# Making gas engines more efficient



## TroutRiver (Nov 26, 2010)

So I think part of this is jealousy over the fact that my boyfriend just had his 2006 diesel Jeep Liberty converted to run on vegetable oil... but I have been thinking a lot lately about how I can improve the efficiency of my 1997 Jetta. I have read up about HHO systems, the conclusion that I've reached is that they are about 75% BS and 25% possibly pretty cool. A few people have done it "for real" with good success (not draining as much energy from the battery as what it's putting out in hydrogen), but it takes a lot more tinkering and customizing than just buying a kit and installing it, like some people claim. 

Anyone have any thoughts on this, or tricks or ideas to increase efficiency of gas engines? I am getting about 32 MPG right now, which is good, but I know it could be better. I saw a gorgeous diesel Jetta parked on the side of the road today, basically the same car that I have but with a diesel engine and in better condition. I wish I had a diesel engine in my car, I love the idea of running on WVO... but alas... maybe someday.


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## Ky-Jeeper (Sep 5, 2010)

I have a friend that has started using his non-kit hho. It did make a lot of gas. Pulling 49 amps and boiling half his water out on a 12 mile trip to work had start tweeking it. I wasn't going to post anything till he gets it under control. BTW his gas hand didn't move that day.

Since are engines alternator has a certain amount of dc power that goes unused finding it is key. I will update next week sometime, and I know I'm building one soon.


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## TroutRiver (Nov 26, 2010)

Please post about it when you have more information! I am very interested in learning more about HHO systems that actually work, I've seen a lot that don't, but I know there are some that do!


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## MichaelK! (Oct 22, 2010)

They're 99.9% BS and .1% cool. You are just going to waste your money.

It's all about the emotional "good feeling" you'll get about doing something to save gas. You won't save any gas at all, but at least you'll have something to talk about at parties. At least until someone actually asks to see some numbers.

How you can really save gas is by slowing down and driving the speed limit. Drive with your cruise control on so you compete less with other drivers. Plan ahead so you can get all your driving trips done in a single session. A warmed engine the goes for 30 miles at a time uses less gas than two 15 mile trips.

Finally, drive a stick-shift. The automatic transmission is one of the greatest inventions ever for wasting gas!

Diesel is also the best alternative to gas. Diesel engines are inherently more efficient than gas engines and your mileage will automaticly go up. And, there's also the posibility of either running on biodiesel or on a WVO conversion kit.


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## Ky-Jeeper (Sep 5, 2010)

I personally seen hydrogen being made and ignited. I not here to sell anything. People here in this forum usually tries to help each other. 

This is not rocket sience. So real world experiences can be shared here.


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## ace admirer (Oct 5, 2005)

it takes more gasoline energy to run the generator to make the electricity to form the gases than is gained by burning the gases.


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## Ky-Jeeper (Sep 5, 2010)

ace admirer said:


> it takes more gasoline energy to run the generator to make the electricity to form the gases than is gained by burning the gases.


Your correct, my friend has done this at home to get an understanding of how this works.

On the other hand as stated in an earlier post a vechicles alternator has a certain amount of unused dc power. Finding that will be key, and will dictate how many amps can be used to generate given amount of gas.

I will not debate this no more. I'll just post my findings.


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## ace admirer (Oct 5, 2005)

I don't think a modern alternator (alternating current, three phase converted to dc with a heat sinked trio diode pack) produces more current than is needed by the auto's system, thats what the voltage regulators do, regulate the output voltage, therefore power output of the alternator. 


the way to go would then to have a gasoline generator with an lp carburetor running itself off of electrolysis made hydrogen..........have you ever seen one?


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## ace admirer (Oct 5, 2005)

double post, key studder


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## RebelCowboySnB (Apr 1, 2011)

There are several ways to make a gas engine more efficient. Actual implementation is hard to do though.
14.7 to 1 fuel air ratio is always quoted as perfect. But what does that mean? It does not mean the most miles per gallon as many think. You can actually get more power an miles per gallon by running the engine way leaner than that but your emissions go threw the roof, backfiring starts happening an you raise your chances of burning valves. It can be done though if you know what your doing.

Its also known that vapor fuels are more efficacy. We use gas in the liquid form cause its easy. Its possible to boil gas off an run the fumes in to a vapor fuel carburetor an get better mileage. There's just the small issue of not blowing your self up.

I played with a hydrogen generator for a while. Easy way to blow your self up too. I may get back to tinkering with all this one day but now I am working on using waste motor oil as the fuel for my 6.2 diesel.


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## cmcon=7 (Mar 7, 2010)

In the 60's some street racers would hook their alternator field to a vacuum switch to free up an extra 3-5 hp during acceleration, you could hook it to your brake lights to turn on the alternator only during braking, you would also want an over-ride switch for night and freeway driving. driving habits have a lot to do with it too.


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## artificer (Feb 26, 2007)

I wish this topic would die a quick and painful death, here and across the internet.

Just some sample assumed numbers:
alternator efficiency 65%
Engine efficiency 25%
electrolysis efficiency 95%

So... if you want 1 unit of energy from the engine by burning the HHO, you need 1energy unit / (65% x 25% x 95%) or 6.5 energy units.

If you're using an alternator, you will probably max out at 50 amps. 50amps x 13.4v = 670watts. Thats under 1hp. Burning the HHO from that amount of power will only get you 103watts.

I like this article from Popular Mechanics. One of the main HHO sites: hydrogen-boost.com says the energy doesn't come from burning the gas, its from enabling the engine to run when you disable the emissions controls and burn very lean.

There is some POSSIBLE ever so slight chance the HHO will improve combustion, but you can't detect it.

Tinfoil hat people aside, why aren't the car companies using it if its such a great deal? Everyone is pushing mpg's these days. Oh, I forgot... they are in bed with Big Oil, and there real goal isn't to sell the best cars... :hrm:

As for "unused alternator power", every bit of alternator power comes from the engine. The more you draw electrically, the worse your mileage will be. Like cmcon=7 said, and you can find at ecomodder.com, cut the alternator, and gain mpg, until your battery dies.

Michael


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## RebelCowboySnB (Apr 1, 2011)

One of the best ways to get more MPG is to upgrade the cam. Look at your tack an see what RPM range your engine stays in most of the time then buy an install a cam made for that RPM range. You will lose your smooth idle but gain power an MPG.


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## MichaelK! (Oct 22, 2010)

Ky-Jeeper said:


> On the other hand as stated in an earlier post a vechicles alternator has a certain amount of unused dc power. Finding that will be key, and will dictate how many amps can be used to generate given amount of gas.


This is a good example of how some people just do not understand what is going on under the hood of their car, and come up with silly unworkable ideas that violate the laws of physics.

Ace Admirer is totally correct. There is NO unused DC power because the voltage regulator controls the amount of load the alternator has. As electrical demands increase, such as turning on the headlights, the load applied to the alternator increases, which subsequently increases the load of the engine itself, increasing gasoline consumption.

People just have to understand that there is no free lunch and you don't get what you don't pay for. What this is really about is people clinging to the idea that we can maintain our extravagant, energy rich lifestyle. I just have to tell you face to face, it just ain't gonna happen!


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## Ky-Jeeper (Sep 5, 2010)

Talked with my coworker which is an industrial electrician. He confirms no free power on the alternator. Not a total set back....


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## Parttimefarmer (May 5, 2011)

Air filter and tire pressure.

The "older" TDI Jettas value is so high it's almost not worth buying one. That being said, we have an '03 stick tdi and get 47mpg average. If you can find one for a good price, buy it. It will last you longer than a gas engine anyway, no matter how much you tweak it.


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