# Banding. Is it cruel?



## Diana/KY (Jan 5, 2003)

I have a buckling, 8 wks old, that I plan to make a wether. He was born with a short, weak leg and was dragging it from time to time. I watched and watched him to see if he was in pain. He didn't seem to be, but one day I came home from work to find blood on the stump. I took him to the vet to be put down, but the vet said, "give him a while. I've seen animals born this way and eventually they form a callous and are fine." Sure enough, he developed a callous on the leg and hes doing great. He's as ornery and lively as the rest of the kids. I plan to wether him and keep him as a companion for my buck. I bought the banding tool and elastic bands...and now I'm feeling sick about it :waa: Is it as cruel as it seems. I'm thinking I'll take him to a vet to be castrated, like a dog would be, but I've heard the anesthesia can be quite dangerous to a goat. What do you all do?


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## GoldenWood Farm (May 31, 2003)

I my self have not castrated my goat I have my friend do my goats :haha: . I am to chicken in thinking I would do it wrong.

She gives them a shot of banamine before hand to help with the pain. I have banded all my wethers and it didn't bother them one bit. They where sore for a day or two but then right back to normal.

I my self don't find it cruel. But thats my opinion.

MotherClucker


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## AnnaS (Nov 29, 2003)

I just banded 3 six week old babies. They spend about an hour getting up and lying down with occasional yells, more annoyance than pain. But it obviously isn't much fun for them.
If your vet has any livestock experience at all, he can castrate your buckling with just a local anesthesia. That's how horses are gelded and most livestock C-sections are done.
Locals are not a problems with goats, it the general anesthesia- putting them under- that can be dangerous to any ruminant.


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## Misty (May 29, 2005)

Band them. It is summer, the flies are out and it would have more of a chance of getting infected if you cut him. I have only a few head, but my cousin runs several head of spanish/boer cross. One year they castrated and had several deaths to ruptured intestines (hernia). When they banded, no problems. Banding is now their preferred method.

I wait until 12 weeks to band due to the fact that their urinary system needs to mature a little. They say it helps with urinary calculi...Knock on wood and praise God, I have not had a case of that yet.


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## Misty (May 29, 2005)

Band them. It is summer, the flies are out and it would have more of a chance of getting infected if you cut him. I have only a few head, but my cousin runs several head of spanish/boer cross. One year they castrated and had several deaths to ruptured intestines (hernia). When they banded, no problems. Banding is now their preferred method.

I wait until 12 weeks to band due to the fact that their urinary system needs to mature a little. They say it helps with urinary calculi...Knock on wood and praise God, I have not had a case of that yet.
www.geocities.com/buckshotboers2003


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## marytx (Dec 4, 2002)

We also band, and have had no problems with it. They only seem to be annoyed with it the first day, then they are back to bouncing around.
Personally, we do it a little earlier, though. In my own opinion, 8 weeks is plenty old, and would be more easily done than with on older animal.
BTW, be sure you get both balls in the band, and give tetanus antitoxin if he is not up to date on his tetanus shots.
mary


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## trixiwick (Jun 9, 2004)

I'm weighing in with the pro-banding folks. It's easy to do and doesn't appear to be especially traumatic. My kids baaa for a moment, then hobble away a little crookedly, then go back to playing. Good luck with your lucky little boy!


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## homebirtha (Feb 19, 2004)

What about a burdizo? We're still debating how to handle this issue when the time comes.


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## JoyKelley (Jan 7, 2005)

I am sure it goes well for most people but MY neighbor banded my first baby boy and it was a horrible experience, didn't go well, took over 6 weeks and was very painful , ripped off finally, bad bad bad time all around. ( he ended up dying shortly after this due to urinary cacluli ) I took the next three boys to the vet and had them neutered under a local pain killer , the vet sews up the sack so there isn't risk of infection and gives them tetnus shots. It was worth every single solitary penny to have the vet do it .


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## Misty (May 29, 2005)

I guess for one goat you could go throught the trouble, but for 50-500 head, it isn't feasable. I don't like my goats given anesthesia. There have been deaths due to it.


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## JoyKelley (Jan 7, 2005)

buckshotboers said:


> I guess for one goat you could go throught the trouble, but for 50-500 head, it isn't feasable. QUOTE]
> 
> Absolutley, mine are only pets and I am not trying to make a living off of them


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## Michael W. Smith (Jun 2, 2002)

I don't actually band them myself, but take them to my friend's who does it. I usually hold him in my arms, while my friend's husband bands him. Usually you hear one "Baaaa" - sometimes nothing at all. After about an hour, they must not feel anything, as mine are running around like nothing ever happened.

I think it's alot less stressful than taking to a vet, and certainly alot cheaper.


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## starjj (May 2, 2005)

I use to band my bucklings all the time. I never noticed any pain or undue discomfort from it in any of them just don't band way up against the skin at the top. I banded a calf once and got the band way up against his skin and it caused a sore.


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## Patty0315 (Feb 1, 2004)

There is pain for a min then they go numb. I usually don't have them off feed for more than a day. Give them there CDT. When the vet gelded one of our stallions I was worried with the flys and infection. He says its the best time to do it as it keeps them moving. He also did not stitch at all.


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## Farmgirl2005 (Jan 16, 2005)

I have personally done this... now i felt terrible for weeks... and they seem to have a problem with it the first few minites then go back to playin and the normal routine.. i also gave mine ltos of treats before and after...im gald i did it though because i would hate to have anyother couple bucks around here 
Lyn


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## Diana/KY (Jan 5, 2003)

Sounds like banding is done by quite a few! I still haven't made up my mind what to do yet, but I appreciate all of your opinions very, very much. Thanks!


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## BamaSuzy (May 10, 2002)

Several goat folks have told me that if you band too young you are stifling the goat's urinary tract system, just like when dogs and cats are fixed too early they usually have urinary tract problems as they get older....we just lost a beloved cat because of this....he was fixed way too early when he was at a Birmingham shelter....

Our little goat, Stormie, will be fixed by our vet when he is between the ages of two and three months....the closer to three months the better...

I have heard too many nightmares about banding....one goat woman told me "gee it only hurts for about 24 hours...."......I just can't imagine her having something around one of her private parts and having it tighten and having it hurt "for only 24 hours...."

Our vet agrees with me and is very reasonably priced if you take the goat to him for the operation...


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## marytx (Dec 4, 2002)

I don't believe she meant that it hurts for 24 hours. They will show some occassional discomfort for about that long.
mary


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## homebirtha (Feb 19, 2004)

I was just looking through "Raising Goats: The Backyard Dairy Alternative" and he explains how to castrate the goat yourself, and has pictures. It sounds and looks pretty darn easy, especially when it's done in the first 10 days. I'm thinking maybe we'll have the vet do the first one here while I watch, then do the others ourselves. It's much more minor than I thought it was.


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## computerchick (Jun 24, 2005)

homebirtha said:


> I was just looking through "Raising Goats: The Backyard Dairy Alternative" and he explains how to castrate the goat yourself, and has pictures. It sounds and looks pretty darn easy, especially when it's done in the first 10 days. I'm thinking maybe we'll have the vet do the first one here while I watch, then do the others ourselves. It's much more minor than I thought it was.


It's not that hard - and less complications. We used to do the lambs all the time at Va Tech - I'll come up and help - maybe even cut kiddies in exchange for broiler processing?? ROFL

Andrea


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## chas (Dec 12, 2004)

homebirtha said:


> What about a burdizo? We're still debating how to handle this issue when the time comes.


 I've used a medium sized burdizo for the last three years and would'nt go back to banding.You hear the cord part and it's all over and no open wounds.And no infections to deal with.I do it at three months to avoid urinary problems,which thankfully I've never experenced  
Chas


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## Vicki McGaugh TX Nubians (May 6, 2002)

Take all the "Don't castrate till older so it will help with Urinary Calculi" with a grain of salt, better yet a grain of ammonium chloride! The worst problems with Urinary calculi are in intact bucks, so how does the above theory work with that? They have the most mature urinary tracts!

Back when my daughter was younger she actaully did a paper on this. One buckling was castrated at birth the brother left intact. At butcher in the fall, both bladders and urethras were removed and taken to our vet, who looked at them A and B under the microscope, the vet could not tell the difference between the diameter or the length of either. She won her 6th grade science fair exhibit judged by Texas A&M, we only wish someone would do this on a grander scale. It certainly would put it to rest if it is even true about waiting. I don't make wethers anymore, so the point here is moot anyway.

But no it is not cruel. Vicki


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## nappy (Aug 17, 2003)

Another thought on banding. Our bucklings are Alpine. If we wait until they are two months old, it becomes difficult to draw the larger testicles through the band so they are done at about 7 weeks. No problems here with infection, intolerable/prolonged pain or failure to properly castrate. Perhaps Pygmies or Nigerian Dwarfs can be done at a later age? 

Nappy


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## fellini123 (Feb 2, 2003)

We band our pygmies at about 2 months and they are fine. Usually right after the banding they run around and will sit down and try to lick the area. This goes on for about 5 minutes and then they forget about it and are running around just fine. Never had anyone go off feed or anything.
Alicein Virginia


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## natybear (Mar 26, 2005)

For our Nubians we band, disbud, and give CAE/Tetnus vaccinations all on the same day, when they are 1 month old. We bottle feed so all we have to do is shove a bottle in their mouths after it all and they forget they had anything done. I don't think there is anything wrong or even to painful about banding. We always make sure the nipples are not caught and spray iodine on the area ever once and a while to help reduce chance of infection. It is really easy, quick, and we have never had any problems with our process.


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## okgoatgal2 (May 28, 2002)

i castrate and it takes about 15-30 seconds. it is so easy and so fast. the way i do it, the wound drains and i've never had any infection (not to say that it wouldn't happen-i just never had any get infected) all it takes is alcohol or iodine, sharp scissors or scapel, and furazone powder or spray (furall)


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## PLPP (May 24, 2005)

In my experience goats do not handle Anesthisia well. I would band them and get on with it.


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## moonspinner (Jul 2, 2002)

Joy, it sounds to me that your neighbor most likely did not do a correct banding procedure. He may have gotten the band up too tight on the belly where bad things can happen. At any rate, this is generally a very safe and uneventful procedure. Some of my bucks do some crying for an hour or so and will lie around for a time. I do this procedure right before their bedtime and it works out great. By the next morning they're fine. Though they may still walk awkwardly for awhile. But for just your one boy I would recommend having your vet do a surgical castration. It's quick, easy, not too expensive and just a local anesthetic which is no problem. 
Lynn


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## billygoatridge (Feb 12, 2004)

We have used the burdizzo clamps for 20 + years and wouldn't do it any other way. They only cry While you are crushing the cord(30-60 seconds) and there is no blood. We've had friends that band theirs that occassionally don't sluff off entirely and get infected. We clamp around 10 weeks. Whether it prevents urinary calculi, I can't proove it but we've never lost a wether to it. One advantage of delayed wethering is they gain more muscle. I've noticed kids wethered at a week or two old almost always have a more feminine doe appearence than ones done later at two or three months old.


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