# can you help me with this vaccine question?



## nodak3 (Feb 5, 2003)

I am trying to understand the pov of a subset of folks that are vaccine resistent for the covid vaccinations.

I know some folks have issues because they do not believe there is a pandemic. Some have general resistance to vaccines. Some are having issues related to their faith. I may disagree with those folks but I do understand their pov and their logic.

I am talking about some other folks I have run across. These folks were ardent supporters of Trump and Operation Warp Speed. They openly felt if a vaccine or vaccines were developed they should be known as the Trump Vaccine, collectively. And they thought if vaccines developed under his term of office did bring a speedy end to the pandemic it would make him arguably among the top two or three presidents. Prior to the election they were talking up vaccines to everybody, and swearing they would be at the front of the line to get one.

Then came the election. Trump is no longer president. And now they are adamant that they will NEVER get a vax. But what puzzles me is that these vaccines were developed under Trump and roll out of at least some started WHILE he was in office. So no matter who is president now, if the vaccine were to end the pandemic and restore normalcy to the world Trump would still get the credit for it being accomplished during his term.

And so it would seem to me that those folks would be leading the charge to get everyone to accept the "Trump Vaccine" as a key way for them to build his popularity if they want him back in 2024.

What am I missing? Bear in mind I don't want to discuss vaccine acceptance in general or in particular on religious, moral, or scientific grounds. I am just trying to understand the subset that is being handed exactly what they pushed for in regards to a vaccine they said they would take, that would give them a big political advantage, but they refuse it.


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## GTX63 (Dec 13, 2016)

You would have to put that question to the specific people you ran across. Otherwise you are putting all whole demographic of voters into one box, and personally, I have found one group in particular to be a bit more independent in their ideologies.


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## backwoodsman7 (Mar 22, 2007)

I know a lot of Trump supporters. I live in a place where not being a Trump supporter, to one degree or another, makes one anywhere from a curiosity to a pariah, depending on the current company. And I have to say, I haven't encountered anyone like you describe, either in person or online. So I can't comment, except to say that, in general, I would put such people (if they actually exist) in the category that's blind to and hostile toward everything but their own particular brand of political ideology, and I would tend never, or rarely, to engage them on anything related to their views, because it's usually a fool's errand.


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## sharkerbaby (Jan 15, 2016)

nodak3 said:


> I know some folks have issues because they do not believe there is a pandemic. Some have general resistance to vaccines. Some are having issues related to their faith. I may disagree with those folks but I do understand their pov and their logic.


(1) I suppose there may be a few that believe there is no pandemic but I know far more who's actual belief is that C19 is a real thing that does make people sick and can even be fatal but is not NEARLY as devastating as we are being told it is. These people are frequently being falsely labeled as "deniers". 

(2) Yes, some have general resistance to vaccines so it should not be a surprise they are resistant to this one as well.

(3) Issues related to faith are more targeted to only one of the vaccines the other two have much less faith based controversy.



nodak3 said:


> I am talking about some other folks I have run across. These folks were ardent supporters of Trump and Operation Warp Speed. They openly felt if a vaccine or vaccines were developed they should be known as the Trump Vaccine, collectively. And they thought if vaccines developed under his term of office did bring a speedy end to the pandemic it would make him arguably among the top two or three presidents. Prior to the election they were talking up vaccines to everybody, and swearing they would be at the front of the line to get one.
> 
> Then came the election. Trump is no longer president. And now they are adamant that they will NEVER get a vax. But what puzzles me is that these vaccines were developed under Trump and roll out of at least some started WHILE he was in office. So no matter who is president now, if the vaccine were to end the pandemic and restore normalcy to the world Trump would still get the credit for it being accomplished during his term.


(4) I have run across NOONE that has touted this hypocritical belief. 

(5) What I have run across quite frequently is that the first two vaccines are not fully trusted because they are a brand new approach to vaccines and come with the lack of long term trials that considers lasting effects and potential safety concerns. These people have not changed their stance before or after the election and would be just as skeptical had Trump remained in office. Also, these are the folks that are being labeled as heartless, selfish, idiots, who refuse to believe "science and data", are a threat to society, deserve to be cut off from medical insurance, and should be escorted from public gatherings at gunpoint if necessary. Yes, most of these were ardent Trump supporters but not all, I count myself among them.

FWIW - I fall into categories1, 3, and 5. I had and still have no intention of getting the vaccine because of (1) and (5), I figured if I was forced to for some reason I'd get the most recently released one because it was developed using conventional methods but now I'm faced with (3) so now I potentially find myself between a rock and a hard place.


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## robin416 (Dec 29, 2019)

I wonder what they're reaction would be when they found out these vaccines had been in development for years before Trump.


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## sharkerbaby (Jan 15, 2016)

robin416 said:


> I wonder what they're reaction would be when they found out these vaccines had been in development for years before Trump.


They and I would feel the same because (surprise!!!) many of us already know that and knew it. Development does NOT equal clinical trials!!! There are a lot of things that have been in development for years but then fail the trials and/or are denied approval by the FDA or other gov't agency. There's even a number of products that have passed both these hurdles and then get pulled because (uh oh) there were hidden long term effects that weren't caught (or in some cases disclosed) during the trials and approval process. I'm sure you've been exposed to almost all of them - they usually are quickly followed up with class action lawsuits.


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## Chinclub (Mar 2, 2005)

I was pro vaccine before it was rushed, before we learned how little they know about the vaccine, before very simple questions couldn't be answered, before we learned the side effects AFTER they began giving it out. They still can't tell us how long it will even be effective. Last research I saw showed getting covid gives you a 3 month immunity. Last research I saw on the vaccine said we are still waiting to see when vaccinated people start catching covid again. There are still too many questions. I am all for a correctly tested vaccine that goes through normal clinical trials, however, I would not sign up to be a part of that trial. With this, the whole world is the clinical trial. It's just not worth the risk. FYI, I know 3 families who each lost a loved one within 24 hours of taking the 2nd shot. They are now being told it was a side effect of them taking the shot after having tested positive for covid during the last year. WHAT??!! Anyone hear that on the news or see it in the paperwork? Nope! I wouldn't know it of I didn't know the families directly.


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## MoonRiver (Sep 2, 2007)

I think your bias is showing.

1) These are experimental vaccines
2) The pharmaceutical companies are protected against legal action for any injuries caused by the Covid-19 vaccines
3) Most people have a low risk of hospitalization or death from Covid-19
4) Treatment options appear to be effective at treating and even preventing covid-19
5) The rapid decline in Sars-Cov2 infections indicates we are likely close to herd immunity
6) WHO, CDC, and NIH have failed to demonstrate competency throughout the Covid-19 crisis

My question to you is why are so many people not at high risk rushing to get the vaccine?


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## wr (Aug 10, 2003)

nodak3 said:


> I am trying to understand the pov of a subset of folks that are vaccine resistent for the covid vaccinations.
> 
> I know some folks have issues because they do not believe there is a pandemic. Some have general resistance to vaccines. Some are having issues related to their faith. I may disagree with those folks but I do understand their pov and their logic.
> 
> ...


The sad thing is that you seem to want to make it political, which isn't allowed in GC and it seems you have already formed your own opinion anyhow so I'm not sure that you're really interested in anybody's response.


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## nodak3 (Feb 5, 2003)

Hmm--asking not to go into why some people reject vaccines for reasons of science or religious grounds or because they reject all vaccines is ignored. Some of you have not talked to the people I have talked to and that means they don't exist.

And trying to understand a point of view different from my own means I am biased?

Wow. Either I hit a nerve, or ya'll are real sheltered from the fact there are billions of points of view and it is a good thing to try to understand those that differ from your own, or something else is going on.

But I get it. This sure is a different website and forum than it used to be.


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## wr (Aug 10, 2003)

nodak3 said:


> Hmm--asking not to go into why some people reject vaccines for reasons of science or religious grounds or because they reject all vaccines is ignored. Some of you have not talked to the people I have talked to and that means they don't exist.
> 
> And trying to understand a point of view different from my own means I am biased?
> 
> ...


It was the lengthy political rant that allowed many of us to believe you already formed your own opinion that indicated you may not be interested in answers that may be given.

You injected political bias and a heavy tone of condescention in your post that doesn't allow me to feel comfortable sharing my thoughts.


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## po boy (Jul 12, 2010)

To me, the stats don't warrant me getting it.

My last flu shot was 1976.................... I may have had the flu in 1981.


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## NRA_guy (Jun 9, 2015)

The main population that has been opposed to getting the vaccine in Mississippi has been blacks. Blacks resisted mainly because they did not trust the vaccine. They feared that it would alter their DNA and that it had been designed to do so. 

They are almost universally non-Trump supporters, and part of their distrust stemmed from the fact that it was developed under Trump.

There has been a major push by the government and black leaders to allay their fear, and it is working pretty well. The percentage of blacks who are getting the vaccine has increased significantly in the last few weeks.


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## Lisa in WA (Oct 11, 2004)

NRA_guy said:


> The main population that has been opposed to getting the vaccine in Mississippi has been blacks. Blacks resisted mainly because they did not trust the vaccine. They feared that it would alter their DNA and that it had been designed to do so.
> 
> They are almost universally non-Trump supporters, and part of their distrust stemmed from the fact that it was developed under Trump.
> 
> There has been a major push by the government and black leaders to allay their fear, and it is working pretty well. The percentage of blacks who are getting the vaccine has increased significantly in the last few weeks.


i think that also the Tuskegee experiments still haunt many southern blacks. I’ve heard them mentioned in their aversion to the new vaccine.


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## 101pigs (Sep 18, 2018)

sharkerbaby said:


> (1) I suppose there may be a few that believe there is no pandemic but I know far more who's actual belief is that C19 is a real thing that does make people sick and can even be fatal but is not NEARLY as devastating as we are being told it is. These people are frequently being falsely labeled as "deniers".
> 
> (2) Yes, some have general resistance to vaccines so it should not be a surprise they are resistant to this one as well.
> 
> ...


Got my two shots along with just about all the health care people from our nurning home. Feels good to go in public and feed a bit safe from the virus. I still wear a mask just in case while shopping. With as many people who have died from this virus looks like everybody would be standing in line to get the shot. All member of the DT whitehouse has had the shot. That should give people a hint about getting the shot no matter how the DT played it down.


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## doc- (Jun 26, 2015)

Chinclub said:


> I FYI, I know 3 families who each lost a loved one within 24 hours of taking the 2nd shot.


You should report that to Ripley...Considering that there have been, in round numbers, 500,000 CoV deaths in 330,00,000 Americans-- that's 1 in every 1700 people-- ie- you'd have to know (on average) 3400 people just to know of 2 deaths-- and as of last week, there have been only 936 deaths following closely a CoV vaccine. You must know A LOT of people.

Back to the original question...I've been defending the vac here based on the numbers & the science. I think the excuses given by those refusing it, for the most part, don't hold up well to scientific scrutiny, BUT-- I'm not taking it as a gesture of Resistance to Big Brother. (Plus, I feel I can get away with this given that, by my calculations, we're already are very close to the state of herd immunity achieved naturally.)


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## Danaus29 (Sep 12, 2005)

Trump got it, it must be safe.

I don't want it because I want to know if it really is;
a) effective, prevents infection instead of just symptoms
b) safe in the long run
c) long lasting
d) prevents the spread of covid
e) is better than antibodies obtained by beating covid

The more I hear, 'just do it, it's for your own good' and 'we need to educate those who hesitate about getting the vaccine' but don't hear answers to my questions, the less I trust it.


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## Redlands Okie (Nov 28, 2017)

MoonRiver said:


> I think your bias is showing.
> 
> 1) These are experimental vaccines
> 2) The pharmaceutical companies are protected against legal action for any injuries caused by the Covid-19 vaccines
> ...





Danaus29 said:


> Trump got it, it must be safe.
> 
> I don't want it because I want to know if it really is;
> a) effective, prevents infection instead of just symptoms
> ...


Those two post pretty well covers my reasons. Would think there are very very few people who would think otherwise. Seems lots have not problem with the vaccines and willing ignore the concerns listed above. Just goes to show, people come in many types.


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## wr (Aug 10, 2003)

The big problem I have with the need to understand is that the come from someone who has steadfastly maintained that we aren’t vaccinate we don’t care about others and if we present concerns, the OP falls back on other negative comments. 

I would prefer she tells us why she feels obligated to insist we do what she feels is best for us. 

I will make my decision with my doctor when I’m able to be vaccinated and yet each time I repeat that, her and several others seem to feel they are more qualified to discuss my concerns than he is.


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## Hiro (Feb 14, 2016)

wr said:


> The big problem I have with the need to understand is that the come from someone who has steadfastly maintained that we aren’t vaccinate we don’t care about others and if we present concerns, the OP falls back on other negative comments.
> 
> I would prefer she tells us why she feels obligated to insist we do what she feels is best for us.
> 
> I will make my decision with my doctor when I’m able to be vaccinated and yet each time I repeat that, her and several others seem to feel they are more qualified to discuss my concerns than he is.


The need to understand is not what some are after. If the desire was to truly understand the hypothetical people, they would engage the hypothetical people. It wouldn't be to post a question to others about said hypothetical people. Hypothetically speaking, of course.


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## Alice In TX/MO (May 10, 2002)

It's the same as any pontificator. Pretend there is a question. Then make a speech


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## 101pigs (Sep 18, 2018)

nodak3 said:


> I am trying to understand the pov of a subset of folks that are vaccine resistent for the covid vaccinations.
> 
> I know some folks have issues because they do not believe there is a pandemic. Some have general resistance to vaccines. Some are having issues related to their faith. I may disagree with those folks but I do understand their pov and their logic.
> 
> ...


DT played down gettng the shot from day one. After DT and two others got the Virus and got special treatment in the mean time a bunch of people in the WH got the virus and then everone in the WH went and got the shot and it stopped the spread of the virus in the White house. That changed a lot of folks mine about the shot. Now 73 % public folks are rushing to get the shot including me. Thanks for your post on this imortant issue.


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## wr (Aug 10, 2003)

101pigs said:


> DT played down gettng the shot from day one. After DT and two others got the Virus and got special treatment in the mean time a bunch of people in the WH got the virus and then everone in the WH went and got the shot and it stopped the spread of the virus in the White house. That changed a lot of folks mine about the shot. Now 73 % public folks are rushing to get the shot including me. Thanks for your post on this imortant issue.


Have you read the rules about political discussion in GC?


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## Wellbuilt (Dec 25, 2020)

I’m just not that guy 
I’m not get the dam shot any time soon. 
My family mostly has the shot now . 
I may come around in July and get it
Or maybe not .
I know 2 people that had COVID had both shots sill wear a mast still don’t go out much and have COVID again .


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## doc- (Jun 26, 2015)

Danaus29 said:


> Trump got it, it must be safe.
> 
> I don't want it because I want to know if it really is;
> a)* effective, prevents infection instead of just symptoms*- Infection IS symptoms (as opposed to colonization- no symptoms; no damage)
> ...


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## gilberte (Sep 25, 2004)

I get a kick out of these high profile people publicly getting their "shot", how the heck do we know what's in the needle?

Doc, how many of those "Covid" deaths were "strategically" arrived at?

Somebody please tell my what, specifically, Trump had to do with the development of any vaccine?


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## doc- (Jun 26, 2015)

gilberte said:


> I get a kick out of these high profile people publicly getting their "shot", how the heck do we know what's in the needle?
> 
> Doc, how many of those "Covid" deaths were "strategically" arrived at?
> 
> Somebody please tell my what, specifically, Trump had to do with the development of any vaccine?;


I don't trust any of the numbers...Political and economic incentives to adjust them unscientifically. Our death rates seem to be a little higher than most other countries, when they are probably all averaging the same in reality.

Trump's input?-- he insisted that the usual time-frame of approval of applications for new treatment be shortened. He cut red tape... In fact, the applications were completed and submitted and could have been approved in Sept., but the FDA, for obscure (?) reasons delayed until *after* the election.


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## gilberte (Sep 25, 2004)

I question his motives for cutting red tape, if he indeed did so. Why is the red tape there in the first place if it's not needed?


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## NRA_guy (Jun 9, 2015)

Trump was going to be criticized regardless of whether he: 
(a) expedited development and deployment of the vaccine, 
(b) was overly cautious about fielding the vaccine, 
(c) followed normal protocols about developing and deploying the vaccine, or 
(d) took no role whatsoever in developing and deploying the vaccine.

"Never let a crisis go wasted---and if there is no crisis, create one."


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## GTX63 (Dec 13, 2016)

nodak3 said:


> I am trying to understand the pov of a subset of folks that are vaccine resistent for the covid vaccinations.
> 
> I am talking about some other folks I have run across. These folks were ardent supporters of Trump and Operation Warp Speed.
> 
> What am I missing?


I'm still waiting for your response as to what they told you when you asked them?


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## doc- (Jun 26, 2015)

gilberte said:


> Why is the red tape there in the first place if it's not needed?


You must live REALLY far off- grid.


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## Wellbuilt (Dec 25, 2020)

That’s funny doc , I’m off grid and if did not talk to people in other areas , you would not even know there was a virus going around , it did not ramp up here until July .
Even today I’m listening to the radio here for the last 7 hours and there is nothing about the virus . I’m in NY


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## GTX63 (Dec 13, 2016)

I haven't watched the main stream news, cable or network for years. A minute or two here on the truck radio, otherwise I have to search for what I want to know.
It is like breaking a bad habit that just makes you feel bad everytime you go back.
And you know, the world won't last another day more or less if you didn't hear about it.


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## Redlands Okie (Nov 28, 2017)

gilberte said:


> I question his motives for cutting red tape, if he indeed did so. Why is the red tape there in the first place if it's not needed?


The proper studies required by the red tape is needed. It’s been proven so over the years. For some reason it was deemed not needed this time. 

Why do you think part of the paper work the vaccine makers have insure them against any and all responsibilities if something goes bad. At least thats what I read. I assume the rest of the paper work is about the prepaid and guaranteed funding for just the attempts at the vaccine.


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## SLFarmMI (Feb 21, 2013)

It would be nice if folks didn't try to subtly, or not so subtly, try to shame people into getting the vaccine if they don't want it or if they are choosing to hold off. Anyone who wants the vaccine should be able to get it and have their decision respected. Anyone who doesn't want the vaccine should be able to not get it and have their decision respected. 

For me, I am waiting, as I have done with any new vaccine, to see what the long term side effects are. Seeing as I have already had a reaction to the one time I had a flu vaccine (felt like hot flaming ants were crawling up and down my arm for a week and a half) and the fact that something as innocuous as Tylenol can, and has, given me full body hives (which sucks btw), that makes the most sense for me.


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## TripleD (Feb 12, 2011)

SLFarmMI said:


> It would be nice if folks didn't try to subtly, or not so subtly, try to shame people into getting the vaccine if they don't want it or if they are choosing to hold off. Anyone who wants the vaccine should be able to get it and have their decision respected. Anyone who doesn't want the vaccine should be able to not get it and have their decision respected.
> 
> For me, I am waiting, as I have done with any new vaccine, to see what the long term side effects are. Seeing as I have already had a reaction to the one time I had a flu vaccine (felt like hot flaming ants were crawling up and down my arm for a week and a half) and the fact that something as innocuous as Tylenol can, and has, given me full body hives (which sucks btw), that makes the most sense for me.


On this we agree. Step dad got his first vaccine and the next day we thought he had another stroke. He got his 2nd yesterday and was peeing in his pants. Same as the last shot.


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## Redlands Okie (Nov 28, 2017)

SLFarmMI said:


> It would be nice if folks didn't try to subtly, or not so subtly, try to shame people into getting the vaccine if they don't want it or if they are choosing to hold off. Anyone who wants the vaccine should be able to get it and have their decision respected. Anyone who doesn't want the vaccine should be able to not get it and have their decision respected.
> 
> For me, I am waiting, as I have done with any new vaccine, to see what the long term side effects are. Seeing as I have already had a reaction to the one time I had a flu vaccine (felt like hot flaming ants were crawling up and down my arm for a week and a half) and the fact that something as innocuous as Tylenol can, and has, given me full body hives (which sucks btw), that makes the most sense for me.


Well posted and I agree. Hopefully the politicians will think the same.


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## SLFarmMI (Feb 21, 2013)

TripleD said:


> On this we agree. Step dad got his first vaccine and the next day we thought he had another stroke. He got his 2nd yesterday and was peeing in his pants. Same as the last shot.


Hopefully your stepdad is well now.

One of my friends said she felt like she was run over by a truck after the first shot. She could barely get out of bed for 2 days. After the second, she had the worst headache of her life for 3 days. She said it took her a full day to be able to even open her eyes without vomiting it was that bad.


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## SLFarmMI (Feb 21, 2013)

On a completely off topic tangent, I find it odd that people are announcing, on social media and in real life, that they got their shot. Seriously, when was the last time, or ever, you heard someone announce, "Hey, I got my pap smear today. I'm so excited"?


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## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

A vaccine shot is not as intimate as a pap smear but even then I have a group of women friends that do discuss such intimate procedures. They do so because a couple of them lost female family members to reproductive cancer and are always encouraging others to get their yearly tests. Colonoscopies are also discussed to encourage others to get them.


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## TripleD (Feb 12, 2011)

SLFarmMI said:


> Hopefully your stepdad is well now.
> 
> One of my friends said she felt like she was run over by a truck after the first shot. She could barely get out of bed for 2 days. After the second, she had the worst headache of her life for 3 days. She said it took her a full day to be able to even open her eyes without vomiting it was that bad.


He was fine before both "shots". Told me everything to get his income taxes ready. He's always done it himself.


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## sharkerbaby (Jan 15, 2016)

SLFarmMI said:


> On a completely off topic tangent, I find it odd that people are announcing, on social media and in real life, that they got their shot. Seriously, when was the last time, or ever, you heard someone announce, "Hey, I got my pap smear today. I'm so excited"?


It's all part of the performance theater which includes virtuous boasting to prove they are doing their part to save the world. Next will be the dramatic displaying of their "papers" and the scarlet "V"s plastered on everyone else's chest as a visible indicator to ensure public derision and ridicule.


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## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

Now we are back to shaming people who chose to get the vaccine.


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## MoonRiver (Sep 2, 2007)

Redlands Okie said:


> The proper studies required by the red tape is needed. It’s been proven so over the years. For some reason it was deemed not needed this time.
> 
> Why do you think part of the paper work the vaccine makers have insure them against any and all responsibilities if something goes bad. At least thats what I read. I assume the rest of the paper work is about the prepaid and guaranteed funding for just the attempts at the vaccine.


Cutting red tape had nothing to do with the vaccine approval process. Two separate processes. However, what the FDA did was grant Emergency Use Authorization.


> From a safety perspective, FDA expects an EUA submission will include all safety data accumulated from phase 1 and 2 studies conducted with the vaccine, with an expectation that phase 3 data will include a median follow-up of at least 2-months (meaning that at least half of vaccine recipients in phase 3 clinical trials have at least 2 months of follow-up) after completion of the full vaccination regimen. FDA


So no long term studies have been done yet, which is part of the reason they were available so quickly. At some point in time, they will likely get full approval from the FDA, but right now they are considered experimental vaccines approved for emergency use.

I believe the reason the government would not consider HCQ or Ivermectin as treatment for Covid-19 is this:


> Under an EUA, FDA may allow the use of unapproved medical products, or unapproved uses of approved medical products in an emergency to diagnose, treat, or prevent serious or life-threatening diseases or conditions when certain statutory criteria have been met,* including that there are no adequate, approved, and available alternatives*.


If the government had approved HCQ, Quercetin and Zinc, or Ivermectin treatment for Covid-19, they likely would not have been able to approve EUAs for the vaccines.


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## doc- (Jun 26, 2015)

Redlands Okie said:


> The proper studies required by the red tape is needed. It’s been proven so over the years. For some reason it was deemed not needed this time.
> 
> Why do you think part of the paper work the vaccine makers have insure them against any and all responsibilities if something goes bad. At least thats what I read. I assume the rest of the paper work is about the prepaid and guaranteed funding for just the attempts at the vaccine.


There are no time requirements on getting FDA approval of a drug...Testing must be done & data accumulated & then statistically analyzed to show there is indeed a difference in outcomes between the new treatment and the old or a placebo and to define the side /safety profile....All those things are relative. We accept a different safety profile for chemotherapy than we do for treating headaches, etc....Some drugs act over yrs & yrs while others act over the course of minutes, etc etc

The application & acceptance process after the testing is done is kinda like a baseball game-- a 4 hr MLB game only has the ball actually in play for about 3 minutes....The completed vax application sat idle on the FDA desk for 3 months before acceptance, and that was on the "accelerated" plan pushed by The President. Criminal negligence, in my opinion.


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## TripleD (Feb 12, 2011)

painterswife said:


> Now we are back to shaming people who chose to get the vaccine.


 Not me!


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## wdcutrsdaughter (Dec 9, 2012)

SLFarmMI said:


> On a completely off topic tangent, I find it odd that people are announcing, on social media and in real life, that they got their shot. Seriously, when was the last time, or ever, you heard someone announce, "Hey, I got my pap smear today. I'm so excited"?


I agree with you on this. I have wondered the same thing. In some instances they were back to back posts of people I used to work with announcing their news. Guess it was a busy day in nh for the shots that day.



sharkerbaby said:


> It's all part of the performance theater which includes virtuous boasting to prove they are doing their part to save the world. *Next will be the dramatic displaying of their "papers" *and the scarlet "V"s plastered on everyone else's chest as a visible indicator to ensure public derision and ridicule.


Holding the card saying they got it ? I saw a couple of those already.



painterswife said:


> Now we are back to shaming people who chose to get the vaccine.


Aren't they risking the possibly of being talked about or judged (either for better or worse) by putting the information out there?
If I could, I'd ask they why they posted about it... but I think that might be considered rude so I won't. I don't want to offend anyone, I am just curious. Really falls under none of my business, but again, they brought it up so .... I dunno. weird times.


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## Rodeo's Bud (Apr 10, 2020)

I'm not getting it.

I figure if they don't force the military to get it, and they get shots for everything, there may, or must be a reason.

I'll wait.


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## Danaus29 (Sep 12, 2005)

doc-, in response to your reply;
there is a defined difference between infection and symptoms. The CDC has definitions for the difference between covid symptoms and asymptomatic post vaccination infection. I have posted it before. That information is on their website. You can still get covid after vaccination, you just don't get sick from it.

Polio is much more dangerous than covid. Comparing the 2 is about as irrelevant as comparing an antibiotic for a bacteria to a vaccine to prepare for a viral invasion. Which, BTW, I am allergic to PCN, so no, I won't take PCN for strep throat. You know an antibiotic is taken to kill bacteria. Covid is not a bacterial infection. You don't get the vaccine to cure covid. You get the vaccine to prevent serious illness from covid.

Which brings up another point, if the nasty virus I got a last year was not covid and I don't have covid antibodies, how can TPTB be sure I will not be one of the majority of covid patients who has only mild symptoms?


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## Redlands Okie (Nov 28, 2017)

SLFarmMI said:


> On a completely off topic tangent, I find it odd that people are announcing, on social media and in real life, that they got their shot. Seriously, when was the last time, or ever, you heard someone announce, "Hey, I got my pap smear today. I'm so excited"?


Thank you for the laugh. Well said.


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## Redlands Okie (Nov 28, 2017)

MoonRiver said:


> Cutting red tape had nothing to do with the vaccine approval process. Two separate processes. However, what the FDA did was grant Emergency Use Authorization.
> 
> 
> So no long term studies have been done yet, which is part of the reason they were available so quickly. At some point in time, they will likely get full approval from the FDA, but right now they are considered experimental vaccines approved for emergency use.
> ...




“However, what the FDA did was grant Emergency Use Authorization.” That right there is a obvious problem and shows that the normal procedures were not followed. 

Keep in mind that no fault, prepaid regardless of performance funding provided by the taxpayers. Thats another problem.


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## MoonRiver (Sep 2, 2007)

Redlands Okie said:


> “However, what the FDA did was grant Emergency Use Authorization.” That right there is a obvious problem and shows that the normal procedures were not followed.
> 
> Keep in mind that no fault, prepaid regardless of performance funding provided by the taxpayers. Thats another problem.


EUA is the normal procedure for emergencies.


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## MoonRiver (Sep 2, 2007)

Summary from article: *NY Doctor Proved Everyone Wrong About Hydroxychloroquine*

As early as March 2020, Dr. Vladimir Zelenko boasted a near-100% success rate treating COVID-19 patients with hydroxychloroquine (HCQ), azithromycin and zinc sulfate for five days
Zelenko has now treated 3,000 patients with COVID-19 symptoms and only three high-risk patients have died
Misinformation and outright lies were spun about HCQ, including fabricated research, in an apparent effort to suppress and prevent widespread use
Early treatment is crucial. During the first five days of SARS-CoV-2 infection, the viral load remains fairly steady. Around Day 5, it exponentially increases, potentially overwhelming your immune system. To prevent complications, treatment needs to begin within the first five days of symptom onset
Early treatment is also crucial to prevent “long-haul” symptoms after recovery. None of Zelenko’s patients who started their treatment within the first five days went on to develop long-haul symptoms


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## Redlands Okie (Nov 28, 2017)

MoonRiver said:


> EMU is the normal procedure for emergencies.


And thus not a normal procedure. Emergency is another way of saying “not normal”.



The whole idea that this covid problem should have been declared a emergency and the resulting wrecking of the economy and lives of so many citizens I guess belong in a different thread.


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## MoonRiver (Sep 2, 2007)

Redlands Okie said:


> And thus not a normal procedure. Emergency is another way of saying “not normal”.
> 
> The whole idea that this covid problem should have been declared a emergency and the resulting wrecking of the economy and lives of so many citizens I guess belong in a different thread.


You were making the point they shortcutted the process for vaccine approval and they did not. Full approval still takes the same amount of time and EUA required 2 months of follow-up. Nothing in this part of the process was changed for Covid-19. They did stream-line the paperwork part at the beginning.


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## backwoodsman7 (Mar 22, 2007)

MoonRiver said:


> As early as March 2020, Dr. Vladimir Zelenko boasted a near-100% success rate treating COVID-19 patients with hydroxychloroquine (HCQ), azithromycin and zinc sulfate for five days


And he's far from the only one. In the early months, without even looking for the info, I saw a number of doctors say they had 100% success with HCQ against Covid, even the severe cases that required a ventilator. One of them was Rand Paul, who helped out in a hospital after he had Covid, and said it was the standard treatment for Covid in that hospital until it got banned. And pretty much from day 1, the data from around the world showed the places that used HCQ had extremely low death rates, most under 100 per million and some under 10 per million, and all the places that didn't use HCQ had the highest death rates.

All this data has been readily available from day 1, to anyone on the planet with an internet connection. It would be interesting to see a metastudy showing how many hundreds of thousands of people died because politicians and media lied for political reasons, and fearful people who should've known better believed them and went along with the lies. But you really don't need a metastudy; all you have to do is look at the data, and it's crystal clear that somehow, despite all the readily available data, someone managed to turn what should've been almost a non-event into a major disaster on several levels.


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## Redlands Okie (Nov 28, 2017)

MoonRiver said:


> You were making the point they shortcutted the process for vaccine approval and they did not. Full approval still takes the same amount of time and EUA required 2 months of follow-up. Nothing in this part of the process was changed for Covid-19. They did stream-line the paperwork part at the beginning.


Ok, I will keep it simple. Has the FDA given full approval of any of the vaccines yet ? Or are the vaccines still being used under the EUA mandate.


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## Alice In TX/MO (May 10, 2002)

Moon River. You are misinformed.
Read here:








COVID-19 Frequently Asked Questions


COVID-19 Questions and Answers for a general public or consumer audience.




www.fda.gov




.


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## Shrek (May 1, 2002)

Posted 3/15/21 10:42 PM CDST

The news today reported some critical side effects with one of the vaccines.
None of them have had proper alpha trials or empirical beta testing and tracking.

My last two blood screenings in September 2020 and February 2021 both showed I have C19 antibodies along with the most common flu A and B antibodies of the season.

Many years have had a flu C joker in the deck and I have lived through them all without taking any shot in my lifetime.

With the way folks travel , every flu in reality is pandemic but none have been as over hyped as this flu C.

If anyone wants my C19 vaccination reservation , they are welcome to it since I have told my doc and his staff 4 times now that I don't want it and if I ever catch a flu that kills me, then that is just my time to go.


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## MoonRiver (Sep 2, 2007)

Alice In TX/MO said:


> Moon River. You are misinformed.
> Read here:
> https://www.fda.gov/emergency-prepa...s#:~:text=On December 11, 2020,) of a vaccine.


Are you referring to Remdesivir which is the only drug approved and is questionable if it is even effective?

Or maybe this: 
*Q: Are there any vaccines or other medical products available to prevent COVID-19? * 
A: Yes. ...

I never got into that discussion, but I thought the answer to the question was possibly, we don't have enough information to make that determination yet.

You are going to have to be more specific. I'm wrong about a lot of things.


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## Alice In TX/MO (May 10, 2002)

To quote Hiro, “Meh.”


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## Redlands Okie (Nov 28, 2017)

I have seen nothing that says the covid shots prevent covid. Everything I read says it reduces the symptoms.


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## poppy (Feb 21, 2008)

A good country to watch to see how effective the vaccine is would be Israel. Currently their cases and deaths are dropping but so is most of the world. But Israel jumped on the vaccine ahead of other countries and should be a good predictor of its impact. They only have a population of a little over 9 million and have had a little over 800,000 confirmed cases. Unlike other countries, about 57% of their population has had at least one shot and about 47% have had 2 shots. I find no data on the dates shots were given and we know it takes 3 weeks or so for the vaccine to reach full effect, so If the vaccines are effective I would expect the cases and deaths to drop a lot over the next month. They are still vaccinating and combined with the number of cases they've had, I would expect them to reach herd immunity levels soon. Of course we don't know how many of those shots were given to previously infected people.


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## MissyinKentucky (Jan 23, 2003)

The issue with me, an ardent Trump supporter is that if you read up on it it is NOT a vaccine. A vaccine helps you make antibodies to make you immune from the virus. This does not do that. It is considered an "operating system" and does a whole host of other bad things. Research Dr. Tenpenny and hear what she as to say among other doctors. And as for the Moderna version, would you take a vaccine developed by a man whose goal in life is to depopulate the world?


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## MissyinKentucky (Jan 23, 2003)

Redlands Okie said:


> I have seen nothing that says the covid shots prevent covid. Everything I read says it reduces the symptoms.


I just heard and in addition to the fact if you DO get covid your symptoms will be WORSE than if you never got the shot.


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## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

MissyinKentucky said:


> The issue with me, an ardent Trump supporter is that if you read up on it it is NOT a vaccine. A vaccine helps you make antibodies to make you immune from the virus. This does not do that. It is considered an "operating system" and does a whole host of other bad things. Research Dr. Tenpenny and hear what she as to say among other doctors. And as for the Moderna version, would you take a vaccine developed by a man whose goal in life is to depopulate the world?


It is a vaccine and it does make your immune system create antibodies. I would love to see what you have read that says otherwise.


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## todd_xxxx (Apr 19, 2018)

MissyinKentucky said:


> The issue with me, an ardent Trump supporter is that if you read up on it it is NOT a vaccine. A vaccine helps you make antibodies to make you immune from the virus. This does not do that. It is considered an "operating system" and does a whole host of other bad things. Research Dr. Tenpenny and hear what she as to say among other doctors. And as for the Moderna version, would you take a vaccine developed by a man whose goal in life is to depopulate the world?





MissyinKentucky said:


> I just heard and in addition to the fact if you DO get covid your symptoms will be WORSE than if you never got the shot.



Everything in both these posts is wrong.


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## Willowynd (Mar 27, 2005)

I have an issue with vaccines as they are not always effective and tax the immune system, look at the flu vaccine- viruses mutate so even though it may be effective to that strain- it probably won’t be to née strains. Secondly, this “vaccine” is not a vaccine. It is a genetic modification of m-rna. They labeled it as such as they can’t be sued if it goes wrong. Third, there have been very little testing. Fourth, it had caused deaths. Fifth, is the disease going to cause death or is the risk worth it? In Immunocompromised individuals, where the disease can be deadly, it may be worth the risk- or it may be the straw that devastates the immune system as it’s already compromised. In people with a strong immune system or even moderate- I don’t think it’s worth the risk.


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## Danaus29 (Sep 12, 2005)

Dr. Tenpenny is a rabid anti-vaxxer. I would not take her word if she said the sky was blue. 









Who is anti-vaccination campaigner Sherri Tenpenny?


Anti-vaccination campaigner Sherri Tenpenny has caused a stir with plans to speak in Australia, but just who is the controversial American doctor?




www.abc.net.au


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## todd_xxxx (Apr 19, 2018)

Willowynd said:


> I have an issue with vaccines as they are not always effective and tax the immune system, look at the flu vaccine- viruses mutate so even though it may be effective to that strain- it probably won’t be to née strains. Secondly, this “vaccine” is not a vaccine. It is a genetic modification of m-rna. They labeled it as such as they can’t be sued if it goes wrong. Third, there have been very little testing. Fourth, it had caused deaths. Fifth, is the disease going to cause death or is the risk worth it? In Immunocompromised individuals, where the disease can be deadly, it may be worth the risk- or it may be the straw that devastates the immune system as it’s already compromised. In people with a strong immune system or even moderate- I don’t think it’s worth the risk.


I posted this on another thread, but please, read it and tell me how this isn't a vaccine.

vac·cine | \ vak-ˈsēn , ˈvak-ˌsēn \
Definition of vaccine
: a preparation that is administered (as by injection) to stimulate the body's immune response against a specific infectious disease:


"There are a few main novel coronavirus (COVID-19) vaccines. The two-dose vaccines currently approved for use in the U.S. are messenger RNA (mRNA) vaccines produced by Pfizer and Moderna. The vaccine includes a fragment of the mRNA that encodes for a certain portion of the coronavirus' spike protein. *When the vaccine is given to us, our cells make that protein – a fragment of it – and then our bodies build an immune response to the protein.*
The single-dose Johnson & Johnson vaccine is a DNA vaccine, but it delivers the same product in the end as the mRNA vaccine produced by Pfizer and Moderna. *This new DNA vaccine allows the body to have an immune response against the spike protein, and ultimately, an immune response to infection.*
The other vaccine produced by Oxford/AstraZeneca is similar. It's in use in the United Kingdom and India. It includes a non-replicating adenovirus vector that has a fragment of the spike protein, *which causes us to have an immune response."*

Emphasis mine.


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## MissyinKentucky (Jan 23, 2003)

painterswife said:


> It is a vaccine and it does make your immune system create antibodies. I would love to see what you have read that says otherwise.


Read it and seen videos multiple times stating those facts. Didn't save the videos but look up Dr. Tenpenny.


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## doc- (Jun 26, 2015)

MissyinKentucky said:


> The issue with me, an ardent Trump supporter is that if you read up on it it is NOT a vaccine. A vaccine helps you make antibodies to make you immune from the virus. This does not do that. It is considered an "operating system" and does a whole host of other bad things. Research Dr. Tenpenny and hear what she as to say among other doctors. And as for the Moderna version, would you take a vaccine developed by a man whose goal in life is to depopulate the world?





MissyinKentucky said:


> I just heard and in addition to the fact if you DO get covid your symptoms will be WORSE than if you never got the shot.


Both statements are ABSOLUTELY *false.*


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## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

MissyinKentucky said:


> Read it and seen videos multiple times stating those facts. Didn't save the videos but look up Dr. Tenpenny.


It is on the internet so it must be true, right. I have done my research and I don't find your opinions are based on proven science.


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## Alice In TX/MO (May 10, 2002)

MissyinKentucky
,
Your political opinions have no place in this discussion, and they weaken your argument.

You may have a small point about the RNA injection, but many folks don't now adhere to the same definition of vaccine that used to be common.


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

nodak3 said:


> What am I missing?


I don't think you are missing anything. You made up plenty to fill any gaps you might have.


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

SLFarmMI said:


> last time, or ever, you heard someone announce, "Hey, I got my pap smear today. I'm so excited"?


I would never post that


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## Danaus29 (Sep 12, 2005)

HDRider said:


> I would never post that


And I would never post that I got my prostate exam. 😁


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## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

People post about Colonoscopys all the time. Only difference is you are asleep during that one.


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## Redlands Okie (Nov 28, 2017)

MissyinKentucky said:


> I just heard and in addition to the fact if you DO get covid your symptoms will be WORSE than if you never got the shot.


Not heard or read that data


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## MissyinKentucky (Jan 23, 2003)

doc- said:


> Both statements are ABSOLUTELY *false.*


We must agree to disagree as I disagree with you. The statements are correct.


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## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

MissyinKentucky said:


> We must agree to disagree as I disagree with you. The statements are correct.


The science has been provided to prove your statements wrong. Do you have science to prove otherwise?


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## SLFarmMI (Feb 21, 2013)

HDRider said:


> I would never post that





Danaus29 said:


> And I would never post that I got my prostate exam. 😁


Well, one would hope not. Not everything in a person's life merits a press release.



painterswife said:


> People post about Colonoscopys all the time. Only difference is you are asleep during that one.


I don't believe I've ever read someone posting on social media or elsewhere, "I got my colonoscopy. I'm so excited."


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## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

SLFarmMI said:


> Well, one would hope not. Not everything in a person's life merits a press release.
> 
> 
> 
> I don't believe I've ever read someone posting on social media or elsewhere, "I got my colonoscopy. I'm so excited."


Well being excited that you may be able to visit and hug someone you haven't for months is more exciting than a rectal exam to most people.


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## SLFarmMI (Feb 21, 2013)

painterswife said:


> Well being excited that you may be able to visit and hug someone you haven't for months is more exciting than a rectal exam to most people.


And neither merits a press release.


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## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

SLFarmMI said:


> And neither merits a press release.


In your world, not in others. Choice is grand isn't it.


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## SLFarmMI (Feb 21, 2013)

painterswife said:


> In your world, not in others. Choice is grand use it.


And I can choose to think it's weird. Ain't it grand?


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## Lisa in WA (Oct 11, 2004)

I’m crushed that you think I’m weird for having shared when I got my vaccine.  

I see people post about their vaccinations and how happy they are to hug their grandchildren/kids/parents, etc. and hug them all the time on Facebook. I don’t think it’s weird at all to want to share your joy and relief at having made it through a pandemic and be able to see your loved ones again.
it’s pretty odd to think it is, IMO.


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## SLFarmMI (Feb 21, 2013)

Lisa in WA said:


> I’m crushed that you think I’m weird for having shared when I got my vaccine.
> 
> I see people post about their vaccinations and how happy they are to hug their grandchildren/kids/parents, etc. and hug them all the time on Facebook. I don’t think it’s weird at all to want to share your joy and relief at having made it through a pandemic and be able to see your loved ones again.
> it’s pretty odd to think it is, IMO.


Do you also post every other medical procedure you get?


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## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

SLFarmMI said:


> Do you also post every other medical procedure you get?


You have posted about your own medical adventures. Now you are shaming others for posting theirs. Why is that.


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## Hiro (Feb 14, 2016)




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## SLFarmMI (Feb 21, 2013)

painterswife said:


> You have posted about your own medical adventures. Now you are shaming others for posting theirs. Why is that.


I'm not shaming anyone. Although there are certainly some out there who are using their "I got my vaccine" posts in an attempt to shame others who are not choosing to get the vaccine.


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## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

SLFarmMI said:


> I'm not shaming anyone. Although there are certainly some out there who are using their "I got my vaccine" posts in an attempt to shame others who are not choosing to get the vaccine.


They are shaming but you are not. I get it now.


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## Lisa in WA (Oct 11, 2004)

SLFarmMI said:


> Do you also post every other medical procedure you get?


What does that have to do with posting about a vaccine that is ending a world wide pandemic?
please explain.


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## SLFarmMI (Feb 21, 2013)

Lisa in WA said:


> What does that have to do with posting about a vaccine that is ending a world wide pandemic?
> please explain.


See posts #39 and #82. That explains it fairly well.


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## Lisa in WA (Oct 11, 2004)

SLFarmMI said:


> On a completely off topic tangent, I find it odd that people are announcing, on social media and in real life, that they got their shot. Seriously, when was the last time, or ever, you heard someone announce, "Hey, I got my pap smear today. I'm so excited"?


What a ridiculous comparison.
A Pap smear is a yearly diagnostic procedure to detect cervical cancer That women have been having for years.
A vaccine prevents or mitigates specific diseases and this one is for a virus that caused a world wide pandemic that has killed almost three million people and has had the world largely on lockdown for the past year.
if you can’t see the difference that has people excited enough to post about it, I don’t know what to tell you.
or did you just think it was titillating to say Pap smear?


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## SLFarmMI (Feb 21, 2013)

Lisa in WA said:


> What a ridiculous comparison.
> A Pap smear is a yearly diagnostic procedure to detect cervical cancer That women have been having for years.
> A vaccine prevents or mitigates specific diseases and this one is for a virus that caused a world wide pandemic that has killed almost three million people and has had the world largely on lockdown for the past year.
> if you can’t see the difference that has people excited enough to post about it, I don’t know what to tell you.
> or did you just think it was titillating to say Pap smear?


That whooshing sound you hear is the point going right over your head.


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## Lisa in WA (Oct 11, 2004)

SLFarmMI said:


> That whooshing sound you hear is the point going right over your head.


Uh-huh.
I know how long you can go on arguing so I’ll bow out and let you yammer.
I find it somewhat ironic that you’re a teacher.


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## Hiro (Feb 14, 2016)

Lisa in WA said:


> Uh-huh.
> I know how long you can go on arguing so I’ll bow out and let you yammer.
> I find it somewhat ironic that you’re a teacher.


Not necessarily a teacher. Employed at public education, there is a distinct difference.


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## Lisa in WA (Oct 11, 2004)

Hiro said:


> Not necessarily a teacher. Employed at public education, there is a distinct difference.


True. And certainly never too busy to go on and on and on.


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## SLFarmMI (Feb 21, 2013)

Hiro said:


> Not necessarily a teacher. Employed at public education, there is a distinct difference.


Planning on sinking another thread with your juvenile, snide little remarks are you?


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## Lisa in WA (Oct 11, 2004)

Says the Queen of snide and juvenile remarks.


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## Alice In TX/MO (May 10, 2002)

I planted herbs and flowers today. Are y’all still snowed in?


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## doc- (Jun 26, 2015)

Alice In TX/MO said:


> I planted herbs and flowers today. Are y’all still snowed in?


 Yea. I was just about to say something about the sad victims of Cabin Fever.


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## gilberte (Sep 25, 2004)

Speaking of Cabin Fever, haven't seen anything from him or WIHH for some time. Are you folks okay?


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## GTX63 (Dec 13, 2016)

Proud of your colonoscopy? That's a good thing. Please limit your selfies.


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## SLFarmMI (Feb 21, 2013)

Alice In TX/MO said:


> I planted herbs and flowers today. Are y’all still snowed in?


We've got the veggies and herbs started in the basement under lights. Still too cold and wet for outdoor planting. Ugh, Michigan clay takes forever to dry out.


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## Alice In TX/MO (May 10, 2002)

Cabin Fever is over on the other board that was created when the climate on this one deteriorated.


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