# Nickel-Iron Edison cell batteries



## ryanthomas (Dec 10, 2009)

Anyone have any experience with these? Otherwise known as Edison cells (may actually be a bit different, but close enough). They are very pricey to buy new, as it seems only one company imports them to the U.S. But I've heard there are some out there from Edison's time that are still working. Just wondering if anyone has any seen any of the old ones in use.

Batteries are really the weak link in my goals now. I am trying to minimize the need for batteries without a grid-tie system. It sure would be nice to have something that will last my whole life. Apparently efficiency is lower than lead acid, but the lifespan would make up for that in my opinion. But they're around ten grand for a little over a kilowatt-hour capacity. I wonder if it would be worth it to find an old set that still has life in them. Most anyone who has any wouldn't want to sell them if they're really that great, though.


----------



## pancho (Oct 23, 2006)

I worked in a power plant that had a bank of batteries installed when it was built. That was 1949 and they are still as good as new.


----------



## Harry Chickpea (Dec 19, 2008)

I checked into trying to make my own. Getting pure nickel sheeting or screen is amazingly hard.


----------



## ryanthomas (Dec 10, 2009)

I looked into that too. Nickel is also very expensive, which is probably why the batteries cost so much. I haven't totally given up on that idea, but it's probably not going to happen.


----------



## wy_white_wolf (Oct 14, 2004)

http://www.windsun.com/Batteries/Battery_FAQ.htm#Starting, Marine, and Deep-Cycle Batteries



> Battery Construction Materials
> .... NiFe (Nickel-Iron) batteries are also available - these have a very long life, but rather poor efficiency (60-70%) and the voltages are different, making it more difficult to match up with standard 12v/24/48v systems and inverters. The biggest problem with NiFe batteries is that you may have to put in 100 watts to get 70 watts of charge - they are much less efficient than Lead-Acid. What you save on batteries you will have to make up for by buying a larger solar panel system. .....


They work great in power plants and for telephone companies were they are held on float for long periods and seldom cycled (used). But a very poor choice for a home system that will be cycled daily. 

P.S. - I work at a power plant with many banks of them.


----------



## Jim-mi (May 15, 2002)

A friend has a bank of Edison bats that he stumbled apon . . for very reasonable.......
They have sat there in his shop for a few years now (uncharged) just waiting for a "rainy day" project.
He will NOT part with them..........

Yes a 100 'in' and 70 'out' is about right . . for years & years & years.........

Finding a old used bank of Edisons nowadays is gonna be rare.....

In the >BIG< price range there's several good options that I probably would choose over the Edison's........


----------



## ryanthomas (Dec 10, 2009)

wy_white_wolf said:


> http://www.windsun.com/Batteries/Battery_FAQ.htm#Starting, Marine, and Deep-Cycle Batteries
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Can you tell me more about why they are not good for daily cycling? I didn't know power plants had batteries. That's interesting. Are they for demand surges, or for running the controls in an emergency, or what?


----------



## ryanthomas (Dec 10, 2009)

Jim-mi said:


> In the >BIG< price range there's several good options that I probably would choose over the Edison's........


Just out of curiosity, what would be your choice if price was no object?


----------



## Jim-mi (May 15, 2002)

1. GNB Absolyte IIP
2. IBE Power-Plus
3. HuP Solar-One
4. East Penn Deka Unigy II
5. Rolls/Surrette 2KS or 2YS series.

All the above are good choices.
A bank will be in the $20K plus area (depending on size of course)


----------



## TnAndy (Sep 15, 2005)

Jim-mi said:


> 1. GNB Absolyte IIP
> 
> A bank will be in the $20K plus area (depending on size of course)


Unless, of course, you shop carefully...... 

1200amp/hr @24v 3,000lbs


----------



## wy_white_wolf (Oct 14, 2004)

ryanthomas said:


> Can you tell me more about why they are not good for daily cycling? I didn't know power plants had batteries. That's interesting. Are they for demand surges, or *for running the controls in an emergency*, or what?


Simply shutting off fuel and steam flow creates one big bomb! Backup power is to safely bring a unit down in an emergency. We would have more banks but with 4 units we can usually get backup power from one of the other units. In 7 years I've never seen all 4 units go down at once but it could happen.

I see you only picked up 1/2 of my statemant and I propably should have used different wording. "home system that will be cycled daily"

But just for starters:

1. Like stated "100 in 70 out" on top of any other ineffecienies. One could end up with an array almost twice the size as needed when using LA batteries.

2. Slower charge rates. This is kinda the killer on solar systems. Most northern areas do not have long enough days for a normally "proper" sized system to charge them. It's generally prefered that one runs on the top 20% of the batteries for off-grid. With the lower charge rates one has to design to run on the top 5% to 10% or plan on running a genny daily to help charge them.

3. When Nickel-iron batteries start to "gas" they slightly drop voltage. This can cause a real problem with "thermal runaway" (batteries overheating) if the system is not properly designed and monitored. Constant Voltage charge controllers can reek havic on them if you set the voltages to high. They also need constant monitoing when equalizing.

4. I'll be quiet about the abilities of most homeowners. It's hard enough for them to weed out the scrupulous solar dealers/installers without the added burden of trying to figure out Nickel-Iron batteries.

All that said. There is alot of promising research being done on them. I do see them as a possiblity in the future. But for the money Jim-mi pointed out far better options. Unless you can get them for free and are willing to learn, I just don't see any advantage in them for most.


----------



## wy_white_wolf (Oct 14, 2004)

There has been a couple of good discussions about them at the solar power forum I visit.

http://www.solarpowerforum.net/foru...le-iron-batteries-longer-life-than-human.html

http://www.solarpowerforum.net/forumVB/off-grid/4509-nickel-iron-batteries.html

I think you might have to be a member to view the threads though.


----------



## ryanthomas (Dec 10, 2009)

Thanks for that information. What I have read about them basically says they're perfect in every way except for low efficiency...but that's all written by the company selling them. I am actually relieved to hear that they're not as good as I had heard. Now I can cross that option off the list, which simplifies things. Thanks for the info on better options, too. For some reason I want to avoid lead acid batteries, but that's probably where I'll start anyway. Thanks again guys!


----------



## Jim-mi (May 15, 2002)

"Abilities of most homeowners"----and the lack of . . .
Real quick like I recall 3 systems that I installed . . . the 'homeowners' neglected their batterys . . . .then the phone call to me--"It ain't working".....duh . . .

So if you have a mind to putz with your system daily yes you can make something with Edisons.
But a "plug and play" type person should stay away from Edisons for all the Good posts/reasons that WWWolf has pointed out.

Yup Andy . . .prudent shopping pays off . . .thank you............
They are awesome....

I don't speak too much about my system because it can be discouraging with the all to prevalent attitude "A car battery is good enough and CHEAPER"


----------

