# Low treatment or minimal chemical treatment beekeeping?



## spud (Feb 3, 2007)

I just started beekeeping this year and I am trying to go chemical free. I am trying Russian bees and using Freeman trays to control our dreaded pests the vora mite and hive beetle. 

The local beekeeper I am working with and our local bee club doesn't seem to have any desire to work towards a less harsh treatment of their hives and bees. Neither does our state extention staff, they seemed to be clueless on beekeepers across our country trying to manage their bee colony's in a less harsh way. 

Am I being to critical of our local group or do I have a legit beef?


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## Ford Zoo (Jan 27, 2012)

Spud, I'm new also, but some of the people at my local bee groups are interested in natural raising. One guy uses this product and swears by it for natural mite control. Not sure which one he purchases, but he says he puts a drop in each hive monthly, the bees carry it thru the hive, and he has not had mite problems in several years since he started bee keeping. 

Must be something to it, he has strong, high producing hives. 

http://parsonsgold-honeybees.com/gpage1.html


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## spud (Feb 3, 2007)

Thanks Ford, I will have to give it a try, seems quite reasonable. I guess I wouldn't be so critical but hive losses around here are very high, more than 50% and I can't see how beekeeping can be fun or affordable if you have to buy bees for half of you hives every spring. Seems like we are not supporting good genetics of local bees and them supporting them with a healthy environment.


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## alleyyooper (Apr 22, 2005)

You got part of it right bees are expensive to buy. Then most come from much warmer areas of the country so have never over wintered in the north. We really need more queen rearing people in the north that breed stock that have been thru our winters. Much of the die off here in the north is partly due to the southern warm climate genetics. I loose way less colonies in the winter since I started raising my own queens.

The USDA has approved formic acid as a organic means to control the Varro mite. While it is a man made chemical it is minced in nature by ants. 
We as bee keepers have to deal with all the farm crops around us that are genial modified to kill bugs off too.

I have many semi truck loads of money tied up in my bees and I use what works not some nilly willy I hope it works treatments.

 Al


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## rosalind (Oct 6, 2014)

spud said:


> Am I being to critical of our local group or do I have a legit beef?


It's our first year too, so I'm trying to be conservative in my judgements and just take in a lot of information. 

Have you researched using powdered sugar dusting for mite control? My dad knows some commercial beekeepers using this method!

http://scientificbeekeeping.com/pow...weet-and-safe-but-does-it-really-work-part-1/


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## TxGypsy (Nov 23, 2006)

Next spring I will have been keeping bees for 25 years. 23 years of that has been completely chemical free and that includes natural chemical free as well. I have excellent survival rates, so good in fact that other beekeepers have called me a liar. It absolutely can be done.

You might want to check out my website as there is good info there on chemical free beekeeping(see my signature). For mites, use screened bottom boards. If you are using screened bottom boards and you still have mites.....you have a genetics problems, not a mite problem, change queens. If bees are hygienic they will groom the mites off of themselves. Raise your hives up off of the ground(much less problems with skunks and better air flow as well) so that the mites can fall through the screen and completely out of the hive so that they are unable to reattach. Below is a picture of how I set up my hives. You will of course want to close up the bottom in the winter time. 

This spring I had to start over completely due to all my bees being killed from chemical exposure last year. I purchased frames of bees and brood from a commercial beekeeper. He ran his hives on a standard solid bottom board 4 hive pallet system. The mites were thick on these bees. Fortunately they had good genetics, just not an optimal environment to live in. Within 2 weeks of getting them back to my place and installing them into hives with screened bottom boards there were no detectable mites in the hives.


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## spud (Feb 3, 2007)

TxMex, thanks for the encouragement. Sorry to hear about your losses. Too bad ya didn't have some hives in a didn't area so you could have saved the genetics you worked so hard to develop.

Hive beetles it seems need to be trapped cause the bees really can't kill em, just chase them, hopefully into a trap where they will die. 

Nice website, and thanks for not doing the status quo.


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## TxGypsy (Nov 23, 2006)

There is a page on the website on small hive beetles. Didn't realize y'all had them up in Ohio. I am going to be tackling the small hive beetle problem this coming year in my experiments. 

Placing hives away from trees is a huge help with small hive beetles, along with freezing frames, but I'd like to do more. Of course the key, as with most any other bee problem, is to keep your hives good and strong. I plan to try using microfiber cloth in a few hives. The beetles are supposed to get tangled up in it, but not bees. 

I'm going to be doing some work with equipment too. There are 2 places in my hives that I find they are consistently able to get away from bees. The top of a frame is angled in at the corners. I find that they can get into those angles and preferably get between the end of the frame and edge of the hive and the bees can't reach them. When I get into a hive I will check this area before I start moving frames and can often stick the blade of my hive tool down in there and mash beetles. I'm still working on a way to negate that hiding space.

The other place I consistently find them is in the bottom bar of the frame. The slot that is designed for the bottom of a sheet of foundation to sit down into makes a space just big enough for the beetles, but it is too deep for the bees to reach down into it if it is too narrow. Also, where the bottom bar meets the side bars creates a little enclosed area for them. I have started installing my bottom bars upside down. Since nearly all of my frames are foundationless this should make no difference. This will put the slot facing down and the beetles will have to crawl around the outside to get to the comb, which makes them vulnerable to my bees harassing them. 

I also plan to do some baiting and trapping of small hive beetles outside of my hives. If I can lure them to a trap and get them before they go into my hives that is a good thing!


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## spud (Feb 3, 2007)

It's been a good year for going treatment free again. I am continuing with Russian strain for mites and using freeman trays for hive beetles. Very lucky to have a friend that lets me put a couple of hives on her 60 acres. One hive did very well, new hive with a queen and three pounds of bees has four deeps on it. The other with same amount of bees had queen problems, no queen for awhile in early summer, ended up transferring brood and some open frames of larvae and frames of honey from gangbuster hive and it now has two deeps and doing very well. Harvested 80 lbs of honey from lasts years hive and it swarmed but did just fine, just wish I could have gotten the swarm. 

Hive at my place did great till early fall and no queen or brood and not quite sure what happened. Was able to save 6-7 deeps of honey and about a dozen frames of comb and pollen for next year. That was a horizontal hive that was very fun to work with, wish it would have stayed intact. good luck to all for wintering over, plan on continuing insulating over winter. 

Jeff


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## ed/La (Feb 26, 2009)

I make my own frames with only one groove at the top. I secure 1 or 2 inch starter strip of wax in groove with melted wax. These frames have less hiding spots for hive beetles. I also caulk any crack, knot or any hiding spot for beetle in hive body. This does seem to help. I do paint the inside of hives with white paint. Bees do not mind and hive beetles stand out. Bee spacing is important, if to small for bees it is hive beetle space. This year I started treating with oxalic acid for mites. I live in the south, zone border line 8/9. Hot summers so screen bottom boards. Going into winter with 19 hives. A few are weak that I am using as queen banks in case I need a queen. I caught most with swarm boxes and I split hives to make up for winter losses, prevent swarming, and for fun. Next season I might do cut outs for money and bees. I will have a quarantine yard to bring these to. I have had bad luck with cut out bees. Beetles, mites, and absconding hives. 12 hives absconded on the same day. I stopped doing cut outs after that. Going try again.


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