# Illness Due to Home Canned Food - Poll



## Karen (Apr 17, 2002)

How many occassions do you PERSONLY know who has been seriously ill due to eating home canned food. Not just an upset stomach, etc., but really ill. Not just that they said so, but you have been able to verify.


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## braidsandboots (Jan 7, 2010)

My answer would be ZERO if that were an option.


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## thelendleys (Jun 2, 2004)

None....


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## Karen (Apr 17, 2002)

Go ahead and vote, I was fixing that option! LOL


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## HillRunner (Jun 28, 2010)

None here either.


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## Lucy (May 15, 2006)

Two deaths, one lady in the hospital now with botulism. One death was my stepmom. 
The other was a client's husband who did not use a pressure canner for green beans when they were instructed to do so. The man ate the beans she had fixed for him that she had canned in the BWB canner.


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## sticky_burr (Dec 10, 2010)

odd never used pressure for green beans .. and never heard of a issue even vomiting or tummy ache. my grand mother even canned a poached deer, er i mean a deer shot under a pine / apple tree


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## Sherry in Iowa (Jan 10, 2010)

None~


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## deaconjim (Oct 31, 2005)

I've never known anyone who was sick from eating home canned food, but I have had a patient in my ambulance who was sick from store bought canned food.


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## beaglebiz (Aug 5, 2008)

I know two folks that died from botulism, But I dont know if it was from home canned food, so I didnt vote.


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## Our Little Farm (Apr 26, 2010)

I have never known anyone that has ever got ill or died from home canned food.


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## Our Little Farm (Apr 26, 2010)

sticky_burr said:


> odd never used pressure for green beans .. and never heard of a issue even vomiting or tummy ache. my grand mother even canned a poached deer, er i mean a deer shot under a pine / apple tree


I would never eat beans not pressure canned. They are not acidic enough to be safe to do so. Same goes for meat. Meat has to be pressure canned always. I think you have been lucky so far, but please change your canning ways!


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## jamala (May 4, 2007)

My neighbor doesn't pressure can green beans either, both are in their late 60's and have always BWB them. Neither has gotten sick and they were surprised that I pressured mine. I told them my kids life was just too precious to take a chance. My grandma said in old days they BWB green beans with no problem but she knows that I will ONLY feed my kids beans that have been pressured.


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## Our Little Farm (Apr 26, 2010)

Shows that it can be done Jamala, but I agree, why risk it? My family means too much to me to water bath when I can pressure can. I go by the guidelines.


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## mekasmom (Jan 19, 2010)

Lucy said:


> Two deaths, one lady in the hospital now with botulism. One death was my stepmom.
> The other was a client's husband who did not use a pressure canner for green beans when they were instructed to do so. The man ate the beans she had fixed for him that she had canned in the BWB canner.


I canned corn, carrots, cabbage, and beans (and tomatoes, apples, etc) in a WBC for decades, since I was a teen just up to when I bought my pressure canners a couple of years ago. You just have to can them for over 4hrs in a WBC. A pressure canner is much easier though. We have never been ill from them even all those 30+ yrs using a WBC. A lot of it just has to do with the technique. 

I do have to admit that I don't PC any of them for 90minutes though, like I have read that some people do. My older sister always said 15min in a pressure canner works fine, but I do about 30 plus the cool down time before opening it.


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## Karen (Apr 17, 2002)

I asked the question because I have been unable to find any documented cases (later than the 1930's) of deaths or serious illness related directly to home canned food. 

Makes me wonder if just because science says it can occur, does it really? How did our generations survive? Plus, there were no pressure canners when my great grandparents canned everything known to mankind. They washed things well and processed them for hours and hours. 

I'm one who doesn't take a chance on my canning methods (pressure vs. water bath, correct timing and pressure, etc.), but I do can a whole lot of things the USDA tells you are uncannable (like butter, bacon, cheese, etc.). But being an old lady, I've seen a lot of canning methods and things canned in my day and, I've never known a single person in my entire life to ever get sick, let alone die. 

I also have not even seen any documented cases in foreign countries. I recall a while back one of the members here that lives in France saying the USDA trained canners would have a heart attack if they saw how home canners do it in France. LOL! I know that is true in other countries as well. 

I tend to wonder if history is showing us that as long as our food is clean, our jars are clean, our lids proper, and food is processed sufficiently, my bet is that any sickness or death was the result of home canned food that didn't have a tight seal and went bad. Just a thought.


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## Karen (Apr 17, 2002)

BTW, check any old canning book and the instructions are for non-acid veggies to be processed 4 hours. Meat for 6-8.


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## PixieLou (May 1, 2010)

Karen - botulism is the main concern. If you go to the CDC Botulism page, you can click on the surveillance links, which tell of every case of documented for the past 10 years. There is a lot more infant botulism and wound botulilsm that foodborne botulism. And of the foodborne botulism, there are many other sources than home canned food. Even for the home canned food - there is no documentation as to whether proper processing guidelines were followed - for instance, when home canned green beans are cited, we don't know if they were BWB of PC.

http://www.cdc.gov/nczved/divisions/dfbmd/diseases/botulism/


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## beaglebiz (Aug 5, 2008)

Karen said:


> BTW, check any old canning book and the instructions are for non-acid veggies to be processed 4 hours. Meat for 6-8.


I understand what you are saying (I was taught to can with the "open kettle" method, and wax on top of your jams. I think the problem is not the length of time to process (without a pressure canner you can only get the temp up to 212, no matter how long you cook it), but the internal temperature achieved (botulism can live up to ?? I think its 250 degrees or something). If no one has died lately, I think thats great, perhaps botulism in the soil is not as common as you might think, but it can happen. I wouldnt want to take that chance, especially when I have all the right equipment, and my canned goods sometimes sit on the shelf for up to three years. 

As another thought, has anyone ever tossed a questionable jar?? Didnt like the sound it made when you opened it, product fizzed, or something just didnt feel right in your gut (before you ate it )?? I have done that lots of times over the years, better safe than sorry


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## Karen (Apr 17, 2002)

PixieLou said:


> Karen - botulism is the main concern. If you go to the CDC Botulism page, you can click on the surveillance links, which tell of every case of documented for the past 10 years. There is a lot more infant botulism and wound botulilsm that foodborne botulism. And of the foodborne botulism, there are many other sources than home canned food. Even for the home canned food - there is no documentation as to whether proper processing guidelines were followed - for instance, when home canned green beans are cited, we don't know if they were BWB of PC.
> 
> http://www.cdc.gov/nczved/divisions/dfbmd/diseases/botulism/


Okay, so out of the millions and millions of home canned foods, here's the results according to those documented results from homecanned food. Only 1 person died in 8 years of reporting:
2009 - 3 
2008 - 14 all from the same 4 cases of home canned green bean/carrot mix - one death.
2007 - none
2006 - 2 
2005 - none
2004 - none
2003 - none
2002 - none
2001 - none​


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## PixieLou (May 1, 2010)

> The other was a client's husband who did not use a pressure canner for green beans when they were instructed to do so. The man ate the beans she had fixed for him that she had canned in the BWB canner.


Hmmmmm - the CDC only has 1 record of botulism death from home canned green beans in the past 10 years. And that was a 58 year old female in Virginia.


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## suitcase_sally (Mar 20, 2006)

Lucy said:


> Two deaths, one lady in the hospital now with botulism. One death was my stepmom.
> The other was a client's husband who did not use a pressure canner for green beans when they were instructed to do so. The man ate the beans she had fixed for him that she had canned in the BWB canner.


Karen said you have to be able to verify. Link to a story in the local news?


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## fffarmergirl (Oct 9, 2008)

Lucy said:


> Two deaths, one lady in the hospital now with botulism. One death was my stepmom.
> The other was a client's husband who did not use a pressure canner for green beans when they were instructed to do so. The man ate the beans she had fixed for him that she had canned in the BWB canner.


That certainly explains why you take it so seriously, and why you have put in the time & effort required to thoroughly educate yourself.

As a former ER nurse, I know Drs don't report everything to the CDC. It takes time & they're already pressed for time. I know of a guy who died from from eating pickled eggs that were stored on top of the fridge after opening, & there are many people who've never refrigerated them after opening & never got sick. Of course, most people probably don't keep them on top of the fridge......


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## Karen (Apr 17, 2002)

PixieLou said:


> Hmmmmm - the CDC only has 1 record of botulism death from home canned green beans in the past 10 years. And that was a 58 year old female in Virginia.


I was shocked at the statistics. I expected it to be much higher. If you look at those studies, in 8 years there as been only 1 death; and 3 different instances of illness. 

It would also be interesting to know the "hygiene" of these home canners as well and what conditions those foods were canned or consummed under -- to determine if the actual 'processing/method' was to blame.

Some how all the hype isn't showing up in the 'facts'. Personally, I'll still follow the more stringent methods (I'm of the better safe than sorry group), but it's nonetheless, interesting that the numbers don't reflect what the 'experts' keep telling us.


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## Karen (Apr 17, 2002)

fffarmergirl said:


> As a former ER nurse, I know Drs don't report everything to the CDC.


I thought all doctors are required under law to report all types of food poising or food born illness?


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## Our Little Farm (Apr 26, 2010)

BUT what if it was your child that was the 1. 

Why risk it? Seriously. Pressure canning is not hard to do. 

I know the numbers say it is not likely and I have seen all sorts of questionable preserving methods, but what if your child was the 1 that died. Or your friends child that came for supper.

How would you feel. Are you willing to risk it?
I'm not.


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## Aseries (Feb 24, 2011)

From Wikipedia it states:

"Between 1990 and 2000, the Centers for Disease Control reported 263 individual 'cases' from 160 foodborne botulism 'events' in the United States with a case-fatality rate of 4%. Thirty-nine percent (103 cases and 58 events) occurred in Alaska, all of which were attributable to traditional Alaska Native foods. In the lower 49 states, home-canned food was implicated in 70 (91%) events with Asparagus being the worst culprit. Two restaurant-associated outbreaks affected 25 persons. The median number of cases per year was 23 (range 17â43), the median number of events per year was 14 (range 9â24). The highest incidence rates occurred in Alaska, Idaho, Washington, and Oregon. All other states had an incidence rate of 1 case per ten million people or less.[17]"

Should I be concerned. Also reading this part makes me wonder:

"While commercially canned goods are required to undergo a "botulinum cook" at 121 Â°C (250 Â°F) for 3 minutes, and so rarely cause botulism" 

Explain to me commercially canned goods get 3 min at 250F and can bacon at 250F for 90 minutes.... And they tell me home canned bacon is unsafe... I wonder...

The more I read up on this, the more I realize, with clean water, good hygene and pressure canning at low acid foods, the likelyhood of anyone with a pressure canner getting botulism is seriously low.. Its still likely, but like someone said in the other thread, were all going to go to hell if we dont follow the book lol...


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## fffarmergirl (Oct 9, 2008)

Karen said:


> I thought all doctors are required under law to report all types of food poising or food born illness?


They're required by law to do all sorts of things. If they did everything they are required by law to do, they would never get around to actually treating patients, LOL. As it is, everybody already complains nonstop about long ER waits.

Besides, it's rarely clear-cut. Unless a lot of people get sick, they can't be sure whether or not its food poisoning or one of the myriad other causes of similar symptoms. Even something as deadly as botulism presents so similarly to other things.


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## stef (Sep 14, 2002)

Karen said:


> I was shocked at the statistics. I expected it to be much higher. If you look at those studies, in 8 years there as been only 1 death; and 3 different instances of illness.
> 
> It would also be interesting to know the "hygiene" of these home canners as well and what conditions those foods were canned or consummed under -- to determine if the actual 'processing/method' was to blame.
> 
> Some how all the hype isn't showing up in the 'facts'. _*Personally, I'll still follow the more stringent methods (I'm of the better safe than sorry group), *_but it's nonetheless, interesting that the numbers don't reflect what the 'experts' keep telling us.


I agree with you; if the food has been _properly_ home canned its quality is going to be better than commercially prepared.

The only time anyone in my family ever had food poisioning was at a summer baseball tournament years ago. People served baked ham that had been sitting in a hot car for hours. My children ate some and became violently ill. 

I was young and stupid and did not know any better than to prevent them from eating the stuff. It was awful.


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## Lucy (May 15, 2006)

My step sisters would not allow it to be told as to the "cause of death". I had no control over this. This same step mom gave my dad food poisoning on a regular basis. She would leave the leftovers sitting out. He was afraid of her cooking. My husband and I would never eat there. 
The other man, I am not sure as to how it was handled, but both of these are truly dead due to the foods. 
Lots of cases of food borne illnesses are never reported. What stats there are, say that at least 1 in 4 people in the US will get some kind of food poisoning each year. 
I do know of that gal here in our state a few years ago that was a nurse, in the hospital on a ventilator due to her homecanned green beans. Her 2 little girls had botulism, too, but none of them died. I did see that in the paper. 
We get told at work when there are new cases of different food borne illnesses , but somehow they don't seem to publish these in papers, etc. With those new HIPA laws, things are not published as they once were. Like many things, no one wants to be sued for breaking those HIPA laws. I hear about things due to work, but also because my boss works in relations with the local health dept. Sometimes I hear about filthy restaurants, but they are not shut down since they may be 1 point away from failing. Wish they would have to post the scores on the windows of restaurants for all of us to see.
Oh, I also know a gal on another forum who will tell you of a whole bunch of family at a reunion who ate thier aunt's homecanned mushrooms. They were all over in the bushes throwing up ! She does insist it was the mushrooms, as those who ate them got sick, the ones who didn't never got sick.


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## Pelenaka (Jul 27, 2007)

I too despite being a nurse never remember seeing a dx. of botulism on anyone's chart.
That said as fffarmergirl wrote botulism can mimic a vast array of illness. Also given our cultures widely accepted beliefs that we have almost total food safety it's isn't the first thing that an ER Doc would look at. I mean really who cans any more (besides us).

Another aspect to consider is that home canners are fugal souls so if they tend not to seek medical treatment as quickly. So while a case of botulism may have set the wheels in motion, another underlying condition aggravated by the botulism takes presidence such as congestive heart failure. 


~~ pelenaka ~~


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## mekasmom (Jan 19, 2010)

Lucy said:


> We get told at work when there are new cases of different food borne illnesses , but somehow they don't seem to publish these in papers, etc.


You work for the USDA/ county health bureau or health dept type situation, yes?

I think too, that a lot of people just simply do not have a lot of faith in the government health system to have all the answers. I know because you work there, you do believe everything they say. And that is good, part of your job to send out the information they give you. You do that well. You teach what you learn from your superiors. But maybe not all the general public has the same confidence in them that you do.

Perhaps, other people might not all have the reliance in the information that they give you to give others. Quite frankly, I would probably believe something that an experienced canner told me long before I would believe information put out by the USDA. And that's just me, but it is how I feel. There might be other people in the world in the world who feel like that than just me. I don't put my ultimate confidence in the USDA. If somebody who has canned for 50yrs says, "this is how I have always done it, and we have never been ill", I tend to listen to them. simply because I just trust experience more than government. And maybe I just don't always believe the ultimate motive of government is always for the best for the public. Sometimes I think it is for the profit of big business. But that's just me. I mean back in the 50s, government told people that cigarettes were good for them and calming just to help profit the tobacco companies. They don't have the history of always doing everything they do to help the little guy on the street. So I tend to believe other experienced women before I believe everything that the government says. Ladies have taught me how to can butter. It works for me well. So I can butter. I just tend to trust experience more than information from the local Health Dept/USDA on canning. And there might be more people like me in the world. It's certainly not a put down for what you do. It's just that not everyone buys into everything the government wants others to teach us.


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## Karen (Apr 17, 2002)

My point was more that what I'm seeing is that, regardless of food or method used, the facts and figures are extremely high on commercial food. Makes a person wonder if all the worry should be _much more _focused on what we eat that is commercially based.

Our Little Farm, I think people risk it because they have done it that way for so long that it just seems like the 'normal' way of doing it. I wouldn't, but it is interesting that so many have never been ill a day in their life from doing it that way. Interesting because it does defy what we've been told. It actually is defying science and I keep wondering why. With what the USDA tells us, at least several people we personally know of should have been dead a few hundred times over. Yet only 6 _*documented*_ cases in 8 years. I find it quite a fascinating mystery!


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## Karen (Apr 17, 2002)

BTW, thank you all for being so respectful and just having a good conversation on the topic without anyone getting nasty or know-it-all. Something like this is the way to inform and view each side without offending others. Kudos forum members!


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## Lucy (May 15, 2006)

I have been a home canner for 37 years. Yes, I now work at a county extension office as a trained instructor for the Master Food Preserver program, plus answer the phone calls from the public about food preservation and food safety, and a lot more. 
Part of why more people don't get ill is that they boil the foods first before they eat them is what I think.
I am canning more at home because I am worried about store canned foods. My latest thing is canning my own mushrooms. Don't plan to go back to store canned ones. 
I am also trying to not buy fresh produce from other countries.


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## 7thswan (Nov 18, 2008)

I've been canning since I could stand on a chair at the kitchen sink and slip skins off of Tomatoes for my Mom. My Grandmother from Russia also canned but never used a pressure canner, and she canned Mushrooms, which I haven't done yet. Never been sick or knew of anyone from canning-but it sure made an impact on me when we had a number of people die from poisoning from Salsa, in a restaurant-Treni and Carmen's(sp) here in Michigan. That was quite awhile back, and I don't think it was canned,just left out. If ever I'm in doubt, if even the lid comes off too easy,I throw it out. Heck I even throw out the jar. Botulism is so deadly in a small amount,it needs to just get out the house.(I'm pretty sure it was salsa,maybe hot sause????)


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## Sherry in Iowa (Jan 10, 2010)

I prefer to use the pressure canner, but when I first started out..water baths were all that anyone older than me had. I never remember anyone ever getting sick from the canned food. Heck, great grandma was canning on her wood stove. 

I'm like 7thswan, if there is ANY little thing that makes me feel hinky about a jar I just opened..it gets pitched. I am terrible about food and whether it's safe or not. I have more faith in the canning safety of this forum than I do the store bought food. How ridiculous is that? I mean we should be able to count on the food safety in this country.

I do occasionally write articles on canning/freezing. But I always tell people to call their extension offices for help and to also read their canner books. I must say that I am a stickler for using the directions that come with my Mirro. The other thing I think people new to canning do that can cause errors is rush. I think enough time has to be set aside to get the canning done without trying to take "shortcuts". 

I have really enjoyed this thread Karen!


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## Our Little Farm (Apr 26, 2010)

> Yet only 6 documented cases in 8 years. I find it quite a fascinating mystery!


I do too Karen. I wonder how many deaths from food poisoning were from eating home canned food but it was never recorded. Maybe lots, maybe none. Who knows? I am just not brave enough to risk it or have been brainwashed so much that I no longer can.....take your pick

I think everyone on here has so much to share. We can all learn from each other in order to provide for our families.


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## MollysMom (Apr 20, 2010)

I think I'll freeze my veggies from now on. Last summer, I canned green beans and carrots via my pressure canner, but this information has me alittle nervous. My beets were canned in a sweet and spiced vinegar solution in my pressure canner and we have enjoyed them. But I haven't opened a single can of green beans or carrots. I know green beans have been known to cause illness, so I guess I don't trust them, even if I followed the directions completely. Am I being silly or just cautious? How would you know if they were bad, when you open them. Is it true you can boil them, after opening them, for 10 minutes and they are then safe? Or is this just a false safe?


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## Wags (Jun 2, 2002)

My grandmother did greenbeans in water bath all her nearly 100 years. But she did always boil them for 20 minutes before serving. None of us ever got sick eating her green beans. I pressure can mine now, just to be on the safe side. Green beans are our favorite veggie and I can lots of them every year.


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## mekasmom (Jan 19, 2010)

MollysMom said:


> I think I'll freeze my veggies from now on. Last summer, I canned green beans and carrots via my pressure canner, but this information has me alittle nervous. My beets were canned in a sweet and spiced vinegar solution in my pressure canner and we have enjoyed them. But I haven't opened a single can of green beans or carrots. I know green beans have been known to cause illness, so I guess I don't trust them, even if I followed the directions completely. Am I being silly or just cautious? How would you know if they were bad, when you open them. Is it true you can boil them, after opening them, for 10 minutes and they are then safe? Or is this just a false safe?


If you pressure canned them, why would you be nervous? I understand that some people are nervous about WBCanners, but pressure? And, yes, just boil them for ten minutes before serving. You should do that with commercially canned products too.


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## Our Little Farm (Apr 26, 2010)

Mollysmom, if you followed all the guidelines and PCanned for the right amount of time, you will be fine.


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## ChristieAcres (Apr 11, 2009)

I voted before I read the post accurately, thinking it referred to me getting sick eating canned food. Actually, sad story, a school bus driver I knew as a child actually died of Botulism due to eating his wife's home-canned green beans 

That said, I ate a LOT of home-canned food, including green beans, at my Grandparent's and also Dad's 2nd wife's canning. Never got ill, not even once!


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## Karen (Apr 17, 2002)

Our Little Farm said:


> Mollysmom, if you followed all the guidelines and PCanned for the right amount of time, you will be fine.


Exactly right! You're far safer with home canned than commercial.


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## Lucy (May 15, 2006)

Yes, Mollysmom, you should open those jars and eat the food ! You seem to have canned them right, so no worries. If you are concerned, then boil them 10 min. before eating them. 
I have heard that store canned foods are allowed certain percentages of bugs, rat droppings, hairs, twigs,dirt, etc. in them ! So, I would rather eat my own foods and know I don't have any alien things in them.


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## Danaus29 (Sep 12, 2005)

This is what I found
"Because botulism neurotoxin is destroyed by high temperatures (85 degrees C for five minutes), people who eat home-canned foods should consider boiling the food for 10 minutes before eating it to help ensure that the food is safe to consume. Bulging cans or abnormal-smelling preserved foods should be discarded. Do not taste-test them or attempt to boil the food"

on this website:
http://www.medicinenet.com/botulism/page6.htm

We always boiled home canned food for at least 20 minutes. Green beans were usually boiled for 1/2 hour. Even in the old Grange cookbook it calls for boiling home canned food before serving.


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## Karen (Apr 17, 2002)

To me, just the statics show how much safer home canned food is than commercial foods - no matter how they were canned. Consider only 3 reported instances in 8 years of home canned illness, compared to the same CDC reports of commercially processed foods of 132 cases.


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## AmberLBowers (Nov 28, 2008)

None. My grandmother cans (water bath only) extensively, for as long as I can remember. High and low acid foods. I grew up eating her canned corn, green beans, okra, etc. That being said, I am getting a pressure canner for a housewarming gift, and my corn, beans, meat, etc will be pressure canned. My family is worth it, as an above poster said. And at Christmas, I will be volunteering my canned veggies for the family dinners.


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## Our Little Farm (Apr 26, 2010)

> I am getting a pressure canner for a housewarming gift


Yay! :dance:

I agree with Karen, if canned right, home canned food is safer than commercially bought food, not to mention we know what goes into the can, and


> bugs, rat droppings, hairs, twigs,dirt


 are not on my list of ingredients!


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## emma's sheep (Mar 11, 2010)

I think one just needs to follow the rules of preserving and everywhere you read it states to pressure can beans so why would one not do that although I do think being clean with jars lids etc also plays an important part. Canned goods in stores often has dents in them and they still sell the product. To me that is scary, yet people buy them. I personally feel a lot more comfortable with my own produce canned them what is for sale at the grocery stores. I have yet to can meat. Emma


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## Our Little Farm (Apr 26, 2010)

Canning meat is very easy. I can most raw pack, especially venison. As in everything, just follow the instructions. Be careful, make sure everything is clean and be sure to pressure can for the proper time and the right PSI above sea level as it varies.


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