# Another indication it's coming. . .



## Becka (Mar 15, 2008)

We had a guy come to church saying he needs a job, any job, but can't find one anywhere. At first I thought "yeah, right, here comes another moocher wanting a free handout from the church." Only, this man NEVER asked for anything. He was clean, sober, sane (did not appear to be on drugs) and seemed very sincere. Said he was looking for friends and a good church. No sob story, just facts.

So, we asked a teen we know if McDonald's had any openings. The answer really shocked me. He said they weren't hiring anyone, and in fact had "downsized" because people aren't buying as much fast food. Fast food joints have always been a good "opportunity" for unskilled workers around here, especially during the winter months when most of the teens are still in school.

Nobody else is hiring, either. We're seeing more independently owned shops closing and less and less traffic at our local mall. Panhandlers are coming out of the woodwork, too. 

I guess I just assumed that low paying jobs would still be available to those desperate for work. I was wrong.


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## lovinthislife (Aug 28, 2009)

my son is 19& a 1/2. He has been looking for work since he turned 17. We live in southern ohio and he has been everywhere. My other son works for walmart distribution. He got my youngest an interview and the guy told him that he didn't have any experience. Go out and get a job for 6 months and come back and we'll hire you. That was almost 2 yrs. ago. My son goes every week to the fast food restaurants and he can't find nothing. All the restaurants around here are on a skeleton crew. He's joining the Air Force because he can't find any thing else. But, the air force is cutting back too. It's bad around here.


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## Vashti (Dec 22, 2006)

It took my son months to find a job, and initially we thought he was just lazy and not trying hard enough. Turns out, it's really bad here too. He finally got a job at Burger King again. He'd quit because all the workers were pushing pot, but it's the only thing available and the manager practically begged him to come back because he was a good worker with a great attitude and she didn't want to have to train someone new.


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## TheMartianChick (May 26, 2009)

One of my daughters was just hired right before Christmas at a clothing store at the mall. She is a sophomore in college. Her sister who just earned an Associates Degree has been looking for weeks and the only job that "might" hire her is at a Subway restaurant.She is still in college, but she was trying to get a job and work school around the job's schedule...No such luck, so far.


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## NamasteMama (Jul 24, 2009)

My husband has been out of work for over a year. He sends out at least 10 resumes a day. He can't find anything except delivering pizza's


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## Hobbes (Apr 1, 2008)

I've been looking through Craiglist's business section and it is scary how many business in this area have been shuttering and trying to sell all of their equipment. A lot of food, printing, and looks like service-type businesses. It's a great time to get equipment, but man...


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## stranger (Feb 24, 2008)

My son went to college and got a teaching degree, he's been working in a prison as a guard almost a yr, the only thing he could find at the time.


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## Kmac15 (May 19, 2007)

My DS is a musician in Nashville, has been making a living doing this for several years. The tips in the bars have gone down so much that he had to go back to the restaurant he had worked in to ask for some shifts. They said they would put him on the list, but business is so slow they were having to cut people already signed up.


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## GrannyG (Mar 26, 2005)

Jobs in a small town are really scarce. No one is hiring, even at the convenience and grocery stores, the hours have been cut for the employees. I look for times to get even harder.


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## AngieM2 (May 10, 2002)

have any of the people looking for work signed up with a Contract Work place? Rather like those office places "Kelly Services" or "Manpower" , but there are ones that are for more technical - long term contracts?

I know when I was first laid off, I saw an ad and answered it for a contract company - I had a 4 month, well paying job with Raytheon to do paperwork for their El Paso TX office, but here in Huntsville.

Many of the bigger companies are now going thru these contract agencies. It allows them to try long term before they hire. With the contract agency you can see about group insurance, and they do a paycheck withholding for you, just as working for a regular company. 

Raytheon did try to hire me and the other lady that was doing the same thing. Their home office didn't have it in the budget then. 

But 4 months then - was four months.

It was good for them, as they paid no benefits and good for me, to see if I even liked them and I was making $5 an hour more than what the last job had paid.

maybe someone could approach a company as a "contractor" rather than an employee, or find a contracting company.

Good luck.
Angie


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## cast iron (Oct 4, 2004)

AngieM2 said:


> have any of the people looking for work signed up with a Contract Work place? Rather like those office places "Kelly Services" or "Manpower" , but there are ones that are for more technical - long term contracts?


Yes, the contract or temporary agencies rule the roost these days. Even Microsoft uses them almost exclusively for many positions, often through Volt temp agency. Microsoft (and other companies as you mentioned) use the temporary people as a long-term job interview, eventually (years many times) finally hiring the best of the best temps that come through their system. It's about the only way to get on with many companies these days.

Another thing I see people doing is volunteering to work for free just so they can get some work history and references on their resume. I recall reading that the unemployment rate for teens to 25 was something like 27%. Many young people in this category get trapped in the 'no experience, but can't get hired to get any experience' situation. Thus the volunteering just to have something in their work history and some references. Couple this with a 20% + unemployment rate in the construction industry (which is typically an entry level job opportunity) and you have a bad situation. So people are volunteering for a period of time (sometimes for a year), then trying to get an entry level position via one of the temp agencies.


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## ChristyACB (Apr 10, 2008)

Volunteering is a good path and lots of young folks around here are doing it in their chosen field. Volunteers at the Botanical gardens, animal control, court interns, legislature interns, hospital volunteers and the list goes on. Even volunteering in maintenance gives HVAC and that sort of experience for jobs as resident manager. Just got to be creative.

For those who need to put food on the table, not a great option, but for a young person with a home to rely on, could be just the thing.


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## Andy Nonymous (Aug 20, 2005)

I know someone does contract services, and his work has gone from nearly full time 5 years ago (in a chronically economically depressed area), to less than 20 hours a week 3 years ago, to about 20 hours a month now. As he says, "it's not enough to live on, but there's nothing else out there. I just gotta hang on until something better comes along... or until I got nothing left to lose." 

The classified ads in the regional papers are often so tightly specific that only a few would qualify, and the wages posted are often shocking, e.g.: a PhD level job, with 5 years experience in a field, for 32k.

The only people still doing "ok" seem to be those working for the g-ment. How much longer before the people they supposedly work for can't afford them (via taxes)?


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## steff bugielski (Nov 10, 2003)

Zero jobs here. My son also has been looking and can't find anything. 
You know it's bad when the professionals are bagging groceries.
My son can't even join the military, he has type 1 diabetes. He needs to have a job with health benifets but no luck


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## FarmerChick (Dec 28, 2009)

and only going to get worse

interesting to see how many more big chains/business close this year. There are major restaurants like Applebees and more on the "possible out of business" to come list.


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## NJ Rich (Dec 14, 2005)

Many stores here have closed permanately. Many more have cut down on the number of employees. The malls have a lot of empty stores and major stores are having finacial problems. I also noticed the Home Depot has far less employees working during the day. I asked one of the employees if HD had laid off people? He said yes..........

I don't know what the trend is in other areas but the fast food places here seem to only have Spanish speaking employees. What is going on with that? The older people who we always seemed to see at those places are gone......... No, I don't frequent those fast food places but the grandchildren think it is a treat to go there and play in the heated play area. 

I did notice the car dealers have empty desks and the service area seems to be slow. 

It isn't coming ..... It is already here folks............


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## brosil (Dec 15, 2003)

I was wandering through Craig's List job section yesterday and found that the Non-Governmental Organization section was filled with jobs. Many of them were paperpushing jobs that didn't pay too bad. Take a look through there and see if there's something you can stomach.


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## freegal (Mar 4, 2005)

Same here in northern Illinois in our small town. My DD & I went to take the Census exam this week. At the morning session there were 20 people, with several turned away for being late. I wonder how many came for the afternoon one?


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## soulsurvivor (Jul 4, 2004)

Considering how everything's changing, someone might be interested in offering to be a driver and bodyguard for people that might need that service.


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## Ross (May 9, 2002)

I couldn't find a soul to work for a week or 2 last month for $15/hr. Nasty work in a cold cramped space banging tin admitedly. There are still lots of help wanted signs for retail here.


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## texican (Oct 4, 2003)

The busiest business around here is the guys who print up custom help wanted signs.

I'm sorry that most of the country is in the doldrums...

If someone wants to work locally, and can either talk, walk, drive, handle a tool, they can find a job. I drive the 'loop' around Carthage several times a week. Seems every month more timber is levelled, building pads are built, and metal buildings are put up in days, for new businesses. Each of them is hiring, for every conceivable position. Truck drivers get sign on bonuses. I drove to Marshall, 18 miles north last week, after not having went in a month, and new businesses were springing up there also.

High School Graduates, and even non graduates, can get an oilfield job, and start bringing down 40K/yr. A local guy I know went to school and got a BS in Business. Searched around and couldn't find anything... his BIL put him on as a compressor mechanic, at 40K/yr starting... he left after a year (after getting a first rate training) and now makes even more with his new employer.

One guy four years ago put in a fancy nancy rv park on the loop. Everyone thought he was crazy... as the loop isn't a real scenic place I'd want to camp at. He was crazy like a fox... within weeks, his park was full. Oil field workers that were living in hotels brought their rv's down and started living out of them. He's expanded twice, and can't expand much more... he has hundreds of slots.... like a small city.

Regrettably we're not booming as much as we were booming in 2008, but growth is still out there. When will it end? When people stop wanting natural gas for heating, cooling, and electricity.

If someone's area is in distress, one must ask themselves, is there a future here? If you don't have a homestead, or strong ties to an area, leave for greener pastures.

I sometimes wish this area was depressed, so a lot of people would up and leave.


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## texican (Oct 4, 2003)

Ross said:


> I couldn't find a soul to work for a week or 2 last month for $15/hr. Nasty work in a cold cramped space banging tin admitedly. There are still lots of help wanted signs for retail here.


Ross, I reckon ya'll don't have an unlimited supply of undocumented workers up in Canada. If a man needs real workers for a short term, they head over to the Lowe's store and find some illegals.

If I ever get around to laying cement, I'm sure I'll have to go with a neighbor that uses illegals regularly, and get half a dozen to help me out. Good luck finding an American that want's to shovel cement all day.


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## GoldenCityMuse (Apr 15, 2009)

Yep, Texas still has quite a bit of work. Mainly because ther is virtually no Fed govt land holdings within the state. All that privately owned land by millions of people, so the small business is keeping on.


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## Montanarchist (Feb 24, 2005)

I got layed off about 3 years ago but decided to just spend more time building the house and let the DW keep working part time for materials. However, almost every time I went to the bar the first year I would be offered jobs felling trees, running a skidder, or hooking. During the last year it hasn't happened a single time.


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## springvalley (Jun 23, 2009)

I don`t know, every place I go up town seems to be busy, Wal-mart, fast food places, people seem to be spending. Granted I havn`t gone in to any places and asked , hows business doing? But around here things don`t seem as bad as other places.


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## Roadking (Oct 8, 2009)

Around here ther is zilch. BUT, we just had a "Dollar general" open in October and last week, a brand new building and "Family Dollar" opening up next to the local food market... No "Now Hiring" signs, suppose most jobs went quick. Not much in these parts except for ski instructers, etc. in winter, and life gaurds in summer. Closest Wal-mart is 10 miles, closest Home Depot is 20. 
Just have to make do, and make it work, I suppose.
Heck, even the average "on the market" time for vacation homes/also Primary homes is 6.5 months for 2009. My Doylestown, PA farmhouse has been on the market for over 4 years! Maybe I should go back into land development up here...Nahhh. Nevermind.LOL!
Matt


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## Jena (Aug 13, 2003)

My 16 year old just got a job yesterday. 

I had trouble finding a job a few years ago until I quit being so picky about the jobs! As soon as I lowered my standards..heck there were jobs everywhere! I was looking for a "real" job with benefits and all that. When there was none forthcoming, I ended up waiting tables. I love it and make $15-20/hour....sometimes more.

Low-end jobs have high turnover because those who work there typically don't have the best work ethics. If they don't have a job today, they will likely have one in a week or two due to someone quitting or getting fired. We are not hiring as much as we did in the past, but the turnover is still there.


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## Guest (Jan 28, 2010)

I worked in my Church's office about 10 years ago. We had about one person a week coming in and asking for food, lodgings, etc. Last I heard they haven't had any more or any less folks. But instead of folks coming off the interstate it's more local folks asking for stuff. The area is in decline a bit and some of the folks aren't from that town, but from the poorer town next to that one. 

It sounds like some of you are saying there's no jobs and others saying there are jobs but they're "beneath" most Americans.


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## NoClue (Jan 22, 2007)

If any of these people you know have experience in electrical engineering, especially radio or television, or any kind of RF (with or without a degree), send me a PM. My company is still hiring.


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## Forerunner (Mar 23, 2007)

Going back to the context of the original post, the problem we are facing is not a lack of work in this country. It is a lack of men and women willing to work for less than society has assured them that they are worth.
It is a lack of people willing to make sacrifices and swallow pride that a venture with a very bright long term future might be undertaken.

150 years ago, a young man didn't come to a cattle rancher and expect that rancher to fund his over-sized condo, his overpriced and overpowered 40,000 dollar pickup truck, his insurance habits, his fine dining tastes, his unrealistic desire for privacy nor his flair for the latest fashions in his wardrobe.

He simply plunked his saddle and pack by the first available bunk, ate what the grub chef was cooking, put in 15-16 hours of real work and was happy to do so for one silver dollar a day. That's a twenty dollar bill right now, artificial an exchange rate as that might currently be.

If there were young men willing to prove themselves in such a manner and put forth a real and sustained effort, I'd take on five of them today.

Got a family ? Might do better to work for housing and board for a season or longer, than starve on the streets.

Society has too long been promoting the notion that we have to be separate and independent islands unto ourselves, perfectly "self"-sustained...... so long as that economy keeps rolling......

Maybe it's time to rethink our priorities.


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## NoClue (Jan 22, 2007)

Forerunner said:


> Going back to the context of the original post, the problem we are facing is not a lack of work in this country. It is a lack of men and women willing to work for less than society has assured them that they are worth.
> It is a lack of people willing to make sacrifices and swallow pride that a venture with a very bright long term future might be undertaken.
> 
> 150 years ago, a young man didn't come to a cattle rancher and expect that rancher to fund his over-sized condo, his overpriced and overpowered 40,000 dollar pickup truck, his insurance habits, his fine dining tastes, his unrealistic desire for privacy nor his flair for the latest fashions in his wardrobe.
> ...



Respectfully, I disagree with you. 

When I was born, my dad was able to provide for his family working as a gas station attendent - that was rent for a small house in a neighborhood that wasn't plagued by crime, groceries, a car (used and paid for), utilities (gas, electric, water - a phone wasn't considered so important then) and the other incidental expenses of life, and it was done on just his income (my mom stayed home and took care of me, and later, my siblings). He made a little extra money on the side, patching and reselling tires for luxuries like eating out once in a while. We were considered middle class.

It just doesn't work that way anymore. I know people who've tried. the first thing you have to sacrifice is quality of housing - this means living in a carpy house or apartment in a carpy (dangerous) neighborhood. That might be fine when you're single (it's what I did), but not if you have a family. Even then, you usually have to live several miles from where you work, which means you need a reliable car, which means you need insurance, etc, and gas isn't 36 cents/a gallon anymore either. The list goes on and on, but it ends up the same - low-skill jobs that traditionally could sustain a family now barely sustain an individual.


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## PhilJohnson (Dec 24, 2006)

texican said:


> Ross said:
> 
> 
> > I couldn't find a soul to work for a week or 2 last month for $15/hr. Nasty work in a cold cramped space banging tin admitedly. There are still lots of help wanted signs for retail here.
> ...


There would be no trouble at all around here finding someone to work for 15 dollars an hour. Even before this recession started where I lived jobs were less then plentiful. I worked at a tree farm in 2008 for 6.50 an hour. All the help was made up of Americans, mix of kids and adults. The guy hiring had no problem finding plenty of legal citizens willing to work out in the sun all day for peanuts. He had to turn people away. Funny thing is in the next town over there is a huge tree farm and they claim the only people willing to work those type of jobs are illegals. I say BS, more like the only people you can really take advantage of are illegals. An illegal gets hurt on the job and you can tell 'em shove off. No dealing with having to pay unemployment taxes either.

There is a place in town that hires people seasonally for minimum wage packaging Christmas gift packages, every year they have more applicants than jobs. There used to be a fur farm that also had people working for 7.50 bucks an hour cleaning mink fur and feeding them. Guy I knew that worked there said those things would bite you all the time. They never had issues finding people. 

One more example is of the dairy where I used to work. I filled in a couple of times hauling can milk. That is milk in cans like the old days.










Would you work for 40 bucks for 7 hours and drive 30 miles one way to pick up the truck? While I did it for a while I figured if I was going to be paid peanuts I wanted something easier. But the other two regulars do it 6 days a week. 

I don't know if other places have a bunch of spoiled people who would rather live on the streets than work hard but it sure isn't true around here. It irritates me to no end when I hear about farmers and others complain they can't find any one that wants to work when there are so many postings on bulletin boards, Craigslist, and in the paper for people willing to do just about anything.


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## SquashNut (Sep 25, 2005)

150 years ago, the rancher didn't make as much as they do now either.


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## Tracy Rimmer (May 9, 2002)

SquashNut said:


> 150 years ago, the rancher didn't make as much as they do now either.


Where are these ranchers who are making all this money? Around here, cattlemen are lucky to come a little better than even on what they raise. I've worked for the Cattlemen's Association -- this is nothing new. Cattlemen, unless they've got thousands of acres, and thousands of head, generally count themselves lucky if they do better than break even on the beef. That's why so many of them are getting into mixed farming. Don't mistake the industrial operations for "ranchers".

And don't let beef prices in the stores fool you -- the ranchers aren't making anything like the price being charged for retail beef.


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## PhilJohnson (Dec 24, 2006)

Forerunner said:


> Going back to the context of the original post, the problem we are facing is not a lack of work in this country. It is a lack of men and women willing to work for less than society has assured them that they are worth.
> It is a lack of people willing to make sacrifices and swallow pride that a venture with a very bright long term future might be undertaken.


To put things into perspective here:

1939

Minimum wage in 1939 
$ .30 cents
Adjusted for inflation: $4.63

Cheap new car (39 Crosley Sedan)
$250 
Adjusted for inflation: $3,858.58

Average home price
$3,800.00
Adjusted for inflation: $58,650.40

1949

Minimum wage in 1949 
$ .70 cents
Adjusted for inflation: $6.31

Cheap new car (49 Crosley Hotshot)
$849 
Adjusted for inflation: $7,653.02

Average home price
$7,450.00 
Adjusted for inflation: $67,155.49

1959

Minimum wage in 1959 
$ 1.25 cents
Adjusted for inflation: $9.22

Cheap new car (59 Vespa 400)
$1,080
Adjusted for inflation: $7,962.20

Average home price
$7,450.00 
Adjusted for inflation: $67,155.49

Today

Minimum wage: $7.50
Cheap new car: $10,690 (Hyundai Accent)
Average home price: $177,900

What is really at play here is people can't simply make it. Things do cost a lot more than they used to even when adjusted for inflation. While minimum wage from 1939-1950 was lower housing was also half the amount it is today. I would bet going to the doctor and medication was a lot cheaper back in the day too. 

Swallowing ones pride and taking an 8-10 dollar an hour job means going on food stamps for most families. An economic recovery can not happen on the backs of impoverished masses. An economic recovery can't happen when the government is trying to artificially boost home prices either.

Another thing I haven't seen much in the way of jobs in my area. While it may be true where you live that there are plenty of low paying jobs the reality where I live is that there are hardly any jobs period.


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## NamasteMama (Jul 24, 2009)

:goodjob: Excellent post.

This is true where I live as well, theres no jobs. My husband has been looking for 14 months and has had 2 interviews. He's been delivering pizzas because it is the ONLY work he could find. Don't tell us to move because theres no money to move when you make $150 dollars a week. This is a right to work state so he works his fingers to the bone for $4.25 an hour! The thing that gets me mad is that we didn't get into debt, our cars are paid off, we didn't buy an overpriced home (in fact we don't own our home). We had our preps, but they arenot enough, we have run out of almost all tolietries and the kids shoes and cloths were full of holes until my inlaws had pity on us and bought them each a new pair of shoes and a few items of clothing. Land of the free home of the brave, yeah right, more like land of the inslaved and home of the impoverished.


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## Montanarchist (Feb 24, 2005)

Just a few weeks ago in our nearest large town (around 40K Pop.) a company ran an ad for a shipping manager and had 400 applicants.


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## sgl42 (Jan 20, 2004)

lack of jobs doesn't surprise me. i was warning about a coming economic storm several years early, and a few people on this forum would tell me that they'd always have a job because they weren't afraid of hard work. as if the 25% unemployment during the great depression was a sudden bout of lazyness. yeah right. 

considering the size of the wall street bailout, and stimulus spending, and all the other tricks they've played so far, and how little it's done for the economy, i expect there will be another downleg here in the stock market and the economy soon.

i suspect there are a lot of small businesses barely hanging on, hoping for an improvement, and they'll be slowly dropping out here and there for a while, and being very conservative on hiring, salaries, and expenses along the way. which then feeds into less business for whoever their suppliers were. a vicious cycle. and probably a long time (years) before there is any substantial improvement. 

get your financial house in order as fast as you can. 

--sgl


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## Forerunner (Mar 23, 2007)

When families are ready to come together and work as the unit they were intended to be,
potentially even living under one roof, or on one property instead of several.....
when young men are ready to push a broom for several days to prove themselves.....
when family men can work for a common goal for pennies in hope for the day there might again be dollars.....
when people can put aside comfort and convenience in exchange for sustainability and the generation of real material security.....
then perhaps this country will begin to right itself.

Wringing hands or sitting idle waiting for the next bleached dry bone from the political sector won't feed hungry people.

There is a difference between an abundance of jobs, and an abundance of work.

For what it's worth, I spent the years 1998, 1999 and 2000 researching court documents, legal history, American jurisprudence and the concepts of consent and intent. I set all "career" pursuits aside during that time--all of them-- because I was fighting for my life. In the two years following that, I still set aside monetary pursuits and cut brush from the surrounding township roads, giving away almost all of the firewood produced.
My family never missed a meal, and the bills, what there were of them, never went unpaid. I had no job, but I worked, to the benefit of many, and somehow it all worked out.
For those who claim belief in such a thing, where is your faith ?

Has the commercial and economic behemoth to whom you've paid your worshipful respects over the last few decades finally outgrown your "God"?


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## PhilJohnson (Dec 24, 2006)

Forerunner said:


> When families are ready to come together and work as the unit they were intended to be,
> potentially even living under one roof, or on one property instead of several.....


Like they do in third world countries, already becoming more and more common here. 



Forerunner said:


> when young men are ready to push a broom for several days to prove themselves.....


You must live in a pretty well to do area, my brother (who is 21) was actually excited when he found out there was a janitorial job opening up in town.



Forerunner said:


> when family men can work for a common goal for pennies in hope for the day there might again be dollars.....


Also just like third world countries.



Forerunner said:


> when people can put aside comfort and convenience in exchange for sustainability and the generation of real material security.....
> then perhaps this country will begin to right itself.


So in other words once this country turns into a huge crap hole full of folks who can barely make ends meet they will suddenly pour tons of money into an economy with their non-existent disposable income. Or maybe when things get so desperate here that folks emigrate to other nations they can send back remittances and that will grow the economy like other great nations such as Mexico and India. Or maybe when things get really crappy other nations can outsource to the USA and pay people peanuts.



Forerunner said:


> Wringing hands or sitting idle waiting for the next bleached dry bone from the political sector won't feed hungry people.


But changing unfair trade policies such as NAFTA, recognizing that China is unfairly manipulating their currency to make exports cheaper, and actually enforcing immigration laws just might do that. 



Forerunner said:


> Has the commercial and economic behemoth to whom you've paid your worshipful respects over the last few decades finally outgrown your "God"?


I guess I get sort of irritated when I hear people with your type of self-righteous attitude. I work once a week for 60 bucks working 8 hours helping a fella run a can milk route at 12 in the morning for extra money because there is nothing else. My friend's dad worked at a farm last summer at 59 years old making 7 bucks an hour to make ends meet. My brother has been applying for jobs anytime they come up and helps a local machine shop cut fire wood for 10-20 bucks a time. This has nothing to do with people snubbing their noses at work and everything to do with the elite snubbing their noses at the American worker and out sourcing work to other nations. Two factories where I live have shut down in the last 5 years due to this.


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## GREENCOUNTYPETE (Jul 25, 2006)

our small town square looks like an auction clearing house its only 1 block long and i can tell you the 3 bussinesses going out of buissiness in that one block 
another off the sqaure we went to the aucion for back in october and I know a few more ar ejust hanging on hoping that it will get better.

only buissinesses doing well are auto repair places apparently no one is buying a new car so thay need to get them fixed at least that was what i heard last fall that may have dried up now to as i got a 10 dollar off coupon for an oil change at a garage i used to go to when i was driving more , i took him up on it i needed an oil change and the van won't fit in the garage and we are sitting at zero degrees right now not exactly good out door oil changing weather 

i worked the food pantry last week they had the food stamp social worker there , i happend to be working the door right next to her the ammount of people that were either on them or said were over by just a few dollars each month to recive them.

we have freinds on them dad has a decent job as a ware house and shipping supervisor but with 4 kids there is no way around it 

heck i would qualify if it wasn't for my overtime , and i think i have a decent job , i have a batchlers degree in electrical enginering and computer techology but with 3 kids and a stay at home wife to watch them while i work over time to get the money to do anything but get the morgage and utilities covered 
my wife also a colledge grad was working but when we only saw a few dollars of her check each moth with the added transpotation and child care costs it just wasn't worth it.
so it's not just a bunch of stupid highschool drop outs

could i go make more money someplace else , maybe a coworker of mine took a job out on the east coast was all excited they were going to pay him almost double what he made here , he thought he figured cost of living differances , he was back in 6 months couldn't do it there , even with more money he didn't have his family support he had here.


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## texican (Oct 4, 2003)

PhilJohnson said:


> I say BS, more like the only people you can really take advantage of are illegals. An illegal gets hurt on the job and you can tell 'em shove off. No dealing with having to pay unemployment taxes either.


I don't know, but this may be part of the problem... if I hire someone, I want them to do a job. I don't want to become their momma and take care of their problems in this world. If I pay them, I expect them to work... or they wouldn't come back. You get hurt, and it's not my fault, I pay you and you leave. I shouldn't have to take out an insurance policy against stupidity... sharpened steel is sharp, barb wire will bite you, hammers hurt fingers... Now, if I have you up in a tree and you fall out, or I cut a tree down and it pops you on the noggin, well, yeah, I'll take my lumps and get you fixed. Someone suing me and lose my farm... no thanks. Unemployment? Please??? I want post holes dug, dig em, and move on. Your unemployment check will be get your hiney back up here and dig some more postholes, or bust some rocks, or dig some ditch.



NOTE *I don't hire anyone to come onto my place... I'm a tightwad skinflint who'd rather do it myself... and I dislike the notion of the 'wrong eyes' seeing all my (to me) treasure*


It's almost impossible to find anyone to do this kind of work anymore... because I'm tellin' ya'll.... any dang person can get a great paying job, if they got a gumption gear to get off the couch and ask... at least in E. Texas.

{Phil, even though I said 'you', hope you know it was a grammatical device, and not pointed at any way towards you personally )


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## ||Downhome|| (Jan 12, 2009)

you all should of been living in michigan the last couple decades!

its been like this for a long time, it gets a little worse but its already so bad a little worse isnt noticable for many. 

those with means have been fleeing the state as fast as they can, and have for decades. it goes in spurts little work then no work. and the more rural areas you always had to be creative for work but a good portion depended on the city folks geting away for the weekend and bringing there money with them. met a couple guys last year that where maybe 20 miles from me with everthing as tight as it has been they couldnt justify their regular camping trip and opted for the campgrounds near me.

the problem with leaving now is many places are feeling the pain we already know and at least here I have family and know many people and my way around so Im able to turn up a nugget here and there and make ends meet.
another issue is those that knew they where in trouble depleted their meger savings trying to stay afloat so theres no money to go. I know guys who left with only a bus ticket and a hope of doing better.

many of my freinds have left out for other places to find it just as bad as here and no way back. all I can say is at least in the warmer places of the country its may be a little easier to survive up here in the summer you could live well outside but you would freeze to death in the winter.

I wont make this political but theres enough blame to go around and Im not just talking about the politicans either.

America needs to worry about America then things might start changing for the better.


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## PhilJohnson (Dec 24, 2006)

texican said:


> I don't know, but this may be part of the problem... if I hire someone, I want them to do a job. I don't want to become their momma and take care of their problems in this world. If I pay them, I expect them to work... or they wouldn't come back. You get hurt, and it's not my fault, I pay you and you leave. I shouldn't have to take out an insurance policy against stupidity... sharpened steel is sharp, barb wire will bite you, hammers hurt fingers... Now, if I have you up in a tree and you fall out, or I cut a tree down and it pops you on the noggin, well, yeah, I'll take my lumps and get you fixed. Someone suing me and lose my farm... no thanks. Unemployment? Please??? I want post holes dug, dig em, and move on. Your unemployment check will be get your hiney back up here and dig some more postholes, or bust some rocks, or dig some ditch.


Depends on the work and if your running a business versus just hiring someone to do some simple short term labor. I have done a lot of odd jobs, in fact I work one day a week under the table. The job is very physical and if I get hurt it is on me. I am fine with that. I would never expect a short term cash job to supply anything beyond cash.

How ever in the case of two very large companies about an hour west of me (this made national news about three years ago) they were hiring massive amounts of illegal aliens. They got busted. I happen to know folks who live in that area. Plenty of folks got fired from their jobs and replaced with illegal aliens simply because an illegal had little recourse against bad policy. Funny thing was after the big bust those two companies had no problem finding US citizens to fill those jobs for the exact pay the illegals were getting.

In some places it is getting to the point someone can't even do business legally because there are so many other businesses that skirt the law and want to save a few bucks by hiring illegal aliens.

My brother and his co-worker lost their jobs at a farm because the farmer decided he didn't want high school kids on his farm any more and hired some illegals. I worked at this same farm myself a few years prior with many other kids who worked for some extra money. A lot of jobs illegals take are jobs formerly done by high school kids or ex-cons. I worked a few jobs that in most places people would only think illegal aliens would want to do them. Guess who worked there, ex-cons and kids. I don't think it is any co-incidence that prison populations have been growing right along with the population of illegal aliens. When no one will hire you it leaves a person with lots of time and in a desperate situation. These are the people illegal immigrants hurt the most.

If someone wants to run a business in the US they should abide by the law. When I ran my own trucking business for a while and I had to pay for all the proper insurance and licensing. If I hired someone I needed to pay workman's comp and unemployment insurance. It is part of being responsible. If a business has a problem with it I suggest they move to a third world country and try doing business there. When they complain no one has any money to keep the business afloat they can blame it on the fact that no one wants to pay people anything more than starvation wages.



texican said:


> It's almost impossible to find anyone to do this kind of work anymore... because I'm tellin' ya'll.... any dang person can get a great paying job, if they got a gumption gear to get off the couch and ask... at least in E. Texas.


East Texas must be in some sort of bubble. You should come up here and observe the local job market. It might change your opinion on what Americans are willing to do to make ends meet.


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## Forerunner (Mar 23, 2007)

Phil, I'm not trying to snub anyone.
My point is, America has allowed the very corporate world that is killing her to seduce her into all manner of false comfort and security, and it is simply time for the real working men and women to stand up and build their own economy.

It will take several steps back into third world status, or worse, before most will wake up to reality. I'm really not looking forward to that, but I accept it as fact and am conducting myself accordingly.

My posting here is not directed at the few on this forum that might already have their sleeves rolled up. It is directed at those who might still believe there is any good ever to come out of Washington, or that somehow, for all their whining, the congressional acts of sedition and traitor_ness_ might all just go away and we can have our manufacturing base back tomorrow morning.

The factories took men away from farm and family decades ago, as part of the "new deal". It actually began before that, but the point remains. Men became dependent upon the whims and decisions of politicians and corporations, and now the piper *will* be paid. 
No one in the history of mankind has ever owed you, me or anyone else an _economy_.


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## PhilJohnson (Dec 24, 2006)

Forerunner said:


> Phil, I'm not trying to snub anyone.
> My point is, America has allowed the very corporate world that is killing her to seduce her into all manner of false comfort and security, and it is simply time for the real working men and women to stand up and build their own economy.
> 
> It will take several steps back into third world status, or worse, before most will wake up to reality. I'm really not looking forward to that, but I accept it as fact and am conducting myself accordingly.
> ...


While I agree with what you are saying here, your earlier postings about folks not willing to bust down and work for less would seem to me at least in the area I live in to be wholly untrue. 

There might be a few folks out there who are "asleep" but there are many more regular people just trying to make ends meet who are very aware of the current slide and fully understand what is ahead and do what ever it takes to keep the lights on and the family fed.


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## NamasteMama (Jul 24, 2009)

:goodjob::goodjob::goodjob: Yup. You know what sucks is knowing whats coming down the pipes and their is not a dang thing you can do about it. Its eating your preps and knowing the worst is down the hill that your rolling down with no way to stop. It sucks. I know whats coming, I prepared and I still got hit and hit hard.


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## GREENCOUNTYPETE (Jul 25, 2006)

Phil maybe we ought to do like our freinds to the north in ontario , they are chartering flights back and forth from small old factory towns in ontario and the oil fields. they guys work 2 weeks on 2 weeks off and fly back and forth when the plane drops of the new shift the returning shift gets on and flies home to thier families it sounds like it would tear up families but it can't be as bad as mom working first shift and dad working second and still sinking cause combined they still arn't making it 
we could collect up a bunch of guys in wisconsin and charter flights back and forth to east tx fill them oil feild jobs right up , we got deisle mechanics , heavy equiptment operators , welders, electricians , machinests , drafts men, you name it we got them and they are layed off.


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## secretcreek (Jan 24, 2010)

lovinthislife said:


> my son is 19& a 1/2. He has been looking for work since he turned 17. We live in southern ohio and he has been everywhere. My other son works for walmart distribution. He got my youngest an interview and the guy told him that he didn't have any experience. Go out and get a job for 6 months and come back and we'll hire you. That was almost 2 yrs. ago. My son goes every week to the fast food restaurants and he can't find nothing. All the restaurants around here are on a skeleton crew. He's joining the Air Force because he can't find any thing else. But, the air force is cutting back too. It's bad around here.


~~~~~~~:
I live in the SE Ohio region. Our county is the poorest/has the highest unemployment in the state- which is at 18% currently. I hear you...tough times for sure. I know a woman- hard working woman with a job, she lives very frugal- raises her own beef, gardens, cans, preserves by dehydration etc... collects wood for heat, only one child...but husband not working (he does the homesteading) They have no education...and she just had her little car repo'd... missed two payments I was told. I feel so bad for her she really does work hard.

Banks are now robbed in the region frequently...and yet people are blind still to their old lifestyles of running around up to the mall, etc.

-secretcreek


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## secretcreek (Jan 24, 2010)

NamasteMama said:


> :goodjob: Excellent post.
> 
> This is true where I live as well, theres no jobs. My husband has been looking for 14 months and has had 2 interviews. He's been delivering pizzas because it is the ONLY work he could find. Don't tell us to move because theres no money to move when you make $150 dollars a week. This is a right to work state so he works his fingers to the bone for $4.25 an hour! The thing that gets me mad is that we didn't get into debt, our cars are paid off, we didn't buy an overpriced home (in fact we don't own our home). We had our preps, but they arenot enough, we have run out of almost all tolietries and the kids shoes and cloths were full of holes until my inlaws had pity on us and bought them each a new pair of shoes and a few items of clothing. Land of the free home of the brave, yeah right, more like land of the inslaved and home of the impoverished.


Wow my boys make pizzas at a nat'l chain place and they make over $7.00and they just started..no raises yet. But they don't get too many hours either.


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## NoClue (Jan 22, 2007)

Forerunner said:


> Phil, I'm not trying to snub anyone.
> My point is, America has allowed the very corporate world that is killing her to seduce her into all manner of false comfort and security, and it is simply time for the real working men and women to stand up and build their own economy.
> 
> It will take several steps back into third world status, or worse, before most will wake up to reality. I'm really not looking forward to that, but I accept it as fact and am conducting myself accordingly.
> ...


now this is a post that I can agree with


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## Kazahleenah (Nov 3, 2004)

I am lucky. I live in a VERY high unemployment area, but have a job where I get a very nice wage and can work as many hours as I want to. My job you ask? I run a CNC laythe that makes domestic gun parts. Food for thought......


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## Montanarchist (Feb 24, 2005)

Forerunner said:


> Phil, I'm not trying to snub anyone.
> My point is, America has allowed the very corporate world that is killing her to seduce her into all manner of false comfort and security, and it is simply time for the real working men and women to stand up and build their own economy.
> 
> It will take several steps back into third world status, or worse, before most will wake up to reality. I'm really not looking forward to that, but I accept it as fact and am conducting myself accordingly.
> ...


I think we are very close to government price setting on "essentials" when this happens expect to see the bartering must of do here become more common. Of course it will be labeled as Black Marketing. Long live the underground economy!


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## SquashNut (Sep 25, 2005)

The local news paper had no job ads this week and one town over only had 1.
Dh is already bartering for things. Those things are really coming in handy.


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## SquashNut (Sep 25, 2005)

prometheus said:


> I think we are very close to government price setting on "essentials" when this happens expect to see the bartering must of do here become more common. Of course it will be labeled as Black Marketing. Long live the underground economy!


Could you explain goverment price setting?


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## Montanarchist (Feb 24, 2005)

SquashNut said:


> The local news paper had no job ads this week and one town over only had 1.
> Dh is already bartering for things. Those things are really coming in handy.


Our nearest town of 40K had only paperboy and nurse jobs the last few times I looked.


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## Montanarchist (Feb 24, 2005)

SquashNut said:


> Could you explain goverment price setting?


We already have it to some extent with subsidies. But I'm talking for example, you can't charge more than $3 /gallon for milk. Historically it's been eased in with the government making up any difference if the price is set below production costs. We saw it here in '73/'74 during the arab oil embargo.

Here is the Wiki definition: 

Price controls are governmental impositions on the prices charged for goods and services in a market, usually intended to maintain the affordability of staple foods and goods, and to prevent price gouging during shortages, or, alternately, to insure an income for providers of certain goods. There are two primary forms of price control, a price ceiling, the maximum price that can be charged, and a price floor, the minimum price that can be charged.

Historically, price controls have often been imposed as part of a larger incomes policy package also employing wage controls and other regulatory elements.


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## Forerunner (Mar 23, 2007)

This mention of bartering brings me back to my original and apparently poorly stated intent. Food will be key before this is over, and long after "it" is over. 
People can prepare for this by improving their soil, now, while opportunities still exist. prepare by procuring as many strains of heirloom seed as you can grow....and maybe a bunch more for next year.
Rather than waiting for a paycheck, or a job in their economy, step outside your own door and get to work.
If you have a mortgage that is near the worth of your home, step out of it and join together with a close family member who has land.
Outside of the box ? You bet it is. 
Better to walk out now with some planning than be kicked out later with nothing.
It is near time for drastic measures.
I'd just as soon beat the rush.


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## SquashNut (Sep 25, 2005)

Forerunner said:


> This mention of bartering brings me back to my original and apparently poorly stated intent. Food will be key before this is over, and long after "it" is over.
> People can prepare for this by improving their soil, now, while opportunities still exist. prepare by procuring as many strains of heirloom seed as you can grow....and maybe a bunch more for next year.
> Rather than waiting for a paycheck, or a job in their economy, step outside your own door and get to work.
> If you have a mortgage that is near the worth of your home, step out of it and join together with a close family member who has land.
> ...


Already i am seeing shortages of some seeds i normally stock.
I stock hybryd seed too, one hybryd and 1 heirloom of each kind. I won't save seed from the hybryds though.
seeing people here starting to share their home..


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## NamasteMama (Jul 24, 2009)

We have several houses on our block whith family sharing homes. We have one house full thats the grandparents house and they have 3 of their kids,2 of their grown kids and their babies packed in a house. I also see alot of 20 somethiings moving back in with their parents here. All three of my sons best friends have lost their homes to forclosure.


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## woodsy (Oct 13, 2008)

Pretty tough all around.
Best be or start becoming self-sufficient as much as possible.
Case in point, new store opening in the area, Tractor Supply.
200 people per day for 3 days applying for 15 job openings, no bull !


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## stranger (Feb 24, 2008)

woodsy said:


> Pretty tough all around.
> Best be or start becoming self-sufficient as much as possible.
> Case in point, new store opening in the area, Tractor Supply.
> 200 people per day for 3 days applying for 15 job openings, no bull !


 those tractor supply places have sprung up every 15 miles around this area in the past 3 yrs, wonder if they'll go the way of Zares and Ames or if they'll stick around?


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## woodsy (Oct 13, 2008)

stranger said:


> those tractor supply places have sprung up every 15 miles around this area in the past 3 yrs, wonder if they'll go the way of Zares and Ames or if they'll stick around?


Good question, they built new about 1/4 mile from the Agway store thats been here forever and there is another True Value hardware and farm supply store in town also, doubt there is enough business in the area for 3 of these places , could be interesting.


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## texican (Oct 4, 2003)

NoClue said:


> Respectfully, I disagree with you.
> 
> When I was born, my dad was able to provide for his family working as a gas station attendent - that was rent for a small house in a neighborhood that wasn't plagued by crime, groceries, a car (used and paid for), utilities (gas, electric, water - a phone wasn't considered so important then) and the other incidental expenses of life, and it was done on just his income (my mom stayed home and took care of me, and later, my siblings). He made a little extra money on the side, patching and reselling tires for luxuries like eating out once in a while. We were considered middle class.
> 
> It just doesn't work that way anymore. I know people who've tried. the first thing you have to sacrifice is quality of housing - this means living in a carpy house or apartment in a carpy (dangerous) neighborhood. That might be fine when you're single (it's what I did), but not if you have a family. Even then, you usually have to live several miles from where you work, which means you need a reliable car, which means you need insurance, etc, and gas isn't 36 cents/a gallon anymore either. The list goes on and on, but it ends up the same - low-skill jobs that traditionally could sustain a family now barely sustain an individual.


I remember my parent's living an austere lifestyle early on (when I was old enough to remember such things). It was austere. Plain food. Old tv. No radio (except in the Rambler). One vehicle. Bare walled house. Eating out? Maybe every two months if we were lucky.

Know anyone that's going to live with an old beater car? Tiny house or apt.? No drinking, no drugs, or tobacco? No color tv, dvr, dvd? No playstation for the kid, each having their own computer, satellite, and vehicle as soon as they're old enough to drive? No eating whatever they want? No eating out several or more, times a week? No fancy truck & car for each?

If people wanted to live like their parents did, they could. They would be pariahs in the community, but it's possible.

Anyone today living on minimum wage has problems.... mental or physical, or both, or some kind of bad attitude, or addictions... minimum wage is for entry level kids... Any adult on minimum wage, and doesn't have the problems mentioned above, should reevaluate their life, and get some better education, or move away from a depressed area to an area where there are better opportunities.

I've lived in the past quite comfortably on less than my parents made back in the sixties (and with inflation that's saying something). Friends, neighbors, and relatives thought I was brick shy of a load. All the time I was accumulating hard assets, and foregoing the ephemerals. Now, quite a few of them are close to the same boat I'm in, without any hard assets... but they sure drove a fancy rig for a few years. One of my sisters sold her land, bought vehicles, and now have beater vehicles, and no assets. My hard assets are worth ten times what I paid for them.


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## Forerunner (Mar 23, 2007)

Texican, I see more we have in common every time you post.


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## NamasteMama (Jul 24, 2009)

Texican, I totally disagree with you. My husband is making minimum wage because there are no other jobs. He has two degrees one in finance and one in biology. On minimum wage there is zero possibility of moving, theres no way we could come up with the $3500 to move. If we could move then what? Hopes theres better jobs? Or find out like many others have that there is no jobs and then your stuck in a town with no family. At least where we are we have family which is very important. You thoughts are based on a ideological situation and not upon the hard hitting and crushing reality of the depression we are in. 

BTW our cars are paid for, they are both old one form 1991 and the other from 1993, we have no debt, no flat screens, no toys, We never eat out, we have one 20 inch TV with a hand me down DVD player and my computer which I use for business. So please tell me do we have problems?


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## texican (Oct 4, 2003)

PhilJohnson said:


> East Texas must be in some sort of bubble. You should come up here and observe the local job market. It might change your opinion on what Americans are willing to do to make ends meet.


Yes, Phil, we are in a bubble. Started about 1930. We have oil and gas, timber, coal, and lots of chicken houses. Things were growing along at a regular pace, till a few years back, when they discovered the fifth and sixth new gas formations... maybe 50 out of possibly 10,000 of the new wells have been drilled. Before the new formations were 'discovered', the bubble had went from a huge bubble to just a respectable bubble... afterwards, it went back to full bubble. County below me is turning from a pauper county (Texas has a Robin Hood Plan, where rich school districts pay the bills of nearby poor districts...... totally evil... it's the state's responsibility, not the individual districts responsibilities... but that's another discussion ) county to a rich one. Folks are getting six and seven figure checks, moving out of 40 yr old single wides into McMansions...

The 'bubble' will continue as long as people like to drive cars, have warm homes, and have electricity.

We're dealing with basic wealth... pure and simple, better than gold or silver mines. At the bottom of the pillar of current civilization lies energy. Without it, Civi disappears. Civi can live without a lot of things, but without the basics, we're back to the 18th century (which would be hunky dory with me... as long as I can keep my solar panels, notebook, and dvds/mp3s.

Locals still do the same jobs found elsewhere in the country... but when 18yr olds are making 40 or 50k beating pipes, that money flows back throughout the economy.... making those businesses prosper also.


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## texican (Oct 4, 2003)

GREENCOUNTYPETE said:


> Phil maybe we ought to do like our freinds to the north in ontario , they are chartering flights back and forth from small old factory towns in ontario and the oil fields. they guys work 2 weeks on 2 weeks off and fly back and forth when the plane drops of the new shift the returning shift gets on and flies home to thier families it sounds like it would tear up families but it can't be as bad as mom working first shift and dad working second and still sinking cause combined they still arn't making it
> we could collect up a bunch of guys in wisconsin and charter flights back and forth to east tx fill them oil feild jobs right up , we got deisle mechanics , heavy equiptment operators , welders, electricians , machinests , drafts men, you name it we got them and they are layed off.


Don't come down here saying your a diesel mechanic... without body guards. The local dealerships have trouble keeping them on staff... the oil field steals them away... Evil old oil companies...

I don't know about the 2 week on 2 off deal... a lot of the oil field hands I know are 24/7... they do get time off, but there on call, and are expected to go out whenever/wherever and get er fixed. A compressor goes down, it might be losing tens of thousands of dollars an hour... the person owning the compressor wants it fixed muy pronto... and they pay dearly for reliability.


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## denaliguide (Aug 30, 2008)

I figured that if we downshifted and downsized intentionally and gracefully it could happen good and easier than if it forced upon us.

So, wrenching for some, figuring what important, and getting the best matrix of comfort and function, it will be more important to spend less, not live worse. For families who have kids, the kids must see that to use less, and have more fun is better. This requires that the kids unplug some,and pull their weight. Smaller houses, less expensive, fewer and more practical cars. Fewer time payments,pay off the ones you got and dont start new ones. LESS STUFF, maybe a part time job.
I was able to do that and live on entry level jobs, married, without the spouse working. Extra spousal income can be banked. If you dont have real estate, you could do well to have some pre 65 US silver, as a mobile reserve, gas money or insurance against currency rot. Take a step today, any step, give yourself a vision, so something for someone else, it will help.
Abundance, in one form or another, is all around you...........

DG




Forerunner said:


> Going back to the context of the original post, the problem we are facing is not a lack of work in this country. It is a lack of men and women willing to work for less than society has assured them that they are worth.
> It is a lack of people willing to make sacrifices and swallow pride that a venture with a very bright long term future might be undertaken.
> 
> 150 years ago, a young man didn't come to a cattle rancher and expect that rancher to fund his over-sized condo, his overpriced and overpowered 40,000 dollar pickup truck, his insurance habits, his fine dining tastes, his unrealistic desire for privacy nor his flair for the latest fashions in his wardrobe.
> ...


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## sidepasser (May 10, 2002)

NamasteMama said:


> Texican, I totally disagree with you. My husband is making minimum wage because there are no other jobs. He has two degrees one in finance and one in biology. On minimum wage there is zero possibility of moving, theres no way we could come up with the $3500 to move. If we could move then what? Hopes theres better jobs? Or find out like many others have that there is no jobs and then your stuck in a town with no family. At least where we are we have family which is very important. You thoughts are based on a ideological situation and not upon the hard hitting and crushing reality of the depression we are in.
> 
> BTW our cars are paid for, they are both old one form 1991 and the other from 1993, we have no debt, no flat screens, no toys, We never eat out, we have one 20 inch TV with a hand me down DVD player and my computer which I use for business. So please tell me do we have problems?


You don't pay to move the whole family at once..hubby hunts and finds job first - gets company to agree to pay for relocation expense and then you send hubby off to find a house. Once house is found, hubby sends for you and the kids.

Many people are having to do this because as Sam Kinneson says (to paraphrase) "GO WHERE THE JOBS ARE!!"

Truly it is the only way to make it if there are no available jobs in your area. Sure you hate to move, scared to be away from family, but if you look at it in another manner it can be an adventure, a learning experience and put some cash in the bank. Also the road runs both ways..there and back again..you can always come home.

I am in the position of having to decide whether I want to be unemployed in Georgia or employed in Ohio in the middle of the rust belt. I don't know anyone in Ohio, no family or friends. So..I could stay in Georgia and be unemployed for a year or two trying to find a job, or I could move to Ohio and still look for a job back home. Which makes better sense? Broke and too broke to move if I found a job somewhere else or employed and able to fly back home to be interviewed closer to family?

I have two months in which to find a job locally or move..I am looking locally and planning on moving. Not such a tough decision when it comes down to it. That's what the phone and internet are for..communication with family and use a web cam to holler "hi y'all".

People have to realize either they will need to move where the jobs are and not wait until they are so broke they can't buy gas..or stay where they are forever and be broke or underemployed for years. The economy doesn't turn around overnight and if you can make 20.00 a hour living four hours away..it is very hard not to do that when the alternative is a minimum wage job or less with no hope of advancement in wages or position.

Other than that - you can try to start your own business or do something similiar, but even that takes a small amount of start up cash, even ebay costs a bit for listing things.

You might want to reconsider moving if hubby can land a job elsewhere - he has two degrees, I am sure one or the other could be used in another town/city/state or heck - country.


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## PhilJohnson (Dec 24, 2006)

texican said:


> Yes, Phil, we are in a bubble. Started about 1930. We have oil and gas, timber, coal, and lots of chicken houses.
> 
> Locals still do the same jobs found elsewhere in the country... but when 18yr olds are making 40 or 50k beating pipes, that money flows back throughout the economy.... making those businesses prosper also.


Would be tempting to go down there and make some fast cash but the heat would probably kill me :help: Got some heavy construction experience along with welding. Would never be able live there long term. I like my cool weather too much 

Other idea I had was go up to Alaska for a while but it would be pretty darn expensive to start out. I have no where near enough money for a month's expenses plus gas to get up there.


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## PhilJohnson (Dec 24, 2006)

sidepasser said:


> You don't pay to move the whole family at once..hubby hunts and finds job first - gets company to agree to pay for relocation expense and then you send hubby off to find a house. Once house is found, hubby sends for you and the kids.
> 
> Many people are having to do this because as Sam Kinneson says (to paraphrase) "GO WHERE THE JOBS ARE!!"
> 
> ...


The problem I have with this is most places that have good job markets are super crowded, expensive, and have a ton of rules. While I may be wishing for things that will never return, it used to be one could actually make a decent living in a rural area. Now with rural factories being shut down left and right and farm product prices in the gutter the US is starting to mirror the nations of South America. Lots and lots of money in large cities while the rural areas are impoverished.

This will only get worse as time goes on I fear for rural folks except for those folks lucky enough to live near black gold (like that spoiled Texican fella ). It is starting to be the only choice for folks who want to stay rural (like me) is to go over the road for work. I have seen a lot of ruined families stemming from over the road type work. The people are crude, the long weeks on the road burn people out, and there is a lot of drug use. I know, I used to work over the road myself. Will I do it again, yes if I have to, but it is far from my first choice.

Most of my friends have moved to the big city, that is where the work is. But the massive amounts of folks, the stupid little rules, and the retarded amounts of traffic keep me away no matter how good the job market is. I guess I would rather live free and poor in the country than rich and bound by the chains of ridiculous regulations and nosey neighbors in the city or near it.


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## ChristieAcres (Apr 11, 2009)

> Forerunner-
> Going back to the context of the original post, the problem we are facing is not a lack of work in this country. It is a lack of men and women willing to work for less than society has assured them that they are worth.


In some cases, this is true. In others, not so true. There are parts of our Country in terrible economic conditions with virtually no jobs available. Others, more like described, with jobs few seem to want or lower themselves to (not for long). In still others, notice the TX posts, unemployment is much lower, and there are plenty of employment opportunities.

DD is 21, moved to Vail, CO, to get a job (has other aspirations, too). She currently works for a high end resort, soon to go bankrupt, but this is for the season of her own setting. She works as a waitress, does room service, and also her weekly "gig," paid to sing/play guitar every week. This work pays her very well. Worried? She isn't as she is a real go-getter with a high work ethic. DD will be moving to New York on March 1st, to pursuit her ambitions, and will likely take a job as a waitress while doing so. She doesn't think she is "too good" to work at any job she can get, however she does try to get the best she can.

DS is 20, just moved from Seattle, WA, to Denver, CO in December 2009. When he couldn't find work quickly? He left 3 weeks later, for Austin TX. Prior to his move, he & I researched the areas of the Country with the lowest unemployment rates. Within one week, he was offered a job as a pizza cook (Italian style- tossed crust); yes he is experienced in this from Seattle. Just this week, he took on a 2nd part time job dipping strawberries in chocolate. DS is saving his money to pay cash for a car and living below his means. He doesn't think he is "too good" to work at doing almost anything. I had to talk him out of 16 hour days dipping strawberries, recommending no more than 12 (sleep is under-rated by the young).

My DH & I are self-employed, and business has been tough. So, he is cutting apart a 19 ton dozer (not repairable) he was given, and will be hauling it for the value of scrap (will net around $2,000). Why? He is in between paying jobs (Machinist/Welder works out of home shop, also does Mobile Welding). My work has not netted nearly enough to help contribute to pay for our living expenses, so I just started last week as an Office Assistant/Warehouse Gen'l employee for a very successful internet business. I am being paid $10/hour to do what I consider busy, but easy work & I feel blessed to get this job (I won't post what I normally make, but it is A LOT more than that). A friend of mine owns this business. Just yesterday, I was her "photographer" to get much better shots of her staff & some products. I just got certified as a Care Provider, yet again, to insure I had another backup. I have a BA degree, multiple certifications in a number of fields, am IT certified, and have no shortage of business skills. Neither DH or myself feel we are too good to work at what most consider beneath our skillsets. We aren't leaving our homestead, yet, but would leave if we had to. Lately, we have been discussing getting some land in Alaska if our finances improve... 

Here, when a job is posted, HUNDREDS apply. That shows not a lack of willingness to work, but an obvious lack of employment opportunities.


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## texican (Oct 4, 2003)

NamasteMama said:


> Texican, I totally disagree with you. My husband is making minimum wage because there are no other jobs. He has two degrees one in finance and one in biology. On minimum wage there is zero possibility of moving, theres no way we could come up with the $3500 to move. If we could move then what? Hopes theres better jobs? Or find out like many others have that there is no jobs and then your stuck in a town with no family. At least where we are we have family which is very important. You thoughts are based on a ideological situation and not upon the hard hitting and crushing reality of the depression we are in.
> 
> BTW our cars are paid for, they are both old one form 1991 and the other from 1993, we have no debt, no flat screens, no toys, We never eat out, we have one 20 inch TV with a hand me down DVD player and my computer which I use for business. So please tell me do we have problems?


Respectfully, yes, you do have problems... like ~17% of Americans... they live in economically distressed areas that offer them nothing but familiarity.

Again, respectfully, I don't really know what your talking about when you say ideological situation. I told anyone that wanted to listen, that jobs (high paying ones) are going unfilled, with 13 miles of where I live. If anyone wishes, I'll post phone numbers next week.

I think I mentioned that I know many people exactly like you folks are in... things (work) is almost non existent in their area, and yet they won't leave because they have family in the area.

People have always been thus... they'd rather suffer with what they know, than risk non-suffering with what they don't know.

This IS a survival and emergency preparedness forum. I visit to learn and share... tips on how to survive now, and after the fall of civilization. What if this IS the beginning of the end. What if those jobs never come back, they're gone forever. If your debt free, then minimum wage is survivable... beats being underwater on mortgage and other loans.

If I lost my business tomorrow, and the world stopped needing energy, and all the local jobs evaporated, I'd not leave this area... so I know what your talking about (wanting to stay put). I could double my income by moving to DFW, but I'd not like the living there.

Degrees mean nothing in the world of hard knocks. I have several degrees, but aren't using them in the slightest. If I'd waited for work in my degrees to arrive, I'd still be waiting. 

Truly sorry if I ruffled yours, or anyone's feathers....


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## texican (Oct 4, 2003)

PhilJohnson said:


> Would be tempting to go down there and make some fast cash but the heat would probably kill me :help: Got some heavy construction experience along with welding. Would never be able live there long term. I like my cool weather too much
> 
> Other idea I had was go up to Alaska for a while but it would be pretty darn expensive to start out. I have no where near enough money for a month's expenses plus gas to get up there.


Do you have your welding certifications? One of my neighbors owns a pipeline construction company... they're always needing welders.

Agree on the heat. Even when I did do construction/handyman type work, I tried to price myself OUT of any job requiring full sun exposure... just wasn't worth it.

The money is great in AK... like you said, getting there can be troublesome. When I went, I knew I had a job beforehand, and the credit card was my friend... the first paycheck would pay off the card, and it was saving time from then on out till the end of the season, and then the last check would get me home.


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## PhilJohnson (Dec 24, 2006)

texican said:


> Do you have your welding certifications?


Unfortunately no I don't. Most of the places locally only required one to pass a weld test so out of the interest of not spending any money I never bothered to get certified.



texican said:


> The money is great in AK... like you said, getting there can be troublesome. When I went, I knew I had a job beforehand, and the credit card was my friend... the first paycheck would pay off the card, and it was saving time from then on out till the end of the season, and then the last check would get me home.


For me I think AK's climate would work better. My friends call me a polar bear because of my cold weather tolerance. I'll wear flip flops, T-shirt, and shorts even when the weather dips into the 30s. As long as I am working I can get away with wearing a light jacket all the way down to 20 below. 

If I can make enough to pay off the house in one year I'll be able to make it just fine on peanuts (less than 6k).


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## GoldenCityMuse (Apr 15, 2009)

On that dozer being cut up for scrap, you might want to look at selling the parts online, you could get a lot more than scrap steel prices. I would imagine that hydraulic shafts and the like would be wanted by someone else with the same model dozer.

The only thing I sell for scrap is alum cans, and seized up engines.

Regarding hundreds of people showing up for posted jobs: If that is what you are doing, you have a tough row to hoe. If I recall from What Color is Your Parachute, 70, 80 or even 90% of PRIVATE SECTOR jobs are never posted at all, they are word of mouth. That is why Texican & some of the others talk about the hard work ethic. Even volunteering at some place & reliably showing up will get you into some jobs that are only passed around by mouth.

My daughter by marriage found her job last week by just such a method. SHe has a good friend who knew of an insurance job, who said DD would be good at it. Presto, $10/hr job!

Again, the best job openings are never posted at ALL! Just look in different ways thru friends who work.


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## mtfarmchick (Feb 18, 2003)

I live close to the Northwestern North Dakota border, near Williston. Last year the oilfield was so busy and took so many employees from other jobs that the other businesses in town either had to shut down for lack of help or offer high wages and sign on bonuses. I'm not just talking about office and degree reguired type jobs. Mcdonald's offered a $300 sign on bonus with a $10/ hour starting wage. Everywhere you looked someone was looking for help. I think the hiring craze has leveled off now, at least for those support industries. The oilfield is still hiring. It would be worth looking into if someone was interested. I would be happy to give anyone an idea of what the area is like, just PM me with your questions. I will answer to the best of my knowledge.


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## NoClue (Jan 22, 2007)

texican said:


> I remember my parent's living an austere lifestyle early on (when I was old enough to remember such things). It was austere. Plain food. Old tv. No radio (except in the Rambler). One vehicle. Bare walled house. Eating out? Maybe every two months if we were lucky.
> 
> Know anyone that's going to live with an old beater car? Tiny house or apt.? No drinking, no drugs, or tobacco? No color tv, dvr, dvd? No playstation for the kid, each having their own computer, satellite, and vehicle as soon as they're old enough to drive? No eating whatever they want? No eating out several or more, times a week? No fancy truck & car for each?
> 
> ...


I tried to point out that it wasn't an austere life.

When I was a manager and interviewed and hired people, I was suprised at how many people can get well into adulthood without ever acquiring any skills at all. The worst ones are those with degrees but no skills.

The entry level postions that I hired for started well above minimum wage. Repeatedly I had kids just out of college who expected to start at a salary greater than mine and just laughed at the salary I had to offer. I'd wish them luck and move on to the next candidate. The kids that did take the salary usually didn't stay long, because they found the jobs beneath them.


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## unregistered29228 (Jan 9, 2008)

AngieM2 said:


> have any of the people looking for work signed up with a Contract Work place? Rather like those office places "Kelly Services" or "Manpower" , but there are ones that are for more technical - long term contracts?


Manpower saved me years ago when I was out of a job. They assigned me an assortment of clerical type jobs for different clients, and I was eventually hired by one of them. Plus, they have contacts for everything from construction to white collar.


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## jlxian (Feb 14, 2005)

Andy Nonymous said:


> I know someone does contract services, and his work has gone from nearly full time 5 years ago (in a chronically economically depressed area), to less than 20 hours a week 3 years ago, to about 20 hours a month now. As he says, "it's not enough to live on, but there's nothing else out there. I just gotta hang on until something better comes along... or until I got nothing left to lose."


Exactly like here. DH signed up last year with Manpower and was lucky to get called once a month. He finally signed up for substitute teaching and has had better luck with that.


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## ladybug (Aug 18, 2002)

No work here either, people with college degrees can't get a job at Mcdonalds. I've been looking since November 2008 for work, I was self-employed until I was laid off so I don't qualify for Unemployment benefits. You should see how many businesses in my area have closed their doors for good (was the fastest growing county in the state for years) and neighborhoods full of beautiful but empty houses that either never sold or were foreclosed upon. Alot of house builders here were even foreclosed on, it's unreal! This is a video of a few of the empty places here,probably 100 neighborhoods just like it or more around here [ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eXa10LAhve8[/ame] .


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## soulsurvivor (Jul 4, 2004)

ladybug said:


> You should see how many businesses in my area have closed their doors for good (was the fastest growing county in the state for years) and neighborhoods full of beautiful but empty houses that either never sold or were foreclosed upon. Alot of house builders here were even foreclosed on, it's unreal! This is a video of a few of the empty places here,probably 100 neighborhoods just like it or more around here http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eXa10LAhve8 .


Why can't someone figure out a way to give these homes to homeless down on their luck people? Anything would be better than allowing people to be without shelter while all these homes sit and rot. What a waste! Why can't coporates invest in people for a change?


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## woodsy (Oct 13, 2008)

Well fortunately for some of us, this is not the first economic disaster we've been through and probably won't be the last.
Up here in these parts, like other parts of the country, we are no strangers to hard economic times . Being at the end of the economic chain, we are the first to feel the pinch and last to recover.
These lessons serve to make one set themselves up for such times by paying things off , mortgages , cars etc. , and paying as you go, or don't go.
Yes, less can be more.
Before buying any large ticket items, I ask myself how much of my time working for someone else am I willing to give up for that item.
The answer usually comes out to be none.


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## NamasteMama (Jul 24, 2009)

soulsurvivor said:


> Why can't someone figure out a way to give these homes to homeless down on their luck people? Anything would be better than allowing people to be without shelter while all these homes sit and rot. What a waste! Why can't coporates invest in people for a change?


 People should research what squatters rights are in their area. I think we may see quite a bit of this coming .


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## bee (May 12, 2002)

I feel that a very good reason why "homeless people" are not GIVEN forclosed houses can be found in how much of the low/no income housing is treated by those living in it. I have heard from reputable sources of the total distruction of the housing because 1) there is no money for upkeep/utilites and 2) "it is not mine, why should I care??". Please don't jump down my throat on this, there are of course deserving folks/FAMILIES who would do their very best at the maintance. But no job and no money for basics like soap, where would the money come from to fix a leak in the roof? And are these foreclosed homes even liveable?? I do remember seeing in the news how forclosed and forced to evacuate, the owner stripped the house right down to the plumbing and light bulbs if they did not do worse and commit major vandalism. And who is responsble if someone allowed to live in a forclosed home if the residents are injured or the house burns down?

I admit to being "well placed" in that my home is paid for and my only debts past utilites and insurances is 2 credit cards well below 7,000 total debt and rapidly being retired. I have no children to worry over food,healthcare and future education. I have nieces with young children and money woes. They, however, MUST have the latetest best cellphones and service, must have the huge flat screen tv's and later model cars. Thier mother(my sister) finally confessed to our mother that she is "in" 35,000 over a period of years for her 2 daughters and her husbands 2 boys by his first marriage that she raised. Much of this is the younger generation being bailed out of poor choices. STANDING ON THE SIDELINES, I think they have done their children a dis-service as they now are independant but dependant. I am thankfull to never have had to make the choices my sister and many others have.

I have a great deal of compassion for those without jobs facing a move in hopes of finding work. My only(untried) advise would be to not wait until your resources are so drained that you can't make the attempt. Should I lose my job, the plan is to give myself reasonable time to find another, but move before all my resourses are gone.
Good luck all those curently looking.


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## roolover (Jul 16, 2007)

I left a job in suburban Detroit in Oct of 2008 where the writing was on the wall, for a job with potential in a growing company in rural NY, which lasted 6 months when future contracts dried up. If I'd have stayed in MI, the job would have lasted 3 months. Then what? 

I've been out of "work" since, but far from out of things to do. We're working on making the farm viable and developing a network of contacts and connections that can barter.

People have to eat, and with the current level of food imports and national debt, there will come a time when other nations won't sell to us because our paper will be worth more in the outhouse than in a pocket. I worry for those who don't have skills or products worth bartering for. I don't need RV's or DVR's, or someone to mow the lawn - I need to pay the tax man who would remove us from this place if we don't keep up with his ever increasing levy (to provide assistance to those who can't pay his levy), and I doubt he can be paid in food just yet.


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## Aintlifegrand (Jun 3, 2005)

PhilJohnson said:


> To put things into perspective here:
> 
> 1939
> 
> ...


Never has there been a better, more reasoned post on this subject that I have seen on this forum.. good job. Ecellent job explaining wage stagnation


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## Aintlifegrand (Jun 3, 2005)

PhilJohnson said:


> Unfortunately no I don't. Most of the places locally only required one to pass a weld test so out of the interest of not spending any money I never bothered to get certified.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I live just over the border in Louisiana from Carthage Tx so our weather is the same...while it is hot down here..it is not unbearable except from July 4th to Labor day... and don't forget the wonderful invention of AC that is prevalent here..I lived in AK and loved it as well but you are right about the cost...


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## PhilJohnson (Dec 24, 2006)

Aintlifegrand said:


> Never has there been a better, more reasoned post on this subject that I have seen on this forum.. good job. Ecellent job explaining wage stagnation


Thanks, I think wage stagnation is an issue most people don't think of. Another thing people don't take into account is the number of jobs that now require an education that in times past never required one. One has to spend money to stay employed today. The days of an employer training someone are over.



Aintlifegrand said:


> I live just over the border in Louisiana from Carthage Tx so our weather is the same...while it is hot down here..it is not unbearable except from July 4th to Labor day... and don't forget the wonderful invention of AC that is prevalent here..I lived in AK and loved it as well but you are right about the cost...


I have a feeling your definition of unbearable is different from mine  Most of my skills are outdoor skills so unless they have AC hats I don't think I could take it for long. Maybe I could invent an AC hat and make millions


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## Aintlifegrand (Jun 3, 2005)

PhilJohnson said:


> Thanks, I think wage stagnation is an issue most people don't think of. Another thing people don't take into account is the number of jobs that now require an education that in times past never required one. One has to spend money to stay employed today. The days of an employer training someone are over.
> 
> *
> 
> I have a feeling your definition of unbearable is different from mine  Most of my skills are outdoor skills so unless they have AC hats I don't think I could take it for long. Maybe I could invent an AC hat and make millions *




I'd buy one that's for sure.. I am outside all summer with the farm..the humidity is the worst..


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## texican (Oct 4, 2003)

soulsurvivor said:


> Why can't someone figure out a way to give these homes to homeless down on their luck people? Anything would be better than allowing people to be without shelter while all these homes sit and rot. What a waste! Why can't coporates invest in people for a change?


One of the root problem of our current fiscal mess can be traced back to trying to put people that never would have qualified for homes, Into homes. Forcing banks to issue loans to deadbeats, fruit pickers, homeless people, and then the banks selling this toxic paper, then it got repackaged and guaranteed by the Govt. Some people aren't destined for homes.

Honest to goodness homeless down on their luck people have varieties of mental and physical problems, which preclude them from ever taking care of a house. You could put a bum in a mansion, and it'd fall apart from neglect... sort of like all public housing.

Homeless people have always been around, and always will be... until the shtf or teotwawki arrives, and then they'll quietly (hopefully) fade away, like 95% of the rest of humanity.


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## ChristieAcres (Apr 11, 2009)

I was driving to a friends' house, and noticed two police cars parked on the side of the road, while two Policeman were speaking to an obvious homeless guy. What struck me as so strange was the trailer he was squatting in was next to the road, on a WATERFRONT high end property. There was a bunch of debris and garbage all around it; the trailer was in a deplorable filthy condition with a tarp over it. I asked my friend that day about it. What I didn't notice, but found out? I hadn't spotted the other homeless guy's legs sticking out of the trailer (he had died in there). That was the reason for the Police (died of natural causes, it was maintained). I thought it was because they were squatting?!


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## soulsurvivor (Jul 4, 2004)

The older I get the less tolerance I have for easy canned attitudes and answers to problems. Why would I bother to join that same crowd? In this world the needs of individuals are rarely acknowledged when compared to the needs of systems. Banks have never been forced to do anything they weren't already in place to do. They function very well in this parasitic world. This is a world without mercy. Unless and until we as humans place our first trust in each other rather than systems, we can forget about building a better world for those of us yet to come. 

ok, stepping off my mini soapbox here and just to add that organizations like Habitat for Humanity should get involved in securing homes that are non-inhabited to house people who are desperate to put a roof/shelter over their families' heads. Why spend billions in monies and time to reinvent the wheel? Invest in people.


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## WisJim (Jan 14, 2004)

Regarding Manpower type of jobs, my wife used to work through a local job service similar to manpower, and in addition to occasional jobs that were sometimes interesting, she got lots of computer training so that when a permanent job she was interested in came along, she was qualified on the computer end for the job. In the meantime, the job service only sent her to the kind of jobs she was qualified for, and she soon was in demand to fill in for office help or receptionists who were sick or on family leave. Two of my sons also got jobs through another service, and one of them became permanent at the company and now works 50+ hours a week and has good benefits, and is looking to buy a house. The other of that pair of sons decided to go back to school, and is almost done with that, while the third son who is self employed bought a house for cash(out of savings) last year and keeps raising his hourly rate for the work that he does, because he doesn't need to make a lot of money to sustain his lifestyle. He lives in town so he walks or bikes most places, drives a 15+ year old car, and does a lot of things with friends and neighbors for cheap entertainment.


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## denaliguide (Aug 30, 2008)

that quite simply the fabric of the "social contract" cobbled up after WW2 was ripped up by the super rich who want their money back. By "Their Money" I simply mean the money, wealth and materials for a decent standard of living that we to others than the Super Rich. Indeed the SUPER RICH got even richer from all this but decided that People Power was dangerous and would one day dilute their power base. So now that they have pulled the rug from under everyone, including themselves, there will be Hard Times for all, and even their power base will shrink, but less relatively than those of us who live less securely in our lives than they do.

Not to fear, the tough ones, the innovators, the ambitious will survive and do it well. The casualty here will be our humanity, and trust for each other as competition for all sorts of resources intensifies. Our hardest task now is to teach others to survive and maintain their humanity at the same time.

DG



soulsurvivor said:


> The older I get the less tolerance I have for easy canned attitudes and answers to problems. Why would I bother to join that same crowd? In this world the needs of individuals are rarely acknowledged when compared to the needs of systems. Banks have never been forced to do anything they weren't already in place to do. They function very well in this parasitic world. This is a world without mercy. Unless and until we as humans place our first trust in each other rather than systems, we can forget about building a better world for those of us yet to come.
> 
> ok, stepping off my mini soapbox here and just to add that organizations like Habitat for Humanity should get involved in securing homes that are non-inhabited to house people who are desperate to put a roof/shelter over their families' heads. Why spend billions in monies and time to reinvent the wheel? Invest in people.


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## where I want to (Oct 28, 2008)

soulsurvivor said:


> The older I get the less tolerance I have for easy canned attitudes and answers to problems. Why would I bother to join that same crowd? In this world the needs of individuals are rarely acknowledged when compared to the needs of systems. Banks have never been forced to do anything they weren't already in place to do. They function very well in this parasitic world. This is a world without mercy. Unless and until we as humans place our first trust in each other rather than systems, we can forget about building a better world for those of us yet to come.
> 
> ok, stepping off my mini soapbox here and just to add that organizations like Habitat for Humanity should get involved in securing homes that are non-inhabited to house people who are desperate to put a roof/shelter over their families' heads. Why spend billions in monies and time to reinvent the wheel? Invest in people.


Insta-slum


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## tiffnzacsmom (Jan 26, 2006)

This area hasn't really grown much since the 80's when the steel mills went down, unless you work in the medical or mortgage fields you'll be hard pressed to get a highly paying job but jobs are there. My company is hiring full and part time with benefits for either position you just have to be able to pass criminal background checks and have a clean driving record. Of course you have to work too, not always physically but mentally for sure. I know not everywhere has tons of jobs but if you look you can find something. 

I do have a question for some of the people who have posted though, if you say one spouse is only working part time trying to support the family what is the other spouse doing? My ex and I tried to always work opposite shifts so one of us were home with the kids and we didn't need to pay for child care. Most of our marriage he worked nights and I worked days and some places even pay a shift differential if you work overnight. OR a lot of companies dealing with mental health, like mine, offer block schedules where you work 24 hours or whatever straight through and you are done for the week. My schedule is from 7 pm Friday till 12:30 am Sunday/Monday with 16 hours of unpaid sleep time. I started that shift when he got a daylight job so we could still always have someone home.


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## Pack Rat (Nov 9, 2006)

I checked into yahoo a few minutes ago and the top headline read *"Job losses from Great Recession about to get worse" (AP)*. On clicking the link, it went to an article titled *"January unemployment rate drops unexpectedly to 9.7 pct"*, with some pretty obvious bluster.

ETA: The original article can be found here: http://wvgazette.com/ap/ApTopStories/201002050043


> WASHINGTON (AP) - Job losses during the Great Recession have been huge and they're about to get bigger.
> 
> When the Labor Department releases the January unemployment report Friday, it will also update its estimate of jobs lost in the year that ended in March 2009. The number is expected to rise by roughly 800,000, raising the number of jobs shed during the recession to around 8 million.
> 
> ...



It looks like the replacement article is by the same author, dealing with the actual numbers released today, only with a far more positive spin.


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## hintonlady (Apr 22, 2007)

Clearly late to the conversation but, about finding jobs:

I think it's all a matter of where you live and what your skill sets and attitude are. 

DH is a farm equipment road tech, he was self taught. His brother is a licensed, published architecht who makes less. DH has had his current job for over 2 years the previous was a decade. 

He put out his resume to some headhunters in order to get the current job. They didn't need him but created a position for him because his skill set was impossible to pass up. All he had to do was grunt it out at a menial job with awful bosses for a decade. He busted his hump to learn and to give 150%. Due to that commitment he saw through he propelled himself forward by leaps and bounds.

All this time later one of the headhunters called him with 2 new job prospects. It's not the first time that has happened. I attribute this to his extremely dedicated work ethic even in the face of difficult situations. Most people want to get paid for poor effort and whiney attitudes. That just won't cut it anymore.

His company has semi skilled jobs that they constantly hire for but turnover in the semi skilled positions is high. The workers tend to be less reliable and less hard working. They never invested in an education, be it at a school or hands on at a job.

My point is that having a trade is incredibly valuable. When college educated people are working fast food jobs one really has to prioritize. The prep here would be to go against conventional thought and see the writing on the walls. Experience and work ethic now trump education. Young people need to build a reputation by being active in school. They need a resume by the time they get a H.S. diploma. Those spots on applications that ask about extracurricular activities and civic work now suddenly come into play...

Even in this economy some people are secure. It is possible but it won't happen by luck.


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## mpillow (Jan 24, 2003)

tiffnzacsmom said:


> This area hasn't really grown much since the 80's when the steel mills went down, unless you work in the medical or mortgage fields you'll be hard pressed to get a highly paying job but jobs are there. My company is hiring full and part time with benefits for either position you just have to be able to pass criminal background checks and have a clean driving record. Of course you have to work too, not always physically but mentally for sure. I know not everywhere has tons of jobs but if you look you can find something.
> 
> I do have a question for some of the people who have posted though, if you say one spouse is only working part time trying to support the family what is the other spouse doing? My ex and I tried to always work opposite shifts so one of us were home with the kids and we didn't need to pay for child care. Most of our marriage he worked nights and I worked days and some places even pay a shift differential if you work overnight. OR a lot of companies dealing with mental health, like mine, offer block schedules where you work 24 hours or whatever straight through and you are done for the week. My schedule is from 7 pm Friday till 12:30 am Sunday/Monday with 16 hours of unpaid sleep time. I started that shift when he got a daylight job so we could still always have someone home.


My husband had to be on call...and the scheduling was irregular and often 80 hours a week in winter(furnace repair)...I tried working his no call days but it ended up to zero family time...so we didn't buy a mcmansion, new vehicles or end up divorced...but we learned to make do on much less...now if he gets a layoff we have prepared....and I'll send him down to Texas to work if need be long before I'll go slave for minimum wage:shrug:

Skill set/trade is valuable....and so is common sense and good work ethic. Too bad the elitist Ivy League idiots seem to be ruining....um...running this country.


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