# Question...



## mamajohnson (Nov 27, 2002)

I have asked this on the Homesteading section, but want to ask ya'll, as I feel we are more of a close knit group. (seriously, no pun intended!)

DH and I have been pondering retirement in another state, say, further north. Any recommendations? We would prefer low taxes, cheap land and a good water source, a good place for the fiber animals & chickens.

He is thinking Wyoming. I am thinking, wide open plains and blizzards....maybe not....


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## frazzlehead (Aug 23, 2005)

You want wide open with blizzards, cheap land, and lotsa water?

That's Saskatchewan.


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## Marchwind (May 10, 2002)

The Dakotas?


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## bergere (May 11, 2002)

Not sure there is cheap land any where, now a days. Have lived all over the US... and places that weren't literally a swamp.. costs $$$.

Couple of examples...
Loved NW Oregon, up in the hills we did tend to have snow and ice in the winter,, was colder up there than in the valleys.
The property taxes are high... however, there is no sales tax, car registration is cheap...
No other stupid taxes.

If you do not want to deal with tons and tons of stupid taxes, stay well away from Virginia. Its crazy....
While the property taxes are fairly cheap... they tax you to death on everything else. You even have to pay taxes twice a year to park your cars on your property! And it is spendy.
Oh and if you want to draw/paint..you know be an Artist... you need a State tax id... two business licences,, one for the state and the other for the county you live in AND you have to pay a permit fee... in which gives them the right to come into your house to inspect it any time they want. 
The heat and humidity is hard on the animals and is tough to grow things here... between the heat and the level of bugs...
Man I miss Oregon. 

If you do not want to worry about water... NW Oregon or NW WA. You are not going have to worry about not having enough water.
Both states are great for sheep and other livestock. Had beautiful kitchen gardens and small orchards....around 30 trees... it was wonderful there.


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## Wind in Her Hair (Jul 18, 2002)

well, you already know how I feel about Minnesota :grin: - yes, taxes are high, yes, politics is all over the map (city vs rural), and yes, the climate is challenging. (Personally, I LOVE it!)

The good news is - WAGES are high(er) than anything I ever experienced down south, but LIVING expenses are high as well (real estate, taxes, cost of goods trucked in) but heating costs are substansially less than cooling costs in the south. 

This climate will give you a workout but it also instills in you a connectedness to the land and to nature that you may never have experienced before (*especially *if you live rurally). 

If the rolling prairie and farmland calls to you, western Minnesota is the ticket - if pine forests call to you, northern Minnesota, if rocky glacial lakes are your thing, north central Minnesota, if the Big Lake Superior calls to you, then check out Duluth and Two Harbors or Grand Marais (if I had to move, it'd be to Grand Marais.:goodjob: )

North Dakota is a gold mine right now with the oil field boom but real estate prices in the area of the oil fields is higher than a cat's back and extremely inflated. Still, those oil fields are the land of opportunity for many folks. 

South Dakota and Nebraska and Iowa are nice enough (*Iowa Lez* could give you more info on Iowa) - but a tad bit too open and "farmy" for me - not enough in the way of trees - as I prefer pine and spruce and tamatrack and fir and birch and oak and aspen/birch/poplar and maple forests.

And besides...

they don't get enough snow.  I can't believe I said that.

But if its gonna be cold and snowy - give me LOTS of snow - not just the troublesome, occasional, "nuisance" snows. I want a whole season of white. :grin:

I know that probably does not help - BUT, if you have a week or even a long weekend, I HIGHLY recommend that you folks consider running away and coming up and exploring the area - even if for a day or two. (By the way, you are MORE than welcomed to stay with us and use us as a leaping off point - we are 90 miles from Lake Superior, 4 hours from the Canadian border, 3 hours from eastern North Dakota or northern South Dakota, and you'd have to go right through Iowa to get here. 

Seriously. We'd love to have you. :kiss:

My philosophy about where you live is this - if you live in a place that feeds your soul and you love your life there- you never have to take a vacation from your life. Thats how I know I am where I am supposed to be. 

There are people who live in our area that take a huge hit on their big city salaries in order to live here. I am one of them. 
It is a trade off I have never regretted for even one second. 

A place can nourish your spirit and refuel you and make me more of who you already are - who you want to be. This place - and my time spent out in it - makes me more centered, balanced, calm and less stressed - and it makes it possible for me to face the hectic "work-a-day world" with peace and joy.

I used to be a powder keg, a stressed-out ticking time bomb. Thank God I lived long enough to find myself, my soul mate, and this incredible place. 

This morning, before I went to work, I watched a V of 22 Canada Geese flying over, honking as they went, I saw a pair of nesting Trumpeter Swans on the wetland, I was 10 feet from three fawns- close enough to see how they are changing hair coats for the season, I saw maples starting to blush and birch trees starting to turn golden, there was a mist rising off the river, I saw a bald eagle perched on a rock in the middle of that river - a rock left behind how many thousands of years ago by the advancing glaciers, and...we had to close the windows in the house because it was 46ÂºF. :grin:

No matter HOW much it costs me to live here, no matter HOW much I stand to lose to taxes, or the cost of living, or reduced income - it's worth it. Every penny.


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## Pearl B (Sep 27, 2008)

Might be some parts of Arizona that would be appealing.


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## mamajohnson (Nov 27, 2002)

Well we 'shopped' online a bit in Wyoming. Its soooo....treeless! 
We need trees. and water (running creek?) and not so hot. Oregon is sounding good, and Minnesota. But DH already said no Minnesota.  And WIHH makes it sound so perfect! 

Right now we keep bouncing back and forth. We don't want to leave the kids, so many grown and settled within 300 miles of us... and yet.... I think we are getting itchy feet. 

WIHH... you may find us on your doorstep!


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## hercsmama (Jan 15, 2004)

I hate to tell you this, but I'm right were you want to be...
Check out Nebraska, just do not tell any of the locals I told you so....

We have trees, rolling hills, lots of grass, decent water, 4 seasons,(I've only been here for two so far) and the people are just awesome. We bought 26 acres with two little houses,both fixer uppers, for 70,000 cash. Our property taxes are a little over 700.00 a year.
Yes, there is a state income tax, but the general cost of living we have found to be the same, or a little less than Texas. So worth the move, and we are just thrilled to be here.
But don't tell the locals I told you so....eep:


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## Wind in Her Hair (Jul 18, 2002)

mamaj, you would be most welcome and check with Marchwind - she might even have a homestead for sale just north of me! 

I HAVE to have trees - and not just clumps of little "wind breaks" like are scattered across Iowa. I need forests. FORESTS.

Now you tell that husband of yours not to say "NO!" to Minnesota too fast. 

As far as leaving the kids, that's something that all of us face. I left home at 17 and never looked back -not because I didn't love my folks but I figured out that we ARE where we ARE because of someone else's choice (usually our parent's) - we grew up and live where we live because of someone else's decision - we live and stay where we are because of its familiarity - it's a default setting. :shrug: 

I mean, think about it - we got where we are because some courageous Irishman or German or Scandahoovian got in a sailing ship and sailed across the ocean and embarked on a new continent. THAT is how courageous and adventurous (and desperate) our ancestors were -so why do we feel so obligated to stay somewhere we don't love!?!??!?!!??!

To move on - to explore - to pioneer- to get out there and see what else the world has to offer - to spread our wings and to explore what is beyond the tree tops - now THAT'S what I encouraged my children to do. I would NEVER want my children to stay near me and limit their lives and their pursuit of happiness out of obligation to me. And so, I know my children would not want me to do that either. Besides, if you live somewhere else, it gives your kids a really great place to come and visit and it becomes their own little vacation spot. Our kids LOVE the four seasons of Minnesota and they love coming to stay with us when they can. I think it has broadened their scope of the world.

One more thing to consider - being "retired" (or unemployed) changes everything about how you deal with heavy snowfalls. If you don't HAVE to get out when the roads are dicey or haven't been plowed yet - piece of cake. Stay home and enjoy it! If you HAVE to work, the roads get plowed pretty promptly. IF it snows on a weekend, then maybe only the main roads are plowed before we leave for work at 6:30am. Four wheel drive is (IMHO) necessary but lots of folks pass us all the time during the snowfalls in 2 wheel drive cars, so... your mileage may differ. 

We get snow, but it isn't all at once. It accumulates, then it kind of settles and packs down - and for the most part, our roads are clear (we are driving on dry asphalt) most of the winter. We don't get the winds like they get across the plains of the Dakotas or Iowa so we don't get the "interstate closed" kind of blizzards they get in those places. Our forests tend to block the wind. 

In 10 years of working up here, I have never missed a day of work or even been late to work because of the snow. We have never cancelled a day of patients because of the weather. But I have left to go home early on occasion (2 or 3 times) because I didn't want to be driving home in the dark in a blowing snowstorm. :grin:

We REALLY look forward to the day we are retired so that we don't "have to" get out and clear the snow before we go to work.


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## IowaLez (Mar 6, 2006)

My PC keeps having problems and shuts down when I'm mid-post, so will do a few short ones instead of a long single one.

Wyoming. Traveled thru it, vacationed in it, all across it and up and down it (out of boredom from taking the same route too many times) many, many times since 1999. Land is expensive and worthless for gardens, fruit or nut trees, or anything. Soil is not soil, it's sand, rocks, scrub chaparral, and tan colored. It takes 200 acres of average rangeland to feed one steer per year. Hardly any rain or snow. Water is not plentiful. Wells are deep. Streams and rivers and such are few. It is desolate, far from everywhere, no super Walmarts or shopping unless you're in one of the larger "cities" and that's pretty iffy. Gasoline and propane is expensive, property taxes are high, food is high, motels/hotels are unreasonably costly, and if you think you can find a cheap but beautiful parcel of land in any kind of desirable area, guess again. Tons of rural land is BLM and not purchasable. Lots of "Big Money" in Wyoming, and they take the best and most of everything anyone would want. Wind always blows, and trees aren't plentiful, either, except yes, in the mountains there are pines. Lots of coyotes to eat your cats and any young animals. The southern part of the state is ugly, and so are the towns. Been across the country on I-94, I-90, I-80 (gosh, maybe 45 times in the last 14 years?), I-70, I-40, and Route 66. Spent time in Buffalo, Wyo at the T-A ranch 3 times and spent time with the owners. Driven all the "scenic" roads in Wyo. It's beautiful up by Yellowstone, but that is expensive land, gasoline, remote and busy tourist areas, and you better have bucks to be there, even to just live simply. Yes, there is some hunting, but I don't think it's cheap to do it there.

My advice is to make a priority list of what things or activities are important to you, what services, and so forth, moreso than just asking about cheap taxes or cheap land. Make your list most to least important and take a good look at them. You pay a price for just cheapness, and it may not be to your liking.

Coming next, my opinions on MO.


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## Forerunner (Mar 23, 2007)

Somebody on this website has a signature line that rattles on to the effect;
"you's can say what you want about the south, but you never hear of anyone retiring and moving north".

Every time I read that I just wanna slap 'em.

If I ever move again, it will be north......maybe a little west or maybe a little east.....but definitely north.

Winters just don't scare me, yuh know ?


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## Wind in Her Hair (Jul 18, 2002)

I am with you, Forerunner. 

As I have said, if we ever _have_ to move - it will definitely be NORTH. MORE north than we already are - which is already further north than 75% of the population of Canada (just so ya know.) ​


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## Forerunner (Mar 23, 2007)

Maybe we could be neighbors. 

You could spin (maybe even bulky :grin: ) and I'll knit appropriately for the climate.


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## bergere (May 11, 2002)

Oh, if I had half a chance... I would head back to the NW Oregon hills! 
Only place that I have lived, that I truly loved!
Sweet smelling forests, no ticks or poisonous snakes, so you would could enjoy the woodlands year round.. beautiful sunsets...
Snow in the winter... just a magical place. 

The southern people can keep their south... I want to go back, North and West!!


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## cwgrl23 (Feb 19, 2004)

Forerunner said:


> Maybe we could be neighbors.
> 
> You could spin (maybe even bulky :grin: ) and I'll knit appropriately for the climate.


Can join ya all? I will spin bulky for you for ply up to bulky! I am even a decent cook/baker. LOL 

Carrie in SD


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## cwgrl23 (Feb 19, 2004)

Be very careful if you are looking at WY to retire!!! Stay far, far, far away from any of the mines or oil fields!!! I have friends that live there and it is rough. Think Tombstone, Wyatt Earp, Doc Holiday kinda rough. Lots of random gun shots not necessarily at anyone but it is hard to tell.

Now if you have questions about South Dakota, fire away. I am born and raised South Dakotan! I have lived on both sides of the river and believe me it is a big deal for some. We have just about every type of land you could want - farm, prairie, river bottoms, Badlands, Black Hills, etc. 
Most areas in SD have water to drill for. Some tastes better than others. Many areas have rural water or access to it. 

As far as cheap? What do you consider cheap? We have no state income tax. Many full time RVrs licence their vehicles here cause its cheaper. 

Carrie in SD


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## Bellyman (Jul 6, 2013)

cwgrl23 said:


> Be very careful if you are looking at WY to retire!!! Stay far, far, far away from any of the mines or oil fields!!! I have friends that live there and it is rough. Think Tombstone, Wyatt Earp, Doc Holiday kinda rough. Lots of random gun shots not necessarily at anyone but it is hard to tell.
> 
> Now if you have questions about South Dakota, fire away. I am born and raised South Dakotan! I have lived on both sides of the river and believe me it is a big deal for some. We have just about every type of land you could want - farm, prairie, river bottoms, Badlands, Black Hills, etc.
> Most areas in SD have water to drill for. Some tastes better than others. Many areas have rural water or access to it.
> ...


Carrie,

I am one of those fulltime rvers that call South Dakota "home"... for now. My wife and I are residents of Sioux Falls. Were just there a few weeks ago to renew my drivers license. 

I really like SD in a lot of ways. Can't say I've seen much in the way of small homesteads that would work well for us. I'm not much into "open farm land" like we saw in much of the southeastern part of the state. I wonder if heading westward out through the Badlands would find the kind of dirt one would need for good food plots.(??) Looks pretty barren for much of it. I've never gotten to poke around in the Black Hills so I don't quite know what it's like there. Is water plentiful there? 

What I like about SD from my own experience with the state is that they tend to pretty much leave us alone. Our vehicle registrations aren't exactly cheap and neither is insurance, but they're not over the top either. There's no state income tax. There's not vehicle inspections or emissions testing. It's just simpler, and I like that.

But I like lush green, hills and streams / creeks / springs, and lots of privacy. I don't know if that's possible in SD or not. You might know better than I would and if you feel like suggesting areas I should check out, I'm listening.


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## RedDirt Cowgirl (Sep 21, 2010)

Oklahoma? Some pretty hill country there, and right next to Texas...


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## cwgrl23 (Feb 19, 2004)

Bellyman said:


> Carrie,
> 
> I am one of those fulltime rvers that call South Dakota "home"... for now. My wife and I are residents of Sioux Falls. Were just there a few weeks ago to renew my drivers license.
> 
> ...


Look in the Southern Black Hills like Hot Springs area. If you don't need a job, the land is cheaper. Depending on where you are the dirt is good and water available. If you go too far into the Black Hills, you have to drill a well through granite if there isn't already one. Plus the City of Hot Springs has purchased Evans Plunge and is going to have it open year round for residents to use. Really good dirt will require you to look around either the James (Jim) River or along the Missouri River. Canton and the Newton Hills Park area is also quite pretty with good dirt. If you want the least amount of hassle go to the Hot Springs area. I that is one of the few counties left in the state that doesn't have building permits. At least the last time I looked. 

Let me know if you need more info!

Carrie


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