# Tractor overheating



## Evons hubby (Oct 3, 2005)

Ok, this thing has been a nagging problem for me for several years. What am I missing? I have a 1950ish ferguson to35 tractor that overheats, and has been doing this for years! The longer I run it the hotter it gets if pulling a load such as a disc, bushhog, or mowing hay. The heavier the load, the quicker it heats up. So far I have replaced fan, radiator and thermostat. I keep the points in good shape, and set the timing with a light to book specs. The tractor runs great, never any hint of water in the oil, or vice versa... but it gets hot. I can cool it off by revving it up good and tossing a few cups of water through the front of the radiator. It cools right down to midnormal range in just a few seconds. It doesnt leak water anywhere. What the heck am I overlooking?

ETA I have also replaced the water pump recently. The radiator was replaced several years ago... with a new one from the dealer... and that didnt change a thing.


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## agmantoo (May 23, 2003)

Try putting a fan shroud on the tractor. 2/3rds of the fan blade inside the shroud with the remaining 1/3 outside. You will be amazed at how much the improvement will be. If the tractor has been converted to 12 volts you could put an electric fan with shroud on the front side of the radiator.


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## Evons hubby (Oct 3, 2005)

agmantoo said:


> Try putting a fan shroud on the tractor. 2/3rds of the fan blade inside the shroud with the remaining 1/3 outside. You will be amazed at how much the improvement will be. If the tractor has been converted to 12 volts you could put an electric fan with shroud on the front side of the radiator.


It still has the original shroud, the only variation from stock is the fan... I did replace the original with a newer model massey fan, but again, that did not make any difference. I have thought of putting the additional fan on... but it just seems to me like that really shouldnt be required. I have a to30, and it runs cool as a cucumber. I am also not sure if there is enough space to accommodate an elec fan in front of the radiator.


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## agmantoo (May 23, 2003)

You stated you replaced the radiator. Are you certain the replacement radiator matched the specs of the original?


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## foxtrapper (Dec 23, 2003)

You sure the gauge is telling the truth?


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## Evons hubby (Oct 3, 2005)

agmantoo said:


> You stated you replaced the radiator. Are you certain the replacement radiator matched the specs of the original?


One can never be "sure", but I bought it from the massey ferguson dealer... one presumes they are selling original equip specs. The thing is.... it made NO difference at all. I had run a tree limb through the old one and had to replace it. I thought it would also solve this overheating but nope, it was just like before.... the longer I run it or the heavier the load... it just keeps gradually heating up till it goes to boiling. My TO30 will pull the bushog all day long, or a two bottom plow... never a hint of overheating... they have the same engines, same radiators. The 35 will be boiling in 45 minutes pulling the bushhog, 20 minutes on the plow or hay roller. :shrug: This thing has been puzzling me for a long time now, and I am really wanting to find out whats wrong. I am bound to be missing some little thing somewhere and its drivin me nuts! LOL


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## Evons hubby (Oct 3, 2005)

foxtrapper said:


> You sure the gauge is telling the truth?


It appears to be reasonably accurate.. it starts to build pressure just when the gauge is reading in the 210 range.


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## Travis in Louisiana (May 14, 2002)

Have you taken the thermostate out just to see if it runs cooler? You say you rive it up some and it cools off pretty quick. Is the fan belt tight enough? When the tree limb went through the radiator, is there a chance some of the wood particles got in the cooling system and are clogging up some where in the motor? Just thinking out loud here.


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## oneokie (Aug 14, 2009)

Try advancing the timing a few degrees. Had similar problem with a vehicle with new engine. Advanced the timing and the heating problem went away. YMMV


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## tinknal (May 21, 2004)

I was wondering about the thermostat too.


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## Ross (May 9, 2002)

Have you cleaned out the air cleaner? If it's struggling for air it will over heat.


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## Evons hubby (Oct 3, 2005)

Travis in Louisiana said:


> Have you taken the thermostate out just to see if it runs cooler? You say you rive it up some and it cools off pretty quick. Is the fan belt tight enough? When the tree limb went through the radiator, is there a chance some of the wood particles got in the cooling system and are clogging up some where in the motor? Just thinking out loud here.


Yep, I ran it for quite a while without a thermostat at all, the only difference that seemed to make was it wouldnt warm up in the wintertime unless I put a pretty good load on the motor. just running around the farm it ran very cool, but if I tryed to plow, or run the tiller deep.... it would overheat again. I flushed the motor good when I put the new radiator and fan on, and have a couple times since. I am thinking its pretty clean in there as far as wood chips. But hey, keep thinking out loud... thats how problems get solved! it cools off quick if I rev the engine.... while tossing water through the front of the radiator... just pulling air through wont cool it a bit.


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## Evons hubby (Oct 3, 2005)

oneokie said:


> Try advancing the timing a few degrees. Had similar problem with a vehicle with new engine. Advanced the timing and the heating problem went away. YMMV


I will try that... while I have it set to factory book specs... there may be something there not quite right while under load. It does have more than a few hours on it, could be something in the distributor thats worn a little.


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## farmerj (Aug 20, 2011)

sure you don't have a blown head gasket? sounds like an air bubble or gases as well.


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## Evons hubby (Oct 3, 2005)

Ross said:


> Have you cleaned out the air cleaner? If it's struggling for air it will over heat.


Hmmmm, I am pretty sure I cleaned it last spring when I did its oil change, tune up and regular going over... but thats a good point and one I hadnt thought of.. a lean mixture will cause one to heat up, wasnt aware that running rich would do it too. I will check that this evening when I set the timing up a tad. And thanks to all of you for possible ideas.... I know there has to be something not quite right somewhere, and a room full of heads is bound to be better than mine coz I sure havent been able to come up with it.


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## Evons hubby (Oct 3, 2005)

farmerj said:


> sure you don't have a blown head gasket? sounds like an air bubble or gases as well.


Nope, I am not "sure" of anything at this point. However the compression is good, and its even across all four cylinders and shows none of the other signs normally associated with a blown head gasket. no water in the oil, no oil in the water, no water loss unless I let it get too hot and boil some out the radiator. That being said I am going to try the timing thing, and check that air cleaner... and anything else you guys come up with, and if it doesnt work, I am going to have to tear it down and see whats going on inside. It could be a cracked head, or blown gasket letting exhaust gas into the cooling system, but it would have to be in just the "perfect" place somewhere, and very tiny to do that without it getting water back into the engine.


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## farmerj (Aug 20, 2011)

http://www.tegger.com/hondafaq/overheating/index.html

Some other help

Another option is a bad impeller on the water pump. Just no water flow.


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## k9 (Feb 6, 2008)

Is this a gas tractor? I believe it is, when you work it and it gets hot, shut it off and pull a spark plug and see if the engine is running lean. If the carb is set too lean under a load it will run hot. Just a thought.


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## agmantoo (May 23, 2003)

Does your lower radiator hose have the design where there is a spring like coil inside the hose? During a loaded condition when you cannot observe what is happening with the hose it is possible that hose is sucking shut.


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## Sawmill Jim (Dec 5, 2008)

Has anyone switch the drive pulley on the fan thus slowing down the air flow:shrug: Also could the belt be slipping just a tad .


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## oneokie (Aug 14, 2009)

Yvonne's hubby said:


> I will try that... while I have it set to factory book specs... there may be something there not quite right while under load. It does have more than a few hours on it, could be something in the distributor thats worn a little.


Pull the distributor cap and see if you can move the rotor against spring tension. The mechanical advance could be frozen due to rust or crud. If it is not working correctly, that will have the same effect as having the timing too slow.


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## Madsaw (Feb 26, 2008)

Try this once. With the tractor off how hard is it to turn the fan blade? Does it slip pretty easy even though you have tightend it real good? If so you have a worn crank pulley. Try some belt dressing on it to see if it sticks to the pulley better. Also does it have a charing issue? What clues me into thinking this maybe the issue is how fast it cools down.
Bob


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## Elevenpoint (Nov 17, 2009)

I put a new radiator and water pump in my 8N this past weekend and bushogged about 3 hours with it....no problems with cooling. I would say no to carb., I know mine is out of wack a bit and needs an overhaul, I have the timing set by ear.....it runs and cools top notch though. I think the cooling system is over engineered....if I put my hand up to the radiator it will pull my palm flat against it.


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## foxtrapper (Dec 23, 2003)

Well, generally speaking, your cooling system should be able to keep up with the tractor. 

The cooling system has two steps to working. One is getting the heat out of the engine and over to the radiator. The other is to get it out of the radiator and into the air. With this knowledge, one can often diagnose where the problem lies.

So how can we tell if the water is actually moving through the system? Well, on a tractor like yours, that's easy. You remove the radiator cap and look in. Best to remove the cap with the engine cold by the way, and let it warm up. Then, rev the engine up to PTO speed, leave it there, and look in the top of the radiator. Water should be moving *fast* through the radiator. If it's not, one needs to find out why. Collapsing lower radiator hose is a possibility, plugged up radiator is another (which can collapse the lower radiator hose). A slipping fan belt not spinning the water pump well. A worn out waterpump impeller (they can wear out or break internally). 

If the water is moving well, we move on to heat transfer to the air. Touch the top and bottom radiator hoses with the engine warmed up and reved up. The top hose should be appreciably hotter than the lower hose. This would indicate heat transfer to the air has taken place. The air from the radiator should feel quite hot, and with a tractor, there should be a whole lot of it blowing. So what are we looking for here if we think we've found a problem? Chaff in the radiator will block air flow through the radiator. A slipping fan belt will cause the fan not to pull the air well. Slipping belts can be sneaky! Missing shrouds, or wrong fans or improperly located radiators cause the fan not to pull the air through the radiator (they may still move a lot of air, just not through the radiator). Sludge on the inside of the radiator tubes can insulate them, preventing the water from transferring heat to the air. Lots of thick goey paint on the radiator can do this as well (cheap rebuilds and imports can come with this).


Chaff in the radiator is a common source of overheating. It blocks the air flow, which blocks heat transfer. Make sure


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## Travis in Louisiana (May 14, 2002)

I am going to BUMP this up as I am curious to see what the problem is.


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## raymilosh (Jan 12, 2005)

I wonder if the main jet in the carb is partially clogged with crud, causing it to run lean.


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## Evons hubby (Oct 3, 2005)

Ok, heres the update on things so far. I have flushed the radiator and have plenty of water flow. It will take all the water I can put in through a garden hose with the lower hose disconnected, I have advanced the timing a few degrees, and checked the advance unit... its all working properly and smoothly. The fan belt is tight, no slippage there, I can turn the engine over with the fan. There is some chaff visible in some spots in the front of the radiator and there are some of the fins that have been closed off by weeds and sticks hitting it through the grill. I am estimating less than 5 percent air loss through the radiator caused by chaff and fin damage. Have checked the carb settings and they seem to be fine. It starts easy, and runs strong, but I have not had chance to take the carb apart and check the jets. Its still getting hot under load just like before. This thing is a head scratcher fer sure.


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## Travis in Louisiana (May 14, 2002)

Thanks for the reply. This is an interesting one to watch. I would almost say, take the radiator and water pump, one at a time and swap with the other tractor if possible, to see if that tractor gets hot. So, Radiator flow is good, flow through engine is good, you say the pump is new, I just wonder if pump is O.K., but I have read the other post, so it does seem to be working properly. :hair


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## Old Swampgirl (Sep 28, 2008)

I do not have the same kind of tractor as Yvonne's hubby, but have had the same problem with one of my tractors. I just have to stop & clean off the radiator with a brush & then a hose & let it cool down. From a blog about my tractor I learned that the small radiator that it came with could be replaced with a larger one & that this would solve the problem. Have not yet done that, but just might someday. Try finding a blog about problems with that model tractor & this might help you.


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## unioncreek (Jun 18, 2002)

Are you sure the radiator cap is sealing correctly? We had a JD the was new and it would heat up real quick when you worked it hard. The dealer was out half a dozen times and wouldn't figure it out. The last time they sent a mechanic out he was an older guy about 60. The first thing he did was take the radiator cap off and look at it and the radiator. Right away he said the flange on the radiator is bent down and the cap was not sealing. He straightened it out and the tractor never got hot again.


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## greengrow (Jul 3, 2011)

Is the cap on the radiator working?

If there is not pressure in the system it ill not work properly, I have had this issue a few times ith different engines. It can be very difficult to tell some times.


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## davel745 (Feb 2, 2009)

Do a cylinder leakage test. It will tell you if the system is leaking. IE blown head gasket.
Not hard to do.


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## JeffreyD (Dec 27, 2006)

greengrow said:


> Is the cap on the radiator working?
> 
> If there is not pressure in the system it ill not work properly, I have had this issue a few times ith different engines. It can be very difficult to tell some times.


This! See if you can beg, borrow, steal, a cooling system pressure tester. It will allow you to pump the system up to operating pressure and you watch the guage for a bit. If the pressure goes down some, there is an air leak. Your system may not leak coolant, but an air leak will bleed off pressure, causing the boiling point to be lower than it should. Often times it will be the cap. You can also try a cap with a higher psi to raise the boiling point a little more. Also try another guage to see if they both read the same.


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## davel745 (Feb 2, 2009)

Yvonne's hubby

How did you make out with your problem?


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## davel745 (Feb 2, 2009)

did you ever get the tractor repaired?


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## Evons hubby (Oct 3, 2005)

Nope, I am still running it like it is. I have just about decided it a cracked head causing the problem but have had to keep it running daily to feed the cows this winter. (handling the big rolls of hay) Now that the grass is coming in I am going to pull it down and see what I can find. Thats on my list of top priorities now that I wont need it for a month or so.


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## davel745 (Feb 2, 2009)

Sorry to hear that I was hopeing it was something simple. A feriend has a simular problem and i too think it may be a cracked head or blown head gasket.

Thanks for replying.

Dave


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## Evons hubby (Oct 3, 2005)

davel745 said:


> Sorry to hear that I was hopeing it was something simple. A feriend has a simular problem and i too think it may be a cracked head or blown head gasket.
> 
> Thanks for replying.
> 
> Dave


I will let ya know as soon as I get it apart and have the head magged. Its about the only thing I can think of left. I have replaced the other cooling system components, as well as dealin with the timing and carb. It runs like a top, and its been this way for years. Pretty sure a head gasket would have blown itself on out a long time ago. I have a to30 for backup, cept for moving the hay so I can tear the 35 down now and maybe solve this thing once and for all.


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## bikehealer1 (Oct 8, 2009)

I've seen hairline cracks on heads cause overheating, yet never a drop of oil or water in the wrong place. Ive also seen water pumps with the wrong pitch on the blades not move the water fast enough or too fast for heat transfer. 

I will definitely be keeping an eye on this thread.


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## alleyyooper (Apr 22, 2005)

I didn't see where you had replaced the hoses?
I have seen and heard about the hoses sucking nearly fully closed shuting off water flow.

 Al


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## farminghandyman (Mar 4, 2005)

I was going to suggest the hoses as well, if they have not been replaced or inspected,
either collapsing or coming apart and blocking the flow of water, 

most likely the bottom hose would have a spring like wire in it, 

the other is you said you replaced the fan, OEM fan? or a fan with higher capacity, of air movement,


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## Evons hubby (Oct 3, 2005)

Ok, an update here. The other day I ran a pressure test on the cooling system and got no leakdown... it held 15 pounds pressure for 30 minutes. I also did a "sniffer" test and there was no exhaust coming through the water. These results prompted me to take the radiator off the thing and have it checked. According to the guy at the radiator shop the flow was way down from specs. I may have fallen victim to my own thinking on this. I just put a new radiator on this tractor so it couldnt possibly be the problem. The guy at the radiator shop asked me when that was... after thinking back, I realized that was 15 years ago! He just looked at me and grinned.... "well its full of rust and crud now". I had him boil out the old one, and the flow test came way up, but still not to factory specs so I opted for a new one. As soon as the ground dries up around here I will be giving it a field test and know if we solved this thing or not.


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## Evons hubby (Oct 3, 2005)

farminghandyman said:


> I was going to suggest the hoses as well, if they have not been replaced or inspected,
> either collapsing or coming apart and blocking the flow of water,
> 
> most likely the bottom hose would have a spring like wire in it,
> ...


I replaced the original four blade fan with a 6 blade designed for the "50" series when I replaced the radiator the first time. Its supposed to pull more air.


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## Evons hubby (Oct 3, 2005)

alleyyooper said:


> I didn't see where you had replaced the hoses?
> I have seen and heard about the hoses sucking nearly fully closed shuting off water flow.
> 
> Al


I put new hoses on with the first radiator replacement, and have replaced them couple of times since that time. I put new hoses and fan belt on last summer again when I had it apart putting a clutch in it. It also got a new water pump at that point.


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## HermitJohn (May 10, 2002)

Yvonne's hubby said:


> ... after thinking back, I realized that was 15 years ago!


Time flies when you get old. Been the victim of time passing more and more often. And find parts no longer available or they cost more than I paid for the whole machine originally... even though they are made in Timbuctu now.

Glad you found your problem, make sure engine is VERY WELL FLUSHED, before installing new radiator. Old engines tend to collect lot garbage in cooling passages.


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## davel745 (Feb 2, 2009)

I am glad to hear that you may have fixed the problem. Let us know how it does when working hard. And I am glad you don&#8217;t need to do a top end tare down. A lot of cheaper than head work. 

Best regards,

Dave


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## Evons hubby (Oct 3, 2005)

davel745 said:


> I am glad to hear that you may have fixed the problem. Let us know how it does when working hard. And I am glad you donât need to do a top end tare down. A lot of cheaper than head work.
> 
> Best regards,
> 
> Dave


Havent had a chance to put it to work yet, but its running a lot cooler now on the light work. Hope to get some plowing done tomorrow before the rains hit.... that should tell the story.


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## Evons hubby (Oct 3, 2005)

Ok... I just spent most of the day working "with" the lil bugger instead of working "on" it. I was not doing really heavy work... but pulling the disc is a pretty good work load. I feel pretty good about the new radiator now..... it came up to operating temp and held fast to that temp... 195 which is what the thermostat is. If it does this good when I hook it up to the hay roller in the summer heat... I will call it fixed!


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## Travis in Louisiana (May 14, 2002)

Glad to hear it is fixed! and thanks for the update.


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## davel745 (Feb 2, 2009)

Thanks from me too. I have told my friend to take his radiator to a radiator guy and see what he says


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## pipedreamer (Jan 23, 2012)

.Don't assume that a new part (thermostat) is in working order I've bought defective ones before ,for the price try another t stat save the box it came in for return .


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