# Is anyone ready for the carpet to come out yet???



## crafty2002 (Aug 23, 2006)

It isn't a soft landing anywhere in site. I am still planting in the garden and if I can keep paying the light bill I will be canning everything in the world. 
OK, just what I grow but I am growing everything I can come up with the seeds to plant, counting the chicken feed.

Does anyone feel like I do right about now??? My pants are down and I can't pull them up.
Oil jumped so high today I felt like falling. 

Dennis


----------



## ailsaek (Feb 7, 2007)

Here too. I have most of my garden and and we're members of the local CSA as well, and I put by quite a lot of corn and rice and beans and the like, so I'm not worried about basic food. But we cook with electricity and heat with natural gas, and I'm not seeing either of those getting any cheaper. I can't convince DH that getting a woodstove in is a pressing matter though, so I am really worried about this winter.


----------



## SquashNut (Sep 25, 2005)

You've described it perfectly. 
i have 4 beds in my garden to reseed/plant and i cannot make a decision on what to plant. 
So far i've canned 44 quarts of greens. Should get 14 more done today. And there is enough for 28 quarts left in the garden.
Dh said grow every thing you i can. But still not sure if it will be enough.
We're also setting up to save all the seeds we can too.


----------



## MoGrrrl (Jan 19, 2007)

I'm most worried about winter too. I probably can handle the AC bills for July and August. And our garden is providing pretty well. But winter can be REALLY COLD around here, and we've got to keep the pipes from freezing. 

I think this is the winter I convince DH to agree to coldframes. 

And I am going to start harping on the "turn off the fan if you aren't in the room." And I may just settle for non-matching curtains on all the windows for insulation this winter. In our big old house, we have lots of large windows, and even off-the-shelf window treatments will run us upwards of $100/room. 

I hopped on a bike for 100 feet. Next weekend I'm going to do a 'serious' ride, and hopefully transition to biking to work by the end of the summer.

Grow food. Converse energy. Lather, rinse, repeat.


----------



## Ernie (Jul 22, 2007)

I was plotting out the logistics yesterday and was thinking the same thing. 

Gasoline costs - I don't hardly drive anywhere and what little I do drive it won't hurt even if I end up paying $20 per gallon.

Natural Gas - This one hurts. I have a gas hot water heater that seems to just suck up the old BTU's. We may need to learn to get used to cold showers around here. For heating the house I'm looking for the woodstove to keep us warm all winter. I've got to lay in a couple more cords of wood though. If it's anything like last winter, we darn near froze to death. Cuddling under blankets is fun and all, but 4 kids is enough. 

Electricity - The summer months are somewhat expensive, with the ceiling fans going, but the winter it's an almost negligible bill. So far the weather here in Illinois has been mild enough that we haven't needed to run much, though it's made for some sweaty days.

Food - I've laid in enough food ALREADY to provide for 4 meals of pork/beef/goat/chicken per week. I've got a heck of a garden planted so far and I'm still planting as the ground thaws out. Of all my worries, food isn't one of them.

Employment - I could do with a little less.

Shelter - Our house is always on the verge of falling down, but with a minimal of expenses I can undergo some major repairs this year. And we may deal with that basement leak by raising catfish on the laundry room floor.

Security - My relative remoteness and household armament provides basic security against thuggery. 

Government - I'm watching the election with some trepidation. I don't like any of the "major" candidates and I'm just hoping Ron Paul don't drop out.


----------



## Cabin Fever (May 10, 2002)

MoGrrrl said:


> I'm most worried about winter too. And I may just settle for non-matching curtains on all the windows for insulation this winter. In our big old house, we have lots of large windows, and even off-the-shelf window treatments will run us upwards of $100/room.


 WIHH has been there with the concerns about windows but she needed insulated curtains due to extreme heat. She ended up buying heavy denim fabric at walmart on the sale rack for $1.00 a yard and making her own - then hung light blocking shades inside the curtains. Worked like a gem. When I lived in colder climes and had lousy windows I used plastic to seal the windows from the cold and then hung old quilts to cover the windows -not very chic but very smart and energy conscious. Better to survive economically in bad taste than to have fashionable curtains that leave you unable to pay the energy bills! 
If current conditions persist , we'll all be making those kinds of compromises!


----------



## tamsam (May 12, 2006)

Shucks I planted a whole box of donut seeds last year and not a one came up. I found out later that some one said they were cherrios. Hehehehe Sam


----------



## crafty2002 (Aug 23, 2006)

This isn't worrying me too bad, as long as I can water the garden and build up a fuel supply for the tiller and chain saw. Well, that's not really true. I have a feeling the crack in the bottom is about to break loose and I have family and friends that just wouldn't listen.

ailsiek, I haven't canned anything as of yet. I haven't even gotten anything from the yet, but it's coming around. 
I go to the scrap yard and help an old friend unload junk all the time and have gotten a few pieces of good 3/16" and 1/4" plate metal and figure I very well may be building a wood stove this fall. I already heat from just a fireplace but we use a couple of electric heaters to help out and "ouch that hurts", LOL. 
Plus I figure we can go back to cooking on the stove also to save juice during the winter.

Squashnut, I am saving seeds from everything I plant. I did last year and they are coming up close to 100%. Maybe they won't be just like mama and papa, but they will give us some food to put up. And I forget now who it was on here at HT but someone gave me a good deal on a 7 quart pressure canner. She said the ring was bad but was wrong about that. That helps out too. 

Mogrrrl, I promise to have a cold frame in this winter that won't get blown away. I built a green house last year that did great until the 60-70 MPH winds came through. 
I took a 60 gallon water tank and made a stove for the basement last year so I could use it for a shop so when it gets down really bad I start a fire whether I am doing anything down there or not, which keeps my pipes OK plus warms the floor a little bit. 

As far as the windows go, I haven't done this yet but I have heard on here that it really helps. Go to a furniture store and get sheets of bubble wrap for free. It will insulate the windows. 
As I said, I haven't tried it yet but I am sure from what I have read it will work. 
Just cut the bubble wrap to fit with sissors and take a spray bottle and put a little dish washing liquid in it and fill with water and spray the windows and it will stick to them. Ask on here and some one can find the site for you. It is supposed to help a lot. 
I could be wrong, but I think the bubble wrap will beat several sets of curtains on the same window. 

And I am riding a bike nearly every where I go, but I don't go far most of the time. If I do go out for a trip anywhere ( And a trip for me is more than a mile, LOL) and I am not on the bike, I make it a good round trip planned ahead of time for what needs to be got. 

I am really just wondering if anyone seen this coming so fast after it started, and is really ready for it if it keeps getting worse??? 

I am prepared as well as I could get, and pray that's good enough. 
Anyone got two little piglets for sale, maybe a couple of turkey's also, LOL. 

Hold on to your seat.


----------



## MoGrrrl (Jan 19, 2007)

Cabin Fever said:


> Better to survive economically in bad taste than to have fashionable curtains that leave you unable to pay the energy bills!


That's where I'm heading too. 
I will have to check out the clearance areas if I'm around any store with fabric - thanks for that idea.

Crafty2002, good info on the bubble wrap. We get a lot of it at work; maybe I can get some good sized pieces.

I think I also want to investigate beekeeping in the city, although that's more for allergy reasons. We can still afford the Costco honey, but I'd like to use local honey and see if it would help my allergies.


----------



## Trixters_muse (Jan 29, 2008)

I wanted to second the idea on the bubble wrap, I used it this past winter with great results!

I tried thin sheets of styrofoam the year before, but it blocked the light and since I have dark paint and dark furniture it made the rooms too dark. The bubble wrap seemed to work better as an insulator and it allows light in and if you decide to open the curtains on a nice day, people can't see in. 

I used clear packaging tape to secure mine and I was able to get some of the bubble wrap from freecycle.


----------



## crafty2002 (Aug 23, 2006)

Furniture stores throw away huge sheets of the bubble wrap evey day just about. All kinds of funiture comes comepletely wrapped in it. 
Like I said, I have not tried it yet, just hadn't got around to it and when I am around one of the stores I forget to stop, but several people here says it works great.
Dennis


----------



## cougargnw (Aug 6, 2007)

Winter is one of two of my conserns. I just cant convince the wife to go with a wood stove. Michigan winters usaully suck. My other concern is employment. As a consultant for GM I have really been sweating these last couple weeks, and the annuncement of closing four plants didnt help. The wife makes good cash and I dont do to bad myself, but ----, the price hikes lately across the board have us rethinking things. I was gonna go shoot some skeet today but the range is a 45 min. drive on the highway. I think Im gonna hang out at home instead and see if I can squeak a couple more MPG's out of he cars with a little tinkering.


----------



## Andy Nonymous (Aug 20, 2005)

I have a dear friend who was just informed "due to current economic conditions, your pay rate is to be cut by 7%, effective as of the next pay period." This is not an isolated case, as there are others in that field getting a similar bite. 

I know that my wages have been 'steady' for the last several years, while real inflation over the past 7 years has averaged 10% per year, up until recently (now significantly higher), but I've managed ok, just by 'living smaller'. Now, even that is becoming very difficult. Those who have the power to demand 'their share' of 'our' income have no qualms about passing along their increased costs, but where does that leave those who either have to 'pony up' or move along?

Seems TPTB are leaving many of us holding a stick that is getting shorter on both ends. It might also help to remember that there were more millionaires (in REAL dollars) made during the Great Depression, than any other time in US history. I suspect this time will be little different in that regard, only more on a global level, and that those accumulating the wealth squeezed out of the 'serfs' will be further away, and all the more protected by well paid armies this time. 

Y'all ready to start living like Chinese peasants?


----------



## Sherrynboo (Mar 19, 2005)

I have a feeling that things are going to get a lot worse before they get better. I didn't know what to think when oil topped out at almost $140 a barrel yesterday. Our gas has been running abut 3.88 until this morning it went to 3.99. I have read on another forum that it could well be $5 by the fourth of July. I am working on paying off bills and getting the garden to produce well. So far I have only harvested onions and carrots but the green beans, squash, tomatoes and cantaloupe are all blooming and green beans and tomatoes have beans and tomatoes on them now. I am also going on Tuesday to pick up 1/4 of a black angus calf to go into the freezer. We have eggs in the incubator hoping to increase the size of my laying flock and have dairy goats for milk. If I can manage to keep them all fed along with us, we'll be alright. With all I have to do around here, I don't need to go anywhere anyway besides work so the higher gas prices help in that respect! 

I don't understand the reluctance of some of the posters spouses to use a wood stove. We have a wood stove but use lp for an outbuilding and for cooking. I couldn't afford to heat my house with propane now and we are in the south. 

Sherry in Ga


----------



## ailsaek (Feb 7, 2007)

I think I've got DH talked into a woodstove, or rather a woodburning fireplace insert. We spent today hanging out in our basement/library and agreed that it would make good sense to turn that into our main family living space because it's so much cooler in summer and it's where the fireplace is as well. Now we're talking about the possibility of me doing all the cooking on said fireplace insert come winter and cutting back to as close to no electric use as possible (I have a CPAP that keeps me breathing at night, so we have to use some). He's even talking about taking out a loan from his 401K to pay down/off our credit cards.

It seems like everyone who's paying attention realizes that things are bad and getting worse, including my town's health department (whom I went before last Monday successfully to get permission to keep chickens). I'm still worried about this winter, but we are going up to northern Maine next weekend to get a trailer for our VW bug that DH's parents have promised us, and we might be bringing home a load of firewood when we come. Chickens, my food stores, the food coming in over the summer from the CSA, and a woodstove and a bunch of wood will make me feel much more secure. And I do have a battery for my CPAP, so worst comes to worst, I can have DH recharge it when he drives to & from work every day.


----------



## ceresone (Oct 7, 2005)

Just a tip on the bubble wrap--instead of just covering the glass, it "might" be better to fasten it around the entire frame--lots of cold wind blows in past where the window was set in. Caulking helps too.
Mo. has a program that insulates and rehabs houses for people, income guidelines apply, I think.


----------



## booklover (Jan 22, 2007)

ailsaek said:


> He's even talking about taking out a loan from his 401K to pay down/off our credit cards.


I would thoroughly research this before you do it. Is your dh's job 100% guaranteed? Because if he loses his job, the whole amount is due immediately. You no longer get the 5 years to pay it back. You are also going to pay double taxes on the amount... once when you withdraw it and again when you use post-tax dollars to pay it back. You are also going to be losing any interest that could be gained over the course of the repayment and you've lost the years of compound interest. Unless you are paying like 35% interest on your credit cards, taking a loan from your 401(k) will cost you MORE than the interest on your cards. Any financial manager will tell you that unless it's life or death, don't touch your 401(k).


----------



## Ernie (Jul 22, 2007)

I don't know that taking out ANY loan to pay off credit cards is a good idea. Begging from Peter to pay Paul, so the story goes.

Just knuckle down and drop every spare cent into the credit card bills. Use the "snowball" method to get them all paid off as fast as possible.


----------



## pickapeppa (Jan 1, 2005)

Ernie said:


> I don't know that taking out ANY loan to pay off credit cards is a good idea. Begging from Peter to pay Paul, so the story goes.
> 
> Just knuckle down and drop every spare cent into the credit card bills. Use the "snowball" method to get them all paid off as fast as possible.


The snowball rolls down hill faster if you can rob Peter to pay Paul. But those competing credit card offers aren't coming en masse anymore, and the deals aren't as good when they do.

We played that game, swapped out one credit card bill for another with no interest for six months, then swapped it out again with no interest for another six months, then swapped it out again for an 1.99% fixed rate for the term. 

Now, there is no guarantee of more offers coming through. Glad we're through that phase and onto the next.


----------



## mpillow (Jan 24, 2003)

Is anyone ready for the carpet to come out yet???

More so than most and AND! my husband is 95% sure his job will get the axe come late Fall...last hired and first fired and not family...

I'm not above moving into my parents place while he looks for work...critters and all.

I'm certain that this will be "The Winter of Discontent"....


----------



## sgl42 (Jan 20, 2004)

ailsaek said:


> He's even talking about taking out a loan from his 401K to pay down/off our credit cards.


As other's noted, this is probably a bad idea for several reasons.

As I understand it, credit cards are unsecured debt, and 401(k) plans I believe are protected if you filed bankruptcy. I'd suggest addition research or talking with a lawyer to confirm this. (not saying you will go bankrupt, but presumably that's the worst case scenario.) In that case, having the 401(k) intact is a much better position post bankruptcy.

While under normal circumstances I believe that paying one's debts is honorable, I don't believe we're in normal times. In an era when a fraudulent Enron can go bankrupt $60 Billion in the hole, and only a single person goes to jail, and Worldcom similarly, and a newly elected member of the house can have 3 foreclosure preceedings against her with no impact, and the interest rate on gov't bonds is below the true rate of inflation, honest people are being played for chumps to keep up the profit margins of banks. 

--sgl


----------



## Ann-NWIowa (Sep 28, 2002)

I would not take a 401-K loan to pay credit cards. If you lose your job and cannot pay them, worst case scenario is they get a judgment against you that they can't collect until/unless you have wages or bank accounts that can be garnished or sell your real estate. SHTF "if" 401-K is worth anything it could be needed/used for survival and credit card payments don't qualify. Also, despite what cc companies want you to believe credit card debt does not survive a Chapter 7 bankruptcy. I'm all for the snowball plan to pay down debt if that is possible but never under any circumstances would I recommend converting unsecured debt into secured debt.


----------



## Pack Rat (Nov 9, 2006)

I am probably as ready as I'll ever be, because "the race goes not to the swift, but to those who endure to the end".


----------



## ailsaek (Feb 7, 2007)

I'll point DH to this thread. We own some land that we do not want to lose, and our credit card debt is annoying, not frightening (less than $4500 for me, dunno about him) anyway.

And if you all will permit a silly question, what's the snowball plan?


----------



## booklover (Jan 22, 2007)

ailsaek said:


> And if you all will permit a silly question, what's the snowball plan?


A Christian financial counselor by the name of Larry Burkett came up with it in the early 1990's. Since then, a new advocate stole it from him, quite blatantly. His name is Dave Ramsey and I have NO respect for the snake, who hasn't had an good original idea about finances in his entire life.

The plan is to get out of debt. You pay minimum payments on all debt, except the one that has the highest interest rate. When it it paid off, you put the amount you were paying toward that first debt plus the minimum payment toward the next highest interest debt. When that is paid off, you take the two payments plus the minimum payment for the 3rd debt and pay that one off... and continue until the debt with the lowest interest rate is paid off. You "snowball" your payments to take out one debt at a time.

It's a very old concept. Dave Ramsey seems to think himself a pioneer with it. Right!


----------



## pickapeppa (Jan 1, 2005)

booklover said:


> A Christian financial counselor by the name of Larry Burkett came up with it in the early 1990's. Since then, a new advocate stole it from him, quite blatantly. His name is Dave Ramsey and I have NO respect for the snake, who hasn't had an good original idea about finances in his entire life.
> 
> The plan is to get out of debt. You pay minimum payments on all debt, except the one that has the highest interest rate. When it it paid off, you put the amount you were paying toward that first debt plus the minimum payment toward the next highest interest debt. When that is paid off, you take the two payments plus the minimum payment for the 3rd debt and pay that one off... and continue until the debt with the lowest interest rate is paid off. You "snowball" your payments to take out one debt at a time.
> 
> It's a very old concept. Dave Ramsey seems to think himself a pioneer with it. Right!


As I understood it, it was to pay off the one with the lowest balance first regardless of interest rates. You'd get extra faster to put toward the next lowest and on up the chain.


----------



## ailsaek (Feb 7, 2007)

Brilliant idea, wish I'd thought of it. I'll start next payday (i.e. six days from now).


----------



## crafty2002 (Aug 23, 2006)

mpillow said:


> Is anyone ready for the carpet to come out yet???
> 
> More so than most and AND! my husband is 95% sure his job will get the axe come late Fall...last hired and first fired and not family...
> 
> ...


I feel for you. I am sure you are young and worried. If I am right, you have a few good things going for you. You are young, you can dig in and make it on less. 
Second is this will be a learning experience you will learn well and never forget.
Good luck
Dennis


----------



## Cindy in NY (May 10, 2002)

pickapeppa said:


> As I understood it, it was to pay off the one with the lowest balance first regardless of interest rates. You'd get extra faster to put toward the next lowest and on up the chain.


It depends on whose book you read. We paid off ours from highest to lowest interest rate regardless of the balance. Paying off the one with the lowest balance may give you that warm and fuzzy feeling faster but paying off the highest interest rate first will be much better in the long run!


----------



## Ann-NWIowa (Sep 28, 2002)

Find a copy of Larry Birkett's "Family Financial Guide". It is a good book for family finances and easy to understand. Check crown.org for Christian financial guidance.


----------



## crafty2002 (Aug 23, 2006)

Cindy in NY said:


> It depends on whose book you read. We paid off ours from highest to lowest interest rate regardless of the balance. Paying off the one with the lowest balance may give you that warm and fuzzy feeling faster but paying off the highest interest rate first will be much better in the long run!


Cindy said it best right here. You need to throw every extra penny you have at the biggest interest note. Get that paid off and that is when you get that warm and fuzzy feeling. 
And it is that. 
IMHO
Dennis


----------



## crafty2002 (Aug 23, 2006)

Pack Rat said:


> I am probably as ready as I'll ever be, because "the race goes not to the swift, but to those who endure to the end".


Now that's about where I am at Pack Rat. I feel off a scaffle about 4 1/2 years ago and all the doctors all agreed I would never work again. 
It has for sure been a long battle but I have around 70 chickens and two pretty large gardens and making them bigger as fast as I can do it with out it killing me. 
It hurts but I am here to endure to the end. I pulled a muscle in my neck today and asked my wife why I don't just give up and set there and watch TV all day. She laughed at me. 
Dennis


----------



## Mutti (Sep 7, 2002)

Even Uncle Sam is feeling the pinch...Son says they are only mowing essential areas at Fort Leonard Wood 'cause they can't afford the gas! Same with Texas county here in MO...no more mowing along side of the roads. DH took his weed wacker to several corners we go thru so we wouldn't get hit by a log truck!!!!!
We use an outdoor wood furnace that heats our water and you can burn any wood you can heave thru the door...and have a backup stove in the kitchen in case the electric goes out which we can also cook on. DEE


----------



## ailsaek (Feb 7, 2007)

Well, DH's company announced yesterday that they're going to be doing layoffs next week, so no 401K loan. He's thinking it's entirely possible that he might be one of the ones getting the axe this time, as he's one of the most senior guys left (but not old enough for early retirement). Interesting times.... Glad I bought the chickens when I did.


----------



## mpillow (Jan 24, 2003)

ailsaek said:


> Well, DH's company announced yesterday that they're going to be doing layoffs next week, so no 401K loan. He's thinking it's entirely possible that he might be one of the ones getting the axe this time, as he's one of the most senior guys left (but not old enough for early retirement). Interesting times.... Glad I bought the chickens when I did.


I hear you...what's running around is food if my husband loses his job. A comment at his work was that "Gary is the only one that is self-sufficient enough to make it thru rough times" Apparently they think that grain and hay is free. Grain and hay is way more than the food bill is monthly....we've got a one year old steer, a 7m old bull calf and a piglet as well as 30 odd chickens running around and 2 setting on 15 eggs as well as dairy goats that will be reserved for very desperate times. And lots of potatoes and corn and tomatoes planted!
Paying taxes and utilities will be a pain though and the tractor will be sold. Hopefully he'll find some work but getting paid in rubber checks by folks in the same boat isn't going to help us...it stinks!
My mother visited the other day and commented/complained about the chix poo in the yard...the free range 24/7. My reply was its saving me a lot of grain. When it rains hard it washes in/away....she gladly took 2 dzn eggs free of charge and the poop on her shoes was free too!


----------



## crafty2002 (Aug 23, 2006)

ailsaek said:


> Well, DH's company announced yesterday that they're going to be doing layoffs next week, so no 401K loan. He's thinking it's entirely possible that he might be one of the ones getting the axe this time, as he's one of the most senior guys left (but not old enough for early retirement). Interesting times.... Glad I bought the chickens when I did.


It's been a couple of weeks since you posted this. I was just wondering if your husband still has his job or got his neck cut?? I hope he is still hanging in there. 
Good Luck
Dennis


----------



## ailsaek (Feb 7, 2007)

crafty2002 said:


> It's been a couple of weeks since you posted this. I was just wondering if your husband still has his job or got his neck cut?? I hope he is still hanging in there.
> Good Luck
> Dennis


 Thanks for asking, you just made my day.

Turns out my husband's department is the most productive, both as a whole and per capita, in his division, so they are leaving it alone. I am immensely relieved for the short and medium term. (Long-term, there's still the problem that 2/3 of his division is in Singapore, as are many of the larger customers.)

So I can back-burner that worry for a few months and focus on preparing for winter here rather than wondering if someone else will be harvesting (or tearing out and sodding over) my garden.


----------



## crafty2002 (Aug 23, 2006)

Well I am glad to here that. The whole thing is bull. We are getting sold out every single day. It's a shame the way this country has went down hill the last few decades. 
How long is it before your husband can retire??
Well you have your chickens and garden as I do. I am planning on adding something else, just haven't figured out what yet.. I think I may get a couple of milk goats because I have a large piece of land that the owner says I can cut every tree on it if I want to, but it's grown up so bad you can't even walk through it, must less cut trees down and limb them up. 
Well, good luck and keep praying. That's all I know to do. 
Dennis


----------



## Chuck-prime (Jul 24, 2007)

mpillow said:


> A comment at his work was that "Gary is the only one that is self-sufficient enough to make it thru rough times"



Try to develop a plan when they come knocking on your door.


Numerous times I tried to warn the single guys in my church about the coming "economic collapse." Tried to build momentum, so they could prepare themselves. Tried to get the 'words' rattling in their heads.


I pretty much decided that I would help widows (without kids) first, the single women second (those that will really need help), then the pastors, and on and on. The single guys come in last, in the event they asked for help.


Wish they would listen.


----------



## DavidUnderwood (Jul 5, 2007)

Pickapeppa is right. Burkett and Ramsey's
plans are not the same. Either will work.
Dave Ramsey gives some real good advice.


----------



## Ann-NWIowa (Sep 28, 2002)

My dh bought foam insulation board (pink variety!) and cut it to fit between our inside windows and the storm windows on the north. It makes a huge difference in heating bills. I've suggested he do the same for the other windows but he doesn't want to because the south and west contribute solar warming during winter months. So he made individual pieces of insulation into correct size to friction fit in each of the 5 sections of the bow-bay window in the living room and suggested I make window quilts for the bedrooms. I'm thinking of polar fleece due to its light weight to put up and take down. Does anyone have any idea of its insulating value?


----------

