# Composting Toilets?



## Tyler520

Anyone have any experience with composting toilets?

Can someone describe the bsic installation, operation and maintenance of a composting toilet?

What about Combustion/Incineration toilets?

Thanks,
Ty


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## ErinP

I don't know about commercial ones. 
We've been using a basic sawdust toilet since last December and (I realize this sounds odd to say) we are really happy with it. 

No stink, no fuss, and _very_ cheap.

The first week or so there is a _real_ mental hurdle to get over. But after that, it's no big deal. 
Really.


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## Ross

We're about to try a Sumar excel toilet. We'll see how well it fits in.


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## Nevada

We lived without a septic for about 4 years. I looked into composting toilets but didn't see what I liked. The "seat on a bucket" didn't seem to be quite enough, and some of the automated ones cost more than a septic system. I also learned that a lot of county health departments aren't crazy about composting toilets.

What we settled on was a portable RV toilet. To be precise, we got the Thetford XG.










It's comfortable and pleasant to use. It has a 5.5 gallon holding tank, where you put RV sanitary chemical. A tank lasts 2 people about a week. We had 3 tanks, so we only had to take them into town about once every three weeks to empty them at the free RV dump at a gas station.

You can get the Thetford XG at Walmart for $70, and most sporting goods outlets have them in the $100 to $120 range.


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## BooRadley

When I finally get our new home built, we'll be using a loveable loo (sawdust toilet, see ErinP's post) for a few months. I built one per free online instructions, and we tried it out for a week. Works well, and doesn't stink up the room. The loveable loo is described as a 'collection device for a composting toilet system'. INstallation is build the box, paint it, screw on toilet seat, put in a bucket, put saw dust in the bottom. Use is open lid, make a deposit, toss toilet paper into loo also, cover with an adequate amount of raw sawdust, close lid. Maintenance is take out bucket when sawdust reaches the level where you decide it's time for a new bucket. Take out bucket, put lid on it, put in a fresh clean bucket. Dump used bucket in a pre-made compost pile. Clean bucket with water, toilet brush, an the cleaner of your choice. I usually clean with white vinegar, and when bucket is clean and empty of water, I spray the inside with vinegar and allow it to dry in the sun. That kills most of the odor in the bucket for me. One bucket lasts two people a few days, as long as they don't use rolls and rolls of toilet paper. A bucket, once full, can have the lid put back on it, and be sat in the corner for a few days, until you decide it is time to take it out. It won't stink up the room, and I don't believe it is unsanitary. 

When researching alternative commercial toilets online, I saw that incinerating toilets, both propane and electric, cost the same as a newer used car. Composting models are cheaper, but still very expensive. I have read good things about SunMar. Here is something: http://www.sun-mar.com/test_muni.html 

Personally, the idea of emptying the receptacles on a commercially produced composting toilet bothers me a heck of a lot more than the idea of a bucket ever did. And now that I know what the bucket is all about, I will take that any day of the week. Unless I decide to rent out spare rooms. Then I will have to install a flush toilet, or a fancy composting toilet. Stupid gooberment. 

For what it's worth, I've never seen a negative review of a properly used sawdust toilet (loveable loo is probably the most popular type), but have seen lots of negative reviews of commercially produced composting toilets that had supposedly been used correctly. 

Good luck to you.


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## fishhead

We had incinerating toilets at work. You could smell them for a 100 yards whenever they were used.


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## big rockpile

Here is what we have at our Cabin


http://www.envirolet.com/enwatsel.html

big rockpile


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## MushCreek

I'm dealing with this as we speak. I bought a Coleman chemical toilet which works poorly. So bad, in fact, that I built a sawdust toilet. It works fine, but all I could get locally was pine shavings, which don't seem to control odor that well. Haven't found a supply of sawdust yet. In a few weeks, I'll have a septic system, which will eliminate (pun intended) the whole problem.


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## big rockpile

My .02 on this we bought the Envirolet Composting Toilet works fine once we started using sawdust instead of Peat Moss but these Toilets put the extra Heat to it so it will compost down.The only reason we bought this is because we was dealing with Government Regulations and Neighborhood Association.

If I didn't have to deal with Regulations I would either go with Outhouse or indoor Sawdust Toilet.

big rockpile


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## boiledfrog

I was out buying a pair of goats the other day. The folks I got them from had a little off grid homestead that impressed the heck out of me. They had an out house with red worms composting their waste. No smell. They claimed it worked fine.


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## gobug

Yesterday I listened to a NPR topic about how many children die each year from diseases related to septic practices - more than an ocean liner full of kids. Bill Gates has donated billions of bucks for research into alternatives to septic systems. Today's world's wide use of septic systems is mostly based on old technology and is reaching capacity (or filling up with dung). As a consequence the problem is huge.

US zoning is in the process of not only looking at, but allowing economic alternatives. I look forward to change.

I have used a "sawdust" bucket at my mtn property now for years. My only difficulty is burying the full bucket. Since the mtn is mostly granite, I am interested in how it does improve the soil. I don't use sawdust, I use the stump grinder debris from the tree I had removed in Denver. It works great, doesn't blow away, and has been easier to acquire than sawdust.

Thanks for raising this topic. I think it is an issue that public opinions are ready to be changed.
Gary


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## City Bound

Nevada said:


> We lived without a septic for about 4 years. I looked into composting toilets but didn't see what I liked. The "seat on a bucket" didn't seem to be quite enough, and some of the automated ones cost more than a septic system. I also learned that a lot of county health departments aren't crazy about composting toilets.
> 
> What we settled on was a portable RV toilet. To be precise, we got the Thetford XG.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It's comfortable and pleasant to use. It has a 5.5 gallon holding tank, where you put RV sanitary chemical. A tank lasts 2 people about a week. We had 3 tanks, so we only had to take them into town about once every three weeks to empty them at the free RV dump at a gas station.
> 
> You can get the Thetford XG at Walmart for $70, and most sporting goods outlets have them in the $100 to $120 range.


Nevada, how do you dispose of the waste with this toilet?


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## ErinP

MushCreek said:


> ...I built a sawdust toilet. It works fine, but all I could get locally was pine shavings, which don't seem to control odor that well. Haven't found a supply of sawdust yet.


I live on the prairie. We don't have sawmills. 
Consequently, we experimented a little to see what would work best for us and frankly, I just go to the local farm supply store and get a big bag of kiln-dried shavings for livestock bedding. 
Works perfectly. 



gobug said:


> I have used a "sawdust" bucket at my mtn property now for years. My only difficulty is burying the full bucket.


Why do you bury your bucket (I realize you don't mean the bucket itself)? Mine goes in a compost bin. Just like the sawdust, so long as you have enough cover material (in this case, straw), it doesn't smell...


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## Qhorseman

Check out Natures Head. They use a system that separates the urine from the feces. They claim it is the liquid that causes the bad smells associated with the other brands composters. They are much less expensive than the Sun-Mars and the Envirolets. I sold My Excel and bought the Natures Head. I like it much better. They run less than a $1000


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## gobug

Thanks Erin
I bury the contents in a pile of scrapings from the construction debris that is now decades old. (not the bucket)

I use a shovel to dig a pit and bury the stuff about 6in +. That complies with CO rules for outdoor camping. I do not (YET) have enough compostables for a real compost pile.

Is burying the stuff in a compost pile used for the garden OK, even if you eat meat?
Gary


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## ErinP

> Is burying the stuff in a compost pile used for the garden OK, even if you eat meat?


You need to get this little book: Humanure Handbook
It explains the science of what is happening. 
And the answer is yes, you can use it for the garden, even if you eat meat. You just want to be sure it's _fully_ composted. But then, I think that should be the rule no matter what your diet! lol


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## PlicketyCat

We've been using a bucket loo for over 2 years now. We have plenty of chainsaw dust from our firewood processing; but we also use old coffee grounds, woodstove ashes, shredded pine needle mulch and wood shaving pet bedding as cover material. We empty the buckets into a regular homemade compost bin about every 3-4 days. So far, it's been working perfectly and we've yet to fill the compost bin.

There's hardly any smell, only a little in the summer, and only if there is urine in the bucket. Only wet poo stinks in our experience. When we move from the tent to the cabin, I'm planning to make a separate urinal from a 12" mixing bowl and a bathroom lavatory drain, that is piped into sturdy handled 2 gallon utility jugs that are more convenient to transport and empty frequently. There are all sorts of urine diverters for composting toilets, but they don't tend to work well for both males and females due to anatomical differences and unless the man of the house sits instead of stands. So, that's why I'm going to double the width of my Loveable Loo design and go with side-by-side seats.

Pit latrine outhouses are common in this area, but we are planning to build a mouldering toilet instead. Basically, this means building an outhouse enclosure on top of our compost bin. That way we can use the outdoor facilities during the summer/day, but can still use our indoor bucket and jug system during winter/night... then just take the bucket and jug out and empty them in our outhouse when they're full. We'll probably have 2-3 chambers (even though it takes a LONG time to fill one with only the 2 of us); just so we can move the outhouse and let the first chamber compost down and rest for a year or two before using it for soil building.


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## greenacresusa

We've been using a system for several years when we visit our retirement land twice a year. We have a small outhouse behind our cabin. Inside we have a 5 gallon bucket that paint/soap deterigent/etc came in. We put pine shavings in the bottom (we use the same ones that we use at home for horse bedding in the stalls), put some disenficant (my bad spelling) in with it. We then built a frame work in the outhouse at a comfortable level (same level as a normal indoor toilet), put down a sheet of plywood with the hole in the middle cut out, attached a normal toilet seat to it. When we use it we use a small scoop to put some more pine shaving over our business. When it's near full we take it out to the woods out back to a hole and cover it. Then wash out the bucket and start all over. 

It really isn't all that hard to do nor that hard to use/maintain. Been doing it for years, but still will be great when we retire, build a house, and have a real indoor toilet!!


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## Otter

Has anyone used pine woodstove pellets like I do for kitty litter? I'm planning on building a "lovable loo" and I was planning on using the pellets, with a little sawdust nearby to "flush" #2.


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## Waiting Falcon

Bedding pellets are better than stove wood pellets for the buckets. But then I made my own mix with peat moss, spahgum moss, vermiculite , rotted sawdust. If I could not get the rotted sawdust I used the finer sawdust from the feed store. Oak breaks down quicker in the compost, pine is slow. My compost piles would sit a year or more before they were use. I added leaves, garden refuse, weeds, to cover the bucket contents. Thistles are the best thing for heating a compost pile, The key is that you make sure the whole plant is covered and it will never reseed. I lived in an area where thistles could really be a problem and I made good use of them. 
I tried one 5 years ago and never went back to conventional means. I added kitchen scraps ie. peelings, spoiled food, etc, but never meat or grease- that would go directly out to the poultry/ dogs.
I totally agree about there being no smell. Even when I was sick I vomited into the bucket without problems.

I do not think the electric composting models are yet to the point where they compost sufficiently. I also believe it is the septic tanks that have polluted the water tables .
I ,too, suggest the Humanure book.


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## PlicketyCat

I've found that larger wood chips, similar to pellets, compost very slowly and don't cover the deposits as odorless as coarse sawdust or fine shredded mulches/garden refuse. I have to add a lot of green (nitrogen) to my compost pile if I have larger brown (carbon) pieces as my "flush" in order to keep the nitro:carbon ratio optimal. Since poo is mostly carbon, you've already got that to work with. Pee is high in nitro, but unless you live in a dry climate it tends to swamp your compost and turn it anaerobic (and stinky!!).

We put everything organic but non-edible (by us or one of the critters) into the compost pile... guts, fish scales, rancid oil, rotten fruit, etc. If we bury the fats and proteins in the very center of the pile where it's hottest and then cover it with hardware cloth/chicken wire, we've never had any problems with attracting pests. Granted, we don't have (m)any rats and racoons up here, but we do have to worry about bears and wolves which aren't deterred by a bit of fencing. We rarely get "volunteers" from our compost either since we make sure to bury anything with seeds in the hottest part and get the pile to thermal kill temps.


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## ErinP

> as my "flush"


I just had to laugh. My kids also call it "flushing" when they cover. 
And now and again one of them will bellow from the bathroom, "Someone didn't flush very well!!" lol


BTW, I just wanted to show what a $50 sawdust toilet can look like:








Because we just have a two bedroom, 1 bath trailer house at the moment, we didn't have any room for another toilet. So we took out the original, put the "box" in its place and re purposed the tank.


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## Pony

OOoh, Erin, I t-totally LURV your design, and I'm gonna swipe it!

We use the stove pellets for our toilet. Cheaper than the bedding pellets in this area, and they work fine for us.

Biggest problem we have is getting folks to use enough cover material. We call it The Human Litter Box, and encourage them to be cat-like: COVER IT!


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## Pony

Waiting Falcon said:


> Bedding pellets are better than stove wood pellets for the buckets. But then I made my own mix with peat moss, spahgum moss, vermiculite , rotted sawdust. If I could not get the rotted sawdust I used the finer sawdust from the feed store. Oak breaks down quicker in the compost, pine is slow. My compost piles would sit a year or more before they were use. I added leaves, garden refuse, weeds, to cover the bucket contents. Thistles are the best thing for heating a compost pile, The key is that you make sure the whole plant is covered and it will never reseed. I lived in an area where thistles could really be a problem and I made good use of them.
> I tried one 5 years ago and never went back to conventional means. I added kitchen scraps ie. peelings, spoiled food, etc, but never meat or grease- that would go directly out to the poultry/ dogs.
> I totally agree about there being no smell. Even when I was sick I vomited into the bucket without problems.
> 
> I do not think the electric composting models are yet to the point where they compost sufficiently. I also believe it is the septic tanks that have polluted the water tables .
> I ,too, suggest the Humanure book.


We also put EVERYTHING compostable in with the humanure. Never had a problem with grease or meat, nor even whole animal carcasses, for that matter. We have 5 compost bins (made of wooden shipping pallets) in various stages of decomposition. The bins are under a large tree, and do run pretty hot.

You are so right about septic systems trashing the water table. IMO, so-called "modern" sewage treatment plants are devastating to waterways. As Joe Jenkins asks, "How much sense does it make to pee in your drinking water?"


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## PakistaniFarmer

interesting idea


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## commonsense

I have this biolet model in my barn:

http://www.biolet.com/store/biolet-10-standard-c-4/biolet-10-standard-waterless-toilet-p-4

I bought it off ebay for much less than the retail price. It really doesn't smell, even on hot summer days, used by people who don't really follow the steps recommended by the manufacturer. So, I'd say it's pretty successful.

I have also done the bucket of shavings. 

ErinP, NICE design!


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## ErinP

As much as I'd love to take full credit for our potty, I have to confess I saw something similar on the humanure website. I just went with the version I'd seen and made it fit our needs.


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## Sandi

I'm just wondering why no one taks about the separett villa toilets. i am looking and this seems the best and well priced by comparison, but there are no reviews out there!!!


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## PlicketyCat

I think in the case of Separett, no reviews is good reviews. Consider that if they didn't work well, someone in US, CA, EU or AU would have complained about them by now. Their low tech models don't have much to go wrong, and their higher tech models probably have some of the similar issues that Biolet and others do (power consumption, chamber size, etc).


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## dirtman

When I built my house in 1995 the local codes would not allow composting toilets or grey water systems. Because we had a slow perk they made us install two 1200 gallon tanks and a 2400 sq ft drainfield which cost us about 3 grand. A mile down the road is a dairy farm milking about 40 cows which crap in a meadow with a stream that runs though it. I couldn't match the output of one cow for one day if I had a month of sundays. Bureaucracy.


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## willowworker

boiledfrog said:


> I was out buying a pair of goats the other day. The folks I got them from had a little off grid homestead that impressed the heck out of me. They had an out house with red worms composting their waste. No smell. They claimed it worked fine.


I have friends that do something similar....50 gal barrell under toilet in house....full of red worms....no smell......no problem.


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## bassmaster17327

I use peat moss as a cover material, it keeps the odor down really well. I am trying to come up with a good way to make a odorless urinal so the lovable loo doesn't fill up as fast


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## Rock

I had a sun marmylife worst $1000 I ever spent
Thing never worked like it should.
* Picture digging out human waste with a spoon, it was horrible!* (Had a perfect 2 hole outhouse and let that woman talk me into a toilet in the house. Should have got rid of her then, I dont let my dogs poop in the house.
Go with the Joe Jenkins sawdust, even if you hate it you'll only be out the price of a case of beer!


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## PlicketyCat

I made a separate pee-potty/urinal out of a stainless steel mixing bowl and plumbed it to a large-volume luggable oil drain pan container under the bench. Since the unit is sealed, there is no urine smell. When it's full, I can pull out the drain hose, screw on the cap and carry it out for disposal with no spills. Works great for us.

You could use the same sort of set up with a urine diverter in your main toilet, but I haven't found the diverters to be as easily useful as a completely separate pee-potty/urinal. While women do sit down, we don't have aim-able equipment so it's easy to miss the diverter. And men don't normally aim their equipment toward the very front of the bowl where the diverter is... at least not without some serious splashback


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## ErinP

Rock said:


> Go with the Joe Jenkins sawdust, even if you hate it you'll only be out the price of a case of beer!


And for whatever reason, you almost never read a negative review about a sawdust toilet...


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## Pony

ErinP said:


> And for whatever reason, you almost never read a negative review about a sawdust toilet...


Biggest problem we've ever had with the Jenkins loo is that people don't use enough cover material. Once they've been encouraged to use as much as it takes to cover up, though, it's all good.

Getting folks to adjust and get past the "ick" factor is another story. Some folks are quite indoctrinated to the "flush your troubles away" POV.


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## superduty5.9

Pony said:


> Biggest problem we've ever had with the Jenkins loo is that people don't use enough cover material. Once they've been encouraged to use as much as it takes to cover up, though, it's all good.
> 
> Getting folks to adjust and get past the "ick" factor is another story. Some folks are quite indoctrinated to the "flush your troubles away" POV.


I know what you mean. People spend $1000 or more when you could build a "sawdust collection system" for under $20. The biggest factor is most of us were raised to flush all bad stuff away or throw it away! WHERE IS AWAY?? 

It's in your or my backyard. Landfills or septic systems that pollute streams and ground water that we drink.

Joe Jenkins is revolutionary. He shows us an easy and simple way to turn a problem or bad thing into something useful or a treasure. If only more poeple did this.


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