# Net metering thoughts?



## canadiangirl (Jul 25, 2004)

Well DH and I want to add a wind generator to our property so we went to visit a store that sets up alternative power systems to see what's new. Well we got a few things to think about. First of all our intentions as a "step 1" were to set up our well water pump and deep freeze area (which are on the same circuits) on alternative power. In a long term power outage these are the only items we really need to run a generator for. Although we own a generator, we would like to not have to rely on fossil fuels as our back up. The consultant felt it is not worth it ($ wise) to set up the generator/ invertor/ batteries to run this. He really pushed net metering instead. I don't actually get the net metering thing. If there is a power outage we still would have no power and have to run our generator. Here in Nova Scotia we are allowed to net meter but only to the point where the credits are used up each year and then you are producing power for free for the electric company. So the net metering option is $25,000 (although dh looked everything up and said it can be done for 1/2 that easy) to save at most $2000 a year and probably more like $1500/year and still be at the mercy of power outages. The consultant thought the set up we were thinking of would cost about $6500 and gave us the impression that it's not worth it for such a small thing. I know it's an independant store but it feels like he's working for the power company. DH is left with the impression that they don't really know what they're doing.


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## Allan Mistler (Jun 1, 2004)

Canadiangirl,
I too decided that the reason for an alternative power system was to run my freezers and well pump since those two things are quite important when you raise all your food and live in the boonies. We heat with wood and cook with gas so our frequent power outages are merely a nuisance now.
We have a 3600 watt generator that only needs to be run for about 3 hours to fully charge our battery bank up if, for one reason or another, the sun doesn't shine for two days and the utility is down. Other than that, the solar system cuts our electric bill in half with the remaining fifty dollars/month mostly comprised of fixed operating utility costs rather than actual power usage.
The cost to put the 1000 Watt/hr solar system in was about $6,500 since I did all the work myself as it sounds your DH intends to do. I'm sure he can get free advice if anything becomes a challenge. Regardless of the cost, I'm thrilled with the piece of mind knowing I need not rely upon an iffy utility company.
Stick to your guns and you'll not be sorry!


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## OntarioMan (Feb 11, 2007)

Just out of curiosity - how many KWH per month, on average, are you consuming from the grid?


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## majik (Feb 23, 2005)

We're looking at wind for our place in ontario and have talked to a couple of people about systems in a casual way. I was surprised to find out that if you are on the grid here and net metering and the grid goes down, the hydro compnay wants your system to be down too. So even though you're generating power, you can't use it according to them (they want to save problems when the grid goes back up). SO check in to that. Now we're looking at a wind system that wouldn't be hooked in to the grid. I think we can still pay back our investment (maybe $10,000) in 10 years. But the power companies don't make it easy!


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## canadiangirl (Jul 25, 2004)

Oh man don't make me tell you. I hang clothes outside when I can, hand wash dishes rather than use the dish washer, we've replaced lights with flourescents, energy wise appliances, but we run home offices about 6 computers and 10 monitors other office gear and transmitters, a swimming pool during the summer (unheated just the filter), and we homeschool so we are all home all day. So hanging our heads -we are using 45 kw per day.


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## canadiangirl (Jul 25, 2004)

Hi majik- It makes sense after you think about it. If the system is down you would be feeding into it and linesmen may get zapped working on downed wires.


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## Jim-mi (May 15, 2002)

Being as I install wind turbines, I too am wondering about your last sentence.
I'll bet he\they are touting a certain piece of equipment only. Discression dictates that I not name the equipment that I'm thinking of.

And yes do you want to see your big $$$$ investment sit there idle just because the grid is down . . . . .isn't that the time you really need it. . ?

Yes you can do both---ie: grid tie and keep things running when the grid is down.

canadiangirl would you pm me . .I'm very currious about what equipment he\they were going to use for that 25k.
thanks.


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## canadiangirl (Jul 25, 2004)

Hi Jim-mi, you've got mail.


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## wy_white_wolf (Oct 14, 2004)

> 45 kw per day


IMHO - Net metering laws are set up to benifit the electric provider, not the user. I would avoid a grid tied system but with how much power you use it may be a neccessity. I'd hate to imagine the number of batteries and size needed to give you any kind of backup supply.

You could go with a grid tie system that has a smaller battery bank for when the power goes out.


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## Gary in ohio (May 11, 2002)

Net metering varies by location so check your area. In most cases its not worth the cost you have to front to pump power back into the grid. at a wholesale of 2-3cent/kw you have to have a lot of spare power to make any money at all.


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## canadiangirl (Jul 25, 2004)

You see this is why DH and I wanted to start with our necessities (freezer and well) then do our out building that will be built this year and work from there. We figure as different technologies happen and home situations change we can add to a system.
Gary- the point here (in NS) is that you don't make any money at all with net metering. It is completely bizarre. You can offset your power bill only to "0" but it gets reset every year. So the idea is to only buy a system as big as you use and there is no incentive to change power habits.


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## OntarioMan (Feb 11, 2007)

Unless you live in a wind tunnel, or put up multiple wind turbines, you'll never produce near the amount of electricity which you consume - so whether the utility company will compensate you for excess electricity generated, or not, is not an issue - you'll never get to that point.

IMO, I'd look to other areas to invest my money - extra insulation, better windows, a solar sunroom, on-demand water heater, solar heat, more efficient heating/cooling system, a more efficient vehicle, a more efficient generator, etc. You're already on the grid, you don't need electricity. Put your money wherever it will have the greatest impact. 

Actually, some net metering policies in various parts of Canada are very good - some actually crediting you for more than you produce. Again, they won't pay you for electricity if you create more than you use - but unless you live like a Menonite, you'll never get to that point. 

Watch out for taxs as well - as far as I know, there are no systems in place yet which will exclude wind turbines from property value assessments. Add a $30k wind turbine and you're good intentions will be rewarded with increased property taxs. At 2% that = an extra $600 per year.

Scenarios :
#1 = you consume 1000 units of electricity, and you generate 100 units of electricity

#2 = you consume 900 units of electricity

IMO, #2 is the far more practical path - especially since generating electricity yourself is far more difficult and far more expensive than you first realize. 

Fossil fuels are fine, just use them wisely. Grid electricity is fine, use it wisely. 



canadiangirl said:


> You see this is why DH and I wanted to start with our necessities (freezer and well) then do our out building that will be built this year and work from there. We figure as different technologies happen and home situations change we can add to a system.
> Gary- the point here (in NS) is that you don't make any money at all with net metering. It is completely bizarre. You can offset your power bill only to "0" but it gets reset every year. So the idea is to only buy a system as big as you use and there is no incentive to change power habits.


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## Jim-mi (May 15, 2002)

I think a couple people posting here need to reread canadiangirl's posting.
She is talking about a backup system.

Darn good idea.


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## WisJim (Jan 14, 2004)

In many states in the USA, there is actual net metering--net metering means that they pay you the same as they charge you for power, that is the "net" part of net metering. It can pay to have a properly installed wind generator if you have adequate wind. I know quite a few people who are getting a better return on the investment made in their wind generator than they would if the money was in the bank. But you do need to be in a good wind site and have an adequate tower.

To get back to part of your original question regarding the additional cost for net metering and the equipment involved--if you are already connected to the grid, the inverter and associated equipment needed for a net metering connection is less than the inverter, batteries, and associated equipment needed for an off-grid system. Batteries cost more than no batteries, and the inverter for either type of system is going to be of similar cost. Also, a $6500 wind generator system, if that is an installed price for generator, tower, etc., is a pretty small system, more of a small cabin system than a "regular" house system.


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## canadiangirl (Jul 25, 2004)

I just couldn't understand why he would be pushing the net metering system- makes no sense to me in our situation, and why what we wanted to do would be a "waste". We are going to go ahead but DH isn't going to rely on the local guys to help out or advise.


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## Jim-mi (May 15, 2002)

Those guys touting certain equipment have a "company line" to follow . .an agenda . . .So if someone suggests anything out of their agenda, . .then "thats a waste". . .and they will put you down for even mentioning it.

Also said persons will put the equipment on towers that are way too short . . . .barely tree top height . . . . .proving that they haven't a clue about wind power.

That begs the line: "Would you buy a used car from that guy" . . . .???

No I haven't mentioned the product name . . .on purpose.
I really hate stuff like this that can\will give wind power a bad rap.


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## OntarioMan (Feb 11, 2007)

Invest $12,500 and save $1500/yr ? That is impressive for such a small wind turbine setup. I'm guessing the price per kwh for grid electricity is extremely high where you are.



canadiangirl said:


> .... So the net metering option is $25,000 (although dh looked everything up and said it can be done for 1/2 that easy) to save at most $2000 a year and probably more like $1500/year ...


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