# Beans, but why bullets?



## OrganicCat (Sep 23, 2008)

So I'm new here and I've seen a lot of "stock up on ammo and firearms". Maybe I came from the school of the blind, but I don't see why excessive ammo and firearms is going to help you survive some natural catastrophe. I mean, almost everyone I've read admits if something devastating happens, the city folk (all 300 million of them, or half that if they kill each other off) are going to rush your lovely little prairie houses like it's the end of the world. I have no reason to think all 150 million people are going to line up waiting for you to reload while you shoot them down (aka, before you know if they're there to offer help in return for food and shelter) and you will have enough bullets for all of them. Stacked on that, why own more than 10 or so guns (unless you have more than 10 people in your family)? You can't shoot more than 1 or two at a time.

Let's say you've got some huge stock of ammo right? 30 people rush your house. You mow down maybe 10. Why in the world would they wait around for you to pick the rest of them off? Even those without the smallest bit of strategy would say "Hey, they can't see us when it's dark!" and move in at that time. Or maybe they'd grab the nearest vehicle and ram it into your house. Or farm. Or anything that would cause you damage or problems. Those 1 million rounds so carefully saved up? Worthless.

If you're saving them for hunting with the side-effect of killing off those pesky roaving bandits, why not just go bow hunting? Or trap hunting? Both of which are equally effective and don't require wasting a limited resource.

I'm not looking for convincing of myself (I'd use a bow with limited sidearm), just trying to understand where you guys are coming from :buds:


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## deaconjim (Oct 31, 2005)

1. There are different guns for different purposes, therefore I need more than one gun.

2. In a complete meltdown of society (worse case), there won't be any more guns or ammo being produced. A good supply will last longer for me and my kids.

3. Bow hunting is good, but arrows get lost or broken. Bow hunting also has limited range, and I often hunt where a bow is not practical.

4. I don't necessarily need a huge arsenal, but only a few people know what I have. The rest of the world gets to guess.


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## stranger (Feb 24, 2008)

OrganicCat said:


> So I'm new here and I've seen a lot of "stock up on ammo and firearms". Maybe I came from the school of the blind, but I don't see why excessive ammo and firearms is going to help you survive some natural catastrophe. I mean, almost everyone I've read admits if something devastating happens, the city folk (all 300 million of them, or half that if they kill each other off) are going to rush your lovely little prairie houses like it's the end of the world. I have no reason to think all 150 million people are going to line up waiting for you to reload while you shoot them down (aka, before you know if they're there to offer help in return for food and shelter) and you will have enough bullets for all of them. Stacked on that, why own more than 10 or so guns (unless you have more than 10 people in your family)? You can't shoot more than 1 or two at a time.
> 
> Let's say you've got some huge stock of ammo right? 30 people rush your house. You mow down maybe 10. Why in the world would they wait around for you to pick the rest of them off? Even those without the smallest bit of strategy would say "Hey, they can't see us when it's dark!" and move in at that time. Or maybe they'd grab the nearest vehicle and ram it into your house. Or farm. Or anything that would cause you damage or problems. Those 1 million rounds so carefully saved up? Worthless.
> 
> ...


 I have many friends that are armed to the teeth and think nothing can touch them. I keep telling them that i could burn them out with one arrow.
I don't think some of them know about the new weapons in use today and that all their ammo will probably be useless unless for hunting. even one well placed grenade at night and they're history.


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## Guest (Sep 25, 2008)

OrganicCat said:


> So I'm new here and I've seen a lot of "stock up on ammo and firearms". Maybe I came from the school of the blind, but I don't see why excessive ammo and firearms is going to help you survive some natural catastrophe. I mean, almost everyone I've read admits if something devastating happens, the city folk (all 300 million of them, or half that if they kill each other off) are going to rush your lovely little prairie houses like it's the end of the world. I have no reason to think all 150 million people are going to line up waiting for you to reload while you shoot them down (aka, before you know if they're there to offer help in return for food and shelter) and you will have enough bullets for all of them. Stacked on that, why own more than 10 or so guns (unless you have more than 10 people in your family)? You can't shoot more than 1 or two at a time.
> 
> Let's say you've got some huge stock of ammo right? 30 people rush your house. You mow down maybe 10. Why in the world would they wait around for you to pick the rest of them off? Even those without the smallest bit of strategy would say "Hey, they can't see us when it's dark!" and move in at that time. Or maybe they'd grab the nearest vehicle and ram it into your house. Or farm. Or anything that would cause you damage or problems. Those 1 million rounds so carefully saved up? Worthless.
> 
> ...


 While you make a good point in your post your manner of asking indicates to me you're not really interested in a serious answer. Honey over vinegar for fly catching and all that.

For the benefit of other newcomers though there are several reasons one sees these sorts of posts.

#1 - the poster are themselves new to the idea of prepping and thus haven't thought the whole "what to stockpile?" thing through yet.

#2 - in a major widespread disaster one of the first things the government does is to limit or outright prohibit the sale of firearms and ammunition. In a long-term disaster there may be no ammunition for sale for many years. It need not even be a disaster for this to occur. Civlian sales of ammunition were sharply limited or prohibited during the Second World War due to the needs of the military. If the disaster should be so large as to eliminate the government along with any organized, coherent military and/or law enforcement the necessity for arms and ammunition is going to be paramount.

#3 - there are many folks who are prepping for more than simply natural catastrophes. Many of those scenarios will definitely require weapons and ammo.

As for the amount of weapons and ammunition needed you're making more of the more common mistakes to be seen in thinking the enemy can band together but the defenders cannot. The longer the emergency runs, the more extreme it becomes the more organization that is going to happen on all sides out of simple self-preservation. My neighbor may not have a rifle or ammunition for the one he does have, but he's got a home and family he wants to defend just like I do. So if I can loan him a rifle or ammunition there are now two armed home owners to defend our neighborhood rather than just one. Multiply that as needed. Look at the Rodney King riots and the aftermaths of hurricanes such as Andrew, Katrina, and Ike for neighborhoods that come together for mutual defense.

Ii is definitely a mistake to so focus on weaponry that you do not sufficiently prep in the other equally vital areas, but equally as great a one as to ignore it altogether. This leaves us with "how much is enough?" just as we see with food storage, water, fuel, communications and so on. The answers to those questions can only be arrived at by a careful analysis of the scenarios one is prepping for, the amount of storage space one has, and the level of interest in preparing for them.

.....Alan.


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## stanb999 (Jan 30, 2005)

A.T. Hagan said:


> While you make a good point in your post your manner of asking indicates to me you're not really interested in a serious answer. Honey over vinegar for fly catching and all that.
> 
> For the benefit of other newcomers though there are several reasons one sees these sorts of posts.
> 
> ...


:clap::clap::clap:


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## horselover.com (Jul 3, 2006)

what Mr. Hagan said


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## Cabin Fever (May 10, 2002)

Great response, Alan. I would just like to add one more thing regarding the senario of 30 people rushing our house. If this were to actually happen, no way in heck will we go out by rolling over and giving up. We're going out in a blaze of glory...that's the only way. Kinda like the basement gunfight scene in the movie "Tremors."

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IOyhGo6pONQ"]Tremors Basement Scene[/ame]


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## two_barking_dogs (Sep 17, 2002)

Having 2 of the same style rifles allows you to cannibalize them for parts if needed. 

Having military style weapons gives you a better chance of holding off the 30 people rushing your house. Remember military style weapons are designed to hold large amounts of ammo and to rapidly reload. 

Guns are like tools. Different tools for different uses. If I were worried that someone would ram my house with a car I would make sure that someone was standing guard with one of my FALs, 308, as they have a harder hitting round. Where as the M16/AR15 platform is lighter and holds more rounds and thus is a better everyday weapon, in an armed situation.

As to quantities of ammo to have on hand like everything else it is better to have to much on hand then not enough 

But more then likely all 300 million people won't be coming to just your house. Hopefully some will visit your neighbors instead. The ones that do visit most likely won't all be arriving at the same time. And since this is an event you won't have the option of dialing 911 and having the government come save your butt. A rifle gives you a better ability to defend yourself then a bow will if the need arises. 

Now I have friends who are anti-guns and their thinking is that if anyone comes to take their stuff or rape their wife then they will just sit back and take it and assume the bad guys will leave them alive when they get done. I'd rather not depend upon the mercy of the bad guy.

Oh - Nightvision equipment does a good job of turning the nite into day. Plus the price of decent NV equip isn't much more then a decent rifle. Same with bulletproof vests.

But for normal everyday hunting I'm a big fan of crossbows and use mine every year in deer season.


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## OrganicCat (Sep 23, 2008)

Cabin Fever said:


> Great response, Alan. I would just like to add one more thing regarding the senario of 30 people rushing our house. If this were to actually happen, no way in heck will we go out by rolling over and giving up. We're going out in a blaze of glory...that's the only way. Kinda like the basement gunfight scene in the movie "Tremors."
> 
> Tremors Basement Scene


Hehe, that's the type of person I'm imagining whenever someone says "I'm stocking up on guns and bullets!".

Back to the topic, sorry to disappoint Alan, but I was actually looking for answers and you actually provided one I was looking for! I can totally understand the "stock up for resupplying local defense forces" area that you're coming from. That's something I haven't looked at because almost everytime I've seen someone talking about it, they talk like they are going to be holed up alone with their family and maybe one other person. If they actually have the intention of re-establishing whatever their brand of law and order is (by supplying others), that's understandable to me


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## brosil (Dec 15, 2003)

It's your duty as a citizen to kill as many raiders as possible before they take you down so that there are fewer to attack your neighbors, giving them a better chance for survival.


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## chickenista (Mar 24, 2007)

OrganicCat.. if you look at the top of the page you will see a "book" called "We Interrupt This Program" or something very similar... It is a good read! and will answer some of the questions you have. There are also book recommendations that will help too.
It is not just folks, but roaming packs of starving dogs etc.. that need the bullets.
Plus, you can grow more beans.


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## Guest (Sep 25, 2008)

OrganicCat said:


> Hehe, that's the type of person I'm imagining whenever someone says "I'm stocking up on guns and bullets!".


 One of my favorite movies. I've watched it many, many times.

But Burt Gummer is only a caricature of a survivalist though we do seem to have some that think that's the way to be. My favorite character in the film is actually Earl Basset. âRunningâs not plan! Running is what you do when a plan fails!â


> Back to the topic, sorry to disappoint Alan, but I was actually looking for answers and you actually provided one I was looking for! I can totally understand the "stock up for resupplying local defense forces" area that you're coming from. That's something I haven't looked at because almost every time I've seen someone talking about it, they talk like they are going to be holed up alone with their family and maybe one other person. If they actually have the intention of re-establishing whatever their brand of law and order is (by supplying others), that's understandable to me


 There is no specific definition of what is and is not a survivalist nor any way to enforce one (thank God) so if you look you're going to see folks all over the map. I've met survivalists who were complete pacifists to those who had enough guns, ammo, and associated gear to outfit a regimental combat team. Liberal to conservative to arch-Libertarian. Plain old normal folks to those who were so far off of my plane of reality that we could hardly comprehend each other. The desire to survive seems to be the sole common denominator amongst us all. 

There are a number of different boards focused on preparedness of one sort or another to one degree or another and they attract the types of people who are particularly interested in those aspects. The "gonna buy lots of beans and bullets" types are easy to find because they talk a lot! In my experience those types fall into a couple of general categories - they're rather new to the entire concept and haven't thought it through much - or they're keyboard commandos who are little more than talk and would have apoplexy if it really looked like they were going to have to use that stuff for real.

Eventually they either settle down into real preppers once they realize there is vastly more to this undertaking than merely stockpiling guns, bullets, and beans or they move on to whatever it is that has next taken their interest never to be heard from again.

I will add one more subcategory here. The one who always talk about how many guns he has while never talking about anything else may just be a simple gun enthusiast who hangs out on those boards. Hopefully nothing serious will ever happen to him because if he really does have a lot of guns and no other meaningful preps heâs either going to turn feral when matters really begin to bite or get himself killed so that his weapons collection passes on to whomever it is that won them - quite possibly a band of predators.

The folks that I consider to be the real survivalists are the ones who can knowledgably discuss not only the guns and ammunition they happen to have experience with, but also how they have met their food storage challenges; how they are going to cope with loss of centralized utilities; their water storage and supply systems; first aid; communications; food production for the medium and long-term scenarios; transport; and their secondary and tertiary plans for all of the above. They'll talk about weaponry occasionally, but also talk about a good many other things as well because they know that excessive focus on one area leaves you vulnerable in the neglected areas. We also often discuss day to day matters because you have to survive all of that first if you want to reach TEOTWAWKI.

Have a seat and stay a spell. We've got our share of loons, but most of us are just folks.

.....Alan.


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## seedspreader (Oct 18, 2004)

Most people here don't "prep" for short term natural disasters. Those are just matters of inconvenience. Storms like IKE are practice and drills. That's not to say that their preps aren't needed for those situations, but not many people are dying in the streets AFTER the storm leaves. Regional disasters (even as large as IKE) are just that, regional. Most of us take a longer look at disaster. What if it were not "natural" but were man made? There are any number of scenarios for the man made that would be larger than a regional disaster. 

Everyone takes what they want out of S&EP. If you are looking just to be a little more comfortable for a couple of weeks with electricity out, you'll find that here. If you are looking at being able to have a stable community (including security forces or peace officiers) after a CHTF scenario... you'll find that here. If you are looking to hold of Zombie hordes, you'll find that here. Most of us don't think there will Mutant Zombie Bikers unless we were in an EOTWAWKI scenario, in which case, the most organic, most peace loving hippy will be willing to eat chinese dog food from wal mart while carrying their ak-47 to hunt down puppies to eat and take home and burn on their pollution belching oil stove... that's what the survival in S&EP stands for. 

What are we surviving for? For many people there are different reasons... for many of us who are Christians here... because there is hope. There is always hope in Christ and if we can help others to survive and maybe come to know God's grace... then we've done the best we can do.


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## Guest (Sep 25, 2008)

I like to keep a large caliber handgun in the event that a certain un-named someone from general chat makes his way all the way here, from out there, and being a real southerner, I'd have to invite him in, then he goes to talking his insane liberal stuff that he posts, I could excuse myself, go outside, and blow my brains out in preference to listening to him.


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## stanb999 (Jan 30, 2005)

zong said:


> I like to keep a large caliber handgun in the event that a certain un-named someone from general chat makes his way all the way here, from out there, and being a real southerner, I'd have to invite him in, then he goes to talking his insane liberal stuff that he posts, I could excuse myself, go outside, and blow my brains out in preference to listening to him.


Oh, my gosh!!!! This isn't general chat so be nice.:angel:


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## unregistered29228 (Jan 9, 2008)

OrganicCat - we have an assortment of guns and ammo for a couple of reasons. We have varmints who would kill our livestock, and we dispatch them. We have wild game that serves as food, and we shoot and eat them. And we consider certain of our guns to be for home protection. I don't give much thought to angry hordes descending on my house, but I do think of some opportunistic thief breaking in some night when I'm alone with the kids. I'd have no hesitation in dispatching that kind of varmint either. It's my responsibility to keep my family safe, and I can't expect the police to arrive in time when I'm 10 miles from town.

We keep a good supply of ammo for each type of gun because there WILL come a time when guns and ammo are more carefully controlled or even denied us. Plus prices have risen in the last few years. Plus, guns don't really go down in value if they're well maintained, so they're just another asset we own.

We want our kids to grow up familiar with firearms because we are teaching them a more back-to-nature lifestyle and how to hunt. Also we want them to know how to defend themselves if needed, without panicking or shooting themselves.

We consider guns and ammo just as important as water barrels and the vacuum sealer. They're items that will allow us to survive safely and in comfort if times get hard.


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## Guest (Sep 25, 2008)

Cabin Fever said:


> Kinda like the basement gunfight scene in the movie "Tremors."
> 
> Tremors Basement Scene


What the heck is that???


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## Guest (Sep 25, 2008)

ladycat said:


> What the heck is that???


 A lesson in not becoming too smug about how well you have prepped.

.....Alan.


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## stranger (Feb 24, 2008)

And the more you advertize you guns and ammo on the the net, the more likely you are to make the list. JMO, maybe paranoid but someone has to be monitoring all web sites and taking notes, IP#s ect.


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## Madame (Jan 1, 2003)

OrganicCat said:


> Let's say you've got some huge stock of ammo right? 30 people rush your house. You mow down maybe 10. Why in the world would they wait around for you to pick the rest of them off? Even those without the smallest bit of strategy would say "Hey, they can't see us when it's dark!" and move in at that time. Or maybe they'd grab the nearest vehicle and ram it into your house. Or farm. Or anything that would cause you damage or problems. Those 1 million rounds so carefully saved up? Worthless.


So if you were one of those people, would you rush the house of the folks who are heavily armed or those with bow and arrows?

When I got 2 new dogs recently, this is why I looked for big dogs instead of cutsie bundles of fur. They won't stop a determined intruder, but an opportunist will look elsewhere. I figure I'm just improving my odds.


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## texican (Oct 4, 2003)

If you don't have bullets, you won't get to keep your beans...:sing:

You're my neighbor. We both have lots of beans. I got bullets. You don't. The Zombies come to my house, all '30' of them. They hit my tripwire and ten are turned into hamburger. I shoot three more and the rest scatter. Several more zombies get some wounds in their backsides. They leave my place and head over to easier pickings... your place, with all the beans and no bullets. Harsh words and 911 don't work on Zombies.

Very few people (zombies, the golden horde, etc.) will want to risk armed conflict when there are so many weak people to prey on. It's a law of nature, predators don't attack predators... the risk of injury is too great... of course, there are exceptions, protecting young, starvation. Never underestimate the will of a parent watching their babies starve to death.

I dislike the notion of having to be mean... but, if a person doesn't protect their beans against the 'grasshoppers', one soon will become one of the 'grasshoppers'...


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## stranger (Feb 24, 2008)

Madame said:


> So if you were one of those people, would you rush the house of the folks who are heavily armed or those with bow and arrows?
> 
> *When I got 2 new dogs recently, this is why I looked for big dogs instead of cutsie bundles of fur. They won't stop a determined intruder, but an opportunist will look elsewhere. I figure I'm just improving my odds*.


 The smart person wouldn't be rushing the house, whether it be arrows or bullits.

I hope that you're also putting away a couple ton of food for the dogs while you're prepping, I got looking at my 2 labs this morning and they sound like pit bulls when someone comes to the door, but i don't think they would hurt their own fleas, they carry on for a while when a stranger comes but after a while they are licking the strangers.
all the talk of killing these zombies, robbers, thives, whatever, i hope all the bodies are down wind from me or no one shoots the under taker.


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## Guest (Sep 25, 2008)

If they're working dogs then dog feed becomes one of your prep considerations. I've got two Great Pyrenees pups now and their feed needs have become one more thing I've got to prep for.

As for the bodies, that's what composting is for. Everything can be made to serve a purpose.

.....Alan.


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## Michael Kawalek (Jun 21, 2007)

When taking the family or friends to the shooting range for a day trip, it isn't uncommon for us to burn off 3-4 hundred rounds of ammunition. So, say I have 200 9mm rounds sitting around: well, that amounts to only a single day's worth of ammunition. That's one very, very good reason for stocking up. 

As for guns, if I was the only person in the family that is armed during an assalt on our home, than maybe I myself might only stop 10. But, arming the whole family will guarranty that ALL my family members are protected. 

I don't think you have ever experienced what desperate people who haven't eaten for several days will do for food. It won't happen at first, but these people will quickly figure out that your family is still well fed. What are you going to say after someone breaks your child's arm while trying to take their food out of their mouth? Don't think that's going to happen? Good luck to you! Better stock up on extra beans for them now while you can.


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## rickd203 (Sep 11, 2005)

I may not be able to take out all 30 zombies but the few that are left will sure wish they picked an easier target to loot. Right now I'm looking for a Ruger mini-30 with as many 20-30 round clips as I can get. When I finally get my pistol permit, I will be looking for a couple Glock handguns. I'm also thinking about a match grade .223 rifle to put down zombies at 1,000 yards. For now I will have to make due with my Winchester model 94 rifle, my Remington 870 shotgun and my Sterling .380 handgun. I have been looking for people that might want to join with me so we could take turns keeping watch at night but so far, I haven't had any luck. I'm probably going to end up going with a couple German or Anatolian shepards to keep watch at night.

Of course, I haven't overlooked the other prep items I will need. My pantry and medicine chest are packed as tight as I can get them. I had an empty spare bedroom that's quickly filling up with preps. I'm filling 5 gallon gas containers that I keep in the garage. There are plenty of streams around here so I have water purifiers instead of stockpiling large quantities of water. I do keep about 30 gallons of water for times when I can't get to the stream. There are a lot of other things I'm also doing to prepare for whatever may be coming but you get the general idea.


:lonergr:


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## Spinner (Jul 19, 2003)

I stock ammo mainly for the purpose of butchering goats, rabbits, etc. for food and eliminating varmints that would eat my "on the hoof" food storage. 

There are a LOT of well armed homes with ex-military men between me and civilization, so I figure very few, if any, raiders would ever make it this far. Any raiders that try to get thru the woods and over the mountains to get here will have to deal with the bears, wild boar, and other hungry animals in the woods. Many of the city people would end up being a midnight snack long before they got to my place. The few that are savvy about living in the wilderness, might make it, and those are the ones that might be worth recruiting to live on the homestead to share the work & food. That's assuming they get past all the other places to mine. I live almost in the middle so the chances of them arriving here first are slim.


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## stranger (Feb 24, 2008)

Michael Kawalek said:


> I don't think you have ever experienced what desperate people who haven't eaten for several days will do for food. It won't happen at first, but these people will quickly figure out that your family is still well fed. What are you going to say after someone breaks your child's arm while trying to take their food out of their mouth? Don't think that's going to happen? Good luck to you! Better stock up on extra beans for them now while you can.


 I have experienced it and am going to die trying to make sure no one in my family ever does right down to the GGk


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## lorian (Sep 4, 2005)

Texican, your post makes sense. Listen to this story.

The Amish in this area have been having a bit of their own SHTF situations. The following was told to me in "confidence" by an Amish woman. She didn't want anyone (local) to know this story because they are officially "pacifists".

There have been quite a string of robberies in this area of late and all of them are targeting the Amish. Until they started (secretly) fighting back. Store after store and home after home (especially of the more affluent Amish) were being burglarized. About 12 hits in a 2 month period in a 20 mile radius.

One evening the aforementioned Amish family heard a car pull in to the end of their long driveway and when they looked they saw no car lights. Wife then saw a small flashlight poking around their shop area. Husband grabbed the shotgun and quietly went after the car. After hearing (and probably seeing) the husband and his gun, the intruders took off.

ALL the Amish have guns for hunting, but not until they started showing their fire power did the intruders stop robbing. The criminals stopped when they realized the pacifists weren't really as pacifistic as they thought. 

If zombies think the "country folk" aren't armed, they will go after them. Everyone I know in these parts of PA has a gun, usually at least 5 or more. Our neighborhood alone
would be able to fend off intruders (okay, I don't know about intruders with grenades!)
for quite a while.
Yep, God and guns for PA!


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## seedspreader (Oct 18, 2004)

lorian said:


> Yep, God and guns for PA!


Amen!

We'll need all the help we can get here in Pa to counterbalance the millions that live in the Big cities on the east end of the state.


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## lorian (Sep 4, 2005)

seedspreader said:


> Amen!
> 
> We'll need all the help we can get here in Pa to counterbalance the millions that live in the Big cities on the east end of the state.


Yes, and if only we could get the anabaptists to VOTE we could counterbalance the Big city liberal vote as well.


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## ailsaek (Feb 7, 2007)

*raised eyebrow* I'm as liberal as they come, but I'm fine with you all keeping your guns. I don't have one, but we (as in a fair subset of this forum) hashed that one out a few months back and decided that with a child with Down Syndrome in the house, I was better off with a protective dog (which I have).


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## TxCloverAngel (Jun 20, 2005)

well we needed lots of ammo during Ike for several reasons....
to protect our livestock from the packs of dogs that were loose and running looking for prey/food.
also to protect our generator from thieves.. they were out just like the dogs....
people had food stolen, houses emptied.
it was not pretty.

protecting your family, your livestock, and your home IS YOUR job in a disaster... no one else will do it for you. 

also.... you can hunt for food with a gun....


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## Ruby (May 10, 2002)

I guess this would be a small "hijack of the thread", sorry for it but I would like to say something. Last week a friend that I go to a club with got her house broken into. Someone knew they would be gone for the week and they broke in and stole MOST of her husbands guns. Evedienty they were planning on coming back because they left two on the bed covered with a sheet.

I would suggest not telling people what all you have. (Her husband goes to a small cafe every day for coffee with his friends, I think someone overheard them talking about their guns.) It is a very small town, probably less than 10,000 people. So who ever it was probably was local.

Also all his guns were in a gun cabinet. We are planning on putting in a storage area that does not look like a storage area.

We live in a community that only has one road. It makes a large loop and goes out the same way. Hopefully we can get lots of the people here to all pitch in together to defend it. Kinda like the "Lights Out" book.


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## Hike4beer (Aug 18, 2006)

brosil said:


> It's your duty as a citizen to kill as many raiders as possible before they take you down so that there are fewer to attack your neighbors, giving them a better chance for survival.


Very well said, thank you. And thank you Mr. Hagan for a great post.


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## WolfWalksSoftly (Aug 13, 2004)

Ruby said:


> Last week a friend that I go to a club with got her house broken into. Someone knew they would be gone for the week and they broke in and stole MOST of her husbands guns.
> 
> Also all his guns were in a gun cabinet. We are planning on putting in a storage area that does not look like a storage area.
> 
> ...


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## InfantryNCO (Feb 10, 2008)

rickd203 said:


> When I finally get my pistol permit, I will be looking for a couple Glock handguns. I'm also thinking about a match grade .223 rifle to put down zombies at 1,000 yards. For now I will have to make due with my Winchester model 94 rifle, my Remington 870 shotgun and my Sterling .380 handgun.


You need a permit to own a pistol? Wow. Just wow.

Also, if you're looking to make _effective_ 1,000 yard shots, you might want to think about something a bit more potent than 5.56.

Just sayin.


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## rickd203 (Sep 11, 2005)

InfantryNCO said:


> You need a permit to own a pistol? Wow. Just wow.
> 
> Also, if you're looking to make _effective_ 1,000 yard shots, you might want to think about something a bit more potent than 5.56.
> 
> Just sayin.


Yes, I know what you're saying. The worst part is that my background check is done so all I'm waiting for is the interview. Whenever the PD feels like it, they will send a detective around to "inspect" my property and decide if I get the permit. In other words, my constitutional rights are not guaranteed, they get to decide what rights I have. I had less problems getting a TS security clearance than this pistol permit. 

A 5.56 may not be too effective at that distance but it will make them think twice about coming any closer.


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## unregistered29228 (Jan 9, 2008)

We have to get a permit for a handgun here, too. You apply with the sheriff, get approved in a day or two, then take your permit to the gun shop. We didn't have to have someone come snoop around our property before we could buy one - I'd be outraged.


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## seedspreader (Oct 18, 2004)

wow, when did all these "handgun" permits come into existence?


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## FL.Boy (Dec 17, 2007)

That's why you just buy out of the paper etc.


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## Chuck R. (Apr 24, 2008)

seedspreader said:


> wow, when did all these "handgun" permits come into existence?


When I lived in RI we had to take a class, just to get a permit to buy a pistol. Then we got to wait the 10 days to get approval via the old background check through local LE.

For comparison, last night I stopped by our post skeet club to get a copy of their FFL for a rifle I ordered, found out they had got in a shipment of SIG P6s, and walked out with one 10 minutes later. 

As for bullets, I shoot competitively, so it's not uncommon for me to have a few thousand rounds per match caliber depending on where I am in the reloading cycle. 

Chuck


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## unregistered29228 (Jan 9, 2008)

When we lived in Connecticut, on the Massachusetts border, it was nearly impossible to get a handgun. I did get a couple of rifles there but it look everything except a blood sample to get the permit.

I understand a background check, although I don't like it, but to deny citizens without a felony or even a traffic ticket on their record just doesn't seem right.


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## Cabin Fever (May 10, 2002)

seedspreader said:


> wow, when did all these "handgun" permits come into existence?


It started with the Brady Bunch...it you catch my drift.


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## Cygnet (Sep 13, 2004)

Just as a comment out of left field -- but in an extended SHTF scenario I worry as much about dog packs as I do about the human element.

We're having major economic trouble in my little neck of the woods. A very significant percentage of houses in the closest town have been repo'd and as best we can tell, the abandoned pets are ending up running in packs. The packs are aggressive, fearless, and have killed numerous animals. They could easily be a threat to people -- and they ARE a threat to both gardens (they'll eat veggies) and livestock. 

A few shotgun shells go a long way towards reducing that threat. "****!" just doesn't work. 

I also have a decent air rifle -- it's relatively quiet (about like a nail gun) and useful for discretely hunting small game. I sure wouldn't want to shoot that shotgun if I didn't want to attract attention to myself. It sounds like a cannon.


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## Michael Kawalek (Jun 21, 2007)

They are already a problem. Our neighbor, the owner we bought our land from, is a rancher and in 2007 he lost three head of cattle to dog packs. This is not something your typical suburban neighbor ever has to think about!


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## Cygnet (Sep 13, 2004)

Michael, I lost six goats overnight a few feet from my bedroom several weeks ago. Never heard a thing. Had major vet bills on one of the survivors. So I take dog packs really seriously. 

We have enough of a problem with them that my next door neighbor has taken to sleeping in the bed of his pickup to protect his animals. He's shot several, I've shot one (unfortunately, with the air rifle, but it may have been a killing shot because I got it in the lungs and haven't seen it since), the teenager behind me said he shot two dogs three weeks ago, and another neighbor two houses down has shot a few more. And that's just in our little tiny corner of the country, and in the last couple of months. 

And I take them really seriously -- about four years ago, someone had a pet zebra (!) killed by dogs. And one of my neighbors lost an emu about a month ago. They've killed horses, too. 

If TSHTF it'll be ten times worse.


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## Reddirt (Apr 9, 2008)

rickd203 said:


> Yes, I know what you're saying. The worst part is that my background check is done so all I'm waiting for is the interview. Whenever the PD feels like it, they will send a detective around to "inspect" my property and decide if I get the permit. In other words, my constitutional rights are not guaranteed, they get to decide what rights I have. I had less problems getting a TS security clearance than this pistol permit.
> 
> A 5.56 may not be too effective at that distance but it will make them think twice about coming any closer.


Not sure where you are but here in N.E.O.K., the only permit you have to get is if you want to carry concealed.


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## dhammer (Jul 28, 2008)

It makes sense to me that a family will need both beans AND bullets to get by when the SHTF. 

However, our best chance to survive.. and not just survive but thrive is to band together with our neighbors. It will extremely difficult to go it alone for any extended amount of time. Groups of people, working together, sharing skills and resources .. this is going to be our future.


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## Cascade Failure (Jan 30, 2007)

Mom_of_Four said:


> When we lived in Connecticut, on the Massachusetts border, it was nearly impossible to get a handgun. I did get a couple of rifles there but it look everything except a blood sample to get the permit.
> 
> I understand a background check, although I don't like it, but to deny citizens without a felony or even a traffic ticket on their record just doesn't seem right.


Although I thoroughly disagree with the idea of a permit (thought the 2nd A covered that...) a CT permit makes it a breeze to purchase a firearm. Fill out the standard forms, a quick telephone background check, fork over some cash and take the new child home to meet its siblings.


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## unregistered29228 (Jan 9, 2008)

Cascade Failure said:


> Although I thoroughly disagree with the idea of a permit (thought the 2nd A covered that...) a CT permit makes it a breeze to purchase a firearm. Fill out the standard forms, a quick telephone background check, fork over some cash and take the new child home to meet its siblings.


I'm not sure what you mean. Four years ago I purchased a .22 rifle at Walmart in Connecticut, and it wasn't simple. I filled out the form, had to come back 24 hours later (supposedly a "cooling down" period) with driver's license, proof of residency, and it seems like they took my picture but maybe I'm dis-remembering that part. Then the manager had to carry the gun out to my car, and I wasn't allowed to buy ammo unless I left and came back.

All that for a .22. Handguns required a permit from the Sheriff before purchase.


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## rickd203 (Sep 11, 2005)

Reddirt said:


> Not sure where you are but here in N.E.O.K., the only permit you have to get is if you want to carry concealed.


I understand your confusion. I am NE of OKC, WAY too far for my liking.


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## magnolia2017 (Dec 5, 2005)

TxCloverAngel said:


> protecting your family, your livestock, and your home IS YOUR job in a disaster... no one else will do it for you.


Well said! 

Maggie


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## Cascade Failure (Jan 30, 2007)

Mom_of_Four said:


> I'm not sure what you mean. Four years ago I purchased a .22 rifle at Walmart in Connecticut, and it wasn't simple. I filled out the form, had to come back 24 hours later (supposedly a "cooling down" period) with driver's license, proof of residency, and it seems like they took my picture but maybe I'm dis-remembering that part. Then the manager had to carry the gun out to my car, and I wasn't allowed to buy ammo unless I left and came back.
> 
> All that for a .22. Handguns required a permit from the Sheriff before purchase.


I am guessing you didn't have a CT pistol permit. I am also guessing that someone was giving you a bit of the old run around.

Anyone who is considering buying a firearm in CT should check the following link. It is to the State Police Special Licensing and Firearms unit.

http://www.ct.gov/dps/cwp/view.asp?a=2158&Q=294488&dpsNav=|


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## seedspreader (Oct 18, 2004)

Cascade Failure said:


> I am guessing you didn't have a CT pistol permit. I am also guessing that someone was giving you a bit of the old run around.
> 
> Anyone who is considering buying a firearm in CT should check the following link. It is to the State Police Special Licensing and Firearms unit.
> 
> http://www.ct.gov/dps/cwp/view.asp?a=2158&Q=294488&dpsNav=|


LOL, well in many places in America it's even easier... you walk into the store, do the background check, given them your money and buy whatever you want. Long Guns, Handguns, ammunition, or all at the same time.


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## Cascade Failure (Jan 30, 2007)

seedspreader said:


> LOL, well in many places in America it's even easier... you walk into the store, do the background check, given them your money and buy whatever you want. Long Guns, Handguns, ammunition, or all at the same time.


Like I said in an earlier post...

"Although I thoroughly disagree with the idea of a permit (thought the 2nd A covered that...)" 

That being said...the CT permit could be worse.


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## longshot38 (Dec 19, 2006)

Beans, but why bullets? 


because the fella with the bullets will come looking for your beans when his family gets hungry.


dean


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## Michael Kawalek (Jun 21, 2007)

Mom_of_Four said:


> I'm not sure what you mean. Four years ago I purchased a .22 rifle at Walmart in Connecticut, and it wasn't simple. I filled out the form, had to come back 24 hours later (supposedly a "cooling down" period) with driver's license, proof of residency, and it seems like they took my picture but maybe I'm dis-remembering that part. Then the manager had to carry the gun out to my car, and I wasn't allowed to buy ammo unless I left and came back.
> 
> All that for a .22. Handguns required a permit from the Sheriff before purchase.


Filling out the state form itself is easy. Requires less information than a credit card application. Showing your ID and a power bill is just a way to make sure you're not trying to buy firearms out of state illegally.

Part of the hassle you describe is Walmart's policies, not the state's. Walking the gun to the door and not buying ammo at the same time is a Walmart policy. That's the price you pay when you do business with a store like Walmart!
Michael


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## CarolynRenee (Jan 30, 2008)

You guys forgot one of my favorite "essential" Three B's....

Beans, Bullets and Bum wipe!!


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