# Gas Cans: EPA requires all 50 states to be CARB compliant.



## GoldenCityMuse (Apr 15, 2009)

Wow! I did not even hear anything about new gas cans starting 01 Jan of this year had to be CARB compliant. What a shock! I was wondering why those useless new gas cans were everywhere now.

Sure wish I had stocked up on the old style with the seperate yellow vent at the back. I only have a few left that way. [had some stolen 2 different times several years back Grrrrrr!]

Anyway, I was going to sell my old style metal Jerry cans, because they have a bit of rust, but now i am having second thoughts. I may end up keeping them and buying new spouts for them at $8 each a pop. 

Anybody else in my situation?

Anyway, I am so ticked. I remember Walmart having the old style ones for about $4.96 for the 5 Gal. Gov't messing around again.


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## mnn2501 (Apr 2, 2008)

Have not bought a gas can in about 7 or 8 years -- whats going on? CARB Compliant?


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## Ninn (Oct 28, 2006)

I don't know what the acronym is for, but I know I don't like the new cans. The stupid spouts are not long enough to reach into the gas tank hole on a car!!!! You have to have a separate funnel and 3 hands to use it because of that darn switch and push down thingy! I hate it!!! On top of that, there is no vent for it, so I HAVE to keep it indoors, and my whole apt. smells like gasoline! If I leave it outdoors, it swells from the gas fumes expanding!! I want my old gas can back. I'll be looking for old ones at the flea market and using the new one to fill them up with. This is nuts. doesn't the government have anything else to do?


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## unregistered29228 (Jan 9, 2008)

This is the first I've heard about the new gas cans. Is there absolutely nothing the environmentalists and government can leave alone? Luckily we've got at least 3 older gas cans around....


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## alchemist317 (Nov 12, 2008)

To be precise, starting Jan 1, 2009 all gas cans manufactured or imported into the US have to comply with the CARB standard - California's standards in essence. Congress decided to extend this standard across the country - you get what you vote for ...

Anyway, if you're not a fan one can still find the old standard gas cans that were made before January in stock - get them while you can. Here's one link that still has some of the old-fashion metal cans still in stock (shipping is pricey though)

http://www.reliablepaper.com/Safety_Storage_s/5723.htm


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## frankva (May 21, 2009)

Been like that in Maine for several years. I spill more with a funnel. The chainsaw place did have a different style that had a push button valve spout, but they were $25 for a two gallon plastic can.


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## GoldenCityMuse (Apr 15, 2009)

CARB = Kalifornia Air Resources Board.

Yes, this EPA action sure seems to have slipped under the radar. I never heard anything about it. Where was the public input on this? 

I just ordered 6 of the metal spouts for the old style metal Jerry can. I still have about 4 of them, with the holders as well. Even these spouts are pricey. Ended up being $9 each after S&H.

Will be searching out yard /moving sales for peoples gas cans. Time to snap them up when and where you find them.

I also have 2 ~44 gal old oil barrels from my grandfather, I will be using those to possibly store gas in and use my barrel pump to then get it out.


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## elkhound (May 30, 2006)

just wait til the dead line on the light bulbs comes.i HATE..the squigly things...they are dim.i gues by then i should have a clsoet full of the regular bulbs boguht..how much room does a 1000 60 watt bulbs take up....lol


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## Wisconsin Ann (Feb 27, 2007)

light bulbs....I hate those new things. I'm going to try to go all LED here soon. the CFLs simply suck..from beginning to end.

1st, they're very expensive. 
2nd, they don't last any longer than the incandescent ones do. I changed the ones in the livingroom just the other week AGAIN because they'd started to go black.
3rd, the newer, high end ones that I bought for the bathroom take time to light. just like theold florescent ones did..remember? 
4th, according to the manufacturer, the lights will deteriorate faster if they're turned on and off more...so keep them turned on...
5th...and most importantly from a GREEN perspective...I can't throw the ones that break or die OUT. There is NO facility that will take them near me. So...I either throw them in the regular garbage, where they will leak the mercury into the soil (I betcha in 10 years they measure the soil at the local dump site and find it has to be cleaned up from all the mercury) or I just keep them in a box out in the garage....where they leak their mercury...etc.

as to gas cans...Youhave my full agreement...on everything everyone has said.


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## beaglebiz (Aug 5, 2008)

alchemist317 said:


> - you get what you vote for ...


Amen and agreed


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## mnn2501 (Apr 2, 2008)

I love CFLs- they last forever, so what if it takes 2-3 seconds for it to come on.
The original ones we not a true white light, but recent ones have been. I switched my entire house and will never go back.


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## beaglebiz (Aug 5, 2008)

mnn2501 said:


> I love CFLs- they last forever, so what if it takes 2-3 seconds for it to come on.
> The original ones we not a true white light, but recent ones have been. I switched my entire house and will never go back.


How do you plan to dispose of them when they burn out?
If they break, toxic mercury vapor enters our atmosphere
I have had these for years, and a few burnt out, and I threw in the trash can. Didnt know about the danger


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## Ninn (Oct 28, 2006)

wait, we HAVE to change light bulbs? what in creation is going on around here? did someone drop congress on their heads? we are forced to use something that cannot be safely disposed of, they are taxing the cattle and pigs for the methane they produce, and yet they STILL block production of 100 % electric vehicles. I bet we don't get air pod cars for years! (they run totally on compressed air!)


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## edcopp (Oct 9, 2004)

alchemist317 said:


> To be precise, starting Jan 1, 2009 all gas cans manufactured or imported into the US have to comply with the CARB standard - California's standards in essence. Congress decided to extend this standard across the country - you get what you vote for ...
> 
> Anyway, if you're not a fan one can still find the old standard gas cans that were made before January in stock - get them while you can. Here's one link that still has some of the old-fashion metal cans still in stock (shipping is pricey though)
> 
> http://www.reliablepaper.com/Safety_Storage_s/5723.htm


You get what you vote for?

I do not recall ever voting on any of this. I do remember some mandates. EPA itself was mandated, born of a presidential order I think. No voting allowed.


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## 7.62mmFMJ (Nov 19, 2008)

I am getting poor ordering stuff that will never be available EVER AGAIN because of the bedwetting bureaucrats and their enablers.

I ordered from Amazon - the can is more but the shipping is much cheaper. $38 shipping versus $138 from reliable paper. 4 cans and 4 spouts.


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## adenblue (Apr 12, 2008)

Does anyone have a link to the regulation? Or news article?


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## GoldenCityMuse (Apr 15, 2009)

7.62mmFMJ said:


> I am getting poor ordering stuff that will never be available EVER AGAIN because of the bedwetting bureaucrats and their enablers.
> 
> I ordered from Amazon - the can is more but the shipping is much cheaper. $38 shipping versus $138 from reliable paper. 4 cans and 4 spouts.


One can certainly spend a lot of money on preparation. I am on a frugal budget, and will not bee too spendy. And of course, I DO have sufficient cans right now., just needed spouts.

Also don't forget to be ordering gaskets. There are 2 kinds. The first is a thick one which goes with the cap, and it covers the vent hole. 
the 2nd is a thin gasket which goes with the spout, and it leaves the vent hole uncovered so you can pour properly.

I would order 2-3 extra for each gas can you have.

Thin gasket for an example.


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## 7.62mmFMJ (Nov 19, 2008)

Good point. 

Like firearms, parts will be available for a while. So the can and the spout are the first priority!


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## Wisconsin Ann (Feb 27, 2007)

I've not been able to find a link to this regulation other than that it's adopted in some states (texas being one of them). Don't know if there's something PENDING or if it's actually a US thing, or just a state thing so far.

Ninn...yes. there was a piece of legislation quietly slipped through last year that says incandescents will be gone by..hmm...2012? There are exceptions..like special purpose lights...infrared, heatlamps, appliance lights, etc.

CFLs are supposed to replace them, and the makers of incandescents (GE, Sylvania, etc.) have agreed to comply. Australia already has a ban in place, and the EU has followed suit. And, of course, I can't find a link just now to THAT either. :grump: There was quite a bit of chatter about it after the bill passed. It was sort of slipped into a bunch of other stuff at the time on the floor of the House.


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## GoldenCityMuse (Apr 15, 2009)

From Federal Register / Vol. 72, No. 37 / Monday, February 26, 2007 / Rules and Regulations

SUMMARY: EPA is adopting controls on
gasoline, passenger vehicles, and
portable fuel containers (primarily gas
cans) that will significantly reduce
emissions of benzene and other
hazardous air pollutants (&#8216;&#8216;mobile
source air toxics&#8217;&#8217. Benzene is a known
human carcinogen, and mobile sources
are responsible for the majority of
benzene emissions......
....California. Finally, we are adopting a
hydrocarbon emissions standard for
portable fuel containers beginning in
2009, which will reduce evaporation
and spillage of gasoline from these
containers.

Back in 2007, I never heard much about it. Sure wish I would have been aware at the time.

Couple more articles

*States Begin to Tighten Up on Gas Can Emissions*



And another one.
NEW EPA RULINGS ON PORTABLE FUEL CARRIERS

So, what this means is that you should be proactive in looking for older style gas cans at yard sales, flea markets,estate sales. Stock up, even if you don't need it, you can sell it to someone else who does.


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## adenblue (Apr 12, 2008)

Thanks GoldenCityMuse! I was on the EPA site for too long and got nowhere. I will give some people a heads up about this.


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## GoldenCityMuse (Apr 15, 2009)

Here are some other links with good info, Blitz has several helpful links.

ItzaGasCan

Fuel Containment 

*Fuel Containment Blitz*

Blitz Search


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## GoldenCityMuse (Apr 15, 2009)

Went to an estate sale, found a 2.5 gal Gott gas can for $1! It was dirty, but it has both spout and vent cap. A useful thing to have for filling up my autos.

Keep an eagle eye out for the good cans. It was in a metal storage shed in the back yard, not in the garage.


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## tab (Aug 20, 2002)

That's why BJ's did not have regular light bulbs! Off to Family Dollar to stock up. I only use a few but where I use them they are still needed! 

The gas can thing I did not know about. I know I have been seeing signs like do not fill the can unless it is sitting on the ground it will explode, etc. etc. Okey dokey......I have several five gallon plastic cans that had car wash chemicals in. They are heavy duty and have a small vent in. Had one in service for years. Of course they aren't approved....if they start refusing to allow me to fill them I will use the approved ones, transfer and go back. 

Why is benzene in gas? Is it a normal part of the gasoline or one of the many additives? Not to be dumb here but I guess gasoline is not something I have spent much time researching.


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## 7.62mmFMJ (Nov 19, 2008)

> Why is benzene in gas? Is it a normal part of the gasoline or one of the many additives? Not to be dumb here but I guess gasoline is not something I have spent much time researching.


Gasoline is composed of hydrocarbons in a given carbon chain range (5-10C) with Octane being the average. It is made with aliphatic and aromatic hydrocarbons. Aliphatics are primarily alkanes and the aromatics are benzene rings (benzene, toluene, xylene, ethylbenzene) which are benzene with an additional methane/ethane group(s) attached along the ring. 

The aromatics have alternate double bonds and that is where the energy comes from. If we used only alkanes we would have less bang per gallon and it would be like an ethanol car.


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## Gary in ohio (May 11, 2002)

Our wallmart is full of good old fashion plastic gas cans. No carb spouts on them. I have yet to see any CARB cans in Ohio.


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## WayneR (Mar 26, 2007)

There are warnings on many gas pumps NOT to put gasoline into unapproved containers (glass,etc.) under penalty of law.

Will the old containers be 'granfathered' or simply declared illegal and banned.


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## tab (Aug 20, 2002)

So does benzene evaporate that readily that a vent is a problem? Isn't the pressure building up more of an issue?


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## 7.62mmFMJ (Nov 19, 2008)

The regulators believe that the gasoline vapors escaping from the millions of gas cans affect air quality with relation to smog. There is really no danger from the incidental exposure to gasoline fumes from normal use.


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## GoldenCityMuse (Apr 15, 2009)

I have some extra metal gas can spouts for sale on the barter board if anyone is interested.
http://homesteadingtoday.com/showthread.php?t=317470


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## edcopp (Oct 9, 2004)

I am on the "catch me if you can" plan. It is difficult enough to buy gas, not to mention a bunch of new cans and equipment. Are the powers that be going to place a gas cop in each gas station? Perhaps the job of gas cop will be part of the financial recovery.:clap:


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## alchemist317 (Nov 12, 2008)

edcopp said:


> You get what you vote for?
> 
> I do not recall ever voting on any of this. I do remember some mandates. EPA itself was mandated, born of a presidential order I think. No voting allowed.


We keep voting in these "elite" morons that think they're our superiors and have to pass all these laws "for our own good". They pass whatever they like and rather than tar and feathering them we say "Thank you Sir, may I have some more?" How many politicians lost their jobs over the assault weapon ban? And how many over the EPA and other "environmental" mandates? Politicians largely tabled gun control not because they wanted to but because they risked losing their job. Until these intrusions garner the same effect they're going to keep happening. :soap:


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## Wilbur (May 7, 2004)

mnn2501 said:


> I love CFLs- they last forever, so what if it takes 2-3 seconds for it to come on.
> The original ones we not a true white light, but recent ones have been. I switched my entire house and will never go back.


A friend of mine changed ALL the lights in his house to CFL's at his wife's insistence. After 3 fires (fortunately they were home) and numerous times having to replce them he switched all back. He figures it was about a $5K "experiment". 

I try to keep my house mercury free.....for environmental reasons yunnerstand.


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## texican (Oct 4, 2003)

...And just last month, mine flew out of the back of the truck somewhere along the road, or someone 'borrowed' it while I was at work.


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## Gary in ohio (May 11, 2002)

Wilbur said:


> A friend of mine changed ALL the lights in his house to CFL's at his wife's insistence. After 3 fires (fortunately they were home) and numerous times having to replce them he switched all back. He figures it was about a $5K "experiment".
> 
> I try to keep my house mercury free.....for environmental reasons yunnerstand.


IF your going to family dollar to buy cheap CFL's then you get what you deserve. A cheap CFL. If you buy and GE or other name brand will last a lot longer and really dont cost that much more. As for mercury, There is such a small amount in a bulb and ONLY matters if its broken. Many name brand CFL's have very very small amounts of mercury. Also keep in mind the biggest soruce of mercury in your home is an old tilt thermostat, almost 100 times more than a CFL and the world hasnt died off with them in homes for 40+ years.


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## GoldenCityMuse (Apr 15, 2009)

I have bought cheap CFL's & a couple more expensive ones. Never had any problems with them, except for when the house was struck by lightning several years back & fried the electronic ballast.

The mercury in them does not bother me, I don't break them open often.

I have sure saved 30% or more on electric bill by converting to all CFL's. It has been worth it to me.
Most CFL's are not made for recessed lighting or other confined light fixtures.


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## texican (Oct 4, 2003)

I guess I'm doing something wrong with my cfl's. It's been five years or so now, and the danged things keep working. I've got one in the kitchen fixture... I use to replace regular bulbs every three months.


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## Blu3duk (Jun 2, 2002)

I wonder if the NATO jerry cans will no longer be available for sale in the several states then anytime soon???? whilst i do not have any of them, they do take a different spout than the blitz cans do.

It was not but a few years back, maybe 20, that the talk was that no farmer was going to be able to have any tank larger than a 5 gallon tank to avoid spills, talk about TSHTF over that rumour...... now they have in place regulations that we cant have over 125/130 gallon bulk tanks to reduce the possibilities of a spill although a spill over 55 gallons requires an evironmental cleanup crew to be dispatched by the EPA regualtions..... which does not always happen, and with each and ever semi-truck that wrecks you have a possible 200 plus gallon spill ready to happen anyway..... moronic laws happen but not by accident

The USDA Forest Service requires that those cans be used on all public lands and has been that way for a few years..... and the local auto parts store was dinging the loggers $95 per 5 gallon can cause they had to have them and no one had informed the loggers of the fact openly [auto parts owners wife is a FS ranger so he knew what was coming and capitalized a gouged as usual] And this year IDWR has required that any container used to fill a motor on a dredge or auxiliary pump for power sluices be done so from a can no larger than 2 gallons and be CARB compliant and no cans near the water larger than 5 gallons that are not compliant..... it is getting so a fella cant have a hobby or earn a living mining anymore either that these folks dont try to increase the work involved in getting metal to market..... if it aint grown then it is mined and these desk jockeys lay awake nights trying to figure out how to implement something new to make it look like they are doing their jobs and being productive enough to warrant a raise.....

William <----- back after a hard drive failure 3 weeks ago
Idaho


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## HermitJohn (May 10, 2002)

Thought I had posted on this thread, maybe one of those frequent times when board locks up about when I am ready to post. If my post is here and I just missed seeing it this go around, then please forgive the duplication.

Anyway the only reason I went to cfl in my reading light was cause I was replacing incandescents every week, maybe once in a while one would last a month. My memory isnt that bad that I dont remember when incandescents lasted several YEARS not several days.

Anyway the cfl I put in is over 2 years now and works fine. Just had to get used to waiting for it to brighten up after turning it on. And you cant cheap out, get one rated to actually produce some light, forget the "equivalency" crap on label. It works ok. As to mercury, geesh give it a break from chanting the same old refrain, the 4ft fluorescent tubes used since WWII in every store, office, warehouse, and factory have more mercury. If you are worried about mercury in a fluorescent then you have lot catching up to do. There are millions and millions and millions of them out there and many custodian types even intentionally break the old ones so they fit in the trash better.

And I actually put cheapo fluorescent shop light upstairs and sprang for the "daylight" 4ft tubes for it. WOW, now that is impressive, lots of bright good looking light. Nothing like the old days of fluorescents when I referred to them as the flickering death ray that would give you a killer headache before finishing you off.

As to the gas cans, no idea what these new burocratic wonders look like, but if main problem is no vent, how hard can it be to just add a vent?? One guy here on HT even pointed out how he used a simple tire valve stem to add a vent to a plastic gas can that didnt come with a vent. Sure it would work fine on metal can also.

As to spout for old jeep cans, I just bought some pvc fittings and made my own for couple or three dollars. I really dont understand this mindset about only being able to use things exactly as they came from the factory gods. I insist things I own be useful, if that means I have to re-engineer them, so be it.


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## HermitJohn (May 10, 2002)

GoldenCityMuse said:


> Here are some other links with good info, Blitz has several helpful links.
> 
> ItzaGasCan
> 
> ...


Ok the third link shows the new line of Blitz cans. Big whoop. They are just the same old cans with a new plastic shut off valve in the spout. I never liked the Blitz plastic cans in old style cause instead of a real vent, they just had a small tube in the spout to let air in to replace the gas that came out. If you need a vent, get a 50cent tire valve, drill hole in can, install the tire valve and remove the core, just screw cap on valve to close the vent. As to the shut off in the new style spout, depends how well it works, it might actually be bit of an improvement to keep unintentional spills to a minimum. I've had cans tip over and cap pop off, this might actually be solution to such accidents. Looks like you can even buy the new valves to update old cans though not sure why they dont all have the long flexible spout extension. Betcha same size hole and screw on threads.


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