# Sourdough Starter Making Questions



## whodunit (Mar 29, 2004)

I am trying to make my first WW sourdough starter. I began yesterday afternoon and hours later noticed a brownish liquid on top (I think they call this "hooch").

By the time I went to feed it this afternoon, it had swelled and was very puffy. I didn't really see any "hooch" but the smell was between "different" and "bad".

I followed the instructions which said to dump half and then feed.

I'll check it again later, but does it sound like I succeeded in just 24 hours? The instructions mentioned it taking sometimes up to a week!

What should the smell be like?

Any suggestions, thoughts, advice, or abusive remarks


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## katydidagain (Jun 11, 2004)

I had a starter get bubbling within 24 hours in Costa Rica; that's abnormal but it did happen. And to think all I had to work with was refined yucca flour! My 1st ever batch of beer, all grain wheat, was supposed to take at least a week to ferment; it was done in 2 days and was excellent!

There's quite a controversy about whether the "yeast" is in the flour or the air; I happen to believe it's the latter though using rye or wheat does seem to get things moving faster. I also don't dump out "1/2" therefore wasting anything but add sugar to feed the beast. DS has a very detailed book on the history of cooking which suggests adding salt to balance a starter; I do that.

I dry my starters by spreading them on plastic then freezing; that way I can be assured that, wherever I am, I can be up and running in short order. My current one I used to make English muffins in Ohio before bringing it back to MD where I made another batch. I'm debating drying the remainder to add to my collection or baking a loaf or 2. (BTW, this is CR, OH, NM and MD "air" and really strong; it puts instant yeast to shame.)


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## whodunit (Mar 29, 2004)

This had maybe some "bubbles" on the top but was very puffy, sticky and stretchy. It also doubled in "size". Is it ready to go in your experience?

What should it smell like?


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## katydidagain (Jun 11, 2004)

I would probably wait at least another day. Mine smells kind of like sweet sour wine when I consider it ready. Some people make thin starters; some make thick. I honestly don't measure anything; I'll add water and flour and stir with a metal spoon until I have a pancake batter consistency. (I break all the rules but I tried to make just one starter for over 20 years obeying the mandates and never got anything but a gray pasty layer topped with black water.)

This self-confessed rebel would take a small amount of starter--maybe a 1/2 cup--mix it with flour to form a soft dough and see if it rises. If it doesn't, stir it back into your starter, add some water and wait a few days. If it does, knead in some salt, make a "freeform" loaf, let it rise then bake. Simple test. It's only flour and water, right?


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## woodsman (Dec 8, 2008)

I found this recipe for a good sourdough starter at The Underground Baker. 

I simplified it so it's easier to remember and started with 2 tbs of each, rye and bead flour, raisins (organic - probably because whatever is needed is still alive on the raisins skins) and 1/2 cup of water which gives thick but runny dough.
Then I refreshed it twice adding on the second day 2 tbs of each rye and bread flour and 4 tbs of water and 4 tbs of both flours and 8 tbs of water on the third.
On the 4th day I strained out the raisins, removed 1/2 of the starter and added 1/2 cup of just bread flour (8 tbs) and 1/2 cup of water.
I did the same on the 5th day and on the 6th day the starter was ready to use.

Now you have to remove part of the starter each day of this process or else you end up adding 2 cups of both flour and water to it on day 5 which will be problematic due to the limited size of the container which at this point would have to big enough to hold 4 cups of flour mixed with 4 cups of water, more or less.
So starting with 1/4 cup of flour by day three I had a cup of flour invested total and from then on I removed half and added half each subsequent day.

From that moment on you refresh it by taking certain amount out and then add three times the flour and water amount of what is left (I take out 3/4 and add 3/4 cup of lour and 3/4 cup of water which always leaves me with 1 cup of water and 1 cup of flour in the going starter. After refreshing leave the starter for a few hours until it gets nice and bubbly and the keep it in a fridge for a few days until the next baking.

Now instead of just dumping the sourdough when you refresh it and not bake anything you can:

1. Fry it and give it to the chickens.
2. Make pancakes.
3. Use it to thicken broth (resulting in sourdough soup) which is then served with hard boiled eggs, potatoes, sausage, crumbled dry cottage cheese and some fried onions and garlic on top - a simple and tasty peasant fare.


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## Jeff54321 (Jan 26, 2005)

Just keep following the instructions and feeding it. The off aroma will pass.


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## funstuff (Sep 16, 2008)

dont give up. it is SOURdough. it will have a sour smell to it. and when you get a loaf of bread to finally rise and remain dense, you eat most of it with butter and honey in about 10 minutes, less if the kids help. 

and don't throw it away, cook it. biscuits, pancakes, and the rest. i have never dumped out any that i didn't use, seems wasteful.

also, if you let it sit for longer than 2-3 days to obtain a more sour flavor, stir lightly to keep the mixture from molding, it is fermentation. and a 2 week sour makes a most excellent pancake.


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## whodunit (Mar 29, 2004)

Thanks for all the advice.

I followed the directions (mine say to dump half and feed). I think it raised again and now that I have just checked it, it was back down and kind of separated. I stirred it. The smell from before is perhaps not kind as distinct.

I guess I'll use half to try a bread and feed again and see what happens.

I also just need to know that if something went wrong, the bread I made won't make anyone sick. I'm new to some of this stuff.


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## funstuff (Sep 16, 2008)

have 2 loaves rising now. you only need 1/2 cup of starter to keep your new dough going. if you are not going to use it for awhile put it in the fridge, covered and it will keep. just take it out the night before you want to use it.

have fun with your new animal, its different than regular bread, but tastes so much better.

it can't make you sick unless you are eating the starter, not agreeable to my stomach, but no problems with the dough. has a nice flavor to it.


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## whodunit (Mar 29, 2004)

I have the stuff I started the other day still going and am trying some sponge to see if bread rises.

I'll report what happens.


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## Jeff54321 (Jan 26, 2005)

Sourdough starter made from just flour and water can take 10 days or more to be ready for baking. If your instructions had you add yeast then it could be ready much sooner.


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## whodunit (Mar 29, 2004)

No yeast was added. I'm just wondering why less than 24 hours later I had the really light and puffy bubbly batter like I see in pictures. Now it seems almost dead; real runny and not much appears to be going on with it.


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## katydidagain (Jun 11, 2004)

I'm going to get smacked by the purists for suggesting this but I'd add a teaspoon of sugar and see what happens. All but the sesame seed rolls (choereg) in this basket are sourdough breads I made last year in NM with my 2nd ever starter which *gasp* I fed with sugar; nobody turned them down.


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## Jeff54321 (Jan 26, 2005)

"I'm just wondering why less than 24 hours later I had the really light and puffy bubbly batter like I see in pictures. Now it seems almost dead; real runny and not much appears to be going on with it."
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This is most likely normal....just keep following your instructions and do not add yeast or sugar.

What you had and what you see in the pictures are two different things. You will get to a lively sourdough starter, just keep going.

I have an easy to follow chart that you could use to make sourdough but it appears that I am unable to attach it here.

Jeff


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## woodsman (Dec 8, 2008)

Katydidonce, we're not governed by the German purity laws - we can add whatever we want to whatever it is we're making. 

It's all a matter of taste (the literal one, of course) - some people like more salt, some less some like sugar and eggs or other ingredients in their bread. And it's one of the reasons why I started baking myself - so I get exactly what I want.


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## bill not in oh (Jul 27, 2004)

Yeasts survive on sugar. They have the ability so convert many types of organic material to a variety of sugars (depending on the original organic material). If your yeast isn't as active as you think it should be, a dose of sugar probably will 'jump start' it. If you boil potatoes, save the water and use it instead of 'pure' water when you replace part of the starter - it's easier for the yeast to convert the carbs in the potato water than flour. If you are using tap water when you 'recharge' your starter, you may want to consider the water if it's not 'performing' as you think it should. Yeast prefer a SLIGHTLY acidic environment, and if your water is abnormally alkaline, you may want to use distilled water or amend your water with a bit of apple cider vinegar or citric acid - be careful with this as it doesn't take much to change the Ph.

PS: When we were in Costa Rica, Katy fed her starter one morning before we left for a day trip. When we got back it had 'crawled' out of the sizable container it was in and was proceeding to consume the counter. I'm not certain if there was sugar involved in that feeding, but that was one happy starter. And as a side note, I'm the fortunate recipient of her varied recipes of sourdough breads, and I'm VERY grateful!!!


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## Joe123 (Feb 24, 2008)

Not sure if this help but here goes the link.
http://whatscookingamerica.net/Bread/SourdoughStarter.htm


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## whodunit (Mar 29, 2004)

Seems to be smelling better. I had to start using unbleached flour because I ran out of whole wheat.

I think this is day 4 or 5, if I remember correctly.


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## Phillip (Feb 6, 2006)

My starter smells just like Jack Daniels... I live within 20 or so miles of the distillery, so I guess its a local bacteria...


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## Jeff54321 (Jan 26, 2005)

Sourdough involves a combination of yeast, lactic acid bacteria, and acetic acid. Each and every starter can be different depending on a number of factors. The temperature at which the starter is kept, the frequency of feeding, the consistency of the starter and for all I know whether or not you look at it on a full moon!!

There are many diverse opinions from the scientific community on the elements of sourdough and the changes it undergoes over time. There are a number of different lactic acid bacterias that grow under varied conditions. All in all the number of variables in a starter is quite large.

It is quite common for a new starter to display bad appearance and off aromas as it is coming to life and all of its elements are coming into balance. Once you get past this stage your starter will look and smell just fine.

Jeff


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