# This was in the pasture just now...



## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

I don't like it when they are this close to the cabin. My husband just brush hogged the horse pasture so I'm sure it was just hunting mice, but I have a tiny frou-frou dog (adopted granddog) and a smallish beagle and it makes me nervous. I guesstimate this coyote is near 50 lbs.


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## fordy (Sep 13, 2003)

............So , why don't you purchase a 243 with a 4 to 7x power scope and get rid of your problem(s) ? You might enjoy putting holes in your enemies ! , fordy


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## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

fordy said:


> ............So , why don't you purchase a 243 with a 4 to 7x power scope and get rid of your problem(s) ? You might enjoy putting holes in your enemies ! , fordy


Why would I need to buy a gun? We have many that would easily dispatch a coyote.


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## fordy (Sep 13, 2003)

Irish Pixie said:


> Why would I need to buy a gun? We have many that would easily dispatch a coyote.


 ..........The fact that you're shooting them with a camera instead of a rifle , and they're still breathing , seems to indicate you don't want to take care of your problem ! Maybe the next series of pics you publish will depict them with their tongue's hanging out while you're holding their head(s) up and your rifle leaning against your camoflague hunting clothes . , fordy


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## arabian knight (Dec 19, 2005)

fordy said:


> ............So , why don't you purchase a 243 with a 4 to 7x power scope and get rid of your problem(s) ? You might enjoy putting holes in your enemies ! , fordy


 Ya really, bang, and he is gone. Goodbye to a potential problem, why worry about something that a nice shot in the head will eliminate it? Geesh If I saw something that close to my horses I sure as heck would NOT be shooting them with a camera~!


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## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

arabian knight said:


> Ya really, bang, and he is gone. Goodbye to a potential problem, why worry about something that a nice shot in the head will eliminate it? Geesh If I saw something that close to my horses I sure as heck would NOT be shooting them with a camera~!


I do not own miniature horses (never have, never will) and the small mare is 16 hands 1100 lbs, the big mare is 16.3 and 1400+ lbs. They are in no danger from coyotes. Even you can understand that, right?


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## Fennick (Apr 16, 2013)

That's a hybrid, not 100% pure coyote. I'm thinking it has some Scottish Collie in its ancestry from so many of it's elegant collie markings, colours and its collie tail.

Certainly a beautiful animal, that's for sure.


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## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

Yup, the DNA of an eastern coyote is: coyote, wolf, and dog. 

This site has good information.

http://theconversation.com/yes-eastern-coyotes-are-hybrids-but-the-coywolf-is-not-a-thing-50368


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## alleyyooper (Apr 22, 2005)

Nice looking fur about 75.00 stretched, fleshed and sewn here, or the whole carcass for about half that.

That is a single coyote so yes your house isn't really in a lot of danger. But there was a pack that came into a hoarse pasture about 8 miles from me and killed a show horse. then came back a week later and attacked one of the remaining horses mauling it, but it did live.

I just have to hear them howling close and I am hunting them hard.

 Al


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

Nice pics!
He's gorgeous.


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## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

alleyyooper said:


> Nice looking fur about 75.00 stretched, fleshed and sewn here, or the whole carcass for about half that.
> 
> That is a single coyote so yes your house isn't really in a lot of danger. But there was a pack that came into a hoarse pasture about 8 miles from me and killed a show horse. then came back a week later and attacked one of the remaining horses mauling it, but it did live.
> 
> ...


Do you have a link to the horse killing? I'm sure it was in your local paper and possibly on local news as it's not a common occurrence. In fact, every instance where a "coyote pack" has killed a horse that wasn't either hurt, a mini, foal, or old hasn't turned out to be true, in my experience. I'd never leave horses with special needs where coyotes could get them in the first place.

Plus my house was never in danger.


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## Steve_S (Feb 25, 2015)

I understand it may make you nervous and your aware they are out there. "Pure" Coyote's, wolves and even foxes are vanishing fast but not unexpected, which will lead to other issues. Why kill it ? They DO SERVE A PURPOSE by killing rodents and other smaller critters like ground hogs, rabbits and the like... Rabbit & Ground hog holes are a treat for horses and cattle right ! <being sarcastic> Ever watch a fox chase wild turkey's ? Now THAT is entertaining - they get confused too easily and the turkey's know it !


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## Breezy833 (Jun 17, 2013)

Nice pictures! We had a pack of coyotes kill a horse here a few years ago. There was great speculation about it.


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## gilberte (Sep 25, 2004)

Mmmmmmmmmmmmmmm, frou frou dog good!


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## AmericanStand (Jul 29, 2014)

fordy said:


> ............So , why don't you purchase a 243 with a 4 to 7x power scope and get rid of your problem(s) ? You might enjoy putting holes in your enemies ! , fordy



Because it's expensive to shoot mice with a .243 ?

Why would you kill a good coyote ? He will be replaced by something worse.

AmericanStand ,a Shepard who prefers mice hunting coyotes to sheep killing dogs......


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## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

gilberte said:


> Mmmmmmmmmmmmmmm, frou frou dog good!


I don't let my dogs run loose outside when I'm not out there with them. Anyone that would really doesn't care about their dog in my opinion. Apparently your mileage varies.


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## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

Breezy833 said:


> Nice pictures! We had a pack of coyotes kill a horse here a few years ago. There was great speculation about it.


You personally lost a horse to a coyote pack? 

Thanks. I have a good camera and lens.


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## Breezy833 (Jun 17, 2013)

Not me personally, but there was a horse in the area. I don't own any live stock.


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## Breezy833 (Jun 17, 2013)

http://www.mlive.com/news/flint/index.ssf/2015/01/coyotes_attack_kill_horse_from.html


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

AmericanStand said:


> Because it's expensive to shoot mice with a .243 ?
> 
> Why would you kill a good coyote ? He will be replaced by something worse.
> 
> AmericanStand ,a Shepard who prefers mice hunting coyotes to sheep killing dogs......


Coyotes kill sheep and goats too.


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## alleyyooper (Apr 22, 2005)

Here is the link to the horse killing. I was wrong not a show horse but a sheriffs mount horse.

http://www.mlive.com/news/flint/index.ssf/2015/01/coyotes_attack_kill_horse_from.html

Here is the link to the story on the second attack at the same farm.

http://www.mlive.com/news/flint/index.ssf/2015/01/coyotes_strike_again_at_oaklan.html

Typical the Michigan DNR refused to confirm it was coyotes that killed the horse. But a coyote hunter has killed several 60 pounders near that farm.

Me I like the extra money, couple thousand a year and that is not counting the ones we skin out, flesh stretch and sew. 

Most gotten this summer looked like they had the mange.

We don't have fox in this area any longer. Coyotes drove them out when they moved in about 1994 or 95.

 Al


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## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

Breezy833 said:


> http://www.mlive.com/news/flint/index.ssf/2015/01/coyotes_attack_kill_horse_from.html


I read about this situation, the horse was old and separated from the rest of the horses. She should have been better protected because she couldn't protect herself.

There is also a question of if the coyotes brought her down or she was already down and the coyotes came in then, the Michegan DNR can't conclude it conclusively. http://www.clickondetroit.com/news/...ve-coyotes-took-down-horse-in-oxford-township

Again, unless a horse is very old, very young, very small, or sick/hurt a pack of coyotes isn't likely to do anything. 

Thank you for responding.


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## Lisa in WA (Oct 11, 2004)

arabian knight said:


> Ya really, bang, and he is gone. Goodbye to a potential problem, why worry about something that a nice shot in the head will eliminate it? Geesh If I saw something that close to my horses I sure as heck would NOT be shooting them with a camera~!


I would have thought you would know that real horses in good health nothing to fear from coyotes. 
Guess what?! We have WOLVES near our horses and have no problems with them. 
If you're going to wet your pants every time you see a predator that's doing nothing wrong, and start banging away like a city boy, you'd better go back to the burbs.


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## Nevada (Sep 9, 2004)

Fennick said:


> That's a hybrid, not 100% pure coyote. I'm thinking it has some Scottish Collie in its ancestry from so many of it's elegant collie markings, colours and its collie tail.
> 
> Certainly a beautiful animal, that's for sure.


Kind of has the color and tail of a fox.


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## AmericanStand (Jul 29, 2014)

Bearfootfarm said:


> Coyotes kill sheep and goats too.



Really? Bet ya a buck those mice eating ones don't. 
In fact id bet a buck you won't see a mature sheep or goat taken down by a coyote. 
In my years of raising sheep I've shot Thousands of predators that were attacking them. 
All dogs. 
The only time coyotes would be a problem is when small lambs are unprotected. 
And then the dogs would probably get there first.


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## AmericanStand (Jul 29, 2014)

LisaInN.Idaho said:


> I would have thought you would know that real horses in good health nothing to fear from coyotes.
> Guess what?! We have WOLVES near our horses and have no problems with them.
> If you're going to wet your pants every time you see a predator that's doing nothing wrong, and start banging away like a city boy, you'd better go back to the burbs.



Lol it's those big scary howls and yips. 
Gets them city boys shaking in their boots.


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

AmericanStand said:


> Really? Bet ya a buck those mice eating ones don't.
> In fact id bet a buck *you won't see a mature sheep or goat taken down by a coyote. *
> 
> * In my years of raising sheep I've shot Thousands of predators that were attacking them. All dogs. *
> ...


No, you haven't shot "thousands of predators, all dogs". 
Even if that were true (which it isn't) , it has nothing to do with what I said.

Coyotes don't feed on just one type of prey. They are opportunists.

Those that eat mice will eat anything, just as all of them do. 

I also didn't use the word "mature" so let's dispense with the word games too, since you're also incorrect on that statement:

http://modernfarmer.com/2013/08/farmers-vs-coyotes-do-bounties-work/



> Coyotes kill over 135,000 sheep a year, and are found in every state in the continental United States. You can't stop coyotes, only hope to contain them.





> The foremost predators of livestock in the country, coyotes killed more than 135,000 sheep in 2005, according to the USDAâs National Agricultural Statistics Service.
> 
> That puts them right atop the list of any sheep producerâs problems, alongside â or above, depending who you talk to â animal health and market volatility.





> When coyotes first showed up on his farm in Virginiaâs Shenandoah Valley, Leo Tammi -â currently the treasurer of the American Lamb Board â found he could keep them at bay simply by walking his dog around his pasture, laying down a scent barrier.
> 
> *Now, he says, coyotes in the area are known to barge right on through a dogâs scent barrier, kill the dog and move on to the sheep flock*.





> According to the National Agricultural Statistics Service, 224,200 sheep were killed in the U.S. by predators in 2004, comprising approximately 37% of all bovine deaths for that year.[7] The sheep lost in that year represented a sum total of 18.3 million dollars for sheep producers.[7]
> 
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Domestic_sheep_predation
> 
> *Coyotes were responsible for 60.5% of all deaths*, with the next largest being *domestic dogs at 13.3%*.[7]


These reports show that for many decades, Coyotes have been the number one predator of sheep and goats:

http://usda.mannlib.cornell.edu/Man...6CFE94DA24205590BB34E33F44A55?documentID=1627

http://usda.mannlib.cornell.edu/usda/current/sgpl/sgpl-05-05-2000.txt


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## JJ Grandits (Nov 10, 2002)

Very interesting thread. My son in law did a genetic study on the Eastern Coyote. His conclusions followed the same thought as the the article IP cited.
In the escarpment behind the house coyotes den up every year. My son would go back there to check out the bones outside the dens. One good thing about coyotes, they LOVE feral cats. So far they have not been a problem for us.
When they first came into the area the fox population took a nosedive but has since recovered.
As I only shoot what I eat I have no desire to hunt coyote, however if they do become a problem then it is another story. The coyotes do a good job of cleaning up the road killed deer.


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## alleyyooper (Apr 22, 2005)

Personally I like the money the pelts fetch and spend a lot of time hunting them with friends in several surrounding counties. Until this year we had a season for coyotes just like deer and small game. Due to pressure from city managers across Michigan the once closed season in the summer was lifted by the DRC, some regulations for night hunting were changed also.

Several years back I was stopped by a pair of Ladies in the UP while walking the side of the road back to my deer camp cabin one evening. After how is the deer hunting question I was told to shoot every coyote I saw they were getting so thick they were coming into the village 2 miles down the road and killing peoples pets they let out to do their business in the evening before bed. 
Problem with that then in the UP the coyote season was closed Nov. 15 thru the 30th, for fear some troll would think a wolf was a coyote and shoot them.

*Ya'll can go all tree hugger and snuggle up to the coyotes all you wish*, Me I will keep hunting them as long as it is legal and make some spare jingle doing it, along with having a good time. We've been called and now hunt 20 farms in 5 counties, dairy, beef and sheep farms.

I also have a good recipe for coyote grilled and cooked in a crock pot if ya'll want it.

 Al


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## Txsteader (Aug 22, 2005)

We have a pack that runs the bayou behind our house. Will occasionally hear them behind the house but they usually keep their distance. They'll hunt rabbits and other small critters & I'll sometimes find their scat near the house. We don't have livestock anymore so I don't worry about them. The only nuisance is their yapping/howling.

A few firecrackers will usually send them on their way.


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## Bellyman (Jul 6, 2013)

Txsteader said:


> We have a pack that runs the bayou behind our house. Will occasionally hear them behind the house but they usually keep their distance. They'll hunt rabbits and other small critters & I'll sometimes find their scat near the house. We don't have livestock anymore so I don't worry about them. The only nuisance is their yapping/howling.
> 
> A few firecrackers will usually send them on their way.


Hope it's not out of line to comment in a bit different direction, but...

A friend of mine that owns an RV park that has a large pond has a very nice collection of ducks, which most everyone just loves. But they have the occasional pair of geese that think they want to take up residence in such a wonderful pond. Compared to the ducks, the geese are very messy and not nearly so welcome. A few well aimed bottle rockets do wonders at encouraging those geese to find another place to call home.

Some former neighbors that had horses had really good fences that made it difficult for animals such as foxes, coyotes, dogs, that kind of thing, to even get into the pastures in the first place. Those fences weren't cheap but they were quite effective at keeping in their horses and keeping out animals that weren't wanted. Deer could get in and out pretty easily but they were pretty much the exception. Gates were mostly placed near buildings and people areas where wild animals were more reluctant to go. Not a bad setup.

FWIW, I thought the pictures showed a rather pretty looking animal. I'd hate to kill it without any other reason than because it was there. If it was causing a problem, yes, but I'm not one that likes to kill just for the sake of killing. Honestly, if they would keep down the rabbits, possums, skunks, groundhogs, and similar pests, I wouldn't mind having them around as they might save me some work.


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## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

alleyyooper said:


> Personally I like the money the pelts fetch and spend a lot of time hunting them with friends in several surrounding counties. Until this year we had a season for coyotes just like deer and small game. Due to pressure from city managers across Michigan the once closed season in the summer was lifted by the DRC, some regulations for night hunting were changed also.
> 
> Several years back I was stopped by a pair of Ladies in the UP while walking the side of the road back to my deer camp cabin one evening. After how is the deer hunting question I was told to shoot every coyote I saw they were getting so thick they were coming into the village 2 miles down the road and killing peoples pets they let out to do their business in the evening before bed.
> Problem with that then in the UP the coyote season was closed Nov. 15 thru the 30th, for fear some troll would think a wolf was a coyote and shoot them.
> ...


Good for you. They aren't an issue on my farm, when they are I'll take them out. Until then what I do on my farm is my business. 

No one said word one to you about hunting or trapping coyote, but you had to start the "tree hugger" name calling, huh? Fordy tried to start crap with the "buy a gun" schtick and implying I don't have one and that's why I took pictures rather than kill it. I'm not anti gun, never been never will be. 

Mind your own property, and I'll mind my over 350 acres. Got it?


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## AmericanStand (Jul 29, 2014)

Bearfootfarm said:


> No, you haven't shot "thousands of predators, all dogs".
> 
> Even if that were true (which it isn't) , it has nothing to do with what I said.
> 
> ...



Why do you feel entitled to lie about me ?
I most certainly have shot thousands of dogs off my herd. 
It's not iffy it's not almost it's thousands. 
You see unlike you I'm talking from real actual experiance. 
And the problem with the so called facts you presented is they were collected from. People like you. 
People that find a dead sheep and a canine track and blame it on coyotes cause they can't blame it on their little fluffy wuffy. 
But for years I shot them and drugged their worthless carcusses to the edge of the field.
Most years that added up to about 2/3 a mile of dead dogs. 
Now I'm guessing that's about a 1000 dogs. And while it's true I didn't keep records and it might be less. I Am sure enough to bet the farm it was more than 100. 
And I did that year after year so yes. I shot thousands. 
If you wanna call me a liar Let me know where you wanna meet so you can say it to my face. 
Other wise feel free to admit you were wrong and a liar.


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## MO_cows (Aug 14, 2010)

AmericanStand said:


> Really? Bet ya a buck those mice eating ones don't.
> In fact id bet a buck you won't see a mature sheep or goat taken down by a coyote.
> In my years of raising sheep I've shot Thousands of predators that were attacking them.
> All dogs.
> ...


Just because your resident population of coyotes behaves a certain way, doesn't mean squat to somebody else. Coyotes are smart and adaptable. Different populations will behave differently. From raiding garbage, to picking off pet foo foo dogs and cats, to attacking while a cow is calving and getting the calf before it's all the way born. All those behaviors have been documented in different coyote populations. There is no "one size fits all" for coyotes. 

We went 25 years free ranging chickens, the worst losses from dumped dogs. (Or the birdbrains drowning themselves in the stock tank with their own water fount 50 feet away.) This year, we have a coyote around who hunts in the daytime and has been coming quite close in and picking them off. Couple nights ago, a few coyotes were having a yip-fest right across the road, when I opened the front door, they shut up. That's coming too close. So our local coyote population has learned some unfortunate things, lost some of their wariness and we need to take out the trouble makers.


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## 1948CaseVAI (May 12, 2014)

In western Kansas we shoot coyotes for sport. In other words we shoot them just for the sheer fun of shooting them and watching them fall. Try it - it's fun!


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

AmericanStand said:


> Why do you feel entitled to lie about me ?
> I most certainly have shot thousands of dogs off my herd.
> It's not iffy it's not almost it's thousands.
> You see unlike you I'm talking from real actual experiance.
> ...


To shoot a thousand dogs, you'd have to shoot 100 every year for 10 years, which means one about every three days. You said "thousands" which would be one every other day for 10 years. You're not going to convince me that is true.

I raised sheep for over 10 years and never had to shoot anything.
I've shot 2 dogs that were killing my neighbor's goats and chickens in the last 14 years.

If you claim Coyotes don't kill sheep and only eat mice, you really can't expect me to believe anything you say after that.

I also don't think you know more about it than the folks that have kept the statistics and data for decades.


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## AmericanStand (Jul 29, 2014)

MoCows I agree with everything you said. 
I get it. 
Some coyotes sometimes covers a lot of ground. 
And yes about anything can happen. But I'm still ready to bet BFF that buck.


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## AmericanStand (Jul 29, 2014)

Bearfootfarm said:


> To shoot a thousand dogs, you'd have to shoot 100 every year for 10 years, which means one about every three days. You said "thousands" which would be one every other day for 10 years. You're not going to convince me that is true.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Well one every three days would have been a pleasure. More like 6 to 25 two or three times a week. 
You see dogs tend to run sheep in packs. And luckily the way my sheep farm was situated I could run a pack back and forth across the field till I had them all. 
And ten years ? You think I was some fly by night that doesn't stick with things. ? I raised sheep for way longer than that. 
Also I never claimed coyotes don't eat sheep. I said I'd bet the mice eating ones don't and that I doubted that you would see one take down a mature sheep. 

And I have no doubt that an actual shepherd in the field who really pays attention to such things knows far more about stuff than some paper pushing bureaucrats in an office in downtown Washington DC.


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## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

1948CaseVAI said:


> In western Kansas we shoot coyotes for sport. In other words we shoot them just for the sheer fun of shooting them and watching them fall. Try it - it's fun!


Based on what you've posted over the years, it sickens me that you were once law enforcement.


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## AmericanStand (Jul 29, 2014)

IP doesn't it seem odd that a homesteader would destroy the natural world for fun ?


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## mmoetc (Oct 9, 2012)

I guess I was raised differently. I was taught to respect all life and never kill anything unless there was a purpose. I've killed my share of beasts both domestic and wild and I can say I never garnered pleasure from any of the deaths. Satisfaction at a well placed shot, yes, The knowledge that a predator will no longer threaten my livestock, yes. But pleasure in the act of killing for killings sake, no.


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## Lisa in WA (Oct 11, 2004)

Irish Pixie said:


> Based on what you've posted over the years, it sickens me that you were once law enforcement.


Yeah, when someone verbalizes something like that, you are left to wonder what else he likes to shoot just for the sheer fun of seeing them fall and die.

Not fit to be an LEO.


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## alleyyooper (Apr 22, 2005)

They kill a lot of fawns also, Had a pack kill and adult deer in the next door horse pasture in the day lite. Old doe has been around here for a long time with a bad front leg, was seen in the act.

 Al


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## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

alleyyooper said:


> They kill a lot of fawns also, Had a pack kill and adult deer in the next door horse pasture in the day lite. Old doe has been around here for a long time with a bad front leg, was seen in the act.
> 
> Al


Isn't that what they're supposed to do? Everything has to eat.


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## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

LisaInN.Idaho said:


> Yeah, when someone verbalizes something like that, you are left to wonder what else he likes to shoot just for the sheer fun of seeing them fall and die.
> 
> Not fit to be an LEO.


Remember this post? It's not just fun to sport shoot coyotes, it's fun to tear gas _people_ too. 



1948CaseVAI said:


> I deployed gas roughly 25 to 30 times over the course of my police career, and I can tell you for sure that if the layout of the area is right and the winds cooperate it can be a terrific lot of fun. The best is when someone in the crowd you are dispersing does not know how gas baseball grenades work (they burn lightning hot inside which is what makes the smoke that carries the "gas") and they pick one up to try to throw it back to the police. They sure do holler, scream and cry! They got some serious burns but we generally tried to avoid arresting them because we did not want to obligate the city for the bill to have them treated. Of course sometimes they were instigators and we had no choice but to take them down, get them treated and lock them up.
> 
> Of course if the physical layout of the scene is poor and/or the winds do not cooperate you can end up gassing yourself and your troops, which leads to some comical times as well.





Irish Pixie said:


> I guess I've never thought about cops that like to hurt people and watch them suffer. I wish I didn't know now...


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## po boy (Jul 12, 2010)

I watched one coyote try to grab a grown deer's throat several times and the deer jumped in my pond to get away. The coyote knew what he was doing and I believe he would have taken it down. I fired a couple shots and ran it off.


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## AmericanStand (Jul 29, 2014)

If you think the world is going to come to a end because you lose a chicken or goat to a coyote you need a better fence. 
The up side of this is that if you build a good fox and coyote proof fence it will keep the dogs out and slow the people up a little.


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

AmericanStand said:


> Well one every three days would have been a pleasure. More like * 6 to 25 two or three times a week.*
> You see dogs tend to run sheep in packs. And luckily the way my sheep farm was situated I could run a pack back and forth across the field till I had them all.
> And ten years ? You think I was some fly by night that doesn't stick with things. ? I raised sheep for way longer than that.
> Also I never claimed coyotes don't eat sheep. I said I'd bet the mice eating ones don't and that I doubted that you would see one take down a mature sheep.
> ...


You've now gone from one or two every three days to as many as *75 per week 
*
You can repeat the claims as many times as you like but the numbers simply aren't realistic nor believable.


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## Lisa in WA (Oct 11, 2004)

Irish Pixie said:


> Remember this post? It's not just fun to sport shoot coyotes, it's fun to tear gas _people_ too.


No words. This person illustrates why better screening is needed to become an LEO.


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## Lisa in WA (Oct 11, 2004)

po boy said:


> I watched one coyote try to grab a grown deer's throat several times and the deer jumped in my pond to get away. The coyote knew what he was doing and I believe he would have taken it down. I fired a couple shots and ran it off.


Aren't deer natural prey for coyotes? 
Nature is pretty scary stuff...might want to move to the burbs.


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## po boy (Jul 12, 2010)

LisaInN.Idaho said:


> Aren't deer natural prey for coyotes?
> Nature is pretty scary stuff...might want to move to the burbs.


Not for me.

Do you kill roaches, fleas or ticks?


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## Lisa in WA (Oct 11, 2004)

po boy said:


> Not for me.
> 
> Do you kill roaches, fleas or ticks?


I don't have any. If they were on my person or my home, yes I would. And I have no problems with shooting a coyote that is threatening my stock. But I don't shoot anything for giggles and certainly not for killing deer, mice, etc. which is what they are meant to do. 

Can you see the difference there?


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## AmericanStand (Jul 29, 2014)

Bearfootfarm said:


> You've now gone from one or two every three days to as many as *75 per week
> 
> *
> 
> You can repeat the claims as many times as you like but the numbers simply aren't realistic nor believable.



I take it that along with not understanding basic English you don't understand basic math. 
You certainly have no understanding of hunting. 
It's not a smooth even thing it is lumpy. 
And while there may have been a week or two that I shot 75 dogs it wasn't every week. 
There were other weeks I didn't shoot any. 
Most years by the time I plowed again the dogs laid end to end would stretch a substantial majority of the way along 3600 foot feel edge. 
I am guessing when I say that is probably about 1000 but I'm Pretty darn sure it's over 100. 
Dogs not coyotes or some weird hybrid. 
Sorry my life is not lived in your yard but that's the way it is here. 
And that is why I am such an advocate of building great fences


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## po boy (Jul 12, 2010)

LisaInN.Idaho said:


> I don't have any. If they were on my person or my home, yes I would. And I have no problems with shooting a coyote that is threatening my stock. But I don't shoot anything for giggles and certainly not for killing deer, mice, etc. which is what they are meant to do.
> 
> Can you see the difference there?


I have never shot anything just for giggles. Fact is, I have killed a grand total of 2 animals over the last 48 years.


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## Lisa in WA (Oct 11, 2004)

po boy said:


> I have never shot anything just for giggles. Fact is, I have killed a grand total of 2 animals over the last 48 years.


Well good. Then we agree on something.


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## po boy (Jul 12, 2010)

LisaInN.Idaho said:


> Well good. Then we agree on something.


OOPS! I killed a possum, make that three.


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## Lisa in WA (Oct 11, 2004)

po boy said:


> OOPS! I killed a possum, make that three.


For fun?



1948CaseVAI said:


> In western Kansas we shoot coyotes for sport. In other words we shoot them just for the sheer fun of shooting them and watching them fall. Try it - it's fun!


So I'm assuming then, that you don't approve of this post?


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## Fennick (Apr 16, 2013)

I don't believe people who make extravagant posts like that and I don't believe they are who they claim to be. I think they are sick individuals who make up imaginary stories about sadism for shock effect. Telling stories about nasty things they fantasize about doing but have never done because they don't have the guts or the wherewithal and opportunity. The shocked reactions of revulsion and disgust from their readers is what they want, it's about all they can get but it adds fuel to their fire. It makes them happy if they believe they've made other people unhappy. 

I also don't believe somebody who had ever truly been a law enforcement officer would casually boast about their law enforcement sadism on internet forums. A real LEO would know that their self-incrimination online will eventually get read by or be reported to other LEO's with more scruples who know the right authorities to report it to to get the sadist investigated. What they post online can come back to bite them in the butt and put them behind bars if it's true, and sometimes even if it's not true. A real LEO knows that.


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## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

Fennick said:


> I don't believe people who make extravagant posts like that and I don't believe they are who they claim to be. I think they are sick individuals who make up imaginary stories about sadism for shock effect. Telling stories about nasty things they fantasize about doing but have never done because they don't have the guts or the wherewithal and opportunity. The shocked reactions of revulsion and disgust from their readers is what they want, it's about all they can get but it adds fuel to their fire. It makes them happy if they believe they've made other people unhappy.
> 
> I also don't believe somebody who had ever truly been a law enforcement officer would casually boast about their law enforcement sadism on internet forums. A real LEO would know that their self-incrimination online will eventually get read by or be reported to other LEO's with more scruples who know the right authorities to report it to to get the sadist investigated. What they post online can come back to bite them in the butt and put them behind bars if it's true, and sometimes even if it's not true. A real LEO knows that.



I wish I could like this post more than once.


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## po boy (Jul 12, 2010)

Irish Pixie said:


> I wish I could like this post more than once.


Since you forgot to like it, I liked it for you,


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## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

po boy said:


> Since you forgot to like it, I liked it for you,


Dang phone. Thank you.


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## po boy (Jul 12, 2010)

Irish Pixie said:


> Dang phone. Thank you.


WOW! U have phones up there!


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

LisaInN.Idaho said:


> Aren't deer natural prey for coyotes?
> Nature is pretty scary stuff...might want to move to the burbs.


With Deer it's mostly fawns
The adults can generally outrun them and are pretty dangerous with their hooves and antlers.


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

AmericanStand said:


> I take it that along with not understanding basic English you don't understand basic math.
> You certainly have no understanding of hunting.
> It's not a smooth even thing it is lumpy.
> And while there may have been a week or two that I shot 75 dogs it wasn't every week.
> ...


You said "thousands", and if your fences were good you wouldn't have been shooting "thousands" of dogs.

I still don't believe you shot even 100.


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## alleyyooper (Apr 22, 2005)

Utah pays a bounty on them. Fellow I know there needed new tires for his Jeep. They came to almost $400 each out the door
$600 worth for the weekend. Good dent in a new set of tires.











 Al


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## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

po boy said:


> WOW! U have phones up there!


They're smart too.


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## AmericanStand (Jul 29, 2014)

Almost a hundred bucks a piece bounty ?
I'm. Impressed !
Now coyotes are worth that kinda money everybody will want some !


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## AmericanStand (Jul 29, 2014)

Bearfootfarm said:


> You said "thousands", and if your fences were good you wouldn't have been shooting "thousands" of dogs.
> 
> 
> 
> I still don't believe you shot even 100.



Lol yeah we all know about your perfect world where farmers don't overspray , all cops are perfect and dogs don't chase sheep. 
You have made it obvious in the past that you don't believe anything that doesn't happen to you. 
Well the world doesn't work that way. 
Down Arizona way they have scorpions but not much kudzu. 
Alabama has Lots of kudzu not so many scorpion but they make it up with black widows. 
Up Alaska way the only wild rattle snake I saw arrived in a boxcar but down in Texas I've been to rattlesnake roundup festivals. 
So things vary. 

I'm willing to back up my claims with witnesses if you care to come visit.


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

AmericanStand said:


> Lol yeah we all know about your perfect world where farmers don't overspray , all cops are perfect and dogs don't chase sheep.
> You have made it obvious in the past that you don't believe anything that doesn't happen to you.
> Well the world doesn't work that way.
> Down Arizona way they have scorpions but not much kudzu.
> ...


I'll settle for some news articles on the terrible "dog problems" where you supposedly "killed thousands". I'd also accept a *single* study that shows a Coyote that eats mice will not kill anything else. 

Surely you weren't the only one controlling the entire population, so there should be some statistics. I've shown the documentation which supported my statements. 

None of the other things you're now bringing up to divert attention have anything to do with your claim.


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## alleyyooper (Apr 22, 2005)

Bounty isn't 100 dollars per. He had a whole bunch more piled on his Jeep carrier and spare tire in the picture he sent. I'll have to ask him what the bounty is. Now the fur if nice like the op picture posted it is worth almost 100 if you treat it right.

found this
*The DWR predator-control program provides incentives for hunters to remove coyotes. Participants receive $50 for each properly documented coyote that they kill in Utah.*

 Al


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## AmericanStand (Jul 29, 2014)

Bearfootfarm you are setting up a straw man lie and asking me to prove it. 
I think it's pretty clear that most people don't concider fluffy to be a problem. But with the he is turned loose to run with a dozen of his friends he is. 
And I doubt you're going to find a lot of news coverage when people are firm believers in SSS.


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## AmericanStand (Jul 29, 2014)

By the way thousands over 25 years only requires 5 packs a year.


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## Cornhusker (Mar 20, 2003)

That's a healthy looking coyote.
Coyotes around here have suffered with mange for the last few years, but the ones I'm seeing this year look a lot better.
I don't like coyotes particularly, but I do like to hear them singing in the evening.


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

AmericanStand said:


> Bearfootfarm you are setting up a straw man lie and *asking me to prove it*.
> I think it's pretty clear that most people don't concider fluffy to be a problem. But with the he is turned loose to run with a dozen of his friends he is.
> And I doubt you're going to find a lot of news coverage when people are firm believers in SSS.


If dogs were such a problem where you were that you averaged killing one every 4-5 days, there should be documentation.



> By the way *thousands* over 25 years only requires 5 packs a year.


It's still an average of one every 4-5 days to reach (barely) "thousands", or 5 packs of at least 16 dogs. 

I don't believe you killed 80 dogs a year for 25 years.

I also find it a little odd that one with "25 years" experience raising sheep has no posts in the livestock forums here that I've seen, but that has nothing to do with dog or Coyote depredation. 

I'm not asking for proof of any "strawman" anything.
I'd just like to see some for your claims though since your numbers still don't seem realistic.


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## AmericanStand (Jul 29, 2014)

Once again not my problem you don't have a grip on reality.


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

AmericanStand said:


> Once again not my problem you don't have a grip on reality.


I didn't expect anything more.


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## Miss Kay (Mar 31, 2012)

Getting back to the original story, here's one we killed last year after he got a calf as it was being born. This is South Texas and we have lots of them. If we can get the calves up and running with mom then we have no problems. The herd comes together to protect them and no the horses don't even seem to realize they are around but they sure make a dent in the cats around here.


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## Alaska (Jun 16, 2012)

Bearfootfarm said:


> I'll settle for some news articles on the terrible "dog problems" where you supposedly "killed thousands". I'd also accept a *single* study that shows a Coyote that eats mice will not kill anything else.
> 
> Surely you weren't the only one controlling the entire population, so there should be some statistics. I've shown the documentation which supported my statements.
> 
> None of the other things you're now bringing up to divert attention have anything to do with your claim.


 Where the hell did all those dogs come from?


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## AmericanStand (Jul 29, 2014)

You know I used to wonder about that too. 
When I started shooting I thought I'd shoot a Pack or two and a few strays and be done with it. 
Over the years I collected collars from as much as 100 miles away. 
In a conversation with one owner from about 70 miles away he swore he had been **** hunting thirty miles farther away two nights before when he let the dog loose. 
Using that as a maximum range there are probably two million people within that range. 
That's a lot of unwanted dogs and pups within a years time.


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

AmericanStand said:


> You know I used to wonder about that too.
> When I started shooting I thought I'd shoot a Pack or two and a few strays and be done with it.
> Over the years I collected collars from as much as 100 miles away.
> In a conversation with one owner from about 70 miles away he swore he had been **** hunting thirty miles farther away two nights before when he let the dog loose.
> ...


It's a lot of something for sure.


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## Fishindude (May 19, 2015)

I admire coyotes. They are a really smart animal that is very challenging to both hunt and trap. I've always said, they are about ten times smarter than any old buck deer.

At the same time, I like to keep their numbers in check and will shoot them given the opportunity. Keep a .223 and ammo right by the back door at all times, just for these guys. Also hunt them some, but by far my most effective tactic is snaring them after we get a little snow. Got nine off the farm a couple winters ago. 

I think coyotes kill a whole lot more fawn deer than we realize, so if you want good deer numbers, you need to do you part to eliminate some coyotes.


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## AmericanStand (Jul 29, 2014)

Fishindude said:


> I think coyotes kill a whole lot more fawn deer than we realize, so if you want good deer numbers, you need to do you part to eliminate some coyotes.



If that's true we need a LOT more coyotes here !


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