# help a sister out? :D



## kinnb (Oct 23, 2011)

heyas, HT hive mind! so it's been over a decade since I've been physically around any guns or owned one. (not averse, I have involuntary tremors that make things difficult and possibly unsafe.)

that said, I'm currently living in KY with no leash laws. we have strays allllllllllllllll the time. I need to scare them off, as I have two service dogs, who have been trained not to engage, but it's not all up to them if poo hits the wind tunnel.

what's a decent airgun, hand only, not a rifle/cartridge/air pump, or something like it, that I can fire into the air? 

any ideas kindly appreciated. also, a fence is not an option right now. I'm always out with my pups when they are out, and I check before we go out, but even so, no guarantees.

thanks!


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## RJ2019 (Aug 27, 2019)

Oh god, please don't get a gun. Fire up in the air?!


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## kinnb (Oct 23, 2011)

it's to scare the strays off. I've had guns before, just not since I developed the tremors. I'm not out to hurt the strays, just to scare them off. 

thanks for the input!


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## Danaus29 (Sep 12, 2005)

PEPPER SPRAY

A few problems with your plan:
1) Air guns can be as dangerous as a regular gun.
2) Air guns don't make much noise and may not scare the dogs.
3) Pellets fired in the air have to come down. Shooting pellets at their feet would be more effective.

Pepper spray won't injure them but it will make them think twice about harassing you and your dogs. Just circle them around so the pepper spray is blowing away from you.

Edited to correct #2


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## wil14 (Sep 13, 2020)

A cheap .22 cal air rifle in the $140 range will be VERY loud without a pellet but unless you're on your own land I wouldn't walk around cavalierly with one. There is no danger from pellets or bbs falling back to earth but I'd shoot into the ground to avoid any danger of accidentally shooting towards something you aren't aware of. I have less experience with newer air pistols but the modern air rifles I've shot sound almost like a gunpowder rifle going off without the sonic boom.

If it's your own land, I dont see a problem with one but you need to be aware that modern air rifles shot at a dog are capable of killing it or injuring it badly. The pepper spray might be more effective but honestly I'd carry a 22lr and actually shoot the dog if it turns very brutal and is attacking yours on your land. Sounds like you need a 22lr or 22 mag pistol. Shooting the ground is fine. If you have handicaps or are physically impaired I would carry and not hesitate to shoot the dog in a bad situation.


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## barnbilder (Jul 1, 2005)

Sonic dog repellents are highly effective.


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## kinnb (Oct 23, 2011)

@Danaus29 I am indeed also considering pepper spray! thank you, and I appreciate your caveats 

@wil14 I'll take the 22lr under advisement, and yes, I don't want to hurt the strays unless they attack, then all bets are off 

@barnbilder hadn't considered that, will check into it!

knew I could count on the HT hive mind!! open to more ideas, products, etc if anyone else has anything. thanks so much!


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## Gayle in KY (May 13, 2002)

I use an air horn to scare my neighbor's dogs. Dollar General has them and they're cheap (like around a buck)


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## kinnb (Oct 23, 2011)

@Gayle in KY oh.my.dog. DUH. have no idea why that didn't even cross my mind _chalks that up to the brain damage_ That can definitely be an easy starting point, at least for the deterrent factor. Thank you!


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## 67drake (May 6, 2020)

I also don’t think there is a reason to get a gun, powder or air, if you aren’t actually going to shoot them. Firecrackers would be louder and cheaper than a pellet gun. The air horn is an idea too.


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## kinnb (Oct 23, 2011)

@67drake yeah, I think I would really only want to shoot them as a last resort IF they attacked. I would like the option to have one just in case it does come down to that. agreed that the air horn makes the most sense first. I can't do firecrackers around my older dog, unfortunately (the younger one doesn't care, lol). 

so it sounds like the best plan is an airhorn and then start looking for the aforementioned 22 as my oh shizz backup. 

y'all are the best!


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## RJ2019 (Aug 27, 2019)

67drake said:


> I also don’t think there is a reason to get a gun, powder or air, if you aren’t actually going to shoot them. Firecrackers would be louder and cheaper than a pellet gun. The air horn is an idea too.


And safer.


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## GREENCOUNTYPETE (Jul 25, 2006)

when you can shoot a dog varies from jurisdiction to jurisdiction in some you would basically have to place yourself between the stray dog and your dogs and if it got aggressive with you to the point you feared serious injury if you didn't shoot.

our mail man states the air horn works the best USPS employees are not allowed to carry weapons at all 

so when my neighbor started working for the Census he gave her one of the small air horns 

I would try that first

what is around your house , how far to the next house are real things to think about 

any time you shoot ,shooting down so that the bullet impacts the ground on a miss if you hit a rock you can still get a ricochet.

a shotgun with #4 shot will kill dogs at close range but has very little ricochet danger. 

a gun will be loud ,are you still going to have issues with your older dog.

if you are not shooting the dogs to stop them from harming you or your dogs then it probably isn't the right option for you.


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## Danaus29 (Sep 12, 2005)

I'll correct my statement, air rifles don't make a lot of noise. This site gives decible levels of several air guns,




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Decibel ranking of airguns - Straight Shooters Precision Airguns






www.straightshooters.com





If you let off a blast with the air horn would you be harming or scaring your dogs?
Firecrackers, unless you have time to set one off on the ground and back away they would be dangerous and might not work like you want. Firecrackers are not safe if they go off in your hand. Maybe you could use those snappers that pop when they hit the ground instead?

You might try a paintball gun. It stings and notifies you of repeat offenders.


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## kinnb (Oct 23, 2011)

@GREENCOUNTYPETE Tao doesn't seem to care about gunshots, never has...firecrackers are another story, go figure, hehe. I'm def buying an airhorn next store trip. will take all you said into consideration. 

@Danaus29 well, there is that, the paintball gun, also something I hadn't considered. I'll check that too! Both dogs have been exposed to airhorns with generally a quick startle and recover, so I think they'll be ok. we absolutely will work on that as soon as we have one in our possession. thanks for that link also!


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## backwoodsman7 (Mar 22, 2007)

Gayle in KY said:


> I use an air horn to scare my neighbor's dogs. Dollar General has them and they're cheap (like around a buck)


Air horns' volume is well into "permanent hearing damage" territory, for both you and the dog. If your ears don't hurt when you blast it, it's because your hearing has already declined some, which would seem to make it important not to jeopardize what you still have.

I had a paper route when I was a kid. There were always 1 or 2 dogs I just couldn't make friends with. So I carried a cap pistol that used the round plastic caps that are a little louder than the paper roll caps. One shot from that, and they never bothered me again.


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## GREENCOUNTYPETE (Jul 25, 2006)

Paint balls may work well but could be considered harassments also I get your a dog person but people could easily miss understand the dog they let roam freely and are breaking multiple laws returns home with several paint splats , now the police are out looking for the animal abuser who is shooting dogs with a paint ball gun you could keep your paint balls in the freezer they hurt more this way and don't often splatter.or maybe find a rubber ammo 

rubber buck shot might be an option 

if you watch some of the riots one of the more effective tools was CS ball guns 

basically it is a 68 caliber paint ball marker rather than 63cal that shoots pepper balls a powder inside a capsule when it hits a person puffs and it is a very targetable longer range way to dispense tear gas or pepper powder.

LifeLite - Introducing Potent Non-Lethal Protection. this company makes some personal CS ball guns that look like flash lights

cs ball would not leave a splat but it may leave powder residue 

bear spray may also be a good option if they get close and aggressive


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## Wyobuckaroo (Dec 30, 2011)

I am indeed also considering pepper spray! thank you, and I appreciate your caveats  

+++
Pepper spray... Works well, but the use of that might be twisted around as being considered a weapon.. 
Hornet, wasp long distance 30' spray work OK. Much cheaper option..


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## Wyobuckaroo (Dec 30, 2011)

Forgot to add.... Refillable spray bottle with house hold ammonia.. Mix with hot pepper oil, water, a few drops of dish soap... All kinds of common ingredient things that may be useful..


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## ScottOz (Mar 10, 2020)

RJ2019 said:


> Oh god, please don't get a gun. Fire up in the air?!


Read this wrong at first. Agree 100%


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## GREENCOUNTYPETE (Jul 25, 2006)

things are definitely different in CA than most of the US in the US teen girls walk around with personal size pepper spray around their necks and in any National park or hiking area that may be around bears bear spray is the choice. 

Law enforcement is extremely forgiving in the carry and use of pepper spray for anything that could be considered self defense , if it wasn't a vindictive use , if it wasn't used to disable a victim of robbery and the user had any reasonable fear of harm. 

technically peppers spray is a weapon basically the same as carrying a gun in most places in the US as the law applies in reality 13-14 year old girls walk down the street with a personal pepper spray around their neck on a lanyard in the US you can buy it at nearly every hardware store convenience store sporting goods or big box store.

the personal ones only reach a few feet

I would every time you see one start calling it in report dog at large , if they com close and get aggressive take a picture with your phone start the dialog now with police so that when you have to do something more it is well recorded the problem offenders.


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## RJ2019 (Aug 27, 2019)

I'd like to know a little more about exactly why fencing isnt an option.


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## GREENCOUNTYPETE (Jul 25, 2006)

Joe Biden told her is was a good idea on national TV to fire the gun in the air 


worst advice ever he is an Idiot and soon to be Idiot and Chief


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## Danaus29 (Sep 12, 2005)

Joe Biden told his wife to fire into the air, probably hoping his secret service body guards would then consider her the threat and take her out. I have believed that was his intent since he made that idiotic statement.

I never considered paint balls could be possible animal abuse or harassment. In Ohio, last I read, you had to be doing something to a dog that was on it's property. But then Ohio has a state wide leash law and nuisance animal laws which would protect a person who shoots roaming dogs with paint balls.


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## kinnb (Oct 23, 2011)

thanks, everyone!

to clear things up...Biden didn't tell me to fire anything in the air, LMAO!
I think I was thinking of a flare gun/starter pistol type thing with scaring off the strays. That's where the "firing in the air" came from. 

as to the fence, I rent. my two are boundary trained and very reliable. it's not them, it's the strays. 

I already had it out with animal control once since I moved here. they were quite less than helpful, so this is why I'm solving the issue myself.

agreed on the bear/wasp spray. I already keep that in my vehicle as a deterrent. I can definitely do that as a beginning step. rubber bullets/the other paintballs sound worth investigating as well.

I do appreciate all who replied sincerely trying to help me out. thank you kindly!! 

Peace,
Kyrie, Tao Blue SD AKC CGC CGCA CGCU TKN PAT, Deja Blue SD AKC CGC CGCU TKN PAT


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## Danaus29 (Sep 12, 2005)

I don't know about a flare gun. That might cause more problems.

I did not know they use starter pistols with blanks for training dogs. That just might be an option.

Too bad you can't set up an electric fence with a remote on/off switch. Flip it on when you see the dogs coming. I bet they wouldn't bother you again.

Unfortunately not every state has leash laws. Your state leaves dog control up to each little govt entity. Good luck solving the problem.


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## RJ2019 (Aug 27, 2019)

Renting isn't really a reason to not have fence. A few t posts and cheap welded wire is easy to do and you can pull it up when you move. I've put fencing in at 2 rented places now.


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## wkndwrnch (Oct 7, 2012)

It sounds like great ideas have been brought up! I wanted to bring up the carcass disposal factor. If you do create a carcass,it will have to be removed,buried. There is the three S rule, but if digging a hole is an issue,maybe the pepper spray or one of the other options would work.


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## kinnb (Oct 23, 2011)

What needs to be fenced is WAY too large for my budget, and I would have to hire it out, so it's moot. I did the t post/wire fence for my lots in FL and it cost me $800 and $1000 respectively between the supplies and labor. Believe me, I would prefer that rather than the rest of this.

I'm a fan of the SSS rule  It looks like I have plenty of options to work on now so I'm hoping it won't come down to that.!


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## RJ2019 (Aug 27, 2019)

kinnb said:


> What needs to be fenced is WAY too large for my budget, and I would have to hire it out, so it's moot. I did the t post/wire fence for my lots in FL and it cost me $800 and $1000 respectively between the supplies and labor. Believe me, I would prefer that rather than the rest of this.
> 
> I'm a fan of the SSS rule  It looks like I have plenty of options to work on now so I'm hoping it won't come down to that.!


Why does the entirety of the property need to be fenced for a pair of dogs? You can just fence in a yard area to let the dogs enjoy without strays invading

I'm not trying to be mean, really. But doesn't it make more sense to put a fence up before harassing other people's dogs? This heads off potential legal problems as well. I can't imagine you'd be too popular within your community for hazing other people's dogs, stray or not. Especially without so much as making an effort to exclude the dogs with fencing. Today's society is very intolerant of that sort of thing.


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## RJ2019 (Aug 27, 2019)

....


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## Wyobuckaroo (Dec 30, 2011)

I would every time you see one start calling it in report dog at large , if they com close and get aggressive take a picture with your phone start the dialog now with police so that when you have to do something more it is well recorded the problem offenders. 
+++
Yes... Good documentation with police over a period of time is golden, IF, WHEN it comes to finely getting an issue resolved..


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## kinnb (Oct 23, 2011)

@Wyobuckaroo exactly my plan! caught three strays in the front yard this morning and hollered em off before anything got stupid, video as well. 

@RJ2019 I hear every point you've made so far. I'm not out to harass, just keep everything as safe as I can while allowing my dogs their space in their own yard. I really can't afford the fence, which is why, in my OP, I made that "not an option" clear. If I could, I would never have even started this thread. it's not a question of "hazing." owners do need to take responsibility for their own animals, and they clearly are not, so all I can do is keep mine safe. (I'm not trying to be difficult or mean either, and we may just have to agree to disagree!  )

Peace,
Kyrie, Tao Blue SD AKC CGC CGCA CGCU TKN PAT, Deja Blue SD AKC CGC CGCU TKN PAT


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## barnbilder (Jul 1, 2005)

Tazer works too. You can let the little blue sparks crackle a little, and they will keep their distance.


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## Danaus29 (Sep 12, 2005)

If other people's dogs are harassing the op, the op has the *right* to protect themselves and their dogs. What gives other people the right to let their dogs roam uncontrolled and tear up and crap in other people's yards?


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## GREENCOUNTYPETE (Jul 25, 2006)

Danaus29 said:


> If other people's dogs are harassing the op, the op has the *right* to protect themselves and their dogs. What gives other people the right to let their dogs roam uncontrolled and tear up and crap in other people's yards?


no argument she has the right in my mind , but there are places where exercising your rights in this country now come with an up hill battle to justify yourself.

your life can be verbally threatened , then you are chased down , fall to the ground and an already convinced felon try and take the gun from your hands and you shoot him to keep that from happening and he dies and because he wasn't equally armed your sitting in jail defending a first degree intentional homicide charge. crazy mixed up times we live in.


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## Danaus29 (Sep 12, 2005)

You have a good point. Defending yourself against a person is a road to trouble. Even with proof the other person was trying to kill you. Even standing in your own yard with a gun when faced by a crowd of protesters will get you in serious trouble.

The op has said these are stray dogs, no owners. But even so, there are bleeding hearts that think a rabid dog is worth more than a human life. 

It is sad that you almost have to have a lawyer on retainer that can advise you about how to protect yourself from a stray dog on your own property.


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## GREENCOUNTYPETE (Jul 25, 2006)

honest to god stray dogs , don't live all that long , I am willing to wager someone is feeding at least some of these dogs and many may call them their dog. 

when the "stray dogs" were in my Grandpas pigs eating some of them alive they recognized a few of the dogs from area farms. no one said a word about or they would have been buying pigs 


it was farily common for farm dogs in the 1980s in our area to be there when the owner walked out the door in the morning and when he walked in the door in the morning but off on their own in between.

funny they made a law here around the late 80s you couldn't shoot a dog chasing a deer , why because it was getting so common for a pack of dogs to run a deer down, people were shooting them left and right , the owners would get all mad that there dog was shot. stupid but only a warden can now shoot a dog chasing deer.


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## Danaus29 (Sep 12, 2005)

I was sure I had read it was legal in Ohio to shoot dogs that were chasing deer but now I can't find the regulation. Maybe the law was changed in Ohio too. I did find a story where a hunter did shoot dogs running deer on his property. That didn't turn out well for the hunter.








Groundbreaking decision in Ohio sentencing hunter to jail for shooting family's dogs


A Belmont County, Ohio hunter was sentenced on Monday to six-months in jail and three years probation after admitting to shooting and killing a family's two dogs while the man had been hunting in December 2016. Michael Chedester of Clairsville, was sentenced under the Goddard's Law (House Bill 60) m



petrescuereport.com





But it is legal in Ohio to kill a dog that is menacing a person or livestock or domestic animal other than a cat or another dog.




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Section 955.28 - Ohio Revised Code | Ohio Laws







codes.ohio.gov





The op is not located in Ohio. I do not know the laws regarding roaming dogs in their area.

Unfortunately, even if you do everything by the book, someone can still press charges or sue you for the loss of their beloved pet. Even if they really did not own or care for the beloved pet.


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## kinnb (Oct 23, 2011)

@Danaus29 all of what you and @GREENCOUNTYPETE just discussed. That's why my first thing is to scare them off, and all of you gave great feedback as to how to do that. Really not out to do hurt or worse UNLESS there's an attack. 

also thinking about game cams out there just as a CYA if push came to shove. takes the hassle out of having to manage dogs/deterrent plus phone. 

Peace,
Kyrie, Tao Blue SD AKC CGC CGCA CGCU TKN PAT, Deja Blue SD AKC CGC CGCU TKN PAT


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## Danaus29 (Sep 12, 2005)

I saw a water ball gun that made me think of you today. I thought if you could freeze the balls they just might sting enough to made the dogs back off. Unfortunately the little pellets soak up the water inside the gun, no way to soak them then freeze them.


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## kinnb (Oct 23, 2011)

@Danaus29 that's brilliant!


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## GREENCOUNTYPETE (Jul 25, 2006)

I had an idea , you want to harass problem dogs to get them to leave 

a simple sling shot if you can use one very inexpensive under 10 dollars you would have to practice some 

the sling shot with wrist brace you can get a rock 10 yards moving adequately to discourage.


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## kinnb (Oct 23, 2011)

@GREENCOUNTYPETE that is a wonderful idea!! I can try that...I'm not sure how well it will play out with the tremors, but I bet I could stabilize the base against the brace or something along that line to avoid dropping it. thank you for that! 

Peace,
Kyrie, Tao Blue SD AKC CGC CGCA CGCU TKN PAT, Deja Blue SD AKC CGC CGCU TKN PAT


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