# Am I spinning too loosely?



## PKBoo (Apr 10, 2008)

I think I'm not spinning tight enough  I started plying the white BFL last night, and as long as there's tension on the singles, they're fine. When there's any slack, they basically look like pencil roving. The singles are very thin (this is the thinnest I've ever spun - I think it's going to be fingerweight once plyed!) Could that be why too?

The yarn I'm using to make the shawl also seems like roving in some places. I'm not sure if you can see it from this picture, the close-ups are not as clear...









It doesn't seem to affect the knitting - it is turning out ok. But will it make the knitted item weaker if I am not putting enough twist in?

When I first started spinning, I read that over-twisting leads to coarse (not soft) yarn, and I tried hard NOT to do that. Now I'm wondering if I'm under-twisting....


----------



## Marchwind (May 10, 2002)

It looks okay to me. Looks like a balanced yarn. If you are just using it for a shawl it will be fine. If you are knitting socks or something that will be getting a lot of wear and tear then you may want it a bit more tightly spun.


----------



## gone-a-milkin (Mar 4, 2007)

I would try plying it harder. The underspun feeling in the singles can be balanced more with a stronger ply. 

Worth a try.


----------



## lathermaker (May 7, 2010)

This may be a really dumb question, but when you plyed this yarn did you run the wheel the opposite direction of what it was spun with? As in, Spun clockwise, plyed counter-clockwise???


----------



## frazzlehead (Aug 23, 2005)

When you spin your singles, you want them to 'feel' like they are overspun, because some of the twist will come out when you ply (as you've discovered). 

Here's a test you can do while spinning your singles. Spin a good chunk then stop. Get your orifice hook ready and hold it in your hand (you'll see why in a sec) - pull several inches of singles back out through the orifice and then hook your orifice hook onto the length of singles in about the middle. Drop the orifice hook and it will act as a weight - the yarn will twist on itself and you'll get an idea of what it'll be like plyed up. 

Different fibres want to be spun differently - Southdown and other short stapled fibre needs high twist or it falls apart, Icelandic likes to be spun loosely, most of the alpaca I've worked with was somewhere in the middle (depends a lot on how it's prepared, too). Sock yarn needs high twist so it'll wear well, but something you're gonna full later on is best done very loosely, perhaps just as a loosely spun single not even plyed at all.

In other words, "too loose" is really too vague - it can be "too loose for the intended purpose", but sometimes really loosely spun is what you want! 

I'm not very helpful, am I?


----------



## PKBoo (Apr 10, 2008)

Frazzle - you were VERY helpful! All of you were! Now I know what is meant by "the yarn will tell me what it wants to be!" So if I am going to spin for something specific (like socks), then I have to be aware of how I spin before I start. Most of the time I just sit down with a pile of fluff and start spinning. It all makes sense now woohoo! :rock: I LOVE that orifice hook trick - I'll try that now on the alpaca I'm spinning. Thanks for all the tips! :goodjob:

lather - I did spin the singles clockwise and ply counterclockwise. So I will have to twist my singles a little more than what I'm doing. I SEE how some of that twist comes out now! 

GAM - I am treadling my little feet away on these BFL singles ~ sheesh! 

So one more question - Marchie and GAM, you talked about "balanced" yarn. I've read about z-twist, and s-twist, and if you knit with an unbalanced yarn, your item can slant in one direction instead of being straight. But how do you KNOW that your yarn is balanced? Is there a test for it before you knit? Or when you are spinning?


----------



## gone-a-milkin (Mar 4, 2007)

I have really found that with plying I need to pay attention to when I let go of the yarn. 
For me, I have more control if I dont release the twist on each section of plied yarn until I get my fingers up to the orifice.
Let go too soon and the twist travels into the new part and doesnt STAY PUT.

A balanced yarn will hang straight when you take the skein off the niddy noddy or swift. 
The whole skein doesn't spiral up on itself. 

Some good articles from knitty.

http://knitty.com/ISSUEwinter07/KSwoeply.html

http://knitty.com/ISSUEfall07/KStwistoffate.html


----------



## PKBoo (Apr 10, 2008)

Wow GAM - thanks! Great articles, and something I definitely needed!

I've been using the "soak and slap" *AND *the "weighted twist setting" for EVERY SKEIN I spin!!!!  

So test first, then make corrections... :bash:

Off to practice - THANK YOU!!!!


----------



## Marchwind (May 10, 2002)

A very easy way to test for balanced yarn while you are spinning, it's similar to Frazzles idea whit the hook. When you are plying, stop at various points. Pull back on the yarn so some of it comes out of the orifice. Allow the yarn to just loosely hang there between your fingers holding the end and the orifice. It should just hang in a perfect 'U' or a smile . If the 'U' or smile is canted or is looking like it wants to twist then your yarn isn't balanced or at least that section isn't. You can check your yarn periodically and adjust your spinning.


----------



## flannelberry (Jul 14, 2005)

I think that's good advice Frazzlehead.


----------



## flannelberry (Jul 14, 2005)

I have to say that I have notoriously unbalanced looking singles. I have found though, that when wet finished or plied they aren't so much. If you're dyeing (haha) to know, take a section and wet finish it to see if it's balanced. 

When I spin a singles for the U shape, it ends up too tender in plying. I've (finally) learned to over spin my singles so my plied isn't so tender (meaning breaks apart, poufy weak bits, that sort of thing).

The other thing is that yarn is usually never so tender that it can't be used SOMEWHERE. For me the default is weaving because the warp offers a bit more structure -it's not all up to the yarn. Just straight tabby (that's plain weave, right?) can make a gorgeous piece out of tender yarn.


----------



## Callieslamb (Feb 27, 2007)

So if your yarn turns out unbalanced, what can you do? I am getting ready to ply 2 bobbins and I am afraid that my spinning has been every which-way - loose, tight, bumpy, thin, very thin.......Is it still usable if it's unbalanced?


----------



## Marchwind (May 10, 2002)

Callie yarn is always usable for something. You just have to either spin for the project or choose the project for the yarn. It's a learning thing the more you spin the more you will learn this stuff and understand how it applies. I'm sure your plied yarn will be beautiful and very usable.


----------



## Callieslamb (Feb 27, 2007)

I've already decided to felt some of what I knit. I just need to find TIME to do it. I've been spinning every day. I'm still a mess at it. Thin to thick! Thick to thin......LOL!!!!


----------



## PKBoo (Apr 10, 2008)

I just N-plyed the loose singles of the BFL, and when I took it off the niddy noddy, and wow - sproingy twisty crazy! It's soaking now, and I'll let it dry before I check again, but it's definitely overspun. I've just sat down and spun up till this point, so this is good - makes me more aware of what I was doing. 



Callieslamb said:


> I'm still a mess at it. Thin to thick! Thick to thin......LOL!!!!


Callie - that's NOT a bad thing! You can make some really cool stuff with that "ART" yarn :nanner: I've been spinning for a year and a half, and I still feel like a beginner  But as long as it's fun and I enjoy it, that's all that matters


----------



## susanne (Nov 4, 2004)

i think a single is only under plied if it does not hold together under slight tension. the real problem could be with too much twist as every yarn will feel like a rope.
your yarn looks lovely and i think very nice for a warm shawl because there is a lot of air in your singles. i bet it feels very soft and squishy


----------



## Marchwind (May 10, 2002)

Callieslamb said:


> I've already decided to felt some of what I knit. I just need to find TIME to do it. I've been spinning every day. I'm still a mess at it. Thin to thick! Thick to thin......LOL!!!!


Good idea what will you make?

As for the thick thin stuff? PKBoo and Susanne are right. It will change with time. Learning to control your drafting triangle. It won't be much longer and I'll be happy to help you.


----------



## flannelberry (Jul 14, 2005)

Callieslamb said:


> Is it still usable if it's unbalanced?



You bet - just find the right use for it. Thick and thin is great for shawls and scarves.


----------



## flannelberry (Jul 14, 2005)

PKBoo said:


> But as long as it's fun and I enjoy it, that's all that matters


I could not agree more. We're not depending on our yarn the way people used to - and if we were there'd be such a different culture around it we wouldn't even be having this conversation. 

We're doing this as a hobby - as in fun - so really, what else do you need besides enjoyment?


----------



## flannelberry (Jul 14, 2005)

susanne said:


> i think a single is only under plied if it does not hold together under slight tension.


I have to tell you - as the Mistress of Tender Yarn - you can spin a singles that holds together and poofs apart when plied because it's just too lightly spun. When I spin it feels like rope to me - too tight and hard - and makes a lovely yarn when I ply it. 

I actually found that once I learned my idea of spun is too light - especially if I'm plying, I've been enjoying it more and not having as many frustrating moments of having to figure out why my yarn isn't working!!!


----------

