# a pocket 9mm can hit harder than a 4" 357, using 125 gr jhp's.



## ergo (Aug 15, 2017)

and get repeat hits twice as fast, along with being twice as fast to draw from concealement (starting hand on gun, in pocket) The answer is in having a spare barrel having its chamber deepened to take the 2mm longer 9x21mm cases,

https://www.starlinebrass.com/brass-cases/9X21-Brass/

and using a lathe or drill to make 45 gr, solid aluminum, hollow based bullets, which you can then safely drive to 2200 fps, for 500 ft lbs of power, with no more recoil than a makarov.

If the bullet is slit down the middle, from both ends, using an exacto saw, it will split in half at impact, sending two sharp-cornered, hard, full-length, unstable segments yawing, even tumbling thru the target, diverging as they penetrate. Because of the Mach II impact speed, the temporary gas cavities of each segment ARE capable of destroying vital organ tissue, beyond what is actually torn or crushed by actual contact with the segments. So, such organ tissue that gets "caught" between the diverging permanent wound channels is damaged. So the effect of this 'Split Nose" bullet is massive shock and tissue damage.

You wont be carrying a 4" 357 in a pants pocket holster, not even a 2" 357, actually, and you wont control it nearly as well, nor will you get reliable bullet expansion from it, or more than 400 ft lbs, either, for that matter.

In bad weather, a belt rig requires you to clear TWO outer garments before you can draw and maybe also have to deal with the handicap of wearing gloves. You can "palm" the pocket gun and the rig, moving it between coat pocket and pants pocket, as you prepare to don or doff your coat. With your hands in your coat pockets, you dont need gloves. 

you've had a LOT of practice putting your hand in your pants pockets, reaching for wallet, keys, change, etc. Probably a LOT more practice than you've had making a ccw draw from a belt holster. Think about that for a minute.

If you grind and polish the corners of a 15 oz, 6" long, 4.5" tall Kahr CM 9 ($250 in good used condition) in a good Kydex holster, it looks just like a wallet in your pants pocket. No need to have a jacket or shirt covering its shape. The bad guy is going to tell you to "hand it over", and EXPECT your hand to come out of your pocket, holding SOMETHING, eh? At such distances, I can sidestep and brain him before he can see what's in my hand and react/fire, and in any case, I wont be where I was. Naturally, you do so only if you think that he's going to shoot you anyway, cause hitting him with a bullet doesn't necessarily mean that he can't still fire his gun.

This load is also a legal means of having AP ammo that has real stopping power. The bullet is hard enough, going fast enough, to chop right thru Kevlar. In the states that require a "lead core", there's no statement as to how big or heavy that lead core is, so a #2 birdshot pellet, epoxied into the hollow base of the bullet, qualifies as a "lead core", according to Webster's dictionary definition of "core". It's also highly likely to stop an attacking dog, with any solid hit to the chest. For the difference in cost between the CM9 and the .357 snubby, you can set up to reload, or have lots of spare mags for (and luminous sights on) the pocket 9mm


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## Sourdough (Dec 28, 2011)

Do you "Play" a pretend knowledgeable ballistics and firearms "expert" on TV or in the Movies........or just on internet forums.....???


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## ergo (Aug 15, 2017)

there's nothing "pretend" about it. Magsafe got 2300 fps with 5" barreled 9mms, in standard cases. The extra powder space gained by hollowbasing the bullet and having the longer, stronger case of the 9x21 easily gains back the 150 fps you lose by having a 2" shorter barrel. 

energy is mass x the SQUARE of velocity. 45 grs x 2200x2200, divided by 450,000 (and some meaningless change. 

Recoil, however, is momentum. momentum is simply mass x velocity. 45 grs at 2200 fps is the same as 110 grs at 900 fps. Can you see that? or 105 grs at 950 fps, which is all a Makorov has. The Makarov is straight blowback. The Kahr uses the Colt/browning delayed blowback action, which has the effect of softening felt recoil. So the 11 oz lighter CM9 is just as controlable as the Makarov. Shock of shocks, there ARE people on forums who know 10x what you know.


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## shawnlee (Apr 13, 2010)

No thanks...I like my .357 just fine. 

Good luck with those issues that ammo is having right now.


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## Sourdough (Dec 28, 2011)

ergo said:


> Shock of shocks, there ARE people on forums who know 10x what you know.


Yes......I am not sure that ten times would be accurate, however, I agree, there are for sure more knowledgeable people them myself on the internet. However based on your posts in this thread which are full of flaws, and deceptions, and blatant untruths, your not one of those people.


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

> ergo said: ↑
> Shock of shocks, there ARE people on forums who know 10x what you know.


You're not one of them though.


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## ergo (Aug 15, 2017)

Sourdough said:


> Yes......I am not sure that ten times would be accurate, however, I agree, there are for sure more knowledgeable people them myself on the internet. However based on your posts in this thread which are full of flaws, and deceptions, and blatant untruths, your not one of those people.


how about you point out some untruths in what I've said? you can't, and we all know it. Which is why you didnt even try.


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## ergo (Aug 15, 2017)

Bearfootfarm said:


> You're not one of them though.


the hell I aint. I've long ago forgotten more than you know about defensive firearms.


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## Sourdough (Dec 28, 2011)

Sorry........not my job to clean up your mess. Nearly the whole thing is flawed, and most is just grossly inaccurate. It is simply not worth fixing.



ergo said:


> how about you point out some untruths in what I've said? you can't, and we all know it. Which is why you didnt even try.


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## Sourdough (Dec 28, 2011)

Looks like "Gunkid" or Gunkid clone is out of jail....

.https://www.thehighroad.org/index.php?threads/gunkids-posts.362093/

https://armslocker.com/gun-talk/59162-firearm-expert-internet-troll.html

https://search.yahoo.com/search?p=Gunkid+troll&fr=yfp-t&fp=1&toggle=1&cop=mss&ei=UTF-8


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

ergo said:


> I've long ago forgotten


I'm sure you think that.
It doesn't change what I said.



> ergo said: ↑
> how about you point out some *untruths* in what I've said?


All of it.


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