# 1 in 8 Americans receive food stamps



## primroselane (May 10, 2002)

That's 2,354 of our members.

The average monthly benefit was $133.60 per person in October.


----------



## Shygal (May 26, 2003)

primroselane said:


> That's 2,354 of our members.
> 
> The average monthly benefit was $133.60 per person in October.


That will buy maybe 3 bags of groceries for a month


----------



## Ken Scharabok (May 11, 2002)

I suspect title is misleading. I suspect it is more 1/8 receive food assistance but only one in a family may actually receive the supplemental payment.

Food Stamps (and even they were were coupons) now falls under the SNAP program - Supplemental Nutrition Assistance Program. WIC falls under it also. Back when I had a bent & dent store I was certified for Food Stamps but not WIC as I didn't carry things like fresh milk and eggs.


----------



## Guest (Jan 13, 2010)

Here's an article:

http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSTRE60C07520100113


----------



## Guest (Jan 13, 2010)

And another article:

http://www.latimes.com/news/nation-and-world/la-na-food-stamps12-2010jan12,0,1889154.story


----------



## Beeman (Dec 29, 2002)

I was talking with the head of the local rescue ministry that provides food in the 2 adjoining counties. In 2009 they gave out 952,000 lbs. of food to the needy. In 2008 they gave out 550,000 lbs. No typos that's real numbers, totally mind boggling.


----------



## Guest (Jan 13, 2010)

Beeman said:


> I was talking with the head of the local rescue ministry that provides food in the 2 adjoining counties. In 2009 they gave out 952,000 lbs. of food to the needy. In 2008 they gave out 550,000 lbs. No typos that's real numbers, totally mind boggling.


The homeless mission here not only feeds the homeless, but people living in the surrounding neighborhood (many of them working people), can also go there and eat when their paycheck and/or foodstamps aren't stretching far enough to keep groceries on the table.

For years and years and years, the mission averaged 20-40 people at dinner time. 

A couple years back, the number started growing. Then it got even worse when so many factories here started closing or downsizing in the last year.

Now the mission feeds around 200 at dinnertime!!


----------



## clovis (May 13, 2002)

I have spent more than my fair share of time in grocery check out lanes, and have often wondered if I was the only person left in America that wasn't recieving food stamps. I say that jokingly, but it is extremely surprising how many people use some sort of food assistance, whether it is food stamps or WIC.


----------



## HermitJohn (May 10, 2002)

Shygal said:


> That will buy maybe 3 bags of groceries for a month


You arent going to live off that buying heavily promoted yuppie foods or their generic clones. But you can still easily keep a full belly on traditional brown rice and beans and whole wheat flour for tortillas. Produce unfortunately is very high priced for very low quality. I still dont see how the stores sell it, guess people have no notion what decent produce tastes like. Would have to do sprouts for something green. There is a story of Japanese-American family in WWII internment camp that found small patch alfalfa in their compound. They added some of that to their diet and kept healthier than many others in camp living totally on starch diet.


----------



## Gercarson (Nov 2, 2003)

clovis said:


> I have spent more than my fair share of time in grocery check out lanes, and have often wondered if I was the only person left in America that wasn't recieving food stamps. I say that jokingly, but it is extremely surprising how many people use some sort of food assistance, whether it is food stamps or WIC.


The amazing part of what you say is the people on "food stamps" probably hate you. I was shocked to read in another forum about the "homeless" and it seemed they sort of blamed it on the "rich" tourists who came to their area. They just didn't like to see the producers enjoy the fruits of their OWN labor - sort of like - how can they "have" while so many "have not" - scary - very scary because if they NEED assistance, it's because they are not producing for themselves (for WHATEVER reason - legitimate or not) and are looking to the producers to provide for them. Well, it's government mandated that you pay taxes to support the non-producers and it's the government's rules and regulations that have caused the producers to close shop or move shop - it's a no win situation and when the producers STOP who will get the blame?


----------



## Aintlifegrand (Jun 3, 2005)

1 out 8? It soon will be 4 out of 8 then 6 out of 8 and then finally 8 out of 8....that is how entitlements work... they are like a sickness that spreads over generations...soon enough those who produce start to feel that it is not worth it or stop feeling any sort of pride in taking care of oneself and ones family. Then soon those people stop producing over a generation or so...it always works out like that...we as a nation are creating this ourselves and I can assure you that no amount of job recovery will ever change that mindset.. was it Margaret Thatcher who said the problem with socialism is that eventually you run out of other people's money? I will go one step further..The problem with entitlement programs is that soon everyone feels entitled...


----------



## Guest (Jan 13, 2010)

Shygal said:


> That will buy maybe 3 bags of groceries for a month





HermitJohn said:


> You arent going to live off that buying heavily promoted yuppie foods or their generic clones. But you can still easily keep a full belly on traditional brown rice and beans and whole wheat flour for tortillas. Produce unfortunately is very high priced for very low quality. I still dont see how the stores sell it, guess people have no notion what decent produce tastes like.


 Here's how ya do it:

http://www.homesteadingtoday.com/showthread.php?t=337693


----------



## Oldcountryboy (Feb 23, 2008)

If unemployment keeps rising, and government funds keep shrinking, how long will it be before the gov runs out of food stamp money? I'm curious on just how long the government can keep giving out food stamps to everyone in need? 

That's why I think it's a good ideal for everyone to learn how to grow their own food. One of these days the government may have to cut you off. Wha'cha gonna do then?


----------



## HermitJohn (May 10, 2002)

ladycat said:


> Here's how ya do it:
> 
> http://www.homesteadingtoday.com/showthread.php?t=337693



I assume there was some video trying to load. My dialup connection gave up. Since it was "coupon mom" link, assume coupons involved. Very rare have I ever seen a coupon for any basic staples, neither healthy nor industrial chemical genetically manipulated versions. Coupons are intended to introduce you to some high profit processed product that you then presumably just cant live without and will pay high dollar for without a coupon.


----------



## Guest (Jan 13, 2010)

HermitJohn said:


> I assume there was some video trying to load. My dialup connection gave up. Since it was "coupon mom" link, assume coupons involved. Very rare have I ever seen a coupon for any basic staples, neither healthy nor industrial chemical genetically manipulated versions. Coupons are intended to introduce you to some high profit processed product that you then presumably just cant live without and will pay high dollar for without a coupon.


The link was to a video where coupon mom bought a full shopping cart of HEALTHY and organic foods for only $50.

I do it all the time.


----------



## HermitJohn (May 10, 2002)

Oldcountryboy said:


> If unemployment keeps rising, and government funds keep shrinking, how long will it be before the gov runs out of food stamp money? I'm curious on just how long the government can keep giving out food stamps to everyone in need?
> 
> That's why I think it's a good ideal for everyone to learn how to grow their own food. One of these days the government may have to cut you off. Wha'cha gonna do then?


Food stamps are more about corporate welfare than feeding people, thats why they dont limit what you can buy. A corporatist government whether Democrat or Republican isnt gong to ever bite the hand that makes re-election possible.....

I'm already totally disgusted with seeming every food product being debased and turned into garbage by those after the last nickel of profit. But you dont just instantly start raising all your own food or even a significant part of it. Especially if you either have limited land or like me, not so fertile land. Takes time to build soil up and more fencing to protect it from wildlife, etc. Then mother nature can be fickle as to weather.


----------



## HermitJohn (May 10, 2002)

ladycat said:


> The link was to a video where coupon mom bought a full shopping cart of HEALTHY and organic foods for only $50.
> 
> I do it all the time.


So you get coupons for organic produce, organic whole wheat flour, organic rice and beans, organic olive oil, etc? Or do you get coupons for highly processed foods supposedly made from organic ingredients?


----------



## DavisHillFarm (Sep 12, 2008)

I will not knock anyone who truly needs assistance, but I know, my wife and I will never ever take anything the government has to offer. I refuse to be on the government tit. We've been to the grocery store at the beginning of the month, and have seen first hand the crap people buy. Few who are on food stamps, put very little thought into their meals for the month...it's shocking to see what they buy, and I believe none of those folks know how to cook.


----------



## bowdonkey (Oct 6, 2007)

One in eight is a little hard to believe.


----------



## Va. goatman (May 12, 2006)

I took a job 2 nights a week at a fast mart and was surprised at how many came in with a Food card and buy $30 to $60 of just Junk food at twice the price of food lion just down the road. I can see their balance when I run the cards and at the 1st of the month most I see have over $400 one was near $700 these are all healthy Women and 2 men come in a lot to Make's me sick I work 2 jobs to help keep them in junk food


----------



## whiskeylivewire (May 27, 2009)

That doesn't seem right because when you get food stamps it's for a whole family(unless you're single). So if you have 6 people in your family they would all fall into that. I know it's getting rougher for people out there though, so I'm sure the numbers will rise. And we get waaaaaaay below that per person, we get 170 dollars total. I can almost feed the whole family on that, by hitting sales and using coupons(which gets you very strange looks from cashiers, using coupons with a food stamps card!).


----------



## clovis (May 13, 2002)

HermitJohn said:


> Food stamps are more about corporate welfare than feeding people, thats why they dont limit what you can buy. A corporatist government whether Democrat or Republican isnt gong to ever bite the hand that makes re-election possible.....


Ding! Ding! Ding! We have a winner!!!!

John, you could not be more correct on this thought.

What Senator or Congressman is going to vote to remove junk food from the list of items that can be purchased with food stamps? No elected representative is going to vote to remove potato chips or Twinkies if they have a Frito Lay or Hostess plant in their district or state.


----------



## Guest (Jan 14, 2010)

HermitJohn said:


> So you get coupons for organic produce, organic whole wheat flour, organic rice and beans, organic olive oil, etc?


I sure do.


----------



## Gercarson (Nov 2, 2003)

HermitJohn said:


> Food stamps are more about corporate welfare than feeding people, thats why they dont limit what you can buy. A corporatist government whether Democrat or Republican isnt gong to ever bite the hand that makes re-election possible.....
> 
> I'm already totally disgusted with seeming every food product being debased and turned into garbage by those after the last nickel of profit. But you dont just instantly start raising all your own food or even a significant part of it. Especially if you either have limited land or like me, not so fertile land. Takes time to build soil up and more fencing to protect it from wildlife, etc. Then mother nature can be fickle as to weather.


Our population in the United States today is well over three hundred and ten million people. New York and Chicago and other very large cities have people who NEED to be fed and nourished. Now, that takes some ingenuity and that task has been taken on by the government - a job given to it very, very willingingly by those who RECEIVE food stamps and those who do receive those food stamps are the ones who keep the cycle in force. Yes, corporations do step in to fill the void and the food IS approved by "government" labratories and ingredients are listed. The government is the culprit and corporations, like the food stamp receipients, are there to fill the void. You are blaming the wrong entity and wealth is not the problem. I really would like to see all the people who live in abject squalor stand up and make a decision on their own to STOP being a food stamp addict and even TRY to grow some of their own food. Not going to happen as long as there are potato chips and hot dogs - purchased by FOOD STAMPS given by the government and they will keep voting for whoever gives them food stamps.


----------



## Ken Scharabok (May 11, 2002)

I don't remember hearing of a single national or state office candidate running with part of their platform being raising the amount of SNAP.

Recently WIC was modified towards healthier foods. So, perhaps there is still a tad of hope. Perhaps it needs to be separated into two programs. On one you can buy what is currently allowed. On the other it is more WIC like, but the funds provided are more. With computerized check out it could be done. Card would just have to be swipped first (and they may have to be now, I don't know).

Sort of like the local hospital which use to advertise nurse vacancy positions with two options. Higher base but no benefits or lower base with benefits.


----------



## Gercarson (Nov 2, 2003)

While I have NEVER heard of a single national or state office candidate running with welfare as a platform - I DO remember this: "Obama gonna pay my gas and mortgage!". Peggy Joseph, thinks Barack Obama will pay for her gas, mortgage, and who knows what else. Where DID she get that idea? Why would anyone think that? Yet, it's perfectly understood - I don't know any code words either.
If you listen to any "conservative" news at all you know that Barack Hussein Obama has an apparent personal "stash" that pays for lots and lots of "stuff" - all you need do, is ask.


----------



## Beeman (Dec 29, 2002)

ladycat said:


> The homeless mission here not only feeds the homeless, but people living in the surrounding neighborhood (many of them working people), can also go there and eat when their paycheck and/or foodstamps aren't stretching far enough to keep groceries on the table.
> 
> For years and years and years, the mission averaged 20-40 people at dinner time.
> 
> ...


 We have no provisions for homeless in these counties, but yes we have homeless people. Many gravitate to cities because that is where the help is. Around here they gravitate to Knoxvoille,TN. The Knox area recue ministries said they are feeding 1600 meals per day, Knoxville is not a big city.


----------



## beccachow (Nov 8, 2008)

Shygal, Hermit, and others (how do you post quotes from different posts!!): that IS a pretty small amount when you think of it. I am afraid that is why fraud is rampant. I know someone (in fact I work with him) who somehow was getting stamps, and would sell the stamps (this was some years ago, and I wonder if I knew he was still doing it if I would report him now?).


----------



## Guest (Jan 15, 2010)

beccachow said:


> (how do you post quotes from different posts!!):


See the little button at the bottom of posts that Says *[Quote+]*? (The one with the plus sign).

As you're reading a thread, click that button under a post you want to quote, and then just keep reading. Then when you're ready to post, hit reply at the bottom of the page, and all the quotes you clicked will show up in your post all at once.


----------



## maidservant (Dec 10, 2007)

Ok, as one of those who is recieving a meager share of food stamps, I do agree that too many on them buy junk. What do I buy? Milk, bread (from the dollar store), flour, rice, dried beans, vinegar, plus ingredients for making soap that could be considered food. I get $106 per month, and it does not get spread across the family. Now, with that being said, I am going to college full time on scholarships to earn at least one degree (I'm aiming for three) and in my area, I'm lucky to work for 2-4 hours per week. I do have a garden every year and I preserve as much as I can, although last years garden was quite pitiful. I also raise chickens and rabbits for eggs and meat. I know how to clean a deer and I'm not afraid to do it. 

I guess my point is this, don't lump all food stamp recieving people into one group. The way I see it, there are at least three groups. One could care less about making things better for themselves, and they typically buy junk. The second is illegal aliens living here b/c of their kids, and all they buy is meat (DO NOT get me started on that issue). The third group is composed of people who are trying their darnest to scrape by and who are trying to make things better for themselves. 

I think that government aid should be there for those who truely NEED it, but I also believe that families should support each other. Right now, 90% of my family is unemployed or gravely ill. I am one of the younger members, so I am expected to support the older ones, which I cannot do right now. After I get my degrees, hopefully I will be able to help my family and get off of food stamps.


----------



## Guest (Jan 25, 2010)

Maidservant, I wish you all the best.


----------



## Gercarson (Nov 2, 2003)

ArkGirl said:


> Maidservant, I wish you all the best.


Ditto - God Bless you.


----------



## Andy Nonymous (Aug 20, 2005)

While I have no problem with those like maidservant who are doing their best to make it possible to make ends meet getting help, I still have to wonder why the gummint has to be involved? Wouldn't her community know her and her situation far better than some bureau-rat, and know whether the "investment" was well placed? Shouldn't her immediate community (family, friends, neighbors, congregation, etc) be her support group?

I collected $28 in foodstamps, once, and my conscience got the better of me. I've more than paid them back. Now I do not willingly participate in any gummint aid program, because that only shifts the burden back to the few taxpayers left (like me), and it seems horribly inefficient paying an office full of bureau-rats to divvy up my and everyone else's share of taxes back to myself that I can better afford to pay my property taxes, which will have to rise because there is now at least one more person on the dole (me), increasing the bureau workload and costing the county more, which now helps bankrupt several others just trying to scrape by who will be forced to apply for benefits, again increasing the tax burden... :umno:

Bottom line: it can't continue. It won't continue. The benefits will stop either when the g-mint goes so broke they can't even borrow their way out of today's crisis, or when the few taxpayers left say "no!". (There were 12 pages of properties up for tax sales in the paper for our mostly rural county, in 6pt type, some of which were listed as owned by the county, meaning they didn't get bids high enough to cover the back taxes owed at the last auction.) 
Whether that comes at 1 in 6, or 1 in 4, it's coming.


----------



## Gercarson (Nov 2, 2003)

Andy Nonymous said:


> While I have no problem with those like maidservant who are doing their best to make it possible to make ends meet getting help, I still have to wonder why the gummint has to be involved? Wouldn't her community know her and her situation far better than some bureau-rat, and know whether the "investment" was well placed? Shouldn't her immediate community (family, friends, neighbors, congregation, etc) be her support group?
> 
> I collected $28 in foodstamps, once, and my conscience got the better of me. I've more than paid them back. Now I do not willingly participate in any gummint aid program, because that only shifts the burden back to the few taxpayers left (like me), and it seems horribly inefficient paying an office full of bureau-rats to divvy up my and everyone else's share of taxes back to myself that I can better afford to pay my property taxes, which will have to rise because there is now at least one more person on the dole (me), increasing the bureau workload and costing the county more, which now helps bankrupt several others just trying to scrape by who will be forced to apply for benefits, again increasing the tax burden... :umno:
> 
> ...


You must take the time to look up The ClowardâPiven strategy and you will see why America is in "the shape it's in" - notice that the "strategy" IS working, and working extremely well. There are those who need a lot of help and I'm happy they can get it - but ... google The ClowardâPiven strategy.


----------



## TheMartianChick (May 26, 2009)

Andy Nonymous said:


> While I have no problem with those like maidservant who are doing their best to make it possible to make ends meet getting help, I still have to wonder why the gummint has to be involved? Wouldn't her community know her and her situation far better than some bureau-rat, and know whether the "investment" was well placed? Shouldn't her immediate community (family, friends, neighbors, congregation, etc) be her support group?


The problem with this statement is that a lot of people don't want their community to know their situation and not everyone has family, friends, close neighbors or a congregation to rely upon. My friends and neighbors do not know my financial circumstances at all. I do not share any "real" information of that nature with anyone. I am sure that they make assumptions about my family, though.

I used to work next to a drugstore. My office overlooked the parking lot. I began to notice this one older gentleman going into the store daily to buy beer. He would carry 2 cases out and proceed to put them into some black bags that he kept in the car. It is highly possible that his neighbors don't know that he drinks as much as he does, because they never see him bring the beer into his house. On the flip side, he could be as sober as can be and just supplying (enabling) someone else to drink. Not knowing the real story, I am free to jump to any conclusion that I'd like and it isn't fair to that old guy because I don't really know anything about him except what I see through the window.


----------



## whiskeylivewire (May 27, 2009)

I'm right there with you Maidservant. I'm working towards a degree as well(biology sucks btw lol) and hoping to improve our life so that we never have to be on support again. I also want to be able to give back, and try to now, any clothes go to the local "goodwill" that we don't wear anymore. We're blessed to have a place in our county that sells clothes for .25, jeans for .50. And it's usually pretty good stuff too!


----------



## maidservant (Dec 10, 2007)

I'm going for my biology degree, chemistry degree, and math degree. I am only a handful of classes away from all three. I love true biology, even though there are some things that I just have to regurgitate on tests to pass, namely the evolution crap.

Emily in NC


----------



## whiskeylivewire (May 27, 2009)

I'm going for a degree in education, history teacher for me. I'm not so good at science and math and yes the evolution stuff is a nightmare!


----------



## Zipporah (Jul 30, 2006)

What's scary is those figures were from 2008.It's worst I imagine now.


----------



## Beeman (Dec 29, 2002)

http://datacenter.kidscount.org/data/bystate/Rankings.aspx?state=TN&ind=3019

Here's a chart from 2006 for Tennessee, Hancock county is one of the most rural counties in the state. Look at the percentage on food assistance. 
It's a funny thing about poverty,food stamps and welfare, most associate it with the inner city. There's plenty in the cities and then it drops dramatically as you reach the suburbs and then climbs again as soon as you leave the suburbs. Of course the numbers look smaller in rural areas because there is less population but the percentages are generally very high.


----------



## NamasteMama (Jul 24, 2009)

ladycat said:


> The link was to a video where coupon mom bought a full shopping cart of HEALTHY and organic foods for only $50.
> 
> I do it all the time.


Ok she did buy food, but most of those foods were not organic, LowFat Yoplait has aspertame, conventiona fruits and vegis have tons of pesticides, I cold go on and on. There is not way you can only shop at the grocery store and eat organic foods on a food stamp budget. I would spend $300+ a week to feed my family on 100% organic foods and thats basics cooking from scratch . I also firmly believe WIC was modified to save money because I was on WIC and once the changes went into effect they checks cover 1/2 the $ amount of food. It came out to not be worth it to make the 20 mile round trip for the appointments.


----------



## Guest (Jan 27, 2010)

NamasteMama said:


> Ok she did buy food, but most of those foods were not organic, LowFat Yoplait has aspertame, conventiona fruits and vegis have tons of pesticides, I cold go on and on. There is not way you can only shop at the grocery store and eat organic foods on a food stamp budget. I would spend $300+ a week to feed my family on 100% organic foods and thats basics cooking from scratch . I also firmly believe WIC was modified to save money because I was on WIC and once the changes went into effect they checks cover 1/2 the $ amount of food. It came out to not be worth it to make the 20 mile round trip for the appointments.


I said *healthy and organic.* The stuff she bought is healthier than 95% of Americans eat. Fresh veggies, whole grains, etc.

And you can buy organic incredibly cheap.


----------



## NamasteMama (Jul 24, 2009)

I wish. I made a trip to Whole Foods last week and just about died. To get non China grown foods I was spending $6+ for a bag of veggies. I gave up and put it all back.


----------



## Guest (Jan 27, 2010)

NamasteMama said:


> I wish. I made a trip to Whole Foods last week and just about died. To get non China grown foods I was spending $6+ for a bag of veggies. I gave up and put it all back.


We don't have a Whole Foods or any kind of whole food store here. But how big was the $6 bag of veggies?

I use coupons to get both frozen organic veggies and fresh organic veggies and fruits. With the coupons, especially when stacking with a sale, the organic often works out cheaper than the conventional.

Also, when I use coupons such as: *$1 off ANY fresh produce*, I weigh bulk organic produce, and divide into bags each as close to $1 worth as possible. I get lots of it nearly free that way.

For that matter, sometimes the organic is cheaper anyhow. For example, the organic cauliflower is almost always the same price to cheaper.


----------



## Andy Nonymous (Aug 20, 2005)

Ladycat, it may be so where you are at, but it ain't so 'round here. There is one chain store within 20 miles that carries a small section of organic stuff - two brands of bread (Ezekiel and Ace), some frozen stuff (Julies ice cream, Amy's pizzas), milk (Horizion - now questionably organic, and a store brand), yogurt, salad greens, carrots, usually a small selection of apples, occasionally some crucifer or citrus, and most at half to twice more than conventional, even when on sale. I've never seen a coupon for organic stuff, but then again, while I do eat mostly organic, I don't often shop at the local market (we belong to a buying club/co-op and grow and put up our own), and I don't put myself in the path of the sort of ad stream that might provide them.

Food stamps would not go far buying organic here, unless I was buying seeds and canning lids.

Gercarson, thanks for the tip - very informative. :cowboy:


----------



## Guest (Jan 27, 2010)

Andy Nonymous said:


> I've never seen a coupon for organic stuff,


You have to track them down. Read posts #72 and #73 here:
http://www.homesteadingtoday.com/showthread.php?p=3948070#post3948070


----------



## Guest (Feb 9, 2010)

*Study: Subsidized healthy foods cheaper option to improve nutrition*

Subsidizing fruit, vegetables and milk for Food Stamp Program participants would be more cost effective to increase consumption than raising the overall level of food stamp benefit, according to a new study.

http://www.foodnavigator.com/Public...ods-cheaper-option-to-improve-nutrition-Study


----------



## cast iron (Oct 4, 2004)

It's always fashionable to pick on the food stamp people, and it is so easy for all of us to judge their situations and behavior from on high atop our homesteading horse. If the food stamp people eat a banana rather than a ding dong they are doing better then 70% of the population already, much less organic and all that other business.

There is no doubt that there's abuse within the system to some extent, but here is to some of these folks who are able to make good use of the assistance during troubled times, and that they can get back on their feet without need for assistance (whether they are eating regular bananas, super duper organic bananas, or processed banana chips from a vending machine).


----------



## bubbahead (Oct 19, 2007)

Wayne02 said:


> It's always fashionable to pick on the food stamp people, and it is so easy for all of us to judge their situations and behavior from on high atop our homesteading horse. If the food stamp people eat a banana rather than a ding dong they are doing better then 70% of the population already, much less organic and all that other business.
> 
> There is no doubt that there's abuse within the system to some extent, but here is to some of these folks who are able to make good use of the assistance during troubled times, and that they can get back on their feet without need for assistance (whether they are eating regular bananas, super duper organic bananas, or processed banana chips from a vending machine).


I vote this for most intelligent post in this thread!!! I think I love you....LOL


----------



## Siryet (Jun 29, 2002)

We, wife and are eligible for food stamps. Do we take them? NO.

*BUT* we are fortunate to be raising 90% of the food we consume and I thank God for that.

We made changes in our life that makes this possible, But God had His Hand in there.

Most people on food stamps, _*that are responsible people*_, buy the neccessities and healthy foods. and I have no quarrel with them.


Also some people never learned to cook any thing unless it is out of a box or package so they buy what they know. they aren't bad people just clueless as to proper cooking. But they should be responsible enough to learn and I am sure there are plenty that do learn No Quarrel there either.

More education should be offered on the school level about how to manage a buget, how to cook healthy, how to think and act responsibly, and maybe less on sports.

Now my 2 cents: People with cell phone service, in addition to regular service shouldn't be eligible, if they use cell instead of land line it should be basic service only, people with a cigarette habit shouldn't be eligible, People
with a active illegal drug habit shouldn't get them either.

The few ruin it for the many so to speak.

But ya know what, personal responsibility is not PC.


----------



## stranger (Feb 24, 2008)

I think anyone getting food stamps,welfare,SSI should have to pass a drug test,before i retired, I had to pass a randem test to keep my job to pay taxes to help pay for food stamps,welfare SSI ect.


----------



## TheMartianChick (May 26, 2009)

In my area, people on food stamps often get special vouchers that they can use at the farmers market. Also, many of the vendors at the farmers market accept the benefits cards for payment, so in our area, it is possible for someone to get organic food at a reasonable price while using foodstamps. As a matter of fact, most of the organic food at the farmers market is cheaper than the non-organic stuff at the grocery store.


----------



## Guest (Feb 9, 2010)

TheMartianChick said:


> As a matter of fact, most of the organic food at the farmers market is cheaper than the non-organic stuff at the grocery store.


The farmer's market here doesn't have organic stuff, and the non-organic stuff they do have is double in price what it is in the supermarket.


----------



## Ken Scharabok (May 11, 2002)

Related article:

http://www.slashfood.com/2010/08/20...ew-food-stamp-pilot-enlists-discount-produce/

USDA is trying an experiment of offering 30% off fresh produce to test families to see if it changes their eating habits. Apparently most of the monies will go for administration of the test program.


----------



## JMD_KS (Nov 20, 2007)

Do a search & see how much food stamps,WIC,free lunches,Medicaid & etc. are costing us,due to _illegal immigration_. :shocked:


----------



## willow_girl (Dec 7, 2002)

> While I have no problem with those like maidservant who are doing their best to make it possible to make ends meet getting help, I still have to wonder why the gummint has to be involved?


Because they're no dummies! They know that a man whose children are hungry is much more likely to take up arms against the powers that be. 

Bread and circuses generally suffice. :shrug:


----------



## hobbyfarmer (Oct 10, 2007)

maidservant said:


> Ok, as one of those who is recieving a meager share of food stamps, I do agree that too many on them buy junk. What do I buy? Milk, bread (from the dollar store), flour, rice, dried beans, vinegar, plus ingredients for making soap that could be considered food. I get $106 per month, and it does not get spread across the family. Now, with that being said, I am going to college full time on scholarships to earn at least one degree (I'm aiming for three) and in my area, I'm lucky to work for 2-4 hours per week. I do have a garden every year and I preserve as much as I can, although last years garden was quite pitiful. I also raise chickens and rabbits for eggs and meat. I know how to clean a deer and I'm not afraid to do it.
> 
> I guess my point is this, don't lump all food stamp recieving people into one group.


I don't mean to offend you maidservant and I hope you aren't hurt or insulted when I say this, but we used to raise rabbits and ended up selling them all because the price for feed increased dramatically and we could buy several pounds of meat for what we were feeding those rabbits every month. Also, we cut our flock of layers by more than half and turned to free ranging alone during the summer months to save money on feed. You may already be doing this - I don't want to assume anything....but your tag line says you keep pythons and some type of rats too. If you are receiving $106 per month from the gov't, then you are able to feed your animals with money others have to spend on groceries until their income increases. I understand the need, I guess I just wonder why you're keeping the animals to feed when you need assistance for groceries. I may well be waaayyyy wrong about this and I don't mind being corrected, but it's been my experience that raising your own meat doesn't really save money in the short term. Over time, sure, but if you're temporarily in a bind (like we all are sometimes) those feed (and possible vet) bills are the first thing to cut, imo. As far as hunting wild game, it saves in the long haul, too - but guns, ammo, and the hunting license and tags aren't free. There have been years before when DH couldn't hunt simply because we couldn't afford it. 

If 1 in 8 people are currently on assistance, and several of them are probably getting less than $200/mo for an entire family, how many of those families could be completely off the program all together if they could just make a few, small, and hopefully temporary changes to their monthly expenses?


----------



## Guest (Aug 22, 2010)

willow_girl said:


> Because they're no dummies! They know that a man whose children are hungry is much more likely to take up arms against the powers that be.
> 
> Bread and circuses generally suffice. :shrug:


History repeats itself.

_âThe budget should be balanced, the treasury should be refilled, public debt should be reduced, the arrogance of officialdom should be tempered and controlled, and the assistance to foreign lands should be curtailed lest Rome becomes bankrupt. People must again learn to work, instead of living on public assistanceâ. 
Marcus Tullius Cicero, Roman Empire, 55 BC_


----------



## pancho (Oct 23, 2006)

JMD_KS said:


> Do a search & see how much food stamps,WIC,free lunches,Medicaid & etc. are costing us,due to _illegal immigration_. :shocked:


Once again, illegals are not allowed by law to collect foodstamps or benefit from just about all gov, benefits program.
Your beef should be against those who give away our tax money.
If there wasn't people willing to give away our tax dollars we would not see the problem.


----------



## Scott SW Ohio (Sep 20, 2003)

Gee, I didn't realize that stranger had been banned. Seems I am oblivious until I see a posting from someone in an old thread like this one and the little "banned" statement appears under their name.

Is there someplace in HT that lists those who have been banned?


----------



## Guest (Aug 22, 2010)

pancho said:


> Once again, illegals are not allowed by law to collect foodstamps or benefit from just about all gov, benefits program.


The law also doesn't allow them to steal social security numbers and obtain a picture id by fraudulent means, but they do. 

They can get food stamps and other benefits when they present a social security card and picture id.


----------



## willow_girl (Dec 7, 2002)

> Is there someplace in HT that lists those who have been banned?


No, but I know where you can find most of them! LOL


----------



## LaManchaPaul (May 21, 2008)

ladycat said:


> The law also doesn't allow them to steal social security numbers and obtain a picture id by fraudulent means, but they do.
> 
> They can get food stamps and other benefits when they present a social security card and picture id.


If so, which members of your government allows that to happen?? Who is not doing a satisfactory job?


----------



## pancho (Oct 23, 2006)

ladycat said:


> The law also doesn't allow them to steal social security numbers and obtain a picture id by fraudulent means, but they do.
> 
> They can get food stamps and other benefits when they present a social security card and picture id.


It is the job of the person they present the fake papers to check if they are legal documents or stolen/fake. Why not put the blame where it belongs? Those that fail to do their job?


----------



## Gercarson (Nov 2, 2003)

pancho said:


> It is the job of the person they present the fake papers to check if they are legal documents or stolen/fake. Why not put the blame where it belongs? Those that fail to do their job?


This is it in a nutshell for most who defend these criminals. It's NOT THEIR fault you didn't catch them. It's YOUR fault that they do these criminal things. That makes it right and good for the illegal aliens - OMG - Yeah, put the blame where it belongs - this attitude will certainly make things right. Look for even more stupidity like this


----------



## pancho (Oct 23, 2006)

Gercarson said:


> This is it in a nutshell for most who defend these criminals. It's NOT THEIR fault you didn't catch them. It's YOUR fault that they do these criminal things. That makes it right and good for the illegal aliens - OMG - Yeah, put the blame where it belongs - this attitude will certainly make things right. Look for even more stupidity like this


Part of what you posted is correct. Those who break the law should be arrested. What makes you think the gov. employee fraudently giving away gov. benefits is not a crook. Seems like you have a different set of rules for different people. 

Before you decide what is stupid, can I ask a question.
One gov. employee can be responsible for giving away millions of dollars of gov. benefits. They do this by not doing their job. An illegal can collect very little, even if they sign up for ever gov. benefit there is, but a single gov. employee can give away millions.

Who do you think does the most damage? The illegal that can only benefit for very few benefits or the gov. employee who gives away millions of dollars of our tax money?

If you really were worried about illegals recieving benefits you would be much more concerned with the gov. employee that makes that possible.
But then again you might have a relative who is giving the money away.

You don't have to be a math genius to understand where the problem is. One illegal collecting benefits or a gov. employee giving away millions of dollars.

I am assuming you can count.


----------



## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

Deleted


----------



## poppy (Feb 21, 2008)

Bearfootfarm said:


> We keep trying to , but you pretend not to see it
> 
> The ILLEGALS are to blame


Bingo!! If they had not broken the law by coming here ILLEGALLY, they would not be committing fraud to receive benefits. They are CRIMINALS and it is time they were treated like it.


----------



## pancho (Oct 23, 2006)

poppy said:


> Bingo!! If they had not broken the law by coming here ILLEGALLY, they would not be committing fraud to receive benefits. They are CRIMINALS and it is time they were treated like it.


Poppy, are you another one that picks and chooses who you want to be criminals?

There are a few questions I have been trying to get answers for. So far no one has been able to answer.

How much money, in benefits, do you think a single illegal can recieve?
Do you know of any law that allows illegals to recieve gov. benefits?
Have you ever heard of the Welfare Reform Bill of 1996?
Can you tell me what paperwork a person needs to apply for benefits?
Does anyone ever check this paperwork?
Whose job is it to check to see if a person qualifies for benefits?

Sure would appreciate an answer to these questions. This has been bothering me for some time.


----------



## Laura Zone 5 (Jan 13, 2010)

primroselane said:


> That's 2,354 of our members.
> 
> The average monthly benefit was $133.60 per person in October.



I just picked up a second job.
DH works two jobs.
No welfare recipients here.
We spend about 200.00 a week in groceries. Probably less now that my boy has moved up north....So 150.00 a week now.

Does it grind my back side that SO MANY Americans, and NON Americans are cheating the system, getting food stamps when the don't NEED them or are too lazy to WORK? Does it irritate me to no end those who USE the system like it's life support instead of 'just a leg up'?

Yep.

But, in the end, I will not have to Answer for my deception. I did as I was told, paid my taxes, worked for my food, and Trusted. That is all I am responsible for.


----------



## willow_girl (Dec 7, 2002)

> But, in the end, I will not have to Answer for my deception. I did as I was told, paid my taxes, worked for my food, and Trusted. That is all I am responsible for.


That's kinda how I feel: fortunate to have always been able to work, advance myself and accumulate wealth. How many people here really think the life of a welfare mother is more fulfilling than theirs? That's a strange person to envy, if you ask me. Of course, in a nation that holds up uninterrupted leisure as the ideal state, perhaps it's understandable. :shrug:


----------



## LaManchaPaul (May 21, 2008)

Laura Zone 5 said:


> Does it grind my back side that SO MANY Americans, and NON Americans are cheating the system, getting food stamps when the don't NEED them or are too lazy to WORK? Does it irritate me to no end those who USE the system like it's life support instead of 'just a leg up'?
> 
> But, in the end, I will not have to Answer for my deception. I did as I was told, paid my taxes, worked for my food, and Trusted. *That is all I am responsible for*.


Laura, 
Do you feel no responsibility for improving the 'system' we have? If you vote, then you are responsible for the government's functions (or lack thereof). When one pays taxes, then one would want some say in how those monies are "correctly" distributed. Your taxes hire the individuals who enjoy the status of and benefits from their elected positions. They also hire the office workers who seem to have no accountability.

For examples, the bridge inspectors who 'sign off' paperwork without ever seeing a bridge's support; the children's social worker who never visits the child's home, but signs off the paperwork; the benefits' worker who never checks the legality or needs of the applicant, and assigns benefits. 

I feel a responsibility to PLACE THE BLAME where it belongs. It isn't the drivers' fault when the bridge collapses from the weight of his vehicle. etc....


----------



## Beeman (Dec 29, 2002)

pancho said:


> Part of what you posted is correct. Those who break the law should be arrested. What makes you think the gov. employee fraudently giving away gov. benefits is not a crook. Seems like you have a different set of rules for different people.
> 
> Before you decide what is stupid, can I ask a question.
> One gov. employee can be responsible for giving away millions of dollars of gov. benefits. They do this by not doing their job. An illegal can collect very little, even if they sign up for ever gov. benefit there is, but a single gov. employee can give away millions.
> ...


 Now Pancho you're on to something!

Now you're on to the friends neighbors and relatives part of our problems. The rules are in place but too much trouble to enforce. Enforcement means stopping the machine and calling a supervisor, basically more work to do the right thing. All of this is administered on a local level, not at an office in Washinton, DC.


----------



## Gercarson (Nov 2, 2003)

LaManchaPaul said:


> Laura,
> Do you feel no responsibility for improving the 'system' we have? If you vote, then you are responsible for the government's functions (or lack thereof). When one pays taxes, then one would want some say in how those monies are "correctly" distributed. Your taxes hire the individuals who enjoy the status of and benefits from their elected positions. They also hire the office workers who seem to have no accountability.
> 
> For examples, the bridge inspectors who 'sign off' paperwork without ever seeing a bridge's support; the children's social worker who never visits the child's home, but signs off the paperwork; the benefits' worker who never checks the legality or needs of the applicant, and assigns benefits.
> ...


I'm pretty sure that Laura's vote went to a conservative. How does that make HER responsible for the government's functions? I'll bet those who think like this feel that EVERYBODY voted for socialism. (We also find that those "taxes" will pay for the death of babies - who voted for that?) - So I feel a respnsibilty to PLACE THE BLAME where it DOES belong on the backs of the liberals who keep "voting" to steal from the conservatives and "redistribute" the plunder to those who play the game. Now just HOW did YOU vote? I'm thinking it was for those individuals who ENJOY THE STATUS OF THEIR ELECTED POSITIONS - that YOU put there so YOU could also enjoy their "status".


----------



## Gercarson (Nov 2, 2003)

pancho said:


> Part of what you posted is correct. Those who break the law should be arrested. What makes you think the gov. employee fraudently giving away gov. benefits is not a crook. Seems like you have a different set of rules for different people.
> 
> Before you decide what is stupid, can I ask a question.
> One gov. employee can be responsible for giving away millions of dollars of gov. benefits. They do this by not doing their job. An illegal can collect very little, even if they sign up for ever gov. benefit there is, but a single gov. employee can give away millions.
> ...


All your constant defense - if you can call it that - does not make illegal aliens anything other than thieves, cannibals and leeches. They are criminals no matter how you do the math. Apparently you have to think like an illegal alien to say you can lie and cheat and decieve and ... if they fall for it - hey man, it's not MY fault. These people are the dregs of the worlds society in that they do not produce, but consume another person's life. That must be the "benefits" you're referring to.


----------



## poppy (Feb 21, 2008)

pancho said:


> Poppy, are you another one that picks and chooses who you want to be criminals?
> 
> There are a few questions I have been trying to get answers for. So far no one has been able to answer.
> 
> ...


Illegals are criminal by definition. With the forged documents they have, they can apply for any benefit. They may or may not successfully get them. They can also move in with stupid American women and consume benefits she is entitled to for her kids. You are talking about government employees checking paperwork. Yea, government employees are known for their dedication to duty. Look up how much illegals are costing many states in medical, education, law enforcement, etc. and get back to me.


----------



## pancho (Oct 23, 2006)

Gercarson said:


> All your constant defense - if you can call it that - does not make illegal aliens anything other than thieves, cannibals and leeches. They are criminals no matter how you do the math. Apparently you have to think like an illegal alien to say you can lie and cheat and decieve and ... if they fall for it - hey man, it's not MY fault. These people are the dregs of the worlds society in that they do not produce, but consume another person's life. That must be the "benefits" you're referring to.


I am not trying to defend the illegals. I am trying to get people to see where the majority of the fault lays. How the problem could partially be solved. There will always be some that can scam the system, illegals and legals. But what we are talking about is the wide spread distribution of our tax money by those we trust and pay to protect it.

An illegal can only recieve a certain amount of benefits. If the illegal signs up for every gov. benefit there is that illegal can only recieve a certain amount of benefits. It is only one illegal recieving benefits.
Now, the gov. employee who decided to qualify that illegal for benefits is another thing. That single illegal they qualified might not cost the gov. that much. Now multiply that by the number of illegals they have qualified before and will in the future.
Now think about how much we spend trying to stop that one illegal from collecting benefits. Has anyone ever calculated the cost that one gov. employee cost us? Has anyone given any thought that they might be able to stop that one illegal from collecting benefits but what about all of the others that collect benefits because of this one gov. employee?
Why not stop that gov. employee from giving away our tax dollars. Seems like a lot easier job than looking for illegals. Just stop this one person and we won't have the continuing problem of illegals collecting benefits.

On a slightly different note. Do you know how much we spend each year to protect our southern border? If I was in charge of the southern border and I wanted to contract you to protect one foot, 12 inches, of the border, what would you charge? Remember it is just 12 inches. I am hiring you to protect that 12 inches. What would you think would be a reasonable prive to pay?


----------



## pancho (Oct 23, 2006)

poppy said:


> Illegals are criminal by definition. With the forged documents they have, they can apply for any benefit. They may or may not successfully get them. They can also move in with stupid American women and consume benefits she is entitled to for her kids. You are talking about government employees checking paperwork. Yea, government employees are known for their dedication to duty. Look up how much illegals are costing many states in medical, education, law enforcement, etc. and get back to me.


Poppy could you please answer the question I asked above?
What I find common in most people who complain about illegals is they want to blame every problem in the U.S. on one certain group. Just so happens that group can do little to defend themselves. 

Please answer the questions above and it will give you an insight on how much illegals are costing many states in medical, education, law enforcement, etc.

If you cannot answer the question I will assume you belong to that group of people who find pleasure in harrassing people who are defenseless. I can understand that is quite a bit easier than stepping up like a man and putting the blame where it should be. What have you decided to be, a man, or one who takes advantage of the defenseless?


----------



## poppy (Feb 21, 2008)

pancho said:


> Poppy could you please answer the question I asked above?
> What I find common in most people who complain about illegals is they want to blame every problem in the U.S. on one certain group. Just so happens that group can do little to defend themselves.
> 
> Please answer the questions above and it will give you an insight on how much illegals are costing many states in medical, education, law enforcement, etc.
> ...


No one said they cause all the problems but they sure are causing problems where they gather in large numbers. Look at the drain on resources in many cities and states. They are not defenseless at all. They have a Mexican ( and other countries as well ) government to protect them if they stay where they belong. How many countries on earth can you just walk into unannounced and expect to not be arrested and removed?


----------



## pancho (Oct 23, 2006)

poppy said:


> No one said they cause all the problems but they sure are causing problems where they gather in large numbers. Look at the drain on resources in many cities and states. They are not defenseless at all. They have a Mexican ( and other countries as well ) government to protect them if they stay where they belong. How many countries on earth can you just walk into unannounced and expect to not be arrested and removed?


You still failed to answer the questions. Is it you have no idea what you are talking about or afraid to learn the truth?

How can they be a drain? Do they use up all of the water? Do they breathe more than their share of the air?

If you would look and answer the questions you will see they can't possibly take more than we are willing to give. If a person gives you something why should another person care? In reality you do not care, you just like to whine and complain.

I have walked into several other countries unannounced including those on our north and south border. Also several European countries. Never was arrested or removed. Spent some time enjoying the other countries also, none of those over night visits.

Can you answer the questions?


----------



## LaManchaPaul (May 21, 2008)

Gercarson said:


> All your constant defense - if you can call it that - does not make illegal aliens anything other than thieves, cannibals and leeches. They are criminals no matter how you do the math. Apparently you have to think like an illegal alien to say you can lie and cheat and decieve and ... if they fall for it - hey man, it's not MY fault. These people are the dregs of the worlds society in that they do not produce, but consume another person's life. That must be the "benefits" you're referring to.


Ignorance. Sincere, sheer and blatant ignorance. 
Thank goodness for people with patience and deplomacy like Pancho.

While working long ago, a man told an incredibly incompetent person, "You are so stupid that you don't know it; someone has to tell you that your are stupid because you are too stupid to know it." or something like that.

Gercarson, you are dangerous.

"Nothing in the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity." 
â Martin Luther King Jr


----------



## pancho (Oct 23, 2006)

LaManchaPaul said:


> Ignorance. Sincere, sheer and blatant ignorance.
> Thank goodness for people with patience and deplomacy like Pancho.
> 
> While working long ago, a man told an incredibly incompetent person, "You are so stupid that you don't know it; someone has to tell you that your are stupid because you are too stupid to know it." or something like that.
> ...


Thanks.

I used to be pretty much the same way. A few years ago I would have been one of the gang making all the wild statements. Then one day a man I respected very much asked me why I didn't take some time to learn a little more about what I was talking about. First it came as a surprise because I thought everyone already knew what we were talking about. They all agreed with me.
I decided to show the man I knew what I was talking about. Turns out I didn't even have a suspicion about what I was saying.

I listed 6 little questions. So far not a single one of those who know so much about the illegals have answered a single one. I can't understand why they are so hard to answer. The questions are simple. No trick questions.
Well really they all are trick questions. To answer them you will have to learn a little something about the conservation. If you learn a little about the conservation there wouldn't be any reason to ask the questions.


----------



## JuliaAnn (Dec 7, 2004)

And here is #4 on the liberal's playlist.... intellectual dishonesty. In other words, if you can''t be persuaded to agree with their viewpoint, that alone is proof you're an uninformed idiot. It's how they try to denigrate and destroy those who don't agree with them--they first insult you (ad hominem attack), and if that doesn't work, they obfuscate (the red herring to draw attention away from the original topic) and if that still doesn't work they begin to backpeal (plausible deniability) and then if all else fails, tell you that because you don't agree with them, you are too stupid, uneducated, uniformed etc. to understand the issue (intellectual dishonesty, sophistry, eletism). Read Poncho's posts, and you will see all these are there, from the personal insult down to the intellectual dishonesty. 

This discredits him very much.

It's a very common pattern of trying to discredit those who disagree with them. You can sit back and tick them off, one by one. Try it sometime, when you hear a liberal or a progressive or whatever they are called these days when they are trying to persuade.


----------



## hobbyfarmer (Oct 10, 2007)

pancho said:


> Thanks.
> 
> To answer them you will have to learn a little something about the conservation. If you learn a little about the conservation there wouldn't be any reason to ask the questions.


Huh? The conservation of what?


----------



## wyld thang (Nov 16, 2005)

so food stamps, my family would definately qualify. BUT as a small business owner they consider our GROSS business income as our family income--um, right, we have no payroll, rent, insurance, supplies, FREAKIN STATE, COUNTY, IRS, SS taxes to pay out of that???????? 

we(four) spend 2/3 of what a family of four are given in food stamps, about $500 in our state. $500 dollars a month would be a godsend. we are sucking wind bad, this producer is grinding to a halt.


----------



## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

> I listed 6 little questions. So far not a single one of those who know so much about the illegals have answered a single one.


You're questions have been answered multiple times, and yet you keep repeating the same lines, while ignoring reality

If you're not willing to accept facts, then you'll never be satisfied with any answer that doesn't match your fantasy


----------



## LaManchaPaul (May 21, 2008)

JuliaAnn said:


> And here is #4 on the liberal's playlist.... *intellectual dishonesty*. In other words, if you can''t be persuaded to agree with their viewpoint, that alone is proof you're an uninformed idiot. It's how they try to denigrate and destroy those who don't agree with them--they first insult you (ad hominem attack), and if that doesn't work, they obfuscate (the red herring to draw attention away from the original topic) and if that still doesn't work they begin to backpeal (plausible deniability) and then if all else fails, tell you that because you don't agree with them, you are too stupid, uneducated, uniformed etc. to understand the issue (intellectual dishonesty, sophistry, eletism). Read Poncho's posts, and you will see all these are there, from the personal insult down to the intellectual dishonesty.
> 
> This discredits him very much.
> 
> It's a very common pattern of trying to discredit those who disagree with them. You can sit back and tick them off, one by one. Try it sometime, when you hear a liberal or a progressive or whatever they are called these days when they are trying to persuade.


Quote from Gercarson:
"All your constant defense - if you can call it that - does not make illegal aliens anything other than thieves, cannibals and leeches. They are criminals no matter how you do the math. Apparently you have to think like an illegal alien to say you can lie and cheat and decieve and ... if they fall for it - hey man, it's not MY fault. *These people are the dregs of the worlds society *in that they do not produce, but consume another person's life. That must be the "benefits" you're referring to."

JuliaAnn, Why don't you pick just one of the questions posed by Pancho? TRY the very last one. 

I actually believed as you two currently believe. However, that changed with the first group of people (17) I met living in a small double-wide trailer in the middle of a cotton field. It was filled with cockroaches (really really full) no indoor bathroom, no screens, a/c but two stoves. 

I didn't speak Spanish at that time, but used a dictionary to communicate. I visited them in the onion fields and pine straw fields. They worked from daylight to dark. After dark, they would create the strings for the next day's work, eat and prepare the meals for tomorrow - which was usually tortillas with sauce. Among them were: a former manager for Western Union, a construction company owner, a school teacher, a cab driver and his young son, and various relatives of all. Only one other trailer singlewide and it was full of documented workers from Guatemala.

I have met many, many (oh, did I say many) undocumented so I take great offense to my friends being called dregs by someone who is completely clueless and fits the descriptions by you above.

I know that neither of you care about this little reality, but perhaps some others will realize where the intellectual dishonesty really lies. 

It has been ten years and many are still my friends, along with many others and from different countires. AND guess what... We are all Americans.


----------



## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

> It has been ten years and many are still my friends, along with many others and from different countires. AND guess what... We are all Americans


If they are here ILLEGALLY (not "undocumented", but ILLEGAL), they are *NOT* Americans.
They are ILLEGAL ALIENS



> realize where the *intellectual dishonesty *really lies.


It's plain to see who is dishonest with themselves


----------



## pancho (Oct 23, 2006)

Bearfootfarm said:


> You're questions have been answered multiple times, and yet you keep repeating the same lines, while ignoring reality
> 
> If you're not willing to accept facts, then you'll never be satisfied with any answer that doesn't match your fantasy


Would you give me the answers again. I can't find them anywhere.
6 simple questions. No answers.


----------



## pancho (Oct 23, 2006)

JuliaAnn said:


> And here is #4 on the liberal's playlist.... intellectual dishonesty. In other words, if you can''t be persuaded to agree with their viewpoint, that alone is proof you're an uninformed idiot. It's how they try to denigrate and destroy those who don't agree with them--they first insult you (ad hominem attack), and if that doesn't work, they obfuscate (the red herring to draw attention away from the original topic) and if that still doesn't work they begin to backpeal (plausible deniability) and then if all else fails, tell you that because you don't agree with them, you are too stupid, uneducated, uniformed etc. to understand the issue (intellectual dishonesty, sophistry, eletism). Read Poncho's posts, and you will see all these are there, from the personal insult down to the intellectual dishonesty.
> 
> This discredits him very much.
> 
> It's a very common pattern of trying to discredit those who disagree with them. You can sit back and tick them off, one by one. Try it sometime, when you hear a liberal or a progressive or whatever they are called these days when they are trying to persuade.


JuliaAnn, would you like to answer the questions? I know I have asked before and I have been told they were answered but I just can't find the answers anywhere on this forum. It would be a real favor to me if you could answer them.

Sorry, I don't understand some of the big words you posted. Don't know if I should thank you or feel insulted.

How much money, in benefits, do you think a single illegal can recieve?
Do you know of any law that allows illegals to recieve gov. benefits?
Have you ever heard of the Welfare Reform Bill of 1996?
Can you tell me what paperwork a person needs to apply for benefits?
Does anyone ever check this paperwork?
Whose job is it to check to see if a person qualifies for benefits?

Thought I would list them again.
Anyone know the answers?


----------



## Oggie (May 29, 2003)

I don't understand.

Why would anyone want to mail food?


----------



## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

> Would you give me the answers again. I can't find them anywhere


If you're not willing to accept facts, then you'll never be satisfied with any answer that doesn't match your fantasy



> 6 simple questions. No answers


----------



## pancho (Oct 23, 2006)

Bearfootfarm said:


> If you're not willing to accept facts, then you'll never be satisfied with any answer that doesn't match your fantasy


It would seem like if you had ever answered the questions you could remember when and where. All I ask is where were they answered and what were the answers.

It isn't a matter if I am satisfied. That isn't important. Maybe if you will answer the questions others will be satisfied. That should be enough reason for you to answer. You can show everyone how badly I am mistaken. You can prove you are correct and I am wrong. It wouldn't be the first time I have been proven wrong and won't be the last.

6 little questions and still not a single answer.


----------



## Laura Zone 5 (Jan 13, 2010)

LaManchaPaul said:


> Laura,
> Do you feel no responsibility for improving the 'system' we have?


I vote. My men and women in The United States Military deserve that respect for what they do: secure my RIGHT to vote.
The candidates that I had to choose from were....sketchy at best, but I held my nose and pulled the R, based only on McCain's Military backround.
I did my part. I voted for those who "said" they were against big government, and for private sector.



> If you vote, then you are responsible for the government's functions (or lack thereof).


Wrong. 



> When one pays taxes, then one would want some say in how those monies are "correctly" distributed. Your taxes hire the individuals who enjoy the status of and benefits from their elected positions. They also hire the office workers who seem to have no accountability.


I am Commanded by God to pay my taxes. I am following His Word. What the "corrupt" ones in office DO with that money, is THEIR responsibility before God. I submit to One Higher than 'the man'.



> For examples, the bridge inspectors who 'sign off' paperwork without ever seeing a bridge's support; the children's social worker who never visits the child's home, but signs off the paperwork; the benefits' worker who never checks the legality or needs of the applicant, and assigns benefits.


And the inspector will answer for his deception.
And the social worker will answer for her deception.
And the benefit worker will answer for his deception.

I am Commanded to follow God's Commands.....and when I pay "czar" I have obeyed the Lord. Now, when "czar" is unfair / deceptive with those monies, HE / SHE will answer for THEIR disobedience.




> I feel a responsibility to PLACE THE BLAME where it belongs. It isn't the drivers' fault when the bridge collapses from the weight of his vehicle. etc....


Correct.
When the bridge falls, it is the inspectors fault for deceiving. 
LaMancha Paul....I answer to God. His Word gives me all the instructions that I need. If I follow Him, I will fall under His Protection. Which is better than ANY welfare program out there.
Non-Believers don't understand this, ridicule this, and even hate because of this....but again.
That's not MY responsibility.

My way of improving the "system"?
I am home schooling my children. I have taught them right from wrong. I have shown them by example, and by their own first hand experience that "if you do not work, you do not eat". I have taught them to respect their elders, love their country, but above all....obey The Lord. So I am sending out 3 well raised children for the next generation.
For me personally?
I work 2 jobs. I pay my bills. I don't suck off the system. I don't walk around with a sense of 'entitlement'. I get what I earn, and I earn what I work for. 
And above all, I trust the Lord with all my heart, and I lean not on my own understanding...
I put no faith in politics. none.

So I did / do my part.
And God will Judge me accordingly. And I am ok with that.


----------



## Gercarson (Nov 2, 2003)

LaManchaPaul said:


> Quote from Gercarson:
> "All your constant defense - if you can call it that - does not make illegal aliens anything other than thieves, cannibals and leeches. They are criminals no matter how you do the math. Apparently you have to think like an illegal alien to say you can lie and cheat and decieve and ... if they fall for it - hey man, it's not MY fault. *These people are the dregs of the worlds society *in that they do not produce, but consume another person's life. That must be the "benefits" you're referring to."


These are people who have trashed and abused their own countries and have not even attempted to rectify the messes that they have made. They "migrate" to "other" countries to - not better themselves - but to live off the hosts of that country. These people are the dregs of the world's society and what they do is fill their own immediate needs. One can look for and then dismiss attempts to find any societal redeeming quality in the fungi that consumes its host. The old saying that one should not defecate where one sleeps misses the mark by miles - these criminal "illegal aliens" do just that - and at American's door steps. Then accuse the hosts that they live off as being the real problem because "they didn't catch me" - yep, if I am dangerous - I would have to deem those who defend these cannibals and leeches as murderous. As America sinks deeper and deeper into a socialist, third world environment - I have to say it's good to be dangerous and I know that there must be others who do not feel compelled to bow to the coercion of those who LET IT HAPPEN AND CALL US NAMES. I am tired of being the "benefits" - it's now time to take care of America and being eaten alive ain't doing it.


----------



## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

> It would seem like if you had ever answered the questions *you could remember *when and where.


I do remember


----------



## pancho (Oct 23, 2006)

Bearfootfarm said:


> I do remember


Please let me know where.
Or we can go down the list one by one.
Since I have asked several times for the answers but you still can't find them either lets just start with the first one.

How much money, in benefits, do you think one single illegal can recieve?

Just one answer at a time. Real easy, show everyone your answers.


----------



## willow_girl (Dec 7, 2002)

> These are people who have trashed and abused their own countries and have not even attempted to rectify the messes that they have made. They "migrate" to "other" countries to - not better themselves - but to live off the hosts of that country. These people are the dregs of the world's society and what they do is fill their own immediate needs.


The great irony is that the same may have been said of your grandparents or great-great-grandparents (whichever generation first emigrated to U.S. soil). Even if they came here legally (because laws were less strict in the past), they probably were viewed with disdain by native-born Americans, particularly if they came from places like Eastern Europe, Ireland, Italy, or the Far East.


----------



## LaManchaPaul (May 21, 2008)

Laura Zone 5 said:


> I vote. My men and women in The United States Military deserve that respect for what they do: secure my RIGHT to vote.
> The candidates that I had to choose from were....sketchy at best, but I held my nose and pulled the R, based only on McCain's Military backround.
> I did my part. I voted for those who "said" they were against big government, and for private sector.
> 
> ...


"I answer to God"
"I am commanded by God"
"He protects me"
"God will judge me"
GOD IS GREAT!!!

Shockingly familiar cries.

Why would or how could one ignore the teachings of love and understanding by Jesus Christ who bestowed grace to the whole world? This is what non-believers who sanctimoniously claim Christianity don't understand. It is easy to spout some catch phrases when hate is spewed. It is extremely difficult to accept with understanding, Christâs teachings.

Christianity is not hate. Muslim is not hate. But there are haters who claim to be religious. 

The undocumented people I know are noble and honest, and unworthy of the judgments passed along in this thread. Their children are being taught in public school where by law, tolerence of others is a part of everyday teachings.


----------



## LaManchaPaul (May 21, 2008)

Gercarson said:


> *These are people *who have trashed and abused their own countries and have not even attempted to rectify the messes that they have made. They "migrate" to "other" countries to - not better themselves - but to live off the hosts of that country. These people are the dregs of the world's society and what they do is fill their own immediate needs. One can look for and then dismiss attempts to find any societal redeeming quality in the fungi that consumes its host. The old saying that one should not defecate where one sleeps misses the mark by miles - these criminal "illegal aliens" do just that - and at American's door steps. Then accuse the hosts that they live off as being the real problem because "they didn't catch me" - yep, if I am dangerous - I would have to deem those who defend these cannibals and leeches as murderous. As America sinks deeper and deeper into a socialist, third world environment - I have to say it's good to be dangerous and I know that there must be others who do not feel compelled to bow to the coercion of those who LET IT HAPPEN AND CALL US NAMES. I am tired of being the "benefits" - it's now time to take care of America and being eaten alive ain't doing it.


Could you tell us how many of "these people" or "illegal aliens" that you actually know? 

And you are dangerous. The United States is not sinking. Even though you don't get the postings on this thread, you "let it happen." Now you want to blame others.

:cowboy:


----------



## edcopp (Oct 9, 2004)

Things will change drastically when we run out of food, but still have plenty of open mouths.


----------



## Toads tool (Jun 7, 2007)

I think the "Illegals" are a necessity.
Around here, the locals won't pull the government teet out their mouths to do labor that the "illegals" will do. 
The teet is too sweet.
If you want cheap food then you have to have cheap labor. 
Are people willing to pay 20-30% more for their bacon let alone everything else we eat? Enough to get these jobs paying more than Uncle Sam?

I don't believe the problem lies in Illegals getting any Government funds or help in such matters. The problem lies in how much money gets sent out of country by these workers. 

I will say though that the men I've seen work and have worked beside that were considered illegals are the hardest working men I've ever been around.


----------



## pancho (Oct 23, 2006)

Still waiting for anyone to answer the questions. I am not picky, I will listen to anyone.
I am really curious how others would answer.

It looks like the majority of people really do not know very much about illegals. I can understand if the only exposure many have to illegals is the media. It is easy to understand why they feel as they do. If you have never been around illegals, listen to the media, believe the politicians, never do any research, and really don't want to learn the truth I can see why you believe the way you do.
Just do some reading and thinking. It might not change your thinking in any way but you might get a better understanding of the true problem.


----------



## hobbyfarmer (Oct 10, 2007)

pancho said:


> Still waiting for anyone to answer the questions. I am not picky, I will listen to anyone.
> I am really curious how others would answer.
> 
> It looks like the majority of people really do not know very much about illegals.


Some of us probably know more than you give us credit for. My father worked construction when I was a teen and when he was having trouble finding work during the winter months in KY, we moved to South Florida to be near my mom's family. From rural KY to Miami would have been culture shock enough, I suppose, but on top of the obvious differences, the 4 of us kids all went to different schools within a few blocks of each other and being the oldest, I had to make the rounds to the other two schools every morning and every afternoon so my younger siblings could wait and walk with me the 6 blocks back to our house. You can NOT believe the gang activity in that area 25 years ago. I didn't even know at the time that those men were illegals. Some of the other parents on our street got together once after a young girl was brutally raped and had a meeting with the police. Sort of a neighborhood watch thing. The police told us all that they couldn't protect us because the gang members and their families were here illegally and there was no documentation on anybody - since they had no driver's license, no permanent homes, no place of employment it was impossible to identify anyone unless the victims knew their names. The cops patrolled outside the schools every morning and afternoon but the gangs would scatter like roaches for a few minutes and then be right back in place. The boys were all prime candidates for buying or selling drugs and the girls were nothing more than a sexual thing. Girls as young as 10 and 12 had to worry constantly about being caught alone within blocks of their own homes! Parents had to work - this was a lower class neighborhood. None of us had any money but everything had to be locked up tight with iron grates over the doors and windows. Our pathetic little house with nothing at all of value in it, was broken into and spray painted - just DESTROYED- for no reason other than it was there unattended at the time. 

That was 25 years ago and I can't even imagine what that area must be like today. I've been back in KY for nearly 20 years now and I see even rural areas here being swallowed up by illegals. My brother was a deputy in a neighboring county where a land owner had to set fire to his own property because he couldn't keep the Mexicans that are here to work at the Perdue factory from living in an abandoned home on his family farm. He would run them out, threaten them, call the cops, and they would all leave - until everyone was gone. Then back they came- families in tow - to live in the house just because it was there. They don't respect anything. Once they show by their own actions that they are willing to break the law to be here, none of our laws matter to them. 

I KNOW they aren't ALL horrible criminals but we can't force Americans (natural born or naturalized) to pay the costs in gang violence and criminal activity so that a few honest illegals can avoid the inconvenience of legal immigration. If the illegals you know so well are such fine people, why are they ignoring our nation's laws EVERY day to be here? It's fine for them to pick and choose which laws they follow until it's your daughter beaten and raped by a gang or your home they take over...No thank you.


----------



## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

> Please let me know where.


The answer to that is obvious.
You're talking in circles because admitting the truth would show you're wrong


----------



## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

> *Their children are being taught in public school *where by law, tolerence of others is a part of everyday teachings.


Public school paid for by LEGAL Americans
Just another form of "welfare" for ILLEGALS


----------



## hobbyfarmer (Oct 10, 2007)

Before you start screaming that the illegals are the only ones wanting to work, let me make it clear that the Perdue plant near us promised beau-coup jobs when they wanted to build here but then filled their positions with mostly illegal workers in an effort to line their own pockets. Those darn lazy Americans in the community (and several others like it) fought tooth and nail to get those jobs.


http://attorneyinimmigration.com/discussion/perdue-farms-sued-over-issue-of-hiring-illegal-aliens

http://www.fosterpc.com/media/perdu...personnel-for-alleged-immigration-violations/


----------



## pancho (Oct 23, 2006)

hobbyfarmer said:


> Some of us probably know more than you give us credit for. My father worked construction when I was a teen and when he was having trouble finding work during the winter months in KY, we moved to South Florida to be near my mom's family. From rural KY to Miami would have been culture shock enough, I suppose, but on top of the obvious differences, the 4 of us kids all went to different schools within a few blocks of each other and being the oldest, I had to make the rounds to the other two schools every morning and every afternoon so my younger siblings could wait and walk with me the 6 blocks back to our house. You can NOT believe the gang activity in that area 25 years ago. I didn't even know at the time that those men were illegals. Some of the other parents on our street got together once after a young girl was brutally raped and had a meeting with the police. Sort of a neighborhood watch thing. The police told us all that they couldn't protect us because the gang members and their families were here illegally and there was no documentation on anybody - since they had no driver's license, no permanent homes, no place of employment it was impossible to identify anyone unless the victims knew their names. The cops patrolled outside the schools every morning and afternoon but the gangs would scatter like roaches for a few minutes and then be right back in place. The boys were all prime candidates for buying or selling drugs and the girls were nothing more than a sexual thing. Girls as young as 10 and 12 had to worry constantly about being caught alone within blocks of their own homes! Parents had to work - this was a lower class neighborhood. None of us had any money but everything had to be locked up tight with iron grates over the doors and windows. Our pathetic little house with nothing at all of value in it, was broken into and spray painted - just DESTROYED- for no reason other than it was there unattended at the time.
> 
> That was 25 years ago and I can't even imagine what that area must be like today. I've been back in KY for nearly 20 years now and I see even rural areas here being swallowed up by illegals. My brother was a deputy in a neighboring county where a land owner had to set fire to his own property because he couldn't keep the Mexicans that are here to work at the Perdue factory from living in an abandoned home on his family farm. He would run them out, threaten them, call the cops, and they would all leave - until everyone was gone. Then back they came- families in tow - to live in the house just because it was there. They don't respect anything. Once they show by their own actions that they are willing to break the law to be here, none of our laws matter to them.
> 
> I KNOW they aren't ALL horrible criminals but we can't force Americans (natural born or naturalized) to pay the costs in gang violence and criminal activity so that a few honest illegals can avoid the inconvenience of legal immigration. If the illegals you know so well are such fine people, why are they ignoring our nation's laws EVERY day to be here? It's fine for them to pick and choose which laws they follow until it's your daughter beaten and raped by a gang or your home they take over...No thank you.


I canunderstan much of what you said.

I work in Jackson, Ms. Jackson has one of the highest crime rates of any city in the U.S. The last mayor of Jackson even took the police swat van, loaded it down with ganf members, and went around tearing down people's houises just because they didn't like him. He would open the door of the swat van and hand out sledge hammers to the gang members and point out the house he wanted destroyed.
Those who openly opposed him could expect a visit from the swat van. He would come to their door, complete with bullet proof vest, shotgun, police dog, and with a police escort and beat on their door and yell obsenities.

Here we have little to worry about with the illegals. They will work. Our worry is the citizens. Many stores have to pay armed guards to protect their customers. People are driving through the drive thru at local fast food places and robbing then. Then they will call back and complain how they didn't get enough money. They will actually schedule a time to come back to rob the place, and show up on time.

It is getting bad everywhere. We need to find a way to stop this from happening. What is easy for me to see is many of the problem with illegals can be solved immediately.
If the police will not arrest a criminal get rid of them and get someone who will.
Since the law plainly states illegals are not qualified for any gov. sponsored benefits except for schooling and emergency medical aid, get rid of those who continue to give it to them. Replace them with a person who will obey the law.

There are good people and bad people of every race, color, and belief.
A lot of our problems can be stopped immediately if we want. We just have to decide that we want it to stop and act accordingly.


----------



## pancho (Oct 23, 2006)

Bearfootfarm said:


> The answer to that is obvious.
> You're talking in circles because admitting the truth would show you're wrong


You still refuse to answer a single question. Again how about the first one. You seem to find plenty of time to post, cry, whine, and complain. Why not use a fraction of that time to answer a simple question?


----------



## pancho (Oct 23, 2006)

Bearfootfarm said:


> Public school paid for by LEGAL Americans
> Just another form of "welfare" for ILLEGALS


Public school and emergency medical care is the only 2 benefits I know of the law allows illegals to recieve. You seem to think they benefit from others.
Please show me where the law allows this.
I will agree schooling is a cost to us. Emergency medical care is a cost to us. Anything else they recieve is a gift. I don't want to give the gift but the people in charge of checking qualifications should do their job.


----------



## pancho (Oct 23, 2006)

hobbyfarmer said:


> Before you start screaming that the illegals are the only ones wanting to work, let me make it clear that the Perdue plant near us promised beau-coup jobs when they wanted to build here but then filled their positions with mostly illegal workers in an effort to line their own pockets. Those darn lazy Americans in the community (and several others like it) fought tooth and nail to get those jobs.
> 
> 
> http://attorneyinimmigration.com/discussion/perdue-farms-sued-over-issue-of-hiring-illegal-aliens
> ...


Where I live there are many poultry farms. It is one of the biggest money makers in agriculture in the state.
Recently one of the slaughter houses was raided. Several hundred people were arrested. Later it was found out there were many illegals but also arrested were many legals. 
The plants around here are between a rock and a hard place. When they have job openings they advertise them. People who are hired have to have documentation. These papers are sent in according to the law but the results may not be back for 6-9 months. According to the laws a company has to check to see if the employee made a mistake on their papers. If they did, and all say they did, the process is started all over again. It is another 6-9 months before those papers are checked and the results sent back.

We just need to have a better way of telling a legal from an illegal.


----------



## Stephen in SOKY (Jun 6, 2006)

Perhaps if we weren't totally inundated with illegals, those checking records could do a more thorough job in a more timely manner.


----------



## Dutchie (Mar 14, 2003)

Gercarson said:


> I'm pretty sure that Laura's vote went to a conservative. How does that make HER responsible for the government's functions? I'll bet those who think like this feel that EVERYBODY voted for socialism. (We also find that those "taxes" will pay for the death of babies - who voted for that?) - So I feel a respnsibilty to PLACE THE BLAME where it DOES belong on the backs of the liberals who keep "voting" to steal from the conservatives and "redistribute" the plunder to those who play the game. Now just HOW did YOU vote? I'm thinking it was for those individuals who ENJOY THE STATUS OF THEIR ELECTED POSITIONS - that YOU put there so YOU could also enjoy their "status".



You mean the abuses of the system just started with the current Administration??


----------



## Dutchie (Mar 14, 2003)

Bearfootfarm said:


> Public school paid for by LEGAL Americans
> Just another form of "welfare" for ILLEGALS


Are you aware that those illegals with their fake social security numbers have taxes taken out just like the rest of us? The only difference is that, because their SS# is fake, they can't get anything back from the system.


----------



## pancho (Oct 23, 2006)

Stephen in SOKY said:


> Perhaps if we weren't totally inundated with illegals, those checking records could do a more thorough job in a more timely manner.


Then you can look at in another way. If we were better at checking records we would not be inundated in the first place.


----------



## sammyd (Mar 11, 2007)

> I'm pretty sure that Laura's vote went to a conservative.


Who signed a bill that granted amnesty to almost 2 million undocumented workers in 1986.....

This constant squabble of left and right/liberal and conservative is getting quite old.


----------



## pancho (Oct 23, 2006)

Dutchie said:


> Are you aware that those illegals with their fake social security numbers have taxes taken out just like the rest of us? The only difference is that, because their SS# is fake, they can't get anything back from the system.


I have already told them all about the SSA Suspense File. The % of illegals paying into the system, according to the SSA. And the Immigration Reform and Control Act of 1986.

Don't know what the problem is with reading them and trying to understand them. It might have something to do with where they are placing 100% of the blame. If they would check into anything they might have to drop that % a bit.


----------



## LaManchaPaul (May 21, 2008)

Bearfootfarm said:


> Public school paid for by LEGAL Americans
> Just another form of "*welfare*" for ILLEGALS


I know, I know. You see so much that is welfare. 

Others see attendance at school as the law.


----------



## LaManchaPaul (May 21, 2008)

Stephen in SOKY said:


> Perhaps if we weren't totally inundated with illegals, those checking records could do a more thorough job in a more timely manner.


Isn't that the worn-out excuse for gov. workers not doing their jobs?
bridge inspectors
family&children agents
ICE


----------



## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

> Others see attendance at school as the law.


That has nothing to do with who PAYS for it
Why should ILLEGALS get a free education at our expense?


----------



## hobbyfarmer (Oct 10, 2007)

Why do you keep demanding that the social workers and personnel employees work harder to "do their jobs" while you don't say a thing about the government enforcing immigration laws???? You say nothing about illegals breaking laws????

We have laws on the book to prevent illegal immigration - so that our welfare workers (social workers) and our citizens (personnel/ human resource employees) shouldn't have to bear the burden of verifying and weeding out all those people who are willing to lie, cheat, and steal to gain access to jobs and benefits which belong to American citizens (again....natural born or naturalized)....You want SOMEONE to be held accountable - just not the illegals, themselves. Or the government which has turned a deaf ear to the states pushing for immigration enforcement.


----------



## Gercarson (Nov 2, 2003)

hobbyfarmer said:


> Why do you keep demanding that the social workers and personnel employees work harder to "do their jobs" while you don't say a thing about the government enforcing immigration laws???? You say nothing about illegals breaking laws????
> 
> We have laws on the book to prevent illegal immigration - so that our welfare workers (social workers) and our citizens (personnel/ human resource employees) shouldn't have to bear the burden of verifying and weeding out all those people who are willing to lie, cheat, and steal to gain access to jobs and benefits which belong to American citizens (again....natural born or naturalized)....You want SOMEONE to be held accountable - just not the illegals, themselves. Or the government which has turned a deaf ear to the states pushing for immigration enforcement.


The illegal alien believes that if he shoots you in the head - it's YOUR fault because you didn't duck. Hey, all he did was pull the trigger and YOU were just standing there. So, don't go blaming those wonderful, innocent criminals. They bring more value to America than you know - or don'cha know it already from these posts?


----------



## pancho (Oct 23, 2006)

Bearfootfarm said:


> That has nothing to do with who PAYS for it
> Why should ILLEGALS get a free education at our expense?


Why should I have to pay for an education of any child? I don't want to pay for an illegal child's education or a legal child's education.
If I am forced to pay anyway I don't really care who uses the money they take from me.


----------



## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

> I don't want to pay for an illegal child's education


You wouldnt have to if they were made to leave.


----------



## LaManchaPaul (May 21, 2008)

Bearfootfarm said:


> That has nothing to do with who PAYS for it
> Why should ILLEGALS get a free education at our expense?


You are the expert on rhetorical questions. Go for it.


----------



## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

> You are the expert on rhetorical questions. Go for it.


They shouldn't get anything free
They should be arrested and deported


----------



## kbshorts (Dec 6, 2005)

Legal, illegal doesn't matter, processed or organic, doesn't matter either, take charity from the government and you are a slave. No chains but a slave just the same. 

KB


----------



## pancho (Oct 23, 2006)

hobbyfarmer said:


> Why do you keep demanding that the social workers and personnel employees work harder to "do their jobs" while you don't say a thing about the government enforcing immigration laws???? You say nothing about illegals breaking laws????
> 
> We have laws on the book to prevent illegal immigration - so that our welfare workers (social workers) and our citizens (personnel/ human resource employees) shouldn't have to bear the burden of verifying and weeding out all those people who are willing to lie, cheat, and steal to gain access to jobs and benefits which belong to American citizens (again....natural born or naturalized)....You want SOMEONE to be held accountable - just not the illegals, themselves. Or the government which has turned a deaf ear to the states pushing for immigration enforcement.


I do demand every gov. employee do the job they are paid to do, no exceptions.
Do you know how much the U.S. spends every year guarding the southern border? Just a rough estimate, the U.S. spends over $2.8 billion on each mile of border. Then there are still unguarded walk bridges left open for people to cross over.

I agree, always have, the illegals are breaking the law. I have also done enough research to learn the U.S. has always encouraged illegals to come to the U.S.

It is part of the job description of the welfare workers, social workers, to verify every single person who applies for benefits. What other reason would we have for hiring them? If they were not hired to do that what is the reason we hired them in the first place?
I want to hold the illegals responsible for breaking the law. One thing you need to think about. Not a single illegal can force any social worker, welfare worker to qualify them for benefits. They can apply for those benefits, it is the job of these hard working gov. employees to check the paperwork. We could replace the ones we have today with a large barrel. One barrel for food stamps and one barrel for house keys. Just file through and collect what you need and file out the door. The results would be the same and we could save all of the money we are paying the gov. workers.

For some reason you do not think a gov. employee should be asked to do the job they are paid to do. In your own words you just answered why the illegals are here. The average U.S. citizen thinks they should be paid but refuse to do the work. When the people of the U.S. decide to do what they are paid to do we won't have an illegal program.


----------



## pancho (Oct 23, 2006)

Bearfootfarm said:


> You wouldnt have to if they were made to leave.


I am also forced to pay for legal U.S. citizen's childs education. When are they going to pay for their own child's education?


----------



## pancho (Oct 23, 2006)

Still waiting for anyone to answer 6 simple questions.
Any takers yet or do you need a little more time to cry and complain?


----------



## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

> Still waiting for anyone to answer 6 simple questions.


All you have now is *repetition*
I guess that's one way to avoid facing reality


----------



## pancho (Oct 23, 2006)

Bearfootfarm said:


> All you have now is *repetition*
> I guess that's one way to avoid facing reality


If you get tired of reading it, try answering a question.
That is all it takes.


----------



## Laura Zone 5 (Jan 13, 2010)

LaManchaPaul said:


> "I answer to God"
> "I am commanded by God"
> "He protects me"
> "God will judge me"
> ...



Restating:

Non-Believers don't understand this, ridicule this, and even hate because of this....but again.
That's not MY responsibility.


----------



## hobbyfarmer (Oct 10, 2007)

*sigh* We have answered and re-answered your questions about the impact of illegal immigration on the tax-payer. Since you want to play dumb for drama's sake alone, here are some links:

Los Angeles County
http://www.judicialwatch.org/blog/2010/mar/county-spends-600-mil-welfare-illegals

In my own backyard- stats for everything from the cost of education to the increased costs of solid waste disposal
http://www.fairus.org/site/PageServer?pagename=research_researche5a6

Another KY lawsuit: this one brought to court because our state workers were UNABLE to verify citizenship when the illegals provided FALSE information. How do YOU prove your information is your own? How does one employee sitting in a cubicle with outdated technology and 100s of caseloads, prove that the social security card you submit is NOT yours? The illegals stole welfare benefits. The People filed a lawsuit. The People paid for the defense of the State as well. duh....Yet more expense covered by legal citizens via taxes and loss of services...
http://www.scribd.com/doc/4629574/I...et-al-Case-No-508319-Judge-Forrester-Kentucky


And finally, the cost to taxpayers to just "forget and forgive" - let the illegals stay. Let them become legal without delay. Give them Amnesty and watch the cost to taxpayers.....
http://www.numbersusa.com/content/l...sty-costs-10-times-more-than-enforcement.html


Bottom line, illegal immigrants cost $ we don't have. To our welfare system (yes. food stamps, housing, emergency medical treatment, road use, park services, police and fire fighters....all these things are technically a redistribution of our country's wealth and they are all being used by illegals), to our education system, to our courts and prison systems. We CAN'T afford this. Not now and not tomorrow. There are your answers. There are your links.


----------



## pancho (Oct 23, 2006)

hobbyfarmer said:


> *sigh* We have answered and re-answered your questions about the impact of illegal immigration on the tax-payer. Since you want to play dumb for drama's sake alone, here are some links:
> 
> Los Angeles County
> http://www.judicialwatch.org/blog/2010/mar/county-spends-600-mil-welfare-illegals
> ...


I have already read those postings. Thanks for posting them anyway.

What I can't understand why the american people will not use the most effective tool we have to control immigration. We are paying for the tool. If the tool was used much of the problems could be eliminated.

The tool is the gov. employees. From the gov. employees setting at the desk taking application for benefits, to the border control agents, to the law enforcement agents, to the code enforcers, to the thousands of others.
Their job is too protect us from the illegals. 
Is there anyone who thinks these people are doing their job?
Is there anyone who would expect to keep their job if they performed in the same manner as these gov. employees?

By law any gov. employee does not have to provide gov. benefits to illegals.
That is the bottom line. What would happen if these people did their job? Do you think we might be able to save a little tax money? Do you think the illegals would not be as eager to come to the U.S.?

We have a way of controlling the cost of illegals. We just choose not to use it. We are too busy making excuses for those who collect a pay check but do not do the job they were hired to do.

You can make all of the excuses you want. You can blame anyone you want.
Is there anyone who has any idea how to control the illegal problem?
I hear complaints but no solutions. That is getting to be a large problem in the U.S. Too many people complaining and too few really doing anything.


----------



## Gercarson (Nov 2, 2003)

pancho said:


> i have already read those postings. Thanks for posting them anyway.
> 
> What i can't understand why the american people will not use the most effective tool we have to control immigration. We are paying for the tool. If the tool was used much of the problems could be eliminated.
> 
> ...


duck!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


----------



## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

> If you get tired of reading it, try answering a question.
> That is all it takes.


They've been answered.



> I have already read those postings.


You've seen the answers



> By law any gov. Employee does not have to provide gov. Benefits to illegals.


And you repeat the same falsehood endlessly

You have no connection with reality, so there's no point in wasting any more time .


----------



## poppy (Feb 21, 2008)

The undocumented people I know are noble and honest said:


> How can you say that? They cannot be noble and honest when they have broken the law by being here in the first place. We are told in the Bible to obey civil law. Remember Christ saying " Render unto Caesar "? To be honest and noble, they would have applied for green cards or work visas like the law says and abide by the rules thereof.


----------



## pancho (Oct 23, 2006)

Bearfootfarm said:


> They've been answered.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Yet you continue to do so. Still haven't answered a single question.


----------



## Gercarson (Nov 2, 2003)

pancho said:


> Yet you continue to do so. Still haven't answered a single question.


Polly want a cracker, Polly want a cracker, Polly want a cracker, Polly want a cracker?
Sorry, just sounds like a parrott because it just keeps repeating and repeating and doesn't really understand English. Polly want a cracker, Polly want a cracker, Polly want a cracker?


----------



## pancho (Oct 23, 2006)

Gercarson said:


> Polly want a cracker, Polly want a cracker, Polly want a cracker, Polly want a cracker?
> Sorry, just sounds like a parrott because it just keeps repeating and repeating and doesn't really understand English. Polly want a cracker, Polly want a cracker, Polly want a cracker?


Are you able to answer a single question? 
Real simple. For a person who continues to cry, whine, and complain about a subject it would seem like you would want to learn something about it.
Would you like to explain the Welfare Reform Bill of 1996? Have you even read it? From your post I can guess you still are a hold out.
Most people who do not want to know the truth refuse to read it. 
It does make things real simple but it also shows the real problem we have.

I have posted before that the U.S. citizens really wants the illegals to be here. There is just a small minority, very vocal, that has a different idea. 
It is easy to see that they are even not sure about their decision.


----------



## pancho (Oct 23, 2006)

poppy said:


> How can you say that? They cannot be noble and honest when they have broken the law by being here in the first place. We are told in the Bible to obey civil law. Remember Christ saying " Render unto Caesar "? To be honest and noble, they would have applied for green cards or work visas like the law says and abide by the rules thereof.


Poppy, was that the same bible that was around when your ancestors came here?


----------



## Laura Zone 5 (Jan 13, 2010)

pancho said:


> Poppy, was that the same bible that was around when your ancestors came here?


 The Word of God has been here, since the Beginning of Time.....
For non Believers, it is a very hard 'concept' to get your arms around.....but it is a Believers instruction manual from God....
Believers march to a different Drummer, because He is above all.
Again, a super tough concept to get if you do not Believe.


----------



## Dutchie (Mar 14, 2003)

Bearfootfarm said:


> That has nothing to do with who PAYS for it
> Why should ILLEGALS get a free education at our expense?


Assuming, of course, that every law abiding citizen pays their taxes.


----------



## Dutchie (Mar 14, 2003)

Gercarson said:


> Polly want a cracker, Polly want a cracker, Polly want a cracker, Polly want a cracker?
> Sorry, just sounds like a parrott because it just keeps repeating and repeating and doesn't really understand English. Polly want a cracker, Polly want a cracker, Polly want a cracker?


Annoying little thing, aren't you?


----------



## pancho (Oct 23, 2006)

Laura Zone 5 said:


> The Word of God has been here, since the Beginning of Time.....
> For non Believers, it is a very hard 'concept' to get your arms around.....but it is a Believers instruction manual from God....
> Believers march to a different Drummer, because He is above all.
> Again, a super tough concept to get if you do not Believe.


I was wondering if Poppy's ancestors read the same bible and believed as he did. If any of that was true he would not be here complaining.
They must have had a different bible, different belief, or they were not noble and honest either.


----------



## Sonshine (Jul 27, 2007)

stranger said:


> I think anyone getting food stamps,welfare,SSI should have to pass a drug test,before i retired, I had to pass a randem test to keep my job to pay taxes to help pay for food stamps,welfare SSI ect.


I actually agree with this. I know that there are folks that fall on hard times and need this assistance. I also know some that refuse to work, preferring instead to take whatever the government will give them.


----------



## Sonshine (Jul 27, 2007)

pancho said:


> Poppy, are you another one that picks and chooses who you want to be criminals?
> 
> There are a few questions I have been trying to get answers for. So far no one has been able to answer.
> 
> ...


I agree, the government is to blame for the illegals and the problems that arise due to their taking up residence here. Why do you think so many are sick of the government? Not just the Dems, but the Reps too.


----------



## Sonshine (Jul 27, 2007)

willow_girl said:


> That's kinda how I feel: fortunate to have always been able to work, advance myself and accumulate wealth. How many people here really think the life of a welfare mother is more fulfilling than theirs? That's a strange person to envy, if you ask me. Of course, in a nation that holds up uninterrupted leisure as the ideal state, perhaps it's understandable. :shrug:


More fulfilling? No, but if I was a party girl it would be. I have a neighbor that is a welfare mom. She's out partying every night, while her 14 yr old son wanders the streets. Her son spends more time eating here than at home because his mom is never there. I don't envy her, because I believe that food that is raised with my own hands is rewarding. I believe that when you work to earn something it has more meaning. But obviously, there are many who disagree.


----------



## Sonshine (Jul 27, 2007)

Laura Zone 5 said:


> I vote. My men and women in The United States Military deserve that respect for what they do: secure my RIGHT to vote.
> The candidates that I had to choose from were....sketchy at best, but I held my nose and pulled the R, based only on McCain's Military backround.
> I did my part. I voted for those who "said" they were against big government, and for private sector.
> 
> ...


:clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: Am I allowed to say Post of the Day!!!


----------



## Sonshine (Jul 27, 2007)

willow_girl said:


> The great irony is that the same may have been said of your grandparents or great-great-grandparents (whichever generation first emigrated to U.S. soil). Even if they came here legally (because laws were less strict in the past), they probably were viewed with disdain by native-born Americans, particularly if they came from places like Eastern Europe, Ireland, Italy, or the Far East.


Well, mine didn't, since they were already here.


----------



## Sonshine (Jul 27, 2007)

LaManchaPaul said:


> "I answer to God"
> "I am commanded by God"
> "He protects me"
> "God will judge me"
> ...


You are fortunate to know ones who are noble and honest, although since they are here illegally I don't know how noble and honest that is. Many have become citizens legally. Why should these be here illegally. There is a way to do it the noble and honest way. Do you deny that there are many who are drug runners? Who are kidnappers?


----------



## Sonshine (Jul 27, 2007)

pancho said:


> Still waiting for anyone to answer the questions. I am not picky, I will listen to anyone.
> I am really curious how others would answer.
> 
> It looks like the majority of people really do not know very much about illegals. I can understand if the only exposure many have to illegals is the media. It is easy to understand why they feel as they do. If you have never been around illegals, listen to the media, believe the politicians, never do any research, and really don't want to learn the truth I can see why you believe the way you do.
> Just do some reading and thinking. It might not change your thinking in any way but you might get a better understanding of the true problem.


Ummm, I think Laura DID answer the questions.


----------



## Sonshine (Jul 27, 2007)

pancho said:


> Still waiting for anyone to answer the questions. I am not picky, I will listen to anyone.
> I am really curious how others would answer.
> 
> It looks like the majority of people really do not know very much about illegals. I can understand if the only exposure many have to illegals is the media. It is easy to understand why they feel as they do. If you have never been around illegals, listen to the media, believe the politicians, never do any research, and really don't want to learn the truth I can see why you believe the way you do.
> Just do some reading and thinking. It might not change your thinking in any way but you might get a better understanding of the true problem.


Having lived in Texas and in New Mexico, I have seen plenty in regards to the illegal problems.


----------



## poppy (Feb 21, 2008)

pancho said:


> Poppy, was that the same bible that was around when your ancestors came here?


Yep, why do you ask? Have you any proof my ancestors came here illegally? I haven't seen any. The Bible doesn't change even though our immigration laws do.


----------



## pancho (Oct 23, 2006)

Sonshine said:


> I agree, the government is to blame for the illegals and the problems that arise due to their taking up residence here. Why do you think so many are sick of the government? Not just the Dems, but the Reps too.


You are very right. There is no difference in a democrat or a republican. Neither will do the job they were elected to do.


----------



## pancho (Oct 23, 2006)

Sonshine said:


> Ummm, I think Laura DID answer the questions.


Don't think you have read the whole thread. Looks like you may have skipped over the majority of it.

What question do you think she answered?


----------



## pancho (Oct 23, 2006)

Sonshine said:


> Having lived in Texas and in New Mexico, I have seen plenty in regards to the illegal problems.


I was born in Okla. near the red river. Lived in Texas for probably 15 years. Also lived in New Mexico for some time. Still have many relatives living in both states.


----------



## pancho (Oct 23, 2006)

poppy said:


> Yep, why do you ask? Have you any proof my ancestors came here illegally? I haven't seen any. The Bible doesn't change even though our immigration laws do.


No, I don't have any proof at all. Are you a native american? Do you have any proof that the law allows illegals to collect any gov. benefits?


----------



## LaManchaPaul (May 21, 2008)

Sonshine said:


> :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: Am I allowed to say Post of the Day!!!


Of course you may.

Laura's quote:"
And the inspector will answer for his deception.
And the social worker will answer for her deception.
And the benefit worker will answer for his deception."

Sonshine, It seems that God doesn't demand the answer soon enough to please me. 

When gov workers continually fail at their jobs; they don't answer for the deceptions then the US citizens, like Laura and others on this thread, can't just say, 'God is Great' and expect any change to the issues raised in this thread. 

The angry ones simply can not assign 100% blame to the heavy vehicle that breaks the bridge; the parent who kills the child; NOR the receiver of benefits from a gov worker who doesn't check all requirements before fraudulently giving away my tax money.


----------



## LaManchaPaul (May 21, 2008)

Sonshine said:


> You are fortunate to know ones who are noble and honest, although since they are here illegally I don't know how noble and honest that is. Many have become citizens legally. Why should these be here illegally. There is a way to do it the noble and honest way. Do you deny that there are many who are drug runners? Who are kidnappers?


I am also fortunate enough to understand that all races have problems that you are describing.


----------

