# Cache Gun



## 50ShadesOfDirt (Nov 11, 2018)

In a recent thread for buried caches (survival forum), I had a content listing being worked up that would fit in a Survival Ammo Can (SAC); to recap:

1. cash: $100's, 20's (flame-proof bag), coin rolls
2. weaponry: .22 handgun/ammo, hunting knife
3. BOB-stuff: utility tool, flame tool, life-straw, med-kit
4. knowledge: RaspberryPi (RPi) w/ 5" touch display, ryobi battery & (pocket) inverter, USB/SD keys w/ knowledge files. 

Items 1 & 3 were easily done.

Item 2 fell by the wayside, as I didn't have any inexpensive .22 handguns laying around, and apparently these can't be had during an election year ... bummer. I need 3 to meet the cache rotation scheme, and Keltec and others just can't seem to meet demand. Is it possible/feasible/_safe_ to make a .22 "zip gun" (something with at least a barrel & firing pin, or thereabouts) that could go in the cache until the current buying frenzy subsides? Haven't been successful in finding an online .22 plan that fits the need. Should I switch to a sawed-off shotgun tube design (if it fits, and such are available)? I stuck a .380 in there, and lost tons of room due to the gun's size & ammo (50 rounds).

Item 4 help request posted in "computers" forum ...

Any other suggestions for item 2?


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## GREENCOUNTYPETE (Jul 25, 2006)

could you make a liberator style pistol Yes 

the Liberator was a gun by which to get a better gun made by the GM signal plant they were a smooth bore 45acp single shot with 5 rounds in the grip they came in a box with instructions and a wooden dowel the correct size to eject the spent case . the boxes had small parachutes and could be air dropped over occupied France.

you may be better off with some short machetes or butcher knives and the book ALL IN FIGHTING All-in Fighting: Fairbairn, W. E.: 9781847348531: Amazon.com: Books

the book was written by the guys who trained OSS in WWII 

by the end of WWII marine raiders were using short machetes and 10 inch butcher knives sometimes re-handled or reground 

often finding the more stiletto type knives to be to brittle and break to easily a more flexible steel lasted better even if it dulled faster 

guns are a little hard to find this year , cities burning , lack of police response because they are dealing with riots , election , pandemic it all added up to the most gun sales in a single year and it isn't even over yet.

I am how ever of the opinion that you need to have a few guns that you are proficient with , it is a tool like any other it needs a trained user to be effective. that keeping and maintaining you your skills and some good tools you will be more effective than a cheap tool stashed in cashes.
the same hand saw in the hands of a craftsman is a fine tool capable of great work or a binding nearly useless tool in the hands of someone who does not know how to use it 

i suppose there is room for both schools of thought


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## 50ShadesOfDirt (Nov 11, 2018)

So, the original WW2 liberator led me to the deer gun (en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deer_gun), which seems closer as an ideal (for a diy cache gun) to:

a single-shot barrel, reusable, with a removable hand grip
a derringer ... all forms of which seem, for something so "simple", to be premium-priced, more so than a Keltec .22 at roughly $200

I'm trying to find the plans for a deer gun, to see if it's feasible to build ...

There's a "zip pen" for a .22 ... doesn't make sense to put 50 rounds of .22 in a cache, if the pen itself won't hold up to 50 firings, until I can get to other guns. Maybe all of these diy things were one-shot use only? If so, then I have to wait on a Keltec .22 or similar.


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## 50ShadesOfDirt (Nov 11, 2018)

A slam-gun (12-guage) seems inexpensive, but components nor ammo fit in a SAC ... not aware if there are slam-guns for .22 ... none of this seems to be feasible. it looks like I'm waiting on Keltec or other inventory to open back up, in some number of months.

Only a derringer (or a Keltec .22) seems to fit the bill for putting a handgun into a SAC ... sigh ... need a bigger cache system ... and the little one (SAC) was "firing on all cylinders" up to this point!


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## GREENCOUNTYPETE (Jul 25, 2006)

Like this ALTOR Pistol 9mm Single Shot Handgun | Cheaper Than Dirt

for 129.99 at a local store you can probably pick up a 22lr/22mag combo Heritage , they may not be the best but they have worked for a lot of guys as a trap line gun 

make sure to really seal up 22 ammo it isn't tightly sealed in the case from moisture 22mag is better


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## GREENCOUNTYPETE (Jul 25, 2006)

a cashes is a hope that it will be there that the container will be ok and that you will be there to get to it 

I think better to keep fighting the good fight for out rights and keep practiced up on the tools you keep with you 

you can do a LOT with a bolt action 22lr , talked to a number of people who have dropped animal bigger than deer you need to be perfect in your shot placement 

an native woman in Alaska dropped a polar bear with a 22lr yes she shot it like 14 times 

nothing that can't be taken in NA with a 30-30 at reasonable distance you can buy them second hand still although a lot less available currently , you can relaod for them and use them and be very proficient with them. I was talking to a guy whos grandfather in Native in AK and bought a Winchester m94 in 1950 he has dropped around a 1000 moose and bear on their subsistence permit over the 70 years and never felt he needed any other gun he was very good with that one tool 

casting your own bullets in a 30-30 is an option many molds available 

you can make everything from a cat sneeze round that is a 30cal round ball loaded in a 30-30 case with a tiny charge of powder makes not much more than a pop but carries 2X the weight of the 22lr bullet 

bolt action center fire rifles are very dependable something in a 308 or 30-06 that you can stock some replacement parts for and keep running the rest of your life


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## 50ShadesOfDirt (Nov 11, 2018)

I appreciate all the comments GP ... I do indeed have long guns everywhere (.22, 30-30, 20-guage) ... just need to cover the scenario of house burning down; I could theoretically lose everything, as some have posted about in other forums.

I look at the SAC caches as a springboard to getting back up and running quickly. Perhaps another cache will ultimately be needed for long guns & over-sized cache items.

When you think about a house fire, certain things can be done to spread items around so no one building being lost really affects the others; a wildfire throws all that out the window, and there I believe things have to go underground or WAY offsite.

I missed the Altor, so off to investigate that ...


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## GREENCOUNTYPETE (Jul 25, 2006)

I worked a fire clean up many years ago I had been the last electrician to work on the place that burned down and I had extensive knowledge of how the building was wired. 

I spent 2 days working with the fire inspector learned some interesting stuff 

no the fire was not my fault the owners neon sign burned the place to the ground 

one of the things I found interesting was where the run to an outdoor lighting went through the concrete floor just a couple inches below grade the insulation on the wiring was all still in tact it was a 6 inch pvc pipe through the poured concrete floor with some fiberglass insulation stuffed in it.

right next to that hole had been the big air compressor the aluminum heads of the air compressor were meted in a puddle next to that hole to tell you how hot that fire was 

you could store a rifle or a few in the basement or crawl space keep it dry , under your control and for very little money have a nearly fire proof way to keep things with some block and some sand


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## 50ShadesOfDirt (Nov 11, 2018)

That sounds reasonable, but I don't know if it meets my requirement to get at something "quickly".

In a house fire, how long to dig through the rubble, etc. Somewhat similar problem to a wildfire, where the forest burns to the ground ... ashes would be easier to dig through, but, in each scenario, who knows how long before the "authorities" let you back in ...

I noted in a 2018 colorado wildfire where it was weeks before I could get to a piece of property that had burned over ... fire was ongoing in some areas, there was forms to fill out, proofs to provide, homeowners perhaps got in before raw land owners, etc. Finally, there was a calendar date where everything was open, and no authorities at the boundary.

If something catastrophic happens, I need access within 24 to 48 hours, to help in getting back to normal ... my plan was to locate the cache away from the structure(s), handling the house fire scenario. In a wildfire, assuming I got 24-hours notice (and not the 1-hour notice of the 2018 wildfire), I could get at cache locations and clean them out before the lockdown; won't be getting in anytime soon _after_ the wildfire.

I believe this all points to "layers of defense" (a cache in many spots), to cover every possible reasonable scenario ...

The scenario possibilities/problems do make for exploding heads ...


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## justascout1 (Jun 4, 2019)




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## GREENCOUNTYPETE (Jul 25, 2006)

your on person tool , how fast is your draw

your primary/minute tool you keep at a minutes distance 

your backup tool(s) a little longer 

you back up to the backup 24-48 hours 

Layer four 3-7 days 


admittedly I do not have all these layers 

I will be hunting my Minute tool in the morning a 308 rifle that carries ammo in the pouch on the stock that can always be ready to head out the door in less than a minute.


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