other, we are all racists. Its OK to admit you sin. That's how you get better.


I know racists that admit they are racist. I admit I am. I go out of my way to treat people of certain races better in my personal interactions because I know from personal family experience how badly they are treated by others just because of their skin color.

In one sentence you state that no racist will admit they are racists and in the next you admit you are a racist. Which statement do you stand by because I am lost.


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## Paumon (Jul 12, 2007)

Jax-mom said:


> My dog hated black people for some reason. He never told us why.


Strange, eh? I had an elkhound like that, she hated traditional East Indians for some reason. She never told us why either but I always figured it was an objection to the loose flowing silk saris and pantaloons and tunics that they wear. I knew it wasn't because of the traditional foods they eat because she loved South Asian foods.


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## crazyfarm (Oct 29, 2013)

I hate threads like this. Most often the people commenting have never experienced racism. Easy to laugh about something you don't have to live.


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## Paumon (Jul 12, 2007)

crazyfarm said:


> I hate threads like this. *Most often the people commenting have never experienced racism.* Easy to laugh about something you don't have to live.


I can't totally agree with that. Very often people who might not have personally experienced racism against themselves have still experienced it by observation and empathy with their friends, colleagues or relatives of other races who do have personal experience with racism.

For example, parents of one race who adopt children of a different race. They may experience the effects of racism through their childrens' experiences with it. Or racially mixed couples who marry and have children. I have relatives who are a racially mixed couple and where they're located there is so much racial division their situation is such that the only people who will socialize with them are other racially mixed couples like themselves.

I think just about everybody of every race has had some kind of experience with racism. Even those who are themselves racists, once they get a reputation for it, will be the target of racism from those that they are racist against.


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## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

Yes, anyone can be racist. 

I am white, my brothers and sisters, mother and a great portion of my family is Japanese. My niece is half Japanese half Chinese. My cousins are half Japanese half white. My high school graduation dance my date was East Indian. My cousins have married native American and their off spring are mixed. Of course I see the races. I embrace all the cultural celebrations. I have been treated different as white blond haired member of this family as the older generations abandoned their racism towards whites and embraced us. I saw how my Japanese grandmother spoke about Chinese people until one joined her family and presented her with a grandchild.

There was lots of racism, not very much hate.


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## Cornhusker (Mar 20, 2003)

Never mind
Racism exists, but the majority is excused


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## Cornhusker (Mar 20, 2003)

painterswife said:


> Yes, anyone can be racist.
> 
> I am white, my brothers and sisters, mother and a great portion of my family is Japanese. My niece is half Japanese half Chinese. My cousins are half Japanese half white. My high school graduation dance my date was East Indian. My cousins have married native American and their off spring are mixed. Of course I see the races. I embrace all the cultural celebrations. I have been treated different as white blond haired member of this family as the older generations abandoned their racism towards whites and embraced us. I saw how my Japanese grandmother spoke about Chinese people until one joined her family and presented her with a grandchild.
> 
> There was lots of racism, not very much hate.


I've got friends and relatives who are black, hispanic, this or that, yet I get called racist when I point out what a nitwit Obama is.


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## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

Cornhusker said:


> I've got friends and relatives who are black, hispanic, this or that, yet I get called racist when I point out what a nitwit Obama is.


Maybe it is because of how you do it. I would have to see examples. PS just because you have friends of other colors does not make you not a racist.


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## where I want to (Oct 28, 2008)

mmoetc said:


> Denying that we can't overcome and see beyond these differences because hatred is somehow bred into us does nothing to solve the problem, either.


Neither does denying the existence of an innate attribute. If I am insecure about a situation involving a group of people, then I am going to try to align myself with those who resemble me most closely as they are least likely to find something objectionable in me to pick on. 

Actually most everyone is the same- they say don't "hate" the ones they despise, but the ones they despise are obviously full of "hate" otherwise they would certainly agree. As my mom used to quote "All the world's crazy except thee and me and I have my doubts about thee."

Most people find themselves very reasonable and therefore anyone who disagrees is unreasonable. Not calling it hate doesn't mean it's not.


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## Oggie (May 29, 2003)

If I make an assumption about someone, based on their race, that's racial prejudice.

If I act on that assumption, especially in a negative manner, that's racism.

As always, the solution to the problem is within me; not within those about whom I am making the assumptions.


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## where I want to (Oct 28, 2008)

Oggie said:


> If I make an assumption about someone, based on their race, that's racial prejudice.
> 
> If I act on that assumption, especially in a negative manner, that's racism.
> 
> As always, the solution to the problem is within me; not within those about whom I am making the assumptions.


So, since everyone has a race, then you never make any assumptions about anyone on anything?


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## Oggie (May 29, 2003)

where I want to said:


> So, since everyone has a race, then you never make any assumptions about anyone on anything?



I try not to make assumptions based on race, because more often than not, I'm wrong.

Just because someone is white, black, brown, yellow, red or whatever doesn't usually mean that they share character traits with others who are the same color.


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## light rain (Jan 14, 2013)

I'd be interested in hearing everyone's definition of "racist". I think we all may have different takes on this word. 

I believe all folks make choices in life, from personal experiences and also from family/friends influences. My cultural background being Irish, Swedish, Welch, English, and Native American came with its own perceptions of race. My Irish grandmother had to be convinced that the roof would not fall in if my mother brought an Englishman home for supper. My grandmother was coming from the experiences she had in Ireland. To say her feelings were not justified would be denying the truth. 

I think all of us interact with people based on what we know/perceive as truth. I think that peoples of ALL races operate on this premise. Whether you are Korean, Irish, Swedish, or any other nationality we all come to life with opinions. I personally believe people of Jewish heritage are more intelligent or have the potential for higher level thinking. Why, I'm not sure but my guess is an approach/drive for learning and self discipline through the generations. Respect for history and family and maybe even dietary customs may play a factor.

I believe I should treat other people as I want to be treated. 

I also believe that the customs/actions of other races/nationalities are in some cases in direct opposition to what I believe is right/moral. And I believe I have the right to express this opinion as do they. After that, I guess what guides us is the laws we enact in the democratic process of voting.


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## JJ Grandits (Nov 10, 2002)

Bottom line, people are people. I've known people from just about every race, religion ethnicity, rich and poor. Some are the salt of the earth and others I would not waste a bullet on. Anyone who says they do not have a bias, a predudice, or a stereotypical thought is lying to themselves. I've seen it in far to many threads over the years.


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## poppy (Feb 21, 2008)

Jax-mom said:


> My dog hated black people for some reason. He never told us why.


Hope you had him neutered. We have too many racist dogs in this country already. I had a dog that was anti-government. She only hated the mailman.


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## poppy (Feb 21, 2008)

painterswife said:


> Maybe it is because of how you do it. I would have to see examples. PS just because you have friends of other colors does not make you not a racist.


See Corny. You are a suspected racist no matter what just because you exist as a white guy.


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## poppy (Feb 21, 2008)

painterswife said:


> Yes, anyone can be racist.
> 
> I am white, my brothers and sisters, mother and a great portion of my family is Japanese. My niece is half Japanese half Chinese. My cousins are half Japanese half white. My high school graduation dance my date was East Indian. My cousins have married native American and their off spring are mixed. Of course I see the races. I embrace all the cultural celebrations. I have been treated different as white blond haired member of this family as the older generations abandoned their racism towards whites and embraced us. I saw how my Japanese grandmother spoke about Chinese people until one joined her family and presented her with a grandchild.
> 
> There was lots of racism, not very much hate.


I had a funny response (at least to me) but I opted not to post it because I am pretty PC and don't want banned.


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## light rain (Jan 14, 2013)

Poppy, I just wanted to kindly point out that not posting because you are PC is a whole different reason than not posting because you didn't want to be banned. Both are valid but not the same philosophy. Been there, done that.


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## where I want to (Oct 28, 2008)

Oggie said:


> I try not to make assumptions based on race, because more often than not, I'm wrong.
> 
> Just because someone is white, black, brown, yellow, red or whatever doesn't usually mean that they share character traits with others who are the same color.


They pretty much share similar characteristics. The tendency to form similar groups being one. And the tendency to be suspicious of others not in the group is another. And the fate of those outsiders resemble each other too. Unpleasantly similar.
The problem is disregarding the similarities that make people dangerous to each other and that includes the predatory nature of humans, especially humans in groups egging each other on and individuals who are physically stronger another.
And since race is a serious bonding issue, it is impossible to ignore in many situations.


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## Oggie (May 29, 2003)

where I want to said:


> They pretty much share similar characteristics. The tendency to form similar groups being one. And the tendency to be suspicious of others not in the group is another. And the fate of those outsiders resemble each other too. Unpleasantly similar.
> The problem is disregarding the similarities that make people dangerous to each other and that includes the predatory nature of humans, especially humans in groups egging each other on and individuals who are physically stronger another.
> And since race is a serious bonding issue, it is impossible to ignore in many situations.



Around here (meaning where I live), race is actually a fairly poor indicator of what sort of a person I might be dealing with.

A darker-skinned person might be a doctor, lawyer, college professor or corporate executive or the spouse or child of any one of those.

Someone who appears to be white might be from a long line of welfare-dependents or perhaps a meth cooker.

And, because of the international reach of area industries and universities, a white person might be German or Spanish and a black person might be from Ghana or Nigeria.

In other parts of the United States where I like to spend time, a person who appears to me to be Hispanic might have been in the country for two months or he or she might be part of a family that has been in the country for more than 300 years.

Nothing in an assumption I might make about what a person's race might be gives me much information about their character.

For me, race just doesn't work all that well if I am trying to form assumptions. Things such as cleanliness, mannerisms, etc., seem to be a bit more reliable.

Although even those aren't always accurate or fair as some guy on a Harley that I assumed was probably in some sort of a motorcycle gang once explained to me.


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## gapeach (Dec 23, 2011)

I can honestly say that I have never been a racist in my life. 
_I despise the connotation that if you live in the south you have to be a racist.
We live in harmony for the most part here. The most crime that we have is black on black or white on white. We whites and blacks live side by side and we are good neighbors with each other. We take care of each other when we have troubles and we watch out for each other's houses. I do not go along with the idea that everybody is racist. 


_


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## Patchouli (Aug 3, 2011)

Defensiveness about racism tends to be a pretty good indicator you have a problem with it. 

The official definition:



> World English Dictionary
> *racism * _or _ *racialism * (&#712;re&#618;s&#618;z&#601;m, &#712;re&#618;&#643;&#601;&#716;l&#618;z&#601;m) â *n * 1. the belief that races have distinctive cultural characteristics determined by hereditary factors and that this endows some races with an intrinsic superiority over others
> 
> 2. abusive or aggressive behaviour towards members of another race on the basis of such a belief


http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/racism

No hate is required just a sense of superiority or a belief that certain races are born to do certain things. We see posts like that pretty routinely around here.


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## Convoy (Dec 2, 2012)

Well I see racists as just not that smart - it's pretty simple there is great people and the in-polite word for donkeys in every race and religion so to stop racism you need to increase IQ. That also reminds me of a saying common sense ain't that common anymore.

The other thing that I can compare with racism is elitism which I dislike as well seeming if you think your better than another person without sound reasoning (like a drug dealer) you're just proving how low of person you actually are.


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## DEKE01 (Jul 17, 2013)

Patchouli said:


> Defensiveness about racism tends to be a pretty good indicator you have a problem with it.
> 
> The official definition:
> 
> ...


I've seen you post vile, hateful, racist comments in numerous threads. And don't you dare deny it because as you well know...

"Defensiveness about racism tends to be a pretty good indicator you have a problem with it."


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## Convoy (Dec 2, 2012)

DEKE01 said:


> I've seen you post vile, hateful, racist comments in numerous threads. And don't you dare deny it because as you well know...
> 
> "Defensiveness about racism tends to be a pretty good indicator you have a problem with it."


Well I have a problem with racist's - I hate racist's and all elitists  

Even us ******** have lots of class - it's just lower :stirpot:


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## gapeach (Dec 23, 2011)

Ozarks Tom said:


> Oh, I've experience racism. I was jumped by 3 black guys in downtown Augusta GA. We were all in the army, and they used some rather innovative language to describe me.
> 
> I get a laugh out of progressive's professed attitude towards race. Some of their heroes were crazy with hatred toward blacks. Margaret Sanger, the founder of Planned Parenthood screeched eugenics constantly. The first progressive President, Woodrow Wilson segregated the services. The democrat party was the party of segregation for over a century. What could be more racist and condescending than affirmative action?
> 
> ...


Ha,ha,ha! You are so right. I really don't think it is racism today that everybody worries about so much. It is political correctness. Racism will take care of itself if race baiters like Al Sharpton,Jessie Jackson,and Barack Obama will stop. We have come a very long way since the riots of the 60's that were mostly in the south. I think* BO has set us back a long way but we will get over him once he is out of office and we are back to normal again. Actually, our schools here in the south do well as far as race goes and our colleges do as well. *
Looking forward to the O admin moving on where we can all get back to outside interference and our country getting along again with each other.


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## where I want to (Oct 28, 2008)

crazyfarm said:


> I hate threads like this. Most often the people commenting have never experienced racism. Easy to laugh about something you don't have to live.


Yeah, right, an assumption based on nothing but prejudice.


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## where I want to (Oct 28, 2008)

Oggie said:


> Around here (meaning where I live), race is actually a fairly poor indicator of what sort of a person I might be dealing with.
> 
> A darker-skinned person might be a doctor, lawyer, college professor or corporate executive or the spouse or child of any one of those.
> 
> ...


It's amazing the number of people who repeat that they would never judge anyone by their race as if it's all your choice. Amazing assuming of power- that you would be the one making all those decisions about race and that there aren't other people involved. Such security. Your choice.
There are huge swaths of people who look on whatever you are as a negative. Places where you can feel instant hate or have to tread very carefully to avoid offense because offense if almost a knee jerk reaction. Not from all but enough that your security is tenuous simply for being not part of the dominant racial group. Where your very physical strangeness is a matter for treating you at a distance at best or eliminating you as an irritation at worst. 
It's very illuminating thing to find that behind the politeness of many cultures that you are not only as important as you think, but your very assumption of equality is offensive and strange. 
It doesn't happen often that you are in a position to hear you and yours discussed without the veneer of manners and culture but it is a very worth while experience. 
As with most interactions, it is not all about you. And you ignore others at your peril if you find yourself in the wrong place. Race matters on all sides. 
Why is always that a consideration of race means to many fighting personal stereotypes when it really means much more?


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## JJ Grandits (Nov 10, 2002)

JJ Grandits said:


> Actually, yes you do. A racisits hatred may be unfounded, it may be motivated by fear, it may reflect their own insecurity, but no matter what the cause it is motivated by hate. Next revelation, we are all racists. We may deny it, we may hide it, but in one way or another we are. It may be a very small part of our being but it's still there. Denying it is lying to yourself. The best way to solve the problem is realizing it exists. It is an infantile weakness. We are all created in the image of God. Who are we to find a differance?


 
Racism, a program or practice of racial discrimination, segregation, persecution, and domination based on racialism.


Racialism, a doctrine or feeling of racial differences or antagonisms, especially with reference to supposed racial superiority, inferiority, or purity; racial prejudice, hatred, or discrimination.


Racists, (adj.) of or as characterized by racism.  A person who believes in the doctrine of racism or who advocates or practices racism.

Thought we better get back to basics.


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## Eric Shultz (Jan 21, 2013)

I detest nascar. I must be a racist.


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## Convoy (Dec 2, 2012)

Eric Shultz said:


> I detest nascar. I must be a racist.


Really I don't detest nascar but find it extremely boring - I just don't get what so fascinating about watching car drive in a circle over and over again - then again I'm the type would would rather play a sport than watch it any day.


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## Eric Shultz (Jan 21, 2013)

At least I am not alone in my racism.
lol


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

painterswife said:


> Choosing your own race will not stop racism. Racism is other people having a problem with what you are no matter what it is. Threads like this prove that.


Zebras run as a herd.


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

Eric Shultz said:


> I detest nascar. I must be a racist.


No, you are just not a racer.


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## kasilofhome (Feb 10, 2005)

This.s year there .Will be no Hispanics in the Kenai school district. ....... as it is mandated, not optional to pick at least one race and Hispanics and Latino is not listed. Nor is paisley for that matter.

There is no reason to select race period. Each student is different with different abilities,needs,and goals. The push to leave it private on many governmental forms seems to have ended in the last few years. I wonder why there is this push to view us by the race. Historical this is a very bad sign for a nation.

Just as when the Jews were forced to physically label themselves the king of Sweden orders all to were the star thus binding the nation verse dividing. 

To me if all it took for manning to change his record in the governmental files was to proclaim he was a different sex and the government granted him that so can we all select are race. Is it not a personal difineing qualifier of who we are as a person? 

Due we all have the right to be comfortable in our own skins and body? 

Why let society .....government define who you are. Does the government know you as a person or are you only a member of a group for which they with biased eyes will determine what you are capable of, need, want?

Think about it 

IQ, strenth, work ethic,wealth, dreams and goals varies by the individuals not by a group.


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## Tabitha (Apr 10, 2006)

Walter Williams on lunatic hate

http://www.lewrockwell.com/2014/05/walter-e-williams/white-privilege/


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## DEKE01 (Jul 17, 2013)

Tabitha said:


> Walter Williams on lunatic hate
> 
> http://www.lewrockwell.com/2014/05/walter-e-williams/white-privilege/


I love Walter Williams, or at least I would love his writings if I wasn't a racist. Since I don't like Obama or his Ocare, I am a racist, therefore I can't like Walter Williams. No...wait...


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## Patchouli (Aug 3, 2011)

DEKE01 said:


> I've seen you post vile, hateful, racist comments in numerous threads. And don't you dare deny it because as you well know...
> 
> "Defensiveness about racism tends to be a pretty good indicator you have a problem with it."



:umno: I think you are confusing defensiveness about racism with defending against racism. 2 very different things. If you are perpetually prefacing your statements with things like "now I am not a racist but...." or say starting threads to talk about how other races have problems that your race does not that would be defensiveness about racism . If you on the other hand spend a lot of your time trying to get rid of racism and pointing when things are racist and defending races other than your own against attacks then that would be defending against racism. 

I have never posted a single vile, hateful, racist statement here and I would appreciate you not spreading such lies about me. If you are going to spread such slander you should at least back it up with something I have said. You will not find anything though.


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## JeffreyD (Dec 27, 2006)

Patchouli said:


> :umno: I think you are confusing defensiveness about racism with defending against racism. 2 very different things. If you are perpetually prefacing your statements with things like "now I am not a racist but...." or say starting threads to talk about how other races have problems that your race does not that would be defensiveness about racism . If you on the other hand spend a lot of your time trying to get rid of racism and pointing when things are racist and defending races other than your own against attacks then that would be defending against racism.
> 
> I have never posted a single vile, hateful, racist statement here and I would appreciate you not spreading such lies about me. If you are going to spread such slander you should at least back it up with something I have said. You will not find anything though.


Slander to some....truth to others! We all have our own values and opinions!


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## Convoy (Dec 2, 2012)

so I'm curious. I have don't like certain culture points like my manager is from Sri Lanka and I had to explain him here managers don't look down on employees because some of them can do the managers job with no problem and are the real keystones in running a successful business. Where he's from managers are considered better than the average employee who are looked on on the same level of slaves.

I also have a problem with seeing violence as the first and only way to any disagreement which I have seen prevalent in several different cultures which frankly make me weary of them.

So would this make me racist since I do judge each person separately but understand that certain cultures have thing in them I can never agree to and still be my idea of civilized gentleman?


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## Patchouli (Aug 3, 2011)

JeffreyD said:


> Slander to some....truth to others! We all have our own values and opinions!


You can have all of the values and opinions you want but telling flat lies is just wrong. Anyone can look back through my posts and see you are doing nothing but slandering me. The fact you refuse to back up your slander is proof enough. Not sure what kind of values that qualifies as to you but to me it is pretty low.


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## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

Convoy said:


> so I'm curious. I have don't like certain culture points like my manager is from Sri Lanka and I had to explain him here managers don't look down on employees because some of them can do the managers job with no problem and are the real keystones in running a successful business. Where he's from managers are considered better than the average employee who are looked on on the same level of slaves.
> 
> I also have a problem with seeing violence as the first and only way to any disagreement which I have seen prevalent in several different cultures which frankly make me weary of them.
> 
> So would this make me racist since I do judge each person separately but understand that certain cultures have thing in them I can never agree to and still be my idea of civilized gentleman?


Actually lots of mangers and superiors look down on employees. That is an individual failing not one based on race or culture.


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## mmoetc (Oct 9, 2012)

where I want to said:


> Neither does denying the existence of an innate attribute. If I am insecure about a situation involving a group of people, then I am going to try to align myself with those who resemble me most closely as they are least likely to find something objectionable in me to pick on.
> 
> Actually most everyone is the same- they say don't "hate" the ones they despise, but the ones they despise are obviously full of "hate" otherwise they would certainly agree. As my mom used to quote "All the world's crazy except thee and me and I have my doubts about thee."
> 
> Most people find themselves very reasonable and therefore anyone who disagrees is unreasonable. Not calling it hate doesn't mean it's not.


But I didn't deny that innate attribute as you call it. I did say it doesn't only have to be centered in hate. I do assert that simply saying everyone has this innate attribute and using that to excuse racist behaviour disregards a wide spectrum of human behavior and interactions. Our own country is an example of both ends of that spectrum of behavior. We have many who hate those of different races or ethnicities. We also have many members in all the various races and ethnicities that exist here who somehow overcome this innate attribute and live side by side in peace and tranquility, work and play together and sometimes even fall in love with each other. So much for innate hatred. Being born "that way" doesn't excuse bad behaviour.


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## JeffreyD (Dec 27, 2006)

Patchouli said:


> You can have all of the values and opinions you want but telling flat lies is just wrong. Anyone can look back through my posts and see you are doing nothing but slandering me. The fact you refuse to back up your slander is proof enough. Not sure what kind of values that qualifies as to you but to me it is pretty low.



Jerk that knee a lot do ya?
Maybe you could point out where I have slandered you? Why would I need to back up anything when I have said nothing? 

I think that your very confused!! Very confused indeed!


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## Tex- (May 18, 2014)

We cannot expect an America free of racism until we see an America free of hyphenated Americans.

People who insist upon enunciating their differences should expect nothing less than being treated differently.



Tex


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## DEKE01 (Jul 17, 2013)

Patchouli said:


> :umno: I think you are confusing defensiveness about racism with defending against racism. 2 very different things. If you are perpetually prefacing your statements with things like "now I am not a racist but...." or say starting threads to talk about how other races have problems that your race does not that would be defensiveness about racism . If you on the other hand spend a lot of your time trying to get rid of racism and pointing when things are racist and defending races other than your own against attacks then that would be defending against racism.
> 
> I have never posted a single vile, hateful, racist statement here and I would appreciate you not spreading such lies about me. If you are going to spread such slander you should at least back it up with something I have said. You will not find anything though.


No, I was not confusing that at all. I used a made up example, no I have not seen you post vile, racist words. I thought it would be clear what point I was making. Apparently not. My mistake.

Your last parag is you being defensive about someone calling you a racist. Since you didn't get it...just because someone is defensive, like you, about being called a racist does not mean they are a racist. Your claim in a prior post, "Defensiveness about racism tends to be a pretty good indicator you have a problem with it." I disagree and used this example to show why. The term racist is thrown around too often today, merely because someone disagrees with the NAACP approved position. If you are black, you are called an Uncle Tom, usually by a black politician, if white you are called a racist because you think urban blacks should be able to have school choice, or that welfare entraps people in poverty. I hate that because it obfuscates true racism. 

I swear I could walk in some places and announce that blacks have darker skin than whites and that would be enough to get me branded a racist.


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## kasilofhome (Feb 10, 2005)

Would it not be more effective if we were just members of say the human race period and band together to deal with those who transgress over the real rights all American humans have with no care of the color of the eyes,lenght of hair, or preferred food. See unified we are stronger and dividing a large group can be done by any difference we have. Let's ....if we must divide by character.


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## Patchouli (Aug 3, 2011)

JeffreyD said:


> Jerk that knee a lot do ya?
> Maybe you could point out where I have slandered you? Why would I need to back up anything when I have said nothing?
> 
> I think that your very confused!! Very confused indeed!


Oh please now you are trying to bait me into attacking you. Fortunately I don't stoop to your level. You know what you said, you know it was meant as nothing but a personal attack and it was a lie and that is that.


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## Patchouli (Aug 3, 2011)

kasilofhome said:


> Would it not be more effective if we were just members of say the human race period and band together to deal with those who transgress over the real rights all American humans have with no care of the color of the eyes,lenght of hair, or preferred food. See unified we are stronger and dividing a large group can be done by any difference we have. Let's ....if we must divide by character.


I don't think anyone would disagree with this. Not sure how you got here though from your OP. If you had started with why can't we all just get along and ignore our petty differences you would have gotten very different responses.


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## kasilofhome (Feb 10, 2005)

Well, I got there because I learned over fifty years ago that if you want something to happen something then start talking about it and talk like it is already true.



So,did some self proclaimed reverend who have the title but can't come up with where they earned. Their have been these hateful persons of poor character speaking trash promoting violence and a media,and the current president praising those persons for really evil work.

In a publicly worked humans are being trained like dogs with a bell.

Instead of a bell ....we use public control...Pc world and media.

It is cool to be a Victim, you are able to join the wagon and get your victim card. Mlk s work and successful is being lost in the path of vengeful leaders with a microphone and screen time. 

Sorry but I know very few stupid people who divide by race..but should the ever have to deal with a person with a Victim card ....victims are trained that the world rejects them because of a bias never could rejection,discipline, or waiting be due anything else.

How sad a live for those who hold on to a Victim card.


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## Patchouli (Aug 3, 2011)

kasilofhome said:


> Well, I got there because I learned over fifty years ago that if you want something to happen something then start talking about it and talk like it is already true.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


And then you just shot it all down right there with this post. You need to be the change you want to see.


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## MichaelZ (May 21, 2013)

Be kind to others, regardless of how they look, as much as possible. That is how you end racism. And to know that I practice what I preach, I have street witnessed in areas that were less than safe - once there was even a stabbing 20 feet away involving a fellow I spoke with only minutes before. In my _book_, all people are worthy of salvation.


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## kasilofhome (Feb 10, 2005)

If I change it would only mean that I would join up with the Al Sharpton of the would. He and others may label me but I know that I stand with those who value character and action verses looks. But patch, where do you stand ....what cards do you hold.


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## JeffreyD (Dec 27, 2006)

Patchouli said:


> Oh please now you are trying to bait me into attacking you. Fortunately I don't stoop to your level. You know what you said, you know it was meant as nothing but a personal attack and it was a lie and that is that.



:stars:
Meds...proper meds are the answer.

I really think you have me confused with someone else! Please point to where I have ever called you a liar or personal attacked you. You really are confused!


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## Patchouli (Aug 3, 2011)

kasilofhome said:


> If I change it would only mean that I would join up with the Al Sharpton of the would. He and others may label me but I know that I stand with those who value character and action verses looks. But patch, where do you stand ....what cards do you hold.


The only way to end racism is education and not perpetuating it. It also helps if you aren't living in isolation and only hanging out with people of your own race. As I mentioned in another thread my spouse comes from a family where racism was prevalent. We were more enlightened and we raised our children in a home where racism was not tolerated and where they met people from a lot of different cultures, countries and races. Problem solved. 

Serving in the military all of us have lived in close quarters with people of multiple races and cultures and we all got along fine. We have met people along the way who made assumptions about us but we were able to overcome that by treating them with respect and letting them know we were not the sort of people they may have met before. 

Be the change you want to see really is my motto and it works.


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## kasilofhome (Feb 10, 2005)

Stop being a Victim is very helpful. When one is scouting for racism to justified results one can excuse behavior and lay down the card.


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## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

kasilofhome said:


> Stop being a Victim is very helpful. When one is scouting for racism to justified results one can excuse behavior and lay down the card.


"Stop being a victim" You think that is going to stop racism? Novel concept. Do you tell that to spouses that get hit by their SO's or women that are raped? The problem is with the racists not the person of race.


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## kasilofhome (Feb 10, 2005)

Al, Jessie,wright, Obama are all into education so education is not the answer seems the more they speak the more it is a PROBLEM. Simply deleting the government requiring to divide people by race. Why have studies as to the number of students by race get detention and rather than deal with the bad behavior focus on why the number deviate from the demographic of the school makeup. Why even have a demographic of the students. Each human is separate individual. Should it matter what color of hair the have or if the are lefties or righties.


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## DEKE01 (Jul 17, 2013)

painterswife said:


> "Stop being a victim" You think that is going to stop racism? Novel concept. Do you tell that to spouses that get hit by their SO's or women that are raped? The problem is with the racists not the person of race.


In some cases, yes, the beaten wife has to stop being the victim. She needs to take enough control to move out, get help, call the cops, hire a divorce lawyer. Simply being a victim of an abuser won't make it stop. 

To tie this rather tenuous analogy back to racism, it is awful hard for a racist to disparage blacks as stupid/uneducated, which was something I heard a lot as a kid, when you have Walter Williams, Condy Rice, Clarence Thomas, and many others who are clearly smarter and better educated than the average Joe. Whining, like Sharpton and J Jackson do, doesn't end racism. High performance and results can end racism. However, I acknowledge that folks who are looking for a reason to hate others, will always be able to find a reason to do so.


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## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

DEKE01 said:


> In some cases, yes, the beaten wife has to stop being the victim. She needs to take enough control to move out, get help, call the cops, hire a divorce lawyer. Simply being a victim of an abuser won't make it stop.
> 
> To tie this rather tenuous analogy back to racism, it is awful hard for a racist to disparage blacks as stupid/uneducated, which was something I heard a lot as a kid, when you have Walter Williams, Condy Rice, Clarence Thomas, and many others who are clearly smarter and better educated than the average Joe. Whining, like Sharpton and J Jackson do, doesn't end racism. High performance and results can end racism. However, I acknowledge that folks who are looking for a reason to hate others, will always be able to find a reason to do so.


Education of those that are the victims of racism does not stop racism. The racist is the one who needs to be educated.


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## Patchouli (Aug 3, 2011)

kasilofhome said:


> Stop being a Victim is very helpful. When one is scouting for racism to justified results one can excuse behavior and lay down the card.


If there is no racism there can be no victims. It's funny how these threads always wind up telling other people what they should do and sloughing off responsibility instead of saying what you can and have done.


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## light rain (Jan 14, 2013)

DEKE01, you forgot one thing, for the beaten wife. She needs to get a gun she feels confident with, take lessons, and practice. The police, the "do not contact orders", the nice platitudes do little to help her or her children when someone(SO or stranger) comes bursting in her door at 3:00am. 

Painterswife, I know you believe whole-heartedly in your viewpoints. You have that right. But consider this.

80 plus yrs. ago maybe ninety my Swedish grandfather was a fisherman in FLA. He loved kids, he and my grandmother had 8. Over 25 years difference in some siblings. Anyway, the black children would come to him and he would clean and medicate their sores. My mother called them Florida sores. After he was finished he'd yell an ethic slur and call into question their paternity. He did not like to see children suffer, at least physically, I don't believe my grandmother or aunts and uncles ever assisted him. I am curious what you and other folks here think of this situation. The older I get the more I acknowledge the inconsistencies and blurred realities in life.


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## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

light rain said:


> DEKE01, you forgot one thing, for the beaten wife. She needs to get a gun she feels confident with, take lessons, and practice. The police, the "do not contact orders", the nice platitudes do little to help her or her children when someone(SO or stranger) comes bursting in her door at 3:00am.
> 
> Painterswife, I know you believe whole-heartedly in your viewpoints. You have that right. But consider this.
> 
> 80 plus yrs. ago maybe ninety my Swedish grandfather was a fisherman in FLA. He loved kids, he and my grandmother had 8. Over 25 years difference in some siblings. Anyway, the black children would come to him and he would clean and medicate their sores. My mother called them Florida sores. After he was finished he'd yell an ethic slur and call into question their paternity. He did not like to see children suffer, at least physically, I don't believe my grandmother or aunts and uncles ever assisted him. I am curious what you and other folks here think of this situation. The older I get the more I acknowledge the inconsistencies and blurred realities in life.


I don't understand what you are saying and therefore asking.


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## DEKE01 (Jul 17, 2013)

painterswife said:


> Education of those that are the victims of racism does not stop racism. The racist is the one who needs to be educated.


Agreed. 

However, it misses my point which was in direct response to your comments. Did you even try to get what I was saying?


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## kasilofhome (Feb 10, 2005)

Tax cheat Al, hate spewing Jerry, are not positive role models for anyone yet they have firm hold on the media and culture. I can not think of a current person attacking minorities that is respected by the media to the point that not a week goes by without some event coverage. MlK truly had a message for all. It was the same message.


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## light rain (Jan 14, 2013)

What I'm saying is there is no solution to racism, that people will be people, grounded and steadfast in their beliefs one decade(day) maybe different in the next. Unless we can control everyone's freedom to think and evaluate there is endless opportunity for this discussion, forever. And I, for one hope that Americans will always have the freedom to have differing views, otherwise, we're just soulless robots waiting for the recycling bin.


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## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

DEKE01 said:


> Agreed.
> 
> However, it misses my point which was in direct response to your comments. Did you even try to get what I was saying?


"High performance and results can end racism. " Was that your point? I think I responded quite succinctly. The problem is all with the racists not with the race therefore education and performance has no bearing or we would already be rid of racism.


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## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

light rain said:


> What I'm saying is there is no solution to racism, that people will be people, grounded and steadfast in their beliefs one decade(day) maybe different in the next. Unless we can control everyone's freedom to think and evaluate there is endless opportunity for this discussion, forever. And I, for one hope that Americans will always have the freedom to have differing views, otherwise, we're just soulless robots waiting for the recycling bin.


I agree we may never be rid of racism. That does not however mean we should not continue to fight until it barely exists.


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## kasilofhome (Feb 10, 2005)

The real reason why a person does not get the job,raise, school, home, specific friend,date seat in on a plane might be easy to vent that it is racism but I have rejected people due to their demeanor. Check my son missed out on a job.....he went in tired, with no energy thus the stranger viewed him as lazy. He is not but what he showed her was behavior of a lazy work ...moving slow,not focusing so much that the lady rightfully stated that she wanted someone who wanted the job that showed an interest in the work.

Oh, it would take way my son's personal responsibility (same personal responsibility an adult person in an abusive situation has) if I pointed out that she was white and he is not white, that he is a teen in high school and she was not...... oh if we search we could find lots of true differences between my son and the female owner. I could have given him a Victim card but no. For the first time he was not prepared for the interview and he faced the results. I was him to have a better life so I laid it out. Prep for a job ....show an interest. Think about no scheduling an interview 10 minutes after weight lifting session. Dumb choice learn from it.

There are a lot of people in this world not everyone is going to be in love with you and it is no racist....
Just life.


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## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

kasilofhome said:


> The real reason why a person does not get the job,raise, school, home, specific friend,date seat in on a plane might be easy to vent that it is racism but I have rejected people due to their demeanor. Check my son missed out on a job.....he went in tired, with no energy thus the stranger viewed him as lazy. He is not but what he showed her was behavior of a lazy work ...moving slow,not focusing so much that the lady rightfully stated that she wanted someone who wanted the job that showed an interest in the work.
> 
> Oh, it would take way my son's personal responsibility (same personal responsibility an adult person in an abusive situation has) if I pointed out that she was white and he is not white, that he is a teen in high school and she was not...... oh if we search we could find lots of true differences between my son and the female owner. I could have given him a Victim card but no. For the first time he was not prepared for the interview and he faced the results. I was him to have a better life so I laid it out. Prep for a job ....show an interest. Think about no scheduling an interview 10 minutes after weight lifting session. Dumb choice learn from it.
> 
> ...


That means there is no racism? I do not agree.


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## kasilofhome (Feb 10, 2005)

Well do you and I disagree because you are racist or because you and I have different views.

I believe that there was far less racial discrimination prior to Obama being elected.


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## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

kasilofhome said:


> Well do you and I disagree because you are racist or because you and I have different views.
> 
> I believe that there was far less racial discrimination prior to Obama being elected.


I don,t know your race so it would be hard to use that as a basis to disagree,


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## kasilofhome (Feb 10, 2005)

I stated that I am Paisley. See the being of these thread.


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## Tex- (May 18, 2014)

I don't believe there is nearly as much racism as what is being portrayed. We have people promoting racism for personal gain and we have politicians keeping the racial pot stirred in order to keep folks from seeing what they are really up to. Either way, both of these groups are dealing with a populace that obviously isn't smart enough to see through the ruse. 

Why do people keep focusing on the things the hucksters and liars want them to, rather than the things that actually matter? Pavlov's dogs come to mind. At the first mention of racism people start frothing at the mouth.

Take the profit out of it for the hucksters and start paying attention to what those in DC are doing rather than saying and I bet the problem corrects itself alot better than a bunch of holier than thou non-racists ever could.


Tex


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## light rain (Jan 14, 2013)

Talking about everything sort of being a shell game today I was throwing away some old newspapers and magazines. One was an issue of AARP. I leafed through it and read an extensive article on how localities are selling off either tax debt or water or other service incurred debt to private entities. It said only 2 states, WI and California virtually prohibited that. DC was used as an example and several elderly people of color were victims. The companies come in, charge high interest and people, some war veterans, are losing their homes and the companies are making a huge profit reselling the old folks homes. To me, confronting this kind of collusion would be a more effective way of fighting racism and ageism than all the talk shows, school seminars and whatever the sociologists and politicians have planned for us. Oh, that's right, it was a politician or group that decided to sell the debt to private enterprise in the first place. For people of any age, but especially the elderly to lose their homes for maybe a $300.00 debt is despicable.


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## DEKE01 (Jul 17, 2013)

painterswife said:


> "High performance and results can end racism. " Was that your point? I think I responded quite succinctly. The problem is all with the racists not with the race therefore education and performance has no bearing or we would already be rid of racism.


Let me try it from a different angle. Institutionalized racism is largely (not completely) dead in America. Individual racism thrives in many forms and is practiced by members of all races. But a racist that doesn't like you for whatever reason, real or imagined, usually can only hurt you with your permission. Live well, do great things, move beyond his racism. What you can't do is force him to change his mind. 

If it is racism in the workplace, that is of course a different issue. That racist can hurt you and should be exposed and punished, because even if you can't change his mind, you might just be able to change his actions.

However, I still submit, your best tool for defeating him is to out perform his expectations. At worst, you'll get more educated, more experienced, and more skilled and be able to move on to bigger and better things. 

Or you can do the opposite and simply play the role of the victim. That does not end racism, it sometimes perpetuates it, and does nothing to better the lot of the target of racism.


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## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

DEKE01 said:


> Let me try it from a different angle. Institutionalized racism is largely (not completely) dead in America. Individual racism thrives in many forms and is practiced by members of all races. But a racist that doesn't like you for whatever reason, real or imagined, usually can only hurt you with your permission. Live well, do great things, move beyond his racism. What you can't do is force him to change his mind.
> 
> If it is racism in the workplace, that is of course a different issue. That racist can hurt you and should be exposed and punished, because even if you can't change his mind, you might just be able to change his actions.
> 
> ...


The idea that the victim has to be the one to change to stop someone else from victimizing them is ridicoulos.


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## DEKE01 (Jul 17, 2013)

painterswife said:


> The idea that the victim has to be the one to change to stop someone else from victimizing them is ridicoulos.


got it. you are against education and self improvement. 

Absent some way to exercise power of you, how does a hater victimize you?


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## kasilofhome (Feb 10, 2005)

hdrider said:


> zebras run as a herd.





deke01 said:


> let me try it from a different angle. Institutionalized racism is largely (not completely) dead in america. Individual racism thrives in many forms and is practiced by members of all races. But a racist that doesn't like you for whatever reason, real or imagined, usually can only hurt you with your permission. Live well, do great things, move beyond his racism. What you can't do is force him to change his mind.
> 
> If it is racism in the workplace, that is of course a different issue. That racist can hurt you and should be exposed and punished, because even if you can't change his mind, you might just be able to change his actions.
> 
> ...




that is the solution. Mlk was doing just that ....gandi did just that ... Violence has not worked. Persons who have improved themself 
fredrick douglas born a slave refused to limit himself seeking to be better than his opressers in a time where the roadblocks were hard than today. He,and others exchanged the victim card in for a key to sucess that the forged for themself.


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## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

DEKE01 said:


> got it. you are against education and self improvement.
> 
> Absent some way to exercise power of you, how does a hater victimize you?


How do you deduce that I am against education and self improvement from my opinion that the person of race does not need to change to somehow make the racist not racists? I see no logic in that bizarre conclusion.


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## kasilofhome (Feb 10, 2005)

Maybe the resistance to the idea is an indication.


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## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

kasilofhome said:


> Maybe the resistance to the idea is an indication.


Resistance to the idea that the problem is with the racists and not the person of race? If that leads to your conclusions then I don't want to be on that path of logic.


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## kasilofhome (Feb 10, 2005)

Twice you have reference that there is a group of people with out race who do harm to person of race. I have never met a person without race. Please explain ...define...clarify.. or attach a link so that I can learn about the people without race. 

I was taught that that government had a pigeon hole to divide all humans into.


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## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

kasilofhome said:


> Twice you have reference that there is a group of people with out race who do harm to person of race. I have never met a person without race. Please explain ...define...clarify.. or attach a link so that I can learn about the people without race.
> 
> I was taught that that government had a pigeon hole to divide all humans into.


Please be so kind and show me an example of me saying such.


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## kasilofhome (Feb 10, 2005)

HDRider said:


> Zebras run as a herd.





painterswife said:


> Resistance to the idea that the problem is with the racists and not the person of race? If that leads to your conclusions then I don't want to be on that path of logic.


and not the person of race


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## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

kasilofhome said:


> and not the person of race


"Not the person of race" means not the person who is the object of racism. It does not mean they have no race.


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## kasilofhome (Feb 10, 2005)

painterswife said:


> How do you deduce that I am against education and self improvement from my opinion that the person of race does not need to change to somehow make the racist not racists? I see no logic in that bizarre conclusion.


the person of race does not need to chage

Who is with out a race?


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## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

kasilofhome said:


> the person of race does not need to chage
> 
> Who is with out a race?


HuH? Never said that.


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## kasilofhome (Feb 10, 2005)

Is it the race or is it behavior that is the root issue. When a suggestion ...with merit is provide it is rebuked as not worthy of attempting.....Even when shown to work. Thus it might appear that some prefer to complain and fester verses changing there status quo.....which might also explain they also attack and belittle those who could use race as a rational to limit themselves but do not. Who dispute the being of the same race in choosing a course of improvement have succeeded.


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## kasilofhome (Feb 10, 2005)

painterswife said:


> How do you deduce that I am against education and self improvement from my opinion that the person of race does not need to change to somehow make the racist not racists? I see no logic in that bizarre conclusion.


I took it from this post of your


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## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

kasilofhome said:


> Is it the race or is it behavior that is the root issue. When a suggestion ...with merit is provide it is rebuked as not worthy of attempting.....Even when shown to work. Thus it might appear that some prefer to complain and fester verses changing there status quo.....which might also explain they also attack and belittle those who could use race as a rational to limit themselves but do not. Who dispute the being of the same race in choosing a course of improvement have succeeded.


Racism is judging an individual based on race and has nothing to do with behavior of the individual. I see now that you are mixing the two and not really talking about racism at all.


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## mmoetc (Oct 9, 2012)

I don't think painter is saying that people shouldn't work to improve themselves and that this work and improvement isn't beneficial. But all the work, improvement, education and job skills one obtains won't change the prejudices of others. Many of the people you cite as examples, even with all of their accomplishments, were treated as second class citizens in their lifetimes. Opportunities available to others were still denied them because of their race. I asked the question earlier about the business owner who shreds all applications submitted by those of a different race before looking at them. How are any improvements an individual makes going to change this behavior?


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## kasilofhome (Feb 10, 2005)

Most people of any race are seldom respected more in life than in death. Effort does matter. Did you know that FREDRICK DOUGLAS was an advisor to presidents of his day. Do you even know what inspired him to forge his ow key to success? Paraphrasing his words it was as a young boy and his master informed him that he would never have to worry about his future as he the master would always take care of him. FD VEIWED THAT THE SECURITY BY SOMEONE ELES SEEING TO HIS PERSON WELFARE WAS THE LIMITING FACTOR FROM FREEDOM.


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## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

kasilofhome said:


> Most people of any race are seldom respected more in life than in death. Effort does matter. Did you know that FREDRICK DOUGLAS was an advisor to presidents of his day. Do you even know what inspired him to forge his ow key to success? Paraphrasing his words it was as a young boy and his master informed him that he would never have to worry about his future as he the master would always take care of him. FD VEIWED THAT THE SECURITY BY SOMEONE ELES SEEING TO HIS PERSON WELFARE WAS THE LIMITING FACTOR FROM FREEDOM.


Racism is based on people judging people because of their race. It has nothing to do with their individual accomplishments.


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## mmoetc (Oct 9, 2012)

kasilofhome said:


> Most people of any race are seldom respected more in life than in death. Effort does matter. Did you know that FREDRICK DOUGLAS was an advisor to presidents of his day. Do you even know what inspired him to forge his ow key to success? Paraphrasing his words it was as a young boy and his master informed him that he would never have to worry about his future as he the master would always take care of him. FD VEIWED THAT THE SECURITY BY SOMEONE ELES SEEING TO HIS PERSON WELFARE WAS THE LIMITING FACTOR FROM FREEDOM.


And even as an advisor to the president there were businesses he couldn't enter, places he couldn't sleep, meals he couldn't eat ,streets he couldn't walk and many more paths blocked to him. All of his efforts and accomplishments didn't change any of this for him.


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## kasilofhome (Feb 10, 2005)

ever wonder why some achieve in every race and some do not. Education,behavior,character creating opportunities and setting goals. ....forging their personal key to success. Some people look for excuses to explain failing to succeeded....these days dumping personal failures on the backs of others verses looking in the mirror to seek out better results. Like my very dear boy better to be alert and at least fain interest during an interview verses yawning and rubbing his shoulder. Or he could claim that the white,middle age woman was a racist,sexist,generationalist.


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## mmoetc (Oct 9, 2012)

kasilofhome said:


> ever wonder why some achieve in every race and some do not. Education,behavior,character creating opportunities and setting goals. ....forging their personal key to success. Some people look for excuses to explain failing to succeeded....these days dumping personal failures on the backs of others verses looking in the mirror to seek out better results. Like my very dear boy better to be alert and at least fain interest during an interview verses yawning and rubbing his shoulder. Or he could claim that the white,middle age woman was a racist,sexist,generationalist.


But your dear boy was allowed to walk in the door, sit down and fail on his own. In many cases, racism denies even that opportunity.


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## kasilofhome (Feb 10, 2005)

mmoetc said:


> And even as an advisor to the president there were businesses he couldn't enter, places he couldn't sleep, meals he couldn't eat ,streets he couldn't walk and many more paths blocked to him. All of his efforts and accomplishments didn't change any of this for him.


True....yet those facts never hampered him in his mind ....as he had earn the respect from people important to him. He earn his own self worth and no one could break him down. He did not let fools block his achievements.


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## kasilofhome (Feb 10, 2005)

Are you saying you cannot fail on your own that it is only because you can not get in the door ...oh there was no chair to sit in for my boy. 

His great grand uncle was whipped, my grandfather was told he could not apply for work due to a bias of his country of origin yet he work.

Still those who want will fair better than those who lean on excuses.


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## Tex- (May 18, 2014)

painterswife said:


> Racism is based on people judging people because of their race. It has nothing to do with their individual accomplishments.


And that is a form of stereotyping of perceived threats that has been hardwired into our DNA over thousands of years. It has only recently been relabeled as racism and deemed un-PC. 

For thousands of years people lived in tribes made up others who all basically looked just alike. If someone different looking should wander through a new area, the natives of that region were natrually scared or leary because they did not know if this strange looking person was a threat. Just in the last few hundred years have people of different races and from different regions started co-mingling and trying to live together. 

The American indians had never had alcohol until the Europeans came here and their DNA has still not evolved far enough to allow them to enjoy alcohol like other races. If they haven't been able to overcome that evolutionary hurdle in the 500 years Europeans have been using it to their advantage, it is understandable that others are unable to overcome the thousands of years of self preservation the PC crowd now call racism.



Tex


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## JJ Grandits (Nov 10, 2002)

Wow! Fredrick Douglas, There's a name I haven't thought of in a while. Do you remember when TR invited him to dinner at the Whitehouse and the Democrats tore him a new one in the press for inviting that "n*****" to the Whitehouse? That was racism.


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## kasilofhome (Feb 10, 2005)

mmoetc said:


> But your dear boy was allowed to walk in the door, sit down and fail on his own. In many cases, racism denies even that opportunity.


And explain to me how affirmative action opens the doors for every one .....cause it shuts the doors for many better qualified people. That is racism and sexist.


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## mmoetc (Oct 9, 2012)

kasilofhome said:


> And explain to me how affirmative action opens the doors for every one .....cause it shuts the doors for many better qualified people. That is racism and sexist.


I didn't realize we were discussing affirmative action. Speaking out against racism doesn't mean I'm advocating for preferential treatment for anyone just equal treatment regardless of race.


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## mmoetc (Oct 9, 2012)

kasilofhome said:


> Are you saying you cannot fail on your own that it is only because you can not get in the door ...oh there was no chair to sit in for my boy.
> 
> His great grand uncle was whipped, my grandfather was told he could not apply for work due to a bias of his country of origin yet he work.
> 
> Still those who want will fair better than those who lean on excuses.


No, I'm saying everyone deserves the right to walk through that door and fail, or succeed, regardless of their race. There will always be some who blame their failure on others. In most cases they're wrong. In some case they're right.


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## DEKE01 (Jul 17, 2013)

painterswife said:


> How do you deduce that I am against education and self improvement from my opinion that the person of race does not need to change to somehow make the racist not racists? I see no logic in that bizarre conclusion.


well you have twice argued against self improvement, that's how I deduce that. 

How do you propose we end racism? If the top dog of the KKK is your next door neighbor, how are you gong to stop him from being racist? Are you going to be the thought police and jail him for having an unapproved ideology? Are you going to invite a mob over to camp out on his lawn and harass him every time he comes out of his house?

And while you're busy unsuccessfully forcing him to change, what do you propose your other neighbors do, the ones who are the target of the racism? Should they mope around and bemoan their dire fate because one neighbor hates them because of skin color or religion, or should they take charge of the own lives and live it to the fullest? 

If the racist takes some illegal action because of his racism, I'll join you in demanding he be punished by law. Until then, I'll respect and defend his 1A rights to be an idiot and hold impure thoughts.


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## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

DEKE01 said:


> well you have twice argued against self improvement, that's how I deduce that.
> 
> How do you propose we end racism? If the top dog of the KKK is your next door neighbor, how are you gong to stop him from being racist? Are you going to be the thought police and jail him for having an unapproved ideology? Are you going to invite a mob over to camp out on his lawn and harass him every time he comes out of his house?
> 
> ...


No one has to prove they are superior to make racism wrong. The premise that anyone is better than someone else in the first place because of their color is wrong.

As a women I have faced sexism in my business life. I have always fought it but I have never felt the need to prove to the sexist that I was better than them. Nor do I feel the need to improve myself to make them think differently. Improvement is for myself not for them. I however will always fight against sexism so that every child knows that I think it is wrong whether they choose to agree with me or not.


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## DEKE01 (Jul 17, 2013)

painterswife said:


> I agree we may never be rid of racism. That does not however mean we should not continue to fight until it barely exists.


What does it mean to fight racism when racism is a thought?


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## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

DEKE01 said:


> What does it mean to fight racism when racism is a thought?


Is it just a thought?


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## mmoetc (Oct 9, 2012)

DEKE01 said:


> What does it mean to fight racism when racism is a thought?


Your premise is flawed. Racism can be just a thought. It can also be manifested as an action or series of actions based on that thought. One can be legislated against and punished. One can be fought against with words and actions on an individual level.


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## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

mmoetc said:


> Your premise is flawed. Racism can be just a thought. It can also be manifested as an action or series of actions based on that thought. One can be legislated against and punished. One can be fought against with words and actions on an individual level.


White supremacists and the KKK come to mind.


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## DEKE01 (Jul 17, 2013)

painterswife said:


> Resistance to the idea that the problem is with the racists and not the person of race? If that leads to your conclusions then I don't want to be on that path of logic.


:bored: I agree the problem is with the racist. That is not the question.


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## JeffreyD (Dec 27, 2006)

mmoetc said:


> Your premise is flawed. Racism can be just a thought. It can also be manifested as an action or series of actions based on that thought. One can be legislated against and punished. One can be fought against with words and actions on an individual level.


So when those New Black Panthers were intimidating white voters, clearly a voting rights violation, calling to kill white cracker babies, this administration (Holder) did nothing. What message did that send? When students are picked for college based on their skin color and not on their accomplishments, what message does that send?

My solution is to treat everyone the same, pay no attention to their skin color, pay attention to them! Don't force kids into college based on skin color...it doesn't work. And if you think that racially motivated crimes should be considered hate crimes, enforce the laws equally! This administration has not done this. Why not?


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## DEKE01 (Jul 17, 2013)

mmoetc said:


> I don't think painter is saying that people shouldn't work to improve themselves and that this work and improvement isn't beneficial. But all the work, improvement, education and job skills one obtains won't change the prejudices of others. Many of the people you cite as examples, even with all of their accomplishments, were treated as second class citizens in their lifetimes. Opportunities available to others were still denied them because of their race. I asked the question earlier about the business owner who shreds all applications submitted by those of a different race before looking at them. How are any improvements an individual makes going to change this behavior?


As I stated earlier, racism in the workplace, where the racist has the power to cause harm, should be fought to the full extent of the law. And you unknowingly endorse my position above. Yes, those people faced prejudice and were denied opportunities, but they succeeded well beyond you or me. By choosing to better themselves as much as possible, instead of focusing on someone who irrationally hates them, they did their part to defeat racism. 

As painter objects to this idea, I can only conclude she is against people doing their best at self improvement. 

This is more than an academic issue for our discussion. There are too many inner city kids who resist education and use victim-hood to say they are denied opportunity. Those kids might see and hear the likes of Sharpton telling them they can't succeed, so they don't try.


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## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

DEKE01 said:


> As painter objects to this idea, I can only conclude she is against people doing their best at self improvement.
> 
> .


You keep repeating that as if it is anything more than your flawed interpretation.


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## DEKE01 (Jul 17, 2013)

mmoetc said:


> No, I'm saying everyone deserves the right to walk through that door and fail, or succeed, regardless of their race. There will always be some who blame their failure on others. In most cases they're wrong. In some case they're right.


I don't think there is anyone here arguing otherwise. I thought the issue in contention was how best to deal with that fact.


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## DEKE01 (Jul 17, 2013)

painterswife said:


> No one has to prove they are superior to make racism wrong. The premise that anyone is better than someone else in the first place because of their color is wrong.
> 
> As a women I have faced sexism in my business life. I have always fought it but I have never felt the need to prove to the sexist that I was better than them. Nor do I feel the need to improve myself to make them think differently. Improvement is for myself not for them. I however will always fight against sexism so that every child knows that I think it is wrong whether they choose to agree with me or not.


>>No one has to prove they are superior to make racism wrong. The premise that anyone is better than someone else in the first place because of their color is wrong.<<

Yes, yes, yes. A point not in contention. Why did you ignore my questions?

>>As a women I have faced sexism in my business life. <<

As did my mother when she was a young widow with 3 kids to support. I lived it and am very sensitive to it. Mom got paid 60% of the man rate in her job. And the philosophy of doing your best to better yourself worked for her. 15 years later, she was far more successful than the sexist idiot she had worked for. 

>>I have always fought it but I have never felt the need to prove to the sexist that I was better than them. Nor do I feel the need to improve myself to make them think differently. Improvement is for myself not for them.<<

EXACTLY. Improvement is for yourself. Better yourself. But what you just might see is that someone who thought less of you because you are a woman now admires you because you over came. 

>> I however will always fight against sexism so that every child knows that I think it is wrong whether they choose to agree with me or not.<<

And what do you think fights sexism more, a protest march, or a female CEO who does great things with her company?


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## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

DEKE01 said:


> >>No one has to prove they are superior to make racism wrong. The premise that anyone is better than someone else in the first place because of their color is wrong.<<
> 
> Yes, yes, yes. A point not in contention. Why did you ignore my questions?
> 
> ...


What question do you think I am not answering?


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## DEKE01 (Jul 17, 2013)

mmoetc said:


> Your premise is flawed. Racism can be just a thought. It can also be manifested as an action or series of actions based on that thought. One can be legislated against and punished. One can be fought against with words and actions on an individual level.


Painter and mmoetc, my premise is not flawed. racism can be a physical violence, denied opportunities, lower pay for equal work, and more. But usually it is not those things. It is often the bad joke, the stupid stereotype, the assumption of guilt, etc. Even more often, it is these days it is the unexpressed thought. So my question remains, when it is just a thought, how do you fight it?


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## DEKE01 (Jul 17, 2013)

painterswife said:


> You keep repeating that as if it is anything more than your flawed interpretation.


You keep arguing against the idea that people should do their personal best at self improvement. OTOH, if you agree with my position and are just too wrapped up in arguing to admit it, we can call it quits.


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## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

DEKE01 said:


> You keep arguing against the idea that people should do their personal best at self improvement. OTOH, if you agree with my position and are just too wrapped up in arguing to admit it, we can call it quits.


My premise is that the self improvement has nothing to do with the racism. I believe in self improvement. I don't believe that it should be done to prove a racist wrong. They are already wrong.


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## DEKE01 (Jul 17, 2013)

painterswife said:


> What question do you think I am not answering?


Oh how about the one that was right above your last comment. Or look at msg 140, there were several there. 

Or don't even bother. I think we are in violent agreement but you can't admit it.


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## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

DEKE01 said:


> Oh how about the one that was right above your last comment. Or look at msg 140, there were several there.


How do you propose we end racism? 

Answered previously, I don' think we can.

If the top dog of the KKK is your next door neighbor, how are you gong to stop him from being racist? Are you going to be the thought police and jail him for having an unapproved ideology? Are you going to invite a mob over to camp out on his lawn and harass him every time he comes out of his house?[/quote]

 I don't know if I can. I can make sure that I raise my voice so that people will think about it and maybe change their own minds.



DEKE01 said:


> And while you're busy unsuccessfully forcing him to change, what do you propose your other neighbors do, the ones who are the target of the racism? Should they mope around and bemoan their dire fate because one neighbor hates them because of skin color or religion, or should they take charge of the own lives and live it to the fullest?


They should fight, fight, fight by using our laws and voicing their opinions, just as I am doing.

I said all this before but I will repeat it so you can't say I did not answer your questions.


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## DEKE01 (Jul 17, 2013)

painterswife said:


> How do you propose we end racism?
> 
> Answered previously, I don' think we can.
> 
> If the top dog of the KKK is your next door neighbor, how are you gong to stop him from being racist? Are you going to be the thought police and jail him for having an unapproved ideology? Are you going to invite a mob over to camp out on his lawn and harass him every time he comes out of his house?


 I don't know if I can. I can make sure that I raise my voice so that people will think about it and maybe change their own minds.



They should fight, fight, fight by using our laws and voicing their opinions, just as I am doing.

I said all this before but I will repeat it so you can't say I did not answer your questions.[/QUOTE]

you've contradicted yourself and not answered my Qs. I think you want to argue some more rather than admit we are basically in agreement.


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## DEKE01 (Jul 17, 2013)

painterswife said:


> My premise is that the self improvement has nothing to do with the racism. I believe in self improvement. I don't believe that it should be done to prove a racist wrong. They are already wrong.


do you believe self improvement can overcome the effects of racism? 

It's just one question, maybe you can tackle this one head on.


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## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

DEKE01 said:


> I don't know if I can. I can make sure that I raise my voice so that people will think about it and maybe change their own minds.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


you've contradicted yourself and not answered my Qs. I think you want to argue some more rather than admit we are basically in agreement.[/QUOTE]

Your opinion, not mine.


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## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

DEKE01 said:


> do you believe self improvement can overcome the effects of racism?
> 
> It's just one question, maybe you can tackle this one head on.


No I do not.

Racism is not based on individual behavior but based on the color of their skin.


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## DEKE01 (Jul 17, 2013)

painterswife said:


> No I do not.
> 
> Racism is not based on individual behavior but based on the color of their skin.


OK, just to be clear. 

Pick one:

1. If someone hates you because of your skin color, you are doomed to a life of hardship and nothing you do can change that.

2. If someone hates you because of your skin color, thru your own efforts of self improvement, you have a chance of being a success in life.

I think the reason you are having such a difficult time grasping this is because you are so focused on the racist that you lose sight of the racist victim still having to make something of his life.


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## Oggie (May 29, 2003)

There's a third option:

3. If someone hates you because of your skin color, that person has little or no effect on your life because almost everyone treats the racist as the pariah that he or she is.


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## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

DEKE01 said:


> OK, just to be clear.
> 
> Pick one:
> 
> ...


You got your answers. Don't like them, too bad for you.


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## DEKE01 (Jul 17, 2013)

Oggie said:


> There's a third option:
> 
> 3. If someone hates you because of your skin color, that person has little or no effect on your life because almost everyone treats the racist as the pariah that he or she is.


While I hope it is true, in some areas the general condemnation doesn't happen. However, you are making my point. Outside of work or some similar situation where the racist holds power over you, the racist can hurt you only with your acquiescence. So live your life, do your best, and move on, which was #2.


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## Tex- (May 18, 2014)

Patchouli said:


> The only way to end racism is education and not perpetuating it. It also helps if you aren't living in isolation and only hanging out with people of your own race.


Does this mean that a white person is perpetuating racism if he chooses to mainly associate with other white people? If someone is a white separatist rather than a white supremicist, are they perpetuating racism? If they have a business that is geared mainly toward white people, this is perpetuating racism?

I honestly do not see how anyone choosing to live an isolated life is promoting racism.


Tex


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## notwyse (Feb 16, 2014)

This conversation would be much easier after a good game of shoes. Or a biggest fish contest. We all know there are fools. Persons that let preconceived ideas get the best of them. In this way hatred without cause harms both parties. So keep your eyes open. Think your own thoughts. Walk your own path. We get one life. Live it with grace.


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## JeffreyD (Dec 27, 2006)

notwyse said:


> This conversation would be much easier after a good game of shoes. Or a biggest fish contest. We all know there are fools. Persons that let preconceived ideas get the best of them. In this way hatred without cause harms both parties. So keep your eyes open. Think your own thoughts. Walk your own path. We get one life. Live it with grace.


^^^^^^^^^^

And enjoy it! :happy:


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## DEKE01 (Jul 17, 2013)

painterswife said:


> You got your answers. Don't like them, too bad for you.


LOL - it's been fun seeing the torturous ends you'll go to to not agree with me. I'll stop now.


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## DEKE01 (Jul 17, 2013)

Tex- said:


> Does this mean that a white person is perpetuating racism if he chooses to mainly associate with other white people? If someone is a white separatist rather than a white supremicist, are they perpetuating racism? If they have a business that is geared mainly toward white people, this is perpetuating racism?
> 
> I honestly do not see how anyone choosing to live an isolated life is promoting racism.
> 
> ...


Let's see, a quick Google just revealed that everyone in VT, MT, and ID are white racists because each of those states has a less than 1% black population. :spinsmiley:

wow, that logic made me dizzy.

I do disagree with you a bit that white separatists are probably racists, especially if they are separating for the purpose of being away from a given minority. But if they are just people who like rural, waaaaay off the beaten track life, such as many people in ID, MT, WY, etc, it is not their fault more minorities don't want the same life.


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## Patchouli (Aug 3, 2011)

Tex- said:


> I don't believe there is nearly as much racism as what is being portrayed. We have people promoting racism for personal gain and we have politicians keeping the racial pot stirred in order to keep folks from seeing what they are really up to. Either way, both of these groups are dealing with a populace that obviously isn't smart enough to see through the ruse.
> 
> Why do people keep focusing on the things the hucksters and liars want them to, rather than the things that actually matter? Pavlov's dogs come to mind. At the first mention of racism people start frothing at the mouth.
> 
> ...



I am going to take a wild guess here and say you are white. So you really have no idea from personal experience how much racism there is do you? Let me know the next time you are pulled over by a police officer just because you are white.


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## Patchouli (Aug 3, 2011)

DEKE01 said:


> Let's see, a quick Google just revealed that everyone in VT, MT, and ID are white racists because each of those states has a less than 1% black population. :spinsmiley:
> 
> wow, that logic made me dizzy.
> 
> I do disagree with you a bit that white separatists are probably racists, especially if they are separating for the purpose of being away from a given minority. But if they are just people who like rural, waaaaay off the beaten track life, such as many people in ID, MT, WY, etc, it is not their fault more minorities don't want the same life.


You are aware that Idaho is a hotbed of NeoNazis and white supremacists right?


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## Patchouli (Aug 3, 2011)

JeffreyD said:


> So when those New Black Panthers were intimidating white voters, clearly a voting rights violation, calling to kill white cracker babies, this administration (Holder) did nothing. What message did that send? When students are picked for college based on their skin color and not on their accomplishments, what message does that send?
> 
> My solution is to treat everyone the same, pay no attention to their skin color, pay attention to them! Don't force kids into college based on skin color...it doesn't work. And if you think that racially motivated crimes should be considered hate crimes, enforce the laws equally! This administration has not done this. Why not?


Can't you at least find some new story to trot out, I think the Black Panther one has been pretty well beat to death around here. :bdh:


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## JeffreyD (Dec 27, 2006)

Patchouli said:


> I am going to take a wild guess here and say you are white. So you really have no idea from personal experience how much racism there is do you? Let me know the next time you are pulled over by a police officer just because you are white.


I've been pulled over for being white more times than I can count! I've been told my whole life that I'm a racist.....just because I'm white! I've been attacked by blacks....beaten with a steel pipe..... just because I'm white. I've been attacked by Hispanics...shot and stabbed.....just because I'm white. I think I know a little about racism, and it will never stop.....ever, no matter what anyone does. As long as their are acceptable groups like Naacp, Maldef, LaRaza, and any of the racial caucuses, it won't go away. It's the money behind it, they don't want to loose it and the victimizing they promote keeps bringing it in!


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## JeffreyD (Dec 27, 2006)

Patchouli said:


> Can't you at least find some new story to trot out, I think the Black Panther one has been pretty well beat to death around here. :bdh:


How about answering the posed questions? 
So! It happened and that's a fact. Just because YOU don't like the truth, doesn't mean it will stop being told! Why weren't they prosecuted? Why do you hate hearing about it so much?

You still owe me an apology for accusing me of something that I never did! Well?


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## unregistered358967 (Jul 17, 2013)

DEKE01 said:


> . But if they are just people who like rural, waaaaay off the beaten track life, such as many people in ID, MT, WY, etc, it is not their fault more minorities don't want the same life.



Ooh. I dream of being way out there and prefer the company of animals more than most people. Guess I'm just a human racist.


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## Tex- (May 18, 2014)

Patchouli said:


> I am going to take a wild guess here and say you are white. So you really have no idea from personal experience how much racism there is do you? Let me know the next time you are pulled over by a police officer just because you are white.


Well looky there, someone is making assumptions and judging another person simply because they don't like what someone has to say. It would appear that you are doing the very thing you are preaching against.

Actually, I am white and I have been pulled over simply because I was a white guy. The two officers involved had a habit of practicing a little reverse racism and they later ended up losing their jobs because of it. It didn't stop me from having to spend a night in jail on trumped up charges though. I could have pressed the issues and got out of it, but at the time I was a young guy with very little money and not enough sense to see what my options were.

So yeah, I've been there. Do yourself a favor next time and don't judge people before you learn their story, lest that white guilt turn you into one of _those_ people.

Instead of making ugly and horrid assumptions, why not refute what I said in the post you quoted? 


Tex


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## Tex- (May 18, 2014)

DEKE01 said:


> I do disagree with you a bit that white separatists are probably racists, especially if they are separating for the purpose of being away from a given minority.


Granted, there are racist separatists around, but there are others who simply choose to associate and be around others like themselves. Is that also racist?


Tex


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## Patchouli (Aug 3, 2011)

JeffreyD said:


> How about answering the posed questions?
> So! It happened and that's a fact. Just because YOU don't like the truth, doesn't mean it will stop being told! Why weren't they prosecuted? Why do you hate hearing about it so much?
> 
> You still owe me an apology for accusing me of something that I never did! Well?


I have no idea what you are talking about I don't recall accusing you of anything. And it has nothing to do with not liking the truth it's about being bored because you can't come up with anything original. :yawn:


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## Patchouli (Aug 3, 2011)

Tex- said:


> Well looky there, someone is making assumptions and judging another person simply because they don't like what someone has to say. It would appear that you are doing the very thing you are preaching against.
> 
> Actually, I am white and I have been pulled over simply because I was a white guy. The two officers involved had a habit of practicing a little reverse racism and they later ended up losing their jobs because of it. It didn't stop me from having to spend a night in jail on trumped up charges though. I could have pressed the issues and got out of it, but at the time I was a young guy with very little money and not enough sense to see what my options were.
> 
> ...


Okay so you were pulled over one time. I don't think that compares to the people of color who are stopped routinely in their cars and on the streets all over America. 

As for your post that I quoted do I think some stir the pot to make political hay? Yes of course they do. Just look at that Black Panther story for example that gets trotted out all the time to scare the little old white people. Works like a charm and they send off their checks to the GOP to keep them safe. 

Politics is an ugly business and so is the media these days. And yes they all are working hard to play up our differences and create outrage and hate and anger because it puts money in their coffers. But that does not negate the fact that there is still racism out there and that people suffer discrimination in a lot of ways in this country every day.


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## JeffreyD (Dec 27, 2006)

Patchouli said:


> I have no idea what you are talking about I don't recall accusing you of anything. And it has nothing to do with not liking the truth it's about being bored because you can't come up with anything original. :yawn:


Your post #76. I really think that if the black Panthers intimidation of whites were reversed, you would be having the vapors! A voting rights law was broken, Holder did nothing. What did we learn from that? How about those questions posed to you, or are you going to dodge those too?


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## Patchouli (Aug 3, 2011)

JeffreyD said:


> Your post #76. I really think that if the black Panthers intimidation of whites were reversed, you would be having the vapors! A voting rights law was broken, Holder did nothing. What did we learn from that? How about those questions posed to you, or are you going to dodge those too?


We have already discussed this before at some point. It's not pertinent to the current discussion. 

You want an apology because I called you out for attacking me? I don't see that happening.


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## JeffreyD (Dec 27, 2006)

Patchouli said:


> We have already discussed this before at some point. It's not pertinent to the current discussion.
> 
> You want an apology because I called you out for attacking me? I don't see that happening.


Where did I ever attack you! Simple question! And again, no answers?


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## Tex- (May 18, 2014)

Patchouli said:


> Okay so you were pulled over one time. I don't think that compares to the people of color who are stopped routinely in their cars and on the streets all over America.
> 
> As for your post that I quoted do I think some stir the pot to make political hay? Yes of course they do. Just look at that Black Panther story for example that gets trotted out all the time to scare the little old white people. Works like a charm and they send off their checks to the GOP to keep them safe.
> 
> Politics is an ugly business and so is the media these days. And yes they all are working hard to play up our differences and create outrage and hate and anger because it puts money in their coffers. But that does not negate the fact that there is still racism out there and that people suffer discrimination in a lot of ways in this country every day.


Ma'am, you should really quit making so many sanctimonious assumptions about me. You are really starting to make yourself look foolish. I mentioned one time when I was pulled over simply because that was a specific example that you asked for. At the time of my previous post, I felt no need to mention a couple of scars I got because I looked like an easy mark in a bad part of town. Had you asked, I would have been glad to have told you about the times I was squeezed out of good jobs that I was the most qualified for in order to make room for a few people from the local area. I would have gladly told you about the job I was on where I had to have the morning safety meeting translated into English, all the while knowing the jokes they were saying about me.

Those are just a few examples. You see, besides being involved in agriculture for a very long time, I am also a welder who has traveled all over this country. There are very few regions in this country that I have not worked and very few of those jobs I was on were in the more affluent areas of town. They are usually in the industrial side of town and I have yet to see a town where that area is mostly white. 

I've been in Kansas City where I stuck out like a sore thumb and had people try to jack my vehicle. There has been a couple of pool games where people who don't like to lose would call their buddies over and take advantage over the minority in the room. Let's talk about the guys in Louisiana who would cut in line at the roach coach just because there were more of them and then make jokes about how they showed ------ up.

As far as sending money to the GOP, I'm sure some do, but I never have. The reason for that is because I don't trust them to do the right thing anymore than I do the ones who are always kissing the backsides of supposed victims who have trashed and stepped on the opportunities given them. I do vote though and I vote every time I have the chance. I vote for the people who seem to have some sense and actually give a hoot about protecting freedoms. The type of people I vote for are those who don't buy into the victim mentality. The type of people I vote for are against taking money from working people and giving it to those who have no desire to try and do for themselves. The people I try and vote for have your best interest at heart as well as they do mine. They know that money and entitlements will not solve this nations problems nearly as quick as having self respect and morals. I have yet to see anyone from either of the main parties who hold those values. Granted, my choices very rarely win, but atleast I voted my consience and I can have an honest gripe when I come across someone who feels like enough of my money that I earned hasn't yet been taken.

I will say this again, you really should quit trying to make assumptions about folks you don't know because you are doing yourself and your lackluster arguments no favor at all.


Tex


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## DEKE01 (Jul 17, 2013)

Patchouli said:


> You are aware that Idaho is a hotbed of NeoNazis and white supremacists right?


I've heard it said, don't know if it is true. But the few folks I do know in each of those states are not those sorts at all.


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## DEKE01 (Jul 17, 2013)

Tex- said:


> Granted, there are racist separatists around, but there are others who simply choose to associate and be around others like themselves. Is that also racist?
> 
> 
> Tex


Tex, there is a thin line there somewhere. Like themselves? In what way? Skin color? If that is the only criteria, then there is the implied assumption that people of another skin color are different and that is racist. Why would skin color matter? 

However, if it is an all white group because of another reason, it probably is not racist. My DD is a swimmer. Even though we live in a very integrated neighborhood, virtually no blacks swim on the local teams. The swimmers are mostly white and a few asian. The segregation is because of interests, not because of skin color. 

My guess is that there are few black swimmers because many of the black parents and grandparents were denied the opportunity to enjoy community pools when they were children, so there is no family encouragement.


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## mmoetc (Oct 9, 2012)

DEKE01 said:


> Painter and mmoetc, my premise is not flawed. racism can be a physical violence, denied opportunities, lower pay for equal work, and more. But usually it is not those things. It is often the bad joke, the stupid stereotype, the assumption of guilt, etc. Even more often, it is these days it is the unexpressed thought. So my question remains, when it is just a thought, how do you fight it?


I appear to have read more into your post than you intended. Sorry. The answer, however, is simple. If it is just a thought inside an individual's head there is nothing that can or should be done. I can't read someone else's mind. When those thoughts are transferred into word or deed those actions should be countered.


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## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

mmoetc said:


> I appear to have read more into your post than you intended. Sorry. The answer, however, is simple. If it is just a thought inside an individual's head there is nothing that can or should be done. I can't read someone else's mind. When those thoughts are transferred into word or deed those actions should be countered.


I don't agree. Thoughts need to be countered. Thinking and believing something can become as you say, transferred to word and deed. We teach children over and over that things are wrong before they ever do them. It is up to us to make sure that people no racism is wrong so they rethink their positions and don't pass it on to our children.


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## mmoetc (Oct 9, 2012)

DEKE01 said:


> As I stated earlier, racism in the workplace, where the racist has the power to cause harm, should be fought to the full extent of the law. And you unknowingly endorse my position above. Yes, those people faced prejudice and were denied opportunities, but they succeeded well beyond you or me. By choosing to better themselves as much as possible, instead of focusing on someone who irrationally hates them, they did their part to defeat racism.
> 
> As painter objects to this idea, I can only conclude she is against people doing their best at self improvement.
> 
> This is more than an academic issue for our discussion. There are too many inner city kids who resist education and use victim-hood to say they are denied opportunity. Those kids might see and hear the likes of Sharpton telling them they can't succeed, so they don't try.


And I'll state again, even with all of that hard work and accomplishment they were never treated as equals by large segments of society. There were still doors not opened and paths forward not available. How much more might they have accomplished had some of those barriers not been there? Citing the exceptional only proves that the exceptional will succeed against most odds. It's not the exceptional I worry about.

I don't disagree that telling someone they can't succeed is counterproductive. But holding up the exceptional as examples of what everyone can be when people can look around themselves and see the limits only offers false hope and is equally counterproductive.


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## mmoetc (Oct 9, 2012)

DEKE01 said:


> I don't think there is anyone here arguing otherwise. I thought the issue in contention was how best to deal with that fact.


The issue seems to be as much that racism exists as a natural part of all if us and that nothing can thus be done, or that it is just a figment in many's minds and if you just work harder it will magically disappear as it is about how to deal with it.


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## notwyse (Feb 16, 2014)

Do you guys remember the blue eyes/brown eyes experiments? If not....look them up. I believe all our lives are small...and we grasp at any thing or thought that makes us special. There are several ways to feel big. One is by tearing down those around you. It is easier to feel OK about events that go less than optimal if we can blame them on a race...or a government... Or a religion. The trick is to understand our human condition and not be blinded.


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## mmoetc (Oct 9, 2012)

painterswife said:


> I don't agree. Thoughts need to be countered. Thinking and believing something can become as you say, transferred to word and deed. We teach children over and over that things are wrong before they ever do them. It is up to us to make sure that people no racism is wrong so they rethink their positions and don't pass it on to our children.


I was specific. As long as they remain thoughts trapped inside someone's head there is no way for anyone else to know them. We should all lead by being positive examples which is how we should live our lives regardless if the thoughts of others. We should always speak out against racist words and actions.


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## mmoetc (Oct 9, 2012)

notwyse said:


> Do you guys remember the blue eyes/brown eyes experiments? If not....look them up. I believe all our lives are small...and we grasp at any thing or thought that makes us special. There are several ways to feel big. One is by tearing down those around you. It is easier to feel OK about events that go less than optimal if we can blame them on a race...or a government... Or a religion. The trick is to understand our human condition and not be blinded.


Yes I remember them. Just because we have innate differences and sometimes act on those differences doesn't absolve us of the responsibilty to look beyond those differences and act accordingly. As I've stated before, I was born that way is no excuse to behave badly towards others.


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## Patchouli (Aug 3, 2011)

JeffreyD said:


> Where did I ever attack you! Simple question! And again, no answers?


I owe you an apology. I went back to post #76 and read the quote from you and the response from me and went from there. I confused you with Deke01 who is the person who made the original name calling post. You just defended him. So I was wrong and I apologise.


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## Patchouli (Aug 3, 2011)

Tex- said:


> Ma'am, you should really quit making so many sanctimonious assumptions about me. You are really starting to make yourself look foolish. I mentioned one time when I was pulled over simply because that was a specific example that you asked for. At the time of my previous post, I felt no need to mention a couple of scars I got because I looked like an easy mark in a bad part of town. Had you asked, I would have been glad to have told you about the times I was squeezed out of good jobs that I was the most qualified for in order to make room for a few people from the local area. I would have gladly told you about the job I was on where I had to have the morning safety meeting translated into English, all the while knowing the jokes they were saying about me.
> 
> Those are just a few examples. You see, besides being involved in agriculture for a very long time, I am also a welder who has traveled all over this country. There are very few regions in this country that I have not worked and very few of those jobs I was on were in the more affluent areas of town. They are usually in the industrial side of town and I have yet to see a town where that area is mostly white.
> 
> ...


So I am curious after all of that how can you say you don't believe there is nearly as much racism as what is being portrayed?


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## notwyse (Feb 16, 2014)

I do believe we need to address racism. But except to change my own thoughts I don't know how. We want laws and rules....then get mad because we have laws and rules. I am still burned by how many folks believe it was just the black vote that put President Obama in office. It wasn't. But to watch the news after the election you would of thought so. Any effort to point out injustice is treated like THAT is the sin...not the injustice performed. So. I practice what I preach.


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## Lisa in WA (Oct 11, 2004)

Patchouli said:


> You are aware that Idaho is a hotbed of NeoNazis and white supremacists right?



Just a correction in the interest of keeping racist types from a move looking for their racist nirvana: Idaho is NOT a hotbed of Neonazi and skinhead types and the ones who are here are mostly all from other states, usually California. It was local people who drove out the Aryan Nations in Hayden and locals who laugh the KKK types out of the electoral process.

http://www.splcenter.org/get-informed/hate-map


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## Patchouli (Aug 3, 2011)

LisaInN.Idaho said:


> Just a correction in the interest of keeping racist types from a move looking for their racist nirvana: Idaho is NOT a hotbed of Neonazi and skinhead types and the ones who are here are mostly all from other states, usually California. It was local people who drove out the Aryan Nations in Hayden and locals who laugh the KKK types out of the electoral process.
> 
> http://www.splcenter.org/get-informed/hate-map



Good for them! I was going on past information. Glad to hear they ran them out and it is a good place to live now. Apologies for spreading old rumors.


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## DEKE01 (Jul 17, 2013)

mmoetc said:


> I appear to have read more into your post than you intended. Sorry. The answer, however, is simple. If it is just a thought inside an individual's head there is nothing that can or should be done. I can't read someone else's mind. When those thoughts are transferred into word or deed those actions should be countered.


Amen. And that's why I believe the target of the racist is better off improving himself to the best of his ability and rising beyond the effects of racism. As is often said, the best revenge is living well.


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## DEKE01 (Jul 17, 2013)

mmoetc said:


> And I'll state again, even with all of that hard work and accomplishment they were never treated as equals by large segments of society. There were still doors not opened and paths forward not available. How much more might they have accomplished had some of those barriers not been there? Citing the exceptional only proves that the exceptional will succeed against most odds. It's not the exceptional I worry about.
> 
> I don't disagree that telling someone they can't succeed is counterproductive. But holding up the exceptional as examples of what everyone can be when people can look around themselves and see the limits only offers false hope and is equally counterproductive.


No. most won't rise to the stellar heights. But if I was to cite my neighbors as examples, you wouldn't know who they are. I live in a very middle class neighborhood, that is very integrated. Out of the 5 houses adjacent or across the street (speaking of the parents), only one is all white, one is black/white mixed, one Korean, one all black, one is white/AmerIndian. Every house makes above the national average, every parent is college educated, all the kids go to college that have gotten old enough, not a major trouble maker of all the kids. Self improvement worked for us all.

If I watch Sharpton, it seems these people and this place can't exist, but it is like that over a major portion of northern VA and Southern MD. As an aside, our schools are rated amongst the best in the nation yet go into DC, and the schools spend close to twice the money / pupil and are rated amongst the worst in the nation.


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## DEKE01 (Jul 17, 2013)

mmoetc said:


> The issue seems to be as much that racism exists as a natural part of all if us and that nothing can thus be done, or that it is just a figment in many's minds and if you just work harder it will magically disappear as it is about how to deal with it.


I don't recall anyone saying it was a figment of the imagination. Everyone here has said it exists, IIRC.


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## DEKE01 (Jul 17, 2013)

mmoetc said:


> I was specific. As long as they remain thoughts trapped inside someone's head there is no way for anyone else to know them. We should all lead by being positive examples which is how we should live our lives regardless if the thoughts of others. We should always speak out against racist words and actions.


Agreed. Sure is funny how I can express the same thought and some folks are more interested in not agreeing with me than the idea.


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## JeffreyD (Dec 27, 2006)

Patchouli said:


> I owe you an apology. I went back to post #76 and read the quote from you and the response from me and went from there. I confused you with Deke01 who is the person who made the original name calling post. You just defended him. So I was wrong and I apologise.


Thank you! I didn't feel I was defending as much as was trying to point out that different folks see things differently. I have a tendency to shorten comments because I mostly use my phone and I don't like typing on it, so i may not get the point that I'm trying to make, across in a more concise manner!


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