# Quieter Firearm "WANTED" for Big Game...Quietest non-suppressed



## Sourdough (Dec 28, 2011)

NO......I don't want to get back into archery........

NO......I don't want a cross-bow.........

NO......I don't want to buy or build a sound suppressor.......

It is easier to roughly pinpoint the direction of a discharged rifle, than a shotgun. The rifle having a sharp crack, and the shotgun having a more muffled (Relatively) broader type bark, that sounds more like a thump than a crack.

So I am thunking post SHTF/TEOTWAWKI and I want to harvest a moose or grizzly bear for meat. But, I want to do it without drawing attention to the exact location. Yes, they will know it was a firearm discharged, but the more muffled the better.

So I am open to suggestions. At this point I am leaning towards buying a long (24") full rifled barreled 20 ga. shotgun. The range would be close, and accuracy need only be 5" to 12" at 25 yards, so 20 to 48 MOA is fine.

Any suggestions....??? Any thoughts....???

YES.....I have killed a lot of Moose and a lot of Grizzly Bears......no, I don't want to use a .22 long rifle.


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

There's no real advantage to a long barreled slug gun and a shorter barrel will be easier to handle.

Use solid copper slugs and it will do the job on the game you want out to 75-100 yds

I'd look at a Remington 870 or if you want a slightly lighter gun, the 870 Youth model


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## Sourdough (Dec 28, 2011)

Longer sight radius......I am also thinking I would drill a bunch of 1/16" holes at about 16" to bleed off gasses, and dial-in sub-sonic velocity, and still have 8" to stabilize the slug. 



Bearfootfarm said:


> There's no real advantage to a long barreled slug gun and a shorter barrel will be easier to handle.l


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## TnAndy (Sep 15, 2005)

I think you're asking the impossible. You've said "no" to a suppressor, but are asking for exactly what one does.


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## Sourdough (Dec 28, 2011)

Yes, one option is getting a 21" rifled barrel for my youth model Remington 11-87 20 ga. http://www.shopremingtoncountry.com...archPage=1&searchRank=salesrank&searchSize=12



Bearfootfarm said:


> I'd look at a Remington 870 or if you want a slightly lighter gun, the 870 Youth model


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## brosil (Dec 15, 2003)

There are some large caliber air rifles that might be quieter. Whether they can reliably take down a moose is something you'll have to research. I don't know how quiet they would be.


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## TripleD (Feb 12, 2011)

If SHTF has already happened it wont matter . Just build the suppressor and no one will hear you.


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## Sourdough (Dec 28, 2011)

Not asking to do "Exactly" what a sound suppressor would do......BUT, what would come close to that or "Closest" to that. Remember I am 69 y/o and living on $672.00 a month social security, and 90 miles from town. Applying for and paying for a suppressor are not what I want to do. 



TnAndy said:


> I think you're asking the impossible. You've said "no" to a suppressor, but are asking for exactly what one does.


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## Sourdough (Dec 28, 2011)

What about 20 ga. shotgun shells loaded with Black Powder and slugs........???


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## MD Steader (Mar 11, 2010)

I don't want to bust your bubble but any firearm is going to give a a near 100 decibel report. I have an H&R ultra slugster, basically what you are talking about, single shot rifled 20ga slug gun, its loud. 

You can drill the barrel to give you a ported gun, that is going to make it louder for anyone standing next to you AND the people in front of you. Ask anyone shooting a ported shotgun. 

Unless you've shot a suppressed rifle then what you see in the movies is a myth, a suppressed gun doesn't knock off that much DB. 

I would suck it up and take the chance and get a proper rifle. Even a surplus mosin would do you good. Your in Alaska and you should have plenty of people shooting. I too would nix the bow, your hunting moose and bear, i;d have to set stomped by a wounded moose or attacked by a wounded bear.


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

Sourdough said:


> Longer sight radius......I am also thinking I would drill a bunch of 1/16" holes at about 16" to bleed off gasses, and dial-in sub-sonic velocity, and still have 8" to stabilize the slug.


You'd be trashing a perfectly usable firearm, and not reducing the noise at all.
Most shotgun slugs are barely supersonic as it is.

Why even worry about "sight radius" when you said 2-4 FOOT groups were good enough?

Do you REALLY want to shoot a grizzly bear at close range with a severely under- powered load?


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

Sourdough said:


> What about 20 ga. shotgun shells loaded with Black Powder and slugs........???


You'd ruin a gas operated gun shooting BP shells.

The best option is a rifled barrel for your current shotgun, and to stop worrying so much about the noise.


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## Sourdough (Dec 28, 2011)

I own about sixty-five or seventy "PROPER" rifles. After 34 years as a Professional Alaska Hunting Guide and Outfitter, and about 300 plus bears, I have some rough idea what I am doing.



MD Steader said:


> I would suck it up and take the chance and get a proper rifle.


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## TnAndy (Sep 15, 2005)

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...e=as2&tag=seamchll-20&linkId=UUE5PONSI4LZVLXQ


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## MD Steader (Mar 11, 2010)

Sourdough said:


> I own about sixty-five or seventy "PROPER" rifles. After 34 years as a Professional Alaska Hunting Guide and Outfitter, and about 300 plus bears, I have some rough idea what I am doing.


That wasn't clear from the OP and that being said you should have your own answer.


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## Sourdough (Dec 28, 2011)

Well, I am not so arrogant as to assume that I know everything about this subject. The goal is exactly as outlined in the original post. If someone harvests an animal post SHTF, a very small amount of difference in sound volume or wind direction carrying the sound could make the difference between the hunter and his family eating, or others taking the harvest away because they could identify the shot location.

What part of this line in the original post (YES.....I have killed a lot of Moose and a lot of Grizzly Bears......no, I don't want to use a .22 long rifle.) led you to think I did not own a firearm.............???????? Did you even read the original post........or just the thread title.......??????? 



MD Steader said:


> That wasn't clear from the OP and that being said you should have your own answer.


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## MD Steader (Mar 11, 2010)

Sourdough said:


> Well, I am not so arrogant as to assume that I know everything about this subject. The goal is exactly as outlined in the original post. If someone harvests an animal post SHTF, a very small amount of difference in sound volume or wind direction carrying the sound could make the difference between the hunter and his family eating, or others taking the harvest away because they could identify the shot location.


No problem. but it still remains they all go bang pretty ---- loud. 

Monkeying with drilling holes in the barrel will only re-direct the sound not lessen it. BP in a shotgun shell is still loud, long time ago we loaded stuff like that for a charity trap meet. If you got the BP blooper you won a prize. I shot flintlock and know of a BP shotgun shooter, still loud. 

I would also be hesitant to shoot a downloaded cartridge and any dangerous game. You begin a guide could understand why. 

If anything a crossbow would be the best best, shoots and handles like a rifle and very silent. 

Even so, finding a shot location in the woods isn't all that easy, you'll know the general direction but you still have to find it.


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

Sourdough said:


> I own about sixty-five or seventy "PROPER" rifles. After 34 years as a Professional Alaska Hunting Guide and Outfitter, and about 300 plus bears, I have some rough idea what I am doing.


If you say so, carry on.


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## GREENCOUNTYPETE (Jul 25, 2006)

a heavy bullet with a fast powder , long barrel , from a locked breach is about as quiet as you can get 

you probably already have a gun that would work about as well as any 

the heaviest cast bullet you can find for a caliber and a small charge of fast burning powder like bulls-eye your looking to keep the bullet sub sonic and have most of the powder burnt before the end of the barrel basicly a gallery load but with a heavy bullet 

it definitely won't be suppressed quiet but 22 like for a round that will penetrate much further 

it isn't really much different than the guys building sub sonic suppressed rounds accept that they want enough gas to cycle the action but if you cycle the action yourself like a bolt action you can use different powders that you likely may already have 

look at this boolit http://noebulletmolds.com/NV/product_info.php?products_id=205

with just enough fast burning powder to get it around 900 fps should give good penetration at 25 yards

the nice part is you keep some very decent accuracy , I have gallery loads that will shoot an inch at 25 yards 
also if you have fire formed brass a few very simple hand tools and you can load them any where


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## GREENCOUNTYPETE (Jul 25, 2006)

the other thing that might help a little is a muzzle device that directs the noise forward it doesn't make it quieter just directed forward.

I was at the range the other day and a friend was shooting his AR it was loud but not as loud shooting right next to him as it used to be , he showed me his new muzzle device it was just a tube about an inch in diameter that was maybe 2 inches long 

not sure if this was it but it was similar looking http://www.kakindustry.com/kak-industry-flash-can


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## StL.Ed (Mar 6, 2011)

If you are truly talking about SHTF/TEOTWAWKI situations, TnAndy probably has the best answer. 
Using an oil filter and an adapter is, apparently, effective and relatively low cost. (I've seen these on the web, but have no personal knowledge of them.)
If you buy an adapter, it MIGHT be subject to regulation/licensing, but if you build it later (after TEOTWAWKI) it would be less of a concern.

There's more discussion on this page: 
http://www.2acheck.com/oil-filter-suppressor/

"*Of course, you will need to pay the $200 tax stamp if you want to be legal."*


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## Sourdough (Dec 28, 2011)

Yes, I have those on several of my AR rifles and AR pistols. I have even slid a 16" long piece of PVC or ABS tubing over it at times. They can create an "OVER" Gassed situation on an AR, as it is increasing the time dwell for pressure on the gas tube.

The position of the shooter also impacts the sound, firing from prone position will greatly reduce sound transfer. As will shooting from will inside and enclosure, like a tree-house or out my cabin window, if the muzzle is well inside the window frame.

I have some 28.4" long barreled .22 LR firearms (CZ-452 Ultra Lux) that are very quiet even with high velocity ammo.





GREENCOUNTYPETE said:


> the other thing that might help a little is a muzzle device that directs the noise forward it doesn't make it quieter just directed forward.
> 
> I was at the range the other day and a friend was shooting his AR it was loud but not as loud shooting right next to him as it used to be , he showed me his new muzzle device it was just a tube about an inch in diameter that was maybe 2 inches long
> 
> not sure if this was it but it was similar looking http://www.kakindustry.com/kak-industry-flash-can


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## Dutch 106 (Feb 12, 2008)

Hey ,
As an indirect answer, check around for a copy of sniper, silencers and assains a well written book that covers the basic principles of how they work so wtshtf you can take a bunch of extra parts together and build one it might not be a sexy as something carefully machined. But they are not difficult technology. Shotgun's are particularly simple to Suppress (the correct technical term for everyone not in Hollywood)
Cheers,
Dutch


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## GREENCOUNTYPETE (Jul 25, 2006)

Dutch 106 said:


> Hey ,
> As an indirect answer, check around for a copy of sniper, silencers and assains a well written book that covers the basic principles of how they work so wtshtf you can take a bunch of extra parts together and build one it might not be a sexy as something carefully machined. But they are not difficult technology. Shotgun's are particularly simple to Suppress (the correct technical term for everyone not in Hollywood)
> Cheers,
> Dutch



shotguns is that because of the fast burning powder long barrel and conveniently threaded choke tubes ?


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

> shotguns is that because of the fast burning powder long barrel and conveniently threaded choke tubes ?


I think it's more due to much lower pressures and barely supersonic velocities even with heavy loads.


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## jbo9 (Oct 30, 2012)

I'll venture an answer, but maybe I shouldn't. I reloaded some colt 45 rounds that ended up being very quiet out of a pistol, much less noise than 22lr. 255 grains of lead would be a start, but I dont know how the velocity was, if it would have had the penitration desired for the task. Accuracy was just fine. You might try playing with some of the cowboy shooting rounds as a starting point.


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## DryHeat (Nov 11, 2010)

A couple points about the basic scenario you're presenting: 1) How would anyone hearing the report from a distance away know that anything had been hit and was being harvested? 2) How would anyone be sure that some other *human* hadn't just been bushwhacked and even "harvested"? 3) In deep wilderness, I'd think a lot of people would be inclined to avoid the direction of gunfire rather than head toward it. Of course, if you might be firing in proximity to a regular camp or substantial cache I can see the need for precautions.

I'd say look into that air rifle idea. Here's a link to the one reportedly carried on the Lewis and Clark expedition: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Girandoni_air_rifle


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## fishinshawn (Nov 8, 2010)

Your in Alaska man, there is like 1 person for every 4 miles or something? If there ever was a SHTF scenario AK will probably survive it better then anywhere else.


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