# blue/broken New Zealands



## wofarm (Nov 30, 2009)

Just wondering if anyone else is working on these varieties? I have been breeding otter Mini Rex for some years and just sold them out to begin working on these NZ varieties. The blues derived from a red over white breeding and the brokens derived from a white over white with some black in the pedigree a few gens back; must be the whites were covering brokens and blues?


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## SquashNut (Sep 25, 2005)

They have to be crossed with some thing to allow the broken gene to show. From what i understand they cross in Satins for this purpose.
i really have chosen to keep my lines pure bred and so i only buy from breeders who do the same. i bet they are pretty though.


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## Guest (Nov 30, 2009)

Actually, the broken blacks were originally bred with Satins. However, they weren't getting the "type" right, so instead they were bred with Rex. Black NZ to broken black Rex. Those crosses were continually line bred so that the rex genes are way, way back in generations and they are true New Zealands. 

http://opnzrba.ca/articles/01_12_2008.html

I'll take a broken blue when those become available!


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## SquashNut (Sep 25, 2005)

"Although neither the Brokens or Blues are approved by the ARBA yet; it appears both varieties are well on their way. It's not uncommon now to find Broken New Zealands in the barn along with the Red, Black and Whites! You might even find a Blue one in my barn in the not too distance future."

When ARBA accepts them then I might give them a second look. My rabbitry is small enough I pretty much need to stick to pure breds.


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## Lazy J (Jan 2, 2008)

The Brokens Passed their showing at the ARBA Convention earlier this month, so they will be part of the standard starting late this winter.

http://www.newzealandrabbitclub.net/Broken.htm


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## moonkitten (Mar 4, 2005)

Sadly, the blue NZ failed their second showing, so it will be some time yet before that variety is accepted by ARBA.

While I do commend you for wanting to work on the blues and brokens, there should be some very good stock already out there. You would probably do best to start with some of that rather than re-inventing the wheel.

I'd offer you some (I have both blues and brokens) but I'm way up in Canada


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## wofarm (Nov 30, 2009)

These are from over 5 generations of NZ breeding, in brokens and more than that with the blue. The blue resulted from a red over white breeding, white was covering blue it seems. I have talked to Dave Mangione who showed the brokens at the National. I was considering using the Satins but felt the hair /fur would be a problem and as I had Rex thought they may be better, he concurred and told me his problems. 

I enjoy working on something challenging, have done so for many years with poultry and other species. + I cant spend 300 bucks per rabbit! Priced any good ones? These ******** I am starting with have pretty good type so 1/2 the battle is done. I will work on a balanced broken pattern, just random spots wont cut it for me. The blue color is good on the points but there is some banding which I hope to clean up to make a more nicely blue color. At least any culls are marketable with these rabbits, my main reason for offing the mini Rex.


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## moonkitten (Mar 4, 2005)

wofarm said:


> + I cant spend 300 bucks per rabbit!


Wow, you are getting quoted $300 for a blue NZ? I'm waaaaay undercharging :Bawling: My blues are pretty much the cheapest rabbits in the barn since they aren't an accepted colour and can't be shown.

You do have to really watch the shade of blue that you are working with. I've seen a lot of variety ranging from dark gray to lilac. The working standard calls for a rich deep blue, even over the body and deep into the hair shaft, with blue-grey eyes. Cull hard, check for white toenails and stray hairs especially in the arm pit and you should do ok.


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## wofarm (Nov 30, 2009)

the $300 was for a broken, at a Medina, Ohio show; Dave mangione; I wasnt there but another breeder saw them and told me. I never priced one from Dave, just inquired as to his breeding experiences.. All blues stress the same color, I have worked with other blues in Rex and Mini Rex. Have worked with the Andalusian blue in poultry also. I am probably better versed in poultry genetics than I am rabbits, so far, but I intend to acquire better understanding of rabbit genetics as I progress with study and practical experiences. Its the fun part for me. I actually may have too many irons in the fire all ready!


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## moonkitten (Mar 4, 2005)

wofarm said:


> I am probably better versed in poultry genetics than I am rabbits, so far, but I intend to acquire better understanding of rabbit genetics as I progress with study and practical experiences. Its the fun part for me. I actually may have too many irons in the fire all ready!


My very favourite colour reference guide is the book Rabbit Coat Colour Genetics by Glenna Huffman. It has more than you ever wanted to know about rabbit coats. 

Here's some fun facts to get you started. Red New Zealands are Agouti (note the lighter belly, underside of the tail and eye rings). Blue and Blacks are Self (aa). So if you got a blue from a red, your reds must be (Aa) to pass on that self gene. Reds also carry rufus modifiers, so I'd be surprised if your first few blue generations didn't have some rufus tinting in the coat that you'll want to get rid of. My red-blue crosses always do, but since they're just for meat, it's not a problem.

I'm not sure how you got a broken out of a white-white cross since a red eyed white NZ is (cc) which means they always pass on a (c) to their offspring resulting in only white kits. One of your whites might have been a charlie (broken with so much white that they appeared white). I can't imagine how else you would get colour from a white-white cross. Do you still have the original pair of whites?


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## wofarm (Nov 30, 2009)

How did you get your 1st blues? 

I picked these does up from a commercial breeder who breeds pretty much NZ stock as well as Californians; however, he does cross in some other stock at times. There is a lot of experimenting with the Flemish influence.Its my understanding that the P stock of the blue doe was white on the maternal side as far back as he knows, 5-6 gens. The paternal line is from a red breeder who runs a show herd. The broken doe does have black NZ in the line; I have speculated that its possible for a Checkered Giant to have influenced the gene pool? The breeder did buy his blacks from a show herd.or possibly a Flemish? Most of the commercial breeders around here, Amish included, do not keep pedigrees but normally buy replacement males from show herds. They do keep production records as a rule.

I cant figure some genetic webs out, same thing with the poultry genetics. All things just dont work as ordered, I do know that. I have seen the P stock of both the blue and the broken, also seen the breeding records. I am going back to see him and try to get a better understanding of their history. The broken doe does have shoulders a bit long and low BUT both her sire and dam are quite typey. There were other brokens in the litter also, 3 I think, but they carried noticably low and long shoulders as well as a bit narrow. With the broken gene, comes the shoulder problems. AShoulders are an easy to fix trait so I am encouraged that in 2-3 gens I will have some showable young rabbits. 

Yes, the blue doe does have a very slight rust at the tip of the hair shaft, some others in her litter were more afflicted than her. She has reared a couple litters befor I acquired her, both sire by a Cal buck resulting in blues which had very nicely blue points yet still ruddyness in the body color, also she made some blacks and of course Cal babies. The brokens resulting from the breding of white to white have no other litter mates from other matings which are not white, this was the only litter, he has no other broken stock nor has he in many years.


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## moonkitten (Mar 4, 2005)

It's my understanding that the blue NZ was an accepted ARBA variety that was dropped due to lack of exhibitors at Conventions. It's been an accepted variety in the Canadian standard DR&CBA for quite a while and there was a very long-time NZ breeder up here who specialized in blacks and blues. When she got out of rabbits, I got some of her blue stock. The colour was good, but the body didn't compete well against the bigger US breeders, so I've imported some blacks from NY and crossed them to get the dilute gene into those lines.

I do know that there is a red breeder in the US who has used Lilacs (the breed) on his red lines which introduced the dilute gene. That dilute gene has become the bane of my red breedings but it could certainly have helped your blues get started.


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## SquashNut (Sep 25, 2005)

what color of eyes do these have?


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## moonkitten (Mar 4, 2005)

SquashNut said:


> what color of eyes do these have?


The working standard for blues says the eyes should be blue-grey.

Brokens will only be accepted in Black and Red since they are the current ARBA varieties, so their eyes should be whatever is required for that particular base colour.


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