# Land Owners Rights vs. Power Company Right of Way



## Plain Old Mike (Feb 5, 2010)

Hello all, this is my first post here, not to be the last i'm certain...

My wife and I live in a passive solar home on about 10 mostly wooded acres in upstate NY. The part of our land bordering the (dirt) road is designated as a legal easement for the power lines that parallell the road, however they are laid out in such a manner that there is a "buffer" of some trees between the road, then a heavily cleared area for the lines, and then the woods resume and continue up to the house. My probing question... what rights do we have to either grow some cover/forage crops in between the power pole gaps, or even pasture some sheep or goats there considering the use of moveable fencing so as not to impede access for line maintenance? 
ALSO... is there any kind of legal precident anyone knows of that were we to go completly off grid and were no longer using their services, could we, and most likely a lawyer, politely ask them to remove the poles from our land?
Any help or input is greatly appreciated. 
In the spring I could take some snapshots to show an example of exactly what type of lay-of-the-land we are dealing with.(currently it is just weedy and has reminents of where the butchers widened the access area before we moved in 3 years ago.)
It is a significant enough piece of good land (that we are paying taxes for) to warrant my curiosity.


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## plowjockey (Aug 18, 2008)

To my knowldege, power companies are usually only concerned, with anything can possibly interfere with the lines.

They spend a considerable amount of money cutting down vegatation, including leasing goats to eat it.

If the property between the poles is yours, you can graze or plant short crops on the land. You likely cannot build, put in a pond, or plant tall vegetation (trees bushes) on the land.

You could always ask the power company to remove the poles. They probably would not do it, at least for free. There is probably no legal obligation for them to do so.


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## littlebitfarm (Mar 21, 2005)

Was the power line put in only to serve your house or does it go to other property too?

Kathie


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## watcher (Sep 4, 2006)

I've seen row crops grown under major power transmission lines. As plowjocky said as long as what ever you are growing isn't going to interfere with their access or the power lines the company isn't really going to care.

One thing to remember. If there is a problem the power company most likely has the right to bring in any equipment necessary to fix it. This means they can drive over anything you have planted. They also have the right to bring in equipment to clear the right of way but if you keep your part clear that should not be a problem for you. Usually they try to do as little damage a possible but it really depends on the company and the crew.


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## RonM (Jan 6, 2008)

That is covered in the 5th Amendment I believe...


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## oneokie (Aug 14, 2009)

Ask for a copy of the easement.

Most likely, you can use the surface area of the easement for most agricultural uses. No permanent structures. 

As far as having the powerline removed, not likely to happen. You could spend a boatload of money trying. Most lawyers would be happy to take your money.


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## tinknal (May 21, 2004)

An easement like this is most likely bought and paid for (paid either to you or a previous land owner). When you purchased the property it was with the knowledge (at least you should have known) that the easement existed. This basically means that you agree with the terms of the sale and cannot change the terms.


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## Mike in Ohio (Oct 29, 2002)

The easement should be documented in your titlework.

Growing crops shouldn't be a problem but be aware that many utilities contract the clearing /maintenance of their right of way and in many cases utilities uses aerial spraying.

Mike


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## tinknal (May 21, 2004)

Mike in Ohio said:


> The easement should be documented in your titlework.
> 
> Growing crops shouldn't be a problem but be aware that many utilities contract the clearing /maintenance of their right of way and in many cases utilities uses aerial spraying.
> 
> Mike


Maybe for gas lines, but I believe that spray aircraft couldn't get close enough to the ground with overhead power lines.


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## Rick (May 10, 2002)

Welcome to HomesteadingToday.

I empathize with you.

I don`t think the man is going to pull those poles when they are heading in the direction of paying customers.

They wanted 26 thousand to bring electric to us.
That was plenty of reason to let them keep their poles.


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## Common Tator (Feb 19, 2008)

If you review the title search that should have been done when you bought the property, you will see the easement and where they have a right to be.

We have had a couple of problems with the power company easement on our land. I have asked to have the easement removed and they have assured me that will never happen.

One of my problems with the power company happened when the meter reader came and unlocked the gate to access the property. As he was leaving, he didn't lock it the way he found it. He was supposed to hook his padlock through our padlock, and the two padlocks were to act as links on the chain. Instead, he pulled the chain tight and linked his padlock through the chain, leaving my padlock dangling at the loose end of the chain. He locked us out of our own property!

The other problem was that they hired a tree company to trim the trees along the power lines. They gave the tree trimming company keys to the power company locks that are on every body's private property gates and sent them off to trim the trees, unsupervised. The tree company hired crews that appeared to be illegal immigrants. Once they saw our ranch they came back many times for reasons that had nothing to do with tree trimming. 

Once when we arrived at our ranch we found the gate unlocked and one of their trucks parked in front of the house. The driver was gone, and didn't come back for hours. We initially searched for him, and finally called the company to see what he was doing there. They hadn't sent him there, and had no idea why he was at our ranch. I am certain these guys scoped out our place, and we had a trailer stolen during this time.

Several times we were there, and their marked truck would come speeding down the drive and the driver seemed shocked to see us standing there. They would follow the circular drive out again and leave, but it was obvious that their plans changed when they realized we were there.

I spoke with the attorney for the power company and expressed my desire to have their lines re-routed around my property. He said that they never give up an easement once they procure it.


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## Mike in Ohio (Oct 29, 2002)

tinknal said:


> Maybe for gas lines, but I believe that spray aircraft couldn't get close enough to the ground with overhead power lines.



I have a line with 200 foot towers (2 on my property) cutting across the back corner of my farm. They use helicopters. Right of way is 200 feet wide.

Mike


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## where I want to (Oct 28, 2008)

In California, an easement is considered abandoned if the landowner files a notice of abandoment and, for the next thirty years, no one objects or uses the easement. I have no idea if NY is similar but you can see that getting an easement gone is a long process.


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## fordy (Sep 13, 2003)

.............ALSO , everyone with a Powerline easement on some part of your property should be aware , That , the power company can and Does sell access too a Pipeline that wants to run their line down the middle or on one side othe power line towers\poles on a pre existing easement ! , fordy


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## Mike in Ohio (Oct 29, 2002)

Fordy,

That is simply not true. It depends on the language of the easement in the titlework.

Mike


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## Macybaby (Jun 16, 2006)

Power companies can be tricky, and sometimes you can get the easement changed. 

We bought 40 acres in WI and needed to have ONE pole run on our land to hook up to the power (line ran on other side of street). The power company came back with a blanket easement on the entire 40 acres and expected us to sign it!!!!!

They said that was "normal procedure" for rural property as they weren't quite sure just were we might need poles to go. Turns out that is what they had done for years and years, and one reason why so much of that area of WI is crisscrossed with power lines.

We refused and after some haggling they finally came out and measured, and got an easement that only covered the area where the wires would actually be. Later we found out that many people were paying the money to get the blanket easements off their property and limit them to just the area actually needed. 

This was back in 2000. We have since moved but I could not believe it when I saw that the power company wanted me to grant them access to the entire 40 acres to install ONE pole! 

Cathy


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## Hoop (Jan 1, 2003)

When you purchased the property, you did so knowing the easement existed. At least this is how the legal system sees the situation. This is a nation of laws & contracts. By purchasing the property with an existing contract in place, you implicitly agree to all terms & conditions of the existing easement. 
The chances of you getting the utility company easement eliminated range from nonexistent to dream on. 

The Deed spells out exactly what the terms of the easement happen to be. If you already haven't done so, visit the register of deeds, and make a copy of the deed. 
I suspect the easement contains language favorable to the interests of the utility company.

You can spend all kinds of money by hiring a lawyer to fight the easement. It will be money foolishly spent. 

One day you'll come to the realization that the easement is something beyond your control, and you'll devote your efforts into things over which you have control.


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## haypoint (Oct 4, 2006)

In Michigan, a few years ago, some folks were growing fruit trees in the easement. They had to remove them, even though the trees weren't tall enough to touch the lines.

I have a friend that owned property that has those huge metal towers carrying high voltage. He can stand on the edge of his yard, hold a floresent tube in the air and it will glow from the stray voltage.


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## Big Dave (Feb 5, 2006)

I was going to say the same as haypoint. Those transmission lines are powerful enough to case serious health problems if you remain under them long enough. For a crop under them try growing hay. Everyone wins.


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## fordy (Sep 13, 2003)

Mike in Ohio said:


> Fordy,
> 
> That is simply not true. It depends on the language of the easement in the titlework.
> 
> Mike



.............Well , I've observed several natural gas pipelines being dug under those large power line towers right here in Ft. Worth , tarrant county , tx ! I'm sure different states have different rules but it is happening and will happen more as time goes by . In congested residential neighborhoods some natural gas producers are using imminent domain to force homeowners too allow them too lay pipelines across their property . , fordy


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## Mike in Ohio (Oct 29, 2002)

fordy said:


> .............Well , I've observed several natural gas pipelines being dug under those large power line towers right here in Ft. Worth , tarrant county , tx ! I'm sure different states have different rules but it is happening and will happen more as time goes by . In congested residential neighborhoods some natural gas producers are using imminent domain to force homeowners too allow them too lay pipelines across their property . , fordy




The use of eminent domain by gas companies is a different issue than what you stated. You stated that the Power companies were selling access for pipelines based on an easement they have for electric lines.

Mike


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## Callieslamb (Feb 27, 2007)

Welcome POM!!! Hope you enjoy our company.

We have huge power lines crossing our place. As in held up by those 4-legged metal towers - which are on either side of our place. Luckily, no poles are on our property. I have just made sure that a 16 ft wide truck can get to the power lines. A cattle panel makes a good gate for that. If they have to get in - they can. (so can the hay-maker's tractors). Other than that, don't plant anything under that can't survive being driven over many times. 

Do look at your easement statements, but I see no problem with grazing animals or having a garden there. You might as if they use sprays to keep the vegetation back. Don't put a building under the lines.


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## oneokie (Aug 14, 2009)

Mike in Ohio said:


> The use of eminent domain by gas companies is a different issue than what you stated. You stated that the Power companies were selling access for pipelines based on an easement they have for electric lines.
> 
> Mike


Most blanket easements have language that gives the easement holder the legal right to sublet the easement to any and every Tom, Dick, and Harry for any and all purposes, and the property owner has NO recourse.


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## Stann (Jan 2, 2005)

An easement on your property is a right for someone to use your property for a specific function. But, you still own the property. They just own the equipment on your property to conduct that function.

You say that there is a (sic) "designated as a legal easement for the power lines". Whether it's a written or unwritten (ie. prescriptive) easement, the power company likely has a right to use and maintain those power lines. The manner which it uses and maintains the power lines is up to the power company, practically speaking. You can always take the power company to court and dispute every little thing that the power company does, but it has more money than most of us to spend on it.

Definitely get a copy of the easement and look for anything unusual. Practically speaking, you might just want to call up the power company and talk to the "Power Company Lineman" (I forget what they call themselves) for your location and ask him what is usually acceptable. These guys just want to get their job done and get along with the folks. They're the guys who will do whatever it takes to accomplish their maintenance. I don't think that they 'll willfully damage your property, though.

I'm not a lawyer, but I'm just being practical. Good luck.


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## Mike in Ohio (Oct 29, 2002)

Stann, the person to get ahold of is the "land agent".

Mike


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## rambler (Jan 20, 2004)

It's easiest to make hay or other crops on land like this. Every 10-30 years it might get driven on - they will have a right to access their poles. They also have the right/obligation to control weeds and trees on that easement, so they may spray if you aren't using it.

No way will the easement get moved. You think your neighbor wants the poles? You know how many $$$ that would be for 'someone' to pay? What are you thinking? 

The company has the use of the land to maintain & operate their electric line. You have some limited use of the land that won't interfere with the power lines. 

Some of that will be written down in the wording of the easement, so start by getting a copy of the easement. It should be on your deed.

Fencing and so forth sometimes works fine, sometimes it's a trouble. Depends on your individual easement wording & the utility you are dealing with.

--->Paul


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## texican (Oct 4, 2003)

You can grow anything you want on the ROW... however, IF they need to access the ROW for whatever reason, they'd be within their rights.

You can go off grid if you want to (which is a very expensive proposition especially if your on grid now)... but ROW's pretty much last forever. When you bought your property (if you got title insurance) there should be a listing of all encumbrances, including ROW's.

Someone, in the past, granted the easements for the power lines... either granted, or were condemned into easements... and those agreements supersede later owner's wishes.

I can do anything I want on the land under my power line easements. I even built a lake under a power line... luckily one of their sets of poles was on a peninsula that sticks out in the lake... They didn't necessarily like it, but I showed them how to access the lake locked pole... now there's no problem. Only thing I cant do is build permanent buildings. Could probably get away with a goat shed, but don't necessarily want goats congregating under the wires that much.... and the once a year visit by hispanics wanting to mow the row... they look at the lake, and I tell them they need to make sure to mow those underwater weeds growing under their lines...


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## Stann (Jan 2, 2005)

Mike in Ohio said:


> Stann, the person to get ahold of is the "land agent".
> 
> Mike


Hi Mike,
What's the "land agent"? The person that I spoke with, in my own situation, was the actual "Lineman", who worked the power lines. I don't remember them using that term. Are they the same?


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## citilivin (Mar 21, 2006)

I can't speak specifically for NY, but I am sure they are similar to CA. You need to get a copy of the easement. You need to read the "words" of the easement. This will tell what can be done within the easement. It will also state what the utility easement can do with the easement. It must be specific. If they do anything other than what is written, you may have recourse to be paid for that specific use. Your chances of having the easement abandoned is likely nill. Also, I am concerned about my health and the health of my family, but there are no bonifide studies that prove EMFs are health hazards. I have worked for years as an appraiser in CA working on easement acquisitions. I work for both sides, so I don't have a prejudice one way or another. Maybe one day there will be studies showing adverse conditions, but as of now there are no reliable studies showing EMFs are hazardous. Believe me, if there were I would use them.


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## Stann (Jan 2, 2005)

Citilivin,
Hope you don't mind me asking, but I curious, how do you appraise the value of a power line easement. My property has no written easement (ie. prescriptive) and a power line through it, and I know it'll never be given up.

I don't want to give details, sorry. Can you provide a general idea of a power line easement's value? Any way for an amateur (myself) to look it up? Thanks.


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## Nevada (Sep 9, 2004)

Plain Old Mike said:


> Power Company Right of Way


Your thread title indicates that there's a right-of-way, while your post says it's an easement. From what you said the utility companies evidently have an easement.

The provisions of the easement will be spelled-out in the granting document. If it's a right-of-way then the utility companies would have taken right-of-way by either statutory right or by order of a court, without your granting anything. In the case of a right-of-way, the provisions will be spelled out in the laws of your particular state, or in the granting court order.

I'm reminded of a time when a neighbor and I were watching the phone company prepare to run a new service trunk along a property line. The neighbor asked, "Where's it going to go?" The phoneco guy replied, "We have a 6-foot right-of-way right through here [pointing along the property line]."

The neighbor countered, "In the first place it's 4 feet, not 6 feet. In the second place it's mine, not yours. I only let you use it. Finally, it's an easement, not a right-of-way, and there IS a difference."

It's always good to know what you're talking about.


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## oneokie (Aug 14, 2009)

Stann said:


> Hi Mike,
> What's the "land agent"? The person that I spoke with, in my own situation, was the actual "Lineman", who worked the power lines. I don't remember them using that term. Are they the same?



Also known as Right of Way Agent or Real Estate Services Agent.


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## oneokie (Aug 14, 2009)

Nevada said:


> Your thread title indicates that there's a right-of-way, while your post says it's an easement. From what you said the utility companies evidently have an easement.
> 
> The provisions of the easement will be spelled-out in the granting document. If it's a right-of-way then the utility companies would have taken right-of-way by either statutory right or by order of a court, without your granting anything. In the case of a right-of-way, the provisions will be spelled out in the laws of your particular state, or in the granting court order.
> 
> ...


Most utility easements, (powerline, gas line, sewer, water, telephone) have a stipulation that grants a temporary easement for construction and repair that is half the width of the permanent easement.


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## Mike in Ohio (Oct 29, 2002)

oneokie said:


> Also known as Right of Way Agent or Real Estate Services Agent.





Stann said:


> Hi Mike,
> What's the "land agent"? The person that I spoke with, in my own situation, was the actual "Lineman", who worked the power lines. I don't remember them using that term. Are they the same?


The land agent is the person or department for the utility that is responsible for handling rights of way, easements, relations with property owners, etc. They may also be responsible for dealing/contracting with the subcontractors that keep the ROW clear of growth, etc.

So basically everything to do with land dealings.

Mike


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## oneokie (Aug 14, 2009)

Mike in Ohio said:


> The land agent is the person or department for the utility that is responsible for handling rights of way, easements, relations with property owners, etc. They may also be responsible for dealing/contracting with the subcontractors that keep the ROW clear of growth, etc.
> 
> So basically everything to do with land dealings.
> 
> Mike


Different states, depends on the particular Company and what title they have for that person.


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## mamagoose (Nov 28, 2003)

Plain Old Mike,

I promise you that the electric (or gas) companies do not care if you are off grid or not. We've been off grid since we built our log cabin in 1991. Last summer, after a long eminent domain battle now sitting in the Ohio Supreme Court, the electric spent $128,000 (by their figures of $8,000/half day X 8 full 10-hour days) to cut down over 100 of our trees along 1500', is required to pay us $54,000, which we have only received half to date, not to mention the $100,000+ in our legal fees for which we have never been reimbursed, no doubt twice that for them, and all because we told them we would not grant them an easement unless it was underground across our property. It would have cost less than $35,000 to trench the line underground (at consumer cost and including labor) and the line extension was for the electric company's telecommunication tower, so they were their own customer, which would obviously been a lot less. And there would be no trees to keep trimmed.

The AEP engineer told DH last summer while staking that they could have easily buried the line, but that they intended to "make an example out of you people."

I talked to a local guy today who his beginning a battle with them. They are re-routing lines to in front of his home and he had paid to have all existing lines buried when he bought the place. He told of a story where the electric company removed a pole from near an abandoned (but liveable) house on their own, then charged the next inhabitant $1,200 to re-run the line and set a pole back to the house. 

The short of it is, they are the power gods and they make sure you know it. They were so arrogant as to completely ignore the permit process for working in a public roadway. I have filed a citizen's complaint against them and it is pending. The township trustees had told them it would have to be buried, but they would also first have to get our permission.

We never wanted anything to do with their money. We just want our trees and our once scenic landscape back. 7 poles now are in our pasture fields and still surrounded by 80-100-foot tall trees. If we can ever afford to move our next place will have NO easements or leases or right-of-ways of any kind.

These companies are so far from green. Look around. Wires everywhere. Could that be the "web" the Hopi's refer to? (or is it this one?) 

I wish I was more enlightening to your inquiry.

mamagoose


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## Harry Chickpea (Dec 19, 2008)

Hoop said it plain and simple. Kudos to Hoop.

You bought land with an easement. If you had bought land away from a road that had an easement for access to that road across someone else's property, you would fight tooth and nail to keep that easement, and you would likely win. Easements are legal and they serve a legitimate purpose.

If you bought property that had an easement for an abandoned railroad line, and the railroad decided to start operations back up again and run a train every hour of the day, you would have to deal with that. Easements are legal and they serve a legitimate purpose.

It all comes back to PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY. Do your homework when buying land or anything else. Other folks expect you to do so. If you don't like the power line, sell your property and buy property that doesn't have an easement.

Our property has an easement for a street, a power line, a phone line, and a water line. We bought knowing of those easements. I have no intention of cutting off anyone else's phone, power, water, or access to assuage my sense of aesthetics. As a conservative, I tend to think before I buy.


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## AR Transplant (Mar 20, 2004)

we watched the electric company clear out 15 feet of beautiful trees straight through our new neighbors a few years ago, but when they started in on the super rich people's trees across from us they only made it to two trees before they were forced to stop by the owner. 

Six months after that the electric came to my door and said, we're going to run poles down your property by the road because it's easier for us, OK ?

I said, never in a million years will you get easement from us, use the one you already have across the street. And they acted like I was just a mean old lady.

Easement rights are abused and I would avoid them at all cost.


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## highlands (Jul 18, 2004)

Ask the power company. Read the easement. I did both. Ours would dearly love us to fence it and pasture there. I don't because it is too far from our other pastures and they won't help pay for the fencing. So they end up having to mow it since I won't allow them to use herbicides. I have that control. I don't get power from them. Wish I did get some sort of lease payment. Bummer. I pay the taxes even. Their high tensile lines make the land useless for much of anything other than Christmas tress, pasture or wildlife. So wildlife it is.

Cheers

-Walter
Sugar Mountain Farm
Pastured Pigs, Sheep & Kids
in the mountains of Vermont
Read about our on-farm butcher shop project:
http://SugarMtnFarm.com/butchershop
http://SugarMtnFarm.com/csa


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## ChristieAcres (Apr 11, 2009)

Good thread to post! For those who haven't purchased yet, or who are currently dealing with challenges in knowing more about the easements on their land, there is excellent info being posted  

When I married DH, I started reading his paperwork, including Title Report. I was very disappointed to learn there were a road easement that was 20 feet from the edge of two of the sides (beautiful row of 30 foot trees growing in the easement that will someday be logged), an easement for the Community Well (serving 6 families) on his property, and easements along the water line that ran across 25% of the property. Since BSA's require a primary drainfield and a secondary drainfield for the septic system, and setback from the well of 150 feet? I determined there was no place to build on his 1.04 acre parcel! Since there was a single wide mobile, put in back in the 1970s (with roof over it), and a garage next to it, those were grandfathered in. Then I also discovered the mineral rights had been sold, too. Around here, you can buy plenty of properties with mineral rights intact! I submitted a BSA and it was approved, due to the grandfathered location of the mobile home. If not for that, the property wasn't buildable! We put it up for sale, but it didn't sell, so we rented it out.

Then, we bought our current property. Out of 6.68 acres, only easement is along one edge for a power pole (with driveway not on our land). Our power lines are underground. We own the mineral rights and happily don't have the common wetland issues. 

Great idea on the lake, Texican!

Here in WA, Adverse Possession would make an easement for a power co if the line is on your property for 10 years. They wouldn't have to buy it.


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## Plain Old Mike (Feb 5, 2010)

Sorry it took so long to respond...
Thanks for all the great advice and my sympathies to all those in more dire and extreme situations than ours. Our intention was never to battle the power company (perhaps educate their tree removal crews for the future would be nice...good luck), we just wondered what others might know. We only found out about the easement at closing, and felt that the overall amount of land effected wasn't a deal breaker. We only hope to form a better understanding of usage. To that extent, the power company has offered to send someone (land agent?) to assess our situation, beyond the standard "we suggest you plant _x_ type of trees at _y_ distance from lines. (By the way, they are not the "tower" type of lines, just a simple pole and line through to our nearest neighbor and beyond to two more parcels.) I had always figured getting the poles out would be near impossible, but as such they are a neccessary and minor "evil". Oh, and it is an easement, not right of way, a copy of the easement being on its way to us as we speak.My thanks to those who have been kind enough to respond with grace, civility and understanding.


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## Plain Old Mike (Feb 5, 2010)

I never claimed this to be about aesthetics, simply a question of practical use for a piece of our property that would not interfere with an existing, albeit outside, use. As first time home buyers, we did alright for ourselves in the homework department, we just seek some help from a like minded community, thats all. A suggestion that we did not think before we bought, or an assumption that we may not be "conservative" minded I didn't find helpful or neccessary. I hope i'm not being thin skinned here, the tone just seemed not to match our quiries.


Harry Chickpea said:


> Hoop said it plain and simple. Kudos to Hoop.
> 
> You bought land with an easement. If you had bought land away from a road that had an easement for access to that road across someone else's property, you would fight tooth and nail to keep that easement, and you would likely win. Easements are legal and they serve a legitimate purpose.
> 
> ...


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## blooba (Feb 9, 2010)

Also it is advised to post the property if you do not want it sprayed with herbicides if you are going to use it. I have seen simple DO NOT SPRAY signs up but I think you should contact them and ask for the proper procedures. Otherwise they will just go through and spray away. You wouldn't want your animals eating sprayed grass.


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## rambler (Jan 20, 2004)

Plain Old Mike said:


> I never claimed this to be about aesthetics, simply a question of practical use for a piece of our property that would not interfere with an existing, albeit outside, use. As first time home buyers, we did alright for ourselves in the homework department, we just seek some help from a like minded community, thats all. A suggestion that we did not think before we bought, or an assumption that we may not be "conservative" minded I didn't find helpful or neccessary. I hope i'm not being thin skinned here, the tone just seemed not to match our quiries.


The topic you brought up kinda runs the whole gambit - some have had real issues with being able to get power/utilites; while others have been seriously run over by utilities condemning the entire property & building their line or utility wherever they want & not getting around to paying for it for 3 years, and then at far less than book value. Some utilities are pretty nice, and some are real buggers, running down fences & driving where thay shouldn't, clearing trees where thay shouldn't, etc.

Around 'here' any more, the utilities are given free range, and can just go ahead. It's not like anyone can 'give' permission or not - good luck to those who think they own their own land. If a utility needs to be built, you just get out of the way......

Your question was good, it's just on a rather sensitive topic.

don't take any of the replies, including mine, to heart. It's not _you_ people are grumbling to; it is past experiences, the frustration of personal dealing, etc. that is coming out.

Good question, thanks for following up with a bit more info, and don't take anything badly. This is just typical of an issue that has hit some of us pretty badly over the years, our chance to grumble and gripe. You openned the door, nothing is really aimed at you.

Welcome to the forum. 

--->Paul


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## tab (Aug 20, 2002)

Welcome, POM. I too live in NY. If you live anywhere near Lake Ontario you may be in line (pun intended) for a much bigger battle. I won't high jack you thread unless it pertains to you. I am in great fear that all of our property may be reduced to nothing due to a project for "green power".

We used to have an two easements with I believe a forty foot ROW for two main gas lines. We were restricted as to what we could build, not in the ROW, and plant. They would do aerial inspections and mechanical clearing. So glad we got rid of that parcel. It is increasingly difficult to find property without some kind of easement attached to it.


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## Harry Chickpea (Dec 19, 2008)

"I hope i'm not being thin skinned here, the tone just seemed not to match our quiries."

Perhaps, looking back at your original post, mine was more influenced by the early responses than it should have been. If that offended, I apologize that the tone was abrupt. Some of those responses started to trigger a hot button for me, where they forced remembrance that the quiet and beautiful area where I grew up, where people could do what they wanted with and on their properties, was taken over by outsiders who started in with restrictions and trying to destroy infrastructure to get unimpeded views. "What can we do about these ugly and dangerous high tension power lines?" was one of the mantras.


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## Plain Old Mike (Feb 5, 2010)

My bad... and I can clearly see your point. I gather that for some it has/can be a bitter issue. Ours (thankfully so far) hasn't been an epic tragedy, and judging by the response from the power company (providing we remain realistic in our expectations) they have been open to our questions regarding use. I will keep everyone informed on our progress. Thanks!


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## Sandi (Oct 4, 2011)

my in laws live in an "intentional community" with about 25 families, each with an acre, and 75 acres of common land. they negotiated 30 years ago with the power company not to spray under the lines in order to do organic gardening and they've stuck to it for all that time. we are lucky it is a small cooperative because the Big Dog power company for sure would have been more difficult to deal with. just don't plant perennials because they could destroy it at any time.


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## Whisperwindkat (May 28, 2009)

You can grow anything under the lines that don't and won't interfere with the lines. You can keep stock under the lines. However, you cannot have the lines removed and whatever damage they cause to your crops or livestock you just have to suck up. My experience with the power company was that when they decided the lines needed to be cleaned they came through two closed gates into my pasture with my broodmares. they used my front yard instead of the drive that went around the house to one of the gates, thus tearing deep ruts in the yard. They sprayed vegetation in the pasture, left their garbage from lunch in my pasture and all the trash from the trees that they trimmed. Then they left without closing the gates behind them. I came home had all the mess to clean up and later that night when I went to check on my pregnant mares one was down in her stall and having convulsions. She was dead the next morning and the autopsy concluded that she had been poisoned. I had 5 neighbors on this road that lost either horses or cows all on the same day or within less than 24 hours of the power company being on their land. I lost that mare and her baby and one of the other mares aborted. None of us could get anything out of the power company. So be forewarned. We now keep the line across that corner of the pasture cleared so they have no reason to come onto our property unless they need to repair something. Blessings, Kat


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## goatlady (May 31, 2002)

I have a 100' transmission line easement at the far end of my 20. I chatted with the power company line guys doing upgrade work a couple years ago and found out I can most certainly use all the land on that easement and I can certainly fence it in as long as they can get their equipment through a gate. I ended up on their list to have THEM install their preferred gate and posts. Took a few years to get around to me, but last Friday low and behold, a beautiful steel pole double gate, cemented square posts and also steel poles going out from those posts 10' on either side of the gate are now in place. They also brush hogged the "pasture" for me so it is now ready for some upgrade work itself. They had also, earlier in the month, send a tree trimming crew out to clear all the lines, right up to the house, and then proceeded to chip all the trimmings, so no mess. Then a different crew came out and brush hogged all under the lines all the way to the house which was a big help to spiffy things up all along the driveway. I have absolutely NO complaints regarding my local power company at all. All American crews, polite, informative, clean and quick work all around.


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## Terri (May 10, 2002)

Your deed should spell out what they can do in the right of way. Re-read that! 

We are dealing with this now. Our easement allows them to be on our land but it does not give them permission to build a road. But, they want to upgrade to stronger lines and replace poles with larger ones, and to bring the equipment through the right of way needs more rights than what they have. So, they bought the right to put in a temporary road from us. They will take out our fencing and so they will temporarily fence off the road so our dog does not get out. 

They offered us $2000 for the change to the easement, and after seeing that the temporary fence was written into the contract, AND after asking them to clarify in writing the borders of the easement, we agreed. 

*IF* we hadn't they could have gone to court an asked the courts to condemn the easement, as the city needs more power. If the courts decided that their offer was fair they could have ordered us to accept it. But, we considered their offer to be fair to build a temporary road on a single acre, an we did accept it.

Most of my apple trees were where they wanted to put the road and so they cut them last week. I will miss those trees, but I believe that I will now go to dwarfs. I am getting a little old to be climbing ladders, and dwarf trees yield earlier anyways. My one remaining apple tree will just have to produce well this year! 

In the future I will raise annual vegetables on it. 

They have not had equipment back there for the 20 years that I have owned it, and I pruned those apples hard to keep them well below the lines so that the power company would not remove them. They had no right to remove trees that did not threaten the lines. 

Again, read the description of the easement on your deed. It should spell out what they can or cannot do.



Plain Old Mike said:


> ALSO... is there any kind of legal precident anyone knows of that were we to go completly off grid and were no longer using their services, could we, and most likely a lawyer, politely ask them to remove the poles from our land?


Somewhere in the past, the electric company PAID for the easement to be on your land. You would have to buy it back, and if they sell it back I will eat my hat. Taking those lines down would cut many people off of electrical service as well as cutting the electric company off from their profits from those customers. They would lose money and your neighbors would be cut off, and so the electic company simply will not agree to vacate the easement.


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## fantasymaker (Aug 28, 2005)

:nono:


Harry Chickpea said:


> If you bought property that had an easement for an abandoned railroad line, and the railroad decided to start operations back up again and run a train every hour of the day, you would have to deal with that. .


NOPE! Not at all. 
(the key word here is abandoned)



Harry Chickpea said:


> As a conservative, I tend to think before I buy.


Thinking is fine but knowing what your thinking about is better..you might want to actually look into what your thinking/talking about.


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