# Age for weathering a ram?



## Micknleb (Jun 1, 2014)

We had five lambs this spring, all rams. Four of them will either be sold as intact rams (three are pure bred white dorpers) or sent to freezer camp. We are thinking of wethering one of them as a companion for our ram. I have a couple of questions. First is it necessary to have a wether for a ram? We have more experience with goats than sheep, and we have a wether for our buck. The ram is in a contiguous pen with the buck and wether. Second, at 7 weeks, is it too late to band a ram lamb? Finally, would it be dangerous to put a young wether in with a year-old ram? 

The info I have read so far recommends banding within the first 7 days - that seems awfully early. I wouldn't be sure the testicles had dropped. 

Any advice is welcome. Thank you.


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## Muleman (Nov 8, 2013)

Not to late, but I do not recommend banding. Cut the bottom of the sack off, maybe the lower 1/4 or less, just enough for them to fit out really, so think of a paper sack and you are just cutting the very bottom off so things fall out the bottom. Then grab them and pull them out. The first week is best, but it can be done now. Good to spray the area with one of the antibiotic sprays also. With the sack open at the bottom it will drain well and heal real good.


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

It's not too late to band and it should be OK to put them together when he's weaned


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## Woolieface (Feb 17, 2015)

We had a ram lamb wethered last year at four months. He had somehow injured his baby maker out there jumping over logs and allowing him to breed would have resulted in further injury. He turned out a fine wether even doing it that late.


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## Maura (Jun 6, 2004)

Have only weathered one. Did it at four months, just minutes after he serviced his cousin (he cleared three fences to get to her). I kept him four years for his fleece.

If left as a ram he will grow more muscle. Once weaned I have put lambs with their daddy. By that time they are big enough and smart enough to deal with him.


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## Rectifier (Jun 12, 2011)

7 weeks is pretty late for banding. If you have never castrated by knife this will be good experience, with a little practice you can castrate any animal. This skill can save you a lot of money if you know what I mean. Make sure you pull them off and if you absolutely must cut (it happens occasionally), scrape the cords do not slice them. There should be very little blood.

Band wise, my band goes on my wethers on the second day of their life. The earlier the better, but in the first day the shock can interfere with the ability to get enough colostrum. As my old sheep mentor said "You usually know before the lamb is born that he's gonna be a wether" so get that band on there while he's easy to handle.
Occasionally one will die of tetanus weeks later as the sack is dropping off. This is a constant risk of banding and always disappointing, but not a significant loss in my flock. The bigger the sack, the greater the wound and the risk so if you do decide to band late, make sure you vaccinate with 8-way.


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## Ronney (Nov 26, 2004)

Mick, 7 days is good.

So, to "cultural" differences. Band, don't cut. That went out with the ark - unless you happen to like mountain oysters. I wouldn't have seen a lamb or calf cut in nearly 40 years. The remaining sac becomes an open invitation for infection and fly.

I don't run a huge amount of sheep but all are vaccinated and have never lost one to tetanus after banding.

Up to 8 weeks of age is acceptable for castration. Apart from the legal aspects of it (in this country), the bag will often be too large to fit through the elastrator. 

As to your question about running a wether with the ram, yes it is a good idea. The ram is better off with company and they will often become good mates. I have a pet wether that prefers to be with my milking herd (after a dog attack) and now the ram runs with them too. Milking can become a circus with me, cows and sheep cluttering up the milking shed and a goose standing outside demanding her food:happy2:

Cheers,
Ronnie


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## Micknleb (Jun 1, 2014)

Thanks everyone for the advice. In the future, I will know to band within the first week, but it's nice to know that other options are available and that the ram will most likely be fine. I'm still not sure about banding vs castrating. Will try banding and if the bag is too big, I have scheduled the vet to come out, for other issues, soon, so he can do the castration. I would be a lot more comfortable doing it myself after seeing it done.


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## Muleman (Nov 8, 2013)

I have no cultural preference as to banding or castrating. What I can tell you is there have been several university studies in the U.S. comparing the differences between chemical castration, banding and surgical castration. The ones I have seen and discussed with my vet all showed significant weight gain differences in the controlled experiments. The only difference in the feeding and care of the animals were the way in which they were castrated. The opinion of the university studies were when properly done surgical castration at a young age was less stressful to the animal than the other methods. Everyone can do their own research on this and decide for themselves. By the way I belive it was the Oklahoma study I read which showed the best results in this order. Surgical, chemical, banding.


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## Rhee (Jan 15, 2015)

The problem I've been finding in my own experience is that those lambs are nigh impossible to band before 7 days, their testes either aren't descended or if they are they're so small and slippery they won't stay in the sac during the banding process so you end up with belly nuts, which you receive dockage for at the sale barn. As far as I know there's no law in my area against banding at an older age ( though it maybe has to be vet supervised, growing up we used to band steers at weaning but the vet came to do it). We've got some lambs that are a month old and I can't get a nut to stay down! But I don't like the idea of cutting either, just asking for infection that way, so this year we're going to try Burdizzos and see how that goes. Our ram lambs will all be headed for the freezer anyway, so if the emasculators don't work out, we'll just keep them separated I guess!

Edit to add: I tracked down the Canadian codes if practice, it also requires banding be done before 10 days of age unless you have a non-confined flock, in which case you have until 6 weeks of age.


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## Rectifier (Jun 12, 2011)

I guess we can put that down to breed differences as I have never had trouble getting the nuts into the bag on the second day. OK, sometimes I have a _little _ trouble with one of the nuts - but that's easily resolved by having my wife hold the lamb while I pinch them. We process our lambs as a team anyways which makes everything go much faster.

I dunno how to describe it but I'll have a go. Push the bander over the bag, into the lamb's belly with one hand. Squeeze from the sides with the other feeling for the nuts. You can do this easily with one man, just tuck the lamb under your arm.
Nuts pop right up into the bag. Release the tension on the band slowly, if one escapes, put your finger on that side to put it back while under tension. Check you have not caught one of the little teats in the ring, if so ease the tension a little and pull it out. Double check you have the pair and then you are done.

AFAIK we don't get docked for belly nuts anyways, so I've often been tempted to leave some crypt for the extra gain. However there is always the chance that they will not end up fully sterile.

All my ewes are vaccinated and receive boosters before lambing. Lambs get their shots when they go out to pasture. However sometimes I think it just doesn't take. I lost 1/63 this year to what was likely tetanus, but it could have been pulpy kidney. Didn't bother to dissect, but both should have been prevented by vaccine so something didn't work.


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## RovingAcres (Mar 3, 2013)

I use a burdizzo on older lambs and haven't had an issue with it. It seems like it bothers them a lot less than being banded at that age and there isn't an open wound or tetanus risk to deal with. I've had the vet cut 8 month + ones that someone wanted as pets and they didn't have any issues either. Very minimal blood loss with small wounds that healed up quickly. I cut tails too. I just don't like banding personally and avoid it as much as possible.


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## Rhee (Jan 15, 2015)

It might definitely be a breed thing. We had a couple bottle lambs last year that were only a couple days ikd when got them, larger commercial crosses, some hair some wool some both. They weren't hard to band at all, but the little Shetlands that I'm running right now, I don't think their nuts would be much more than peanut size, and then they're just wee to begin with, I just couldn't successfully manage to do it and I preferred not to risk belly nuts.


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