# Adding sand to clay garden soil



## Beeman (Dec 29, 2002)

Our soil in this area is heavy reddish clay. We have gardened in this spot for 10 yrs. and added organic matter every year. it's better but still not what it should be. Has anyone tried tilling in sand to help break up the clay. i can get a dump truck load of sand and spread and rotovate it in.


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## Aohtee (Aug 26, 2003)

Keep adding compost. You try tilling sand into clay and you'll get conctete.


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## culpeper (Nov 1, 2002)

Compost, compost and more compost. And if you haven't got enough compost, just add any dead organic material as it becomes available (like dead leaves as a mulch, some dried manure etc). It will eventually break down, and improve the soil quality. You could also toss in some clay-breaker - is it Dolomite I'm thinking of?


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## Beeman (Dec 29, 2002)

Garden is 60x100', this year I've already hauled about 10 truckloads of horse barn cleanout. I have also done this with either leaves or manure every year,
How do you get sand and clay makes concrete? I don't think the sand would make the clay bind together any better than it does already.


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## Don Armstrong (May 8, 2002)

Beeman said:


> I don't think the sand would make the clay bind together any better than it does already.


...or, I think, any less. If you've got clay you've got clay. Add A LOT of sand and you'll eventually get sandy clay - but still clay. You'd need to start outweighing the clay by so much sand that you'd be building a mountain there, before you'd overcome the clayey nature of the soil. That's just the way clay is. Don't just take my word for it - experiment with a bucket load of your clay soil, and mix in an eighth, quarter, half, etc. bucket loads of sand.

Like they said, humus is the way to go.


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## greg273 (Aug 5, 2003)

at the risk of sounding unpopular here, i would say YES, sand would help. Our soil here is something of a reddish/yellow clayey loam, which when dry is more like brick than dirt. Sand loosens the clay particles so they dont stick together quite as bad. I would say wait for the opportune moment to till it in though,when its not too wet.

good luck,

greg


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## Guest (Feb 14, 2004)

I'll agree with the compost crowd. Without going into everything I learned in soil sience 30 years ago it all comes down to electric charges and the structure of clay particles. Clay and compost have similar charges but different structures. Bottom line, they clump together breaking up the clay. Compost does continue to decompose while clay pretty much lasts forever so you will be adding compost for quite some time. After time you will build up a layer of planting soil comprised of humus and clay that will require less compost. What most people fail to realise is that clay soil are very, very fertile. Unfortunately the nutrients are very strongly attacked to the electrical charges of the clay particles. The Charges on the compost with attact nutrients away from the clay and as the compost decomposes the nutrients are released for use by the plants. It would be a good idea to check the pH of your soil. Clay particles are aligned like a stack of coins. This is why it drains so slowly. Adding lime will cause the clay particles to form clumps and increase its workability. Just don't add so much lime that you mess up the pH and open another can of worms. 
That reminds me, When you add your compost start adding nightcrawlers to your soil also. Again as time goes by you will be impressed. Since your garden is only 60'x100' you may want to check out double digging compost into it.
The last thing you want to do is add sand unless you want to give up gardening and start playing tennis.


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## Paquebot (May 10, 2002)

Loam is the best soil that you can ever have. Look up the definition of loam in the dictionary. "A rich soil, esp. one composed of clay, sand, and some organic matter." Ideal garden mix is 75% clay-based soil, 15% sand, and 10% compost. Once you have that ratio, all you have to do is add the 10% compost annually. If you have pure clay, add 1" of sand per 6" of soil. If you are going to till a foot deep, lay on 2" of sand and 1"+ of compost. It will look like an awful lot but not when tilled that deep, which is really how deep you should till anyway! 

Martin


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## Beeman (Dec 29, 2002)

Paquebot,
That's exactly what I had read that got me thinking adding sand.
For the person that said it's only 60x100 and to double turn it with a fork ARE YOU NUTS? I'm long past turning my garden with a fork. I'm up to 2 teactors, a TroyBilt tiller and a rotovator for the tractor. As for the compost people, how much compost do you make or how fast can you make it? We have 2 compost piles and come up with enough for raised beds and some flower beds. I have houled leaves from the town dropoff in my pickup and a trailer for years. I mean leaves, like a couple of hundred bags of them. Garden is better but still not where I think it out to be.


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## Paquebot (May 10, 2002)

6,000 square feet of garden is quite a lot to cover with that needed inch of compost. You almost need 10 times that much raw material. Imagine covering that area with 10" of mixed browns and greens. You're halfway home if you've got a pickup truck as no good mixed maple and oak leaves are safe from me in the fall! 

A problem with making that much compost is availability of the proper materials at the time when they are needed. I solve that by packing leaves into heavy construction cleanup bags and stacking them around the foundation of the house for insulation. This season's efforts have 56 such bags waiting for spring shredding. That's equal to at least 120 regular leaf bags. Bagged again after shredding and used as needed when grass clippings are available. That's about what it takes to cover 6,000 square feet with an inch of compost.

The constant fallacy of clay and sand equals adobe has long been dismissed and now the only arguments are over the type of sand used. I say river sand and others will say no river or beach sand. Some say round sand and others say sharp sand. I want round river sand as my wonderful nightcrawlers like that type a lot better. Even the percentage of sand will get an argument but 15% is the accepted minimum. When I am advising on permanent garlic or potato beds, I may advise closer to 25% sand depending on exactly what type of clay is involved. The important key is combining a minimum 10% organic matter with it plus thorough mixing via tilling. 

Martin


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## Beeman (Dec 29, 2002)

Paquebot,
How do you shred your leaves? I have a Troy-Bilt shredder that doesn't work well on leaves. I use it mainly for shredding tobacco stalks which are high in nitrogen.


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## JJ Grandits (Nov 10, 2002)

I guess the bst way to answer the sand vs compost problem is to have Beeman put down a couple inches of sand, till it in, and report the results after the growing season. Maybe even put the garden in thirds for sand, sand/compost, and straight cmpost. 
There is one correction I'd like to point out. Loam is a mixture of clay, sand and silt, not organic matter. Although organic matter is essential for a productive soil it is not one of the components of loam. I would also like the referance that states a good garden soil is 75% clay. Is that by volume or weight? What method is used to determine if a soil is 10 or 15% sand? The same goes with organic matter.


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## CrazyLadyMs (Feb 14, 2004)

are you the Beeeman that chats on Backyard Chickens? If you are then you know me. If not then now you do. haha
I have heavy clay too, here they call it Yazoo clay. Im glad somone posted abount not using sand! I sure would have done it. 

Thanx

Katy


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## Paquebot (May 10, 2002)

And I shall counter-correct the "correction"! Web definition of loam is: "a loose soil comprised of clay, sand, and organic matter, often highly fertile." First web dictionary site notes the same:

http://www.brainydictionary.com/words/lo/loam185526.html

Since the third ingredient mentioned is silt, look up the definition of silt. You'll find that silt is "fine particles of soil, sand, etc. suspended in or deposited by water."

Now for the method of shredding leaves. I twice burned out motors on Flowtrons before the company informed me that their contraption was not designed for prolonged use. Prior to that, I simply set up a backstop of two sheets of plywood and went over everything twice with a lawnmower. Went back to that after the Flowtron fiasco until a friend came up with a Merry Mack chipper-shredder. Short production little cousin of the commercial Mighty Mack. Not nearly as efficient as Troy Bilt or similar. It handled the 50+ bags last year at one go and one tank of gas. Doesn't like damp leaves but did a number on the dry ones with no problem. Personally, I prefer the mower as it can also handle any damp leaves plus whatever greens may be available at the time. I also sharpen my mower blade right to the center hole for a more thorough chopping job. "Corn flakes" after the first pass, "oatmeal" after the second! 

And how can one tell what percentage of sand and clay make up your soil? Water! Take a pint of soil and a pint of water. Mix them thoroughly in a quart jar. Then let it all settle. Bottom layer will be your sand. Clay will be in the middle. Any silt and organic material will be the top layer. 

Martin


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## Guest (Feb 15, 2004)

Sand is porous and will suck the water out of the clay, making the clay stick to it. I agree with The Compost Gang. Sand and clay does make adobe.



> Recipe for Six Adobe Bricks
> 
> Time required: about one month (most of it waiting for bricks to dry).
> Cost: little or nothing
> ...


LL


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## Guest (Feb 15, 2004)

Maybe different clays matter, but we have heavy yellow clay. You can't dig a hole to plant a flower when it is dry. After we moved here, we tried to garden in it for about 5 years just adding what compost we had. Never made much difference. Then I put a dumptruck load of sand on about an area of 30 by60 and worked it in. Made all the difference. Now it stays loose and productive. Too much sand will dry out pretty quicky, so you'll need to water. Sand is a very good growing medium if you can keep it moist. About 6 miles from here, we have an area called sand ridge, pretty much pure sand. Some of the best farm ground around and they grow a lot of melons there as well as corn.


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## sbeerman (May 11, 2002)

Hi beeman , 
This is the best explanation of adding sand to clay that I've seen to date.
http://forums2.gardenweb.com/forums/load/soil/msg0109383521338.html
Look for the 16 post down "Posted by: shrubs_n_bulbs z8/9 UK "
I lived where we had clay soil, and knowing there was no way I could buy enough "Sharp Sand" to improve the clay with out really messing it up I would but one 10 yard load of sharp sand a year, $80.00 a truck load this was my Mothers Day Presant for years. What I did was amend the " whole " that I was planting my transplants in.
I used about 1/3 soil, 1/3 compost, 1/3 sharp sand figured I felt better because I was trying to improve soil but probally would't be ruining it either.
Happy Gardening Sandie Or.zone 6/7


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## Guest (Feb 15, 2004)

Martin, I'm sorry if I said something wrong. I read some of the posts and answered as I thought was correct. Like the man said, I suppose it depends on what kind of clay it is. He says he has that old hard yellow clay and that is what they make adobe out of. Please accept my apology if I did something wrong, but this happened to me at the house I used to live in. I had the same stuff and it wouldn't even grow grass. The only thing that would grow out of it were dandelions and weeds, even when I added sand and compost. The ground was so hard that whatever I tilled just washed away. It couldn't sink in.

Mea Culpa, sir.


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## Guest (Feb 16, 2004)

Interesting subject, since it applies to some of my garden failures I did some looking and found what may be the reason for the divergences of opinions posted above, see Dr. Chalker-Scott article below.

&#8220;Our soil in this area is heavy reddish clay. We have gardened in this spot for 10 yrs. and added organic matter every year. it's better but still not what it should be.&#8221;

As to trying to improve your soil with organic matter (I've been this also and expecting better soil), it seems that the organic matter only helps for about 6mos or so, due in part to the plants taking it out of the soil, so this is not a long term solution to the clay problem, sort of the possiblity of a massive amendment/input of organic material.

&#8220;Has anyone tried tilling in sand to help break up the clay. i can get a dump truck load of sand and spread and rotovate it in.&#8221;

The &#8220;Question&#8221; of contention and difference of opinion appears to be, how much, if any, sand to add to clay to make it better. After looking at several authoritative (Univ. based types) articles it appears that there is no real consensus as to the &#8220;Best&#8221; solution. 

Though it seems pretty straight forward that too little sand will make the situation worse, like the &#8220;cement analogy&#8221; mentioned above and referred and explained in the article below. 

So when you go about mixing in sand, you will know that you need more if the situation gets worse (like cement soil) and you can somewhat safely know that it will get better if you continue to add more sand, the question is how much to add and what will the cost be.

Don seems to have hit it right on the head, experiment with various percentages of each, see what it will take to get your clay soil to the point that you are happy with it.

Hope this helps.

http://216.239.39.104/custom?q=cach.../amend2.pdf+amending+clay+soil&hl=en&ie=UTF-8
Dr. Linda Chalker-Scott, Associate Professor,
Center for Urban Horticulture, University of Washington
The Myth of Soil Amendments Part II:

&#8220;Soil texture
Soil texture is determined by particle size, which ranges from microscopic clay flakes to more rounded silt particles to sand grains. While undisturbed sandy soils are well aerated and well drained, they are nutrient poor since sand and silt cannot bind mineral nutrients. In contrast, clay soils do bind mineral nutrients but have poor drainage and aeration. Thus, a soil with both sandy and clay characteristics should be optimal for plant root health. So it's easy to see how the practice of adding sand to clay soils has evolved.

The problems occur when sand and clay are mixed in incorrect proportions. An ideal soil has 50% pore space (with the remainder consisting of minerals and organic matter). The pore spaces in a clay soil are all small, while those in a sandy soil are all large. When one mixes a sandy and a clay soil together, the large pore spaces of the sandy soil are filled with the smaller clay particles. This results in a heavier, denser soil with less total pore space than either the sandy or the clay soil alone. (A good analogy is the manufacture of concrete, which entails mixing sand with cement - a fine particle substance. The results are obvious.) 

A soil must consist of nearly 50% sand by total volume before it takes on the characteristics of a sandy soil. 

For most sites, it would be prohibitively expensive to remove half the existing soil and add an equal volume of sand and then till it to the necessary 18-24". Mineral amendments of large particle size, such as perlite, may provide some benefit but can also be costly depending on the size of the site. (Reducing this task to amending only the planting hole is a recipe for plant failure and perhaps will be addressed in a separate column.)

Soil structure
Soil structure is the next level of organization for soil particles. Sandy and silty soils don't have much structure (and these soil qualities are primarily determined by particle size). Soils with more clay content, such as the various loams, aggregate into larger chunks called peds. Highly aggregated soils are optimal for root growth and aeration, but can be easily destroyed by any activity that results in soil compaction.

Soil structure can be improved through proper site preparation and management. One of the least invasive and most cost-effective ways to do this is by the use of organic mulches. This is especially effective for landscapes that receive high volume foot traffic. My landscape restoration classes now routinely have wood chips spread on site to allow soil recovery to begin as they prepare the site and install new plants. One particular site, a small lot near a bus stop, consisted of weeds, bare soil, and a few existing trees and shrubs. When we tried to take a soil core, the corer bent! We had 8-10" of wood chips spread over the whole site as we began our work. A month later, we moved aside part of the mulch and dug out a shovelful of rich, loamy soil. Had I not seen it for myself, I'm not sure I would have believed these stunning results. The addition of the wood chips allowed the site to retain soil moisture and reduced the constant impact from foot traffic, thus enabling the soil to regain its structure.
Bottom line:
&#8226; Clay soils are not inherently bad, but can be problematic if they lack good structure.
&#8226; To significantly alter a clay soil, sand must be incorporated to about 50% of the total soil volume.
&#8226; Many problems associated with clay soils (poor aeration, drainage, etc.) can be alleviated through good management practices.


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## Bill in Tn (Dec 13, 2003)

When we retired to Middle Tennessee, one of the first things I did was have a 40'x75' spot of sod tilled up for our garden. The soil looked great, and I couldn't wait to plant. Then it rained, and it turned into what appeared to be red cement. I couldn't drive a spade into it. So I hauled in enough cow manure to spread about 3 or 4 inchs thick, had it tilled again and planted. I had beautiful plants, but the ground was still hard. I then had a truck load of sand delivered and mulched the entire garden at least 2 inches deep. That kept the weeds down all season. That fall I added another couple inches of horse manure and tilled it all in. Turned out great. I can now sink a spade anywhere in the garden at anytime even after a dry spell. Worked for me. Bill


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## Dchall_San_Anto (Feb 17, 2004)

I recognize a couple names here as I'm sure some will recognize me :waa:. I just found this forum (looking for cattle resources) but eventually found the gardening forum, too. 

I have a couple definitions that probably won't really help anyone but it helps me talk about the subject.

Cement: is a dehydrated limestone product for binding sand and rock created by burning limestone in a kiln at over 1,000 degrees F for a period of time.

Concrete: is a solid material made by mixing cement with water and usually sand and gravel. 

Adobe: is pretty much as described above, but basically a dried mud made from relatively pure ingredients. Sand can be left out of the recipe and your adobe will be great! The sand is just filler to stretch out your batch. One thing that will really screw up your adobe is to get too much loose organic material in it. That should be a clue as to the solution to clay soils. 

One thing y'all have completely left out of the equation (if there is one) is the microbial life in the soil. The reason clay is clay is that there is no appreciable amount of fungus left in the soil. Naturally occurring soil fungus (or plural, fungi) are the creatures that create tilth. They 'lift and separate' the soil minerals or soil crumb structure formed by bacterial action near the minerals. One excellent way to grow a ton of beneficial soil fungi is to heavily apply sawdust or woody chips from a tree trimmer/feller. I'm talking about several inches like a mulch over several years. Wood is absolutely dependent on fungi to decompose it. At first it will seem to take forever to decompose just sitting there on top of the soil. But eventually it will decompose faster and faster as the soil fills with wood eating fungi. You will end up with a soil that is chock full of fungi that maintain tilth no matter what happens. 

Whatever you do, though, don't till it in or your soil will appear to have died for a year or more. First of all, the tilling will kill any of your current 'crop' of beneficial fungi. Secondly the incorporation of wood dust into the soil will require huge amounts of nitrogen to decompose it. As long as the wood is in the soil (as opposed to on top of the soil) it will tie up any nitrogen that comes along just to decompose the wood. Thus, no fertility until the fungi finish decomposing the wood. 

The second thing you must not do is use any fungicide near the soil. If you are trying to grow fungus, fungicide will set you all the way back to pure clay in one single application. Herbicide and insecticide have some negative effect, too, but nothing like a fungicide. 

The third thing you must prevent is flooding. I'm talking about standing water for days on end. Beneficial fungi are aerobic and must have air to survive. A flood will kill them back to ground zero again. Do what you have to to soak up any standing water. 

If you don't already know me, I'm a no-till kind of guy. I will disagree with tilling in every case with only one exception: if you are starting a new landscape after new construction at your home then you should mix in compost (as much as you can afford) with ripper forks on a box blade (tractor). If you have 6,000 square feet to farm on, I would never till again. If at all possible I would grow whatever during the normal season and during the off season, drill in the deepest rooting legume you can grow. Alfalfa is a bad example because of the nest of roots, but I still want to use that example. Alfalfa will grow roots tens to hundreds of feet deep. When you mow that down to the ground at the beginning of the growing season, all those dead roots become 'organic matter' in the soil. You didn't even have to till it in, as if you could till it 10 feet down :haha: Deep rooting cover crops are the single fastest and best way to get OM deep into the soil. I believe hairy vetch is a good one for deep roots but I could be wrong.


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## Jo in PA (May 10, 2002)

Beeman, I think I would listen to those who have used sand in the clay soil rather than those quoting books. I had a garden that was pure clay with alot of shale mixed in. It was old strippen land (they mined the clay off of it). And when they back filled they just made the land a mess by not putting the layers of dirt back the way they took it off. Anyhow, our garden was as hard as concrete. I added anything I could get my hands on. I used lots of sand, sawdust, compost, leaves, cow/chicken/rabbit/pig/turkey and horse manure. After only a few years our garden was showing great signs of improving. What was once really hard ground really loosened up and I could even grow beautiful carrots in it.


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## Beeman (Dec 29, 2002)

Devil hates a coward! Adding sand it is and I will try to post back to let people know what happens. As far as the sand and clay making adobe theory I already have pottery adobe would be an improvement. The other thing to consider as others have is it's not just sand and clay but many other components with it. Just like flour and water make glue, but also cakes and bread if other materials are added.


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## southerngurl (May 11, 2003)

Yea, add some sand. Organic matter is a must, but a little sand will also be helpful while building the soil which takes forever. Try a fast growing cover crop too.


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## vtfarma (May 6, 2003)

When we moved in to our home in 1994 we had soil that was so hard that you could not till it. The heavy plows just bounced on the back unless we added one of the adults to it and then it only left a line. We had to go through and pick it with a pick, turn it all over with a shovel, plow then till. That happened only once. The next year we put manure (rotted horse with sawdust now, then cow with hay) 1 foot thick, plowed it in, tilled, planted. Repeat next year. Now we throw 4 to 6 inches on every other year. We have the most beautiful garden soil. We did try sand that first year in one of the flower beds - we had concrete. :no: Never again. 

Though when the other side of town that is all sand is brown in a drought, our yard is beautiful - cracked but beautiful.


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## Nan (May 13, 2002)

My grandmother, who in my opinion is the Guru of Gardening and been that for over 84 years!, LOVES sand and compost on her garden. She moved into town and her backyard looks like the Garden of Eden.....but before it was all hard red clay! She added LOTS of sand, LOTS of compost, and LOTS of manure! She got the composted rice hulls/chicken poo, from me. We have a 400 foot long barn full of it! and then she had them dump a load of sand on it...and lots of mulch...everything from leaves, to clippings, to sawdust, etc......

Her garden is very very rich and will grow everything! You can stick your hand down into her soil it is so wonderful! So the sand has to be added in large quantities...but I agree....Add it all the same! Composted manure is great stuff too! If you could get some wood chips down on your walk ways you would have it made! 

Biblically speaking...Wasn't it the straw that Pharoah took away from the Egyptians when they were making bricks(not sand)....and that made it hard to make them?
Straw takes absolutely forever to break down in your garden...it is GREAT for holding in the moisture when used around veggie plants...but that HAS, to have something to do with the straw in the brick recipe?


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## Dchall_San_Anto (Feb 17, 2004)

Straw is to adobe as woven glass is to fiberglass. It provides the matrix of strength which keeps the final product from pulling apart once it is bound up by the solidified "resin" of mud. 

But there is a limit to the amount of straw you can use. Beyond the limit, the more organic matter (which straw is a component) you have, the less strength you end up with in the final product. Organic matter will aslo give you a porosity that you don't want to have. For example if a bit of straw sticks out of the adobe brick and gets wet, the straw will "wick" the moisture inside of the brick, thus weakening it.


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## Timber (Jun 15, 2003)

I'm with poppy with this one. I have the type of yellowish clay soil. Been composting it on yearly bases for 20 years. What I get in the spring now mudballs the size of golf balls down to marbles. Hard when dries you have to rototill 10 or better times to break them up, and they still are present but smaller. I have to rake them off the seedbeds into the walkways. Looks like pebbles stone walkways. When it rains like every other day here you are into above the ankle deep in mud.

Now, I have a little understanding with sand for I'm ODOT certified for road materials. We manufacture different types of sand coarser for asphalt and finer for concrete, and a fine sand. We do make a manufactured sand for superpave which is made from crushing rocks. This is what I think sbeerman's link meant by "sharp sand figured" for this sand has a fracture faces compared to round natural of regular sand. Now a few years back we tried to make don't laugh golf course sand for the traps. This sand had a way out spec. 
So sand isn't sand per..say.

My gardens total 6000 square feet. One on top of a hill does ok two factors well drains second just open it up couple years ago from old pasture land. The one half way down is the problem. Did dug a ditch to channel surface and leeching water before it entering the garden. But what I think some of the problem lays in the standing water trap between the till soil and hardpan underneath. I'm in the progress of putting in 400' of drainage in this garden. Going with french drains, but thinking maybe plastic pipe. 

Well, I'm still fighting mud, going to do ph testing. 
With this input I've posted do the composters maybe move on adding sand? For me I could get dump trucks loads and be ten feet deep with no problem at all. I've also have about 30 two year old straw large round bales and a barnyard of wintering cattle manure that I could be twenty feet deep with compost also. 

Timber


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## HermitJohn (May 10, 2002)

southerngurl said:


> Try a fast growing cover crop too.


Yes, yes, yes. And you dont want to bury it as an organic layer between two layers of clay, you want to mix it into top four to six inches of soil. Read "Plowmans Folly". Its nice people have the money and strong back to buy and spread other amendments, but cover crop is lazy cheap way. If you do have money to spend do a Ruth Stout method where you use hay/straw as a deep surface mulch. I did it one year here when I latched onto some big bales of rotten hay at an auction for couple bucks. Works great, just expensive if you dont latch onto some cheap old hay/straw.

Oh I laughed on comments about hand spading a garden. I never cared for spade, but preferred a mattock. Those were the days. I dont have stamina to hand dig garden anymore. Reason I have a old farm moldboard plow to break new garden and a Gravely to do year to year plowing after that. Actually my oldest garden could easily be tilled with heavy hoe anymore. I wouldnt want to compact it by running farm tractor on it.


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## Guest (Apr 17, 2004)

Sand ,at best, is just a temp. solution and a poor one at that.Just as well do it right the frist time.Go get your self a nursery growers lic. then you'll be able to buy peat moss in bulk-all stores mark this up unbelivable high.Your great grandkids will still be adding sand to this garden long after your gone if its as bad as you say. You'll always add your compost,leaf mold ,poop and of course a cover crop each year.if your interested I could figure out how much peat you would need .If not I'll move on.I do this for a living and have a sat. guarantee and after 4 years only been called back once.


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## Mike in Ohio (Oct 29, 2002)

HermitJohn,

I'm trying the hay mulch method this year. I have 60 bales of hay that got wet in the rain and another 60 bales or so that have been sitting (for at least 5 years) in the old barn we bought. 

When I get around to cleaning out the lower level, the soil (floor) in half the barn look pretty rich. I'll probably scrape off a few inches and then lay some gravel back in. The other half of the barn has poured concrete floor.

Basically, I'm trying to prepare an area where I'm planting blue spruce seedlings and another area where I am planting fruit trees. I figure over time I can expand the prepared areas.

One comment I'll make for the wood chip crowd. You need to pay attention to what kind of tree you make the chips from. For example, do it from black walnuts and then try and plant tomatoes in that spot.....won't work!

Mike


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## GR8LIFE (Jun 15, 2002)

We have the hard red clay here in our Virginia garden and we have made a vast improvement by having horse manure dumped on it. Now, I'm talking a garden that is about forty by sixty feet and one year we had thirty tractor bucket loads from our neighbors manure pile. He was trying to get rid of it because it was just too big (most of it was several years old) and was happy to bring it over and dump it for us. Every year he comes over and brings as much as I want which is usually about ten loads. Since this is not fresh manure, I can plant right away in it. 
I do have a raised bed which I want to grow herbs in and I am not happy with it because it is mostly clay. I have been debating if I wanted to put a LOT of sand in it because most of the herbs I would grow are mediteranean in origin and I thought they might like a sandy bed. I think I will probably give it a go. 
Colleen


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## Guest (Apr 21, 2004)

Why not take a bucket of your dirt from your garden and start adding sand to it see how much you need to add and what happens wet, or if it just needs more compost/manure or all the above? Good luck LyteOra


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## Guest (May 9, 2004)

I live here in Central Illinois and have a large (25'X75') garden with a soil named Elliott Silt Loam. This stuff is about 60% clay even in the top 4". We have struggled with this stuff at our new house for a couple of years. Sounds alot like what you are dealing with, cold, wet, sticky, etc,etc. We can barely grow tomatos as the soil is so wet and cold so deep into spring that every pathogen that attacks plant life lives and thrives.
We have had great success with a combination of compost, shreded leaves, manure, and yes, lots of sand. We put a layer about 4" thick and hit it as deep as the big old Troy Built would go. INCREDIBLE RESULTS.
The stuff now dries out and warms up just like a "good" soil would. I'm not sure if the credit goes to the sand or all the organic matter, but the sand sure didn't hurt anything. I do believe the absolute key here is to use COARSE sand, not the fine stuff like in the kid's sand box.
Good luck, hope yer luck is as good as mine was.

Greg H. in Melvin, IL


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## Paquebot (May 10, 2002)

Greg, coarse sand indeed is correct. That's why I always specify river sand. Even that can vary. Had to pass by my favorite "mine" today but not without 5 pails and a shovel. Had to walk out about 20' onto the sandbar to find nice round coarse sand. That all went onto an area that has only two conditions, rock hard or sticky wet. This was after 2 inches of compost last fall and another inch today. That part of my lot has been sod forever but over construction fill. Only regret was that I didn't take 10 pails with me! 

Another part of my garden was "new" ground two years ago. Massive doses of compost helped but it was river sand which has made it possible for me to plant root crops such as carrots and parsnips which appreciate deep loose soil. Compost is great but it is just a temporary soil amendment. Sand is a permanent soil conditioner.

I'll slightly disagree with the comment about sandbox sand not being good. It all depends upon the source. Good sandbox sand indeed is round river sand but some people will sell any kind of sand such as leftover sharp road sand. When our city delivers sandbox sand, it is as good or better than what I brought home today.

Martin


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## southerngurl (May 11, 2003)

GR8LIFE, your so lucky. :waa: Even with all the trail riding places around here, I can't get any horse manure. They said they would call me if they ever had extra a year ago.


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## Jimmy Mack (May 7, 2004)

Lots of good soil structure information in this thread. Especially the cut and paste of Professor Chalker-Scott's article, "Myth of Soil Ammendments Part II". 

Both sand and humus will improve the texture of heavy clay soil.

For those of you who ended up with adobe or concrete, most likely it was because you were digging wet soil. IMO, DON'T DIG WET SOIL! Digging wet soil is THE quickest way to ruin soil structure regardless of the composition of the soil. 

happy cultivating  Jimmy


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## Guest (May 10, 2004)

Jimmy Mack, you really hit the nail on the head there but few people will understand why. As long as sub-surface clay is never exposed to the sun and air, it will stay damp and soft forever. And that "forever" is in terms of millions of years. It has a great water retention quality. Only when brought to the surface wet does it become a problem. With nothing to break it up, it just sits there and bakes in the sun. As it dries, the molecules lose their water and just bind tighter and tighter together. If it were a garden or lawn, deep wide cracks would develop. That won't happen if there is a certain percentage of sand in the mix. Sand is definite and will neither shrink nor expand no matter how wet or dry it becomes. The clay particles will shrink but the sand will not allow it to bond into solid blocks surrounded by deep cracks. 

Martin


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## tim1253 (Oct 4, 2002)

""Go get your self a nursery growers lic. then you'll be able to buy peat moss in bulk-all stores mark this up unbelivable high.""


Where do you buy the peat moss if you have a nursery growers lic.?


Tim
Knoxville, TN


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## Guest (Aug 31, 2004)

Beeman said:


> Our soil in this area is heavy reddish clay. We have gardened in this spot for 10 yrs. and added organic matter every year. it's better but still not what it should be. Has anyone tried tilling in sand to help break up the clay. i can get a dump truck load of sand and spread and rotovate it in.


Sand it. Dolomite Lime it. Fertilize it with a nitrogen fertilizer. Till it in nicely. Then plant the cover crops of Hairy Vetch and Winter Rye. [Overseed] then cover the entire garden area with the wood bark [small particles] 

Turn it all under 3-4 weeks before planting next season. Fertilize 3 times during the growing season next year with heavy nitrogen fertilizer. [I suggest fish fertilizer to enhance microbial growth.] 

This will fix your problem but will take the second summer to show. 

- Will grow your microbes properly.
- Will tap nutrients from deep in the clay.
- Will add lots of humus. [Green manure]

Be sure to grow a cover crop the next year also. I suggest Austrian Winter peas and Crimson Clover with perhaps alfalfa. This will further pull nutrients from deep in the clay soil and put Nitrogen back in the soil that the decay of the wood bark locks up.

George


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## Jimmy Mack (May 7, 2004)

here's an excellent read on adding sand to clay soil:

http://www.puyallup.wsu.edu/~Linda Chalker-Scott/Horticultural Myths_files/Myths/Amendments 2.pdf

from: 
http://www.puyallup.wsu.edu/~Linda Chalker-Scott/Horticultural Myths_files/index.html (this one is worth bookmarking!)


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## Paquebot (May 10, 2002)

Go to this first site and follow directions. Figure out what you have.

http://www.gardengatemagazine.com/basics/g29soil3.html

Then go to the soil triangle at the bottom of this next site. Find where your soil is within that triangle and determine what you want it to be. Adjust accordingly. 

http://wvlc.uwaterloo.ca/biology447/modules/module8/soil/chap2c.htm

God ain't the only one who can mix clay, sand, and silt to make loam!

Martin


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## Guest (Sep 2, 2004)

start with gypsum if you can buy a few tons cheaply then do a couple 3-4 inch layers of sand tilled in if you have silt at a local pit get some of that too at the last sand silt clay in roughly equal amounts make the ultimate loam then add plenty compost and you have built edens soil. by now you have a raised bed so even better. forget the highpriced juices that seperate fools from their cash. A foot of high grade topsoil should be adequate for most gardening purpose. I don't know who spread the concrete myth but it has gotten to a lot of the county agents so has been spread to many folks and written as gospel in way to many books. clay also improves sand so if you know a sand gardner maybe you can do a swap


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## ThunderGoddess (Aug 18, 2004)

Hey Beeman,
Guess we are neighbors. I live in east TN too and gave up on tilling or amending the soil and just decided to make raised beds. 12'x4'x2'. Easy to weed, easy to harvest, easy on the back, and you can put in your own soil mixture. Then added wood chips (because I had an abundance of them) on the paths to keep my feet out of the mud. On the end of each bed I added a trelis with wire and PVC pipe (once again it is what I had on hand) to grow my vertical stuff. I even have a few tires stacked 2 high planted with Squash and tomatoes. I used 18-wheeler tires that I got from the truck stop down the road. I put gravel in the bottom about 6-8 inches deep for drainage and to take up some space, then added my soil mixture on top. The tomatoes love the heat from the black tires and my back loves not stupping to weed. For the $ you are spending on sand you might could finish a few beds. Look for creative ways to make them, say free fallin timber, and a chainsaw. I have a friend that used trees that died from the bettle problem up here and cut them into 8' lenghts. made nice beds and they lasted 4 years.
Walk in Beauty,
Tama


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## mightybooboo (Feb 10, 2004)

George Portland said:


> Rye. [Overseed] then cover the entire garden area with the wood bark [small particles]
> 
> 
> George


I dont know much so heres my story.I have very fine silt for soil,lots of pine trees.I was covering the soil with bark pine chips i got from the dump.Soil was dark brown/black with LOTS of worms.Well,dump sold to privateers and free chips gone.So after 3 years no bark,this years soil is rock hard and no worms,water just rolls off and very expensive here so i cant soak it.Im now making a mulch/compost of pine needles,poo,veggie scraps and shredded paper I get from the junk mail.It makes a fairly successful ground cover.Im now trying just shredded papers over a garden bed,at least its keeping soil underneath moist.
Question:anybody else using this shredded paper as a ground cover?Or dug in,as in my mulch pile,where its dissolving pretty quickly?Seems like a nice use for a waste product.Wonder if it wouldnt work also with the organic matter in the clay soil example,worms seem to like it.
BooBoo


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## Paquebot (May 10, 2002)

BooBoo, your situation is a perfect example of why simply adding organic matter is only a temporary bandaid. Those who have a very high silt content often find themselves worse off than those with clay. When the prairies were opened up and the silt exposed, rains had to be timely or one of two things would happen. It either got as hard as a rock and cracked or blew away. Most of it ended up in Iowa! 

A problem with organic matter is that it is comprised of billions of tiny cells. When alive, most are more than 90% water. When they break down to individual cells, they are finer than talcum powder or cement or even clay. Then you are right back to square one. More and more gardeners are looking at their soil results and shaking their heads. The early idea of recycling organic matter was a great one and a lot of people became rich from it. Now many are learning that too much of a good thing can be worse than not having enough.

Not Stated also pointed out the long-standing clay + sand = bricks myth. And some CEAs even think that way? That does not surprise me since they often tell the masses what they want to hear, not what it right. They will tell you that the ideal soil may have 45% clay, 40% sand, and 15% silt and yet will tell you that you can't make it yourself. The next time you find someone who says that you can't do it, ask him/her to explain the soil triangle and why you "can't get there from here"! 

Martin


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## mightybooboo (Feb 10, 2004)

Paquebot said:


> BooBoo, your situation is a perfect example of why simply adding organic matter is only a temporary bandaid. Those who have a very high silt content often find themselves worse off than those with clay. When the prairies were opened up and the silt exposed, rains had to be timely or one of two things would happen. It either got as hard as a rock and cracked or blew away. Most of it ended up in Iowa!
> 
> Martin


Martin,Im so glad you replied,I was just telling the Mrs. its too bad we cant get out your way,as I sure would like to visit your place and see how you do your soil.
My yard TOTAL lot size is only 25X100 foot,plus same next door,and on a slope so we had to build retaining walls to have any flat areas at all.
To dig out the soil and remix a PROPER mix is out of the question,hauling dirt and such.That is why we are doing the organic supplement method,and it does work well,just need to keep up on it.And that I dont mind,since its small and needs little time,and I enjoy actually having something to do in the yard.
So its EXACTLY like you say,just a temporary measure needing upkeep.But it does work pretty well if you make some effort.
I just did another section of the shredded newsprint on a flower bed yesterday and watered,wohoo! once again the water DIDNT just roll of,but seems to soak right into the soil with the cover.I read in an old Mother earth news of a gardner putting newspaper sheets down and his success with it.What i like about the shredded stuff is its about 1/8 inch by 1/2 inch,so lots of room for water to pass,plus it looks like snow,with a little color,which is very nice since the color up here is only green and brown.I placed it right over a loose small amt of pine needles,and my experience is wet pine needles will actually break down,but dry ones last years.We have mandatory pine needle removal here,so the whole project has just been exciting,I even composted my neighbors' needles,and knocked that pile down 2/3s in size and its just about done now,and got some nice black fertile stuff from the pile.
Its been great fun.Cant wait til we get our acres and get to really prepare soil the right way!
BooBoo


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## DayBird (Jul 26, 2004)

mightybooboo said:


> We have mandatory pine needle removal here.


I'm being nosey again. Why do you have mandatory pine needle removal?


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## mightybooboo (Feb 10, 2004)

DayBird said:


> I'm being nosey again. Why do you have mandatory pine needle removal?


Beats me,seems its a fire hazard????
Sheesh,surrounded by pine trees with old wood houses,and the needles have to go?Go figure  
BooBoo


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## DayBird (Jul 26, 2004)

mightybooboo said:


> Beats me,seems its a fire hazard????
> Sheesh,surrounded by pine trees with old wood houses,and the needles have to go?Go figure
> BooBoo


Well to do folks around here can't get enough of the stuff. Most of the "really nice" neighborhoods have a mandatory mulch replacement twice every year. I usually rake it all up and toss it in with the chickens. Made a great compost that way. One year, Lowes sold out and one landscaper guy asked me if he could pay me to rake my yard. He paid me $300 for me to allow him to rake my yard. That was before we sold our land and moved. I can't wait to have my own land again. God really does move in mysterious ways.

Again, before we moved, we had added sand and compost to our clay garden every year. It got better and better. The best thing that I ever added to the red clay was ground corn cobs. It's organic, absorbs water well and at about 1/4 in diameter broke up the clay very well. Got it free from the petstore. I've written in several other threads in the past few weeks about this untouched source of compost material. I manage the store and now that I'm not bringing it home, we throw out about 50 large trash bags of compostable material every week. I have to pay so that it can be taken to the landfill. Once we move, it'll all be coming home with me again, as will the pallets.


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## mightybooboo (Feb 10, 2004)

DayBird said:


> Well to do folks around here can't get enough of the stuff. Most of the "really nice" neighborhoods have a mandatory mulch replacement twice every year. I usually rake it all up and toss it in with the chickens. Made a great compost that way. One year, Lowes sold out and one landscaper guy asked me if he could pay me to rake my yard. He paid me $300 for me to allow him to rake my yard. That was before we sold our land and moved. I can't wait to have my own land again. God really does move in mysterious ways.
> 
> Again, before we moved, we had added sand and compost to our clay garden every year. It got better and better. The best thing that I ever added to the red clay was ground corn cobs. It's organic, absorbs water well and at about 1/4 in diameter broke up the clay very well. Got it free from the petstore. I've written in several other threads in the past few weeks about this untouched source of compost material. I manage the store and now that I'm not bringing it home, we throw out about 50 large trash bags of compostable material every week. I have to pay so that it can be taken to the landfill. Once we move, it'll all be coming home with me again, as will the pallets.


Im sure learning a lot from this thread,thats for sure!
BooBoo


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## breezynosacek (Nov 7, 2003)

Beeman said:



> Paquebot,
> That's exactly what I had read that got me thinking adding sand.
> For the person that said it's only 60x100 and to double turn it with a fork ARE YOU NUTS? I'm long past turning my garden with a fork. I'm up to 2 teactors, a TroyBilt tiller and a rotovator for the tractor. As for the compost people, how much compost do you make or how fast can you make it? We have 2 compost piles and come up with enough for raised beds and some flower beds. I have houled leaves from the town dropoff in my pickup and a trailer for years. I mean leaves, like a couple of hundred bags of them. Garden is better but still not where I think it out to be.


Oh goodness I'm glad you said that rather than me! Yes, they are either nutts or inexperienced in clay soil! Reading about it and working it are two very different things.

We have clay here in central VA that some of the old timers call 'Push Dirt'.

Push Dirt is very fertile clayey soil. If you walk on push dirt when it is wet it will stick to the bottom of your shoe and by the time you get to the other end of the row you will be several inches taller cause it will stick to the bottom of your shoe and push you up!

On the other hand, we also have another type of clay that if it is wet you will sink and God have mercy if you get into it you will lose your shoes, or your tractor. Have a friend that lost his tractor last year. Sunk up past the axles.

So up near our house we have push dirt and at the bottom of the garden we have the swampy clay that swallows you up.

We put our chicken waste on it (straw and manure) and since we mix a lot of sand into it while it is in the chicken pen, we have found that it definitely improves the soil!!!

It must be tilled in because just like in the chicken pen, it will form a mat that will not dry out if you have clay. We now free range them.

Anyway, the first year the manure was too hot so we added some ashes and some more browns, tilled it in and we had a wonderful corner of our garden! I mean to tell you it grew and grew!


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## kathjn (Feb 10, 2006)

Ever try working in some gypsum. It can be purchased in many garden centers.


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## Pony (Jan 6, 2003)

I am a composting fiend, but I also add sand when I need to. It doesn't appear to have been a "temporary fix" and everything seems to be growing well. 

Maybe that's just cognitive dissonance, and I'm living in state of denial, but {shrug} it works for me.

Pony!


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## Paquebot (May 10, 2002)

Pony said:


> It doesn't appear to have been a "temporary fix"


Pony, should that be "doesn't" or "does"? By adding a little sand at a time, you are doing exactly what many of the gardening experts advise. One of the nationally recognized clay soil experts has gone on record as saying that he has never seen a clay soil made worse by addition of sand. 

Gypsum is not the ultimate answer for amending clay soil despite what the manufacturer may say. I won't go into detail other than saying that it does not apply to all soils. I personally would use it but only if my soil needed it and it was free!

Here's a site for beginners working with clay soil:
http://www.beginner-gardening.com/claysoilgardening.html

One also need to know approximately what you are working with and what you are aiming for before making a lot of changes. You'll find out how at this site:
http://doityourself.com/info/soilcommonsense.htm

When you find out what you have, you can determine exactly what it is via the universally accepted soil triangle here:
http://www.oneplan.org/Water/soil-triangle.shtml

The simplest recipe for dealing with clay soils is as follows: 
First year, add 15% sand and 10% composted organic matter. Second and all subsequent years, 10% composted organic matter.

Martin


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## Pony (Jan 6, 2003)

Paquebot said:


> Pony, should that be "doesn't" or "does"? By adding a little sand at a time, you are doing exactly what many of the gardening experts advise. One of the nationally recognized clay soil experts has gone on record as saying that he has never seen a clay soil made worse by addition of sand.
> Martin



That didn't come out right. I could blame this lousy bug I've got, but it's just that I was in a hurry. 

I meant that the fix isn't temporary -- it's worked very well indeed, and I continue to add sand when necessary.

Thanks for the cool links. I often look for your posts, Martin, because you have lots of good things to share.

Pony!


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## Paquebot (May 10, 2002)

Pony, the clay+sand=adobe myth is slowly crumbling as more and more become aware of the most desired soil textures. When someone uses that excuse, I simply ask them to show me where adobe falls within the soil triangle. 

We know that X amount of sand plus X amount of clay plus X amount of silt becomes a lovely loam. Sand, clay, and silt are the 3 basic components which make up soil. All 3 can exist in their own pure forms. Equally, all 3 can exist in every possible combination of any 2 or the 3 combined. Knowing the formula which produces something allows one to use the same ingredients to produce a like product. 

With that often comes the rebuttal that they can't be mixed. My advice then is to do the jar soil test. One no longer has a blended soil but the 2 or 3 basic elements entirely separated. Shake that jar and they are all back together again!

Martin


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## Kimberly in KS (Feb 10, 2006)

Jo in PA said:


> Beeman, I think I would listen to those who have used sand in the clay soil rather than those quoting books. I had a garden that was pure clay with alot of shale mixed in. It was old strippen land (they mined the clay off of it). And when they back filled they just made the land a mess by not putting the layers of dirt back the way they took it off. Anyhow, our garden was as hard as concrete. I added anything I could get my hands on. I used lots of sand, sawdust, compost, leaves, cow/chicken/rabbit/pig/turkey and horse manure. After only a few years our garden was showing great signs of improving. What was once really hard ground really loosened up and I could even grow beautiful carrots in it.


Here in Kansas the soil is clay also. I think Jo has the right idea. I also added many things to the soil, bags of Spagnum Peat Moss (which I think did wonders), sand, compost, worms, leaves, cow manure, etc.. I also made sure I added these items both in the spring and in the fall so it could over-winter. It took about three years but then the soil became workable and productive. I was gardening an area of about 40x50 at the time. It was always a challenge to plant in a new spot, this soil was the demise of many a freshly planted tree! Clay soil is extremely frustrating!! I feel your pain! :bash: Since you have a large area have you tried winter rye? It is a cover crop that when tilled under improves your soil. Here's an article on it:http://www.colostate.edu/Depts/CoopExt/4DMG/Soil/plntfall.htm


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## sapphira (Mar 24, 2003)

Straw. We live in VA and had the red clay. I use bags of mulch from a tractor and tire co. and then one year I used straw in frustration because garden would not just loosen up. Had a great garden ever since but dig in mulch every year. I recommend squares so you never step on actual garden and compact it. If you skip a year, you have a little harder time. 14 years of this. S.


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## Alice In TX/MO (May 10, 2002)

I'm going to toss in another suggestion, similar to the Ruth Stout mention above. Tilling is just too much work. Layer it on, mulch on top, plant.

Lasagne gardening....

http://www.motherearthnews.com/library/1999_April_May/Lasagna_Gardening


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## Paquebot (May 10, 2002)

Sapphira, you already know what happens to all that straw that is used to temporarily amend clay soil. In one year, it breaks down to almost individual cells not much larger than the clay particles. Skip a year and you're back to square one. The same thing will happen to any ordinary organic matter no matter if it's in the soil or on top of the soil. Just takes a little longer when it it exposed to the air. The straw is a band-aid with little effect on the "wound" itself.

Rose, the recipe in the MEN magazine has one major component which makes it last longer, a lot of peat. I don't think that I would wish to invest that much money in a 40x50 garden. Did you realize that the depth of that was 24"? I couldn't generate that much material in 10 years!

Martin


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## SquashNut (Sep 25, 2005)

What we need to do is rename the type of sand we are adding to the soil, so people don't think we add the tiny stuff. My sand is put on the top of the soil as a slug deterent and then dug in as the soil is prepared for new crops. That way it has double purpose.


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## rocket (Sep 9, 2005)

Does anyone here have any experience with using wood charcoal as a soil ammendment? I saw a documentary recently about the "terra preta" soils in the Amazon which contain charcoal and are much more fertile than the surrounding soil. The charcoal is supposed to provide a good environment for beneficial microbes and to possibly keep water from leaching nutrients out of the soil. Anyway, I wondered if it might also help improve the texture of clay soils.


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## Paquebot (May 10, 2002)

Rocket, when you start adding non-soil elements, the changes are only temporary and the results may be far from what you desire. Wood charcoal is not one of the recommended amendments to any soil. Unlike alkaline ashes, wood charcoal is usually acidic. With Amazonian "slash and burn" tactics, the soil pH changes are very temporary due to the constant leaching by frequent rains. After a few heavy rains, the pH changes rapidly. 

Also, to be effective in a heavy clay soil, anything used would have to be milled into a granular form only slightly larger than normal river sand. In the dry heavy calcite soils of the SW, a popular soil amendment is lava sand which serves the dual purpose of improving the soil structure and water retention.

SquashNut, one can consider just about any river sand as being OK for use in changing soil texture. Virtually all of the sands sold for use in gardens and sand boxes are washed river sand. Last year was the first time that our local Wal*Mart carried such sand and it was indeed especially for gardens and sand boxes. Other than being slightly lighter in color than my normal source, the only difference was a lack of any dust. That dust would have been the normal clay and silt particles which would usually also be found in river sand deposits. They had been washed out so that it could also double as play sand.

Martin


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## tyusclan (Jan 1, 2005)

I grew the garden when I worked at the County Jail, and it was pure clay when we started. I added several dump truck loads of sand and tilled it in about 18 inches deep. It helped a LOT to loosen the clay. We also added a lot of organic matter, and a truck load of mushroom compost. By the third year, the soil was much improved. I don't think it would have been that good without the sand.


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## Paquebot (May 10, 2002)

Tyusclan, you did something there that indicates that you knew just a little more about working with clay than most others do. You went real deep, another key when working with such material. If the real heavy clay continues down a lot deeper than you till, it doesn't matter what you add since you're creating an underground stream. Instead of vertical drainage, it becomes horizontal. That must be solved to avoid having the plants with wet feet despite an apparently dry surface. Then you either have to install and maintain a drainage system or punch holes deep into the ground. Easier to just till deep via whatever method equals the depth of "double digging", 18". It would take twice the amount of sand but texture would be carefree for the rest of your life. 

Martin


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## tyusclan (Jan 1, 2005)

I can't remember for sure how many loads of sand we added, but I think it was 10. That equated to about 250 tons of sand. I had the Road Dept. guys bring in their road tiller that they use to prepare road beds. That thing went DEEP! At least 18 inches. It was absolutely unworkable until we added the sand. After a couple of years of crop roots, and crop residue, as well as adding more compost, the soil was really improving when I transferred to another department.


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