# 5 Ways the Economic Collapse May Benefit Us



## Ernie (Jul 22, 2007)

1. As electronic devices, games, toys, and other distractions which take away from family life are expensive, they will not be purchased by families with tightening budgets. A deck of cards or some dominoes don't require batteries and may bring the family closer together, instead of everyone seeking individual entertainment and solace in their electronic worlds.

2. Fast food and overly processed TV dinners are going to become less affordable, thus causing more meals to be made from scratch. This will have two main benefits, the first being a healthier food culture and the second, the possibility of cooking time becoming a family enterprise.

3. The all-American pace of life may slow down as less opportunities are available for extraneous activities such as sports, school events, and second jobs. As the pace of life slows, the stress level should ease from the average American.

4. Many people will undergo a resetting of their value system, watching as their bank balances and stock portfolios melt away and their life evaporates down to the core of religion, family, and personal fulfillment.

5. A stronger, healthier economy may be rebuilt from the ground up and based on actual products that are grown, crafted, or harvested from the world around us, instead of the parasitical economy based on fiat money that has led to our current plight.


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## AngieM2 (May 10, 2002)

old skills would be coming back and maybe the elders would be appreciated for what they know and can teach.

(building furniture, houses
sewing clothes, regularly - even by hand
hand embroidering
etc)


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## Jim-mi (May 15, 2002)

I'm inclined to think that your a bit optimistic on your #2. 
Breaking the pee poor food habits for many many is\will be a pain full experience . . . . but it sure needs to happen.


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## Ernie (Jul 22, 2007)

I'm working on being more "let your little light shine" and less "doom and gloom". Work with me here.


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## AngieM2 (May 10, 2002)

Appreciation of time and things earned will be a new ART form.


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## spiffydave (Mar 19, 2008)

6. More people will learn who their neighbors are and (hopefully) begin to build mutual trust, teamwork, and deeper connections as they are forced to rely on each other.

7. Children will be able to experience real work, the satisfaction of a job well done, and seeing that they have something valuable to contribute to their family and their community.

I could keep going. You've started a great list and I'm sure that some of these positive benefits will take place for people. Some, however, will lash out, blame others, rely strictly on the government for help, and will just look to "curse God and die."

I like your determination to look for positives. I agree. This gloom and doom stuff becomes enervating and self-fulfilling. Optimism is best regardless of the situation.


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## Jaclynne (May 14, 2002)

8. As housing becomes more expensive to procure, older parents may move into the macmansions with their adult children, reinforcing(or forcing) the outdated value of 'taking care of your own'.


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## Ernie (Jul 22, 2007)

Funny you should mention that, Halohead. I just read an essay discussing the housing bubble not as a mechanism of inflated loans and mechanics, but rather as a failed policy of industrialism and the left.

Consider than when the baby boomers were children, over half of all American households were families with children. In many cases, large families. By the year 2000 census, only a quarter of households have children. It's fallen further still. Large families SPEND more money on the average and require larger houses. As the family size has fallen, less money is being spent and there's a glut of larger homes in America. Who is going to occupy them? 

There has been a push for awhile towards zero population growth and the American reproduction rate has actually fallen just below the replacement value. Without more people, how do you get the financial growth that the stock market expected? You can't. There's simply less people. I know that consumerism is completely runaway in today's economy, but there's still an upper limit towards what each individual can purchase and consume. 

If America wants to return to financial growth then we need to return to family-oriented policies which promote family growth.


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## Calvin Wiles (May 14, 2008)

As and if this happens, people will again realize the importance of God and Neighbors, instead of the importance of me and what I want.


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## unregistered29228 (Jan 9, 2008)

Ernie said:


> There has been a push for awhile towards zero population growth and the American reproduction rate has actually fallen just below the replacement value.


Hey, I did my share for the population! 

This is a great thread, and I'm on the "glass half full" team too.

I think it will be great if life in general can slow down and people re-learn the art of entertaining themselves, and having conversations with others, living with grandparents, and gathering around the family dinner table. I always felt I was born in the wrong century, but maybe we'll have a little taste of it after all.


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## 7.62mmFMJ (Nov 19, 2008)

Life is a circle. It always comes back to this.


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## The Tin Mom (Dec 30, 2008)

As there are fewer electronic distractions inside, children and their parents will work together outside more - causing less need for medication because the children will be worn out and healthier as well as building great self esteem from all they are accomplishing outside.


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## WanderingOak (Jul 12, 2004)

I'd say that it could easily lead to the rebirth of local culture and community, more regional self-reliance, and the end of agrabiz, Globalism and ecumenical politics.


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## timfromohio (Jun 19, 2007)

To expand on #5, I think that we will have to rely more on localized, "village", economies. We'll have to learn to eat more seasonally (many of the folks on this site already do of course). More bartering for goods and services. More quality, hand-crafted items.


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## diane (May 4, 2002)

Great thread Ernie. I have been hoping for the exact same benefits you listed. It has been rather annoying to be accused of hoping for doom and gloom when what I have been hoping for was a more fulfilling way of life for folks. Not to idealize the past but there were some really great times before everyone had TV and handheld electronic devices. Sitting on the porch shelling peas with my granny and gramps while visiting and telling stories is a very fond memory for me. Porch setting is a lost art.


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## giddy (Nov 14, 2006)

Maybe old general stores like my grandmother had will return. We were 25 miles from the closest grocery. Her 2 story brick general store had everything from the post office, which she was the postmistress, to fabric, levis, groceries, fresh meat market (which she cut up), thread, feed and anything else you might need. She even gave pennicillin shots to those who were sick and couldn't get to town to the doctor. Those were different times then!


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## SnakeRiver (Feb 7, 2009)

As more people walk to save fuel, cut firewood, garden and do more physical chores we may see an increase in the physical health of our nation.


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## pickapeppa (Jan 1, 2005)

People will have more quiet time to read, think, and reflect.

People will become more involved with local politics and watching the overlords of society.


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## beccachow (Nov 8, 2008)

As we rely more on nature, we will respect it more. No more tearing down forests for the mini-mall or building developments on farm land.

ETA: Great post, Ernie. Unfortunately, I cannot cook even a little, so if I have to make from scratch...(shudder).


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## fordy (Sep 13, 2003)

HaloHead said:


> 8. As housing becomes more expensive to procure, older parents may move into the macmansions with their adult children, reinforcing(or forcing) the outdated value of 'taking care of your own'.


.................The #2 guy guy at Countrywide mortgage has formed a new company called Penny Mac , it is actively purchasing large blocks of 
mortgages from the Treasury for very deep discounts . Then , it actively pursues the insolvent debt holder and refinances the mortgage for a 50% discount which reduces the payment too less than half of what it was was , previously . I suppose it's the fed that has taken the hit on the reduction in principle . , fordy:shrug:


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## PrincessFerf (Apr 25, 2008)

Great post, Ernie!

I agree with you whole-heartedly and welcome getting back to a community-based, hard work society.

I don't expect that we'll be back in the 1850's, but it will surely be better than what we have now.

In regards to having multi-generations under one roof... we're experiencing a different sort of problem in our family. Both my mother and my aunt own their own homes. (My aunt never married and has no children of her own. She is my second mother and I'm very close to her.) They are both very independent, but the reality of their years is taking its toll.

We (my sister/her husband and I/my husband) have been talking with my mom and aunt about moving in with us. My mom would fit in well at my sister's place, my aunt at our place. Both of them are very reluctant.. even saying "I will never live with family... blah blah". Even though both of them lived with extended family when they were young.

Its a challenge to gently encourage them to consider it without being pushy. Both my mom and aunt cannot take care of their homes and we are left to maintain our homes and theirs. My sister and her husband have taken on the brunt of the work since we live "in the country" 45 minutes away.

Anyway.... here's to enjoying a simpler time!


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## texican (Oct 4, 2003)

I hate to be a wet towel, but the only families that are going to start appreciating the old time ways.... are the families that are doing it already! What family doesn't already have a tv, computer, video game, dvd player, cell phone, etc... and usually for every member of the family. I'm talking about the non old-time past-time families. My nieces and nephews all have things I didn't get till I was grown.

The onliest way anyone is going to give up their toys, is if the EOTW (as they know it) [compared to the EOTW as "I Know It"] happens, and theres no more electricity to feed their devices. I have a small collection of electronic toys, and I plan on utilizing them till the asteroid hits, and blocks out the sun from my solar panels... short of that, they should last for decades... my batteries won't, but I'd still be able to have music and an occasional movie, during the daytime hours.

I'm afraid we have way too many people for a small scale ecoeconomic system to function. There are too many people that have never worked and never will. Few ecosystems will carry large populations...

Something positive? If the economy disintegrates absolutely completely, and we can have a peaceful transition to asceticism (about a .05% chance of that happening), then the good times will roll.


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## pickapeppa (Jan 1, 2005)

Only one problem there Tex, asceticism has no room for rolling in the good times.


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## Win07_351 (Dec 7, 2008)

giddy said:


> She even gave pennicillin shots to those who were sick and couldn't get to town to the doctor. Those were different times then!


Yep. Now you need several beauracrats, a team of lawyers, and a doctor (with 10years or more of schooling) per 1 penicillin shot.


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## Madame (Jan 1, 2003)

My childhood was shared witn siblings. No tv for several years, we invented most of our games, no computers (I was born in 1953), no music-to-go, mandatory church on Sunday. We were poor, but us kids didn't know it.
Ernie, whether your dream world happens or not will depend mostly on the attitudes of our population - whether we embrace change with a positive outlook or complain incessantly about all we now lack. The latter will thrive.


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## ovsfarm (Jan 14, 2003)

In that rosy future, recycling will be replaced by reusing. People will become downright creative about finding multiple uses for items that previously would have been thrown away. Outdoor mud mats made from braided plastic grocery bags, toothpaste caps to replace broken knobs, and worn out cars turned into mini-greenhouses. It will be time when ingenuity and creativity will be rewarded rather than squashed.


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## Harry Chickpea (Dec 19, 2008)

ovsfarm said:


> In that rosy future, recycling will be replaced by reusing. People will become downright creative about finding multiple uses for items that previously would have been thrown away. Outdoor mud mats made from braided plastic grocery bags, toothpaste caps to replace broken knobs, and worn out cars turned into mini-greenhouses. It will be time when ingenuity and creativity will be rewarded rather than squashed.


All been done. I remember the braided bread-wrapper rugs, I just was re-reading an old TMEN from the 1970s about using a junked car as a dehydrator and greenhouse, and I even remember the toothpaste caps and bottle caps getting used in craft projects.

In the climate of today, there would be concern about the inks in the plastic bags being toxic, toothpaste caps containing harmful amounts of flouride, and a horror from the zoning boards on having a car around that isn't licensed and out on the road polluting.

The real good thing that might happen is that those at the top of the feed chain who get caught ripping people off get turned into soylent green for the pigs. The anger at abuse of power could get that strong.


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## firegirl969 (Nov 3, 2008)

Great post, Ernie! I like the change in the tone of your posts lately. DH, my sister, and BIL and I are staying with my parents on the weekends and helping to take care of their farm. We both moved our campers over there and stay in them. Dad is very ill, so one of us usually stays at the house so that mom can get a good night's sleep on Friday and Saturday. We enjoy sitting around the table for big family meals. I grew up doing that but got away from it when the kids were growing up and I was always busy. I look forward to the world you describe, as I see it being a better place. Thanks for the insight, firegirl


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## PrettyPaisley (May 18, 2007)

HaloHead said:


> 8. As housing becomes more expensive to procure, older parents may move into the macmansions with their adult children, reinforcing(or forcing) the outdated value of 'taking care of your own'.



My mom recently lost a ton of money in the stock market. Finally, after begging her to take it out, I sent her an email Sunday night and told her that I fully expected her to come live at my place when TSHTF. I think the idea of living with me again spurred her to take what she had left out, but she did say she had been trying to figure out a way to break it to her children that she would become a "burden to her childern" at some point. 

By far, I do not live in a McMansion, but the idea of my mom living with me makes me giddy. I cannot wait to be close to her again, whether she likes it or not!


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## Guest (Mar 5, 2009)

giddy said:


> Maybe old general stores like my grandmother had will return. We were 25 miles from the closest grocery. Her 2 story brick general store had everything from the post office, which she was the postmistress, to fabric, levis, groceries, fresh meat market (which she cut up), thread, feed and anything else you might need. She even gave pennicillin shots to those who were sick and couldn't get to town to the doctor. Those were different times then!


I remember one of those genral stores (except for the pennicillin shots). That was when you could still get candy for a penny.


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## LamiPub (Nov 10, 2006)

> 4. Many people will undergo a resetting of their value system, watching as their bank balances and stock portfolios melt away and their life evaporates down to the core of religion, family, and personal fulfillment.


I am seeing this. Not everyone, but some people are standing back and taking a look at their spending, their waste and are working at getting out of debt, staying out of debt and realize there is more to life than money and material things. The 'keeping up with the Jones' and the 'instant gratification' mentality is going away and that it is a good thing, imo. These people are definitely looking more closely at the lives they had been living and are taking more responsibility in their lives and in their communities (local and national).




> 6. More people will learn who their neighbors are and (hopefully) begin to build mutual trust, teamwork, and deeper connections as they are forced to rely on each other.


I am seeing this among family and in the rural areas. Not sure about the cities but definitely see that hard times actually pull families and us rural folks closer together. It is a blessing and very uplifting to see and be a part of this renewal of the "country neighbor" spirit that I thought had been lost. I have connected with more people in my community in the last year than I have in the seven previous years. It is odd but during these recent rough times people in our little rural area have actually been more friendly. This is the main thing I love about living in rural America. 

I have been hearing of young adults and married couples moving back in with their parents. I know our 20 yo son has moved back home (well...kinda lol). I believe that families are pulling back together and the family unit and it's value is returning.


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## Ernie (Jul 22, 2007)

firegirl969 said:


> Great post, Ernie! I like the change in the tone of your posts lately. DH, my sister, and BIL and I are staying with my parents on the weekends and helping to take care of their farm. We both moved our campers over there and stay in them. Dad is very ill, so one of us usually stays at the house so that mom can get a good night's sleep on Friday and Saturday. We enjoy sitting around the table for big family meals. I grew up doing that but got away from it when the kids were growing up and I was always busy. I look forward to the world you describe, as I see it being a better place. Thanks for the insight, firegirl


Well, I'm glad you notice the change in tone.

I was getting pretty stressed out about things and so I sat down and prayed about it. For a couple of days. Finally the answer came back to me. "Did you think I would let you, my servant, starve to death in the ditch like a dog? Do you think that the government, the corporations, or any of these other earthly entities you fear are stronger than me, that they could thwart MY will and MY plan for you? They will not have you until your work here is done, and when your work is done then there will be no desire left in you to remain on earth but you will rejoice in joining me in Heaven."

So properly shamed by my lack of faith, I got back to the tasks I have been assigned.


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## homesteadmama (May 30, 2002)

Thank you for sharing that Ernie--just reading the words gives me a much needed peaceful feeling, and reminds me yet again just Who is in charge!


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## Jan in CO (May 10, 2002)

Thanks for the inspiration, Ernie! I've been trying to be positive about the way the economy is going, too. One thing I found out recently from the librarians on the bookmobile, or mobile library as they now call it, is that library usage here is UP 30%! I think that is a great thing, more families checking out books, games, movies, etc. I've been concerned with the budget cuts, thinking that the mobile library services might be cut, but I guess not.

Hubby got laid off from his part time job, and has been home doing all kinds of projects we have the materials for, but he hasn't had time to tackle. I'm so very thankful for that! We have his military retirement, so we won't starve. I have lots of seeds, so will start the garden and do what we can for those who can't grow anything, as well as for ourselves.

My mom keeps telling me people need to get the spirit they had during WWII-help your neighbors, grow things for yourself, use what you have and be glad for it. Maybe this WILL help people get back to basics, and their values.
Jan in Co


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## firegirl969 (Nov 3, 2008)

Ernie,

I have a question for you that the seniors at the center have posed. Matthew says that we should not put up a storehouse as the Lord will provide our food as he knows our needs. The seniors wonder why me and others are storing up. I have said in the past that I fell led to store, but when I re-read the passage, I questioned myself. Help!


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## Ernie (Jul 22, 2007)

Tough one. I'm not sure, but maybe they are talking about Luke 12:24 which says, "Consider the ravens: for they neither sow nor reap; which neither have storehouse nor barn; and God feedeth them: how much more are ye better than the fowls?"

I'm not a pastor, but here's how I have always interpreting this particular passage.

While the ravens neither sow nor reap, they must get about the business of being ravens, which means finding food and raising baby ravens. I too, must get about the business of finding food and raising baby humans. For that it is intended that I shall sow and I shall reap and I must indeed put some aside for winter, or for others in need.

To put this passage in context, in Luke 12:16-21 Jesus discusses the rich man who was busy building so many storehouses and barns to hold all his wealth. That rich man's life ended THAT DAY and all of his earthly goods and his worries of where to put them were no longer of consequence.

I believe that what God is telling us is that so long as we are working and doing his will we need not worry about where our next meal is coming from. This doesn't mean that if I sit on my butt all day long that food is just going to miraculously arrive at my door just as we sit down to supper, but rather as the raven does I must go about my human business in gathering and storing my food. However, when I have enough, then I should realize that I have enough and put no further thought into the acquisition of worldly goods and stockpiles. 

For the seniors, there may be no more need to store. God will either provide for their small needs or he will call them home to his kingdom. For the rest of us, there is much work here on earth to be done and we will need sustenance to sustain us in our labors, so we ought to get to planting, harvesting, and storing to aid us in that work. Just keep it in proper perspective. We plant, store, and stockpile so that we may sustain our lives in order to do God's work. We do not plant, store, and stockpile simply so that we may have those goods and resources always available to us, for God may call us to his kingdom at any moment.


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## Ernie (Jul 22, 2007)

Oh, let me add something here ...

I sat down about a week ago to read my bible and opened it at random to that passage. I pondered on it for awhile and didn't get it. So I prayed for guidance. That evening as I drove home from where I was I heard a sermon on the radio where the pastor discussed that very passage and what it meant. The next morning I heard a different pastor discussing that very passage and what HE felt it meant. Then the very next day I heard it AGAIN on the radio with a different pastor discussing what he felt it meant. If you recall from your bible studies, whenever Jesus wishes to really make a point, he says it THREE TIMES.

I think it's possible that in addition to God answering my prayer for understanding on that passage, he was also preparing me to answer your question.


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## ovsfarm (Jan 14, 2003)

Don't forget the ant in Proverbs 6:6-11. She is famous for storing up provisions in season for use when bad weather comes.


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## diane (May 4, 2002)

Thanks for sharing that Ernie. I frequently question my motives for being a prepper. I am a "God will move mountains but I have to show up with a shovel" sort of person. I have always been a person who lived by the works of my hands and come from a family that planted and stored from harvest to harvest with a little put back against a crop failure. Personally I feel morally obligated to provide for myself and my family and keep us out of the food lines if it is at all possible.


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## Hobbes (Apr 1, 2008)

informedchristians.com has two great articles on this: God's Provision I & II. They have several case studies from the Bible of God's providing for people, and some people He told to stock up or move. Part II is on the main page feature section, but it has a link to the first part. Both can be found under Articles by the Editor.


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## spiffydave (Mar 19, 2008)

Ernie said:


> Tough one. I'm not sure, but maybe they are talking about Luke 12:24 which says, "Consider the ravens: for they neither sow nor reap; which neither have storehouse nor barn; and God feedeth them: how much more are ye better than the fowls?"
> 
> I'm not a pastor, but here's how I have always interpreting this particular passage.


In the Sermon on the Mount I think it's important to identify who Christ was speaking to. In some cases he was speaking to his disciples and they were called to go and preach without purse or scrip. 

Notice the intro in verse 22:



> 22 And he said unto his *disciples*, Therefore I say unto you, Take no thought for your life, what ye shall eat; neither for the body, what ye shall put on.
> 23 The life is more than meat, and the body is more than raiment.


That is not the advice he gives to everyone and I think he expects us to be concerned about providing for our families and being good stewards with the blessings we have been given.

Just my .2 cents on the matter.


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## pickapeppa (Jan 1, 2005)

What number are we on?

14. It will slow down our use of fossil fuels likewise improving air quality, this is especially good for those prone to asthma.


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## timfromohio (Jun 19, 2007)

From a Christian standpoint, a good justification for preparedness comes from Jim Rawles survivalblog site:

Clarification on Christianity and Physical Preparedness
I occasionally get e-mails from SurvivalBlog readers, asking about how I can justify active preparedness in light of my Christian faith. Some of them cite the "Lilies of the Field" passage in Matthew 6:25-34 (KJV):
"Therefore I say unto you, Take no thought for your life, what ye shall eat, or what ye shall drink; nor yet for your body, what ye shall put on. Is not the life more than meat, and the body than raiment? Behold the fowls of the air: for they sow not, neither do they reap, nor gather into barns; yet your heavenly Father feedeth them. Are ye not much better than they? Which of you by taking thought can add one cubit unto his stature? And why take ye thought for raiment? Consider the lilies of the field, how they grow; they toil not, neither do they spin: And yet I say unto you, That even Solomon in all his glory was not arrayed like one of these. Wherefore, if God so clothe the grass of the field, which to day is, and to morrow is cast into the oven, [shall he] not much more [clothe] you, O ye of little faith? Therefore take no thought, saying, What shall we eat? or, What shall we drink? or, Wherewithal shall we be clothed? (For after all these things do the Gentiles seek for your heavenly Father knoweth that ye have need of all these things. But seek ye first the kingdom of God, and his righteousness; and all these things shall be added unto you. Take therefore no thought for the morrow: for the morrow shall take thought for the things of itself. Sufficient unto the day [is] the evil thereof."

In my view, people are misinterpreting these verses. These are verses about worry, not about work or preparedness. Never does the Bible teach that we should laze about and not provide for our families. Earning our daily bread is the Godly way to live. We are taught not to be lazy or dependent on others. Yes, we are to trust in God's providence, but nowhere do the scriptures absolve us of the responsibility to work or to save up for lean times. Consider these four verses from the book of Proverbs:

He that tilleth his land shall be satisfied with bread: but he that followeth vain [persons is] void of understanding.. Proverbs 12:11, KJV

In all labour there is profit: but the talk of the lips [tendeth] only to penury.(Poverty.) Proverbs 14:23, KJV

The desire of the slothful killeth him; for his hands refuse to labour. Proverbs 21:25, KJV

The thoughts of the diligent [tend] only to plenteousness; but of every one [that is] hasty only to want. Proverbs 21:5, KJV

Food Storage

The Bible encourages storing food. Look at Gen. 41:47-49 (KJV): "And in the seven plenteous years the earth brought forth by handfuls.Gen 41:48 And he gathered up all the food of the seven years, which were in the land of Egypt, and laid up the food in the cities: the food of the field, which [was] round about every city, laid he up in the same.And Joseph gathered corn as the sand of the sea, very much, until he left numbering; for [it was] without number." And then see Gen. 41:53-57: "And the seven years of plenteousness, that was in the land of Egypt, were ended.And the seven years of dearth began to come, according as Joseph had said: and the dearth was in all lands; but in all the land of Egypt there was bread. And when all the land of Egypt was famished, the people cried to Pharaoh for bread: and Pharaoh said unto all the Egyptians, Go unto Joseph; what he saith to you, do.And the famine was over all the face of the earth: And Joseph opened all the storehouses, and sold unto the Egyptians; and the famine waxed sore in the land of Egypt.And all countries came into Egypt to Joseph for to buy [corn]; because that the famine was [so] sore in all lands."

The preceding is a good example that illustrates the need for food storage. As I write this in 2008, a growing portion of the world is already experiencing famine. You should recognize that famine could just a well come to stalk America, Europe, the British Isles, and Australia. (The regions with the largest SurvivalBlog readership.) It is prudent and Biblically supported to stock up during good times in anticipation of lean times.

Prov. 6:6-15 (KJV): "Go to the ant, thou sluggard; consider her ways, and be wise: Which having no guide, overseer, or ruler, Provideth her meat in the summer, and gathereth her food in the harvest. How long wilt thou sleep, O sluggard? When wilt thou arise out of thy sleep? Yet a little sleep, a little slumber, a little folding of the hands to sleep: So shall thy poverty come as one that travelleth, and thy want as an armed man. A naughty person, a wicked man, walketh with a forward mouth. He winketh with his eyes, he speaketh with his feet, he teacheth with his fingers; Forwardness is in his heart, he deviseth mischief continually; he soweth discord. Therefore shall his calamity come suddenly; suddenly shall he be broken without remedy."

The lessons from scripture are clear: Don't be lazy and lax. Store up in good times for future lean times. Consider this: "[There is] treasure to be desired and oil in the dwelling of the wise; but a foolish man spendeth it up." - Prov. 21:20 (KJV)

And ponder this Old Testament passage: Psalm 34:9-10 (KJV): "O fear the LORD, ye his saints: for [there is] no want to them that fear him.Psa 34:10 (KJV) "The young lions do lack, and suffer hunger: but they that seek the LORD shall not want any good [thing]." And then look at this New Testament passage:, from 1 Timothy 5:8 (KJV): "But if any provide not for his own, and specially for those of his own house, he hath denied the faith, and is worse than an infidel."

One of the many names of God is Jehovah Jireh, which means God Who Provides. As a Christian, I believe that God will provide for his covenant people. I believe that one of the many gifts that the God has provided is a conviction, by the Holy Spirit, to be well prepared. I realize that we are only on Earth for about 80 trips around the sun, and that is just the twinkling of an eye versus eternity. Where we end up after this brief life is far, far more important in the grand scheme of things. We will spend eternity either in heaven or in hell. But how we spend our +/-80 year life on Earth is up to us. (And the most important thing that we do in the is life is make ourselves right with God, though his Grace, to accepting eternal life in heaven. But stepping back to this temporal world: The Bible makes it very clear that we are to be good stewards of the blessings that God provides us. I therefore feel strongly convicted to not just share the gospel of Christ, but also to physically prepare for my own family, and store extra to dispense as charity. The bottom line: I can't continue to share the gospel if I starve to the point of achieving room temperature!


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## timfromohio (Jun 19, 2007)

Part 2:


Self Defense
Other readers question how I can justify owning guns for self-defense. Some Mennonites, for example, eschew all means self defense and decry even the willingness to defend oneself or one's loved ones. That, in my opinion is taking "turning the other cheek" (Luke 6:29) to an extreme that is not scripturally founded. 

Exodus 22:2 provides Biblical justification for killing someone if he intends to forcibly rob or kill another man: " If a thief be found breaking up, and be smitten that he die, [there shall] no blood [be shed] for him." Exodus 22:2 (KJV) 

And Jesus teaches that it is wise to be armed, in Luke 22:35-36 (KJV): "And he said unto them, When I sent you without purse, and scrip, and shoes, lacked ye any thing? And they said, Nothing.
Then said he unto them, But now, he that hath a purse, let him take [it], and likewise [his] scrip: and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one."

In an article titled: What Does The Bible Say About Gun Control? Larry Pratt keenly observed the difference between self-defense and vengeance: 

Resisting an attack is not to be confused with taking vengeance which is the exclusive domain of God (Rom. 12:19). This has been delegated to the civil magistrate, who, as we read in Romans 13:4, ". . . is God&#8217;s minister to you for good. But if you do evil, be afraid; for he does not bear the sword in vain; for he is God&#8217;s minister, an avenger to execute wrath on him who practices evil."

Private vengeance means one would stalk down a criminal after one&#8217;s life is no longer in danger as opposed to defending oneself during an attack. It is this very point that has been confused by Christian pacifists who would take the passage in the Sermon on the Mount about turning the other cheek (which prohibits private vengeance) into a command to falter before the wicked.

Let us consider also that the Sixth Commandment tells us: "Thou shall not murder." In the chapters following, God gave to Moses many of the situations which require a death penalty. God clearly has not told us never to kill. He has told us not to murder, which means we are not to take an innocent life. Consider also that the civil magistrate is to be a terror to those who practice evil. This passage does not in any way imply that the role of law enforcement is to prevent crimes or to protect individuals from criminals. The magistrate is a minister to serve as "an avenger to execute wrath on him who practices evil" (Rom. 13:4).

Jesus taught both to turn the other cheek and to be well-armed to defend oneself. The important factor is having the wisdom to know when to employ either approach depending on the circumstances. I pray, for wisdom, discernment, and discretion, daily. I don't seek out trouble, and in fact I have moved my family to a remote, lightly populated region in good part to avoid trouble. But if unavoidable trouble comes my way, I want to have the option of resisting force with force. And I only have that option if I am armed and trained. 

Some critics of armed preparedness cite Matthew 26:52-54 (KJV), which descries how Jesus responded when Peter cut off the ear of a high priest's servant, using a sword: "Then said Jesus unto him, Put up again thy sword into his place: for all they that take the sword shall perish with the sword. Thinkest thou that I cannot now pray to my Father, and he shall presently give me more than twelve legions of angels? But how then shall the scriptures be fulfilled, that thus it must be?"

In context, Jesus is telling Peter that it would be suicidal to fight in that particular situation, since they were quite outnumbered. And of course Jesus knew it was in God's plan for him to be arrested, tried, crucified, and resurrected. Jesus told Peter to put his sword in its place &#8211;which was back in his belt. Jesus was telling Peter in effect that "there is a time to fight, and this, my friend, isn't it." He didn't command him to "throw that sword away", or "surrender it", or to "stop carrying it". After all, according to Luke, Jesus had just recently ordered the disciples to arm themselves. The reason for the arms was obviously to protect their own lives when traveling--not to protect His own life, which He intended to sacrifice, to pay for our sins, once and for all.

The Old testament teaches both to be armed, and to be trained. We read in Psalm 144:1:

Blessed [be] the LORD my strength,
which teacheth my hands to war, 
[and] my fingers to fight:

Yes, as Christians our battles are mainly spiritual, but we must also be prepared to defend our lives, and the lives of our loved ones, against evildoers.

Charity

Charity--both in time of plenty and in times of disaster--is a Christian responsibility with its roots in the Old Testament tradition of Tzedaka. This responsibility--particularly for the support of widows and orphans--was repeated in the New Testament, such as in Acts 11:27-30: "And in these days came prophets from Jerusalem unto Antioch. And there stood up one of them named Agabus, and signified by the Spirit that there should be great dearth throughout all the world: which came to pass in the days of Claudius Caesar. Then the disciples, every man according to his ability, determined to send relief unto the brethren which dwelt in Judaea: Which also they did, and sent it to the elders by the hands of Barnabas and Saul."

The Biblical approach to survivalism is to avoid trouble, but to be ready for it nonetheless. And when trouble does come, have extra stores on hand, so that you can dispense copious charity. Give until it hurts!



A Key Verse
"A prudent man foreseeth the evil, and hideth himself: but the simple pass on, and are punished." - Proverbs 22:3 (KJV)



My Prayer For You
The following is one of my favorite psalms, which is particularly appropriate for folks that are interested in preparedness. 
May Almighty God put you in the right place at the right time, with the right friends whom you can count on. 

I'll close with one of my favorite Psalms:

Psalm 91 (KJV)
He that dwelleth in the secret place of the most High shall abide under the shadow of the Almighty.
I will say of the LORD, [He is] my refuge and my fortress: my God; in him will I trust.
Surely he shall deliver thee from the snare of the fowler, [and] from the noisome pestilence.
He shall cover thee with his feathers, and under his wings shalt thou trust: his truth [shall be thy] shield and buckler.
Thou shalt not be afraid for the terror by night; [nor] for the arrow [that] flieth by day;
[Nor] for the pestilence [that] walketh in darkness; [nor] for the destruction [that] wasteth at noonday.
A thousand shall fall at thy side, and ten thousand at thy right hand; [but] it shall not come nigh thee.
Only with thine eyes shalt thou behold and see the reward of the wicked.
Because thou hast made the LORD, [which is] my refuge, [even] the most High, thy habitation;
There shall no evil befall thee, neither shall any plague come nigh thy dwelling.
For He shall give his angels charge over thee, to keep thee in all thy ways.
They shall bear thee up in [their] hands, lest thou dash thy foot against a stone.
Thou shalt tread upon the lion and adder: the young lion and the dragon shalt thou trample under feet.
Because he hath set his love upon me, therefore will I deliver him: I will set him on high, because he hath known my name.
He shall call upon me, and I will answer him: I [will be] with him in trouble; I will deliver him, and honour him.
With long life will I satisfy him, and shew him my salvation.


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## pickapeppa (Jan 1, 2005)

A little interesting footnote I picked up a few years back attending a Mennonite Sunday school service,

It was taught the 'turn the other cheek' referred to putting the offender in a position where he would have to make a choice between doing you harm and doing himself harm.

The historical details referred to the common practice of cleaning one's bottom with the left hand, and slapping of the face with the right hand. To turn the other cheek meant putting the slapper in the position of having to slap with his left hand, which was considered a very serious offense.

I found this to be a quite interesting and thought provoking interpretation.


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## LamiPub (Nov 10, 2006)

This subject has come up at times in the Bible Fellowship forum. In case anyone is interested here was my response. If it is ok I have also provided the link in case anyone would like to read the various responses from other Christian homesteaders for different applications on the topic.



> _My take on all the scriptures referencing to be prepared, like the virgins and lamps of oil etc. is those are all talking about us being prepared SPIRITUALLY. All the verses are telling us to hold fast to our faith and to spend the end times spreading the Gospel message. We are to be spending our time sharing our faith, feeding and nurturing our faith, guarding our faith. This has nothing to do with storing up food and such. We need to see the urgency to live and share His Message while we are here on this earth.
> 
> That being said, as for storing and preparing for our physical needs in hard times...a wise man/woman trusts in the Lord and it is God pleasing to use the knowledge and resources He has given us to prepare for lean times. Remember how God revealed to Joseph a drought was coming and he stored up the grain for the lean years? As a woman my favorite passage on storing and prepping is this:
> 
> ...


http://www.homesteadingtoday.com/showthread.php?t=249728&highlight=christian+prepping


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## NoClue (Jan 22, 2007)

Food is one of my pet causes in good times or bad, as is localization.

While it's easy to mock the eating habits of the poor, the truth is that for a long time, it's been cheaper both in terms of money and time to eat badly than to eat healthily, at least on the front-side (there are the medical costs to consider on the back-side). Somehow, someone figured out how to keep people malnourished but well-fed at the same time. Mostly this was accomplished by severing the connection between food consumption and food production, and finally from food preparation. 

Time is the ultimate commodity for most people and the modern lifestyle is designed to see that most of it is applied to revenue flow. Take the revenue out of the equation, and most people will go back to living with their time and be better off for it.

Personally, what I'd like to see come back is front porch, or kitchen, or living room music - real people playing real instruments and real songs.


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## Guest (Mar 5, 2009)

NoClue said:


> While it's easy to mock the eating habits of the poor, the truth is that for a long time, it's been cheaper both in terms of money and time to eat badly than to eat healthily


It's actually possible to eat healthy MUCH cheaper than it is to eat unhealthy. People have forgotten how.


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## spiffydave (Mar 19, 2008)

ladycat said:


> It's actually possible to eat healthy MUCH cheaper than it is to eat unhealthy. People have forgotten how.


That's absolutely true - it just requires more time and planning - something that many people are loathe to do.

McDonald's has their double cheeseburgers for $1.39 a piece. Cheap and filling, though you'll feel like complete crap after eating them not to mention what they'll do to your health over time.

People are lazy and fast food vendors will try to make it easy and cheap to eat poorly.

I heard a radio commercial yesterday from Qdoba Mexican Grill that stigmatized people who brought their lunch as freaky "cat lady" types and said you wouldn't be popular at work unless you went out to lunch every day like "regular" people.

Sick.


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## casusbelli (Jan 6, 2009)

Great thread, Ernie. And the responses are great. 
I think the story of Joseph as Second-in-command in Egypt, and the seven years of plenty followed by seven years of famine is evidence enough that believers should prepare when they see bad times approaching. Recent events have also reminded me of Christ's analogy to the pangs of labor, increasing as the Day approacheth. 
I appreciate your faith. I've been busy 'prepping' physically, but have neglected the spiritual. Thanks for the reminder.
BTW, I tried starting a very similar thread on my wordpress blog in September. I listed the end of subdivision sprawl ruining irreplacable farmland as a major bonus to a collapse, among others.


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## firegirl969 (Nov 3, 2008)

Thanks to Ernie, TimfromOhio, spiffydave, and lamipub for the excellent posts. I am printing them and reading them at the center next week. Blessings to all, firegirl


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## texican (Oct 4, 2003)

pickapeppa said:


> Only one problem there Tex, asceticism has no room for rolling in the good times.


I know.... It's sort of like people wishing for world peace. Never going to happen.

People that are accustomed to, and addicted to the light, are not willingly going to go into the darkness.

Laissez Les Bon Temps Roulez


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## NoClue (Jan 22, 2007)

ladycat said:


> It's actually possible to eat healthy MUCH cheaper than it is to eat unhealthy. People have forgotten how.


It's possible, but it's not easy. It's harder still when you factor in the time considerations. It's harder still if you're single or just a couple.

I became single after 13 years in 2002 and had to set up a household from scratch on a diminished income. I chose to cook because that's who I am, but crunching the numbers, I could have actually saved money by eating out - and that's just in terms of my weekly grocery bill and doesn't count the investment in pots, pans, spices, cook books, and other utensils. I don't remember the exact details, but I could have eaten 2 meals/day for about $6/day where as home cooking was costing me $7 & change per day (weekly groceries divided by seven, subtracting for non-groceries). 

Granted, I could have eaten much simpler fare. Probably I could have found a cheaper place to shop. But basic foods take longer to cook. I worked 10 hour days on average; had somewhere between 2 - 3 hours of commute time; had to walk the dog; and tend the rest of the house and life. Frequently it was 8PM before I even got to think about cooking. Supper was always meat + vegetable + bulk starch in sufficient quatnitty that I could take the left overs for lunch the next day. I did more complex cooking on the weekends, but on weekdays, fast was essential. Life was hard, but it got better.

I'm always and everywhere opposed to the attitude that poverty is the result of some moral failure on the part of the impoverished. Certainly this is sometimes the case, but these are only a fraction of the wide spectrum of impoverished humanity. I'm one of those who managed to succeed despite my origins, and while I worked extremely hard to do so, looking back it's easy to see dozens of points where one bad break could have derailed me or set me back for years. I pray to God that I'm never so arrogant or sure of my own superiority that I forget that I was once one of the unwashed and impoverished mass.


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## bowdonkey (Oct 6, 2007)

Amen, Noclue, I've been in that same boat. I'm also convinced it wiil be to my advantage to spend whatever resources I have to keep someone else from getting into that boat.


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## Txsteader (Aug 22, 2005)

How many of us have felt compelled to stock up? I, personally, have felt the need to prepare for decades, without fully understanding why, just that I needed to be independent of the 'system'. Only recently have I felt compelled to stock up, and then on a much smaller scale than some here. In my house, God has given us what we need and nothing more (treasures). Beyond that, He has given us this land, these tools and the wisdom to survive and that I only need put my trust in Him.

God has plans for each of us according to His will. He has always warned His people when trouble is ahead and told them how to prepare. If we've felt strongly compelled to stock up, then I trust it's been God's way of warning us.


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## ditchmedic (Mar 2, 2008)

I too have felt led into this lifestyle and prepping not too long < 2 years after becoming a Christian. I have no worry about the almost certain financial collapse, because I know that God will take care of me and my family. Whether that care is to provide through my labor or to be with Him. The most important prep for anyone I believe is a spiritual prep, and not idol worship. Look at a lot of David's decedents and their worship of the asherah pole's and the baal idols. That seems like extreme idolatry, but society is full of idolaters. The attitude you have towards your preps could be the difference between idolatry and just providing for yourselves and your family through His grace.


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## FourDeuce (Jun 27, 2002)

Anyone wanting a return to the "good old days" might want to take a good look at what the "good old days" were REALLY like. Yes, there were some good things about them, but there were plenty of bad things, too. Living to the ripe old age of 47 doesn't sound like something too many people now would want to return to.
There's an interesting book on the subject. It's The Good Old Days, They Were Terrible, by Otto L. Bettmann.:lookout:


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## Freeholder (Jun 19, 2004)

Ernie, I really appreciate the Biblical component of your messages. 

I've been accused of worrying because I stock up (worrying is a sin in the Bible); in fact I stock up so I'll be prepared for emergencies, and won't *have* to worry! I totally trust the Lord, but He never said that we can sit around and wait for others to hand stuff to us, something that has happened in all these big natural disasters our nation has seen over the last few years. In some cases, all the preps in the world wouldn't have helped, as people's homes were blown away or flooded out (although if they'd been prepared to 'bug-out' it might have done them some good). But in many cases, unprepared multitudes have overwhelmed the emergency services infrastructure, asking for things they shouldn't have needed, things they should have been prepared to supply for themselves. 

Something that we need to keep in mind is that the way the majority of people live in this country now is NOT the norm! It is NOT the norm for people to keep almost no food in their houses, and to go shopping every single day in order to have something to eat! The NORM is to put food by in season, enough to last until the next crop comes in. That is something that has been lost in this culture (I can't say this country, because it has crossed boundaries to many other countries). So when you are stocking up enough food to last a year, YOU are the one who is normal, and the people who object are the ones who are nuts, LOL!

Back on topic -- good things that could come from the current difficulties? Honestly, I'm having a really hard time thinking of any, because I think most people are still seriously under-estimating the severity of what still lies ahead. One good thing could be that, as Christians face persecution in the developed world, we'll know more clearly who is really a believer in Jesus Christ. Another good thing, the one that gives me hope through all the mess, is that we are another day closer to the return of Jesus Christ with each day that passes!

Kathleen


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## pickapeppa (Jan 1, 2005)

CNN covered tent cities in Sacramento tonight. They cover an area of several square miles in an industrialized region of the city. There was no mention of widespread crime, and a few have managed to pull themselves out of it finding jobs nearby and getting apartments. The campers expect to be joined by hundreds of others in the near future. Homeless shelters are full. They have no choice but to set up tents.

How many people in Russia murdered others for food or supplies after their collapse?


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## Ernie (Jul 22, 2007)

I think that people are basically good. Even the worst of them are cowardly and lazy. An evil, highly motivated man with a lot of energy and drive is exceptionally rare. I believe that desperate people banding together will be more the way of things than the zombie hordes or Mad Max scenarios that some envision. 

The downside is that I see a government bent on total domination of us all, and I see that there are going to be too many people for the food production capacity we're going to have. I think a lot of those "basically good" people are going to starve to death under the well-meaning eye of the U.S. government. I don't intend to be one of them.

If you live by the basic tenets of Christianity (regardless of whether or not you are a Christian), then I think you're going to do pretty well, regardless of circumstances. Those tenets are asceticism, humility, and love for your fellow man. 

Be *ascetic* in your lifestyle, acquiring only what you need to get by and learning to live a minimalist lifestyle.

Be *humble* in your approach to the world, knowing that you are a part of nature and not its master, and that you are no better than any other man on the face of it and undeserving of wealth and glory.

Be *loving* towards your fellow man and do not seek to dominate him with your will, nor enslave him for your own means, nor to allow him to suffer through your own action or inaction. 

If we could just manage those things, then our state of government, our economic situation, or our type of society would be meaningless, for it would be much kinder and gentler world on the face of it.


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## catcrazy (Jan 30, 2003)

Amen amen amen. 

I'm not a Christian but what you just wrote, Ernie, is wonderful. You are right on. Good tenets to live by. 

Cat


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## pickapeppa (Jan 1, 2005)

That's how I see it, Ernie. Even in the event of a collapse, we still are a nation of laws, full of law abiding citizens. A financial collapse isn't going to radically change the nature of a person or society overnight. Prolonged hardship could lead to that, but I think it would take something more traumatic, like a civil war or foreign invasion to push people over the edge.


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## adamtheha (Mar 14, 2007)

Ernie said:


> 5. A stronger, healthier economy may be rebuilt from the ground up and based on actual products that are grown, crafted, or harvested from the world around us, instead of the parasitical economy based on fiat money that has led to our current plight.


I don't see this happening. The people who profit from pilfering the current economy aren't going to stand for a "real" recovery based on the 10 commandments. It's going to be cashless, with a chip in your forehead, or you can't buy or sell! IMHO anyway.


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## texican (Oct 4, 2003)

pickapeppa said:


> That's how I see it, Ernie. Even in the event of a collapse, we still are a nation of laws, full of law abiding citizens. A financial collapse isn't going to radically change the nature of a person or society overnight. Prolonged hardship could lead to that, but I think it would take something more traumatic, like a civil war or foreign invasion to push people over the edge.


I'd like to believe that, too. But, I think it's prudent to follow the Boy Scout mantra... Be Prepared.

In most of my machinations, I tend to hope for the Best, but prepare for the Worst. To not do so, is not wise.

Law and Order, and Civilization are a very thin veneer... As long as it's available, we'll all enjoy peace and prosperity. No country is more than three days away from a revolution... Even soccer moms will be rioting if there babies go without food for three days.

I think a week without any commerce, any money, any food, electricity, and with no hope of it returning, would turn the nicest people in the world (grasshoppers) into a raging machine, searching out all of the last crumbs (held by ants).

When you tell 95% of the population, that everything they know is wrong, that will be a shock. When the shock is over, they'll get mad.

.........methinks it's time to put in my 30 minutes minimum today in the garden.... just talked to my farming auntie, and they put their sweet corn in yesterday (about four days earlier than normal..... the red oak leaves aren't big as squirrels ear's yet [the accepted time of planting corn])


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## Ernie (Jul 22, 2007)

Curse you, texican! I'm still fiddling with cold frames and trying to keep my turnip sprouts from freezing up here in the frozen north.

When y'all are warm, we are freezing. When y'all are dry, we are getting washed away. It's like a whole other country up here.

As to the rest, I don't really know what's going to happen. I have my very human doubts and fears, but I try to just concentrate on my work. Plant the seeds. Deliver the newborn calves and goats. Hatch some more chickens. Increase the number of beehives. That's wealth generation at its most basic, and I think it will keep me afloat.


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## pickapeppa (Jan 1, 2005)

Today is a day for hip waders. Is it dry enough up there to actually get in the garden? We're still water logged from the last rain spell. The chicken coop is flooding again and wreaks of ammonia. The ground temp in the cold frames just reached 50 this week, so it's time to start sprouting some cool weather crops out there.

There comes a time when a person needs to make lemonade from the lemons. It can be just as entertaining playing with nature as it is to contemplate the nature of society in it's various incarnations.

Time to make a fat omelet, and then boil down some more sap.


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## Ernie (Jul 22, 2007)

This time of year I'm still working in the raised beds and cold frames. Everything has to be covered to hold in heat and insulate from the frost. Plus we may end up getting one or two more heavy snowfalls. So I stick to cabbages, spinach, and turnips as frost-hardy plants.

Bank up some earth around that chicken coop and it'll divert the water. I had to do that with mine. The ducks thought a flooded coop was fine and dandy, but the chickens didn't appreciate monsoon season.


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## pickapeppa (Jan 1, 2005)

So you sprout them in the cold frames, or sprout them in the house and harden off in cold frames?

How many cold frames?

I've got mine sprouted in the house, but will be moving them to the cold frames soon.


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## Ernie (Jul 22, 2007)

I have 4 cold frames covering 256 square feet total. I sprout in the cold frame and proceed from there. The cold frames are in reality just raised beds and once the weather warms up suitably I will remove the glass and store it in the garden shed until fall when it will be needed to extend the growing season once more.

I want to purchase an actual greenhouse, but I have yet to do so. Maybe this is the year.


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## pickapeppa (Jan 1, 2005)

Is the sprouting done in pots or in the ground?

That's a lot of cold frame space. The only thing different a greenhouse is going to give you is an extra month early on sprouting. But it needs a babysitter, and all it takes is one day off and every freezes, leaving you to start all over again. Although you can also winter over potted items requiring a zone 6 or 7 winter season. It all depends on the weather, if it's cloudy and cold you have to supplement heat to keep things alive. It can get pretty costly on electricity.

I haven't had a lot of luck with it, and am battling through a discouraged phase on that one yet again. Something always seems to happen to kill everything off. Right now it's the flooding. Looks like we're in for an expensive drainage rerouting before we can move ahead with other plans. Grrr.

Here comes more rain.  The yard is a virtual lagoon, and the field out back is a pond with a raging river at the narrow points.

On the upside, I did have one thing make it through this awful Siberian winter and that was spinach seedlings. They were seeded in the cold frames in late October and are now setting out their first true leaves. Think I'll start some cabbages in pots in there today, what's left of it.


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## Ernie (Jul 22, 2007)

Sprout in the ground. It's all stuff that can't be transplanted easily. I seed turnips and spinach in about midwinter and then usually by this time of year it's starting to sprout under the glass.


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## SnakeRiver (Feb 7, 2009)

I continue to be jealous. I am a month away from having sufficient soil warmth and daylight for a cold frame to help.


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## pickapeppa (Jan 1, 2005)

SnakeRiver said:


> I continue to be jealous. I am a month away from having sufficient soil warmth and daylight for a cold frame to help.


What's your altitude and zone?

The grass is finally greening up here.


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## SnakeRiver (Feb 7, 2009)

Zone 4 and right at 5100 feet. Spring lasts 3 weeks and then it is summer. 

Last year I taught summer school and our last good snow was during it on June 11th. I was hoping for the first ever summer school snow day (yes, I am still ten years old at heart!). 

I could shovel spot and do some building or I can just heat my greenhouse. A cold frame would allow me to up my production however.


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## 7.62mmFMJ (Nov 19, 2008)

We can't plant anything outside until after Memorial day. 

Similar to Snake River but a little higher at 6000 feet.

We will start planting in the heated greenhouse probably at the end of next week. Most of that planting will be producing before we can even get the outdoor garden planted.


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## pickapeppa (Jan 1, 2005)

It's still early. As long as you have enough land, timing isn't as important as if you have a small area that needs planted successively to produce the same amount.

We don't have lots of space, so need to coordinate plantings in a way that stretches the seasons.

Having to cover things outside can be a bit of a pain if you get lots of wind like we do here. The wind and freezing weather don't stop while you sleep at night. One dip into deep freeze territory along with a brisk wind that uncovers your protected plants can kill off a lot of work and delay progress significantly. It's much nicer to have more land and not have to rely on these extra inputs.


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## 7.62mmFMJ (Nov 19, 2008)

Our growing season is pretty short. Last year we had a freeze in late August and it all went kaput.


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