# Portland Homeless



## Lisa in WA (Oct 11, 2004)

We stayed outside Portland last night on our way to the coast and were enjoying the greenness and flowers everywhere. 
As we drove around Portland just now on the 205 there were homeless camps and trash everywhere along the highway. I’ve never seen so many before. It wasn’t like this a year and a half ago when we were here.
Betweenn the out of control homeless situation and the continuing violent riots/protests downtown, I wouldn’t want to live here, even if it is beautiful.


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## Lisa in WA (Oct 11, 2004)

across the highway, it was a long line of encampments.


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## Lisa in WA (Oct 11, 2004)




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## Lisa in WA (Oct 11, 2004)

Hard to get pics as you’re speeding by but you get the idea. My own city is struggling with the homeless issue and yesterday there was a “March” there demsnding among other things....an end to single family home zoning.


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

I can't help myself but to ask why?


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## Lisa in WA (Oct 11, 2004)

HDRider said:


> I can't help myself but to ask why?


why they want to do away with single family zoning? 
Because they think if they throw up apartments the homeless won’t be homeless anymore.


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## TripleD (Feb 12, 2011)

Lisa in WA said:


> Hard to get pics as you’re speeding by but you get the idea. My own city is struggling with the homeless issue and yesterday there was a “March” there demsnding among other things....an end to single family home zoning.


They're doing the same thing in Charlotte NC. They are saying it's racial and social injustice...


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## Lisa in WA (Oct 11, 2004)

TripleD said:


> They're doing the same thing in Charlotte NC. They are saying it's racial and social injustice...


It’s mental illness and addiction from what I’ve seen.
The ones who aren’t take the help offered and manage to get rehomed.


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

Lisa in WA said:


> why they want to do away with single family zoning?
> Because they think if they throw up apartments the homeless won’t be homeless anymore.


Sorry, no, my question is why is it allowed to continue?


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

TripleD said:


> They're doing the same thing in Charlotte NC. They are saying it's racial and social injustice...


I have a friend in Charlotte very actively fighting that


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## Lisa in WA (Oct 11, 2004)

HDRider said:


> Sorry, no, my question is why is it allowed to continue?


Because of ultra liberal city governments who allow taxpayers to suffer to allow the mentally ill and addicted to do as they please. It’s not humane at all, in my opinion.


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## po boy (Jul 12, 2010)

TripleD said:


> They're doing the same thing in Charlotte NC. They are saying it's racial and social injustice...


The Feds want to put low-income housing in suburban neighborhoods.
Lisa, I wonder if some of those tents are for the Portland protesters.


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## Evons hubby (Oct 3, 2005)

HDRider said:


> Sorry, no, my question is why is it allowed to continue?


What do you suggest? Put them in cages like Biden does the kids at the border, or just shoot them?


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## Lisa in WA (Oct 11, 2004)

po boy said:


> The Feds want to put low-income housing in suburban neighborhoods.
> Lisa, I wonder if some of those tents are for the Portland protesters.


No idea. Maybe someone here is from the area and knows.


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## TripleD (Feb 12, 2011)

I'm waiting and watching on a lot beside one of dad's rental houses. The set backs don't allow for a new construction. They are asking 10k for it. I sold a lot in the same neighborhood for five bucks and paid all closings cost...


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

Lisa in WA said:


> Because of ultra liberal city governments who allow taxpayers to suffer to allow the mentally ill and addicted to do as they please. It’s not humane at all, in my opinion.


I am not trying to be difficult, but that I know. Why does the "ultra liberal city government" allow the homeless to make their city suck on a epic scale?

Portland is a legendary place. There has to be some reason for the madness.


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

Evons hubby said:


> What do you suggest? Put them in cages like Biden does the kids at the border, or just shoot them?


Are you suggesting the problem cannot be solved?


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## Evons hubby (Oct 3, 2005)

HDRider said:


> Are you suggesting the problem cannot be solved?


I’m going with probably not. We’ve had the homeless among us since biblical times.


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## TripleD (Feb 12, 2011)

Some people don't want to work!!! My sister could hire a 100 @ $15 an hour at China-Mart. She can't find them...


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## Lisa in WA (Oct 11, 2004)

HDRider said:


> I am not trying to be difficult, but that I know. Why does the "ultra liberal city government" allow the homeless to make their city suck on a epic scale?
> 
> Portland is a legendary place. There has to be some reason for the madness.


Beats me.


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## mreynolds (Jan 1, 2015)

HDRider said:


> I am not trying to be difficult, but that I know. Why does the "ultra liberal city government" allow the homeless to make their city suck on a epic scale?
> 
> Portland is a legendary place. There has to be some reason for the madness.


It is simply because they need liberal votes.


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## fireweed farm (Dec 31, 2010)

What exactly have ultra


Lisa in WA said:


> *Because of ultra liberal city governments* who allow taxpayers to suffer to allow the mentally ill and addicted to do as they please. It’s not humane at all, in my opinion.


Agreed. What are ultra conservative cities doing that is better?
I hope not giving one way bus tickets to liberal areas- like was caught happening in Canada.


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

Lisa in WA said:


> Beats me.


Beyond that, why do the officials that seem incapable of solving this problem get reelected?


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## fireweed farm (Dec 31, 2010)

mreynolds said:


> It is simply because they need liberal votes.


Me thinks these people cracked out in tents along the highway don't have enough energy for a noticeable rate of voting. But I know your answer will resonate with conservatives who think liberals inherently stoop so low to cheat.


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

mreynolds said:


> It is simply because they need liberal votes.


You think the voting block of the homeless are great enough in numbers to elect the current office holders?


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

fireweed farm said:


> What exactly have ultra
> 
> Agreed. What are ultra conservative cities doing that is better?
> I hope not giving one way bus tickets to liberal areas- like was caught happening in Canada.


Give us list of the these "ultra conservative cities" with homeless problems matching Portland.


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## Lisa in WA (Oct 11, 2004)

HDRider said:


> Beyond that, why do the officials that seem incapable of solving this problem get reelected?


Dude. Just say what you think or mean.


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## Evons hubby (Oct 3, 2005)

HDRider said:


> Beyond that, why do the officials that seem incapable of solving this problem get reelected?


Again... where is this magical solution that you speak of?


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## Lisa in WA (Oct 11, 2004)

fireweed farm said:


> What exactly have ultra
> 
> Agreed. What are ultra conservative cities doing that is better?
> I hope not giving one way bus tickets to liberal areas- like was caught happening in Canada.


They aren’t doing better. They are doing far worse in my opinion.
Do you live in a city with a high number of homeless camps, shelters, etc?


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## Lisa in WA (Oct 11, 2004)

This just popped up on my feed.








Amid dry conditions, fires tied to Portland's homeless camps up 130% in last year


Portland firefighters have responded to more than 150 calls related to homeless camps this month.




www.kgw.com


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## Evons hubby (Oct 3, 2005)

Lisa in WA said:


> This just popped up on my feed.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


There ya go... burn them out! Problem solved.


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

Lisa in WA said:


> Dude. Just say what you think or mean.


Dudette. I'm simply asking why this exist as it does, in the numbers it is. It is really an unsolvable problem? There has to be a reason. Is poverty there that bad? Are that many mentally ill people congregated there and a couple of other west coast cities. If so, why are they not being treated? Are they mostly drugged out?

My guess it is all three, poverty, drugs, and mental illness, but still, why cannot the officials there fix it?

Sorry if my curiosity upset you. This situation has gone on for a long time now, and it seems to only grow, and get worse.


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## RJ2019 (Aug 27, 2019)

HDRider said:


> Dudette. I'm simply asking why this exist as it does, in the numbers it is. It is really an unsolvable problem? There has to be a reason. Is poverty there that bad? Are that many mentally ill people congregated there and a couple of other west coast cities. If so, why are they not being treated? Are they mostly drugged out?
> 
> My guess it is all three, poverty, drugs, and mental illness, but still, why cannot the officials there fix it?
> 
> Sorry if my curiosity upset you. This situation has gone on for a long time now, and it seems to only grow, and get worse.


Unaffordable housing, caused directly by ultra liberal officials who demand high building fees, and very expensive building codes. You want to stop the homeless issue, start making it a practical and affordable idea to build....

Instead of stopping single family zoning, how about adopting a new owner-builder zoning for hard hit areas?

The extensive oversight of housing in general is suffocating us as a nation. Particularly on the west coast.


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## Lisa in WA (Oct 11, 2004)

I wasn’t upset. 😊
Do east coast cities have this issue? The cost of housing in NYC and Boston has to be equally high but I don’t hear much about the homeless there or in say...Miami Like you do in CA, OR and WA.
if it were just cost of housing we could send them somewhere where the cost of housing is low. Cincinnati, Indianapolis, etc.


HDRider said:


> Dudette. I'm simply asking why this exist as it does, in the numbers it is. It is really an unsolvable problem? There has to be a reason. Is poverty there that bad? Are that many mentally ill people congregated there and a couple of other west coast cities. If so, why are they not being treated? Are they mostly drugged out?
> 
> My guess it is all three, poverty, drugs, and mental illness, but still, why cannot the officials there fix it?
> 
> Sorry if my curiosity upset you. This situation has gone on for a long time now, and it seems to only grow, and get worse.


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## no really (Aug 7, 2013)

It looks like NYC has a big homeless problem


In recent years, homelessness in New York City has reached *the highest levels since the Great Depression of the 1930s*. [1] [2]
In February 2021, there were *55,501 homeless people*, including *17,375 homeless children*, sleeping each night in the New York City municipal shelter system. A record *20,822 single adults* slept in shelters in February 2021.
Over the course of City fiscal year 2020, *122,926 different homeless men, women, and children* slept in the New York City municipal shelter system. This includes *more than 39,300 homeless children*.





__





Basic Facts About Homelessness: New York City - Coalition For The Homeless


The Coalition for the Homeless provides up-to-date information on New York City's homeless population. ...




www.coalitionforthehomeless.org


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## Evons hubby (Oct 3, 2005)

HDRider said:


> Dudette. I'm simply asking why this exist as it does, in the numbers it is. It is really an unsolvable problem? There has to be a reason. Is poverty there that bad? Are that many mentally ill people congregated there and a couple of other west coast cities. If so, why are they not being treated? Are they mostly drugged out?
> 
> My guess it is all three, poverty, drugs, and mental illness, but still, why cannot the officials there fix it?
> 
> Sorry if my curiosity upset you. This situation has gone on for a long time now, and it seems to only grow, and get worse.


Poverty has very little to do with it. The dependence on government is the basic culprit.


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## JeffreyD (Dec 27, 2006)

RJ2019 said:


> Unaffordable housing, caused directly by ultra liberal officials who demand high building fees, and very expensive building codes. You want to stop the gineless issue, start making it a practical and affordable idea to build....
> 
> Instead of stopping single family zoning, how about adopting a new owner-builder zoning for hard hit areas?
> 
> The extensive oversight of housing in general is suffocating us as a nation. Particularly on the west coast.


Here in California, you can't live on your own property if you don't have an approved house, approved water supply($40k) and a whole slew of other costly requirements. To build out an empty lot to code would cost around $100,000. Not including the house! We've spent billions on the homeless and have more than ever. Crime is skyrocketing, disease is skyrocketing. 
Liberals have sent more than 30 billion to prisoners through the EDD. EDD is an epic failure here and the head ran off to be in the Biden administration so she wouldn't be held accountable.


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## NRA_guy (Jun 9, 2015)

Haul them to Mexico and dump them out: 1 for 1 for every illegal immigrant that we let in.


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

JeffreyD said:


> Here in California, you can't live on your own property if you don't have an approved house, approved water supply($40k) and a whole slew of other costly requirements. To build out an empty lot to code would cost around $100,000. Not including the house! We've spent billions on the homeless and have more than ever. Crime is skyrocketing, disease is skyrocketing.
> Liberals have sent more than 30 billion to prisoners through the EDD. EDD is an epic failure here and the head ran off to be in the Biden administration so she wouldn't be held accountable.


Now we are getting somewhere.

The regs have pushed people onto the street


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## TripleD (Feb 12, 2011)

Evons hubby said:


> Poverty has very little to do with it. The dependence on government is the basic culprit.


On this we agree!!!


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## mreynolds (Jan 1, 2015)

HDRider said:


> You think the voting block of the homeless are great enough in numbers to elect the current office holders?





fireweed farm said:


> Me thinks these people cracked out in tents along the highway don't have enough energy for a noticeable rate of voting. But I know your answer will resonate with conservatives who think liberals inherently stoop so low to cheat.


No, I dont think the homeless vote much. I have seen voting progressives demand free needles and get mad about when politicians try and move them. So liberal cites will do nothing and hope that they will still get voted in next term.


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## TripleD (Feb 12, 2011)

TripleD said:


> On this we agree!!!


Dad had one plus a nephew had one who quit their job last month. Section 8 was going to cut them off plus the day care. Never ending cycle ... Stay home and stay broke!!!


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## NRA_guy (Jun 9, 2015)

Maybe the government should re-start the Civilian Conservation Corps like FDR did when Americans were starving. If the government is going to feed, clothe and shelter them, those who are able should be required to perform some service that benefits the country. 

Let them pick cotton or work in wheat fields or orchards or factories or pick up litter and mow grass on the road right-of-way for minimum wage. (Yeah, the labor unions would have a fit.)

We might discover that many of those homeless folks suddenly become able to support themselves at real jobs. 

I assure you that the demand for free food will increase to exceed whatever supply exists.

I started feeding a few birds in my back yard. Soon I had more birds and I added more feeders and bought sunflower seeds faster.

Soon raccoons started coming and I "had" to buy them food. The poor things were hungry and were having babies.

Then I got more raccoons and a neighbor's dog. 

Then deer and chipmunks and a possum started coming and I had to buy feed faster.

Just like other animals, homeless humans will continue to increase in numbers as long as someone is willing to supply them with free food.

So, if you want more homeless folks, just feed and shelter the ones you have now. More will come.


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## stars at night (Mar 12, 2021)

HDRider said:


> Are you suggesting the problem cannot be solved?


Iknow in DC it polly won't be solved. When I lived there the homeless were everywhere, all men and mostly mentally ill. They actually don't want a good place to live and thy will NOT go into shelters in the winter. Everything they have gets stolen. Each man has his place on the street and on the grates. It's become a way of life there, people accept it. Do not give them money....goes to booze, It;s been this way since the 70's (Vietnam War) and is not likely to change.


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## TripleD (Feb 12, 2011)

NRA_guy said:


> Maybe the government should re-start the Civilian Conservation Corps like FDR did when Americans were starving. If the government is going to feed, clothe and shelter them, those who are able should be required to perform some service that benefits the country.
> 
> Let them pick cotton or work in wheat fields or orchards or factories or pick up litter and mow grass on the road right-of-way for minimum wage. (Yeah, the labor unions would have a fit.)
> 
> ...


My uncle preached that to us back in the 70's. He was ex military. Taught me how to shoot doves. I carried him to the grave three years ago. Some of the best times were learning from him!!!


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## RJ2019 (Aug 27, 2019)

HDRider said:


> Now we are getting somewhere.
> 
> The regs have pushed people onto the street


I've been saying that for years. The houses burn down in fires, the codes and costs to rebuild them are insane, and then we sit around and scratch our heads and wonder why there's a homeless problem....lol


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

mreynolds said:


> No, I dont think the homeless vote much. I have seen voting progressives demand free needles and get mad about when politicians try and move them. So liberal cites will do nothing and hope that they will still get voted in next term.


Unconfuse me. What was your point?


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## stars at night (Mar 12, 2021)

Evons hubby said:


> Poverty has very little to do with it. The dependence on government is the basic culprit.


most of the homeless men in DC have NO income. At all No family, just handouts from diffrent places. If they did have money they'd spend it on booze, not so much drugs. The cops know them, the churches know them and other giving places. If they have any money due them they have no idea how yo get or who to go to. Trust me on this


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

NRA_guy said:


> Maybe the government should re-start the Civilian Conservation Corps like FDR did when Americans were starving


That is a good idea


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## hiddensprings (Aug 6, 2009)

While I understand there are some people/families that are homeless and want to be able to rejoin society, the vast majority of homeless are there because of addition, mental illness, or simply want to be homeless. The last one, simply wanting to be homeless, I witnessed 1st hand when I sat on the board of a non-profit who's mission was to get veterans off the streets. We had 10 homes, able to house at least 6 veterans in each. We were NEVER filled. The guys/gals would come for a free meal and then leave. I assume some had mental illness but others I spoke with just didn't want to be connected to anything or anyone. They said they were happy the way they were. Free, able to go and do whatever they want without any connections. There are so many non-profits that supposedly help the homeless, but that's not working either since the number of homeless seems to continue to grow.


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## georger (Sep 15, 2003)

I could answer, but then I’d be censored and probably tossed out.


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## RJ2019 (Aug 27, 2019)

hiddensprings said:


> While I understand there are some people/families that are homeless and want to be able to rejoin society, the vast majority of homeless are there because of addition, mental illness, or simply want to be homeless. The last one, simply wanting to be homeless, I witnessed 1st hand when I sat on the board of a non-profit who's mission was to get veterans off the streets. We had 10 homes, able to house at least 6 veterans in each. We were NEVER filled. The guys/gals would come for a free meal and then leave. I assume some had mental illness but others I spoke with just didn't want to be connected to anything or anyone. They said they were happy the way they were. Free, able to go and do whatever they want without any connections. There are so many non-profits that supposedly help the homeless, but that's not working either since the number of homeless seems to continue to grow.


I actually really respect how some of these people just flat out refuse to play by society's rules. The few that are like this have realized how utterly pointless it all is. I actually respect that. Be the change you want to see. I've said it before, when I retire I wouldn't mind being homeless.


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## TripleD (Feb 12, 2011)

RJ2019 said:


> I actually really respect how some of these people just flat out refuse to play by society's rules. The few that are like this have realized how utterly pointless it all is. I actually respect that. Be the change you want to see. I've said it before, when I retire I wouldn't mind being homeless.


Why after you retire?


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## RJ2019 (Aug 27, 2019)

TripleD said:


> Why after you retire?


Personal reasons.


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## Wyobuckaroo (Dec 30, 2011)

Me thinks these people cracked out in tents along the highway don't have enough energy for a noticeable rate of voting.
You think the voting block of the homeless are great enough in numbers to elect the current office holders?
+ + +
Is some of this why they are pushing mail in and other voting options rather than going to a poling place ??
Z Z Z
Do east coast cities have this issue? The cost of housing in NYC and Boston has to be equally high but I don’t hear much about the homeless there or in say...Miami Like you do in CA, OR and WA.
+ + + +
It seems if you follow weather patterns, especially winter weather... That will answer most of your question why most are where they are..
Z Z Z 
Reinstate the CCC that FDR put in place...
If the government is going to feed, clothe and shelter them, those who are able should be required to perform some service that benefits the country.

Let them pick cotton or work in wheat fields or orchards or factories or pick up litter and mow grass on the road right-of-way for minimum wage. (Yeah, the labor unions would have a fit.) 
+ + +
Here prisoners used to do some of these jobs.. Kept there own gardens and such to feed themselves.. The "do goods" got it considered cruel and unusual punishment.. So they just sit and think of ways to cause trouble among one another..


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## TripleD (Feb 12, 2011)

RJ2019 said:


> Personal reasons.


Monthly payments to a debit card go a long way. Head on out now if you want the freedom 🙂...


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## Evons hubby (Oct 3, 2005)

HDRider said:


> That is a good idea


It’s no better today than it was when fdr hatched it.


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## Evons hubby (Oct 3, 2005)

hiddensprings said:


> While I understand there are some people/families that are homeless and want to be able to rejoin society, the vast majority of homeless are there because of addition, mental illness, or simply want to be homeless. The last one, simply wanting to be homeless, I witnessed 1st hand when I sat on the board of a non-profit who's mission was to get veterans off the streets. We had 10 homes, able to house at least 6 veterans in each. We were NEVER filled. The guys/gals would come for a free meal and then leave. I assume some had mental illness but others I spoke with just didn't want to be connected to anything or anyone. They said they were happy the way they were. Free, able to go and do whatever they want without any connections. There are so many non-profits that supposedly help the homeless, but that's not working either since the number of homeless seems to continue to grow.


As long as others feed them why bother being productive? Someone else mentioned feeding a couple birds... Hoover warned fdr “if you start feeding a few now you’ll have to feed them all forever.” Here we are, nearly a century later.... covered up with the lazy irresponsible dregs to feed.


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## hiddensprings (Aug 6, 2009)

Evons hubby said:


> As long as others feed them why bother being productive? Someone else mentioned feeding a couple birds... Hoover warned fdr “if you start feeding a few now you’ll have to feed them all forever.” Here we are, nearly a century later.... covered up with the lazy irresponsible dregs to feed.


I agree! I often tell my husband, usually around tax time, that if I sent money to "Feed the Children", I'd at least get a picture of the child I'm supporting. In the U.S. taxpayers pay for the worthless and lazy who aren't even grateful enough to say thank you, they simply keep sticking their hands out wanting more.


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## cannonfoddertfc (Dec 20, 2020)

Shut off the welfare valve. When the free stuff stops coming, the leeches will have a choice, work or starve... Either way, the problem is solved. 
And any existing assistance paid with my taxes need to require a drug test and mandatory birth control. I have to piss in a cup to earn it, they need to piss in a cup to steal it.
I will help anyone that helps themselves but it should be my choice not the .gov taking my money and handing it out without my oversight.


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## Rodeo's Bud (Apr 10, 2020)

HDRider said:


> Now we are getting somewhere.
> 
> The regs have pushed people onto the street


Here qe have strict city limit laws. No expansion into bordering areas. So property is artificially limited and becomes expensive.

Also, the governments in the big cities are progressive. So they give things away and don't prosecute normal things like peeing in public, taking a dump in the street or minor burglary, which can be up to 950 dollars worth of property.

So they make it easy to be homeless with little to no consequences to crime.

Also, Oregon just made personal use amounts of hard drugs legal.

So the real answer is they don't want to stop it. I honestly don't know why.


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## fireweed farm (Dec 31, 2010)

RJ2019 said:


> Unaffordable housing, caused directly by ultra liberal officials who demand high building fees, and very expensive building codes. You want to stop the homeless issue, start making it a practical and affordable idea to build....
> 
> Instead of stopping single family zoning, how about adopting a new owner-builder zoning for hard hit areas?
> 
> The extensive oversight of housing in general is suffocating us as a nation. Particularly on the west coast.


You are dreaming if you think softening anything to do with building codes will change the homeless numbers.
Tear down homes (the building lot) can easily cost a million dollars. 
I'm not saying bureaucracy and BS are not issues with building- but people are quite happy to suffer this to live in a great climate close to beaches/mountains/views and things to do that don't include just going to the mall.


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## fireweed farm (Dec 31, 2010)

JeffreyD said:


> Here in California, you can't live on your own property if you don't have an approved house, approved water supply($40k) and a whole slew of other costly requirements. To build out an empty lot to code would cost around $100,000. Not including the house! We've spent billions on the homeless and have more than ever. Crime is skyrocketing, disease is skyrocketing.
> Liberals have sent more than 30 billion to prisoners through the EDD. EDD is an epic failure here and the head ran off to be in the Biden administration so she wouldn't be held accountable.


When are you leaving?


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## Farmerjack41 (Jun 6, 2017)

If you really want to see the homeless in Portland, take I 5 north from I 82, the area around every off ramp and on ramp will be completely packed full of tents and makeshift tents. That will really open your eyes.

Going to the Oregon coast in about three weeks. Will go down 97 to Redmond, take Highway 126 to Eugene, continue on 126 to the coast. Going to Cos Bay, staying at the Mill Casino RV. Park. I do expect to see a number of homeless camps in the Eugene area tho. That town is about as liberal as you can get.


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## fireweed farm (Dec 31, 2010)

Lisa in WA said:


> They aren’t doing better. They are doing far worse in my opinion.
> Do you live in a city with a high number of homeless camps, shelters, etc?


No. Small town where people find places including tiny home type situations and for the most part can continue working if not on disability.
But Vancouver which I visit a few times per year does have a homeless problem. Between drugs and lack of affordable housing it's quite serious. Many of the homeless come from cities across Canada which have a much less than hospitable winter climate. Living is easier on the west coast.
Which is why I expect the same is similar to LA, Portland and Seattle- if you ask the homeless where they originate- it likely is out of state.


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## JeffreyD (Dec 27, 2006)

fireweed farm said:


> When are you leaving?


I already have! I moved to Arizona but still have a home and business in California. The majority of our business manufacturing was moved to Arizona a few years ago. It was a wise decision...


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## fireweed farm (Dec 31, 2010)

HDRider said:


> Give us list of the these "ultra conservative cities" with homeless problems matching Portland.


You missed the point. The question is what do conservative cities do to keep homeless encampments and drug addicts away from town? Do the junkies move to the west coast? Or do conservatives have a better system for their homeless that liberals can learn from?
Me thinks homeless move left where the grass is greener and winter is easier.


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## fireweed farm (Dec 31, 2010)

JeffreyD said:


> I already have! I moved to Arizona but still have a home and business in California. The majority of our business manufacturing was moved to Arizona a few years ago. It was a wise decision...


You say "Here in California..." then claim to live in Arizona.
Do whatever suits you. But I do find it interesting when someone whinges as much as you do about California then turns out to have done the equivalent of chaining themselves to a dead hooker.... but hey- that's how some keep their existence exciting.


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## Tom Horn (Feb 10, 2021)

Lisa in WA said:


> We stayed outside Portland last night on our way to the coast and were enjoying the greenness and flowers everywhere.
> As we drove around Portland just now on the 205 there were homeless camps and trash everywhere along the highway. I’ve never seen so many before. It wasn’t like this a year and a half ago when we were here.
> Betweenn the out of control homeless situation and the continuing violent riots/protests downtown, I wouldn’t want to live here, even if it is beautiful.


I agree Portland is a pretty place, I remember the blackberries growing everywhere. I worked in the Rose City in the early 2000's on Basin Avenue on Swan Island. I've flown into PDX many times and driven out of Portland, Northbound on 5 for Canada, South on 5 to the port at Long Beach, CA and East on 84 through the Columbia Gorge.

I enjoyed my time out there. Got a chance to ride the light rail and take in the Saturday Market and accompanied a lady friend to a rather different festival out West of Portland. It was kind of a mish-mash of renaissance festival/new age festival. Folks dressed up in all kinds of costumes and some of the ladies opted for body paint as their only clothing from the waist up.

Lots of Hippies in Portland.

And the whole time I was homeless.

But I had a job.

And I didn't ask nobody for nothin'.


----------



## CKelly78z (Jul 16, 2017)

Very likely the "homeless encampments" were actually staging areas for paid protestors who travel from city to city furthering the left's agenda.


----------



## Cornhusker (Mar 20, 2003)

HDRider said:


> I am not trying to be difficult, but that I know. Why does the "ultra liberal city government" allow the homeless to make their city suck on a epic scale?
> 
> Portland is a legendary place. There has to be some reason for the madness.


Because liberals don't care about people?


----------



## GTX63 (Dec 13, 2016)

_"Give us list of the these "ultra conservative cities" with homeless problems matching Portland."_



fireweed farm said:


> *You missed the point.* The question is what do conservative cities do to keep homeless encampments and drug addicts away from town? Do the junkies move to the west coast? Or do conservatives have a better system for their homeless that liberals can learn from?
> Me thinks homeless move left where the grass is greener and winter is easier.


That list seems like a pretty big gorilla in a shrinking room.


----------



## Cornhusker (Mar 20, 2003)

fireweed farm said:


> Me thinks these people cracked out in tents along the highway don't have enough energy for a noticeable rate of voting. But I know your answer will resonate with conservatives who think liberals inherently stoop so low to cheat.


They shouldn't be voting without a verifiable address, but it happened in 2020


----------



## GTX63 (Dec 13, 2016)

Tent cities are a melting pot just like anywhere else, with many or most of the inhabitants running along a similar path.
Maybe the more control an entity like the government has over the people, the less they really intend to do more than "manage them". In other words, you can go along with the program, or you can opt not to participate, but fewer of you in the future will be opting out into the environment you exist in now.


----------



## Cornhusker (Mar 20, 2003)

no really said:


> It looks like NYC has a big homeless problem
> 
> 
> In recent years, homelessness in New York City has reached *the highest levels since the Great Depression of the 1930s*. [1] [2]
> ...


Far left radicals in office create environments like that with their ultra left, power hungry policies.
From what I hear, it's getting worse all the time.


----------



## NRA_guy (Jun 9, 2015)

fireweed farm said:


> You missed the point. The question is what do conservative cities do to keep homeless encampments and drug addicts away from town? Do the junkies move to the west coast? Or do conservatives have a better system for their homeless that liberals can learn from?
> Me thinks homeless move left where the grass is greener and winter is easier.


Interesting issue:

Has anybody ever done a statistical survey of the homeless to see where they came from or if they are locally grown?

I'd also like to see statistics on:

1. Race
2. Gender
3. Age
4. How long they have been homeless
5. Why they are homeless
6. How much their support (food and shelter) costs and how much it costs taxpayers
7. Drug use---past and present (and if currently using drugs, where do they get them and who is paying for them)


----------



## NRA_guy (Jun 9, 2015)

Serious questions that I wonder about:

What happens when these homeless people are injured or become seriously ill in large numbers?

What happens when they start to die in increasing numbers?

Seems like the end game, as the homeless get older in massive numbers, will overload the medical and body disposal systems.


----------



## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

Racial Disparities in Homelessness in the United States


Most minority groups in the United States experience homelessness at higher rates than Whites, and therefore make up a disproportionate share of the homeless population: African Americans make up more than 40% of the homeless population, but represent 13 percent […]




endhomelessness.org


----------



## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

I thought you joined a band


----------



## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

An Outlaw band


----------



## fireweed farm (Dec 31, 2010)

GTX63 said:


> _"Give us list of the these "ultra conservative cities" with homeless problems matching Portland."_
> 
> 
> 
> That list seems like a pretty big gorilla in a shrinking room.


Again, nobody asked for said list. Feel free to read the question I have asked twice. 
Looks to me like conservatives blame liberals, no proof required.

Intelligent debate requires proof not “likes”.


----------



## fireweed farm (Dec 31, 2010)

Cornhusker said:


> They shouldn't be voting without a verifiable address, but it happened in 2020


🥱


----------



## Evons hubby (Oct 3, 2005)

fireweed farm said:


> Again, nobody asked for said list. Feel free to read the question I have asked twice.
> Looks to me like conservatives blame liberals, no proof required.
> 
> Intelligent debate requires proof not “likes”.


The homeless do seem to be congregated in the more liberal areas.


----------



## GTX63 (Dec 13, 2016)

fireweed farm said:


> Again, nobody asked for said list. Feel free to read the question I have asked twice.
> Looks to me like conservatives blame liberals, no proof required.
> 
> Intelligent debate requires proof not “likes”.


It requires responding rather than deflecting too.


----------



## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

Homeless people fall into two categories that affect where they gather. Sheltered and unsheltered. Unsheltered are more visible and often in areas with more temperate climates. Those with substance abuse and mental health issues are also more visible because access to shelters is more limited because of their behavior. and often PSTD. This also make it more difficult to place them in low cost housing for the homeless.

My nephew is a Psychiatrist who works exclusively with those with substance abuse and mental health issues that are homeless and in skid row areas of a large city. There is no one size fit answer and the political leaning of a location has no bearing on the number of homelessness.


----------



## GTX63 (Dec 13, 2016)

Your last sentence has been proven wrong more times than can be counted.


----------



## Evons hubby (Oct 3, 2005)

painterswife said:


> Homeless people fall into two categories that affect where they gather. Sheltered and unsheltered. Unsheltered are more visible and often in areas with more temperate climates. Those with substance abuse and mental health issues are also more visible because access to shelters is more limited because of their behavior. and often PSTD. This also make it more difficult to place them in low cost housing for the homeless.
> 
> My nephew is a Psychiatrist who works exclusively with those with substance abuse and mental health issues that are homeless and in skid row areas of a large city. There is no one size fit answer and the political leaning of a location has no bearing on the number of homelessness.


It would seem that areas with more free stuff would be an attraction.


----------



## NRA_guy (Jun 9, 2015)

painterswife said:


> Racial Disparities in Homelessness in the United States
> 
> 
> Most minority groups in the United States experience homelessness at higher rates than Whites, and therefore make up a disproportionate share of the homeless population: African Americans make up more than 40% of the homeless population, but represent 13 percent […]
> ...


I'm quite surprised at that. I figured that white (men) would make up 95% of the homeless population.

But we don't have any around where I live so I never see any unless I travel.


----------



## Danaus29 (Sep 12, 2005)

Nearly all the beggars claiming to be homeless here are slightly younger than middle age white men. Most of them wear brand new Nike shoes.

The one black man that was homeless (had a story written about him in the local newspaper) has since moved into a shelter home up north and no longer sings hymns to people visiting the post office. I liked him, he always made me smile.


----------



## JeffreyD (Dec 27, 2006)

fireweed farm said:


> You say "Here in California..." then claim to live in Arizona.
> Do whatever suits you. But I do find it interesting when someone whinges as much as you do about California then turns out to have done the equivalent of chaining themselves to a dead hooker.... but hey- that's how some keep their existence exciting.


It was about our employees. Our accounting department stayed in California because i love them and didn't want to lose their expertise and force them out of a job. Their worth every penny. You wouldn't have wanted us to fire them now would you? We travel back and forth, should i ask your permission first? I don't do hookers dead or alive. Maybe you do and thats why you mentioned it?
I do despise California. I was born and raised there.
I loved my beautiful state. Now, after being controlled by liberals, its gone to hell. Tens of thousands of vagrants, crime is skyrocketing (look up the name Gascon) drug paraphernalia is everywhere including sand boxes at the parks, urine and feces everywhere, billions spent on the homeless vagrants and we have more now than ever, an exceptionally useless governor who wont take the responsibility for his epic failures (Pelosi's nephew).
Insane tax rates that keep people ftom being able to afford their own homes.
That's just the beginning....


----------



## Lisa in WA (Oct 11, 2004)

NRA_guy said:


> I'm quite surprised at that. I figured that white (men) would make up 95% of the homeless population.
> 
> But we don't have any around where I live so I never see any unless I travel.


They are almost exclusively white here.


----------



## JeffreyD (Dec 27, 2006)

fireweed farm said:


> Again, nobody asked for said list. Feel free to read the question I have asked twice.
> Looks to me like conservatives blame liberals, no proof required.
> 
> Intelligent debate requires proof not “likes”.


Liberals are about feelz. They have to give away what others worked hard for in order for them to feelz better about themselves. Vagrants love Liberals because of free stuff. That means they can do whatever they want and get all the benefits of not having to pay for any of it.
There's you answer right there. You probably don't agree, but its the truth. We see it daily...


----------



## Lisa in WA (Oct 11, 2004)

fireweed farm said:


> You say "Here in California..." then claim to live in Arizona.
> Do whatever suits you. But I do find it interesting when someone whinges as much as you do about California then turns out to have done the equivalent of chaining themselves to a dead hooker.... but hey- that's how some keep their existence exciting.


That’s rather silly.
Im “here” in Oregon though I “claim” to live in Washington.
And sometimes I say I’m “here in Idaho” because I live there in the summer.
Does that make me a liar about where I live?
You do know that CA and AZ are next door to each other, right?


----------



## mreynolds (Jan 1, 2015)

JeffreyD said:


> It was about our employees. Our accounting department stayed in California because i love them and didn't want to lose their expertise and force them out of a job. Their worth every penny. You wouldn't have wanted us to fire them now would you? We travel back and forth, should i ask your permission first? I don't do hookers dead or alive. Maybe you do and thats why you mentioned it?
> I do despise California. I was born and raised there.
> I loved my beautiful state. Now, after being controlled by liberals, its gone to hell. Tens of thousands of vagrants, crime is skyrocketing (look up the name Gascon) drug paraphernalia is everywhere including sand boxes at the parks, urine and feces everywhere, billions spent on the homeless vagrants and we have more now than ever, an exceptionally useless governor who wont take the responsibility for his epic failures (Pelosi's nephew).
> Insane tax rates that keep people ftom being able to afford their own homes.
> That's just the beginning....


Maybe Caitlyn Jenner will be the new Governor soon. I hear she is using ex Trump aides to help get her elected.


----------



## JeffreyD (Dec 27, 2006)

NRA_guy said:


> I'm quite surprised at that. I figured that white (men) would make up 95% of the homeless population.
> 
> But we don't have any around where I live so I never see any unless I travel.


That is certainly the case here in California. Most vagrants are white males. Next up are Hispanics. But white males are by far the most prevalent. We used to take hundreds of blankets to skid row every year. We have a clue...


----------



## JeffreyD (Dec 27, 2006)

mreynolds said:


> Maybe Caitlyn Jenner will be the new Governor soon. I hear she is using ex Trump aides to help get her elected.


Ugh....


----------



## mreynolds (Jan 1, 2015)

JeffreyD said:


> That is certainly the case here in California. Most vagrants are white males. Next up are Hispanics. But white males are by far the most prevalent. We used to take hundreds of blankets to skid row every year. We have a clue...


Same here, I have not seen one black homeless anywhere in my state that I have traveled to. And I have been all over this state. 

Maybe only the whites are the panhandlers? I don't want to call that article false but I do know the are a lot more white homeless than what they W saying in there.


----------



## fireweed farm (Dec 31, 2010)

Lisa in WA said:


> That’s rather silly.
> Im “here” in Oregon though I “claim” to live in Washington.
> And sometimes I say I’m “here in Idaho” because I live there in the summer.
> Does that make me a liar about where I live?
> You do know that CA and AZ are next door to each other, right?


I do. And they are extremely different. Which is why i made note.


----------



## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

The article I posted is about homelessness numbers. It is not about vagrants or panhandlers or which race is more visible. or in a city.


----------



## Cornhusker (Mar 20, 2003)

Lisa in WA said:


> They are almost exclusively white here.


So maybe it's not a race thing?


----------



## Lisa in WA (Oct 11, 2004)

painterswife said:


> The article I posted is about homelessness numbers. It is not about vagrants or panhandlers or which race is more visible. or in a city.


Yes. 
it’s words on a page.


----------



## Cornhusker (Mar 20, 2003)

fireweed farm said:


> Again, nobody asked for said list. Feel free to read the question I have asked twice.
> Looks to me like conservatives blame liberals, no proof required.
> 
> Intelligent debate requires proof not “likes”.


Got proof?


----------



## Fishindude (May 19, 2015)

My hometown (and many other communities) used to have a large state mental hospital where the mentally ill lived. This was a very large scale operation with several thousand residents, and hundreds of employees. It was also a full scale working farm that produced all of it's own food, plus a surplus which they sold. They had award winning livestock herds, huge gardens, beef, hogs, poultry, eggs, you name it. This gave all of the residents that were physically capable something to occupy their time and it also helped the place run a little closer to self sufficiently.

Somewhere around the early 60's the do gooder politicians stepped in and said this was unfair and unsafe to make these residents work and by producing all of that food they were eliminating opportunities for private business to sell to the facility. They shut down the entire farm operation and eliminated lots of staff, turned the reasonably capable residents loose on the streets, and incarcerated the worst residents, kept them indoors and drugged up to control them. Much of the current facility looks like a jail.

This place now only houses the worst of the worst, probably a couple hundred vs several thousand, and there are a lot of mentally ill individuals out on the streets. A large percentage of your current homeless population would have had a place to live, some work they could be proud of, three hots and a cot, etc. under the old system.


----------



## TripleD (Feb 12, 2011)

Fishindude said:


> My hometown (and many other communities) used to have a large state mental hospital where the mentally ill lived. This was a very large scale operation with several thousand residents, and hundreds of employees. It was also a full scale working farm that produced all of it's own food, plus a surplus which they sold. They had award winning livestock herds, huge gardens, beef, hogs, poultry, eggs, you name it. This gave all of the residents that were physically capable something to occupy their time and it also helped the place run a little closer to self sufficiently.
> 
> Somewhere around the early 60's the do gooder politicians stepped in and said this was unfair and unsafe to make these residents work and by producing all of that food they were eliminating opportunities for private business to sell to the facility. They shut down the entire farm operation and eliminated lots of staff, turned the reasonably capable residents loose on the streets, and incarcerated the worst residents, kept them indoors and drugged up to control them. Much of the current facility looks like a jail.
> 
> This place now only houses the worst of the worst, probably a couple hundred vs several thousand, and there are a lot of mentally ill individuals out on the streets. A large percentage of your current homeless population would have had a place to live, some work they could be proud of, three hots and a cot, etc. under the old system.


Every single family home we rent is allowed to plant a garden. I've seen three in 30 years. Too lazy or not needed comes to mind...


----------



## Redlands Okie (Nov 28, 2017)

NRA_guy said:


> Serious questions that I wonder about:
> 
> What happens when these homeless people are injured or become seriously ill in large numbers?
> 
> ...


Almost sounds like a pandemic ..............


----------



## NRA_guy (Jun 9, 2015)

Fishindude said:


> My hometown (and many other communities) used to have a large state mental hospital where the mentally ill lived. This was a very large scale operation with several thousand residents, and hundreds of employees. It was also a full scale working farm that produced all of it's own food, plus a surplus which they sold. They had award winning livestock herds, huge gardens, beef, hogs, poultry, eggs, you name it. This gave all of the residents that were physically capable something to occupy their time and it also helped the place run a little closer to self sufficiently.
> 
> Somewhere around the early 60's the do gooder politicians stepped in and said this was unfair and unsafe to make these residents work and by producing all of that food they were eliminating opportunities for private business to sell to the facility. They shut down the entire farm operation and eliminated lots of staff, turned the reasonably capable residents loose on the streets, and incarcerated the worst residents, kept them indoors and drugged up to control them. Much of the current facility looks like a jail.
> 
> This place now only houses the worst of the worst, probably a couple hundred vs several thousand, and there are a lot of mentally ill individuals out on the streets. A large percentage of your current homeless population would have had a place to live, some work they could be proud of, three hots and a cot, etc. under the old system.


The giant Mississippi penitentiary at Parchman used to do the same thing: The prisoners raised nearly all of the food the prisoners ate, and they raised tons of cotton that was sold for income to defray the cost of incarcerating them.

Big farmers and grocery stores didn't like the government competing with them and liberal lawyers didn't like for prisoners to work; so it was eliminated.

Many of the prisoners actually preferred to get outside and work. And by working, I think they earned early release and learned a trade that they could use to earn a living once they got out. Can't have that in today's leftist government.


----------



## muleskinner2 (Oct 7, 2007)

Every year one or two homeless show up in the small town where I pick up my mail. The town has a free campground, with a central water hydrant and a porta potty. The only Cafe in town will feed them for a few days free of charge. We have developed a novel way of moving them along. When they show up at the Cafe each morning for their free breakfast, they offer them a job. They soon take umbrage at such rude behavior and move on.


----------



## NRA_guy (Jun 9, 2015)

We had an interesting homeless story in our local newspaper back in January 2018:

---------------------------
*Lower homeless numbers*
_January 26, 2018

Thursday’s Point-in-Time Count of homeless people in Warren County (Mississippi) found only 46 homeless people in the area.

“The numbers were down drastically,” said K______ S_____. In 2017, the Point in Time Count estimated 175 homeless people were in the area.
_
_*The annual Point in Time Count is required by the U.S. Department of Housing and Urban Development to determine funding for programs local agencies use to help the homeless. The amount of funding Warren County receives depends on the number of homeless in the area*._
-------------------------------

I had never heard of the required "Annual Point-in-Time" homeless count; so I looked it up:
-------------------------------
_The Point-in-Time (PIT) count is a count of sheltered and unsheltered people experiencing homelessness that HUD requires each Continuum of Care (CoC) nationwide to conduct in the last 10 days of January each year._
--------------------------------

Point-in-Time Count

So . . . Federal money comes to local governments to pay for the homeless support.

We don't ever read about that in the national news.


----------



## wr (Aug 10, 2003)

It's hard to reduce homeless numbers when there are so many different reasons for it. I've been watching an interesting study in BC that seems to show some interesting results. 



https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/new-leaf-project-results-1.5752714#:~:text=Participants%20found%20housing%20faster%2C%20boosted,spending%20on%20substances%2C%20study%20found&text=605-,The%20results%20of%20a%20B.C.%20research%20project%20that%20gave%20thousands,%22living%20on%20the%20margins.%22


----------



## keenataz (Feb 17, 2009)

Lisa in WA said:


> They aren’t doing better. They are doing far worse in my opinion.
> Do you live in a city with a high number of homeless camps, shelters, etc?


I live in North BC and even in harsh conditions we have homeless. Probably not to that extent. But go to Vancouver and probably at that level. And yes a lot of it is substance abuse.


----------



## keenataz (Feb 17, 2009)

HDRider said:


> Dudette. I'm simply asking why this exist as it does, in the numbers it is. It is really an unsolvable problem? There has to be a reason. Is poverty there that bad? Are that many mentally ill people congregated there and a couple of other west coast cities. If so, why are they not being treated? Are they mostly drugged out?
> 
> My guess it is all three, poverty, drugs, and mental illness, but still, why cannot the officials there fix it?
> 
> Sorry if my curiosity upset you. This situation has gone on for a long time now, and it seems to only grow, and get worse.


Well I can tell you about the a large part of the mentally ill. Over the years we have closed many mental health treatment facilities. We relied on the modern pharmaceuticals to treat them. But unfortunately med compliance is notoriously low in the mentally ill, so their demons come back and then out on the streets. Or of course they resort to other substances to self treat and again out on the streets.


----------



## keenataz (Feb 17, 2009)

Evons hubby said:


> Poverty has very little to do with it. The dependence on government is the basic culprit.


No mental illness and drug addiction is.


----------



## wr (Aug 10, 2003)

keenataz said:


> Well I can tell you about the a large part of the mentally ill. Over the years we have closed many mental health treatment facilities. We relied on the modern pharmaceuticals to treat them. But unfortunately med compliance is notoriously low in the mentally ill, so their demons come back and then out on the streets. Or of course they resort to other substances to self treat and again out on the streets.


And yet knowing that, one very notorious schizophrenics with a dangerous history of going off his meds has been released back into society and a second is on the way.


----------



## NRA_guy (Jun 9, 2015)

keenataz said:


> No mental illness and drug addiction is.


But . . . what keeps the mentally ill and drug addicted people alive?

Answer: Government and charitable handouts. 

Take away the government handouts, and their numbers would go down exponentially. (Most would either straighten out or die.)

The US did not have a giant homeless problem 50 years ago. What changed?


----------



## keenataz (Feb 17, 2009)

NRA_guy said:


> But . . . what keeps the mentally ill and drug addicted people alive?
> 
> Answer: Government and charitable handouts.
> 
> ...


Just to be clear, you are ok with the mentally ill dying on the streets.

50 years ago-many mentally ill were locked up, that is another debate and the substance abuse problem was much smaller. So voila, less homeless.

Although 90 years ago there was a major homeless problem.


----------



## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

keenataz said:


> ok with the mentally ill dying on the streets.


I guess if they live on the streets that is where they die


----------



## Evons hubby (Oct 3, 2005)

keenataz said:


> Just to be clear, you are ok with the mentally ill dying on the streets.
> 
> 50 years ago-many mentally ill were locked up, that is another debate and the substance abuse problem was much smaller. So voila, less homeless.
> 
> Although 90 years ago there was a major homeless problem.


90 years ago there was a worldwide catastrophic depression going on.


----------



## Redlands Okie (Nov 28, 2017)

keenataz said:


> Just to be clear, you are ok with the mentally ill dying on the streets.
> 
> 50 years ago-many mentally ill were locked up, that is another debate and the substance abuse problem was much smaller. So voila, less homeless.
> 
> Although 90 years ago there was a major homeless problem.


If the mentally ill are not being taken care off and treated as needed in a safe environment then where else but the streets do you think they will die ? Those that allow and approve of the current process of handling the mentally homeless ill are the people 100% responsible for what happens to them.


----------



## NRA_guy (Jun 9, 2015)

keenataz said:


> Just to be clear, you are ok with the mentally ill dying on the streets.


Sure. 

Where do you prefer that they die?

And how much money should I be forced to contribute (via taxes) to drag out the process?

We all pretty much die where we live (though it may be postponed a bit in a hospital or one of those God-forsaken nursing homes.


----------



## Cornhusker (Mar 20, 2003)

NRA_guy said:


> Sure.
> 
> Where do you prefer that they die?
> 
> ...


Not to worry, Gropin' Joe and his faithful sidekick will take care of the homeless problem just as soon as they pay for all the illegal immigrants, foreign dictators and organized crime and get all future elections locked into Democrats.
We can't print money for everything at once.


----------



## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

Cornhusker said:


> We can't print money for everything at once.


Too much change too fast is too much for people.

We have to pace ourselves. It is a long game.


----------



## wr (Aug 10, 2003)

Cornhusker said:


> We can't print money for everything at once.


Not everything needs public funds. Did you read the test project that I posted? At this point it's a test project showing good results. 

A grou in Germany is testing solar powered sleep pods to help with their homeless problem. 









These solar-powered sleeping pods were designed to provide homeless people shelter in winter!


There are an estimated 860,000 homeless people in Germany and it is a well-known fact that the winter there is brutal! No one should be suffering out in the cold and to help the circumstances, a Ge…




www.yankodesign.com




.


----------



## Cornhusker (Mar 20, 2003)

wr said:


> Not everything needs public funds. Did you read the test project that I posted? At this point it's a test project showing good results.
> 
> A grou in Germany is testing solar powered sleep pods to help with their homeless problem.
> 
> ...


Looks like it would work for some of them.
It won't solve the homeless problem but would give them a dry place to sleep


----------



## GunMonkeyIntl (May 13, 2013)

HDRider said:


> Too much change too fast is too much for people.
> 
> We have to pace ourselves. It is a long game.


It’s not a long game anymore. They had an unplanned four-year setback. That’s the real reason they fought the way they did. They realized they needed to effect sequential impeachment convictions, for two different men, in order to get back on schedule.


----------



## wr (Aug 10, 2003)

Cornhusker said:


> Looks like it would work for some of them.
> It won't solve the homeless problem but would give them a dry place to sleep


They won't freeze to death on the streets. I thought the BC study was interesting in the sense that individuals were given a one time payment and the individual was allowed to manage their own money with good results. People were back in permanent housing quicker than those utilizing public funds but it does seem to indicate that quite a few have some desire to improve their situation. 

The big problem with homeless people is the diverse reasons for being homeless and there is no simple solution and not all of them need costly solutions. 

The mentally ill won't benefit from any program that I'm aware of but would very likely benefit from group housing or a transitional living situation, when they have a roof but also have someone on site ensuring they are taking meds and transitioning them to a more independent lifestyle and suitable employment. 

Runaways need something different entirely. They may have left a bad situation but the situation will get nothing but worse if they have no education and no prospects. They are also vulnerable to being drawn into a criminal lifestyle which costs the system even more. 

Those with addictions tend to fall into two categories. Those that have hit rock bottom and those who are self medicating mental illness and they are likely the ones who will keep returning to living on the streets.


----------



## keenataz (Feb 17, 2009)

Redlands Okie said:


> If the mentally ill are not being taken care off and treated as needed in a safe environment then where else but the streets do you think they will die ? Those that allow and approve of the current process of handling the mentally homeless ill are the people 100% responsible for what happens to them.


Yeah it is not so black and white. I think it is good that some are not in institution, but there are many who should be.

They should not be roaming the streets, homeless and vulnerable.


----------



## keenataz (Feb 17, 2009)

wr said:


> They won't freeze to death on the streets. I thought the BC study was interesting in the sense that individuals were given a one time payment and the individual was allowed to manage their own money with good results. People were back in permanent housing quicker than those utilizing public funds but it does seem to indicate that quite a few have some desire to improve their situation.
> 
> The big problem with homeless people is the diverse reasons for being homeless and there is no simple solution and not all of them need costly solutions.
> 
> ...


Runaways are one group I forgot. Another sad story


----------



## stars at night (Mar 12, 2021)

fireweed farm said:


> Me thinks these people cracked out in tents along the highway don't have enough energy for a noticeable rate of voting. But I know your answer will resonate with conservatives who think liberals inherently stoop so low to cheat.


In DC the homeless got to the point of being very crowded...these guys were the Vietnam vets who came back so fuc*ed up they couldn't do a thing. Loss of limbs, loss of memory, too much memory and PTS. Mental illness too...they are sick, mentally and emotionally and there isn't enough help on any level to go around. Before you guys bad mouth them, remember they fought in a foreingh (sp) country for what they don't know and don't remember. My brother was one of them. His body came home upright but his soul left him long before he left Nam. Whatever each city does is up to them. It's got to have something to do with morals, money or madness.


----------



## siberian1 (Aug 7, 2020)

georger said:


> I could answer, but then I’d be censored and probably tossed out.



Why, this is a Canadian forum, your view is worthy as anyones.


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## Ziptie (May 16, 2013)

I don't see why we can't do the farms again. 

Find a nice place in the desert, 3D print some small all concrete homes (harder for them to destroy). A big community center in the middle that serves three meals a day and med care. Have one group just for males, one for females, one for married. You could even have a big warehouse house like store that they could get clothes and furniture. All the states could ship them into one big place. It would be a lot easier having everyone in one place them spread all over the US.


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## dodgesmammaw (Jun 19, 2013)

I have to share a funny story this brought to mind. I live in the country in Texas. The doctor I worked for took us to Portland for some kind of training. It was country goes to city. This was a good 15 years ago. We walked the streets viewing sites. We passed a young homeless girl with bright colored hair, piercings pushing a grocery cart. Never seen this before except on tv. I looked at her and must of had a look of horror and shock on my face. She took a step toward me and said, BOO. I will never forget it. There were many homeless even that long ago.


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## RJ2019 (Aug 27, 2019)

mreynolds said:


> Same here, I have not seen one black homeless anywhere in my state that I have traveled to. And I have been all over this state.
> 
> Maybe only the whites are the panhandlers? I don't want to call that article false but I do know the are a lot more white homeless than what they W saying in there.


There are several homeless blacks here. I guess we have more of a mixed bag. Come to think of it though, I have never seen an Asian homeless person here... I also have seen Hispanics throughout the years.


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## SLFarmMI (Feb 21, 2013)

Ziptie said:


> I don't see why we can't do the farms again.
> 
> Find a nice place in the desert, 3D print some small all concrete homes (harder for them to destroy). A big community center in the middle that serves three meals a day and med care. Have one group just for males, one for females, one for married. You could even have a big warehouse house like store that they could get clothes and furniture. All the states could ship them into one big place. It would be a lot easier having everyone in one place them spread all over the US.


Right, let's just put the homeless in one big, national concentration camp. What a great idea! That's sarcasm for those of you impaired in that area.


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## Ziptie (May 16, 2013)

So, would you fix it?


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## coolrunnin (Aug 28, 2010)

Ziptie said:


> So, would you fix it?


You're dealing with people there is no %100 fix, and I don't think you could make them conform in your camp any better than they conform to societal norms.


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## SLFarmMI (Feb 21, 2013)

Ziptie said:


> So, would you fix it?


There is no quick and easy fix. There is no single thing that will fix the problems because the homeless population is not a single, homogeneous entity. There are many reasons behind homelessness and all need to be addressed. 

1. We need to do better by our veterans. Many of the homeless are veterans who came home with PTSD as well as physical injuries. My husband had flashbacks and nightmares for months when he came back from the Gulf War. Fortunately he had a good support system within the family to help him get through it but many vets don't. He also still suffers from the physical effects of being struck by lightning. Fortunately, we had good insurance through my work because the attitude of the Marine Corps and the VA was, "You didn't get shot or blown up so take a hike." We need to do better at providing our vets with the support they need to address their physical, emotional and psychological needs when they return.

2. We need more quality foster parents. Many teenagers are homeless because life on the streets is better than life at home. They are either thrown out of their homes because they come out and their parents can't handle it or they run away because of physical or sexual abuse. They need somewhere better than the streets. 

3. We need better mental health care.


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## Evons hubby (Oct 3, 2005)

SLFarmMI said:


> Right, let's just put the homeless in one big, national concentration camp. What a great idea! That's sarcasm for those of you impaired in that area.


One big pile is better than a thousand small piles don’t you think? Looks to me like we could serve the individuals needs much better in a central location than trying to reach out to them in the numerous alleyways and homeless encampments.


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## Evons hubby (Oct 3, 2005)

coolrunnin said:


> You're dealing with people there is no %100 fix, and I don't think you could make them conform in your camp any better than they conform to societal norms.


That depends upon the options given. The vast majority will conform to the rules of the camp given the option of conforming or testing tensile strength of rope with their necks.


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## po boy (Jul 12, 2010)

SLFarmMI said:


> 1. We need to do better by our veterans. Many of the homeless are veterans who came home with PTSD as well as physical injuries. My husband had flashbacks and nightmares for months when he came back from the Gulf War. Fortunately he had a good support system within the family to help him get through it but many vets don't. He also still suffers from the physical effects of being struck by lightning. Fortunately, we had good insurance through my work because the attitude of the Marine Corps and the VA was, "You didn't get shot or blown up so take a hike." We need to do better at providing our vets with the support they need to address their physical, emotional and psychological needs when they return.


I would like to thank your husband for his service.


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## NRA_guy (Jun 9, 2015)

Ever see the movie "Soylent Green"?

Soylent Green - Wikipedia

There's your ultimate answer. 

PS: Wonder why Covid-19 is not killing off the homeless population? 

Are they getting the vaccinations? 

Wonder if they are wearing masks and washing their hands for 30 seconds regularly?


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## SLFarmMI (Feb 21, 2013)

po boy said:


> I would like to thank your husband for his service.


Thank you. That is kind of you.


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## SLFarmMI (Feb 21, 2013)

Evons hubby said:


> One big pile is better than a thousand small piles don’t you think? Looks to me like we could serve the individuals needs much better in a central location than trying to reach out to them in the numerous alleyways and homeless encampments.


That's the same kind of wrong-headed thinking that led the US to create internment camps during WWII. We have to keep "them" (whoever "them" is at the time) in one central location so we can keep an eye on them. 

A camp for the homeless is no better than a camp for Japanese Americans was.


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

SLFarmMI said:


> A camp for the homeless is no better than a camp for Japanese Americans was



















One looks better than the other


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## SLFarmMI (Feb 21, 2013)

HDRider said:


> View attachment 96289
> View attachment 96290
> 
> 
> One looks better than the other


So, in your opinion, an internment camp is fine and dandy as long as it looks tidy? Try telling that to someone who was forced into one.


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

SLFarmMI said:


> So, in your opinion, an internment camp is fine and dandy as long as it looks tidy? Try telling that to someone who was forced into one.


Were you forced into one?


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## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

HDRider said:


> Were you forced into one?


My mother, uncles, aunts, grandparents and cousins were. Homeless at least get to decide where they lay their head at night and are free to move about.


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## SLFarmMI (Feb 21, 2013)

HDRider said:


> Were you forced into one?


Why don't you talk to these folks?








Japanese Internment Camp Survivors: In Their Own Words (PHOTOS)


In 1942, President Roosevelt authorized Japanese Americans to be forcibly moved to prison camps. Take a look at some of those survivors' experiences in their own words.




www.biography.com





Or these?




__





Telling Their Stories






www.tellingstories.org





You could even jump on Twitter and ask George Takei. 

Putting people in what is essentially a concentration camp because they are "them" and we are "us" is wrong no matter how neat & tidy that camp looks in pictures.


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

The idea that forcibly housing and caring for mentally ill people and those disabled by addiction is in some way repugnant is simply a lie.


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## GunMonkeyIntl (May 13, 2013)

HDRider said:


> One looks better than the other


Agreed, 100%.

One shows the homes of Americans whose freedom is inconvenient to us. The other shows the homes of Americans who had their freedom stripped away because they were inconvenient to us.

Wait... which one did you think “looks better”?


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## SLFarmMI (Feb 21, 2013)

HDRider said:


> The idea that forcibly housing and caring for mentally ill people and those disabled by addiction is in some way repugnant is simply a lie.


The idea that locking homeless people away in camps is "caring for" them is simply repugnant.


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## Evons hubby (Oct 3, 2005)

SLFarmMI said:


> That's the same kind of wrong-headed thinking that led the US to create internment camps during WWII. We have to keep "them" (whoever "them" is at the time) in one central location so we can keep an eye on them.
> 
> A camp for the homeless is no better than a camp for Japanese Americans was.


Who said anything about an “internment camp”? Do you also liken a university campus to an internment camp?


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## muleskinner2 (Oct 7, 2007)

The more you do for them, the easier you make it, the more of them there will be. There has always been a percentage of the population who are unable or unwilling to take care of themselves. A well fed and well medicated homeless person is still homeless. Leave them alone, let nature take it's course.


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

I would not want them camping on the sidewalk in front of my house.

I guess as long as they are nothing but a pixel to me I am OK with however they choose to live.


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## Lisa in WA (Oct 11, 2004)

I think there is a world of difference between mental health and addiction treatment facilities and Japanese concentration camps. Sounds like a false equivalency to me.


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## GunMonkeyIntl (May 13, 2013)

Lisa in WA said:


> I think there is a world of difference between mental health and addiction treatment facilities and Japanese concentration camps. Sounds like a false equivalency to me.


Of course there is. But mental health and addiction treatment facilities weren’t what was being suggested. 
It started with:


Ziptie said:


> I don't see why we can't do the farms again.
> 
> Find a nice place in the desert, 3D print some small all concrete homes (harder for them to destroy). A big community center in the middle that serves three meals a day and med care. Have one group just for males, one for females, one for married. You could even have a big warehouse house like store that they could get clothes and furniture. All the states could ship them into one big place. It would be a lot easier having everyone in one place them spread all over the US.


If someone is homeless due to mental health issues, they should get help. If they are homeless due to addition, they should get help of be jailed. If they are homeless and living a lifestyle of crime, they should be jailed.

Not everyone who is homeless is mentally ill, addicted, or a criminal. Identifying them by the sole metric of homelessness, and “shipping them all to one place” where they can be _managed_ is a whole lot like an interment camp, and not at all like a mental-health/addiction treatment facility.


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

GunMonkeyIntl said:


> But *mental health and addiction treatment facilities* weren’t what was being suggested.


I guess it is all a matter of interpretation. I took it to mean exactly that.


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## GunMonkeyIntl (May 13, 2013)

HDRider said:


> I guess it is all a matter of interpretation. I took it to mean exactly that.


It said to put “everyone (homeless) in one place”, but not everyone who is homeless is mentally ill or addicted.


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## coolrunnin (Aug 28, 2010)

Evons hubby said:


> Who said anything about an “internment camp”? Do you also liken a university campus to an internment camp?


Do you really think homeless could be allowed to freely come and go and would come back?

I never thought of you as naive before.

Sent from my SM-T550 using Homesteading Today mobile app


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## coolrunnin (Aug 28, 2010)

HDRider said:


> I guess it is all a matter of interpretation. I took it to mean exactly that.


Yet you contrasted pictures of homeless on the street and internment camps.

Sent from my SM-T550 using Homesteading Today mobile app


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

GunMonkeyIntl said:


> It said to put “everyone (homeless) in one place”, but not everyone who is homeless is mentally ill or addicted.


In addition to being a skimmer, I am an idea builder. Instead of dismissing an idea out of hand, I like to take it and improve it. Any mush melon can dismiss an idea, but it takes some think to grow an idea seed and turn it into a viable solution.


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

coolrunnin said:


> Yet you contrasted pictures of homeless on the street and internment camps.
> 
> Sent from my SM-T550 using Homesteading Today mobile app


To show the order of one, and the chaos of the other


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## dodgesmammaw (Jun 19, 2013)

There are many reasons people are homeless. Some of their own choosing. We volunteer weekly at our local mission. You just have to accept the fact that we cannot help everyone. Some are perfectly happy living that lifestyle. I do not think government at any level should force tax paying property owners to share their land with them. Their choice of lifestyle is not our fault. They want to allow them to live on city owned property go for it.


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

dodgesmammaw said:


> There are many reasons people are homeless. Some of their own choosing. We volunteer weekly at our local mission. You just have to accept the fact that we cannot help everyone. Some are perfectly happy living that lifestyle. I do not think government at any level should force tax paying property owners to share their land with them. Their choice of lifestyle is not our fault. They want to allow them to live on city owned property go for it.


You make it sound like a camping trip in a forest.

Sure they have the right to exercise choice, but the idea that they can dominate a city park, a beach, or a public space with obvious illicit activities, or to the detriment of public use is not a good idea.


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## Lisa in WA (Oct 11, 2004)

dodgesmammaw said:


> There are many reasons people are homeless. Some of their own choosing. We volunteer weekly at our local mission. You just have to accept the fact that we cannot help everyone. Some are perfectly happy living that lifestyle. I do not think government at any level should force tax paying property owners to share their land with them. Their choice of lifestyle is not our fault. They want to allow them to live on city owned property go for it.


No thanks to your last sentence.
we pay huge property taxes in my city and my kids and grandkids and I should be able to use the library, parks, sidewalks without having to step around piles of human excrement, needles discarded in the grass and people passed out in the children’s section of the library. My neighbors shouldn’t have to wake up to people camped in their front yard. I shouldn’t have had to be assaulted by a mentally ill homeless person in a subway station.
My husband and I pay the rent for a series of homeless families as they get back on their feet. And I’m happy to do that. But I don’t think it’s humane to the homeless or to he rest of us to give the severely mentally ill or addicted to have free rein as to where they want to lay their heads at night. not Should they be clogging the jails or court systems over and over. Hospitalize the mentally ill and help them recover via medication etc and house the addicted in some kind of recovery center and help them. But leaving them pooping on sidewalks and passed out naked on the streets isn’t humane at all in my opinion. They’re human beings...not animals.


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## coolrunnin (Aug 28, 2010)

HDRider said:


> To show the order of one, and the chaos of the other


But order was created with barbwire and guns. 

Sent from my SM-T550 using Homesteading Today mobile app


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## Evons hubby (Oct 3, 2005)

coolrunnin said:


> Do you really think homeless could be allowed to freely come and go and would come back?
> 
> I never thought of you as naive before.
> 
> Sent from my SM-T550 using Homesteading Today mobile app


Again, who said they could come and go freely? At least not until they’ve recovered from their addictions, and or mental conditions and learned trades or skills required to hold a job and maintain their homes.


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## SLFarmMI (Feb 21, 2013)

Evons hubby said:


> Who said anything about an “internment camp”? Do you also liken a university campus to an internment camp?


Folks are proposing herding a specific group of people into one location and not letting them leave. Sure sounds like an internment camp.


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## SLFarmMI (Feb 21, 2013)

Evons hubby said:


> Again, who said they could come and go freely? At least not until they’ve recovered from their addictions, and or mental conditions and learned trades or skills required to hold a job and maintain their homes.


So you'd hold them hostage in a place they don't want to be because they belong to a particular group. But, "who said anything about an internment camp"? Right.


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

coolrunnin said:


> But order was created with barbwire and guns.
> 
> Sent from my SM-T550 using Homesteading Today mobile app


Do you think the afflicted will stay in the treatment facility without certain confinement measures?


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## Evons hubby (Oct 3, 2005)

SLFarmMI said:


> So you'd hold them hostage in a place they don't want to be because they belong to a particular group. But, "who said anything about an internment camp"? Right.


 yes, I would. Trespassing, destruction of public property, defacing public property are all inexcusable crimes. Not to mention illicit drug use, trafficking, prostitution and other crimes common among the group. 
Millions of kids are herded to a central location daily, do you consider schools to be internment camps? What about the millions who are confined in nursing homes? Or mental institutions, or jails?


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

SLFarmMI said:


> So you'd hold them hostage in a place they don't want to be because they belong to a particular group. But, "who said anything about an internment camp"? Right.


You are a case study in using the absurd to counter rational thought and derail an idea.


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## SLFarmMI (Feb 21, 2013)

HDRider said:


> You are a case study in using the absurd to counter rational thought and derail an idea.


You wouldn't know a rational thought if it bit you in the butt.

Herding the homeless into camps (post #130), making them comply to how you insist they live or else test the "tensile strength of rope with their necks" (post #138) and not allowing them to come and go freely (post #166) are not examples of rational thought.


----------



## Evons hubby (Oct 3, 2005)

SLFarmMI said:


> You wouldn't know a rational thought if it bit you in the butt.
> 
> Herding the homeless into camps (post #130), making them comply to how you insist they live or else test the "tensile strength of rope with their necks" (post #138) and not allowing them to come and go freely (post #166) are not examples of rational thought.


And yet your fine with confining innocent children in schools every day. Assuming of course they are allowed to live long enough.


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## Lisa in WA (Oct 11, 2004)

SLFarmMI said:


> So you'd hold them hostage in a place they don't want to be because they belong to a particular group. But, "who said anything about an internment camp"? Right.


Kind of like prison, huh?
which is where many of them end up because being drug addicted and/or severely mentally ill seems to have a strong association with law breaking or criminal acts. 
The mentally ill homeless person who assaulted me would, I would have hoped, ended up getting necessary treatment and not thrown into jail or prison.


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## SLFarmMI (Feb 21, 2013)

Lisa in WA said:


> Kind of like prison, huh?
> which is where many of them end up because being drug addicted and/or severely mentally ill seems to have a strong association with law breaking or criminal acts.
> The mentally ill homeless person who assaulted me would, I would have hoped, ended up getting necessary treatment and not thrown into jail or prison.


Unless they are being tossed into prison simply for being homeless, you are providing a false equivalency. Several posters on this thread are apparently in favor of herding the homeless into camps and not allowing them to leave. That is just plain wrong.


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## Lisa in WA (Oct 11, 2004)

SLFarmMI said:


> Unless they are being tossed into prison simply for being homeless, you are providing a false equivalency. Several posters on this thread are apparently in favor of herding the homeless into camps and not allowing them to leave. That is just plain wrong.


It’s kind of hard for these two groups to be homeless without breaking laws.
public urination and defecation, trespassing, drug use, sleeping in parks, etc.
I have no problems with enforcing the public laws if we have a place for these people to go. 
We can’t wish them out of existence but we can do what we can to help them and if it’s keeping the severely mentally ill locked up in a hospital and treated, or the addicted locked up in a special facility to help them with their addiction then I’m for it. Beats prison Or forcing them to live like animals.


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## GunMonkeyIntl (May 13, 2013)

SLFarmMI said:


> (post #138)


That one’s just an oxygen thief.
Nothing he says is worth a tinker’s dam.


----------



## SLFarmMI (Feb 21, 2013)

GunMonkeyIntl said:


> That one’s just an oxygen thief.
> Nothing he says is worth a tinker’s dam.


True. 

I like that expression -- "oxygen thief".


----------



## Evons hubby (Oct 3, 2005)

GunMonkeyIntl said:


> That one’s just an oxygen thief.
> Nothing he says is worth a tinker’s dam.


Even when I agree with you?


----------



## Evons hubby (Oct 3, 2005)

SLFarmMI said:


> Unless they are being tossed into prison simply for being homeless, you are providing a false equivalency. Several posters on this thread are apparently in favor of herding the homeless into camps and not allowing them to leave. That is just plain wrong.


Again with the “camps” nonsense”. Try rehab center. Or mental health care facility, maybe even educational therapy facility. Pick any label you like for a centrally Located facility that provides the needed care and training required to enable the homeless a better life than living on our streets.


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## GunMonkeyIntl (May 13, 2013)

Evons hubby said:


> Even when I agree with you?


Yes.
Sometimes even a racist nut finds a squirrel.


----------



## Evons hubby (Oct 3, 2005)

GunMonkeyIntl said:


> Yes.
> Sometimes even a racist nut finds a squirrel.


Bwaaahahaha!!


----------



## SLFarmMI (Feb 21, 2013)

Evons hubby said:


> Again with the “camps” nonsense”. Try rehab center. Or mental health care facility, maybe even educational therapy facility. Pick any label you like for a centrally Located facility that provides the needed care and training required to enable the homeless a better life than living on our streets.


When you are advocating rounding the homeless up and making them go to your "centrally Located (sic) facility" against their will, preventing them from coming and going as they wish and dictating that they either conform or test the "tensile strength of rope with their necks", that is not a "rehab center", "mental health care facility" or "educational therapy facility".


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## Evons hubby (Oct 3, 2005)

SLFarmMI said:


> When you are advocating rounding the homeless up and making them go to your "centrally Located (sic) facility" against their will, preventing them from coming and going as they wish and dictating that they either conform or test the "tensile strength of rope with their necks", that is not a "rehab center", "mental health care facility" or "educational therapy facility".


Maybe not, but it’s a viable solution to many problems. You are aware that millions already have been forced to live in similar facilities... right?


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## SLFarmMI (Feb 21, 2013)

Evons hubby said:


> Maybe not, but it’s a viable solution to many problems. You are aware that millions already have been forced to live in similar facilities... right?


Forcing the homeless into an internment camp is not a "viable solution". How unsurprising that you would be in favor of such a thing.


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## Evons hubby (Oct 3, 2005)

SLFarmMI said:


> Forcing the homeless into an internment camp is not a "viable solution". How unsurprising that you would be in favor of such a thing.


I never suggested forcing anyone into an internment camp. I do think ensuring care and treatment for those in need is a good thing.


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## Redlands Okie (Nov 28, 2017)

SLFarmMI said:


> Forcing the homeless into an internment camp is not a "viable solution". How unsurprising that you would be in favor of such a thing.


Build a small town, that the caregivers can live in, perhaps free of rent. Then let each of the homeless have their own corner for living quarters. Toss in a couple of parks and bridges for those that need them. Should provide a comfortable setting that the homeless are used to and insure their protection and ability to access care from the nearby caregivers as needed..............


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## SLFarmMI (Feb 21, 2013)

Redlands Okie said:


> Build a small town, that the caregivers can live in, perhaps free of rent. Then let each of the homeless have their own corner for living quarters. Toss in a couple of parks and bridges for those that need them. Should provide a comfortable setting that the homeless are used to and insure their protection and ability to access care from the nearby caregivers as needed..............


And what if the homeless don't want to go to your town? What if they are content where they are, living their lives the way they see fit?


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## Lisa in WA (Oct 11, 2004)

SLFarmMI said:


> And what if the homeless don't want to go to your town? What if they are content where they are, living their lives the way they see fit?


On other people’s property?
Yes.... What if they are content living on others property and defecting in the streets, starting lots of fires and leaving needles and trash strewn about?
Just let them do as they please?
Is that your solution?
Maybe we could open up all public buildings to them to live in. Like schools, libraries, city buildings, etc.


----------



## SLFarmMI (Feb 21, 2013)

Evons hubby said:


> One big pile is better than a thousand small piles don’t you think? Looks to me like we could serve the individuals needs much better in a central location than trying to reach out to them in the numerous alleyways and homeless encampments.





Evons hubby said:


> That depends upon the options given. The vast majority will conform to the rules of the camp given the option of conforming or testing tensile strength of rope with their necks.





Evons hubby said:


> Again, who said they could come and go freely? At least not until they’ve recovered from their addictions, and or mental conditions and learned trades or skills required to hold a job and maintain their homes.





Evons hubby said:


> Again with the “camps” nonsense”. Try rehab center. Or mental health care facility, maybe even educational therapy facility. Pick any label you like for a centrally Located facility that provides the needed care and training required to enable the homeless a better life than living on our streets.





Evons hubby said:


> I never suggested forcing anyone into an internment camp. I do think ensuring care and treatment for those in need is a good thing.


You apparently have a short memory. A "centrally located facility" where the homeless are placed and not allowed to leave until they conform to how you want them to live their lives is indeed an internment camp no matter how much you want to tap dance around that label.


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## SLFarmMI (Feb 21, 2013)

Lisa in WA said:


> On other people’s property?
> Yes.... What if they are content living on others property and defecting in the streets, starting lots of fires and leaving needles and trash strewn about?
> Just let them do as they please?
> Is that your solution?


I proposed solutions upthread.


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

SLFarmMI said:


> And what if the homeless don't want to go to your town? What if they are content where they are, living their lives the way they see fit?


Stop with the screed. It gets so tiresome.


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## SLFarmMI (Feb 21, 2013)

HDRider said:


> Stop with the screed. It gets so tiresome.


Feel free to not read my posts. You could also try getting over yourself.


----------



## Lisa in WA (Oct 11, 2004)

SLFarmMI said:


> I proposed solutions upthread.


No, you really didn’t. 
You said we need to do better by veterans, better mental health care and more foster homes.


----------



## SLFarmMI (Feb 21, 2013)

Lisa in WA said:


> No, you really didn’t.
> You said we need to do better by veterans, better mental health care and more foster homes.


And those are the things we need to address if we are going to make a dent in the issue of homelessness. Nothing changes if you don't address the underlying causes of homelessness.


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## Lisa in WA (Oct 11, 2004)

SLFarmMI said:


> And those are the things we need to address if we are going to make a dent in the issue of homelessness. Nothing changes if you don't address the underlying causes of homelessness.


And so what to do with the people out there now? Let them rot? Let them freeze? Let them assault people and burn down private property? Let them throw their excrement and needles everywhere?
You know. While you sit in your ivory tower and lecture about the underlying causes and make sure people here use the right terminology so as not to offend your humorless liberal sensibilities?


----------



## NRA_guy (Jun 9, 2015)

Wonder how many homeless are camped out in front of the homes of Governors, Senators, Representatives and millionaire business owners?

I'm guessing none.

Maybe if we relocated the homeless to those places, the government would figure out a solution.

I read that one of Biden's plans is to subsidize the move of poor inner city (mostly black) folks out to the wealthy (mostly white) suburbs. Maybe he will relocate the homeless, too.


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## SLFarmMI (Feb 21, 2013)

Lisa in WA said:


> And so what to do with the people out there now? Let them rot? Let them freeze? Let them assault people and burn down private property? Let them throw their excrement and needles everywhere?
> You know. While you sit in your ivory tower and address the underlying causes?


And how does rounding them up and shuffling them off to a camp out of sight and out of mind, not allowing them to leave solve the problem? Unless you address the underlying causes of homelessness, new homeless people will just take the places of the ones you just rounded up.


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## Evons hubby (Oct 3, 2005)

SLFarmMI said:


> You apparently have a short memory. A "centrally located facility" where the homeless are placed and not allowed to leave until they conform to how you want them to live their lives is indeed an internment camp no matter how much you want to tap dance around that label.


Is a hospital an internment camp? 
is a rehab center an internment camp?
is an elementary school an internment camp? 
is a prison an internment camp?


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## SLFarmMI (Feb 21, 2013)

Evons hubby said:


> Is a hospital an internment camp?
> is a rehab center an internment camp?
> is an elementary school an internment camp?
> is a prison an internment camp?


Keep tap dancing. Why is it that you are so afraid to own your words?


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## muleskinner2 (Oct 7, 2007)

SLFarmMI said:


> The idea that locking homeless people away in camps is "caring for" them is simply repugnant.


As opposed to letting them camp on the street and crap in front of a family business? Have you ever been to a homeless camp, do you know what it smells like in the summer? Not all homeless are mental ill, and what difference would that make? A camp would have real housing, running water, a medical clinic, security, day care for the children, all of the terrible things that civilized people have become used to. Someone argued that they are free to come and go as they please. I would argue that they are free to crap in the street, shoot up in public, and leave the sidewalk so filthy I wouldn't let my dog walk on it. 

Or we could just leave them on the sidewalk, where the strong prey upon the weak when the sun goes down. And local governments have turned the problem into a cash cow, by demanding money from the federal government to help the homeless. And yet there are more and more homeless every day, no matter how much money is handed to the local socialists, to study the problem.


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## Evons hubby (Oct 3, 2005)

SLFarmMI said:


> Keep tap dancing. Why is it that you are so afraid to own your words?


I’m not afraid of my words at all, but you seem to be terrified by the thought of putting a large group of public services in a centralized location where they can do the most good.


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## barnbilder (Jul 1, 2005)

Do they have buffalo? In the past, shooting all of the buffalo worked pretty good to get homeless people to choose to either evacuate or assimilate.


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## SLFarmMI (Feb 21, 2013)

Evons hubby said:


> I’m not afraid of my words at all, but you seem to be terrified by the thought of putting a large group of public services in a centralized location where they can do the most good.


Rounding up the homeless, putting them in a "centralized location" against their will and not letting them leave should bother everyone.


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## muleskinner2 (Oct 7, 2007)

SLFarmMI said:


> You apparently have a short memory. A "centrally located facility" where the homeless are placed and not allowed to leave until they conform to how you want them to live their lives is indeed an internment camp no matter how much you want to tap dance around that label.


So what, call it anything you like. Their right to camp anyplace they choose, and crap in the street doesn't override my right to walk down the street without stepping in crap, or over and around used needles. Civilization is a compromise, you either go along or you get out. Getting out doesn't mean you can occupy a public sidewalk, defecate anyplace you choose, or create a health hazard. 

And this fairy tail about mental health, and drug addiction is getting real old. I have worked in a large county jail. When some crazy drug addict was locked up, and treated or allowed to come down cold turkey it worked. One day they woke up and asked for a double ration of food because they were hungry, and could think clearly enough to realize that eating was more important than getting high. This is something that they would never do on their own, it just doesn't happen.


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## SLFarmMI (Feb 21, 2013)

muleskinner2 said:


> As opposed to letting them camp on the street and crap in front of a family business? Have you ever been to a homeless camp, do you know what it smells like in the summer? Not all homeless are mental ill, and what difference would that make? A camp would have real housing, running water, a medical clinic, security, day care for the children, all of the terrible things that civilized people have become used to. Someone argued that they are free to come and go as they please. I would argue that they are free to crap in the street, shoot up in public, and leave the sidewalk so filthy I wouldn't let my dog walk on it.
> 
> Or we could just leave them on the sidewalk, where the strong prey upon the weak when the sun goes down. And local governments have turned the problem into a cash cow, by demanding money from the federal government to help the homeless. And yet there are more and more homeless every day, no matter how much money is handed to the local socialists, to study the problem.


If it was the free choice of the homeless person to go there and he or she were free to come and go as they pleased, then folks wouldn't have a problem with it. But that is not what people on this thread are proposing.


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## Evons hubby (Oct 3, 2005)

SLFarmMI said:


> Rounding up the homeless, putting them in a "centralized location" against their will and not letting them leave should bother everyone.


Why? We round up other criminals and threats to civilized life.


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## barnbilder (Jul 1, 2005)

muleskinner2 said:


> As opposed to letting them camp on the street and crap in front of a family business? Have you ever been to a homeless camp, do you know what it smells like in the summer? Not all homeless are mental ill, and what difference would that make? A camp would have real housing, running water, a medical clinic, security, day care for the children, all of the terrible things that civilized people have become used to. Someone argued that they are free to come and go as they please. I would argue that they are free to crap in the street, shoot up in public, and leave the sidewalk so filthy I wouldn't let my dog walk on it.
> 
> Or we could just leave them on the sidewalk, where the strong prey upon the weak when the sun goes down. And local governments have turned the problem into a cash cow, by demanding money from the federal government to help the homeless. And yet there are more and more homeless every day, no matter how much money is handed to the local socialists, to study the problem.


If they didn't work for it, didn't earn it, they would trash any such facility that was provided. I see it all the time. People inherit a house, or a business, a farm, and it goes to hades. People that know how hard it was to build, or how hard they had to work to pay someone else to build, end up as much better caretakers of the things they have. People are homeless because they are allowed to be. If they appreciated four walls and a roof, they would do what it took to secure those living conditions. Those unable, mentally or medically, already have plenty of options, and allowing life on the streets to be an option for those people is not good for society. I don't want to work, I just want to bang on my drum all day. Noise ordinances, and financial arrangements keep me from fulfilling my dreams. It's bad and it's horrible, but having to forego weeks at a time strung out on mind altering substances while earning a living can have it's own rewards. If anybody tells you that there are people who can't do anything to earn a living, watch out for those folks, they are probably government employees, and they likely don't do anything, yet still earn a living.


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## Evons hubby (Oct 3, 2005)

SLFarmMI said:


> If it was the free choice of the homeless person to go there and he or she were free to come and go as they pleased, then folks wouldn't have a problem with it. But that is not what people on this thread are proposing.


I sorta hinted at that earlier, you didn’t like that idea either.


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## muleskinner2 (Oct 7, 2007)

SLFarmMI said:


> Keep tap dancing. Why is it that you are so afraid to own your words?


Bleeding heart feeble minded weaklings, is reason we have a homeless problem. The liberal, politically correct approach doesn't work. Never has, never will. If you like the term Interment Camp, fine I'll paint the sign. I'll hang it over the gate. When homeless women and children, are sleeping in a clean bed, with good food to eat, with access to a shower and a flush toilet, I would just have to learn to hold my head in shame. When their basic needs are met they might be able to get a job, and find a real home to live in. How is that for tap dancing?


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## GunMonkeyIntl (May 13, 2013)

Evons hubby said:


> Is a hospital an internment camp?
> is a rehab center an internment camp?
> is an elementary school an internment camp?
> is a prison an internment camp?


Do they hang you for leaving any of those places?

Because that was one of your suggested detainment incentives. Or are you talking in circles now because you know you said something stupid?

Cue your tired BS line about mamas biscuits and mmhmm and wutnot?


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## SLFarmMI (Feb 21, 2013)

Evons hubby said:


> I sorta hinted at that earlier, you didn’t like that idea either.


No you sorta didn't. In fact your exact words were "Again, who said they could come and go freely?"


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## muleskinner2 (Oct 7, 2007)

barnbilder said:


> If they didn't work for it, didn't earn it, they would trash any such facility that was provide


I wasn't suggesting section eight housing. I wouldn't give it to them. They have demonstrated that they can't function on their own, so don't treat them like they can. After about ninety days off drugs and gaining weight, I would put them to work. Chopping weeds with a hoe all day, or picking up trash along an Interstate Highway, is very therapeutic. Hire some real teachers and teach them how to do something. As a nation we give away enough money each year in foreign aid to give every homeless person in America a new house in any city they wanted. Maybe if we stopped giving our tax money to our enemies, and spent it at home in our own country, on real programs that actually worked we wouldn't have this problem.


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## Evons hubby (Oct 3, 2005)

GunMonkeyIntl said:


> Do they hang you for leaving any of those places?
> 
> Because that was one of your suggested detainment incentives. Or are you talking in circles now because you know you said something stupid?
> 
> Cue your tired BS line about mamas biscuits and mmhmm and wutnot?


People have been shot for trying to leave.


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## Evons hubby (Oct 3, 2005)

SLFarmMI said:


> No you sorta didn't. In fact your exact words were "Again, who said they could come and go freely?"


You forgot about options already? Lol


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## SLFarmMI (Feb 21, 2013)

Evons hubby said:


> You forgot about options already? Lol


Oh, that's right, your option of conform or be hanged. Do you really think you're funny? Because, if you do, you are sadly mistaken.


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## Evons hubby (Oct 3, 2005)

SLFarmMI said:


> Oh, that's right, your option of conform or be hanged. Do you really think you're funny? Because, if you do, you are sadly mistaken.


It’s an option. Not one I’d chose, but an option just the same.


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## Redlands Okie (Nov 28, 2017)

SLFarmMI said:


> And what if the homeless don't want to go to your town? What if they are content where they are, living their lives the way they see fit?


Not safe for them where they are as they are. Seems a lack of compassion and care being presented.


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## muleskinner2 (Oct 7, 2007)

SLFarmMI said:


> If it was the free choice of the homeless person to go there and he or she were free to come and go as they pleased, then folks wouldn't have a problem with it. But that is not what people on this thread are proposing.


Their right to free choice is what put them in a tent on the sidewalk, crapping in the street. There would need to be a system for getting them back into regular society, and if they didn't want to go back to regular society, living in a clean safe camp, would be a cost effective alternative to homeless camps. I am not suggesting Nazi death camps, but letting them live where they like, and turning cities into third world dung heaps isn't working.


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## Redlands Okie (Nov 28, 2017)

SLFarmMI said:


> And how does rounding them up and shuffling them off to a camp out of sight and out of mind, not allowing them to leave solve the problem? Unless you address the underlying causes of homelessness, new homeless people will just take the places of the ones you just rounded up.


It takes care of the problems plaguing the rest of the citizens. This allows more time and care to then be provided to the homeless and mentally ill.


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## Redlands Okie (Nov 28, 2017)

muleskinner2 said:


> Bleeding heart feeble minded weaklings , is reason we have a homeless problem. The liberal, politically correct approach doesn't work. Never has, never will. If you like the term Interment Camp, fine I'll paint the sign. I'll hang it over the gate. When homeless women and children, are sleeping in a clean bed, with good food to eat, with access to a shower and a flush toilet, I would just have to learn to hold my head in shame. When their basic needs are met they might be able to get a job, and find a real home to live in. How is that for tap dancing?


I would enjoy being in the band for that tap dance. Well said.


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## muleskinner2 (Oct 7, 2007)

SLFarmMI said:


> Putting people in what is essentially a concentration camp because they are "them" and we are "us" is wrong no matter how neat & tidy that camp looks in pictures.


So make a suggestion. How would you propose to handle the homeless problem.


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## Lisa in WA (Oct 11, 2004)

SLFarmMI said:


> And how does rounding them up and shuffling them off to a camp out of sight and out of mind, not allowing them to leave solve the problem? Unless you address the underlying causes of homelessness, new homeless people will just take the places of the ones you just rounded up.


I’m dying to know where I said any of what you just claimed.. Is building a strawman all you have to do on a Saturday night? We just got back from dinner so I’ll build one too. So apparently you’re against hospitalizing sick people and getting help for the addicted. you just want them to live on the streets?


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## SLFarmMI (Feb 21, 2013)

muleskinner2 said:


> Bleeding heart feeble minded weaklings , is reason we have a homeless problem. The liberal, politically correct approach doesn't work. Never has, never will. If you like the term Interment Camp, fine I'll paint the sign. I'll hang it over the gate. When homeless women and children, are sleeping in a clean bed, with good food to eat, with access to a shower and a flush toilet, I would just have to learn to hold my head in shame. When their basic needs are met they might be able to get a job, and find a real home to live in. How is that for tap dancing?


When you propose forcing people into camps against their will you should hang your head in shame. If they freely choose to go there, that's one thing but forcing them there and holding them there against their will is wrong.


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## SLFarmMI (Feb 21, 2013)

Lisa in WA said:


> I’m dying to know where I said any of what you just claimed.. Is building a strawman all you have to do on a Saturday night? We just got back from dinner so I’ll build one too. So apparently you’re against hospitalizing sick people and getting help for the addicted. you just want them to live on the streets?


Have you not read the suggestions being made by posters on this thread? So stow the fake outrage.


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## Redlands Okie (Nov 28, 2017)

SLFarmMI said:


> When you propose forcing people into camps against their will you should hang your head in shame. If they freely choose to go there, that's one thing but forcing them there and holding them there against their will is wrong.


I propose they be forced out of the public’s and private areas that they have taken over and made unusable or unsafe for the rest of the citizens. To do otherwise is a shame. What is done with them then is the question.


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## Lisa in WA (Oct 11, 2004)

SLFarmMI said:


> Have you not read the suggestions being made by posters on this thread? So stow the fake outrage.


It’s not fake outrage, sweetie. It’s real outrage.
I live in the city.
I know businesses that have been destroyed because people didn’t want to go there because of the homeless camped outside. Why should a business owner have to use a pooper scoop on human manure and hose off urine from his building every morning?
I was assaulted and beaten by one of them Who was mentally ill and should have been locked up to protect the general public.
When we go to the public library we have to use the bathrooms lit with blue lights because it’s harder for the addicts to find their veins.
So they shoot up in the stacks, I had a pic of one passed out in the children’s section.
My daughter had rocks thrown at her and was chased when she and her friends walked on a public trail that went by an illegal encampment.
Our neighborhoods are seeing a huge amount of petty property crimes because our city council decided to make bus passes free to the homeless to make it easier I guess for them to camp in our driveways and front yards. And steal whatever’s not nailed down.
We also have an inordinately high number of fires due to the homeless starting them and throwing aerosol cans in to them. Or just passing out drunk or doped up and letting the fire get out of control.
So when you actually live where there are homeless and are letting them sleep on your classroom floor I’ll let your so called progressive backside patronize me. You’re more interested in mouthing the right platitudes than in what happens to actual human beings.


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## Redlands Okie (Nov 28, 2017)

In such times as we are living and I see ILLEGAL immigrants being provided for and taken better care of than our homeless citizens we have a serious problem with reality. We seem to have no problem with putting the ILLEGAL immigrants in camps not of their choosing until we can provide the care and services that some seem to think they deserve. Yet we do not do the same for our own homeless citizens? Shame is not a sufficient term.


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## SLFarmMI (Feb 21, 2013)

Lisa in WA said:


> It’s not fake outrage, sweetie. It’s real outrage.
> I live in the city.
> I know businesses that have been destroyed because people didn’t want to go there because of the homeless camped outside. Why should a business owner have to use a pooper scoop on human manure and hose off urine from his building every morning?
> I was assaulted and beaten by one of them Who was mentally ill and should have been locked up to protect the general public.
> ...


The one being patronizing, "sweetie", is you. 

Forcing the homeless into camps against their will and holding them there is wrong.

What's your solution for homelessness that addresses the root causes? Because if you don't address the reasons that people become and remain homeless, you continue to get the problems you list.


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## SLFarmMI (Feb 21, 2013)

Redlands Okie said:


> I propose they be forced out of the public’s and private areas that they have taken over and made unusable or unsafe for the rest of the citizens. To do otherwise is a shame. What is done with them then is the question.


So, "move along pal and to heck with you" is your solution?


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## NRA_guy (Jun 9, 2015)

OK. I found a guy who figured out the solution:


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## gilberte (Sep 25, 2004)

SLFarmMI, why don't you post your address and a proclamation that all homeless are welcome there?


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

barnbilder said:


> If they didn't work for it, didn't earn it, they would trash any such facility that was provided. I see it all the time. People inherit a house, or a business, a farm, and it goes to hades. People that know how hard it was to build, or how hard they had to work to pay someone else to build, end up as much better caretakers of the things they have. People are homeless because they are allowed to be. If they appreciated four walls and a roof, they would do what it took to secure those living conditions. Those unable, mentally or medically, already have plenty of options, and allowing life on the streets to be an option for those people is not good for society. I don't want to work, I just want to bang on my drum all day. Noise ordinances, and financial arrangements keep me from fulfilling my dreams. It's bad and it's horrible, but having to forego weeks at a time strung out on mind altering substances while earning a living can have it's own rewards. If anybody tells you that there are people who can't do anything to earn a living, watch out for those folks, they are probably government employees, and they likely don't do anything, yet still earn a living.


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

Lisa in WA said:


> It’s not fake outrage, sweetie. It’s real outrage.
> I live in the city.
> I know businesses that have been destroyed because people didn’t want to go there because of the homeless camped outside. Why should a business owner have to use a pooper scoop on human manure and hose off urine from his building every morning?
> I was assaulted and beaten by one of them Who was mentally ill and should have been locked up to protect the general public.
> ...


Maybe some do need to be hanged

Funny how the word hung isn't correct in that sentence.

Funny how I used the word sentence when suggesting someone be hung. Now I am lost, should it be hung, or hanged?


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## Redlands Okie (Nov 28, 2017)

Redlands Okie said:


> In such times as we are living and I see ILLEGAL immigrants being provided for and taken better care of than our homeless citizens we have a serious problem with reality. We seem to have no problem with putting the ILLEGAL immigrants in camps not of their choosing until we can provide the care and services that some seem to think they deserve. Yet we do not do the same for our own homeless citizens? Shame is not a sufficient term.





SLFarmMI said:


> So, "move along pal and to heck with you" is your solution?


Reread what I wrote. I am all for the move along part. What happens after that, “the heck with you” part is up to you to solve since it seems other suggested solutions do not appease you. Letting them stay and continue to invade the private areas and prevent the safe use of the public areas by ALL of the public is WRONG.


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## po boy (Jul 12, 2010)

HDRider said:


> Maybe some do need to be hanged
> 
> Funny how the word hung isn't correct in that sentence.
> 
> Funny how I used the word sentence when suggesting someone be hung. Now I am lost, should it be hung, or hanged?


Strung up!


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

po boy said:


> Strung up!


I overcomplicate everything


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## SLFarmMI (Feb 21, 2013)

HDRider said:


> Maybe some do need to be hanged
> 
> Funny how the word hung isn't correct in that sentence.
> 
> Funny how I used the word sentence when suggesting someone be hung. Now I am lost, should it be hung, or hanged?


People are hanged. Objects are hung. It is strange but sometimes grammar works in mysterious ways.


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## mreynolds (Jan 1, 2015)

HDRider said:


> Maybe some do need to be hanged
> 
> Funny how the word hung isn't correct in that sentence.
> 
> Funny how I used the word sentence when suggesting someone be hung. Now I am lost, should it be hung, or hanged?


Maybe it should have been hung. When someone visited my father he would always say, Come on over, we'll find I nail to hang you on.


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

I know for certain it is better to be hung, than to be hanged


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## mreynolds (Jan 1, 2015)

HDRider said:


> I know for certain it is better to be hung, than to be hanged


Yes and since we are talking about places for the homeless..... Hung is better.


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## NRA_guy (Jun 9, 2015)

Well, Austin, TX (A.K.A. "California East") became woke and rescinded laws that prohibited homeless camping on sidewalks.

Now they have become "re-woke", or asleep, or whatever follows the rude awakening of reality that follows after being "woke":

Austin reinstates camping ban

---------------------------
_Austin voters have approved Proposition B, which aims to reinstate the public camping ban that was reversed in July 2019. The results were 57% to 43%, with the majority voting to approve the proposition.

The camping ban makes it illegal to camp in any public area not designated by the Parks and Recreation Department; to sit or lie on a public sidewalk or sleep outdoors in and near the downtown area and the area around the University of Texas campus; and to panhandle at specific hours and locations._
----------------------------


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## Ziptie (May 16, 2013)

SLFarmMI said:


> Folks are proposing herding a specific group of people into one location and not letting them leave. Sure sounds like an internment camp.



I never said anything about not letting them leave. If they choose to try to live on public sidewalks or parks etc.they get shipped back to the encampment. It would be better then putting them in jail.


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## Redlands Okie (Nov 28, 2017)

Good for Austin.


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## muleskinner2 (Oct 7, 2007)

SLFarmMI said:


> When you propose forcing people into camps against their will you should hang your head in shame. If they freely choose to go there, that's one thing but forcing them there and holding them there against their will is wrong.


Ok, then put them in jail for criminal trespass, illegal drug possession, and creating a public health hazard. Have them declared a hazard to themselves and others, and lock them up. Then make it a condition of their sentence that they stay in a camp, until the are clean and sober, or find work. The majority of homeless don't go to public shelters because they are not allowed to commit crimes while in a shelter.


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## muleskinner2 (Oct 7, 2007)

SLFarmMI said:


> What's your solution for homelessness that addresses the root causes?


The root cause is they are junkies, drunks, and bums. And they have been allowed to get away with this unlawful behavior for so long they think it is their right. If the local government fail to address this problem with a real solution, the citizens will address it on their own.


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## SLFarmMI (Feb 21, 2013)

muleskinner2 said:


> The root cause is they are junkies, drunks, and bums. And they have been allowed to get away with this unlawful behavior for so long they think it is their right. If the local government fail to address this problem with a real solution, the citizens will address it on their own.


The root causes are many and they should be addressed rather than dismissing people as "junkies, drunks and bums".


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## muleskinner2 (Oct 7, 2007)

SLFarmMI said:


> The root causes are many and they should be addressed rather than dismissing people as "junkies, drunks and bums".


Ok, I'll bite. What are some of the many causes? Other than the junkies, drunks, and bums looking for a free ride?


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## SLFarmMI (Feb 21, 2013)

muleskinner2 said:


> Ok, I'll bite. What are some of the many causes? Other than the junkies, drunks, and bums looking for a free ride?


How about the woman who flees her home because she's fleeing domestic violence. She has no support system because abusers tend to isolate their victims. She has no money because he controls the money. Which one is she in your opinion -- junkie, drunk or bum looking for a free ride?

How about the teenager who was thrown out of the house for coming out? Which one is that kid in your opinion -- junkie, drunk or bum looking for a free ride?

How about the family that loses the main breadwinner? They were struggling to pay the bills and, with the loss of the major breadwinner, now they can't. Junkies, drunks or bums looking for a free ride in your opinion?

How about the man who suffers a disabling accident and can no longer work? SSI disability takes months to get an answer and often that answer is "no" requiring an appeal that takes more months. Is he a junkie, drunk or bum looking for a free ride?


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## barnbilder (Jul 1, 2005)

SLFarmMI said:


> People are hanged. Objects are hung. It is strange but sometimes grammar works in mysterious ways.


People can be hung, but that is a different matter entirely.


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## Evons hubby (Oct 3, 2005)

SLFarmMI said:


> How about the woman who flees her home because she's fleeing domestic violence. She has no support system because abusers tend to isolate their victims. She has no money because he controls the money. Which one is she in your opinion -- junkie, drunk or bum looking for a free ride?
> 
> How about the teenager who was thrown out of the house for coming out? Which one is that kid in your opinion -- junkie, drunk or bum looking for a free ride?
> 
> ...


And for each of those you mention there are literally hundreds if not thousands of drunks, junkies and bums.


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## Redlands Okie (Nov 28, 2017)

SLFarmMI said:


> How about the woman who flees her home because she's fleeing domestic violence. She has no support system because abusers tend to isolate their victims. She has no money because he controls the money. Which one is she in your opinion -- junkie, drunk or bum looking for a free ride?
> 
> How about the teenager who was thrown out of the house for coming out? Which one is that kid in your opinion -- junkie, drunk or bum looking for a free ride?
> 
> ...


In the communities I have lived in there are programs and good people who will assist each of those examples. Short term, to help then get back on their feet. After a while you can start to sort out those who are just abusing the help. Many are not willing and its hard for me to have sympathy for them.


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## GTX63 (Dec 13, 2016)




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## NRA_guy (Jun 9, 2015)

Do they drug test folks in government and charity owned shelters?

If not, they should. And put any who test positive in a rehab program. Second positive and they should go to jail unless they rat out their dealer---who should be prosecuted.

I think homeless shelters around here (Mississippi) limit the time occupants can stay in them.


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## stars at night (Mar 12, 2021)

Evons hubby said:


> That depends upon the options given. The vast majority will conform to the rules of the camp given the option of conforming or testing tensile strength of rope with their necks.


it is obivious you have not been to DC...where the homeless men do not conform, nor will you want to get near them to tensile their necks---lol. They have WEAPONS. And there are homeless turf fights all the time...some even have guns...these guys are mentally ill and don't know what a rule is...but go ahead, try to get a village together. They tried once in DC, built tiny homes and it all went away as fast as it was built...nice concept, tho.


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## GunMonkeyIntl (May 13, 2013)

muleskinner2 said:


> Ok, I'll bite. What are some of the many causes? Other than the junkies, drunks, and bums looking for a free ride?





Redlands Okie said:


> In the communities I have lived in there are programs and good people who will assist each of those examples. Short term, to help then get back on their feet. After a while you can start to sort out those who are just abusing the help. Many are not willing and its hard for me to have sympathy for them.


This is making it really difficult to have an honest discussion, and this same discourse appears to be what is taking place at the macro level, and why we’ll never get to any workable solution.

The vast, vast majority of the homeless are junkies, drunks, and bums; no doubt. The vast majority of the slim minority who don’t fall into one of those those categories do qualify for some sort of assistance (as do the majority of the junkies, drunks, and bums, actually), but, even with all of those folks taken out of the mix, there are still some who don’t fit.

Out of every few thousand of the JDBLs (junkies, drunks, bums, and lazy folk) there are a handful of wrecked combat vets who may qualify for assistance, but can’t bring themselves to trust anyone in power to give them assistance. At least one or two out of every several-thousand JDBLs is someone who just wants to live like that. Then there’s the examples we’d never even think of until we met them, and probably have our world-view checked at the same time. These aren’t the people we’re worried about. They don’t take drugs, would never steal, and have too much shame to defecate where a playing child might get into it.

It’s of incredible importance, in my opinion, to avoid sweeping these folks up with the JDBLs. We’re American and we’re better than that. We don’t punish the innocent out of convenience or intellectual laziness. Willingly doing so will strip us of our Americanness.

I look at it the same way I do the civil-disarmament movement (ie. “Gun Control”). The vast majority of gun owners will never hurt anyone, yet the civil-disarmament movement predicates on punishing the lawful for the acts of the criminal. Disarming Bob the plumber does no good to protect us from Joe the drug runner. It’s not supposed to. For every Joe, there’s a thousand Bobs. It’s really just a push to disarm Bob.

Even when I transpose the ratios of JDBLs to eccentrics that we see in the homeless, I still end up at the same place. If the vast, vast majority of gun owners were violent criminals, I still can’t find the logic in disarming Bob. That’s not the American way, no matter the ratio of good-guys to bad-guys. We punish the bad, and protect the Liberty of the good. That’s what we do, lest we cease to be who we are.

Dealing with the homelessness crisis should be simple, if not a fair bit of work. Unfortunately, the politics and side-choosing gets in the way, but we have a workable formula for this.

See a smelly homeless person pooping on the sidewalk: make them clean it up, put them in cuffs and take them to a very uncomfortable jail.

See a smelly homeless person pooping on the sidewalk and, in the process of arresting them, discover that they’re crazy, get them to a mental health treatment center.

See a smelly homeless person shooting up heroin, arrest them and get them into treatment. See them do it again, and let them detox the hard way in jail.

See a smelly homeless person rough up a woman or child; throw them in the clink, and make sure their cell mates know why they’re there.

See a smelly homeless person minding their own business; smile and wave, or don’t. Maybe offer to buy them a sandwich.


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## Evons hubby (Oct 3, 2005)

GunMonkeyIntl said:


> This is making it really difficult to have an honest discussion, and this same discourse appears to be what is taking place at the macro level, and why we’ll never get to any workable solution.
> 
> The vast, vast majority of the homeless are junkies, drunks, and bums; no doubt. The vast majority of the slim minority who don’t fall into one of those those categories do qualify for some sort of assistance (as do the majority of the junkies, drunks, and bums, actually), but, even with all of those folks taken out of the mix, there are still some who don’t fit.
> 
> ...


That’s why we need to sort them as we sweep. Put each one where they need to be. But we need to get them off of the streets. There is nothing unamerican about rehab for junkies, detox for drunks, jail for criminals or buying lunch for the poor.


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

GunMonkeyIntl said:


> It’s of incredible importance, in my opinion, to avoid sweeping these folks up with the JDBLs. We’re American and we’re better than that. We don’t punish the innocent out of convenience or intellectual laziness. Willingly doing so will strip us of our Americanness.


This is as @Nevada like I've seen you get.

No one is proposing sending those who are salvageable into the management techniques of those who cannot be saved.

Honestly, the sentiment most apparent to me in the many post is that we never seem to give up hope that any and all of them, no matter how far they have fallen, can some way, some day be redeemed. That is what Americanism means to me, that and never losing hope, thinking we can solve any problem.


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## GunMonkeyIntl (May 13, 2013)

HDRider said:


> This is as @Nevada like I've seen you get.
> 
> No one is proposing sending those who are salvageable into the management techniques of those who cannot be saved.
> 
> Honestly, the sentiment most apparent to me in the many post is that we never seem to give up hope that any and all of them, no matter how far they have fallen, can some way, some day be redeemed. That is what Americanism means to me, that and never losing hope, thinking we can solve any problem.


Seriously.

This is a topic I would have bowed out of, as I really don’t care that much, until I saw a couple posters suggesting we round up an entire class of people and inter them, FDR-Japanese(American) style, and one even suggest that we use those who chose to leave that interment to test the tensile strength of rope.

You can try to cast my view however you like, but my position is always, consistently, one stake: we are Americans, we’re better than everyone else, and sometimes the Liberty that our forefathers shed blood for, to gift this heathen world with, comes with inconveniences.

One of us suggested re-committing FDR’s most shameful sin.
The other one is me.
I’m good with that.


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## Redlands Okie (Nov 28, 2017)

stars at night said:


> it is obivious you have not been to DC...where the homeless men do not conform, nor will you want to get near them to tensile their necks---lol. They have WEAPONS. And there are homeless turf fights all the time...some even have guns...these guys are mentally ill and don't know what a rule is...but go ahead, try to get a village together. They tried once in DC, built tiny homes and it all went away as fast as it was built...nice concept, tho.


This can be handled. Just takes a firm hand and someone willing to forget about being politically correct and hurting feelings.


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## Evons hubby (Oct 3, 2005)

GunMonkeyIntl said:


> Seriously.
> 
> This is a topic I would have bowed out of, as I really don’t care that much, until I saw a couple posters suggesting we round up an entire class of people and inter them, FDR-Japanese(American) style, and one even suggest that we use those who chose to leave that interment to test the tensile strength of rope.
> 
> ...


Glad I’m not the one that ever suggested we round up an entire class of people and inter them fdr style. I recommend treatment facilities to care for our less fortunate citizens who may end up dying in our streets.


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## Rodeo's Bud (Apr 10, 2020)

SLFarmMI said:


> How about the woman who flees her home because she's fleeing domestic violence. She has no support system because abusers tend to isolate their victims. She has no money because he controls the money. Which one is she in your opinion -- junkie, drunk or bum looking for a free ride?
> 
> How about the teenager who was thrown out of the house for coming out? Which one is that kid in your opinion -- junkie, drunk or bum looking for a free ride?
> 
> ...


If there weren't a system overwhelming amount of drunks, junkies and bums, there would be plenty of resources to help those that truly need and want help.

The homeless I know want to stay on the streets. They prefer it.

Not a viable option if you are pissing and dumping on the street, or leaving needles in the public park play area.


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## Evons hubby (Oct 3, 2005)

Rodeo's Bud said:


> If there weren't a system overwhelming amount of drunks, junkies and bums, there would be plenty of resources to help those that truly need and want help.
> 
> The homeless I know want to stay on the streets. They prefer it.
> 
> Not a viable option if you are pissing and dumping on the street, or leaving needles in the public park play area.


The thieves I’ve met want to remain free too. We can’t always have what we want.


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

GunMonkeyIntl said:


> One of us suggested re-committing FDR’s most shameful sin.
> The other one is me.
> I’m good with that.


You doubled down on your @Nevada ness. I never suggested such a a thing. Actually it is impossible to even compare the two things.


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## Evons hubby (Oct 3, 2005)

HDRider said:


> You doubled down on your @Nevada ness. I never suggested such a a thing. Actually it is impossible to even compare the two things.


Never say impossible, some take it as a challenge.


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## muleskinner2 (Oct 7, 2007)

SLFarmMI said:


> How about the woman who flees her home because she's fleeing domestic violence. She has no support system because abusers tend to isolate their victims. She has no money because he controls the money. Which one is she in your opinion -- junkie, drunk or bum looking for a free ride?
> 
> How about the teenager who was thrown out of the house for coming out? Which one is that kid in your opinion -- junkie, drunk or bum looking for a free ride?
> 
> ...


The woman fleeing violence can pick up the phone and call 911, they will direct her to a battered woman's shelter. Everyone else on your list should be glad there would be a place to go. A camp where they could stay till they can get on their feet. Of course they would have to refrain from booze, and illegal drugs while staying there. I often encountered these people when I was a Deputy, and the majority of them are self medicating and won't go to a shelter because the shelters have these terrible things called rules. 

Everyone on your list would benefit from a camp, where they would have shelter, food, and medical care. Or they could just stay on the street, and slowly starve to death.


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## muleskinner2 (Oct 7, 2007)

GunMonkeyIntl said:


> This is making it really difficult to have an honest discussion, and this same discourse appears to be what is taking place at the macro level, and why we’ll never get to any workable solution.
> 
> The vast, vast majority of the homeless are junkies, drunks, and bums; no doubt. The vast majority of the slim minority who don’t fall into one of those those categories do qualify for some sort of assistance (as do the majority of the junkies, drunks, and bums, actually), but, even with all of those folks taken out of the mix, there are still some who don’t fit.
> 
> ...



I agree, but we can't know who is who until we begin sorting them out. If someone like the old vet, or just someone who want's to live on their own isn't harming anyone, or causing a health hazard. I would suggest just leave them alone. They would be more of a traveler, than a homeless junkie. 

In any kind of large scale attempt at a solution, there will be a few harmless people swept up with the herd. Give them a meal, a free medical check up, refill their legal medications, and let them go on their way. There will always be a few who don't fit in, and roam the world at will.


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## GTX63 (Dec 13, 2016)

A hobo is a homeless vagrant, especially one who is impoverished. The term originated in the United States during the 19th century.
Unlike a "tramp", who works only when forced to, and a "bum", who does not work at all, a "hobo" is a traveling worker.


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## jeepgrrl (Jun 3, 2020)

barnbilder said:


> People can be hung, but that is a different matter entirely.


I’m usually hung every Saturday morning. Draft beer will do that to me.


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## muleskinner2 (Oct 7, 2007)

GTX63 said:


> A hobo is a homeless vagrant, especially one who is impoverished. The term originated in the United States during the 19th century.
> Unlike a "tramp", who works only when forced to, and a "bum", who does not work at all, a "hobo" is a traveling worker.


I lived and worked all over the western states until I was thirty two years old. I lived out of an old International Travelall, and moved with the seasons. I was homeless, in the traditional sense. Because I didn't have any huge debt I traveled the world and worked many different jobs. I would park that old truck at a friends house for months at a time, and work overseas. I was homeless, but not a burden, and I loved it. So I understand the feeling of freedom people have, and want to maintain. 

But, living in a tent on the sidewalk, shooting up your drug of choice, and crapping in the street isn't freedom. It is a very slow form of suicide, and it trashes up the neighbor hood. Having a wide range of services, free clinic, homeless shelters, job services, ect. Spread over a huge area isn't practical, for someone without transportation. If they are living in a homeless camp without services, and no good way to get around. Then a camp with all of the services in one place, with running water and flush toilets makes sense. Of course it ain't McDonalds and you won't get everything your way. Tough crap, life is a *****, deal with it.


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## keenataz (Feb 17, 2009)

Evons hubby said:


> Again with the “camps” nonsense”. Try rehab center. Or mental health care facility, maybe even educational therapy facility. Pick any label you like for a centrally Located facility that provides the needed care and training required to enable the homeless a better life than living on our streets.


Who is going to pay for all this, who is going to pay for their treatment?


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## keenataz (Feb 17, 2009)

Evons hubby said:


> Is a hospital an internment camp?
> is a rehab center an internment camp?
> is an elementary school an internment camp?
> is a prison an internment camp?


You leave a hospital after treatment, you go to school then go home at end of the day, You go to a rehab denter voluntarily and can leave if you want, a prison is a prison.

You are being absurd


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## Evons hubby (Oct 3, 2005)

keenataz said:


> Who is going to pay for all this, who is going to pay for their treatment?


The rich fat cats of course!


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## Evons hubby (Oct 3, 2005)

keenataz said:


> You leave a hospital after treatment, you go to school then go home at end of the day, You go to a rehab denter voluntarily and can leave if you want, a prison is a prison.
> 
> You are being absurd


I might be, but deep down you know I’m correct. Centralized care facilities are not enternment camps.


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## GTX63 (Dec 13, 2016)

muleskinner2 said:


> I lived and worked all over the western states until I was thirty two years old. I lived out of an old International Travelall, and moved with the seasons. I was homeless, in the traditional sense. Because I didn't have any huge debt I traveled the world and worked many different jobs. I would park that old truck at a friends house for months at a time, and work overseas. I was homeless, but not a burden, and I loved it. So I understand the feeling of freedom people have, and want to maintain.
> 
> But, living in a tent on the sidewalk, shooting up your drug of choice, and crapping in the street isn't freedom. It is a very slow form of suicide, and it trashes up the neighbor hood. Having a wide range of services, free clinic, homeless shelters, job services, ect. Spread over a huge area isn't practical, for someone without transportation. If they are living in a homeless camp without services, and no good way to get around. Then a camp with all of the services in one place, with running water and flush toilets makes sense. Of course it ain't McDonalds and you won't get everything your way. Tough crap, life is a ***, deal with it.


The generation before me still considered hobo's differently that the guy folded up in a doorway with his heel in a pile of feces.
Of course my mother came from a time when one could set a hot pie on the window sill and expect a traveler passing thru to carry a wood pile inside or clean out the gutters for his supper. Today? Yeah boy....


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## GunMonkeyIntl (May 13, 2013)

HDRider said:


> You doubled down on your @Nevada ness. I never suggested such a a thing. Actually it is impossible to even compare the two things.


But that’s exactly what you did; “compared the two things”. You showed a picture of a homeless encampment (which we don’t know was breaking any laws, to be honest), and a picture of one of FDR’s interment camps for Americans of Japanese origin/descent, and said “one looks better than the other”. So, whether you were overtly saying that we should put the homeless in interment camps or not, you did say clearly that you found one more palatable than the other.


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## GunMonkeyIntl (May 13, 2013)

muleskinner2 said:


> I agree, but we can't know who is who until we begin sorting them out. If someone like the old vet, or just someone who want's to live on their own isn't harming anyone, or causing a health hazard. I would suggest just leave them alone. They would be more of a traveler, than a homeless junkie.
> 
> In any kind of large scale attempt at a solution, there will be a few harmless people swept up with the herd. Give them a meal, a free medical check up, refill their legal medications, and let them go on their way. There will always be a few who don't fit in, and roam the world at will.


I can respect that, but that’s a keystone of the American Liberty. We don’t (or shouldn’t) detain people until they can prove they’ve done nothing wrong.

That’s why I likened it to the civil-disarmament movement. There are those who think it’s not only acceptable, but right even, to make you prove your need and right to bear arms to protect yourself. They’re steadily moving the perceived window of what Liberty truly is in order to make that OK.

My answer to sweeping them up and sorting them out would take exactly the same approach: arrest them when they break the law, but smile and wave until they do. If an encampment is set up in a place where simply being there is against the law, then round them all up and sort them out.

But, if their being there isn’t against the law (which it is not in a lot of these places- a topic for a whole separate debate) then how can we sweep them all up? The rule-of-law approach is to watch them closely, police them heavily, and, when one is caught pooping/snorting/harassing or doing any of the other things that encroach on another’s Liberty, then we arrest them, and sort them out.

If we expect our neighbors to respect the rule of law, we have to respect it ourselves.


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

GunMonkeyIntl said:


> But that’s exactly what you did; “compared the two things”. You showed a picture of a homeless encampment (which we don’t know was breaking any laws, to be honest), and a picture of one of FDR’s interment camps for Americans of Japanese origin/descent, and said “one looks better than the other”. So, whether you were overtly saying that we should put the homeless in interment camps or not, you did say clearly that you found one more palatable than the other.


I guess the idea of a picture being worth a thousand words is really 2,000 words, the ones you got, and the ones I meant. 

PS - I think it is established fact the homeless tent cities are breaking laws. From August 2, 2016 - They tried to legalize it, but Portland Mayor Charlie Hales on Tuesday announced the end of pilot program that allowed homeless people to sleep on the streets undisturbed by law enforcement, saying it created confusion because some believed it legalized public camping, but defended his overall approach.


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## muleskinner2 (Oct 7, 2007)

GunMonkeyIntl said:


> The rule-of-law approach is to watch them closely, police them heavily, and, when one is caught pooping/snorting/harassing or doing any of the other things that encroach on another’s Liberty, then we arrest them, and sort them out.


In a perfect world this is how it would be done. As it is right now, these encampments are often cleared on a regular basis, the police along with garbage trucks simply clear the area throwing away everything and leaving the homeless with even less. This is just stupid, but then again most kneejerk reactions are. This problem will never be really solved, they will continue to throw millions of dollars at it, and hope something sticks.


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## NRA_guy (Jun 9, 2015)

Well, if the government won't solve it, maybe the locals will (or maybe it's a self-correcting problem):

----------------------------------------------------------

*Homeless encampments account for 54% of fires in Los Angeles*

As the homeless crisis in Los Angeles continues to surge, the city is facing a growing number of fires at encampments, according to reports Wednesday. 

Fires related to homelessness have nearly tripled in the three years since the Los Angeles Fire Department started classifying them, LAFD officials said. 

*In the first quarter of 2021, they occurred at a rate of 24 a day, and made up 54% of all blazes the department responded to, the Los Angeles Times reported*. 

The increase in fires comes as the number of tents, makeshift shelters, and campers in Los Angeles has also surged. With more tents, comes more heaters and propane tanks used for cooking, FOX 11 of Los Angeles reported. 

Armando Hogan, the deputy chief for operations of the LAFD's West Bureau, questioned the root cause for the growing number of fires. 

"Is it a simple matter of these folks just need a place to go and eat? Is it a bigger matter of individuals having problems with each other in the encampments? Is it just a warming issue?" he said. 

*However, not all fires are accidental. 

On May 3, a video showed someone throwing something into a tent at the Venice Beach boardwalk, before it becomes engulfed in flames.*

At least seven homeless people died in fires in 2020. *Fires ignited near businesses have also caused tens of millions of dollars in damage, according to the Los Angeles Times.

Link*
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

But it's not just Los Angeles. Other cities with large homeless populations are seeing the same problem:

*Link*


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## GTX63 (Dec 13, 2016)

Doesn't LA have fire codes requiring smoke detectors and sprinkler systems?
Start passing out fines and court dates and maybe these bums will get their appliance boxes up to standards.


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## Mish (Oct 15, 2015)

NRA_guy said:


> Well, if the government won't solve it, maybe the locals will (or maybe it's a self-correcting problem):
> 
> ----------------------------------------------------------
> 
> ...


It's a thing in most of southern California, not just LA. We had a major fire this Christmas near my house that originated in an area known to the locals as a homeless hangout. We're quite rural for southern California, but even we have our share of homeless people living down on the creek that is easily reached from the nearest village, and those fires tend to get out of control really quickly due to all of the dry California brush/trees and few people to see them before they're out of control. That fire burned more than 4,200 acres before it was contained, we were packed and ready to go as it got less than a mile from our house at one point.

Of course you rarely hear what actually caused the fire if it originated in a homeless camp, makes the politicians look bad. It's still "under investigation," but everyone who lives out here has a pretty good idea of what happened because we see the cook fires (and people drinking/drugging, sleeping on the side of the creek and road) when we drive by going to town. Fact of life out here the last 5 years or so.


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## muleskinner2 (Oct 7, 2007)

I see where some of the cities in California are talking about, Managed Camps. Gee, wish I had thought of that.


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## Lisa in WA (Oct 11, 2004)

My daughter was walking home yesterday evening when she noticed a homeless guy following closely behind her on the mostly empty sidewalk. He bumped into her several times and she was terrified. Got her bf on the phone and he met her in front of the apartment building , where the creep stood and stared for about five minutes.
I think she needs a taser And to not walk home at dusk.


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

Lisa in WA said:


> My daughter was walking home yesterday evening when she noticed a homeless guy following closely behind her on the mostly empty sidewalk. He bumped into her several times and she was terrified. Got her bf on the phone and he met her in front of the apartment building , where the creep stood and stared for about five minutes.
> I think she needs a taser And to not walk home at dusk.


Get her one of those knock-him-on-his-ass tasers


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

And go to taser school


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## Evons hubby (Oct 3, 2005)

HDRider said:


> Get her one of those knock-him-on-his-ass tasers


Smith & Wesson makes some good ones.


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## Lisa in WA (Oct 11, 2004)

Problem is that she is in and out of the courthouse and jail. Don’t know how they handle that.


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## Evons hubby (Oct 3, 2005)

Lisa in WA said:


> Problem is that she is in and out of the courthouse and jail. Don’t know how they handle that.


Check it in on her way in, pick it up on way out.


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## Pony (Jan 6, 2003)

Lisa in WA said:


> why they want to do away with single family zoning?
> Because they think if they throw up apartments the homeless won’t be homeless anymore.


Or something a little more ominous.

DH shared this link with me today. I haven't researched it yet, but it does seem to answer a few questions.

Blackrock is buying every single family house they can find, paying 20-50% above asking price and outbidding normal home buyers


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## mreynolds (Jan 1, 2015)

Pony said:


> Or something a little more ominous.
> 
> DH shared this link with me today. I haven't researched it yet, but it does seem to answer a few questions.
> 
> Blackrock is buying every single family house they can find, paying 20-50% above asking price and outbidding normal home buyers


I read that a few weeks ago in a realtor rag. 

Here is what I see as the problem with them doing that. 

1. They are buying houses above appraisal. Way above. They can't possibly hope to come out on that in the long run. 

2. If they buy the middle class out, ( like that article suggests) who will they sell/rent to? They will have to drop the price. 

The only thing that will reset with Black Rock is their balance sheet. Just give it 3 more years.


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## Pony (Jan 6, 2003)

mreynolds said:


> I read that a few weeks ago in a realtor rag.
> 
> Here is what I see as the problem with them doing that.
> 
> ...


1) Perhaps coming out on that in the long run may not be their game.

2) The middle class. They may or may not have to drop the price, but it will certainly decrease private ownership of real estate. "You'll own nothing, and you'll like it."


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

Lisa in WA said:


> Problem is that she is in and out of the courthouse and jail. Don’t know how they handle that.


Could she carry a taser in?


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## Lisa in WA (Oct 11, 2004)

HDRider said:


> Could she carry a taser in?


I don’t think so. She does carry pepper spray but not sure how they handle that. 
This is the problem though.
You wonder if you’re being overly paranoid and about to taze or spray someone who doesn’t have bad intentions. 
God knows, you spray the wrong person and you’ll lose your job, career, everything.


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## Rodeo's Bud (Apr 10, 2020)

Lisa in WA said:


> My daughter was walking home yesterday evening when she noticed a homeless guy following closely behind her on the mostly empty sidewalk. He bumped into her several times and she was terrified. Got her bf on the phone and he met her in front of the apartment building , where the creep stood and stared for about five minutes.
> I think she needs a taser And to not walk home at dusk.


How did he get close enough to bump in to her?


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## Rodeo's Bud (Apr 10, 2020)

mreynolds said:


> I read that a few weeks ago in a realtor rag.
> 
> Here is what I see as the problem with them doing that.
> 
> ...


They are funded by the government. They don't have to make money.

I am sure they are also tied into federal programs that send even more funding to them. Section 8, covid relief, etc.


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## The Paw (May 19, 2006)

mreynolds said:


> I read that a few weeks ago in a realtor rag.
> 
> Here is what I see as the problem with them doing that.
> 
> ...


Buying at 20% above appraisal is playing the long game. They are not buying to do a flip on short term market appreciation and/or a cosmetic makeover. I think they buy in, establish positive cashflow, and wait for the market to appreciate enough to overtake the premium they paid. They don't see being in the rental game as a necessary evil, it's a core strategy.

The link in the OP is too conspiratorial for my tastes, but the commodification of housing and the expansion of rental assets is a real thing. A market economy that is geared to primarily meet the needs of capital investors is going to function that way. A greater deal of economic democracy would be useful to address this, and cooperatives are a way to look at home ownership differently IMHO.


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## Mish (Oct 15, 2015)

Rodeo's Bud said:


> How did he get close enough to bump in to her?


If it's anything like here you have to walk through them unless you want to walk in the street (and even then...).


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## jeepgrrl (Jun 3, 2020)

Lisa in WA said:


> My daughter was walking home yesterday evening when she noticed a homeless guy following closely behind her on the mostly empty sidewalk. He bumped into her several times and she was terrified. Got her bf on the phone and he met her in front of the apartment building , where the creep stood and stared for about five minutes.
> I think she needs a taser And to not walk home at dusk.


If arming herself is not feasible/practical, could she take some self defense classes? Self defense training would build her confidence and empower her to protect herself. Many places offer the training and usually for free. Have her check with the local college/university or the YWCA. Also, she could get one of those cat head keyrings that functions as a tool for self defense (google "cat keyring self defense").


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## Lisa in WA (Oct 11, 2004)

jeepgrrl said:


> If arming herself is not feasible/practical, could she take some self defense classes? Self defense training would build her confidence and empower her to protect herself. Many places offer the training and usually for free. Have her check with the local college/university or the YWCA. Also, she could get one of those cat head keyrings that functions as a tool for self defense (google "cat keyring self defense").


That’s a great idea. I just told her this and she groaned. 
No tiiiiiiime….”
But I sent her a list of classes anyway. 
she does deal with some scary people as an attorney and as a young woman needs to be able to defend herself.


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## stars at night (Mar 12, 2021)

Lisa in WA said:


> That’s a great idea. I just told her this and she groaned.
> No tiiiiiiime….”
> But I sent her a list of classes anyway.
> she does deal with some scary people as an attorney and as a young woman needs to be able to defend herself.


I didn't know if she was an adult...but she is, so why isn't she getting a gun? License to carry concealed? When I was a nurse it was in a ghetto hospital. I had to walk to the car at night as i worked 2nd shift. There was no safe parking for staff other than the doctors. I carried concealed so every time I had to walk through the hood at midnight, I knew I would not hesitate to use it. Also I never acted like a potential victim with the body language, etc. I hope she stays safe!


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## mreynolds (Jan 1, 2015)

The Paw said:


> Buying at 20% above appraisal is playing the long game. They are not buying to do a flip on short term market appreciation and/or a cosmetic makeover. I think they buy in, establish positive cashflow, and wait for the market to appreciate enough to overtake the premium they paid. They don't see being in the rental game as a necessary evil, it's a core strategy.
> 
> The link in the OP is too conspiratorial for my tastes, but the commodification of housing and the expansion of rental assets is a real thing. A market economy that is geared to primarily meet the needs of capital investors is going to function that way. A greater deal of economic democracy would be useful to address this, and cooperatives are a way to look at home ownership differently IMHO.


I agree about the link but dont shoot the messenger. Just read between the messages. 

I disagree. If that is how they play the long game they are out of touch big time. Any successful investor knows you dont make make your money when you sell. You make your money when you buy. Nothing is guaranteed in the future. Especially appreciation. I know plenty of long game investors that hold for 20 plus years. They almost never buy above appraisal. Only is certain instances will they do that when they know something big is coming soon to that area.


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## Rodeo's Bud (Apr 10, 2020)

The Paw said:


> Buying at 20% above appraisal is playing the long game. They are not buying to do a flip on short term market appreciation and/or a cosmetic makeover. I think they buy in, establish positive cashflow, and wait for the market to appreciate enough to overtake the premium they paid. They don't see being in the rental game as a necessary evil, it's a core strategy.
> 
> The link in the OP is too conspiratorial for my tastes, but the commodification of housing and the expansion of rental assets is a real thing. A market economy that is geared to primarily meet the needs of capital investors is going to function that way. A greater deal of economic democracy would be useful to address this, and cooperatives are a way to look at home ownership differently IMHO.


It isn't a conspiracy if it's true.

Imagine how many houses they will buy once these non paying renters start defaulting and leave.

They will vacuum up foreclosed houses at will. With government blessing and funding.

Unlimited money, with unlimited backing makes for some scary stuff.

I am wanting to see what neighborhoods they are actually buying though. I read today they bought a large rental development. That isn't buying up neighborhoods, that is just buying up a bunch of rentals.

So, I am willing to put my tinfoil hat on lightly until I see more evidence.


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## mreynolds (Jan 1, 2015)

Rodeo's Bud said:


> It isn't a conspiracy if it's true.
> 
> Imagine how many houses they will buy once these non paying renters start defaulting and leave.
> 
> ...


I have heard the same thing. They are buying rentals.


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## muleskinner2 (Oct 7, 2007)

Lisa in WA said:


> Problem is that she is in and out of the courthouse and jail. Don’t know how they handle that.


Both the courthouse and the jail, will have lock boxes for weapons. Lock it up and take the key with you, get it back when you leave.


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## muleskinner2 (Oct 7, 2007)

Lisa in WA said:


> My daughter was walking home yesterday evening when she noticed a homeless guy following closely behind her on the mostly empty sidewalk. He bumped into her several times and she was terrified. Got her bf on the phone and he met her in front of the apartment building , where the creep stood and stared for about five minutes.
> I think she needs a taser And to not walk home at dusk.


After staring for five minutes, did the boy friend just let the perp walk away. Hmmm, interesting concept.


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## Lisa in WA (Oct 11, 2004)

muleskinner2 said:


> After staring for five minutes, did the boy friend just let the perp just walk away. Hmmm, interesting concept.


Yeah. That’s a good point. Her dad wouldn’t have.


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## muleskinner2 (Oct 7, 2007)

Lisa in WA said:


> Yeah. That’s a good point. Her dad wouldn’t have.


If he had followed and bumped into my wife, he would have left in a sack. And she wouldn't have bothered to call me at all.


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## Mish (Oct 15, 2015)

Rodeo's Bud said:


> It isn't a conspiracy if it's true.
> 
> Imagine how many houses they will buy once these non paying renters start defaulting and leave.
> 
> ...


My conspiracy people are saying housing riots is the next big incoming crisis, circling around that and other things.


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

Lisa in WA said:


> I don’t think so. She does carry pepper spray but not sure how they handle that.
> This is the problem though.
> You wonder if you’re being overly paranoid and about to taze or spray someone who doesn’t have bad intentions.
> God knows, you spray the wrong person and you’ll lose your job, career, everything.


You could lose all that if you tase the right person.


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## mreynolds (Jan 1, 2015)

Rodeo's Bud said:


> It isn't a conspiracy if it's true.
> 
> Imagine how many houses they will buy once these non paying renters start defaulting and leave.
> 
> ...



Here is one. 

Wall Street-backed landlords now own more than 11,000 single-family homes in Charlotte | UNC Charlotte Urban Institute | UNC Charlotte 


_Now, with the foreclosure crisis in the rearview mirror and a historic scarcity of homes for sale, single-family rental companies are still adding to their portfolios, pushing into the regular market with all-cash offers and even, in a few cases, building brand-new subdivisions entirely made up of single-family rental houses. With a focus on buying moderately priced houses, single-family rental companies are impacting the supply of starter homes, possibly pushing lower-income and first-time buyers out of the market._


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

From WSJ
Invitation Homes Inc., INVH -0.63% the country’s largest rental-home owner, on Wednesday disclosed a joint venture with Boston property investor Rockpoint Group LLC that will result in more than $1 billion for the landlord’s ongoing house hunt.

Invitation, which owns about 80,000 houses, has been buying at a clip of roughly $200 million a quarter since a pause at the onset of the coronavirus lockdown. It sold $448 million of new shares in June to fuel its expansion, and the agreement with Rockpoint will add enough cash to buy about 3,500 more homes, said Dallas Tanner, Invitation’s chief executive.


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## Ziptie (May 16, 2013)

Just talked to a younger family member who is in finance. They were talking about wanting to get the best bang for their buck and thinking about investing in these type of company's(ones that are investing in RE) with their money. He has been talking to them and they are saying that they are not losing any money due to the rental restrictions etc and that if a renter does not pay rent they have easy ways to get the money back after the renter moves out.
Hmm...I am not a finance guru and I can't put my finger on it yet why I see this not ending well..


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## The Paw (May 19, 2006)

mreynolds said:


> I agree about the link but dont shoot the messenger. Just read between the messages.
> 
> I disagree. If that is how they play the long game they are out of touch big time. Any successful investor knows you dont make make your money when you sell. You make your money when you buy. Nothing is guaranteed in the future. Especially appreciation. I know plenty of long game investors that hold for 20 plus years. They almost never buy above appraisal. Only is certain instances will they do that when they know something big is coming soon to that area.


I think institutional investors operate differently than individual investors. The pension plans and others behind these kind of REITs are happy to monetize it as a rental asset and rely less on appreciation. They are executing a business strategy that looks at a couple of factors: (a) the ever increasing wealth gap, and (b) increasing productivity through automation. Both of these factors suggest that there are going to be fewer homeowners and more renters in the near future. Loading up on rental inventory is getting ahead of that development.


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## mreynolds (Jan 1, 2015)

The Paw said:


> I think institutional investors operate differently than individual investors. The pension plans and others behind these kind of REITs are happy to monetize it as a rental asset and rely less on appreciation. They are executing a business strategy that looks at a couple of factors: (a) the ever increasing wealth gap, and (b) increasing productivity through automation. Both of these factors suggest that there are going to be fewer homeowners and more renters in the near future. Loading up on rental inventory is getting ahead of that development.


I agree. I am buying also.


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

Portland’s 50-person riot squad resigned in protest Wednesday in solidarity with one of their colleagues who was indicted for striking a Marxist hiding behind a press pass.



The resignations are effective immediately, according to the Portland Police Bureau, and come after the indictment on Tuesday of Officer Corey Budworth, for assault during and incident in which he struck ‘photographer’ Teri Jacobs in the head during a riot last August.









Portland's riot squad RESIGNS after cop indicted for assault


All 50 of the Portland police's rapid response unit resigned Wednesday after the indictment of fellow officer Corey Budworth for assault during a riot last August.




www.dailymail.co.uk


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## Redlands Okie (Nov 28, 2017)

Guess that reporter should have been leaving the area instead of trying to block the police officer with multiple strikes of her shield being used against the officer. I certainly do not blame them for quitting. Would not be surprised that they only remain on the police force to try to save their retirment.


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## GTX63 (Dec 13, 2016)

She was paid 50k by the city as a settlement.


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## Redlands Okie (Nov 28, 2017)

She should be paying part of the cost to restore the city from the damages and expenses caused by the riot. To receive one penny from participating is ridiculous.


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