# Bundy Videos



## joseph97297 (Nov 20, 2007)

Okay, so post what links you have to any of the Bundy videos here cause all I can find is one,.... and it doesn't show much. Starts off with a woman on the ground (claims that she was thrown down) and has the guy driving his four-wheeler into the truck, getting tasered and then a little bit of a 'stand-off'.

I'm waiting to see the video of cattle being ran til dead, back hoes digging graves and all that 'outrageous' stuff that is being tossed around.

So....if you have a link, post it up.


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## joseph97297 (Nov 20, 2007)

Nothing yet? Is this in the right forum?

I have read on several sites about running cattle to death, backhoes burying the dead cattle, etc.... yet not one video. I'm beginning to think that this is all hype and fluff..... nothing of substance in regards to these claims......


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## Paumon (Jul 12, 2007)

Uummm - there's a new video in the Current Events topic. 13 minutes of bombast but the guy isn't really saying anything that isn't mostly speculation. :shrug:


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## 7thswan (Nov 18, 2008)

joseph97297 said:


> Nothing yet? Is this in the right forum?
> 
> I have read on several sites about running cattle to death, backhoes burying the dead cattle, etc.... yet not one video. I'm beginning to think that this is all hype and fluff..... nothing of substance in regards to these claims......


I posted a link in politics with I think 57 videos from the family. And I just heard on TV that there are multiple reports of dead/killed cattle. The Gov. is keeping those that can take info. away from the site of the cattle roundup. Fox news is on site,now.


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## haypoint (Oct 4, 2006)

I heard the BLM was pinching baby's cheeks and kicking dirt on the American flag, but the snipers shot the smart phones out of the hands of those videoing the event. 
There is word they may take this dog and pony show on the road. If they can attract a thousand folks to watch their antics on the highway, Bundy could do better if he served popcorn and cotton candy at his next media performance.


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## arabian knight (Dec 19, 2005)

This whole shebang is a horse and pony show and go good with popcorn on the side.


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## barnbilder (Jul 1, 2005)

Sorry, but this topic is just so 'yesterday'. Big topic right now is Kathleen Sebelius is replacing Letterman.


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## Patchouli (Aug 3, 2011)

So no proof as usual eh? Wild speculation and nothing to back it up. Surprise, surprise.... :yawn:


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## barnbilder (Jul 1, 2005)

There was some video on You-tube. It was taken down, because it was feared that it would cause people to have a spontaneous riot and attack an embassy. You know how Hindus love their cows. And, it's been proven before how Youtube videos can cause things to happen at foreign embassies. Anyway, since all the available troops are busy in Nevada, putting the smackdown on a nearly 70 year old man that is clearly a threat to humanity, they wouldn't be able to provide any extra security to any foreign embassies right now, they just took it off. Blocked it actually, it's still there, it's just that the guy at the NSA that is linked into your PC, plugs in another video, whenever you click on it. My NSA operator links me into a video of funny cats when I click on it. The one with the goldfish is really hilarious.


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## copperkid3 (Mar 18, 2005)

joseph97297 said:


> Nothing yet? Is this in the right forum?
> 
> I have read on several sites about running cattle to death, backhoes burying the dead cattle, etc.... yet not one video. I'm beginning to think that this is all hype and fluff..... nothing of substance in regards to these claims......


+ + + + + +
that the so-called 'missing' plane over the Indian Ocean is a hoax, right?

If something had happened to it . . . (like, heaven forbid), it 'may' have (gasp)

possibly crashed, then we'd be able to see proof of it, via debris and bodies, etc. 

Of course we all know that's beyond the realm of possibilities as there are no

videos or cell phone photos . . . therefore it must still be flying or was simply 

transported

thru an interdimensional vortex . . .

Just wanted ya'll to return to some sembance of reality . . . or as much as 

the liberal pysche is able to comprehend.


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## joseph97297 (Nov 20, 2007)

Yep reality.... sure thing hoss......


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## Patchouli (Aug 3, 2011)

copperkid3 said:


> + + + + + +
> that the so-called 'missing' plane over the Indian Ocean is a hoax, right?
> 
> If something had happened to it . . . (like, heaven forbid), it 'may' have (gasp)
> ...


You do know there is a vast difference between a plane lost in the ocean and an incident taking place in Nevada with tons of people and the media all armed with recording devices? If we have no video from the Bundy round up showing any of the outrageous claims at all most rational people would assume the claims were not true.


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## simi-steading (Sep 27, 2012)

Kinda hard to take a video from the road when the round up is happening several hundred acres away and the land between the road and the roundup is closed.. 

Now why would they close the land?

Also, look in the video you say you saw.. You will see dump trucks, and right behind a burm, a backhoe that was brought in by the feds.. 

You explain to me why the feds would bring ina backhoe and dump trucks for a roundup?

Also, explain to me why the feds are not allowing the trucks coming out to be inspected by anyone? 

I bet you believe Obama does not have a college record... because he won't allow us to see it.. so it must not exist..


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## Patchouli (Aug 3, 2011)

Obama has a college record because the colleges he attended confirmed he attended them. Not that it has anything to do with this case.

I can think of quite a few reasons for the backhoe and dump truck. One that you guys mentioned in one of these threads was why didn't Bundy and company just take out the bridge to get in there. They may have thought they would need to rebuild access. Second they will be restoring the land to the habitat it is supposed to be and they will need equipment for that.


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## simi-steading (Sep 27, 2012)

LOL.. yeah right.. .the government restore something.. 

I know what they can start with restoring.. OUR TRUST!


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## JeffreyD (Dec 27, 2006)

Patchouli said:


> Obama has a college record because the colleges he attended confirmed he attended them. Not that it has anything to do with this case.
> 
> I can think of quite a few reasons for the backhoe and dump truck. One that you guys mentioned in one of these threads was why didn't Bundy and company just take out the bridge to get in there. They may have thought they would need to rebuild access. Second they will be restoring the land to the habitat it is supposed to be and they will need equipment for that.


In order for habitat restoration to happen, there has to be environmental impact reports done and seriously, they don't use dump trucks and backhoes for restoration projects much. I've been involved in many of these projects. The time frame for a project is typically years in the making because so many groups claim standings!


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## barnbilder (Jul 1, 2005)

Habitat restoration 101. To save turtles, would work better to chase the BLM with helicopters in the 90 degree heat, instead of cows.
http://rt.com/usa/desert-tortoises-euthanize-nevada-024/


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## 7thswan (Nov 18, 2008)

Patchouli said:


> Obama has a college record because the colleges he attended confirmed he attended them. Not that it has anything to do with this case.
> 
> I can think of quite a few reasons for the backhoe and dump truck. One that you guys mentioned in one of these threads was why didn't Bundy and company just take out the bridge to get in there. They may have thought they would need to rebuild access. Second they will be restoring the land to the habitat it is supposed to be and they will need equipment for that.


OH NO !,,,, tell me more, the only ones I know about say he's a Marxist>>>>>>>


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## barnbilder (Jul 1, 2005)

So to re-cap, if you have been farming in the same place for three generations and you are perceived to negatively impact turtle habitat, because this land is my land this land is your land, he's got to get off. 
But, if you need BLM land that is designated protected turtle habitat to build a golf course on, AND, you happen to be buddies of Harry Reid's and his son is your attorney and if you steal campaign money for him, that is A OK. Perfectly OK for BLM to trade off protected turtle habitat. Dirty Harry made a law making it legal. His Mormon ancestry makes him king of Nevada. Plus, he's duly elected with votes bought with illegal campaign money.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harvey_Whittemore

This liberal logic is so much fun, I can see why they're drawn to it, you don't have to follow logic.


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## barnbilder (Jul 1, 2005)

Maybe the backhoes aren't for burying dead cattle. Maybe they are for building a water hazard on the eighteenth hole.


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## barnbilder (Jul 1, 2005)

Not likely to see much video at this point, because the BLM has conveniently knocked out the cell towers servicing that area.


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## DJ in WA (Jan 28, 2005)

haypoint said:


> I heard the BLM was pinching baby's cheeks and kicking dirt on the American flag, but the snipers shot the smart phones out of the hands of those videoing the event.
> There is word they may take this dog and pony show on the road. If they can attract a thousand folks to watch their antics on the highway, Bundy could do better if he served popcorn and cotton candy at his next media performance.


I realize you are very dependent on government for your survival, and you relish any action taken by a federal agency.

As for me, I welcome any and all anti-government propaganda, as a counterbalance to the pro-government BS we are fed daily by government schools and big government loving media.

Amazing that we expect extreme accuracy in anti-government information, but don't mind when the pro-government forces lie. I can't think of one program that works as claimed. From wars to welfare, it is all a fraud. Unintended consequences, fraud, waste and abuse as far as the eye can see.

Government worshippers cry when their religion is criticized, but they can rest assured that they are winning, as predicted. 

"The natural progress of things is for liberty to yield, and government to gain ground." - Thomas Jefferson to Edward Carrington, Paris, May 27, 1788

How much do those BLM guys make in salary, benefits, and retirement? What is the state of our budget? Have any programs gone away? How much money is printed to cover any shortfalls, and what does that do to cause inflation and drive up our cost of living?

How many of us can afford all this? Funding is unlimited!
[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y75A1hwRLzc&feature=youtu.be[/ame]


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## mmoetc (Oct 9, 2012)

DJ in WA said:


> I realize you are very dependent on government for your survival, and you relish any action taken by a federal agency.
> 
> As for me, I welcome any and all anti-government propaganda, as a counterbalance to the pro-government BS we are fed daily by government schools and big government loving media.
> 
> ...


How much could they have done with the $1M the rancher supposedly owes in back grazing fees and penalties. How much could they have done with the money spent in various courtroom battles? How much could they have done with the money now being spent if the rancher had complied with the law and spent his own money to remove the cattle. Yeah, there's a lot of wasted money but I'd point the finger of blame in a different direction.

Edited to add- one person's frivolous lawsuit is another person's righteous cause.


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## Wanda (Dec 19, 2002)

Is that a ''removal contractor'' that is shown in the video? When you look at the size of the area that will be covered, it is not very much equipment or manpower. These are not half section fenced pastures they are gathering.


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## fishhead (Jul 19, 2006)

I looked at some BLM job postings for range technician. They were in the $12-$16 range so nobody is getting rich.

I'd like to squat on public land and use it for my own financial gain too but that would be stealing.


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## barnbilder (Jul 1, 2005)

I guess you wouldn't want to try to take your government to court because you might waste money. Your money. Meanwhile nobody blinks an eye, our government leaders, drag things out in court, lie under oath, and line their pockets with money that they steal from everyone. Everyone is eager to attack a rancher who is standing up for all of our rights, as Americans. But, when Dirty Harry sells the very same BLM land we're fighting over out there to the Chicoms, using laws he put on the books, and his sons are legaly representing them and lobbying for them, it is just fine, because he falls under that benevolent leader blanket that everyone seems to be blind to. 
The blindness of the liberal mind uses the fallibility of man as a mandate for government, and then puts men in charge of government. Cliven Bundy is a hero, so is Mark Baker, so is Edward Snowden. They are willing to stand up for their beliefs, our freedom, at great personal risk. The original 56 signers of the declaration were probably viewed much the same by those who loved King George. I can be thankful for them, without agreeing with all of their actions. Can't say the same for government agencies practicing tyranny using actions which are, by definition, terrorism. Anyone that can not see what is going on is A. in denial B. ignorant or C. one of those people that gets paid by the government to spread their lies and propaganda on social media. C. sounds most plausible, because history teaches us that those who loved King George were usually paid well to do so.


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## mmoetc (Oct 9, 2012)

barnbilder said:


> I guess you wouldn't want to try to take your government to court because you might waste money. Your money. Meanwhile nobody blinks an eye, our government leaders, drag things out in court, lie under oath, and line their pockets with money that they steal from everyone. Everyone is eager to attack a rancher who is standing up for all of our rights, as Americans. But, when Dirty Harry sells the very same BLM land we're fighting over out there to the Chicoms, using laws he put on the books, and his sons are legaly representing them and lobbying for them, it is just fine, because he falls under that benevolent leader blanket that everyone seems to be blind to.
> The blindness of the liberal mind uses the fallibility of man as a mandate for government, and then puts men in charge of government. Cliven Bundy is a hero, so is Mark Baker, so is Edward Snowden. They are willing to stand up for their beliefs, our freedom, at great personal risk. The original 56 signers of the declaration were probably viewed much the same by those who loved King George. I can be thankful for them, without agreeing with all of their actions. Can't say the same for government agencies practicing tyranny using actions which are, by definition, terrorism. Anyone that can not see what is going on is A. in denial B. ignorant or C. one of those people that gets paid by the government to spread their lies and propaganda on social media. C. sounds most plausible, because history teaches us that those who loved King George were usually paid well to do so.


First, I never said anyone shouldn't have the right to sue the government or anyone else. I think that any proposed laws limiting lawsuits or the ability to recover damages are wrong. 

Second, can you provide any evidence to back up your claims that every government official lied and cheated? You expect me to believe that a process that took some 20 years, involving 8 directors appointed by both sides of the political aisle, and countless other beurocrats and functionaries was so filled with lies and mistruths hasn't somehow been brought to light until now? Please go to the record and point out the false testimony.

Third, what rights had Mr Bundy lost? The right to due process? The right to petition? The right to equal treatment? The right to not pay for goods and services he felt entitled to?

Fourth, if you expect me to defend Harry Reid and his family dealings you're barking up the wrong tree. It's a separate issue from Mr Bundy's and to try to lump them together does a disservice to both.


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## joseph97297 (Nov 20, 2007)

barnbilder said:


> Not likely to see much video at this point, because the BLM has conveniently knocked out the cell towers servicing that area.



Umm.....nope. A phone can still record then upload when in signal. You don't need a phone tower to take video....

also to this statement:

" Kinda hard to take a video from the road when the round up is happening several hundred acres away and the land between the road and the roundup is closed.. "

So if there is no way to hold a phone up to take video, how are people 'seeing' it to 'report' on it? Trust me, my camera has a zoom feature so much better than my eyes at long distance. If they could "see if enough to report it' they could video it.

Two excuse shot down, let's keep going...this is actually fun.


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## JeffreyD (Dec 27, 2006)

joseph97297 said:


> Umm.....nope. A phone can still record then upload when in signal. You don't need a phone tower to take video....
> 
> also to this statement:
> 
> ...


If this developed into another Waco, I suppose that would be fun too! It's always a great feeling when the government stomps on it's citizens, lets rejoice! !


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## arabian knight (Dec 19, 2005)

joseph97297 said:


> Umm.....nope. A phone can still record then upload when in signal. You don't need a phone tower to take video....
> 
> also to this statement:
> 
> ...


 So true I have a large enough memory card in my camera I can take around 1-1/2 hours of HD movie. And it STAYS on that memory card, same thing as the cards in Smart Phones. You sure don't need ANY cell tower to store pictures on any smart phone or iPad or todays cameras.


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## joseph97297 (Nov 20, 2007)

JeffreyD said:


> If this developed into another Waco, I suppose that would be fun too! It's always a great feeling when the government stomps on it's citizens, lets rejoice! !


Sorry if that came across as callous....wasn't meant to be about the situation at hand, just the excuses that will get trotted out as 'reality'.

The situation at hand is serious. If this was some welfare queen abusing the system, not paying her bills and shouting that she deserves this, and she deserves that, would the outrage be there?

Simple solution is for the man to pay his bills, obey the laws and wham....problem solved. Trampling on citizens is not a laughing matter, neither is spouting rumors and falsehoods to incite folks.


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## barnbilder (Jul 1, 2005)

Don't know if anyone is still keeping up with the facts surrounding this story, but I found out something else interesting. Not only did dirty Harry Reid push through legislation making it possible for private interests to obtain BLM lands, not only did one of his sons lobby for passage of these laws and approval of land swaps for private interests, while the other son was the attorney for these private interests, and not only did one of these land deals involving turning over BLM lands to private interest involve one of the senators largest supporters, who is now in jail, BUT, just for the record, I found out that the head of BLM is a former senior advisor of Harry Reid's. All quite convenient, I'm sure all just a mere coincidence. I don't see how anyone in good conscience could send a dime to such a corrupt outfit. I think Nevada should call out their state police and run the BLM out of their state, after all, it was state land merely being managed by the BLM. The BLM is clearly not in any position to manage anything in the best interest of the American people. They are operating above the law and against the constitution, they have been over-run with corruption and are ruled by private interest. Too bad that Bundy fellow was too stubborn to take their bribe money and back down, they could have pulled it off and nobody would have known.


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## barnbilder (Jul 1, 2005)

And in case you haven't heard the feds are pulling out, and they are turning the cattle loose. Don't know if it was armed citizen militia, or Alex Jones becoming the only credible news agency in the US, either way it's sad that it had to come to that.


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## Patchouli (Aug 3, 2011)

barnbilder said:


> Not likely to see much video at this point, because the BLM has conveniently knocked out the cell towers servicing that area.


Seriously?


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## Patchouli (Aug 3, 2011)

barnbilder said:


> And in case you haven't heard the feds are pulling out, and they are turning the cattle loose. Don't know if it was armed citizen militia, or Alex Jones becoming the only credible news agency in the US, either way it's sad that it had to come to that.


They rounded up 500 cattle. They are selling 400 of them to recoup costs and released 100 back. It's possible that 100 cows were someone other than Bundy's.


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## arabian knight (Dec 19, 2005)

barnbilder said:


> Alex Jones becoming the only credible news agency in the US,.


I needed a laugh like that on a Sunday Morning Thank You. Glad I didn't have my mouth full though.


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## barnbilder (Jul 1, 2005)

Patchouli said:


> They rounded up 500 cattle. They are selling 400 of them to recoup costs and released 100 back. It's possible that 100 cows were someone other than Bundy's.


 If they are someone else's why are they releasing them to Bundy?


http://www.8newsnow.com/story/25231...n-i15-causing-traffic-delays-cliven-bundy-blm


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## arabian knight (Dec 19, 2005)

Ah yes some like to believe that this is over, it is not over, when the crazies leave that were making a spectacle of themselves and getting out of hand the feds back down, but don;t think for one minute the feds are going to stop at getting back what is rightfully theirs.


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## barnbilder (Jul 1, 2005)

Here is more, looks like CBS is trying to live up to the high standards of news reporting that Alex Jones has laid down. http://lasvegas.cbslocal.com/2014/04/11/nevada-militia-to-feds-control-our-borders-not-our-ranchers/


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## barnbilder (Jul 1, 2005)

Liberals should listen to Alex Jones, then they wouldn't be so misinformed.
http://www.infowars.com/feds-back-down-from-bundy-siege-after-infowars-expose-of-chinese-land-grab/

http://www.infowars.com/breaking-cliven-bundy-to-meet-with-clark-co-sheriff/

Alex Jones is probably 10 times more credible and subjective than Chris Mathews.


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## Tiempo (May 22, 2008)

barnbilder said:


> Liberals should listen to Alex Jones, then they wouldn't be so misinformed.
> http://www.infowars.com/feds-back-down-from-bundy-siege-after-infowars-expose-of-chinese-land-grab/
> 
> http://www.infowars.com/breaking-cliven-bundy-to-meet-with-clark-co-sheriff/
> ...


Even a bulk of the conservatives here think he's a lunatic.


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## barnbilder (Jul 1, 2005)

Maybe the BLM got a copy of this study from USFW and decided cows weren't so bad.
http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2014/apr/11/death-calif-solar-farms-71-species-bird-found-enti/

Oh, and Alex Jones is a certifiable nut, but it's sad when a certifiable nut is the only one that can dig up the real story behind this debacle, and report it to the American people on a large scale.


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## haypoint (Oct 4, 2006)

barnbilder said:


> Maybe the BLM got a copy of this study from USFW and decided cows weren't so bad.
> http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2014/apr/11/death-calif-solar-farms-71-species-bird-found-enti/
> 
> Oh, and Alex Jones is a certifiable nut, but it's sad when a certifiable nut is the only one that can dig up the real story behind this debacle, and report it to the American people on a large scale.


Is it at all possible that the certifiable nut is a certifiable nut spreading misinformation? Doubt anyone could tell the whole story, backing it up along the way, of what the history of this was over the past 200 years, changes in the laws, if Bundy accepted the buy out that everyone else accepted, how badly the land was managed, what the complete court transcripts say, on both cases and appeals, in a 5 minute news story. 
What I do know is the folks trying to insight violence were unsuccessful and the videos show a bunch of folks acting badly.


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## arabian knight (Dec 19, 2005)

Believing in Jones is like going to Wiki for information, both are not reliable and should not be taken seriously


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## barnbilder (Jul 1, 2005)

Deny and discredit that which brings into question the true nature of progressivism, isn't that basically what you are saying?


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## Tiempo (May 22, 2008)

barnbilder said:


> Deny and discredit that which brings into question the true nature of progressivism, isn't that basically what you are saying?


Not at all, but the source must be as credible as possible.


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## Patchouli (Aug 3, 2011)

barnbilder said:


> Liberals should listen to Alex Jones, then they wouldn't be so misinformed.
> http://www.infowars.com/feds-back-down-from-bundy-siege-after-infowars-expose-of-chinese-land-grab/
> 
> http://www.infowars.com/breaking-cliven-bundy-to-meet-with-clark-co-sheriff/
> ...


The vast majority of Americans whether Liberal, Conservative or Independent all agree Alex Jones is a nutjob.


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## JillyG (Jan 6, 2014)

I might have missed it but i do not see anywhere in this discussion that Bundy was paying the fee right until Clinton took office. The Executive order changing the law was signed by Reagan in 1986, Bundy had no problem paying for 5 years. 
That would prove in a court of law he did not own the land and understood there was a fee.
What changed?


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## ErinP (Aug 23, 2007)

My questions are:

If he's claiming not to recognize BLM's claim to the land (I can't recall Section etc. in the Constitution), why wouldn't he _instead_ pay his grazing fees to the county, or state? I mean, NOT paying just makes him a common thief. He's knows it's not his...
But if he's not merely a common thief, but is willing to pay _just like all the rest of us who lease grass_, why not seek out who he thinks is the proper recipient? 

Better still, if this actually _is_ a constitutional question asking whether or not the fed should be able to own land, why aren't lawyers beating a path to his door, begging to take on this case? This is a name-maker for any lawyer worth his salt! Lawyers _love_ a chance to challenge constitutional issues!
But Bundy is representing himself...


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## barnbilder (Jul 1, 2005)

Funny that a million dollars in unpaid grazing fees, (that he attempted to pay to the county) is a huge deal, but selling public land for 34 million less than it's worth is no problem at all.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/08/31/us-usa-china-reid-solar-idUSBRE87U06D20120831


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## Lisa in WA (Oct 11, 2004)

Here is a great video clip about the Bundy ranch incident in which Sheriff Mack reveals to Fox News his strategy to put women at the front lines because you know, if they gun down the wimmen folk, it will really get things going. I'm always so admiring of a man who volunteers someone else to take a bullet to manipulate public sentiment.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/04/15/richard-mack-_n_5154606.html


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## haypoint (Oct 4, 2006)

"Funny that a million dollars in unpaid grazing fees, (that he attempted to pay to the county"

Sort of like, " I sent my rent money to the Credit Union, but the Landlord still wants to evict me, I just don't get it?"


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## JillyG (Jan 6, 2014)

ErinP said:


> My questions are:
> 
> If he's claiming not to recognize BLM's claim to the land (I can't recall Section etc. in the Constitution), why wouldn't he _instead_ pay his grazing fees to the county, or state? I mean, NOT paying just makes him a common thief. He's knows it's not his...
> But if he's not merely a common thief, but is willing to pay _just like all the rest of us who lease grass_, why not seek out who he thinks is the proper recipient?
> ...


He paid those fees from the time Reagan signed the law until Clinton took office.
He knew where to send the money!
Of course the Federal Government can own land, it owns lots of land.
This is not a new case, Bundy has been in court over this since 1989. What is new is the right trying to entice another Waco over it.


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## haypoint (Oct 4, 2006)

Let's say my ancestors have been dumping trash in a ravine for 200 years. Nobody stopped them. Then the land owner tells them they have to pay $1.00 to dump trash there. After a good long time, the land owner tells me to stop dumping trash there. The Landlord pays everyone that was dumping trash to develop their own trash site. But I not only keep dumping trash there, but I stop paying the $1.00. The land owner takes me to court. I argue that I have a right to dump trash in that ravine because my ancestors did and I want to pay my dump fee to a neighbor that doesn't own the ravine. But the Landlord argues that paying someone else is of secondary concern, he just wants the trash dumping to stop. The Landlord wins the Court Case and the following appeals. I believe the Landlord is being mean and should let me dump trash for free.


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## mmoetc (Oct 9, 2012)

A question for anyone in that area or with more info. Is the land in question now open for public access or is it still closed off and if closed who's enforcing it. I ask because if it's open I'm curious as to why no one has gone looking for and found evidence of the piles of dead cattle and turtles we kept hearing about? In keeping with the title of this thread I'll be awaiting the video evidence.


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## barnbilder (Jul 1, 2005)

The landfill analogy would work if it included the part where the landowner sold the dumping rights to China. But wait, the thugs with rifles and Nazi uniforms in this case are not the landowner. The protesters were every bit as much the landowners.

Maybe a better analogy would be this guy decides to mow the grass around the courthouse, later the county tells him he has to pay to do that, but they will put new spark plugs in his lawnmower. After replacing his own spark plugs for several years he quits paying. Things proceed as normal. The county decides to sell the courthouse yard to China to make a landfill out of. They are afraid the guy might notice the landfill when he comes to cut the grass. They show up at the guys house with 200 armed agents, while a wrecker service impounds his lawnmower.

There are pictures and video out there with dead cattle with bullet holes in them. The government didn't approve those pictures so they are not credible.


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## mmoetc (Oct 9, 2012)

barnbilder said:


> The landfill analogy would work if it included the part where the landowner sold the dumping rights to China. But wait, the thugs with rifles and Nazi uniforms in this case are not the landowner. The protesters were every bit as much the landowners.
> 
> Maybe a better analogy would be this guy decides to mow the grass around the courthouse, later the county tells him he has to pay to do that, but they will put new spark plugs in his lawnmower. After replacing his own spark plugs for several years he quits paying. Things proceed as normal. The county decides to sell the courthouse yard to China to make a landfill out of. They are afraid the guy might notice the landfill when he comes to cut the grass. They show up at the guys house with 200 armed agents, while a wrecker service impounds his lawnmower.
> 
> There are pictures and video out there with dead cattle with bullet holes in them. The government didn't approve those pictures so they are not credible.


Government approval doesn't make them acceptable. Simple things like time stamps and gps coordinates would. Someone standing next to the dead animal with a recent newspaper( think kidnappers proof of life) would. Some picture with an easily recognizable geographic feature in the background would. I'll be waiting.


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## ErinP (Aug 23, 2007)

There is a much simpler analogy:

If I had a lease with the neighbors, quit paying the lease fee, or overstocked what they limited me to, I could expect to lose my lease. *Continuing* to graze anyway means I'm now trespassing and the sherif would impound my livestock.
And people would be absolute _fools_ to think they should show up, armed, in order to prevent him from doing so...
________________________________________________________

Better still, Bundy claims he doesn't acknowledge the US government in this, only the state of Nevada. But Nevada is one of the states that still has a paramount-allegiance clause in their constitution:


> All political power is inherent in the people. *Government is instituted for the protection, security and benefit of the people; and they have the right to alter or reform the same whenever the public good may require it. But the Paramount Allegiance of every citizen is due to the Federal Government in the exercise of all its Constitutional powers as the same have been or may be defined by the Supreme Court of the United States;* and no power exists in the people of this or any other State of the Federal Union to dissolve their connection therewith or perform any act tending to impair, subvert, or resist the Supreme Authority of the government of the United States. *The Constitution of the United States confers full power on the Federal Government to maintain and Perpetuate its existence*, and whensoever any portion of the States, or people thereof attempt to secede from the Federal Union, *or forcibly resist the Execution of its laws, the Federal Government may, by warrant of the Constitution, employ armed force in compelling obedience to its Authority.*


Article 1, Section 2 http://www.leg.state.nv.us/const/nvconst.html

In other words, he's not following _Nevada_ laws, either! (this is why lawyers aren't beating a path to his door, btw)
Bundy is not a hero, martyr or David fighting Goliath... 
This guy is nothing but a common thief taking advantage of a bunch of people who are stupid enough to die for a crook.


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## haypoint (Oct 4, 2006)

"There are pictures and video out there with dead cattle with bullet holes in them" Yup, and I've seen pictures and video of an Alien Autopsy, too. Zombies, too. Seen 'um, yup.


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## grandma12703 (Jan 13, 2011)

I am just gonna throw this out there because it is making me crazy. Ruby Ridge doesn't bother me as a comparison of overstepping but WACO, really? To me that is not remotely the same kind of thing. 

Bundy is hurting no other human being. This is land and cattle we are talking about. I just don't see a comparison here at all.


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## Lisa in WA (Oct 11, 2004)

grandma12703 said:


> I am just gonna throw this out there because it is making me crazy. Ruby Ridge doesn't bother me as a comparison of overstepping but WACO, really? To me that is not remotely the same kind of thing.
> 
> Bundy is hurting no other human being. This is land and cattle we are talking about. I just don't see a comparison here at all.


So I guess you don't have a problem with people who abuse welfare or food stamps? Because Bundy is using public resources that come with a price tag and refusing to pay for those resources. I have to pay to go into a National Park. Every other rancher who grazes their cattle or sheep on public land has to pay...why should Bundy be exempt. Those grazing fees go toward repairing the damage done by cattle which is considerable (ever seen a riparian area after cattle are through with it) and how about fighting wild fires in the west? You wanna chip in and pay his share because a millionaire rancher doesn't want to?


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## haypoint (Oct 4, 2006)

This wasn't Ruby Ridge and surely not Waco.

As a result of anti-government sentiment in a well planned media blitz, the Bundy family got a bunch of folks to believe them and protest with them, even perhaps put their own life in danger and clearly put the lives of the BLM employees in danger.

What was that guy's name that believed the horrors of Ruby Ridge and Waco. Became convinced it was the Government against the People, got his emotions whipped up by the anti-government fringe groups and was so angered that he sought to even the score? Oh, yea, almost forgot about Timothy McVeigh, standing tall as the latest greatest American Patriots, protector of our freedoms.

All this nonsense that Bundy is stirring up could have easily led to lives lost. Still can. 

Literally thousands of cell phones with videos and no one could put together a 30 second clip that makes a bit of sense?


----------



## barnbilder (Jul 1, 2005)

If Bundy is a thief, so that makes Harry Reid a hero? I'm beginning to understand your logic.


----------



## Lisa in WA (Oct 11, 2004)

barnbilder said:


> If Bundy is a thief, so that makes Harry Reid a hero? I'm beginning to understand your logic.


I don't really think you understand all that much about what I'm saying, to be honest.


----------



## Lisa in WA (Oct 11, 2004)

I have no patience with nepotism and if Harry Reid is doing that, I condemn him for it. I've seen no proof that is what is happening though. 
OTOH: If putting in a solar facility pays more for the taxpayer than a deadbeat rancher does, than as a taxpayer, I'm all for it. The BLM's job is to MANAGE our property for us, not subsidize an already heavily subsidized industry.


----------



## mmoetc (Oct 9, 2012)

barnbilder said:


> If Bundy is a thief, so that makes Harry Reid a hero? I'm beginning to understand your logic.


Are those cell phone towers in the area back in operation yet. Did everybody get back the phones and cameras the government confiscated? Any of those defenders of freedom with their cell phones and cameras back home with a good internet connection to download all that evidence of abuse and death? Anyone? Anywhere?


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## grandma12703 (Jan 13, 2011)

LisaInN.Idaho said:


> So I guess you don't have a problem with people who abuse welfare or food stamps? Because Bundy is using public resources that come with a price tag and refusing to pay for those resources. I have to pay to go into a National Park. Every other rancher who grazes their cattle or sheep on public land has to pay...why should Bundy be exempt. Those grazing fees go toward repairing the damage done by cattle which is considerable (ever seen a riparian area after cattle are through with it) and how about fighting wild fires in the west? You wanna chip in and pay his share because a millionaire rancher doesn't want to?


I didn't say I agree with Bundy. The jury is still out on that in my mind. I think I am not smart enough to muddle through all of the legalities of the situation. My problem was the guns a blazin mentallity the BLM had going in. I absolutely worried about bloodshed over cattle and land.

I grew up a ranchers step daughter. Sheep, cattle and hogs and we owned the land we grazed on and raised alfalfa and wheat on the rest. This whole public land thing is a fiasco in my mind. 

My point was just that some compared strongly to Waco and I just don't see any comparison at all. In so much as I remember there were children and others held against their will and being abused. Now true or untrue that is human lives at stake. It ended horribly and should not have happened but still no comparison on why law enforecment needed to go in full force at Waco and why they need to go full force now. 

Food stamps and other services. Well I have never had any type of govt. assistance and never plan to. I would also not let my children or their families need the asst. if I can help them instead. I don't really even know what that has to do with this at all.


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## ErinP (Aug 23, 2007)

barnbilder said:


> If Bundy is a thief, so that makes Harry Reid a hero? I'm beginning to understand your logic.


I don't think you understand logic in general, personally. 
From an elementary logic lesson, "Because the sky is blue, does not by default, mean my house is yellow." 


One has nothing whatsoever to do with the other. One is certainly not _contingent_ upon the other. :shrug:


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## ErinP (Aug 23, 2007)

grandma12703 said:


> I am just gonna throw this out there because it is making me crazy. Ruby Ridge doesn't bother me as a comparison of overstepping but WACO, really? To me that is not remotely the same kind of thing.
> 
> Bundy is hurting no other human being. This is land and cattle we are talking about. I just don't see a comparison here at all.


Very true. And that's why BLM backed down. 
Not that they were afraid or were put in their place or whatever else I've seen in the last couple days, but because this is not worth people DYING for. 
Even if they are exceedingly _stupid_ people... 



LisaInN.Idaho said:


> I have no patience with nepotism and if Harry Reid is doing that, I condemn him for it. I've seen no proof that is what is happening though.
> OTOH: If putting in a solar facility pays more for the taxpayer than a deadbeat rancher does, than as a taxpayer, I'm all for it. The BLM's job is to MANAGE our property for us, not subsidize an already heavily subsidized industry.


The part they were looking at for the solar facility was no where near the area in dispute. More importantly, considering how much BLM ground is in Nevada, and how easy it is to come by both open ground AND sunshine, there's really no reason it would have to be in one specific area anyway.


----------



## Lisa in WA (Oct 11, 2004)

grandma12703 said:


> I didn't say I agree with Bundy. The jury is still out on that in my mind. I think I am not smart enough to muddle through all of the legalities of the situation. My problem was the guns a blazin mentallity the BLM had going in. I absolutely worried about bloodshed over cattle and land.
> 
> I grew up a ranchers step daughter. Sheep, cattle and hogs and we owned the land we grazed on and raised alfalfa and wheat on the rest. This whole public land thing is a fiasco in my mind.
> 
> ...


I was and am disgusted by the government's actions at Waco and Ruby Ridge. However. I see no comparison here at all. The BLM most certainly did not go in with "guns a blazing". They acted with great restraint as they should and backed down for now. They were being threatened with violence and they do have a duty to protect their people as well as the contractors who were helping them.


----------



## Lisa in WA (Oct 11, 2004)

ErinP said:


> Very true. And that's why BLM backed down.
> Not that they were afraid or were put in their place or whatever else I've seen in the last couple days, but because this is not worth people DYING for.
> Even if they are exceedingly _stupid_ people...
> 
> ...


I understand that. But even if it WAS in the same area, they would be acting in the taxpayers best interest to mitigate damage to the land and get the best return if that is the case. If it is in keeping with the management plan for desert tortoises, etc.


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## ErinP (Aug 23, 2007)

> as well as the contractors who were helping them


And what I find particularly unnerving is that the "contractors" who are helping them are nothing more than cowboys doing some day work. 

In fact, Saturday night, having heard what BLM was paying for impounding these cattle, DH and a bunch of buddies (all cowboys) were joking that they could have cut them a deal and gathered them for about half the price.


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## grandma12703 (Jan 13, 2011)

I am gonna tell a story on a friend that happened many years ago. They didn't pay their lease on some land they were running their sheep on. Well, long story short the sheriff and deputies came out with some cowboys and rounded the sheep up (around 400 of them), loaded them in trailers and transported them to a holding facility. The sheep had to be held and cared for until the friend came up with a % of amount due to get them back. The lease was terminated but the sheep owner got his stock back. My point being that it did not take snipers and hundreds of trained military and police to pick these animals up. It took a Sheriff, who knew his people, to talk to my friend and let him know this is what had to happen and that he needed to get his lawyer in gear to get his stock back. He also guaranteed the animals would be well taken care of and they were. Every cowboy that came to gather the stock knew this friend as well. They hated what was happening and for this reason took care in making sure the stock was handled appropriately. This is why I believe local jurisdiction should be the entity involved in this roundup. I know courts supposedly decided against the rancher on the land issue but I question why they have a right to the animals? This needs to go back to a local or state court and the rancher should have the opportunity to get his stock back even if he can't retain the land for use. Those in charge need to pay for any lost or killed animals IMO. 

I posted this before and will repost. This is my point.


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## Lisa in WA (Oct 11, 2004)

grandma12703 said:


> I am gonna tell a story on a friend that happened many years ago. They didn't pay their lease on some land they were running their sheep on. Well, long story short the sheriff and deputies came out with some cowboys and rounded the sheep up (around 400 of them), loaded them in trailers and transported them to a holding facility. The sheep had to be held and cared for until the friend came up with a % of amount due to get them back. The lease was terminated but the sheep owner got his stock back. My point being that it did not take snipers and hundreds of trained military and police to pick these animals up. It took a Sheriff, who knew his people, to talk to my friend and let him know this is what had to happen and that he needed to get his lawyer in gear to get his stock back. He also guaranteed the animals would be well taken care of and they were. Every cowboy that came to gather the stock knew this friend as well. They hated what was happening and for this reason took care in making sure the stock was handled appropriately. This is why I believe local jurisdiction should be the entity involved in this roundup. I know courts supposedly decided against the rancher on the land issue but I question why they have a right to the animals? This needs to go back to a local or state court and the rancher should have the opportunity to get his stock back even if he can't retain the land for use. Those in charge need to pay for any lost or killed animals IMO.
> 
> I posted this before and will repost. This is my point.


The local sheriff here did nothing to enforce 2 federal court orders to remove the cattle from the land. And the rancher was ACTIVELY threatening violence against anyone who did and drumming up support via the internet. Did your friend do that? Are the BLM not to be allowed to protect themselves?


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## ErinP (Aug 23, 2007)

The local sherif does not have the resources to round up 1000 head of cattle off that much range. And that's even before we get into the fact that Bundy is obviously a raving lunatic. 
There's a reason he did nothing...


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## ErinP (Aug 23, 2007)

grandma12703 said:


> I am gonna tell a story on a friend that happened many years ago. They didn't pay their lease on some land they were running their sheep on. Well, long story short the sheriff and deputies came out with some cowboys and rounded the sheep up (around 400 of them), loaded them in trailers and transported them to a holding facility. The sheep had to be held and cared for until the friend came up with a % of amount due to get them back. The lease was terminated but the sheep owner got his stock back. My point being that it did not take snipers and hundreds of trained military and police to pick these animals up. It took a Sheriff, who knew his people, to talk to my friend and let him know this is what had to happen and that he needed to get his lawyer in gear to get his stock back. He also guaranteed the animals would be well taken care of and they were. Every cowboy that came to gather the stock knew this friend as well. They hated what was happening and for this reason took care in making sure the stock was handled appropriately. This is why I believe local jurisdiction should be the entity involved in this roundup. I know courts supposedly decided against the rancher on the land issue but I question why they have a right to the animals? This needs to go back to a local or state court and the rancher should have the opportunity to get his stock back even if he can't retain the land for use. Those in charge need to pay for any lost or killed animals IMO.
> 
> I posted this before and will repost. This is my point.


Everything I've seen is that they were impounding his cattle. I would _assume_ that was just until damages/fees were paid? (Just like what the county sherif would do for someone whose stock was trespassing on the neighbors')
Of course, this was with the assumption that he would pay. If not, they would be sold to recoup losses, again, just like any other LEO impounding trespassing livestock,


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## ErinP (Aug 23, 2007)

THIS is an interesting read:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs...ween-cliven-bundy-and-the-federal-government/


Apparently the Bundys of the area had been threatening BLM/NFS for decades. Pipe bombs in their offices, harassment of employee's kids, etc.  It makes sense that they took this impounding VERY seriously.


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## haypoint (Oct 4, 2006)

"it did not take snipers and hundreds of trained military and police to pick "

Since this is about videos, show me the 200 BLM snipers Bundy claimed, get me a photo of hundreds of trained military. You bought Bundy's nonsense?

If Bundy is out gunned, that is evil. If BLM is out gunned, that is justice? Dows the REPO man show up to take your car alone?


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## grandma12703 (Jan 13, 2011)

Can't help but post something that was on my facebook today. Since I have a lot of Indian blood I thought it was pretty good.


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## Paumon (Jul 12, 2007)

haypoint said:


> "it did not take snipers and hundreds of trained military and police to pick "
> 
> Since this is about videos, show me the 200 BLM snipers Bundy claimed, get me a photo of hundreds of trained military.* You bought Bundy's nonsense?*
> 
> If Bundy is out gunned, that is evil. If BLM is out gunned, that is justice? Dows the REPO man show up to take your car alone?


I think a lot of people willingly got suckered :ashamed: by Bundy's nonsense because they wanted to believe it and Bundy was counting on the suckers to take up his cause and spread a lot of lies and paranoia without ascertaining all the facts. :facepalm:

It's so easy to spread lies through internet these days. Isn't it about time for the gullible suckers to realize that and start thinking for themselves and doing their own fact checking before jumping on troublemakers bandwagons? :bandwagon:


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## Lisa in WA (Oct 11, 2004)

grandma12703 said:


> Can't help but post something that was on my facebook today. Since I have a lot of Indian blood I thought it was pretty good.


Exactly! If he wants to claim ancestral rights, he'd better get out of the way for the Indians. One of the reasons his original grazing lease was modified was to protect Native American artifacts on the land in question. So clearly they were there using the land.


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## haypoint (Oct 4, 2006)

Too bad www.snopes.com doesn't cover BS like this nonsense.


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## haypoint (Oct 4, 2006)

This video says a lot

http://thedailyshow.cc.com/videos/v4jh6e/apocalypse-cow?xrs=synd_facebook_042214_tds_97


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## Lisa in WA (Oct 11, 2004)

haypoint said:


> This video says a lot
> 
> http://thedailyshow.cc.com/videos/v4jh6e/apocalypse-cow?xrs=synd_facebook_042214_tds_97



oh yes it does.


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## barnbilder (Jul 1, 2005)

That's funny. But not as funny as the naÃ¯ve people that think that the federal government was doing the right thing, when after 20 years of inaction, they mounted a military operation that resulted in shooting up a man's property, then they gave up whatever progress they had made and left, as soon as a senators involvement was questioned. You must be so proud. Biggest mistake made in this whole deal was Clive should have named the place Benghazi Ranch, no worries of armed federal personnel showing up then.


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## arabian knight (Dec 19, 2005)

barnbilder said:


> That's funny. But not as funny as the naÃ¯ve people that think that the federal government was doing the right thing, when after 20 years of inaction, they mounted a military operation that resulted in shooting up a man's property, then they gave up whatever progress they had made and left, as soon as a senators involvement was questioned. You must be so proud. Biggest mistake made in this whole deal was Clive should have named the place Benghazi Ranch, no worries of armed federal personnel showing up then.


 How about these so called militia types that said they would barricade themselves with Woman and children in FRONT OF THEM.

Wow now that is being brave, and not one ANYBODY in this country should even think about joining or making them some kind of hero in this case. They are stupid and dumb nut-cases extreme right wing militant militia types that are just out to get back at the ever so scary Government that they hate so much.
So who is the big bully on the block now? LOL


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## barnbilder (Jul 1, 2005)

If it weren't for extreme right wing nut cases, we would now be under British rule, except for the fact that Hitler pretty much had Britain against the ropes until we bailed them out. Left wing nut-cases are the ones to fear. Mau and Lenin, yeah those guys have a much better track record than right wing nut cases. You probably have a Chez Guevara shirt on while you rant about dangerous right wing nut jobs. I'll take my chances with right wing nut jobs, because as long as we have right wing nut jobs we will know that the left wing nut jobs haven't taken over. The left wing nut jobs are the ones that kill people by the millions, and in this case they have killed some cattle.


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## ErinP (Aug 23, 2007)

If my neighbor had been illegally grazing my pasture for *20 years* despite my having repeatedly gotten court orders telling him to get OFF, I can do whatever I want with "his" cattle. 
The fact that they're on my place means they're actually _mine_. :shrug:


Bundy is nothing but a thief. 
He doesn't have a noble cause beyond lining his own pockets.  Much as his handful of supporters have tried to sell it, this really _isn't_ a right or left issue... 
Good grief, even uber conservatives like the Nevada Cattlemen don't support this.


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## arabian knight (Dec 19, 2005)

Especially now when it just came out that the family did not buy the land until 1948. C. Bundy was born in 1946. His family did not have that land for a 100 years like he has told so many.


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## ErinP (Aug 23, 2007)

Oh now THAT is interesting...
http://www.8newsnow.com/story/25301551/bundys-ancestral-rights-come-under-scrutiny


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## barnbilder (Jul 1, 2005)

ErinP said:


> If my neighbor had been illegally grazing my pasture for *20 years* despite my having repeatedly gotten court orders telling him to get OFF, I can do whatever I want with "his" cattle.
> The fact that they're on my place means they're actually _mine_. :shrug:
> 
> 
> No, I think there are probably animal cruelty laws that you might have to abide by. Unless you're the government.


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## mmoetc (Oct 9, 2012)

barnbilder said:


> ErinP said:
> 
> 
> > If my neighbor had been illegally grazing my pasture for *20 years* despite my having repeatedly gotten court orders telling him to get OFF, I can do whatever I want with "his" cattle.
> ...


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## haypoint (Oct 4, 2006)

barnbilder said:


> That's funny. But not as funny as the naÃ¯ve people that think that the federal government was doing the right thing, when after 20 years of inaction, they mounted a military operation that resulted in shooting up a man's property, then they gave up whatever progress they had made and left, as soon as a senators involvement was questioned. You must be so proud. Biggest mistake made in this whole deal was Clive should have named the place Benghazi Ranch, no worries of armed federal personnel showing up then.


It wasn't 20 years of inaction. More like 20 years dragging Bundy through courts. Shooting up his property? Really? They didn't give up due to some concocted conspiracy theory. They left because of the nutcases Bundy recruited posed a threat to their staff. If it were for the reasons you believe, it would be over. But it is not over.


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## copperkid3 (Mar 18, 2005)

I'm waiting for the IRS raids with full military back-up, to hit AL $HARPTON'$ place . . .

If the BLM does all that for an alleged (and might I add, measly) $1 million in unpaid grazing fees,

image what should be accomplished for the $2.6+ million that AL owes since 2011 . . .

no doubt topping better than $3 million by now what with the late fees & interest tacked on.

But then that would probably be considered 'racist' for the gooberment goons 

to go after a political activist instead of a rancher . . .

One wonders how Jesse Jackson remains unaudited after his $1.3+ million

in undocumented travel expenditures thru his non-profit gets a pass as well?

Where's the moral outrage from the left, on THESE thieves . . . !!!?

http://nypost.com/2011/12/11/rev-al-deep-in-the-red/

http://www.theamericanconservative.com/dreher/jesse-jackson-the-politicized-irs/


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## haypoint (Oct 4, 2006)

Focus.
It wasn't ever about 20 years of grazing fees. It was and is about 20 years of criminal trespass.


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## ErinP (Aug 23, 2007)

And frankly, if I were ranching in Nevada I would be outright _infuriated_ that that much grass is being used by some squatter who thinks he has the right to keep it away from those of us who are willing to PAY!


BLM went in armed because they've been receiving death threats, pipe bombs, harassment of their kids, etc. for years. 
It's obvious people like Bundy aren't playing with a full deck.


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## copperkid3 (Mar 18, 2005)

haypoint said:


> Focus.
> It wasn't ever about 20 years of grazing fees. It was and is about 20 years of criminal trespass.


+ + + + + + + +
Cause it's not for the reasons you claim either.

Check into Harry Reid and his son Rory's financial interest and the

fleecing of America thru favored marketing of 4000 acres of Nevada

scrubland for pennies on the dollar to a Chinese solar conglomerate.

Fortunately, the deal fell thru at the 11th hour, but I'm sure the Reid's

are attempting to reignite the embers, once this Bundy fiasco subsides.


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## wr (Aug 10, 2003)

copperkid3 said:


> + + + + + + + +
> Cause it's not for the reasons you claim either.
> 
> Check into Harry Reid and his son Rory's financial interest and the
> ...


I don't know if either side has been completely up front on the matter but if Bundy wanted public sympathy, I think his cause would be more credible if he had continued to pay his grazing lease. If he had, he may have been able to win in court but as it stands now, all many people see is a man who defaulted on his payments and wants to carry on using lands he's not paying rental on.


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## haypoint (Oct 4, 2006)

copperkid3 said:


> + + + + + + + +
> Cause it's not for the reasons you claim either.
> 
> Check into Harry Reid and his son Rory's financial interest and the
> ...



I'm not about to support Harry Reid, Rory Reid or anyone else. Nevada is a big state. Most is Federal land. The Bundy property and the Reid deal aren't close to each other. Focus.

Does it have to be a conspiracy? Why can't it just be an old coot continuing to graze land that he has no legal right to graze?:icecream:


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## arabian knight (Dec 19, 2005)

Well he is not getting any more sympathy now with those crazy racists statements. Oh he might find that those good old boy militia types might agree with him though.


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## haypoint (Oct 4, 2006)

http://thedailyshow.cc.com/videos/y...ts-of-slavery?xrs=synd_facebook_042514_tds_53


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## Lisa in WA (Oct 11, 2004)

haypoint said:


> http://thedailyshow.cc.com/videos/y...ts-of-slavery?xrs=synd_facebook_042514_tds_53



Strangely, in this video Bundy reminds me of Frank Pentangeli from The Godfather.


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## farmrbrown (Jun 25, 2012)

It's funny how all sovereign citizens are automatically assumed to be all alike ( racist, ignorant, white, etc.) yet we're supposed to assume that there is absolutely no connection between two pieces of land in the same state that the feds are involved with. 
Nope, nothing to see here.........


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## haypoint (Oct 4, 2006)

farmrbrown said:


> It's funny how all sovereign citizens are automatically assumed to be all alike ( racist, ignorant, white, etc.) yet we're supposed to assume that there is absolutely no connection between two pieces of land in the same state that the feds are involved with.
> Nope, nothing to see here.........


The Feds own 70% of Nevada. That is a lot of real-estate. To try to draw a line between illegal grazing in one segment of this vast acreage and some politician's mining or solar interests that has not been supported by facts, seems to be a huge jump.

Some politicians are not to be trusted. If you agree, try looking into something with a shred of evidence and root out some facts. Hate to see such ambition going to waste.

If a guy got kicked out of his apartment, three states away, and Michigan's governor's brother bought an apartment in Michigan, should we assume that purchase was connected to the guy that lost his apartment? Oh.


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## farmrbrown (Jun 25, 2012)

haypoint said:


> The Feds own 70% of Nevada. That is a lot of real-estate. To try to draw a line between illegal grazing in one segment of this vast acreage and some politician's mining or solar interests that has not been supported by facts, seems to be a huge jump.
> 
> Some politicians are not to be trusted.* If you agree, try looking into something with a shred of evidence and root out some facts.* Hate to see such ambition going to waste.
> 
> If a guy got kicked out of his apartment, three states away, and Michigan's governor's brother bought an apartment in Michigan, should we assume that purchase was connected to the guy that lost his apartment? Oh.




You mean like gov't documents from the BLM like this?

http://archive.today/nvlzr

http://www.thewildlifenews.com/2014...issing-blm-page-connecting-to-harry-reid-not/

http://www.blm.gov/nv/st/en/fo/lvfo/blm_programs/energy/dry_lake_solar_energy.html



The 2nd link is included on purpose, to show a feeble attempt to explain away this supposed coincidence, while it clearly shows the opposite to anyone that can read with comprehension.
After all if it's 2O miles away, most city folks will think that's like a thousand miles, right?


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## wr (Aug 10, 2003)

farmrbrown said:


> It's funny how all sovereign citizens are automatically assumed to be all alike ( racist, ignorant, white, etc.) yet we're supposed to assume that there is absolutely no connection between two pieces of land in the same state that the feds are involved with.
> Nope, nothing to see here.........



I may be misinformed but labels and assumptions have never been helpful in any situation.


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## ErinP (Aug 23, 2007)

farmrbrown said:


> You mean like gov't documents from the BLM like this?
> 
> http://archive.today/nvlzr
> 
> ...




I don't think you understand what you're reading. 
_None_ of those links support your contention... :shrug:


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## farmrbrown (Jun 25, 2012)

ErinP said:


> I don't think you understand what you're reading.
> _None_ of those links support your contention... :shrug:


That's actually hilarious.
If I didn't have to get up at 4am I might take the time and pull out each sentence from each link one by one, bold high light it and cross reference it with the reports and posts made in here saying that the BLM was NOT in fact trying to move cattle off grazing lands in Nevada for purposes OTHER than what was being reported to the public........whew.

But why bother?
Someone asked me to provide factual info and I did it with the BLM's own documents.
If that doesn't convince you nothing will so I won't waste my valuable time.


This was also contained in that 3rd link. I hadn't even gotten around to reading THIS one, LOL.

http://www.doi.gov/news/pressreleas...-Solar-Energy-Development-on-Public-Lands.cfm


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## haypoint (Oct 4, 2006)

farmrbrown said:


> That's actually hilarious.
> If I didn't have to get up at 4am I might take the time and pull out each sentence from each link one by one, bold high light it and cross reference it with the reports and posts made in here saying that the BLM was NOT in fact trying to move cattle off grazing lands in Nevada for purposes OTHER than what was being reported to the public........whew.
> 
> But why bother?
> ...


So, the forward thinking BLM, shut down Bundy's grazing permits, and everyone else's, in that area, 18 years before solar was allowed on Federal land in preparation for the election of the Nation's first Black President, knowing that Obama would want to use the land near Bundy (and millions of acres in 5 other states) for solar? How dare the over-reaching government use our Federal lands to produce pollution free energy?ound:ound:ound:


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## farmrbrown (Jun 25, 2012)

Nope. Not even close.
Of course you'd have to read the links to see the dates when this started.
The very first one did start about 14 years ago but most have been within the last 5 years or so.
But that isn't even the point, is it?
No, the point is when you've had first hand experience with corrupt gov't officials using things like zoning laws, eminent domain and other various gov't powers, you recognize the pattern very quickly.
It isn't always a specific plan with a known outcome. It is the fact that they know they have control of the land when the opportunity DOES arise, so they can cash in on it.
Fortunately the gov't crooks have the media, the ignorant and above all the loyal lap dogs to help with their defense.


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## haypoint (Oct 4, 2006)

Corrupt government officials and Zoning Laws?

Within many civilized communities, the people of those communities attempt to protect their communities in a variety of ways. In some communities it might seem important to protect the people from commercial development. Zoning laws can restrict that, protecting the residents. In some communities, it might be important to the people to limit blight, things like junk yards, open trash, etc. Zoning laws can protect the real estate investments everyone has made. Junky neighboring property effects the resale value and general enjoyment of a person's largest investment.

In my community, elected officials created a Land Use Plan. A sort of road map to the direction we wanted to see our community go. Then Zoning laws were created to encourage the things that encouraged the development we wanted and discourage the things we wanted less of. Most folks wanted (as a single example) more full time residences and fewer tiny tar paper shacks. So, there was a Zoning law prohibiting a house of less than 600 square feet. Gradually the shacks deteriorated and were often replaced with family homes. 
At the other end of this scale, construction of high rise apartments was also restricted, limiting population density, maintaining the desired rural atmosphere.
This is all fine and dandy, unless you are the one that wants to maintain a front yard junk yard or live in a tiny home. If you are a developer that seeks to wipe out the rural charm with a housing complex, you'd have to go elsewhere.

Often times when individuals proclaim Zoning laws as corrupt government, it is because their ideals run counter to the community that they have chosen to live in. Corrupt government does not enact zoning, the people of a community do.

If you don't like the way things are, attend local government meetings, get involved, let your elected officials know what you believe. But if you want to be taken seriously, I'd keep my convoluted conspiracy theories to my self.


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## farmrbrown (Jun 25, 2012)

haypoint said:


> Corrupt government officials and Zoning Laws?
> 
> Within many civilized communities, the people of those communities attempt to protect their communities in a variety of ways. In some communities it might seem important to protect the people from commercial development. Zoning laws can restrict that, protecting the residents. In some communities, it might be important to the people to limit blight, things like junk yards, open trash, etc. Zoning laws can protect the real estate investments everyone has made. Junky neighboring property effects the resale value and general enjoyment of a person's largest investment.
> 
> ...


That's funny, right there!

Maybe if I feel like it later, I'll clue you in on my past........

Personally knowing city, county and state officials, attending meetings and being privy to vote buying and "convenient" real estate deals of same officials is why I have the opinion that I do today!


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