# Looking for a dog -- not sure where to start



## wunderdarling (Feb 9, 2012)

I am looking for a new dog. Mine passed away in October at 15. He was a small, house dog. I want one that will be a companion but also function as a guard dog/protector. I am single and live alone. I live in a small development. I would want the dog to be an inside dog. I want a medium/large dog. 

I keep reading about different breeds but am not sure about which one would suit my purpose.


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## bluemoonluck (Oct 28, 2008)

Are you looking for a livestock guardian dog or a house dog? Two totally different things....


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## wunderdarling (Feb 9, 2012)

This would be a house dog. I'm in a development....no livestock.


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## BarbadosSheep (Jun 27, 2011)

You might be better off posting this in the pet forum then....this section is mostly for livestock guardian animals. 

some of the on-line dog breed selectors are pretty nice.....

http://animal.discovery.com/breed-selector/dog-breeds/questionnaire/page1.html?q=1

http://www.dogbreedinfo.com/search.htm

http://www.goodhousekeeping.com/family/pet-advice/dog-breed-quiz

http://www.k9country.com/perl//dogBreed.pl

http://dogtime.com/matchup/start


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## Felicity (Dec 19, 2010)

This is my favorite site:

http://www.nextdaypets.com/directory/breeds/All~1.aspx

Say you want to check out a boxer. It will give you a
picture, height, weight, colors, overview, character,
temperment, care, coat and training.

A chart will tell you size, grooming needs, exercise needs,
whether they are good with other dogs, and watchdog
ability. 

A lot of good information there when you are in the
deciding stages like I was.

Have fun in your search! Hope you find you a buddy
soon.


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## Rock (Jan 5, 2009)

Get a American Bulldog Or American Pit Bull Terrier, good ones will lay their life down for ya everytime.
(Bulldogs are my breed preference of choice:rock


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## Wolf Flower (Dec 21, 2005)

wunderdarling said:


> I am looking for a new dog. Mine passed away in October at 15. He was a small, house dog. I want one that will be a companion but also function as a guard dog/protector. I am single and live alone. I live in a small development. I would want the dog to be an inside dog. I want a medium/large dog.
> 
> I keep reading about different breeds but am not sure about which one would suit my purpose.


What breeds have you owned in the past?


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## BarbadosSheep (Jun 27, 2011)

Rock said:


> Get a American Bulldog Or American Pit Bull Terrier, good ones will lay their life down for ya everytime.
> (Bulldogs are my breed preference of choice:rock


I agree.....my pit bull is the best dog I have ever owned. However check with your homeowners insurance first to make sure they won't have an issue with you having a pitbull. Many insurance companies have a list of dogs you are not allowed to own if you want to be insured with them. VERY unfair, but you have to play by their rules. I have State Farm....they don't care what breeds I own because they don't cover dog bites. Works for me!


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## wunderdarling (Feb 9, 2012)

I have had a pit/lab mix and a german shepherd. Both were great dogs. 

Granted I don't have livestock, but I still prefer the tendencies of an LGD. My kids and friends are around a lot and if the dog chooses to see them as their "flock or herd" to protect...all the better.

I want guard dog qualities as I feel it may benefit down the road.


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## BarbadosSheep (Jun 27, 2011)

If you like the tendencies of the LGD (I do too), Anatolian Shepherds are fantastic. I know of quite a few of them who live indoors. They are not particularly high energy dogs. I prefer them to Great Pyrenees because of the shorter coat. Before I got my Anatolians, I was going through some of those breed selector things. I wanted a BIG dog, with a shorter coat, who was protective and intelligent, good with kids, low indoor energy levels but higher energy outside, and long-lived. Anatolian Shepherds kept coming up! The more I researched the breed, the more I liked what I saw.


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## westbrook (May 10, 2002)

do not get a pitbull unless of course it is Mr. Worldwide! oh be still my heart!

Many homeowners insurance won't insure you! check first!!! 

I am biased against them!!!!! on horseback out of the bushes comes a pit! after the vet counted 120 bites on my horse.. he quit counting. I was minding my own business and that dog attacked us! it started by jumping up and trying to bite my foot in a stirrup. then it went after my horse!

Any dog will protect you if you bond with it. Do livestock guardian dogs make good house dogs? yes they sure do. they bond to you. However, do you realize the size dog door they need?? ROFL!!!

In every litter there is a soft hearted, sweet dog that wants nothing more then to be with people.

you said a medium to large dog.. these dogs are Giant! they can eat off the counter in the kitchen if you don't train them not to! stand at the dining room table and with little effort can reach the center of the table and that is standing on all 4's!

As pups they can be hugely destructive. Chewing on a table leg is like eating cotton candy for us.

If you are prepared for a 3 month old puppy to weigh 50 pounds but has the mind of a puppy... perhaps you might want to find the breed you like and then look at a rescue.

Most rescues of LGD's want homes for them and not working conditions. Most rescue testers only have homes and not farms or ranches to test the dogs on and not many want to loose a goat or sheep or cow. But the rescue dogs have been tested in normal home environments.

I am not a rescue lover! these dogs are in rescue for a reason!!! however, I do encourage rehomes. There you know what the dog is about.

be sure to check with your homeowners insurance.. the dogs that will cost you a fortune or they won't insure you with are

Pitts
rotties
dobies
akitas
chow chow
and there are more!

Fortunately LGD are not known yet.


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## netexan (Jan 3, 2008)

I'm partial to GSD's mine are high energy outside but pretty mellow inside.


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## DaniR1968 (May 24, 2008)

Doberman!  They are bred to be with their people and protect their people. Mine are lovebugs as long as you are invited in or they know you. They have moments of high energy so make good jogging or biking companions but are also happy to spend a good deal of time keeping the couch from getting away. 

I did have to call around a little to find an insurance company that was okay with me having them.


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## BarbadosSheep (Jun 27, 2011)

I had a Bouvier Des Flandres one time. Boy was that an awesome dog!! She was tough and protective yet fantastic with ALL kids. Her activity level inside was very low. The only drawback was her heavy coat. Oh and that beard!! Whenever she got a drink of water, she dripped water everywhere.


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## Maura (Jun 6, 2004)

Most dogs will bark, most will bite if motivated enough. I have had a Bouvier des Flanders, also a standard poodle, and an Irish setter. All of them were good guard dogs. Each had enough size to deter bad people, regardless of personality. The Irish had a huge bark that scared anyone who came to the door. He bit twice, but I would not have counted on him as a protection dog. Besides, it's really hard to find a smart one anymore. The Bouvier did not bark, which I would have preferred. They present themselves, and if you aren't smart enough to leave, they jump on you and knock you down. If you are stupid enough to fight them they bite, and I mean they are capable of tearing your arm off. The standard poodle was bred as a guard dog, not just a retriever. Typical good family dog. With your past dogs, any of the above would be okay for you.

I would get a breed that is known to be good with children, then narrow it down to a dog that does not require a lot of exercise, then one that is very trainable. Before finalizing, spend time with that breed. Be careful of who you buy from, dogs vary from line to line.


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## wendle (Feb 22, 2006)

You might check out petfinder.com too for dogs in shelters


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## Wolf Flower (Dec 21, 2005)

One breed that I've been interested in is the Standard Schnauzer. At about 40 pounds, they are a good medium size, and from everything I've read and heard they are natural guardians that seem to have a sixth sense about people. They are active, and they do require professional grooming, but they shed very little if kept groomed. They are a thinking breed, somewhat stubborn, but still trainable, loyal, and they tend to worship the person they are bonded to. Socially safe and stable in temperament, but alert and watchful, they make excellent watchdogs.


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## BarbadosSheep (Jun 27, 2011)

wendle said:


> You might check out petfinder.com too for dogs in shelters


I personally think it's a little risky to bring a large guardian breed into a home with young children. I had adopted a fear biter once from a shelter. thank God we found out she was a fear biter on my husband and not one of my children. she seemed like such a sweet fun little dog until she attacked that day. Luckily she was only a 15 pound dog and not a 80 pound one.


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## bluemoonluck (Oct 28, 2008)

If you're going with one of the larger "protection" breeds, do your research and buy from a good breeder with solid temperaments in their lines.

Avoid backyard breeders, pet stores, puppy mills, and shelter dogs (who are almost certainly the product of sloppy breeding).

Big dogs with good temperaments are worth their weight in gold. Big dogs with crappy temperaments are a liability.

When I decided to get a Rottweiler I did my homework. I found a puppy with an AKC Ch sire and a dam who had working / service dogs going back several generations in her pedigree. What I got is an awesome 110# teddy bear who lets my 22# dog knock him all over the backyard, is gentle with my kids, and has a solid gold temperament. BUT he barks a mean game when he needs to, and he looks absolutely ferocious.

What you want is what I call a "visual deterrant" - you want a good solid dog who will obey you and not be a liability, but to the outside world looks like he'd be more than happy to rip a stranger to shreds. 

What you DON'T want is a dog who is mean, poorly bred, or will actually attack random people (even if they are strangers). Those dogs are a huge liability and you're setting yourself up for a huge lawsuit and lots of heartache if you go this route.


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## wendle (Feb 22, 2006)

BarbadosSheep said:


> I personally think it's a little risky to bring a large guardian breed into a home with young children. I had adopted a fear biter once from a shelter. thank God we found out she was a fear biter on my husband and not one of my children. she seemed like such a sweet fun little dog until she attacked that day. Luckily she was only a 15 pound dog and not a 80 pound one.


I agree and should have mentioned not to get an adult, but something less than 8 months old, especially important in the larger breeds.


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## bluemoonluck (Oct 28, 2008)

wendle said:


> I agree and should have mentioned not to get an adult, but something less than 8 months old, especially important in the larger breeds.


Unless the dog is coming from a very well known source, I'd say younger than that. Critical socialization period for dogs ends around 12 weeks of age - if you're going to get a large breed dog I'd highly recommend getting it prior to 12 weeks.

Exception would be if you can find an adult dog that you can meet in person and take for a 1-week trial run....like a retired show dog or a friend who is looking to place a dog or something like that....so you can get a true feel for the dog's temperament and personality.


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## Wolf Flower (Dec 21, 2005)

bluemoonluck said:


> When I decided to get a Rottweiler I did my homework. I found a puppy with an AKC Ch sire and a dam who had working / service dogs going back several generations in her pedigree. What I got is an awesome 110# teddy bear who lets my 22# dog knock him all over the backyard, is gentle with my kids, and has a solid gold temperament. BUT he barks a mean game when he needs to, and he looks absolutely ferocious.


He sounds wonderful. Who is the breeder?


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## bluemoonluck (Oct 28, 2008)

Wolf Flower said:


> He sounds wonderful. Who is the breeder?


He is a wonderful boy 

The kennel name is Von Knopf, Breeder: Sue Weaver. She's located in Kentucky.

This is him:









And this is him playing with one of my Mini Bull bitches when she was a puppy:


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## Wolf Flower (Dec 21, 2005)

What a beauty! And I'd definitely think twice before messing with him!


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## bluemoonluck (Oct 28, 2008)

Thanks, Wolf Flower!

He looks really scary when he barks, but when he meets people he immediately flops down on his back for belly rubs . OTOH, I'm pretty sure that if he felt we were in danger he wouldn't be so friendly :shrug: He's never been put into that situation so IDK how he would react.


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## CornerstoneAcre (Mar 10, 2011)

westbrook said:


> In every litter there is a soft hearted, sweet dog that wants nothing more then to be with people.


I would have to agree with this. When I picked up my Great Pyrenees puppy (for use as a goat herd guardian) there was one there that just couldn't get enough human contact. She was an absolute doll and ended up going to a home with a disabled young girl to be trained as her "helper" (they actually owned another one). I grew up with a "house" Pyr and know of a few others. All suggestions so far are great, but most are opinions - you'll have one too once you find a breed you LOVE. LOL. Anyway, if you can stand the hair... a Pyr is my vote.


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## Maura (Jun 6, 2004)

I would be very careful getting a Pry because they like to roam and the OP lives in town. Rottweilers can be nice, but there may be a liability issue. I love Dobies, but again could be a liability issue. A lot depends on whether her children would be prone to letting the dog out, leaving a door not quite latched. My vote is for a standard poodle.


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## pheasantplucker (Feb 20, 2007)

I have never owned a boxer, but I know a few folks who do. they absolutely love their dogs. Athletic, smart, good defenders and for some folks perhaps a little intimidating. I have three dogs, and I like my Irish terrier. They are rare, and if you buy one from a breeder, be prepped for the sticker shock...I acquired mine from a woman who had three schnauzer and two boys, one with cerebral palsy and the other with MS. This woman bit off more than she could chew, and was taking this Irish for a walk one day, and I made over it and fussed, so, she said, she was looking for a good home for him. He was only four months old at the time and he is now 10. Very smart. Devoted...Course if it were me and I was looking to get a new dog, my choice would be to go to the pound and rescue one that takes to you...Good luck.


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## Lenape Sadie (Jan 18, 2012)

I have an opinion too! Your getting a lot of breed suggestions, so here is another one!

Pembroke Welsh Corgi! My girl is coming ten and weighs about thirty pounds. Absolute doll in the house, barks a warning when people or strange animals approach and she has bitten intrruders. She has excellent discretion. If I am frightened she will bite. Of course she is too small to really mangel anyone, but I know I can rely on her to at least give me time to get away from a threat. 

She is also good with livestock. Even though she is a herding breed she is trustworthy with poultry. 

Easy to train, few health probs, and not a liability with insurance like some of the larger breeds.

A good friend of mine breeds and trains personal protection dogs, German shepherds and Belgian Malanois, and she loves my corgi's personality. She says one of the holes in protection dogs is that they won't attack people they know even if the owner is being threatened, she found out the hard way. My corgi has no such compunction. She bit my ex once when he was chasing me. Gave me enough time to get to phone.

The small size of a corgi translates to a different attack zone. She goes for the groin. Rather effective.

Absolutely trustworthy with children. A great little dog.


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## wunderdarling (Feb 9, 2012)

Thanks for all the input. I guess I wasn't clear about my "kids"....When I said they are around a lot, I meant they come to visit. They are 22 & 19. I'm the only one in the house. Dog would be solely mine.

Am going tomorrow to see some pyr puppies. Just turning 8 weeks old....mom and dad are on sight.

I'm excited. They have been my first choice --- just love them, but have been keeping my options open.


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## pancho (Oct 23, 2006)

I would give some serious thought about it before getting a pry.
They are working dogs, not house pets. People getting any type of working dog and not giving it a job usually regret the decision.
The dog sure does.


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## BarbadosSheep (Jun 27, 2011)

I know plenty of LGD breeds who are very happy as house dogs. Unlike most working breeds, LGDs are not active. Even when working, they lay around a lot. They CAN move when they want to, but seem to spend a lot of time "conserving their strength". lol! They don't get bored with having no job like a border collie might.


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## RedDirt Cowgirl (Sep 21, 2010)

pancho said:


> I would give some serious thought about it before getting a pry.
> They are working dogs, not house pets. People getting any type of working dog and not giving it a job usually regret the decision.
> The dog sure does.


It's not just the job - my friend's son, the best dog owner you could imagine, just had to turn his 1 year old pyr/anatolian mix over to a rescue. He had 9 acres to run the dog, with an older American Stafforshire Terrier he raised from a pup, got him his own sheep, and the dog still made it terribly plain he was in the wrong place as he STARTED to mature - it can take 2 years! Barking all night wasn't even a problem, which they also do.
They're the new fad dog, breeders are making a mint. They're easy to get for a good (or bad) reason.


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## pancho (Oct 23, 2006)

RedDirt Cowgirl said:


> It's not just the job - my friend's son, the best dog owner you could imagine, just had to turn his 1 year old pyr/anatolian mix over to a rescue. He had 9 acres to run the dog, with an older American Stafforshire Terrier he raised from a pup, got him his own sheep, and the dog still made it terribly plain he was in the wrong place as he STARTED to mature - it can take 2 years! Barking all night wasn't even a problem, which they also do.
> They're the new fad dog, breeders are making a mint. They're easy to get for a good (or bad) reason.


Yes, I had a friend get rid of theirs because of the constant barking.
Barking in the house is something I don't allow. Can't imagine trying to break a dog from it that has it bred into them. 
Looks like both owner and dog would be unhappy.
There are much better choices.
Getting a dog just because of looks seems like about the same reason as the dog's color matches the drapes.


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## BarbadosSheep (Jun 27, 2011)

pancho said:


> Yes, I had a friend get rid of theirs because of the constant barking.
> Barking in the house is something I don't allow. Can't imagine trying to break a dog from it that has it bred into them.
> Looks like both owner and dog would be unhappy.
> There are much better choices.
> Getting a dog just because of looks seems like about the same reason as the dog's color matches the drapes.


she didn't chose a Pyr because she likes the way it looks....she chose it because she likes the tendencies of the LGD breeds. They do make wonderful personal guardians. They make great house dogs too, if you are willing to deal with the shedding and their size.


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## wunderdarling (Feb 9, 2012)

Thank you Barbados....

It's true. I do want a dog with the guarding tendenceies of the LGD breeds. And yes, I do like the way the Pyrs look....lol Who wants a dog that they think is ugly?? 

Another thing I want is a puppy. That way they are completely accustomed to me and my habits. Getting them young you have a better chance of being able to control their tendencies (to some degree) and they will learn what is acceptable. I know there may still be barking (and the shedding...lol) 

I am just seeing the puppies. I have been checking local shelters and AARF is having a dog fair on Saturday that we may attend as well. I'm not making a rash decision. I've been talking with my vet too.


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## BarbadosSheep (Jun 27, 2011)

You know all of those breed finder tests? I took a bunch of them a while ago. I was looking for a family guardian, one who was intelligent, good with children, find outside, loyal, low prey drive and some other things. ALL of those tests kept pointing me to the LGD breeds. They do not have to have livestock to be happy. If they have a family or a person they can watch over, they are very content. Since then I have acquired a lot of stock so my dogs do have a job besides watching over me, but even with no stock...I would have still picked Anatolian Shepherd Dogs. They are simply awesome. I have never had dogs like these. They are very different from other dogs. Calm, dignified, watchful, very sweet, very alert, affectionate but not over the top with it. They are really unique creatures.


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## pancho (Oct 23, 2006)

BarbadosSheep said:


> she didn't chose a Pyr because she likes the way it looks....she chose it because she likes the tendencies of the LGD breeds. They do make wonderful personal guardians. They make great house dogs too, if you are willing to deal with the shedding and their size.


What is the pyr going to be guarding?
They aren't much when it comes to guarding people against other people.
It is possible to make a house dog out of any breed. Just some are much more work and the final results aren't the best.
Then think about the dog. Bred to be a LGD and not having any livestock, not being able to bark, and being limited to a house.

Barbados, how long have you been raising LGD?


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## Ross (May 9, 2002)

We had a boarding kennels for 40 years and I saw dozens of Pyrs as pets. They do just fine, and do guard the household and family as they would any territory. They keep that tendency to wander and will bark in the yard but other wise are fine house pets.


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## pancho (Oct 23, 2006)

I can remember back in the 1980s people saying the same thing about the pit bull.
They meant well, most of them. They just didn't believe or accept the history of the breed. They also based their decisions on their personal experiences with a limited number of dogs.

I do hope the LGD does not have to go through what the pit bull did because of people thinking they can make a house dog out of a working dog. There are plenty of breeds developed especially for pet, protection, and house dogs. I don't quite understand the reason behing picking a breed developed for something else and forcing it to do another job it isn't equipped to handle when there are plenty of breeds developed for that job already.


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## Wolf Flower (Dec 21, 2005)

Not a Pyr, but I have an Akbash dog which is another LGD breed. He was born on a goat farm and worked there for the first 2 years of his life. His owner was going through a divorce and had to sell the farm and move to the city. She took the dog with her and they lived in a small duplex with a tiny backyard. He ate the screens out of the windows, tore holes in the fence, and would regularly escape and tour the neighborhood. He clearly was not cut out to be a housedog. Had he not had the farm life beforehand, I don't think it would have made much difference--these dogs are born to need a LOT of space. Their exercise needs are not extravagant, but they need to have space around them or they tend to get stir crazy.


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## heavyrebel (Oct 6, 2010)

I'm sorry, but as a trainer who see's SO many dogs in the wrong home, do subject a LGD or a hearding or driving dog to an apartment/complex/development life unless you are going to spend your time working to give the dog what it needs instinctually. You are asking for problems. Sure, someone knows someone whos has a great indoor LGD...there are 1000 that have them and the poor dog is miserable. 

Corgi's...sure they bark...non-stop...MOST of them. They also bite. A lot. Want your kids nad friends bit because they scooted the chair too fast or moved to hug you? No, not all do this, but a LOT. THey are a driving dog, not a hearding dog. Drivers are bred to nip at the feet and bark. 

IMO? Get a lab, or lab mix. Great bark, will defend with growls, might bite is pushed but if someone comes into your house, and you have a barking dog....they are armed...your dog is not.


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## Goatress (Feb 4, 2011)

pancho said:


> What is the pyr going to be guarding?
> They aren't much when it comes to guarding people against other people.
> It is possible to make a house dog out of any breed. Just some are much more work and the final results aren't the best.
> Then think about the dog. Bred to be a LGD and not having any livestock, not being able to bard, and being limited to a house.
> ...


*I agree with Pancho.* Unfortunately there are too many LGD's in rescues because they go into the wrong homes. I am extremely saddened by the push by some pet and show breeders to 'gentrify' LGD breeds. It is wrong, wrong, wrong.


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## RedDirt Cowgirl (Sep 21, 2010)

While Barbadosheep seems to be touting LGD's as house pets, here's what he has to say on another thread about LGD and insurance: http://www.homesteadingtoday.com/showthread.php?t=433349

"These are LGD breeds we are talking about. None of these breeds are what you could call "highly obedient". They are highly intelligent, but think for themselves. They can easily learn basic obedience as pups but are not quick to obey once they are adults because they do not see the reason behind it."

My friend's son's LGD was gently raised by him from 8 weeks right along with his American Staffordshire Terrier, a very mellow dog he also raised from a pup. The LGD rather suddenly developed an intolerance for the AST in a violent way, and all other dogs as well. The AST had to leave the place until the LGD rescue is in place, lest both of them end up in bloody pieces. "Taking off", even with 9 acres at home, was another thing that endangered the dog.


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## Wolf Flower (Dec 21, 2005)

There are plenty of LGD crosses available at any given time, we see a lot of Border Collie/Pyr crosses around here since people don't bother to spay/neuter their stock dogs or LGDs, and then of course the dogs roam. These crosses are questionable flock guardians, but might make a good companion dog, if you are lucky enough to get the best qualities of both. If you end up with the laid-back nature of the Pyr and the biddable nature of the BC, it could be the perfect pet. The downside is that you could get the worst of both: the barking and wandering tendencies of the Pyr and the unstoppable energy of the Border Collie. You'd have to pick your pup carefully.


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## Ross (May 9, 2002)

Certainly a high energy dog is a terrible house or city dog only. You really want to make a border collie type a priority in your life. Not for the preoccupied person or someone with big life demands already who can't make time for the dog's needs. They do sleep really, now and then. I remember waking up at 4:30 ish to a BC pup tearing a circuit through the house that included our bedroom and across the bed at very high speed. Ending with 4 paws on my chest and a soggy tennis ball staring down at me waiting for my eyes to open enough before dropping. Play time!! Choose whatever carefully!


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## BarbadosSheep (Jun 27, 2011)

If all breeds were only kept and used for their original purpose, we would only have a few breeds to chose from to keep as companion animals. no terriers, no herding or sporting breeds, no working breeds or hounds. Many of the non sporting breeds would be out too, such as standard poodles. I know for a fact that within each litter of pups of any bred, there are different personality types. Should all pups who have temperaments that make them more ideally suited to be companions instead of the breeds original purpose be destroyed instead of being placed in pet homes? I really don't understand some of the venom I am sensing in this thread over someone's choice to keep a LGD breed as a companion dog. It's really uncalled for and pretty rude. People have been keeping Pyrs as pets for generations. They are not as obedient as other breeds, but can learn enough to be wonderful companion animals. I know of a woman who has an Anatolian as her service dog. I know of GPs and Anatolians that are fantastic therapy dogs. Dogs are resilient creatures, capable of adapting to a range of conditions and environments.


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## pancho (Oct 23, 2006)

BarbadosSheep said:


> If all breeds were only kept and used for their original purpose, we would only have a few breeds to chose from to keep as companion animals. no terriers, no herding or sporting breeds, no working breeds or hounds. Many of the non sporting breeds would be out too, such as standard poodles. I know for a fact that within each litter of pups of any bred, there are different personality types. Should all pups who have temperaments that make them more ideally suited to be companions instead of the breeds original purpose be destroyed instead of being placed in pet homes? I really don't understand some of the venom I am sensing in this thread over someone's choice to keep a LGD breed as a companion dog. It's really uncalled for and pretty rude. People have been keeping Pyrs as pets for generations. They are not as obedient as other breeds, but can learn enough to be wonderful companion animals. I know of a woman who has an Anatolian as her service dog. I know of GPs and Anatolians that are fantastic therapy dogs. Dogs are resilient creatures, capable of adapting to a range of conditions and environments.


The OP was looking for a pet, house dog.
The OP wanted a puppy.
Some LGDs may make great house dogs but that was not what they were developed for. The majority are much better suited for the job they were developed for.
There isn't venom here. Some people just realize that the majority of LGDs do not make good house dogs. Those who fail usually do so when they get grown. There is not a great demand for grown LGD that have not been around animals. Where is the dog supposed to go? It has failed as a house dog and no one wants it for a LGD. There isn't much other choices and people usually destroy the dog.

Why take even the slightest chance a puppy you raise will have to be destroyed just because you chose it for what you wanted and nature shaped it for another job?
It is just as easy to love another breed that makes a good house dog. Why take the chance of having to destroy it just because you like the way it looks?

I have seen many good working dogs destroyed by people making that choice. I just can't understand why.


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## Wolf Flower (Dec 21, 2005)

BarbadosSheep said:


> Should all pups who have temperaments that make them more ideally suited to be companions instead of the breeds original purpose be destroyed instead of being placed in pet homes?


Whaa? I have no idea how you came up with that idea, it's not part of the discussion.

The discussion is about the OP finding an IDEAL companion dog.

I'm not going to say whether a GP would make a good housedog. I wouldn't want to raise one as a housedog, any more than I would want to raise a GSD to guard sheep. Sure, it can probably be done, but it's going to be a bit challenging to mold a dog into a job it's not naturally designed for.

I do see that there are GP rescues who only want to place their dogs in companion homes, which I think is ridiculous, but I guess they wouldn't be doing it if it never worked out okay.


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## BarbadosSheep (Jun 27, 2011)

My point is just that almost NO breeds were developed to be house pets. Oh sure, a few small breeds were, but I can't think of any large breeds that were originally developed to be house pets. Does that mean we can't keep ANY breed as a house pet? That idea is crazy. Pancho...you asked how much experience I have with LGD breeds. I might ask you the same thing. How much experience do YOU have with them? I have not had LGD long, but I have been networking with many, many people who have many years in this breed. I know what I am talking about. Many of these dogs are perfectly well suited for companion work. Notice I said MANY....not all. Many are thrilled to death to lounge around inside all day. You say she should get a breed that's suited to be a house dog. what breed did you have in mind? I can't think of a single large breed that's original purpose was to be a house dog. Not one.


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## pancho (Oct 23, 2006)

BarbadosSheep said:


> My point is just that almost NO breeds were developed to be house pets. Oh sure, a few small breeds were, but I can't think of any large breeds that were originally developed to be house pets. Does that mean we can't keep ANY breed as a house pet? That idea is crazy. Pancho...you asked how much experience I have with LGD breeds. I might ask you the same thing. How much experience do YOU have with them? I have not had LGD long, but I have been networking with many, many people who have many years in this breed. I know what I am talking about. Many of these dogs are perfectly well suited for companion work. Notice I said MANY....not all. Many are thrilled to death to lounge around inside all day. You say she should get a breed that's suited to be a house dog. what breed did you have in mind? I can't think of a single large breed that's original purpose was to be a house dog. Not one.


Many breeds were developed for house pets. Some working dogs were made into house pets after they were ruined for their original purpose by those who wanted house pets.
A person can keep any breed they want as a house pet, they can keep a tiger as a house pet.
I just ask why would a person choose a working breed known for so many things people do not want house pets to do?
One thing that has ruined many working breeds is people who use them for something else they were not bred for.
When there is so many breeds better suited why choose one that may have to be destroyed?
They are free to do so but I still can't understand what would make a person decide to.


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## Goatress (Feb 4, 2011)

I don't sense any venom here at all just some practical advice from people who have had LGD's perhaps longer or long enough to speak about them knowledgeably. I personally don't sell pet or companion LGD's unless specific requirements are met, such as enough land (appropriately fenced) to keep the dog exercised and inside the property. 99.9% of my pups go to real, bonafide working homes - and for a reason. I turn down so many pet requests for my LGD's because I don't want to hear about them being in a shelter a year later because the people were in over their heads. And as Ross pointed out - a BC could be another 'disaster in the making' (my words) as there is a high energy breed that needs a job and room to stretch out.

Here is where I get hard nosed (again) and tell people to stick to pet type breeds or breeds that have been 'toned down' and don't have the work need and ethic most LGD's have. Yes there are Pyrs out there who are pets and service dogs. But for every one you see you can bet there are five in a shelter somewhere that DIDN'T work out.

LGD's are not for everyone! And a lot of people can get by having livestock without them. They are a great responsibility. BarbadosSheep you have gone from being a first time owner of two pups who are still under a year, to now you have two more pups and you are going to breed them. You can read and talk to people till the sun goes down but until you have lived with and owned LGD's for awhile longer than 8 months, and seen what can go wrong, the fights, the fence jumping when your bitches come into heat, the other issues, the power of most large male LGD's...well, it is not all a bed of roses. I think Pancho, Ross and others are just trying to come from a practical experienced viewpoint (so am I) and that's why I am usually so dead set against my LGD's being owned as pets. The one Anatolian/Kangal/Maremma who is on a 1,000+ acre ranch in Oregon I sold to a couple who use him to guard cattle and stock AND their house. One of my Pyr/Tatra pups double tasks as a goat guard and house guard. But in both cases they have stock and acres of land to roam on. So there is no apartment/companion/condo/backyard situation which I would in most if not all cases, turn down. The few homes I've approved for my larger breed pups, are also set ups where there is enough land to maintain them in.

There are so many other 'pet' type breeds out there the OP should be looking at and not LGD's, IMHO.


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## Ross (May 9, 2002)

To clarify I like Pyrs but the ones I know well are almost certainly from show stock. I've even seen them excel at obedience. Ok they don't sparkle or have that almost frightening keen-ness of a Golden or border collie, but they do their thing for their boss with a degree of happiness. I wouldn't doubt there are rescued Puyrs that would fit the bill but as with any dog and any rescue dog you gotta be ready for a dog that has abilities you don't, and a determination that isn't always on track with your wishes. 

I would recommend a Pyr pup as a house dog/pet/guard dog, although they're not my really favourite breed for the job. Nothing beats a German shepherd for bonding with a family and being trainable for a home defence dog. Even when un-trained they have a good record for fufilling their role. We had to re-home a gsd for a customer years ago, my best friend just had a near home invasion (they lost stuff from the garage while in the house) Rex moved in and settled fast at 2 years old winning them over and nobody goes near that house that doesn't belong. He'll even test me when I visit..... fortunately I pass muster!! No growling but you know the score regardless. 

My niece's Golden is not dis-similar actually. Bonded well to my mother and family and well socialized just un trained. If I had the time for her I'd steal the dog and make something of her. More's the pitty a great house dog but poorly timed and shouldn't really be here. That borders on an excuse. Drat.


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## Rock (Jan 5, 2009)

pancho said:


> The OP was looking for a pet, house dog.
> 
> Why take even the slightest chance a puppy you raise will have to be destroyed just because you chose it for what you wanted and nature shaped it for another job?
> It is just as easy to love another breed that makes a good house dog. Why take the chance of having to destroy it just because you like the way it looks?
> ...





Goatress said:


> Here is where I get hard nosed (again) and tell people to stick to pet type breeds or breeds that have been 'toned down' and don't have the work need and ethic most LGD's have. Yes there are Pyrs out there who are pets and service dogs. But for every one you see you can bet there are five in a shelter somewhere that DIDN'T work out.
> 
> LGD's are not for everyone! And a lot of people can get by having livestock without them. They are a great responsibility. BarbadosSheep you have gone from being a first time owner of two pups who are still under a year, to now you have two more pups and you are going to breed them. You can read and talk to people till the sun goes down but until you have lived with and owned LGD's for awhile longer than 8 months, and seen what can go wrong, the fights, the fence jumping when your bitches come into heat, the other issues, the power of most large male LGD's...well, it is not all a bed of roses. I think Pancho, Ross and others are just trying to come from a practical experienced viewpoint
> 
> There are so many other 'pet' type breeds out there the OP should be looking at and not LGD's, IMHO.


 Good to hear from experienced handlers. Where can the LGD pet that did not work as a pet go? An extremely patient trainer could make him a stock dog with 5x's the work of a dog that was raised in it. Who is gonna put that kind of time in, few and far between.
I have a female that was virtually alone for almost the 1st 11 months of her life (through no fault of her own) No pack or people skills, no social skills nothing a wild animal, the people that kept her from getting put down got her to me at 13 months. What would have taken 8 weeks with a pup, took over 9 months _(good thing I had decided right off to give her at least the year she missed as long as she was not people aggressive)_ hardest training I ever took on. 
If you need a stock dog get a stock dog, if you need a pet the shelter is full of dogs that will love you very much. Dogs are very smart and adaptable to most any situations, people not so much. 
Good luck in the pup search!


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## BarbadosSheep (Jun 27, 2011)

A person should not have to go to the shelter for a pet. What is wrong with wanting a purebred puppy of a specific breed? With a mixed breed pet, it's a crap shoot. you have no idea what attributes that dog may have as an adult. By making an informed decision regarding specific breeds, you have a much better chance of knowing what you are getting. I believe the OP knows exactly what she is getting into with a pyr. The dogs who end up in shelters are usually the ones who's owners did not make an educated choice. They bought on impulse, bought for a specific look, bought because their neighbor has one, bought. Or they wanted something that matched the home's decor. The animals who are purchased by an educated and informed owner are usually not the ones who end up in shelters.


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## pancho (Oct 23, 2006)

BarbadosSheep said:


> A person should not have to go to the shelter for a pet. What is wrong with wanting a purebred puppy of a specific breed? With a mixed breed pet, it's a crap shoot. you have no idea what attributes that dog may have as an adult. By making an informed decision regarding specific breeds, you have a much better chance of knowing what you are getting. I believe the OP knows exactly what she is getting into with a pyr. The dogs who end up in shelters are usually the ones who's owners did not make an educated choice. They bought on impulse, bought for a specific look, bought because their neighbor has one, bought. Or they wanted something that matched the home's decor. The animals who are purchased by an educated and informed owner are usually not the ones who end up in shelters.


Could you point out some of the educated choices you saw and why you thing the OP knows exactly what she is getting into?


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## Goatress (Feb 4, 2011)

Speaking of the OP....

Did we scare them off or what????  Haven't heard from them for several posts....(come back! come back! grin.....)

Spoke on the phone today with an LGD rescue person who told me in the past two years they are now seeing entire LITTERS of young pups being dumped on their doorsteps. She is convinced now, LGD's put into pet homes can never be turned around into LGD's. She has seen too much of it. Says it is rampant. So heartbreaking and frustrating. She says hands down the LGDs that come to her come from pet homes who bought one thinking it would make a good 'pet'. anywhere from 4 weeks to 6 years later they dump them out of fear, frustration, inexperience, etc. She agreed with me, that the push by some breeders in this country to turn LGDs into lapdogs, show champions and pets....get them AKC recognized so they can show circuit them, ribbon them up, then pump out litters and ask two, three, four times what the pups are really worth.....has the awful potential to ruin primitive working breeds in this country faster than anything else.....

ANYHOW....would like to hear what the OP thinks at this point, and if they have decided to get another breed or what????????????


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## wunderdarling (Feb 9, 2012)

No....I wasn't scared off. Have had a busy weekend.

Was supposed to go see the pyr puppies on Saturday but my schedule didn't work out. Went to an AARF dog fair and saw some cute pups. 

I appreciate everyone's input about picking a breed. I understand the concern for picking a breed that will fulfill my needs but also fulfill the dogs needs. That is why I haven't made a final decision.

Certain breeds do not appeal to me and I have concerns with mixed breeds. As one poster said, you have to hope to get the best of the mixed breeds qualities. 

I haven't ruled out pyrs (as I hope to have more land in the near future). Even though I am in a neighborhood now, it is not my final resting place. 

I plan on continuing to look and I think/feel that when I meet the right puppy, I will make my choice.


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## pancho (Oct 23, 2006)

wunderdarling said:


> No....I wasn't scared off. Have had a busy weekend.
> 
> Was supposed to go see the pyr puppies on Saturday but my schedule didn't work out. Went to an AARF dog fair and saw some cute pups.
> 
> ...



Don't take anything I posted personal. I am thinking about the dog. Years ago I had to watch the breed I love be ruined by pet breeders and owners. I finally had to get rid of mine. The breed was ruined.
I have a mixed breed dog now. It took me many years before I would own a dog again. The one I have now is out of a 1/2 pyr and 1/2 border collie bred to an aussie. The best dog I have ever owned. She will protect anything I own, from a baby rabbit or guinea pig up to a horse. The only thing she does not like is a cat. She hates them. Even as bad as she hates them I can stop her on a dime if she starts chasing one. I don't even have to raise my voice. She is trained to voice and hand signals.
Guess I got lucky and got the best of all three breeds rolled into one dog.


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## Wolf Flower (Dec 21, 2005)

pancho said:


> The one I have now is out of a 1/2 pyr and 1/2 border collie bred to an aussie. The best dog I have ever owned. She will protect anything I own, from a baby rabbit or guinea pig up to a horse. The only thing she does not like is a cat. She hates them. Even as bad as she hates them I can stop her on a dime if she starts chasing one. I don't even have to raise my voice. She is trained to voice and hand signals.
> Guess I got lucky and got the best of all three breeds rolled into one dog.


That's exactly what I was talking about. With all of these herding/LGD crosses that pop up, odds are OP could find one that falls into this category based on numbers alone. I see GP/Border Collie puppy ads in the newspaper and Craigslist every week... I bet if you visited every single such litter you'd eventually be able to find a pup with this temperament, but of course you'd have to know what you are looking for.


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## RedDirt Cowgirl (Sep 21, 2010)

I value this forum for all the learning it's given me, and I think we're all trying just to extend our experience to benefit others in exchange. (How many head bonks have we given ourselves while crying out "If I only knew!"?)

So, not to belabor this thread, I do have more to add - My friend has been put back 2 weeks on his LGD rescue because the Humane Society had an emergency rescue. So they're not being put up for public adoption, but going straight to rescue. The woman who does this work said it's getting so bad that LGD's are being abandoned at various vet practices in the night, and she herself went into her vet to pick up some stuff and when she came out after about 5 minutes there was a young LGD tied to her van's back bumper. She said the ones she knows about have all been males.


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## citxmech (Dec 26, 2011)

RedDirt Cowgirl said:


> So, not to belabor this thread, I do have more to add - My friend has been put back 2 weeks on his LGD rescue because the Humane Society had an emergency rescue. So they're not being put up for public adoption, but going straight to rescue. The woman who does this work said it's getting so bad that LGD's are being abandoned at various vet practices in the night, and she herself went into her vet to pick up some stuff and when she came out after about 5 minutes there was a young LGD tied to her van's back bumper. She said the ones she knows about have all been males.


Interesting point - When assessing the litter we picked our Kangal/Boerboel cross from we noted that the least dominant male was more dominant than the most dominant female. FWIW, we're incredibly pleased with our dog so far (8 months old, unfixed, female).

Though I would not recommend a LGD breed to the "average" pet owner - I probably would not recommend _any animal_ for the "average" pet owner - so I'm not sure that's saying much. Having said that, there are plenty of responsible dog-owners out there who do take their animal's needs to heart and understood before hand what they are getting into. LGDs in a home environment do take a bunch of work - every single day, but I believe it is quite possible to have a very happy and well behaved dog if you live up to your end of the bargain.


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## Wolf Flower (Dec 21, 2005)

citxmech said:


> Interesting point - When assessing the litter we picked our Kangal/Boerboel cross from we noted that the least dominant male was more dominant than the most dominant female. FWIW, we're incredibly pleased with our dog so far (8 months old, unfixed, female).


Interesting. I have been talking with the Akbash people and they all seem to say Akbash are just the opposite--the males are laid back and easygoing, while the females are fiesty and "bitchy". It's interesting how different breeds can have marked sexual dimorphism in terms of temperament, and how in some breeds, the males are more difficult while in other breeds, the females are the more challenging ones.



> Though I would not recommend a LGD breed to the "average" pet owner - I probably would not recommend _any animal_ for the "average" pet owner - so I'm not sure that's saying much.


Haha! I feel the same way--half the time I don't even think *I* should have animals.


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## earthkitty (Mar 3, 2011)

I know of a woman who wanted to seem "impressive" or some such nonsense. She had two Maremmas shipped over from working farms in Italy, to keep as house pets. Oh wouldn't her friends think she was fancy!!

One of the dogs BIT HER NOSE OFF. 

So, she has permanent scars (they were able to reattach the nose), and the dogs that were ruined by this woman are now dead.

There is no way in hell I would EVER recommend an LGD as a house pet. Everyone has good intentions, except perhaps the thousands of people who are slamming out these puppies as fast as they can, to sell to people who don't even know what words LGD stands for.

And I don't even have an LGD yet. Still reading. 


I agree that for every job, there is a breed. Choose accordingly and everyone will be happy.

And rescues do have puppies. OP, check out Big Dogs Huge Paws rescue. Last I looked they had a ton of large breed puppies.


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## nancylee (Mar 8, 2011)

I have done dog rescue, rescuing puppies and dogs from high kill shelters in the south, and there are millions of wonderful, sweet dogs needing homes who will protect the OP without getting involved with a LGD. I had a Kuvasz rescue about 20 years ago, and she was a TOUGH dog to live with. Super dominant, and aggressive over food. I sure did learn a lot from her about dogs, though, especially LGDs. I would never get one if I did not have livestock to guard. She was great with my kids, as in children, but not with anyone else.


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