# what is the goat 'grading' system?



## cathleenc (Aug 16, 2007)

I've been all over the adga site and can't find the info I am looking for - I know it's basic - but would like to review. Can you refer me to a link/site?

looking for explanations of:
grade
recorded grade
american
purebred
etc....

thanks!


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## AnnaS (Nov 29, 2003)

"grade" is a generic livestock term for animals that have one purebred parent, usually the sire. 

"recorded grade" or "grade (insert breed here)" are the ADGA terms for an animal that is one of the following: certified to meet a registered breed standard by a non-owner ADGA member OR met production requirements on an official test OR the kid whose dam or maternal granddam are of unknown or unrecorded parentage. Sire/grandsires must be registered. 

A doe becomes "American (breed)" when she is 7/8th of one breed, with all recorded ancestors meeting the breed standard. Once you have one American in a pedigree, the offspring will allways be American, even if you are ten generations out. Lamanchas and Sables allow for upgrading to purebred, however. Nigerians cannot be grade or graded up. 

"Purebreds" are animals who have every single ancestor registered, and 100% descended from original imports. 

Say you go to the sale barn and buy an unregistered goat that looks just like a Togg. You have another ADGA breeder look her over and sign a "Native on Appearance". She gets recorded (not registered) and ADGA sends you brown colored papers with a recordation number and a pedigree that says, unknown unknown for the sire/dam.

She will go into the Recorded Grade herdbook.
You breed her to a registered Togg buck and get a doe kid, who is Recorded Grade 1/2 Togg. Her milk records go under Grade Togg and she's shown in Experimental classes. She also gets brown papers.

You breed this RG 1/2 Togg doeling to a Togg and get a Recorded Grade 3/4 Togg doeling. Her milk records go under Grade Togg and she's shown in Experimental classes. More brown papers.

You take THIS doeling, breed her to yet another Togg buck, and you get a 100% American Togg doeling. Her milk records go under Toggenburg and she's shown as a Toggenburg. With *blue* registration papers!

"Experimental" is a goat that is a cross between two purebred/Americans of different breeds, or a purebred/American goat that meet pedigree requirements but not breed standard- a white spotted Togg, for example. Experimental and Recorded Grade are often used as interchangable terms, which they are not.


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## cathleenc (Aug 16, 2007)

thank you Anna! I really appreciate your time and knowledge.

Cathy


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## luvzmybabz (Sep 8, 2008)

OK now that this has come up I have a reg buck and am working on getting " native on apperance" papers for a doeling I purchased, she is hopefully bred now. So her FEMALE offspring will be 50% nubian and have brown papers? ( hopefully I have it so far) so her GGGD ( great great grand does) will be american.

I have a LONG !!!!!!!!!! way to go but her confirmation is great and a roman nose!!! that looks better then my reg buck. So if my son wanted to show the doeling of this pairing next summer it would have to be experimental?

Sorry for hijacking the thread but I am trying to get my goats in a row so to speak.


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## AnnaS (Nov 29, 2003)

luvzmybabz said:


> So her FEMALE offspring will be 50% nubian and have brown papers? ( hopefully I have it so far) so her GGGD ( great great grand does) will be american.
> 
> So if my son wanted to show the doeling of this pairing next summer it would have to be experimental?
> 
> ...


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## catdance62 (Dec 7, 2008)

I have a registered Nubian buck. I have an unregistered Nubian doe (supposedly Nubian, looks like she fits the standards). What will her kids be? And how should I go about getting her and her kids registered in some fashion? I am a new AGDA member.


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## billooo2 (Nov 23, 2004)

catdance62 said:


> I have a registered Nubian buck. I have an unregistered Nubian doe (supposedly Nubian, looks like she fits the standards). What will her kids be? And how should I go about getting her and her kids registered in some fashion? I am a new AGDA member.


As I understand it, you will need to have her registerd as a "recoded grade,' in order for her kids to have any further progress towards becoming "American." If you don't do anything with the mother, then the kids will be starting the process as "Recorded Grades."


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## AnnaS (Nov 29, 2003)

catdance62 said:


> I have a registered Nubian buck. I have an unregistered Nubian doe (supposedly Nubian, looks like she fits the standards). What will her kids be? And how should I go about getting her and her kids registered in some fashion? I am a new AGDA member.


The doe will need Native On Appearance papers (sounds like you know this). You should call up ADGA and ask for Lisa or Penny and ask if there is a special form or statement to get a NOA registration. You'll also need to find another ADGA member who knows the Nubian standard- or can read it out of the guidebook and apply it to your doe. This person will vouch for this doe meeting Nubian standard. Keep in mind that any evidence of Boer or Pygmy blood can and should disqualify your doe from ADGA NOA registration. 

You will get brown papers on your NOA Nubian doe, with her registered name and a bunch of "unknown" on her pedigree. She can be shown in RG/EX ADGA show classes and will have any official milk records filed under "Grade Nubian". As I said in the above post, Recorded Grades can make Top Ten records and win at shows- so get those girls out there!! 

Kids from your reg. Nubian buck and your NOA Recorded Grade Nubian doe (once she has papers) will be Recorded Grade- 50% American Nubian- as long as those kids conform to the Nubian standard. 

One other item, since there may be readers who are not in favor of NOA/NOP- there are some outstanding dairy goats who, for no fault of their own, are without papers. I bought an unpapered Togg doe at a sale barn for $75. I was able to trace back her tattoos & get papers, or she would have been the 2007 National #1 Recorded Grade instead of the 2007 National #1 Togg. I made a lucky guess with the tattoos and found the right breeder. Not eveyone is so lucky.


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## AnnaS (Nov 29, 2003)

Oh, billooo2 is correct. I'm just adding lace to the fray


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## goatkid (Nov 20, 2005)

I bought a La Mancha doeling for $15 when I first got into goats. My friend picked her up at an auction. She know the breeder kept a clean herd. She had just brought the kid to the sale because the dam had gone to a dairy and she didn't have time for alot of bottle babies. My friend wrote a note that the doeling conformed to La Mancha standard and I registered her NOA. She went on to become a champion and also went BUIS in one ring. Her papers say 0% grade La Mancha. Her daughter out of a registered buck is 50% grade La Mancha. These are not recorded as experimentals because they meet breed standard. My Snubian is an experimental.


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## Vicki McGaugh TX Nubians (May 6, 2002)

And experimental is the breeding of an American or Purebred Nubian and an American or Purebred Saanen in the case of your doe. Grade means that there is unknown ancestory in the bloodline.

The above animals are not registered, they are recorded.

American and Purebreds show together and have blue paperwork.

Grade and Experimental show together and have brown paperwork.

I won't help make NOA Nubians because of soo much boer blood in them. They can get their NOP which any doe worth her salt can earn a star. I have helped many times other breeds get their NOA. There aren't a whole lot put through this program like one would think. Vicki


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## dosthouhavemilk (Oct 29, 2004)

The dam doesn't have to be NOA though, correct?
My understanding was, as long as one parent is Purebred/American, and the doeling conforms to the breed standard, the doeling can be recorded as 50%.
I certainly am not interested in wasting money to NOA does that will never be shown, nor put on test, nor appraised.
Or in the cases where the dam cannot be NOAed because they don't conform to any one breed standard (elf ears and roman nose for example).


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## manygoatsnmore (Feb 12, 2005)

NOA does can be shown, put on test, etc - they are considered recorded grades.


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## catdance62 (Dec 7, 2008)

Thanks for all the info, folks!! That is a lot of info, but so valuable to me! I also have a LaMancha buck and 2 LaMancha does that I am very sure will meet standards. I am going to look into all this.
Thanks again!


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## dosthouhavemilk (Oct 29, 2004)

I know they can, and if there were a chance I would do that, then it would make sense to NOA some does, but since the does in question aren't going to be shown, or go on test, or even be linear appraised, it is a waste of money to get a piece of paper that has their name on it, *if* it isn't necesarry to record their doelings out of registered bucks. There is the problem with the dams that aren't NOAs of any breed, but are still beautiful dairy goats. If I could get Elegance NOAed I would. She could only be NOPed.


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## manygoatsnmore (Feb 12, 2005)

Roseanna, I agree, if you aren't going to show, LA, etc, there is no reason to register the dam - the offspring is going to be a 50% recorded grade either way. 

CatDance, your LM does can be NOA or NOP, but the buck, if not from registered parents or of unknown parentage, cannot be registered at all. Just an FYI.


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