# Black powder guns



## collieradomtman (Nov 10, 2013)

I think something that goes unlooked and set to the side as a novelty, is black powder weapons. Muzzleloaders worked along time before cartridge guns and still work today. When the ammo is gone and you can't reload brass anymore what are you going to do? I personally use a black powder gun in some aspect in my life everyday. I carry a 1851 Colt repro every day as a work on my property as protection. Plus a couple others I may carry. Every thing I need for these firearms I can make. From the powder to the cap. Black powder=more self reliance and more freedom on the homestead.

Sent from my Y9190 using Homesteading Today mobile app


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## beowoulf90 (Jan 13, 2004)

While I love my Cap & Ball revolvers, I have to take issue with a few things.. This isn't to say you aren't correct, but there are down sides that I see.

1. Making your own powder. Consistency will be the issue, if you can get all the components you need. Will you be able to mix it consistently? From what I've seen from others (no experience here), the answer is no. That is unless you have a formula that is consistent, if so please share.. 

2. Where, How are you making your fulminate of mercury? (is that the right substance in a cap, brain freeze).. 

Now as long as your targets are relatively close, you will be able to defend yourself, but if they are farther away, they may be able to take you out before you can defend yourself effectively..

Again these are just thoughts, and questions.

I do own a Starr, 1858 Remington New Model Army (45 cal), 1851 Colt Navy(36 cal), 1860 Colt Army(45 cal), 1832 Early Sheriff's model (31 cal), Remington Pocket pistol(31 cal). Plus numerous parts and pieces.. All are reproductions. Yes I've been firing them for many years and have collected a few of them. I do love shooting black powder, but as my main choice for a defensive weapon, I'll choose something newer..

I even had an 1860 Colt Army (CVA) blow up in my hand.. It destroyed itself, thankfully I wasn't hurt. It blew the top of the cylinder off and the bottom of the barrel out at the loading lever..


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## collieradomtman (Nov 10, 2013)

I know that black powder is not without it faults, I myself had a primer fail as a pack of wild dogs where charging me. (scary experience) what I meant and I realize I didn't make the point clear in my ranting, is that it would be a good idea to have them when all the other ammo is out. I personally carry and use them out of nostalgia I guess I admire the simplicity of the past. 

Sent from my Y9190 using Homesteading Today mobile app


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## beowoulf90 (Jan 13, 2004)

First, don't take this as harsh criticism. It's not meant to be that. I'm only asking how you plan to get past the issues/problems I see.
I too love the simplicity of blackpowder,if you notice I'm a Civil War reenactor, so we get to burn a lot of powder. I've been doing Civil War for over 20 years now. But my passion is Mountain Man/Rendezvous.(just not enough events locally) 
But once the powder is gone, it's gone, how do you intend to make your own.
That is the key to all of this. 
Yes I've seen formulas to make your own powder in the past. Again I've never made my own, so this is just from what I've read about others experiences. So my opinion isn't set in stone.. Anyway, from everything I've read consistency is the issue. 
Please correct me if I'm wrong.. I would love to be able to make my own.


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## GREENCOUNTYPETE (Jul 25, 2006)

KNO3 , willow clippings , rubbing alcohol , a meat grinder , a sieve , a few other things , there are some guys making some small batch wet process black over on another muzzle loading forum , and shooting as well as the rest of us in postal matches 

a finter and a source of flint would be the ultimate in self fed arms


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## beowoulf90 (Jan 13, 2004)

GREENCOUNTYPETE said:


> KNO3 , willow clippings , rubbing alcohol , a meat grinder , a sieve , a few other things , there are some guys making some small batch wet process black over on another muzzle loading forum , and shooting as well as the rest of us in postal matches
> 
> a finter and a source of flint would be the ultimate in self fed arms


Ok, so they are achieving consistency in their mixtures?
If so then I stand corrected..
Can I ask what forum?

Thanks,


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## nosqrls (Jun 9, 2012)

You can make your own smokeless powder too. I worked for hercules on powder line.
Nitrocellulose, nitroglycerin, paraplex, carbon black, graphite,sulfur,salt peter, alcohol (wet mixing, Dry mixing can be dangerous) we used commercial bread mixers upto 800lbs per mix. cut using commercial ricer different extruder heads and cutting blade count for different mixes. then coated with graphite, paraplex, carbon black. used mash tonne. and finally dried in used corn flake driers.


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## Ohio Rusty (Jan 18, 2008)

Alot of different hard cherts and quartz's will give good sparks. Out west where flint isn't common, agate and petrified wood spalls make excellent rocks to give the sparks you need in a flintlock.

Back in the 80's and 90's, there were people selling a device that fit in the jaws of a flintlock that used the common round flints like the ones used in a cigarette lighter. I don't know how well they worked. There may be some floating around still available.

I have one of the Tap-O-Cap cap maker devices for cap-n-ball guns. Unfortunately, the recommended powder charge came from caps like the roll caps you used in toy cap pistols. I haven't seen any of those in years.
Another thought .......... those little snappers/poppers wrapped in tissue you threw on the ground at the 4th of July and they would give off aloud pop or bang -- At night they give off a big flame. If you took the little rocks from those and packed them in a percussion cap ....... I wonder if they would give off enough flame charge to set off black powder ??. You might have to dribble some 4F under the nipple and screw it back into the snail. 

I have both a flintlock and caplock gun. Suitable real BP would be a challenge. Flintlocks don't work well at all with substitute BP's like pyrodex, Triple 7, Shockeys Pioneer powder, etc. Tried that and it was a dismal failure. Doing a dual charge of real BP first and then substitute BP on top of the real BP would work. It would be a pain to carry two different containers of powders though ....
Ohio Rusty ><>


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## GREENCOUNTYPETE (Jul 25, 2006)

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?103852-My-homemade-black-powder


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## beowoulf90 (Jan 13, 2004)

GREENCOUNTYPETE said:


> http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?103852-My-homemade-black-powder


Thank you!


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## MelonBar (Dec 27, 2012)

I agree. I think you should keep a set off everything!

Simi-autos
If they ban those
Bolt/lever actions
if they ban those
Black Powder
If they ban those
Bows and Blow guns
If they bad those
Take a rock and smash some NWO Gestopo troopers head and and take his full auto MP5 then use it against the banners.


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## jwal10 (Jun 5, 2010)

There are some great air rifles out there. Deadly and stealth....James


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## 1shotwade (Jul 9, 2013)

jwal10-just picked up a used 34 diana ran it across the chrony and thru chairgun 7.9s @864 fps,13.1 fpemv and 6.9 fpe @ 50 yards.Sweet for $140


Wade


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## MichaelZ (May 21, 2013)

I have a muzzle loader for hunting. I use Triple 7 powder by Hodgdon and sabots with wads attached. Also, primer caps that are the type used for common shotgun shells. It gets very filthy after each shot. At a minimum you must clean out between shots with a rod and cloth. After the season you must do a really thorough cleaning. So it is a bit of extra work. I am thinking the ammo, after it is all assembled will be cheaper than a regular rifle. Love shooting it though - fire and smoke comes out the end. With consistent powder and loading, you can site it in fairly accurately, at least to 80 yards or so. I would take a bit of caution on making my own powder - the wrong powder can lead to an exploding barrel.


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## 1shotwade (Jul 9, 2013)

Everyone out there that is interested in smoke pole should take a step back and look at history. I enjoy history and I enjoy guns so this really stuck with me. I got a chance to read a letter sent from a British commander stationed here to his boss in England during the revolutionary war.He had received a letter chastising him for his inability to remove the american resistance from his area of control.The British were using the"brown Bess" as it is known and it's a smooth bore,loaded with buck&ball.(MOA barn door @50 yd.)and the Americans were using the Pennsylvania rifle(which became known as the Kentucky rifle.)In this letter he explained that the range on the field weapon was 50 paces and the Americans were killing the British at "300 to 400 paces"

Bottom line is none of us give that old front stuff'n side lock the credit due.If the original 1700 version was good for 300-400 paces we should be making 1000 yard shots all day long with the quality repos on the market today.


Wade


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## TRellis (Sep 16, 2013)

1shotwade said:


> Everyone out there that is interested in smoke pole should take a step back and look at history. I enjoy history and I enjoy guns so this really stuck with me. I got a chance to read a letter sent from a British commander stationed here to his boss in England during the revolutionary war.He had received a letter chastising him for his inability to remove the american resistance from his area of control.The British were using the"brown Bess" as it is known and it's a smooth bore,loaded with buck&ball.(MOA barn door @50 yd.)and the Americans were using the Pennsylvania rifle(which became known as the Kentucky rifle.)In this letter he explained that the range on the field weapon was 50 paces and the Americans were killing the British at "300 to 400 paces"
> 
> Bottom line is none of us give that old front stuff'n side lock the credit due.If the original 1700 version was good for 300-400 paces we should be making 1000 yard shots all day long with the quality repos on the market today.
> 
> ...


The Redcoats also moved in big groups called formations and presented themselves as large area targets. 

When white tail deer start doing the same I may think of trying a 1000 yard shot. Until then, I think I will stick with the 200 yard zero that I have for my in-line muzzle loader. :happy2:

TRellis


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## 1shotwade (Jul 9, 2013)

Well, the point is that the weapon has more ability than we give it credit for even if we do not.If I see any redcoats I'll let you know!

Wade


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## TRellis (Sep 16, 2013)

1shotwade said:


> Well, the point is that the weapon has more ability than we give it credit for even if we do not.If I see any redcoats I'll let you know!
> 
> Wade


Oh... no doubt it will reach out and touch at a distance much greater than what it is normally used at. I just wonder about its accuracy at 1000 yds.

Remember.... One if by land, two if by sea!!!!!

TRellis


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## wilded (May 10, 2002)

For educational purposes here is how to make consistently good black powder. 
http://wildedtx.blogspot.com/2012/08/making-your-own-black-powder.html


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## GREENCOUNTYPETE (Jul 25, 2006)

the Americans basically invented sniping , our forfathers with 30-42 inch 46 cal rifled barrels were figuring out the windage and hold over to take a British officer off his horse at 330 yards with a patched round ball.

It was a huge psych factor , now British officers wore died in the wool uniforms while enlisted men wore died in the cloth wool uniforms that didn't hold the color as well so they could tell officer from non at a great distance , they also had the confidence that shoulder arms could not reach them at such distances ,and stood on ridges to get a good view of the battle field well, until they got hit , but even then if they would cower in a hole the would loose the confidence of their men 

if our forefathers had figured out faster twist rifling with paper patched conical projectiles they could have been taking the officers off their horses at 1000 yards. but that advancement was coming and greatly changed the civil war with the use of rifled cannons that took the range from 1 1/2 miles to 5 miles and all together changed the fortification of the future , brick that had repelled round cannon balls was now crushed to bits by the conical projectile that carried 4-5 times the energy even at 3 times the distance.


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## collieradomtman (Nov 10, 2013)

I just let my wife's cousin who is a police officer shoot my 1851 today. Him being a avid gun guy never gave black powder a second thought, until today between his Springfield xd and my cap and ball I out shot him with less malfunctions. Granted he could reload faster but accuracy I had him beat. Anyway long story short he is investing in a couple 1852 colts of his own.


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## bowdonkey (Oct 6, 2007)

Not trying to rain on the parade. But if you have to buy the saltpeter and sulfur you're not making anything (at least from scratch) you're mixing chemicals. Why not buy the blackpowder premade? I would work on making it from scratch, probably after figureing out using bought chemicals, just to have the knowledge. Just as a counter to an all out ban, if it was feasible to make it in the first place.


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## GREENCOUNTYPETE (Jul 25, 2006)

bowdonkey said:


> Not trying to rain on the parade. But if you have to buy the saltpeter and sulfur you're not making anything (at least from scratch) you're mixing chemicals. Why not buy the blackpowder premade? I would work on making it from scratch, probably after figureing out using bought chemicals, just to have the knowledge. Just as a counter to an all out ban, if it was feasible to make it in the first place.




because all the chemicals ship has mat free and for a few dollars a pound 

real black you pay a 50 dollar hazzmat on so if your buying 25 pounds at a time which is not allowed in a some states your only paying 2 dollars a pound in shipping but if you can only buy 5 pounds like in Illinois that's 10 dollars a pound shipping plus 12-30 dollars a pound for the powder 
but definitely also as a learning experience , you could also safely store a lot of the ingredients seperate then make it up a small batch at a time


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## bowdonkey (Oct 6, 2007)

Good point pete. I was coming from my experience of making soap, reloading ammo, making wood arrows. I'm really not making anything, just mixing or assembling premade components. But all knowledge is good.


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## wilded (May 10, 2002)

Because my cost is about $3.00 per pound instead of $twenty something per pound. You are not just mixing chemicals. You must make your willow charcoal and grind it along with grinding the other chemicals and mix. Then wet and granulate. A Blackpowder factory does the same thing. JMHO


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## GREENCOUNTYPETE (Jul 25, 2006)

MelonBar said:


> I agree. I think you should keep a set off everything!
> 
> Simi-autos
> If they ban those
> ...


If it comes to it 
there was a really good article in American rifleman a few months back about an improvised gun given to a US soldier by on of his Philippine rebel comrades , the maker had found a partial box of 32 S&W so he built a small pistol using brass from old artilery shells left by the Japs , a small piece of pipe and he cut and formed a hammer ,trigger an sear 

it was a small break type action , when the soldier it was given to asked about it's range the man who gifted it to him pointed his finger like a pistol and poked him in the belly

you may also recall the liberator these were small pistols made by General motors signal division and dropped in France each small box contained a pistol with 5 rounds 45 acp the wooden dowel for knocking the spent cartridge from the barrel , It was a gun by which to get a better gun


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## GREENCOUNTYPETE (Jul 25, 2006)

bowdonkey said:


> Good point pete. I was coming from my experience of making soap, reloading ammo, making wood arrows. I'm really not making anything, just mixing or assembling premade components. But all knowledge is good.


I have harvested the deer , render the tallow then purchase the lye , we make soap also , I think it is important to learn the process , then if you want to take it further you can make your won lye from the white ashes of a hot fire , but the store lye gives you a good platform to start with 

in reloading I cast the bullets myself from reclaimed lead , sure I bought the mold but it takes the education much further . especialy when we start talking about reforming brass from a other cartridges 

in cooking they call it scratch if you start with flower , eggs , sugar , fruit , vegetable and such , I think any time we take it further than buying just the canned parts and a simple mix , we can call it home made or scratch as long as we explain we used some refined raw ingredients , we need not refine them all ourselves.


with everything it is good to start with the "canned" ingredient's then work out how to make your own one component at a time , obviosly some things are clearly not cost effective to make , and other thinks are more dangerous like priming compounds


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## bowdonkey (Oct 6, 2007)

Exactly Pete. Having those premade, refined components to start with makes the learning process much eaiser and controllable. After that the procuring and refining of raw materials can be pursued, so one can be more self reliant.


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## plowhand (Aug 14, 2005)

Charcoal ain't too hard to make......I can get my salpeter out of my mule stalls....sulfur is the problem in my part of the country......


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## wilded (May 10, 2002)

You need to make your charcoal out of black willow. I found sulfur at the feed store in my area.


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## GREENCOUNTYPETE (Jul 25, 2006)

look here for salt peter and sulfur to get started with pure ingredients http://www.skylighter.com/mall/chemicals.asp?Sort=P


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## joebill (Mar 2, 2013)

GREENCOUNTYPETE said:


> you may also recall the liberator these were small pistols made by General motors signal division and dropped in France each small box contained a pistol with 5 rounds 45 acp the wooden dowel for knocking the spent cartridge from the barrel , It was a gun by which to get a better gun


My dad ran a mobile grease rack and repair facility on the "redball express" that helped allied troops through europe after the allied invasion. he was in France, Belgium, Germany, etc.

One morning he was scouting the first few miles of thier planned route for the day and as he started to cross a bridge, he looked beneath it and saw a dead German and a small French boy beside him.

he got somebody who spoke French to question the boy as to what had happened and got this story;

The boy had aproached the German from upwind, and saw that he had the bridge wired and ready to detonate with a plunger when allied troops tried to cross it (that was confirmed). He offered the German soldier a cigarette and a light, and the soldier turned away from the wind to light up, whereupon, the lad pulled his "liberator" from under his jacket and opened the Nazi's mind up for all time. Then, he sat down and waited for the Americans to arrive, because he was out of ammunition and cigarettes, since he had been doing the same rigamaroll for days.

Dad gave him some smokes, ammo, and a few chocolate bars, wished him well and sent him on his way. He often wondered if the lad had lived to see a free france.......Joe


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