# Insulation price differences?



## Jim Bunton (Mar 16, 2004)

I am hoping to build a new house next year. Depends what I can sell my current house for.

Any one have an idea of price comparisons between fiber glass bats in 2X4 walls, 2X6 walls and spray foam in the same two choices. The house will be in the 1600 sq ft range. 

Any information would be welcome.

Thank You Jim


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## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

I can't speak to the current prices but I would recommend SIPS.

We built our house in 2001 using SIPS. It is 1200 square feet and I would use them again. Quiet, efficient and the walls and roof can go up in a couple of days, fully insulated and ready to roof.


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## moeh1 (Jan 6, 2012)

I used sips in the roof, very happy (walls are log). Spray will be more $ than fiberglass initially, but you get less leakage and built in vapor barrier. Price is probably location sensitive, depending on how much competition there is in your area.


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## SolarGary (Sep 8, 2005)

Hi,
Another option that has become popular is a 2 by 4 wall with bats coupled with rigid insulation board on the outside. This has the advantage of not letting the wall studs thermal bridge through the wall.

The Mooney wall is another option: http://www.builditsolar.com/Projects/Conservation/MooneyWall/MooneyWall.htm

But, it depends some on what your winter climate is like.
How cold is your climate?

Gary


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## TnAndy (Sep 15, 2005)

About impossible to give any useful figures. Spray in foam, for example, is going to vary depending on the contractors in your area.

I wouldn't even bother pricing fiberglass batt for 2x4 walls.....you're building a house that should be around 50 years from now with insulation that wasn't enough for your climate 50 years ago, when energy was a whole lot cheaper.

Using any stud wall construction, you ought to also figure on at least 3/4" of foam board on the outside of the studs because the studs themselves become a significant heat loss point when you step up to 6" batts or foam in place insulation. Wood only has an R value of about 1.1 per inch, so a 6" stud ( 5 1/2" + 1/2" of sheathing) only comes in about R-7 versus R19 for fiberglass, and way on up from that using foam.

(Edit: As Gary said.....we were replying at the same time)


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## Gray Wolf (Jan 25, 2013)

I'm not even sure if 2x4 exterior walls are allowed anymore. But 2x6 is better anyway.

One thing. Shop it around. When we built our 3,500 sf house I planned on insulating it myself. I shopped and found an outfit (gale contractor services) that put fiberglass insulation in cheaper than I could buy the materials myself.


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## TnAndy (Sep 15, 2005)

Yeah, same here on fiberglass. Got a company that will install it as cheap or cheaper than you can buy it from the BigBox stores. They get VOLUME pricing when the buy it.


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## ET1 SS (Oct 22, 2005)

I did a lot of research before I built our house.

I decided to combine two types of insulation to get the best of both.

I sprayed 1" - 2" of foam, and then I hung 9" of fiberglass batting. 

The foam is pricey, wow. But it has great benefits that nothing else can touch. It is a structural epoxy, and it totally seals all air leaks. Much more than an inch though, does not add any more to the other benefits, and it is only R-8.

Fiberglass is cheap. So by combining these two, we got everything that each of them has to offer.

It is like combining steel rebar or micro-fibers into your concrete. 

I have seen many ICF demos, at a concrete plant and at the annual fair. I really do not see much of any benefit to ICF. I guess it is better than woodstick/sheetrock. But anything is better than woodstick/sheetrock.


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## Jim Bunton (Mar 16, 2004)

Thank you all for your responses. 

Gary,
I live about 60 miles SW of Chicago on a farm in the middle of open fields. Temperature wise we usually run within a couple of degrees of Chicago. Colder in the winter and hotter in the summer. A lot of nights in the teens or single digits, days in the twenties to low thirties. 30 mph winds 50 mpg gusts are expected. Wind dropping to single digits are the exception. WE usually get below zero 5 or 6 days a year.

ET1 SS,
How thick are your walls?

Painters wife, 

We just watch a show on that and it looked interesting. How did it compare price wise? Unfortunately price will be a concern.

What type of painting does your husband do? I do mostly residential repaints.

Jim


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## ET1 SS (Oct 22, 2005)

Jim Bunton said:


> Thank you all for your responses.
> 
> ET1 SS,
> How thick are your walls?


Our house is steel, basically a steel warehouse or airplane hangar. There are a few steel girders that support it all, but there are no interior load bearing walls. 

The walls would be a fraction of an inch thick, except for the 1" of foam, 9" of fiberglass batting, and 1/4" of wood paneling.

I made our window sills to be a foot deep. With trim they mate nicely with the interior surface of our walls.

I think that to say a foot, would be the short answer.


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## TnAndy (Sep 15, 2005)

Mine are about 10". Double 2x4 wall separated by a 1" air space except at the top of the wall which has a 3/4" plywood plate spanning the top of both walls. Interior studs on 16" centers, exterior on 24". 1/2 plywood sheathing on exterior with another 1/2 of foam out from that. 30lb felt with vinyl siding and brick about 1/2 and 1/2.


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## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

Jim Bunton said:


> Thank you all for your responses.
> 
> Gary,
> I live about 60 miles SW of Chicago on a farm in the middle of open fields. Temperature wise we usually run within a couple of degrees of Chicago. Colder in the winter and hotter in the summer. A lot of nights in the teens or single digits, days in the twenties to low thirties. 30 mph winds 50 mpg gusts are expected. Wind dropping to single digits are the exception. WE usually get below zero 5 or 6 days a year.
> ...


Simple small footprint makes it very comparable in price and allows you to save money by having smaller heating equipment and air conditioning costs up front and in the long run.

Husband is a painting contractor and also wildlife artist.


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## Virgil (Sep 29, 2009)

I would also recommend double wall construction using standard 2"x4" method... On the outside of the exterior sheathing install 1" extruded foam board, the pink or blue board, with all the seams taped... Use multiple layers of 3 1/2" fiberglass insulation for all of the perimeter walls inside and out ... This is the easy part of the job if you are going to do it yourself... Use 3 1/2" wall insulation between each of the vertical studded walls... Than install additional rows of 3 1/2" fiberglass insulation lay horizontally which crisscrosses the vertical fiberglass insulation within the space between the double wall construction... This helps with the thermal break between the interior of the house and the exterior... If you figure on at least 6 or 8 inches between the studded walls you could install at least a couple horizontal rows of the fiberglass insulation... We have used this building technique on older houses that we owned and it has made a world of difference on long term heating cost... For all of the walls 3 1/2" thick unfaced R13 rolls are the only size of fiberglass that is needed... That simplifies material purchase somewhat... However, nothing is cheap... An added air infiltration barrier and radiant heat reflector would be to install the foil faced 1/2" or 1" 4'x8' sheets of polysiocyurate board under the drywall... If that is acceptable with the local building codes... Thermal short paths in all construction are tough to resolve... Insulate, insulate, insulate... Spray foam installation usually requires hiring a crew with the equipment to do the job... normally with that is added cost... so I can not speak to that... I am a DIY type... 

Virgil ...


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## SolarGary (Sep 8, 2005)

Jim Bunton said:


> Thank you all for your responses.
> 
> Gary,
> I live about 60 miles SW of Chicago on a farm in the middle of open fields. Temperature wise we usually run within a couple of degrees of Chicago. Colder in the winter and hotter in the summer. A lot of nights in the teens or single digits, days in the twenties to low thirties. 30 mph winds 50 mpg gusts are expected. Wind dropping to single digits are the exception. WE usually get below zero 5 or 6 days a year.
> ...


Hi,
You can use the home heat loss calculator to get a pretty good idea what your home heating bill will be for your location for various levels of insulation: 
http://www.builditsolar.com/References/Calculators/HeatLoss/HeatLoss.htm

It also gives you a pretty good idea how much heat you are losing in the various cateigories: walls, ceiling, windows, ... so you have a better idea what to concentrate on. Let me know if you have any problems using it.

I would 2nd the votes for the double wall construction with cellulose fill. From what I've read, it works well, and since its already within the skill set of framers you will get less push back on using it.
Here is one example: http://www.builditsolar.com/Projects/SolarHomes/MAZeroEnergy/MAZeroEnergy.htm

Gary


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## ET1 SS (Oct 22, 2005)

Virgil said:


> ... If that is acceptable with the local building codes... Thermal short paths in all construction are tough to resolve... Insulate, insulate, insulate... Spray foam installation usually requires hiring a crew with the equipment to do the job... normally with that is added cost... so I can not speak to that... I am a DIY type...
> 
> Virgil ...


Here in New England we need higher R-values.

Fortunately DIY spray-on foam is available and it is so easy to use.


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## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

Here is some SIP pricing examples.

http://www.valubuild.net/prefabmodularhome.asp


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## Virgil (Sep 29, 2009)

ET1 SS ... I wasn't aware a DIY could rent spray-foam equipment.... Are you referring to the equipment the commercial installers use..??? If so, where do you rent this equipment up your way...??? Side note.... How do you guys do the high lighting of other member's quotes...???? I see the text icon above but, it doesn't seem to do anything for me.... 

Virgil...


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## TnAndy (Sep 15, 2005)

Virgil said:


> How do you guys do the high lighting of other member's quotes...????


You mean like this ^ ??

Hit the quote button at the bottom of the post you want to response to, and the post you're replying to goes in quotes. You can remove as much of the post as you deem necessary. ( as I did )

Or are you referring to something else ?


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## ET1 SS (Oct 22, 2005)

Virgil said:


> ET1 SS ... I wasn't aware a DIY could rent spray-foam equipment


I am not aware of that either.





> ... Are you referring to the equipment the commercial installers use..??? If so, where do you rent this equipment up your way...???


It is marketed in a 600 bd ft kit. I think I went through 15 kits.

Each kit has two tanks, with an A part and a B part, hoses and nozzle.

A and B mix in the nozzle, chemical reaction heats it to 200F it expands to foam, it sticks to everything.

When your done the tanks, hoses, and nozzle are all disposable.

Touch-n-seal foam, is the generic copy of Dow's Fomofoam.

http://www.touch-n-seal.com/twocomp.htm

I got it from here: 

http://www.efi.org/wholesale/


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## Virgil (Sep 29, 2009)

TnAndy said:


> You mean like this ^ ??
> 
> Hit the quote button at the bottom of the post you want to response to, and the post you're replying to goes in quotes. You can remove as much of the post as you deem necessary. ( as I did )
> ?


OK TnAndy... I think I got it.... Thanks much for showing me how to do that... Let Me see if this works... now.. 
Virgil...


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## Virgil (Sep 29, 2009)

ET1 SS said:


> It is marketed in a 600 bd ft kit. I think I went through 15 kits.
> 
> Each kit has two tanks, with an A part and a B part, hoses and nozzle.
> 
> ...


Well thanks for the feedback on the spray foam kits... I was not aware of such a product... Certainly have not seen anything like that around here... May I ask what kits did you use on your project... You indicated that you used 15 kits.... What did you do with the empty propane looking tanks afterwards...??? The efi.org Massachusetts company seems to sell only to company's and organization which do weatherization programs....On their website indicating restricted participation to eligible customers... How did you purchase the foam kits from them...??? ... I assuming you had to use some sort of breathing and personal protection clothing during the foam spraying operation... Perhaps, you could comment on that.... 

Thanks... Virgil...


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## ET1 SS (Oct 22, 2005)

Virgil said:


> Well thanks for the feedback on the spray foam kits... I was not aware of such a product... Certainly have not seen anything like that around here... May I ask what kits did you use on your project...


I used the 600 bd ft kits.





> ... You indicated that you used 15 kits.... What did you do with the empty propane looking tanks afterwards...???


I threw most of them in hog pens. They think the bottles are pig toys. 





> ... The efi.org Massachusetts company seems to sell only to company's and organization which do weatherization programs....On their website indicating restricted participation to eligible customers... How did you purchase the foam kits from them...???


I called them. I asked about pricing and shipping. I paid, and they shipped.





> ... I assuming you had to use some sort of breathing and personal protection clothing during the foam spraying operation... Perhaps, you could comment on that....
> 
> Thanks... Virgil...


I got the MSDS sheets, I read them. No breathing stuff is required. I left the windows open.

Loose over-spray drifts a bit. When spraying directly overhead, some of the foam settles on you. It fully encases my beard. I had to use kerosene to get it loose.

Then I shifted to wearing a mosquito hood.


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## Virgil (Sep 29, 2009)

OK... Thanks for all of the info...


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## Jim-mi (May 15, 2002)

What kind of a price tag for a "kit" . . .??
Are they the only company offering that product . .??


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## Virgil (Sep 29, 2009)

Jim-mi said:


> What kind of a price tag for a "kit" . . .??
> Are they the only company offering that product . .??


This site has info and prices: www.foaminsulation.net/spray-foam-insulation/

Which I think is the same link that ET1 SS listed also... It's not cheap....


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## Virgil (Sep 29, 2009)

Jim-mi said:


> What kind of a price tag for a "kit" . . .??
> Are they the only company offering that product . .??


Jim-mi... I just did an expanded search via Google... It appears that Home Depot also carried a similar two canister foam product... But,,, It seems they have discontinued it... However,,, There are other companies that sell these foam kits.. Google.... FROTH-PAK 200 etc... and a bunch of sites should come up... This apparently is a Dow Chemical product... One site listed I saw was, www.awarehousefull.com 

Virgil...


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## ET1 SS (Oct 22, 2005)

Jim-mi said:


> What kind of a price tag for a "kit" . . .??
> Are they the only company offering that product . .??


Back in 2006. I contacted the manufacturer and asked for a local distributor. They referred me to EFI, as my nearest distributor [two states away]

If you contacted the manufacturer, they would likely refer you to a distributor near you.

Back then I paid around $400 - $450 per kit, each 600 kit can cover 1200 bd ft. A large part of the price was the shipping. If I had to go again, I would drive there and haul it myself. [save a bunch]


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## ET1 SS (Oct 22, 2005)

Virgil said:


> Jim-mi... I just did an expanded search via Google... It appears that Home Depot also carried a similar two canister foam product... But,,, It seems they have discontinued it... However,,, There are other companies that sell these foam kits.. Google.... FROTH-PAK 200 etc... and a bunch of sites should come up... This apparently is a Dow Chemical product... One site listed I saw was, www.awarehousefull.com
> 
> Virgil...


Dow's product costs more, the generic costs less.


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## Virgil (Sep 29, 2009)

ET1 SS said:


> Dow's product costs more, the generic costs less.


The awarehousefull site company seems to be out of Jersey.... For the Froth-Pak 620... 600 board feet kits are listed at $649..plus $95 shipping cost...!!!.. They carry both the throw away and refillable canister types...


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## ET1 SS (Oct 22, 2005)

Virgil said:


> The awarehousefull site company seems to be out of Jersey.... For the Froth-Pak 620... 600 board feet kits are listed at $649..plus $95 shipping cost...!!!.. They carry both the throw away and refillable canister types...


Sounds right


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## 12vman (Feb 17, 2004)

This be like livin' inna cooler... 

http://biohome.net/


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## wy_white_wolf (Oct 14, 2004)

I had my cabin spray foamed and 3 1/2" of fiberglass on top of the foam on the roof panels. It's an A-frame cabin.

Totaled out to @4800 board ft of foam and 400 square feet of fiberglass. Total cost installed was $2800.

If you have very much you want foamed forget about doing it yourself. Look at the price given above. That's over a $1 a board foot and you have to install it. I figured it was going to cost me over $6000 if I had done it myself.

WWW

WWW


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## fullmetal (Nov 2, 2013)

i agree with the idea of a inch and a half or so of foam then close to a foot of cellulose of fiber glass working together. as a hvac technician i will say this NOTHING has even half the return on investment dollar for dollar as insulation.


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