# Why are the Ex's Boyfriends jealous ?



## AmericanStand (Jul 29, 2014)

I'm the flip side if a question Laura asked. 
I tend to stay friends with my Ex's. Sometimes very good friends , my best friend is a Ex. 
Often when they date the boyfriends have a problem with me. 

Why ?

I've gotta be the safest guy they encounter in a day. 
I'm a certified we aren't gonna happen !


----------



## whiterock (Mar 26, 2003)

They probably think you aren't just an ex.


----------



## RideBarefoot (Jun 29, 2008)

I think whiterock's is the average assumption. 

I met someone off Farmer's Only once, we hit it off great and our goals and dreams were in sync. He said he and his ex were best friends; my spidey sense went off but I thought that was good for the two teenagers. Distance involved (for me, ex lived in same town). Everything was cruising for almost a year- until I found out they were still sleeping together.


----------



## AmericanStand (Jul 29, 2014)

If a ex was a best friend and we found the sex exciting why would they be a ex. ?
Ride barefoot any idea why they were bringing you into the relationship ?


----------



## WolfWalksSoftly (Aug 13, 2004)

A threat as competition. ..Go figure. I don't want to be good friends with my ex. I don't wish her anything bad..I just would rather not have anything to do with her.


----------



## Raeven (Oct 11, 2011)

There are a lot of people who don't believe men and women can be "just" friends. I've known quite a few folks who think like that. This perspective makes it very hard if not impossible to accept a friendship between exes.

I have quite a number of male friends, just friends, including one or two exes with whom my relationships remain cordial. Some of the friends started out in a more romantic way, but we ended as friends for one reason or another. My late husband had a little trouble with this concept when we first got together, but as he observed me with my male friends, he soon accepted the truth of what I was telling him: Friends only. As I pointed out to him, if any of those friends were the right one, I wouldn't have needed to import him from Australia. 

I accepted his friendships with women as well. When his ex-wife came to the States, we invited her to stay with us -- and that was no problem at all. His ex and I got on very well and that made things much easier for his daughter. I quite liked her, even though it was a little disconcerting how much we had in common. He _almost_ got it right the first time. 

Again, I think it depends on the people involved. Some can handle "friendship only" relationships with exes, and some can't. For me, it's a deal breaker. Any man with whom I am in a relationship can _count on_ that I won't be in another relationship behind his back -- and I demand the same of him. That means accepting my friendships with other men for exactly what they are. I would never be comfortable with a mate who trusted me so little.

I agree with you, *AmericanStand*. If the ex was so fabulous, why are they an ex?


----------



## Nsoitgoes (Jan 31, 2016)

AmericanStand said:


> If a ex was a best friend and we found the sex exciting why would they be a ex. ?
> Ride barefoot any idea why they were bringing you into the relationship ?


Because some exes are all that and a bag of chips as long as you don't have to actually live with them. My first DH was a really good friend as long as we weren't married.


----------



## FarmboyBill (Aug 19, 2005)

Me and X have said many times that marriage ruined a really great relationship.


----------



## newfieannie (Dec 24, 2006)

I have a male friend. had him all through my first marriage. could marry him tomorrow as far as he's concerned. all I ever wanted though was friendship and he respects that. when my brother comes he's going to spend a week here also. I introduced them years ago and they have also remained friends. ~Georgia


----------



## RideBarefoot (Jun 29, 2008)

AmericanStand said:


> If a ex was a best friend and we found the sex exciting why would they be a ex. ?
> Ride barefoot any idea why they were bringing you into the relationship ?


When I confronted him on it, I didn't get a straight answer, so who knows. I didn't ever speak to her.

Not sure if it was "have your cake and eat it too" on his part, or "I don't want to be married to you, but you're not going to be involved with anyone else" on her part. 

I think the former. He wouldn't FB friend me.


----------



## COSunflower (Dec 4, 2006)

I am friends with my ex and also with his current wife. We remained friends during our divorce and even went out for a celebration dinner after we signed the papers.  We both realized that we had grown apart as our goals in life were way different. We've been divorced for almost 11 years and would help each other out in a heart beat if we needed to.


----------



## Agriculture (Jun 8, 2015)

It's a normal thing to be concerned about. If that unspoken barrier between friendship and sex has been broken once, it is very easy for it to happen again. All it takes is the right situation. Add a drink or two to reduce the inhibition even further, and/or the availability of the other partner when the urge hits, instead of you, then that's all she wrote. With no intent to rekindle the previous relationship it is much easier to justify it, thinking that one little roll in the hay just for fun and not meaning anything else won't hurt anyone.

Think about how many people cheat with a stranger without the spouse knowing, then think about how much easier it would be with an ex. I wouldn't want a partner to remain friends, as in any sort of regular contact with an ex, including or especially fb. It would be one thing to remain friendly and on good terms, and say hello and chat when they bump into each other in the supermarket, but any type of regular contact or association and you are just asking for trouble. Wait until you start having arguments. When yours are still fresh in your partner's head, those with the ex are fading memories. Many people seek their friends for support during those times. A friend that you once had sex with, look out. It's even easier if or when the ex is not in a relationship. No matter how much you trust your partner, or want to, things happen, biology happens.

Women especially want to rely on feelings, the feeling of trust in this case. That's noble, but the problem is that feelings are easily swayed depending on the circumstances of the moment. If they weren't you would always be happy, or always sad, but feelings change like the wind.


----------



## Laura Zone 5 (Jan 13, 2010)

AmericanStand said:


> I'm the flip side if a question Laura asked.
> I tend to stay friends with my Ex's. Sometimes very good friends , my best friend is a Ex.
> Often when they date the boyfriends have a problem with me.
> 
> ...



This is a foreign concept to me as I only have 1 ex.....

If I was dating a man who was still hanging out w/ his ex, doing yard work, working on her car, etc. that's fine with me.

IF he and I decided to become engaged / married?
That would have to stop.
She needs to find her own husband or hire a handy man!

All of my friends (w/ the exception of 2) were guys. 
When I got married those friendships came to a close because I felt it was disrespectful to my then husband to hang out w/ a bunch of guys while married. 
They were not ex's, I had not had sex w/ any of them; they were truly, just guy pals. 

As a 'mature' woman, it's not so much 'jealousy' as it is respect.
I never was and still am not a jealous person.......
It's just foolish to be ruled and reigned by 'emotions and feelings'.


----------



## Allen W (Aug 2, 2008)

RideBarefoot said:


> I think whiterock's is the average assumption.
> 
> I met someone off Farmer's Only once, we hit it off great and our goals and dreams were in sync. He said he and his ex were best friends; my spidey sense went off but I thought that was good for the two teenagers. Distance involved (for me, ex lived in same town). Everything was cruising for almost a year- until I found out they were still sleeping together.



"my spidey sense went off"

Always trust the spidey sensor, it doesn't matter if you just met them or have known them for a time. I went for a while thinking my crazy witch detector had broke, but after a while realized I had not paid attention to the warning signs. I pay a lot more attention now and don't trust so easy.


----------



## Nsoitgoes (Jan 31, 2016)

WOW, Agriculture. You seem to be of a suspicious nature. I have had quite a few male friends over my lifetime and I have NEVER been tempted to have sex with any of them. I was totally faithful to my DH in thought and deed for the 35 years we were married and the 38 years we were together.

Conflict resolution in a marriage is probably a predictor of whether or not one or the other partner will stray. If both are able to talk and feel heard, and if both are able to negotiate and compromise as an equal, that goes a long way towards maintaining a good relationship.


----------



## FarmboyBill (Aug 19, 2005)

N Your thinking with a womans mind. Ags thinking with a males mind. You don't have something in you that you try to control telling you that you should try to have sex as often as possible. Men do. Most contain it and live with it. Some, it contains them. When you get old, if you havnt used it, as a man, you lose it, and it don't matter.


----------



## haypoint (Oct 4, 2006)

I dated a gal that had an ex husband and in a small town, it is easier to remain friends. She also had three guy friends that were married. She had lived with one, carpenter working 300 miles from home. She helped keep him from hanging out in the bar, moved out on the few times his wife and kids came up to spend a weekend. Another guy that lived a thousand miles away that she visited in Las Vegas when he was there on business. Saved her hotel costs, just friends. Another guy friend lived 300 miles away. He'd come to town once or twice a year and they'd hang out at the bar and catch up. 

Discovered she was texting each one 20 times a week and calling each one 3-4 times a week. She'd take a trip to see her grandma a few times a year, 20 miles from one of the ex's. Visit an old friend 40 miles from another ex. Planning to fly out to visit parents, with secret side trip to Vegas. She was sleeping with all of them. 

While we were together, she seemed normal. No real signs that these friends were in her life daily or that she was sneaking around with these guys while these guys were cheating on their wives.

When I figured out what was going on, she admitted it and wanted a second chance, but I figured the problem too deep to change and any hope for trust gone.

An Ex can be a friend for some, but often it can also be FWB.


----------



## debd0712 (Aug 23, 2005)

I can see being continuing to be friends with an ex, though it is friends only. I can not see ever being in a FWB relationship, or being anything other than simply friends with an ex. They are an ex for good reasons, even if the relationship ended amicably. If I move on to a different relationship, I expect to be trusted, and expect to be able to trust in return. Yes, this trust has to be earned on both sides, but to me it must exist, otherwise no relationship. One man woman here, and not remotely interested in ever trying anything else.


----------



## haypoint (Oct 4, 2006)

I thought I had a one man woman, discovered she was a one man at a time woman.
Hard to build or earn trust. Once you've been cheated on, you tend to either be overly suspicious or out of a need to not drag that emotional baggage into the current relationship, you turn down your gut feeling and ignore suspicions. 

Having ex lovers as friends clouds the new relationship. People re-marry and old relationships can be re-kindled.


----------



## Raeven (Oct 11, 2011)

I think what&#8217;s at issue here is how one defines &#8216;friendship.&#8217; To me, and the male friends I have in my life, being a friend includes not putting the other person in a bad or uncomfortable situation with their spouse/mate/significant other. It means respecting the boundaries of friendship *utterly*. Biology is always a factor, but one of our most fundamental characteristics as humans is the ability to think about the potential consequences arising out of our actions. As a true friend, I would never, under any circumstances, put my male friends in jeopardy with their mates by succumbing to any momentary biological urge.

Bottom line, if you&#8217;re going to let yourself play with that little flame until it blows up into a conflagration, then I submit you are being less than honest with yourself about the status of your &#8220;friendship.&#8221; Either you respect your friend enough to not put her in an uncomfortable situation &#8211; or you don&#8217;t.

With respect to any male friend of mine being a stand-in handyman, I&#8217;ve never had that expectation of them. They have often offered, and I won&#8217;t say no &#8211; but it is far from a requirement of my friendships with men, any more than I expect my female friends to come over and lend a hand with the laundry or to mop the floors. 

Friendships ebb and flow depending on the changing circumstances, and all parties must be considerate about this if the friendship is to continue. This includes accommodating a new love interest in their lives.

As I have often said, I *aspire* to friends with benefits. If I ever find another best friend to whom I am physically attracted, I&#8217;ll work hard to keep him forever.


----------



## Nsoitgoes (Jan 31, 2016)

FarmboyBill said:


> N Your thinking with a womans mind. Ags thinking with a males mind. You don't have something in you that you try to control telling you that you should try to have sex as often as possible. Men do. Most contain it and live with it. Some, it contains them. When you get old, if you havnt used it, as a man, you lose it, and it don't matter.


Oh, please. Not the old "It's a man's prerogative to have sex with who he wants whenever he wants so, Ladies, just give in gracefully and don't forget to smile" line.

Men are just as capable of restraining their biological urges as women are. The fact is that they use the "boys will be boys" excuse not to. It is a lot of Bovine Manure.

ETA: and if you think that a man's sex drive is any stronger than a woman's then you have met a pitiful lot of women is all I can say eep:


----------



## whiterock (Mar 26, 2003)

Friends with ex can be a problem. However, I taught school for over 30 years and as a result I was around more women than men. I had some strong and true friendships with many of them without any romantic intentions. Most were married some not. After my divorce I did begin a relationship with one of the single ones, it went well for about 5 years then ended. Still visit, call and dine with some of them when the opportunity allows.

I might add that I also had opportunities to have more intimate relationships with some of the women at those different schools I worked at, but I didn't while I was married.


----------



## haypoint (Oct 4, 2006)

whiterock said:


> Friends with ex can be a problem. However, I taught school for over 30 years and as a result I was around more women than men. I had some strong and true friendships with many of them without any romantic intentions. Most were married some not. After my divorce I did begin a relationship with one of the single ones, it went well for about 5 years then ended. Still visit, call and dine with some of them when the opportunity allows.
> 
> I might add that I also had opportunities to have more intimate relationships with some of the women at those different schools I worked at, but I didn't while I was married.


I think you summed it up quite well. In the first paragraph, you tell how you can have numerous friendships with women without any romantic intentions (your words).
But in the next paragraph, you admit to having multiple sexual opportunities with these women. Because of your fidelity, you passed on those opportunities. But once you became legally available, your opportunities evolved to reality. While you were married, did you ever put two and two together? I mean, did it occur to you that if your wife kicked you out that you wouldn&#8217;t be sleeping under a bridge? Ever rank them in relation to first choice, second choice? Some might refer to it as a subconscious escape plan.
Can I assume that some of these FWB opportunities were with either/both married women or women that knew you were married?
In general, does immersion in social situations that provide easy access to adultery help or hurt your current relationship? Do you realize how rationalization affects your answer?
If I had a shoe that was hurting my foot, I&#8217;d be more inclined to repair the shoe if there weren&#8217;t a few shoe stores on the way home. Same with relationships.


----------



## haypoint (Oct 4, 2006)

Nsoitgoes said:


> Oh, please. Not the old "It's a man's prerogative to have sex with who he wants whenever he wants so, Ladies, just give in gracefully and don't forget to smile" line.
> 
> Men are just as capable of restraining their biological urges as women are. The fact is that they use the "boys will be boys" excuse not to. It is a lot of Bovine Manure.
> 
> ETA: and if you think that a man's sex drive is any stronger than a woman's then you have met a pitiful lot of women is all I can say eep:


While we are dispelling sexual myths, can we throw out the myth that guys cheat on their gals but gals seldom cheat? That defies simple principals of math.


----------



## AmericanStand (Jul 29, 2014)

haypoint said:


> While we are dispelling sexual myths, can we throw out the myth that guys cheat on their gals but gals seldom cheat? That defies simple principals of math.



Actually women cheat a LOT more than men they just don't call what they do cheating.


----------



## Nsoitgoes (Jan 31, 2016)

It was not my intention to suggest that either gender is more or less likely to cheat. It would be interesting to know what changes in a relationship to make a partner cheat and if it differs by gender.


----------



## whiterock (Mar 26, 2003)

The opportunities were both married and single, more coworkers than friends, and they approached me, and I don't consider myself a hunk by any means.

Did I look at some as prospective partners, I did look at some as being worthy wives, not as playthings,. 

The one I had the relationship with came after me when she found out about my divorce, and I was receptive, since my ex decided she was a lesbian and we hadn't had relations in years.


----------



## haypoint (Oct 4, 2006)

Nsoitgoes said:


> It was not my intention to suggest that either gender is more or less likely to cheat. It would be interesting to know what changes in a relationship to make a partner cheat and if it differs by gender.


Recently some so called expert stated that guys are more apt to cheat without regard to the condition of his current relationship, physical pleasure without a future plan. While women are more apt to cheat if unhappy with current relationship, hinting that there is a sort of stepping stone or exit strategy. I really don't know.
I'd be inclined to believe that guys will cheat with a change in the physical part of a relationship, while women will cheat due to a change in the emotional part of a relationship. "Not getting any at home" vs " We never talk".


----------



## Nsoitgoes (Jan 31, 2016)

That was my impression from talking with friends. Most of the women felt that their husbands took them for granted, did not court them or woo them. They felt emotionally ignored. Very easy, then, to fall for the new man who gives them his attention and makes them feel desirable.

I cannot speak for men. Though a couple of my friends were totally blindsided by their husbands affairs. They thought their marriages were solid on all fronts.


----------



## Clem (Apr 12, 2016)

Every situation is different. Being a realist, I deal with what's on my plate now, not what it all means. I've been accused of having no compassion, but facts are facts. When it's raining diarrhea, don't stand there wondering why, take cover. In the long run, why don't matter.


----------



## haypoint (Oct 4, 2006)

Nsoitgoes said:


> That was my impression from talking with friends. Most of the women felt that their husbands took them for granted, did not court them or woo them. They felt emotionally ignored. Very easy, then, to fall for the new man who gives them his attention and makes them feel desirable.
> 
> I cannot speak for men. Though a couple of my friends were totally blindsided by their husbands affairs. They thought their marriages were solid on all fronts.


First a disclaimer: I recognize exceptions to every situation.

I've heard it said that men engage in romance to get sex. While women will engage in sex as a link to more romance.

So a new guy will turn up the romance to get sex with a new woman. That is very attractive to the woman who's partner is skipping the salad and going for the main course. 


Guys, being evolutionally wired to seek out a variety of women, don't have any restrictive requirements and are attracted to that population segment known as "women that I have not yet slept with".

Living in a civil society, both men and women temper their urges.


----------



## Laura Zone 5 (Jan 13, 2010)

I don't get it.
I know a woman who was not only emotionally ignored, but abused.
She had oodles of chances to choose to cheat; even men who were friends w her husband. 
They could see, and knew this woman was not treated the way she should have been.
Dogs, and well meaning men alike can sniff that out a 100 miles away.
It's like chumming the water.........

But not only did she not choose to cheat, she did not put herself in situations that would make it easier, or possible; she went so far as to not 'hug' (as a greeting) men, she only shook hands.
Her fear was she would enjoy a genuine embrace, and her emotions would over rule her logic and morals.

So it blows me away when I hear folks say "they just couldn't help it" or "it's part of who we are" or "men/women are wired this way".
I think it's all crap. 

I do think a majority of women cheat because they want to feel loved, appreciated, adored, admired, cherished, etc.
Unfortunately, none of that is true, if you are cheating to get it.


----------



## haypoint (Oct 4, 2006)

Laura Zone 5 said:


> I don't get it.
> I know a woman who was not only emotionally ignored, but abused.
> She had oodles of chances to choose to cheat; even men who were friends w her husband.
> They could see, and knew this woman was not treated the way she should have been.
> ...


I know a few women that were in bad marriages. Wasn't always that way, but over time the marriages turned sour. They tell me that they lost interest in sex (refer to earlier sex without romance comments). Sort of stopped thinking about it and were fine without it. Perhaps as some men claim "If you don't use it, you lose it.", they lost their interest. Other men looking for sex might not rekindle the emotional flame. As you have suggested, avoiding a hug insured the flame would not be rekindled.

I'll go ahead and roll over a rock better left unturned. Could it be that this woman never had much interest in sex and after marriage lost her interest completely? Doesn't excuse being emotionally ignored or emotionally abused. No woman ever has to have sex unless she wants it. But.... I've heard it said the two adults cannot share an apartment for more than a month if they aren't having sex. Some believe that we are more apt to overlook minor irritations if intimate. IDK.

I have no doubt that sexual urges vary from person to person and ebb and flow in various stages of our lives. Just as one person can have a single beer and not have another for a decade, while another person cannot stop until they are drunk. Many, perhaps most people, can remain monogamous throughout their marriage, others would screw a rock pile if they thought there was a snake in it. I'm not going to judge.

I'm not wired to crave booze. Some people seem to be. I crave food, human touch and sex. The town drunk and I get along in the community better when we reign back our cravings.


----------



## FarmboyBill (Aug 19, 2005)

N, youll NEVER make me believe the same % if women have the same highth of sex drive as men. 
IF
its possible that that's true, then women must be able to control theirs much easier than men.
Men make idiots out of them selves conrtinually trying to get to have sex. NEVER but MABEY once or twice in nearly 69yrs have I seen women that way.
ALSO
Woman married to a man, she lets herself gradually go to heck in a hand basket, so he does too. He starts looking at other women and fixes himself up some. She finally has had enough, and fixes herself up and gets another guy. Him, Hes usually just happy if a woman notices hes still alive. Hes not all that interested in divorce, cause he knows it will cost him plenty, and he likes it the way it is at home, he just wants a good looking woman to take notice of him.
That means, sometimes, just getting a gal interested enough to speak, or meet once or twice, BUT much more than that, his conscience starts telling him hes heading for trouble, the like of which he cant see the end or comprehend, so he drops her. Is that a good thing. NO, BUT I know it happens. Don't ask me how I know.


----------



## Laura Zone 5 (Jan 13, 2010)

What just happened?


----------



## roadless (Sep 9, 2006)

I have a male friend that seems to not hear me when I say we will only be friends.
It is becoming uncomfortable. 
For example he offered to mow my lawn, I said no thanks, I'd take care of it.
He did it while I was at work and seemed surprised when I wasn't all yahoo about it.
He seems to be trying to act like we are a couple when I thought I was clear we are not.


----------



## Laura Zone 5 (Jan 13, 2010)

THAT is not cool.
I'm sorry that is happening to you.


----------



## Raeven (Oct 11, 2011)

roadless said:


> I have a male friend that seems to not hear me when I say we will only be friends.
> It is becoming uncomfortable.
> For example he offered to mow my lawn, I said no thanks, I'd take care of it.
> He did it while I was at work and seemed surprised when I wasn't all yahoo about it.
> He seems to be trying to act like we are a couple when I thought I was clear we are not.


You've got it right. That there is someone who is trying to put you in a particular role by manipulating you. His actions might be construed as altruistic and kind *only* if you hadn't clearly expressed your declination of his offer. But you did, so his "kindness" is not motivated from a pure place. Men who disregard your express wishes are not showing you the respect of an equal. It's as if they are saying, "There, there, little lady. I know what's best in this situation for you." Urrghh!

Friendships ought not make you uncomfortable.

Check yourself and make sure you're not giving mixed signals (I doubt you are). If you can say forthrightly that you are not, then it's probably time to gently cool the friendship. He is not bringing an honest heart to the situation, and the discomfort between you will only get worse.

Just my opinion, obviously.

Has he started leaving some of his stuff around your place yet?  (I refer to this as "peeing in the corners.")


----------



## Laura Zone 5 (Jan 13, 2010)

FarmboyBill said:


> N, youll NEVER make me believe the same % if women have the same highth of sex drive as men.
> IF
> its possible that that's true, then women must be able to control theirs much easier than men.
> Men make idiots out of them selves conrtinually trying to get to have sex.


Bill, I tried to let it go.
I tried so hard not to reply.......I am showing my lack of self control.....

Ok, some men, make idiots out of themselves to get sex, just like some women have no self respect in hooking a man.
Fair enough.
Not all men, not even most men are like this.
PLEASE say that the greater percentage goes to good men, who have self control and morals.
Please.
Help me Obi Wan, You're my only hope.




> NEVER but MABEY once or twice in nearly 69yrs have I seen women that way.
> ALSO
> Woman married to a man, she lets herself gradually go to heck in a hand basket, so he does too. He starts looking at other women and fixes himself up some. She finally has had enough, and fixes herself up and gets another guy. Him, Hes usually just happy if a woman notices hes still alive. Hes not all that interested in divorce, cause he knows it will cost him plenty, and he likes it the way it is at home, he just wants a good looking woman to take notice of him.


When a couple 'lets themselves go' that is a sign of a deeper issue.
When one or both no longer care for themselves, and no longer cares what their spouse thinks? 
Big problems.

You can't have it both ways.
Either men are just looking for sex and they don't care how the 'package is wrapped' (IE what she looks like) OR men want a good looking woman to worship them.
One or the other. 

If men want their cake and eat it too, they have to take the time to get out the recipe, gather the ingredients, mix it up, bake it and THEN they can eat. 
Even an Easy Bake Oven requires a little work.......
Sounds like you're saying men are lazy and just want hot women to fawn all over them and they put in ZERO effort.......

There's no possible way he (or she) can "like the way things are at home" and go out on the prowl. That is a 100% contridiction.



> That means, sometimes, just getting a gal interested enough to speak, or meet once or twice, BUT much more than that, his conscience starts telling him hes heading for trouble, the like of which he cant see the end or comprehend, so he drops her. Is that a good thing. NO, BUT I know it happens. Don't ask me how I know.


Again, this cannot be 'normal' thinking. 
If it is, I may start batting for the other team.:huh:


----------



## roadless (Sep 9, 2006)

"Has he started leaving some of his stuff around your place yet? (I refer to this as "peeing in the corners.")"

No Raven he has not, but tried to. 
You have a wonderful way of expressing what I was feeling.
Thanks!


----------



## AmericanStand (Jul 29, 2014)

Laura Zone 5 said:


> I do think a majority of women cheat because they want to feel loved, appreciated, adored, admired, cherished, etc.
> Unfortunately, none of that is true, if you are cheating to get it.



Go back and read what you wrote. 
The key word in there is feel. 
That means it doesn't have to be real they just need the feelings. 
And
That's why women can cheat more than men the cheat is in the feelings.


----------



## AmericanStand (Jul 29, 2014)

Anybody care to define cheating ? 
So we can all be on the same page ?


----------



## FarmboyBill (Aug 19, 2005)

Laura, I liked the way things were at home. I got sex whenever I wanted it at home. I came home to my family ALWAYS, BUT, I might take time before coming home to stand on the corner where the busses let the kids out and check out the school girls.
Wasn't looking for anything other than that one might look at me and smile. That's all I wanted and thats all I ever got. I was in my early/mid 20s then. Just wanted to feel the quick rush when a good looking girl looked at me and smiled. Taint saying it was right. Just sayin it was.


----------



## Raeven (Oct 11, 2011)

AmericanStand said:


> Anybody care to define cheating ?
> So we can all be on the same page ?


 That&#8217;s an interesting question, *AmericanStand*. For me, the line is very clear. It&#8217;s all in your head and your heart. Your body only follows what&#8217;s happening in those places first.

I think some people delude themselves that it's only cheating if something physical occurs. I disagree. Ask the wife whose husband has been having an online "affair" with another woman for a couple years if the agony in her heart feels any different.

What do you think?


----------



## haypoint (Oct 4, 2006)

The "Ladder Theory" describes the difference between men and women as far as relationships. Guys rank every woman by attractiveness, they are ranked by their place on the ladder. Women have two ladders. One for guys she likes as a friend and the other is guys she is attracted to, each ranked by their place on the ladder. A woman can like a guy friend that is high on her friend ladder, than a guy low on her other ladder. 
The videos are numerous. You can get the idea by watching the first two.
[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pHZTO-7Cg84[/ame]

It might help explain to your close male friend how he is never getting off the friend ladder and onto the other ladder. Guys, only having one ladder might not understand their place in your ladders.


----------



## tiffnzacsmom (Jan 26, 2006)

I'm good friends with all but two of my exes, my guy and I even tend to vacation with one. If you aren't friends with any of your exes then I see that as a bit of a problem. I'd prefer my partner be able to be an adult if a romantic relationship isn't working, be honest about and split in a manner that is honorable and friendly. If every girl a guy used to date is crazy I wouldn't date him and I'd tell my guy friends to stay away from women who only dated jerks.


----------



## RideBarefoot (Jun 29, 2008)

roadless said:


> I have a male friend that seems to not hear me when I say we will only be friends.
> It is becoming uncomfortable.
> For example he offered to mow my lawn, I said no thanks, I'd take care of it.
> He did it while I was at work and seemed surprised when I wasn't all yahoo about it.
> He seems to be trying to act like we are a couple when I thought I was clear we are not.


Did he have permission to be on your property while you were gone? If not, then he was trespassing.


----------



## roadless (Sep 9, 2006)

Technically he was trespassing but that really isn't my concern as of yet.
I need to have another talk with him.
It's awkward but necessary.


----------



## Laura Zone 5 (Jan 13, 2010)

AmericanStand said:


> Go back and read what you wrote.
> The key word in there is feel.
> That means it doesn't have to be real they just need the feelings.
> And
> That's why women can cheat more than men the cheat is in the feelings.


You are right. I chose the wrong words.
Women *want to KNOW, by a mans ACTIONS *that she is cherished, honored, loved, etc.
Yes. MOST not all MOST women are 'feelings' based.....heck, I'd say most humans are 'feelings based'.

Men want *to KNOW by a womans ACTIONS* that he is respected, wanted, needed, enough.

When men and women, who have no anchored set of morals, do not 'feel' cherished, loved, wanted, needed, because they are now SHOWN in action and in deed..........they instead of doing the work with the one they took vows, they take the easy way out and go with their 'feelings' and cheat.



AmericanStand said:


> Anybody care to define cheating ?
> So we can all be on the same page ?


Jesus said "If you so much as LOOK at another woman with lust in your eyes, you have committed adultery"

Cheating is when your heart, eyes, mind and/or hands do anything with another person that is not your spouse.

Cheating is deception. 
Swindle, mislead, unfaithful, trickery. 
Dishonest, fraud, to violate rules intentionally.


----------



## Laura Zone 5 (Jan 13, 2010)

FarmboyBill said:


> Laura, I liked the way things were at home. I got sex whenever I wanted it at home. I came home to my family ALWAYS, BUT, I might take time before coming home to stand on the corner where the busses let the kids out and check out the school girls.
> Wasn't looking for anything other than that one might look at me and smile. That's all I wanted and thats all I ever got. I was in my early/mid 20s then. Just wanted to feel the quick rush when a good looking girl looked at me and smiled. Taint saying it was right. Just sayin it was.


I cannot express in words strong enough that are allowed how disgusting this is. 
I feel like I need to wash my eyes with bleach.

Sorry bill, that's the last straw.


----------



## Nsoitgoes (Jan 31, 2016)

roadless said:


> I have a male friend that seems to not hear me when I say we will only be friends.
> It is becoming uncomfortable.
> For example he offered to mow my lawn, I said no thanks, I'd take care of it.
> He did it while I was at work and seemed surprised when I wasn't all yahoo about it.
> He seems to be trying to act like we are a couple when I thought I was clear we are not.


*That, to me, would be downright scary. It is manipulative and controlling. Two things that should be red flags for anyone. Boundaries need to be clearly defined and he is apparently ignoring them. Yes, you need to have words with him. Loud and clear words.*



FarmboyBill said:


> N, youll NEVER make me believe the same % if women have the same highth of sex drive as men.
> 
> *MOST women are very sexual beings. If you actually bothered to talk to one instead of whatever it is you do, you would know that. It's just that many men haven't a clue how to access those feelings. Even when given a manual they don't bother to read the instructions...*
> 
> ...


If he is getting someone interested or meeting someone else then I doubt he has a conscience telling him he is in trouble. I have not a lot of experience hearing the man's side, but the couple I have listened to didn't really care about anything other than not getting caught. Even that bothered them only because they were worried about being thrown out and losing their creature comforts. Not because of the distress it would cause their spouse.


----------



## haypoint (Oct 4, 2006)

Roadless, I think what you might be seeing is the contrast between how men view women and women view men.
Imagine if every guy you know were categorized on two lists, the best at the top. one list is all the guys you think are attractive and there might be some chemistry. The other list is your friends list, guys that you think of as friends. Zero sexual attraction. Their placement on your friends list is according to how much you enjoy their company. 

A guy at the upper middle of your attractive list might spend the night with you, but even the highest guy on your friends list never will.

But this guy that mowed your lawn thinks that, like him, you have only one list. He is working hard to get higher on your list. He isn't clear that he isn't ever going to be on the attractive list. He is working his way up the friends list, but doesn't understand that he'll never end up where he wants to be.

It is probable that if he understood that you love him like a brother, he wouldn't want to be a friend. He might not need more female friends.

You were wise not to allow him to mow your lawn as he will begin to feel a part of your life and home. Reflect a bit to make sure you aren't allowing him to help you out in other ways. Separate checks at lunch? 

Since most guys have one list, they would see anyone on your friends list as someone that by works, deeds or seniority stands a chance of advancing to the sexual plateau many men aspire to. 

The criteria for getting on the desirable list is complex. Bad boys are often placed there without rational explanation. Even self-sufficient capable women are drawn to a guy that displays confidence and an ability to protect. But taken too far, becomes an egotistical jerk.


----------



## FarmboyBill (Aug 19, 2005)

Didn't say it was a right thing to do, but it happened 40yrs ago. Cant take it back or make amends for it. OR, maybe I am.


----------



## WolfWalksSoftly (Aug 13, 2004)

I don't like lists. They require conditions. Conditions change, love just is. Or should be, but what do I know.


----------



## Laura Zone 5 (Jan 13, 2010)

*That, to me, would be downright scary. It is manipulative and controlling. Two things that should be red flags for anyone. Boundaries need to be clearly defined and he is apparently ignoring them. Yes, you need to have words with him. Loud and clear words.


THIS THIS THIS ^^^^^^^^^

*Super Scary Roadless.......disrespectful, boundary busting, scary.


----------



## Laura Zone 5 (Jan 13, 2010)

WolfWalksSoftly said:


> I don't like lists. They require conditions. Conditions change, love just is. Or should be, but what do I know.



I started a new thread "Unconditional Love" based upon this statement


----------



## roadless (Sep 9, 2006)

Haypoint, thank you for the male perspective. 
I would like to write more but don't have the time now.
I like the brother thing...that is how I view him....that seems to be what I need to say..
We have been out to eat together and I always paid my own way....at my insistence.


----------



## Allen W (Aug 2, 2008)

FarmboyBill said:


> Laura, I liked the way things were at home. I got sex whenever I wanted it at home. I came home to my family ALWAYS, BUT, I might take time before coming home to stand on the corner where the busses let the kids out and check out the school girls.
> Wasn't looking for anything other than that one might look at me and smile. That's all I wanted and thats all I ever got. I was in my early/mid 20s then. Just wanted to feel the quick rush when a good looking girl looked at me and smiled. Taint saying it was right. Just sayin it was.


Bill did you ever run into one of the young girls you was watching later in life?


Met a young lady earlier this year that remembered me from an earlier job she had. Glad she remembered me as a nice guy not some one standing on the street corner watching her. It was nice meeting her again, and would have been awkward if it wasn't a pleasant meeting since she was the doctors nurse. Why she remembered me i don't know, I didn't place her until she talked a bit, but I'll admit it will pick your day up when some young lady half your age remembers you. Downside is I don't think the wife will let me go to the doctor by myself now.


----------



## haypoint (Oct 4, 2006)

roadless said:


> Haypoint, thank you for the male perspective.
> I would like to write more but don't have the time now.
> I like the brother thing...that is how I view him....that seems to be what I need to say..
> We have been out to eat together and I always paid my own way....at my insistence.


That he is insisting to pay for lunch, insisting that he help you more, mow your grass, etc. is a clear sign that he's pushing to be more than just friends. He thinks he's building a relationship, moving himself up on your list of possible mates. Doubt he has a clue that he isn't even on the list.

But don't blame him. Most guys haven't any idea about how women select/rate/list men on separate lists/ladders. If you were marginally attracted to him, just taking it slow, what he is doing is spot on to relationship building.

What you call "out to eat together" he could easily see as out on a dinner date, no matter who pays.

I'm sure you see his time and attention and conversation as just what friends do. Perhaps you enjoy having someone to go out with, instead of eating alone, going to a movie alone or weeding the garden alone. Plus, he's such a willing helper, he enjoys your company, so it's a fair trade? 

If he's looking for a committed relationship and you haven't bothered to set him straight because you don't want to lose him as the brother you never had, you are deceiving him. "I sort of told him that, one time, a while ago, in passing, he said OK" isn't telling him. While you might realize most guys couldn't name 8 colors or identify 6 emotions, you may have forgotten that subtlety is wasted on guys. 

Also, while you have this pretend husband around, you might scare off some hunky husband material that may pass by some day.


----------



## haypoint (Oct 4, 2006)

I'm not going to side with FBB, leering at young girls getting off the bus. However, guys grow up with different experiences than women. So, we can do bad things that we think are not bad things.

In High School, I was a runner, distance running mostly, jogging. Takes a lot of hard work. So, when I'd see a person, male or female, jogging, in an effort to acknowledge the effort, encourage the sport, I'd beep the horn and wave or thumbs up as I drove by. I have no life experience to cause me to understand that such attention increased fear of abduction that is often on the minds of women.

I would welcome any flattering remark from a friend, co-worker, boss or stranger. The world could use more kindness. So, as I stand in line at the grocery store, I might open a friendly conversation with a person in line next to me, " You have a beautiful baby, how old is he?" or " That French braid is well done, did you have that done or can you do it yourself?" But to some women, I might as well be standing with FBB checking out cup sizes on the girls as they get off the bus. I may be enjoying their smiling faces, but if they see stranger danger, I'm a creep. 

In my life experiences, rape is only slightly less rare than unicorns. Sexual remorse a bit more common. For many women their experiences are starkly different. For some, rape is on par with having both eyes dug out with a spoon. For guys, the threat of being raped is remote. My only concern walking home from the Bar at 3 AM is being able to get the key in the lock. Vastly different for women.

So, with vastly differing life experiences, guys will say and do things that reflect that ignorance. Asking for a clarification will likely make matters worse.

Some times during a conversation, as I'm reflecting on what I'm talking about, I'll lose eye contact, not really looking at anything. I have a female friend (just friend, like sister friend) that when I lose eye contact will, "Hey, up here, my eyes are up here." as if I were staring at her boobs. So, good old FBB may be enjoying smiling faces, but the girls might be seeing a lecherous old coot silently undressing them with his eyes. Ewwww...


----------



## Laura Zone 5 (Jan 13, 2010)

haypoint said:


> I'm not going to side with FBB, leering at young girls getting off the bus. However, guys grow up with different experiences than women. *So, we can do bad things that we think are not bad things.*


I find that so hard to believe.



> In High School, I was a runner, distance running mostly, jogging. Takes a lot of hard work. So, when I'd see a person, male or female, jogging, in an effort to acknowledge the effort, encourage the sport, I'd beep the horn and wave or thumbs up as I drove by. I have no life experience to cause me to understand that such attention increased fear of abduction that is often on the minds of women


I do not 'fear abduction.' 
Go ahead, make my day.

I own a Wrangler, we all wave at each other.
My daughter owns a car where other owners do the same thing.
Strangers wave on country roads, Men shout "Go Packers" when I wear anything Green Bay........
That is 'friendly' banter.

What women DO NOT appreciate (not 'fear' but are offended by, and disrespected by) are pervy oogling men who put off that mega creep vibe.

There's a big difference.



> I would welcome any flattering remark from a friend, co-worker, boss or stranger. The world could use more kindness. So, as I stand in line at the grocery store, I might open a friendly conversation with a person in line next to me, " You have a beautiful baby, how old is he?" or " That French braid is well done, did you have that done or can you do it yourself?" But to some women, I might as well be standing with FBB checking out cup sizes on the girls as they get off the bus. I may be enjoying their smiling faces, but if they see stranger danger, I'm a creep.


If you were standing on a street corner across from a school,and you are 20 years old or older and you were oogling minor girls hoping they would smile at you or give you some sort of thrill......
Yeah, you are a creep.
If you doing yard work for a woman who has made it clear she is not interested in you beyond a friend you are disrespecting her as a human being and overstepping her boundary; and that makes you a creep.
If you meet a woman for lunch, and agree to to exchange phone numbers for a possible 2nd lunch; Don't ask her to describe "every inch of her body and include what your hair smells like".
That makes you a stinkin' creep.



> In my life experiences, rape is only slightly less rare than unicorns.


Call the Marion County police department in Indiana and ask them just how far they are backed up on Rape kits. 
MONTHS AND MONTHS behind.
I know a gal who was raped and waited 8 months for her kit to get tested.
So I don't know what color the sky is on your planet, but I can assure you that your statistic is not only wrong, but highly disrespectful to women.
Everything you say from this point on is garbage because you have revealed how you view women.



> Sexual remorse a bit more common. For many women their experiences are starkly different. For some, rape is on par with having both eyes dug out with a spoon. For guys, the threat of being raped is remote. My only concern walking home from the Bar at 3 AM is being able to get the key in the lock. Vastly different for women.


You are absolutely ignorant of what rape is and when it occurs.
Absolutely ignorant.



> So, with vastly differing life experiences, guys will say and do things that reflect that ignorance. Asking for a clarification will likely make matters worse.


Trying to justify piggish disrespectful boundary breaking behavior is deplorable. Smart women do not fall for this trick.



> Some times during a conversation, as I'm reflecting on what I'm talking about, I'll lose eye contact, not really looking at anything. I have a female friend (just friend, like sister friend) that when I lose eye contact will, "Hey, up here, my eyes are up here." as if I were staring at her boobs. So, good old FBB may be enjoying smiling faces, but the girls might be seeing a lecherous old coot silently undressing them with his eyes. Ewwww...


I lose eye contact while speaking to people all the time.
I have never had a woman say "hey lady eyes up here".
I have never had a man say "Hey lady eyes up here" OR "wana get a room?"

Men who do not respect women show it loud and clear in word and deed and are easily picked out.......online and in real life.


----------



## FarmboyBill (Aug 19, 2005)

No Allen, I moved from St Joe in 75, a year after getting married to XXX. Wait a minute. Isnt that what they put on bottles of poison? lol


----------



## FarmboyBill (Aug 19, 2005)

lecherous old coot. I was anywhere from 20 to 25, and fairly good looking id have you know lol

I ran track too. Ran the 1/2 in 2 04. That was fast in those days. Once, the grade school, which didn't have a track used ours for a track meet with other grade schools. In order to try to impress this girl who was a freshman while I was a senior, and during a relay, when they headed off at the sound of the gun I headed out outside the track, and beat the relay team to the finish. The grade school coach got hold of me and threatened to report me, but apparently didn't as I didn't hear anything more about it.


----------



## roadless (Sep 9, 2006)

"If he's looking for a committed relationship and you haven't bothered to set him straight because you don't want to lose him as the brother you never had, you are deceiving him. "I sort of told him that, one time, a while ago, in passing, he said OK" isn't telling him. While you might realize most guys couldn't name 8 colors or identify 6 emotions, you may have forgotten that subtlety is wasted on guys. "


I'm not subtle. 
I said to him last month, " I enjoy your company but we will never be more than friends"
He said " Cool, can always use more friends "
I thought we were on the same page.
Clearly we are not.


----------



## haypoint (Oct 4, 2006)

Yup, I haven't a clue. I am a gentleman and all my male friends are gentlemen. I have not considered raping any one, nor have I experienced rape. It is not anything I think about. However, many women weigh that possibility when making choices.
obviously, you reaction to a honk and a wave is different that the reaction of others. 

Let me cite a couple examples of guys doing stupid stuff that women might find creepy.
I lived in a tourist area. The best ice cream was in the 3 city blocks devoted to tourists. As I head to the ice cream shop, I see a woman with a bay in a stroller, looking into a crowded shop. With the same gentleman instinct that would have me offering to carry a bag of groceries, I offer, " If you want to go in there, I'll watch your baby for a few minutes while you shop." That doesn't sound creepy to me, on the surface. It isn't until I reflect on how that would seem to a young mother. I'd likely get hauled to the police station for questioning. I have no evil intent and such evil doesn't pop into my hear first thing.
I'm going down the expressway, mid day, mid week. No traffic. I see a woman, alone, standing by her car, hood up. My first thought is, "If I were broke down, I'd want someone to stop and help me." But if I stop, I cause her panic because she is there alone, as she awaits the tow truck that she called from her phone. 

I don't want to defend the dude that mowed your lawn. But I've seen guy gal friends become couples. In building a relationship, timing is important. Rushing to a relationship milestone before the other is ready can damage the relationship. While you have seemingly made it clear that at this moment in time, he'll never be more than a friend. But guys hear it all the time that it is a woman's prerogative to change her mind. So, while you want him to back off, he's setting up base camp at this plateau in the relationship and prepare to ascend when the weather clears. Stupid guy. Perhaps I give him too much credit or you give him too little.

The "eyes up here" thing hasn't happened to you. I've made women angry because I held the door for them, even when I should have known they were capable. 

I find it interesting that you've concluded that I have not a clue what rape is, yet you deny that men can do bad things out of ignorance of the female perspective. 

youtube boyfriend too tired for sex.


----------



## AmericanStand (Jul 29, 2014)

Laura Zone 5 said:


> Trying to justify piggish disrespectful boundary breaking behavior is deplorable. Smart women do not fall for this trick.
> 
> I lose eye contact while speaking to people all the time.
> I have never had a woman say "hey lady eyes up here".
> ...



Often Laura I say something and find my self explaining to you that I didn't mean it in some awful way that you perceived it. 
I think the quote explains why. 
You don't believe that men live in the world that we do. 

Every man KNOWS that when in a females presence if he is caught with his eyes below chin level he is gonna be perceived as a pervert. 
I suspect most men have been called out for a downward drifting eye. 
ALL the men I know have. 
Yet you don't belive it cause it doesn't happen to you. 
Well you are a woman you live in a different world. 
If you casually touch a female you are kind and motherly. 
If you talk To a child you are a sweet dear. 
You can help a child dress
You can offer either gender a ride. 
You can offer clothing or fashion tips. 
You can babysit. 
And yes you may let your eyes roam. 
All without being thought of as a pervert. 
Guys can't.


----------



## AmericanStand (Jul 29, 2014)

Good grief guys whys it so bad a. 20 year old bill enjoyed the 18 year old friends of a few years earlyer. ?

I've alway thought it strange that you want to label a mans heart based on ages he can't see. 
I'd bet some of those gals looked and acted like women , others he ignored because they didn't. 
Untill women have large age labels on their heads how's a man to know ?
Specially those guys at the critical ages of. 19,20,21,22 where they are iexperianced and dealing with a razer thin margin.


----------



## AmericanStand (Jul 29, 2014)

Laura Zone 5 said:


> Jesus said "If you so much as LOOK at another woman with lust in your eyes, you have committed adultery"
> 
> Cheating is when your heart, eyes, mind and/or hands do anything with another person that is not your spouse.
> 
> ...



We are talking cheating not adultery. 
I think raven got pretty close. 
I think your miss was the word person. 

Cheating is when someone goes outside the relationship to satisfies their needs. 

It doesn't have to be that hunky guy down the street it can be that soap opera or romance novel. 
Think what is it they cheat on ?
The relationship. 
Let's say a man want sex
It may be easier to imagine it with a magazine model than negotiate it with his wife. 
A wife may want romance but rather than give him the sex he desires she finds it easier to flip on a soap or read a romance novel. 
It's the relationship that is being cheated of the nourishment it needs because of their bad faith negotiations.


----------



## FarmboyBill (Aug 19, 2005)

IF your referring to me Laura, I was a mile or more from any school. I was at a Katz Drug Store, where all the city busses ended up sooner or later.


----------



## Laura Zone 5 (Jan 13, 2010)

roadless said:


> "If he's looking for a committed relationship and you haven't bothered to set him straight because you don't want to lose him as the brother you never had, you are deceiving him. "I sort of told him that, one time, a while ago, in passing, he said OK" isn't telling him. While you might realize most guys couldn't name 8 colors or identify 6 emotions, you may have forgotten that subtlety is wasted on guys. "
> 
> 
> I'm not subtle.
> ...


If you two email, spell it out clearly so that you have a 'paper trail'.


----------



## Laura Zone 5 (Jan 13, 2010)

> We are talking cheating not adultery.
> I think raven got pretty close.
> I think your miss was the word person.


_Jesus said "If you so much as LOOK at another woman with lust in your eyes, you have committed adultery"_

Cheating is when your heart, eyes, mind and/or hands do anything with another person that is not your spouse.

*Cheating is deception. 
Swindle, mislead, unfaithful, trickery. 
Dishonest, fraud, to violate rules intentionally.

*Cheating at poker is not adultery.
Cheating on your spouse is adultery.
The bold is the dictionary definition of Cheating.......
The italic is Jesus' definition of cheating......
The middle is the definition of cheating in simple terms a 5 year old can understand.


----------



## Laura Zone 5 (Jan 13, 2010)

> Often Laura I say something and find my self explaining to you that I didn't mean it in some awful way that you perceived it.


Often you are rude and I call you out......



> I think the quote explains why.
> You don't believe that men live in the world that we do.


I have a son, who is a man, and I am VERY familiar with the world MEN live in.
He and I talk, extensively, about his experiences.



> Every man KNOWS that when in a females presence if he is caught with his eyes below chin level he is gonna be perceived as a pervert.
> I suspect most men have been called out for a downward drifting eye.
> ALL the men I know have.
> Yet you don't belive it cause it doesn't happen to you.


Not true.
My point, that you missed, was that I don't get called out because I have SELF CONTROL.




> Well you are a woman you live in a different world.
> If you casually touch a female you are kind and motherly.
> If you talk To a child you are a sweet dear.
> You can help a child dress
> ...


True. You are very right.
I can put my hands on a co-workers back and say "behind" to let them know I am there, where if a man does that, it's "creepy"......
You are very right. There are certain things women can do that men get the stink eye for.......



> And yes you may let your eyes roam.
> All without being thought of as a pervert.
> Guys can't.


At my age, if I am eyeballing boys 1/2 my age, I am definitely a pervert.
I see a lot of females my age, licking their lips and undressing men 1/2 their age, and I find them just as disgusting as men who do the same.

When out in public, I 'look' at a mans smile, then his left hand, then his shoes.
If his hand is in his pocket I do not stare at his pocket waiting for his hand to come out.


----------



## Raeven (Oct 11, 2011)

roadless said:


> Technically he was trespassing but that really isn't my concern as of yet.
> I need to have another talk with him.
> It's awkward but necessary.


I don't think anything he's done rises to the concern of creepy, stalking, threat of harm or anything more than a subtle, mostly harmless manipulation in his attempts to try for something he obviously wants (you). He meant well. I doubt he even realizes that his actions are manipulative -- and that's the problem. At most, he is guilty of trying too hard.

I'd be willing to make a bet that when he commiserates with his friends about the situation, he'll say something like, "Women always say they want a nice guy, but they really don't. If you're a nice guy, go mow their lawn, offer to pay for a date... they treat you like a brother and you always finish last!"

It's just his way of struggling with what he doesn't understand -- which is that you simply don't feel the same way about him as he does about you.


----------



## rkintn (Dec 12, 2002)

I disagree. She told him no and he did it anyway. She told him they were only gonna be friends and yet he continues to disregard her boundaries. That would concern me and it obviously concerns her. She should listen to her gut and go from there. I don't believe for one minute that he doesn't know what he's doing and that sends off the all the alarms.


----------



## FarmboyBill (Aug 19, 2005)

Laura, Since your up on the Word of God, Then you know that He told Moses to write that
Women were never to cut their hair
Nobody was to profane the temple that is their bodies with any markings, tats, ect.

How many women have cut their hair sometime in their lives. How many have tats?


----------



## Raeven (Oct 11, 2011)

rkintn said:


> I disagree. She told him no and he did it anyway. She told him they were only gonna be friends and yet he continues to disregard her boundaries. That would concern me and it obviously concerns her. She should listen to her gut and go from there. I don't believe for one minute that he doesn't know what he's doing and that sends off the all the alarms.


I didn't say she shouldn't be concerned about it. My first post on the subject makes it clear that she should not ignore it and she needs to take further steps to make her position crystal clear. But getting hysterical over some guy coming over to mow your lawn in what appears to be meant as a nice surprise seems a disproportionate reaction to me. I would not like it either, but I do see it from his side. It would be entirely different if she came home to find him sipping a beer from her fridge and watching her tee vee. I didn't have the impression that he did anything but mow her lawn.

The real problem here is that he minimizes the importance of what she is actually saying to him, thinking he knows better. I have not in any way advocated that she tolerate that. I've endured a few men like this. I've never found them to be malicious -- just wishing they could ignore what I am really telling them. Not acceptable, but hardly a reason to become fearful.

I agree if he persists, then that's a different situation. But again, there are an awful lot of people who don't believe men and women can actually be just friends. If he has that perspective, then he has likely convinced himself that she is just playing hard to get.

Reasonable minds can differ, of course.


----------



## AmericanStand (Jul 29, 2014)

Laura Zone 5 said:


> When out in public, I 'look' at a mans smile, then his left hand, then his shoes.
> If his hand is in his pocket I do not stare at his pocket waiting for his hand to come out.



Wow after all this you tell us you are a creepy pervert who likes to perv on guys. 
We all know as your eyes pretend to look at a mans hands your trying to see through pants pocket. 

Now imagine some half naked harpy screaming that at you at the top of her lungs in public. 

Welcome to a guys world.


----------



## WolfWalksSoftly (Aug 13, 2004)

I didn't see anything wrong with what Laura posted. WTH? I'm missing something.


----------



## roadless (Sep 9, 2006)

My being uncomfortable with the situation has more to do with not being heard than being in any danger.

I woke this morning to a message that said " Good morning blue eyes....."
I didn't respond.


----------



## HappySevenFarm (Jan 21, 2013)

It sure sounds like he's not getting the message. Maybe by not responding he will finally get the message.


----------



## WolfWalksSoftly (Aug 13, 2004)

roadless said:


> My being uncomfortable with the situation has more to do with not being heard than being in any danger.
> 
> I woke this morning to a message that said " Good morning blue eyes....."
> I didn't respond.


Was it written backwards with blood?


----------



## RideBarefoot (Jun 29, 2008)

I think you do need to respond. Give an inch, take a mile...

Not responding leaves it ambiguous in his mind.

I am a woman, so that is from this woman's perspective... I could be wrong.


----------



## haypoint (Oct 4, 2006)

RideBarefoot said:


> I think you do need to respond. Give an inch, take a mile...
> 
> Not responding leaves it ambiguous in his mind.
> 
> I am a woman, so that is from this woman's perspective... I could be wrong.


I agree. Don't leave him thinking you are blushing with a silly grin on your face, replaying that recording over and over.

Subtlety is wasted on many guys. 

I have observed that the "line that must never be crossed" is in different places for each individual woman. Makes me laugh when someone can believe that the line she has in her mind should be known by all men or that because she raised a man that communicates with her that she knows how many/most/some/any men think. 

She looks at a man's eyes, hand and shoes. Interesting. Must be true what they say about the size of a man's hands or his feet correspond to something. Otherwise why check them out? Why is a stranger's hand or shoe of any interest? Looking for a ring? You check every guy you meet to see if he's single? Maybe guys should get a "MARRIED" tattoo on their forehead, so while you are looking at his beautiful blue eyes, you could see his marital status without focusing on his hand, shoes or man parts.

I've been criticized for holding the door for a woman and criticized for not holding the door. Then you want to claim that every guy knows when he is doing wrong.


----------



## HappySevenFarm (Jan 21, 2013)

If a lady didn't respond to a text that I had sent I may text again at a later date. If she didn't respond to that one, I know that I would be moving along.


----------



## haypoint (Oct 4, 2006)

rkintn said:


> I disagree. She told him no and he did it anyway. She told him they were only gonna be friends and yet he continues to disregard her boundaries. That would concern me and it obviously concerns her. She should listen to her gut and go from there. I don't believe for one minute that he doesn't know what he's doing and that sends off the all the alarms.


I don't think it was "Do NOT mow my lawn!" with direct eye contact. Nor was it "Don't touch my breast." but he did it anyway. It is just grass, it'll grow back.

My dad, he's 82, mows the neighbor's lawn. They have told him that he doesn't have to do that, but he continues. Is he a friendly guy or a stalker?

Could the question be:"How can I get this guy to do all the stuff a boyfriend does, but without the sex?"


----------



## WolfWalksSoftly (Aug 13, 2004)

Yeah tell him you will rip his eyes out and suck the lifeblood right out of him.. Lol


----------



## WolfWalksSoftly (Aug 13, 2004)

haypoint said:


> I don't think it was "Do NOT mow my lawn!" with direct eye contact. Nor was it "Don't touch my breast." but he did it anyway. It is just grass, it'll grow back.
> 
> My dad, he's 82, mows the neighbor's lawn. They have told him that he doesn't have to do that, but he continues. Is he a friendly guy or a stalker?
> 
> Could the question be:"How can I get this guy to do all the stuff a boyfriend does, but without the sex?"


If someone told me not to do something, end of story.


----------



## HappySevenFarm (Jan 21, 2013)

haypoint said:


> I don't think it was "Do NOT mow my lawn!" with direct eye contact. Nor was it "Don't touch my breast." but he did it anyway. It is just grass, it'll grow back.
> 
> My dad, he's 82, mows the neighbor's lawn. They have told him that he doesn't have to do that, but he continues. Is he a friendly guy or a stalker?
> 
> Could the question be:"How can I get this guy to do all the stuff a boyfriend does, but without the sex?"



You're trying to compare apples to oranges. Quite a few differences here. Has your dad tried leaving things at your neighbors house? Is he sending texts saying 'good morning blue eyes.....'? You said 'they' so I'm assuming it's a married couple whose yard he mows and not a single elderly lady. Probably have been neighbors for awhile and your dad a friendly neighbor. You said that they told him he 'doesn't have to' which is a big difference from 'do not'.


----------



## WolfWalksSoftly (Aug 13, 2004)

It still might be time to take the lawnmower away from Dad.


----------



## rkintn (Dec 12, 2002)

FarmboyBill said:


> Laura, Since your up on the Word of God, Then you know that He told Moses to write that
> Women were never to cut their hair
> Nobody was to profane the temple that is their bodies with any markings, tats, ect.
> 
> How many women have cut their hair sometime in their lives. How many have tats?


The law of Moses was made null and void when Christ died on the cross. As I'm sure you are well aware.


----------



## WolfWalksSoftly (Aug 13, 2004)

Paul said you all are to keep your heads covered and remain silent in the church too... And Fred Flintstone said Yabba Dabba Doo!


----------



## rkintn (Dec 12, 2002)

WolfWalksSoftly said:


> Paul said you all are to keep your heads covered and remain silent in the church too... And Fred Flintstone said Yabba Dabba Doo!


Pheww! Guess it's a good thing I don't go to church


----------



## WolfWalksSoftly (Aug 13, 2004)

I might start my own church. The only requirement would be a Kayak or Canoe.


----------



## Laura Zone 5 (Jan 13, 2010)

Roadless, his BLATANT disrespect will only get worse.

Sending a text / email that says: 
Hey bob, if I was not clear before, I apologize, but I am not interested in any way shape or form in a relationship other than let's grab a beer ocassionally. 
I absolutely understand if you are seeking more and our strictly platonic friendship will either go to the back burner, or off the stove completely, but you are over stepping boundaries with me and I want that to stop.. 
Let me know if you have any questions.

That should do it.


----------



## Laura Zone 5 (Jan 13, 2010)

WolfWalksSoftly said:


> I didn't see anything wrong with what Laura posted. WTH? I'm missing something.


Cherry picking words to rearrange and mean something different to cause a ruckus. 
Oy Vey.


----------



## roadless (Sep 9, 2006)

haypoint said:


> I don't think it was "Do NOT mow my lawn!" with direct eye contact. Nor was it "Don't touch my breast." but he did it anyway. It is just grass, it'll grow back.
> 
> My dad, he's 82, mows the neighbor's lawn. They have told him that he doesn't have to do that, but he continues. Is he a friendly guy or a stalker?
> 
> Could the question be:"How can I get this guy to do all the stuff a boyfriend does, but without the sex?"



Actually it was a rather forceful statement with eye contact, although I did say please do not mow my lawn in best 'I mean it ' voice.

The question could absolutely *not* mean " How can I get this guy to do all the stuff a boyfriend does, but without the sex?"
That dynamic is so far removed from who I am it is laughable, in fact I have difficulty asking for help even when I really do need it. If I can't handle a job I will hire someone. 

When I got to my new place after work today he came with some mums, saying it was a housewarming gift.
I told him that he was a friend and as hard as it is to say , that is all he will ever be. He said that we already had this conversation. I said that we need to have it again, that I was uncomfortable with him mowing when I said I would take care of it.....that he was acting as if we are partners, and we are not.

He then laughed and said ..so no means no...so I raped your lawn....
(That comment was just to weird..).I told him that I certainly wouldn't put it like that but that to please stop trying to act like we are more than friends.

A man came to give me an estimate for some work and he left.


----------



## rkintn (Dec 12, 2002)

roadless said:


> Actually it was a rather forceful statement with eye contact, although I did say please do not mow my lawn in best 'I mean it ' voice.
> 
> The question could absolutely *not* mean " How can I get this guy to do all the stuff a boyfriend does, but without the sex?"
> That dynamic is so far removed from who I am it is laughable, in fact I have difficulty asking for help even when I really do need it. If I can't handle a job I will hire someone.
> ...


It may not even be possible to be friends at this point. At the very least it's gonna be very difficult knowing that he wants to be more than just friends. If I were in your shoes, I would be putting plenty of distance between us.


----------



## Raeven (Oct 11, 2011)

I'll be surprised if you hear from him again. He will convince himself you are a "whacko," and that's ok. Let him move along under whatever terms it helps him to get past it. 

I've occasionally known men who lash out this way to make themselves feel better about you disengaging from them. Go along with letting him think he's "dumping" you.

I agree with *Rhonda*. It's not possible to maintain a "friendship" under these circumstances, when he's not willing to accept your boundaries of it.


----------



## roadless (Sep 9, 2006)

I totally agree.


----------



## Raeven (Oct 11, 2011)

[thread hijack]

Here's a funny story about a brief but extreme example of this behavior I encountered many years ago. Maybe it will cheer you up a bit. 

I'd gone out with several girlfriends to a dance club we enjoyed frequenting, as was our usual habit on the weekend. But I wasn't dancing that night. I don't remember what the reason was, but I wasn't.

I had a rule that if I was dancing, I'd dance with whomever asked, because it always irritated me when women would dance with some men but not others. I always imagined how the "non-worthy" men felt about that, or how I would feel if someone told me they didn't want to dance but then I saw them dancing with someone else later. Not very nice.

Conversely, if I wasn't dancing, I didn't dance with anyone.

So... the night goes along and I politely decline several invitations to dance, and that was fine. But then came along a fellow with whom I had the following exchange:

Him: "Would you like to dance?"

Me: "That's a nice invitation, but I'm not dancing this evening. Thanks all the same."

Him, fixing me with a narrow-eyed stare: "Well, I only asked because I felt sorry for you. You are so UGLY!! Ugly, ugly, UGLY!!!"

Me: "Umm, ok, then. You're off the hook!"

He left the table, still hissing back at me, "Ugly!! You're so UGLY!!!"

All I could do was laugh. Not because he was right or wrong -- beauty is in the eye of the beholder -- but because... why are you asking an ugly woman to dance???

Every time I even glanced in his direction, he would glare at me and mouth, "UGLY!! UGLY, UGLY!!"

We (I and my girlfriends) left for breakfast not too long after. 

It still cracks me up.

[/end thread hijack]


----------



## elkhound (May 30, 2006)

UGLY people have all the fun...


----------



## sustainabilly (Jun 20, 2012)

roadless, please, you be extra careful with this guy. Hear? You're there...on the scene, as it were, and that gives you a unique perspective which even your best description can't give us. But please, just keep your high alert on full where he's concerned? 

Hopefully, he will passively fade away, and it'll turn out like Rhonda and Rae said. Not even friends. Frankly, considering what might lie beneath the snide, lawn rape quip, good riddance. But, that unique perspective sometimes puts us a little too close to the center of things and our objectivity suffers.

I know, you're a smart woman, and you stand firmly behind your convictions. It's just that reading this latest development made my "uh oh" alarm go off way down here. I guess I'm just needing to know you will continue exercising that well developed self preservation sense of yours. And to say, you be extra careful for a little while, again.


----------



## roadless (Sep 9, 2006)

Thanks Sustainability, I am on alert.
That comment was bizarre.
Hopefully the talk we had yesterday will end it.


----------



## Laura Zone 5 (Jan 13, 2010)

roadless said:


> Actually it was a rather forceful statement with eye contact, although I did say please do not mow my lawn in best 'I mean it ' voice.
> 
> The question could absolutely *not* mean " How can I get this guy to do all the stuff a boyfriend does, but without the sex?"
> That dynamic is so far removed from who I am it is laughable, in fact I have difficulty asking for help even when I really do need it. If I can't handle a job I will hire someone.
> ...


http://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-...ality-disorder/basics/definition/CON-20025568

https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/anger-in-the-age-entitlement/200812/are-you-dating-abuser

Um, I stand firm on post 55.
This dude is scary.
Making 'rape jokes' is NOT funny, DISRESPECTFUL and shows just how he feels about and treats women.......

Please tell me he walked away with the mums.
Please tell me he didn't leave them.....

I would document ALL conversations, and I would call the local PD and let them know what's going on JUST SO YOU HAVE IT DOCUMENTED.
Get your butt to the range.

Be careful.
This guy is more than a creep.........


----------



## roadless (Sep 9, 2006)

I am not overly concerned, but I am certainly on alert. 
I believe he got the message yesterday....if not I will take further steps.


----------



## Laura Zone 5 (Jan 13, 2010)

You cut and pasted this comment and reply from a thread that has been shut down.
NOT ONLY is that a violation of the rules, you take the WHOLE THING out of context.

You have been reported.


----------



## FarmboyBill (Aug 19, 2005)

Why cant we all be friends ??????????? lol


----------



## WolfWalksSoftly (Aug 13, 2004)

A.S. You don't have any daughters? or didn't have a little sister?


----------



## Clem (Apr 12, 2016)

Laura Zone 5 said:


> You cut and pasted this comment and reply from a thread that has been shut down.
> NOT ONLY is that a violation of the rules, you take the WHOLE THING out of context.
> 
> You have been reported.





Laura Zone 5 said:


> I think he's a good guy.
> Didn't realize you were a mod Clem?


lol..


----------



## Laura Zone 5 (Jan 13, 2010)

Just wow guys.


----------



## Clem (Apr 12, 2016)

Obviously you don't see the irony in saying "Didn't realize you were a mod Clem?" because I pointed out that political threads belong in politics, then a couple days later having a hissy fit, reporting a post, and also taking it to the admin forum too. Just wow right back atcha. Not my fault you can't see the obvious. At least I didn't go reporting stuff and carrying it to the admin forum too. LOL, and once again, LOL.


----------



## AmericanStand (Jul 29, 2014)

Laura Zone 5 said:


> You cut and pasted this comment and reply from a thread that has been shut down.
> NOT ONLY is that a violation of the rules, you take the WHOLE THING out of context.
> 
> You have been reported.



Well OPPS I wondered what happened. 
It would be nice if the site had told me I was trying to post to a closed thread.

And just to be clear. 
I am sorry , my mistake.


----------



## FarmboyBill (Aug 19, 2005)

U guys might as well back off and let it go. Guys see the other sex and the situations that can happen with them in a much different light then women do. That's not gonna change. Women cant see/view how we see things/situations, and we cant see how they view/see us. We make fools out of ourselves, theres no doubt about it, and yes, we cross lines that we don't see but they do. They have there own standards of conduct, that they think we should know and go by. IF we did, nobody would ever meet anybody. Its us, making fools outa ourselves, and the women who feel sorry for those guys who do that keep the world populated.


----------



## WolfWalksSoftly (Aug 13, 2004)

I have never had mercy sex, thank God.


----------



## Raeven (Oct 11, 2011)

WolfWalksSoftly said:


> I have never had mercy sex, thank God.


That you know about.


----------



## WolfWalksSoftly (Aug 13, 2004)

Yes I do. It's not like I am a male slot .


----------



## Laura Zone 5 (Jan 13, 2010)

What is a male slot?


----------



## WolfWalksSoftly (Aug 13, 2004)

The male version of a female slot.. Change the O for a U.


----------



## Laura Zone 5 (Jan 13, 2010)

OOOOOOOOOOOOOO Ok.
duh.


----------



## WolfWalksSoftly (Aug 13, 2004)

Yes, it's deemed a bad word lol


----------



## Laura Zone 5 (Jan 13, 2010)

ehh....you should be ok!


----------



## Nsoitgoes (Jan 31, 2016)

FarmboyBill said:


> Guys see the other sex and the situations that can happen with them in a much different light then women do. That's not gonna change.
> 
> *I disagree. It is changing. Women are now a lot more independent. They no longer need to put up with a Neanderthal in order to survive. The men who don't appreciate that will be the ones out in the cold wondering what happened.*
> 
> ...


It is no mystery that women want to be treated with honesty and respect in word and deed. How hard can that be? All we ask is that you speak the truth, keep your eyes and other bodily parts placed appropriately - that is in a place you wouldn't be ashamed of your grandmother seeing and that you keep your words and gestures respectful. Again, if you wouldn't say it to granny then you probably shouldn't be saying it to any other woman either until you know that the relationship is on a solid foundation.


----------



## WolfWalksSoftly (Aug 13, 2004)

The system blocked it lol


----------



## Laura Zone 5 (Jan 13, 2010)

Aw ratz


----------



## AmericanStand (Jul 29, 2014)

Nsoitgoes said:


> It is no mystery that women want to be treated with honesty and respect in word and deed. How hard can that be? All we ask is that you speak the truth, keep your eyes and other bodily parts placed appropriately - that is in a place you wouldn't be ashamed of your grandmother seeing and that you keep your words and gestures respectful. Again, if you wouldn't say it to granny then you probably shouldn't be saying it to any other woman either until you know that the relationship is on a solid foundation.



No problem just act in a way we can respect and cover what you don't want us to see.


----------



## rkintn (Dec 12, 2002)

AmericanStand said:


> No problem just act in a way we can respect and cover what you don't want us to see.


So in other words shut up and wear a burka? I'm sure you will be happy to tell us women folk what constitutes respectful acts and just the right amount of clothing LOL.


----------



## AmericanStand (Jul 29, 2014)

Lol well a burka would pretty much cover everything. 
I don't really care what you cover or don't but realize if someone can see it someone will see. 
And for the record a woman not saying anything seldom earns my respect. 
Except for those times it's a amazing feat of self control.


----------



## AmericanStand (Jul 29, 2014)

Lol well not saying anything can be a amazing act of self control !
As for what you wear just cover what you don't want seen.


----------



## Nsoitgoes (Jan 31, 2016)

AmericanStand said:


> Lol well not saying anything can be a amazing act of self control !
> 
> *Yes. It is. *
> 
> As for what you wear just cover what you don't want seen.


It doesn't matter whether it is covered or not. Some men keep thinking that if they stare long enough they will develop X-Ray vision.


----------



## rkintn (Dec 12, 2002)

AmericanStand said:


> Lol well not saying anything can be a amazing act of self control !
> As for what you wear just cover what you don't want seen.


I was being facetious. I don't care about your opinion about what women should do or say or wear lol. I'm pretty sure should we ever meet in person, your head would explode from my lack of femininity and bountiful opinions and smarts. I would be okay with that


----------



## Clem (Apr 12, 2016)

Sploding heads is the primal force behind uncontrollable love in middle age.


----------



## WolfWalksSoftly (Aug 13, 2004)

Love, or lust ? They aren't the same.


----------



## AmericanStand (Jul 29, 2014)

rkintn said:


> I was being facetious. I don't care about your opinion about what women should do or say or wear lol. I'm pretty sure should we ever meet in person, your head would explode from my lack of femininity and bountiful opinions and smarts. I would be okay with that



Why ?

Good grief I'd think it would be obvious that I prefer strong smart women. 

I fully support a woman's right to wear what she wants. 
I also realize choices have consequences one of which is if it can be seen it will be.


----------



## Laura Zone 5 (Jan 13, 2010)

WolfWalksSoftly said:


> Love, or lust ? They aren't the same.


WHAT are you KIDDING ME????
:drum:


----------



## WolfWalksSoftly (Aug 13, 2004)

Laura Zone 5 said:


> WHAT are you KIDDING ME????
> :drum:


What What? Baby Lol


----------



## Clem (Apr 12, 2016)

WolfWalksSoftly said:


> Love, or lust ? They aren't the same.


One of the things people have forgotten, in this new age of saying stuff on the internet with no intention of backing it up, is that without lust there would be no love. Think about your friends, whom you share almost everything with(except sex). Now imagine telling them you're in love with them. See? There is no driving force to procreate, like there is to breathe, drink water, eat, keep from freezing to death, and so on. The want, desire, or need is for sex. Nobody sits around thinking "I need to have a bunch of kids". No, they're thinking about sex. 

And, before somebody makes a point that sex and lust aren't the same, yeah they are. Look it up.
Oxford Dictionaries: 
lust
[l&#601;st]
NOUN: very strong sexual desire: 

Very clearly lust came first. If you want to believe that somehow, it's the responsibility of some mythical cowboy with no pants, but a little bow and arrow, whatever.


----------



## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

Clem said:


> One of the things people have forgotten, in this new age of saying stuff on the internet with no intention of backing it up, is that without lust there would be no love. Think about your friends, whom you share almost everything with(except sex). Now imagine telling them you're in love with them. See? There is no driving force to procreate, like there is to breathe, drink water, eat, keep from freezing to death, and so on. The want, desire, or need is for sex. *Nobody sits around thinking "I need to have a bunch of kids"*. No, they're thinking about sex.
> 
> And, before somebody makes a point that sex and lust aren't the same, yeah they are. Look it up.
> Oxford Dictionaries:
> ...


Obviously, you have never experienced the ticking clock syndrome that women do. Women choose the wrong man all the time because of that stupid little thing in their head ticking away.


----------



## WolfWalksSoftly (Aug 13, 2004)

Sorry Clem. That is what separates us from the animal kingdom. Animals have lust to procreate. We have love to procreate.n


----------



## Clem (Apr 12, 2016)

painterswife said:


> Obviously, you have never experienced the ticking clock syndrome that women do. Women choose the wrong man all the time because of that stupid little thing in their head ticking away.


Obviously. Not being a woman, I've never experienced anything from a woman's point of view. I don't get your point. That'd be like me saying "eye-level" and someone saying "You've never experienced eye level from a narwhal's point of view"

I looked up "ticking clock syndrome. Links about diabetes, Oprah and anxiety, but finally found what you are probably referring to, "I'm getting old and I haven't had a baby" A little research showed that some women want children, and some don't. Those who feel a need to have children probably use that as their criteria for finding the wrong man. 

So, to clarify, some women do sit around thinking ""I need to have a bunch of kids" 





WolfWalksSoftly said:


> Sorry Clem. That is what separates us from the animal kingdom. Animals have lust to procreate. We have love to procreate.n


Yer a hoot, you are. 

Human Facts
Kingdom:	Animalia
Phylum:	Chordata
Class:	Mammalia
Order:	Primates
Family:	Hominidae
Genus:	****

We are not separated from the animal kingdom, we are the most destructive species of animal.


----------



## WolfWalksSoftly (Aug 13, 2004)

Whatever.. I guess I should have said.. Separates us from the rest of the animal kingdom.. Jeesh.


----------



## Clem (Apr 12, 2016)

Our boundless sense of self-importance is the more prominent feature that implies we're not up to par with some other animals. Only humanity has been on a journey to self-destruct, taking the rest of the world with us. Only humanity has felt the need to create deities to explain away our fears and hopes. Only humanity has tried, over and over, to kill without cause, and pretend it's for the "greater good"

you know, I can be outside, observing nature, and come as close as I'll ever come to a singularity with nature. Come back inside, look at the news, and I know that we're the only truly evil animal.


----------



## haypoint (Oct 4, 2006)

painterswife said:


> Obviously, you have never experienced the ticking clock syndrome that women do. Women choose the wrong man all the time because of that stupid little thing in their head ticking away.


Conversely, men chose the wrong woman all the time because of that stupid little thing in their pants ticking away.


----------



## sustainabilly (Jun 20, 2012)

WolfWalksSoftly said:


> Sorry Clem. That is what separates us from the animal kingdom. Animals have lust to procreate. We have love to procreate.n


Seriously Wolf? Try telling that to all the biologically(sexually) mature women who were raped, or got so drunk they had sex with someone then regretted it...etc, then became pregnant as a result. I just can't wrap my head around the idea that love had much to do with those instances. More to the point, it was probably a result of lust...at least in the negative context it is normally viewed in these days.

But, but, but... that would make those lustful people --both males and females in certain situations-- more comparable to animals. 

Ya think maybe, just maybe, it's not as cut and dried as all that?


----------



## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

haypoint said:


> Conversely, men chose the wrong woman all the time because of that stupid little thing in their pants ticking away.


My husband and I got to know each other over the internet and phone months before we ever met. Back in the day when digital pictures were barely around. We fell in love with each others minds and personalities. It was not about lust and looks. That is love. Lust is not love though too many people seem to think it is.


----------



## WolfWalksSoftly (Aug 13, 2004)

Sustainability. I was using that reference as humans being in relationships, marriage. I didn't realize this thread was in the old general chat room.. Lighten up.


----------



## Clem (Apr 12, 2016)

Some people can disagree with other people, but some people can't?? When I disagree with someone, I don't bother with implying they need to shut up. Or "Lighten up'


----------



## WolfWalksSoftly (Aug 13, 2004)

You weren't part of the discussion.. Lighten up.. Lol


----------



## Clem (Apr 12, 2016)

Dude. Look at Sustainabillly's first post. The post of yours that made him feel the need to make his own observations. The very first 2 word sentence of the quoted post. What is that second word??


----------



## WolfWalksSoftly (Aug 13, 2004)

Clem, I see now how you were brought into it. I'm at work now and using my cell, so I don't always see everything.. I'm going to Lighten up.


----------



## sustainabilly (Jun 20, 2012)

Aww Wolf, c'mon now. You'll notice that I waited until you answered Clem before I posted. You had a chance there to add more complete qualifiers to your statement in order to dispel any misunderstandings. You didn't. Hence, I answered your statement as it originally stood. I didn't realize that poorly thought out blanket statements which are destined to create misunderstandings are the new norm here in ST, or that calling someone on a flawed statement was reserved for a different forum. In fact, unless I dreamt it all, I'm sure there've been many very spirited threads here in ST where people called others out on just about the same type of incomplete expressions of thoughts, and/or lapses in logical progression, logical fallacies,...etc. 

Consequently, there's really nothing to lighten up, as you put it, about. Unless, of course, by using that phrase you're intending to imply that I'm going past the normal bounds of conversational discourse toward a stance of histrionics. In which case your ploy will fail. There are already enough members who regularly post here who prefer that method of communication. And frankly, it rarely helps their position much. I answered your post in a mildly sarcastic way in order to put it on the same footing as your post that generated both Clem's and my responses. In other words, to answer an utterly unqualified statement which could have been completely avoided had you applied a bit of forethought to your reasoning before you posted.

With respect to the point you, I think, were trying to make; while it may be the preferred way, all humans who willingly procreate are not always in a loving relationship. Neither are they always in a bad relationship simply because there's no love shared. It also doesn't mean that they are more like animals than humans. When I referred to it (the concept) not being as cut and dried as your simple statement seemed to say, it was because I am aware of that. Just because you have either not ever been exposed to that possibility, or maybe personally disapprove of it, doesn't change the fact that it happens, regularly, in our world.


----------



## WolfWalksSoftly (Aug 13, 2004)

Very good! And well put. In my frame of mind I was comparing love to lust, to me there is a difference. I have experienced both.


----------



## AmericanStand (Jul 29, 2014)

painterswife said:


> My husband and I got to know each other over the internet and phone months before we ever met. Back in the day when digital pictures were barely around. We fell in love with each others minds and personalities. It was not about lust and looks. That is love. Lust is not love though too many people seem to think it is.



My girlfriend and I Spent years talking after meeting on the internet. 
But looks were such a small part of it that when we actually met the first time we couldn't recognize each other even though we were the only ones in the cafe!


----------



## Laura Zone 5 (Jan 13, 2010)

WolfWalksSoftly said:


> Very good! And well put. In my frame of mind I was comparing love to lust, to me there is a difference. I have experienced both.


NO! Say it ain't so? 

I guess that answers the OP......why are ex's bf's jealous?
AND because of the things and behaviors spelled out in this thread!!!!!!

Sounds like men, know men.......
This is why good fathers look at potential bf's and say "I know what you're thinking, and not with my daughter you won't" as he's cleaning his .9!!!!


----------



## FarmboyBill (Aug 19, 2005)

ANY Father would know what ANY bf was thinking about his daughter cause he is still young enough to remember when HE was the bfs age. HE also realizes that, just as his daughters moms dad knew what he was thinking, and HE did that to this mans daughter, then somewhere, sometime, some bf is going to do that to his daughter.. AS LONG as she has no problems with it/him, dad generally don't. BUT, IF he treats her wrong, Look out scout.


----------

