# Solar Fencing Question



## DenMacII (Aug 16, 2008)

I have a basic Gallagher .7 joule 12v electric fence system.

There is less than 3000 feet of poly wire which is not all in use at one time.

There is a 70w Solec solar panel to charge a single 12v deep cycle marine battery. 

There is a 6ah Morningstar Sun Saver charge controller. 

The original battery I purchased back in March was a basic 12v 34ah deep cycle marine battery that I purchased at an auto parts store. This battery has deteriorated quickly, and is now not holding a full charge for a week, when it should maintain a charge for 4 weeks even without the solar panel.

I am planning on purchasing a Concorde Sun-Xtender 12v 56ah AGM battery. Though it might be more than it needs, I have also bid on a Morningstar 10ah Sun Saver Charge Controller.

Does anyone here have any other suggestions on how to keep this system running efficiently?

Thanks for your input!

Dennis


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## mightybooboo (Feb 10, 2004)

Morningstar 10ah Sun Saver Charge Controller.
===================================
Have it,excellent product.


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## wy_white_wolf (Oct 14, 2004)

Your battery is undersized. Most likely it has been destroyed from discharging too deeply. Is this your fencer?

http://www.gallagherusa.com/electric-fencing/permanent.component.aspx?mktprodid=5681



> ....Battery consumption: 500 milliamps on 12 volts....


.5A * 24hr = 12AH daily load 

to be safe you need a battery of about 90AH

12AH * 1.5 (effieciency rating of average battery system) * 5 days = 90AH battery

12AH * 12V * 1.5 = 216WH is what you panel needs to produce daily. 

I'd guess that the 70W panel is about right for NoCa area as you winter monthly low may be around 2.5 hours insolation.

(IMHO) Unless you live in an area that gets lots of real cold temperatures (-25F or colder) in the winter an AGM wouldn't be worth the added expense. But then if you are in an area that gets that cold the panel is most likely undersized by about 30%. A 100W panel would be better.


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## wy_white_wolf (Oct 14, 2004)

I just checked and think you panel may also be on the small size.

Check here http://www.gaisma.com/en/dir/us-ca-country.html for the lowest monthly avergae insolation in your area and divide that into 216. That will give you the minimum panel size you should consider.


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## mightybooboo (Feb 10, 2004)

Yup,model number would help.


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## DenMacII (Aug 16, 2008)

Cool website! Based on the closest city I could find, your formula shows 117w. I do have another panel I can add to this set up which would put me at 140w.

The unit I have is the B60 model, a 0.6 joule, 12v energizer. http://www.scruggsfarm.com/ZoomImage.aspx?productID=G351504

Leave to me to jack up the power by 0.1 joule!!! Always overstating the facts - good thing I didn't say I have the Binford 7000 joule model. It'll kick ya back 10 feet just by looking at it from across the pasture!!!

When I first set up the system, it worked great. I keep a battery minder at the battery, so I can see the amount of charge at any given time. During daylight hours it would kick up over 13v and be steady in the high 12s overnight. That continued to change over time to where the battery is not charging real strong during the day, only to about 12.75 during the day with a drop to 12.25 once the sun goes down. I have another very similar solar set up in at our pig pen, and am not having this problem.

With such a small power demand, and decent day light most days, with a panel facing SW, is there something I am missing besides the poor quality battery issue? The 6ah charge controller shouldn't be hindering the battery charging, should it?

Thanks for your insight.


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## mightybooboo (Feb 10, 2004)

Thats odd as the b-60 per manufacturer operates on a 5 watt panel.As does the B-100,and yours operates/ or can... on d cell batts??????? Is that the one?

You have 15 TIMES the amt of panel called for.I have a similar system and it can run days with out a charge and has a 5-6 inch panel!And its never gone dead due to low charge ever on me.Ran mine on 2 acres.

You have a charging /battery problem.Or b-60 problem(Check the draw but dont ask me how).But I doubt seriously your panel is undersized for the B-60 per what the manufacturer claims will run it. 

I like your upgrade battery/controller idea,I would get a 90 ah battery or abouts though (car sized 12 v deep cycle),it will love that 70 watt panel that hopefully is performing at spec,couldnt find a solec 70 but the others by solec in 12v have a Voc of 21.3 volts.Time to volt meter everything and be sure specs are met from controller and panel ,and do it without that battery you have now,and without your meter(is it hardwired in),something is amiss and most certainly the battery is toasted if it drops to 12.25 its gone.

Guess you already know this,eh?

Hopefully all thats wrong is it was a crappy battery and it lost a cell.

BTW,are you in snow country? Much freezing?


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## wy_white_wolf (Oct 14, 2004)

How old is the battery?

I haven't been able to find the power specs on the B60, but it looks like the one I listed (B700) takes about 10x the power as the B60 (7 joules vrs. 0.6 joules). That's making me wonder if the battery/panel combo wasn't so far oversized that the battery didn't cycle deeply enough (less than 5%) that the plates never cleaned the lead oxide off and it clumped up.

Did the battery ever freeze or run so low on electrolite that the plates showed? How often did you have to add water? was it distilled water?


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## DenMacII (Aug 16, 2008)

Thanks for the input! 

I do check the water level each time I pull the battery for a hard wire charge. The battery was purchased new in March, and was charged (topped off really) by me before placing into use. I have added some distilled water on two occasions, but never could I see the plates. This past weekend the water levels in each cell were fine.

We have not had anything close to a freeze yet this fall, and even when we eventually do, we won't get real deep freezes. (Upper 20's overnight back into the high 30s/low 40's during the day)

Maybe what I'll try and do is swap the batteries between my two set ups, and see if the problem follows the battery. The solar set up at our pig pen is currently running on my wife's old car battery - it was not turning over very effectivly any more, but has worked fine in the pig pen for three months now. That set up pretty much provides us light in the evenings, so there is not a constant draw. If the battery acts the same at the pig pen, or the set up kills the battery at the cattle fencing, I'll know which way to go.


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## wy_white_wolf (Oct 14, 2004)

Sounds like a plan to me.

Might charge the battery and have it load tested before swapping them.


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## mightybooboo (Feb 10, 2004)

Or check the spec gravity of the cells,you should have one of those either way.


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## mightybooboo (Feb 10, 2004)

I would utilize that panel to the fullest,at least one large battery,maybe 2. Keep em charged wont be a problem and keep some extra stored power around,walk light,motion light,that sort of thing.

I hate to think of that big panel just running that small fence unit.

Did you win the morningstar auction? That has that nice little lighting circuit on it,with the timers?.Really cool.

FWIW,the PWM Morningstars were developed back in 1996 with help from DOE money and Sandia labs,money well spent

http://www.osti.gov/bridge/purl.cov...98938904BB26?purl=/402426-htwdT8/webviewable/

PDF link on that page about its history and testing,fine little device for sure


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## 12vman (Feb 17, 2004)

I wonder if that 'ol Solec is providing enough voltage to charge the battery properly.


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## mightybooboo (Feb 10, 2004)

12vman said:


> I wonder if that 'ol Solec is providing enough voltage to charge the battery properly.


Me too,I'd like to think its still pumping out the juice,ive never met a finer product than a solar panel.


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## DenMacII (Aug 16, 2008)

Saturday I was able to swap the batteries first thing in the morning, and by mid day it was obvious that the problem is at the fence energizer. 

The battery now at the pig pen was getting a good charge while the battery now at the charger was losing charge. by mid-afternoon the fence charger battery was down to 12.55v so I disconnected everything. I checked the charge coming from the panel and it pegged the meter, so I hooked the battery into the panel, but left it disconnected from the fence energizer. The battery recouped to 12.75v, but the pig pen battery was at 14.05v at the height of afternoon sun. 

I did win the Morningstar 10ah charge controller ($45.00 delivered-pretty good price!), so my next test is to swap charge controllers and see if that helps the battery to charge more efficiently.  Would a 6ah charge controller not allow enough charge through to the battery?

If that does not work, I'll have to test the fence energizer and try to figure out why it is needing way more power then it's manual says it needs.

Today is a dark, rainy day so I won't be doing much outdoors! Thanks for all your help!


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## 12vman (Feb 17, 2004)

I would be curious to know the voltage of the panel when it's not connected to anything. (open circuit)


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## mightybooboo (Feb 10, 2004)

the manual if you need it..
www.morningstarcorp.com/en/support/library/SS.IOM.01.EN.pdf

Need another controller? 44 bucks new
Looks the price on the non MPPT's have really dropped.Doesnt matter,you will like that controller,its a workhorse
http://www.affordable-solar.com/morningstar.sunsaver.10.12v.charge.controller.htm


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## DenMacII (Aug 16, 2008)

Don't really have much of a progress update as I am scrambling to finish a small barn for our few head of cattle. The end of the barn will have a store room and I will move the energizer and batteries there with the panel either on the room, or a post near by. 

Once I get that set up, I'll have a better update - and hopefully toss in a few pictures.

Thanks again for all your help so far - it's keeping me in the right direction.


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## DenMacII (Aug 16, 2008)

I am continueing to monitor my situation, but last week I swapped out the 5a charge controller with the 10ah charge controller, disconnected all the wiring, checked every contact, and reconnected everything. I ran the set up, just without hooking to the fence energizer for the week and found the battery fully charged (as high as 15v at the height of midday sun). I connected the fence energizer to the system on Saturday, but left it disconnected from the fence line. On Sunday the battery was still maintaining it's full charge.

Could the problem have been with the 5ah charge controller? or maybe with a bad connection in the line?

My goal is to have the entire system back on line by the end of the weekend - weather permitting!


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## wy_white_wolf (Oct 14, 2004)

I can't see the problem being a bad/loose connection. That wouldn't have caused the accellerated discharge in the evening.

The controller could have had a bad diode letting reverse current through the panel when it wasn't producing or was this an older CC that needed a blocking diode added to the wiring?


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