# The Staff of Life



## Guest (Aug 3, 2009)

It's Sunday and that means time to make the weekly bread. We mill all of our flour and meal and this is a big part of what we use it for. Been having some poor luck lately but tonight's baking came out pretty well. Whole wheat with millet and a secret Dun Hagan ingredient.










Sure hope the new mill comes in soon! Otherwise I'm going to have to start using the manual mill and when you need eighteen cups of flour for the weekly bread that's a lot of cranking! :grump: :boring:

.....Alan.


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## Wildwood (Jul 2, 2007)

Alan that's some good looking bread. Hmmm....secret ingredient huh?


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## Spinner (Jul 19, 2003)

Ummm that sure looks good! I can almost taste the hot bread slathered with melted butter. 

I've been baking my loaves in the bread machine. I think I'll start taking them out and putting them in loaf pans. Those loaves are so much prettier than my round ones.


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## AngieM2 (May 10, 2002)

That looks so good I can almost smell it.

butter, strawberry jam needed....


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## unregistered29228 (Jan 9, 2008)

Beautiful loaves! But no fair dangling "Secret ingredient" in front of us....


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## Guest (Aug 3, 2009)

rose2005 said:


> Must make some bread tomorrow a.m!


 Yes, I think you all should!

You get used to homemade you'll never go back to storebought again.

.....Alan.


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## Jakk (Aug 14, 2008)

MMMMMMM.... pass the butter please!


I have not made bread in a few weeks because our house is under constant mini construction. I think I need to get back in my kitchen and start baking.. boy do they look good!


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## Pelenaka (Jul 27, 2007)

In defense of manual grain mills Alan, there are two added benefits from cranking the old fashioned way.
Tends to be far less wasting of bread once everyone has had a few hundred turns grinding. I believe the term is appreciation that my children use. Then there is the exercise factor which helps when there is homemade bread in the house.
Good looking bread.

~~ pelenaka ~~


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## Calico Katie (Sep 12, 2003)

Alan, I've never used millet and I'm unfamiliar with it. What kind of flavor and advantage is there to using it with your whole wheat?


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## Guest (Aug 3, 2009)

Honestly I don't think the millet adds anything flavor wise, but we do like it for the texture. Gives the bread a bit of a crunch. I soak it in hot water for about ten minutes before adding it to the dough.

.....Alan.


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## halfpint (Jan 24, 2005)

How do you keep your bread fresh all week? I usually bake twice a week, as after about four days, the bread is not usually fresh enough for us - for regular eating or sandwiches that is since older bread is fine for toast, french toast, and having stewed tomatoes with.

Dawn


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## Guest (Aug 3, 2009)

Yes, it does freeze well. One loaf goes into the bread box as soon as it has cooled. The remaining loaves go into the freezer. Here in Florida a loaf is good for about three, sometimes four days before it goes over. Usually by the third day I'm ready to convert it into crumbs, French toast or something.

Use a medium loaf pan and you should be able to get the bread into a one gallon freezer bag. I don't keep bread frozen for longer than a couple of weeks at the most. Usually a week or less. I save our coffee bags (the 2.5lb size) for this. They're an alumized Mylar and pretty durable so it's easy to wash and reuse them.

For a while there we were eating six loaves a week, but consumption has slowed so that now it's only four to five which means every three weeks or so I can skip a Sunday and not run out of bread. It's as much trouble to make four pans as it is to make six.

I call this 'farmer's bread' in that I nearly always make it while I'm doing something else so I don't have a lot of time to fool around with it. As opposed to the more artisanal types where one usually has more time to devote to the project. Nearly always I'm making Sunday supper at the same time I'm doing the bread. This eventually developed into my system of doing the proof rise in the oven then baking from a cold start. Done right it makes for a great oven spring. Also means I don't have to fool with transferring the pans. Finding some place to raise six pans of dough at the same time would be hard to do!

.....Alan.


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## tinda (Jun 11, 2005)

secret ingredient ----- Beer?

just a guess:buds:


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## Jim-mi (May 15, 2002)

Just looking at that pix is enough to make one salivate. . . . . . .

huh . . . . .and I thought my home made looks good............


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## Tracy Rimmer (May 9, 2002)

That was just cruel.

I've been without my oven for two and a half weeks now. I've missed out on THREE farmer's markets (my grocery money), and I am getting a MITE peeved. We're waiting on a part to be shipped in, but I'm about ready to just go buy a new stove!

A friend lent me her bread maker. I gave mine away years ago, preferring the hand made bread -- but it's been keeping us in toast and sandwich fixings (two teenaged boys in the house, sandwich fixings are ABSOLUTELY NECESSARY!) but it sure isn't my artisan style bread. Beats the heck out of store bought, though!!!

But I might have to come down there and steal a loaf, Allan -- those are lovely loaves!


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## Guest (Aug 4, 2009)

Tracy Rimmer said:


> But I might have to come down there and steal a loaf, Allan -- those are lovely loaves!


 Well, sure Tracy! C'mon down and we'll make bread together. You can teach me how to speak Canadian! 

The way I make bread doesn't really use a recipe, but is rather more of a process. I am forever adding things, leaving them out, and other than the water I don't measure anything. Kind of maddening trying to teach others how to do it this way, but that's the way I cook.

I will give some generalities that I have found to be important though. The first being whatever you are doing stick with it until you understand what is going on. There are as many ways to make bread as there are bakers to make it _and they all work!_ It's only a matter of whether a given method can be made to work _for you._

Developing gluten is what it's all about in yeast bread. Some ingredients serve to strengthen gluten, others tend to detract from its strength. If you can add the strenghtening ingredients as the dough is being developed then add the weakening ones after the gluten web has been well developed. 

Probably the most common flaw I've personally seen in other people's bread is that they have added too much flour to the dough which serves to make it stiff, dry, and not given to good rising. I use a mixer for making my dough as six loaves is more than I want to hand knead at the same time. When the dough has been well developed and is ready to rise I handle it, punch it down, manipulate, whatever needs to be done using wet hands, not dry flour.

Underkneading is common too when doing it all by hand. A well developed dough should have a satiny look to it. I usually do my breads with a mixer, but once in a while I'll do a loaf or two manually to keep my hand in so to speak. All of our pizza dough is hand kneaded.

When doing the raising keep the dough in a moist environment. Slow, cool rises give a more complex interesting flavor, but they also take longer so sometimes a warm place is the way to go. Moist is key because you don't want the dough to be losing moisture. I keep a spray bottle that makes a fine mist. Once the bulk dough goes into the big bowl I mist water over the top then put it into my proof box which is our microwave. Once risen to at least three quarters of its volume I gently punch it down, turn it out onto the dough board to divide it up. Remember to use wet hands, not dry flour. I can't get six even loaves by eyeballing it to save my life so I finally gave it up and got a scale. You can see a piece of it in the photo above. For medium loaf pans twenty three to twenty five ounces of dough per is good.

As I mentioned earlier I do the proof rise in my oven then bake from a cold start. The pans go in, I spray a fine mist over the top then in the broad shallow baking pan on the rack below I pour a cup or so of water, usually hot if the oven is cold. When exactly to turn the oven on after the dough has risen is somewhat experiential so you'll have to try it a few times to get a feel for it. Generally speaking when the dough is about two thirds risen I'll turn on the heat. Give a final misting of water over the top, close the door and let them bake. Nearly always I'll get a good oven spring to make those nice rounded tops.

The most important thing though is to simply keep doing it until it clicks for you. Everyone bakes their share of bricks. That's part of paying your dues. Stick with it. It'll come together for you sooner or later.

.....Alan.


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## Tracy Rimmer (May 9, 2002)

Giving a steam rise at the beginning of baking almost ALWAYS gives you those lovely, rounded loaves. For those who don't have a mister, toss a couple of ice cubes on the bottom of your oven when your bread goes in, and it will improve your oven spring.

Like you said, Alan -- increasing the function of the gluten (increasing the protein in your loaves is the easiest way to do this) increases the rise. The only thing I would add is to make sure you use ENOUGH flour -- it's a fine balance between "enough" and "too much" -- if your dough is TOO wet, it won't hold the rise, and you'll end up with fallen loaves, which is just DEPRESSING after all that hard work!

I've had much better luck with long, cool, moist rises than warm rises. The higher the content of whole grain flour (as opposed to processed white flour) in your dough, the longer and cooler your rise should be. I've recently started experimenting with fridge-rising, we'll see where that takes me 

Assuming my oven ever gets fixed :grump:


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## Wisconsin Ann (Feb 27, 2007)

hmm...molasses..maybe. I use honey in my whole wheat bread..gives it a lovey flavor and keeps it moist a lot longer, but the color DOES look like a molasses or sorghum 

Artificer HATES whole wheat bread. comes from his mother baking bread when he was a kid. Whole wheat with added wheat germ (too much wheat germ) and flax. "it's GOOD for you. EAT IT".

He's okay with multigrain breads, and loves rye and pumpernickel, so it's not all bad....and when I make Whole Wheat, I get to eat ALL of it


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## Ode (Sep 20, 2006)

Maple syrup? Buckwheat honey?


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## Wisconsin Ann (Feb 27, 2007)

dag nab it...I'm going to bake bread today. You've gone and made me hungry for it! I've been trying REALLY HARD not to eat bread lately...but I swear I can SMELL that bread in your picture. 

I do have to relate my first bread baking experience tho. My mom and grandma were fantastic bakers. So...I tried my hand at a whole wheat. I went to the basement and got my flour out of grandma's hoosier cabinet 'cuz her bread was always great and I wanted to be like grandma. 

I didn't sift it again (I was only 10 after all), but I punched and kneaded that dough....oh my....I let it rise until it was over the loaf pans..Put it in the oven under my mom's supervision. I could hardly wait for that bread to come out.Smelled heavenly.

We took it out and there were these horrible nasty WORM things sticking out of it all over...like a pin cushion. EWWWwwww. I learned a lesson that day. When your grandma dies you really shouldn't use her stash of flour from an open container a year later 

just sayin'......


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## AngieM2 (May 10, 2002)

Ann - more protein?


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## Nana B (Feb 3, 2008)

Alan

The first word that popped out of my mouth when I saw your bread was that's gorgeous. I have never made bread before but would like to learn how. Do you have an easy recipe that you would suggest for a first timer? 

Thanks


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## Guest (Aug 5, 2009)

Nana,

Any _simple_ bread recipe will do. If you have a favorite cookbook then use one from there. I wouldn't try some complicated artisanal recipe right off. Simple loaf bread is what I'd go for.

The key thing is to keep at it until you achieve success. Every baker produces their share of bricks. It's part of paying your dues. Stick with it and you'll get there.

Use fresh ingredients - especially the yeast unless you have reason to know better.

Dry, stiff doughs do not rise well. Handle the dough with wet hands once you have finished kneading it.

Knead the dough enough. If you're going to do it by hand it's virtually impossible to overknead. The finished dough should have a smooth satiny look.

Don't try to force the dough to rise too fast. Also keep the top of the dough moist as it is rising and when it first goes into the oven.

Just do it. It'll become clear as you go along.

.....Alan.


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## LWMSAVON (Oct 8, 2002)

Those look so purty and tasty!!

I have bread to make myself either today or tomorrow. Nothing like warm, homemade whole wheat bread fresh from the oven. YUM!


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## rickd203 (Sep 11, 2005)

My new neighbor gave me some bread she made with flour she ground herself. It has to be the best bread I have ever had. I wasn't sure if I should put butter on it or frost it like a cake. Most of it I just ate plain since it didn't really need anything on it. I have asked her to show me how to bake bread like that. If she does show me, I will be sure to take really good notes.


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## papaswife (May 25, 2008)

Beautiful bread! Lots of good info from everyone, too.
I confess to taking it easy, a Whisper Mill and a Bosch mixer.
I have arthritis, and "trigger finger" (ring fingers) on both hands that make kneading all but impossible. 
I am so thankful for these machines. 
Sometimes we have to adapt to make life easier, but we can still 
provide good bread (Bread Good!) and other healthy eating choices with a little creativity and Googling online for many different options.
I love HT! Where else can we learn and have fun doing it? )
Linda In CA


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## LWMSAVON (Oct 8, 2002)

papaswife said:


> ...
> 
> I confess to taking it easy, a Whisper Mill and a Bosch mixer....


That's what I use too. Every now and then I'll knead the dough though to take out some frustrations. lol


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## Woodpecker (Mar 8, 2007)

That bread looks delicious. I've never made bread but Im inspired to try now.


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## Guest (Aug 6, 2009)

papaswife said:


> I confess to taking it easy, a Whisper Mill and a Bosch mixer.


 No problem with that at all, because that's exactly what I used. A WhisperMill and a Bosch mixer. Six loaves worth of dough is a lot to knead at one time by hand, but the Bosch handles it all with aplomb.

Alas though my trusty old WhisperMill is beginning to play out. We ordered a Retsel MilRite to replace it with but it hasn't come in yet.

Ann posted a photo of the bread she baked yesterday. Anyone else baking? Let's see some pics!

.....Alan.


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## papaswife (May 25, 2008)

Let us know when you get your new mill. My old Whisper Mill is getting up there in age-my other alternative is a very. very old hand mill from about 1976! )
It may still work fine....but I may have to put Papa to work with that one. )

Linda In CA


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## GrannyCarol (Mar 23, 2005)

I was shown a "trick" to seeing if the gluten is well developed by a friend, it helped my bread baking immensely! I mix the dough in my Kitchen Aide (if I'm not using the bread machine either on the dough setting or all the way through) and use about 3/4 of the flour (I usually make two loaves at a time) and mix until it stretches somewhat like taffy. There is a big difference between dough before and after it develops that stretch. 

Once it does that, I add a little flour and run the mixer to incorporate it and continue until there is just a tiny bit of dry flour whispering around the mixer - the sound makes a definite change. Then I run it a bit longer until the mixer is nice and clean and it usually ends up a good texture for me. Your mileage will probably vary. 

I live in a dry climate, sometimes hot and sometimes cold. When it is cold, I find my bread machine makes better dough that rises more reliably than with the same recipe when I do it with the mixer. 

I also raise the bread in the oven and just turn it on when I am ready to bake. To proof it, I add a small bowl with hot water. I usually just let it get pretty close to my final size and turn the oven on. Generally I remember to remove my bowl of water.  I'm going to try more moisture in the oven after reading this... I think its about bread day tomorrow! I may have to mess with it more than usual.


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## Ohio dreamer (Apr 6, 2006)

Those picture are dirty pool!! I'm down to one package of yeast and won't buy more till we get moved.....Yes we usually buy it by the brick, but I finished it up so I bought 3 packets to get us through....got to have our pizza fix.

No fresh bread for us till the end of Sept :Bawling:


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## Colorado (Aug 19, 2005)

Great looking bread. So evenly browned.


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## Catshooter (May 11, 2009)

Alan,

Nice looking bread!

Where did you order your new Retsel from?


Cat


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## Guest (Aug 12, 2009)

Direct from the manufacturer at www.retsel.com. 

.....Alan.


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## Guest (Aug 24, 2009)

A local artisanal bakery gave me a bit of their sourdough starter on Saturday. I took it home and started feeding it so that come Sunday I could give it a try.










I haven't fooled with sourdough in a very long time so I wasn't sure how it was going to turn out. I cheated a bit with this one. I couldn't give it an all day rise so I used a teaspoon of yeast in addition to the two cups of starter, but a mere 1/6th tsp of yeast per loaf didn't seem to affect it much. 

The starter was originally either a rye or white flour sour. I didn't think to ask when they gave it to me which one it was. My bread baking is all whole-wheat but it seems to have made the transition. It will gradually evolve and likely become a bit more vigorous as it does.

The dough was a lot slower to rise than my regular yeast doughs and I didn't attain quite the loft I usually get, but I'm happy with it. Next time I'll start the dough in the morning and let it do it's thing all day until the evening when I can make the loaves. 

This particular batch has toasted sunflower seeds.

Who is baking lately?

.....Alan.


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## MOgal (Jul 27, 2002)

I'm just getting around to reading this thread. Wonderful info, Alan and others.

The only mill we've ever owned is a Retsel Mil-Rite. Like our Excalibur dehydrator that we also purchased in the early 80's, I can't say enough good things about that mill. I've used it for WW flour, cornmeal, rye, rice and other things I can't remember at the moment, and the flour can be made as fine as you wish. It's easy to crack wheat for cereal as well. 

Not baking today. I'm making apple butter to put on the next batch of bread I do make though.


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## cheryl-tx (Jan 3, 2005)

Your bread sure is pretty and so nicely browned, great job there!


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## partndn (Jun 18, 2009)

This is very interesting! My web searching about grinding my own flour is what eventually led me to this forum and finding all your informative folks!

I still have not done wheat berries, but I want to. I thought I was aspiring to save for a Country Living Grain Mill, due to the high praise I had seen on the web.

I can't afford it any time real soon anyway. And now you guys mention this Retsil company, that didn't even come across the radar when I was searching a few months ago. Made in USA according to their site, which is important to me. Sturdy and long lasting? 

Now I'm undecided on what to dream for!!!:stars:


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## Guest (Aug 24, 2009)

Nothing like reading widely and thinking on it for a while. Lots and lots of reviews of all the more common mills if you Google for them.

If I wanted a hand mill that could turn out bread flour, but wasn't sure how much I was actually going to use it I'd go with the Family Grain Mill. Durable, good price, will make fine flour in a single pass. If you want to you can later on add the motor option or save it for your back up and step up to a better mill such as the Country Living.

.....Alan.


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## partndn (Jun 18, 2009)

Thanks Alan..
No buyin here yet, just hopin. More info the better!


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## StevenB (May 12, 2002)

Alan,

Did you post a review or impressions of your new mill? Do you like it? How is it in relation to the Whisper Mill in ease, capacity..etc.

For that matter, have you got it yet!?

I'm not trying to be nosy, just value your opinion very much.

Thanks,
Gopher


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## Guest (Aug 26, 2009)

Hasn't come in yet. The site says "two to eight weeks" before it ships and from reading the experiences of other folks who have ordered one it'll be the full eight weeks plus shipping time before it comes in.

.....Alan.


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## Guest (Sep 7, 2009)

Well, after last weekend's failed batch of hamburger buns I tried to use the sourdough starter in I decided to go back to loaf bread again. We were about out anyway.










It's still not quite the pan fill I'm looking for, but not a bad batch just the same.

This time I made the dough up this morning after breakfast and let it rise all day. It's not a vigorous starter, but it does eventually get there.

It smelled wonderful while it was baking.

Anyone else baking?

.....Alan.


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## AngieM2 (May 10, 2002)

Not baking, but I'll volunteer to try out one of those loaves.

Very good looking bread.

Angie


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## Guest (Sep 7, 2009)

Well, sure Angie. C'mon over and we'll cut one! I'll even pull out a few jars of home made jam... 

.....Alan.


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## sgl42 (Jan 20, 2004)

i made 2 batches of bread, and 2 batches of cinnamon-raisen bagels last wed, as it was the first slightly cool weather in a long while. (each batch is 16 hamburger-sized buns, or 16 large bagels.) got the freezer stocked for a few weeks now. 
--sgl


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## raybait1 (Sep 30, 2006)

Great looking loaves. 
I started making my own bread about a year ago after reading a post on this site that interested me. I started with a bread machine. Once I realized how it all worked I was using a mixer and hand kneading in no time. Ive experimented and added different things. Oatmeal and jalapeno was out favorite. Ive been trying to add garlic but I come out with a nasty sticky mess every time I do. Any advice on adding garlic?


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## Guest (Sep 7, 2009)

Photos people! Post photos! This will help to encourage others to start baking as well.

raybait, garlic has some pretty strong antibacterial properties. I suspect, especially if you used raw garlic, that it had a bad effect on the yeast. I've never tried putting garlic into the dough, but what I'd do is try kneading it in at the very last moment before you set it aside to rise. Not too finely chopped and not a lot of it.

There are a number of herbs and spices that can have negative impacts on yeast growth - cinnamon being a big one - so that you have to be careful how you use them.

.....Alan.


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## no hurry (Mar 16, 2008)

Try roasting your garlic and then adding it when you would add fruit or nuts (just before baking). Its amazing.


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## beaglebiz (Aug 5, 2008)

how do you get your crust so nice and brown??


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## raybait1 (Sep 30, 2006)

Heres one of mine just out of the oven. Not as pretty as some I have made.
Yes its white, dont shoot!


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## Guest (Sep 8, 2009)

beaglebiz said:


> how do you get your crust so nice and brown??


I use both milk and eggs in my dough which contribute a nice crust color. Brushing the top of the dough with milk before baking will do the same if you're not going to use it in the mixing.

Nice looking loaf there raybait!

.....Alan.


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## Guest (Sep 14, 2009)

Third time is the charm with this sourdough starter. This time I got back close to the pan fill I was getting when I was still using bakers yeast.










I never make bread quite the same way twice. This time around I discovered some cans of sweetened condensed milk that I'd bought back in 2006 that needed using as it was beginning to look more like butterscotch than condensed milk so in it went. I left out the dry milk and the brown sugar and it worked OK. The speckly stuff was the last of a jar of quinoa that I wanted to clear out. Diana and I just had a slice apiece with butter and we're happy. Wish it would rise a little faster, but can't have everything I suppose.

Anyone else do any baking this weekend?

.....Alan.


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## unregistered29228 (Jan 9, 2008)

Wow, I'm envious! My bread never looks that good...although it's better each time. Practice makes perfect. And I'm convinced that kneading is the answer.


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## Guest (Sep 14, 2009)

Mom_of_Four said:


> My bread never looks that good...although it's better each time. Practice makes perfect.


That's it in a nutshell.

Part of the reason I put all of these photos in one thread is to show exactly what you've said - getting better each time.

My last batch of loaves using bakers yeast.









The first batch of loaves using the sourdough starter.









The second batch of sourdough.









And last night's batch:









We do get better with repetition.

For you folks who have been wanting to try your hand at bread making JUST DO IT.

ESPECIALLY you folks with a lot of wheat in your food storage but who are not actually using it. There is NO time like the present! Now is the time to pay your dues and learn how to make good bread.

If you make a brick or two in the beginning that's OK. We all do. Learn from your mistakes and carry on. You'll eventually get there just like we all did.

Once you get used to home made you'll never go back to store bought again. And your food storage program will advance by leaps and bounds.

.....Alan.


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## TheMrs (Jun 11, 2008)

Does anyone have a tried-and-true recipe for french bread using freshly milled flour? I have a NutriMill and make all of our sandwich bread, muffins, pancakes, etc., but I haven't been able to make a decent loaf of french bread from freshly milled flour. My loaves don't rise well and are hard as a rock. If I make it with processed white flour they turn out fine, but I'd rather not use bleached flour. Thanks!

BTW..your bread is gorgeous! I'm going to borrow a few of your pointers in my own breadbaking, especially the importance of misting with water. Thanks for sharing!


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## bee (May 12, 2002)

Well; I make a WW, honey, Pecan meal,oatmeal and turkey egg bread that is like eating cake! I'll post the recipe if anyone is interested..it is for the bread machine as the dough is a bit stickey to handle. Sorry, I'll take a pic next loaf.


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## GrannyCarol (Mar 23, 2005)

bee said:


> Well; I make a WW, honey, Pecan meal,oatmeal and turkey egg bread that is like eating cake! I'll post the recipe if anyone is interested..it is for the bread machine as the dough is a bit stickey to handle. Sorry, I'll take a pic next loaf.


Sure, I'd like the recipe! I can use a bread machine and I'm sure that duck eggs will work just fine for the turkey!


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## hengal (Mar 7, 2005)

Wow is all I can say!! What gorgeous looking bread! I've been toying with the idea of baking my own bread and I think you just may have inspired me Alan (and others!). Alan, may I ask... what are the dimensions (roughly) of the medium loaf pans you use, do you know? 
And Rose - those different types of breads you listed off sound wonderful! Do you have any recipes you would care to share? Thank you! Can't wait to fill the house up with the smell of baking bread!


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## Guest (Sep 16, 2009)

hengal said:


> Alan, may I ask... what are the dimensions (roughly) of the medium loaf pans you use, do you know?


 8.5" x 4.5" x 2.5" I believe. Mine are all plain steel.

Go for it!

.....Alan.


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## hengal (Mar 7, 2005)

Thanks so much!


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## Guest (Sep 21, 2009)

Who's baking! Let's see some photos. We've got folks out there who need encouragement to get started with their own bread making.










The bakery that gave me the sourdough starter makes a very good white sourdough with pecans and cranberries. As much as I like it I'd like it better still in whole wheat so tonight I gave it a try. I toasted some pecan halves, threw in some Craisins, and this is what I got. The tops are a bit lumpy from the nuts.

Diana and I just had a couple of slices and they're excellent. I'd have had still more but we ate a big supper and I'm stuffed. I'll definitely be making these again.

.....Alan.


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## MountAiry (May 30, 2007)

Great looking loaves Alan. Good job, you made me hungry, lol.

And hey Raybait1? I love white bread! Bake it all the time and yours looked delicious.


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## Guest (Oct 19, 2009)

Alright you lot. I've cut you several weeks of slack because I've been too busy to bake but we ran out of bread over the weekend so I fired her up.










This is just plain sourdough this time because the kids were complaining about the fancy stuff (philistines...). Next batch I've got some seven grain cereal I want to include for a multi-grain bread.

Now the weather has cooled down all over the country so no more excuses! Let's get with it and get some baking done. Who's baking lately? Let's see photos!  We've got folks storing wheat that aren't using it. We need to encourage them to get with it! Better for them to learn NOW when they can throw out their mistakes rather than having to choke them down regardless because they can't afford to waste the food after the deal has gone down.

.....Alan.


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## Wisconsin Ann (Feb 27, 2007)

Anyone else worried that the whiskey bottle changed? Went from Bushmills to a Jameson. I can understand WHY it's there when you bake bread...but really...Jameson?


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## Jim-mi (May 15, 2002)

Alan I gotta ask what prompted you to go from b yeast to the sourdough ?
You got me wondering how wheat bread-sourdough would be like . . .
The only sourdough bread I've had was "white" bread.


Yup . . You ain't prepped iffin you don't bake your own bread...........

Caution::::Home baked bread IS HIGHLY addictive::::::


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## Guest (Oct 19, 2009)

Wisconsin Ann said:


> Anyone else worried that the whiskey bottle changed? Went from Bushmills to a Jameson. I can understand WHY it's there when you bake bread...but really...Jameson?


Now listen at the woman. Does she say 'Alan that is some delicious looking bread!' No, she does not.

Does she say "Alan, you've inspired me to get up and bake today.' No, she does not.

Does she say "Alan, you're driving us all mad with this constant blather about making bread?' No, she does not.

Does she say anything about baking at all? NO! She knocks my choice of spirits!

The BREAD, woman, the bread! 


Jim-mi said:


> Alan I gotta ask what prompted you to go from b yeast to the sourdough ?
> You got me wondering how wheat bread-sourdough would be like . . .
> The only sourdough bread I've had was "white" bread.
> 
> ...


 It was purely happenstance. There's a small store over to Micanopy that I sell eggs to. They have a masonry oven they use to make bread to sell on the weekends and use mostly sourdough to make it. We were talking bread making one day after I'd brought their hen fruit and she offered me a start of theirs which I took to be polite. After getting home with it I figured I'd may as well try it though I hadn't fooled with sourdough in a good many years. The first batch came out OK though I didn't get the rise I usually get with bakers yeast. The second batch was better, the third better still. Last night was the fifth I think.

The new will probably wear off after awhile, but for now I'm enjoying it. It's a good skill to learn for prep purposes anyway and the starter is easy to keep. In an extended no-power situation I'd have to bake every two to three days anyway so I wouldn't need to keep the starter in the refrigerator as I do now when I only bake once a week.

.....Alan.


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## Tracy Rimmer (May 9, 2002)

Okay, you wanted photos....  




















These are from a while back. I'm still battling with my stupid oven -- working on a replacement at the moment, and I can't WAIT until I'm back into full production!


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## Guest (Oct 19, 2009)

The part still hasn't come in? It's been more than a month now hasn't it? Maybe you should take a baseball bat with you the next time you see your repair man! {laughing}

Good looking bread! I've been wanting to try fancier bread shaping, but I've usually got too much going on at the same time I'm making bread to do it.

.....Alan.


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## Wisconsin Ann (Feb 27, 2007)

Some of us have different priorities...ahem.  (they ARE lovely loaves, btw. and you HAVE gotten me off my butt and into the baking mood)

okay. Back to bread...

Alan mentions having to bake every two or three days anyway...yup. Sourdough is a GREAT thing for extended no power situations. Make sourdough pancakes every morning and you keep your starter happy. Bake a loaf every couple days, instead of baking half dozen loaves once a week or two.

I've recently had to rethink how I cook/bake and it's much more ... hmm...daily oriented. We're building a masonry heater with oven in it. The heater maintains a constant temp once it's going for the winter, so it's easy to just pop something into the oven. This is an EXCELLENT way to go for off grid living or "no power for weeks" living. Small meals, no left overs. If there is leftover bread, it can become bread pudding the next day. Or sliced up in the morning and fried in bacon drippings


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## Tracy Rimmer (May 9, 2002)

A.T. Hagan said:


> The part still hasn't come in? It's been more than a month now hasn't it? Maybe you should take a baseball bat with you the next time you see your repair man! {laughing}


It died in the middle of July. It's "fixed" now, as in, I *COULD* use it if I had to -- but it's not optimum. The flow is unreliable, and I'm sick of the black film on everything -- it's a propane oven, and I have to bake with the window open. Southern Manitoba in October, you don't normally want your windows open.

The repair guy has told me that he's done all he can -- the stove is a lemon. The manufacturer isn't playing ball. Apparently, a one year warranty is all one can expect on a stove, and at two years old, I shouldn't be expecting it to work properly. Silly me.

I will never, ever, ever buy another Premier brand product. Ever.


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## Jim-mi (May 15, 2002)

Part of my question--which I guess I didn't state very well--
is: Taste . . . between b yeast and sour for dark wheat bread. . . ??

Thinking maybe its time to deviate from my tried and true..........


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## Guest (Oct 19, 2009)

Flavor difference can be as pronounced or as minimal as you would like it to be. If you want a lot of tang to it then let your starter get really sour, use only a little in the dough, then give it a long cool rise time. It'll be tangy.

I'm not fond of it that way so I go the other way. Feed the starter a time or two so that it's cooking fast then use a fair amount in the dough. It'll still take at least half a day to raise it properly, but that's better than an entire day or maybe more. It'll have a subtle difference in flavor from regular bakers yeast raised bread and a difference in texture which I found to be very nice.

.....Alan.


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## Wisconsin Ann (Feb 27, 2007)

The sourdough bread will have a "tangy" edge to it. Goes well, imo, with whole wheat. I do NOT think it goes well with pumpernickel, but that's my opinion, and others just love it 

My mom used to add parmesan to her dark wheat sourdough breads. I remember those as being extremely tasty.


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## raybait1 (Sep 30, 2006)

Parmesan, now thats something I have not tried. Dangit! Now I have to make some bread.


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## Guest (Nov 5, 2009)

The new Retsel Mil-Rite mill is doing well. Compared to a high-speed impact mill such as I've been using these last ten years it is rather slow in output, but it can run for an hour and not get hot and isn't so loud that I can't hear myself think. Made my second batch of bread with flour I milled with it last Sunday. 

*First Batch:* Needed another half-hour or so of rise time.









*Second Batch:* Still not quite the pan fill I wanted, but getting closer.









There is a difference in the performance characteristics in the flour made with the Whispermill and the Mil-Rite that I can't explain just yet. So far as my ability to determine by feel is concerned they are both making the same particle size of flour, but the Mil-Rite product performs differently than the Whispermill flour. Not bad, just different. I think with the third batch I should back to where I want it to be.

.....Alan.


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## Guest (Nov 9, 2009)

*Third Batch:* Almost back to the pan fill I was getting with the Whispermill produced flour.










There is a difference in the performance characteristics of the flours produced by the Whispermill and the Mil-Rite. The Mil-Rite flour needs more time to absorb the liquid in the recipe. Once I allowed for that then I started getting better dough performance.

My starter has slowed down in activity which I am attributed to the weather or it may be my relative inexperience with sourdoughs. I gave it an extra feeding before using it and will do the same again the next time to see if I can get it to work a bit faster.

The color came out nicely on this batch though there is that one annoying little crust bubble. Sure makes the house smell good.

.....Alan.


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## AngieM2 (May 10, 2002)

Alan - again wonderful looking bread. Thanks for posting the characteristics of the various grinds of flours, so others can learn from your experience.


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## Guest (Nov 9, 2009)

To be clear the reason for the difference in performance characteristics is the way the respective mills crush the grain kernels.

The Whispermill is a high speed impact mill as is the Wondermill, Nutrilmill, K-Tec, and several others. The toothed plate within is spinning at a very high rpm so that when the grain kernel enters it is slammed between the spinning plate and the stationary one. The impact bursts the kernel into fragments which themselves are again slammed against the plate teeth until the come out the other side as fine flour. Some of the starch granules are damaged which makes it easier and faster to absorb the liquids in the recipe.

With the Mil-Rite as with the Country Living, Family grain mill, and others using a similar design the process is much slower because the mill plates are moving at only 120rpm or less. The grain kernel is abraded between the two plates gradually working their way to the outsidge as fine flour. Many fewer of the starch granules are damaged so the flour is slower to absorb liquids. Usually the flour is also not heated as much as it would be in an impact mill using non-chilled grain.

Both types can be used to mill flour from which good bread can be made, but they do not behave exactly the same in the dough making process. So if you switch from one mill type to the other and your bread suddenly stops working the way it always has that is likely the reason. Adjust your methods to accomodate the change and you'll be able to make good bread again.

.....Alan.


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## manygoatsnmore (Feb 12, 2005)

Alan, thank you so much for continuing to post the bread pics and what differences you are finding with different mills, rising methods, etc. I am learning with every post. I have Mom of 4's starter and need to give it a try in bread.


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