# What do you bring to a partnership...????



## Sourdough

I have recently assessed my "Real" Value that I bring to a partnership. 

Now I am NOT wanting anyone to disclose their personal value that they bring to a union.

It seems clear based on recent threads that most/some/afew SingleTree members may not be clear about what they really want in a future partnership. 

Yes, We ALL want someone to accept us as we are. (That seems to be a given).

But WHAT do you really bring to the union......????

Youth
Good looks
cash flow
a paid for farm
A spawned out body
medical issues
mental issues
Skills

No one should respond to this thread, it is more of an invitation to set down with a sheet of paper and asses what you really have to bring to a union.

You may have a lot of value that you bring........however that may not be the things the other person values.


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## Fair Light

I realized this about a year ago....I think we are all different than we were in our youth....afterall...life has happened to us...some of us are better now and some of us are worse for the wear....I think that I am a better person based on the many life lessons I have learned....It is obvious I have more maturity now than before....I am kinder and much more gentle in nature.....but I am also stronger....


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## Sourdough

It just seems to me that there is some reason that all of us searching beings, can't seem to really but the deal together. And my guess is that it is human nature to inflate our personal value to others.


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## Sourdough

If you are both 17 or 18 y/o you have nothing but love and passion, then you bring equal value to the union.


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## glazed

:donut:

Fair Light, that is kinda what I mean by that saying under my username ... Tough Girl, Be Gentle.

:donut:


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## tambo

Someone told me today they wouldn't need to learn to bake bread if we were together since I enjoy trying to bake it. lol


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## Fair Light

I don't know about that...everyone wants to put their best forward. I think it has more to do with age....When I was younger, it was easier to even contemplate a new relationship...it takes a good bit of effort to "learn someone new".....and at an older age...we have a lot more baggage...we have past failed relationships...we sometimes have grown children and grandchildren to consider.


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## Fair Light

Sourdough said:


> If you are both 17 or 18 y/o you have nothing but love and passion, then you bring equal value to the union.


EXACTLY....when you are older...it is very different...even if you bring into the relationship many skills....it takes more than skills to make it work..


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## glazed

Sourdough said:


> It just seems to me that there is some reason that all of us searching beings, can't seem to really but the deal together. And my guess is that it is human nature to inflate our personal value to others.


:donut:

I will have to examine myself more closely after reading this ... I hope and pray I don't inflate myself too much, and I hope and pray I am humble.

As far as why I have been unable to put the deal together , well, my first "husband" was my youth minister from church ... I was 14 and he was 31 when he set his sights on me ... I was 18 and he was 35 when we "married" ... It was sad and scary and unhealthy from the beginning ... I cannot wrap my mind around how I should have been able to put that deal together.

Second "marriage" I take full responsibility for ... I broke his heart ... I "married for the wrong reasons ... Knowing I did not love him the way a woman should love a man ... I failed and sinned with that one ... I cannot describe the pain of living a lie.

I have much I have repented of.

:donut:


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## Fair Light

I have a neighbor friend that is 78 years old....a very wealthy man...owns a lot of land and many houses...5 years ago he met and married a woman (his age)from another state.....she left her family there....when she was here she was very lonesome....I met her and she was very very nice....he is a very nice person as well....I don't know all that happened...but he told me last week that she left and went back home....he is very sad...and lonely....but he said that this is how it is when you are older....sometimes it just doesn't work out logistically......


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## Prismseed

> And my guess is that it is human nature to inflate our personal value to others.


I wouldn't say this. More initially people put their best forward. To quote Chris Rock, "When you first meet a person you don't meet them. You meet their representative."

For most it is also much easier to talk about their strengths as opposed to their weaknesses


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## Sourdough

glazed said:


> :
> 
> I have much I have repented of.
> 
> :donut:


This is NOT about repenting.........That is history. This is about setting honestly with a sheet of paper and telling (YOURSELF) the truth about what you have to offer to the union.

For example I have money assets, but as I looked honestly I realized that I was a old man, with old man medical issues. Well that is part of what I bring to a union.


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## Fair Light

Sourdough said:


> This is NOT about repenting.........That is history. This is about setting honestly with a sheet of paper and telling (YOURSELF) the truth about what you have to offer to the union.
> 
> For example I have money assets, but as I looked honestly I realized that I was a old man, with old man medical issues. Well that is part of what I bring to a union.


Yes...it is reflective...I made that list last year....then I revised it this year...and I will probably have to revise it again next year....


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## wildhorse

It is difficult to see ones own value. Sometimes it would be nice to be on the outside looking in.


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## Fair Light

Sourdough are you indicating that folks should go over these lists at some point into a relationship? if so....when would be a good time to evaluate these things?...Or is this something we should just reflect on for own benefit...LOL....it is reminding me about when someone here made his lists of female qualifications a while back...


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## cindilu

I don't bring much with the exception of a desire to learn and be taught. Sorry, that is all I have for tonight, my brain is numb right now.


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## Sourdough

Fair Light said:


> Sourdough are you indicating that folks should go over these lists at some point into a relationship? if so....when would be a good time to evaluate these things?...Or is this something we should just reflect on for own benefit...LOL....it is reminding me about when someone here made his lists of female qualifications a while back...


That is not for me to judge......I noticed that when it came to being fully honest with Lovely LADY Laura, I found myself surprised at the truth of what I have to offer a lady. That does not mean I have less value as a human "BEING", it means that I needed to tell her the truth about me. And I was shocked at the truth about me.


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## glazed

((( hug ))) I hope that is a good numb, and not a bad numb, cindilu ((( hug )))

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

:donut:

I did an honest assessment of myself a few months ago, and came to the conclusion that it would probably be best to cull myself as a homesteader's woman.

When I weigh what I bring to the table (pros) and what I don't bring to the table (cons) the *realistic* assessment seemed clear to me.

With that said, at times I think I would love to hear someone give an honest "outside looking in" opinion of me ... Trouble is, how would you know it's honest? 

Eleven point has met me in in person ... We all know his opinion of me, and we all know my opinion of him.

Johnny Lee has met me in person ... I wonder what his honest assessment of me is?

JD knows me from countless hours on the phone ... Encouraging me during a frightful time ... Do I want to know his honest assessment of me?

Many on Facebook have broader access to my daily life ... How about them? Do I really want to know how I portray myself to the world? Am I consistent in who (oops how) I show myself to be?

WhyNot will be visiting me soon ... We all know how deep and sharp her perception is ... I wonder how she will view me?

When you really think about all of this, it puts you in a very naked and raw and vulnerable position.

:donut:


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## Sourdough

cindilu said:


> I don't bring much with the exception of a desire to learn and be taught. Sorry, that is all I have for tonight, my brain is numb right now.


That is NOT true, you bring a lot. Inventory your assets.


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## shanzone2001

I am just awesome...what more can I say????


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## Sourdough

glazed said:


> (
> 
> When you really think about all of this, it puts you in a very naked and raw and vulnerable position.
> 
> :donut:



Yes, and that is where one needs to go to discover personal truth. You are a very strong and brave lady. Keep peeling the onion of the illusion of self.

And it is just my opinion, but I feel you have massive value as a partner.


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## Marshloft

Sourdough said:


> But WHAT do you really bring to the union......????
> 
> Youth
> Good looks
> cash flow
> a paid for farm
> A spawned out body
> medical issues
> mental issues
> Skills
> 
> No one should respond to this thread, it is more of an invitation to set down with a sheet of paper and asses what you really have to bring to a union.
> 
> You may have a lot of value that you bring........however that may not be the things the other person values.


 Its always good to evaluate oneself. Thats pretty much a day in day out type of thing.
Even when I don't want to know the truth,, there is a spirit that lies within me that forces me to face my true self. Its not always pretty.
You have some thoughts on what the opposite sex might think of when searching for a partner.
Money is always good,
Good looks is a plus
a spawned out body? um, no
I suppose medical issues would be important, but over looked if all else fell in place.
Mental,,, yeah,,
Skills,, I thought I had skills till I read some of the skills of those here on HT.
You didn't mention one that I feel is most important, at least to me anyway.
Communication,,, being willing to listen falls under the heading of communication.
I'm one that actually enjoys sharing my thoughts, But,,, with-out the thoughts of your partner, my own thoughts have no value.
And oh yeah,,, humor.
That for me doesn't come naturally,,, I think thats because of my upbringing. But I'm working on it. Altho,, I seem to keep my boys in stitches.
So,,, its there.
GH


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## Fowler

I can only go by what people tell, Honest to a fault, cannot lie, funny, hardworker, strong, persistant, a mover, leader, and when I make up my mind I make it happen, stubborn, sweet, sexy, romantic, ruff on the outside but sensitive and I have a warped mind...LOL

But I see myself as probilly too strong, mind and streghth.
Some feel threathen by me. (I've been told)
It would take someone secure and strong to handle me...LOL


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## Sourdough

shanzone2001 said:


> I am just awesome...what more can I say????


You are a rincess:rincess:rincess:......:kiss:


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## Sourdough

Fowler said:


> It would take someone secure and strong to handle me...LOL


Is that what you really want. I am not judging this. And I suspect you may have allowed a valuable clue be disclosed to others and maybe yourself. I think it would take a lot a man to handle you, however I think he would have a treasure.


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## WhyNot

Sourdough said:


> But WHAT do you really bring to the union......????


Nothing that anyone wants. As I have been shown and told over and over. Knowing that and knowing me...it's not likely to change.



Fowler said:


> I can only go by what people tell, Honest to a fault, cannot lie, funny, hardworker, strong, persistant, a mover, leader, and when I make up my mind I make it happen, stubborn, sweet, sexy, romantic, ruff on the outside but sensitive and I have a warped mind...LOL
> 
> But I see myself as probilly too strong, mind and streghth.
> Some feel threathen by me. (I've been told)
> It would take someone secure and strong to handle me...LOL


Yes it would take someone secure and strong to be WITH you...not to "handle" you. 

I do have to tell you something...and why not have it be in a "the truth comes out" thread. You mask a lot of who you are....you mask because of the hurt of your past....you mask it with an exterior that isn't really you.

But lately you have been taking off that mask. Maybe not here on ST...but from what I saw of you before and what I saw in you last time I was up there....more of YOU is showing.

And it's completely awesome.


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## Groene Pionier

No youth here, looks are all gone, I live in a rental with a lot of (failed business) depts... an honest assessment of myself would tell me that what I think I can put into a relationship is only some skills. I do know those skills aren't very much valued here ('she is a bit strange' is the overall conclusion). What I know I can't bring is good communicational skills, which is the deal breaker all the time. 
Main reason that I will stay single...just getting my children on track and I'll see whatever happens from there!


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## WhyNot

Thing is...with regards to people's insights or perceptions as to how a person is...how you are. It's still THEIR perception. Sure, there could be some things revealed as to your true reality...maybe something that you were too close to be able to see.

But, again and still, it is THEIR perception of you...and likely only a small part or one facet of you. It is not necessarily any more "honest" or "objective" than any self declared honest assessment of self.

My daughter can give you all an assessment of me and I will wager it will be much MUCH different than anyone else's assessment of me whether they are on this site or my cousin or my best friend.

Or my mother.

Because my daughter knows me like nobody else in this world. And my mother knows me like nobody else in this world. Their perceptions of me are different than each others and both are different than anyone else's.

I'm one of those...what you call..."humdinger's"  lol Not a riddle wrapped in an enigma...but surely a riddle wrapped up in a noodle.


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## Shrek

All I bring into a partnership are myself and talents ,my own home to retreat to , my desires of what she will bring and expectations that she will bring the same geared to her tastes. I also expect both of us to be willing to accept if the partnership proves less than pleasurable that she will happily return to a sole proprietorship as I will.

Happily the two convenient locations available partnership I am in now is quite enjoyable with each location under single management of our verbally and sort of handshake agreed upon partnership.

We both are in agreement we don't want to mess up a good dating partnership with one of those M word contracts.


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## Sourdough

Fowler, We have never talked about "Powerful" relationships. In a really powerful relationship (We are talking here of transformational of one or more segments of human concepts) one is out front and the other is feeding the power. The one feeding the power is the true radiance empowering the other.


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## Raeven

Ehhh, it's like selling property. It's worth what someone will pay for it -- no more and no less. 

The nooks and crannies of my "total package" may appear as assets to one and utter liabilities to another. I'm only interested in the one who values what I am, and I value what he is. And it is so different for each of us.


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## elkhound

.......


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## WhyNot

Elk, I appreciate you...I really do. Truly. However there are a few of us here who actually know our reality and saying what I said about myself isn't being a negative nellie...it IS how it is. I accept it. Which means you can too.


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## Terri in WV

A person can bring a whole smorgasbord to a relationship, it's just a matter of finding the right someone that can handle what's being served and accept that there's a few dishes that they may not like as well, but understand that they make the table complete.


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## elkhound

.....


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## elkhound

.....


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## WhyNot

I don't see acceptance as tearing yourself down I guess. I get what I have always gotten no matter how much or how little I give. I see my circumstance as a part of my reality as it has been in the past...there is no reason to think my future will not be the same.

They say the definition of an idiot is someone who keeps doing the same things expecting different results. I do the same things expecting the same things to happen but you tell me I'm an idiot because I'm "selling myself short". I disagree. I'm not changing...therefore those things will stay the same. No reason to think the outcome will suddenly be different.


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## Marshloft

What women may need to realize. What you may see as a blemish,
in the right mans eyes,, that would be your beauty mark to him. Thats what
makes you special.


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## cindybode

This is an interesting discussion - since my marriage died a few years ago, I've been thinking about that, and my best friend has been lovingly giving me input that I don't always want to hear LOL. But that's why she's my best friend - she knows me inside out and loves me anyway. 

Her main assessment? I come off as too strong, too independent. I attract passive guys (like my ex) who are looking more for someone to take care of them than for someone they can be an equal partner with. She knows that inside I am tired of having to be strong and independent all the time. I would like someone to take care of me once in awhile - not all the time, but at least part of the time. But I don't let that side of me show . . . because I really don't know how. 

Otherwise, I think I know myself pretty well. Funny how a bad marriage can make you really find yourself, isn't it? I think I actually do have quite a few things on the pro side of the list . . . but only for the person who will see them as such, and I haven't met him yet.


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## elkhound

.....


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## Raeven

cindybode... I hope you will never let anyone tell you there is such a thing as "too strong" or "too independent." There is nothing wrong with either of those qualities. However, they can sometimes translate into hypercritical and inflexible. Only you can decide which qualities you wish to leave as they are and which you choose to change.

I would add that just because you attract passive men doesn't mean you have to have a relationship with one. I do think finding an emotional equal is important. Passive men will tend to view everything you do in terms of who has the most power in the relationship -- when all YOU want to do is get something done.  The better question might be, why have you settled for a man who is unable to value your strength and independence?


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## glazed

:donut:

You know what? I just love y'all to pieces.

:donut:


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## WhyNot

Elk:
I never said you said or implied that. I was drawing what they may call a striking statment in order to clarify a point...by shock if need be. Apparently it had no affect. Or not the desired affect anyway.

In fact I do believe I said "they say" (the proverbial "they" and not an actual they)...NOT "you say". :shrug: Seemed clear to me.

What I'm REALLY saying in all of this...is ...not all of us that are grounded and based in reality desire to sugar coat ourselves or our circumstances to the world. Neither are all of us "negative nellies" or whatever. Reality is reality.

There are only so many times that you can fool yourself that a cigar is a penis before you finally let go and realize a cigar is a cigar. Then you can relax on your porch in your rocker with a fifth and enjoy your dang cigar finally.


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## elkhound

.....


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## glazed

....

I have never smoked a cigar. In a rocking chair. On a porch. 

Come to think of it, I have never smoked a cigar period.

....


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## WhyNot

elkhound said:


> now i am rambling....sorry i even tried posting an uplifting post.


Back up there buddy...don't be getting all passive aggressive now. You post all the uplifting everything you want to...but just because you do doesn't mean I cannot post my reality.

What I have said about myself in this thread is not negative. You may choose to see it that way, obviously you have, but as far as I know and experience it...it is an honest assessment of myself. There are things about me that I will not change...no one asked me to..no one implied that I should. However...when you know who you are and you know that will not change..why should I expect anything else to change? I'm cool with how I am and how things are for me. I could not always say that but I can say that now. I accept my life. I love my life. I do not expect a man to be in it in a romantic way at all and the only people that seem NOT okay with that are people that aren't in my life. Funny. No?

So you posted a story of your buddy that knew what he could do and he could do it all day long and he did so until the day he died.

How is that different? I know what I can do and I can do it all day long until the day I die. 

I apologize if me talking about myself upsets you.....should be no surprise then why I am single.


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## cindybode

I stopped settling . . . which is why my ex is my ex. 

Maybe "too strong" isn't a good description. I am not good at asking for help, and I am _very_ good at minimizing my discomfort and my needs. For instance, I just had a recent blow up with a friend, and part of it was that . . . oh heck, this is way too long of a story to type out here . . . but when she asked how things were going I said we were fine, and to her things were clearly _not_ fine. But we were not in any danger, only a little discomfort, and there was nothing she could have reasonably done about the issue anyway, so I didn't feel like whining was going to do anything. My best friend thinks this makes me unapproachable, like I think I know everything and have all the answers. I don't mean to come across that way, but maybe she's right.

I need to find a guy like my best friend . . . someone who will hear me say I'm fine, look me in the eye and say _Yeah, right_ and then just do something to help without waiting for my permission. But so far I have only attracted the "nice guys" who couldn't show enough initiative to get themselves out of a burning building. Sigh . . .


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## Sourdough

Elkhound, There is your feeling of selfworth, but that is NOT what you bring to a union/partnership. Selfworth is not what I am talking about.


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## glazed

...

I'd rather talk about cigars and penises myself.

...


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## WhyNot

glazed said:


> ...
> 
> I'd rather talk about cigars and penises myself.
> 
> ...


....Buffalo Gap....brace yourself! :gaptooth:


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## glazed

:stars:

You didn't really try to fool yourself into thinking a cigar was a penis did you?
That was just an analogy right.
Right?

:stars:


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## cindybode

You can keep the cigars. Yuck.:yuck:


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## glazed

WhyNot said:


> ....Buffalo Gap....brace yourself! :gaptooth:




Yippee!


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## Sourdough

elkhound said:


> i just dont get tearing yourself down.......none of us are perfect...but neither is anyone on the face of this planet.
> 
> 
> theres nothing wrong with us....we just have to find the person that sees us and instead of going your not this or that or have this or that...they go....your cool...i think i want you around forever.


It is NOT about tearing yourself down. It is about what do you bring to the union/partnership.


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## WhyNot

glazed said:


> :stars:
> 
> You didn't really try to fool yourself into thinking a cigar was a penis did you?
> That was just an analogy right.
> Right?
> 
> :stars:


LMAO

LMAO.


----serious face---

Elk. Really, you had to go delete your posts? Look I'm sorry if you are offended by what I have said tonight. It was not my intention to aggravate or circumvent your rainbows and light message...I appreciate that as well...truly. But it really IS that some of us understand and know some things that maybe isn't another persons perception or someone else's reality. And it should not upset you. But I am sorry that it seems to have.

I AM an awesome person. I totally know that. The people who know me..really know me know that. That is one of the reasons I have been able to do all the fantastic and amazing things I have done in my life. I never would have been able to travel the world if not for people who knew me. Thing is...I know me too. And someone who really doesn't ( no offense ) isn't going to change my mind on that. Maybe I will change my mind later...but again..it hasn't happened yet and it's not likely to.

Just as I told someone not too long ago. Nothing happens in my life that I do not let happen. That said, if I say a relationship is not happening...it's not going to happen because no matter what happens, when I have decided...it simply will not happen. No amount of convincing is going to make it happen. And you know what? I am honestly happy. I wasn't...but I am now. Very much so. I have a lot going for me and have a lot of opportunities right now.

But to digress and quote myself with a little mixing up of the meaning....if a man should come along, he's going to have to be one freaking hell of a man...but the good news is...if he's that good...it won't take him long.


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## cindybode

An honest assessment of yourself is not tearing yourself down. Some things you might decide you want to work on, and some things just are what they are.


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## Shrek

glazed said:


> ...
> 
> I'd rather talk about cigars and penises myself.
> 
> ...


If you talk too much about em, you better take it to the other room of Singletree where the content rating is a bit higher . Of course if you would quit smokin cigars and chewing King Bee twist tobacco you might get yourself a date and not have time for Singletree atall


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## glazed

((( hug )))

My friends here bring me such joy!

((( hug )))

And welcome cindybode!!!! I think cigars are yucky too .... Yay for not settling!!!!

((( hug )))


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## Sourdough

Marshloft said:


> What women may need to realize. What you may see as a blemish,
> in the right mans eyes,, that would be your beauty mark to him. Thats what
> makes you special.


Yes, She may be special, but that is not the point. She may be special, and she may have a terminal illness, she may be special and have $367,891.00 of student loan debt. The point is Net, Net, Net what do you bring to the partnership.....???


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## cindybode

Thank you, Glazed. I don't know you well at all, but I really like you already! Although I do wish I wasn't craving donuts right now . . .


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## glazed

Oops, yessir, thank you for not getting me in trouble ... Whew ... I will be Good, I promise ... I was just confused and intrigued ... It won't happen again ... Well, it probably will but I think I better just keep my mouth shut.


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## Marshloft

glazed said:


> ....
> 
> I have never smoked a cigar. In a rocking chair. On a porch.
> 
> Come to think of it, I have never smoked a cigar period.
> 
> ....


 You are so missing out. I'm not a connoisseur of cigars by any means.
But after a really bad day, a nice dry wine and a smooth cigar just seems to help.
Its really not so much the cigar and wine tho,, its the person next to you that understands your day, your mood, and allows her man to ponder.
Then she gives him a big kiss, and reminds him,,, honey,, the dryer quit today,,, the goats got out and the fence needs fixed.
GH


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## glazed

:donut:

OMGoodness cindy!!!! I LOVE DONUTS!!!!!! Especially balls!!!!

:donut:


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## WhyNot

lol is this where the song.... "buffalo gals won't you come out tonight, come out tonight" comes from? I figured they were talking about something else....but...apparently the balls are out as well as the cigars


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## glazed

Oh shoot I prolly shouldn't have said that .... Ugh. ... And right after I apologized and thanked Shrek too .... Man o'man o'man


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## glazed

Marshloft said:


> You are so missing out. I'm not a connoisseur of cigars by any means.
> But after a really bad day, a nice dry wine and a smooth cigar just seems to help.
> Its really not so much the cigar and wine tho,, its the person next to you that understands your day, your mood, and allows her man to ponder.
> Then she gives him a big kiss, and reminds him,,, honey,, the dryer quit today,,, the goats got out and the fence needs fixed.
> GH


But if she's a good'un she'll say she's got a nice piece of pie in there waiting for you.


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## glazed

WhyNot said:


> lol is this where the song.... "buffalo gals won't you come out tonight, come out tonight" comes from? I figured they were talking about something else....but...apparently the balls are out as well as the cigars


...

Y'all I promise I am sober. I promise!! I am just so dadgum giddy happy!!!

Life is Good, oh so Good.

...


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## WhyNot

glazed said:


> ...
> 
> Y'all I promise I am sober. I promise!! I am just so dadgum giddy happy!!!
> 
> Life is Good, oh so Good.
> 
> ...


I'm not. Sober that is. Meh...but mostly people can't tell anyway unless I get grumpy. No grump tonight though. So far.


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## cindybode

> OMGoodness cindy!!!! I LOVE DONUTS!!!!!! Especially balls!!!!


Yeah, I kinda figured that out.

I think the hardest thing about asking this question is the tendency (at least for me) to realize that, although I would bring a lot of positives into a relationship, there are also some significant negatives. Then I go down the road of thinking that no sane man would want to saddle himself with that, and I figure I'm gonna be alone for the rest of my life. I know I will be perfectly OK if that's what happens, but it's not really what I want.


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## WhyNot

glazed said:


> When you really think about all of this, it puts you in a very naked and raw and vulnerable position.
> :donut:


Perhaps. But...does it really? Maybe a person only feels vulnerable when they know they are in a position to be hurt. Would a persons unadulterated assessment of you, if it were not all unicorns and fairies, hurt? If it would or could...instead of examining what someone may say, I would examine where that idea comes from.

I've gotten feedback before that I did not want to hear. Some of it I was in denial of, didn't see it. I had to examine not just what was said but that person and infer their possible motivations and compare that with the reality that is me. What they suggested that turned out I agreed with.......eventually...to be true did not actually leave me feeling raw and exposed...it gave me strength. Course that is after dealing with denial and analyzing it all to make sure who or what was or was not being projected and all that other who-ha. (talking like this is why I don't have dates lol)


----------



## glazed

And this is where, cindybode, you need to let elkhound's words of wisdom sink in .... It applies to you, and me.

Goodness, so much for going to bed early huh.


----------



## Marshloft

Sourdough said:


> Yes, She may be special, but that is not the point. She may be special, and she may have a terminal illness, she may be special and have $367,891.00 of student loan debt. The point is Net, Net, Net what do you bring to the partnership.....???


 Um,,, it doesn't matter what I bring to the table if she has a $367,891.00 debt.
NOT my problem. I'll except her children as my own,, I'll except her little quirks, (read my blemishes post). 
That being said,,, its all about the womans heart,,,that can sometimes be discovered in just a post or 3.
If the person I happen to fall for has debt,,then,, I guess we'll have to work thru it huh?
When my boy;s mother left over 6 yrs ago,,, they found a book and we read that book everynight for 6 months straight. Their decision.
The book was called.. We can't go around it,, We can't go over it We have to go thru it. 
To this day,,, 6 years later,, they told me this week it was their most favorite book I ever read to them. They still remember it.
Its amazing what we learn from our kids if we just listen
GH


----------



## WhyNot

haha! You should know better....

*


Marshloft said:



That being said,,, its all about the womans heart,,,that can sometimes be discovered in just a post or 3.

Click to expand...

*
Me first...what's in my heart, dude?


----------



## Marshloft

glazed said:


> And this is where, cindybode, you need to let elkhound's words of wisdom sink in .... It applies to you, and me.
> 
> Goodness, so much for going to bed early huh.


 yeah,,, going to bed early,,, ugh, tommorrows friday right? I'll live


----------



## Marshloft

WhyNot said:


> haha! You should know better....
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Me first...what's in my heart, dude?


 LOL,,, you first have to get my attention, so I can pay attention..
Part of thats on you ya know.


----------



## WhyNot

Geez..you said 3 posts and I have over 1700. Guess you really aren't that good then 

I don't have to get anyone's attention. If they are paying attention, it's a no brainer. Again I say


----------



## glazed

WhyNot said:


> Perhaps. But...does it really? Maybe a person only feels vulnerable when they know they are in a position to be hurt. Would a persons unadulterated assessment of you, if it were not all unicorns and fairies, hurt? If it would or could...instead of examining what someone may say, I would examine where that idea comes from.
> 
> I've gotten feedback before that I did not want to hear. Some of it I was in denial of, didn't see it. I had to examine not just what was said but that person and infer their possible motivations and compare that with the reality that is me. What they suggested that turned out I agreed with.......eventually...to be true did not actually leave me feeling raw and exposed...it gave me strength. Course that is after dealing with denial and analyzing it all to make sure who or what was or was not being projected and all that other who-ha. (talking like this is why I don't have dates lol)


...

When you talk like this I am really befuddled as to how/why you aren't taken ... For real ... Your mind is so expansive ... Perceptive ... Amazing.

As for me, yes, the truth is I don't mind feeling naked and raw and vulnerable ... And I don't mind placing myself in positions that could potentially hurt me ... I would rather be loving and open and soft and trusting than the alternatives ... The right man will come along for me ... We will both know he will have the power to hurt me ... Snap me like a twig if he wants to ... But we will also know he won't ... We will both know I am finally free and safe ... And it will be wonderful.

....


----------



## WhyNot

We are more alike than you currently know, Glazed. I look very much forward to meeting you and spending this weekend with you.


----------



## Marshloft

WhyNot said:


> Geez..you said 3 posts and I have over 1700. Guess you really aren't that good then
> 
> I don't have to get anyone's attention. If they are paying attention, it's a no brainer. Again I say


 I don't think i've read 3 of your posts that got my attention.
But,,,You have a point,, so I digress


----------



## glazed

I'm such a wuss that brought tears to my eyes whynot ... And I am sober!!!!!!!


----------



## glazed

:donut:

I think we need to THANK sourdough for allowing us to use his enlightening, fascinating, thread to explore the beautiful mysteries of net net net ... And also a huge THANK YOU to shrek for his mercy .... I have thoroughly enjoyed myself this evening.

:donut:


----------



## Sourdough

My point is that we bring many things to the partnership. Why HIDE the things we judge to be negatives....??? This forum is full of people who got into a partnership and later discovered the whole partner. My point is why not fully disclose everything about yourself to someone you are considering becoming partners with upfront......???




Marshloft said:


> Um,,, it doesn't matter what I bring to the table if she has a $367,891.00 debt.
> NOT my problem. I'll except her children as my own,, I'll except her little quirks, (read my blemishes post).
> That being said,,, its all about the womans heart,,,that can sometimes be discovered in just a post or 3.
> If the person I happen to fall for has debt,,then,, I guess we'll have to work thru it huh?
> When my boy;s mother left over 6 yrs ago,,, they found a book and we read that book everynight for 6 months straight. Their decision.
> The book was called.. We can't go around it,, We can't go over it We have to go thru it.
> To this day,,, 6 years later,, they told me this week it was their most favorite book I ever read to them. They still remember it.
> Its amazing what we learn from our kids if we just listen
> GH


----------



## Marshloft

Sourdough said:


> My point is that we bring many things to the partnership. Why HIDE the things we judge to be negatives....??? This forum is full of people who got into a partnership and later discovered the whole partner. *My point is why not fully disclose everything about yourself to someone you are considering becoming partners with upfront......???*




I think we are,, one post at a time. One PM at a 
Besides,,, if you got everyone on ST hitched, Shrek would be out of a job.
Its taken me 6 yrs to understand his vernacular, but,, I kinda like the guy.
GH


----------



## roadless

What I brought to my relationship was a woman that is honest, a hard worker, playful and trusting. I tried to be supportive and uplifting. I encouraged separate activities yet totally was into doing fun stuff together...."let there be spaces in your togetherness" was part of our wedding vows.

That was then.....now I am not trusting, insecure and overly emotional...constantly second guessing myself...still mourning all of my losses....alternately angry and sad....mostly sad.

I have nothing to offer anyone.


----------



## Guest

A lot of people, right here on ST learned the hard way that when you fully disclose yourself, there are vampires waiting for an honest, trusting person who wants to love and be loved. Said vampires swoop down and not only suck the joy of life out of you, but the potential to ever trust anyone again. I don't know about now, but in my past, in real life, there were a few bad people around, but everybody knew who they were and you'd know if you got too close to one. Not now. Oddly, they usually cloak themselves in self-righteousness, lot of quasi-religious talk, and feigned innocence. Believe me, those people know exactly how evil they are, and they know exactly what they're about to do to you. Because they've done it before you and will keep doing it after you. I have never, in the 44 years I've been messing with women, seen the depravity I have in the last year and a half. 
If you're going to fully disclose yourself at the onset, better carry a crooked knife. To cut that bullet out of your back.


----------



## Raven12

roadless said:


> That was then.....now I am not trusting, still mourning all of my losses....alternately angry and sad....mostly sad.
> 
> I have nothing to offer anyone.



I altered your post to the sections that I completely identify with. The worst part is that I hate myself for still caring.


----------



## roadless

Raven12 said:


> I altered your post to the sections that I completely identify with. The worst part is that I hate myself for still caring.


Yep, I still love the man.....and I don't know how not to, it's maddening.


----------



## Raven12

roadless said:


> Yep, I still love the man.....and I don't know how not to, it's maddening.


I know, Roadless. I should hate him and I can't. At least know that you are not alone. Hope that helps.


----------



## Guest

I like women that get up early. Just saying.....


----------



## Raven12

I make myself sick for caring about him and his welfare. Ugh. I hate me! Lol.


----------



## roadless

zong said:


> I like women that get up early. Just saying.....


How about ones that just can't sleep? :yawn:


----------



## roadless

Raven12 said:


> I make myself sick for caring about him and his welfare. Ugh. I hate me! Lol.


My ex told me he loved me everyday..including the day I was blindsighted and he said he wanted out.

What I didn't know was his insides did not match his outsides..mine did and does.

My love for him grew over the years and all the many experiences we shared together whereas he ( as I now know ) went through the motions and was a darn good actor. Kinda makes me wonder just how long my marriage was an illlusion.

I feel like I wasted the past 30 years...giving of myself in the best ways I know how to someone who could so easily discard me for another that I also trusted.

Why on earth would I even try again?


----------



## Guest

Because you still want to be loved. Wait til you get like me, and intentionally become abrasive so people keep their distance before you say that. The longing still shows on you now.


----------



## Fowler

WhyNot said:


> Nothing that anyone wants. As I have been shown and told over and over. Knowing that and knowing me...it's not likely to change.
> 
> 
> 
> Yes it would take someone secure and strong to be WITH you...not to "handle" you.
> 
> I do have to tell you something...and why not have it be in a "the truth comes out" thread. You mask a lot of who you are....you mask because of the hurt of your past....you mask it with an exterior that isn't really you.
> 
> But lately you have been taking off that mask. Maybe not here on ST...but from what I saw of you before and what I saw in you last time I was up there....more of YOU is showing.
> 
> And it's completely awesome.


I understand what your sayin.... however you met me twice and the first time I was in love and heartbroken, the second time you saw my strentgh in picking myself up and moving on. I dont see it as a mask just different situations that has happened at different times of meeting you.

Yes I will need a strong man, because I am a very strong woman. And I dont take no crap from someone being needy, insecure, lazy, or whiney.
I would like someone that can reel me in sometimes, in other words take charge, stop allowing me to fix and take care of everything. And allow me to be myself. Laughter is a HUGE priority, if you dont have that quaility you never even get to see the wizard.....LOL


----------



## Sourdough

roadless said:


> I have nothing to offer anyone.


I'll bet that if I spent an hour communicating with you I could list hundreds of things you have to offer.


----------



## Laura Zone 5

roadless said:


> My ex told me he loved me everyday..including the day I was blindsighted and he said he wanted out.


That is not your fault he is a sack of fertilizer.
What *you* brought to the marriage?
Loyalty
Honesty
Integrity



> What I didn't know was his insides did not match his outsides..mine did and does.


He's a deceiver and a sack of fertilizer.
What *you* brought to the marriage?
Genuine partnership
Transparentcy 
Open honesty



> My love for him grew over the years and all the many experiences we shared together whereas he ( as I now know ) went through the motions and was a darn good actor. Kinda makes me wonder just how long my marriage was an illlusion.


Probably always.
And it sucks to be deceived like that.
But you were real, and YOU will be rewarded.
He too, will give an account.
What *you* brought to the marriage?
Commitment
Covenant
Oneness



> I feel like I wasted the past 30 years...giving of myself in the best ways I know how to someone who could so easily discard me for another that I also trusted.


Yep.
What are the lasting blessings that come out of those 30 years of service?
1. YOUR character shines like the morning sun.
2. YOUR commitment, and loyalty speaks volumes of who you are.
3. If you have children....those blessings last as long as we live. They also produce grandchildren.

YES you did not receive what YOU deserved.
That doesn't change who you are.
Loyal, committed, genuine, integrity, etc.

Woman, your qualities are rare gems.
HE will be judged for what he has done, by Someone and in way that we were never fully understand. I hope your dh gets right with Jesus.......



> Why on earth would I even try again?


Me personally?
After 23 almost 24 years of living a lie?
Um, yeah, I would not even look. Much less......try.
I would have all of my man friends back....and add more!!
I would trade / barter my strengths for theirs (IE I could cook up a storm, clean like boss, organize.....in trade/barter for 'heavy' lifting / heavy fence repair, etc).
But as far as 'getting close' and be in a 'relationship'.
I'd rather RUN into a bear trap, naked, headfirst.


----------



## Guest

And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye?


----------



## roadless

zong said:


> And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye?


I have taken my own inventory throughout this process.....and there are many things I can work on to improve myself but when I said I loved him I meant it and did not look outside our marrige to try to "fix" myself.


----------



## wildhorse

zong said:


> And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye?



Consider it ha...it blinds me...


----------



## Guest

You have to work with what you have now. Looking back cannot help you, unless you want to do that "learn from past mistakes" thing into the ground. Nobody can move ahead while they under the onus of the past. You got to break free, or smother.


----------



## Fair Light

roadless said:


> What I brought to my relationship was a woman that is honest, a hard worker, playful and trusting. I tried to be supportive and uplifting. I encouraged separate activities yet totally was into doing fun stuff together...."let there be spaces in your togetherness" was part of our wedding vows.
> 
> That was then.....now I am not trusting, insecure and overly emotional...constantly second guessing myself...still mourning all of my losses....alternately angry and sad....mostly sad.
> 
> I have nothing to offer anyone.


You may think you have nothing to offer someone "now'..."today"...but the day will come when you know you have "a lot" to offer...and it won't be the same that you offered your ex....you will become a new person...


----------



## Fowler

I honestly do not understand weakness.


----------



## roadless

zong said:


> You have to work with what you have now. Looking back cannot help you, unless you want to do that "learn from past mistakes" thing into the ground. Nobody can move ahead while they under the onus of the past. You got to break free, or smother.


How? I really don't know how.

I try to change the channels in my head, I try to help others, I play with my dog, I go to work , I pray...but I know my heart is not in it..I feel as if I am a shadow of my former self....


----------



## roadless

Fowler said:


> I honestly do not understand weakness.


What do you mean? What are you viewing as weak?


----------



## Fair Light

I have always attracted men that need a "Mama"....maybe that was because I spent so many years as a single mom to three children and that was always the side of me that was present....I was always the "get it done" person...I feel like I carried the "whole load".....I can say this much...I have a "great" *aversion* to that type of man today. If ever I have another man in my life he would have to be exactly the oppposite...I still have the honest, hardworking, loving, kind and patient side of me....but I expect a man to act like a man and not a boy...that is the part of me that has changed the most....I think we continue to bring the same core values in relationships because that is who we are.....I think that is why our honest assessment of what we have to offer someone new will always change....I have to admit that as an older more experienced in life human being, there are issues that I am less tolerant of today than I was in my youth.....I probably wouldn't have considered someone's chronic failing health in my youth...but today that would be something to really consider..we just get wiser with age and experience.


----------



## Raven12

roadless said:


> Why on earth would I even try again?


For me, I don't want to try again on that level. I can't commit to anyone. The problem is the connection isn't there. It isn't the same. It isn't even close to the same. I know I won't ever find that a second time. I don't even know why it was with him but it was.


----------



## Guest

roadless said:


> How? I really don't know how.
> 
> I try to change the channels in my head, I try to help others, I play with my dog, I go to work , I pray...but I know my heart is not in it..I feel as if I am a shadow of my former self....


I don't know your answer to that. I have to preserve myself, so, had to do like a person quitting smoking, or quitting eating red meat. Just not as much sermonizing. And in stopping looking for what I wanted, I may have found what I need. Peace of mind. Loneliness ain't all that good, but loneliness will never leave you stranded, wondering what happened. You have to leave loneliness, if you want to be rid of it.


----------



## Fair Light

roadless said:


> How? I really don't know how.
> 
> I try to change the channels in my head, I try to help others, I play with my dog, I go to work , I pray...but I know my heart is not in it..I feel as if I am a shadow of my former self....


You are a shadow of your former self.....you are still in the middle of a crisis...It will take a lot more time for your "new" self to develop....but this new person that you will become will be a wonderful "better" person.....you are awesome....and you will retain that awesome part.....but there will be other parts that will be new..."added to" that awesome person that you are...but it will just take more time....a lot more time.


----------



## Laura Zone 5

roadless said:


> What do you mean? What are you viewing as weak?


What's working for me? YMMV..........

I look at it like it was an addiction, a habit.
Being 'addicted' to: wanting to be loved, wanting affection, wanting to be noticed (for more than a physical release) wanting to be 'needed', wanting to be important, etc.

When you 'break' an addiction, you don't just "quit and walk away".
You replace good, for bad.

For me?
Wanting to be loved (then) KNOWING I am loved(now), by the Lord and then my children. Walking in that knowledge every day. And it is enough.
Wanting affection (then) KNOWING that showing and giving affection(now) to my kids, or perfect strangers (in the form of support, not physical) is enough.
Wanting to be noticed (then) KNOWING (now) that The Lord NEVER takes His Eyes off me (sometimes not a good thing, when I am being a jerk) and knowing that my kids notice, and without prompting, verbalize.

And so on.

Replacing all the old habit, with new Truths.
It's hard, it's a lot of work, it has days where I don't do so hot......
But every day is a new day to try and get it right!!:thumb:

There is a fine line between hardening ones heart, and being a fool.
Both extremes are bad.


----------



## glazed

:donut:

Actually, I think a blend of "strength and weakness" is a very beautiful thing.

:donut:


----------



## glazed

...

It takes strength to show your weakness.

Hence, I am a tough girl so be gentle.

...


----------



## Judy in IN

The things I brought to this relationship were, assets, hard worker, perseverance, integrity, and honesty. 

The things that I needed to bring were patience and love--oh, and fortitude. 

There were two things that were concealed before the marriage that would have absolutely been deal-breakers had we not taken the vows. We are still working through them. Although they damaged the trust and respect, you have to be willing to repair that damage and go on loving your partner. That's tough, and I can see why people don't want to work THAT HARD to have a partner in their life. 

An exception for me is infidelity. I've been through that in a former life, lol. If your partner is willing to hurt you on that level, you don't have a partner; just a liability.


----------



## Guest

It's really hard to keep score when somebody claims to be married one day and a few days later they're talking about how they dealt with their own breakup. That is *exactly* the reason you just can't believe anything on the internet. That, and people either in a bad marriage, or so bored with life that they are lying about whether they're married or not trying to give advise to people who actually are hurting. Real life, broken marriages, hurting people. This ain't no game for loonies. Some people are here, been through all that, gotten their act back together, and can give good advise. But some people just seem to change every day


----------



## arcticow

Fowler said:


> I honestly do not understand weakness.


Perhaps that is the part of you that you hide from yourself?? 'Cause everypne has a blend of both, just that the blend varies...


----------



## Fowler

roadless said:


> What do you mean? What are you viewing as weak?


Short lived weakness I can understand, long term I cannot. Judge me if you feel the need but I am a strong person. I cannot understand long term weakness. I cannot understand not moving on, taking long term depression pills, not bettering yourself and blaming it on others for your failure, thus I cannot understand weakness.


----------



## Raven12

You are trying to rationalize someone who isn't rational. People with depression seek help. People with a deeper problem don't.


----------



## maverickxxx

K roadless not to be rude but u use different words to say the same thing over n over we get it n do feel for u. You are responsible for your own happiness no one else there's no secret that every one is not telling u. Obviously what u are doing isn't working so try something differ t n keep doing that till u find what works. Is your routine basically the same except he's not there? If it is stArt doing differ t things. If u wasted last 30 years why waste anymore thinking about how u wasted las 30 years. I would think that's worse than living an wasting 30 years. 

Everyone's love is not the same n not everyone is capable of it. Some people love deeper n emotionally it changes there chemistry to a sibiotic relationship with ones body. If u take it away it's taking away ones basic element needed to survive like balance in a diabetic. I would consider yourself one of lucky few that has the ability to do that. I could guarantee there's a lot less people like that then the other way around. It's a blessing an a curse. I'm sure u have seen people who can dump or dump someone n be on a date that night would u really want to be one of those people?


----------



## sustainabilly

roadless said:


> How? I really don't know how.
> 
> I try to change the channels in my head, I try to help others, I play with my dog, I go to work , I pray...but I know my heart is not in it..I feel as if I am a shadow of my former self....


roadless, you're not nearly as far into your own personal SHTF as many other ST members are so it's understandable that you may have an outlook that makes you feel lost in a haze of confusion, pain, questions, and self doubt.

I know because I'm not very far ahead of you and there is alot of self doubt and recrimination as well as a burning desire to move ahead and make things right within me. 

People often roll their eyes at the repeating of commonly known, life lesson sayings, but there is usually a good reason that they have withstood the test of time. Someone somewhere could grab hold of the substance in them and use it to motivate themself.

So, you know this one. To thine own self be true.

And, I read this the other day and thought of it when reading this thread.

Patience is waiting. Not passively waiting. That is laziness. But to keep going when the going is hard and slow - that is patience.


----------



## Guest

That brings up a point. You really don't want to turn into a vampire just to show vampires they can't hurt you. After all, that is the whole purpose, to make you one of them. That way, they can justify their evil by saying "see?? down inside, you're just like me" Don't do that.


----------



## roadless

Fowler said:


> Short lived weakness I can understand, long term I cannot. Judge me if you feel the need but I am a strong person. I cannot understand long term weakness. I cannot understand not moving on, taking long term depression pills, not bettering yourself and blaming it on others for your failure, thus I cannot understand weakness.


I don't know if you are referring to me but....

About 25 years ago I remember hearing a man say that if someone called him a ------ he would just beat them up, now he takes 24 hours and considers the possibility! Funny but useful. I have always remembered that and try to look at myself when someone shares their thoughts on me.

I would consider myself weak if I went back to drinking or drugs to numb my pain.

I would consider myself weak if I ran to another man to boost my ego.

I would consider myself weak if I failed to look (however painful ) at just what the heck happened so as to learn and grow

What I am doing is trying to make sense of a very abrupt, huge life changing situation that caught me unaware.


----------



## sustainabilly

I hear that!


----------



## WhyNot

roadless said:


> What I am doing is *trying to make sense *of a very abrupt, huge life changing situation that caught me unaware.



Sorry I have not been following your particular situation closely. But maybe this is it right here. Maybe you need to STOP trying to make sense of it. Because maybe it will never make sense. :shrug:

Someone who happened to be very everything once said, "Stop concerning yourself with the story. Concern yourself with the solution." Maybe that applies too. I dunno. Like I said, I don't follow everyone's lives here all that closely. IF it helps..run with it. If not...disregard. 

ETA: I have used variations on this in my personal and work life for a long time. While everyone is bickering about who's error it was or is and who to blame....someone else on the side figured out the solution to the problem. At some point the errors or stories don't matter...what matters is what happens next.


----------



## sustainabilly

But ain't it a comfort to have people to bounce your feelings against on the bad days?


----------



## glazed

:donut:

Hey Roadless.

I love you.

We all love you.

:donut:


----------



## sustainabilly

WhyNot said:


> ...While everyone is bickering about who's error it was or is and who to blame....someone else on the side figured out the solution to the problem. At some point the errors or stories don't matter...what matters is what happens next.


I hate this! Even more...I hate when I've -somehow- gotten dragged into it.
Drama bites. Thread drift, yeah yeah, blah, blah. But, to reconnect it to the OP, I've been thinking about what I am and what I'm not. I am _intense_ when involved. Be it personal or work. Ironically, I loathe drama. ...Got the t'shirt...etc. I'm a fixer. I've heard that, statistically, most men are. Maybe that explains the intolerance of solution inhibiting :flame:drama?


----------



## WhyNot

The only issue there is with being wired to be a "fixer" is that some fixers are better than others. Many triage the symptoms but do not actually treat the ailment.

I am dealing with this in my work. AND IT'S A PAIN IN THE BUTT....and they are all men...but that probably has nothing to do with anything. But for sure we do not think the same at all (my coworkers and I). Not at all. WooooooooW

I realized something though...they have all been trained to respond in the same way in the same process. They haven't actually been trained on how to find a solution, only how to mitigate issues. *pain in the behind*


----------



## coolrunnin

WhyNot said:


> The only issue there is with being wired to be a "fixer" is that some fixers are better than others. Many triage the symptoms but do not actually treat the ailment.
> 
> I am dealing with this in my work. AND IT'S A PAIN IN THE BUTT....and they are all men...but that probably has nothing to do with anything. But for sure we do not think the same at all (my coworkers and I). Not at all. WooooooooW
> 
> I realized something though...they have all been trained to respond in the same way in the same process. They haven't actually been trained on how to find a solution, only how to mitigate issues. *pain in the behind*


Have to agree with this. I spent the 90's doing maintenance in a distribution center, I started out on the night shift where you repaired everything correctly regardless of time spent, we did mostly preventive maintenance so you where catching stuff before it happened.

Switched to day shift and everything was get it up and running however/whatever it took and leave it for others to fix properly.

So depending on how they where initially trained you usually keep the same mindset for at least the first few months, any rate it can sure be irritating to all.


----------



## WhyNot

coolrunnin said:


> so depending on how they where initially trained you usually keep the same mindset for at least the first few months, any rate it can sure be irritating to all.


thank you!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!111 yes!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


----------



## sustainabilly

coolrunnin said:


> ...So depending on how they where initially trained you usually keep the same mindset for at least the first few months, any rate it can sure be irritating to all.


Re: this and whynot's post about probs. at work. Mayhaps some of the roadblocks could be in "soft skills" training. Don't want to elaborate, would just be conjecture. Best to mull it over yourself and see if the pieces fit.

BTW, cool. BTDT. 1st shift maint. often runs around putting out small fires. Unnerving and _majorly_ counterproductive!


----------



## WhyNot

I don't think that it is soft skills in my organization. Sure, several of them are missing them...but they don't need them because they are remote...having more or better honed would be good but not necessary really.

No...the issues I'm speaking of are "hard" skills or whatever. Today I heard, "Nah, leave that for the next guy." "Who cares just hand it to remote then it's their problem" which is just silly.

I said to one person who was only triaging and not trying to figure out what makes the issue keep occurring, "What progress have you made on the underlying cause?" He says, "I just made it work. It works." I said yes but you have been just making this and ten other machines "just work" every single day for two weeks...what is the underlying cause? All I got was a blank stare.

It's not a soft skill issue LOL He DID figure out what was screwing up..and knows how to fix it....but it doesn't not keep it from happening again. And I can't seem to get it through to him that it is better to actually fix it so it won't happen again. 

We have limited company resources...i.e. people....if we have 3 people always doing this...then the BIG problems we have less people to help with.


----------



## tambo

roadless said:


> My ex told me he loved me everyday..including the day I was blindsighted and he said he wanted out.
> 
> What I didn't know was his insides did not match his outsides..mine did and does.
> 
> My love for him grew over the years and all the many experiences we shared together whereas he ( as I now know ) went through the motions and was a darn good actor. Kinda makes me wonder just how long my marriage was an illlusion.
> 
> I feel like I wasted the past 30 years...giving of myself in the best ways I know how to someone who could so easily discard me for another that I also trusted.
> 
> *Why on earth would I even try again?*


Because you are to young to be alone!!


----------



## Fowler

roadless said:


> I don't know if you are referring to me but....
> 
> About 25 years ago I remember hearing a man say that if someone called him a ------ he would just beat them up, now he takes 24 hours and considers the possibility! Funny but useful. I have always remembered that and try to look at myself when someone shares their thoughts on me.
> 
> I would consider myself weak if I went back to drinking or drugs to numb my pain.
> 
> I would consider myself weak if I ran to another man to boost my ego.
> 
> I would consider myself weak if I failed to look (however painful ) at just what the heck happened so as to learn and grow
> 
> What I am doing is trying to make sense of a very abrupt, huge life changing situation that caught me unaware.


You asked what I meant, I only told you what I meant.

Stop trying to figure it out and move on sweetie.

I personally dont like to be around weak people, they suck the life out of me.


----------



## WhyNot

tambo said:


> Because you are to young to be alone!!


Being alone is only reserved for "old people"????????//

You mean I been doin it wrong for 19 years??????????


----------



## tambo

WhyNot said:


> Being alone is only reserved for "old people"????????//
> 
> You mean I been doin it wrong for 19 years??????????


Your never to old as long as you are on this side of the grass!!


----------



## WhyNot

LOL

Good save. LMAO


----------



## tambo

There is one thing I bring to the table. I say what I mean and mean what I say. I don't do hidden messages. I don't twist and turn my words to mean something else than what they say.


----------



## WhyNot

Fowler. I care for you. Maybe it's weird...but in some ways I think I know you better than you think. Maybe not. I'm more than willing to be wrong...it's all a work in progress.

I just noticed that several times in the last couple months you have a vehemence about "weakness" and you feel you are strong..but I have to wonder...with such strong feelings about it...where does that come from? Because from what I read when you talk about it...it sounds like resentment because you are you and other people in your life have been less than.

Well..wait. Nevermind. You don't really hold stock in much I say or see my way of it...so this is probably futile..and maybe it's all ----. But maybe it's not.

Yes I have met you twice perhaps that isn't enough or perhaps it's denial. Who is to say. The mask I saw wasn't when you were in love and grieving...it was this last time...when you are apparently healing. Perhaps I mean mask in a different way....I don't really mean it as a "face" for the rest to hide what is going on...rather..a way to hide what is going on from yourself.

And no..that is not an "analysis" because this last time I shut that off. But you did freak me out with the way you were driving LOL. You may know where every inch of your truck is...but I don't...and neither to those other people judging from the panicked looks on their faces.


----------



## glazed

...

I think the simple word you may be looking for, that says it all, WhyNot, is _projecting_.

...


----------



## Raven12

Someone recently said I was persistent. 

What I bring to the table is a quality that I have had since I can remember. One that has gotten me through the worst of times. One that has rewarded me with happiness. An undying hope. 

A hope that won't let me stop believing that someone can change the path they are on and better themselves.


----------



## roadless

I agree Raven12...reminds me of the line from a Led Zeppelin song, "there are two paths you can go on and there is still time to change the road your on".


----------



## Fowler

WhyNot said:


> Fowler. I care for you. Maybe it's weird...but in some ways I think I know you better than you think. Maybe not. I'm more than willing to be wrong...it's all a work in progress.
> 
> I just noticed that several times in the last couple months you have a vehemence about "weakness" and you feel you are strong..but I have to wonder...with such strong feelings about it...where does that come from? Because from what I read when you talk about it...it sounds like resentment because you are you and other people in your life have been less than.
> 
> Well..wait. Nevermind. You don't really hold stock in much I say or see my way of it...so this is probably futile..and maybe it's all ----. But maybe it's not.
> 
> Yes I have met you twice perhaps that isn't enough or perhaps it's denial. Who is to say. The mask I saw wasn't when you were in love and grieving...it was this last time...when you are apparently healing. Perhaps I mean mask in a different way....I don't really mean it as a "face" for the rest to hide what is going on...rather..a way to hide what is going on from yourself.
> 
> And no..that is not an "analysis" because this last time I shut that off. But you did freak me out with the way you were driving LOL. You may know where every inch of your truck is...but I don't...and neither to those other people judging from the panicked looks on their faces.


LOL!!!!.....I have no idea what you are talking about. I am me, and once you get to know "Me" more, you will see I dont stay down long, life is too short to live in misery. I pick myself up and have fun, with whatever I'm doing even if it's being mischeivous. Sorry if I scared you with my driving, but that will never change either wait till you see me ride a quad...LOL I am nuts and not scared to live. "I DO WHAT I WANT"... and I dont worry about what people think. I wont post a lot of who I am because of where I work. But I am who I am, *I didnt get where I am because I am weak.* Call my bestfriend, she'll tell ya exactly who I am. You just met me sweetie, just enjoy the ride.


----------



## Fowler

Bottom line, my weakness is short lived. And I make my life happen I dont wait on life.


----------



## Laura Zone 5

Raven12 said:


> Someone recently said I was persistent.
> 
> What I bring to the table is a quality that I have had since I can remember. One that has gotten me through the worst of times. One that has rewarded me with happiness. An undying hope.
> 
> A hope that won't let me stop believing that someone can change the path they are on and better themselves.


So let's say, God forbid, I lost my right arm in an accident.
For 40 years, I have had my right arm, and guess what? Now it's gone.
I wrote with my right hand.
I carried trays with my right hand.
I used a hand shovel, with my right hand.......
When I see something on the table, my brain still tells my right hand to pick it up, before it remembers "hey, it's gone".
40 years of doing something "one way" cannot be undone in a day.

It's gonna take more than a year, to 'retrain the brain, body, heart, etc' STOP thinking what it has thought for 40 years.
The arm, is gone. Never to return, never to grow back. Gone.
NOT ONLY do I have to get my brain to stop thinking about the right arm I also have to train my left arm to do what the right, always did.

It's a lot for a brain.
God bless those who have patience with me while I am learning to eat with my left hand.
I may get food all over my face. I may make a mess on the plate, table and floor. 
I may get up in the middle of a meal because I just am a wreck mentally trying to make all the changes......
Thank you for having compassion and patience while I have food on my face.

It's not an over nighter.
It's not a few days, weeks months.
It's not 'read this book, follow this program, take these pills" and it will all be better like magic.
And no two people are a like.
Patience and compassion, companionship and a good listening ear, are priceless.


----------



## Raven12

Laura Zone 5 said:


> *God bless those who have patience with me while I am learning to eat with my left hand.*
> I may get food all over my face. I may make a mess on the plate, table and floor.
> I may get up in the middle of a meal because I just am a wreck mentally trying to make all the changes......
> Thank you for having compassion and patience while I have food on my face.
> 
> It's not an over nighter.
> It's not a few days, weeks months.
> It's not 'read this book, follow this program, take these pills" and it will all be better like magic.
> And no two people are a like.
> Patience and compassion, companionship and a good listening ear, are priceless.


I am _very_ persistent.


----------



## Fowler

roadless said:


> I agree Raven12...reminds me of the line from a Led Zeppelin song, "there are two paths you can go on and there is still time to change the road your on".


I love Led Zeppelin, but there are more the just 2 paths, just pick another one and keep moving staying stagnit will lead you right where you are, creating a rut.


----------



## Laura Zone 5

Raven12 said:


> I am _very_ persistent.


Amen!!:angel:
I have been accused of being: Persistent, Thick headed, and strong-willed.
But after what *I* thought _was_ for almost 23 years, in reality _was not_..........:flame:
I didn't know what to do with that blind-sit-blow to the head.
It took A LOT of time (and patience) to get me through the valley of death.
I lost a couple of 'friends' (use that term loosely) because I was 'taking too long, not making sense, acting like a loon, needed to be drugged and refused to take drugs, wasn't relying on God, wasn't being a Biblical wife, etc).
Losing them is fine with me.:rock:

I am grateful for those PM's I have received over the last year, the encouragement. 
The tough love, the mercy, the compassion, the tough love with the "but no matter what you do, I am still here for you".......:kiss:

My heart hurts for roadless. I wish I was closer so we could have lunch and then go out with axes and cut large piles of wood!!:thumb:


----------



## Fowler

Laura Zone 5 said:


> So let's say, God forbid, I lost my right arm in an accident.
> For 40 years, I have had my right arm, and guess what? Now it's gone.
> I wrote with my right hand.
> I carried trays with my right hand.
> I used a hand shovel, with my right hand.......
> When I see something on the table, my brain still tells my right hand to pick it up, before it remembers "hey, it's gone".
> 40 years of doing something "one way" cannot be undone in a day.
> 
> It's gonna take more than a year, to 'retrain the brain, body, heart, etc' STOP thinking what it has thought for 40 years.
> The arm, is gone. Never to return, never to grow back. Gone.
> NOT ONLY do I have to get my brain to stop thinking about the right arm I also have to train my left arm to do what the right, always did.
> 
> It's a lot for a brain.
> God bless those who have patience with me while I am learning to eat with my left hand.
> I may get food all over my face. I may make a mess on the plate, table and floor.
> I may get up in the middle of a meal because I just am a wreck mentally trying to make all the changes......
> Thank you for having compassion and patience while I have food on my face.
> 
> It's not an over nighter.
> It's not a few days, weeks months.
> It's not 'read this book, follow this program, take these pills" and it will all be better like magic.
> And no two people are a like.
> Patience and compassion, companionship and a good listening ear, are priceless.


Now you are over exagerating, no one lost a right arm. 
I have lost loves, children, homes, stuff, it's not about body parts.
I can feel sympathy for others, but it is short lived, now move on.
Yes that is harse, but I if I thought like everyone else what a boring place this would be. You are just wasting away. Life is short lived do you really want to think back and kick yourself for the endless pitty party you gave yourself, or do you let it make you stronger and keep moving and living?

I'm not saying "NOT" to have a pitty party, just when does it stop so you can get to living again. seeing this thread was not about any of this and Roadless made it her pity party is the only reason I am replying...Sorry Roadless I like you as a person that I know of on the internet so I mean no disrespect, but when are you gonna move on and be happy? You already knew when your marriage went south, your in denial, accept it and move forward.


----------



## Laura Zone 5

Fowler said:


> Now you are over exagerating, no one lost a right arm.


I was implying a little deeper, meaning "having something for 40 years, then losing it, takes more than a few days to 'get over' and 'get on'.
Hard to pull up your boot strapS with one arm!



> I have lost loves, children, homes, stuff, it's not about body parts.
> I can feel sympathy for others, but it is short lived, now move on.
> Yes that is harse, but I if I thought like everyone else what a boring place this would be. You are just wasting away. Life is short lived do you really want to think back and kick yourself for the endless pitty party you gave yourself, or do let it make you stronger and keep moving and living?


That is definitely one way of looking at it, and we are all wonderfully and uniquely Created!! 
Some folks need a little 'proppin' up". 
Some folks need a swift kick in the pants. 
I have found that most folks need both......but it's knowing when to administer them is the key!:thumb:



> I'm not saying "NOT" to have a pitty party, just when does it stop so you can get to living again. seeing this thread was not about any of this and Roadless made it her pity party is the only reason I am replying...Sorry Roadless I like you as a person I know of on the internet so I mean no disrespect, but when are you gonna move on and be happy? You already know when your marriage went south, your in denial, accept it and move forward.


I think sometimes people have pity parties for themselves is because this world is so cold and hard....there is no one else out there to have that moment of "oh wow, that sucks....you didn't deserve that.....what a turd".
You can't hook that up to the IV and live off it.
But sometimes, it's good to hear it from someone else.

We just see things through different eyes. 
Neither one has 'better eyes or righter eyes'.
Just different!


----------



## Raven12

My comment about being persistent was in regards to trying to help another.


----------



## Laura Zone 5

Raven12 said:


> My comment about being persistent was in regards to trying to help another.


I must consume more coffee!!:thumb:


----------



## Guest

I really like Dali's "The Persistence of Memory" I even went to the MoMA in New York City to see it 40 some years ago.


----------



## Laura Zone 5

zong, you are more cultured man than I (well, I'm not a man either....)
I don't get it?
I don't understand what I am looking at?
It looks like an album cover off a Pink Floyd album......
Can you walk me through it? Please


----------



## Guest

As in any surrealistic art, the interpretation is up to the viewer, and everybody won't see the same thing. There are commonly accepted theories of "what it means" but you're better off looking at it a few minutes and asking what it means to you. To me, it implies the melting together of time and space, as you look back on it. Notice, inside your memory, the memory of 20 years ago is as "real" as the memory of yesterday. Both are real, and not real at the same time. Memories are themselves, no longer subject to physical laws. 

As an example, when I was 9 years old, I lived at the bottom of a huge hill, nearly a mountain. When the never ending snow of 1960 came, my cousin, the kid across the road, and I had the time of our lives sliding down the mountain on the metal sliding board I had taken off my swing set. 
50 years later, I had an opportunity to be near there again, and I was thinking about those old memories and drove by there. The old house was still there. I parked on the side of the road, got out and looked at the mountain I had been remembering for the past 50 years. It was about a hundred feet long and about as steep as my front yard. Yet, when I closed my eyes, I could still feel the excited thrill of 3 kids on a sliding board, flying down a mountainside.

The persistence of memory. Time and space melt together into a strange and wondrous image of not what is, or what was, but what is remembered.


----------



## tambo

Everyone's pain is their own. It's going to take each person as long as it takes for them to deal with it. No one should judge someone else's pain. Some people love deeper than others do so it will take longer for that wound to heal. Then if you have multiple deep wounds it is going to take longer also.

ST could be a soft place for these wounded people to fall. We should have empathy and compassion for the wounded and broken people that come here and not be so quick to judge them. 

If you are quick healer good for you. Someone else may not be.


----------



## Ramblin Wreck

zong said:


> I really like Dali's "The Persistence of Memory" I even went to the MoMA in New York City to see it 40 some years ago.


That was my mouse pad...a Christmas gift from a friend.


----------



## L.A.

What's a mouse pad???? hehe


----------



## Guest

Just my own two cents..

I don't see mourning as a weakness..
mourning what "should have been but was not" hurts more, I think, than mourning what "was" but is now gone...to spend decades in a marriage believing that you love and are loved in return only to discover years of betrayal...well..been there and done that..I wasn't burned, I was washed with a blow torch..it took me two years to get my mind right..and I needed every single one of those days. 

Just my observation in life, some folks get stuck in mourning..most go through the process and heal their heartache..the time it takes varies with the individual and the circumstances..

To answer the OP..

I bring love, laughter, loyalty, and a truckload of skills..and arthritis..and a bit of nerve damage..oh..and a heart which will someday need a pacemaker ..and a family which can, at times, be "interesting" in a Neil Simon sort of way..LOL..carpe diem..


----------



## Raven12

An online forum gives me the opportunity to express the pain that I am holding in. There are certain cases where the mourning period might never end for various reasons and when circumstances are out of your control there is not much you can do but mourn. I have the feeling that I am headed down that road. As harsh as this place is, the real world can be even more judgmental. I am sure there are others that feel the same.


----------



## glazed

Laura Zone 5 said:


> I must consume more coffee!!:thumb:


:donut:

NOooooooooooooo you dont!!! Laura pleeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeaaassssse. You have had enough!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

(((( lol ))))

*ducking for cover*

:donut:


----------



## Fowler

I am being judged for my lack of compassion for weakness how does this differ? Contridictions do not exist. Just sayin


----------



## Laura

I think many here have lost limbs and suffered deep wounds. Instead of taking time for healing or being fitted for a nice functional prothesis, they had a club installed. One thing I learned, when someone says they don't mean any disrespect, they have every intention of disrespecting.

You Fouler claim you have healed and moved on. Unfortunately you did not allow anyone to wash the wounds and stitch them properly, reset the bones in your compound fractures, secure it with screws, wrap, splint and put casts on them. You are not healed, you are only scarred over into a disfigured mess.


----------



## Fowler

Its not about me Laura so stop trying to figure me out cause you wont. Focus on others that need your advice, because its just not about me even though some of you want it to be.
Laura you make me laugh and its not with you.


----------



## Laura

I have no interest in you, Fouler. I don't need to figure you out, you're transparent.

My interest is the wellbeing of others who don't like to be bashed and crapped on by you while they seek their own healing.


----------



## cindybode

> NOooooooooooooo you dont!!! Laura pleeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeaaassssse. You have had enough!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Glazed, dear, there is no such thing as enough coffee. 

I'm a volunteer counselor in a Christian marriage ministry. My ex and I got involved with the ministry . . . well, OK, I dragged him into it! . . . in a last ditch attempt to salvage whatever it was we had. Turns out it wasn't much, and he chose to move on. But I learned a lot in the process, and I decided to stick around and try to help others with what God showed me.

One thing I learned is that recovery very much depends on where you're starting from. I have worked with women who are so wounded, both from their marriage and their childhood, that it's a struggle just to get them to take one step forward. I have worked with others who blow through the process so fast that they don't really give themselves time to heal, and we end up going back around and dealing with things a second, third, or 457th time. It is what it is, we are all individuals, and no matter what, God takes care of His girls.

FYI if any of you are interested, I run a conference call on Friday nights for _women_ (sorry, guys!) who are divorced or in the process. It's basically for support and encouragement. It's free unless your phone company charges you for long distance or conference calls. If anyone would like the number, I'd be happy to share it. Just remember that it is a Christian ministry - if that's not you, you are still welcome, but it's not the place to debate Christian views, OK?  And we are NOT licensed counselors, just regular people sharing our experiences.

But going back to the OP . . . I think the things each person brings, both positive and negative, need to be revealed in small doses at first. If I meet someone I like and reveal my financial situation (which thoroughly sucks at the moment) in the first couple of dates, he may run screaming from the room. He'll never get to the point where he is able to decide that he likes me well enough to say _We'll work it out._ So I think you need to see yourself honestly, but you also have to use some discernment about when to reveal what, ya know?


----------



## glazed

...

Cindy, Cindy, Cindy ... You bode very well with me, my friend, my sweet Sister.

...

P.S. I don't like coffee!!!!!! lol bleh

...


----------



## cindybode

> P.S. I don't like coffee!!!!!! lol bleh


That's OK. I'll forgive you.


----------



## Fowler

Laura said:


> I have no interest in you, Fouler. I don't need to figure you out, you're transparent.
> 
> My interest is the wellbeing of others who don't like to be bashed and crapped on by you while they seek their own healing.


I never bashed anyone, they asked a question. Again your perception. 
Oh wait!! Your right and I'm wrong!! Really Now you want to judge how I feel and think? You know nothing about me lady, transparent? that's you miss know it all. I have an opinion on weakness, if you choose to be weak then so be it, the longer you prolong your life is not my problem.

NEVER assume you know me, it will only make an grits out of you.


----------



## Laura

Fouler, let me be as blunt as you. How many people have to tell you in how many different ways you come off as a wounded animal howling and lashing out in pain before you get it?


----------



## cindybode

Looks a little Hatfield and McCoy-ish up there^^.

So for those of you who feel that they would bring some negatives to a partnership, what are they (if you want to share?) and how do you think you might overcome them? I'm talking about character issues, not circumstances. 

I am pretty stubborn and I don't like to admit it if I don't have the answers. I like to tell other people what to do, and I'd appreciate it if they'd just shut up and do it, thank you very much. I know I need help with that, because I usually don't see it when I'm doing it. So I need people to be honest with me and tell me if they're feeling like I'm running over them or dismissing them, because if you say OK, I think that actually means OK. 

This is one of the many reasons my baby-sis-who-doesn't-share-my-DNA is such a blessing to me. She'll get right in my face and tell me what I don't want to hear.


----------



## Fowler

For someone that dosent care about me sure does have her head up my grits alot.


----------



## Fowler

And I never said you couldnt be weak "Laura" how funny you are, some people have been crying over their situation for over a yr. Move on. I showed my weakness and asked questions and moved on life waits on no one. Pay attention Laura. Seeing that Im so transparent lol you of all people should know Ive moved on. Seeing Im so transparent and all. Lol


----------



## Tommyice

Laura said:


> *Fouler*, let me be as blunt as you. How many people have to tell you in how many different ways you come off as a wounded animal howling and lashing out in pain before you get it?


For a woman who portends to be so intelligent and able to "read" people so well, how does it read about you that you act like a schoolyard child by purposefully altering a person's name (albeit an online one) into a derogatory misspelling?

Grow up.

Sorry for the drift, back to your regularly scheduled discussion.


----------



## tambo

Fowler said:


> And I never said you couldnt be weak "Laura" how funny you are, *some people have been crying over their situation for over a yr.* Move on. I showed my weakness and asked quetions and moved on life waits on no one. Pay attention Laura. Seeing that Im so transparent lol yopu of all people should know Ive moved on. Seeing Im so transparent. Lol



By this statement I'm real weak then.


----------



## Guest

Some women get hurt by a man, and hate all men. Then they don't understand why other women don't hate all men too. In the end, they hate everybody, but mostly hate themselves. I'm sure that the same can be said of some men, too.


----------



## Laura

tambo said:


> By this statement I'm real weak then.


Tambo, you are not weak. You are wise enough to know proper healing takes thorough wound cleansing, time and great care not to have gnarly scars that will interfere with daily living. It takes a strong person to jab a long needle under their shredded flesh and pump a syringe of chlorhexadrine to flush the dirt and germs out of wounds.

Anybody can take big ol' mattress stitches and be done in a minute. Trimmed dead flesh with tiny embroidery stitches or a nice line of superglue dressed with royal jelly and a duct tape patch takes more time, but the results are worth it.


----------



## Fowler

Laura you make me laugh...lol


----------



## Laura Zone 5

Fowler said:


> I am being judged for my lack of compassion for weakness how does this differ? Contridictions do not exist. Just sayin


1, 2, 3......NOT IT.
I hope I do not come across as judging you for _________.
Just saying you and me have different approaches.:kiss:


----------



## RideBarefoot

I think I have written reams in response to the OP and deleted every one. There are so many qualities I bring (as both partners do) to each relationship, whether it turns out good or bad. Each is their own person with individual thought processes; maybe it meshes with the other person, maybe it doesn't. How do you find that out until you really get into the thick of it- until you really have to work at it? 

My answer is stick-to-it-ness; I don't like non-communication, and will keep at it until both sides have had their say and understand each other. I think it helps people grow.

And if it doesn't turn out for the best, then ask yourself "what did I learn from this?"


----------



## roadless

I am strong enough to continue to show my soft "underbelly".
If I am to be in another relationship again you could trust me to show me yours.

I would physically work along side of you to the best of my ability.
I would listen.
I would make you laugh.
I would give you space.
I would curl your toes.
My goal would be to help you in any way possible to reach your goal or dreams....because if I loved you they would be important to me also.
Oh ...and I would definitely bring my dog...and books....lots of shoes...


----------



## littlejoe

Sourdough said:


> I have recently assessed my "Real" Value that I bring to a partnership.
> 
> Now I am NOT wanting anyone to disclose their personal value that they bring to a union.
> 
> It seems clear based on recent threads that most/some/afew SingleTree members may not be clear about what they really want in a future partnership.
> 
> Yes, We ALL want someone to accept us as we are. (That seems to be a given).
> 
> But WHAT do you really bring to the union......????
> 
> Youth
> Good looks
> cash flow
> a paid for farm
> A spawned out body
> medical issues
> mental issues
> Skills
> 
> No one should respond to this thread, it is more of an invitation to set down with a sheet of paper and asses what you really have to bring to a union.
> 
> You may have a lot of value that you bring........however that may not be the things the other person values.


Wow! Maybe they should asess, rather than asses? Maybe my understanding is cockeyed though? hehe

I wouldn't bring anything to the table other than my love and laughter. Don't make a heap of dung how rich you are, if you can't enjoy life, you ain't living right. Tain't a world travelor here. Hadn't been out of state for a number of years till now, but not that I wouldn't enjoy any or all? I just tend to enjoy life as it is. Have few wants and less needs.

I'd be happy with a cave and a warm fire if it came to that.


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## cindybode

> I wouldn't bring anything to the table other than my love and laughter.


I'd have to disagree . . . and I don't know you at all, so don't misunderstand and think I'm saying the examples below are necessarily true of you. My point is that we all bring lots of stuff, both positive and negative, and if we're reasonably smart and mature we'll know that about ourselves. If we're not, we will tend to see only our strengths, and then we'll wonder why it all went south when it finally does.

You would bring love . . . and the thing that your parents/siblings/ex did to hurt you, so that if your new partner accidentally touched that wound, you might blow up or shut down.

You would bring laughter . . . and your ability to handle finances (or not!) and your priorities for how to spend your time and money.

You would bring the ways you learned to communicate and to handle pain when you were growing up . . . and the ways you've learned to overcome those (or not!) You'd bring every single thing you did as a child to cope with your environment, unless you've learned to recognize and change the ones that don't work now that you're an adult.

You'd probably bring some downright annoying habits, because we pretty much all have them.

And hopefully you'll find the person whose . . . stuff . . . meshes well with yours.


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## Marshloft

cindybode said:


> I'd have to disagree . . . and I don't know you at all, so don't misunderstand and think I'm saying the examples below are necessarily true of you. My point is that we all bring lots of stuff, both positive and negative, and if we're reasonably smart and mature we'll know that about ourselves. If we're not, we will tend to see only our strengths, and then we'll wonder why it all went south when it finally does.
> 
> You would bring love . . . and the thing that your parents/siblings/ex did to hurt you, so that if your new partner accidentally touched that wound, you might blow up or shut down.
> 
> You would bring laughter . . . and your ability to handle finances (or not!) and your priorities for how to spend your time and money.
> 
> You would bring the ways you learned to communicate and to handle pain when you were growing up . . . and the ways you've learned to overcome those (or not!) You'd bring every single thing you did as a child to cope with your environment, unless you've learned to recognize and change the ones that don't work now that you're an adult.
> 
> You'd probably bring some downright annoying habits, because we pretty much all have them.
> 
> And hopefully you'll find the person whose . . . stuff . . . meshes well with yours.


 You seem to get it,,, it takes time to absorb your future partners charactaristics and personality.
And to think guy;s don't have those attributes.
We do,, but it comes from a desire to share of ones real self. That ain't happening till you know, that you know, that its ok.
Its hard to share ones thought till you know its ok.
Where does trust begin? And who initiates that trust?
GH


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## cindybode

> Where does trust begin? And who initiates that trust?


Trust is a two way street. If you and I are to trust each other, we each have to show ourselves to be trustworthy, and we each have to be willing to trust.

If one of us behaves in a way that the other _perceives_ (because sometimes perception is not reality) to be untrustworthy, there will be no trust.

If one of us is not willing to trust, even if the other person behaves perfectly, there will be no trust.

As for when it begins, I think it begins immediately, in small things. If you and I agree to meet for lunch somewhere, a small amount of trust is given and earned when we both show up at the agreed upon place and time. As we get to know each other better, there will be plenty of opportunities to either build trust, or to break it. And if one of us appears to break it, I hope we'd both be mature enough to talk it out and find out what's really going on before passing judgment, because sometimes there's a story behind the story.


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## Sourdough

Marshloft said:


> You seem to get it,,, it takes time to absorb your future partners charactaristics and personality.
> And to think guy;s don't have those attributes.
> We do,, but it comes from a desire to share of ones real self. That ain't happening till you know, that you know, that its ok.
> Its hard to share ones thought till you know its ok.
> Where does trust begin? And who initiates that trust?
> GH



Trust is a choice made by the one that is doing the trusting. It is a moment by mega-second moment "Choice" made by the one doing the trusting. Trust is "NOT" something that grows or diminishes, it is NOT something that is earned.

There is full trust or there is no trust, there is no sliding scale or degrees of trust. You may experience full trust "AND" (I will say that again "AND") degrees of fear. The degrees of fear are what you confuse to be degrees of trust.


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## doodlemom

Trust diminishes.


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## doodlemom

Hmmm trust grows too...Hey I disagree and need more coffee.


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## cindybode

Sorry, Sourdough, but I disagree too . . . I think. I'm not sure I fully understand your point of view. 

So if we're friends, and things have been perking along in our relationship just fine, but then I steal money from you, are you saying that this wouldn't affect your trust? 

Help me out . . . I'm a little confused.


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## glazed

Marshloft said:


> You seem to get it,,, it takes time to absorb your future partners charactaristics and personality.
> And to think guy;s don't have those attributes.
> We do,, but it comes from a desire to share of ones real self. That ain't happening till you know, that you know, that its ok.
> Its hard to share ones thought till you know its ok.
> Where does trust begin? And who initiates that trust?
> GH


...

So when did you know it was okay?

Like cindybode said trust is a two-way street and begins almost immediately with the small things ... In our case, even smaller.

As far as who initiates it, I'd say it's mutual.

...


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## sustainabilly

I may trust the school to educate my child. That doesn't mean I trust them to raise him.

I may trust my child to get up, wash, and get ready for school. I don't trust him to drive himself.

I may trust a woman to meet me for dinner. That doesn't mean I trust her with important secrets.

From the beginning to the end, through the degrees and the give and take of learning about one another, it's still called trust.


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## Sourdough

cindybode said:


> Sorry, Sourdough, but I disagree too . . . I think. I'm not sure I fully understand your point of view.
> 
> So if we're friends, and things have been perking along in our relationship just fine, but then I steal money from you, are you saying that this wouldn't affect your trust?
> 
> Help me out . . . I'm a little confused.


__________________________________________________ _____________________________


"IT" would Not be a factor. You could steal my money and I can still "CHOOSE" to trust you with my money. You could steal my money, and I could then ask you to please hold this $5,000.-- Cash for me till I need it. Seven years later, I contact you and ask for my cash, and you give me the exact "Same" cash back that I asked you to hold.

My trusting you or the ice on the lake has nothing to do with past trust, or for that matter other peoples experience of trusting you or the ice.

To make a better example: There could be six of us living together, and you steal $2,000.-- from each of us. Now there is at this point "NOTHING" that you can do to create being trusted again, because the trust resides outside of you.
We each get to choose if we want to trust you, it is our choice. 

You see it on this forum all the time. EXAMPLE: "I gave him ten years of my life, and he just walked away. After two years I decided to trust another man, and gave him 14 years of my life, and he left me. I will never trust again".

That is a choice that they make. To trust or not to trust, it all exists in the person doing the trusting.

Another EXAMPLE: You trust him, he abandons you, you get divorced. A year later you meet him, Get Married again, and he never ever leaves you over the next 53 years till you die. You choose to trust him, it all exists with-in you, not him.


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## Marshloft

Sourdough said:


> Trust is a choice made by the one that is doing the trusting. It is a moment by mega-second moment "Choice" made by the one doing the trusting. Trust is "NOT" something that grows or diminishes, it is NOT something that is earned.
> 
> There is full trust or there is no trust, there is no sliding scale or degrees of trust. You may experience full trust "AND" (I will say that again "AND") degrees of fear. The degrees of fear are what you confuse to be degrees of trust.


 I'll have to ponder on that one for awhile, let it sink in.
Maybe it can be confused with respect. Or vise versa. I've told my boy's that when you meet someone for the first time, they deserve a certain amount of respect.
From that day on, that respect increases or decreases based on that persons actions.
GH


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## Marshloft

glazed said:


> ...
> 
> So when did you know it was okay?
> 
> Like cindybode said trust is a two-way street and begins almost immediately with the small things ... In our case, even smaller.
> 
> As far as who initiates it, I'd say it's mutual.
> 
> ...


 Maybe I'm confusing trust with respect,,, as respect grows, trust grows along with it?
As far as initiateing it?
Thats a hard one,,, someones gotta do it.
It does however, make one vulnerable.
This is just me talking, nothing to go on other than my own thoughts.
Because I want to be trusted, I would most likely show trust on the onset.
And hope it wasn't all for naught.
GH


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## Sourdough

glazed said:


> ...
> 
> So when did you know it was okay?
> 
> Like cindybode said trust is a two-way street and begins almost immediately with the small things ... In our case, even smaller.
> 
> As far as who initiates it, I'd say it's mutual.
> 
> ...


I had a "Life Mastery" Teacher who's response would be, "How is that working for you"...????


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## Sourdough

Let us see if we can't fire'UP this Singletree thingie........a wee bit.


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## Laura Zone 5

Sourdough said:


> I have recently assessed my "Real" Value that I bring to a partnership.
> 
> Now I am NOT wanting anyone to disclose their personal value that they bring to a union.
> 
> It seems clear based on recent threads that most/some/afew SingleTree members may not be clear about what they really want in a future partnership.
> 
> Yes, We ALL want someone to accept us as we are. (That seems to be a given).
> 
> *But WHAT do you really bring to the union......????*
> 
> Youth
> Good looks
> cash flow
> a paid for farm
> A spawned out body
> medical issues
> mental issues
> Skills
> 
> 
> You may have a lot of value that you bring........however that may not be the things the other person values.



Can this be broken down?

Knowledge (canning, running electricty, fixing engines, medical skills, etc)

Physical (can do manual labor for more than 15 min, etc)

Mental (keeps things in perspective, critical thinking, problem solving ect)

Emotional (can boost morale, not harsh and critical, etc)

Spiritual


I am totally blown away by my answers 3 years ago.......poor me. I was such a mess!!


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## Sourdough

Good thread to kick'start Singletree.........:icecream:


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## Laura

I think the only things I have left are cynicism, sarcasm, the ability to call BS when I smell it and my smile.

I still have the Mary Poppins carpet bag and all her skills, but the vocabulary is a bit shorter now. That great big word? It's down to 4 letters so people understand.


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