# ideas and comments underground shelter



## jamala (May 4, 2007)

Ok all, my DH is wanting to build an underground shelter. His idea is to bury a container (like 18 wheeler container). We would use this during storms and to store some of our canned goods etc. He would bury this into the side of a hill. Help me trouble shoot the potential problems? Would it work? etc. I know we would have to put some type water/vapor barier and put drains under it. What are your thoughts?


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## PyroDon (Jul 30, 2006)

paint the out side with epoxy pool paint.
Be sure to set it on a good gravel pad with drainage tiles in place .
when back filling use gravel against it to provide good drainage.
Having dealt with leaking container roofs Id suggest covering the top with EPDM rubber membrane and not putting too much soil over it. 
You will also want to install ventilation .

For a simple storm shelter , Ive been looking for 6ft culvert and figure on buring it with blocked walls on the ends


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## jtjf_1 (Nov 7, 2009)

You will either need to build a wall around the container or reinforce the container. Lots of people bury containers where i am from mostly for um "green" houses. Containers will collapse if there is pressure on the roof or sides. Yes you can stack containers 20 high but that uses the 4 points on the container as posts the roof will take no load. Best idea i have seen is to build a roof over the container on the 4 points making a simple post and beam structure and then building walls out of earth bags or rock in chain link fence.


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## coehorn (Jul 29, 2009)

Excellent idea. 

I recommend a minimum of 3 foot of soil over the top. Most likely you will need to do some reinforcement.


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## FourDeuce (Jun 27, 2002)

http://www.mypnw.us/STUFF/Interesting/Interesting.nukehome.aspx


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## PhilJohnson (Dec 24, 2006)

I second the culvert idea. Another idea would be to get a septic tank (new of course). A steel cargo container like the ones that come off of large freight ships would be pretty sturdy but I wouldn't use just a plain old semi-trailer as they are lightly built. An old box car would be pretty strong too but probably be hard to get transported to your property.


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## jamala (May 4, 2007)

Thanks so much everyone, we are looking at the links and putting pen to paper and trying to plan this. Hubby's family (4 adults, 2 kids) comes to our house when storms hit and we need lots of room. We have a safe room built into our home but it only holds us and our 3 kids and it is tight then, it is concrete blocks filled with rebar and concrete and topped with concrete, it has a fort knox safe door on it. We feel safe in it but with extended family comming over now for storms we need something with more room. And I have always wanted a root cellar so he thinks he could combine a storm shelter and root cellar for me. Any other ideas you can think of please let me know. thanks again


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## Allen W (Aug 2, 2008)

Wouldn't count on a semi trailer or shipping container holding up buried. They just aren't designed to carry the load that being buried would put on them.


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## Gary in ohio (May 11, 2002)

jamala said:


> Ok all, my DH is wanting to build an underground shelter. His idea is to bury a container (like 18 wheeler container).


The top and sides are not designed to support any weight. Containers strength is on the floor and on the corners. The top and sides are pretty light weight metals and would collapse with the weight of earth on them.


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## countrymech (Nov 28, 2005)

I actually know some folks that did this. They buried an aluminium shipping container last year. I don't remember them reinforcing anything. They used a track hoe to dig the hole and dropped it in. They used 2 6 inch vent pipes to circulate air, 1 high and 1 low and covered it with 3 feet of dirt. For an entrance, they cut a hole through the top. Currently they use a ladder to access it but the plan to build stairs. They have a little enclosure on top that looks like a mini barn shed that is the main access. I don't know how they tied it in but it looks pretty slick. I think the container was delivered to the property from South Dakota for $2,800. It is a full size shipping container. The only mod's they did to it as far as I know is weld the original vents shut with some aluminium plate. Of course its only been in service for a year, but they seem happy with it.


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## tamsam (May 12, 2006)

What ever you bury make sure the people that might be running search teams know of where you will be as there is no way you can predict what might end up on top of you. Good luck. Sam


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## ||Downhome|| (Jan 12, 2009)

FourDeuce said:


> http://www.mypnw.us/STUFF/Interesting/Interesting.nukehome.aspx


wow your own personal batcave! I love stuff like that,seeing that is west coast and well known (been featured on tv and listed on the internet) not for me but some really cool ideas. 

since all the strength of a trailer box is in the floor why not flip it and just reinforce the walls? though I do like the culvert shelters better.


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## TnAndy (Sep 15, 2005)

Semi trailers and shipping containers are NOT designed to be buried. 

You might get away with it, or you might find it caved in one day after a heavy rain, burying your supplies, or you might be building a tomb. You REALLY want to roll the dice and find out ?

Culverts are ROUND and CORRUGATED for a reason.....both add considerable strength to the design.

Personally, I wouldn't do anything less than block with concrete fill and a reinforced concrete roof, and all poured concrete. Cheap and easy are NOT words you want associated when burying a room.

Photo of my root cellar roof before the pour....6" concrete, plenty of steel:


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## FarmerChick (Dec 28, 2009)

I saw this on another site

http://www.nogw.com/download/2005_cellar3.pdf


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## Randy Rooster (Dec 14, 2004)

a schoolbus might be a better bet - look at this link

http://www.enctoday.com/news/city-61357-kfpress-sheriff-pot.html


http://law.rightpundits.com/?p=1138


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## Ross (May 9, 2002)

Looks good Andy did you have to water proof the blocks or change the foundation drainage.


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## TnAndy (Sep 15, 2005)

No, it stays pretty dry on that side of the garage anyway, plus I took advantage of an existing footer drain on that outside wall.

I did drape a pc of EDM rubber roofing membrane over the top after the pour, before the back filling....but that was more to prevent rain water from entering at the junction of the old wall and the new concrete roof. I also put an inch of Blue Dow foam board under the EDM..then backfilled with a foot of dirt. I'd probably skip the foam if I could have gotten 3' or more of dirt for insulation....but I had what I had for elevation trying to mate up to the existing garage....wanted the floors roughly the same. 

Since it is a root cellar, you actually WANT a fair amount of humidity in there for storing potatoes, etc in the best environment. Also, on one wall, I put a couple of 6" 'port hole' that I later ran some 6" PVC pipe for air circulation...put a 6" duct booster fan in one, and set it on a small timer, so there is positive ventilation. I set it to run at night, sucking in colder night air.....and from fall on, it will keep the inside down in the upper 30 to mid 40 range....pretty good for veggie storage.

IF this was going to be a 'live in' type room, I would have taken a lot more care to waterproof, etc.


Basically, I had the hole excavated on the outside, then sawed a door opening in the existing block, hand poured a small footer, then layed up 8" block:










Once the block was laid, build a temporary form for the concrete:



















Inside finished with a couple coats of UGL/drylock, then installed shelving and lights...built an insulated door out of red cedar, and it's good to go !


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## unregistered29228 (Jan 9, 2008)

PhilJohnson said:


> Another idea would be to get a septic tank (new of course).


There was an article in BWH magazine recently, where someone made a root cellar/storage room under their house with a new septic tank. It sounds like a great idea, and it's meant to support weight from being buried.


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## Cabin Fever (May 10, 2002)

Mom_of_Four said:


> There was an article in BWH magazine recently, where someone made a root cellar/storage room under their house with a new septic tank. It sounds like a great idea, and it's meant to support weight from being buried.


If my memory serves me right, the BWH article discussed buying a pre-made root cellar/storm shelter from a company that also makes septic tanks. Many septic tank manufacturers make precast root cellars/storm shelters. If I was interested in an underground shelter, I would start calling around to septic tank manufacturers in the area and inquire whether they also make precast storm shelters or root cellars.


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## TnAndy (Sep 15, 2005)

I used a 1000gal septic tank for spring water storage for about 10 years....I went over to the tank company, and they cast a 1" threaded fitting in a new tank as they built it ( said it was common ) so I had a gravity drain for the supply line. I would think they could just as easy cast a doorway in a tank by simply blocking off part of the form.

Problem with septic tanks is they are fairly small...a thousand gallon tank is only about 6' wide and 8' long, with slightly over 7' inside height. Bigger ones (here) they simply add more height....they put a "ring" with no top/bottom in between a top and bottom of a 1000gal model.

For a small root cellar, it would do.....but I don't think I'd want to live in one very long.


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## TnAndy (Sep 15, 2005)

There was a COOL small stone/concrete house built in Fine Homebuilding magazine a few years back. They built forms right on site using plywood on the bottom and lumber on the ends....if I remember, the they were about 8" thick. They laid face stone in the bottom of the form, then reinforcement mesh, and then poured concrete.

Door and window openings were boxed in the forms so they didn't have to be cut out later.

The ends of the panels were done in a finger joint ( box joint )pattern, with the gable walls ( yep....they poured the WHOLE gable end in one panel, complete with roof slope ! ) also a finger joint. They ran a pc of PVC pipe ( like 3/4" ) thru the finger joint so it left a 'hole' there. 

Then they hired a crane for couple hours, set the 4 walls up, the finger joints on the ends mated together, and they drove a pc of re-bar down thrut the holes in the finger joints to pin the four sides together....PRESTO.....walls complete with stonework done !


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## Cabin Fever (May 10, 2002)

TnAndy said:


> Problem with septic tanks is they are fairly small...a thousand gallon tank is only about 6' wide and 8' long.....
> For a small root cellar, it would do.....but I don't think I'd want to live in one very long.


I agree septic tanks are small. Actually, the 1000 gallon tanks that I'm familiar with are only ~5 feet high (interior).


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## beowoulf90 (Jan 13, 2004)

Cabin Fever said:


> I agree septic tanks are small. Actually, the 1000 gallon tanks that I'm familiar with are only ~5 feet high (interior).



Well the ones we have are a 1000 gal and a 1500 gal tank. both of these are round and about 6 ft tall on the inside. Most septic tank companies that I've dealt with will, or have a large tank(s) designed already.. They will cast what you want/need if you ask them..

I know that the work I've done for the company I work for, we have designed and had tanks place that were bigger then small cabins. Now of course these didn't have and doors on the sides..I often thought about getting one of them as a prefab garage and just cutting a door out of it..


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## rfd (Jan 10, 2006)

http://www.stormsheltersinc.com/main_menu.htm

we are using this


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## coehorn (Jul 29, 2009)

tamsam said:


> What ever you bury make sure the people that might be running search teams know of where you will be as there is no way you can predict what might end up on top of you. Good luck. Sam




No way I'd want the authorities to know where my cellar was located. Seems to me that the authorities are at least as big a threat as the weather.

Reinforce the box with a load bearing roof at the lift/stack points like others have mentioned. Overbuild it by a comfortable margin. Have two entrances at opposite ends.


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## PhilJohnson (Dec 24, 2006)

I had a crazy idea for a cheap underground house. There are a couple of large road construction companies in the area. I have noticed that there are a number huge concrete culverts dug up from various road repair jobs that wind up going to these companies gravel pits. Most of the time they break 'em up but perhaps one could get them on the cheap and use that as an underground shelter/house.


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## jamala (May 4, 2007)

Well we are reading all the ideas and suggestions. Hubby is now trying to figure out how to tie it into our current safe room and make an entrance from inside the house and then another outside. Don't have to worry about the search and rescue teams because that will be my family. Hubby is the local fire chief and brother is asst. chief and my father-in-law is the local coordinator for the county fire depts. Thanks again for all the links and ideas and please keep them comming. We are hoping to start working on it this spring. I will let you all know what we decide to do.


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## coehorn (Jul 29, 2009)

jamala said:


> Don't have to worry about the search and rescue teams because that will be my family. Hubby is the local fire chief and brother is asst. chief and my father-in-law is the local coordinator for the county fire depts.




Before you put up your first batter boards, do a realistic threat assessment. Why are you building safe shelter? What are the range of scenarios that you seek protection from? Then, do a slow scan of current events.

Keep in mind that the federals have seized control of state resources, both human and equipment assets. They are now in the process of consolidating power at home while redefining state-sponsored-terror as our primary export. Whether they are GPS'ing your front door or demanding that you take vaccines, it all points to trouble, major trouble, in the foreseeable future. Now the Army is making noise about a new police department. Worrisome on a major scale.

So .... what capacity does your shelter need to provide in terms of max # of people for what period of days? Think in terms of inputs and outputs. Air, food, excrement disposal, you get the drift. 

Try to imagine what people would have done in Germany if they had the foresight of events of the 1930's and 1940's. Or perhaps think about the preps the Cambodian people would have made prior to the Khmer Rouge. Don't make the mistake of thinking it can't happen here.

I hope this does not come across as too political. I look at the federals and I am ashamed. I tremble for this country. I tremble for my parents, family and friends......


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## Common Tator (Feb 19, 2008)

jtjf_1 said:


> You will either need to build a wall around the container or reinforce the container. Lots of people bury containers where i am from mostly for um "green" houses. Containers will collapse if there is pressure on the roof or sides. Yes you can stack containers 20 high but that uses the 4 points on the container as posts the roof will take no load. Best idea i have seen is to build a roof over the container on the 4 points making a simple post and beam structure and then building walls out of earth bags or rock in chain link fence.


I've also heard that they collapse if not properly reinforced.


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## ChristyACB (Apr 10, 2008)

There are some seriously high dollar but high longevity and highly functional options out there for the one seriously invested. My ground water is too high for all of these, but the images alone offer the creative and builder minded insight for their own works.

Wish I could weld well.

http://www.survivalcenter.com/UG.html

http://www.disastershelters.net/index.php

http://www.hardenedstructures.com/underground.asp
This one is my local area!

http://www.bomb-shelter.net/products.html
My favorite!


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## beowoulf90 (Jan 13, 2004)

PhilJohnson said:


> I had a crazy idea for a cheap underground house. There are a couple of large road construction companies in the area. I have noticed that there are a number huge concrete culverts dug up from various road repair jobs that wind up going to these companies gravel pits. Most of the time they break 'em up but perhaps one could get them on the cheap and use that as an underground shelter/house.


Or multiple ones and connect them to make a serious underground habitat..


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## frank (Dec 16, 2008)

Paint the container with epoxy (Pyro don)

Prep pad with gravel (pyro don)

dig walls wide enough to build a tire wall (earthship) this is your retainer wall. the container should be "fairly snug" 

fill gap with gravel

build retainer wall to roof height of container

cover" roof" with plastic (don't forget a vent) then lay/tie rebar across the entire thing. (tire to tire )

pour concrete on the top. It's supported by the retainer wall. 

shore up the roof inside with studs to support the pouring of concrete


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## used2bcool13 (Sep 24, 2007)

Wow, those are pricey, I will have to keep looking, I really like the idea of my own batcave.


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## rhome (Aug 10, 2006)

We have a local storage tank manufacturer.
They receive the used underground fiberglass fuel storage tanks that leaked.

The larger tanks you can stand upright in.
Can safely re-bury with no extra support.
Can easily cut entry/vent holes.
Semi-transparent fiberglass can serve as a skylight if left partially uncovered at top.
Cheap or sometimes just pay for shipping/hauling to location.
Light enough to move without heavy equipment.

I've been inside one of these that was "converted" it had stored gasoline.
*There was no residual gas odor. the fiberglass resists absorbtion.*

Check google or yellow pages for tank replacement companies.
Good luck.
*I posted this on another website and there was some concerned skeptics.*I have checked into this with a couple of different manufacturers. Be careful selecting your proposed bunker. 

Some of them require a partial or full fill to bury properly and need a partial fill to keep from collapsing. 

The best seem to be the dual chambered units designed for Septic use. 

All I am cautioning on is to make sure it is safe for use as you intend it. Talk to the manufacturer, let them know your intentions on its use. They have already had similar requests and know what's going on. You want a bunker, not a really expensive casket.
*My reply*
Preppercon, Thanks for the follow-up info.
The buried "conversion" tank that I was in was a single wall 1 chamber tank placed long side against a small berm after the site was prepped...level with some gravel fines and drain tile.
Tank was stabilzed and carefully backfilled at the front,back and one end....the top wasn't completely covered.
Installed 10 years ago...still safe and stable.
Another option.
My neighbor purchased a used delivery truck reefer box. $400.
Outside dimensions 14'x8'x7'6" Aluminun ext., fiberglass int., ribbed aluminun floor with some steel frame underneath.
6" walls and ceiling w/rigid foam insulation, solid gasketed door.
Prepped site was dug into a small berm 12' in and 6' deep, gravel bed and drain tile.A rollback tow truck brought the box to the site and placed the box. Carefully backfilled 6' up sides and rear. Moderate temps thru out the year... 40 to 50deg. 
Safe and secure 12 years later. Good luck


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## FourDeuce (Jun 27, 2002)

"Semi-transparent fiberglass can serve as a skylight if left partially uncovered at top."

When I buried my 1500-gallon water tank(storm shelter), I made sure I covered the entire top. The sun shining on the top could drastically reduce the lifespan of the tank.


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## rhome (Aug 10, 2006)

The owner of this converted tank let brambles and vines grow over the exposed top...erosion control, shade, camo and to prevent walk overs.
Seems to have worked so far.


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