# What I did yesterday afternoon (lots of pitures)



## Marchwind (May 10, 2002)

Yesterday afternoon a group of ladies from my guild went to another guild members farm to see her Shetland sheep. I think I mentioned her and her breeding program here a few weeks ago. She is breeding for the old British Shetlands.Someone asked me what that was all about and I don't think I answered you. I asked Sabrina how to answer the question and she blew out a lot of air and basically said, oh boy, you just opened up a big can of worms. So I will post here what I know about her breeding program but I really don't want this to turn into a bid debate here. I'm sure it probably has been debated over on the sheep forum.

So here is the explanation I have, maybe Katherine can chime in since she has spent so much time over there with the British sheep. My understanding is that the "true"Shetland sheep are a single coated breed. Yes, there are some double coats within the breed. Anyway, the single coated Shetland has a very fine soft coat with a lot of crimp, there are no guard hairs. Apparently when the breed was being introduced into North America it was so rare that all the offspring were kept like gold. No discrimination was made to specifics of the breed. They were all precious. So as it seems with most animals that get over breed and bred indiscriminately you get defects and less desirable traits with in the breed. The double coat is one of these traits. No remember this is what I took away from my conversation with my friend. I think she said that the history is well documented on the Shetland website, I don't have a link, sorry. I also apologise if I have offended anyone that was never my intent. This is my take on one persons breeding program and what they are trying to achieve.

So, we went there yesterday, I have pictures. I tried to get pictures of the type of fleece she is breeding for, a picture is so much better that anything I could write. She had babies too and oh they were so cute. There was a pair of twins that had been born that morning and two other sets of twins that were a few days old. I didn't get too many pictures of the babies my batteries ran out 

This is the ewe pen









More ewes









A ewe with a wreath of hay









This is Unicorn one of her 4 rams. Isn't he magnificent? I think he know he is good looking.









This is a close-up of a fleece from a ram. I'm going to try to get this fleece, it's blue.









This is the only baby picture I got. One of my friends is holding her.


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## gone-a-milkin (Mar 4, 2007)

Oh how lovely! It looks like you had a fun day, Marchwind. 

I can see why you would like that blue fleece!

Whenever I look at sheep, I am always amazed that anyone could ever get all the VM out of those coats! It must be a lot of work...

+1 for the adorable lamb photo.


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## MTDeb (Feb 20, 2003)

Marchwind, that's how I understood it too from Shetland breeders I've talked to. There's Shetland sheep FROM the Shetland Islands and Shetland sheep, a sheep breed. The Shetland from the Shetland islands are descendants of the original breeding stock and do not have the original native characteristics bred out of them whereas the Shetland sheep breed have the characterisics of Shetland sheep but are not true Shetland sheep from the Shetland Islands. 

Another characteristic that has been bred out of the original Shetland sheep is the ability to shed their fleeces. That's why some of the Shetlands you see don't do this. 

But, like Marchwind said, this is what I've heard and how I understand it and I could be wrong. 

Love the pictures!! Those are beautiful sheep!


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## Marchwind (May 10, 2002)

Shearing day is next weekend and I'm hoping to go. That blue fleece is a new ram she got and last fall. He wasn't cooperating at modeling his fleece for me. I'll have a better idea of how much VM is actually in the fleece when they are sheared. From what I could see it isn't totally embedded, mostly surface stuff that will shake out.


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## Pigeon Lady (Apr 4, 2004)

Lovely pictures! 

I love the look in that little lamb's eye. Like "Hey, there's something familiar about this scarf!"

Are Shetlands fairly docile? I'm (very) tentatively thinking about getting a few sheep.

Pauline


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## MullersLaneFarm (Jul 23, 2004)

That blue is beautiful!!! I'd love to try true Shetland.


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## Marchwind (May 10, 2002)

Pigeon Lady I'm not sure Shetlands are any more or less docile that other breeds. I would tend to say they tend to be more wild. But they are a small breed and easy to cuddle when they are small. I suppose if you get them young you can make them as tame as you like. The rams you do NOT want to tame or cuddle, they can be dangerous. We saw that first hand with one of the rams he was nice enough and wanted lots of attention and if he didn't get what he wanted he would butt you really hard. That was not a ram that she raised, the person she got those rams from (not the two pictured) used to cuddle and and be very friendly with all his sheep. But I suppose rams in general can be dangerous.

Cyndi, shearing day has been moved up to Thursday morning. Do you want me to ask her about selling a fleece to you? She spins but does nothing with want she spins, she does not knit or crochet or weave. She just like the sheep and perfecting her program. I don't know how much she will sell them for but I will ask for you. My job is going to be skirting and bagging the fleeces  I'm taking my camera too.


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## Katherine in KY (May 11, 2002)

I tried to post earlier, but for some reason I couldn't do so and lost my long post  At any rate, Marchwind, what a great day you must have had, and the pictures are great, especially that little lamb. Your account of breeding Shetlands in N. America is interesting. My understanding of them getting to Shetland is that they were brought by the Vikings a thousand years ago and were probably double coated. But over the centuries the double coat was bred out as people wanted finer and finer wool. Then in the modern era in Shetland (19th century onwards) they started crossing them with meatier sheep so they could make more from their meat sales. A lot of crofters also eliminated the traditional colors because the wool board wanted only white wool. Today, though, there is a group of shepherds trying to bring the traditional colors back. And there are some flocks of more or less "pure" Shetland sheep. Almost all of the sheep I've clipped on Fair Isle had the rise (break)in their fleece where the new growth starts, which makes it easy to clip. In fact, if the sheep aren't clipped early enough they'll roo themselves by rubbing against fence posts. Personally I think there's nothing nicer than spinning a fine Shetland fleece with lots of crimp--you just need to flick the locks and spin away. On the other hand I bought a lovely Shetland fleece from a shepherd in Kentucky without examining it really closely. It turned out to have large sections that had kemp in it that makes it scratchy; the rest is very soft. March, that blue ram fleece looks gorgeous, but there's vm in all her fleeces, something you don't find much in Shetland, especially among the sheep that are just left to graze wherever--lots of peat dust, but no burrs, etc.
The other thing you don't see a lot of in Shetland are sheep with black faces and legs. I'm no authority on Shetland sheep, just a curious observer. Enjoy your shearing day, March!


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## betty modin (May 15, 2002)

The little dark ewe on her own looks so much like my Moira! 

I'll bet you had a great day. I hope you get that ram fleece-you'll love it. I can almost feel it from the picture. It should spin up into a very special yarn.

The breeder I got my shetlands from breeds for fleece, true type and personality. She will send anything that doesn't meet her standard for all three to "freezer camp". And any ram lambs that meet all three but don't throw great lambs become wethers quickly! 

I'd forgotten all about kemp and guard hairs because my little ewes don't have any. BUT all that vm does get a bit tiring to get out. The fleece is so soft that all that stuff clings to it. I shake, pick and sweat over the fleeces before, during and after I wash them...then pick the rest out during carding, spinning and finally during knitting. It's worth it though-the finished product always pleases me. My two black fleeces are the hardest because the fleece type-the wool is more crimpy. The two fawn fleeces are easier because there's more lanolin and the fleece is more silky than crimpy.

When I went to pick out my lambs, the breeder and I walked through her ewe and lamb herd and then through her ram herd. All of her sheep followed us and most tried to get petted-except for the rams, who tolerated our presence. If you want docile and friendly sheep of any breed you need to find a breeder that thinks that's an important thing to breed for-then pick the friendliest lambs you can find from that breeder-you'll be pleased with the results.

What a great day! betty


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## Marchwind (May 10, 2002)

Katherine that is very interesting. I'm going to copy what you wrote in to an email for my friend. I think she would be very interested to know what they are doing in Shetland. The blue ram's fleece she said does have a lot of vm in it and she suggested that I take another one that is very similar. Her fleeces are very clean from what I saw and the majority of the vm was just surface stuff (with the exception of those two rams she just got).

Katherine there is a name for that black face and black legs she calls it "katmoget"

Betty your breeder sounds just like my friend. Fleece and temperament. She really went into the importance of temperament when she was talking about the rams. She said that if the rams she just bought were her own she would cull them. But she said that she knows the guy she bought them from created the monsters. He own rams are friendly but respectful, as she said they should be.

I'm excited for Thursday.


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## bergere (May 11, 2002)

Those are really nice looking sheep Marchwind! Sounds like you had a good day visiting them.


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## Marchwind (May 10, 2002)

Here is the blog to my friend's farm. http://bostonlakefarm.blogspot.com/ There are more baby pictures there.


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## Katherine in KY (May 11, 2002)

Katherine there is a name for that black face and black legs she calls it "katmoget"

March, I'm delighted to put a real picture of one of those Shetland names on a sheep. When I go home I'll have to look at my poster of Shetland sheep--there are about 50 different types. The fact that you rarely see the black faces and legs in Shetland just goes to show that the older types are disappearing. Actually a few years ago there was some sort of tax-saving/buyout measure (can't remember the details) which resulted in a lot of elderly shepherds selling off their flocks many of which had the "truer" Shetland sheep.

OMG, just looked at your friend's blog. Those lambs are just too cute


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## Marchwind (May 10, 2002)

Katherine that is sad :Bawling:

The katmoget fleece is the one that is an almost blue fleece underneath. According to Sabrina it is actually the dominant color, I think that is what I understood her to say. I know her ram Unicorn, that really handsome guy, is white and only throws white lambs. She has a lot of info on her blog about what she is doing, you need to poke around a bit. She also has a ton of Shetland links.

Tomorrow I'm hoping I can get to play with the lambs a bit more. It sounds like it will be a beautiful day for shearing.

ETA: Katherine if you look on her blog you an see that she does have a ewe or two with the double coat and those babies will also have a double coat I believe. I know you can see that they have a different fleece even at a few days old. The other thing that she is breeding for is a polled sheep. She is wondering is the polled gene is connected to the single fleece.


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## MullersLaneFarm (Jul 23, 2004)

Marchwind said:


> Cyndi, shearing day has been moved up to Thursday morning. Do you want me to ask her about selling a fleece to you?


That would be most wonderful!!!!! Thanks Marchie! Happy Thursday to me!


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## Katherine in KY (May 11, 2002)

Susan, I see you were hugely helpful on shearing day  What did you come home with? It looks like the weather was perfect. Lucky you!


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## ajaxlucy (Jul 18, 2004)

How interesting about the Shetlands! I started reading more and found this:

http://www.shetland-sheep.org/pdf/The Need to Conserve Different Types of Shetland Sheep.pdf

..all about different types of Shetlands and breed conservation.

I wish I had a pair of expert eyes to look over my own flock and clue me in a bit more as to fleece type/quality. I've got long & wavy, shorter & crimpier, different colors, as well as horned ewes & polled ewes. I haven't had many sheep, but this year I've had almost all ewelambs born and need to make some decisions. Anyone want to come down and visit? 

WIHH, you sure you don't want a few Shetlands? I'll be in Minnesota in September and could bring you some soft lambswool (on the hoof).


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## Marchwind (May 10, 2002)

Lucy on my friend's blog she has a zillion links for Shetlands, if you look on the left side of the pictures and writing. I have two fleeces I got the day we did the shearing. If the sun ever comes out again I will get a picture of the crimp on this stuff, it is pretty unbelievable. Sabrina sent several samples in for micron testing. If you go to the thread on my sheep shearing day you an see some of her sheep.

It is really interesting isn't it? I find it very sad that the breed isn't being preserved better in it's home country.


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