# Tincture ??



## Speckledpup (Dec 3, 2004)

:stirpot:I have 2 batches of Elderberry tincture going 1 made with vodka and the other with rum. :stirpot: (DH says the smell of the vodka and rum turns his stomach)



Now he wants to know can I make it with Jack Daniels, and I can't find anything that says I can or I can't.:shrug:


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## girlwithasword (Aug 10, 2009)

sure! 

I find if I age my berry tinctures a loooong time (6 months to a year) they get really mellow...so if your DH can't stomach those, let them ages a long long time, then mix it half and half with a simple syrup and you have a yummy elderberry coridal that goes down REAL smooth......


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## girlwithasword (Aug 10, 2009)

brandy is another yummy one to tincture with.....


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## Speckledpup (Dec 3, 2004)

Thanks girlwithasword for the response, I had given up on getting one.


After it has mellowd a couple more weeks he isn't noticing the vodka as much.

I'm getting conflicting info out there. 
Some sites says to let the berries seep 2-3 weeks others says 4-6 weeks. 
Some says that if you heat the berries you kill the medicinal properties. (hope not because I made syrup.

So how do you know which sites to trust?


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## happydog (May 7, 2008)

I made the elderberry tincture in vodka and aged it about a month before I got swine flu. After taking it the first day I developed a real aversion to it. (Well, it is 90proof and I'm not a drinker.) Just opening the jar made my stomach turn over.

What I did was put some in a glass teapot and very slowly and gently warmed it till it was about half evaporated. Then I let it cool and mixed some raw honey in it. That made a nice pleasant syrup.

To make the tincture I just put the berries in the vodka and leave it alone indefinitely. From what I read, the longer it steeps the better/stronger it is. I finished off one jar and then covered the berries with enough vodka to just cover them, and stuck it back in the root cellar. Should give me another batch of it even if it's maybe not as strong as the first.


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## goatlady (May 31, 2002)

LADIES!!!! The idea of using VODKA as a tincture base is because there are more alcohol molecules available to capture the medicinal properties of the herb you are tincturing. Using rum or ANY other type of alcohol will NOT give you a true medicinal tincture and most probably will NOT WORK as you expect - they will taste better but if you are depending on the tincture to help you through an illness you may be out of luck. CLEAR vodka and Everclear are THE tincture bases to be using, anything else is must making flavored liquers to enjoy on a cold winter night. Heating herbs slowly and gently will not hurt them but boiling them WILL kill the medicinal properties. Making syrup calls for gentle simmer as that is necessary to get the herb to release their needed properties into the WATER you are simmering them in. Longer soaking will not make a tincture stronger - once the alcohol molecules absorb all the properties they have room for longer soaking will accomplish nothing for the strength of the tincture. A good medicinally strong tincture is most usually completed within 10 days of soaking. Every "tincture" site has it's own "formulas". I don't have any "site" but I have had a tincture business on the Wewt Coast for many years, have many clients still, teach tincturing and herbal stuff and have NEVER had a complaint or negative response to my tinctures. I trained with some of the best herbalists long ago, several are deceased now, but what I learned from them were methods that HAVE stood the test of time, like decades and a few centuries of herbalism. You can do as you choose, just be aware you may be greatly disappointed in the results you get, or I should say Lack of results with your tinctures.


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## girlwithasword (Aug 10, 2009)

We can agree to disagree here  my experiences differ from yours. Which 
I think is the beauty of herbal medicine - we all get to experiment
and learn what works for each of us as individuals.


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## goatlady (May 31, 2002)

Very true, girl. Just remember you are not making medicinal tinctures the way you do it, you are making herb flavored liquers. Took me a while to unbderstand the chemistry of tincture making. I think if you will research MIchael Tierra, Christopher Hall, Mark Blumenthal, and The Commission E Monographs you will find absolute documentation for using vodka or Everclear in making medicinal tinctures. Those 2 alcohols produce consistently the most effetive medicinal tinctures which is the whole purpose of a medicinal tincture - safe, effective treatment of an illness/dis-ease. the experimentation certainly comes into play when choosing which herbs at what dosage will work best for you as an individual, but not really in the production of those choices. But, whatever you choose to bet your life on is your choice of course.


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## marinemomtatt (Oct 8, 2006)

Goatlady...you are so right! Any alcohol less then 50% AKA 100 proof is basically useless medicinally unless one wants to drink glasses full to get any benefit. Everclear at 95% is the best but "boy oh boy" just opening a jar of tincture slams me against the wall WHEW!
At a couple of Forums folks have been discussing '151' Rum but no one can agree if it's any good...except for causing a mean hangover...~lol~...


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## Mrs_stuart (Dec 24, 2003)

What about tinctures for children? Is there a way to use a "no alchol" version that is effective? I am talking about children about age 12-18 ish. 

Belinda


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## Step (Aug 4, 2005)

Am I glad this topic of Elderberries came up since I was just about to submit my order and planned on using the dried fruit to make kefir smoothies! I will not ingest anything with liquor in it!! I've never had a problem with alcohol but I do have an issue with concentrated sugars and carbohydrates, which all liquor contains! 

There is Cyanide in elderberry fruit and seeds!! That's probably why a higher proof of alcohol is needed along with the extended duration of time in order to fully denature the protein, making the cyanide benign.

For those who can't drink liquor or 'shouldn't', such as children, acetic acid of 5.4 pH or less also works to denature the cyanide and so does heat (teas and syrups)! 

However, heat also destroys Vit. C, with variables of course, but I don't imagine the short length of time the berries need to be boiled would destroy all of the Vit. C. 

Here's a site that gives instruction for elderberry tea and/or syrup... I'm sure there are others on the net as well, but this one had the brief info about cyanide which prompted my further research.


http://www.florahealth.com/flora/ho...encyclopedias/Elderberry.asp#TraditionalUsage

Suggested Amount: 
For treatment of feverish cold and flu: Unless otherwise prescribed, 3-4 teaspoonfuls (ca. 10g) of elderberry fruit are placed in water (ca. 150ml) and slowly brought to a boil for a short time and then allowed to stand for 5-10 minutes and passed through a tea strainer. A cup of the freshly prepared tea is drunk several times a day. The tea can be sweetened and lemon added to taste if desired. For cleansing and fasting, take 1-2 tablespoonfuls of elderberry syrup per day with plenty of liquid (1:10). 


Side Effects: 
Taking the raw or insufficiently cooked fruit of any species of elder causes nausea and vomiting due to the presence of cyanide within the fruit and seeds. Severe cyanide poisoning can lead to death so this is not a safe berry to eat raw.


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## beaglebiz (Aug 5, 2008)

elderberry is perfectly safe to eat raw. You should not eat the stems. Native american children used the hollowed out stems as blowguns, but they were thoroughly dried first. 
Do a bit of research on line and you will see what I am talking about.
Elderberry kind of tastes yucky, so dont be surprised


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## Karen (Apr 17, 2002)

Tincture is chemistry. It's the separation (leaching) of the medicinal properties from the plant. What you use will determine it's strength. The higher the proof of the alcohol used, the higher the potency of the tincture. 

The only way to achieve the higher quality of potency is by using Vodka to as close to 100 proof as you can get. It's the reaction of the plant to the contents of the Vodka that gives you the best product.

Vodka simply contains the best leaching abilities. Any alcohol will work, to some extent, but your end product will be different. It isn't that you don't end up with 'medicine', rather you will end up with a less potent form of medicine.

There's one caveat, however. You would be better off using 90 proof rum than you would 50 proof Vodka. Although Vodka 'draws' the medicinal qualities better, the amount of alcohol content is just as equally important. But either way, you won't end up with best quality of product unless you use Vodka which is at least 80% (again, the higher proof the better).

Now lower potency's will still work for some people; but not 'most' people. Most people will react much quickly and, with less dosages, and the more effective the tincture will be if it is more potent.

Think of it this way. Someone will do fine with a traditional prescription medication that is 100 mg; where it won't do a thing to someone else and they end up having to take 500 mg. It just depends on the nature of your illness, how far advanced it is, what else it is effecting, and just the personal make up of each of our bodies.

Or in a totally different way, think of it in terms of laundry detergent. For some, they don't need a high potency detergent to get their clothes clean. They're clothes aren't stained or as badly soiled. For another, however, they need not only laundry detergent, but they need more of it and with the kind that also contains bleach. Their clothes are just too badly soiled and the lower amount of detergent just won't work for them. It isn't that either type of detergent doesn't work, it's just they don't work equally well for both people.

That's the problem that discourages the use of alternative medicines/treatments. We want instant health and some people (including physicans) don't want to take the time that is often required of finding just what works for 'them'. There is no universal dosage, nor even universal herb for the same condition for everyone. It's trial and error and it's often time consuming and difficult when your already feeling really bad. But once you hit on what works for 'you', it's nothing short of a miracle from there on out because it is sooooo effective!


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## Karen (Apr 17, 2002)

With regards to children, they don't have as much body weight and their bodies react to medicinal properties much more quickly, effectively and with less medicine than an adults. That's why tinctures made from glycerin works for them and are so effective without the use of Vodka. It's simply a 'lower' dosage so to speak.


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## Step (Aug 4, 2005)

beaglebiz said:


> elderberry is perfectly safe to eat raw. You should not eat the stems. Native american children used the hollowed out stems as blowguns, but they were thoroughly dried first.
> Do a bit of research on line and you will see what I am talking about.
> Elderberry kind of tastes yucky, so dont be surprised


The elderberry I ordered is Sambucus *****, known as black elderberry, European Black Elder/Elderberry and yes, this species's fruit is perfectly safe to eat raw. I heard about this and the research done in the mid 1990s, but wasn't able to act on it until now. My research shows that it's still the only elderberry that's been clinically proven effective against Influenza A, B and C.. including the Avian Flu.. 

You are correct about the stems, but the same applies to the bark and leaves of elderberry plants. However, not all elderberries are the same, and only a few species are safe to eat raw. Further research will give more information. I didn't do a follow-up post because there are many elderberry species and I haven't researched them all, nor am I going to at this time. However, you did post this general information.. which I felt needed to be clarified just in case someone decides to go berry picking thinking all elderberries are safe and potentially bringing harm to themself and others.

I don't take medications.. so my purpose is to try to ward off bacterial and viral infections and would prefer not to poison myself in the process. Thanks for the warning the berries taste yucky!


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## offthegrid (Aug 11, 2009)

While technically black elderberry is listed as a poisonous plant (especially leaves & stems of the plant), we have all eaten the berries raw for years and years. Since they don't taste fantastic, it's not like we eat tons of them, but I do typically grab an "umbrella" of berries and sample them for ripeness, etc. I don't have my poisonous plant book with me at the moment, but I think that the likelihood of anything more than a stomachache is rare. So if you want to check your elderberries for ripeness/flavor (assuming you know that they ARE black elderberries), it's not going to hurt you.

That said, cooking the berries not only eliminates the toxicity of the berries, but greatly improves the flavor! So if you're really hungry....make a pie!


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## marinemomtatt (Oct 8, 2006)

The Elderberry leaves can be made into a wonderful healing salve/ointment for external use of course.

The inner bark and pith are still used to this day by some very brave LEARNED folks to treat a variety of ailments...check out Matthew Woods book, "The Book of Herbal Wisdom".


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## Speckledpup (Dec 3, 2004)

Just reporting in.

I decided to go with the Vodka based tincture.

Some things I've noticed since starting to take 1-2 tsp every night before bed for the last 3 weeks.

With no change to my diet, my blood sugar has dropped an average of 30 points on my morning test and I've lost 5 lbs. I knew from what I had read to watch my blood sugar, that elderberry could have an effect on it and it did. 

My Dr is going to love this. We have been battling pre-dawn syndrome since finding out that I was diabetic, 3 years ago. With this condition your blood sugars rise as you are sleeping, so that your highest reading are the ones that are the hardest to control. Every check-up he has been having to increase my PM dosage of Glipizide to try and even out the morning reading. My A1c is down to 6.5, which is good, but he would like to see it lower. I've had the day readings under control for 2.5 years and what has been running the A1c reading up has been those pesky overnight peaks. Can't wait to see what my A1c will be at my next check up.


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## debbiebofjc (Jun 11, 2006)

I am glad to see this thread.
I have my first batch of elderberry tincture "brewing" now. It's been in the jars for a week and a half now. I used 80 proof vodka, but might try Everclear next time. It felt weird to buy vodka, I rarely drink alcohol.
No one has had any flu or virus here yet, and I hope we don't, even tho I'm wanting to try this stuff out!
I plan to do some research to see what else I can make tinctures from.


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## sissy (Sep 7, 2009)

Be prepared for a very long list. I use everclear cut in half with water 99% of the time. If you use any meds do lots of research
Sissy


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## Speckledpup (Dec 3, 2004)

Another week has past and I've dropped 2 more lbs and the sugar has dropped another 5 points.


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## ChristieAcres (Apr 11, 2009)

STEP, thank you for posting the information you did!!! I can't have sugar OR alcohol and it is sometimes difficult to find alternatives. I am growing Herbs, a number of them medicinal. It is my goal to get a nice variety going by next year. As soon as I get done putting up the harvest (looks like a few more weeks for the Garden...), I am going to switch my focus to include preparing natural remedies (without sugar or alcohol).


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## cathleenc (Aug 16, 2007)

so - is everyone drying their elderberries before making tinctures - or using them fresh?

what do you think about steam extraction/juice steam extraction? I made several pints of elderberry juice with the plan of brewing wine duing a quieter farm period but am now wondering about using it medicinally, like in tea?


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## Speckledpup (Dec 3, 2004)

I bought dried berries. I planted 10 plants last year and only 1 survived. After seeing what the harvest is for each plant (Maybe a cup to a cup and a half per plant) we have decided to just buy the fruit.


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## cathleenc (Aug 16, 2007)

Speckledpup said:


> I bought dried berries. I planted 10 plants last year and only 1 survived. After seeing what the harvest is for each plant (Maybe a cup to a cup and a half per plant) we have decided to just buy the fruit.


you might just need to give the bushes time to mature. Around here elderberry bushes always seem to close to water. I picked/wild harvested 12 lbs in 45 minutes last week. Some bushes had lush, big berries while others had hardly any.


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## Ohio dreamer (Apr 6, 2006)

Ok, what's the going cost of 100 proof vodka in your neck of the woods! I just had sticker shock buying 1.75 liters for $19.50! It made 2 Qt and 1 pt, but I wasn't expecting that kind of price. 

I did see 80 proof for $12, but wanted "best" for tincture. I must admit it truly has no flavor....I tasted a few drops. Hope it "goes down" well.

So, is my State taxing it to the crazy price, or is it that expensive everywhere?


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## Speckledpup (Dec 3, 2004)

I paid 16.99 for 1.75 liters, but had to go KY to get that price. Here in TN it was 19.50 I also saw the 80 proof for a cheaper price but like you wanted to use the higher alcohol content.

I don't care for the taste of any alchol (sp) and it isn't that bad. I just chase it with water. Not the best tasting, but I've had cough syrup that tasted alot worse.


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## MinorHomestead (Nov 1, 2020)

Do you have any books about herbal medicine /tincture/holistic that you would recommend for beginners?


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## wdcutrsdaughter (Dec 9, 2012)

MinorHomestead said:


> Do you have any books about herbal medicine /tincture/holistic that you would recommend for beginners?



Rosemary Gladstar's Medicinal Herbs: A Beginner's Guide: 33 Healing Herbs to Know, Grow, and Use

Rosemary Gladstar's Herbal Recipes for Vibrant Health: 175 Teas, Tonics, Oils, Salves, Tinctures, and Other Natural Remedies for the Entire Family

10 Essential Herbs by Lalitha Thomas


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## motdaugrnds (Jul 3, 2002)

I've been wanting to plant more elderberries and have been looking for the Sambucus ***** . Where did you find it?


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## Danaus29 (Sep 12, 2005)

motdaugrnds said:


> I've been wanting to plant more elderberries and have been looking for the Sambucus ***** . Where did you find it?


I got several plants from Lowes. They had them again this year but not near as many plants as they usually carry. Or maybe they sold out real quick because of covid, IDK. Anyway, I paid $5 each for my 4 plants a couple years ago. I have to see if they need a pollinator because every year I get loads of flowers but no berries.


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## wdcutrsdaughter (Dec 9, 2012)

If there are wild elderberries in your area, 50 feet away from any road, you can take cuttings in late winter, put them in water or soil and they will root. 



motdaugrnds said:


> I've been wanting to plant more elderberries and have been looking for the Sambucus ***** . Where did you find it?


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