# We are living the expat life - Got questions



## Raymond673

Hello all, 

My wife and I have been living the expat life for over 3 years and have spent a lot of time exploring Central America / Caribbean. 

We spent 2 years in Costa Rica and have a number of stories and we now have settled down in Chiriqui (chir-re-kee) Panama. We bought a farm out in "highlands" of Panama and we love it. 

Expat life is not for everyone and it isn't something you just up and do either. The more you plan, the better you will be.

If you have questions, feel free to ask. 

Oh, land is still cheap down here and a lot of us reckon it to living in the wild west if you are the entrepreneur type. 

Cheers


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## sweetmusicj

Raymond673 said:


> Hello all,
> 
> My wife and I have been living the expat life for over 3 years and have spent a lot of time exploring Central America / Caribbean.
> 
> We spent 2 years in Costa Rica and have a number of stories and we now have settled down in Chiriqui (chir-re-kee) Panama. We bought a farm out in "highlands" of Panama and we love it.
> 
> Expat life is not for everyone and it isn't something you just up and do either. The more you plan, the better you will be.
> 
> If you have questions, feel free to ask.
> 
> Oh, land is still cheap down here and a lot of us reckon it to living in the wild west if you are the entrepreneur type.
> 
> Cheers


Thanks for the offer of advice. You say "cheap", but that is a relative term. Can you give some good examples of prices on some houses with some acreage or anything else you've seen lately?

Thanks and I'm glad to hear you enjoy the expat life!


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## Shrek

If you run into a ex pat there from Michigan who retired out from a job in Ohio tell him to stop calling me when he sees the temps in my area dropping to the teens to gloat because I will continue to tell him to kiss my butterball turkey cold backside 

He cracked me up when he decided to move from Michigan where his wife was born to Panama after they both retired mainly because he and his wife spoke fluent Spanish and didn't need to learn a new monetary system.

Actually he chose Panama because his mother came from there and he inherited some property she had there.

He told me if he ever misses winter he will come visit me in January and I told him if he does he better expect a phone book smack up side his head even if I have to buy an antique Atlanta yellow pages because its a lot thicker to bonk him with as payback for his last 5 January taunt calls after he checks the weather here on his dad gum PC. :rotfl:

Does Panama have a long straight stem flower industry like areas further south? Panama does have a nice retirement climate from what I hear from him.


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## Raymond673

sweetmusicj said:


> Thanks for the offer of advice. You say "cheap", but that is a relative term. Can you give some good examples of prices on some houses with some acreage or anything else you've seen lately?
> 
> Thanks and I'm glad to hear you enjoy the expat life!


You are correct, the term cheap is relative. 

Cheap here is $1.00 or less per square meter. Now there is also expensive. For example in downtown Boquete, the world's #4 retirement place outside the US. That is running around $25 a square meter. 

There is still a lot of good deals down here and learning Spanish is not that hard. You pick it up and there are a LOT of people who speak English here as well. 

Cheers


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## Raymond673

Shrek said:


> Does Panama have a long straight stem flower industry like areas further south? Panama does have a nice retirement climate from what I hear from him.


They grow a number of products to export including flowers. Here in Chiriqui you see green houses at the higher altitudes and that is where they grow flowers. They also grow strawberries, tomatoes, and multiple types of lettuce and other produce 365 days a year.


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## suitcase_sally

Raymond673 said:


> You are correct, the term cheap is relative.
> 
> Cheap here is $1.00 or less per square meter. Now there is also expensive. For example in downtown Boquete, the world's #4 retirement place outside the US. That is running around $25 a square meter. Cheers


For those that need a conversion, there are approx. 43,560 sq ft in an acre, so that converts to 4,047 sq meters which means the cheap land is approx. $4,047/acre. That's not my idea of cheap.


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## Solar Geek

suitcase_sally said:


> For those that need a conversion, there are approx. 43,560 sq ft in an acre, so that converts to 4,047 sq meters which means the cheap land is approx. $4,047/acre. That's not my idea of cheap.


Gotta be honest, not mine either. Land in Central WI (granted climate is not for all, but with lakes galore, rivers, streams, small mountains, Kettle Moraine areas, and great restaurants we love it) can still be had for $1,000-$4,000/acre. We got ours a few years ago for $3,000 and have fiber optic, electric (no gas) and a well with pond, trees and cleared area. 

raymond 73, Your area sounds like a great place to ex-pat if you like warmer weather.


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## Raymond673

Solar Geek said:


> Gotta be honest, not mine either. Land in Central WI (granted climate is not for all, but with lakes galore, rivers, streams, small mountains, Kettle Moraine areas, and great restaurants we love it) can still be had for $1,000-$4,000/acre. We got ours a few years ago for $3,000 and have fiber optic, electric (no gas) and a well with pond, trees and cleared area.
> 
> raymond 73, Your area sounds like a great place to ex-pat if you like warmer weather.


When we lived in Texas, we could not touch property for under $5K an acre. Today where we used to live (Austin/San Antonio) it is now going for $8K an acre. So yeah, "cheap" is relative. 

Us, we like the 75-80 degree days, no snow, no in your face regulations, no property tax, great medical without stinking over priced Obi-care, oh and the Foreign Earned Income Exclusion - For tax year 2014 this exclusion was $99,200. Not that we make that much, but that is what we get to chop off the top and what is left is what we pay on... which since we don't make much, the IRS is not in our back pocket. 

So you can see how $3K per is not that bad when you run the numbers and why we love living down here.

Cheers


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## sweetmusicj

Raymond673 said:


> When we lived in Texas, we could not touch property for under $5K an acre. Today where we used to live (Austin/San Antonio) it is now going for $8K an acre. So yeah, "cheap" is relative.
> 
> Us, we like the 75-80 degree days, no snow, no in your face regulations, no property tax, great medical without stinking over priced Obi-care, oh and the Foreign Earned Income Exclusion - For tax year 2014 this exclusion was $99,200. Not that we make that much, but that is what we get to chop off the top and what is left is what we pay on... which since we don't make much, the IRS is not in our back pocket.
> 
> So you can see how $3K per is not that bad when you run the numbers and why we love living down here.
> 
> Cheers


Thanks for your information. Yeah, even though land isn't a TON cheaper, I imagine cost of living is significantly lower so if you can buy with cash you're sitting pretty easy.

What are you doing for healthcare? Do you make trips back "home" to the US and if you do how are you covered?


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## Raymond673

sweetmusicj said:


> Thanks for your information. Yeah, even though land isn't a TON cheaper, I imagine cost of living is significantly lower so if you can buy with cash you're sitting pretty easy.
> 
> What are you doing for healthcare? Do you make trips back "home" to the US and if you do how are you covered?


We have private insurance and pay $220 for the both of us. This covers emergencies, hospital stay, just about everything. We pay out of pocket to go to the GP doc in town -his fee is $25 for an office visit. Great doctor and speaks great English, which most doctors do as well. 

I put it on par or better than US medicine. Panama and Costa Rica both have medical tourism. So if it wasn't good with the latest and greatest, it wouldn't attract all the people that are coming for treatments and such. 

Hope this helps.


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## Bellyman

Raymond673 said:


> We have private insurance and *pay $220 for the both of us*. This covers emergencies, hospital stay, just about everything. We pay out of pocket to go to the GP doc in town -his fee is $25 for an office visit. Great doctor and speaks great English, which most doctors do as well.
> 
> I put it on par or better than US medicine. Panama and Costa Rica both have medical tourism. So if it wasn't good with the latest and greatest, it wouldn't attract all the people that are coming for treatments and such.
> 
> Hope this helps.


$220/mo? $220/yr? Was just wondering. Either is pretty cheap compared to what my wife and I could get here. We fell through the cracks. Last check I made, a "modest" (think $12k deductible) policy for the two of us would be $800+ A MONTH. Total bs. Not gonna happen.

Also, if you don't mind me asking, is it possible for a non-citizen to buy land in Panama? I wasn't sure how that worked. My friend in Boquete married a lady from there but I don't remember him marrying her before he moved there and bought his home. 

I do find it interesting that he told me that they have no need for either heat or air conditioning. People here spend quite a bit of coin just staying warm or staying cool. 

Thanks for the thread and for the up close and personal info. The pictures are nice, too.


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## haley1

How was Costa Rica?


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## sweetmusicj

Raymond673 said:


> We have private insurance and pay $220 for the both of us. This covers emergencies, hospital stay, just about everything. We pay out of pocket to go to the GP doc in town -his fee is $25 for an office visit. Great doctor and speaks great English, which most doctors do as well.
> 
> I put it on par or better than US medicine. Panama and Costa Rica both have medical tourism. So if it wasn't good with the latest and greatest, it wouldn't attract all the people that are coming for treatments and such.
> 
> Hope this helps.


How are you insured on trips back to the US?


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## Raymond673

sweetmusicj said:


> How are you insured on trips back to the US?


Who said we are coming back? :happy:


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## sweetmusicj

Raymond673 said:


> Who said we are coming back? :happy:


Oh, ok. Not planning on visiting even!? I've thought about living a somewhat expat life, but always wondered how it'd work on trips home with health insurance.


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## Raymond673

sweetmusicj said:


> Oh, ok. Not planning on visiting even!? I've thought about living a somewhat expat life, but always wondered how it'd work on trips home with health insurance.


That is why we have that wonderful thing called "Obama Care." He said last night it was the greatest thing next to sliced bread. 

So if and when we come to visit it will be free just like it is for all the other foreign visitors. :smack


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## Michael W. Smith

Interesting.

I keep telling my wife once we retire in 20 or so years, we are going to be snow birds. 

Live in Costa Rica or somewhere in Central America for most of the time, and come back "home" from May - October. (We currently have a teenaged son so would want to come back to visit with him and any future grandchildren. Plus to come back and see our friends.)

We have lived in the same area all of our lives so have roots here. I can't see just leaving and never coming back.

As an American, are you able to buy land? I've always heard it's better just to rent - that way if you have to return to the U.S. due to old age and fragile health, you just pick up and leave. (Same thing if you die - your heirs back in the U.S. don't have to try to sell foreign property.)

Can you tell us some of your experiences, what made you decide to become an ex-pat, and the pros and cons for the places you have been?


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## Raymond673

Michael W. Smith said:


> Interesting.
> 
> I keep telling my wife once we retire in 20 or so years, we are going to be snow birds.
> 
> Live in Costa Rica or somewhere in Central America for most of the time, and come back "home" from May - October. (We currently have a teenaged son so would want to come back to visit with him and any future grandchildren. Plus to come back and see our friends.)
> 
> We have lived in the same area all of our lives so have roots here. I can't see just leaving and never coming back.
> 
> As an American, are you able to buy land? I've always heard it's better just to rent - that way if you have to return to the U.S. due to old age and fragile health, you just pick up and leave. (Same thing if you die - your heirs back in the U.S. don't have to try to sell foreign property.)
> 
> Can you tell us some of your experiences, what made you decide to become an ex-pat, and the pros and cons for the places you have been?


There is no rule that says you can not come back. We go and visit the grand kids about once a year or they come down and visit us. Now that we have the homestead, they are coming down here more than us going there. 

As expats, we can buy land down here. I am still a US Citizen but once we have been here long enough, we can get duel citizenship. 

>>> I've always heard it's better just to rent - that way if you have to return to the U.S. due to old age and fragile health, you just pick up and leave. 

The goal of being an expat is staying an expat. If you give yourself a window to escape, you will always use it. The key is burning the ships and facing the difficulties. Its the pioneer spirit that an expat must have. 

Please contact me if you have any other questions. We help a lot of folk transition to an expat life. 

Cheers

Ray


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## anniew

What bad points are there where you are? They are just reporting on a person murdered in Belize and I know another that was murdered there. What is your experience regarding crime there and also what is the politics like?
We've heard the good points. Now I want to know the bad points, please.


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## Raymond673

anniew said:


> What bad points are there where you are? They are just reporting on a person murdered in Belize and I know another that was murdered there. What is your experience regarding crime there and also what is the politics like?
> We've heard the good points. Now I want to know the bad points, please.


We spent several weeks in Belize on one of our recon trips to see if we liked it. 

Belize is an armpit and is crime laden because it is so poor. Think fourth world country. Crime is rampant and killing gringos is becoming more of the thing to do. It is a world of the haves and have nots. those who have not think nothing of taking from those who have. Very bad welfare mentality there in Belize.

We live in Panama and there is very little violent crime, where in the US things are so violent that it doesn't even register on your radar anymore. Oh... 20 people got killed last night? Who cares. That is the US mentality.

Where here in Panama if someone is murdered, it is a huge deal because it just does not happen much. 

You know what is bad here? We have the Fer-de-lance snake. They are utter bastards and will attack you because they are very territorial. 

Another thing that upsets a lot of people is that there is this maÃ±ana attitude. There is our time and then there is Panama time. When someone says they will be there at 9:00 AM, expect them to show up around 9:45 or later. Finding good skilled workers who know what they are doing and will do things right is also a pain in the rear. Just not many skilled workers here. 

Here is a website we run -- http://unpackingcentralamerica.com - check it out and read a lot of our articles. 

Hope this helps. 

Cheers


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## rickpaul

..Thanks Ray for all the information you shared with us (the forum), I`ve been thinkin about moving but still kinda scared, I`m 71 an startin over would be something I would really have to think about, also, I have emphysema an don`t know what to expect should I ever need any emergency services. Thanks again.....rick


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## Raymond673

anniew said:


> What bad points are there where you are? They are just reporting on a person murdered in Belize and I know another that was murdered there. What is your experience regarding crime there and also what is the politics like?
> We've heard the good points. Now I want to know the bad points, please.


Here is a really good evenhanded article about the area we live in.. Boquete Panama. 

http://www.thestreet.com/story/13417158/3/boquete-panama-a-tropical-paradise-where-you-may-need-a-sweater.html


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## Raymond673

rickpaul said:


> ..Thanks Ray for all the information you shared with us (the forum), I`ve been thinkin about moving but still kinda scared, I`m 71 an startin over would be something I would really have to think about, also, I have emphysema an don`t know what to expect should I ever need any emergency services. Thanks again.....rick


Thing is that it isn't starting over, it is opening a new phase and adventure in your life. 

Our medical is a whole lot better down here than what we had in the states. It is also less expensive. 

Re Scared ...

âI must not fear. Fear is the mind-killer. Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration. I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me. And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path. Where the fear has gone there will be nothing. Only I will remain.â - Frank Herbert's Dune

The answer ... 

âYou know, sometimes all you need is twenty seconds of insane courage. Just literally twenty seconds of just embarrassing bravery. And I promise you, something great will come of it.â Benjamin Mee's - I Bought a Zoo

Cheers!


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## poppy

What are the gun laws in those countries?


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## Raymond673

poppy said:


> What are the gun laws in those countries?


Once you have permanent residency here you can own a gun.


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## Canyonero

Raymond673 said:


> Once you have permanent residency here you can own a gun.


Can I own lots of guns? Of all types?


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## Elie May

Could you work there if you wanted? We're looking to relocate, thinking about mahahual but I'm told it's difficult to get jobs as a ******. I'd like to just make my jewelry and sell it to tourists, but I worry if the locals would accept that.


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