# Need a new green bean to plant



## WoolyBear (Nov 9, 2011)

For at least the past 18 years we've planted blue lake bush beans. They always made a nice bushy plant. You'd bend over, lift up the side of the plant, the beans would hang down in nice clumps and were easy to pick. 
Now in the last 3 years when we've planted the blue lakes we've been getting beans that shoot off tendrils all over the rows. When we go to pick the beans you have to untangle the plants and fight your way into the rows and the beans :flame:. It's not where we buy the bean seeds from, because I've bought seeds each time from different places and even a different state. 
So after this years battle once again with the bean jungle I'm giving up on the blue lake beans, after I went and picked the dry pods and shelled out the beans - sigh.
What type/name of bean would you all recommend? What I would like is a bush bean just like blue lake. Tender, no strings, kind of long (some of the blue lakes would be 6-8+ inches long), and taste like a green bean (saying this because I recently made wax beans for the first time and didn't care for the flavor of those).
Thanks for any help or suggestions you can come up with.


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## Paquebot (May 10, 2002)

Somewhere along the way, you switched varieties and either didn't realize it or weren't growing Blue Lake before. There's Blue Lake, Blue Lake 47, Blue Lake 156, Blue Lake 274, Blue Lake Stringless, Blue Lake Black Seeded, Blue Lake Oregon, and Blue Lake White Seeded and that's just a start. What they have in common is that all but the numbered ones are pole and thus supposed to run or climb. If you want a bush Blue Lake, you have to look for a number as part of the name.

Martin


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## WoolyBear (Nov 9, 2011)

Egads what a variety. Always went to the hardware or feed store and just asked for blue lake bush beans. They never had a number with them. Now I'll have to research all the numbers. Thanks for the info.


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## northergardener (Dec 12, 2007)

I really like Jade green beans myself. 
They are resistant to rust, and they just keep producing.


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## WoolyBear (Nov 9, 2011)

Did some quick researching and decided on the blue lake 274. I think that is what we used to plant before. Just need to know if I can save seeds from them for future planting or are they a hybrid?


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## Paquebot (May 10, 2002)

There are no hybrid beans. Only time that a hybrid is made is in breeding. Thus you can save any bean. I've got Blue Lake 156 and like it. Nice slim pods with small white beans. Top Crop is my favorite for production and easy picking but the pod is a lot fatter than some like. Contender is another nice one and somewhere between the two. I'd suggest growing 3 or 4 kinds and then decide which you like best.

Martin


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## Knight9 (Dec 29, 2012)

Paquebot said:


> There are no hybrid beans. Only time that a hybrid is made is in breeding.


I'm not sure that's true. You can get beans that are F1 hybrids. They will display the characteristics they were crossed to contain. However, if you save the seeds, you are not guaranteed to get the same offspring, as the F1xF1 output will vary. 

Or, i could be forgetting my genetics


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## Paquebot (May 10, 2002)

Knight9 said:


> I'm not sure that's true. You can get beans that are F1 hybrids. They will display the characteristics they were crossed to contain. However, if you save the seeds, you are not guaranteed to get the same offspring, as the F1xF1 output will vary.
> 
> Or, i could be forgetting my genetics


I have never seen a hybrid Phaseolus vulgaris variety for sale. The only time that they are intentionally made are for breeding. If you have beans that are crossed in your garden, then you would indeed have an F1. However, that would now be a new variety and remain stable until crossed with something else or genetically variable. The latter are natural bicolors or tricolors. For example, Grandma Roberts Black Pole is a tricolor. Plant black seed and get black, brown, or white. Plant brown and get black or brown. Plant white and get brown or white. 

Martin


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## bja105 (Aug 25, 2009)

My Blue Lake were only labeled "Blue Lake Bush," no numbers. They grew like bush beans, and produced well. Who knows which variety they really are, I believe Martin that the bush types are numbered.

I suggest you try Provider. It is a productive, good tasting green bean. The seeds are dark red when dry.


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## Paquebot (May 10, 2002)

Burpee and Hume both have a variety Blue Lake Bush. Bonnie has one Bush Blue Lake. Baker Creek has Blue Lake Bush 274. Clear as mud, eh?

Martin


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## WoolyBear (Nov 9, 2011)

Ok it gets a bit more interesting. Went down today to see about any more tomatoes and found a bean vine growing over top the tomato cages. This is not a blue lake bean as far as I know. But the only place the bean plant could have come from is from the blue lakes next to the tomatoes. The pods are flat and fat towards the tips. And the seed from one of the pods is the first one below the tape measure. The seed below the fat seed is one of the blue lake seeds that we had left over.
(fingers crossed that the pictures posts)









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## Paquebot (May 10, 2002)

That looks like a late-season Blue Lake in shelly stage. Late blossoms may not fully pollinate themselves and end up with only a few beans. Should dry down to normal size. 

Martin


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## 1shotwade (Jul 9, 2013)

O.K., so I've been following this thread 'cause blue lake is all I've raised for a while and want to change up some.For the past 5-6 years I only put out 1/2 of seed and in that I will get maybe 20-30 plants that seem to me like half runners. The are certainly not a bush type been.I plant by hand and never see or feel a difference in the seed I'm putting down, so I have always assumed these "rough" plants were the result of the seed reverting back to one of the parent plants.
Every time I pick beans I end up with these flat beans off these "Half runner" type plants. It is very obvious they are a different bean.They do not fill out if left on the plant and they are a very tough and very stringy bean.And they are exactly like the picture above.
As far as I have known, blue lake is blue lake. I didn't have a clue there were so many kinds of blue lake.And I have never seen this rough type plant prior to 5-6 years ago.Hope this helps confuse things!LOL. I'll continue to monitor this thread and maybe get the real story of what's happening. Wade


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## Paquebot (May 10, 2002)

As mentioned in my original reply, they were just a start. In addition to Blue Lake 274, a bush type, Jung's also has Blue Lake FM1 and Blue Lake S-7 Stringless which are both pole types. Easy to just mentally see the Blue Lake name and assume that it's what one really wants. Blue Lake has been around for a long time and there's someone always tinkering with it to improve something or other. Besides, a bean variety should be something that a person only buys once as they are about the easiest to save.

Martin


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## WoolyBear (Nov 9, 2011)

Thanks again Martin for the info. I have a pound of these blue lake "bush" beans left from this year. If anyone is interested in them I'll mail them off to you. No way I'm going to plant these again. Too much aggravation when trying to pick them. Or maybe if someone has any "274" to swap for them :gaptooth:. 
In all the years we bought bean seed they never had any numbers with them, just bush or pole lol. I think the stores are just as confused as we are. 
I do know that once I find the bean I like I will be saving the seeds. Especially after looking online, $12-15-20/pound


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## geo in mi (Nov 14, 2008)

1shotwade said:


> O.K., so I've been following this thread 'cause blue lake is all I've raised for a while and want to change up some.For the past 5-6 years I only put out 1/2 of seed and in that I will get maybe 20-30 plants that seem to me like half runners. The are certainly not a bush type been.I plant by hand and never see or feel a difference in the seed I'm putting down, so I have always assumed these "rough" plants were the result of the seed reverting back to one of the parent plants.
> Every time I pick beans I end up with these flat beans off these "Half runner" type plants. It is very obvious they are a different bean.They do not fill out if left on the plant and they are a very tough and very stringy bean.And they are exactly like the picture above.
> As far as I have known, blue lake is blue lake. I didn't have a clue there were so many kinds of blue lake.And I have never seen this rough type plant prior to 5-6 years ago.Hope this helps confuse things!LOL. I'll continue to monitor this thread and maybe get the real story of what's happening. Wade


Same here. I am not so fastidious to save my own seeds yet, so I have gotten 'strays' in Blue Lake 274, from one company, and also in Maine Yellow Eye (Kenearly) from another. My theory would be a combine, truck, or bin that had not been properly cleaned out...... The Federal Seed Act requires that only the original grower/producer(or importer) certify that "reasonable" precautions were taken to insure the seeds are true to type and variety. That would be okay, but in the definitions of terms part of the FSA, all that has to be certified for a shipment of garden beans is that they are "phaseous vulgaris"---and no further, as to common name. So, if the mixed seeds are white, and go through the cleaning screens....who's to know until you find out? 

When I'm planting, I don't always take time to look at or feel each one, so they get mixed in the row. So, I get a few Great Northerns, or Navy beans that I have to rogue out, if I catch them. It would be nice to know you get what you paid for, though.

geo


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## Gretchen Ann (Aug 30, 2010)

I've grown blue lake bush 274 for years, but the last several years I haven't like them. They weren't the same.

This year I planted slenderette and I was very pleased with the production and length. They kept producing all summer long too. Forget blue lake any number, I'm a slenderette woman now.


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## RomeGrower (Feb 27, 2013)

We planted Jade from Johnnies this year and they have been great.


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## Paquebot (May 10, 2002)

WoolyBear said:


> I do know that once I find the bean I like I will be saving the seeds. Especially after looking online, $12-15-20/pound


You apparently haven't followed my annual seed offers. Haven't counted how many bean varieties that I've offered but past two had a lot of them. Due to USPS rate structure, recent ones have been just about an ounce each of 3 varieties. Postage and material costs welcomed but not mandatory. I was looking at an Internet friend's site yesterday to see what he had for beans, $2.50 for half-ounce. The thing that you have to remember is that no matter what they cost, it's a one-time investment. That's why there are some bean varieties which have been around for 100 years or more. If you buy a pound now at $12, and grow them for 10 years, that's a $1 per year. 

If you want a bean which is the easiest to harvest, you won't find them in any normal seed catalog. They'll be in Harris Moran, Seminis, Ferry Morse, and others who supply canning company growers. Those types put clusters of pods on at one time and every one is the same when mechanically harvested. If picked by hand, one can fill a 5-gallon pail in 10 minutes by grabbing a handful in each hand. I've done it! 

Martin


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## TRellis (Sep 16, 2013)

During this past summer I was looking for some more Bush Blue Lake 274 seeds and happened upon a seed pack of Bush Blue Lake 47 that was also labeled as an "_improved Blue Lake 274_". I purchased them because I could not find what I wanted.

Well, they did grow but they grew much more similarly to a runner or half runner bean type and the pods looked very similar to those shown in Woolybear's photos. Not sure if I will try those again.

TRellis


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## WoolyBear (Nov 9, 2011)

Years ago we had a blue lake bean that grew like this... plant produced like gang busters. We harvested 10 bushel off of 4 60foot rows. Plants then kind of died back in the heat of August. We left the plants alone and then in September they would bounce back and we would get another good picking off of them in the fall. 
Never thought much about saving seeds until I discovered these forums. Now I'm getting a bit fanatical about it, lol. 
Martin I'll try and remember to keep an eye out for your seed offers when it comes time.


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## Paquebot (May 10, 2002)

There are some bean varieties where the growing instructions are to nip off any top which looks like it wants to climb. That forces them to remain a bush. Most of the regular bean varieties began as climbers in Nature and may try to revert to that manner. That's not always a good thing. Didn't know that 30+ years ago when I had an obvious climber in a row of bush yellow wax beans. I thought that that was neat and saved some seeds to grow as a pole type next year. They took off for the sky and soon up into a mulberry tree and loaded with pods. That was a good thing. Bad thing is that all of the pods were an almost half-circle. Only put up with that for several years before abandoning the idea of a new variety.

Not certain what offer XIII will have for beans. Probably will be just clearing out the 2012 stock which also wasn't very big. Pole types will especially be in short supply as I'll have to start over next year on many of them. We'll see what I come up with sometime in early January.

Martin


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## a'ightthen (Mar 17, 2012)

274 is a fine bean ...










As is Top Crop ...










Bountiful ...










Brittle Wax ...










Royal Burgundy ...










But our favorite is Contender ...










Find one that you like ... and keep the seed


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## a'ightthen (Mar 17, 2012)

But do not overlook going "up" ... 

Kentucky Wonder is famous but it tends to get stringy fast here ..










Kentucky Blue is combo of Kentucky Wonder and Blue Lake and is a fine bean ...










But Fortex is our favorite pole bean ...


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## Paquebot (May 10, 2002)

Good to see that someone else likes Brittle Wax. That has been really prolific both times that I've grown it and holds up well when canned. And yet, it has been probably the least-requested. Carson may produce for a longer time but won't match Brittle Wax for overall harvest. 

Got a chance to sample a new one this year, Nikki. It's a green bush type and with real straight pods only about 5" long. They were the most expensive that Jung's had this year and only 1-ounce for smallest packet. However, tiny seeds meant more than any others that were offered. I plan on growing it next year as it was indeed a gourmet delight.

Martin


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## mammabooh (Sep 1, 2004)

Paquebot said:


> If you want a bean which is the easiest to harvest, you won't find them in any normal seed catalog. They'll be in Harris Moran, Seminis, Ferry Morse, and others who supply canning company growers. Those types put clusters of pods on at one time and every one is the same when mechanically harvested. If picked by hand, one can fill a 5-gallon pail in 10 minutes by grabbing a handful in each hand. I've done it!
> 
> Martin



After I read this last night, I looked these companies up online. Am I correct in my assumption that the beans they offer are GMO beans? If so, do you know of any non-GMO beans that might come close to the easy pickabiblity of these beans? 

I have been astounded at the rapid decline of my poor body after turning 40, so finding something easier to pick would be delightful! Maybe I should just build some raised beds that are about 4 feet high...


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## Paquebot (May 10, 2002)

There are no GMO beans. Those varieties created for commercial growing are designed for easy mechanical picking and heavy crops. Many aren't available in garden packets but Burpee and Veseys both have Gold Mine.

Martin


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## mammabooh (Sep 1, 2004)

Paquebot said:


> There are no GMO beans. Those varieties created for commercial growing are designed for easy mechanical picking and heavy crops. Many aren't available in garden packets but Burpee and Veseys both have Gold Mine.
> 
> Martin


Thanks. I will do some reading about Gold Mine.


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## a'ightthen (Mar 17, 2012)

Paquebot said:


> Good to see that someone else likes Brittle Wax. That has been really prolific both times that I've grown it and holds up well when canned. And yet, it has been probably the least-requested. Carson may produce for a longer time but won't match Brittle Wax for overall harvest.
> 
> Martin


 Makes for a pretty mix too


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## Paquebot (May 10, 2002)

a'ightthen said:


> Makes for a pretty mix too


Same thing is standard here, both green and yellow canned together. This year it was Kentucky Wonder Wax and Louisiana Purple Pod. (For canning, purple pod beans are greener than green.) 

If one wonders at the number of varieties connected with Blue Lake and others available from home garden seed companies, that's nothing compared to those available to commercial growers. For example, Harris Moran has 42 varieties and Seminis has 43. 

Martin


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## WoolyBear (Nov 9, 2011)

I was putting a travel bag away that I had used back in the spring, guess what I find in the bag. A pack of rattlesnake pole beans that I bought in south carolina that I forgot to plant. Guess I have a new bean to try next year. Anyone grow these? if so, how do they taste?


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## Ed Mashburn (Jun 24, 2013)

Good evening to all- I've tried a lot of different green beans through the years- I always try one or two varieties new to me each planting season.
Season in and season out, I have had very good results from Contender green beans. They come up reliably, and the plants produce a good yield, and when they are done, they're done.
Good tasting beans, too. Try Contender and see if they suit you.
Good gardening to all- Ed Mashburn


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## farmer9989 (Apr 22, 2008)

WoolyBear said:


> I was putting a travel bag away that I had used back in the spring, guess what I find in the bag. A pack of rattlesnake pole beans that I bought in south carolina that I forgot to plant. Guess I have a new bean to try next year. Anyone grow these? if so, how do they taste?



They are a good dry bean and geen but don't expect it to produce like blue lakes.


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## DJ54 (Jul 27, 2013)

Have you ever tried the Roma II's..?? I planted some 4-5 years ago, and again this year. since it is the first chance I had to plant a garden again. Very large flat beans, heavy producers, and great taste.

The picture is of the third planting I planted the last week of July, just to see if they would produce. As you can see, they did pretty well. No fertilizer used at all, other than 4 drenchings of compost tea, made from composted leaves.

Those rows are 50' long, and each row produced 1, 5 gal. bucket, plus 1, 10 lb. basket, each picking. I picked off of them 3 times, neighbor's once, and still produced up until the frost got them last week. More went to waste, than was picked. Offered them to whoever would pick them for free, but people are just too lazy to do that it seems...

I got my seeds through Southern States. Great seeds, and pretty decent prices. Last year I ordered seeds I believe in March, and there was free shipping, with no minimum purchase. Seeds were shipped via Priorty Mail, and arrived 3 days after ordering. Will definitely order from there next year..!! 

http://www.southernstates.com/catalog/c-1043-vegetable-seed.aspx


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## WoolyBear (Nov 9, 2011)

DJ54 I'm a bit prejudiced about my beans. They must be round, not flat, lol. Round is all I've known for 50+ years. I don't even care for yellow wax beans (and I just had some a few weeks ago). Wax beans seem to mild and bland. 
Is this what happens when you reach your 50's? you get green bean picky?


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