# please look at this propane pipe



## harmon (Jun 15, 2013)

the local propane man came out to my place and told me since this was "pitted" it could be unsafe, might leak might blow up. Then he told me how to fit it to the tank regulator so he could fill the tank. 

Does this pipe look dangerous? How deep are these pipes typically? I couldnt get a straight answer out of him on the fix or if one was necessary. 

If this pipe looks bad, then what needs done to fix replace the pipe or fix the problem?

thanks 
https://plus.google.com/photos/yourphotos?pid=6025348529857746466&oid=101530786973511016182


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## Harry Chickpea (Dec 19, 2008)

What you can see is not the dangerous part, it is what is below ground that you can't see that MIGHT be a problem. Our propane comes in from the tank in copper, and the installer suggested that it be sleeved on the outside with some of my 3/4" black poly to prevent corrosion, especially around cement. I'm really comfortable with that since if there was ever a break in the copper, the propane would vent out to the outside within the poly, preventing a buildup of gas in the crawl space. He really had a brilliant idea.

Except for the piping under your home, any leak is more likely to just cost you $$$ in lost propane than be a danger.


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## harmon (Jun 15, 2013)

Ok Thanks. So the "pitted" condition means nothing? If the past underground leaks then that will show in a test, right?


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## Harry Chickpea (Dec 19, 2008)

Yep, pretty much. Corrosion above the ground does generally indicate the BEST part of the pipe. Underground _might_ be seriously corroded. Careful digging to expose a little could set your mind at ease or save you some money if it is seriously damaged. Old steel/iron pipes can be odd in how they corrode. Sometimes they are like onion layers, where one "skin" will look fine except for a couple of points, but then under that a whole area is rotted and so forth.


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## farminghandyman (Mar 4, 2005)

I would suggest STRONGLY TO replacing the pipe with a proper coated for in the ground placement GAS PIPE, (it is possible the pipe under ground is a coated pipe), and only the risers is in need of replacement, (normally galvanized is not approved for gas line work). (but codes do very from place to place), 

black pipe is usually what is recommended in the building not exposed to weather, 

there is special pipe wrap for any nicks in the coating and on joints and any place the coating is missing, 

they are also now using a poly gas pipe with special risers (expensive), I just replaced my propane line this last winter, using the yellow poly, (it seems to be different in size so water type fitting will not work with it and one has to use the special ones, 
(the poly pipe looks similar to the black poly water type pipe but color is yellow,

if the exits the ground before entering the building most likely if it leaks about all that will happen is you will lose a tank of propane but if it does not exit, and stays under the surface of the soil and enters under, (against code), yes you could blow up your house very easily, 35 years ago, we had a improper propane pipe installed that way, straight under the foundation of the house and not exiting, a flare fitting cracked, gas leak under ground followed the pipe under the house and filled with propane, we smelled I dug up and under the house, (no crawl entrance area) and it was very strong lots of gas under the house, dug a second hole so a cross wind would blow it out, *we were very, very, very, LUCKY* .

propane or natural gas is not some thing to take lightly and think things are good enough, (propane is considered more dangerous as it is heaver than air and sinks and pools in pockets thus creating a greater hazard as it does not disparate as easily as NG. 

_If I was the gas supplier I would not fill the tank or hook you up until it was inspected and properly repaired. by a properly licensed gas installer/plumber. at least inspected if you do your own work, by the proper authority, (And I personally hate the Idea of private property inspections),_ 

but if some one can not see *potential danger* in that picture, *and not want to fix it,* and comes to a internet board asking is this pipe to bad for gas, wanting some one to say yes use it. It is just fine the factory put rusts in pits in gas pipe for design. 

then there is a reason permits, licenses, codes, and inspectors exist,

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

It has been some time, but for steel pipe I think 18" depth, on the poly pipe I think it is 24" deep.,

how deep is your who knows, 

To fix. replace with the proper pipe using proper procedures for the type of pipe. and proper plumbing and methods for the job, 
depending on location and code of the jurisdiction it would be close to this, IN some locations copper is permitted and some NOT. I personally would not use copper, 

the procedures on propane and NG are basically the same, the propane is usually can be sized a little different as the Pressure is a little higher on it, 
http://www.ci.lancaster.oh.us/dept/gas/pdf/Code%20Book.pdf


*PLEASE DO IT Correctly and do it safe*


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## harmon (Jun 15, 2013)

The propane man came back out, tested and filled it 125 gallons. After he left I noticed the pipe actually showed through the ground about 50 feet away


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## fordson major (Jul 12, 2003)

time to redo the line, don'tmess around with your safety


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## HuskyBoris (Feb 14, 2013)

this used to a farmhouse,I take no chances with my life,,do you?

http://blog.mlive.com/flintjournal/newsnow/2007/05/lawsuit_filed_in_deadly_home_e.html


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## WildlingFarm (Jul 1, 2014)

Ignore the dangers of propane leaking for a moment. 

My propane tank is full of 4.00 a gallon propane from winter right now. So what roughly 1800 worth of propane. Imagine all of that money depressurizing into your yard. Your company especially if they say pipes need to be ran will not give that back.

2 years ago my back yard age roughly $500 dollars of propane. Yup we went from 3/4 full to bone dry in less than a week. Thankfully it was my grass not my house but we didn't get that $$ back!

Replace it for your safety and your wallet. You had a professional come loook at it take their advice.


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## harmon (Jun 15, 2013)

The pro that came out tested the pressure and put propane in it. Wouldn't the test show if there was a leak, underground or otherwise?


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## farminghandyman (Mar 4, 2005)

yes the pressure test would show if it is leaking now,

but what it does not show is how close it is to leaking, or failing, 

you know it is corroded now, what you do not know is how much more corrosion will it take to leak, is the worst corroded area, a thousand of inch thick or 1/8" thick, this is what it does not show, all it showed is it is currently holding pressure, and not leaking not how far it is to failure, 

I have worked as general contractor, and have done plumbing and some gas work, I personally think your dealing with a potential time bomb there,

Good luck hope we do not read about you in the paper,


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## harmon (Jun 15, 2013)

Thanks but I'm already in the papers


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## fordson major (Jul 12, 2003)

I am a licensed gas tech and from just the pic of the pipe, would have red tagged your system. buried line above ground?!?!?!?! takes a vehicle running over it to burst and ignite the system.


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## farminghandyman (Mar 4, 2005)

Harmon, I do not know what your problem is, but you would not have posted the picture of the pipe if you were not concerned with the pipe in the first place, 

ever one has made the suggestion to REPLACE THE LINE, for you and your families safety, and finances, yet you refuse to even give credence to the suggestion, and mock us here that are trying to help, I do not understand your thought process,

I understand the constraints of money, I understand not being able to do it your self, and so one but just to look at some thing and know there is a lurking danger and say that is OK I got the tank filled all is OK now, 

would you say the same thing if a claymore was setting at the side of the walk way in front of your door, with a trip wire running across the path, saying it is OK just do not touch the trip wire, it Is fine, all is ok, it has not been detonated yet, 

DO what you want to do, 
Stupid is as Stupid does, 
(It means that an intelligent person who does stupid things is still stupid. 
You are what you do.)


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## Nimrod (Jun 8, 2010)

Perhaps I'm stating the obvious but the pipe comes out of the ground and is capped. Does it actually supply something? 

If it is not hooked to anything I would cut it off in the basement and cap it or put in a valve. Then it would not matter if it broke because it would not have gas in it.


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## copperkid3 (Mar 18, 2005)

Nimrod said:


> Perhaps I'm stating the obvious but the pipe comes out of the ground and is capped. Does it actually supply something?
> If it is not hooked to anything I would cut it off in the basement and cap it or put in a valve. Then it would not matter if it broke because it would not have gas in it.


+ + + + + + + + + 
What is NOT obvious, is what 'that' pipe is connected to
and the unseen condition of the supply line into the house.

Based on what you can see in the first pic,
are you willing to take the ultimate gamble
with your life, as well as your family members, 
that the results might not turn out like pic #2?

I can tell you for a fact, that first responders do not appreciate
having to scavage various body parts of anyone; especially children.

If one is bound & determined 
to play Russian roulette - use a gun . . .
it's less messy in the long run.


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## harmon (Jun 15, 2013)

fordson major said:


> I am a licensed gas tech and from just the pic of the pipe, would have red tagged your system. buried line above ground?!?!?!?! takes a vehicle running over it to burst and ignite the system.


I'm convinced. its cut off at the tank now and I have an appliance repairman coming out next week I will ask him to refer me to someone that can dig a trench and repipe. 

It seems like an easy process, but like electricity, I'm not comfortable learning by doing with explosive gas.


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## fordson major (Jul 12, 2003)

it is easy!! but because of regs its better to get someone else to do it.


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## beowoulf90 (Jan 13, 2004)

When I'm bidding Gas piping and there is underground pipe, this is one of the products we use.

http://www.gastite.com/products/underground.html

In PA this type of Gas Pipe is required by law for underground piping. We are no longer allowed to use the Black Iron/Galvanized pipe for underground. Also the reality of it is the yellow gastite is cheaper than the iron pipe. Oh and one other point, we are not allowed any joints underground.


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## harmon (Jun 15, 2013)

I showed this pipe to a plumber this week and he was unconcerned. Said to cover it


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## fordson major (Jul 12, 2003)

a plumbers handy work does not blow up when it leaks.


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## harmon (Jun 15, 2013)

I thought a plumber is who I would need to have work on it. If not a plumber, who?


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## fordson major (Jul 12, 2003)

here we are called either gas technicians or pipefitters . try asking your neighbors who services their gas systems or phone a place that sells gas burning appliances
if the plumber has been trained in gas, then he should know. the pipe is not going to get better, it will degrade and if it is above ground then has not been installed safely.


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## harmon (Jun 15, 2013)

It was installed a few feet from a gutter drain so rain water eroded the soil down to the pipe. Hopefully the rest of the underground pipe will be okay


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## harmon (Jun 15, 2013)

beowoulf90 said:


> When I'm bidding Gas piping and there is underground pipe, this is one of the products we use.
> 
> http://www.gastite.com/products/underground.html
> 
> In PA this type of Gas Pipe is required by law for underground piping. We are no longer allowed to use the Black Iron/Galvanized pipe for underground. Also the reality of it is the yellow gastite is cheaper than the iron pipe. Oh and one other point, we are not allowed any joints underground.


Thats interesting stuff
Why both iron and copper size? 
Can it be connected to pipe thats already laid or would the whole line need reset? 
I couldnt find prices on that site


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## beowoulf90 (Jan 13, 2004)

harmon said:


> Thats interesting stuff
> Why both iron and copper size?
> Can it be connected to pipe thats already laid or would the whole line need reset?
> I couldnt find prices on that site



I'll try and answer your questions.

Why iron and copper sizes?
Because the above ground pipe can be either copper or black iron pipe. 

For example if you are running the length of a building on the inside of the building you can use either, but black iron is cheaper than copper, so that is normally used. Think commercial buildings or apartment buildings with gas appliances and water heaters.

Now in residential you can also use copper because the additional costs aren't as bad because the length/distances aren't there.

Also anything over 2" has to be welded by a certified welder if inside the building, again think commercial buildings. You shouldn't run into that in a residential building unless it is an extremely large residence using Natural gas and a low pressure system.

As to connecting it to existing pipe, Here in PA where I'm at it would need to be replaced. We aren't allowed to have connections underground anymore. 

Every now and again you will here about gas explosions at urban and suburban homes. The reason is mostly because the iron pipe rusted and allowed a gas leak.. 

So if the connection is underground I personally would replace all the underground, but that is just me. 

Here is a link from Grainger that has some pipe prices and even underground fittings. 
http://www.grainger.com/category/buriable-gas/plumbing/ecatalog/N-a6l

You can also do a search for underground gas pipe and see if anyone like Lowes etc sells it.


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