# Buy it cheap & stack it deep!



## biggkidd (Aug 16, 2012)

But how much ammo does one really need? That's the question in my mind. Just for hunting I might use 5 rifle shells a year. One to make sure the rifle is still in zero and 1-4 for 1-4 deer / bear. I don't really hunt anything else. Other than the occasional predator after my animals. So that leaves the question of target shooting. Hey I'm from the south we like to plink at cans etc.. Then there's what if SHTF? Just how many gun fights do you expect to survive? That's if you were to ever even get in the first one. I see and hear many times 10,000 rounds for each weapon. But really who is going to need that much ammo and for what? Other than just plain fun shooting. Are you really going to do any fun shooting if SHTF? I mean come on.

So looking for some realistic numbers here. Now I admit maybe there is some reason I haven't thought of to keep huge numbers of ammo. Other than it never seems to be on the shelf when you want to buy it. So people help me out here with some real world numbers and the reasons why.

Thanks
Larry


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## simi-steading (Sep 27, 2012)

The way I look at it is, ammo is probably going to be cheaper today than it will be tomorrow... I buy when the prices are right. A guy never can have too much if he likes to do a lot of shooting..


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## Roadking (Oct 8, 2009)

Nothing is getting cheaper...I still have 50 round boxes of 22LR that are stamped $0.49...today, when and if you find them, they range from $2.99 to $9.99 for 50 rounds.
Hence, your title is correct..."buy cheap"...especially if you have kiddos that like competition shooting.
Aside from that, I think ammo, common calibers, may be a better investment against inflation than silver...see above for reason.

Matt


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## littlejoe (Jan 17, 2007)

If the SHTF I probably wouldn't need much in a defensive situation. Hope it never comes to that. I've got more than I need, but I look at it as an investment as well as a bartering item...same as firearms, and the value keeps growing IMO.


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## Malamute (Sep 15, 2011)

biggkidd said:


> A) But how much ammo does one really need?
> 
> 
> B)Then there's what if SHTF? Just how many gun fights do you expect to survive?
> ...



A) Nobody really knows. It depends on how much shooting you may do. 5 a year may be a realistic number for some people and places, it may be way low for others. I shoot skunks on sight, I don't care how many I see, I'll spend the rounds required to shoot them. Same for rattlesnakes. I want enough ammo around I don't have to worry about what I use it for or when. 

B) Well, I also hope to never get in a gunfight, but I plan to survive them all, and don't plan to be the guy that runs out of ammo when its least convenient. If I could afford 10k, I'd certainly have it around. As you said, one never knows when it will get hard to come by, and having it around doesn't cost after its bought. I also recall that 8 years ago, 5.56 surplus was $140-$175/1000, and 308 surplus was $140/1000. It would have been a simple good investment to buy quantities back then. What it costs today may seem like a screaming deal in a few years, who knows. A bad turn of events could see you burning up a lot of ammo very quickly. If a small amount is good for you, I'm OK with that. As it is, I was buying a brick of 22's every couple months for a while. I haven't needed to buy any for a couple years when everyone else has been having problems and even selling guns because they didnt have any and couldn't find it for sale. If people wait until its expensive and hard to get, they aren't "preparing" or being prepared. 

SHTF is a very nebulous term. It seems to mean certain things to many people. I find most of them sound more like fantasy than anything I'd realistically expect, but even in my fairly conservative use of the word, there isn't a bad reason to have ammo around. I just like to shoot!


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## biggkidd (Aug 16, 2012)

Ha I opened up a "new" brick earlier this year that has a $4.89 price tag from a LGS. So it might just be a few years old. lol 

I posted this question in a few different forums and the same basic answer was replied from all. Get much as you can!!!

In reality I me myself think 1000 rds per working simi auto is plenty to keep on hand. If my pockets were deeper maybe more. I've seen a case of ammo vanish in a good day of fun shooting too.

Thanks
Larry


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## GREENCOUNTYPETE (Jul 25, 2006)

big kid the question is do you have kids that will be old enough to shoot any time soon or are they already past that.

because when you have a few kids shooting you just say goodbye to a brick the day you open it.

so 1k won't last long


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## hawgsquatch (May 11, 2014)

The average modern combat soldier carries between two and five hundred rounds as a battle compliment. And the average casualty will have eighty percent of those rounds on him when he is collected by medical or graves. Most gunfights last less than twenty seconds and less than a dozen rounds are expended in civilian conflicts. I still have a bunch saved up? Never can tell...........


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## biggkidd (Aug 16, 2012)

GREENCOUNTYPETE said:


> big kid the question is do you have kids that will be old enough to shoot any time soon or are they already past that.
> 
> because when you have a few kids shooting you just say goodbye to a brick the day you open it.
> 
> so 1k won't last long


 
I've got a 9 & 14 year old daughters living here. They aren't quite as shoot happy as boys. More worried about boys. LOL 

Humm okay need more especially .22! Thanks
Wow a brick of .22 for $80 maybe not. Last bricks I bought were under $15. Only have a couple left.

Larry


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## GREENCOUNTYPETE (Jul 25, 2006)

you tell them the way to get the good boys is to go out shoot them at the range , if they can take that and still want a date , they might be all right , with your approval of course 

some of the happiest couples i know are the ones who go in the woods together hunting and no one sits home 

my wife hasn't found interest in the woods for hunting but she will come to the range 

but she had never even touched a gun till we met 


we talk about how shooting sports is a life long sport that you can enjoy with your parents and grand parents and no just have them be spectators 

you just need to find your game , for some it is trap , skeet , sporting clays for others it is IDPA , silhouettes , bowling pins , 3 gun ,cowboy action , bench rest , long range black powder cartridge ,3 position air rifle , archery , the list keeps going 

I am working on putting together more indoor 3 position air rifle events for our 4H for this year , I think we have approval for the use of a larger heated building and we are setting dates soon


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## GREENCOUNTYPETE (Jul 25, 2006)

biggkidd said:


> I've got a 9 & 14 year old daughters living here. They aren't quite as shoot happy as boys. More worried about boys. LOL
> 
> Humm okay need more especially .22! Thanks
> Wow a brick of .22 for $80 maybe not. Last bricks I bought were under $15. Only have a couple left.
> ...


not sure how often you step in a wall mart but every time my foot enters their building I go and check if they have 22 often now you have to ask as they keep it under the counter out of sight , been about 5 cents around I scored a 1000 round box of Winchester m-22 for 50 dollars before any one thinks I am hording I broke it up int 100 round bags for my friends , family and neighbor because the last time I got any before that in august was march


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## unioncreek (Jun 18, 2002)

Most recommend at least 2K rounds per firearm at a minimum. I have approximately 10K 22LR that I bought over the years, for less than $8/brick. Some as old as 1984 and they are shooting good. I would seriously look at reloading and buying powder, primers and bullets. They will be your best trading item if SHTF.

I use IMR 4895 which can be used in both my .308 and 5.56. And Unique which can be used in my 9mm, shotgun and 308 (reduced loads).

Bob


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## paradox (Nov 19, 2012)

We shoot alot. Really, alot. You can call it fun shooting if you want, I call it training. Different guns, different scenarios, distance shooting from a rest, close range draw and shooting from crouch, sitting, standing, walking, you name it. Yeah we make it little games to keep it fun, but it is still a learning situation. 

In a SHTF scenario obviously you go into conserve mode and slow down, but I don't think we would quit. We would still train, just perhaps with silenced weapons. But before that happens, me, DH, and the kiddos need lots of rounds. That is probably where those higher numbers come from. People train because in a stress situation you don't rise to the level of your expectations - you fall to the level of your training. 

Standing still with gun out and ready and putting a nice little group in your target is one thing. And for a lot of folks, that is all the training they ever do. They pat themselves on the back and assume they will be awesome if the need ever arises. But drawing while heading for cover and shooting from an awkward crouch is entirely different. If I foul my draw or miss my target, it could literally be deadly. When the bad guy is bearing down on you is not the time to forget to flip the safety or learn how to deal with a stovepipe. It needs to be automatic, muscle memory, something you do without having to think - and that only comes with repetition.


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## unioncreek (Jun 18, 2002)

We shoot a lot too. Generally once a month we get the family together and shoot. We'll go through 800 - 1000 rounds of 9mm and around 500 5.56. Shotgun is around four or five boxes. We don't shoot targets very often. We shoot steel targets to make it fun. If you get a chance get on YouTube and look up Pat Mac, he's former Special Forces and he has some good exercises he runs through. He seems a little crazy, but that's what it takes sometimes.

My BIL's motto is "Train like you fight".

Bob


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## Nimrod (Jun 8, 2010)

What about when ammo is impossible to get? There are many reasons ammo could be hard to get. Right now it's because folks are buying it as fast as the manufacturers can make it. There is also the probability that the gooberment is buying up a bunch so the ammo and components are in short supply.

How about the scenario where the anti-gunners tax it to the point where the average guy can't afford it. They have also floated the idea of primers that die after a few years. Gun control by the backdoor.

If TSHTF you won't be able to get any. The whole economy will shut down.


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## unioncreek (Jun 18, 2002)

That's why you buy the powder and primers now. It will last 20 years if stored right. All ammo, but 22LR is readily available in my area and has been four the last year. I would rather be prepared and buy everything I need now and not wait till it's unavailable. 

Would you not prepare with food stores either?

If you aren't prepared you deserve what comes.

Bob


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## biggkidd (Aug 16, 2012)

Some real info here thank you all. We haven't hardly been shooting at all due to ammo prices and limited quantities available locally. With everything going on in the world right now and since it looks like that time might be getting closer faster than we all would like. I decided to forgo some other plans and get a box or two just to have on hand. Because if SHTF ammo is going to be unavailable. .

Larry


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## Dutch 106 (Feb 12, 2008)

Ok its starting to look suspicious to me but I havn't seen any 22lr on a shelf in 3 years. just how much hording is going on I know the democrate vertion of presidense (that was spelled that way on purpose for a change) but 3 years really yes I know I can buy elly target for 9.99 a box but 4 years go I was buying all I wanted for less than $15 for 500.
Dutch


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## Malamute (Sep 15, 2011)

Roadking said:


> Nothing is getting cheaper...I still have 50 round boxes of 22LR that are stamped $0.49...*today, when and if you find them, they range from $2.99 to $9.99 for 50 rounds.
> *


 That's scalper prices. The factories haven't raised their prices by much. Wal mart hasn't raised their prices much the past couple years. Some local shops haven't unless their regular suppliers cant deliver and they find it elsewhere for higher prices. The majority of price increases are in the supply chain, not from the factories. They are making the stuff in enormous quantities (what was CCI making, 2 million or so per day?), but people buy it as fast as its put on the shelf, including all the people that used to only buy ammo when they wanted to go shoot, not to mention all the new gun owners since the last election or two.

Some people buy all they can so it isn't available to most people, then resell it for outrageous prices. That's likely as much of the problem as anything.

I don't buy into the .gov buying it up so people cant get it. 

The primers with expiration dates was a rumor from the 80's, it led to The Great Primer Famine of the 80's (or was that the early 90's?) From those in the industry, its considered pretty impractical. 

Someone said primers will last 20 years. You must not be very old. I have primers I've had longer than that as well as ammo I loaded longer ago than that* and have zero apprehension of them and have had zero problems, nor have I heard of any problems unless they were kept in atrocious conditions.

*Heck, I have ammo I carry in grizzly country I loaded at least 20 years ago.


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## Glade Runner (Aug 1, 2013)

For minimum quantities I keep 10,000 rounds of .22, 6,000 rounds per battle rifle, 1,000 rounds per hunting rifle, 2,000 rounds per combat pistol, 1,000 rounds per utility pistol, 500 rounds buckshot and slugs per gauge, 500 rounds of bird shot in three sizes per gauge. It takes up considerable space and is way heavy.


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## Malamute (Sep 15, 2011)

Glade Runner said:


> .... It takes up considerable space and is way heavy.


 I often laugh at some of the breathless comments in news reports. "Blah, blah, blah, loser guy had HUNDREDS (or even THOUSANDS!!!OMG!!!) of rounds of ammo in their apartment!!!!!" Uh, ok, so what? Are they going to magically transport it to the crime scene once theyre out committing murder and mayhem? The guy that jumped the fence at the white house was a similar report. "He had 800!!! rounds of ammo in his car!!!!". Right. And no guns. Its particularly dangerous when theres no guns, and,...its a long ways from where they are committing their crime. I guess he was supposed to also telepathically transport that ammo to himself, along with the non existent gun(s).

I really think the news people have zero comprehension of how heavy ammo is. Any serious amount of centerfire ammo is way heavy. The supposedly massive quantities they sometimes have aren't very dangerous when it sits at home. The nut jobs would need a couple husky friends just to pack ammo along, or use their tactical wheelbarrow. They rarely last long enough to use much ammo in any event.

Rant over. :happy2:


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## Glade Runner (Aug 1, 2013)

Oh wow! I can see myself now, loping down the road with 420 pounds of 7.62 X 51 in the old tactical wheel barrow with the MBR strapped to the top. Real high speed, stealthy operation.


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## biggkidd (Aug 16, 2012)

Glade Runner said:


> For minimum quantities I keep 10,000 rounds of .22, 6,000 rounds per battle rifle, 1,000 rounds per hunting rifle, 2,000 rounds per combat pistol, 1,000 rounds per utility pistol, 500 rounds buckshot and slugs per gauge, 500 rounds of bird shot in three sizes per gauge. It takes up considerable space and is way heavy.


 Now that's a pile of ammo! :nanner:


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## Malamute (Sep 15, 2011)

Glade Runner said:


> Oh wow! I can see myself now, loping down the road with 420 pounds of 7.62 X 51 in the old tactical wheel barrow with the MBR strapped to the top. *Real high speed, stealthy operation*.


 Just be sure to keep that axle oiled!


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## Glade Runner (Aug 1, 2013)

biggkidd said:


> Now that's a pile of ammo! :nanner:


It is! That's what paranoia and distrust of the government will do for you. Probably something wrong when you keep track of your ammo on a spread sheet. eep:


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## JJ Grandits (Nov 10, 2002)

Except for .22's the ammo shortage around here has seemed to have ended but my attitude is to get it while you can for who knows what tomarrow brings. When I was actively trap shooting I would go through about 2,000+ rounds a year. Maybe half that target shooting. All together that is a lot of ammo. What I shot off hunting could probably be carried in one pocket. With five different caliber rifles and three different shotgun gauges, a couple of thousand rounds total is not unusual. I just keep my eye out and try to pick something up every week or two.


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## V-NH (Jan 1, 2014)

Enough is defined by how much space you have to store it


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