# Boar taint



## bigmudder77 (Jun 9, 2008)

Butchered a 9 month old boar and well it has taint but only when cooking it can you smell it you cant taste it which is good another good thing is we got him all pattys and brats so grilling will be the only way were cooking him


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## bigmudder77 (Jun 9, 2008)

This is also our 2nd boar we butchered first one ccouldn't tell at all no smell or taste this one just the smell when cooking but he has been breeding the first one wasn't old enough to


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## oregon woodsmok (Dec 19, 2010)

That's been my experience with it. It tastes OK, but stinks you out of the house when cooking it. Use in some Mexican cooking. The cumin and peppers cover up the smell.


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## bigmudder77 (Jun 9, 2008)

Well we got all pattys and brats so grilling this will be the best I think even out in the winter I'll have to be out there grilling lol


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## gerold (Jul 18, 2011)

What breed of pig was it.
I have butchered a 7 mo. old boar and one that was 12 mo. old. I have Yorks. No taint in either one that i could detect. I butchered a Hamp boar that was around 400 lbs. i could smell taint while butchering him but after hanging for a few days and processing he was ok. No taint smell after cooking.


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## bigmudder77 (Jun 9, 2008)

the sow was a york bluebutt cross and we ai her with a duroc boar he came out spotted


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## gerold (Jul 18, 2011)

bigmudder77 said:


> the sow was a york bluebutt cross and we ai her with a duroc boar he came out spotted


For some reason some Hamps and Duroc have more taint then other breeds.
According to people researching this issue. We used to have a lot of Hamps/Duroc pigs years ago. I don't remember them having taint then. My Dad butchered a big red boar 800 lbs. years ago.


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## GreenMomma (Jun 3, 2008)

What does everyone do with their older breeding boars, since the meat will be tainted? Ours still has plenty of good breeding years, I think... but should we be planning for a burial? Using for dog food? Are they too tough and stinky for a luau?


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## bigmudder77 (Jun 9, 2008)

Bob even or jimmy deans uses them and seasons the crap out of them fast food places also 

auctions are another place 

or finding a local butcher hog buyer 

well this one was brothers with the first one we took but we took the first one at 5 months old 

so we kept 3 boars and so far are eating 2 and the last one is sick but he was able to get all the gilts breed before he got sick the other one that we just got done was dying trying to do his deed he got so worked up he made him self out of breath before he was even testing to see if they would stand and then just laid over and got his breath back and then again got so worked up and just laid back down so he wasn't much good we were gonna auction him but prices were down and so was the freezer 

we have another like 600lb boar that is a couple years old and no way am iI gonna try to eat him he will go to auction in another year or so but right now auction is around $0.12 To $0.19 A pound which iisn't enough for me when I can use him a couple more times and get some more litters out of him


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## ErikaMay (Feb 28, 2013)

GreenMomma said:


> What does everyone do with their older breeding boars, since the meat will be tainted? Ours still has plenty of good breeding years, I think... but should we be planning for a burial? Using for dog food? Are they too tough and stinky for a luau?


Its not a guarantee that they have taint. 5-14% of boars have taint....thats alot that don't! Walter at Sugar Mt. Farms has alot to say about boar taint on his blog and has even tested for it using biopsy samples.

BTW there seems to be a thread about taint every other week...could we make one a sticky? I had lots of questions and fears about it myself. I just butchered 2 6month old boars who had been attempting to breed and they have no signs of taint. York x old spot.


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## highlands (Jul 18, 2004)

GreenMomma said:


> What does everyone do with their older breeding boars, since the meat will be tainted? Ours still has plenty of good breeding years, I think... but should we be planning for a burial? Using for dog food? Are they too tough and stinky for a luau?


Taint is real but highly over rated. One good story about it goes a long ways despite it being rare. Those lines of pigs that have it should be culled - easy solution.

We slaughter the older boars for meat. We don't have taint so it isn't a problem. The scientific studies show that only a small minority of the boars in general have taint. Talking with researcher's on this I learned that there are some breeds such as the red pigs, the Duroc, that are more prone to taint but collecting anecdotal evidence I've found that not even they are guaranteed to have taint.

Taint is fairly complex. Most boars don't have it. It is caused by a bad combination of genetics, management (e.g., penning) and feed (e.g., low fiber, corn/soy). Breed, feed and manage away from it.

There is another complication and that is not everyone can detect taint. My son and I can easily detect it. My wife almost can't. About 25% of people can't taste or smell taint.

Just to make it more confusing, there are several types of chemical taint and there are other things like bad slaughter, poor bleed out and poor chilling or holding of the meat which get blamed on taint.

We don't castrate. We've done thousands of boars over the years sold to many thousands of customers and don't have a taint problem. Castration sets a piglet back on growth. Boars grow faster than barrows, and gilts, and the research shows that boars are about 10% more efficient at turning feed into meat as well as being leaner. Most people want meat, not fat.

For some of the stuff I've written about on taint including the biopsy method of testing for taint (Have Your Pig and Eat it Too) see:

http://www.google.com/search?q=site:sugarmtnfarm.com+taint

http://sugarmtnfarm.com/2012/03/20/have-your-pig-and-eat-it-too/

The traditional use for tainted meat is to use the lean only since the fat is where most of the taint is deposited and then to spice it heavily and make it into sausages like pepperoni. If fat is needed for the recipe it is typically gotten from beef or sows for this method.

Cheers,

-Walter
Sugar Mountain Farm
in Vermont


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## GreenMomma (Jun 3, 2008)

Awesome info, thank you so much!

I have our 3 little boars (a little over a week old) scheduled to be castrated at the end of this coming week. I guess I had better research my butt off real quick. The learning curve for every critter seems so steep sometimes.

We have AGH, this is our first time breeding so I don't know what kind of results we'll get with their offspring. Maybe I should experiment and leave one in tact? Castrating 2? Any advice for a first timer? Of a litter of 6, 2 are sold, 2 are for our freezer and 2 will be or sale. We may be raising the last 2 to butcher weight as everyone interested in them thus far has wanted that and we have the space. Not sure if I'd be wise to castrate or leave them in tact for faster growth?


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## highlands (Jul 18, 2004)

GreenMomma, the trouble is without knowing about your genetics you can't tell if yours carry taint or not without raising some up and taste testing. What I did was to taste boars at progressively older ages over a period of years to check our genetics. The biopsy method needs the boars to already be big.

The good news is taint is unlikely to be a problem in your genetic line both because it is low probability overall and you don't have the red pigs, that is the Red Duroc which are most known for taint problems.

You can improve your odds of your pigs not having taint by pasturing using managed rotational grazing (e.g., not penning) and feeding a high fiber diet minimizing corn/soy which has been indicated to be a possible enhancer of taint. Those things boost your chances of not needing to castrate.

Experimenting gives data. I would go for it.

Cheers,

-Walter


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## gerold (Jul 18, 2011)

GreenMomma said:


> Awesome info, thank you so much!
> 
> I have our 3 little boars (a little over a week old) scheduled to be castrated at the end of this coming week. I guess I had better research my butt off real quick. The learning curve for every critter seems so steep sometimes.
> 
> We have AGH, this is our first time breeding so I don't know what kind of results we'll get with their offspring. Maybe I should experiment and leave one in tact? Castrating 2? Any advice for a first timer? Of a litter of 6, 2 are sold, 2 are for our freezer and 2 will be or sale. We may be raising the last 2 to butcher weight as everyone interested in them thus far has wanted that and we have the space. Not sure if I'd be wise to castrate or leave them in tact for faster growth?


Your line of pigs are new to you. So to be safe on two you plan to butcher i would castrate them to be on the safe side. You may have to feed the two castrated ones a month longer to get the weight you want but, better safe than sorry. You can test the one you save as a boar and see what the taint results will be. That way you can have a choice of butchering him or use as a replacement boar. 

Best,
Gerold.


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## gerold (Jul 18, 2011)

GreenMomma said:


> What does everyone do with their older breeding boars, since the meat will be tainted? Ours still has plenty of good breeding years, I think... but should we be planning for a burial? Using for dog food? Are they too tough and stinky for a luau?


Don't take your old boars to auctions. They will not bring anything worth messing with. You could sell them to someone that may want to use them or make sausage out of them. They do make the best sausage available. 

Best,
Gerold.


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## bigmudder77 (Jun 9, 2008)

yea we figured we had a 50-50 chance when we did ours but make $100 or so at auction or fill the freezer? 

we decided to fill the freezer and take the chance rather than just sell him and loose money we got back 280pounds of meat and we half and halfed it pattys and brats so store brats are $4-6 a pack and we didnt price pattys but bulk is $4 a pound so we have about $800 of meat in the freezer rather than $100 in the pocket thats the way we looked at it 

and problem with selling big boars online is not many people want them because there hard to handle the older and bigger they get there has been a boar about 600pounds (smaller than our older one) and they have been trying to sell him for 4 months for $200 no one has bought him and in that 2 months how much more feed has he went through its enough for me to just ship him to auction get what i can get and have one less to feed fall and spring are a good time to sell a boar around here 

i personally wouldnt sell a butchered boar to anyone just because of the chance of taint thats my personal preference other people do and dont have problems


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## gerold (Jul 18, 2011)

Just picked up a 1 1/2 h.p. meat grinder yesterday to replace my small grinder. Next big boar will be all sausage mixed with deer meat. Have a friend that has got a couple big boars from me and that's what he used them for. He gave me 5 lbs. of deer/pork sausage. Its is good for cookouts etc.


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## bigmudder77 (Jun 9, 2008)

we send ours all out to a butcher id like to do it my self to save on some money but if i sell it it has to be usda inspected


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## Okfarmer (Jul 27, 2013)

What I have done is castrated a boar then penned him up in a small area for a couple of months and fed him good feed. Much better results.


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## Wanda (Dec 19, 2002)

A lot of the lockers and meat plants here will not butcher boars. They are worried that some commingling or touching could happen when they cure and smoke in large batches. One that I use had a problem with sides in brine together for bacon curing. He had a few mad customers and will no longer process boars of any size.


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## bigmudder77 (Jun 9, 2008)

our butcher dont smoke any boars or anything from them and they only offer salt and pepper seasoning for the bulk or pattys unless you do it all in any one kind they offer we got the salt and pepper pattys and the sweet itialion brats 

but alot of other butchers we talked to wouldnt do any boars 

its best to call your butcher way ahead of time if your taking a boar in because ive posted before alot wont touch them others will do it but only fresh cuts no smoking


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## gerold (Jul 18, 2011)

bigmudder77 said:


> our butcher dont smoke any boars or anything from them and they only offer salt and pepper seasoning for the bulk or pattys unless you do it all in any one kind they offer we got the salt and pepper pattys and the sweet itialion brats
> 
> but alot of other butchers we talked to wouldnt do any boars
> 
> its best to call your butcher way ahead of time if your taking a boar in because ive posted before alot wont touch them others will do it but only fresh cuts no smoking


We have 4 local processors in this area. They all butcher and process boars. From Nov.15th to Dec. 15. they just process deer. Lot of deer hunters in this area. I do all my own butchering and processing. Building a new butcher and smoke house now. This is for my own person use.


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## bigmudder77 (Jun 9, 2008)

Yea out of the 7 or 8 With in a 20 mile drive two butcher boars 0 smoke anything from a boar


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## highlands (Jul 18, 2004)

I've worked with a lot of USDA and state meat processing facilities. None have every said no about boars. Ignorant fools might believe the myths but processors who've been around a while know that boar taint is not really the big deal that people worry about. I see plenty of other boars go through the facility we work with - in addition to all of our boars. None issue.


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## Wanda (Dec 19, 2002)

highlands said:


> I've worked with a lot of USDA and state meat processing facilities. None have every said no about boars. Ignorant fools might believe the myths but processors who've been around a while know that boar taint is not really the big deal that people worry about. I see plenty of other boars go through the facility we work with - in addition to all of our boars. None issue.



'' Ignorant fools'' is not the term for the processor that I have been using for 25 years. If you have a problem that directly afects your customers it would be a ''big deal'' to you or word of mouth would put you out of business over time. Just because you have a line of boars that have less ''taint'' does not mean that you need to ridicule and call names the people that do! If boars can be done as seperate groups it would not be a problem but when some things get together such as sides and hams that are tagged and put into curing brine together you have a diferant scenario.


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## highlands (Jul 18, 2004)

There is scientific research that shows that the vast majority of boars don't have taint and also that taint can be controlled through diet, management and better breeding. Legislation is coming down the road in a number of countries which will ban castration. Be ahead of the curve.

"Ignorant Fools" is the proper term for people who spread myths rather than actually investigating the science and reality behind issue. How long they have been ignorant fools is no excuse. Their experience with taint stands a good chance of being simply wrong since there are many things that get blamed on boar taint which are really caused by other factors such as failure to maintain the temperature of the chiller, improper bleed out, improper animal handling prior to stunning, improper kill method, etc. That they then tell their mistaken beliefs to other people and cause fear, uncertainty and doubt (FUD) as well as a lot of unnecessary pain for the pigs and higher cost of raising the slower growing barrows for the farmers. Foolishness. I call it what it is.


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## Karen in Alabam (Jul 21, 2010)

Highlands,

I have Poland China/Duroc pigs. They are red. I have three boars that we plan to butcher in September (born January). Two of the three are red, the other is mostly white.

To me they don't smell.

They do go out in the pasture--but they do have a feed high in corn--they do get other things as well--apples are in and so they are getting that, milk and other things added to their feed.

I am worried about taint because they are red. Mother is red, father is orange.

You say your wife can't smell it.

I am worried maybe I can't either.

I know people go crazy over bulls too, saying they have taint--we have slaughtered about 3 bulls and have had no problem.

Do the boar smell all the time, or is it seasonal like a goat who goes into rut. 

Like I said, I don't smell anything on any of my boars--even the father who is 1 1/2 years old.


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## bigmudder77 (Jun 9, 2008)

we heard of bulls taint if they were scared or ran hard to the kill floor or high stress before the kill caused taint (iI grew up on dairy farm we had bulls we butchered back then idk if iI would of know iI was young but now iI can tell for the most part)

and to me the smell is like when you get 2. Boars together and they put off there sent scent or when there breeding thats the same smell imI'm getting as iI cook it iI would guess its taint because its the first one out of alot of pigs that smelled like that


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## Brother Jay (Jul 13, 2013)

highlands said:


> Taint is real but highly over rated. One good story about it goes a long ways despite it being rare. Those lines of pigs that have it should be culled - easy solution.
> 
> We slaughter the older boars for meat. We don't have taint so it isn't a problem. The scientific studies show that only a small minority of the boars in general have taint. Talking with researcher's on this I learned that there are some breeds such as the red pigs, the Duroc, that are more prone to taint but collecting anecdotal evidence I've found that not even they are guaranteed to have taint.
> 
> ...


Highlands - I understand you've done some research into this that includes European studies. Are you able to provide links to those or point us in the right direction to find those studies. I think this is a big deal because choosing not to castrate boars represents a major shift in pork raising. Your comments - which I find very encouraging - imply that heritage breeds not associated with Red Durocs and that are pastured should show no indications of boar taint. If that's the case, then the whole practice of castration (time spent, materials/equipment, slower growth rate, etc...) potentially becomes a non-issue and no longer needed.

thanks for the discussion!
Brother Jay in Michigan


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## gerold (Jul 18, 2011)

Brother Jay said:


> Highlands - I understand you've done some research into this that includes European studies. Are you able to provide links to those or point us in the right direction to find those studies. I think this is a big deal because choosing not to castrate boars represents a major shift in pork raising. Your comments - which I find very encouraging - imply that heritage breeds not associated with Red Durocs and that are pastured should show no indications of boar taint. If that's the case, then the whole practice of castration (time spent, materials/equipment, slower growth rate, etc...) potentially becomes a non-issue and no longer needed.
> 
> thanks for the discussion!
> Brother Jay in Michigan


Dear Brother Jay. All boars have boar taint. Just that some have more then others. Cut boars also have boar taint. Even some sows have taint but not near as much as boars. Some yorks and other breeds have less and after processing some you can't tell has any boar taint at all. 

Best,
Gerold.
https://online.zoetis.com/US/EN/Pages/HighQualityPork/controlling-unpleasant-aromas.html
P.S. A little more about how to control boar taint. Lots of research is still going on trying to find a best way to control it. In the UK a lot is being researched on this issue.


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## highlands (Jul 18, 2004)

Karen in Alabam said:


> I have Poland China/Duroc pigs. They are red. I have three boars that we plan to butcher in September (born January). Two of the three are red, the other is mostly white.


It really isn't the color of the pig but rather the breed and even the specific line of the breed that is at question. There is a breed called Red Duroc which researchers I've talked with have said is the worst of the breeds for taint. That said though, I have had personal communication from several people who have raised the Red Duroc and not had taint. Perhaps they couldn't smell it or their raising methods reduced it or perhaps not all Red Durocs have taint.

The researchers also say that the Yorkshire are the least tainted. Feed and management are very big factors because there are multiple types of taint - it's not just sex hormones. As someone said above, even sows can have taint. In fact, there is a south Pacific breed that the sows specifically have taint which I read about. Also some other problems get blamed on taint - it is a handy excuse for what was wrong when the meat comes out bad.



Karen in Alabam said:


> Do the boar smell all the time, or is it seasonal like a goat who goes into rut.


I can smell the smell on their breath when their rutting after a female. But the smell even then does not come out in the smell or flavor of the meat.



Karen in Alabam said:


> Like I said, I don't smell anything on any of my boars--even the father who is 1 1/2 years old.


That's old enough to show if it were a problem. Cook up a piece and have a bunch of friends taste test. With six friends you are virtually guaranteed to have one who can taste the taint if it is there. 75% of people can detect mild boar taint if it is in the meat (fat actually).



Brother Jay said:


> Highlands - I understand you've done some research into this that includes European studies. Are you able to provide links to those or point us in the right direction to find those studies.


Lots. See:

http://www.google.com/search?q=site:sugarmtnfarm.com+taint



Brother Jay said:


> I think this is a big deal because choosing not to castrate boars represents a major shift in pork raising.


Castration is a relatively new thing - they didn't used to do it and they still don't in some countries. Now it is being questioned as a humane animal handling issue as well as the economic cost. In some countries it is being outlawed. I am willing to bet that within the USA it will be illegal to do castration without a vet within 20 years. With a vet is too expensive. People will find they don't really need to do it and the breed lines with problems will bet culled back and raising practices will improve (e.g., more fiber in the diet) so taint will vanish.



Brother Jay said:


> Your comments - which I find very encouraging - imply that heritage breeds not associated with Red Durocs and that are pastured should show no indications of boar taint.


With a broad brush, yes, that is what some researchers have suggested but I have heard of taint in some cases with other breeds. My suspicion is that the other factors (feed/penning/slaughterexcitation/bleedout) are the problems in those cases but I don't have enough data on them.



Brother Jay said:


> If that's the case, then the whole practice of castration (time spent, materials/equipment, slower growth rate, etc...) potentially becomes a non-issue and no longer needed.


That was the question I asked myself years ago and why I started testing and researching on this. We raise hundreds of pigs a year. Doing castration took time and killed some piglets (hidden hernias). Once a pig falls apart in your lap you can't put it's guts back in. I wanted a better way and thus I read up on why castration was done and what caused taint before I even started testing our herds. What I found was it could be managed through genetics, feed and management - for the real taint. Then proper processing for the fake taint - e.g., over excitation at slaughter, poor bleed out problems, etc.

In other words, good practices solve the problem provided one avoids certain genetics.

However, all that said, you do not know if your boars have taint or not until you test them. It takes time. Worth it.


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## bigmudder77 (Jun 9, 2008)

it use to be against the law to sell boars for human meat


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## highlands (Jul 18, 2004)

Oh? Where? When? Citation please or is this just a myth?


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## bigmudder77 (Jun 9, 2008)

http://articles.latimes.com/2004/dec/26/news/adfg-boar26

here is just a quick google search on it 

but i was told by a big hog farmer back in the 80s he couldnt sell boars for meat so he would snare them and cut them let them heal and ship them for meat with his old sows and these were old breeding boars 

when i have some free time tomorrow ill look and see if it really was against the law to sell boar meat in the states or not


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## highlands (Jul 18, 2004)

Oh, my, 1964 in Sri Lanka (off the coast of India). So not particularly relevant. Sure, you can find somewhere in the world where at some time in the past most everything is illegal but that has nothing to do with the issue. What is relevant is the coming legislation we'll see against castration.

Fact: There is no law or regulation in the USA ,or most of the world, against boar meat.

Fact: Castration is already outlawed in some places.

I'm against legislating solutions however I predict that within 20 years this push against castration by legislation will come to the USA which will make it very relevant for most of us on Homesteading Today. Be ahead of the curve. People who want to raise pigs would be well advised to take this into account by breeding for taintless boars, by learning to manage away from taint and by feeding away from taint. 

Keep it on topic and try not to fear monger with myths.


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## bigmudder77 (Jun 9, 2008)

I don't think that will happen but shoot in 20 Years we might all be dead or in war with every one including the states and then who will have time to cut boars 

And I'm sure PETA will post there videos of pigs being cut with out vet care and pain killers to help pass it if it does come to that 

but everything iI keep finding is about wild boar meat or (game meat)


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## ErikaMay (Feb 28, 2013)

Pfister has created a drug you can inject into boars which stops the creation of the tainting chemical. If a chem company can profit, they will push through legislation in their favor. 

This will probably be a good solution for older boars that are feared to be "tainty" when it becomes available in US. Of course, the long term effects of eating boar meat made with that chemical in it is yet unknown....but our population is too high anyway.

I do believe Walter is right that the time for the US to follow and ban cutting is going to happen in the next...well, at least half century. Then again, we are the last superpower to NOT ratify the UN's "Convention to Eliminate All Forms of Discrimination Against Women" (we're in good company with Iran and Sudan!), so might not happen. However: this is about protecting testicles and politicians love their balls...so it will probably pass before ratification of CEDAW. /feministpolitics #ihopeyousawthehumorinthat


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## gerold (Jul 18, 2011)

ErikaMay said:


> Pfister has created a drug you can inject into boars which stops the creation of the tainting chemical. If a chem company can profit, they will push through legislation in their favor.
> 
> This will probably be a good solution for older boars that are feared to be "tainty" when it becomes available in US. Of course, the long term effects of eating boar meat made with that chemical in it is yet unknown....but our population is too high anyway.
> 
> I do believe Walter is right that the time for the US to follow and ban cutting is going to happen in the next...well, at least half century. Then again, we are the last superpower to NOT ratify the UN's "Convention to Eliminate All Forms of Discrimination Against Women" (we're in good company with Iran and Sudan!), so might not happen. However: this is about protecting testicles and politicians love their balls...so it will probably pass before ratification of CEDAW. /feministpolitics #ihopeyousawthehumorinthat


I think you can get that drug in the U.S. now. I read about it about 6 mos. ago when we last had this round of talks on taint. Also i have fed my boars Chicory 1 mo. before butchering. Chicory does work.


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## Lazy J (Jan 2, 2008)

ErikaMay said:


> Pfister has created a drug you can inject into boars which stops the creation of the tainting chemical. If a chem company can profit, they will push through legislation in their favor.
> 
> This will probably be a good solution for older boars that are feared to be "tainty" when it becomes available in US. Of course, the long term effects of eating boar meat made with that chemical in it is yet unknown....but our population is too high anyway.
> 
> I do believe Walter is right that the time for the US to follow and ban cutting is going to happen in the next...well, at least half century. Then again, we are the last superpower to NOT ratify the UN's "Convention to Eliminate All Forms of Discrimination Against Women" (we're in good company with Iran and Sudan!), so might not happen. However: this is about protecting testicles and politicians love their balls...so it will probably pass before ratification of CEDAW. /feministpolitics #ihopeyousawthehumorinthat


Improvest which is owned by Zoetis, formerly called Pfizer Animal Health, is already approved for use in the US for use in market hogs. It was approved for us throughout the world long before it was approved for use in the USA.

The two injection program is actually a vaccine that binds to the receptors in the pituitary gland which are responsible for puberty in growing male hogs. It does not permanently castrate the pigs and it can not remove the taint causing compounds in mature boars. 

Since the vaccination is not permanent the injections must be timed appropriately for the marketing program of the farm because when the immunity to sexual maturity wears off the boars will begin maturing.


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## highlands (Jul 18, 2004)

ErikaMay said:


> Pfister has created a drug you can inject into boars which stops the creation of the tainting chemical. If a chem company can profit, they will push through legislation in their favor.


If you are a male, be very careful using the drug. It can also infect humans. In fact, it has caused sterility in human males in cases of accidental injection. This is one I think I'll skip... :}


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## Lazy J (Jan 2, 2008)

highlands said:


> If you are a male, be very careful using the drug. It can also infect humans. In fact, it has caused sterility in human males in cases of accidental injection. This is one I think I'll skip... :}


The vaccination program is a two injection system, if you accidentally get one of the injections you will not become sterile. There are some pretty serious safety measures in place for the people that do the injections. The vaccine will not be available to just anyone, there will be trained crews that will do the injections and the syringes are designed to eliminate/limit accidental human injections.

You will not be able to get a single dose of this product from TSC or your veterinarian. There is an extensive program involved with this product's use in commercial swine farms.


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## Appalachia (Jul 11, 2012)

Lazy J said:


> The vaccination program is a two injection system, if you accidentally get one of the injections you will not become sterile. There are some pretty serious safety measures in place for the people that do the injections. The vaccine will not be available to just anyone, there will be trained crews that will do the injections and the syringes are designed to eliminate/limit accidental human injections.
> 
> You will not be able to get a single dose of this product from TSC or your veterinarian. There is an extensive program involved with this product's use in commercial swine farms.




Hmmm, sounds quite dangerous... don't think I'll be wanting that injected into my food.


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## bigmudder77 (Jun 9, 2008)

I'll just stick with cutting 

also if they do pass this no cutting boars there gonna have to change alot of fair rules because our local fair only lets you show barrows no gilts and no boars are in the paper work you have to fill out well after thinking about it I just while typing 6 fairs around me only let's barrows be showed

and big hog factorys are going to have to chage the way they raise pigs since they dontdon't like to butcher pregnant hogs and keeping a pen of boars will result in losing some if they get a smell of a gilt in heat 

just some thing to think about you think hog factory's are bad now with abuse wait till you get a bunch of workers around boars that start acting stupid and the workers are $8 an hour don't care or know how to handle hogs but who knows maybe in 20 Years they will make us all be salad eaters and meat illegal


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## Lazy J (Jan 2, 2008)

Appalachia said:


> Hmmm, sounds quite dangerous... don't think I'll be wanting that injected into my food.


It's a vaccine, just like a flu shot.


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## Lazy J (Jan 2, 2008)

bigmudder77 said:


> and big hog factorys are going to have to chage the way they raise pigs since they dontdon't like to butcher pregnant hogs and keeping a pen of boars will result in losing some if they get a smell of a gilt in heat


The vaccinated boars do not express secondary sex characteristics and therefore can't breed nor produce phermones to induce estrus in gilts. Additionally, most modern hog farmers practice split-sex feeding where barrows are housed in different pens or different buildings than gilts. This will alos occur with the vaccinated boars.


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## ErikaMay (Feb 28, 2013)

hum.....why is it we have an injectable contraception for pigs but not humans vet? sorry, off topic. ....*goes off to plot money making scheme*


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## highlands (Jul 18, 2004)

The problem of accidental injection for men is quite serious and should not be dismissed so lightly. Two injections are not required to have a problem. 

Sterility can occur from the first injection - permanent or temporary. Subsequent injections make it worse such that they recommend if you get injected once that you have nothing to do with the vaccine in the future. This is not a case of it taking two injections to make you sterile. One injection can do that. With each injection the effects get worse, higher risk.

Note that this effects both men and women. It does not just produce sterility but may affect secondary sexual characteristics. e.g., you could lose muscle mass (get weaker) and lose other male characteristics. Why risk it?


_"People who get injected with the vaccine can become sterilised according to an EU report:&#8220;Accidental self- injection may produce similar effects in people to those seen in pigs. The risk of these effects is greater after a second or subsequent accidental injection than after a first injection.&#8220;[7] The manufacturer's web site further expands on this: &#8220;accidental self-injection may produce similar effects in people to those seen in pigs. These may include a temporary reduction in sexual hormones and reproductive functions in both men and women and an adverse effect on pregnancy. The risk of these effects will be greater after a second or subsequent accidental injection than after a first injection. *The product label advises* anyone who has received an accidental self-injection to seek medical attention immediately and *not to use the product in the future.*&#8220;[8]_

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boar_taint


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## aart (Oct 20, 2012)

ErikaMay said:


> hum.....why is it we have an injectable contraception for pigs but not humans vet? sorry, off topic. ....*goes off to plot money making scheme*


Depo Provera, also made by Upjohn>Pfizer, is a injectable contraceptive for women...been around for years. It was/is also used for chemical castration as part of the sentencing of convicted male sex offenders.


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## ErikaMay (Feb 28, 2013)

I meant an intractable contraception for men. I'mma gonna veer the conversation off topic if i keep going. 

I had the first taste of my 6 month boars last night: everyone agreed tasty and not tainty!


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## Patchouli (Aug 3, 2011)

highlands said:


> I've worked with a lot of USDA and state meat processing facilities. None have every said no about boars. Ignorant fools might believe the myths but processors who've been around a while know that boar taint is not really the big deal that people worry about. I see plenty of other boars go through the facility we work with - in addition to all of our boars. None issue.


Our local processor did a boar once that had taint and it ruined everything in their smoker including other people's hams so they only do fresh meat now on boars. It may seem like over kill but after one big loss like that to a small processor they are just better off safe than sorry.  

We just got back a 10 month old boar that was a Duroc/Hampshire cross and he was raised on pasture with very little feed and he has taint. The meat tastes fine but there is an acrid smell when it is cooking. Normally we just get females as feeder pigs or castrated males, this was our first uncastrated male and to be honest I would be hesitant to try it again although I know now we got the 2 worst possible breeds for it.


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## highlands (Jul 18, 2004)

Duroc is well known to be prone to boar taint. I would avoid that genetics for this reason and that Duroc are said to be more aggressive.


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## haypoint (Oct 4, 2006)

My son bought a group of feeder pigs, couple years back. Him and I were splitting one, the rest were pre-sold. The slaughter facility phoned him that one had a single testicle. They said the taint stunk up the cutting room. Had thickening around shoulders, as do all boars. Well, he and I got stuck with the boar, couldn't sell to customers. Maybe smelled bad cooking, but tasted alright.
There is a nationally known sausage company. They only buy old sows. They don't try to hide boar taint in their sausage even though they could get them real cheap.


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## highlands (Jul 18, 2004)

Well, if that boar had taint and only one testicle then that's two good reasons you shouldn't breed him... 

The good news is scientific research has shown that boar taint only appears in the minority of boars - really only in a few lines of some breeds like the Duroc, is genetic so it can be selected against, can be controlled in almost all pigs through feed (higher fiber helps) and better management practices (pasturing or clean pens at the very least if in confinement).

In Europe they're banning surgical castration without anesthesia and vet oversight. That will probably happen in Canada and the USA in the future as well just as they're moving to ban sow crating. The writing is on the wall. Best to be ahead of the curve on this.


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## Patchouli (Aug 3, 2011)

highlands said:


> Well, if that boar had taint and only one testicle then that's two good reasons you shouldn't breed him...
> 
> The good news is scientific research has shown that boar taint only appears in the minority of boars - really only in a few lines of some breeds like the Duroc, is genetic so it can be selected against, can be controlled in almost all pigs through feed (higher fiber helps) and better management practices (pasturing or clean pens at the very least if in confinement).
> 
> In Europe they're banning surgical castration without anesthesia and vet oversight. That will probably happen in Canada and the USA in the future as well just as they're moving to ban sow crating. The writing is on the wall. Best to be ahead of the curve on this.


I really don't have the room to raise my own hogs so what would you recommend to look for in buying feeders? Just stick to females? How are the rarer breeds like Tamworths or Old Spots? I know a few people around here who raise them. I read several of your blog posts Highlands about the taint issue and I would rather not castrate if possible but I also don't want to have this happen again.


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## highlands (Jul 18, 2004)

The advantage of boars is that they grow about 10% faster than barrows which grow about 10% faster than gilts, as a general rule. Boars are more efficient at turning food into meat. Fat goes the other direction. Gilts have the most with barrows again in the middle and boars are the leanest. The difference in feed efficiency is not a big deal for someone raising backyard pigs. On bigger farms where they're watching feed efficiency and only making a few dollars per pig then it becomes a bigger deal.

In terms of breed choices: According to one researcher into taint who spoke with me, the lighter colored breeds like the Yorkshire have the least incidence of taint and Duroc is the worst. In addition to our farm's own cross Mainline genetics we also have pure bred lines of Berkshire, Tamworth and Large Black with no signs of taint. My sample set is small though so not significant. I've spoken with a lot of people who have sampled boars - almost none have had taint other than in the Duroc. 

However, taint is real so if you don't have control over your genetics the simplest way to avoid taint is to buy gilts (females).

Note that there are other things that get blamed on taint such as rough handling of the animal just before slaughter causing the release of stress chemicals, poor slaughter technique, poor bleed, temperature abuse, etc. Real taint is caused by several chemicals and even females can have taint, both the real (rare) and the other kinds that get blamed on taint.

My recommendation if you don't want to have animals castrated and want to maximize your chances of avoiding taint are:

1) Gilts
2) Pasture
3) Rotational Grazing
4) Plant chicory (claimed to reduce taint even in tainty pigs)


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## Patchouli (Aug 3, 2011)

Thanks!


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## bmurphy96 (Nov 23, 2013)

Walter,

For some reason I thought you had a duroc mix in your line. That's kind of scary reading that Duroc are some of the most prone to boar taint since I'm planning on Durocs being 50% of the genetics of our pigs for the next several years . I'm not sure how I missed that when doing my research but I have way to much invested in my two at this point to change things. 

I'm planning on crossing my Duroc boar with our two berkie gilts and also a Duroc sow we acquired somewhere along the way (not sure how...she just showed up one day - honest! At least that's my story. I'll stick to it for now). I'll raise a few pure Duroc young intact males and slaughter them at 250 and 300 pounds and see how they taste before making any really long term decisions. Even if they have issues, the Duroc/berk cross might not. Time will tell.

keith


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## gerold (Jul 18, 2011)

bmurphy96 said:


> Walter,
> 
> For some reason I thought you had a duroc mix in your line. That's kind of scary reading that Duroc are some of the most prone to boar taint since I'm planning on Durocs being 50% of the genetics of our pigs for the next several years . I'm not sure how I missed that when doing my research but I have way to much invested in my two at this point to change things.
> 
> ...


I butchered a Duroc/berk cross about 1 and half years ago. He was around 19 mos. old. and weight 700-800 lbs. No taint at all. Really made good sausage also.


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## Okfarmer (Jul 27, 2013)

I usually do not concern myself with "taint" or odor. I ate many things while in the military. But I have had one butcher animal over the years that had an odor in its meat, especially when fried. I tried to ignore it and pretend it wasn't there but I couldn't and ended up discarding it. I purchased it as a 180 pound boar. I castrated it, kept it penned up for a couple of months and fed it pelleted feed containing corn. I actually did wait two months. Never again. I didn't save any money since I didn't like the pork. And the odor was horrible.


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## highlands (Jul 18, 2004)

bmurphy96 said:


> That's kind of scary reading that Duroc are some of the most prone to boar taint since I'm planning on Durocs being 50% of the genetics of our pigs for the next several years


Some people who have Durocs have told me they had taint and other people who slaughtered Duroc boars said they had no taint. It may be a specific line within Duroc that is the problem or it could be the other two legs of the stool: management (e.g., pen vs pasture) and feed (e.g., pasture high fiber vs corn/soy). Hard to tell without a lot more testing.


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## KateMountain (Dec 28, 2013)

I am very interested in learning more about HIGHLANDS post re: castration and affects on meat quality.

First, my partner and I just slaughtered and butchered a 275 lb, 10 month old, Duroc(50%)/Tam (25)/Hamp (25) breeding boar that never actually did the deed.

We felt uncertain about how the meat would turn out as we've heard the stories about boars and taint.

We didn't find any noticeable taint, nor did our friends who ultimately took the slaughtered product.

We've heard that if a boar doesn't actually breed, taint is a non-issue.

So if one is raising feeders, and they never reach breeding age anyway, what's to say you need to castrate in the first place?

Also, I can imagine how handling factors could play into the quality of butchered meat---certainly the bleeding out part of the slaughtering process. Thanks for the links HIGHLANDS and I will follow them up shortly (keep 'em coming).


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## ErikaMay (Feb 28, 2013)

WEll...I will say if breeding causes it my boars i butchered at 6 months got plenty of action without a problem. Managed to get their sister pregnant at just 5 months. They tasted fine.


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## highlands (Jul 18, 2004)

Based on our tests I can virtually conclusively say that breeding does not cause taint. I've had boars breeding right up to within an hour before slaughter.

The research I've read also agrees with this.


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