# Teen mental health issues



## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

This is an interesting read, and I agree with quite a bit of it.

"With teen mental health deteriorating over five years, there's a likely culprit

Around 2012, something started going wrong in the lives of teens.

In just the five years between 2010 and 2015, the number of U.S. teens who felt useless and joyless – classic symptoms of depression – surged 33 percent in large national surveys. Teen suicide attempts increased 23 percent. Even more troubling, the number of 13- to 18-year-olds who committed suicide jumped 31 percent.

In a new paper published in Clinical Psychological Science, my colleagues and I found that the increases in depression, suicide attempts and suicide appeared among teens from every background – more privileged and less privileged, across all races and ethnicities and in every region of the country. All told, our analysis found that the generation of teens I call “iGen” – those born after 1995 – is much more likely to experience mental health issues than their millennial predecessors.

What happened so that so many more teens, in such a short period of time, would feel depressed, attempt suicide and commit suicide? After scouring several large surveys of teens for clues, I found that all of the possibilities traced back to a major change in teens’ lives: the sudden ascendance of the smartphone."

http://www.iflscience.com/health-an...ting-over-five-years-theres-a-likely-culprit/


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## Redlands Okie (Nov 28, 2017)

“in-person social interaction,”

People dealing with life hands on and in person have a chance to learn how to better handle things. Placing a lot of value on issues and the only thing you can do is press the ignore button does not seem to bode well for someone learning to deal with life. Life is not fair, and everyone is not a winner. It’s got to be learned how to dealt with.


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## MoonRiver (Sep 2, 2007)

Carrying around those little emf bombs really does damage to a developing brain, doesn't it? It also explains why they don't sleep well. Blue light makes it even worse.


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## Wolf mom (Mar 8, 2005)

https://www.homesteadingtoday.com/t...-son-watch-mister-rogers-neighborhood.568896/

A heartwarming post to read - written by our own Shrek.


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## Clem (Apr 12, 2016)

Oddly enough, very early this morning I was watching a documentary on the history channel(no idea of how old it was, I was watching it on the internet) called "The Stoned Ages". It struck a chord of truth when one of the people interviewed said that the popularization of LSD changed a whole generation. Which was true. Even if you never touched it, your generation was affected by the possibilities that were there. 

The popularization of the internet did the same. Now, with smartphones, it's another huge change. The internet, along with video-communicating with friends and strangers makes for something completely different from sitting at a desk, tied to a mouse and keyboard.

Virtual reality is next. 

Remember Pandora's box? You just can't put progress back in the box. Like it or not, the future happens every second of every day. 
Oh brave new world, that has such people in it.(I didn't say that, it's from William Shakespeare)


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## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

Clem said:


> Oddly enough, very early this morning I was watching a documentary on the history channel(no idea of how old it was, I was watching it on the internet) called "The Stoned Ages". It struck a chord of truth when one of the people interviewed said that the popularization of LSD changed a whole generation. Which was true. Even if you never touched it, your generation was affected by the possibilities that were there.
> 
> The popularization of the internet did the same. Now, with smartphones, it's another huge change. The internet, along with video-communicating with friends and strangers makes for something completely different from sitting at a desk, tied to a mouse and keyboard.
> 
> ...


Excellent post, and I agree...


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## haypoint (Oct 4, 2006)

We live in a time of great changes and advances. But to pick a single factor, seems short sighted. Tide pods and a hundred other things have shaped our world in the past 30 years.
There has been a move toward individual importance and away from group participation. When students step out into traffic and are hit by vehicles, my generation tends to see careless pedestrians. Young folks today see careless drivers hurting pedestrians because pedestrians should have the right of way. When the world revolves around you, life is grand. But difficulties are viewed as personal, too.
As I matured, there were many inequities, mistreatments, bullying and a ton of hard work and effort could still result in a failure. This is how the world is and I experienced it early and often. It is known as coping. Perhaps going through the developing years without such coping experiences would result in young adults over reacting when life knocks them down.


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## itsb (Jan 13, 2013)

If I was a kid and I seen my mom,dressed in a vigina costume on tv where all my peers were watching, or I seen my dad kissing another guy or any of the hundreds of things that our children have had pushed on them I would be suisidal also


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## Heritagefarm (Feb 21, 2010)

I think much of the problem is because public schools are soulless and increasingly mindless bastions of intellectual dumbing down, bullying, unmotivated teachers, petty politicking... essentially schools are much like prisons these days.


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

Heritagefarm said:


> I think much of the problem is because public schools are soulless and increasingly mindless bastions of intellectual dumbing down, bullying, unmotivated teachers, petty politicking... essentially schools are much like prisons these days.


How much time have you spent in prison?


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## Heritagefarm (Feb 21, 2010)

Bearfootfarm said:


> How much time have you spent in prison?


I have spent no time in either prison or school. My information comes from the numerous disillusioned and depressed young people I talk to on the internet.


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## mreynolds (Jan 1, 2015)

Heritagefarm said:


> I have spent no time in either prison or school. My information comes from the numerous disillusioned and depressed young people I talk to on the internet.


So that's why your disillusioned too. You should broaden your horizons.


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## Heritagefarm (Feb 21, 2010)

mreynolds said:


> So that's why your disillusioned too. You should broaden your horizons.


I'm quite optimistic actually. I feel sorry for much of our nation's youth though.


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## Shine (Feb 19, 2011)

Well, this is a discussion board and we get to supply our opinions in response to some issues that get posted for discussion. 

I see the destruction of the family unit being a very substantial cause. While I will not belittle any woman who chooses to stay at home as a homemaker and nurturing parent, I would say that this is a crucial event in bringing up well rounded kids. To the Homemaker/nurturing parent, I would say that it is far more easy to go off to a job to get a check for working, the homemaker toils much harder than the person that goes to work for the day. When it was necessary for me to be a single parent, I found out much about something that I had taken for granted.

With the advent of feminism [I am of the opinion that women should always earn the same wage/salaries as any man as long as they have the ability to perform the duties in a fashion similar to the men] coupled with the costs of living [materialism] which drew the second parent out of the house to climb some mythical ladder of happiness, we lost something that had pretty much been a constant for quite some time, the family unit. Now we see the long term and obvious stagnation of the wages and salaries which, in a sense, destroyed the family unit, ruling the day.

Off topic but when I watch BlueBloods [a fictional show] the thing that draws at my heart the most is the moments within the Reagan dining room. I remember the dinner times, the lunch times, and the breakfast times where, [if you wanted to eat] the family gathered and joined in[for the most part] sharing information that allowed every member of the family to connect to each other. This happened in my life too[The Reagans had better food but, oh, well] and I lost my mom at 13, and essentially my dad too as he was in assisted living, my family core went south.


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

Heritagefarm said:


> I have spent no time in either prison or school. *My information comes from* the numerous disillusioned and depressed young people I talk to on *the internet*.


So you really don't *know* anything at all?
You just repeat hearsay?
That makes sense.


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## Texaspredatorhu (Sep 15, 2015)

Heritagefarm said:


> I have spent no time in either prison or school. My information comes from the numerous disillusioned and depressed young people I talk to on the internet.


Like the ones who were eating tide pods? I mean surely they are a reliable source, right? Instead of the government asking tide to change their design maybe parents should have slapped their dumb kid around and knock some sense into them.


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## Steve_S (Feb 25, 2015)

Not identified & ignored but:

- how many youth have little hope for the future ?
- all kids hear about the environment and the trouble were in and see the adults fighting, arguing and being childishly stupid over a crisis that will affect them and their futures... How do they feel when the "Guardians of the future (aka the supposed adults in charge)" are doing squat or only paying lip service to the issue - kids KNOW they are being saddled.
- how does all the Fear, Anger & Hatred being purveyed via the internet / social media affect their feelings & views ?
- what about the war mongering and constant rhetoric which has a deep mental impact
- the lack of “downtime” to process, assimilate & place all the information they are taking in with no time to breath in between… we are in a React, Counter react, Respond Immediately feedback loop, which is not healthy for anyone regardless of age.
- Add in the increasing drug & alcohol abuse (which is an indicator as an artificial feel good compensator) that creates it’s own subset of problems and issues.
- The Anger & Vitriol our World Leaders, National Leaders throw at each other plus all these Fake News / Alt Realities and other harmful tactics used does not elicit much faith for the future, youth look at leaders to lead by example, what example are they SEEING & Perceiving ? Certainly nothing positive that would provide hope or positive outlook… 

Yes it is a complicated subject but do see the forest and all of it’s trees, then look at the obvious and what is being presented / purveyed as a whole and how that is being received, interpreted and how that will affect their overall views and feelings. As people feel they have no control and lose hope for the future, they begin to act out, selfish behaviours come to the forefront and the unshakable feeling that they are owed and have to collect while they can before it’s too late, are major indicators and we see that being reported in the news / media daily in various forms. 

Our kids, teens, young adults and what / how they are doing is an indicator of a society and it’s success on the whole. Kids shooting kids in school which have metal detectors & police at the doorsteps. Anyone remember the Affluenza farce ? that is telling in it’s own right….

Consider a child born in 1995 was 6 years old when 9-11 happened and after that, the deluge began and hasn't ended, has only ramped up and not just the anti-terrorism stuff, everything else went flaming up and even the whole "Cold War Mentality" crap we have... just ramping up, up & up.... add in kids shooting each other in schools, more & more crime on the streets....

Life was much simpler when all we had to worry about was "The Bomb"


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## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

itsb said:


> If I was a kid and I seen my mom,dressed in a vigina costume on tv where all my peers were watching, or I seen my dad kissing another guy or any of the hundreds of things that our children have had pushed on them I would be suisidal also


I think overall (there are still pockets of ugly) kids and young adults are less judgmental and open to people being different now, it's one of the things that gives me hope. Of course your mileage may vary.


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## Texaspredatorhu (Sep 15, 2015)

Heritagefarm said:


> I'm quite optimistic actually. I feel sorry for much of our nation's youth though.


Why? Most of them think they are entitled to something and want everything given to them. Ever wonder why the work force is shrinking? Everyone claims it to be the baby boomers retiring when the number entering the work force is shrinking. These kids don’t want to work they want it handed to them, something the government has created.


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## farmrbrown (Jun 25, 2012)

I haven't read more than the excerpt yet, I gotta make some $ today, lol.
But it sounds like what a lot of us have been trying to tell y'all for weeks now.
Namely that _*something*_ has changed in the last generation to cause the chaos we are seeing and it isn't the availability of firearms because that has been fairly constant for a couple centuries.


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## barnbilder (Jul 1, 2005)

When we were kids, you got bullied in the government institution you were forced to go to. You were denied the ability to deal with bullying in a normal societal manner. But then you got to go home. You could ride your bike, your horse, listen to music or hang out with friends that you got along with. Today's youth get the same level of bullying in their institutional life, (a completely unnecessary situation seeing as how we have technology available that could replace teachers with apps) . The difference is that today's youth don't have extra curricular activities, those have been deemed too dangerous by lazy parents, so they are forced to continue the bullying on the many social platforms available on their device. This has proven to have disastrous results in some cases.When we learn, as a society, to make better use of the technology available, this should resolve itself.


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## oneraddad (Jul 20, 2010)

Texaspredatorhu said:


> Like the ones who were eating tide pods? I mean surely they are a reliable source, right? Instead of the government asking tide to change their design maybe parents should have slapped their dumb kid around and knock some sense into them.



Did you get slapped around as a kid ?


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## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

barnbilder said:


> When we were kids, you got bullied in the government institution you were forced to go to. You were denied the ability to deal with bullying in a normal societal manner. But then you got to go home. You could ride your bike, your horse, listen to music or hang out with friends that you got along with. Today's youth get the same level of bullying in their institutional life, (a completely unnecessary situation seeing as how we have technology available that could replace teachers with apps) . The difference is that today's youth don't have extra curricular activities, those have been deemed too dangerous by lazy parents, so they are forced to continue the bullying on the many social platforms available on their device. This has proven to have disastrous results in some cases.When we learn, as a society, to make better use of the technology available, this should resolve itself.


I agreed with your post until you blamed "lazy parents", some of those parents have no choice but to be out of the home working so they can't do as much with their children. Many parents can't afford extra curricular activities, or they just aren't available in the area. It's easy to just to blame "lazy parents" but it's not not true in many cases.


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## AmericanStand (Jul 29, 2014)

Irish Pixie said:


> I agreed with your post until you blamed "lazy parents", some of those parents have no choice but to be out of the home working so they can't do as much with their children. Many parents can't afford extra curricular activities, or they just aren't available in the area. It's easy to just to blame "lazy parents" but it's not not true in many cases.


 You are right it’s not Lazy it’s greedy. 
If they weren’t so greedy they would stay home with their kids like they should.


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## keenataz (Feb 17, 2009)

AmericanStand said:


> You are right it’s not Lazy it’s greedy.
> If they weren’t so greedy they would stay home with their kids like they should.


Pretty quick to judge people you don't knnow. Like many people need two incomes to just support a family.


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## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

keenataz said:


> Pretty quick to judge people you don't knnow. Like many people need two incomes to just support a family.


That whole roof over your head and food thing takes two incomes if they are near minimum wage.


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## coolrunnin (Aug 28, 2010)

AmericanStand said:


> You are right it’s not Lazy it’s greedy.
> If they weren’t so greedy they would stay home with their kids like they should.


Soooo I take it you lied about trucking all this time and stayed on the farm to raise them kids?


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## Farmerga (May 6, 2010)

The sudden rise in such thinking, I believe, is caused by our increasingly impersonal world. The rise of the internet and the tech based on it is part of that. It gives would be bullies the platform to bully without many of the negative consequences . They can be unseen, physical strength is not important, they don't have to look their victims in the eye, etc.. Pair that with the sudden crap storm brought about by the 24 hour "News" channels and a generation of hopeless children is not a far fetched idea. I mean if you don't have a iron stomach, a fully functional BS filter, and nerves of steel, one might believe that the oceans will boil, the land will sink, and no one will ever love you.


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## Heritagefarm (Feb 21, 2010)

Texaspredatorhu said:


> Why? Most of them think they are entitled to something and want everything given to them. Ever wonder why the work force is shrinking? Everyone claims it to be the baby boomers retiring when the number entering the work force is shrinking. These kids don’t want to work they want it handed to them, something the government has created.


That's not entirely true. A lot of them do feel entitled. But most of them are much more aware than you and others will give them credit for. They know the stuff they're learning every day in school often won't benefit them in any way, they know they're going to struggle to find work and happiness and success outside Of school, or they are subject to bullying and often get subjected to overbearing teachers and parents who believe children are vessels to be formed, molded, and filled, rather than actual people with their own unique perspectives and interesting take on things. 

And, they're certainly not helped by people like you looking down on them are ignorant entitled brats. That sends highly negative messages to them. I hope you're not in charge of any kids IRL with an attitude like that.


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## Texaspredatorhu (Sep 15, 2015)

Heritagefarm said:


> That's not entirely true. A lot of them do feel entitled. But most of them are much more aware than you and others will give them credit for. They know the stuff they're learning every day in school often won't benefit them in any way, they know they're going to struggle to find work and happiness and success outside Of school, or they are subject to bullying and often get subjected to overbearing teachers and parents who believe children are vessels to be formed, molded, and filled, rather than actual people with their own unique perspectives and interesting take on things.
> 
> And, they're certainly not helped by people like you looking down on them are ignorant entitled brats. That sends highly negative messages to them. I hope you're not in charge of any kids IRL with an attitude like that.


The ones that do go out and work while going to school or learn a skill I have nothing but respect for. The ones who go through high school and college without ever working and then expect to make some huge starting wage or salary are the ones I have an issue with. No one starts at the top, you need to work your way up. I never said I looked down upon them, you did. But most kids don’t go outside anymore, most don’t work through school, most have zero experience coming into the work force and expect to make top dollar, so how is what i said sending a negative message. Maybe the youth should look to people who work hard for everything they have and use it as a lesson instead of being offended by every dang thing. You would rather coddle these kids and make sure they have everything the WANT instead of making them work for something so they can appreciate what they have.


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## Heritagefarm (Feb 21, 2010)

Texaspredatorhu said:


> The ones that do go out and work while going to school or learn a skill I have nothing but respect for. The ones who go through high school and college without ever working and then expect to make some huge starting wage or salary are the ones I have an issue with. No one starts at the top, you need to work your way up. I never said I looked down upon them, you did. But most kids don’t go outside anymore, most don’t work through school, most have zero experience coming into the work force and expect to make top dollar, so how is what i said sending a negative message. Maybe the youth should look to people who work hard for everything they have and use it as a lesson instead of being offended by every dang thing. You would rather coddle these kids and make sure they have everything the WANT instead of making them work for something so they can appreciate what they have.


So the only difference to you is whether or not someone works while they're in hs and college or not? Are you aware that kids who work and go to high school at the same time generally get lower grades because of the amount of time they have to devote to their jobs? 

A lot of them do it anyway, though. And many more college students work part time than don't.

Also, the idea of getting a degree is to get OUT of the workforce and achieve a salaried position in a respectable job that doesn't break your back by age 45. 

So o don't really know what you're saying at this point. I think I understand the current young generation a bit better, because I'm close to that age and I told to them a lot. Maybe you should try talking to some young people about their fears, trials, and hope for the future. Without judging them. Maybe you'll learn something when trying to see from their perspective.


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## hiddensprings (Aug 6, 2009)

This is a difficult topic to come up with a solution for or even try to figure out the “why’s” behind it. It’s also the type of discussion that is generational. I mean each generation before says something to the effect of “I don’t understand today’s youth”. It will continue. For me, I can only effect my little portion of the world. I hope that I have raised self-assured, strong children that will raise their own self-assured strong children. I can volunteer and mentor with local kids in my area that maybe don’t have support at home. (Not judging, just saying that not all children get the right support at home) The old saying about it takes a village to raise a child should still be true. But IMO, it’s not. People don’t know their neighbors, parents don’t get involved in their children’s schools, in other words, we totally lack communication...verbal communication. My hubby and I decided long ago that we are a technology-free zone when it comes to our grandchildren. I know they need to know how to use a computer, but they do not need to be on one 24/7. There’s a BIG BEAUTIFUL world out there that they should be a part of.


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## Texaspredatorhu (Sep 15, 2015)

Heritagefarm said:


> So the only difference to you is whether or not someone works while they're in hs and college or not? Are you aware that kids who work and go to high school at the same time generally get lower grades because of the amount of time they have to devote to their jobs?
> 
> A lot of them do it anyway, though. And many more college students work part time than don't.
> 
> ...


While I worked in the shop, I saw on average 15-18 employees in the age range of 19-23 and saw their work ethic and the commitment to the job. Most wont buy tools because they can’t afford them they claim when you can do pay toll deduction to purchase at our employer. If you ain’t willing to spend money to do your job pack up and leave. Many will work 3-6 months and try to learn and after that they know it all and make mistakes constantly and won’t listen on what they did was wrong and there are better ways. Then there’s the matter of being on time. I would say half show up on time ready to work the other half drinks coffee until 730 screwing off. We also have an internship program where out of 20 we might hire 2. Very few actually try to learn all they can and not whine about crappy jobs. I dealt with the younger crowd very regularly until I went to the field in order to remove myself from that environment. Seeing things from their perspective isn’t hard. I did all the crappy jobs starting off. I was usually paired with the older guys and spent hours cleaning parts. But I asked questions and learned what they were and why they failed. More respect is given to those who did the job before becoming a manager than those who walk into it and can’t even begin to tell you how to do the job let alone have any experience with it.

I wouldn’t assume a whole lot considering I’m not all that far off that age either just raised better I guess.


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## Heritagefarm (Feb 21, 2010)

Texaspredatorhu said:


> While I worked in the shop, I saw on average 15-18 employees in the age range of 19-23 and saw their work ethic and the commitment to the job. Most wont buy tools because they can’t afford them they claim when you can do pay toll deduction to purchase at our employer. If you ain’t willing to spend money to do your job pack up and leave. Many will work 3-6 months and try to learn and after that they know it all and make mistakes constantly and won’t listen on what they did was wrong and there are better ways. Then there’s the matter of being on time. I would say half show up on time ready to work the other half drinks coffee until 730 screwing off. We also have an internship program where out of 20 we might hire 2. Very few actually try to learn all they can and not whine about crappy jobs. I dealt with the younger crowd very regularly until I went to the field in order to remove myself from that environment. Seeing things from their perspective isn’t hard. I did all the crappy jobs starting off. I was usually paired with the older guys and spent hours cleaning parts. But I asked questions and learned what they were and why they failed. More respect is given to those who did the job before becoming a manager than those who walk into it and can’t even begin to tell you how to do the job let alone have any experience with it.
> 
> I wouldn’t assume a whole lot considering I’m not all that far off that age either just raised better I guess.


Consider the type of person generally attracted to that type of job. I think that explains most of the problem.


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## wr (Aug 10, 2003)

Heritagefarm said:


> Consider the type of person generally attracted to that type of job. I think that explains most of the problem.


What 'type' of job is that?


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## Texaspredatorhu (Sep 15, 2015)

Heritagefarm said:


> Consider the type of person generally attracted to that type of job. I think that explains most of the problem.


I highly doubt your anywhere near the ball park on that statement. Many have and continue to make a better living than most with college degrees in my line of work. And just out of curiousity, what type of person is “attracted” to this job? Teachers rack up thousands in debt to become a teacher and for little pay, not that I agree with it but I guess that’s the type that job attracts. There are far more teachers today collecting a paycheck than there were 10-15 years ago.


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## Heritagefarm (Feb 21, 2010)

wr said:


> What 'type' of job is that?





Texaspredatorhu said:


> I highly doubt your anywhere near the ball park on that statement. Many have and continue to make a better living than most with college degrees in my line of work. And just out of curiousity, what type of person is “attracted” to this job? Teachers rack up thousands in debt to become a teacher and for little pay, not that I agree with it but I guess that’s the type that job attracts. There are far more teachers today collecting a paycheck than there were 10-15 years ago.


I'll leave it to your imaginations.


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## wr (Aug 10, 2003)

Heritagefarm said:


> I'll leave it to your imaginations.


I prefer clarification.


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## Texaspredatorhu (Sep 15, 2015)

Heritagefarm said:


> I'll leave it to your imaginations.


Well I would go out on a limb and say your credibility goes to the end of your nose because that is clearly all the further you can see. I have a bachelors degree in business and make far more not using it and only got it for the GI Bill money because I paid into it. That being said, clearly you don’t know a whole lot about the work force and where people fall into it. You seem to be one of those who think you can’t earn a living without a degree. If everyone had a degree they would be nothing more than a high school diploma much like they are becoming. There was a time when it meant something to have a bachelor degree, now it’s just one more step and while all those college kids struggle to find their high paying job, those who opted to go into trades are reaping the benefits of increased wages because there is a skills gap and no one wants to do the work. I’m good with it though my pay just keeps going up.


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## Heritagefarm (Feb 21, 2010)

Texaspredatorhu said:


> Well I would go out on a limb and say your credibility goes to the end of your nose because that is clearly all the further you can see. I have a bachelors degree in business and make far more not using it and only got it for the GI Bill money because I paid into it. That being said, clearly you don’t know a whole lot about the work force and where people fall into it. You seem to be one of those who think you can’t earn a living without a degree. If everyone had a degree they would be nothing more than a high school diploma much like they are becoming. There was a time when it meant something to have a bachelor degree, now it’s just one more step and while all those college kids struggle to find their high paying job, those who opted to go into trades are reaping the benefits of increased wages because there is a skills gap and no one wants to do the work. I’m good with it though my pay just keeps going up.


Oh yep, we all know trade school jobs pay a fortune! And there's insurance and benefits and it won't break your back! And there's so much room in the economy for that these days! LMAO!!


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## Texaspredatorhu (Sep 15, 2015)

Heritagefarm said:


> Oh yep, we all know trade school jobs pay a fortune! And there's insurance and benefits and it won't break your back! And there's so much room in the economy for that these days! LMAO!!


Who said anything about it being easy? I have insurance and benefits and I also earn enough where I can pay my bills, but what I want when I want and my wife gets to stay home with the kids and take care of the place. I don’t think you know nearly what you think you do because there are more trades than you think that pay a lot better than many with degrees earn. What’s so wrong with busting your backside while your young and setting yourself up for easy street when you hit 40-45. Instead you can choose to work in a cubical for 40 years. Sounds like a real life. Seeing as you know very little of trade pay scales I’ll give you some insight to a heavy equipment mechanic scale, this is just my company, competitive with many. High school interns make between 12 and 13. College interns start at 14.50 and hire on at 18. The pay scale from there has multiple over lapping levels topping out just over 48 an hour. For many in the field we work between 60-70 hours a week. Do the math and at just 30 an hour you can easily clear 100k working 65 hours a week.

But then again if your aspirations are to work in a 8x8 cubical maxing out at 65k a year then by all means keep talking poorly about those that actually keep the country moving and building.


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## mreynolds (Jan 1, 2015)

Heritagefarm said:


> Consider the type of person generally attracted to that type of job. I think that explains most of the problem.


LMAO.....I dont hear you complaining about having internet connection that _*those*_ people laid so you can sit here and look down on them. 

I didn't hear you complaining about _*those*_ people that built your travel trailer so you could get out and see the world. 

You didn't complain about _*those*_ people that built that college you attended. 

Without *those* people you wouldn't even be where you are today. But you go ahead and keep on hating.


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## mreynolds (Jan 1, 2015)

Heritagefarm said:


> Oh yep, we all know trade school jobs pay a fortune! And there's insurance and benefits and it won't break your back! And there's so much room in the economy for that these days! LMAO!!


My grandfather was a machinist. He passed away at 97 yo and never had back surgery. He walked better than most people until the day he died. I do know a lot of people that sit at a desk all day that get back surgery in there 40's and 50's though.

ETA: He was a millionaire when he retired in 1964. Adjusted for inflation that's not a bad deal.


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## Texaspredatorhu (Sep 15, 2015)

mreynolds said:


> LMAO.....I dont hear you complaining about having internet connection that _*those*_ people laid so you can sit here and look down on them.
> 
> I didn't hear you complaining about _*those*_ people that built your travel trailer so you could get out and see the world.
> 
> ...


Gotta love a snob!


----------



## Texaspredatorhu (Sep 15, 2015)

mreynolds said:


> My grandfather was a machinist. He passed away at 97 yo and never had back surgery. He walked better than most people until the day he died. I do know a lot of people that sit at a desk all day that get back surgery in there 40's and 50's though.
> 
> ETA: He was a millionaire when he retired in 1964. Adjusted for inflation that's not a bad deal.


My grandparents, grandma now, is a millionaire and neither one of them have degrees just owned and sold many businesses and invested in rental properties and apartments. My grandfather was a mason his whole life too. Not too shabby for lack of a degree. When he was alive he would help anyone and everyone.


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## mreynolds (Jan 1, 2015)

Texaspredatorhu said:


> Gotta love a snob!



You mean......I GOTTA?


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## Texaspredatorhu (Sep 15, 2015)

mreynolds said:


> You mean......I GOTTA?


Well.......it’s the right thing to do, but us skilled laborers are generally to broke and stupid to do the right thing!


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## mreynolds (Jan 1, 2015)

Texaspredatorhu said:


> Well.......it’s the right thing to do, but us skilled laborers are generally to *broke and stupid to do the right thing*!


That's why I asked just to make sure. Maybe we should ask someone with a degree? It's just too hard to understand anything these days.


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## Texaspredatorhu (Sep 15, 2015)

mreynolds said:


> That's why I asked just to make sure. Maybe we should ask someone with a degree? It's just too hard to understand anything these days.


I have a degree from UT, I only got it because I paid into the gi bill and decided to use it. I however do not use my degree at all at my job. I also work with several fellow equipment mechanics with degrees and they are far from snobby!


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## Cornhusker (Mar 20, 2003)

I don't pretend to know the answers, but I'm pretty sure it's a combination of things.
These days, if a kid acts up in school we can't paddle him, we medicate him. We all know what some of those drugs can do to a kid.
Video games in lieu of actually spending time with kids...cheap babysitter so Mom and Dad can watch The Bachelor.
Kids aren't taught to respect anybody or anything.
They aren't taught how to handle disappointment or losing.
They aren't taught to keep things in perspective.
It's the way we raise kids the last few years.
This is just my rambling opinion, YMMV


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## oneraddad (Jul 20, 2010)

That's not what the world looks like out my window, you guys world must suck


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## mreynolds (Jan 1, 2015)

Texaspredatorhu said:


> I have a degree from UT, I only got it because I paid into the gi bill and decided to use it. I however do not use my degree at all at my job. I also work with several fellow equipment mechanics with degrees and they are far from snobby!


sssshhhhh... dont tell you know who but I got a full boat scholarship at A&M from excelling in a building trades class in high school. Like you I make more money (and spend less on meds) without it.

I will forgive you the UT since you seem to be an awerite dude.

PS, you know why longhorns wear orange? Its so they can go to the game on Saturday. Go hunting on Sunday. Then go back to picking up trash on Monday-Friday....


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## Texaspredatorhu (Sep 15, 2015)

Cornhusker said:


> I don't pretend to know the answers, but I'm pretty sure it's a combination of things.
> These days, if a kid acts up in school we can't paddle him, we medicate him. We all know what some of those drugs can do to a kid.
> Video games in lieu of actually spending time with kids...cheap babysitter so Mom and Dad can watch The Bachelor.
> Kids aren't taught to respect anybody or anything.
> ...


Introducing the participation trophies!


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## Texaspredatorhu (Sep 15, 2015)

mreynolds said:


> sssshhhhh... dont tell you know who but I got a full boat scholarship at A&M from excelling in a building trades class in high school. Like you I make more money (and spend less on meds) without it.
> 
> I will forgive you the UT since you seem to be an awerite dude.
> 
> PS, you know why longhorns wear orange? Its so they can go to the game on Saturday. Go hunting on Monday. Then go back to picking up trash on Monday-Friday....


Dang!!! Borderline low rent! It’s all good, wish A&M was still big 12 to keep the rivalry alive, seems to have fizzled out now.


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## Cornhusker (Mar 20, 2003)

mreynolds said:


> My grandfather was a machinist. He passed away at 97 yo and never had back surgery. He walked better than most people until the day he died. I do know a lot of people that sit at a desk all day that get back surgery in there 40's and 50's though.
> 
> ETA: He was a millionaire when he retired in 1964. Adjusted for inflation that's not a bad deal.


These days I spend a lot of time at a desk, and it actually does suck.
It's easy work and pays well but man, I miss the days spent on a horse with my eyelids froze shut, or working on a Fish Farm.
Heck, factory work was preferable to sitting and staring at a computer screen all day.
The irony of me sitting here on the computer in the evening is not lost on me, but I'm not just sitting here, I'm actually doing stuff I like too.


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## mreynolds (Jan 1, 2015)

Texaspredatorhu said:


> Dang!!! Borderline low rent! It’s all good, wish A&M was still big 12 to keep the rivalry alive, seems to have fizzled out now.


Well at least you didnt bring up Johnny Football lol. 

Tit for tat. 

Aggie went down to the Dairy Queen and saw a longhorn heading into the Hall of Fame. He went back back to campus and got all the football and basketball team and went back. They sent a scout on ahead to give them the scoop. Right before they got there the scout came back and was yelling....

"Go back, Go back. There's two of 'em."


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## mreynolds (Jan 1, 2015)

Cornhusker said:


> These days I spend a lot of time at a desk, and it actually does suck.
> It's easy work and pays well but man, I miss the days spent on a horse with my eyelids froze shut, or working on a Fish Farm.
> Heck, factory work was preferable to sitting and staring at a computer screen all day.
> The irony of me sitting here on the computer in the evening is not lost on me, but I'm not just sitting here, I'm actually doing stuff I like too.



I have days I have to do that too and I hate it.


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## poppy (Feb 21, 2008)

Texaspredatorhu said:


> Like the ones who were eating tide pods? I mean surely they are a reliable source, right? Instead of the government asking tide to change their design maybe parents should have slapped their dumb kid around and knock some sense into them.


Kids today don't know how lucky they are to have Tide Pods to eat. When I was little all we had were mud pies.


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## mreynolds (Jan 1, 2015)

poppy said:


> Kids today don't know how lucky they are to have Tide Pods to eat. When I was little all we had were mud pies.


And was thankful to get it.


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## Redlands Okie (Nov 28, 2017)

poppy said:


> Kids today don't know how lucky they are to have Tide Pods to eat. When I was little all we had were mud pies.


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

> Heritagefarm said: ↑
> Oh yep, we all know trade school jobs pay a fortune! And there's insurance and benefits and it won't break your back! And there's so much room in the economy for that these days! LMAO!!


So what kind of job do you have?


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## yankeedoodle (Feb 28, 2018)

Quick question, are any of the people posting on this thread teenagers? I have just turned 20 last week, but don't feel like i graduated from being a "teenager" yet. But, y'all seem to know what you're talking about so I will keep quiet for now. I grew up a little differently than most, as you will see if you look at my post in introductions called "Hey HI from B.C.". I do have alot of real teenager friend s though that wern't as blessed as me. 

FYI: if you read my intro, I did end up getting a welding certificate at RRC in MB, even though I was home schooled. passed at the top of the class.


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## Texaspredatorhu (Sep 15, 2015)

yankeedoodle said:


> Quick question, are any of the people posting on this thread teenagers? I have just turned 20 last week, but don't feel like i graduated from being a "teenager" yet. But, y'all seem to know what you're talking about so I will keep quiet for now. I grew up a little differently than most, as you will see if you look at my post in introductions called "Hey HI from B.C.". I do have alot of real teenager friend s though that wern't as blessed as me.
> 
> FYI: if you read my intro, I did end up getting a welding certificate at RRC in MB, even though I was home schooled. passed at the top of the class.


Congrats! Just to let you know, according to some or one your destined for a life of a broken back and low pay!!!! Good luck in whatever you decide to do!


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## po boy (Jul 12, 2010)

yankeedoodle said:


> Quick question, are any of the people posting on this thread teenagers? I have just turned 20 last week, but don't feel like i graduated from being a "teenager" yet. But, y'all seem to know what you're talking about so I will keep quiet for now. I grew up a little differently than most, as you will see if you look at my post in introductions called "Hey HI from B.C.". I do have alot of real teenager friend s though that wern't as blessed as me.
> 
> FYI: if you read my intro, I did end up getting a welding certificate at RRC in MB, even though I was home schooled. passed at the *top of the class*.


Only Child? 
Sorry, just couldn't resist..and welcome


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## yankeedoodle (Feb 28, 2018)

Ha ha. no,I have 3 brothers


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## yankeedoodle (Feb 28, 2018)

Texaspredatorhu said:


> Congrats! Just to let you know, according to some or one your destined for a life of a broken back and low pay!!!! Good luck in whatever you decide to do!


planing on farming. But knowing how to weld is pretty handy!
Gonna get a ranch in AB and do beef cows and lamb. big market for that in CA right now. Thanks though.


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## gilberte (Sep 25, 2004)

I know there sure seem to be a lot of what many might label dysfunctional young people these days. Perhaps the bad examples are pushed in our face by the media a lot more than the ones who are doing well. I see them all the time and I do have some hope for the future. Now if only we could get them old politicians straightened out............


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## Redlands Okie (Nov 28, 2017)

gilberte said:


> I know there sure seem to be a lot of what many might label dysfunctional young people these days. Perhaps the bad examples are pushed in our face by the media a lot more than the ones who are doing well. I see them all the time and I do have some hope for the future. Now if only we could get them old politicians straightened out............


Hmm the dysfunctional teens are likely to grow out of it. The politicians have grown into it.


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## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

This thread started as an interesting look into why more young people have mental problems, and has morphed into bullying in my opinion. 

And it's everyone's fault, no one is required to respond.


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## GTX63 (Dec 13, 2016)

BULLY: use superior strength or influence to intimidate (someone), typically to force him or her to do what one wants.


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## yankeedoodle (Feb 28, 2018)

Freedom of speech *IS* still a right in North America


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## Steve_S (Feb 25, 2015)

Geez... I didn't bully or insult anyone, just added my observations & thoughts only and generally seems many agree with my observations. 

It's far more complex than people want to see... but if everyone stepped back and put the last 20 years into Perspective & Context plus consideration of what & how our Politico's have behaved, the situation on the planet in general (from conflicts to environment), the regression / "devolution" is various social programs and initiatives including education, healthcare & social responsibilities, the vision would begin to clear up. 

Unfortunately, looking at this thread is a fine example of how & why there won't be any solutions forthcoming. It devolved into name calling and baiting in some instances, arguments over silly semantics and "feelings" rather then being objective & open minded... Polarized & Blame passing deflection and no honest look towards the combination of events, situations, circumstances and the larger picture of what is happening.

ALL THE PARENTS participating in this thread, I ask you to do couple of simple things for a moment.

1) When you were a kid and mom/dad others were arguing when they thought you were not "hearing", do you remember hearing all the things that you weren't "supposed to" " and that which the adults were sure you couldn't / wouldn't hear ? Of Course YOU DID... We ALL did hear the things we shouldn't right .... 
2) Do you think kids growing up today are any different ? They never hear "clean your room" but they always hear what the "dults" don't want them to hear ! even when it's whispered.

Have you actually sat down and asked an honest opinion of what the kids are thinking, how they are feeling about the world around them, how they take the negativity and hostility ? What they think their future will be like and what they would "like" to have as their future ? Ask them what upsets / angers them the most, get them to list the top 5 !* Then be prepared to hear things you won't like and which may freak you out a bit too !* Listen & HEAR them, don't assume and don't attempt to rationalize it either, just hear it, understand it and think what you can do to respond to it... what has to change ?


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## Texaspredatorhu (Sep 15, 2015)

Irish Pixie said:


> This thread started as an interesting look into why more young people have mental problems, and has morphed into bullying in my opinion.
> 
> And it's everyone's fault, no one is required to respond.


I wouldn’t say anyone here bullied anyone. I would say an individual made a broad sweeping statement that those who do not get a college degree will not more or less make a decent living or amount to anything more than cheap labor, when that is as far from the truth as it gets.


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## keenataz (Feb 17, 2009)

It is just another thread that started thoughtfule and within 2 pages veered off to unrecognizeable.

Pity really


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## Evons hubby (Oct 3, 2005)

"Kids these days" is a common complaint going back to Plato. Maybe further. I do see why our current generation might be suicidal though. They are growing up without much to look forward to. All of the good jobs have been shipped over seas, they can't play outside because the environment isn't safe, inside isn't much better. They are too old to cry, and dare not cuss. Boys must not look at girls, much less touch one. I think one of the worst parts that a kid sliding out of the chute today hits the ground roughly $60,000 in debt!


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## wiscto (Nov 24, 2014)

Yea. Sure. I think the smartphone can be a factor, but of course the smartphone wasn't around until 2007. Maybe "iGen" is the product of an increasing in the "Me-First" / "Here go watch whatever movie or play whatever game you want so I can do what I want without having to deal with you" style of parenting.

Maybe they don't know who they are because they were all expecting to be the star of the movie called life. Maybe they think instant gratification is the most important thing in life.

Maybe they didn't know one of their parents and have no sense of family. Maybe they don't know how to be friends because they never learned to share.

Maybe no one told them that getting a job and taking care of themselves would actually feel good in the end, so now they're desperate to make reality fit their "I'm never getting a real job" view of life.

Maybe the parents weren't paying attention so more of them were taken advantage of than previous generations.

Maybe they think they're supposed to be the Michael Phelps of whatever they do, and no one taught them how good it feels to be part of a team, and they're all just getting in each others way.


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## keenataz (Feb 17, 2009)

wiscto said:


> Yea. Sure. I think the smartphone can be a factor, but of course the smartphone wasn't around until 2007. Maybe "iGen" is the product of an increasing in the "Me-First" / "Here go watch whatever movie or play whatever game you want so I can do what I want without having to deal with you" style of parenting.
> 
> Maybe they don't know who they are because they were all expecting to be the star of the movie called life. Maybe they think instant gratification is the most important thing in life.
> 
> ...



I dropped off my son's girlfriend at school today. There may have been 12-15 out front. All but one was looking at phone. Even one group of 5. So I do believe that these things are not helping.

But we had bad parents previously. Also we had kids who wanted to drop out and tune in. IS it more extreme now? Maybe, not sure.

I do like your last line and agree 100%


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## Redlands Okie (Nov 28, 2017)

Sooner or later a person should realize they are accountable and responsible for their actions and the results of those actions. Also many seem to lack the ability to realize life is not going to be fair and you have to deal with the resulting issues. To my mind this seems to be a common issue. It’s a sad situation that we have so many who should have learned about these issues at a very young age and appear to be well on their way to a lifetime of not doing so. Are some of the mental issues so many are dealing with a result of this ?


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## wiscto (Nov 24, 2014)

I think Americans are awesome, but I do think we have problems.

Here's what I feel I saw as a late GenXer making my way from 0 to almost 40.

The oldest GenXers were raised by the "do as I say not as I do", divorce rate overdrive element of the Baby Boomer generation. The theme of that whole half of the X generation was "fight for your right to party." Anybody have any clue how much coke the Baby Boomers and the first wave of GenXers snorted in the 80s? I seem to recall that being a rather astonishing statistic.

The youngest GenXers were raised by the "just let them be kids" Baby Boomers, who were too busy working out their own marital troubles, their third car loan, and the house and all the things they probably couldn't afford to fight back against the dip in mental health or the growing interest in gang culture and violent video games and movies. It was all just too much to deal with. Their solution? Ritalyn. Prozac. Oh you're sad? Here take this pill. Multi-Vitamins and prepared food replaced actual food. Too many parents were too busy to just talk. So when Nirvana, Marilyn Manson, and other older GenXers started singing about how things were kind of messed up and depressing, and gangsta rap started hitting hard, those among the youngest GenXers who had problems jumped right on board and took that a little too much to heart. Case in point is something I mentioned in another thread. The Columbine killers loved the movie Natural Born Killers and talked about it in their twisted journals.

The Millenials were raised by helicopter parents or DVD players and XBoxes, and not nearly enough in between. Not much else to say about it. Even more Ritalyn. Even more Prozac. Even more Adderal. And everybody is special. I guess that one is on the youngest Boomers and oldest Xers.

GenY is being raised by GenX and I guess even the older Millenials, and so far I'm not impressed. Don't have a lot to say about it yet, just seems like GenXers are the biggest helicopter parents yet, if they're bothering to parent at all. It's either or. Helicopter, or don't even bother.


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## MoonRiver (Sep 2, 2007)

Texaspredatorhu said:


> I highly doubt your anywhere near the ball park on that statement. Many have and continue to make a better living than most with college degrees in my line of work. And just out of curiousity, what type of person is “attracted” to this job? Teachers rack up thousands in debt to become a teacher and for little pay, not that I agree with it but I guess that’s the type that job attracts. There are far more teachers today collecting a paycheck than there were 10-15 years ago.


Don't believe that teachers get little pay. For working about 9 or 10 months a year, they are highly paid.


> The BLS reports the median annual salary for high school teachers was $58,030 in 2016. The best-paid 10 percent in the field made approximately $92,920, while the bottom 10 percent made $38,180. USNews


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## MoonRiver (Sep 2, 2007)

Did anyone actually read the article?

It clearly states that teen depression and suicide is related to screen time.


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## keenataz (Feb 17, 2009)

MoonRiver said:


> Did anyone actually read the article?
> 
> It clearly states that teen depression and suicide is related to screen time.



I did. And my response is yes that is part of it, but only part of it. And only to some teens.

Now I am going to go far out with a theory I have. I believe these devises are rewiring our brains. I will use myself as an example. I used to have an incredible attention span (not bragging, just true) I used to be able and sit for hours reading a book, especially a good one. 

Now I read a book on my Ipad so every 10 minutes I can check a news ite, then a few more minutes of reading, check SI. Etc. Also used to be a big baseball fan. Could watch games on tv, commercials and all. Now even when dvring them I can't. I get impatient between pitches.

And I can't think of anything else that has really changed in my life. I have been trained to need that brain chemical hit every 10 minutes or so. Sqadly.


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## MoonRiver (Sep 2, 2007)

Dopamine.


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## Evons hubby (Oct 3, 2005)

MoonRiver said:


> Don't believe that teachers get little pay. For working about 9 or 10 months a year, they are highly paid.


In my state teachers work 170 days a year, their hours are from 8:30-2:30 with an hour out for lunch. Yeah... Five hour days X 170 days = 850 hours X $47 = right at $40,000 which is starting out pay, not counting insurance, retirement and other bennies. Don't want to hear about our poor underpaid teachers.... Ever! Fifty bucks an hour for babysitting? Come on!


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## haypoint (Oct 4, 2006)

Heritagefarm said:


> I have spent no time in either prison or school. My information comes from the numerous disillusioned and depressed young people I talk to on the internet.





Yvonne's hubby said:


> In my state teachers work 170 days a year, their hours are from 8:30-2:30 with an hour out for lunch. Yeah... Five hour days X 170 days = 850 hours X $47 = right at $40,000 which is starting out pay, not counting insurance, retirement and other bennies. Don't want to hear about our poor underpaid teachers.... Ever! Fifty bucks an hour for babysitting? Come on!


Oh, boy! You went and did it now. Get ready to hear about the teacher that spends a fortune on school supplies and how every teacher is there a couple hours early and stays late and takes classes to keep their credentials up.
But in reality, you are spot on and I see lots of teachers, in the morning, pulling in after the school buses and are out, in the afternoon, before the school bus has fully loaded. But don't forget sick days. A friend's wife was a 4th grade teacher for 30 years. The state had an early retirement incentive, but Bob told me, " Sort of hard to give up that $70,000 a year. In a town of just above minimum wage blue collar workers. The only six figure wage earners in that town are school Superintendent, High School Principal and Middle School Principal. The most valuable buildings in town are schools.


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## SLFarmMI (Feb 21, 2013)

haypoint said:


> Oh, boy! You went and did it now. Get ready to hear about the teacher that spends a fortune on school supplies and how every teacher is there a couple hours early and stays late and takes classes to keep their credentials up.
> But in reality, you are spot on and I see lots of teachers, in the morning, pulling in after the school buses and are out, in the afternoon, before the school bus has fully loaded. But don't forget sick days. A friend's wife was a 4th grade teacher for 30 years. The state had an early retirement incentive, but Bob told me, " Sort of hard to give up that $70,000 a year. In a town of just above minimum wage blue collar workers. The only six figure wage earners in that town are school Superintendent, High School Principal and Middle School Principal. The most valuable buildings in town are schools.


Well, if you think teaching is so easy, feel free to go back to school, get qualified and get to work Maybe then you will figure out it’s not the lark in the park that you make it out to be. I won’t even bother to post about what teaching is really like because you and other posters think you know all about it. So, instead I will challenge you to put up or shut up. 

And I would be willing to bet that in your “town of just above minimum wage blue collar workers” the superintendent, principals and teachers are the vast majority of the ones holding the advanced degrees. So, it is not unreasonable for them to command much higher salaries than the general population. Furthermore, in addition to Michigan having a teacher shortage across the state, being that you live in the UP, your area is going to have a much more difficult time finding teachers and administrators than where I work which is more urban. So, your district is going to have to sweeten the pot to get applicants.


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## Redlands Okie (Nov 28, 2017)

Teaching is with out a doubt a job that can be difficult. The pay may not be what it should be. 
I will say that it’s amazing how many people know the pay scales. Borrow money if needed for their education. Go to school for years to be a teacher. Put in the required effort to remain certified. Deal with the students and parents and the school administration. Then complain about the pay they receive for a job they made such effort to get and remain in. It’s not like the pay scale for the job was a surprise or that its required to stay. 
On the other hand many of taxpayers complain about the job the teachers do. But are not willing to fund the process of education as they think it should be done. 
Neither is likely to change


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## Texaspredatorhu (Sep 15, 2015)

SLFarmMI said:


> Well, if you think teaching is so easy, feel free to go back to school, get qualified and get to work Maybe then you will figure out it’s not the lark in the park that you make it out to be. I won’t even bother to post about what teaching is really like because you and other posters think you know all about it. So, instead I will challenge you to put up or shut up.
> 
> And I would be willing to bet that in your “town of just above minimum wage blue collar workers” the superintendent, principals and teachers are the vast majority of the ones holding the advanced degrees. So, it is not unreasonable for them to command much higher salaries than the general population. Furthermore, in addition to Michigan having a teacher shortage across the state, being that you live in the UP, your area is going to have a much more difficult time finding teachers and administrators than where I work which is more urban. So, your district is going to have to sweeten the pot to get applicants.


Here we go with advanced degrees again! I guess the teachers with advanced degrees built the schools too huh?


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## haypoint (Oct 4, 2006)

SLFarmMI said:


> Well, if you think teaching is so easy, feel free to go back to school, get qualified and get to work


I might not like the job they are doing patching pot holes on the highway, but there's no chance I'll give up my job to pitch tar. The old "if you don't like the way I'm doing it, do it yourself" excuse.
This a very hot button topic, that is why I started my comment out that way.
But there are good teachers, some worth every penny. But there are some that could be replaced by a Walmart greeter with little change.
My grandmother and aunt were teachers. As I mentioned earlier, a friend's wife teaches. I have several friends that teach. Is it a difficult job? Sure. But there ar plenty of difficult jobs, many that don't pay $40 an hour.


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## haypoint (Oct 4, 2006)

SLFarmMI said:


> being that you live in the UP, your area is going to have a much more difficult time finding teachers and administrators than where I work which is more urban. So, your district is going to have to sweeten the pot to get applicants.


Actually, Detroit has a far tougher time.


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## Texaspredatorhu (Sep 15, 2015)

haypoint said:


> I might not like the job they are doing patching pot holes on the highway, but there's no chance I'll give up my job to pitch tar. The old "if you don't like the way I'm doing it, do it yourself" excuse.
> This a very hot button topic, that is why I started my comment out that way.
> But there are good teachers, some worth every penny. *But there are some that could be replaced by a Walmart greeter with little change.*
> My grandmother and aunt were teachers. As I mentioned earlier, a friend's wife teaches. I have several friends that teach. Is it a difficult job? Sure. But there ar plenty of difficult jobs, many that don't pay $40 an hour.


I’m mad at you for that comment! I almost spilled my cup of wild turkey over that!

In all honesty my mother is a principal and she works hard as heck. She tried the line on me of having to buy school stuff and I opened a drawer full of tools and said nice try.


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## SLFarmMI (Feb 21, 2013)

haypoint said:


> Actually, Detroit has a far tougher time.


Detroit has a far more difficult time retaining teachers but they are in about the same boat as the rural, up state districts in attracting teachers in the first place.


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## SLFarmMI (Feb 21, 2013)

haypoint said:


> I might not like the job they are doing patching pot holes on the highway, but there's no chance I'll give up my job to pitch tar. The old "if you don't like the way I'm doing it, do it yourself" excuse.
> This a very hot button topic, that is why I started my comment out that way.
> But there are good teachers, some worth every penny. But there are some that could be replaced by a Walmart greeter with little change.
> My grandmother and aunt were teachers. As I mentioned earlier, a friend's wife teaches. I have several friends that teach. Is it a difficult job? Sure. But there ar plenty of difficult jobs, many that don't pay $40 an hour.


It’s a hot button topic because we teachers are tired of doing the best we can at a tough job while people who have no concept of what the job entails sit on the sidelines and tell us how easy our job is and how lazy, overpaid, whatever we are. When exactly did teachers become the enemy?


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## MoonRiver (Sep 2, 2007)

SLFarmMI said:


> It’s a hot button topic because we teachers are tired of doing the best we can at a tough job while people who have no concept of what the job entails sit on the sidelines and tell us how easy our job is and how lazy, overpaid, whatever we are. When exactly did teachers become the enemy?


Answer me this. Why should a teacher with 20 years experience get paid more than a teacher with 10 years experience?

After 3 or 4 years, a teacher doesn't get better with age. In fact, a teacher with 20 years experience just might be out of date. Once someone has learned how to teach and manage a classroom, how does doing the same thing year after year justify a higher salary?


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## Redlands Okie (Nov 28, 2017)

Not the enemy for many. There are lots of jobs that people feel underpaid. Nothing new or particularly special about the situation.


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## SLFarmMI (Feb 21, 2013)

MoonRiver said:


> Answer me this. Why should a teacher with 20 years experience get paid more than a teacher with 10 years experience?
> 
> After 3 or 4 years, a teacher doesn't get better with age. In fact, a teacher with 20 years experience just might be out of date. Once someone has learned how to teach and manage a classroom, how does doing the same thing year after year justify a higher salary?


Because we aren’t doing the same thing year after year. You can’t and do the job well. Every class is different from year to year with different personalities, strengths, weaknesses, learning styles, needs, etc. Even if you have the same kid from year to year (which I tend to have because I teach in the resource room) this year’s version of the kid is different than last year’s version of the same kid. We are also going through additional training every year to upgrade our skills. So your statement that after 3 or 4 years a teacher doesn’t get better just isn’t true.


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## SLFarmMI (Feb 21, 2013)

Redlands Okie said:


> Not the enemy for many. There are lots of jobs that people feel underpaid. Nothing new or particularly special about the situation.


I’m not talking about salary here. I’m talking about the incessant bashing.


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## MoonRiver (Sep 2, 2007)

SLFarmMI said:


> Because we aren’t doing the same thing year after year. You can’t and do the job well. Every class is different from year to year with different personalities, strengths, weaknesses, learning styles, needs, etc. Even if you have the same kid from year to year (which I tend to have because I teach in the resource room) this year’s version of the kid is different than last year’s version of the same kid. We are also going through additional training every year to upgrade our skills. So your statement that after 3 or 4 years a teacher doesn’t get better just isn’t true.


A teacher with 5 or 10 years experience goes through the same as one with 20. You didn't provide a single reason a teacher with 20 years experience is worth more than 1 with 10 years? How is teaching English for 20 years make a teacher worth more than a teacher with 5 years experience teaching English?

I taught for 10 years in my own school. Some of my teachers were worth more than others, but not because of years of experience. Some people are good teachers and some are not. Some can manage a classroom and some cannot. Some can motivate students to learn and some cannot. 

I was probably a better teacher my first year or 2 because I spent so much time preparing for each class.


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## Redlands Okie (Nov 28, 2017)

SLFarmMI said:


> I’m not talking about salary here. I’m talking about the incessant bashing.


Ahh, fair enough then and a very valid point


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

Irish Pixie said:


> This thread started as an interesting look into why more young people have mental problems, and has morphed into bullying in my opinion.


Talk to your buddy in Post #9


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## farmrbrown (Jun 25, 2012)

Heritagefarm said:


> Consider the type of person generally attracted to that type of job. I think that explains most of the problem.





Heritagefarm said:


> Oh yep, we all know trade school jobs pay a fortune! And there's insurance and benefits and it won't break your back! And there's so much room in the economy for that these days! LMAO!!


I'd say there are plenty of signs that people need to get out in the real world more often.


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