# What do you feed calves?



## fcnubian (Sep 7, 2006)

What should I be feeding my calf? She is 7 weeks old. 

Here's a picture of her.









I was told to feed her my goat feed. I mix my goat feed myself. It contains Oats, Whole Corn, and Provider 38 Dairy Pellet. Its a 20% feed. I have been but she hasn't really taken to it. 

I dont know much about cows so if you have any other information you'd like to add please do so! I'd greatly appreciate it. 

Thanks.


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## Ronney (Nov 26, 2004)

I offer my calves calf meal (20%) from about 4 days old. A lot of wastage initially but by the time they are 7 weeks old they seem to think it's more important than milk - I start to wean at 8 weeks.

Did you rear this calf yourself and how long have you been offering her the feed? It can take a little while for them to get used to it. Also, have you got her on grass?

I'll have to check my calf meal in the morning but it doesn't have oats in it and the corn is kibbled, it also has palm kernal and molassas and I think it's the molassas that makes it palatable. Do the dairy pellets have molasses in them. If not that could make the difference because bovines love sweet things and nor is it bad for them.

Cheers,
Ronnie


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## fcnubian (Sep 7, 2006)

Thanks Ronnie.

I found this calf at work. The closest herd was about 3/4 a mile in both directions. We guessed her to be around a week old when we found her and I brought her home and bottle fed her. And she appeared to be away from momma for a while to because she was dehydrated and VERY VERY boney. 

No she is not on grass or pasture. I'm letting her hand graze until I can get some more panels. I didnt even think about her eating grass. I have been giving her hay daily. She'll munch on that. And she's eating grass now that Im taking her out on a lead and letting her eat. (Im sorta new to this. My dad use to do all the feeding when we raised calves.)

Im not sure if the dairy pellets have molasses in them or not. I'll check the bag when I go back out ot the barn. 

Oh and also I have offered her grain since she was approx 4 weeks old along with bottle feeding. All the way up till now. I stopped her bottles at 6 weeks hoping she'd take to the feed. She'll eat it but she's not to thrilled about it. And I definately want her to keep eating and she's appeared to lost a few pounds.

I could get liquid molasses and mix in with it if you think that'd help?
Do you mix your calf food yourself or do you buy it already mixed?


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## ksfarmer (Apr 28, 2007)

I would use cracked or ground corn instead of whole. You don't say if the oats are whole, but would be best if rolled. Small calves do better on ground or rolled feed. Also some dry molasses sprinkled on top of the grain mix will encourage eating. You might be able to buy a ready made "calf starter feed" at your local feed store. Definately get her to eating some grain, don't rely on grass or hay for a calf this small, unless you are still bottle feeding her.


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## fcnubian (Sep 7, 2006)

Thanks for your reply. 

I checked the elevators and I can get liquid molasses to put in the food. The oats are whole as far as I know...I'll have to stick with them. But I can get a bag of cracked corn for her. 

You think using the same feed as I am now, The provider 38, oats, cracked corn instead of whole, plus the liquid molasses will be good?

I was talking to another person who owns cows and she said if I had 16% Goat feed (Oats Whole corn Provider 38 mix) to use that and get a bag of calf manna to mix in with it. I told her I used a 20% mix of the grain listed above and she said that i could just stick with that and not buy the calf manna.


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## fcnubian (Sep 7, 2006)

Also could you please explain why calves do better on ground or rolled feed? 

Thanks


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## AnniesGoats (May 18, 2007)

Hi There! 

I have a 4 week old calf, a holstein.

He is on milk replacer and about a cup of calf starter (twice a day). 

I was told, and since this is my first experience with a calf I am going with it, once he eats between 2 and 3 pounds of calf starter a day, that he can be weaned from the bottle. 

I have had no problems with scouring, and I understand that it can happen easily. 

We give him 2 bottles of water a day too since we are concerned that he doesn't drink a lot of water from the bucket.


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## topside1 (Sep 23, 2005)

If you continue bottle feeding and have excess raw eggs around, add a couple into the bottle, cracked of course...


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## sammyd (Mar 11, 2007)

Cracking and rolling alows the feed to be utilized by the digestive tract easier. Whole corn has a tendanency to pass right on through.

I usually run an 18% starter for a while then down to a 16% grower till 6 months then on to a 14% dairy mix. Good quality 2nd or 3rd crop clover/timothy hay that has more leaf than stem. I try to buy them so they are able to hit the pasture or tether at about 6 months and they don't see hay again until winter.


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## fcnubian (Sep 7, 2006)

Thanks for the replies


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## fcnubian (Sep 7, 2006)

I was able to get some calf starter today.  THe elevator had it.


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## mtman (Sep 2, 2004)

you buy a animal and you dont know what to feed it :nono:


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## sammyd (Mar 11, 2007)

I think he said he found it


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## genebo (Sep 12, 2004)

Whole oats have a tendency to poke into the calf's gums. Sometimes they wedge in between the teeth and cause problems. At any rate, it may be uncomfortable for the calf to eat whole oats. Rolling oats, cracking corn, it all makes the feed more palatable. If they like it better, they eat better.

Genebo
Paradise Farm


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## SHELBY (Mar 9, 2003)

mtman said:


> you buy a animal and you dont know what to feed it :nono:



_I found this calf at work. The closest herd was about 3/4 a mile in both directions. We guessed her to be around a week old when we found her and I brought her home and bottle fed her. And she appeared to be away from momma for a while to because she was dehydrated and VERY VERY boney. 
_


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## TSYORK (Mar 16, 2006)

Yes, I found that comment quite unnecessary too. We're all here to help not hurt or insult.


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## fcnubian (Sep 7, 2006)

mtman-Yes your comment was quite rude. But that is ok. We do all have opinions. Atleast I'm trying to help her not let her starve to death or get kicked to death by the horses. Also for you information I got her at a 1 weekish old. (We guessed on age.) So she's been bottle fed. I have seeked help from another person who has cows. If you read my posts you will see that. Here I'll quote it...



> I was talking to another person who owns cows and she said if I had 16% Goat feed (Oats Whole corn Provider 38 mix) to use that and get a bag of calf manna to mix in with it. I told her I used a 20% mix of the grain listed above and she said that i could just stick with that and not buy the calf manna.


Please before you make assumptions (sp?) mtman read the posts.


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## fcnubian (Sep 7, 2006)

genebo said:


> Whole oats have a tendency to poke into the calf's gums. Sometimes they wedge in between the teeth and cause problems. At any rate, it may be uncomfortable for the calf to eat whole oats. Rolling oats, cracking corn, it all makes the feed more palatable. If they like it better, they eat better.
> 
> Genebo
> Paradise Farm


Thanks. She's liking the calf starter.


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## mpillow (Jan 24, 2003)

Keep her on the bottle if you can....
I have a year old calf still on his bottle....he's fat and sassy! (goats milk) 
I feed 16% sweet dairy and hay and the calves eat hay/grain sooner if put in with the milk goats...
There is also a poduct called "Snowflake" I think for adding to feed for early weaned calves..


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## Fla Gal (Jul 14, 2003)

Not long before I left the Ocala, Florida area I had a rescued calf. I'd never raised one before and was at a loss as to what to do. I pm'd Westwood and he shared this link with me. He also said the vitamins were important. I sold the calf at two months and two days old. She was very healthy and sassy.

Here's the link Westwood shared with me:

Mother Earth News
March/April 1978
STARTING RIGHT WITH BOTTLE CALVES
http://www.motherearthnews.com/Live...-03-01/Starting-Right-with-Bottle-Calves.aspx


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## Jcran (Jan 4, 2006)

Quick question...someone mentioned earlier on another thread that calves fed grain stop having the ability to create some sort of nutritional part of their rumen? I can't exactly remember...maybe one of the essential amino acids? Anyhow, I cut way back on the amount of grain my calves were getting...they are about 6 weeks old, get bottles twice a day, free access to pasture, about 1 quart of barley/1 pint of calf manna per day total for both calves and a titch of alfalfa. They are perky and grazing well. Does anyone recall how grain can affect them negatively?


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## piglady (Sep 28, 2006)

Cattle by nature are grazing animals. They have multiple stomachs so they can ferment the forage they eat to break down the fiber and get the nutiition they need. When you give grain, it changes the whole chemical and biological activity in the digestive system. It has to do with many things and I'm not a vet so I forget the technical terms. At any rate, too much grain will prevent the rumen from fermenting the way it is intended. Milk and grass is best of course but without mom, you have to feed grain because milk is just too expensive if you have to buy it. Grain gives them the protein they need but you must start introducing forage to their stomach in order to start building the beneficial bacteria and other so called germs. You must do it gradually though in order to give them a chance to get used to it.


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## dcross (Aug 12, 2005)

piglady said:


> Grain gives them the protein they need



Some grains are very low in protein.


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## piglady (Sep 28, 2006)

OK, let me reword that. HIGH protein grain or feed!


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## fcnubian (Sep 7, 2006)

Thanks guys!


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## topside1 (Sep 23, 2005)

FCNubian, how about a few more photos of this lucky little Heifer...thanks


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## JulieLou42 (Mar 28, 2005)

Two of the reasons you don't want to give them much, if any grain, are that they lose the ability to produce omega-3 oils [that's EPA and DHA that most humans need more of] and conjugated linoleic acid, which is a cancer fighter and helps humans build muscles, rather than fat.

Here's an article on the subject: I have another one, but it's too large to post...


THE STOCKMAN GRASSFARMER
Grass-fed Has a Far Better Story to Tell Than Organics, CLA Researcher Says

Staff Report

CLAY CITY, Indiana: Dr. Tilak Dhiman of Utah State University speaking at the American Grass-fed Association's convention said that American organic food sales have grown from $7.5 billion in 2001 to $18.4 billion in 2005 and are project-ed to reach $23 billion in 2007.
"Currently, the organic food sec-tion is the most profitable section in today's supermarket. Even Wal-Mart is bringing out an organic food line," he said.
"And yet, this is happening without any conclusive research that organic food is healthier for you. We have a far stronger and better researched story in grass-fed products."
Some of grass-fed's benefits in com-parison with the grain-fed product are:
â¢	500% more CLA
â¢	400% more Vitamin A
â¢	300% more Vitamin E
*â¢	75% more omega-3*
â¢	78% more Beta-carotene
In animal studies, 11 out of 11 had found CLA decreases cancer. r our out of five nave found decrease in body fat.
Two out of two have found a decrease in heart disease.
Six out of six have found increased immunity to disease.
Two out of two have found increased bone density.
And three out of three have found a decrease in adult diabetes.
While artificial CLA is now avail-able in a pill form, natural CLA from animal products is 600% more effec-tive in fighting cancer.
"This is a much more exciting story than organic food products have to tell."
He said he was not denigrating organics as personally he would like his meat and milk to be both organic and grass-fed.
"An organic 100% grass-fed prod-uct would be the ultimate in healthy eating." He said these health findings should benefit grass-based farmers and ranchers the most.
"CLA in a ruminant product increases linearly with the increase in fresh pasture consumption," he said.
"In milk, it takes 25 days on pasture to get to the maximum level but only five days for this level to collapse when the animal is removed from pasture."
This recovery time is much slower in meat products. Current research indicates that the CLA in an animal that Is ever fed grain never fully equals one fed no grain at all.
Animals that were fed small amounts of grain in their stocker stage and then finished on pasture alone had less than half the CLA of cattle completely grown from weaning to harvest on grass.
Dhiman said feeding an animal hay or wilted silage would decrease the CLA by one-third and green chop by 10%.
He said what created CLA was the highly volatile fatty acids in the grass that are quickly lost due to wilting.
Also fine chopping hay or silage decreases the CLA even further.
Feeding a ruminant animal fat also decreases CLA content.
He said the best way to increase the CLA content in meat and milk was to add a legume.
"Clovers increase CLA content by 30% over straight grass pastures."
Breeds have an influence as well.
The Brown Swiss produces the most amount of CLA in Dhiman's studies. This is some 40% more than
the Holstein.
He said the CLA is found within the animal's fat. Breeds that produce high-fat content milk and fatten easily on pasture are the breeds needed for high CLA products.
Supplements can also increase the CLA in milk.
Dhiman said fish oil has the great-est positive effect but plant oils such as soybean oil are also effective.
He said to remember that the ben-efit is in the oil of the plant and not the meal.
Full-fat, roasted soybeans and extruded soybean meal are far better than meals with the oils completely removed.
"It is far easier to increase the CLA content in milk than in beef. We have found no CLA benefit in feeding oils to beef cattle."
He said the reluctance of most dairy producers to go to 100% grass feeding was unfortunate because cheese and butter offered the fastest way to dramatically increase the CLA content of the consumer's diet.
He said a serving of 100% grass-fed cheese contained 212 mgs of CLA versus only 70 mg in a serving of 100% grass-fed beef.
To make this health food story even better, he said recent research has discovered a new fatty acid called Trans-vaccinic Acid or TVA. Human digestion can convert about 20% of this TVA to CLA.
This gives grass-fed products an even further advantage because TVA has been found to increase linearly with the increase in pasture con-sumption just like CLA.
"The more we research grass-fed products the bigger the (health) advantages to grass feeding gets," he said.


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## JulieLou42 (Mar 28, 2005)

RESEARCH ATTEMPTS TO ENHANCE CLA IN CONFINEMENT MEAT AND MILK PRODUCTS FALL FAR SHORT OF DIRECT GRAZING

Staff report

Dr. Tilak Dhiman of Utah State University, a leading researcher into CLA, found that efforts to raise the CLA content in confinement raised beef and dairy products through the feeding of high fat grain oils, synthetic CLA and green-chop pasture had fallen far short of matching the CLA level naturally produced in direct-grazed animals.

He said that direct-grazed milk had 500 percent more CLA than enhanced confinement milk and grass-finished beef had 300 percent more CLA than enhanced feedlot beef.

He said the big research push into trying to increase the CLA percentage was being driven by the knowledge that for typical North American beef and dairy products to be able to claim a cancer-fighting benefit from CLA, the consumption level must increase by 400 to 500 percent over today's levels or the percentage of CLA must increase by the same amount.

Interestingly, he said, this level of increase in CLA is almost exactly the level of CLA that Dhiman's research found naturally occurs in direct-grazed meat and milk products. He said that one glass of whole milk from a grazed cow plus one serving of grass fed beef or lamb per day would meet the CLA percentage required to provide effective cancer prevention.

DAIRY COWS SHOW FAST CLA RESPONSE TO PASTURE

With dairy cows, his research showed that confinement cow's milk recovered the cancer- fighting percentage needed after only five days of being on direct-grazed pasture with no grain. Similarly, the cow's milk lost its CLA percentage just as quickly when taken off fresh pasture and put on a diet of stored forages and grain.

He said the knowledge that there was a significant difference in the milk between cows on pasture and those fed in a barn was first discovered at the University of Wisconsin in 1935.

In 1946, the University of Wisconsin discovered that butter made from the milk of pastured cows made young rats grow faster compared to confinement cows.

In 1967, an Australian researcher first discovered CLA.

Dhiman, a former researcher at the University of Wisconsin, said CLA - conjugated linoleic acid - is created by fiber digesting microbes. As a result, it is only found in ruminants (and turkeys which can digest fiber in their lower intestine). It has not been found in pork, chicken or fish.

"CLA is the only compound of animal origin that has shown in research trials all over the world to inhibit cancer," he said.

While most trials in the USA have been on animals, there have been significant human studies overseas that have shown equally positive results. Also, Dhiman said, researchers have traditionally found a good correlation between animal response and humans in cancer causes and prevention.

"You can definitely feel confident in promoting your grassfed products as a cancer preventer," Dhiman told the grassfed producers.

He said some recent research has indicated that CLA is also effective in stopping the growth of cancer tumors in those who already have it and in preventing heart attacks.

SUPERMARKET MILK HAS ONE-FIFTH THE CLA OF PASTURED COWS

He said analysis of current supermarket dairy products found a CLA percentage of 4.5 mg/g in milk, 3.6 mg/g in ice cream, and only 4.8 mg/g in cheese. He said these were one-fifth the amount of dairy products made from the milk of direct-grazed cows.

He said research at the University of Wisconsin found that there was 500 percent more CLA in cows direct-grazed with no grain and no TMR supplementation over those fed a normal confinement diet. As the level of stored forages and grain is increased in the diet of the dairy cow the level of CLA in the milk declines in linear proportion.

In that research trial, the control cows fed a typical grain/TMR diet had a CLA percentage of only 5.5 mg/g of fat.

Those fed fresh pasture with no grain had 23 mg/g of fat.

Those fed hay with no grain had 14 mg/g fat.

"The secret to high levels of CLA is fresh pasture. If you allow the forage to wilt, such as with hay or (wilted) silage, it drops the CLA percentage in the milk by one-third."

He said they have found that normal milk processing does not change the CLA percentage in a dairy product. In fact, pasteurizing actually increases the CLA percentage slightly as does cooking.

DIRECT GRAZED MILK SAID WORTH AT LEAST $27 CWT

Dhiman said he is currently doing research into how much of a premium a 100 percent grassfed milk should bring in the marketplace. He said if you priced the CLA in the milk at the same price as the synthetic CLA in the pills that are now available it should sell for at least $27 cwt. (Commodity cheese milk in Wisconsin was selling for as low as $8.50 cwt in November 2000 when Dhiman talked about this research.)

"However that does not take into account that the natural CLA in milk is six times more efficient than synthetic CLA," he said. "I would say you have an extremely valuable product."

While milk shows a very fast CLA increase when the cows are returned to pasture, Dhiman's research has found this is not the case with beef.

GRAIN FEEDING IN WINTER LOWERS CLA IN SUMMER PASTURED BEEVES

Unlike dairy products which have only one kind of CLA, beef has two. The Type 1 CLA is the cancer preventer found in both beef and dairy products. Type 2 CLA is only found in ruminant meat products. This is the form of CLA that prevents obesity. (Unfortunately, it does not make you lose weight if you are already fat.)

In feeding trials with high fat grain oils, it was found that Type 1 CLA could be increased very slightly but that Type 2 only increased with access to fresh pasture.

Initially it was believed that a grain-on-grass approach or the mechanical harvesting of grass and the feeding of it to feedlot animals might increase the CLA percentage in meat. However, this was not found to be the case.

Steers that were given 25 percent of their diet as fresh grass showed no increase in CLA.

Steers that were given 50 percent of their diet as fresh grass showed no increase in CLA.

Steers who were fed 100 percent on grass cut in the morning and fed in the feedlot that afternoon showed no increase in CLA.

"The only thing we have found that significantly increases the CLA level in beef is to direct graze fresh pasture," he said.

Unfortunately, grain feeding an animal during the winter appears to have a negative impact on the CLA percentage even long after it has been put back on a 100 percent diet of fresh-grazed grass.

In Dhiman's research, steers that were fed a typical feedlot backgrounding diet of 60 percent wilted forage and 40 percent grain for five months and then finished on a high grain ration had a CLA percentage of only 3.4 mg/g.

Steers that were fed a typical feedlot backgrounding diet for five months and then returned to pasture for five months before slaughter had a CLA percentage of 8.5 g/mg.

This compared to grass-finished steers who had never been fed grain of 15 g/mg.

"It is very significant that steers that had been fed significant amounts of grain during the winter never recovered their CLA percentage even after five months on pasture with no grain. It may be that for beef to meet our minimum level of CLA (for cancer prevention) we may have to go to a 100 percent forage production model."

Dhiman said to remember that the CLA was found in the fat of ruminant animals. Therefore it was higher in dairy breeds such as Jersey with high-fat milk and in beef that had been well-fattened on pasture.

"We need to rethink our prejudices against animal fats. They are very good for us when they come from direct grazed cows."


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## mtman (Sep 2, 2004)

fcnubian said:


> mtman-Yes your comment was quite rude. But that is ok. We do all have opinions. Atleast I'm trying to help her not let her starve to death or get kicked to death by the horses. Also for you information I got her at a 1 weekish old. (We guessed on age.) So she's been bottle fed. I have seeked help from another person who has cows. If you read my posts you will see that. Here I'll quote it...
> 
> 
> 
> Please before you make assumptions (sp?) mtman read the posts.


rude so is keeping someone else animal


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