# Velveteen Lops???



## celticfarmgal (Feb 25, 2008)

My friend asked to borrow my mini rex buck for use on her holland lop does said she was making Velveteen lops have you ever heard of these and do they have rex fur on a lop???? if anyone has any pics of some please post em I can't seem to picture one in my mind


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## celticfarmgal (Feb 25, 2008)

and also how many generations before it makes a velveteen lop???


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## SFM in KY (May 11, 2002)

The Velveteen Lop is an "established" breed at this point though not yet approved by ARBA, though they are going through that process. They are descended from an original cross using Mini-Rex and English Lops (not Mini Lops). 

You can't get a "Velveteen Lop" from a first-generation cross using a Mini Rex and a Mini Lop ... it requires (I think) a minimum of 4 generations away from that first F1 cross.

I've been looking at them myself and here is one of the websites with information and photos:

http://www.velveteenlop.net


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## Beaniemom (May 25, 2007)

No reason you couldn't use Mini's (or French for that matter) you'd just have to come up with a different name for them is all. I was considering getting a French maybe for my own project, I think if I did them I'd be doing it mostly for the pet market, wish they were a little smaller than 6ish pounds though. I don't know if the long ears would be a drawback for the pet market (which is why I was considering a different Lop for the cross)

They just were approved for their first presentation, I don't know if that means they can be shown or not though. Looks like they've had alot of trouble getting the breed to pass though!

I'd love it if someone could explain how exactly the cross works, I think when you cross the Lops with the Rex you end up with something with no Rex fur (don't know if they would have Lop ears even) I'm just not sure what you do from then on, try to set the fur and then breed back to the Lops?

How big is her Holland and your MR? I might be concerned about the size of the kits for her, she may be better of to use a MR doe and a Holland buck?


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## celticfarmgal (Feb 25, 2008)

Her Holland is pushing the envelope for breed standards sizewize and our buck mr chocolate chip(don't ask my kids named him) is on the small size for a mini rex I think she would be ok as far as size goes on having the kits I just thought she was making the velveteen lop stuff up  :shrug:


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## SFM in KY (May 11, 2002)

Beaniemom said:


> I'd love it if someone could explain how exactly the cross works, I think when you cross the Lops with the Rex you end up with something with no Rex fur (don't know if they would have Lop ears even) I'm just not sure what you do from then on, try to set the fur and then breed back to the Lops?


I'm not positive how it was handled specifically with regard to the Velveteen Lops, but I've done this kind of crossbreeding in horses/ponies.

With the first cross, the F1 cross ... and with specific traits from each parent, you would get some offspring with Rex coats and no lop ears, some with lop ears and no Rex coats and some with both Rex coats and lop ears.

You would continue with the F1 crosses until you had enough "unrelated" F1 crosses with both Rex coats and lop ears to start the F2 crosses ... rabbits that had the desired Rex coats and the lop ears. 

You would get, again, some offspring in this F2 cross that lacked either the Rex coat or the lop ears, but more that had both and you would select again for the Rex coated, lop eared rabbits.

Generally by the 3rd and 4th generation where you are working with the animals that have been selected for the desired traits ... and not using any of the offspring that do NOT have both traits, you are getting into the range where you have "fixed" the type and you should not get many that lack coat or lop ears at that point.

Again ... I'm not sure that this protocol has been followed exactly with the Velveteen Lops ... or if somewhere along the line they had to breed back to either the Mini Rex or the English Lop in an intervening generation to add "more" coat or "more" Lop ... but in general, that is how crossbreeding is handled if you are trying to establish a "new" breed.


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## Beaniemom (May 25, 2007)

Ah, I understand that. Problem is, the F1 generation won't have a Rex coat, thats the first thing you loose when you do a cross (or so I've heard!) I know when I crossed my SF the SF coat was the first to go (along with most of the silvering gene)


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## SFM in KY (May 11, 2002)

I'm not at all familiar with crossbreeding ... I do have a rabbit now that is half Rex and half Californian and her coat is not "quite" like a purebred Rex coat but it is more "Rexish" than Californian. It may be that they would take the coats that were closest to Rex and breed those ... they may have done another cross back to Mini Rex to re-establish the Rex coat ... I'm not sure.

I haven't found anyone to actually talk to that seems to know what the crosses were following the original F1 cross between the Mini Rex and English Lop. Selecting from the F1 crosses and breeding those togther for the F2 cross is the most common method ... but you can have back-crosses to strengthen particular traits that aren't strong enough in the first cross. 

I'm just not sure what the pattern was except with the F1 cross ... or at least that is the one I'm getting the same story from everyone on anyway.


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