# Did the Windows 8 thing -- not happy...



## Nevada

I installed Windows 8 Pro 64-bit today. Actually, I upgraded Windows 7.

It took about 1 1/2 hours. It seemed to go well, but my wireless adapter had a problem when it was through. My adapter is supposed to be compatible with Win8, but it wouldn't turn on. I kept clicking the "Turn on Radio" button, but the button kept coming back. I uninstalled the adapter driver then rebooted. It seems to be working fine now.

I don't like it. It's easy enough to go to the desktop app, which basically takes you to what you have with Win7, but there is no easy route to applications that don't have shortcuts on the desktop. I had to create a toolbar on the task bar to get at those. People are going to complain big-time about that.

It's clumsy to reach the control panel, but I suppose that's because I'm not used to it yet. To me, it seems like Microsoft went out of their way to make Win8 much trouble as they possibly could.

To be honest, If I knew then what I know now I wouldn't have installed it. I suppose I'll keep it since I did it though.

As far as resources go, it used 11 gigs more hard drive space but uses about the same amount of memory as I used with Win7 Home Premium 32-bit. I don't think things are happening any faster, in fact it seems more sluggish. Maybe I just am not accustomed to the rhythm of Win8.

I'm willing to admit that a lot of my opinion is the result of me not being used to it yet, but Windows 8 really doesn't seem to be very well thought out.


----------



## Nevada

I hate this! I really, really hate it!

Microsoft trains us to find things with the Start Menu for 17 years, then takes it away. They don't replace it with anything functionally similar. Is this some kind of joke?


----------



## crispin

What was your reason for upgrading?


----------



## Nevada

crispin said:


> What was your reason for upgrading?


No good reason. I'm in the habit of upgrading right away because I used to do tech support for Internet connectivity subscribers. I learned that if I wasn't familiar with a new version of Windows that subscribers would deny that things like the My Computer icon existed in their systems.

I suppose I'll eventually learn to live with it, but I can't figure out why Microsoft did this. Business customers will lash out over this because of loss of productivity. From a business standpoint, Windows 8 is a disaster.

I suspect that Microsoft will have to do something to make Windows 8 functional again. People are going to look in the "Metro Tiles" for their applications and not find them. That's not going to be pretty.

This is really bad. Microsoft deserves to lose market share over this. They made a conscious decision to forsake productivity for a cutesy, trendy interface. Microsoft simply isn't taking their product seriously any longer. Windows 8 is a toy, not a business tool.


----------



## arabian knight

I guess you didn't see this video. Many more just like it. People ARE going to be ticked off big time.~1
*

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v4boTbv9_nU]How Real People Will Use Windows 8 - YouTube[/ame]*


----------



## Nevada

arabian knight said:


> I guess you didn't see this video. Many more just like it. People ARE going to be ticked off big time.~1
> *
> 
> How Real People Will Use Windows 8 - YouTube*


*

I saw reviews like that during the beta test period, but I assumed that Microsoft was listening to the beta testers. True to form, Microsoft didn't listen at all.

Microsoft is taking a big gamble getting rid of the Start Menu so abruptly without replacing it with something functionally equivalent. The Metro Tiles have no provision to get to the control panel, command prompt, or any other functions we look in the start menu for.

Honestly, I see what they're trying to do, but they didn't get there. This product isn't ready for release.*


----------



## katheh

Never, never upgrade a Microsoft product the day of release.

:facepalm:


----------



## RedDirt Cowgirl

Here I was with a pity mouse in my pocket for having to buy a new laptop just before 8 came out. Now I feel better.:benice:


Looks like they've been channelling AOL - welcome to our world and just try to beat your way out of it :trollface
Is there still a desktop where you can stick programs, files and shortcuts?


----------



## Darren

Still happy with XP. :banana:


----------



## Nevada

RedDirt Cowgirl said:


> Is there still a desktop where you can stick programs, files and shortcuts?


Yes. That's how I got around it. I put shortcuts to the things I used to find in the Start Menu on the desktop. It's not that difficult, and I'm functional again.


----------



## arabian knight

Darren said:


> Still happy with XP. :banana:


Yes Xp has been a very good if not the best OS that MS has come out with. But a little over a year and XP will not be supported anymore. And XP is already being left in the dark with some web pages would support XP now.


----------



## Nevada

arabian knight said:


> Yes Xp has been a very good if not the best OS that MS has come out with.


XP had its problems too. It was pretty buggy the first year, but it firmed-up with updates & service packs. Hopefully Windows 8 will become more user friendly with time.


----------



## RedDirt Cowgirl

Nevada said:


> No good reason. I'm in the habit of upgrading right away because I used to do tech support for Internet connectivity subscribers. I learned that if I wasn't familiar with a new version of Windows that subscribers would deny that things like the My Computer icon existed in their systems.
> 
> I suppose I'll eventually learn to live with it, but I can't figure out why Microsoft did this. Business customers will lash out over this because of loss of productivity. From a business standpoint, Windows 8 is a disaster.
> 
> I suspect that Microsoft will have to do something to make Windows 8 functional again. People are going to look in the "Metro Tiles" for their applications and not find them. That's not going to be pretty.
> 
> This is really bad. Microsoft deserves to lose market share over this. They made a conscious decision to forsake productivity for a cutesy, trendy interface. Microsoft simply isn't taking their product seriously any longer. Windows 8 is a toy, not a business tool.


Once again, AOL comes to mind. They'd love us to be busy "social networking" instead of working. Like 'LIKE' - deliver youself up for marketing fodder. The more captives they have the more they can claim on the balance sheet. Pee-yew. I just love going back to picture symbols, who needs to read anymore...


----------



## ||Downhome||

Common Nevada every release of Windows is beta until the Users fix the problems.
Then MS makes a hotfix for those unable too.
Once all the bugs get corrected they release a new OS version.

There is always Linux.


----------



## calliemoonbeam

Thanks for the heads up Nevada! I'm going to be buying a new computer around the first of the year, and I wondered whether to stick with 7 or go on up to 8 while I'm at it. Though, like I mentioned elsewhere, I usually like to stay a version behind until I'm sure they have the kinks worked out. Sounds like this one has a lot of kinks! 

As knowledgeable as you are, if you're having that much trouble, just think how much the average barely-literate user will have! It seems like all software companies are going that route, who cares about productivity or ease of use as long as it's "cute" or "cool"! 

Every time my work software has been upgraded, it's been more user un-friendly and instead of a function taking 1-2 steps they change it to 4-5 and change more and more functions to mouse instead of keyboard commands. When you do production typing like I do, keeping your hands on that keyboard is the #1 priority! Some days I feel like I could do a better job, and I've never had a single programming class, lol! 

Keyboards are a whole 'nother issue...they keep making them smaller and lighter, and when you do production typing they slide all over the desk! I type a report and pull the keyboard back, type a report and pull the keyboard back. When you type over 100 reports a day, this gets really old! Okay, getting off my soapbox now, lol.


----------



## Kung

For those who are interested:

How to Open God Mode on Windows 8, 7 & Vista


----------



## Kung

I've been upgraded to Windows 8 for about 2 months now, ever since the RTM version was released.

Suffice to say that while I've gotten used to it, it's OBVIOUS that they're betting a TON on the tablet...and not all of the ideas carried over to the desktop from the tablet are good ones. LOL


----------



## simi-steading

Microsoft keeps me employed at work (IT support)... Linux keeps me happy at home..


----------



## Mutti

Callie...get a piece of the stuff they put under rugs to keep them from skidding and place under keyboard.


----------



## Belfrybat

THANK YOU! THANK YOU! THANK YOU! I got on here this morning to ask the techy folks if I should upgrade to Win8. So glad I did. I hate Win7 and keep going back to my old XP computer to do some tasks that are much easier. 

The same with an upgrade from MS Office 2003 to 2007. I ended up buying a program to reinstall the classic menus. But it still won't do automatic page numbers in Word like the 2003 version does. So after a document is finished I have to go back through manually and type in page numbers -- not fun when the document is 30+ pages long. It seems everytime MS updates something they leave us regular people in the dust.


----------



## simi-steading

I'm a big fan of Open Office compared to Microsoft Office... I can't stand the new banners in MS.


----------



## Belfrybat

simi-steading said:


> I'm a big fan of Open Office compared to Microsoft Office... I can't stand the new banners in MS.


I used OO on one of my computers and like it, but it doesn't have an equivilent to Publisher, and so many of my files are in that format that it would be very difficult to switch to another DTP.


----------



## simi-steading

Have you taken a look at Scribus? Not sure if it supports publisher files or not..


----------



## Nevada

Kung said:


> I've been upgraded to Windows 8 for about 2 months now, ever since the RTM version was released.
> 
> Suffice to say that while I've gotten used to it, it's OBVIOUS that they're betting a TON on the tablet...and not all of the ideas carried over to the desktop from the tablet are good ones. LOL


If Microsoft doesn't provide a functional equivalent to the Start Menu, and do it fast, user productivity will drop. When that happens companies will be asking their IT people to suggest an alternative to Windows 8. It's just that simple.


----------



## arabian knight

Nevada said:


> If Microsoft doesn't provide a functional equivalent to the Start Menu, and do it fast, user productivity will drop. When that happens companies will be asking their IT people to suggest an alternative to Windows 8. It's just that simple.


I know I had to get over looking for a start menu when I go this iMac. LOL
I know MS is trying to make desktops look and "feel" similar to their Tablets.
But there are by far more out there using Apple iPads and such that are more then happy to see iMacs now look and feel like iPads. You can scroll, move pages to the side click enlarge pages etc. ALL by using just a special mouse pad. And all without using a mouse but only ones fingers just like you do on iPads.
MS is trying to follow suit, but I am afraid this maybe a huge blunder on MS part. Because there are not that many using MS type tablets and may not like to do the same on their Computers.
Where Apple users have been doing this for years and the switch over on their desktops to "work" and "feel" like iPads is no big deal to them. LOL


----------



## Nevada

arabian knight said:


> I know I had to get over looking for a start menu when I go this iMac. LOL
> I know MS is trying to make desktops look and "feel" similar to their Tablets.
> But there are by far more out there using Apple iPads and such that are more then happy to see iMacs now look and feel like iPads. You can scroll, move pages to the side click enlarge pages etc. ALL by using just a special mouse pad. And all without using a mouse but only ones fingers just like you do on iPads.
> MS is trying to follow suit, but I am afraid this maybe a huge blunder on MS part. Because there are not that many using MS type tablets and may not like to do the same on their Computers.
> Where Apple users have been doing this for years and the switch over on their desktops to "work" and "feel" like iPads is no big deal to them. LOL


There is no logical reason why computer workstations need to look and work the same as tablets & smart phones. If Microsoft wants to abandon the PC market to dominate the tablet market then that's fine, but they can't be surprised if PC owners look elsewhere for operating systems.


----------



## arabian knight

One thing about the large "tiles" is that it would work great with "touch screens"


----------



## Nevada

arabian knight said:


> One thing about the large "tiles" is that it would work great with "touch screens"


The thing is that workstation users don't work in the Metro Tile area, they work in the Desktop environment.


----------



## fordy

...................I've read several evaluations of Win8 and NONE of them was recommending the UPgrade ! They must think tablets will replace the desktop computers ! My guess is this will be a big flop and there'll be a revolt against this latest version as time passes ! , fordy:shrug:


----------



## CJ

I thought you could turn off the Metro interface and it would look just like it always has?


----------



## simi-steading

Can we take bets if it ends up as big as MS Bob or ME?


----------



## Nevada

CJ said:


> I thought you could turn off the Metro interface and it would look just like it always has?


I don't think so. You can click to open the Desktop app, which opens an environment similar to Win7 but it has no Start Menu. Really, if they just give us the Start Menu back people won't mind so much. If they do that workstation users can simply ignore the Metro Tiles.


----------



## Nevada

simi-steading said:


> Can we take bets if it ends up as big as MS Bob or ME?


Could be, but I would rather believe that Microsoft will make changes that will make Win8 more user friendly.

The saving grace to Microsoft is that corporations are as invested in MS Office as they are in Windows. They will be reluctant to embrace OpenOffice since they have invested in MS Office training so heavily. If they look for an alternative to Win8 it will probably be to stay with Win7 or migrate to Mac, so they can still use MS Office products.

I've heard that MS Office runs under WINE, but I doubt that corporate America is going to consider Linux workstations in the near future. There's no really good reason why they couldn't go to Linux workstations, but it would be a radical departure from what they're used to. Corporations don't do that unless they have to. Instead, I look for Apple to pick up any lost business from Win8.

I swear, Steve Ballmer is going to turn Microsoft into another large dumb corporation similar to IBM.


----------



## Kung

MS Office 2013 is a lot better than Windows 8 is. I've been running it for about 3 months now and it is VASTLY better. E.g., you can open a PDF in Word, edit it, and save it as a PDF (or Word document). At least it's a heck of a lot more useful.


----------



## calliemoonbeam

Thanks Kung! I didn't realize another version of Office was coming. I'm also upgrading that the first of the year and planned on the 2010 version. Is 2013 available to the public yet and if not do you know when it will be? 

Do you know if it still has the AutoCorrect and AutoText functions and the same capacity? I have thousands of shortcuts programmed into my current version and if not, I'll have to find a separate shortcut program.


----------



## Nevada

calliemoonbeam said:


> Thanks Kung! I didn't realize another version of Office was coming. I'm also upgrading that the first of the year and planned on the 2010 version. Is 2013 available to the public yet and if not do you know when it will be?
> 
> Do you know if it still has the AutoCorrect and AutoText functions and the same capacity? I have thousands of shortcuts programmed into my current version and if not, I'll have to find a separate shortcut program.


There's a preview available from Microsoft. Just Google for something like 'office 2013 preview' to find the site. I haven't see it myself. I'm using Office 2010.


----------



## calliemoonbeam

Thanks Nevada, will do! I'm still using the 2003 version, lol, (due to work constraints) so I'm expecting LOTS of changes.  I just hope I don't lose my shortcuts!


----------



## calliemoonbeam

Mutti said:


> Callie...get a piece of the stuff they put under rugs to keep them from skidding and place under keyboard.


Thanks Mutti! Sorry I didn't respond sooner, I missed your post. I've tried numerous things, but never thought of that, I'll try it!


----------



## RedDirt Cowgirl

Kung said:


> MS Office 2013 is a lot better than Windows 8 is. I've been running it for about 3 months now and it is VASTLY better. E.g., you can open a PDF in Word, edit it, and save it as a PDF (or Word document). At least it's a heck of a lot more useful.


This is the first I've heard of MS Office 2013 - have they change Word again? (I still think "ribbon" is slow and clumsy, besides a space eater. Change for change's sake. ) Doesn't Adobe still control PDF's?


----------



## Nevada

RedDirt Cowgirl said:


> This is the first I've heard of MS Office 2013 - have they change Word again? (I still think "ribbon" is slow and clumsy, besides a space eater. Change for change's sake. ) Doesn't Adobe still control PDF's?


Office 2013 isn't really released yet.

Adobe created the pdf file standard, but they don't control it. There are a number of pdf readers & creators that Adobe has no involvement with.


----------



## airotciv

I called my "Computer Guy" and asked him if I should upgrade to Windows 8. And the answer was "NO, why would you repalce something that's not broke and this is a Bad replacement." Now I have 1 computer that runs XP and the other runs Windows 7 and I still love XP the best.


----------



## fordy

...............Just wondering how long MS will continue to support Win7 IF Win8 turns into the big flop I think it will ? , fordy:shrug:


----------



## Nevada

fordy said:


> ...............Just wondering how long MS will continue to support Win7 IF Win8 turns into the big flop I think it will ? , fordy:shrug:


Windows 7 will be supported through January 14, 2020. We'll all be using something else by then anyway.


----------



## mikellmikell

I would bet supporting XP gets to be big business when MS stops supporting it. Our company just rolled out 30000 new notebooks in the US and they all have XP. I see big big business taking care of XP. They all say windows 7 under the XP sticker. They work FINE


----------



## Nevada

mikellmikell said:


> I would bet supporting XP gets to be big business when MS stops supporting it. Our company just rolled out 30000 new notebooks in the US and they all have XP. I see big big business taking care of XP. They all say windows 7 under the XP sticker. They work FINE


I'm not so sure that there will be a lot of commercial interest in XP after April, 2014. Windows 7 is stable, and software & hardware support for XP is on its way out. Since there is an acceptable Windows product with a long support life ahead I would rather think most Windows users will take that route.

XP will probably continue to be supported by "unofficial" (not Microsoft) sources, just like Windows 98 has been. Official support for Win98SE ended on 2006, but you can still get service packs, updates and hotfixes from this site.

Windows 98, 98 SP1, 98 SE + ME Updates, Patches + (Hot)Fixes

Someone will do the same for XP.


----------



## fishhead

I sincerely dislike Microsoft for this kind of stuff. It took a couple of years before Vista stopped crashing on my computer.


----------



## Nevada

It turns out that there are already a number of aftermarket start menus for Windows 8. If I can find one with the functionality I need then this could make Windows 8 tolerable.

I've installed the pokki start menu to see how I like it.

I have to say though, if an aftermarket fix is necessary to make Windows 8 tolerable, or even functional, then Microsoft needs to rethink their product.


----------



## calliemoonbeam

Nevada, please keep us updated on the aftermarket start menu and any specific kinks you've found out ways to go around, if you don't mind. I've been looking at computers, and I may have waited too long to upgrade, story of my life, lol. So far, every model I've been interested in comes with 8 preinstalled instead of 7! 

I know I could downgrade to 7, but I'd really like to not have to go to all that trouble with a brand new computer, plus time is going to be an issue. I'm also going to have about five sets of software to find, buy, get installed, and get the kinks worked out (not to mention learning all the new versions!), and then there's finding time with the hospital techs so they can do their thing with getting me set up in their VPN and making sure everything works. I'm exhausted just thinking about it, lol!

The good news is that without the hospital finally upgrading their software (after six years of me begging them) I would have lost my clients and had no work at all thanks to the new electronic medical record law, and now it looks like I might be even better off than before, yay!


----------



## Nevada

calliemoonbeam said:


> Nevada, please keep us updated on the aftermarket start menu and any specific kinks you've found out ways to go around, if you don't mind.


Pokki wasn't similar enough to the Win7 start menu for me, so I tried a few others. Specifically, Pokki didn't include some features that I like, such as control panel access. 

The one I like best is ViStart. It looks and works exactly like the Windows 7 start menu. You can get for free by googling for vistart.

Just a warning though, it installed some components I didn't want. That's probably from the vendor I downloaded it from, so be selective with your source. I might have missed something during the install where I could have opted out. At any rate I had to go to the programs & features menu in the control panel and remove the following two components.

* Sweet Bundle Installer
* SweetIM

Then I went into Firefox add-ons and removed the Sweet Toolbar. Finally, I set my home page back to google.com and all was fine.

I hate that so many companies bundle nasty software with their products, but I suppose everybody has to make a buck. In this case the start menu was worth the hassle. Hopefully you can find a download source that doesn't bundle nasty components.


----------



## calliemoonbeam

Let me ask your opinion...is 8 bad enough that maybe I should limit my choices to only computers with 7 on them? Or are all the issues with 8 worth working around? 

I know you mentioned previously that there will be support for 7 until 2020 and obviously we'll be using something by then. If we know 7 is good and 8 still has so many kinks to iron out, is it worth the hassle or should I just stick with 7? Thanks!


----------



## Nevada

calliemoonbeam said:


> Let me ask your opinion...is 8 bad enough that maybe I should limit my choices to only computers with 7 on them? Or are all the issues with 8 worth working around?
> 
> I know you mentioned previously that there will be support for 7 until 2020 and obviously we'll be using something by then. If we know 7 is good and 8 still has so many kinks to iron out, is it worth the hassle or should I just stick with 7? Thanks!


 As it stands today, I wouldn't install Windows 8 into a production setting. Not having a start menu is like tying an employees hands behind his back before starting work.

ViStart started doing something that used all my system resources. My computer became totally occupied doing something, but I couldn';t tell what. The system was too tied-up for me to open the task manager. I had to force the system down to get control again. I removed it. I'll have to try some other start menus.


----------



## watcher

I'm sure I'm not going to switch. I'm one of those clean desktop nuts. I have less than 10 icons on my desk top, everything else I access via START.


----------



## arabian knight

watcher said:


> I'm sure I'm not going to switch. I'm one of those clean desktop nuts. I have less than 10 icons on my desk top, everything else I access via START.


I have less then that I have Two. One says Macintosh HD. The other one is my pictures.
iMacs have what they call a "Dock" it can be positioned at either side or at the bottom. I have mine at the bottom.
That is where you open the Browser, get Email or something Apple calls "Launch Pad" LOL That is where you can click and icons will appear on the desktop.
And BTW Macs have no "Start Menu". LOL


----------



## calliemoonbeam

Wow, Nevada, that sounds worse and worse all the time, lol. Sorry you're having so many problems, but that cinches it for me. 

As you know, I work in a production environment, and that's how I get paid, by productivity not hourly, salary, etc. Anything that slows that down or makes it more difficult is NOT a good thing!

Plus I'm also a "clean desktop" user, lol. I have a total of five icons, and one is a shortcut to IE, and one is my recycle bin. 

I'd like to just have a computer built to my specifications, but with the time constraints I'm going to be stuck with a ready-to-go model. I guess I'll just have to narrow my search to only the ones with 7, although my two favorites so far both have 8, darn it, lol. 

I'm waiting to actually purchase until Black Friday, hoping I might just catch a good deal. If not, then I'll do a regular purchase after it's over.

The problems with 8 do reinforce my own preference, though, for not going with anything too new until they've had time to get the kinks worked out. I just can't afford downtime in my line of work. 

Thanks again so much! I know I can always count on you guys for great advice!


----------



## Kung

Nevada said:


> It turns out that there are already a number of aftermarket start menus for Windows 8. If I can find one with the functionality I need then this could make Windows 8 tolerable.
> 
> I've installed the pokki start menu to see how I like it.
> 
> I have to say though, if an aftermarket fix is necessary to make Windows 8 tolerable, or even functional, then Microsoft needs to rethink their product.


I paid for the one by Stardock. Yeah, I paid for it (though I got Windows 8 for little to nothing) but it is by far the closest to the Windows 7 menu.


----------



## Kung

calliemoonbeam said:


> Let me ask your opinion...is 8 bad enough that maybe I should limit my choices to only computers with 7 on them? Or are all the issues with 8 worth working around?
> 
> I know you mentioned previously that there will be support for 7 until 2020 and obviously we'll be using something by then. If we know 7 is good and 8 still has so many kinks to iron out, is it worth the hassle or should I just stick with 7? Thanks!


I *believe* that if you buy a computer with Windows 8 on it, you're allowed the choice to revert to 7.

IMHO - if you're an IT guy and know how to futz with computers, and can work around the idiosyncrasies of 8, then 8's fine; otherwise, go with 7.


----------



## mnn2501

If they don't change things every few years Microsoft wouldn't make the Big $$ they want.
Frankly a 64 bit XP would be my ideal O.S. -- I've used 7 for a couple years and its not that great IMHO for what the way I work on file systems.


----------



## Nevada

mnn2501 said:


> If they don't change things every few years Microsoft wouldn't make the Big $$ they want.


While that's of course true, if they change things to the extent that it motivates customers to look elsewhere for a product then they're shooting themselves in the foot.


----------



## mnn2501

Nevada said:


> While that's of course true, if they change things to the extent that it motivates customers to look elsewhere for a product then they're shooting themselves in the foot.


The Business world is too invested in MS for productivity, it'll never happen.


----------



## arabian knight

mnn2501 said:


> The Business world is too invested in MS for productivity, it'll never happen.


With todays Mac's you can Run Windows on them.


----------



## Nevada

arabian knight said:


> With todays Mac's you can Run Windows on them.


Well, if you're going to run Windows then run Windows on a PC. I don't see how business would have an advantage by running Windows on a Mac. My point about Mac's was that Microsoft makes a version of MS Office for Mac's, so at least the applications would still be consistent with most business standards.


----------



## akane

We get windows 8 free so my programming instructor installed it on a laptop and then spent the next week modifying it to his liking. In the end he found he had made it pretty much the same as windows 7 and saw no point in running an inferior copy of windows 7 so deleted it.


----------



## redwall

a mac is a pc now both use the sam tech. just like a linx is a pc

windows 8 in useless with out touch its just a bloated 7 if you do not have the new gizmos.


----------



## Nevada

I'm wondering if heads are starting to roll at Microsoft over Windows 8.

Microsoft&#39;s Windows chief Sinofsky steps down - Business on NBCNews.com


----------



## blooba

Just for everyone's info: Retailers are getting good deals on Win 7 computers and bringing them in for the holidays. Look for good deals on Black Friday and on. 

I agree with NOT upgrading to Win 8 unless you get a touchscreen, and then i would seriously think twice.


----------



## Kung

blooba said:


> Just for everyone's info: Retailers are getting good deals on Win 7 computers and bringing them in for the holidays. Look for good deals on Black Friday and on.
> 
> I agree with NOT upgrading to Win 8 unless you get a touchscreen, and then i would seriously think twice.


Eh, it depends. Did I customize the HECK out of my Windows 8 install? You'd better believe it. LOL But am I going to remove it? No, because I've already gotten troublecalls related to it.

In other words, I'd better know the product if I'm going to provide support...and that, right there, is an excellent reason why I personally will stay with Windows 8 on my personal laptop.


----------



## frank b

On windows 8, is windows defender the same as the virus protector microsoft essentials? I think I accidently turned it off. How do I turn it back on.

So far, I am ok with windows 8. There is a lot of programs I do not use and I am still learning. Is the Norton virus protection a good program and should I renew it after the trial period? Also, someone told me there is a program install that gives you the same start up page as windows 7 with the start button. Anyone know of this?


----------

