# Assembling hive questions



## Cheryl aka JM (Aug 7, 2007)

I bought two hives yesterday and now I'm trying to put them together. I was stupid when I boght them and let the man selling them gather it all up without explaining to me and then part of it got loaded in my van while I paid for it all. I ASSUMED instructions and an itemized receipt were in the things going to my van....they were not. You know what happens when you ASSUME something? You get a hefty credit card bill and NO wire or eyelets. My friend tells me those are not standard....but the instructions Ive been able to find online and in the book "Honeybees and beekeeping" seems to suggest they are expected to be used which would seem to make them "standard"

And of course I didn't notice when it was all going out to my van that the bottom boards are solid peices of plastic...and what I'm seeing online is suggesting I really needed to have a wire bottom board? Should I try to return the bottom boards? Should I have gotten wire and metal eyelets with my "Hive kits" or should I try to buy them somewhere else? Do I not need wire and eyelets?


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## Cheryl aka JM (Aug 7, 2007)

I might be starting to understand that since the wax foundation I was sold has wire in it already running vertical that if I then run wire also horizontal as a lot of the videos I am finding suggest then the bees will be unhappy with all that wire and leave holes in the framework? Am I understanding correctly?


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## Cheryl aka JM (Aug 7, 2007)

I'm trying to make sure I understand just what I'm doing before I get out the glue and the nails...so along with the questions of wiring...I've noted that each end bar has one square side and one v-shaped side. The only reference I can find to this is an instruction that if the end bars have a v-shaped edge they "should be assembled so that the v is facing you on the left end and away from you on the right end"

I've looked and looked and I can't find any reason WHY. Mostly searches turn up information on Top Bar Hives but these are langstroth hives I am assembling (eventually that is!) I am guessing.....the v-shaped edge is the reduce the strength of the bee's ability to glue the peices together? Or is there another reason for it?

BTW~ thanks so much for answering the copper question in the other thread already!


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## kycountry (Jan 26, 2012)

I'm kinda new too, but the reason I have found to turn the v shape to point to the different sides allows you to put the frames in either direction. Meaning there is no front or back to the frame. and yes, it's so they cannot glue the frames in as tight.


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## indypartridge (Oct 26, 2004)

You (and kycountry) are correct, the reason for the "v" is to limit how tightly the bees can glue together the frames, and by having the "v" point opposite of each other on each frame, there is no "front" or "back".

I've never used the metal eyelets or wired frames.


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## BarbadosSheep (Jun 27, 2011)

From what I understand, if you use foundation that has wire, you don't need to mess with wiring the frames. Wiring the frames is only necessarily if you don't use wired foundation.


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## BarbadosSheep (Jun 27, 2011)

On your other question about bottom boards.....yes I'd return the solid ones and get the screen bottom boards. Studies have shown that having the screens reduce mite populations by up to 25%. They also improve air circulation and humidity in the hive.


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## DanielY (Aug 25, 2011)

Cheryl, My first suggestion is that you do a lot more homework. Of course I would have suggested you do that long before you bought any equipment. My first concern is the chance you actually bought the equipment you would want if you knew more. As for the question haw does it all go together. That depends on what you bought.

This is a good source for videos on how to in beekeeping. Assemble the frames so that one beveled edge is against a non beveled edge on your frames. the bevel is meant to make it easier to get a hive tool in and pry frames apart.

Weather you need eyelets or not depend on if you are going to use foundation wire or not some people use wireless foundation and plastic pens fit where the eyelets would be. Also as you have found out not all wired foundation even needs eyelets.

Did you choose shallow, med or deep frames. Did you choose one size for brood box and another for honey supers? What is the foundation cell size. will it match the size of the bees you are going to order? This not a critical issue but I would not want to place natural bees on foundation with 4.9 cells in it. they may not take to it very well. Have you looked at natural comb vs foundation at all? Are you planning on producing comb honey at all? if so then you don't want foundation at all much less foundation with wires. I can go on and on. I have seen it recommended that you read and study for a year before even attempting to purchase bees or equipment. Every step of the way has multiple choices and different choices meet the needs of different plans.

Best of luck and my best advice is you double up on education. You have a long way to go and don't want to get caught short when you are actually managing bees.

On the bottom board, I know lots of keepers that used them. note used. some still do but for the most part people area switching back. they may help withe mites but they seem to cause more problems than they solve.


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## alleyyooper (Apr 22, 2005)

Eyelets are not standard with frame parts. If you are useing deeps in an area that gets hot I suggest two horzontal wires embeded in the wax foundation to help support the heavy drawn comb during inspections. I also highly recommend it if you are going to use a extractor espely a radial one.
Even shallows should be wired for use in an extractor.
Deep foundation that only has the vertial wires can and will sag when held on its side while looking for eggs and other things in the hive. and will blow out in a motorized radial extractor at the slowest speed.

V's on the end bars I have only seen on Kelley frames and parts. Just a little gimic to help reduce the amount of proplis the bees use on the frames. I haven't ever had a big problem with it on other company frames with out the V or the ones I make.

Plactiac bottom boards are not the end of the world but screen bottom boards I prefuer.

Bee source dot com used to have a list of things you can make and I also think the assembly of frames there. 


 Al


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## CarolT (Mar 12, 2009)

DanielY said:


> Did you choose shallow, med or deep frames. Did you choose one size for brood box and another for honey supers? What is the foundation cell size. will it match the size of the bees you are going to order? This not a critical issue but I would not want to place natural bees on foundation with 4.9 cells in it. they may not take to it very well. Have you looked at natural comb vs foundation at all? Are you planning on producing comb honey at all? if so then you don't want foundation at all much less foundation with wires. I can go on and on. I have seen it recommended that you read and study for a year before even attempting to purchase bees or equipment. Every step of the way has multiple choices and different choices meet the needs of different plans.


How do you tell what size the foundation is? I haven't got a lot of experience at all, but the few people I've seen doing honey around here sliced the comb against the vertical wires so they were nice rectangles and said they preferred it that way. Also, the foundation is made from beeswax, so why is it bad to use? Thanks! I'm enjoying the chance to learn


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## alleyyooper (Apr 22, 2005)

Bees wax foundation is the very best foundation from the bees point of view and will draw it out into comb with out hesatation. The plastiac junk you have to paint with bees wax and even then they will be less than thrilled to draw it out.

If the seller didn't tell you that what you bought was small cell foundation(4.9 cells per inch.) then it is probably the normal size(5.2 cells per inch.).

Isn't all that big of deal really, I feel but the small cells do have benifits. Since the cells are small the vorra mite tends not to lay eggs in the small size cells. But alone that means nothing because they will lay in those small cells if nothing else is there. Drone cells will be made in that small cell foundation and the mites will go to that.

Install a frame of drone comb cell foundation (green color if plastic) the queen lays the eggs in them along with the mites eggs. If drone cell foundation is used in wood frames mark the top bars so you know which frame to pull. Every 20 days about remove the drone comb frame and freeze it for at least 24 hours. Have another drone frame to replace it while it is froze.

Also if you are not raiseing queens you do not need drones. In regular brood frames with drone cells use a capping scratcher to open those capped drone cells and clean the mites out of them.

 Al


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## DanielY (Aug 25, 2011)

Carol, The list is pretty much just a few things that you could read about and make decisions on. not all are critical. Not all bees will take readily to small cell. You will get people that argue for and against just about anything including small cell.

One argument against foundation for comb honey is that wax foundation is contaminated wax. Your decision in regard to it is your decision. the better informed the more sure of your decision you can be.

For the most part it simply appears you have a ways to go in the information gathering department and I just encourage you to give it a conscience effort. More details than you can shake a stick at.

As far as your original question. maybe this will help.

http://www.beesource.com/build-it-yourself/10-frame-langstroth-barry-birkey/

download the PDF and the picture shows you the order in which the pieces stack up.


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## CarolT (Mar 12, 2009)

? My original question was how to tell the size of the foundation? Think that may have been meant for Cheryl?


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## OkieDavid (Jan 15, 2007)

You can determine cell size with a metric ruler. Measure cells from wall to wall. Be sure to measure several (10 or more) and take the average measurement. 4.9mm is considered small cell, 5.1mm or larger is what most folks would call common.

ETA: an average measurement of 5.0 mm would be what I call "regressing".... they are bees that are transitioning to small cell.


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## CarolT (Mar 12, 2009)

Thanks OkieDavid! Now, alley says 4.9 per inch and you say 4.9 mm per cell. Sorry if I'm dense, but is it one or the other or does it work out the same no matter which way you check? TIA


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## OkieDavid (Jan 15, 2007)

http://www.bushfarms.com/images/Dadant49mmMeasured.JPG


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## mistletoad (Apr 17, 2003)

CarolT said:


> Thanks OkieDavid! Now, alley says 4.9 per inch and you say 4.9 mm per cell. Sorry if I'm dense, but is it one or the other or does it work out the same no matter which way you check? TIA


I know nothing about bees but both of those come out about the same. 4.9mm is just under 1/5 of an inch each. 4.9 per inch is just over 1/5 of an inch each.


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## CarolT (Mar 12, 2009)

Thanks! The metric system just messes with my brain so much! Guess that's what I get for being so old... <sigh>


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