# Need reasurance, will it get better? Pyr pup and male kid goats



## CAjerseychick (Aug 11, 2013)

Sooo I know about the adolescent stage in dogs (our Berner was a bit of a terror but he never had livestock issues, at this point he is a much better LGD than our other 2, just Zero prey drive and barks like heck)...
Our 6month old (he turns 6months on Thanksgiving Day actually).... Pyr/anatolian (3/4, 1/4) pup is obsessed with our male goats-- I noticed this a couple weeks ago I would come home and find the other goats grazing and the little stunted wether alone in a bush with the Pyr pup nuzzling his behind...
Now since we got a (now) 9week old ND buckling baby, the poor things is having a really hard transition, does not stay with the herd and has this dog-enticing high pitched frantic bleating that he does, and then he runs, and puppy is obsessed with chasing him (no biting, and the little thing is pretty wild and good at hiding in places, he quickly holes up somewhere like behind the gas meter box next to the house)-- and licking him-- I have found Goatbaby covered with saliva....
I think its the Buck hormones, coupled with Pup's budding adolescence (hormones)....
Its been a week, and now we have to keep Pup on a tie out...
Just wondering if people have thoughts, ideas, suggestions....
When will he get better (Pup)?...
he was born in a goat pen and his parents are working LGDs....but he is more of a family farm dog then true-only -with - the goats LGD. He was about 4months when we first got the goats... and we had the chickens when we brought him home at 8 weeks, he never was this problematic with them (he has never touched a chicken and ignores them at this point and backs off from the Roo, he likes to snack on chicken feed as well, but the Roo runs him off)....


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## redgate (Sep 18, 2008)

It sounds totally normal. In fact, since you said you found the little ND covered in slobber seems to me a good thing--the pup was "taking care of him" in his own way, rather than trying to eat him. Most likely, the buckling's cries trigger a protective response in the dog. I believe the best way to deal is to build a second pen. Depending on your set up, ideally, you would put the pup in with a fairly dominant doe, as she will keep the pup in his place. Put the bucklings and unprotected kids in the other pen so the dog will leave them alone. If you lack that, you need to keep the pup separate from the goats by putting him in the other pen, unless you are there to supervise. In either case, the pen should be right beside the goats (in the goat pen ideally), so the pup can still see, hear, and somewhat interact with them, just not annoy them to death. It is a phase that will be outgrown. My pup went through a kid chasing phase around 7 months old. I had a dominant doe that kept her in her place, but she still managed to leave a tooth mark on a kids tail as she attempted to grab the tail during the chase. She also managed to play with a couple of chickens until they gave up and died. But, I knew it was all puppy-phase, and I just made changes to our set up as needed. Otherwise, she never harmed a soul. Realize that these guys don't mature until at least age 2, though they calm down significantly around 12-18 months (sometimes a little longer for an intact male). It will happen, and you will LOVE that dog. Ours have become the best farm partners we could ever ask for--far more than we ever expected of them. Just hang in there, expose him to the animals when you are there to supervise, and he will get there.


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## CAjerseychick (Aug 11, 2013)

Ok thanks alot, that is really reassuring... the only pen we have is the chicken yard - the goats are in it now (sheets of rain right now) it partially overhung by our back porch, and the dogs like to lie on the far side next to the fence and stare at the goats I thought it was a predatory thing....
Our "herd queen" is a fairly shy and non dominant goat we were practically given from a dairy as she was bottom of the pecking order and not getting enough to eat..
Our little wether is the best he will just stand there and let the dog nuzzle on him, and does not know to run... For now I will keep supervising.....
And you are right, I thought I would lose my mind with the Bernese Mt dog adolescence (he would jump into my car if I left my window down and absolutely chew up the inside of the car and steal what I left in it).... and now he has settled down and is one of the best dogs, ever, maybe too barky at the fenceline is his only fault, but he is doing his job... I will hang in there with Pyr pup.... 
THX you guys...


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## motdaugrnds (Jul 3, 2002)

Wishing I could help you out here; but I'm not seeing what you've described in my LGD; and she has pretty much entered the adolescent stage. I have noticed she has a great deal more energy of late; but I contributed that to her being in heat. She is also playing more with the goats AND chickens; however, her manner of play is not one of contact. Don't know if it is just the difference in our breeds or if maybe Valentina has just not come to the adolescent phase yours has. Will certainly be watching!

I will tell you what I am believing is most important at this stage of an LGD's development. That is their ability to think for themselves and become confident in their decision-making abilities. I know this is probably a difficult thing for them to do...It certainly is for us humans. What I'm doing now is a bit different from what I did when she was younger. While younger, I wanted her to be (and feel) safe as she "explored" and "learned what the rules are". At this stage, I want Valentina to become confident in herself. Thus, I'm permitting her to be slower in her responses to my commands. I'm praising her a lot when I see her doing something I have not told her to do that could even remotely be viewed as helpful around the place. (I do not have baby goats or even new goats; so I'm not having to contend with what you are CA; and I'm sure, if I did, I might well be worn out trying to contain the situation.) 

Redgate has some great suggestions. I do think your LGD needs to be well contained so she doesn't get the idea what she was doing is ok. I think, were I in your situation, I would add one thing to Redgate's ideas. That would be a rather long leash on the dog you're working with whenever that dog is out and around whatever it has been pestering. That long leash could be a helpful hint as to what is not ok.


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## CAjerseychick (Aug 11, 2013)

Thx MD.... he has not killed anything or even ever bitten (my giant schnauzer snapped at my special ed wether (I really do think he is behind, mentally) when they both reached the chicken scrap bowl at the same time.... so she got a reprimand and locked in the car for a TO...
He totally ignores the chickens and steps back from them if they insist.... 
Its the bleating and the smell of the new buckling (I am noticing that LGDs have a hard time accepting new animals?).... But since there is usu someone home we leash him upon infraction and actually DH has been putting him on a tie out most of the day-- it will be easier when baby buck learns to stay with the herd.... if we take dog outa the pic its alittle easier for him to stay out with his ladies (the buckling that is)....


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## motdaugrnds (Jul 3, 2002)

CA If you're careful with how you do it, you could encourage that bonding. Seems to me your little buckling could use a friend. (I've had my German Shepherd cuddling newborns!)


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