# Kangals vs Anatolians?



## TriWinkle (Oct 2, 2011)

What's the difference between the two? Any recommendations?

I've been rethinking my next dog a bit in light of the fact that a couple of weeks ago, not too far from my place, a 13 year old girl was attacked and hospitalized by some random stranger while in her own yard. I don't know what the particulars of that whole incident are, but I do know that the more eyes I have on my girl while she's playing around on my place, the better.

Those of you with LGD experience, do you think either of the above, or another breed, would be a good dog to keep an eye on my place? Lately I've become as concerned with *two*-legged attackers as I have the four-legged variety.

Maybe I'm asking the wrong questions...Not sure, but figure I'll learn all I can here and keep on with the research.


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## FishOil (Apr 2, 2010)

I can only speak for the Anatolian's as I have had on for four years. He is a very loyal dog and a stranger can approach him after being introduced. However he will not leave me when a stranger is near me or the wife. He has yet to attack anyone in any manner but if a stranger puts a hand on either one of us he jumps between us and tries to push us away from the person. 

We have had this happen more than once. Usually his size at 160 pounds keeps people from doing anything but standing still while they shake in fear. We had a so called friend whom I don't trust come over and he would have nothing to do with them at all. He wouldn't let the person get anywhere near us by standing is front of us and not moving.



FishOil


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## Pops2 (Jan 27, 2003)

TriWinkle said:


> What's the difference between the two? Any recommendations?
> 
> I've been rethinking my next dog a bit in light of the fact that a couple of weeks ago, not too far from my place, a 13 year old girl was attacked and hospitalized by some random stranger while in her own yard. I don't know what the particulars of that whole incident are, but I do know that the more eyes I have on my girl while she's playing around on my place, the better.
> 
> ...


Kangals are a pure breed developed over centuries in turkey with highly CONSISTANT personalities. Anatolians are legitimized mongrels turned into solid working dogs over the last three decades.


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## motdaugrnds (Jul 3, 2002)

Great thread! Thanks for starting this. I, too, am learning the differences between the LGD breeds. I'll be following this thread with interest.


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## Rock (Jan 5, 2009)

If I was looking to protect youngsters, there are 3 things I would look for in the dog. No matter the breed (It can be found in some lines of many breeds) 
1st thing I would look for are bone crushing power.
2nd the drive to escalate it to the point where the threat to their charge stops or they die trying to make it stop.
3rd ridiculous pain threshold, where they just wont quit


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## Pops2 (Jan 27, 2003)

Rock said:


> If I was looking to protect youngsters, there are 3 things I would look for in the dog. No matter the breed (It can be found in some lines of many breeds)
> 1st thing I would look for are bone crushing power.
> 2nd the drive to escalate it to the point where the threat to their charge stops or they die trying to make it stop.
> 3rd ridiculous pain threshold, where they just wont quit


You should add bomb proof temperament, strong desire to please & good natural problem solving ability. You don't NEED bone crushing power. Most criminally minded individuals (especially those that prey on children) are inherently cowards. A small amount of pain and a shocking hit will suffice to run them off or subdue them (which is why a 40# mal or heeler can drop most men).


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## CageFreeFamily (Jul 19, 2012)

There are so many breeds that could fit this bill, but to begin to weed through them you would really need a prioritized list of what you need and want from that dog. 

For instance, I use Ana/Pyrs to protect my livestock because they do the job with our large predators and coyote packs, while remaining safe with my children and the children that visit our ranch. They are reasonably available nearby and are within my price range. They fit within the environment that we live in, making them fairly low maintenance, etc..

For my home I choose English Mastiffs. They will die to protect my family, but will not attack. They use their sheer size to intimidate and only use force when necessary. Force usually equating to holding the threat in place until the police can arrive. They would only cause physical damage if they were forced to. This reduces my chances of ever getting sued, and I never have to worry about my kid's safety. They are gentle, slow moving, emotionally attached to the family, and do not require much food or exercise to stay fit, healthy and happy. 

These dogs fit well into my life because I was sure about what exactly I wanted them to be before I got them. If you have specific needs like, limited fencing, limited food budget, a natural attachment to your daughter, ability to guard livestock and family equally, etc., it's important to know these things in advance so as to avoid disappointment and frustration.


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## Rock (Jan 5, 2009)

Pops2 said:


> You should add bomb proof temperament, strong desire to please & good natural problem solving ability. You don't NEED bone crushing power. Most criminally minded individuals (especially those that prey on children) are inherently cowards. A small amount of pain and a shocking hit will suffice to run them off or subdue them (which is why a 40# mal or heeler can drop most men).


 That is your opinion and your welcome to it, protect your kids in anyway you see fit, the US Gov Thinks signs that say gun free zone protects kids. 
I want a dog that if needed will inflict serious damage or even death, or die trying. If I get sued and the kid is protected I won. I will gamble on most things, horses, dogs, 1st fish caught ect, but the wee folks in my family, not gonna gamble. Do I have to weigh everything I have earned acquired over the course of my life Vs the cost of their safety. Take it all now!
This country and the values of the people have been in decline for a long time. (maybe since they took prayer out of school).
I have shown people many times that their untrained dog (yes even Bulldogs) when placed under a fight or flee situations will go into self preservation mode.


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## Pops2 (Jan 27, 2003)

Rock said:


> That is your opinion and your welcome to it, protect your kids in anyway you see fit, the US Gov Thinks signs that say gun free zone protects kids.
> I want a dog that if needed will inflict serious damage or even death, or die trying. If I get sued and the kid is protected I won. I will gamble on most things, horses, dogs, 1st fish caught ect, but the wee folks in my family, not gonna gamble. Do I have to weigh everything I have earned acquired over the course of my life Vs the cost of their safety. Take it all now!
> This country and the values of the people have been in decline for a long time. (maybe since they took prayer out of school).
> I have shown people many times that their untrained dog (yes even Bulldogs) when placed under a fight or flee situations will go into self preservation mode.


The kind of guy that NEEDS that bone crushing power is also the kind of guy that WILL kill your dog. To have that level of force they have to commit to a full bite. I've owned, trained & handled dogs for almost 35 years. I've been bitten by bulldogs, cur dogs, a heeler, GSDs & Mals, not that sleeve crap but real bites. The dogs that I caught, manhandled & could have killed were the ones that committed to a full hard bite. BTW even with 90-100# dogs, none EVER crushed bone, some hairline fractures but no crushing. In fact the most significant & debilitating injuries were tears & pulls to the muscles, tendons & ligaments from the dogs' thrashing.
But I'm not the average person. The average person is intimidated by the presence of a dog of any real size and will become fully committed to flight at the first contact. Anyone who doesn't is probably going to help your dog give his life for you (hopefully while you're getting the gun).


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## pancho (Oct 23, 2006)

If you want a dog to protect livestock get a LGD.
If you want a dog to protect a person get a dog bred for that purpose.
There is a lot of difference in a LGD protecting livestock from a predator and protecting a person from another person.
If you ever actually need a guard dog to protect you using a dog bred for another purpose is not a good idea.
Even the dogs bred for guarding do not always make a good guard dog.
When it comes to protecting a person you do not want a dog that only looks the part. You need a dog that can do the job.


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## Otter (Jan 15, 2008)

The dogs I have now are useless, all of them.

BUT - folks coming by don't know that. All they know is there is a whole pack of dogs here, and they're pretty loud.
And really, that's usually enough. Not a lot of folks are going to see if the dog (or pack of dogs) snarling and barking, hackles raised, on the other side of the fence really mean it or not.

If I was going to train one to guard, it wouldn't be the 90 lb mix or the 60 pound cur, it would be the 30 lb heeler/bc cross.
Why?
Because he's got the sharpest temperament, and herding breeds (mostly) do what I call the "slash and dash".
Pops has a good point, if a dog wants to "close" with an opponent, and that opponent is a human, so long as the human doesn't panic - your dog is toast! He's going to get strangled or stabbed, and a dog savvy person can about rip their lower jaw clean off.

My herding type dog has been bred for generations to get in and out. He could rip you 3 times in as many seconds and you'd be torn and bleeding and never touch him - that will definitely deter/distract someone long enough for YOU to do something about it.

When I first moved out on my own (small, cute, 18, female) my uncle told me to go to the pound and get a big black dog. If I didn't get one quick, he'd show up with one. If you want to deter unsavory folks, big and black are important, if it will Heel, Down and bark on command ("Who's that?! is a good command to bark) that's a very good deterrent. And deterrent is a dog's main job there. Man stoppers are rare and need to be_ trained for it._
I got a GSD/BC cross and trained him well. He defended my home and property on more then one occasion, was in the newspaper twice.

It's not just the breed, it's the time and training you put into it. But to protect my children from other humans, my first choice is a herding dog or mix, black in color.
To protect them from unruly stock or wildlife - I never in my life wished for a good bulldog more then when the pig got loose and my toddler was out playing. Curs are also excellent for that.
Those types are known for bonding tightly with their people and taking guidance. Any LGD breed is just too independent for me to consider for the express purpose of guarding my kids. 

When DS found a baby copperhead, Deacon, the heeler/BC was right there next to him, involved in what he was doing and pitched a fit that brought me running when DS went near that snake. For a dog to guard the kids - it needs to be WITH the kids, interested and involved in what they're doing.


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## TriWinkle (Oct 2, 2011)

Then maybe what I'm looking for is an LGD...I had read on here that many relied on theirs to guard them as well, but perhaps they were wrong? I don't know...Like I said, I'm looking to learn out of this one...Was hoping for a dog that could multitask, but it appears not.


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## Otter (Jan 15, 2008)

A larger herding breed is the best place to start looking for a multi-tasking dog. Thunder, the 50lb GSD/BC mix was big enough to be a visual and physical deterrent, easy to train and big enough to handle many threats. He bluffed out several humans with bad intent, and the 2 he couldn't bluff he put over the fence, one fellow minus a shoe and some blood. He was big enough to go right through a screen and once through a storm window without hesitation.

Deacon, at 20 pounds lighter, the spirit is willing, but he's not big enough to not have back-up. An escaped pig or some fellow coming over a fence - Deacon can distract them and they're not coming out unmarked, but they can plow right through him. What he can do is give ME enough time to deal with whatever.

If you're looking for a really good multi-tasking dog, a well bred Australian Shepherd (especially the lines bred for cow work) are hard to beat. As a breed they adore children and have good protective instincts, are easy to train and can make a bull back down.


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## pancho (Oct 23, 2006)

One thing you do not want. A dog that is all bluff. If you want the dog to protect a person they should be good at what they are supposed to do. You do not want a light weight dog, it should be large enough to take a grown man to the ground in a second. You do not want a slash and dash dog, you want a dog that will take a bite and work it. You want a dog that is not afraid to attack a person.

Not many people have the need for a personal protection dog. Not many people have even seen one. They are very few good ones. If you do have one you will know what a safe feeling really is.


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## TriWinkle (Oct 2, 2011)

pancho said:


> One thing you do not want. A dog that is all bluff. If you want the dog to protect a person they should be good at what they are supposed to do. You do not want a light weight dog, it should be large enough to take a grown man to the ground in a second. You do not want a slash and dash dog, you want a dog that will take a bite and work it. You want a dog that is not afraid to attack a person.
> 
> Not many people have the need for a personal protection dog. Not many people have even seen one. They are very few good ones. If you do have one you will know what a safe feeling really is.


Any recommendations?


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## pancho (Oct 23, 2006)

TriWinkle said:


> Any recommendations?


The only breed I used was pit bulls.
I wouldn't suggest them unless you have experience with them.


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## Rock (Jan 5, 2009)

Pops2 said:


> The kind of guy that NEEDS that bone crushing power is also the kind of guy that WILL kill your dog. To have that level of force they have to commit to a full bite. I've owned, trained & handled dogs for almost 35 years. I've been bitten by bulldogs, cur dogs, a heeler, GSDs & Mals, not that sleeve crap but real bites. The dogs that I caught, manhandled & could have killed were the ones that committed to a full hard bite. BTW even with 90-100# dogs, none EVER crushed bone, some hairline fractures but no crushing. In fact the most significant & debilitating injuries were tears & pulls to the muscles, tendons & ligaments from the dogs' thrashing.
> But I'm not the average person. The average person is intimidated by the presence of a dog of any real size and will become fully committed to flight at the first contact. Anyone who doesn't is probably going to help your dog give his life for you (hopefully while you're getting the gun).


 Good job, whats your name, who did ya work for when training these dogs without proper protection gear?


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## Rock (Jan 5, 2009)

pancho said:


> The only breed I used was pit bulls.
> I wouldn't suggest them unless you have experience with them.


 That is close to the top of my list game dedication and determination is a better than fair swap out for raw size.


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## TriWinkle (Oct 2, 2011)

Just to clarify, I already have two American Bulldogs, but they'll both be ten this year and their best years are behind them...They are good dogs, but don't do well in this TX heat.


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## hiddensprings (Aug 6, 2009)

I've used Anatolians for livestock guarding purposes for years and love them. Mine, however, never leave their goats/cows. They are intimidating to strangers and bark like crazy if they do not know the person. But their job is with their goats. I don't doubt they keep bad folks from considering bad stuff, but I am not 100% sure they'd leave their goats to help me. So, I have/had a separate person protector. For my companion, I just lost my "mutt" (mixed breed, rescue) who would stick with me 100% of the time. He was my protector. He needs to be replaced, but I'm not ready yet. :Bawling:


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## horsepoor21 (Mar 14, 2007)

My Kangal has definitely been exposed to all of our livestock but I got him basically as as a family protection dog (my husband works in the oilfields and is gone for a month at a time ) so Deavor is the dog I keep up by the house . People do not get out of their cars when he is out there . All of my children know that is something bad is outside ,run for Deavor . He will protect them from anything , be it an intruder , a nasty cow or donkey , coyotes . etc . Once , coyotes started yippin and yappin , our Maremma took off down the driveway after them , Deavor grabbed 2 of my little kids by their snowpant straps and drug them into his dog house . It was hilarious ! The then stood in front of the door and wouldn't let them out .

He's a little too protective sometimes . My black mouth cur has a bad habit of jumping on me when he's excited and Deavor cannot stand that and will attack him if he does it . 

I will not let my Kangal loose when friends or family are visiting . He is so protective I am afraid he will take play fighting seriously and I just don't want to take that chance . But we hardly ever have visitors so it's not a huge inconvenience to us .

Hope that helps some .


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## Pops2 (Jan 27, 2003)

Rock said:


> Good job, whats your name, who did ya work for when training these dogs without proper protection gear?


It wasn't bite training, it was real live bites. One GSD was a fear biter that belonged to my in laws. At more than 90# he had the hardest bite & mildly fractured my right ulna. His "attack" lasted about 2 seconds before I pinned him to the ground & choked him unconscious. Had a smaller military GSD & a couple of Mals do undirected & redirected bites. That GSD was smart enough not to commit. The Mals committed and got their clocks cleaned. One got my arm, tore some hide & caused some soft tissue injury. I stunned it w/ a punch to the neck then pried him off. I hung onto his bottom jaw while I kicked him repeatedly. When he hid behind his handler. The other Mal that committed went for my leg and broke my "tactical knee pad." I hit him w/my Kevlar & then kicked him until he hid behind his handler (who took umbrage so I kicked him too). Had a couple other Mals take one hit bites. The heeler was my dad's and hit my leg when I went to get a tool out of his truck. He wouldn't commit and I couldn't catch him so he actually tagged me a few times before my Pop called him off. The curs all got me when I waded in a hog or bear bay. None of the TRULY game bulldogs ever got me because I was careful & well supervised. Other "gamebred" bulldogs got me while legging a hog. Hitting didn't do anything for that just choking/suffocating to near unconscious so they could be pried off. The longest lasting & most damaging bite I ever took was from my own curXbulldog. Turned out he had a brain tumor. He committed, did a lot of shaking me by the arm, I got hold of his bottom jaw and shook me by that arm at first. Eventually I got control and used my weight to suffocate him. There was only a little tearing of my skin but the soft tissue damage was so bad I couldn't raise my arms over my chest for a month. It was three months before I could do pull ups. 6 years later it still hurts when I do pull ups. All of the Mals & the small GSD were smaller than my jack dog by 10-15#. All bit harder but none had the strength to sling me around like he did so none did as much damage.
All of this has taught me that the dog's job is to buy me time to resolve the conflict as I see fit and not to do the job for me.


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## motdaugrnds (Jul 3, 2002)

Horsepoor, I loved that story about your Deavor taking your kids to his house to protect them. That is exactly the dog families need...in my opinion! It seems the more I read, the more I believe "any" dog with protective inclinations can be trained to guard whatever you want them to if trained at a young age. I'm leaning heavily toward a Kangal and/or Kangal mix. I would want the Kangal to guard my goats and sleep with them; however, my place is only 6 acres and I'm with the animals the majority of the time. This encourages me to believe a Kangal would bond with me too.


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## copperhead46 (Jan 25, 2008)

I dont really think you can get a dog that will be a livestock guard and a yard dog too. If they are protecting the stock they have to have their loyalties there. The best family guards I ever had were either a German Shepard and I also had 2 Chows that were the best. Chows protect their territory and all within it. Thats why they attack neighbor kids because they see them as an intruder.


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## terradura (Mar 19, 2012)

copperhead46 said:


> Thats why they attack neighbor kids because they see them as an intruder.


Somehow that doesn't sell me on chows!


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## Pops2 (Jan 27, 2003)

terradura said:


> Somehow that doesn't sell me on chows!


Depends, how much do you dislike the neighbor kids?


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## motdaugrnds (Jul 3, 2002)

Sorry, but any dog of whatever breed that attacks small children is not a dog I would want protecting my home!


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## pancho (Oct 23, 2006)

motdaugrnds said:


> Sorry, but any dog of whatever breed that attacks small children is not a dog I would want protecting my home!


That is the reason there are so many different breeds of dogs.
People should be able to find a breed they like and one that will work for them.
Personally, I want a guard dog that will protect my property from anything, including kids.
My neighbor feels different. That is why his house has been broken into several times and the windows of his shop keep being broken out.


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## Whisperwindkat (May 28, 2009)

TriWinkle said:


> Any recommendations?


I am partial to Rhodesian Ridgebacks. Have had several and each one has been a great dog. We now have a young bullmastiff that is in training and so far we are impressed with him. Will be taking him soon for an evaluation with a Schutzund trainer. I think he will do well. He has done well with his focus and basic obedience training. Still working on the focused heel though. Blessings, Kat


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## wendle (Feb 22, 2006)

double post


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## bricned (Jul 3, 2006)

Opinions are like elbows we all have a couple. Being 75 plus years old I have
had and worked with various breeds throughout my life. I have found that I!am
better off getting a dog that is bred for the work you want done. Then in any any
breed theres some that want measure up and others that will excel at their given duties. Carefully evaluation and selection can save you a lot of trouble. I now
have two livestock guard dogs a Great Pyrenees plus an Anatolian with my sheep. For my shops and home I have two German Shepard and one Belgian
Malinois which works great for me.


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## earthkitty (Mar 3, 2011)

I looked at Kangals and Anatolians, and settled on Anatolians. From my research it seemed to me that Kangals are more intense than Anatolians, and would take a much more experienced handler, although Anatolians need a firm hand too. Kangals also need more room than 6 acres, I would think, as their guarding style is to go out and find the threat and eliminate it, rather than wait for the threat to approach. You would either have to let them do that, or have a MIGHTY fence. I only have 18 acres, so didn't want a Kangal to go out and find my neighbor's dog, or scare the crap out of them, or worse.

If you are interested in Kangals, monstermalak is a member here, also has a website of that same name. He is in Texas.


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## TriWinkle (Oct 2, 2011)

wendle said:


> This is opposite what many think a lgd should be. It is so important to socialize, socialize when raising a lgd. I could never bear the thought of one of my lgds attacking a child or any person for that matter. They are intended as a coyote deterrent, not a man killer. I never enjoy hearing about children being killed by dogs.
> I know this is a guard dog forum, but at the top of this thread it is about Kangals vs Anatolians. One of which is on some breed ban lists already.


Which breed is on the breed ban list and where is this list so I can view it? I've honestly never heard of that.


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## wendle (Feb 22, 2006)

nevermind


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## Pops2 (Jan 27, 2003)

TriWinkle said:


> Which breed is on the breed ban list and where is this list so I can view it? I've honestly never heard of that.


Caucasian ovtchartkas were originally LGDs that were converted to general guard dogs and because some folks sold them to idiots they have been targeted in some places. Also the Central Asian sheperd & ovtchartka for similar reasons. Plus some places ban all dogs over a certain size and don't make exceptions for labs or goldens or whatever.


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## TedH71 (Jan 19, 2003)

Google Fila Brasilero.


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## pappy (Apr 8, 2013)

There seems to be some confusion here. What we call Anatolians here in the states are called Kangals in Turkey, where they are from. The term Anatolian Shepherd actually refers to many breeds of herding dogs of the Anatolian region of Turkey. The Anatolian we have here is a slightly watered down version of the Kangal of Turkey. The whole Anatolian-Kangal debate can get a little heated at times. Turks take the breeding of their Kangals very serious. And the ones in Turkey tend to be larger. 

As far as having one as a family guard. These dogs have been bred to watch over and protect their family (herd) without any supervision from a human. Which mean they are bred to be very independent thinkers and problem solvers. This is what makes them not for everyone. They need a firm hand from a early age. It also means they are very good at evaluating degrees of danger and as the degree of danger increases so does the degree of their response. We had a Anatolian that we lost last year to bone cancer. She was very protective of my wife. Women didn't get much of a reaction from her. Men were a different story. I noticed early on that the bigger and stronger they were the more protective she was. We hope to be getting another one soon. She was a great dog. Hope I haven't said too much. Also here are a couple of links. The first one is what got me interested in Anatolians. It was written by the lady who first brought these dogs out of Turkey.

http://www.anatolianshepherd.cc/5_minutes.htm

http://www.mysticasds.com/aboutasds.htm


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## Pops2 (Jan 27, 2003)

pappy said:


> There seems to be some confusion here. What we call Anatolians here in the states are called Kangals in Turkey, where they are from. The term Anatolian Shepherd actually refers to many breeds of herding dogs of the Anatolian region of Turkey. The Anatolian we have here is a slightly watered down version of the Kangal of Turkey. The whole Anatolian-Kangal debate can get a little heated at times. Turks take the breeding of their Kangals very serious. And the ones in Turkey tend to be larger.
> 
> As far as having one as a family guard. These dogs have been bred to watch over and protect their family (herd) without any supervision from a human. Which mean they are bred to be very independent thinkers and problem solvers. This is what makes them not for everyone. They need a firm hand from a early age. It also means they are very good at evaluating degrees of danger and as the degree of danger increases so does the degree of their response. We had a Anatolian that we lost last year to bone cancer. She was very protective of my wife. Women didn't get much of a reaction from her. Men were a different story. I noticed early on that the bigger and stronger they were the more protective she was. We hope to be getting another one soon. She was a great dog. Hope I haven't said too much. Also here are a couple of links. The first one is what got me interested in Anatolians. It was written by the lady who first brought these dogs out of Turkey.
> 
> ...


You are mistaken. The kangal is a rustic landrace breed from turkey. The Anatolian is a created breed made in the USA & Britain by mixing various Turkish breeds (mostly kangal & ahkbash) with mongrels brought from turkey by an Air Force couple.
The Turks also get very offended by Brits & Americans presuming to known more about Turkish dog breeds than the Turks themselves. The Brit & American insistence that the various Turkish breeds are just varieties within one breed is both arrogant & ignorant. Using that logic the fox, jack Russell, Lakeland, bedlington, Manchester, Sealyham, patterdale & staffy bull are all just varieties of one breed of English terrier and interbreeding them doesn't make them mongrels. Of the few Turks that consider the ASD a breed, most consider it an American breed.


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## JasonK (Apr 6, 2013)

Check out Akitas. We have one and she is AWESOME!! They don't bark unless something is wrong. Problem being she will kill anything animal that you have not trained her with. She killed a healthy 1 year old deer in our back yard, rabbits, possum and birds. She has also attacked other dogs, when people wouldn't listen to me to stop approaching her. They would say don't worry it is fine as I am reeling my dog in to a collar hold. The kids have poked at her, tried to ride her, pull her tail, etc. and she has never attacked. When they would cry as babies she would come and get us or go to their crib and pace. She has proven herself twice. Once when a person was on drugs and approached the end of our driveway in the suburbs. Only my wife was home. The dog was trying to crash through the window and get at him. She called me and I said let the dog loose if he continues up the drive. She worried that the dog would get hurt. I told her I doubt it but it will buy her time for the police to arrive. She called police and all was taken care of. Another time, a strange man came to the door and wanted to "use the phone" our Akita moved in front of my wife and gave this look of death, no sound and the backed up and said that he could get help elsewhere and took off.
Pros - will die for you, good wth kids, intimidating, endless good
cons - natural animal agressiveness that will not be totally train out of them.


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## HayBabies (Feb 27, 2013)

Try looking at a well bred Doberman. They were/are bred to protect people. They have a short coat for living indoors, and tend to behave in the house. The tails are docked. Won't be knocking things over with it. Come in a few colors. We have always had one. They have been wonderful for our family.


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## motdaugrnds (Jul 3, 2002)

I checked out the Akitas. Looks like a great family guard dog!!


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## B.D.WAX (Feb 9, 2013)

Another Kangal breeder is www.rockmountiankangal.com after talking to him today this will be the breeder that I choose to buy from he is very passionate about the breed. From what I read and have been informed of about Kangals is they are very protective of everything they deem as theirs on the farm from chickens to cows and even baby sheep they will not hurt them but anything that does try to harm then then that is whole diffrent story.they are born with inherent instinct to protect. I was also told that they are extremely good with children and family. Again I will be buying one or possibly two to protect my family animals and property.


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## B.D.WAX (Feb 9, 2013)

OOPS www.rockymountiankangals.com


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## o&itw (Dec 19, 2008)

He never had much of a chance to protect animals.... sort pf liked playing with them though.

For several years I didn't think he was much of a threat to anyone unless he stepped on your toes. 

I did see him pick up a small (but full grown) German Sheppard by the shoulders and shake him like a rag. 

Then there was the afternoon that a drunk biker came into the yard where my four year old son was playing. He got between my son and the guy. I have never seen a dog growl more and be ready for any attack then that day and I think he would have if they guy had taken another step. Luckily I got out into the yard before I found out if he would have or not. I'm not sure that I had ever growl in the previous 3 years we had him. (BTW, I have nothing against motorcycle riders... I was one myself at the time)

He was a cross between a St Bernard and a Australian Shepard. I guess he got all the size from his mom as he was St. Bernard size. 

That was years ago.... wish we still had him... He was the best dog we ever had.....uh... except if there was a ***** somewhere within a 1/2 mile.... he tended to run through picket fences.:bash:


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## motdaugrnds (Jul 3, 2002)

BDWax, that link doesn't work either.


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## terradura (Mar 19, 2012)

o&itw said:


> Then there was the afternoon that a drunk biker came into the yard where my four year old son was playing. He got between my son and the guy. I have never seen a dog growl more and be ready for any attack then that day and I think he would have if they guy had taken another step.
> 
> *He was a cross between a St Bernard and a Australian Shepard. I guess he got all the size from his mom as he was St. Bernard size. *


Buck, the dog in Call of the Wild, was half St. Bernard and half Scotch Collie, so he may have been like your dog.


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## Pops2 (Jan 27, 2003)

terradura said:


> Buck, the dog in Call of the Wild, was half St. Bernard and half Scotch Collie, so he may have been like your dog.


You do know that story was made up, right?


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## terradura (Mar 19, 2012)

Oh... Like the jackalope, I thought it was for real!

Nevertheless, I always thought it would be interesting to see a dog of the same mix as Buck was supposed to be.


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## anita_fc (May 24, 2008)

What is your setup like? Will the dog be within a fence or loose? If I could have only one of our eight dogs, it would be the Great Pyrenees or the Akbash. We also have a German Shepherd and shelties. The Akbash are a Turkish relative of Kangal and Anatolian, and they are a lot more 'serious' than the Pyrs. Both breeds bark A LOT... that is their guarding style... but the Akbash are just more convincing. (Actually, GSDs and Shelties are plenty noisy too. But you MUST have fences for LGD breeds, because they will create their own perimeter otherwise, no matter what your legal property boundaries are.

If you have no livestock, I too would look at other working breeds. Rottweilers can be a very good choice for a family dog if you seek out a responsible breeder. Even Labs and Chesapeakes make good family protectors.

Anita Crafton
Retired dog trainer
Hansen, Idaho


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## Allen15 (Apr 18, 2013)

If you have room for them, Great Danes can make excellent guard dogs for children, and I'm told they are very intimidating (by others, since I have gotten 2 of them).

They will bond to your family, and fiercely guard against any "invaders", but 99% of the time, their size is enough to deter anyone with bad intent, even if they are vision impaired 

They are also very well behaved (ours are) with people in public, and very gentle with other children, even strangers, but still very protective of space they've accepted as their own (like our vehicles).

Ours are both rescues, but one had a major vision impairment, so she tends to attack other dogs not in her pack (don't recommend you get one of those), but the other is frequently complemented on his behavior in public or visiting others, but will still be a holy terror if he feels his 'pack' is being threatened.

They will need some space, and the happy tail can cause welts, but I've not had any dogs that were more eager to please, or more loving of their family.

(They were originally bred to hunt boar, and tend to have a high prey drive, so I wouldn't consider letting them guard livestock)


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## CathyGo (Apr 26, 2013)

If you want a dog that will break your heart and your wallet get a Great Dane. Beautiful loving dogs but their genetic problems and special medical needs could fill a whole page up easily. Until the Great Dane breeders stop breeding all the "medical marvels" because they're a pretty harlequin I couldn't suggest them to anyone.


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## Allen15 (Apr 18, 2013)

Get two of them -- they're quite social creatures 

I know that the 2 I got each have their own issues, which are different, as these are my first 2, and they were both rescues, I don't know how my experiences will compare to the breed in general.

The first one we got at 9.5 months of age is a small Harlequin with few spots, so folks often ask if he is deaf. He's not, and has excellent hearing & eyesight (too good for his own good, really), but he's so grain allergic that he gets hives from using oatmeal-based shampoo. Once we figured out his gut issues, we switched over to feeding raw, and other than that, we couldn't really hope to have gotten a better dog for temperament or personality.

The 2nd one we got was about 5 months older than the first, but we didn't get her until 6 months after we'd had the first one. We weren't looking specifically for Great Danes either time (We're more partial to Newfoundlands/St. Bernards), but each time, these were the ones that needed rescuing... She doesn't have any allergies that we've been able to determine, but she was grotesquely underweight when we first got her, had a few parasites, and a horrible coat.

We're told she was a stray that was picked up out-of-state, and was at a high-kill shelter that was trying to find an alternative to killing her and several others. We were already looking for a suitable companion for the first one, and she just showed up, fitting the bill conveniently. She started eating raw with us, because it was not deemed practical to have 2 different diets for them, or have anything the first couldn't eat as a temptation.

We've now had her almost exactly a year, and she looks gorgeous, full of energy, with a vibrant coat BUT along the way, we've found out that she has severe hypoplasia of the optic nerves, so in English, it means she only has peripheral vision, not central vision as a birth defect, so it won't degenerate, but it won't get better either. She was not learning hand signals, or able to catch treats/food that was thrown at her from the front, so we had her tested. She is much more dog-agressive due to her poor vision, but we adjust for that (I don't recommend getting a blind dog for those who aren't up to the labor of love, but someone's gotta do it...).

She has vision problems, He has gut/allergy issues, they're both very happy, active, and otherwise healthy, but i don't know how representative of the breed that is, since these are my first 2, & I'd never thought I'd have been a Dane owner 18 months ago.

If you get them from a reputable breeder, I suspect you can avoid most, if not all of the health issues, but both of mine were cast-offs, so I got what needed saving at the time, & I wouldn't trade them for the world. I figure now that I've learned so much about dog food, no matter which dogs I ever have in the future, I'm going to feed them raw, because I really didn't like what they put into dog food these days, so that part is a wash, no matter which breed I got. Beyond that, they don't really have, nor do I expect them to have any other health issues that will be an on-going expense.

I've been told by a holistic veterinarian that many of the later health issues that dogs will suffer from are preventable with a good diet from the start, and without such, the giant breeds will tend to show wear sooner, be more susceptible to cancer, etc.

No matter which dog you get, please feed them what is healthy for them, and they will repay you with a long happy, healthy & active life.

Their Facebook page is public, & is at:
https://www.facebook.com/pages/Goliath-the-Great-Dane/313956438635870


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## Royal.T.Yak (Apr 20, 2012)

B.D.WAX said:


> Another Kangal breeder is www.rockmountiankangal.com after talking to him today this will be the breeder that I choose to buy from he is very passionate about the breed. From what I read and have been informed of about Kangals is they are very protective of everything they deem as theirs on the farm from chickens to cows and even baby sheep they will not hurt them but anything that does try to harm then then that is whole diffrent story.they are born with inherent instinct to protect. I was also told that they are extremely good with children and family. Again I will be buying one or possibly two to protect my family animals and property.


I know this breeder personally, and have been to his ranch/met his dogs. They are incredible at their given tasks! He knows his stuff, and I highly recommend him and his dogs to anyone looking for real Kangals and Boz Shepherds.

I lean toward the Boz because of their thicker bone structure and their temperament. Both breeds are very dutiful in their given jobs, whatever that may be- so long as they are properly exposed to what their job IS.


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## motdaugrnds (Jul 3, 2002)

I'm learning about feeding raw to my Karakachan puppy; but my grown lab will not eat the raw meat...yet. Is there a set amount of this raw that a dog should get each day, like how many pounds per the dog's weight?


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## Pops2 (Jan 27, 2003)

motdaugrnds said:


> I'm learning about feeding raw to my Karakachan puppy; but my grown lab will not eat the raw meat...yet. Is there a set amount of this raw that a dog should get each day, like how many pounds per the dog's weight?


Maintenance on an adult is about 2% and a bit more for growing dogs. General guideline, actual amounts will vary with seasons, activity level & metabolism.


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## ONG2 (Sep 22, 2010)

Royal.T.Yak said:


> I know this breeder personally, and have been to his ranch/met his dogs. They are incredible at their given tasks! He knows his stuff, and I highly recommend him and his dogs to anyone looking for real Kangals and Boz Shepherds.
> 
> I lean toward the Boz because of their thicker bone structure and their temperament. Both breeds are very dutiful in their given jobs, whatever that may be- so long as they are properly exposed to what their job IS.


While I have never met Vose we have exchanged many a email and pictures of our Boz Shepherds. For what it is worth I like the guy, and I know that he has some very good bloodlines in his dogs.


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## Allen15 (Apr 18, 2013)

The best advice on raw food I've found was from the book:

"Real Food for Healthy Dogs & Cats" by Dr. Karen Becker, DVM & Beth Taylor

whom I've since met both of them, and they've met my dogs too, but the book did us a great deal of good 5 months before I had the pleasure of meeting them. It has formulas & recipes, plus it explains what & why, although it really doesn't cover dogs over 90 lbs as well.

We found out that this author has an animal clinic about 50 miles away from us, so I scheduled a visit to ask about adjustments for larger dogs - but if we continue in this direction, we probably should start a new thread about raw feeding, & not further hijack this one.  :hijacked:



motdaugrnds said:


> I'm learning about feeding raw to my Karakachan puppy; but my grown lab will not eat the raw meat...yet. Is there a set amount of this raw that a dog should get each day, like how many pounds per the dog's weight?


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## motdaugrnds (Jul 3, 2002)

Ooops, yes please Allen15 do that.


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## lonelyfarmgirl (Feb 6, 2005)

I wanted to jump in and say I have both a great dane and a dobermann and a pitbull now and have owned many pitbulls in my life.

My dane is 9 1/2 and as healthy and energetic as any other dog, although she spends 3/4 of her day sleeping. When she's up, she's moving. Except for when she ate something rotten about 6 months ago and it made her really ill, she hasn't been sick a day in her life. No wobbles, no stomach twisting, nothing.

She behaves impeccably in public so long as nobody touches her. She is aggressive and will and has bitten. She is an outstanding property protector and I will miss her terribly when she's gone. I expect she'll just be dead someday.

Our pitbull is the sweetest most loving little thing you've ever seen. I've owned many many pits in my life, and some outstanding old school bloodlines. They are worthless guard dogs in my opinion. In the course of my 'pit' years, my house was robbed on 3 separate occasions. Each time, pitbulls in the house. 

My dobermann was born for personal protection work. What I would GIVE for a shutzhund club near me. He lives and breathes guard, attack, chase, bite, trail. He is so 'stuck' to me mentally and emotionally, I can't tie him out and walk away. He howls and screams and doesn't stop. Hubby says he has a short umbilical cord. He is very friendly and loves everyone, but I woe the day someone ever dares come at me with anger and violence on their mind. 

He also may have short hair but that means nothing. He is happiest in cold weather. 10 below zero, blizzard, pouring rain, whatever. 70 and sunny, he's a lump in the shade. 
I should have named him rocket ship, or never ending explosion, or 'goes really fast'. 

Outstanding personal guardian, but I would never place one of these in a house with kids under 12.


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