# Advice or recommendations appreciated.



## Hiro (Feb 14, 2016)

Our middle child, 15F, was given the opportunity to participate in a trap shoot last week. I took her out with my old clay pigeon thrower to show the basics and she showed quite the aptitude. 

Anyway, I have a great deal of experience with pump shotguns and semi-autos in the field and marsh; but, my experience and knowledge with over-under shotguns is limited to two trips shooting sporting clays. I know over-under shotguns vary widely in price. Do any of you have any input on a reasonably priced/decent quality over-under shotgun for a youth interested in taking up this sport?


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## GREENCOUNTYPETE (Jul 25, 2006)

the CZ is a nice gun for the money still around 900

unless your shouting doubles you don't need a O/U even then an auto would work

a friend of mine has a Tri Star 20ga O/U I got to shoot at our fun day shoot you can get those around 450

that said his regular clays gun is an Auto in 12ga 

you can shoot a 25 with a "field gun"

2 things really matter pattern and fit

if your gun patterns poorly and this can often be changed with a different choke tube in guns with tubes

if the gun does not fit

a Morgan pad a cheek riser , correct length of pull

when you look at the gun rack and you see a 870 with a Morgan pad and a cheek pad don't be surprised if that guy or gal can shoot they figured out how to make a "field gun" work for them

that said you may want to talk to the team coach they generally have a lot of experience in this and may even know someone who outgrew their gun and is looking to sell it.

our 4-H trap is nearly all field guns , I have one shooter who got into it in 4-H then he and his dad joined a club to keep shooting through he rest of the year he met a national level coach at that club and is now headed to college on a trap scholarship
His dad stopped me in the walmart parking lot one day to tell me this and thank me for helping him get started. since with Covid we didn't have any shoots this year

I don't know a lot about O/U either most of my instruction is on pump and semi auto what ever the kids bring to shoot , a bunch of rural kids I see a lot of pump guns and get a lot of kids shooting 23-24 with those guns.


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## Hiro (Feb 14, 2016)

She did fine with the 870 and a modified choke. I couldn't find the other chokes because that is what I have used for the last 20 years. There are a whole set of remchokes somewhere....but, they may as well be on the dark side of the moon.

The CZ drrake o/u appeared to be a reasonably priced and effective choice for a 100 lb shooter.


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## GREENCOUNTYPETE (Jul 25, 2006)

fit is everything especially with young ladies as they don't have the meat on their bones for cushion.

one of the other instructors I talk to at state trainings got a young lady to try trap she was really Leary it looked fun but she wasn't sure as she was watching other kids shoot at a 4-H event 2 years later she is a national level shooter but they had to do some odd things with her but pad , it is a curved Morgan pad on a angle so that it cups the shoulder joint she was small and didn't have the the muscle structure to put a flat pad in the pocket of the shoulder.

I am certified to teach shotgun but it isn't my passion

the think with the girls is they come to shooting with basically an open mind , and a willingness to listen and not what they saw on tv or figured out with their red rider 

some boys you might get them at 8yo and still have to break some bad habits and they may fight you on it 

train them right and they will do well.

I makes me so mad when I see some one give a kid , woman or girl way to much gun then laugh when the recoil hits them ruins so many potential new shooters and advocates for our sport.


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## Hiro (Feb 14, 2016)

She has been doing fine and progressing well. Her 10 year old brother has gone to each of her practices, but I had managed to keep his interests limited because he just couldn't manage a full size 12 gauge. We went to a local range with a trap field and one of the owners asked him if he was shooting. He demurred and I explained his inability to manage a full size shotgun. The results were the gentleman putting together a youth size 20-gauge over/under. I tried once more by noting that I didn't have any 20-gauge shells and was met with "Here, have two boxes". 

Long story short, this is getting more and more expensive:


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## 67drake (May 6, 2020)

Good for them! My sons school has a trap shooting team and he, surprisingly,has no interest in it! At his age I would have been in heaven. No trap shooting teams in school where I grew up. 
I hope they have a ball.


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## Danaus29 (Sep 12, 2005)

Any sport kids get involved in gets to be pretty expensive. 
Now you need to add archery and music lessons just to round it out. LOL


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## GREENCOUNTYPETE (Jul 25, 2006)

shooting sports are expensive but the safest of all sports

tally up the price of having a bad knee your whole life because all you needed was some practice shorts and a pair of cleats to play freshman football


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## Fishindude (May 19, 2015)

Great to see kids in the shooting sports.
You mention"trap" shooting which involves a single shot. Most true trap guns are single barrel, yet many old timers still use a pump gun because they are east to load / unload a single shot.

Since you went with an over / under, I'm guessing we are not "trap" shooting, but shooting sporting clays or skeet where the second barrel, second shot is required?

I really enjoy sporting clays.


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## Hiro (Feb 14, 2016)

Fishindude said:


> Great to see kids in the shooting sports.
> You mention"trap" shooting which involves a single shot. Most true trap guns are single barrel, yet many old timers still use a pump gun because they are east to load / unload a single shot.
> 
> Since you went with an over / under, I'm guessing we are not "trap" shooting, but shooting sporting clays or skeet where the second barrel, second shot is required?
> ...


This isn't my first rodeo. She shot the first three practices doing trap with my 870. I know her well enough that it was likely headed to other venues, at least to try. Trap doubles were next, skeet, wobble trap and we are scheduled for a sporting clay shoot at the end of the month. 

But, the "team" that was put together to shoot trap and that is still the focus.


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## Hiro (Feb 14, 2016)

Danaus29 said:


> Any sport kids get involved in gets to be pretty expensive.
> Now you need to add archery and music lessons just to round it out. LOL


They already do piano and karate. So, they are rounded out, as is my checkbook.


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## Danaus29 (Sep 12, 2005)

Sorry about the checkbook, but it gives them so much more than anything money can buy.


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## Hiro (Feb 14, 2016)

I started this sport because it inspired them to beat me. It really is a lot of fun, though different than what I am used to shooting. It seemed like cheating to know when and where they were coming from precisely. 

Anyway, with trap shooting I keep getting stuck at 24. I believe if I just fired the first shot in the air, I would hit 24 every round. 

Anyway, my 11 year old just hit his first 25 with a 20 gauge and it wasn't like he chipped any of them. They all were just dusted.


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## GREENCOUNTYPETE (Jul 25, 2006)

Glad you and they are doing well , we wrap up our youth season here tonight my son seems to be stuck at 23 we will see what he shoots tonight.

he gets to over thinking things.


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## muleskinner2 (Oct 7, 2007)

Go look around in a large Pawn Shop, you may find a real deal.


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## JJ Grandits (Nov 10, 2002)

I shot trap for years and was the captain of my trap team while shooting a Nobel model 420 sxs I bought off my mechanic for $125. That gun gave me a handful of 25 patches and kicked ass in many rounds of Annie Oakley and Scotch doubles.
I then picked up a Savage Fox model B with two sets of barrels for $500.
This gun had a Morgan pad and served me very well.
My next trap gun was a Charles Daily semi auto.
Cheap, but effective.
Its not what you shoot but how well you shoot it.
There was a young man was the son of one of our members.
He shot a very plain 12ga. single shot his dad bought at a garage sale.
There was no information as far a what it was but by checking out the proof marks I found that it was manufactured in Brazil and was known as a "Hamilton Hunter".
He wracked up a ton of 25 patches with that thing and a number of 50's too.
As he got older and started working he saved his money and bought a beautiful Beretta semi auto.
After shooting trap with it for a month it ended up on the pool table with a for sale sign on it. He went back to the trusty Hamilton Hunter.
Don't spend a fortune.
Find something that fits and than learn to shoot it.


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## Nimrod (Jun 8, 2010)

I shot trap for years with my Remington 870 with a 30 inch barrel and full choke. Got a few 25 and 50 patches. I tried an 870 trap grade for a few years. With the trap grade you put the target on top of the vent rib. Since you can see the target all the time you can make an adjustment if it moves at the last minute. This did improve my score by one or two birds. The problem came when I picked up my field grade 870. I shot under a lot of pheasants and ducks until I started making a conscious correction to my aiming point. 

I currently teach firearms safety as a volunteer for the MN DNR. Hunters born after 1971 need this certificate to buy a hunting license. It's open to anyone 11 or over so we have had all ages over the years but most students are 11 or 12. As part of field day they can voluntarily shoot 5 shots on the trap field. The gun club has 870 youth models in 20 gauge and they fit most kids. I agree with the folks that expound the wisdom of getting a gun that fits. If she is petite a youth model might be the answer.


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## GREENCOUNTYPETE (Jul 25, 2006)

My son had an old 870 with thin barrel and while it was vent rib it was really close to the barrel at the end 

about 2/3 of the way through a flight the barrel was getting hot enough that the front sight had mirage distorting the view of the bird and bead.

nice gun otherwise but it got traded 

he is stuck at 24 but he never did better than a 21 with that gun so traded for another 

I might not have believed him but I shot a round with it and sure enough mirage around the front sight about the time you hit the 4th station and it wasn't even a hot day.


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## Hiro (Feb 14, 2016)

I let my daughter pick out her own shotgun after the first few practices with my 870. She chose a Stoeger Condor Competition that must weight 80 lbs. But, she liked it from the get go and has no desire to trade up. I bought a CZ Redhead Premier 20-gauge for me to share with little man. There wasn't a whole lot of sharing; so, I went back to the 870. I looked at a cheek pad riser for a while and just never bothered since I was just shooting for fun. 20-21 was about all I could manage with the 870. 

I finally got my self a Citori that I just knew/hoped my daughter was going to appropriate. But, she didn't like it. The little man will end up with it once he puts on about 10 more pounds, I suspect. No doubt, my wife will take up trap shooting then and confiscate the CZ and I'll be back where I started minus a small fortune.


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## GREENCOUNTYPETE (Jul 25, 2006)

he had been stuck at 23 with his other 870 then he shot a 24 Friday 

a cloud rolled over drastically changing the light from full bright to mid day dark in a matter of seconds just as he was calling pull it went dark. that was the only one he missed 

stn 4 the sun had been coming right over your shoulder really making the bead look bigger than it was , he had had issues with that on his first go at that station ever miss of the evening came at stn 4 for him in 4 rounds the light was just different there it wasn't just him

one of those rare trap occasions were light sup sights up , lights down sights down might apply , normally that is just a longer range shooting issue , cloudy day with Irons you have less light returning from your front sight so it looks smaller , bright sun and you see the sight larger than it is.


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## Hiro (Feb 14, 2016)

My daughter whacked her first 25 today. But, it was predictable as she has been running a string of 23's and 24's for a while now. I am hopeless. It is obvious that I will shoot 24's or high 20's forever. Though, I believe have found why I randomly shoot an 18 or so. If I target shoot pistols within a week of trap or sporting clays, I miss the first two or three until I realize I am looking at the darn bead on the gun. 

To all those that can be an expert marksman in multi gun disciplines....my regards. I do not think that I can join your ranks.


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## GREENCOUNTYPETE (Jul 25, 2006)

is that why all the new competitors run an RMR on everything , one sight picture?


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## GunMonkeyIntl (May 13, 2013)

Hiro said:


> My daughter whacked her first 25 today. But, it was predictable as she has been running a string of 23's and 24's for a while now. I am hopeless. It is obvious that I will shoot 24's or high 20's forever. Though, I believe have found why I randomly shoot an 18 or so. If I target shoot pistols within a week of trap or sporting clays, I miss the first two or three until I realize I am looking at the darn bead on the gun.
> 
> To all those that can be an expert marksman in multi gun disciplines....my regards. I do not think that I can join your ranks.


Honestly, if I could ever get really good with a pistol, I think I’d be content to suck at all the rest. Shotgun and rifle are cool, but pistol is the real Samurai discipline of the gun world.


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## GunMonkeyIntl (May 13, 2013)

GREENCOUNTYPETE said:


> is that why all the new competitors run an RMR on everything , one sight picture?


That certainly helps. A buddy at Sig just gave me an M17 (civilian model not surplus), and it’s the first RMR-ready pistol I’ve ever owned. I’m thinking REAL hard about putting a Romeo on it. I’m honestly just afraid I will spoil myself and not want to shoot anything other pistols.


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## Hiro (Feb 14, 2016)

GunMonkeyIntl said:


> Honestly, if I could ever get really good with a pistol, I think I’d be content to suck at all the rest. Shotgun and rifle are cool, but pistol is the real Samurai discipline of the gun world.


I have been, at different times in my life, good at all of them. Not expert level, but pretty good. But, as I reflect now and I am trying to assist my charges and old lady, I was not good at any but one at the same phase in my life. In my youth I shot 49 ducks with 49 shots, sometimes 3 at a time and not all decoyed when that is what I did. The dove piles were heaped with next no winged birds. When I went from shooting birds, I went 10 years without ever missing a deer that I shot at. After I quit hunting I could knock out the orange in 50 shots with a pistol. 

Now, I am an average shot with everything. It is frustrating. But, I think @GREENCOUNTYPETE is spot on. That and the triggers are very different.


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## GREENCOUNTYPETE (Jul 25, 2006)

many of the pistol guys who put up low times spend a lot of time on that exact stage how to shave every second from it.

the pistol league I am in is just for fun and we set new stages every time 

when I first started I wanted to get faster and chased equipment to go faster , then I changed gears and started running a compact from concealment mags in pocket , yes I got a little slower , but it was much better practice.

it is kind of cool to have people ask dude where is your gun are you shooting tonight , then you step on the line for you stage and produce gun and mags that even the gun people didn't see you were carrying even better if you can do better than their time.


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## mitchell3006 (Apr 1, 2010)

35+ years ago I took a $99 Mossberg 500 with a modified barrel and beat 4 shooters who were shooting Perazzis to help them shoot registered/legal targets to qualify them for State. The Mossberg had a broken safety so I had a popsicle stick I had cut to fit screwed on in its place. Point is that it is fit and familiarity not fancy that wins.


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## Hiro (Feb 14, 2016)

Good times. They are getting scary good at this to the point they are beating me too often. I can still get them at sporting clays, but they honestly beat me more often than not at trap shooting.


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## GREENCOUNTYPETE (Jul 25, 2006)

my son had been 23-24 and finally shot a 25 on his last
he is just shooting an 870

kinda funny 2 days later I am helping him practice for a 3gun match the next day , I have a hand full of clay and I toss them like frizbees he smokes the first one then brings his gun down to his side ejects the shell into his hand and places it in his pouch.

Dude what the heck , you need to shift gears into 3 gun and rack that thing I am not going to stop throwing you better reload while I pick up more clay.

he had such a process for trap 100% of his focus was on the target

great until you change games , it only took him a minute

Just an 870 well now it is a 12+1 870 even though he can only start with 10 in the gun in his division I got a deal on the tube and there is nothing in the rules to say you can't stuff more once the buzzer sounds so one more way to game it it is only a couple three inches longer than the barrel


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