# where would you start if you were us?



## cathleenc (Aug 16, 2007)

We just moved to this lovely old farm a mere 9 weeks ago... and feeling rather overwhelmed and extremely enthusiastic. We do have some funds set aside to try and move towards alternative energy - just completely unsure what to do short term and long term.

We've got some unusual opportunities:
1) house, barn, and finished outbuilding (former gift shop w/full utilities) all face south at ideal angles with a large mostly rock bluff directly behind them to the north (solar, passive or active)

2) pond with natural spring feeding it located close to house - pond/spring never freeze nor get warmer than 38 degrees year round (we have the entire pond on our property)(geo-thermal heating opportunity)

3) pond outflow meets up with drainage from another spring and then joined drainage is channeled into a culvert that flows under the road in front of our house - the water force at the point all this water enters the culvert is substantial (hydro micro-generator?)

4) we own much of the bluff (wind power on top)

we would like:
house heating & cooling (would be very nice - august bakes here)
electricity for house, barn, outbuilding
greenhouse (passive solar on the house comes to mind immediately)

Where would you start when it comes to exploring the opportunities? What would you do first? Would you hire an expert to help? What are the chances of getting a college student to plan our systems as a class thesis or project (very near to major university)?

thanks!
Cathy


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## DaleK (Sep 23, 2004)

Probably a home energy audit so you can find out where you stand as you are now and get a baseline to work from. You can do a lot yourself but your state or electric company may provide help with them or you can get a professional to do one. You might find you aren't doing as bad on heat as you think but can cut back on electricity in some areas, then you know where to start focusing. Then the cheap stuff will often give you the quickest payback.


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## Jim-mi (May 15, 2002)

Find a good system designer\installer in your area and have a good long talk about what your desires are and a good guy can\will guide you.
I would not do the college kid idea.
He needs hands on field experience to know what he's talking about.

Before you buy PV pannel number one you need to take stock of all your appliances. Super efficient refridgeration comes before the PV.

Go for it ...........


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## SolarGary (Sep 8, 2005)

Hi,
Sounds like you have already done quite a bit of reading about alternative energy sources -- good!

As a way to get started, I'd have a look at the "Half Plan" that we used. Its not so much the the projects we ended up doing will be best for you, but the process thats outlined will help you decide which projects to tackle and in what order. 
http://www.builditsolar.com/References/Half/Half.htm
The planning part:
http://www.builditsolar.com/References/Half/Planning.htm

Its pretty simple: you make a list of all potential projects, evaluate each one for cost and savings (this takes a bit of time -- but is very important), then lay out a sequence for doing the projects in an order that will save you the most the soonest, but not have early projects interfere with later projects.

As a guess, I think you migh find:
- If you have grid power, then you can probably put off the solar PV until later. Concentrate instead on conserving electricity (lights, appliances, ...) -- things that payoff in a year or two. You will need to do these before PV anyway.

- Its likely that if the house is not well insulated and sealed with descent windows, that this will be your next place to work on. Even though you have good solar heating potential, no solar heater can keep up with a drafty poorly insulated house.
Some ideas on this at the link above, and here:
http://www.builditsolar.com/Projects/Conservation/conservation.htm
This insulation upgrade calculator will help you estimate the dollar saving for insulation and window improvement projects:
http://www.builditsolar.com/References/Calculators/InsulUpgrd/InsulUpgrade.htm

- Next, I'd guess that some form of solar heating and/or solar water heating might be in order. If you have a place to put an attached sunspace/greenhouse, this can be a nice way to go -- it can provide heat to the house and some plant growing area. These can be inexpensive to build depending on how you go about it.
In a cold climate like Wisconsin if you are on propane(?) some DIY solar heating projects will pay back the cost of materials in about one season.
Some ideas here:
http://www.builditsolar.com/Projects/Sunspace/sunspaces.htm
http://www.builditsolar.com/Projects/SpaceHeating/Space_Heating.htm
http://www.builditsolar.com/Projects/WaterHeating/water_heating.htm

- On the cooling front, the same insulation and sealing that help the heating will help the cooling. In addition, I'd try to figure out a way to keep the sun from coming in all those good south facing windows in the summer. This can be overhangs that block the high summer sun, some type of external shading device, ... You don't want the solar furnace on during the summer.

The cold spring water seems like a good opportunity for no cost AC. Some dehumidification may also be necessary to keep the humidity levels from getting to high.


On the college student thing, I think that might be a good source of ideas, and if you can get an engineering student interested in solar, he/she might be some help on sizing and design issues. But, I'd say its probably a bit much to ask a student to do a good all around design. You would certainly want others to have a look at such a design.

Gary


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## Metcalf (Feb 15, 2007)

The simple answer....

Conserve first, produce later.

The long answer....

I went to college with a focus in alternative energy and fuels within a mechanical engineering program. You could contact the local university, in general students are looking for senior design projects all the time. The biggest problem with this is that you are going to get an over-engineered and overly complex answer that will be micro-managed by the professors. In general students rarely come up with the simplest answer to the problems, they are prodded to come up with the next big thing.

With your situation as you describe it....

The existing buildings need to be insulated as well as you can afford with a air tight envelope around them ( vapor/water barrier ) to help with infiltration of colder or warmer outside air. 

You need to get your energy use down as far as possible before thinking about pulling yourself off-grid.


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## OntarioMan (Feb 11, 2007)

I'd agree that taking stock of what you have now, and making improvements there (energy conservation), is the first step. Since you just moved in, take some time to get to know your energy use in the new place - keep records and notes. Know exactly what you're paying for energy (electricity, propane, natural gas, firewood, etc.).


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## quadcam79 (Oct 1, 2007)

we're in the same boat, just moved into our new place about 3 weeks ago. we're planning on doing solar and wind power. I'd say start slow so you dont get overwhelmed with projects. One of my first projects is going to be solar hot water. I'm going to make a simple solar water tank and build an outdoor solar shower. since we live in florida we have plenty of warm days to utilize the sun. 

I started a blog to keep track of things we're working on
http://homesteader101.blogspot.com/


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## DaleK (Sep 23, 2004)

Something else to consider is putting up a weather station and maybe a wind sock or something else simple to watch the wind directions. Keep track of where your prevailing winds come from and at what time of the year, where do the cold winds come from in winter, where do the cooling breezes come from in summer. Keep track of whatever other weather might affect your future decisions.


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## cathleenc (Aug 16, 2007)

just wanted to say thank you for everyone's kind and helpful input. We have a energy audit schedule 2 weeks from now - and will make plans from the info we learn. So logical to start that way!

thanks again,
Cathy


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## Blu3duk (Jun 2, 2002)

cathleenc said:


> just wanted to say thank you for everyone's kind and helpful input. We have a energy audit schedule 2 weeks from now - and will make plans from the info we learn. So logical to start that way!
> 
> thanks again,
> Cathy


Have ya gotten results from the audit yet?

William


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## Dutch 106 (Feb 12, 2008)

Hi Guys So what ever became of this project?
I'm in Columbus county just to the north of you.
Dutch


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## jenofthewoods (Jan 21, 2008)

I just bought an older farmhouse and land myself.
I am starting by fixing things first before adding new things.
Adding more insulation. Alot of the older houses werent as well insulated like newer construction.
Filling in all the gaps, cracks, and holes. Anywhere air can get in or get out plug it up with some sort of insulation or water and air barrier.

Use compact flrescent bulbs. look around the house and see what uses the most electricity. I was given the fridge when I bought the place but it has to be 20 years old. its still in good shape and it runs but I bought a new one since the newer fridge will use alot less electricity.
Check for phantom loads.
Then after I did all of this I would check on seeing about wind or solar to reduce my electric use even more.


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## katwhisperer (Dec 9, 2006)

What's the very first step after the windsock? Would I next build a bldg to house the batteries for storing the power the wind and solar generate? Thanks so much!


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## katwhisperer (Dec 9, 2006)

What's the very first step after the windsock? Would I next build a bldg to house the batteries for storing the power the wind and solar generate? Thanks so much!


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## WisJim (Jan 14, 2004)

If you are in Wisconsin, check with Focus on Energy, even if your power company doesn't participate, they have lots of good info about what really works. Talk to a professional dealer, installer, or site assessor.


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## Jennifer L. (May 10, 2002)

Whatever you do, check to see if you have state or fed financial incentives.
http://www.dsireusa.org/library/includes/map2.cfm?CurrentPageID=1&State=WI&RE=1&EE=1

Jennifer


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