# Why do my bagels come out flat?



## eam

I use a bagel recipe from HT that tastes really good. However, when they finally come out of the oven, they're flat. The dough is a great looking dough when I take it out of the bread machine. I form the bagels and let them rise. They rise nicely. I then boil them; they get even puffier. Then I bake them and they flatten. I'm making just ordinary white flour bagels. Everything seems good up until the baking.

Does anyone have any leads as to why this happens? 

Thanks.
Elizabeth


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## Joe123

Link might help you out on why they turn out flat
http://bakingbites.com/2007/06/homemade-bagels/


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## Jeff54321

It would be hard (impossible) to answer your question without more information about your recipe, techniques, and timing.


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## eam

Here's the recipe from a HT post 03/08/07:

I make the dough in my bread machine

1 cup water
1 1/2 tsp salt
2 Tbsp sugar
3 cups flour
2 1/4 tsp active dry yeast

Do the dough mixing

Boil 3 quarts water; stir in 3 Tbsp sugar

Place dough on lightly floured surface - let rest for 5 min

cut dough into 9 equal pieces
roll each into a smooth ball
flatten balls
poke hole in middle with your thumb
twirl the dough to enlarge the hole and even out the dough around it (mine are never beautiful )
cover bagels with a clean cloth
let rest for 10 min

with metal spatula, transfer bagels to boiling water, 3 at a time
let boil for 30 seconds
turn bagels over
boil another 30 seconds
remove from water with slotted spoon
drain briefly on clean towel
transfer to baking sheet sprinkled with corn meal

glaze tops of bagel with egg white, if desired

bake at 375 for 20-25 min until well-browned


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## Jeff54321

Elizabeth,

What kind of flour are you using? The best choice would be high gluten flour sometimes just referred to as gluten flour. This is the flour generally used for bagels. This is a high protein flour that develops a strong gluten structure in the dough so that the dough holds together really well. This is why bagels have a dense tight structure. The second flour choice would be bread flour which would also work well and finally the third choice would be AP flour. I have made bagels very successfully with AP flour but the other flours simply work better.

Is the dough allowed to rise after it is mixed by the machine? No matter the method of mixing the dough should then rise to double its original size. At this point I would add a very important step to your recipe and that is to deflate the risen dough, form it into a ball, put it in a covered bowl, and refrigerate the dough for at least 4 hours and up to two days.

When the dough comes out of the refrigerator deflate the dough and I would divide it into 5 pieces not 9. There is simply not enough dough here to make 9 bagels. Then proceed with your recipe along with these changes: Pre heat your oven to 500 degrees, when you put the bagels into the oven, on a rack or stone positioned in the lower half of the oven, immediately turn the oven down to 450 degrees and bake for 25-30 minutes.

It would also help to steam the oven right when you put the bagels in. A baking stone is also a big help. If you use one you have to preheat the oven with the stone in it for one hour.

Your bagels are going flat mostly because they are rising too much, too fast, and then falling back down on themselves after being in the oven for a few minutes. My suggestions should stop that problem.

I hope this helps,

Jeff


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## eam

Thanks Jeff - great suggestions. I'll give them a shot and see what happens.

I use King Arthur all-purpose. I've been tempted to use some wheat flour (we grind our own) mixed with it but I wanted to get the basic bagel down first. 

One question: when I take the dough out of the frig, do I let it come up to room temp (and / or a rise cycle) and then form the balls/bagels? Or can I shape right away and then let rise? (Ok, that's two questions....but related.)

Again, thanks for the tips. I'll give them a try.
Elizabeth


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## Jeff54321

Elizabeth,

When you take it out of the refrigerator, deflate it and go forth without letting it warm up. You want to work with cold dough at this point and there are no other rises other than that in boiling water and then the oven.

On another note I too grind my own flour but use mostly white flour for bagels. Your KA flour should work just fine.

Jeff

Let me know your results


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## eam

I'm giving it another go. I can't believe it's been almost two months! I made another batch a few weeks ago but didn't have time to put the dough in the frig for very long (only about an hour).

Now, I have my dough chilling (it's just gone in at 10.30 am) and I'll take it out about 5.30 this afternoon to start on it. That will give about 7 hours of chilling time. 

Fingers crossed!
Elizabeth


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## Jeff54321

I have wondered how you and the bagels were getting along.

Jeff


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## eam

Jeff - you're a genius! My bagels came out beautifully. I made 6 bagels out of the recipe. When I boiled them they puffed up nicely and then didn't deflate when I baked them.

We had them for breakfast with our farm fresh eggs, homemade goat cheese, and bacon from last fall's pig...hhhmmmm good.

Thanks for your help.

I'll try this again a few times and then move on to wheat.

Do you add gluten when you make wheat flour bagels? Would 1 cup wheat flour to two cups white be an ok starting point?

Thanks again.
Elizabeth


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## Kim_NC

OMG...I want to eat breakfast at your place! 

Thanks for the bagel tips, Jeff. I've been watching this thread.


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## eam

Thanks Kim - we may not have a lot of money but we sure eat well! (Especially so, thanks to Jeff!)
Elizabeth


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## Jeff54321

Hi Elizabeth,

I am glad to hear that you met with success. Baking bread is all about technique, the ingredients are very secondary.

I do not use wheat gluten but that is a personal preference and not because there is anything inherently wrong with the gluten. I do not use it because adding gluten is basically a store bought short cut when that very gluten can be developed in the dough by way of mixing, kneading, and fermenting. Why buy a box of gluten when I don't have to? Also the end result of proper gluten formation is a much better product. You may have noticed that not only did your bagels not go flat but they had better texture and flavor as a result of their time in the refrigerator.

Gluten actually develops as the dough ferments in the refrigerator. This is why "no knead" recipes work. The dough is left to sit for a day or two and in that time the gluten develops just as if the dough had been mixed and kneaded.

Flour, water, and salt (plus sourdough which is flour & water) are the only ingredients I use in 90% of my baking. The other 10% of the time I am baking something unusual like a holiday bread or trying out some unique recipe. 

I bake a lot of whole grain breads but I have not made whole wheat bagels. 1 part whole wheat to 2 parts white flour should work perfectly as this would be a very workable formula for almost any type of bread. You will likely need to add a little extra water as whole wheat flour will absorb more water than white flour.

Happy Baking,

Jeff


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## Metagirrl

Elizabeth and Jeff-

Thanks for sharing your trouble with the bagels, and the solution. I missed the original post with the recipe, but I saw this one.

So, I tried the recipe with Jeff's suggestions, and the bagels turned out great! DD13 had a friend over last night and I made up the dough and put it in the fridge overnight. I got up early and shaped em, boiled 'em, and baked 'em. The girls loved them. I've been making english muffins every weekend, but this was a fun change.

Yum! Thanks for the advice and sharing your experience!


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## perennial

metagirl -

do you have a recipe for your english muffins that you'd share?


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## Metagirrl

Surely.

I posted it here:

Um, well, the post must have been lost in a crash. I'll start a new thread for it, so as not to hijack the bagel thread.


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## grannyharley

Jeff54321 said:


> Elizabeth,
> 
> What kind of flour are you using? The best choice would be high gluten flour sometimes just referred to as gluten flour. This is the flour generally used for bagels. This is a high protein flour that develops a strong gluten structure in the dough so that the dough holds together really well. This is why bagels have a dense tight structure. The second flour choice would be bread flour which would also work well and finally the third choice would be AP flour. I have made bagels very successfully with AP flour but the other flours simply work better.
> 
> Is the dough allowed to rise after it is mixed by the machine? No matter the method of mixing the dough should then rise to double its original size. At this point I would add a very important step to your recipe and that is to deflate the risen dough, form it into a ball, put it in a covered bowl, and refrigerate the dough for at least 4 hours and up to two days.
> 
> When the dough comes out of the refrigerator deflate the dough and I would divide it into 5 pieces not 9. There is simply not enough dough here to make 9 bagels. Then proceed with your recipe along with these changes: Pre heat your oven to 500 degrees, when you put the bagels into the oven, on a rack or stone positioned in the lower half of the oven, immediately turn the oven down to 450 degrees and bake for 25-30 minutes.
> 
> It would also help to steam the oven right when you put the bagels in. A baking stone is also a big help. If you use one you have to preheat the oven with the stone in it for one hour.
> 
> Your bagels are going flat mostly because they are rising too much, too fast, and then falling back down on themselves after being in the oven for a few minutes. My suggestions should stop that problem.
> 
> I hope this helps,
> 
> Jeff


I have the same issue my bagels look nice until they come out of the oven then they are flat. I did your suggestion. The dough cold was hard to form and they kind of came apart, separated, and weird looking. Any suggestion how to properly form them?


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## Belfrybat

Jeff hasn't been on the board for three years so I doubt he will answer you.
After you've boiled them, are they nice and puffy? You have to slide them into the boiling water gently so they don't fall. Since the boiling actually cooks them, I don't see how they can flatten when you bake them. Maybe share your recipe so you'll get better responses?


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