# Cathy Zahm training cart



## Looking4ewes (Apr 30, 2006)

Has anyone had any experience with the carts or why they may be of an advantage over other 2-wheeled carts?

Many thanks,


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## goodhors (Sep 6, 2011)

Got a link to see the cart? She is a darn good trainer of Draft horses.


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## jennigrey (Jan 27, 2005)

I have seen a Cathy Zahm cart in person. While well-made, they strike me as being essentially a Pioneer forecart but without the adaptability and huge range of optional features of a Pioneer. They both have a low center of gravity (so as to be highly resistant to tipping over), are very stoutly built, are easy to get in and out of, have durable automotive wheels, have brakes, have protection against kicking, have mesh floor, have bench seat, have rein rail, fenders...

The Pioneer has leaf springs under their bench seat, which can be nice. Options include implement seat instead of bench seat, sun shade, cup holder, toolbox, rear cargo tray, tow hitch, convertible to team... I can't even remember what all they offer. The brakes, rein rail, dash, fenders, etc. are all options on the Pioneer so you only pay for what you want.

The Cathy Zahm cart comes in one size that is geared toward drafts. The Pioneer is available in three sizes - draft, haflinger and pony.

The Cathy Zahm and the Pioneer are the BEST training and work carts you can buy. The strongest and most durable. They are not show carts and they are not light. But for the purpose they serve, they are fantastic. I guess if I had to choose between the Cathy Zahm and the Pioneer, it would depend on my specific needs and the cost of each cart. If I thought I might want to use it with a team, the Pioneer is the only option. 

Oh, I just remembered that White Horse makes a forecart comparable to Pioneer. I&J also. All good forecarts. All good training carts. I don't know if White Horse or I&J offer all three sizes like Pioneer does, or if they offer the same range of accessories and options.


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## jennigrey (Jan 27, 2005)

Best picture of the Cathy Zahm I could find. It's the one in the middle, with the auto tires.


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## Looking4ewes (Apr 30, 2006)

Thanks, JG. Your description is better than what is found on the Shipshewana site. There is one for sale very close to me and I am strongly considering it as a pleasure/road cart. I have a light weight cart, and it is bouncy, bouncy, bouncy. Maybe this one rides better. I'd eventually like to move up to a four-wheeled cart, and the selection of different buggies seems endless! I have no need for a forecart at this time.

Many thanks,


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## jennigrey (Jan 27, 2005)

What kind of horse are you hooking?

I think the Cathy Zahm cart is lighter-weight than the Pioneer... not really intended to drag heavy equipment behind it... but still more robust than any pleasure cart. Certainly built to take abuse.


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## Looking4ewes (Apr 30, 2006)

I drive a Haflinger. I spoke to the Shipshewana rep. The cart is made in different sizes.


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## jennigrey (Jan 27, 2005)

Good to know! 

Does your current cart bounce up and down or does it jerk side-to-side?

If the bounce in your current cart comes from shaft bounce, then I don't think switching to another cart will necessarily address that. It could be a balance or harness issue. The shafts might need to "float" more within the carrier loops to allow the horse to bounce up and down at the trot without telegraphing every step through the shafts into the cart.

If the bounce in your cart comes from suspension, then I think you will see a smoother ride in the Cathy Zahm.


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## goodhors (Sep 6, 2011)

Before purchase, you might want to take your present cart to a carriage repair shop to talk to the folks there. Many times modifications can be made, which fix and remove the problems you have with your vehicle.

We have helped other light horse folks soften the ride by removing a leaf or two, from cart springs. Bench seat fits two or three small people, with their combined weight compressing the spring and "softening" the ride of the cart. Only one person, maybe a lightweight person, on those same springs will get quite a rough ride!

You want to fit the cart to the main user, the person using the vehicle and horse together, the most often. If you give a ride to a 2nd person only once a month or every six months, then those leaves should be reduced to give YOU the best ride cart is capable of doing.

By carts, I am speaking of the typical big wood-wheeled, bench seat type road cart that is not real expensive. Could be a Meadowbrook style, sits a bit lower than the Road Cart models. Light weight on the horse, roll easily. 

I am not talking of the small metal carts with a bench seat, inflated tires of some kind, no back rest. Those little devils ARE a rough ride, have almost no spring system on it. Even those little coiled springs under seat, really don't add to comfort on a drive.

The Cathy Zahm cart looks STURDY, but probably is not going to be really smooth riding unless on pavement. Appears the only suspension/spring to the ride is in air-filled tires, thick seat cushion. For me, that looks more lie a Breaking Cart instead of a pleasure-ride type cart. Built solidly, has brakes to add drag on horse that is not stopping well. Nothing in springs under seat, will take abuse from the horse. 

So as a money saver, go visit a carriage shop with your present cart, see what they can do for you to modify the ride of it. Could save you plenty of money no needing to buy another cart. Usually changes like that, are pretty inexpensive, maybe could be done 'while you wait' so it is all done in one visit.

We do a bit of modifying on our vehicles, to have them better suit our uses and horses. Then we have even MORE fun using them driving!


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## jennigrey (Jan 27, 2005)

I agree with everything goodhors said. The Cathy Zahm is not built for comfort. It is built for safety and strength. A training cart rather than a pleasure cart. If you take it off the road, it will likely be a stiff ride.


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## Looking4ewes (Apr 30, 2006)

Good advice, GH, but my present cart is one of those little metal devils of which you speak. No suspension, steel shafts, bench seat, 24" wheels. It is a custom built job, sturdy metal but a bit heavy on the horses back. When I switched to a driving harness, from a work harness, the shafts were raised a bit, which balanced the cart better, and improved the ride.

I was able to negotiate a favorable price on the Cathy Zahm cart, so I went ahead with the purchase. It has a low venter of gravity, 63" wheel base, wooden shafts, and it balanced well. It fit my Haflinger well. It rode very smooth on the dirt road, with only a little shaft bounce. It is built much sturdier than my smaller metal cart, and I feel much safer in it. I like it quite well.

Being new to driving, and new to horses as well, it is hard to choose from the many cart and buggy options. Seems you have to buy a vehicle first to determine if it is right fit for driver and horse. Fortunately, I don't have much money in the game, so the Cathy Zahm cart is a nice step up for me. That being said, I would not pay the price for a new Cathy Zahm cart. The current price is $2200, which is quite spendy for me. The cart I bought is 5 years old, never used, and i only paid a fraction of that price.


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## jennigrey (Jan 27, 2005)

I hope it serves your needs well! Here's to many safe miles behind your horse! :thumb: It's an expensive habit, that's for sure.


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## jennigrey (Jan 27, 2005)

If your ultimate goal is to get good enough to be able to safely navigate a buggy (it is easier to wreck a 4-wheeled buggy than a two-wheeled cart), then it sounds like this cart is a good interim vehicle. It should have good resale value, while being a stout, safe starter vehicle.


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## Alder (Aug 18, 2014)

If you want to move to a four wheel vehicle eventually, go with a cut-under model. I drive a lovely restored antique jump seat runabout with French scroll springs and spring shafts - beautiful, light, delicate, and a fine example of the carriagemaker's art, but it takes a country mile and a steady horse and hand to turn it around safely. 

The new carriages (both pleasure and competition) often don't even have a reach, a lot of the antique cut-unders do still have a reach. But you still can get those front wheels way under the box to turn, or it gives you a lot more breathing space if a horse spooks backwards. The old box-style wagons and buggies will wheel jam or jack-knife in a New York minute if you get in trouble. (Wheel jammed against box). Then they flip over. If you've never been flipped out of a carriage or sleigh, well...you are not just rolled out, you are "launched" out. Ouch.


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## Looking4ewes (Apr 30, 2006)

What is "reach" in a four wheeled cart? How do you know if a cart/buggy has it or not?


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## goodhors (Sep 6, 2011)

The "reach" is a piece of wood running from front axle to rear axle, which adds stability to the design of a vehicle. It allows shorter turning radius, without needing the vehicle to have the heavier built body needed for a "full fifth wheel" turntable that allows the shortest turning radius and no wheels touching any parts. People wanted light, inexpensive vehicles when they purchased buggies, and using the reach in their design filled that need. The reach keeps the axles in place, despite pull from the horse shafts, kept things from getting "too flexible" in the body going over rough conditions.

American roads were mostly terrible "back in the day" with huge ruts created by other vehicles, muholes, soft sand, along with other local condtions. Few were the wide, flat, good surface roads we see now in the "dirt road" category. The light but strong woods used in wheels, flexible bodies of the "buggy class" vehicles, allowed people to drive those roads without breaking down all the time. Buggies didn't exhaust the horse with unneeded weight in design, since he had to move his loaded (with people or goods) vehicle going to town or home again. Usually had to do both ways in a single day.

Hope this Facebook link works, the photo shows the reach very well.

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10152854079798686&set=pcb.865610966793100&type=1&theater


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