# dating with children



## farmgal (Nov 12, 2005)

Ok, lets hear what you all have to say about dating someone with children. What are your experiences? How were the children parented? Strict? passive? balanced? Did they make time and room for you? How long did it last? 

So far any men I dated with children didnt last very long. Mainly because the children were so spoiled, talked nasty to everyone and lived an entitled existence, I ran for the hills ! One guy had a pretty cool silly 9 y/o daughter, after a few times hanging out, he turned out to be a drunk...lol too bad.. always wanted a daughter. 

please tell me your story.....Any pointers?


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## Darren (May 10, 2002)

That's never been an issue. I usually date older women and their children are grown and on their own. Never had a problem with their families. I don't know how I'd do around younger problematic children although I think I could do a better job (insert evil grin here) than Dean Winters in those Allstate ads. My bizarre sense of humor worked to confuse and derail any unwelcome behavior of my kids. I think it would still work.


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## gone-a-milkin (Mar 4, 2007)

My DH and I both already had our kids when we first met.
It is tha hardest thing I have ever done, co-parenting stepkids and having a blended family.

Statistically they say it is virtually impossible to make a relationship work when both parties have minor children with other people,
but I have been with my DH for 12 years now.
This May saw the graduation of the youngest one from highschool. :rock:
Between us we have 4. 2 his and 2 mine, none shared. 
They are DD 18, DS18, DS 19, and DS 23. 

Co-parenting (on whatever level) with the other bio-family of my steps (including the grandparents!!!)
was the trickiest part for me.
Life sure isnt fair, but it can still be a lot of fun.
Except for holidays. I am scarred by those.


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## littlejoe (Jan 17, 2007)

I dated a gal for several years who has a daughter who is now 13. She was a handful for her mother, but she seemed to adore me. She loved horses, and maybe that was my key? She knew she had to respect me and what I said. I treated her with the same respect.

She also has a daughter who is 28 with a one year old child, who moved back into the home. She wouldn't keep a job, there was constant bickering, as well as lies. Very little true respect shown or given...between any of the family members.

My boys are all out of the house now and moved on to their own careers, but people used to tell me how nice it was having them around, and how respectful they were. Did my heart good! For sure, they tried me at times, yet we perservered. They still kept an onery side, but that's a good thing in my opinion.

I didn't do it all on my own account...I had a xwife that helped in their early years. To bad she went bonkers? She has missed out on seeing them grow into fine young men.

I just believe it's about respect...shown and given in both directions. Without that there isn't much of a base to build on.


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## littlejoe (Jan 17, 2007)

Congrats goneamilkin!!! You both had a tough tricky job that you handled well.


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## rkintn (Dec 12, 2002)

I haven't really dated since my divorce because of the kids. I'm super picky about who I let around them. Also, I'm don't need or want someone else coming in and trying to tell me how to raise them or tell what to do with them. (had a guy I was interested in start telling me that I needed to do this or that with the kids, just in the course of normal conversation, we never made it to dating and never will) I would expect the kids to respect him and do as they were told but the discipline of the kids would be my responsibility. It would be a complicated situation and that is probably why I haven't put more effort into finding someone.


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## foaly (Jan 14, 2008)

I have found that men generally aren't interested in dating a woman with children. My boys are fabulous, respectful, young men and would benefit greatly from a kind man in their lives who could be their friend and serve as a good role model.

Unfortunately, the men I have encountered seem to be afraid of children or worried that I'm looking for someone to raise them or just generally not interested.

Such is life, I guess.


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## homefire2007 (Sep 21, 2007)

rkintn said:


> I haven't really dated since my divorce because of the kids. I'm super picky about who I let around them. Also, I'm don't need or want someone else coming in and trying to tell me how to raise them or tell what to do with them. (had a guy I was interested in start telling me that I needed to do this or that with the kids, just in the course of normal conversation, we never made it to dating and never will) I would expect the kids to respect him and do as they were told but the discipline of the kids would be my responsibility. It would be a complicated situation and that is probably why I haven't put more effort into finding someone.


That is pretty much how I've dealt with it. I was an older mom when the children were born. When Vince passed away, I knew there would not be any dating or such. The kids would come first always. Never regretted that decision.

Now, I'm too durned independent and ornery to seriously think about it. My mother was divorced and dated when we were young. It made a difficult situation even more complicated. Having said that, I've seen some blended families work. It took a rock solid commitment to each other and some hard work.


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## bluemoonluck (Oct 28, 2008)

My DH came with 3 kids from his first marriage, I brought in 2 of my own. Here's some things to consider:

1) Lots of non-custodial parents (usually fathers) develop what's known as "Disney Dad Syndrome", where they want their kids to enjoy the limited time they spend with them....so they refuse to discipline them. They turn a blind eye as their kids disrespect the new wife/GF, destroy her property, and generally act like brats (it doesn't take kids long to learn that there are no consequences, and they'll act out accordingly). They spend money they don't have on their kids, out of guilt (this is why it is essential for you to keep your finances separate!). They allow their kids to do things/act in ways that they would never allow your shared/full-time kids to do. 

If you point any of this out to them, you WILL be subjected to the "you hate my kids" dramatic BS .

This creates a lot of issues, not only with the new wife/GF, but also with any kids who live in the house full-time who are subjected to a whole different (and much more strict) style of parenting. In talking to friends who decided NOT to marry a man with kids, or who divorced a man with children from previous relationships, this is one of the top reasons they give for leaving.

2) Many a man has admitted to getting re-married after his divorce so that he can have someone to help him raise his kids and keep the house up. If you're feeling like nothing more than a cross between a maid and a babysitter while you're dating, chances are that this will continue (and get worse!) if you get married..... best to cut your losses and get out.

3) As a counselor, I always want to caution people that there ARE bad people out there..... It's not unheard of at all for a pedophile to specifically target single mothers of children in their preferred age range in order to gain access to the children :sob:. Even if you think your new man is awesome, do NOT leave him alone with your kids at all for a good long time after you start dating (as in at least a year), and be on the lookout for any red flags. Some kids will react badly to their parent entering into a new relationship no matter what, but if your kid seems unusually uncomfortable around the new guy, it may be a good idea to keep an eye on things. My DH has arrested more than one man for child abuse under these conditions 

Luckily my DH is a reasonable guy. He's not as bad of a Disney Dad as he was in the beginning, and he's willing to hear me out when I call him out on stuff (he doesn't like it, but he listens). I've told him where my limits are with his kids - I won't babysit them, because they don't listen to me, but I do like them and I treat them as well as I would any guest in my home; I won't clean up after them, because I refuse to clean up after my own kids - they're all perfectly capable of cleaning up after themselves, and if he chooses to let them leave a mess he can handle it himself. Stuff like that.

We do have conflicts in parenting styles. I have 100% custody of my two DD's, we have a 14-month old DS together, and I'm due in a bit over a month with a second DS . My style is totally different than DH's, but we manage to work things out when there's an issue we don't agree on. 

It's not easy - being a single Mom for as long as I was, I was used to making my own decisions and not having to answer for them to another adult. It's taken a lot of adjusting on my part, especially.

I'd say that a lot of pre-marital counseling would be a good idea. Find a counselor who is familiar with steplife, because the ones who aren't will give you really BAD advice (like telling you to treat your stepkids like your own - yeah, not appropriate at all and setting you up for failure). Read some of the books out there on StepParenting and detachment, and set early boundaries. Recognize that it won't be easy, but that nothing in life worth having is easy. And know too that the kids WILL grow up and move out one day :bouncy:


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## Ardie/WI (May 10, 2002)

I was married to a man with two teen children for a short time. This was a second marriage for both of us. I had full custody of my two and he only saw his on visits as they lived out of state. They we good kids, but still kids.

I soon discovered that I just didn't have the patience to deal with his attitude when they were visiting. I guess that was selfish of me, but at least I knew my character failures. There were a lot of other issues and the marriage lasted two years and two months too long.

After that I swore I would not get involved with a man with kids. I also had a list of what I expected in a man. My DH still laughs about how I interviewed him about hobbies, religious beliefs, family etc. It worked as we've been together for 35 years.


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## Laura (May 10, 2002)

During the divorce DD, all of a sudden wanted me to hurry up and get a boyfriend. Long discussion cut short, I'm not competing with your dad, when I'm done taking care of business, when I'm ready, I will consider. Truthfully, my dating beyond the trusted men we already know was terrifying to her. Hasn't been all that great for me either.

I have strict dating rules. These not only protect my daughter, they protect me and the boundaries on our No BS Zone. DD does meet these men out in the community at some point, I trust her judgment. She's as good as any canine sidekick at sniffing the fleas, red flags and turds. She also feels the hidden treasures, those who are safe, worthy of trust and respect.

The rule for having men to our home is an established RELATIONSHIP of 6 months. That doesn't go over too well with a lot of men. There seems to be an expectation from many men my home and kitchen, and possibly my bed should have an open door right from the start. Define Relationship. We have long established trust relationships with a few men who are welcome in our home, men we've known for years.

I think men with kids can be a plus, since I was a full time mom for 28 years. I LIKE kids, most kids. It still comes down to lifestyle choices, respect and boundaries. I admire and truly respect good dads and good kids. 
Some men, just like some of my women friends, are serious enablers of their children and grandchildren's bad behaviors. This violates my No BS Zone. I will only be preempted a limited number of times for someone else's self-inflicted crisis. I have better things to do.

DD and I double dated a father and son. The young man and his sister are awesome, we count them as friends. They have my phone number and know to call anytime they need me, I will pull the Mom Card for them. I had to be honest with these two. Yes let's hang, have fun, I am here for you, but stop trying to ditch me with your dad. The kids are welcome here, the dad is not.

I haven't dated all that much since DD turned 18 in Dec. and chose not to see her dad anymore. ---Yeah that Disney Dad stuff, except he was always that way even when we were married. DD doesn't want to be in his carnival anymore riding the roller coaster until she pukes.-----
Not that I have a shortage of dating opportunities, but hanging with the Kid is so dang FUN! Even Movie Night at home just the two of us will have the laughter, good vibes and intellectual stimulation we both wish were more readily available from males. 

Hanging with multigenerational groups of friends, her friends, my friends, our friends. We get to know people better before deciding if we want to date, we meet new people. Then we come home to the No BS Zone. Only those who respect the boundary are allowed to enter.


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## starjj (May 2, 2005)

Last boyfriend was run over by his youngest son. When I meant him he was "temporary at home". Over 8 years later he is still moving back in when it is needed. He plays daddy like a violin using him as necessary. Thank God I bailed on that relationship. I mean really we are talking a age span from 18 to 26 and he still is running home when things don't work out.

I am all for family but not when family uses you.


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## katydidagain (Jun 11, 2004)

Wanted out when DS was 5 in 1991; I stayed for his sake another 13 years. Was I right to do so? For me, probably not. For him it appears so; he seems to have broken the abuse cycle that went way back on my father's side (and I suspect his father's). He's with a woman he respects and adores; they've been a couple for 8 plus years. 

Had I left his father while he was a minor I would not have dated because I chose to bring him into this world and I had a responsibility to my child; my needs were far beyond secondary.. Women who subject their minor children to lots of daddies are trash IMO.


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## newfieannie (Dec 24, 2006)

i was out a couple times with a guy who had a son . he was pushin 40. all he did was get money for taking courses at the university. never had a job in his life. i went to his fathers place once.all he did was lie on the sofa and watch tv. he would grunt when he was spoken to. he did brighten up when he asked me if i had sattelite. "well, yes i do." i'll come over and watch when i'm not in school" not a chance! useless as tits on a bull! i didn't wait around to meet the daughter. ~Georgia.


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## notthereyet (Nov 17, 2011)

Dad did great with my step-sisters. They call him dad and the other guys are just "sperm donors."

Step-dad was horrible, didn't know his *** from a hole in the ground when it came to kids.

I've been struggling with the instant family (step-daughter was 14 when I got her). DW won't parent her and won't let me parent her. Been a major source of stress with me.

Best advice... if you like the guy or gal, get to be friends, spend some time together. See how they parent their children, and if their 'style' agrees with your values, go for it.


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## lazyBum (Feb 27, 2012)

I understand why people keep their kids away from the people they are dating until they know it will last. But some people hide their kids because they know they are horrible brats and don't want them to ruin their chances.

My friends get mad because I won't date women with kids. They tell me I won't find a woman my age without kids. I just reply that I'll stay single then. Most of the women either spoil their kids, or they are way too strict. And they all say they don't want a guy to be a dad to their kids. That isn't going to work for me. To me it's a package deal, if I'm dating a woman with kids, then the kids should be part of the relationship. I'm not going to wait till marriage to find out what I'm getting in to.


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## Fair Light (Oct 13, 2010)

foaly said:


> I have found that men generally aren't interested in dating a woman with children. My boys are fabulous, respectful, young men and would benefit greatly from a kind man in their lives who could be their friend and serve as a good role model.
> 
> Unfortunately, the men I have encountered seem to be afraid of children or worried that I'm looking for someone to raise them or just generally not interested.
> 
> Such is life, I guess.


I totally agree .....

Back in the 80's I was had been a single mom for quite a while...I didn't date much and I was very careful not to bring men home...after the getting to know you phase...it became clear to these guys that I was a package deal at the time...and before even meeting my kids they would bail because said they just couldn't do the three kids thing no matter how great the kids were...good enough for me....I eventually met someone that actually liked my kids...but he turned out to be jerk#2 of my life...BUT..he was always great with my kids...I will give him credit for that......and it totally impressees me when I meet a man that is good with kids...and even enjoys being around them....I find guys that are very family oriented to be very attractive...but I am too old to raising someone else's kids..


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## shanzone2001 (Dec 3, 2009)

Never has been a problem for me....guess I was lucky. I also am really, really strict so my kids are respectful and well-behaved.


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## farmgal (Nov 12, 2005)

Thanks for the great advise everyone. I think people with children need to make time for their partner also. Yes, you love your children, but meeting someone to make you happy will reflect on the children. They want to see you happy. If they dont have insecurity issues, this shouldnt be a problem. I am older and most men have older children, but recently I started seeing one with 2 young sons. Its very difficult. I have met the children briefly, they seem fine. Parenting skills are so different across the board. Fitting in seems like it will take an eternity. It will definately take both involved to make it work. 

I have been on the other side of the coin all these years, raising 2 sons on my own. Youngest is 17 and an easy teen. He is sick of me being alone and wants me to date, but he see's whats out there better then I do at times and he says, " I see why you stay alone"...lol


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## Laura (May 10, 2002)

While we may be single parents, most of our kids have two parents. They nor us are looking for another parent. We are ideally looking for someone who can be a trustworthy, understanding adult friend. Both DD and I require low drama.

Living as rural as we do, there is no way anyone can hide their kids unless they have extensive family or they are non-custodial transplants. Mom was the only identity I and many women had for decades. My kids are well known, well behaved and well liked throughout community. Anyone who wants a "say" in parenting the last DD needs to be able to Prove Up.

Dating is a time of two people getting to know each other exploring the possibility of pursuing a potential relationship. Kids as part of that package shouldn't be necessary at all. You can learn a lot about a person's parenting style by their own display of character and personality traits. 

Don't like whiney kids? Don't date a whiney woman. Are the first couple of dates interrupted or cancelled by constant texts or calls due to family drama? Bye. Do they have positive or negative attitudes, about life, about their kids, what's their stress level, coping style......?


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## TNHermit (Jul 14, 2005)

Only one thing you need to know. If it gets really serious but the kids still come first it doesn't have a snowballs chance.


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## Laura (May 10, 2002)

TNHermit said:


> Only one thing you need to know. If it gets really serious but the kids still come first it doesn't have a snowballs chance.


It doesn't have a snowball's chance if we're consistently challenged to choose one or the other, either. In healthy relationships people accommodate each other. Needs are met, demands are not.


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## TNHermit (Jul 14, 2005)

Laura said:


> It doesn't have a snowball's chance if we're consistently challenged to choose one or the other, either. In healthy relationships people accommodate each other. Needs are met, demands are not.


Sooner or later there comes a time,circumstance where a choice has to be made. And many times the choice is not that important. But I think you would already choose your kids first. No one has shown a biblical or other reference where that is the way to go. And to add fact to this. My son and his have just celebrated their first year putting each other first and working on creating something and raiseing the kids along behind. They are much happier and the kids are more stable as they know there isn't a chance to get between the two


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## Laura (May 10, 2002)

TNHermit said:


> Sooner or later there comes a time,circumstance where a choice has to be made. And many times the choice is not that important. But I think you would already choose your kids first. No one has shown a biblical or other reference where that is the way to go. And to add fact to this. My son and his have just celebrated their first year putting each other first and working on creating something and raiseing the kids along behind. They are much happier and the kids are more stable as they know there isn't a chance to get between the two


 The Bible states our children are our inheritance.

There are men who request from the woman they "love" to choose between the children and them. That's appropriate when it's codependent enabling BS of adult children. I know men who've requested the young baggage be put up for adoption or ditched in foster care. I met women who complied, they didn't want ANYTHING coming between them and their wonderful new man.

In today's tossed salad of relationships, people come and go, hopefully children are forever. I believe if a man truly loves, trusts and respects me, he will honor my Mother's heart.


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## foaly (Jan 14, 2008)

Laura said:


> I believe if a man truly loves, trusts and respects me, he will honor my Mother's heart.


This! ^^^


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## TNHermit (Jul 14, 2005)

Laura said:


> The Bible states our children are our inheritance.
> 
> There are men who request from the woman they "love" to choose between the children and them. That's appropriate when it's codependent enabling BS of adult children. I know men who've requested the young baggage be put up for adoption or ditched in foster care. I met women who complied, they didn't want ANYTHING coming between them and their wonderful new man.
> 
> In today's tossed salad of relationships, people come and go, hopefully children are forever. I believe if a man truly loves, trusts and respects me, he will honor my Mother's heart.


The males you talk about are not even men in slightest. Yes children are our in inheritance. And a man will honor your mothers heart. But i can tell you by the time a child is six months old he knows if its him or your husband you truly will bow too. But when the rubber meets the road its the mans duty to the wife and the wife's duty to the husband. God gave his son.


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## shanzone2001 (Dec 3, 2009)

TNHermit said:


> Only one thing you need to know. If it gets really serious but the kids still come first it doesn't have a snowballs chance.


Guess my marriage doesn't have a snowball's chance. My kids were here first and will be my priority until they are no longer children. 
Guess I have issues because l don't need a man but l am nothing without my children.


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## Laura (May 10, 2002)

TNHermit said:


> The males you talk about are not even men in slightest. Yes children are our in inheritance. And a man will honor your mothers heart. But i can tell you by the time a child is six months old he knows if its him or your husband you truly will bow too. But when the rubber meets the road its the mans duty to the wife and the wife's duty to the husband. God gave his son.


You are correct, and they are males I never looked twice at. But they are males who found women who chose them over the wellbeing of their children. I don't think much of those mothers, either.

You are the one who brought up a woman must choose you over her children for a relationship. I gave you examples of where these demands lead. I choose the wellbeing of my children over some guy I'm dating every time. I won't bow to any man or child.


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## TNHermit (Jul 14, 2005)

Laura said:


> You are correct, and they are males I never looked twice at. But they are males who found women who chose them over the wellbeing of their children. I don't think much of those mothers, either.
> 
> You are the one who brought up a woman must choose you over her children for a relationship. I gave you examples of where these demands lead. I choose the wellbeing of my children over some guy I'm dating every time. I won't bow to any man or child.


Its not a mans to demand. Its a woman's to realize. As it is a mans. Good luck I'm sure you will have no problem with him putting his kids first either. You will bow one or the other . There is no other choice except to alienate both


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## Laura (May 10, 2002)

TNHermit said:


> Its not a mans to demand. Its a woman's to realize. As it is a mans. Good luck I'm sure you will have no problem with him putting his kids first either. You will bow one or the other . There is no other choice except to alienate both


 I don't have a problem with the choices men make for their lives as long as they aren't trying to make choices that affect my quality of life. My life, my rules. DD and I choose to live in the No BS Zone. Some men are welcome, most are not. I don't feel I have to sacrifice any standards to "get and keep a man." Another will be along in 10 minutes.

Perhaps I'm not understanding what you're saying because we have different reference points. My children never ruled the roost. I have one child left at home. She is a late bloomer due to autism, and she is very gifted. She is to be protected, that's the job God gave me. 

A man saying, "Me or her," the answer is easy.


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## WhyNot (Jun 21, 2011)

Huh. Well now that I am thinking about it, the men I have dated or been friends with that were single dads there never seemed to be huge behavioral issues with their children. As well, my daughter never had huge behavioral issues either. However, those relationships did not end or simply not progress due to any children involved.

I had a live in that I was with for 7 years, my daughter and he got along fine. He didn't try to be her father and I asked her only to respect him, that was all. He helped her with algebra and geometry. He rode with her on roller coasters and other fast/high rides because this gal here doesn't do that lol. They were good pals. We did weekend paintball and she was thrilled every time she shot him and the other big guys. lol

One of the men I see here has a son who he shares custody. We have not known each other long in the grand scope of things and I haven't met his son. Honestly I am not sure I will. We really don't know where we are going we just know that once or twice a month we enjoy spending a day together. We both work a lot and neither wants nor needs anything to get too complicated. His weekends with his son are just that.

I think that, honestly, the right people together won't have a very hard time integrating into a relationship with children. Even though my past boyfriends did not last, there was never an issue with my daughter or their children. I think it was just the person they were to begin with really. I do not gravitate toward irresponsibility or drama and uncontrollable children to me are a sign of some sort of instability or irresponsibility on the parents' part to be honest. 

Spoiled and ill mannered children signify something is going on, that could be a variety of things, but it is a turmoil of some sort. I don't care to be with a man that does not discipline their child or is completely out of control of their own life. Things happen, of course, but you can tell the difference in character.

A while ago I did see a man who's son would completely act up when we met at the park lol...he was a cute little boy, wanted all of the attention and was trying to impress my daughter who was the "older woman" in this case...haha she was 7, he was 4. It was very cute I thought. His father was mortified LMAO. 

I don't even understand this "the kid or me" thing. Probably because I would have weeded that kind of guy out before he ever got to meet my kid.


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## NoClue (Jan 22, 2007)

Before I married my ex, I dated women with children. I'd always wanted children, but first wife didn't, and I figured at the time that it was too late for me to reaslistically expect to have kids of my own. As a boyfriend, I always deferred to the role of mother and the needs of the kids. It was, sometimes, frustrating. Ultimately, none of those relationships worked, and I ended up having kids of my own. 

In the one relationship that became really serious, I spent enough time with the kids to develop relationships with them as well. I never presumed to be their father, and except on rare occasions, left all of the discipline to their mom.

In spite of my best intentions and efforts, I am once again single. My kids are young and I have joint custody. I've only been on a handful of dates, and only when the kids were with their mom. While I can't even imagine how I might end up in a serious relationship, my 'plan', such as it is, is to not introduce a hypothetical girlfriend to my kids until it is becoming serious - but how she deals with the kids is something we would have to talk about before it could become serious, and how she deals with them would represent a potential "deal-breaker".

My mom passed away when I was 14, and my Dad had no plan or criteria on how his new women would deal with my siblings as I. He jumped into a new marriage within months of my mother's passing, and the woman he married was demonstrably evil, such that legal intervention was required. He married again, almost as soon as the ink on the divorce was dry, and my second stepmother, while not evil, wasn't a good person - she and my dad abandoned us all (she brought 3 kids of her own to the family) after about 6 months.

As a result, the very idea of my kids having a stepmother causes me anxiety, and isn't something I'll consider on a whim.


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## TNHermit (Jul 14, 2005)

Laura said:


> I don't have a problem with the choices men make for their lives as long as they aren't trying to make choices that affect my quality of life. My life, my rules. DD and I choose to live in the No BS Zone. Some men are welcome, most are not. I don't feel I have to sacrifice any standards to "get and keep a man." Another will be along in 10 minutes.
> 
> Perhaps I'm not understanding what you're saying because we have different reference points. My children never ruled the roost. I have one child left at home. She is a late bloomer due to autism, and she is very gifted. She is to be protected, that's the job God gave me.
> 
> A man saying, "Me or her," the answer is easy.


Look at it like this. Hubbys "girl" (and this could be his could or both of yall's. I had 4 home grown and five handpicked as we called it.) is getting married. plans have been set. Five days before the wedding you have an accident of some sort. doc goes to hubby says can't do nothing for her she has three to five days. You were suppose to be at daughters the whole week. SO hubby comes in and says. Honey nothing they can do for you and daughter is getting married. SO I am going there since you are dieing. Told them to put you in cold storage and I will bury you when i get back. Think it can't happen. The true loyalty has just been laid out. And everyday less radical decision are putting one nail at a time in marriage coffins just like that.

I have a neighbor, actually two, R is a hard working hard nosed, up front kind of guy. He has a reputation for raising some of the best hunting dogs for hobby. I've seen him put down a whole kennels worth for one reasonor another. Not long ago his wife got cancer. There is nothing they can do. He rarely leaves her side now. Unless she is sleeping or someone is with her.and then only for an hour. If she wants Pie and Coffee at two in the morning they go get pie and coffee. This man cries when we talk about it. That is the devotion they have to each other. And the kids know it. His daughter lives on the other side of me. Her and her husband are the same way. They are good to their kids but don't get between them. These are two woman that should have books written about them and used as examples. The Guys maybe not  But the loyalty you see between these two couples is something that has taught me a lot.
Maybe your only a 3-5 marriage type. These people got married for life, till death they part. The only bad thing about it is I will probably lose a good friend shortly after she dies.
The "me first, my way or the highway" mentality has done its job on this nation. The birth rate is down and the illegals are taking over. Its not new its documented history. Kids growing up since the sixties have less and less loyalty and direction.

I'll probably never be married again because of what I believe. But sure ain't putting my self in a self destruct position. Kids only have to be kids. They don't have to do anything wrong. Just follow human nature. Its all in priorities


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## mickm (Jul 23, 2010)

Never thought twice about dating a woman with kids, but i like kids. More likely for me that i would like the kids, and end up not liking the mom. lol! 

I have been seeing a gal for the last couple of months that i graduated school with. I never knew her welk, but ran in to her and we chatted, then she called later and invited me to lunch. I was clueless she was attracted to me! 

Anyway...I met her son and it spoke volumes about her! Respectful, hardworking etc.. He is 19, and she basically raised him alone. It took longer for her to meet my kids, but she says it only made her more attracted to me.

So, its basucally a miracle thst anyone ever gets together with someine, but when ya meet the right one....

Its easy


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## Fowler (Jul 8, 2008)

I am a full grown woman child, so I prefer to date men without small children, because it"s all about me, me ,me , me!!!!....LOL!!!


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## farmgal (Nov 12, 2005)

I believe the 2 adults should come 1st, then the children. This should not pose any problems if it is 2 mature adults, with similar parenting techniques and good communication. It isnt a fact that you love your children any less. Our job is to raise children to be healthy independent adults. that move out of the house and start a life of their own. 

My guy is very mature, but just me mentioning he has to give me 1 weekend day for adult time, maybe twice a month, he got mad. Like I had 2 heads lol He takes his children every weekend. So I gave him 2 days to reflect on it. He came back agreeing. He needs to make room for us. It isnt like I am trying to get between him and his children. Its called date night, relationships need it. We arent young either. He had them late in life. He also works from 530am until 7pm or later every weekday. This doesnt leave us much time for us. We do travel a lot together when he takes off. that helps. But month spans of no adult time dont cut it in between.

We are just introducing the children to each other, slowly. So far so good. My sons 17 so no issues there. I think he is nervous and its reflecting on his children. he need to lighten up. They arent fragile china...and I'm not a boogie man...lol


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## bluemoonluck (Oct 28, 2008)

farmgal said:


> I believe the 2 adults should come 1st, then the children. This should not pose any problems if it is 2 mature adults, with similar parenting techniques and good communication. It isnt a fact that you love your children any less. Our job is to raise children to be healthy independent adults. that move out of the house and start a life of their own.
> 
> My guy is very mature, but just me mentioning he has to give me 1 weekend day for adult time, maybe twice a month, he got mad. Like I had 2 heads lol He takes his children every weekend. So I gave him 2 days to reflect on it. He came back agreeing. He needs to make room for us. It isnt like I am trying to get between him and his children. Its called date night, relationships need it. We arent young either. He had them late in life. He also works from 530am until 7pm or later every weekday. This doesnt leave us much time for us. We do travel a lot together when he takes off. that helps. But month spans of no adult time dont cut it in between.
> 
> We are just introducing the children to each other, slowly. So far so good. My sons 17 so no issues there. I think he is nervous and its reflecting on his children. he need to lighten up. They arent fragile china...and I'm not a boogie man...lol


A marriage/relationship will fall apart if the spouses don't make time for each other. Yes, the kids are important. Yes, the kids need attention. Yes, the kids need time with their parents. But your spouse/SO is also important, needs attention, and needs time with you!


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## mickm (Jul 23, 2010)

farmgal said:


> I believe the 2 adults should come 1st, then the children. This should not pose any problems if it is 2 mature adults, with similar parenting techniques and good communication. It isnt a fact that you love your children any less. Our job is to raise children to be healthy independent adults. that move out of the house and start a life of their own.
> 
> My guy is very mature, but just me mentioning he has to give me 1 weekend day for adult time, maybe twice a month, he got mad. Like I had 2 heads lol He takes his children every weekend. So I gave him 2 days to reflect on it. He came back agreeing. He needs to make room for us. It isnt like I am trying to get between him and his children. Its called date night, relationships need it. We arent young either. He had them late in life. He also works from 530am until 7pm or later every weekday. This doesnt leave us much time for us. We do travel a lot together when he takes off. that helps. But month spans of no adult time dont cut it in between.
> K
> We are just introducing the children to each other, slowly. So far so good. My sons 17 so no issues there. I think he is nervous and its reflecting on his children. he need to lighten up. They arent fragile china...and I'm not a boogie man...lol



The only thing ahout that, i disagree with is this.......

My kids come first, before me, before her, bwfore anything else.......

Now that doesnt mean that they are spouped brats, , but kids should come first. Grownups can taje care of themselves and should be, well um...........grownup


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## Fowler (Jul 8, 2008)

I wont date a man with kids.....way too much draaaaaamma and I'm a needy ....ahhhhh you get my drift.....LOL!!!!


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## Raeven (Oct 11, 2011)

I always heard that the most important thing a man can do for his children is to love their mother. I'm not a parent, so I'm clearly not qualified to weigh in... but I've been a kid, and from that perspective, that philosophy seems like a good place to start.

My late husband came with a daughter. That was never a problem for me. We were wonderful friends.


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## mickm (Jul 23, 2010)

Raeven said:


> I always heard that the most important thing a man can do for his children is to love their mother. I'm not a parent, so I'm clearly not qualified to weigh in... but I've been a kid, and from that perspective, that philosophy seems like a good place to start.
> 
> My late husband came with a daughter. That was never a problem for me. We were wonderful friends.


I suppose that is true to a point, but when the mom quits loving the dad and abandons the kids.....

I love my kids, my stepson from my previous marriage included......


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## bluemoonluck (Oct 28, 2008)

I'm not saying that you should make your kids second class citizens. But if your marriage/relationship is in trouble, it creates a bad environment for the kids. Therefore, a good solid relationship between the couple SHOULD be a priority. 

http://www.imom.com/ispecialists/dr...-can-give-your-children-is-a-strong-marriage/

http://www.amazon.com/Raise-Happy-Kids-Marriage-First/dp/0824525388


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## Terri in WV (May 10, 2002)

The one man I dated that had a kid, I treated as my own. After 20 years, I still miss him.

When my hubs and I got together I had my dd and he had 3 grown kids that I didn't get to meet until after we were together for 4-5 years. They lived a good distance away. After hubs and I were living together, I got tired of being the only one disciplining dd when she was doing something to him that I finally told him that he needed to say something to her if he wanted her to stop. He wanted to step into the father role.

If I were to get serious with a man now, I would hope that he'd want to take an active role in helping me parent. I wouldn't want a man that felt he'd be stepping out of place in disciplining my kids. It really is a two person job and I would hope that I have enough brains to pick someone that would have the same parenting style as I.

I also wouldn't have a problem getting serious with a man that has kids. Same rule would apply though. I'm not going to let someone else's kids get away with something I wouldn't let my own get away with. 

If both adults don't take an active role with the kids and work together to raise them, I really don't see how it could work, long term.


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## Raeven (Oct 11, 2011)

mickm said:


> I suppose that is true to a point, but when the mom quits loving the dad and abandons the kids.....
> 
> I love my kids, my stepson from my previous marriage included......


Mick, under the circumstance you describe, of course you are right. It's the exception that proves the rule, right? 

And yes; the reverse is equally true, that the best thing a woman can do for her children is to love their father. And I realize that this doesn't always work out, in either direction.


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## mickm (Jul 23, 2010)

I will agree that a hope where the parents love each other, is a happy home.

I am just saying, my kids came first. I would expect the same from someone i was seeing. No more important job, then being a parent. The kids didnt choose to be brought in to this world.

Its a responsibility, and a big one. So i have no issue with anyone who doesnt want to bring kids in to tgeir life. I dont feel that way, but i can sure see thier reasoning.


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## starjj (May 2, 2005)

I totally agree with adult time. Of course I am older and the men I meet are ones that have grown children. The one with the needy son also had a grown daughter who was married and complained that she never got to see her Dad after he meant me. She never saw him BEFORE she meant me as she never had time for him lol. The real problem was he had less free time to answer her phone calls asking for money. When you meet a man who has grown children you also have to find out how they treat him and if they are using him for their own benefit. Some will resent you for taking what they consider their benefits.


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## bluemoonluck (Oct 28, 2008)

Terri in WV said:


> If I were to get serious with a man now, I would hope that he'd want to take an active role in helping me parent. I wouldn't want a man that felt he'd be stepping out of place in disciplining my kids. It really is a two person job and I would hope that I have enough brains to pick someone that would have the same parenting style as I.
> 
> I also wouldn't have a problem getting serious with a man that has kids. Same rule would apply though. I'm not going to let someone else's kids get away with something I wouldn't let my own get away with.
> 
> If both adults don't take an active role with the kids and work together to raise them, I really don't see how it could work, long term.


It depends.... if the child's other parent is involved in their life, than the kid HAS two parents - and the StepParent is NOT one of them. It also depends on where the child lives for the majority of the time - if they live with you, than the stepparent can and should step into an adult role with the child a bit more than if the kid is only there on weekends/occasionally.

Safety issues ALWAYS need to be addressed by a stepparent, regardless of the living situation. 

But if the child has two involved parents and the stepparent tries to discipline the kid, it WILL backfire. I've seen enough of that mess when I was working as a counselor (and in my personal role as a stepmom to three kids) to know that the role of a stepparent is to be the fun Aunt/Uncle who will say something only if the child's safety is at risk or if it's something very very serious. Otherwise, the best thing to do is to inform the bio parent immediately of what's going on and let them handle it. 

Trust me, it will save you a LOT of turmoil in your life with stepkids if you look into "detachment" and learn to abide by it. 

http://secondwivescafe.com/articles/rq.shtml


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## Terri in WV (May 10, 2002)

Stepparenting can be a real shock for women who have never had any children of their own. 

That's the first sentence in the article you linked and does not apply to what I was saying(or the rest of it, really). Being thrown into the step parent role is something that should be seriously considered when entering a relationship, especially when one doesn't have any kids of their own.

But, if a person trusts someone enough to marry them and spend the rest of their life with them, they should darn well trust them enough to help with their kids. I can't imagine telling someone that I trust them enough to marry them, sleep with them and live my life with them, but hey, buddy, I don't trust you with the most important people in my life. :shrug: I wouldn't get remarried if I felt that way. I also don't think its fair to the partner to not have involvement in what goes on in the house they are living in. I believe that detachment will eventually lead to resentment.

When a couple are blending families, they should agree to the rules that they will use for all of the kids involved under that roof, just to save grief among the kids, and really for the adults too. And hopefully the adults will have worked out their ex drama before any new relationship develops.

Maybe I expect too much, adults to be adults.


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## bluemoonluck (Oct 28, 2008)

Terri in WV said:


> Stepparenting can be a real shock for women who have never had any children of their own.
> 
> That's the first sentence in the article you linked and does not apply to what I was saying(or the rest of it, really). Being thrown into the step parent role is something that should be seriously considered when entering a relationship, especially when one doesn't have any kids of their own.
> 
> ...


Problem is, you're not just dealing with your partner. There is another parent involved - and that parent has no reason to work with you. 

That parent can tell the kids they don't have to listen to you. 

That parent can sit the kid down when he goes back to their home and ask them to tell them "all the horrible things that stepparent did to you" this time.

That parent can feel as though they're being replaced by you, and start a campaign to get the kid to find reasons to dislike you. 

That parent may have different ideas as to how to parent theirchild, and if you do it differently they can tell the child that your style of parenting is abusive. 

I've experienced this first hand. I've worked as a professional counselor with kids being put thru this. It's ugly. Sometimes CPS gets involved because there are allegations of abuse. I know people who have almost lost their jobs due to false allegations. Kids learn they can play both sides against each other, and they get good at it. 

The only way to avoid the drama is to refuse to play the game - and you do that by detaching. Detaching is how you AVOID feelings of resentment. 

I've got kids of my own and I have stepkids. I've got a masters degree in adolescent counseling. I've read and talked to people who have lived in steplife. I'm not saying I have all the answers, just that I've done my homework on this. You can take it or leave it, as you see fit.


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## MDKatie (Dec 13, 2010)

bluemoonluck said:


> It depends.... if the child's other parent is involved in their life, than the kid HAS two parents - and the StepParent is NOT one of them.
> 
> But if the child has two involved parents and the stepparent tries to discipline the kid, it WILL backfire..
> 
> ...


I disagree. It's called a stepPARENT, not a step-"dad'swife". LOL. I met DH a little over 7 years ago, and his kids (my stepkids) are now almost 8 and 10. He and their mother have split custody, right down the middle. If I couldn't be a parent to the kids, I would not be with him. I'm not trying to replace their mother, because they have one already.  But DH is not always home, so I can't imagine always saying "wait until your father gets home" every time something happened! ound: When the kids are with us, I'm the "mom". Not as in trying to be their mother, but I'm a mother role. I help with homework, take care of them when they're sick, etc. I treat them like I'd treat them if they were my own children.

I don't have any children of my own, so yes, there are/were some issues with me learning to parent. It's a good thing I have a wonderful mother and sister I could talk with about parenting, and vent sometimes if needed. I've also seen a wonderful counselor as needed. Plus, my DH is absolutely wonderful!! He has been great about integrating me with them so I don't feel like an outsider, nor do the kids. I do bow out of decisions about the kids (when not directly related to our household), and let him and their mom make decisions, and I will NEVER ever try to come between their mother and them. I want them to have a good relationship with their mom, so I would never undermine her. 

It was hard at first, to deal with having step children, and to have to have her (their mother) in our lives constantly, but we set healthy boundaries and that has really helped a lot. And there are times I still have trouble dealing with being a stepparent, but for the most part it's good and I've got it all worked out (well, for now, as the kids grow new issues seem to arise). There are a lot of stressful situations when you're a stepparent (especially when you don't have any of your own), don't get me wrong. 

BUT, I will say, DH is SO special and if (god forbid) anything ever happened between us and I suddenly found myself single, I would not date a man with children again. I think a big help to my situation is that the kids were very young when we got together (I don't think either of them remember me not being in the picture). Now that I'm getting older, men I'd date would have older children. I can't imagine coming into a relationship with teenage step children.


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## vicker (Jul 11, 2003)

If I were dating anyone, I would love to date someone with children. I had young children at one point, but missed out on all of the later things in their lives. For a long time being around children was just too painful for me to do, but I have gotten over that a few years ago, thanks to a couple of families in my church who had piles of kids . I'm probably too old for someone with younger kids now though. Maybe grand kids.


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## Terri in WV (May 10, 2002)

bluemoonluck said:


> That parent can tell the kids they don't have to listen to you.
> 
> That parent can sit the kid down when he goes back to their home and ask them to tell them "all the horrible things that stepparent did to you" this time.
> 
> ...


This is not adult behavior and should be noticeable before any I do's are ever said. If I were to see/hear of that kind of drama I would not get involved.

MDKatie, It sounds as if all of you have been adults and worked together for the kids. I think that's the way it should be, I commend you all for it. It's a shame more people can't do that.


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## MDKatie (Dec 13, 2010)

Terri in WV said:


> MDKatie, It sounds as if all of you have been adults and worked together for the kids. I think that's the way it should be, I commend you all for it. It's a shame more people can't do that.


One thing we all have in common is wanting the best for the kids, and wanting to work together to provide that. We don't always agree on what their mom does (and I'm sure she feels the same way about us), but unless it's a danger to the children, we keep our mouths shut. Sometimes there are disagreements, but they're getting fewer and farther between. I've always made sure to be respectful to their mom, and except for one incident, she has been respectful of me. And the kids know their mom and dad discuss goings on, so any time we have thought they may be playing sides, we nip it in the bud! 

It was very difficult at the beginning, but it gets easier it seems. It is so hard being a stepparent...you have all the work and none of the appreciation it seems. You're expected to treat them like your own, but not try to take over as the parent. LOL. You don't have much say sometimes, and that's hard....and sometimes you have "these people" in your house, eating your food, dirtying your walls, taking your seat, etc. But it works out. :happy2: It definitely takes a special person to handle it, and a special spouse to help understand.


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## starjj (May 2, 2005)

If children come first before the spouse be it original father or step parent the children quickly learn that this is a way to divide and conquer. I don't think any relationship could survive that. My personal opinion is your spouse is first and you are united. Not saying any step parents should be allowed to abuse your children but if your not willing to give your partner equal input in "your" children then you don't need to be married to them.

I have seen too many men that think they "owe" their children and when grown the children expect it.


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## mickm (Jul 23, 2010)

Man, these kids are terrible! 

Glad i was never one


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## farmgal (Nov 12, 2005)

I like her advise best about step children. She doesnt start the stepchild stuff till about 5min, but the marriage stuff is good too. this is pretty much how I handle things. I suppose it is a form of detachment. 

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v5rTstHZlwg[/ame]


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## Laura (May 10, 2002)

Ex spouses are exes for a reason. Sometimes they are filled with petty jealousy and manipulate the kids to cause problems for others. Isn't that a regular topic of divorced parents?

I think the children set the terms of the relationships with their parents' new partners. You may think of yourself as stepPARENT, kids may see you differently. Their boundaries should be respected if they don't accept you as a parent. Being recognized as Dad's Wife, or Mom's Husband is a respectable place. StepMomster and all those other creative names kids have for the people their parents marry are rooted in truth.

You as the newest member of family dynamics do not know what the kids have been through emotionally. Even their REAL parents don't know their entire story.

While you do need to have a relationship with the kids, and you do need to have clear personal boundaries, I don't think it's appropriate for non-biological adult household members to mete discipline to the kids.


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## MDKatie (Dec 13, 2010)

Laura said:


> , I don't think it's appropriate for non-biological adult household members to mete discipline to the kids.


I think it's really dependent on each specific family. Perhaps if the kids are older when the relationship begins, or if the kids are only living w/ the non-custodial parent and step parent a fraction of the time, then yes I think it should probably be left up to the biological parent. 

In my case, I can't imagine living with the kids exactly half of the time and not having the ability to discipline (we're talking time outs, etc, never any spanking). I am an equal partner to my husband, I pay half the house expenses, it's MY house too, and I can't imagine having no say in what the kids do when they're here. Usually he is here, so I let him handle it (because many times he's more patient that I may be), but when he's not here I'm not going to ignore bad behavior if there is any.

I like the video that was posted...I agree that stepparentss should step back when it comes to decisions like disagreements, decisions, etc. But I don't believe that step parents should be totally hands off and not have any part of the discipline. My DH made it clear to the kids that I'm a parent too, and they have to listen to me like they listen to him. He also told them he has to follow the babysitter's rules when they're at her house. Same thing, they need to follow directions of the adult in charge.


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## Laura (May 10, 2002)

Well yeah, it's your home, personal boundaries should be established and respected. That is up to the parent to see that kids respect the boundaries of the new spouse and establish the new dynamics. Boundaries will be tested, power struggles will ensue. This will be way less volatile if the new adult isn't trying to "Parent," but work with less threatening models of relationships with kids. 

Adults need to recognize there are some battles they cannot win with children. You cannot control what goes in or comes out of children. You cannot control their thoughts, dreams, fears, or what they think of you. 

Much of my adult life I've been Aunt Laura with an open door to my home for kids to have a safe place away from their families. Step parent issues seem to be the leading cause of problems for these kids.


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## mickm (Jul 23, 2010)

You gotta pick yourbattles!

But, thats with everyone!:nana:


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## littlejoe (Jan 17, 2007)

I love kids as well as anyone, but if someone expected me not to take a role in the upbringing of a kid under a roof that was "ours" whether or not that child was my blood, I wouldn't think that was any kind of relationship that I'd want to be in.

It's a tough position to be a friend and a leader, but leading/parenting is best done by example. 

There is a simple philosphy...you make the right things easy and the wrong things difficult.Force can be used if necessary, but make sure it is, as little as possible but as much as necessary. The phsycology of it all comes into play as well. It's a thought process that I havn't mastered, but that I wish I was better with in all aspects of life. It works with horses and other critters, as well as kids.

That's why I say *ANY(can I make that any bolder?)* relationship is about mutual respect, and if it's not there, you need to find out how to get it there, or get out of it!

The last relationship I was involved in, her x ran his mouth to much with his daughter, and his friends just trying to create controversy. I ignored it, hoping it just quit. It didn't, until I beat on his door early one morning and invited him to the country to settle it. He declined, and that was the end of his talkiing smack. Respect... you can use force if necessary, cuz phsycology might not be an option. But, they have to know you are capable of a buttwhupping taken or given, if it comes to that. 

Kids come first always? HOGWASH! What kind of a SO would accept that? Why would anyone want to be in that kind of a relationship? For sure they need to know how important they are. But, in a marriage situation two unite to become one. Spouses need together time, to talk of hopes and dreams and plans for the future, as well as R&R. Even a few hours here and there.

I've made more than a few mistakes in all aspects of my life, so I'm no guru. Just adding a few thoughts into a discussion.


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## vicker (Jul 11, 2003)

Well said.


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## Fair Light (Oct 13, 2010)

I agree 100% Littlejo.., well said indeed.., true words of wisdom...


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## FarmboyBill (Aug 19, 2005)

yep. What he said.


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## starjj (May 2, 2005)

Well said LJ The whole MY children come first is BS. If you are not going to let the "new" spouse parent your children do yourselves both a favor and move on to another that will accept being second fiddle IF you can find and keep one.


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## mickm (Jul 23, 2010)

Oh i would definite expect someone i was in a long term relationship with to help with the parenting, and i would help.

If we are just dating...... My kids are priority.

I dont understand kids not coming first. kids slways come first. now that doesnt mean you drop everything for a child's whim. it does mean that they are the parent's most important responsibility.

Ever. period.


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## littlejoe (Jan 17, 2007)

mickm said:


> My kids are priority.
> 
> I dont understand kids not coming first. kids slways come first. now that doesnt mean you drop everything for a child's whim. it does mean that they are the parent's most important responsibility.
> 
> Ever. period.


You are looking at it from a different perspective than some. You've got a youngster at home yet. And he's what age? seems like 7? For sure your biggest responsibility is beiing a parent to him! I never seriously dated until my youngest was a jr in high school.

I can't imagine the thoughts going through a young kids mind when a parent is with another than the other parent? I'm not dissing anyone who does, just wondering about the questions in a childs mind? My kids were older, but we sat down and heart to heart discussions about me dating.

As a parent, our job is to raise them into wholesome citizens, to be thinkers, to have a mind of their own. To leave the home and start a life of their own. As much as it hurts to see them do it, it's still our job.

When they do leave, it's just you and the spouse. Will she be the one you always placed second, or the one you placed first?


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## mickm (Jul 23, 2010)

He's 11.

I get what your saying, though!


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## SimplerTimez (Jan 20, 2008)

I think what we often have here is a cultural shift where kids have become overly important. My parents never asked me MY opinion on what they were doing with life. They were the parents, what they said went. No arguments.

My children mean a lot to me. And I had a 2nd marriage where there were times that I had to make a call about the kids that did not go the way my husband wanted it to. He was much younger and had never been a parent. He wasn't always reasonable in his perspective. Their father was still involved in their life as well.

And if a Torah perspective is brought into the discussion, as biblical perspectives have been mentioned, the only commandment is for children to honor their mother and father. 

Step-parenting is terribly difficult. But if the two adults do not make their relationship the priority and example, children can and do get the upper hand. Keeping someone separate from children seems a good idea if you are simply dating. But when a marital or live-in decision is made, positioning of the partner is of primary concern. This aspect should be openly discussed between the adults wayyyy before they have reached the point of daily life integration with children in my opinion.

As to being open to dating a man with children at this point in my life? He'd probably be far too young for me to consider  So that saves me a lot of headaches, lol!

~ST


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## mickm (Jul 23, 2010)

When i say kids should be the priority, i sure dont mean to let them run your life.

I dont think an adult should get their hair ruffled because of sick kids, school prograns, balk games, graduations etc... raising kids takes time. i am also not gonna stick my kid with a sitter, so i can go spend time with someone insecure.

When your in a relationship, kids can cause strains, even when they are not step children.


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## Laura (May 10, 2002)

> i am also not gonna stick my kid with a sitter, so i can go spend time with someone insecure.


I totally agree with you, Mick. Childhood and life are too short to waste time on sucky people. I turn down dates because I know hanging with the kids will be way more fun and emotionally satisfying.

What I find amazing following this thread is the quick transition from "Dating" to authoritarian dominance in cohabitational situations. This validates my dating rules, and why DD has veto power on anyone considering pursuing a relationship. The Rules protect both of us. The men who get her Thumbs Up have Good Fruit.


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## MDKatie (Dec 13, 2010)

Laura said:


> What I find amazing following this thread is the quick transition from "Dating" to authoritarian dominance in cohabitational situations.


Where did you read anything like that? 

It has to be difficult being a single parent when it comes to dating or marrying. It would be hard to find a good balance between putting the needs of your children and your responsibilities of being a parent first, and not losing sight of being an individual person (with needs) as well. Kids do eventually grow up and move out, and dedicating 18+ years of your life (way more usually, especially with multiple kids) to children only would leave you pretty lonely when they move on and get their own lives as children do. That's hard even in "intact" families. 

And imagine being a stepparent in a house where a 10 year old has more say than you do, or you're constantly told you have no say with regard to anything the kids do, even in a home you pay for. Yikes.


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## SimplerTimez (Jan 20, 2008)

Laura said:


> I totally agree with you, Mick. Childhood and life are too short to waste time on sucky people. I turn down dates because I know hanging with the kids will be way more fun and emotionally satisfying.
> 
> What I find amazing following this thread is the quick transition from "Dating" to authoritarian dominance in cohabitational situations. This validates my dating rules, and why DD has veto power on anyone considering pursuing a relationship. The Rules protect both of us. The men who get her Thumbs Up have Good Fruit.


Wow. I think I got lost somewhere along here.

~ST


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## Laura (May 10, 2002)

MDKatie said:


> Where did you read anything like that?
> 
> It has to be difficult being a single parent when it comes to dating or marrying. It would be hard to find a good balance between putting the needs of your children and your responsibilities of being a parent first, and not losing sight of being an individual person (with needs) as well. Kids do eventually grow up and move out, and dedicating 18+ years of your life (way more usually, especially with multiple kids) to children only would leave you pretty lonely when they move on and get their own lives as children do. That's hard even in "intact" families.
> 
> And imagine being a stepparent in a house where a 10 year old has more say than you do, or you're constantly told you have no say with regard to anything the kids do, even in a home you pay for. Yikes.


I think most people DO move relationships that fast and stick their kids right in the middle of situations they are unable to cope with people they don't know. Somebody's going to experience emotional abandonment.

I'm not finding dating difficult at all. I never have. Enforcing the boundaries on other peoples' agendas is easier long before it hits the perimeter of the No BS Zone. We'd rather it not roll through our door. Men, and I'm sure women do too, reveal their agendas. It helps to spot them early. We shouldn't let "chemistry" grease the rails to unhealthy attachments, especially ones that affect the wellbeing of our children.

Yes, there are many people who have a hand in the upbringing of children. I have a huge extended family. I had multiple adults in the way of aunts and uncles, some related some not. Family is always there for family and I'm always happy to have young cousins who call me Aunt. These relationships with Other People's Kids are not Parenting.


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## MDKatie (Dec 13, 2010)

Laura said:


> These relationships with Other People's Kids are not Parenting.


Of course not, because those people weren't in a parenting role.


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## Laura (May 10, 2002)

MDKatie said:


> Of course not, because those people weren't in a parenting role.


 Exactly. Neither is a parent's spouse.

The commonality is there are still relationship responsibilities and often under the same roof. We have relationship responsibilities with roommates and friends. Just because one is an adult, the other a minor does not make it a parent/child relationship. Just because you marry a parent, you do not become parent to those children unless those children choose to trust you as an adult first.

I think these events should be way down the road from Dating.


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## MDKatie (Dec 13, 2010)

Laura said:


> Exactly. Neither is a parent's spouse.
> 
> The commonality is there are still relationship responsibilities and often under the same roof. We have relationship responsibilities with roommates and friends. Just because one is an adult, the other a minor does not make it a parent/child relationship. Just because you marry a parent, you do not become parent to those children unless those children choose to trust you as an adult first.
> 
> I think these events should be way down the road from Dating.


Well I couldn't disagree more. Besides just my situation, I know several other step parents that are just as much of a parent as their actual parents. On of my friends has a little boy, and that boy's bio father is not in the picture at all. Her husband is her son's father, and that's all there is to it. You'd never know he's not the son's bio father, and the son loves him and only knows him as Dad. Would you say adoptive parents aren't really parents? Another friend has a stepson, and the boys bio mother had another baby and moved away. Now she sees her son maybe a week out of the whole month, and my friend is the second parent the rest of the time. She's definitely a parent to him. 

In my own case, I'm with the kids exactly as much as their parents are, so I do play a big role in their parenting. I don't claim to be their mother, and I don't want to take her place, but I am an important part of their lives. 

So, I'll step out of this thread now, because it's getting personal for me. Laura, I don't expect you to know about how important of a role stepparents can play, because from what you've said you've never seen or personally experienced it or else you wouldn't have the opinion you do have. I'm not my stepkids' mom, but I'm a darn good stepmom and no stranger on the internet is going to tell me I'm not a parent just because I'm not blood related to "my" kids. 

That's all I have to say about that. :thumb:


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## mickm (Jul 23, 2010)

Yea, i have been both. my step son from my marriage still comes to ny house most weekends. he is a good kid, that i love, and i am honored he still has sonething to do with me!

All this has nothing to do with dating.


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## Ardie/WI (May 10, 2002)

When we married, DH was 26, I was 36 and I had two children, 7 and 14. He was my DH, not their stepfather. Their father saw them on weekends.
The relationship grew on its own.

I found it interesting that my DD grew up calling him her father but her daddy lived in another city. In other words, daddy was for fun and games but her father meant stability. To this day, she (age 43) is still closer to him than her biological father.


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## mickm (Jul 23, 2010)

All i was saying is font discount dating someone because of kids.

There msy be a completely different reason to hate them, then their kids!


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## Laura (May 10, 2002)

Okay, I reviewed the thread and I don't see any step kids posting on how great and wonderful and loving their stepparents are.......The flak is parents and stepparents seeking validation for their choices.

I'm not denying it works for some, but going off what kids themselves tell me, grownups need to be way more mindful of their emotional responsibilities and the emotional wellbeing of other people's children. I'll play the Mom Card FOR anyone who needs it. I won't play it ON anyone but my own kids.

In dating, and considering dating someone, which I don't consider a relationship, I am stunned at how many men attempt to assert dominance and authority over me and mine BEFORE relationship. I don't think it's a coincidence these are also the men whose idea of "dating" is coming to my home with me feeding them and being their entertainment.

No.

Survivors of the culling process are secure in their masculinity, show themselves to be safe, trustworthy and respectful to DD and I, and she is drawn to them in friendship. Chivalry is not DEAD.


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## notthereyet (Nov 17, 2011)

Laura said:


> Okay, I reviewed the thread and I don't see any step kids posting on how great and wonderful and loving their stepparents are.......The flak is parents and stepparents seeking validation for their choices.


I guessed you missed my reply. My dad was more of a dad to my step-sisters than to his biological children, but that was a custody thing, not a parenting thing. Their mother was and is a wonderful parent and is always there for me and my sister when we need her, even 31 years later. I would have had no problem living with her, even though I've always considered her a bit of a religious nut (SDA).

The biggest problem with my stepdad, was that he got us when we were 6&7 and had no parenting experience. Combined with the fact that he was an alcoholic, it was a miserable 8 years with him, though he taught me to shoot a gun, fix a bike, change the oil, build a shed, drive a car, and the proper usage of foul language. If it weren't for the alcohol, he would have learned to be a great parent. Even 28 years after the divorce, I still talk to him on occasion.



> I'm not denying it works for some, but going off what kids themselves tell me, grownups need to be way more mindful of their emotional responsibilities and the emotional wellbeing of other people's children. I'll play the Mom Card FOR anyone who needs it. I won't play it ON anyone but my own kids.


Playing the mom/dad card for other people's children is awesome. In terms of dating, playing that card ON OPC is not an option. As the relationship progresses (co-habitation / marriage), both adults need to realize that they are choosing to share their lives together, and being a parent is part of life and also needs to be shared. This means that when the time comes, the natural parent(s) MUST give the step-parent permission and authority to play the mom/dad card as needed.

Again, the problem I have in my marriage, is that my DW will not play the mom card ON DD, therefore, I can not play the dad card. It's a really cruddy situation.



> In dating, and considering dating someone, which I don't consider a relationship, I am stunned at how many men attempt to assert dominance and authority over me and mine BEFORE relationship. I don't think it's a coincidence these are also the men whose idea of "dating" is coming to my home with me feeding them and being their entertainment.
> 
> No.
> 
> Survivors of the culling process are secure in their masculinity, show themselves to be safe, trustworthy and respectful to DD and I, and she is drawn to them in friendship. Chivalry is not DEAD.


Your right. At the dating stage, there is no responsibility, and by extension, there can be no authority. Anyone who would assert parental authority does not deserve another date. Who knows how they'll be at later stages of the relationship.

On the other side, back to the OP... dating someone with children. If that person does not assert his/her parental authority over their own children, I now know that the dating needs to come to an end. There's no way a bad parent could ever make for a good spouse. For me, it was a lesson learned 5 years too late.

-NTY


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## Terri (May 10, 2002)

notthereyet said:


> There's no way a bad parent could ever make for a good spouse.
> 
> -NTY



Oh, I don't know. My FIL admitted that he was a poor father, but he was a darned good husband! 

In his own defense, he pointed out that his own father died when he was very young, and he had NO! idea what he was doing so he made it up as he went along. He did not do a very good job of it, I am afraid, though he tried hard. According to my husband his step dad *IS* his Father, because he raised him! And, his step Father DID care for DH: a child needs love as much as he needs guidance! DH's birth Father left and never came back but his Step Dad loved him and he stayed. 

Now, FIL also did not have a role model to be a husband but he did hit on a formulae that worked for him and my MIL: if it was inside the house she could do WHATEVER she liked! This suited my MIL very well indeed!


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## Groene Pionier (Apr 23, 2009)

I think you are all very brave with dating while you still have -young- children. I took the simple road, not dating at all. And now my children are going to be teenagers, i am surely not dating. I will wait until they are out of the house, I have been single for 8 years, adding another 8 will be doable


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