# Looks like a very bad night here tonight - rioting



## naturelover (Jun 6, 2006)

After the Stanley Cup game ended a short while ago, the Canucks lost and a crowd of about a 100 disappointed fans took to rioting in the streets of Vancouver, they're wreaking havoc in the downtown core of the city right at this moment. There are thousands and thousands of people down there, many with their young families, trying to dispurse away from the mayhem. 

The rioters have burned 2 cars that exploded, they're setting furniture on fire, knocked over rows of portable toilets that were set up for the crowds of thousands of people there in the streets watching the game on big screens. A crowd broke into the front entrance of the Bank of Montreal and smashed out all the windows from the inside. Somebody got pushed off the viaduct and was badly injured. Thousands of people are milling around recording and tweeting it all to internet and many are cheering every time they hear an explosion. 

The police and horses are there with full riot gear but at this point unable to get anything really under control, they've only been able to push the crowd back by 2 blocks cleared of people. I can hear ambulances and police sirens sounding off in other parts of the city too that aren't covered by the news coverage.

This has been going on for nearly an hour now. It's so awful to be watching this happening right here. I'm so sad that such a small crowd like that could incite and cause so much disruption and trouble.

.


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## whiskeylivewire (May 27, 2009)

I will never understand rioting over sports(or much of anything really). I mean, I love the STL Cardinals, but I'm not gonna go tear up the Arch if they lose! It's almost becoming a prep to not go to a large city anymore.


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## mightybooboo (Feb 10, 2004)

Idiots.


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## seedspreader (Oct 18, 2004)

I hope it all turns out ok Naturelover. Stay safe.

This further illustrates to me that no nation on this earth is safe from rioting and if folks will riot over a sporting event, they'll absolutely riot for food and finances.


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## naturelover (Jun 6, 2006)

I don't understand this either. Everyone was of course disappointed at the Canucks loss but people were gracious and cheered the Bruins over their win of the Stanley Cup, even the thousands of people in the streets were still having a good time and partying nicely in the streets. And then just all of a sudden this rioting started in one particular street with one particular group and all hell has let loose. They are ALL very young men. I've never seen anything like this on the streets of Vancouver before, not like this. The police seem to be managing to get most of the crowds of the innocent non-rioters dispersed away from the area, but still hundreds of people hanging around smiling and laughing and taking pictures. This behaviour is just shocking!

.


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## mightybooboo (Feb 10, 2004)

Sickening actually.


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## AngieM2 (May 10, 2002)

Sorry to hear that you're near that, and that it's even happening.

I hope you can stay inside for at least over night to let the police get it cleared up. Be safe.


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## naturelover (Jun 6, 2006)

I'm not near it Angie, I'm okay, I'm about 5 miles away from it up on a hill and watching it all live on TV, but I can see the huge cloud of smoke and hear all the fire engine sirens from here through the windows. A multi-level parkade has been set on fire now, there are many other cars in there on fire now apparently.

I'm okay but it's not going to be a quiet night around here now. There's about 100,000 spectators trying to get out of the downtown core now.

.


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## wyld thang (Nov 16, 2005)

i'm sorry NL. sending you a peace dispersal booster vibe.


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## HomeOnTheFarm (Mar 9, 2004)

I don't like using the term, but...idiots. Once the innocents have been removed, I would hope that a spray-down from the fire engines will drown their motivation.


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## naturelover (Jun 6, 2006)

For what it's worth, it's been noted by the police and the newscasters that all of the people that are doing the rioting are NOT wearing either Canucks or Bruins jerseys and many of them came prepared with face-masks to cover their identities. It's starting to look like this might have been a riot that was planned in advance no matter what the outcome of the game.

The police are doing a great job of getting the crowds moved out now and are getting ready to bring the water canons out against the rioters.

.


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## cast iron (Oct 4, 2004)

naturelover said:


> I don't understand this either. Everyone was of course disappointed at the Canucks loss but people were gracious and cheered the Bruins over their win of the Stanley Cup, even the thousands of people in the streets were still having a good time and partying nicely in the streets. And then just all of a sudden this rioting started in one particular street with one particular group and all hell has let loose. They are ALL very young men. I've never seen anything like this on the streets of Vancouver before, not like this. The police seem to be managing to get most of the crowds of the innocent non-rioters dispersed away from the area, but still hundreds of people hanging around smiling and laughing and taking pictures. This behaviour is just shocking!
> .


Didn't this also happen back in the early 90's? 1993ish or so?


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## manygoatsnmore (Feb 12, 2005)

I just don't understand the whole mentality behind senseless violence. Pitiful.


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## naturelover (Jun 6, 2006)

Wayne02 said:


> Didn't this also happen back in the early 90's? 1993ish or so?


Yes, games in 1994, but that was nothing like this. This started off tonight with a small group of young hooligans vandalizing and it's escalated into mob mentality with many more rioters caught up in the fever of it, all very young people and now they are spreading out and looting many, many buildings, (Sears, Hudsons Bay, etc.) stealing armloads of merchandise and throwing it around. Police are using tear gas and pepper spray now to disperse the rioters now, and bringing out the rubber bullets and water canons. It's an absolute disgrace.

.


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## Sanza (Sep 8, 2008)

What that bunch of rioters need is a good spray of tear gas to make them lose their desire to cause trouble. Then if that doesn't make them break it up then the cops should let the dogs loose.
I"m scared that you're right seedspreader......this will be everyday occurances soon when these young guys with no respect for anyone or anything else get hungry.


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## naturelover (Jun 6, 2006)

Sanza said:


> What that bunch of rioters need is a good spray of tear gas to make them lose their desire to cause trouble. Then if that doesn't make them break it up then the cops should let the dogs loose....


Sanza, they're already using tear gas on the rioters and letting the dogs loose. The rioting is still escalating. There are fist fights and stabbings happening. St. Paul's Hospital is filling up with injured people. It's looking like it was an organized Black Bloc type of riot with many agitators in the crowds. It's a real nightmare downtown right now.

.


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## megafatcat (Jun 30, 2009)

I looked at some photos and really cannot think of what to say. Stay safe all. Hope it stays away from me, mine, y'all and yours.


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## tab (Aug 20, 2002)

Crazy, how much is that going to cost? Insuransce and taxpayers will be picking up the tab. Not just outright damage but lost business. Would not want to he a cop for anything. Goons like the rioters have no morales. Stay safe and thanks for posting as it makes one think (hopefully).


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## Riverrat (Oct 14, 2008)

I had hoped that this was not going to happen this time, especially after the standing ovation in the stands after the game....These are not fans, they are idiots who went there to cause trouble, win or loose....Hope you are safe, and that things are starting to get back to normal out that way....


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## seedspreader (Oct 18, 2004)

I think we can all understand that there are people there who went PURPOSELY to cause problems, but let's not say "this isn't fans" because there ARE fans involved in it.

My point simply being it's a "mob riot" because the mentality sucks others into the actions. It may have started out with a handful, but it had grown to include a bunch of people including fans and other spectators.


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## NewGround (Dec 19, 2010)

Odd phenomena but it happens here in the states...

Rioting whether you win or lose...

I just don't get it...

Time to man the bunker and double check all your preps and defenses as an exercise...

Stay safe...


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## Riverrat (Oct 14, 2008)

You are right Seedspreader...mob mentality took over.


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## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

Vancouver is my hometown and where most of my family is.

This mob will be brought to justice. Everything is well documented and already there is a Facebook page to ID and turn in the guilty. The people of Vancouver will not let them get away with it.


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## stickinthemud (Sep 10, 2003)

DH & I were in Vancouver and missed the G20 protests here in Pittsburgh. Similar violence & vandalism turned out to be largely the work of one man. Sounds like more of his ilk looking for trouble wherever they can find a crowd to hide in. The G20 vandal was from out of town, hope he's in jail not Vancouver.


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## Jim-mi (May 15, 2002)

All this for a stupid hockey game . . . . . .

Whats gonna happen when something real happens . . . . Bank doors locked . . . .etc. etc.


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## beachcomber (Dec 2, 2008)

big citys are the sewer of the earth


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## Kari (Mar 24, 2008)

This website (National Post News) has posted some photos of the riots last night. **Warning** this link is not suitable for dial up modems due to the sheer size and number of the photos.


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## ne prairiemama (Jan 30, 2010)

NL everything still ok with you? I hope everything has calmed down now!



> This further illustrates to me that no nation on this earth is safe from rioting and if folks will riot over a sporting event, they'll absolutely riot for food and finances.


I agree SS


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## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

ne prairiemama said:


> NL everything still ok with you? I hope everything has calmed down now!
> 
> 
> 
> I agree SS


Vancouver is a Large city and the rioting was in the downtown in one small area where the only people living are in condo's and apartments. There was only a danger for those who were down there to see the game and to watch in the areas set up in the streets.


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## Wags (Jun 2, 2002)

It doesn't take much for mob mentality to take over, especially if alcohol helps fuel it. It is events like these that I point to when people say "oh no one (here) would ever riot over banks closing or food shortages."


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## JuliaAnn (Dec 7, 2004)

There seems to be a growing mob mentality lately. The hit and run crimes in Chicago, gangs of young people suddenly attacking for no apparent reason, and now this. I don't think there is any thought of consequences... after all, so many thugs commit crimes and get away with it completely that those of a similar mindset think they might as well join in the fun too.

I hope everything has calmed down, and I hope those who participated are prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law and not just slapped on the hand by the judicial system there. 

If some are willing to incite riots and violence over a hockey game, you can be darn sure they'll incite riot and even murder over money, food, or welfare issues.


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## farmerpat (Jan 1, 2008)

If people riot after something as ridiculous as losing a sporting event, it is only a small indicator of what will happen if food/water/electricity, etc should become interrupted or rationed. Just another reason to prep for what's coming down the road, and have your BOB plans in place NOW.


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## Usingmyrights (Jan 10, 2011)

Rubber buckshot, beanbag rounds and if you reload rocksalt shotgun rounds. That should deter most rioters.


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## Harry Chickpea (Dec 19, 2008)

Stunning. The race riots of past decades were understandable. This is something far more sinister, and the backlash may be even more damaging.

I've just been doing a quick check of the news sites online, and I'm finding that the riots are being downplayed. Weiner is resigning and that has the headline (as if anyone gives a ....) CNN has an IBM 100 year anniversary as the big image. I fear we are seeing some major media manipulation in an attempt to keep this "local" and not spread the rioting idea to other cities. As Scoobie would say, "Rhuh-row"


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## Kari (Mar 24, 2008)

Harry Chickpea said:


> Stunning. The race riots of past decades were understandable. This is something far more sinister, and the backlash may be even more damaging.
> 
> I've just been doing a quick check of the news sites online, and I'm finding that the riots are being downplayed. Weiner is resigning and that has the headline (as if anyone gives a ....) CNN has an IBM 100 year anniversary as the big image. I fear we are seeing some major media manipulation in an attempt to keep this "local" and not spread the rioting idea to other cities. As Scoobie would say, "Rhuh-row"


There are few thousand + links at Google news from all major media outlets for this riot story. I also see no less then 3 links to the riot on CNN"s front page so the theory of "media manipulation" and keeping it "local" is a bit skewed.


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## SquashNut (Sep 25, 2005)

The idea that people are so dumb that they hear about rioting and they get riled up so much that they join is hillarious.
This sounds to me like a planned riot by some anarchists. Intensional terrorism of a sort.


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## Harry Chickpea (Dec 19, 2008)

Kari said:


> There are few thousand + links at Google news from all major media outlets for this riot story. I also see no less then 3 links to the riot on CNN"s front page so the theory of "media manipulation" and keeping it "local" is a bit skewed.


It used to be easier to describe this type of manipulation. We used to say stuff like "it got buried on page 3". It is possible to bury a news item on the front page if you know what people look for and key in on.

I can't do a screen grab of the CNN US page without possible copyright infringement, so I won't do that. The primary focus was the IBM anniversary, which no editor in his right mind would put as a lead story, even in a technical journal. It had the huge image. The text line links are the equivalent of classified ads. People click on them if, and only if, they think the news might affect the or their loved ones. The small images of videos are not much better.

Weiner is a non-story as well. The scandal is over, the folks that got all hot and bothered over it are flushing their toilets and moving on. 

A media outlet can't totally ignore a major event without some fallout. However, the air time, placement, and reporting can minimize or maximize the impact of the event in the minds of viewers/readers.

For someone casually clicking on the CNN page, it looks like another dull newsday, and "riots" has become such a commonplace word that it has little impact or interest.

I'll try to address this a different way, so that you can better understand my comment:

In a week or less, the Weiner wiener will be old news and have little impact other than some lingering comedy routines.

In a day or less, people will go "Who Cares" about the IBM anniversary.

The problems of increasing violence in sport fans, the problems of a whole sector of the young folks going wilding, and the potential for a culture that becomes accepting of public violence as "normal" is a huge issue that will get worse, and will likely end up killing dozens if not hundreds over the next few years.

Of the three stories, which one would an unencumbered journalist with even half a brain choose as the lead story? Choosing the IBM anniversary is more than "a bit skewed", it is a flagrant disservice to the readers and public good.

Rest assured, those who make money from professional sports want the story of the rioting buried. The city of Vancouver, which depends on a particular "image" and tourism, wants the story buried. The leaders of government, who want to minimize the public attention so as to slow the growth of the disease and not reward the rioters with fame, want the story minimized. All of those have money, power, and influence. Their desires come before your "need" to have an unmanipulated news stream. THAT is media manipulation.


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## glwalker (Apr 19, 2005)

Something is seriously wrong with society these days. The rioting is completely senseless. The rioters are showing their pride in Vancouver by tearing the city to pieces? And it looks as though it was a nice city before the store windows started being smashed and cars started being burned.


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## Kari (Mar 24, 2008)

Harry Chickpea said:


> Rest assured, those who make money from professional sports want the story of the rioting buried. The city of Vancouver, which depends on a particular "image" and tourism, wants the story buried. The leaders of government, who want to minimize the public attention so as to slow the growth of the disease and not reward the rioters with fame, want the story minimized. All of those have money, power, and influence. Their desires come before your "need" to have an unmanipulated news stream. THAT is media manipulation.


While I agree that no local .gov, organization or business wants to be seen in a bad light and not be caught in the media glare, I hardly think that one team and one city, can or have the influence on *worldwide* media to the point of manipulation to hide the riot story...

Obviously we will probably never agree on this and I don't wish to hijack the original thread topic any further here. PM me if you want to continue this angle of the media manipulation story further.


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## Harry Chickpea (Dec 19, 2008)

The rioting is the larger issue, and I'll merely point out that the media does not exist in a vacuum, and depends heavily upon money and approval for success. Reporters for FOX or MSNBC who do not "toe the line" get dismissed. Rogue editors can get canned too. Sports is a HUGE HUGE income stream that involves a lot of powerful people. I'll agree to disagree with you.

The concern I have on the riots is that will spread, they will become more accepted, and that in efforts to limit them the police will limit the rights and freedoms of regular citizens.


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## mightybooboo (Feb 10, 2004)

painterswife said:


> Vancouver is my hometown and where most of my family is.
> 
> This mob will be brought to justice. Everything is well documented and already there is a Facebook page to ID and turn in the guilty. The people of Vancouver will not let them get away with it.


They already did,all thats left is the cleanup.


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## mightybooboo (Feb 10, 2004)

Kari said:


> There are few thousand + links at Google news from all major media outlets for this riot story. I also see no less then 3 links to the riot on CNN"s front page so the theory of "media manipulation" and keeping it "local" is a bit skewed.


We got 30 seconds on the 11 oclock news,and very limited film. Its there if you look though.MSM wasnt interested in our market.ABC,CBS,NBC and Fox all.

They found with the Euro soccer riots it was only a few people causing the entire situation.I have to say tho,sports fans are ,let me put it this way,something im NOT for a reason,and serving em booze is really dumb.


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## mightybooboo (Feb 10, 2004)

Kari said:


> one team and one city, can or have the influence on *worldwide* media to the point of manipulation to hide the riot story...


The worldWIDE MSM media is controlled by just a handful of old men.They can and DO set what we see on MSM,where most get their opinions on world events.

HC-
"The concern I have on the riots is that will spread, they will become more accepted, and that in efforts to limit them the police will limit the rights and freedoms of regular citizens. "

Right you are,never let a good story go to waste.You are spot on.


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## tab (Aug 20, 2002)

Nice post HC.


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## hsmom2four (Oct 13, 2008)

I watched the game last night from my hospital bed (big bruins fans here  ). They said there were riots in '94 when they lost to the Rangers. I wondered if anything would happen as I drifted off to happy land after my two percocets kicked in. I was literally shocked this morning when I turned on the news and saw the video clips. Very, very sad. Just wait until something really bad happens.


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## seedspreader (Oct 18, 2004)

SquashNut said:


> The idea that people are so dumb that they hear about rioting and they get riled up so much that they join is hillarious.
> This sounds to me like a planned riot by some anarchists. Intensional terrorism of a sort.


First of all, most people here said that there were some folks that did it intentionally.

Second of all, you don't understand mobs if you don't think that people get caught up in it.

Unless of course you're suggesting that THOUSANDS of people acted together to plan this riot at precisely the time of the game being over... to which case, I would again say you don't understand mobs very well.

There is a large contingent of people around the world who are only constrained by the fewer and lesser good and decent people.

Go to spring break just one year down at Daytona... you'll get an eye opener how straight laced Junior, who carried a 3.5 GPA in college and never once was late to class can act when surrounded by the crowd.

Nope, there were certainly instigators, but the vast majority of that mob saw an opportunity to behave badly hidden in the anonymity of a crowd.

It's just their true character revealed.


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## GoldenCityMuse (Apr 15, 2009)

The point I want to make is that large crowds are DANGEROUS!
To be safer, don't be in with large crowds at all, if you can choose. All types entertainment venues are becoming more dangerous each day.

If you absolutely must go, park tactically and sit near working exits.

Tactical parking:
Always park facing out [ie back into the parking space].
Park at the far edge of the lot, next to an access street .
Drive a vehicle with sufficient clearance to drive over curbs if needed.


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## Txsteader (Aug 22, 2005)

seedspreader said:


> It's just their true character revealed.


It sure does. Have y'all seen this video? This is truly frightening; watch how quickly they attack the man for trying to stop them.

http://www.realradio.fm/cc-common/mainheadlines3.html?feed=425022&article=8715092


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## DaleK (Sep 23, 2004)

If in any of the various videos out there you see a guy riding through the streets on a moped with a backpack full of fire extinguishers putting out fires the FD hasn't gotten to yet, I grew up with him before he moved out there.


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## mightybooboo (Feb 10, 2004)

DaleK said:


> If in any of the various videos out there you see a guy riding through the streets on a moped with a backpack full of fire extinguishers putting out fires the FD hasn't gotten to yet, I grew up with him before he moved out there.


Thats a GOOD man!

That video shows its just a few sorry pitiful animals causing the trouble,got some good looks,you know its not going to go well for them when rounded up.

As for the mob,a semi .22 would break em up real fast if it was CHTF days,take out the instigators they arent much really from what Im seeing.Bear spray would be effective too,gonna have to get more of that.

reminds me of the LA riots and the Koreans protecting their stores,the sorry cowards took off elsewhere.


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## Terri (May 10, 2002)

When I was a kid there was rioting in the USA, and I remember the underlying emotion of the rioters as being anger. 

The CANADIAN rioters seem full of JOY as they riot! Too wierd!


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## MoonRiver (Sep 2, 2007)

Just shoot them. No better than a rabid dog.


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## mightybooboo (Feb 10, 2004)

Good point Terri,which is why I think they arent that dangerous,me thinks they would run real quick vrs looking for a confrontation of FORCE that gets em HURT.

Pretty pitiful behavior isnt it.


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## naturelover (Jun 6, 2006)

Just an update on this riot. First of all, the citizens of this city are reeling in shock and grief over what happened here. This has been a nightmare for all of us and is a black eye for our beautiful, peaceful city.

The riot was not instigated by fans and citizens of this city, it was a planned riot instigated by out-of-town Black Shirt Anarchists who came into the city armed with incendiary devices and other weapons with the full intention of causing a riot no matter what the outcome of the game. They knew full well that by instigating a riot that other young people in the crowd would get caught up in the frenzy of mob mania. Over 100 of them were arrested last night, most of the instigators are recognized now as the same people who instigated riots during the G-20 conferences in Toronto and Copenhagen last year. 

Many of the citizens who were taking photos are now helping the justice system by turning in to the police all their photographs and videos to help police identify the other rioters who got caught up in the mania. 

Many citizens who were on the scene bravely tried to stop the rioters and did what they could to help police, medics and fire fighters to defend the downtown core. They defended businesses, innocent bystanders and linked arms to surround and protect injured individuals from rioters until ambulances could arrive to take the injured away.

Off duty peace keepers, firemen and medics throughout the Lower Mainland who were home watching the game on TV immediately left home when they saw the news about the riots and fires and came into the city to help. That includes peace officers and firemen from other jurisdictions and cities. They are all to be commended and so are all the other ordinary citizens who arose to the occasion and tried to help.

This riot was not about a hockey game. It was about anarchy and filthy minded, cowardly anarchists taking advantage of a crowded situation to instigate a destructive riot. Take heed, this could be coming to a town near you where ordinary citizens are gathered together to have fun.

For anyone interested here is the police report issued today, it is a 41 minute long video detailing what happened. Please note - If you read the article beneath the video there is one part of it has been reported incorrectly about citizens thwarting police efforts, where it says Police Chief Chu described how the crowds were trying to prevent the police from doing their jobs by linking arms and trying to stop them helping a man who was injured on the ground. That was incorrect reporting and Police Chief Chu describes in the video that citizens with linked arms were protecting an injured citizen from rioting crowds.

http://www.globaltvbc.com/Vancouver+riot+2011+Police+press+conference+June+round/4958585/story.html

Out of all the photos of this riot that I've seen posted on the net, this one is the most incongruous of them all, and no, it's not photoshopped - it's real :huh::


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## Txsteader (Aug 22, 2005)

Terri said:


> The CANADIAN rioters seem full of JOY as they riot! Too wierd!


Exactly (I forgot to make that point about the video). One instant they're laughing, the next instant they're viciously attacking someone like a pack of wild dogs. Bizarre!


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## Rainy (Jan 21, 2010)

How very sad...


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## rickfrosty (Jun 19, 2008)

seedspreader said:


> I hope it all turns out ok Naturelover. Stay safe.
> 
> This further illustrates to me that no nation on this earth is safe from rioting and if folks will riot over a sporting event, they'll absolutely riot for food and finances.



Yep, an then comes the Martial Law, no ?


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## Harry Chickpea (Dec 19, 2008)

Time for some serious education in the major cities. Skip the "news" of the whales, political farts, and eco-nonsense. Teach basic civic responsibility and the consequences of not having same.

There are a couple of incongruous places I would enjoy seeing these "anarchists" try to raise havoc. Rural north Alabama and China. I suspect the end results might be similar, that the ranks would be severely trimmed.


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## naturelover (Jun 6, 2006)

Txsteader said:


> > Originally Posted by *Terri*
> > _The CANADIAN rioters seem full of JOY as they riot! Too wierd!_
> 
> 
> Exactly (I forgot to make that point about the video). One instant they're laughing, the next instant they're viciously attacking someone like a pack of wild dogs. Bizarre!


I don't say this with either pride or loathing, just want to comment that your observations are astute and correct. Canadians as a general rule are very peaceful and polite people but when they do get their dander up and go on a riot over something they are not *****cats about it. They see red and become enthusiastically joyful berserkers, much worse than a pack of wild dogs. That is why it took over 6 hours for such a small mob of rioters to be quelled in last night's incident. The Canadian people's "berserker" tendency is only one of the reasons why Canadian military were known as Storm Troopers sent to the leading edge of military offences during the wars in Europe. All I can say is thank God that none of last night's youthful Canadian rioters were trained in military tactics.

.


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## AngieM2 (May 10, 2002)

naturelover - I'm sorry that happened. I hope the instigators get the law books thrown at them full force.


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## wyld thang (Nov 16, 2005)

i'm glad the culprits were identified! 

um, "make love, not war" YEAH!


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## naturelover (Jun 6, 2006)

AngieM2 said:


> naturelover - I'm sorry that happened. I hope the instigators get the law books thrown at them full force.


I hope so too Angie. I hope the whole truth will come out. I've been reading around on the net and people everywhere who don't know all of what happened are saying horrible things about Canada and Canadian people because of last night's riot. It's heartbreaking to me that so many people are willing to believe the worst and condemn an entire nation without even knowing all the facts about the incident.

Anyway, it's over now and the city's being cleaned up. An army of volunteers showed up downtown at the crack of dawn this morning helping municipal workers to get the mess cleaned up and they're still there working at it. :thumb:

.


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## seedspreader (Oct 18, 2004)

naturelover said:


> I hope so too Angie. I hope the whole truth will come out. I've been reading around on the net and people everywhere who don't know all of what happened are saying horrible things about Canada and Canadian people because of last night's riot. * It's heartbreaking to me that so many people are willing to believe the worst and condemn an entire nation without even knowing all the facts about the incident.*
> 
> Anyway, it's over now and the city's being cleaned up. An army of volunteers showed up downtown at the crack of dawn this morning helping municipal workers to get the mess cleaned up and they're still there working at it. :thumb:
> 
> .


We're used to it in America...


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## mightybooboo (Feb 10, 2004)

naturelover said:


> are saying horrible things about Canada and Canadian people because of last night's riot. It's heartbreaking to me that so many people are willing to believe the worst and condemn an entire nation
> .


I dont think people are seeing that,they are seeing a few idiots mostly IMO.


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## naturelover (Jun 6, 2006)

wyld thang said:


> um, "make love, not war" YEAH!


LOL, yeah. That was the first thing I thought when I saw that picture, I'm sure many other people thought the same thing. That one picture has now gone viral all over the net. 

.


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## Darren (May 10, 2002)

HomeOnTheFarm said:


> I don't like using the term, but...idiots. Once the innocents have been removed, I would hope that a spray-down from the fire engines will drown their motivation.


That would have been my plan from the start. Prestage engines with deck guns or monitors behind police lines. Getting hit with 150 gallons per minute, or more ... much more, at high pressure will take the starch out of any crowd.


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## naturelover (Jun 6, 2006)

I'll just make one more post about this to address some of the comments about how the police could have / should have taken out the rioters while safely clearing the city of 100,000 innocent spectators with their families. The police were faced with a dire and rather unusual logistical dilemma as to how to protect the spectators and get them out safely first before dealing more sternly with all of the hundreds of escalating rioters. 

As you can see in the picture below of the downtown business core of the city it is surrounded by ocean water on 3 sides. There are 4 bridges crossing the water to other parts of the city (in the picture you can't see the 4th bridge on the north side of Stanley Park, the view of it is blocked by tall trees in the park) and the only other way out of the city core without crossing a bridge goes thataway ----> as shown on the picture. 

The 100,000 spectators were all on foot. They didn't bring cars into the city as there isn't adequate parking in such a small city business core. They all arrived downtown by buses and by rail. Once the riot started the electric buses and rail lines had to be shut down in the downtown core (right in the middle of the city core is where the riot occurred) because it wasn't safe. The electric lines had been compromised and buses and rail cars with passengers were at risk of being attacked and set on fire by the rioters. So most of the spectators had to evacuate on foot in as orderly a manner as possible to the other sides of the bridges to catch transportation. 

The most important thing for the police was to clear the downtown core of innocent people first before they could begin to take rougher and more dangerous measures with the rioters. Evacuating that many people on foot out of the midst of a riot and across 4 bridges is not as easy as it may sound. 

I thought under the circumstances that the police did a very good job of dealing first with the safe evacuation of innocents while trying to control the rioters and then taking much rougher measures to deal with the rioters once the streets were cleared of innocent citizens. 












.


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## mightybooboo (Feb 10, 2004)

I'll bet they have a much more effective plan next time (maybe?Finally??),which brings up the point. Since this seems to be pretty normal nowadays to have this idiocy after sporting events,shouldnt they have figured out a game plan by now for dealing with this fairly pre drawn conclusion that this is going to happen?

This reminds of the main road up here getting completely shutdown after every major snow storm at the ski resort,and hearing every year the excuses why they were 'surprised' and failed to deal with it? 

If they cant hold these events without rioting then maybe the teams can start paying the costs? Lets start adding the costs to the tickets?? Lets start holding someone responsible,this event didnt 'just happen',there was an underlying cause,the event itself. 

Why is this now the citizenry responsibility to pay the costs? How about the guy making the money off this,the team owners whose events are a menace to public safety and everyone elses pocketbook who suffer losses? Why arent THEY held accountable for security at their event?


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## wyld thang (Nov 16, 2005)

The only more effective "plan" is for the innocent BYSTANDERS to have the good sense and feet to quickly assess the situation and quickly and "orderly" leave the situation area, without panic, and be helpful to others. Which it sounds like it went as good as it could have, and the police etc are to be commended.

There is no "plan" to moving 100,000 panicky, lazy, whining, panicky, stupid, panicky people, all you can do is hope you contain the stampede instinct to avoid trampling. The Canadians are to be commended for GETTING THEMSELVES out of the situation without too much casualties.

(ps, I'm not saying Canadians are lazy and stupid tho


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## mightybooboo (Feb 10, 2004)

Well they better get a PLAN.Me thinks the exits from event to transportation LINED with troopers should be mandatory, to IMMEDIATELY grab and remove FAST the 100 or so bent on starting havoc, and others more less MOVING the herd along much like a cattle drive which really isnt far from what it is. 

Control the FLOW of fans from the event to a manageable amt at a time,dont allow a rush to the streets,much like freeway on-ramp controls. Clear the streets of the mulling crowds BEFORE they are released,this starts IMMEDIATELY when the event starts.

Take a kick or toss something at a window,a *quick* pepper spray,pushed into the arms of the 'Rovers' and hustled right out of the herd.Remove em FAST down a side exit and get em out of sight of those who saw it happen,move the clueless herd along.

Let em stop,congregate and run wild WILL happen,weve seen it,THATS not going to work,I know that much.

NO ALCOHOL PERIOD at these events,Bummer Mr Sports team Owner.

Who gets to pay for it? The FANS and the TEAM.

There ARE ways to handle this,just somewhere the ball has been completely dropped on planning and implementation.This is NOT a hopeless,unmanageable situation,no,thats ridiculous to say it cant be controlled. 

Another good point tho.....protecting yourself in a crowd like that,besides the obvious of not going.

There is a lot more to this than 'a riot' at a sporting event,many layers as we peel back the onion that can be addressed for Survival forum.


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## wyld thang (Nov 16, 2005)

naturelover said:


> LOL, yeah. That was the first thing I thought when I saw that picture, I'm sure many other people thought the same thing. That one picture has now gone viral all over the net.
> 
> .


it's a wonderful pic and I hope it wins some award 

again, your folks are to be commended for how it ended up!


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## cast iron (Oct 4, 2004)

What a bunch of animals. Maybe some of them will learn some hard life lessons as a result of their behavior.

http://publicshamingeternus.wordpress.com/


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## wyld thang (Nov 16, 2005)

Wayne02 said:


> What a bunch of animals. Maybe some of them will learn some hard life lessons as a result of their behavior.
> 
> http://publicshamingeternus.wordpress.com/


awesome site! ha!!!! kinda reminds me of the arrest records printed in the town newspaper


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## Paumon (Jul 12, 2007)

wyld thang said:


> it's a wonderful pic and I hope it wins some award
> 
> again, your folks are to be commended for how it ended up!


That young couple came forward and did an interview with CBC to explain the picture. There were also some videos shown of their situation during that moment. They seemed like a very nice couple and were both quite embarrassed about having their picture spread around the world. She is Canadian and he is her boyfriend from Australia, they are both in their mid 20's. 

They were not rioting, they got caught up and trapped in the crowds of rioters when they came out of a restaurant with their other friends and attempted to leave the area. She was hurt and became hysterical and overwhelmed when she got knocked to the ground and trampled on when a group of rioters were being herded together by police with shields. In that picture her boyfriend was on the ground next to her protecting and comforting her and trying to calm her out of her panic to encourage her to get up off the ground. He was hugging her and kissing her all over her face to calm her down. So ... they certainly were not making love as it looked like in the picture but it still demonstrates the love and compassion and his empathy that he was feeling for her pain and confusion. That young man sounds like a keeper to me and it was clear from the interview that he is a responsible and caring man who loves her very much, I hope she marries him.

The police have received over 2,000 tips to help identify rioters. As of last night several parents have recognized their teens from photos and videos and have turned in their teens to the police, including the parents of the young man shown lighting the police cruiser on fire. :grin: Also, more and more good samaritans are being identified and recognized for their good efforts to help during the rioting.

If any good came from this riot, it was to show how the true community spirit of Vancouverites arose to the moment to show their love and willingness to volunteer for the city after the riot, kind of like the phoenix of hope rising out of the ashes of grief and anger.


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## Laura Zone 5 (Jan 13, 2010)

Wayne02 said:


> What a bunch of animals. Maybe some of them will learn some hard life lessons as a result of their behavior.
> 
> http://publicshamingeternus.wordpress.com/



THAT is awesome.
Should also serve as a QUICK reminder about putting your face and personal information on FB or any other place on the net.
OR
It should keep you in 'check', knowing that "facial" recognition is not just on NCIS....it's real.

I personally do not think the Vancouver riots are in ANY way a reflection of TRUE hockey fans, or Canadians in general.
It's just 'stupid humans'........and the world is full of them!!


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## seedspreader (Oct 18, 2004)

Wayne02 said:


> What a bunch of animals. Maybe some of them will learn some hard life lessons as a result of their behavior.
> 
> http://publicshamingeternus.wordpress.com/


That site actually reinforces what I was saying about the mob mentality. Most of those kids/young people look to be everyday folks.

Beware of people in crowds because they believe they are anonymous (which is a bit harder these days it looks like).


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## AngieM2 (May 10, 2002)

Paumon - thanks for more information. Those two sound special, and he does sound like MAN, and not a wimp. Trying to protect and encourage her.

Good to hear that even parents are making their teens responsible for their actions.

Thank you for the update. Sounds as if a good overall city upthere.


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## Harry Chickpea (Dec 19, 2008)

Paumon and Angie, I agree. If there were a few thousand of them, that might be a riot stopper I would like to see.


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## wyld thang (Nov 16, 2005)

Paumon said:


> That young couple came forward and did an interview with CBC to explain the picture. There were also some videos shown of their situation during that moment. They seemed like a very nice couple and were both quite embarrassed about having their picture spread around the world. She is Canadian and he is her boyfriend from Australia, they are both in their mid 20's.
> 
> They were not rioting, they got caught up and trapped in the crowds of rioters when they came out of a restaurant with their other friends and attempted to leave the area. She was hurt and became hysterical and overwhelmed when she got knocked to the ground and trampled on when a group of rioters were being herded together by police with shields. In that picture her boyfriend was on the ground next to her protecting and comforting her and trying to calm her out of her panic to encourage her to get up off the ground. He was hugging her and kissing her all over her face to calm her down. So ... they certainly were not making love as it looked like in the picture but it still demonstrates the love and compassion and his empathy that he was feeling for her pain and confusion. That young man sounds like a keeper to me and it was clear from the interview that he is a responsible and caring man who loves her very much, I hope she marries him.
> 
> ...


THank you so much Paumon, the LOVE is obvious in that pic!!! my idea of making love is very broad and covers many things  It's a beautiful picture.


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## SquashNut (Sep 25, 2005)

naturelover said:


> I hope so too Angie. I hope the whole truth will come out. I've been reading around on the net and people everywhere who don't know all of what happened are saying horrible things about Canada and Canadian people because of last night's riot. It's heartbreaking to me that so many people are willing to believe the worst and condemn an entire nation without even knowing all the facts about the incident.
> 
> Anyway, it's over now and the city's being cleaned up. An army of volunteers showed up downtown at the crack of dawn this morning helping municipal workers to get the mess cleaned up and they're still there working at it. :thumb:
> 
> .


Now you know how Americans feel.

I expect more of this as time goes on.


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## Sanza (Sep 8, 2008)

*The police have received over 2,000 tips to help identify rioters. As of last night several parents have recognized their teens from photos and videos and have turned in their teens to the police, including the parents of the young man shown lighting the police cruiser on fire. Also, more and more good samaritans are being identified and recognized for their good efforts to help during the rioting.*

That's the part I like! It's good that the parents realize the damage and destruction their kids did is not a good thing and they need to face responsibility for their actions. 
Maybe more disclipline needs to be brought back in childrens' upbringing so that they have a respect for law and all the rules of our society, and have a fear of the punishment when they break the law.
Personally I think people would think twice about this mob mentality and looting if they knew they could be shot and killed because of their actions...
And the couple? Sorry, but to me it doesn't look like he's trying to get her up and out of there or he wouldn't be laying down also....JMO


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## seedspreader (Oct 18, 2004)

Sanza said:


> *The police have received over 2,000 tips to help identify rioters. As of last night several parents have recognized their teens from photos and videos and have turned in their teens to the police, including the parents of the young man shown lighting the police cruiser on fire. Also, more and more good samaritans are being identified and recognized for their good efforts to help during the rioting.*
> 
> That's the part I like! It's good that the parents realize the damage and destruction their kids did is not a good thing and they need to face responsibility for their actions.
> Maybe more disclipline needs to be brought back in childrens' upbringing so that they have a respect for law and all the rules of our society, and have a fear of the punishment when they break the law.
> ...


I agree, but it goes against the narrative.

First it wasn't Hockey fans, then it was just the anarchist (who WERE probably there too), then it was just a bunch of males...

Truth is it was a mob. Mobs happen with good people in the crowds along with bad people. They happen in England and America and Tunisia and Canada.

If everyone is honest about this and truthful with themselves (and that includes the media) it can go a long way in educating people.

The shaming thing is a good strong deterrent toward curbing future issues too, I think.

Let's everyone of us here, not look to build a narrative, paint this any way other than a survival situation. How do you survive this if you're there? 

Number one is don't be there.


This (not the picture, but the mob mentality) fits in with that news reporter who was raped over in Egypt too. I am sure there were plenty of other petty crimes, misdemeanors and even assaults that haven't been reported or are being quieted.

But what happens if you DO get sucked up into it? How do you handle it?

THAT'S the survival issue here.


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## JuliaAnn (Dec 7, 2004)

Quote "Number one is don't be there"
But what happens if you DO get sucked up into it? How do you handle it?

THAT'S the survival issue here""

This reminded me of something I haven't thought of for years but was very formative in the way I avoid large crowds of people. Many many years ago I went to a concert at a very large venue in a very large city, to see a very famous Canadian rock band. I think I was about 17. We were 'lucky' that we had tickets for the floor, about the 10th row back from the stage. I was having such a great time, but as the show went on, the crowd was pressing forward more and more, and it wasn't long before the people that were initially about 20 or so inches away from me on all sides were pressed up against me, and eachother, in an incredibly tight, hot, tumultuous crush of people. At one point I was lifted clear off the floor by almost a foot because people were crushed in so hard against me and eachother. I couldn't scream, I could barely breath, and the din of the music was making everything worse. I was carried back and forth and began to panic. I couldn't get my arms or legs free to push anyone away from me, but finally, after about 20 minutes or so I felt my feet touch the floor and the pressure on my arms and shoulders give way, and I literally shoved, kicked, and beat my way out of the crowd to the front of the stage, where I was able to go along the fence and get to an aisle where I could escape. I got outside the arena as quick as I could and sat in the bed of the pickup waiting for my friends to come when the show was over. One thing that struck me was that the crush of people around me didn't seem to mind, they were actually enjoying it! 

TO THIS DAY, I can't bear the thought of being caught up in a large crowd of people, can't stand the thought of going to any event where there are thousands of people in a confined area with only limited entrances/exits. I'll still go to events, but it is usually some place I can find a fairly quick and open way out, such as outdoor sports events.


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## seedspreader (Oct 18, 2004)

JuliaAnn,

That feeling in the crowd sounds like it would have given you a RUSH...

(Am I Right?)


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## JuliaAnn (Dec 7, 2004)

seedspreader said:


> JuliaAnn,
> 
> That feeling in the crowd sounds like it would have given you a RUSH...
> 
> (Am I Right?)




Yeah.... Boy, I miss those shows....


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## naturelover (Jun 6, 2006)

seedspreader said:


> I agree, but it goes against the narrative.
> 
> First it wasn't Hockey fans, then it was just the anarchist (who WERE probably there too), then it was just a bunch of males...
> 
> ...


It's a tough question, isn't it? Obviously the first conclusion would be just don't be there, but what if it comes to you unexpectedly? Like those gate crashing anarchists with their mob mentality came unexpectedly to our city's party and infected normally good people with their collective group mind mob mentality - it can happen anywhere. Mob mentality is a social mental infection that strikes swiftly. Social people can't completely isolate themselves from all the fun things to do with other people and that collective mob mentality can come to you and happen anywhere, not only in places where there are large crowds of thousands of people. 

I remember a BBQ & barn dance where there was only about 200 people, they all knew each other, they were mostly all neighbours and friends from a small rural town community and everyone was having a great time. People were drinking and eating and dancing and having a wonderful time until a couple of guys got into an argument over the best way to stack a pyramid of empty beer cans - of all things to argue over. The argument developed into one of them deliberately knocking down the pyramid and yelling harsh words and from there to fisticuffs between the two and that developed into their respective friends getting involved. Within a matter of only moments all hell had broken loose with tables getting over turned and more and more people getting involved in the fight and people hitting each other with chairs and throwing food and drinks at each other. It was like they had all lost their minds, their sense of reason and practicality. A mental infection. Just like a Hollywood style western saloon fight except the damages and the blood and the injuries were real, they weren't fake and there were no stunt men. 

A mindless mob riot is just like a mindless bar fight and it doesn't always have to happen because people are drinking and it doesn't always have to only happen because of sports games festivities involving thousands of people in the streets. 

Mob mentality is an uninvited gate crasher that infects the collective group mind and can flare up for innumerable reasons in any place at any time.

As to your question - what happens if you DO get sucked up into it? How do you handle it? - I don't know. :shrug: I guess it depends on EACH situation, where it is, how many people get sucked up into it, the age and emotional condition of the people involved, if it's out in the city streets during a parade or on your farm at your BBQ and barn dance or even at your daughter's wedding reception. Each mob mentality and riot situation has to be handled differently.

.


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## glwalker (Apr 19, 2005)

I looked at the "shaming" website and was surprised that so many of the rioters were college students. You normally expect this kind of behavior to come from people who don't have much of a future in life. As for the mob mentality, there seems to be more of it, and especially over absurd things. It helps to remember that people are behaving exactly as the Bible predicts that they would during the last days.


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## Paumon (Jul 12, 2007)

glwalker said:


> I looked at the "shaming" website and was surprised that so many of the rioters were college students. You normally expect this kind of behavior to come from people who don't have much of a future in life. ......


Maybe that _might_ mean something if it was any other country, however in Canada I don't think it counts much. The majority of students in Canada go on to college for at least a couple of years whether or not they go on to university after high school graduation. On a per capita basis Canada has the highest rate of college completion among its peer countries, ranking #1 out of its 17 peer countries. All competitor countries (except Belgium, Finland, and Japan) have college completion rates that are more than 10 percentage points lower than Canada&#8217;s. So based on that I don't really think that a person's level of education (or lack of it) determines their susceptibility to mob mentality.


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## Common Tator (Feb 19, 2008)

I'm glad you are safe Naturelover!


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## SquashNut (Sep 25, 2005)

Our colleges and univirsitys are being staffed with teachers and other staff that are corrupting our kids.


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## seedspreader (Oct 18, 2004)

SquashNut said:


> Our colleges and univirsitys are being staffed with teachers and other staff that are corrupting our kids.


If a college aged young man and woman are corrupted by their teachers and staff they don't have much character anyways.

Just my opinion.


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## naturelover (Jun 6, 2006)

SquashNut said:


> Our colleges and univirsitys are being staffed with teachers and other staff that are corrupting our kids.





seedspreader said:


> If a college aged young man and woman are corrupted by their teachers and staff they don't have much character anyways.
> 
> Just my opinion.


Not saying yay or nay, just hoping that you can elaborate more on that statement. Are you saying that college and university teachers and staff are teaching corruption, anarchy and sedition to the students? Could you please define corruption as you understand it? Are you saying that is happening in all educational institutions all over the world, or only in your own country?

.


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## mightybooboo (Feb 10, 2004)

NL,I think its some people have too much time on their hands and too little responsibility.When its handed to you you just tend to not appreciate it,so lets destroy,doesnt cost us anything and someone will just hand us more,we deserve it.


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## Sanza (Sep 8, 2008)

I don't think it has as much to do with them being college students as it does with their actual young age and being brought up thinking that they could do no wrong and would never be punished for any of their actions. 
People in their 20s grew up going to schools with no discipline, homes with no discipline because parents were told "kids shouldn't be afraid of authority figures" (I think that quote was from a tv Dr. but not 100% sure)
Now we reap what we sowed....a generation of people with no morals, integrity or common sense and no concept of wrong from right.


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## mightybooboo (Feb 10, 2004)

Sanza said:


> Now we reap what we sowed....a generation of people with no morals, integrity or common sense and no concept of wrong from right.


Thats nothing new though.

Idle hands,devils playground.We see that in the middle east where they have 60% unemployment,no wonder they have time for destruction,what else are they to do?


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## Sanza (Sep 8, 2008)

Forgot to add:
If I ever found myself in a mob situation I would try to get to the edge as quick as possible so I could get out of there. 
I can compare getting caught in a people mob with being swarmed by a herd of grain fed heifers that see you carrying a pail they think has oats in it.....lol. Try to stay calm and try to come up with a way to distract them so you can escape


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## Paumon (Jul 12, 2007)

I'm posting this for the benefit of those people who expressed doubts about the veracity and intent of the young couple on the ground during the riot. The article has the video and photos that shows the event leading up to them being knocked to the ground and what happened to them afterwards.

http://www.smh.com.au/technology/te...ot-kiss-story-20110624-1gi4f.html?from=smh_sb


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## Laura Zone 5 (Jan 13, 2010)

I think EVERY Canadian who is a TRUE hockey fan, should flood the NHL, Gary Bettman in particular, and tell them that the comedian at the Awards show in Vegas WAS NOT FUNNY.

His poor jokes about Edmonton, and the Islanders, then the jab after jab at Vancouver about the riots.
He was NOT funny, he was an idiot. And it was his second year doing the awards show.

We hit the mute button every time his face came on the tv.
Sickening.


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## margoC (Jul 26, 2007)

Sanza said:


> I don't think it has as much to do with them being college students as it does with their actual young age and being brought up thinking that they could do no wrong and would never be punished for any of their actions.
> People in their 20s grew up going to schools with no discipline, homes with no discipline because parents were told "kids shouldn't be afraid of authority figures" (I think that quote was from a tv Dr. but not 100% sure)
> Now we reap what we sowed....a generation of people with no morals, integrity or common sense and no concept of wrong from right.


I seem to remember some professors of NC state (I think, it was a school in NC) was encouraging students to riot a year or so ago. THere was another professor in a differant state, not sure which one, that gave extra credit for "demonstrating". The "demonstrations" were not peaceful and a lot of damage was done. 

So yes, I agree that college is corrupting our youth. You really don't have to look to far to see it.


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## Txsteader (Aug 22, 2005)

I posted this in GC, that shows the instant it started and how quickly it turned ugly:

Beginning of the Vancouver Riots


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## mightybooboo (Feb 10, 2004)

Txsteader said:


> I posted this in GC, that shows the instant it started and how quickly it turned ugly:
> 
> Beginning of the Vancouver Riots


LOL,imagine that????


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