# 32 chunks of poison = totally gross question



## meanwhile (Dec 13, 2007)

Last week I bought what I thought was a whole year's worth of rat/mouse poison. It was two large bags of Tom Cat solid chunks. Apparently someone up and decided there should be a "law" that we cannot buy those nice little granules of poison and so now it all comes in these solid chunks. 

So - I bought two bags = 32 chunks of Tom Cat solid poison.

I left them in the basement and two days later = NO MORE POISON!!!!! It is ALL gone! Something bit a hole in both bags and every single chunk of bait is GONE!!!! Those chunks are 1 ounce each and totally too big for any little ole mouse to haul off.

So? What took all those chunks of Tom Cat Poison???? 

There is no stink of dead bodies in the basement. I could not find any chunks any where. There was no "poop" near where the bags were torn open. I did not see any signs of anything else moved around.

No dogs or cats were in or near the basement and no humans could get in there. There was also a bag with 4 boxes of plain old DCon next to the Tom Cat bags and those were not disturbed at all. 

So? What in the world???? 

Could rats have carried off 32 chunks of poison weighing 1 ounce each?? Squirrels? 

Suggestions? 

I bought some more Tom Cat since....apparently something liked it.....and I put out two chunks of it just to see if something eats it or hauls it off tonight. ( I hid the rest of it so they cannot haul it off too)

Now what?


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## wolffeathers (Dec 20, 2010)

Rats will haul them off to their tunnels and hiding spots.

Just because they haul them off, doesn't mean they're eating them. I think 32 pieces scattered around the house(by the pests) will do the trick.


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## tinknal (May 21, 2004)

If you have a serious rat problem they will have a colony. There may only be a few of the colony members who come into your house, but they bring food back to the colony. Those chunks are doing exactly what you want them to do, killing all the rats, not just the ones who come into the house.


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## Minelson (Oct 16, 2007)

Please be careful with your other critters. If they were to eat a poisoned mouse or rat it could be really bad for them.  Even worse would be getting into the poison it's self. I work at a vet clinic and we see it happen A LOT.


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## Alice In TX/MO (May 10, 2002)

Pack rats.


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## HilltopDaisy (Feb 26, 2003)

No kidding, this would be a "nail biter" here, What the heck????????


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## Astrid (Nov 13, 2010)

Minelson said:


> Please be careful with your other critters. If they were to eat a poisoned mouse or rat it could be really bad for them.  Even worse would be getting into the poison it's self. I work at a vet clinic and we see it happen A LOT.



I agree. An aquaintance of mine lost her cat after he ate a poisoned mouse.


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## calliemoonbeam (Aug 7, 2007)

Alice In TX/MO said:


> Pack rats.


This! I had a problem when I first moved out here, they drove me crazy. I went through the same thing with the "Just One Bite" bait bars. It took months and a small fortune in poison, but I did finally get rid of them...and a nice side effect...the abundance of snakes that apparently were drawn to the rats. :shudder: I had never lived anywhere with so many snakes in my life, and no one seemed to know why...they apparently had a smorgasbord at my house, lol!

P.S. You need to get rid of them because they'll chew through your insulation, wiring, plastic pipes, rubber hoses, you name it, if it's not steel or some kind of metal, they'll chew it up and haul it out for their nests.


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## mom in oklahoma (Nov 25, 2003)

I have been told recently that all the poison does is dehydrate them, supposedely(sp) if the cat eats a mouse and has access to water the cat should be fine. I was just wondering if anyone knew for certain? maybe it depends on the kind of bait used.


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## clong (May 9, 2009)

Active ingredient is bromadiolone. A list of symptoms: Bleeding problems
Hemorrhage - severe poisoning
Eye irritation
Easy bruising
Bleeding gums
Bleeding nose
Blood in urine
Blood in feces
Fatigue
Shortness of breath on exertion
Shock 

Sounds like it works just like warfarin.


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## SilverFlame819 (Aug 24, 2010)

We found out that our HORSE liked the bar bait, and dogs also think it's a neat treat. So the worry isn't just who is going to eat the dead rat, but who is going to eat the bar bait themselves! Be careful!

And you won't think any are dying now, but you just WAIT until the stench starts up! Man, oh man! :yuck:


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## renee o'neill (May 10, 2002)

we are being over ran this year w/ mice.I thought it was only mice well I was very wronge its rats too.I have put traps out and every night They are filled YUCK.I am affraid to use bait cause I dont want them dead in the house but what else is there to do?I put all feed in metal trash cans,no bird feeders near the house,no trash near house what else is there? Oh do not use those sticky traps for rats go ahead ask why????they scream!!!then your stuck w/ a stuck rat screaming and noway to pick up the trap thing along w/ a few little humans freaking out all of this right before bed yep dont use them!


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## fixer1958 (Dec 12, 2005)

Pack rats will steal anything. They have an incredible work ethic. I'm surprised they get any sleep at all with what they can get accomplished in a short amount of time.


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## meanwhile (Dec 13, 2007)

Oh gross - I hate rats and mice and this is just gross. Last night I set out two more chunks in the basement (I put the rest of the bag up so that nothing could get to it this time) but nothing ate or moved the two chunks. So......maybe we got them.

My boys are going to crawl under the house today and search around for the 32 chunks that disappeared. Surely rats could not eat that many chunks of poison in just two days? 

We have cats and we need to find those chunks to be sure the cats don't get them.

Pack Rats? Are they the same as regular barn rats? 

Thanks.


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## fixer1958 (Dec 12, 2005)

Dunno. Looks like a rat.
They don't necessarily eat it always, just store it away.
You are liable to find all kinds of things if you find the hiding spot.

I found a couple of pounds of sheetrock screws in the chicken house that were in the garage. The chicken house is 100' from the house. Found my best work gloves and about 2 dozen 1/4" sockets and a couple of drill bits.
I guess his plan was to start remodeling.


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## willow_girl (Dec 7, 2002)

> I found a couple of pounds of sheetrock screws in the chicken house that were in the garage. The chicken house is 100' from the house. Found my best work gloves and about 2 dozen 1/4" sockets and a couple of drill bits.
> I guess his plan was to start remodeling.


ound: ound: ound:


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## foxtrapper (Dec 23, 2003)

Next time, pick up those tomcat bait station boxes. They keep curious pets and kids out, and make the rodents eat instead of hoard.

Rats, mice and other rodents will hoard poison bait instead of eating it, if given the choice. They will drag it down into a hole for winter food, and go eat something else. This rather defeats your aim of killing them. Poison stations that hold the poison in place force them to eat it because they cannot drag it off. This successfully kills them, which is actually the goal.


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## tinknal (May 21, 2004)

foxtrapper said:


> Next time, pick up those tomcat bait station boxes. They keep curious pets and kids out, and make the rodents eat instead of hoard.
> 
> Rats, mice and other rodents will hoard poison bait instead of eating it, if given the choice. They will drag it down into a hole for winter food, and go eat something else. This rather defeats your aim of killing them. Poison stations that hold the poison in place force them to eat it because they cannot drag it off. This successfully kills them, which is actually the goal.


I have to disagree. By dragging the bait home, it not only kills the rat that comes in your home, it kills the other rats that use that nest, and any rats that try to use that nest in the future,


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## Pony (Jan 6, 2003)

mom in oklahoma said:


> I have been told recently that all the poison does is dehydrate them, supposedely(sp) if the cat eats a mouse and has access to water the cat should be fine. I was just wondering if anyone knew for certain? maybe it depends on the kind of bait used.


The poison causes them to hemorrhage internally, because it prevents their blood from clotting.

That's why we keep Vitamin k on hand. The dogs love the baits and have, in the past, dug them up from tunnels and eaten them.

If your pet gets hold of the poison, induce vomiting by drenching with peroxide mixed with salt (a tablespoon of salt to a half cup of hydrogen peroxide). Once you're sure the dog is clear, dose with vitamin k for two weeks (I don't have the dosage handy, but I'm sure you can find it if you google).

Bait stations are nice, but I agree with Tinknal that the best way is to get the rats to take the goodies home to share.


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## Wolf mom (Mar 8, 2005)

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jezQKOl5q-w[/ame]

The SAFE for pets water bucket rat/mouse trap. I've used it - it works! 

I put a 2X4 board as a ramp for the critters to climb to the top of the bucket. 
On line, some have said to use anti-freeze, but that's bad for pets.

This past fall, I went all around the house (double-wide) and stuffed steel wool between the house and the block foundation and caulked other places where I thought they might get under the house. 

To wake in the middle of the night hearing a rat chewing on your house is nerve-wracking.


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## foxtrapper (Dec 23, 2003)

tinknal said:


> I have to disagree. By dragging the bait home, it not only kills the rat that comes in your home, it kills the other rats that use that nest, and any rats that try to use that nest in the future,


But only when they eat it. When they do dig into hoarded winter stores, then they may well die. But until that time, they will eat outside the hoard and their population will thrive and grow.


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## RedDirt Cowgirl (Sep 21, 2010)

I think you're wise here, Foxtrapper. Plus, I worry about this stuff seeping into our ground water. Even with d-con, the larger pellets get carried off and stashed.



foxtrapper said:


> But only when they eat it. When they do dig into hoarded winter stores, then they may well die. But until that time, they will eat outside the hoard and their population will thrive and grow.


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## majik (Feb 23, 2005)

The SAFE for pets water bucket rat/mouse trap. I've used it - it works!
I put a 2X4 board as a ramp for the critters to climb to the top of the bucket.
On line said:


> Last year, we filled a plastic garbage can with water in the barns, smeared some peanut butter in the underside of the lid - which the rats has consideratley chewed holes into already - and we caught 27 rats in a week...


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## tinknal (May 21, 2004)

foxtrapper said:


> But only when they eat it. When they do dig into hoarded winter stores, then they may well die. But until that time, they will eat outside the hoard and their population will thrive and grow.


Well, Ive fought this fight before with rats. I fought them for months in the house, killing them one at a time. They just kept coming. Fed them a whole tub of TomCat and 2 bars of Just One Bite. Lights out. Haven't seen one since and it's been about 2 years. I believe that they left a bunch in their holes and any new ones moving in are eating it.


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## fixer1958 (Dec 12, 2005)

I rigged up a mouse trap before using a 5 gallon bucket 1/3 filled with water attached to a 30 mile fence charger. The ground was a metal strap about 2/3 up the bucket. The positive was a 2" brass disc smeared with peanut butter above that a couple of inches. A 1x6 was the ramp.
Got about a dozen mice. Not really that effective but I think a rat got in there because it was mostly destroyed one morning. Probably got nailed from the fence charger and was bouncing around in the bucket.
Good experiment.


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## snowshoehair (Jul 3, 2008)

I had heard that you need to put water out for the little buggers if you use poison. Don't know why or how that works, but I can put the poison out and it disappears...I don't find dead mice unless I give them water too. Maybe if there's water they will eat and drink where they find the bait?


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## Txrider (Jun 25, 2010)

clong said:


> Active ingredient is bromadiolone. A list of symptoms: Bleeding problems
> Hemorrhage - severe poisoning
> Eye irritation
> Easy bruising
> ...


I believe it's actually a lot worse. One of those two is a lot worse for other critters eating the dead mouse anyway..


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## ChristieAcres (Apr 11, 2009)

Or do what we did...adopted an adult dog, who just happened to be very smart and we trained him to kill MICE AND RATS (he bludgeons them when he catches them). Then, we adopted two outdoor cats, who we didn't have to train. They are mother/daughter hunting machines, sweet, affectionate, but vicious killers. I avoid using poison here.


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## WolfWalksSoftly (Aug 13, 2004)

If you wrap wire around the bait (some have holes) and attach the wire to something solid, the bait won't be dragged off.


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## stanb999 (Jan 30, 2005)

All the contention... Let them take it. Don't let them take it.


Both work and you have to do both IMHO. The most effective method is like the op did. They discovered the mother load of food! Took it home and fed the children.


The only thing I'd suggest is getting more and keeping them in place.


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## Wild Blue (Oct 10, 2011)

mom in oklahoma said:


> I have been told recently that all the poison does is dehydrate them, supposedely(sp) if the cat eats a mouse and has access to water the cat should be fine. I was just wondering if anyone knew for certain? maybe it depends on the kind of bait used.


Like Minelson, I too work at a vet hospital and can tell you this is just not true. Most rodent poisons have properties that destroy red blood cells. The animal basically dies from massive internal hemorrhaging. This goes for the pets and other wildlife who eat the toxic flesh of the poisoned rodents.


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## DryHeat (Nov 11, 2010)

We have a constant pack rat problem in this area, too. Last time I put out the D-Con granules (generally make it only in outside storage sheds) they disappeared overnight, too. I try that route only rarely since I'm afraid critters like owls, hawks, bobcats could see ill or dying rodents staggering around in the open and get a damaging or lethal dose themselves by normal predation, not to mention by any rare outside housecat. My normal control method is to use our four Havahart traps, setting them baited with bread around outside house edges when droppings and nesting activity start appearing. Being held in one of those traps allows a nice clean head-shot with a pellet gun and creates a carcass that can be pitched out in the scrub that won't harm any scavenging wildlife. I've found Ace Hardware has occasional sales for "any one item under $30 half-price" that covers the smallish Havaharts for right under $15 cost. Those things are extremely useful in several sizes (I consider them a prep item, too) and indestructible for small rodents. (For a boar raccoon for example, maybe not so much! lol)


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## meanwhile (Dec 13, 2007)

Thank you everyone for all the good tips and comments. We did not find the 32 bait bars yesterday. The boys searched the crawlspace in one section where we thought they might have a nest. Under our house is a night-mare to search since the heat ducts take up the space plus there is not much head room. 

We have 2 dogs and 2 cats and are feeding them extra food right now so they are not hungry enough to eat a rat but......that may be just wishful thinking since all four of them are pigs and would probably eat anything they find.......

Nothing ate or took any of the poison in the basement last night. The same Dcon is there plus the 2 Tom Cat solid chunks. So - it would seem that whatever took the 32 chunks last week is gone or dead? 

What is bothering me is that fact that there is no nasty "dead" smell in the basement nor under the crawlspace areas. I opened all four crawlspace access holes and sniffed and it does not stink. That leads me to believe whatever ate it and died, did so some place else. Which.......might mean the rat also took the 32 chunks of bait outside the house too.

We are going to do a search outside today. Thank you.


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## bee (May 12, 2002)

I had a medium to large size rodent chewing up my plastic feed bucket trying to get to the goats grain. I got one of those green block baits(Tomcat) with a hole down the middle and wired it to the bucket handle. I also put several loose pieces under the building. It was consumed over several days and now no more chewing. All I found was some green tinged rodent droppings..which I carefully removed from around the goat stalls. I don't think a picky eater like a goat would eat them but I did not want to take a chance. I can use the pellets in my basement but won't put them anywhere else that rodents may move them into reach of my poultry. I do worry about secondary poisoning of the barn/wild cats(I don't own any cats and only one house dog)but poison works.


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## Judy in IN (Nov 28, 2003)

You can still get the pellets. I bought two buckets of poison for a bad infestation of rats. They were gone the next day, and so were the rats. 

There was info at the feed company as to which poisons affected dogs and cats through the dead animal. That worked fine.

Unfortunately, I bought another bucket at Big R. No information available there, and I lost my dog from eating rats.


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## calliemoonbeam (Aug 7, 2007)

Yes, I feel bad about the possible life loss of other animals from the bar bait, but when I finally used it at my place I simply had no other choice. I had tried everything else (except the Havahart traps, didn't know about them at the time), and the rats were literally eating my house! I had to repair wall paneling, insulation, pex lines (live in a mobile), plumbing hoses and plastic pipes, electrical, phone and internet wiring, etc. Plus I had to throw out over a thousand dollars worth of food prep they had destroyed. It was a total nightmare! 

I figure that's why I got my place so cheap, lol, but I was naive and very anxious to get out of a horrible neighborhood where there were gang fights on my lawn, so I got stuck and had to do something. As far as I know, no other animals were poisoned because of it, and the neighbors nearest me said their rat population had gone down as well, so I think I did some good.

I will say, though, that I never had the stink or found any bodies either, so apparently they didn't die on my premises. Afterwards, however, the internet guy found a huge nest under the lowest, hardest to get to corner under my mobile, right under my kitchen. It was disgusting, ick, and almost unbelievabel the things that were in there! So be careful if you can, but the important thing is to get rid of them!


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## tinknal (May 21, 2004)

minelson, my guess is that whatever got the bait lives in a hole or tunnel, that that is where the bait is, and that is where the bodies are. 

Notice any of those big blue bottle or green bottle flies around?


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## GoldenCityMuse (Apr 15, 2009)

Pack Rats are VERY destructive. When we had several cats at our place in NM, they really kept them down.


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## meanwhile (Dec 13, 2007)

We searched under another part of the house today but could not find anything. I also went around the whole house looking to see if there were any places that looked like a rat traveled in / out of there. But...nothing. 

A man just bought an old shack just down the road from us. It is the closest house to us. He started to gut and repair the place and the people helping him reported HUGE HUGE HUGE rat nests in every wall and that when they took down one wall, they all had to RUN due to the smell and vapors of rat urine. They could not work in there for a week to let it air out. They said rats ran everywhere.

So - those rats must have come down the road and are here. 

Nothing has eaten the fresh DCon pellets I set out and I set two of the Tom Cat chunks near it also and nothing has touched that yet either. My older boys had to leave for a job and will be back later in week so they will search under the house some more.

I am feeding the cats and dogs extra food in hopes they won't eat a rat if they find a dead body outside.

This is frustrating. Thanks for the tips.


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## tinknal (May 21, 2004)

Could be tree dwelling rats too. Do you have squirrels or chipmunks?


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## meanwhile (Dec 13, 2007)

We do have both squirrels and chipmunks - but how could they have gotten in the basement and how and where would they have hauled off 32 chunks of bait? Don't they live in trees? Surely they could not haul the chunks size pieces of bait up a tree? Maybe one .....but not 32 chunks?

We searched around in the basement some more and found where something has eaten part of 3 old wax starter logs. We had them in an old box from years ago and it had paper in it and we pulled the paper out to toss it in trash and saw the wax logs. Bites had been taken all over 2 of them and eaten off most of the paper. The 3rd one was only bitten in a few places. 

So - Rats? Or would mice eat a wax log?


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## twomeal (Dec 3, 2010)

No help here, but I sure would like an update if ever you figure this out. This thread is very interesting to me. Sorry for your troubles, meanwhile.


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## texastami (Sep 13, 2002)

We had the same thing happen to us.... thought it was a mouse, but turns out to be a pack rat!! 

We only bought 6 bars... and they were all gone the next day... EVERY ONE of them!! We were expecting him to take one...  and every day, we would have more garden damage...  ARGH! i could hear him in the wall.... driving me cRAZY!!

BUT..... we bought more bait, and waited 4 weeks... then we put out two more pieces.... THEY ARE STILL THERE.... and its been quiet for almost 2 months... 

I figure he tapped his "stash" about 1 month after he hauled them off and well... 


ADIOS!!


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## texican (Oct 4, 2003)

Imho, the sticks are the only way to go.

I've found nests with piles of the pellets... they pouch em, take em back to the nest, and eat and die at their leisure.

With a stick, they have to nibble off tiny bits of it, it gets into their stomachs, and they die.... they can't go a caching it.


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## tinknal (May 21, 2004)

meanwhile said:


> We do have both squirrels and chipmunks - but how could they have gotten in the basement and how and where would they have hauled off 32 chunks of bait?


my mom once had a chipmunk get in her house. It filled a dresser drawer full of dog food!


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## meanwhile (Dec 13, 2007)

Sticks? Texican? What sticks? I buy the bait at Lowe's or Walmart and don't remember seeing any like a stick? 

And...I used to think the pellets type was the best since I thought they had to eat it in place and could not haul it off? But...can they cram the pellets in their mouth and still take it off to the nest? 

I know I don't like the looks of the marble size bait. I think that could easily be carried off to any place. 

A larger solid stick or something that they cannot haul off sounds like a good idea. What is the name of such a thing and where could I find it? 

Thank you.


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## am1too (Dec 30, 2009)

meanwhile said:


> We do have both squirrels and chipmunks - but how could they have gotten in the basement and how and where would they have hauled off 32 chunks of bait? Don't they live in trees? Surely they could not haul the chunks size pieces of bait up a tree? Maybe one .....but not 32 chunks?
> 
> We searched around in the basement some more and found where something has eaten part of 3 old wax starter logs. We had them in an old box from years ago and it had paper in it and we pulled the paper out to toss it in trash and saw the wax logs. Bites had been taken all over 2 of them and eaten off most of the paper. The 3rd one was only bitten in a few places.
> 
> So - Rats? Or would mice eat a wax log?


Yeppers and they will eat bar soap to!


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