# 765 yd shot 7mm Mag



## hunter63 (Jan 4, 2005)

This is one reason I like the 7 mm mag.
Lucky guy!
Ram @ 765 yds, first time shooting a gun, once in a life time hunt.


http://www.gunwerks.com/Testimonials/Videos/Dustin-Lym---Wyoming-Bighorn-Sheep-at-765-Yards.aspx


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## JJ Grandits (Nov 10, 2002)

I saw the video but find in kind of hard to believe. An uphill shot like that has more then luck involved. I wish It told more about the rifle, the scope and the load. How many feet does a 7mm mag drop at 765yds?


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## Ed Norman (Jun 8, 2002)

Uphill or downhill means the actual shot is shorter, since gravity works on the bullet only along the horizontal distance. Mountain winds are the hardest part up there. 

The way I heard it, the guy had never shot that rifle before, but he had shot before. He was left handed and that rifle was a right handed model. Plus they said it killed a ram a few days earlier. Must be the loaner for the outfitter. 

It was a good shot, looks like he buzzed the spine the way it dropped. There was blood just at the base of the neck when they got up there.


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

> How many feet does a 7mm mag drop at 765yds?


That depends on a lot of *variables *such as bullet weight and ballistic coefficient, muzzle velocity, and the range at which it's "zeroed"


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## JJ Grandits (Nov 10, 2002)

That's my point. I have guns I am evil with, but its from lots of practice with them.


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## tyusclan (Jan 1, 2005)

I know he said they'd killed two sheep at over 700 yards with that gun, but I have to seriously question the judgement of a guide that lets a client make a 700+ yard shot his first time shooting that rifle. I know he hit the ram, and you can't argue with success, but it still seems like a bad idea to me.


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## Murray in ME (May 10, 2002)

tyusclan said:


> I know he said they'd killed two sheep at over 700 yards with that gun, but I have to seriously question the judgement of a guide that lets a client make a 700+ yard shot his first time shooting that rifle. I know he hit the ram, and you can't argue with success, but it still seems like a bad idea to me.


I agree 100%. I think it was irresponsible and unethical. Personally, I think that's to far for anyone to be shooting at an animal. Especially for someone who'd never shot the rifle before. The margin for error is just to great. It bothered me to hear the guide say "Just aim for the middle of him." It was only luck that that was an instant kill and not a gut-shot ram running off, never to be found.


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## mdharris68 (Sep 28, 2006)

I took a thorough look around the website, and after seeing the gun design and scope they use, I would let my 10 year old take that shot with that gun. The guy may have never shot that gun before, but that gun/scope/bullet combo was designed to kill at that range with no guesswork.

I thought I would add that I understand the part about taking an unethical shot, and that I would not recommend it either if you were not an experienced shooter, and you were using your normal hunting weapon. That being said, I am trying to build a 1000 yrd 30-06 at the moment that will be used for coyote/varmits and I may decide to go with a flatter shooting magnum if this one does not work out. I would rather hunt my own big game a whole lot closer just for the thrill of the hunt.


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## Murray in ME (May 10, 2002)

I looked at the system as well. In my opinion, there are just to many variables for it to be responsible to be shooting at game at that distance, regardless of marketing that says it is foolproof. There are to many ways for the shot to go wrong. Trigger manipulation and wind conditions at the target being two of the most serious that come to mind. That being said, obviously, that type of shot can be made. It's up to every hunter to set their own limits based on their capabilities and what they feel is appropriate.


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

I wonder how many others took shots like that who missed or wounded the animal
They wouldnt post those videos


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## Ed Norman (Jun 8, 2002)

Murray in ME said:


> I agree 100%. I think it was irresponsible and unethical. Personally, I think that's to far for anyone to be shooting at an animal. Especially for someone who'd never shot the rifle before. The margin for error is just to great. It bothered me to hear the guide say "Just aim for the middle of him." It was only luck that that was an instant kill and not a gut-shot ram running off, never to be found.


Gut shot, or a leg busted. I bet that is a sad thing for a bighorn to have. A deer can get along on 3 legs, it would be a death sentence for a ram.

I've found everyone shoot a rifle slightly different. I can sight in perfect and hand it to you and you might shoot a bit off center. It's all in how hard you hold it against your shoulder and the rest, etc. 

Plus it looked like a fairly simple hike to the trees in front of them, then they could end up right below the slide with an easy 200 yard shot. 

Aim for the middle of him made it sound like they wanted him wounded somewhere first, then they could get him killed easier.


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## JJ Grandits (Nov 10, 2002)

So what was the rifle and scope?


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## hunter63 (Jan 4, 2005)

JJ Grandits said:


> So what was the rifle and scope?


Here is the rifle, from what I can gather:


http://www.gunwerks.com/Products/Gunwerks-LR-1000-Shooting-System.aspx


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## Ed Norman (Jun 8, 2002)

I was poking around reading about the scope. I found this post which matches what I was thinking:

http://www.longrangehunting.com/forums/f18/huskemaw-5-20-lr-rifle-scope-32559/index4.html



> I've talked with some local customers of Huskemaw and they have a scarry confidence that the next deer that walks within 1000yds is going to be in their freezer and that it's "as easy as pie". The scarry part? They had not fired their rifles beyond 300yds! I believe this is a direct result of the TV show and videos. This issue was also explained to me by the BOTW guy. To get the TV shows aired they must be entertaining and it's difficult to have lots of info and remain so. I think these guys have a good product and wish them the best but I would never recommend them to an inexperienced shooter.


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## hunter63 (Jan 4, 2005)

Ed, I hear ya, I wouldn't take a shot like that.
Well sighted in rifles generally shoot better than I do anyway.......and I have been shooting a while, I just wouldn't take that chance.
I don't need to kill anything that bad.
Was cool to see what rifle can do, though.


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## Madsaw (Feb 26, 2008)

I have a freind that makes gun barrels. They from time to time make guns to. I seen one of theirs that is in 338 laupa. I am not sure what they are topped with but they test them out to 1000 yds. These guns are human hunting guns. Plus they also make competion 1000 yd guns too.
My longest was int eh area of 500 yds on a flat calm prairie dog town. Also it took a ranging shoot to get the prairie dog at that distance. My longest shot on big game was a deer with a muzzle loader. That was around 190 yds.
Bob


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## denaliguide (Aug 30, 2008)

is all grandstanding and institutional arrogance. I think it also shows the tradeoffs we suffer technicals against skills.

I am afraid this may lead newer folks to think they really dont have to learn to track or stalk, or develop real outdoor skills, just go buy the latest outfit, find a guide willing to take you and BANG your a nimrod.

Just not for me. I had probably the longest range gun, my .338 Win with handloads, point-blanked for game no smaller than caribou out to 325 yds.
Honestly, under field conditons scope or not, that is as far as I could readily think I could shoot, after humping my stuff through the field or for getting a hasty shot, which so often is the case, dont even talk about heavy cover !!

Surprised me when I was hitting 6" targets off handed with iron sights on my 6.5 Swede and SKS, but I dont think I'd push it, and if I wanted to eat regular, off my game, I'd be looking for closer shots. 

This kind of shooting is a wonder to me, but then again not for me. A number of guys were shooting .50 BMG's and dropping moose regular at 1000 yrds, but that is not hunting in any real sense in my book. The satisfaction comes there from making a good shot, but not from hunting up the game.
Guess my day is come and gone as it saddens me to see this.





hunter63 said:


> Ed, I hear ya, I wouldn't take a shot like that.
> Well sighted in rifles generally shoot better than I do anyway.......and I have been shooting a while, I just wouldn't take that chance.
> I don't need to kill anything that bad.
> Was cool to see what rifle can do, though.


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## Paquebot (May 10, 2002)

If you've got the right rifle, that shot isn't that tough. The current confirmed sniper kill was by a Canadian soldier in Afghanistan in 2002 at 2,657 yards, 1.51 miles. That broke the long-standing record of 2,347 yards by a US Marine in Vietnam in 1967.

Martin


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## JJ Grandits (Nov 10, 2002)

Iv'e shot three deer at less the 30 ft. I guess I can't hunt as good as those long range guys.


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## Murray in ME (May 10, 2002)

Paquebot said:


> If you've got the right rifle, that shot isn't that tough. The current confirmed sniper kill was by a Canadian soldier in Afghanistan in 2002 at 2,657 yards, 1.51 miles. That broke the long-standing record of 2,347 yards by a US Marine in Vietnam in 1967.
> 
> Martin


There's a huge difference between ethical hunting and military sniping. In my opinion, it's not even a fair comparison.

Snipers are extremely well trained in very long range shooting. They learn all the science behind making such shots on a regular basis. Most hunters aren't. Snipers are also generally very familiar with the weapon they're using. Not doing as the guy in the op did, taking a 765 yard shot at game with a rifle he's never fired.


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## Paquebot (May 10, 2002)

I'm neither condoning or condemning the shot but pointing out that such a shot does not have to be luck. With today's modern hunting gadgetry, one can easily calculate distance to a single yard. Exact figures can be available for windage, elevation, gravity, etc. Just as a sniper relies on the info given by the spotter, a reputable and knowledgeable guide should have all of the data available for his client to be successful. I would believe that any one of us here would be able to make that shot if we had ever used a scoped rifle before. If the scope were set to the precise data, all we would have to do is center the cross-hairs and pull the trigger. Personally, in this case, I would have given more credit to the person who set up the rifle. The laws of physics are very precise and he knew how to apply them just as snipers and their spotters must do. 

Martin


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## fishhead (Jul 19, 2006)

I think it was unethical to take that shot.

I shot a big buck at 400 yards with my .243. It ran less than 50 yards. BUT......I could have just as easily gut shot the poor thing.

I shot for the head thinking that if I missed it would be a clean miss. I shot 4 times from a tree stand as it walked slowly across a bog. I hit it in the liver and fortunately it bled out quickly.

I won't ever take a long shot like that again.


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## mtman (Sep 2, 2004)

i know the co. there setups syart at 10,000 dollors they make that kind of shot all the time


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## Ed Norman (Jun 8, 2002)

A laser rangefinder and a good scope make elevation solutions simple. Even the shooting angle uphill or downhill is easy to solve. The problem, and it is a very big problem, is the wind. I've seen the flags every 100 yards at Camp Perry pointing in different directions on the 1000 yard range. That is flat ground. In the mountains, you can be in a dead calm and 50 yards away, a wind shear is making a gale.

I ran the numbers for a Berger 168 gr VLD hunting bullet at 2750 fps. I used a BC of .617, air temp of 39, and elevation of 8000 ft. 

If he had a wind meter and it read 10mph crosswind, the bullet would drift 29 inches at 775 yards. No problem.

But if the wind was blowing 20 just in front of him and his meter, the drift would be 59 inches. Now you shot behind him or blew off his bottom jaw. 

And say a little gust to 16 mph came along. 47 inches of windage. All the while you and your meter are planning on 29 inches. Up there where the sheep live, crazy currents happen all day. In the morning the cool air is flowing downhill, in the afternoon it is going up, usually following the ravines and contours you are trying to shoot across. And maybe where you are, the wind is in your face, but 50 yards out, it turns into a 90 degree crosswind. 

$10,000 rifles are wonderful things but the bullets still follow all those pesky physics rules. 

Here's the calculator I used, it always comes up 308 for some reason, change the values as needed. 
http://www.biggameinfo.com/index.aspx?page=/balcalc.ascx


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## hunter63 (Jan 4, 2005)

Cool, link, thanks


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## Paquebot (May 10, 2002)

Until I was 17, never thought of taking many shots at squirrels beyond 100' with my single-shot Remington 514. Then the USMC put an M1 in my hands and told me to hit a tiny black dot 500 yards away with a peep sight! Modern military equipment is making almost everything that we're used to look like squirrel guns and it eventually filters out to the public. In Iraq, in 2003, a two-man British sniper team made simultaneous kills at 941 yards. That's not far but the rifles had to be aimed exactly 56' to the left to allow for bending in the wind. 

7mm ammo, incidentally, is rated effective from 900 to 1100 meters. 
Martin


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## Ed Norman (Jun 8, 2002)

If those Brits were using their L96 in 7.62mm, and shooting a good slick bullet like a Sierra 168 MatchKing, to blow 56 feet would require a 73 mph 90 degree crosswind. From the reports of Iraq I've seen, blowing sand wouldn't let you see 1000 yards in a 73 mph breeze. Of course, reporters have been known to be wrong before. 

1000 yards matches with iron sights are common and the X ring gets hit plenty of times.


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## backwoodsman (Jan 21, 2010)

X rings/targets/targets of war are alot different then a living breathing game animal that doesnt "have" to be killed or pursued and deserves better treatment then a terrorist in my opinion. A shot like that isnt ethical in sport hunting. Few of us could make a shot like that with the best rifle and gear out there. It takes a very steady hand to start with. Alot of the problems we hunters are facing with the public and our image with the public come from stunts like this. We can hit a small target with a 75mm cannon at what 3,000 yards too. Should that be a legal and ethical weapon to hunt with? Of course not. I have to wonder how many times that shot could be repeated before it became a gutshot and lost ram? If we as sportsmen/sportswomen and hunters dont start speaking out against this kind of stuff then one day maybe fairly soon we will all be hunting from a couch with a video game telling tales how it use to be when we could actualy get out in the woods to hunt. Dont think for a minute PETA and their ilk wouldnt use this to their advantage if at all possible. The days of slobs and game hogs has to end. Alot of the problems come from the trophy mentality too. Everyone wants the biggest buck, bull, boar,ram etc. Alot of our fellow hunters have forgotten in their quest for the biggest that its the thrill of the chase, the hunt itself, the beauty of nature that should be the quest/enjoyment then the actual pulling of the trigger or releasing the arrow at the animal to be harvested. This is why alot of hunters and the general public condemn "canned" hunts. Wheres the sport in stalking close to the animal when its in a fence? Same scenario with it sitting on the next mountain range a mile over from you and you've got a rifle/gun thats got no business in the sporting field? That turns us from hunters into nothing but killers. If a person needs to prove their shooting prowess or enjoys extreme long range shooting then punch paper or ventilate cans.


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## JJ Grandits (Nov 10, 2002)

Excellent post. I could not agree with you more. It does no honor to the animal hunted.


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## Murray in ME (May 10, 2002)

Very well said backwoodsman.


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