# Goat Circling???? HELP



## mvfarms91 (Oct 12, 2003)

I have 1 1/2 year nubian doe. She is current on her shots and worming. She has a mineral block, grass, grain, and hay. She went off her feed on Friday and starting walking in circles with head pitched to the side she is walking. Her two bottom teeth seem to be loose. The pasture she is in was just mowed on Wednesday, just because the grass was getting too tall. She looked like she was coming in heat on Friday and the buck was interested in her. Could he have hurt her or are we looking at some type of disease. (The mineral block is for goats and does have selenium in it so no white muscle disease-I'm figuring?)

She still is not eating, she is getting some fluid daily through a bottle. I have treated her with LA 200 and ivomec (in case she has meningeal worm)

Does any one have any ideas what is wrong with her? 

Thanks for any advice,
Susie


----------



## missbecky (Jun 5, 2004)

Did she get a spinal cord injury ?
Are her feet crossing when she stands?
We had a goat that we thought was having hip problems, but it turned out he got butted too many times and had a spinal cord injury.
might want to take her to the vet just to make sure.


----------



## mvfarms91 (Oct 12, 2003)

I thought about spinal cord injury, no her feet do not cross over when she stands. She actually does not stand unless she gets stuck in a corner. She either walks in circles or she lays down. She can get back up on her own.

Are there any goat diseases that cause loose teeth?

Thanks for your help,
Susie


----------



## LuckyGRanch (Jun 30, 2002)

I had a goat do this a couple years back and thought it was Listerosis until I discovered she'd been fighting and loosened up a scur that was just killing her! I wonder if her teeth are hurting that badly? Do you have any Banamine on hand? If so, you could try a dose and see what happens.


----------



## dale anne (Apr 28, 2004)

howdy...I had the same thing happen to my buck a few weeks ago was treating for listeria,goat polio,and endotoxemia...nothing helped...he was fine in the morning came out in afternoon and he was doing circles....went down on me the next day and never got back up...i put him in a sling.... fed him with a drencher...water...everything i could...a week later i had to put him down he got no better....after putting him down we figured the doe we put him in with had knocked him off the play yard slide and he came down on his head....i looked all week fer bumps and never found it till we put him down....it was at the base of his scull......watch fer drooling and weakness on one side of face.....many folks on here can help...they helped me alot and gave me sound advice just think that he had major brain swelling and nothing could have helped....but i feel with the advice i got i was able to keep him at the very least hydrated and comfprtable.....good luck keep us updated...dale anne


----------



## caroline00 (Nov 10, 2002)

I know that my doe that had listerosis got well but it was a hard road.

Listerosis isnt something that you can say...if he isnt well in a week, I'll treat him...

for listerosis
I gave my 135 pound doe 10 cc of Pen IM (in the muscle) twice a day for 10 days. I also gave Vit B Complex under the skin twice a day as long as she was off feed.

It takes a massive amount of Pcn to get thru to the brain.
The vet has something that can be given for brain swelling... I think it is a steorid. I think you have to decide how much the buck is worth to you. In my experience, injuries are short, goats bounce back really well. If he is still not doing well, then I would look for another reason.


----------



## mvfarms91 (Oct 12, 2003)

Thank you all for your responses.

I am leaning towards listeria, I have started her on an antibiotic program. She is still walking in circles-it may be too late since she has had it for five days. What do I need to do, or worry about, or know about listeria for my other goats. Is it contagious? Does anyone have a good website for listeria, I have looked but can't find one.

Thanks again,
Susie


----------



## caroline00 (Nov 10, 2002)

its usually from getting bad feed, I think (mold or mildew)

is the bottom of the feeder moldy? is there mold in the hay? do you have mildew in your woods? are they eating old bedding? or getting into a compost pile? some people never do find a reason/source... our goat was eating spilled feed left over at an old feeding site

one thing we ran into was she was circling so bad that she would get next to a tree and just keep going around it and her collar caught one day when we werent home. She didnt choke herself but it was just a gift from God. I took her collar off and hung it close by so I could use it while giving the shots.

Until I realized what it was, we lost one doe (usually our least strong) each year in the spring in the same doe yard. (for about 3 years) We have really rainy springs and the mud builds up in that one yard so I am thinking that there is something in that ground...so we dont just use that yard anymore. (we had many goat yards  )

I was just talking to a local friend (mom of 10) who was out getting more bird cages... it seems that we can keep adding one more child to the house each year but the animals take constant expanding of facilities


----------



## caroline00 (Nov 10, 2002)

BTW 10 cc is about the most you can give in one shot

we had a buck that had surgery in the field and the vet wanted us to give 15cc of PCN so he had us divide it into 2 shots...so we gave 7cc on one side and 8 on the other


----------



## mvfarms91 (Oct 12, 2003)

Thank you for your concern. The doe passed this afternoon. 

The feed is fresh and dry and clean. But you did say something that could possibly be it. We had round bales out in the yard and they never finish the last little bit, we try to burn most of the piles but some were left and of course very wet. I kind of think this might have been the problem. 

Thanks again,
Susie


----------



## caroline00 (Nov 10, 2002)

I am so sorry! Its hard, isnt it?


----------



## oberhaslikid (May 13, 2002)

Please ,When you have time go to, www.tennessemeatgoats.com and go to the articals and read the polio/listeriosis artical.If I knew how to sticky it here I would.Thank you!


----------



## mvfarms91 (Oct 12, 2003)

thank you all for your concern. I will check out the site thanks ober.

Good news, we had twin pygmies today. Both girls, yeah!! 

Susie


----------



## Milking Mom (Oct 2, 2004)

I copied this from www.tennesseemeatgoat.com file

Listeriosis is caused by the bacteria Listeria monocytogenes, which is found in soil, water, plant litter, silage, and even in the goat's digestive tract. The bacteria is known to multiply well in cold temperatures. There are two forms of Listeriosis: one form results in abortions, while the other causes encephalitis. Both types are seldom seen simultaneously in the same herd.

The organism can be shed in the milk of both carrier and sick goats. Its zoonotic potential (ability to be transmitted to humans) is of growing concern. Like Goat Polio, Listeriosis is most often seen in intensive management situations. Unlike Goat Polio, Listeriosis is more common in adult animals than in kids.

It is entirely possible to buy infected animals and introduce this disease into a previously uninfected herd, because some goats are carriers who never display any symptoms.

Listeriosis is brought on by feeding silage, sudden changes in kind of feed, parasitism, dramatic weather changes, and advanced stages of pregnancy. The encephalitic form is most common, causing inflammation of the nerves in the goat's brain stem.

Symptoms include depression, decreased appetite, fever, leaning or stumbling or moving in one direction only, head pulled to flank with rigid neck (similar to symptoms of tetanus), facial paralysis on one side, slack jaw, and drooling. Diarrhea is presently only in the strain of Listeriosis which causes abortions and pregnancy toxemia. Listeriosis can be mistaken for rabies. Immediate treatment is critical. There is no time to waste with Listeriosis. Recovery is more "iffy" than with Goat Polio. The exact manner in which both Listeriosis and Goat Polio affect the goat is not well understood at this time.

Treatment involves administration of high doses of procaine penicillin every six hours for three to five days, then daily for an additional seven days. Forty-thousand IU per kg of body weight of procaine penicillin is needed to cross the blood brain barrier and put sufficient amounts of the antibiotic into the tissue of the goat's central nervous system. Remember that one kilogram (kg) equals 2.2 pounds.

Prevention: Feed your goats properly. No silage (unless the producer really knows how to use it, and definitely no silage in the hotter and/or wetter climates). No moldy feed or hay. Clean pens. No sudden changes in types of feed. Lots of free-choice quality roughage, particularly in the latter stages of pregnancy. And cut dramatically back on grain!

I know this post was from several months ago, but thought some could find it useful.


----------



## NewlandNubians (Jul 10, 2003)

Yeah, it sounds like listeria to me. Would like to know the outcome. The circling, the stiffness... I think I remember treatment was large doses of LA-200 or if not pen g. Banamine is always good to give too. I had two does die from listeria. Haven't had a problem in two years thank goodness.


----------



## WolfSoul (Sep 9, 2004)

*OK, I've officially gone from being concerned about goat diseases that transfer to humans to being horrified.  Anybody want to buy some Nubians? Wolf



Milking Mom said:



I copied this from www.tennesseemeatgoat.com file

Listeriosis is caused by the bacteria Listeria monocytogenes, which is found in soil, water, plant litter, silage, and even in the goat's digestive tract. The bacteria is known to multiply well in cold temperatures. There are two forms of Listeriosis: one form results in abortions, while the other causes encephalitis. Both types are seldom seen simultaneously in the same herd.

The organism can be shed in the milk of both carrier and sick goats. Its zoonotic potential (ability to be transmitted to humans) is of growing concern. Like Goat Polio, Listeriosis is most often seen in intensive management situations. Unlike Goat Polio, Listeriosis is more common in adult animals than in kids.

It is entirely possible to buy infected animals and introduce this disease into a previously uninfected herd, because some goats are carriers who never display any symptoms.

Listeriosis is brought on by feeding silage, sudden changes in kind of feed, parasitism, dramatic weather changes, and advanced stages of pregnancy. The encephalitic form is most common, causing inflammation of the nerves in the goat's brain stem.

Symptoms include depression, decreased appetite, fever, leaning or stumbling or moving in one direction only, head pulled to flank with rigid neck (similar to symptoms of tetanus), facial paralysis on one side, slack jaw, and drooling. Diarrhea is presently only in the strain of Listeriosis which causes abortions and pregnancy toxemia. Listeriosis can be mistaken for rabies. Immediate treatment is critical. There is no time to waste with Listeriosis. Recovery is more "iffy" than with Goat Polio. The exact manner in which both Listeriosis and Goat Polio affect the goat is not well understood at this time.

Treatment involves administration of high doses of procaine penicillin every six hours for three to five days, then daily for an additional seven days. Forty-thousand IU per kg of body weight of procaine penicillin is needed to cross the blood brain barrier and put sufficient amounts of the antibiotic into the tissue of the goat's central nervous system. Remember that one kilogram (kg) equals 2.2 pounds.

Prevention: Feed your goats properly. No silage (unless the producer really knows how to use it, and definitely no silage in the hotter and/or wetter climates). No moldy feed or hay. Clean pens. No sudden changes in types of feed. Lots of free-choice quality roughage, particularly in the latter stages of pregnancy. And cut dramatically back on grain!

I know this post was from several months ago, but thought some could find it useful.

Click to expand...

*


----------



## moonspinner (Jul 2, 2002)

From what I understand of listeriosis, Vit B is just as important as antibiotics in treating this. I have a friend who we seem to think this is what her doe has (constant circling, high temp, stargazing, head flung over the shoulder, off feed - her vet also suspected rabies and ear infection) and she has been treating for over a week and there have been signs of progress. I too was going to point out the TN Meat Goats sitr which has a good article comparing List. to polio. So sorry for your loss.


----------

