# Inverters



## scottsdream (May 14, 2013)

Wondering the best way to power essential appliances in house without having to use an outside generator (noise maker)? I own a Solar Generator with 600 Continuous Watts and a peak of 1,800 watts. Do own a Battery Charger too. Was looking at a 3500 and 6000 Watt Inverter, but research says you cannot have acid batteries in house. Do know you can power from the vehicle, but how long can I run it? How safe is it to run a car without the noise bringing people to my residence? If SHTF, I think silence would be better than noise. Am not fortunate, currently,to go to a bug out place, but even then silence would be preferred. I would like to run a 17 Cu.ft Freezer, a refrigerator (same size) and a mini-refrigerator. I can run the mini-refrigerator with the solar generator. I do know that running the freezer and refrigerator cannot be continuous, but an off and on thing. Do have plans in the future to resolve this issue, but cannot put it in place for awhile yet. Any advice from the experts out there? Thank you for your assistance.


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## Harry Chickpea (Dec 19, 2008)

The amount of usable energy stored in a car sized lead-acid battery is well less than what is in a cup of gasoline. A vehicle alternator has a free overhead of only a couple hundred watts. Continuous running will burn it out. What you have is a toy, compared to what is required.


When one of the hurricanes came through south Florida and took out the power for a couple weeks, I used this setup:
SIX (6) big golf cart batteries
A 2,000 watt Trace inverter/charger connected to the batteries with double aught copper welding cable.
A 5,000 watt Coleman generator
10 gallons +- of gasoline
A 70 watt solar panel and charge controller.

By the end of the two week period, I had seriously diminished the life of the batteries, to the point I dumped two of them and replaced the other for for use van camping.

I ran our refrigerator 24/7, used the generator to recharge and power the clothes washer or room AC or tv or a small electric chainsaw. 

During the daylight hours with the generator off, the solar cells were trickle charging the batteries and taking some of the peak load. At night, we used 12 volt fans for personal cooling and solar walkway lights for light inside.

We were fine and comfortable and avoided all the gasoline lines, grocery problems, and punctured tires that everyone else was getting. We could have continued another couple of weeks like that, but by then the batteries would have been complete toast.


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## Gray Wolf (Jan 25, 2013)

We live completely off-grid. I suggest that you go to a site like Backwoods Solar and learn more about what you are trying to do. (We've gotten some of our stuff there.) There is a big gap between what you plan and what you need.

We power our house and live a conserving lifestyle, which seems to be what you are planning to do if you have to. Practice now to see what you can do to conserve power. Then go ahead and live that lifestyle. Cheaper and better anyway.

We have a system that might be close to what you will need. Eight 235 watt panels through a MPPT controller into sixteen 6-volt batteries wired at 24 volts feeding a 2,400 watt inverter that feeds the house 110 volt wiring. We also have three backup generators. 

If interested, the Web site for our house is: offgrid150.simpl.com

Good luck,

Don


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## Jim-mi (May 15, 2002)

Who ever said you couldn't have lead acid batteries in the house is blowing smoke up your butt.

Face it . . . what you have is just a toy. That 1800 watts is for starting inrush of a small motor....
What you have might run a very small fridg a very few lights and your laptop.....

I am really sorry that those guys who sell what you have totally misrepresent their "product" . . . .It is a step in the right direction . . .But it is way too small to do what you want.

Don't even think about car batteries.

The newer breed of inverter/generators are very quiet.

It is the cheapy generators that are the screamers.


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## Gray Wolf (Jan 25, 2013)

Lead acid batteries should be in a box designed to contain and vent hydrogen gas to the outdoors. Not a problem.

About all one or two car batteries will do is power some lights (hopefully cfl or led) and recharge phones and computers. TV, refrig, freezer, coffee maker, toaster, furnace etc will need more/bigger/better batteries to avoid drawing the bank down too far and damaging it. House, AC and heat pump would need a bank approaching "huge" so alternatives need to be worked out.

There will be days/weeks where there will not be enough sunshine to fully recharge the bank. Partial recharge shortens the battery life. You'll need generator(s).

Quiet is going to be a problem for urban SHTF people. Inverter generators are pretty quiet but.... Slow-speed water cooled generators are much quieter than the cheap big-box-store ones that you can hear for blocks. Search around for sound dampening enclosures that still allow plenty of cooling air. Tricky to put a generator in a box but I've seen some that help a lot and still allow cooling. We are WAY out in the country, but, if I was in town, I'd get the quietest inverter generator I could find and only run it in the daytime when there is some background noise going on. But then comes the tricky part that I've never figured out - how do you hide the panels?


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## Harry Chickpea (Dec 19, 2008)

"But then comes the tricky part that I've never figured out - how do you hide the panels?" Mansard roof.


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## scottsdream (May 14, 2013)

I want to thank Gray Wolf, Jim-mi, and Harry Chickpea for your honest and frank replies. I prefer an upfront answer. Mr. Gray Wolf, I wish to God I was out in the country like you, but Lord knows I am stuck out here in urban land. I am a dedicated US Army soldier and have a bit more time until I retire. Trying to plan the best way I can for my family and I. I am supposed to PCS (move) to the South next summer. Hoping to God that we get the heck out of the NE and get settled in the country before time runs out. I am going to look at your set up with plans to go your route. Thank you gentlemen. Lord bless.


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## Jim-mi (May 15, 2002)

Some thing to do a bit of thinking on.

All generators are NOT created equal. . . .by a long shot. . . .Retailers make huge bucks on the cheapy generators because of Joe Public's attitude of "Why should I pay $1200 when I can get this one for $250."
Those cheapy gens have very poor voltage regulation. I knew a guy who smoked a circuit board on his $3000 Xantrex inverter . .not once but twice. . . .$500 each time to repair the inverter.. . . . . .caused I am sure by his cheapy screaming Coleman 5000 watt gens.
And yes these were the classic huge noise makers that you don't want . . . .can't blame you.

The newer breed of inverter generators you can stand within 5 feet of them and have a normal conversation------with out raising your voice ---to shout over the gen.
The voltage control is far superior in these units . . . .running any electronics is NO problem
Yamaha (best) and Honda have 1000, 2000, 3000 watt and larger generators that will out last by far that cheap crap.

So in your dreaming / thinking ahead, go find some place where you can observe one of these modern day units .. . . . . . . . . That just might help you change your idea that all gen's are nasty.

Luck too ya............


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## Harry Chickpea (Dec 19, 2008)

Totally agree with Jim-mi on that. Had to replace the diode set on my Coleman, and a couple years later found it trashing a voltage regulator. I think I speak for all of us when I say that we appreciate your thanks, but with the understanding that we are candid from experience and a desire to help others not make our errors.


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## biggkidd (Aug 16, 2012)

I just got one of the Honda EU2000 They are telling the truth about the noise level. I will also add it just sips gas. What lasted 10 hours + - in a cheap gen last roughly 40 hours in the Honda. Of course it is a much smaller unit. It does handle amazing loads though. I ran my two cyl 30 gallon air compressor off it the other day still had power to spare. :rock: BTW the yamaha is about $10.00 cheaper never had any dealings with one though, have worked on a few Honda's and was more comfortable with them.

Larry


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## ablesolutions (Sep 1, 2011)

Wattage Estimation Guide for Portable Generators by American Honda Motor Company
http://readhere.co/wp/portable-generator-wattage 
Here is a handy portable generator wattage estimation guide for household appliances, recreation appliances, construction appliances, and farm equipment. Handy for estimating the size (in watts) of a portable generator needed to power your appliances. Includes the starting watts and running watts for each appliance. I sized 8 generators with it, for myself, relatives, and neighbors, and so far I have found it to be helpful.


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## ablesolutions (Sep 1, 2011)

For eight days after Hurricane Sandy, I used two 51 amp hour, 1800 watt solar powered generators, to preserve our food in the kitchen refrigerator and the other in the full size freezer. Setting the maximum temperature of the refrigerator to 38 deg F, and the maximum temperature in the freezer to 8 deg F. Power was applied to both of these appliances for 20 minutes every two hours. The solar panels were connected to each solar powered generator during daylight hours, and used one solar powered generator for the refrigerator and the other for the freezer. Rationing the power from the solar powered generators using 20 minutes of power every two hours kept our food preserved.


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## TnAndy (Sep 15, 2005)

What did you pay for the two generators ?

And do you know what size solar panel is on each ?


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