# Dick Proenneke redux - survival/technology questions



## Ohio Rusty (Jan 18, 2008)

(I moved this thread from General chat as I think this is a better place for this)

Sometime back in the early 70's I was reading info about Dick Proenneke, the self-sufficient hermit that lived at Twin Lakes Alaska for 30 years. I had forgotten about him completely until this week our local PBS station was running a show about him named 'Alone in the Wilderness'. The show was really great ...almost invigorating, as I've never seen it or any of the movies he made. It's nice to see something new that you have never seen.

He kept a journal of his living alone, and it's online as a PDF and can be seen here: http://www.nps.gov/history/history/online_books/lacl/proenneke.pdf

I've just started reading and it's been interesting so far. One thing he mentioned was he didn't care for technology, and he thought it was moving too fast. If he hadn't died in 2003, he would have really seen technology moving at the speed of lightning today !! He died about the time when the 386 computer, the 80 meg hard drive and 512 K of memory was just becoming all the rage. (Doesn't that seem like a-forever ago ??)

When Dick Proenneke started his quest to live alone in the alaskan wilderness, (1967) The microwave wasn't available, cell phones and home computers were non-existant, the M-16 rifle and .223 bullet hadn't made it into the public/civilian mainstream yet like it is today .... and were still using leaded gas then !! I remember 1967 ... although I was just a young lad in grade school. Progress and technology has jumped exponentially since that time. 

So here is the big question that has come to mind ..... 
*As a Survivalist, or Self-reliant person ---- Do you embrace or lothe technology? 
Where do you think technology fits in or doesn't fit in to us who are into prepping and doom?
How has technology helped you or hurt you in your quest for self reliancy ????*

Ohio Rusty ><>


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## Cabin Fever (May 10, 2002)

Well, I'm not sold on much of modern technology.

In 1967, my TV reception was darn near crystal clear and free of charge.

In 1967, communications by phone was also crystal clear and my calls never got dropped.

In 1967, I could understand the workings of an automobile. I could diagnose and fix almost anything on one.

"Modern" technology is not so great, IMHO.


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## Sarah J (Jun 28, 2003)

Speaking for myself and my family: we embrace technology but do not RELY on it. We use it everyday through work and communicating with our friends and family (email, facebook). We order items online to have them shipped to us. We have and regularly use our microwave, DVD player, Netflix streaming.

But we also have backup methods and alternatives that we use at times. We know how to reheat those left-overs in the oven or on the stove. We are adept at cooking over a fire or in a dutch oven in the coals or on the charcoal grill. We have hand-crank kitchen items and use them (grain mill, meat grinder, food processor, ice cream maker *grin*).

I shop locally when I can, buy online when I can't. And nothing I buy online is essential for living...those are luxuries.

I have a refrigerator and two deep freezers that we use and love, but also know how to preserve the foods in them for an emergency if they are NOT available any longer. I have an acreage on rural water, but also have a hand pump well that I just recently tested and it's good drinking water (*YAY*), so if the water stops flowing, I can hand pump it myself. And speaking from this past summer's experience (broke a water main in the drought-dry grounds), that's a lot of good muscle-building work when hauling water to livestock twice a day!!!

So in essence, yes we use technology when we can because it's available, but when the power goes out or it ISN'T available anymore, we won't be bored, we won't panic and we have the skills and know-how to do just fine without them.

How's that?


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## thesedays (Feb 25, 2011)

Ohio Rusty said:


> If he hadn't died in 2003, he would have really seen technology moving at the speed of lightning today !! He died about the time when the 386 computer, the 80 meg hard drive and 512 K of memory was just becoming all the rage. (Doesn't that seem like a-forever ago ??)


You're talking about 1983, or maybe 1993, not 2003.

I saw those shows on my local PBS affiliate and I agree, they were fascinating.


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## jwal10 (Jun 5, 2010)

I wouldn't give up what I have. Cell phone gives me internet. I use some solar. I am old fashioned. I have a '52 Chevy pickup. Work mostly with hand tools but like the battery powered ones. I use a lot more drywall screws than nails these days. My kids have learned a thing or two from me about computers in the past but being retired I am not so into them now. I lost my Grandfather in 1968, I was 12 and find myself really liking the way he lived, simple and deliberate. I like simple even if a little on the edge....James


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## Trisha in WA (Sep 28, 2005)

Ohio Rusty said:


> So here is the big question that has come to mind .....
> *As a Survivalist, or Self-reliant person ---- Do you embrace or lothe technology?
> Where do you think technology fits in or doesn't fit in to us who are into prepping and doom?
> How has technology helped you or hurt you in your quest for self reliancy ????*
> ...


I saw "Alone in the Wilderness" probably 10 or more years ago (can't remember exactly). I LOVED IT! Started me gently along on my path really I guess.

I neither loath or love technology. I have used the internet to learn HUGE amounts!!! We already live with much less technology than others mostly by choice. We don't have a microwave or cable TV or newer cars. We live in an area of no cell phone reception. We just choose different ways.

I think a lot of the current tech (video games and other media) is used to numb the brain of many. It's much easier to keep those people in check than those with a sharp mind. Just my opinion.


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## gideonprime (Oct 17, 2007)

Trisha in WA said:


> I saw "Alone in the Wilderness" probably 10 or more years ago (can't remember exactly). I LOVED IT! Started me gently along on my path really I guess.
> 
> I neither loath or love technology. I have used the internet to learn HUGE amounts!!! We already live with much less technology than others mostly by choice. We don't have a microwave or cable TV or newer cars. We live in an area of no cell phone reception. We just choose different ways.
> 
> I think a lot of the current tech (video games and other media) is used to numb the brain of many. It's much easier to keep those people in check than those with a sharp mind. Just my opinion.


Hey studies show that Video gamers have better hand eye coordination and are more creative problem solvers than those who do not game.

Just had to defend them as they are IMO not all bad.


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## Sonshine (Jul 27, 2007)

I figure technology has it's place. I like the fact that I can use solar energy to get my water pumped out of my well. As far as the rest of technology, I can take it or leave it. Having the internet has been a great resource for me though in learning how to survive without technology. Kind of ironic, huh?


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## ai731 (Sep 11, 2007)

I use a laptop computer to connect to the internet (DH & I share one computer). I watch DVDs and listen to CDs. Our car has some electronics (though not too much, because we bought a base model that didn't have any extra gadgets) and probably a computer chip in it. I have a digital camera. That's about the extent of my use of technology. I don't have / need / want a:

- cell phone/smartphone/blackberry/iPhone/mobile device
- GPS unit
- any kind of video game console (Xbox, Wii, etc.)
- cable / satellite TV
- Tivo
- Blu-Ray
- Flat screen TV (though I might get one because they use a lot less electricity than the old tube kind)
- anything Bluetooth 
- Kindle/Nook
- iPad

I used to be a computer programmer, and DH works in the video game industry, so we're not luddites by any stretch! We just like living simply, and find that that's easier to do without a whole bunch of modern gadgets.


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## stanb999 (Jan 30, 2005)

Ohio Rusty said:


> So here is the big question that has come to mind .....
> *As a Survivalist, or Self-reliant person ---- Do you embrace or lothe technology?
> Where do you think technology fits in or doesn't fit in to us who are into prepping and doom?
> How has technology helped you or hurt you in your quest for self reliancy ????*
> ...




From a survival aspect. You should of course embrace tech it makes it much easier.

For clothes and personal gear.
Really you order your hard to find survival items from mail order? From a catalogue found in the back of a magazine? Not likely. 

You use only old fashioned outer wear like wool. No modern water proof but breathable fabrics that are thin but very warm.. micro fabrics.

No under armor just cotton union suits.

No modern water proof trekking boots. Just heavy all weather leather boots that leak on the first puddle.

For tools and camp gear..

No Stainless or titanium pots. It's cast iron for you. No camp stoves a zippo for fire starting will do. No nylon tents it's Canvas for you. No comfortable pack.. a ruck sack will do. Cold steel knife... Not titanium. Only a compass with paper maps.. No GPS

Food.
No freeze dried for you. Sacks of beans, rice, and dried meat.


Doing it the old way a lot of folks died. Their were reasons for this. They weren't just wimpy.


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## ryanthomas (Dec 10, 2009)

thesedays said:


> You're talking about 1983, or maybe 1993, not 2003.


He died in 2003, after leaving his cabin in 1999.

I use technology where it suits me, but I really would prefer not to have a lot of it. As far as information availability, the internet has been huge, but I think it has also made things too easy in some ways.


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## Fowler (Jul 8, 2008)

Wind in Her Hair said:


> *call me old fashioned but I loathe modern technology *- I use it - in fact it brought me to my &#9829; Cabin Fever &#9829; and it helps me stay in touch with my far-flung family much better- but I loathe it. *And I loathe our culture's dependence on it. *
> Look to my "Reading the Weather, the Sky" etc thread to understand what I am talking about.
> 
> Technology has COST us our ability to think and react and read the world we live in.
> ...


This^^^^But not the part about Honey badger :shocked:
IMO technology has made people lazy!! and forced others out of work, while provided jobs to lazy people.
And I'm a computer geek by day and a farmer by night. I wish I could just farm. My husband always says what will office people have to do when all the physical workers, work in an office? Hmmmm


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## Bandit (Oct 5, 2008)

This post brought back memories of watching Dick's Movies years ago.
Technology is good at times , I just logged on to the local library web site and ordered the book" One Man's Wilderness " and the video " Alone In the Wilderness "
Bob
I am still working My way through the Louise Dickerson Rich books I took out last week LOL


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## fordy (Sep 13, 2003)

............................Technology enables us , and increasingly , it is being used against us ! Police officers utilize tactics and dress their SWAT teams like they were going after Osama , they bust down home owners front doors because they keep $50 worth of pot in a baggie . They initiate a high speed pursuit in a poor neighborhood in Ft. Worth , tx cause the guy had a defective tail light , he's driving an F250 and running through yards and chain link fences....somehow no kids were in the way and no one was hurt . Gotta keep those murders off the street <rant over>......... 
...........................So , IF a citizen doesn't immediately jump when commanded by the LEO he or she gets Tazed , techology at it's very finest ! On the plus side , who amongst us is willing too turn the clock back on medical technology that might save your(generic) child , mother or father . No one I'll assume . , fordy


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## MO_cows (Aug 14, 2010)

This might make an interesting poll. Who is ready to go back to yesteryear, and who is going to milk modern technology for all it's worth until it goes away?

Me, personally, I'm gonna milk it. I think back with fond nostalgia of the 60's cars I used to drive. Then I remember that they could never go 100,000 miles without a tuneup like my modern car. The ones with a V8 but only a 2 barrel carb didn't have any more get up and go than the 6-cyl I drive today, yet they used twice as much gas - at least. The Internet and my computer have enabled me to learn things and connect with people I would never have known otherwise. And who remembers the phone on the wall in the kitchen with the stretched out cord?? I'd rather have the cordless. And I also like having a cell phone in my purse when I am out on the road alone. Two people I know are cancer survivors. If it wasn't for modern medicine, I would be grieving for them. 

Doesn't mean I don't love old-school real cooking and detest food that comes in a box or a "heat and eat" freezer package. Doesn't mean I like seeing kids parked in front of a video game console for hours on end. Doesn't mean I want to be dependant on technology and am helpless without it, just that I take advantage of it while it is here. 

I am gonna play the hand I have been dealt. I live in modern times, so that's how I live. I know how to cook over a fire or coals, but I use my stove. I know how to ride a horse and enjoy it, but I drive my car to work. I garden as best I can with a full time job, but I still like getting bananas and citrus and coffee and chocolate and other things that don't grow here. If it all goes away, I believe I can manage, but I will admit, I am gonna miss some things.


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## Ozarks Tom (May 27, 2011)

Technology is like any other tool, neither good nor bad. It really depends on whether it's of use to you, and how you use it.

We use the things we find useful to us, and don't pay much attention to what isn't.

Some people/governments pervert tools to their own ends, but it's not the fault of the tool. Think guns.


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## jwal10 (Jun 5, 2010)

I didn't know about Dick until I saw something about him here this year. I ran around the woods here from the time I was 7. I farmed until 1992, no computer, no cell phone, no TV. Just an AM radio, came in my first John Deere tractor with a cab in 1983. Never had one in a combine either, I wanted to hear that machine. Never had one in a truck, tractor or in the house. If not for health reasons I would probably still be farming the same way....James


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## wvstuck (Sep 19, 2008)

stanb999 said:


> From a survival aspect. You should of course embrace tech it makes it much easier.
> 
> For clothes and personal gear.
> Really you order your hard to find survival items from mail order? From a catalogue found in the back of a magazine? Not likely.
> ...


Believe it or not.... Yes, and there are a lot of us out here that do it the old way and aren't in any danger of dying.

I believe if you trust your life to technology then technology may one day cost you your life.

I do all of my navigation by topo-maps and compass. I use carbon steel knives and cast iron cookware. My boots are leather and they never leak, a little kiwi goes a long way. I have no under armor, just plain cotton and wool long johns and I stay plenty warm, even when wet. Wool blankets provide warmth even when wet, holofil does not.

I like certain technology, like the Internet for research and conversation. But there are no high tech gadgets needed from survival sites. I can pick up my "survival stuff" at a local store or by using mail order from Lehmans.

When I first started in this "homesteading / survival" thing, I thought you had to have tons of freeze dried foods on hand, but I've since learned that sustainable - beats stockpiling. I sold my place bought a very rural piece of land and became an "old fashioned" farmer. Dried, canned, salted, smoked meats that I raise myself... seem to taste better and I don't have to rely on technology to get my dinner.

Some modern stuff is neat, but what good will GPS do you when the satellites no longer function to serve your hand held unit.

Not having a camp stove doesn't preclude me from out living someone who does.

I am not questioning your post or your choices, I just chose your post as a starting point... We each have to live the way we feel comfortable and secure. Technology has a place, I just don't think you can rely on it to be there forever... With that said, some of the old ways must be practiced and lived daily in order to make sure of your own survival in the long term... Waiting for the end to show up and then deciding to learn the old ways might leave a person in a "Too Late" situation.


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

> Then I remember that they could *never go 100,000 miles without a tuneup *like my modern car


While that may be true, you COULD tune it up yourself for about $20 with just a wrench and a screwdriver, in about an hour


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## Ohio Rusty (Jan 18, 2008)

I still have point files I use Bearfootfarm !! 
I find myself agreeing with parts of everyone posts. I work with computers everyday, so that has become a big part of my life. The internet, communication media, music and books online, etc. I find that technology has pervaded everypart of my life, but without it, I do well. Of course, several years ago after hurricaine Ike and no power for 5 days, I was happy the lights came back on and I could get back to email and list posting again. 

I find there is ALOT of information on the 'net that would be much more difficult to get otherwise. So many folks have been generous over the years to post information on the outdoors, cooking, self reliancy, shooting and handloading, etc., etc., that I have become much wiser in a shorter period of time that trying to learn everything by trial and error over a lifetime. 

Mo_Cows mentioned nostalgia ..... Nostalgia can give you that warm and fuzzy feeling about things .... I've hauled water in jugs and buckets, I've lived with just candles and oil lamps, I've cut wood and mined coal to stay warm, I've run generators to keep things frozen or cold ...... But I also appreciate the technology of electric lights, turning on the faucet for water and furnace heat. Flush toilets, running water and electricity are good things .....

I don't own a GPS but I find myself using google maps and mapquest quite often to get street level maps and directions. I really like the live pics from Google so i can see my destination before I even get there. I am also a product of this modern world, and use technology when necessary. I don't have a fancy cell phone .... but my basic cell phone (that is 10 cents a minute) can call for help if broke down. I live rural and drive long distances where my cell has come in handy. I'm the recent owner of a Coby tablet, and also enjoy the wireless while I'm waiting in the dentist office or at a place where I can check mail and news. 

If I were completely dependant on the old ways, I would have probably been dead years ago. Modern medicine has helped everyone, starting with shots when we were young that killed folks that lived before us. The technology of modern medicine is a great thing, and it has helped friends and family get well thru some really bad times. 

Sometimes though.... modern technology seems like it goes too far. It's like being overwhelmed is the best feeling I can describe. That is when I turn to the old way ... the simple ways where one can use their own two hands and brain power to get the job done instead of depending on some product from China. I needed a tool holder and a heavy duty hook to hang a lantern from in the barn. Instead of going out and buying it, I went to my blacksmith forge last night and hand forged the tool holder and hooks I needed. I find myself doing that alot .... making the things I want and need instead of depending on places like Wally World and the like. I make my own nails now ..... I know ... I could just go to the store and buy a box ..... but I find there is a greater satisfaction when you make something with your own two hands or from your brain.....
This can be anything ... from solving a problem you figured out yourself, sewing something usable, to making an apple pie, canning vegetables you grew or doing leather and metal work to forge out something practical and usable. 

I use tecnology everyday for work travel and home .... but when I can get away from technology to do the things I need to do .... I wholly embrace that too. I love it when green things come up in the garden that I planted, or the 'POP' of the canning lids when they seal ..... The smell of fresh bread in the oven and not in a plastic bag from the store ...... these are the gifts of self satsfaction that make me get out of bed everyday ....... not just the paycheck.
Ohio Rusty ><>


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## Fowler (Jul 8, 2008)

Wind in Her Hair said:


> agreeing with you on the technology point - sorta.
> 
> But I wanted to add that its our DEPENDENCE on technology that threatens to CRIPPLE us when its unavailable or when it collapses.
> 
> ...


:goodjob: :goodjob: :goodjob::clap::clap:


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## Win07_351 (Dec 7, 2008)

I do appreciate DVD, and videos because I am able to view instructional material (courses) which is how I learn a lot of new skills.


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## PhilJohnson (Dec 24, 2006)

Bearfootfarm said:


> While that may be true, you COULD tune it up yourself for about $20 with just a wrench and a screwdriver, in about an hour


I've ran mostly old cars my whole life. Old beaters from the 60s and 70s can be cantankerous but it's a lot easier to fix those old clunkers and with some patience and scrounging I've kept some of them on the road with a near zero repair budget. When something goes out on a fuel injected car it's usually hundreds of dollars worth of parts and a lot of irritation to replace. Modern cars are more reliable, but like a light switch they either work or they don't. There is no road side repair work one can do to limp to a gas station or home with a modern car. 

I embrace technology. Like Stan said it isn't just the Ipods we are talking about, there are many small items that people don't think about. I could survive without it but until then I think I'll keep enjoying surfing the net, typing replies to threads about technology, ect.


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## ryanthomas (Dec 10, 2009)

Wind in Her Hair said:


> Technology - while making things "easier" removes the need for us to THINK and OBSERVE and REASON and KNOW and REMEMBER.


Exactly my sentiments I couldn't put into words. Easy is great while we have it, but when technology fails (and it frequently does in small ways) suddenly things get VERY difficult in comparison.


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