# poormans transfer switch



## ||Downhome|| (Jan 12, 2009)

this is not intended for large loads most componets I sourced seem to be between 1500-2000 watts so you would not want to draw more then that or risk a fire hazard. this is more of a backwoods shack with minimal power needs. 

A guy on another forum liked my Idea about useing a "pigtail" to charge a house circuit, though you could hardwire it at the plug and make it little safer.

but then he wanted to recharge the batterys from the gen, I know it more about convience he has thoughts of a few solar panels down the road.

so I came up with this scheme to accomadate those needs.

please look them over and if you can make any improvements or see any flaws please bring them to my attention.





























if you get that hooked up all you need is a electric start gen that runs on propane (look around lots of mods out there) and you can stay in the cabin and do everything with a few switch flips and minimum hassle.

if he where to add panels later can anyone provide a diagram on the proper way to hook it into this configuration.


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## ||Downhome|| (Jan 12, 2009)

99 veiws and not one reply? 

I was hopeing for some input, well looking around the net I did find some inexpensive automatic transfer switches, little more money then this this set up but not too bad on the wallet and you don't have to flip the switch. 

http://store.solar-electric.com/ioitauactrsw.html 

anyone have or use one of these? they have 50 and 100amp models also.

well I'm thinking about this, it came to me I really would like it to be a redundant system.
I've got a little experience and knowledge in this stuff but I'm having trouble putting it together.

if you put a relay on the generator to start it up when the power from the battery banks stopped, the ATS would be the ticket to switch power over. but you would not want your generator running longer then it took to charge the battery banks. 

I am trying to keep this budget friendly so keep that in mind, but I had a thought of one of those house hold (aa-aaa type) battery chargers on a circuit that is dead on the emergency generator start. the batteries in the charger wired in to a dc circuit powering a relay, when they go dead the relay shunts the gen turning it off. then the inverter takes back over. 

think I figured out the solar/wind connections.


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## ace admirer (Oct 5, 2005)

is this a utility serviced house or total off grid? if off grid disreguard the below? very interested by the way..

ok so by "common" is that neutral?

are you backfeeding to one back plane of the power distrubation box? using the main breaker to disconnect from the utility service?

seems the three way switch would be used with the common screw to a branch circuit, one traverler to orginal branch circuit breaker, the other travler screw would be feed from gnerator/inverter circuit? or am i out of the ballpark?


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## ||Downhome|| (Jan 12, 2009)

well the particular setup is a gentleman's cabin , little deer shack no big power requirements. 

he wired for A/C and is running off inverter,few lights,laptop. occasionally he needs to run some tools so hes has to power up the gen. 

I have some friends that run their deer camp same way, except they need to run the washer every once in a while and they just run a few dc loads on battery. 

but in both instances you have to go out fuel up the gen, pull start it, change around connections, so much easier if you could flip one switch and be done.

got me thinking of a way to do it inexpensive and simple operation,then I started thinking it be nice to have the system auto regulating and you can scale according to needs. if you where to leave for any extended period you would turn the system off,save maybe for solar/wind float charging the battery's if that where incorporated.

ace you got it but both travelers are used for power source and the common is used as traveler the the building circuit. breakers would be nice and always a great safety feature but not included in the original system.

but for my idea on the redundant system ATS is necessary and I think with in budget range/considerations. 

for a complete system Inverter/battery bank, preferably with some kind of "green power" in as the primary power, the generator for maintenance charging and backup.utility as fail safe source. so not a grid tied system but grid backed and only using utility if convenient
of absolutely necessary. I would do a pair ATS no doubt though I think they would tie in on the inside circuit off the main breaker box. I suppose you could also use just one ATS 
and the PMTS to control the inverter,gen feed to the ATS with the main feed as the aux and PMTS as the "Shore power". 

but that still leaves me thinking of how to regulate the backup charge cycle using the gen. 

then if you have very minuscule needs most of the time you could get by with a smaller inverter so maybe make it a dual inverter system maybe a 400w and 800w continuous though if you could always stack 2-400w for 800w , so anything over this or a dead system you have to fall back to another power source, so you need to be able to trigger the functions of the control circuit for on demand power. either utility or backup sources depending on which is available.

I guess I am looking for some fail safe to boot, like if the gen is called for and theres no fuel or foulded plug ,wont start it does non keep trying to start it, and if the inverter circuit shut down in that instance it stays off in stead of comeing back on line and draining the battery.


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## ace admirer (Oct 5, 2005)

Hmmm alot to think about


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## ||Downhome|| (Jan 12, 2009)

well racked my brain and scoured the net, I think I could do what I want with just a little more knowledge. but all the relay connections got me spinning, best option next to a home brew for the generator function may be Magnum ME-AGS-S Auto Gen Start Stand-Alone module. 260.00 price tag but would do the funtions I'm after and a little more intelligent then my relay schemes. 

so far I like 
Parallax Replacement Auto Transfer Switcth 50 AMP ATS501 166.00
Magnum ME-AGS-S Auto Gen Start Stand-Alone module. 260.00
Powerland Dual Fuel 10000 W Generator 16hp 869.00

not sure on inverters yet. stackable or not is a question.

think that for less then 2,000 with a little shoping a off the shelf out of the box sytem could be assembled. 

I'm still cooking the home brew up, but I got a headache right now.


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## ||Downhome|| (Jan 12, 2009)

took a little hunting but heres a diy auto gen starting circuit

http://www.electronicsforu.com/elec.../cir15.htm&title=Add Auto Start To Generators

bet you could build it for 5-10 dollars, which is more in line with the nature of my intentions of a low cost,relatively simple diy alternative,back up system.

my other thought was most inverters have a low voltage alarm and shut off, you could tap into to that to control the generator starting circuit.

anyone have input or other ideas ? I am by no means an expert and even learning as I go, and finding alot of interesting stuff to. so if any input would be greatly appreciated.


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