# Defense against coyotes?



## Jackie (Jun 20, 2008)

So as some of you know we recently bought 160 acres and last weekend we camped out there in a tent to pick out a yard site, etc. 

Well we were a bit shocked to find hundreds of very fresh coyote tracks around all the dugouts/ponds. Like many many coyotes. We realized they must be there eating eggs. Something had to be going on because there wasn't one duck or goose anywhere on our land and that his highly unusual for the area. We were camping right near one of the ponds. While in the late evening we were sitting around the fire and suddenly out of no where a coyote screamed!! He was RIGHT THERE but we couldn't see him due to the fire light. Then another and another....soon the hills were filled with screaming howling coyotes. I have never heard anything like that. Never in my life been scared of coyotes, but we were surrounded. Very unnerving. 

Now we are planning on building a house where THEY live. This is their home and we are the intruders. Is there anything we can do to the fence line that would make them think twice about entering? The property is fully fenced. Would two strands of bear strength electric fence do anything? What about putting a scent around that would scare them off...like bear urine or something?? I don't know I am just grasping at straws. 

What about mammoth donkeys? I LOVE donkeys and getting a few wouldn't bother me at all. Mules? Certain breeds of dogs? 

We would like to get away with not killing them if we can. Another thought we had was paintball guns. Those hurt bad! 

I have never given coyotes a second thought before...but large packs like that HAVE to be something to be concerned about. We have small ponies, small kids, cats and hopefully soon things like chickens, ducks and mini donkeys. 

And if worst comes to worst (prowling around the house) my man is capable of shooting them.


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## brosil (Dec 15, 2003)

I can speak well of Great Pyrennes dogs. You might need a couple. I doubt you'll shoot them out if there is that many.


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## coup (Feb 28, 2007)

advertise for trapper,hunter caller and let them get all that they can....


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## Jackie (Jun 20, 2008)

brosil said:


> I can speak well of Great Pyrennes dogs. You might need a couple. I doubt you'll shoot them out if there is that many.


A friend of mine has a dog rescue specializing in livestock guardian dogs...but I just can't see how one would chase down a coyote. They look so large and lumbering. But she also speaks highly of the GP breed. I just worry because every single one I have seen (including all the ones she owns) have major hip problems. 

What about an irish wolfhound? Anyone know about them? Those things look FAST!


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## copperpennykids (Sep 6, 2004)

First, I would get a trapper in there to get any that he can while you are still not living there and directly dealing with the coyotes. Then the Great Pyrenees.....

Great Pyrenees will make short work of coyotes. They are awesome! They may not kill very many, but the coyotes will find someplace else to live and work, and the Pyrenees will continue to guard/protect your family, your critters, your property.

Great Pyrenees can be quite fast - but they are also smart. They generally don't get into a foot race with a coyote. Their bark and presence will keep the coyotes at bay. If you have two Pyrenees (highly recommended for this much acreage) they will work as a team and then there will be more coyotes eliminated. 

Mine will head for the coyotes and then split into a Y, so that they can come at the coyotes from opposite directions. They basically drive the coyotes to one another. They dispatch them quickly (they can kill a coyote's neck with a strong shake of their head) and then move onto the next one.

As for hip problems, well, first purchase well-bred Pyrenees (and yes, there is a big difference!). Then feed them correctly - don't try to grow them too fast as puppies, feed a quality dog food. They do work very very hard.

Camille

P.S. Really know about what I am talking about. Our property is adjacent to 15,000 acres of timberland that is just teeming with wild game, including mountain lions, coyotes and bears. We haven't lost a single animal to predators in the 8 years we have owned Great Pyrenees - not even a chicken to a weasel. Best of all, my children are safe.


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## Jackie (Jun 20, 2008)

I hate to say it, but trapping is out of the question. For a few reasons. Until they invent a trap that kills a coyote instantly I wouldn't do that. Second, we have at least 5 neighbors within a mile or two. I wouldn't wish anything like that upon one of their wandering farm dogs. 

A Great Pyrenees sounds like a great dog though. As soon as we are actually living out there I will look into getting some.


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## seagullplayer (Nov 6, 2008)

Start shooting, you will run most of them off after you kill a few.

"See a coyote, kill it, don't form a commitee on coyotes."

Otherwise you are going to be living with the problem forever, you will not be able to keep livestock with them around. 
They are not stupid animals, they will move on, until you came there where no people where you are now.

Ask one of the local farmers, they will be glad to help you out, I am sure they understand just what they can do to livestock.

I like a shotgun for night work, big loud bang and you don't have to be as good a shot.

If you can't bring your self to killing them, you might want to reconsider homesteading, at least there.


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## ArmyDoc (May 13, 2007)

Fellow I know had problems with coyotes when he first bought his place, but doesn't now. What he did was to shoot one, and drag the carcass to the edge of the property. He said after shooting 2 or 3 and dragging them to the boarders that had more land beyond them (ie not the road) That they stopped coming back. His opinion is that the dead carcass served as notice to the rest that it there was danger beyond that point, and they didn't come on his land.


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## GREENCOUNTYPETE (Jul 25, 2006)

trap and snare you have tracks in regular runs set traps check them daily 

snares are more comonly used in the winter months 

see if there is a trapping class offered in your area , trapping is usualy unrestriced and needs no license if done on a farm to keep crop and herd dammage down


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## SFM in KY (May 11, 2002)

The only problem I've heard about with coyote packs and dogs is that one or two coyotes will "coax" a single farm dog out away from the buildings (may do it with a pair as well) and then the pack jumps them.

I'm not sure how Pyrs would fare with this sort of thing, they are a big dog and the heavy coat would help, but I've known of a lot of ranch dogs killed this way. I know a Pyr wouldn't have a problem with 2 or 3 coyotes and the areas where I've lived didn't have "big" coyote packs anymore. But it sounds as if you have a really heavy coyote population there and the pack behavior could be a problem.



I


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## Jackie (Jun 20, 2008)

Thanks guys. I am going to pick up 2 Pryrenees/Akbash X puppies at 7pm today. I told my man that we really need to get a couple of dogs. He is going up there to live in a tarp shack for a while and figured he better get two and take them with him. I knew the Hutterite Colony out here had the type I wanted IF we were to get dogs. I called them and they have 3 6 month old females left. I will probably end up getting all three.....lol!


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## plowjockey (Aug 18, 2008)

A properly built electric fence will help Coyotes and dogs make the decision to go elswhere.

They leave our lambs and hens alone.


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## glenn amolenaar (Mar 3, 2007)

Jackie,
Remember 1 coyote sounds like a dozen, most wilderness coyote's are very people shy. The ones that eat people food and stay around dwellings are the problem.
Glenn


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## cur huntin' kid (Apr 15, 2007)

You need to get you some yote hounds. Julys, Triggs, Running Walkers, Lurchers, and a lot of coonhounds make good yote hounds.


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## Jackie (Jun 20, 2008)

I was just talking to a friend of mine who raises sheep. She has 4 guardian dogs and has never looses any sheep to coyotes. She said that there is a hill in behind her sheep about 200 yards and she can watch coyotes sunning themselves on it. So she knows they are around but they don't dare mess with the dogs. 

She said it's best NOT to kill the coyotes because once you start killing them new coyotes move in. You are constantly training new coyotes to stay away. She said if you get some good dogs that really scare off the coyotes you don't need to kill any. THey will learn to stay away and teach their pups to stay away. You only have to train one family to stay away and they stay trained. Makes sense to me. There are enough coyotes in the country to constantly replace the ones that you kill off. She just lives about 20 miles north of where we are moving so she knows the area. It really makes sense to me.


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## Jackie (Jun 20, 2008)

cur huntin' kid said:


> You need to get you some yote hounds. Julys, Triggs, Running Walkers, Lurchers, and a lot of coonhounds make good yote hounds.


We don't have ANY coonhounds up here. Not that I have ever seen. Yote? I will have to look that up. Thanks.


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## Danaus29 (Sep 12, 2005)

Yote, short for coyote. 

Electric fences are your friend. Coyotes will hunt day or night so you must be on guard 24/7. A good strong lockable, dig proof shelter will keep your animals safe at night but you need to worry about them in the day also. 

Otoh, they are fascinating to watch and amazing to listen to.


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## meanwhile (Dec 13, 2007)

We have too many coyote here also. We are not good enough shots to try and shoot them ourselves but one hunter does occasionally shoot one. What we do is to have all male members of the household pee around an area we have "marked" as our space. It is around the Main House, the main barn, one path and the driveway. The men, and male guests pee all along each area. Some people claim that does nothing but we have never seen a coyote in our "space" since we started this plan. We also keep a box of cheap fire crackers. When we hear them come close to our "space" we toss out a couple of fire crackers or we shoot off blanks from a 38 or blast an air horn. We alternate the sound to keep them from becoming used to the noise. 

So far, they keep out of our "space" and we have outdoor trail cams and have never caught them on camera at night. We have caught them on camera just outside our "space" but so far, they seem to know where the line is.

Our dogs stay in their own dog run at night, with a side barn to get into for shelter. The fence is 7 feet high and has logs placed on both sides at the bottom to keep anyone from digging. So far, no coyote near it but one bear does go to the side and growls at the dogs each spring. It is young he bear and just being rude - he does not try to get in there - he just acts tough and then goes down the hill.

Good luck.


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## Pops2 (Jan 27, 2003)

you have to kill at least 80% every year to substantially reduce the population. new coyotes will try to move in no matter what. if their pack is bigger & stronger they'll force the other's out. contrary to the disneyesque mentality nature is not static & that includes the coyotes. they will stay as long as the environment is hospitable. hit them from different angles at different times to make your place inhospitable. don't discount foothold trapping. it does little or no damage to the neighbors dog and fido can be released by the trapper to limp around a few days.
Irish wolfhounds make good kill dogs but they can't consistantly catch coyotes. despite all the anecdotes about overweight rotties, mastiffs, labs & whatever, it takes FAST dogs to catch them like coldblood greys & stags. but your property is too small for that kind of work.
kill them or don't as you choose but the not killing them is BS. the lack of a concerted effort to kill them is why the desrt dog now lives in maine, florida & saskatchewan. the best thing that could happen to livestock keepers would be for the market for coyote furs to go through the roof.


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## Jackie (Jun 20, 2008)

K, I got my puppies today. Yes that was fast. But I LOVE the shorter hair of the Akbash and they were just 10 miles away AND they were older than little puppies. Here they are. Both females.


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## Montanarchist (Feb 24, 2005)

Or if you prefer.


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## Bencooper21 (Aug 22, 2007)

Nice looking dogs. Good luck with the coyotes.


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## Ross (May 9, 2002)

I think Yucca flats has the best advice on using livestock guardian dogs. Start them as young pups raised with the stock they are to guard ...... but he knows it best. Good luck with the dogs, I've read so many many posts and articles about the LGD wandering, threatening people, killing the livestock they're supposed to guard, simply not doing their job, and still adding the annual costs (vet, food, grooming, replacement.....) regardless of effectiveness they're not for me. Shoot the coyotes and snare them, if you catch a neighbors wandering dog.... well it shouldn't be wandering.


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## Wolf mom (Mar 8, 2005)

All the coyotes you are hearing may not be that many. When they sing to eachother, it sounds af there are hundreds and in actuality only a few. They sound like a lot as you are not familiar with them & their singing. 

If you do have a lot, remember they are there because the eating is good. If you kill 'em off you'll probably be overrun with rats, rabbits & other vermin. 
As far as your pond, they may be coming for to drink water & the hunting is also good there for them. 

I'd fence in an area around your future compound: house, out buildings and pond(s) with field fencing and/or electric fencing. Dogs, donkeys, etc are all good, too. 

As you said, they were here first. I'd try to live compatably with them. I know that's hard as I have a den in the forest outside my fencing & really want to shoot the pair but they kill off the rabbit population & I like my garden. I also have dogs & a donkey. 

Guess I'm saying you have to bottom line it for yourself.


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## foxtrapper (Dec 23, 2003)

Jackie said:


> I hate to say it, but trapping is out of the question. For a few reasons. Until they invent a trap that kills a coyote instantly I wouldn't do that. Second, we have at least 5 neighbors within a mile or two. I wouldn't wish anything like that upon one of their wandering farm dogs.


When I catch something in one of my foothold traps that I didn't mean to catch, like a dog, I just let the dog go. No fuss, no muss, no big deal. Trapping isn't like you think.

Coyotes have 4 paws, and when they walk around, they place them on the ground a whole lot. So one coyote walking back and forth a few times can make an area look like it's infested with dozens of coyotes. Similarly when they sing and you're spooked, they sound 20 feet fall and as if there are thousands of them, when in fact there's likely only a few.


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## All country (Dec 23, 2003)

We lived here for 20 years and never lost anything to a coyote. We would watch the coyotes sun themselves. We even a pair walk right through the center of a chicken flock, never disturbing the birds. I let my chickens free range throughout the day only closing them up at night. 

One evening last week my son was heading out to close up the coop. He opened the front door and heard a lot of squawking. There right on the edge of our front porch was a coyote with a chicken in his mouth. As we headed out to check out the damage we discovered a massacre, 14 chickens dead and scattered all over my lawn! Thing that exasperated me the most is they didn't go after all the stupid roosters I need to get rid of, nooooo, they killed 12 of my good laying hens!

For the past 2 years the fellows around here who used to hunt them have stopped and the packs are growing too large. I know their hunting them kept the coyotes down to manageable numbers. I have always sort of had the mentality of why shoot the pretty doggie? Now I plan to shoot them myself!!!


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## Callis22 (Oct 9, 2020)

Jackie said:


> K, I got my puppies today. Yes that was fast. But I LOVE the shorter hair of the Akbash and they were just 10 miles away AND they were older than little puppies. Here they are. Both females.


Beware an Akbash will kill any pet that you have once he gets bout 2 years we made a mistake getting one he was raised as a puppy with our cocker spaniel and our cat, one day he just went crazy killed the cocker and the cat for no reason, I only weigh 100 pounds, I broke a rocking chair over his back trying to get him off the cocker, Then he turned on me i has to put a chair between me and him, walk slowly into the house, I got my 9mm and he was history.


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## Callis22 (Oct 9, 2020)

All needs to know a Akbash will kill all your pets even if he is raised with them as a puppy. once ours hit about 18 months old he killed the cat then attacked the cocker spaniel and he was raised as a 8 week old pup with both. I only wight 100 pounds so I broke a rocking chair over his back. He then turned on me I kept a chair between me and him backed slowly into the house a my 9mm took care of him. never get one if you have pets.


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## Fishindude (May 19, 2015)

You can put a dent in their population by aggressively hunting, trapping and killing them, but you will never wipe them out, canines are just too smart.
Keep your pets close by and any small livestock will need to be closely protected or fenced in a coyote proof enclosure.

We've got them all around us, hear them at night, etc. but rarely see them. I've shot a few out the back door and shoot one every chance I get, if I can get to a gun fast enough.
They learn to steer clear of the house and barn area in daylight hours.


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## muleskinner2 (Oct 7, 2007)

Unless you just want to hunt coyotes, the best thing to do is leave them alone. Once you move in and are living thee full time, they will move on. They set out in the brush and bark and yip at my dog every night, she just howls back. They all seem to be having a good time.


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## 101pigs (Sep 18, 2018)

brosil said:


> I can speak well of Great Pyrennes dogs. You might need a couple. I doubt you'll shoot them out if there is that many.


I have 4 Great Pyrennes that protect my stock. They will take care of any animal that is in their area.


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## 101pigs (Sep 18, 2018)

Callis22 said:


> Beware an Akbash will kill any pet that you have once he gets bout 2 years we made a mistake getting one he was raised as a puppy with our cocker spaniel and our cat, one day he just went crazy killed the cocker and the cat for no reason, I only weigh 100 pounds, I broke a rocking chair over his back trying to get him off the cocker, Then he turned on me i has to put a chair between me and him, walk slowly into the house, I got my 9mm and he was history.


I have Pyrennes,Akbash, German Shepherd. 2 Akbash/Pyrennes mix. I do have 4 Pyrennes and 2 German Shepherds. The Pyrennes live with my animals. Cows Pigs, Sheep, Chickens etc. They do keep other wild animals out of my stock fields. They also keep any other Dogs out that does not belong here. Got my Dogs when they were pups. Didn't have to train my Pyrennes they just took to guarding my stock when young. My stock Dogs live in the fields with my stock. They walk around the Fence lines a few times a day. I did have problem with a few Owls, Hawks, etc. for awhile. After shooting a few of them they didn't come back. My baby Pigs will hang around the Dogs. I hve had a few Cats killed by the LGD's The German Shepherds don't mess with the Cats. My Cats live mostly in the Barn and take care of Rats, etc.


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## oregon woodsmok (Dec 19, 2010)

New Zealand high tensile fence is supposed to keep them out. Not much else will keep them out and no livestock is safe from them. A neighbor had coyotes killing calves. It's not just poultry and small dogs that they will kill.

It would probably be cheaper to install the New Zealand fence than it would be to feed four Akbash dogs.


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