# water retention--causes, treatments?



## flutemandolin (Aug 13, 2003)

I'm wondering if anyone has any information on edema (water retention). My face and fingers feel puffy a lot, I haven't been able to wear my wedding ring in over a year, my socks leave marks around my ankles, and some days a pair of jeans will fit fine in the morning but by afternoon the waistband is really digging in. I am 5'7 and 185; I've gained about 40 pounds over the last few years and I'm trying to lose it without much luck. I avoid sugars and highly processed foods and try to eat organic whenever possible. I suspect a lot of the weight might be excess water.

I was at the doctor's a few months ago and blood tests showed normal liver and kidney function, so I don't think it's related to anything serious. Does anyone have any ideas what could be causing this, and are there any alternative or nutritional treatments? Herbal diuretics might be good in the short term, but I'm looking to treat the underlying cause. Could it be related to estrogen dominance? 

Thanks in advance for any ideas!


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## chris30523 (Jun 11, 2005)

Could be potassium/sodium imbalance.I am Hypothyroid and have this problem quite often.To much sodium or too little water.It goes away with cranberry juice,water and leaving off anything with sodium.


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## bumpus (Jul 30, 2003)

.
To much Salt and sodium cause you to hold water.

.


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## Ardie/WI (May 10, 2002)

Drink plenty of water. Remove salt from your diet as much as possible. Eat lots of fresh veggies and fruits. Cut back on processed foods and fast foods.

Sometimes heart diseases cause water retention.


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## suburbanite (Jul 27, 2006)

Possible causes of retained water:

hormonal fluctuations in women
renal insufficiency
low blood protein (generally due to liver problems/can be nutritional deficiency)
peripheral artery disease
congestive heart failure
thyroid disease

and that's just the list without looking anything up....

the magic word to plug into your search engines is 'edema'. You can narrow it down a bit by using 'differential diagnosis edema' to get a list of likely causes.

Go ahead. Knock yourself out. You needed a way to fill a few hours, right?


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## flutemandolin (Aug 13, 2003)

Thanks. I bought some cranberry juice yesterday and drank some last night, and this morning my fingers aren't as big as they were yesterday. Maybe there's something to that.

I'll try that search term...like you said Suburbanite, when I have a few hours to kill! One search I did brought up something called The Waterfall Diet, supposed to help, but they don't give much info other than "buy the book".


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## suburbanite (Jul 27, 2006)

I've also heard 'puffy hands' as a symptom of fibromyalgia, but that shouldn't cause the pitting edema of your legs (sock dents that you described).


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## thechickenladyx (Jul 5, 2006)

you don't mention your age. menopause can cause all these symptoms. does the edema fluctuate, some worse during different times of the month? that would point to menopausal, or hormonal fluctuations.

during the blood tests, was a blood sugar taken? diabetes also can have this symptom. especially type II, which is often coorelated with weight gain. are you thirsty alot, and then need to pee often? if so, tell the dr. this asap. that is a clear sign of high blood sugar, which can cause alot of other problems. 

the worst case scenerio would be cardiac insufficiency. which simply put, is the heart is weakening. in that case it would be a snowball effect. the water collects, the heart has to work harder, it gets weaker and the more water collects. do you sometimes feel breathless, but have no problem breathing. that could be heart related. 
the good news is, this can be treated very well with medications (that have been around a long time) 

hope it helps
jesse


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## flutemandolin (Aug 13, 2003)

I just hit the big 4-0 so I very well could be perimenopausal. I don't know what age my mom went through menopause, and I'll probably never find out (she died of ovarian cancer a year ago). The edema does fluctuate some, so it could be hormonal.

I had a fasting glucose test and I don't remember the number but it was within the normal range.

I have fairly good stamina when I exercise (which I should do more of! ) so I don't suspect a heart issue.

Off to keep searching...


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## vicki in NW OH (May 10, 2002)

I had edema in my hands, feet, ankles, legs, and face when I had undiagnosed celiac disease. I was eating enough protein but it (along with many other nutrients) was not being absorbed due to small intestine damage.


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## flutemandolin (Aug 13, 2003)

vicki- I just came across a few sites that mentioned inadequate protein absorption as a possible cause for edema. This, in particular, is a very informative page: http://www.moondragon.org/health/disorders/edema.html 
Coincidentally, I've been suspecting I may have food allergy or digestion issues. Can one develop celiac disease? I thought it was inherited.


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## Karen (Apr 17, 2002)

First you want to be sure your edema is actually water retention and not some other type of swelling. To check this, press with 1 finger on the fatty tissue of where the swelling is (for instance on the top of your feet if they are swollen). Press down firmly for 5 seconds. If it is water retention, then you will see a "dimple" appear where you were pressing down.

Your first course of action would to be omitting salt and drink 2 glasses of cranberry juice a day. 

If you still have significant water retention, for instance, your waking up in the morning with swollen feet, ankles, hands, etc., then your herbal course of action would be either of the following diuretic herbs:
butcher's bloom
dandelion root
horsetail
juniper berries​You can take any of these either as a tea or tincture. You should also take a potassium pill (the vitamin) to prevent leg cramps as you loose excessive fluid rapidly.

After you have lost your excess fluids (remember to stay close to a bathroom because any type of diuretic will cause the "urge" to come on out of nowhere), weigh yourself. When you begin to notice swelling again, weigh yourself at that time, and write down the amount you gain. 

If your watching your salt intake and diet (remember lots of carbs can cause water retention) and you find your still having edema on a regular, ongoing, basis, or your consistently noticing water weight increases of 1-2 lbs., you should schedule an appointment with your doctor or homeopath. It means you have something else doing on besides typical occasional water retention. 

Be sure and keep a food diary for a few days to show your doctor so he/she can rule out food related causes. If you choose to go to a allopathic (traditional) doctor, don't let your doctor just automatically put you on water pills (generally prescription of Lasix (generic: furosemide)) without looking into the cause of your edema. Something is causing it (be it allergies, thyroid, heart, vascular, kidneys, etc.) and you need to find out what it is. Edema is always a "symptom" of something out of step in our bodies.


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## Karen (Apr 17, 2002)

Celiac Disease is inherited but that doesn't mean that any other members of your family have ever had any symptoms; it just means at least one of your close relatives carried the gene and you inherited it. 

A real easy test is to go on a completely gluten-free diet for a month and see if your symptoms subside and you notice significant changes in how you feel. If so, you know you at least have a gluten intolerance. In fact, a gluten-free diet is the only cure for Celiac Disease. Rarely is any medication given, because eliminating gluten does the trick.


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## thechickenladyx (Jul 5, 2006)

if your mom died from ovarian cancer, keep a very close on the condition in yourself. although the powers that be say it doesn't run in families, nurses can tell you there is a pattern. caught early, this condition can be reversed, not caught early, well you know. a symptom of ovarian trouble could be hormonal imbalance. 

i'm not suggesting you are sick. just watch.

jesse


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## suburbanite (Jul 27, 2006)

Karen said:


> First you want to be sure your edema is actually water retention and not some other type of swelling. To check this, press with 1 finger on the fatty tissue of where the swelling is (for instance on the top of your feet if they are swollen). Press down firmly for 5 seconds. If it is water retention, then you will see a "dimple" appear where you were pressing down.


Good point Karen.

I disagree that the first thing to do is omit salt--I think the first thing to do is figure out the cause of the problem, then omit salt if its appropriate. If she's not absorbing protein for some reason (celiac, dietary deficiency, other causes of protein malabsorption) then I don't think the salt thing would help. It might even cause problems in that situation because if she stopped taking salt and dumped total body water, because an abnormally small percentage of the remaining water would be retained in blood vessels due to the lack of osmotic pressure due to the lack of proteins, her total effective blood volume could drop causing her to pass out from 'orthostatic hypotension' whenever she tried to stand up.

Diagnosis first. Then treatment.


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## Karen (Apr 17, 2002)

Suburbanite, respectfully, in allopathic medicine then perhaps you would want a diagnosis, but what you would do and what is the homeopathic approach is two different things. You continually look at every topic from the traditional medicine approach. It just doesn't work that way in AH.

Omitting salt would be a logical first step and one we all should follow anyway. It would almost immediately show whether the water retention is from excessive salt intake. You don't need a diagnosis to safely omit salt.

Not using salt is not going to cause your body to "dump" too much water; nor will it lower your blood pressure to cause you to pass out. We get enough sodium in a good diet that we don't even need added salt whatsoever (we all need to remember that isn't just the salt shaker but also ton of salt in processed foods, restaurant/fast food, etc.). Without salt, we naturally process the excessive water and it passes as urine; but not so abruptly that it causes low blood pressure. 

A diuretic _could_ if you took too much; but conservative use of a diuretic plus taking potassium with the diuretic helps to even that out. Even when you take a diuretic, you generally only take it once (or twice) during the day at spaced intervals and always with potassium (or you could eat a banana or drink a glass of orange juice).

If she omits salt and drinks the cranberry juice and the excessive water is gone, stays gone, and she continues to feel fine with no further symptoms, then that _is_ the diagnosis. Besides, it's just a good health practice to follow regardless. It's simply eliminating something we don't need and shouldn't be consuming anyway.


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## suburbanite (Jul 27, 2006)

Not using salt isn't going to cause your body to dump water if your body is functioning normally. But if you're retaining water, you're not functioning normally.

My issue here isn't so much cutting out salt as the idea of treating something when you don't even know what is wrong.

I really think you need to figure out what is wrong before you go trying to treat it. 

Otherwise you're trying to hit your target blindfolded. (and sorry if I don't have much confidence in your skill with the Force.)


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## flutemandolin (Aug 13, 2003)

I think my allopathic doctor did the appropriate tests etc. to rule out some possible causes (liver, kidney, thyroid) but I think a lot of doctors don't spend much time in med school studying hormone interactions--I mentioned it but he didn't seem to want to test anything at that point. 

To me, part of alternative medicine is being as informed as you possibly can about the workings of the body and possible causes for symptoms. I have a degree in biology, but I didn't do well in physiology. I do know enough, however, to critically review health information on the Internet. That's an alternative to blindly trusting my doctor to give me all the information I need. 

I may try going gluten free for a few days...not easy with kids...

Drinkin' my cranberry juice (with a little vodka! :nono: )


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## thechickenladyx (Jul 5, 2006)

keep enjoying the vodka. hormones are powerful things. i'm just 50, if you have an hour i could tell you stories. they do insidious stuff. but they do level out (i'm told) hasn't happened yet for me. 

go with the "whatever works" theory. 

another thing that worked for me. gravity. put the legs up once in a while. relax

jesse


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## cozyhollow-gal (Sep 11, 2002)

A couple suggestions:  I find that *Dandelion root tea is great* for water retention. A natural. Sure helps me. Cut the salt as it holds water in your system. stop caffeine drinks (or limit if can't do without) (includes pops, teas, coffee and anything with caffeine.) I found a Herb substitute for coffee. It is called Roma. Made from a roasted barley and a touch of Chicory. Has that nice roast coffee taste (very similar)  Has NO caffeine. Find it in Health Food Stores. Rarely found in grocery stores. Be sure and drink enough pure water as you flush out water retention to keep from dehydrating. 
I am sure you will find a solution that will help you with all the good information on this Thread.  hang in there...Patsy


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## Marilyn in CO (May 12, 2002)

In CTM we call it.....the body is out of balance. I might suggest if you have any metal dental work, it is possible for the metal to leech to the various organs, especially the kidney/adrenal area and cause edema and/or other problems. There are some homeopathics that can draw out metals as well as far infrared devices and ionic foot baths.

Also particularly shiatzu massage, foot reflexology and acupunture would be excellent ways to find where the energy blockages are in your body and after regular visits, your body will balance itself. Body energy therapy is so amazing, I have it done on myself and I do the foot reflexology on others and have seen great results. 

Do a lot of detective work about your all clues and you will find an answer.


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## suburbanite (Jul 27, 2006)

Flute if you think it might be a hormone thing that is over the head of your regular docs, then the allopathic expert on that would be an "endocrinologist". They're not very common and you might have to go to an urban center to find one, plus wait a long time to get in on their schedule.


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## flutemandolin (Aug 13, 2003)

Marilyn- there happens to be a practitioner of reiki, reflexology, and acupressure right here in the little town where I work! I may check into it. 

suburbanite- Not to mention getting a referral, etc.


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## Deb&Al (Aug 21, 2002)

Karen said:


> Suburbanite, respectfully, in allopathic medicine then perhaps you would want a diagnosis, but what you would do and what is the homeopathic approach is two different things. You continually look at every topic from the traditional medicine approach. It just doesn't work that way in AH.
> 
> Omitting salt would be a logical first step and one we all should follow anyway. It would almost immediately show whether the water retention is from excessive salt intake. You don't need a diagnosis to safely omit salt.
> 
> ...


hi karen,
i don't mean to cause thread drift. i've been reading this thread and have occasionally puffy ankles, which i suspect is from sitting too much typing transcripts.

you mentioned getting enough salt in processed foods and restaurant foods, so you don't need to salt at home. but if you do all your own cooking and baking and don't buy processed foods, would you still get the amount of salt you need?

in other words, if all i'm adding is a half teaspoon oif salt for biscuits in the morning, of which i eat one or two, and scrambled eggs, no salt, only pepper, salad for lunch with flax seed oil/balsamic vinegar dressing, slices of cold chicken, no salt, dinner maybe meat and vegetables or soup, with no salt, should i be getting more salt in my diet?

if you have to break this thread out i understand. i don't want to interrupt the too much salt discussion.
thanks
debbie


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## Karen (Apr 17, 2002)

Our bodies require 500mg of sodium a day; that's equal to only 1/4 tsp. of table salt. Amazing isn't it when we really take a look at how much we consume? Remembering also that many plants, vegetable, and protien sources also have sodium in them.


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