# Berkey red food color test (picture heavy)



## Common Tator

I finally got the time and a good place to test all of my Berkey filters. I got to take over a fire station kitchen for a few hours. Lots of counter space and big, deep sinks! 

The idea is that you are supposed to be able to pour water with red food color into the top chamber, and the filters are supposed to remove the red food color, so that only clear water enters the bottom chamber.

The filters needed to be primed with known safe water. The water at this location is a municipal water source. I have a total of 10 black Berkey filters. This is a picture of one of the filters being primed.










When I was carrying my Berkey from the ranch house, out to the truck, I heard a clunk inside. One of the filters had separated from it's plastic base, and fallen over. When I arrived at the fire station, a second filter had fallen over and separated from it's plastic base. The adhesive that they used, at least when these filters were manufactured, doesn't stick well to the plastic. I hope that Berkey has found a better adhesive, because this shouldn't happen, and it appears to be the source of much of the recent failures! Here are the two filters that separated. 










And this is the interior of one of the plastic bases. The stuff that looks like dirt, is dirt. The opening between the plastic base and the adhesive was so large that sediment got inside the filter, and some of it went through to the Berkey's base unit. Both of the plastic bases contained sediment. These were the filters we had been using when we learned about the failure of some Berkey filters. Because of this failure, we thought we were drinking purified water, but were actually drinking unfiltered creek water.










I primed the remaining 8 filters and did the red food color test on them.

I used a large white bowl to put the top unit with the filters installed into, because the red food color would be easier to see against the white background. I found a coffee mug with a narrow base, and placed it upside down in the middle of the bowl. Then I placed the upper Berkey chamber on top of the mug. That lifted the base unit high enough that the water could flow from the filters, and I could get a better view of what was happening. In this picture, you can see red liquid pouring quickly through one of the filters. 










It appears that I rushed the test. When this filter (shown in the picture above) failed, I stopped the test, and poured the red water back into the pitcher and assumed the other filters had passed. I tested the remaining four filters, and assumed they passed. I picked up a filter that I had just tested, and it was full of water. I shook the water out into the sink, and the water from inside the filter was red. That was another failed filter. At this point I had four failed filters out of 10!

I washed out the white bowl, and put the six that I thought had passed into it. When I took the filters out, there was a lot of red water in it, which had drained out of the filters. So I have a failure rate of at least 50%










My filters were produced in March or April of 2011. Berkey acknowleges that they had a problem during this timeframe. MyPatriotSupply provided us with a link to this document from New Millinium Concepts that shows you how to find the manufacture date on your filter. http://www.berkeywater.com/Element.pdf

At this point, even if they passed the red food color test, I wouldn't trust the adhesive to stick to the base of my current filters, as it separates so easily. I would say that it is not a matter of if, but when it will separate. Hopefully, Berkey has found a better adhesive, and corrected this problem.


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## tab

Thanks for posting. Let us know how the replacement process goes for you.
Guess I will get the food coloring out......and checking dates.


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## tab

Carp!!!!!! My two new filters that I bought for spares were made in 4/11 and 5/11, one of the times listed in the letter.


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## Common Tator

I'll be updating this thread with information on how the replacements are handled. I want them to replace ALL of my filters, at no cost to me. I do not trust the adhesive that they used! 

I started this thread to alert other Berkey owners of the problem. I think everyone should test their filters, and get the defective ones replaced. Please do this, regardless of the date of manufacture.

Tab, you need to prime and test those filters!


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## OnlyMe

Thank you for posting. I hadn't tested mine but will do so this week.


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## Common Tator

That's great OnlyMe!


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## bluetick

Common Tator, I don't know when you bought your Berkey, but I've read they are not allowed to be sold (shipped to) CA. Might have gone into effect last year.

I hope the company is responsive to the serious issues you've had with the filters.


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## Common Tator

Thanks Bluetick, I had spoken to them before, and they said they would replace filters for California residents.


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## Common Tator

There is another forum discussing the Berkey filters here: http://www.survivalistboards.com/showthread.php?t=203110


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## Common Tator

I promised to keep this thread updated as events occur.

I called New Millenium Concepts again. I explained about The red food color tests that I had done on all of my filters. I explained that all 10 need to be replaced. I also explained that I shouldn't be charged a prorated amount on any of them, and I wanted assurances that I wouldn't be charged the prorated amount, and that I would get replacements for all 10 filters, before I sent mine in. I paid top dollar for those filters, and because they were defective, I drank unfiltered creek water for months. I see the prorated system that they devised as making me pay them, for keeping their defective filters a secret from their customers. 

The woman I spoke with wouldn't give me any assurances of any kind, except that they would replace the two that separated from their bases. She thought that I would at least have drinking water then. I don't understand her math. My Royal Berkey comes with four holes for filters in the upper chamber. They only sent one plug to plug one of the holes. If she sends two Berkey filters (to replace the 10 that I send her) I will have two filters, one plug, and a remaining hole. I still won't have drinking water at my ranch.

In my previous posts, I didn't go into detail about what happened to me, but I think I should. I read the original thread where I learned about problems with the Berkey in late November. That thread is here: http://www.homesteadingtoday.com/showthread.php?t=421678&highlight=berkey 

I want to thank Stanb999 for letting the rest of us know about the problems with Berkey filters, because I wouldn't have known about it otherwise. Still, there was a good chance my filters were good, and I didn't have any red food color. I was already on a liquid diet, in preparation for gastric bypass surgery. The operation was November 29th. I continued to drink the water from the filter until I did the red food color test. I finally remembered to get some red food color, and tested the filters on December 10th or 11th. My unit failed the red food color test. We quit using the Berkey immediately. I had bought plenty of spare filters, but wasn't sure where they had been stored. 

In the wee hours of December 28th, I awoke in terrible pain. I didn't know what it was, possibly a heart attack. Hubby rushed me to the hospital, where they ruled out heart attack. Because of my recent gastric bypass, they did a CT scan of my stomach, and found that it had a hole in it. I was rushed in for emergency surgery, and spent the next 5 days in the hospital, on massive doses of antibiotics. This was the most painful experience of my life, and I nearly died. 

It didn't occur to me until later that I had been drinking unfilterd creek water for months, including two weeks after my surgery. The nature of gastric bypass is that the stomach is cut and stapled. Creating lots of open wound surface area for bacteria to fester, if you happen to be drinking unfiltered surface water (Thanks New Millenium Concepts!). If my problem was caused by drinking bacteria infested water, I'll never know for sure. The antibiotics did their job, and cured the peritonitis. But I believe this was the cause of the hole in my stomach. After all, this happened on an empty stomach! It was 6 or 7 hours after I had eaten.

So I explained about what happened to the lady at New Millenium Concepts, and still couldn't get a commitment from her about replacing all 10 of my filters, and not charging the pro rated fee. So for now, we have a giant, stainless steel, extremely expensive door stop. We won't be able to use the Berkey again until we get good replacement filters. By the way, I have read reports that some of the newly redesigned filters are still separating at the base.

Remember, the first time I called New Millenium Concepts, the lady proudly told me that they "only have a less than 5% failure rate". That is extremely high. A poster in another forum did some math. Here is what he said.

_"As I understand it, the individual filter elements are in parallel, so that if one filter element is bad, the output is contaminated.

If each individual filter element has a 5% chance of being bad, the chance of it being good is 1-0.05, or 0.95. If four filter elements are in parallel, the probability of all four filter elements being good is 0.95^4 = 81.4%, so the probability of contamination is 18.6%.

Been a long time since I studied statistics and probability, so the computation could be wrong."_

That was here, post number 73: http://www.survivalistboards.com/showthread.php?t=203110&page=4

When I first tested my filters, I had pink water gushing through one filter, and the other two weren't working at all. Two of those filters have since fallen off their bases, and the third failed the red food color test, so that is a 100% failure rate, at least for me.

I don't want anyone else to go through what I went through. And New Millenium Concepts aren't doing their customers any favors by being stingy about replacements. Listening to me explain about my near death experience hasn't caused them to behave any better, so this coming week I'll be talking to the FDA and the Centers for Disease Control about the fact that there are people out there that bought these filters and aren't aware of the defects. 

I believe New Millenium Concepts needs to do a complete recall of all filters that were produced during the the defect period, and frankly, why aren't they testing their own filters before they are sent out? Especially, when they are aware of the defect?


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## where I want to

I wasn't going to post this but I think the company has some real problems too. And just because you run the dye tests doen't mean that you are in the clear.
After using the filters for couple of months, the postings here made me check the soundness of them. 
I put dye in the resevoir and saw a faint red coming from one filter, so I changed it out with a replacement from my stash. I then retried the dye and saw one of the filters that had seemed good now was leaking red. So I replaced it. 

Then the first replaced filter failed on retest. I think the simple movement of the filter when replacing the other caused failure. And I was very careful in handling them.

None of my filters are in the alleged defective period and none have the markings that the reference on the company's site shows.

I don't think that this is a quality control issue but a design issue. I too have creek water- many people don't need the level of assurance I do as they are basically using these for taste issues but no one should rely on these things nor the company that seems more interested in minimizing their costs than standing by their product.


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## Common Tator

Where I want to, I have given some thought to the adhesive that they use to glue the ceramic filter to it's base, and I'm wondering if it shrinks as it cures. If that is the case, that would explain why it separates so easily from the plastic base when moved or handled. It would already be partially separated to begin with.

Judging from the descriptions from Berkey users, the first round of defective filters that were manufactured in 2010, were attributed to sloppy glue jobs, where there was no glue in certain areas, and that allowed water to rush around the glue. 

The 2011 defective filters were from the glue separating from the plastic base. The glue job was neater, but separates from the plastic base, allowing the water to rush past the filter. And that was the case with the ones that I have that separated. If the adhesive shrinks as it cures, then eventually, they will all fail, but this is just a guess.

Edited to add. My experience with the test was similar to Where I want to's. Filters that I thought had passed the test, filled with red water. They couldn't withstand the gentle handling of being put into the Berkey.


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## jamala

I just retested mine with red food color, (I used blue the first time) and they are still working great. Mine were manufactored during the period that they had the bad seals. I will continue to test mine weekly. My 5 year old loves watching the water in the top go from red to clear-lol.


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## hintonlady

Mine failed the dye test. We then turned the top of the berkey upside down so it could dry out and both filters fell off their bases. 

MPS was very helpful. Just sent in my filters last week, waiting to see what happens.

New milleniums prorated return policy irks me since they mention that the filters can last years. If I buy a product with a certain life expectancy I should at least be able to expect a fraction of that... If there is a defect in manufacturing it is still a defect regardless of when it is discovered.


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## Common Tator

Jamala, I'm so glad that you are testing your filters!

Hintonlady, MPS is great. I don't envy him for having to deal with this issue. You're right about NMC's claims vs their reality. They had a stellar reputation for so long, and because of it, they could charge an arm and a leg compared to comparable filters. Now, that stellar reputation is hurting people who haven't yet heard about the defective filters. 

I'm sorry that yours failed. Don't let the redesign fool you into a false sense of security either. Several people on other boards have received the new filters, and they have failed too. So test, test test, with regularity, regardless of the date of manufacture!


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## hintonlady

Call me paranoid, but...

I wonder how much it actually costs New Millenium to manufacture the filters. I'm willing to bet there is an *ahem* comfortable profit margin.

You pay for one set upfront. Several months later the average consumer gets wise because their water tastes off or a candles snaps off the base. The average consumer does some research and realizes they need to test their system. The average consumer lost their recipet or bought the system just a little (or more) past the 100% warranty date.

Voila, New Millenium sells you another set of semi expensive filters with a portion of that comfortable profit margin still built in. (after discount). Supposing that scenario is even close to accurate they stand to make more money on failures, rather than selling a quality product.

Once you shell out a few hundred bucks for the system you are sort of in a catch 22 if you are angry about paying 100% for a replacement filter set. How many people notice the issue after it's too late?


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## Common Tator

You're right Hintonlady. Hopefully after reading this, folks will keep their receipts, or look for an alternative water filter system.

If you don't mind using the white filters, there is Doulton, and Aqua Cera. These filters will fit in your Berkey.

This place sells them. http://www.stpaulmercantile.com/index.php?action=store&page=AquaCera The Aqua Cera is supposed to have even finer micropores, and will do a better job of filtering. These filters are also cheaper than Berkey filters. According to this website, Doulton and Berkey filters are made in the same factory in England :http://www.stpaulmercantile.com/index.php?action=store&page=WaterFilters
_
"First, let me clear something up. Doulton and Berkefeld water filters are made by the same company - the Doulton-Berkefeld company. They were two companies many decades ago, but today they are one company. They continue to sell under two names due to name recognition in different countries. All of their ceramic candles are manufactured by Fairy Industrial Ceramics in England, so it doesn't matter which brand name is stamped on the bottom of the filter - they are the same." _

I have also read that Aqua Cera filters are also manufactured at the same plant. I'm not sure I could find that link again.

Anyway, there are very good options out there. Berkey isn't the only game in town.

Edited to add, I've only heard of problems with the black Berkey filters. Berkey's stellar reputation was built on the white filters.


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## kasilofhome

Please I will be going into my storage box and checking on my filters. I am greatfull that I got the at MPS. Right now I have a zero water filter going (It was given to me after I ordered but before I got my filters) I am on my last of the filters that came with it. I really want my berkley filters to work. Keep us posted. I prey that mine work. I hate having to test but our health is on the line.


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## Common Tator

Kasilofhome, Remember to check your filters regularly. They separate even with gentle handling, or even with no handling. You might want to pick a few extra zero filters, so that you can still filter water, even if your Berkey filters are defective.

We have a PUR countertop purifier, that we used for years before we got our Berkey. When it arrived, we put our shiny new stainless steel Berkey in a place of honor in the kitchen, and moved the PUR to the bathroom for tooth brushing duty. I had bought plenty of extra filters in bulk for the PUR. It is a good thing too, because we had that to fall back on when we learned that the Berkey filters were defective.


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## Common Tator

Ooooh! Some of the folks here are pretty steamed about the Berkey filter defect, and their prorated return policy! http://thesurvivalpodcast.com/forum/index.php?topic=32476.0


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## hintonlady

Do they not realize that the type of people that buy the most filters talk amongst themselves quit a bit? News travels fast amongst preppers...Not a good way to get future sales.


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## Harry Chickpea

Common Tator, thank you for re-iterating what I have said, that the Doulton filters are a different company than the one making the black Berkey filters. I may just have to try a red dye test on the Doultons I have out of curiosity. I do NOT expect them to "pass", due to the reasons I gave in another post on how I think the dye test works, which is specific to a particular trait of the NM filtration system.

I agree with you that NM was stupid to not address your concerns immediately. Once the FDA and others becoming involved, including lawyers on the scent of a class-action suit, I suspect that NM may be forced into bankruptcy and you won't have to worry about them anymore. Such is the result of stupidity in business.


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## lonelyfarmgirl

I had filters that broke maybe 5 months ago? they replaced them, no charge, no questions asked. Both sets. The new ones we are using are working, but after reading this, I will test again. I am going to get out the backup set and test those too. I wonder if they came up with the pro rate rule because so many people are calling. They are trying to salvage their profit.


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## Common Tator

Harry, To tell you the truth, they shouldn't be in business if they are selling defective filters. It's only a matter of time before someone dies because of a very avoidable infection. And it will be someone who trusted in Berkey's claims, and never heard about the defective filters. It will be someone who spent hundreds because they thought they were buying the very best water filter. It will be one of us. It was almost me

But they certainly have business insurance. Right now, there isn't anyone with authority looking over their shoulder, making them fix the problem. So they are keeping the defects a secret, and making their clientele pay a prorated fee to get defective filters replaced, sometimes with other defective filters.

I don't believe their claim that only 5% of the filters are defective. If that were the case, I might have gotten, maybe 1 defective filter. Not 10!

If it were food items that had a 5% failure rate, rather than water filters, the Govt. would force a recall. Berkey needs to do a recall of all filters that were produced during the time frame when the defective filters were produced. I don't see any other option for getting them to do the right thing. Do you?

Lonelyfarmgirl, yes, they changed their return process. They believed they were being taken advantage of by their customers who returned filters. Now I feel that I was taken advantage of by a company that promised clean drinking water and charged a huge amount of money for that promise.


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## Harry Chickpea

CT, I don't blame you in the slightest for feeling the way you do. In your shoes, I would be ripping them something brand new that normally occurs on the lower end of a digestive tract.

Until you reported the behavior when you tried to get yours replaced, I was willing to give them benefit of the doubt, even though I disagree strongly about the spew I've seen in relation to distilled water that ultimately is used to promote their filters.

I _really_ hate to say this, but it is time for you to get a personal injury attorney involved.

For those who don't understand my position, I feel a need to explain.

All of us who are in business for ourselves take on a certain amount of personal risk. It comes with the territory. However, there are a small percentage of people who live by making money off businesses that cave in and don't defend themselves against frivolous claims. I've run into them before, they are real, I could give examples and even names. The bottom line is that those of us who have any honor at all will not allow legitimate complaints to go unanswered, and we strenuously give them their due. It is INCREDIBLY hard in business to be an ongoing success. Individual situations must be handled promptly - including personal attention and a loss of money when there is obvious fault. If even 1/2 of what CT is saying is factual (not to demean CT in any way, but trying to make a larger point to those of us who have dealt with irate customers) then NM has gone rogue. When a company goes rogue, it is time to let loose the hounds before others get hurt. That grieves me.


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## Welshmom

:shocked: Wow, reading this thread sure makes me glad I have an r.o. system. Which has recently been checked via a test run at local health dept. for contaminants. 
Might suggest some of you might want to spring for the water test... could certainly be used as a third-party back up in a case, should it go that far...


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## Common Tator

Welshmom, we have an RO unit at our place in the burbs, and love it. Filters have to be replaced occasionally, and you need decent water pressure, but they are great systems.


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## Seeria

Pity to hear so many problems with these. We are traveling as we search for our homestead land so use the filters on RV campground water which can be down right DIRTY water. I tested ours and have no problem with them that I can see. this batch was bought back in August 2011. They get tossed around quite a bit as we travel. I'll run more tests here and there to keep an eye on them. Sure hope this is a one time thing, because I really love the clean looking, clean tasting water.


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## Common Tator

Seeria said:


> Sure hope this is a one time thing, because I really love the clean looking, clean tasting water.


 I hate to tell you, it is at least a two time thing. They released defective filters in 2010, and again in early 2011.

Good luck on your homestead search!


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## theberkeyguy

I would like to comment here, but want to make sure it is ok with MPS as this is his forum thread, before answering the concerns here.

theberkeyguy


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## hintonlady

theberkeyguy said:


> I would like to comment here, but want to make sure it is ok with MPS as this is his forum thread, before answering the concerns here.
> 
> theberkeyguy


I for one would be interested to hear what you have to say.

Considering some of our experiences you should expect us to be a tough crowd. :viking:


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## mypatriotsupply

theberkeyguy said:


> I would like to comment here, but want to make sure it is ok with MPS as this is his forum thread, before answering the concerns here.
> 
> theberkeyguy


It's not my forum, I'm just a sponsor. And besides I'd love your input, Jeff. And even if I didn't want your input I believe in free speech! So..comment away!


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## Common Tator

theberkeyguy said:


> I would like to comment here, but want to make sure it is ok with MPS as this is his forum thread, before answering the concerns here.
> 
> theberkeyguy


Berkeyguy, I'd be interested in reading what you have to say.


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## theberkeyguy

Thanks Matt for commenting here in the thread, just wanted to make sure it was ok to post.
I will do my best to comment in more detail by Saturday or Monday next week, as I am really swamped completing the last markdown deal we did with the Sport Berkey Water Bottles.

theberkeyguy


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## mypatriotsupply

I know the feeling brother! Fortunately we got all of our MD stuff shipped within 2-3 days, but it involved some overtime!


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## Common Tator

Berkey Guy, I just want to say that this is a public forum. Everyone is welcome, as long as they follow the rules. 

I've seen your posts in other forums, and I have to give you kudos for keeping a cool head as people who bought Berkeys and discovered that their filters were defective lost their cool.:goodjob: And I believe you are a Berkey retailer, and not the manufacturer. So I don't envy you for having to try to put a positive spin on the situation.

I think you'll find the posters here to be intelligent, friendly and helpful. Those of us who have defective filters are understandably angry. I personally feel that NMC hasn't done enough to alert their customers to the defects, and because of that people are drinking contaminated water. 

And, because people haven't been alerted to the defects, they are going past the timeframe when the filters will be replaced for free. So there they are, drinking contaminated water, thinking it's pure, because they bought a Berkey. Then one day, they look in the top chamber and see the ceramic element laying on it's side, and realize that they've been drinking contaminated water, They've been making baby formula with it. They've been providing it to elderly relatives, and their lives have all been put at risk. And, DANG! Is that why everybody is sick? And now, NMC wants to charge their credit card for replacements.

In my case, NMC changed the rules after I bought my unit. I'm sorry that they feel they were taken advantage of by their customers that learned of the defect early on. That has nothing to do with me, so why should I be punished? I relied on their claims when I bought my Berkey.

_"BerkeyÂ® Systems are the World&#8217;s Most Powerful and Cost Effective Personal Water purification Systems Providing Reliable and User-friendly Water Purification in Both Normal and Hostile Filtration Environments.

Moreover, BerkeyÂ®* systems are capable of purifying both treated water and untreated raw water from such sources as remote lakes, streams, stagnant ponds and water supplies in foreign countries*, where regulations may be substandard at best. So powerful, this system is able to remove red food coloring from water without removing the beneficial minerals your body needs. Perfect for everyday use and a must in hostile environments where electricity, water pressure or treated water may not be available. "_

I believed these claims, and bought the Berkey because my water is from a creek.

If a food company produced canned food, with only a 5% failure rate, there would be a recall of all of their food. If a car company produced a vehicle that had 5% of the cars steering wheels come off in the drivers hands when the car was only 6 months old, they would shorten the warranty period to exclude this defect, of course.:bash: No? That's what NMC did with the Berkeys, right? Of course, the car manufacturer would issue a recall, and if they didn't, the government would force it.

NMC needs to do a complete recall of the filters produced during the period when the defective filters were produced.

Edited to add: I recently purchased Excederin at Costco. Then it was discovered that there was a problem, something to do with other types of pills that may have gotten mixed in, or some such. I first saw this on the evening news. I read about it online in several news articles. I received a letter alerting me to this from my retailer, because their records showed that I had purchased that product, AND I received a robo call from Costco alerting me to the problem.

What has NMC done to alert their customers? I didn't see this on the evening news. I didn't read articles about it. I didn't get a letter. I didn't get a phone call. I learned about it months after NMC became aware of the defects, not from them, but from another poster right here in this forum. And the whole time that NMC kept this secret, I was drinking contaminated water. SHAME on them!


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## hintonlady

Common Tator said:


> And, because people haven't been alerted to the defects, they are going past the timeframe when the filters will be replaced for free. So there they are, drinking contaminated water, thinking it's pure, because they bought a Berkey. Then one day, they look in the top chamber and see the ceramic element laying on it's side, and realize that they've been drinking contaminated water, *They've been making baby formula with it*. They've been providing it to elderly relatives, and their lives have all been put at risk. And, DANG! Is that why everybody is sick? And now, NMC wants to charge their credit card for replacements.


I am FURIOUS :flame: beyond words. This was me and I JUST realized it. We have "questionable" well water.

Had anything happened to my precious "bug" and goodness forbid she lost her life I would have hidden outside of NMC with a sniper rifle after researching who their administration were. I'm not kidding either. Don't care what agency snoops on this site, don't care what list it puts me on. 

Absolutely no offense directed toward Matt or berkey guy, none whatsoever. I am angry at NMC.


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## Common Tator

I was thinking of you when I wrote that Hintonlady. But I suspect that there are hundreds if not thousands of babies drinking formula that was made with unfiltered water because of the filter defect. It is a scarey thought, and unfortunately, a reality. Anyone with a compromised immune system is also highly susceptible, as are people who's digestive systems have been compromised, just as mine was by surgery.


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## tkrabec

Common Tator said:


> I was thinking of you when I wrote that Hintonlady. But I suspect that there are hundreds if not thousands of babies drinking formula that was made with unfiltered water because of the filter defect. It is a scarey thought, and unfortunately, a reality. Anyone with a compromised immune system is also highly susceptible, as are people who's digestive systems have been compromised, just as mine was by surgery.


I does not matter about your immune system, They are selling a product that claims to remove impurities from the water, and provide safe drinking water. They should have done something akin to Tylenol's recall back in the 80's (?) and been upfront regardless of the cost. 
I'm not currently a consumer of their products, but hearing how they treat their customers & the complete lack of responsibility I probably will not be one of their customers anytime in the near to distant future.


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## NamasteMama

I manufacture products (not like this) we have insurance that covers a recall, so it would not cost us anything to recall a product. Berkey should have the same.


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## Common Tator

NamasteMama said:


> I manufacture products (not like this) we have insurance that covers a recall, so it would not cost us anything to recall a product. Berkey should have the same.


I don't understand NMC's conduct here. Especially where people's health and safety are at risk every day that people are drinking from defective filters.


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## stanb999

People... they sell a gimmick product.

Get used to it. Buy the right thing for your family.


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## stanb999

hintonlady said:


> I am FURIOUS :flame: beyond words. This was me and I JUST realized it. We have "questionable" well water.
> 
> Had anything happened to my precious "bug" and goodness forbid she lost her life I would have hidden outside of NMC with a sniper rifle after researching who their administration were. I'm not kidding either. Don't care what agency snoops on this site, don't care what list it puts me on.
> 
> Absolutely no offense directed toward Matt or berkey guy, none whatsoever. I am angry at NMC.


My dear,

Take a drive to the local lowes. Buy three filters.

First.
Large whole house sediment filter like this.

http://www.lowes.com/pd_89376-59019...4935907__s?Ntt=water+filter&page=2&facetInfo=


With these filters. Note the 5 dollars each cost...
http://www.lowes.com/pd_149010-4335...4935907__s?Ntt=water+filter&page=2&facetInfo=



Next get one of these. It uses UV to kill all bacteria and other live contaminants. You need this if the well is shallow or surface water gets in.

http://www.purauv.com/purauv20.htm

The above will make all the water in the house potable, even if from a river, pond, or stream.

Next for your little ones and you of course. Get an under sink slow flow filter.
They come with the little faucet and hook right into your water line. You want the one that says it will remove 99.99% lead and 98% mercury. This is a real deal filter. I can't find it online but they have them in the store. The filter you want is 6" or so around and 10" or so long. Make sure it says it will remove the lead and mercury.



This was the setup we had when we lived in the coal regions with mine run off for water. Before the filter the water was orange, like tang with specks of stuff. After the initial filters it was clear and would pass for potable. Yes it was tested many times. The state DEP was testing it for mine reclamation 4 times a year for a few years. They tested it to PPBillion on many of the common and not so common aliments. I can tell you the first set of filters removed about 99% of everything. Leaving just a bit of copper, aluminium, mercury, lead, and chromium. They were all below the "acceptable" levels.

Well one time the DEP guy calls and leaves me a message that the sample was high for lead..(he knew we had a baby on formula. and called right away. Nice I thought). Anyway so I got the under sink filter that removes heavy metals. I'd already installed it when he called later that evening. He was glad. He suggested that maybe it was just mixed samples that caused the issue but he wanted to let me know right away. He also asked if he could test the water after the filters to see if they are doing what they claim. (to this point I hadn't let them test after the filters. didn't make sense to me to check for contaminants after filtering.) So on the next test he did all three locations....

At pump, non-potable for minerals, turbidity, coliform bacteria.
After whole house filters. Potable with min. spikes in minerals but below acceptable levels.
At sink post secondary filter. Potable only iron was detected in PP Billion. Lead, mercury, aluminium, copper, chromium... not detected.


My dear the system will cost a few hundred bucks. Do it.


----------



## hintonlady

*Long post*

This whole thing has jarred an OLD memory. When I was 17 in or around 1991 I was looking for a job. I answered an ad in the paper and they scheduled an interview. Ad was vague and said you didnât need experience. I showed up at the appropriate time and was ushered into a room that had 30 other people sitting in rows of chairs. I was too young and naÃ¯ve to leave. An hour and a half later I had been explained the wonders of a new water filtration system. They even demonstrated it with red dyeâ¦ The deal was that you could sell them and hire people to sell them under you and make a profit from them as well. Total pyramid scheme.

After all of this drama I am totally disenchanted with my berkey. Wish I had never bought it. Even IF the new filters work I will always be waiting for the day they will inevitably fail early, more than likely out of prorate date. Every time I use the darn thing will just add insult to injury. Every time I walk by it I remember how ripped off I feel. I will not ever pay for replacement filters. When my new set is installed it will be the last set. I will eat the rather high cost of the system and move on to a new product from elsewhere when the time comes. I refuse to line their pockets with a filter purchase even if I get stuck with the initial investment. Lesson learned.

Short, semi-off topic drift. My cousin was a member of a health club. His locker was broken in to and his property was stolen. The gym said âtoo badâ because they had a sign about not leaving valuables. Well, it turned out that the police had been there numerous times about break ins in a short period of time. My uncle was mad and did some research. As it turns out the gym was guilty of willful negligence (or something of that nature). Although the gym had a warning sign they were also obligated to let their members know about the safety issue with the break ins. Something simple like a sign on locker room doors informing people to take extra precautions. No biggie. By hiding the facts about the break in when it could have prevented harm to members they opened themselves up for legal issues.

Laws vary from state to state. There are several types of negligence. Court case results vary greatly between judge officiated or jury trials. Can a case be filed in the purchasers state and state of purchase or would they have to be filed in NMCâs state? Lots of factors.

HOWEVER, at a minimum NMC could have made a small blurb on their website warning their customers. As a sign of good faith they could have tried to send out mass emails just to cover their arses. Especially since they market a product that some people trust their lives with due to the way they âpitchâ it.

What IF someone had lost their life and their family was able to get a jury trial? Imagine the serious consequences. Although the warranty on the product says they are not liable I wonder what a court of law would have to say about that? Just because their lawyer told them to write the warranty does not mean it is binding with the consumer like a contract. I think at this point it is safe to assume they LIED about the failure rate.

Finally, to top off this long post. While I realize they had accredited labs test their filters I wonder what would happen at an independent lab with filters bought for that purpose. (rather than hand selected for the test). One chemical they say their product removes from water is atrazine, a nasty farm chemical, plentiful in my wellâ¦ If I added a tablespoon of atrazine to my system that passes a red dye test how much atrazine would get filtered out? If youâre supposed to use a tablespoon of red dye why not the same amount of everything else their product is supposed to remove? What then? Were their tests performed on pre-treated city water, dirty creek water or contaminated farm well waterâ¦?

Just sayinâ


----------



## hintonlady

Thnaks stan, will research that for sure.


----------



## stanb999

hintonlady said:


> Thnaks stan, will research that for sure.


If you need any help just ask. 

We had stuff that was in the well, lots of it... and turned it into water. lol


----------



## Common Tator

Stan, now that I know that you are reading this thread, I want to thank you again for alerting us to the Berkey filter malfunction.


----------



## Harry Chickpea

Stan, what you are showing works - sorta. That is not to disparage your system at all, but many situations are different. I get water from our creek. It gets pumped uphill and into a poly cistern. I have a similar filter body to what you show, one that is inline just before the water hits the cistern. I learned real fast that the 2 micron filters would clog on a single fill. I changed to a 5 micron "yarn" filter (cost is about the same, but they can be cleaned and re-used). However, using either type of filter, there was distinct blow-by. The cistern holds 1100 gallons. I can sediment some of that blow-by out with time and bleach. There is enough remaining dirt that I have to clean the bottom at least once or twice a year. I then use a SECOND 5 micron filter under the house. That filter gets noticeably dirty, and needs periodic replacement, but between the three processes, the water is clear.

Only then does the water go into the Berkey tank and Doulton filters for conversion to drinking water. The Doultons require quick cleaning about once every 45 days or so. and a serious cleaning a couple times a year.

I like the ultraviolet sanitizing, but the bulbs become less effective over time, even though they look OK. For that reason, it is a concern. It obviously requires power to work as well. On a funky municipal system, or a well that provided relatively clear water, your system looks like it would be great. For us, not so much. I want that 1 micron filtration that takes out the nasties, and I want that 1 to 5 micron dirt kept out of my water.


----------



## where I want to

I was going to mention some of the same things about whole house filters mentioned above. 
I get water out of a creek that is heavily silted with clay which is notoriously hard to filter out. I have a 30 micron, then a twenty, then a 5 micron in line followed by a UV filter. I still have some sediment. But I have been told that the serious buggies in my area are caught by the UV if there is s 5 micron filter. Without the filter, the UV can not catch the baddies.
The real issue is that without power, you do not have treated water and running it without the treatment, your pipes are exposed to contamination.
Basically, if you have a situation where the power is off for a long time, you need a back up anyway.


----------



## stanb999

Harry Chickpea said:


> Stan, what you are showing works - sorta. That is not to disparage your system at all, but many situations are different. I get water from our creek. It gets pumped uphill and into a poly cistern. I have a similar filter body to what you show, one that is inline just before the water hits the cistern. I learned real fast that the 2 micron filters would clog on a single fill. I changed to a 5 micron "yarn" filter (cost is about the same, but they can be cleaned and re-used). However, using either type of filter, there was distinct blow-by. The cistern holds 1100 gallons. I can sediment some of that blow-by out with time and bleach. There is enough remaining dirt that I have to clean the bottom at least once or twice a year. I then use a SECOND 5 micron filter under the house. That filter gets noticeably dirty, and needs periodic replacement, but between the three processes, the water is clear.
> 
> Only then does the water go into the Berkey tank and Doulton filters for conversion to drinking water. The Doultons require quick cleaning about once every 45 days or so. and a serious cleaning a couple times a year.
> 
> I like the ultraviolet sanitizing, but the bulbs become less effective over time, even though they look OK. For that reason, it is a concern. It obviously requires power to work as well. On a funky municipal system, or a well that provided relatively clear water, your system looks like it would be great. For us, not so much. I want that 1 micron filtration that takes out the nasties, and I want that 1 to 5 micron dirt kept out of my water.


I didn't mention how often I had to change the filters... LOL

I set them up as dual filters but not inline. Basically a t then the two filters then back to the t. They were after the pressure tank. The pressure tank had to be flushed when I changed the filters... They lasted about 3 months. Sounds expensive but really it's less then 50 bucks a year.

To true on the bulb. It was rated for 1 year and had a timer. When we lost power we lost the pump. So no threat there.


The under sink was 1 micron I believe. It was huge with very little flow. But for us it was just a secondary carbon... 

We had some gnarly water. But with a little investment it was made superior to municipal water most drink... And much better than the bottled water. Bottled water only needs to pass as drinkable nothing special about it at all.


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## Welshmom

Hey folks, just wanted to chime in here. I'm not a plumber or a well expert, but-
When we moved here, the water was tested by the state and found to have atrazine and NITRATES. Both over safe limits. We did all the research. There is NO filter on the market that can remove nitrates. Nitrates (and maybe other yuckies?) can ONLY be removed by reverse osmosis systems. So we forked out the money, and put in an r.o. system. 
My point is don't just go to the store and start buying filters off the shelf before you really _know_ what is actually in your water. You could wind right back up in the position you are in now, drinking water you _thought_ was safe...


----------



## stanb999

Welshmom said:


> Hey folks, just wanted to chime in here. I'm not a plumber or a well expert, but-
> When we moved here, the water was tested by the state and found to have atrazine and NITRATES. Both over safe limits. We did all the research. There is NO filter on the market that can remove nitrates. Nitrates (and maybe other yuckies?) can ONLY be removed by reverse osmosis systems. So we forked out the money, and put in an r.o. system.
> My point is don't just go to the store and start buying filters off the shelf before you really _know_ what is actually in your water. You could wind right back up in the position you are in now, drinking water you _thought_ was safe...


I totally agree. 
1. If you have questions. Get your water tested. Professionally. Not one of those trying to sell you a softener. Not one of those you send it in. The test will cost a bit but it's worth the piece of mind. 

2. Get the filters or system of filters you need to maintain clean safe drinking water for your family. If you need a system. Keep up with the maintenance.


P.S. Fly-by-night industries shouldn't be trusted for real drinking water issues and that was the reason I posted to this thread. If all you need is to make safe water... "drinkable" then anything will do. Even if the difference is in your head and not your water.


----------



## Common Tator

In the early '80's, I had a job running a peritoneal dialysis machine. It ran fluids directly into the patient's peritoneal cavity. There was an IV bag of solution that was hooked up to water after it was run through a reverse osmosis system, and a UV light. That made the water sterile enough to run into the human abdominal cavity. The RO unit only had three stages. The better ones these days have 5.

If you have a good gravity fed water system at your house, you can install a RO unit, and never worry about losing your good, pure water in a power outage.

I think this is the unit we have at our house in the burbs. http://www.costco.com/Browse/Product.aspx?Prodid=10040488&whse=BC&topnav=&browse=&lang=en-US Only four of the filters show in the picture. The fifth is in line. I installed it myself, and if I can do it, you can too. We are extremely happy with it.

The reasons we haven't installed one at the ranch are that we need better prefilters. We would be going through filters extremely fast. Also, the house isn't heated when we aren't there stoking the wood stove. we are afraid that if we put an RO unit in, it could freeze, and possibly burst. It occurs to me as I write this that if we are going to be gone for any length of time in the winter, we could turn off the water to the house and drain the system.

If you choose to go this route, you need to add replacement filters to your preps.


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## Harry Chickpea

Good points about the atrazine (which is more a suburbia problem than a country problem) and nitrates. However, both concerns do need to be put in perspective.

I hate atrazine. The stuff was regularly stuck in products similar to weed-n-feed in south Florida, to the point that there are levels in most of the soils. Some studies link it to declining frog populations. I have not seen any documented effect on humans, but I've got a bad feeling even though I'm usually blase about chemicals.

Nitrates. These are only a problem for a small segment of the population. Hunter's salt is a nitrate. Some meat products were packed for years using nitrate salts. If you aren't part of the small group affected, they aren't worth being concerned about.

A reminder that distillation will also remove atrazine and nitrates.


----------



## Common Tator

I started a thread in CF to remind people to test their filters. 

Darren said:


Darren said:


> I've been emailing a contact at fairey ceramics who manufactures the filters. They claim the adhesive on their filters has never failed. They think it may be a competitor's product. Can anyone supply a photo of the original packaging from one of the failed filters?


Very interesting indeed!


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## mypatriotsupply

I personally think this thread has gotten a little out of hand. Most of all of the comments are spoken in present tense, implying that there is still a problem with the production process, which I'm just not seeing. I've tested many recent batches of filters - at my own expense at that - and have had no failures. I have to make a conscious effort to not take offense to the "fly-by-night" industries comment. That implies a "here today, gone tomorrow" type of company, which NMC is not. 

Debate the effectiveness of one filtration system over another all day - and there are many good points to be made by that type of debate. I'm not saying they are the best system in the word, but I think that for the job they do and the price range they come in, they are a heck of a lot better than some of the other options I've experimented with. You want to talk "fly-by-night", look at the company who basically copied every single thing about the Berkey products and marketing themselves as a cheaper solution. They do say imitation is the sincerest form of flattery.

But to imply that NCM shouldn't even be in business because of this one bad batch is ridiculous. Was there a break down in the communication of the problem to the effected customers? Possibly. Did they take immediate action to correct the problem in the manufacturing process? Absolutely. 

But to say they should have gone on nationwide TV and done a recall? The only people who've probably even heard of a Berkey before are people of similar mindsets as those on this board. They aren't sold in big-box stores. A nationwide alert in that fashion would not be appropriate because this isn't a common household product, like Tylenol is. 

The problem, as I understand it, that NMC had with their previously very relaxed exchange policy was that there was unfounded mass hysteria - caused in most part by a variety of different internet forums and threads like this (which again in my opinion has got out of hand) and they received a FLOOD of filter exchange requests. They were swapping out filters that were never bad, not in the effected date range, or filters that had been used for months because of the mass hysteria. People got scared and people were coming out of the woodwork asking for free replacements...after a while of providing the free replacements they realized that only a small percentage of what they were replacing was actually bad and they were losing a TON of money from a bunch of hysterical folks who had no defective units, or just people who just decided to plain take advantage of their commitment to customer service. At that time they starting enforcing the more strict exchange policy we see now.

Like I've said in other threads on this topic, and I've almost exhausted myself saying it, STUFF happens! It's the very reason we are preppers. To practice prepping and then expect that nothing can go wrong with our preps is a bit counter-intuitive if you ask me. We should NEVER have the expectation that there *could* never be anything wrong, and we should stay diligent, even with the products that have stellar reputations. 

I apologize in advance - I've tried my best to be a rational person who avoids too much conflict on this forum. While I agree with the right of those effected to be upset, I just couldn't sit by and watch this spiral without throwing in my own personal thoughts. And that is all they are, I don't speak for NMC - only myself.

Makes me a little nervous, though, to see the lynch mob so readily amassing. We have a lot of quality control checks on our products...but what if one of our products that we make in-house ended up with a defect? What if we sent out a batch of something that just didn't do what it was supposed to do, even though I preach quality each and every day to my staff and we check everything twice? To say it could never happen would be foolish, and that's why we pay attention to quality as much as we do. But if it did happen, and a product we provided didn't perform to standards...would some of you get in line and start bashing me as you have NMC?

I would sure like to believe that is not the case. We've done a darn good job at establishing our reputation (which can be seen by picking any random post on the internet that mentions MPS). But no company is immune from mistakes happening. 

All I'm asking is that we put this into a bit more perspective. Yes, it is very important when you're dealing with water to have something functioning in the manner it is intended to help prevent you from getting sick. I trust my Jeep to get me back and forth to work every day without an essential piece falling off and causing a wreck - but I still take it to the mechanic every once in a while. 

There have been companies who put out products that actually did kill people, and they are still in existence. Not aware of anyone dying or even getting a serious medical problem from the malfunction of the bad batch of filters, but yet apparently they should not remain in business?

I agree the OP has every right to be upset. From what I understand from reading the posts, the return/exchange process with NCM isn't complete yet, so its a bit premature to even know how this will play out for her. 

But scaring people by causing this type of mass hysteria is the very reason that made NCM tighten up their exchange policy. Let's not speak about this in the present tense, as I've not seen any evidence this issue is still happening with the new filters coming out of the factory. Let's not talk about it an absolute terms, like its some sort of guarantee this will happen to you. Let's not call a company that actually corrected the problem "fly-by-night". Be mad, disagree, debate the finer points of water filtration, but at least be fair. That's all I'm saying.


----------



## where I want to

stanb999 said:


> I didn't mention how often I had to change the filters... LOL
> 
> 
> 
> To true on the bulb. It was rated for 1 year and had a timer. When we lost power we lost the pump. So no threat there.


Unfortunately, that's what I assumed too. The water ran until the pressure tank was used up- but the UV filter was after the a pressure tank so the UV was not powered although the water kept flowing for awhile from the pressure tank. 
I didn't really think about this as I had a back up generator. When the water stopped, I found that the generator did not power either the pump or the pump house (read UV filter.) In my case, it is not chemical issues but bacterial and other biological contamination.
Opps........ unfiltered water into the house pipes. 
Even if no pump, you do need water treated some how. Either bottled or gravity filtered. So that is why I had the Berkey. And I was foolish enough to get slack on replacing the UV bulb because I relied on the Berkey. Oh well- what doesn't kill you makes you stronger (or at least wiser.)


----------



## where I want to

Mypatriotsupply- none of the filters I have were made in the questionable periods. That is why I hesitated to post about my personal experience. But it is why I'm rather nervous about relying on the product. 
I have not asked for a refund nor do I intend to do so. I had the Berkey in storage for a couple of years before a bit of laziness made me lax about maintaining my whole house filter. So I dug out the Berkey and tried it. Since then I have bought back up filters to have when I need them. 
I wonder if the sealant if subject to failure simply due to age- in other words, that they can't be stored for long. It would be nice to know that they can be but at least they should have an expiration date if not.


----------



## Common Tator

MPS, I have the greatest respect for you, but we are going to have to agree to disagree. Read this thread. Posters #s 2, 9, and 47 have already had the new filters fail. http://www.survivalistboards.com/showthread.php?t=203110

And here, post #2, (bought in August, so I'm assuming it's the new filters). So the new filters are failing too. http://thesurvivalpodcast.com/forum/index.php?topic=32476.0

As for dealing with NMC, I left a message last week for a manager to call me back. The ball is in their court, and I'm not hopeful that I will ever get a call back. When I first called them in December after I did my first red food color test, and left a voice mail message, they never returned that call either. So I'll keep calling, and hopefully, I'll get to talk to someone in authority. But the people that they have answering the phones don't have the authority to resolve any of these issues.

In the mean time, I've contacted the CDC, the FDA (twice) the CPSC, the EPA, and finally the FTC. I have filed a complaint with the Federal Trade Commission. By the way, they recommend that we each contact our state's Attorney General. If NMC isn't willing to respond to our individual complaints, perhaps they will listen to state and federal regulators. 

I take this very seriously. I fear that people will be hurt or die because they are drinking unfiltered water from their Berkeys. And I don't think this thread is out of hand.

So I'll keep hammering away about the defective filter issue. There are still people out there who don't know bout it. 

I am being VERY public about this because I don't want anyone to go through what I went through. NMC STILL has yet to notify their customers of the defects, even the customers who bought filters that were produced during the periods when there were known defects. Someone has to got the word out, and they aren't willing. 

And the people who buy the filters don't necessarily visit these forums. They see the ads in magazines. I saw them for many years before buying mine.

I have constant reminders of NMC and the defective filters. I'm not just talking about the surgery and recovery either. I have a Berkey housing, huge and chrome and useless, taking up space. I can't use it. I have 10 defective filters I can't use either. I have to stop by the business office at the hospital every time either Hubby or I get paid, and write a check for whatever we can afford to pay down my bill. Fortunately, we have health insurance, so we are hopeful we can have the bill paid off in a matter of months. Otherwise, we would have a bill that we probably couldn't pay off in our lifetimes.


----------



## mypatriotsupply

where I want to said:


> Mypatriotsupply- none of the filters I have were made in the questionable periods. That is why I hesitated to post about my personal experience. But it is why I'm rather nervous about relying on the product.
> I have not asked for a refund nor do I intend to do so. I had the Berkey in storage for a couple of years before a bit of laziness made me lax about maintaining my whole house filter. So I dug out the Berkey and tried it. Since then I have bought back up filters to have when I need them.
> I wonder if the sealant if subject to failure simply due to age- in other words, that they can't be stored for long. It would be nice to know that they can be but at least they should have an expiration date if not.


I don't believe the sealant issue has anything to do with age, that was directly related to the defect.


----------



## stanb999

mypatriotsupply said:


> I personally think this thread has gotten a little out of hand. Most of all of the comments are spoken in present tense, implying that there is still a problem with the production process, which I'm just not seeing. I've tested many recent batches of filters - at my own expense at that - and have had no failures. I have to make a conscious effort to not take offense to the "fly-by-night" industries comment. That implies a "here today, gone tomorrow" type of company, which NMC is not.
> 
> Debate the effectiveness of one filtration system over another all day - and there are many good points to be made by that type of debate. I'm not saying they are the best system in the word, but I think that for the job they do and the price range they come in, they are a heck of a lot better than some of the other options I've experimented with. You want to talk "fly-by-night", look at the company who basically copied every single thing about the Berkey products and marketing themselves as a cheaper solution. They do say imitation is the sincerest form of flattery.
> 
> But to imply that NCM shouldn't even be in business because of this one bad batch is ridiculous. Was there a break down in the communication of the problem to the effected customers? Possibly. Did they take immediate action to correct the problem in the manufacturing process? Absolutely.
> 
> But to say they should have gone on nationwide TV and done a recall? The only people who've probably even heard of a Berkey before are people of similar mindsets as those on this board. They aren't sold in big-box stores. A nationwide alert in that fashion would not be appropriate because this isn't a common household product, like Tylenol is.
> 
> The problem, as I understand it, that NMC had with their previously very relaxed exchange policy was that there was unfounded mass hysteria - caused in most part by a variety of different internet forums and threads like this (which again in my opinion has got out of hand) and they received a FLOOD of filter exchange requests. They were swapping out filters that were never bad, not in the effected date range, or filters that had been used for months because of the mass hysteria. People got scared and people were coming out of the woodwork asking for free replacements...after a while of providing the free replacements they realized that only a small percentage of what they were replacing was actually bad and they were losing a TON of money from a bunch of hysterical folks who had no defective units, or just people who just decided to plain take advantage of their commitment to customer service. At that time they starting enforcing the more strict exchange policy we see now.
> 
> Like I've said in other threads on this topic, and I've almost exhausted myself saying it, STUFF happens! It's the very reason we are preppers. To practice prepping and then expect that nothing can go wrong with our preps is a bit counter-intuitive if you ask me. We should NEVER have the expectation that there *could* never be anything wrong, and we should stay diligent, even with the products that have stellar reputations.
> 
> I apologize in advance - I've tried my best to be a rational person who avoids too much conflict on this forum. While I agree with the right of those effected to be upset, I just couldn't sit by and watch this spiral without throwing in my own personal thoughts. And that is all they are, I don't speak for NMC - only myself.
> 
> Makes me a little nervous, though, to see the lynch mob so readily amassing. We have a lot of quality control checks on our products...but what if one of our products that we make in-house ended up with a defect? What if we sent out a batch of something that just didn't do what it was supposed to do, even though I preach quality each and every day to my staff and we check everything twice? To say it could never happen would be foolish, and that's why we pay attention to quality as much as we do. But if it did happen, and a product we provided didn't perform to standards...would some of you get in line and start bashing me as you have NMC?
> 
> I would sure like to believe that is not the case. We've done a darn good job at establishing our reputation (which can be seen by picking any random post on the internet that mentions MPS). But no company is immune from mistakes happening.
> 
> All I'm asking is that we put this into a bit more perspective. Yes, it is very important when you're dealing with water to have something functioning in the manner it is intended to help prevent you from getting sick. I trust my Jeep to get me back and forth to work every day without an essential piece falling off and causing a wreck - but I still take it to the mechanic every once in a while.
> 
> There have been companies who put out products that actually did kill people, and they are still in existence. Not aware of anyone dying or even getting a serious medical problem from the malfunction of the bad batch of filters, but yet apparently they should not remain in business?
> 
> I agree the OP has every right to be upset. From what I understand from reading the posts, the return/exchange process with NCM isn't complete yet, so its a bit premature to even know how this will play out for her.
> 
> But scaring people by causing this type of mass hysteria is the very reason that made NCM tighten up their exchange policy. Let's not speak about this in the present tense, as I've not seen any evidence this issue is still happening with the new filters coming out of the factory. Let's not talk about it an absolute terms, like its some sort of guarantee this will happen to you. Let's not call a company that actually corrected the problem "fly-by-night". Be mad, disagree, debate the finer points of water filtration, but at least be fair. That's all I'm saying.



Square this statement. From their site. With the reality that a 2 micron hole will contaminate a whole batch. Loose means gap. Heck it can be glued and still have a gap.

Berkey Purifier vs common water filter

There are two different classification standards for water treatment devices.

The first classification is a water filter, to meet this standard a water treatment device must remove at least 99.99% of pathogenic bacteria. This is known in the water filter industry as a log 4 reduction.

The second classification is a water purifier, to meet this standard a water treatment device must remove at least 99.9999% of pathogenic bacteria (log 6 reduction). In addition the water purifier must be capable of reducing viruses by at least 99.999% (log 5 reduction).

All Berkey systems that contain the Black Berkey elements are classified as purifiers. In fact Berkey Purifiers remove 99.9999999% (log 9 reduction) of pathogenic bacteria. To our knowledge no other water filtration device in the world can match that claim.

Please check our competition and see for yourself what classification they claim. Some are able to reach the level of purification using harsh chemicals like iodine or chlorinating tablets. We use no chemicals only simple microfiltration coupled with our unique ionic adsorbtion process. These two processes combined offer unmatched abilities.


P.S. they are classified as water filters...Brita? They wish not to test to see if they do better.


----------



## mypatriotsupply

Well like I said in that post, I don't speak for NMC. To speak to a statement they have listed on their web site would be irresponsible. My point was simply to discourage some of the more outrageous statements made in various posts because I don't think those are fair statements to make.


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## Owldancer

MPS, Question for you, can you find out if there is a use by time for the filters?

Second, if I have read correctly you have personally tested current filters (at your own expense, and in the time period since the problem has been corrected) and not found any problems with the filters.

So if I understand correctly, My Patriot Supply only has units and filters that have been made after the fix was in production?


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## logbuilder

I'm thinking that I need some food grade sealant in my preps. I try to be self sufficient when possible.

I've read that others have repaired their filters with this stuff.

www.amazon.com/00688-Household-Waterproof-Adhesive-2-8-Ounce/dp/B000KE4PBQ


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## Common Tator

logbuilder said:


> I'm thinking that I need some food grade sealant in my preps. I try to be self sufficient when possible.
> 
> I've read that others have repaired their filters with this stuff.
> 
> www.amazon.com/00688-Household-Waterproof-Adhesive-2-8-Ounce/dp/B000KE4PBQ


Is that stuff food grade?


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## jamala

Thanks Matt for your input.


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## Harry Chickpea

"Makes me a little nervous, though, to see the lynch mob so readily amassing. We have a lot of quality control checks on our products...but what if one of our products that we make in-house ended up with a defect? What if we sent out a batch of something that just didn't do what it was supposed to do, even though I preach quality each and every day to my staff and we check everything twice? To say it could never happen would be foolish, and that's why we pay attention to quality as much as we do. But if it did happen, and a product we provided didn't perform to standards...would some of you get in line and start bashing me as you have NMC?"

What you are commenting on is product liability. The cost of covering a company from product liability claims is generally built in to the product price. _The developer of a product is responsible for designing the product so it won't fail, or if it does fail it will give warning or do so in a safe way._ Look at auto manufacture. Notice how automobile deaths have continued to go down and down, even though there are more cars on the road and more miles driven. Train accidents that kill crews are super-rare compared to the 1800s. Airplanes rarely fail these days. We must face the fact that a ceramic water filter is a VERY simple product in comparison. What can possibly go wrong with it? The ceramic could break, the mix used to make it could have holes, and the base could come loose from the filter. This isn't rocket science. 

I will say that I have glue joints fail. It can happen because I'm not careful and because I use old glue and don't prep properly. If I am making something where I don't trust the joint, I glue and screw, or peg, or nail, or do some other redundant attachment. If NMCL actually makes the filters, then they have similar options and have had them since startup.

Lynch mob? Outrageous statements? I too disagree. What is outrageous is the response from NMCL. You are seeing the free market in action when defects cannot be hidden, they way they could before the internet. I have not seen any libelous statements.

As for people panicking and sending good filters back for exchange? Part of the cost of business. Real manufacturing cost (NMCL claims to MAKE the filters) is minimal compared to retail price, and a manufacturer has the molds and equipment that are fixed inventory, reducing replacement costs to the costs of materials, energy costs, and shipping. If the company is bulk buying from another manufacturer, then there is legal recourse there for defective products.

A proactive response might have been as simple as sending customers tiny packets of food grade sealant so that bad filters could be fixed and good ones get a double layer of safety.

Business is business. If customers can't be satisfied businesses fail. One dissatisfied customer left untended will tell one hundred. Those who are overly concerned about masses of customers coming back at them need to rethink their business model. Those who fear customers need to remember the old axiom "If you can't stand the heat, get out of the kitchen."


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## logbuilder

Common Tator said:


> Is that stuff food grade?


It doesn't specifically say food grade but it is what others have used to fix them. It is for fish tanks and it specifically says it is non-toxic for the fish. I figure that if it will not harm a guppy that lives in the water 24/7 it should be safe enough for me. My stored filters are for SHTF use. That sealant will be the least of my worries in that situation.


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## lonelyfarmgirl

I do not think this thread is out of line. The OP had a serious medical complication due to failing filters and the company had responded poorly.
I had filters fail out of the first group, so I don't know how long we drank the water here, which by the way is filled with ag-runoff. The farm wives around here all die before their husbands of breast cancer for a reason. I don't want to be one of those. (Check the local stats, I've watched wife after wife after wife die here of cancer)

They did replace my filters free of charge, but upon viewing the broken filter, it was simply glued into a very shallow base. Poor design in my opinion. If they are making these, they could have been molded around a center pin, or had a plastic band around the top to help hold them stable. Every time I clean the thing, they jiggle around, and I worry about the glue seal. So many thousands of people depend on these things. 

They claim that people will be safe drinking stagnant river water in third world countries, that would otherwise kill you. If you can't move it around in your modern kitchen without them popping loose or breaking off, how the heck could someone in the bush use one without breaking it? I think the company needs to step up, because right now, they are acting like a bunch of babies that got tattled on.

Just my opinion.


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## Our Little Farm

I disagree with you MPS. I think this thread needed to be said.

How would you feel if you were giving creek water 'purified' by a Berkey system to young children or a baby, only to realize that the filters had failed.


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## mypatriotsupply

I don't disagree that the OP, and anyone else impacted by this issue had a right to be upset. I would be, too. Where I think the post went out of line was when it was said that they shouldn't even be in business any more, a nationwide tv recall should have taken place, referring to a company as "fly-by-night" because a mistake was made, and all of the talk in present tense, which implies that the problem in manufacturing hasn't been corrected. Those are the things I took issue with. I do not take an issue with the fact that a problem was pointed out, or the that the finer points of different filtration methods were being mentioned, or even the suggestion by some that they didn't believe the company did enough to warn people who could have been impacted by the problem. That is all fair discussion in my mind, and I would never dream of limiting any persons opinion on the topic - I just had to interject my own opinion, which is that I didn't believe some of the statements were fair to make and that I disagree with how some of them are being presented. I personally don't believe it accurately reflects the situation as a whole - but that is only my opinion. 

In no way am I saying the situation is not serious - just in my opinion I don't think its fair to go to extremes and call for an end of a company, and to imply the overall product is a reflection of a one time problem. I think what has been lost is remembering that before the issue with the batch of filters that had a percentage of failures we heard absolutely nothing like this in discussions of the Berkey product before. After that batch with some went out of circulation, I've seen nothing but the results I would expect to see from the Berkey product - the results that I have personally seen in my own home and office as a person who has owned and used daily one Berkey product or another for almost 5 years. 

Owldancer: I'm getting the information you requested on the "best buy" date question, but to answer your other two questions yes, MPS only has filters that are past the date in question, and I have - at my own expense - tested around a dozen sets of filters and have not seen a single failure.

If I had ANY legitimate concerns about the quality of the filters that have come out past the date in question, I would NOT sell the product. There are many other products out there with similar, if not greater profit margins that I could sell to make a buck. In fact when all of this started I contacted several companies and either was given or purchased a sample product to set up side by side with the Berkey and I was dismayed with the results of the units I tested. 

If I had any evidence that this was an on-going problem, or there was a long term quality control problem with the product I would drop it like a hot potato and apologize till I was blue in the face that I got mixed up with that product. But I'm not seeing it as either an on-going or long term problem. And that is all I hope to convey to the people on this forum.


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## City Bound

If the chinese are manufacturing these filters, i would not trust them at all.


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## Common Tator

Harry Chickpea said:


> Business is business. If customers can't be satisfied businesses fail. One dissatisfied customer left untended will tell one hundred. Those who are overly concerned about masses of customers coming back at them need to rethink their business model. Those who fear customers need to remember the old axiom "If you can't stand the heat, get out of the kitchen."


Amen!

But I didn't start this thread as a gripefest. I started it because this is critical to the health of out fellow HT members, who may be unaware of the defective filters, and may be drinking unfiltered water.

If NMC would step up to the plate, tell their customers of the defect, and do a recall, I'll shut up and leave them in peace.


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## hintonlady

Maybe it isn't a big deal...I can't speak for others.

What I do know though is that I have lost trust in the company. Just like a personal relationship, once the trust is gone there isn't much there. If someone I loved did me wrong a sincere apology and better behavior (in good faith) would go a long way.

I fully understand the thightening up of returns due to abuse. What I do not apprciate is the lack of communication on the part of NMC or the fact that failure rates/dates of failure do not jive with what they express. 

I've lost that lovin' feelin' when I look at my berkey. I used to love the sound of it dripping and the flavor of it's water. I felt like one more prep was in place and loved the security and warm feeling it gave me. That feeling of security will be never more and it doesn't seem like they are the least bit concerned.


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## Common Tator

Me too HintonLady. Me too.


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## mypatriotsupply

Owldancer:

Just wanted to confirm what I already believed was true - there is no use by date, and they can easily store 20+ years.

Hope this helps! 

Matt


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## kasilofhome

Thank you MPS for checking out the use by date. My filters I got from you tested great. I am glad to have tested them just for peace of mind. I never thought to test them before this thread. Kinda dumb on MY part.


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## mypatriotsupply

No problem, kasilofhome. How have you been, by the way? I haven't heard from you for a while - you know I worry about you up there!


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## Owldancer

Thanks Matt for checking for me.


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## Common Tator

Yesterday I spoke with a nice lady from New Millenium Concepts. They are going to replace our defective filters, but only because Matt from MyPatriotsupply called them first, on my behalf. I also spoke with a manager who wouldn't give me his name until the third time I asked for it. Then I just got a first name, David.

Anyway, I told him that they needed to notify their customers of the defects, because people aren't aware of them, and they're drinking unfiltered water. He said that if they're drinking unfiltered water, it is their own fault, because the instructions that are supposed to come with the filter say to do the red food color test every six months. Got that? If your filter breaks, and you drink unfiltered water and get sick, it's your fault.

And he said the defect is their suppliers fault. He said they don't manufacture their own filters They have them made.

So NMC sells defective filters, and it is the customer's fault and it is the suppliers fault. NMC is totally blameless.

I also told him that they need to do a recall of all filters from the defective batches. He said that isn't going to happen.


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## texican

We drink water pretty much straight from the lake (with only filters to keep the macrofauna out). Ever been swimming and swallowed water, or got water in your mouth? You got a heaping dose of whatever microflora/fauna was in the water. I've been drinking it for almost 20 years with no problems, and the GF since she arrived.

Funny thing, two weeks ago some friends from MT stopped by for the weekend on their vacation... I'd went out and bought bottled water... didn't want them to worry about getting any of my water cooties... Amazingly he said he definitely wanted to drink some of my water, to see if it would make him ill.... he said he drinks raw water from whatever source he finds it... from beaver streams on down.

Reckon I'm of the opinion if you cultivate a varied wild ecosystem in your gut now, your not at the mercy, so much, of 'bad water' when it could really ruin your week.

having said that... I do have an MSR portable water filter in the truck, just in case....


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## logbuilder

Common Tator said:


> Yesterday I spoke with a nice lady from New Millenium Concepts. They are going to replace our defective filters, but only because Matt from MyPatriotsupply called them first, on my behalf. I also spoke with a manager who wouldn't give me his name until the third time I asked for it. Then I just got a first name, David.
> 
> Anyway, I told him that they needed to notify their customers of the defects, because people aren't aware of them, and they're drinking unfiltered water. He said that if they're drinking unfiltered water, it is their own fault, because the instructions that are supposed to come with the filter say to do the red food color test every six months. Got that? If your filter breaks, and you drink unfiltered water and get sick, it's your fault.
> 
> And he said the defect is their suppliers fault. He said they don't manufacture their own filters They have them made.
> 
> So NMC sells defective filters, and it is the customer's fault and it is the suppliers fault. NMC is totally blameless.
> 
> I also told him that they need to do a recall of all filters from the defective batches. He said that isn't going to happen.


You are one tough cookie to please. Counting my blessings I wasn't on the other end of the phone with you.


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## Common Tator

Texican, You drink water pretty much straight from the lake by choice. And for now, you haven't gotten sick from it.

Our choice was to get a Berkey, because it was supposed to be the best out there. And we thought we were drinking purified water. In post #10 of this thread, I explained what happened to me, and I don't want to have to explain it all again, but I nearly died, and I believe it was from drinking the creek water.

And then yesterday, I spoke with a manager from NMC who blames their customers for drinking water from their filters for not doing the red food color test every 6 months. I had my filters for less than 6 months when it failed the red food color test. Well, according to him, it's MY fault. And, he says that it is easy to see when the filters fail, because they will be laying on their sides, floating in the water. Lots of the filter failures are from the ceramic element separating from their base. I don't believe they would float though. 

More often, the failure can't be seen without the test. The filter looks fine, but the glue is completely or partially separated from the base. In one of the pictures I posted you can see dirt that got inside the plastic base during the time it was in use. Those filters looked just fine, so contrary to what David said, it's NOT easy to see when the filter fails.

The filters fail without notice. If you follow their instructions, and test your filters at 6 month intervals, then if the filters fail two weeks after doing the test, you will be drinking unfiltered water for 5 1/2 months before you perform the test again at 6 months. And that is if you do everything right, according to their instructions.

I understand your point, and I understand the choice you made. Those of us with defective filters made the choice to purify our water. The company never notified us of the defective filters. In fact, David also said that they didn't need to notify their dealers of the defects, because their customers were notifying them when their filters failed. 

And he considers the public is fully notified by the PDF document that is buried 3 layers deep on their website.


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## Common Tator

logbuilder said:


> You are one tough cookie to please. Counting my blessings I wasn't on the other end of the phone with you.


Actually, I was lucky to get a word in edgewise. I would start to talk, and he would cut me off, talk over me and was quite condescending and aggressive. 

So I got to say a little about the fact that people weren't notified of the defective filters before he cut me off and went on and on about the PDF document that is buried deep within their website, and that was all the notice necessary. I told him that I believe I had gotten ill from drinking unfiltered water before he cut me off and explained how instructions are included with each and every Berkey that instruct the customer to do the red food color test, and if a customer gets sick, it's their own fault. I told him that their quality control is appalling they have no clue what goes into each and every box, that I hadn't received one of the plugs I was supposed to receive, I didn't get the lid lifter knob, and I didn't get the instructions, before he cut me off and said "that's debatable", and went off on another tangent. I said that I wanted them to do a recall of all of the filters from the defective batches, and he ended the conversation by telling me that wasn't going to happen.

I don't get into screaming matches. This wasn't a screaming match, but it was a competition of sorts, and he was going to be the winner of the conversation by any means possible. So he ended the conversation before I had the opportunity to tell him that I had filed a complaint with the FTC. So he won the conversation, but I'll keep on this. Doing whatever I can to alert people to the defective filters, and talking to whatever agencies or anyone else that may have the authority or the means to compel them to do right by their customers. These filters really need to be recalled, but if for any reason that can't happen, at least get the word out. 

I wish that he could have put his ego aside and listened rather than indulging his need to run roughshod over me.


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## lonelyfarmgirl

So the defective filter was your fault, huh? I'll tell you what, if I was you, this would be the point in which I go from fair compensation to take that man's job. I can't believe he would say something so dumb! They make a product that is supposed to keep people from dying in some cases, and the failure was your fault?!?

So it you had brain surgery and at three weeks after surgery your staples popped out and you nearly bleed to death is that your fault, rather than the surgeon who did a poor job, because you are supposed to have a doctors appointment to check them every 6 months?

I can't STAND stupid or self centered people. Reading that statement claiming it's your fault makes me flaming mad. Have you received responses back from the various places you have contacted about this? I know you listed them before, but I forget what they are. Almost sounds like a lawsuit is in order at this point.


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## Common Tator

Lonelyfarmgirl, the FTC will do an investigation. The FDA, EPA and CPSC say they haven't got the authority to do anything. The CDC hasn't gotten back to me. They probably don't have the authority either. I have other thoughts and pokers in the fire.

Edddddited to add: The FTC recommended that we each call out state Attorney General and file a complaint with them too. And since the FTC seems to be the only federal agency at the moment that can act, perhaps the investigation would go faster if more Berkey owners who have gotten defective filters were to file complaints.

The FTC's Consumer Protection division website is here: http://www.ftc.gov/bcp/

Their phone number is here: 1-877-FTC-HELP (1-877-382-4357)


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## where I want to

Why I worry that this is an ongoing problem (beside the company being so defensive,) - I bought my small Berkey in early 2008, before the alleged manufacturing issues. I also bought back up filters.
In 2011, I decided to start using it. 
When Common Tator started this posts, I decide to test. There was a faint red in the tested water- but the filter looked fine. It was not seperated or loose. But holding the top tank up a bit, I could see that one filter only was dripping a bit of red. 
I replaced that one filter and retested. The one that looked OK was now dripping a pretty substantial amount of red.
So I replaced it too. And retested again.
Oops- more red. I replaced with the last pair of filters I bought at the end of 2011. Went out and cleared up my whole house system and treated my house pipes. I'm not checking anymore- just assuming they are faulty or will be.
None of the filters had the markings shown on the website- there were no dates as they showed. Neither the ones that came with the Berkey in 2008, nor the replacement filter bought in 2008 nor the ones bought in late 2011.
Unlike Patriot Supply, the person from whom I bought the system would not talk to me either. Just kept refering me to the company and saying I had a right to be concerned.
So the first filters failed then the replacements failed. None of the filters involved were purchased during the alleged periods of manfuacture defects. How on earth would I believe that there was a small window of problem that is now resolved? 
What I do think is that the filters are so fragile that the attachment breaks down too easily. Not dropping the box but just gentle cleaning or the filters wiggling in normal use.


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## Common Tator

Where I want to, your post is very worrying, because the filters that you bought at the end of 2011 are the newly redesigned filters that they are claiming do not fail. And I've read posts from others who also had the new filters fail too. And your previous filters should never have failed either.

I bought some Aqua Cera filters that will fit in my Berkey housing. They cost half of what the Berkey filters do. I got them here http://www.stpaulmercantile.com/index.php?action=store&item=SS47

And I googled these filters and couldn't find any complaints of breakage or defects.


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## AngieM2

I hope you test your new other brand filters, too.


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## Common Tator

Absolutely Angie! I'm not sure if the red food color test will work with those. I may have to send some of the water off to be tested.


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## texican

All of these problems are reinforcing my previously position that wasn't properly presented.

If you place your faith in others, and their products, to take care of one life's most vital necessities, your setting yourself up for failure, if their product fails. Twould be a shame, to stock a lifetimes supply of filters for a water filter, and after TEOTW realize they were all faulty. Someone mentioned there's worked, and then 'didn't' work, before the recommended six month test interval.

Boiling, to my knowledge, is the only foolproof method of treating questionable water. Filters can and eventually always DO fail. It's just the sweet spot knowing when it has failed, and replacing one, that's difficult to ascertain. Back in my Backcountry days, our filters would start clogging long before they were not functional. Some were field serviceable, but I soon realized it was futile to try and clean them... by the time you realized they'd failed, you didn't have any clean water (in the bush) to clean them with.

All the water treating in the world is futile, if you ever have to cross a river or deep stream, or ever go swimming... all it takes is a drop of water to infest you...

My original point was, unless your going to strange far off lands, forget the water filter and try and slowly build immunity to your local flora and fauna... do so now, and you can easily and cheaply be cured. A dose of metronidazole is cheap (can get it without a prescrip on alldaychemist, or even from the vet). If you build up a well cultured gut that can tolerate your local water, your good to go for a long time. IF you live by the filter now, and live by the filter post-TEOTW, and it fails...... your stuck with boiling all your water, or else drinking contaminated water that might just kill you, under the right conditions, if not treated (with again, metronidazole or another microbial agent).

Personally, if I were a 'filterista', I'd go with a homebrew system, with easily obtainable filters (ceramic, carbon, sediment) from the hardware store, and have enough to last for decades. If I were using 'bought' systems, I'd have several different kinds... and regardless, have 'met' on hand, in case of a boo boo...

I daresay I have every kind of 'bug' imaginable in my lake water.... no human or chemical contaminants though. I, as a rule, don't let anyone drink my water, unless they're adults and have full disclosure...

If enough folks get peeved at Berkey (whoever makes em...) they'll lose their business. Imho, their goods were way overpriced to begin with. I could never see spending such money on a bucket, filter, and spigot.

What I'd really like would be an ultraviolet purifier that'd work off of 12vdc... could sterilize/purify water easily with the solar panels, using excess energy.


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## Common Tator

Thanks for clarifying what you meant Texican.


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## Smalltowngirl

Common Tator said:


> Absolutely Angie! I'm not sure if the red food color test will work with those. I may have to send some of the water off to be tested.


You know even with a 'clean' home test, considering your fragile intestinal condition; it might be wise to get it tested just to be sure that there's nothing still lurking in your drinking water.

Thank you for all of your research & your tenacity. :rock: I honestly thought the Berkey was just another version of the British Berkefeld. :huh:
I have decided to hold off on buying a Berkey and I am doing further research before spending my limited $$ on a questionable product. I too have intestinal issues along with a compromised immune system so I must be very careful.


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## theberkeyguy

Common Tator said:


> Berkey Guy, I just want to say that this is a public forum. Everyone is welcome, as long as they follow the rules.
> 
> I've seen your posts in other forums, and I have to give you kudos for keeping a cool head as people who bought Berkeys and discovered that their filters were defective lost their cool.:goodjob: And I believe you are a Berkey retailer, and not the manufacturer. So I don't envy you for having to try to put a positive spin on the situation.
> 
> I think you'll find the posters here to be intelligent, friendly and helpful. Those of us who have defective filters are understandably angry. I personally feel that NMC hasn't done enough to alert their customers to the defects, and because of that people are drinking contaminated water.
> 
> And, because people haven't been alerted to the defects, they are going past the timeframe when the filters will be replaced for free. So there they are, drinking contaminated water, thinking it's pure, because they bought a Berkey. Then one day, they look in the top chamber and see the ceramic element laying on it's side, and realize that they've been drinking contaminated water, They've been making baby formula with it. They've been providing it to elderly relatives, and their lives have all been put at risk. And, DANG! Is that why everybody is sick? And now, NMC wants to charge their credit card for replacements.
> 
> In my case, NMC changed the rules after I bought my unit. I'm sorry that they feel they were taken advantage of by their customers that learned of the defect early on. That has nothing to do with me, so why should I be punished? I relied on their claims when I bought my Berkey.
> 
> _"BerkeyÂ® Systems are the World&#8217;s Most Powerful and Cost Effective Personal Water purification Systems Providing Reliable and User-friendly Water Purification in Both Normal and Hostile Filtration Environments.
> 
> Moreover, BerkeyÂ®* systems are capable of purifying both treated water and untreated raw water from such sources as remote lakes, streams, stagnant ponds and water supplies in foreign countries*, where regulations may be substandard at best. So powerful, this system is able to remove red food coloring from water without removing the beneficial minerals your body needs. Perfect for everyday use and a must in hostile environments where electricity, water pressure or treated water may not be available. "_
> 
> I believed these claims, and bought the Berkey because my water is from a creek.
> 
> If a food company produced canned food, with only a 5% failure rate, there would be a recall of all of their food. If a car company produced a vehicle that had 5% of the cars steering wheels come off in the drivers hands when the car was only 6 months old, they would shorten the warranty period to exclude this defect, of course.:bash: No? That's what NMC did with the Berkeys, right? Of course, the car manufacturer would issue a recall, and if they didn't, the government would force it.
> 
> NMC needs to do a complete recall of the filters produced during the period when the defective filters were produced.
> 
> Edited to add: I recently purchased Excederin at Costco. Then it was discovered that there was a problem, something to do with other types of pills that may have gotten mixed in, or some such. I first saw this on the evening news. I read about it online in several news articles. I received a letter alerting me to this from my retailer, because their records showed that I had purchased that product, AND I received a robo call from Costco alerting me to the problem.
> 
> What has NMC done to alert their customers? I didn't see this on the evening news. I didn't read articles about it. I didn't get a letter. I didn't get a phone call. I learned about it months after NMC became aware of the defects, not from them, but from another poster right here in this forum. And the whole time that NMC kept this secret, I was drinking contaminated water. SHAME on them!


Thanks for your response, and while there are tons of comments, I will address some of the concerns that you have. We have been offering the Berkey Filters now over 6 1/2 years. We are personally using 2 black berkey elements that are over 2 1/2 years old, and they are having no problems. I bring that up, as a lot of people have thought this could be a problem for their filters that are outside the time of the problems. We got word of problems in late May 2011, early June 2011. Filters purchased from December 2010 to May 2011, may have problems. New Millenium immediately started replacing all filters, at no charge, and did so for many months. We spent hundreds of hours helping people get replacements, all while incurring the costs of helping people, with no compensation and no desire to see it anyway, as we just wanted to help people. New Millenium went over 6 months replacing filters, at no cost. While we could speculate on why NMC did not call you directly, our opinion was they were swamped, and spending all their time replacing sets and handling phone calls of all dealers customers. In relation to a Recall, please contact NMC for info on why they have not issued a recall. From what I saw, they decided to replace sets of black berkey elements at no charge, and this was known, and even posted by someone on survivalblog.com. 

In relation to new filter sets that we are offering even in the last few months, we have heard of some problems, and NMC redesigned the base, as soon as they heard of problems with the filters. Anyone can say that they should of done this or that, but they did replace hundreds if not thousands of sets, at no cost. In November or so, they went to a stricter policy, as they were replacing sets at no cost, and people could just call in and get a new set, even if there filters were not a part of the problem or fell in the dates of the problems. 

theberkeyguy


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## AngieM2

Thanks for the information theberkeyguy. And you are welcome to participate in this forum also.


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## mypatriotsupply

Unlike theberkeyguy, I don't depend on the sale of the Berkey product for my livelihood. Having the product or not having it would make very little difference to me financially. That said, I completely second everything he wrote in his post. I know theberkeyguy and I know, like me, he is quite the honest individual. I've never once had anyone in the public forum question my integrity, and I'm only saying what I honestly believe. It's like an old police captain friend of mine said once - there are three sides to every story...his side, her side, and the truth. Thanks Jeff for contributing!

Matt


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## Common Tator

theberkeyguy said:


> In relation to new filter sets that we are offering even in the last few months, we have heard of some problems, and NMC redesigned the base, as soon as they heard of problems with the filters.
> 
> theberkeyguy


First, I want to thank both Matt from MyPatriotSupply, and Jeff the Berkey Guy for their contributions here. Information has been very hard to come by. I know that I never blamed the dealers for the problems, I don't think anyone on this site has. And I never had a problem with the integrity of either of you. 

In regard to the quote above, I want to thank you for this. It is the first acknowledgment I've seen that there has been problems with the new and improved version. So now it is newer and more improved. Are they still using the same adhesive and the same plastic material that they were using? Because these two materials not sticking to each other is the cause of the failures from my batch, although I'm aware of sloppy glue jobs being responsible for some of the earlier failures. 

So if they are still using the same adhesive and plastic, I believe they will still have filter failures.


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## Harry Chickpea

texican said:


> All of these problems are reinforcing my previously position that wasn't properly presented.
> 
> If you place your faith in others, and their products, to take care of one life's most vital necessities, your setting yourself up for failure, if their product fails. Twould be a shame, to stock a lifetimes supply of filters for a water filter, and after TEOTW realize they were all faulty. Someone mentioned there's worked, and then 'didn't' work, before the recommended six month test interval.
> 
> Boiling, to my knowledge, is the only foolproof method of treating questionable water. Filters can and eventually always DO fail. It's just the sweet spot knowing when it has failed, and replacing one, that's difficult to ascertain. Back in my Backcountry days, our filters would start clogging long before they were not functional. Some were field serviceable, but I soon realized it was futile to try and clean them... by the time you realized they'd failed, you didn't have any clean water (in the bush) to clean them with.
> 
> All the water treating in the world is futile, if you ever have to cross a river or deep stream, or ever go swimming... all it takes is a drop of water to infest you...
> 
> My original point was, unless your going to strange far off lands, forget the water filter and try and slowly build immunity to your local flora and fauna... do so now, and you can easily and cheaply be cured. A dose of metronidazole is cheap (can get it without a prescrip on alldaychemist, or even from the vet). If you build up a well cultured gut that can tolerate your local water, your good to go for a long time. IF you live by the filter now, and live by the filter post-TEOTW, and it fails...... your stuck with boiling all your water, or else drinking contaminated water that might just kill you, under the right conditions, if not treated (with again, metronidazole or another microbial agent).
> 
> Personally, if I were a 'filterista', I'd go with a homebrew system, with easily obtainable filters (ceramic, carbon, sediment) from the hardware store, and have enough to last for decades. If I were using 'bought' systems, I'd have several different kinds... and regardless, have 'met' on hand, in case of a boo boo...
> 
> I daresay I have every kind of 'bug' imaginable in my lake water.... no human or chemical contaminants though. I, as a rule, don't let anyone drink my water, unless they're adults and have full disclosure...
> 
> If enough folks get peeved at Berkey (whoever makes em...) they'll lose their business. Imho, their goods were way overpriced to begin with. I could never see spending such money on a bucket, filter, and spigot.
> 
> What I'd really like would be an ultraviolet purifier that'd work off of 12vdc... could sterilize/purify water easily with the solar panels, using excess energy.


I understand where you are coming from. The concept of building up body defenses rather than trying to completely avoid anything but the purest water and foods is something that a lot of very smart people are beginning to understand and promote, especially in relation to children and the proper growth of the immune system.

Water purification started primarily because of typhus and typhoid fever. My grandmother died of that on a farm in a VERY rural area of Vermont. It absolutely DOES happen.

You do take chances drinking untreated water. Most of the buggies are just buggies. Giardia, Typhus, and Anthrax are the ones to be most concerned over, although e-coli, and a few others will make many folks sick for a while.

To me, it is all about risk/reward ratio. There are cattle a ways upstream on our creek. While I've worked around manure and so on in the past, probably inadvertently eaten and breathed in my share, I'd rather not take a chance, so we filter our drinking water.

You do make an (understandable) error in your assessment though - Swallowing a mouthful or two of water is absolutely NOT the same as ingesting bad water on an ongoing basis. It has to do with the way the body reacts under various situations, probabilities and a few other factors. Mexicans in the hinterlands of Mexico might not get Montezuma's Revenge but that doesn't mean they won't get parasites or other diseases.

Also, absolutely safe is almost unobtainable. Boiling won't remove prion issues or chemical issues. Distilling is safer than that, but some volatiles even get through there. REASONABLY safe is the goal.

As for black Berkey filters? Spin it however you want. Those WEREN'T my choice and I'm even MORE certain that I made a correct decision.


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## Henry

I just want to address the idea of building up an immunity to untreated water.
We have lived in the bush of northern BC for over 40 years. For the first 30 years we just drank from the mountain streams. Everything was great and we had good health. There were Beaver and other animals living in the streams,rivers,lakes that we drank from but we never got sick. One year I had a stomach problem and drove the 4 hours to see a doc. He asked me about my life and I told him I guided and lived partially off the land. His guess was Beaver fever. Apparently you not only need a beaver but the right conditions to contract this disease. There is no way to become "acclimated" and he also mentioned many parasites that are a risk for our lifestyle. The doc said I could come back for the lab test but I convinced him it was a hardship and could I get the poison to kill the Beaver fever bug and he relented and gave us a prescription because of our distance to town. Long story short the poison worked. We then spent $25000 on a deep well and had it tested. From then on until I retired I insisted all clients drink my supplied water. We have never had a problem since.
Acclimation is not a system I would count on.


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## Common Tator

There are so many things that can happen to a water supply before it reaches you. Our creek originates as a spring farther up the mountain. It runs down the mountain, runs under the 2 lane highway. From there, it runs past about 20 cabins on Forest Service lease land before getting to us. 

Those cabins are seldom used now, but if the SHTF, most of those cabin owners would probably be trying to get there. The more humans using the creek, the greater potential for pollution. There would probably be lots of people who don't have cabins showing up too. Where would they bathe? Where would they wash their clothes and dishes? Where would they wash their baby's cloth diapers? Even if we acclimated ourselves to drinking the creek water under current conditions we would be in a world of hurt if more people showed up and started polluting our water supply.

We've been discussing it, and Hubby and I are looking at getting additional, inexpensive water purification systems so that we can have alternatives, and possibly have some on hand for barter.


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## 1fast68

If there is not one already, someone should post a YouTube video on how to test the Berkley filters. You Tube will get a lot more hits by common folks that might have it than a forum like this.


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## Common Tator

1fast68 said:


> If there is not one already, someone should post a YouTube video on how to test the Berkley filters. You Tube will get a lot more hits by common folks that might have it than a forum like this.


That's not a bad idea.


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## hintonlady

1fast68 said:


> If there is not one already, someone should post a YouTube video on how to test the Berkley filters. You Tube will get a lot more hits by common folks that might have it than a forum like this.


That is a great idea! I don't have anything that would take decent video though. would be especially helpful if someone could do it with good and bad filters side by side so people know what to look for. Maybe even some shots of candles that broke off so people get the idea about how important it is to test.

Someone should totally do this.


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## Common Tator

I have a good camera that takes movies, and a little tripod. I can probably do this tomorrow.


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## hintonlady

Looked on youtube, it's been done. Go figure...


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## texican

Henry said:


> I just want to address the idea of building up an immunity to untreated water.
> We have lived in the bush of northern BC for over 40 years. For the first 30 years we just drank from the mountain streams. Everything was great and we had good health. There were Beaver and other animals living in the streams,rivers,lakes that we drank from but we never got sick. One year I had a stomach problem and drove the 4 hours to see a doc. He asked me about my life and I told him I guided and lived partially off the land. His guess was Beaver fever. Apparently you not only need a beaver but the right conditions to contract this disease. There is no way to become "acclimated" and he also mentioned many parasites that are a risk for our lifestyle. The doc said I could come back for the lab test but I convinced him it was a hardship and could I get the poison to kill the Beaver fever bug and he relented and gave us a prescription because of our distance to town. Long story short the poison worked. We then spent $25000 on a deep well and had it tested. From then on until I retired I insisted all clients drink my supplied water. We have never had a problem since.
> Acclimation is not a system I would count on.


Yet, you went 30 years, without issues... and, the 'bad water' could have been from another drainage than the one you drink regularly from. I've had giardia before... a couple rounds of 'flagyl' (metronidazole?) knocked it out. I'm thinking a couple shrinked wrapped boxes of doses of met would be a lot cheaper than 25K.

I love the area where ya'll live.... it was always hard for me to 'keep going' when I was going through that part of Canada to and from Alaska.

I'd seriously keep a lot of extra met on hand, just in case the deep well got polluted, for whatever reason. Trouble with wells, the means of getting the water out can sometimes stop working, and then it's back to surface water.

We do keep met on hand...


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## Common Tator

theberkeyguy said:


> In relation to new filter sets that we are offering even in the last few months, we have heard of some problems, and NMC redesigned the base, as soon as they heard of problems with the filters.
> theberkeyguy


Jeff, when did they redesign the base, the first time, and when was the most recent redesign?


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## Common Tator

I found my old thread and resurrected it here, so others can see about the red food color test, and they could see what a Berkey filter candle failure looks like.


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## edjewcollins

Isn't steam distillation the safest?


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## Harry Chickpea

Steam distillation, in general, is the safest. The water reaches boiling, which kills most pathogens, any dissolved solids are mostly eliminated, and depending upon the design, even some of the volatiles are removed.

It is expensive. A gallon of distilled water requires around 30 to 35 cents of electricity, or a similar BTU value in some other fuel, with solar being the sorta exception.

Another odd fact of distillation is that it isn't as complete as most people think. If you look at the good vodkas, they are triple distilled AND run through charcoal beds to remove contaminants.

The Doulton candles are a very good compromise for most situations.


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## Common Tator

Wow! Look at these pretty Doulton stainless steel housings with 2 Doulton candles on ebay for only $165! Stainless Steel Water Filter Doulton Sterasyl Silver Impregnated Ceramic Filters | eBay I really like the aesthitics of this design, and the description says the upper chamber holds 2 1/2 gallons, so it's a big one!


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## Common Tator

edjewcollins said:


> Isn't steam distillation the safest?


I wouldn't mind keeping a distillation unit going on top of the wood stove in the winter, when we have it going anyway, and need to heat the place up. 

I would mind using up all that propane to try to keep up with our water needs in the Spring, Summer and Fall. Especially in an EOTWAWKI situation, where more propane won't be available. Plus, my time is worth something. I don't want to be tethered to my stove for long periods of time babysitting the distiller. With a gravity flow ceramic filter, I pour water in the top and I'm done with it.


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## vicker

An easy way to "purify" drinking water is to put the water in a clear bottle and set it in the sun. Ultraviolet light will kill the pathogens. I've been told this by missionaries and peace corp workers. Ive never had it confirmed.


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## Harry Chickpea

vicker said:


> An easy way to "purify" drinking water is to put the water in a clear bottle and set it in the sun. Ultraviolet light will kill the pathogens. I've been told this by missionaries and peace corp workers. Ive never had it confirmed.


Totally incorrect.

Water can have organisms killed by focused and concentrated sunlight, but it has to be much more intense that just setting a bottle in the sun. If I set a bottle of untreated water out, it grows a nice crop of algae after a few days.


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## vicker

I wondered about that. Algae is good for you, ain't it?


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## vicker

Well, I found this. If it is good enough for the WHO, it's good enough for my shtf plans. 


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solar_water_disinfection


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## Harry Chickpea

It might be ok for you, but not for me. 

From your link:
"Regrowth of bacteria: Once removed from sunlight, remaining bacteria may again reproduce in the dark. A 2010 study showed that adding just 10 parts per million of hydrogen peroxide is effective in preventing the regrowth of wild Salmonella."

Earlier in the link:
"Suggested Treatment Schedule[5] Weather Conditions Minimum Treatment Duration
sunny (less than 50% cloud cover) 6 hours
cloudy (50-100% cloudy, little to no rain) 2 days
continuous rainfall unsatisfactory performance"

Just being a smart-azz, I wonder how they remove it from the sunlight (nighttime) and prevent regrowth for that second day?

In equatorial arid regions, this might be viable. Based on my own experience and algae growth, I'd suggest that those perfect days and conditions are harder to come by around here. In winter, from here north is likely outta luck.

If you do use something like this, at least rig up a couple of reflectors. Me, I wouldn't trust it. I'd sooner boil the water if I was forced to drink it. Much more consistent.


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## vicker

Boil away :cowboy:


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## Common Tator

I hope you don't mind Harry Chickpea, but I borrowed your quote from another thread, because it is relevant here.


Harry Chickpea said:


> What do I think? I think I hate *LIES* :flame:
> 
> "Product is manufactured to meet:
> 
> National Sanitation Foundation (NSF) Standard 42
> National Sanitation Foundation (NSF) Standard 53"
> 
> _*Oh REALLY???*_
> 
> Here is the NSF search by manufacturer page:
> NSF International : Product and Service Listings
> 
> Your link says the filter is manufactured by "Just Water"
> 
> Put that name in, and click on "Search by Manufacturer" - Go ahead. Just do it.
> 
> Then put in Doulton and click on "Search by Manufacturer"
> 
> These jerks can't even copy their outlandish claims correctly.
> 
> "and will not permit bacteria growth-through (mitosis)"
> 
> shouldn't that be...?
> 
> and will not permit bacteria growth- (through mitosis)
> 
> Cripe, I learned how to use the word properly in Junior High.
> 
> I can CLAIM that I make an Estes carboard model rocket to NASA standards. That doesn't mean I did, it doesn't mean that a NASA representative examined my model rocket, and it SURE doesn't mean it will go to the moon.
> 
> This whole market is infested with liars and charlatans :catfight:. If you want to save a few bucks on a device that you want to save your life in a bad situation, go ahead. Replace your seat belts with kite string while you are at it.
> 
> I feel like a father in a dime store with a bunch of kids wanting toy cars. "No Johnny, that one will break the first time you use it. Yes, Mary it IS pretty, but it is made out of pressed paper and you want to use it in the bathtub."
> 
> Look. The NSF.ORG website is a few keypresses away. When you get a claim, cross check there.
> 
> Yeah, I'm grumpy. Liars do that to me.


Harry was not tallking about Berkey filters, but rather, an entirely different filter that someone was asking about. 

This is relevant here, because I went to the NSF Certification page and searched on the trade name Berkey, and also on the manufacturer name New Millenium Concepts, and couldn't find where either were registered as being tested or certified by the NSF. Perhaps I missed something, or typed in the wrong information. The Berkey dealers who frequent this forum are certainly welcome to jump in here and post the correct information. If I am wrong here, I'll apologize right now. But I would like this cleared up. Does the black Berkey have NSF certification, or doesn't it?

I did find this site, where the question about certification was asked, and Jeff, the Berkey guy offered to email information directly to people who asked, about testing at three different labs, but no mention of NSF Certification, and he wasn't willing to share the information on the web. Berkey Independent Lab Testing Data? NSF?

Then there is this: Big Berkey Water Filters : Blog - Nsf Certification And they make it sound like the Berkey has the certification, and go on at length about the certification, and what to look for. 

They say: _*"The NSF (National Sanitation Foundation), headquartered in Ann Arbor, Michigan, is an independent testing laboratory that performs comprehensive testing and certification of filtration products. In order for a product to earn &#8220;certification&#8221; for reduction of a contaminant, it must be able to reduce a specific amount of that contaminant. Certification is voluntary, so it is important that the consumer ensures that the product they are considering purchasing has attained certification."*_ Yeah, I'm trying to find that certification right now.

So I'm seeing where claims are made that the Berkey exceeds NSF standards. I'm not seeing where they submitted their product to the NSF for certification.

Thank you for your post Harry! You really got me thinking!


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## stanb999

Common Tator said:


> I hope you don't mind Harry Chickpea, but I borrowed your quote from another thread, because it is relevant here. Harry was not tallking about Berkey filters, but rather, and entirely different filter that someone was asking about.
> 
> This is relevant here, because I went to the NSF Certification page and searched on the trade name Berkey, and also on the manufacturer name New Millenium Concepts, and couldn't find where either were registered as being tested or certified by the NSF. Perhaps I missed something, or typed in the wrong information. The Berkey dealers who frequent this forum are certainly welcome to jump in here and post the correct information. If I am wrong here, I'll apologize right now. But I would like this cleared up. Does the black Berkey have NSF certification, or doesn't it?
> 
> I did find this site, where the question about certification was asked, and Jeff, the Berkey guy offered to email information directly to people who asked, about testing at three different labs, but no mention of NSF Certification, and he wasn't willing to share the information on the web. Berkey Independent Lab Testing Data? NSF?
> 
> Then there is this: Big Berkey Water Filters : Blog - Nsf Certification And they make it sound like the Berkey has the certification, and go on at length about the certification, and what to look for.
> 
> They say: _*"The NSF (National Sanitation Foundation), headquartered in Ann Arbor, Michigan, is an independent testing laboratory that performs comprehensive testing and certification of filtration products. In order for a product to earn &#8220;certification&#8221; for reduction of a contaminant, it must be able to reduce a specific amount of that contaminant. Certification is voluntary, so it is important that the consumer ensures that the product they are considering purchasing has attained certification."*_ Yeah, I'm trying to find that certification right now.
> 
> So I'm seeing where claims are made that the Berkey exceeds NSF standards. I'm not seeing where they submitted their product to the NSF for certification.
> 
> Thank you for your post Harry! You really got me thinking!


Black Berkey filters IMHO are made to treat treated water and make the purchaser feel good. They filter chlorine and with the "special" filter will filter fluoride.. 

Does the stream in the woods contain those things? How about the stagnant pool of ditch water? 

Real filters are readily available. Buy one not the hype.


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## Common Tator

Thanks Stan. What kind of filter did you get?


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## stanb999

Common Tator said:


> Thanks Stan. What kind of filter did you get?



I haven't gotten to it yet. But I will get a Doulton filter and make a two bucket system. I have been busy with other things on the homestead. I guess I should just get to it.


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## Common Tator

Thanks Stan, that sounds good!


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## zwarte

I bought a great big Katadyn filter. Katadyn TRK Drip Ceradyn Water Filter

http://www.amazon.com/Katadyn-Drip-Ceradyn-Water-Filter/dp/B0007U010W

Is this any different from the Berkeys?


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## Peasant

I know this is an old thread, but I think it's worth bumping.

I recently tested all 8 of my black Berkey elements using the red food coloring test. Half of them failed. I bought all of these elements in November 2006 (still have the receipts). They've been stored in their original boxes in bubble wrap, but have been moved numerous times and have been subject to a wide range of temperatures. Some had been used occasionally, maybe a few months total.

Two of the elements had obvious problems with the bases, which were loose. They easily pulled off when I applied some pressure. They had sediment in them (our well water is pretty dirty).

50% is unacceptable given the price of these elements and the health risks involved. I no longer trust my Big Berkey. If do ever use it again, I'll add red dye to every batch of water since the elements can apparently fail at any time.

It's certainly possible that the age and storage conditions of my elements were the cause of the failures. Even so, it would suggest they have a shelf life and/or are very fragile.


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## Mutti

Hadn't tested my Berkey Lite filters lately so did yesterday and they passed. Bought the unit several years ago at Patriot Supply. I want to get some replacement filters but unsure where to buy. Pleasant Hill Grain sells them for 2/$107 with free shipping....deal? Will discuss the dates if I order.


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## kra12top

Berkey's are great! Very good product. Highly recommend.
Got mine from : berkeywaterfilterplus . com


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## kra12top

The berkey light makes it easier to do the red color dye test as the body is clear versus the stainless steel models.
The berkey light: https://www.berkeywaterfilterplus.com/product/berkey-light/
Stainless steel models: https://www.berkeywaterfilterplus.com/product/big-berkey/


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## joellejo

Common Tator said:


> I finally got the time and a good place to test all of my Berkey filters. I got to take over a fire station kitchen for a few hours. Lots of counter space and big, deep sinks!.......


It is 2020, and something is happening to the filters again I went through 4 filters in 6 months they keep failing the red dye test. They are sending me another 2... Thank goodness for the shut down other wise we could have taken the berkey on trips with not so great water. as it is we have been drinking nothing but tap water that causes me migranes and stomach issues. I saved forever to make the purchase to have safe water to drink, now I'm out of the money and I am drinking worse water than before, because before I knew not to drink tap water and drank bottled water, the Berkey gave me a false sense of security when all I was drinking was tap water and I drank it and kept getting sick, my dog too. I don't know what to do, no funds to buy another brand of filters.


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## Alice In TX/MO

With issues that severe, I'd change to a water distillation unit for the drinking and cooking water.





__





Water Distillers | Home & Commercial Water Distiller Units - H2o Labs


Best-in-Class water distillers ranging from countertop water distiller models for the home to high production automatic water distillers for commercial use.



www.h2olabs.com


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## backwoodsman7

joellejo said:


> t is 2020, and something is happening to the filters again I went through 4 filters in 6 months they keep failing the red dye test.


Wow, this thread is just a long string of one serious quality control issue after another, yet people keep buying them. I always thought the "red food coloring test" was just a Berkey marketing gimmick (I never understood why anyone cared about removing red food coloring), but it seems it's mostly used to identify defective Berkey elements.

The best solution is to stop buying junk, and buy decent quality elements like Berkefeld/Doulton (both made by Fairey Ceramics), AquaRain, or Katadyn instead.


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## Wolf mom

backwoodsman7 said:


> Wow, this thread is just a long string of one serious quality control issue after another, yet people keep buying them. I always thought the "red food coloring test" was just a Berkey marketing gimmick (I never understood why anyone cared about removing red food coloring), but it seems it's mostly used to identify defective Berkey elements.
> 
> *The best solution is to stop buying junk, and buy decent quality elements like Berkefeld/Doulton (both made by Fairey Ceramics), AquaRain, or Katadyn instead. *


You must not have read the first couple pages of this post.....The filters that were being tested were from Berkey. 
Note: The Berkey name comes from Berke(field) - who you just said sell quality elements.


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## backwoodsman7

Wolf mom said:


> Note: The Berkey name comes from Berke(field) - who you just said sell quality elements.


When Berkey first started, they were an importer of Berkefeld filters. Soon they started making their own products, which they called Berkey, presumably in order to capitalize on the confusion created by using a name that was already a nickname for Berkefeld. Clearly a good business choice, as the confusion is still in play almost 20 years later.

So, yes, the name comes from Berkefeld; and yes, Berkefeld makes good quality products. Berkey, not so much, apparently.


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