# Grid Tie_Vs_Self Contained System..



## 12vman (Feb 17, 2004)

I'd like some opinions on this subject..

Personally I'm an advocate of self contained systems. I can't understand the fact of feeding the grid with energy while the folks 3 tramsformers down the road has no interests at all of conserving energy. Seems fruitless to me.. :shrug: 

Two years ago, I applied for a certification from these guys and was basically turned down because of my lack of experience in grid tie systems. (I met all of the other "needed" criteria, btw) There's plenty of room for developing/installing non-grid tie systems in many applications. Do I sense another closed door union brewin' here?  

Anyhow, just a couple of my thoughts. Thanks in advance..
Don


----------



## Metcalf (Feb 15, 2007)

The idea of grid-tied is great.....if everyone else was on the same page. But like you said, feeding power to the grid and having someone else waste it is like a slap in the face. Not to mention that the power company will only pay you about 50-60% of what you have to pay when you need it back later per KW. I don't mind the grid connect fee, but not being able to buy the power back for the same cost I sold it for is just lame. 

Grid tied systems are basically a substitute for the high cost of battery storage systems and larger inverters.

Plus, if the grid does go down if you don't have batteries and an inverter you are out of luck anyways.

If you could find a way to make a lot of off the grid power you may be able to sell a pretty large amount of it back and make a profit. But we are talking a 25KW array cap size so profits are never going to be that much. I would give just about anything to get a check at the end of the year from the power company though! That would be a nice change!


----------



## CJ (May 10, 2002)

We don't plan on tying into the grid. Part of the reason we want to be OFF of it is to not have to deal with the electric company, and to NOT have utility lines on our land, ugh.


----------



## OntarioMan (Feb 11, 2007)

Lets face it, the power company is in business to make money - and we cannot fault them for that, nor should we expect them to either manage, promote or encourage a grid-tie program. Government must become involved - government must put programs in place to encourage conservation, to promote small power generation from alternative sources, create subsidies, change the laws/rules - whatever it takes.

Although I don't know all the details - Ontario Canada now has program(s) which promote grid-tie systems - where they'll actually pay you more for your produced electricity than what you pay for grid electricity. I'll have to look for the web link.


----------



## Jim-mi (May 15, 2002)

The rules and reg's are changing . . . at a snails pace.

My local utility charges 9.3 cents per KWH.
Those sweet hearts (last I checked) would pay me a whopping 2.95 cents per KWH for my generation.

I have chosen not to "tie" (read backfeed) in for that wonderfull deal.

Yes I prefer my batt bank.
Down side tho is that my system is large enough that often I have to shut down part of the system because I can't use all the power my system can generate.
My power "dump" is a window airconditioner or a resistance heater.

It is nice to be my ***Power Company*** . . . . . . .smile


Oh yes nabcep . . . . I'll do the mods a favor and not post my thoughts


----------



## sgl42 (Jan 20, 2004)

A few utility bills I've had have broken out the usage fee from the infrastructure fee, and as I recall, the infrastructure was about 1/2 the cost with average usage. I.e., if your electric bill is $100, probably about $50 of that is the cost of the electricity you use, and $50 is the amortized cost of the power lines, transformers, etc. So, if you cut your consumption to 10% of what it typical, your bill will probably only go from $100 to $55, not to $10. (ie, 10% of $50 usage is $5, but the infrastructure cost is fixed at the same $50, so total bill is $55).

I think the reason grid-tie systems are popular is that few people in the general population are willing to design their houses or change their lifestyle to be energy efficient. They want to run the dishwasher, dryer, washing machine, A/C, hairdryers, all at the same time without thinking about it, but still think they're "green", so they buy the $50k solar panel grid tie system to bolt onto their 3,000 sq ft mansion, and pat themselves on the back for their concern for the environment. The organization the OP mentioned is simply responding to where the money is, unfortunately.

--sgl


----------



## georgec (Jul 9, 2007)

Grid tie-in systems make sense for a lot of people. These systems allow people to add solar panels or wind mills, thus lowering their carbon footprint without having to make a radical lifestyle change.


----------



## OntarioMan (Feb 11, 2007)

Yup, "fixed" fees are definately counter-conservation. What they should do is raise the price of electricity and eliminate all fixed fees - if you don't use any electricity, you shouldn't pay. Some electric bills are so complicated that most folks don't even have a clue of what they're paying for - they just pay it. 

Eliminate all fixed fees and make "net metering" mandatory for all power companies. 

Similary, lots of companies now producing "energy efficient" products are taking advantage of the consumers ignorance and the "energy efficient" buzzword - sure these products are more energy efficient, but some are nowhere near being cost effective when you consider the increased purchase price.




sgl42 said:


> A few utility bills I've had have broken out the usage fee from the infrastructure fee, and as I recall, the infrastructure was about 1/2 the cost with average usage. I.e., if your electric bill is $100, probably about $50 of that is the cost of the electricity you use, and $50 is the amortized cost of the power lines, transformers, etc. So, if you cut your consumption to 10% of what it typical, your bill will probably only go from $100 to $55, not to $10. (ie, 10% of $50 usage is $5, but the infrastructure cost is fixed at the same $50, so total bill is $55).


----------



## Windy in Kansas (Jun 16, 2002)

Grid inter-tie systems do make a lot of sense. As an example my well pump needs a tad over 7000 to run and more to start. Why should I buy a large enough inverter for an off system to operate it when a grid inter-tie will take care of the sudden and large load?

Grid inter-tie could mean few or no batteries if you choose that route. 

If one has a wind generator grid inter-tie system it could easily allow for a continual flow of electricity without much in the line of batteries.

I can see many advantages going either way. 

I think that I would personally want to be off grid so that I don't plunk down a monthly fee just to have a meter, or worse two meters one for in-going and one for out-going. Also being off-grid would prevent utility company employees access whenever they wish.


----------

