# Out of pocket house building project



## bobp (Mar 4, 2014)

We lost our first house on 40 acres, which we built a several years ago due to a severe loss of income. In the turmoil of this foreclosure i decided we wouldn't go down without a fight :hobbyhors and purchased 30 acres af very nice rural land. 19 pasture 11 woods. 

We started off ok had a new road built into the building loccation. It took 52 tri-axel loads of gravel to get it where we felt it was solid enough to last a lifetime, and hold the concrete trucks that would be coming soon.
Currently we are sitting at the 'ready to pour the slab' phase. 

We were just informed that the landlord where we currently rent has sold the place and we must be out by June...UUUGGHH! well this needless to say has put a bit of a dent in our timetable... June is right around the corner... 
DETOUR:
Due to the time crunch, and to save money in the long run, as well as make my available time for actual on farm construction more efficient we have developed a plan B!
We are now looking at purchasing one of the 16x40 portable buildings (no Porch). We are ordering it this week to have itput on the other side of our property to live in until we get the house done.
(So it's not wasted money, i'm approaching this with the mentality of it being a rental cabin when we move into the big house)

I'm going to do blown cellulose, 1/2" drywall, paint... several E-glass argon filled DP windows. 1-16x12 BR, 2-12x8 BRs 1 bth, middle area being kitchen, dining room/LR......We'll build a deck on 2 sides, and i can expand quite simply from the side if necesary.... Thinking 2'x2'x4" pads every 10' under it to set the blocks on so it don't settle....3 blocks high.... finish the skirting with native stone.....this allows a step down for the deck, and into the addition.... i'm thinking 16x40 as i get the time and money??? It's tight but no more than alot of apartments..

Does anyone have any advice on finishing one out? Do they really sweat like i keep hearing?


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## gweny (Feb 10, 2014)

I have much residential construction experience , but there are so many different products on the market. Could you post a pic or link to help me understand what you mean? Your post foundation sounds fine, but even that is hard to comment on without seeing the site. What kind of soil is there? Slope/grade? How far to bedrock?


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## RonM (Jan 6, 2008)

I could live very comfortably in a 16x40 building, providing it had plenty of windows and a small porch or deck.....


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## wy_white_wolf (Oct 14, 2004)

bobp said:


> .... Thinking 2'x2'x4" pads every 10' under it to set the blocks on so it don't settle....3 blocks high....


Not near thick enough to carry the weight. The pad propably need to be at least 12" thick. I also don't think they cover a large enough area. Consider a 6" stem wall on a 12"x6" footer. That would be 109 square foot of footer to support the building. Your 2 X 2 pads only provide 40 Square foot of support. If you increase them to 3 x 3 and put them on 8 foot spacing along the outside walls that increases it to 108 square foot of support.

Does your location have a problem with frost heaving? The pads would also need to be set below frost line.

WWW


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## haypoint (Oct 4, 2006)

What is a "16 by 40 portable building"? You mean a house trailer? A portable classroom? A shipping container?


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## jwal10 (Jun 5, 2010)

Maybe??

....James


https://www.google.com/search?q=16'x40'+portable+building&rlz=1T4AURU_enUS501US507&tbm=isch&imgil=TywbcTVTOehZ5M%253A%253Bhttps%253A%252F%252Fencrypted-tbn3.gstatic.com%252Fimages%253Fq%253Dtbn%253AANd9GcSs7IjNQmkqOmJ1Yi8Wg7_1iv2Rkj1EmfEIObNVIrg772FLauvKWg%253B640%253B480%253BfTXtklL3zgINUM%253Bhttp%25253A%25252F%25252Fwww.portablebuildingmall.com%25252F&source=iu&usg=__oj-nDZC_y3B9qyhAr59LUYr-ayw%3D&sa=X&ei=cfsXU_RHwfugBPnNgJAM&ved=0CHIQ9QEwCA&biw=1138&bih=491#facrc=_&imgdii=_&imgrc=TywbcTVTOehZ5M%253A%3BfTXtklL3zgINUM%3Bhttp%253A%252F%252Fwww.inventionstoday.com%252F16x40_inside.jpg%3Bhttp%253A%252F%252Fwww.portablebuildingmall.com%252F%3B640%3B480


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## bobp (Mar 4, 2014)

It is one of the Graceland portable buildings. Its the 16x40 cabin/ storage building, regular gable roof. But with no porch. It will start like the shed but end up similar tho the cabin pic.

It has 4 4x4 runners lengthways under it at 4ft spacings I beleive.

the support I had in mind was a 2ft square pad 4in thick every 10 ft down each runner. 16 pads then 24 in high via 3 blocks per pad.
Soil is black topsoil. Its a former old farm stead. With rocky clay below.
This should be plenty if I get below the topsoil?

Trade out the doors for a 9 lite steel door, to be installed in the side.
several windows, which we will add. 
Big deck. Gutters. Underpin with native stone.
small package unit for heat and air.


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## bobp (Mar 4, 2014)

We are doing this to make it easier to build our house, which I gave started. But this building needs to last where its being put. I intend to rent it to recoup the gunds that I used putting it in. Thus we will 'cute it up' so to speak. Make it easy to live in, efficient ect.


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## homstdr74 (Jul 4, 2011)

A good friend of mine bought some raw property, put a nice trailer house on it, and he and his wife lived in it while he built their home over a period of several years (he was working full time). When the home was finished, they moved in and sold the trailer. 

I guess at least part of what I'm getting at is.....are you sure you want to rent to others? Do you know the problems associated with that?


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## PD-Riverman (May 24, 2007)

Bobp, I personally would just run to Lowes and get the material to build this, More for your Money that way---but thats your call.

Keep in mind that if you are planning to divide the 16 wide into 2 8x12 bedrooms they will be more like 7x12, which will work. Making the beds raised where the dresser/etc will fit below them saves alot of space.

I personally would rather use a 4" 8x16 solid block as a pad than the 2" 2x2 pads that will probably crack if the base under them is not perfect. I would just go a little closer with them to support the extra weight.

I would stay away from a tin top. I have a Modified storage building with a shingled top and I have no problem with it. I might if it was unheated and not opened but a few times a year??.


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## PD-Riverman (May 24, 2007)

homstdr74 said:


> I guess at least part of what I'm getting at is.....are you sure you want to rent to others? Do you know the problems associated with that?


I have not worked a punch the clock job for 14 years---Because of rentals-----I see no Problem With renting! Not All Renters are Bad! Sure I have To clean up a Left Mess once and a while, do a Little repair. Its OK to have to work a day or two once in a while. Thats Just Part of renting.


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## haypoint (Oct 4, 2006)

Will the township allow you to live in it? Will the Township allow you to use it as a rental? Is 4 inch walls code for your area? What is your climate? Snow load, frost heave, ground moisture?
Sounds like it is a done deal. I wouldn't worry about a high quality of window in a moderately insulated building.
Yes, they sweat. The metal roof will rain on you every morning. You will need to order the building with sheets of foil backed EPS sheets an inch thick, between the tin roof and the rafters.


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## homstdr74 (Jul 4, 2011)

PD-Riverman said:


> I have not worked a punch the clock job for 14 years---Because of rentals-----I see no Problem With renting! Not All Renters are Bad! Sure I have To clean up a Left Mess once and a while, do a Little repair. Its OK to have to work a day or two once in a while. Thats Just Part of renting.


Yes, but not everyone is cut out to be a landlord.


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## wy_white_wolf (Oct 14, 2004)

bobp said:


> ...It has 4 4x4 runners lengthways under it at 4ft spacings I beleive.
> 
> the support I had in mind was a 2ft square pad 4in thick every 10 ft down each runner. 16 pads then 24 in high via 3 blocks per pad.
> Soil is black topsoil. Its a former old farm stead. With rocky clay below.
> This should be plenty if I get below the topsoil?...


The 4x4 runners are ment to be set on the ground where they have continuous support. Trying to raise them off creates lots of problems. Are they 10' long under there? You will have to support them where ever they have have splices. That would mean 8' between supports if that's what they used. They could also have used 12 or 16 footers under there. Anything longer than 10' and I think that 4x4 will not be big enough to support the span on 4' centers, if they can even on the 10' span.

You are also under estimating the number of columns needed. 16' wide on 4' centers would take 5 across as there are 4 spaces. 40' on 10' also takes 5 for a total of 25, not 16.

The perimeter support also needs to be larger as it is carrying the wieght of the walls and roof. If you keep them all the same size the building will settle faster along the outside than in the middle, causing the floor to crown. Might want to stick a few layers of 1/2 plywood between the block and 4x4s as spacers that could be removed/added as it settles.

4" thick pad is not thick enough to spread the wieght of the block across the full pad. What will happen is the pad will get point loaded under the block and try to break off anything outside the footprint of the block.

What is your frost depth? The pads will have to be set below that.

How do you plan on tieing this down? The 4x4, block and pad will all have to be tied together somehow.

WWW


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## jwal10 (Jun 5, 2010)

Why not focus all your energy on the home you are building. It will be summer when you have to move out, work on the bath and kitchen area. Sleeping can be arranged elsewhere.

If I was going to do this....Order what you want/need from them, cheaper in the end. Put house wrap on it, plywood and barrier under tin roof, no big front barn door, place door where you want it. I would want a front and back door. Put support blocks the same as mobile homes use. 4"x4"s probably need blocking 6' apart though. 4" walls are not code here but were used for years, fiberglass in walls and floors, blow in in attic....James


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## bobp (Mar 4, 2014)

Ok actually ordered it today. 
Took the options of radient barrier for the roof, and tyveck wrap.
The roof is decked prior to the metal instillation. The soffits and ridge cap are vented.
They never set them directly on the ground, in temporary set ups they use cap blocks and then a min of 1 8x16 on that, every 5 ft under all 4 runners.
In my case he reccommend 24" piers on the 5 ft spacing. This makes sense to me. I beleive 24" x 8" piers with the 24x24"x 4" thick 'pad' on top every 5 ft down each runner, would be sufficient. Runners are set in on the outside 12" then spaced evenly.
Frost line is at the most 12 in.
4" walls are standard in this area. Although 6 would be better.
No relavent building codes apply. Its in a rural area, in a rural county.

Using cellulose...
R12-14 in the walls, R 40 in the ceiling. Attic is vented. Floor will be R19 with FG.

Decent double pane windows...are not all that more expensive than cheap ones.
I have found new ones argon filled with E glass, for 135 bucks. 3x5s. 100 2x3s.

And all lumber is treated.


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## bobp (Mar 4, 2014)

24" driven anchors every 5' also. 

We are in NW Arkansas. Our climate is normally tolerable. Moderate 75% of the year.
the building will fit the enviroment better than a mobil home, and I expect itll last longer as well. Thus it should be easier to rent.? I also intend to offer rent exchange for farm labor, @ a rate of 10 bucks an hour...we are putting in and expanding an orchard/vinyard so the labor help will be great.

I have been driving 23 miles in my days off from the Fayetteville area to the 'farm' to work on the house and farm, for beter than a year.....actually being on site daily will be a relief.

so now with more facts....available what am I missing?
.


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## Dixie Bee Acres (Jul 22, 2013)

Treated lumber in an enclosed living area, maybe not a good idea. What is it treated with?

Remember after hurricane Katrina, many people living in fema trailers were getting sick from fumes or vapors off gassing from the formaldehyde treated wood.


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## bobp (Mar 4, 2014)

been awhile... just thought I'd update this thread. 

We did get it set up. went with the piers... they ended up being more like 36" than 24... the soil at about a foot changes to clay sand.... I took 2x4s and built 24"x24" pads and laid them level on top of the piers... it all worked out fine...

we ended up modifying the interior framing just a bit... it had standard A frame trusses. I took the stringer board off of the middle half and modified it and vaulted the ceiling.

we went with the decent windows E glass double insulated, and argon filled. we put 7 windows in...insulated with cellulose. Went with the dense pack method, as I couldn't get a contractor to drive out that far for the small footage. The attic has 30-36" of blown in cellulose. The attic has crown and eve venting, and I cut in 18"x18" gable vents for access and extra ventilation. I use the 36" x 12" eggshell block between every rafter to let the air move up from the eve to the crown. I also am spraying the under side of the floor with foam. I have the canisters on hand I just haven't had the time.

I 'underpinned' it with 4" IMP closed freezer panels left over from work. I'll lay native stone on the front of them with a 2x6 cedar shelf cap. 


it has 3 BR and 1 bath... the Kitchen /LR area is tight but comfortable.. I spend most of my time working on the job or the farm any way so it's fine for now.. 

We made everything function able and easy to use. plenty of cabinet space etc.. Thinking of an addition this summer... we'll see how it goes. 

She has commented a number of times that a shop would be better use for our money that going on and building the big house... I'm not sure I'm on board... but the addition of a 40x60 shop would be a God Send... AND not throwing every dime into another construction project will allow the farm to grow a bit faster... we're at 64 fruit trees, 2250-2400 blackberries, 1500+- raspberries, some grapes, and a bit of some other stuff going on too... 

So we went from a 3400+ sq ft to a cracker box but we are living there and we haven't killed each other yet lol, so maybe we'll be just fine...


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## Bellyman (Jul 6, 2013)

Dixie Bee Acres said:


> Treated lumber in an enclosed living area, maybe not a good idea. What is it treated with?
> 
> Remember after hurricane Katrina, many people living in fema trailers were getting sick from fumes or vapors off gassing from the formaldehyde treated wood.


That one popped out at me, too. Maybe just your runners or maybe floor joists are treated?


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## bobp (Mar 4, 2014)

I'm not horribly concerned with the treated lumber issue.
They're not using arsenic like they were a fee years ago. The siding it like T1-11, its smart siding and is listed for the use. It is commonly used for residential siding. Its also installed over tyvec.

The sub floor, joists, and runners are treated as well.

However it is high and dry and not subjected to stressors and decomp that allows for major issues. We installed time over two of the rooms with proper prep including sealed 1/4" cement board. Didn't want cracking grout.
The rest is laminate on rolled pad. I suppose if the treated sub floor don't get us the fermaldahyde in the laminate will. Lol bottom lone the floor being high and well vented it should be fine.


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## Beest (Nov 7, 2014)

bobp said:


> we ended up modifying the interior framing just a bit... it had standard A frame trusses. I took the stringer board off of the middle half and modified it and vaulted the ceiling.


Did those trusses have do not modify tags on them? Any truss I have ever worked with had do not modify tags on them. When you mess with the webbing and cords you mess with the load rating. I assume you do not have snow issues but the trusses do have to carry themselves, sheeting, roofing material and fight gravity. Did you get some form of collar tie in place to keep the walls where they belong? Or engineering to tell you how to build the webbing? I.E keep the ridge from trying to touch it's toes?


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## bobp (Mar 4, 2014)

I moved the bottom cord up 10". I added / laminated the top chords by 4' and added secondary webs. Both sides of the raised space are walls that I added and would call partial load bearing as they are built directly under a truss Webb. The Webb is laminated on the back side for solid attachment of the dividing wall. 

I kept the basic design, just raised the bottom Webb and beffed up the top webs from beyond the bearing point to well beyond the 'new bottom chord' location. 

Honestly my guess is these trusses were framed on site. No tags. Framed on site is not in common though.


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## fishhead (Jul 19, 2006)

I'd really like to see some pictures. It sounds like you have a goal and are working hard to get there. That's inspiring.


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## Bellyman (Jul 6, 2013)

Something else that has been rolling around in my brain is this...

You mentioned getting a 16' X 40' building. Others have mentioned buying the materials and building it yourself.

Putting up a 16' X 40' building, you have 112' of walls enclosing 640 square feet. If you turn that into a 28' X 28' building, you still have 112' of walls but you're now enclosing 784 square feet. 

At the last two properties I owned, I built a 12' X 24' shed. (That was the size that was appropriate for the location.) And they were fine for what they were. But at the location previous to those two, I had a shed built for me (the price was so cheap that I didn't even think I could build it for what they were going to charge me) that they delivered in two halves, and I believe it amounted to two 12' X 28' sheds built to be put together with the common wall mostly open and the roof to come to a peak right along the top of that common wall. That was the nicest most "roomy" shed I've ever had. I could easily see that being converted into a small house.

Just something that came to mind. Best of luck!


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