# Sticky  Pre - SHTF, beginning gardening (land and no-land)



## AngieM2

Hi all - due to 
http://www.homesteadingtoday.com/showthread.php?p=5180666#post5180666

We are going to give this a try.

On this thread I hope all the gardeners that are currently growing food can give the help and ideas to get people started on providing for themselves.
Maybe list some of the first basic plants and how to grow them - especially from different parts of the country or world, so we may figure how some items grow in our areas.

Also, there's the aspect of someone having some acres, some having a backyard, and maybe some just having containers on a patio; or hiding them in the neighborhood - etc.

So, please - go for it, this is the 1st of the Monday threads.

Angie


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## Ernie

Having trouble deciding what to grow?

Take a look at your grocery receipts. What are the most common vegetables on it? Cabbages? Carrots? Potatos? Tomatos? Pick 3-4 and grow just THOSE as a start. If those vegetables are 80% of your produce bill at the grocery store, by providing those alone you'd be reducing your bill by that much.


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## Sonshine

The easiest vegetables I have found to grow, no matter where we've been stationed, has always been beans (just about any kind, and as long as you keep them picked they will produce for quite some time), tomatoes, greens of just about any kind, and like the beans, they will grow all through the summer and usually well into the fall. If you want to grow corn, planting beans with them helps provide nitrogen, which corn needs to be healthy. Corn is a heavy feeder, so it's a little more effort to grow.


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## myheaven

I would say grow potatoes. They are super easy to grow and can be grown in old tires 5 gallon buckets, old no good hay, leaves, compost and can be grown from potatoes that have sprouted. Russets, reds and kenabec are great keepers. Potatoes kept many people in the depression from starving and trust me it has streched many a meal for our family.
You can, can, freeze, dry and store potatoes. make a milk gravy and you have a hearty breakfast. thin down the gravy and you have a good hearty soup. add 2 strips of bacon to 5 sliced and fried potatoes and you have a meal fit for a king. add green beans, peas and corn to taters and you can make just about any soup, casserol, chowder, stew or pot pie. Depends on the gravy and how thick you make it what it will be.
If you can grow your garden up. Trellis everything you can. But make sure you dont block the sun from other plants. Beans, peas, cucumbers, small cantalope and watermelons plus some winter squash is good to trellis like delecta squash. 5 delecta squash plants yeilded 250 lbs of squash. Delecta is open polinated and is herloom, a good keeper at about 65-75deg f. It tastes very sweet. My family loves it. But delecta squash will cross with butter nut and any other squash in c.pepo family.
I prefer pole varity of beans and peas. In my area I get more per trellised(if that is a word) vine per inch than a bush plant.
Inter crop anything you can.Get the most per square foot. What ever you trellis up find a plant you can plantat that trellised plant "feet"
Square foot gardening by Mel Bartholmuel(sp) is a greatbook. I have only the origanal book he has put out, many new copies but I have never read them. 
Mulch as much as you can. it wll drasticly cut back on your need to water and weed and trust me you wont have extra time during shtf. 
Grow only what you will eat. Save the experimenting for when you have a ton of extra food stored. 
Greens are criticle for healthy blood and is a must for pregnant and nursing moms. You can dry the greens to store for winter and add to casserols soups and stews. Oh plus spagetti. Tomatos are great to grow, super easy to can and are a staple to many dishes. I prefer ox heart for my sauce and diced tomato canning projects. they git up into the 2 lbs range and have very few seeds. I like the beef steak type for my tomato juice. They are big and juicy. with tomatosmulch is a must almost any much will work but they need adiquate water. to produce properly.
Use as much safe grey water as you can on your garden. Water from your showers and bathes should be saved filtered and put into your garden. Start to filter your water threw and wound string filter or old rag filter and learn to make a bio sand filter. Look up bio sand filter on you tube and you can learn to make them very easly. You can even drink they grey water once its treated.
Find any way you can to capture rainwater for your garden. Or divert it to the garden some states it is against the law to harvest rain water.

Plants need 8 hrs of sun a day and first morning sun is the best. it is not as intense and less likely to burn the plants. keep a journal of where the shadows fall on your area you wish to plant a garden. Or where you haveit planted make it a month by month and track every hour on you "day off" you only need to track about once a month to know how your sun will cast shadows.

Well thats what I have for now.


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## gracie88

Good books - Gardening When It Counts:Growing Food in Hard Times by Steve Solomon, The Ruth Stout No-Work Garden Book: Secrets of the Famous Year-Round Mulch Method - Different but effective techniques in both of these, makes it easier to figure out the appropriate methods for your own piece of dirt. 
Carrots Love Tomatoes: Secrets of Companion Planting for Successful Gardening - If you're short on space, you can at least find plants that won't actively interfere with each other, even if it doesn't work the miracles the author claims.

Also, this is very good advice:


> What are the most common vegetables on it? Cabbages? Carrots? Potatos? Tomatos? Pick 3-4 and grow just THOSE as a start.


 but I would add, go ahead and plant one thing new just for fun. This year mine is yacon, I'm intrigued by perennial veggies. Sometimes we do weird colors (purple beans, purple cauliflower, purple carrots) I say it's to amuse the kids... It's easier if it's fun.


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## Spinner

If your space is limited, try growing vertical. All vine plants can be grown on trellis or fence. Melons will need to have support (like little hammocks for them to lay in.) 

I like growing in small plots instead of long rows. I have the big gardens because I have enough space to have them, but my favorite plants are the ones in small areas under trees, beside buildings, and in little out of the way spots. I put different varieties of tomatoes in various areas. 

Many veggies only need about 4 hours of sunlight a day. I've grown great tomatoes in areas that only get 2 1/2 hours of mid morning sunlight. If you live in the south where gardens are in danger of being burnt up during the heat of summer, planting in shaded areas can extend the season throughout the hottest part of the summer. 

Salads can be grown on a patio in a 1/2 barrel. A tomato plant, some leaf lettuce, radishes, onions, and other salad veggies can all go into the pot. 

Potatoes can be grown in boxes. Start with a couple plants in a bottomless box. As the plant grows, add another box and fill with more soil or straw, leaving the top of the plant exposed to continue growing. Repeat with more boxes as the plants get taller. You can stack the boxes as high as you feel comfortable with. When harvest time comes, remove the top box and harvest the potatoes, repeating until you have harvested all the way to the bottom box. 

I haven't tried this yet, but I'm thinking that some of the boxes could be offset leaving little triangles open on the sides. Then another plant could be put in the opening. Maybe some lettuce, a bell pepper, strawberry or other plant that is compatible with potatoes.


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## OnlyMe

What I'm writing is for the first time gardener - very first time. 
I'm very new to this myself & am somewhat frugal so I thought I'd share just a few things I've already learned...

Starting out with some young plants from a nursery (Lowes & HD carry them) can be a good entry point. If you and your family like tomatoes that's a good place to start. Plant them in containers (I recommend 1 plant per pot) - either formal pots or 5 gal buckets will do & in large pots I put a "filler" in the bottom such as rocks - it aids in drainage and reduces the amount of soil I need to buy. Using containers allows you to simply buy gardening soil in a bag. Tilling, digging & soil testing aren't needed & it's easier to control the weeds. Keep them watered and have fun. You'll probably need a stake at some point - a stick and some twine work well for me but there are inexpensive cages as well. I like putting the stake in early - when I do the planting so I don't risk damaging the roots later. Once the plants start producing you may have a lot of tomatoes which is why I recommend only a couple of plants to start (unless you can food in which case the sky is the limit - well that and how many jars are on hand). 

Waiting for seeds to sprout & checking them everyday looking for a "hint" of green is fun but there is more room for error & in the northeast I only get one shot & lack confidence. LOL. I've just planted some herbs indoors from seed & this will hopefully give me something to look forward to after the tomato season comes to an end. 

Have fun & give it a try.


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## mekasmom

It's easier to grow potatoes on a layer of straw, then cover with a layer of straw. When you want to harvest, just pull back the old dead vines then move the straw to get to the taters. Much less digging in dirt that way.

After I am done planting everything, I toss lettuce seeds all around to grow like a ground cover. If one or two happen to get stepped on that's not the end of the world. It takes less room than growing lettuce in row after straight row, and as a ground cover it cuts down on weeds quite a bit.

If plants go to seed..... Then leave them set and save the seeds. I've seen so many people pull up and toss radish plants when they start to bloom. It's better to just leave them and let them make seeds.

I have better luck with brussel sprout plants than with cabbage plants. You can't make cole slaw from them, but the bugs don't eat them either. We don't use pesticides, so those cabbage leaves full of holes stand out like a sore thumb.


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## Ohio dreamer

When we live in Europe we grew many veggies on a second floor back patio (the patio got hot enough in the summer that it would burn your feet in just a few seconds). The weather was hot and dry so there were days when I watered both day and night. Tomato and peppers did very well as did lettuce, chives and basil. We even had a watermelon growing in a pot hanging on the rail (it had been spit there by a kid in the spring and it grew!). Even now I always have a pepper or tomato growing in a pot on the steps of the deck.


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## kaitala

As a beginning gardener, all the information available may seem overwhelming at first. From organics to chemicals, soil types, USDA zones, etc., the abundance of knowledge available is enough to confound even seasoned gardeners. Fortunately, not all of it must be absorbed at once. Take it slowly, and skim what you read at first. Soon, you'll discover your style (organic? embracing man-made fertilizers? Square foot? Rows? Region of the country? Type of soil?), most likely after just a few articles or books, and begin to research your style in depth.

If your only option is container gardening,that is quite a different animal than in earth gardening. While many of the same principles apply, this is written to embrace in earth gardening.

Before you even break ground, you'll need some knowledge about your own property. Start by consulting the USDA hardiness zone map. While there may be slight variations within zones, you'll be able to find your general growing conditions.

The type of soil on which you reside is as important as the zone in which you reside. While different plants may require different nutrient balances for optimal fruiting, a generally good and balanced soil, in both composition and nutrients, is your best starting point. Refinement for specific crops can come later. 

Soil is composed of Sand, Clay, Silt and Loam. For more information on these, and how to test your soil, check out this link. Acid/Alkaline balance, or pH, is also important. One great resource for soil testing is your local agricultural extension office. You can bring in a soil sample for testing and they can give you a great analysis for just a few dollars.

The two things your garden will need in addition to good soil are sun, and water. Many crops will thrive in less than the 6-8 hours of sun that is often recommended. Scout a location for your garden that does get good sun, perhaps that comes into shade late in the afternoon in the hotter portions of the country, or sheltered on the north side with a good southern exposure farther north. The best choice is a sunny spot that is also near to your water supply, be it the hose, well, or rainbarrel. Minimize the work necessary to get water to your plants.




More later, I have to tend my own garden for a while!


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## Freeholder

Another book I would recommend is The Resilient Gardener by Carol Deppe. 

If you are gardening in the West, DON'T use raised beds. They dry out much faster than sunken beds, which are usually best for Western regions. Also, space your plants farther apart than what the package or the books say, so they won't have so much competition for water. 

I'll add more later if I have time -- we are still cleaning and painting to get ready for realtors coming tomorrow!

Kathleen


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## Billie in MO

Some thoughts I had were already given by others.

Two things I try to do are plant one new item I have never tried, be it planting or eating, never know when the taste buds might change and something you didn't like you now do. I eat things now I never would when I was a kid. This year it is eggplant. I've only eaten it a couple times.

Second is I always plant something fun. I have a weakness for mini popcorn. I've grown strawberry popcorn, mini blue popcorn, mini pink popcorn, mini indian corn. In the past I've also done spanish peanuts, ornamental cotton, ornamental gourds for drying, mini pumpkins. This year I am trying Jack Be Little pumpkins and Baby Bear pumpkins. Have an extra spot outside the fence for them.


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## Pouncer

You'll love those Baby Bears, they make great pies, lol

Here's some more tips and advice: Before anything else-know your hardiness zone! It does you no good to buy seeds for long, warm season foods and live in Zone 3, like me.

Understand that seed packets generally list days to maturity AFTER the seedling is in it's final spot (Yes there are some exceptions, like greens, but this is a good rule of thumb nonetheless) Even so, if you are in northern latitudes, you will need to start many things indoors if you hope to harvest by first frosts. The smaller the hardiness zone number, the shorter you need the "days to maturity". For me, this works out to around 90 days, tops.

You can plant a vegetable in almost any container of sufficient size. Several people I know are experimenting with pallets and PVC pipe this year. Don't over look anything that will hold soil and still drain off excess water. In general, almost every vegetable needs 8 hours of direct sunlight to really thrive-but, you can usually get some "fruits" if the best you can do is dappled sun, or six hours. Many things can be planted in hanging baskets too, such as cucumbers, tomatoes, many herbs, etc. You can add lengths of chain or even just zip ties, to lower the height of the basket for easier tending and picking later in the season. There's no rule that says baskets have to be at a certain height either, remember? 

You can plant a LOT of lettuce in a 12 inch bowl, and have another one for radishes or whatever. I have two lettuce bowls and a tumbler tom at my front door so that summer time salad fixin's are just a few steps away from the kitchen. 

Another note: If you are hoping to store the fruits of your labors to use over the winter, get educated about proper preservation and storage. I am growing only pumpkins and winter squashes that I know winter very well (good for long term storage) so I plan on bringing them to work and putting them on the cold concrete floor


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## SquashNut

learn the micro climates in your yard. part of my yard is blocked by the house and will get good sun from June- august. Before and after that you cann't grow anything there.
Divide your crops into things that take alot of hands on work and those that don't. That way you can do some of both. Increasing the yeild.


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## Wisconsin Ann

There are some great pieces of advice above, and I'd only add a couple of things. 

Learn what was planted successfully in your area a century ago. Those veggies/fruits will grow for you with very little effort. 

Learn what is a "full sun" plant (most veggies) and what can grow in the shade (mushrooms, for instance). Make use of whatever space you have. It's amazing how many mushrooms you'll get from one log, placed on a sawhorse, in a shady nook. 

Fertilizer....it's FREE! find a rabbit person, or a chicken person, and ask for manure. hooooboy! Rabbit pellets/droppings are ready to put right on the garden. Or around a new plant. Most other manures aren't..they need to set for a few months to "cool down" or they harm the plants. 

And finally...don't over do. Start small. Learn how long it takes you to weed your garden and take care of it. Get the kids involved. There's nothing worse than planting a 1/4acre of veggies, and a couple of months later sadly looking at the overgrown weed patch that you need to till under and start over with. Weeding a couple of rows of veggies is 20minute job. Weeding a 1/4 acre is all day.


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## kirkmcquest

Good advice from Kaitala...especially in regards to scouting your garden spot. My first choice of a garden years ago looked great in early spring when no leaves were on the tree...by late spring it was completely shaded! Give alot of consideration to your garden spot and how the sun will trace the sky in summer and what will happen when the leaves grow in.

Others have already said it but I'll weigh in on the side of potatoes for the novice grower. They are very hardy and tolerant of alot of different soil types. Just remember to keep hilling them and rotate every couple of seasons. I vote beans as a close second because they are also easy and full of protein. With taters and beans and the occasional piece of meat you can do alright.


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## SquashNut

consiter using some of your dry goods for seed. Sprouting potatoes, shriveled garlic, various dryed beans, whole dry peas, sweet potatoes, grains, all come to mind in a pinch. And could be used to produce a garden.

I have grown all of the above from my stash just to see how they would do.
Now is the time to figure out when to plant them and how long they take.

don't forget to look at the animal feed too. whole dent corn and sunflower seeds. Come to mind.


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## earthkitty

Keep your seeds in the freezer.

It keeps them dormant, and they will last longer. I planted some seeds this year that I had kept for over five years, maybe ten, Jackson Wonder beans.

They ALL sprouted, and are looking good. Amazing.


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## manygoatsnmore

Plant something every day and weed for 10 minutes. Seriously.

Every time you harvest, plant something else in the space. Read some of the recommended books here and see what can be planted for an early and a late crop in the same space. Doing this doubles the yield in the same space.

Doing a little weeding every day keeps it from becoming an overwhelming chore. I also use straw mulch to keep the weeds under control. Pulling weeds that grow through the mulch is much easier than weeding bare ground. Also, throwing MORE mulch on top the weeds smothers them.

Garden smarter, not harder. Use soaker hoses under the mulch to keep the water where it's needed. You use less water and the mulch does double duty as a weed blocker and an insulating layer for the soil, keeping the moisture from evaporating away.

If you have access to materials to make raised beds, I highly recommend building at least a few. Don't spend a fortune making them, though. Keep your eyes and ears open, get the word out, and you can often find FREE materials. I find that about 3 to 3.5' wide is a good width for a raised bed, and no more than 16-20' long without some way to get to the other side. Otherwise, you spend a lot of time walking around those long beds. Never walk in the soil of your raised bed after you are done building it - it compacts the soil and makes it harder for the roots to penetrate.

Raised beds can be done in the drier regions, but you have to be smart about it and use those soaker hoses and mulch. If you live in wetter regions and/or have clay soil, a raised bed can mean being able to garden much earlier than your neighbors, especially if you have a way to protect your tender plants from late frosts or unexpected nasty weather. Using 2' long, 1/2" rebar stakes and 3/4"-1" PVC pipe, cut to equal lengths, you can make hoops over your bed. Cut plastic to fit over the hoops and hang down to the soil all around. Clip it to the hoops - they make special clips for this or you can simply use spring clamps that come in a big bag at the hardware store. Use a box cutter to make vertical slits in the plastic. This allows some ventilation on really sunny days and keeps your plants from cooking, while still offering frost protection. The temps inside the hoophouse will be 10 degrees or more warmer than the outside air. If a really severe freeze threatens, throw a sheet or light blanket over the plastic for the night.

That same hoop idea helps at the other end of the season, too. Not only can you protect against the first frosts, which will often then give you another month of growing season, but they can also protect your tomato plants from late blight and splitting, by keeping the water off the foliage (blight) and keeping them from being overwatered by a rainstorm (splitting). To protect the tomatoes from rain, add a piece of plastic without slits in it.

If you are gardening in raised beds you can use a stock panel (bought at feed stores) or rebar wire panels (hardware store or builder's supply) to trellis your beans, cucumbers and other vining crops. Bend the panels into an upside down U and place them between the raised beds. You can anchor them if you want, but the raised beds themselves do a great job of bracing the panels and holding them in place. Plant your beans, etc, along the edges of the raised beds, next to the panels, and the plants will grow up and over the panels, making a lovely covered archway over the path, and making it really easy to pick the produce hanging down off the panel. That leaves the rest of the bed free for planting other vegies.

Those round, flimsy tomato cages are worthless for tomatoes, but they work well for peas. I also use the fold down square tomato cages for them. I open the square cages into a longer panel and grow my peas up them. I do have to guide the pea plants a bit to intertwine, but if I wasn't a lazy gardener, I'd string twine up and down them to guide them.


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## manygoatsnmore

More suggestions. 

Look around your neighborhood for healthy, productive looking gardens. Go visit when you see someone out in the garden, introduce yourself and explain that you are a new gardener, and are looking for advice from gardeners who have the experience you lack. You may hit a dud or 2, but most gardeners are very avid about it and are willing to share their knowledge with a beginner, especially one who isn't afraid to get in and get his or her hands dirty!

Check out the local and county fairs in your area, too. The superintendents of the garden/ag depts are often gardeners themselves and can offer some tips and pointers. I know in my state, the departments are encouraged to put up educational information throughout the exhibit area - study it! Look at the names of the exhibitors that are winning, and see if you know any of them. Strike up conversations with others browsing in the exhibit area, chances are, they are gardeners, too, and may be willing to share what they know. 

Your county extension office/Master Gardeners programs may offer classes, display gardens, and advice - check them out, too.

There is a lot of web based info out there - Garden Web, Dave's Garden, and many more. Shameless plug alert! If you sign up for swagbucks, you can earn points for searching on their browser, which is powered by Google and Ask,com, so you get all the goodies, plus you can earn swagbucks. I use my swagbucks to get Amazon gift cards - 450 points gets a $5 gift card, which you can then spend on preps.   Click on my link below and sign up - you'll get 30 swagbucks right off the bat. Check out the thread in the work at home businesses forum for more info. There is a lady there who is doing a LOT with swagbucks...I just do searches for things I'm looking for anyway, use the toolbar and a couple other things, and I'm already up to $15 in gift cards. I figure I'll wait until I have $25 in cards and then I will get free shipping on the prep items I add.  Okay, shameless plug over, returning you to your normally scheduled thread.

Shop garage sales and thrift stores for sheer curtains - these are GREAT in the garden! Use them to cover strawberries to keep the birds out of your hard-won fruit. Make a wood or wire frame, cover it with sheers and put it over your brassicas (cabbage, broccoli, cauliflower, brussel sprouts) to keep the cabbage moths from laying eggs on your plants. Those eggs hatch into zillions of little green worms, and unless you really need the added protein, you're better off to cover the plants and let them grow without being chomped by worms! (If you do get worms in your produce, soak it in salted water and the worms will die and be easier to wash out of the cauliflower, etc. Note I said easier, not easy, and not 100% guaranteed to get them all, lol.)

Using sheers, especially if you find colored ones, over your garden hoops in the harshest part of summer can protect them from burning and dying - think shade cloth, on the cheap. Look for white or light colored flat sheets for this, too.

I find most of my sheers at Goodwill. My local Goodwills have 1.29 (formerly .99) sales on a particular tag color each weekend, and another tag color is half off. I've found some really great bargains on sheers and sheets there. During the summer, of course, sheets and sheers are always on my list of items to look for at garage sales.

Put down cardboard or newspaper between your rows or beds. This will keep down weeds and keep the moisture from evaporating from the paths, making it available for your plants. I like to cover my paths between the raised beds with cardboard and then wood chips. Looks pretty, keeps the weeds down, makes a nice walking surface, and for me, they are free, as the chip trucks that haul to the paper mills unload their overlooked chips in a big pile in a parking area on my way to and from work. I drive my truck to work, bring along gloves, scoop shovel and something to cover the load, and stop in the morning to load up. A pickup load goes a long way. 

Gotta go to work, but I'll post more later.


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## City Bound

Wow,so many great ideas. great thread.

I like the idea of planting secret plants around your local area. I might try that.

I second pole beans, they just keep giving. Swiss chard is another giver.


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## Sonshine

Another suggestion I have been working towards is edible landscaping. I have blueberry hedges in front of my house. My herb garden is made up like a flower bed, complete with a fountain in the center and stepping stones. I planted a couple of rose bushes and some lavandar in it, along with my culinary and medicinal herbs. I had planned on making a second one this year, but time got away from me, so next year I'll make a second herbal flower bed. Looks pretty in the front yard.


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## kaitala

Tools are an essential part of gardening. Invest wisely in your tools and gardening will not only be easier, it will be more comfortable, more efficient, and yield much higher returns.

As a beginning gardener, you may not consider these tools, but your most important investment will be gloves. Not only will they protect your hands from abuse during gardening, but they will help your grip on tools and make the process more efficient. If you can, invest in several pair at once, and in two different types.

The heavier work gloves of an all leather or leather palm/fingers and canvas, with a wide sturdy cuff are wonderful for the work of clearing brush, digging, anything that, shall we say, is unrefined or "bulk" work. These gloves can usually be purchased in packs of a dozen at many local flea markets, farmer's markets, etc, at prices much more affordable than in the stores. They hold up well to machine washing, and one pack will usually find you with remaining gloves in the pack at the end of the gardening season. 

The other work gloves that come in quite handy are the plastic coated jersey or other fabric gloves. These add extra grip, but fit much more closely, allowing for the finer work such as hand weeding, using more refined snippers, etc. Thorns tend to poke through them, not being as sturdy as the aforementioned variety, but they are optimal for your more delicate tasks.

Footwear is extremely important. Sandals, lightweight sneakers, flip flops and the like do not have a place in the garden, save for when you are plucking some greens and tomatoes for a salad, or savoring a strawberry or two, warm from the sun and sweet, off the vine. Sturdy shoes will protect your feet, especially when tromping through masses of cleared branches, or vigourously pushing a shovel through turf and into compacted soil. Protect your feet, as gardening is usually not a job done from the comfort of an armchair.

Sunscreen is important, not only in wearing it, but in choosing a sweat-proof variety. One that is also not sticky will add to your comfort, as you will not be coated with the little particles of everything from dirt to weed seeds and more. Also keep a "sweat rag" on hand, in case the sweat-proof portion of your chosen brand was more hype than truth. Should it get in your eyes, it will sting, and you'll want to have a clean cloth to wipe your eyes.

On to the "real" tools of the work at hand....

While home centers are packed with tools, and many different versions of each, there are a scant few that are truly essential to a beginning gardener. A good shovel, hand cultivator, trowel, and hoe would be the the first purchases best suited to a beginner, with perhaps a garden rake as an added bonus.

As a beginner, choose either the standard pointed (or round or "digging") shovel or the flat shovel (or spade or "grading" shovel). They are usually available in both the shorter "D" handled variety, or in a long straight handle. Taller gardeners often find the long-handled to be the most comfortable, but many gardeners get quite accustomed to the extra grip of the D-handle. 

Do not pay extra for cushion grips (after all, you'll be wearing your gloves), or fancy colors, but do ensure the handle is well made of a strong wood, and the blade of the shovel is well attached to the handle. While many prefer the spade, with it's near flat shape, and flat edge, those attributes only seem necessary for the finest of edging and grading. Pointed shovels seem to provide extra digging power, and will get through most substances (the earth, compost, mulch, etc.) with comparatively less effort.

Hand cultivators are essential for gettting into small spaces, and very efficient for tearing out grass without losing as much soil as digging out the turf. There are various configurations of the tines, however the best arrangement seems to be with the center tine of the three inset toward the handle. Pressed into the tough weed clump, then the handle rotated around the tines, the twisting motion rips even the toughest weeds from their spot, much more successfully that those with tines all in an even row.

Gardening trowels are indispensible for planting, and digging out the occasional deep rooted weed. If you have a choice of sizes, opt for the smallest one that looks as if it belongs in the hands of an adult, not a child. You can always dig more away, but if the trowel doesn't fit between plantings, it is useless.

Garden Hoes make weeding an easier task, while aerating the soil, an essential part of the health of your garden. A common garden hoe will do the trick, but the stirrup hoe, so named because the working part resembles a stirrup on a saddle, makes quick work of the weeds, cutting them off below the soil's surface, not just uprooting them. While aesthetics might dictate that you clean away the weeds that have been shorn from their roots, it is not necessary. Although the roots may send up new shoots, you will eventually starve them to death by removing their tops on a regular basis.

A garden rake is a nice luxury to add to your tool collection. It will allow you to smooth new beds with precision, effectively rake away dead matter, and pull back the mulch in Spring with ease. However, being much wider than a hoe, it will see the inside of your shed for most of the growing season, and those same tasks can be accomplished with your other tools, albeit a bit more clumsily.

Now that you've accumulated your tools, it's time to start thinking about what you'll be using them to create...


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## laughaha

Old stock tanks that leak make GREAT planters for heat lovers. Use a pickaxe to put a few holes in it a couple inches from the ground. I have a giant one with peppers in it- bottom foot of it is sod (from plowing out a new garden), 2 inch layer of rabbit poo, next 6 inches is hay, followed by a few more inches of rabbit poo, followed by a small amount of topsoil mix that the peppers are planted in with more hay on top as a mulch. Once everything is well watered- it maintains moisture well and the peppers LOVE the extra heat. Easy on backs too. 

Pumpkins are great food for people and animals (rabbits/chickens/geese), pumpkin seeds are natural wormers and they are EXTREMELY easy to grow. Dig a bucket sized hole, fill with compost, plant seeds/starts, and mulch well with grass/hay/straw. Water well and that's pretty much it. Just make sure you don't plant it where it can't sprawl ALOT.

Many plants can be grown in shady areas- lettuce, spinach, kale, broccoli, cabbage, brussell sprouts, greens, beets.


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## laughaha

My gardening bible is an oldie but a greatie- How to grow vegetables and fruits by the organic method by J.I. Rodale

Whether you garden organically or not, this book is EXTREMELY informative and you can get used copies on Amazon for less than $5. This book covers EVERYTHING including extremely detailed info on all veggies and plants- even those not commonly grown in gardens. It even covers canning, dehydrating, preserving meats, root cellars, and lots more. I have lots of (more recent) gardening books, but this one covers almost everything that all my other books (combined) covers.


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## Cascade Failure

Two words come to mind, compost and experience.

Compost - you need to feed your food. Doesn't need to be fancy. I use the "pile all year and come spring mow into tiny pieces to spread everywhere" method. I don't pay much attention to ratios, moisture, or turning.

Experience - get some. To do so you have to start somewhere. Green thumbs are people who started somewhere but didn't let failures stop them. I have a personal policy of trying something new each year.


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## fffarmergirl

In addition to everything everybody else said, I suggest doing everything in your power to prevent yourself from having to weed too much. When you're not weeding every spare moment, you have more time to plant, harvest, preserve, and forage. If you don't have a lot of weeds your garden will do better.

I was about ready to give up gardening because the weeding was just so overwhelming. We have quack grass - which can not be tilled or it reproduces like mad. So - no rototilling for us. I gave myself tennis elbow hacking away on my hands and knees, trying to get rid of it all.

This year we layed down anything we could find and covered every inch of the garden that we could possibly cover with straw, cardboard, black plastic, rolled roofing, anything we could get our hands on for cheap or free. We're leaving it down and planting through it. Next year or the year after, maybe all that quack grass will have died and we won't have to do this anymore. For now, though, it's saving us a ton of work. Mulch or cover every inch of soil that doesn't have something planted in it and you will save time, get a bigger harvest, and enjoy gardening more.

If you're thinking of enlarging your garden next year, cover the new area now and it will be ready to plant in the spring without any tilling or weeding.

We fertilize with rabbit droppings. We don't have enough to cover the entire garden but we have more than enough to throw a heaping helping into each hole we dig. The worms go crazy over it and you should see what it does for the tomatoes! 

We also use the ashes and charcoal from our wood stove in the garden. It really helps to loosen up the soil.


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## manygoatsnmore

My biggest piece of advice is to START! If all you have is a 5 gallon bucket of dirt, plant a tomato in it, or a couple potato pieces. Pick something you like to eat, something that costs you $$ in the grocery store, and that will grow in your area (do some research, see what others are growing, etc, for this). 

It is better to plant a single tomato than to curse your lack of gardening experience.


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## wagvan

What advice do you have for growing seedlings from seed? this is where I always fail. I do okay if I buy plants from the garden center, but I just can't seem to get viable seedlings on my own.


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## manygoatsnmore

wagvan, I do great starting seedlings, but sometimes have trouble getting my transplants to grow (mainly because I WILL insist on trying to put them out too early in the spring and because I have goats  ). 

First of all, get some 4' shoplights and some lengths of lightweight chain (sturdy enough to hold the shoplights, though. Some folks use full spectrum bulbs, but I just use the cheap lights and they work fine.

Then gather some sort of materials to make shelves and holders for the lights. You can find a million different designs online. You want to be able to adjust the shoplights so they can be right over your seed flats, and then be raised as the plants grow. You want to keep the lights just a few inches above the seedlings. I started many of my seeds on a baker's rack this year, but at about 6 weeks, needed to move the seedlings to another shelf where I could raise the lights higher than the baker's rack permitted.

I like to start seeds in clamshell deli containers, putting moist potting soil in the lower half, and after seeding and misting the container, closing up the top to make a mini-greenhouse. Put the containers where it is nice and warm, like the top of the refrigerator or near the wood stove, and watch them carefully. As soon as they start to sprout, put them under the lights, and as soon as they are well-sprouted, open the tops and water them frequently with a mister. 

Some folks use chamomile tea to mist or water the starts - it is supposed to prevent damping off, a fungal disease that makes starts die suddenly. I haven't, but would if I was having any problems.

With plants like tomatoes, I transplant them into individual pots very early, just as they are getting their first true leaves (not the ones that they sprout with, but the next set). I set them down so the leaves are barely above the level of the soil, so they can start growing more roots along the little stems that are now underground. After they have grown on well, I'll often pot them up once more, into deep drink cups, again, burying as much stem as I can. Then I let them grow in the drink cups until it is time to transplant into the garden.

For plants like cabbage and its relatives, I nearly always have long, wobbly stems at first, no matter how careful I am. I've decided that that's just the way they grow for me. I leave them in the starter flats until they have a chance to grow those spindly stems into nice sturdy plants, and they do. Then I transplant to the garden.

There is also a way of starting seeds outside over the winter, called winter sowing (natch). Check out www.wintersown.org for more info.

To start carrots in the garden, I use strips of lath over the seeds at first, to keep those tiny seeds moist until they sprout, which takes a while. Check them often and take the covers off as soon as they sprout.


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## ne prairiemama

Thanks for all the great advice. This is great reading!


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## HTWannabee

All great advice so far! Ditto beans, they always come through for us. For books, we like Four Season Harvest by Elliot Coleman. One thing we are trying is to do is grow as many perennials as we can. Asparagus, rhubard, dandilions (yup) and overwintering things like lettuce and leeks that will resume growth as soon as it warms a bit in early spring. Learn to love cold frames and they don't have to be fancy. We are using old sky lights!


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## manygoatsnmore

Storm damage! If you live where there is violent weather, and these days that seems to be just about anywhere, you run the risk of storms. Recently, there have been a lot of posts about blown down corn, snapped off tomatoes, etc. If it happens to you, don't lose heart. 

Straighten up the corn stalks as best you can, and give the ground on the side opposite the direction of the blowdown a good stomp. This will help stabilize the corn roots - corn is shallow rooted. More often than not, the corn will survive. If practical, you can be pro-active and run a line down each side of the corn row, giving enough support to prevent blowdown in the first place. It may be impractical in a large planting, but in small plots in the home garden, it should help.

For tomatoes, if you don't already have them covered with a hoophouse, hopefully preventing the damage, take the snapped off plants and place them in water - they will root and can be replanted. If the snapped section is high enough, the remaining plant will put out fresh leaves and continue growing. The main problem there is that you could end up with plants much delayed in fruiting and ripening that fruit. Going back the the hoophouse idea, it is possible to extend the season long enough to ripen those late fruits.

Nearly the end of summer and your green tomatoes aren't turning? Stop watering them. This will trick the plants into thinking a drought is on and they'd better hurry and make seed. As that is a tomato plant's soul purpose in life, they will ripen their fruit (and their seeds), giving you ripe tomatoes. If you need to prevent rain from watering the tomatoes for you, or want to make sure later rain doesn't burst the fruit, make sure you rig a plastic cover over them, such as the hoophouse I keep harping on about, lol.

eta: Almost forgot another tip. When your peas stop bearing in the heat, instead of pulling the plants, try cutting them down to about 4" or so high. I did this one year after noticing that the plants I was pulling seemed to have new growth coming from low on the plant. I got a second, fall growth and crop off the old plants! I've done it several times since. The crop isn't as heavy, but it is free food without planting more seed.


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## belladulcinea

Our first home was small 720 sq. ft. but our yard was fairly large but weirdly fenced. I composted and raised rabbits, we had a great garden but used the intensive manner of growing but there were just some things that didn't grow well like potatoes.

One day I came across a huge chest of drawers at the curb and asked it I could have it, the neighbor said sure so I got it home and took the drawers out and sawed out 2 of the four cross pieces, then drilled some holes in the back. Then I found a board, took it to dad's and he sawed it for me to fit in the middle. I filled it up with dirt, compost and potatoes. It was truly one of the best crops I've ever had! 

Then I took the drawers and used those for annual herbs. Took off the pulls and set bricks under them so they were level. Drilled some holes added in the dirt and had some different looking herb gardens. I was able to use these things for several years until we got our garden patch in really good shape. 

My point I guess, is there are all kinds of ways to garden! Don't give up! Plant what you eat and eat what you plant. Kinda like prepping!


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## lonelyfarmgirl

I am going to talk about gardening in the north. I am from southern Indiana where it is hot and humid. There, you can plant corn by the 15th of April, and set tomatoes out by the first of May. Peas don't grow because it gets too hot, too fast. You can plant sweet potatoes anywhere in the yard and they get huge. A little late? No biggy, first frost isn't until at least Halloween.

THEN, I moved to east central Wisconsin. BIG BIG garden slap in the face. Here, it's dry and cold. If we are REALLY lucky, we might have 90 days of hot weather. Not this year!

Sweet potatoes must be planted through clear plastic. Tomatoes and peppers can't be planted out until the first of June, then you better be ready to protect them, and unless the timing is superb, your beans will rot instead of sprout. Forget any 120 day squash.

The zoning maps say zone 5, but zone 5 things die here, I call zone 4. Cold weather things grow great here.
Beets, spinach, peas, carrots, potatoes, lettuce, kale, broccoli, etc...

Some other random advice:
When following directions on a seed packet, always plant the seeds twice as close as the packet suggests.

Directions for planting carrots:
Pick all the weeds out of your dirt, and rake smooth.
Sprinkle carrot seeds about on the dirt. Using your flat hand and finger tips, swirl the surface of the dirt about and smooth it out, then pat it down to cover the seeds. That is all they need. Next thoroughly water the soil, and cover with cardboard. Leave covered for 2 weeks then check for sprouts. Uncover to water if need be. Uncover when you see sprouts. If the sprouts get crowded, snip some out with scissors and eat the tops. Don't pull out the extras, you will hurt the others roots.

Don't be afraid to plant a seed too early. You can always plant again if it doesn't sprout or frost kills it. If you plant too late, you might not get a crop at all. I planted my onion sets, beets, and potatoes out 3 weeks early than I was 'supposed' to. They sprouted when they were ready and they are fine.
I planted my beans too early and they rotted. Had to do over. It's been a very cool, wet summer. Bummer.


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## bourbonred

Lessons learned so far from my first year of "real" gardening:
-buy more seeds than you think you're gonna need, you can always store them.
-persistence does pay off, if it doesn't come up keep planting until it does. 
-weeds are easier to deal with when they're small and few in number.
-study up on each plant and keep a journal of what worked and what didn't.
-fertilizer is your friend
-and finally, gardening is harder than it looks, but I can do it.


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## cmcon=7

http://bluebarrelgarden.weebly.com/
this is my second year with this method, I dumped out all of the barrels and refilled them after mixing in some fresh alfalfa and the plants are doing great.


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## Henry

We live in northern BC at elevation and so have what some would call a difficult growing season. Our first season saw the longest frost free time as 7 DAYS. Yes 7 days. Its obvious that I am going to talk about growing in very cold areas.
For potatoes we built a solid fence around 3 sides of the raised bed of the potato patch. Leave the southern exposure open of course. This stopped all the light frost as the frost moves low from the north across the land heading for low spots. For heavy frost we use to cover the potatoes and then uncover them. We have since found out about "frost cloth". This is a great product that allows enough sun and rain through but stops the frost. We tend to leave it on for a week at a time. Saves us from putting it on and off every day. Sept 1 the frost cloth will stay on until we want the tops to die. Then we remove them and the next day the tops are dead. The potatoes still continue to grow and we harvest them about 2 weeks after the tops are dead. We expect over 700 lbs of potatoes from 6 varieties each year enough to last the 2 of us and have all the seed potato's we need. 
If you have heavy soil that seems to tough to work try to get some clean sand and mix it in. It really helps to loosen up that soil. We have always had chickens and thats our main fertilizer source.
Much of our food is grown in greenhouses. We have 3 large 20' by 40' greenhouses that stay hot as we want without axillary heat. Peppers like 90f. Its all about heat sinks and quality panels that really let the light in.
Well thats all for now. I just wanted to say that answers can be found for most growing problems but sometimes you have to concentrate on those crops that are known to do well in your area.


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## SCRancher

bourbonred said:


> -fertilizer is your friend


I think manure is your friend - manure is a fertilizer but I'm not a fan of manufactured fertilizer.

If you manure well and have/create a deep layer of organic material your garden will do well w/o the manufactured fertilizer.


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## LadyJane

I always plant quite a bit of swiss chard. It does not bolt, has a mild taste and is so easy to grow. I use smaller leaves in salad - larger leaves I cook as greens. All the extra that grows can be frozen and cooked as greens. Grows and keeps in the garden well into the Fall if mulched with leaves or straw. 

When we lived in Maryland I would put straw bales around it with glass windows over the bales and we picked swiss chard through December - haven't tried that here in Ohio though.


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## ccfromnc

Since the topic is shtf gardening, my advice is to start amending your soil now. Even if you don't get much of a yield at first, don't get discouraged... over a year or two adding compost, manure, topsoil, used straw, etc you will be amazed at how every year the amount you harvest will increase. We started our garden in the hardest clay you've ever seen, had a very poor crop to show for all our hard work, and were very discouraged. But after two years of amending, this year we have soil that can be turned with a garden fork, have had fresh vegetables from early spring onward and are now picking our fall crops, and have canned hundreds of jars for winter.

And don't forget to put in fruit trees and bushes, they take a few years to produce but will be invaluable in a shtf situation.


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## Grandmotherbear

My advice is to follow lonelyfarmgirl and know your micro-climate. For instance, low ground is where cold settles. Being on a hill keeps air moving downhill when it chilling. She is a zone 4 in a supposed zone 5. I'm a zone 10/11 in a supposed zone 9b. This means that during the summer I can't raise regular beans, potatoes (stop forming tubers at 85F) or even eggplant (stops flowering and fruiting at 95F). What I CAN raise are tropicals- crowder peas, yardlong beans (cousins to blackeye peas) malabar spinach and luffa squash. Also sweet potatoes- both roots and leaves. We also have katuck (sauropus) for high protein, high calcium salad and cooking greens. Summer is stirfries. Fall, winter and spring is traditional vegetables. Lima vines s are planted in the spring, harvesting is summer to Christmas. In my area I have ddiscovered that replanting sweet potato vines after digging the tubers makes them perennials. Cutting the kohlrabi bulb high enough to leave a couple leaves behind means a second bulb and the leaves make great cooked greens thrown in w/traditional southern greens. Lima vines can last for years-until the fungus the local ants carry in their jaws gets em.
The sun destroys most amendments within a few months in south florida so I garden in containers. You do have to water more frequently. I have water retention crystals but am loath to use them till I am really sure we are in the dry season- the first time I used them, years ago, we had a wet autumn and everything planted with water retention crystals rotted.
And remember- keep trying! A gardener is going to have lots of mistakes along the way- it's how we learn! Just keep on goin!Someday everything comes togather and you suddenly feel the pride of success!


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## secretcreek

Goat berry manure won't 'burn" up plants...it's ready to use right out of the goat. With four 'stomachs, goats digest their food so well, the manure isn't as "hot" and doesn't need to "mellow" like horse or cow.

-scrt crk


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## BillHoo

I was just reading about how criminals are growing marijuana secretly in our national parks and harvesting it in the middle of the night. that's illegal.

But for those who have no land, why not grow... tomatoes, or potatoes, or okra?

I think it would be a hoot if the federallies were to jump on you out in the park woods and pronounce "you are under arrest for cultivating......er corn?"

Might just get a slap on the wrist.

Just a quirky thought in passing.


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## Ohio Rusty

You don't need much area to grow vegetables. You can grow vegetables right in a bag of topsoil, no need to till any ground. A bag of topsoil can be laid flat on the ground, tear a hole in the bag, put your plant start in the hole and you are done. You can drive a stake thru the bag into the ground below for tomato's or you can use a tomato cage or two. You can easily get two tomato plants or two pepper plants or a mess of bean plants growing from one topsoil dirt bag. It's recommended to make a few holes in the bottom of the bag for drainage so the plants roots don't get too wet and rot. Using soil bags, there are no weeds, no tilling, and you can mulch over them to hide them if need be. At the end of the season, spread the dirt around in a flower or mulch bed and discard the plastic dirt bag. No mess ..... no muss .... nio fuss.
Ohio Rusty ><>

No trees were killed in the sending of this message. However, a great number of electrons were inconvenienced.


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## JohnP

laughaha said:


> My gardening bible is an oldie but a greatie- How to grow vegetables and fruits by the organic method by J.I. Rodale
> 
> Whether you garden organically or not, this book is EXTREMELY informative and you can get used copies on Amazon for less than $5. This book covers EVERYTHING including extremely detailed info on all veggies and plants- even those not commonly grown in gardens. It even covers canning, dehydrating, preserving meats, root cellars, and lots more. I have lots of (more recent) gardening books, but this one covers almost everything that all my other books (combined) covers.


Careful, this book just went through the roof on amazon. starting at $66 for used. I got one on ebay for $8. Definitely a good book. I have a copy checked out from the library right now, still waiting for the one I bought to show up. I've checked this book out from the library several times and extended it every time.I also just bought "rodale's encyclopedia of organic gardening and already have "The complete book of composting" (as per forerunner's recommendation), also by rodale. Anything from rodale press is good stuff for folks like us.

Organic is the way to go imho. For those of us who are preppers it just makes sense as some day the chemicals won't be available or will be cost prohibitive. Or someday you may be dirt poor like I am at the moment and will have to make do with what's on hand. Plus it's just better for you and sustainable. 
We're first time gardening on this property which is Ozark rocky clay. The digging does get easier after a while. Between this, firewood and everything that goes along with living off grid with no money, I'm in better shape than I've been in for over ten years. 
We're doing semi raised beds. Not as much soil to get/make, not as much side walls to get/make and we're improving the soil where are beds are. Our additional soil for the beds is coming from some pushed up piles made when this property was logged 15 years ago. Nice dark brown fluffy stuff where top soil, chunks of logs, leaves etc have been biodegrading. Our bed sides are some logs from those same piles. The more rotten logs crumble in the hand and are as light as balsa wood so I'm crumbling them into mulch. Red oak, almost looks like the red store bough mulch. The high and dry red oak kept us warm this winter. Our only easy source of water is rainwater collected so mulch is a must.
In the above book(s) you'll learn a lot of cheap/free ways to do things including adjusting PH, cracking hardpans, making fertilizer etc. Basically being sustainable. My best tool for establishing a new garden has been my $4 thrift store pick axe. Old tools are way better than anything you can buy new these days. Pitch fork with about 5 tongs/tines is a must for composting. 
If you have heavy soil (clay) like us then be prepared for a lot of work with not much initial results and you'll have to attack the heavy soil condition from every which way possible. Aside from the beds we also dug a section of rows 15'x40'. 
For the beds I shoveled off the 3-6"s of top soil, pick axed through the hard pan and tossed it aside, loosened up the sub soil and mixed some of the top soil with it, put the rest of the top soil mixed with the additional fluffy stuff and some compost back in and this ended up 4-5"s higher than ground level. Takes all day to do one 3'x7'ish and with only slightly improved soil, but greatly improved drainage. Lot of work to see 8 baby mater plants in there but they do look pretty with that red mulch and the little bit of gardening we did without all that work last fall had poor result.
For the rows, in one half we're doing greens like mustard and collards which do ok in clayey soils. The other half is cow peas and more cow peas will follow the greens. We're not big on cow peas (black eyed peas). In fact I'm the only one that might eat them but these are not for eating they're for adding nitrogen to the soil and cracking the hard pan. As much as I dig getting in shape, there was no way I was going to pick axe through 600 sq ft. especially knowing that this area has been driven on. I did loosen up to 8" or so with a forked spade (another must have tool) but cheated and only did it where the rows are, not the aisles. I'm going to do the aisles when it's about time to start thinning so that if I accidentally take out a few plants, I'll just consider them thinnings. The other thing I'm doing is gypsum and in my case, in the form of drywall. I've got a house to salvage and will take the old drywall, minus painted paper from front side, and spread it where the cow peas are growing. Supposed to help break up clay. Can't do this with really old drywall as they used to put arsenic in it. Can't do it with the new poison drywall from china either. Lot of work for not much food on this 600 sq ft but hopefully next year will be an actual crop of food and with much less work. Those cow peas plus a heavy addition of compost, manure, leaves or some combination thereof will be dug in this fall. 

The point I'm trying to make in all my wordiness is, read, read read and learn all you can and in doing that you'll find that it's very cheap to garden. Don't expect awesome results right away and plan on always doing things for the long run. The rewards will come and will be lasting. Grab anything you can get your hands on for cheap or free that might be useful. Fence of any type. Not just for fence but for climbing plants. Any kind of posts, lots of different sized containers, carts/wheelbarrows, short stool to sit on, big yard/market umbrella for portable shade for you, any kind of screening for shading plants. Don't worry too much about how good a trellis or raised bed sides look like. They'll look great when the plants grow in or on them. Anything with a vine will climb. Melons, cucumbers etc
Or you could just throw a bunch of money at it and have good results quick and say, "look what I did". But you'll have to do that every year and will probably in the end pay as much for produce as buying it from the store or farmer's market. I don't even own the property we live on but we'll be here a few years and I don't want to wait any longer to learn this stuff. Thing's will be all that much easier when we do get our own place. Food has doubled in price in the last 10-15 years but wages for most haven't. We're even doing berry plants here but I know I will be able to take some cuttings with us and I plan to propagate every season to increase the quantity and to learn and get good at it.
Plant and only count on good results from what will do best in your climate and soil. We have low PH (fairly acid soil) and know that lettuce, taters, onions, berries will do good so we plant a lot of those without having to do too much amending of the soil. Tomatoes can stand some acidity so we just have to feed them and cabbage, broccoli, cauliflower etc don't do well with low PH and are heavy feeders so we have to amend a lot which is where raised beds come in handy. You can create whatever type of soil you want in that little area. Great for root crops too where you want rock free soil. Just grow the short carrots. Some type of corn is grown in every state so you can find one that will grow where you are. University AG extensions all have websites which will help in choosing varieties that will do good for you and all kinds of other info.


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## ChristieAcres

There is quite a bit of info on my gardening thread, primarily about raised bed gardening, now in its 2nd year:

http://www.homesteadingtoday.com/country-living-forums/gardening-plant-propagation/351013-christie-acres-organic-raised-bed-garden-2010-pics.html

What we have also done is to grow perennial edibles and most don't even know they are looking at food... You can plant all kinds of edibles in flower beds, not easily ID'd by folks who don't garden, too. Not to mention, making sure you have as many wild edibles on your property as possible!


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## rickfrosty

AngieM2 said:


> Hi all - due to
> Can I make a suggestion? - Homesteading Today
> 
> We are going to give this a try.
> 
> On this thread I hope all the gardeners that are currently growing food can give the help and ideas to get people started on providing for themselves.
> Maybe list some of the first basic plants and how to grow them - especially from different parts of the country or world, so we may figure how some items grow in our areas.
> 
> Also, there's the aspect of someone having some acres, some having a backyard, and maybe some just having containers on a patio; or hiding them in the neighborhood - etc.
> 
> So, please - go for it, this is the 1st of the Monday threads.
> 
> Angie


I am still learning in this 5th summer of gardening, but will suggest a pretty usefull book - - "Gardening When It Counts", by a fellow named (?) Solomon.


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## justincase

I have been trying to grow a garden in my backyard for 3 years to no avail. I finally decided to do a raised bed. OH MY GOODNESS what a difference. I bought some plants from a local farmer (loccal things seemes smart to start out with to me instead of a cabbage that grows well in another state) and I threw in some seeds for good measure just to see what may happen. Could not lose anything as the big garden keeps dyin. Well to my shock everything is growing like mad. my cabbage, brussel sprout broccoli, all shot up in the past few days and I think every seed (lettace, peas,acorn ) all took. I will actually have to thin em out. I also used a plastic kids pool to plant onion in I have never planted them so we shall see.I never had any luck with growing I am in southeast N.C. and the soil here is awful. I made an 8x8 wood square and threw in topsoil and POOF I actually have things growing. I am soooo happy because nothing frew in my ground. I also put in drip hose to water with. I use 7 dust for the bugs ans knock on wood so far so good. The beans were seeds I planted a week and half ago and they are up already. I read a book called square foot gardening and it was a wealth of info. It really inspired me and taught me I could grow ALOT of food in a small space. DH will need to build me a trellis or 2 but I know he will be happy that something is growing. Good luck to all us newbie gardners...


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## Jeepgirl86

Congrats Justincase! Gardening is so much more fun when something actually lives and produces! lol I have been battling the red mud/clay we have here in VA, but in the last 4 years with major amending my soil is finally doing good. This year I had a bumper crop of tomatoes and my snaps have been going great. I've decided to try colder weather veggies this year, so far so good. Perserverence is the key! Good luck and happy gardening!


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## justincase

I had attempted to garden directly in the ground, for 3 years. My and my hubby bit off more than we could chew. Well we had nothing to chew because not one veg grew. after watching it be over taken by weeds, my hubby declared he would not do a garden EVER! I am a lil more stubborn than that sooo.... he was called to work out of town so he could not garden anymore. I was left in a pickle. I have to grow food. Please put the image of Scarlette in your mind when she said she would never be hungry again. That was me. I had a few battles to overcome. Bad soil. I mean CLAY SITCKY soil. A bad back. a very stubborn 3 year old and NOBODY to help me while hubby is gone. Still not giving up I begged my hubby to build me an 8x8 frame out of wood. I filled it with bags of topsoil and some sandy soil from our yard that we had just to stretch th topsoil. I place it where I could be neat the house and wher my little one plays outside. I see it everyday which helps me to see what is needed to be done. I pkanted some seed acorn squashm peas, lettace about 3 weeks ago. I put in plants about 2 inches bif at the same time from a local farmer. Would you believe (I sure can NOT) It is growing like crazy. I weeves in and out some drip hose also. I had some help with cloudy days with a light drizle which really helped em take off. Oh an I am soooo clueless about this that I planted brussel sprouts ( I LOVE them) and had to youtube how they grow and how to harvest. I am soooo happy that I am growing soemthing. I weed a lillte every couple days, a pluck and pull here and there. My lettace dod not take but I think the seeds may have been bad but everything else is doing great. If you are short on time with work or kids this is the way to go. I have more food in there in a small space than that huge weed pit mmm I mean garden. I never give up and will try whatever to get the job done. I got the idea from a book I read a long time agao called square foot gardening. I am glad this old brain recalled it because I sware by it now. I can keep upwith it. It does not kill me back and the Lillte one enjoys it very much. Can not wait for us to be able to pick stuffl Can not wait to see her pick cabbage and to see Broccoli grow. I will use some 10 10 10 in a few weeks after the seed plants are larger because I read that Brussel sprouts are heavy feeders. I also purchased organic seaweed exttract to mix in the watering can Will try that first instead of the 10 10 10 as it is more natural. Use 7 dust for the bugs and that seems to be working for me. And let me tell yo we have nore than bugs here they are creatures! Hope this info helps somebody. And I hope it keeps growing this well.


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## Halfway

I believe learning the basic gardening skills to include seed collection is a core prepper skill set and should be taught to as many as possible not only for SHTF, but for growing their own produce.

Raised beds, containers, and hydroponics all provide economical and highly efficient methods for growing even the smallest of crops.

Seed collection and storage are another issue, especially considering hybrid seeds and GMO's.

This has been an excellent thread!:dance:


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## barefootboy

If space is a question, a number of good veggies grow in buckets, or hanging as in tomatoes ( A store I was in today had the hanging tomato kits w/o plants or soil of $2.)
Also, you can use those plastic "milk" crates to make a compost bin. Mix earth and the scraps ( potato peelings, lettiuce leaves etc.) in each crate, stack 4 high, cover with a large trash bag with holes to let in rain water ( secure it with rope or bungeee cordes against the wind), water, stir the soil once a week, and rotate the crates top to bottom. Pick up some live worms at a bait shop, add them and mulched leaves. The soil you get is great, and you won't believe how it helps with your trash. ( You can use eggs shells, banana peels, celery and pepper parts.) 
If you have the space them it depends on your likes. This year I'll be putting in the tomatoes, cherry tomatoes, peppers, onions, lettiuce, cucumbers, zuccini, green beans , peas, and I'll be trying potatoes in a barrel. 
And always remember the old addage about seeds, you use 4 "One for the rook, on for the crow, one to rot and one to grow."
Hope you all have a fine harvest. As the song from the musical went, "When you work for Mother Nature, you get paid by Father Time"


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## ChristieAcres

Since I didn't see it mentioned, be sure and plant Comfrey Bocking14 in a place you want to grow it permanently and grow as many plants as you have room for as it is such an incredibly versatile and useful Herb (medicinal uses covered on other threads)

For gardening, Comfrey can be used for Fertilizer, a Compost Igniter, made into a Tea to spray on vegetables, works well as Mulch, is a Bee Attractor, and you can feed it to all sorts of critters.


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## Guest

After years of digging, fighting, augmenting, supplementing, and all around FAILURE with the South Texas caliche (translate: packed gravelly drywall dust) dirt... I had DH build me a teensy raised bed out of an old pallet and bought "rose bed" dirt for $25/pickup load.

I stuffed horseradish (grocery store) and heirloom shallots (free) in there. We'll see if anything survives.

I've had a modicum of success with some patio peppers over the years, but nothing in the yard(s). Even a Century Plant (native weed) died in our yard!

I was growing a cabbage in a flower pot, but (no joke) someone stole it. :-/ no more things out front, right?

I have grandiose plans for several of these beds... Sunchokes, ground nuts, collards/kale, etc. if I can get some perennials to take, we will branch off into more annual veggies, maybe.

I found some walking onions near a river a while back, and put them in a bed out front. I'm afraid they'll want more water than we can legally/morally supply though.

So, my suggestion, after years of trying -- pick something edible, perennial, and considered an invasive weed! They're supposed to be good to "learn on." LOL! 
And if they survive, you've something edible.


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## Freeholder

We have major water issues here, far worse than anything faced by anyone east of the Mississippi -- no rain from mid-June to at least the end of September, and often well into October. Given that we are talking about 'TSHTF' gardening, I don't think we should be counting on having running water for drip irrigation or soaker hoses. If we couldn't get water out of our well (it's almost three hundred feet deep), we'd have to haul it from the river half a mile away. Coming back, we'd have a pretty decent hill to climb, too. I do have animals who could help with the hauling, but still, it would be difficult to water a large garden. So, I need to figure out how to garden with little to no water, in a climate with extremely dry summers. Possible solutions include: 

sunken beds rather than raised (I planted some fruit trees and lilac bushes this way last summer, our first summer in this house, and they did take less watering than I expected -- mainly because the pits they were planted in held the water near their roots, instead of letting it run away down the hillside). 

Growing cool-climate stuff that will finish cropping before it gets too dry and hot for them. (Peas, early onions and potatoes, greens, come to mind.) 

Using watering devices such as the porous clay pots used in some parts of Africa -- I think this would be a good idea, but am not sure where to find the pots in this country at a reasonable price. 

Mulching, and adding organic matter to the soil, are a given. 

I think making swales to direct more water into the ground, rather than letting it run off, would also be a good idea if I can physically manage to create them. 

Finally, I think there are some perennials that are fairly well adapted to our climate, such as gooseberries, currants, and some plums (these all grow wild here, but the wild ones aren't great -- so some plant breeding might be helpful).

Any other ideas? I'm open. (Our growing season is also very short, since we have cool to cold nights all summer and can have a killing frost in any month.)

Kathleen


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## susieneddy

I enjoy reading these old threads. 

I had heard about growing potatoes in boxes or plastic containers but have never done it. Think we will give it a try this yr


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## Westexas

Like Freeholder, we are very dry, and windy and hot as well. I have DH use the moldboard plow to make deep furrows and plant in the bottom of those, amending with potting soil and compost/mulch. Can flood the whole furrow less often. Tomatoes grow on mulch on the ground rather than up in the wind and heat, and I cover them with shadecloth during the hottest months and they are ready to go again in the fall. I REALLY appreciate the plants that make it here, and every year we learn more and are a little better at this. Start practicing now!


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## Junkman

Due to my heart surgery, my husband built me 8 raised beds. I can grow almost the same amount I grew in the big garden. I plant 2 tomato plants to a stake and they help shade each other. Deer population is a problem that was taken care of by winding video tape around the beds. So far it has kept the deer away. I plant green onions among the larger plants because they come out early. When I pull out the beets, I put in turnips. This year I am mulching the plants with grass clippings to keep down the weeding. We have been getting good yields. Have learned a lot from older folks. (if I can find someone older than me.  Actually have learned a lot from HT. Jklady


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## Spinner

I discovered a new way of gardening this year, in fact there are a lot of different ways to do it, but the common denominator is that they are all self watering. 

So far it's producing way more than my old traditional garden did. 

A picture is worth a thousand words so here it is. 



A grow bag with a watermelon plant in it. The vine can be trained to climb or left to wander on the ground.





A pop bottle garden for inside or out: These little gardens are great for growing salad greens, bell peppers, patio tomatoes, and a host of other things. 





Here is a corn field in a pool. In about a month it will be a sight to behold. 4 corn stalks in each bag, 2 ears to each stalk, if I counted correct it's 38 bags so here is 72 ears of corn in a little pool in the corner. 






A garden inside a hoop house: I have hoop house envy!  





A couple of plants in a pair of walmart bags, setting in plastic dish pans of water: 




A garden on a concrete slab: This is simply amazing that a fabulous garden can grow right on a concrete slab! 



A garden in a box: the box has a liner and the grow bags set in the water. You can add a float valve to make it self watering, or fill it by hand, your choice. 





A garden on a patio: the buckets have a hole in the bottom with a net cup that sets down into the water pipe. The plants wick up however much water they want. ZERO danger of over or under watering. 





To learn more details of how to build one of these systems search for Larry Hall rain gutter on youtube. Lots of options for growing a full garden or a few plants, whatever you want to do. 

These are pics of a lot of gardens, not mine. My camera is on the blink so I borrowed pics from friends so you can see what I mean. 

Oh, here's a great way to germinate seeds: 

,


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## Bret F

I definitely agree with "grow what you eat".

The next thing I recommend is grow things you can harvest continually. I love to pick fresh tomatoes, cukes, zukes, beans all summer.

Frosty: I think that is Steve Soloman. He has also written about gardening without irrigation. When he wrote it he lived just down the valley from Carol Deppe (also mentioned in the thread.) She has a book out (sorry I can't remember the name) about growing the important storage foods.


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## anahatalotus

Spinner-I love the grocery bag for a grow bag idea! I think I'm going to give it a shot and see what happens does it matter what material the grocerry bag is?


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## Ohio dreamer

anahatalotus said:


> Spinner-I love the grocery bag for a grow bag idea! I think I'm going to give it a shot and see what happens does it matter what material the grocerry bag is?


Sort of, needs to be the "fabric" like ones. If you have a Wal-Mart near, touch their blue bags....needs to be that kind of material (so water can soak into it and drip out). I think Wal-Mart bags are used because most people live near a WM and can identify the bags. I know our local grocery store sells bags of the same material....but not as cheap as WM does.


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## Spinner

anahatalotus said:


> Spinner-I love the grocery bag for a grow bag idea! I think I'm going to give it a shot and see what happens does it matter what material the grocerry bag is?


The blue bags at Walmart are the only ones that work good. The seams on them are heat sealed, other bags are sewn and the thread deteriorates. Several people have tested several bags and the blue WM bags are the only ones that have held up. You can buy garden root pouches online that are made to last a season or two. I plan to order some of them for next years garden.

Be sure to use a potting MIX, not potting soil. Soil does not work in the bags, it must be the potting mix or the plants will die.


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## Freeholder

What is in the potting mix that isn't in the potting soil? I'm thinking that if I can only find potting soil (I have some on hand, actually) maybe I can supplement it with what it needs.

I have a bunch of those 'fabric' bags that I got for ninety-nine cents (for the whole lot) at Goodwill. I think I'll try them -- if the thread in the seams rots after a season, it won't be a great loss.

Kathleen


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## gracie88

> When he wrote it he lived just down the valley from Carol Deppe (also mentioned in the thread.) She has a book out (sorry I can't remember the name) about growing the important storage foods.


The Resilient Gardener? That's a good one for actually feeding yourself from your garden.

Here's another bit I've learned in the past couple years - pay a little extra for good seed and get it from somewhere as closely adapted to your growing conditions as possible. We are lucky enough to have seed producers in the Willamette Valley and their seeds do consistently better in my garden than those from other places, especially the "heat lovers" because we don't usually do heat, even though we're technically zone 7/8.


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## JJ Grandits

Lots of good advice here.
Spent most of my life working in the nursery business. have a formal education in Horticulture and agriculture as does my wife. We ran our own business for 17 years landscaping, commericial flower growing and market gardening (vegetables and herbs). When our children were young and mom was a full time stay at home mother our garden supplied a major part of what we ate. Hundreds and hundreds of canned quarts. Done some lecturing to garden clubs, civic organizations and also taught adult education. The bottom line is that I know a little more than average. That being said, anyone else's advice is just as good as mine. Gardening is the absolute number one outdoor activity in this Country. It is the most awesome of endeavors. keep in mind that in the realm of gardening two opposing opinions can both be right.
Here is how I tell people to get started.
Find out what growing zone you live in.
Find out your growing days in your exact location. Talk to SEVERAL gardeners from the guy down the Street, a local farmer, and County agent
Test your soil. It is the backborn of a garden.
You MUST have water and sun. Lots of both.
When you have all this it will tell you what you can grow.

There are many, many books out there. I think most successful gardeners make their money from selling books instead of gardening. I own several book cases full of them.
My favorite that I always recommend is "Rodales Book Of Landscape And Gardening". It does contain material on Landscaping, but the area's dedicated to gardening are of extreme value with absolute no BS advice.

Be patient, experiment, have fun.


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## JohnP

kaitala said:


> As a beginning gardener, all the information available may seem overwhelming at first. From organics to chemicals, soil types, USDA zones, etc., the abundance of knowledge available is enough to confound even seasoned gardeners. Fortunately, not all of it must be absorbed at once. Take it slowly, and skim what you read at first. Soon, you'll discover your style (organic? embracing man-made fertilizers? Square foot? Rows? Region of the country? Type of soil?), most likely after just a few articles or books, and begin to research your style in depth.
> 
> If your only option is container gardening,that is quite a different animal than in earth gardening. While many of the same principles apply, this is written to embrace in earth gardening.
> 
> Before you even break ground, you'll need some knowledge about your own property. Start by consulting the USDA hardiness zone map. While there may be slight variations within zones, you'll be able to find your general growing conditions.
> 
> The type of soil on which you reside is as important as the zone in which you reside. While different plants may require different nutrient balances for optimal fruiting, a generally good and balanced soil, in both composition and nutrients, is your best starting point. Refinement for specific crops can come later.
> 
> Soil is composed of Sand, Clay, Silt and Loam. For more information on these, and how to test your soil, check out this link. Acid/Alkaline balance, or pH, is also important. One great resource for soil testing is your local agricultural extension office. You can bring in a soil sample for testing and they can give you a great analysis for just a few dollars.
> 
> The two things your garden will need in addition to good soil are sun, and water. Many crops will thrive in less than the 6-8 hours of sun that is often recommended. Scout a location for your garden that does get good sun, perhaps that comes into shade late in the afternoon in the hotter portions of the country, or sheltered on the north side with a good southern exposure farther north. The best choice is a sunny spot that is also near to your water supply, be it the hose, well, or rainbarrel. Minimize the work necessary to get water to your plants.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> More later, I have to tend my own garden for a while!


The usda soil survey site is a good reference too and let's not forget about asking people in your area. What already grows there can be an indication as well. We have wild blueberries here and they only grow in acid soil aka low pH.

The ag ext in MO charges the same as a lab so I'm just going to use Logan Labs.

I haven't done any serious gardening yet. Just tomatoes, potatoes and some greens and leaf lettuce. 

Another book recommendation; ok 2 books;

The complete book of composting
How to grow fruits and vegetables using the organic method

Both from Rodale

I'm not big on that 8 or more hours of full sun either. Maybe for peppers. It does depend on what time of year it is though and latitude. That sun isn't as intense in May as it is in July/Aug so 8 hours of May sun is totally different than 8 hours of July/Aug. My belief is you want as much low sun as you can get. April, May, Sept, Oct. Plenty of June sun won't hurt unless there's a June heat wave. July/Aug, you want afternoon shade and mulch. 

A lot of people won't water with the hose from a well or city water because that's putting cold water on your roots. The sudden change in soil temp from 75 degrees to 50 degrees can stress the plant. My buddy keeps cow mineral tubs in his garden so the sun can warm up the water. Unfortunately, he's also breeding mosquitoes in them. Some people won't use city water period because of chemicals, chlorine, fluoride etc.


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## JeepHammer

This is just from an old 'Farm Kid' that grew up with depression era grandparents, and what I've done in the past 20 years...

When you plant/grow, consider the food value, and how easy the produce is to preserve.

Potatoes can be gown in straw or cut weed piles, in buckets/barrels, and they store just as easily, a barrel stuck in the ground will preserve potatoes over the winter well into spring/early summer until the ground warms up too much.

While you can't survive entirely on potatoes, something just as easy to grow and preserve is carrots, and you can greatly extend your life with potatoes & carrots together.
In both cases, the carrot tops and the potato 'Eyes' will reproduce for another crop.

About all sub-surface produce is easy to store with just lowered temps and no light since that's in the plant's natural life cycle.
Turnups have fallen out of favor, but they fed northern Europe since like potatoes they will grow in colder climates and store very well.

Many beans dry really well and provide amino acids tubers don't provide.
These will also self reproduce from seed.

While lettuce is good, and easy to grow, it likes water and it doesn't preserve well, it's low in food value and you will have to let plants go to seed, and collet the seeds to reproduce.
Celery has NEGATIVE food value, it actually takes more calories to digest celery than it provides.

Soybeans & rice feed most of the rest of the world, soybeans replenish the soil.
When growing soybeans, or most beans, plant them close to corn, or switch the places you plant corn & beans.
In hand tended gardens you can alternate corn and non-climbing beans.
Machine tended gardens this presents problems with cultivation and even weed removal since the root balls are so different.

With produce the birds, bugs & varmints like as much as you do, sweet corn, strawberries, sweet tomatoes, etc.
I've gone to raised garden beds (like large flower beds) with tall posts in the corners.
This allows me to use nets over the beds. 
(I started with old military surplus parachutes which are dirt cheap)

The beds keep my carefully prepared garden soil (not 'Dirt') where it belongs, gravel or rubble in the bottom, with landscaping cloth over it keeps the soil where it belongs,
Using plywood or tin covers over winter keeps the fertilizers where I put them.

A raised bed keeps 90% of the ground crawlers out, it seriously reduces the amount of bugs.
With a net, the rain doesn't pound the soil down, and no one is walking in the bed, your cultivation is MUCH less.
Nets also keep bugs, birds, weed seeds, etc out.

It's like using a straw bed, or styrofoam in soil to keep it loose so potatoes aren't back breaking to get out of the ground, raised beds make sense and can be done in any yard size land plot, or even on roof tops if necessary.

Common sense, you can't grow bananas in Chicago because of the cold, you can't grow rice in the desert because of water shortage...
You can't survive on rabbits exclusively, but rabbits will eat about anything that grows, and they provide meat, rabbit 'poop' is GREAT fertilizer.


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## [email protected]

one year I grew three patches of carrots. 2 feet x 4 feet.
per Mother Earth, I planted them thick, more broadcasted the seeds than putting them in rows. 
At first it took a lot of weeding, but once the tops got larger, it was like just one big carrot top.
In the fall, as frost started to settle in, I covered each bed with straw bales.. during the winter all I had to do was pull the straw bale aside and pull out whatever carrots we needed.
In theory that was the plan.. Mother Earth didn't tell me about the two feet of snow on top of the bales that had to be removed before trying to roll a bale frozen to the ground. it was an interesting experiment. did it only once..


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## JeepHammer

[email protected] said:


> one year I grew three patches of carrots. 2 feet x 4 feet.
> per Mother Earth, I planted them thick, more broadcasted the seeds than putting them in rows.
> At first it took a lot of weeding, but once the tops got larger, it was like just one big carrot top.
> In the fall, as frost started to settle in, I covered each bed with straw bales.. during the winter all I had to do was pull the straw bale aside and pull out whatever carrots we needed.
> In theory that was the plan.. Mother Earth didn't tell me about the two feet of snow on top of the bales that had to be removed before trying to roll a bale frozen to the ground. it was an interesting experiment. did it only once..


Potatoes can be done the same way, but I usually do the dig, dry a little, and put in the root cellar.
In a SHTF situation, potatoes, carrots, turnups, etc can be grown in old truck tires with prepared soil inside (tires to keep your prepared soil/compost together).
Bury some tires in a round hole and cover and you have a 'Root Cellar' for storage.
It's also doesn't wave a flag you have food surpluses...

Why I use compost, anything from tree leaves to pulled/cut weeds is NO COST and you can compost anywhere, no need to buy anything, and you can do it no matter where you are.
When compost is done correctly, weed seeds don't survive, so reduction in weeding,
And like adding styrofoam to soil, it's free and it's effective for moisture control, keeping soil from compacting so roots can spread properly, tubers form properly, and it's easier to harvest.

Seeds in 'Dirt' will usually grow plants. The plant might, or might not grow food for you.
Seeds in 'Soil' will grow plants that produce food.
Keep in mind that 'Dirt' in a LOT of places is contaminated and you can't grow much of any producing crops, while compost grows crops really well 100% of the time (when combined with sun & water).

As to two feet of snow and frozen hay bales...
A barrel, garbage can, etc anywhere under a roof (or evergreen tree) would have stopped the snow, a roof would have stopped the waterlogged frozen bails.
Just because farmers had 'Dirt Floors' in 'Lean-To' or sheds didn't mean they were stupid!


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## cowboy joe

south facing front porch converted to makeshift greenhouse...greens started. Still frost in NE so prepping raised beds w/seedlings started indoors...

Talking w/neighbors about community garden. Looking to convert well fertilized, unused pasture into garden space...combo energized, high tensile fence should keep out deer. Adding dug in poultry fence for the smaller critters...

prayers up for all...


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## Pobept75

Ernie said:


> Having trouble deciding what to grow?
> 
> Take a look at your grocery receipts. What are the most common vegetables on it? Cabbages? Carrots? Potatos? Tomatos? Pick 3-4 and grow just THOSE as a start. If those vegetables are 80% of your produce bill at the grocery store, by providing those alone you'd be reducing your bill by that much.


That's a bit misleading, new growers must factor in setup cost. Seeds, tools - shovels, rakes, hoes, rototiller(if used). Water cost city or well pumping cost, water hoses, sprinklers, fertilizers, herbicides and pesticides(if used). Freezing or canning or drying surplus vegetables/fruits cost.

With that said, I strongly a recommend a home garden be it small or large.

You may find a bit of useful information @ Town & Country Gardening


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## bman

Keep in mind that in a true SHTF scenario, people will see your garden, take what they want, and then come into your home looking for canned goods. Think about how to garden in a way that is hidden. The native American Indians were experts at cultivating plants over large areas, using plants that were native. The more you know about foraging and how to live off your local native plants, and how to leverage them for medicine, the more independent you will be.


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## lmrose

This is a great thread with a wealth of good information. I just finished reading it all and all is great advice. The last post by bman is particularly important in a SHTF situation. Whatever area you live in learn what plants grow there naturally that can be used for food and medicine. I have learned lately that most people do not recognize a beneficial plant from a poisonous one. Also many people do not know a turnip from a mangle! Once we had mangles stolen from our garden when they were turnip size. We grew them for cattle and goat feed. Later someone told us they saw one being cut up at a friend's house and the person said it was the worse turnip they had ever eaten! None were ever taken again. More than stealing garden food; is the mess they leave behind! Thieves are in a hurry and will pull up potato plants before they are ready to harvest and throw them on the ground when they see the potatoes are little yet. They yank out carrots in bunches instead of thinning them out and letting little ones grow. They take squash before it is ripe and haul down bean vines. It has been our experience once a thief raids a garden and doesn't gain much they are unlikely to return. It is better not to plant all of one kind of vegetable in one place. We have squash in with the beans in one garden and more squash planted among the corn. All the herbs and things like parsnips and Jerusalem Artichokes are fairly safe and pass for weeds as do the many herbs we grow. Most people only recognize a few garden vegetables. 

As for canned goods made at home just leave a few jars around in sight so if anyone takes them, it is no big loss. have the rest stowed away out of sight. More than likely thieves will look for store bought goods in commercial cans. So leave a few in sight that you won't miss if they get taken. Hide the rest. It is a pity it is necessary to even have to start thinking about such things but that is the world we live in now. With food prices accelerating it will continue to get worse.


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## TxGypsy

bman said:


> Keep in mind that in a true SHTF scenario, people will see your garden, take what they want, and then come into your home looking for canned goods. Think about how to garden in a way that is hidden. The native American Indians were experts at cultivating plants over large areas, using plants that were native. The more you know about foraging and how to live off your local native plants, and how to leverage them for medicine, the more independent you will be.


Good thought but impractical. Everything I grow has to have good strong electric fence around it. Melons of any kind have to be put in cages when they are mostly grown but nowhere near ripe.
The 4 legged garden raiders are interested in my garden 24/7.


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## oregon woodsmok

If you own your own land, one of the first things to do is to get some fruit trees into the ground. Fresh fruit is a treat, and fruit can be stored, and fresh fruit is an excellent bartering item, but fruit will take a couple of years before it starts to produce, so get started on it.

Do a little bit of research to find out what fruit grows under your conditions, and maybe find a suitable grape while you are at it.

If you have a lot of land, find out what nuts grow in your area and plant one of those, too Nut trees take a lot of time before they produce, but nuts are full of nutrition, they store well, and they are excellent to barter.

Other than that, grow what your family likes to eat, and don't go overboard. Two zucchini plants will feed a family of four humans plus enough for your 3 laying hens. You don't need 20 zucchini plants. Don't bother to plant things your family prefers to not see on the dinner table. Don't put up 40 quarts of zucchini pickles if your family's doesn't like zucchini pickles 

I like to grow a few of the items that are expensive to buy. I grow asparagus and edible pod peas. I grow patty pan squash because I like it and it isn't available in the store. Raspberries are easy to grow and costly to buy.


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