# Cover crop under tomato's plants



## Ziptie (May 16, 2013)

I was thinking is there any reason not to plant clover under my growing tomato plants to keep the weeds down. I can't seem to find any info on this. 
Can any one think why this might be a bad idea?


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## jwal10 (Jun 5, 2010)

A lot depends on how you water, what variety you plant and your weather. A weed is any plant in the wrong place. I can see it growing tall, holding moisture, and everything rotting....here.



....James


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## kyweaver (Nov 30, 2009)

Do you mean dutch white clover? The perennial stuff? I don't plant it, but I leave it when I weed. Does that count as a cover crop?
Mine isn't a solid blanket so it's not really suppressing other weeds, but I hope it's improving the soil.
I know other people do use it and mow it really close before planting their tomatoes.


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## haypoint (Oct 4, 2006)

If you want to suppress weeds in your tomatoes, newspapers or black plastic are great. 

Clover isn't going to out grow many weeds, but will compete with tomatoes for moisture and nutrients. 

You might try creation of a section of garden that you cultivate all weeds every week or so, reducing the amount of residual weed seeds. Then plant clover and before the next round of weeds set seed, till the clover and weeds under. The added plant material and the N fixation of the clover will improve crop production the following season. 

Clover won't suppress weds in tomatoes. A hoe will.


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## oldasrocks (Oct 27, 2006)

MY mom makes the mistake of using straw for mulch. It just grows wheat grass. I use grass clippings at least 4 inches thick down the row. For keeping the weeds down between the rows we scavenge old carpets and cut them to fit. It gives you a nice non muddy place to kneel on too.

I grow the tomatoes between 2 cattle panels about a ft apart.


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## jwal10 (Jun 5, 2010)

DS plants his tomatoes (and other big vegetables) in big tree pots buried 8" in the ground in a row. He has T-posts set and ties the big tomato cages to them and keeps the plants trimmed up off the ground. He piles up a nice pile of compost over the pot. He has clover all around that part of his garden and weed eats it....James


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## bobp (Mar 4, 2014)

I used ladino as a test cover crop on newly planted blackberry. It out grew, and heavily competed with them. I went in and pulled them back a foot and things improved.

I think using the clover as a cover between the rows is a great idea, and green mulch would improve the soil tremendously. Run your push mower over it blowing it to the tomatoes as mulch. It'll take several mowings.


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## geo in mi (Nov 14, 2008)

Clover might take too long to get established, letting weed and grass seeds to grow. You might try some buckwheat after a couple of cultivations around the tomatoes. It should grow really good during the time the tomatoes don't need much tending(don't want to trample the buckwheat), then just before it seeds--about five to six weeks, mow it down and proceed to harvest the tomatoes. Sound like a plan?

geo


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## MDKatie (Dec 13, 2010)

A living mulch is a wonderful way to improve soil health and plant productivity. Having something growing helps keep weeds down, helps reduce moisture loss (especially when the alternative is bare soil) and keeps soil temperature down which helps on really hot summer days. 

Legumes add N back into the soil, and if you're going to water your garden anyways you don't have to worry about the cover crop competing for moisture, In fact, the benefits from reducing evaporation will make a big difference even if you don't water.

Some crops, like rye, are allelopathic, which really suppress weed seeds from germinating. You can plant your tomatoes and then plant a rye crop in the rows.


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## haypoint (Oct 4, 2006)

MDKatie said:


> A living mulch is a wonderful way to improve soil health and plant productivity. Having something growing helps keep weeds down, helps reduce moisture loss (especially when the alternative is bare soil) and keeps soil temperature down which helps on really hot summer days.
> 
> Legumes add N back into the soil, and if you're going to water your garden anyways you don't have to worry about the cover crop competing for moisture, In fact, the benefits from reducing evaporation will make a big difference even if you don't water.
> 
> Some crops, like rye, are allelopathic, which really suppress weed seeds from germinating. You can plant your tomatoes and then plant a rye crop in the rows.


 I donât think so. While plowing under a nice crop of clover increases fertility, I disagree that it could be helpful growing in the same row with tomatoes. Freshly planted clover is not going to overtake weeds. Instead it complicates weed control. On a hot day, bare soil will lose moisture, but a living plant will draw far more moisture on a hot day than bare soil. Millions of acres of vegetables are grown with black plastic weed protection. Seems obvious that if soil temperatures under black plastic isnât a problem, clover plants possible shading wonât help nor hurt tomatoes.
You are right, given enough moisture, the clover wonât be competing for moisture. It will, of course, always compete for NPK. Mature clovers add N, but freshly planted clovers arenât forming nodules that would help the nearby tomato plants.

But, heck, gardening is filled with experiments. Give it a try and enjoy the experiment.


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## MDKatie (Dec 13, 2010)

I disagree, haypoint. There are so many factsheets and webinars out there (google USDA Conservation Webinars) on the multiple benefits of green manures and cover crops. There are many studies being done now using interseeders to plant cover crops between rows of corn and beans. There is just so much great information out there on how beneficial cover crops are for soil health. Soil health improves greatly the more cover it has, and with increased soil health comes increased production. 

Now, I'm on the east coast where we don't (typically) have very long drought periods, though we do get some hot dry summers. I've heard some farmers out in the west deal with things much differently than we do here, such as letting fields go fallow for seasons to preserve moisture (which I question anyways). YMMV.


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## haypoint (Oct 4, 2006)

MDKatie said:


> I disagree, haypoint. There are so many factsheets and webinars out there (google USDA Conservation Webinars) on the multiple benefits of green manures and cover crops. There are many studies being done now using interseeders to plant cover crops between rows of corn and beans. There is just so much great information out there on how beneficial cover crops are for soil health. Soil health improves greatly the more cover it has, and with increased soil health comes increased production.
> 
> Now, I'm on the east coast where we don't (typically) have very long drought periods, though we do get some hot dry summers. I've heard some farmers out in the west deal with things much differently than we do here, such as letting fields go fallow for seasons to preserve moisture (which I question anyways). YMMV.


Perhaps the devil is in the details. 
I'm a big proponent of cover crops and interseeding in some cases. A crop of rye used to suppress other plants, plowed into the soil to increase vegetative matter. Plowing down a crop of clover works great, too.

I always plant oats and a mixture of clovers and grasses, using the oats as a cover crop. Oats grow fast, early, competing with some weeds and the clovers and grasses grow, a bit later, they aren't harmed by the shade and moisture competition. But they aren't tomatoes.

But planting clover into a few rows of tomato plants will not suppress weeds. Weed free wheat straw or black plastic will reduce the hours on a hoe. 

But feel free to see for yourself. 

I often see people set out to have a large garden. By mid-summer the interest has wained and the weeds taken over. If you can get the weeds mowed before they set seed, plant clover and give up, by next spring you could till in the clover and start again with some benefit from clover.


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## MDKatie (Dec 13, 2010)

haypoint said:


> I often see people set out to have a large garden. By mid-summer the interest has wained .


Well my interest wanes mid-summer, but it's more from the 95+ degree weather! :yuck:


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## oldasrocks (Oct 27, 2006)

Cover crops are intended to be plowed back into the soil before planting the main crop. They provide easy nitrogen for the new plants. NOT to grow along side the new veggies.

Use grass clippings. When put on fresh and green the N soaks into the soil around the plants while providing a cover to keep the weeds down.


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## MDKatie (Dec 13, 2010)

oldasrocks said:


> Cover crops are intended to be plowed back into the soil before planting the main crop. They provide easy nitrogen for the new plants. NOT to grow along side the new veggies.
> 
> Use grass clippings. When put on fresh and green the N soaks into the soil around the plants while providing a cover to keep the weeds down.


There's actually a lot of info now about having "green manures" growing along with the main crop. There are many benefits.


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## Scape (Jan 23, 2017)

Maybe not a cover crop but a companion planting is a fun way to experiment. I have been known to plant basil or lettuce or radishes with other plants or even flowers. Some are harvested before the tomato really gets going but never seem to hurt and perhaps help the young tomato plants. It does not help with weeding but for the same area of weeding you get multiple plants.


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## Ziptie (May 16, 2013)

Just to let you know I am reading this thread.

You made a good point about it takes time to get it established. What if you start the white clover about a month before you plant the tomato's. Instead of tilling it all under,mow it and plant the tomato's. Anyone try that?

I use black plastic and drip lines for over half of the garden. I was just thinking of new ideas as black plastic is some what speedy, but with the size of garden we have it needs it. 
I have raised beds and I do mow between the rows and put the cutting back in the garden, but it is only a tiny dent.

I have also tried mulching with hay/newspaper/cardboard. The rabbits and voles loved it, me not so much.


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## jwal10 (Jun 5, 2010)

How about just digging holes to plant the tomatoes, leaving all the rest in clover, year around. Mow and plant. Add compost to the holes and anything else you use (sulfur, epsom salts, etc). Put compost around the plant to help save moisture, keep down erosion when watering, keeping weeds down, and feeding the plants. Also makes pulling weeds easy. In the rest of the garden, only keep the rows mulched, the rest, between the rows can be mowed....James


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## geo in mi (Nov 14, 2008)

Ziptie said:


> Just to let you know I am reading this thread.
> 
> You made a good point about it takes time to get it established. What if you start the white clover about a month before you plant the tomato's. Instead of tilling it all under,mow it and plant the tomato's. Anyone try that?
> 
> ...


My experience with white clover--and ladino--is that it takes a full year to make a dense enough mat to keep down the weeds. Even then, there will be persistent grasses and weeds that will spring up and be a constant pain. My own way of getting clover established is to plant as early as possible after the soil has warmed up and become workable, make a good seedbed, but plant oats as a nurse crop. I let the whole plot sit there for all year, so as not to clip back the clover crowns. Eventually, those crowns will mature late in the summer, after the oats have browned out, allowing the clover to tiller out and take root. A couple of years ago, I found five gallon BBQ sauce buckets from a local rib shack at a good price. That was my intention--to plant white Dutch--let it mat for a year, then bury the buckets(with the bottoms cut out) and plant bush squash in the buckets. That would have allowed mowing, prevent the clover from getting around the stems of the squash,,--then move each bucket to a new location the next year and plant something else.

Unfortunately I wasn't able to follow up with that experiment due to the bum leg problem I've had....Plus, I didn't get a very good stand of clover, so pigeweed amaranth moved in pretty bad. I still have a lot of tasty smelling buckets, though.....

You might try a double experiment---use some buckwheat in a plot--and then use some crimson clover in another--that might work better. Both are quicker to fill in the empty spaces for weed control. Both are annuals, so plant them and mow down before they go to seed or you'll kick yourself next year...

geo


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## fireweed farm (Dec 31, 2010)

I plant alyssum, it's low to the ground, not perennial, and the benefits being that it's a nectary- meaning it attracts beneficial insects that will help pollinating your flowering crops.


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## Ziptie (May 16, 2013)

I have seen it. Is it fairly fast growing? I don't remember.


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## Bellyman (Jul 6, 2013)

The thing that I was more concerned about was using mulch to make a space around the stalk of the tomato plant that could potentially be nearly ideal environment (dark, warm, humid) for some things the tomato plant may not like so much, i.e. fungus, mold, that kind of thing. One of the reasons the area around the bottom of a tomato plant is often kept free of excess foliage and weeds is to allow lots of light and air movement around the bottom part of the stem, where nasties can really do a bad number on tomato plants. 

Not saying that all mulch is bad, just what popped into my mind when I read some of the posts.


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## Cyclonemom (Dec 5, 2015)

I'm sure every garden is different, but I've found black plastic to be the best tomato mulch for us. Significantly fewer slugs than grass clipping or wheat straw mulch. I don't know if slugs like clover, but anything that will harbor those little beasts is low in my tomato book!


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## sisterpine (May 9, 2004)

guess i am going with black plastic around my tomatoes but will have to cover it with something or the maters will get cooked roots. but i hate pulling weeds from around tomatoes.


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## Cyclonemom (Dec 5, 2015)

sisterpine said:


> guess i am going with black plastic around my tomatoes but will have to cover it with something or the maters will get cooked roots. but i hate pulling weeds from around tomatoes.


Sisterpine, here in northern WI we need to max the soil temps, so we use black. Our "season" is pretty much only Memorial Day to Labor Day, but some years, the soil temp may not even get to 60 by the 4th of July! But since you are in AZ, white or silver might work better for you since you get all of that wonderful (maybe, lol??) sun.


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## tired_gardener (Dec 14, 2016)

I think companion planting is great. You plant two plants together that complement each other. Farmers almanac says that these plants are good for tomatoes:

Asparagus
Basil
Beans
Borage
Carrots
Celery
Dill
Lettuce
Melons
Onions
Parsley
Peppers
Radishes
Spinach
Thyme

And these ones are bad:

Broccoli
Brussels sprouts
Cabbage
Cauliflower
Corn
Kale
Potatoes

http://www.almanac.com/content/companion-planting-chart-plant-list-10-top-vegetables


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## pointsevenout (Nov 29, 2017)

Are you determinate or indeterminate on the tomatoes?


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