# I need a strong message... please help



## texastami (Sep 13, 2002)

Hi guys! I've been homeschooling for 6 years... and have a disabled 20 yr son, a 13 yr old DD and a 7 yr old DD....

I have run into the "SOCIALIZATION monster" yet again.... 

Here is the case.... 

disabled son has 7 yr old mental capacity... we have discovered its difficult for him to "hang out" with other kids as he wants to play with the youngers and since he has younger sisters, he naturally likes to push them on the swings... etc.... Well... PARENTS FIND THIS CREEPY..... and no matter how many times I try to explain it, since he LOOKS normal, they think he's creepy.... He has a few guy friends he can throw the football around with when we are over... his brother is another one of his "friends"... Dad is a huge influence for him.... but he lacks the understanding and connection of "best friends" that aren't related to him.... so I don't push it.....

DD7 has had vision issues most of her life... balance and coordination issues as well... she HATES HATES HATES running, jumping, bike riding... etc due to her fears... we have mastered the playground, the swings and etc ...BUT
She would much rather sit and read books, do puzzles and color than do those other things...She is very emotional... shows great empathy and sorrow... but also LOVES just as strongly.... She is very polite, very well mannered.. (if fact, she was so well mannered at 4 yrs old, it was SHOCKING... she just IS that way.. I didn't drill it in her or anything.. just VERY WELL MANNERED! She is polite, uses words like Stupendous, exceptional, and apprehensive in regular conversations... she hates kids screaming, yelling and babies crying... prefers quieter settings to play... can play with anyone (old or young) but prefers older children due to her siblings.... can be a bit OCD about things but she just likes things a certain way... she has NEVER thrown a tantrum in her life, never screams or cries for anything out of ANGER or WANT... and has an imagination the size of the universe!! She can take one simple household item and turn it into an adventure that will last 3 hours.... she loves fantasy play! And I encourage her to be IMAGINATIVE and ADVENTUROUS!! 

DD13 is a bookworm.... has been since she learned to read... she hates sports.. is an AWESOME TEAM player (as demonstrated for OUR team...) loves her siblings... enjoys spending time with our family.... is a real pleasure to be around... is very responsible, hard working... gets good grades... 

I have a REAL problem, right?? LOL....

Here is the problem...


WE HOMESCHOOL....and we choose not to do much "outside the family" socialization" . there are homeschooling groups around here, we have found most of them to be filled with people we would not personally socialize with We also don't do CHURCH in a building each week... we do HOME CHURCH... EVERYDAY.... in bible worship, discussion, singing, etc.... 

Now, what we DO is we go on regular library trips, shopping trips... we visit grandparents.... a couple of families of friends (kids aren't "BEST" friends, but they like to see each other).... my DD13 has sleep overs with her BEST friend... and vise versa... we try to go to the library when play group is there so dd7 can interact... we work as a family on projects, canning, prepping, etc... we play games, crafts, etc.... I would rather spend time with my kids than 90% of our city's population!! I love their senses of humor and I think they are quite well rounded kids... granted, they probably can't tell you whose the next star on American Idol, but my DD13 can tell you how to can applesauce, tomatoes or salsa in a hearbeat!! 

So the dreaded, "I am concerned about your children.. they aren't very SOCIALIZED.. They need more activities... they need more friends... they need more exposure to the real world...." Your dd7 needs to live in the REAL WORLD... not so much imaginary play, more real life stuff.. good and bad..."

WHY? why do I need to subject her to that yet? They are only children ONCE... and my other dd finds it laughable that this has raised its ugly head again....

SO what I want is some very unique socialization come backs from you all that will stop the negative comments (remember that 90% of my problems are with FAMILY MEMBERS).... 

Hit me with your best shot... and if you are still reading... thanks for listening!!


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## texastami (Sep 13, 2002)

After reading and re reading this post... I realize that the problem isn't MINE... I have GREAT kids... too bad they have to find something negative in it...

Its the other persons problem... the doubts they have about my children are THEIRS... not mine... and I don't have to justify anything to them... even if they are the grandparent....

I am interested in your responses about the socialization comebacks tho!Please give me your best!


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## ovsfarm (Jan 14, 2003)

My pat response is:
Yes, socialization can be a problem. It was for me until I learned to say No. There are so many incredible opportunties for homeschoolers that we could literally run morning, noon, and night every day of the week. I had to learn how to say No to many good things in order to make room for only the very best social opportunities.

Another possibility is:
We limit ourselves to only high quality social opportunities. Why waste time allowing peers with much worse socialization issues to influence my kids who are so socially advanced?

But probably the most diplomatic response is:
Thanks for your concern. I will take it into consideration.


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## Sonshine (Jul 27, 2007)

How much actual socialization do kids get in public schools? The way I look at it is back about 100 yrs ago, many kids did not go to public schools, but they managed just fine. With me DS age 12, he plays with some of the kids in the neighborhood when they get out of school. We are also active in Church, but most of his friends are neighbors. Since he has some learning disabilities, we have him evaluated on a regular basis, and his developmental specialist has told us that he is a very well balanced child.


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## Whisperwindkat (May 28, 2009)

I usually tell people that I am raising independent thinkers and doers and since the word socialization comes from the word socialism and its concept of living in the collective, then I want nothing to do with their collective. My children are socially adept, but they will never be socialized. Sounds like you have some awesome kids. Blessings, Kat


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## Laura Zone 5 (Jan 13, 2010)

texastami said:


> Hi guys! I've been homeschooling for 6 years... and have a disabled 20 yr son, a 13 yr old DD and a 7 yr old DD....
> 
> I have run into the "SOCIALIZATION monster" yet again....
> 
> ...


I have a 19yo boy, and for whatever reason, little kids and babies are drawn to him. He is gentle, patient, and compassionate. (did I mention he is also a hockey player?) BECAUSE he is home schooled, he has the experience and capacity to relate to humans of ALL ages, not just humans in his peer grouping. I have no experience with any sort of disability....but from a pure 'socialization' stand point, if your boy 'mentally functions as a 7 yo" then why put him in a group he has nothing in common with? Would the "nay sayers" send their 7 yo off to go play football with 20 year olds? Doubt it.



> DD7 has had vision issues most of her life... balance and coordination issues as well... she HATES HATES HATES running, jumping, bike riding... etc due to her fears... we have mastered the playground, the swings and etc ...BUT
> She would much rather sit and read books, do puzzles and color than do those other things...She is very emotional... shows great empathy and sorrow... but also LOVES just as strongly.... She is very polite, very well mannered.. (if fact, she was so well mannered at 4 yrs old, it was SHOCKING... she just IS that way.. I didn't drill it in her or anything.. just VERY WELL MANNERED! She is polite, uses words like Stupendous, exceptional, and apprehensive in regular conversations... she hates kids screaming, yelling and babies crying... prefers quieter settings to play... can play with anyone (old or young) but prefers older children due to her siblings.... can be a bit OCD about things but she just likes things a certain way... she has NEVER thrown a tantrum in her life, never screams or cries for anything out of ANGER or WANT... and has an imagination the size of the universe!! She can take one simple household item and turn it into an adventure that will last 3 hours.... she loves fantasy play! And I encourage her to be IMAGINATIVE and ADVENTUROUS!!


Psalm 139.
We are wonderfully and UNIQUELY Created.
Why in the world would someone encourage you to take such a sweet, gentle, innocent child and throw her to the wolves in her "peer group"???
Have you been around a pack of 7 year old girls?
Yeah, no thanks.
That may be "their" normal, but it's not God's Normal.




> DD13 is a bookworm.... has been since she learned to read... she hates sports.. is an AWESOME TEAM player (as demonstrated for OUR team...) loves her siblings... enjoys spending time with our family.... is a real pleasure to be around... is very responsible, hard working... gets good grades...


My oldest was not 'competitive' either. We tried different sports, it was not for her!



> I have a REAL problem, right?? LOL....
> 
> Here is the problem...
> 
> ...


Problem? Nawwwww Darlin' you have all the ANSWERS to the 'problems'!
We do not 'socialize' much either. Don't have much in common.
Don't do 'church'. I don't need a building to speak too, listen too, Worship, or have a relationship with My Jesus.




> Now, what we DO is we go on regular library trips, shopping trips... we visit grandparents.... a couple of families of friends (kids aren't "BEST" friends, but they like to see each other).... my DD13 has sleep overs with her BEST friend... and vise versa... we try to go to the library when play group is there so dd7 can interact... we work as a family on projects, canning, prepping, etc... we play games, crafts, etc.... I would rather spend time with my kids than 90% of our city's population!! I love their senses of humor and I think they are quite well rounded kids... granted, they probably can't tell you whose the next star on American Idol, but my DD13 can tell you how to can applesauce, tomatoes or salsa in a hearbeat!!


That's where I am losing my mind. Mine are growing up.....moving on.....and it's leaving a gaping hole in my heart.......Because I did EVERYTHING with the kids. Our families are so, so alike.  You are doing as the Lord has COMMANDED you.....you are Walking in His Ways......poo poo on the world!



> So the dreaded, "I am concerned about your children.. they aren't very SOCIALIZED.. They need more activities... they need more friends... they need more exposure to the real world...." Your dd7 needs to live in the REAL WORLD... not so much imaginary play, more real life stuff.. good and bad..."


*I am concerned about your children?

Why?

Because they do not use foul language, because they do not talk back, because they are not plugged into an Ipod/Iphone/Ipad/Game station?
Or is it because they are not running the streets, unsupervised with packs of kids their age, drinking, doing drugs or having premarital sex?
OR is it because they are not preoccupied with themselves, their looks, their bodies, and their clothes? That they are going through bf's and gf's at an alarming rate? That they have not been exposed to homosexual advances in the showers at school? 
Or is it that they have not had the opporunity to see a perfect stranger called a "guidence counselor" (oxymoron) to get birth control without my parents knowledge??? Could it be that you are concerned because they are not running with packs of shallow, bullies that exploit and expose other children's weaknesses to the point they commit suicide?
Or is it that you think its good for kids to be exposed to inappropriate touching, verbal abuse, physical abuse? 
Maybe because my kids have not been brainwashed into thinking parents are the enemy, and they should trust a total stranger called teacher, even though they were taught in elementary to TRUST NO STRANGER??? 
OR is it because they think independently, and ask questions, and they don't blindly just believe the teacher because they are told too?
Possibly it's because they Believe in God, and that man is not all mighty?

So tell me, which of these are you afraid my child is missing out on????
* 


> WHY? why do I need to subject her to that yet? They are only children ONCE... and my other dd finds it laughable that this has raised its ugly head again....


Type up your answer to the socializaion question.
Keep 3 copies on you at all times.
When it's brought up, hand them out.
Don't entertain a conversation about it again!
Seriously. Make sure the next time you 'have this conversation' that you are CLEAR IT WILL BE THE LAST TIME you have, this conversation.
IF it is brought up again, pack up, and LEAVE.



> SO what I want is some very unique socialization come backs from you all that will stop the negative comments (remember that 90% of my problems are with FAMILY MEMBERS)....
> 
> Hit me with your best shot... and if you are still reading... thanks for listening!!


(insert bad girl smile)

Ok.
Anyone who knows me, KNOWS me.
I am straight forward, clear cut, no sugar, bring it in shovel loads then if you look confused, wack you with the shovel type.

When I TOLD everyone......hey, this is what we are doing, you are free to disagree, but zip it.
If you open your mouth to MY children, it will be the LAST time you open your mouth, to my children.
When they are older, you may feel free to ask them your self.
UNTIL THEM zip it.
You had your chance to raise your children, and this is mine. If you feel like you need to "mother" you can adopt a child or a puppy.....but hands off mine.
Are we clear?
Yep.

My folks would ask questions, but never try to make me feel bad or manipulate my mind.
His folks, don't care...too preoccupied with themselves.

It's the perfect strangers that would stop me in a grocery store and want to play 20 questions about why they are not in school that always fractured me......
HTH


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## Sonshine (Jul 27, 2007)

Laura, very good reply.


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## Jakk (Aug 14, 2008)

Does anyone mind me copying some of these responses?? LOL.. I love it! I am going to do exactly that, and keep copies in my purse.


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## shanzone2001 (Dec 3, 2009)

How about simply reminding people that they are YOUR children and you are mindful of what they do and don't need.
Other than that, it is their problem, not yours. Keep up the good work raising your children. They are loved, fed, and educated. You provide them with a safe environment! That is HUGE!!!


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## Ohio dreamer (Apr 6, 2006)

Just tell them you have a child led socialization curriculum. This year they are all getting A's. Last year (child or your choice) was only getting a B+, but we knew he/she could do better so we challenged them to do so and it's is working out well.


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## ErinP (Aug 23, 2007)

> How much actual socialization do kids get in public schools? )


A lot!! 
They're in a class of their peers, working on projects, playing in the band, eating their lunch, playing kickball at recess, etc, etc. 
Don't dismiss it. It's valuable, too.
In fact we decided to go BACK to school because my kids were so lonely. (We're considerably more isolated than most people, though, even homeschoolers).

However, I'm currently reading Bringing Up Geeks (anyone read this one, yet?) And basically the premise of it is to DE-socialize kids who are in public schools. How to get them OUT of tune with their peers and be happier for it. 



> since the word socialization comes from the word socialism and its concept of living in the collective, then I want nothing to do with their collective


:huh:
No it doesn't... 
The word "socialization" comes from the Latin _socialis_ (just like social, society, socialism, sociable, etc). And essentially means, "Us."



> Because they do not use foul language, because they do not talk back, because they are not plugged into an Ipod/Iphone/Ipad/Game station?
> Or is it because they are not running the streets, unsupervised with packs of kids their age, drinking, doing drugs or having premarital sex?
> OR is it because they are not preoccupied with themselves, their looks, their bodies, and their clothes? That they are going through bf's and gf's at an alarming rate? That they have not been exposed to homosexual advances in the showers at school?
> Or is it that they have not had the opporunity to see a perfect stranger called a "guidence counselor" (oxymoron) to get birth control without my parents knowledge??? Could it be that you are concerned because they are not running with packs of shallow, bullies that exploit and expose other children's weaknesses to the point they commit suicide?
> Or is it that you think its good for kids to be exposed to inappropriate touching, verbal abuse, physical abuse?


And I'm absolutely incredulous that you would suggest the only two options are THIS or homeschooling! :shocked:


So far as the original question, why does it have to be a "comeback?"
Personally, I usually said something to the effect of, "We WANT them to be sheltered. Shelter is a _good_ thing, afterall."  (Especially at _7_! Who needs to be "in the real world" at 7??)


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## Tracy Rimmer (May 9, 2002)

Seriously, the only way I've found to effectively deal with this one is HEAD ON. When someone tells you your children need more socialization, ask them what about your children's social skills is lacking.

When they say, "They don't act like other kids" (and they will), ask again, "What do they do or not do, specifically, that has you concerned?"

Address the concerns, not the knee-jerk "your kids don't act like my kids so it must be that they're not getting enough socialization because you home school" garbage. If they can't give you specifics, then perhaps the best thing to say is, "until someone can give me specifics on what my children are doing wrong, I think I'll just keep doing what I'm doing. We like them."

Or, you could trot out the old speech about the difference between social skills and socialization, but that tends to fly right over most people's heads.


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## Laura Zone 5 (Jan 13, 2010)

shanzone2001 said:


> How about simply reminding people that they are YOUR children and you are mindful of what they do and don't need.
> Other than that, it is their problem, not yours. Keep up the good work raising your children. They are loved, fed, and educated. You provide them with a safe environment! That is HUGE!!!


Great answer.

I always find it flabbergasting that perfect strangers ask the most personal questions when they see your kids with you during "school hours". 
I would never walk up to a couple and ask them about their bedroom life.
I would never walk up to someone disabled and ask them personal questions about their particular disability. OR ask the parents of a disabled child, personal questions.

But it is shocking how many people just ask the most personal questions, of perfect strangers. I am so glad my youngest looks like she is 18, so I don't have to stop, bite my tongue, and tell another PERFECT stranger, that home education is legal, and thank you for your socialization suggestions.

Erin P I am so glad that your kids are having a great public school experience, and that they are not exposed to the things I mentioned.
Each of those instances were from personal experience, which is why I typed them. You are very blessed to be in a pubic school situation that doesn't have these issues!!


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## Laura Zone 5 (Jan 13, 2010)

Jakk said:


> Does anyone mind me copying some of these responses?? LOL.. I love it! I am going to do exactly that, and keep copies in my purse.


You are more than welcome to cut an paste everything I said.
These were my personal experiences.
You can do a search on line for the latest "issues" that schools in your district are having (if it's bullying / drugs / gangs / hazing.....whatever) that way it is more "personal" to your situation!


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## horsepoor21 (Mar 14, 2007)

I just wanted to say that your children sound *awesome* !!!! And you sound like one caring mama !


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## mekasmom (Jan 19, 2010)

Why do you allow those comments to hurt you? And who makes them? Honestly, back in our younger days when the kids were smaller and homeschooling, if someone made nasty comments, we just stayed away from them. If they speak curses into your lives or against your children, you shouldn't allow them to be in your lives anyway. You don't have to explain or convince. You just stay away from them.


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## Our Little Farm (Apr 26, 2010)

If one of my friends or family said such a thing. I would walk away. Seriously they are not worth the reply. 
If you really want to reply, ask them what school has to offer in the way of socialization and then answer each point as you feel fit. I doubt you could change their minds any more than they could change yours.




You sound like you are doing a great job, don't allow others to hurt you.


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## ErinP (Aug 23, 2007)

Laura Zone 5 said:


> Erin P I am so glad that your kids are having a great public school experience, and that they are not exposed to the things I mentioned.
> Each of those instances were from personal experience, which is why I typed them. You are very blessed to be in a pubic school situation that doesn't have these issues!!


Laura, kids are exposed to these things no matter how they school. 
Yes, it's easier for parents to mitigate the effects when they homeschool, but even in our rural HSing group, we had one family who was absolutely _fixated_ on looks/clothes/bodies. 
I know another family who's oldest is now 16 and is drinking on a regular basis and the biggest, nastiest bully my son ever encountered was in his HS group! (I was utterly disappointed by that one. He was so polite when adults were around.  )

However, speaking as a sub who works in several area school districts, the _majority_ of kids in public school are still honest, open kids.
To be sure, it's easy to focus on all of the things that are going wrong, but that's _completely_ unfair to all the good kids out there (and their parents who are working to make them that way). :shrug:


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## Our Little Farm (Apr 26, 2010)

The trouble is that those that don't homeschool often focus on what they see as the negative points, never thinking about the positive points. Often being completely unfair to all the well rounded homeschoolers out there, and most do not want to listen when why we might disagree with their opinions.


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## Laura Zone 5 (Jan 13, 2010)

ErinP said:


> Laura, kids are exposed to these things no matter how they school.
> Yes, it's easier for parents to mitigate the effects when they homeschool, but even in our rural HSing group, we had one family who was absolutely _fixated_ on looks/clothes/bodies.
> I know another family who's oldest is now 16 and is drinking on a regular basis and the biggest, nastiest bully my son ever encountered was in his HS group! (I was utterly disappointed by that one. He was so polite when adults were around.  )
> 
> ...


What I see as "completely unfair" are the _personal experiences _I posted above that happens to a vast majority of children in public and private schools......

It's just a difference of experiences. Mine are not 'gospel'....just my experiences.

And as far as the word unfair?
My children were not allowed to say "that's not fair".
Cancer, is not fair.
Drunk drivers that kill, are not fair.
Things of this nature, to us, are not 'fair'. 
Kids who get a cookie in a carefully, lovingly packed lunch box, are not being "unfair" to those around them. They are Recipients of their mothers loving care. Not monsters who are filled with greed and don't want to share. Yet at our school, treats such as this were banned, because it was not "fair" to the kids who HAD to eat school lunch.......

We didn't call it "unfair" we called it what it was:
Training the mind to accept socialism.

So we made a choice!
Instead of whining and moaning and "demanding our rights" we chose to home educate.
The OP was a question


> SO what I want is some very unique socialization come backs from you all that will stop the negative comments


And I believe that my entry was just that.....based upon *my* personal experiences.....

Why be so quick to get offended?
I KNOW there are great kids in PS / PS. I KNOW there are great teachers in PS / PS.
Just like I KNOW there are good politicians....
No where in my post did it say "all / every / absolutely".
Just.....my experiences!


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## ErinP (Aug 23, 2007)

> The trouble is that those that don't homeschool often focus on what they see as the negative points, never thinking about the positive points. Often being completely unfair to all the well rounded homeschoolers out there, and most do not want to listen when why we might disagree with their opinions.


*chuckle*
Hmmm.... this is an interesting post to precede the one above. 

PS: Laura, I'm not seeing where the unfairness of the _sweeping_ generalizations you posted (something _you're_ in complete control of) even begins to compare to the unfairness of cancer or drunk drivers. 
What a strange connection...


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## Laura Zone 5 (Jan 13, 2010)

ErinP said:


> *chuckle*
> Hmmm.... this is an interesting post to precede the one above.
> 
> PS: Laura, I'm not seeing where the unfairness of the _sweeping_ generalizations you posted (something _you're_ in complete control of) even begins to compare to the unfairness of cancer or drunk drivers.
> What a strange connection...


Huh?
:hrm:


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## Our Little Farm (Apr 26, 2010)

Actually Erin, in Laura's defense she was just giving some suggestions to what COULD be said. I don't see where she says that all PS kids are like that at all. 
Whereas some PS parents are completely rude and ignorant when it comes to homeschooling and think it is their way or abuse, as the OP explained.

I used your words 'completely unfair' to show that generalization on either side is wrong. There are good kids in ps and good kids that are hs. This thread was NOT an argument about that at all  but was asking for help on what to say when being BULLIED about homeschooling.

The OP sounds like she is doing a great job, and needs to be able to have some fight in her words to stand up to these bullies.

Some of the worst folk I have met are those that struggled with hs and sent their kids back to school. They were horrible to me. Because it did not work for them and their kids were unruly brats, they told me mine were going to be ignorant and end up in jail!  Our methods of homeschooling were completely different. Mine have never been bored, or out of control.

Having the answers ready for such assaults on what I believe is a very important subject is a must.


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## ErinP (Aug 23, 2007)

Our Little Farm said:


> Actually Erin, in Laura's defense she was just giving some suggestions to what COULD be said. I don't see where she says that all PS kids are like that at all.


No, I think you misread the post I responded to. She even clarified for me: I posted above that happens to a vast majority of children in public and private schools......

That's the opinion I took offense to. 
I simply do not understand why people need to validate their choices by completely _bashing_ the choices of others. 



> Whereas some PS parents are completely rude and ignorant when it comes to homeschooling and think it is their way or abuse, as the OP explained.


True indeed. 
However, I'm not much of a believer in battling rudeness and offensive generalizations with still MORE rudeness and offensive generalizations. 
I just don't see where it serves a purpose. 



> Because it did not work for them and their kids were unruly brats, they told me mine were going to be ignorant and end up in jail!  Our methods of homeschooling were completely different. Mine have never been bored, or out of control.
> 
> Having the answers ready for such assaults on what I believe is a very important subject is a must.


I don't really think I'm any more confident than anyone else, but I guess I simply don't understand why people get so upset when others question their parenting methods. Homeschooling, included. 

We definitely got negative comments about homeschooling, especially in light of the fact that given my own profession, a lot of our friends are closely tied to the schools. 

Annoying? Absolutely! And in the case of family members, _particularly_ so. 
However, as tami pointed out in her own response to herself, the issue is theirs, not ours. 

Our response was basically, "Yeah, DH and I talk about this a lot, but their success tells us all we need to know. This is the best thing for our kids." 
Further arguments got the same response.


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## Our Little Farm (Apr 26, 2010)

> However, as tami pointed out in her own response to herself, the issue is theirs, not ours.


Totally agree..

Sometimes I guess instead of fighting back with words, it it better to let them live in their own ignorance because they are never going to change that opinion.


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## bourbonred (Feb 27, 2008)

My homeschoolers at 11 & 13 coined the phrase "that's so P.S." talking about how the other kids from the church behaved and treated each other. Only one other family in our large church is homeschooled, and generally, you can tell the difference, ErinP. 
As far as the socialization question, for us, those asking were the same people who bemoaned that my children would not have a prom, or drama, or marching band opportunities. Priorities! My sister's dd, an honor roll student, could only pull an 18 on her ACT before going to college on probation. Honor Roll!! Our public school priorities are just screwed up, and many people don't like home schoolers because we make them look bad or feel like bad parents for not doing it themselves. (rant completed)


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## Bret (Oct 3, 2003)

This is the strongest message I can think of.

"Keep Up The Good Work"


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## ErinP (Aug 23, 2007)

bourbonred said:


> My homeschoolers at 11 & 13 coined the phrase "that's so P.S." talking about how the other kids from the church behaved and treated each other. Only one other family in our large church is homeschooled, and generally, you can tell the difference, ErinP.
> As far as the socialization question, for us, those asking were the same people who bemoaned that my children would not have a prom, or drama, or marching band opportunities. Priorities! My sister's dd, an honor roll student, could only pull an 18 on her ACT before going to college on probation. Honor Roll!! Our public school priorities are just screwed up, and many people don't like home schoolers because we make them look bad or feel like bad parents for not doing it themselves. (rant completed)


Well since you addressed me specifically (despite the fact that this thread is nearly two months old):

Honor roll has nothing whatsoever to do with intelligence. It has to do with _grades_. And my observation over the years is that most straight A students are of average intelligence. Kids get good grades because of hard work, not intelligence. 
The ACT, on the other hand, measures intelligence and school curriculum, not grades. 

So far as "that's so P.S.", I can't _believe_ you'd allow your kids to deride other children this way... 
That's just _mean_. 

A good defense is a cruel offense??


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## mekasmom (Jan 19, 2010)

The easiest thing to do is ignore them or politely rebuff them. I know some people find it hard to do that with family, but it wasn't hard for me to do it. I would just say, "Thank you for sharing your thoughts." Then change the subject. If MIL, Sister, etc got nasty and wouldn't stop complaining, then I would simply tell her that it wasn't her place to raise our children. God gave these children to us to raise, and if they didn't like it then their problem was with God not me. Then change the subject. And if that hadn't worked then I would have cut off the relationship and told them why. It was not their place to raise our children. It never came that far for our family, but we did strictly limit the amount of time the kids spent alone with my MIL. She was just a nasty person overall.
One rule I did have was that if anyone upset the kids, whined to the kids about what they were "missing" out on, then they didn't spend time with them again until they learned to be polite. We didn't need anyone upsetting our children be it a grandparent, aunt, cousin, church member, etc.


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## HOTW (Jul 3, 2007)

I don't pay people like that any attention it has been thrown in my face since I started homeschooling my kids due to the escalating violence agaisnt my son that the school was not taking care of and the fact that they wanted my DD to take vaccination I knew would make her ill. At 16 my son has built his own computer, is an admin on a computer game sight, gives advice online to people that are having issues with their computers, and can chat up anyone he decides to chat with. We consider him an "undiagnosed" Asperger's and it is staying that way. He has come a long way since HSing began and I doubt he would have done so well in the environment that was crushing him. MY DD is youngish fpr her age, has a heart of gold, reads on a college level(has since grade 5) and is much happier being able to read as she wishes and nopt be fiorced to read books she read years ago.

If people push th eissue I tell them my kids do have friend they do have activities and they do socialize with all ages and if they dont liek it too bad.


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## tinknal (May 21, 2004)

There are 3 distinct sections here.
1. Your kids; they seem to be doing well
2. Your kin and acquaintances. They are busybodies, and they will have their opinions no matter what.
3. You. You cannot control the opinion of others. You can present your position, but beyond this you can not change others. What you can do is continue to do as you have and stand strong. Unless you are a complete Pollyanna you knew that you were going against popular convention when you set out on this course. You can chose to let the opinion of others to affect you or not. You can also choose to defend your position in a way that makes everyone aware that the subject is not open for debate. Sometimes a little wild eyed hostility can work wonders......


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## bourbonred (Feb 27, 2008)

It's not derision nor is it mean to discuss other children's behavior--or lack there of-- on the way home after church. It's debriefing after socialization so that they learn more from it than just the bad behaviors. After 15 years doing this, my experience is that public schoolers generally don't behave as well as kids who spend more time with their parents at home. The obvious conclusion is that they have been so socialized: pack behaviors, attacking the weak, fear of standing up to their peers. fear of exclusion. And yet homeschoolers have continually had to defend our "lack of socialization". I personally see this as one more way our culture is upside-down.


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## Jeni (Mar 24, 2010)

You got some great advice. Socilization is a catch phrase spoken by the uneducated. You kids sound just fine. 

The one and only thing that jumped out at me was about your eldest son. My step brother had a similar problem, he naturally gravitated towards younger kids due to what we think now was severe autism or something along those lines. I can tell you first hand, by creepy, they mean dangerous. You may think your 20 year old son is a big fluffy bunny of a boy, I would see him trying to push my seven year old dd on the swing and warning bells would start ringing. You as his mom can rationalize the behavior and you see no harm, you see a 7 year old boy. Other parents, that's not the case, they see a 20 year old man. It's a strange adult male coming up to their small children wanting to "play", it's the stuff of our nightmares. Does that sound dramatic? Sure, but it's true. I would never, ever let a strange man near my children no matter how wonderful he ended up being and I assume most other parents feel the same way. It's "creepy" because it's not traditional and experience tells us that adults men interested in little kids are not interested for innocent reasons. It's easy to cast blame. But I would try to be more understanding of others responses, especially those you just don't know very well, they don't see your son the same way you do.


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## ErinP (Aug 23, 2007)

bourbonred said:


> It's not derision nor is it mean to discuss other children's behavior--or lack there of-- on the way home after church. It's debriefing after socialization so that they learn more from it than just the bad behaviors. After 15 years doing this, my experience is that public schoolers generally don't behave as well as kids who spend more time with their parents at home. The obvious conclusion is that they have been so socialized: pack behaviors, attacking the weak, fear of standing up to their peers. fear of exclusion. And yet homeschoolers have continually had to defend our "lack of socialization". I personally see this as one more way our culture is upside-down.


It is certainly not OK that homeschoolers always have to feel defensive (though I have discovered, they're often defensive out of _habit_, rather than actual need. Ie, perceiving an attack that's not there.)

But my point was that it's NOT OK to draw sweeping generalizations, especially where they are intended to hurt others. And allowing your children to say this: _"that's so P.S." talking about how the other kids from the church behaved and treated each other._
Is indeed intentionally hurtful. 
While that might indeed be true of how all of the public-schooled kids behave in your church, you do not know every public schooled child in the country. Nor do your children. 
(Every child in your church??? I have a hard time believing this, btw, for the same reason I don't believe the "all homeschooled kids are social klutzes" baloney) 

I think it's shameful, actually, that you would _encourage_ this, or find humor in it. 
Even here at HT, the vast majority of kids are PUBLIC SCHOOLED. 

Do you honestly believe they are so far beneath your own children???

I understand the frustration of being told that what you're doing is somehow detrimental to your child, that your child is lacking, that your child is somehow abnormal. I've been there.

But the solution to that isn't to turn around and DO THE EXACT SAME THING!


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## bourbonred (Feb 27, 2008)

ErinP, we will have to agree to disagree. I don't think we'll see eye to eye on this issue. I don't want to hijack the thread further. 
Tinknal, I like the idea of "wide-eyed hostility" but am often caught off guard and can't pull it off well...usually I just ignore it...probably why I tend to rant here!


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## ErinP (Aug 23, 2007)

> we will have to agree to disagree


I guess you're right. I'm completely flabbergasted that meanness can be rationalized, I guess. 
Though undoubtedly I have a double standard about some things, too, that _I_ refuse to see.


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## pheasantplucker (Feb 20, 2007)

So when someone expresses their concerns to you about what your kids need...ask them how they will help you with that. Ask them what is THEIR plan for YOUR kids? If they don't have any tangible, real, practical suggestions, say "Thanks for your concern, but I'm doing the best I can. I don't think you understand or appreciate all I am currently doing, how overwhelming it is, or how difficult it is to do much beyond what I am currently accomplishing."


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## Shrarvrs88 (May 8, 2010)

My gramma tells me homescooling is social abuse, my brother says the same thing. I told them I dont think so, and told them how my kids WILL be around other kids. Then i dropped it, and no one has questioned it further.


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## georger (Sep 15, 2003)

Socialization is highly over-rated and IMHO is nothing but crap. Go with your strengths and let no one manipulate or brainwash you. You know what's right and good for your loved ones. To hell with what others want you to believe.


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