# A few pictures of our herd and operation



## Von Helman (May 16, 2012)

When I started with sheep I purchased a mix of sheep breeds to see which one I liked the most. I settled on Suffolk because I liked their large size, their strong form, and their overall looks. 



Currently during this season when the pasture lands are still a little barren and the spring grass is just starting we feed the sheep in the corral each morning before we pasture them and then once again after they return. This of course helps them to stay healthy, fed, fat and exercised. 
Here are the sheep being fed in one of the corrals 




 


We feed them a mixture of bean hay, Alfalfa, and Barley which we grind up together using a tractor attachment which allows us to then shoot it all into large empty feed sacks for easy storage and access. Therefore when we go to feed the sheep each day we simply grab the needed number of sacks and simply dump them evenly into the various feed troughs. 





Here is a picture of us feeding the bean hay (on the trailer) and Alfalfa & Oats into the Molino and getting is all sacked up. By mixing it together and sacking it up it takes an entire day (a long day using several guys) but then we have feed sacked and ready to go for about two months. 



 





Here is the bean hay stack for this season seen here with the workers on top so you have an idea of the size of the hay stack. We get all our hay (seen here) free as we trade it for the sheep manure which is then used as fertilizer. 




We also use a special concentration feed consisting of dried molasses, finely ground-up grains, corn, and other nutrients to feed the mothers and their lambs so both develop healthy. This special mixture also helps the mothers with their milk production which of course in turn helps the lambs. 





Some of our Lambs this year 









Here are a few pictures of our sheep I took yesterday while they were out in the pasture.




Two of our studs 



 



 






And some of our smaller ram lambs that were born 4 months or so ago


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## trainv (Apr 30, 2013)

wow great herd, breed and feeding operation!!!


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## Ross (May 9, 2002)

Hard to go wrong with Suffolks We still have quite a few Suffolk crosses with Arcott that gives a black sheep with a finer black wool. Small frame more meat but that suffolk hardiness stuck through.


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## Von Helman (May 16, 2012)

trainv said:


> wow great herd, breed and feeding operation!!!



Thank you for the nice compliment. I really appreciate it after taking the time on a slow dial-up connection to get the images resized, loaded up on Photobucket, and then getting the thread up. 

Also feel free to ask any related sheep questions and I'll try to answer as best I can, but be forewarned I am by far NO expert on sheep.


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## Von Helman (May 16, 2012)

Ross said:


> Hard to go wrong with Suffolks We still have quite a few Suffolk crosses with Arcott that gives a black sheep with a finer black wool. Small frame more meat but that suffolk hardiness stuck through.



Yea I agree and I really like the Suffolk hardiness. I have a friend who has _Pelibuey _because they are prolific breeders and birth twice a year and often birth twins but they are not a very hardy breed IMHO. 

My friend has about 1500 head of Pelibuey but I would need just half that number to produce the same weight in sales (Or same amount of $$) because the Suffolk are that much larger.


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## Von Helman (May 16, 2012)

also from yesterday 






 



From last year 

 



As I get more images loaded I'll post them


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## Moboiku (Mar 7, 2014)

Thanks so much for sharing! What is "bean hay"?


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## Von Helman (May 16, 2012)

Moboiku said:


> Thanks so much for sharing! What is "bean hay"?



Well I call it bean hay because its whats left over from the bean crop. Also known as bean forage. You can google it to learn more but we use it and the sheep eat it by itself or as we do we mix it up with Alfalfa and Barley and then grind them in a molino until its a fine dry feed. I'll have to take a few pictures tomorrow and post them so you can have a close up


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## Moboiku (Mar 7, 2014)

That would be awesome! Are these soybeans then?


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## Von Helman (May 16, 2012)

Moboiku said:


> That would be awesome! Are these soybeans then?



I think this hay came from pinto beans but most types of beans I think will work. 

The bean hay is very rugged and good. I found this on the internet 



> If you're talking about soybean hay,Yes it makes great hay. My Dad and many others here used soybeans for hay back when tobacco was the main crop. We would mix German Millet when seeding the beans to help keep the bean stalks standing up. Cows will walk away from grass hay to eat bean hay even if it has some mold in it. If you unroll hay I can tell you up front it's very hard to unroll bean hay. The furr on the stalks and leaves makes it stick together so it doesn't unroll well. Feeding in hay rings and such or small squares works good. I have neighbors that still use bean hay every year here. There are tall varities of bean seed just for haying or regular seed will do. The tall varity gets as tall as fence post on a good year. Takes a good machine to cut it with all the runners it puts out.
> 
> We also use pearl millet in this area. Get 3 cutting and also makes great hay. I've weaned calves on pearl millet hay and gotten good gains. I've seen it mixed in soybeans for hay also.
> 
> ...



You can feed the sheep the hay when its whole but its much better to shred / grind it (molino it). As I said the sheep will eat it simply by itself once ground /shredded and many ranchers only feed their sheep bean hay but I prefer to grind it along with Alfalfa and barley because adding those two really does add a lot of additional nutrients. Even though shredded very finely / small, the bright green from the Alfalfa really stands out and the sheep can smell it and as your know what grazing animal doesn't love Alfalfa. 

As I mentioned bean farmers often times will trade their bean hay for your animal manure so you can get a lot of forage bean hay for free and the farmer gets great natural fertilizer. We have to go pick up the hay in the fields so we have that cost but we can get as much as we want for the entire year for just the cost of the workers and diesel for the tractor. Then by mixing the bean hay as I mentioned it really goes a long way. 

Our advantage is we are located in a very rural farming area with thousands of acres of farming fields around us so hay here is in abundance unlike most places where hay can be expensive. Even with our large pasture land we still use this bean hay all year around because for us we like it and have cheap access to it.


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## po boy (Jul 12, 2010)

Wow, very impressive..

Where are you located?


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## Moboiku (Mar 7, 2014)

Great info - thanks very much for that. I grow a variety of dry beans every year but never thought of offering the dried plants to the sheep after the season. Though from the sound of it, they are cutting the hay before it produces any beans 



> Bean hay needs to be cut any time after the hulls starts to form - when the bean is small in the hull.


which makes me wonder why a bean farmer would be willing to hay it at that point.


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## Von Helman (May 16, 2012)

Moboiku said:


> Great info - thanks very much for that. I grow a variety of dry beans every year but never thought of offering the dried plants to the sheep after the season. Though from the sound of it, they are cutting the hay before it produces any beans
> 
> which makes me wonder why a bean farmer would be willing to hay it at that point.



Maybe he misspoke because I don't think he meant they're cutting it before it produces the actual bean, that to me would be counter productive for any bean farmer. Some beans are cut at different times or sizes and some are cut and allowed to sit and dry in their pod while others are cut fresh when green. 

However with so many different varieties of beans (Dry, Pole, soy, etc..) each farmer and bean have their own methods of harvesting and you work with the type of bean you've planted and the equipment you have. As I mentioned we grow mostly pinto and black beans in this region and in large quantities. 


If you grow dry beans then you know after the pod is grown and you cut the plant for harvest there are the stalks and leaves left over. This is what is dried and used as hay. If you are not a commercial farmer and your bean crop is just a back yard garden type of set up then I'm not sure you'll have enough bean hay to go very far. It would require several acres, and of course the more acres, the more hay 

After the pods are harvested / picked up and separated whats left over stays in the fields for at least 15 days to dry out, after that its ready to pick up as bean hay. 


Even if you don't grow beans yourself in quantity just ask some local bean farmers in your area (if there are bean farmers around you) about a possible trade or just look into bean hay and see if its for you. Everyone has their own way of doing things as well as their own ideal diet for their animals. 

An example is I like to grind up our alfalfa while a friend of mine feeds it whole to his sheep by just spreading it out. Also each persons region provides different options for feed so what might work for one person might (and often times) doesn't work for another. 


Ok here is what the bean hay looks like whole (un-shredded) up close 






In my hand un-shredded bean hay 






Here is what it looks like after its ground / shredded in my hand 









Then as I mentioned when we shred it and its all mixed together we sack it up in large feed sacks which makes it easier to handle. We take the full feed sacks and stack them up in a large mountain inside the pole barn. 



 



Each day we just grab a feed sack full of shredded hay mixture and walk it over to the feed troughs and evenly shake it in and the sheep do the rest. 


 



I could post a lot more about bean farming but then I think it would be off topic and in the wrong section. However I'll try to answer any questions regarding bean hay that I can.


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## LuLuToo (Dec 19, 2015)

I don't know anything about sheep, but would like to learn. It looks like you have quite a few. How many sheep do you keep? Why do some of them have red marks on them? 

Interesting to read about bean hay. 

Thanks for sharing!


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## Von Helman (May 16, 2012)

LuLuToo said:


> I don't know anything about sheep, but would like to learn. It looks like you have quite a few. How many sheep do you keep? Why do some of them have red marks on them?
> 
> Interesting to read about bean hay.
> 
> Thanks for sharing!



The internet provides a great opportunity to read and learn a lot about anything you have an interest in, including sheep. My suggestion is to read and learn as much as you can then decide what breed is best for you or your region and then ensure you have enough infrastructure in place to handle 2-3 sheep. 

Once you actually own sheep you will slowly gain your firsthand experience and in time you just add to your experience library and find what works best for you. 

Currently we run about 250 sheep and my goal is to eventually have a steady herd of about 800. However I am doing this more on a commercial scale rather than say someone who is only interested in what I call a backyard sized herd of under 50. 

Something else I learned through trial and error is you really do not need a great deal of land but you will always need feed. I'll post later a more detailed post regarding what I discovered firsthand with having large acreage for our sheep and discovering those pitfalls 


Regarding the red marks, I assume you're referring to the paint we use. We use spray paint on the sheep to mark them for various reasons including but not limited to indicating which ones have medical issues we need to keep an eye on, or which animal gets cut at night and fed more. The numbers on the sides indicate which baby corresponds to the mother by her ear tag as the babies do not yet have ear tags. 

We number our babies so when they have any issues we know which one we're dealing with as when you have a large herd it can be a challenge to remember what baby goes with what mother.


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## Von Helman (May 16, 2012)

po boy said:


> Wow, very impressive..
> 
> Where are you located?



Thank You


As for our location and because this is the internet I always just respond to that question by vaguely saying we're located in a very rural area of South Texas.


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## Bret (Oct 3, 2003)

Thanks for the pictures. Good work. Caring for the land and the sheep. The bean stack is interesting.


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## Von Helman (May 16, 2012)

Bret said:


> Thanks for the pictures. Good work. Caring for the land and the sheep. The bean stack is interesting.


The bean stack above with the workers on top is about 75 acres of bean hay. We got it all free in trade with a cousin for our manure which he is using for natural fertilizer. 

Did I mention it was *free* :sing:


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## Von Helman (May 16, 2012)

[FONT=&quot]Here is my molasses mineral tub which I use. As you can see the sheep always find a way to get poop pellets inside of it. Using a brush I simply tilt it up and brush it off and they once clean I sprinkle a thin layer of salt on top. After the sheep eat the salt this is what it usually looks like each morning. 
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[FONT=&quot]I will use anything that helps the animals be healthier and better nutritionally. There are some people who think these tubs are too expensive but I like them as I use the tubs again and I think the price is justifiable. [/FONT]
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[FONT=&quot]Again as posted in another thread here is the image of 15 ewe lambs we separated this morning so the mothers have a chance to fatten up. These lambs which are 3-4 months old are just too big and powerful to still be milking and they seem healthy enough to be on their own. 
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[FONT=&quot]Another thing I do is using a heavy-duty commercial push broom I sweep the corral every morning when I arrive. It makes it easier to keep the corral clean and I just push everything into a large pile. I have to clean the edge of the pile with a shovel and I simply shovel the edges up on top. After the pile is rather large we then use a trailer and a tractor to load it up and its used for fertilizer in the farming fields. 
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[FONT=&quot]The sheep actually prefer to sleep on the pile rather than the cold hard ground so I guess it works for them too. 
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[FONT=&quot]Here is picture of just a small portion of the corral where you can see its been swept. Notice on the bottom left of the image the red mineral tub. 
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## grandma12703 (Jan 13, 2011)

Von Helman said:


> [FONT=&quot]Here is my molasses mineral tub which I use. As you can see the sheep always find a way to get poop pellets inside of it. Using a brush I simply tilt it up and brush it off and they once clean I sprinkle a thin layer of salt on top. After the sheep eat the salt this is what it usually looks like each morning. [/FONT]
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 I also use the molasses mineral tubs and the sheep love them. Less waste as well.


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## Blueridgeviews (May 3, 2015)

Beautiful herd and impressive setup!
Do you use any guard animals for protection from coyotes or such?
Thanks


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## Von Helman (May 16, 2012)

Blueridgeviews said:


> Beautiful herd and impressive setup!
> Do you use any guard animals for protection from coyotes or such?
> Thanks



Yes, inside our corral at night with the sheep we keep a small German shepherd mix. Weâve had other dogs even up until recently but at this time we just have the one guard dog that does a great job. 



When the sheep are pastured we have a young ranch worker (Shepherd) who supervises them and one of the reasons I like pasturing them in the open fields opposed to in our sierra land is because the line of sight is far and wide. Therefore there is less chance of predators attacking when they see a human and you can see coyotes approaching from far way. We are training a two Border Collies in the pasture and while still young they are doing alright. 



Read more in my next lengthy post which discusses predators. 




Here is a picture of our small guard dog that is very docile with the sheep.


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## Von Helman (May 16, 2012)

As mentioned in my response to LuLuToo I thought Iâd share what Iâve personally learned regarding pasturing sheep, large acreage of land, and herding sheep. 

Again everyone is different and everyone has their ideal way of raising sheep or the number of sheep that best fits their ability or needs. Also everyone is different in what infrastructure they have and the amount of land they own. This is just my personal experience and opinions which might differ from other peoples but here goes, 

Our family (and extended family) is blessed with a lot of acreage and part of that land is in farming fields and the other larger portion is in grazing land in the low sierra. So having an abundance of land, one would think that would be ideal for pasturing large herds of animals and to some extent thatâs correct. For cattle and horses our sierra works well but I discovered for sheep not so much. 

With cattle they are much larger animals so there is less threat from predators and cattle for the most part return home at the end of the day on their own. Sheep on the other hand in the sierra are very prone to predators such as wolves, coyotes, mountain lions etc. There is no line of sight in the sierra and a predator uses this advantage to hide behind rocks, trees and hills and before you have time to react your lambs or sheep are being attacked and are dead before you can get to them. 

Sheep also do not return home on their own like cattle; on the contrary if left alone they just seem to purposely go deeper into the rough sierra until they are lost to nature. Itâs also harder to shepherd them in the sierra because of the line of sight, the hills, rocks, trees etc.. you lose sheep due to this as they will go into two different direction while another group might go in a third direction and along with more snakes, and other issues I discovered I just donât like pasturing the sheep in our sierra regardless of how beautiful it is in the spring green season. 

Also due to the distance from our corral and the sierra when we did have someone tending the sheep in the sierra we have to construct a make shift enclosure to house the sheep at night to protect them from predators and keep the active ones from wondering off. We also need more than one person watching the sheep if they are in the sierra as itâs twice the work and ten times the threat from predators. 

In regard to the make shift enclosure, this is both labor and time consuming as you have to haul the fencing materials and posts to where you want it and then construct it. You can leave it up for a few days or weeks at a time but you still have to have to have someone (two people) actually spend the night out with the animals at a rural camp site which also entails making sure that they have food, water and camping equipment, a gun, and toiletries. 

You also have to move the enclosure and pasture area every so often as the area around it will be grazed to nothing with 300 sheep in no time at all. Therefore even with all the acreage and beauty because of all the added issues for me I just find it not worth all the extra hassle when it comes to the sheep for this type of set up regardless if itâs such a large acreage with all the free feed for the sheep. 

A make shift sheep enclosure inside the Sierra 

 

Also due to the nature of the sierra and the rocky portions and just the overall make up inside plus the type of grass that grows there is a different type than regular pasture grass and therefore not as good or hardy for the sheep. For goats theyâll eat rocks and be happy. Therefore I just prefer a smaller pasture of good grass land and then to feed my sheep a better diet inside my corral. 

For someone starting out with sheep who doesnât have much land at all I tell them not to worry as long as they have a good feed program in place and have a steady regular diet. Sure you need some pasture land so they can get exercise but not all ranchers even pasture their sheep. 

Another issue is the fact I live in a semi-arid region where during the dry season this place could rival any desert and then on the flip side during the rainy season when things are green itâs a paradise like none other. Here is a picture of a water tank that was installed for the animals to use for water because during the dry season itâs as bad as any unbearable desert here. 

You can see just how nasty and dry it gets in the deep dry season. 
Water tank and the sheep while the Sierra is in the distant background 

 




Inside the sierra during the rainy season when things are green and it looks like a tropical paradise.

 

 


This extreme change in environment can cause issues for the diet if youâre just depending on pasturing the animals during the growing / green season and then switching to hay or feed during the dry months. Not only does it cause digestive issues with the sheep (Which does correct itself), the issue is not all grasses, weeds, and plants are good for the animals. 

One example is we have the occasional cacti here that during the spring time bud with prickly thorns bulbs and the sheep love these bulbs regardless of the fact that they cause serious bloat and its like eating apples laden with razor blades. So the person tending the herd has to be very watchful that the sheep do not digest too many of these, which most of the time is difficult. 

As many of you already know sheep are also picky eaters and there really needs to be a lot of grass and plants whereas goats will eat almost anything including my cooking. Also since we use the sierra for pasturing cattle and horses the sheep tend to eat the grass so low that it makes it impossible for the cattle and horses to eat much. A herd of 300+ sheep can mow a section of grass down to the roots rather quickly and do it all while making as much munching noise as a backyard lawn mower. 

Therefore I have discovered keeping the sheep closer to home in the coral at night makes things much easier for me. During the green season I pasture the sheep during the day and they do get to eat wild natural grasses and plants but having that base diet foundation really helps them. By feeding them a consistent diet daily year around and letting them pasture each day to get their daily exercise they are much fuller healthier animals. 

The only time we donât let them out to pasture is when itâs raining because they wonât eat anything and often times they will run or get a little wild with any thunder or lighting so we just feed them as we always do in the corral and just give them a day of rest. 

Others will swear the only way to raise sheep is to pasture them naturally like God intended them to be but often times these people are simply too cheap to spend the money on feed or infrastructure. You can also see it in their herd as their animals tend to be skinny. Iâm not knocking these people but rather I just disagree with how to care for my own animals. Ok maybe I am knocking them but only because I donât like to see skinny unhealthy animals regardless of what kind of animals they are. 



More to come


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## Von Helman (May 16, 2012)

I'm not sure if the images are actually opening up for you guys to see of they are just links. 

I'm trying to figure it out because at times the images open for me and then they don't but I attribute that to being on a really slow dial up connection. 

Please let me know if the images are automatically opening and appearing in the thread opposed to having to click on the links to be able to see the image 

Thanks


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## bsheep (Jul 28, 2011)

Pictures are visible to registered users, otherwise they are links


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## Von Helman (May 16, 2012)

bsheep said:


> Pictures are visible to registered users, otherwise they are links



Ok cool, thanks! I'll post more pictures as time goes forward.


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## Von Helman (May 16, 2012)

Today was a long hot day but working with 6 workers we were able to pull out the tractor and the shredder attachment and shred enough hay feed for the next 2-3 months. 



We started with 60 bales of Alfalfa and another 60 bales of barley and along with our huge stack of bean hay which we then mixed together and fed into the shredder. We were able to fill over 600 feed sacks of finely mixed feed. Iâm set for the next 2-3 months so if there are any rainy days or bad weather weâre set. 


I sure feel relieved when we have this chore done each time we do it because it just gives me peace of mind knowing weâre set for awhile. 
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The bad news is today I lost two lambs. The mother wasnât able to birth them or there was some issue and they were still born. So while I had a productive work day I did lose two lambs which is never fun. That makes 11 sheep / lamb deaths in the past 8 months. 

Now itâs time for a cold beer or three [/FONT]


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## Von Helman (May 16, 2012)

From another thread;




grandma12703 said:


> Discuss procedures and health issues that could come up in sheep raising. Maybe it would curtail some problems later on for someone.
> 
> Talk about your set up, your feeds, your worming schedule, your vaccinations, your breeds and on and on.





So let me add this here in my personal thread 
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[FONT=&quot]Todayâs topic is feed troughs and what Iâve learned through trial and error [/FONT]
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[FONT=&quot]Due to the number of sheep we have we feel its best in our operation to use long metal feed troughs. Anything that holds feed will work however Iâve discovered through trial and error that not all feed troughs work the same. 
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[FONT=&quot]It first depends on the type of feed youâre using and for us our primary feed is either sack feed or as Iâve already posted the mixed shredded hay mixture which is very fine. [/FONT]
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[FONT=&quot]Weâre fortunate because I have a cousin who has a shop here on the ranch who fabricates anything we need when it comes to metal including feed troughs. Last year we had 3 large feed troughs made that were not half moon but rather more squared off in their design. They were also deeper as to hold more hay and to prevent the sheep from tossing feed on the ground. [/FONT]
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[FONT=&quot]Here is the squared feed trough in the shop just after it was finished.[/FONT]
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[FONT=&quot]Here is an older half moon where the feed trey is rounded or half mooned at the bottom. [/FONT]
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[FONT=&quot]In theory what we thought would work out good actually didnât because the feed and hay got packed together at the bottom and the sheep had a hard time eating it or getting it out of the corners and crevasses thus resulting in the hay accumulating into a thick 2 inch bedding that we had to break up regularly. 
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[FONT=&quot]So recently I had some new feed troughs constructed that are what I call half moon bottoms (Semi circled) which work out much better as the sheep are able to push the granulated feed up the side and then lick it and eat it. Often times they leave nothing behind whereas in the squared off troughs there is always that mattress of packed hay at the bottom. [/FONT]
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[FONT=&quot]The new green feed troughs 
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[FONT=&quot]I'll add another post at a later date regarding a cleaver idea for feed troughs you might enjoy 
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## Von Helman (May 16, 2012)

As previously mentioned on the board when we have a ewe that births twins and the mother isnât sure or doesnât want one of the lambs we are then forced to tie the mother in a corner with a thin rope on one of her feet. 



We tie her very close to a fence post so she cannot move very far but she still has access to feed and water. This prevents her from really bucking or leaving the lambs which stay close to her. She eventually (usually 2 days) will accept them both and you can set her lose in a small pen / enclosure. [FONT=&quot][/FONT]
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[FONT=&quot]Here is a close up shot of the rope on her front leg[/FONT]
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[FONT=&quot]Here are the new twins born yesterday [/FONT]
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[FONT=&quot]Here is the ram lamb born day before yesterday[/FONT]

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## alabamagal (Jun 12, 2016)

Truly you are a dedicated Shepherd and it shows! Would you be kind enough to share the ratio of feed mixture?


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## alabamagal (Jun 12, 2016)

My husband was born and raised in Texas. And all his X(s) live in Texas. 

It's Beautiful in Texas and here where we live it's in North Alabama. We have mountains and it snows each year. My husband misses Texas! We too are building up a commercial flock. 

He is hoping to retire in the near future and Shepherd full-time in the next few years to come.


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## Von Helman (May 16, 2012)

alabamagal said:


> Truly you are a dedicated Shepherd and it shows! Would you be kind enough to share the ratio of feed mixture?



Sure not a problem other than I'm not sure exactly how to answer your question. 

When you ask what the ratio is of feed mixture what specifically are you inquiring about? The bean hay mixture or the other granulated feed mixture? or how often and how much we feed the sheep. 

Let me say the actual bean hay, Alfalfa, and barley mixture is mixed evenly together and sacked as I posted earlier in this thread and then each morning we feed several feed sacks (Filling the various feed troughs) and allow the sheep to eat before we let them out to pasture. We also feed them again by filling the feed troughs before they return to the corral so once back everything is ready for them to eat. Now that the spring grass is coming in we will cut down on the corral feeding to a degree but still feed them the needed hay to balance out the fresh spring grass.

As for the actual granulated feed we use, we buy that already pre-mixed and bagged. We use that for the mothers and lambs and feed them based on how many ewes and lambs are left in pens together but there is no set ratio other than just a general amount we feel is enough for their diet needs.

Let me know what specifically I can respond to and I'll be more than happy to share what I can.


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## alabamagal (Jun 12, 2016)

We plan to start using Soybean Hulls as a supplement feed. We know of a commercial breeder up north that does this. I'll post my findings and see how the flock likes it. We graze feed our flock but with the hot weather and not enough rain we need to supplement the food source due to lambing.


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## Von Helman (May 16, 2012)

alabamagal said:


> We plan to start using Soybean Hulls as a supplement feed. We know of a commercial breeder up north that does this. I'll post my findings and see how the flock likes it. We graze feed our flock but with the hot weather and not enough rain we need to supplement the food source due to lambing.



We use our hay mix as our supplement especially during the dry times. We also use pumpkin seed hulls we get from a relative and sprinkle those on top of the hay and the sheep like'em. I look forward to you sharing what your experience with the bean hulls is like. 

How many sheep do you have and how many acres you using for pasturing? How many sheep do you eventually want to have?


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## alabamagal (Jun 12, 2016)

I did a head count and we currently have 147 adult ewes and lambing each day, at the moment with singles, twins and triplets. Our goal is to have 500 working ewes in the next 18 months and within 3 years 700 working ewes. As my husband will be retiring about this time and this will help supplement our income.

Between our land and my grandfather's, we have a total of 150 acres of land that we own. In great hopes of purchasing more land over the next year and this will give us a total of about 180 acres of land, if the next land deal goes thru.

We are having some serious hot weather here and no rain and thus the pasture is not growing as it should be. Here are a couple snap shots taken last month and a picture of our two full blooded Dorper Rams. I'll start a new thread in a couple weeks of our setup. I don't want to high jack your thread.  But you by far have one heck of a setup that most envy!


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## Von Helman (May 16, 2012)

> I did a head count and we currently have 147 adult ewes and lambing each day, at the moment with singles, twins and triplets. Our goal is to have 500 working ewes in the next 18 months and within 3 years 700 working ewes. As my husband will be retiring about this time and this will help supplement our income.
> 
> Between our land and my grandfather's, we have a total of 150 acres of land that we own. In great hopes of purchasing more land over the next year and this will give us a total of about 180 acres of land, if the next land deal goes thru.
> 
> We are having some serious hot weather here and no rain and thus the pasture is not growing as it should be. Here are a couple snap shots taken last month and a picture of our two full blooded Dorper Rams. I'll start a new thread in a couple weeks of our setup. I don't want to high jack your thread. But you by far have one heck of a setup that most envy!



Your sheep are nice looking. Whenever I think of Dorper I think of the black headed short haired ones pictured here. 

[URL="http://www.neldorpers.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/05/DSC02663.jpg%5b/img"]http://www.neldorpers.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/05/DSC02663.jpg[/img[/URL]] 

I had a few of these Dorpers when I started out but I just prefer Suffolk much more. I Don't know why I just do. 

In the images you posted of your sheep the grass looks healthy for being taken just a month ago and doesnât look like a dry spell at all. Look at my images posted above in this thread during our dry spell or let me post an image later today of what it looks like here even after a few rain showers, then youâll understand dry desert like conditions :) 

Currently we have just over 200 ewes so in the next 6 - 7 months those should birth and we should double our number to 400 animals. I have contracted to purchase another 100 ewes from a breeder and should get those just after the first of the year (early 2017). Combined with what we have after this next birthing cycle and the additional 100 ewes that should give us a total of about 500 animals in early 2017. 

If half of the lambs from this next birth cycle (Nov-December 2016) are rams that will leave us with the original 200 ewes and approx 100 newborn ewes for a total of 300 Ewes. Then combined with the 100 Eweâs Iâm purchasing we will have approximately 400 Ewes that after a yearâs time can all birth. 

Therefore my projections (if correct) are that after the birthing cycle in late 2017 (if we have 400 healthy Ewes) my projection should be that by January 2018 we should have at least another 400 lambs giving us a total of 800 animals. 

This is the goal I am shooting for as well as in 2018 to purchase another 100 ewes from the same breeder so once again allowing my herd to multiply each year even if half my births are rams. 

Just this morning I was discussing this same topic with the guy who works for me managing the herd and we decided that we can grow the herd to 1,500 animals in just a few short years and therefore weâre going to do just that. 

Although our family owns a lot of acreage I have placed an offer on a 700 acre pasture land near here and if that sale goes through next year or so (itâs currently in probate court and isnât even listed but weâve made an offer to the family) then we will definitely expand our operation to more than 2,000 sheep. 

Regarding your hot dry weather, weâre having a harder dryer, hotter year this year too but thankfully we have gotten a few light rain showers in the past couple days. Nothing major but the rain is finally here to an extent. This dry spell is exactly why I purposely stocked up on hay and feed so that I never have to worry about feed during these times. 

Just yesterday a guy who owns about 300 sheep came to visit me and asked if I would sell him some of our hay. I had to turn him down because this year weâve gone through even more hay than we expected as the rains have come much later than expected and itâs been much dryer and hotter than normal and we have very little left ourselves. 

I felt bad for him but planning ahead is whatâs needed in anything. I feel even worse for his sheep as he never buys hay or gives his animals a balanced diet but this year itâs even worse because itâs been so hot and dry his sheep are now dying of starvation and only now is he feeling desperate but not desperate enough to buy bales of alfalfa or other âexpensiveâ feed. 

Our sheep though are well fed, fat, and healthy but it goes back to proper planning, feeding, and care which is actually not that difficult to do if you just plan ahead for everything. 

As for our operation, I appreciate the compliments but I consider it a very simple operation and nothing that anyone should be envious of. We all individually do what we can with the tools and infrastructure we have to work with and I am fortunate that local farmers here allow us to use some of the their land after they harvest so I donât have to use our sierra land to exercise our herd. 

I look forward to your thread and seeing your operation! I love pictures and seeing what others are doing and how they handle and manage their herds even if they are only 10 animals or up to 3,000+ animals. Pictures make a huge difference in these discussion boards where sharing ideas and information are the purpose of communicating.


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## Von Helman (May 16, 2012)

Here is the mad rush of the sheep returning inside the corral after spending the day in the pasture. They run because they know theyâre getting fresh water and the hay mixture with the alfalfa. 














As the sheep come inside the corral I have an âoverflowâ water station set up consisting of about 20 5 gallon buckets that we fill with water each day before their return. They are circled around a few blue 55 gallon plastic barrels that we use as emergency water storage in the event there is no power at our pumping station to run the well as weâre on a well for our water. 



This overflow water station is only used for the sheep after they return from a long hot day out in the pasture as they are often very thirsty and itâs difficult for them to all fit around the permanent water station which would cause a little pushing and shoving. This way there is enough space for them to at least spread out and get a drink. 










Here are the sheep all parked in front of either the feed troughs or the water tubs. 










You can see they are well fed and kind of fat for it still being so dry and barren out in the pasture. They are well cared for and well fed!


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## alabamagal (Jun 12, 2016)

@ Von

When it comes to giving out hay, sometimes you have to take care of your own first and truly that's what matters most. In most cases that is. 

I made a mistake on the land. We have about 200 acres total here and then if we get the other land deal, that of course will just increase our land.

We just started the flock on the Soybean hulls and I'll update you in a week to see how well or not everyone is doing with this new feeding.

I wanted to ask? How much grain/hay mixture are you feeding per day per ewe?

You've really done an amazing job and deserve a pat on the back. Do you have a working system that you purchased or did you build something? When things slow down I'll take pictures of everything and start a new thread.

One last thing&#8230; We are having 54 EWE lambs being trucked into us from Iowa to Alabama. This being on a 24ft gooseneck. The shipper is stating that he could stop every four hours and mist them lightly. Is this a bad idea? Also should we worry about anything considering it's a 11 hour 1 way drive. These ewes we are bringing in, are the cream of the crop! I'll take some pictures too. Gorgeous girls. White Dorpers do really well here in Alabama and originate from Africa, and do good in the heat. We don't care for the black headed droppers due to them being a tad aggressive and harder to handle.


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## Von Helman (May 16, 2012)

alabamagal said:


> @ Von
> 
> When it comes to giving out hay, sometimes you have to take care of your own first and truly that's what matters most. In most cases that is.


Well if we had a lot of extra hay left over I wouldn't have any issues sharing because its for the animals but as I said I'm not sure what we have will last until the end of the year either so its basically a common sense situation that if I give him our hay we won't have any and then it would be our animals who suffer. I wont do that because he failed to plan ahead. 



alabamagal said:


> I made a mistake on the land. We have about 200 acres total here and then if we get the other land deal, that of course will just increase our land.


I wish you luck on the land you want to purchase. I hold out little hope for the land I want to purchase because the probate situation is really messed up and that family is really fighting over everything. 



alabamagal said:


> We just started the flock on the Soybean hulls and I'll update you in a week to see how well or not everyone is doing with this new feeding.


I look forward to your thread and posting updates on this and everything. 




alabamagal said:


> I wanted to ask? How much grain/hay mixture are you feeding per day per ewe?


The hay mixture is a mixture of Bean Hay, Barley, & Alfalfa and as already posted its mixed evenly together when shredded. We simply empty large feed sack into the various feeds troughs and usually feed the sheep 6-7 of these large feed sacks both in the morning and evening for a total of about 14 sacks each day. 

As for the ewes that we have separated with new lambs we feed them the same hay mixture but then sprinkle the granulated special feed on top of the hay mixture. This all depends on how many ewes and lambs we have separated. 

On average using a 5 gallon bucket we will fill half the bucket with the feed when feeding 8-10 ewes and their lambs, or a full bucket for 18-20 ewes.

We do this twice a day (once in the morning and again in the late afternoon) as the granulated feed mixture with the molasses is very rich in nutrients and vitamins and goes a long way as well as being very heavy and filling. They never can get enough but the same can be said of me with junk food.  

During the lambing season we will often buy a truckload of this special premixed feed usually with a purchase of a minimum of 100 sacks of feed. pricey for sure but only the best for our animals and it shows in our Ewes and lambs. 

There is no profit in our sheep business as of yet but one day I hope there is. Either way I'm having fun with it as I go and the animals are well taken care of and thats whats important. 



alabamagal said:


> You've really done an amazing job and deserve a pat on the back. *Do you have a working system that you purchased or did you build something? *When things slow down I'll take pictures of everything and start a new thread.


Not sure I understand this question, do you mean did we purchase the sheep and set up or did we start from scratch and build it ourselves as we went along, or are you referring to something else? 



alabamagal said:


> One last thingâ¦ We are having 54 EWE lambs being trucked into us from Iowa to Alabama. This being on a 24ft gooseneck. The shipper is stating that he could stop every four hours and mist them lightly. Is this a bad idea? Also should we worry about anything considering it's a 11 hour 1 way drive. These ewes we are bringing in, are the cream of the crop! I'll take some pictures too. Gorgeous girls. White Dorpers do really well here in Alabama and originate from Africa, and do good in the heat. We don't care for the black headed droppers due to them being a tad aggressive and harder to handle.


I honestly do not have any first hand experience transporting sheep long distances, maybe someone else can chime in here and help you on this matter. All my sheep purchases have been no more than a 2 hour drive and any special purchase I just pay them to bring them to use and I never deal with any of the actual details. 

My only concern on such long distance purchases is if the sheep will acclimate to the new climate, region, weather changes, altitude etc... I'd hate to lose any that couldn't and be out all the money. If I were to buy the cream of the crop I'd ship in smaller numbers and test them to see how well they did before taking a chance on such large numbers and the chance they could die. But thats just me being cautious. 

Post what you learn and what you do and the results so we can all learn together.


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## alabamagal (Jun 12, 2016)

WOW! I had no idea that you fed them that many sacks on a daily basis. I guess you have to if you don't have actual grazing land.

What I was asking in one question, do you have a working pen? Did you build it or purchase one to work the sheep, example doing their drenching, trimming hoofs etc.?


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## Von Helman (May 16, 2012)

alabamagal said:


> WOW! I had no idea that you fed them that many sacks on a daily basis. I guess you have to if you don't have actual grazing land.
> 
> What I was asking in one question, do you have a working pen? Did you build it or purchase one to work the sheep, example doing their drenching, trimming hoofs etc.?



We have grazing land and lots of it but there's nothing on it.  Actually right now there is some spring grass coming in but its nothing like the grass you have in your images. I'll go out and take a few pictures today and post them later tonight to give you a better idea of our pasture situation and the grass we have. Keep in mind the rains have come late and its still a little barren out this way. Give it another couple of weeks and it will look really nice. 

As for the amount of hay mix we use being a lot; well Id say for 200 animals its nothing major. I mean if you had 200 large dogs how many sacks of dog food would you go through in a day? Also remember when the pasture is green we do cut back on the hay mixture to about half of what we're currently using.

As for the corral we currently use for the sheep, we've owned this corral for years and we use to use it for dairy cows but now we're using it for the sheep. The actual pens inside are just small pens and nothing special or designed for sheep or working them. We just make things work. We do not have a commercial set up here in this corral or anything close to it. This corral is as very basic and as "old style" as it gets. This is why I said our operation is very simple. 

Due to the rocky nature of our region and the daily exercise the sheep get we really don't have any issues with hoof trimming and never really need to do much in that regards. The rocks and hard ground do all the trimming for us and keep the hooves short and managed. 

Out side the corral up on a ridge near one of the pastures there's an old dipping pool that we use to do the dipping. I have a 2.5 acre lot that I am slowly building out to become our new sheep corral thats specifically designed for sheep which will have a new dipping pool and other things we currently lack. Next year I plan to start back on the construction there as this year I have so many other irons in the proverbial fire and projects I have to finish first that the new corral was placed on the back burner. 

I'll post pictures of that new corral later as well. I have some of the outer walls already constructed where I used 8" inch wide slip forms and then poured cement and rebar to construct the walls as we did in our current corral.


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## Von Helman (May 16, 2012)

Earlier in this thread I posted this image of our bean hay stack. 


Today I took a picture of the same hay stack and this is all we have left. Although it really goes along way when mixing Alfalfa and barley the reality of feeding 200 animals is clearly seen in just how much hay feed we use. 

Thankfully we get all our bean hay free so we can be very generous with it. 










As I mentioned we have a very simple operation here and when I say simple Iâm referring to the fact we donât have any fancy working equipment such as turn tables, chutes, or other such working gadgets. We do things the old fashion way around here and have been for so many years I guess weâre just accustom to our simple cheap methods. 

An example of this is that when we need to do some shearing, we simply do some shearing. We will shear a few sheep each day until the chore is finished. We simply pull a sheep out from the feed trough tie it up in the shade under the tree and hand shear it right there in the corral. No fancy or special equipment or location is needed, just a fast quick shear and back to eating they go. 



















Today we sheared 5 ewes. Yesterday we sheared five and over the next few days weâll do more. For us itâs easier to manage our herd this way as our worker does all the actual shearing work and he works at his pace doing a few each day. There really is no hurry getting them all done in the same day. Maybe later when we have 1000+ animals and weâre in our new corral set up weâll change how we approach this (and other) tasks but for now weâre good. 

As mentioned in my past post this morning our rugged rocky terrain keeps the sheepâs hooves all worn down so we donât have the same issues with our animals which others who have soft grassy fields do. I guess thatâs the trade off for having such rocky hard soil conditions. 

Here are two images of the hooves on two different sheep but they are similar to most of our sheep. Iâm no expert on hooves so I really donât know how to judge the condition of these hooves but I don't think they are long and hangnail like.



















Our littler German Sheppard mix is so tame she just crashes in the corral with the sheep and the little lambs find her to be so curious they are always going up to her and sniffing her and just checking her out. At times she will raise her head and begin to lick them in a motherly manner which confuses the lambs and they just sit there frozen contemplating whatâs happening or if its normal. It funny to see it replayed over and over again. 










Here is our worker filling the feed troughs with a feed sack full of hay mix. The only down side of this set up is all the sheep rush him and crowd around trying to get first dibs even after all the feed troughs are full. In our new corral I have a new design which will solve this problem. The other issue in this corral is when itâs raining it makes things very challenging. 










Our worker we pay a salary to and as part of his compensation he also earns his yearly âtipâ which is 7% of all our yearly births. So if we birth 100 lambs he gets 7 of them. We usually mix it up so half are rams and half are ewes but he can have what he wants. Under this agreement he does very well financially but he also has a much more vested interest in his job. He doesnât know what sheep he will end up as his tip so he cares for all of them as potentially his future animals. He also does all the medical injections, shearing, and pasturing of the sheep. For us itâs a great benefit to have him on our team because he basically does all the daily work which allows us to other things, and thus part of the reason I spend too much time on the internet.  

Here are a few images of the sheep out in the rugged pasture today. We pasture them in a track of land thatâs about 200 acres but as you can see there really isnât much grass and thus the reason we supplement their diet with the hay mix.


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## Von Helman (May 16, 2012)

Two more images out in the pasture today. (There's a 10 image limit to each post thus why I'm adding the last 2 images here)


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## Von Helman (May 16, 2012)

As mentioned before I have another piece of land which is approx 2.5 acres. I started some time ago constructing a new commercial sheep set-up here but put it on hold. I plan to resume work on it after the first of the year and hopefully within 2 years move our operation from our current corral to this much large location. 



Our current corral measures 130 feet X 65 feet. 


This new corral measures 500 feet X 330 feet


Here are a few images of the new corral as it stands unfinished today. 
This is looking down the long wall which is 8 foot tall. 












This is where the feed barn will be for our feed lot section where he will keep the ram lams weâre fattening up for sale. 












This is the rough footings for what will eventually be the guards office, the workers break room / kitchen, employees restrooms, and a small tool closet. 












All the new walls are all 8â thick solid cement with rebar and will all be at least 10 feet tall at their lowest point. He is a close up of one of the new walls 













Looking into one corner of the lot where the feed lot section will be












A few weeks ago I planted a row of trees in what will eventually be a fence line inside the corral dividing the various pens. Itâs my hope that when these trees grow they will one day provide shade for the sheep in the hot summer months. 













When I restart the construction work Iâll be sure to post updates and images. Our calculations indicate this new corral and the design will easily hold 2000+ sheep. I have an adjoining piece of property outside of the fenced cement walls that weâll use to put all the manure after we clean the pens each day. 


The good thing about this new corral is that its been designed with blue prints and will have some of the things we need such as a dipping pool, chutes, and lots of smaller holding pens, and three large barns.


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## feedbunns (Jul 6, 2013)

Thank you for posting. I have been raising Angora rabbits for their wool. Some people on this forum gave me some sheep wool. Now I am in love with sheep wool. I enjoyed seeing your sheep and set up. Thanks


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## Von Helman (May 16, 2012)

feedbunns said:


> Thank you for posting. I have been raising Angora rabbits for their wool. Some people on this forum gave me some sheep wool. Now I am in love with sheep wool. I enjoyed seeing your sheep and set up. Thanks



Thank you I appreciate the comments, questions, and the feed back! 

What do you do with the sheep wool?


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## alabamagal (Jun 12, 2016)

@Von - I am amazed at what you have done. It just goes to show that with hard work and dedication that anything is possible. Most, truly do not understand the time and effort you have placed, those that don't breed sheep that is&#8230; 

We had a failed attempt on building an 8ft creep feeder, built out of wood, problem we had was we made the gaps 7 inches and some young adult ewes were able to gain access. So back to the drawing board tomorrow.

We just had a new barn built that is 48x93 with 18ft sides. I'll be taking some pictures of this too on a new thread. 

We lost a ram lamb too  the mother just wasn't bagged up good with enough milk supply and this is her first time lambing. We don't have a creep feeder and we think if we had one prior to this that we could have saved this lamb. He was about 2 months old. Feeding a large number of ewes isn't a simple task and the lambs can't get in without being crushed and or pushed out. So, we are working tomorrow on the creep feeder. 
By chance do you have any pictures of your creep feeder? 


I did want to comment on something. You are right about 1 thing, most Shepherds do not want to diet with feed. But, it truly is a must for us. Grass is growing slow, no rain, no rain and without it the grass just doesn't grow.

We feed 2 pounds per EWE per day, 1 pound morning and 1 pound evening. How much per EWE are you feeding or an estimate? On your lambs that creep feed, is it open to feed at all time or do you time feed the lambs?

Have a happy 4th of July too and I can't wait to share pictures with you too! Our setup isn't as fancy as yours but we get the job done.


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## Von Helman (May 16, 2012)

Day before yesterday workers cleaned the corral of all the manure. Using an old tractor with a very primitive bucket attachment and three workers we (or actually they) loaded the trailer 4 times and made 4 trips of sheep manure to the farming fields. Two guys using shovels working from both sides of the trailer shoveled manure out onto the farm fields. This is used for natural fertilizer and helps the crops. The sheep manure is what we trade for our free bean hay. 



Thankfully we got the job done in one day as the next day (yesterday) it rained enough to mess up the corral.


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## Von Helman (May 16, 2012)

@ alabamagal 







> Our setup isn't as fancy as yours



LOL â¦. Yea right we have a fancy set up. All I have is a corral with four cement walks and a small pole barn on one side thatâs more of an awning than a barn. Our sheep drink from used plastic 55 gallon barrels that have been cut in half and are used as large water buckets. We have two pens to separate sheep and one pen we use to store the hay mix and feed. 



Therefore Iâm not sure what set up youâre referring to at this time thatâs so fancy.  



I tried to take pictures this morning of my feed operation and bucket size and amount etcâ¦ but I was using my iPhone and the pictures often times come out really dark for some reason. Tomorrow Iâll use my actual camera and take pictures which will be much better. 



In regards to our ewes, let me explain how we handle and feed them when they give birth. 



First all the sheep are kept together in our large pen inside the corral. When a ewe is pregnant we still take her to pasture each day unless there is an issue with her like she is so fat with possible twins itâs hard for her to walk and only then to we keep her back. I would say 60-70% or our births occur at night / early morning in the corral in a corner while the rest happen out in the pasture which isnât that bad. 



I find that even when pregnant and close to birthing that itâs much better that the mother is still pastured with the herd and out getting the needed exercise as it helps with her having an easier birth when she does finally give birth. Weâve discovered that keeping a mother ewe in a pen lying down or not active she tends to have much more difficult or complicated birth. The exercise and movement really help facilitate her lamb getting moved around and her body doing its natural thing. 



Once and ewe gives birth we separate her into a small pen which is about 20â X 20â and she will stay in there with other ewes who have also recently birthed. We keep them in this pen during the night and in the day when the other sheep are out to pasture we allow these mothers and their lambâs free rein in the large pen in the corral. This allows them to get a lot of space to move around and get sun. 



We use standard feed troughs and do not use any sort of creep feeder. These ewes are fed the hay mixture in the feed trough by emptying a sack of shredded hay mix and them we sprinkle the rich granulated feed mixture on top of the hay as I mentioned. I already posted the approximate mixture of the granulated feed mix we use for each ewe with a lamb. 



We will keep the mother and her lamb in this separate pen situation for about 2 weeks or until we determine the lamb is strong enough and big enough to go out in the pasture with its mother and the rest of the herd. At that time we simply allow them back into the herd and have never really had any issues. 



We cut (separate out) several sheep each day to give them additional feed (the rich granulated mix) even if they are still going to pasture with the herd and we determine this based on several factors all related to each individual animal and their needs as we see them. We also cut each morning our stud rams and feed them this same granulated mix. We want them to be strong and healthy too. 



When I arrive at the corral these sheep automatically know who they are that are being cut and line up next to the gate to get let out to the extra feed. When we decide to stop feeding a certain animal this extra feed we donât allow it out to eat. It takes 2-3 days for that particular sheep to understand itâs been cutoff and it will stop lining up at the gate. 



These sheep are actually very smart in these situations while being dumb most of the rest of time. 



Here are the sheep lined up at the gate ready to be let out for the extra feed. 














Using a small bucket (probably a one gallon bucket) of granulated feed which is spread over the hay in two separate feeding buckets we are feeding 9 sheep. 
















We use two small bottom portions of an old 55 gallon metal drum as a feeder for these cut sheep and we just add some hay mix and the rich feed on top. Nothing fancy at all. 



Our hay mix is rather nutrient rich with the barley and alfalfa and due to the fact we feed them very well with this hay mixture their base diet is good. We also provide them constantly with a mineral tub and Salt as well as pasture them daily even when the ground is barren so they have that regular base diet of nutrients and vitamins that keep them healthy along with the exercise they need to remain active, strong, and agile. 



Therefore when the ewes get pregnant they already have a good dietary foundation and only when they birth and are producing milk do we add the special rich granulated feed to help them with an extra dietary boost. 



As soon as the lambs are able to stick their heads into the feed trough they often find the rich sweet molasses feed mix and start to nibble on it and begin to eat it. Also since our hay is shredded so finely the lambs are able to start nibbling it at a much younger age and they love the alfalfa and start eating it too. Their primary diet is still their motherâs milk but they wean much easier / faster with the hay mixture we use since it has the alfalfa as is shredded so finely.


Here is a picture of one of the 2 week old lambs already in the feed trough nibbling the hay mixture and eating it. 














Here is another image showing a few other small lambs also engrossed in their diet of the hay mix. 
















As for losing sheep, thatâs just part of how things go and no rancher ever wants to lose an animal but weâve had several die for various reasons and the best you can hope for is that none die but reality dictates differently. This year Iâve had 14 sheep die from various reasons including still born baby lambs to illness and itâs sad but its life. 



Heck this morning I went to the corral and there was a baby ram lamb that was just shy of 2 months old that had just died as it wasnât even cold yet. It wasnât sick or bloated or anything and all we can surmise is that during the rain we had last night that when the sheep all packed inside the shelter of the pole barn that it got stuck between or under other sheep in position where it couldnât breathe. There were no other signs of anything else but weâre just mystified at what could have caused its death but weâll never know, nor can we change the fact it died. 


I took this picture yesterday as the sheep were pasturing on the land where Iâm building our new corral and the image looks very nice, but just two hours later we were in a nasty hail storm and heavy rain in the same location. So bad I didnât even think of taking pictures yet today the sky is just as nice and clear and itâs humid and muggy out today. 













Now let me ask you why is it taking you so long to post your thread and images? Get at it girl, Iâm curious to see your set up and to know how you guys are doing things.


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## alabamagal (Jun 12, 2016)

Thanks again for the fast response! You have one heck of a setup, regardless what you think. 

We plan to post pictures in about 1-2 weeks once things slow down for us. Time is a factor with my husbands' work and my work too. I'm usually not able to get to the computer much throughout the day, so by the time night rolls around, I'd rather not stay on here as long as it would take to write a book.  Though I have attached a photo of some of our fall ewe lambs that we are going to start breeding in the next few weeks.

My husband has been around sheep for over 21 years, but just started his first flock a little over 1 year ago. He had an amazing mentor over the years from an elderly gentleman that was from the UK that ran over 1,000 head of ewes in the states. My husband has dreamed for years to run a flock and now has made the direction to move forward.

I hated to hear of the loss of your ram lamb. When it comes down to it, it's the survival of the fittest, and sometimes unfortunate events just happen. Prior to our barn being built, we were lambing in the dead of winter with heavy rains, and we lost several lambs. The babies are precious and vulnerable. Nothing like hardy cattle which can handle more extreme weather without incident. 

I think we can help one another, bouncing ideas and concepts, which helps everyone, and again, thank you for your postings!


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## Von Helman (May 16, 2012)

Regarding our set up, thank you for the kind words. I was always taught the âMore & Lessâ rule of life, which is, there will always be someone with less and someone with more than you (whatever it might be; money, looks, possessions, skills, smarts, etc..) and I just try try to be humble with what Iâve been blessed with and share and help others when I can. 



Being located out in such a very rural area as we are and having workers doing most of the actual work I tend to have a much more relaxed schedule which permits me to spend way too much time on the internet, as well as allowing me to take an occasional afternoon nap. The only down side of such rural living is our internet connection as weâre still on dial so it can take a VERY long time to load or see images and I cannot watch any videos on YouTube. Chalk it up certain trade offs of rural living but on the flip side the benefits are we donât have traffic jams, crowds of people, or rows of fast food joints so thatâs nice. Ok maybe we could use a fast food joint or two..  



Your ewes are very beautiful and I look forward to your thread and the pictures it will contain. Iâve been around sheep for many years but never really got serious with owning my own herd until just a few years ago and even then it was just an idea to buy a few to see where it went. Now I'm deep into the planning and calculating and trying to move forward to a large herd size and to make it into a more commercial type of operation. I wonder what the definition of commercial sheep operation is, as in is there a number that differentiates between a small rancher and a commercial operation like over 500 is commercial etc.. 



There are several ranchers in this region who own over 1000 sheep and while thatâs a large number of sheep itâs rather common around here for people to have 400- 500 or so animals and up. Therefore Iâm about close to the middle range in terms of herd size. Again it goes back to the âMore & Lessâ rule of life. 


We do not have an enclosed barn that we use for the sheep but here in this region and climate there really are no harsh winters or extreme weather that causes there to be such a need. An open sided (or at least on one side) pole barn is just fine and weâre fortunate for that. Again each personâs geographical location dictates different necessities on everything from shelter to feed etc.. 


I also agree regarding helping others with information and images. I wish more people would post threads showing their herds and operation if for no other reason we can see, learn, ask questions, and exchange ideas and more information. There are sheep ranchers who have such totally different set ups and locations that I would be lost if I had to work there with them (or a sharp learning curve) but I still like to see and learn. An example is I have never had to do trim or file the hooves on our sheep and therefore I have no firsthand experience in doing that or even what to do. Iâm assuming itâs like anything that once you have a general idea then itâs easy (if the sheep cooperate) but its those little tricks of the trade that get passed down that help us but nobody has passed down that particular trick of the trade since we never have to tend to the hooves. 



Anyone else reading this thread I encourage you to post a thread of your own and share with us a little about your operation and set up. Thanks!


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## alabamagal (Jun 12, 2016)

Good evening Von&#8230; One thing that my husband has mentioned to me multiple times is that the sheep industry just isn't the same as it is overseas. It's all about cattle here, but he feels that within the next 4-5 years, sheep will become more desirable to Americans.

At one time we were running 1,000+ head of cattle and business was good, then the bottom dropped to 15 cent and 27 cent a pound. We no longer have cattle and this was of course a couple decades ago, back in the 90's. At one time my grandfather ran a few hundred head of cattle, though with his age nearing 90 years young, he is now down to about a 150 head. He has sold a few hundred head in the past few years while cattle was high.

My husband believes sheep, sheep, sheep are going to be the next big boom here in the USA. One of the main problems I'm finding is information sharing when it comes to Shepherds here in the United States. If we all worked together, it would help educate, bringing positive lambing results, turning a profit, and this is what we all want in the end results!

He tasted lamb for the very first time a couple months back, and he loves it! Even though it was not cooked to the preferred temperature (it was well  , he truly loved the taste. I think I'll enjoy it more medium rare and seasoned a bit better, as I already eat my steaks very rare. 

Our barn that was just built is a pole barn (see pic of mid-construction) and man do we have a problem with flies. We use fly traps, but it just isn't doing the job. @Von - Do you have issues with flies and a fix to help keep them down, or do they tend to stay more within the area in which you pile the manure?

One other thing that I'll share more with you when I post our thread is that we use digital tags which allows us to scan the ewes/rambs/lambs. It shoots their details to our ipad/macbook, such as weight, medical records, birthing and much more. If you look closely in the last photo you'll notice multiple tags.


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## Von Helman (May 16, 2012)

I agree with your husband on the sheep industry in the USA growing, especially in the southwest USA (and all across the country) where there continues to be an ever increasing Latino population as they are often big sheep consumers. 



Sheep are also much easier to manage and care for than cattle. Our family here also runs cattle (500+ head) but I have nothing to do with the cattle other than to always argue over why I think sheep are better. 



Iâm not sure that sheep will be a huge boom per say but I think they will consistently continue to rise in value and interest and there will soon be a much larger infrastructure in place for selling and processing the meats and byproducts. 



As for shepherds, well thatâs a tough one and part of the reason many sheep ranchers stay small or design their operation so they do not have to depend on a Shepherd. One suggestion is to look at Mexican immigrants who have arrived from rural areas of Mexico because usually they know someone or have experience with animals and sheep. 



Youâre more readily able to find a hard working Hispanic in that regard than say an experienced American simply because sheep ranching isnât as popular in the USA. If your ranch is set up as an actual business with a tax ID number etc.. you can also work on applying for a workers visa for a Shepherd and bring him up from Mexico or South America to work several months of the year when the season permits and he can return home when there is less of a need or for a month or two for vacation and still do really well in regards to salary. 



As for flies, well only after the rains have arrived do we ever really have a lot of flies but we donât really have an issue with flies with the sheep. Our pigs, yes and thereâs no solution to that at all. When we had our dairy cattle in the same corral those too were prone to flies. (Another reason I like sheep) As for the fly strips, well around our pig pen we could put up a fly strip and it would be full before I could take another one out of its package and hang it. A losing battle if there ever was one. 


Iâd really like to learn more about digital tags, where you bough yours, and how well they stay on etc.. I bought some smaller ear tags for our sheep and almost everyone of them have eventually broken off when the sheep stick their head in the feed trough. Funny issues is we have one sheep who has a huge cattle tag on one ear, so much so that it causes her head to tilt to one side and whatâs funny is that ---- tag hasnât fallen off, gotten caught up on anything or even looks like itâs going to be an issue. 



We think itâs the design of the smaller tags that cause them to get hung up and therefore we will not use those types of ear tags again. It goes back to trial and error and weâre trying several types. 



I like the pole barn and Iâm sure youâll get a lot of good use out of it. Last week I got a quote for one of the three barns on our new corral and itâs going to be over 50 grand and itâs not even the big barn. Ouch! 



I'm going with a dome type structure (round top) and the cost is all the metal thats used and the galvanized roof.


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## farmerDale (Jan 8, 2011)

I enjoy these posts with all the pics very much. It is very interesting seeing how things are done elsewhere, and interesting how the landscape plays into how you raise animals.

I have lots of questions about how and why you do things, but I do not want to come across wrong. It is so different up here, who am I to question your practices? lol You do what you need to do, hey? 

Keep this thread going!


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## Von Helman (May 16, 2012)

farmerDale said:


> I enjoy these posts with all the pics very much. It is very interesting seeing how things are done elsewhere, and interesting how the landscape plays into how you raise animals.
> 
> I have lots of questions about how and why you do things, but I do not want to come across wrong. It is so different up here, who am I to question your practices? lol You do what you need to do, hey?
> 
> Keep this thread going!



I don't think there is a right or wrong way of doing things when it comes to raising / caring for sheep but I have learned that things get done very differently in different regions and as you mentioned how landscape (and climate) play a huge role on how things are done. 

Animals need 4 basic things to survive; Water, feed, medicine (care) and protection (shelter and protection from predators). How people go about providing those 4 things will always vary. 


For one we don't have harsh winters here like you do up there. I can be wearing shorts on Christmas Day while you're probably buried in 10 feet of snow. This also affects the care of the sheep especially when they are birthing during the winter months. 

Our sheep also can handle extreme heat better than a herd that are acclimated to more northern climates. We also have to take into account this extreme heat and when we pasture our sheep during those hot summer months and we make sure to take them near the creek regularly during the day so they can get plenty of water. In really hot days they don't seem to ever get enough water but when the sun sets and they are in the shade of the corral they are rather full and comfortable. 

I am left stumped when I see other peoples images of lush green grass growing a foot tall (we never have that) or their set up, barns, pens and stuff and I just chalk it up to how everyone does things differently based on what they have to work with. We're blessed with enormous wide open acreage here but due to the semi arid conditions combined with other factors its does not amount to hardy pasture land. Its rather under par but it gets the job done. 

We're also blessed in the fact our family and extended family farms beans and therefore we have an almost endless supply of free bean hay. This is our saving grace because this free bean hay mixed with alfalfa and barley really goes a long way. Many people including you do not have that advantage, but you might have other advantages I do not have so it all goes back to working with what you have. 


As for the questions of how and why we do things the way we do, the simple answer on any such question would be is, "that's how we've done it for so many years", and the fact we probably don't know another way.  

Seriously if you have a valid question I'll do my best to answer it but keep in mind our landscape and climate dictate a lot in the general practices here. So fire away with the questions! 

I'd really like and enjoy seeing you post a thread on your operation and how you do things. It would be fascinating to see it and would allow me and others to learn new things.


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## Von Helman (May 16, 2012)

@ alabamagal 



Here are the images I promised you. 


Again when we arrive the sheep that get feed extra are lined up and ready to be let out to eat. Using the bottom portion of a 55-gallon drum as a feeder we add the hay mixture first. Then using a small bucket which is about a gallon and half we fill it with the special rich granulated feed which we then sprinkle that on top of the hay. The sheep come out and feast on this and when they are all finished along with the other sheep in the corral that are just eating the hay mix we then let them all out to pasture for the day. 



We currently have only 9 sheep that weâre feeding this special mix to, and 3 of these are ram lambs. We do not have any mothers ewes at this time that need this mix as the young lambs are all healthy and eating a good diet of the mixed hay and minerals. When we have a bunch of ewes that have given birth we do this same feeding with them but keep them in one of the pens. Weâve had up to 20 ewes at a time in the pen / with this diet. 


Here is the drum with just the hay mix,










Here is the bucket size I'm using with these sheep. 










I fill the bucket and then sprinkle it over the hay mix. Using one bucket this size for each feeder drum (In this case 2 drums and 2 small buckets) 










This is what it looks like after the granulated feed is sprinkled on the hay mixture. 










And the sheep eating it. These are the 9 animals we are cutting every morning to give this extra feed to.


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## farmerDale (Jan 8, 2011)

Von Helman said:


> For one we don't have harsh winters here like you do up there. I can be wearing shorts on Christmas Day while you're probably buried in 10 feet of snow. This also affects the care of the sheep especially when they are birthing during the winter months.
> 
> I wear shorts when most don't. lol You got it right. We need 200 days of put up feed for winter to be safe.
> 
> ...


I should do just that! I am not a good picture taker, but I should get out there and do some. We are on our 4th year of raising sheep, and are really enjoying it. We now have about 100 head, and next year should be up to about 80 ewes lambing, with a goal of several hundred or so. Grain farming has not been kind, we are always so wet and so crops suffer, but grass and hay does not. We are focusing more on the sheep business to alleviate and supplement the grain side. Our flock is at the point now where rapid growth is imminent! Not bad for starting with 7 ewes and growing from within.


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## Von Helman (May 16, 2012)

@Farmerdale 



Thanks for the post, let me respond to the various points you mention. We also have an abundance of grazing areas we can tap into close to the house / corral even though I donât legally own the land; we are allowed to use it for our sheep to graze. Itâs not great pasture land but it does get us by. We do own a lot of land in our sierra but Iâve already mentioned the downside of pasturing the sheep there from experience so I chose to do it another way and here close to the house. 



Regarding the workers and the manure, I didnât hire them per say; two of them are brothers and those two brothers are actually our cousins. The third guy works for them. Itâs their (The cousins) tractor and the two brothers work together working their farming fields which is about 300 acres. The third guy is their farm hand. 



When they come to pick up the manure they do it because we are giving it to them free and there is no cost on my end for them to pick it up. 

(Meaning I am not paying them to do the actual work) If they chose to do their work in a very labor intensive manner then thatâs on them but they are here because they benefit from the free manure which they use for fertilizer in their farming fields. This manure is much cheaper than commercial fertilizer and they are into the natural organic work and not all the chemicals. I agree with your observation on how they do their jobs and needing better equipment but again since I am not paying for the labor, if they want to work twice as hard thatâs on them. 



I plan to buy a small backhoe for our new corral once there but since I get these workers working for free I donât see the need at this time to invest in such equipment. Heck I donât even actually own a tractor myself because here on our ranch although we have many tractors, they belong to the family operation and therefore if I need one I just pay the fuel and the person driving it and we get the job done sharing in that way. 



Also the corral I am currently using for our sheep is not actually my property. I just use it for the time being until my own corral gets finished. My personal corral which I do own is the 2.5 acre lot pictured above in this thread and where I will move everything once itâs finished. Once there, I will do things a little differently. Using this current corral (which is owned by another family member) has allowed me to get an idea of whatâs needed and ways to improve on how things are done. There are a few things I do not like about the current corral set up but I donât want to invest any money on any improvements since this corral /land doesnât belong to me. 





For example one of the things I have learned is the watering system for the sheep. Through observations and experience I have discovered I do not like the current watering system we use as it is labor intensive and therefore I want to change it. However it goes back to not wanting to invest in a system that I cannot take with me when I move. 



Here are the blue tubs we use for water with our sheep and we use a water hose to fill them and clean them. The problem we have is keeping these water tubs clean. Either they get filled with hay particles as the sheep drink, or dirt and junk from the winds we get here, and in the heat the algi grows in them like mad and then the water will turn green and nasty. So the labor intensive part comes with having to regularly empty them out and then we have to take a scouring pad and a little liquid soap and clean them. This is not a fun chore. 














I know several people who installed fixed water systems with a floater as pictured here below but you can see how when it gets dirty and green itâs very difficult to clean because the entire thing is fixed in place. Hard to empty and clean 













So one idea Iâve been contemplating is installing these small green watering stations in the various pens. These will not work for large numbers of thirsty sheep returning from a hot day out in the pasture and so weâll still need to use a large watering system but for the actual pens and animals that are not drinking a lot I think these might work out well. I have purchased several of them and will eventually install them in my new corral along with other improvements Iâm considering. 














Since these donât hold a great deal of water they look easy to keep clean by simply using a rag to wipe them out. Using their nose the sheep will automatically push against the black portion of the tube and it will release the water to fill it. Iâll eventually give these things a try and see how they work but I donât want to spend a lot of time and money installing a pressurized system in this current corral. 

In regards to your grain operation, yes I understand how hard it is to farm as we have the same issues here but in reverse, not enough rain and sometimes we do get too much rain. Some years itâs a bust while other years when the crops are abundant the brokers pay pennies on the dollar and itâs the same as drought in terms of money. You never can seem to get ahead. 


Sheep (or any animals) really do help balance things out, and as you said you get to a point in your herd size where you can really start to see the rapid growth and the financial advantages of having the animals. Say you need a thousand dollars, you just sell 10-12 sheep and when you have 200+ sheep you hardly notice the 10-12 sheep you sold. Itâs better than money in the bank as the sheep are producing and generating a lot more money for you when they reproduce than say interest in a savings account. Plus you have the sheep in your possession at all times unlike a bank that could close and go under. 


I also agree itâs not bad what you have from starting with 7 ewes and look at where you are today! I really look forward to your thread and pictures! 


If you have more questions or comments on how or why we do things a certain way please ask and Iâll be happy to respond.


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## alabamagal (Jun 12, 2016)

@Von - My husband is home this weekend and we intend to take some pictures of our working system, along with a few other things, time permitting of course. The heat is unbelievable here and next week we have another flock coming in from Iowa and it's a good 12 hour drive. The drive will be at night to reduce the risk of loss of life to the fall ewe lambs. My husband would love to be back in Texas, which is where he was born and raised. If he was your neighbor you two could talk sheep till you were both blue in the face. 

On another note, I posted a poem on another thread in regards to last nights events but I don't have privileges I guess for it to be posted public? It's a poem that's all! If it could get posted it would be very much appreciated!


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## aleefarms (Jul 23, 2014)

@Von I have found diatomaceous earth one of the most versatile aids in killing unwanted pest you can have around the farm. The uses are too numerous to mention but killing algae in drinking water is a time save. You have to make sure it is food grade but is completely safe. I apply it to sheep and the barn and coop to prevent flies.


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## Von Helman (May 16, 2012)

alabamagal said:


> @Von - My husband is home this weekend and we intend to take some pictures of our working system, along with a few other things, time permitting of course. The heat is unbelievable here and next week we have another flock coming in from Iowa and it's a good 12 hour drive. The drive will be at night to reduce the risk of loss of life to the fall ewe lambs. My husband would love to be back in Texas, which is where he was born and raised. If he was your neighbor you two could talk sheep till you were both blue in the face.
> 
> On another note, I posted a poem on another thread in regards to last nights events but I don't have privileges I guess for it to be posted public? It's a poem that's all! If it could get posted it would be very much appreciated!



Not sure you're employment situation but you saying your husband works out of town or is away for periods of time must make caring for your animals much more challenging, and for that I feel for you. Tending to animals really is an "all hands on deck" type of operation 24/7 especially when you have 150+ animals. 

As for your husband wanting to be back in Texas well if thats what he really wants to happen then he needs to make it happen. There's no sense in going through life if you're not happy when you can make the changes necessary to be happy. 

I laughed when you said if we were neighbors your husband and I could take sheep until we were blue in the face. I though we could talk at least until the cows came home, urrr I mean until the sheep came home. 

Again I look forward to your thread and the images of your operation and the status of your new shipment of sheep and all the details. Good luck on the shipment and I'm praying everything is successful.


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## Von Helman (May 16, 2012)

aleefarms said:


> @Von I have found diatomaceous earth one of the most versatile aids in killing unwanted pest you can have around the farm. The uses are too numerous to mention but killing algae in drinking water is a time save. You have to make sure it is food grade but is completely safe. I apply it to sheep and the barn and coop to prevent flies.



Yes I've read up on it but never used it. Maybe I'll have to try it. Thanks for reminding me of it.


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## alabamagal (Jun 12, 2016)

_Not sure you're employment situation but you saying your husband works out of town or is away for periods of time must make caring for your animals much more challenging, and for that I feel for you. Tending to animals really is an "all hands on deck" type of operation 24/7 especially when you have 150+ animals. 
_

When it comes to work, we have grandchildren and we have a two year old, believe it or not.  I'm a home maker and it is a full-time job, did I say full-time job. 

_As for your husband wanting to be back in Texas well if thats what he really wants to happen then he needs to make it happen. There's no sense in going through life if you're not happy when you can make the changes necessary to be happy. 
_ 

We can't just pack up and move the land to Texas from Alabama. I wish we could, but you are right and who knows.  I know my husband is torn between home and here. All my family is here and his in Texas. Don't get me wrong he loves it here too. 

_I laughed when you said if we were neighbors your husband and I could take sheep until we were blue in the face. I though we could talk at least until the cows came home, urrr I mean until the sheep came home. 
_

Yes, my husband would talk your head off about sheep. Considering we have no one around this area that breeds sheep.

_Again I look forward to your thread and the images of your operation and the status of your new shipment of sheep and all the details. Good luck on the shipment and I'm praying everything is successful._

Sheep are coming from Iowa and will arrive this Thursday early in the morning, sheep are being shipped at night for the sake of the heat.

We have taken many photos over the weekend and plan to post soon. Sorry for the short post.


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## alabamagal (Jun 12, 2016)

Hey Von you still sheeping


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## Von Helman (May 16, 2012)

alabamagal said:


> Hey Von you still sheeping



Yes of course I am, 

BTW Did you get your delivery of sheep today from Iowa? 

We're all still waiting for you to post your thread and post pictures of your herd and operation. I'll post in your thread once its up.


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## alabamagal (Jun 12, 2016)

Hi Von - We have been over whelmed and just now getting caught up. The other flock is to arrive tomorrow morning. Picked up this afternoon @5pm. It will be a 15 hour trip due to stops. My husband took a few pictures of our working system. We drenched the entire flock this afternoon and it took a few hours. I am pooped. Take a look at the pictures. I promise we will take better pictures very soon. We had a couple things come up with the grandparents not doing good.

The flock coming home in the morning, picture taking while loading on the trailer, just a few of many arriving in the am.

And a couple fast shots taken of our working equipment. I'll get better pictures soon on our thread that we start. Any type-O's I apologize. I'm exhausted and have to be up at 5:00 am to move sheep panels with hubby. Long day tomorrow and we are excited! Can't wait to get them home.


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## alabamagal (Jun 12, 2016)

@Von, you still around? We have a ton of pictures to post on a new thread. Finishing up on a few things. We are behind on posting but wanted to see how you are doing and the sheep?


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## Von Helman (May 16, 2012)

alabamagal said:


> @Von, you still around? We have a ton of pictures to post on a new thread. Finishing up on a few things. We are behind on posting but wanted to see how you are doing and the sheep?



Yes I'm still around 

I received your private message and tried to respond but your PM mail box was full so it wouldn't accept my message. 

It's been a few weeks since you said you'd post your thread with all the pictures and we're all still waiting for you to do so.:grumble: 

Please post your new thread and all the pictures you've taken so we can respond. I've been waiting to respond there, so get to it girl or we'll think you're pulling our leg.


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## alabamagal (Jun 12, 2016)

@ Von, Had a bad night 2 nights ago. We were cleaning the barn and locked the dogs up and didn't unlock them out. That night a coyote(s) came on our land somehow through the electric fence killed a few ewe lambs about 6 months of age. My husband stayed up all night to watch the paddock and hoping it would come back. Night Vision and a Scar 16 and it's lights out. We also have a Llama coming tomorrow as a backup guardian. It just sucks. 

The Ewe Lamb pictured died of trauma.

We have a ton of pictures and trying to do our best to get a new thread kicking but it has been one thing after another.

Question for you? Our new pole barn due to the texture of the land it has water that comes in. Husband is going to put in a french drain around the barn. What do you do to keep your barn warm and cozy?

Have you ever had a Llama?


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## Von Helman (May 16, 2012)

Thanks for the update alabamagal and I'm sorry to hear of your loss. We lost a small ram lamb 2 days ago due to an unknown illness. It was sick for about 2 weeks and separated from the herd and given special feed and med's but strangely continued to slowly bloat the last day it was alive and the next morning there it lay dead and bloated larger than the Goodyear blimp. 

A loss like yours is hard to deal with but I know a guy near us who lost over 80 sheep about 4 months ago all in one night so when I lose a few sheep I always think of him and another rancher who had over 100 sheep stolen in the middle of the night. While situations like yours suck I always try to look at the larger picture and still remain thankful for what could have been. 


Not being able to see your set up (via pictures) I cannot give any suggestions on how better to protect your sheep. I'd look into at least investing in a more secure corral / fencing around the barn. Like a safe zone where the sheep are kept at night and where the dogs can easily protect it and predators have a hard time getting in. This is one reason our corrals are built using slip forms and cement walls that are 8 feet tall and even then we think they need to be taller. 



> What do you do to keep your barn warm and cozy?


Nothing!  Our barn is open on one side so there is no keeping it warm but then again we don't have harsh winters and when its cold the animals do fine. Keeping it dry is another issues and depending on which way the rain and wind are blowing determine a lot. All our items though stay dry due to where we keep them stacked. 

My suggestion is to start your thread and post pictures of your barn and the solutions you're working on to keep the water out, maybe others can chime in. 




> Have you ever had a Llama?


 Nope, never had one.


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## Von Helman (May 16, 2012)

Took this picture day before yesterday. In this image you can see the barren ground with a little grass growing. This is actually a 200 acre farming field that is not getting planted this year so hopefully with the grass and weeds that will grow we can use it for pasture land and maybe by next year it will have a lot more grass. 

Also notice how spread out the sheep are. They appear to be dots on the horizon and no fencing around. This is why I asked about how llamas do in the open fields. I'll try to follow up in a few weeks with a picture in the same location to see how improved the grass is now that we've started having regular rain. 












Here below is the type of dome we will construct on our land and use as our barns. We will add cement walls that are about 14 feet high and then siding up to the actual roof where this first dome pictured is simply an open dome. 










Our cousin actually fabricates these domes so when there is a low in the farming work next year he will start on our smallest barn first. 

The last two images are another dome barn / storage building and will be along the lines of what I'm constructing for our large building. Meaning enclosed. I apologize for the poor image quality as my iPhone doesn't take very good pictures but it gives you and idea of the size and what you can keep inside.


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## elkhound (May 30, 2006)

von helman i thought the aliens took you away...lol...sure glad to see you posting.


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## Von Helman (May 16, 2012)

elkhound said:


> von helman i thought the aliens took you away...lol...sure glad to see you posting.



Yea It's been a few years since we last really talked, what 5 years now? ---- wow how time passes. Hard to believe you've been on this site for 10 years now. 

We both have no life!


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## Von Helman (May 16, 2012)

I had purchased 10 good quality ewes not very long ago for breeding them. They were very good stock and I was happy with the purchase. 

Yesterday I got a call from our worker who pastures our sheep out in the open fields and he informed my that one of these nice new ewes had been bitten by a rattlesnake and was dying. I arrived within 30 minutes and she was taking her last breath. 

We've had regular rain out this way for the past week or so and when it rains the snakes come out of the woodwork. We have a lot of rattlesnakes out this way and its a danger if you're not careful. 

What a sad way for her to die and even if it was painful at least it was rather quick. 

Anyone ever have issues with sheep getting bitten by rattle snakes?


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## alabamagal (Jun 12, 2016)

@Von - I hate to hear that, did you just have 1 bitten or others too? That really sucks! Do you mind me asking what type of sheep are they?

Super nice barn pictures that cost a fortune I'm sure.


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## Von Helman (May 16, 2012)

alabamagal said:


> @Von - I hate to hear that, did you just have 1 bitten or others too? That really sucks! Do you mind me asking what type of sheep are they?
> 
> Super nice barn pictures that cost a fortune I'm sure.



These were Suffolk sheep and thankfully for now itâs only the one ewe that died but until the rainy season is over itâs still very likely there will be others. This happens every year out here so weâre use to it, but it doesnât change the fact that it still sucks for us and the ewes. 



Whatâs the old saying, âIf it wasnât for bad luck, we wouldnât have any luck at allâ! 



If the dead ewe wasnât enough, yesterday we had a huge rain and hail storm come through dumping record amounts of rainfall and hail. Over 1000 acres of crops were completely wiped out. The hail totally destroyed the bean crops in these fields and then the heavy water carried everything away. 



The flood waters were so bad it flooded the rural highway in several placed making it impassible for motorists. I was stuck in this mess for about 2 hours yesterday evening. 

Needless to say our corral looks like a huge toilet with ankle deep endless mushy mess so bad you have to wear barn boots. The sheep are all drenched and dirty and the pasture grass is all wet. Along with the snakes that are coming to the surface now with all the new rain this is turning out to be a very challenging week. 













The brown in the image on both sides is all the water in the crop fields and there I was in the middle of the road stuck in the rushing water. 














Here another stretch of the road is simply impassible due to the amount of water and again there is water all over the place. 














What looks like water in this image below is actually ice / hail and it just destroyed the bean plants ripping the leaves completely off and leaving nothing but the stems.
















As for the large barns they cost about $150,000.00 Dollars for the large one pictured.


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## Von Helman (May 16, 2012)

Took these wet pictures this morning. We've had a week of non-stop rain and as posted above, Friday afternoon we had massive downpours and flooding. 

Its still nasty out and it's been misting all morning.

Even with the shelter of the pole barn the sheep are all still soaking wet. 











There will always be those sheep who regardless of the weather will stand out in the rain and mud. 










We tried to clean the corral yesterday and again this morning under the sheltered area and have tried to keep it as dry as possible but its simple a losing battle with all this constant rain and the sheep being soaking wet. 

The forecast calls for overcast skies and rain all week therefore all we can hope for is that they're wrong.


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## alabamagal (Jun 12, 2016)

Von - Wow how horrible! 

That's some real bad luck and what a mess you've been through over the past week. It's one thing after the other isn't it? 

The crops too and what a total loss. Do you have crop insurance? It's always somethingâ¦ Hang your head up high and know things will get better. When you are down there is only one way to go, and that is up!

_On a good note - _my husband really admires your setup and loves your walls. The sheep can rest at ease at night without having to worry about predators.


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## Von Helman (May 16, 2012)

alabamagal said:


> Von - Wow how horrible!
> 
> That's some real bad luck and what a mess you've been through over the past week. It's one thing after the other isn't it?
> 
> ...


 Well all the farmers around here will take a huge hit this year with the crops due to all this unpredictable weather but so goes farming anywhere. Weâve been through rough years before and weâll survive and come though this too. 

The rainfall this past 3 weeks has been record setting and I donât have to tell you how nasty it is to work in such muddy messy wet conditions. Thatâs never fun anywhere! 

In regards to the walls, they are simple slip forms and due to the fact we have several creek beds with lots of free sand and gravel we have the advantage of lower cost construction of these cement walls. Not saying theyâre not expensive to construct but they are made much cheaper when you get the sand and gravel free and have all the equipment and slip forms to do the work. I also own a cement mixer, and all the tools and other things needed such as the water tank, trailer, etc. 

What I like about the cement slip form walls is that animals cannot burrow under the walls or force their way through. Of course the higher the wall the less threat from any animal that can jump over it. 

I have lots of pictures of when we poured the walls and how we did it. Let me see if I can dig those up and get a few posted for you guys to see. 

Not all is bad though, today the sky cleared enough for me to finally get a project finished that Iâve put off for a couple of years. That project is having a communications antenna installed so I can get both better internet service as well as use the antenna to set up a two way radio communications system for our ranch. 

Later Iâll post images of the antenna as well.


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## alabamagal (Jun 12, 2016)

We've had some bad weather here too. Power was out for the entire night. Farmers that surround us have had horrible success, crops burning up from no rain and crops flooding out from too much rain.

The barns you showed that cost $150,000 are super nice! I'll say a prayer for you that the other ewes are going to be safe and sound from the rattles. We have them here too!


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## Von Helman (May 16, 2012)

During the dry season I had started constructing the slip form walls where my new 2.5 acre corral is going. These are older images but show the process of the build. 

First I laid everything out via blue prints (Auto Cad) and then went to the land, drew out the lines using a pick and got started. 










This image is where we stared making the long trenches for the footer of the cement walls. 










Then using a bed of rocks we started laying out the footer foundation by adding layers of cement and rock



















Then we added the vertical metal framing for the rebar which we evenly spaced










Then once the metal frames were in place we filled in those areas with cement. Once we had one continuous line of even cement we added the slip forms on top. 











On the first row of slip forms we added 4" PVC tubes inside which once finished will act as drain outlets for water. 










More to come as I can only add so many links in each post..


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## Von Helman (May 16, 2012)

Forgot to mention before we assemble the slip forms we paint them with used motor oil so the cement wont stick to them. 











Once the slip forms are in place and secured with the bolts and nuts and tightened then they are filled with cement which is poured inside. 





















Once the cement drys we remove the slip forms










We then move the slip forms up repeating the process as tall as we want the wall. 



















We run rebar length wise down the slip forms to help make them stronger. 










This is what the drain hole looks like after the slip forms are removed. 










More to come


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## Von Helman (May 16, 2012)

I also dug a large hole in the ground for one of those large plastic water tanks. This will be one of several water tanks /cisterns for holding water. We plan to have at least 10,000 gallons of potable water on hand at any given time. 












Part of the reason for so much water is I had researched growing my own feed fodder and was planing to install a large green house for growing barley. 









































I was planning to house the entire greenhouse in a large structure like this but with the first floor an open area where the sheep corrals would be housed. Thus serving as both shelter of the sheep but a space saving area. 

Several years back a cousin who does a lot of our fabricating out here on the ranch actually built a system like this where we tried growing the barely and grain fodder. The issues were many and we discovered what was needed by what didn't work. Basically our entire system didn't work as it was such a water hog due to water waste and water was everywhere. 

I then researched other totally enclosed systems using stainless steel and galvanized trays that wont rust. After crunching numbers and researching a lot of options combined with the prior firsthand experience with our own very shoddy homemade system I decided if I do it I'll just buy a nice complete system that gets properly installed.


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