# .410 Shotgun ?



## Philbee

What do you use a .410 shotgun for? What kind of game animals or pests do you use a .410 on?

You folks seem to have a lot of practicle knowledge and when it comes to a .410, I have none. I see where Taurus makes a revolver that shoots a .410 and also .45 Long Colt. I also see where some folks think that a .410 shotgun is a good home protector and I think that 000 shot can be purchased. This should be an interesting thread.

Philbee


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## swamp man

I was taught to shoot with a .410 single shot, the same one my mother, aunt's, and uncles learned on. My great grandma was a widow with no help at all, and she fed her kids with that old shotty during the depression. Before long, my daughter will learn on it.
I've taken everything from dove to squirrel to whitetails (our deer are on the smallish side down here) and most everything in between with it. That said, it ain't my first choice for anything. The low pellet capicity is a limiting factor, and effective wingshooting with a .410 can be pretty dang difficult, especially for a novice.
I'm not familiar with the Taurus mentioned, but I can't imagine that a handgun would be able to hold much of a pattern beyond a very short distance or be effective in hunting capacity. I'd sooner spend a few bucks on a Mossberg 12 gauge wth screw-in chokes, and have something far more versatile.
As for home protection, anything is better than nothing, but a .410, especially one in a handgun would be waaaaaaaaaay down on my list of options. If you want versatility in the field and solid home protection, your $ might be better spent on the aforementioned 12 gauge Mossberg (which is a heckuva' value), and a quality used handgun. Good used S&W revolvers aren't hard to come by for a very fair price, and the German Sig retired police pistols are a bang-up deal if a 9mm suits your fancy.


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## alleyyooper

I have used an old Ivers Johnson 410/45 when I was just learning. Shot squirrels, partridge, cotton tail rabbits and snow shoe hare with it. Shot skunks, ***** and possems and some rats at the local dump when we had extra spending money for shells to waste. Used it with slugs my very first year deer hunting and would never recommend one for that to any one.

I gave my children a 20 ga. to learn with. Can be loaded as mild as a 410, can also be loaded as strong and a mild 12ga.

 Al


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## YuccaFlatsRanch

Much prefer a 20 gauge Magnum. Its light to carry, can shoot light loads and also bulk up the loads in magnum. It really does about all a shotgun needs to do - all in one.

I have a 12 gauge Double barrel for effect - nothing ends an argument faster unless its a 12 gauge pump that someone can HEAR, but not necessarily see, and a 20 gauge automatic mostly for quail and dove hunting. The sound of a pump racking a shell into the chamber ends a lot of disagreements.


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## fishhead

I switched from a double 20 ga. to a single shot .410 for hunting ruffed grouse. Even with the reduced range and fewer pellets my shooting average was still good. I made the switch mostly because the blast made my tinnitus go nuts and the .410 is a lot quieter. An extra bonus was the lighter weight made it easier to carry for hours.


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## JJ Grandits

I have a couple of .410's. One of my favorite small game guns is a sxs in .410. It's light and very quick. Most people think that the .410 is a kids gun because it is so light and has little recoil but they are totally wrong. With the size of the load it fires and limited range it more of an experts gun. the 2 1/2 inch shell only carries 1/2 oz. of shot while the 3" magnum carries 11/16 oz. Anyone who disagrees can take one to a trap range and be humbled. One problem I have is the cost of ammunition. I love the 3" mags but they run upwards of $13 to $16 a box. That is a lot for shotshells. My favorite load is a 3"mag loaded with 5 shot for small game. As far as home defense any shot gun is a good gun but I prefer a 12ga. if I have my druthers. Here is where everyone will disagree with me. Im not an advocate of 00 buck for home defense. Police and the military will use them but are shooting at much greater ranges. the average home defense shooting is at 17' or less. Your shooting across a room, not the backyard. At that distance 00 buck will barely start to exit the wad even on a cylinder bore gun. for home defense I prefer a game load. At that range it will not only put someone down, it will hit like a meat shreader. I have proved this at my club several times. Place two half inch pieces of plywood together at the range. Load up with a 1 1/8 oz trap load in 7 1/2 shot (12ga). At twenty feet it will blow a hole through both pieces of wood the size of your fist. I discussed this with a police captain who was the armorer for their SWAT team. He agreed with my premise and said that they are now using light polymer loads for home enterees. They made this decision after testing them on a road killed deer. His term was "massive destruction". Light loads have less chance of colateral damage then heavy loads. They also terminate all their energy at once, leading again to "massive destruction". The bottom line is that if you break into my house and I have a 12ga. loaded with a high brass shell of number 4's, you are toast.


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## hunter63

YuccaFlatsRanch said:


> - nothing ends an argument faster unless its a 12 gauge pump that someone can HEAR, but not necessarily see, and a 20 gauge automatic mostly for quail and dove hunting. The sound of a pump racking a shell into the chamber ends a lot of disagreements.


Sorry boys, but IMHO, this has to be the worst, most dangerious idea I have ever heard of. And it keeps keeps popping up over and over again.
Watching too many movies.
I agree the 12 ga is a great home protection firearm but.....

If you plan on using your pump gun, (or any gun for that matter), you better already have a shell in the chamber and be ready to rock and roll at the flick of a saftey.

That said, the .410 is a very under rated, as it can be used to kill almost any thing smaller than a deer. Deer with slugs, is something that I wouldn't try unless I really need to kill one and haveing no other options.

The limit isn't power, it's number of "shot" per shot, so you have to be a good shot, shoot more like a rifle.
You don't have all those extra pellets covering a big of an area.

As far as the hand gun versions, (at least in my SXS derringer), good for snakes, rabbits in the grader ditch, but patterns out of a 3-6" barrel are in the 6 ft circle range at about ten feet.
The .45 LC tumbles as do the .410 slugs.
The Home Protection loads 3-#000 pellets are impressive at close range, sorta of a last ditch type of thing.
I guess I would prefer to keep the bad guys out just a tad further, (read-as far as possible).

Again in my opinion, (and actually having one/shot one), they are a compromise at best. An expensive toy at worst.

If you want a hand gun for protection get your self a "for real" decent wheel gun. 
And if you must shoot shoot out of it, get your self some CCI shot shells.
Yes, I know the are kinda pricey, but come on how maney are you gonna shoot?

Of course if Santa brought you one yesterday, "Ya, der, hey, them Judges are really cool............"


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## Ed Norman

DW has a double barrel 410 that she uses around the place to kill pests and varmints. We load it with 4 or 5 shot. You won't be hitting anything with multiple pellets, so you need higher pellet energy with everything that does hit. 

She also uses it for shooting forest grouse. Around here, that means you see some standing by the road or trail and they walk over behind a lodgepole or flap up into a fir, and you kill them with a slingshot or arrow or pistol or rock or stick. She prefers her 410.


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## MELOC

if you are going to use a slug for deer, the .410 is a good choice. i think they fly better. that makes the .410 a pretty versatile gun and a good choice if you only have one gun. they are good for small critters that you plan to eat...they are really good "barkers" for squirrel. 

we used to shoot bats with them. that was quite a challange.


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## Bearfootfarm

I personally wouldnt want a shotgun less than 20 ga for anything other than a toy to play around with.

And bird shot as a defensive load is not a good idea. It makes a nasty SURFACE wound, but lacks in penetration. Shooting holes in plywood doesnt prove its effectivness on flesh


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## frugalbunny

Being a skinny little kid this was my first shotgun. It made a great at home gun. It was efficient at snake killing, and at killing varmints trying to get in the chickenhouse. 
You needed to be kind of close to your target as you do not have a big shot pattern or too much power. 
You could put deerslugs in but then it like a rifle. You know because the 410 are so slim barreled.
If I could only own one gun it would be a 16 gauge pump. Plenty of power, good variety of shot size and big shot pattern.


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## MELOC

i have a broken remington wingmaster 16 gauge. i loved that gun. something broke in the action...a sliver of metal fell out and i never had it checked out.


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## radiofish

Recently I was shopping for a at least one used .410 shotgun for my nephews. I couldn't find one anywhere, and I don't want to buy them a brand new Remington 870 .410 shotgun at almost $400.00 dollars... My 12 gauge shotguns are a bit much for my 11 and 13 year old nephews to shoot while they visit.

My dad still has his sXs Stevens .410 shotgun, that I used while begingng to hunt at 12 years old. Long before I got my 1st 12 gauge pump shotgun - a Winchester model 1200.


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## Bearfootfarm

> Recently I was shopping for a at least one used .410 shotgun for my nephews


.

Find an 870 20 ga Youth Model and it will last them forever. If they outgrow it, you can put a full sized buttstock on it


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## foxfiredidit

I like a 410 but they are good only for what they are good for, and maybe thats just to give some young'uns a first experience with a gun. I killed my first deer with a 410 and a slug. Squirrels and rabbits are fun to try for and it's good for snakes and varmints. I've even floated around the bayou at night and taken bullfrogs sitting at water's edge instead of using a gig. 

As for home protection, I suppose a fellow would use whatever he had handy and loaded at the time it was needed, whether that's a 410 or not. The poster above said something about the sound of racking in a shell with an 870, which I think has the most distinctive sound. That's a good point, cause I don't leave mine with one in the chamber but it has four in the tube. Just don't rack that shell in until you have it pointed in the right direction with the safety off and your finger on the trigger. The home invader is going to get awful itchy when he hears the sound, so go ahead and shoot it when the shell slams home. That's my 870's name, "Slammin' Sam". The key is to get to it quick and outshoot your opponent. You may not get the first shot off. Do any of you folks name your guns? My 25-06 is "Lay Down Sally", I dunno, but I think they have personalities.

But I do enjoy the 410. I call it "The Blackstock", cause the stock was replaced with one I had to whittle out of a piece of maple board and I painted it black.


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## Oldcountryboy

I've always wanted a 410 double barrel shotgun to do some squirrel and rabbit hunting with. When I was growing up I had a hunting buddy who used a 410 single H&R while I used a 20 guage savage. He could kill just as much as I could with that rifle. One reason why was cause his barrels were much longer then mine and concentrated the shot in a smaller pattern while my little savage with a 20 inch barrel spread out too much for distance. 

One of these days I'll own that 410 double barrel shotgun.


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## swamp man

Oldcountryboy said:


> One of these days I'll own that 410 double barrel shotgun.


Amen, brother. My li'l long-barrel single shot just points and shoots so dang good, I'd love to have me a similar side x side A nice 16 gauge over and under is way high on the "want list", too...
I ain't at all down on the .410 as a shotty chambering, but don't much see it as a beginner's gun, as a good candidate for the only gun on the homestead, or an effective pistol calibre.


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## Ed Norman

This year I got ahold of an old Belgian 410 side by side. Slim and trim and light and purty.


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## -TWO-

I have an old Savage 410 side by side, ugliest gun I've got but I've shot alot of grouse (ruff, spruce & blue) & rabbits with it over the years. A great little shotgun, give 'em one, the other, or both barrels at once. 20 years ago, a box of 410 shells was considerably cheaper then a box of 20 or 12. Now its the other way around. Go figure that one out. last couple of years I been using the 12 gauge more for that reason but I'm watching for a good sale so I can stock up on 410 again.


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## JJ Grandits

My sxs is a Balkiel (sp) from Russia. Remington is offering them and call them the Spartan. Of course with the remeington name they cost more for the exact same gun. It's not that pretty of a gun but is built to last several generations of hard use. It has an oversized trigger guard which is great for gloved hands. I think new they go for about $375-400 dollars. Not a bad price really considering it's built like a tank. It is a joy to carry in the field.


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## hunter63

foxfiredidit said:


> Do any of you folks name your guns? My 25-06 is "Lay Down Sally", I dunno, but I think they have personalities.


Well lets see........
There is "Elvira, Queen of Darkness", the Ruger 77M -7MM Rem mag, and her sister "Morticia" also a Ruger 77.
Then of course there is "The EBR" (Evil Black Rifle) and "Olga" the ugliest, self camoed, and slid around in the bottom of the canoe 870, you ever saw..... so on and so on.

If it was good enough for Davey Crockett, it's good enough for me............


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## denaliguide

Lucille's sound was all her own. No one wanted to shoot at the range with me. maybe it was the 21 inch bbl with the integral muzzle brake, and my handloads.
It was my main carry gun. No one had to ask where I was, they knew......LOL

DG:clap:



hunter63 said:


> Well lets see........
> There is "Elvira, Queen of Darkness", the Ruger 77M -7MM Rem mag, and her sister "Morticia" also a Ruger 77.
> Then of course there is "The EBR" (Evil Black Rifle) and "Olga" the ugliest, self camoed, and slid around in the bottom of the canoe 870, you ever saw..... so on and so on.
> 
> If it was good enough for Davey Crockett, it's good enough for me............


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## Va. goatman

I have a Mossberg 500 pump that I use on small vramints and snakes but it's kinda big and heavy I'm gonna find a H+R like I had when I was a kid A lot of people will tell you that you can't do much with a 410 but I killed a lot of pest and game with mine


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## flint

MELOC said:


> if you are going to use a slug for deer, the .410 is a good choice. i think they fly better. that makes the .410 a pretty versatile gun and a good choice if you only have one gun. they are good for small critters that you plan to eat...they are really good "barkers" for squirrel.
> 
> we used to shoot bats with them. that was quite a challange.




Please don't shoot bats. I understand the challenge they might present with
their flight patterns and all, but they're responsible for keeping mosquitoes from taking over the world. We _need_ bats, and they need us, or our protection. Many bats are protected by law and this law was enforced very recently in Indiana and Kentucky, and probably in other states as well. 

I do appreciate your insight on the .410, thanks for posting.


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## MELOC

this was back in the late 1970's and early 1980's before political and ecological correctness were in vogue.  it was also right after a "camping" trip to a house in upstate pennsylvania where we found hundreds of bats crawling all through the house and flying in huge swarms all through the yard as we tried to enjoy the summer evening. i guess it creeped us out a bit. i haven't shot at a bat in 20 years or so.


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## Ed Norman

Meloc, you shot some bats but we still have bats, so I guess you aren't responsible for their extinction. 25 years ago, a friend got a 10" TC Contender barrel in 410 and we spent a loud evening in his driveway trying to shoot a bat with it. As far as I know, none were hurt.


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## JJ Grandits

Please don't use a .410 slug for deer. Yes it will kill one but so will a .22.


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## flint

Meloc, bats used to creep me out to. I definitely am not politically correct myself and I would never do anything because it was in vogue (at least I would like to hope so), but I've been caving for twenty years and bats are like old friends now. If a home has an attic full of them during the warmer months you can simply close off their access after they have left the roost for the evening meal. They'll find another place to roost. As far as having them flying around in the evening while barbecuing or sipping ice tea on the lawn...they can only be entertainment, not a threat. Horror flicks did them a terrible disservice. I like watching them. When I was a kid I threw my little sister's shoe up in the air and about five of them made a bee-line for it till they realized it wasn't a bug by echo location. Amazing creatures. They consume tons and tons of mosquitoes each year. My step dad builds bat boxes, homes for bats, and we like to watch them come out in the evenings, like shadowy dive bombers in search of a meal (or fifty). I've been in little crawlways with them and had them fly past me, their velvet wings brushing my face. In other small crawls I've had them land on my shoulder and walk down my back and then take off again. I've watched cavers scrape them off the ceiling accidently with their helmets. It's a pitiful, sad cry they make when they're injured and it tears me up to think of people killing or injuring them. Their benefit to humanity far exceeds any inconvenience they might bring. They're friends to human kind!

Sorry, I'll get off my soapbox now.


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## hunter63

I put up a couple of bat houses, they eat their weight in bugs every nite.


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## MELOC

i respect you love for all creatures great and small. i am like that myself. if a black snake scares folks here at home, i will catch it and take it for a little walk and release it elsewhere. i don't disturb or harass wildlife i don't intend to eat. i even tolerate poisonous snakes...as long as they don't violate the "south forty" so to speak. fi i see a copperhead or rattler in the "north forty", i let it alone. as long as they don't violate my 100 yard child safety parimeter, we are good to go.

that said, you can't deny who you were. i shot at bats when i was young and that is how it is. i have grown out of that and i do appreciate how they control the mossies. 

cheers.


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## JJ Grandits

We all do stupid things when we are young. Some of it even holds over. If you don't believe me ask my wife. 
Getting back to shotguns, has anyone had any experiences with the 28ga.? They seem to also be growing in popularity. Do they fill a specific niche or are they a passing fad? Remember when they tried to start interest in the 16ga.a few years ago and it never took off. A friend of mine has a 16ga. model 37. He loves the gun but finding ammo is almost impossible. To be honest with the improvements of ammunition there really is no need for a slot between the 20ga. and the 12ga.


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## MELOC

i have never owned a 12 gauge, so i guess i am slanted to the 16 because that is what i always used. i have a single shot and the broken wingmaster and i love both of them. i guess the 12 was a bit too big when i first started out and then i never really needed anything else. if turkey hunting wouldn't be so restrictive in my WMA, i would probably have bought a 12 gauge mossberg 10 years ago, but since i had no real need for it, i never did.


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## Philbee

Thank you all for the information and it looks like you all enjoyed talking about your .410 shotguns! It is great reading actual experiences from real people and not just gun writers. ------ Philbee


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## JJ Grandits

If you are into shotguns go to shotgunworld.com,they cover almost everything. Check out the forums.


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## flint

MELOC said:


> i respect you love for all creatures great and small. i am like that myself. if a black snake scares folks here at home, i will catch it and take it for a little walk and release it elsewhere. i don't disturb or harass wildlife i don't intend to eat. i even tolerate poisonous snakes...as long as they don't violate the "south forty" so to speak. fi i see a copperhead or rattler in the "north forty", i let it alone. as long as they don't violate my 100 yard child safety parimeter, we are good to go.
> 
> that said, you can't deny who you were. i shot at bats when i was young and that is how it is. i have grown out of that and i do appreciate how they control the mossies.
> 
> cheers.


Hey Meloc,

I wasn't accusing of you of being a current bat killer  I didn't know one way or another. Had to make sure the bases were covered though  I shot two copperheads on the path to my outhouse a few years ago, kind of had me shaken up a bit because I routinely make that trip in the dark, with a flashlight of course, but a copperhead is pretty well camoflaged and stepping on one whilst walking to the privy would have possibly caused premature bowel activity. I have pets and friends with small kids visit sometime, so I thought it prudent to get rid of them.

Flint.


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## 2ndmouse

The only thing I use a 410 for is rats. In a crisis I guess you could use 410 slugs for deer if you got a lucky shot, or for self defense since it is about the = to a .40 pistol round.

I like a 20 ga for an all arund useful shooter, 000 buffered buckshot packs a punch from a 20, and all types of birdshot/game loads are available without the kick and weight of the 12.

but a 410 is a rat gun, and pretty useless for anything else with standard birdshot.


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## JJ Grandits

I guess I'll disagree with that. I use a .410 as a very effective small game gun. It is a challenge at the trap range.


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## GREENCOUNTYPETE

28 gauge does fill a bit of a nich , a freind how shoots a lot of sporting clays bought one for his wife , said they patern great better than a 20 i guess why i don't know but it is just right for her , she gets more birds in sporing clays with that than i would but they shoot competition twice a week as long as the weather is decent.

mostly i hear of it as a sporting clays gun


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## fishhead

I used my .410 3" with 7 1/2 shot to shoot ruffed grouse on the wing. It just meant taking closer shots but I still killed just as many at the end of the hunt.


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## hunter63

The effectiveness of any shot gun is the shooter, the only difference in range and power between a .410 and say a 10 ga is the number of bb's in the shell balanced with like powder load.

I picketed up both the .410 and the 28 ga barrels for the H&R Handi rifle, both shoot well, and I didn't have to buy the whole gun just the barrel.


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## 50calray

The Taurus Judge is a cool gun (.410/45LC) but not sure I would use it for a home defense gun. If you're looking for a shotgun to fit the bill, why not buy a Remington 870 for about half the cost?


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## Gregg Alexander

I have used 410's since I was 8 yr old. I have taken squirrels, rabbits, quail. I carry one now for killing snakes in the summer while **** hunting. U will find a 410 in my truck yr round , makes a good all around pest gun


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## pheasantplucker

haven't read all the other posts, so pardon me if I repeat what anyone else might have said. I don't own a .410 but from what I've gathered, they are good for when you're shooting in close cover (say a thicket) for things like doves, or squirrels, where your shots are going to be pretty close, and you don't want a huge load of shot ripping through something that nearby.


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## FB.Ironworker

i would definetly use a slug in the judge. don't own a 410. only a 20 , 12 ga rifled barreled shot gun. one bad gun.


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