# Alternatives To Statins?



## my3boys (Jan 18, 2011)

At my physical last fall my cholesterol came back just over into the high range - 210. My dr. wants me to change my diet to lower my levels such as adding whole grains, limiting red meat, etc. She will re-check me this summer.

I have m any reservations about going on statins. I have heard they can cause serious damage to the liver? So, I guess I have 2 questions.

Would you even consider going on statins in the first place if your levels were just over into the "high" range?

Are there any safer, natural alternatives to these drugs if the changing diet thing doesn't work?

I've also been reading/hearing that more and more the medical community is finding that inflammation is really the culprit in most heart attacks/problems, not high cholesterol.

I'd appreciate any thoughts/advice you can share with me.

Carol


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## Harry Chickpea (Dec 19, 2008)

"Would you even consider going on statins in the first place if your levels were just over into the "high" range?"

*ABSOLUTELY NOT.* 

There are ample studies that show statins only mildly protect a sub-group of people. In a recent British study, a very low percentage of women who took statins were protected from heart issues, and the same group had a slightly INCREASED chance of cataracts that was more prevalent than the heart protection.

Statins in general have only been shown important in people who have already had a heart attack, and even the percentages there are minimal. I've flat out told doctors - you try to put me on statins and I'll ignore you or find another doctor.

I've a friend with naturally low cholesterol levels - has been low all his life. He still needed a stent.


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## rxkeith (Apr 13, 2009)

with a cholesterol of 210, you should be able to lower it enough by making some dietary changes, and 30 minutes of exercise at least 3 times a week. i recommend dr joel fuhrmans book eat for health to give you some guidelines on what to do. you want to reduce meat consumption to no more than 10% of your diet. eat nutrient dense foods such as kale, and other leafy greens, nuts, not too many though, a cup of cooked beans a day, fruit, and berries. eat oats.

as a pharmacist, i find it sad that so many people are on drugs they don't need to be for lack of either the knowledge or the ambition to make the necessary life style changes in order to reclaim their health. if you can learn to make healthy choices, you can expect to lower your cholesterol by 30 to 40% with out medication. i wouldn't go on a statin unless dietary changes failed AND i was at significant risk of a heart attack or stroke.

if you follow fuhrmans diet approach, you will be treating the problem, and not just the symptom of disease, which is what the majority of drs have been trained to do when they prescribe medication.



keith


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## Pink_Carnation (Apr 21, 2006)

I am in the same position and have already decided against the statins. I am working on exercise and kefir right now. I want to add in more barley since I saw somewhere that it was good for lowering cholesterol also. I want to try and only add things that I can as foods and I know I won't succeed with an entire diet overhaul. 

I don't know if the kefir and barley will make any difference but it is good for me anyway.


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## rxkeith (Apr 13, 2009)

another thing,

you have to look at the dietary, life style changes as a journey. right now you are at point a. point b is where you want to be. now how to get there? you need a road map or directions on how to get there. for some of us, its a short journey. make a few changes, and you are there. for others with multiple health issues, the trip is going to take awhile longer. its ok to make small changes at a time. you keep doing it, and you will reach your goal, and it will be painless.
educate yourself on the changes you need to make. thats where dr fuhrman comes in. his patients get better, and its not because they are taking medication. knowing what to do will set you up for success. 


keith


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## mekasmom (Jan 19, 2010)

my3boys said:


> Would you even consider going on statins in the first place if your levels were just over into the "high" range?
> 
> Are there any safer, natural alternatives to these drugs if the changing diet thing doesn't work
> 
> Carol


Meats do not raise cholesterol. Sugars/carbs do. If you want your cholesterol to lower CUT out the grains, sugars, high sugar fruits (banana, papaya, mango), and add proteins like meat. The old thinking that eating cholesterol rich foods raises cholesterol is simply not true. Eggs are very healthy too. Eat lots and lots of them. Cholesterol is actually produced by the body in response to damage to the arteries. It is used by the body to patch them. Cholesterol is just a symptom of the body trying to heal itself. It is not bad. And, yes, inflammation is a cause of heart disease.

As far as statins-- they are the most dangerous drugs on the market. I would never take them. Your brain is made of over 75% cholesterol. That is normal and healthy. Do you think it is wise to cut that by using statins? Is is wise to poison your liver to kill it's cholesterol release in order to cut your cholesterol by taking statins? Of course not. My naturopath won't take a patient who takes statins (from another doctor) unless they agree to stop using them.

At the very least do some more research on these things. It just breaks my heart to see people go onto statins and start eating foods that will make them sicker because false information was put out by drug companies 25yrs ago. Carbohydrates raise cholesterol because they do cause inflammation in the body (due to candida). The body responds to that inflammation by producing copious amounts of cholesterol to sheath the vessels to protect them. It doesn't come from food, but the wrong foods cause the body to produce it to protect the vessels from inflammation and ruptures.

Some links--
http://www.google.com/search?q=sugar+carbohydrate+consumption+raises+cholesterol&hl=en

[ame]http://www.google.com/search?q=sugar+carbohydrate+consumption+raises+cholesterol&hl=en#sclient=psy&hl=en&q=statins+raise+risk+of+altzheimers&aq=f&aqi=&aql=&oq=&pbx=1&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.&fp=158f5021afbf0802[/ame]

[ame]http://www.google.com/search?q=sugar+carbohydrate+consumption+raises+cholesterol&hl=en#hl=en&sugexp=ldymls&pq=statins%20raise%20risk%20of%20altzheimers&xhr=t&q=dangers+of+statins&cp=14&pf=p&sclient=psy&aq=0&aqi=&aql=&oq=dangers+of+sta&pbx=1&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.&fp=158f5021afbf0802[/ame]

[ame]http://www.google.com/search?q=sugar+carbohydrate+consumption+raises+cholesterol&hl=en#sclient=psy&hl=en&q=grain+sugar+consumption+raises+cholesterol&aq=f&aqi=&aql=&oq=&pbx=1&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.&fp=158f5021afbf0802[/ame]


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## Pink_Carnation (Apr 21, 2006)

Oh and the South Beach diet is supposed to be good for cholesterol....I just try to work some on the basics of it....good fats good carbs. Whole grains, veggies, quality protiens, olive oil, and other good fats.


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## scott (May 11, 2002)

My doc gave me the same speech....wanted to start me on the bp meds and cholesterol meds right away... I said give me 30 days and we'll check again... I cut out the diet coke and started drinking water and lots of it... next check, I was fine... he asked me what I did as he had never had anyone improve their lot ... I told him I started eating like I had half a brain and started drinking water ... it's a pretty simple fix and your body will correct it...if you let it...


It's theorized the body creates the stuff to protect the arteries from dehydration....give the water a shot and lay off the soda for a month (if you do partake) it's cheaper than meds and a lot better for you. And the only side effect is a lot cleaner kidneys.


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## fffarmergirl (Oct 9, 2008)

Shiitake mushrooms can lower your cholesterol - you can look up the studies online.


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## Karen (Apr 17, 2002)

The only time statins should be considered (IMHO) is if you have very high numbers or already have a history of heart issues or stroke. Also, people with diabetes should have their cholesterol levels under 195. But even then, your best bet is to try diet first. Otherwise, there's just too much risk of other damage to vital organs for levels just moderately over the 200 limit.

Another very serious issue with statins is muscle weakness. My husband is having an awful time with that one, and hasn't found one yet that doesn't cause him to either feel run down, loose muscle strength, or stomach disorders. Unfortunately, he's diabetic and diet hasn't worked for him. 

Although it helped very little in my husband's case, many people have had success with Niacin and Artichoke Leaf. One thing did work a bit for him was Policosanol and Red Rice Yeast. Soluble Fiber is also a major player in everyone with high cholesterol. Metimucil (or other brands) are your friend!


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## whodunit (Mar 29, 2004)

My cholesterol was termed "high normal" at 199. The CNP advised fish oil three times a day and exercise.


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## Jim-mi (May 15, 2002)

Satins . . .NO . . . . .or as a very last ditch effort.

Suprised no one has mentioned the monster 'side effects' from satins.
This is one thing that big pharma and 'your Dr.' do NOT talk about......

Far to many 'peoples' are horn-shwaddled into taking them as "a easy way out" for a issue. . . . . . .but they are not told that the satin is quite likely to cause 'other' problems . . . .. To which comes another script for another pharma concoction .....................

One big thick book I really like is: 
Prescription for Nutritional Healing
James F.Balch MD


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## Micheal (Jan 28, 2009)

Gish, guess I'm in a small group, I am on a statin and have been for well over 10 years...... with NO problems nor side effects.
After a stress test and a yearly physical I was given a choice, change diet, exercise, and go on one of the statins - Zocor was the choice of drug then or face a serious heart problem. 
Reason(s) - a high number around 220, other test results, and family history of heart problems. Since I refused to change my eating habits and was physically active (no time for structured exercise) I went the statin route.
Since then my numbers have been around 140-145. I still eat what I want; my choice of food though has changed over the years by choice, not diet. I still do no structured exercise, but am still quite physically active.

I would suggest that you run many of these choices others have posted with your doctor. He/she may be open for you to try an alternative to the statin, but at least he/she would be aware of what is happening if'n something goes hay-wire........


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## mekasmom (Jan 19, 2010)

Michael-- You should do some reading the correlation of statin use and dementia, especially since you have taken them for so long. It's something I would want to know about if I were in your place in order to make choices for my health. I pray God's best for you in your future.

[ame]http://www.google.com/search?q=statins+cause+dimentia&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-USfficial&client=firefox-a#hl=en&client=firefox-a&hs=JZu&rls=org.mozilla:en-USfficial&sa=X&ei=PKmQTdDoLZGgtwfB_6WICQ&ved=0CCQQvwUoAQ&q=statins+cause+dementia&spell=1&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.&fp=158f5021afbf0802[/ame]


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## my3boys (Jan 18, 2011)

Wow! So much great advice. I will go back and read every link given as time allows.

I should add I am hypothyroid and on Synthroid. My levels have come down but they had hoped my cholesterol would come down as well since high cholesterol is a side effect of being hypothyroid, but they didn't.

I also had a cardiac CRP (C-reactive protein) of 4, which put me just over into the high range for heart attack risk. My regular CRP was normal however, and there is no history of heart disease on either side of my family. There is HBP and strokes due to that, but my BP is good, usually 110/80.

I have been eating lots of oats, mostly in the form of Cheerios, but if sugar and carbs raise cholesterol levels, am I doing more harm than good? Also, does honey produce the same effects as sugar?

Thanks for all the responses. Keep them coming!

Carol


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## mekasmom (Jan 19, 2010)

I would add more protein and cutting back on the oats. You don't have to stop them altogether, but just add more protein and veggies rather than more grains. Whole grains are better than processed foods like cereals, and oats are better than wheat, but overall.... I personally would add more protein and healthy fats. Also, don't eat trans fats like margarine. They are a form of plastic and greatly irritate your vascular system.

Honey is better than sugar, but lowering all sugar intake is a good way to lower cholesterol.

The fast release niacin will also lower cholesterol, but nobody should use the flush free or slow release kind because it's hard on the liver. And usually, just lowering carbs will lower it quite a bit anyway.


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## Homely (Aug 22, 2007)

I had a link on Vitamin C and Niacin and Cholesterol (really Cardiovascular Disease in general!) but broke my computer since then. You can google it really quickly. 
I would try that first, and add me to the "not taking statin" crowd. They affect the way your cells, all of your cells, function.


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## Nevada (Sep 9, 2004)

I wouldn't be concerned enough with a 210 to consider a statin. There is a good chance that yours is lower than your doctor's.


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## Micheal (Jan 28, 2009)

mekasmom said:


> Michael-- You should do some reading the correlation of statin use and dementia, especially since you have taken them for so long. It's something I would want to know about if I were in your place in order to make choices for my health.


I have and could quote other looked at studies about statin use and a whole bunch of other effects, concerns, problems, etc. none of which I have nor really worry about as that is why most everything done "healthwise" is run via my doctor. 
Guess that's why he gets the big bucks........ :happy0035: 

That is also the reason I stated that no matter what a patient tries or refuses to try because of a known medical concern/problem their doctor be informed of what that person decides on trying....... or not!


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## Jim-mi (May 15, 2002)

Get rid of the white sugar alltogether and use raw honey....
Try to find a local supplier of raw unpasturized honey.
Store bought honey is no where near as good as raw.............


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## Dwayne Barry (Jan 9, 2009)

my3boys said:


> At my physical last fall my cholesterol came back just over into the high range - 210. My dr. wants me to change my diet to lower my levels such as adding whole grains, limiting red meat, etc. She will re-check me this summer.
> 
> I've also been reading/hearing that more and more the medical community is finding that inflammation is really the culprit in most heart attacks/problems, not high cholesterol.
> 
> ...


The development of atherosclerosis is due to damage to the walls of your arteries, your body's response to any injury is inflammation, in the case of atherosclerosis this involves the deposition of cholesterol as part of the inflammatory process within the arterial walls. So inflammation and cholesterol levels are intimately linked in the formation of atherosclerosis.

The other important number you don't mention is your HDL number. The best predictor of your risk of developing heart disease due to cholesterol levels is your Total Cholesterol to HDL ratio. Even though 210 isn't that high, some of the concern your doctor may have may be due to a low ratio (4.5 would be about average risk for a woman, lower would be better, higher not as good).

I don't think you mention aerobic exercise anywhere, perhaps you're already a regular exerciser, if not it's generally helpful because it may lower LDLs, likely to raise HDLs, and in general has an anti-inflammatory effect. Additionally it can contribute to weight loss which again typically affects cholesterol levels in a positive direction (independent of whatever positive effects the exercise itself yields).


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## Dwayne Barry (Jan 9, 2009)

Homely said:


> I had a link on Vitamin C and Niacin and Cholesterol (really Cardiovascular Disease in general!) but broke my computer since then. You can google it really quickly.
> I would try that first, and add me to the "not taking statin" crowd. They affect the way your cells, all of your cells, function.


Niacin is sometimes given instead of Statins but generally doesn't lower LDLs as much. OTOH, it typically lowers triglycerides levels and raises HDL levels more than Statins.

However, lots of folks have side-effect issues with Niacin use as is the case with Statins.


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## unioncreek (Jun 18, 2002)

I've tried them, but was allergic to them. My cholesterol was around 280. We run a restaurant for a year and that meant eating a lot of fatty foods so I was worried it was high. I heard taking garlic pills helped so I started taking them. My cholesterol is down to 230, the lowest it's ever been. He did put me on Zetia and I'll go in next month. He said my cholesterol is most likely genetic and it may never go down below 200.

Bobg


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## my3boys (Jan 18, 2011)

Dwayne Barry said:


> The development of atherosclerosis is due to damage to the walls of your arteries, your body's response to any injury is inflammation, in the case of atherosclerosis this involves the deposition of cholesterol as part of the inflammatory process within the arterial walls. So inflammation and cholesterol levels are intimately linked in the formation of atherosclerosis.
> 
> The other important number you don't mention is your HDL number. The best predictor of your risk of developing heart disease due to cholesterol levels is your Total Cholesterol to HDL ratio. Even though 210 isn't that high, some of the concern your doctor may have may be due to a low ratio (4.5 would be about average risk for a woman, lower would be better, higher not as good).
> 
> I don't think you mention aerobic exercise anywhere, perhaps you're already a regular exerciser, if not it's generally helpful because it may lower LDLs, likely to raise HDLs, and in general has an anti-inflammatory effect. Additionally it can contribute to weight loss which again typically affects cholesterol levels in a positive direction (independent of whatever positive effects the exercise itself yields).


They said my HDLs and LDLs were normal as well as my triglycerides.

I do a lot of walking, although not as much during the winter as I should. I do have a treadmill, although it is in storage since we just moved this summer and didn't have room for it in the rental. I can't do any exercise involving jumping because I have bad knee. That is why I walk instead of run, because it is low-impact.


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## my3boys (Jan 18, 2011)

Jim-mi said:


> Get rid of the white sugar alltogether and use raw honey....
> Try to find a local supplier of raw unpasturized honey.
> Store bought honey is no where near as good as raw.............


I buy locally produced honey but I'm not sure if it's raw - off to check.

So raw honey doesn't have the same effect as sugar?

What about raw sugar?

Carol


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## my3boys (Jan 18, 2011)

Nevada said:


> I wouldn't be concerned enough with a 210 to consider a statin. There is a good chance that yours is lower than your doctor's.


Unfortunately, I'm getting to the age where most of my drs are younger than me! This one's in her early 40's.

And yes, that is very depressing!


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## my3boys (Jan 18, 2011)

Thanks, everyone. Y'all are great!


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## yailukmuu (Mar 24, 2011)

Statins! OMG&#8212;run for your life, they will destroy your liver, and worse, you&#8217;ll grow hair all over the palms of your hands, just imagine what people will think!

Would I take statins if my lipid profile was abnormal? You bet&#8217;cha! And I do. By gosh I take the most evil statin of all: Crestor aka Rosuvastatin. Oh the terrible adverse effects though&#8212;oh wait, hmm, I haven&#8217;t noticed any. My HDL (the good lipid) did rise nicely; and the LDL&#8217;s (the bad lipid) did fall nicely. I am a happy camper!

I will be the first to admit that statins, like all meds are best avoided. Why take a med when you can (if you have the gumption (or ability&#8212;not all people do)) to drop the pounds, do 30+ minutes of aerobic exercise (in your appropriate target heart rate range, at least 3x a week (and for most walking does not do it), and watch what you eat.

I&#8217;ve researched statins extensively and I believe that if your lipid profile is abnormal&#8212;appropriate statin use is protective, plain and simple. 

Why do statins get such a bad rap? Mainly because, especially at high levels, they do have adverse effects, and those effects can be serious, a case in point: patient taking an antibiotic that utilizes the Cytochrome 3aD enzymatic liver system adds a statin that also uses that system. Not all livers work the same and some people have enzymatic systems that are not very efficient. Add two meds that utilize that system, and the liver cannot remove the medication very fast.

Consider that a medication has a half-life, meaning in so many hours or days, Â½ of the drug is excreted. The dose of the med anticipates this. So if patient A gets two meds that use the 3aD system but that person happens to have an efficient system, no adverse effects. But let&#8217;s consider a person who does not have an effective 3ad system. In that person the drug is not being excreted at an expected rate, and so both drugs &#8220;build up&#8221; within the body and at some level something becomes toxic. 

Probably almost all the severe problems with statins come from this scenario. The med builds up, becomes toxic and if mild, the person develops myalgia (muscle pain) . In severe cases of this scenario rhabdomyolysis occurs&#8212;muscle tissue becomes damaged, the damaged tissues leak hemoglobin into the blood and terrible things can happen. While rare, this is a risk of statins.

But then, it is largely dose dependent. High doses of statins = higher levels of adverse effects. For me what worked was a multi-approach: exercise, diet, and a low dose statin. One would think that if 5 milligrams of a statin reduced LDL&#8217;s 20% then 10mgs would remove forty percent and 20mg would remove 80%.

But it is not that way. In the case of Rosuvastatin a measly 3milligrams was all I needed to increase my HDL&#8217;s a bit so they are in the normal range, and to reduce LDL&#8217;s to normal. But they don&#8217;t sell 3mg tablets! (And if 3mg reduces LDL's by 20% it actually might take 40mg or 12x the dose to double the LDL reduction!) For some, small amounts may be a good choice.

Consider this: 10mg, 20mg and 40mg tablets cost the same&#8212;huh? Yes, in the infinite wisdom of our medical community (read: the Pharmaking (=drug industry)), the quantity of most drugs have no bearing on price. It is not that way in other countries! In many countries a 10mg dose cost about Â½ of a 20mg dose. In America it is: &#8220;max the revenue per person.&#8221;

So what do I do? I buy 20mg tablets and with a razor, carefully cut the tablet in half and then cut each half in thirds, so that each piece is about 3.3milligrams. I studied the pharmacodynamic curve and the 3.3mg dose gave me the exact response that I wanted. (I&#8217;ve had bloodwork done twice).

Note: Always rely on your medical practitioner. Some meds cannot be cut, and some have &#8220;critical&#8221; levels. A wise medical practitioner will work with you, if not, find another.

So for some, with the help of you medical practitioner, if they are willing to work with you, consider this &#8220;start low&#8221; approach along with lifestyle modifications.

Even then, demand (or ask nicely)that your medical practitioner review any meds you have for that statin to make sure that you are not taking another med that will compete with the same enzymatic liver system, and as a back-up, ask your pharmacist to double check for contraindications. And if you are prescribed something new while on a statin&#8212;once again do the same! Almost all the serious statin problems I have seen or read about come from this conflict.

A natural alternative: Red Yeast Rice. Chinese Red Yeast Rice contains the same exact chemical that is in Simvastatin. The problem here is that if a person takes Chinese Red Yeast Rice and also takes a competing medication&#8212;boom! Adverse effects are possible. To remedy this potential problem the FDA banned Chinese Red Yeast rice. 

&#8220;Oh&#8221; but you might say: : &#8220;you&#8217;re wrong&#8212;I can buy red yeast rice at my local supplement shop.&#8221; Yes, you can, but there is a difference. The ONLY allowable red yeast rice sold in America is a variety that some entrepreneur found that contains NONE of the active statin. Therefore, in my opinion, you might as well eat white rice and add some cherry juice for color. (Or go to China and buy the real thing, but since the active chemical is the same as Simvastatin, why not just take Simvastatin?).

As someone pointed out, Niacin and it&#8217;s relatives can reduce LDL&#8217;s, but work with a medical practitioner if you want to try this&#8212;but it is an alternative, and if you don&#8217;t mind the flushing (turning red) that often occurs with this method. Again with Niacin if you are on other meds&#8212;check with your medical practitioner as Niacin can cause adverse effects if you are on other meds.

Consider that historically (over the past several thousand years) the average human lived about 35 years. Now 35 years is &#8220;young.&#8221; The older your body gets, the harder you must work it to keep it healthy&#8212;it&#8217;s a simple (and somewhat painful fact).

Hope this helps...

Oh...an edit: One reason that I chose Crestor is there is evidence that it reduces inflammation. Have your blood checked for CRP (C-reactive protein) a marker for inflammation, mine was a tad high, thus my choice was Crestor, recent blood results indicate a lowering or CRP. Please do keep in mind that what I need might not be what you need--this stuff can be complex and it's wise to find a good medical practitioner (which is getting difficult) who will work with you.


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## Homely (Aug 22, 2007)

Dwayne Barry said:


> Niacin is sometimes given instead of Statins but generally doesn't lower LDLs as much. OTOH, it typically lowers triglycerides levels and raises HDL levels more than Statins.
> 
> However, lots of folks have side-effect issues with Niacin use as is the case with Statins.


My understanding is that the C helps with the cholesterol, too, and taking them together is the bast thing. Also, the flush-free form of Niacin is usually recommended, and dosage can be slowly raised to build tolerance.


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## Dwayne Barry (Jan 9, 2009)

Homely said:


> My understanding is that the C helps with the cholesterol, too, and taking them together is the bast thing. Also, the flush-free form of Niacin is usually recommended, and dosage can be slowly raised to build tolerance.


I would think the idea with the vitamin C is that it acts as an anti-oxidant? Oxidation of the LDL cholesterol plays a part in forming the atherosclerotic plaques in the arteries so at least theoretically anti-oxidants should inhibit the atherosclerosis.


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## Dwayne Barry (Jan 9, 2009)

my3boys said:


> They said my HDLs and LDLs were normal as well as my triglycerides.


Another factor that may play a role in your doctors decision is an assessment of your estimated risk of developing serious cardiovascular disease (e.g. having a heart attack) or if it's considered to already be present. If either of those are the case then the goal for your LDL levels will be lower.


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## mekasmom (Jan 19, 2010)

Dwayne Barry said:


> However, lots of folks have side-effect issues with Niacin use as is the case with Statins.


The flush free slow release niacin, not the regular kind that causes flushing is the problem. Unfortunately, the flushing is uncomfortable, so many people only use the flush free kind. And that is deadly to the liver in higher doses. Niacin has to be taken in high doses to be effective for cholesterol.
Carnitine is also good for cardiovascular disease as is Taurine. I don't think you can buy the last one easily though. You have to get it from a naturopath, I believe.


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## SpaceCadet12364 (Apr 27, 2003)

Another thing with niacin, to reduce your discomfort with flushing, is to take it before bedtime. If you do flush some, its not generally anything that would wake you up from sleep.
I take the slo-niacin, doc prescribes it. They wanted to put me onto a statin, but a few years back a different doc had me on it, I ended up getting some mild side effects but it was enough for the doc to take me off it.


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## my3boys (Jan 18, 2011)

Dwayne Barry said:


> The development of atherosclerosis is due to damage to the walls of your arteries, your body's response to any injury is inflammation, in the case of atherosclerosis this involves the deposition of cholesterol as part of the inflammatory process within the arterial walls. So inflammation and cholesterol levels are intimately linked in the formation of atherosclerosis.
> 
> The other important number you don't mention is your HDL number. The best predictor of your risk of developing heart disease due to cholesterol levels is your Total Cholesterol to HDL ratio. Even though 210 isn't that high, some of the concern your doctor may have may be due to a low ratio (4.5 would be about average risk for a woman, lower would be better, higher not as good).
> 
> I don't think you mention aerobic exercise anywhere, perhaps you're already a regular exerciser, if not it's generally helpful because it may lower LDLs, likely to raise HDLs, and in general has an anti-inflammatory effect. Additionally it can contribute to weight loss which again typically affects cholesterol levels in a positive direction (independent of whatever positive effects the exercise itself yields).


Could you tell me a little more about "damage to the arteries"? What could be some of the causes of this? Since I have a cardiac CRP of 4, just over into the high range, I definitely have inflammation in the arteries, which means I have damage somewhere due to something. However, no one has explained this part of it too me.

Thanks.

Carol


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## Dwayne Barry (Jan 9, 2009)

my3boys said:


> Could you tell me a little more about "damage to the arteries"? What could be some of the causes of this? Since I have a cardiac CRP of 4, just over into the high range, I definitely have inflammation in the arteries, which means I have damage somewhere due to something. However, no one has explained this part of it too me.


That's because no one knows the answer. Probably multiple causes. High blood pressure probably contributes to the damage, some have speculated that viral infections may play a role, probably just wear and tear in some instances, toxins in tobacco smoke, etc.


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## rxkeith (Apr 13, 2009)

poor dental health can cause inflammation, and damage to arteries due to constant and untreated periodontal disease. my father is a prime example. he has multiple health issues that can be attributed to lack of dental care.
trans fats.
diet. most people i come in contact with are woefully uninformed of the direct link between what they eat, and their health. food can kill you or it can heal you. all depends on what you eat. it took 40 years for me to become a believer. no turning back now. there are no bad side effects from eating a healthy diet that allows the body to heal itself.

with all the bashing of statins going on here, i find it somewhat ironic the number of people suggesting taking high dose niacin as an alternative. why trade one set of problems for another?
niacin has its own potentially serious side effects as has already been mentioned. NOBODY should start niacin therapy on their own without prior medical approval and knowledge of the liver damage that could occur taking high dose niacin. 
there are no magic pills in a bottle folks. save your money.
learn to eat the right foods and your need to take medication will plummet. 
sure would make my job easier.


keith


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## mekasmom (Jan 19, 2010)

rxkeith said:


> with all the bashing of statins going on here, i find it somewhat ironic the number of people suggesting taking high dose niacin as an alternative. why trade one set of problems for another?
> 
> 
> keith


Only the slow release niacin causes issues. The regular niacin, that makes people flush, does not hurt your liver. But a lot of people don't like the flush.
The drug companies have even used Niacin in some of the scripts for the lowering of cholesterol. But, of course, they use the flush free, so you have the liver damage problem. The drug Niaspan uses Niacin to lower cholesterol, but I personally wouldn't take it simply due to the type of niacin in it along with other ingredients. Of course, they are making millions from it.


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## my3boys (Jan 18, 2011)

Dwayne Barry said:


> That's because no one knows the answer. Probably multiple causes. High blood pressure probably contributes to the damage, some have speculated that viral infections may play a role, probably just wear and tear in some instances, toxins in tobacco smoke, etc.


That's what has me puzzled. I don't have HBP, don't smoke and never have, and keep up with the dentist stuff.

I have had some issues this past year with infections and some kind of flu. I wonder if that could have caused the problem? If so, I hope the damage isn't permanent?

Carol


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## GoatsRus (Jan 19, 2003)

Just an FYI, I was trying to lower my cholesterol with Red rice yeast. I took it for about a month. The whole month I had stomach problems and actually thought I had an ulcer. It never occurred to me that it was the RRY because I was only taking 1 capsule instead of the 3 - 4 that they recommend. I was also beginning to experiencing muscle weakness and started to keep a food diary thinking I was becoming gluten intolerant or something. Then I went back in my monthly journal and realized that all the stomach problems started when I started the RRY. The first day I was off, I felt better by the 3rd day, I felt great.


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## mekasmom (Jan 19, 2010)

The veins/arteries become inflamed from inflammation in the body. It usually starts in the gut from too much sugar/carbohydrates. Humans just do better with less gluten, less sugar, and more fats. It causes allergies, inflammation in the gut itself that spreads through the body.
Do you raise goats? If so, think about goats. They are rumans, of course, so they react so much more than humans to too high of a carbohydrate diet, but it is the same thing. The carbs turn to sugar at almost 100% in your body. That causes insulin release which is inflammatory of itself. If a goat bloats, giving oil is a typical thing to do. The goat needs more fats to coat it's gut to ease the inflammation. 
Same with humans to a much smaller scale. We just need more fats not less. We need fewer carbohydrates than the American diet usually provides because almost everything in this nation is processed and has HFC added to it. That's killing us from heart disease because we are always in hyper-insulin release. We see insulin resistance in huge parts of the middle age community now because we have eaten so many carbs throughout the years. And we see so many inflammatory diseases on the rise-- DM, cardiovascular disease,hypertension, many types of Arthritis... High cholesterol is just the body trying to shore up the vascular system because it is damaged from all the inflammation from years of issues, usually wrong eating. It is a symptom, not the underlying disease. 

There is nothing wrong with eating fruit, veggies, whole grains, but after years and years of typical American life, our bodies are just in carb overload. We need to cut back on sugars (carbs) to give them a chance to heal. Fats are not evil (except trans fats like margarine). And then our bodies can take that time to ease the inflammatory process and heal our vascular systems. Even just cutting out high sugar fruits, all processed foods, and cutting out sugar, perhaps only eating small amounts of whole grains while adding some more protein and fat is more than enough change for you. It's not like your cholesterol is that high at all. Our bodies are made to heal themselves. We just have to get rid of some of the things that bring on inflammation to give them a chance to heal.

Mercola has lots of articles on grains. He's not my favorite author on the subject because he is waayyyyy anti-grain, too much for my liking, but it will give you an idea of what I mean. But to answer the question, the damage comes from inflammation in the body which usually starts in the digestive system.


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## my3boys (Jan 18, 2011)

mekasmom said:


> The veins/arteries become inflamed from inflammation in the body. It usually starts in the gut from too much sugar/carbohydrates. Humans just do better with less gluten, less sugar, and more fats. It causes allergies, inflammation in the gut itself that spreads through the body.
> Do you raise goats? If so, think about goats. They are rumans, of course, so they react so much more than humans to too high of a carbohydrate diet, but it is the same thing. The carbs turn to sugar at almost 100% in your body. That causes insulin release which is inflammatory of itself. If a goat bloats, giving oil is a typical thing to do. The goat needs more fats to coat it's gut to ease the inflammation.
> Same with humans to a much smaller scale. We just need more fats not less. We need fewer carbohydrates than the American diet usually provides because almost everything in this nation is processed and has HFC added to it. That's killing us from heart disease because we are always in hyper-insulin release. We see insulin resistance in huge parts of the middle age community now because we have eaten so many carbs throughout the years. And we see so many inflammatory diseases on the rise-- DM, cardiovascular disease,hypertension, many types of Arthritis... High cholesterol is just the body trying to shore up the vascular system because it is damaged from all the inflammation from years of issues, usually wrong eating. It is a symptom, not the underlying disease.
> 
> ...


Thank you, Mekasmom. This makes a lot of sense, and was very helpful.

I have switched from coffee and sugar to herbal tea and raw honey. Most of my refined sugar consumption was related to my coffee habit. 

Now someone will probably post that honey is just as bad as sugar! :hair

Carol


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## cc (Jun 4, 2006)

I almost laughed, I would be thrilled if my cholesterol went down to 210. I am just one of those people who has high cholesterol genetically and even though they have tried me on statins it did not help much. Even my doctor said that it wasn't enough improvement to justify the side effects. I am very careful of my diet but still my cholesterol runs 275 to 325 but my ratio is excellent. I have read this thread with much interest and want to go back and re-read it to see if there is any new information that I haven't seen someplace else. Thank you folks who share this with the rest of us because no matter how hard I try, I can't keep up with all the new information that comes out.


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## 64102 (Sep 21, 2010)

I was wondering if statins cause cysts, as I just found out I have 2 cysts in the liver and 1 in the left kidney and several in the right one.


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## my3boys (Jan 18, 2011)

cc said:


> I almost laughed, I would be thrilled if my cholesterol went down to 210. I am just one of those people who has high cholesterol genetically and even though they have tried me on statins it did not help much. Even my doctor said that it wasn't enough improvement to justify the side effects. I am very careful of my diet but still my cholesterol runs 275 to 325 but my ratio is excellent. I have read this thread with much interest and want to go back and re-read it to see if there is any new information that I haven't seen someplace else. Thank you folks who share this with the rest of us because no matter how hard I try, I can't keep up with all the new information that comes out.


I know what you mean. There is so much new information and a lot of it is conflicting.

It's especially confusing when drs can't seem to agree.

Carol


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## Randy Rooster (Dec 14, 2004)

Oatmeal at least 5 x a week for breakfast, regular exercise 5 days a week, lose some excess weight and as a last resort red rice yeast.


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## TxGypsy (Nov 23, 2006)

Statins Bad!!!! 

I took the danged things for 5 years and never, ever had my cholesterol numbers go down. Instead my overall cholesterol continued to climb. I had quite a few nasty side effects from the statins also. My highest total cholesterol number was 340....with a good cholesterol of under 20!

I started seeing a naturopathic doctor and finally my health began improving. The first thing she said to me was to never eat beef again. Huh?! I was raised on a cattle ranch. For me chicken was a treat as a child. I quit eating beef and severely limited my pork intake and a LOT of little nagging health problems went away. A year later my total cholesterol went down over 130 points!!! I recently saw my naturopath(after far too long) and I have changed my diet again. I'm essentially eating a vegan diet now. I will eat some eggs and cheese if I am eating out, but very little. WOW at the changes I'm undergoing!!! I'm looking forward to checking my cholesterol level in a couple of months. One of the pleasant effects is loosing weight. I've lost inches that would never come off before. TONS of energy too.

Check out "Eating for your Blood Type".....it's a great place to start if you are serious about improving your health. Your body can fix a lot of things if it is only given the proper tools to do so.


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## TxGypsy (Nov 23, 2006)

cc said:


> I almost laughed, I would be thrilled if my cholesterol went down to 210. I am just one of those people who has high cholesterol genetically and even though they have tried me on statins it did not help much. Even my doctor said that it wasn't enough improvement to justify the side effects. I am very careful of my diet but still my cholesterol runs 275 to 325 but my ratio is excellent. I have read this thread with much interest and want to go back and re-read it to see if there is any new information that I haven't seen someplace else. Thank you folks who share this with the rest of us because no matter how hard I try, I can't keep up with all the new information that comes out.


CC check out my posting. You sound like me....except I never had the excellent ratio. I am genetically pre-disposed to have an early expiration date too! I'll be 40 next month....my Dad died of a heart attack at my age. Most people in my family die in their 30's and 40's.

You can change your health, but it isn't easy. Just know that it's possible.


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## edzz (Jun 21, 2008)

âA rare but serious side effect.â You probably heard that on the Lipitor commercial, but paid little or no attention to it, rite. Well I got it. It starts with muscle pain, mine started around Christmas. At first I brushed it off as just getting old and walking too much, sometimes 5-6 miles a day. Then in mid May I got the muscle weakness. It feels as though you have exercised your muscles to exhaustion with very little actual use. I again brushed it off as just getting old. It got much worse. Anyway went to the doctor and got the diagnosis of âStatin induced myopothy.â Stopped taking the Lipitor in June, and have begun to recover somewhat. Dr. says it may take two years for it to totally go away. I am back up to walking about a half a mile without totally being wasted 

Anyway I am posting this not looking for sympathy; I will get better with time, but to warn you if you are taking Statin drugs for high cholesterol, and your muscles begin to ache for no apparent reason do not walk, but run to the Dr. and get off that stuff. I have run into dozens of folks that have had this reaction, sometimes like me after taking it for years. Some of these folks spent a year or longer in a wheel char before they began to get better. I do not think that it is as rare as they would like for us to believe.


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## mightybooboo (Feb 10, 2004)

edzz said:


> âA rare but serious side effect.â You probably heard that on the Lipitor commercial, but paid little or no attention to it, rite. Well I got it. It starts with muscle pain, mine started around Christmas. At first I brushed it off as just getting old and walking too much, sometimes 5-6 miles a day. Then in mid May I got the muscle weakness. It feels as though you have exercised your muscles to exhaustion with very little actual use. I again brushed it off as just getting old. It got much worse. Anyway went to the doctor and got the diagnosis of âStatin induced myopothy.â Stopped taking the Lipitor in June, and have begun to recover somewhat. Dr. says it may take two years for it to totally go away. I am back up to walking about a half a mile without totally being wasted
> 
> Anyway I am posting this not looking for sympathy; I will get better with time, but to warn you if you are taking Statin drugs for high cholesterol, and your muscles begin to ache for no apparent reason do not walk, but run to the Dr. and get off that stuff. I have run into dozens of folks that have had this reaction, sometimes like me after taking it for years. Some of these folks spent a year or longer in a wheel char before they began to get better. I do not think that it is as rare as they would like for us to believe.


Happened to my BIL and my SIL,they are very dangerous drugs.One went off em completely,BIL changed brands and still on em.Both got aches and immediately sought help.


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## tinknal (May 21, 2004)

Oyster mushrooms are full of natural statins.


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## TnAndy (Sep 15, 2005)

yailukmuu said:


> Consider that historically (over the past several thousand years) the average human lived about 35 years. Now 35 years is âyoung.â The older your body gets, the harder you must work it to keep it healthyâitâs a simple (and somewhat painful fact).


Yep......as somebody's grannie said: "Getting old ain't fer sissies" ! :happy2:

Last ten years, my total cholesterol number was around 150-170 range, HDL was mid 40's. I took no drugs of any kind, other than a 81mg aspirin/Co-Q10/good multivitamin, and had no symptoms of heart diease, yet had a triple bypass last week due to the results of a heart cath test showing 80% blockage in 3 major heart arteries. Now I'm on a post op statin, plus Plavix.....will be evaluating those as the months and surgical recovery go on.


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## HeelSpur (May 7, 2011)

Is there any evidence linking statins to abdominal aorta anurisms(spellcheck ) ?


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## AR Cattails (Dec 22, 2005)

I just came across this thread. You all scare me. I have been on pravastatin for a long time and a couple of months ago went to the doctor for bloodwork and she told me my cholesterol was higher and that she was switching me to zocor. I actually finished the pravastatin I had on hand and just started taking the zocor a few days ago.

I don't notice anything different but then I always feel bad in a sense. I always contributed that to having been so overweight for years and getting older. I'm going to try and make myself get back on the south beach diet again (I had some success with that a few months ago) and try to build myself up to do some walking. I can't do much more than around 5 minutes right now.

I would like to get off the zocor, along with many other medicines. So I have to get to work on it now. I'm glad I found this thread. I had no idea about the statins. When I had tv, I would always see this doctor (can't remember his name) on Fox's Sunday Morning News program and he was always promoting statins so I thought they were good.


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## mekasmom (Jan 19, 2010)

HeelSpur said:


> Is there any evidence linking statins to abdominal aorta anurisms(spellcheck ) ?


 This is a very interesting subject because statins are almost always used in the treatment of aortic aneuryisms to help control bp and prevent a rupture in western medicine. The idea is that they help control bp, along with bp meds, and prevent a "clog" that will raise bp thereby reducing the risk of a rupture and death. Also used are calcium channel blockers and nitro simply to relax the vessel to help keep it from blowing out especially if it is large.

BUT.... some,many, naturopaths believe that is a very bad idea because cholesterol from our own body is the "scab" of damaged arteries or damaged aortas in this case. The reason people have high cholesterol is not exactly what they eat, but it is because their bodies produce it to heal over or "scab" damages in the vessels and arteries. Eating too many carbohydrates causes our bodies to constantly be in a hyper insulin state, so that we develop insulin resistance. That insulin causes inflammation which damages the blood vessels, so then, our own body tries to repair them with cholesterol like our bodies form a scab on a sore. That's why triglicerides and LDL go up when humans eat a lot of sugars. It is actually the insulin that causes the issue due to inflammation. And that inflammation reduces the vessel diameter, which causes strain on the vessels, and our bodies form a fatty plug of cholesterol over the damaged area. 
In X-rays they can sometimes actually see an aortic aneurysm due to the calcification, or hardening up, of that cholesterol in the aorta. But why did the cholesterol stick there in the first place? Because the vessel itself was damaged, stretched, has a weak spot or a sore there.
So, the alternative belief, is that the cholesterol is actually there to help hold that weak blood vessel together just like scar tissue holds our skin together or a broken bone together to heal it. Therefore they don't believe it is wise to use statins in treatment of aneurysms. 

Did the statin itself cause the aneurysm? Probably not, but who knows? Does being on a statin keep the body from healing small strains on the vessels before they grow into an aneurysm? Who knows for sure? I would certainly wonder about that, but I would also doubt that the statin caused the original injury that caused the small damage in the first place.
Our bodies are so amazing. Everyone has cancer cells in their bodies at one time or another in their life, but the body kills them off, so that they don't develop into tumors. Everybody has small damage to our vessels at times just from life, but our bodies repair them so that they don't become aneurysms. Does a statin deter our body's repair system? Yes, definitely. But the statin didn't cause the small damage in the first place.

If a friend had a triple A, and was making the decision on what to do.... I would honestly say that a statin would not be the first choice of treatment in my mind unless it was larger, like over a 4, and the statin was the absolute last resort. I would think that calcium channel blockers (cardiazem, toporol, verapimil, etc) would be a much better option along with a nitro patch, a lot of Vit C and some CoQ10 for vessel integrity. And of course, surgery is really the only true repair for a large triple A.


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## sandfly (Jul 23, 2011)

I love all these numbers, my tri-glycerides are 1200 or more most days and the overall chlostrial is over 700 most days. that's on statins and fish oil and all kinds of goodies. Oh and I eat good and exercise too.


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## mekasmom (Jan 19, 2010)

sandfly said:


> I love all these numbers, my tri-glycerides are 1200 or more most days and the overall chlostrial is over 700 most days. that's on statins and fish oil and all kinds of goodies. Oh and I eat good and exercise too.


What is "eating good" to you? Low fat is not good. I know that has been the mantra for many years, but it really isn't good for your body. Low carb is what drops cholesterol numbers.

With numbers like that I would assume you have a genetic issue that is causing your body to produce so much cholesterol too. Some people just have a genetic propensity for cardiovascular disease.

I know it's discouraging. I'm sorry.


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## sandfly (Jul 23, 2011)

Yeah low carb diet. It's genetic for me. so far I have had 5 bypasses, 9 stents and 3 balloons to keep me on earth. cardiovascular disease for sure. After surgery they said I became diabetic too, borderline. I grow my own food as much as possible, and have free range chickens for eggs and meat.


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## mekasmom (Jan 19, 2010)

I would add carnitine as a supplement too, and alpha lipoic acid. They have good research for those and cardiovascular disease. I "think" it was Pauling who did that research, but I don't remember for sure who it was, sorry. I just know both of those help with heart disease and there was a really respected scientist who did the research. I do think it was Pauling.

http://scholar.google.com/scholar?q...ent=firefox-a&um=1&ie=UTF-8&sa=N&hl=en&tab=ws

http://scholar.google.com/scholar?h...ine"&btnG=Search&as_sdt=0,14&as_ylo=&as_vis=0


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