# Aunt Jemima’s family responds



## Alice In TX/MO (May 10, 2002)

Erasing a family’s history isn’t nice. 

https://www.theblaze.com/news/great-grandson-of-aunt-jemina-outraged-quaker-oats


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## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

No ones family history is erased. If that was true then the person who was the Aunt Jemima before her was erased and the one before her as well. No one woman was this character. It was from a minstrel song for a black faced character. Many women over the years represented the character.


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## Lisa in WA (Oct 11, 2004)

painterswife said:


> No ones family history is erased. If that was true then the person who was the Aunt Jemima before her was erased and the one before her as well. No one woman was this character. It was from a minstrel song for a black faced character. Many women over the years represented the character.


So you know better than the black family of the woman the artwork was based on?
As a white woman you get to deny what that black family feels?


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## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

In case you don't know. The artwork being removed is not based on the person in the OPs story. The artwork being removed is from 1989. The from the story had not played the character for decades. More women played the character after her.


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## Alice In TX/MO (May 10, 2002)

Blah. Blah. Blah. 

The Americans who follow this stuff are being PLAYED. 

I withdraw.


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## wr (Aug 10, 2003)

painterswife said:


> No ones family history is erased. If that was true then the person who was the Aunt Jemima before her was erased and the one before her as well. No one woman was this character. It was from a minstrel song for a black faced character. Many women over the years represented the character.


You disregard the feelings and opinions of a black person because his feelings and opinions don't fit your narrative and leave behind a trail of hurt. 

This is the very reason that I've said several times that as a minority, it is not wise to hand one's voice over to people who feel they know what's best. 

How can black people possibly get the respect and courtesy they feel they need when white people feel to speak for them, dismiss black people's opinions, tell the world what they really need and what they really meant to say? 

Do you truly feel that Oprah Winfrey's success was hindered by being offended by pancake syrup or a box of rice?


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## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

I disegarded nothing.. I did not talk about feelings only about facts.


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

painterswife said:


> No ones family history is erased.


It will be if they change the name.
You can pretend it won't.



painterswife said:


> I disegarded nothing.


There's always the denial.
Here's what you disregarded:


> "How do you think I feel as a black man sitting here telling you about my family history they're trying to erase?"





painterswife said:


> I did not talk about feelings *only about facts*.


I seem to have missed that part.



painterswife said:


> *In case you don't know*. The artwork being removed is not based on the person in the OPs story. The artwork being removed is from 1989. The from the story had not played the character for decades. More women played the character after her.


I case you don't know, changing the name is the same as "erasing the history".
In a few years everyone will have forgotten all about those women.
Read my signature.
At least we will have this to look forward to:

Shaquille O'atmeal


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## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

Changing a name does not change history. LOL.


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

painterswife said:


> Changing a name does not *change* history.


You said that already. (Sort of, since you're doing that rewording thing you like to do)

It seems you're in the minority with that *opinion* though.

I think the people actually involved have a better grasp on reality, and they think it erases a lot of history.


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## SLADE (Feb 20, 2004)

It's not a corporations job to preserve history.
That's not what butters their bread.
I would suggest all you outraged history fans start buying more of their products.


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## doozie (May 21, 2005)

Larnell Evans Sr. is an alleged great-grandson of Anna S. Harrington. 

The Evans family have feuded with the brand previously. In 2014, a lawsuit was filed against PepsiCo seeking monetary compensation, as the Aunt Jemima models had not been paid what they were promised. This resulted in a $3 billion lawsuit which was led by Larnell Evans Jr. and D.W. Hunter. 

U.S. District Judge Edmond E. Chang dismissed the lawsuit in 2015 for lack of proof, claiming the two men could not prove they were related to Anna S. Harrington. 

*THE EVANS FAMILY AND AUNT JEMIMA*
Chang dismissed the case stating that those claiming to be Aunt Jemima’s relatives did not have the evidence to back up this claim.

Chang notes, “The only information about Plaintiffs’ connection to Harrington provided by the amended complaint is an account of how Hunter received a photograph (now lost) of Harrington from his grandmother and of Plaintiffs’ attempt to locate Harrington’s grave in Syracuse, New York.”

So, it is still unclear whether Larnell Evans is actually related to one of the original “Aunt Jemima’s” at all.

https://www.hitc.com/en-gb/2020/06/19/aunt-jemima-great-grandson-enraged/


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## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

Looks like the first money grab failed and they might be trying for a new one.


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## no really (Aug 7, 2013)

Looks like things never change, one group trying to control another, with the excuse it's for your own good.


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## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

A corporation controlling their own bottom line is the only controlling happening.


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## no really (Aug 7, 2013)

painterswife said:


> A corporation controlling their own bottom line is the only controlling happening.


Of course it is


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## SLADE (Feb 20, 2004)

My money my choice.


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## no really (Aug 7, 2013)

SRSLADE said:


> My money my choice.


Good for you and me..


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## no really (Aug 7, 2013)

New packaging coming up.


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## GTX63 (Dec 13, 2016)

It seems very few white people, either rich or poor, ever ask for any other race to speak up for them.


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## no really (Aug 7, 2013)

Bearfootfarm said:


> You said that already. (Sort of, since you're doing that rewording thing you like to do)
> 
> It seems you're in the minority with that *opinion* though.
> 
> I think the people actually involved have a better grasp on reality, and they think it erases a lot of history.


The ends justify the means


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## SLADE (Feb 20, 2004)

no really said:


> New packaging coming up.


I would buy all those products.
This was already done in the 80s


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## GunMonkeyIntl (May 13, 2013)

no really said:


> New packaging coming up.


That’s really just the transitional packaging while they wait for the graphic-artist proofs of the end product:


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## no really (Aug 7, 2013)

SRSLADE said:


> I would buy all those products.
> This was already done in the 80s


Yep, it's been done. To help the sensitive among the population, it should be the new normal IMO


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## gleepish (Mar 10, 2003)

Suddenly everybody cares about June 19th, about Aunt Jemima and Uncle Ben... Even Eskimo Pies are being renamed since that word is so offensive. 

It's like everyone suddenly decided to take the red pill and now our country is "WOKE". Personally I find it embarrassing.


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## GTX63 (Dec 13, 2016)

If the FDA would fail a bag of saltines for a hair or a fingernail clipping inside, would they also fail a box of Soylent Green crackers for the same infraction?


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## no really (Aug 7, 2013)

gleepish said:


> Suddenly everybody cares about June 19th, about Aunt Jemima and Uncle Ben... Even Eskimo Pies are being renamed since that word is so offensive.
> 
> It's like everyone suddenly decided to take the red pill and now our country is "WOKE". Personally I find it embarrassing.


The kneeling is kinda cringe worthy too.


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## GTX63 (Dec 13, 2016)

gleepish said:


> Suddenly everybody cares about June 19th, about Aunt Jemima and Uncle Ben... Even Eskimo Pies are being renamed since that word is so offensive.
> 
> It's like everyone suddenly decided to take the red pill and now our country is "WOKE". Personally I find it embarrassing.


It is embarrassing. Those bright eyed folks believe they are standing on moral and principal. It seems however, that they just hopped on that platform when it came passing by.
They seem to enjoy platforms that have exposure and views and likes.


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## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

They may have been late to the station but they got there. Standing against racism is to be commended. Trying to belittle those that do, not so much.


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## no really (Aug 7, 2013)

GTX63 said:


> It is embarrassing. Those bright eyed folks believe they are standing on moral and principal. It seems however, that they just hopped on that platform when it came passing by.
> They seem to enjoy platforms that have exposure and views and likes.


Always Trying to ‘Save’ People? You Might Have a Savior Complex

A savior complex, or white knight syndrome, describes this need to “save” people by fixing their problems.

In general, people consider helpfulness a positive trait, so you might not see anything wrong with trying to save others. But there’s a difference between helping and saving.

According to Dr. Maury Joseph, a psychologist in Washington, D.C., savior tendencies can involve fantasies of omnipotence. In other words, you believe someone out there is capable of single-handedly making everything better, and that person happens to be you.

https://www.healthline.com/health/savior-complex#signs


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## GTX63 (Dec 13, 2016)

If that is you, that is ok. Just own it.
That makes it difficult for others to question one's motives.
I love help sometimes. I also appreciate it when one asks and then politely accepts my refusal.
If people continue to volunteer their "help" then either I am doing something wrong or they are.


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## SLADE (Feb 20, 2004)

Some people like branding. Some don't.
It's an historical fact.


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## GTX63 (Dec 13, 2016)

One's motives are their own, but they make for better optics when you do things away from the public, and not when the furor and hype are at a peak. Then it is more like Chicago Cub fans that only show up when they are winning.


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## GTX63 (Dec 13, 2016)

SRSLADE said:


> Some people like branding. Some don't.
> It's an historical fact.


Labels have been used for the past decade or so to great effect. It passes over having to study up on the details of one's position.
It works with cliches too.


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## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

Optics? How about doing the right thing no matter how others try to belittle that choice.


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## GTX63 (Dec 13, 2016)

Absolutely.
And consistency is a great arbiter of intent.


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## Redlands Okie (Nov 28, 2017)

no really said:


> New packaging coming up.



I am surprised that some on here did not have issues with the picture above. Only has Caucasian appearing women in it and green ink. Oops almost forgot the white only packages.


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

“If you’re not politically confused at the moment, you’re not paying attention.”
— Bret Weinstein

_It is going to create an indefinitely long cycle of retribution, rather than the Martin Luther King vision, which effectively is, we must forge ahead towards a level playing field. The level playing field is a desirable, stable state. Now, I do think a fair criticism might be progress towards the level playing field has stalled. What are we going to do about that? If those in the social justice movement were saying that, I would be a lot more inclined to listen to what they had to say about the evidence that it has stalled and a plan to jumpstart it. But, that's not what they're saying. It's effectively a power grab and the, as you said, and as I said in my email, the reversal of the day of absence was a symbolic exercise of power. We now have the power to tell you where you can and cannot be, and it has to be opposed. Any reasonable person should oppose it.

https://www.defiance.news/def007-bret-weinstein_​


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## Lisa in WA (Oct 11, 2004)

painterswife said:


> Looks like the first money grab failed and they might be trying for a new one.


I’m shocked.
More liberal white privilege.
A good “ally” would have known that of course, black people would have a hard time proving ancestry. 
Do you also want to deny Henrietta Lacks descendants their monetary inheritance? They want money too.
Or is that okay because that doesn’t go against your agenda?


_“It seems like common sense that Hunter and Evans’ legal team would have tracked the men’s ancestry through death and birth certificates. But anyone who has ever watched an episode of the Henry Louis Gates program African American Lives knows that because records weren’t always kept for the births and deaths of black folks, that process of tracing one’s genealogy isn’t always so simple.

Babies tended to be delivered at home in the late 19th and early 20th century, the time frame during which Harrington would have been born, and births weren’t always registered. Even if a record was kept, if a local city hall went up in flames, all proof of someone’s birth or death would disappear. After all, there were no photocopiers or online databases back then.”_




http://www.takepart.com/article/2015/02/19/judge-flattens-aunt-jemima-heirs-lawsuit


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

gleepish said:


> It's like everyone suddenly decided to take the red pill


I have to question this. Did most everyone take the red pill or the blue pill?

The red pill and blue pill is a meme representing a choice between taking either a "red pill" that reveals an unpleasant truth, or taking a "blue pill" to remain in blissful ignorance. The terms are directly derived from a scene in the 1999 film The Matrix.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_pill_and_blue_pill​


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## GTX63 (Dec 13, 2016)

Why is there only the choice of the above?


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

GTX63 said:


> Why is there only the choice of the above?


What other choice is there between choosing truth (ever how unpleasant) and choosing to be ignorant?


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## GTX63 (Dec 13, 2016)

A diluted concoction.


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

GTX63 said:


> A diluted concoction.


Where most, in fact, might be.


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## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

I'm beginning to wonder if a certain few members posted something undeniably true, such as: "The sun rises in the east" would another certain few members respond with something along the lines of: "Not on Mars!" Or "Sunsets are better!"? 

It doesn't make for good discussion.


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## doozie (May 21, 2005)

"The two plantiffs have yet to release a statement about the suit’s dismissal. However, since it seems they also didn’t have much evidence of a written contract, the case was always going to be tough for them to win."


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## Lisa in WA (Oct 11, 2004)

doozie said:


> "The two plantiffs have yet to release a statement about the suit’s dismissal. However, since it seems they also didn’t have much evidence of a written contract, the case was always going to be tough for them to win."


Shameful.
Another liberal white woman working very hard to disprove a black family’s narrative because it doesn’t fit with the chosen narrative.
I think you are seeing this through your white privilege lens.
Are you certain all black women in the 30’s were even given contractual protections?
Maybe you need to sift through google for another few hours.
You go ahead...I’ll check back to see what you can come up with.


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## GunMonkeyIntl (May 13, 2013)

Irish Pixie said:


> I'm beginning to wonder if a certain few members posted something undeniably true, such as: "The sun rises in the east" would another certain few members respond with something along the lines of: "Not on Mars!" Or "Sunsets are better!"?
> 
> It doesn't make for good discussion.


And then there’s at least one “special” poster who would say something like:

_We’ve been over this before, and the pattern never changes. There’s a place where it doesn’t rise in the east, and I’m not going to tell you where, again, because patterns never change. I said it once before, so you’ll have to look it up. I’m not going to admit that I don’t remember either, because patterns never change. _


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## gleepish (Mar 10, 2003)

HDRider said:


> I have to question this. Did most everyone take the red pill or the blue pill?
> 
> The red pill and blue pill is a meme representing a choice between taking either a "red pill" that reveals an unpleasant truth, or taking a "blue pill" to remain in blissful ignorance. The terms are directly derived from a scene in the 1999 film The Matrix.
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_pill_and_blue_pill​


You know, that's a damned good point.... LOL


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## wr (Aug 10, 2003)

no really said:


> Yep, it's been done. To help the sensitive among the population, it should be the new normal IMO


I've said for a long time, the sensitive among us aren't the one's trying to be heard. They seem to be the ones who are telling minorities they they need to hit defcon level outrage , what they should think and how things need to be resolved. Unfortunately, very few have any idea of the social problems that are the real problems. 

I'm confident that BLM hasn't come close to resolving black on black crime, gangs, sexual assault, theft, or unemployment so I doubt very much if rewriting history is going improve things anytime in the near future. 

White people in Canada haven't resolved many problems on reserves and won't because their buddies will think they're bigots if the spoke the truth.


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## GTX63 (Dec 13, 2016)

Very true.
My wife works in organizing and running a local farmer's market. Her good friend has become very uncomfortable around people she doesn't know, because as she puts it, "People want to think everyone black is outraged and angry."
She isn't. She is embarrassed. Embarrassed at the current events and embarrassed that because of her color she needs sympathy support, and a hand to hold. She can sense people at the stands; some are uncomfortable and awkward when they see her and they just plain say stupid crap.
A modern day elitist version of "I've always liked your people."


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## wr (Aug 10, 2003)

GTX63 said:


> It seems very few white people, either rich or poor, ever ask for any other race to speak up for them.


Very few successful people became successful by wasting time being outraged about rice and pancake syrup.


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

wr said:


> White people in Canada haven't resolved many problems on reserves and won't because their buddies will think they're bigots if the spoke the truth.


Since I was a kid I have always felt some kinship to native Americans. Like others who's family has been here since the beginning, I have Indian blood. I am not sure that is why I feel the way I do. Maybe I feel this way because I see how destiny, the evil nature of man, an advanced culture conquered a primitive culture, or the powerful defeated the powerless. I don't really know why I feel what I feel.

That said, I have made a life long study of the plight of the American Indian. The one thing I keep coming back to is; the Indian has not been able to adjust to the new world, or they refuse to, or don't know how to. I don't know. I cannot explain it.

My question, asked in the most respective manner, how can "Canada" resolve the many problems on "reserves"? The whole idea of a "reserve" does nothing but try to "contain" the problem. It seems to me that each individual, each native, can only solve "their" own problem. That means no drugs, sobriety, education, finding one's own way in the world, earning a living and providing the best for one's self and family.


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## gleepish (Mar 10, 2003)

I'm wondering when the outrage will pick back up over the lack of diversity in advertising. If you haven't found something to be offended over, you obviously haven't looked hard enough.


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## wr (Aug 10, 2003)

GTX63 said:


> Very true.
> My wife works in organizing and running a local farmer's market. Her good friend has become very uncomfortable around people she doesn't know, because as she puts it, "People want to think everyone black is outraged and angry."
> She isn't. She is embarrassed. Embarrassed at the current events and embarrassed that because of her color she needs sympathy support, and a hand to hold. She can sense people at the stands; some are uncomfortable and awkward when they see her and they just plain say stupid crap.
> A modern day elitist version of "I've always liked your people."


We had a bunch of native blockades over a legally signed pipeline agreement with a band and I haven't felt that uncomfortable in a very long time. 

Thousands lost their jobs, companies unrelated to oil & gas lost millions of dollars daily and it all happened right before covid hit and while nobody wants to say it out loud, our food chain took a huge hit that has taken a long time to recover. 

Nobody wants to point fingers at the people hiding behind their balaklavas but you get the side eye when you're in town because strangers seem to think you've turned on society.


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## wr (Aug 10, 2003)

HDRider said:


> Since I was a kid I have always felt some kinship to native Americans. Like others who's family has been here since the beginning, I have Indian blood. I am not sure that is why I feel the way I do. Maybe I feel this way because I see how destiny, the evil nature of man, an advanced culture conquered a primitive culture, or the powerful defeated the powerless. I don't really know why I feel what I feel.
> 
> That said, I have made a life long study of the plight of the American Indian. The one thing I keep coming back to is; the Indian has not been able to adjust to the new world, or they refuse to, or don't know how to. I don't know. I cannot explain it.
> 
> My question, asked in the most respective manner, how can "Canada" resolve the many problems on "reserves"? The whole idea of a "reserve" does nothing but try to "contain" the problem. It seems to me that each individual, each native, can only solve "their" own problem. That means no drugs, sobriety, education, finding one's own way in the world, earning a living and providing the best for one's self and family.


Educate, rewrite the treaty, encourage bands to delelop businesses and employ people. Chief Clarence Louie has brought his people from poverty to prosperity quicker than most but not everybody agrees with him. 

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/rep...azine/clarence-louie-feature/article18913980/


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## wr (Aug 10, 2003)

HDRider said:


> Since I was a kid I have always felt some kinship to native Americans. Like others who's family has been here since the beginning, I have Indian blood. I am not sure that is why I feel the way I do. Maybe I feel this way because I see how destiny, the evil nature of man, an advanced culture conquered a primitive culture, or the powerful defeated the powerless. I don't really know why I feel what I feel.
> 
> That said, I have made a life long study of the plight of the American Indian. The one thing I keep coming back to is; the Indian has not been able to adjust to the new world, or they refuse to, or don't know how to. I don't know. I cannot explain it.
> 
> My question, asked in the most respective manner, how can "Canada" resolve the many problems on "reserves"? The whole idea of a "reserve" does nothing but try to "contain" the problem. It seems to me that each individual, each native, can only solve "their" own problem. That means no drugs, sobriety, education, finding one's own way in the world, earning a living and providing the best for one's self and family.


My family moved off rez and bought farmland generations ago. We live and work out there with everybody else. My great uncle was a judge with the Court of Queens bench, my grandfather was of the first graduating class of HD mechanics in the province, their sister was an accountant and their belief in education was passed on to each generation. 

In my world, there's no running on Indian time, I've never been seen in public with a drink in hand, I don't drink because alcoholism is a real risk, have never touched a video gaming terminal, I've never received a welfare cheque, don't know how to apply for one and ironically, my youngest was injured at work a few years ago and I mentioned he'd have to apply for short term disability and his head exploded because he honestly thought it was welfare. 

I speak 3 languages, have not lost my culture, I know the old ways and know that in order for me to succeed in the world, I also need to assimilate.


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## GunMonkeyIntl (May 13, 2013)

painterswife said:


> They may have been late to the station but they got there. Standing against racism is to be commended. Trying to belittle those that do, not so much.


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

wr said:


> Educate, rewrite the treaty, encourage bands to delelop businesses and employ people. Chief Clarence Louie has brought his people from poverty to prosperity quicker than most but not everybody agrees with him.
> 
> https://www.theglobeandmail.com/rep...azine/clarence-louie-feature/article18913980/


I think we agree

“As I grew up and studied our history, I became convinced that the remedy to most of our problems was economic development. We needed to close the circle and reclaim the power that we had before white people came along.”​We suffer this rule too
First Nations cannot mortgage their own land. No collateral means no start-up financing from banks.​That was a good article. He seems like the typical hard nosed CEO with a vision. He is the Bill Gates of the Osoyoos. That is what any successful venture needs.


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

wr said:


> My family moved off rez and bought farmland generations ago. We live and work out there with everybody else. My great uncle was a judge with the Court of Queens bench, my grandfather was of the first graduating class of HD mechanics in the province, their sister was an accountant and their belief in education was passed on to each generation.
> 
> In my world, there's no running on Indian time, I've never been seen in public with a drink in hand, I don't drink because alcoholism is a real risk, have never touched a video gaming terminal, I've never received a welfare cheque, don't know how to apply for one and ironically, my youngest was injured at work a few years ago and I mentioned he'd have to apply for short term disability and his head exploded because he honestly thought it was welfare.
> 
> I speak 3 languages, have not lost my culture, I know the old ways and know that in order for me to succeed in the world, I also need to assimilate.


I admired you before and admire you more now.


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## nehimama (Jun 18, 2005)

painterswife said:


> Standing against racism is to be commended. Trying to belittle those that do, not so much.


Wait! Now "kneeling" is "standing"?


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

nehimama said:


> Wait! Now "kneeling" is "standing"?


You are every good at this. Scary good.


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## SLADE (Feb 20, 2004)

What we are witnessing is a redress of civil rights granted under law but not given to all people.
This is a battle for the rights of all people. a time when children are being taken from their parents and thrown in cages. A black man is killed for no apparent reason.
This is not a race issue this is a rights issue.


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## GTX63 (Dec 13, 2016)

Last night a 3 year old black baby was shot in Chicago ! No marches, no riots, no looting, hardly a mention on the news. 
Who took that baby's rights?
Which BLM represents him or her?


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

@Alice In TX/MO 

You have me asking myself this question. In general, and there are always exceptions (like you and I ), does there come a time when the aged mind has decided to not consider new data, and the mind is fixed in place. That mind will simply not change. That mind can only consider a solution a solution if it works with our fixed mind.


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

SRSLADE said:


> What we are witnessing is a redress of civil rights granted under law but not given to all people.
> This is a battle for the rights of all people. a time when children are being taken from their parents and thrown in cages. A black man is killed for no apparent reason.
> This is not a race issue this is a rights issue.


Describe what redress looks like


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

painterswife said:


> They may have been late to the station but they got there. Standing against racism is to be commended. Trying to belittle those that do, not so much.


There's the virtue signaling, right on cue. 
None of this is about "racism".
It's about control.


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## SLADE (Feb 20, 2004)

It's about rights.


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

SRSLADE said:


> It's about rights.


Everyone already has the same rights.


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## doozie (May 21, 2005)

Lisa in WA said:


> Shameful.
> Another liberal white woman working very hard to disprove a black family’s narrative because it doesn’t fit with the chosen narrative.
> I think you are seeing this through your white privilege lens.
> Are you certain all black women in the 30’s were even given contractual protections?
> ...


That sentiment came from your own link...perhaps you missed it. The point being it would be a hard case to win.


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## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

Bearfootfarm said:


> There's the virtue signaling, right on cue. It's about control.


Yes, it is about control. A small group trying to control what another small group posts by shaming, belittling, and name calling. It's not nice, and it makes meaningful discussion difficult.


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## JeffreyD (Dec 27, 2006)

Irish Pixie said:


> Yes, it is about control. A small group trying to control what another small group posts by shaming, belittling, and name calling. It's not nice, and it makes meaningful discussion difficult.


So why do you do it?


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## unohu (Mar 10, 2020)

I used to wonder why anyone did it and why neither side today can see themselves doing it to the other.
My only conclusion is the nature of humans to try and dominate and control whatever they think they should or perceive that they can.


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## georger (Sep 15, 2003)

I’d say that if a bottle of pancake syrup and a logo gets someone’s undies in a knot, that someone is the problem.

And I wonder why under 2 years of the Obama administration, this pancake syrup issue wasn’t an issue?

Sheesh.


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## Redlands Okie (Nov 28, 2017)

SRSLADE said:


> What we are witnessing is a redress of civil rights granted under law but not given to all people.
> This is a battle for the rights of all people. a time when children are being taken from their parents and thrown in cages. A black man is killed for no apparent reason.
> This is not a race issue this is a rights issue.


Everyone has the right to get off their butt, make something of them self’s. Follow the law and realize that arguing and resisting the legal system outside of the courtroom can be hazardous. If you look closely there is almost always more to the story than some want to tell. Be responsible for themselves and what they do. Get rid of the “you owe me” attitude and make something of themselves. Lots of people have these issues and it has little to do with race, its a rights issue that apparently they do not want to work at.


----------



## mreynolds (Jan 1, 2015)

SRSLADE said:


> It's about rights.


Which rights so they not have?


----------



## keenataz (Feb 17, 2009)

Lisa in WA said:


> So you know better than the black family of the woman the artwork was based on?
> As a white woman you get to deny what that black family feels?


This is the art work you speak of. You see a possible issue? I do.


----------



## keenataz (Feb 17, 2009)

HDRider said:


> “If you’re not politically confused at the moment, you’re not paying attention.”
> — Bret Weinstein
> 
> _It is going to create an indefinitely long cycle of retribution, rather than the Martin Luther King vision, which effectively is, we must forge ahead towards a level playing field. The level playing field is a desirable, stable state. Now, I do think a fair criticism might be progress towards the level playing field has stalled. What are we going to do about that? If those in the social justice movement were saying that, I would be a lot more inclined to listen to what they had to say about the evidence that it has stalled and a plan to jumpstart it. But, that's not what they're saying. It's effectively a power grab and the, as you said, and as I said in my email, the reversal of the day of absence was a symbolic exercise of power. We now have the power to tell you where you can and cannot be, and it has to be opposed. Any reasonable person should oppose it.
> ...


Why not use this picture?


----------



## keenataz (Feb 17, 2009)

Lisa in WA said:


> Shameful.
> Another liberal white woman working very hard to disprove a black family’s narrative because it doesn’t fit with the chosen narrative.
> I think you are seeing this through your white privilege lens.
> Are you certain all black women in the 30’s were even given contractual protections?
> ...


I know the majority of black women in the 30s travelled in different buses, stayed at different hotels and used different bathrooms.


----------



## Alice In TX/MO (May 10, 2002)

History is being filtered through contemporary lenses.


----------



## keenataz (Feb 17, 2009)

wr said:


> We had a bunch of native blockades over a legally signed pipeline agreement with a band and I haven't felt that uncomfortable in a very long time.
> 
> Thousands lost their jobs, companies unrelated to oil & gas lost millions of dollars daily and it all happened right before covid hit and while nobody wants to say it out loud, our food chain took a huge hit that has taken a long time to recover.
> 
> Nobody wants to point fingers at the people hiding behind their balaklavas but you get the side eye when you're in town because strangers seem to think you've turned on society.


I live in that area. Many of those people were paid protesters. 
Also at issue was First Nation governance, Hereditary Chiefs vs Elected government


----------



## keenataz (Feb 17, 2009)

Irish Pixie said:


> Yes, it is about control. A small group trying to control what another small group posts by shaming, belittling, and name calling. It's not nice, and it makes meaningful discussion difficult.


And complimenting, rewarding when a member posts what they agree with.


----------



## keenataz (Feb 17, 2009)

georger said:


> I’d say that if a bottle of pancake syrup and a logo gets someone’s undies in a knot, that someone is the problem.
> 
> And I wonder why under 2 years of the Obama administration, this pancake syrup issue wasn’t an issue?
> 
> Sheesh.


Actually it was 8 years. 

And surprisingly times change. It wasn’t that long ago The majority of people were against gay marriage. Times change.


----------



## Hiro (Feb 14, 2016)

Alice In TX/MO said:


> History is being filtered through contemporary lenses.


And for a dark purpose.


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## GTX63 (Dec 13, 2016)

Alice In TX/MO said:


> History is being filtered through contemporary lenses.


Meh, they can't all bait the cops, carry a big screen and burn down the Dairy Queens.


----------



## Alice In TX/MO (May 10, 2002)

Dark purpose? 

Just humans doing what they do.


----------



## Hiro (Feb 14, 2016)

GTX63 said:


> Meh, they can't all bait the cops, carry a big screen and burn down the Dairy Queens.


Few people seem to look past that. What is the purpose of those that organize these "protests" that turn into riots? Why is it in certain locales the "protests" are allowed to turn into arson and riots and in others it is not permitted? 

I am a goal oriented fellow. Even if things don't progress on the path that I envisioned, if it is headed towards the goal that I have in mind....i just kind of let it flow. Granted, my goals are getting this group of sheep to field 2 from field 3 or getting this group of bovines into this catch pen or getting this child to really think on subject x. But, if they take a different route than I think is the best and they divert, but are still heading that general direction.....I'll just watch and not intervene. 

Anyway, short diatribe to say: this current drama is not about race or white privilege or one skin colors matter. The marionette operators are goal oriented and we all need to recognize that goal, because it is diametrically opposed to the average citizens' best interests, regardless of what color their skin is.


----------



## Hiro (Feb 14, 2016)

Alice In TX/MO said:


> Dark purpose?
> 
> Just humans doing what they do.


Historically, yes. Presently, yes. But, the tools they employee and the groundwork that is laid make it dangerously more diabolical. IMHO.

But, I am an optimistic person. It will likely fail with a whimper, because only a minority of people hate so badly as many believe. And a large majority here, have the means to defend themselves with or without a government to protect them.


----------



## GTX63 (Dec 13, 2016)

Lets say I get a call from so and so at the hardware store, or bowling league or Moose Lodge.
"Hey" he says to me "We're all ticked off down here about this new septic tank inspection fee and we want you to come down with us to the county courthouse and let em know we're mad as heck and we ain't gonna take it anymore."
"Ok I say" and I put on a clean shirt and some comfortable shoes and paint me up a "Down with septic tanks" sign.
I get up there and Horbus and Leon pull out AKs and start shooting out the windows. Feeb lights up the Co Op and Lou pulls the meter molly into the bushes.
I'm out of there. Don't care for the cause or the ends. I am done. I don't stand around and watch it and smile at the tv trucks rolling in. I want no part of any action that allows and condones that crap, nor will I accept support from the puppeteers.


----------



## Hiro (Feb 14, 2016)

GTX63 said:


> Lets say I get a call from so and so at the hardware store, or bowling league or Moose Lodge.
> "Hey" he says to me "We're all ticked off down here about this new septic tank inspection fee and we want you to come down with us to the county courthouse and let em know we're made as heck and we ain't gonna take it anymore."
> "Ok I say" and I put on a clean shirt and some comfortable shoes and paint me up a "Down with septic tanks" sign.
> I get up there and Horbus and Leon pull out AKs and start shooting out the windows. Feeb lights up the Co Op and Lou pulls the meter molly into the bushes.
> I'm out of there. Don't care for the cause or the ends. I am done. I don't stand around and watch it and smile at the tv trucks rolling in. I want no part of any action that allows and condones that crap, nor will I accept support from the puppeteers.


I think most rational people, and they are more numerous than not, think the same way. If I were at a peaceful protest and some numskull started throwing rocks at the police, it is likely the police would be the least of their worries.


----------



## wr (Aug 10, 2003)

keenataz said:


> I live in that area. Many of those people were paid protesters.
> Also at issue was First Nation governance, Hereditary Chiefs vs Elected government


It was political posturing that would have been resolved fairly quickly, if it weren't for a bunch of outsiders with their own agenda that spoke loudly, created a frenzy, turned the country upside down, cost people jobs.

When the professional protesters moved on to their next bit of adventure, people weren't pointing fingers at Becky down the block, they were pointing fingers at innocents, which has been my point all along. 

People like yourself want to speak for minorities but when things get as ugly as they did here or even uglier, like the riots in the US, the same faces people think they're helping are the faces people see on the news causing all the destruction. 

Change does not come from white people speaking for minorities, change comes when we clean up our social problems, get rid of gangs, drug abuse, alcoholism and unemployment and that sure doesn't come from tearing down cities, blocking trains, killing our own people, destroying businesses that our own people have worked hard to build nor does it come from changing labels on syrup, rice, sports teams or butter. 

Racism isn't worse for any individual minority and we can't solve it one minority at a time, which is why BLM will not work.


----------



## keenataz (Feb 17, 2009)

wr said:


> It was political posturing that would have been resolved fairly quickly, if it weren't for a bunch of outsiders with their own agenda that spoke loudly, created a frenzy, turned the country upside down, cost people jobs.
> 
> When the professional protesters moved on to their next bit of adventure, people weren't pointing fingers at Becky down the block, they were pointing fingers at innocents, which has been my point all along.
> 
> ...




Mam or sir. You know nothing about me and what I do or feel about First Nation people. And the blockade never got ugly. 
And you’ll ask how I know. I am a First Nation Relations Advisor in the area for the government. So I suspect I know a bit more about it. 
There was no rioting, no businesses damaged, no killing. 
Btw. Do you know who hired the protesters?


----------



## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

Irish Pixie said:


> Yes, it is about control. A small group trying to control what another small group posts by shaming, belittling, and name calling. It's not nice, and it makes meaningful discussion difficult.


Then stop.


----------



## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

SRSLADE said:


> What we are witnessing is a redress of civil rights granted under law but not given to all people.
> This is a battle for the rights of all people. a time when children are being taken from their parents and thrown in cages. *A black man is killed for no apparent reason.*
> This is not a race issue this is a rights issue.


Who was "killed for no apparent reason"?


----------



## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

keenataz said:


> And complimenting, rewarding when a member posts what they agree with.


Yes, that's quite true too.
Like Post #71


----------



## CKelly78z (Jul 16, 2017)

Removing the black lady, and changing the name is another knee jerk reaction by these "WOKE" companies to the social pressure of racial tensions (real or not). It doesn't make business sense to do so, but in this day/age, appearances are everything.


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## Redlands Okie (Nov 28, 2017)

keenataz said:


> Mam or sir. You know nothing about me and what I do or feel about First Nation people. And the blockade never got ugly.
> And you’ll ask how I know. I am a First Nation Relations Advisor in the area for the government. So I suspect I know a bit more about it.
> There was no rioting, no businesses damaged, no killing.
> Btw. Do you know who hired the protesters?


Media relations hired the protestors ? Sounds like part of the job. Or do you have a link showing otherwise? Sounds like a mess.


----------



## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

BLM is working. Peaceful protest is making a difference.

Every group of people has their good and their bad and the good don't need to be responsible for the bad to make the rest of this country understand that racism is wrong and should not be tolerated in the government or work place. Seems like some have decided they have the right to tell them how to proceed while telling everyone else it is not their business.


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

keenataz said:


> I am a First Nation Relations Advisor in the area for the government


Wow. I am amazed you would admit that.


----------



## Redlands Okie (Nov 28, 2017)

Racism in the work place and government has long been illegal and I suspect it will not change. All I have seen new on the news as a result of the protest is destruction of public statues, and other escalating actions such as theft, arson, murder. Such things as police reform so far has been to ignore the vast majority of the law breakers participating in the above. The police shootings making the news that I have seen would probably have done so anyway. Departments have already had polices in place to handle such things and will continue to do so. Oh yes, one more thing I have noticed. A whole lot of political posturing with little long term thought and substance behind it.


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## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

Bearfootfarm said:


> Yes, that's quite true too.
> Like Post #71


And quite like post #67. The author of that post was nicely stroked.


----------



## no really (Aug 7, 2013)

Good catch post 67 was a logical well thought out post. It's a shame there are those that disparage logic.


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## GTX63 (Dec 13, 2016)

It may be linked to that self awareness thing.


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## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

no really said:


> Good catch post 67 was a logical well thought out post. It's a shame there are those that disparage logic.


I'm sorry. Apparently I wasn't completely clear, it was the amount of likes the post received. The OP clearly was referring to the likes on my post (#71) so I pointed out of theirs. 

Again, I will strive to be more clear when I post.


----------



## no really (Aug 7, 2013)

Irish Pixie said:


> I'm sorry. Apparently I wasn't completely clear, it was the amount of likes the post received. The OP clearly was referring to the likes on my post (#71) so I pointed out of theirs.
> 
> Again, I will strive to be more clear when I post.


Well it was a post that deserved the likes it received.


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## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

no really said:


> Well it was a post that deserved the likes it received.


I'm sure you think it was, and that's OK.


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## no really (Aug 7, 2013)

Irish Pixie said:


> I'm sure you think it was, and that's OK.


Life's good and I'm not bored.. LOL


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## gleepish (Mar 10, 2003)

Lets see how many of y'all I can tick off with this one--keep in mind, this is my opinion.

If we truly lived in a word that didn't thrive on racism the initial news would report have been "George Floyd, a 46 year old man, died today while being taken into custody by police officer, Derek Chauvin. An investigation into the incident has begun." Period. 

I'm not saying racism doesn't exist, it does. I've experienced it myself. But it is MUCH less widespread than what the evening news would like you to believe. 

But that's not what fuels the ratings, that's not what drives people to the polls, that's not what causes people to stand up and protest and that is definitely not was causes civil unrest, which in turn, fuels the ratings, drives people to the polls, gets people to stand up and protest and causes civil unrest, which in turn fuels the ratings..... It's a never ending cycle. 

Racism is illegal. Murder is illegal.

Maybe, like with so many other things, instead of trying to get new laws written, we need to start enforcing the laws we already have.


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

gleepish said:


> Lets see how many of y'all I can tick off with this one--keep in mind, this is my opinion.
> 
> If we truly lived in a word that didn't thrive on racism the initial news would report have been "George Floyd, a 46 year old man, died today while being taken into custody by police officer, Derek Chauvin. An investigation into the incident has begun." Period.
> 
> ...


Sure ticked me off


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## Alice In TX/MO (May 10, 2002)

I am unticked. 

However, I am concerned. My neighbor’s 11 year old son comes in the mornings to play with the rabbits and to visit. Yesterday he was anxious about the end of the world coming THAT DAY and about rogue black holes swallowing up the Earth. 

Today, in the course of conversation, he mentioned “all the shootings” that were happening “all the time in big towns like Austin”, etc. We talked through that, and I googled statistics to help him realize that his fears were based on media reports, not reality. 

The conversation here occasionally reminds me of his conversations. Much ado about some things that really don’t have much impact on most folks in most places.


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## SLADE (Feb 20, 2004)

When some should have been doing the right thing. They were doing the "RIGHT" thing.


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## mreynolds (Jan 1, 2015)

SRSLADE said:


> When some should have been doing the right thing. They were doing the "RIGHT" thing.


When are you going to learn? Racism isn't about left or right, it's about wrong.


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## SLADE (Feb 20, 2004)

That's what I said.


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

Irish Pixie said:


> And quite like post #67. The author of that post was nicely stroked.


That has nothing to do with me.
I can't control anyone other than myself.



Irish Pixie said:


> I'm sorry. Apparently I wasn't completely clear, *it was the amount of likes the post received*. The OP clearly was referring to the likes *on my post* (#71) so I pointed out of theirs.


You're always clear. Transparent even. 

It really has nothing to do with "the amount of likes", so you are confused about that too.

You also mistakenly think I chose "your" post as an example.
I merely chose the first one I saw that fit this description:



keenataz said:


> And complimenting, rewarding when a member posts what they agree with.


You didn't take into consideration the actual *context* of what I posted due to your habit of thinking it's always about *you* personally.


----------



## wr (Aug 10, 2003)

keenataz said:


> Mam or sir. You know nothing about me and what I do or feel about First Nation people. And the blockade never got ugly.
> And you’ll ask how I know. I am a First Nation Relations Advisor in the area for the government. So I suspect I know a bit more about it.
> There was no rioting, no businesses damaged, no killing.
> Btw. Do you know who hired the protesters?


You have your status card?


----------



## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

wr said:


> You have your status card?


What is a First Nation Relations Advisor?


----------



## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

Bearfootfarm said:


> That has nothing to do with me.


Of course not...


----------



## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

Would having your status card make any difference in someones knowledge about an event?


----------



## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

painterswife said:


> Would having your status card make any difference in someones knowledge about an event?





Irish Pixie said:


> Of course not...


----------



## keenataz (Feb 17, 2009)

Redlands Okie said:


> Media relations hired the protestors ? Sounds like part of the job. Or do you have a link showing otherwise? Sounds like a mess.


Nope wasn't media relations.


----------



## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

HDRider said:


> What is a First Nation Relations Advisor?


Sounds like a liaison of sorts:

This is a "Senior" advisor:
https://www.ipac.ca/iPAC_EN/Jobs/49703.aspx
"The position examines applications, including controversial proposals of high economic value, to determine impact on First Nations’ Treaty rights and Aboriginal rights, and carries out consultation according to consultation policy and ratified agreements to address First Nation concerns, while minimizing negative impacts on provincial revenues. This work includes facilitating meetings and correspondence, building relationships with regional First Nations, resolving conflicts on a range of complex issues, advising ministry and industry on consultation requirements and providing recommendations to statutory decision makers on how these projects and initiatives should proceed with respect to First Nation’s rights and interests."


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## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

It's quite odd how some will take random quotes from different members and decide it makes sense... What ever floats one's boat. LOL


----------



## keenataz (Feb 17, 2009)

no really said:


> Well it was a post that deserved the likes it received.


It seems to have disappeared.


----------



## keenataz (Feb 17, 2009)

wr said:


> You have your status card?


None of your business, is it?


----------



## keenataz (Feb 17, 2009)

painterswife said:


> Would having your status card make any difference in someones knowledge about an event?


I have no idea. I would think being on scene may convey I have some knowledge of events.


----------



## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

Irish Pixie said:


> It's quite odd how some will take random quotes from different members and decide it makes sense..


It did if you stick to the context and the words posted.


----------



## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

Bearfootfarm said:


> It did if you stick to the context and the words posted.


I'm sure you think so...


----------



## wr (Aug 10, 2003)

painterswife said:


> Would having your status card make any difference in someones knowledge about an event?


I thought I'd made my point quite clear. I believe I spoke to how I, as a native, was looked upon differently by people who saw only the native faces as the cause of the blockades, people losing their jobs, companies losing money, etc. Many felt those delayed trains contributed to food shortages when the pandemic hit as well. 

I also know what was behind the events but I wasn't talking about the events, I was talking speaking to another member who'd also spoken of how a African American was being treated differently after the riots.


----------



## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

keenataz said:


> It seems to have disappeared.


You aren't looking in the right place.


----------



## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

Seemed to me you did not just post that but went at another poster as if you only had special info they could not have.


----------



## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

painterswife said:


> Seemed to me you did not just post that but went at another poster as if you only had special info they could not have.


So that's what you got from reading one simple question?



> wr said: ↑
> You have your status card?


----------



## keenataz (Feb 17, 2009)

wr said:


> I thought I'd made my point quite clear. I believe I spoke to how I, as a native, was looked upon differently by people who saw only the native faces as the cause of the blockades, people losing their jobs, companies losing money, etc. Many felt those delayed trains contributed to food shortages when the pandemic hit as well.
> 
> I also know what was behind the events but I wasn't talking about the events, I was talking speaking to another member who'd also spoken of how a African American was being treated differently after the riots.


I’m just curious how much food travels by train. That rail line which I live by, is mostly coal heading west and Chinese junk heading east.


----------



## Alice In TX/MO (May 10, 2002)

In 2017, U.S. Class I railroads moved 1.6 million carloads of food products, linking production regions and major consumption markets – both in the U.S. and globally.

Shipping and logistics companies maintain the cold chain across long distances for perishable products thanks to temperature-controlled refrigerated boxcars. Canned and dry goods may travel by boxcar or in intermodal containers or trailers.

https://www.up.com/customers/track-record/tr190125_rail_supports_food_prod


----------



## keenataz (Feb 17, 2009)

Alice In TX/MO said:


> In 2017, U.S. Class I railroads moved 1.6 million carloads of food products, linking production regions and major consumption markets – both in the U.S. and globally.
> 
> Shipping and logistics companies maintain the cold chain across long distances for perishable products thanks to temperature-controlled refrigerated boxcars. Canned and dry goods may travel by boxcar or in intermodal containers or trailers.
> 
> https://www.up.com/customers/track-record/tr190125_rail_supports_food_prod


I am talking about a specific rail line that runs from the port of Prince Rupert. It hauls mainly coal one way and Chinese imports the other.
It does occasionally haul grain, but I don’t know the end point. But guessing China.

And according to your second article the main hauling is grain and fertilizer. Which are important. But that would not interrupt a food supply in January as the original poster noted.


----------



## Alice In TX/MO (May 10, 2002)

1. What rail line serves the poster who mentioned the food supply issue?

2. How do you know what is in all the rail cars? (Other than coal, obviously)

3. Maybe you overlooked 65,000 carloads of fresh fruits and vegetables, 235,000 carloads of beverages and extracts, 152,000 carloads of canned and prepared foods, 74,000 carloads of meat and poultry products, 454,000 carloads of other miscellaneous food products.

4. I am going to assume that she knows what she is talking about.


----------



## wr (Aug 10, 2003)

keenataz said:


> I’m just curious how much food travels by train. That rail line which I live by, is mostly coal heading west and Chinese junk heading east.


The blockades were a bit broader than BC and actually spanned Canada, shutting down rail lines straight across. 

Toilet paper was one mentioned, Maple Leaf meats lost quite a bit of inventory, Quebec was unhappy about running perilously low on propane as well as being unable to get product to retail outlets, farmers were unable to get product to port and because the ports were backed up, grain prices dropped hard. I could continue but you proved the point I was making. 

This thread was started because the descendants of the Aunt Jemima brand ambassadors are unhappy that the product is being changed. 

Changing or not changing the packaging on syrup or a bag of rise is not going to resolve racism, virtue signalling is not going to resolve racism and people telling other minorities what issues matter will not change racisim and fools causing damage, mayhem and destruction only harms the image of minorities.


----------



## keenataz (Feb 17, 2009)

Alice In TX/MO said:


> 1. What rail line serves the poster who mentioned the food supply issue?
> 
> 2. How do you know what is in all the rail cars? (Other than coal, obviously)
> 
> ...


No the main blockade was in North BC. That railway does not transport food. You ask how I know. Because going west are coal cars and going East their are sea containers from China. Again how do I know? I sit at a railway crossing a couple times a week and watch them. 
Your statistics are from the US not Canada.


----------



## keenataz (Feb 17, 2009)

wr said:


> The blockades were a bit broader than BC and actually spanned Canada, shutting down rail lines straight across.
> 
> Toilet paper was one mentioned, Maple Leaf meats lost quite a bit of inventory, Quebec was unhappy about running perilously low on propane as well as being unable to get product to retail outlets, farmers were unable to get product to port and because the ports were backed up, grain prices dropped hard. I could continue but you proved the point I was making.
> 
> ...


----------



## GTX63 (Dec 13, 2016)

Changing the name of your breakfast cereal or jerking movies out of circulation isn't doing the right thing. People are so naive.
It is just fear of the mobs, fear of the fascism and the threats and loss of income.
If these companies wanted to be noble in their own minds without exposing their virtue signaling, they would have done something generations ago, before anyone was watching.


----------



## keenataz (Feb 17, 2009)

GTX63 said:


> Changing the name of your breakfast cereal or jerking movies out of circulation isn't doing the right thing. People are so naive.
> It is just fear of the mobs, fear of the fascism and the threats and loss of income.
> If these companies wanted to be noble in their own minds without exposing their virtue signaling, they would have done something generations ago, before anyone was watching.


It doesn’t hurt except for people like you who seem upset.


----------



## GTX63 (Dec 13, 2016)

Nope. Life keeps me busy enough to waste anger on social stupidy.
Anytime people are forced to do things against their own will or interest it is a bad thing.
You may not agree, but you don't have to and I won't make you.


----------



## wr (Aug 10, 2003)

Alice In TX/MO said:


> 1. What rail line serves the poster who mentioned the food supply issue?
> 
> 2. How do you know what is in all the rail cars? (Other than coal, obviously)
> 
> ...


I really didn't intend for a heated debate on what rail cars handle but there are ports on either end and many points in the middle which were blocked and if rail transport were irrelevant, there would have been no news. 

My point was simply that when the railways were shut down as well as the west coast port, for blockades across the country, followed by food and TP shortages, heads turn and fingers pointed. 

It doesn't matter if the truth is different, the seed is planted. Keenataz is correct in stating that it wasn't totally natives that created the blockades but it was people speaking on behalf of natives, which was my original point. 

Natives lost credibility because people used their cause to further agendas and inconvenience others and cause decent hardworking people to lose their jobs. Blacks lost credibility because people used their cause to further agendas by burning, looting and harming their own people.


----------



## GTX63 (Dec 13, 2016)

wr said:


> Natives lost credibility because people used their cause to further agendas and inconvenience others and cause decent hardworking people to lose their jobs. Blacks lost credibility because people used their cause to further agendas by burning, looting and harming their own people.


That is a point that deserves repeating thruout this time period we are in.

States and Federal budgets are put together with garbage pork and excess programs thrown in, whether it creates more debt or not, which it always does.
It happens perpetually with any bill or budget.
It is the same principle with social issues. Every parasitic opportunist will take a cause, either good or bad, and railroad it into something else, diluting the message and further driving a wedge. Then the fan clubs will sit on the sidelines and goad the movement into a disaster, such as this.
No one with a brain will look back on this period as anything positive. It carries zero comparables to the revolution and the ugly will not be erased, no matter how hard fascism and it's players try.
No one wins. Blacks are being used and pimped for whatever purpose suits their leaders. Shameful.


----------



## wr (Aug 10, 2003)

keenataz said:


> It doesn’t hurt except for people like you who seem upset.


What about the two families that have come forward indicating that they are upset. Do their opinions not matter either or are they just collateral damage? 

Jimmy Kimmel has come under fire and apologized for a skit he did years ago on Chris Rock and it's starting to look like he's sustained serious profession damage. 

Chris Rock and several other black entertainers have come forward indicating that they did not feel he performed in blackface, they felt it was acceptable, funny, no harm was done to their community and none seem to find him bigoted in any way. 

Should he be ruined professionally?


----------



## mreynolds (Jan 1, 2015)

Prison is the next option.


----------



## keenataz (Feb 17, 2009)

wr said:


> What about the two families that have come forward indicating that they are upset. Do their opinions not matter either or are they just collateral damage?
> 
> Jimmy Kimmel has come under fire and apologized for a skit he did years ago on Chris Rock and it's starting to look like he's sustained serious profession damage.
> 
> ...


What the heck does that have to do with Aunt Jemima?


----------



## GTX63 (Dec 13, 2016)

After 8 pages and your concerned about the OP, lol?
Good serve.


----------



## Alice In TX/MO (May 10, 2002)

Thread drift is like the tides. You can’t stop ‘em.


----------



## homesteadforty (Dec 4, 2007)

keenataz said:


> It doesn’t hurt except for people like you who seem upset.


Ohhh, but it does. One of the first things in the beginnings of an insurgency/insurrection is to destroy cultural norms, whether they are good, bad, or indifferent... take away what was there so you can replace it with what you want.

Remember the thousands of years old Buddhist statues blown up by the Taliban? Those statues had little tangible meaning to the local population... Afghanistan had been Muslim since the 7th century. They then went on to destroy other cultural sites and icons. What did Mao do during the early stages of the Communist overthrow of China... "Red Guards destroyed historical relics as well as artifacts, and ransacked cultural and religious sites." What did the Bolsheviks due during the Russian Revolution? They destroyed cultural sites, historic relics and artifacts.

See any parallels??? I can list dozens more... need I go on?

The play book then goes on to destroy or curtail law enforcement. Next, start occupying local government/public functions. They've already got a good start on winning the hearts and minds of the young and impressionable... they've had control of the majority of school systems for years.

This has little to do with race anymore... make the people think you're fighting on their behalf and use them to your advantage... at least until you no longer need them. Destroy what was so you can rebuild what you want on top of the ruins.


----------



## keenataz (Feb 17, 2009)

homesteadforty said:


> Ohhh, but it does. One of the first things in the beginnings of an insurgency/insurrection is to destroy cultural norms, whether they are good, bad, or indifferent... take away what was there so you can replace it with what you want.
> 
> Remember the thousands of years old Buddhist statues blown up by the Taliban? Those statues had little tangible meaning to the local population... Afghanistan had been Muslim since the 7th century. They then went on to destroy other cultural sites and icons. What did Mao do during the early stages of the Communist overthrow of China... "Red Guards destroyed historical relics as well as artifacts, and ransacked cultural and religious sites." What did the Bolsheviks due during the Russian Revolution? They destroyed cultural sites, historic relics and artifacts.
> 
> ...


Well somehow Aunt Jemima does not equate to Buddhist statues.


----------



## Redlands Okie (Nov 28, 2017)

keenataz said:


> Well somehow Aunt Jemima does not equate to Buddhist statues.


Look closer and perhaps behind the scenes.


----------



## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

keenataz said:


> Well somehow Aunt Jemima does not equate to Buddhist statues.


The same principles are involved.
It's still about "control" and deceit.


----------



## keenataz (Feb 17, 2009)

Redlands Okie said:


> Look closer and perhaps behind the scenes.


Nope Aunt Jemima was a trademark to sell stuff. The world won’t miss her. 
The Buddhist statues were historic treasures. A lot of people, not just Buddhist miss them.


----------



## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

keenataz said:


> The Buddhist statues were historic treasures.


Just like the Confederate monuments and other statues being destroyed for no good reason.


----------



## wr (Aug 10, 2003)

keenataz said:


> What the heck does that have to do with Aunt Jemima?



Virtue signalling and some deciding, once again how somebody must feel, how offended the need to feel and what level of collateral damage seems reasonable. 

You’re so busy trying to over think my questions that you haven’t answered on directly yet. 

Why does the African Americans who are not happy with the crazy virtue signalling not being heard?


----------



## wr (Aug 10, 2003)

mreynolds said:


> Prison is the next option.


For Jimmy Fallon or Aunt Jemima?


----------



## GTX63 (Dec 13, 2016)

Or Jimmy Kimmel.


----------



## Redlands Okie (Nov 28, 2017)

keenataz said:


> Nope Aunt Jemima was a trademark to sell stuff. The world won’t miss her.
> The Buddhist statues were historic treasures. A lot of people, not just Buddhist miss them.


The Buddhist statues are trademarks to sell stuff also.


----------



## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

wr said:


> I really didn't intend for a heated debate on what rail cars handle but there are ports on either end and many points in the middle which were blocked and if rail transport were irrelevant, there would have been no news.
> 
> My point was simply that when the railways were shut down as well as the west coast port, for blockades across the country, followed by food and TP shortages, heads turn and fingers pointed.
> 
> ...


I just don't get this. You are a member of a minority group and here and in other threads and posts you are judging an entire group by the actions of a few. You have posted several times that "change comes when we clean up our social problems, get rid of gangs, drug abuse, alcoholism and unemployment and that sure doesn't come from tearing down cities, blocking trains, killing our own people, " You tell us that those minorities need to fix what is happening in their groups themselves. It seems like you are yourself telling them that the people in those minorities need to fix the bad in those minorities before they can expect racism to go away for the people who don't do bad.

Do you see how those statements are bigoted? I don't think you mean them to be but they are. Are you not doing to your own minority what should not happen in the first place to any individual? You know it is not right if someone looks at you sideways because another of your minority was part of a blockade.

I don't feel the need to check the behavior of just white people or women so I will not be tarred with their misdeeds.


----------



## mreynolds (Jan 1, 2015)

wr said:


> For Jimmy Fallon or Aunt Jemima?


Jimmy of course.


----------



## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

Alice In TX/MO said:


> Thread drift is like the tides. You can’t stop ‘em.


Surfs up


----------



## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

homesteadforty said:


> Ohhh, but it does. One of the first things in the beginnings of an insurgency/insurrection is to destroy cultural norms, whether they are good, bad, or indifferent... take away what was there so you can replace it with what you want.
> 
> Remember the thousands of years old Buddhist statues blown up by the Taliban? Those statues had little tangible meaning to the local population... Afghanistan had been Muslim since the 7th century. They then went on to destroy other cultural sites and icons. What did Mao do during the early stages of the Communist overthrow of China... "Red Guards destroyed historical relics as well as artifacts, and ransacked cultural and religious sites." What did the Bolsheviks due during the Russian Revolution? They destroyed cultural sites, historic relics and artifacts.
> 
> ...


You are 1001% correct. I appreciate you taking the time to say all that. Many, or most get it. It was worth putting it down for all to see. 

But note - Bureaucrats are infamous for their inability to reason, think independently or come to sound conclusions based on putting the puzzle pieces together. They just take one thing onto their desk (mind) and push it to the next desk (mind), adding no value along the way.


----------



## no really (Aug 7, 2013)

painterswife said:


> I just don't get this. You are a member of a minority group and here and in other threads and posts you are judging an entire group by the actions of a few. You have posted several times that "change comes when we clean up our social problems, get rid of gangs, drug abuse, alcoholism and unemployment and that sure doesn't come from tearing down cities, blocking trains, killing our own people, " You tell us that those minorities need to fix what is happening in their groups themselves. It seems like you are yourself telling them that the people in those minorities need to fix the bad in those minorities before they can expect racism to go away for the people who don't do bad.
> 
> Do you see how those statements are bigoted? I don't think you mean them to be but they are. Are you not doing to your own minority what should not happen in the first place to any individual? You know it is not right if someone looks at you sideways because another of your minority was part of a blockade.
> 
> I don't feel the need to check the behavior of just white people or women so I will not be tarred with their misdeeds.


I'm a minority and feel the same way. The problems in my culture need to be fixed from the inside, otherwise they will continue to grow.


----------



## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

no really said:


> I'm a minority and feel the same way. The problems in my culture need to be fixed from the inside, otherwise they will continue to grow.


Culture is not the same as skin color. Many different cultures within a skin color.

Even within a culture, one person should not be tarnished with the sins of another.


----------



## GTX63 (Dec 13, 2016)

You are lecturing a hispanic on their culture and you still don't understand why people don't want you speaking for them?


----------



## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

GTX63 said:


> You are lecturing a hispanic on their culture and you still don't understand why people don't want you speaking for them?


I did not lecture her on her culture. I pointed out we are talking about skin color and racism not culture.


----------



## GTX63 (Dec 13, 2016)

no really said:


> I'm a minority and feel the same way. The problems in my culture need to be fixed from the inside, otherwise they will continue to grow.


Speaking on behalf of Painter's Wife, I'd like to apologize for any offense or error in her posts. 
She sometimes says things that are out of line and inappropriate, yet not in a manner meant to intentionally inflame or insult you, and for that I hope you will understand.


----------



## no really (Aug 7, 2013)

GTX63 said:


> Speaking on behalf of Painter's Wife, I'd like to apologize for any offense or error in her posts.
> She sometimes says things that are out of line and inappropriate, yet not in a manner meant to intentionally inflame or insult you, and for that I hope you will understand.


Thanks and your comment is so true. It does get a bit tedious the instructions on how I should view myself and my background. And yes it is inappropriate and insulting.


----------



## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

GTX63 said:


> Speaking on behalf of Painter's Wife, I'd like to apologize for any offense or error in her posts.
> She sometimes says things that are out of line and inappropriate, yet not in a manner meant to intentionally inflame or insult you, and for that I hope you will understand.


How is that working out for you? I always speak for myself and my own opinion. It may support others but it is still one voice among many. Just as any minority person can only speak for themselves and not the others in that minority. They can only support or not support the voices of others in the same minorities.


----------



## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

no really said:


> Thanks and your comment is so true. It does get a bit tedious the instructions on how I should view myself and my background. And yes it is inappropriate and insulting.


I stated my opinion. I did not tell you what yours was. Nice try though.


----------



## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

GTX63 said:


> Speaking on behalf of Painter's Wife, I'd like to apologize for any offense or error in her posts.
> She sometimes says things that are out of line and inappropriate, yet not in a manner meant to intentionally inflame or insult you, and for that I hope you will understand.


She fell for it


----------



## no really (Aug 7, 2013)

painterswife said:


> I stated my opinion. I did not tell you what yours was. Nice try though.


 And I'll consider your comments for what they are worth.


----------



## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

I know, only minorities can be part of the discussion. The rest of the world is irrelevant.


----------



## no really (Aug 7, 2013)

painterswife said:


> I know, only minorities can be part of the discussion. The rest of the world is irrelevant.


Like I said I'll consider your comments for what they are worth.


----------



## Farmerga (May 6, 2010)

I watched a Woke video that was supposed to show suburban white kids just how privlidged they were and why they should be ashamed by that. They had a group of kids of several different races and they asked a series of questions, the first of which was "Are your parents still married to each other?" Most of the white kids said yes, most of the minority kids said no. They then went on to ask several other questions where the answers were largely dependent on the answer to the first one. Of course, most of the kids from intact homes usually answered in the affirmative. The questioner seemed oblivious that it was how the first question was answered tended to predict how the later questions were answered more often than the color of the kids skin.

So, the person trying to tell these white kids why they should feel guilty for their advantages unknowingly illustrated that it is more often family life, and not skin color that was to blame for advantages. Last time I looked ****** wasn't keeping minorities from getting or remaining married, so, yes, the problems aren't racial, but, cultural.


----------



## GTX63 (Dec 13, 2016)

******


Farmerga said:


> . Last time I looked ****** wasn't keeping minorities from getting or remaining married, so, yes, the problems aren't racial, but, cultural.


No, but the government does a pretty good job at it, and they are good at just about nothing else.
It's almost like they and a few other groups prefer it that way.


----------



## Farmerga (May 6, 2010)

GTX63 said:


> ******
> 
> 
> No, but the government does a pretty good job at it, and they are good at just about nothing else.
> It's almost like they and a few other groups prefer it that way.


100% agree.


----------



## SLADE (Feb 20, 2004)

Are we still throwing minority children into cages?


----------



## no really (Aug 7, 2013)

SRSLADE said:


> Are we still throwing minority children into cages?


No that president is out of office now.


----------



## SLADE (Feb 20, 2004)

Are minority families still being torn apart?


----------



## no really (Aug 7, 2013)

SRSLADE said:


> Are minority families still being torn apart?


Didn't like the answer to the previous question?


----------



## SLADE (Feb 20, 2004)

Are we still trying to throw all minority people out of the country?


----------



## no really (Aug 7, 2013)

SRSLADE said:


> Are we still trying to throw all minority people out of the country?


Are you a bot? Check the box to signal no.


----------



## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

painterswife said:


> It seems like you are yourself telling them that the people in those *minorities need to fix the bad in those minorities* before they can expect racism to go away for the people who don't do bad.


The truth isn't "bigoted".


----------



## SLADE (Feb 20, 2004)

Are we still trying to stop foreign people from coming into the country?
Do we still think those country's will buy from us?


----------



## GTX63 (Dec 13, 2016)

White families are being persecuted, black families being divided, and on and on.
Pick your outrage.


----------



## GTX63 (Dec 13, 2016)

SRSLADE said:


> Are we still trying to stop foreign people from coming into the country?
> Do we still think those country's will buy from us?


I sure hope so.
I don't sell overseas. What do you have?


----------



## SLADE (Feb 20, 2004)

I heard China don't want our chicken.
It may be tainted with covid.


----------



## GTX63 (Dec 13, 2016)

My dogs love tainted chicken.
More winning!


----------



## mreynolds (Jan 1, 2015)

SRSLADE said:


> I heard China don't want our chicken.
> It may be tainted with covid.


They still are buying though. The Russians are too. Twice a week from our plant here in town. The other 3 days are ours.


----------



## SLADE (Feb 20, 2004)

Isn't Texas a hot bed for covid?


----------



## mreynolds (Jan 1, 2015)

SRSLADE said:


> Isn't Texas a hot bed for covid?


Everywhere is a hotbed for covid.


----------



## SLADE (Feb 20, 2004)

mreynolds said:


> Everywhere is a hotbed for covid.


I don't wish it on anyone. It's scary as hell and nasty.


----------



## wr (Aug 10, 2003)

painterswife said:


> I just don't get this. You are a member of a minority group and here and in other threads and posts you are judging an entire group by the actions of a few. You have posted several times that "change comes when we clean up our social problems, get rid of gangs, drug abuse, alcoholism and unemployment and that sure doesn't come from tearing down cities, blocking trains, killing our own people, " You tell us that those minorities need to fix what is happening in their groups themselves. It seems like you are yourself telling them that the people in those minorities need to fix the bad in those minorities before they can expect racism to go away for the people who don't do bad.
> 
> Do you see how those statements are bigoted? I don't think you mean them to be but they are. Are you not doing to your own minority what should not happen in the first place to any individual? You know it is not right if someone looks at you sideways because another of your minority was part of a blockade.
> 
> I don't feel the need to check the behavior of just white people or women so I will not be tarred with their misdeeds.


I'm afraid you don't get it and missed my entire point but I don't thnk you have any intention of hearing what I've said and why I said it.

You chose to interpret my comments as bigoted but I offered up a suggestion on how my people are trying to move ahead and remove those obstacles. You must not have heard of the Indian Posse, they're a pretty tough gang by anybody's standards and they're also systematically killing natives either by dealing drugs or killing for drug debt. Drugs, alcoholism, poverty and sexual assault are a very real things to many native families and to suggest I should clam up and ignore them is counter productive. 

We are working to counter those problems by helping people educate, mentoring programs for young people, the military has a mentoring program, people are becoming brave enough to speak out and banish gang members and dealers from the reserve and people can actually build or buy their own houses on rez, which frees up band housing for poorer families that need it. Our band has worked to bring in industry that is training people and putting more of them to work, while providing daycare programs. We have an off site university campus on reserve, with a daycare program, we have on reserve apprenticeship programs and life skills training programs so families can learn things like household budgets and meal plans (which is mandatory after 2 emergency welfare relief payments). 

People can march, protest, riot and make all the noise they want but they aren't saving young people from dying of drug overdoses, they aren't preventing alcoholism, protecting young women sexual abuse or ending up in the sex trade and the only way out of poverty is education and employment programs. 

Why is that bigoted?


----------



## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

SRSLADE said:


> Are *we* still trying to throw all minority people out of the country?


"We"?


----------



## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

wr said:


> I'm afraid you don't get it and missed my entire point but I don't thnk you have any intention of hearing what I've said and why I said it.
> 
> You chose to interpret my comments as bigoted but I offered up a suggestion on how my people are trying to move ahead and remove those obstacles. You must not have heard of the Indian Posse, they're a pretty tough gang by anybody's standards and they're also systematically killing natives either by dealing drugs or killing for drug debt. Drugs, alcoholism, poverty and sexual assault are a very real things to many native families and to suggest I should clam up and ignore them is counter productive.
> 
> ...


I was discussing how you present things. You present that the behavior of certain minorities has to be fixed before racism from the outside can be dealt with or that is the way to deal with outside racism. That is bigoted view. They have nothing to do with each other. It is based on the idea that those that are not causing problems are not worthy of no racism until they fix others of their own color.

Should I tell my minority nieces and nephews that sorry you are not worthy of a world without racism because some Chinese gangs are acting badly? No, not going to happen. They deserve not to face racism because they are humans and their skin color does not define them.

I will add, no one even if they are behaving badly deserves racism.


----------



## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

painterswife said:


> Even within a culture, one person should not be tarnished with the sins of another.


No one should be rewarded for them either.


----------



## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

painterswife said:


> I pointed out *we are talking about* skin color and racism *not culture*.


You're confused.



painterswife said:


> *I was discussing* how you present things


I thought we were talking about "skin color and racism".



painterswife said:


> Should I tell my minority nieces and nephews that sorry you are not worthy of a world without racism because some Chinese gangs are acting badly?


You shouldn't tell them anything at all.


----------



## no really (Aug 7, 2013)

wr said:


> I'm afraid you don't get it and missed my entire point but I don't thnk you have any intention of hearing what I've said and why I said it.
> 
> You chose to interpret my comments as bigoted but I offered up a suggestion on how my people are trying to move ahead and remove those obstacles. You must not have heard of the Indian Posse, they're a pretty tough gang by anybody's standards and they're also systematically killing natives either by dealing drugs or killing for drug debt. Drugs, alcoholism, poverty and sexual assault are a very real things to many native families and to suggest I should clam up and ignore them is counter productive.
> 
> ...


That is great, doing the work that needs to be done. It is incredible what can be done with dedicated people and perseverance.


----------



## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

SRSLADE said:


> Are we still trying to stop foreign people from coming into the country?
> Do we still think those country's will buy from us?


Yes
Yes


----------



## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

no really said:


> Are you a bot?


Bots show signs of intelligence, even though it's artificial.


----------



## no really (Aug 7, 2013)

Bearfootfarm said:


> Bots show signs of intelligence, even though it's artificial.


----------



## wr (Aug 10, 2003)

mreynolds said:


> Everywhere is a hotbed for covid.


I read somewhere that protests and riots are covid exempt.


----------



## mreynolds (Jan 1, 2015)

wr said:


> I read somewhere that protests and riots are covid exempt.


Yeah but you have to get a permit first. Then you are good to go.


----------



## wr (Aug 10, 2003)

painterswife said:


> I was discussing how you present things. You present that the behavior of certain minorities has to be fixed before racism from the outside can be dealt with or that is the way to deal with outside racism. That is bigoted view. They have nothing to do with each other. It is based on the idea that those that are not causing problems are not worthy of no racism until they fix others of their own color.
> 
> Should I tell my minority nieces and nephews that sorry you are not worthy of a world without racism because some Chinese gangs are acting badly? No, not going to happen. They deserve not to face racism because they are humans and their skin color does not define them.
> 
> I will add, no one even if they are behaving badly deserves racism.


You spend a lot of time diminishing my message because it doesn't fit your narrative. I will try once more because I'm a patient person but also getting very tired of being insulted. 

I never mentioned Chinese people and have nothing to offer regarding Chinese people. My discussion was focused around my own people and my own situation. 

Going forward, it's likely best if I step back and let you and a couple other members continue to speak on behalf of myself, my people and all other minorities since you seem to have greater awareness but you just proved the point I've been trying to make for days. 

Minorities still need somebody on the outside to tell telling them what to do, which I feel is as bigoted as you can get.


----------



## homesteadforty (Dec 4, 2007)

keenataz said:


> Well somehow Aunt Jemima does not equate to Buddhist statues.


You seem to be thinking too way narrowly. It's not about Aunt Jemima or the Buddhist statues, it's about destroying what is there... whatever it is... anything that anyone can use to remind them of the "evil" past. It's about destroying anything that makes a people into a culture... big or small, good, bad, or ugly. When you do that you can control the people, there is no cohesive strength, they're not one unit that can fight back, they are individuals that must submit.


----------



## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

Racism is not fixed by the minority having to fix themselves. They are not the problem. The racist behavior is what needs to be fixed. In fact if you really lay it out according to your stance them I have every right to be part of the solution because it is my white race that is exhibiting most of the racist behavior.

Or just maybe I am an individual and have right to opinion just like you do. My opinion does not diminish yours.


----------



## wr (Aug 10, 2003)

painterswife said:


> Racism is not fixed by the minority having to fix themselves. They are not the problem. The racist behavior is what needs to be fixed. In fact if you really lay it out according to your stance them I have every right to be part of the solution because it is my white race that is exhibiting most of the racist behavior.
> 
> Or just maybe I am an individual and have right to opinion just like you do. My opinion does not diminish yours.


Like I said, you've spent so much time insulting my opinon that I'll bow out and let you control the narrative.


----------



## Redlands Okie (Nov 28, 2017)

SRSLADE said:


> Are we still throwing minority children into cages?


You should be asking the parents of those kids. After all it is a result of the parents actions.


----------



## Redlands Okie (Nov 28, 2017)

SRSLADE said:


> Are we still trying to throw all minority people out of the country?


Only those here illegally.


----------



## Redlands Okie (Nov 28, 2017)

SRSLADE said:


> I heard China don't want our chicken.
> It may be tainted with covid.


Keep in mind China owns most of the chickens and the facilities they are raised and and processed in.


----------



## Redlands Okie (Nov 28, 2017)

painterswife said:


> Racism is not fixed by the minority having to fix themselves. They are not the problem. The racist behavior is what needs to be fixed. In fact if you really lay it out according to your stance them I have every right to be part of the solution because it is my white race that is exhibiting most of the racist behavior.
> 
> Or just maybe I am an individual and have right to opinion just like you do. My opinion does not diminish yours.


Racism has been part of humanity forever. Likely to continue. Until the children can be raised with no undue influence for a few generations things are not likely to change. Laws are not a great solution. Meanwhile with some effort people can be taught or forced to politely interact and or cover up their racism. Real progress starts at home then the extended family. After that’s fixed perhaps it can be expanded into the local neighborhood, city, county, state. Best wishes.


----------



## GTX63 (Dec 13, 2016)

To say racism is a white issue would be out of ignorance and a good measure of why this latest disaster won't fix it, won't be a start to fixing it or even maintaining the status quo. Society is just turning nose down and faster when you force it.
Whites don't have a corner on racism.
You would have to have lost your cable and wi fi to not understand what goes on in countries all over the world and every day.
Claiming that one race is more "racist" than another is proof enough to never be allowed to hold office.


----------



## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

As I have posted before. All races have racism. I was making a point with regard to the stance that it needed to be worked on within the minority and how they believe it should be handled. I think it is a human problem and all humans need to work on it.


----------



## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

painterswife said:


> As I have posted before. All races have racism. I was making a point with regard to the stance that it needed to be worked on within the minority and how they believe it should be handled. I think it is a human problem and all humans need to work on it.


I wish you could take a step back and see the comedy of your posts.


----------



## Wanda (Dec 19, 2002)

wr said:


> Like I said, you've spent so much time insulting my opinon that I'll bow out and let you control the narrative.



Are we both reading the same messages ? Sometimes when we are passionate about a subject, we reply to what we ''think'' was written.


----------



## wr (Aug 10, 2003)

Wanda said:


> Are we both reading the same messages ? Sometimes when we are passionate about a subject, we reply to what we ''think'' was written.


I would suggest the problem is double sided but when someone refuses to hear and resorts to using terms like bigot, I'm smart enough to fold my cards and walk away.


----------



## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

painterswife said:


> As I have posted before. All races have racism. I was making a point with regard to the stance that it needed to be worked on within the minority and how they believe it should be handled. I think it is a human problem and all humans need to work on it.


----------



## shawnlee (Apr 13, 2010)

painterswife said:


> Changing a name does not change history. LOL.


 LOL,....actually it does,...in a way, its the end result anyway.

I could type endless sentences and explain, but that`s just a waste of time.

But I will leave a observation,......in my brief time in this world I have noticed preconceived notions are very detrimental to understanding.


----------



## shawnlee (Apr 13, 2010)

mreynolds said:


> Yeah but you have to get a permit first. Then you are good to go.


 I thought the mayors blessing was enough to heal........or cure or prevent or whatever they think.



painterswife said:


> Racism is not fixed by the minority having to fix themselves. They are not the problem. The racist behavior is what needs to be fixed. In fact if you really lay it out according to your stance them I have every right to be part of the solution because it is my white race that is exhibiting most of the racist behavior.
> 
> Or just maybe I am an individual and have right to opinion just like you do. My opinion does not diminish yours.


 Incorrectness and diminish are NOT tied together, they are independent.



HDRider said:


> I wish you could take a step back and see the comedy of your posts.


 Its pretty easy once you acknowledge the fact that people who believe space alien lizard people run the planet,...they function just fine, have jobs, raise families, drive on the roads and vote. 

While scary, it just goes to show what we think has very little influence on what is.....we are not the shapers and controllers of societal standards.

Given pretty much everything I belch out of my cake hole over my lifetime will change nothing and be meaningless to society, its ok to give it meaning by finding humor in it.


When the ships journey is thru and we are at the end, it will not be the few truths we understood, it will be the happy times and the sad times we remember, so I choose to laugh in the face of danger and fear and make a lifetime of happy memories............yes, I am the guy in the desert at 120 degrees and borderline on deaths door with dehydrations that makes the jokes about it being nice out today.

Since it does not matter if I think it is the end of the world with alien space lizards or a nice day, I choose to make it a nice day joke and at least share in some laughter with my fellow humans, because when the doors about to close that`s what I will remember and rejoice in......as I reflect on the short time here, not the fleeting moments of self imposed uncomfort......

It will be a memory of laughing with friends as we almost died of dehydration or it will be laughing with friends as I do die of dehydration.......either way I will live or die, no matter what state of mind I choose, so I choose laughter.


I could let society dictate my state of mind or I can choose it myself,.......much like many of the self imposed woes many face today......as we see in the current conversations of the day,...every thing is a choice, I can choose to be offended, angered, or entertained. I can let it break me or make me,.....but the first step is understanding its a choice and I can make my own choices or let society dictate them.......making everything my choice or my fault.

Understanding that one simple thing makes it easy to understand the gravity and importance of making choices........because just changing a simple thought from I am a victim of society, to I am a victim of my own choices can make all the difference.


......."........And there`s your dinner !,.." eat or go hungry, its peoples own choice.


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## Pamelina (Mar 23, 2020)

Bearfootfarm said:


> It will be if they change the name.
> You can pretend it won't.
> 
> ROFLMAO.
> ...





Bearfootfarm said:


> It will be if they change the name.
> You can pretend it won't.
> 
> 
> ...


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## Hiro (Feb 14, 2016)

painterswife said:


> Racism is not fixed by the minority having to fix themselves. They are not the problem. The racist behavior is what needs to be fixed. In fact if you really lay it out according to your stance them I have every right to be part of the solution because it is my *white race that is exhibiting most of the racist behavior.*
> 
> Or just maybe I am an individual and have right to opinion just like you do. My opinion does not diminish yours.


So, not only do you explain how minorities should react or should feel, but you also are qualified to make such claims that are without any merit. The only SCOTUS approved institutional racism in the US is against asian and white males. Despite that or because of it, depending on your point of view, it does not seem to hold very many back. Why do you think that is?


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## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

Wanda said:


> Are we both reading the same messages ? Sometimes when we are passionate about a subject, we reply to what we ''think'' was written.


Exactly. Some opinions and terms are fine and dandy (one simply needs to read threads for the proof) , until someone _decides_ to take them personally. Doesn't matter if they were meant that way or not.

My grandson has some epic meltdowns when something doesn't go the way he thinks it should, he screams that it's not fair or no fun, sometimes stomping his feet, and goes to sit by himself. He will eventually come out after he thinks about what he did, and usually apologizes for his actions. He's almost 7.


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## Redlands Okie (Nov 28, 2017)

Seems lots of people are taking a picture on a bottle of syrup personally and enforcing their opinions on others. Since many experts seem to think that personalities are set around the ages of 3 to 5 years old these type of actions are not likely to change.


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## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

Redlands Okie said:


> Seems lots of people are taking a picture on a bottle of syrup personally and enforcing their opinions on others.


I don't get the whole "character who can't be creditably established as a real person" upset either. Further, a company can call their product anything they want, change it's name at any time, or even discontinue producing it.


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## Redlands Okie (Nov 28, 2017)

Hopefully they will not have to go to the expense to find the pictures and relabel their products in a few years so they can reuse them after being accused of discrimination by removing the picture.


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## mreynolds (Jan 1, 2015)

Redlands Okie said:


> Hopefully they will not have to go to the expense to find the pictures and relabel their products in a few years so they can reuse them after being accused of discrimination by removing the picture.


THAT is what we will have real soon. 

We are now talking down statues of abolitionist. I would not be surprised to see the MLK signs coming down at this point.


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## wr (Aug 10, 2003)

I agree but I can't see why a character on a bottle would be so upsetting that panic ensues but I also worry about backlash. 

I'm pretty philosophical and also believe it's wise to pick our battles and each one has consequences. 

When crucifixes symbols were targeted, many others felt the consequences. Burkhas, hijabs, turbans, kirpans, medicine bundles and braids are a few examples. Women were kicked off sports teams because they refused to remove head coverings, men and women suddenly found the need to fight hard to wear head covering, turbans and braids on job sites, kirpans have remained a uncomfortable issue, simply because religious symbols were suddenly unacceptable.

We hang our hat on the syrup war and it may find that minorities will see less endorsement jobs.


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## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

There is no panic. There is no battle.

A company decided to change their packaging because the basis for it was a racist character. A business decision.


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## wr (Aug 10, 2003)

painterswife said:


> There is no panic. There is no battle.
> 
> A company decided to change their packaging because the basis for it was a racist character. A business decision.


Time will tell.


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## SLADE (Feb 20, 2004)

Money talks the other walks


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## gleepish (Mar 10, 2003)

LOL I had this whole post written out and accidentally posted the entire thing as a quote from @Irish Pixie and I apologize for that! I deleted it as soon as I realized.. I should have edited it instead because it's ultimately too much to type out again. Maybe I'll come back later and post again--or if you have it on your screen, would you please quote it for me? (with the disclaimer that it is NOT a quote from IP, please!)


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

painterswife said:


> There is *no panic*. There is *no battle*.
> 
> A *company decided* to change their packaging because the basis for it was a racist character. A *business decision*.


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## gleepish (Mar 10, 2003)

Ok here's the thing. It should be ok for a business to market their product however they wish. The truth of it is that they can't. If they could we wouldn't be having a discussion over the marketing campaign of syrup. If they could, a company wouldn't be looking at redesigning a marketing campaign that has been successful for over 100 years.

There is a local BBQ sauce made in St. Louis. Freddie Lee's Ghetto Sauce. If you've ever had St. Louis style BBQ, wondered about St. Louis style BBQ, or just like good BBQ sauce--you gotta check it out. Anyway, Freddie came out with fantastic sauce and started marketing it. A local grocery chain said sure, we'll sell it, but you have to change the name, our clientele would be offended by such a derogatory and racist label. So, depending on if you are shopping in the city or in the county, you would buy either "Freddie Lee's Ghetto Sauce" or Freddie Lee's American Gourmet Sauce". IT'S THE SAME DAMNED SAUCE! 

Funny thing is that the sauce was named out of hope "One day Fred and I had completed a batch of sauce and we took a much needed break. So we went and sat on the front porch to escape the extreme temperatures of the kitchen. It was a warm summer day and Fred looked at me and said honey, one day GOD is going to bless us to get out of the Ghetto. Praise GOD I said, and then it hit me, Ghetto Sauce would be the name."

The one thing I am damned sure of is that there is not another race out there who wants, much less needs, me (a middle aged white woman) to tell them what is or is not racist, what they should find to be racist or what they should be offended by. I'm pretty damned sure they can figure that part out for themselves. But what we have now are people who are truly offended (who may or may not have been offended two months ago), People who aren't offended and people yelling at those people explaining why they should be offended. People who think they should be offended, but aren't but are sneaking their pancake mix, syrup and rice into their trash cans in the dead of the night (so as to not offend their neighbors...) and those who just sit back and watch the freak show that society has become.

The issue is that people have forgotten that they don't have the right NOT to be offended. If you find a products marketing to be racist, then don't buy it, write the company and tell them you are offended, be the social media warrior you were born to be--you do you. But if you don't find that products marketing to be racist then buy it, tell your friends how great it is, increase the companies bottom line and let them know you're find with whatever marketing they chose. 

(The above quote is taken from the About webpage found at https://freddieleesgourmetsauces.com/)


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## Redlands Okie (Nov 28, 2017)

painterswife said:


> There is no panic. There is no battle.
> 
> A company decided to change their packaging because the basis for it was a racist character. A business decision.


Pretty good chance it was a business decision ONLY because the company was afraid of bad PR due to someone twisting the history of the multi generation (North) American Indian designed label.


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## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

gleepish said:


> Ok here's the thing. It should be ok for a business to market their product however they wish. The truth of it is that they can't. If they could we wouldn't be having a discussion over the marketing campaign of syrup. If they could, a company wouldn't be looking at redesigning a marketing campaign that has been successful for over 100 years.
> 
> There is a local BBQ sauce made in St. Louis. Freddie Lee's Ghetto Sauce. If you've ever had St. Louis style BBQ, wondered about St. Louis style BBQ, or just like good BBQ sauce--you gotta check it out. Anyway, Freddie came out with fantastic sauce and started marketing it. A local grocery chain said sure, we'll sell it, but you have to change the name, our clientele would be offended by such a derogatory and racist label. So, depending on if you are shopping in the city or in the county, you would buy either "Freddie Lee's Ghetto Sauce" or Freddie Lee's American Gourmet Sauce". IT'S THE SAME DAMNED SAUCE!
> 
> ...


Freddie didn't have to change the name of his sauce, he did so it would sell better, and it worked very well for Freddie. Correct? I applaud Freddie for making his sauce acceptable to anyone who wants to buy it. Bravo. Bottom line is still it's Freddie's sauce and he can call it anything he'd like.

The companies that have changed the labels/names of products will have done the same thing as Freddie, they will make their product more acceptable so it will sell better. Why applaud Freddie and boo Quaker Oats?

There's my opinion on the subject on this fine Thursday morning.


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## gleepish (Mar 10, 2003)

Irish Pixie said:


> Freddie didn't have to change the name of his sauce, he did so it sell better, and it worked very well for Freddie. Correct? I applaud Freddie for making his sauce acceptable to anyone who wants to buy it. Bravo. Bottom line is still it's Freddie's sauce and he can call it anything he'd like.
> 
> The companies that have changed the labels/names of products will have done the same thing as Freddie, they will make their product more acceptable so it will sell better. Why applaud Freddie and boo Quaker Oats?
> 
> There's my opinion on the subject on this fine Thursday morning.


I'm in no way shape or form applauding one and booing the other. You are missing the point entirely. 

Isn't it a kind of backhanded racism for a grocery store that is owned by an affluent white family and found in primarily white communities to tell a black man living in the ghetto that it's racist to call his sauce 'Ghetto Sauce'?


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## GTX63 (Dec 13, 2016)

Yes, it is racist.
It isn't a business decision. If so it would have been made before the torches were lit.
Businesses had the right to name and market their products as they see fit.
At this current time they do not, so some are being proactive and submitting to the mobs and sjws.


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

GTX63 said:


> submitting to the mobs and sjws


Submitting being the key word


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## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

gleepish said:


> I'm in no way shape or form applauding one and booing the other. You are missing the point entirely.
> 
> Isn't it a kind of backhanded racism for a grocery store that is owned by an affluent white family and found in primarily white communities to tell a black man living in the ghetto that it's racist to call his sauce 'Ghetto Sauce'?


I missed nothing, I added my opinion, and I never said you applauded anyone. 

A company/person who sells a product will do anything to to sell the product, or they won't have a business long. Freddie figured out a way to sell his sauce in all stores, he didn't care if the name was considered "racist" by some, he just wanted to sell more sauce, so he tweaked the name to make it acceptable to that demographic. And he could do that because he owns the business. Smart move. 

Freddie, Quaker Oats, all companies that change their product name/design to sell to more people have every right to do so.


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## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

GTX63 said:


> Yes, it is racist.
> It isn't a business decision. If so it would have been made before the torches were lit.
> Businesses had the right to name and market their products as they see fit.
> At this current time they do not, so some are being proactive and submitting to the mobs and sjws.


LOL. The right goes both ways, choose to market and name your product with something racist. Choose not to support a business that does that.


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## GTX63 (Dec 13, 2016)

It is not a business decision dictated by the market rather the mob.


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## GTX63 (Dec 13, 2016)

It is not a business decision dictated by the market rather the mob.


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## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

What you call a mob is the market.


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## GTX63 (Dec 13, 2016)

Picket a business over unfair working conditions, strikes, etc.
Intimidation and threats, property destruction is the work of a mob with fascism as its main principle.
Companies like Chuck E Cheese aren't filing Chapter 11 because their pizza is bad, although it is.
Businesses are leaving ghettos and "Occupied" areas of cities for a bigger market share.


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## gleepish (Mar 10, 2003)

Irish Pixie said:


> I missed nothing, I added my opinion, and I never said you applauded anyone.
> 
> A company/person who sells a product will do anything to to sell the product, or they won't have a business long. Freddie figured out a way to sell his sauce in all stores, he didn't care if the name was considered "racist" by some, he just wanted to sell more sauce, so he tweaked the name to make it acceptable to that demographic. And he could do that because he owns the business. Smart move.
> 
> Freddie, Quaker Oats, all companies that change their product name/design to sell to more people have every right to do so.


I feel like you are still missing my point, but maybe I'm not able to explain it correctly. Either way, I need to get off here and start my day anyway. I've got gardens to weed and doors to paint! Have a good one!


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## GTX63 (Dec 13, 2016)

Mobs left unchecked become bigger mobs with wider reaching goals.
They have greater abandoned and less fear of the consequences of harming others.
Nothing noble about inserting fear and destroying business over one's own issues.
Year 2020 is a living link.


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## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

painterswife said:


> What you call a mob is the market.


Exactly. I don't know why that is not understood.


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## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

Irish Pixie said:


> Exactly. I don't know why that is not understood.


It does not fit the narrative of oppression of freedom. In reality there is freedom on both sides and the business chose the freedom to choose money.


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## Lisa in WA (Oct 11, 2004)

painterswife said:


> What you call a mob is the market.


If the mob was the market, AJ would have already gone out of business or changed. This is a mob trying to drive the market.


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## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

Lisa in WA said:


> If the mob was the market, AJ would have already gone out of business or changed. This is a mob trying to drive the market.


Thanks for proving my point that the business owner made a decision based on money going forward. There was no mob going after AJ. People have asked them for years to change and they chose this point in time to do it. No big campaigns were targeting them. Pure business decision.


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## Lisa in WA (Oct 11, 2004)

painterswife said:


> Thanks for proving my point that the business owner made a decision based on money going forward. There was no mob going after AJ. People have asked them for years to change and they chose this point in time to do it. No big campaigns were targeting them. Pure business decision.


There WAS a mob after them when Kirby Maurier posted a tik tok video entitled, “How not to make a racist breakfast” that quickly went viral.
But you are welcome to prove otherwise.
I know when the jaws lock you can spend all day going at it.


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## wr (Aug 10, 2003)

Lisa in WA said:


> If the mob was the market, AJ would have already gone out of business or changed. This is a mob trying to drive the market.


It can be called anything we like but virtue signalling is the new norm.


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

Larnell Evans, Jr. is the great-great-grandson of Anna Short Harrington, one of several actresses who played Aunt Jemima at fairs and in advertisements throughout the early 20th century.

Evans and his nephew, Dannez Hunter, tried to confront Quaker Oats about their shared history in federal court. In September of 2014, they filed a federal lawsuit against PepsiCo, the corporate owner of Quaker Oats, alleging that Harrington had helped develop Aunt Jemima’s signature self-rising pancake mix, and that the company had used her likeness as its logo without providing proper compensation. *They asked for $2 billion in relief and a share of sales revenue.*

https://www.thedailybeast.com/aunt-jemimas-relatives-want-reparations


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## wr (Aug 10, 2003)

painterswife said:


> It does not fit the narrative of oppression of freedom. In reality there is freedom on both sides and the business chose the freedom to choose money.


If the narrative of opression was actually truthful, Aunt Jemima, Mrs Butterwick and Uncle Ben's would have been boycotted off the shelves decades ago instead of being virtue signalled off shelves in recent weeks. 

It's ironic that as soon as the enlightened have a new sermon to preach they pound the pulpit and demand everyone follow their path. 

The world will live on without Aunt Jemima, Mrs Butterwick and Uncle Ben's but black children will still die from drive by shootings, receive lesser education, children are will still hungry, black women will still suffer from domestic violence and sexual assault, babies are still being born addicted to drugs, families live in poverty, people are dying at the hands of gang members, gangs will continue to control neighborhoods and the list goes on. 

Changing packaging will resolve none of the above and if that's the narrative you want to hang your hat on you're more than welcome but I remain disinterested in virtue signalling and speak clearly for change that matters.


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## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

wr said:


> If the narrative of opression was actually truthful, Aunt Jemima, Mrs Butterwick and Uncle Ben's would have been boycotted off the shelves decades ago instead of being virtue signalled off shelves in recent weeks.
> 
> It's ironic that as soon as the enlightened have a new sermon to preach they pound the pulpit and demand everyone follow their path.
> 
> ...


Money talks and the business made a financial choice and I expect the marketing benefit was part of the equation. I only hang my hat on the fact that I am happy with the end result. No virtue
on my part as I was not a party to the choice.


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

wr said:


> Mrs Butterwick


Butterworth, and was she black?


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## Hiro (Feb 14, 2016)

HDRider said:


> Butterworth, and was she black?


As I recall she was amber. Americans of south asian origins haven't started looting and protesting violently enough yet, nor do they have the necessary support of the woke caucasians to facilitate her censorship from the marketplace......give it a few weeks.


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## Hiro (Feb 14, 2016)

I am behind the times, I didn't know she was on the hit list too.


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## homesteadforty (Dec 4, 2007)

Unfortunately, most everything is on the hit list. This time around it was confederate symbols, then founders, then actors, musicians, movies, etc. then monuments and statues, then sports. Soon will come art (paintings, indoor statues, etc.), books, etc.

In the past it's been music, holidays, religion, family, etc. Some of it is not complete yet but the underlying strategy was put in place years ago.

This is not new at all, but it did take a big jump recently. It's sad that for the most part the sheeple can't see it and have been or are content to let it happen.


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

painterswife said:


> What you call a mob is the market.


No, the "market" wasn't whining.



painterswife said:


> *No virtue on my part* as I was not a party to the choice.


Having it has nothing to do with signaling.


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## Hiro (Feb 14, 2016)

homesteadforty said:


> Unfortunately, most everything is on the hit list. This time around it was confederate symbols, then founders, then actors, musicians, movies, etc. then monuments and statues, then sports. Soon will come art (paintings, indoor statues, etc.), books, etc.
> 
> In the past it's been music, holidays, religion, family, etc. Some of it is not complete yet but the underlying strategy was put in place years ago.
> 
> This is not new at all, but it did take a big jump recently. It's sad that for the most part the sheeple can't see it and have been or are content to let it happen.


Bread and circuses vs. the Marxist Revolution?


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## wr (Aug 10, 2003)

Your conviction that the public said anything proves my point.

You seem convinced this is a big step for someone or you wouldn’t keep trying to convince is it is.

It’s about as effective as black boxes. I bet they saved millions of lives too.


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