# How old before I can expect LGD to guard?



## Sherri C (Jun 21, 2002)

We have an almost 7 month old GP puppy; we've had him for 2 months now. He was getting bullied by the goats so we have him on an overhead runline between the barn and the chicken coop and he seems much happier now...maybe too happy?

I came out to do milking this morning at 5:30 and it was just starting to get light. I could hear something crashing around in the weeds behind the chicken coop so I yelled and whatever it was ran away. The whole time the puppy is about 50' away in the barn sleeping. I could hear whatever the critter in the weeds was (I suspect raccoon) from twice that distance. I check the coop and discover that I'm missing my last EE hen. I started with 12 chickens and now I'm down to only one. :grump: 

I know that GPs mature slower than other dogs. How old does he need to get before I start expecting him to actively guard the livestock? I had hoped that his mere presence down by the barn would be enough to deterr the raccoons but unfortunately I was wrong.

I don't want to put expectations on this pup that he's not developmentally ready to handle yet, but I'm so bummed about losing my chickens that I'm about ready to throw in the towel and move back to the city. :Bawling:


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

Part of the "guarding " ability of any LGD is being able to patrol and mark his territory. One thats tied up cant do that at all, so youre limiting his effectivness, and he wont ever learn to deal with the goats if he's not in with them all the time.

Guard dogs will only alert to things that are "out of place" Noises arent necessarily in that category. Also, it COULD be that he had already alerted to the noise, but being tied up wasnt able to do more than bark, so he gave up, and the **** figured that out. Ive seen deer stand right beside a pen full of deer hounds and "laugh" at them while they barked because it had figured out they couldnt get to it.
To learn to guard effectively, the dog has to be WITH the animals it's guarding.


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## cricket (Dec 15, 2004)

Yep...he's GOT to be in with the livestock. However, his personality may not be that of a LIVESTOCk guard dog. Was he with parents or at least mama, and livestock, until he was at least 3 mos old? If not, he's got to be trained to it... People scoff at leaving LGD's in with mama until that late but they get a whole lot of training during that time. Leaving it to instinct is a myth...


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## ginnie5 (Jul 15, 2003)

well ours is guarding my "kids" and he's already letting us know if something isn't right at 4 1/2 months. If the cat comes in the house he barks. If he hears people out on the road he barks, if there is someone in the drive he barks. Actually though our little lhasa poo is the point man......he has the most ferocious bark to be such a little dog. He goes barking at everything first and Bandit comes barking to back him up. They are quite the team!


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## thequeensblessing (Mar 30, 2003)

Yes, her pup was one of our litter. He was with his mother, out with our livestock until she purchased him. He was used to goats, horses, cattle, hogs, and poultry. 

The biggest issue is with the aggressive goats. A young Pyr pup who is with any aggressive livestock, especially livestock that causes physical pain or actual fear such as an agressive goat (especially one that "bullies" it) can lose training quickly! 

When we discussed this, I suggested tying the aggressive goat and leaving the pyr pup with the others in the pasture, but was told that wasn't really an option. I told her she could tie the Pyr on a run for a temporary fix, until her pastures were secure and the aggressive goat could be separated. 

I agree with those who said that a Pyr must have the run of the property or pasture it is supposed to guard. Pyrs only react to "strange" animals. If a **** or deer or even a bear is brave enough to come around because he knows the dog's limits, and it hangs out on a regular basis, the pyr is going to get used to it. Normal pyr response is to bark and pursue the interloper. If the dog barks and the interloper stands it's ground, the pyr can't get to it, it will eventually come to recognize it as "friendly". 
Basically, you are undoing this pups training. You can still turn it around if you will tie the aggressive goat, or separate it, fix your pasture fencing so the dog can't get out, and then put the dog in with the other goats. This is really the only fix there is. 
We tether my male pyr near our poultry house. Our birds are free-range birds, but not pastured, so there is no fence to keep Dudley in his area otherwise. We are in the process of fencing the entire area and he'll be free to patrol the entire space. Our female is our Pasture Pyr. We made sure that Dudley has access to all 3 sides of the poultry house. (the fourth side is actually attached to our barn.) He can get to anything that tries to infiltrate the poultry house. Otherwise, he wouldn't be able to do his job at all. 
Tethering can work, but it must be well thought out and implemented if it is to be a longer term solution. The best solution is to correct the problems that keep you from pasturing your pup with your livestock.


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## Sherri C (Jun 21, 2002)

I'm picking up the new goats this weekend. I'll give everyone a couple of days to get acquainted and then he'll be in with the newbies. Mean goat will be in a different area. The downside to this plan is that once he's in the pasture he will no longer have access to the area where the chickens are.

Our one remaining chicken has taken to hanging out in the barn with the goats. I'm telling people that she's in the "Chicken Witness Relocation Program".

I think that our mistake may have been in disciplining him for chasing the barn cats, and now he's lumping raccoons in the same category as cats. 

thanks for your input.


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

Here's one of mine at 3 weeks old guarding Blue, the Hound.


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## Spinner (Jul 19, 2003)

Mine didn't become really good guards until they were about 2 years old. Before that age, they still had the puppy playfulness. I have a new puppy now that will hopefully learn from the adults. She's only a couple months old and so far the only things she's learned is to not chase the chickens, and to keep out of the goat pen or get stepped on. She's also very good at nipping our ankles when we are out in the yard. She's a grand-daughter of my excellent male LGD so I hope she inherited his natural instincts.


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## Batt (Sep 8, 2006)

We rescued our youngest GP when he was less than a year old. He had played too rough with a younger goat and the owner was going to put him down. We put him in with our older GP, first in a kennel within the pen for about 3 months, then 3 months in a separate pen next to the goat pen, and now about 3 months with the goats and the other GP. He is just now getting over puppyhood and starting to guard as I expect. Another 3 - 6 months he should be ready for his own bunch of goats. Just my 2Â¢ worth. BTW the older GP is about 2Â½ years old and his Â½ brother, super guard dog.


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## chicamarun (Dec 26, 2006)

Ok - I'll ask this question. Especially since today Corona decided to visit the neighbors through the electric fence which all other times she obeys without a problem.

Would it undo anything if we tether her out while we are NOT here and then let her "free" once we return? Or is it better to tether her out there for awhile until we get the fencing of just that area completed?

I was just at the market today when this happened and my neighbor got her (wasn't too thrilled and luckily I was 2 minutes from home).


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## leecofarm (Feb 5, 2007)

i got my pyrs at 2 1/2 months of age. put them with the goats. my yard dogs were protection until the pyrs were of a good size. then at 8 months my two pyrs chased a bobcat away. but it bugged me that they completely ignored the coyotes howling on the next property. at 10 months something changed and they now go running toward coyote howls and growl and bark along the fence. they have reached max size of about 90-100 lbs. 

they are allowed to roam across the whole place and join me in a walk around the perimeter as i check the fences. they check little dig outs under fences and carefully check holes and around brush piles. each morning one does a walk around. 

the house and pens are in the middle of the place so the pyrs can circle around.


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