# English Shepherd



## hillbilly123

Hi Folks,

I have a small farm (12 acres), and have chickens, sheep, and horses. I don't have a huge predator problem as my whole place is fenced in, but I do get the occasional stray dog and see coyotes on occasion. I do have allot of **** / possum and they regularly come around the house and chicken coupe. Been trying to trap them, but the buggers keep escaping my live-traps somehow. To make a long story short, I want a good dog to keep outside to keep those run away. 

This dog should be good with the livestock and children, and trainable by a novice. I think it would be good if the dog could also help move the sheep from field to field and keep it with the ewes when they lamb. When doing my research, I keep coming back to the English Shepherd for some reason. Can anyone comment on their experience with this breed and tell me if they are good for a beginner with chickens, sheep, etc? 

I need to highlight the "beginner" requirement here, need a dog that is somewhat of a natural around the farm critters and easily trainable.


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## BarbadosSheep

I have no personal experience but have heard wonderful things about that breed. I think it would be a great dog for all that you want, except for keeping it with the ewes when they lamb. English shepherds are herding dogs and do have prey drive. The only dog I would trust with lambing is one of the livestock guardian dog breeds, and only one that is fully mature (over 2 years old). Any dog that is taught to herd your sheep (or has the drive to herd the sheep) is not going to be a dog that can be left with the sheep full time to watch over them. Herding instincts are nothing more than modified prey drive and left unmonitored, that herding instinct can lead to stock chasing and mauling.


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## BlueCollarBelle

This is Bingo. He's an English Shepherd/Farm Collie/ ?. He doesn't have a "job" since we have no livestock but he does a great job keeping up with our comings and goings as well as holding down the couch and the coolest shady spots in the yard! I have heard nothing but excellent reviews of English shepherds from owners who do have livestock and homesteads to guard. They are happy and reliable dogs of a convenient size (Bingo is about 45 lbs) and since the breed is not held to a narrow standard, the variations can be interesting. Good luck in your search, I hope you settle on a English Shepherd. I don't think you'll regret it!









I forgot to mention that he is easily trainable and one of the smartest dogs I have ever owned. He's wonderfully patient with kids and is kind to the kitties. I've never seen him show a herding instinct but he's not really in the environment to use it. He has more of a companion/ guardian personality.


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## alpidarkomama

Ours is a companion pet too, and just 16 weeks old. So far, it's been a great experience. He learns new things very quickly, is an excellent companion to our kids (ages 4-9), barks appropriately (and does not bark when he knows who is at the door!), he's a very mellow puppy (we were expecting puppy mayhem; not at all!), he eats with and cleans the cat, he's a little too barky at the chickens and I'm not sure I'd leave him alone near the coop. He's just been a dear. I'm not really particularly a dog person, but I absolutely adore this dog!


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## Mickey

I guess I'm the disenter here, but I wouldn't wish one of these blockheads on my worst enemy. Yep we have one and she's a complete pain in the patooty. I have goats and no way would I trust her alone with them; especially the kiddles. I can have hens loose in the yard and she's basically okay with them, but if one starts to run away from her then the chase is on. I can call her off, but what I'm saying is that I don't trust her alone with ANY of my other animals.
And in the house-forget it, she's like a bull in a china shop. 
I could go on and on giving you a dozen reasons why you shouldn't get one of these idiots, but I'll just leave it there. If you want to know anything else just ask.


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## wendle

I haven't owned one, but have worked with 6 on stockdog training. The ones I've seen for the most part have little to no herding interest, so would probably suit your needs by potentially being safe9with training to have loose around the other animals. Out of the 6 one made a fair herding dog, but probably too soft to be able to handle ewes with lambs. 2 were extremely rough on sheep and had to be put down for people aggression. The other 3 had no interest in herding but were otherwise nice dogs. These were all unrelated dogs. Might work to keep smaller varmints away, but not likely enough to take on a few coyotes to protect the sheep.


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## Mickey

Wendle is right, there's no way these shepherds could hold their own against a coyote. And to tell you the truth, mine is such a wimp she'd run for the door if ever faced with one. Heck she doesn't like to go to the barn with me on windy nights because she's skeered of the noises the wind is making. LOL
My little Scottie has way more heart. She's not afraid of anything and I believe she'd give her life to protect me. Unfortunately she's just too small to be very effective against anything much bigger than a rat. But don't try to tell her that! LOL


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## Maura

From my reading I'd say that an English shepherd would be a nice dog on the farm. For your needs, I might consider a well bred Dobermann. Raised as a family pet they are very trustworthy and very easily trained. If you are willing to put the time into training the dog, he will be an excellent pet. He will guard the property rather than specifically guard the chickens or sheep, but he will also protect that which he sees as part of his family. He won't roam and will respect the fence. He will be a gentleman in the house. Just make sure he is outside during the hours raccoons usually come around, midnight till 2 am or even later. Dobes are people dogs and not "outside" dogs, but they should be comfortable staying outside for extended time periods (like midnight till the ***** go home).

A Beauvier also would be a good dog. They are not as high strung as Dobes tend to be, have powerful jaws, are protective, slower to train but very trainable. Some of them still herd, but in this country they are never bred for herding. Their method of guarding is to first bark. If you don't get the hint they will knock you down. If you keep coming they will bite. The sheer size of them is in itself a deterrent. Like a Dobe (like most dogs) they are family oriented and will fight to the death to protect family- not a strictly outside dog but independent enough to have extended outside time.

My border collie is a good watchdog, not much barking but will run off *****. However, I would never put him with the livestock unless I want to move them. The donkeys protect the sheep.


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## ajaxlucy

I have an English Shepherd who is very useful as a sheep mover, chore partner, raccoon killer, and all round "supervisor". Very, very smart and very, very glad to work: I can point out a chicken to her and she'll catch it and hold it down for me until I get there without hurting it. I can take her out even with the new lambs and if there are problems, she sometimes finds them before I do. She will herd if allowed. When I'm not there, though, I don't leave her out with the sheep unless she's on the other side of the electric fence. She's got too much predator drive for me to trust her alone for hours. When we're done with outside work, she lies down calmly in the house.

I have another dog, half ES/half rough collie who has no herding instinct. He can live outside for months with poultry and sheep without bothering them. Mentally, he is not tough enough to stand up to predators except maybe hawks. If any trouble shows up, he just barks and the English Shepherd goes barreling out the door to fix the problem. 

The half ES dog is very friendly. If a thief were to come in the yard, he'd probably wag his tail in welcome. My pure ES girl would bite him. She doesn't like anyone on the property who hasn't been invited by us.


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## jersey girl

We got two dogs for the chores. Our English Shepherd is a great herder. I only have to point to an animal and she separates and moves just that one, or the whole herd if we tell her. (cows or sheep) She also herds cats in her off hours....cats dont like that much. We have great pyrenese dogs to protect livestock. No complaints about them, we hear coyotes but have never lost anything to them. Both are very protective of property and family.
Good luck


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## BarbadosSheep

I think from reading the replies you will see that some English shepherds are perfect, others are not so good. It's largly due to genetics. Be really careful where you get your dog. Make sure the pups parents are what you'd like to see in your own dog. This is true for any dog though.


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## hillbilly123

Thanks for the pointers folks. We lost a duck to a **** last night so need to get a dog soon. I found an ES breeder who raises her pups around goats, cats, chickens, and turkeys. I reckon dogs are like people, some are good and others are not. Luck of the draw I guess.


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## wolffeathers

"Some" of it is luck of the draw, but be sure to meet the parents!!


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## wendle

hillbilly123 said:


> Thanks for the pointers folks. We lost a duck to a **** last night so need to get a dog soon. I found an ES breeder who raises her pups around goats, cats, chickens, and turkeys. I reckon dogs are like people, some are good and others are not. Luck of the draw I guess.


Raising a dog around livestock isn't the same as breeding well bred dogs by a long shot. Ask for videos of parents or see them work in person . I notice quite a few breeders(not just ES) out there put some good words on the internet, but it seems very few show actual working videos or even working pictures of their dogs. In the meantime put your ducks in a **** proof cage at night. If you don't have a good set up even dog crates work in a pinch(don't crowd), but be sure to put some good bedding like wood chips in since they are so messy.


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## BlueCollarBelle

Also, make sure that the breeder is clear on what you're looking for in a puppy. A breeder worth her salt will be able to recommend a puppy from her litters that has a personality that will match your needs (if there is one in the litter). To most outsiders a 12 week old puppy is just cute but the breeder should have sent enough time with them to read the personalities pretty well.


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## cathleenc

I think a bunch of us have es/collie/rough collie pups from the same batch of litters, sold by Melissa here on HT a few years back. Turns out there were two different fathers involved which would explain the very different fur/body/temperment types.

I have one of those mixes and she's lovely with all animals, would not herd, is not a bit hard. Kills rodents and possums in a heartbeat or less. 

I have a friend in Wisconsin who runs a dairy farm - she uses English Shepherds to move cows and work her farm. She thinks they are the best cow dogs she's yet to own.

We adore our ES/collie mix! She teaches us so much about what is going on around us and discovers problems wayyyy before we do.


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## Zeet_Cranberry

We are in our first week with two ES pups. So far so good...though they're young and just getting to know things. The breeder we got them from has chickens, ducks and goats. They do a lot of puppy analysis and work hard to place pups in the right situation. Now it's up to us to stay consistent on their training.


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## hillbilly123

We got an ES puppy too, so far so good just general puppy stuff with him. 

Same here with a breeder that raised him around goats, chickens, turkey's, etc. So far he is pretty smart and does not bother the stock. Time will tell.....


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## Zeet_Cranberry

Our two are doing well....but why do they insist on eating chicken poop????? They act like it's candy....


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## SAHM

thank you for this thread, we are looking at this breed as well


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