# People getting shot by toddlers on weekly basis



## Patchouli (Aug 3, 2011)

http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...shot-by-toddlers-on-a-weekly-basis-this-year/



> This week a 2-year-old in South Carolina found a gun in the back seat of the car he was riding in and accidentally shot his grandmother, who was sitting in the passenger seat. This type of thing happens from time to time: a little kid finds a gun, fires it, and hurts or kills himself or someone else. These cases rarely bubble up to the national level except when someone, like a parent, ends up dead.
> But cases like this happen a lot more frequently than you might think. After spending a few hours sifting through news reports, I've found at least 43 instances this year of somebody being shot by a toddler 3 or younger. In 31 of those 43 cases, a toddler found a gun and shot himself or herself.





> These numbers are probably an under count. There are likely instances of toddlers shooting people that result in minor injuries and no media coverage. And there are probably many more cases where a little kid inadvertently shoots a gun and doesn't hit anyone, resulting in little more than a scared kid and (hopefully) chastened parents.
> Notably, these numbers don't include cases where toddlers are shot, intentionally or otherwise, by older children or adults. Dozens of preschoolers are killed in acts of homicide each year, according to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention. But I haven't included those figures here.


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## Old Vet (Oct 15, 2006)

Did he buy it from a gun store? That means that if he found it and use it it was the fault of someone. Every one of my kids and grand kids know to not pick up a gun at the age of 1 year old.


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

It is against the law to store a gun in a manner accessible to minors.


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## wiscto (Nov 24, 2014)

I've been saying for a long time, there needs to be harsher penalties for doing it wrong....


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## po boy (Jul 12, 2010)

wiscto said:


> I've been saying for a long time, there needs to be harsher penalties for doing it wrong....


The gun owner should be charged with assault/attempted murder or just for being an idiot.


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

The storage laws have been in place for decades.

There are about 100 million gun owners and 300 million guns in the US.

No matter how badly some want to imply otherwise, accidental shootings are at historically low levels

http://www.bing.com/search?q=accide...ow+levels&go=Submit&qs=ds&form=QBLH&scope=web

10 times more children will be intentionally killed by their own parents:
http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2014/09/10/parents-kill-children-fbi-data/15280259/


> Sep 10, 2014 Â· On average, 450 children die every year at the hands of their parents.


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## Darren (May 10, 2002)

More kids die in traffic accidents and by drowning. Mostly preventable too.


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## Oldshep (Mar 28, 2015)

And the hard left's war on freedom continues.


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## arabian knight (Dec 19, 2005)

I grew up in a household that had guns in a open case in the master bedroom. 

Wwhen I was young, Dad, Grandpa, and Grandma, told me, and others, *NO do NOT touch ever.*
They put there Fear of God in me and anyone that brought their kids over., NO MEANT NO. PERIOD.

Do NOT TOUCH meant just THAT. DO NOT TOUCH, DO NOT HANDLE DO NOT meant DO NOT~!
If not the* Razor Belt* was always hanging up In Plain Site~! *PARENTS DO YOUR JOB.l*.
There does not need to be ANY LAW stating how a person can have gun displayed and stored at their OWN HOUSE~!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## farmrbrown (Jun 25, 2012)

arabian knight said:


> I grew up in a household that had guns in a open case in the master bedroom.
> 
> Wwhen I was young, Dad, Grandpa, and Grandma, told me, and others, *NO do NOT touch ever.*
> They put there Fear of God in me and anyone that brought their kids over., NO MEANT NO. PERIOD.
> ...


That's the way it was in my house. My dad never played when it came to discipline. If the look in his eye and tone of his voice didn't get your attention, there was always something that was a 100% guarantee.
The evidence?
I'm still here typing..........:happy2:


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## M5farm (Jan 14, 2014)

I have no real knowledge of this being a problem. You hear of it happening from time to time . I can't understand someone just laying a gun in a back seat with kids. I have several guns in my truck and have kids in it from time to time. I just use common sense and not leave the kids alone to get to them. No other law is going to change it and you can't fix stupid.


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## Old Vet (Oct 15, 2006)

There are some people that don't need to have guns. Those are the ones that are just not careful with them.


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## Cornhusker (Mar 20, 2003)

Patchouli said:


> T
> 
> That's it. Just people need to be responsible. And it worries me that so many people are not responsible.


And do you know why people are less responsible?
Because liberals teach people they are not responsible for their own lives
It takes a village
Blame white people and Republicans
Hate cops
Fear guns
It's the liberal way
But of course you won't take responsibility for it, you'll blame others like a true progressive liberal


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

Cornhusker said:


> And do you know why people are less responsible?
> Because liberals teach people they are not responsible for their own lives
> It takes a village
> Blame white people and Republicans
> ...


All from the hymnal of the new religion.


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## arabian knight (Dec 19, 2005)

Cornhusker said:


> Well quick!!!!
> Pass some gun laws!!!
> Registration!!!!
> Confiscation!!!!!
> HUrry!!!!!


And not one of the 300 million guns that 100 million people have will change. There still will be 300 million guns in the hands of 100 Million Americans. Just more restrictive laws from the left and their tear filled whining counter parts.


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## Win07_351 (Dec 7, 2008)

Bearfootfarm said:


> There were nearly no gun storage laws 50 years ago, and up until 1968 you could order them through the mail with no restrictions for the most part.


Lets bring back pre 1968 again.


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## M5farm (Jan 14, 2014)

Why worry about things you can't control??????

That's why we're in this mess because people want to fix something all the time or get justice for something that does not effect them.


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## Cornhusker (Mar 20, 2003)

arabian knight said:


> And not one of the 300 million guns that 100 million people have will change. There still will be 300 million guns in the hands of 100 Million Americans. Just more restive laws from the left and their tear filled whining counter parts.


Don't tell a liberal, they believe in any lie democrats tell them


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## 7thswan (Nov 18, 2008)

749 deaths on michigan roads this year ,so far. Don't know if any guns were involved.
I guess I should look up how many people died of drugs or were aborted even left in cars to bake in the sun before I 'll waste time on some idiot forgot and left their gun somewhere. I know someone that wiggs out if a knife is placed in the dishwasher pointy/sharp side up because the next person might be such a looser they might cut themself on a "improperly" placed knife.Oh by the way, how many highly educated Drs. kill /harm people each year.


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## Evons hubby (Oct 3, 2005)

po boy said:


> The gun owner should be charged with assault/attempted murder or just for being an idiot.


Sadly there doesn't seem to be any laws against being an idiot.... Some have even been elected president...... Twice! Another has been elected four times but that was years ago.


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## Evons hubby (Oct 3, 2005)

Bearfootfarm said:


> You're making things up now.
> Let's stick with actual facts
> 
> 
> ...


as it should be.


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## Patchouli (Aug 3, 2011)

farmrbrown said:


> There's nothing to argue about in your post.
> Everyday we see the results of irresponsibility and logically that would extend into gun ownership as well.
> If that's your point, I got it.
> If there's some OTHER point, waiting in the wings, let's hear it.
> ...


I think you would have to look at it on a case by case basis. For a lot of these families it will be the most horrific thing that ever happens to them and they will do everything possible to ensure it doesn't happen again. But it's quite possible some of these families are genuinely negligent and won't do anything. 

It's kind of like those cases where a parent leaves a kid in the car and they die from the heat. In almost all of those cases you know the parents just made a mistake and they are devastated. But every once in awhile the whole story is just squiffy. There was one with a Dad not too long ago where everything he did just didn't add up. I was all for trying him. I am fairly certain he went to jail.


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## Patchouli (Aug 3, 2011)

Bearfootfarm said:


> You're making things up now.
> Let's stick with actual facts
> 
> 
> ...


I OWN guns. I USE guns. I SHOOT guns for entertainment. I have had a gun for protection at home since I was in the military. I had guns when my kids were young. They were trained to leave them alone and that they were not toys. They got guns of their own at the appropriate ages. We kept ours stored appropriately.

I like guns just fine. I do not like IDIOTS who handle or carry or store or use their guns inappropriately. Get your panties out of a wad and listen to what I am saying here and stop trying to put words in my mouth because it gets very tiresome.


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## Patchouli (Aug 3, 2011)

You guys are so caught up in your fears someone might take your guns away that you can't see straight anymore. You want to talk about brainwashed? Indoctrinated? New religion? Well re-read this thread. There NO mention of taking guns away, new legislation, nothing. After I explained that was NOT my point here you went right on screaming about gun rights. 

Obviously hanging on to your guns trumps literally any sort of rational discussion at all.


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## farmrbrown (Jun 25, 2012)

Patchouli said:


> I think you would have to look at it on a case by case basis. For a lot of these families it will be the most horrific thing that ever happens to them and they will do everything possible to ensure it doesn't happen again. But it's quite possible some of these families are genuinely negligent and won't do anything.
> 
> It's kind of like those cases where a parent leaves a kid in the car and they die from the heat. In almost all of those cases you know the parents just made a mistake and they are devastated. But every once in awhile the whole story is just squiffy. There was one with a Dad not too long ago where everything he did just didn't add up. I was all for trying him. I am fairly certain he went to jail.


I'm all in favor of rounding up the idiots and derelicts among us, they manage to scare me on occasion in their reckless pursuit of life.
But to paraphrase the line from the movie "Jaws"........."We're gonna need a bigger prison."
:happy2:


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## InvalidID (Feb 18, 2011)

Patchouli said:


> http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...shot-by-toddlers-on-a-weekly-basis-this-year/


 That's very sad, the owner of the weapon must feel terrible. The kid must feel, or will feel later, terrible as well. 

But aside from sad things happening to good people what's the point here? Or is it just to make us sad? Are you asking for prayers for the family? Light work? Warm thoughts? Or....


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## Patchouli (Aug 3, 2011)

farmrbrown said:


> I'm all in favor of rounding up the idiots and derelicts among us, they manage to scare me on occasion in their reckless pursuit of life.
> But to paraphrase the line from the movie "Jaws"........."We're gonna need a bigger prison."
> :happy2:


 I don't know if we let all the people out of prison who weren't really doing anything wrong or hurting anyone we might have room for them.


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## Evons hubby (Oct 3, 2005)

Patchouli said:


> You guys are so caught up in your fears someone might take your guns away that you can't see straight anymore. You want to talk about brainwashed? Indoctrinated? New religion? Well re-read this thread. There NO mention of taking guns away, new legislation, nothing. After I explained that was NOT my point here you went right on screaming about gun rights.
> 
> Obviously hanging on to your guns trumps literally any sort of rational discussion at all.


Hanging on to our God given rights to defend ourselves and our country from invasions or tyrannical government, foreign or domestic is the only rational discussion option available. Any discussion that would attempt to infringe upon that right in any way is not only irrational but downright foolish. Our founding fathers understood this, I would ask why cant others?


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## Patchouli (Aug 3, 2011)

Yvonne's hubby said:


> Hanging on to our God given rights to defend ourselves and our country from invasions or tyrannical government, foreign or domestic is the only rational discussion option available. Any discussion that would attempt to infringe upon that right in any way is not only irrational but downright foolish. Our founding fathers understood this, I would ask why cant others?


Awesome go start a thread to discuss that. Or find a thread where someone is advocating infringing on your rights. Because that statement in this thread makes no sense whatsoever.


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## kasilofhome (Feb 10, 2005)

Do you understand the word infringed? This thread via your words falls under infringement of gun rights.


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## InvalidID (Feb 18, 2011)

Patchouli said:


> Awesome go start a thread to discuss that. Or find a thread where someone is advocating infringing on your rights. Because that statement in this thread makes no sense whatsoever.


 So what are you advocating?


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## kasilofhome (Feb 10, 2005)

Look plan parenthood hood us doing all they can to rid the world of toddlers. If they are successful there will no longer be these toddlers actions. Would that work for you?


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## Patchouli (Aug 3, 2011)

kasilofhome said:


> Do you understand the word infringed? This thread via your words falls under infringement of gun rights.


I think the real question here would be do you understand the definition of infringed.


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## Patchouli (Aug 3, 2011)

InvalidID said:


> So what are you advocating?


Responsibility.


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## InvalidID (Feb 18, 2011)

Patchouli said:


> Responsibility.


 Well of course, but what are you proposing? How do you force people to not be mentally deficient?


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## Evons hubby (Oct 3, 2005)

Patchouli said:


> *Obviously hanging on to your guns trumps literally any sort of rational discussion at all.*





Patchouli said:


> Awesome go start a thread to discuss that. Or find a thread where someone is advocating infringing on your rights.* Because that statement in this thread makes no sense whatsoever.*


Actually I thought your comment above opened the door to defend our rights. :shrug:


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## InvalidID (Feb 18, 2011)

Patchouli said:


> I think the real question here would be do you understand the definition of infringed.


 act so as to limit or undermine (something); encroach on; 

"his legal rights were being infringed"

synonyms:restrict, limit, curb, check, encroach


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## Patchouli (Aug 3, 2011)

InvalidID said:


> act so as to limit or undermine (something); encroach on;
> 
> "his legal rights were being infringed"
> 
> synonyms:restrict, limit, curb, check, encroach


Okay so please point out to me where my words in this thread infringed on you rights. Give me a quote.


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## Patchouli (Aug 3, 2011)

Yvonne's hubby said:


> Actually I thought your comment above opened the door to defend our rights. :shrug:


Your rights are not threatened. Again point out where any of my posts in this thread threatened your 2nd amendment rights. You guys sure are working hard to prove something in this thread. But I don't think you have any idea what it is you are proving.


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## InvalidID (Feb 18, 2011)

Patchouli said:


> Okay so please point out to me where my words in this thread infringed on you rights. Give me a quote.


 You're trolling. I'm bored so I'm playing along.


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## Evons hubby (Oct 3, 2005)

Patchouli said:


> Responsibility.


I'm all for responsibility... Seems a shame that our government doesn't pursue it on so many levels. Examples... Why can't people manage to be responsible for their own retirements? Their own day to day living expenses? Or their own medical care? These all seem to be much larger concerns than a few toddlers gaining access to a misplaced loaded fire arm. As tragic as that can be it pales in comparison to the loss of the greatest nation ever before seen in the entire world.


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## Evons hubby (Oct 3, 2005)

Patchouli said:


> Your rights are not threatened. Again point out where any of my posts in this thread threatened your 2nd amendment rights. You guys sure are working hard to prove something in this thread. But I don't think you have any idea what it is you are proving.


Agreed, your op did not directly attack second amendment rights.... But it was very much in line with those who would do so. Not unusual for many to take it as such. I did not bring that issue up until you claimed it was irrational for folks to defend our rights, I simply responded to that post in a rational manner.


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## Evons hubby (Oct 3, 2005)

sorry, double post


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## InvalidID (Feb 18, 2011)

Yvonne's hubby said:


> I'm all for responsibility... Seems a shame that our government doesn't pursue it on so many levels. Examples... Why can't people manage to be responsible for their own retirements? Their own day to day living expenses? Or their own medical care? These all seem to be much larger concerns than a few toddlers gaining access to a misplaced loaded fire arm. As tragic as that can be it pales in comparison to the loss of the greatest nation ever before seen in the entire world.


 Show me one post on this thread where I said purple! :trollface


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## kasilofhome (Feb 10, 2005)

To change, add, anything other than to execute an acceptable exchange of money for a gun is to infringe the buyer or the seller.

At the time the constitution was written only the seller and the buyer were involved with the purchase of arms.

How could what you claim is a loophole be changed...ended without increasing regulations. Thus infringing is the proper term as that would be the result of anything you want to do.


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## wr (Aug 10, 2003)

It's sad when someone gets hurt or killed accidentally but even in Canada, accidental discharges do happen and we are required to take firearms safety courses which should, in theory teach people about safe storage and handling. 

Calgary had 2 incidents this summer in which someone accidentally discharged a firearm in their own residence and in one case, a neighbor was actually shot and once hunting season is in full swing, we'll hear of at least one person that accidentally shot someone.


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## Evons hubby (Oct 3, 2005)

wr said:


> It's sad when someone gets hurt or killed accidentally but even in Canada, accidental discharges do happen and we are required to take firearms safety courses which should, in theory teach people about safe storage and handling.
> 
> Calgary had 2 incidents this summer in which someone accidentally discharged a firearm in their own residence and in one case, a neighbor was actually shot and once hunting season is in full swing, we'll hear of at least one person that accidentally shot someone.


Yep accidents happen, always have, always will, and as horrible as they can sometimes be that is no reason to jump to stupid conclusions. Thousands die every year in car accidents that could easily be prevented..... by outlawing cars but most people understand that is not a reasonable move so there is no outcry to have them outlawed.


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## kasilofhome (Feb 10, 2005)

Thus sad... emotion.... emotionally reacting to a sad event and removing logic and a binding oath American office holders take to defend the constitution while in office should stop those temporary leaders from dismantling our rights.... infringing our choice to own a gun for our own protection.

Gun safety was taught at schools in the seventy in New York.


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

Troll troll troll your boat gently down the stream
Merrily merrily merrily life is but a dream


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## simi-steading (Sep 27, 2012)

Sounds like it's time to start outlawing toddlers..


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## TripleD (Feb 12, 2011)

I really need to have a serious talk with mom and dad. My brother and I had free range hunting after school at 10 and 12 years old....


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## Tricky Grama (Oct 7, 2006)

Cornhusker said:


> Well quick!!!!
> Pass some gun laws!!!
> Registration!!!!
> Confiscation!!!!!
> HUrry!!!!!


Post of the day award.


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## Tricky Grama (Oct 7, 2006)

7thswan said:


> 749 deaths on michigan roads this year ,so far. Don't know if any guns were involved.
> I guess I should look up how many people died of drugs or were aborted even left in cars to bake in the sun before I 'll waste time on some idiot forgot and left their gun somewhere. I know someone that wiggs out if a knife is placed in the dishwasher pointy/sharp side up because the next person might be such a looser they might cut themself on a "improperly" placed knife.Oh by the way, how many highly educated Drs. kill /harm people each year.


Post of the century award.


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## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

Patchouli said:


> Your rights are not threatened. Again point out where any of my posts in this thread threatened your 2nd amendment rights. You guys sure are working hard to prove something in this thread. But I don't think you have any idea what it is you are proving.


You said that some gun owners are irresponsible, and that is absolutely true. To some people that means "They want to ban guns!" It doesn't, but the knee jerk reaction is fast and furious.


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## Tricky Grama (Oct 7, 2006)

Patchouli said:


> I OWN guns. I USE guns. I SHOOT guns for entertainment. I have had a gun for protection at home since I was in the military. I had guns when my kids were young. They were trained to leave them alone and that they were not toys. They got guns of their own at the appropriate ages. We kept ours stored appropriately.
> 
> I like guns just fine. I do not like IDIOTS who handle or carry or store or use their guns inappropriately. Get your panties out of a wad and listen to what I am saying here and stop trying to put words in my mouth because it gets very tiresome.


Understand.
So why this & not traffic deaths? Drownings? Medical malpractice?
What do you want done?
Personally, I'd like the Ds or progressives, whoever it is to just stop w/gun scares. As in trying to stop the boy scouts from teaching how to fire a gun, gun safety, etc. Stop the lying about gun violence on tv, in schools, etc.
Once we go back to the thought that its a good thing to own a weapon, we'll be better off. Go back to the days when kids were taught respect for guns, not fear, not so much curiosity that they picked 'em up & shot 'em.


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## Tricky Grama (Oct 7, 2006)

Patchouli said:


> Awesome go start a thread to discuss that. Or find a thread where someone is advocating infringing on your rights. Because that statement in this thread makes no sense whatsoever.


If you'd go back & read your OP, you'd see that you just tossed it there...no one could tell if you were lamenting, trolling, wanting solutions, baiting, or what.
So to berate any of us for picking up on your previous posts in other threads, is just unfair on your part.


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## Tricky Grama (Oct 7, 2006)

kasilofhome said:


> Look plan parenthood hood us doing all they can to rid the world of toddlers. If they are successful there will no longer be these toddlers actions. Would that work for you?


Post of the day award.
But sad.


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## Cornhusker (Mar 20, 2003)

Patchouli said:


> Responsibility.


From us or the government?


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## Cornhusker (Mar 20, 2003)

The left is calling for background checks, and we already have that.

The left keeps talking about a gun show loophole, there's no such thing.

The left cries for "common sense" gun laws, the left has no common sense when it comes to guns. They are uneducated and ignorant about guns and apparently American culture.

Here is what Obama, Clinton, all the Democrat politicians want:
Registration
It's been proven that registration leads to confiscation.
Confiscation leads to loss of liberty.

America was founded on liberty, therefore, Obama, Clinton, et al are waging a war against America and our founding principles.

We don't need more gun laws, and we don't want them


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## poppy (Feb 21, 2008)

Irish Pixie said:


> You said that some gun owners are irresponsible, and that is absolutely true. To some people that means "They want to ban guns!" It doesn't, but the knee jerk reaction is fast and furious.


I'm not sure a liberal would want to bring Fast and Furious into this discussion.:idea:


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## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

poppy said:


> I'm not sure a liberal would want to bring Fast and Furious into this discussion.:idea:


What do you mean?


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## Cornhusker (Mar 20, 2003)

Irish Pixie said:


> What do you mean?


Referring to Obama's boondoggle when he sold guns to the Mexican drug cartels to frame American gun owners.
It was "Operation Fast and Furious" and resulted in the murder of a Border Patrol agent.
Those guns also keep popping up at crime scenes, and if it hadn't been for a whistle blower, Obama would be screeching about how easy it is for bad guys to get guns.
Of course, he's not going to admit it was he and Holder that made it that easy.


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## arabian knight (Dec 19, 2005)

I think you do, if you would just stop and think about it a bit.


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## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

Cornhusker said:


> The left is calling for background checks, and we already have that.
> 
> The left keeps talking about a gun show loophole, there's no such thing.
> 
> ...


Generalizations truly suck. Why do you lump "the left" constantly? It's like me saying "the right" are all uneducated ******** that cook meth for a living. Are you uneducated and cook meth for a living? I am a responsible gun owner, and I want no _new_ gun legislation so lumping me into your generalization of "the left" is a bit insulting.


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## Cornhusker (Mar 20, 2003)

Irish Pixie said:


> Generalizations truly suck. Why do you lump "the left" constantly? It's like me saying "the right" are all uneducated ******** that cook meth for a living. Are you uneducated and cook meth for a living? I am a responsible gun owner, and I want no _new_ gun legislation so lumping me into your generalization of "the left" is a bit insulting.


Maybe I should have said radical left wingers like most democrat politicians?
Obama, Clinton, Sanders, Kerry, etc are all radical leftists.
Better?


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## arabian knight (Dec 19, 2005)

And this OP was from The WashintonCOMPOST what else can one expect from such a liberal progressive rag.


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## Patchouli (Aug 3, 2011)

farmrbrown said:


> Would the bolded statement include infringements on carrying loaded weapons on your person (purse) or car? Does 'lying around" include keeping and bearing on your property?
> If so, then your challenge has been answered.
> 
> My dad intentionally kept one DA .38 revolver in the nightstand that had no safety, loaded of course. This was for my mother. He wanted one weapon with her access that only required her to point and shoot.
> ...


Nope. You can do whatever you want. If you want to keep your kids safe I recommend not leaving a loaded gun lying around where your 2 yo can find it. If you like playing Russia Roulette with your kiddies have at it. 

I'd be curious though if he did that when you were babies? If your parents took any extra precautions up until you were old enough to learn not to touch the gun?


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## Patchouli (Aug 3, 2011)

Tricky Grama said:


> Most here is right.
> The locking the guns up part I'm not so sure.
> We've strayed from the days of children being disiplined so this accident doesn't happen. But if guns are locked up, how will they be used as protection?


You can have one out where you can get to it but the kids can not. I have a shotgun way up on the wall. I can reach it on my tiptoes. There is no way a small child could get to it. I am not a hand gun person. For my personal self defense I prefer a shotgun. You could do the same with a hand gun though you would just need a shelf.


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## Patchouli (Aug 3, 2011)

Tricky Grama said:


> Understand.
> So why this & not traffic deaths? Drownings? Medical malpractice?
> What do you want done?
> Personally, I'd like the Ds or progressives, whoever it is to just stop w/gun scares. As in trying to stop the boy scouts from teaching how to fire a gun, gun safety, etc. Stop the lying about gun violence on tv, in schools, etc.
> Once we go back to the thought that its a good thing to own a weapon, we'll be better off. Go back to the days when kids were taught respect for guns, not fear, not so much curiosity that they picked 'em up & shot 'em.


It was a rather shocking statistic that popped up on FB. The thing with the guns is it never has to happen. I mean literally has to happen. A few basic precautions and training your children and the problem is fixed. It doesn't require any outside intervention just responsible parents and disciplined kids. 

Drowning is easily preventable too. Traffic accidents you can do all you can to stay safe but you can't control the driver who hits you. So you buy a safe car and buckle your kid in. Way fewer kids die today in accidents just because of those 2 things. Pick a good doctor. Do your homework. Medical malpractice is fairly rare thankfully. 

My kids were members of a 4H group that did a rifle course. I am all for training. The more the better. 

The only thing I really disagree with is more people owning guns. Go to youtube and look up accidental gun firing. It will scare the pants off you how many stupid people there are out there.


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## Patchouli (Aug 3, 2011)

Tricky Grama said:


> If you'd go back & read your OP, you'd see that you just tossed it there...no one could tell if you were lamenting, trolling, wanting solutions, baiting, or what.
> So to berate any of us for picking up on your previous posts in other threads, is just unfair on your part.


I'll give you that. It occurred to me when I was typing my last post that I should have said it popped up on FB and shocked me. I was in a hurry when I posted. Next time I will give context.


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## AmericanStand (Jul 29, 2014)

Well I'm a responcable right wing gun owner and I want a new gun law. 
1 No unit of government shall restrict regulate or tax weapons in any way. 
Any current restrictions taxes or regulations are hereby abolished. 

2 The federal government shall establish and maintain a database of ALL persons known to be a creditable threat. Any person transferring a weapon who checks said database and does not find the tranferees name listed shall be immune to any liability arising from said transferee.


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## Tricky Grama (Oct 7, 2006)

Patchouli said:


> It was a rather shocking statistic that popped up on FB. The thing with the guns is it never has to happen. I mean literally has to happen. A few basic precautions and training your children and the problem is fixed. It doesn't require any outside intervention just responsible parents and disciplined kids.
> 
> Drowning is easily preventable too. Traffic accidents you can do all you can to stay safe but you can't control the driver who hits you. So you buy a safe car and buckle your kid in. Way fewer kids die today in accidents just because of those 2 things. Pick a good doctor. Do your homework. Medical malpractice is fairly rare thankfully.
> 
> ...


Post of the day award.
Except for the last paragraph.

IF the 1st part of your post EVER happens, the last paragraph won't be true.


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

AmericanStand said:


> Well I'm a responcable right wing gun owner and I want a new gun law.
> 1 No unit of government shall restrict regulate or tax weapons in any way.
> Any current restrictions taxes or regulations are hereby abolished.
> 
> 2 The federal government shall *establish and maintain a database of ALL persons known to be a creditable threat*. Any person transferring a weapon who checks said database and does not find the tranferees name listed shall be immune to any liability arising from said transferee.


And you wonder why I often say many of your ideas are unrealistic


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## Old Vet (Oct 15, 2006)

Patchouli said:


> The only thing I really disagree with is more people owning guns. Go to youtube and look up accidental gun firing. It will scare the pants off you how many stupid people there are out there.


So you think that everybody else is an idiot? You have yours and don't want anybody else to have theirs? Sad!!!


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

InvalidID said:


> Show me one post on this thread where I said purple! :trollface


Right there ^


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

Patchouli said:


> I OWN guns. I USE guns. I SHOOT guns for entertainment. I have had a gun for protection at home since I was in the military. I had guns when my kids were young. They were trained to leave them alone and that they were not toys. They got guns of their own at the appropriate ages. We kept ours stored appropriately.
> 
> I like guns just fine. I do not like IDIOTS who handle or carry or store or use their guns inappropriately. Get your panties out of a wad and listen to what I am saying here and stop trying to put words in my mouth because it gets very tiresome.


OK, so you like guns, as long as you can approve of who owns them.

The vast majority of gun owners are at least as responsible as you, and all the laws in the world won't change anything at all for the "negligent"


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## farmrbrown (Jun 25, 2012)

Patchouli said:


> Nope. You can do whatever you want. If you want to keep your kids safe I recommend not leaving a loaded gun lying around where your 2 yo can find it. If you like playing Russia Roulette with your kiddies have at it.
> 
> I'd be curious though if he did that when you were babies? If your parents took any extra precautions up until you were old enough to learn not to touch the gun?


Very likely. I was the oldest, so anything prior to age 2 or 3, I'd have to ask mom. But he was an avid hunter, owned and trained hunting dogs all his life, wanted to be a gunsmith and taught gun safety as soon as we could talk intelligently, (IOW knew what "yes' and "no" meant, lol).

My only serious childhood accident involved a hot cup of coffee, 3rd degree burns, and that was mom.

A few of those incidents involved toddlers but most happened after age 3 or 4.
They should have been taught better by then.


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## Win07_351 (Dec 7, 2008)

Tricky Grama said:


> Personally, I'd like the Ds or progressives, whoever it is to just stop w/gun scares. As in trying to stop the boy scouts from teaching how to fire a gun, gun safety, etc. Stop the lying about gun violence on tv, in schools, etc.


Probably not going to happen anytime soon. Guns are an easy and convenient enemy.


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## plowjockey (Aug 18, 2008)

This is why i get a chuckle, whenever I hear the ole' _"an armed society, is a polite society",_ where presumably, we are _all _better off, if we _all_ have guns, which - by the way, is granted under the U.S. Constitution.

It's hard to imagine anything more ludicrous, than everyone having guns.


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## JeffreyD (Dec 27, 2006)

plowjockey said:


> This is why i get a chuckle, whenever I hear the ole' _"an armed society, is a polite society",_ where presumably, we are _all _better off, if we _all_ have guns, which - by the way, is granted under the U.S. Constitution.
> 
> It's hard to imagine anything more ludicrous, than everyone having guns.


Yeah, hows that working out for those schools so far?

See, i am of the opposite opinion it's hard to imagine anything more ludicrous, than everyone *not* having guns. Armed areas seem to not have these violent types of shooting, why not? 

I mean i don't see anyone attacking police stations, gun shows and military installations except for 2, and they were gun free zones too!


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

> It's *hard to imagine anything more ludicrous*, than everyone having guns.


Not at all, when some think banning guns or making them harder for honest people to obtain will stop crimes from happening


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## arabian knight (Dec 19, 2005)

This is great. Stop Hi jacking of planes. Arm All the Passengers.
Yes that will do it just like arm everyone. Some towns have made it a policy to Own a Gun. That is a Great thing.

[YOUTUBE] ?v=-lDb0Dn8OXE[/YOUTUBE]


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## Evons hubby (Oct 3, 2005)

arabian knight said:


> This is great. Stop Hi jacking of planes. Arm All the Passengers.
> Yes that will do it just like arm everyone. Some towns have made it a policy to Own a Gun. That is a Great


 I've heard of several towns in the last thirty or so years that have done this (arm all their citizens) and have drastically reduced their crime rates.


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## Txsteader (Aug 22, 2005)

JMO, but you've got to be a special kind of stupid to leave a loaded gun w/in reach of an infant/toddler. I don't care how well you teach a child that young, the stakes are too great to trust that curiosity won't override what they've been taught. 

If a parent wouldn't let their toddler play unattended outside for fear they might wander into the street & get killed by a car, why would they they think it's OK to leave a loaded gun laying w/in easy access? :stars:


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## coolrunnin (Aug 28, 2010)

arabian knight said:


> This is great. Stop Hi jacking of planes. Arm All the Passengers.
> Yes that will do it just like arm everyone. Some towns have made it a policy to Own a Gun. That is a Great thing.
> 
> [YOUTUBE] ?v=-lDb0Dn8OXE[/YOUTUBE]



Holes in aircraft skin are detrimental to continued safe flight. Just saying


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## kasilofhome (Feb 10, 2005)

coolrunnin said:


> Holes in aircraft skin are detrimental to continued safe flight. Just saying


That fact alone might cause a would be problem to never happen.
Look, those wackadoddles typically don't want to die. Makes them think twice.

Imagine if you will being notified that even gun haters scared of guns ...with no training might be armed.... might make for a very well behaved flight.

Down side the booze service might have to end.


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## AmericanStand (Jul 29, 2014)

Bearfootfarm said:


> And you wonder why I often say many of your ideas are unrealistic



Ok what's unrealistic about that ?
My proposed law would help keep weapons out of the hands of those who shouldn't have them and restore rights to those who should.


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## MO_cows (Aug 14, 2010)

Txsteader said:


> JMO, but you've got to be a special kind of stupid to leave a loaded gun w/in reach of an infant/toddler. I don't care how well you teach a child that young, the stakes are too great to trust that curiosity won't override what they've been taught.
> 
> If a parent wouldn't let their toddler play unattended outside for fear they might wander into the street & get killed by a car, why would they they think it's OK to leave a loaded gun laying w/in easy access? :stars:


Unfortunately there are a lot of people around who really are that special kind of stupid. 

Look at the numbers. 300 million plus people in this country. Guns in more homes than not. Young kids in how many of those homes, either living there or visiting. Statistically it doesn't happen very much but because the starting numbers are so big, you can find a lot of instances.


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## AmericanStand (Jul 29, 2014)

Old Vet said:


> So you think that everybody else is an idiot? You have yours and don't want anybody else to have theirs? Sad!!!



Well yes!
Pretty much. 


But I can't defend my rights without defending theirs.


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## AmericanStand (Jul 29, 2014)

coolrunnin said:


> Holes in aircraft skin are detrimental to continued safe flight. Just saying



Tell ya what take a hundred rounds and fire them at randum in a Large jet. 
Chances are the pilots won't feel the performance difference. 

They might but the odds are against it.


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## coolrunnin (Aug 28, 2010)

kasilofhome said:


> That fact alone might cause a would be problem to never happen.
> Look, those wackadoddles typically don't want to die. Makes them think twice.
> 
> Imagine if you will being notified that even gun haters scared of guns ...with no training might be armed.... might make for a very well behaved flight.
> ...



You have way more faith in your fellow man than I do


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## coolrunnin (Aug 28, 2010)

AmericanStand said:


> Tell ya what take a hundred rounds and fire them at randum in a Large jet.
> Chances are the pilots won't feel the performance difference.
> 
> They might but the odds are against it.



Nope you try it and report the results.


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## Evons hubby (Oct 3, 2005)

coolrunnin said:


> Holes in aircraft skin are detrimental to continued safe flight. Just saying


That's why one should make sure their bullets stop in the body of the idiot trying to high jack the plane.... Hit what yer aiming at!


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## coolrunnin (Aug 28, 2010)

Yvonne's hubby said:


> That's why one should make sure their bullets stop in the body of the idiot trying to high jack the plane.... Hit what yer aiming at!


But AK wants to arm all passengers, I've seen my bil shoot.


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## AmericanStand (Jul 29, 2014)

coolrunnin said:


> Nope you try it and report the results.



I just did.


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## AmericanStand (Jul 29, 2014)

Yvonne's hubby said:


> That's why one should make sure their bullets stop in the body of the idiot trying to high jack the plane.... Hit what yer aiming at!



Yes that's my idea of gun control.


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

Txsteader said:


> JMO, but you've got to be a special kind of stupid to leave a loaded gun w/in reach of an infant/toddler. I don't care how well you teach a child that young, the stakes are too great to trust that curiosity won't override what they've been taught.
> 
> If a parent wouldn't let their toddler play unattended outside for fear they might wander into the street & get killed by a car, why would they they think it's OK to leave a loaded gun laying w/in easy access? :stars:


It's rarely intentional.
People are often surprised at when and where toddlers gain access


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

coolrunnin said:


> Holes in aircraft skin are detrimental to continued safe flight. Just saying


That's a Hollywood myth.
A few bullet hole won't cause any real problems as long as they don't damage critical control mechanisms, which are redundant on most planes anyway.

Planes have lost large sections of fuselage in flight and still landed safely


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## Patchouli (Aug 3, 2011)

Old Vet said:


> So you think that everybody else is an idiot? You have yours and don't want anybody else to have theirs? Sad!!!


Oh for goodness sakes. I didn't say that. You don't have any stupid neighbors you wish didn't have guns? I find that hard to believe since we live in the same state. And really the smarmy self righteousness wears a little thin since you guys are happy to rant about the stupidity of the average American all day long. 

Tell me this, would you want to live in the apartment above this guy?

[YOUTUBE]4o8YMWwPk7M[/YOUTUBE]

I got 1,870,000 results when I Googled videos of "gun accidentally goes off". Plenty more idiots out there like that. Only real hope we have is they win themselves Darwin awards.


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## Patchouli (Aug 3, 2011)

Bearfootfarm said:


> It's rarely intentional.
> People are often surprised at when and where toddlers gain access


Well in this years shootings the guns were left on kitchen tables, in cars, in purses, etc. Obviously it isn't intentional but it's not like it wasn't easily accessible.


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## Patchouli (Aug 3, 2011)

Bearfootfarm said:


> OK, so you like guns, as long as you can approve of who owns them.
> 
> The vast majority of gun owners are at least as responsible as you, and all the laws in the world won't change anything at all for the "negligent"


STOP PUTTING WORDS IN MY MOUTH. I never said anything about anyone having to pass my approval. I said there are a lot of idiots out there with guns. That is a statement of fact. Period. It's like saying the sky is blue. That does not imply I want to change the sky to pink with purple polka dots. It means the sky is blue.


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## arabian knight (Dec 19, 2005)

Bearfootfarm said:


> That's a Hollywood myth.
> A few bullet hole won't cause any real problems as long as they don't damage critical control mechanisms, which are redundant on most planes anyway.
> 
> Planes have lost large sections of fuselage in flight and still landed safely


Even The Mythbusters had a hard time with getting a fast decompression when it comes to a bullet fired inside a plane. They had to resort to BIG explosions done with plastics explosives~!
But a bullet hole or so, nope not at all.

[YOUTUBE] ?v=Fi1_1l7M8FA[/YOUTUBE]


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## Patchouli (Aug 3, 2011)

Yvonne's hubby said:


> I've heard of several towns in the last thirty or so years that have done this (arm all their citizens) and have drastically reduced their crime rates.


You think it is appropriate to force everyone to own a gun? So it's wrong to say anyone can't own one but it's perfectly fine to make people who don't want one have one anyways.


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## Cornhusker (Mar 20, 2003)

Patchouli said:


> STOP PUTTING WORDS IN MY MOUTH. I never said anything about anyone having to pass my approval. I said there are a lot of idiots out there with guns. That is a statement of fact. Period. It's like saying the sky is blue. That does not imply I want to change the sky to pink with purple polka dots. It means the sky is blue.


There are a lot of idiots out there voting for Obama, Clinton and other hate mongers.
Lots of idiots are afraid of guns.
A lot of idiots think we need more gun control.
A lot of idiots hate cops and love muslims.
A lot of idiots think there are a lot of idiots with guns.
The idiot list goes on and on and on.
And I'm not implying anything.


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## Cornhusker (Mar 20, 2003)

Patchouli said:


> You think it is appropriate to force everyone to own a gun? So it's wrong to say anyone can't own one but it's perfectly fine to make people who don't want one have one anyways.


I think your politicians should leave our guns alone.
Stop trying to take our rights.


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## Patchouli (Aug 3, 2011)

MO_cows said:


> Unfortunately there are a lot of people around who really are that special kind of stupid.
> 
> Look at the numbers. 300 million plus people in this country. Guns in more homes than not. Young kids in how many of those homes, either living there or visiting. Statistically it doesn't happen very much but because the starting numbers are so big, you can find a lot of instances.



One third of adults in America own guns. So that would be well less than half of the homes in America. It may be more like a quarter or less since 2 of those adults may live in the same home. 

http://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/one-three-americans-own-guns-culture-factor-study-finds-n384031


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## Patchouli (Aug 3, 2011)

Cornhusker said:


> There are a lot of idiots out there voting for Obama, Clinton and other hate mongers.
> Lots of idiots are afraid of guns.
> A lot of idiots think we need more gun control.
> A lot of idiots hate cops and love muslims.
> ...


Oh you are trying but sadly none of your points actually apply to anyone here so your little rant missed any sort of possible mark. Try stepping out here into reality sometime. The air is fine and truth is amazing! :thumb:


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## JeffreyD (Dec 27, 2006)

Patchouli said:


> One third of adults in America own guns. So that would be well less than half of the homes in America. It may be more like a quarter or less since 2 of those adults may live in the same home.
> 
> http://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/one-three-americans-own-guns-culture-factor-study-finds-n384031


What about all the folks that don't tell anyone that they own guns?


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

Patchouli said:


> You think it is appropriate to force everyone to own a gun? So it's wrong to say anyone can't own one but it's perfectly fine to make people who don't want one have one anyways.


They didn't "force" anyone to do anything.
They passed a law, which always means people will choose to follow it or not


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## BlackFeather (Jun 17, 2014)

I guess my problem with this thread is.. you can't legislate away stupidity. Why is this shooting my or anyone else's problem? It is like seat belt laws here in New York, I agree seat belts are good, but why do people think they have to make legislation about it? If some one wants to be stupid that is their right. If someone flies through a windshield in an accident, they chose to risk it. Same here if some one leaves a loaded gun on the back seat, well they were stupid, it is their fault and they will have to learn the hard way. You can't protect people from their stupidity. The only thing you can do is educate, but if they ignore or don't want to learn... oh well. It is not your place or my place to try to legislate people away from getting a Darwin award. As I implied on another thread, smart people will learn from the mistakes of others and it is the parent's responsibility (or extended family) to teach their children. Not yours or mine. If they don't learn or teach it isn't up to you or the government. (I use the word "you" and "your" as a general term.) So my opinion is that it is sad and I hope people learn from other's mistakes. Otherwise it doesn't concern me, it is the family's problem. I'll just mind my own business.


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## farmrbrown (Jun 25, 2012)

BlackFeather said:


> I guess my problem with this thread is.. you can't legislate away stupidity. Why is this shooting my or anyone else's problem? It is like seat belt laws here in New York, I agree seat belts are good, but why do people think they have to make legislation about it? If some one wants to be stupid that is their right. If someone flies through a windshield in an accident, they chose to risk it. Same here if some one leaves a loaded gun on the back seat, well they were stupid, it is their fault and they will have to learn the hard way. You can't protect people from their stupidity. The only thing you can do is educate, but if they ignore or don't want to learn... oh well. It is not your place or my place to try to legislate people away from getting a Darwin award. As I implied on another thread, smart people will learn from the mistakes of others and it is the parent's responsibility (or extended family) to teach their children. Not yours or mine. If they don't learn or teach it isn't up to you or the government. (I use the word "you" and "your" as a general term.) So my opinion is that it is sad and I hope people learn from other's mistakes. Otherwise it doesn't concern me, it is the family's problem. I'll just mind my own business.



Yes, this has been addressed already, I take it you're a Ron White fan too...

http://www.google.com/search?q=Ron+...v&ved=0CBQQsARqFQoTCPezn6W4yMgCFQoXPgod0TgBTw


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## kasilofhome (Feb 10, 2005)

In short blackfeather.... your view is mine... bluntly it takes a family to raise a child to maturity. A village simply raises a child to a larger child still needy of supervision and controlled.


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## Targe (Sep 14, 2014)

Patchouli said:


> One third of adults in America own guns. So that would be well less than half of the homes in America. It may be more like a quarter or less since 2 of those adults may live in the same home.


If you bothered to read the article you'd see that the report was based on responses from only 4,000 people. I don't think 4000 people can be construed to accurately represent the whole of America. For one thing, the article does not explain how those people were selected to participate. That alone could easily skew the findings.


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## InvalidID (Feb 18, 2011)

Patchouli said:


> You think it is appropriate to force everyone to own a gun? So it's wrong to say anyone can't own one but it's perfectly fine to make people who don't want one have one anyways.


_ In Switzerland the vast majority of men between the ages of 20 and 30 are conscripted into the militia and undergo military training, including weapons training. The personal weapons of the militia are kept at home as part of the military obligations. 

In some 2001 statistics, it is noted that there are about 420,000 assault rifles (fully automatic, or "selective fire") stored at private homes, mostly SIG SG 550 models. Additionally, there are some 320,000 semi-auto rifles and military pistols exempted from military service in private possession, all selective-fire weapons having been converted to semi-automatic operation only._

I'm all for it myself. A conscripted defensive only military, armed and ready to fight at a moments notice. Gun crimes in Switzerland, nearly nil....

_ In 2014 there were 173 attempted and completed homicides, of which 18 involved firearms (10.4%). 41 of them were completed, therefore Switzerland had a murder rate of 0.49 per 100,000 population, the lowest raw figure and lowest rate for 33 years, since the start of the nationwide coordinated collection of statistical data, despite a strong growth of inhabitants (from 6.4 million to 8.1 million, +27%) over the same period.

_Yes, let's turn the anti-gun lobby on it's head and push for mandatory firearms training and every able bodied (and minded) male between 18 and 30 must own, posses, maintain, and practice with an M-16. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_politics_in_Switzerland#cite_note-15
http://www.homesteadingtoday.com//www.pinterest.com/pin/create/extension/


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## Cornhusker (Mar 20, 2003)

Patchouli said:


> Oh you are trying but sadly none of your points actually apply to anyone here so your little rant missed any sort of possible mark. Try stepping out here into reality sometime. The air is fine and truth is amazing! :thumb:


Denial much?


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## Cornhusker (Mar 20, 2003)

Patchouli said:


> One third of adults in America own guns. So that would be well less than half of the homes in America. It may be more like a quarter or less since 2 of those adults may live in the same home.
> 
> http://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/one-three-americans-own-guns-culture-factor-study-finds-n384031


In any poll about guns, many people will say they don't own any because it's nobody's business.
Some people even think polls are used by the Obama "administration" as a tool in their gun control.
Any polls about gun ownership are likely very inaccurate.
Most of us lost all our guns in a boating accident or mudslide.
Also, it depends on who they polled.
If they polled this part of the country, and if they got an honest answer, gun ownership would be much much higher.
Regardless, it's not the government's business how many guns we have, they are not in charge of us.


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## Txsteader (Aug 22, 2005)

Cornhusker said:


> Regardless, it's not the government's business how many guns we have, *they are not in charge of us.*


Well said! :clap: :clap:

Sadly, that's something far too many in this country fail to understand.


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## mnn2501 (Apr 2, 2008)

Patchouli said:


> Responsibility.


You can't legislate 'responsibility' or to quote Forest Gump "Stupid is as stupid does"


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## poppy (Feb 21, 2008)

The guns didn't shoot anyone. It was the toddlers. We clearly need toddler control legislation. Lock the little crumb snatchers in an empty room away from the guns.


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