# Not the typical bottle calf questions



## Cheryl aka JM (Aug 7, 2007)

I'm gonna get to some antibiotic questions~ but you need a bit of background to understand the questions.

So~ I've raised a few bottle calves~ I'm not a complete novice but I'm not an expert by any stretch either. Still learning. I've got a couple Nurse cows I raised from bottle calves on their second freshening each. Bess freshened March 26th~ so I"ve been on the hunt for bottle calves to put on her. I'm not in a area with a lot of dairy's so the search is intensive and involves some serious driving. I found a couple on the 31st~ picked them up and immediately began the shipping fever battle. Sadly I lost the battle with one of the calves~ I suspect he did not have enough colostrum as Nuflor twice, Draxxin once and intensive care could not save him. So I"m on the hunt again. 

A gentleman a bit over an hour from me is advertising calves~ and he wants more than I want to pay. Well~ he wants a lot more than I WANT to pay and a bit more than I"m willing to pay. He's asking $200 per. But he says they are 3 weeks old the picture of health half angus bottle calves. So I drive out to see them..........

They are hunched over, coughing, scouring Holsteins, jerseys and Holstein/jersey crosses. They looked bad~ and were scouring and coughing away while the man informed me he gives them a shot of penicillin EVERY DAY to "keep them healthy" had given them some scour boluses because "We just switched to 21 day milk replacer and that makes them scour a bit" and had given them both Corid and Sulmet "to keep them heathy"......

And no joke~
The calf that died looked better than these calves the morning before he died!

Is it usual to give them that much antibiotic and stuff?
Am I having so much trouble because I'm not giving antibiotic unless I see a problem?

I've got a fellow coming through TN this coming week with Holstiens off a Dairy in Florida I"m hoping to meet him on the road and buy a couple calves off him~ reduce the shipping stress on me and on them by grabbing them on route and taking them to my place rather than have a completely new trip. Should I stop at my vet and get some antibiotic before I go get them?

And those with Calves coming out of that dairy auction up in Kentucky~ The calves I just lost one from came down from that area (I purchased him from someone on Nashville that had brought him down I'm thinking out of Kentucky) Well~ this other man who is going to Florida after calves is telling me the calves out of Kentucky are iffy and a lot of them are not getting the colostrum before being shipped to the sale barn~ thats why he says he goes to the dairy in Florida to buy the calves.

I guess what I really am interested in hearing is~ those that run nurse cows and buy bottle calves~ how much trouble to do you have getting the calves~ how much antibiotic you pump into them~ and where are your good ones coming from?
Thanks!


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## gone-a-milkin (Mar 4, 2007)

It sounds to me like the Angus guy was just trying to unload those sick calves quick before they died.
He had pumped them up w/everything he could think of "to keep them healthy".

I dont have experience with buying shipped calves,
but I have treated a few sick ones. 
Yes, it is important to have an arsenal full of meds (I know you already learned this!)
but it as a last resort that someone just goes down the list treating willy-nilly.

Where I am we put everyone on cocci prevention as a matter of course, but 
nobody gets shots until symptoms appear. 
Then they get shots IMMEDIATELY, the sooner the better.

I am sorry you are having such bad luck this year getting calves.


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## kycrawler (Sep 18, 2011)

I start a couple hundred calves a year I buy them from 2 different auctions and from a local amish community . There is another guy going to the amish and paying $175-200 per head for big 3 day old holstein bull calves i buy the smaller calves he doesnt want and all the jerseys and cross breds normally in the $50-60 range at the auctions i buy mainly heifer calves and crossbreds . Calves are always high this time of year people buying bucket calves for hobby farms bull calves get cheaper about june-july and really cheap october . I give 3 cc's of baytril as soon as i get them home . They get milk and access to grain and hay from day 1 . scours are treated with pennicillin or la 200 and electrolytes . I have not had good luck treating baby calves with draxxin so i do not use it on little calves anymore that and the fact that a 100 ml bottle of draxxin is $290 and a 100 ml bottle of baytril is $95 


I suspect your getting stressed calves to begin with and they are hard to save no matter what you do . Find a dairy within a reasonable distance to get your calves from and leave the jockeys and craigslist traders keep those junk over shipped salebarn calves


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## happydog (May 7, 2008)

Cheryl aka JM said:


> how much trouble to do you have getting the calves~ how much antibiotic you pump into them~ and where are your good ones coming from?


Are you looking for beef breeds specifically? Or just any kind of bottle calves?


I have no experience buying beef calves. Around here you can't find any for sale. Everybody has cow calf pairs. The prize is the calf and no one will sell one, unless perhaps the mother dies and the farmer has no one in his family, friends or neighborhood who wants to take on a bottle calf. Bottom line is, nobody is willing to sell a calf.


However, Jersey calves are another matter. When my cows freshen I go to the Jersey directory and start calling all the dairies within a couple hours of me. I can get a Jersey calf for about $20-$30. 

I'm kind of picky, I've seen some awful dairies and some where they really care about their animals. There are a couple I skip right over. IMO, a large part of the success with bottle calves is to buy healthy calves from a consciencious farmer who will make sure they've had enough colostrum. 

I think I've had good success because I start with healthy calves and graft them onto a cow so they have a mama to love them. If I don't put them directly on the cow, I bottle feed them warm milk fresh from the cow. 

I only give antibiotics as needed, preferably none. I use kaolin pectate and probiotics if they start to scour, and only move to an antibiotic if that doesn't clear it up. 

Here's the link to the Jersey breeders directory. I don't bother with holsteins or any other breed because Jersey meat tastes the best and Jersey calves are the cutest to look at. :happy2: 
(Bull calves are dumb as stumps so it helps a lot if they're cute.)


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## oregon woodsmok (Dec 19, 2010)

I don't think you can save them once they look that bad. I certainly wouldn't buy one.

However, I do have to point out that it has been a couple of decades since penicillin has been any good to treat sick calves. The boulouses are usually for scours, not pneumonia and they don't work, anyway.

If you've got a sick calf, you need to spend some money and get a lot better antibiotic than a bottle of injectible penicillin from the farm store.


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## Cheryl aka JM (Aug 7, 2007)

Thanks for that info on the breeder directory. Dairy bull calves are what I'm after and I'll try some of those listed tomorrow (feels rude calling them on a Sunday). I'm a bit leary if it will do any good though~ just yesterday before going out to see the overpriced calves I drove out to two different small dairies here local. The first one said he didn't have any calves for sale and directed me to the other one. That one I had a hard time finding any body and when I finally did a woman told they "No sell calves" and that was the end of the conversation.

Appreciate peoples insights about this. Like I said~ I'm not so much looking for advice as looking to hear what other experiences have been. I could sure use some advice finding the calves ($20 to 30 WOW! I paid $150 for my last calves~ and I offered $150 to the man at the dairy who would talk to me and I'm still not getting decent calves!)

I know it's tough all over~ and of course Bessie had to choose to freshen at the worst possible time for finding calves. It's interesting to hear others experiences and advice. Thanks all!


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## happydog (May 7, 2008)

Most dairies (at least the ones around here) contract with someone to come around and take away all the bull calves every couple of days. They're a nuisance the farmer doesn't want to deal with. However, the calf disposer (I don't know what their real title is) doesn't pay much at all for them. 

My experience has been that the dairies generally don't have calves hanging around, unless it was just born that morning. But they'll be glad to take your number and call you when the next one is born. 

Bottom line is dairy bull calves are a necessary but unwelcome nuisance. There's only one end for a bull calf, the only question is when. Generally a good dairy owner is glad to see them go home with someone where they've hopefully got a shot at a decent life before they get killed and eaten.


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## gone-a-milkin (Mar 4, 2007)

The dairy where I work we raise a certain number of replacements each year on their dams for the first few days, then bottles.
and all the bully boys and extra heifers go to an Amish family who keep several nurse cows.
All calves stay with their own mamas for 3 days (sometimes longer) before they leave.

In situations where a fresh heifer does not accept her baby 
then it becomes *my* job to see that they get their own mama's colostrum in a bottle or tubed if necessary.
That is not always easy to keep straight on who is whose when you get 5-7 come fresh in the same day!
But I try.


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## sammyd (Mar 11, 2007)

dairy calves are going for 100 - 180 a pop around here. A couple of months ago I watched them go for upwards of 250. And a few years ago I watched them go for less than 75.
While they are a product of dairying that normally doesn't make much money, the beef market at the moment is still up and actual cow numbers are low. Anything that will grow into hamburger is worth more than it used to be.

This is Americas Dairyland so getting hold of calves is no problem as long as you have the funds. I have bought the majority of ours from the sales barn and will probably continue to do so. We rarely use an antibiotic much less shoot them up every day just "to keep them healthy".
We do have friends that farm and have purchased animals from them in the past (and prefer to do so)but they are smaller and do not always have anything available when we are ready to start one.


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## Cheryl aka JM (Aug 7, 2007)

It's very interesting hearing everyone's thoughts and experiences. Thanks! Gives me stuff to think about while I"m milking the cow! ~5 gallons today....I'm swimming in milk!


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## opportunity (Mar 31, 2012)

I got mine from a dairy that is 30 min away but they only sell 20 a year so they are all gone by febuary. they cost $120 each but they are all healthy. All three of mine are on cows though one didn't have a mama for a while my jersey was mean and tried to kick him even after a month but an angus lost her baby and he has a mama now. I have always had a hard time getting calves the angus are $400 and hard to find and this is the only dairy within two hours so if its not January I can't get any.


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