# Election all ready hurt my family!



## NickyBlade (May 27, 2008)

My son in law found out this morning that his employer will no longer offer health insurance come January because they can not afford it under Obamacare. So, SIL, DD, and my little grandson will be uninsured. Thanks Obama voters! :thumb:


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## TNnative (May 23, 2004)

I think a lot of people will be in this boat before long. Then to top it off, they will have to pay the Obamacare tax for not having insurance.


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## 7thswan (Nov 18, 2008)

I'm sorry. There is more to come soon. There is going to be a huge Tax increase comeing. More coal plants will be closed,so electricity will go up ,alot. Fuel will go up,so will food. I could go on and on, I 'm so sorry.


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## wally (Oct 9, 2007)

with all respect to your family, you are only the first of thousands that will be in the same boat..Good luck


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## wy_white_wolf (Oct 14, 2004)

Wife's employer has decided to drop most everyones hours to under 30 hours a week. No penalty from not supplying insurance for them as they only have part time employees.

Only a few managers will work full time.

WWW


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## NickyBlade (May 27, 2008)

wy white wolf, that's awful. I'm so sorry. I'm sure there are those that will blame the business rather than the government, but businesses exist to make money and they have to stay profitable or they will close and then they would employ no one. 

My parents lost their health care a few years back. They are 63, make too much for medicaid, not old enough for medicare, don't make enough to pay $700 a month for insurance that has a $3000 annual deductible. People keep telling them they can get Obamacare! I don't get it??? What are they talking about? Sure, insurance has to accept them even with preexisting conditions, but the premiums still cost $700 a month!


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## Belfrybat (Feb 21, 2003)

NickyBlade said:


> wy white wolf, that's awful. I'm so sorry. I'm sure there are those that will blame the business rather than the government, but businesses exist to make money and they have to stay profitable or they will close and then they would employ no one.
> 
> My parents lost their health care a few years back. They are 63, make too much for medicaid, not old enough for medicare, don't make enough to pay $700 a month for insurance that has a $3000 annual deductible. People keep telling them they can get Obamacare! I don't get it??? What are they talking about? Sure, insurance has to accept them even with preexisting conditions, but the premiums still cost $700 a month!


Depending on their income they may qualify for a subsidy. Heath insurance premiums under the ACA can't cost more than 8% of a person's net income. For a person making $35,000. a year that ends up being around $240.00 a month.


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## emdeengee (Apr 20, 2010)

Since your employer is no longer paying for your medical insurance then the portion of the payout that covers you should now be attached to your pay as this is part of your employment package. Otherwise your employer is just changing the terms of your employment to take advantage and shortchanging you and all the other employees. Your employer could (and should) redistribute the money that he has been paying out for health insurance all along only now he can put it directly into your hands. This extra money should help you pay for your own health insurance - which is just what so many want isn't it?


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## 7thswan (Nov 18, 2008)

&#8220;A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, followed always by a dictatorship. The average age of the world&#8217;s greatest civilizations has been 200 years.&#8221;
~ Alexander Fraser Tytler, Scottish-born British lawyer and writer, 1747 - 1813.


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## NickyBlade (May 27, 2008)

Belfrybat said:


> Depending on their income they may qualify for a subsidy. Heath insurance premiums under the ACA can't cost more than 8% of a person's net income. For a person making $35,000. a year that ends up being around $240.00 a month.


Is there a cap on annual deductibles? Because if the deductible is thousands of dollars, then you're really just spending $240 a month more than you were... which for a lot of people would mean to eat or not to eat.

emdeengee, I'm sure business owners are just trying to sock it to their employees left and right. It couldn't possibly be that they want their business to remain profitable and keep people employed.  Honestly, it's not just the cost of healthcare that will make employers drop it. When a business requires vehicles and the price of gas skyrockets, taxes go up, utilities go up, AND the new health care laws... they have to cut something or close! Then the people won't have a job. When everyone is on unemployment and welfare, who will pay taxes? The 1%?


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## emdeengee (Apr 20, 2010)

If you are getting healthcare through your work then that cost to the employer is included in what they are offering you as pay. That is what benefits are. You get healthcare in lieu of extra wages. Employers do not have to offer healthcare at all, they choose to do so to entice good employees. 

If the employer no longer chooses to enroll in a medical insurance plan then the employer is saving money on payroll through this reduction in benefits. The employer gains and the employees lose. A decent employer would distribute that "benefit," now in the form of cash, to their employees thus assisting in the change over and not costing the employer more than it did before. 

As for the cost of gas skyrocketing. What? It never skyrocketed before when the employer was paying healthcare for their employees? That did not cause them to cut off the healthcare benefit at that time. Why now? Apples and oranges. 

Employees need to realize that when a benefit is no longer provided in the understanding of employment (or contract) this is a salary decrease unless recompense is made. An employer has the right to make changes within the boundaries of an understanding of employment or contract but employees should not be fooled and and accept a reduction when one is not necessary.


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## NickyBlade (May 27, 2008)

So... employers aren't required to offer health insurance under obamacare?


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## NickyBlade (May 27, 2008)

And yes, the price of gas did cause my parents to lose their insurance... it was a few years back, but that was the cause.


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## emdeengee (Apr 20, 2010)

What your parents actually got was a wage/salary reduction. The result would have been the same if the employer had cut their hourly pay or salary. The employer chose to cut healthcare benefits. The employer decided to offset the rise in expenses by cutting payroll expenses which included healthcare. Increases in expenses ARE the cost of doing business and are mitigated by price increases to customers. You are not paying the same for a gallon of milk as you were a few years back either.


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## Hollowdweller (Jul 13, 2011)

NickyBlade said:


> Is there a cap on annual deductibles? Because if the deductible is thousands of dollars, then you're really just spending $240 a month more than you were... which for a lot of people would mean to eat or not to eat.
> 
> emdeengee, I'm sure business owners are just trying to sock it to their employees left and right. It couldn't possibly be that they want their business to remain profitable and keep people employed.  Honestly, it's not just the cost of healthcare that will make employers drop it. When a business requires vehicles and the price of gas skyrockets, taxes go up, utilities go up, AND the new health care laws... they have to cut something or close! Then the people won't have a job. When everyone is on unemployment and welfare, who will pay taxes? The 1%?


Questions and Answers - Federal Health Care Reform Implementation in New York State


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## NickyBlade (May 27, 2008)

NickyBlade said:


> So... employers aren't required to offer health insurance under obamacare?


Will someone answer?

Some businesses can not pass on a price increase and stay in business because customers will not pay it... The first thing consumers quit spending on in a poor economy is dry cleaning, hair salons, car detailing, anything not necessary. In my dad's case he's worked the same job for nearly 40 years, the owners are awesome people. They felt HORRIBLE and had a meeting with the entire staff. The owners are old the would be happy to close shop and retire or stay open. They let the employees decide. But, they could not stay open and lose money.


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

> So, SIL, DD, and my little grandson will be uninsured


They'll be insured because they will be FORCED to buy it, or pay a penalty


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

> Since your employer is no longer paying for your medical insurance then the portion of the payout that covers you should now be attached to your pay as this is part of your employment package


LOL
That won't happen, since the money will go towards paying the FINES for Obamacare, and the *higher taxes* that are coming


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

> When everyone is on unemployment and welfare, who will pay taxes? The 1%?


BO's going to make those evil "rich" people pay their "fair share" so everyone can live happily everafter


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## NickyBlade (May 27, 2008)

Yes, forced to buy it on NY's health insurance exchange... which I was just reading about thanks to Hollowdweller's link. I sure hope they make it less confusing once it's up and running.


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## houndlover (Feb 20, 2009)

Conservative are all about personal responsibility. Go buy your own insurance, and stop figuring on your employer to provide a subsidy for you. Isn't that the republican mantra - take care of yourself and stop asking for a handout? Insurance from an employer isn't a right. We're all free to go find new jobs, because it's just that easy, right? Without Obama care, it's likely that same insurance the company offers will rise significantly more than under Obamacare, because of the simple concept of economy of scale. That company isn't offering insurance not because the premiums have risen, but because they want the money spent on insurance to go in their pocket. Your son isn't a victim of Obamacare, he's a victim of a greedy capitalist. Atlas shrugged again.


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## 7thswan (Nov 18, 2008)

houndlover said:


> Conservative are all about personal responsibility. Go buy your own insurance, and stop figuring on your employer to provide a subsidy for you. Isn't that the republican mantra - take care of yourself and stop asking for a handout? Insurance from an employer isn't a right. We're all free to go find new jobs, because it's just that easy, right? Without Obama care, it's likely that same insurance the company offers will rise significantly more than under Obamacare, because of the simple concept of economy of scale. That company isn't offering insurance not because the premiums have risen, but because they want the money spent on insurance to go in their pocket. Your son isn't a victim of Obamacare, he's a victim of a greedy capitalist. Atlas shrugged again.


Nonsense. HC and Pensions are in the agreement when many take on a particular job. That's why people that work on the line at GM really make 70 dollars and hour,but take home 30. per hour. It's the benifits.

Ps. the month Commiecare was passed,our Insuranse went up due to the new requirements by the GOVERMENT.


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## NickyBlade (May 27, 2008)

So... Is is the goal of the dems to twist "personal responsibility" and really stick it to the working class conservatives?


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## springvalley (Jun 23, 2009)

Bearfootfarm said:


> They'll be insured because they will be FORCED to buy it, or pay a penalty


My question is, if someone poor enough can`t afford to buy their insurance, how on earth can they pay a penalty?? This is what i don`t understand about Obamacare, how can they force someone to do something they can`t afford to do. > Thanks Marc


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## Belfrybat (Feb 21, 2003)

NickyBlade said:


> So... employers aren't required to offer health insurance under obamacare?


Not all are. Only those with 49 or more employees. However there are tax breaks / incentives for small businesses to be able to offer affordable healthcare to employees. And some have already taken advantage of it. 



springvalley said:


> My question is, if someone poor enough can`t afford to buy their insurance, how on earth can they pay a penalty?? This is what i don`t understand about Obamacare, how can they force someone to do something they can`t afford to do. > Thanks Marc


They don't. If they can't find insurance for less than 8% they either receive a subsidy to bring it down to that level OR they are exempt from the mandate.


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## Belfrybat (Feb 21, 2003)

NickyBlade said:


> My parents lost their health care a few years back. They are 63, make too much for medicaid, not old enough for medicare, don't make enough to pay $700 a month for insurance that has a $3000 annual deductible. People keep telling them they can get Obamacare! I don't get it??? What are they talking about? Sure, insurance has to accept them even with preexisting conditions, but the premiums still cost $700 a month!


If your parents are Christian, suggest they look into a healthcare ministry (sort of like a co-op). I am a member of Christian Healthcare Ministries and pay $150.00 a month for $500.00 member responsiblity (ie. deductible) and $125,000. coverage on any one illness/accident. They also have an additional plan to cover up to 1 million per illness/accident. They have three plans at $45.00, $85.00 and $150.00 per month. I took the higher one as that also covers pre-existing plus outpatient care. 
Christian Healthcare Ministries: The affordable, biblical solution to healthcare costs


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## Old Vet (Oct 15, 2006)

That is the way Obama care should work. That way everybody will have only government healthcare. That is the only way it can do even half what they want.


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## watcher (Sep 4, 2006)

NickyBlade said:


> So... employers aren't required to offer health insurance under obamacare?


Not if the employee is part time, under 30 hrs/wk, or the business has fewer than 50 employees. I know a few people who are now going to cut hrs/employee or will be "letting go", i.e. firing, enough employees to get under the 50 number.


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## watcher (Sep 4, 2006)

houndlover said:


> Conservative are all about personal responsibility. Go buy your own insurance, and stop figuring on your employer to provide a subsidy for you. Isn't that the republican mantra - take care of yourself and stop asking for a handout? Insurance from an employer isn't a right. We're all free to go find new jobs, because it's just that easy, right? Without Obama care, it's likely that same insurance the company offers will rise significantly more than under Obamacare, because of the simple concept of economy of scale. That company isn't offering insurance not because the premiums have risen, but because they want the money spent on insurance to go in their pocket. Your son isn't a victim of Obamacare, he's a victim of a greedy capitalist. Atlas shrugged again.


Insurance prices will skyrocket because the fascist government is forcing them to provide "insurance" to people who are already sick. Think about it this way. The government tells you you can either buy auto insurance or pay a $100 a year tax AND if you don't have insurance when you wreck your car the government will force a company to sell you 'insurance' and fix your car. Do you think the cost of a policy would go up or down?


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## nebula5 (Feb 4, 2003)

NickyBlade said:


> Yes, forced to buy it on NY's health insurance exchange... which I was just reading about thanks to Hollowdweller's link. I sure hope they make it less confusing once it's up and running.


Nickyblade, if they meet the income limits, Family Health Plus run by the NYS Dept of Health may be a lot cheaper for them.
Family Health Plus


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## katydidagain (Jun 11, 2004)

watcher said:


> Insurance prices will skyrocket because the fascist government is forcing them to provide "insurance" to people who are already sick. Think about it this way. The government tells you you can either buy auto insurance or pay a $100 a year tax AND if you don't have insurance when you wreck your car the government will force a company to sell you 'insurance' and fix your car. Do you think the cost of a policy would go up or down?


Actually anyone with insurance or who uses the medical system has been paying for people who are sick for a long time. If they cannot pay their bills, who do you think does? It's not like providers just eat their losses; like store owners pass on the cost of shoplifting, the customer pays higher prices.

It's now out in the open.

I'm not convinced the new plan will work but I do suspect it means that *some* people who couldn't afford preventive checkups because they lacked insurance may now be inclined to visit a doctor before things go drastically wrong. And people who have chronic conditions generally didn't ask for their lot in life. (Don't get on me about vices--some of the healthiest people I know have really horrible habits.)


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## Daddyof4 (Jan 5, 2004)

I heard a call in business owner today on one of the pundit shows. He said now that Obama has been re-elected he is not going to pay for Obamacare. He had over the minimum number of full time employees as of last night such that he would have had to pay for it. So he had to let five employees go to get to that number. But in order to decide who to fire he went out to the parking lot and noted who had an Obama sticker on their car and went in and fired only those who voted for Obama. Brilliant plan to me!


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## nchobbyfarm (Apr 10, 2011)

houndlover said:


> Conservative are all about personal responsibility. Go buy your own insurance, and stop figuring on your employer to provide a subsidy for you. Isn't that the republican mantra - take care of yourself and stop asking for a handout? Insurance from an employer isn't a right. We're all free to go find new jobs, because it's just that easy, right? Without Obama care, it's likely that same insurance the company offers will rise significantly more than under Obamacare, because of the simple concept of economy of scale. That company isn't offering insurance not because the premiums have risen, but because they want the money spent on insurance to go in their pocket. Your son isn't a victim of Obamacare, he's a victim of a greedy capitalist. Atlas shrugged again.


This coming from someone that I am guessing has never run a business in their life. Maybe some of those cutting edge economy professors that can't make a living in the real word will explain it as greedy. Most I know call it survival. I am sorry to all those losing benefits but elections have consequences and the Liberals are learning that their actions have irreparably hurt real people so they must blame the evil business owner.

See the employers have already taken the cuts to the evil profits since 2008. I actually had to give up and close 2 businesses and take a public job. But I have not complained about that as I did what was necessary to provide for my family. I have educated myself and made my services worth something to my employer. I can only hope that I can continue to make my services worth the expenses that they make to keep me or inevitably I too will lose my benefits or even my job.

I am wondering if you actually took the time to read Atlas Shrugged or are you just using it off of someone else's explanation. I do hope you actually did read it.


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## nchobbyfarm (Apr 10, 2011)

springvalley said:


> My question is, if someone poor enough can`t afford to buy their insurance, how on earth can they pay a penalty?? This is what i don`t understand about Obamacare, how can they force someone to do something they can`t afford to do. > Thanks Marc


They have the guns and will seize assets to cover the costs if they own anything. If not, they will place leans against the person and if thy do ever earn anything, then they will seize that. Big brother will get his if you live long enough.


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## Daddyof4 (Jan 5, 2004)

nchobbyfarm said:


> They have the guns and will seize assets to cover the costs if they own anything. If not, they will place leans against the person and if thy do ever earn anything, then they will seize that. Big brother will get his if you live long enough.



I'm still reeling from just how absolutely stupid someone has to be to have voted for Obama a second time.


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## JeffreyD (Dec 27, 2006)

nchobbyfarm said:


> They have the guns and will seize assets to cover the costs if they own anything. If not, they will place leans against the person and if thy do ever earn anything, then they will seize that. Big brother will get his if you live long enough.


Don't forget about the estate tax!


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## Evons hubby (Oct 3, 2005)

NickyBlade said:


> So... Is is the goal of the dems to twist "personal responsibility" and really stick it to the working class conservatives?


The goal of the dems is to insure their own re-elections by promising tidbits to the public.... and making sure the public appreciates those tidbits by keeping them broke! A prosperous society has little need for government handouts.... unemployed people who have lost their homes do... and will vote accordingly. Yesterday is a perfect example.


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## Danaus29 (Sep 12, 2005)

The Affordable Care Act does not require employers to provide health insurance for their employees.

The Employer Responsibility provision of the Affordable Care Act applies businesses with more than 50 full-time workers. To learn more read the Employer Bulletin on Automatic Enrollment, Employer Responsibility, and Waiting Periods.

Large Business:
Do I have to provide health insurance to my employees?

The law does not require employers to provide health insurance.

Starting in 2014, large businesses (those with 50 or more full-time workers) that do not provide adequate health insurance will be required to pay an assessment if their employees receive premium tax credits to buy their own insurance. These assessments will offset part of the cost of these tax credits. The assessment for a large employer that does not offer coverage will be $2,000 per full-time employee beyond the company's first 30 workers.

The Department of Health and Human Services estimates that fewer than 2% of large American employers will have to pay these assessments. 

To learn more read the Employer Bulletin on Automatic Enrollment, Employer Responsibility, and Waiting Periods

Employers & Self-Employed | HealthCare.gov

*NO business is required to offer health insurance!!!!!*

If they do not offer health insurance they will pay a very small penalty which is no where near the amount the insurance costs. If a business wants to save money all they have to do is stop offering health insurance.


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## fantasymaker (Aug 28, 2005)

What people dont seem to get is business dont offer healthcare out of the goodness of their nonexsistant corperate heart.
They do it to make money.
You see if a company can buy health care at wholesale because they are buying for LOTS of people they get it pretty cheep ,lets say just for the sake of the argument $500 per employe. If the employees percive it as having a retail value of $800 its netting the company $300 a month in employe's percived compensation. Plus it has a retaining effect since people dont wanna hassle with learning a new plan or risk not having healthcare.So its total valve to the company can be quite large.


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## katydidagain (Jun 11, 2004)

fantasymaker said:


> What people dont seem to get is business dont offer healthcare out of the goodness of their nonexsistant corperate heart.
> They do it to make money.
> You see if a company can buy health care at wholesale because they are buying for LOTS of people they get it pretty cheep ,lets say just for the sake of the argument $500 per employe. If the employees percive it as having a retail value of $800 its netting the company $300 a month in employe's percived compensation. Plus it has a retaining effect since people dont wanna hassle with learning a new plan or risk not having healthcare.So its total valve to the company can be quite large.


Kept the books for smaller businesses for many years; they did not make a profit on employee's health insuranc offered. Larger companies can self fund; in the past they probably did sometimes "earn" on the premiums employees paid in but any excess was targeted for unexpected future expenses and I'm pretty certain the "big payins" are long over. Government? Worked for the Feds many years ago; I don't know if they "pocketed a profit" from health insurance. Okay, they may have claimed they did but it's all smoke and mirrors with them so who knows? IME, what an employee pays is a portion of what insurance costs their employer. (Any profit would be taxable.) How much depends on the employer and the employee's worth to the organization.


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## poppy (Feb 21, 2008)

watcher said:


> Insurance prices will skyrocket because the fascist government is forcing them to provide "insurance" to people who are already sick. Think about it this way. The government tells you you can either buy auto insurance or pay a $100 a year tax AND if you don't have insurance when you wreck your car the government will force a company to sell you 'insurance' and fix your car. Do you think the cost of a policy would go up or down?


My youngest brother just got laid off from United Healthcare, one of the largest health insurers. He's 48 and has worked for them since college. They are downsizing and did away with his whole dept. and also laid some off in other depts. His boss told him it was due to Obamacare rules forcing insurance premiums so high people couldn't afford them. The preexisting condition was a large part of it. The irony is, the company was all for Obamacare in the beginning because they thought they would sell a lot more policies once it was required. Now they are pushing "enhanced" policies for things like dental and eye care in hopes of making up some of their lost revenue.


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

> Your son isn't a victim of Obamacare, he's a victim of *a greedy capitalist*.


If your theory was correct, they never would have offered insurance to begin with.
You've just bought into the fantasies


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## Wendy (May 10, 2002)

> I heard a call in business owner today on one of the pundit shows. He said now that Obama has been re-elected he is not going to pay for Obamacare. He had over the minimum number of full time employees as of last night such that he would have had to pay for it. So he had to let five employees go to get to that number. But in order to decide who to fire he went out to the parking lot and noted who had an Obama sticker on their car and went in and fired only those who voted for Obama. Brilliant plan to me!



Exactly what is happening here. Our neighbor employs around 75 people. They said if Obama was re-elected they would lay off enough to get under that magic #, so 25 people are going to lose their jobs.


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## kendall j (Mar 30, 2007)

Belfrybat said:


> If your parents are Christian, suggest they look into a healthcare ministry (sort of like a co-op). I am a member of Christian Healthcare Ministries and pay $150.00 a month for $500.00 member responsiblity (ie. deductible) and $125,000. coverage on any one illness/accident. They also have an additional plan to cover up to 1 million per illness/accident. They have three plans at $45.00, $85.00 and $150.00 per month. I took the higher one as that also covers pre-existing plus outpatient care.
> Christian Healthcare Ministries: The affordable, biblical solution to healthcare costs



These are good programs. We use Samaritan ministries.

Samaritan Ministries International


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## Cindy in PA (May 13, 2002)

Wendy said:


> Exactly what is happening here. Our neighbor employs around 75 people. They said if Obama was re-elected they would lay off enough to get under that magic #, so 25 people are going to lose their jobs.


Well then your neighbor either doesn't need his employees or his business will go under for lack of employees. They can say whatever. Either they will run their business or not. 

As far as an insurance company laying off people, they were elated when there was no public option in the Healthcare bill and they wanted the penalty for people without healthcare, so they could reap the profits. If they laid someone off it is because they want more profit to go to the stockholders and the top brass and they want to get it by blaming Obama.

As was stated before, those of us with insurance have been paying for those without and they have been using the ER as their healthcare for years. Just because you don't see it on your bill, it is there. Get your legislators to improve the bill. Research for yourself and quit listening to the talking heads on the 24 hour news cycle.


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## fantasymaker (Aug 28, 2005)

katydidagain said:


> Kept the books for smaller businesses for many years; they did not make a profit on employee's health insuranc offered. Larger companies can self fund; in the past they probably did sometimes "earn" on the premiums employees paid in but any excess was targeted for unexpected future expenses and I'm pretty certain the "big payins" are long over. Government? Worked for the Feds many years ago; I don't know if they "pocketed a profit" from health insurance. Okay, they may have claimed they did but it's all smoke and mirrors with them so who knows? IME, what an employee pays is a portion of what insurance costs their employer. (Any profit would be taxable.) How much depends on the employer and the employee's worth to the organization.


Katy I dont think you get it at all. I never said a WORD about the employee paying a Dime . Im not saying the employer pays a buck and sells it for two.
What Im saying is the company gets a better deal on it than the employee could and the employee sees it as worth the end Or "retail" value.
Its the PERCIVED Value to the employee that the company enjoys . thats the whole point of "Benifits"



Bearfootfarm said:


> If your theory was correct, they never would have offered insurance to begin with.
> You've just bought into the fantasies


See the Above? Companies offer Benifits because they are a cheep way to add to what the employee sees as the Total compensation.


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## hiddensprings (Aug 6, 2009)

springvalley said:


> My question is, if someone poor enough can`t afford to buy their insurance, how on earth can they pay a penalty?? This is what i don`t understand about Obamacare, how can they force someone to do something they can`t afford to do. > Thanks Marc


Those that make under a certain amount (the poor) or those already getting handouts won't face penalties because those of us that do work and pay taxes will be footing the bill for their "free" healthcare. For others who make enough to not be considered "poor" will end up paying a penalty because it is cheaper then paying for the insurance. And, then just keep their fingers crossed that they don't get sick.


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## Danaus29 (Sep 12, 2005)

Using the 8% guideline dh would be paying less for insurance than he does now. We pay well over $400/month. So those with even moderate incomes qualify for subsidized insurance. Someone grossing $60,000 a year wouldn't be expected to pay more than $400 a month for insurance, regardless of however many children or other dependents they have covered. 

As a nation, how can we afford to subsidize all these people????? Employers will opt to pay the fine of $2,000 a year because it is much cheaper than the insurance. 

We never had a problem paying our portion of our insurance. And yes, we have expensive insurance. We chose a low co-pay low deductible plan because that is what we wanted. Now the govt comes along and says, "oh so sorry, you have an expensive insurance plan that has too low of a deductible. Now you need to either drop the insurance or pay an additional 40% tax because you have a 'cadillac plan'". 

Do I think the old way of doing things was fair? Absolutely not. But it was much better than forcing everyone to sign up for govt care. It's not like they were doing such a great job managing Medicare and Medicaid.


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## wes917 (Sep 26, 2011)

Affected me also, except I am now laid off, with an 18 month old and a 4 year old. Not sure what I will do here soon as benefits arent avaiable where my wife works.


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## Danaus29 (Sep 12, 2005)

That's another drawback. Companies don't have to offer insurance but people who need it can't access the new 0bamacare ins for a few years yet. 

wes, can you get ins for the children through your states job and family services or welfare dept? Many states offer insurance programs for children if your family income falls under a certain amount.


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## Buffy in Dallas (May 10, 2002)

Wendy said:


> Exactly what is happening here. Our neighbor employs around 75 people. They said if Obama was re-elected they would lay off enough to get under that magic #, so 25 people are going to lose their jobs.


Tell your neighbor that its 50 Full Time Employees. Emphasis on the FULL TIME. All he has to do is make employees # 49 through 75 part time employees and hire 24 more part timers.

Or to simplify things make all of his employees part time.


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## silverseeds (Apr 28, 2012)

Very interesting thread. Pretty obvious supporters of obamacare are very confused on several points. Learn it the hard way I guess.


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## nchobbyfarm (Apr 10, 2011)

We've got to pass it to see what is in it. Guess they should have seen what was in it first.


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## NickyBlade (May 27, 2008)

I'd bet it won't take long before there's a law about cutting full time employees to part time.


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

> See the Above? Companies offer Benifits because they are a cheep way to add to what the employee sees as the Total compensation.


Rewording a *silly idea* doesn't change it
If they were "greedy" they wouldn't offer it at all


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## watcher (Sep 4, 2006)

Cindy in PA said:


> Well then your neighbor either doesn't need his employees or his business will go under for lack of employees. They can say whatever. Either they will run their business or not.


There's a balance and he's going for it. I his opinion the profit the extra employees might make would not cover the extra cost he would incur keeping them hired. 




Cindy in PA said:


> As far as an insurance company laying off people, they were elated when there was no public option in the Healthcare bill and they wanted the penalty for people without healthcare, so they could reap the profits. If they laid someone off it is because they want more profit to go to the stockholders and the top brass and they want to get it by blaming Obama.


They failed to look at the big picture. They thought EVERYONE would be FORCED to buy insurance but this is not the case. Because now only the sick will buy 'insurance' (why buy it before you are sick?) which means there's no one paying for it but not using it.




Cindy in PA said:


> As was stated before, those of us with insurance have been paying for those without and they have been using the ER as their healthcare for years. Just because you don't see it on your bill, it is there. Get your legislators to improve the bill. Research for yourself and quit listening to the talking heads on the 24 hour news cycle.


So your solution to a problem is to make it easier? Isn't that like the Stooges drilling holes in the bottom of the boat to let the water out?


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## watcher (Sep 4, 2006)

hiddensprings said:


> Those that make under a certain amount (the poor) or those already getting handouts won't face penalties because those of us that do work and pay taxes will be footing the bill for their "free" healthcare. For others who make enough to not be considered "poor" will end up paying a penalty because it is cheaper then paying for the insurance. And, then just keep their fingers crossed that they don't get sick.


Why keep your fingers crossed? You get sick you can call the insurance company from your hospital bed and they will have to cover your "per-esisting" medical issue.


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## poppy (Feb 21, 2008)

Cindy in PA said:


> Well then your neighbor either doesn't need his employees or his business will go under for lack of employees. They can say whatever. Either they will run their business or not.
> 
> As far as an insurance company laying off people, they were elated when there was no public option in the Healthcare bill and they wanted the penalty for people without healthcare, so they could reap the profits. If they laid someone off it is because they want more profit to go to the stockholders and the top brass and they want to get it by blaming Obama.


Nonsense. Their revenue is down is the reason they are cutting back. You are correct that they thought Obamacare would allow them to sell more insurance but they failed to realize how much things like the medical device tax and pre-existing coverage was going to cost them in higher claims. They had to raise premiums to cover those things and now fewer people can afford the premiums and dropping their insurance.


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## wes917 (Sep 26, 2011)

Danaus29 said:


> That's another drawback. Companies don't have to offer insurance but people who need it can't access the new 0bamacare ins for a few years yet.
> 
> wes, can you get ins for the children through your states job and family services or welfare dept? Many states offer insurance programs for children if your family income falls under a certain amount.


We are checking into waiting on a booklet. I am worried we wont qualify because of the small savings we have. We will be covered fot 5 months so hopefully I will find work by then, but I have a herniated disc that needs surgery first, supposed to get done in the next week or so, unless I get a job first, then I will have to spend another year in pain.


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## Danaus29 (Sep 12, 2005)

I'll keep you in my thoughts and prayers. 

I know we had an awful time getting help with ins for dd when dh lost his job. The person we dealt with a JFS didn't understand much English and kept leaving us to help Spanish speaking people. Even though we had dd's birth certificate she put down that dd was over 18. Dd was 15 at the time. Took 3 months to get it straightened out but by then dh had another job where she was covered. I hope you don't have the trouble we had.


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## Aintlifegrand (Jun 3, 2005)

Danaus29 said:


> Using the 8% guideline dh would be paying less for insurance than he does now. We pay well over $400/month. So those with even moderate incomes qualify for subsidized insurance. Someone grossing $60,000 a year wouldn't be expected to pay more than $400 a month for insurance, regardless of however many children or other dependents they have covered.
> 
> *As a nation, how can we afford to subsidize all these people????? Employers will opt to pay the fine of $2,000 a year because it is much cheaper than the insurance. *
> 
> ...


We cannot and once that is realized the 8% will rise to 10%..then 12%..then 15% and so on...less people will be insured under this and more will pay penalities.. and those that _are_ insured will get less coverage..poor coverage..and less docs and more "govt" docs.. and the whole system will always be a money pit...medicare was similar..Ocare is a disaster..but the celebration goes on...just further proof to me that those who voted for him are the least informed groups in our country.


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## Ken Scharabok (May 11, 2002)

Yesterday I had two friends tell me their company has begun laying off full-time workers due to impending high health care costs on small companies. Thinking was if Romney was elected curbs would be put on Obamacare. Looks like from now on one can only hope for a part-time job with minimum health benefits.

One was a trucker. She said her company gave her the option of being laid off or buying her own truck cab and becoming an independent hire for them.


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## Ohiogal (Mar 15, 2007)

My company just laid off 61 full time workers. 40 of them were union drivers, teamsters, and now they are without anything. #1 reason was rising costs to pay their pension - and #2 reason was the cost of Obamacare. They are working to get under 50 people so they can avoid the penalties. If I'm still employed when this push is over with, I'm sure I'll be on the exchanges in Ohio because they are going to stop paying for healthcare as a benefit. I'm already on a very high deductible plan and pay into the plan, and pay for the services I receive, unless I pay $4K out of pocket yearly (then I get 80% back). So basically I'm paying 2x already for what I don't get reimbursed.
Folks, its not going to get any better.


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## Ken Scharabok (May 11, 2002)

In the trucking industry you are likely to see it go to a few major carriers and then a bunch of small ones with less than 50 employees. Those will be hard to compete against the majors due to fixed overhead being spread over a small number of employees.

I'm told at the local Wal-Mart it is very difficult to put in an application and being employed as a full-time, part-timer directly. They increase employees for the holidays and then use them as a pool to fill positions during the rest of the year.


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## TheMartianChick (May 26, 2009)

We went grocery shopping a little while ago. We only made a couple of stops but I saw "now hiring' signs at every stop... Price Rite Supermarkets is hiring (lowest job pays $11/hour). The concrete company across the street from Price Rite is hiring drivers. Dollar Tree is hiring. Those were the only places that we stopped at. Our hospitals are hiring and many of the new stores that have been installed in the mall are hiring, too.


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## Danaus29 (Sep 12, 2005)

Aintlifegrand said:


> We cannot and once that is realized the 8% will rise to 10%..then 12%..then 15% and so on...less people will be insured under this and more will pay penalities.. and those that _are_ insured will get less coverage..poor coverage..and less docs and more "govt" docs.. and the whole system will always be a money pit...medicare was similar..Ocare is a disaster..but the celebration goes on...just further proof to me that those who voted for him are the least informed groups in our country.


That is what I said all along about it. And those who have bothered to read the bill will see that it's an unsustainable money pit designed to bring the whole health care industry to it's knees. The govt will tell hospitals and suppliers what they are allowed to charge. Won't matter if it is less than cost. Tough cookies. People who need care will be denied, plain and simple. People who need expensive care will be put down, their death hastened by Hospice through drug overdoses. And every person who never collects a penny of their retirement or social security will be an added benefit to the next generation ensuring that the younger generations will view their elders as a drain on society. Not quite _Logan's Run_ but frighteningly close.

I fear for Mom and Pop and all the people over 65. I fear for dh and myself if we become "drains on the medical industry". 

Heil 0bama!


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## Sonshine (Jul 27, 2007)

wy_white_wolf said:


> Wife's employer has decided to drop most everyones hours to under 30 hours a week. No penalty from not supplying insurance for them as they only have part time employees.
> 
> Only a few managers will work full time.
> 
> WWW


I had heard that a lot of employers were going to go to a 29 hour work week so they don't risk going over the 30.


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## wwubben (Oct 13, 2004)

NickyBlade said:


> My son in law found out this morning that his employer will no longer offer health insurance come January because they can not afford it under Obamacare. So, SIL, DD, and my little grandson will be uninsured. Thanks Obama voters! :thumb:


The election didn't cost you anything.An idiot employer cost you.


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## arabian knight (Dec 19, 2005)

NickyBlade said:


> I'd bet it won't take long before there's a law about cutting full time employees to part time.


Yes that will happen as well as more companies just hire "part time" workers and keep their hours down so they don;t have to pay into this stupid healthcare carp. They HAVE to watch their bottom line and this healthcare bill will take way too much out of the profit margin that has already gotten smaller over the past few years. They Must watch that or can't compete, and will close doors.


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## nchobbyfarm (Apr 10, 2011)

wwubben said:


> The election didn't cost you anything.An idiot employer cost you.


That idiot employer created a job out of thin air and hired someone to perform certain tasks and make a profit for said employer per their business plan. The employer did not hold a gun to the employee's head to take the job. The govt passed a law changing the conditions of employment without considering or not caring how the law would affect the business model. Now the business model will not allow for enough profit for the amount of risk by the employer. So it is the employee that will lose benefits or the job because big brother changed the rules that the employer agreed to hire the employee under. It is the employers job and they can hire who they wish or in fact cancel the job. 

Once again, elections have consequences. Liberals are blaming the greedy employer instead of who actually caused this to happen, themselves.

I am sorry for anyone affected and send my prayers that each finds adequate employment in the near future. I may be next to lose my job.


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## NickyBlade (May 27, 2008)

I'm not sorry for the ones that chose this path... and, I'm disappointed in myself for feeling this way, but I can't wait until the aftermath hits equally across the board. We'll see how smug some responses are when it hits home with employers that they know aren't idiots or uncaring. Maybe then they can blame the correct source. 

Me and mine will be ok regardless. We're smart, hard workers, and tend to play life like a game. You just have to figure out the constantly changing rules, live within them, and work them to your advantage.


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## watcher (Sep 4, 2006)

TheMartianChick said:


> We went grocery shopping a little while ago. We only made a couple of stops but I saw "now hiring' signs at every stop... Price Rite Supermarkets is hiring (lowest job pays $11/hour). The concrete company across the street from Price Rite is hiring drivers. Dollar Tree is hiring. Those were the only places that we stopped at. Our hospitals are hiring and many of the new stores that have been installed in the mall are hiring, too.


They will need new people to cover the extra shifts. If you have 3 workers working 40 hours a week and you cut them to 30 hrs a week you need a fourth worker to cover the other hrs.

Add in the fact that now its going to be a lot more lucrative to get paid by the government, i.e. NOT WORK, business are going to be in a major bind. After all why would anyone want to work for $10/hr when they can stay at home and have fun and make $12/hr?


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## NickyBlade (May 27, 2008)

Our stores in upstate NY and my home town area in western NY always have now hiring signs up... some stores have a really high turnover. Then, you go work for them and find out why. lol. 

Other places are simply always accepting applications... but in NYS if you don't qualify for One Stop, good luck getting a McJob even if that's all your after just to get out of the house.


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