# Overdue goat; How long is too long?



## tinknal (May 21, 2004)

I bought a bred doe last week. She was due to kid on the 11th per her previous owner (who is very detailed oriented and fusses over her goats) She is obviously very pregnant and it is now 8 days past her due date. She is acting normal, eating, active, and so on. She shows no signs of distress. How long can a goat typically safely go past their due date?


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## nehimama (Jun 18, 2005)

I understand your anxiety, and wish I had an answer for you. I hope someone, like Dr. Barski will address this for you. Hoping all goes well!


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## tinknal (May 21, 2004)

nehimama said:


> I understand your anxiety, and wish I had an answer for you. I hope someone, like Dr. Barski will address this for you. Hoping all goes well!


LOL, I'm a farm boy, not anxious at all (but my wife is).


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## Caprice Acres (Mar 6, 2005)

It's not unheard of that overdue animals kid normally. Whether it's delayed migration of the egg/delayed recognition of pregnancy or just a weird phenomenon, or a major health concern is very hard to say just by guessing. 

HOWEVER, it is COMMON - even among the very intense breeders that accidents can happen and she may not be due for another 3 weeks or several days due to short cycling or being bred on the next heat despite what the breeder thinks. You'd have to assess the risk of that depending on the breeder's information. If they sold all the bucks after breeding than you can be more sure that her duedate is accurate than if there are bucks on the property at all, for example. If they share a fenceline, if they have young-ish kids or the disinterested spouse helping with chores (who may very helpfully have put away an escaped buck they noticed in the doe pen and didn't write it down), or if you question the recordkeeping at all, or if the bucks share a fenceline with the does - then you just can't say. It's usually not IMPOSSIBLE, even if it is super unlikely according to the breeder. 

A 'cloudburst pregnancy' or hydrometra can cause an animal to appear 'super pregnant' and gain a LOT of weight when really there is nothing but fluid in a gigantic fluid distended uterus, and in that case a quick ultrasound would clarify.

Another option is a fetal monster or fetal death causing a failure of onset of parturition. Fetal stress causes an onset of labor as the babies signal the dam that gestation is over and it's getting a bit crowded and the food isn't that great anymore.  But if the fetus(es) are not normal or dead, there is no fetal signal to the dam and thus an extended gestation. 

You have a few options, and which you choose depends on what you're comfortable with. You can do nothing, and see what happens - be aware with fetal monsters you may be dealing with a deformity that cannot pass vaginally and a C-section would be the best option. You can have her assessed by a veterinarian for pregnancy status now or later with a quick and usually inexpensive trans-abdominal ultrasound. You can induce labor and expect kids - ready or not - in 36-48hrs depending on the protocol and drugs you use. 

Also, what signs are you going by to diagnose the pregnancy? Belly size alone is not accurate, as some animals 'look' pregnant every day of their life because they are ruminants and belly size is mostly determined by rumen fill.


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## muleskinner2 (Oct 7, 2007)

Is she draining, and is she bagged up? Is she looking back at her sides, or trying to rub her head against her belly?

Muleskinner2


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## tinknal (May 21, 2004)

Caprice Acres said:


> It's not unheard of that overdue animals kid normally. Whether it's delayed migration of the egg/delayed recognition of pregnancy or just a weird phenomenon, or a major health concern is very hard to say just by guessing.
> 
> HOWEVER, it is COMMON - even among the very intense breeders that accidents can happen and she may not be due for another 3 weeks or several days due to short cycling or being bred on the next heat despite what the breeder thinks. You'd have to assess the risk of that depending on the breeder's information. If they sold all the bucks after breeding than you can be more sure that her duedate is accurate than if there are bucks on the property at all, for example. If they share a fenceline, if they have young-ish kids or the disinterested spouse helping with chores (who may very helpfully have put away an escaped buck they noticed in the doe pen and didn't write it down), or if you question the recordkeeping at all, or if the bucks share a fenceline with the does - then you just can't say. It's usually not IMPOSSIBLE, even if it is super unlikely according to the breeder.
> 
> ...


Her belly is distended in a way unlikely to be just fluid, that and I can see the kids moving. Vagina is swelling but not huge yet. She was acting distressed earlier today but has settled down and is resting now. Hard to tell but it seems as if her bag has started filling the last day or so. I'm fairly certain that she was with the buck long enough to be bred in a second heat.


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## tinknal (May 21, 2004)

muleskinner2 said:


> Is she draining, and is she bagged up? Is she looking back at her sides, or trying to rub her head against her belly?
> 
> Muleskinner2


Not bagged yet but may be filling now. No mucus, She has been rubbing her side along the cattle panel fence but I attributed that to burrs, is that a sign?


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## nehimama (Jun 18, 2005)

Rubbing along a fence or a wall; attempts to get the kids in position, perhaps. The signs that alert me are softened ligaments at the tailhead, and going off alone.


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## muleskinner2 (Oct 7, 2007)

Watch her close and be ready to help. Is this her first time? Sounds to me like she was bred a week later than they thought. No mother, human, goat, or elephant is due on a certain day. Mother nature just doesn't work that way.

Muleskinner2


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## Caprice Acres (Mar 6, 2005)

Actually, a hydrometra can be much MORE fluid - enough to cause pathology - and increases of total weight than a NORMAL pregnancy, so 'just fluid' it could very well be. 

If there is an udder started, that is more indicative than belly size. Though precocious lactations happen (not nearly as common as a true pregnancy), it is a better indicator than belly size. As for kids moving - The rumen makes massive contractions 2-3x per minute. In pregnant animals this is best seen on the LEFT side, but in non-pregnant animals you can usually easily see these shifts on both sides to some degree. Therefore, a moving belly is easily also misinterpreted as 'kid movement' when it could just be a totally normal rumen. 

Stretching and Itching can be early labor, sure. Have you felt for her ligaments yet? There are two that will soften and disappear prior to kidding. I think you can find some old edited pictures I made 10+ years ago by google search.  (Still have one of the pet does who 'modeled' for me, too!) Let me see if I can find 'em...



















and one from Fias Co Farm that shows the sunken tailhead appearance:









These ligaments leave within about 12-24hrs of giving birth. Usually accompanied by a sudden and dramatic increase in udder size, which usually becomes taut and 'shiny' in appearance. She may begin pacing, pawing (nesting), yawing, laying down and getting back up again. Some does become less interested in food as well. She may also leave the rest of the herd to a secluded place in the pasture. Some of my does will hoof it around the pasture away from everybody when in early labor - everyone will be eating hay at the feeder, and a doe in labor may be WAAY back in the pasture just cruisin' along. Stage 1 labor lasts the longest, and she'll have mild contractions and just seem generally uncomfortable. It's even longer in first parturition animals than in multiparous animals. She will have some minor contractions as the kid aligns and begins dilating the cervix, and as the smaller parts (front or rear legs) pass through and begin entering the vaginal canal. Once the cervix engages with the head/neck/shoulders, it's usually hard labor and very regular contractions. This should go on for about 30 mins or less before a kid is presented. if you see a mispresentation, intervene immediately. If toes are lined up with the nose I usually will mildly assist to extend elbows and reduce 'elbow lock' and speed labor ease. Once nose is out I typically wipe with a rag to ensure once it hits the dirt it is able to breathe free air, and it may start to intake air as it's passed as well, especially if the doe gets distracted. Successive twins should follow at about <15min intervals until done, then the afterbirth within about 12 hours, though usually just 2-4 hrs or so. To assess if she is done, you can 'bump' her by putting your hands in front of her udder (facing her rear, straddling her is easiest for me) and lift her belly quickly. If you feel something hard and knobby, it's a kid. If not, she is likely done. IF you're still unsure, you can go in vaginally to check after doing a good scrub of your arm. Do NOT pull any afterbirth, just work around it. 

Good luck!


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## nehimama (Jun 18, 2005)

Oh, good! I was hoping Dr. Barski would chime on on this thread. Thank You!


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## muleskinner2 (Oct 7, 2007)

So what is the news, any babies yet.

Muleskinner2


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## tinknal (May 21, 2004)

muleskinner2 said:


> So what is the news, any babies yet.
> 
> Muleskinner2


Zilch. I'm going to talk to the woman I got her from and see if there could be a mistake, or if she might have caught during the subsequent heat.


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## Goat_Scout (May 24, 2018)

I had a FF Saanen doe go 9 days overdue this year. She was only in with the buck for one day, so I was sure of her due date. Do you have pictures of your doe?


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## nehimama (Jun 18, 2005)

Hi, Goat Scout! Welcome! Glad you joined us.


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## happy hermits (Jan 2, 2018)

Boy caprice acres sure is a god send of information . 
Thank you for all you share.


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## tinknal (May 21, 2004)

Just an update. Apparently the doe did not get bred on the first try. She delivered a single doe kid last night. Baby and mama doing well.


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## nehimama (Jun 18, 2005)

I'm sure you know that we need pictures!


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## EagerlyStill...Learning (Aug 29, 2020)

Ok Guys 1st time here!! Need some HELP PlZ
I know 4 certain when my Abbey git bred...cuz I put them 2gether & watched. Now she's a Pygmy & this ONLY her 2nd pregnancy. I know they say Pygmy dies usually take 150-155 days 4 whatever reason. Ok her 155th day was Monday & this is just Now Beginning Sat.early AM. Which means 5 DAYS Over& I Am Concerned! & a bit scared 2...Shoukd I be??


tinknal said:


> I bought a bred doe last week. She was due to kid on the 11th per her previous owner (who is very detailed oriented and fusses over her goats) She is obviously very pregnant and it is now 8 days past her due date. She is acting normal, eating, active, and so on. She shows no signs of distress. How long can a goat typically safely go past their due date?


I FEEL UR CONCERNS MINE IS JUST BARELY 6 DAYS OVER& I'M GETTING WORRIED!! CAN ANYONE PLZ ADVICE ME WHAT TO FO???_


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## Alice In TX/MO (May 10, 2002)

Wait.


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## EagerlyStill...Learning (Aug 29, 2020)

Alice In TX/MO said:


> Wait.


WAIT...???? That's ALL??


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## Alice In TX/MO (May 10, 2002)

Watch.

Is she distressed? Bagged up?


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## altair (Jul 23, 2011)

Did she pop yet?


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