# ear infection in standard poodle



## longhorngal (Aug 4, 2005)

We have an adult standard poodle for about a year and have battled a chronic ear infection since we've had her.
The latest (and probably last) thing we are trying with her is a treatment called EKT. Has anyone here had experience with this treatment?
Here's what's in it:
*EKT 3.1 % - Other Names: Enrofloxacin 1%, Ketoconazole 2%, Triamcinolone 0.1%*

It's been 6 days since the vet put it in and we are supposed to go back in 2 weeks for another dose. Psuedomonias is what I'm told she has. She was in poor condition when we got her and her hair so overgrown I didn't realize she had such a bad ear. We've done everything from oral antibiotics to Baytril injections and antibiotic ear wash. Seems to help for a bit then it's back to where we started.


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## marinemomtatt (Oct 8, 2006)

While you're at look at changing her diet.
We had a dog that had chronic ear infections, come to find out he was allergic to his food (Atta Boy, the only food he'd eat)


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## mekasmom (Jan 19, 2010)

Are you sure it's not simply yeast recurring and causing a secondary bacterial infection?


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## farmmom (Jan 4, 2009)

If this keeps recurring, you may want to speak to your vet about surgical options. There are two that I know of. One opens the ear canal so it can drain better, and it is also easier to clean and medicate. The other removes the ear canal, thereby removing the infection. The dog can still hear with the canal removed, but the sounds are probably muffled.


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## Maura (Jun 6, 2004)

Has the dog been to a professional groomer? Hair grows in a poodle's ear canal. This hair holds onto all of the ear gunk and the dog ends up with chronic yeast and bacterial infections. The hair MUST be pulled out. No medicine will clear up an ear infections if the hair is left in.

And ditto on the food.


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## bluetick (May 11, 2002)

I have a dog that is allergic to beet pulp found in many dog foods. In his case, his ear infection cleared up by switching to another feed.


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## Ross (May 9, 2002)

I'll second Maura's post, well said!


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## longhorngal (Aug 4, 2005)

Yes, she's been to a groomer-hair in her ear is not a problem. The vet doesn't feel she has an allergy problem, this is the third vet and none of them thought she had allergies.
I don't know about the ear canal removal, the vet said they still might have a problem with abcesses after the surgery and still have to be put down. I mean this is a chronic, stinky, yellow draining ear infection. No telling how long she had it before we got her. Was hoping someone hear may have info on the med we're trying now but I guess it may be too new still.
thanks for the replies!


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## Wolf Flower (Dec 21, 2005)

longhorngal said:


> Yes, she's been to a groomer-hair in her ear is not a problem.


I'm a groomer, and I always learned (from other groomers and vets) that you HAD to pull the ear hair or it would cause infections. So I always did.

One day, a lady called me after I'd groomed her Wheaten Terrier and told me I had "given" her dog an ear infection because I'd pulled the ear hair. I was rather shocked. I called her vet, and asked every other vet I knew about the problem. Seems the thinking has changed since I learned how to groom, and now they are saying that pulling the ear hair can open up and irritate the follicle, which allows bacteria to catch hold, thereby causing infection.

Needless to say, I no longer pluck ears unless the client wants me to.

If your vet cannot solve the ear infection, try another vet before you start thinking about surgery. Another client of mine had a Standard Poodle with chronically infected ears. They'd tried everything and nothing worked. They finally went to another vet, and the next time I saw the dog, her ears looked beautiful. Apparently the new vet had some other ideas and found something that worked.


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## oregon woodsmok (Dec 19, 2010)

What has worked for me is a grain free diet and washing the ears out with a 50/50 mixture of rubbing alcohol and white vinegar every day for a week.

Antibiotics don't usually help ear infections. 

You have to be alert with the new generation of vets. Too many of them are more interested in dipping into your pocket than they are in helping the animals. They will take all of the money you give them, whether it will help the dog or not.


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## mekasmom (Jan 19, 2010)

I agree with the post above mine by oregon woodsmok. Dog's ear infections are almost always yeast and they can cause a secondary bacterial infection. But the problem is yeast not bacteria. Try treating that. The alcohol/vinegar retards yeast growth. Honestly, consider yeast as the problem not the shape of the ear, not hair, not other things. Hair aggravates yeast by keeping the ear moist, but the problem is yeast. Treat the yeast, and you will solve the problem. You just have to remember that yeast is recurrent, so you have to keep the ears washed out with alcohol at least a couple of times a week even when they are well.


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## Txrider (Jun 25, 2010)

My GSD had terrible ear infections... 

I had to give her a triple antiobiotic ear wash daily for weeks at $60 a bottle, and oral antibiotics at the same time to get rid of it..

But it turned out to be an allergy thing with her. Once I started feeding her food with no corn or wheat in it she hasn't had a problem since..

Seems the food allergy allowed a yeast infection to start, which then allowed bacteria an opening to start, and after month and months a thousand bucks in vet bill going to a grain free food was the ticket. Her coat is significantly thicker and more plush now as well.

Washing the ears weekly with 50/50 water and white vinegar is a good idea as well, though I haven't even done that for about a year. My vet is going to yell at me for that as he's the one who told me to wash em weekly with it.

It couldn't hurt to try it. I fed "Taste of the wild" to her, but "Wellness" and a few other brands are out there with no corn or wheat.


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## derm (Aug 6, 2009)

The constant vet bashing on this forum makes me sick, reallly nearly every thread has some person talking about money grubbing vets just out to take peoples cash. I spend most of my time in the canning forum where people have some decorum but drift over here periodically to see if I can help anyone and feel like an idiot every time. How do the mods, who are veterinary professionals even want to stay over here? Vets make less than all of the other health care professionals except some nurses. Ninety nine point nine percent of Vets care about and have dedicated their lives to the well beaing of animals at a level greater than any poster on here, but I will try to help the original poster and then go away until I calm down. 

Psuedomonas, the bacterium that your vet identified is the top end worst, most resistant bacteria that we see in ear infections. In fact outside of MRSA, it is the toughest I see. It is highly resistant to the majority of antibiotics. It also has no problem dissolving the eardrum and hanging out in the middle or inner ear needing surgical drainage to remove. I am very sorry your rescue pup has this, it can be a beast to get rid of. Some times you need culture to make sure it is not resistant to what you are using. Sometimes you need anesthesia with flushing the canal and to make sure it is not a polyp or is in the inner ear. Almost always it takes a long term course of the strongest antibiotics made. 

To the people telling the OP to just start flushing with alcohol, keep in mind that most Psuedomonas otitis dogs have ruptured eardrums from teh toxins secreted by that bacterium and flushing with anything without making sure of the tympanums integrity could cause permanent cranial nerve damage. Or just blow me off as a money grubbing vet who is obviously trying to rip the OP off.


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## Wolf Flower (Dec 21, 2005)

derm said:


> The constant vet bashing on this forum makes me sick, reallly nearly every thread has some person talking about money grubbing vets just out to take peoples cash. I spend most of my time in the canning forum where people have some decorum but drift over here periodically to see if I can help anyone and feel like an idiot every time. How do the mods, who are veterinary professionals even want to stay over here? Vets make less than all of the other health care professionals except some nurses. Ninety nine point nine percent of Vets care about and have dedicated their lives to the well beaing of animals at a level greater than any poster on here, but I will try to help the original poster and then go away until I calm down.


I haven't noticed a lot of "vet bashing" on this forum, looks like there was one post in this thread that described them as "money grubbers", but I honestly don't get the feeling that's the opinion of the majority here. I suggested getting a second opinion before thinking about surgery, is that bashing?

I've worked with several different veterinarians. Some were absolutely wonderful, some were excellent doctors but had a poor bedside manner, and a couple of them were even "money grubbers". Just like everything else, there are good and bad people everywhere. But as a general rule, if you're a money grubber, you don't go into veterinary medicine!

Derm, if you're a vet, might I suggest you come in here more often and help educate folks? Try to ignore any "bashing" type posts you see, as there's always going to be someone who resents parting with their money and will take it out on the professional. I know Goldenmom is very generous with her help and advice and I don't think she feels "bashed". 

Lord knows how many groomer-bashing posts I've had to endure on other forums, and sometimes it's the best I can do to hold my tongue and retain a professional attitude.


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## GoldenMom (Jan 2, 2005)

Wolf Flower said:


> Derm, if you're a vet, might I suggest you come in here more often and help educate folks? Try to ignore any "bashing" type posts you see, as there's always going to be someone who resents parting with their money and will take it out on the professional. I know Goldenmom is very generous with her help and advice and I don't think she feels "bashed".


Oh every once in while I do feel a little bashed. But by and large it's not by our "regulars" so the majority of posts and posters are very pro-vet. I just ignore the others! If I can help, I'll help, if not, I won't. Oftentimes the knowledgable people here has given as good of an answer as I would before I even get a chance.


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## lamoncha lover (Mar 1, 2009)

I do wish the vets would hang about a little more often. I am thankful for every bit of help and information I find on here. And yes..even the non vets have helped me a lot.
I woud never bash my vet. I chose her carefully, and love her dearly.


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## Wolf Flower (Dec 21, 2005)

My little sister is in vet school right now (Glasgow). And thank God--we need a vet in the family! I'm only a little bit jealous that she stole my life (long story).

Vet school is, in some ways, tougher than Medical school, and I have the utmost respect for those who choose to go into Veterinary medicine.... for the time and expense it takes, they could just as easily go into a field that offers greater income potential. The only reason I can figure is that they love animals. I know my sister does. Ripping people off is not on her agenda. 

And if anyone bashes her I'll tear 'em a new one.


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## Maura (Jun 6, 2004)

Derm, if you were here more often you might find more posts where we recommend the pet be taken to the vet's for a blood panel, antibiotics, and other care.


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## Maura (Jun 6, 2004)

Longhorngal, you never told us what you are feeding this dog. A high quality diet will help the dog rid itself of toxins, and help him fight infections, including this one. When the body is in top condition, it can manage better. I would also recommend Taste of the Wild or similar quality kibble if you do not want to feed raw.


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## Txrider (Jun 25, 2010)

derm said:


> The constant vet bashing on this forum makes me sick, reallly nearly every thread has some person talking about money grubbing vets just out to take peoples cash. I spend most of my time in the canning forum where people have some decorum but drift over here periodically to see if I can help anyone and feel like an idiot every time. How do the mods, who are veterinary professionals even want to stay over here? Vets make less than all of the other health care professionals except some nurses. Ninety nine point nine percent of Vets care about and have dedicated their lives to the well beaing of animals at a level greater than any poster on here, but I will try to help the original poster and then go away until I calm down.
> 
> Psuedomonas, the bacterium that your vet identified is the top end worst, most resistant bacteria that we see in ear infections. In fact outside of MRSA, it is the toughest I see. It is highly resistant to the majority of antibiotics. It also has no problem dissolving the eardrum and hanging out in the middle or inner ear needing surgical drainage to remove. I am very sorry your rescue pup has this, it can be a beast to get rid of. Some times you need culture to make sure it is not resistant to what you are using. Sometimes you need anesthesia with flushing the canal and to make sure it is not a polyp or is in the inner ear. Almost always it takes a long term course of the strongest antibiotics made.
> 
> To the people telling the OP to just start flushing with alcohol, keep in mind that most Psuedomonas otitis dogs have ruptured eardrums from teh toxins secreted by that bacterium and flushing with anything without making sure of the tympanums integrity could cause permanent cranial nerve damage. Or just blow me off as a money grubbing vet who is obviously trying to rip the OP off.


Pretty much exactly what my vet told me about it... My dog came with it from the rescue, along with badly torn up ears from scratching at them and breaking the blood vessels, a GSD with stiff cauliflower ears. And he said that the ear drops the rescue was using and passed on to me that these bacteria would just throw a party in...

I don't remember the name of the rather expensive ear drops, I do remember it had three potent antibiotics in it, and it was pricey, along with oral antibiotics. He may have even given me steroids too I don't recall.

Did the job eventually, he swabbed her ears and looked under a microscope every two weeks until she was clear, and he told me she may have a food allergy that would make more likely to reinfect, and to wash her ears out good with 50/50 water and white vinegar after she was cured up, no alcohol.

My vet has cost a lot of money, but he loves my dog and does a good job..

I don't slam vets, but I've spent more on my dog at the vet in the last twp years than I have on myself at the doctor in the last ten years.. Just makes me wince a bit..


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## longhorngal (Aug 4, 2005)

I feed her Iams Prebiotics. This latest vet did not do a culture on her. In fact none of them have. Just told me it was pseudomonias b/c it smells so badly I guess. Should I not do the second dose of the med that they said to come back for in 2 weeks unless they do a culture first?
Her ear is really smelling again but not a lot of drainage. What doe cranial nerve damage look like? She sleeps ALOT.


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## Maura (Jun 6, 2004)

I can't help you with the ear infection. My standard poodle had ear infections when I got him, but they were the yeast/bacteria variety treated with meds and a good groomer.

Iams does not make a good product. At one time their kibble was considered better, but it has been downgraded to a grocery store product. Better than Pedigree, but not really a good food. I believe Canidae is in the same price range, but is much better. I feed raw, but if I have to feed a dog kibble I use Taste of the Wild.


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## derm (Aug 6, 2009)

longhorngal said:


> I feed her Iams Prebiotics. This latest vet did not do a culture on her. In fact none of them have. Just told me it was pseudomonias b/c it smells so badly I guess. Should I not do the second dose of the med that they said to come back for in 2 weeks unless they do a culture first?
> Her ear is really smelling again but not a lot of drainage. What doe cranial nerve damage look like? She sleeps ALOT.


The culture is not really to determine the type of bacteria in some cases. Pseudomonas has a characteristic smell, like Parvo, that will give you an idea of which one it is. The test is actually called Culture and Sensitivity to determine which antibiotics will be most effective. If you do not see progress at all after a couple weeks, it is a good idea. You might be using a resistant antibiotic.

The cranial nerve in the inner ear controls balance and hearing. Damage to it causes hearing loss as well as nausea, vertigo, head tilt, circling to the affected side and pain.


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## Txrider (Jun 25, 2010)

Maura said:


> I can't help you with the ear infection. My standard poodle had ear infections when I got him, but they were the yeast/bacteria variety treated with meds and a good groomer.
> 
> Iams does not make a good product. At one time their kibble was considered better, but it has been downgraded to a grocery store product. Better than Pedigree, but not really a good food. I believe Canidae is in the same price range, but is much better. I feed raw, but if I have to feed a dog kibble I use Taste of the Wild.


I'll second that Iams is not a good food. You can do a lot better for the price..

Taste of the wild, Wellness, Blue and other are corn/wheat free and a better foods in general.


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## canine14 (Feb 22, 2006)

derm said:


> Pseudomonas has a characteristic smell, like Parvo, that will give you an idea of which one it is.


Is it a sour, vinegary smell? I know that yeasty ears can smell sweet and I know about the ensuing PH imbalance in the ear which is why a slightly acidic cleaner is used. But what if the smell is vinegary to begin with? Though it seems counterintuitive, would a slighly basic solution like baking soda diluted in water be a better cleaner? 

Thanks and any vet who comes on here and freely and wonderfully offers advice is hardly money-grubbing. In fact, most country vets who treat either large or small animals, are decent folks.


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## longhorngal (Aug 4, 2005)

Thanks for the additional replies. Took her back to the vet today as she was to have the second treatment. But, she is no better at all so the vet said there wasn't much use to do it. I asked about a culture and he said they could do one the problem was "there is a lot of stuff that grows in ears" and that they may or may not be able to determine what is actually the problem. BUT that Psuedomonas has a very distinct smell and that's what we are dealing with here. Not sure I understood all that but that's what I was told.

He said the next step is to sedate her and flush the ear canal (if it isn't ruptured) and see if she has polyps or what exactly it looks like in there.

So, she is scheduled for next Tuesday to do that.

In the meantime, I called the previous vet just for the heck of it to see if he had any ideas. The vet tech spoke with him and pulled my record he said to come by and get this new mixture he made up that has among other things boric acid and what else the tech could not tell me. Also, he says she has allergies and needs to come in for monthly shots. OK he NEVER discussed allergies with me at all before and now all of a sudden she has allergies? (I know a lot of you say she has allergies and I discussed that with the vet today and he says no she doesn't. Not saying I'm going with that just still thinking on it)

To say I'm confused is putting it mildly. She doesn't itch or lick her paws or have any type of skin problem. 

If I switch to the Wild Blue now would it do any good before the psuedomonas is cleared up?


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## longhorngal (Aug 4, 2005)

canine 14-it is a disgusting, pervasive smell. Doesn't smell like vinegar, just really, really bad. Also, thin yellow drainage from the ear.


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## Cashs Cowgirl (Jan 26, 2006)

Change her food. It may not change her ear issues, but it will be better for her health. If they didn't do tests for allergies, then they are just making educated guesses that it's not that. Allergies present themselves in many ways. Some dogs hair gets bad, have bald spots, some chew their feet, many itch, some get really nasty gas and loose stools, some have nasty ears. Yours could be ear issues. I like many of the feeds listed, remember that yeast feeds on sugars in the body...sugars found in grains and the like. It could benefit her to go off of feeds with grains. I personally would start a raw diet-that's about as basic as one could get to rule out grain allergies. But many people can't take the whole raw thing so...

I hope you are able to get to the bottom of the issue.


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## HOTW (Jul 3, 2007)

Sounds liek blue powder ear recipe

Boric Acid Powder , Gentian violet, and isopropyl alcohol


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## Maura (Jun 6, 2004)

I would feed her raw, at least for a while. Raw chicken backs, or turkey necks, or ox tails. As soon as she starts eating raw her body will begin detoxing. She may put off a bad smell, but that is the toxins coming out via the skin. She may have one or two very large poops- that is the body emptying the colon completely. This sudden detox and improvement in health is from the better quality food (what is going in), but also because of what is NOT going in. No grains, no soy, no preservatives, so her body doesn't have to process the filler that is in her regular kibble. Because it doesn't have to process new junk, the body can work to get rid of build up. Once the body is able to get rid of toxicity and is given the nutrition it needs, it can deal with ear infections.

If you feed your dog raw for a couple of weeks you will be able to make a determination on a) if it is indeed good for your dog, and b) if you want to feed raw. If you decide to go back on kibble, put her on a HIGH quality food, such as Taste of the Wild, Solid Gold, or similar quality sold in your area.

The less you spend on prevention (nutrition) the more you will spend at the vet.


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## mekasmom (Jan 19, 2010)

After all this time and money, have you simply considered trying a different vet? Honestly, the number one cause of ear infections in dogs is yeast (and it is affected by diet). It's so easy to treat. At least go to a vet who will culture for it.


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## MS Farm Chick (Mar 19, 2011)

Hi, everyone! I'm a long time stalker but this is my first post. I just wanted to know if you have had a Thyroid panel ran on your dog? I had to deal with chronic ear infections in my Golden Retriever for years. Constant trips to the vet to be told she had yeast in her ears. Which she did....but it all ended up starting from her Thyroid. I think Thyroid Disease is common in Standard Poodles also. It's worth a shot.


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## Haven (Aug 16, 2010)

I worked for a Standard Poodle exhibitor for several years, and they battled ear infections, even in their showdogs.

As a groomer/salon owner, I see a very large % of Standards and Standard "oodle" mixes with chronic ear infections.

My Advice:

-Keep the dog on a raw or grain free diet. Grain feeds yeast and allergies.

-Find a groomer with an automatic bathing sytstem and have the ears flushed and rinsed well with the system every few weeks. Once the ear is completely flushed, do not apply any chemical ear cleaners. Leave the ear clean and open to breathe without altering the environment with harsh cleaners.

-Lightly wipe the ear with vinegar at home in between flushings, if you notice odor developing.

-Standards are predisposed to chronic infections in part due to deep canals, long ear leather, and profuse amounts of hair that weighs down the ear leather and restrict airflow into the ear. 

-Keep any dead hair that is EASILY removed lightly plucked and scissor out any remaining hair. Over plucking will aggravate ear issues.

-Keep the -entire- inside of the ear leather shaved short with a 30 blade. Keep the outer hair on the ears shaved short with a 10 blade. Shell out the sides of the skull directly under the ear with 30 blade. This will allow a lot more air flow into the ear. Google "German Clip" for examples of this healthier ear style.

They key here is preventing infections before they start, while maintaining a healthy environment within the ear. I have found the above methods extremely effective. Harsh antibiotics and chemical cleaners will only create a viscious cycle of chronic issues that will continually reoccur...


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