# Hunger in the USA.???



## TripleD (Feb 12, 2011)

Can someone please enlighten me on this??? I know I'm simple minded...


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## Terri (May 10, 2002)

There has always been hunger in the USA, and there have always been people who try to help

My neighbor lady had her husband leave her and the kids, and he used his paycheck to get himself into an apartment. And, she was waiting on the paycheck to buy food as things were tight. She was too proud to let people know that they were in trouble. So after thinking things over and giving most of the food to the kids she went to the food pantry, and the pantry fed them all until she got a job

My sister had a husband who could not hold a job (or would not, more likely) and she was too proud to let people know that they were hungry. So she eventually asked for and got food stamps. After a bit (and having more trouble) she divorced him. My folks gave her and her baby-to-be (yes she was pregnant) a place to stay until she got on her feet again

Some people find that minimum wage does not cover the bills. Others get sick and lose everything.

Life happens. And that is why I donate extra garden vegetables to the food pantry


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## Forcast (Apr 15, 2014)

The food pantry is going to fade away. Ours depends on canned and dry good donations from people in the area. Not government
People do not have the stuff they use to. Most was things they stocked up on during covid an didnt like it.


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## Max Overhead (Feb 22, 2021)

It's good for the economy and the government for hungry people to exist. It's a powerful incentive. I've thrown away dumpsters full of good and expensive food over the course of a decade at a caterer. I took what I could. I have heard that the military is much more profligate. Also the large universities. It's the same reason wars exist - in order to intentionally destroy resources, both human and material. The horn of plenty is not a good ad for climate doom and overpopulation propaganda. The dirty secret is that this planet is superabundant with resources, and we're not even using it in near the most efficient way. Destruction must occur so fear and dependence can march on.


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## Evons hubby (Oct 3, 2005)

No reason for anyone in the USA to be hungry. Zimbabwe is another story.


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## Forcast (Apr 15, 2014)

Forcast said:


> The food pantry is going to fade away. Ours depends on canned and dry good donations from people in the area. Not government
> People do not have the stuff they use to. Most was things they stocked up on during covid an didnt like it.


During covid they used school buses to deliver lunch every week day. Parents posted what was in the bag. Every day one week a can of sardines, chips or cookies, cup of applesauce. How many kids eat sardines?


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## doc- (Jun 26, 2015)

Evons hubby said:


> No reason for anyone in the USA to be hungry. Zimbabwe is another story.


Exactly...We have the lowest food prces in the world and govt assistance is easily obtained (SNAP). Those "food stamps" provide more than $5/d/peron-- more than enough (at least true before ths new inflation thing) to get good nutrition and all the HoHos & DingDongs you want.

I'm stuck in the Madison WI TV area...Half of the dialy news broadcast is filled with pieces begging for various food, clothes, diaper,, baby food, etc etc charity causes...You'd think the whole @#$% county is one big homeless camp.


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## Evons hubby (Oct 3, 2005)

Forcast said:


> How many kids eat sardines?


hungry kids love them!


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## GREENCOUNTYPETE (Jul 25, 2006)

Part of the issue is food education.
I bet if you asked 25 people on a street corned how to clean a carrot maybe 5 would give you an answer 

I volunteered at the food pantry for a while , if it didn't have a box and instructions 97% of people didn't want it.

if it was big like a ham that didn't sell and was frozen and donated , they would sit 

so at a time when you could have a 10 pound ham and all the bags of pinto beans you wanted people would turn down weeks worth of food that was above what the box provided because they were excess parishable donations and staple beans in Mylar bags.

not uncommon for the poor in the US to be very over weight , they taking in nearly everything as carbs and that means they are drowning in sugar and starving for nutrition,


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## Danaus29 (Sep 12, 2005)

GREENCOUNTYPETE said:


> they taking in nearly everything as carbs and that means they are drowning in sugar and starving for nutrition,


Maybe that is the reason the US population is getting dumber, less sympathetic and more violent. People aren't getting enough of the correct nutrients to make their brains function properly.


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## GTX63 (Dec 13, 2016)

There is hunger and then there is prolonged hunger and then there is starvation.
If you were left on your own in the wilderness and with little food, you would forage.
If you are on your own or down and out in a populated area, foraging is still the best tool, using food banks, churches, charities, government assistance and family as part of that process. Foraging requires action on your part.
Other than the elderly, disabled and abused, there is very little prolonged hunger and almost no starvation in the US.


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## GTX63 (Dec 13, 2016)

GREENCOUNTYPETE said:


> Part of the issue is food education.
> I bet if you asked 25 people on a street corned how to clean a carrot maybe 5 would give you an answer
> 
> I volunteered at the food pantry for a while , if it didn't have a box and instructions 97% of people didn't want it.
> ...


Our local food pantry is on Tuesday mornings. We were recently informed that soap, detergent and milk and some meats would not be delivered as the costs have become prohibitive. Our last two trucks contained energy drinks, potato chips and pastries.
"No more of that stuff, please" we said.
"You get what we get" was their reply.

Local farmers and nurseries dropped off garden starts, ie tomatoes, pepper plants, etc. They sat mostly untouched.
People with multiple refrigerators and freezers stocked with food, that if lost to power interruption, would have less to sustain themselves than a pantry with little more than rice, beans and a garden in the yard.

The first preventative to hunger is education; about food, corporations, marketing, health and how to grow your own.
Just for a little perspective, the amount of uneated/unsold food thrown out by fast foot restaurants could likely feed a similar sized town in a third world country.


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## GREENCOUNTYPETE (Jul 25, 2006)

Danaus29 said:


> Maybe that is the reason the US population is getting dumber, less sympathetic and more violent. People aren't getting enough of the correct nutrients to make their brains function properly.


I think it has a lot more to do with education that they are not getting or that they are getting.

if you think about the 1930s some greens and beans with dinner and a lard sandwich for lunch and you could survive.
theoretically the vitamin an nutrient content should be higher in an enriched cereal product.

I think it has more to do with the education and care given.


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## GREENCOUNTYPETE (Jul 25, 2006)

GTX63 said:


> Our local food pantry is on Tuesday mornings. We were recently informed that soap, detergent and milk and some meats would not be delivered as the costs have become prohibitive. Our last two trucks contained energy drinks, potato chips and pastries.
> "No more of that stuff, please" we said.
> "You get what we get" was their reply.
> 
> ...


I agree about the education , the issue is marketing is all about "here , now , tastes good , hot and ready to eat , simple , fast , easy"

a person could be well nourished on very little but it takes effort and effort is what they are out off in many cases.

think about the things that grow on their own , like lambs quarter nearly all your vegetable needs can be met with a side of lambs quarter (wild spinach) steamed , it takes longer to pick and wash than it does to cook , but it is probably over looked and not very available in dense urban locations. a soup of greens and cheap meat like a 1.99 a pound pork but could feed 4 people for supper all week if it was served over rice and new greens were added each day.

my old neighbor who has passed now , had a good for nothing husband who left her with 5 kids , her dad helped them out and she talked about eating a lot of muskrat , she was proud to show me her wood cutting tools and she was in her 80s she would be in her 90s now if still alive they heated that house with wood , her dad would buck it up and she split it , a small woman 5 foot at the tallest she had a maul and several wedges and a cant hook.

a co-worker of mine now retired in her 70s grew up about 25 miles east of where I live they were a few blocks off the river in a city , her grandpa also helped them out a lot when her dad took off, she to this day hates fish and venison because they ate it near every day.

we waste so much of the animal in western cooking or modern western cooking 

when you start cutting up a cow you realize how many soup bones there are , the crazy part is how expensive soup bones are at the store. we should be eating soup every week basically especially during he winter.

how many people even know what to do with a soup bone let alone if they were just offered a downer cow.


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## newfieannie (Dec 24, 2006)

i saw a small soup bone on monday 9 dollars.they're making enough on the meat they could give us the bones! use to be able to get them for a dollar or so. i left it there. makes soup taste so much better though when you have a soup bone boiled for an hour or so first. i had some fat back already so i fried a bit of that for flavor.


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## GunMonkeyIntl (May 13, 2013)

GREENCOUNTYPETE said:


> when you start cutting up a cow you realize how many soup bones there are , the crazy part is how expensive soup bones are at the store. we should be eating soup every week basically especially during he winter.
> 
> how many people even know what to do with a soup bone let alone if they were just offered a downer cow.





newfieannie said:


> i saw a small soup bone on monday 9 dollars.they're making enough on the meat they could give us the bones! use to be able to get them for a dollar or so. i left it there. makes soup taste so much better though when you have a soup bone boiled for an hour or so first. i had some fat back already so i fried a bit of that for flavor.


I suspect that soup bones have gone up in price because they’re used on an industrial scale, now, for all the same purposes individuals used to use them. They get used to put flavor into processed food, turned into pet food, and ground up for fertilizer.


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## Adirondackian (Sep 26, 2021)

There are people that go hungry but at the same time if you stand outside Walmart you'll see them throw out tractor trailer loads of perfectly good food...canned goods, etc. Should be a crime.


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## GTX63 (Dec 13, 2016)

Adirondackian said:


> Should be a crime.


We can thank the FDA for that.


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## Fishindude (May 19, 2015)

We have a food pantry in our little town that dispenses food a couple days each week. 
There will be a line of cars a block or two long lined up to get theirs. Sad part is most are all later model expensive vehicles, sitting in line burning $5 / gal gas.
I'm sure some are truly needy, but it appears the majority are just taking advantage of something free.


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## frogmammy (Dec 8, 2004)

Used to be, when my daughter was small, that soup bones were free, you just had to ask...

Mon


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## Forcast (Apr 15, 2014)

Adirondackian said:


> There are people that go hungry but at the same time if you stand outside Walmart you'll see them throw out tractor trailer loads of perfectly good food...canned goods, etc. Should be a crime.


I agree all food not sold and put in dumpster get big fine each day. Hire homeless to monitor the stuff and issue tickets no less the $3000


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## Paumon (Jul 12, 2007)

Forcast said:


> During covid they used school buses to deliver lunch every week day. Parents posted what was in the bag. Every day one week a* can of sardines*, chips or cookies, cup of applesauce. *How many kids eat sardines*?


Careful there kiddo. Everybody should eat sardines and since there's such a high demand and turnover for them in grocery stores it's obvious that millions of people do like and appreciate sardines, including kids who will eat them right out of the can. Whoever was sending sardines to the school was using their intelligence and knowledge about nutrition. They knew that sardines are one of the best foods to contribute.

Sardines are known as a superfood. Regardless of whether or not anyone likes the taste of them they are excellent, healthy, inexpensive nutritious food that help to stave off malnutrition. Parents need to teach their children the value of healthy food and to learn to develop a taste and tolerance for nutritious food. 

Parents need to MAKE their kids eat what is healthy for them until it becomes common place for them, and that includes eating sardines. If parents won't teach those nutritional values to their kids and make them follow them then they are not good parents and they and their kids are likely waddling, bloated blobs who are poisoning themselves with garbage.

.


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## newfieannie (Dec 24, 2006)

i've never seen free but i do remember them being 25 or 50 cents. (course i remember bologna being 10 cents for a 1inch slice. we use to buy them at recess in a little corner store close to the school).we have no frills here i'll try there tomorrow. my son gave me a large piece of venison and i think i'll make a big pot of soup and freeze some. ~Georgia


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## newfieannie (Dec 24, 2006)

yes indeed! sardines superfood. i eat one can every day


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## Paumon (Jul 12, 2007)

GunMonkeyIntl said:


> I suspect that soup bones have gone up in price because they’re used on an industrial scale, now, for all the same purposes individuals used to use them. They get used to put flavor into processed food, turned into pet food, and ground up for fertilizer.


You'd be right about that. They've certainly gone up in price here. Soup bones have very, very high nutritional value because of the great quantities of protein and gelatin that can be extracted out of them.

.


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## nodak3 (Feb 5, 2003)

Here is what I don't get: local schools around the country often feed the kids, especially poor kids, a free breakfast and lunch. Those same kids often have parents who are receiving food stamps to feed the kids. And hitting food pantries, and in some places getting commodity foods. Then the schools want donations so they can send a back pack of food home for nights and weekends.

But wait a danged minute: we already did provide, through food stamps, pantries, and school meals. I asked about that once and was told since SNAP went to EBT cards, and since those can convert the card to cash in so many places, the food stamp money does not go for food. It is likely used for other legitimate needs or for alcohol, drugs, or entertainment. I know what happens to the canned commodity food: people like me pick it at garage sales for around 10 cents a can. Food pantry items are often just tossed, or also sold at garage sales. (The sellers are quick to tell you where they got it.)

Some local schools now insist the free summer meals be consumed on site. Reason being if they can be grab and go, they go home and feed adults while the kids get nothing, or are sold on the street.

I do not want any kid going hungry. But we have to be able to do this smarter.


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## homesteadforty (Dec 4, 2007)

nodak3 said:


> I asked about that once and was told since SNAP went to EBT cards, and since those can convert the card to cash in so many places, the food stamp money does not go for food. It is likely used for other legitimate needs or for alcohol, drugs, or entertainment.


EBT cards have two separate functions. SNAP for food and cash for ummm... cash. People can receive one, or the other, or both benefits. SNAP is for food and cannot be converted to cash although the cash benefit can be used for food.

In most, if not all states, SNAP cannot be used to purchase hot foods... even those in a grocery store. Many groceries sell hot cooked chicken (roasted or fried) and such... SNAP benefits cannot be used for that, although if you look, there will usually be fully cooked chicken/s in a nearby fridge... SNAP can be used for those.


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## Terri (May 10, 2002)

Fishindude said:


> We have a food pantry in our little town that dispenses food a couple days each week.
> There will be a line of cars a block or two long lined up to get theirs. Sad part is most are all later model expensive vehicles, sitting in line burning $5 / gal gas.
> I'm sure some are truly needy, but it appears the majority are just taking advantage of something free.


My neighbor lady had a pretty good car. But when her husband left her and her 3 kids there was no money and no food. So, she drove that pretty good car to the food bank so that she and her kids could eat


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## oldasrocks (Oct 27, 2006)

doc- said:


> Exactly...We have the lowest food prces in the world and govt assistance is easily obtained (SNAP). Those "food stamps" provide more than $5/d/peron-- more than enough (at least true before ths new inflation thing) to get good nutrition and all the HoHos & DingDongs you want.
> 
> I'm stuck in the Madison WI TV area...Half of the dialy news broadcast is filled with pieces begging for various food, clothes, diaper,, baby food, etc etc charity causes...You'd think the whole @#$% county is one big homeless camp.


I see people paying with their food stamps card and they eat better than I do. Most look pretty healthy to me.


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## frogmammy (Dec 8, 2004)

newfieannie said:


> yes indeed! sardines superfood. i eat one can every day


My dad and I were the only people we knew who liked Sardines. One year for his birthday I bought him 6-7 assorted cans of Brisling Sardines and a large box of Ritz crackers. He and I sat at the kitchen table and ate all those sardines, while commenting on the flavors and ignoring the plebian barbs from the rest of the family. We had a GREAT time!

Mon


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## homesteadforty (Dec 4, 2007)

Terri said:


> My neighbor lady had a pretty good car. But when her husband left her and her 3 kids there was no money and no food. So, she drove that pretty good car to the food bank so that she and her kids could eat


Come on Terri, don't you know that they're all supposed to drive old junkers that they have to put $500 worth of repairs in each month... if they ain't hitchhiking. How dare they have a reliable vehicle... what do they want next... a full belly and a roof over their heads???


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## nodak3 (Feb 5, 2003)

Define nice vehicle. Now, short term, sure, you can have a $65,000 truck and need some help until you can get your stuff in order. But if you drive a really nice vehicle long term while "needing help" you do not need help. You need to sell it and get reliable cheaper transportation. If you own it outright you get some cash to get yourself in a better situation. If you are making payments on it you just solved some cash flow trouble.

There is a huge difference between the people who have had an adverse situation hit and need limited help for a limited time, and those making a profession of helplessness.


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## Terri (May 10, 2002)

nodak3 said:


> Define nice vehicle. Now, short term, sure, you can have a $65,000 truck and need some help until you can get your stuff in order. But if you drive a really nice vehicle long term while "needing help" you do not need help. You need to sell it and get reliable cheaper transportation. If you own it outright you get some cash to get yourself in a better situation.


And that is the sticky point. You cannot tell who is mooching by just one look at their vehicle. Yes some people mooch. Other people have recently lost their jobs. And both will drive the same type of vehicle


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## harrylee (9 mo ago)

I haven't had sardines in years. Got me hungering for some now.


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## homesteadforty (Dec 4, 2007)

nodak3 said:


> Define nice vehicle. Now, short term, sure, you can have a $65,000 truck...


Not sure I'm qualified to do that. I drive a Korean War era jeep... a 1970 Chevy pickup... a buckboard/a gig/farm wagon/etc. depending on where I'm going. 



> There is a huge difference between the people who have had an adverse situation hit and need limited help for a limited time, and those making a profession of helplessness.


I think you're missing the whole category of working poor... a lot of that around here. We won't mention the elderly and disabled.


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## Forcast (Apr 15, 2014)

Im in wv sardines dont think kid ever ate them might not know the can unless they have grandparents or greatgrands. My adult boys are hear i asked then about kids eating sardines. Oh no.they thought it was cat food uncle was eating


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## wr (Aug 10, 2003)

Terri said:


> And that is the sticky point. You cannot tell who is mooching by just one look at their vehicle. Yes some people mooch. Other people have recently lost their jobs. And both will drive the same type of vehicle


You can’t tell here because we have people picking up hampers for those who have no transportation or are unable to drive.

That brand new SUV could actually belong to someone who volunteers their time and resources to help someone out.


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## frogmammy (Dec 8, 2004)

harrylee said:


> I haven't had sardines in years. Got me hungering for some now.


They no longer have them in slid Sardine oil, they now have them in ALL sorts of stuff trying to make up for no slid oil. I think they found they could sell the slid oil as a health aid and could make more money  Impossible now to find them in slid oil. 

Mon


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## gilberte (Sep 25, 2004)

I can't afford all the sardines I would like to eat. Every year when the mackerel run, my brother-in-law and I catch a couple coolers full and can them. I think they taste just like sardines.


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## mzgarden (Mar 16, 2012)

wr said:


> You can’t tell here because we have people picking up hampers for those who have no transportation or are unable to drive.
> That brand new SUV could actually belong to someone who volunteers their time and resources to help someone out.


My car's not new but that's me sitting in that line to pick up for a family, sometimes two that have no way of getting there. 

On the other hand my friend's adult daughter works at a local food pantry and once or twice a month she gathers up produce that no one wants and drops it off to me (and others) - sometimes several banana boxes full. She says they get a lot of donations and often the fresh lingers so she brings a bunch to me to keep it from being wasted. I redistribute to about 4-5 families I know will eat it. Some I keep and we eat it and I don't feel one bit guilty. Some is too far gone and it goes to the chickens.

Around here, the food pantries are crying for people to take the produce, whether you're at risk or not, they're just happy for someone to take it and use it.


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## GREENCOUNTYPETE (Jul 25, 2006)

GunMonkeyIntl said:


> I suspect that soup bones have gone up in price because they’re used on an industrial scale, now, for all the same purposes individuals used to use them. They get used to put flavor into processed food, turned into pet food, and ground up for fertilizer.


anything that ever was a byproduct has now become it's own commodity.


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## whiterock (Mar 26, 2003)

I can barely remember eating sardines. I like smoked oysters . We had a senior food bank here for a while, It lost its location and closed. May have reopened somewhere, don't know. I would go there and get things every week. Limits to what was available. So many cans of veggies for instance. I always got beans and rice. Some spices. Maybe some ice cream and milk Produce was iffey and you could grab all you wanted, most was past using, Got a big load of jalapenos one time. Just right to pickle before they were past prime. Breads, best for chicken feed. Sometimes I got a bit of good things and gave to others. I qualified due to income. I didn't really need it but took advantage of it while it lasted. Would get a turkey at Thanksgiving and Christmas. Usually one or two packages of meat of some kind. Usually chicken. Sometimes bacon.


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## wr (Aug 10, 2003)

My father was a guide and outfitter for many years and sardines were an item he stocked in case of an emergency. Given that there was always lots of sardines and no emergencies, I was that little girl that got sent to school with sardine sandwiches after hunting season


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## Vjk (Apr 28, 2020)

There are precisely 0 people in the USA that go hungry unless they choose to. Or their parents choose to. It is all because people no longer grow up with personal responsibility, family values, and self-reliance.


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## Vjk (Apr 28, 2020)

Vjk said:


> There are precisely 0 people in the USA that go hungry unless they choose to. Or their parents choose to. It is all because people no longer grow up with personal responsibility, family values, and self-reliance.


Add critical thinking skills to the list.


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## nodak3 (Feb 5, 2003)

Lack of critical thinking skills has been shown in responses to my response. ALL I said was that I think we can do better than giving parents food for their kids 4 times over. Once should be enough. If you get food stamps, you are covered. Manage them well. Or get the free meals at school. Or the pantries and commodities foods. Or if you get all of those, you really should not need backpacks of food to go home with you, now should you??

None of that affects the elderly since their kids will not be in school. Grandkids, maybe, if they are raising them, but then we should expect to help you feed them once, not four times per meal.

Safety nets? All in favor of them. But if I give you (and it is what I do as a taxpayer) money for a meal, do not ask me then for the actual food four more times as in commodities, pantries, school meals, and then back packs.


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## homesteadforty (Dec 4, 2007)

Vjk said:


> There are precisely 0 people in the USA that go hungry unless they choose to. Or their parents choose to. It is all because people no longer grow up with personal responsibility, family values, and self-reliance.


Such vision... such understanding... such compassion... you must swim in the milk of human kindness.


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## wr (Aug 10, 2003)

My common sense is a bit different. I've seen groceries make a huge jump over the past 2 years and wages have remained unchanged, unemployment is still high and many people have been forced to take pay cuts to hang on to their jobs, leaving a serious economic shortfall. 

I look at $5 eggs, $4 loaves of store brand bread, $6 milk and $20 trays of chicken breasts and wonder how on earth families and people on fixed incomes are expected to survive.


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## newfieannie (Dec 24, 2006)

yes indeed! people are really hurting out there. so are the food banks because a lot of those who use to give are unable anymore. they have to think of their own families. i use to but i'm partially supporting my son now and he's got to come first. i've cut out a lot of stuff myself to help him even before prices started to rise drastically. i've always baked my own bread etc but flour has doubled. i wait for sales mostly. there's a few things on sale today but i'm confined because of the heat warnings. hopefully i will get out before the sale is over. ~Georgia


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## Terri (May 10, 2002)

Vjk said:


> There are precisely 0 people in the USA that go hungry unless they choose to. Or their parents choose to. It is all because people no longer grow up with personal responsibility, family values, and self-reliance.


The problem is, jerks abound, and they do not wear name tags. Instead they prefer to pass as regular people. A bit more about the neighbor couple.

1. He claimed to be devout, attended church a lot, and told his wife he did not want her to work. So she did not work because he said that he could support the family, no problem.
2. They had 3 small kids
3. He fell in love with somebody else, and walked out at the end of a month leaving the family with no money and no food and the housing payment due. 
4. There was a recession on and it took the Mom 6 months to find a job. 

Yes, you can assign the blame if you wish, but in the mean time toddlers need to be fed. The food bank was able to feed them until she was approved for welfare, but not every area even has a food bank, let alone enough to give out enough food. 

People go hungry because of UNEXPECTED things. The government takes time to respond and little kids cannot go unfed until an appointment for a week from next Tuesday with the welfare office.

The food bank excells for such problems, ASSUMING that your community has a food bank, and assuming that the food bank has enough to give. And assuming can make a donkey out of "U" and "ME", as the old saying goes


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## Miss Kay (Mar 31, 2012)

My dog gets a can of sardines every morning. She loves it and it's good for her. Should be good for kids too.


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## gilberte (Sep 25, 2004)

Now that's one pampered puppy!


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## nodak3 (Feb 5, 2003)

I do not see anyone lacking empathy here. Sounds like what the "heartless" are saying is that in the first place, personal responsibility and better choices would eliminate SOME, not ALL, hunger in America. And then for those that are in those situations that can hit anyone out of the blue, WE HAVE SAFETY NETS. Use them, and you won't be hungry. As for me, I support safety nets. But I detest the redundancy in the system because we could help about 5 times the needy people for the same money spent if we did it wisely. That is MORE kindness, respect, and love for the suffering when you can seriously help MORE people by helping wisely.

And yes, prices are seriously high and it is getting difficult for most people to make ends meet. But lets be honest: most of us have places to trim the fat. I know one gal who works at a Mennonite food pantry. They cannot get people to accept fresh fruits and veggies, or whole wheat bread, or bagels, or any of what we think of as "high priced" specialty breads. Families will take boxed mac and cheese, but refuse butter, macaroni, cheese, and canned or powdered milk. Now before you get your panties in wad thinking I am heartless to the poor people, I mention that to say this: haven't we all had the same attitude? Haven't we all gotten upsetted off at the price of our favorite whing dang doodle at the store without considering cheaper alternatives? I surely stand convicted on that one.

We are on SS, and while this year's little raise helped it sure is not keeping up with inflation, much less the Jones's. And to top it off critters and excessive heat and drought are making the garden less productive than usual. So I am first in line saying I need to dust off some skills, consider more poor man meals, shop more hardnosed and get ingredients on sale, store, and just generally homestead my way through this.

And if that doesn't work, I am glad there are social safety nets and rather than be hungry I will danged well apply for and accept any I can get.


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## Terri (May 10, 2002)

Nodak3: well said!


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## snowlady (Aug 1, 2011)

Our daughter did her senior project on food deserts and insecurity especially on college campuses. As part of it she started a food and necessity pantry on campus. It was pretty interesting.


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## Danaus29 (Sep 12, 2005)

nodak3 said:


> Haven't we all gotten upsetted off at the price of our favorite whing dang doodle at the store without considering cheaper alternatives? I surely stand convicted on that one.


I was taught early that you can pay the price, buy something cheaper or go without. 

Great Value cheese doesn't taste like Sargento, but it's half the price and still tastes like cheese. I don't want to give up cheese so I often buy the cheaper alternative. Most people can't tell the difference once it's out of the wrapper and sliced.

Hubby's sister in law will eat only a certain brand of pancake syrup. When they used to visit us I kept the bottle of the brand she liked and kept it filled with a cheaper brand. She never figured it out.

I am still searching for cookies that taste like Cheryl's. Meanwhile I just don't eat Cheryl's cookies. Gas is too expensive to drive a 60 mile round trip to buy them. I have tried a few knock off home made recipes but it's summer and my kitchen is too hot to run the oven so that project is on hold. Kroger has a brand of cookies I like, I buy them if I want cookies.


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## Danaus29 (Sep 12, 2005)

There are people who choose to be hungry. Those are the ones who depend on fast food and frozen dinners. They could learn to make food at home but just don't want to. Give them a box of raw ingredients and they don't know it can produce several good meals. 

Then you have the people who have no money to buy even the raw ingredients, due to circumstances beyond their control. 

Not long ago our electric company shut off power to thousands of homes. Hundreds of people had no means to turn their raw ingredients into hot meals. Hundreds of people lost food stored in refrigerators and freezers. 

After the tornado hit hubby's mom's city, most residents had no electricity for over a week. When you depend on electricity to store and cook your food, you have immediate problems if that electricity is suddenly cut off for an extended period.


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## GTX63 (Dec 13, 2016)

Danaus29 said:


> There are people who choose to be hungry. Those are the ones who depend on fast food and frozen dinners. They could learn to make food at home but just don't want to. Give them a box of raw ingredients and they don't know it can produce several good meals.


My neighbors are having guests over this weekend. The girlfriend of a nephew didn't like what was cooked for breakfast and so she drove 12 miles into town to get a McDonalds breakfast.


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## homesteadforty (Dec 4, 2007)

nodak3 said:


> I do not see anyone lacking empathy here. Sounds like what the "heartless" are saying is that in the first place, personal responsibility and better choices would eliminate SOME, not *ALL*, hunger in America





Vjk said:


> There are precisely *0 people* in the USA that go hungry unless they choose to.


"*0 people*" sure sounds a lot like "*ALL*" to me and the statement that all hungry people "_choose"_ to go hungry sure sounds like both a lack of empathy and understanding.


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## oregon woodsmok (Dec 19, 2010)

The only people going hungry in America are the very young children of the drug addicts who use all their money for drugs and don't buy food for the kids. Other than that, everyone eats. Once the druggie's kids are five, they get two free meals a day at school, so they are no longer going without food.

If anyone has an unexpected emergency, there are food banks and soup kitchens and if the emergency goes on for more than a few days, there are food stamps.

I've volunteered in the food banks. No one is skinny and no one needs the food. They just take it because it is free. At the senior center, some of the SS recipients probably appreciate the food that stetches their budget, but they wouldn't starve to death without it. Most of the clientele at the food bank doesn't even need to stretch the food budget and they will refue to take good food that isn't convenient to eat without any effort.

When the USDA had the commodities program, the welfare recipients just threw most of the food into the garbage. Hungry people don't throw away flour, cornmeal, beans, and canned meat.


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## GTX63 (Dec 13, 2016)

It sounds like there are multiple definitions of "hunger" being used, as confirmed by the differences in the attitudes of some of the posters.


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## homesteadforty (Dec 4, 2007)

GTX63 said:


> It sounds like there are multiple definitions of "hunger" being used, as confirmed by the differences in the attitudes of some of the posters.


Yes... some people think if you can take the Euell Gibbons approach and have a cup of maggot soup and a handful of grass you don't really have to be hungry.

BTW... you have to cook your soup in an old tin can, over an open fire, in front of your brush shelter... I mean hell, if you have all that you are on easy street... right???


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## Vjk (Apr 28, 2020)

homesteadforty said:


> Such vision... such understanding... such compassion... you must swim in the milk of human kindness.


I note you do not reject the premise. I'll assume that you agree with me and just can't help being a Troll.


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## homesteadforty (Dec 4, 2007)

Vjk said:


> I note you do not reject the premise. I'll assume that you agree with me


If that's what you take from my post, there is nothing further I can say to help you.



> ...just can't help being a Troll.


Not a troll... always open, often very direct, sometimes sarcastic but I pretty much mean what I say and say what I mean.


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## nodak3 (Feb 5, 2003)

As to electricity going off: the rich may stockpile fancy foods like caviar and crackers, but even most poor can have a small stock of beanie wienies. If tornadoes, fires, floods, earthquakes, ice stomrs, pandemics, depressions, sandstorms, and planned power outages haven't taught folks to prep some non perishable as long as the can is intact and unrusted food, and ideally some water, any meds you need, and even a small camp stove or sterno stove or wood pile in case of disaster, I don't know how to help them.

While I enjoy Patara's how to videos, disagree with much of her doom and gloom, I do agree with her that nobody is coming to rescue us in case of any of the above. And that we need to use the sense God and granny gave us.


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## Terri (May 10, 2002)

oregon woodsmok said:


> When the USDA had the commodities program, the welfare recipients just threw most of the food into the garbage. Hungry people don't throw away flour, cornmeal, beans, and canned meat.


When the Feds were handing out food instead of money, many my playmates all gushed about how good the government cheese tasted. I wanted Mom to get some, but she told me that Federal cheese could not be bought. And so a lot of the commodities were NOT being thrown out

And at the food bank that I sometimes give to, the room with the food is set up like a grocery store and the recipient chooses what they want, within some limits of things like a limit on the number of cans of meat. etc.

If the recipients are throwing away the food that they are given then that is a management problem.


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## Terri (May 10, 2002)

nodak3 said:


> As to electricity going off: the rich may stockpile fancy foods like caviar and crackers, but even most poor can have a small stock of beanie wienies. If tornadoes, fires, floods, earthquakes, ice stomrs, pandemics, depressions, sandstorms, and planned power outages haven't taught folks to prep some non perishable as long as the can is intact and unrusted food, and ideally some water, any meds you need, and even a small camp stove or sterno stove or wood pile in case of disaster, I don't know how to help them.
> 
> While I enjoy Patara's how to videos, disagree with much of her doom and gloom, I do agree with her that nobody is coming to rescue us in case of any of the above. And that we need to use the sense God and granny gave us.


Yeah. Even when money was tight, ESPECIALLY when money was tight, I had 2-3 boxes of things like canned beans in case of unexpected problems. I bought them on sale because I knew that sooner or later we would want them, and also because I did not want to pay full price

Now that the kids are grown I have gotten organized with a proper pantry. I could not have done that while the kids were growing up as there were too many distractions going on.


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## whiterock (Mar 26, 2003)

Terri said:


> Yeah. Even when money was tight, ESPECIALLY when money was tight, I had 2-3 boxes of things like canned beans in case of unexpected problems. I bought them on sale because I knew that sooner or later we would want them, and also because I did not want to pay full price
> 
> Now that the kids are grown I have gotten organized with a proper pantry. I could not have done that while the kids were growing up as there were too many distractions going on.


kids are grown, divorced, still buy on sale and keep a stock. Prices ain't going down and pay ain't goin up.


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## Terri (May 10, 2002)

whiterock said:


> kids are grown, divorced, still buy on sale and keep a stock. Prices ain't going down and pay ain't goin up.


Yeah. Of course I COULD choose to pay full price, but I would really rather not


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## Mish (Oct 15, 2015)

GTX63 said:


> It sounds like there are multiple definitions of "hunger" being used, as confirmed by the differences in the attitudes of some of the posters.


Yes, being specific matters.

Most of the ads I've seen talking about the numbers of hungry in America say, "There are X number of people at risk for hunger."

I mean, that's technically everyone at different points of any day. I'm at risk of being hungry pretty soon because it's almost dinner time. That definition tells you nothing about how food secure/insecure I am.


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## GTX63 (Dec 13, 2016)

Mish, even going hungry for several days isn't the same as being malnourished, though one could point out that even a person consuming 2500 calories a day might be malnourished.
Terms like "food security" are a turn off to me because it is government manipulation and socio marketing.
My parents would consider hunger to be an empty cupboard, with dirty, hollow cheeked kids eating one item from a bowl maybe once per day. 

Hunger.
Extended Hunger.
Malnourishment.
Starvation.
Depending on when you were born and what you recall your parents/grandparents experiencing, we might all put different percentages to each category, and maybe all be right.


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## Danaus29 (Sep 12, 2005)

oregon woodsmok said:


> When the USDA had the commodities program, the welfare recipients just threw most of the food into the garbage. Hungry people don't throw away flour, cornmeal, beans, and canned meat.


Hungry people who don't know how to fix a meal from scratch would throw that stuff away because they don't know how to make it into a meal.

Back when we lived in a little town and the main employer closed, there were a lot of people who were hungry because they didn't know how to make raw ingredients into food. One woman asked me if I was really going to use the beans I got from WIC. She had no idea they could be made into soup.

You don't get food stamps automatically in Ohio. The application process takes several weeks, and that's only if your application gets processed correctly. The last time hubby was let go from his job, the person taking our application told us "you''re white, you speak English, you can get another job". His application for unemployment was never processed. 

During the covid shut-down applications for unemployment were not processed for months. Job and Family services will not process your food stamp application until your unemployment compensation has been processed. I know people who are still waiting for their unemployment application to be processed nearly 2 years later. Yes, they have found other jobs in the meantime. But they had to get money from friends and relatives to afford ramen. Back then the food pantries were having to turn people away because there was very little food available.


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## mreynolds (Jan 1, 2015)

I understand there are situations that lead to poverty. There are also situations that lead to getting out of it. 

When I first got married years ago there were no jobs to be had. My wife had 3 children we had to take care of. The only work we could find was cleaning a school after hours. It was 20 dollars a day for 5 days a week. Both of us combined brought in 200 dollars a week. I had a house note on a trailer house that had to be paid. 300 a month plus bills. This was 30 years ago. We paid our bills and ate. We only ate beans, rice, cheap cereal for breakfast and sandwiches with cheap lunch meat. Never ever did we get on the dole. Looking back, maybe I should have but I didn't. When I wasn't working my 4 hours or so a day, I was mowing lawns for groceries or cash. I have been homeless before, so I was really not thinking I was poor. My wife stood by my decisions and never complained (much anyway). 

Fast forward and now I have kids that value hard work and know that hard times are coming. It's only a matter of when. When my son's wife got a brain tumor, he had to take a leave of absence from work. He never asked for any money but me and his brother gave him a gift of money so he could eat while sitting in Houston with his wife for 2 weeks. He probably should have taken a handout too, but he didn't. Now, she is fine and so are they. They are thriving and better for it. 

When you get in a rut of having someone else do things for you, you lose the ability to do for yourself. It degrades slowly over time and then one day, you forget how. You lose confidence in your own ability. My greatest fear is not death. It is that day I will cease to be able to provide for myself and/or my family. I never want to see that day. I hope I dont.


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## Evons hubby (Oct 3, 2005)

Danaus29 said:


> One woman asked me if I was really going to use the beans I got from WIC. She had no idea they could be made into soup.


it never ceases to amaze me how people can grow up, become adults and not know how to boil beans! Or fry taters, make biscuits or gravy…. This ain’t rocket surgery!


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## Danaus29 (Sep 12, 2005)

I don't know how to make gravy. That was Grandma's specialty (along with her turkey dressing) and she never let anyone else do it. When she stopped cooking for family dinners the bravy came from a jar and the dressing came from a box.


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## Evons hubby (Oct 3, 2005)

Danaus29 said:


> I don't know how to make gravy. That was Grandma's specialty (along with her turkey dressing) and she never let anyone else do it. When she stopped cooking for family dinners the bravy came from a jar and the dressing came from a box.


A bit of hot grease couple tablespoons, add couple tablespoons of flour. Stir into a paste and cook for couple minutes. Add whatever liquid (cold) depending on what gravy you want… milk, chicken broth, beef broth etc. stir steadily while bringing to boil. Boil for couple minutes until thickened. Serve over bread, biscuits, taters…. Enjoy!


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## Danaus29 (Sep 12, 2005)

I'll have to try the gravy when the weather cools off. 

I can make pudding, pie crust and chocolate cake with 3 different frostings from scratch. Does that count for anything?


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## Evons hubby (Oct 3, 2005)

Danaus29 said:


> I'll have to try the gravy when the weather cools off.
> 
> I can make pudding, pie crust and chocolate cake with 3 different frostings from scratch. Does that count for anything?


Sure does! Anything you can do for yourself makes you less dependent on others!


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## Danaus29 (Sep 12, 2005)

Grandma made a really awesome butterscotch pie with meringue topping. The only boxes involved were what the flour and sugar came in. She never made biscuits, ever. But she always had some wonderful deserts for after supper.

I forgot to add that she insisted my sister and I learn to make those pies from scratch as well as a lot of other desserts. She made my brother learn how to make jelly and zucchini bread.


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## whiterock (Mar 26, 2003)

Evons hubby said:


> A bit of hot grease couple tablespoons, add couple tablespoons of flour. Stir into a paste and cook for couple minutes. Add whatever liquid (cold) depending on what gravy you want… milk, chicken broth, beef broth etc. stir steadily while bringing to boil. Boil for couple minutes until thickened. Serve over bread, biscuits, taters…. Enjoy!


For turkey gravy, add chopped giblets and boiled eggs. Cook the giblets first, chop fine as well as eggs. Salt and Pepper. 

Dressing.... Make a pan of cornbread, add crumbled hamburger buns that have been toasted ( about half and half, maybe more on cornbread side ), or biscuits, add broth, a couple of eggs, onion and celery fine chopped. Salt, pepper, poultry seasoning to taste. I like mine moist so make it soupy, put in baking dish and in oven at 350 until it browns on top and firms back up a bit. Depends how much you make to determine the time. Simple but time consuming to make. Very well worth it.


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## Mish (Oct 15, 2015)

Evons hubby said:


> it never ceases to amaze me how people can grow up, become adults and not know how to boil beans! Or fry taters, make biscuits or gravy…. This ain’t rocket surgery!


Some people didn't have parents that know how to do those things. Or parents that teach them anything, much less cooking. My mom knew how to make exactly two "home cooked" meals, both using packaged items. We mostly ate frozen convenience food, because that's what she bought. I cooked it because she was at work, starting around the age of 7. The only exposure to actual fresh cooking I had was my grandparents, but that was way beyond my abilities as a child (and they lived about an hour away so it wasn't a daily thing, watching them cook often enough to learn how or having them help me grocery shop).

I don't blame those people, you don't know what you don't know until you know something different. It might as well be rocket surgery if you've never seen someone do it before.


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## nodak3 (Feb 5, 2003)

A couple of years ago here the supply chain broke down. Some were laid off due to covid, some were affected by it so their health would not let them work, and for a short time the trucks supplying the stores were in short supply. Rich or poor alike were caught unprepared, and the well prepped still could not access fresh food. We were all extremely grateful when those farm to family trucks started coming and a lot of us waited in long car lines for hours to get that food. It was also a time to do some telephone outreach and offer to help. See, a lot of folks did not know how to cook those foods, or that they could can or freeze or dehydrate many of them for winter. We did not know how long the supply chain would be impinged.

Some folks wanted the help and made the most of the food. Many talked about just tossing it to the trash. Around here you KNEW you would get a case of individual yogurts, or a quart of yogurt. Not everyone knew you could freeze it and it would be dandy freeze pops.

When folks wanted help a lot of us oldsters with skills phone talked or even zoom walked them through processing or cooking. If they did not want help, just kept tossing the food, we marked them off our lists to call when the garden came in and we had food to spare.

These days, ignorance is usually no excuse. Maybe your mama did not teach you, but if you can use a cell phone or play a video game you have the skills to access a youtube video, and there isn't much aside from brain surgery you cannot learn there.

Most addicts do not seek help until they are allowed the consequences of their actions. Enablers just keep them sick. It works the same way with hunger, poverty, etc. We have to make sure there is adequate meaningful help, but if we just excuse poor decisions with "they don't know how" instead of insisting "if you want my help you have to acquire these skills" then we keep them perpetually poor.

I've actually had people tell me we should not try to help people out of poverty since they supply the rest of us with a source to do charitable deeds toward, thus enriching our souls. Hogwash and poppycock!

Best thing Uncle Sam did for my family in the dust bowl and depression years was open school kitchens to people. If you grew a garden you could come, use the govt pressure canners, have an extension lady teach you how, and receive free jars and lids to use, so many per person. You canned what you grew. My grandma had exactly 3 weeks of school and was functionally illiterate. But learning that simple skill let them start to eat well, that let them have better health and better brains, which allowed them better work, which meant they could start acquiring a little capital. She died a woman of some means. All because a hand up, not a hand out, was offered.


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## mzgarden (Mar 16, 2012)

mzgarden said:


> ..........
> On the other hand my friend's adult daughter works at a local food pantry and once or twice a month she gathers up produce that no one wants and drops it off to me (and others) - sometimes several banana boxes full. She says they get a lot of donations and often the fresh lingers so she brings a bunch to me to keep it from being wasted. I redistribute to about 4-5 families I know will eat it. Some I keep and we eat it and I don't feel one bit guilty. Some is too far gone and it goes to the chickens.
> 
> Around here, the food pantries are crying for people to take the produce, whether you're at risk or not, they're just happy for someone to take it and use it.


Just as an example, got a call from my friend's daughter yesterday -- they have cabbage, turnips and some other random produce - do I want it before it goes in the trash? Yep. So here she comes and delivers - 30 heads of cabbage, 15 turnips, 35 cucumbers, 20 zucchini, 10 yellow squash, bags of kale and turnip greens, 25 patty pan squash, 10 loaves of whole wheat/multi grain bread, 3 pounds of frozen ground turkey plus I forget what else. Why? because people donate it thinking they are helping (most of this produce came right from a garden or farm as it was not 'commercially' cleaned up) and yet the clients want boxes of macaroni & cheese, white bread, apples, oranges and (nasty, IMO) frosted cakes, cupcakes, donuts, etc. I've got 3 families lined up for some of this and I've working on more that I know will use it. It's sad - somebody grew this and donated it and the clients are not interested.


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## homesteadforty (Dec 4, 2007)

Evons hubby said:


> it never ceases to amaze me how people can grow up, become adults and not know how to boil beans! Or fry taters, make biscuits or gravy…. This ain’t rocket surgery!


It's rocket surgery if you've never been exposed to it. 1 + 1 = 2... easy, right? But what if you've never seen the number 1... is it still so simple???

True story here ... my first wife had no idea you could go to a store, buy a package of ground beef, form it into burgers, slap it on a store-bought bun with a few condiments and have a hamburger. She was literally freaked out about touching the beef to form the burger. She also didn't know that milk came from a cow... she loved milk but wouldn't drink it after our first trip to my grans farm and she saw the cow being milked... thought that it was nasty to drink something that came out of a cows teat.

If it didn't come from a fast food place, she didn't know what to do with it. It wasn't because she was lazy, or stupid, or any of the other bigoted reasons some people like to spout off about (I'm not referring to you)... she simply didn't know.


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## newfieannie (Dec 24, 2006)

i've seen all that when i was going to the community food center before the pandemic to drop off some money in the donation box and chat with some friends and whatnot. they served 3 meals a day there and after they would have cooking lessons. there would be veggies there very inexpensive or free at the end that they would grow in the community garden but a lot of people there were homeless. what would they do with a bunch of cabbage , turnip etc. etc. and a lot had room in a rooming house but no stove. no wonder they took the other stuff that didn't require any preparation. some of them all they had was a back pk and no telling where they would spend the night. after a cooking session one day i brought back milk, ww bread and whatnot even though i had plenty rather than see it dumped. 

i haven't been since the pandemic started to avoid crowds but maybe they are getting rid of a lot more now since a lot more people are taking advantage of it since prices on everything went through the roof.people who have the means to prepare it. ~Georgia


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## Evons hubby (Oct 3, 2005)

Mish said:


> I don't blame those people, you don't know what you don't know until you know something different. It might as well be rocket surgery if you've never seen someone do it before.


oh, I don’t fault these folks, it just amazes me!


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## homesteadforty (Dec 4, 2007)

nodak3 said:


> These days, ignorance is usually no excuse. Maybe your mama did not teach you, but if you can use a cell phone or play a video game you have the skills to access a youtube video, and there isn't much aside from brain surgery you cannot learn there.


I agree with all the rest of your post but I have issues with this part... it assumes one has access to a computer and internet. Many people are starting to feel that those things are ubiquitous... but they're not.


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## nodak3 (Feb 5, 2003)

Former librarian here. If your feet will get you to the free soup kitchen or food pantry, they will get you to the library where you can access computers. If you do not know how to use one, ask a librarian. We always love to help. We can get you the handouts from county extension if you cannot get to their office. There are ways. Our library used to give free commodity food cooking demonstrations, giving you the free lunch made there. We would read articles and books to people if they could not read. So if you neede to know how to grow and prep a green bean, we would help you get that knowledge. It was our job.

There is nothing bigoted about saying ignorance is no excuse. Yes, take the prepared food if offered short term but ask, question, fight for and find a way to gain the knowledge you need to survive. Because hint hint: inflation, food shortages, weather issues, wars, etc may well dry up the most benevolent people's ability to give.

I've known section 8 housing folks in motels with only a microwave and tiny fridge buy healthy meals and serve them to their kids. Things like premade meatballs from the freezer section or chicken nuggets, but made with a nuked potato and an opened and nuked in a bowl can of green beans. And I have known food insecure laid off folks with well made well appointed kitchens refuse to snap a bean, shell a pea, or cook a spud.

I have squash envy right now, by the way for those getting an abundance of them. Haven't been able to get a plant to survive long enough to make one this summer

As to the wife who could not make burgers: she sure as shootin could see someone else was making them. She knew they did not just drop out of the sky. Had she wanted to know how they did it, I am positive someone would have shown her or told her. So she knew 1--burgers existed. She knew plus 1--burgers can be eaten. No reason she could not compute 1 and 1 and figure out they had to be made. From there you ask and learn how.

I think we all agree there are folks incapable of taking care of themselves. They need facilities where they can be cared for, not streeted in my opinion. And there are folks that don't know how but are capable. They need help getting the knowledge. There are folks in short term pickles. I know how to grow, can, and cook and serve stuff but let a twister blow my house away and I might need that gatorade and granola bar, thank the Lord.

But if I have the home and functioning kitchen,, am able bodied and of reasonably sound mind, continued supply of gatorade and granola bars is just plain codependent enabling, making the giver feel good and trapping me in my own stink.


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## Terri (May 10, 2002)

Former Librarian, a LOT of teens are afraid to go to the library. They have never been and they do not know what to do or how to behave. I always tell them that it is easy, and what they will need to do to check out books, and a lot of them are surprised that it is that simple .

Now that my kids are grown I talk to few teens, but I do not think that things have changed in the last 10 years. Kids who have never been think that it is hard and/or scary. And no teen wants to look awkward in public so they stay away. Which is sad. I made it a point to take my kids. Apparently not everybody does


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## homesteadforty (Dec 4, 2007)

nodak3 said:


> Former librarian here. If your feet will get you to the free soup kitchen or food pantry, they will get you to the library where you can access computers.


Just sayin' that not one size fits all... so to speak.

County here is 1,000 plus square miles. There is _one_ library in the county. That library is in the one town (over 250 people) in the county. For many it's a 30+ mile drive into said library. That's typically about an hour drive.

There is a food pantry in town but for many it is very difficult to get there. Other, smaller food pantries are run out of local churches and community centers. Those churches and community centers also _try_ to serve a supper once a week... sometimes they don't have the means to do so. For many it is a 20-mile round trip to get to even the "local" resources.



> We can get you the handouts from county extension if you cannot get to their office. There are ways. Our library used to give free commodity food cooking demonstrations, giving you the free lunch made there. We would read articles and books to people if they could not read. So if you neede to know how to grow and prep a green bean, we would help you get that knowledge. It was our job.


That is an admirable job indeed.

I do notice a number of "we's" and "our's" and at least one "used to" though... I have no doubt that you helped as much as possible but surely you know that the situation is different in many other places and situations.



> There is nothing bigoted about saying ignorance is no excuse.


Maybe bigoted is an imprecise word choice. I possibly should have said stereotyped and/or judgmental.



doc- said:


> all the* HoHos & DingDongs* you want.





nodak3 said:


> *food stamp money does not go for food*. It is likely used for other legitimate needs or *for alcohol, drugs, or entertainment.*





Vjk said:


> 0 people in the USA that go hungry* unless they choose to*





oregon woodsmok said:


> The only people going hungry in America are the very young children of the* drug addicts who use all their money for drugs and don't buy food for the kids.*


All that smacks of poor folks being lazy alcoholic drug addicts that just want to freeload. Yes, some are like that but many that I know are not.



> Because hint hint: inflation, food shortages, weather issues, wars, etc may well dry up the most benevolent people's ability to give.


Don't I know that. I planted and raised extra this year just for that reason. I typically prepare c.s.a. style boxes from the homestead for around 10 families and either deliver them or distribute from the church each week. This year there are another 7 families I know (in the local community) that are seriously struggling. I'm doing the best I can but am finding it very difficult to keep up. 



> I have squash envy right now, by the way for those getting an abundance of them. Haven't been able to get a plant to survive long enough to make one this summer


Not meaning to rub it in... but I am up to my ears in squash this year.



> As to the wife who could not make burgers: she sure as shootin could see someone else was making them.


You would think so but her mother (my m.i.l.) didn't even have a fry pan or spatula in the house. If their food didn't come from the local sub shop, fast food place or convenience store they didn't eat.



> She knew they did not just drop out of the sky.


For that family, they thought it came out of a bag or box... they never thought about how it was made... it basically just showed up when the opened the bag.



> Had she wanted to know how they did it, I am positive someone would have shown her or told her. So she knew 1--burgers existed. She knew plus 1--burgers can be eaten. No reason she could not compute 1 and 1 and figure out they had to be made. From there you ask and learn how.


Like I said, that's easy when you know the answer but not so easy if you don't know what numbers are.


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## homesteadforty (Dec 4, 2007)

Danaus29 said:


> I can make pudding, pie crust and *chocolate cake* with 3 different frostings from scratch. Does that count for anything?


Sure does count for something... it earns you a visit (or condemns you to one ) if you send me your address.


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## oregon woodsmok (Dec 19, 2010)

Danaus29 said:


> ............, there were a lot of people who were hungry because they didn't know how to make raw ingredients into food. One woman asked me if I was really going to use the beans I got from WIC. She had no idea they could be made into soup............


If I had hungry kids and a bag of dry beans I didn't know what to do with, I'd find out what to do with them to feed my kids. I wouldn't sit on my butt and cry about my hungry kids until some charitable person came by and gave me a bucket of fried chicken.

It says right there on the package of beans how to cook them. You don't even have to get to the library or call a friend.

The welfare recipients would indeed use the welfare cheese and butter. It was everything else that they threw away. My father had a dumpster behind his business and you could tell what day the commodities were handed out because that dumpster would be full of bags of flour and corn meal and cans of meat and dry milk.

I was never on welfare, but I've eaten a lot of government commodities because my friends on welfare were throwing all that food away and I would take it and cook it up for my own family. It was perfectly good food, just not handed out already cooked into pizza or burgers, although there was just about everything you would need to make it into pizza or burgers.

The entire point being that if people were really honestly hungry, they would figure out how to use the food they were given.

At the food bank, me and another volunteer who had chickens would take home many shopping bags full of lettuce that the customers refused to take. I took home fruit and made so much banana bread that my family rebelled. I'd take home buffalo milk mozarella cheese and brie and yogurt that they wouldn't take. They wanted the cakes, the donuts, and mac and cheese and canned spaghetti-Os and they would leave the raw potatoes and vegetables and the dry beans.

Nothing can be sent back to the food bank. It the customers won't take it, it gets thrown away and a lot got thrown away because the few volunteers would only have small families and could not possibley use it all. although we used what we could, taking what was left at the end of the day.

And again, the point is, if they really were hungry, they would have taken the food instead of picking through it and only taking the choice bits.


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## TripleD (Feb 12, 2011)

Since I was the OP. Disposable truck plus nephew and I soaking wet in the oldest vehicle in the line. They insisted we got double. 
I was embarrassed to be there but he has two sons. I gave most away. The roast beef was delicious!?!! Mom canned tomatoes today...


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## Mish (Oct 15, 2015)

I'm not saying people can't find out how to cook things, just that for some people, they've got so much other stuff going on that learning how to cook, I don't know, fresh okra, is something that never even occurs to them. There has to be curiosity there in the first place, some people don't have the bandwidth for curiosity for various reasons.

I know I personally was struggling so hard to keep my head above water when I left home that taking time to go to the library to learn how to cook was never even a fleeting thought in my mind. That mind space was occupied by just trying to figure out the world and get by well enough that my kid wasn't hungry or cold. 

Some people start quite a bit behind the normal starting line (not just talking about poverty), and often, learning how to cook fresh food is wayyyyyyy down on the list of priorities. It's not always stupidity or laziness. Maybe not even usually.


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## homesteadforty (Dec 4, 2007)

Mish said:


> I'm not saying people can't find out how to cook things, just that for some people, they've got so much other stuff going on that learning how to cook, I don't know, fresh okra, is something that never even occurs to them...
> 
> I know I personally was struggling so hard to keep my head above water when I left home that taking time to go to the library to learn how to cook was never even a fleeting thought in my mind...
> 
> Some people start quite a bit behind the normal starting line (not just talking about poverty), and often, learning how to cook fresh food is wayyyyyyy down on the list of priorities. It's not always stupidity or laziness. Maybe not even usually.


Thank you Mish... that's the point I've been trying to make.

Some (many actually) people have such a myopic, egocentric view, they think because they served a hundred (or two or three) people at a food bank in their community or because they've seen 50 people buying the "wrong" thing with their food stamps that they have welfare recipients all figured out. They think that because they (admirably) worked their way out of poverty that anybody else can do the same thing... I mean I did it and your situation, time, place, etc. is exactly like mine was... you would be able to do it too if you went so lazy... right?

Government stats say there are 38 million hungry people in the U.S. Let's assume they're exaggerating and use a smaller number... say 5 million. Let's be extra generous and say any one person has seen 1000 people misuse there food stamps... or throw away food from the food bank. Take your 1000 lazy, drug addict, food stamp recipients and divide that by 5,000,000... that means you've seen .0002% of the poor.

My problem is not that I don't think abuse don't occur or that some aren't lazy... it's that you think that because you've seen .0002% of poor people you assume you have all the other poor people figured out. You think you know every situation... and every circumstance... and every condition that millions of people find themselves in.

I'm going to stop there... if I haven't made my point, anything further is a waste of my time and energy.


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## Terri (May 10, 2002)

There is something wrong with a procedure that forces people to take food that they do not want, in order to receive the food that they do want.

Our neighbor lady, with empty shelves and zero income had 3 kids to feed. She needed the entire amount of food that she was offered. And she was glad to get it. But some other people would really only need half of what is offered, and they should not be forced to take the split pea soup mix, for example, in order to get the bread, canned corn, etc.


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## gilberte (Sep 25, 2004)

Our granddaughter has been helping us cook since she was 4 years old. She's 7 now and made blueberry muffins yesterday pretty much all by herself. I asked her if she needed any help and she told me, "NO!, I can do it, you can do the dishes after".


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## I_don't_know (Sep 28, 2012)

Forcast said:


> During covid they used school buses to deliver lunch every week day. Parents posted what was in the bag. Every day one week a can of sardines, chips or cookies, cup of applesauce. How many kids eat sardines?


The latest Good Fish Guide ratings from the Marine Conservation Society are good news for tinned fish, with *herring and sardines joining mackerel and some tuna on the green rated*, or Best Choice, list.Apr 11, 2022. 
That said, why not introduce kids to something new? I use to sneek sardines in musterd sauce in to the mack andcheese. The kids liked it; they did not know what it was!


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## I_don't_know (Sep 28, 2012)

Fishindude said:


> We have a food pantry in our little town that dispenses food a couple days each week.
> There will be a line of cars a block or two long lined up to get theirs. Sad part is most are all later model expensive vehicles, sitting in line burning $5 / gal gas.
> I'm sure some are truly needy, but it appears the majority are just taking advantage of something free.


You may well be right but; are you aware? My daughter was on SSI. She could only work 12 hours a week. She was not allowed to save more than $2000. With these rediculous restrictions the poor are forced ferther into poverity. They must take out a loan to get a car. 
My daughter loved her job, and would have gladly worked full time, but her medical problems ment she had to have insurance. Whe not set the system so a person on any kink of government support can work; as their income goes up the payment from the government goes down. She was autistic, had CP, scoilice, a fused hip, and was why over wieht. She realy wanted to work! She enjoied her job! But the government said NO!


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## mreynolds (Jan 1, 2015)

I_don't_know said:


> You may well be right but; are you aware? My daughter was on SSI. She could only work 12 hours a week. She was not allowed to save more than $2000. With these rediculous restrictions the poor are forced ferther into poverity. They must take out a loan to get a car.
> My daughter loved her job, and would have gladly worked full time, but her medical problems ment she had to have insurance. Whe not set the system so a person on any kink of government support can work; as their income goes up the payment from the government goes down. She was autistic, had CP, scoilice, a fused hip, and was why over wieht. She realy wanted to work! She enjoied her job! But the government said NO!


This. Exactly. 

I have been saying this for years but to closed minds. It's like they don't want you to get off the dole. Once you're on it it's three times as hard to get off it.


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

I_don't_know said:


> You may well be right but; are you aware? My daughter was on SSI. She could only work 12 hours a week. She was not allowed to save more than $2000. With these rediculous restrictions the poor are forced ferther into poverity. They must take out a loan to get a car.
> My daughter loved her job, and would have gladly worked full time, but her medical problems ment she had to have insurance. Whe not set the system so a person on any kink of government support can work; as their income goes up the payment from the government goes down. She was autistic, had CP, scoilice, a fused hip, and was why over wieht. She realy wanted to work! She enjoied her job! But the government said NO!


I so admire your daughter.

She is purposely made dependent on the government. Instead she should be allowed to prosper and not lose essential services.


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## I_don't_know (Sep 28, 2012)

Terri said:


> There has always been hunger in the USA, and there have always been people who try to help
> 
> My neighbor lady had her husband leave her and the kids, and he used his paycheck to get himself into an apartment. And, she was waiting on the paycheck to buy food as things were tight. She was too proud to let people know that they were in trouble. So after thinking things over and giving most of the food to the kids she went to the food pantry, and the pantry fed them all until she got a job
> 
> ...


May God Bless You!


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## I_don't_know (Sep 28, 2012)

Forcast said:


> I agree all food not sold and put in dumpster get big fine each day. Hire homeless to monitor the stuff and issue tickets no less the $3000


The stores are greedy!!! They are afraid if you get it for free you won’t buy from them. 

There is another side to this story. A family on food stamps or any other government support program does not need cable TV and a cell phone for each person. There is a difference between need and want. 

The idea of the poor being given a job checking on the waist of the stores sounds great. How about a reward for someone reporting this waste.


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## nodak3 (Feb 5, 2003)

Would it be fair to say we all agree there are some folks needing help? All of us are doing all we can to help? That some folks (not all) that need help need to help themselves? And that ideas like "teens are afraid of libraries" and "some will never think of cooking fresh foods" are going to be traps that might well have them starve to death?

I think of the times when my grandparents and their kids had only coffee and cornbread to live on for months at a time. Learning the skills to produce food, preserve food, and properly cook food saved their lives.

All I will say is I am sharing food this morning. But it is homegrown fresh veggies. If that isn't something you want on your menu for whatever reason, I sure as heck am not trucking off to town to buy you a box of mac and cheese.


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

My wife is on her way with peach preserves for our elder neighbor that broke her hip.

We canned 18 quarts of peaches.

We took the peelings and made 15 pints of preserves. They are lovely. 

I tried to dye a white shirt in the pretty peach water we used to peel the peaches. Looked great. The color was not fast.


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## Danaus29 (Sep 12, 2005)

IMO, people on govt assistance should not be dropped if their income goes up by $5 a month. I know there has to be some sort of guideline but a salary increase of $5 gross pay should not cause the loss of $300 (supposition, not supported by real numbers) in food stamps. 

One of my coworkers who was on disability lost $150 in food stamps because of an unexpected bonus that put her $2 over the monthly limit.


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## wr (Aug 10, 2003)

I_don't_know said:


> The stores are greedy!!! They are afraid if you get it for free you won’t buy from them.
> 
> There is another side to this story. A family on food stamps or any other government support program does not need cable TV and a cell phone for each person. There is a difference between need and want.
> 
> The idea of the poor being given a job checking on the waist of the stores sounds great. How about a reward for someone reporting this waste.


Stores are less concerned about greed than liability issues. Our stores currently supply a co-op that gives local small animal owners the opportunity to pick up as much surplus as they want but each person is only allowed to pick up twice a week.


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## homesteadforty (Dec 4, 2007)

nodak3 said:


> Would it be fair to say we all agree there are some folks needing help? All of us are doing all we can to help? That some folks (not all) that need help need to help themselves?...


I think that is a fair assessment.


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## Kelly Craig (Oct 10, 2021)

There is that, and that some of us do not live on a portable phone, though we have such a tool for breakdowns, customer calls and so on.




homesteadforty said:


> I agree with all the rest of your post but I have issues with this part... it assumes one has access to a computer and internet. Many people are starting to feel that those things are ubiquitous... but they're not.


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## Kelly Craig (Oct 10, 2021)

EXACTLY - If someone made $2.500.00 a month and had to pay out $500.00 in support, while caring for a new family of, say three, they'd not qualify because the figures are based on gross, not take home. 




Danaus29 said:


> IMO, people on govt assistance should not be dropped if their income goes up by $5 a month. I know there has to be some sort of guideline but a salary increase of $5 gross pay should not cause the loss of $300 (supposition, not supported by real numbers) in food stamps.
> 
> One of my coworkers who was on disability lost $150 in food stamps because of an unexpected bonus that put her $2 over the monthly limit.


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## DebbieJ (Oct 9, 2016)

This is one reason I think that Home Economics should be taught in every school and it should be mandatory. So should be Auto Mechanics. We all need to know how to cook, clean, and do laundry. We also need to know how to take care of our automobile. Put gas in, check oil, tires, etc.


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## GTX63 (Dec 13, 2016)

It may not need to be mandatory, but it should be given equal credit as any math history, CRT or gender nonsense being taught.


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## nodak3 (Feb 5, 2003)

Not sure of any numbers, but was watching a video last night. Speaker dealt with need that is incident specific--got laid off, got sick, got old and frail, natural disaster, economic downturn, and how anyone can have short term poverty.

Then said that when it comes to long term poverty and need, there are 3 proven preventatives. Do all 3 and you have a good chance of avoiding serious need. They are: finish school, at least high school. Do not commit a crime. Do not make babies until in a stable marriage.

I kind of thought: duh!


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## DebbieJ (Oct 9, 2016)

GTX63 said:


> It may not need to be mandatory, but it should be given equal credit as any math history, CRT or gender nonsense being taught.


It isn’t even taught to in school in East Texas. Simple living isn’t taught either. Most children and some parents have no idea how to cook from scratch. If it doesn't come from a can or box, too many don’t know how to cook. So very sad.


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## I_don't_know (Sep 28, 2012)

I can see one problem with this conversation. We are using logic and Commonsense. The gov does not allow that sort of stuff. I have often woundered when they hire the people that make the rules, if they give them an IQ test and find the have an IQ will they not hire them? I seems like the only logical they can come up with such dumb rules!


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## Evons hubby (Oct 3, 2005)

nodak3 said:


> Not sure of any numbers, but was watching a video last night. Speaker dealt with need that is incident specific--got laid off, got sick, got old and frail, natural disaster, economic downturn, and how anyone can have short term poverty.


I dealt with long term poverty all my life until I got old. It’s been pretty sooth sailing financially since I got old and sick.


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