# ideas for artisian well overflow



## shdybrady (Aug 26, 2011)

We had a well and septic guy to come out and he said we had an artisian well . It has been over flowing for months now and hasnt slowed down. I have a few solutions to fix the problem but, I wanted to see if there was a way to harness the power through a micro turbine?


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## Harry Chickpea (Dec 19, 2008)

Depends on the flow rate and pressure, but yes, it should be possible.


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## TnAndy (Sep 15, 2005)

Unless it's shooting several feet in the air, probably not. But it would make a great source for a pond.


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## jwal10 (Jun 5, 2010)

Is it a cased well? Needs capped and check the pressure. I have a gravity fed spring, plenty of flow and pressure to run a small turbine from the 2" pipe....James


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## Gray Wolf (Jan 25, 2013)

Sweet! Wish we had that. 

Micro hydro will work if you have a few feet of drop between the source and where you would place the unit. More drop = more power. More volume = more power. Even if it is just a wee bit of power, it runs 24/7 and the power will add up. Much better than solar or wind as it is always working.

Go to Backwoods Solar and other sites to learn more.

Here is a clip from their site to get you going.


"If you are blessed to have flowing water on your property, you may benefit from a micro&#8208;hydro system that can provide power 24 hours a day.Water turbines steadily charge 12, 24, or 48 volt batteries, working around the clock. Compare this with solar modules that are in sunshine for, at best, six full&#8208;power hours a day, and that&#8217;s just on sunny days. A hydro generator producing 10 amperes around the clock matches the usable power generated by over 40 amps of solar modules. Micro&#8208;hydro is one of the most cost effective and reliable forms of renewable energy, but planning and site considerations can make the difference between success and failure."


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## shdybrady (Aug 26, 2011)

I am having problems getting an accurate pressure reading because there is an over flow pipe that never runs dry. Then on top of that it is over flowing at the well case. I will post a video tomorrow but the well is about 20' above the creek. So with the overflow pressure and the drop it may be enough to make it worth while. I have considered making a funnel that would make the overflow and creek run together turning the turbine. Neither really seems to have a ton of velocity but maybe together it might be worth it.


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## Gray Wolf (Jan 25, 2013)

20' of head (drop) is enough to make it work just fine depending on flow rate. 

Next thing to do is find out about how many gallons a minute your well delivers. Do whatever it takes so that you can route all the water into a 5 gallon bucket and time how many buckets per minute you get. Or how many minutes per bucket. Hopefully it will buckets per minute.

Also take a look at your site and figure out how much additional head you might have if you piped the water parallel to the stream to pick up more elevation differece between the well and turbine. Appropriately sized plastic pipe is pretty cheap and might make a big difference in output.


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## Gray Wolf (Jan 25, 2013)

Forgot to mention it. 

Pressure out of the well is probably fairly low so don't worry about it for now. Pressure would be a nice helper but it is the flow itself that matters more in the decision making process to persue hydro, in my mind anyway. And my mind is a scary thing.....


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## SolarGary (Sep 8, 2005)

Hi,

The power that you can generate with a good quality hydro turbine is:

Power = (Flow in GPM)(Vertical drop in ft) / 8

So, if your well can flow at 20 gpm, and you can get the equivalent of 20 ft of vertical drop, then it should generate (20)(20)/8 = 50 watts (this is 50 watts 24/7 -- about 1.2 KWH a day).

If can convert a pressure reading on the well in psi to ft of head by dividing the pressure in psi by 0.433 -- stated another way, you get about 2 ft of head for each psi. But, using the static, no flow pressure might be optimistic if the pressure drops as the flow increases.

I think Andy is probably right -- that the odds of getting worthwhile power are not to great, but you need to measure the flow and pressure to find out.

Gary


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## doingitmyself (Jul 30, 2013)

If the power idea doesn't pan out you can always bottle it as sell it as Artisan Spring Water! Not being silly, depending on where you live that could be excellent water and people will pay for "sweet water" . Look at what they are buying now, and its just filtered and enhanced tap water. It might be something to think about.

Brady's Best Artisan Coolers 

Good Luck!!


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## ace admirer (Oct 5, 2005)

Andy says is correct.. 
you will need water shooting about 5 feet up to be useful. because of inefficiencies. some of the formulas stated do not account for inefficiencies. figure 40% lost at wheel or turbine, 24% lost if belt, or chain, alittle less if gear drive, about 10% loss at the generator, then line losses, so a lot of water or pressure is needed to overcome the efficiencies of the energy transfer. 

20 head is only 8.6 psi, that would be a mixed flow turbine (Francis turbine) or very tall overshot waterwheel which can probable be frabricated for around $10,000 or so.

How many small hydro units do you really see actually putting out power? very few.


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## Gray Wolf (Jan 25, 2013)

Don't give up on hydro until you have figured out how many gallons per minute you're getting and the maximum drop you can create by piping parallel to your stream to the lowest discharge point available. THEN calculations can be done. You may well have a killer opportunity. Or not.

Pressure at wellhead would be nice but the real deal is that you have a free, constant, flow of water 'x' feet above a discharge point. 

Not having to divert stream flows or needing a ton of permits to pull water out of a stream is huge. Permits and screening trash out of stream flows hurt many/most micro-hydro systems, or so I've heard.


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## SolarGary (Sep 8, 2005)

ace admirer said:


> Andy says is correct..
> you will need water shooting about 5 feet up to be useful. because of inefficiencies. some of the formulas stated do not account for inefficiencies. figure 40% lost at wheel or turbine, 24% lost if belt, or chain, alittle less if gear drive, about 10% loss at the generator, then line losses, so a lot of water or pressure is needed to overcome the efficiencies of the energy transfer.
> 
> 20 head is only 8.6 psi, that would be a mixed flow turbine (Francis turbine) or very tall overshot waterwheel which can probable be frabricated for around $10,000 or so.
> ...


I think your numbers are a bit pessimistic.
A lot of the small turbines are direct drive, so they don't have any belt or chain losses, my recollection is that the turbines are about 80% efficient, line losses are small if the line is sized properly.

The formula that uses (ft of head)(flow rate)/ 8 to 10 is for real operating systems with losses taken into account.

The reason you don't see a lot of small hydro is that not many people have a good enough flow with a good enough drop to make it work, but if you have that its probably the most cost effective form of renewable power.

What the op needs to do is measure the resource, and see if he has something that is worth going ahead with.

Gary


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## ace admirer (Oct 5, 2005)

how much head are required for those 80% turbines? the peltons have eff. in the 90%, but require heads of 270 feet to develop those eff.

at 20 feet head its a mixed flow turbine, francis or banki type. how much for a shaft driven generator off a francis, the foundation for it, the house to protect the gear? about $40,000 
the little plastic wheel driving a automobile alternator type unit. they need more than 20 feet head to develop anything near the quoted eff of 78%.

even the best made overshot waterwheel has an eff of 72%, but how many people have the ability to make one of those? 

i am being a realistic.
i have to be ,,,i teach alternate energies at a college using text books written(by others) on the subjects. i have to fight off the "optimist" every day that don't even know of the second law of thermodynamics. show me.....not on utube, not the keely motor company, but a unit i can actually touch, like the dozen or so i and my crews rebuilt in the 80's and early 90's. after that, i will be neither pessimistic nor optimistic, i will still be a realistic 

to give false hope (non scientific) of such a technology that has been studied for the last 1300 years, for someone to throw money at is evil 

But more information on the particular site and at least four people here can run the figures on. but be warned, didn't the last plumbing job you did, cost about twice what you thought it would?


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## Jim-mi (May 15, 2002)

If you are among the very few to have such a beautiful source of water like you say you do, the first thing I would do is get it plumbed nicely to my home and also spend some bucks to solar heat some of it.


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## artificer (Feb 26, 2007)

$40k to install a less than 100watt micro hydro system? 

There are already commercial, put your hands on them, systems available. From $500 for a cheap inport outputing AC power, to $1,850 for a Harris system.

For a sub 100 watt system, you don't need extensive foundations and building. A treated post in the ground to mount the turbine to, and a Rubbermaid tub for shelter is all you need. Yes, its temporary/short lived, but how many $10 tubs can you buy for $30,000? This is especially true with the artesian well. Clean input water, with direct pipe coupling to the well casing.

For the true DIY type person, you could try the 5 gal bucket micro hydro generator.

Like everyone else has said... everything depends on the flow out of the well. If I had 20ft and 20gpm of flow at my property, I would be willing to invest a bit on a small hydro system. Even if I only made 10 watts, it 24/7, rain or shine.

Here's a thread from another forum with someones low tech system.

Michael


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