# Weaning off Lipitor?



## mammabooh (Sep 1, 2004)

I have high cholesterol...356 back in March. Doctor put me on 40 mg of Lipitor a day. However, I am determined to not stay on it. It makes me feel really stupid (foggy brain) and just all-around yucky. I told the doctor that I was very willing to do some major diet changes, but he didn't seem to think it would help...says it's hereditary and that my body is just a cholesterol-making machine. Anyway, Hubby and I started earing better and did a bowel flush the week before my last bloodwork (all raw food, no meat or dairy, and lots of water) and my cholesterol was down to 183. I had been on the Lipitor for 2 months at that time. The doctor had told me that he didn't think the Lipitor would help much, that I would need to be on some heavy doeses of Crestor, but that the insurance company wouldn't like it if he went right to the big guns from the get-go. So, I'm hoping that it was the diet changes that caused such a drastic change in my numbers. 

I read online that one should not stop cold turkey...something about sticky platelets and strokes, but that it should be tapered. So, three weeks ago, I cut my pills in half and have been taking those every night before bed. Now, I'm wondering if I should cut them in half again and take 10 mg a day for a while, or if I should just take the 20 mg every other day. Any thoughts from those who might have some knowledge about such things? I have bloodwork scheduled for August 9, with an office visit a couple of weeks later, so I'd like to be completely off the drug before the 9th so I can see if the diet changes are helping. As soon as my bum leg is back to good working order (fell down the back steps a while back and have been hobbling since then...it's on the mend, though!), I'll be lacing up my walking shoes and doing some major cardio, so that should help too.


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## Use Less (Nov 8, 2007)

That is really quite high. You can make your own decisions, but I think this is something you need to discuss thoroughly with your doctor. You trust him/her, or you don't, but hedging on the plan doesn't feel right. Can you get an additional earlier appointment to discuss trimming or cutting out the med while continuing your dietary changes? Then by the one already scheduled, you and he would both have a comfort level about this.


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## Wolf mom (Mar 8, 2005)

Titrate down by cutting your pills in half again. Slow is best. Better for your system than flooding your system with an every other day dosage. 

My Dr. wanted me on cholesterol medications (my cholesterol level was 100 points lower that yours!) and I refused due to the side effects. Did some research and found that Red Yeast Rice (yes, it's a statin drug however it's natural)- 1200 mg 2X a day has the same effect. I'll take that for 6 months, then go to Niacin. 

Good for you to try alternatives. I really hate doctors that push drugs without trying alternatives!

Must disclaim: the above is just my opinion only!


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## pamda (Oct 14, 2004)

I don't trust my Dr.! And I refuse to take statins at all. My Dr. is a pill pushing fool, and his go to meds are stains and Prozac. Do what wolf mom says, take normal dose the cut that in half the next week then again in half the next. Work your way off. Then keep up the good work on diet and exercise. ( I go to mine because he appears to work for the only clinic that in the area that lets you make payments. I don't have insurance and need my blood pressure meds)


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## Alice In TX/MO (May 10, 2002)

I refuse Statins, and my husband refuses Statins. We went to the Primal diet ( dropping out most carbs), and both of us experienced extreme lowering of cholesterol/triglyceride numbers.

Here's a link to a former astronaut/doctor who is opposed to statins.
http://www.spacedoc.com/

The second paragraph on his website:
I soon realized the adverse reactions involved far more than impaired cognition, including personality change, myopathy, neuropathy and a chronic neuromuscular degeneration similar to ALS and all statins were contributing to these adverse reactions, not just LipitorÂ®.


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## Harry Chickpea (Dec 19, 2008)

If you have the funds for it, see if you can find out what your calcium score is. If you have a score of zero, you likely don't need to worry about cholesterol at all. With levels like yours, I would also want an independent verification (double blind test) from a different lab.


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## mammabooh (Sep 1, 2004)

Harry Chickpea said:


> If you have the funds for it, see if you can find out what your calcium score is. If you have a score of zero, you likely don't need to worry about cholesterol at all. With levels like yours, I would also want an independent verification (double blind test) from a different lab.


I have had my cholesterol checked yearly as part of my husband's insurance plan...we do a health screening to get a lower rate (actually, it's just that they charge you more if you don't have it done). My cholesterol has been in the 300s for a few years, but I finally went to the doctor late winter because I thought I was having thyroid troubles...turned out that it was blood pressure. I was gaining weight, felt lethargic, crabby...within two weeks of being on blood pressure medication, I felt like a new person! I really do hate medications, but I started dropping weight almost immediately after starting the medication. There is a diuretic with it and I must have been retaining water. I dropped 9 pounds in the first two weeks. I have now lost a total of 15 pounds, so I'm hoping that that, along with the better diet/exercise will allow me to get off the BP medication also.

P.s. I'll call and see if they tested calcium. I know they tested a lot of stuff...filled 4 vials!


Anyway, I am not going to tell the doctor that I stopped the Lipitor until after I get the results of the bloodwork in August.


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## Maura (Jun 6, 2004)

Do you know who created the cholesterol levels? Good, bad & ugly? The same companies who make the drugs. Prior to that, the cholesterol levels were much different. What I'm saying is, that what is NOW considered high, was once considered normal. I think I'd compare my cholesterol levels with the old stats.

It's also possible that a higher level is normal for you. Study after study has shown that within any age group, those with the lowest cholesterol die first.


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## mammabooh (Sep 1, 2004)

Maura said:


> Do you know who created the cholesterol levels? Good, bad & ugly? The same companies who make the drugs. Prior to that, the cholesterol levels were much different. What I'm saying is, that what is NOW considered high, was once considered normal. I think I'd compare my cholesterol levels with the old stats.
> 
> It's also possible that a higher level is normal for you. Study after study has shown that within any age group, those with the lowest cholesterol die first.


My good cholesterol has always been very good (like up around 90), so the people at the insurance health screenings have never been too excited about my high number.

I just called the doctor's office to see what my numbers were last time (wondering if the Lipitor might be reducing the good stuff too) and to see if they had checked calcium level. They are going to pull my chart and call me with info tomorrow.

My hubby's number is decent, but his good cholesterol is only something like 30. He's been taking fish oil capsules and doing some other things to try to get that up for the next screening in August.


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## Harry Chickpea (Dec 19, 2008)

Calcium level and calcium score are two different things. Calcium level in the blood is measurable, and can be important for some conditions, but calcium score is done in an MRI, where the heart is imaged and any traces of calcium buildup in it show up on the image slices. The buildup is indicative of plaque and potential for heart attack. 

Cost of any MRI is significant, usually up around $1,000 or more now. Back when we lived in Florida, a startup diagnosis place was offering a "complete body scan" for about that price in cash to help pay for their new scanner. The price included a full calcium score, imaging of the organs, and virtual colonoscopy. For me, it made sense to pay it to learn what, if any, problems I had. Just knowing that my calcium score was zero has saved me at least that much by allowing me to thwart the statin drug dealers. (FWIW, the virtual colonoscopy was much more painful than a standard colonoscopy because it is done fully awake.)


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## Nette (Aug 17, 2003)

At last check, my numbers were similar to yours. But the statins made me feel so lousy, that I decided to take my chances with the hereditary high cholesterol. It's definitely a personal decision.


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## BurgerBoy (Mar 31, 2013)

My nephew got ALS from taking statin drugs. I will never take them after watching him wither away in his wheelchair.


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## haley1 (Aug 15, 2012)

there have a few studies linking statins to alzheimer's


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## Wolf mom (Mar 8, 2005)

Didn't know about the calcium, Harry, thanks.

I have to almost sign my life away to get my own copies of my blood tests - but I'd advise everyone to do this and compare from one year to the next - I caught very low potassium levels one year by doing this when my Dr said everything was OK. (actually, all I get is a pre-printed slip of paper in the mail signed by his nurse.)


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## Molly Mckee (Jul 8, 2006)

If you don't trust your doctor, then find one you trust. If you don't want to take a medication, tell your doctor. It is your life you are playing with and I can't think of much worse than having a serious stroke. I would not be adjusting my medications unless I knew what I was doing, and I certainly would not adjust my medications according to information I found on the internet. It is not right to to that to yourself, and your doctor could refuse to treat you. If a medication makes you feel bad, or you don't think it is safe, tell the doctor how you feel. Or talk to your new doctor about it. If you are not seeing an Internist, it might be a good idea to find one.


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## Micheal (Jan 28, 2009)

I have to agree fully with Molly Mckee; either work with your current doctor or find another one who will work with what you think is right for you. One that at least be willing to offer reasons why you may be wrong in your thinking.......
But to self medicate and/or go against "what the doctor has ordered" without informing him/her is just plain wrong.......

Please cast no stones as others have posted - it's just my opinion.....


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## Kristinemomof3 (Sep 17, 2012)

Also I have no idea about Lipitor, but some meds are not safe to cut.


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## Mid Tn Mama (May 11, 2002)

I don't want to comment about the statins, but I did want to tell you about a wonderful free place to find great information about reducing your cholesterol. 

www.sparkpeople.com is a nutrition and fitness website that lets you track your nutrition and helps you manage what you eat and how to exercise to specifically combat what you are suffering from : high blood pressure, diabetes, high cholesterol, etc...

BTW: My doctor believes that exercise trumps nutrition regarding cholesterol. You need to do both, but she is saying that the best diet in the world for cholesterol is going to fail unless their is sufficient exercise.


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## mammabooh (Sep 1, 2004)

I got a call from the doctor's office today. My last blood draw showed 183 total, with 93 LDL, 78 HDL, and 65 triglycerides. She called again and left a message saying that she was going to make a copy and have it ready for me if I'd like it. I'm hoping the older levels are on there too...I'd really like to compare everything.

Calcium was tested, but it was the level, not the score (of course). It was 9.5, which she said was normal.


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## CathyGo (Apr 26, 2013)

The doctor wanted to put me on statins at the age of 15 due to hereditary high cholesterol. I asked him when I would need a liver transplant as he admitted that I would need to be on it for the rest of my life. He had no answer but said it was a distinct possibility.

I'm not poisoning my body my whole life.

Niacin has been shown to be just as effective in some trials and has been better for the "good" cholesterol in almost every trial.


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## myheaven (Apr 14, 2006)

Watch fat head on Hulu. It's a documentaries. It may make you piVEd at your dr. Just watch it!


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## lemonthyme7 (Jul 8, 2010)

My doctor put me on lovastatin because I am diabetic as a preventive measure, I guess. My cholesterol was 140. I didn't know anything about statin meds at the time. I went off them about a 1 1/2 years ago because I didn't want the complications that can occur. I didn't know anything about tapering off slowly and just quit taking them one day. I didn't have any problems, thankfully. I have my numbers checked every year and if I saw a real problem than I would decide where to go from there. I told my doctor that I wasn't taking them anymore and he was okay with that as long as my numbers stay good.


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## mekasmom (Jan 19, 2010)

Maura said:


> Do you know who created the cholesterol levels? Good, bad & ugly?


Amen, amen, amen. You put the whole thing in perspective with these sentences. And you are right on the topic.


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## SueMc (Jan 10, 2010)

My 80 year old mom talked to her doctor about her short term memory problems. He had her stop taking her statin drug cold turkey. No problems doing it like that and she does have better mental clarity.
My husband has always refused to take a statin. His calcium score is zero.
Statins are a huge money maker for the drug companies.


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## mammabooh (Sep 1, 2004)

Just a bit of an update...I have been off the lipitor since June 20 (I took half pills for several weeks, and then 1/4 pills for 10 days...last 1/4 pill was June 20th). Hubby and I did a colon flush/detox, then one for liver/gallbladder, and then one for the kidneys. We have been eating mostly fruits and vegetables, and I've been taking Niacin and fish oil capsules daily. I had a health screening at Hubby's workplace yesterday, and my total cholesterol was 261...still high, but way better than the 356 that I had earlier this year. I am particularly tickled, because my doctor had said that there was no way that what I ate or didn't eat was going to change anything...only drugs and high doses of them would bring it down.

As I mentioned a while back, I have bloodwork scheduled August 9, with a follow-up office visit a couple of weeks after that. I am hoping to be able to start exercising more, and hope that will bring it down even more. I'll keep you posted.


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## jesirose (Jun 20, 2013)

If you want to stay off the meds, you need to find a doctor who WANTS you to stay off the meds. Otherwise you'll never get the OK to be off them. 

Check out "Forks over Knives", it's on Netflix. Look for a holistic doctor who encourages diet change, not drugs.


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## Harry Chickpea (Dec 19, 2008)

Wish I could double-like your post, mammabooh. Excellent progress and thanks for the update.


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## WindowOrMirror (Jan 10, 2005)

The chance that a 356 cholesterol level will be brought into line / kept in line (below 200) through diet alone is incredibly low... in fact, so low as to be mathematically zero.

Look at recent numbers... with Lipitor you went down to 183... and it's jumped eighty points in a very short time without it.

Listen to your doctor... a little.

R


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## mammabooh (Sep 1, 2004)

WindowOrMirror said:


> The chance that a 356 cholesterol level will be brought into line / kept in line (below 200) through diet alone is incredibly low... in fact, so low as to be mathematically zero.
> 
> Look at recent numbers... with Lipitor you went down to 183... and it's jumped eighty points in a very short time without it.
> 
> ...


Hee hee...you are a party pooper!


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## WindowOrMirror (Jan 10, 2005)

mammabooh said:


> Hee hee...you are a party pooper!


Not at all. I have genetically high cholesterol as well and have completely changed my lifestyle as well. I'm fairly in touch with my body, know a little bit about nutrition and biology and have done additional research into the topic at hand. Changing your lifestyle to include less fat / cholesterol, more fiber, etc and incorporating regular exercise (a more 'active' lifestyle) all helps... a lot! Just not enough to offset a 356!

My calcium score is in the 90+ percentile... on my right coronary artery, the rest are fine. With a higher calcium score the target total cholesterol level is below 100. Well guess what... lifestyle won't make up the gap (regardless how radical the change). Statins alone won't actually make up the gap either.

For me, if it was the 'Widowmaker' (left coronary artery) I'd keep eating cheese and call it good. A massive heart attack and gone would be totally fine with me; I know where I'm going and it's a pretty cool spot He's got picked out for me. The right however? Strokes, decreased quality of life, sitting in a chair drooling? No sir... my wife doesn't deserve that... so healthy it is!

Lifestyle change is critical, your calcium score is good so far... all I'm saying is that the gap is too great - in both our cases - to be made up or maintained by lifestyle alone.

Also, the chances of most of the side effects mentioned are _incredibly_ low. To further reduce the risk of myopathy, take a water-soluble statin.

R

P.S. Yeah.. .sorry about the buzzkill. lol!


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## Nevada (Sep 9, 2004)

mammabooh said:


> Hee hee...you are a party pooper!


But he's probably right. I believe there is a high probability that you have good numbers from the medication. With success like that why fight it?


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## Maura (Jun 6, 2004)

Niacinimide is easier to take than niacin, no flush. It opens the vessels and wrecks any build up. It is the first thing emergency rooms give you if you've had a stroke.

I don't trust the numbers and what they mean put out by the drug companies who, coincidentally, make money off of cholesterol medication. You need to do your own research and find out what works for you. Look at the earliest cholesterol study. They had the numbers upside down. They still do.


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## mammabooh (Sep 1, 2004)

Nevada said:


> But he's probably right. I believe there is a high probability that you have good numbers from the medication. With success like that why fight it?


Because I felt horrible when I was on it! I was mentally very dull (couldn't do very simple math or even read a tape measure) and my body just felt gross. I'm only 44, but I felt like I was 90.


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## mammabooh (Sep 1, 2004)

Maura said:


> Niacinimide is easier to take than niacin, no flush. It opens the vessels and wrecks any build up. It is the first thing emergency rooms give you if you've had a stroke.
> 
> I don't trust the numbers and what they mean put out by the drug companies who, coincidentally, make money off of cholesterol medication. You need to do your own research and find out what works for you. Look at the earliest cholesterol study. They had the numbers upside down. They still do.


I know I'm quite the weirdo, but I actually like the flushing. It makes me feel energized...itchy, but energized!


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## Nevada (Sep 9, 2004)

mammabooh said:


> Because I felt horrible when I was on it! I was mentally very dull (couldn't do very simple math or even read a tape measure) and my body just felt gross. I'm only 44, but I felt like I was 90.


Then talk him into a lower dosage.


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## Alice In TX/MO (May 10, 2002)

I'm with her first post. Get off that junk, it is poisoning you and interfering with normal brain function. Your brain NEEDS good cholesterol to function!!


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## theroots (Jul 29, 2013)

That's awesome that you went all raw ala Genesis 1:29. The original diet - the best diet in the world. There are a ton of testimonials on YouTube about the health benefits of Raw Foods just as nature gives them to us. A couple of years ago I found a great little study done by a graduate student on raw food diets which you can read at http://www.iowasource.com/food/lenkastudy_0806.html.

Just wanted to add a link to a good little book - an easy read - several studies - very interesting - 

Health-Secrets-Of-Live-Foods---14pages


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## Marilyn (Aug 2, 2006)

...and I have another good book to mention: "The Cholesterol Hoax", found it on my doctor's bookshelf. He's an osteopath and _*very*_ partial to nutrition and exercise.


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## CathyGo (Apr 26, 2013)

Maura said:


> Niacinimide is easier to take than niacin, no flush. It opens the vessels and wrecks any build up. It is the first thing emergency rooms give you if you've had a stroke.


From Web MD

"Unlike niacin, niacinamide does not help correct blood fat levels and cannot be substituted for niacin if you are being treated for a blood fat problem (e.g., high cholesterol)."

Darn. I was hoping it was an alternative as I hate the flushing from Niacin.


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## mammabooh (Sep 1, 2004)

CathyGo said:


> From Web MD
> 
> "Unlike niacin, niacinamide does not help correct blood fat levels and cannot be substituted for niacin if you are being treated for a blood fat problem (e.g., high cholesterol)."
> 
> Darn. I was hoping it was an alternative as I hate the flushing from Niacin.


Thanks for posting that. I recently ran out of niacin and had a hard time finding some that wasn't non-flush. I thought I had remembered reading that the non-flush wasn't effective for cholesterol issues, so I wanted to make sure to get the regular stuff. I ended up ordering it on-line.

I don't work outside the home, so the flushing is no big deal for me...I just strip down and scratch like crazy! I would imagine it was be pretty uncomfortable if I was driving to work when it hit.


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## Ambereyes (Sep 6, 2004)

I am not a statin fan, at all, have 4 people in my family that were on them and the results were not good. They had all kinds of side effects to the point of restricting their ability to function.. Muscle pain and weakness for all 4, brain fog, memory loss and in 3 Rhabdomyolysis. Which is severe pain and weakening of the muscles with blood accumulation in the kidneys. One of them died due to the kidney damage.. he was 44 and in good health before taking statins.

Everyone should make their own decision on whether these drugs are right for them, I will not take them..


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## pamda (Oct 14, 2004)

'Statin drugs can not tell the difference between good and bad fats....your brain needs fats to function. When the drugs take the fat from your brain, heart, kidneys they can not function properly. There are a lot of younger people being DX'd with dementia, caused by these drugs. I firmly believe that high numbers and the need for these drugs is an invented problem, made up by drug companies to sell the poisons they make money from.


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## CathyGo (Apr 26, 2013)

mammabooh said:


> I thought I had remembered reading that the non-flush wasn't effective for cholesterol issues, so I wanted to make sure to get the regular stuff. I ended up ordering it on-line.



Most of the stuff labeled non-flush is just time released.


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## mammabooh (Sep 1, 2004)

CathyGo said:


> Most of the stuff labeled non-flush is just time released.


From what I've read, the non-flush stuff doesn't have the same ingredients that the regular stuff does. The non-flush will still help metabolism, but not cholesterol.


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## Maura (Jun 6, 2004)

There is niacin, and there is niacinamide. B3. If niacin gives you a flush, you can lower the dosage. I took 250 mg, it was awful. Cut the pill in two. Still awful. Cut it in 4, horrible. That's when I went to the other. Use what works for you. Niacin is a main ingredient in one of the cholesterol medicines.


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## Molly Mckee (Jul 8, 2006)

I wish you would go to another doctor if you don't like yours, or go back to yours and tell him how you feel on the drug. He can't fix it if he doesn't know what is going on. He just may tell you when he finds out you are not communicating with him and have taken yourself off the drugs to find another doctor. 

I do not understand why you or anyone will take advice from people on the internet that may or may not know what they are talking about and are not professionals. They are not the ones going to be sitting around like a vegetable when you have a stroke. If you think it's no big deal, go visit a nursing home that has sever stroke patients. Think about how you would feel if you don't die but have a lot of damage from a stroke and you can do nothing for yourself. 

Your cholesterol is too high. The people urging you to go against your doctors advice are not doing you any favors. They may be well intended but they are very foolish. You and your family are the ones that will suffer if you have a stroke and don't die.


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## Harry Chickpea (Dec 19, 2008)

Molly Mckee said:


> I wish you would go to another doctor if you don't like yours, or go back to yours and tell him how you feel on the drug. He can't fix it if he doesn't know what is going on. He just may tell you when he finds out you are not communicating with him and have taken yourself off the drugs to find another doctor.
> 
> I do not understand why you or anyone will take advice from people on the internet that may or may not know what they are talking about and are not professionals. They are not the ones going to be sitting around like a vegetable when you have a stroke. If you think it's no big deal, go visit a nursing home that has sever stroke patients. Think about how you would feel if you don't die but have a lot of damage from a stroke and you can do nothing for yourself.
> 
> Your cholesterol is too high. The people urging you to go against your doctors advice are not doing you any favors. They may be well intended but they are very foolish. You and your family are the ones that will suffer if you have a stroke and don't die.


I have a real problem with this post. To be blunt - YOU are not a professional either. If you are having this strong a reaction, it is also clear to me that you could benefit from a lot more reading on both sides of the issue. 

The person with the high calcium score that posted was exactly correct in knowing that her score made her a valid "at-risk" person who could benefit from that course of drug therapy. The MAJORITY of people taking statins are NOT at risk, and are putting themselves at risk for other issues by taking the drug without first researching those side effects.

You are doing no favors by fear-mongering.


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## mammabooh (Sep 1, 2004)

Molly Mckee said:


> I wish you would go to another doctor if you don't like yours, or go back to yours and tell him how you feel on the drug. He can't fix it if he doesn't know what is going on. He just may tell you when he finds out you are not communicating with him and have taken yourself off the drugs to find another doctor.
> 
> I do not understand why you or anyone will take advice from people on the internet that may or may not know what they are talking about and are not professionals. They are not the ones going to be sitting around like a vegetable when you have a stroke. If you think it's no big deal, go visit a nursing home that has sever stroke patients. Think about how you would feel if you don't die but have a lot of damage from a stroke and you can do nothing for yourself.
> 
> Your cholesterol is too high. The people urging you to go against your doctors advice are not doing you any favors. They may be well intended but they are very foolish. You and your family are the ones that will suffer if you have a stroke and don't die.


As I said before, I have bloodwork scheduled for August 9 with an office visit a couple of weeks later. I told him from the get-go that I didn't want to be on cholesterol medicine. I'm sure he won't be surprised that I quit taking it.


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## Nevada (Sep 9, 2004)

mammabooh said:


> As I said before, I have bloodwork scheduled for August 9 with an office visit a couple of weeks later. I told him from the get-go that I didn't want to be on cholesterol medicine. I'm sure he won't be surprised that I quit taking it.


The obvious question here is what you intend to do if your cholesterol jumps back up when you discontinue the Lipitor? I suspect it will. If that happens to you intend to stay with your decision to discontinue Lipitor?


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## Molly Mckee (Jul 8, 2006)

Actually I am an RN, and I'm not fear mongering. I wish these medical threads were deleted, so many that post do not realize they can really hurt someone. A few years ago a member"s DH died--He refused to go to the hospital but she got all kinds of really bad advice.

If your"medical education" is limited to what you read on the internet, your own experience and things you have heard, IMO you have no reason to give people you have never met medical advice. Especially when they have a true problem that can cause serious problems for them if things go wrong.


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## paradox (Nov 19, 2012)

I feel your pain - literally. The doc had me try a couple of different drugs and all gave me "knock you to your knees suddenly" back pain. Can't take them. Also have been told by a few docs that its hereditary and diet won't help. Seems to ring true as my Dad has been on miserably strict diets (he has tried a few different ones) for more than two decades now and his numbers are still bad. He manages to take some meds too but had trouble with a few like I did. They also had him on high doses of fish oil but new study says that raises your risk of prostate cancer by 70% - holy cow. And he has had many prostate issues so I think he is going to have to drop that. All you can do is weigh the pros and cons of all your options and decide what works best for you. Yes you should listen to doctors but you can also find doctors who are willing to listen to what you can live with too and find some kind of compromise.


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## paradox (Nov 19, 2012)

Molly Mckee said:


> Actually I am an RN, and I'm not fear mongering. I wish these medical threads were deleted, so many that post do not realize they can really hurt someone. A few years ago a member"s DH died--He refused to go to the hospital but she got all kinds of really bad advice.
> 
> If your"medical education" is limited to what you read on the internet, your own experience and things you have heard, IMO you have no reason to give people you have never met medical advice. Especially when they have a true problem that can cause serious problems for them if things go wrong.


 
I think she probably knew that we are not all medical professionals. I am sure she was interested in what others had experienced or what their doctors had told them, and am equally sure she is smart enough to realize that she has to take all the responses with a grain of salt. 

You will notice the responses were varied and you can chalk that up to us being amateurs, but my experience is you will get equally varied responses from actual doctors. When I used to get frustrated because the new doc was telling me the exact opposite of the last one, my husband would always grin and remind me that is why they call it "practicing medicine". 

Medical science changes their mind about things faster than some people change their britches. This is good for you, no wait, its bad for you, oops sorry my bad, it is good for you after all, but new studies show....All any of us can do is get a few opinions, and see what seems to actually work for us. Because at the end of the day, we don't really know everything about the human body, not everything can be fixed, and sometimes the cure is worse than the disease.


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## Nevada (Sep 9, 2004)

Molly Mckee said:


> Actually I am an RN, and I'm not fear mongering. I wish these medical threads were deleted, so many that post do not realize they can really hurt someone. A few years ago a member"s DH died--He refused to go to the hospital but she got all kinds of really bad advice.
> 
> If your"medical education" is limited to what you read on the internet, your own experience and things you have heard, IMO you have no reason to give people you have never met medical advice. Especially when they have a true problem that can cause serious problems for them if things go wrong.


I opposed high doses of Lipitor for Alma one time, but there was a dispute over whether Lipitor was indicated.

She came out of the hospital one time on 40 mg of Lipitor. The reason was that she had been diagnosed with a small CVA during that stay. I was not clear on why the stroke occurred because she always had clear arteries & low cholesterol, and she never had high blood pressure. In fact the lab work done during her hospital stay showed a perfectly normal cholesterol level.

When we got to her primary physician I showed her the discharge papers and lab work I brought from the hospital. I questioned what they were trying to accomplish with 40 mg of Lipitor, since there was no history of high cholesterol and her cholesterol was normal at the time. Her doctor told me that since Alma had a CVA they were expected to prescribe something like Lipitor.

Even though that made no sense to me, I was determined to work along with her doctor. What I suggested was that we lower to dosage of Lipitor to 10 mg and see how her blood work looked in a few weeks. Her doctor agreed. Her cholesterol remained normal, but the 10 mg Lipitor was continued for the rest of her life. She died of sepsis, so I suspect that Lipitor played no part in her demise.

My point is that you should fight for what you believe in, but you need to follow your doctor's advice. Don't start or stop any prescription medications behind your doctor's back. If you become convinced that your doctor's advice is contrary to your interests and he won't work along with you, then you need to find another doctor.


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## CathyGo (Apr 26, 2013)

So she was on a potentially dangerous drug for no reason other than it's typically prescribed and you were okay with that as long as they lowered the dose.

That makes no sense. If it's not needed why should she take it and face potential side effects?


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## Nevada (Sep 9, 2004)

CathyGo said:


> So she was on a potentially dangerous drug for no reason other than it's typically prescribed and you were okay with that as long as they lowered the dose.
> 
> That makes no sense. If it's not needed why should she take it and face potential side effects?


It didn't make sense, I agree, but I'm not a doctor so I wasn't in a position to tell her doctor what to do. My opinion was that 10 mg of Lipitor had a lot less potential for side effects than 40 mg, but I wasn't going to go against her doctor's advice and not give her the 10 mg.

My medical training was in the context of fire rescue work. While I usually understand what's going on, I would be a poor substitute for an MD. I assume that her doctor knows the dangers of Lipitor at least as well as I do. Besides, what kind of a caregiver changes prescribed medications because he doesn't like some of the medications the doctor prescribed? That's really beyond the scope of what a caregiver should be doing.


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## rod44 (Jun 17, 2013)

I can't take statins. They affect my liver. Heart Doc put me on a double dose of Metamucil twice a day. Helps take the colestrol through the gut. Brought it down some and I don't have to take a book to the john with me:lookout:


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## pamda (Oct 14, 2004)

My doctor knows the dangers (I asked him point blank) but was willing to have me take it anyway. As he put it...it's saved so many from heart attacks, yada-yada...but what happens when my liver gets sick or my mind goes? Well,it happens but it's worth the risk. Nope, it is not worth the risk. And I am not taking it...He is young and very big pill pusher. Also told me the pain in my leg, knee and hands is because I am depressed, (as in, it's all in my head) and here take this Prozac. It will help the depression and the pain. Don't ya know..it helps pain in the little woman's head. (nope am not taking that either).


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## Nevada (Sep 9, 2004)

pamda said:


> My doctor knows the dangers (I asked him point blank) but was willing to have me take it anyway. As he put it...it's saved so many from heart attacks, yada-yada...but what happens when my liver gets sick or my mind goes? Well,it happens but it's worth the risk. Nope, it is not worth the risk. And I am not taking it...He is young and very big pill pusher. Also told me the pain in my leg, knee and hands is because I am depressed, (as in, it's all in my head) and here take this Prozac. It will help the depression and the pain. Don't ya know..it helps pain in the little woman's head. (nope am not taking that either).


All prescription medications have side effects. The benefits have to be weighed against the risks. That's why you have a doctor, so he can make that determination for you.

I believe that Alma's prednisone contributed to her demise, because it has the nasty side effect of beating up the immune system and she died of sepsis. We discussed discontinuing prednisone time and time again. But it was the only thing that kept her RA from inflaming her joints. She couldn't even walk without prednisone. In that case we had to give it to her anyway, even knowing that it might be the end of her.

These aren't easy decisions.


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## Harry Chickpea (Dec 19, 2008)

Molly Mckee said:


> Actually I am an RN, and I'm not fear mongering. I wish these medical threads were deleted, so many that post do not realize they can really hurt someone. A few years ago a member"s DH died--He refused to go to the hospital but she got all kinds of really bad advice.
> 
> If your"medical education" is limited to what you read on the internet, your own experience and things you have heard, IMO you have no reason to give people you have never met medical advice. Especially when they have a true problem that can cause serious problems for them if things go wrong.


Molly, my experience it part personal experience, part from reading, part from observations of others. I challenge you that a lot of doctor experience comes from that AND the Pfizer or other rep coming around with SWAG and a briefcase full of laudatory studies. My ex-girlfriend of many years ago had a close friend who worked for one of the major drug companies and the sheets weren't clean even back then.

What I ask, ne DEMAND is that someone who want ME to embark upon something radically different and with possible negative side effects "Show me the beef." If that person wants to do it on their own, great. I had one doctor who self-medicated and was eventually sent to prison for medicare fraud. 

I'm different that a lot of people in that I DO take personal responsibility for my health in a variety of ways. I've seen (and I am sure you have seen) some people who had serious negative effects from medications. Sometimes in the wards _I_ was handing out those medications. Doctors are humans, not gods. They guide, and in a whole lot of instances they guide well. In other instances, they don't. For instance, while my mother was touring the U.S. with my father, the State Hospital in Delaware was "scientifically" castrating gays and those with mental defect to protect the gene pool. When I was walking the tunnels of VSH during my job, I got to see the discarded hydrotherapy baths and cages for the violent that were once state of the art medical care. Do NOT try to trump me with faith in the omniscience of the medical field. Show me a non-drug company sponsored peer reviewed study proving the efficacy of statins in a population of low calcium score patients with no previous heart issues and I'll be happy to read it.


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## pamda (Oct 14, 2004)

Before I allow anyone to make decisions that could very easily ruin my health..I want that person to know me and I want to trust them..I do not nor have I ever trusted a Dr enough to give them cart blanch with my life. I read, I study and I listen to those that have been there done that. I would be willing to take a different type of anti depressant. And I have panic attacks that Xanax help well with. This Dr will not listen and will only prescribe Prozac, making me wonder what he is thinking. He totally refused to consider anything else. And he laughs at taking vitamins and other non prescription things. I am looking for someone different, but need my high BP meds and thyroid meds so will have to deal with him until I find someone.


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## Nevada (Sep 9, 2004)

pamda said:


> I am looking for someone different, but need my high BP meds and thyroid meds so will have to deal with him until I find someone.


I wouldn't see a doctor just to get prescriptions. Just order your meds from overseas. They don't require a prescription, it costs less even if you have insurance, and they'll mail them to your home. Meds like blood pressure & thyroid seldom change dosages, so if you know what you need just get it yourself.

If you need help on that PM your medications & dosages to me and I'll steer you in the right direction.


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## Molly Mckee (Jul 8, 2006)

Harry Chickpea said:


> Molly, my experience it part personal experience, part from reading, part from observations of others. I challenge you that a lot of doctor experience comes from that AND the Pfizer or other rep coming around with SWAG and a briefcase full of laudatory studies. My ex-girlfriend of many years ago had a close friend who worked for one of the major drug companies and the sheets weren't clean even back then.
> 
> What I ask, ne DEMAND is that someone who want ME to embark upon something radically different and with possible negative side effects "Show me the beef." If that person wants to do it on their own, great. I had one doctor who self-medicated and was eventually sent to prison for medicare fraud.
> 
> I'm different that a lot of people in that I DO take personal responsibility for my health in a variety of ways. I've seen (and I am sure you have seen) some ppeople who had serious negative effects from medications. Sometimes in the wards _I_ was handing out those medications. Doctors are humans, not gods. They guide, and in a whole lot of instances they guide well. In other instances, they don't. For instance, while my mother was touring the U.S. with my father, the State Hospital in Delaware was "scientifically" castrating gays and those with mental defect to protect the gene pool. When I was walking the tunnels of VSH during my job, I got to see the discarded hydrotherapy baths and cages for the violent that were once state of the art medical care. Do NOT try to trump me with faith in the omniscience of the medical field. Show me a non-drug company sponsored peer reviewed study proving the efficacy of statins in a population of low calcium score patients with no previous heart issues and I'll be happy to read it.


Of course I have seen drug reactions, but there are two very basic points I'm trying to make-

If you don't like what your Dr prescribes sit down and talk to them about it. There are drug reactions, there are real dangers in not treating as well. It is not fair to the Dr or to you to disregard the Dr's advise without telling him. Meds can be changed, but without knowing you are having problems there is nothing he can do.
Some doctors will tell people that don't listen to find another doctor. If you want good health care you have to communicate with the doctor.

Realize that the information given to you by others, that they learned from the Internet or personal experience, is not more valuable than that from the doctor that has seen you. Some people are anti medication, and they can quote studies to prove they are right. Most people have no way of knowing if the study is valid or has major flaws. They do not have the training or experience to know what the study says.

I have seen so much bad medical information given in some of these threads. People don't understand enough to know what they don't know, some information offered is simply wrong, other information is dangerous. I wish they would be closed, sooner or later someone will have serious problems by following it.

Mamabooth has seriously high chlorestal problems, she should IMO work with a doctor to get healthy, not follow the advice of people who agree with her. I'd rather not have her DH post that she has had a stroke and can't communicate .


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