# Flemish Color Genetics



## pfaubush (Aug 17, 2009)

I am so full of questions today! I have a sandy doe, 2 white does, a fawn buck, and a litter out of my sandy that I will be choosing a doe and possibly a buck from.

I was told that I could only cross colors in the following ways: sandys and fawns are ok and that blues, blacks, steels, grays and whites bred together are ok. I was told that I cannot breed a red or a sandy to anything but eachother.

Is this because the fawn carries the agouti gene? I am trying so hard to grasp genetics, but this is one I don't get. I read an article on the Flemish breeder's site and I interpretted it to mean that I could breed a white to a sandy if it was hiding steel or gray. 

Please, will one of you genetics gurus explain this to me?


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## Honorine (Feb 27, 2006)

Flemish folks are freaky about color crossing, they really don't like it, would probably prefer that you only bred same to same. For instance, yes you can breed sandies to fawns but it can damage both colors, for instance a sandy carrying non extension can have less black ticking and look faded, and a fawn out of sandies can be smutty and have dark ear lacing. Still you can breed the two together. It is permissable to breed a white to any agouti, as long as you know what color the white is genetically under the white, not as good to breed it into the self colors for fear of stray whites and pale toenails. Blacks can be crossed to Sandies, but not to fawns, or you may someday get big torts. Same with Blue, can't cross it to Sandies, someday Opals may pop up, and crossing blue to light grays can create squirrels, although some of the best light grays sort of look like squirrels--hmmm. Crossing sandies to light grays is a major major no no, even if it is masked by the REW gene, once again it damages both colors, sandies look washed out and lose rufus, grays look smutty and get shadow barrs on their legs. I always bred light grays to light grays, would have bred in a white to lighten and improve color if I could have found one that was a genetic gray. Steels are tricky, you can cross them to blacks and grays, do not want to add blue(dilute) in.

So then, sandies will be best bred to sandies or blacks(sandy based blacks)
Fawns bred to sandies, or better only fawns or sandie/fawn based whites
Light grays to grays, gray based whites, blacks(gray based) and possibly steel
Blues to blues or blacks.

Clear as mud? Good, because none of this matters if your only breeding for pets or home use, it only matters if you keeping pedigrees and selling to Flemish people. There are those who will refuse to buy your rabbit if the colors on the ped are wrong and then you'll be branded as a color crosser. Almost as bad as a cross dresser, no wait there's a highly liked judge thats a cross dresser so methinks that color crossing must be worse.


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## Honorine (Feb 27, 2006)

Is this the article that you were reading?-

http://www.nffgrb.com/Articles/Article-Genetics1.html

It does cut the varieties into 2 groups, then puts the selfs off by themselves.


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## pfaubush (Aug 17, 2009)

:shocked: Yep...clear as mud. Actually, I think I've got it. Thank you very much for the tutorial!!! What a lot to take in!!!


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## pfaubush (Aug 17, 2009)

Yes, that is the article. Since my understanding of genetics is about as big as my pinky nail, it was very hard to comprehend, in contrast to what I had heard. I bred a white buck to my sandy doe and have 5 blacks, 5 whites, and a sandy in the box (big litter, but all are doing well). After the breeding, I was told that was a big no no.


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## Guest (May 14, 2010)

If you bred a white buck to a sandy doe and got black, white, and sandy:

Parents:
White buck: _a__cc____
Sandy doe: AaB_CcD_E_

Offspring:
black: aaB_C_D_E_
white: ____cc____
sandy: A_B_CcD_E_


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## Honorine (Feb 27, 2006)

Well sounds like the following is the most likely scenario to me-

REW Buck- genetic black self
Sandy Doe- carries REW and self

Thats the simple breakdown, and thats a nice litter, I would have been happy with the diversity. Now some of those blacks could really be steels, how old is the litter? Steels appear black when young, then start to 'steel' from the belly up, I think mine were 5-7 weeks old before I really noticed it. That would make your REW a genetic Steel instead of a genetic black. Wait and see, it'll be fun!!


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## laughaha (Mar 4, 2008)

So what made my gold tipped steels? And what color should I breed my two girls to?


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## pfaubush (Aug 17, 2009)

My sandy has steel, white, light gray, black, and of course sandy in her ped. The REW buck has black, light gray, steel, and white in his. I no longer have the buck, but have a fawn. Now, I don't know if I should keep the fawn or find another color. Ah, geez.

This litter is only a week old, today. I guess waiting to see what we have will be a lot of fun!


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