# Guard Dog to protect against illegals.



## NamasteMama

We have a German Shepherd right now, 8 month old, i really made a mistake getting hime, his way to high energy drive for our family dynamics, eats chickens, chases cats, and we may consider rehoming him to a neighbor who who trains K9 police dogs. We may try fixing him and seeing if that helps a bit. I just know I made a bad choice for our family and our needs and its not fair to him.

In the mean time we need a good protective dog. We are moving 70 mile from the boarder and I need to get a dog, preferably a couple years old who is good with the kids and kitties, but has natural protection instincts with out wanting to eat every one that comes on our property. There are known drug corridors in the areas and while the illegals looking for work dont pose much danger the drug traffickers are scary!

Any suggestions? We have been an English Mastiff Family in the past and consider this our favorite breed. I got a shepherd because we wanted to try a smaller dog (haha) I am of the personal opinion that they take way to much training to make a good dog. I like how my mastiffs knew good people from bad right off the bat and didn't take a ton of training to get them to do what you wanted.


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## NamasteMama

46 views and no replies


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## Whisperwindkat

We love our mastiffs. That being said we also loved our Rhodesian Ridgebacks. They were fierce when needed and gentle as lambs when needed. They were all around property guards. They also don't eat as much as the mastiffs do. I had GSDs growing up. Two of them were Shutzhund trained and they were awesome dogs. An 8 month old anything needs something to do to occupy their time. Maybe your GSD would benefit from some Shutzhund basics or even full Shutzhund training. Every guard dog needs to be evaluated for guard temperament...will they actually engage if needed and will they recall when told. Being able to recall is as important as the dog actually engaging. I would be doing lots of focus work with the GSD. Once they have the focus then they will be much better farm dogs. Blessings, Kat


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## CesumPec

Every pup needs training. If I'm reading you wrong, sorry, but it doesn't sound like you've put a lot of time and effort into getting this young guy a fair chance. It doesn't sound like you've got an older dog that would serve as a trainer either. 

It also sounds like you have rather high expectations. There is nothing wrong with that if you are willing to put the work in. But you want a dog that is going to check for green cards (OK, I exaggerate) and illegal drugs but let US citizens with no ill intent pass on through? That's asking for a lot.


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## DarleneJ

NamasteMama said:


> 46 views and no replies


At first I was going to reply that I don't have anything to comment on your perspective that you would want to hear. But anyway, for what it's worth, here's my 2 cents...

Dogs are not robots they are relational animals. If you want a guard dog, spend the money on one that has been trained by someone who understands dogs. Just because they are a certain breed doesn't mean they will read your mind and automatically know their job description.

You're moving to the place you are and will only have one animal to defend your place? Sorry, but I think it's cruel to risk the animals life that way. How is a single dog going to protect itself from a drug cartel that doesn't even respect human life?

If you don't take the time/energy to invest in them, they will never please you. German Shepherds are fine dogs. Mine hangs with the girls (chickens) and doesn't chase any animal that doesn't run.

Why don't you just find the shepherd a good home and get yourself a gun?


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## linn

A guard dog will not be able to tell the difference in illegal aliens and the postman, UPS man, the FedEx guy or the man that comes to read the meter. If you get a dog fierce enough to chase or attack an illegal then be prepared for it to take on anyone who invades its territory.


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## HayBabies

The problem is see is most guard dog breeds. Doberman. German Shepherd, Rotts, ect are all high energy breeds. They will need a lot of exercise and training. Don't have a lot of experience in mastiffs but I would think they would still need some form of exercise and training when young. I would think it might be better to get a dog that will bark and let you know something is going on. Then you can go grab your shot gun. Even guard dogs can only just give you some time to react. Not many can completely stop a adult man who is up to no good.


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## bluemoonluck

I've got a 3-year old Rottweiler who would be great for your situation. Good with cats and kids. If you introduce him to people he's good with them, but he patrols our fence line and barks at anyone who's walking past. He's from German Working Lines, is obedience trained both on and off lead, and has earned his CGC title.

I got him when I lived on my mini-farm in Utah and he hates life in suburbia! We now live on a tiny little corner lot in a busy subdivision with a well-traveled sidewalk 15 feet from our fence. When I put him out he spends all his time patrolling the fence line barking at people. We've been trying to find a home in a more rural setting for him, because clearly our current location isn't working for him.

Of course I live in VA, so we're a heck of a long way away from you....but if you can figure out how to get him from here to you, you're welcome to him


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## NamasteMama

Thanks for the offer blue moon, I may chat with you more about him.

I'm not unrealistic in that I admittedly got a dog that required more training than I am able to handle. Stupid me. There is a training centre where I can send him for shutzhund but it's $2000 and that's a lot of cash to put out when we already know we can't meet his needs. Health wise I am unable to meet my dogs needs for his high drive and energy needs. This dog goes on a gruelling 5 mile hike with my husband and and is ready for more.he has basic train don't get me wrong there. He would be better suited for herding etc. I don't think I should keep him in a situation he's not happy and thriving in.

When I had my mastiffs they just knew good people VS bad, it was ingrained in their DNA to know how to protect and you didn't need to teach them how to do that job. They would let good people on our property no problem, but only once did my masittiff stand between me and a man and bark at him. We later found out the guy had raped someone. also only needed short walks and rarely barked. As mentioned in this thread they eat so much! A $40 bag of food a week gets expensive. I am looking for suggestions for a breed with a similar temperament that's all. We would get more than one dog, we wouldn't leave one dog alone. I'm not looking for a dog to be our sole protection, but an added layer of security.


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## jesirose

If $2000 is too much to spend on training the dog you already have, you can't afford a good protection dog, or the expenses they incur. Home insurance goes up, there's vet bills, and yes good food is expensive.


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## NamasteMama

I did not say I could not afford it, only that I hesitate spending that much money on a dog that eats chickens and more energy that I can provide an out let for. It's not that he's a bad dog, our family dynamics just do not match his needs. We feed him Taste of the Wild grain free as well a some raw food, he gets the best vet care as well. He was an $1800 dollar dog to begin with, and I am not sure throwing money at the situation would improve it.


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## Whisperwindkat

Like I mentioned before we had ridgebacks and while they have a good amount of energy they expend it themselves and when inside were calm and quiet. I also would recommend a pack of them to work together. They are a stubborn breed, but if you have had mastiffs you are familiar with that. They are also counter surfers, but then so are my mastiffs. All my neighbors have either been broken into or have had attempted break ins in the past year. We have never had a problem since we have had the pack. If you like the temperament of your mastiffs I think you would be happy with ridgebacks. Ours had very little training, just the basics including focus and recall. Like the mastiff breeds it seems almost second nature. Have you though about maybe a smaller molosser breed instead of the OEM? In your situation I might be looking for one of the harder breeds. If I were dealing with what you have the potential to deal with I would be looking for possibly Filas or Cane Corsos. Although I hear that Filas are hard to come by unless you know somebody who will recommend you to a breeder. Anyway just some thoughts. Blessings, Kat


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## Rock

NamasteMama said:


> We have a German Shepherd right now, 8 month old, i really made a mistake getting hime, his way to high energy drive for our family dynamics, eats chickens, chases cats, and we may consider rehoming him to a neighbor who who trains K9 police dogs. We may try fixing him and seeing if that helps a bit. I just know I made a bad choice for our family and our needs and its not fair to him.
> 
> In the mean time we need a good protective dog. We are moving 70 mile from the boarder and I need to get a dog, preferably a couple years old who is good with the kids and kitties, but has natural protection instincts with out wanting to eat every one that comes on our property. There are known drug corridors in the areas and while the illegals looking for work dont pose much danger the drug traffickers are scary!
> 
> Any suggestions? We have been an English Mastiff Family in the past and consider this our favorite breed. I got a shepherd because we wanted to try a smaller dog (haha) I am of the personal opinion that they take way to much training to make a good dog. I like how my mastiffs knew good people from bad right off the bat and didn't take a ton of training to get them to do what you wanted.


Well most of those thing you are having a problem with the GSD, are the natural instincts that are used to build a good K-9. 
Any untrained dog you get is a prospect, if you want to spend the money (think 5 figures) you can get a fully trained dog. You will have to go and spend at least 2 weeks with the trainer at the facility, (at your expense of course) so they can teach you how to handle this animal!


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## Maura

At one time my exhusband had a friend who trained and showed dogs. His specialty was personal protection and he had a fleet of guard dogs who guarded buildings at night. His preference was for Bouviers. They have a lot of sense concerning intruders. They are not overly cautious like some breeds. Good family dogs. Of course, they will need training, but are not like GSD's who I would expect to give a great deal of training to.

We had one of his Bouviers and while the dog was slower to learn than a GSD would be, was very trainable, stable minded, and trustworthy.


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## NamasteMama

Whisperwindkat said:


> Like I mentioned before we had ridgebacks and while they have a good amount of energy they expend it themselves and when inside were calm and quiet. I also would recommend a pack of them to work together. They are a stubborn breed, but if you have had mastiffs you are familiar with that. They are also counter surfers, but then so are my mastiffs. All my neighbors have either been broken into or have had attempted break ins in the past year. We have never had a problem since we have had the pack. If you like the temperament of your mastiffs I think you would be happy with ridgebacks. Ours had very little training, just the basics including focus and recall. Like the mastiff breeds it seems almost second nature. Have you though about maybe a smaller molosser breed instead of the OEM? In your situation I might be looking for one of the harder breeds. If I were dealing with what you have the potential to deal with I would be looking for possibly Filas or Cane Corsos. Although I hear that Filas are hard to come by unless you know somebody who will recommend you to a breeder. Anyway just some thoughts. Blessings, Kat


 I have looked at Filas, but I don't like that they are indiscriminately aggressive. What if my sonand his teen age friends are wrestling around and the dog thinks he's in trouble? I know a reputable breeder I have spoken with several times over the years, but I just hesitate with this breed. I don't know much about the Cane Corsos, I will look them up.

WhisperWind- I'm researching the Rhodisains right now.

Rock we have a renounded training center about 30 miles from me and i am going to take our dog to be evaluated by them next week after reading the responses here. It doesn't cost much for an evaluation and its worth a shot right?

I haven't determined if we will rehome our dog or not and will have a better idea once we talk to the trainers. Regardless of if he stays with us we will still need a second possibly third dog for the property and I do not want to make the mistake of the wrong breed again.


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## Rock

Good luck with the eval, I think having a pro look at your dog and situation is your best move _(along with owning and knowing how to use fire arms)_


PS all neutering him does is make him sterile.


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## motdaugrnds

I use to raise GSDs and "some" of them do have a lot of energy, though some do not. I suspect you got one that did and providing an outlet for all that energy is what is concerning you. I respect your being able to put the needs of that dog on equal level with your own needs. Many dog owners do not do that very well.

I'm sold (to no one's surprise who has been following my thread) on the Karakachan breed! Have only had my pup about 3 months (Picked her up at 8 weeks of age.) but I have already learned she is calm, quiet, smart, brave & loyal "without" a prey/herding drive. This breed is one of the LGDs yet teaching her what is expected of her has not been that difficult for this old lady.....


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## frogmammy

At 8 months, it is still a puppy and exploring what it can do. Neutering won't make him the dog you want, training could.

If you like Mastiffs, get a Mastiff for the job!

Mon


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## TedH71

Neutering will make him less interested in females AND be somewhat less interested in running around but he's 8 months old. He's not going to calm down for quite a while. I would say maybe 1 more year. Also it's quite easy to get a dog to quit eating chickens. Keep the dog on a very long leash. Let him see chickens..if he charges them, pull him to you while hollering, "NO! NO! NO! NO!" may have to take repetitive training. It's basically keeping an eye on the pup...you can also offer the pup something more interesting than a chicken after you stop yelling and praise the pup for taking the reward...for me, it would be a chew toy/rope. Not THAT hard..the hard part is being aware of when he's thinking of eating chicken and making sure he's not going to grab one. At 8 months old, he's teething as well..he will be chewing a lot for the next...say....4 to 6 months. Give him appropriate chewing materials and praise him when he does.


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## JPiantedosi

first of all I feel like you have very unrealistic expectations for an 8mo pup. Any dog at 8mo is going to be a handful. If it were me, I would spend the $2k on training rather than buying another dog. Ideally for the $$ you spend not only should you get back a guard type dog, you should also get back a dog that has a very strong level of obedience.

You keep mentioning a mastiff, but of the several I have been around they are not this perfect mind/soul reading giants, but are typical of any bully breed with a streak of lethargy thrown into the mix, my father in laws has indiscriminately been aggressive to the evil mail man, the bad guy who brought sand for his round pen and slept in an open crate when someone kicked in the door of my inlaws house while they slept. 

Matter of fact one good roll in the mud by my sarplaninac and she hasn't gotten out of the truck here at my house in over a year, and when I gave my father in law a iltter mate to my Sarp, his mastiff wont even go outside without an escort.

given your situation, and the lack of effort you are willing to put into exercise and training I would say you ought to get a lab and a shotgun and cut your losses.

Jim


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## d'vash

What's $2,000 when you're planning to purchase a protection dog from good working lines that will also most likely cost $2,000 plus another $2,000 for training? You'll be in the same boat, only now with two untrained mouths to feed that chasing your chickens. 

$4,000 (purchase and training) is cheaper than $6,000 for the purchase price of your current dog, the new dog and his training.


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## NamasteMama

Ok it has nothing to do with lack of effort. This dog needs to be working all day to be happy. 5 miles a day for walking, playing training, didn't cure eating my chicken either. There was certainly no lack of working with him. He was not untrained he was high energy and high prey drive. At the advice of the trainer we got him a new home and he is currently doing search and rescue training and excelling at it. We are looking into either Fila or Boerboel for protection.


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## NamasteMama

JPian apparently you have no experience with drug runners and illegals. A lab would be dead within 30 seconds and a shotgun is no match for automatic and semi auto weapons. The dogs are for home invasion protection. A couple years back illegals tied a couple to their beds and ransacked their house. These guys had a machete. A couple good guard dogs would have really helped in that situation .


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## NamasteMama

Golden it's not the money is putting more money into a dog that already has different needs than our family can provide


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## K-9

I don't think you will find a dog that knows one strangers intent from another. The dog that is good with your kids and won't bother the livestock is fixable by training and socialization generally. With that said, it is remarkable how the border has deteriorated in the past few years. If you haven't you need to look at a multi-layered perimeter protection system, starting with electronic sensors at the outer edge of your defensible space, followed by video cameras a little closer to home, then a good fence, your dogs (at least 2), and finally determined folks with firearms at the core area. In a lot of ways, your security plan on the SW border now needs to be about what it would be in Afghanistan. I hadn't been down there for several years and then was down there last year and the ranch hands look more like infantrymen than cowboys now days, they were moving in groups of 4 or 5 with rifles and a lot of ammo while doing their daily tasks, and they rotated with one providing over watch while the others worked, and this was a working ranch not some rich person's compound. The rancher said every building on his ranch had been broken into, several vehicles had been stolen, several hands assaulted and that at no time was the core area left without multiple people there. He could barely ranch for just trying to defend his property and workers. It is a mess down there and I think it is only going to get worse with the current lack of resolve to address the problem.


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## Andrei

jesirose said:


> If $2000 is too much to spend on training the dog you already have, you can't afford a good protection dog, or the expenses they incur. Home insurance goes up, there's vet bills, and yes good food is expensive.


I hope you are joking.
$2000 is a rip off.
I bread GS for ..... 20 yrs and some have worked for local PD.
I did some training too but the main training needed is for the human owner and not the dog.
Protection is in the instinct of the dog.
For a low maintenance guard dog I prefer a female.
They are more loyal and more protective then the males.
Yes, the males are bigger and look more intimidating but when it comes to real action I will put my bet on a female.
Australian healers are great homesteading dogs and very intelligent. 
At this time I have a jet black Great Dane with cropped ears that does not need to do too much to get respect.
He is a rescued dog and acts like a kid.


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## Breezy833

get a mastiff if that is the breed that you enjoy the most.

I personally like the rottweiler for home protection and family dog, and i've seen videos that theyre good workers too. We don't have live stock but her job is to play with and protect the family and her brother ( a jack russel)


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## NamasteMama

Breezy we are looking in to either a brazilian mastiff or a south african mastiff.


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## CageFreeFamily

Part of Schutzhund training is the dog's ability to know the difference between the one with bad intent and the one's with no intention. If a dog could not tell the difference between the bad guys and the good they would all be dangerous. 

I love the EM as an all around deterrent for intruders, and know many people who's EMs drove off or detained an intruder, but in your situation, I would personally be looking for a pair of trained protection dogs. That's a fairly extreme threat that your describing, and with kids I'm not sure I would feel comfortable with any less. 
If you're really not into the training aspect, and are still worried about chicken eating and exercise, perhaps you could look into the Kangal or Boz Shepherds, but these are going to run you $1500-$2200 a piece, and while they will protect your land and your livestock and family, they are not the same as a trained protection dog. 

You mentioned semi-automatic and automatic weapons. Even a pair of highly trained protection dogs cannot stop bullets. If all you are hoping for is that the presence of a threatening dog will be deterrent enough to keep intruders away, then you might actually do well with any number of breeds, with the harder LGD breeds (like the Boz, Kangal, etc) being the best to have out with your livestock.

I'm hoping my tone doesn't come off as harsh and judgmental as some of these other comments. I don't know why this topic always results in such egotistical shaming of the OP.:catfight: Good luck with your situation, and always consider talking to reputable breeders of those breeds you are interested in. Breed/Type fanatics aren't *always* the best source of truth.


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## NamasteMama

Thank you Aimee, I appreciate an honest and straight forward opinion. Yes the threats at the boarder are extreme. There was a family a few hundred miles away from this area, but close to the boarder 4 years ago who child was kidnapped, held for ransom and then left dead on the doorstep. You dont hear about it on the new because they want you to think theres not a problem, but there is a problem and it grows each day.

Honestly we are rethinking our choice to live there, but if we dont stand our ground we will loose it.

I will say at least I am honest that I made a choice that wasnt right for our family, I made sure my dog was going to an amazing home where he will have an amazing job saving lives. Which is more than some people who would shot a dog for eating chickens, and I have read that suggestion many times by people on this forum. Look people dogs are great, yes they are part of the family, but when your family has specific needs and so does your dog, its best to make sure that everyone is getting what they need, because in the end the safety of my family is vastly more important than keeping a dog who is unhappy and making me unhappy by eating my chickens. Although I will say I got plenty of exercise! No one can make me feel shamed. I have done nothing wrong. MY dog was well taken care of feed extremely good(and expensive) food, up to dat eon shots, tons of toys, well socialized, basic training, house trained. I just realized that he had more energy than what we could provide and outlet for and that spending thousands of dollars on shutzhund training wasn't going to fix that problem.


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## TJN66

I am happy to hear that you rehomed the GS into a great home instead of either killing him or dropping him off at a shelter. I have been owned by 2 GS so far in my life. At 8 months I always thought .. what the blazes what I thinking lol! High energy and high prey drive. We solved that thru swimming, long walks combined with lots and lots of focus work. 
Its a good day when Ruso (our GS) comes in from outside and plops on the front porch and sleeps all night long. That is from swimming, playing and doing exercises in the yard where he has to use his brain to figure out puzzles. By the way we have a yard that is 50 x 90 feet with the house, pool, garage and carport on it so that is not a lot of room.
Im not too keen on mastiffs as we have been attacked by them on walks. But that is just my personal preference. GS sure are fun though..those wacky ears are something until they finally decide to stand up lol! We actually thought of calling Ruso, Radar instead just for the ear comedy. 
I hope you find the dog for your needs. Good luck and we need pics when you find your new family member.


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## Andrei

K-9 said:


> I don't think you will find a dog that knows one strangers intent from another.


I disagree.
I have been breading black GS for 20 yrs and some of them have worked in the local PD.
An animal can read a human mind 2 ways.
One way is smelling the pheromones we produce in certain emotional periods.
The second is telepathy.
PS. This is to replace the admin erased message.


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## K-9

Cagefree and Andrei, I think my comment was misunderstood, a dog certainly cues off of a persons behavior and yes pheromones do play a role in K9 behavior. But a dog is doing just that, they are reacting to cues, it is not some genetic code they have to tell if person one is just walking down the trail to find a job and person 2 is walking down the trail to look for someone to assault. For example, the first time the UPS man delivered a package to the house, my dog perceived him as a threat because he was moving towards me in a rapid and deliberate manner, now obviously the UPS man was no threat to me but they are on a very tight schedule and don't have time to dawdle, my dog would have engaged him had I not told her not too. The second time he came she still wasn't sure about him but now she has had multiple experiences with him and knows he is no threat and pays him no more attention than any other frequent visitor. 

The pheromones manifest themselves in a very obvious manner when tracking, you can have a training track where the track layer runs along the track and the dog really doesn't react any differently than had they walked, now in a real world track where that person has just committed a crime or is lost and scared the pheromones kick in and you get the "fear/adrenaline" scent and the dog ramps up their tracking several notches, the same occurs if the smell of blood is present and usually the closer they get to the person they are tracking the more intense they get. In schutzen the dogs react to specific clues from the "helper" and largely respond to equipment, many dogs that have schutzen titles will not engage if the sleeve is not present, I know this is hard to believe but I have seen it several times when first introducing them to a hidden sleeve.

My whole point is dogs react to training, circumstance, and prior experience they don't have supernatural abilities. Just as some people are more alert and aware of their surroundings the same applies to dogs thus some make better protection dogs than others and some just don't have what it takes to be a protection dog. Many people think that all this is instinctual in a dog and that they do not have to train their dog to do what they expect of it which obviously is not the case. Because since these dogs are reacting to various cues, the owner/handler must train them to respond instantly to their command or a tragedy can happen because as pointed out in my example above cues can be presented that don't actually reflect the person's intent, just as a person may be perfectly calm until the instant of the attack thus the dog should once again react instantly. The bottom line is dogs can do some incredible things but it takes a lot of time, energy and work to channel and enhance the dogs natural ability to get it to where you want it to be but once you are there, dogs are an incredible tool and add significantly to your safety.


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## NamasteMama

You've never owned a mastiff then. My past English Mastiff was a sweetie. I was like having a furry log laying around our house. Never found a person hE didn't like. Once I was outside talking to a neighbor when this neighbor moved closer to me and asked to pet my dog. My dog who had already put himself between us turned into a lunging barking maniac. A few days later found out the guy was a convicted rapist and a pedophile. My dog never did that again.

Yes we are looking at mastiffs again.


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## Andrei

There is much more to the natural abilities of a dog them many people think.
One can train a lame dog forever with no results.
And one can have a dog that will understand what you need with very little or no formal training at all.
But then some make a living training.
When I did training I found out that I had to work more on the owner then on the dogs.
Train the human to communicate with their dog.


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## NamasteMama

I agree it's all about the human. A good dog is worthless in the wrong hands. It's one of the reasons I rehomed our dog. We were not doing justice to his abilities.


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## JasoninMN

Most often the "protective behaviors" that people perceive as the dog protecting them are really based on fear. If you really want a dog that will engage in a fight with a human you need to have it tested and worked. Believing breed alone and instinct is going to save you is only fueling a false sense of security.


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## NamasteMama

Training is a lot, but there breeds such as the Fila that will protect its family from intruders. The problem is that the Fila sees anyone who doesn't live in the home as an intruder. I like the mastiff because they know to protect and with some good training they are great dogs! What I didn't like about the German shepherd is that you had to tell the dog what to do, otherwise he didn't know.


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## Andrei

I do not want a dog that want to attack a human.
I had one of her and it was a continuous stressful situation. 
She was ready to take a chunk of meat from anyone trespassing. 
And she was the most intelligent dog I ever had but ........ she attacked kids chasing my daughter, she attacked a boy jumping over our blanket at the park, she attacked friends that got close to our tent, she attacked dogs that got close to us. She had no respect for fences since she learned how to climb ladders and climb in the trees and from there on the roof of the house.
Opposite I had a jet black male that all he had to do is bark 2 times and people will clear out. He was 120lbs. All kids could pet him at the park but if a parent would come close he will show fangs and parents would panic. He enjoyed intimidating adults. But, I do not think he would ever bite someone for real.


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## NamasteMama

Nor do I. One of the reasons we have ruled out a Fila. I want to be able to take my dog camping and not worry about him trying to eat someone passing by. I thinki ts funny howw your male like to tease adults, LOL!


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## Andrei

He learned that kids are to be trusted around and even a pleasure for him and on the other side he does not want unknown adults around him. And many times I feel the same.


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## Rock

NamasteMama said:


> Nor do I. One of the reasons we have ruled out a Fila. I want to be able to take my dog camping and not worry about him trying to eat someone passing by. I thinki ts funny howw your male like to tease adults, LOL!


 My friends just had a litter of 12, not sure if anything is available, outstanding stock.
https://www.facebook.com/laura.gravislautner?fref=ts


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## NamasteMama

What gorgeous puppies, its too bad they are on the other side of the country from me! Its way to hot to ship puppies right now.


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## GrannyCarol

You might want to consider a Bull Mastiff. From what I hear they are highly intelligent and loyal. I suspect they need more exercise than an English Mastiff, but they are smaller and more athletic too. From what I've heard they tend to have good judgment. 

If you can just avoid moving near the border, I'd really consider that option, it sounds like a place you might just not want to live near! I wish you a lot of luck in that situation, I don't think I'd be up for it personally.


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## NamasteMama

Yeah, it would be nice if the BP would actually protect our borders so that it would be safer to live within 75 mile of the boarder


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## GrannyCarol

From what I read, its a war zone.  And we won't admit that we are at war with the Mexican drug lords... if we are. More like there is some battle going on against the citizens of our country and they are not being protected as they ought. 

If you don't have a serious investment in moving there, I'd sure look for a safer place to live.


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## NamasteMama

One of the reasons we are looking for a guard dog is that neighbors had illegals break In tie them to the bed and steal their car. Another guy found 15 Chinese immigrants in their barn. And a rancher was killed by drug lords. But tell me this how far away from the boarder to we move to b safe!"? When are we going to say enough Is enough?


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## GrannyCarol

I don't know... I respect your bravery. Obviously no place is entirely safe and, just as obviously the US government isn't really protecting its borders to the south. The more I hear, the more I like the idea of a Rottie or two.


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## sandsuncritters

NamasteMama, I admire your stand to keep what's yours. I share the same concerns for your safety as others have posted. 

Have you considered an Anatolian Shepherd? There's a young female in the Austin shelter if you're interested in that breed.

http://www.petharbor.com/pet.asp?uaid=ASTN.A660055

We adored ours. Candy was family protective but not aggressive. She kept the animals where they belonged and would alert us if any little thing was out of place LOL. Strangers were held at bay till we gave permission for them to enter, and then she kept a watchful eye on them till they left. I have many stories to tell about her, but I will just tell you one.

We heard her barking that turned to growls and howls at 2:30am one night. The other dogs were barking fiercely and it sounded like all the hounds of hell were loosed. Of a sudden there was a high human scream along with Candy's growling that set my neck hairs straight up! Turned out a transient had come up from the river onto our property and figured it would be safe to make camp in the woods. He didn't quite make it far enough up the nearest tree before Candy was on him. The other dogs supported her, but she was the one who treed him (in his own words). After he was removed from the property by LE, she checked her perimeters and her charges, and stayed on alert for several days after. 

If I was going where you're planning to live, I would absolutely include Anatolians, along with Bullmastiffs and/or Ridgebacks. Because I don't want the miscreants to escape just to return another day with a better plan. I want them caught, tattered, and hauled off to the pokey to tell the others not to come near my property! Or dead! Either way it's a deterrent, as I see it anyway.

You and your family are very brave and deserve all the support you can get. My family will keep yours in prayer for strength and safety.

Post pics of your security team 

In His Love
Mich


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## Andrei

GrannyCarol said:


> And we won't admit that we are at war with the Mexican drug lords...
> More like there is some battle going on against the citizens of our country and they are not being protected as they ought.


We do not admit that we are at war with American drug dealer and manufacturers.
We do not admit that young Americans are being used as target practice.
We do not admit that we get poisoned by American food corporations. 
.
.
But a good dog or a pair are worth more then all the guns in the world in most situations.


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## NamasteMama

Their solution is to post warning signs. Well we told you it was a dangerous area, so poo on you for living there. Stupid! They are building a new boarder patrol station? You think they would build it on the land they own 1/2 mile form the boarder? NO! they buy new land 15 miles form the boarder!

We a have found a pair of Mastiffs we are looking at adopting and we are looking at geting a Fila puppy.


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## beccachow

I just wanted to pop in about dogs sensing bad people and bad intentions.

One of my chows bit a guy I was dating. Out of the blue, snarled and launched himself at him, tagging him in the arm. I went through the thoughts of having him destroyed for the horrible chow clichÃ© action he had performed, but held off.

About a week later, the guy came back with a duffle bag that he claimed had a change of clothes in it. The next day I noticed that my prize collection of first edition Peanuts comic books was gone. I had just shown them to him a few days prior.

I have learned to listen to my dogs, especially calm cool collected ones that zap out for no perceived reason.

Oddly, my chow I have now had a strange reaction to a child who had some learning disabilities. Didn't' snap or bite, just sniffed her and growled.


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## arnie

here I go again - but i'll recommend a southern blackmouth cur . the cur dogs have been bred for intelligence and for working on farms .never in the AKC or Puppy mills ; I have MT.curs now they know whos naughty and nice keep ALL varmits away from the homestead don't kill chickens or harass livestock protect any thing they perceive as ours . will undouptitly protect you with there lives as they are fearless and wont bite the meter reader or small children .I recommend the southern blackmouth cur as they are bigger and rougher than the Mt. curs ( Old yellar was a cur) .though an adult dog may be hard to find its best to get a pup and have it grow up with your family > There is no more faithful and honest,and smart dog out there fearless and obedient . we had a sheapard as a family dog when we were growing up (i'm old now) she was a member of the family knew all the kids by name unfailing in her job of protecting the home but dogs of that caliber are rare . if you are going to be in a dangerious area a bull dog or Doberman may be used just as a person and home protector but a vichious dog is unsafe around children or mailmen and has to be kept under direct control .


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## arnie

I suppose life and earning a living often forces us to live in a place that is un safe I lived in Chicago for many years with the excuse of earning a living 
. but why the HECK do you want to move your family into a hell hole like that . wish the best of luck to you but keep the guns loaded n ready.


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## NamasteMama

The sad part is that the area is a simply stunning part of the state, perfect for a vineyard. Soil tests showed the soil to be better than that in France to grow grapes. Why should I have to abandon my property and my dream?


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## K-9

You do not have to abandon your property and your dreams, but you have to make yourself a hard target that is not worth the effort. If you are willing to do that you can live in hostile situations but doing so may change things so much that it alters the dream. Dogs will only be one layer in your security you must have many other layers as well. I don't want to sound negative but I think the border situation is going to get worse before it gets better, it doesn't seem to bother those in power that Americans are dying on a shockingly regular basis along the southwest border at the hands of those who are in this Country illegally. There is not a simple fix to the issue but ignoring it certainly isn't the solution and I don't think immigration reform is either because I doubt many of these murders are committed by people coming here to work, I suspect most are committed by people who come here to "live off the fat of the land" by preying on others.


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## CAjerseychick

NamasteMama said:


> Their solution is to post warning signs. Well we told you it was a dangerous area, so poo on you for living there. Stupid! They are building a new boarder patrol station? You think they would build it on the land they own 1/2 mile form the boarder? NO! they buy new land 15 miles form the boarder!
> 
> We a have found a pair of Mastiffs we are looking at adopting and we are looking at geting a Fila puppy.


Great, was wondering how things turned out and was going to suggest a Fila (have been perusing Mastiff Forums, and they sounded like a good fit for you)-- although , I have a giant schnauzer, and that human aggression is really no fun, it can be a giant liability.....Also my girl is barky and alert, but she in no way would do the damage that a good pitt bull(our first dog) or a even a Ban dog could inflict....We just got a GP/ anatolian pup for our land and will see how that works out....


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## CAjerseychick

One thing I wanted to add, was, a true breed pitt is mostly dog aggressive not people aggressive, where we used to live, people mis bred them and you got a lotta of human aggressive dogs, most notabley was a pair of presa canario- mastiff crosses that killed a lady.....
Depending on your land, maybe consider a Caucasian Ovcharka, from what I have been seeing (my first love is dog forums) they are a step above the average LGD in that they are were bred for aggression against people as well. In fact the breed has been co-opted by the Soviet military to now be a property guard (think prison camps, the Berlin wall) which sounds like what you are looking for-- and they bond closely with their people as well.....Although you might have to clip them down in the summer, d/t their heavy coats....


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## MysticFire

I think getting a tougher breed as a puppy is the best idea. If the breeder is reputable and understands that you have children, you will get the right puppy placed in your home. 
I have experience with Boerboels, Cane Corsos, Bullmastiffs, Mastiffs & of course my breed Rottweilers. All of these breeds can be great guard dogs in their own way. If I had to choose for your situation I would have gone a small pack of a few dogs as well. I live with 4 Rottweilers loose in my house all of the time. I also rescue Rottweilers so I always have a few extras  
I of course am partial to Rottwielers as they can be used for lots of things on a ranch or farm. I love Bullmastiffs and I have met a few Corsos that are great. Boerboels can be tough as nails, but I have met one who has earned her CGC, Carting titles as well as a Herding Instinct Test! The one thing all of these breeds have in common is their need to be lazy when they are not working!!! That is my perfect dog! I love the drive and admire the working ability of some herding breeds, but I like some time off from working dogs! 
Good luck with the mastiffs and the Fila puppy!! Let me know if you ever want to add a rottie to the pack 

Leslie K


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## Hapua1975

Have you considered getting a Neapolitan Mastiff. If you get one from working lines, they are a little less on the wrinkle and more athletic. We have a male, and he is great with the kids and other animals. He is very intelligent and learned commands quickly at a young age. As far as his protective instincts go, they are second to none. He will patrol the yard and only allow those who he knows enter it. If someone pulls in the driveway that he isn't familiar with, they are not getting out of their vehicle until I tell him that everything is ok. He will then go to the front door and ensure that they don't go in the house without me letting him know that it is ok for them to go in as well.


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## hiddensprings

Sometimes specific dogs, not the breed, are not a good match for a family. It happens. It just like us...some people we like and get along well with and others we'd rather not have to deal with. Doesn't make those folks bad, it just means they aren't for us. I've had border collies for years on my place. Not for protection but for companionship and herding. The last female pup I got lasted a year and a half on my farm before I called a neighbor and said "if you want her, come get her or I'm hauling her to the pound." I've never had a border collie I couldn't train and this one was horrible. So, I understand what you are saying about this specific dog not being a match for your family. I probably would have given up this border collie by 8 months too if I had much sense. It was apparent she wasn't going to work for me by then but I kept thinking it was me. (apparently it was since my neighbor still has her and she loves him :grump
I don't really have a recommendation for you. I keep Anatolian shepherds on my place but really just to protect the livestock from coyotes and stray dogs. I will say though that folks think twice about getting out of their cars because of their large size and barking. I'm ok with that though


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## motdaugrnds

Well, your situation is not one I would feel safe in no matter how many (or what breed) of dogs I had. There are just too many variables to contend with where a dog is less than helpful.

I agree with K-9 that Americans are not securing the borders as they should; and I have my doubts they ever will. I highly suspect there are Americans who are greedy enough to help keep that boundary open. Sad to say we are not a country in which all its people value the same high principles. (I doubt any country is simply due to the nature of humans.)

I suspect it would take a great deal of money and ingenuity to fortify your place in a way that would keep off all intruders.


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## CAjerseychick

One thing not many Americans are aware of, is for years when the Border was more porous, Mexicans would migrate seasonally and go home with their money and maintain their families down in Mexico. A more casual and convivial relationship that benefitted those who need casual laborers.
Closing borders made the "Coyotes"(people smugglers) rich and dangerous. Now the people who make it here, are stuck, so stuck up here means they have to live here year around, they need social services and schools for their kids and housing (which think about it they cannot afford a whole lot working those jobs most of us would rather not do-- and dont)..... They cannot casually come and go anymore and the only ones who can make it happen are criminals, who run things like drugs,and now that it is lucrative-- human beings. 
That said, I think a good dog to patrol your property would be the Anatolian- they are extremely calm yet fierce and good with kids if raised them.


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## Mongo

I haven't read all the responses here, so my apologies if this has been posted. The Catahoula Leopard Cur may be a good option for you. They are natural herders and very intelligent. I will likely never own any other type of dog myself, though due to our current situation we are without a four legged friend. Anyway, they do take some training and firm discipline, but once they learn something it sticks. Ours was extremely protective but she would look to me before reacting to anyone. If I walked up in an easy and friendly manner she would run up tail a waggin. But if I was a bit stand offish she could sense it and would stand by my side at full alert. If I wasn't home, woe unto them that crossed that fence line. 
They can also be a bit high energy while pups. But later they settle down a bit. Mine would join me for a run and when I was done she was usually ready to lay down also.


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## TedH71

Mongo is correct. I have catahoulas....used to have up to 5 at one time. Right now, I just have one. This is Frankie as a pup then him at 1 year old. I will be getting new pictures of him working a hog better than the current picture I have now.


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## CAjerseychick

TedH71 said:


> Mongo is correct. I have catahoulas....used to have up to 5 at one time. Right now, I just have one. This is Frankie as a pup then him at 1 year old. I will be getting new pictures of him working a hog better than the current picture I have now.


Nice looking dog.


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## siberian

This has been an interesting read, with many good points. Personally i be live that there is a big difference between guard dogs and guardian dogs.. having run sled dogs, competed at shutzhund, and now living with mastiffs, i believe there is a huge difference. Guard dogs are trained, nd if trained properly, they are amazing. Never the less, guardian dogs are amazing. Tibetan mastiffs are only one of many, but they are the ones that we are focusing on. Never, have i been more comfortable 2hile being away from the family.


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