# Public Schools Killing Creativity?



## Vashti (Dec 22, 2006)

I just watched this wonderful video. It's about 15 minutes, so grab a cup of joe, chamomile tea or hot cocoa and watch this man. He's just amazing! I loved his speaking style, and wish wholeheartedly that I could have seen him in person, or that this video went on much, much longer! The video is of Sir Ken Robinson at a TED conference.

http://www.ted.com/index.php/talks/view/id/66


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## Ernie (Jul 22, 2007)

Interesting! 

While I would imagine that public schools kill creativity, as does any level of institutionalized education, I think there's an undue amount of importance placed upon child creativity and 'creative thinking'.

Creativity is an awesome human tool and one of the most important gifts we have been given. However, fostering creativity before you've given a child the wide range of resources by which to USE that creativity does no good.

So our problem, as a society, is how to give them all the mental resources ... the building blocks if you will ... without squashing the creativity they will need to make use of those resources. I struggle with this one daily.


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## heather (May 13, 2002)

Ernie said:


> fostering creativity before you've given a child the wide range of resources by which to USE that creativity does no good.


well, I'd have to respectfully disagree with that

if you foster creativity in a very young child, you'd be amazed at what they will surprise you with

Creativity doesn't always have to be USEFUL either - it can be artsy or fun - it can use energy and provide exercise - it can teach limits, etc....doesn't always have to culminate in a THING that's USEFUL

just some thoughts -

Now I"m going to get my cup of coffee & watch the video!


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## PromisedLand (Nov 20, 2006)

:hobbyhors


heather said:


> well, I'd have to respectfully disagree with that
> 
> if you foster creativity in a very young child, you'd be amazed at what they will surprise you with
> 
> ...



I agree with this take on "useless" creativity. The other day my kids wanted to do an "experiment" so I gave them a mishmash of ingredients and they mixed something involving baking soda, vinegar, cornstarch, salt and grapeseed oil. The mixture was a milky white color. Then they decided to freeze it. I thought to myself, "this will teach them that salt water doesn't freeze." This morning we discovered that their experiment has turned a lovely shade of violet!

What a great opportunity for us all to learn something! (If someone could enlighten me as to what chemical reaction has occurred, that would be awesome!) Anyway, just an example of how "useless" creativity opened a door that structured classroom "learning" would have stifled.


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## Ernie (Jul 22, 2007)

I don't think either of the examples provided of child's creativity fall into the category of what I call "useless". That's a child using their brain to figure stuff out ... very important in my book.

I guess what I was referring to was the method of instruction I occasionally see where they just turn the child loose to color, play games, etc. without ever teaching them anything meaningful. 

Consider that creativity produced the combustion engine. However without the mechanical knowledge of metallurgy, physics, and chemistry then that creativity would have had no foundation to build upon. 

Have I been more clear this time around?


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## heather (May 13, 2002)

Ernie said:


> I guess what I was referring to was the method of instruction I occasionally see where they just turn the child loose to color, play games, etc. without ever teaching them anything meaningful.
> 
> ..........
> 
> Have I been more clear this time around?


yes, you've been more clear, but I still disagree  

I think a child ALWAYS learns when you "turn them loose"

Yes, I give my children lots of instruction, but I also let them simply play sometimes & they end up learning! They learn individually, they learn together, they even TEACH each other 

simple PLAY is very important!

And they are doing away with it in school -
They are doing away with recess, gym, etc....
Every moment is getting more scheduled -
yuck!


edited to add: my children don't watch TV or play video games - if that were the type of 'play' I were turning them loose to, then you're right, they might not learn too much


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## PromisedLand (Nov 20, 2006)

edited to add: my children don't watch TV or play video games - if that were the type of 'play' I were turning them loose to, then you're right, they might not learn too much[/QUOTE]


Then again, who would consider this "creative"?


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## Cheryl in SD (Apr 22, 2005)

My bil told me once that if he could get all his college students to be 5 again they would learn science so much easier. His take on the "scientific process" is that it is simply the reteaching of what every 3-5 yo will do naturally if allowed to explore the world around them. 

You don't need the formal instruction of metallurgy, physics, and chemistry to build a combustion engine, you need curiosity and the materials to create something. My dh never studied any on those things, but some of his inventions are standard on some pieces of mechanical equipment. He acquired the knowledge of those principles "playing" in his dad's shop. He did attend school, but that was back in the day when school only took 6 hours and the rest of the day and lasted from Labor Day to Memorial Day with days off in between. There was still time in the day/year to get to explore unsupervised and learn how things work first hand. 

One of the hardest things I have had to learn as a home school parent is to keep my hands off and allow them to explore and learn without me. My goal is to provide materials and time. Sometimes the mess drives me nuts, but how else will they get to find out what they can do as opposed to what I can teach them to do.


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## Ernie (Jul 22, 2007)

Hmmm. I guess what I'm trying to say is that there needs to be a healthy mix. I like the unstructured learning time the best, but I know that my children, being little humans and not having fallen far from the Ernie-tree, are not going to go pick up their Latin primer for fun. So there's unstructured time and then there's structured time.

I don't worry about there not being enough time for creativity. My kids find it wherever we are and whatever they are doing.


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## Cheryl in SD (Apr 22, 2005)

Ernie said:


> Hmmm. I guess what I'm trying to say is that there needs to be a healthy mix. I like the unstructured learning time the best, but I know that my children, being little humans and not having fallen far from the Ernie-tree, are not going to go pick up their Latin primer for fun. So there's unstructured time and then there's structured time.
> 
> I don't worry about there not being enough time for creativity. My kids find it wherever we are and whatever they are doing.


I think we can all agree there. We do have structured time, but try to keep it to just long enough to get a THOROUGH grasp of the basics/building blocks and leave the rest for self directed learning.


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## PromisedLand (Nov 20, 2006)

Off the top of my head, the only thing I can think of that could truly stifle creativity is the designer kid's room filled with every new hot toy and video game imaginable. I used to clean houses in California and some of these rooms amazed me with how neat-as-a pin they were kept all the time. It was hard to believe real kids lived there. The rest of the house would be kept so immaculate, I actually had at least one dad tell me the kids were not allowed to play in the living room.


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## christij (Mar 5, 2006)

I thought it was cleverly delivered. One of my faviorite parts with the part about ADD.


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## WindowOrMirror (Jan 10, 2005)

I loved the speech, but I also think that we need to be reasonable and know that we are prearing kids to live in a world that has rules... we may not like or agree with all of the rules of the game, but it is incumbent upon us to help the child learn skills that will help them in the world they will inherit. This means not just rewarding what the child is good at, but also bringing them up to some minimum level of competence in the things they really hate (and are necessary) as well.

R


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## Vashti (Dec 22, 2006)

I do agree with you WOM, but I've noticed that my kids in public school are routinely forced to follow some unnecessary regimine. For instance, for halloween, my daughter's class each made stand-up witch decorations. My dd wanted to make her's unique, without a long nose, with pretty flowing hair, etc. The teacher forced her to make hers just like all the others or she would get a bad grade for the day. 

My 15 yo son has had some similar experiences too. Not just with art, but with writing practice. They're asked to write about their Thanksgiving every year. This year was a bad year for my kiddos because their dad refused to see them. He asked if he could use the writing practice to write about something else, or even to write about something other than family at Thanksgiving, but the teacher wouldn't allow it. 

Oft times their asked to perform some function along with the other students in the class that would be inhanced if they were allowed some kind of freedom of expression. This is simply not allowed in their school at all. I find that very sad, and my children find it frustrating.


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## Goat Servant (Oct 26, 2007)

Vashti that is very sad, that the teacher could not see past the underlying problem and find a way around it by saying, "Oh, ok, would you like to write about ______ instead?" Better yet, ask what they would like to write about. 
This is the kind of box that stifles creativity....someone (usually the teacher) who is not sensitive to the child's needs when it it obvious. 
Isnt this what education is? I realize there are times it cannot be bent,
but it sounded to me like this was some sort of creative writing assignment that happened to coincide with Thanksgiving..hence teacher stuck to her original assignment. But then again sometimes they learn great stuff about themselves by doing what they don't want to do. A creative child will find a way around or thru it and still make the grade.
Personally,the halloween incident turns my stomach, the way your dd was not allowed to dress as she saw fit.


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## Karen (Apr 17, 2002)

Great video! 

I think there is a difference in "competence" and creativity. I view it as we simply no longer allow our children to just be children. We almost demand they grow up too fast and assume the position of "young adults" way too early.

This is exactly why we have so many college graduates that have no clue how to live on their own; pay their bills; or are skilled at the art of conversation, etc. 

We pound academics into them and force continual responsibilities on them. Then when they get out on their own, they are just not mature enough to deal with the real world because they never had the opportunity to just "go out and play and be a kid". They view their freedom as their opportunity to do as they please, rather than to settle into responsibility. They view going out on their own as simply another phase of life. 

Years ago, we allowed our children to play and be children. No child went to school before they were 5 or 6. There were no pre-schools; rather they were nursery schools. It was all creative play. Kindergarten wasn't for reading and writing, it was to learn your colors, the alphabet, and art skills. You started reading in 1st grade because you had a very solid basis and had the time to mature to the point of being ready to read. You couldn't wait to learn to read! Everyone had recess right up until they went to high school. School years were shorter and academics were looser with emphasis on reading, writing, and arithmetic -- the things you "really need" in day-to-day life. Gosh, you never even heard the word "math" until you were ready to go to college, you did "arithmetic"; math was big time stuff! You didn't start preparing for college in 5th and 6th grades; you did that your Jr. and Sr. year of high school. You looked toward being an adult with pride and enthusiasm -- and with responsibility.

Those generations grew up understanding what becoming an adult was. They were able to sow their oats when younger and became ready for the real world. They grew up with respect of others and other's property. They grew up with intelligence and in the ability to work together for a common goal, rather than everybody for themselves. They also maintained their creativeness and the ability to "think" creative in the work place.

In other words, if we give children the grace to be children and, not force them into academics and society before they are ready, they will mature into adults who possess maturity, confidence, and responsibility -- but yet, still be able to maintain their creativity, because it has not been "bred" out of them. Creativity in children almost seems nowadays to be considered a waste. It's only applicable if it is used in sophisticated forms of art or music.


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