# Papillon owners?



## Feral Nature (Feb 21, 2007)

Hello, I am considering a Papillon and would love to hear from any owners. My grown daughter has a 4 month old pup and I am quite taken by him, also I am impressed by all I read about their intelligence. I have put four very large dogs through basic obedience training in the distant past so do have a pretty good handle on training. I am planning though on using clicker training, which would be new for me, but I am confident the dog and I will be able to grasp it.
The little dog would be a house dog and would be "my" dog and go every where with me, yes I would have a stupid dog purse. We have no children at home anymore so it is just me and my husband and he works. We have 3 great big dogs outside but I need an inside watchdog to alert me also. Too many times I jump out of my skin because someone pounds on my door and I was not aware that the big dogs barked at all. Example, Friday I heard pounding on my door, nearly had a heart attack when I peaked out the window and say the deputy sheriff out there. It was about a nearby theft and he wanted to know if I had seen or heard anything in my normally crime free rural area.. The deputy told me to get a yippy yappy dog for the house. 
Also, I am looking for an ESA (Emotional Support Animal) or even with further training, a Service Dog. I have an invisible disability and I qualify. I am am eligible to do most of the training, if not all, myself. 
I have been looking for a Papillon for awhile that will meet my needs. The right one will come along I am sure. But in the meantime, I would love to hear any and all stories, good and bad. I want to make the right choice as of sex and age. 
Also, I believe "Reauxman" has a Pap. I did a search and found a couple of threads where he discussed his dog. How has that worked out?

Thanks yall.


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## Maura (Jun 6, 2004)

I used to do rescue for papillons. They are really nice dogs, intelligent, don't run off, good natured. BUT, do not get one from a pet store. Puppy mill papillons are known for having "owner possession", a problem that is probably neurological in nature and doesn't show itself until after puberty. Start making contacts to find a well bred dog or puppy. If you get one from rescue, try to find out where it came from because so many of them are from puppy mills and I'd hate to see you get a dog with this type of problem.


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## Feral Nature (Feb 21, 2007)

Thanks Maura 

I have been looking for awhile on Craigslist and am not finding much. I did find an older dog that seemed great but I did not get a response back. So many of the dogs being advertised as paps are crosses or flat out mutts. Should I insist on AKC to get a quality dog? And how can I do that on a budget?


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## asti (May 18, 2010)

Does it have to be a Pappy?
I have chinese cresteds which is a wee bit bigger than a Pap, but have hair instead of fur so are hypoallergenic, these guys are great comfort givers and are active as well, so agility would be a gas!
I am moving to Belton (TX) shortly and have extras, LOL

These are AKC papered and daddy is a champion, but this litter only turned out 2 "show quality" pups the rest aren't quite right for the standard; woolly coat on the puff, too tall on the HHL AND I didn't get their ears to stand upright 
so I'm in the crapper with the breeder of the dam who we co-own together as she was supposed to take 2 pups back.... but they are all mine now :shocked:

awesome little characters!

PS for info sake: 3 coat varieties, HL = hair-less, HHL = hairy hair-less and puff with has length to it anywhere from a cotton-ball looking woolly thing to a maltese smooth-silky to the ground type.


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## Feral Nature (Feb 21, 2007)

asti, I have always LOVED Chinese Crested but heard they were difficult to housebreak. I need something intelligent, so how do they take to training?


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## Traderdell (Nov 22, 2005)

Here is the home page for the Papillon Club of America as well as their rescue page. A wealth of information and a good place to start. 

http://www.papillonclub.org/ 

http://www.papillonclub.org/index.p...iew=category&id=104:papillon-rescue&Itemid=77

Be Well,
Gregg


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## asti (May 18, 2010)

These guys are house broke, so its handled already!

During the puppy stage they were in an "up-pen" which is 36 x 36 square with a grated floor, papered plastic pans underneath. Transition to going outside went fairly well, no more so than any other dog breed I have had. 

There are tons of CC's that need to wear belly-bans or diapers or have a potty pen in the house and I can't imagine why its allowed.
The mom, Rosie goes outside three times a day (24hrs.) by her own choice - they will ask to go out if they need to do so.

They are very smart! several have taught themselves tricks on their own to get the cutest goof-ball treat, lol


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## Feral Nature (Feb 21, 2007)

Traderdell said:


> Here is the home page for the Papillon Club of America as well as their rescue page. A wealth of information and a good place to start.
> 
> http://www.papillonclub.org/
> 
> ...


Thanks Greg, I have looked at almost every Papillon website there is. I just can't pay $900. for a dog. I don't want a dog from a puppy mill that can only run in circles and certainly don't want to support them in any way. I need something in between.


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## lasergrl (Nov 24, 2007)

I have a pap. my brother in law has a pap, and friend at work has my paps son from before I got him (he is neutered now!). I also work at a vet so see planty. They are nice dogs, but need to be raised like a large dog or they can be nippy. Make them walk, no carrying. The intellegence is overblown IMO. I like them and they are cuddley but they arent smarter then many other toy breeds. poodles and terriers are just as smart.


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## Feral Nature (Feb 21, 2007)

Thanks laser girl, everything mentions the paps high IQ so I was going by what I read. They are listed in the top 10 as far as intelligence. Thanks for your take on it.

asti, I sent you an email.


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## Maura (Jun 6, 2004)

AKC papers mean nothing. Puppy mill puppies come with AKC papers. What you want to see, if you are a novice, is a pedigree with champions in the bloodline. The sire should be a champion, and grandparents on the dams side if she is not. It's not that the show ring is the only place to get a good dog, but people who are taking the time and trouble to show their dogs are less likely to have problems in their pups (not true for all breeds). Papillons have small litters, so they are going to be more expensive. The AKC club has a rescue contact on the web page, I think they charge $300, plus maybe a fee for the home visit.

The problem I had with them, owner possession, will likely be obvious, if you know what it is, which most people don't. Since most people who foster dogs have other dogs in the house, they will report that the dog in question does not get along with other dogs, so needs to be an only dog. You don't want that. A properly bred pap should be dog friendly, they are spaniels. And look for things like a double coat, paps should have a single coat; front feet pointed in, elbow problems.


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## LoneStrChic23 (Jul 30, 2010)

Feral Nature said:


> asti, I have always LOVED Chinese Crested but heard they were difficult to housebreak. I need something intelligent, so how do they take to training?


I am a dog person through & through, though I tend to gravitate towards the gentle giants (have had Danes my entire life & always will) but I had an "itch" for a lil dog and got a powderpuff chinese crested (I also have a true hairless male). She is very smart, potty trained totally by 12 weeks and is a handy lil farm dog in a prissy, pretty package  She's even been known to be a better mouser than my barn cat. Helps catch the occasional escapy rabbit,will sniff out chicken eggs at my kids adopted grandparents house, lets the kids lug her around & dress her up. She's content with whatever I want, be it just sitting in my lap for hours while I read, or following me around while I do chores. I do totally adore this lil' dog and that in itself is a bit shocking since before her my smallest dog was my hubby's 80lb Weimaraner.

My girl is not the typical whiney, overly clingy small dog, but then again I didn't raise her that way either. She received the same training as my big dogs...proper crate training from day one (solves a lot of potty training mishaps if people do this, especially with lil dogs) leash manners, no jumping up on people uninvited, no begging, no uncalled for yapping/barking (though barking for a reason is rewarded) and even at her tiny puppy weight of 2 lbs, she walked almost everywhere and I didn't let her be toted about like a handbag.She's a great watch dog and will come and get me when somethings up, though she's rarely a barker. I like papillions, my nana had one when I was a child that was very similar in temperament as my crested girl is. Was a lot of fun for us kids because he picked up tricks quickly and was always ready to play with us. Only draw back or complaint my nana ever had was that up until his death he was not 100% potty trained. 

In your search, where & who your dog comes from matters. I adore Danes and in general they are an amazing breed to own. But there are exceptions. My current Dane is a "foster failure" Came from a rotten POS breeder here in Texas who knowingly breeds dogs with health/temperament issues. My boy was set to be euthanized when I took him in last year. He has epilepsy, Wobblers disease,moderate hip dysplasia, severe small prey drive/aggression and though he looks the total Dane package and even has AKC papers, he's as far from a true Great Dane as I can imagine.  He's a mess, a hassle to deal with at times, but he's my problem child and I love him regardless (oh and this is even after he broke 2 of my fingers and smashed me into the side of a truck! Haha)

Whatever breed you decide on, try to meet the parents in person, ask for health clearance testing on the parents (my girl came from a Champion sire, & both parents tested by CERF, OFA for elbows, thyroid and cardio and surprisingly, I didn't pay an outrageous amount for her, I actually paid less than I see some back yard breeders charging for inferior dogs).

The heartbreak of dealing in pure bred dogs is when you get that one with all the health issues common in the breed and you have to pay for it, and watch the heartbreak...I'm doing it with my current Dane and on his bad days (severe seizures, disorientation and trouble moving around) I just want to cry. 

Please do your homework, join some breed specific message boards/groups. Find out about health issues common in your breed (if I'm not mistaken patella luxation & elbow dysplasia are common in pappys) and find out what testing is done in breeding stock to minimize your chances of dealing with this down the road. And always keep in mind temperament. There are duds in all breeds, the hardest thing for me to deal with is poor temperament. Expensive puppies don't mean the breeder is a good one, nor does a cheap puppy mean its a good deal. Also, look into breed specific rescues who deal in pure breds. You could talk to them, volunteer and maybe even foster some needy dog. That way you deal one on one with your chosen breed, but only have a temporary commitment unlike the lifelong one you'll have adopting a puppy.

Good Luck!!

Best Wishes,
Crystal
http://noodlevilleadventures.blogspot.com


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## kbshorts (Dec 6, 2005)

We have two Paps, great dogs. I have owned quite a few dogs over the years and always favored spaniels. These little guys have won me over, smart and very eager to please. Ours are very sensitive little dogs and your tone of voice is all that is necessary for correction. They are high energy and we give them lots of outside play, sometimes yippy when they hear something. Our male is bonded with Shelia and the female is everyone's dog although a bit timid at first. We have never had any biting or other aggression, they pretty much ignore the poultry and wash the cat whenever she will allow it. Good advice to select a breeder carefully, ours were raised in the breeder's home. Ours are a bit larger than they should be and although both are registered, neither are perfect per the breed standard. No worries though, we are not breeding and these guys are perfect pets. Go ahead and get a Pap,what the heck, get a couple! Good luck.

Keith


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## tailwagging (Jan 6, 2005)

Have you looked into long coat chihuahua?


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## Feral Nature (Feb 21, 2007)

Thank you for all the good advice about good and bad breeders. I raise ADGA and MDGA dairy goats and have for years and what you have said about the AKC is no different in what we ethical goat breeders deal with every day. In my past life in H-town, I have Irish Wolfhounds, a Great Dane and German Shepherds. Here on the farm, Great Pyernees and Aussies. I have occasionally kept my college-age daughter's Chihuahua and Pom. So I have been around different types of dogs in my too many years. I am definitely considering a Chihuahua but my daughter who has the Chihuahua recently lost her Pomeranian and now has a 6 month old Papillon and we are both in love with him. Don't worry, he will be neutered as he is just her pet and is a mismark and has some structural faults. Her little girl chihuahua still has housebreaking issues and i don't know if it is the breed as Chis are such housedogs in spirit. So that's why thinking of a pap instead, although I like the smallness of a Chihuahua.


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## Feral Nature (Feb 21, 2007)

btw that is a beautiful chihuahua in the pic!


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## tailwagging (Jan 6, 2005)

Thank you.
many small dogs have housebreaking issues



Skippy is available to a pet home. I am not trying to advertise him by posting. it is just he is the chihuahua closest to a pap that I have a pic of.


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## Feral Nature (Feb 21, 2007)

I would totally love to have that dog. I thought he was yours. Too bad he is so far away.


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## tailwagging (Jan 6, 2005)

he is mine. =)

just saying I wasn't trying to push him on you.


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## GoldenWood Farm (May 31, 2003)

I don't post much but I am smitten with the breed. My fellow Riot is coming up on 12yrs old this November and we have had the best years together. Honestly the reason why my mom got me him (I was 11 when we got him) was because she LOVES German Shepherds and from her reading about Paps they remind her the most of German Shepherds. He is not a doggy dog and would rather hang with me than anyone else.

I have found them to be very loyal to their owner (with my boy at least) and they are snuggle bugs. Riot is the most patient dog, when I was younger I could do what ever I wanted with him and he handled it with no problem. They are very intelligent, loving, and loyal. People always know where I have gone by what direction my dog is pointing . 

The only down side is that being so small and around the goats you have to watch out because the goats could kill the small dog very easy but that could be said for any small dog. Also their long coat can be a PAIN to keep free of mats. I finally started just taking and getting him shaved because both of us where happier.

I will miss my boy.....these past few months I can tell his age is catching up with him and I have to make a vet app. to see how he is doing (I believe he has heart problems). I can tell you this, these little dogs will worm their way into your heart and you will not have a more loyal or loving companion. They might be a small dog but they will leave a big impression on your heart and in your life. 

Here are some photos of Riot (he is probably 8 or so in these photos and hasn't been shaved)

















Justine


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## Maura (Jun 6, 2004)

A well bred chi should be very easy to housebreak. That is why they are sometimes impossible to housebreak. They mature very fast, giving you a small window of opportunity for housebreaking. Unlike a big dog, you can't just clean up accidents and expect them to learn eventually. If you don't want them using carpeting as a bathroom, they can never be on carpeting/tile/wood floors until they've done their business outside, which means picking up out of the crate first thing in the morning and carrying to the yard. Treat and praise when they go. Take them outside every couple of hours at first. Constant vigilance for a few weeks (even days) and they know.


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## tailwagging (Jan 6, 2005)

Toy dogs are harder to housebreak no matter the breeding.


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## asti (May 18, 2010)

I've heard that before about housebreaking and "small/toy" dogs - but I am curious about the reasons why... my chinese cresteds house-broke easily, or just as easy as a 'big dog' - course I do go outside with them and make sure they potty, rain, sleet, snow or peaceful sunny afternoon.


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## tailwagging (Jan 6, 2005)

dogs don't want to mess were they eat or sleep (their den) but a small dog can sleep in one corner and see the other as fair game for a rest room. larger dog see larger space as den. you where very lucky with your CC. puff or hairless?


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## asti (May 18, 2010)

tailwagging said:


> dogs don't want to mess were they eat or sleep (their den) but a small dog can sleep in one corner and see the other as fair game for a rest room. larger dog see larger space as den. you where very lucky with your CC. puff or hairless?


I've got 6 total, and some of each variety, puff, hairy-hairless and hairless
I think consistency plays the biggest part of training...


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## tailwagging (Jan 6, 2005)

asti said:


> I've got 6 total, and some of each variety, puff, hairy-hairless and hairless
> I think consistency plays the biggest part of training...


yes I agree! we use to breed CCs.


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