# Canning jar lids....how many do you keep ?



## TnAndy (Sep 15, 2005)

Just finished some new storage cabinets in the garage and built a couple of tall ones to store empty jars, one for pints, one for quarts. Now I need to inventory jar lids to see how we stand. How many lids do you figure you keep in stock ?

Pint jar cabinet...backs up to new base and wall cabinet ( which I still need to build the doors on )



















Quart jar cabinet:


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## hercsmama (Jan 15, 2004)

First off, nice garage!! Dh would love that!

Secondly, I put up quite a bit every year, and try to buy lids at the end of the season, when they go on sale. I get as many as I think I will need the following year. I've been known to take whole cases and clear shelves if the price is right.
I believe, I currently have close to 1000 lids, in unopened cases right now. Mind you, I just bought most of these this past summer..
I'm going to start this year, switching to the Tattler lids, but as they are spendy, it will be a process..


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## Ernie (Jul 22, 2007)

No more than probably a dozen. We switched over from canning to lacto-fermentation as a process and I'm much happier with the result.

Excess meat (a rarity) gets frozen until I learn how to smoke, cure, and dry it using lacto-fermentation methods.


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## Forerunner (Mar 23, 2007)

I've got my share o' lids....and jars, but agree with Ernie.

The day is fast approaching when some really old tried-and-true will be crucial.

Pemmican, anyone ?


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## Ernie (Jul 22, 2007)

Forerunner said:


> I've got my share o' lids....and jars, but agree with Ernie.
> 
> The day is fast approaching when some really old tried-and-true will be crucial.
> 
> Pemmican, anyone ?


People think "canning" is the old way because their grandmother did it. Really, it's not the old way. It's an industrial process that came about in the 1930's. No 1870's housewife would have utilized a method which meant she had to buy something every year!

What I would like to find is some of the big, old-style clay crocks to more properly ferment foods in. Including a couple of gallons of cabbage at a time.

We haven't yet discovered how long fermented foods here on the farm will "keep". They're too tasty. They get eaten too fast. I can't sleep at night if I know there's still pickles left in the jar.


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## Ohio dreamer (Apr 6, 2006)

I have a "tube" of lids, about 24-28 boxes of metal lids and about 500-700 tattler lids (I forget how many orders I've put in). I re-use lids for my dried fruit and veg that I keep in jars as well as for the mixes I make and keep in jars, I only toss out the bent ones.

Next we are going to work on making biltong for keeping meat. Along with Ernie and Forerunner, we are ones that feel we need to learn the old ways of doing things. Canning is rather modern and might not always be a possibility. But we are keeping the practice alive as long as we can


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## Forerunner (Mar 23, 2007)

Some years ago, back when we found ourselves smack dab between abundant income and abundant time on our hands to "experiment", we went bat stuff crazy rounding up earthenware crocks, old and new....and 5 gallon glass carboys.

Never have regretted that.

On the years when the fall cabbage crop is wonderful, we pack a couple five gallon earthenware crocks full of kraut and put them in the big, old school refrigerator (out on the porch) we use for winter cooling. We ate fresh crock kraut (occasionally with a skim of frozen, on top) all winter and part way into spring before it was all consumed.

No canning, no cooking, no spoilage.

Of course, canned kraut is nice, too. 

Goes good with home spun, canned polish sausage. :heh:


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## 7thswan (Nov 18, 2008)

Nice storage! Well , you have seen my pantry, I figure about 3000 jars in there and full boxes hidden. Then I have just recently taken a picture of my laundry room shelves with the boxes of empty jars I sorted out.I have 10 1/2 boxes of jelly jars that are going out to the pole barn-I don't put jelly in them because it's a waste of a lid,except when I make jalapinos for dh's work food. I'm getting cabin fever and need to declutter,or else. Not sure of how many lids I have, I buy them in a "sleeve" (bulk).


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## anniew (Dec 12, 2002)

I try to theoretically figure how many I'd need in a shtf situation. Ideally, I'd like to have four years worth, but time and money are not on my side. Drying veggies and fruits seems more economical. I hope to do more of that after harvest this summer.


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## Ernie (Jul 22, 2007)

Based on what I've read, in the old days ... winter veggies were sort of a rarity. You had the winter crops and the storable crops (like taters and onions) but for the most part it was meat and dairy through the winter.

Our diet is sort of like that now. It's largely pork and cabbage stews with whatever other veggies I find on sale. I failed at a winter garden yet again this year, but 9 days of below freezing weather was sort of a killer for anything I could have done. I don't have a heated greenhouse.

Canning food loses so much of its nutrition that I'd rather freeze it if we can't ferment it. 

Green grass is starting to come up now and we're putting the goats out on pasture some. The soil temperature is getting warmer. In about another week turnip seeds should start germinating and the Alaskan peas are already coming up and about 4" tall.

In this area, from the time the gardens stop producing until the time they start again, is about 2 months. Wild game or domestic stock can easily fill that gap.


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## Becka03 (Mar 29, 2009)

I have about a case of lids- but also have learned some fermenting and hope to do more this yr- I have 3 crocks-
we smoke meats and dehydrate as well


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## Ernie (Jul 22, 2007)

Becka03 said:


> I have about a case of lids- but also have learned some fermenting and hope to do more this yr- I have 3 crocks-
> we smoke meats and dehydrate as well


Can you describe your smoking process?

I smoked both some fish and some beef this past year but frankly ... it sucked. It was not at all tasty. I think I would have gotten more flavor out of my boots.

My wife read that those smoked and dried meats were not meant to be eaten like jerky (normally) but would be crushed or broken and added to stew pots, which made more sense. But by themselves they were tough and tasteless.

I didn't use a smokehouse or a commercial smoker. I built a drying rack out in the sun and had a mesquite fire smoking underneath them for about 20 hours.


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## ovsfarm (Jan 14, 2003)

"It all started with Nicolas Appert in early 19th-century France. At the time, Napoleon, knowing that his army marched on its stomach, offered a handsome cash prize for anyone who could come up with an improved apparatus for preserving food. Appert won the competition with a system of precooking, air-tight sealing and final processing in a newly designed glass canning jar. His wide-mouthed pint "bottles" were filled with hot cooked foods, stoppered with hand-cut corks fitted to the irregularities of the blown glass, sealed with a compound made of lime and skim milk and then finished in a boiling water bath. Appert declared that the meats, vegetables, fruits, soups, and gravies thus prepared would last for at least a year in the same excellent state. And he thus inspired a new industry.​ 
*ng Jars*

*







*For several decades thereafter, inventive minds experimented with container sizes and shapes, with glass, tin, wax and lead, and with various lid-clamping mechanisms. They focused on tin lids sealed with wax or composition materials, and eventually mold-blown glass jars threaded to accept a zinc screw top lid. By the time of the American Civil War two-piece lids made air-tight with disposable rubber rings or gaskets set between glass lid and jar were becoming popular. The Mason jar was on its way; air-tight home canning was about to become a domestic institution.
Familiar forms of canning jars were then called glass cans or fruit jars, probably because fruits were canned most often, and because the whole process was an extension of earlier preservation in heavy sugars. By the 1880s, American women, taking advantage of the lowering cost of sugar and the back-saving woodstove, had launched the annual summer routine of putting up the wealth of orchard fruit, along with garden vegetables and even meats." (From the History of Canning)​ 
I remember my Granny using wax in place of the canning flats and then when she opened a jar, washing the wax plug well and saving it for reuse. Has anyone here experimented with that method? IIRC, she would then use an old canning flat and ring to cover the top of the jar, mainly to keep the wax seal from becoming dislodged.​ 
I agree that pre-canning methods are a better bet for a possible non-industrial future, but I am also concerned about whether people could maintain the high levels of sanitation that would be needed to produce a reliably safe product.​


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## elkhound (May 30, 2006)

i have probably 1000 jars and i dont know how many lids...lol..a bunch is all i can say....but i do know this for a solid fact...you can reuse all those lids...again and again.if you are careful when opening them.lids truely are not an issue. i do want to extend garden farther into winter to save on every single jar and lid and work canning it in by eating fresh.


ernie my great grandaddy kept cabbages all winter in a trench where cabbages were pulled up root and all and stored in trench upside down covered in dirt and topped with straw.my dad helped him before his death in 1961.


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## elkhound (May 30, 2006)

heres a place to get nice crocs

http://www.redhillgeneralstore.com/housewares/kitchen/kitacc/Ohio-Stoneware.htm

they even have stone and wooden lids for them

i think they are cheap for what they are too.


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## elkhound (May 30, 2006)

check this out ernie....guy says one free download of all recipes

http://lpoli.50webs.com/Sausage recipes.htm#DRY


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## elkhound (May 30, 2006)

i also highly recommend the old brown copy from 30's from morton..it is full of info and methods.pig,beef,chicken and more.shows how to cure in hot weather too.


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## K.B. (Sep 7, 2012)

A 1000 lids (and rubber sealing rings if using the reusable types) is a good place to start 

More is probably a good thing to have on hand, though. When sales are going on with free shipping, the reusable lids end up being a good investment.

Keep in mind that a 1000 lids & jars will let you can (and store dehydrated/dry goods in the glass jars) more than a 1000 jars per year as each jar gets refilled and used again after eating the contents. If you keep the canning process going throughout the year (meats, beans, stock, soup, & taters are good to can in the winter), several hundred jars/lids will still give you a 1000 filled jars over the full yearly cycle.


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## Forerunner (Mar 23, 2007)

Ernie said:


> Can you describe your smoking process?


Roll, pack, light, inhale deeply.


I think you need some used glass cold frames.......

That Texas sun must just be itching to grow something, about any old time of the year......


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## Ernie (Jul 22, 2007)

Forerunner said:


> I think you need some used glass cold frames.......
> 
> That Texas sun must just be itching to grow something, about any old time of the year......


Maybe.

But the weather is hard on plants. You'll see 83 degrees as the high one day, then at night it will plummet down to 18 degrees and even stuff under tarps will freeze solid.

I think the wild temperature swings do more to damage plants than the extremes at one end or the other. Eventually I'll come across some windows and I'll build me some cold frames. I had fairly decent luck with them up in Illinois. I would imagine they would do well here, if I could preserve the heat trapped within.


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## unregistered29228 (Jan 9, 2008)

I've got probably a thousand standard canning lids, and about a hundred Tattler lids. But I dehydrate as much as I can in jars, and I do some fermenting too. I use an electric dehyrator, but have trays I can use in the car or any hot sunny place. I have a Hirsch crock I use quite often (sauerkraut in it right now), which was expensive but has paid for itself over and over.


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## plowhand (Aug 14, 2005)

Rocks, and even milk jugs/pop bottles filled with water will help hold a lot of heat during the night......like putting a burlap wrapped jug of boiling water in with baby pigs....


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## Forerunner (Mar 23, 2007)

Ernie said:


> Maybe.
> 
> But the weather is hard on plants. You'll see 83 degrees as the high one day, then at night it will plummet down to 18 degrees and even stuff under tarps will freeze solid.
> 
> I think the wild temperature swings do more to damage plants than the extremes at one end or the other. Eventually I'll come across some windows and I'll build me some cold frames. I had fairly decent luck with them up in Illinois. I would imagine they would do well here, if I could preserve the heat trapped within.


Use stone or brick for the perimeter and bank them with dirt on the outside.
Slant the grade, inside and out, to face the sun, and keep the plants as far from the glass as possible.
Use lots of compost so that your dirt is black.....

But.....you knew all of that. :shrug:


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## northergardener (Dec 12, 2007)

TN Andy, your cabinets are beautiful!

I went to one of those living history museums that re-created life on an 18th century farm. I went in the summer and the ladies were busy canning with jars and lids that looked just like what I use, which surprised me, but as Ovsfarm's post points out, canning has been around since Napoleon.
We chatted for quite a while. They smoked a lot of meat, and had lots of crocks of kraut and pickles, and dried foods, too, crates of apples and squash and potatoes in the basement root cellar which had a dirt floor.

Unused jar lids will last for decades if they are kept cool and dry. I suppose eventually the "rubber" gasket on the lids could dry out so bad that they are no longer useful, but I've never had that happen.

I haven't tried it myself, but I am told that if a jar lid is removed carefully so as not to bend it, it can be reused again.


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## elkhound (May 30, 2006)

fresh horse manure in bottom of cold frame was the main heat source for cold frames back in the day.horse manure heats up faster and hotter than other manures.theres a old bbc tv show from back in 70's shows traditional gardening in those nice walled gardens back before electricity.on cloudy cold days the windows had condensation on them.i cant think of the name of show though.


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## elkhound (May 30, 2006)

ok i am off here....going to go start a thread cause i am about to jack this thread sideways from original topic.....lol


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## calliemoonbeam (Aug 7, 2007)

TnAndy, you probably get tired of me saying this, but I just love everything single thing you ever build, lol! Your wife is a very lucky woman. 

I have about a thousand metal lids and about 200 or so Tattler lids and rings. I reuse my metal ones too, any time I can. If one gets too bent to use canning, I use it on jars I keep on the shelf full of spice mixes, etc. I think I have around 500 canning jars, but have lost track. As to where I store mine, I have a closet full of shelves that I keep most in and some in my pantry, which used to be the smallest bedroom before I converted it.

I'm also learning how to ferment, still in the baby stages but making progress. I've never been much of one for pickled things, so it's definitely a learning curve for me. I'm also learning the fine art of charcuterie, which is basically the art of preparing, curing and smoking meats.

My grandma (born in 1886) used to talk about how they stored food before canning, refrigerators and freezers got so popular. They stored onions, potatoes, cabbage, winter squash, and pumpkins in the root cellar to eat on during the winter. They dipped eggs in waterglass to preserve them over the winter. They had dried peanuts too.

They had a smokehouse where they kept meat hanging from hooks and on shelves. They would have these huge hams, and when they wanted some they'd take a plate and a carving knife out and just cut off what they need, bring it in and cook it. They kept chicken "on the hoof" so to speak, lol, and when she wanted one she'd just go out, grab it, give it a sharp whip with her hand and snap its neck, then pluck, clean and cook it.

They also "potted" meats by partially cooking the meat in hot grease, putting the meat in crocks and then pouring the grease over it to seal it from the air. She said meat would keep about six months that way. When you wanted some, you just went in, dug it out of the grease and then smoothed the grease back over what was remaining in the crock to keep the air out. Then you took it and finished cooking it, and it was as good as fresh.

They also made jelly, jam, etc., poured them in snuff jars (everyone had lots of leftover snuff jars apparently, lol - I remember using them for water glasses too) and sealed them with paraffin wax. When ready to use, they'd just pull the wax off, wash it and save it for next time, like ovsfarm said. If the jelly got a little mold on top of it before it was used up, they'd just scoop a spoonful out around it, throw it away and keep eating the rest of the jelly, and no one got sick from it. They had a big barrel of sorghum they'd dip out of as necessary. And of course crocks of pickles, kraut, etc.

There's lots more, but like Elk I'm seriously side tracking the thread, lol, so I'll stop!


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## Ernie (Jul 22, 2007)

A lot of the old timers would ingest some pretty big doses of bacteria with no side effect, but these days our guts are "dead".

I am convinced that pasteurization has been a curse to our health system. Previously when we would ingest harmful bacteria, the healthy bacteria in our guts would deal with it for us. 

But now all the food we eat is dead. It's pasteurized and irradiated until there's no bacteria at all, except whatever bad bacteria it picks up in handling and packaging.

I am a big proponent of raw milk and fermented foods and that's one of the reasons.


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## farmgal (Nov 12, 2005)

I also reuse my jar lids, as long as they look unchipped they seem to reuse just fine. If they get beyond a hot water bath use, I will use them in canning my olives which is a salt brine. No sense in using new lids when the salt destroys them. I also reuse small store jars that have a button top. they work great. I make sure they are thick jars and I have never had one break or not seal. I'm not dead yet...


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## 7thswan (Nov 18, 2008)

Mom used to use the parifin on her jelly/jams. One has to be real good at keeping the sides of the jar clean,so the wax can seal it up.
I too reuse lids. I boil them in water with bakeing soda to help "puff' up the sealing compound. My grandparents used to ferment, even milk -yeck- but I was too young to remember much about the milk. They had veggies in whisky barrels.Many vegtables last real well in my pantry,it's pretty cold in there.
Asfar as smoked Fish, my Dh buys it for me a lot, it is never dry, the smoke it's self cures. 
There is a newish book out about preserving food without canning.http://www.amazon.com/Preserving-Fo...s=preserving+food+without+freezing+or+canning


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## Tiempo (May 22, 2008)

I grew up on wax sealed preserves and potted meats too. And we had a chip pan, a pot of grease (it was lard) that was kept under the kitchen sink with a strainer basket in it. When we wanted to make chips (fries) we would take the pot out, stick it on the stove and make the chips.

After, it'd be left out to cool and set up then put back under the sink. Every few uses it would be strained through a fine mesh sieve to get the built up bits of fried potato debris while it was still liquid, then put back when set up again.


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## Guest (Feb 4, 2014)

I buy 2 cases of flats as soon as they show up at the dollar store. That's 100 dozen. I've reused flats with pickled stuff, jams, and salsa, but never anything pressure canned. Since I got married, we started selling some canned products, so I use new flats, and give the buyer a band, if they want it. We add a dollar per jar, and they cost $8 a dozen.


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## calliemoonbeam (Aug 7, 2007)

7thSwan, that's a good book, but it's not new, just a newer printing. I've had one for quite a few years.


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## tab (Aug 20, 2002)

Lots of lids plus some tattlers. Lids are on my, "can never have too many" list. Jars, too. 

Nice cabinets! Hope you have tons of filled jars.

Have a crock but it leaks, has since it was new. Have an old big one that I have been itching to put some sort of food in! One more skill to learn. Let's see, right now the list is something like, drying foods, cheese making, yogurt cultures, reloading, fermenting and so on. Boredom does not exist here  .


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## elkhound (May 30, 2006)

7thswan said:


> Mom used to use the parifin on her jelly/jams. One has to be real good at keeping the sides of the jar clean,so the wax can seal it up.
> I too reuse lids. I boil them in water with bakeing soda to help "puff' up the sealing compound. My grandparents used to ferment, even milk -yeck- but I was too young to remember much about the milk. They had veggies in whisky barrels.Many vegtables last real well in my pantry,it's pretty cold in there.
> Asfar as smoked Fish, my Dh buys it for me a lot, it is never dry, the smoke it's self cures.
> There is a newish book out about preserving food without canning.http://www.amazon.com/Preserving-Fo...s=preserving+food+without+freezing+or+canning


WELL.... i now have a copy on the way....thanks pal !


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## tab (Aug 20, 2002)

elkhound said:


> heres a place to get nice crocs
> 
> http://www.redhillgeneralstore.com/housewares/kitchen/kitacc/Ohio-Stoneware.htm
> 
> ...


I think they are the same crocks that Lehman's sell but they are much less! Thank you for the link.


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## unregistered29228 (Jan 9, 2008)

farmgal said:


> I also reuse my jar lids, as long as they look unchipped they seem to reuse just fine. If they get beyond a hot water bath use, I will use them in canning my olives which is a salt brine. No sense in using new lids when the salt destroys them. I also reuse small store jars that have a button top. they work great. I make sure they are thick jars and I have never had one break or not seal. I'm not dead yet...


I re-use canning lids too, if they aren't rusty, dented or otherwise look damaged. I also use pasta sauce jars that have the button top for pickles. But for any new canners out there - use NEW lids and follow the instructions in the Ball Blue Book exactly. You can experiment with less safe canning once you're more experienced.


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## Tarheel (Jan 24, 2010)

Wife sees TnAndy build walk-in cooler.....Tarheel builds walk-in cooler.

Wife sees TnAndy build greenhouse.......Tarheel builds greenhouse.

Wife sees TnAndy build new canning cabinets......if wife sees she will want Tarheel to build new canning cabinets.

TnAndy........enough all ready......take a break.......I'm getting tired....


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## TnAndy (Sep 15, 2005)

tab said:


> Nice cabinets! Hope you have tons of filled jars.


Yeah, these are just for the empty jars. We keep the full ones in a well insulated can pantry.


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## TnAndy (Sep 15, 2005)

Tarheel said:


> Wife sees TnAndy build walk-in cooler.....Tarheel builds walk-in cooler.
> 
> Wife sees TnAndy build greenhouse.......Tarheel builds greenhouse.
> 
> ...


Would it help if I told her none of this stuff is actually true.....I'm faking it all ?


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## Tarheel (Jan 24, 2010)

TnAndy said:


> Would it help if I told her none of this stuff is actually true.....I'm faking it all ?


Not really because she knows.......she sit on the porch and drank your ice tea, she already knows what you do.

Just be a little more considerate and send me plans in advance. It will make my life much easier.


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## AprilM (Jul 23, 2008)

I love this kind of topic. I really am interested in learning how to preserve more food without canning and freezing. I have experimented with some sausages and hams but have not had great luck yet. I am I interested in hearing if others are hanging meat for storage. We are also switching to more lacto fermenting. Sauerkraut has kept all winter in the cellar but the pickles got soft and mushy. Any advice from others? No matter how many jars and lids I store, I think we need other mehods for preservation.


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## Oldcountryboy (Feb 23, 2008)

Ernie said:


> People think "canning" is the old way because their grandmother did it. Really, it's not the old way. It's an industrial process that came about in the 1930's. No 1870's housewife would have utilized a method which meant she had to buy something every year.


A method my mother taught me was to can in lard. She grew up in the 20's and 30's and lived on a poor old farm. But she would talk about how they would cook up extra meat and place it in a crock and then pour hot melted lard over it, making sure it was all covered up. Then whenever they needed meat they would fish out so much meat for supper and warm it up over fire. The lard would melt off and then they would pour it back into the crock making sure it covers any meat still left in the crock. 

Now I'm living proof that it works. I have made venison sausage patties and fried them up. Afterwards I would place several patties in a wide mouth jar and pour hot melted lard over it to with a quarter on a inch from the top. I would then place the lid and ring on and when it cools it seals. I've kept several jars for months till I used them up and never got sick once. And they tasted great, just like I had just fried them for the first time.


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## Ernie (Jul 22, 2007)

AprilM said:


> I love this kind of topic. I really am interested in learning how to preserve more food without canning and freezing. I have experimented with some sausages and hams but have not had great luck yet. I am I interested in hearing if others are hanging meat for storage. We are also switching to more lacto fermenting. Sauerkraut has kept all winter in the cellar but the pickles got soft and mushy. Any advice from others? No matter how many jars and lids I store, I think we need other mehods for preservation.


Your pickles lasted longer than 2 weeks? You must be hiding them. 

To keep from going too mushy they have to have some sort of tannins added. Some people use tea leaves but we use mesquite leaves.


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## texican (Oct 4, 2003)

The number? haven't got a clue... there are stacks in the kitchen, and in the utility room... saw a case in the bedroom a few weeks ago while looking for something (didn't remember putting them there)... then there's large 'tote' stacked full...


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## Vosey (Dec 8, 2012)

texican said:


> The number? haven't got a clue... there are stacks in the kitchen, and in the utility room... saw a case in the bedroom a few weeks ago while looking for something (didn't remember putting them there)... then there's large 'tote' stacked full...


That sounds more like my house! I'm a little jealous of the OP's storage space. And I have a ways to go before I hit the comfort zone mark for SHTF situation. I just pick up canning lids every time the price is good. 

I don't have much comfort level when it comes to microbes in food, so while I still can I'm sticking to canning and dehydrating. I'm not overly concerned about loss of some nutrients as we eat so much fresh food in season. And canned veggies definitely are still back-up, I much prefer fresh. Right now we are eating mostly carrots, parsnips and winter squash from the fall. An occasional jar of beets or green beans. We would usually have kale, which rounds out the nutrients well. Was just given turnips that were excellent, so they will be part of the winter veg next year!


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## plowhand (Aug 14, 2005)

Ernie said:


> Your pickles lasted longer than 2 weeks? You must be hiding them.
> 
> To keep from going too mushy they have to have some sort of tannins added. Some people use tea leaves but we use mesquite leaves.


Grapes leaves work also.


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## K.B. (Sep 7, 2012)

plowhand said:


> Grapes leaves work also.


Cherry leaves have also been recommended to me, but I would stick with the grape leaves if they are available.


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## Ernie (Jul 22, 2007)

K.B. said:


> Cherry leaves have also been recommended to me, but I would stick with the grape leaves if they are available.


Oak leaves might work too. I believe they have the right amount of tannins.

At worst, might just figure out what you want to do with mushy pickles. 

One of the things about eating home food is that you have to learn to deal with different tastes and textures than the processed stuff. That has, and is, taking me a very long time. And all it takes is one trip to a restaurant or stopping at a convenience store to undo all the work.


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## bluefish (Jan 27, 2006)

Ernie said:


> Oak leaves might work too. I believe they have the right amount of tannins.
> 
> At worst, might just figure out what you want to do with mushy pickles.
> 
> *One of the things about eating home food is that you have to learn to deal with different tastes and textures than the processed stuff. That has, and is, taking me a very long time. And all it takes is one trip to a restaurant or stopping at a convenience store to undo all the work.*



Ahh, but wait til you turn the corner. One day you go to a restaurant and discover the food tastes funny. We very, very rarely go out anymore because we just don't like the food. I can cook way better than any of that. We positively dread the rare occasion when we have to eat fast food. It's gone from tolerable to barely able to eat it.



I've heard oak leaves work well if you have them. Horseradish leaves work ok as well. I've had about the same luck with them as with grape leaves.


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## Tiempo (May 22, 2008)

> Ahh, but wait til you turn the corner. One day you go to a restaurant and discover the food tastes funny.


Very true.


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## unregistered353870 (Jan 16, 2013)

I've always thought of canned food as just calories...whatever vitamins are left in them are just a bonus. Canning really is about survival for me. I don't know enough about it because my wife always did it, but I'm learning. I can't put a number on how many lids I have, but at my current rate they should last me the rest of my life. I keep them vacuum packed with oxygen absorbers. No idea if that helps, but it probably doesn't hurt.

I have done more of the lacto-fermentation stuff over the years than canning. I love the flavor and I believe it really is one of the best keys to good health. That being said, I won't trust my survival needs to that type of food storage exclusively. There are reasons it's an old way many people don't do anymore. Some of the reasons are stupid, but fermentation is not as reliable or "safe" as canning. That's mostly about preserving calories and preventing horrible illness/death...but that is pretty rare anyway if you use good practices. Nutrition-wise, fermentation not only does better at preserving, but even increases nutrition by unlocking tightly bound nutrients.


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## unregistered29228 (Jan 9, 2008)

thermopkt said:


> Ahh, but wait til you turn the corner. One day you go to a restaurant and discover the food tastes funny. We very, very rarely go out anymore because we just don't like the food. I can cook way better than any of that.


I can't stand the salt in all the restaurant foods! We ate at Olive Garden a few weeks ago, and I drank water all night long from all the salt. I seriously thought they accidentally put too much salt in my food, but our friends tasted it and said it was fine.

I think this food snobbery is a good thing, because we certainly eat healthier at home.


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## plowhand (Aug 14, 2005)

I tried the grape leaves in my pickled peppers. I just picked some off the vines, tame and wild muscadines....and put 2 or 3 in the bottom of my jar......ended up with crispy peppers without alum. Any help me not use alum I approve of.....................

There are alot of "forgotten" ways of doing things................that need/should be recalled before they are lost.


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## plowhand (Aug 14, 2005)

K.B. said:


> Cherry leaves have also been recommended to me, but I would stick with the grape leaves if they are available.


 Wilted wild cherry leaves can be fatal to goats, sheep, and cattle.....so I'd hate to use them in cooking myself......wild or tame.....the wild ones form some sort on cyanide in the leaf when it wilts....broke off the tree or wilted on the tree


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## AprilM (Jul 23, 2008)

I have always used grape leaves and have not had any problems in my canned pickles but in the lacto ferment they did not seem to work.


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## hercsmama (Jan 15, 2004)

thermopkt said:


> Ahh, but wait til you turn the corner. One day you go to a restaurant and discover the food tastes funny. We very, very rarely go out anymore because we just don't like the food. I can cook way better than any of that. We positively dread the rare occasion when we have to eat fast food. It's gone from tolerable to barely able to eat it.


On that note, DH and I rarely eat out. I have RA, and in the last six months have gone gluten free, and am really trying to watch what I eat. No more commercially processed foods in our house at all.
Well, we were in town, and had been gifted a gift card to Red Lobster for Christmas, so decided to use it.
I had a chicken salad, no dressing, figured I was safe there, right? WRONG!!!!
I had a terrible flare up of my symptoms, that lasted about three days. My feet swelled terribly, and I could barely walk. It was awful. Even dh had some rather awkward intestinal issues for a few days.
That in itself was proof positive for us that eating out, and commercially processed food is the devil!:run:

Not to mention, we sat at that table eating, and discussing the fact that for the 40.00 we were spending on that one meal, I could cook at least 5 at home, that would taste better!


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## K.B. (Sep 7, 2012)

plowhand said:


> Wilted wild cherry leaves can be fatal to goats, sheep, and cattle.....so I'd hate to use them in cooking myself......wild or tame.....the wild ones form some sort on cyanide in the leaf when it wilts....broke off the tree or wilted on the tree


I was surprised to hear of their use, as well... but it came from my mother's side of the family who had used them before in their canning.


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## northergardener (Dec 12, 2007)

elkhound said:


> heres a place to get nice crocs
> 
> http://www.redhillgeneralstore.com/housewares/kitchen/kitacc/Ohio-Stoneware.htm
> 
> ...


They are cheap, but they are out of stock on the fermenting crocks. :Bawling::Bawling:


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## shar (May 3, 2006)

I have at least 100 dozen boxes of lids. At the end of the summer I buy up all I can find usually a $1.00 a box. In October I stopped in a Lowes and they had them at 50 cents a box, bought them all.


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## unregistered5595 (Mar 3, 2003)

thermopkt said:


> Ahh, but wait til you turn the corner. One day you go to a restaurant and discover the food tastes funny.


One day you become a cannibal and find out that clowns taste funny. 

5 or so years ago we ate some Campbell's chicken noodle soup and it was SO SALTY, it was terrible. We stopped eating manufactured canned food. I'd forgotten how bad it tastes.


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## terri9630 (Mar 12, 2012)

We've been raising our own meat for a few years now. The other night we went to a friends retirement party at a local steak house. My steak had no flavor. Didn't taste beefy to me. My husband said the chicken was "mushy" and all he could taste was the cheese. Normally I only put a pinch of salt on a steak but I used steak sauce just so I could eat it.


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## 7thswan (Nov 18, 2008)

terri9630 said:


> We've been raising our own meat for a few years now. The other night we went to a friends retirement party at a local steak house. My steak had no flavor. Didn't taste beefy to me. My husband said the chicken was "mushy" and all he could taste was the cheese. Normally I only put a pinch of salt on a steak but I used steak sauce just so I could eat it.


Same complaint here with Beef. I do not know what makes it like that.


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## hercsmama (Jan 15, 2004)

Well, I increased my jar lid count by 576 the other day!!
got my four cases of Tattler lids!!:banana::rock::banana:


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