# Our first calves, and one is very weak all of a sudden.



## kath2003 (Oct 3, 2003)

We brought home two, 6 day old Jersey calves of friday. They were both doing great. Eating, jumping around, seemed fine. They were getting 1/2 cows milk, 1/2 Dumor milk replacer. The cows milk was gone last night, so we mixed half goats milk and half replacer. Not sure if this messed up her stomach or something, but this morning she is very weak. She couldn't even lift her head. When I lifted it for her, it just flopped over. She did get up and drink a bottle when I put the nipple in her mouth. She walked around for a minute or two and went back to lay down.
Now, two hours later, she is breathing kind of heavy, shes very, very, weak, and has a kind of drippy nose. Not snotty, just clear, drippy fluid.
Also, both of them stuck their noses in a bowl of milk last night. We wanted to see if they were willing to drink form a bucket.
Could some fluid have gotten in her lungs or something??
Need some advice quickly please, thank you,


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## susieM (Apr 23, 2006)

Maybe it was the change of milk to goat's milk? How are their poops?


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## kath2003 (Oct 3, 2003)

his are fine, hers are very loose. Also, her temp is 102.8
Is that normal?


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## kath2003 (Oct 3, 2003)

We seperated them, just in case its an infection of some kind.


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## piglady (Sep 28, 2006)

I would give them an antibiotic shot and have some electrolite ready in case they stop eating. If they do get "poopy" as we call it, replace the milk with the electrolite mix for a day to give the digestive system a rest. It's like giving your kid pedilite when they can't eat and have fever.


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## susieM (Apr 23, 2006)

I remember, as a kid, getting a day old dairy calf and buying imitation milk for him...he almost died. The vet said to brown flour and mix it with water and feed it to him.


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## kath2003 (Oct 3, 2003)

ok, quick question, how would I mix the electrolyte pwder that says 1/2 pack to 55 gallons of water. The 1/2 pack would be 4oz. of powder. I sure don't need that much, lol.


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## SHELBY (Mar 9, 2003)

kathy,

In a pinch, you can give them 1/2 tsp of baking soda and 1/2 tsp salt, in 2 qrts water.


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## Skye (Jul 21, 2006)

If she is poopy pepto bismol works wonders.I gave my calves about half a big bottle of the stuff. If it is scours the two most important things to do are keep her hydrated with the electrolytes (I put a little brown sugar in it to make it taste better (don't know if that is what i should have done) after they drank it from a bucket I replaced their water with the solution for a few days.) Second stop the outlet and like I said pepto worked wonders for our calves.


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## kath2003 (Oct 3, 2003)

Boy, she is down again. She is on something called Optimil Complete. Its an all in one medicated calf milk replacer. It has Neomycin, and Oxytetracycline in it. I feed just this twice a day for 2-3 days. She drank down the first bottle. But then didn't want the electrolyte drink. Vet says this stuff has everything in it. I hope hes right! She doesn't look to good.


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## dosthouhavemilk (Oct 29, 2004)

We use a very old thing of Sav-A Calf for a couple of feedings.
Nowadays they are suggesting that you not remove their milk feedings, but rather feed the electolytes in addition to their regular milk feedings but not at the same time.

We had a bull calf about 6 years ago that was incredibly weak. I fed him his Sav-A-Calf (medicated to stop the scours and to keep their fluids) and it would take a half hour to get half a bottle into him. He pulled through and ended up a beautiful big steer that his new owners butchered at less than two years old.
Persistance in making sure he drank it was key. Keeping them hydrated is your biggest goal. It is usually dehydration that calves are lost to. 

"Resorb" is touted as a very good scour stopper and can be found at local farm stores, like TSC.
Your electrolytes will be hard to make into such a small amount. 55 gallons is close to 220 quarts. So 4 ozs for every 220 quarts.....1 ounce for every 55 quarts....so 1/55 of an ounce of electrolyte solution for every quart of water....Assuming my head injury less than an hour ago has not completely screwed up my math in the above calculations...


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## kath2003 (Oct 3, 2003)

Wow, 1/55th of an ounce??? What in the world would that be in my kitchen drawer??, LOL 
Better yet, can to much be bad? 
Thanks so much for the help, she really doesn't look good at all.


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## topside1 (Sep 23, 2005)

Kathy, does the calf have scours??? yellow, white, black, green or red? If so I'm sure I can help or at least try.


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## topside1 (Sep 23, 2005)

Scours is the same as diarrhea. But I'm sure you knew that...


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## topside1 (Sep 23, 2005)

Kathy, if you want some real quick advice about your down heifer then just call me @931-445-3228 and I'd be glad to help....TJ


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## Cheribelle (Jul 23, 2007)

Surely a Jersy calf should have gotten colostrum, but they don't always. I have had a few I tried my darndest spare no expense to save, but if they have had no colostrum or got it too late, they will look fine, then go down. They act like they have no interest in life, and they die soon. It's heartbreaking. I hope a shot of antibiotic will help. My vet has a calf booster shot that has selenium in it, that may help.


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## dosthouhavemilk (Oct 29, 2004)

With the electrolye solution...is it for animals? I've never run into one that requires so little and that most likely isnt' enough to rehydrate that heifer calf of yours.
I mentioned the Resorb because most Tractor Supply Companies are open on Sundays...at least around here, so you could go and pick some up if you have one locally.

Cheribelle,
In the case of these calves they would have received their colostrum and had a good start.



I'm not used to dealing with calves that weren't born here, so with shipping issues, a lot of my informatio won't always correct the issue, but I've dealt with scours (especially at the school farm).


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## Teacupliz (Nov 20, 2003)

Kathy-

Man, she was fine. I am thinking the replacer. are any of your goats in milk? wHAT ABOUT YOUR NEIGHBOR, does she have milk? Is the replacer all milk produces? I am worried-- I am sure you are too. guys she got the twins from me. Friday- they were over a week old and doing so good. Our vet ridge.. says not to stop milk just add electrolites- but if the replacer is not agreeing with her. What do you think to mix it less powder? kathy- the vet told me a fever would be anything over 103.
Did you try baking soda and probotics.

Liz


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## topside1 (Sep 23, 2005)

If the calf has scours it needs to be off dairy products immediately...If it doesn't have scours then I would stop using the replacer and start with store milk if necessary. Do this until the calf is back up and running. Kathy I know your getting confused with all this info...the homemade solution I have been using for year has never let me down. Call if you like, no bother at all....TJ


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## susieM (Apr 23, 2006)

Ummm....if the calf doesn't want to drink....could it be hydrated anally? 

Before y'all laugh at me, I have to tell you that this 'backway' is what sailors do when they are lost at sea and can't drink the saltwater. It also works for when a person can't keep down liquids. And they say it also works to get drunker more quickly if you have a wine or whiskey enema (for the record, I've never tried).


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## dcross (Aug 12, 2005)

Tried drinking out of a bowl for the first time, then breathing heavy with a fever and snotty nose, makes me think pnuemonia.


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## Cheribelle (Jul 23, 2007)

Liz, glad you can rule out that colostrum thing! I get my calves at sale barns usually, and it's a crap shoot. Or else I am trying to save one that someone left too long out in the field.


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## kath2003 (Oct 3, 2003)

Heres where shes at right now, just gave her some more fluids before leaving for work. Hubby is going out at 2:30 to check her and give more fluids.
No fever, foul smelling yellow, watery, scours, still weak, she doesn't want to eat or anything now. I am squirting it down her throat slowly and she is swallowing. Very floppy head. I can only hope for the best during the night and see what happens. Thanks for all the help. TJ, I just might be calling you in the am. Thank you for the offer!!


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## agmantoo (May 23, 2003)

To much of a hit an miss situation. I am not optimistic for a good outcome.


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## Cat (Jun 19, 2004)

With the electrolytes call the customer service number, if they're good they'll have the smaller mixing rates figured out for you (via sticky on the phone!). They vary between brands. The one I bought last was a teaspoon per 5 gallons of water.


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## Gin64 (May 16, 2007)

Why are you mixing milk replacer with goats milk? Some milk replacers are rich and then add that to goats milk which is rich could be the problem. I would either use milk replacer and make sure it is whole milk and not soy base. Or the goats milk. You will probably have to tube her to get the fluid into her. At this point if she lives she needs just straight electrolytes and the pepto bismal. Leave the milk out until she is stronger. Good luck hope everything turns out well for you and your little lady.


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## topside1 (Sep 23, 2005)

"No fever, foul smelling yellow, watery, scours, still weak, she doesn't want to eat or anything now. I am squirting it down her throat slowly and she is swallowing. Very floppy head. I can only hope for the best during the night and see what happens. Thanks for all the help. TJ, I just might be calling you in the am. Thank you for the offer!!"

Now that I know she has scours, STOP with any type milk product...If you don't the scours will never clear up. Review Agman's #24 post, call me if you want, you can learn quite a bit in a short time on the phone. No trouble at all, but make it soon or this may not be a happy ending.


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## kath2003 (Oct 3, 2003)

Good morning, 
Not to brag but, not bad for a beginner!!! She is up and eating : ) 
She got fluids all through the night by squirting it down her throat slowly, kept her warm, put her brother back in with her, and this morning when I got home from work, she met me at the fence!! I gave her just half of her normal feeding for now, of the Optimil Complete, and will feed her a few more times during the day. Don't want to overload her to soon. 

The bull is right back to her butt and got a face full of mushy stool this morning. Thought I was gonna die, wow, gross. 

Thank you all very much for all the advice! This group is awesome for beginners. I will check in later with an update. 
Thanks again 

Oh, the reason for the goats milk and replacer was to ease them over to all replacer. I didn't have alot of goats milk for them and thought it would be easier on their stomachs.


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## topside1 (Sep 23, 2005)

Good job Kathy, keep us updated...Later next week how about a snapshot...TJ


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## kath2003 (Oct 3, 2003)

Ok, heres where were at today. The calves have been off milk for two full days. Just electroyltes and raw eggs. They love it by the way, lol. Now, they are both over the scours, so how do I go about getting them back on the milk without messing up their guts ?
On another cattle forum, I was just told, they should have NEVER been off milk. They are starving to death as we speak. Man, so much info for us newbies, how do ya know??


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## mamahen (May 11, 2002)

You probably don't have enough goats milk for both of them?

We had really good luck with 2 different milk replacers. Land O Lakes for calves (make sure milk or whey is the first ingredient in ANY replacer and not soy) and Blue Ribbon Family Milk Replacers Ultra (this one has NO soy!). This last one is the one we used on our current heifer, and we were very happy with it. No problems whatsoever. Tractor Supply carries the Blue Ribbon.

Land O Lakes also makes one specfically for Jersey calves.

Back to your question. Give them half a bottle of the milk replacer, or goats milk, but I wouldn't do both, unless you're really diluting the formula. Were you mixing half a serving before to half goat's milk? That would probably be ok. Too weak of formula would be better than too rich, right now. After half a bottle of milk, you could give half of the electrolytes.

You could keep the raw egg in the formula, too. A lot do that around here.


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## topside1 (Sep 23, 2005)

Try feeding them three times a day if possible. Obviously the same amount but divide it into three feedings instead of two. A calf being cow raised drinks lots of milk but in small servings. Get these calves to the three week mark and you should be in the clear.....By the way how much milk replacer are you feeding these Jerseys per feeding?


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## kath2003 (Oct 3, 2003)

The goats milk was just because someone gave some to me the day we got them. I never even used much of it because they got sick. So it is gone. They are on a milk based replacer, no soy! That I got loud and clear the first day from everyone, lol.
Ok, so I will start with a 1/2 bottle of replacer and an egg. Thanks so much, I'll go give it to them right now. Then maybe another 1/2 bottle before work tonight at 10pm? or is that to soon?


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## Teacupliz (Nov 20, 2003)

kathy who told you to take them off milk? I would get them on raw milk as soon as you can. If they can not have the replacer? I was told by vet to never take off milk just add a electrolite bottle mid-day. Treat the scour- Biosol and or sulmet.
what is going on have not heard from you thought they were well- Liz


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## dosthouhavemilk (Oct 29, 2004)

Jerseys should get only about 2/3rds to 3/4ths the amount of powder it suggests you feed Holstein calves for the first few weeks. Especially after a case of scours.

My sugeestion would be to start with 1/2 of the amount of the milk replacer and gradually increase it with each feeding. The key is to keep an eye on the consistancy of their manure. If it loosens stop adding more and drop back just a smidge.
The amount of liquids should always be the same, with the powder being a bit different.

We use the Land O' Lakes and I have experience with the Cow's Match Jersey Match.


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## kath2003 (Oct 3, 2003)

They are getting 2 pints, twice a day. Thats what they were getting when we picked them up at 1 week old, they are now 2 weeks yesterday. Should it be more now?


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## topside1 (Sep 23, 2005)

I feed 2 pints three time a day. 0700-1200-500pm. This equals the recommended amount for Jerseys (3pints per feeding twice a day). Don't worry you and the calves will be just fine. Just think next time you'll be giving others advice....


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## topside1 (Sep 23, 2005)

Some local raisers only feed 2 pints twice a day....However they add two raw eggs to each bottle.


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## dosthouhavemilk (Oct 29, 2004)

Our calves get two quarts of liquid twice a day while on the bottle. When transitioned to the bucket (about two weeks old) they get a total of 6 pounds (3 quarts) of liquid twice a day with about 10 ounces of milk replacer.
When we feed raw milk, they get about 2 1/2 pounds of milk (pints a pound the world round) and the remaining 3 1/2 pounds is water twice a day. Bigger calves get 3 pounds of milk and 3 of water.
These numbers were brought about through trial and error by my grandmother who raised calves her entire life....well...until she was forced to retire from farming at 80 by my father...lol
We don'
t use eggs in any of our feedings, but we also don't have to deal with stressors like moving and such since they are born and raised here.


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## kath2003 (Oct 3, 2003)

When you say transition to the bucket, you mean without the nipples on it right? They drink right out of the bucket? I would much rather feed them like that, lol.


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## Cat (Jun 19, 2004)

I'd ease back into the milk, a pint for a few feedings, then two, etc. 

I've gotten harassed about that too: "I'd never not feed milk - they'll starve!" Well, I'll tell you, although my experience is with sheep, I've never had one croak from starvation but I've had several die from the scours UNTIL I began taking them off milk until they're rehydrated. It's a known fact creatures will die from dehydration much sooner than they'll die from starvation.


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## Teacupliz (Nov 20, 2003)

LOL we are all full of advice- how is a gal to know.. wink... Glad we all care..
Liz


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## Teacupliz (Nov 20, 2003)

I bought 8 spring heifers and got all bull calves looking around to see if I can find a few calves to help my herd grow-
Western NY- can travel for the right prices and calves.. any ideas
let me know
thanks Liz
[email protected]


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## kath2003 (Oct 3, 2003)

:shrug: Everyones advice is great, I just get a little overwelmed at times deciding which to do. So far though, they are up and around, kicking and bouncing, so I don't think I starved them, lol. I'll just go slowly and keep asking all you guys for help, lol. Thanks again!


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## francismilker (Jan 12, 2006)

Hate to get in on this one so late. But I agree with DostThouHaveMilk. Jersey calves don't require the recommended amounts for holstein calves and I've scoured calves in the past by trying to give them too much. Once they start getting some age and size on them, you can gradually increase their intake. When I see a calf with scours, I use two feedings of "resorb" and give them a bottle of pepto. Then I start mixing milk in with the electrolytes a little at a time (over three days) until they're back on full strength milk. I try to avoid using antibiotics or penicillan (unless pneumonia symptomes are present),as this can kill the "good" bacteria in an animals stomach that it takes to digest food intake.


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## kath2003 (Oct 3, 2003)

hey Liz,
try this number, it is in our Pennysaver this week, 585-682-3036. says calves, don't know anything about them or the people.


Teacupliz said:


> I bought 8 spring heifers and got all bull calves looking around to see if I can find a few calves to help my herd grow-
> Western NY- can travel for the right prices and calves.. any ideas
> let me know
> thanks Liz
> [email protected]


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## topside1 (Sep 23, 2005)

Kathy how are your calves? How about some photos?


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## kath2003 (Oct 3, 2003)

Morning, They are doing very well. The little bull is pretty darn strong for a little thing, lol. My DH says they need to fatten up, he thiks they are to thin. I'll get some pictures later today, its pouring right now, and try to get them up. 
Thanks for asking about the calves


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## mtman (Sep 2, 2004)

dont worry about them being to thin 
when you are dealing with calfs that young without ther momma its better to have them a little hungry then to have them to full


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## kath2003 (Oct 3, 2003)

Thanks mtman, I'm hoping then that way they will be more interested in the hay, and pellets. They smell it, and I thought they were kind of nibbling, but I don't know, lol. They are funny


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## kath2003 (Oct 3, 2003)

Just a quick update on my calves. They are both being weaned now, they love the pellets and the hay! They are drinking water like a pro. We finished the last bag of MR and hoping to not buy anymore. They are a little loud, but seem to be eating well. I added them to my website if anyone wants to see them. Thanks for all the help.


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## topside1 (Sep 23, 2005)

kathy I visited your site, looks like two healthy Jersey calves living in luxuray...nice job and thanks for the update. When you read a book you usually like the hear about the ending...TJ


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## agmantoo (May 23, 2003)

I agree with your husband that the calves are on the thin side. The calf in the lower picture on your site is on the verge of being stressed to the point where it cannot rebound.


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## JulieLou42 (Mar 28, 2005)

For an idea of what they can look like, this steer was 45 days old when the picture was shot. He nursed his mother and had grass or hay to eat. He was gaining more than 3# per day at this time...he jumped that rigged up calf corral twice that afternoon, so we never put him in there again. He's dinner fare now, since May 22nd, when he was 750#...


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## Teacupliz (Nov 20, 2003)

do not owrry once they stat eating more grain and hay they will fatten up-
What grain are you using- Rhienharts have a great calf zip-Liz


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## kath2003 (Oct 3, 2003)

Thanks John, they seem comfy, lol. They are on Producers Pride from TSC and sweet feed combined. Wow, those pictures need to be updated, they are no wheres near that small right now! They will be 7 weeks on Sat. and those pictures are from around 4 weeks.


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## topside1 (Sep 23, 2005)

Keep up the good work, I'm raising two bottle calves right now myself. Show off some more pictures whenever you can.....TJ


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## kath2003 (Oct 3, 2003)

I've added a new picture to my website of my calves. This picture is about a week and a half ago. They are doing great! They are out in the grass pen now: ) Very happy!!


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## topside1 (Sep 23, 2005)

Kathy, that picture is more like it....good looking healthy stock...great job.


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## kath2003 (Oct 3, 2003)

Thank you John. Now, to just not get to attached, lol. We named then T-bone, and Porterhouse as a reminder!!


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## topside1 (Sep 23, 2005)

Kathy by the time they hit 800 pounds you won't have a problem making room in the freezer. Everything is cute when their small, see below.


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## kath2003 (Oct 3, 2003)

oh my gosh, they are just beautiful!! So shiney and pretty, lol. Wow, that would be hard.


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## topside1 (Sep 23, 2005)

Their both dairy heifers, so they will be seeing the milking line before they ever see a freezer....They are my two latest projects.


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