# 6.8SPC or 6.5 Grendel?



## TnTnTn (Dec 23, 2004)

Anyone using either of these out of your AR for deer or coyote hunting? I have used my .223 for both but want to upgrade power a bit for deer. Either look like a good option for enhanced performance/power in the AR15 platform without going to the AR10 class of cartridges. I am having a 6.5/6.8 upper built now. TTT


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## gunseller (Feb 20, 2010)

I do not own either but have sold several. The 6.5 is not very popular compared with the 6.8. I know several people that have taken deer with the 6.8 and what they tell me is the 110 grain .277 puts deer down without any problems. Been kickiing around the idea of building a 6.8 upper myself for deer. Looking at a 20 inch lite barrel using a flat top upper.
Steve


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## zant (Dec 1, 2005)

I'm thinking of a 6x45...which is just a 5.56 case necked up to 6mm...same mags,bolt head...only difference is barrel...there are some nice 6mm bullets for deer size animals.just a thought


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## MichaelK! (Oct 22, 2010)

Here's an excerp from www.gunblast.com.


_As the question is certain to come up, this is as good a time as any to address the comparison between the 6.5 Grendel and another recent cartridge developed for the AR-15: the 6.8 Remington. A quick look would suggest two very similar cartridges. However, the two were developed for different purposes. While the Grendel was designed for long range target work and hunting, the Remington was developed for anti-personnel use at ranges out to about 400 yards. The Grendel case has a bit more powder capacity than does the 6.8 Remington, which matters little for a medium range combat cartridge. For long range work, the Grendels case design has a decided advantage over the Remington when using long bullets of a high ballistic coefficient design, because both cartridges are limited in length by the size of the AR-15 magazine. In the accompanying photo, it is illustrated in the cutout cases that a 130 grain .270 (6.8mm) bullet with a similar ballistic coefficient to the 120 grain .264 (6.5mm) bullet intrudes greatly upon the case capacity of the Remington cartridge, effectively limiting the bullets used in that cartridge to the stubbier 115 grain class of bullets. This presents no problem within the design parameters of the 6.8 Remington cartridge, for it was not developed as a long range cartridge. The Grendel case can efficiently use bullets up to 144 grains that are superb performers at long range. The 120 grain Remington Core-Lokt bullet pictured intrudes very little upon the case capacity of the Grendel. As a side note, all the qualities that make the Grendel an excellent long range target round, coupled with a high level of retained energy at extended ranges, also makes it highly desirable as a tactical rifle for police and military work_. 

Since I'm personally a fan of 6.5 mm, I'd go with the Grendel.


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## GREENCOUNTYPETE (Jul 25, 2006)

i would just use a better 223 round , testing some hornady superperformance and a few others 

or for the price of a new upper you could just get a 243 , 308, 30-06 for shooting deer

a case short enough to chamber and feed in a AR-15 doesn't have the volume to make a 6.5 or 6.8 mm bullet go the speed your going to want it

so you can use small very fast bullet with explosive terminal performance or you can use a 1-1.3 mm larger bullet and give up speed , the actual difference may be not be much and it comes at a steep price specalty uppers are expensive and so are specialty rounds as well as being hard to find.


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## Murray in ME (May 10, 2002)

TnTnTn said:


> Anyone using either of these out of your AR for deer or coyote hunting? I have used my .223 for both but want to upgrade power a bit for deer. Either look like a good option for enhanced performance/power in the AR15 platform without going to the AR10 class of cartridges. I am having a 6.5/6.8 upper built now. TTT


Either would work well. Of the two, I'd probably choose the 6.8. It will work well on deer sized game. I wouldn't call it a long range hunting cartridge but for anything under say 250 yards it would work fine. 

Do you handload? That would be the biggest factor between the two rounds, in my opinion. I've seen a lot more 6.8 ammo in shops than the 6.5. Especially with hunting bullets.

Have you looked into the .30 Remington AR? It's a shortened .30 that, unlike a .308, will fit onto a standard AR-15 lower. It launches a 125 grain bullet at roughly 2800 fps. Pretty impressive for something that will work in a standard AR-15. It's probably the round I'd go with if looking to turn an AR-15 into a deer rifle.

For shorter range hunting, rounds like the .450 Bushmaster, .458 SOCOM and .50 Beowolf are all great hunting rounds and will all fit in an AR-15. I'd feel well armed using them for short range hunting for anything in the lower 48 with the possible exception of grizzley bears and bison but it would work for them as well.


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## Murray in ME (May 10, 2002)

GREENCOUNTYPETE said:


> i would just use a better 223 round , testing some hornady superperformance and a few others
> 
> or for the price of a new upper you could just get a 243 , 308, 30-06 for shooting deer
> 
> ...


Are there any commercially available uppers in the .308 family that will fit on an AR-15? The only ones I know of are for the larger AR-10, being to large to fit on the smaller AR-15 lower.

I'd much rather use either the 6.5 Grendel or 6.8 SPC on deer than any .223 loading. And, the .30 Rem. AR or something like the .450 Bushmaster would be even better. That's just my opinion.

I agree about the cost of specialty uppers and the availability of ammo but if the OP wants to stay with his AR-15 platform for deer, I think the larger rounds are a better option. Again, just my opinion.


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## GREENCOUNTYPETE (Jul 25, 2006)

i didn't mean a 308 upper i meant for less than a 6.8 upper with new mag you could have a 243 , 308 or 30-06 deer gun like a savage axis or stevens 210 with a scope and not compramise on the round but on the rifle instead.


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## Ed Norman (Jun 8, 2002)

But then you wouldn't have a new upper for your AR.

I'm liking the sound of the 6.5 more and more.


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## TnTnTn (Dec 23, 2004)

I have bolt rifles in 30/06, .308, and ect. I like the AR15-I carried a M16a1 for a living for awhile. I have killed deer with the .223 out of the AR and out of a bolt .223. I do reload and use more appropriate 'deer bullets' in the .223. But I do want to use more power for deer out of the AR15 platform without going to the heavier AR10 class. My deer hunting is at typical woods distances with an occasional shot out to 250 yards or so in a pasture situation. The Grendel is no doubt better for long range because it can handle heavier bullets but I won't be shooting at deer past 300 yards anyway(and 90% will be much closer). I will be using 6.5 bullets out of the 6.8 case(a wildcat cartridge). I think brass and magazines are more available for the 6.8SPC than the 6.5G. So that is the reason I went with the 6.8 based cartridge. The .30RAR is a nice looking cartridge on paper but it seems to be having a difficult time in being launched/rolled out. Plus it has more power than I wanted in a dual purpose(coyote/deer) rifle. And the mags/brass will be much more problematic than either the 6.8 or 6.5G. I know this is not 'practical' when looked at in the cold hard light of economics but it seems to fit my intended use and I reckon that is all that matters in the end. Thanks for your observations and comments. TTT


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## Murray in ME (May 10, 2002)

GREENCOUNTYPETE said:


> i didn't mean a 308 upper i meant for less than a 6.8 upper with new mag you could have a 243 , 308 or 30-06 deer gun like a savage axis or stevens 210 with a scope and not compramise on the round but on the rifle instead.


I misunderstood. Sorry about that.


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## Gary in ohio (May 11, 2002)

Not an issue in ohio.. SLUG only... NO rifles for deer hunting.


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## unioncreek (Jun 18, 2002)

I would go with an AR10, most people are way under gunned when they hunt. I've seen quite a few animals wounded and suffer because someone's using a small caliber. Most people are not that good of shots and conditions aren't always the best to use a small caliber. 

Bobg


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

> I would go with an AR10, most *people are way under gunned *when they hunt. I've seen quite a few animals wounded and suffer because someone's using a small caliber. Most *people are not that good of shots* and conditions aren't always the best to use a small caliber.


I see more people OVER gunned, *because *they are poor shots.

They make bad shots, then try to compensate by getting a bigger gun, which makes them a WORSE shot.

I had a guy come in the gunshop once and ask about a 300 Weatherby Magnum because "the gun I have now won't kill a deer".

When I asked him what he was using, he said "a 257 Weatherby Magnum", which has a LOT more power than *any* of the guns I've ever used to kill many deer

Bullet design and *placement* is *everything*, caliber is secondary.


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## GREENCOUNTYPETE (Jul 25, 2006)

I have to ask why not 7.62x39 the upper should cost less the ammo less and the performance on deer is fine int he distances your talking looks like a 150 dollar savings on the upper and more choices , ammo is a price consideration also.

lots of deer fall for 7.62x39 sks rifles here each year , meat hunters budget auto.
most stores now carry 7.62x39 fmj and relaodable hunting ammo


sorry i think like a guy with little money, not one who has money to burn


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## unioncreek (Jun 18, 2002)

Bearfootfarm said:


> I see more people OVER gunned, *because *they are poor shots.


Your right there are quite a few over gunned, because they don't practice or choose the right bullets. I wouldn't use any caliber less than 243.6mm. I'd choose the most common caliber to keep the cost down. I'm cheap, but I reload and choose the best bullet for the job.


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## TnTnTn (Dec 23, 2004)

I agree with BFF that most deer hunters are overgunned. A more powerful round does not make up for poor shot placement in most circumstances. A deer shot in the leg with a .223 is the same as one shot in the leg with a .375 H&H-a wounded deer that is likely to become coyote and buzzard food.

As far as the 7.62x39 it does not run too well in ARs. The round has a lot of case taper hence the curved magazines. There is no room in an AR mag well for that much curvature at least in mags of more than a few rounds. And this rifle is a dual purpose coyote/deer rifle. There are more and better suited varmint/predator bullets in the 6.5 than the .308/.311 or whatever the groove diameter of the x39 is-hence accuracy issues. The 6.5 will perform better at extended range if wanted or needed. The x39 is a great deer cartridge no doubt to 200 yds but not an ideal predator round. And I certainly don't have money to burn-I sold some other stuff to fund this project. Plus there is the factor of uniqueness that has admitted appeal. TTT


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