# STILL can not get weight on this horse!



## ErinP (Aug 23, 2007)

She's 20 this year and wintered hard. I took her in for a float this spring and she'd had some points, so I thought surely she'd start gaining this summer on good grass. Particularly since we have more grass than we know what to do with this year, due to the wet spring/summer we've had.

Nothing doing. She just got _skinnier_ all summer. But, she's also my 9 year old's 4H horse, so I thought surely once summer show season ended, she'd start catching up. Still no improvement. 

She's on pasture 24/7. She also gets a pound of black oil sunflower seeds, top dressed with Weight Builder (can't recall brand) and about a quarter cup of veggie oil to bind it together better so she doesn't just let the weight builder drop to the bottom of the bucket. 

We've been doing this particular regimen for about 3 weeks and there is no visible improvement beyond the fact that her _coat_ is gorgeous! lol
Yes, she's wormed. 


What should I try next?? Two pounds of BOSS instead of one? (she barely finishes one most nights, but I could try hitting her twice a day)

I just want to get some weight on her before winter!


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## SFM in KY (May 11, 2002)

I just went back to the 'lick tubs' for weight gain/supplemental feed that you can get for horses. Used to use them years ago with the mare herd out on winter pasture but it came in 250 lb tubs then so not useful for a single horse.

They now make them in 40 lb tubs for one or two horses and I got one for the stallion that dropped so much weight when he was out with the mares and running constantly as he wasn't picking up the lost weight as fast as I thought he should.

I imagine most feed stores carry some brand ... I just asked for a "molasses lick tub for horses" and this is what they had. It has trace minerals, fairly high protein and high fat content, with a molasses binder.

It has definitely worked on the stallion.


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## olivehill (Aug 17, 2009)

Wormed how? What dates? With which drugs? Has she had a FEC? 

She has no balanced source of nutrition in her diet. I'd start there, not up the BOSS.


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## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

What have you dewormed her with? 

Is there a reason why you're using BOSS and not a high fat compete grain? I'd also add stabilized rice bran, increase the oil, and/or well soaked beet pulp. I'd feed her three times a day if she has a problem finishing one large meal.


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## Lazy J (Jan 2, 2008)

Move to a high fat feed, top dress her feed with 2 to 6 ounces of rice bran oil, make sure she has access to a quality mineral (either loose or a tub).


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## Lisa in WA (Oct 11, 2004)

The one thing that worked with our aged pony gelding when he couldn't keep on weight was using the probiotic, "Fastrack"
It was recommended by our feed store owner and I was skeptical but tried it. It really worked! The old guy really started putting on weight.

http://www.smartpakequine.com/fastrack-probiotic-pack-1374p.aspx


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## offthegrid (Aug 11, 2009)

If you have her on good grass and she's still losing weight -- I'd think worms, ulcers, or pain....or all of the above?

I agree with the questions above -- dewormed when and with what? Have you had a fecal done?

I'd switch from BOSS to a senior or high fat grain with BOSS on top if you want. I would try treating for ulcers -- you can use something like Neighlox which is basically an antacid and see if it helps. Much cheaper than GastroGuard but you might need to move to the GG if the antacid helps a lot -- I don't think it will cure ulcers, just make them a little more comfortable with ulcers.

Maybe adding alfalfa hay twice a day; would help with ulcers and most horses love it....

At 20 she might be arthritic....and pain can cause weight loss. Maybe having the vet or chiro give her a once over? If you suspect pain, putting her on bute for a few days might help you decide if her behavior changes....but bute is hard on the belly so I wouldn't keep her on it unless you have to....


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## wolffeathers (Dec 20, 2010)

My line of thought would be: Deworming, Sandclear(if sand is an issue), switching to a Senior feed, and Probiotics.


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## akane (Jul 19, 2011)

BOSS has more fat and kcals than grain mixes or pellets and they have no risk of founder, colic, etc... from feeding too much so I see no reason to cut out the BOSS. I might add a pound of something else and feed 1 lb BOSS morning and 1lb feed mix designed for weight gain in the evening. You might also consider beet pulp which could be mixed with any bran you also want to add. It can replace a lot of their hay and supposedly helps put on or keep off weight better than hay. The probiotic isn't a bad idea. Also I would consider getting hulled BOSS and feeding just the kernels. It would be easier to digest for an older horse who's teeth and digestive tract might not be in good enough shape to crush and digest the hulls and the hull cuts the protein amount pretty much in half. It is a bit more expensive than regular BOSS though.


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## lamoncha lover (Mar 1, 2009)

I have found good hay, soaked beat pulp pellets, soaked alf/timothy pellets with 1 cup of rice bran and a little bit of all grain has packed the pounds on my mares.
I had started just adding beat pulp..I love it. It adds weight and a nice bloom to their coats. Overtime I have added all the other stuff. So maybe try some beat pulp[ and rice bran.


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## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

akane said:


> BOSS has more fat and kcals than grain mixes or pellets and they have no risk of founder, colic, etc... from feeding too much so I see no reason to cut out the BOSS. I might add a pound of something else and feed 1 lb BOSS morning and 1lb feed mix designed for weight gain in the evening. You might also consider beet pulp which could be mixed with any bran you also want to add. It can replace a lot of their hay and supposedly helps put on or keep off weight better than hay. The probiotic isn't a bad idea. Also I would consider getting hulled BOSS and feeding just the kernels. It would be easier to digest for an older horse who's teeth and digestive tract might not be in good enough shape to crush and digest the hulls and the hull cuts the protein amount pretty much in half. It is a bit more expensive than regular BOSS though.


I'm not familar with feeding BOSS and can't find much information through Cornell (my go to source) can you suggest some links, please?


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## homstdr74 (Jul 4, 2011)

Sometimes horses can get themselves into a state where their cells aren't absorbing the nutrients correctly. We've had that happen a couple of times---the horses get skinny even tho' they are eating. We have always had good luck giving them an electrolyte, because in a matter of days they are starting to sleek out and gain a bit. 

I just mix up about half a quart of apple cider vinegar with a couple of tablespoons of baking soda and a couple of handfuls of flaked molasses, all mixed together, put into a gallon milk jug and add water to the top, making a gallon. Feed about a quarter of it at a time. It's worth a try and won't hurt anything.

Of course there are also commercial electrolytes.


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## Oakshire_Farm (Dec 4, 2008)

If anyone remembers my Saddlebred that I had posted a while back about him choking.... we he had lost a pile of weight, like all ribs showing tail head sticking out. We the vets had run out of suggestions, because every time I gave him grain he was choking, and he did not like alfalfa. The vets only last suggestion was that if he continued to choke was to put him down. We could not get him to put weight on..... Well at the beginning of August, he had been on grass all summer and was not picking up. So I decided I needed to get weight on him before winter or I was going to put him down. So I thought I would start introducing grain slowly, the worst case scenario he would choke and we would have to put him down. So I started with Rice Bran and a supplement called Equine Power. I started adding his mineral supplement, and a small amount of beet pulp. He is now putting on the weight on and looking great! 

I have no experience with BOSS but I not recommend Rice Bran to anyone that has weight issues!


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## ErinP (Aug 23, 2007)

--She's not getting any hay. Just pasture. 
--I had her on Senior feed all summer (Purina). There was no improvement. 
--BOSS _is_ a high fat feed and yes, she has access to mineral/salt. Blocks and loose, too, actually.
--Her latest worming was about a month ago. Quest. I can't remember off the top of my head which one is next in the rotation.
--I'm afraid to put out lick tubs because the rest of our horses are air ferns and are fat and sassy on pasture. 
--No, haven't had a fecal yet. 

I'll give the probiotic and electrolytes a try. Sure can't hurt. And see if I can't get her to take some beet pulp with her bucket, too.


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## olivehill (Aug 17, 2009)

So you have her on a typical 8 week rotation?


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## southerngurl (May 11, 2003)

Look into metabolic disorders. While insulin resistance makes a horse fat at first, after years of insulin resistance a horse gets skinny and sugar is just what you don't want. Look at getting your calories from fiber and fat, not so much from high glycemic carbs. Beet pulp with some rice bran would be a good place to start IMO. Your pasture could be too high in sugar already. Avoid red minerals (high in iron which exacerbates metabolic syndrome) and look formminerals with good copper zinc and magnesium content. Consider remission supplement. Variety in diet and excersize are very important for all horses especially when there are metabolic problems. The remission also has probiotics.


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## lamoncha lover (Mar 1, 2009)

although all my girls love their beat pulp now...sevral didn't like it at first and had to develop a taste for it. Now it's their favorite thing.


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## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

ErinP said:


> --She's not getting any hay. Just pasture.
> --I had her on Senior feed all summer (Purina). There was no improvement.
> --BOSS _is_ a high fat feed and yes, she has access to mineral/salt. Blocks and loose, too, actually.
> --Her latest worming was about a month ago. Quest. I can't remember off the top of my head which one is next in the rotation.
> ...


BOSS is not a _complete_ feed, although it does have a ton of calories. How big is the mare and how much Sr feed was she on all summer? IMO, you need to feed a complete feed, keep the BOSS, and add beet pulp or stabilized rice bran. I'd go with the rice bran first as more horses like it, it's not as bulky as beet pulp and you indicated she doesn't always finish her food. You pretty much have to feed this mare at least twice a day, three would be better. How much grass does she have access to? In some areas the grass is pretty much gone by this time of year. She needs hay if the grass is gone. 

ETA: The FastTrack that Lisa indicated is good stuff.

The Quest should have taken care of any encysted small strongyles but a fecal doesn't always show them anyway. A fecal should be done to rule out parasites.


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## ErinP (Aug 23, 2007)

The grass is belly high. If it were gone I would have already moved her to hay. And I know BOSS isn't a complete feed. I said it was high fat. She was getting about three pounds of Senior since it was supplementing pasture. 
Her coat was dull, her hair was coarse. I was not impressed. 
Interestingly, despite the fact that she hasn't gained, the BOSS has made her super-sleek and shiny.

I'll try the rice bran first. I was planning on playing with feed for a couple more weeks to see if I start to get a change then I was going to call the vet and see what his thoughts were.
Yeah, I've already started her on twice-a-days just to make sure she's finishing.


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## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

ErinP said:


> The grass is belly high. If it were gone I would have already moved her to hay. And I know BOSS isn't a complete feed. I said it was high fat. She was getting about three pounds of Senior since it was supplementing pasture.
> Her coat was dull, her hair was coarse. I was not impressed.
> Interestingly, despite the fact that she hasn't gained, the BOSS has made her super-sleek and shiny.
> 
> ...


Is the grass or weeds belly high? We have to brush hog our pasture because the weeds and crap grass grow and the horses won't touch it... my divas won't touch high over mature grass.

Is that 3 lbs a day or a feeding? The Purina site indicates that a 1000 lb horse should eat 13 lbs a day of Senior for _maintenance_. So, if it's 3 lbs a day that's just not enough feed. I feel the companies indicate too much feed but this mare should be getting at least 6 lbs a day and you may still need to supplement with beet pulp and rice bran.


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## offthegrid (Aug 11, 2009)

Irish Pixie said:


> Is the grass or weeds belly high? We have to brush hog our pasture because the weeds and crap grass grow and the horses won't touch it... my divas won't touch high over mature grass.
> 
> Is that 3 lbs a day or a feeding? The Purina site indicates that a 1000 lb horse should eat 13 lbs a day of Senior for _maintenance_. So, if it's 3 lbs a day that's just not enough feed. I feel the companies indicate too much feed but this mare should be getting at least 6 lbs a day and you may still need to supplement with beet pulp and rice bran.


I agree. Grass for horses should be about 4-6" for good grazing....if you walk through pastures that are belly high you will probably find patches of grass that are grazed to the ground...and the rest never gets eaten. Definitely need to brush hog, poo pick and drag pastures in order to keep them in good grazing shape. And it's not really that they are "divas" as that they aren't really designed to graze on long grass like cows are. If you have air ferns, letting it go is no big deal but if you have a hard keeper you may have to work harder to keep your pastures "grazeable" or feed hay in addition. 

I also agree about the complete feed -- if you have a hard keeper you need to be looking at the top end of the feeding scale. I think BOSS is awesome but I top dress my feed with it and get fabulous, shiny dapples.


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## ErinP (Aug 23, 2007)

Pixie, we _ranch_ for a living. I know the difference between grass and weeds. 
We've had an extremely wet year.



> The Purina site indicates that a 1000 lb horse should eat 13 lbs a day of Senior for maintenance.


If I remember correctly that's when it's the _only_ thing being fed. If it's in addition to hay or pasture, it's considerably less.


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## Rogo (Jan 1, 2006)

Guess I should count my blessings, I've never had a thin equine. My present mount is 23. Looks like HE'S ready to foal! Don't ride much this time of year since the temperatures are in the hundreds. Waiting impatiently until November and hopefully cooler temps to get back to our tough mountain rides!

All my stock roam free on the acreage within the perimeter fence. No pens, no stalls, no corrals. No pasture here in the desert. Central Arizona. It hasn't rained in months. Bermuda and 100% food grade diatomaceous earth (DE) are free choice fed. That's all I've fed these many years to foals thru oldsters. DE prevents sickness and disease and it also deworms.


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## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

ErinP said:


> Pixie, we _ranch_ for a living. I know the difference between grass and weeds.
> We've had an extremely wet year.
> 
> 
> If I remember correctly that's when it's the _only_ thing being fed. If it's in addition to hay or pasture, it's considerably less.


You own a ranch?? I raised _horses_ for a living and know a bit about grazing- horses won't eat very high grass unless they're starving and then it's not easily digested and isn't converted well. Like offthegrid indicated the best grass is 4-6". The easiest way to accomplish this is to brush hog the pasture twice a year. 

The feeding chart for the Purina Sr did not indicate that the amounts were for a no forage diet. Here's a link to the Purina Sr page- http://www.horse.purinamills.com/products/equinefamily/ECMD2-0032702.aspx


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## Ohiogal (Mar 15, 2007)

OK, with the aged horse, you HAVE to consider Cushings. I speak from experience with this....
The insulin resistance thing can really make them drop weight fast. And adding high sugar/high carb feeds is not the best thing for them, it can make them drop weight faster and exhibit other signs of a metabolic disorder. Is the haircoat in good condition - is it longish or not? What about the hoof horn? Is the horse laminitic at all? Is the horse dull and not interested in eating? Any other signs like this?
If you've dewormed it, and that doesn't help, you have to look at the food stuffs, which you obviously have, and since you are feeding a nutritionally high caloric diet already you need to look at having an ACTH test run and see if the horse is borderline Cushings or has Cushings. If it does, then you need to switch to a high protein feed, and start feeding for Cushings. Anything else you do is not going to help and in fact, may set up an episode that the horse can't recover from (laminitis).


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## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

A blood test for Cushings is a good idea. Cushings isn't easy to deal with and often ends badly no matter what you do... I had to have my 31 year old gelding put down last year because of it.

ETA: I hadn't really considered it as the OP didn't indicate the mare was off, odd hair coat, lethargic, etc...


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## olivehill (Aug 17, 2009)

ErinP said:


> Pixie, we _ranch_ for a living. I know the difference between grass and weeds.
> We've had an extremely wet year.
> 
> 
> If I remember correctly that's when it's the _only_ thing being fed. If it's in addition to hay or pasture, it's considerably less.


The bag _does _say to reduce feed according to how much forage the horse is receiving. The problem with that is it's formulated to be fed as a full, complete feed so when you start reducing you start tampering with the nutritional profile. If a horse cannot eat the full amount of senior feed per day then senior feed isn't for him/her. I wouldn't say your horse cannot eat it, but it wasn't eating it. So either put her back on the senior and feed it as it's intended or you could choose something else that is meant to be fed in smaller quantity -- a Ration Balancer might be a fine choice. 

And just as an aside, personally, if I went with a Sr feed I'd go with something other than Purina. 

You didn't respond to my question but I'm going to assume since you said rotation you do mean a traditional, 8 week rotational program and just say that those are incredibly ineffective. Not only is 8 weeks an out-dated and arbitrary mark that has nothing to do with effective management of a parasite load, most rotations include drugs that have serious wide-spread resistance issues. I would strongly encourage you to do some reading on parasite management from more credible, up-to-date sources and to get the mare FEC'd.


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## offthegrid (Aug 11, 2009)

olivehill said:


> The bag _does _say to reduce feed according to how much forage the horse is receiving. The problem with that is it's formulated to be fed as a full, complete feed so when you start reducing you start tampering with the nutritional profile. If a horse cannot eat the full amount of senior feed per day then senior feed isn't for him/her. I wouldn't say your horse cannot eat it, but it wasn't eating it. So either put her back on the senior and feed it as it's intended or you could choose something else that is meant to be fed in smaller quantity -- a Ration Balancer might be a fine choice.


Well, I think the problem with a horse on pasture is that you don't actually know how much they *are* eating. To be honest the "belly high grass" and "3lbs of senior feed" to me simply suggest the horse isn't getting enough to eat. She might have other issues (worm load, Cushings, etc.) but it might just be as simple as needing hay in addition to pasture. Of course it never hurts to check on an older horse for Cushings so you are on top of it early.

I'd put her back on a FULL portion of Senior Feed and give her hay also, because you can measure whether she has eaten it or not. 

Can you stall her for part of the day and give her hay so the rest of the horses aren't getting her portion or more than they need?


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## ErinP (Aug 23, 2007)

I've never had a skinny one, either, Rogo. Even our 29 year old was still holding weight when he died! That's why this is throwing me.

No, Pixie, we don't own a ranch. We _work_ on a ranch. Cattle and horses. I've worked on 20-40,000 acre ranches for the last 20 years, all over the high Plains. I know the difference between grass and weeds. :shrug:
And I didn't realize this was going to need to be described down to such detail, so here goes. 

The grama is running about 8" high. The blue stem (less preferred because it gets tough) is up to their knees and the brome (non-native) is up to their bellies. Because we've had such an unusually wet summer, their favorite, buffalo grass is very thick and heavy this year. But it doesn't usually get very tall. Six inches is pretty high for buffalo grass. And I can't tell if they're eating the switch grass or not. Some of _it_ is up to their bellies, too. 
I'm sure I'm missing some, but these are probably the most prolific grasses in our pastures.

So far as Senior, from the back of the bag:
_Reduce the amount of Equine SeniorÂ® horse feed by 1 lb. for every 1.5-2.0 lb. of hay consumed by your horse. *A 1,000 lb. maintenance horse eating no hay would be offered 13.0 lb.* of Equine SeniorÂ® horse feed_
I'm not sure why you're so bent on this, but I just was not at all impressed with Senior. It was expensive and ineffective. 



> OK, with the aged horse, you HAVE to consider Cushings.


Thanks for the suggestion Ohiogal! I hadn't even thought of this. 
Her coat looks fantastic and no, she's not even remotely lethargic. But if I'm not seeing a turn-around soon, I'm going to take her up to the vet and ask about it.


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## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

olivehill said:


> The bag _does _say to reduce feed according to how much forage the horse is receiving. The problem with that is it's formulated to be fed as a full, complete feed so when you start reducing you start tampering with the nutritional profile. If a horse cannot eat the full amount of senior feed per day then senior feed isn't for him/her. I wouldn't say your horse cannot eat it, but it wasn't eating it. So either put her back on the senior and feed it as it's intended or you could choose something else that is meant to be fed in smaller quantity -- a Ration Balancer might be a fine choice.
> 
> And just as an aside, personally, if I went with a Sr feed I'd go with something other than Purina.
> 
> You didn't respond to my question but I'm going to assume since you said rotation you do mean a traditional, 8 week rotational program and just say that those are incredibly ineffective. Not only is 8 weeks an out-dated and arbitrary mark that has nothing to do with effective management of a parasite load, most rotations include drugs that have serious wide-spread resistance issues. I would strongly encourage you to do some reading on parasite management from more credible, up-to-date sources and to get the mare FEC'd.


I've never fed a Sr feed, and would never feed Purina anything but I realize there aren't many options in some areas, but offthegrid is right no one knows how much this mare is eating because of the "belly high grass." Even if she is trying to eat it she isn't getting much nutrition from it, so I agree with offthegrids suggestion of starting her out on the recommended amount of Sr plus whatever grass she can get. If she still hasn't gained in a couple weeks start adding rice bran AND beet pulp- this is assuming the mare doesn't have Cushings.


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## Ohiogal (Mar 15, 2007)

If it were me, knowing what I do and how I had to struggle to keep my aged mare comfortable with Cushings, I'd get the blood test run and see what you have. Waiting is not a good option when dealing with Cushings. Waiting can = disaster.
Have the vet run a blood panel and check for glucose levels too - if they are elevated you have a sub-clinical thing going on that needs investigating. Anything you do on guesswork prior to that is tatamount to throwing money down the drain or worse, making it a more critical situation later that is far more difficult to deal with!
My aged mare was of good weight until her Cushings disease excelerated and then she dropped weight pretty fast. I had been tracking her body condition for years - something was not 'quite right' started showing at age 14. Her's was a slow onset - at first I couldn't get a positive on the ACTH - and then I was suddenly body clipping her 1x a month. She grew hair like you wouldn't believe - a veritable yak. She changed into that old plow-horse look with the high withers and declining muscle tone despite a high protein diet with meds. Her personality changed.
I ended up putting her down at age 17 when she suffered a bout of laminitis that continued to morph into painful abcesses months after the initial event, and I could not control her pain with meds. Believe me, you don't want to be in that situation if you can prevent it.


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## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

ErinP said:


> I've never had a skinny one, either, Rogo. Even our 29 year old was still holding weight when he died! That's why this is throwing me.
> 
> No, Pixie, we don't own a ranch. We _work_ on a ranch. Cattle and horses. I've worked on 20-40,000 acre ranches for the last 20 years, all over the high Plains. I know the difference between grass and weeds. :shrug:
> And I didn't realize this was going to need to be described down to such detail, so here goes.
> ...


Bottom line and point blank- you don't know how much grass this mare is eating. She isn't gaining weight on the feeding regimen you were using so it makes sense to increase some sort of complete feed that was made for horses, correct? You asked for suggestions...

IMO, Purina feed is cheap junk and I wouldn't feed it.


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## wolffeathers (Dec 20, 2010)

I hadn't thought of Cushings. Good suggestion.


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## offthegrid (Aug 11, 2009)

Irish Pixie said:


> I've never fed a Sr feed, and would never feed Purina anything but I realize there aren't many options in some areas, but offthegrid is right no one knows how much this mare is eating because of the "belly high grass." Even if she is trying to eat it she isn't getting much nutrition from it, so I agree with offthegrids suggestion of starting her out on the recommended amount of Sr plus whatever grass she can get. If she still hasn't gained in a couple weeks start adding rice bran AND beet pulp- this is assuming the mare doesn't have Cushings.


I feed Triple Crown Senior and love it. It IS expensive, it's true (about $18/50lb bag). But it has been fabulous for all my horses, starting with my very underweight TB mare when I got her 5 years ago. My vet recommends senior feeds as the ingredients are more consistent than other feeds -- because it is specifically designed for older horses and/or as a complete feed. 

If you can get Triple Crown, it's a great feed and the "if your horse can eat hay" ration is only 6lbs/day.


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## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

offthegrid said:


> I feed Triple Crown Senior and love it. It IS expensive, it's true (about $18/50lb bag). But it has been fabulous for all my horses, starting with my very underweight TB mare when I got her 5 years ago. My vet recommends senior feeds as the ingredients are more consistent than other feeds -- because it is specifically designed for older horses and/or as a complete feed.
> 
> If you can get Triple Crown, it's a great feed and the "if your horse can eat hay" ration is only 6lbs/day.


I feed Blue Seal's Vintage series, usually Vintage Victory. It's not cheap (pretty much the same as your Triple Crown) but it's a great feed. My TB mare does better on a high fat grain and VV is perfect for her.


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## Cannon_Farms (Aug 28, 2008)

32 year old Tenn walker gelding staying just fine off safe choice, boss and burmuda/rye grass, was starved because he was a hard keeper by previous owners now fat. His teeth are in great shape.

I would do a $10 fecal test and get that out of the way before moving onto more expensive feeds, potions and test. Most wormers should be used over several days because of the resistance or at more than label dose because of the resistance rotational and blind worming has caused. Old horses get holes or grooves in the intestinal wall from having worms and this causes them to loose the ability to digest properly. Those horses that are helped by Fast track are most likely to be those that have scared intestine from worms. 

Boss ads a great deal of fat as its 25% but also ads 15% protein. Rice bran and beet pulp do work, but also in some cases can reduce caloric intake because it can make things move too fast out the other end.

TSC carries Equistages again, its about the same thing as Safechoice but with a better price point, 14% protein 7% fat, low starch. They both contain Rice bran and alfalfa.
The longer the grass the shorter nutrition it will have, if its went to seed then its a filler and nothing more, a good pasture shouldnt get above the knee of the horse as simply they wont eat it and if they do, they wont get much out of it, four to six inches is ideal so you may consider downsizing the pastures and making them paddocks that you can rotate them in and out of so they have to keep the grass short. Short grass also is a poor enviroment for worms..

My best advice get a fecal from the first morning poo then go from there, feed something similar to Safechoice and continue with the boss and I prefer rice bran over beet pulp to be added but go with what has a better price point.

Sr feeds are great for those that can no longer eat hay, but pretty much thats where their usefulness ends in what I have learned.


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## ErinP (Aug 23, 2007)

That's kind of the direction I'm coming from Canon. I just have a really hard time believing that in the vast majority of cases, anything out of a bag (no matter how high the quality) is going to somehow be better than a good, healthy pasture. 
Supplement as needs be, but horses are suppsed to eat GRASS. :shrug:


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## Cannon_Farms (Aug 28, 2008)

Taking a course from a UGA professor he doesnt like horses getting anything more than rye hay, oats with corn, that in fact is what the whole UGA feeding program is based on with exception of those doing trials..


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## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

ErinP said:


> That's kind of the direction I'm coming from Canon. I just have a really hard time believing that in the vast majority of cases, anything out of a bag (no matter how high the quality) is going to somehow be better than a good, healthy pasture.
> Supplement as needs be, but horses are suppsed to eat GRASS. :shrug:


Grass _is_ best when available, but some horses need help in the form of bagged feed. Especially when the grass isn't of good quality. Some horses simply need more to gain and then maintain a decent weight. This isn't rocket science... a horse needs to bring in more calories than it's burning off, if that means adding bagged feed and supplements so be it.


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## krische1012 (May 3, 2009)

I would try Triple Crown Senior over Purina Senior any day, overall better quality food. I have had luck adding Purina's Amplify which is a 30% fat supplement as well as soaked alfalfa cubes and soaked beet pulp. One of my broodmares is extremely picky and a hard keeper as well. So I frequently change things up as she tires of one feed or another.


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## Ohiogal (Mar 15, 2007)

One other suggestion I have is to add 1 beer a day to the feed ration. I did this with a Saddlebred I have, who was 100 lbs underweight when I got him. I used regular Budweiser - but the Irish use stout. This is a tip I got from a racehorse manager, who regularly deals with finickey eaters that fret off weight. It worked quite well - 30 cans a month at 20$ for a 30 pack, roughly. Cheap supplement and the horses like it.
The only bad part of doing this is that the horse then knows the beer taste/smell and you can't leave an open can sitting out within reaching distance. If you do, bammo, it gets crushed and drank.


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## sidepasser (May 10, 2002)

As they say, ask 3 horse people a question and get four answers..lol..

I would go the simple route first - get a fecal done to make sure the worms are gone. 

Sounds like you have a nice pasture, and at age 20, she should be doing better than she is on pasture. In this day and age of good vet care and better informed owners..20 is hardly "old". Old these days is 28-30. I have many horses that go over 30 before being put down to various issues (last one was 34.5 years old and had cancer and the one before was 33 and had a neuro problem and couldn't get up). Got two now that are on pasture only, no grain except during the winter and they get coastal hay, one is 28 and the other 25, both fat as pigs in mud. 

Getting away for a moment from just "illness and feed", has anything else changed? Is she ridden more or did y'all put a new horse in the pasture with her that may be bossy? Were there more flies this summer so she spent more energy swishing, swatting and stomping? Sometimes environmental factors cause a weight loss in horses. I had one that lost weight when her buddy was moved to another pasture..silly heifer walked the fence all day for weeks even though she could see her buddy right over the fence. I had to move her to the big farm and turn her out with new horses as she was so herd bound to that one mare.

If you eliminate environmental factors, then perhaps some blood work is in order to make sure she doesn't have an undiagnosed illness, and I might have the vet take another look at her teeth to make sure they are alright. She might have broken one off, gotten some bit of something lodged in her gums, etc. 

Then go back to the feed issue. She doesn't sound like she is a hot blood that burns through food. Is she a QH/Paint type? All of those I have owned were easy keepers. 

The best feed I've ever had was mill mixed and the recipe was developed by an Auburn equine nutritionist. Perhaps your vet could give you some pointers on high density feed that wouldn't be overwhelming in volume. More "bang for the buck" so to speak.

I have had good luck adding soaked beet pulp to regular commercial feed, I've used rice bran with "mixed" results, on some horses it makes them pick up weight and on others, they picked up weight as well as a few looney tunes. I would experiment and also keep a weight tape (they aren't as accurate as scales, but heck, you can use it to keep a fairly good idea of what her weight is doing)..sometimes our eyeballs get accustomed to the horse looking a certain way and we don't notice small weight gains. Veggie oil is good for weight gain, but if you think about it Erin, what's the one thing that will put weight on horses and humans fast? 

CORN. I've used plain old ground/cracked corn added to feed and seen horses just bloom with extra fat (of course they are corn crackheads too..all that energy) but if one thinks about it: corn fattens cattle, pigs, people, and just about anything under the sun that eats it including chickens. I am not saying to give corn as the sole dietary ingredient, but adding a scoop of cracked corn to regular feed (you may have to soak it a bit if teeth issues exist), _and as long as the horse doesn't have a problem with high carbs._.corn is a great fattner of darned near everything that comes into contact with it. Something to keep in mind.

I do remember my grandpa having teams of mules and work horses and the only thing he fed them was corn and oats. And most of the corn was cob fed. Oh HORRORS..a horse eating dried corn on the cob. Many of his old horses lived well into their twenties which was ancient back in dark ages of horse care. (prior to MRI's and ultrasounds and fancy feeds and fly masks). Now we supposedly "know better" but do we? His horses WORKED and worked hard and they were fit and well cared for (he made his living with them so they HAD to be well cared for). 

So there are my three answers: health/feed/environment. Sometimes we horse people over analyze things to the point that we spend $$ for problems we only imagine exist. Going back to the old KISS method seems to work well for me in most situations. Start simple and work my way up to the complicated. Hopefully something sticks between simple and $$$$.


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## ErinP (Aug 23, 2007)

> Were there more flies this summer so she spent more energy swishing, swatting and stomping?


YES!

I was complaining to a friend of mine yesterday about this mare and how I can't get weight back on her. 
"Sweety....She just came out of show season and now it's FLY season! What do you expect?!" lol But she made the point that the flies are bad this year (which IS true) and any weight she might be putting on, she's stomping back off.

Also, I just looked through some pics from a show back in June and she _has_ put on weight... Not as much as I want to see, but maybe I just need to be more patient and wait til the end of the month when the flies have died off.


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## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

Is there a reason you can't use fly spray on her?


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## ErinP (Aug 23, 2007)

She HAS fly spray. 

This year, it doesn't matter how good your spray is, they're determined little devils...


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## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

What spray are you using? Some are vastly better than others, and I rotate sprays during the summer as they seem to lose effectiveness over time. There are times when I use spray _every day_ because the flies are horrible.


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## wolffeathers (Dec 20, 2010)

Flies are bad at a friend's farm this year. They had that cremello mare wearing black socks were they were just tearing her up. Pryhana fly rub has worked wonders for her. What a difference between that twitchy, swishy, stompy poor horse and the horse who calmly stands there, eyes half closed and lip hanging to the ground(she has a floppy lip, lol)

I find the fly rubs(usually same stuff as the spray, but seems to get better coverage and lasts longer) work very well when the flies are bad. You brush the horse first and apply against the grain. I just brush out and reapply when the flies start landing again.


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