# Primitive or Modern



## Guest (Sep 27, 2006)

Just curious, who all likes to use recurves and the ole smoke pole? Who all likes the fancy compounds and inline rifles?

I was using compounds and inlines. It just got to where it seemed too easy to put meat on the table. The last few years I have been hunting with recurves and the older fashioned muzzleloaders. I'm still harvesting with the ole smoke pole but since I switched back to the recurve it seems I just haven't really got to hunt a lot with it. I have yet to even take a shot at a deer. Hopefully this year!


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## MELOC (Sep 26, 2005)

i guess i am anti-inline. i think the whole concept is a marketing ploy. muzzleloader season should be for primitive muzzleloaders only.


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## boonieman (Dec 28, 2005)

I have a compound, but I really miss my old recurve. It seemed more like real bowhunting. I also agree with MELOC that the modern day inline muzzleloaders doesn't fit with the original concept of a muzzeloading season. However, the deer population being what it is today, it tempers my feelings about it somewhat. Myself, during gun season I use a single action Ruger Super Blackhawk .44 Mag.


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## big rockpile (Feb 24, 2003)

We have a 4 month Deer Season,all the Deer you want.Two Months are Firearms.I take whatever I think about.I'm wanting to try out a New Sidelock that I haven't killed a Deer with,but not sure if I'll use it or not.

Wife says only 3 Deer and 2 Hogs this year.

big rockpile


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## beowoulf90 (Jan 13, 2004)

Count me on the primitive side! To me and this is just my humble opinion, If I'm going to use an in-line muzzleloader then I might as well carry a modern centerfire rifle. I guess I just prefer the primitive style of things. LOL I'm even learning to do blacksmith on an old coal forge..


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## jross (Sep 3, 2006)

As long as we kill the animal quickly, I don't care much who uses what. I use a compound and a 20 ga slug gun. No matter what we use, hunting is not sport, but an excersize in predation. Whether primitive or modern, one must get the quarry into the effective range of the weapon used, and that is the skill required, not which weapon is used. Wound with a primitive weapon, one better have good tracking skills and patience. Wound with a modern weapon, one had better be able to get off that following shot effectively, or one had better be a skilled tracker and have patience. The anti- hunters just love it when we argue amongst ourselves.


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## bgak47 (Sep 4, 2003)

I enjoy using primitive firearms, but I aggree that hunting is for harvesting meat, & a quick,clean kill is the desireable outcome. However, I still view hunting as a sport, & primitive firearms makes it more appealing to me. During centerfife rifle season I hunt with a replica 1873 springfield 45/70 with hand-loaded black powder cartridges. I've never had to track a wounded deer or hog for more than 60yds. I believe that the large caliber lead bullets that I use in my rifles are excellent for 1 shot kills on deer & hogs at the short, to moderate ranges in the brushy area where I hunt. If I hunted where 200-300yd shots were common I'd adjust my firearms use accordingly.


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## Haggis (Mar 11, 2004)

I would not receive an in-line as a gift from a loved one, and though I did once receive a compound bow as a gift from a friend, I have never fired an arrow from it in the decade it has resided in my custody.

I shoot modern firearms as they are honest in being what they are, but pretend muzzleloaders and pretend bows just weird me out.

Archery ought to involve "two sticks and a string" anything more is superfluous, or downright cheating the sport.

Muzzleloaders ought to be affected by the weather and poorly knapped flints; stainless steel barrels, plastic stocks, sealed ignitions and saboted copper clad bullets are not from the muzzleloaders era; again, it just cheats the sport.


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## bgak47 (Sep 4, 2003)

Haggis...I'm not sure what you mean by ''pretend muzzleloaders''? Are you talking about ''inline'' muzzleloaders or replica flintlocks & caplocks? I've never done bowhunting, but ''primitive'' would seem to me to exclude compound & modern crossbows.


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## swamp man (Dec 25, 2005)

IMO,a clean kill is a good kill,but I'd have to agree that classifying modern in-line muzzle leaders and compound bows as"primitive weapons"is a bit of a stretch..


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## Haggis (Mar 11, 2004)

bgak47 said:


> Haggis...I'm not sure what you mean by ''pretend muzzleloaders''? Are you talking about ''inline'' muzzleloaders or replica flintlocks & caplocks? I've never done bowhunting, but ''primitive'' would seem to me to exclude compound & modern crossbows.


"Replica" muzzleloaders do "in spirit" allow the shooter to recreate the experiences of our forefathers, "in-line" type weapons allow folks who could care less about the traditional experience to capitalize on seasons created for the afore mentioned primitive style shooters, but without the bother of acquiring the skills involved in successfully shooting the traditional style weapons. Much the same as compound bows allow anyone to walk in off the street, buy a bow, buy a hand held release, set the sights, and be hunting that very evening. Recurves and longbows shot as bare bows with wooden arrows, take years to master, and most folks never become proficient enough to actually hunt with them.

Don't get me wrong, I think all sides of the issue ought to be able to hunt with their own choice of weapons, but there is no comparison between primitive style firearms, and modern in-line firearms, just as there is no comparison between traditional archery and the usage of compound bow equipment. Back in the '60's and early '70's when all the big stir started in the hunting woods over the compound and aluminium arrows, I was one of the greatest supporters of compound users; I didn't want a "bicycle bow" or a "come-along" bow, but I did want their voices speaking up for more liberal seasons, and I did want their license monies helping our sports. I still do, but I want no part of that aberration in my little corner of either sport.


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## bgak47 (Sep 4, 2003)

Good post Haggis! It's a good thing that we have enough whitetail deer to accomodate all types of hunters for controlled seasons! When I was a youngster 50yrs ago,that wasn't the case & it was because previous generations had over-hunted the available game.


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## jross (Sep 3, 2006)

swamp man said:


> IMO,a clean kill is a good kill,but I'd have to agree that classifying modern in-line muzzle leaders and compound bows as"primitive weapons"is a bit of a stretch..



You are right. Let's call them single shot weapons. Even then, with speed loaders, the second shot is not far off. I use a compound, because at my advanced years, I can hold longer than with a recurve, and I used to be an outstanding instinctive shooter. Not any more. One still has to get one's self in the right position in order to have something to shoot at, no matter what one uses..


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## MELOC (Sep 26, 2005)

bgak47 said:


> Good post Haggis! It's a good thing that we have enough whitetail deer to accomodate all types of hunters for controlled seasons! When I was a youngster 50yrs ago,that wasn't the case & it was because previous generations had over-hunted the available game.



at the risk of thread drift, do you remember the american chestnut and it's demise? those trees produced nuts every year and composed about 50% of nut bearing trees, if not 50% of all trees, in the forests they grew in. when they died out, the were naturally replaced with oak trees. my understanding is that many oaks do not fruit every year, but fruit every other year. this would mean there is much less food available to deer in the form of nuts.

do you think this may have had an impact on deer populations when you were younger?


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## MELOC (Sep 26, 2005)

i guess i am a bit more liberal when it comes to archery. the way deer can dilly dally around when you are waiting for a shot, it could be very hard for many folks with a straight bow. i had a hard time with the full draw weight as a teen. i used one for about three years but i never had much luck. in my defense, archery was something i picked up on my own and it took quite some time to learn without a mentor. 

when i switched to a compound, i still used my fingers to release and i was pretty good with that technique. it took a lot of convincing from a buddy to get me to use a release. i once had a peep sight installed in my compound when i had it restrung and the guy thought i was crazy when i told him to mount it so it was like i was using a release. i did not rotate the string with the compound when i shot it with my fingers. i would pull it straight back and release it clean.


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## Haggis (Mar 11, 2004)

"They say, 'God made all men, and Colonel Colt made 'em equal, more or less.'"
What Matthew Quigly was referring to was the ability of the weakest man among men to pick up a Colt pistol and challenge the most powerful of all men. Many traditional archers _want_ to pull the wieght of their longbow, or recurve, though usually they will let the arrow fly the instant their fingers touch their anchor point; the "instinctive" moment being lost if the arrow is held in place, at full draw, for the slightest length of time. The compound bow steals from the archer the mastery of the bow and removes the need for strength once required by traditional bows; instantly replacing by mechanical means the strength and skills once requiring a lifetime of constant practice before the butt.

Fortunately for hunters, a 30# pull traditional bow has the ability to shoot an arrow completely through both sides of a whitetailed deer at realistic archery distances.


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## tuvold (Jun 26, 2006)

Hey,

My last bow was a Bear Kodiak Magnum. My last firearm was a T/C Hawken in the flintlock variety.

My 2 coppers,

tuvold


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## elkhound (May 30, 2006)

i love all of them.anything to get out in the woods.there are so many der now it dont matter to me if a person uses a sidelock or in-line.the county next to me now has a 4 week rifle season and can kill does evry day for the last several years.they havent made a dent in the deer.alot of people that hunt just dont kill deer to eat...looking for horns.i think alot of deer hunters now a days just spend more time in woods than they do killing deer.does this make sense.?


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## Guest (Sep 29, 2006)

Well personally in my opinion of the deer population here in Oklahoma, I think we could have a seperate season and seperat tag for each weapon, with some overlapping each other as they do now. We are allowed a total of 6 deer per person per year. 

If I was the owner of several hundred acres of forrest land. I would only allow actual primitive weapons(recurves and flintlocks) the first month of deer season. After that the inlines, compounds, and modern rifle people could do their thing.


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## bgak47 (Sep 4, 2003)

r.h. I think that our deer seasons here in OK need to be extended slightly & moved to later times in the season.I'd like to see the muzzleloading & gun seasons begin a couple of weeks later because of our generally warmer temps that we see in Nov & Dec.I'd also be in favor of a slightly more generous limit on anterless deer. We have a LOT of smaller whitetails.I'm not a conservation expert, but I think that we have a lot too many does & not enough mature bucks. Too much Trophy hunting,IMO.


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## Ed Norman (Jun 8, 2002)

r.h. in okla. said:


> If I was the owner of several hundred acres of forrest land. I would only allow actual primitive weapons(recurves and flintlocks) the first month of deer season. After that the inlines, compounds, and modern rifle people could do their thing.


What, I can't use my longbows? Discrimination! But I'll bring my 54 flinchlock. Tell me when you get the land bought.


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## swamp man (Dec 25, 2005)

bgak47 said:


> r.h. I think that our deer seasons here in OK need to be extended slightly & moved to later times in the season.I'd like to see the muzzleloading & gun seasons begin a couple of weeks later because of our generally warmer temps that we see in Nov & Dec.I'd also be in favor of a slightly more generous limit on anterless deer. We have a LOT of smaller whitetails.I'm not a conservation expert, but I think that we have a lot too many does & not enough mature bucks. Too much Trophy hunting,IMO.


We have the same situation here.Too many doe and not enough mature bucks,that is.I think the "four points or better"rule is ridiculous.I'd like to see it go to six,and eight would be better.This aint complicated stuff,really.The state wildlife management experts know better,but unfortunately,the trophy hunters must be appeased to keep the funding intact.
Management experts can argue 3:1 vs 2:1 vs 1:1 for an ideal doe to buck ratio,but when you're looking at 10:1,or in some areas,15:1,there is a definite problem.
There's a brute of a 10 pointer that beds in the youpoun thicket on the back of my acreage,and I've let him walk from my blind three years running.I hunt for food,not bragging rights,and I prefer a doe in the freezer,anyway.


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## tallpaul (Sep 5, 2004)

I like em all.... own them all and shoot them all. I tend to use my inline during regular season and my crossboy during bow. I have a great recurve I need more time with that I want to use someday and a modified caplock bobcat with a 16 inch barrell I want to use if I go this year during ML season. I started witht the traditional caplocks and went to a tc inline when they first made one- the thunderhawk and its killed anything I ever shot at using a cap for ignition. I love my TC renegade and lyman GPR flinter too... I guess I am just sick


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## MELOC (Sep 26, 2005)

pa started a 3 point on one side (4 on one side in a few areas) a couple years ago. lots of folks hated that with a passion. luckily, to make sure folks had a better chance at getting meat, they began to run buck and doe seasons together. it used to be that doe season was seperate and followed buck season. weather was usually terrible that week for some freaky reason. i got skunked on more than one 3 day doe season.

even though many folks do not follow the rules, enough do so that i think the trophy size of deer is improving. this year should be the year to see the full fruits of that program. look at the reports from pa this year and i am sure you will see many huge bucks being harvested. i normally hate most every decision the DNR makes, but the antler restriction will pay off with nicer bucks i am sure.


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## Guest (Sep 30, 2006)

I would have to agree with some of you. I too think we have too many does and I believe we need to let the young bucks mature more before harvesting.(6 points or more) Here in Oklahoma they are wanting us to take more does but they are not making it easier on the pocket book. If they want more does taken they should decrease the price of the tags for does, or allow an extra bonus doe tag when you take the first doe. With the price of the tags costing the same, most people that I know would rather take a buck because you get more meat for your dollar. 

Sorry Ed, didn't mean to exclude the longbows and crossbows and pistolie's.


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