# LGDs puppies, how many and what age??



## Aussierancher (Jan 2, 2012)

At present we are just building our flock of sheep. So we don't have a lot of sheep at present, but we are planning to add more to the flock in spring and will also have lambs born in spring. 

I have a 12 week old Pyr female. She came from a small farm where her mother ran with a few goats and chickens and father belonged to a neighbour and pretty much guarded the whole neighbourhood by the sounds of things as well as bred any females that weren't locked up. The puppies had not run with any livestock at all.

I got her at 9 weeks of age and put her in with 3 gentle ewe lambs. She screamed like she was having her throat slit when she first saw the sheep and they came near her. Within an hour she was snuggled up with the sheep and content. It didn't take her long to accept them and now just over 3 weeks later, she seems very well adjusted. She is happy to see me every morning and night when I feed her and the lambs, but she doesn't want to leave the barn at all, she wants to stay with the sheep. She is locked in the barn with the sheep, but when I go to leave, she runs straight back to the sheep. She actually bonded to the sheep before she would have anything to do with me. For the first week she would run to the sheep as if for protection when I went into the barn. Now she is used to me as I am the one that feeds her, she is happy to come up for a scratch and I make a point of handling her all over, her paws etc, looking at her teeth, so that she will be fine for nail trimming etc. I also take the working border collies up to the barn to socialise her with them so that she accepts them and grows used to them. I don't know if what I am doing is right or wrong, as I have read many articles and there seems to be differing opinions on this. 

I have been told that with the amount of coyotes here, we need at least 2 LGDs with the sheep once we expand our flock. I am a little dubious about getting adult dogs, I have spoken to a number of people about dogs already working and I know that a lot are probably fine, but I am also aware of many dogs that have not had the right start with guarding duties and I don't need any problems. I would prefer to take the time and start with pups. Until the pups are old enough and mature enough to guard the flock, I will continue to expand our flock and let them out to graze during the day and lock them up of a night.. which is a chore but it must be done.

I am contemplating getting an anatolian in a month or two which will have been raised with sheep. Should I put the two puppies together or is this just asking for trouble. Should I put the anatolian puppy in a separate barn with a couple of quiet lamb ewes the same way I have with the Pyr??? I hear so many conflicting reports of .... the negatives that I hear... two puppies will bond with each other and ignore the sheep..... the two puppies will both want to chase and rough house the sheep when they get older..... The positive... two puppies will keep each other company..... two puppies are more likely to play together and leave the sheep alone..... two puppies will learn to work together...... Now there is probably no right or wrong answer as each dog is different and whilst some puppies may never really rough house with the sheep, others just might. But I would like other people's opinions on which is the best way to go in this situation. Whether to run them together or not? If keeping them separate, should I just separate them with a cattle mesh fence so they can still see each other? If keeping separate, what age should they run together? If one gets a little to boisterous with the sheep, should I put the dog in with the rams that are quite ornery?


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## MonsterMalak (Apr 15, 2011)

You are right with the confusion. There are positives and negatives in both situations. 
I would recomend something inbetween. Have the pups seperated unless you are there to supervise them. 
With you there, you can correct any play behavior. 
Pairing them with livestock the right age will help if they do start playing. 

I would have to say that most successful placements are when pairing a pup with the older LGD.

The Kangals and Boz I raise seem to be past the play age by 6 months old. Are fierce defenders by 10 months.
You would do good by getting the Anatolian... The Turkish breeds are truely different type of LGD than the Pyrenees.


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## hopefloats688 (Sep 8, 2011)

If you have a coyote problem you will surely need 2 LGDs. It takes a year or so for a good LGD to develop and if you have a coyote problem I would suggest you get an older LGD to pair with your pup. Have you ever thought of looking into an LGD rescue? 

Great Pyrenees Rescue of Iowa 
Phone: 319-446-6050

The gal who runs this tests her dogs for at least 4-6 months before she places them into adoptive homes. They are usually dogs who have some experience where the owners moved away from the farm or they have too many to care for.


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## wendle (Feb 22, 2006)

Looks like you are off to a very good start. Tight pens/fences are important. Don't let them think they can get out. When I first started using lgds one of my borrowed dogs was a wanderer and knew how to get out of fences. Some dogs will stay tight with their sheep no matter the fences though. I am really liking the 3/4Pyr 1/4Anatolian cross for a lgd. I have been using one to protect the flock for a few years, then just purchased a new pup of a similar cross this past week. It is better with two dogs for your size flock, or if they are separated in different pens. I also have border collies and do outside training and lessons so the lgd tolerating herding dogs is important. I have found my lgd still does a great job and knows the difference between a coyote and herding dog. At the same time he has a low tolerance for herding dogs who hassle the sheep, but even when protecting his sheep from them he has always been reasonable, and hasn't hurt them. The herding dogs are not out with the sheep when I am not around , which probably helps him know the difference. I wouldn't raise the pups together either, but at some point you want to introduce them as well. I like the idea of picking a small group of sheep as the pup's very own. Eventually you put that group of sheep the pup has bonded with together with the rest of the flock. I picked some of last year's lambs that I knew were less skittish than some of the others and that aren't bred for this year's lambing. I didn't want pup to have to deal with protective new moms at her age. My pen for the pup is located near the house so I can watch her.


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## HappyFarmer (Jun 17, 2006)

WE have a 3/4pyr1/4 Anatolian and yes there is a difference compared to the full pyrs.

When we first bought our (above) first pup at 5 months, she did really well, even corralled my small herd of goats in the middle of the pasture, wouldn't let them go anywhwere. I figure she was unsure of her new surroundings so wanted to keep them where she could see them.

Anywho, when she reached 12 months we had some chasing issues. We weren't there all the time, typical pup behavior. We bought our 2nd, just 2 months her senior, and overnight those 2 were the best, most well behaved guardians just like I read about. I really think the older dog gave her the guidance she needed, though she was only older y 2 months.

In my opinion you would do better waiting or obtaining an older dog - in our case it didn't need to be much older, but older. Pups are a pain to train yourself. I'm hoping to keep a young one up-and-coming from now on, I never want to go through that puppy faze again. We really lucked out in that our 2nd dog was good with birds in addition to livestock, so she influenced the next pups in training who are good also.

HF


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## wendle (Feb 22, 2006)

The older dog, if he's a good dog will help raise the pup. My current lgd doesn't like it if anybody upsets his girls. This would be a big help if/when pup goes through a rough play or chasing stage. This is besides being a mentor. 
Here's a very good article on raising pups and choosing a breed of lgd. 
http://www.nal.usda.gov/awic/companimals/guarddogs/guarddogs.htm


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## Maura (Jun 6, 2004)

When you are petting the dog, get the clippers out and Give a little treat. Touch each paw with the clippers. Do this for a couple of days then clip one nail of each foot, just 1/8 inch. Get each foot every day, after that just touch paws with the clippers until they need to be clipped again. I would also feed her one meal a day in your car or pick up for a few days, then use a few kibbles in the vehicle, then drive her around a little. It's great that she's so bonded to the sheep, but she'll need to be vetted, may get injured, etc. Get her to follow you around the farm, again using her kibble and treats. She should feel comfortable everywhere on the farm and feel that it is hers. Teach her sit and down and a "go home" to send her back to the barn, and a "go sheep" to send her back to the sheep when they are outside.

Also, I missed the photo.


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## thaiblue12 (Feb 14, 2007)

Since you have not expanded your flock and such yet, I would wait and keep working with this one, then later get another. 

Playing together is a good thing and burns off puppy energy, you just do not want them doing that to the sheep. Two close to the same age and training level tend to get into things more, including trouble  
I have my house dogs and LGD out together so they never confuse my personal dogs with strays and go after them. They know the difference when a stray dog comes along and go after it. An intact yellow lab showed up here one day and they body slammed him to the ground, he has not been back since. I had seen him quite a few times before I got my dogs always running loose and going in the same direction.

Since she is doing well with the sheep, keep working with her and let her be the older one when the time comes to get another. I am less trusting in getting an older LGD since I had a bad experience with my first ones who were already "trained", yea right in running away and killing poultry. 

I like my Great Pyr-Anatolian mixes since they bark less and are less wandery then Pyrs. Anatolians are a bit more agressive then Pyrs and some claim not as accepting of other dogs. The mix seems to have a good balance in my boys' case and I like it. Although the one who looks more Pyr does like the sound of his own voice, but it is not excessive or I would probably go nuts. The older one who is more Anatolian looking one ignores his barking for the most part unless it changes pitch or the guineas scream, then he will run over and check it out.


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