# What the heck is this??? Pictures



## dunroven (Dec 6, 2004)

One of my goats just had this baby and the baby died almost immediately after being born. She came out in the perfect position, was born very easily, and then here are these 2 humongous lumps in her neck. They were about 3 inches long and about 2 inches in diameter, each of them. What is going on??????



















Please let me know if you have any clue of what could cause this.


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## freedomfrom4 (Jul 27, 2009)

If there is a vet school nearby they might be interested in looking at her for the learning experiance. Sorry you lost her I have no idea what it could be.


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## Laverne (May 25, 2008)

Maybe it is an undeveloped twin.


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## mamahen (May 11, 2002)

goiter

Cause
a. "Simple" goiter (known also as "colloid" goiter) of newborn kids is due to iodine deficiency in the pregnant doe's diet. Often, salt is sold without iodine included. Iodine should be added to the mineral mix of goats.

Signs
a. Defined, symmetrical enlargement of the thyroid gland.
b. The thyroid gland is located in the ventral part of the "throat latch" in the upper part of the trachea (wind-pipe).
c. Affected does have a swollen throat, kids are often born with little or no hair, act weak and often succumb to starvation.

Treatment
a. Does not improve chances of survival.

Prevention
a. Stabilized iodized salt in diet of gestating does.
b. Salt mix should contain at least 0.007% available iodine.



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## yarrow (Apr 27, 2004)

I don't know much about meat goats, but I believe I've heard that Boer goats, as a breed that is more susceptible to iodine deficiency...leading to kids born with goiters who die at or shortly after birth...
sorry 

susie, mo ozarks


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## mamahen (May 11, 2002)

Found this, too. Wonder if that's what's wrong with Milly?

*Goiter
Caused by iodine deficiency in the dam. 
Kid is normal at birth but suddenly develops an onset of muscular weakness or ataxia at 3 to 10 days of age. Seemingly it happens in late kidding seasons, but this is only a supposition. The kids do not seem to be able to suckle but they can swallow, they are also in a depressed state.*


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## mamahen (May 11, 2002)

http://www.tennesseemeatgoats.com/articles2/iodinedeficiency.html

Might try the treatment for the adult goats?


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## dunroven (Dec 6, 2004)

If it was a thyroid issue. This is the first time I have ever had this happen and we have had babies 5 years in a row now. I went out and she was pushing to deliver a twin, couldn't deliver it and I got it out, it was dead, and it had the same thing. Now Milly doesn't have these knots but her sister does, and the sister is doing very well. I lost 2 does that would have been 4 does for me so far. I have one doe left to kid. I wonder if I can do anything to prevent it, as she is so far along or am I looking at 2 or 3 more dead babies.

This just makes me sick.


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## Alice In TX/MO (May 10, 2002)

I'm on the holistic goats email list, and one of the main goat ladies recommends painting the underside of the dam's tail with iodine. If she is deficient, it will absorb into the skin over a period of time. I'll have to check again on how long it takes.


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## Alice In TX/MO (May 10, 2002)

I found this on Tennessee Meat Goats

Severe iodine deficiency can be treated more quickly by painting 7% iodine on a hairless part of the goat's body such as the tailweb. Free-choice feeding of kelp -- dried seaweed -- is probably the best method available. 

http://www.tennesseemeatgoats.com/articles2/iodinedeficiency.html

I'd sure start with iodine painting on all your adult females.


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## goatlady (May 31, 2002)

Yep, definitely goiter. Went through that 1 year myself with Boer/Nubian crosses, but also because I was careless and ended up with too close inbreeding via the buck.


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## dunroven (Dec 6, 2004)

Can I paint the iodine on them as well and maybe that will help them you think? I read too that brassicas will leach the iodine out and that may have been what happened. I'm not at all sure what brassicas are and if we have them in the hay we give. It is just plain old grass hay, cheap stuff. I didn't know anything about this brassicas. Anyway, let me know what you think about painting the babies. I still have Milly and Penny. Not a total loss for the year, but I'm going to get an iodine block, like Sherry has said in a past post, if I can find one here. Not sure if they have them here, but I'll see.

I'm also going to see about the powdered kelp. Boy, I really didn't need this, especially this year.

By the way folks, Milly is now getting up and coming to me to ask to eat. That's good news anyway!


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## Alice In TX/MO (May 10, 2002)

Brassicas are cabbage family veggies. Turnips, collards, broccoli.


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## Alice In TX/MO (May 10, 2002)

kelp

http://www.hoeggergoatsupply.com/xcart/product.php?productid=3484


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## dunroven (Dec 6, 2004)

Well, that's out. They are no where near where those things are. But can I treat the babies by painting them?


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## mpete (Mar 4, 2008)

Can I use the pictures for an educational thing?


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## dunroven (Dec 6, 2004)

If there is anything that can stop this from happening to someone else, please, yes, use them all you want. That goes for anyone. You ALL have my permission to share these photos with your goat raising friends. Please don't let this happen to someone else. I am now going to be 7 months behind in my breeding program, and I lost 2 of the most perfect little doelings to this. I just can't express how I'm feeling tonight about that. And I have one more doe to kid, any day now, and probably will either lose them or have problems like I have with Milly and Penny.


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## mpete (Mar 4, 2008)

I am sorry for your loss, but hopefully, as you said, we can help someone else. Thank you


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## Jcran (Jan 4, 2006)

Ok, a few years back I posted about my friend's herd of boers who were unintentionally fed "FALSE TANSY" or "flixweed" infested hay. It can be found in first cutting alfalfa and alfalfa/grass (becoming more prevalent)...over half her kid crop was born either with HUGE goiters, or hairless, or oversized or very tiny. False tansy or flixweed has a thyrogenic effect and inhibits the absorption of iodine by the kids. I found a range specialist vet from Colorado State who ended up doing research on her herd. That's when they found the high levels of flixweed in the hay. I can't remember his name, but if you google flixweed, a bunch of stuff will come up. Good luck. If you have more issues, PM me and I will give you my neighbor's contact info. She's helped others get through this...hang in there. I hope it is an isolated event for you. The second cutting and third cuttings have much less of it because it has been cut back by the first cutting harvest.


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## steff bugielski (Nov 10, 2003)

Ok not to hijack your thread but I have an adult doe about 5 years old with this same type of goiter.
Exactly in the same place. She has had it for well over a year and it only bothers her when she tries to bring up her cud.
Out of all the many many goats we have had hear she is the only one.
Could painting her tail hurt in any way? She is a terrific milker.


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## Alice In TX/MO (May 10, 2002)

I'd paint tails on all goats, adults, kids, etc. Iodine won't hurt them, and according to my source, if they don't *need* it, it won't absorb as fast, and you'll know.

It's supposed to be the 7% iodine, which you may have to get from the vet.


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## dunroven (Dec 6, 2004)

You are not hijacking the thread. I think this is a wonderful question. I'm not sure if it would help or not but I would absolutely do it and see what happens. They say this can't be cured but it can be stabilized, and I would be for trying to stabilize it asap.

I was talking with my husband about the hay we have been feeding. We got this hay from a guy who claimed it was good grass hay, BUT I have found a lot of ditch weed in it and I'm betting, since I have never had this problem before, that I have had flixweed fed to my goats, and with my not knowing there was a problem until the babies were born, I couldn't do anything about it, but you can bet your bottom dollar I'll be doing something about it from now on.

First off, no more hay from this guy, second off, I'm going to be asking about whether it is brome or ditch weed or alfalfa or what. I'm going to know my hay, and third, mineral blocks are going to start appearing here as well as an iodine block if I can find one. I have never checked for those before, but I'm sure going to now.

I won't go through this again. I'm now convinced that this is what is wrong with Milly and Penny. If you read my post about them before, you will note that I asked about the lumps in Penny's neck. Well, I thought it was where the mother had stepped on her and several here thought so too. I saw her step on her, so I was sure of it. Well, now I know those lumps are very small goiters. Thank God they are small. Most of the doelings that are born with this never live, they are normally stillborn. I was lucky to get these 2 and hopefully I will get 2 from the last doe that has yet to kid. We'll see.

But I'll tell you folks, if you can prevent this in your herds, and you now know about it, don't let it happen. We all know how devastating it is to lose these kids you have waited so long to get.


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## 7thswan (Nov 18, 2008)

The lamb that was given to me last week had this on here neck,not as big tho. I thought it was just some kind of injury from wile being born. It died at 4 days old.


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## Sherry in Iowa (Jan 10, 2010)

dunroven: These guys/gals are all right in that it is an iodine issue. Whether they have eaten something to deplete it or the adults were born deficient and so the kids are, I don't know. They all gave really good advice, but I think painting them at this point is going to be hard to get on top of it. You might want to call a vet, the shots/call would be cheaper than the goats you are losing..prices are darned good right now. Best of luck.

Steff: We had 1 doe that about 5-6 years old gave birth to twins that had goiters. They were small, but the kids were weak from it. The vet treated the kids and I think he gave Ora the mom a shot too. She is now 12 and never had it again. Don't know if any of that is helpful or not. Best to you.


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## Alice In TX/MO (May 10, 2002)

I found liquid kelp online that you could dose for a quick boost....

http://www.google.com/products/cata...=X&ei=UZ-UTYLoJ5OD0QHNpbCCDA&ved=0CEoQ8wIwAg#


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## myheaven (Apr 14, 2006)

Can you shave a strip down the goats back and drench her spine with the 7% iodine to help her absorbe it faster? You wont shavethe whole goat so chances are she wont freeze in the temps we are currently getting.


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## Alice In TX/MO (May 10, 2002)

I would just do the under-the-tail treatment.


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## dunroven (Dec 6, 2004)

Well, so far the last doe has not kidded yet, but it will be happening in the next day or 2. I'll be glad when this kidding season is over. She is the last one, and then it will be done.

I did get to buy a mineral block today, no loose minerals around here that have anything good in them, and this is not optimal, but it does have everything in it, so its a start on the next kidding season.

Sherrie: Actually I have had these does for 5 years now. They have all given me babies in the past. Never have they given me babies with goiters. That's why I truly have to believe this was in this hay that we bought from this guy. I told my husband he is from now on to ALWAYS ask if they have Flixweed growing on their farm, and NEVER to buy hay from someone who says yes and if he is not comfortable doing it, to let me know before he buys and I'll take care of looking over the hay.

I was not able to get the 7% iodine today, but my vet should be open tomorrow to try to get that and will give my goat a paint job under the tail.

I also bought table salt and plenty of baking soda. Gonna renew all the efforts I can. I am not, at least right now, going to be able to buy the BOSS and all the different things everyone is doing, but they will get 12% protein all stock feed, they will get GOOD grass hay, a mineral block, baking soda free choice, and some salt.

Now, is there anything else lurking out there that I have no clue about? This just completely blindsided me. I have to give Milly her shot for tonight, but she is drinking well and like Thaiblue said, Houston, we have poop! I'm pleased with that, for sure!


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## CaliannG (Apr 29, 2005)

~hugs~ This has been a HARD season on you!

I am so sorry you have had to go through it.

There are things you should probably need to be aware of, most of the main deficiencies effect kidding most of all.

Floppy Kid Syndrome comes from a deficiency of B Vitamins, most especially thiamine. That's why pregnant does get grain rations as both oats and barley are high in the B Vitamins. Keeping injectable B-Complex on hand (available over-the-counter at your feed store) and injectable Thiamine (available from your vet, although my co-op carries it) can save a kid's life.

In adults, Goat Polio, and a couple of other problems/syndromes/diseases are caused by a deficiency in B-Complex and/or Thiamine.

Selenium and Vitamin E, as you have heard, can cause a kid to be unable to stand at birth, display general weakness, and eventually die. Often mistaken for pneumonia in kids. Bo-Se is the answer to that.

Copper deficiency....causes low milk production, rough, sparse coats in adults, and general listlessness...it can also cause kidding difficulties and contribute to doe death due to early fatigue and lack of energy in the doe. Copper bolusing helps a lot with that.

You have seen what Iodine deficiency causes. ~hugs to you~

In the wild, or in the Old Testament Bible, these were not a problem as the goats had miles to roam and could nibble here and munch there...the things that had the minerals and vitamins they needed. Now, however, we have been but poor caretakers of the world we have been given, and our goats only have the browse which, in many places, is growing on burned out farming fields (I know most of my area of Texas was planted in corn and cotton at the turn of the 19th century and is now doing well to grow mesquite), the hay, massed produced with fertilizers, and grain produced the same way.

It has been a LONG time since any generation has truly cared for the gift of land the Lord has given, rather than trying to bleed out every drop of profit they can from that land. That is why, today, we have to be extra, extra, extra careful that the animals in our charge get the vitamins and minerals they need.... because those vitamins and minerals no longer reside in the soil like they used to.

I am so sorry you are having to deal with this. ~hugs~ again.


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## steff bugielski (Nov 10, 2003)

How often would you paint an adult's tail?


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