# Yorkshire-Duroc cross=Tamworth



## Dstrnad (Aug 9, 2014)

I just bought some feeder pigs that are a Yorkshire Duroc cross and they look like Tamworth. I questioned the seller and he said there was just a little Tamworth in one of the grand parents. Out of the litter 8 were pure red pointy ears etc and 2 were pure white. Also the gilt's vulva is sticking out like a little sack 1 1/2" Does not look inflamed or anything. He said that was also breed specific. My 2 Hereford gilts do not have this and I do not recall ever seeing it on any piglets before. I'm happy with the piglets just curious if that kind of cross will consistently produce similar piglets.

Thanks
Dave


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## WildRoots (Nov 24, 2013)

That's weird, never seen one sticking out like that. I don't see how that is breed specific. 


Wild Roots Farms Pompey, NY.


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## ErikaMay (Feb 28, 2013)

I'vego t a friend with several females like that. don't know if its affected their breeding skills....


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## Lazy J (Jan 2, 2008)

When I see swollen vulvas on immature gilts my first thought is that the pigs have consumed feed tainted with mycotoxins, specifically Zearalanone which has estrogen-like activities in the pig's body. But based on the size of these piglets I don't know if that is a possibility or not.


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## highlands (Jul 18, 2004)

Like LazyJ, mycotoxins is my first guess. Now that they're on your farm that may change with the change in feed. Don't feed moldy feed.

Tamworth is a completely different breed than York x Duroc. Here's a web site of breeds:

http://www.ansi.okstate.edu/breeds/swine/

Tamworth are older than Duroc.

-Walter


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## garzafarm (Aug 7, 2014)

How many of his sows were like that. Are you planning on breeding them. In my opinion I would not breed them. I feel that they are a little unsound. They look like they have humped backs. Legs are to straight. I would track the amount of feed that you feed them and see how long it takes you to get them to 250. I shoot for 800 lbs of feed in 180 days. +- this is just my opinion. 


Chris Garza
Calhan Co
Hog farming is our main income. 

Sent from my iPhone using Homesteading Today


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## Dstrnad (Aug 9, 2014)

Thanks for the great info. I too think mycotoxin may be the culprit after reading more about it. They are going to be eaten so no worries on passing on genes. As far as the cross I should have been more specific. Does a York Duroc cross consistently produce offspring similar in appearance to a Tamworth? Or by having just a little Tamworth in the gene pool explain the looks? If the 2 white ones were not in the pen I would have assumed they were Tamworth. I am still a green horn, my experience so far I see a lot of variation in piglets from crosses. I suppose it is foolish to identify the breed just based on visual appearance.


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## Lazy J (Jan 2, 2008)

There is no comparison between a typical York or Duroc and a Tamworth. The Tamworth has not been selected for muscling like the York or Duroc, nor have they been selected for economically important traits such as growth, feed conversion, or litter performance.


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## Dstrnad (Aug 9, 2014)

I guess that is what I am getting at. Do these pigs look like a York Duroc cross to you with a touch of Tamworth 2 generations ago?


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## highlands (Jul 18, 2004)

We have piglets that look just like that. They are Yorkshire x Tamworth. No Duroc known to be in the genetics but you never know... Well, I do know the last 13 years (Our 11 years + 2 years beyond) of their genetics but no further back than that. 

So sure, could be, maybe...

If they're just going to meat is there a specific issue with the question or is it just curiosity?

-Walter


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## Dstrnad (Aug 9, 2014)

Just curiosity I never paid much attention to breed before, but in the near future we will be raising on pasture, breeding, etc. So I have been trying to figure out what breed to get. Tamworth was one I was researching. These piglets were advertised as York Duroc, but when I got there they looked like Tamworth. Any way one trait that I want is a dark or red color to avoid sunburn. I really like the Herefords but their ears and face keep getting burned. They have shade but they seem to lay out in the sun only going in the shade when it is also hot.Just courious nothing more.


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## highlands (Jul 18, 2004)

We have pure bred lines of Tamworth, Large Black, Berkshire, Yorkshire and cross lines. I find that the Tamworth we got were slow growers and that fits with what I've read and heard from other people. The ones we have are very good summer mothers but poor winter mothers. They are also very calm. The trait they carry that I'm particularly interested in is our line has 16 to 18 teats. I'm transferring those genes into our cross lines. It's a long term project.

Note that breed defines a number of overall characteristics like physical form, size, color, marbling, etc but the line of the pig can actually be much more important when determining pasture-ability, mothering, calmness, winter-ability, etc.

Flavor comes from feed and is stored in fat. That relates back to breed because different breeds marble and put on fat differently the the feed far outweighs the breed on this. Age is also important in terms of marbling for most pigs.

It's complicated - have fun. 

-Walter


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## Pig in a poke (Mar 27, 2013)

Arched backs are not good?


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## garzafarm (Aug 7, 2014)

If you are raising hogs for meat then it does not matter if they have arched backs. For breeding I don't like arched backs because the boar will have a hard time inserting his penis in to the sow. When they are arched the sows tend to tuck there rears forward making it hard for the boar to reach her. 


Chris Garza
Calhan Co
Hog farming is our main income. 

Sent from my iPhone using Homesteading Today


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## Dstrnad (Aug 9, 2014)

Speaking of breeds the more I read the more confused I get. I have seen at least 5 different heritage breeds described as the Kobe beef of pork, a lot of info contradicts each other, etc. I just this year went to an outdoor pig tractor moving it regularly and still feeding heavily. I probally will buy whatever I can find locally for now and at least the first round through the pasture as a construction crew. Then try to find someone doing things like I want to for breeding stock.


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## highlands (Jul 18, 2004)

"Kobe Beef of Pork" isn't a breed but a marketing claim. People trying to differentiate their product from other people's. For descriptions of the breeds I would start with the Oki State web site:

http://www.ansi.okstate.edu/resources/general/swine

and specifically here:

http://www.ansi.okstate.edu/breeds/swine/

More at Wiki which is generally pretty good because so many people are watching the editing process:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Search?search=breeds of swine&go=Go

We tried the pig tractor route long ago and found it was too much work. Okay with a few piglets for a while but they quickly outgrow it. Perhaps more importantly, our land is rough and sloped. On flat land it may work better.


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## garzafarm (Aug 7, 2014)

All pigs will graze. Some do It better then others. Some need to be taught. When I first started I put goats with my pigs so they would learn how. Now the older ones teach the younger ones. 


Chris Garza
Calhan Co
Hog farming is our main income. 

Sent from my iPhone using Homesteading Today


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## garzafarm (Aug 7, 2014)

Electric fencing is the best. I use it all over my pasture. 


Chris Garza
Calhan Co
Hog farming is our main income. 

Sent from my iPhone using Homesteading Today


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## Dstrnad (Aug 9, 2014)

The pig tractor is just for now. I had everything to build it. It is 14 x 14 with a corner shelter. I was just going to do 2 at a time but had interest in more. If I keep one and sell the other 3 then I end up better off
Not really much more trouble for 2 more. As far as the Kobe beef thing I know its not a breed. I was trying to express that it seems everyone thinks their breed is best which rightfully so other wise they wouldn't' be raising them. An example is the Hereford hog. Some sites describe it as a fast growing breed with marbled red meat. Other sites describe them as slow growing lean bacon hog. Which to believe? I have seen the following breeds all described as the kobe beef of pork Berkshire, Mangalista, large black, Hereford, Mulefoot and others. It seems there is almost too much info and opinions out there.

Walter,
It seems you have raised or are raising many of these breeds. Any suggestions on what breeds or crosses to try to start breeding? Good wintering outside, mothering, nice marbled red meat, but not a lard hog. ( I believe that my market would rather have a few extra pork chops than an extra bucket of lard) Quick growth, good pasturing ability supplemented with non gmo hog grower. etc. So far I am leaning towards either berkshire, duroc, hereford, large black or crosses of those. I realize It will take time to figure out what works for me, just trying to make good choices to start.


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## Allen W (Aug 2, 2008)

Dstrnad said:


> I guess that is what I am getting at. Do these pigs look like a York Duroc cross to you with a touch of Tamworth 2 generations ago?


A true F1 york/duroc cross would be a blue roan, white with small plue spots on it's body.


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## highlands (Jul 18, 2004)

Choice of breeds is a very personal thing. People have all sorts of reasons for their selection, some practical like you list, some because they like the looks of a breed, some because it is a breed they've had experience with.

Our criteria is like yours. Economics (producing meat our customers want) and doing well on pasture in our climate among other things so the breeds we use are some that you might consider although no need to limit to just those. We have:

Yorkshire: Good mothering, pasture-ability, fast growth, big, long (think chops and bacon), etc.

Berkshire: Marbling (note ours are the long legged taller version, not the lard type)

Large Black: Marbling, mothering, pasture-ability (we have two separate lines of this breed)

Tamworth: Bacon pig (long)

In our case I didn't really pick Tamworth as much as they dropped in my lap - a small herd that happened to have 16 to 18 teats. Tams are slower growing which is a negative but those extra teats beckoned and I've been integrating them into our cross lines.

This is a good place to point out how important the line of pigs is within the breed. There are Tams that have 12 teats which other people have. I got luck to have gotten some that had high teat counts. Likewise many characteristics can vary within a breed like this including mothering ability, temperament, etc. Breed is really about overall general conformation, line is the fine details. With time I've improved the each of our lines - it's an ongoing process. Long term my goal is to continue picking through the genetics, weeding out issues, strengthening them and moving the genes I want into our Mainline. Ultimately I will probably have only one cross line of that. It has taken eleven years to get where we are and I can see at least that much work in the future on their gene lines. Fortunately pigs breed fast and wide and grow quickly.

When you select breeders, get pigs from someone else in a similar climate, preferably locally who has most of all been raising them on pasture the way you want to so that you get a leg up on the genetics.

Cheers,

-Walter


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## Pig in a poke (Mar 27, 2013)

Can anyone post pictures or direct me to a photo comparison of lard vs. lean type Berkshires? Or start a new thread if that is more appropriate.


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## njenner (Jul 15, 2013)

I would like to see photo comparison too - very interested in this.


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## highlands (Jul 18, 2004)

This pig is a lard Berkshire:

http://www.heirloomgroup.com/2011/01/why-the-berkshire-pig-is-a-breed-apart/

This pig is a long legged lean Berkshire:

http://www.ansi.okstate.edu/breeds/swine/berkshire/


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## njenner (Jul 15, 2013)

Wow! Thanks Walter for the links - looks like two different breeds


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## FarmerDavid (Jul 16, 2012)

Does anyone still have the lard type?


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## highlands (Jul 18, 2004)

Yes, follow the first link.


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## njenner (Jul 15, 2013)

Now that I see the difference - I know the sow of my AGH/Berk cross was the lean type. My gilt is really a cross! This is her taken 8-11. I estimate about 150 pounds at 8 months.


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## gerold (Jul 18, 2011)

highlands said:


> This pig is a lard Berkshire:
> 
> http://www.heirloomgroup.com/2011/01/why-the-berkshire-pig-is-a-breed-apart/
> 
> ...


Thinks for the links. I will be getting some Berks. I would like the shorter more fat type ones. I wonder where the taller slim lean type ones came from.


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## FarmerDavid (Jul 16, 2012)

highlands said:


> Yes, follow the first link.


Ha I just scrolled down for the pic, didn't even notice it was an article.


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## FarmerDavid (Jul 16, 2012)

gerold said:


> Thinks for the links. I will be getting some Berks. I would like the shorter more fat type ones. I wonder where the taller slim lean type ones came from.


I've read but can't remember right now. They all came from the same line but the type changed when people's eating habits changed. I'd like to have one of the more lard types, I wouldn't say mine are as lean as the link but not a lard hog.


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## gerold (Jul 18, 2011)

FarmerDavid said:


> I've read but can't remember right now. They all came from the same line but the type changed when people's eating habits changed. I'd like to have one of the more lard types, I wouldn't say mine are as lean as the link but not a lard hog.


I like the lard type also. That's what i have been looking for in the Berks.
I also like the Spot Poland China which looks to me more a lard hog then the black and white ones. Years ago on the farm we had the spotted ones. Most in this part of the country had the spotted ones.


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## highlands (Jul 18, 2004)

gerold said:


> Thinks for the links. I will be getting some Berks. I would like the shorter more fat type ones. I wonder where the taller slim lean type ones came from.


With our steep, rough, mountain side pastures we prefer the longer legged pigs. Over the years I've been inadvertently selecting for longer legs simply because they do better in our pastures and deep snows. Eventually I'll get them up to be elephants... 

There isn't a lot of demand for fat in our market. 99% of the people want lean. Jack Sprat and all that.

Cheers,

-Walter


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## Pig in a poke (Mar 27, 2013)

Walter, Thanks for the Berkshire links. Our boar is definitely the lean type.
Njenner, I am looking forward to hearing what your AGH x Berk cross meat:lard ratio is. I am thinking mine will be a lot like yours. And I am now thinking I want to find a lard-type Berk.


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## gerold (Jul 18, 2011)

highlands said:


> With our steep, rough, mountain side pastures we prefer the longer legged pigs. Over the years I've been inadvertently selecting for longer legs simply because they do better in our pastures and deep snows. Eventually I'll get them up to be elephants...
> 
> There isn't a lot of demand for fat in our market. 99% of the people want lean. Jack Sprat and all that.
> 
> ...


For meat hogs the people around here want more fat hogs. I Have one lady that takes two lean hogs in the fall. (York). People have also been wanting more fat hogs for roasting. Half the 4H kids want fat hogs and half want Yorks and Bluebutts. I will keep 6 york sows but increasing on the Herefords and other lard hogs.


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## Dstrnad (Aug 9, 2014)

Is the hereford considered a lard hog?


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## highlands (Jul 18, 2004)

No. You can feed any pig to lard but some have shorter bodies and put on more fat than muscle - thus the lard pigs.


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## gerold (Jul 18, 2011)

Dstrnad said:


> Is the hereford considered a lard hog?


Hereford is not classed as a lard hog. However it has more lard then most lean hogs. 
Hereford is Duroc/Poland China cross. One of the best pasture pigs with very little grain. 250 lbs. in 5-6 mos. 600 lbs. plus in 2 years.
Marbled meat is a big plus for flavor in the Hereford.


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## Philosaw (Mar 3, 2014)

gerold said:


> Hereford is not classed as a lard hog. However it has more lard then most lean hogs.
> Hereford is Duroc/Poland China cross. One of the best pasture pigs with very little grain. 250 lbs. in 5-6 mos. 600 lbs. plus in 2 years.
> Marbled meat is a big plus for flavor in the Hereford.



Gerold,
Is that on pasture or I guess I should ask: what do you feed 'em?


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## FarmerDavid (Jul 16, 2012)

gerold said:


> Hereford is not classed as a lard hog. However it has more lard then most lean hogs.
> Hereford is Duroc/Poland China cross. One of the best pasture pigs with very little grain. 250 lbs. in 5-6 mos. 600 lbs. plus in 2 years.
> Marbled meat is a big plus for flavor in the Hereford.


Is there something else in there or why did I think they were a three way cross?


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## gerold (Jul 18, 2011)

Philosaw said:


> Gerold,
> Is that on pasture or I guess I should ask: what do you feed 'em?


Yes all my pigs are on pasture. 5 different grass mix in the pasture. They also have 10 plus acres of woods to root in. They all do very well on pasture. 
The Hereford do graze more then the Yorks and Bluebutts. Maybe a couple hours more per day.

Ground corn mix. Minerals plus Vit. about 2 lbs each per day. Most people feed their pigs in the evening. I feed my pigs 8 am every day. They feed in pasture a couple hour each morning before I feed them. After I feed them they sleep for about an hour and then go back to the pasture and feed.


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## gerold (Jul 18, 2011)

FarmerDavid said:


> Is there something else in there or why did I think they were a three way cross?


Yes I think there is a 3rd one in there. Not for sure but I think it was the Chester White.


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## FarmerDavid (Jul 16, 2012)

gerold said:


> Yes I think there is a 3rd one in there. Not for sure but I think it was the Chester White.


That's it, couldn't remember for some reason. Trying to buy some gilts from your guy but we keep missing phone calls.


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## Dstrnad (Aug 9, 2014)

Is that 5-6 months from birth or starting with feeders?


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## gerold (Jul 18, 2011)

Dstrnad said:


> Is that 5-6 months from birth or starting with feeders?


From birth. I don't buy feeders.


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## tansyflower (Dec 16, 2013)

i have a few york/map/duroc crosses and the piglets from their original litter had a ton of variation. blue roan, totally black pigs, ones that looked like durocs and black and white belted pigs. it really was all over the map.


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