# Crossing Katahdin to Shetland



## goto10 (Oct 5, 2009)

I recently bought a katahdin ewe for milking since I didn't have many other options when it came to dairy sheep. I like that they are not huge and that they shed. I posted a test ad on craigslist to see if I could find someone who's ram I could use this winter. I got nothing back and I am thinking I might have to buy a ram myself.

So I found a shetland ram for sale. I like that they are small and hopefully easier to deal with. 

But I have some questions about offspring. I don't really plan to keep any but does anyone know what this cross would produce? Would the kids be polled and shedding or not? And would they be good for meat at all? I imagine the shetland would decrease the lamb size quite a bit whic hI also like for ease of lambing. 

Also I see there is another thread about this but what does anyone think about keeping a shetland ram with a few disbudded nigerian bucks? Right now i only have one full grown buck but I also have a new buckling who will be the same age as the ram(1.5 months) and I wonder how all will get along.


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## beoircaile (May 2, 2006)

I've not done a Shetland x Katahdin cross, but have had Shetland sired lambs with several other breeds. It does decrease lamb size for sure- and I imagine the fleece would partly shed or roo easy.

HOWEVER- JMO- but I would NOT house a horned Shetland ram with a non horned intact male. Too much risk for injury. I have several rams (horned/not) and only one of my horned rams doesn't try to use the horns on the other rams. The rest are more than happy to bang heads... The only reason the horns do much damage is that they make contact first with the polled animals' head. Usually it's the heads that make contact so they all are on a level playing field. The horns tend to sit "proud" of the head just enough to cause a problem.

And the only reason my one horned ram doesn't do it- his horns are straight up instead of curled. So he can't make head to head contact. I treat him more like a polled ram- I don't even house him with my 2 horn ram...


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## LibertyWool (Oct 23, 2008)

I don't raise Shetlands nor Katahdins, but it is my understanding that the first cross will not shed out and will need to be sheared. 

I would also think about small lambs not being able to reach the mothers teats. That may non be a problem for you if you are going to milk her and bottle feed the lambs (or if she is short), but something to ponder. 

The polled gene tends to be dominant, but that does not guarantee that you won't get a percentage of horned sheep. I have one horned lamb born (out of about 25 lambs) each year from a recessive horned gene passed on from a Merrino X ram I used (He was polled by the way).

I do have a good friend that raises Icelandics and the horns do cause birthing problems for her. They make the head just that much bigger to come down the birth canal. It may be just her sheep, but another thing to think about.

So if it was me, I would look for another ram.... I would probably try to pickup an intact feeder lamb, as he should be ready to breed by 6 months....


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## goto10 (Oct 5, 2009)

I don't really have the space for just any old feeder ram and my ewe is only 3 months so she wouldn't be ready to breed til winter. 

What about keeping the ram with nigerian does. Would a ram be aggressive towards females?


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## PNP Katahdins (Oct 28, 2008)

I would suggest you keep looking until you find a small or medium-size Katahdin ram or ram lamb. It is a pretty easy lambing breed to start with. You can put a FREE Wanted listing on the Katahdin Hair Sheep International website. URL is http://www.katahdins.org/ and select "Classified Ads" on the left menu. It's a little confusing but Wanted ads should be free to anyone, not just members. 

There are a number of Katahdin breeders and owners in your part of the USA. Someone may have one you can use before they send him to market, if they know you just have one ewe to breed.

Katahdin ram lambs can breed at four months, guess how I know this. The rams will breed goat does if housed together but nothing will come of it. It just annoys the does and wears out the ram.

I've never seen a Katahdin/Shetland cross, is the ram horned? The lambs might or not be, and they would probably not shed much. What they don't shed would be junk.

Our ewes give enough milk for their lambs but I've never tried milking them. Sheep milk is mainly used for cheese. It is very rich and can be frozen safely.

Good luck in your venture. Let me know if you need help with a Wanted ad.

Peg


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## goto10 (Oct 5, 2009)

Well the breeder I got my katahdin ewe from, who was actually a 4-h girl although I'm sure her parents foot the bill for the huge flock they have, said I couldn't breed back to her rams. 

I did get her for cheesemaking and it's just for me so I don't need any crazy volumes of milk to feed the masses. 

Maybe I'll try these classified ads but I also have to make a quick decision since the shetland ram in question has was to be neutered today but the breeder us holding off a few days ti lI make a decision And yes this ram does have/will have horns or I probably wouldn't thinking this purchas over so much.


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## ShortSheep (Aug 8, 2004)

I've seen the offspring of Shetlands used occasionally as sires over another breed, they just don't make good crossing sires. The lambs tend to be smaller and narrower. They are just too unimproved. They are small and can be easy to handle, but they can still be real snots to work with. 
Shetland rams, expecially horned ones, can be little Napolians. My top few rams are always struggling for dominance. I'll bet he'll hurt your bucks. I'd look for a polled ram if I were you. Just being honest.


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## PNP Katahdins (Oct 28, 2008)

goto10 said:


> Well the breeder I got my katahdin ewe from, who was actually a 4-h girl although I'm sure her parents foot the bill for the huge flock they have, said I couldn't breed back to her rams.


It sounds like you have plenty of time to look around. Their rams may all be related to your ewe.

Peg


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## LibertyWool (Oct 23, 2008)

goto10 said:


> I don't really have the space for just any old feeder ram and my ewe is only 3 months so she wouldn't be ready to breed til winter.


After you use him for breeding, you put him in the freezer... That is if you like lamb....


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## goto10 (Oct 5, 2009)

I get the impression that no one here raises shetlands...

okay shortsheep does but they don't recommend them.


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## beoircaile (May 2, 2006)

I used to- but the rams can be too much of a headache. In general- they are small rams with big attitudes... Our big Corriedale ram is a ***** cat- I'd take 3 of him to 1 Shetland ram (and I used to have several).

I just don't see an advantage to using the Shetland on a Katahdin. If anything, find a Barbado or Painted Desert or something like that. Check with your county extension agent- they might know of someone with available ram lambs.


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## beoircaile (May 2, 2006)

Or maybe a Dorper...

Try here:

http://www.marylandagriculture.info/category_info.cfm?categoryid=31

Hampstead looks like the closest one to you.



> Del Acres , Hampstead , MD
> 
> Dorper/Katahdin crossbred sheep. Market lambs available June through December. Enrolled in Voluntary Scrapie Flock Certification Program.
> email: [email protected]
> ...


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## goto10 (Oct 5, 2009)

I just found someone 15 min from me that will offer shetland ram service. So I have that to fall back on. I am also concerned with the fact that I did buy a smaller ewe lamb, one of the smallest in her flock and I don't want any birthing problems. I imagine a shetland cross lamb will jsut fall out of a katahdin.

How big are the dorpers compared to the katahdin rams? I know people like to cross the two for meat lambs and that seems like I good option if I want to eat the lambs as well.


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## lasergrl (Nov 24, 2007)

I second the idea of a barbado (painted dessert, blackbelly, texas dall, black hawiian) as a sire. That way your lambs will be small, and will definately retain the hair. The cross you speak of will have wool. I crossed a painted dessert onto a shetland cross and the lamb had wool not hair. There are a few painted dessert breeders in PA. The lambs sell well, especially if colored.


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## jerryf (Apr 1, 2006)

I have had Dorset, Finn/Dorset, Romanov, Montadale, Tunis/Finn, BFL, Border Leicester cross ewes in past years. A commercial flock...some of those breeds are a lot of leg. They don't pay for the air from the ground to the belly

My Shetlands are stout deep and wide.My ewes weigh 90-100 pounds My adult ram 140#. They are great mothers, milk well, easy lambers-I go to check and the lambs are licked dry and up nursing. They are tame and personable. They eat less and have less of an impact on the pastures The only sheep I have had that will go out in the rain and after dark to graze. I shipped ram and ewe lambs at 6 months old weighing 55# and I got a $1/pound works for me.
I like all the colors and markings. 
Each to their own Whatever breed works for you
I am sold on Shetlands

Jerry


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## beoircaile (May 2, 2006)

But a Shetland as a crossing sire on a Katahdin would not be beneficial. When you do a cross, you have to think of the outcome. 

Using a Katahdin ram on a Shetland ewe? That might have merit. But not vice versa.


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## goto10 (Oct 5, 2009)

Okay now I found out that the guy who has the shetland ram, also has a finn/dorset ram and asked if I wanted to use that. So I said yes. It would make the lambs a lot more productive if I do decide to eat them or even just sell them. I think I'll be happy with that cross and I won't need to have my own ram!


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## Shannonmcmom (Jul 18, 2005)

I have katahdin/sheltand crosses. The lambs aren't that much smaller and we don't have many issues with rams dying. I have 10 rams together and 1 of them is a shetland with a beautiful set of horns.... We only ever lost 1 ram and I am sure it was from the horse kicking him and not the shetland because he was only a year old and didn't have much in the way of horns. I also have a jacobs ram in with 8 other rams... and none of them died. Maybe the difference is because some of them grew up together. The shetland ram was brought into my ram flock. He was a year when I put them together. They have been together for over 2 full years.

I get some very nice coats and so far no one has complained about the meat. Sometimes flavour is a better point rather than just quantity. I can tell from one breed to the next who I am eating. The katahdin/shetland blend makes good flvoured meat. Also I have never had issues with my lambs not being able to reach their mom's teats. Sometimes I have problems with the lambs being too big and look for the nipple up by the backend....


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## goto10 (Oct 5, 2009)

Shannon, where have you been these past few days! hahaha

That's all really great to hear. I still have the option of going with the shetland ram if I decide to. I know people also eat pure shetland rams so it's all about preference. Some people's preference is just 'big'


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## ShortSheep (Aug 8, 2004)

goto10 said:


> I get the impression that no one here raises shetlands...
> okay shortsheep does but they don't recommend them.


 No, I think Shetlands are wonderful and I very much recommend them. I just can't recommend them as terminal sires. Nor do I think it's a great idea keeping a mature horned ram in with polled bucks. I'd hate to see your bucks get killed. I had a polled purebred Shetland ram kill two other rams over this last winter. Some can be very gentle, some can be real stinkers, expecially once they get into the terrible twos.


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