# Doing a split trial



## AverageJo (Sep 24, 2010)

I had two hives (out of 4) overwinter for the first time this year. They seem to be going gangbusters, so I dug into one of them yesterday. I had left a honey super on them and it had been empty this spring. It's now quite full actually, which surprised me a bit. Took that off and set it aside. Started to check the frames in the top hive body. Nice half circle but very scattered pattern although there was capped honey on the outside, then pollen, then some capped brood. I only saw young larva on a couple of frames, so I'm hoping that there are eggs in some of the frames as well that they can build a queen cell out of. Didn't see any queen cells though there were a lot of drones. Placed those 10 frames in another box and we'll see if they build their own queen. Placed an empty hive body and frames on the original hive so they can start filling that as well. Placed the honey super back on and put the lid on it. It was getting late and the wind was picking up, so I didn't dig into the lower hive body to see if the queen had a better laying pattern in there. Wasn't impressed with the pattern in the upper box so I'm wondering if that queen is failing. I'll wait until next week and see if there's a better laying pattern in the newly installed frames. This is an experiment to see what happens. Seemed to be more bees than what you get in a package, so I doubt that any harm will be done other than set them back a bit. Hopefully the split hive will develop their own queen who will be a better layer. I'll check on them in a week to see which hive has the old queen and which is building queen cells. I guess I aught to put an empty hive body and frames on that split hive as well, just in case the queen was on one of those frames. :smack


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## TxGypsy (Nov 23, 2006)

You may want to go back into the nucleus you are hoping will make a queen in a few days and give them some more frames of eggs. The bees seem to be more confident of raising a new queen and are in less of a panic mode if they get newly laid eggs every 5 days or so until they start building queen cells. Also, they are very particular about the age of the egg they use to build queen cells from. If you don't introduce new eggs, they may not have the proper age of egg to work with.

I simply remove frames where there is no queen cell from the nucleus and exchange it for frames with newly laid eggs out of the parent hive. That way you aren't setting the parent hive back. However, I do make sure there is some capped brood in the nucleus so there will be nurse bees available to nurture the new queen.

Let us know how it goes!


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## AverageJo (Sep 24, 2010)

If it's been a couple of days and there's no queen cell being formed, I'll do the swap. Do I need to knock off the bees from the frames being swapped first or will they accept the bees that come in with it? As I don't really like the old queen's laying pattern, I might swap frames from another hive. But again, do I need to knock off the bees first?


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## alleyyooper (Apr 22, 2005)

I leave the bees on the frames but I mist them with a 1:1 vanalla ratio so they only have the vanalla scent.

 Al


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## AverageJo (Sep 24, 2010)

Is that 1:1 vanilla extract with water? Very interesting. Will give this a try. Thanks.


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## AverageJo (Sep 24, 2010)

Bummer... Went out and put the upper hive body on then sat down and watched the activity for a while. Lots of coming and going, but not a bit of pollen being brought in, so I think it's just robbing going on. Sigh... at least it was worth a try. I'll check it out again in a couple of days.


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## alleyyooper (Apr 22, 2005)

Yes that is 1:1 vanilla extract with water.
I buy mine at Gordon Food Service, Heard yesterday the price is going up due to a bad crop in India and Mexico. Glad I bouht enough for a couple years.
OH, keep the mix sealed up until you use it so it doesn't mold.

 Al


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## TxGypsy (Nov 23, 2006)

AverageJo said:


> If it's been a couple of days and there's no queen cell being formed, I'll do the swap. Do I need to knock off the bees from the frames being swapped first or will they accept the bees that come in with it? As I don't really like the old queen's laying pattern, I might swap frames from another hive. But again, do I need to knock off the bees first?


I've always brought in frames from the same hive, and when I do that there is no problem. Was the queen a good layer when she was young and is now getting spotty because she is getting old? If so, her genetics are ok. It's just age that is the problem(I can relate...lol) and I'd consider exchanging comb from the parent hive and not trying to introduce bees from a different hive that will smell wrong to the bees in your nucleus.


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## tom j (Apr 3, 2009)

"""" 1:1 vanilla extract with water.""" I did this last year and it went real good ..


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## TxGypsy (Nov 23, 2006)

Are y'all using real vanilla or artificial vanilla?


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## honeyrobber (Feb 16, 2012)

I have not purchased a queen in years. I split and recombine hives that are weak. I put the hive body I want a new queen made in in the old spot and the old queen goes to the new one. The reason is the soon to be new queen will take a month to lay eggs without young to feed they store more honey. The weakened old hive normally builds up fast enough to make a harvest as well. I got to get busy making hive bodies as it almost time for splits.


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## alleyyooper (Apr 22, 2005)

Artificial vanilla, the real stuff cost to much and it is also going to cost even more due to the bad crops in India and Mexico.

 Al


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## AverageJo (Sep 24, 2010)

Checked on the split I did. The original hive looks like I never touched it. It's just booming with bees in there! The split has a number of queen cells that are still capped, which would be about right time-wise. I may end up taking some brood from the parent hive next week once the upcoming rains stop. Might give the new queen a few more young bees while she's busy laying eggs.

This has gone so well that I'm going to split the other hive that overwintered. They were just a bit touchy today and I didn't bring smoke or syrup with me. So I'll do them next week when I check on the other hive as well.


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