# Distillers Grain as a cow feed



## bricned (Jul 3, 2006)

I was wondering if anyone was feeding just distillers grain with free choice hay to their cattle.


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## springvalley (Jun 23, 2009)

My answer to you would be no, no, NO. Why would you want to, it is a byproduct, feed some grain instead. That is half the trouble with cows today, people want to feed stuff that is not natural diet for an animal, that is like saying, yes I can feed my children fast food everyday. But why, wouldn`t you want to feed them good food, and they will do well for you. > Thanks Marc


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## Callieslamb (Feb 27, 2007)

I'd do a search on the nutrient value of the distillers grains and go from there. A lot of dairies here feed it. I don't like the idea of it - especially after reading "Devil in the Milk".


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## tinknal (May 21, 2004)

Distillers has pretty much the same feed value as the grain it is made from minus the energy. It is a good source of protein but has no energy as the starch of the grain is what is converted into sugar (and then into alcohol). I would feed a moderate amount if it was readily available for a good price. I feed bread and hay since I can get bread very cheap.


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## SGFarm (Apr 26, 2008)

Good Day:

I do feed brewer's grain to my beef animals. With free choice hay and beef mineral. they seem to do okay. I only raise two at a time. They enjoy it. I do not let have have it free choice, I set out 1 lbs per animal twice a day. Three years running, on 3 separate pairs of beef. 

Don't know if i would feed it to diary animals though. 

Mike


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## oneokie (Aug 14, 2009)

Contact your extension service for information on feeding distillers grain to your livestock. If over fed it can cause problems.


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## gone-a-milkin (Mar 4, 2007)

Another way it can cause problems is by being a perfect medium for molds, much more-so than whole or cracked grains.

Read up on micotoxins.

http://purduephil.wordpress.com/2008/01/10/mycotoxins-distillers-grains/


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## myersfarm (Dec 24, 2004)

I feed it by the 18 wheeler load.....but I feed it in a ration...mixed with a tub grinder so they can not just pick it out and not eat the straw or hay......I use a nutrionish to figure the mix....My tub grinder has scales and everything is weight no guessing.....the cows and the calfs do great on it.....I also have free choice siliage and reg hay out all the time....btw I have 12 cows giving 80 gallons of milk that I feed the dairy heifers with....last time I figured milk cost it cost 23 cents to make a gallon of milk....of course this would not work in a big dairy...but it works for me...I have also got WDG for free but I had to pay shipping....$35 a ton was the cost


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## oldtimer (Dec 12, 2010)

Q. I was wondering if anyone was feeding just distillers grain with free choice hay to their cattle?

A. I seriously dough it as there is very little â distillers grain â on the market as it is only around 2% of the total by-product of all distillation. . Nor have I ever seen it listed as an ingredient on any feed bag label for cattle, horses, dogs or cat feed.
If you are one of the fortunate ones able to get your hands on it at a reasonable price, then by all means feed it as I have for many many years.
But be absolutely sure it is coming from a manufacturing plant that only manufactures products for humane consumption.

Now if you are asking about corn gluten, a by-product from the distillation of Ethanol, which comprises around 98% of all distillers by-product, then there are thousands of people feeding it to their cattle, horses, dogs and cats.
Yes, I too have feed it, but I learned my lesson.
It is toxic. DONâT feed it! 

Reason: In the distillation of Ethanol sulfur dioxide is added to extract the maximum amount of alcohol.
Sulfur and water makes sulfuric acid. AKA battery acid.
By feeding the Ethanol by-product you are poisoning your animals.
Fact: Ethanol corn gluten is sold as a weed killer!
Fact: To ship Ethanol corn gluten internationally it must be labeled âToxicâ and must be handled and treated as a toxin.

There are hundreds of articles and research papers out there warning of the hazards of feeding Ethanol corn gluten. You might want to do a little research and check the label on your feed stock.
Good luck
OT


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## Lazy J (Jan 2, 2008)

oldtimer said:


> Now if you are asking about corn gluten, a by-product from the distillation of Ethanol, which comprises around 98% of all distillers by-product, then there are thousands of people feeding it to their cattle, horses, dogs and cats.
> Yes, I too have feed it, but I learned my lesson.
> It is toxic. DONâT feed it!


With all due respect Distillers Grains are a very valuable feed stuff in today's livestock feeding industry.

Unfortunately your explanation of DDGS and Gluten is incorrect. Distiller's Dried Grains with Solubles is a co-product of the Dry-Grind ethanol production where as the Corn Gluten Feed/Meal is a co-product of the wet mille corn refining where the main product is corn starch.

While you state there are "hundreds" of articles discussing the evils of feeding Corn Gluten there are also hundreds of articles espounding ther positive benefits of usign DDGS in swine, poultry, and cattle rations.
JIm


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## ksfarmer (Apr 28, 2007)

oldtimer said:


> Now if you are asking about corn gluten, a by-product from the distillation of Ethanol, which comprises around 98% of all distillers by-product, then there are thousands of people feeding it to their cattle, horses, dogs and cats.
> Yes, I too have feed it, but I learned my lesson.
> It is toxic. DONâT feed it!
> 
> ...


oldtimer, gluten is not sold as a weed killer, it is used as a pre-emergent suppressor of weeds. Big Difference.
Corn gluten meal is a powdery byproduct of the corn milling process. Used for years as a supplement in hog feed, this natural protein is very effective for lawns and gardens as a plant food as well as a weed supressor. Corn gluten meal products offer a *non-toxic*, yet effective alternative to traditional, chemical-based weed and feed products for weed control in gardens and lawns, paths and driveways. 
As a plant food, corn gluten has a N-P-K ratio of 9-1-0, or 10% nitrogen by weight. As a weed suppressant, corn gluten acts as a natural "pre-emergent" - it inhibits seed germination by drying out a seed as soon as it cracks open to sprout. These qualities make corn gluten an ideal 'weed n feed' product.
I've used it for years as cattle feed and always had good results.


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## oldtimer (Dec 12, 2010)

FYI:
Feeding Corn Gluten to Beef Cattle1
By Bob Myer and Matt Hersom2, University of Florida, IFAS Extension.

Considerations for Use
A few cautions about feeding CGF. First, the sulfur (S) concentration of CGF is high relative to the animal's requirement. Sulfur dioxide is added during the wet milling process to aid in the extraction of starch. The added S ends up in the steep liquor which is one of the components of CGF. The sulfur concentration in CGF averages around 0.5% (DM basis), with a range of 0.33 to 0.73%. The S requirement for beef cattle is 0.15 to 0.2% total dietary S. The upper safe limit is 0.4% total dietary S (NRC, 2005). Feeding large amounts of CGF with a high S concentration can lead to S toxicity, resulting in reduced feed intake and possibly death. A specific disorder associated with excess S is polioencephalomalacia (PEM or commonly referred to as "brainers"; Niles et al., 2000). This disorder affects the nervous system resulting in blindness, incoordination, and seizures (Gould, 1998). Excess S in the diet can also increase the risk of a copper deficiency. Copper is an essential trace mineral important for growth, immunity, and other metabolic functions (NRC, 2005). The potential risk of high S in the total diet could limit the amount of CGF than can be used in a feeding program. 

Q. Have you ever received an analysis sheet with a truckload delivery that showed the sulfur content?
Q. Does the tag on your feed bag show sulfur content? 
Q. Does the tag on your feed bag say âdo not feed to calves under 350 lbsâ?
Q. Can you tell the difference between wet milled corn gluten that has been dried and dry milled corn gluten?


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## Lazy J (Jan 2, 2008)

oldtimer said:


> FYI:
> Feeding Corn Gluten to Beef Cattle1
> By Bob Myer and Matt Hersom2, University of Florida, IFAS Extension.
> 
> ...


Yep, there is a lo of sulfur in DDGS and Corn Gluten product, no smoking gun there.

Work at the University of Nebraska showed that you can use a signficant portion of a ration without the incidence of Polioencephalitis. I don't remember the maximum nor do I have the actual research papers with me so I won't state a level.

Any supplements or premixes designed for use with DDGS or Gluten will contain higher levels of Thiamin and low levels of Phosphorus to match the nutrient content fournd in those products.

Jim


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## myersfarm (Dec 24, 2004)

yes i have feed both feeds from the Budwizer plant and from the Ethanol plant both if grinded in my mixer feed from a ration...I have been doing this for 8 years...I have a 6 year old and a 5 year old milk cow that have eat this every year.....I am 150 miles from both plants


I do not know free choice way to do it


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## Karen in Alabam (Jul 21, 2010)

I don't know anything about this distilled stuff, but I know that people feed chicken poop to cows and think that is OK too. They also think its perfectly normal to feed them dead dogs and cats and any dead chicken in the poop.

I think that is a little sick and that is why I don't eat Poop burgers anymore


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## myersfarm (Dec 24, 2004)

I know this distilled stuff,.......is made from CORN ...heated corn or barily and the plants sell that to make human feed


lets see how many use karo syrup on pan cakes that come from the same plants....also BEER....SO IF IT IS GOOD ENOUGH FOR ME TO EAT OR DRINK .....I think it is ok for my cows




read this link if your interested http://www.extension.umn.edu/Beef/components/releases/02-28-05-DiCostanzo.htm


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## oldtimer (Dec 12, 2010)

Now if you are feeding a cottonseed by products as a filler to your corn gluten here are two things you need to know.

1.
Oklahoma Cooperative Extension Fact Sheets 
are also available on our website at: 
http://osufacts.okstate.edu
â Gossypol Toxicity in Livestock
Introduction 
Gossypol is a toxic compound found in the cotton plant. It is concentrated in the cottonseed but can also be found in other parts of the cotton plant such as hulls, leaves, and stems. Gossypol exists in two forms: free and bound. The free form is toxic, whereas gossypol that binds to proteins is in the âboundâ or non-toxic form.
Why is this important? 
The amount of free gossypol in the cottonseed can be quite variable. Many factors influence gossypol content such as: specie of cotton plant, climatic conditions, soil conditions, fertilizer, etc. This makes it impossible to know how much gossypol the cottonseed contains without having it tested. â
Source: http://www.cottonseed.com/publications/feedproductsguide.asp

2. Cottonseed byproducts can have a sulfur content as high as .44 and must be taken into consideration when mixing of buying feed.
OT


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## TennesseeMama23 (May 10, 2006)

We do by the tanker truckload also. 2-3 full trailer truckloads gets put out here per day. They also get hay free choice.


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## Lazy J (Jan 2, 2008)

Oldtimer:

It is obvious that you don't know anything about feeding of co-products to livestock. Why don't you stop the internet suring for negatives about co-proudct use in feeds and leave nutrition to those that have the proper training and understand of livestock nutrition?

You should look at the work by Klophenstein et al. at Nebraska, Noll and Shurson at Minnesota, and Tokach et al. and Droulliard and colleagues at Kansas State for practical information about using DDGS in livestock feeding.

Jim


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## myersfarm (Dec 24, 2004)

what she said


I have also heard of people saying do not feed..this... and you go to there place and thats what they are feeding.....why if there is no demand the price is cheaper...if the product is cheaper they make more money......I have my cows named....I care for my cows as much as anybody....and will only feed what works for both of us


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## springvalley (Jun 23, 2009)

Well I may know very little about much of anything, but I also know my cows do very well on hay and the grain I grow on my farm. My neighbor that has a larger dairy than I , he buys the distillers grain and feeds his cows, he has alot more trouble with his cows than I do, any coralation? I have no idea, I know just because you can feed animals certain things doesn`t mean you should. Reason in point, mad cow, comes from feeding cattle by products back to cattle, yes you can feed them that, but you shouldn`t. End of my rant, > Thanks marc


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## oldtimer (Dec 12, 2010)

Hey gang lets not make this personal! 
If you don&#8217;t like the message, shoot down the message, not the messenger.

FYI 
I have absolutely nothing against feeding byproduct, as long as they don&#8217;t do more harm then good.
All I am doing is passing on information to you, what you do with it is strictly up to you.
Just be careful you don&#8217;t end up going down the same road as Eastern Livestock LLC because of your poor judgment.


Have a nice day
OT


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## Lazy J (Jan 2, 2008)

oldtimer said:


> FYI
> I have absolutely nothing against feeding byproduct, as long as they donât do more harm then good.


I have no problem with information sharing, that is the best part about these bulletin boards. However, picking a chossing bits and pieces of article does not do justice to any topic. Were one to use the quotes you chose to share you would not use any co-products becasue of fear of hurting your animal when that is not the true case.

Much research has been completed in the past 15 years on the use of DDGS in livestock rations to help producers take advantage of this co-product. Regardless of your view on Ethanol, it is here to stary for the foreseeable future so we need to take advantage of the opportunity the DDGS gives us. 

For example with the use of 600 lb DDGS in grow-finish swine rations a producer can save about $6/pig on feed costs compared to a corn-soybean meal ration. That is not chump change.

Jim


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## myersfarm (Dec 24, 2004)

oldtimer stated Just be careful you don&#8217;t end up going down the same road as Eastern Livestock LLC because of your poor judgment



as if that had something to do with feeding by products....that had more to do with over extenting your money...and keep writing checks ...that company bought cows and then resold them as fast as they could to feed lots........Who knows what they feed the cows when they had them


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## oldtimer (Dec 12, 2010)

Based on the link provided by Myersfarm ( http://www.extension.umn.edu/Beef/components/releases/02-28-05-DiCostanzo.htm ) 
I quote:
&#8220;A survey of distillers&#8217; grains from several Minnesota and South Dakota plants revealed that average concentrations of phosphorus and sulfur were 0.89% and 0.47%, respectively, but fluctuations in content ranged from 0.68% to 1.09% and 0.12% to 0.82%, for phosphorus and sulfur, respectively. Requirements for S in diets of growing cattle are 0.15% of the diet dry matter (0.033 lb/day when cattle consume 22 lb dry matter/day). The maximum tolerable concentration of sulfur in the diet is 0.40% (0.088 lb/day). A diet containing 15% distillers&#8217; grains (dry matter basis) with 0.82% sulfur would provide 0.027 lb sulfur/day or 82% of the sulfur requirement.&#8221;

Now can anyone tell me how to mix/grind 2,000 lbs of feed for my cattle?
On hand I have 
16 ton of corn gluten, 
200 1,000 lb round bales, 
10 50 lb bag of crenulated minerals and 
10 ton of cottonseed hulls for filler.
None of which had an analysis report delivered with it except the minerals.

Q. How many pounds of grain will a cow receive if she consumes 22 lb dry matter/day ?
Good luck

OT


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## myersfarm (Dec 24, 2004)

oldtimer those are your ingrents THESE are mine in %







WhtStrw	16.00 %
ModDist	56.00 %
SBHulls	26.90 %
Corn 0000
DG435SRU	1.10





Sum of % Fed =	100.00
Ration Cost, $/Ton =	134.39
%DM =	66.73
%Prot =	17.15
%Ca =	0.84
%P =	0.48
% Fat =	5.36
NE(m) =	83.85
NE(g) =	49.88
% Roughage =	

Ration Markup, $/Ton =	
CNES, % Efficiency =	100
Cattle Wt. @ Phase Start =	780
Cattle Wt @ Phase End =	900
DM Intake, lb/hd/d =	19.90

Days =	48
As Fed Intake, lb/hd/d =	29.82
DM Intake, % BW =	2.37
As Fed Intake, % BW =	3.55
ADG =	2.52
Dry F/G =	7.88
Feed Cost/Cwt Gain =	79.40
Total Cost/Cwt Gain =	79.40


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## myersfarm (Dec 24, 2004)

oldtimer you have to give me the PROTIEN CONTENT TESTED ON EACH ITEM FOR ME TO FIGURE it I have a program that will figure everything......also need to know what SIZE COW... and what you want her to do...it need to know if steer or heifer.....


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## oldtimer (Dec 12, 2010)

Myersfarm wrote:


> company bought cows and then resold them as fast as they could to feed lots.....&#8230;


Wrong! There is and never was profit in that after you add trucking cost.



> Who knows what they feed the cows when they had them


FWIW IMO,
Eastern didn&#8217;t feed them. Feed lots did! And the feed lots got paid first upon the sale of the cattle to the packers, which is why they were not victims of bad checks, then Eastern got what was left.
What bankrupted Eastern was low and slow weight gain and mortality rates.

But that&#8217;s another story for another day.

OT


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## myersfarm (Dec 24, 2004)

oldtimer just because you believe it does not make it ture.....right off the Eastern HOME PAGE

EASTERN LIVESTOCK CO., LLC is one of the largest cattle brokerage companies in the United States. We take great pride and pleasure in satisfying the needs of our ever growing customer base.

Through our network of experienced representatives we have the ability to meet the specific needs of each and every customer and their operation, however big or small.

If you are looking to purchase or sell feeder or replacement cattle, Eastern Livestock. Co., LLC should be the first name that comes to mind. We only ask for the opportunity to be of service to you.



CATTLE BROKERAGE COMPANY if they have cattle to sell and will buy then what are they


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## myersfarm (Dec 24, 2004)

oldtimer from BLOOMBERG SO IF THEY ARE WRONG I AM WRONG

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2010-12-13/cattlemen-look-for-lessons-in-130-million-swindle.html



Eastern made money mainly by buying calves throughout the South and selling them to feed lots in big cattle states, including Texas and Oklahoma, where they were fattened for slaughter. Federal regulations require such companies to have sufficient bond to cover two days of business activity, although the bond can be less if the two-day amount is more than $75,000.


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## myersfarm (Dec 24, 2004)

oldtimer thats it we can go over and over with this and I do WORK and really just do not have time for this.........I find out things before I open my computer....you might just do a little more research before typing


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## oldtimer (Dec 12, 2010)

.Myersfarm,

Sorry to hear you are baling out on me. I was truly hoping you would be the first person who could educate me on the proper mixing of corn gluten in feed stuff as I donât have a laboratory, lab technician, the equipment or a computer program to do it myself.
Should you find time, here are the stats you asked for.

Re:


> also need to know what SIZE COW... and what you want her to do...it need to know if steer or heifer.....


I am a 100 cow calf operation and want my cows to maintain a healthy condition, to breed, put a healthy calf on the ground and breed back in a timely fashion year after year. 

Cow size is from first time heifers at 8oo lbs and up and older cows at around 1,000 lbs. and the bulls can reach 2,000 lbs.
There are also calves in the herd ranging from new born to 800 lbs and they are steers, heifers and bulls.
Many of the cows are bred back or soon will be and all my cattle run together except my weaned calves which are steers and heifers.

Now keep in mind, two of the main ingredients I listed (cottonseed hulls and corn gluten ) are the same ingredients my local co-op uses in their bagged feed and it carries a warning not to feed to calves under 350 lbs. Q. Do you think that would also include unborn calves?

I intend to use this feed stock in my supplemental feeding program along with pasturing during the winter and during times of drought.
As my mixer is rated for 2,000 I would like to mix/grind in 2,000 lb batches.
If you need any further information, please feel free to ask.
Thanks in advance
OT


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## myersfarm (Dec 24, 2004)

Just do not think that will work only 2000 lbs and just how much does each bale of hay weight...unless you have a way of only putting in half a bale of hay ...will see what I can do


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## oldtimer (Dec 12, 2010)

Re:


> Just do not think that will work only 2000 lbs and just how much does each bale of hay weight...unless you have a way of only putting in half a bale of hay ...will see what I can do


A bale is around 1,000 lbs
I can put in a partial bale but I prefer to use the cottonseed hulls for any partial bale needed as the herd can have free choice hay if/as needed.
You can give it to me in lbs if you like as my grinder has a scale.
Thanks again
OT


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## myersfarm (Dec 24, 2004)

these are the ingrents I can make ration from.....so what kind of hay... fescue ..bermuda...what kind of corn gluten.. dryed to what % of moister......what kind of cotton seed hull...whole or cracked




Corn
HMCorn
EarCrn
Milo
Wheat
Oats
GrCorn


SBM
CSM

CSHulls
SBHulls
CrnGltn
HFP
WhlCtsd
DDGS
HomFd
AlfHay
BmdHay
BrmHay
FesHay
OatHay
WhtHay
WhtStrw
CStlks
PrrHay

AHaylge
CSilage
Whtlage
TSilage
WetBrwr
WetGltn
ModDist
WetDist
Fescue
Dist50:50
Vgtn35S
FdltMnRu
Mnrl3.5
GroGrMx
FinGrMx
CrntGrMx
NewGrMx
Mix30
8020.00 

Vgrtn35S
FrgPro
Cttnmts
CDS
Vgt412SR
CG424SR
DG435SRU


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## oldtimer (Dec 12, 2010)

Re:


> Corn, what kind of corn gluten..


I get both wet and dry corn gluten and some times what they call damaged goods which can be either wet or dry. Some loads appear to be a mix of both wet and dry.
Re:


> % of moister...&#8230;


Again, upon delivery no analysis sheet is given so I can only tell you this:
What I call &#8220;dry&#8221; stands up like a load of dirt. (About a 6 foot slump )
What I call &#8220;wet&#8221; runs all over the place and must be ----ed up with bales of hay to keep it on the pad. About a 1 foot slump without the bales.
The mixed loads can be any where in between.
Re:


> so what kind of hay... fescue ..bermuda&#8230;


A. Fescue
Call it of average in quality and nutrition as it does a fine job when I am not forced into supplemental feeding.

The cotton seed hulls are &#8220; CSH=cottonseed hulls&#8221; I assume and cost me nothing except for trucking.

I also have ground corn available but prefer not to use it due to the high cost. ($260 per ton)
Corn gluten runs me from $65 a ton when no one wants it to $165 per ton depending on market demands.
But when it is $65 I don&#8217;t t really need it except when there is no grass and my hay supply is low. So if you are figuring cost, call it $165 per ton.

Please use only those 3 products, ( corn gluten, cotton seed hulls and fescue hay ) and I will add the ground corn as I feel it is necessary.
Thanks again
OT


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## myersfarm (Dec 24, 2004)

could not get it to work without some soybean hulls...this is the dry distillers....yur ration cost WILL BE DIFFERENT those are old prices...this is only for the small calfs feeding them 9 pounds a day.......do not know why you would want to feed cows and thing except good hay....but thats up to you



hope this helps ready for questions I am sure you have some..


Ingred. <----------------------------% Fed (As Fed Basis)------------------------------->
Name	450-473
CSHulls	12.00
FesHay	
WhtStrw	
SBHulls	25.00
ModDist	61.00
Corn	
MFdltPrmxR	1.00
Limest	1.00


Sum of % Fed =	100.00
Ration Cost, $/Ton =	78.38
%DM =	65.13
%Prot =	18.50
%Ca =	0.89
%P =	0.54
% ADF =	35.49
NE(m) =	87.59
NE(g) =	54.07
% Roughage =	97.02

Ration Markup, $/Ton =	
CNES, % Efficiency =	100
Cattle Wt. @ Phase Start =	450
Cattle Wt @ Phase End =	473
DM Intake, lb/hd/d =	9.10

Days =	14
As Fed Intake, lb/hd/d =	13.97
DM Intake, % BW =	1.97
As Fed Intake, % BW =	3.03
ADG =	1.60
Dry F/G =	5.68
Feed Cost/Cwt Gain =	34.21
Total Cost/Cwt Gain =	34.21


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## oldtimer (Dec 12, 2010)

FYI:
Corn Gluten Feed for Beef Cattle
Virginia Tech


> There are a few cautions that need to be considered in feeding corn gluten feed. Its sulfur content is high due to the added sulfur of the wet milling process and exceeds beef cattle&#8217;s requirement. Feeding corn gluten in high levels or free choice can potentially negatively affect the nervous system and increase the risk of copper deficiency. Phosphorous concentration also far exceeds cattle&#8217;s requirement. The low concentration of calcium further compounds the issue. When feeding gluten feed over 1% of body weight or for an extended period of time, free-choice mineral mixes should be high in calcium and low in phosphorous.


Source: http://pubs.ext.vt.edu/news/livestock/2009/10/LU_10_01_09-04.html

Fact: &#8220;negatively affect the nervous system&#8221; means that every function a cow performs is negatively affected. That includes, but is not limited to, the immune system and the reproductive system.
Now where does a new born get it&#8217;s immunity?

Here is another site on Gossypol you might want to read.
http://www.merckvetmanual.com/mvm/index.jsp?cfile=htm/bc/211200.htm

Also, although I can&#8217;t find the article on it, it has been stated in the press a few months ago that some feedlot operations were mixing and feeding corn gluten as high as 40%.
And they wonder why their mortality rate is so high and why they must use antibiotic on a daily basis?

Think about it!!
You have mommas fed a toxin while settled and you get a calf with a compromised immune system.
He is fed more toxins while still on the farm till sale, if he lives that long.
He then goes into a feedlot with other animals who have who know what and is feed a massive dose of more toxin.
Go figure!!
IMO, those producing and/or selling of corn gluten who produce it or sell it without the proper documentation of analysis for each batch and/or without a firm proven scientific feeding program instruction sheet for all classes of cattle should be charged with animal cruelty.
As far as I know it is against the law to poison any animal.
OT


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## myersfarm (Dec 24, 2004)

can you read my chart.?????????

the feed daily is 9.1 pounds the mix is only 61 % ddg.....and the calf weights 450 to 473...and these are the proper mineral mixes MFdltPrmxR 1.00
Limest 1.00
...NOW I am DONE WITH YOU....PLEASE DO NOT POST ON MY POST.


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## Lazy J (Jan 2, 2008)

Give it a rest Old Timer! 

You have proven that you have a vendetta against the use of corn co-products in livestock feed. We get that!

Now stop cherry picking bits and pieces of articles that fit your view of them.

Jim


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## Lazy J (Jan 2, 2008)

Ok Old Timer, two can play the "check out this link" game.

Here is the definitive clearinghouse of DDGS and corn co-product information. I have shared the stage with Dr. Shurson on several occasions, he knows his stuff.

Minnestoa DDGS Site


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## oldtimer (Dec 12, 2010)

> The rule reads 12:53:01:18 Maximum sulfur percentage required on label of
> distillers products and corn gluten feed. The label of distillers products and corn
> gluten feed, as defined in the Official Publication of the Association of American
> Feed Control Officials Incorporated, 2003 Edition, pages 244-245 and 263 must
> ...


Source: Provided by Lazy J

You see my friend you have proven nothing as your very own souse is saying exactly what I am saying.
FACT! Corn gluten is TOXIC! CASE CLOSED!
Now the question is: How do you feed it safely?

I support it&#8217;s social, nutritional and economical value but that is not the issue here, the issue is the safety of my animal! And I will not feed it untill all my question are answered to my satisfaction.
Now are there any other takes who want to attempt to answer my questions that the so called experts in corn gluten have not?
Now,
Q. If I want to grind just hay and corn gluten only as a supplemental feed stock what is the safe ratio, or lb to lb mix that I can safely feed? Forget about the nutrition value as I have my own lab, lab tech and equipment.
Please quote your source.
Now that shouldn&#8217;t be all that hard to answer.
OT

PS. I don&#8217;t respond to or judge people for their personal attacks----------------------- I leave that to the other members and viewers.
I&#8217;m sure your performance on this stage would make Dr. Shurson proud to be associated with you. 
Have a nice night!


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## Lazy J (Jan 2, 2008)

oldtimer said:


> Source: Provided by Lazy J
> 
> You see my friend you have proven nothing as your very own souse is saying exactly what I am saying.
> FACT! Corn gluten is TOXIC! CASE CLOSED!


How do you get "Toxic" from the quote you provided. I'm done, I leave you to your axe grinding. I will now spend some time helping my producers save money by using DDGS in their rations.


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## oldtimer (Dec 12, 2010)

FYI,


> British sugar refiner Tate & Lyle PLC says it won't restart construction of an ethanol plant in Fort Dodge, Iowa in the foreseeable future.
> Tate & Lyle, which also produces bulk ingredients, said Thursday that it had written off a loss of 217 million pounds ($316 million) on the project.
> Work on the plant has been suspended since March of last year.
> Tate & Lyle says its decision was based on the depressed and volatile outlook for ethanol and uncertain conditions in industrial starch and corn gluten feed markets.


Source: http://www.businessweek.com/ap/financialnews/D9FV4EC81.htm
Geee? I wonder exactly what those &#8220;uncertain conditions&#8221; are that would cause them to write off $316 mill? Anyone care to venture a guess?
OT

FYI:


> Hansen, who is researching DDGS in cattle diets, says they already comprise about 20 to 30 percent of many feedlot cattle diets. Last year, when corn prices were increasing and DDGS prices were still low, that percentage went up to as much as 40 percent or more, she said. Producers don't use more of this low-cost supplement due to its sulfur content. Too much sulfur in a bovine diet can be toxic.
> 
> "The problem in cattle is that DDGS have a lot of sulfur in them because ethanol producers use sulfuric acid in processing ethanol," she said. "We are looking into how much we can get into the diet without running into problems."


Source: Iowa State university
http://www.news.iastate.edu/news/2010/jan/PersiaHansen

As I said before, is it no wonder that they have to feed antibiotic like I eat M & Ms and ( have ) a mortality rate that would knock your socks off.
I wonder how many of all those sick and dead animal were Eastern Livestock LLC animals?? 
OT

Well folks , I made my case.
Now do you/ would you feel safe in feeding corn gluten?
OT


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## Lazy J (Jan 2, 2008)

Summary: Heifer body conditions score and calf birth weights were similar for both treatments and there
were no differences in calving ease of calf vigor scores. These results suggest that in limit fed situations
DDGS and SBH can both be supplemented at 40% of the ration with no negative affects on cow
performance, calf birth weight, or calving difficulty.


Summary: Small and inconsistent differences in performance and the lack of differences in body condition
between treatments suggest that DDGS can replace an oilseed meal in protein supplements without affecting
animal performance. Supplementing DDGS as a sole protein source for cows consuming poor-quality
forage is a viable management alternative for producers.

Summary: In both trials there were no differences in cow ADG, milk production or calf ADG when using
CGF or DDGS. Limit-feeding lactating, beef cows CGF and DDGS is an alternative to feeding full-feed
hay rations. Limit-feeding CGF and DDGS with either limit-fed ground corn stalks or limit-fed corn
shucklage resulted in acceptable performance and lactation.

Implications
Using distillers byproducts can stretch corn stalk grazing days. This may be a more economical method of feeding cows in the early winter period. This project successfully demonstrated that distillers can be used to supplement grazing cows to meet their protein and energy needs.

In the current study, utilizing DDG
as a source of protein and energy in heifer development
diets to promote moderate gains did not influence age
at puberty but enhanced AI conception and pregnancy
rates compared with an isocaloric supplement.

Implications
Corn gluten feed and dried distillers grains seem to
be effective energy and protein sources in high-grain
diets limit-fed to heifers.

The results of our study showed that coproducts
of ethanol production, of either corn
or grain sorghum origin, can be used in a
management system for growing cattle grazing
on medium- to low-quality forage.


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## oldtimer (Dec 12, 2010)

J,
It&#8217;s time to call it a day!
Go read &#8220;How to make a small fortune in cattle!&#8221; and cheer up!
OT


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## myersfarm (Dec 24, 2004)

read the whole report they stoped that one but opened 2 others

Blog: Green Fields: Agriculture and Alternative Energy Tate & Lyle scraps Fort Dodge ethanol plant
Blog post by Dan Piller â¢ [email protected] â¢ May 27, 2010

Comments (8) Recommend (0) Print This Post 

British grain processor Tate & Lyle has scrapped plans to complete its 100 million gallon ethanol production plant at Fort Dodge.

The plant has sat half-completed since Tate & Lyle suspended construction last year amidst a downturn in the ethanol business. Tate & Lyle hasnât said what it will do with the uncompleted facility or the land.

The plant is located west of Fort Dodge along Iowa Highway 7. It sits directly west of the Valero Energy ethanol plant.

âThe continued depressed and volatile outlook for ethanol, and uncertain conditions in industrial starch and corn gluten feed markets, do not provide any basis to complete and commission the plant,â Tate & Lyle said in a statement.

The company made the announcement while reporting a 77 percent drop in net income for its latest fiscal year.

While Tate & Lyle stopped work on its plant last year two other facilities, in New Hampton and Grand Junction, were opened in 2009. The ethanol industry pulled out of a slump in the first half of last year and generally reported profits in the latter part of last year.

Ethanol margins have narrowed again in recent weeks due to a slump in overall demand for gasoline.

A more significant problem is the so-called âblend wallâ as ethanol use nationwide reaches its saturation point. At present no more than 10 percent ethanol can be blended into unleaded gasoline. With gasoline usage estimated at 130 billion gallons this year and ethanol production expected to top 12 billion, the industry is nearing its capacity.

Ethanol makers have petitioned the Environmental Protection Agency to raise the blend limit to 15 percent, which would add another potential 7 billion gallons of demand in the U.S. market. The EPA is expected to decide by August, although it could limit the expanded blend to newer model vehicles.


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