# Best Guard Dog for a Small Homestead?



## Kristabelle

We are moving into what most consider a small homestead. We have about an acre of land and will only be utilizing 2/3 of that for farm purposes. We plan to have chickens, rabbits, and eventually a couple goats. We won't ever have much simply because we lack the room, really.

We are in a very rural area, and I'd like everyone to have some four legged protection. Besides coyotes, we seem to have a ton of raccoons and foxes. I grew up on this land and we were always losing chickens to furry thieves at night. We lost our dairy goat to a pack of coyotes as well.

We also have some known thieves around. About three weeks ago, someone came on to the property and stole just about everything they could scrap. In such a rural area, with zero witnesses, it's impossible to trace. We looked around various recycling centers but we think they went a county over to cover their tracks. It was mostly junk that would have eventually gone anyway, but it was my late grandfather's junk, and that hurt. 

What are some good suggestions for guard dogs on such a small piece of land? We also have small children and small companion pets (dog and cats) so behavior and prey drive are very important traits for us to consider. I know of the traditional LGD breeds but I'm afraid that without much to guard, they may wander. There is livestock across the road from us that would probably be more appealing to an LGD than our pitiful "flock". 

I'm leaning towards an english or australian shepherd, but I've read they aren't very good at guarding. I had a border collie growing up and he was sweet as can be, but very nippy to small children trying to herd them.

Lifespan is also very important. I know the bigger the dog, the less time it has with you generally. It would break my heart to have a beloved dog die every 6-8 years of old age. Most of the giant breeds aren't appealing to me for this reason.


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## citxmech

Just to clarify, are you looking for more of a "watch dog," "guard dog," "farm dog," or a "personal protection dog?"

Dogs that will alert are different than dogs that will intimidate. Dogs that will actually guard livestock are kind of their own thing. And dogs that will actually confront trespassers/thieves, either on their own, or at your direction, are a different matter altogether.

Also, are your critters going to be separated from the dog? Keeping dogs off poultry can be a bit of a challenge.

If you want something purely to alert you, geese are wonderful watch animals to consider for a small space.


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## Kristabelle

We are looking for a family dog that will alert us and appear intimidating enough that an intruder may be deterred, and can stand it's ground if a coyote or dog sneaks past the fences until I can get out there. I hope that makes sense? 

Honestly, the best guard dog we ever had growing up was a yorkie. She believed herself to be 150 lbs of vicious killing machine to anything and everything that didn't belong on her property. Her bark was worst than her bite though, and she was terrible with kids. 

The companion cats are indoors, but we always seem to have a couple barn cats that find their way here. We also have a beagle/corgi mix that is our companion dog. He's his own headache as far as chasing chickens, but he's getting better. He's worthless for guarding though. Everyone is a friend, and he doesn't bark.  The dog/pup will need to be tolerate of them..I know that can be trained with socialization to an extent, but I am weary of breeds that can be aggressive.

So...family farm/guard dog?


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## 1shotwade

I have to agree with the above post. If you want an "alarm" animal the best choice is Geese,guineas or peafowl.
If you want something to actually fight off unwanted intrusion my choice would be an "old,large breed German police." I think they are still hands down the best choice,especially when it comes to having children around.I can't say enough good about them.If you decide to go this route your best choice would be a very young pup you can train to your specifications and keep him in constant contact with all your animals from the beginning so he will know what is and is not expected of him.


Wade


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## Maura

A Bouvier des Flanders. They were bred as herding dogs. They are excellent companion dogs, guard dogs, watch dogs. Their heavy coat is a bit much, but you can have their fur clipped to a couple of inches. Research lines because they have been heavily bred by puppy mills. Parents should have hips x-rayed. A purebred would be expensive, but you may be able to find one in rescue. Also, breeders often have to take back a puppy (now a young dog) or find one they kept is not going to be show quality, and you can get a fine dog for much less than a puppy.

However, your first line of defense should be electric fencing.


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## Kristabelle

We are definitely redoing our fencing and our gates. What was up before is really not up to par and I don't want to introduce any more livestock until we're more secure. 

After the scrap robbery, I'm really jumpy. The house is secure but I keep thinking of something like that happening again while we are there. It's highly unlikely, but I guess they could always come back. Charlie, our housemutt, would welcome them with open arms. Geese and guineas are interesting! I actually do want guineas because of the ticks out here. I know they're loud..there's a whole mess of them up the road that go [email protected]#$! every time we walk by their yard on our evening strolls. 

What about GSDs? I've heard their prey drive varies from line to line.


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## citxmech

I had a (mostly) GSD that was fantastic around our critters and cats (she was well socialized early). I didn't put much faith in her as a real guard dog though. Also, she was cursed with bad hips in middle-age - which seems to be a persistent problem in the breed. 

Some of the PP lines, I understand, can be pretty over-the-top in terms of dominance and energy - so you want to be careful not to get too much dog for your purposes. The good folks over at Leerburg have lots of resources geared to GSDs and Malinois in case you haven't checked them out. 

My LGD, oddly enough, has been a real challenge around cats - she tolerates ours (with much work), and will obey a "leave it" command when we encounter a neighborhood kitty on-leash - but off-leash she'll try to kill a cat she doesn't know. I think she intuitively puts them in the "predator" bin. 

Revisiting you fences is a great idea. Making sure you can keep your dog in will make you sleep much better at night - especially with any of the more powerful breeds.


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## CAjerseychick

Our Boxers had little prey drive (very easy to take camping off leash, they stuck with their people) and are great great kids dogs/ family dogs but look pretty intimidating with a nice bark.
Any dog will need to get used to livestock and chickens, pups are the best bet, for a nice guard and to protect your family (good with your kids but neccessarily kids it doesnt know) is the giant schnauzer, they were, originally a farm dog....(ours always lived with cats and it took a bit to get her used to poultry, she was always fine with goats, but then again she didnt get to farm life til she was 2..)...


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## RedDirt Cowgirl

My uncle had a German shepherd when the kids were growing up and it was the most excellent guardian and family dog. Good with bunnies. The most loyal and stick at home dog - he never needed to be fenced in. Best for coyotes too.


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## Kristabelle

I've read about the GSD quite a bit, and have quite a bit more reading to do. We had one when I was very very young. I barely remember him, but I know he was a great farm dog. He was prone to wandering though, and he eventually got himself shot due to wandering into an already grumpy neighbor's yard. We got him when he was an adult, though.

It seems like such a loyal, beautiful, hard working dog. It's the one we're really leaning towards.  Thanks, folks!


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## simi-steading

I'm gonna mention boxers too. They were bred to be guard dogs, and they have great dispositions.. Matter a fact, it's what I'm getting for our farm.. a friend is keeping one for me until we get moved... 

I've thought about a lot of different breeds, and I keep coming back to a boxer.. Just hard to beat for a great all around family and working dog.. Here's a good write-up about their abilities and personalities.. 

http://dogtime.com/dog-breeds/boxer


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## 1shotwade

Kristabelle said:


> I've read about the GSD quite a bit, and have quite a bit more reading to do. We had one when I was very very young. I barely remember him, but I know he was a great farm dog. He was prone to wandering though, and he eventually got himself shot due to wandering into an already grumpy neighbor's yard. We got him when he was an adult, though.
> 
> It seems like such a loyal, beautiful, hard working dog. It's the one we're really leaning towards.  Thanks, folks!


I'm no dog expert but one of the main reasons I recommend the old,large breed German police is that they seem to have a natural tendance to care for children and they have the size to whip up on a pack of coyote.The old German police seem to be a more refined Shepard breed for protective trates.
As a child of 5 or 6 I managed to get into the middle of a state highway and was playing.Old Pal,my grandfathers German police knocked me to the ground,grabbed me by the pants and drug me over into the yard up against a tree and sat on me and started barking until someone came out to get me.
I think you should look very hard at all the"sub breeds" before making a discussion but if at all possible,start with a pup so it will understand it's role of protecting the entire environment it lives in.


Wade


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## Pops2

a good cur dog. catahoula, black mouth, Lacy, ringneck, old fashioned mt cur, etc. all are not especially stranger friendly with the catahoula and the black mouth being the most aggressive toward uninvited adults and teens. they can be taught most any job you want and will become down right driven once they learn raccoons, coyotes and fox are not welcome. They can be pretty hard on stray dogs as well. they are natural herding dogs but are bred for rough stock like cattle and horses, so you will have to teach them to be gentle with the goats.


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## motdaugrnds

Were I in your shoes with the 4-legged as well as 2-legged predators, I would definately go with a large breed and it would not be an LGD. My choices would be either a German Shepherd (short-haired) or a Rottweilder, getting it as a pup and training it to leave your fowl alone. (Both breeds are great with children; however, you will need to be able to maintain your alpha position.)

As for fowl, guineas are great to warn you but they will probably not stay on your place. I have Brown Chinese Geese and no stranger comes near the place without their knowing it. Also, they are "weeder" geese and will find their own food. All they need is a place to sleep that is safe.


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## Maura

Beauviers are used as guard dogs and are very intimidating. They also have enough sense to know not everyone is a threat. They were bred as herding dogs and are good around livestock, children, etc. They do not roam like some LGDs do. Not the fastest learners, but very obedient. They protect by knocking a person down. Their routine is to give the person the opportunity to back down and leave; they bite last.


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## CAjerseychick

both the GSD and Bouviers sound promising but with the GSD I am confused as there are sooooooo many GSD to choose from the likely hood of getting that old school German style dog is low, imo...
(the german style Boxer was a great dog for us though, smaller and good for the house- I love all my dogs but that one was the all around best)...


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## Spamela

I wouldn't be too stuck on the breed for the kind of dog you are looking for.

I get my dogs from the humane society. The two girls I have now are the greatest dogs. Both mutts(tho I do think they have GSD in them somewhere bc their coats have that color) they were 7 and 11 when we adopted them 3 years ago, but idk they don't act like old dogs.

They came from the same place and I could tell they were house dogs cuz they really wanted in the house. I had to train them not to attack the chickens and cat but now they are awesome with them. My chickens free range and I hardly ever loose one bc those girls think they are ferocious killers. They never let a racoon/opposum/fox leave the property once they set foot on it. We constantly find dead ***** in the yard. We never have a problem with coyotes.

They alert me everytime someone pulls in or walks by, but they are friendly to people(which is how I like it I would never have a people aggresive dog). The barking of a dog will deter burglars.

FYI if you have small kids you do not want geese. Even the nicest geese WILL get aggressive during mating and baby season.

I guess what I am trying to say with this long story(sorry) is that old dogs can learn new tricks and that there are millions of dogs in shelters all over that are just begging for a job. My needs are pretty much exactly the same as yours when it comes to dogs and I have never been disappointed from a mutt I got from the shelter.

The thing I would be careful about is getting a dog with a suitable coat for cold weather. A boxer or doberman would not be able to be out in the middle of the night in january bc they have too short of coat. That kind of defeats the purpose for a guard dog to me if they can't be out in all kinds of weather. Also IMO a herding type dog has TONS energy and they need a JOB all the time or they get bored very easily will become a nuisence.

If you are stuck on getting a pure bred dog I think GSD is a very good choice but they can be tricky. DH had one growing up, and they could not have cats or chickens bc he would kill them, or other dogs around bc he was very protective. Never the less he really loved that dog. Getting one young enough and socializing them you could get around that, but just be aware you would definitley have to work on it.


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## CAjerseychick

That was a nice reminder on shelter dogs Spamela... we had our share of mutts growing up...
(one was a GSD mix our dog lovign neighbor fed under our house the week we were away on vacation- sure enough the dog was pretty stuck to the location by the time we got back)...

One thing about the boxer though-- it gets pretty darn cold in Germany, where the breed was developed...although yeah, if its a house dog, you wouldnt want to suddenly put it out at night all night (although if it had a dog house on the front porch with a blanket and straw to retreat to- it should be ok)... I missed that about cold weather?...


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## Spamela

CAjerseychick said:


> That was a nice reminder on shelter dogs Spamela... we had our share of mutts growing up...
> (one was a GSD mix our dog lovign neighbor fed under our house the week we were away on vacation- sure enough the dog was pretty stuck to the location by the time we got back)...
> 
> One thing about the boxer though-- it gets pretty darn cold in Germany, where the breed was developed...although yeah, if its a house dog, you wouldnt want to suddenly put it out at night all night (although if it had a dog house on the front porch with a blanket and straw to retreat to- it should be ok)... I missed that about cold weather?...


http://www.atlantaboxerrescue.org/meettheboxer.html
copy and pasted
Boxers should NEVER be outside dogs. One, because they are such &#8220;people dogs&#8221;. They will attempt to escape in order to find human contact. If not over a fence of considerable height then under! (watch this video of a Boxer scaling an 8-ft. fence!) Secondly, due to their short muzzles (brachiocephalic facial structure) they have the inability to regulate heat and humidity. Also, their short coats give them no protection from cold temperatures. If you&#8217;re looking for an outside dog &#8211; a Boxer is not for you!


We had -40 degree temperatures this year. I bet it got pretty cold in Indiana too. A boxer might survive outside but i bet he would be pretty miserable. I always wanted to adopt a great dane but I can't because I don't want an inside dog and like the boxer they lack any substantial undercoat which provides all the insulation.


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## Spamela

I was just reading the answers again and semi-steading also suggested boxers so I clicked on the link he provided for more info
http://dogtime.com/dog-breeds/boxer

Quote
Boxers should not be left outdoors for extended periods of time. Their short nose doesn't cool hot air efficiently in the summer, and their short coat doesn't keep them warm in the winter. Many Boxer people joke that their Boxers' range of tolerance is between 72 and 74 degrees Fahrenheit (21-22 degrees Celsius).



If you want the dog to deter coyotes, they typically come out at night. And they get exceptionally hungry in the winter.


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## JasoninMN

When breed recommendations are asked for people often post their favorite breeds despite how fitting they may be.


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## CAjerseychick

Spamela said:


> I was just reading the answers again and semi-steading also suggested boxers so I clicked on the link he provided for more info
> http://dogtime.com/dog-breeds/boxer
> 
> Quote
> Boxers should not be left outdoors for extended periods of time. Their short nose doesn't cool hot air efficiently in the summer, and their short coat doesn't keep them warm in the winter. Many Boxer people joke that their Boxers' range of tolerance is between 72 and 74 degrees Fahrenheit (21-22 degrees Celsius).
> 
> 
> 
> If you want the dog to deter coyotes, they typically come out at night. And they get exceptionally hungry in the winter.


The limited temp range on boxers is overrated.
We had them for FIFTEEN years- backcountry deadreckoning camping wearing their own backpacks- one year it snowed .... (that was too cold for me though, not the kind of vacation I was hoping for)....
I am not sure ANY dog other than the LGDs (who dont really have a choice) are suited for -40 degree winters outdoors... (sorry my multiple quote thing not working)...
I have had several breeds of dogs and the Boxers rank right up there with some of the most active, durable, and tough ones I have had.
(I cannot say any GSD, rottie enthusiast will reccommend you leave those breeds outdoors with little human contact either- the breeds under consideration are all extremely handler oriented and have that drive to be with their people- it was a trait bred into them)...
I wish I had pics to post , but several computer crashes later (am on a borrowed one now that isnt 100% arghhh) I have lost most of my photos....

The OP is looking for a family farm dog for 1 acre. Am sure dog will have housing and probably alot more companionship as such than the average yard dog abandoned out back...

Boxers are not my current favorites BTW, I just think people overlook them and they are a great family dog, not too aggressive, protective yet forgiving.

IF the OP can see to it they have winter protection (my old gal had a jacket she wore, I couldnt keep her inside that last year, she kept wandering back to her dog bed in the garage- I had to put her down one month shy of her 14th birthday)


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## Kristabelle

Wow, this thread has really taken off! I don't touch the computer on the weekends so I didn't get to see all of the posts. Lots of great information here!!

We are currently talking to several local shelters about our needs. Some shelters don't like to adopt out to indoor/outdoor living situations but there are a couple here that understand that is why people in our area generally seek out large dogs. We figure that a shelter dog has already had his manners tested out and has been around cats(a common prey drive trigger), plus they're fixed with their shots up to date..and they need homes!


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## Spamela

CAjerseychick said:


> The limited temp range on boxers is overrated.
> We had them for FIFTEEN years- backcountry deadreckoning camping wearing their own backpacks- one year it snowed .... (that was too cold for me though, not the kind of vacation I was hoping for)....
> I am not sure ANY dog other than the LGDs (who dont really have a choice) are suited for -40 degree winters outdoors... (sorry my multiple quote thing not working)...
> I have had several breeds of dogs and the Boxers rank right up there with some of the most active, durable, and tough ones I have had.
> (I cannot say any GSD, rottie enthusiast will reccommend you leave those breeds outdoors with little human contact either- the breeds under consideration are all extremely handler oriented and have that drive to be with their people- it was a trait bred into them)...
> I wish I had pics to post , but several computer crashes later (am on a borrowed one now that isnt 100% arghhh) I have lost most of my photos....
> 
> The OP is looking for a family farm dog for 1 acre. Am sure dog will have housing and probably alot more companionship as such than the average yard dog abandoned out back...
> 
> Boxers are not my current favorites BTW, I just think people overlook them and they are a great family dog, not too aggressive, protective yet forgiving.
> 
> IF the OP can see to it they have winter protection (my old gal had a jacket she wore, I couldnt keep her inside that last year, she kept wandering back to her dog bed in the garage- I had to put her down one month shy of her 14th birthday)


I didn't mean to offend you. I was just pointing out something to consider. Which was to look at the coat of any dog(not just boxers), and see if it will be able to handle your climate adequetly if they are going to be spending at least a portion of their time outside.

Obviously CA and the midwest don't really have the same climate, so it's not really fair to compare. My OLD girls 10 and 14 did well this winter, they spent their nights in the milkhouse with lots of bedding. If it were true that no dog could be in that temperature, there would be no outside dogs in the entire upper midwest(or anywhere else really cold) but I can tell you for sure that there are plenty. I don't know if this has been proven or not, but I was always taught that once a dog is acclimated to colder temperature, it is actually worse to bring them in and get them warm, and then turn them back out in it again, than it would be for them to remain outside in a nice draft free shelter.

Just to clarify(not that I think it's what you meant) my girls aren't abandoned out back. They are primarily outside dogs(because I don't want to have to worry about "letting them out to do their business" and I just think dogs like it outside) but I like for them to come in and visit. As a matter of fact while I am here at work, those girls are snuggled up on the couch with DH.

Anyway, sorry to get off topic.


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## CAjerseychick

Sorry Spamela,
although directed at the content of your post- of course its not personally directed at you or your care of your dogs (afterall I dont know you, or up til now have any idea of how you care for your dogs)--

in general it irks me, when people (not just you) make that same comment about Boxers limited temperature range--

while of course I wouldnt take them to deepest darkest Florida ( the heat combined with humidity would be hard)- they do alot better in dry heat-- 105's like we have here but its dry- 20% humidity or so....

We have a Bernese Mt dog, and while he probably would enjoy -40 winters (he sleeps out in snow) or atleast be fairly comfortable with the kind of shelter you described...
I have to say he is the least adaptable of all my breeds under my belt- from golden retrievers to treeing walkers to chows to airedales (actually no one has mentioned this breed that might be better fit, they have a nice all weather coat), to pit mixes etc....
He is heavy, I can see joint issues pending, just not a very durable dog- although he is fairly good watchdog (good barker, and oddly people do seem frightened at his loud barking) and vigilant.....
Just not a dog I can take with me out and about or on many adventures.... (I like having a family dog that can go with and do lots of things with, as well as be a good, atleast , visual detterent)...
Ok too long already- I wish Kristabelle the best in her search!


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## Cannon_Farms

My two favorite general purpose and will actually keep their butts home dogs would be my beloved English Mastiff and my second the Akita, neither ideal for a first time dog owner but both breeds can be well adjusted farm dogs. I dont run dogs with my goats on our small acreage (5) but rather like having them outside to keep anything from getting in and my mastiff is awesome, wouldnt hurt anyone but will scare the poop out of you if you dont know him really well. Akitas are more likely to bite. Dont pick out a pup with high prey drive, if it seems to like to chase leave it with the breeder, you can always tell those pups by watching them run and play with the rest of the litter. Great Pyrenees, Anatolian like breeds require space and room to roam to be happy


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