# Grass Fed Beef Pasture and Harvest Time



## Allen W (Aug 2, 2008)

I was reading here about grass fed beef remembered eating a couple of just past two year old heifers off grass. They were sent to the butchers in early June off good quality warm season native grass. 
How much does the grass growth stage effect the quality of the animals meat? Are grass fed animals strictly on grass or planted forage sources; such as winter wheat and rye, forage sorghum or cow peas or other forages in your area?
I am trying to get an idea of how wide the harvest window is and how it can be stretched.


----------



## agmantoo (May 23, 2003)

Allen,
I feed grass year around. My cows have calves year around. I make no hay. My calves sell in the top price range at the local auction where the calves are ultimately grouped to travel to the mid west to finish in a feed lot. My cull cows go to burger locally and they bring a decent price. I could harvest a grass fed animal any month of the year. My wife does not like the yellow fat that is put on by grass feeding. The wife has a lot of preconceived ideas that I cannot alter or influence a change. She does the shopping. We buy our meat at the supermarket. I do hunt and we, mostly me, eat a lot of venison. What can I say?


----------



## Wags (Jun 2, 2002)

Your animals get no hay at all? What sort of set up are you using for their pasture?


----------



## agmantoo (May 23, 2003)

Wags,
I have the farm divided into many paddocks. The cattle are rotated into the paddocks frequently. During the months when the grass is not growing I feed stockpiled (ungrazed and stored as it grew fescue grass) forage in the paddocks. This is very efficient and allows me to be a low cost producer. I would think it would work in your area. Rotational grazing is more a management tool than a hay/pasture feeding system. Initially it is difficult to break the old practices. It does work! Most people are reluctant to make the change but high priced fuel and fertilizer will influence those that remain in the cattle business. As farmers we have been sold a bill of goods by those that provide services to farmers. Farmer were for years influenced into producing volume. With volume they were convinced that profits would climb. It did not happen. Risk and debt climbed. What farmers need to consider IMO is how to increase profit!


----------



## Karin L (Oct 5, 2006)

Allen W said:


> I was reading here about grass fed beef remembered eating a couple of just past two year old heifers off grass. They were sent to the butchers in early June off good quality warm season native grass.
> How much does the grass growth stage effect the quality of the animals meat? Are grass fed animals strictly on grass or planted forage sources; such as winter wheat and rye, forage sorghum or cow peas or other forages in your area?
> I am trying to get an idea of how wide the harvest window is and how it can be stretched.


How much? A lot. The nutrients in the grass depend on the quality and quantity of weight put on an animal on grass. CP (crude protein), energy (CHOs or carbohydrates) and CF (crude fibre), plus macrominerals and microminerals are these nutrients. Grass with high CP and energy and relatively low CF are good for putting muscle mass on feeders. This is when the grass is in its vegetative stage, past its 5-leaf stage, from when it is 10 to 12 inches long (start of grazing) to when cattle are taken off when it is grazed down to at least 2 to 3 inches. When grass gets into its flowering stage, forage quality declines, because all the energy is being put into the seed head to produce seed, thus shutting down the photosynthesis production in the leaves. CP declines, energy declines, and CF increases because of stemmy material produced when seed head shoots up. When the seed heads start popping up, cattle will tend to not eat the stemmy plant material, and they get more picky as what they want to eat (more time looking and less time eating) as they favour the tasty tender leaves over the course tasteless stems. Cattle on grass in the vegetative stage spend more time eating than looking where they can take a bite, thus the more weight gain on vegetative material than stemmy material. So the best time to get good weight on animals is when grass is in their vegetative stage.

Grass-fed animals can be put on legume-grass pastures, and they can be put on supplemental feilds of corn, millet, oats, barley, lentils, and/or peas or cover crops of an annual planted over a perennial plant (like clover or some species of grass). They aren't fed the actual grain (the seed) part of the plant, they're in there to eat the leaves, stems, and possibly the seed heads of the crop they are rotated in.

You know how wide the harvest window for grazing cattle can be? 365 days of the year. I'm not kidding, Agmantoo does year-round grazing, and there are some folks up north in western canuckleville doing it too: read more here at http://www.areca.ab.ca/sitewyze/files/YearRoundGrazingFinal5[1].pdf

Now I hope that long post of mine helped made things more clear for you.


----------



## Wags (Jun 2, 2002)

Thanks Agmantoo for the info and Karin for the link.

Agmantoo - so if I'm understanding you leave a paddock or two that is ungrazed and then turn the cattle out in it so it acts as "standing hay"? I've been watching the Gene Sollock video's on YouTube, and would like to try this. But I'm wondering if it is even feasible with only two Dexter cows and a miniature donkey and a total of just over 2.5 acres of pasture.


----------



## wstevenl (Mar 26, 2008)

We've only got about 5 Dexters and we're doing it. We are starting on totally new pasture this year so it works well on most of it, but some areas have really gotten away from us and are really weedy. I just started making their paddocks alot smaller and they are doing pretty well eating the leaves off of the pigweed and lambsquarter (also eating most of the seed heads that they can reach) and are eating all the taller grasses like johnson grass and foxtail down to a reasonable height. It's harder to gauge how well they are eating the bermuda (the only grass that we actually planted in this area) because their is alot left over after 1 day so I'm rotating my horses on it every other day. So the cows are getting about .14 acres per day and then the 2 horses get twice that, every other day to try and eat down more of the Bermuda. By next year we are going to have to get more cows because we've got 10 acres total (only 2 in bermuda, etc. ) and we can't rotate through it all near fast enough. 

On the idea of when it is best to graze the grass, Salatin has been writing about grazing taller grasses more at the stage that you would cut corn for silage (high sugar) it works well for him in mob grazing.


----------



## agmantoo (May 23, 2003)

I have numerous paddocks of various sizes. I do a lot of expanding and reducing of some of the paddocks sizes by utilizing the conductive twine. If it is dry and the grasses are not growing rapidly I enlarge some of the paddocks with the temporary electrified twine. If the grass is lush I decrease the size of the paddocks in the same manner. From experience I know that I have to provide the dormant standing grass for 90 days to cover my winter feeding. Since the drought hit in late '06 I have learned that I may need to plant some rye grass to augment the established grass. There are no exact rules to follow. What is certain is that I have to feed 100 plus head of cattle for not less the the 90 days mentioned. I have as a security blanket 50 bales of hay in dry storage. This is exactly 16 and 2/3 days of hay. My animals need approximately 3000 lbs of grass per day. In good growing conditions I feed 7/10ths of an acre per day. If you want to determine how much area you need per day do this. Cordon off a small area and keep expanding it to where the area is consumed by YOUR cattle in 45 minutes. Double that. The results are the amount of area you need to allocate to your herd during the conditions that are prevailing at the time of the test. During drought you will have to allow more and during times of abnormal abundance you can allocate less. Regardless of what you are grazing and where it is located always feed the tallest forage first. Do not deviate from this. If areas get too tall clip the pasture. Keep the grass growing, that is key. People perceive that fescue is a cool season low quality endophyte infested forage. For me, it is my money maker and the cattle like it. With moisture it will grow in hot weather, during drought it will go dormant and will recover when there is moisture, it stockpiles really good, and with some legumes intermixed in the pastures the endophyte is not a problem. I have fescue pastures that have not been reseeded in 13 years.


----------



## MayLOC (Sep 20, 2006)

Allen W-

Not sure where you are located. I know different areas really differ in grasses, conditions, ect...

We are in SE Colorado and we graze year round here. We keep a good amount of hay on hand ea. yr. but only feed it during the winter _if_ we get a big snow and the cows can't dig to the grass like in blizzard conditions and only until they can get to the grass again. We do supplement some with cake during the winter months to keep the protein/fat levels higher.

We take our grass-fed beef to butcher the end of the summer growing season usually around Oct. depending on when winter sets in. We have never and in our area would never consider doing grass-fed beef off-season. We feel the optimal time to butcher here is when the beef are at their prime after finishing on the summer grasses and want to butcher when they are still at a point of good gaining. Now if you were going to finish on grain, that would be a whole different story and would allow for a lot of variation. And depending on what part of the country you are in you may be a whole different ball game then we are here and able to run things much differently.

I grew up over the mountains from where I am now (west) and it was much different. almost 9000 ft. there (around 6000 here at home) and we put up hay ea. summer and fed it to the cows all winter and that is what the whole area did. And in the summer grazing months the a.u./acre was just a hair of what it is here. Whole different ball game.

We also rotational graze. But here we figure about 55-60 acres / a.u. We rest pastures and sort of have certain pastures for certain times of the year. Like during spring calving months when we get the most snow/blizzards, we have them in pastures with more cedars and areas of protection along the river, and utilize more open pastures in the summer months, ect...


----------



## carellama (Nov 12, 2007)

Investing in the fencing and the grass seed/ I take it that this is an investment that 
pays off?


----------



## agmantoo (May 23, 2003)

It is essential in populated areas to know where the cattle are so the fence is a must. Controlling what the cattle have access to is important to maximize the use of the forage so fences are necessary to utilize the pastures. Weeds are not productive forage crops. If they were instead of being called weeds the plants would be referred to as pasture plants and propagated accordingly. Plants that the cattle can thrive on and plants that thrive on the agriculture practices on mankind are the plants that are sought after. Unless these plants are the dominant volunteer variety growing in your pasture the only way that I am aware to have these plants is to seed the pastures to them. Yes, it pays. I have one cow/calf pair to approximately 1 1/2 acres over the period of a year. The calf will not be there all year as it will be marketed at 550 to 600 lbs.


----------



## wstevenl (Mar 26, 2008)

Agmantoo, I'm not real proud of our pigweed and lambsquarter but it came up so we're dealing with it. 
In our other 8 acres we drilled alfalfa, orchard, and ladino clover plus foxtail, some johnsongrass, and other grasses that I haven't identified came up. The alfalfa is by far doing better than any other forage and because we eased into it the cows seemed to do just fine grazing it (they didn't bloat). I was wondering if anyone here has had any experience stockpiling alfalfa? It will also have clover, a little orchardgrass, etc. in it. If we do stockpile it, how low should we graze it when we finally do get to it?

In a week or two we plan to sow some Max Q fescue in all of the areas that the orchard grass didn't too too well and then we'll just keep spreading until our little 25lb bag is gone. We plan on seeding an area and then grazing over that area to push the seeds in.


----------



## agmantoo (May 23, 2003)

wstevenl
If you plant within a couple of weeks I would let the animals eat the area planted to the fescue down to approximately 2 to 3 inches. This will give the newly planted seed a chance to emerge without a lot of competition. The downside is that the fescue will not have a lot of time for the roots to establish as you will be grazing the new growth along with what old growth you have as stockpiled feed. I prefer for new grass to be a year old prior to grazing as the roots will store some nutrients and the roots will be established deep enough to prevent the cattle from pulling the plants out of the ground along with the root mass. Are you certain that the 25lb bag will be enough seed?


----------



## wstevenl (Mar 26, 2008)

The 25lb bag wouldn't go far over the 8 acres as we originally planned to over seed it all. But because of the cost of the seed and how the pasture turned out we're now just going to over seed certain areas. A few spots in one half of the field and a large area on one side of the other half. I had a guy that I work with drill the whole pasture, supposedly evenly. Either he didn't stay consistent with depth and rate or the soil was just alot different it different areas. Our new pasture was in row crops last year and was just grated with the rest of the field for flood irrigating. So, some places had ground that was scraped off and some areas were filled with loose dirt to level it out more. The whole thing was cultivated before we planted but it could have still been enough difference to effect the depth of seed I guess. 

I was really wondering if anyone had stock piled alfalfa and orchard grass. I know that when it gets cold, our horses at least, won't touch bermuda that has turned brown. I'm just hoping that something similar doesn't happen with what I'm trying to stockpile.


----------



## agmantoo (May 23, 2003)

wstevenl,
I read last evening regarding the Max Q. Part of the reading and advertising was very interesting. I certainly question some of Pennington's charts and I find the charts inconclusive. For example, their performance of the product when reporting the dollar advantages only takes into consideration of the land rent for 6 months. Where are you going to find a landholder that will rent for a 1/2 year? Additionally there was no statements on the amounts of fertilizer used on comparison test plots. There was no mention on whether the sample plots were irrigated or not. Too many variables to really support Pennington's arguments IMO. My suggestion is to plant conventional Ky31 and then plant clover with it. The clover will offset the Ky31 problems and the performance of the combination will exceed the Max Q when considering the costs. Virginia Tech varifies this. Do some research. I know for a fact that an ag agent promotes one type of fescue and plants another for his use. He does what he is instructed to do. You are aware that Pennington wants you to kill the other grasses prior to planting the Max Q? It is your dime, I just felt the need to bring this to your attention.


----------



## wstevenl (Mar 26, 2008)

I'm aware that they promote a monoculture of MaxQ... we're not going to do that. 
You're probably right that we could add some KY-31 and it wouldn't be enough of a %age of the pasture to cause problems. We'd like to add a fescue to the mix. A friend was looking at our pastures and thought that fescue might take over if we added it... well, he may be wrong, but if he is, we don't want KY-31 taking over, we'd rather a friendly endophyte fescue. One 25lb bag isn't going to break the bank too bad and it's already ordered so... 

Thanks for your concern. 

Have you ever stockpiled alfalfa?


----------



## agmantoo (May 23, 2003)

wstevenl 
Alfalfa is difficult to grow here due to insect problems. No, I do not grow any. I grow what I know will produce for me and survive regardless. This recent tropical storm has been the only significant rain we have had as I can recall in almost 3 years. Streams that have never in memory dried have been dust beds for wild turkeys. Ground water levels are at an all time low. However, the endophyte fescue has continued to persevere. IMO, the impact of the endophyte on the cattle is an over reaction. When I see a need to change I will. In the meanwhile I will stick to what I know works. Look at the 3rd pic in the main forum under the title Pasture/hay field help please . That is my place, all 3 pics were taken late this afternoon. Pics 1 and 2 are of my neighbors pastures. I understand that Pic 1 was planted to an endophyte free fescue but the pasture itself is not properly managed. The owner does his version of rotating the pastures but he has too few paddocks and he permits the cattle to graze too close. He has also been feeding some hay.


----------



## Allen W (Aug 2, 2008)

Just dropped in to check this had a longer reply typed out and spellcheck it and lost it. Thanks for all the replys need to go cut milo will check in later.


----------



## Cason (May 28, 2007)

Original prairie grass stockpiles well- not as good as the dreadful fescue (ha) but OK. Rotation grazing pasture management is the key to success. 
I think I'll finish one of my butcher beefs on corn beginning Sept. 1, and butcher on or about October 15. I agree with the optimum butchering time of a good finish re: summer pasture. (in our area, anyway)


----------



## Ronney (Nov 26, 2004)

An interesting thread and I'm not going to comment too much as the variation in grassland farming between New Zealand and the States will be as great as within the States.

Like Agman, my cattle are pastured 365 days of the year but they are supplementary fed during the winter, all of which is bought in. My farming regime is also somewhat different in that I run milking cows, beef and sheep. My grass too is predominantly Kykuyu which I don't have a lot of choice about and which you don't have there but it requires quite a different management strategy and can't be stockpiled. For those of you seriously considering rotational grass-farming I would strongly suggest that you follow Agman's advice and pick up on his experience. 

None of which answers your questions Allen. Yes, the grass growth will affect the quality of the meat. We kill "on the rise" i.e. when the animals have had high quality grass through the spring and early summer. And yes, over here, both beef and dairy cattle are often fed forage crops during the winter and summer. These are usually break fed into strips by the use of mobile electric fences and a forage paddock will have access to a grass paddock so that once the strip for the day has been eaten out, the cattle can move on to grass.

Agman, something in your first post interested me. You said that your wife didn't like the yellow fat that is put on through grass feeding. Given that all my stock is grass fed, the only yellow fat I ever see is that from Jersey or Jersey crosses. Everything else has white fat - and I do mean white. Now why would this be do you think? It would be easy to say that it was grass type but I doubt it. I have farmed in parts of NZ where there is no Kykuyu and the fat from grass fed cattle is still white. And if you've got any spare venison going, I'll gladly take it off your hands

Cheers,
Ronnie


----------



## Allen W (Aug 2, 2008)

agmantoo thanks for the information and the time on this post. There is only two small patches of fescue successfully planted here that I Know of. I baled one a few times it was on the river bottom in tight black soil. He planted some more but the only places it would grow was in the tight black dirt. Rye grass has been tried around not a whole lot planted, not real popular here in wheat country, too hard to get rid off. Karin L thanks for the link. May Loc I'm in northwest Okla. I probably have more in common with your conditions then Some of the others on here.
wstevenl we have always tried to get 6 to 8 inches minimum growth on alfalfa fields going into winter to build up the roots reserve for winter and then grazed it off after it froze. Cattle do pretty good on it, I wouldn't try to hold it for an extended period of time. The Bermuda and native grass would last longer stock piled. Dry cows can winter on native grass and Bermuda with some protein supplement. Watch the johnson grass As long as they are constantly on it your alright, if you put them on it when it is burnt Fromm heat and dry weather they can get prussic acid poisoning. Don't let them on it after frost until it is completely dead no suckers coming up they can get nitrate poisoning from it. If you keep it ate off or mowed under 6 inches it will starve out in 2 to 3 years.


----------



## furholler (Feb 1, 2005)

agmantoo said:


> Wags,
> I have the farm divided into many paddocks. The cattle are rotated into the paddocks frequently. During the months when the grass is not growing I feed stockpiled (ungrazed and stored as it grew fescue grass) forage in the paddocks. This is very efficient and allows me to be a low cost producer. I would think it would work in your area. Rotational grazing is more a management tool than a hay/pasture feeding system. Initially it is difficult to break the old practices. It does work! Most people are reluctant to make the change but high priced fuel and fertilizer will influence those that remain in the cattle business. As farmers we have been sold a bill of goods by those that provide services to farmers. Farmer were for years influenced into producing volume. With volume they were convinced that profits would climb. It did not happen. Risk and debt climbed. What farmers need to consider IMO is how to increase profit!


Agman, I can't tell you how much I have come to respect you and your knowledge, your wisdom is almost from the pages of the Stockman Grass Farmer, but I 'd like to ask a question. Why grow grass fed beef to sell at the sale barn when you could get a better premium on grass fed beef through direct marketing? Isn't that a good way to increase profits? It just seems that your excellent management practices are being shot in the foot by the feedlots.


----------



## agmantoo (May 23, 2003)

furholler 
That is a solid question and I have no problem answering why I sale at the sale barn. There are several reasons and I have a problem putting them in proper order. Here goes however....
Not that there is any problem with the animals I sell but I sell feeder calves. They are too small to slaughter being in the 550 lb bracket.

The sale barn pays promptly and there is never a bad check.

I do not have to interface with the public. There are no kids running around the bulls or the electric fence, climbing on the machinery. No dogs chasing the cows. No potential thief canvasing the place out. No hunter trying to determine how to get back on the farm, etc. 

I lose ownership, there is never a disgruntle customer! If an individual bought a feeder calf and did not properly care for it and it did not perform to their inexperienced expectations I do not have to give justification or appease them whatsoever.

Additionally I am a one man show. If it gets done, I do it! I do not want the interruptions of having to schedule a potential buyer into my day. I think by concentrating on the beef operation permits me to maximize the gain up to the point of sale. I get to keep the lions share of the sale price at the sale barn. I am satisfied with that and I am willing to forfeit the extra gain by not having to deal with the above mentioned situations. My manner of calving year around does not allow me to get a truck load of uniform feeders at one time. I could sell truck loads of feeder calves at a premium over the sale barn. On the other hand, if I was a smaller producer I should have more discretionary time and I possible would look at a means to increase the marketing income.


----------



## furholler (Feb 1, 2005)

agmantoo said:


> furholler
> That is a solid question and I have no problem answering why I sale at the sale barn. There are several reasons and I have a problem putting them in proper order. Here goes however....
> Not that there is any problem with the animals I sell but I sell feeder calves. They are too small to slaughter being in the 550 lb bracket.
> 
> ...



That is a fair answer. Thank you.


----------



## translplant (Sep 27, 2005)

Agman - I too search out your posts and take note of what you recommend. (More photos please!) Your comments on fescue seed definitely have me re-thinking buying into the MaxQ hype this fall. 

Your reasoning of why you do what you do is priceless...I like to measure the worth-while-ness of any task by "how much would I pay to NOT have to do this" (seriously) and you seem to have that figured down pat.


----------



## Razorback21 (May 13, 2003)

I agree with Agmantoo: we have done bucket calves, we have finished cattle and we have done feeders: We have never lost money on feeders, never. And yes, we raised feeder calves in 1995 and 1996 (.58/lb anybody?). When you take the bank, the fertilizer spreaders, the feed salesmen and lord knows who else out of the equation, guess what? You have money left for yourself. And the sale barn is a great venue to sell so that I can concentrate on delivering the best possible calf to the market. For me, Feeders are a no-brainer.

Razorback21


----------



## agmantoo (May 23, 2003)

translplant,
I have been cleaning the place up and attempting to get positioned to put the fescue in high gear. I need to get a lot of growth between now and Christmas. This week was spent in overseeding with Alice clover. I do have some bare spots and will be seeding with the fescue seed I harvested with my old AC gleaner. Hurricane Hanna missed us and so did the rain. I was wanting the cattle to walk in the seed in a few places. Where the clover seed was spread I went back and bush hogged the tops of the fescue to get that as mulch and to reduce the competition of the grass to the clover once it sprouts. Marshall rye grass will be planted if the fescue doesn't get sufficient water in the forthcoming weeks to get enough growth to amass as much stockpiled grass as I need. My current herd headcount will require approximately 3000 lbs of grass per day. This works out to be 7/10ths of an acre per day on good grass. My biggest concern is that I am trying to wean myself of commercial fertilizer and the uncertainty has me a bit unnerved. The grass at this juncture looks good and I cannot see any negative impact by not applying the fertilizer. You may have read in past posts from me that I was allocating roughly 1/4th of the gross income from the sale of calves to fertilizer purchasing. With the significant increases in fertilizer I did not want to use my share of the income to supplement the fertilizing. I recently read of a person in the midwest that has not fertilized in 20 years. With his success as encouragement, I just decided I would grow my nitrogen. As for pictures of the place and some of the animals I will post some more shortly. In actuality, I feel that I post too much and too often but I like helping people and if I can make a contribution to a single person I feel it was worthwhile.


----------



## translplant (Sep 27, 2005)

You definitely don't post too much.

What are you options to spreading commercial fertilizer? I know some of the answers already and if you have a good stand of legumes and that many cows spreading manure then it would seem your solution already exists. We did not spread commercial this year but were diligent about running the harrow over each paddock a few days after the cattle were rotated out (we move them daily). We also deliberately clipped and left grass and clover for mulch. Then we even tried running a spray on fertlizer over each pasture a few times but the drought caught up with us - no use spraying on non-existent grass. Everything feels pretty hopeless when there is NO grass to do anything with.

Although my pastures looked green and lush this spring after drilling rye grass last fall I suspect that the 2 years of no summer rain and no perennial seeding has caught up with me. Hard to tell in these extreme circumstances. The plan was to go Max Q fescue this fall but I may go rye grass again as a stop gap and some Kentucky 31 to save $$. I do know that with the crazy prices of fertilizer there has got to be another way. More poop, less chemicals maybe. 

We did experiment with grazing corn this summer on a small 1 acre plot and inter seeded with a vetch/pea. It looked great and the cows loved it. For a week. Then it was all gone. Not doing that again. Last summer in even more extreme drought we had sorgum/sudan and it lasted all summer with letting them graze a couple hours every other day. Only green thing in the county practically in August. 

It's definitely a challenge but I love it.


----------



## Wags (Jun 2, 2002)

Agman you certainly don't post too much or too many pictures - it is all very educational and I appreciate you sharing your knowledge!


----------



## agmantoo (May 23, 2003)

Here are a lot of pics taken today of the farm highlighting the grass. There has been no commercial fertilizer added in the last 12 months and I cannot tell any difference but I am unnerved as I remain uncertain of the consequences. We are getting a lot of heavy dews each night and the grass is getting water as a result. We did get a heavy rain from Gustav and that helped tremendously. I am now prepared with seed for another rain. Some bushhoging remains to be completed and I need to clean the perimeter fences of saplings and trash weeds. 
http://s73.photobucket.com/albums/i237/agmantoo/SeptPics1/?albumview=slideshow


----------



## mrpink (Jun 29, 2008)

I'm new here but I also look for your posts agmantoo. I am just starting to get my small pasture going and your opinions have been a great source of knowledge for me to gleam info from. thank you and keep posting.

greg


----------



## translplant (Sep 27, 2005)

I don't know if I'm encouraged or depressed looking at those photos Agman! I'm so blown away that's what yours looks like in a drought! We seeded good old Ky 31 today (thanks to your advice) along with some orchard grass, a tri blend annual rye and clover on a completely bare, bare field. Dust flying everywhere, the water was brown when I showered off tonight. Bare ground. Gave it some 6-12-12 to get started which I was reluctant to do with my low/no-fertilizer policy but I lost the debate. Rain expected tonight GOOD LORD WILLING and the CREEK _DOES_ RISE! (a little homage to Hank Williams)


----------



## agmantoo (May 23, 2003)

translplant
Any chance you going to be in western NC area in the next couple of months? I could contribute a few hundred lbs of fescue seed that I harvested to the effort. Did the creek rise?


----------



## wstevenl (Mar 26, 2008)

How did you harvest grass seed???


----------



## agmantoo (May 23, 2003)

wstevenl,
I have an old pull type AC Gleaner 66 combine that I paid 300+ dollars for a few years ago. I harvested $3000 worth of seed the first year I owned it. Its sole use these days is for harvesting grass seed. I harvest a couple hundred bushel of grass seed each year. All of these seed are not for me. The seed are shared with friends and neighbors. I do replant by broadcasting bare spots and newly cleared ground and I am generous with the seed since I do not have to buy them. I like seed that are grown on the farm as I know they are truly adapted to the place. I do not like drilled grass as it does not fill in as well as broadcast does. If you were closer I would willing give you some seed to try.


----------



## wstevenl (Mar 26, 2008)

I think that's pretty neat!


----------



## translplant (Sep 27, 2005)

The darn creek did not rise but temps are going down. Silver lining. (Shhh girl. Trying not to jinx the rain gods by not being appreciative for the 1.8" we got last week - first rain in over 5 weeks.)

That in incredibly cool that you harvest your own seed. I love that! Would you still consider it KY 31 anymore or could it actually be an "open pollinated" new seed. Who would know such things? This will keep me up at nights....

I'll tell you what was a total surprise yesterday was the price of orchard grass. Over $3 a pound! I took one of those bags back already. It made me extra careful when I was loading it in the seeder.

And switch grass! Over $12 a pound! We seeded that around the new pond for a filter strip. Didn't much come up though. (dangit.)

I agree about the density being better with broadcast but how do you do that in an existing stand? Any help and advice is appreciated.


----------



## wstevenl (Mar 26, 2008)

I don't know how well it's going to work (first time) but we're doing it by broadcasting and then rotating the cattle through to eat down the other forage and also press the seed into the ground with their hooves.


----------



## agmantoo (May 23, 2003)

When the grass has some height and I do not need the grass to feed I first broadcast the seed then I clip the tops off the fescue and let the clippings become mulch. It will look like this







If the grass is real short I broadcast over the low grass and when it does rain I put the cattle back on it and let the cattle walk the seed into the ground.


----------



## Allen W (Aug 2, 2008)

Transplant give the switchgrass some time. Native grass is slower to establish then some of the improved grasses.


----------

