# Would this work (2 pyr)?



## Parttimefarmer (May 5, 2011)

My mom is considering a LSG for the farm (we have a farm with house my parents live at year round and a separate house we live at school time). There is a predator imbalance at the moment, lots of coyotes, bobcats, foxes, etc. The neighbor across the way has a Great Pry mix that keeps his property safe when the coyotes are making kills not far from the house. We have chickens (safe here at the time), would like to add other poultry, pigs and cattle. 

We found a working pair of parents local with 4 puppies left. Could my parents buy one, we buy one, raise them together over the summer, then bring one "home" for the school year, but take it back next year so it stays with us full time? Could they share space if from the same litter and raised/socialized together? Also, my parents have a lab, we have a hound, both very social and good with other dogs.


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## Cheryl aka JM (Aug 7, 2007)

I'm not sure I understand~ you want to take one of the dogs "home" for the school year as in to another property where s/he will still be gaurding stock...or your planning to make the dog a house pet during that time?

part time House pet~ no I don't think that will work. I've heard of people allowing their LGDs inside thier homes on occasion~ but I would have to beat and bribe my dogs to get them inside! I'm kidding about the beating I wouldn't beat my dogs, just making the point that a good working dog knows his/her job and doesn't want to be inside where they can't see whats going on outside.

If your asking can the dog change locations and still work~ I don't see why not. I have four different pasture/yard areas I move my dogs between to watch chickens, geese, cattle, goats and pigs and for the most part they have no problem with it. My Grt Pyr refuses to believe pigs are not predators so I stopped putting him in with the pigs when it became clear the predator I was losing piglets to was my LGD (the Anatolian works with them just fine) so you do have to take the dogs personality and intelligence into account. But otherwise~ I'm sure my dogs would work in any pasture I put them in as long as there were not pigs with the grt pyr!

Two dogs working together are better than one dog. My dogs will work alone~ but they are much more serious as a team. Fun to watch them work. The grt pyr is the "alarm" if he is barking there is something to pay attention to. The anatolian is the "assassin" if she silent she is coming up behind whatever the grt pyr is distracting!


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## Parttimefarmer (May 5, 2011)

Take one dog "home", yes. That dog would be more of a house pet, guard to the "livestock" of 5 kids and 12 chickens. Maybe I need a different breed for here? Having a good guard or two at the farm is the most important thing right now. We have no bunnies, squirrels, or little animals left. The raccoons are out during the day, the balance seems very off.

My concern is if there is a farm LGD dog, can I bring another LGD into it's space? I am at the farm all summer and most weekends/holidays. I take the kids and dog to the farm. I don't want to walk into a problem I could have seen coming.


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## Fowler (Jul 8, 2008)

I would keep them as a pair...why do you need to take one away?....2 are better then one....if you have a pack of coyotes ...how will one fight off a pack?...why do you want to take one back to town where it has nothing to do?...you stated yourself that there is "lots of coyotes, bobcats, foxes, etc"...so I am asking why would you want to seperate them?

Take this comment with a grain of salt ....I am only inquiring why?


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## Parttimefarmer (May 5, 2011)

Fowler said:


> I would keep them as a pair...why do you need to take one away?....2 are better then one....if you have a pack of coyotes ...how will one fight off a pack?...why do you want to take one back to town where it has nothing to do?...you stated yourself that there is "lots of coyotes, bobcats, foxes, etc"...so I am asking why would you want to seperate them?
> 
> Take this comment with a grain of salt ....I am only inquiring why?


Oh, not offended! I don't know enough to know what I don't know. 

We have a good sized house and lot in a township, 12 chickens. A few friendly raccoons & foxes, neighbor hunting labs, and birds of prey that like to come over to snack. We lost 6 ducks last year, one chicken this spring. I am thinking a dog with some protection instincts would be nice here too. Since we truly need that for the farm, could I use that here too, or is it not enough to do? I figured since we are going to do the puppy raising, training, socializing with kids and animals, we might as well do it all at one time. It very well may be that a different dog would be a better fit.


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## Fowler (Jul 8, 2008)

My only worry...is taking away one of the dogs.....and bringing it back to the farm where the other guard dog lives and protects..you may be creating issues...the town dog now being a threat to the farm dog's livestock?....or dominance issues?....you do realize that most LGD's bark a lot?....will that work being in town?

I am far beyond being an expert...I am still in training......hopefully other's such as Cheryl, Barefoot, Goatress will chime in to better answer your question.


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

> We have a good sized house and lot in a township,


Pyrs need LOTS of room to roam.

I don't think you have enough, and unless it's TOTALLY enclosed, your dog *will not *stay on your property


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## Parttimefarmer (May 5, 2011)

Fowler said:


> My only worry...is taking away one of the dogs.....and bringing it back to the farm where the other guard dog lives and protects..you may be creating issues...the town dog now being a threat to the farm dog's livestock?....or dominance issues?....you do realize that most LGD's bark a lot?....will that work being in town?
> 
> I am far beyond being an expert...I am still in training......hopefully other's such as Cheryl, Barefoot, Goatress will chime in to better answer your question.


That is my worry too. I do know they bark, I like it more than a coyote howl though  

Sounds like the Great Pyr should stay on 40 acres instead of 1 acre. We'll still get them in summer so they can socialize the kids and other dogs, but not take one back.


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## Parttimefarmer (May 5, 2011)

Bearfootfarm said:


> Pyrs need LOTS of room to roam.
> 
> I don't think you have enough, and unless it's TOTALLY enclosed, your dog *will not *stay on your property


40 acre farm is big enough though? I don't need a mega farm I hope?


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## Fowler (Jul 8, 2008)

Parttimefarmer said:


> That is my worry too. I do know they bark, I like it more than a coyote howl though
> 
> Sounds like the Great Pyr should stay on 40 acres instead of 1 acre. We'll still get them in summer so they can socialize the kids and other dogs, but not take one back.



LOL...me too I'll take a barking over a coyote howl anyday...LOL

and yes 40 acres is great!!....especially for 2 dogs...however how is your fencing?


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## Mrs. Mucket (Apr 22, 2010)

If I were you I would probably keep the two LGDs together as a team year-round at the farm and get yourself another dog for your other home. I think that would be best for the LGDs and the predator situation at the farm. 

Whether the LGDs would accept your other dog when it comes to the farm is a question that's hard to answer until you introduce them. As far as I understand (others, please pipe up!) the best dog to bring into LGD territory is a neutered male that will respect the LGDs as alpha. We have successfully introduced our kids' male dog who is welcome by our male and female LGDs when he visits as long as he follows their rules. All the dogs are neutered. Two of our kids' families recently got spayed females and we still have to go through the intros and see how that turns out. We may need to fence in a "visiting dog corral" outside the LGD territory.

Here's a suggestion: bring two LGD pups and a third "home dog" to the farm at the same time. This way the LGDs will consider the dog part of the normal farm situation. Have them all spend the summer together and hopefully the LGDs will have no problem accepting the other dog when it comes on weekends.


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## Fowler (Jul 8, 2008)

Mrs. Mucket said:


> Here's a suggestion: bring two LGD pups and a third "home dog" to the farm at the same time. This way the LGDs will consider the dog part of the normal farm situation. Have them all spend the summer together and hopefully the LGDs will have no problem accepting the other dog when it comes on weekends.


I love it!!...Great suggestion!!!.....because the other dog will be like a family member visiting.....just like my grandkids when they come to visit....I thinks it's a brilliant idea.:goodjob:


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## Parttimefarmer (May 5, 2011)

Fowler said:


> LOL...me too I'll take a barking over a coyote howl anyday...LOL
> 
> and yes 40 acres is great!!....especially for 2 dogs...however how is your fencing?


The fields have combo wood electric and barbed wire. It was set up for dairy goats and percherons, some of the fencing is over my head. The house and barn are not fenced, except the paddock off the barn.


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

> 40 acre farm is big enough though? I don't need a mega farm I hope?


Anything over about 5 acres is suitable, but no matter how big, the dogs need to be *contained* just like the livestock


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## wolffeathers (Dec 20, 2010)

They are roamers and barkers. Not just a little barker, a lot of really loud barker. ALL NIGHT LONG! If you have close neighbors, I would highly suggest not having a Pyr in a neighborhood, unless it was going to be strictly an inside house dog. That way you don't get fines and tickets for a barking dog.

Make sure your fence can keep in a dog determined to get out. We have goats, so we thought our fence would surely keep in a dog. WRONG. We patched fence and holes under the fence for the first 3 months until there were none left. Those big dogs can squeeze through mighty small holes!

Keep the Pyrs on the farm if the fence is able to withstand their test. Get another dog for the house and lot. With just a house and lot to guard, just about any large breed of dog will keep it free from most pests. A lab, while not a LGD, will still protect his "yard" from raccoons and other invaders.


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## Lannie (Jan 11, 2004)

I was just going to say something about the fencing.  When we got our first one, I STUPIDLY thought the 4 strands of barbed wire on the road frontage would keep him in. HA! He barely had to duck! :smack So we put field fencing up along that while he cooled his heels in the shop. Then he went out UNDER the gate, right in front of me. I had to go get a tape measure because that was IMPOSSIBLE. It's 8 inches from the gravel to the bottom of the bottom bar, and it took him about 3 seconds to go under it.

Another thing I've heard about most Pyrs (and ours definitely has this trait), is that when they get out, they become deaf. I followed ours for over half a mile, across thorns and prickly stuff IN MY SHORTS in 100 degree heat, and the only way I was able to catch up was because he stopped to pee all over a dead deer. The second time he got out (this happened so many times because he'd find a hole we missed) I couldn't catch up, so I went home and he showed up about an hour later, waiting patiently at the gate. He doesn't try to escape much anymore, maybe he's getting used to being here after 2 years, but if he does, I just grit my teeth and wait for him to come back. He always comes back, but only when HE wants to.

On the other hand, our Pyr/Anatolian cross female always comes when we call. She was getting out over the winter when we had snowdrifts over the fences (we can only shovel so fast), but if I saw her out and called her, she'd come right back. So it's not ALWAYS true, but be prepared nonetheless.

By the way, I also second getting the Pyr puppies and the "house" dog at the same time. Our Pyrs are fine with our "house" dogs, although we do have a separate area fenced off for our house dogs because I don't want them running through the chickens or getting hurt by the horses or the cows accidentally. They're not wise in the ways of "livestock," bless their hearts. Frequently, though, we all go for a "pack walk," all four dogs and me, in the house dogs' yard. They have fun playing for a while, then the Pyrs go back out and do their thing.

~Lannie


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## simplepeace (Oct 29, 2005)

Fowler said:


> I love it!!...Great suggestion!!!.....because the other dog will be like a family member visiting.....just like my grandkids when they come to visit....I thinks it's a brilliant idea.:goodjob:


I agree! I was going to suggest the same thing. If you visist often enough the LGDs should accept the 3rd dog better (hopefully!)
Have you considered an English Shepherd? It souds like it might be just what ytou need at home with the poultry, and with kids too.


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## Goatress (Feb 4, 2011)

I'm with Fowler and wolffeathers....fencing is so important..... I dunno about the rest, maybe keep them together, kind of hard to answer for me, but am liking a lot of the replies, lots of good input here...


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## Parttimefarmer (May 5, 2011)

I am going to chat with my mom, see if she wants to invest in fencing and "over" fencing so much space. Her dogs have always been trained to stay close off leash, so I will have to stress the importance fencing even around the house. The LGD across the street isn't fenced, so I want to be sure she knows that is a Great Pyr trait and the other dog is perhaps a fluke.

As far as a house dog, we have a very sweet **** hound who isn't even aggressive towards our bunny :smack She pees and lays on her back the second a strange dog or person comes up the drive. Not effective against even the cats. We do have a neighborhood of barkers. Beagles, yappy dogs that are out all day, a basset that bays. We have good, tolerant, dog friendly neighbors. Good windows and space between houses helps too.

Does anyone think a Kangal would be better(dh seems to think so)? Any other breeds?


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## Oregon Julie (Nov 9, 2006)

Parttimefarmer said:


> I am going to chat with my mom, see if she wants to invest in fencing and "over" fencing so much space. Her dogs have always been trained to stay close off leash, so I will have to stress the importance fencing even around the house. The LGD across the street isn't fenced, so I want to be sure she knows that is a Great Pyr trait and the other dog is perhaps a fluke.
> 
> As far as a house dog, we have a very sweet **** hound who isn't even aggressive towards our bunny :smack She pees and lays on her back the second a strange dog or person comes up the drive. Not effective against even the cats. We do have a neighborhood of barkers. Beagles, yappy dogs that are out all day, a basset that bays. We have good, tolerant, dog friendly neighbors. Good windows and space between houses helps too.
> 
> Does anyone think a Kangal would be better(dh seems to think so)? Any other breeds?


As to barking and having dog tolerant neighbors, great but it may not be that way forever and truly a LGD barking at something that it feels is a threat is a totally different ball game them someone's yappy dog or Beagle howling. Also most, not all, will NEVER get to a point where they think that the neighbors doing normal things in their own yards is an okay thing. Mowing the lawn, gardening, the neighbor kids playing, the garbage pickup, mailman, all are considered as something that should not be happening so near THEIR turf.

Also you have to consider the level of protective behavior you will have with the dog. Some are okay with strangers coming and going, others are not at all okay with it. This means your kids bring friends over to play and those friends are considered unwanted intruders by the dog. Is this something you are prepared for and willing to deal with?

And finally, NO, IMO a Kangal if anything would be worse about this then the average GP.


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## Goatress (Feb 4, 2011)

Based on what you've told us as a Kangal breeder myself I'd say NO...no Kangal...your set up is not Kangal friendly and I honestly think it'd be far too much of an intense dog for your situation. Yes they do bond extremely well yes they do stick close to home and flock, however their level of protectiveness far outpaces most LGD breeds and I think you might have issues with that. And they are not accepting of strangers in fact might consider the other kids threats to their 'own' kids. They can also easily clear a 6' fence if motivated to do so. Yes my Kangal tosses a fit when neighbors walk by with dog on leash, she absolutely comes undone, I know she'd kill it if she could. That is a lot of dog. I think too much for your situation. Get your place fenced tight and sound before you buy a puppy. THAT should be your first priority.


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## Parttimefarmer (May 5, 2011)

simplepeace said:


> I agree! I was going to suggest the same thing. If you visist often enough the LGDs should accept the 3rd dog better (hopefully!)
> Have you considered an English Shepherd? It souds like it might be just what ytou need at home with the poultry, and with kids too.


Interesting! There is an English Shepard breeder in the city next to me I found out today after looking for info on them (thanks for the idea!). They look like Bernese Mountain Dogs.


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## mekasmom (Jan 19, 2010)

Parttimefarmer said:


> We found a working pair of parents local with 4 puppies left. Could my parents buy one, we buy one, raise them together over the summer, then bring one "home" for the school year, but take it back next year so it stays with us full time? Could they share space if from the same litter and raised/socialized together? Also, my parents have a lab, we have a hound, both very social and good with other dogs.



I have raised 3 pyrs together at once. That's not a problem. If you are taking the dog back and forth though, I would make sure they are opposite genders, and that they see each other and know each other well. I would even let them visit during the school year often. You don't want your Mom and Dad's dog to feel that your dog is an intruder. That would lead to fighting. You need them to see each other as friends.
If your parents have a lot of intruders, then they should have a pair of the dogs. If that is the case, I would leave them with 2females and let your male come and visit them. It just works to keep fighting down to a minimum to have only one male and to have the dogs be opposite genders that come and go.

I do think it would work though, because my kids have dogs. My pyr male welcomes the females easily. Once in a while a female here will get bossy, but since they know each other and visit often it's not too bad. I do think that having an outsider male come to visit a male pyr's property could be a big issue.


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