# Money- keeping it and growing it and leveraging it?



## qtkitty (Apr 17, 2005)

My family has always been very tight lipped about money and asking is like pulling teeth. I have looked around the internet and most places want money for them to tell you about money or tell you the basics aka don't spend it dummy. 

There are so many different ways to keep money and try to grow what you have. What have you guys found that works? I am interested in growing what little money I have from snow flakes her and there into a snowball and eventually into a snowman/snowoman.

In the end I want to do 2 things: buy a 'new' car, buy a home with a few acres, and enough to do basic upgrades on that land(chicken coop, small barn, basic tools, ect) with the least amount of debit, but not saving til I am 50 either.

To me it's like a giant puzzle, which I still have pieces missing and maybe a few pieces from the wrong puzzle...


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## TxGypsy (Nov 23, 2006)

LOL....I'm going to tell you not to spend it as well 

I tend to always be a red fish in a pond full of blue fish. I'm a very young retiree(43). I retired when I was 35. No I didn't win the lottery. I learned how to save. 

First thing is....never pay interest...ever. Poor people pay interest while rich people earn it. Most folks just take it for granted that they will have a car payment or a house payment. I figured out that paying interest was a losing proposition at a young age thank goodness. It was even against my principles to pay rent! I have gone so far as to live in a tent at times to avoid paying rent. Needless to say I have been very committed to my philosophy.

Second. Use your windfalls. This takes discipline! Everyone gets a bit of unexpected money from time to time. Invest it. Make it work for you. Most people go and buy themselves a treat with it since it is 'extra' money.

Third. Live on less than you make and invest the difference. I have worked regular jobs.....flipping burgers, truck driver, barber, waitress, etc. but have almost always managed this....even if it was only by $5.

Make it a challenge to save the maximum amount of money possible. Believe it or not I kind of miss it. I love a good challenge!


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## qtkitty (Apr 17, 2005)

I agree on all three of those. Good advice.

I never have had a credit card and never want to, although people say it makes your credit better. It makes me nervous having debit.

The only debit I have are my student loans. My mom talked me into not paying towards my principal on student loans for years now, because of the benefit of getting back from the interest on your taxes. If I would have kept on my plan they would have been paid off by now.:banghead: So I am going to start putting money towards the principal again.

I know I have looked on paper at my incoming and outgoing money. I have the rudimentary plans :
1 emergency fund (little money that's easy and fast to get to that I will leave and not care how much its really earning...aka my own credit card haha)
2 higher interest savings account - FDIC of course(the banks around here have really low interest... I looked at my current bank account and the last dividends earned were in 2012 and it was 11cents. Seriously. Last year I earned more in a few months with a dinky amount of money than I have with my local bank. And if something bad happens I can access the money in a few days with no penalty.)

I know about CDs, funny thing is the interest for local banks on CDs is less than the higher interest savings account I have and they have stipulations.

My mom seems to be the biggest draw on my money. My daughter and I live with her. I have tried to talk to her about sitting down and figuring out what would be a decent portion of bills for me to pay, which was shot down (back to the closed mouthedness on finances... She doesn't want me to know how much she is really paying for things, but wants to complain about it). A few years ago I started getting groceries and it was out of control the lists I was sent with. Literally pay check to paycheck because of groceries which spoiled. Pet peeve of mine. I started getting it from both sides mom wanting more stuff and my grandma cause I got to much, with me in the middle thinking I am going crazy. I have put my foot down, although I still pay more than I want or should need to and hear complaining constantly from mom about not having things she needs to cook with(honestly though we could live a good long time before ever going hungry, because I buy shelf stable more than other items). And I am ranting.....breath lol. I have had people tell me to go rent ect, but I don't see that as a good solution just an easy out. I want to do what's best to give me solid footing for me and my daughter to have the best chance of thriving and make it so it would be hard to find myself living back at mom's. Love my mom dearly but y'all know what I mean I think.


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## RideBarefoot (Jun 29, 2008)

daveramsey.com

awesome and it works!


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## where I want to (Oct 28, 2008)

I think that getting something that you can build up is good. Like a house that needs some upgrading but is in a good location. It is not what you want but it has the bones to get you where you want. 
Then make it the best you can, improving it with a view to selling. Make it pretty and desirable. But don't invest in huge fancy additions or modifications. Just make it better.
Sell it and move on to the next one closer to what you want.
Someday you will get to where you want, then you invest more long term.


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## jwal10 (Jun 5, 2010)

A credit card is not a bad thing, the right one, used right. You can get things on sale that you don't have the cash today but do at pay day. You can get cash back. You can get a discount by using it. You do have to pay every dime before you are charged interest. It can actually teach people to save money but you have to be diligent. If you have the money, it is not debt, it is using what you have to get what you need, need, not want.

Save all you can and put a good down payment on a property that is a great value at a great interest rate, pay much less than rent and build more equity over time. Network. Look around, don't be afraid to ask about cheap properties but make sure it fits what you NEED, not want. Pick up pennies, dimes, quarters, tools, lumber to use on projects. Free is good. Grandma said "watch your pennies" someone else said if you watch your pennies the rest will take care of it's self.

Save instead of spending, much easier and money in the bank doesn't cost money (yet). Stuff costs money AND can cost to keep up. Make do with the least expensive car needed, things can be cheaper, insurance, used tires, cheaper oil, cheaper gas (not the high performance stuff). Many times less is more.

Don't buy anything over $10.00 on the spur of the moment unless you really need it and can save money IF you buy it now. Think about it, put it on the list of things you really need and in the order of need. The more it gets moved down the less you really need it. Many times I find I really didn't need it after all....James


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## qtkitty (Apr 17, 2005)

Where I want to- The area I am in buying in hopes to sell later is a very risky proposition. People who have money to buy are vacationers or are building their own. The market isn't good I have heard people having their house on market for years and it not selling. I have seen a few sell at auction after banks took them back.

Jwal10- watching pennies is a good saying... Right now I have the cheapest car you can have.. I have had it going on 15 years. Its paid off, but it's finally acting up with parts that get you from a to b. 

So it is about time to get things in line to get a new one. When looking for a car I will be looking for the same things I did for the first one. My grandfather told me to look for a car that will work for what I will be doing for the next 10 years. I wasn't thinking about kids then, but granddad brought it up can you get a car seat in it, etc. I narrowed it to 3 then checked estimate of insurance to see which was cheapest. (If only used cars less than a year old were still that cheap sighs)

Next car will not be a clutch, which I learned you can't drive at all with a broken leg. LOL I figure if in the next 10-20 years if I get old and decrepit that would be helpful. What I want would be a car with a CD player...and cars now have them standard I believe. ( maybe USB to hook to mp3 since that's the way music is going, but that's an hey would be nice.


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## TnAndy (Sep 15, 2005)

qtkitty said:


> The only debit I have are my student loans. My mom talked me into not paying towards my principal on student loans for years now, *because of the benefit of getting back from the interest on your taxes.* If I would have kept on my plan they would have been paid off by now.:banghead: So I am going to start putting money towards the principal again.


Your mom bought into that line of foolish thinking about taxes that a lot of people have....that a tax deduction is a good thing. It isn't.

If you pay one dollar in interest, and save even 40 cents as a tax deduction (more likely it will be 15-20 cents), you are STILL OUT 60 CENTS you sent to a bank.

One would be far better off to pay the fool taxes, *and have the rest in your own pocket, *rather than a banker's pocket !I'm not opposed to borrowing money for large ticket items (home, car, business tools, etc)....but understand that paying them off as quickly as possible is the way to go.

For example, all other things being equal (interest rates, points, etc), I'd take a 30 year loan over a shorter term loan on a house every time. That commits you to the smallest payment....you never know, you might step in one of those holes life throws at you from time to time, and having a smaller payment just might keep you in the house.

BUT I'd have (and we did...paid off a 20yr loan on current place in 9yrs) the self discipline to pay extra along with each payment, and attempt to have the house paid for in 8-12yrs. You can literally save a fortune in interest by adding even a small amount to a payment from day one.


On growing money....the key is to earn as much as you can, and be TIGHT FISTED with what you earn.

Get a second job....part time or full time. You can 'get by' on a 40hr week....but add 20-30more hours a week to it for a while, and you'll get AHEAD.

Don't nickel and dime it away on stuff. Brown bag your lunch...you'll eat better and cheaper. Avoid eating out except as a rare treat. Do your own home maintenance as much as you can (learn how....very valuable skill). Avoid malls....avoid shopping as entertainment. Don't hang around people that like to nickel and dime their money away.....their behavior is catching.

Cell phone ? Do you really NEED a cell phone ? You have ANY idea how much productive time is wasted texting stupid, useless text messages ? Guess what....the world went thousands of years without them, quite fine. We could afford a truckload of them now....and I STILL DON'T HAVE ONE. IF we could get decent reception here, and the cost wasn't much more than my landline, I'd probably drop the land line and get one.....but that is the only way.

Smoke ? Quit. Stupid, nasty habit that will shorten your life, and you'll spend the price of a house up in smoke, literally.


Simply think about it every time you start to part with some money and ask yourself "IS this something I really need...or is it just something I want ?"

Getting ahead is more about the right type of thinking and attitude than anything else. People that have perpetual money problems often simply make poor money choices over and over and over. You got to break that cycle.


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## MoonRiver (Sep 2, 2007)

Unfortunately, the best way to make money these days is to not spend it. Use coupons, do without everything you can do without, watch for sales, etc. 

I have 2 credit cards that both give cash back. I pay in full every month and get about 2% cash back on purchases. I use an online bank that pays me to use it rather than a brick and mortar bank that charges me for the same services.

I keep emergency money in a savings account that pays almost 1% interest.


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## Terri (May 10, 2002)

Well, my stocks did badly and my CDs are only giving me a half percent interest. I decided to stick with what I understood better.

I save money in the kitchen by shopping at Aldi's once a month. Some of their staples- like noodles- cost 1/3 of what the other grocery stores charge. So I buy and store the noodles, jars of spices, and such. I also buy instant meals like cans of roast beef in gravy, and when I am too busy to cook I avoid the fast food places: instead I heat up the cans of food and I dump it over rice. I can fix a meal for 3 that way for $10, and it costs $25 to get enough burgers for people.

I also watch for when the things we use a lot of go on sale: when canned vegetables go on sale for 45 cents a can I buy extra and store them.

I also try to use all of my leftovers. Leftover veggies can go into another day's soup and leftover meat can be cut up small and hidden in spagetti sauce. 

Because I no longer pay full price for much of our groceries I save about $60 a month. That is the same as $720 a year.


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## qtkitty (Apr 17, 2005)

TnAndy said:


> For example, all other things being equal (interest rates, points, etc), I'd take a 30 year loan over a shorter term loan on a house every time. That commits you to the smallest payment....you never know, you might step in one of those holes life throws at you from time to time, and having a smaller payment just might keep you in the house.


This is the best advice I have ever heard and makes me feel good having that flexibility on my side!!! Get a 30year loan and pay it like 15 year loan. I had look at 15 year.

I have tried to research as much as I can to prepare, putting away money for me isn't hard, just have to keep others from spending it for me. I was thinking to save enough money to buy a brand new car out right, but I have found through research that you don't get the best deal that way anymore. Supposedly you can get better deals if you get a loan, but make sure that there is no penalty to pay off early. So I was thinking still save enough to pay for the car out right. Buy a car with a loan pay the loan on a payment plan for a few years to make self look better to get a mortgage. During that time save about what it would cost to buy a car again to use as the down payment and the basic upgrades to the property and beginning animals. Make sure that the mortgage doesn't have a huge penalty to pay early again.

As soon as the house closes pay off the car using the first saved money. Then its paid off and I don't have to worry some one can take it or worry about paying the bill. Then start trying to pay down the house. Having a 30 year mortgage in case, but paying a few payments ahead then paying a payment and towards the principal would give me a good bumper. I know bad things can happen and I try hard to booby trap proof myself.

The basic upgrades I want to save for would be for a chicken coop and run for 100 chickens (more chickens that starting with but big enough to grow into) thinking of starting with 12 laying hens more than I would need for eggs keeping in mind loss of chicks and poor layers. The run in case free range will not work due to neighbors or predictors. Movable would be preferable. I would also want fencing, barn, milking area, ect for goat's to milk. I would start out with one or two girls to see where I would want to go, but have the barn and fenced area be big enough for several more goats. And knowing I also want to think about a pig, but that would be in the future. Once I had been on the property a year or two to figure out where would be best to start an orchard, I would start planting that out. (Except blueberries if I get this done before my grandparents sell their place I want to get cuttings from them, because they are great producers. If they would sell after I will be asking if I can dig up the trees and replant them. I think the work would be with it!) I also want a good size garden, kitchen herb garden, 
a greenhouse, shed to house tools.

I know it sounds like I am over thinking this, but knowing what I would like to do let's me know how much land wise I will need in worst case scenario to make it work, then I don't get more than I need. There are always times when a deal could make it worth it(wooded with hard woods that draw loggers who would pay high dollar) but do I want to pay taxes on that for the rest of my life. I am thinking between 2 and 10 acres depending on slope and other geographic challenges. A big plus would be an existing pond or small creek, but these need buffer from the animals so adds unusable acres.

I also know I want land out of any town boundary and with no home association, but I want to be somewhere that has high speed internet available. Preferably cable, because I have heard bad things about satellite. This gives me the ability to telecommute if I would loose my current job. 

Also close to my current work unless I am not working there by then. This isn't hard I live in the country now, just more in town country. I have looked around to see what is currently available and there are several properties currently on the market that meet these requirements (don't know about the high speed internet, but meets other points) and has a house with minimum of 2bed1bath (3bed2bath would be preferable, because gives room to grow not seeing it happen, but if I would have another kid and it was a boy each would have a separate room)for between $80k and $130k. Who knows what the market holds in 5-6 years, but definitely doable as the cost of a new car is about a 20% for a down payment.


TnAndy- BTW .. My mom is a spender, so yeah I very much understand that they increase spending. Enough to drive you batty!!


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## TnAndy (Sep 15, 2005)

qtkitty said:


> T Get a 30year loan and pay it like 15 year loan.


Or less.

$120,000 loan 4.5% interest 30yr Payment = $608/month

360 payments (30yr) x 608 = $218,880

Almost 100 grand in interest.

Pay $1080/month, and you'll pay it off in 144 months (12yr).

144 x 1080 = $155,520

Save (218,880 - 155,550) over $63,000 ! Half the cost of the house !

Where to get an extra $472/month ?

Get a part time job at 7 bucks/hr after tax for 20hrs/week. 80hrs/mo x 7 bucks/hr = 560/mo.


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## qtkitty (Apr 17, 2005)

MoonRiver said:


> I have 2 credit cards that both give cash back. I pay in full every month and get about 2% cash back on purchases.


I have heard that if you don't have money on that card they aren't getting their % they drop you like a bad habit. Anyone had this experience? This is where research and real life leaves me in the in know.


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## qtkitty (Apr 17, 2005)

Terri- You and I think alike. When I lived on my own I shopped mostly at Aldies and a overage/ding and dent store. I kept at least 6 mo. of food and most commonly used goods on hand. That way I had time to look for good deals to replace what I had. 

I bought mostly basics, but had a few boxes of hamburger helper on hand coupons and sales on those were great back then. I bought a chest freezer for $75 and kept my flour in it. I broke down bulk meats into meal portions to freeze in old milk crates I bought cheap. I am so made extra baked goods and froze them pre and after baking depending on the item to bake or heat later. 

Where I am now aldies is an hour/hour and a half, which makes the savings not worth the travel, however a friend of mine should be moving home in a month or two and we have talked about going on trips monthly and splitting the gas. 

I have tried coupons around here, but the ones in the local paper are things I wouldn't buy. We tried getting coupons offline, but only Walmart accepts them now and again things or amounts I wouldn't normally get. 

I did get myself a new cell phone for myself for Christmas, because the one I had was an old flip phone that was old when I got it almost 6 years ago for Christmas. The model no longer has batteries available locally and my battery had been puffing up and had started to not hold a charge. I was on my mom's family plan to 'save' money and would pay her for my phone with my tax refund each year. I crunched the numbers of what a new phone would cost to buy (broken down over a year) and for me to be on a prepaid plan cost less than what my mom was charging me. This includes me upgrading to a smart phone and the smart phone plan. So I went for it. My mom is NOT happy about my choice and has yet to offer to give me back the rest of the year I prepaid (doubt that will ever happen and I am not bringing it up to her :banghead: ) 

This has opened up a lot of things though. I have several apps for grocery deals which give you money back for milk and produce, which commonly don't have coupons and I use. I also have the homesteading today app :thumbup:. I can run my etsy store and print shipping labels from my phone instead of needing to get out my laptop(Scary thing I think my phone has as many Gigs as my laptop). So it has added benefit at less cost for me.


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## qtkitty (Apr 17, 2005)

$7 after tax.... I don't know about that here. Most jobs are minimum wage, which I am not sure what that's up to now.

One reason I want to keep my present job as long as possible.


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## Belfrybat (Feb 21, 2003)

qtkitty said:


> I have heard that if you don't have money on that card they aren't getting their % they drop you like a bad habit. Anyone had this experience? This is where research and real life leaves me in the in know.


I have 4 credit cards and in 10+ years have never paid interest and not only have they not dropped me, but keep raising my credit limit. I use one for "business" expenses, utilities and auto expense, and rotate the other 3 -- use one for a couple of months then switch to the other. Right now Discover is not charging interest for purchases through next August so I used it to buy a big ticket item and will pay it off over 3 months. Otherwise I always pay each card in full every month. I have each one linked to my Amazon account so can access rewards without having to wait for the reward to build up to $25.00. I usually earn around $12-15 in rewards to use each month.


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## Terri (May 10, 2002)

qtkitty said:


> I have heard that if you don't have money on that card they aren't getting their % they drop you like a bad habit. Anyone had this experience? This is where research and real life leaves me in the in know.


Every time you charge something the CC company gets a few cents. So the CC company might or might not drop you if you do not carry a balance from time to time.


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## qtkitty (Apr 17, 2005)

Belfrybat- hmmm...I still don't like the idea of credit cards, but that gives me something to think about for sure. I know that the credit to debit ratio is something banks look at to give you a mortgage and at what % rate. Lower % rate is better to me. 

For some reason credit cards feel like playing cards with the devil, because you could so easily get sucked in up to your eyeballs. Knew a girl in highschool that had credit cards and paid her credit cards with credit cards, because she was living above her means. That colored my opinion and has left a lasting impression.


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## TxGypsy (Nov 23, 2006)

TnAndy said:


> Or less.
> 
> $120,000 loan 4.5% interest 30yr Payment = $608/month
> 
> ...


You are still paying $35,520.00 in interest on the 12yr note! Even if the market goes up you aren't likely to recoup that money when you sell the property.


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## Terri in WV (May 10, 2002)

Store credit cards will drop you if you don't use them(mostly). Major CC won't. The world revolves around the credit score, that's not a good thing, but that's the game. It's hard for the average person to acquire big ticket items without it, so play the game wisely.

Pay CC off each month. They are a great way to build credit as long as you don't abuse them. A good card to have for higher ticket items(appliances) is a Sears card. They always have sales and interest free for 12-18mths. It's came in handy when the washer or fridge has broke. Another good one to have is one that pays you a % back for gas.

Personally, I don't know that I'd ever buy a new car. They depreciate as soon as you drive them off the lot. I've bought my last two cars from a government fleet auction and they have served me well for substantially less cost than a new one.

As far as a house and land, I totally agree with TnAndy, get a 30yr and pay extra each month. Don't overlook repos. My first house was 2.35 acres, with house, garage, old barn and it was half fenced. I paid $50,000. It all needed work, but was mostly stuff that I was able to do.

You have to realistically look at how much you can take care of too. I'm not particularly looking forward to summer maintenance on the 6 acres that I just bought, but that's the trade off for me being out away from a lot of people. Fruit trees, barns and fencing etc. all cost $$$. Six years ago it cost me $1,800 to fence in 1/2 of 3.6 acres.

Get you a good little nest egg built up. It doesn't take long for one to go when something pops up. Need a roof? It'll cost 1,000's. A new furnace? There's another big chunk of change. Another riding lawn mower to take care of those acres? Ca-ching!


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## cfuhrer (Jun 11, 2013)

I always say our financial life will have two phases; the Dave Ramsey phase and the Robert and Kim Kiyosaki phase.

Ramsey for getting out of debt and Kiyosaki for building wealth. We are still in the Ramsey phase but I am a voracious reader, researcher and working paper deals based on the Kiyosaki theories.

The game Cashflow is a fantastic teaching tool and it can be played online for free.


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## qtkitty (Apr 17, 2005)

I haven't ever been to a fleet auction. I know that if I save for a brand new car then I can buy used or what would be a good deal. I haven't had a loan since I got my car loan 15 years ago. If I am not mistaken I think my mom got the loan in her name. 

I think a gas card would close my account, because I full up once a month or so. I go back and forth to work and grocery store once every 2 weeks if I can keep it to only that. Yup I'm boring.

The incidentals make me nervous, because my luck something totally out of my control would happen. Heard some one explain it as not being a klutz, but being environmentally challenged. Like if a several people have walked under the snow drift hanging off a roof you would walk under and it would choose that moment to splat fall off on you.


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## TnAndy (Sep 15, 2005)

TxMex said:


> You are still paying $35,520.00 in interest on the 12yr note! Even if the market goes up you aren't likely to recoup that money when you sell the property.



Entirely possible, but that also assumes you bought a place to sell. I bought mine in 1982, and I'm still here. Will we sell eventually ? Maybe, or maybe my ashes will be scattered on the place.

AND you have to live someplace.....is rent a better deal ?

I was using the figures she tossed out her range of home prices.

Personally, I think the BEST way to go is buy raw land (which is what we did in 1982), then build out the whole place yourself. But that clearly isn't for everyone, or even most folks.

What is your alternative plan ?


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## Terri in WV (May 10, 2002)

Kitty, here's the link for the fleet auctions to give you an idea of what can be had.

http://autoauctions.gsa.gov/GSAAutoAuctions/

From what I've seen, they generally sell the cars for about a third of the book value. You can't take any of the vehicles for a test drive, but you can look them over and start them up. No one in my family has been disappointed with anything they have bought. Unless it's changed since the last I've been there, you have to have cash, certified check or credit card to purchase one.


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## MoonRiver (Sep 2, 2007)

qtkitty said:


> I have heard that if you don't have money on that card they aren't getting their % they drop you like a bad habit. Anyone had this experience? This is where research and real life leaves me in the in know.


That's BS. I've been doing this my entire life. The credit card company makes money every time you use the card. I even had 1 card I used maybe once or twice a year and had it for may years. I finally cancelled it when I changed banks.

Also, if you are going to buy a house and a car, buy the house 1st. Any payments you have reduce the size of the mortgage you can get. 

I don't think I agree with TnAndy on mortgage length. When mortgage rates are higher, that makes sense, but with the low rates today, I would go with a 15 year. Even though you pay a little more each month, you save $500/yr just on lower interest rate. If you got a 30 yr mortgage and paid it off in 15 years, the 15 year mortgage was still $7,500 cheaper.


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## Oxankle (Jun 20, 2003)

Kitty: We are all chiming in, but all you really need to know is what Tex told you in that first reply.

Credit cards are bad unless you have the gumption to buy only what you NEED and pay the entire bill EVERY MONTH. As Tex said, pay no interest.

Live within your income, save money and put it to work. "Leverage" is a synonym for risk. How much of that can you stand? 

The very best investment for young people is whatever it takes to learn a marketable skill, something that you enjoy and that pays well. For those who come late to school, property, something that will provide food and shelter in old age is next best.


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## TxGypsy (Nov 23, 2006)

TnAndy said:


> Entirely possible, but that also assumes you bought a place to sell. I bought mine in 1982, and I'm still here. Will we sell eventually ? Maybe, or maybe my ashes will be scattered on the place.
> 
> AND you have to live someplace.....is rent a better deal ?
> 
> ...


Even if you don't ever plan to sell, you are still paying an additional $35,520.00 for the place you bought. I see folks haggle vehemently over a couple of thousand dollars on the asking price of a house. They simply don't understand that by paying a mortgage that amount of money is insignificant compared to the interest they are going to pay.

Yes you must live somewhere. I very rarely paid rent. When I was 19 or 20 I built a house and had my first mortgage. I received my first statement from the mortgage company at the end of the year for taxes stating what I had paid in principal and what I had paid in interest. My payments were around $600 per month and in a year I had only paid $400 on principal! Yes I know at first you are mostly paying interest. This shocked me. I immediately realized what an enormous fee I was paying for the privilege of borrowing money. Shortly after that(because of a family situation) I sold that house. I managed to sell it for more than was owed. I took the very tiny amount of equity that I had in that house and paid cash for some property with a really crappy old mobile home on it. 

Those $600 mortgage payments had become impossible to make when the economy crashed(one of several crashes during my life time) and I couldn't get a job. I had ended up having to move out of my house and rent it out to make the mortgage payments. I was determined not to be in that position again, so I bought what I could pay cash for. The location was lousy for finding a job, but I was young and didn't know enough to look at the bigger picture at that point. I ended up moving in order to work. I didn't make anything off of the property when I sold it but I didn't lose money either.

I've lived in RV's several times. At times I've lived with friends. I've lived in a large portable dome. I've done caretaking jobs where a house was included. Also have done workcamping where my RV spot was included as part of the pay. I was determined not to throw money down a hole which is what I considered paying interest on a mortgage or paying rent. If you are determined you will find a way.

I literally retired when I was 35 years old. That means I have been doing what I want to do when I want to do it for 8 years now. By following my plan my financial situation keeps getting better as I go along. The beach is lovely this time of year


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## lazyBum (Feb 27, 2012)

Always be prepared to snatch up a good deal. When its something you are looking for. I got a 3 year old car worth $16000 for $10000. And a 3 year old truck worth $23000 for $16000. All because people needed money quick. 

I like my small hometown bank. I call the loan officer directly, email things to her. Its never taken more than 30 minutes to get a loan approved and they give me better rates than what car dealers and realtors can provide.

You dont have to be afraid of credit cards if you have the right mentality. They are tools for making some financial transactions easier. Make sure there is no annual fee. And you dont have to get a higher limit just because youre credit score is higher. I only have one card, my original, and my limit is up to a whopping $750. I cant spend enough in a month to get in a hole.


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## whiterock (Mar 26, 2003)

Sometimes you just need a credit card. My insurance gets me 90 day mail order prescriptions, but the drug company wants money upfront or credit card before shipment, and I don't blame them as to the cost of the prescriptions. I have one credit card that is used almost exclusively for drugs. I pay it off every month.

The Sears card I got when I needed a new appliance as it got me a discount on the new fridge. It has since become a master card with a pretty nice credit limit, that sure came in handy when I needed a biopsy done last month. I have used that card about once a year since I got it.

MOstly, if I don't have the money, i figure i don't need it, whatever it is.

I had a good bit of meney come in once, and put it in CD. when that matured the interest had dropped. The interest on my mortgage hadn't so I paid off the mortgage. Just to pick a # why pay 10% interest and draw .5% on the same money. You are paying 9.5 to keep the money in the bank.


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## frogmammy (Dec 8, 2004)

Old saying: to make money, you have to HAVE money.

Quite true.

That's why if you have money put back, you can take advantage of "emergency" offerings where you save mega $$$, just because you have the cash on hand at the SECOND it is needed. The bad thing about good deals is, they don't last so you need to move quickly.

Annnd....you do realize, the newer the car, the higher the insurance and the taxes, right? That is money you will not recoup, no matter what you do.

Mon


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## kasilofhome (Feb 10, 2005)

Andy and those of his ilk are right on.
One.

Can't spend every dollar you earn.
Can't pre spend what you might save, get for Christmas,bones, or raise. When you pay something off do not reward yourself with more debt.

A new car is 10 percent lost of money when you drive it of the lot.

Honestly if you do not have to cash to pay for a new car you cannot afford to buy a new car......

Seems like you mom has made you financial choices.....how is she doing. Is she retired with a paid for home....

Go with out new. If you only use a tank of gas a month a than as tough and as rude as it will sound you could maybe get away with out one in a pinch.saving gas, insurance,repaired, inspections parking fees and pay for the few times when it is needed.

See it sounds like you are poor...that is not a crime and nothing to be ashamed of. It will be your accomplishment when you over come these times.

Asking for help is step one.

You might need more income to
But if that is not an option you have to cut to the bone to pay off debt faster.

Learn when and how to use duct tape. Make things last...that for food energy clothing...everything 

For inspiration using that smart phone tally you debts search for an amortization table and see how long it will take to clean up using the min payments .....next pump in the numbers for going six months of living bare bones and dumping everything on your debt you can and still live.....that should be the shocker to give you hope that there is light.


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## stef (Sep 14, 2002)

For many years I was one of those people who derided cell phone use, but I've changed my mind. I studied my phone usage and realized I'm not a 'telephone person'. I use a phone for basic communication and 911 calls. What put me over the top were calls from telemarketers. Why was I paying a monthly fee so they could annoy me?
I made the decision to disconnect my landline and use a pay as you go cell phone. Basic tracfones are incredibly cheap and you buy only the minutes that you use/need each month. Many of the models come with triple minutes. No way would I ever use a contract based cell phone service. Just make sure the cell phone model you're interested in will work in your area, but that's easily checked by keying in your zip code. My phone costs average around $20 to $25 a month and that's rounding up, as they say. Most times it's more in the $10 to $15 range. If I wanted to, I could purchase additional time dedicated to texts or web-surfing, so there's no need for an expensive iPhone or a contract that locks you in for a year or two. 
Take the money that you no longer spend on an expensive cell phone and minutes plan and tuck it away where no one knows about it. Just 'feed' it now and then with a couple $1's, or $5's or $10's and watch how it grows in just a few months. You'll be pleasantly surprised!


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## qtkitty (Apr 17, 2005)

Kadilofhome- Did you read the posts I have made in this thread? Love the assumption. I guess I am poor considering at this very moment I can't run out and buy a car and house with the wad of money I pulled from my mattress. That would mean me and at least 70% if not 90% of Americans are poor.

I think your making an assumption also that I live in a city. I live in the country. My car has good gas mileage and I live close to work. I to drive 15 year old car that has been paid off 11 years. My car gas, insurance, regular maintenance, and repairs last year cost me $1400.

I don't have anything spectacular to cut the meat off of, however I do live with my Mom who is spendy. I have worked and am still working on getting her in a budget for groceries. There are 2 adults and one child I have budgeted $400/mo. Which before it was draining me if every penny I had. I don't like the current grocery budget, but it is at a level that my mom feels like she is getting the basics. Our pantry is full to overfilling, freezers full, two shelves full of canned goods and non perishables in glass jars.

I hear whining every day about how she doesn't have money or poor her she needs more to cook with. Or like week before last she buys $$$ of meat and tells me to pay her back. I am stressed about it trust me it drives me nuts, but I live under her roof. Rent free, yet she refuses for me to give x amount to pay for rent or split costs. When I first started talking about budgeting, so I could save she would bring up that I only pay for groceries. 

I think I know the tactics that are being used on me, because they are the same ones I had when I was a kid. She was fine with money until I mentioned that I needed to save up for a car, because it was acting up again. Then suddenly its not enough and she is whining she is broke or getting food and I need to pay her back. It is another control thing for her as is everything else, so I have to play the game and slowly push it towards me saving, which is the point I finally got it to this last year. I am looking at keeping it there or better for the next 5 years or until I feel I have enough to get a place.

No offense to anyone saying by land only if you have cash to do it, but I understand I will have to have a mortgage for a home with a little land. I want to make sure I have things shored up as I can, because I don't want any rugs pulled out from under me. Not because I plan on living by the skin of my teeth, but because I am an only mom and I understand how quick things can happen. I can keep those things from hurting through planning in advance and budgeting for things to cost more than they will in reality and saving the difference.


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## qtkitty (Apr 17, 2005)

If I am right from a lot of what I see people doing here. People have their homes on the market for years. If I just go look over the next few years at the homes I am interested in and keep notes on their pluses and minuses. I may get lucky and one or two eventually go to auction for a good price. Once they are at auction they are wanting a quick sale at a lower price for what ever the reason may be. So I could find a good deal.


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## TxGypsy (Nov 23, 2006)

qtkitty your Mom sounds a lot like my ex. If he knew I had money he had to take it away from me. He would emotionally pound on me until I handed it over. He would come up with something that he/we HAD TO HAVE!!!! Know how a toddler will just keep after you and keep after you until you give in...because they have more energy to devote to their goal than you have to counter it?! That was my ex. 

If I wouldn't give him the money he would find something that needed to be repaired and take it in to the shop...just so I'd have to let go of the money. As odd as it sounds....the money didn't even have to go to him as long as he got it away from me somehow.

Sounds like your Mom is doing something similar. 

Learn how to lie. Become comfortable with it. I hate to lie and it is against my nature. I lie to my ex with a straight face and a clear conscience. I suggest you start hiding money and start complaining about being broke. It helps tremendously.


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## qtkitty (Apr 17, 2005)

TxMex- Sounds pretty close. She didn't want money til I made the mistake of saying I wanted to pay down my student loans after that I was in charge of groceries. Its been to the point I was doing small time online work in the evenings to make a little extra to squeak by.

Not to mention I get 20 billion questions if I want to go anywhere even if I am taking my daughter with me. The only people that come to the house are my grandparents. My daughter nor I can invite people to visit. I have a friend ...uh my only friend... thinks my mom hates her. 

When I have moments I finally break, because I feel like a caged animal then I am told its not all about me and there is something wrong with me and I need to see a shrink. Which conveniently my mom knows one she went to school with. :banghead:

Yipes sorry for the rant


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## Belfrybat (Feb 21, 2003)

qtkitty said:


> Belfrybat- hmmm...I still don't like the idea of credit cards, but that gives me something to think about for sure. I know that the credit to debit ratio is something banks look at to give you a mortgage and at what % rate. Lower % rate is better to me.
> 
> For some reason credit cards feel like playing cards with the devil, because you could so easily get sucked in up to your eyeballs. Knew a girl in highschool that had credit cards and paid her credit cards with credit cards, because she was living above her means. That colored my opinion and has left a lasting impression.


Like many other things in life, credit cards are tools. They certainly can be abused, but if you use them wisely they can be a real blessing. I actually purchased the house I'm living in on a credit card. One of my cards offered a special deal of no interest for a year. I really didn't think they would allow me to make a $32,000.00 transaction, but they did. The property I was moving from was under contract or I wouldn't have done something this risky. But it paid off. 

But in normal day to day living, I use credit cards for every purchase over $20.00 to build up reward points and pay the cards off at the end of the billing cycle. I like "free" money.


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## stef (Sep 14, 2002)

qtkitty said:


> TxMex- Sounds pretty close. She didn't want money til I made the mistake of saying I wanted to pay down my student loans after that I was in charge of groceries. Its been to the point I was doing small time online work in the evenings to make a little extra to squeak by.
> 
> Not to mention I get 20 billion questions if I want to go anywhere even if I am taking my daughter with me. The only people that come to the house are my grandparents. My daughter nor I can invite people to visit. I have a friend ...uh my only friend... thinks my mom hates her.
> 
> ...


It's obvious you know you are being emotionally manipulated, but knowing it and getting out from under it are two different things. You mentioned you have a child. That would qualify you for all kinds of aid, such as section 8 housing, medical benefits, food stamps, heating assistance. Do you have anywhere you can go (away from the house so you can't be spied on) to get some info on what's available in your area? This will go on as long as you allow it, but again, that's easy to say...when you've been emotionally abused for many years it causes you to doubt yourself and make you afraid. Emotional abusers are masters at what they do and the victim begins to believe their lies. As far as future housing is concerned...I would suggest (and this is just me) that you look into rental housing first. Home ownership is wonderful, but also very expensive. I don't know where you live, but around here a very nice home can be bought for $45,000 +/_. Since you already have debt from schooling it might be 'safer' not to take on any more loans until you get on your feet out from under your mother's roof. Be prepared for a racked up assault on you regarding guilt...they don't like to let go! But you CAN do it. Many others have and say it is the best decision they ever made. Their only regret was waiting so long. Be smart, be wise, be circumspect...don't even give a HINT that you're doing anything. Be like the women (and some men) who plan their escape from their abusers by making a plan and one day following through. Hope this isn't too long or over the top...I just don't like seeing anyone abused.


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## TxGypsy (Nov 23, 2006)

qtkitty said:


> TxMex- Sounds pretty close. She didn't want money til I made the mistake of saying I wanted to pay down my student loans after that I was in charge of groceries. Its been to the point I was doing small time online work in the evenings to make a little extra to squeak by.
> 
> Not to mention I get 20 billion questions if I want to go anywhere even if I am taking my daughter with me. The only people that come to the house are my grandparents. My daughter nor I can invite people to visit. I have a friend ...uh my only friend... thinks my mom hates her.
> 
> ...


Uh huh....sounds a whole lot like my ex. Take advantage and learn from my year of intensive therapy. Leave! Do not end up like me over 40 with very few connections to other people. He had to have all of my attention so I didn't have any time or energy to spare for making friends all those years I was with him. 

She sounds like a supreme manipulator. Keep her at arms length and don't let her use those reasonable sounding excuses to get her foot back in the door. My ex is awesome at that. Also, you will never be able to meet someone new in the situation you describe.


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## Terri in WV (May 10, 2002)

qtkitty said:


> If I am right from a lot of what I see people doing here. People have their homes on the market for years. If I just go look over the next few years at the homes I am interested in and keep notes on their pluses and minuses. I may get lucky and one or two eventually go to auction for a good price. Once they are at auction they are wanting a quick sale at a lower price for what ever the reason may be. So I could find a good deal.


To be honest, I doubt that you will be able to go the route of purchasing a house at auction. They want 10% down the day of sale and the balance within 30 days, usually. And banks don't generally loan on auction houses, because they want the inspections, etc. and that takes time. Look into repos when you have your ducks in a row.

Meanwhile, I think you should very carefully consider Stef's advice. Didn't you say that you have never really lived on your own a while back?(If that wasn't you, sorry for the confusion) It would be best to test the water before you jump in the deep end.


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## frogmammy (Dec 8, 2004)

qtkitty said:


> :banghead:
> 
> Yipes sorry for the rant


Nothing in life is free. You get to bang your head and spend more $$$ than you want for groceries because you live with your mother for "free".

You could move into your own place, get your own babysitter. It may cost more than what you're paying now. And that's the price for THAT.

You pick your poison. *NOTHING* is *EVER* free, there is always a price, even when you don't see it right away. Just make sure it's the price you WANT to pay. 

Mon


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## Terri (May 10, 2002)

Huh. 

I think in your shoes I would nevr discuss money with your Mom ever again! 

But that is just me. 

Your Mom loves you and $400 a month is dirt cheap for room and board. But, like you, I have a need to have finances worked out ahead of time. I have NEVER been comfortable with "just pay things as they show up", which is why I handle the finances in the family! There is security in knowing that I will not run out of paycheck before I run out of month!


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## okiemom (May 12, 2002)

qtkitty said:


> I have heard that if you don't have money on that card they aren't getting their % they drop you like a bad habit. Anyone had this experience? This is where research and real life leaves me in the in know.


 
FALSE I have a chase cc and I do not pay interest. Interest is stupid tax.Never pay intrest or fines, late fees etc. 
Speeding tickets are the same. 

NEVER buy a house that is OVER 25% of your TAKE home pay. They will try and say you can buy bigger/more but you will be too far in with no savings. 6mos income is needed in savings and a year is better. if you use savings do nothing else until it is back up to the previous level. 


IF you don't know what your bills are now exactly there is no way to budget. you must get a contract down with your mom as to what you are responsible for so you can budget. Small payments here and there add up to a lot of wasted money. 

All advertising is aimed at parting you and your money. You need to keep all your money so you can make your own decisions and not someone else telling you what to do. Really define what is a want vs. a need. almost everything is a want. 

So not do anything fancy or do get rich quick advice. it takes time and dedication. years if not decades. you will have to pay your dues. we all do.


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## qtkitty (Apr 17, 2005)

Frogmammy- I pay for daycare before and after school for my daughter. My mom works to. 

I agree nothing is ever free. 

Terri- $400 is what I have worked hard to get it down to. It used to be a lot more, but the spoilage drove me nuts. 

I really like to pay things ahead of time so I am not on debit or getting over charges.


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## qtkitty (Apr 17, 2005)

Stef- I do not qualify. I have looked at several programs. There is however a program that helps with down payments for first time home owners. They are trying to help the housing market.

Okiemom- I want to keep the amount low. Which is why I looked around to see if there were places I was looking for in a price range that I am comfortable with. Houses with a small amount of land in town and the same house size with more land are the same price, which I find interesting. I have also been researching electric bills in the area. I agree with the year savings! That would make me comfortable.

I had a very basic contract for the cell phone I had after I paid three times over one year, because she said I hadn't paid and then it was oh I didn't know that's what that money was earmark for *face palm*. So I paid for the entire year in one lump sum and wrote out a contract and had us both sign it. She got angry over it. I am sure she felt a fronted, but I needed it to be defined.


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## Shrek (May 1, 2002)

qtkitty said:


> My family has always been very tight lipped about money and asking is like pulling teeth. I have looked around the internet and most places want money for them to tell you about money or tell you the basics aka don't spend it dummy.
> 
> There are so many different ways to keep money and try to grow what you have. What have you guys found that works? I am interested in growing what little money I have from snow flakes her and there into a snowball and eventually into a snowman/snowoman.
> 
> ...


 The perspective you choose to have regarding money is most always the first priority of anyone with a financial tactic to offer.

Some of the perspectives offered to me have been

1. Money is like manure. Save it and stash it in the dark, it rots and stinks. Spread it around and it makes things grow.

2. If you want to invest in the stock market, consider if you could take the money and burn it without feeling that you lost anything?

3. Could you comfortably leave your money invested for 10 years and be happy with the earnings and after those 10 years reinvest 60% of the earnings?

And #4 I have found to be the best as I have learned to rely on it for the majority of my budgeting, investing and saving during my lifetime.


#4 When you get paid you budget for services provided to you like electric, water, groceries, gas and rent/mortgage, medical etc. but most everyone overlooks paying the person who provides their most valuable service to them first________themselves for earning the money they feed their budgets with.

Bearing in mind that you should pay yourself first for the service of working for that paycheck that goes into your budget, you should pay yourself at least 10% of your net pay first to seed and feed your savings and investments to build emergency funds and income generation funds you are cable of and comfortable with so that eventually you have some of your money working for you even as you are working for your money.

You are the most important entity providing you with necessary services. Pay yourself first for the service your providing by living on 90% of your income and increasing it when you can.


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## qtkitty (Apr 17, 2005)

Shrek- I have seen you write about #4 before and it is so simple, but powerful advice. It twists the idea of saving being hard or almost a punishment and makes it a positive.

To bad we cannot give two thumbs up!


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## tambo (Mar 28, 2003)

Mom and Dad always told me, pay your bills first then what you have left is what you have to give,save and spend period. If someone wants to live their own life, don't live with anyone and don't borrow money from anyone because when you do, you open the door for them to tell you how to live your life. That last statement was my own lesson l have learned in life. PS. How come this stupid smart phone won't auto correct when it should and does when I don't want it too! !


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## qtkitty (Apr 17, 2005)

Tambo- lmbo You have auto correct issues to huh. I get frustrated with the darn thing.

That is true, but then if you buy land in general even straight out you are opening the door, because you pay taxes and govt tells you what to do. Double edged sword, guess we just have to figure out where we are going to dance on it.


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## tambo (Mar 28, 2003)

As long as I pay my taxes I'm good. Bets the carp out of living with someone. I understand you got to do what you have to do but true independence do what you have to for yourself. I've got my first smart phone and have no children to show me how to use it.


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## littlejoe (Jan 17, 2007)

Didn't read the replies. but did read your post a few days ago. Doiing things with a smart phone sucks, or maybe they should have tested me, before they sold it?

The desire to succeed is your own. We each have different goals. This world is nothing but a place to lay our heads, and be comfortable in doing so...we must all have differing needs? If I can help another as much as I've been helped/inspired, I'll feel blessed!

My needs are met!

Don't be afraid of using credit. Just use it wisely! If you make it work it for you, there is no shame in using it. You don't become a slave, but it requires personal responsibility.

I've used it to purchase land, livestock, and equipment. Credit can be a good thing if used wisely. Just make it work for you!


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## Ramblin Wreck (Jun 10, 2005)

littlejoe said:


> Don't be afraid of using credit. Just use it wisely! If you make it work it for you, there is no shame in using it. You don't become a slave, but it requires personal responsibility.
> 
> I've used it to purchase land, livestock, and equipment. Credit can be a good thing if used wisely. Just make it work for you!


That's been my experience. Some have acquired homes and land without credit, but I would have neither without it. It is critical that you don't confuse a want with a need. There are a lot of folks struggling to make payments on $40-50K trucks/cars/SUVs when all they needed was a safe, reliable commuting vehicle. Everybody has to make their own choices in life, and I suspect one size doesn't fit all.


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## collegeboundgal (Jul 17, 2005)

qtkitty said:


> I have heard that if you don't have money on that card they aren't getting their % they drop you like a bad habit. Anyone had this experience? This is where research and real life leaves me in the in know.


I have an american express blue cash. It has a $75 annual fee. BUT!!!! I get 6% back on grocery stores (not wal-mart or sam's, but I think the neighborhood wal-mart's do...), 3% cash back on gas, and 1% back on everything else. 
While we did go on a trip to utah this past yr, so received a lot of credit on gas that way, I have (off the top of my head) received almost $200 in cash back (credit). I have only had this card for 7 months. I put everything I can on this card (not everyone takes american express) and pay it off in full each and every month. I am, at this point, making money off this card even with the annual fee. The most important thing is paying it off each and every month IN FULL! If I don't have the money in the bank to pay for what I put on the card, I don't get it. 
When used correctly, credit cards will save me a ton of money over time.


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## RideBarefoot (Jun 29, 2008)

Ramblin Wreck said:


> It is critical that you don't confuse a want with a need.


This times 10. The basics are pretty simple; food, shelter, clothing, (reasonable) transportation. Pretty much everything else falls into want category, until you've budgeted or saved for that item.


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## Ramblin Wreck (Jun 10, 2005)

RideBarefoot said:


> This times 10. The basics are pretty simple; food, shelter, clothing, (reasonable) transportation. Pretty much everything else falls into want category, until you've budgeted or saved for that item.


I agree with this, but I would not have a mortgage now if I had not purchased some additional property from a sister (family land that would have been lost) and a neighbor (land that adjoined mine and in view of my front porch). When weighing which I would regret most, the longer mortgage did not have the gut wrenching loss I would have felt had that land slipped away. 

Now, if I could just get back all that money I invested in the kids. That was money down a rat hole for sure. :happy2:


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## RideBarefoot (Jun 29, 2008)

I think mortgage falls in the "in the budget" category~ I would do the same in that situation


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## pancho (Oct 23, 2006)

I never had a problem saving. There is always some extra cash around. Many years ago I started investing the raises I would get. I was making on what I was paid before the raise so I invested all they would give me.
Threw my credit cards away. When I saw something I wanted I would wait until I got home to decide if I really wanted it. What worked for me was to put the amount in cash something cost in my hand then think if I wanted that thing more than I wanted the cash. Most times I picked the cash.
I retired early and really enjoy it. The above helped me retire but what helped most of all was buying a lot of silver for $6 an ounce and selling it for $50 an ounce.


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## qtkitty (Apr 17, 2005)

Wow that's quite a return on an investment $6 to $50!


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## pancho (Oct 23, 2006)

qtkitty said:


> Wow that's quite a return on an investment $6 to $50!


Just got lucky. I have had that sort of luck most of my life.


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## WhyNot (Jun 21, 2011)

Since no one has mentioned it. Grow your career...or if you don't have one, get one...make one. You mentioned college. Even if you dropped out, you've been and that means something to the right people. Utilize the internet to create a great resume and also, move.

The stress alone in your situation makes thinking clearly difficult. I'm a single mom too, I get it. You need to get away from that situation and work on your and your child's future independently since your family isn't the "we are a team" kind.

You may be surprised what kind of work you can get with a well tweaked resume and a boatload of confidence.

I was the queen of the $350.00 car  Went through several and learned how to work on them, when to tell that the alternator needed replacing, etc. Those things that leave you stranded on the side of the road. Learn how to leverage your insurance too.

Larger communities usually offer a few perks. Like before or after school programs that are free or very inexpensive. In a larger community you may also be able to get a food card or medical to offset your expenses.

Learn how to leverage every thing you can get...not just money, interest, and credit (or debit in some cases).

Being alone and taking care of a kid while going to college and having a badly paying job taught me a lot of things:

How to negotiate with utility companies, landlords and bankers.
How to fix vehicles and that maintenance is king.

How to boost your credit by having and minimally using a credit card. This boosts your credit more than paying mortgages or car financing. Available credit that YOU DO NOT USE is king.

How paying your car or house payment or student loan each paycheck (split the regular payment into several) works out in your favor.

Larger communities have more people in them that have more money they are willing to part with. Leverage that dynamic to economics.

Change is inevitable, struggle is optional...you just need to figure it out the optional part.


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