# Rats!



## Laura Workman (May 10, 2002)

So now I know what it looks like when a rat kills bunnies. Went out to the rabbits tonight and there was a rat sitting on top of the rabbit cage where my ten-day-old litter of Silver Foxes are. The mother was eating one of the babies. This surprised me a lot, since she's a proven doe and an excellent mother. I took the baby away and felt in the nestbox. All the babies were cold. I pulled them out and looked at them. One was missing an eyeball and a good portion of the surrounding orbit. Another was missing its nose and some surrounding tissue. Similar damage to others. Blasted rats!

How do I get rid of them? I'm afraid to use traps because I have dogs and chickens in the same area. All the poisons say, "Remove all other sources of feed." Well, these rats get right into the rabbit feeders and feast, so how am I supposed to remove all sources of feed? I tried poison in the feed barn in one of those "Tomcat" poison stations, and it hasn't been touched. Why can't they come up with a poison that tastes better than chicken feed or rabbit feed?

Any suggestions? I've got another doe due next week, and now that the rats have a taste for bunnies, I'm afraid they'll just keep killing.


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## XCricketX (Jun 7, 2006)

How were the rats able to get into the cages? Just curious...

Cricket


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## Laura Workman (May 10, 2002)

1 by 2 wire, standard in rabbit cages, poses no obstacle for rats.


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## white eagle (Feb 8, 2007)

Laura Jensen sorry to hear this happening to your babies.. I hate darn rats... Rats are a pain in the butt. I had a rat not long ago stealing my chicken eggs an I thought it was another weasel but I surpized the stupid thing one night by going out in the dark an all the sudden flipped on the light an there the thing was eating a egg so I took a shovel an slammed it agaist the darn rat an killed it. Nothing is going to mess with my animals.. I wished I could tell you how to get rid of your rat problem but you having chickens, dogs an etc it would be hard to tell you what to use because like you said can't use poisons around there. Plus a cat or dog or another animal may eat a dead rat an kill it. 

Wish you luck...


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## XCricketX (Jun 7, 2006)

Yes, really sorry about your babies... I'm sure that was heart wrenching, especially finding them that way.

Maybe, until you can figure out how to get rid of the rat... line your cages with the 1/2 by 1/2 woven wire. Just a thought...

Again, really sorry about your loss! 

Cricket


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## billy (Nov 21, 2005)

I read in another forum that a large bucket with something like a paper towel roller rigged and baited at the top will really take care of the rat problem. The fellow says to just drill a hole in opposite sides of the bucket about a half inch down from the top. Run a coat hanger wire or something like that through a piece of 3/4 inch pipe or such, so that the pipe will roll on the wire, then bait with peanut butter directly on the roller and fill the bucket about 1/2 way full of water. Rig a board or something to where the rat can get up to the bucket top.


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## Kyah (Oct 29, 2007)

Laura,
We had a war with rats about 6 years ago when our elderly neighbor tore his old barn down. The rats migrated to every out building on our road, but here especially, because of the barn. They _literally_ made trails from the barn to the garden, and from the barn to the woodshed. When I moved the chicken's feed to the porch out of reach, they demolished the garden. They chewed holes all over the barn. They ravaged the compost pile. And they were in the chicken's coop so bad that I tossed the eggs away. 

I called an exterimanator. He said for $250 he would "saturate" the property with poison and guaranteed he'd get rid of every single rat. But, like yourself, I too had children and dogs around, besides that a small brook right behind the barn that flows to my nieghbor's fish pond. 

I tried the black snap traps, they worked alright, but rats are extremely intelligent, and I couldn't seem to get them all. My Dad was a trapper, and I still had some of his old 1 1/2 victor traps here. I made "blind" sets on the trails they made. I caught 25 the first night. 

I was also told by an older gentleman of an old timer recipe - use white cake mix with equal parts of plaster of paris. I placed this mixture in glass bottles laid on their sides (Away from pets and kids) This worked on the rats that were "trap shy". It was a horrible experience. I don't mean to frighten you dear, however I must warn you that when you actually _see_ a rat, then the population is growing most quickly, and I would strongly advise (if at all possible) remove the chickens and dogs from the area and set up some traps, or take other means of action. 

Rats put rabbits to _shame _when it comes to reproduction - and even a couple of rats can = hundreds in a very short time. Best of luck to you.... I'm so sorry to hear about the wee baby rabbits =(

Kyah


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## Honorine (Feb 27, 2006)

Billys got the right idea, make a bucket trap baited with peanut butter, they fall in and drown. Maggie I think uses a small live trap and then dispatches them with a pellet gun. If you can see them in the daytime and your a decent shot you can pick them off. Chickens should be good at taking care of the littler ones, but once they get a certain size the chickens won't go after them. Set a lot of traps baited with peanut butter, they can't resist it. Get some big glue boards too, that'll catch smaller ones. My DH is an exterminator, so I called him, on the phone with him now. He told me that big snap traps baited with peanut butter work well, use rubber gloves when placing them, and if you smoke then double glove, because mice and rats have an aversion to nicotine. Place the traps along a wall. As for bait there is a no second kill bait named Maki Mini blocks, he's used it for mice here in our house in the past, but it has to be in a bait station to keep other animals from getting to it. Maki may or may not be available to the public. He thinks that DCon granular bait may be a no second kill bait but he's not sure, you'd have to look into it. So sorry about your babies, thats just horrible, hope you kill all the filthy buggers.


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## Beaners (Feb 23, 2005)

Just a warning with the bucket traps, if a rat can keep his hind feet on the bottom and his nose above water you will also have to deal with the rat. Also, depending on the size of the bucket, if they can hit the bottom they can jump back out. This isn't as much of a problem with little bitty rats, it's when they get big you have to worry. Nothing like a half drowned rat launching itself at you to start your day!

Kayleigh


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## Janis Sauncy (Apr 11, 2006)

How about live traps? Safe for other animals and you can dispose of the prisoner as you see fit.

Janis


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## RiverPines (Dec 12, 2006)

Old fashioned rats traps loaded with dog food. 
Thats what solved our prob several years ago.

I personally would not deal with a live trap for rats. They are way to risky dealing with when trapped. 

Rats can be a health hazard to people and pets.
Not to mention their destruction levels. They do cause fires when they find electrical wires to chew.


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## MaggieJ (Feb 6, 2006)

Thanks, Laura, for posting about what happened to your kits. That is horrid... but you saved me from having the same thing happen here. I won't breed the rabbits now until they can be back in their cages in the summer rabbitry to kindle. I had planned to let them kindle in the floor pen... but it is not rat-proof. 

Heads up, folks, about J-feeders. Even if your cages are rat-proof you may have problems with rats getting in through the feeders unless you put a cover on them.

I use a small livetrap in our mudroom... the horrid beasties come up from our cellar. (Old house... full of holes.) Our moggie, Marilla, keeps them out of our living quarters but the mudroom is (in theory, anyway) off-limits to her unless she is going outdoors with her harness and leash. I won't use snap traps there because of the risk to Marilla, but the live trap does a good job. 

I use the black snap traps outdoors or in the outbuildings, but have to be careful of how and where they are set so as not to harm the geese or chickens. A wooden crate placed against a wall with a small gap to allow rat access will provide a safe place to set snap traps. It would also work for the plaster of Paris mixture. We did something similar one year using icing sugar and polyfilla... it seemed to help. They certainly ate it and the numbers went down, but since we were trying multiple methods it was hard to determine what was working and what wasn't.

We had a weasel or mink here for a month or so this winter and he took care of a lot of rats... but he seems to have moved on now, unfortunately. 

I haven't had much luck with peanut butter for bait, but I'm going to try it again. I find dates work well... rats have a sweet tooth and the dates are soft enough to squish into that little cup that you insert into the black snap traps. 

Rats are a never-ending battle. They were here when we moved in and the only time we seemed to be rat-free was the year we had a mink in our cellar the whole winter. We stupidly deported him when he decided to check out the house and we found him nose to nose with Marilla. We didn't see any rat sign again until we got a load of hay a couple of years later. I think there must have been some in the bales.


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## MaggieJ (Feb 6, 2006)

RiverPines said:


> I personally would not deal with a live trap for rats. They are way to risky dealing with when trapped.


I shoot the rats in the livetrap using a pellet gun... and don't empty it until I am certain they are dead. No risk... just open it and dump 'em out. The livetrap has a solid top to protect hands from bites when you move it. They are horrid when trapped all right. They usually attack the barrel of the pellet gun which makes a clean kill easy.


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## Beaniemom (May 25, 2007)

Kyah said:


> Laura,
> 
> I tried the black snap traps, they worked alright, but rats are extremely intelligent, and I couldn't seem to get them all. My Dad was a trapper, and I still had some of his old 1 1/2 victor traps here. I made "blind" sets on the trails they made. I caught 25 the first night.
> 
> ...


What is a "blind set" ? I also have a vermin problem, yes, the joy of living in the country. They were here before the rabbit were (On year I actually had rats chew thru the siding to get into the house! Ick)

Since poisen is out I tried the sticky traps, well they're okay for itty bitty mice, but the rats just drag them off.

I haven't had any in the cages though (and that could be that there is plenty to eat on the ground) I wouldn't think the doe would LET a rat in the cage, but I'm probably wrong!

I have got to get some more traps before spring. My one eyed cat does a surprisingly good job of getting the smaller ones, but I'm sure there are more out there than he can get.


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## steve-in-kville (Nov 12, 2005)

Would keeping a heat lamp over the nest box deter rats?? I lost a litter about a month ago... found remnants of the babies in the cage. It was the doe's first litter and I assumed the severe cold spooked her and she ate the babies. last week I found signs of rats digging and set traps, but no rats. Maybe it was, maybe it wasn't.


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## RiverPines (Dec 12, 2006)

MaggieJ said:


> I shoot the rats in the livetrap using a pellet gun... and don't empty it until I am certain they are dead. No risk... just open it and dump 'em out. The livetrap has a solid top to protect hands from bites when you move it. They are horrid when trapped all right. They usually attack the barrel of the pellet gun which makes a clean kill easy.


Gee sounds easier to just use an old fashion rat traps. 
No pellet gun needed. :shrug:


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## Terry W (Mar 10, 2006)

rats are notoriuos for being able the chew out of almost anything!!! If thei5 teeth can get an edge, they can generally chew out or through-- including cinderblock and cage wires!

at the rehab center, we had 1/2 by 1 wire for the full walls of the permanent resident structures-- kept out weasels, minks, and the rats. the rats found it easier to get food someplace else than chew through the wire. And that can be used,as well-- animals will go for the least effort to procure-- they really don't want to work hard for calories!!!

I have good success with a bucket baited with grain under BigBrother's tractor--catch all kinds of rodents that way.

Perhaps a 55 gallon barrell-- smooth walled-- small opening on top cover, so rat can get in, yet not be able to climb or jump out. Then, when ready to do them in, add water and cover the hole!!!


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## MaggieJ (Feb 6, 2006)

RiverPines said:


> Gee sounds easier to just use an old fashion rat traps.
> No pellet gun needed. :shrug:


Sure it would be easier... but as I've already explained, I'd just as soon keep my inquisitive moggie's paws intact! :benice:

I use snap traps in the outbuildings, although I find the newer style easy-set ones safer than the old-style ones.


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## LFRJ (Dec 1, 2006)

Hi Neighbor! (Laura, We're in Duvall!). 

Sorry to hear about your litter. I would be horrified! What an ugly sight that must have been. 

A little to your East, yes, we're having a great deal of difficulty with Rats too. I tried everything. I talked to pest controllers, feed store owneres, this and that forum. I tried pellet gun, snap traps, plaster paris in the cake mix, bucket with water, rat zapper contraption, poison in the bait boxes, live traps "Have a heart", running hose down the holes, pouring gravel in holes. We've spent over $100 so far, as you can see with very few results. Meanwhile the rat population was exploding. 

Nothing, I mean NOTHING worked. Oh, I'd get one, maybe two over time in the snap traps, then the varmits would get wise. (I still bait two of them religiously, every night in vain) At one point when feeding the chickens, they were swarming my feet to get at the food bowl, until I popped off two with the pellet gun. Then - AMAZINGLY, I didn't see them anymore. Oh, we still had them, to be sure, but were they watching from their holes? After two of their comrades went down, they wouldn't come out when I was present. I took back the gun because there was nothing to aim at any longer.

I've been fighting the war all winter with the various methods described above. OUr population has been getting out of control. They have tunneled under everything and I'm told our infestation could be 75 or more in a very small area, but I think I'm finally winning the war. 

THis is risky, very risky, but it's the only thing I've found that has been at all effective.

First - after the birds are finished eating - up comes the food. That's it until I get home.
Second - clear away the environment surrounding - debris, blackberries, anything around the area which might make a cozy environment for them to run around in. We had to do a lot of blackberry clearing. Ouch! 

Third - I finally resorted to poison bars (ONE BITE, they're peanut butter colored) and broke them into 3 inch pieces. No smaller. I've used it before, in bait boxes, but to no avail, so....I've been cautiously, very cautiously, smearing them with real peanut butter and pushing them deep into the rat holes at night. I use a stick to push it as far in as possible and DEFINITELY push it in deeper than one of my chickens or ducks can reach should they choose to put their heads down the hole. I'm desperate, so I figure it's not much different than a bait box, so long as a bird can't pull them back out. In addition, I leave one of the two inch bars out every other night or so in an identical food bowl, to which the rats are most familar. The bait has been gone, every morning. 


Now, in the morning before I let out the birds, I have to walk the yard and very closely examine every corner to be sure that none of the bars have been dragged back out of the holes for any reason, and/or no remnants of the bars are scattered around. So far, in the past month in which I've really stepped up my poison regime, I have not found any left over crumbs, and so far, our birds have stayed safe. I AM finding dead rats, (at lasts!), but I've had to be very, very vigilent, and I still think it's pretty risky. I wish I knew what else to do.

My plan is - when four consecutive nights go by in which the bait remains in the bowl, I'll be satisfied I've gotten the population under control. At that point, I plan to stuff the holes with gravel and cap them off with steel wool (rats can't dig through it). I'm not there yet, but I'm gaining on them. This morning's catch was 7 inches long - no lie - and not including the tail! 

If I were in your shoes, I'd try to batten down the hatches on your rabbit cages and maybe pull up the food just after bunnies breakfast, and provide hay for the rest of the day. 

If it's any concillation, I undestand that King COunty is having a much greater problem with rats this year. (Link to story). In all liklihood, Snohomish county is having similar problems.

http://www.nwcn.com/health/stories/NW_110607WAB_rat_mites_KS.1e5b658fd.html

Again, I'm so sorry to hear about your loss. I would be shocked and mortified, - but I DEFINITELY know what your going through.

Good luck~!


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## Laura Workman (May 10, 2002)

Well, I've set a couple of water traps. Five gallon buckets with five or six inches of water, topped with an inch or so of corncob bedding to give it that solid look. On the one in the feed barn, I threw a little COB on top of the corncob bedding. For the one in the rabbit shed, since I know those buggers like meat :flame: , I put a coathanger wire across the top of the bucket. I took a four-inch chunk of maple branch, drilled a hole through the middle and strung it onto the wire, with the wire bent so it stays in the middle but still rolls freely. I had some cracklings left from when I rendered beef fat, so warmed those up a bit, thoroughly smeared the maple wood with the fat and put a long mound of cracklings along the top of the wood. Hopefully, the rat will crawl out to the wood and get dunked when it rolls. We'll see how it goes.


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## LFRJ (Dec 1, 2006)

Again, best of luck with the method that works best for you. I'm sure you're totally burned after such a huge and horrifying loss. 

In case you haven't heard this already, it will take patience. They're savvy little buggers and shy away from anything new (until they figure it out) so you may not see anything for a few nights. 

Your not alone. If you DO find something that works, please keep us posted. We're totally open to anything new, or retrying an old method that might work! :viking:

LF


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## lostspring (Jun 29, 2007)

Laura
Here is one way.
Find the holes where the rats are denning. Spread the area around the opening with quick lime. Rats mostly come out at night when the ground is wet with dew. They walk in the dew and get their feet wet and then walk through the quick lime when they go back to their den. Like I said, not pretty but rats carry so many diseases that they must be eradicated by whatever means works. Bad news is if you have seen one there is probably 10 or twenty times that number.


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## Kyah (Oct 29, 2007)

> What is a "blind set" ?


That just means the rat dosen't know the trap is there. Rats are very wise and sometimes won't go near a snap trap _at all _- but if they can't see or smell it, well they don't know it's there until it's too late. (insert evil giggle here!)

These are the old fashioned small leg hold type traps, designed for catching mink/weasels. I set these traps right on their runways, covered the the trap over, so the rats couldn't see it. I found I caught the small rats in the black snap traps - used chocolate chips for bait - but the most of the large (and I dare say _smarter_ rats) were in the steel ones. 

They tore the insulation out of the barn really bad, and I also set some traps at the entrance of the holes, and used the insulation to cover the traps with - caught a lot that way too. But the first night with the steel traps was a real eye opener, because I just didn't realize _how many rats_ were out there! I had set two traps on the trail leading from the barn to the garden. I went out with a flashlight every 20 minutes or so and checked. Well, each time I went out, I had two rats. I never saw anything like it, and it took a few weeks just to get their numbers down. 

Kyah


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## monsoon (Feb 28, 2008)

burry a 5 gal bucket in the ground leaving the lid at ground level. take some pvc and angle it from the bucket (about 3/4 the way up) to ground level. place some sort of bait in the bucket. rats will go in the pvc and into the bucket most should not be able to make it back out. if you have something bigger than 5 gal use it. the bigger the drop the better. lift the lid daily and see what you get.


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## turtlehead (Jul 22, 2005)

Well, I have rats now too.

I'd battled them in the chicken house but last night and this morning the rabbits' feeder was full of those big huge nasty rat poos.

I thought I had a doe kindle about five weeks ago but then the kits never came out of the burrow. I thought maybe it was a false pregnancy but now I'm thinking maybe the nasty rats got to the kits 

AND I have another doe who pulled fur and built a big beautiful nest last night but she hasn't yet kindled - the burrow was nice and open and you could see the nest way down in there.

So.... I figure I'll fight the rats in the rabbit colony the same way I fought them in the chicken house.

1) Put the food OUT in the sunlight on nice days.
2) Take the food up at night (will this be okay for pregnant/nursing does??? <-- input please!)
3) Figure out a way to put the poison blocks where the rats can get to it but the dogs and chickens can't. I'll put it outside the rabbit colony in some kind of box or milk crate or something.

I'm real nervous about the rats dragging a bit of poison into the rabbit colony but my chickens never had any problems when I hid rat poison in the wall of the chicken house, so hopefully the rabbits will be fine too.

I've tried ALL those methods listed above except the cake mix. The only thing that's worked is the poision. I hate having poison around but it's better than losing all these litters to rats.

Dagnabbit.


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## MaggieJ (Feb 6, 2006)

The "no cuss words" policy keeps me from expressing my opinion of rats. The mink or weasel we had around was making good progress cleaning them out, but it suddenly disappeared and the rat population has exploded. They have riddled the goose and rabbit house with holes and yesterday, when I finished putting the geese in and went back to make sure the pop-hole was latched, I saw a huge rat sitting calmly beside the chicken house eating a bit of grain I spilled. He must have just been waiting for me to leave. 

I might have to use poison after all. 

Turtlehead, they make bait stations for rat poison to keep other animals from getting into it, but I'd think you could make your own by cutting holes (rat sized) in a bucket with a lid and putting the poison inside. I think I'm going to try the plaster of Paris/cake mix thing first. It will have to go in a bait box too, but at least it isn't poisonous. I have to think of the wild bunny population as well... I like having the cottontails around and they also clean up any spilled grain in the yard. At least if plaster of Paris gets scattered, the moisture would make it set up and render it harmless. (I think)


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## Terry W (Mar 10, 2006)

MaggieJ said:


> At least if plaster of Paris gets scattered, the moisture would make it set up and render it harmless. (I think)



Yes-- it would. and once it sets up, if it does get ingested, there is no harm done at that point.


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## Kyah (Oct 29, 2007)

Has_ anyone_ here tried this product? Is it available in Canada and the US? It claims to be derived from 100% formulated comminute plant material, and is harmless to cats/dogs, but lethal to rodents? 

Here is the link. The issue I have is that it sounds too good to be true..... 

http://www.trapman.co.uk/eradirat.htm#backofpack

Kyah


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## swampgirl (Aug 29, 2006)

Has anyone tried a gadget called a "Rat Zapper"? It runs on electricity & comes in a home model & a larger one. Rather expensive, but I'm considering it. I've got a terrible rat problem & consequently a snake problem, ever since my last cat died. I'll also be getting a couple of barn cats soon.


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## Beaniemom (May 25, 2007)

Can you put the poisen into something they can't get back out of? I'd be worried they'd cross contaminate the feed or water otherwise. I bought some traps, I need to go set them.

Poor kitty wanted to come mouse in the rabbity last night (okay, what he really wanted to do was stare in the cages) and the rabbits were peeved he was there. Lots of thumping and running around, I have to toss him back outside. How;s he going to catch my mice if the rabbits won't let him inside the rabbitry? <sigh>


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## LFRJ (Dec 1, 2006)

We tried the zapper. Didn't work. 
We tried the bait boxes too. Nothing. 
Our population was really getting out of control. I finally resorted to aggressive use of poison. I had to be vigilent though.... and I feel as though I got away with it, but was lucky, and very nervous about it. 

I cut the poison bars into 3 inch pieces. No smaller. I wanted to be able to find them if they were dragged away.... and yes, Turtlehead, I DID find stray pieces, but only twice. Each time they were lying along the tracks that the rats generally traveled along (which in our case was the fence line outside the chicken pen). I noticed this winter that they had a pattern. SO if you have free rangers, yes - it's risky, and you'll have to spend time each morning looking around. I don't know that the rats would be as inclined to drag the pieces into the rabbit hutches. I think they were more likely trying to take the bait back to their burrows. 

Basically, I went around and found every hole they had. Smeared peanut butter on the three inch chunks and pushed it WAY WAY into their holes. Hell, I'd have hand fed the poison to those varmits if they would have been more friendly! I also left one piece in a the spare food dish overnight, about every other night. THis was mostly as a barometer. At first, it was gone everytime, but eventually, it stayed. Along with the smell and occasional fresh corpse, I could tell I was winning! 

This went on for about a month, but we had quite a problem. Other things that helped, pulling up the food after everyone was fed. Spraying down the ground to eradicate any left over crumbs from sloppy eaters. (Those rats were FORCED to eat poison or go hungry!), and finally, cleaning up debris, stumps, brambles, etc. in the vicinity that made good homes. 

Just this past weekend, I achieved my goal of four nights straight with the barometer bait bar still remaining in the overnight dish...and - no sign of rats for a week. So....I filled their holes with as much mud and gravel as I could poke in their, and I capped off the last two or three inches of their hole with steel wool (I loosened the wad up a bit) and sealed with a bit more mud and gravel. 

It was real risky, but I found nothing else that worked. We were hoping for chicks this year, and that remained a dream until the rats were gone. Have had no trouble with the rabbit kits, but our cages are pretty secure. Still, I'd be horrified if Mrs. Bunny had a litter that was eaten alive. 

I talked to a feedstore owner about the poison if our cat ate a rat which was sickened. The feedstore owner said he'd talked to his rep about this too. The rep told him that a larger animal, including chicken, would have to take in a lot of poison or eat a lot of poisoned rat before it harmed them. It was soothing, but I was still plenty scared about the whole idea. I was totally out of feasable options though 

Good luck all. I know what you're going through!


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## MaggieJ (Feb 6, 2006)

Kyah said:


> Has_ anyone_ here tried this product? Is it available in Canada and the US? It claims to be derived from 100% formulated comminute plant material, and is harmless to cats/dogs, but lethal to rodents?
> 
> Here is the link. The issue I have is that it sounds too good to be true.....
> 
> ...


I use Opera for for my browser, so I enlarged the picture until I could read the ingredients on the label. 

94% powdered corn cobs, 1% wheat flour, 5% sweet molasses.

I suspect from their commentary on "digestive disruption" that it works very much like the plaster of Paris. But if you have access to corn cobs, I'd give it a try making your own.


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## Beaniemom (May 25, 2007)

Go, basically it gave the rats the runs? :O Said it took a couple days to work. I don't much like rats, but I don't know that I want them to suffer for days either. Kinda on the fence there, I always feel bad for the critters the cat catches, since he plays with his food first!

I never even thought about the animals eating the poisoned rats though!


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## MaggieJ (Feb 6, 2006)

No. Beaniemom, not the runs... quite the reverse. Rats cannot vomit... what goes down stays down until it comes out the other end. Or not. With plaster of Paris (and, I speculate, this new rat killer) it sets up in their gut when combined with moisture and shuts the whole system down. Not pretty... but what they do to baby chicks and buns isn't pretty either.  

In my books, it is worth a lot to have a plan that will not result in either accidental or secondary poisoning of other critters. I had a lot of qulams before trying the Polyfilla mix a couple of years ago... and no conclusive evidence that it worked. But I think it helped, along with trapping, and I'm just going to harden my heart and try the plaster. If I knew where to get corn cobs, I'd try that.


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## Laura Workman (May 10, 2002)

MaggieJ said:


> I use Opera for for my browser, so I enlarged the picture until I could read the ingredients on the label.
> 
> 94% powdered corn cobs, 1% wheat flour, 5% sweet molasses.
> 
> I suspect from their commentary on "digestive disruption" that it works very much like the plaster of Paris. But if you have access to corn cobs, I'd give it a try making your own.


Maggie, this is great!!!! :clap: :rock: I had run across this stuff, but couldn't find a way to buy it in the US. 

Oh, corn cobs. What about that natural corn cob bedding, pulverized in a blender? I bought some to float on the water in a bucket trap, but it didn't float well enough. Maybe I have a use for it after all!  :viking:


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## MaggieJ (Feb 6, 2006)

There you go, Laura. Give it a try and let us know if it works!


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## Terry W (Mar 10, 2006)

That powdered corn cob will *SWELL* in the digestive system, causing a blockage...... yeah-- Plaster of Paris!!!!


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## turtlehead (Jul 22, 2005)

Well I emptied out the J-feeders full of rabbit pellets and rat poop. :flame: 

And I put some rat poison in a pipe and put a half cinderblock at one end and a big rock at the other so rats can get in but cats and wild rabbits can't. Chipmunks could, and maybe squirrels, but it's the best I can do and still let rats in.

When I emptied the J-feeders I poured the feed on the ground by the feeder hutch and at the fence line... and put my rat trap thing just outside the fence with the last of the rabbit feed poured beside it. So hopefully that will be a nice enticing trail for the rats to follow.

Anyone got any ideas if a pregnant or nursing doe would be okay with two feedings per day, as much as she could eat in 30 or 60 minutes? I'm considering putting the food out for a spell each morning and evening but keeping it put away the rest of the time. If that's a bad idea, I could put food out there in the morning and take it up for the night after dark. I'd like y'all's input on this. I want the food away from the rats but I don't want to harm gestating or nursing does by under-nourishing them.


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## LFRJ (Dec 1, 2006)

Maggie may be better able to answer, but is it possible to feed her, her rations at given times and then hay or greens inbetween? 
An abrupt change of diet is not recommended, but my plan would be to feed her rations and then possilbly suppliment with a foodstuff that wasn't such a rat magnet. 

This is much easier for us since we are already on a pretty green diet with pellets as suppliment (to which they usually turn up their little twitching noses).

Good luck with the pipe contraption. You'll start feeling better when that bait shows evidence of nibbling. May take a day or two. Rats are pretty suspect of anything new.


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## turtlehead (Jul 22, 2005)

LFRJ,

My rabbits are all in one big pen so they're fed free choice rather than rations. I don't *know* that any of them are pregnant or nursing but there is one burrow plugged up (usually means kits inside) and I'd be surprised if *someone* isn't pregnant. It's what they *do* after all!  

I'm going to try putting the feeder out there in the colony during the day and take it up at night. If I see rat poos in the feeder I'll think about taking it out there 2-3 times daily.

They do have hay free choice all the time. I've been watching it for signs of rat visits but so far... nothing!

I think my rabbits prefer the hay, but they eat more of the pellets because the pellets are easier for them to get to, the lazy things. If I pull some hay out of its little fence-container and put it on the ground, they gobble it up.


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## MaggieJ (Feb 6, 2006)

Working one handed today, so will keep this short. Rats are mainly active at night. Should be ok to leave feeders out all day, take up before dusk. Buns can eat hay at night. Your hay silo is great but the buns would have easier access if you took out a couple strands of wire to give easier access.


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## turtlehead (Jul 22, 2005)

Worried about your one-handedness! Hope you're okay.
That's just what I was looking for, thanks.
Want to deter the rats w/o causing any problems for potentially nursing or pregnant does. I has a plan now


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## celticfarmgal (Feb 25, 2008)

for my rat problem I did this built a small rectangular box out of plywood about 4 times the size of the rat snap trap with a hinged lid . then I screwed a regular snap rat trap to the far end of the box and drilled a 1 1/2 inch opening in the opposite end .Making an enclosed lethal trap I made several of these baited with peanut butter and feed .
the wooden box keeps the other animals from being accidentally trapped
Hope this helps you!!!!!


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## Kyah (Oct 29, 2007)

I


> use Opera for for my browser, so I enlarged the picture until I could read the ingredients on the label.


Ha ha ha!! And here I was _squinting_ trying to see what was on that label!! =)


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## MaggieJ (Feb 6, 2006)

turtlehead said:


> Worried about your one-handedness! Hope you're okay.
> That's just what I was looking for, thanks.
> Want to deter the rats w/o causing any problems for potentially nursing or pregnant does. I has a plan now


How sweet of you to worry about me, Turtle  but I don't think the hand thing is serious... I was using it too much yesterday writing shipping labels and then working on the computer. Last three fingers began involuntarily contracting... I think pressure on a nerve. No pain and about 90% better this morning - I'm even typing with it now - but had to switch mouse hands... very awkward. Little finger still doesn't want to co-operate.


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## MaggieJ (Feb 6, 2006)

Bumping this up in the hopes of hearing updates. I couldn't believe how far back this thread was after so little time.

The rat problem here is getting worse. Caught some in the T-Rex rat traps (so much easier to use than the old snap traps) but I think they are breeding faster than we are killing them. I could hear squeaking from under the floor of the goose house yesterday. I must get to town to get either the corn cob bedding or the plaster of Paris. I plan to mix up the stuff, put it into baggies to keep it dry (as the company recommended) and put it into all the holes before we patch them. 

I wonder if that expanding foam insulation would slow them down any when we patch. It might fill some of the spaces they have made in the insulation of the walls and floor. Any thoughts?

Any luck with the corn cob mix, Laura? 

Turtlehead, how are things going in the colony?


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## turtlehead (Jul 22, 2005)

I can't believe it's been over a week!

I'm still taking up the food at dark and taking it back out in the morning. One night we had errands to run so we got back after DARK rather than at good dusk and there were already three rat poops in the J-feeder.

The poison just outside the rabbit colony hasn't been touched, but I've been through about four blocks in the chicken house and there's a dead rat/mouse in the wall stinking things up out there right now.

No kits yet this spring, which surprises me. No evidence of rat-eaten kits either, though, so who knows what's going on out there.


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## MaggieJ (Feb 6, 2006)

That seems a little odd, Turtlehead, no new litters. Your spring must be much further advanced than ours. (We still have deep snow drifts, although they are beginning to shrink.)

Any signs of new rabbit burrow activity, Turtlehead? If the rats killed entire litters of buns, would the momma bun abandon the burrow and start fresh?


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## turtlehead (Jul 22, 2005)

I had one litter all born dead at the entrance to a burrow, and I'm pretty sure that was a first-time doe that I'd kept as a replacement.

Then my best producing senior doe, I was SURE had kits - saw her making a nest, and then the burrow was closed up, everything. Then all of a sudden she was cleaning it out. She's done that TWICE now, both times right under the feeder hutch (where the rats visit) so I'm thinking it's possible rats got to those litters. 

But when she cleans the burrows out there aren't any bits of rabbit kit, and she doesn't bring gnawed on dead kits to the entrance of the burrow and leave it for me to clean up. In the past, when a kit has died, the does have dragged it to the burrow entrance and left it. I just get it and dispose of it.

So it sure seems like rats are getting to the nests but I haven't SEEN any real evidence of it.

I have another burrow that I think has kits in it now. I only have the tree does so that'd account for everyone having gotten pregnant this spring (and my good producer, twice).

Our snow is gone and our daffodils are *just about* to bloom.


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## MaggieJ (Feb 6, 2006)

Last summer, we had rats dig about five feet under the broody hen's little house to come up inside the attached pen. They grabbed the chicks (two or three weeks old) and carried them off. We lost three that way in one morning before we realized what was happening. Never found any remains. A rat would have no trouble carrying off a kit under a week old.


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## LFRJ (Dec 1, 2006)

Oh Turtlehead. Sorry to hear the mixed news, particularly saddend to hear of your potential difficulties with the kits you were expecting. 

I'm particularly interested in this thread because we had such an extreme rabbit problem, and had to go to risky extremes to fix it. In fact, the war rages on, but things are much, MUCh more under control, and none of the rat tunnels have reopened since i posted about stuffing with mud and steel wool. 

I'm not sure if it was coincidence, but our population seemed to explode during the same 2-3 month period we switched to pellet _and oats _ for our buns. 

I'm interested though if the corncob/wheat/molasses product resulted with any sure success. I'd really like to find something less dangerous to keep our problem under control.


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## MaggieJ (Feb 6, 2006)

LFRJ said:


> I'm not sure if it was coincidence, but our population seemed to explode during the same 2-3 month period we switched to pellet _and oats _ for our buns.


I noticed the same thing here when we started feeding grain. It's a rat magnet, no doubt about it. 

I found out you can buy fairly small bags of the corn cob bedding at pet shops, so we're going to be getting some on the next trip to town. I think perhaps the 1% wheat flour is to mix with the 5% molasses prior to combining with the corn cob powder. One wouldn't want to add anything wet to the powder or it would swell prematurely. It might be necessary to let the molasses/flour mix dry out and then put it through the blender before mixing with the corn cob powder. Right now, we know the ingredients and proportions, but not the method. I'll have to play around with it a bit, but will post results as soon as I have something I think is workable. 

When I used the Polyfilla, I mixed about 50% Polyfilla, 25% whole wheat flour and 25% icing sugar. As I said before, it seemed to have some results. Things got a lot quieter, we trapped maybe another half dozen and then they seemed to be gone. It helped that the rats had already found and eaten some of the flour; it was some that had become infested with those pantry moths and I had put it in the mudroom meaning to mix it with extra eggs to feed back to the chickens. I procrastinated, the rats found it and since I put the mix in the same container in the same spot, they were already comfortable with it. They certainly cleaned it up... but I have no proof that it killed them.

Something else that might work is baking soda and icing sugar. Rats can't burp or vomit... the resulting gas might just prove fatal. It works on ants, for much the same reason, and I've heard of people putting soda-pop (regular, not diet) in dishes for the rats with the same result. Although how you could be sure they drink it before it goes flat is beyond me. :shrug:

Anyway, all updates good and bad would be welcomed. Maybe by brainstorming we can find a good method that is safer than poison.


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## turtlehead (Jul 22, 2005)

All good input. I hadn't thought of rats carrying kits away but of course they could. 

The rats still haven't touched the poison. I'm taking the food up every night and taking it out to the buns every morning. There are no kits under the feeder hutch now, it's all been opened up and the holes are nice and big. 

There is one burrow with kits in the colony and I'm a bit worried about it because it would be so easy for the rats to just run over to it, but I'm hoping the kits are going to be okay. The burrow entrance is still closed and is getting rearranged every day, so that's a plus.

The corncob mix sounds intriguing. Would I have to put it where the rabbits can't get to it, I wonder? I'd hate to put it in the colony and have my poor rabbits bloat to death.


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## MaggieJ (Feb 6, 2006)

Yes, Turtlehead, you would need to keep it away from the rabbits. What you would do is get some plastic buckets with lids and cut a rat-sized hole in it. Place the rat killer mix in baggies to protect it from moisture, which would quickly make it swell and render it harmless. This is a big advantage if a rat carries some away. If you took a hot glue gun and glued the top of the baggy to the bucket so that the rat has to reach up a bit, I think it would just bite a small hole and eat what falls out, enlarging the hole as necessary. I've seen bags that rats have got into and they don't usually do more work than necessary. 

If you know where the rat runways are, place a bucket there and maybe put a smear of the molasses near the hole and inside to guide them to investigate. It takes time, especially if the rats are suspicious. 

It is good policy to disturb them and their habitat as little as possible when trying to kill them with poison or a blocking mix like this. AFTER you have the problem under control (when baits are being left untouched again when previously they have been eaten) is the best time to clean up the environment, getting rid of brush piles, stacked firewood, long weeds... things that make the area attractive to them.

Hope this is helpful. If I've made any spelling errors, please don't hesitate to let me know.  <--- evil grin from the Crazy Canuck.


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## Laura Workman (May 10, 2002)

I have to say I'd be cautious about pulling feed at night. The rats around here never killed anything until I did that. I'd been doing it for a few days when I lost the litter. I have another litter now, in a different cage but in the same shelter. You can bet I keep those feeders full, while stuffing holes with baggies of plaster of paris/brownie mix (what I had on hand). 

I haven't lost the tiny babies, but I also haven't seen rat poops in the rabbit feeders like I was before, so I don't know whether the plaster of paris got a few of that bunch or they're just not pooping in the feeders for some reason. In any case, I'm NOT going to try to starve them out while I have vulnerable babies in there any more. I've seen what hungry rats do.

I will probably put together some of the corncob mix today. Haven't had time earlier, but it sounds great.


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## MaggieJ (Feb 6, 2006)

Plaster of Paris and brownie mix! Yum! :icecream: Your rats are going out in style. What proportions did you use, Laura? And do you have any way of confirming that they are eating it? It sounds like they are... Rats always go for the most attractive food.

You raise a very valid point about not starving the rats out while there are vulnerable kits about. I guess the best strategy might be to leave the pellets in place, but make the bait more alluring. Chocolate and sweets should be enticing. I once put out a mix of peanut butter mixed with honey on a wooden box, hoping to be able to pop off a few rats with the pellet gun. No luck, though, because a chipmunk found it first and slurped it all down, the greedy little thing! I'm very fond of chipmunks, so naturally let him have his treat. But it seems that all rodents have a sweet tooth. So do rabbits, so keep you sweetened bait well away from them.

Chickens are so dumb.  I set rat traps in a wooden crate in the chicken house with the open side against the large access door that we use to feed and water the chickens. The birds have a separate pop-hole. Well, when David went to shut them in this evening, a silly hen had managed to squeeze into the crate (How?  The crate was still tight against the door!) And yup - it stepped into the rat trap. No broken skin but I wouldn't be surprised if a bone or two is cracked. It was acting normally except for a limp... I'll take a look at it again in the morning. Birdbrain!  If a chicken can find a way to injure itself, it will.


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## Laura Workman (May 10, 2002)

I used a 50/50 mix. I've had an old box of Jiffy Brownie mix sitting around since I discovered I can't eat gluten several years ago. I mean OLD. But it looked and smelled fine. Yummy even. I measured how much there was, added an equal amount of PoP and put fist-sized portions into ziplock baggies. Got the air out, twisted the baggies and stuffed the fists as far down several rat holes as I could get them. I really can't say whether they're eating it or not, but I figure they at least have to tear open the baggie in the comfort and security of their own tunnel to reopen the tunnel. Gives them every opportunity to check out my offering.


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## MaggieJ (Feb 6, 2006)

Well please give us an update in a few days. I can get a really cheap brownie mix at the dollar store. Maybe I'll get the corn cobs AND the plaster of Paris and hedge my bets. I have to do something before May because that's about when the goslings, if any, will hatch. We don't even have goose eggs yet... but I'm hoping it will be soon. I figure give the rats their "care packages" by stuffing lots down the holes in the building and then nailing tin over the holes.


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## turtlehead (Jul 22, 2005)

That is a good point about the rats looking for other food if the delicious pellets are gone 

I decided to take up the feed because that's what I did in the chicken house and it worked well. I was thinking that rats come out at night, and if there are no pellets, they'll go for the lovely scented poison block.

If I stuff things down rat holes (like corncob mixes and PoP/brownie mixes), it would be where the rabbits could conceivably dig down in there and get at the stuff themselves. That's too risky, I think.

I'm going to leave the poison in the pipe just outside the colony fence.
Not sure what I'll do about taking the feed up, but I think I'll continue that. I mean, if they're attracted by the feed they'll eat the kits when they're available. If they're hungry because the pellets are gone, they'll et the kits when they're available... BUT if no kits are available, maybe they'll go for the poison.

I think I'll drag the hose up there and flood out the rat holes. There are two I know of in the colony. 

Man, I hate fighting rats. It's such a struggle.


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## MaggieJ (Feb 6, 2006)

Bumping this up for updates.

The latest here is that the rats have been gnawing on my gander's foot. :flame: He tore a toenail awhile back... and I couldn't figure out why the wound kept opening after beginning to heal. (The whole story is over on the poultry forum, so I won't repeat it here.) My son and I cleared the whole building on Saturday, a dozen or so rats went streaking out of the place and DS patched all the holes we found - after shoving poison into the walls. Still a long way to go, however.

Laura, any news about the corn cob mix? Anybody else find something that is working for them?


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## Laura Workman (May 10, 2002)

OK, it's been more than a few days, but I do have news. I made up some of the corn-cob mix. First grinding the cob to flour consistency, and that was really difficult. I have a Bosch Universal machine with a blender, and it was not too effective. I also tried my Magic Mill, turning it off for a bit when it smelled like corn smoke, and got a couple cups of flour in all before the Magic Mill jammed. (Did you know those mills don't have any way to reverse or clear jams without disassembling the whole thing, including removing caulked silicone seals? :grit I put the "flour" into the blender and drizzled in what amounted to five percent by weight of molasses. I tasted it and it didn't taste sweet, so I added another five percent. There were no noticeable problems with swelling; the mix was just barely starting to clump a tiny bit, even hot, and was more crumbly when cool.

I have lots of rat bait stations (black boxes you get at the feed store), so I put the corncob mix in three of them. The one in the feed barn, I haven't checked yet, but activity in there seems to be increasing, if anything. I checked the two in the rabbit shed and found LOTS of rat poo, but still lots of corncob mix, so if it slowed any of them down, it wasn't a significant number, and they seem to have learned to leave it alone by now. 

I called a feral cat rescue and may have some feral cats brought out, but my four dogs will make that problematic.

In the meantime, my bunnies have been having babies. I don't remember if I told you folks about the second litter, six bunnies, three killed outright, two more seemed uninjured but died within a few days of the attack. One healthy survivor, now nearly as big as an adult rat, so probably safe. Another litter is about three weeks old, six born, six healthy and safe. My solution? I got on Craigslist, got a couple of those "redwood" hutches with one-inch-square wire on the sides and one-by-one-half-inch wire on the bottom and set them up outside the rabbit shed, some distance from any cover. My thinking was that the lack of cover and the smaller wire holes would provide adequate protection. I know a big rat can get throuh a small hole, but it should at least have to slow down a bit, and there are easier pickins in the area, like the chicken feeder.

I did get stupid with one of my does, bred her, and completely forgot to write down the date. I moved her into an outside cage about the fifth of April. We were out of town from the 9th to the 16th, and she had pulled a lot of fur while we were gone, but no sign of any kits or their remains, so I'm not sure what's going on there. She's in a double "redwood" hutch, and the unharmed litter of six is in the other half, so it's hard to believe the rats could have taken her litter.

Anyway, I have potentially six outside "holes" for my rabbits now, so my plan is to move bred does out there to kindle and keep them there until the babies are big enough and spritely enough to be more trouble than a rat will want to deal with. Then I can move them back inside and use the hole for another bred doe. Not optimal, but that's the best I can do at this point.

On a better note, my dogs are learning how to hunt rats. Yesterday morning my *****, Haylie, followed a rat tunnel for three feet, digging for access, and finally got to the end where there was apparently a nest. Four very small babies, bodies about two inches long, four about four inches long and two about six inches long. All dead. :clap: Two of the medium-sized ones did get away, but we've still got some time before they breed. The dogs caught another one outside yesterday afternoon, and a rather large one this morning. Naturally, I praised them heavily for each kill, and they're getting better at it. Hopefully, they will provide some respite for the rabbit shed. 

For those harder-to-reach places, I'm planning to mix up a little more Plaster of Paris and cakemix, put it into the bait stations, and see whether that's any more popular than the corncob mix. At least with the cakemix, it will be easy to change flavors, which could help keep the rats from learning to avoid it. Plus, cake mix contains baking soda or baking powder, which could also help kill them. Maybe I'll boost the soda content a bit, along with Plaster of Paris. I just really don't want to use toxic poisons, especially now that my dogs are hunting rats, though they haven't eaten any yet.


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## Beaniemom (May 25, 2007)

When I cleaned up this spring I saw lots and lots of tunnels, I'm hoping they're mouse tunnels and not rat tunnels! :O

My kitty (and one of the barn cats from up the hill) have been getting mice now that its warmer, kitty came home with a bite on his ear/head, he seems to fight with the cats that come in the yard.

My problem with the kitty is the rabbits almost immediately reconginze him as a predator, the second he comes into the rabbitry they start thumping! Now how is he supposed to catch mice if they scare them all away!

I have traps I haven't put out yet, I should really get around to that!


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## MaggieJ (Feb 6, 2006)

Great to have some updates!

The corn cob mix sounds a little disappointing.... but the plaster of Paris/brownie mix sounds like it might be working.

The poison we shoved into the walls and floor of the goose house before patching the holes seems to have been highly effective. We found four dead rats within a couple of days... and I hope that means many more that died in their holes. No secondary poisoning of the chickens, but we're still watching for dead rats. Good advice about that from LFRJ. Thanks, guys!

Having made a dent in the rat population and excluded them, as far as we can tell, from the goose house and winter rabbitry, we turned to less aggressive measures.

I mixed up a concoction with p of p and icing sugar and some leftover white cake-mix. The rats around the chicken/goose house seemed suspicious of it, but the ones in the summer rabbitry have polished off most of what I put down in there. I'd like to get them cleaned out before the rabbits go back in there, so this is very good news. I used large empty coffee jars on their sides to hold the mix. Gives some protection from moisture and the hole is plenty big enough. I didn't see any rats down there when I was working on getting it ready for the summer season. I have a lot of manure and hay to clear out and then I will be able to see what's happening better. I think the reason those rats take the bait is because there isn't much else for them to eat there at the moment. Brian bought some cheap hot chocolate mix at the store to add to the mix, hoping the chocolate smell will attract them to the p of p. I'll be giving it a try in a day or so.

We are no longer seeing rats running around down there, or at least rarely. This is a pleasant change. So we are making progress.

Things that didn't work this round were the snap traps and the bucket trap. Just no interest in them at all. I may try changing the bait on the snap traps and putting them in the summer rabbitry. I had good luck there last year using dried dates for bait. And the silly chickens and geese can't get in there to hurt themselves on them.


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## turtlehead (Jul 22, 2005)

Glad to see this thread brought back to the surface. I've been reading everyone's posts about drowning in spring popples and I must say I'm discouraged. Fighting rats in a colony setting is HARD.

I have rat bait/poison that's kind of like a rectangular block 1"x1"x2" with a hole drilled long-ways through the block. I put a big nail through the hole and nail the chunk of poison to a scrap of lumber. Then I put the lumber in a metal pipe, and put rocks at each end of the pipe, to keep dogs and rabbits out but leaving enough opening for rats to get in and out. I do something like this in the chicken house with great success.

I left my bait just outside the colony for two or three weeks with nary a nibble. Finally, in desperation, I moved the whole thing INTO the pen. I was worried the adult rabbits would get to the bait, but after some sniffing of the pipe and rocks, their curiosity died down and they've left it alone. Unfortunately, so have the rats. 

I've seen a rat drinking from the water tub, and a rat scampering away from the J-feeder. I take the food up every night and put it out again in the morning but if I'm late taking it up at night I see rat poops in the feed. GRRR!!!

I have not seen ONE SINGLE KIT this spring, although I know I've had at least four litters out there and possibly as many as six, including one litter that the doe aborted (probably due to vermin in the colony). That's really discouraging and infuriating. Mostly I hate it for the does, who are having to cope with losing kits while they're lactating.

I plan on removing the buck from the colony; I don't have time to build him a proper cage but will put him in a dog crate and he'll just have to make do with the cramped quarters for a while. Then I'll wait about six or seven weeks so I know none of my does are pregnant or nursing. Then I'll put the does.... somewhere.... and really go after those rats with the poison set right where the J-feeder usually goes. I think without a constant supply of delicious newborn kits and rabbit feed they'll be much more likely to check out the poison.

It's REALLY discouraging. In the chicken house all I have to do is take up the feed every night and keep a block of poison where the chickens can't get to it and it keeps the rats well under control. In the rabbit colony the rats just ignore th bait.

We're hoping to get a rat terrier in a couple of months. It's an expensive purchase but between the chickens, rabbits, and garden (corn) we think it's a good investment.

This is easily the biggest challenge I've faced yet due to having my rabbits in a colony setup. I think having multiple pens will help with the rat problem, because the rats will have to pick up and move house every so often, which will make them more vulnerable to the new rat terrier (ha HAH!) 

Right now the rats just keep building condos underground in my rabbit colony. It's really hard finding their tunnels, too, because they take over rabbit burrows and build their tunnels off of the burrows (I think).


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## MaggieJ (Feb 6, 2006)

OMG, Turtlehead, that's a terrible problem you are facing. Your way of administering the poison is a good one, though. I've seen a similar set-up online somewhere but with an extra pvc pipe (capped) sticking up so that it is easy to add more bait without disturbing the whole thing.

I think a shotgun approach to rats is necessary. More than one method at a time and rotate them. It will be much easier once you move the rabbits. 

Our rats are not as much under control as I had thought. DS saw five  pop out of a hole in the chicken house door the other day. Young ones, of course, but they don't stay young long. 

We definitely need to give this whole issue more thought. If your rat terrier works out, he will earn his keep. Hey, maybe you can rent him out to other people once your rats are under control.


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## Beaniemom (May 25, 2007)

Turtlehead, do you have any travel cages you could move the does to?

I did have a thought, since the rats are eating and drinking from the feeders/waterers, why not move the rabbits for a night or three, and poisen the feed/water? Although I'd worry they'd crag stuff off...Or remove the rabbits and replace with a herd of cats....


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## turtlehead (Jul 22, 2005)

Beaniemom, I only have two dog travel crate/kennel type things. The plastic type ones, not the metal cage type ones; not ideal but they'll certainly work. I could release a couple of the does to the yard for a few days - they're quite tame and I could easily catch them later and put them in the pen. 

I was thinking I'd have to keep the buck isolated for several weeks so I could be sure whether the does were nursing or ready to kindle... I didn't want to take a nursing doe out of the colony, or move an almost-due-doe to a kennel. 

I wonder how bad it would be to remove a nursing doe each night for a few nights, and put her back every day? Or a pregnant doe?

Let's face it, the worst that would happen is they abort or lose the litter - and I'm already dealing with that due to the rats.

I'll try to think of a way to catch all the rabbits every night for a few nights. Might be tricky....

Oh! I know! I'll take their food away and they'll only get to eat at night when they're in cages/boxes/whatever I can find. I can go out there every evening with food and they'll come running. Then I'll grab them and pop them in their night-time vacation spot.

That's not a bad idea. I have a chick brooder I could use, too... Just need one more cage... maybe I could stash one in the bath tub or the wood stove or the oven


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## MaggieJ (Feb 6, 2006)

The oven? Double 

You could also partition off a corner of the colony and put the extra bun there. The rats won't catch on right away... they will go to the usual feeders and chow down the poison. Just as long as the bun can't escape from the corner pen until you have time to take up the poison.


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## turtlehead (Jul 22, 2005)

MaggieJ said:


> You could also partition off a corner of the colony and put the extra bun there.


:doh:

You and Beaniemom are so smart. I'd just need to be CERTAIN she couldn't tunnel or climb out and get to the poison. Should be do-able.


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## MaggieJ (Feb 6, 2006)

A little less of the :doh:, Turtle!

It's always easier to come up with ideas when you're on the outside looking in... and when you're not the one who has to find the time, energy and materials to implement them!


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## Laura Workman (May 10, 2002)

I wonder how Tracy deals with rats in her colony setup?


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## Laura Workman (May 10, 2002)

Woohoo! The doe that hadn't kindled finally did it today! At least six little wiggles. I didn't want to dig around too much, so the exact number will be a mystery for a few days. I hope these fare as well as the last litter, also in one of the outside cages and now three-and-a-half weeks old with no losses.


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## MaggieJ (Feb 6, 2006)

Super! Congrats on the popples! Take that, you rats!


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## turtlehead (Jul 22, 2005)

Yay!! Things are looking up for you, Laura!

I've decided it will simply take too much time for me to collect all the rabbits each evening and then take them all back out to the rabbitry each morning... so I'm going to lock up the buck for a few weeks (to ensure nobody is preggers/nursing) and then I'll take the does out and wage war on the rats.

My Dad had a good idea, too - he said put a trap or bait up on a pole or something where the rats can climb to it but too high for the rabbits to jump to. I'll probably try that, too.


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## MaggieJ (Feb 6, 2006)

turtlehead said:


> Yay!! Things are looking up for you, Laura!
> 
> I've decided it will simply take too much time for me to collect all the rabbits each evening and then take them all back out to the rabbitry each morning... so I'm going to lock up the buck for a few weeks (to ensure nobody is preggers/nursing) and then I'll take the does out and wage war on the rats.


That's a good idea. It will give you time to develop a master plan to decimate the rats when you make your move. 



turtlehead said:


> My Dad had a good idea, too - he said put a trap or bait up on a pole or something where the rats can climb to it but too high for the rabbits to jump to. I'll probably try that, too.


My turn for the :doh: Your Dad's a pretty smart guy!


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## bluebird2o2 (Feb 14, 2007)

We have two cats that catch rats i saw her eating one and thought it was a wild bunny untill i saw the tail.I was feeeding late one night and saw a rat eating one of my bunnies.i was blaming the mother.


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## MaggieJ (Feb 6, 2006)

The province of Alberta has no rat problem, due to extremely tough government action. Imagine the bliss of not having to deal with rats!


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## turtlehead (Jul 22, 2005)

It would be blissful to not have to fight rats. I'm sure they provide some service in the circle of life but they're a big bumpy spot on my own personal life circle.

I'm so glad Laura started this thread. It makes me feel good to know I'm not the only one fighting this fight. My first reaction, at seeing rat poops in my feeder, was "Oh, no! I have a filthy nasty rabbitry!" 

I'm beginning to realize that rats are a part of country life and not a reflection of my own personal hygiene and housekeeping methods. Rats are in the corn field, the chicken house, the rabbitry... Caught one in a trap in the pantry this morning, and hadn't seen one in the house in MONTHS. Must be that time of year. 

Speaking of natural delights, ticks are out now too. I pulled three off of me yesterday evening.


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## Jennifer L. (May 10, 2002)

Turtlehead, I have a huge rat problem now, too, and I've also been thinking "Rat Terrier" but I'm not sure if I can afford/want to deal with another dog now. I have four now. Anyway, with rats that are right in the rabbitry I keep an empty rabbit cage and put the poison wax blocks in there. It works fine. The rats eat it inside the cage because they can't carry the block out through the wire. You might be able to do that in a colony setup (that's what you have?) with just putting a cage down on the floor, taking out the other rabbit food, and putting the poison inside the rabbit cage. I'm always worried about a risk to the buns, but I'm at the point right now of about having a fit over the rats around here.

I kid you not, I started up the skidsteer in the barn the other day, and after it was running for a minute, a rat came up out of the footwell! I was so surprised it jumped out over the front of the machine and got away from me. I thought it was a freak thing and a minute later ANOTHER one ran out! I didn't get that one, either! Anyway, I have to go on super rat duty now. It's so depressing. I had a colony set up in the fall and winter and no kits at all because of rats. I took it down a month or so ago and everyone is back in cages again. I figure I'd need a solid concrete floor (which it has) plus concrete walls up a foot or so so there are no openings at ground level.

I HATE RATS!!

Jennifer


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## MaggieJ (Feb 6, 2006)

Jennifer, that is a great idea to use the rabbit cage as a bait box. I could do that even where my chickens free range and not have to worry!

Seems to me that the rats have been worse this past year, not just here but all over. Maybe they are at the top of the 7 year cycle. I hope that's all it is!


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## LFRJ (Dec 1, 2006)

Wow. This thread is so long, we could start a knitting club! I've been hanging out over at poultry lately - new batch of goslings. (You Maggie?). I digress. Laura, glad to hear about your latest litter. Your original post (the litter lost to the rats) absolutely haunts me! 

As beginners, we were only lucky enough to have bought a large hutch made of cagewire - we'd otherwise have had the same problems. We'll be making another this weekend - and yup! I'll be using the smaller weave. 

Once I eradicated our population with our aggressive poisoning - I've only had to "retreat" the matter periodically. Compared to the infestation we had - it's a lot more managable. Looks like I have a couple that moved back in under the chicken coop - so I've politely made them feel welcome with some peanut butter smeared nibbles after dark . I actually hate that I have to do this. I feel badly about waging war with any creature. 

I'm stumped over Turtle head's problem with the rats not taking the bait. But then, the rats here also ignored bait boxes altogether. So, I just dropped a chunk in the one recepticle they seemed fond of - a food dish. If it was gone in the morning, I figured good - one less rat. 

Keep at it! It does take some tenacity. 

So, what do they do in Alberta?


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## MaggieJ (Feb 6, 2006)

Hi there, LF & RJ. 

Congrats on the goslings! I am green with envy!  My gander's foot still isn't right. I don't think the rats have been at it again, but it looks a bit swollen and I suspect it is infected. Must take a closer look in the morning. So... no goslings here. Not much interest on the gander's part either. Sigh.

Regarding Alberta's rat control program here is a link:
http://www1.agric.gov.ab.ca/$department/deptdocs.nsf/all/agdex3441


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## turtlehead (Jul 22, 2005)

Jennifer L. said:


> Anyway, with rats that are right in the rabbitry I keep an empty rabbit cage and put the poison wax blocks in there.


This is pure genius. SO simple. SO obvious. SO easy. You are my new best friend :buds:

Rats are wary critters. The bait works great in the chicken house but it did take them a while to find it and trust it. Now I just keep bait out there and check it - when it disappears I replace it. I can go weeks without it being touched and then I can go through a bait chunk every day for 4 or 5 days. I do have the bait right in one of their highways in the wall of the chicken house.

I think with the rabbitry I just haven't gotten it in the right location yet. It's between the water dish (where I've seen them) and the food hutch (where I've seen them) but it may be to the side of their "highway" so they travel a couple of feet away from it. Maybe. Seems like the delicious baity smell would lure them, doesn't it?

Or maybe they just have plenty to eat with the feed and the baby kits  so they don't bother with the bait.

At any rate, I'm going to make some sort of cage and try your method. I'll feel better about that than the metal pipe with rocks mostly blocking the ends. 

What size are the openings in the fencing or whatever you use to make the cage? I want something that's big enough for the rats to get in and out of but small enough that rabbit kits can't get in - may be impossible. I may have to bait when there are no young kits and remove the bait when I have new kits in the rabbitry.

And I may still have to end up removing the rabbits just so I can keep all the food and babies out of the rabbitry so the bait becomes very attractive to the rats...

But the cage idea is grand!


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## Beaniemom (May 25, 2007)

I think we mostly have mice, although I'm sure there are a few rats out there, since we had problems with them before!

I think so far we're happily co existing, they eat the feed I spill everywheres, the cat eats them, they leave the bunnies alone. Of course, they may have gone across the street to the neighbors barn where there is horse and chicken feed!

Now what I don't understand is why the rabbits would allow the "intruder" into the rabbitry? I get tons of "thumping" any time the cat is in there, the ones in the summer quarters were making a racket yesterday morning, I had to check to see if they were under attack or something. Yep, a bird was picking up waste hay for its nest and they were not happy about that!


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## turtlehead (Jul 22, 2005)

Beaniemom said:


> Now what I don't understand is why the rabbits would allow the "intruder" into the rabbitry?


You and me both!! _Especially_ after seeing a video on You-Tube about a rabbit chasing a snake and biting it.

My rabbits ignore the rats, almost like they're a kit with short ears and an extra long tail. They dont' sniff noses or groom it, but they do act like the rat isn't even there.

From what I've seen, the rat visits the water dish and the feeder when the rabbits are off doing something else. So maybe rabbits are super near-sighted and don't really see the rats?

Still, I think they'd put up a hissy fit if they found a rat in a burrow.


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## Beaniemom (May 25, 2007)

I would think so too! Someone on one of the other lists kept finding a mouse in the nestbox, the doe must have been feeding it along with the other kits! Ewwwwww!

I could see in a colony setting, they could be off doing rabbity things while the rats are carting off their babies, but I don't know how it would happen in a cage? Unless your rabbits are eating the babies to "protect" them from the rats..."Jump in my mouth here kids, where you'll be safe"

I think their sense of smell and hearing is much better than their vision. I've had the corneal damaged kits in the house, I would SWEAR they can't see crap, and yet they manage to run amok without running into walls!


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## MaggieJ (Feb 6, 2006)

I am so upset! Those blinkin' rats bit my buck, Tao's ear! :flame::flame: Bad enough that they were going after the gander's foot, but it was already injured and I suppose the blood attracted them. Tao was fine until today... now he has a definite wound on one ear. As an injury it isn't that serious, but *it warns us all that rats will attack a full grown healthy rabbit.*

Ben the gander now spends his nights in a rat-proofed dog crate and Tao is now in a smaller crate in the mudroom. Tomorrow I will finish getting cages ready for the rabbits in the summer rabbitry and then I'll put LOTS of poison down in the winter floor pens. This has got to stop!


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## MaggieJ (Feb 6, 2006)

Here's a variation of the corn cob rat killer, available in the United States.

http://cgi.ebay.ca/Rocon-Rodent-Con...ryZ75581QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem


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## turtlehead (Jul 22, 2005)

Oh, my gosh, Maggie. That's awful!

I had ass-u-med that adult rabbits were safe from rats. Now I'm totally bummed.

Things in the colony are kind of at a stalemate for now. I'm not seeing any rat poops nor am I seeing any kits. The bait is still untouched. 

I'm going to wait a couple of weeks to take the buck out of the colony - I'll be away from home for a few days and my husband is going to have his hands full just taking care of the rabbits in the colony, the chickens, and checking the incubator. I dont' want to add the additional chore of feeding and watering the buck separately, so he'll just stay in the colony a little longer. 

Then, a crate for the buck, wait 8 weeks to ensure no kits in burrows, all the does come out, and WAR ON THE RATS.

You know what concerns me, though? I put bait in the chicken house and it disappears in one to three days. I replace it regularly for maybe a week, even two. Then no activity for a week or even a month. Then back they come.

I'm not sure how I'm going to keep rats OUT of the colony if it means removing the rabbits periodically.

Kind of makes me wonder how I had rabbits out there for over two years with nary a rat problem, and now this. Maybe it's just a really bad rat year?


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## MaggieJ (Feb 6, 2006)

There is no doubt in my mind that it is a really bad rat year. Animals seem to have population cycles, or so I've always heard. The question is, will our individual rat populations recede significantly or are they too firmly entrenched? There were rats here before us - I found rat poops in our bathroom when we took possession - but the population was smaller then. I was naive enough to think that it was only one rat, because that was all we ever saw!


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## Atropos4 (Oct 7, 2007)

We were trying to figure out why all the sudden this year we have the rat problem and I realized that the past three years our neighbors have had a jack russel terrier running around. After someone stole their first one they got a second one and that was stolen last summer. Now they got a pekingese that stays in the house. I think the little jack russels that ran around took care of some of the rat problem before. Also one of the feral cats I tamed and now have in the house used to kill the baby rats. Now we have her strictly indoors. I'm tempted to put a collar on her and let her out to do her job.


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## Jennifer L. (May 10, 2002)

turtlehead said:


> At any rate, I'm going to make some sort of cage and try your method. I'll feel better about that than the metal pipe with rocks mostly blocking the ends.
> 
> What size are the openings in the fencing or whatever you use to make the cage? I want something that's big enough for the rats to get in and out of but small enough that rabbit kits can't get in - may be impossible. I may have to bait when there are no young kits and remove the bait when I have new kits in the rabbitry.


I'm sorry, Turtlehead, I just saw this post. Gosh, the cages are normal rabbit cages. The wire is 1" x 1", and they've been in a lot of cages (dead kits for evidence) so while it seems small I know the little ##[email protected]'s can go through 1" square without problems. My cages are units 20' long divided up with plastic dividers into individual cages, so the rats run along the top and get into whatever cage they like. They are mainly after the pellets, from the evidence, and they attacked and killed kits but they didn't seem like an exclusive target. Once I started keeping poison blocks in empty cages they would clean up the blocks every night.

Hope you get them cleaned out!

Jennifer


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## turtlehead (Jul 22, 2005)

1"x1"? Wow, amazing!

I was wondering how I'd let the rats in but keep the kits out. I think I'll make a couple of bait cages - one 2"x2" for when there are no kits around, and on 1"x1" for when we have kits.

Thanks!

I was glad to see your post about the Jack Russell Terrier, Atropos4. We are planning on getting a Rat Terrier at the end of the month. It will be a puppy, so not hunting rats or mice for a while yet, but I'm still excited.


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## MaggieJ (Feb 6, 2006)

When dealing with rats that come up into the mudroom from our cellar, I prefer to use live traps because our cat uses that entrance when we take her outside and I value her cute little toes. I have two livetraps and the larger one has 1 x 1 wire. A rat got caught in it and when I went to dispatch it, it panicked and tried to get out through the 1 x 1. It got stuck and I bashed it with my cane (my weapon of choice  ). This was a fully adult rat, but not huge. Youngsters could certainly get through 1 x 1 but many of the larger ones could not. We found wire shelving with 3/4 inch slats to successfully exclude rats. I may try making cages out of some of this. It sometimes shows up at yard sales or thrift shops and is very handy stuff to have around.


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## Jennifer L. (May 10, 2002)

MaggieJ said:


> Youngsters could certainly get through 1 x 1 but many of the larger ones could not. We found wire shelving with 3/4 inch slats to successfully exclude rats. I may try making cages out of some of this. It sometimes shows up at yard sales or thrift shops and is very handy stuff to have around.


I wonder if maybe I'm killing out the younger population in my cages then. Yay! But I do find some pretty big dead adults on occasion (most of the time I don't find them, so they probably die in their tunnels.)

Gosh, Maggie, have to watch you with that cane! LOL! 

Jennifer


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## MaggieJ (Feb 6, 2006)

Jennifer L. said:


> I wonder if maybe I'm killing out the younger population in my cages then. Yay! But I do find some pretty big dead adults on occasion (most of the time I don't find them, so they probably die in their tunnels.)
> 
> Gosh, Maggie, have to watch you with that cane! LOL!
> 
> Jennifer


Yeah, I'm dangerous, for sure. 

The cane has a few notches on it.  Two rats and several mice that were caught in snap traps but not dead.

The large rats you find may be victims of secondary poisoning. You can't tell me a rat wouldn't eat his dead buddies!


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## LFRJ (Dec 1, 2006)

Our saga continues. Yesterday I discovered that the single egg our muscovie hen was sitting on had completely vanished. She only had 7 days to go. I could find no trace of it, and I suspect a rat. Over in the poultry forum someone suggested ot may be a snake, but I don't think it's been consistently warm enough for them to emerge. 

Whatever it was came during the day - she's shut in at night. 
*
Will rats steal eggs*? It's the only thing I can think of that would take the egg, but not the duck. 

I'm still routinely leaving a poison chunk out. Tonight, I'm going to smear it with bacon grease! Muuaahaahahaa ha!


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## MaggieJ (Feb 6, 2006)

Yes, rats will certainly steal eggs. I haven't had it happen here yet (that I know of) but I've been warned that they will by someone I know with years of poultry experience.

We had a nice milk snake in our garden the other day. It seemed pretty sluggish but was enjoying a few rays. We told it to hurry up and grow big enough to hunt rats. Any snake big enough to eat an egg is likely to kill enough rats to pay for them.


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## pookiethebear (Apr 29, 2008)

Rats can collaps their bodies to fit into a hole the size of pencile eraser! That is amazing when you think about it....scary, but amazing.


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## MaggieJ (Feb 6, 2006)

pookiethebear said:


> Rats can collaps their bodies to fit into a hole the size of pencile eraser! That is amazing when you think about it....scary, but amazing.


I know it seems that way sometimes, but their skull alone is larger than that. Where did you find that bit of information?


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## LFRJ (Dec 1, 2006)

Don't know about pencil erasers, but we once chased a fat feller up the side of our chicken wire fence. At about 3 feet, he stopped, struggled and scrambled for a split second - and then went right through! And we'd gone the extra mile and bought the chicken wire with the smaller mesh too! 

Our mouths fell open and we just stood there absolutely amazed. :stars:

After that experience, we were dubious about a 'have-a-heart' live traps. We did eventually get one, and had no results - but Maggie I believe has met with some success...but yep. They seem to have Superhero powers when pressedl (or Super-villain to be more accurate).


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## MaggieJ (Feb 6, 2006)

I have two sizes of live traps. The chipmunk trap has wire about 3/4 inch by 1 inch and it will contain a rat. I've caught many in it, young and old, and dispatched them with the pellet gun at point blank range. It's the only trap I will set in the mud room because of Marilla's pretty little feet. At one time I used to set the larger live trap as well. It has 1 by 1 wire. That was the one the rat I bashed :bash: with my cane got caught trying to escape from. I didn't enjoy that and I rarely use that trap now. Just my experiences with what rats can and can't get through.


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## kabri (May 14, 2002)

Last year, we lost turkey poults right from under or near the hen who had just hatched them out to rats! We are East of Seattle, not too far from the land fill that serves King County, so we are constantly fighting rats. Ugh... can't wait until we move!

Anyway, we finally had to resort to poison after years of trying most of what you all mentioned above. Bucket trap w/water did not work, caught/killed one very large rat with the rat zapper, then it never worked after that. pretty expensive for a one-shot deal! We even had rats eat our entire crop of beets in the garden! 

We have been using Tomcat bait http://www.tomcatbrand.com/rodent_control_products. Research DH did with poison control here resulted in a reassurance that poisoning to our dogs if they ate a rat which was dying from the bait was very unlikely. Not totally safe, but way lower chance of illness than the other type of poisons. So far, dogs are fine. I just hated to use poison, but we were being over-run with the disgusting creatures.


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## Jennifer L. (May 10, 2002)

MaggieJ said:


> I know it seems that way sometimes, but their skull alone is larger than that. Where did you find that bit of information?


Maggie, I read a long time ago that they can dislocate their jaw to make their head small enough. Maybe they have a more elastic joint there. I remember seeing a TV show about them and you have to be really diligent to keep them out. They can jump three feet in any direction, and when you consider that, it's pretty hard to keep them out of anywhere. Darn, I hate rats. :flame:

Jennifer


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## GBov (May 4, 2008)

This is just an idea that I had a while ago but as rats are so much like us could you grind up birth control pills and bait grain with it? If they cant breed and you are killing them in every other way poss. it might be a way to get ahead of the game.

As I said, its just an idea but it might work and ANYTHING that helps is worth trying.


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## Beaners (Feb 23, 2005)

Please don't do that with the BC pills. There have been studies that show how hormones from our BC pills are affecting the gender ratios among freshwater fish, among other things.

A rat's gestation period is about 3 weeks, and the male babies can become sexually mature by 5 weeks old. Females usually aren't able to reproduce until 6 to 7 weeks old. Just FYI, if people were wondering.

Kayleigh


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## LFRJ (Dec 1, 2006)

Hey Kabri! Thanks for sharing. We're east of Seattle too - Duvall actually. I don't think we're near a landfill, but the people who owned the property before we bought used it as a private landfill themselves.

hmmmm...Let's see...when we closed the deal there were 13 junk vehicles, 3 dilpidated truck containers and 2000 lbs of trash to remove. The home itself is a perpetual fixer-upper. Last year when we hired an excavator to fill in the pond the former owners thought it cool to create - (don't wanna be a wetland!) we found where they'd buried the shingles. This year we started up our blackberry eradication again. We found a boat trailer and the remaints of a tractor (in pieces).

Taking on a property with this many issues is the only way we could afford land at all - it's outrageoulsy expensive out here folks! But as you can see, it came with a rat problem as well, though it seems this year the population has really exploded.

I think Gbov may be on to something, though it may be up to a scientist to figure out. If we can't eradicate them completely - can we slow down their breeding somehow? I believe there is a program Seattle is using in the city to reduce the rabbit population - particularly around the zoo. Somehow they're sterilizing the males. Not sure if they're capturing and neutering or quite what - but I like the concept. Salt Peter? 

You'd think we could put our heads together and figure it out. This part of the forum exists for rabbit raisers (a distant rodent cousin), and how many of us are dealing with a buck with opposite issues. :shrug:


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## turtlehead (Jul 22, 2005)

Update on my rat sitch - the bait was gone when I checked it this morning!! Whoot! It took WEEKS for those rats to get brave enough to nibble it, but once they did they ate the whole thing. I put another one out there this morning.

The timing is perfect, too, because I have kits getting ready to come out (I *hope* - if they're still alive in their burrow) and another doe just kindled four days ago. So maybe the rats will be gone long enough for these does to raise a couple of litters.

I still haven't made a little cage for bait - I like that idea a lot, but I absolutely have not had time. I like the little cage idea because it will let me get the bait up into the feeder hutch where I'll see the kits before they're old enough to navigate the ramp into the feeder hutch; I'll be able to remove the bait before they can get to it. Right now the bait is still in a pipe on the ground and a curious kit could get to it before I even knew the kits were coming out on exploration forays.


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## MaggieJ (Feb 6, 2006)

That's great that they have accepted the bait, Turtlehead. 

We're making progress here too. We started a second round of poisoning. Now that the rabbits are down in the summer rabbitry in cages, we can place bait in the winter rabbitry, since none of our critters can get in there. It took about three days for them to touch the bait.

Now that the geese are mainly on pasture and the chickens have plenty to eat from free ranging, I am no longer feeding grain to them at night. I give them a moderate amount in the yard when they are right there to eat it... and other than that they forage. I know the rats are feeling the pinch with no grain to eat, but I could not believe what happened last night.

We have been placing only 2 - 3 packs a night because this can get expensive and we figure the dominant rats get it anyway so we are hoping we are working down the pecking order. Well, last evening I forgot until about 10 pm... so I went down in my jammies and found 1 1/2 dead rats! There was a little one dead in the yard and a huge one in the goose house: no head or front quarters, just the spine neatly picked clean and some skin on the belly neatly folded back so they could eat the guts. One rat scurried away from the carcass. So yes, the rats do eat their fallen comrades... we're hoping for two poisonings for the price of one.

All this was between 7 pm when David closed up the buildings and 10 pm. Efficient!

Brian had a box of poison down in his workshop. The rats found it and have been going back and forth all weekend to eat it. He's been plinking at them with the pellet gun but also observing them. They are fighting among themselves. Some look lethargic. This is beginning to look promising!

Die, rats, die!

(The bad news is they are back in the cellar again... and I don't want to use poison there. But I think we know how they are getting in, so if we can plug that and then trap the ones that are inside, we should be okay. For some reason they are easier to trap indoors than out.)


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## turtlehead (Jul 22, 2005)

Maggie, your description of the partially cannibalized rat was disgusting, but I couldn't look away 

Hopefully with nice weather they'll move out of our storage areas and critter housing and out into "the world" a little bit. I wonder why they're so bad this year?


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## MaggieJ (Feb 6, 2006)

It was disgusting, wasn't it? I couldn't look away either.  

But it was interesting too... and it is not a bad thing to be able to identify eating patterns of predators. 

I found a lethargic young rat in the chicken yard awhile ago. My "weapon of choice" claimed another victim. :viking: This is war!


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## LFRJ (Dec 1, 2006)

yay! Maggie, Yay turtlehead. :rock: Glad you're 'winning the war'. Since were months ahead of you, let me share that you'll need to remain vigilent, though without "the surge". I lapsed, thinking the rats were gone, and then saw a few holes re-emerge, so I let them have their holes and started baiting AGAIN. My big test is sporadically leaving a big chunk out open (in a food bowl) at night. When it's still there the next morning, I'll know the penduulum has swung. So far, they're still taking the bait. 

I was finally forced to put out our new chicks. They've been getting acclimated to outside and the activities from the safety of a left over rabbit hutch, but frankly, I need to move the baby rabbits like SOON! Mom is contending with 6 and they're well past weaned. Soo.....I baited like crazy for a week, and then plugged up the holes with gravel, and mud mixed with steel wool. I think that steel wool trick really works. 

They may dig another hole, but don't seem to re-use the one plugged with the pulled wool. This gives me a jump on them...I can see their engineering in advance!


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## Pony (Jan 6, 2003)

<shudder>

I'm reading and taking notes, but at the same time, I am so grossed out...

When I was in undergrad, I raised and trained rats. THOSE rats were cute and cuddly and smart.

The rats you're describing are icky and mean and smart. A serious adversary...

Oh, well, I hope we don't have a rat problem when we move, but I will be on top of it like you wouldn't believe. I've actually overcome my fear of mice because of the garden and storing hay in the shed. They're out there, I chase them down and stomp them. Never would have done that before...

Rats. <shudder again> I hates 'em!

Pony!


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## MaggieJ (Feb 6, 2006)

I hates them too, Pony!


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## Beaniemom (May 25, 2007)

I moved the big hutch this weekend (The bottom hutch just had poo fall down, no tray) When I shovled it up there were tunnels thru the poo, Ewwwwww! Just thought I should mention it if you have a poo pile, they're probably living in it. Ick.

Definetly a largish hole out there. I filled it in, and it just dug back out. Whatever it is, we're coexisting nicely, it eats the stuff I spill and leaves the bunnies alone. I feel guilty about putting a trap or something out there! I don't have any live traps though, I'd hate to find out it was wild bunnies or something! I have to go to the feed store tomorrow, guess I'll PU a live trap and see what it is...


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## MaggieJ (Feb 6, 2006)

Wild bunnies in North America do not dig holes the way European rabbits (from which domestic buns are descended) do... They have their babies in a shallow depression lined with dry grass etc. So it won't be a cottontail.

If the hole is 3 - 4 inches across it is almost certainly a rat. Chipmunk holes are smaller, about 2 inches maximum. I *plead* with you to get rid of this critter before it can breed. It may co-exist not too badly now, but when there are dozens of them running around they will become aggressive and relentless. Ask my gander, Ben or my buck, Tao.


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## MaggieJ (Feb 6, 2006)

Just for the record, we have found 13 dead or dying rats since last Friday. There are not nearly so many still mobile and most of those look lethargic. I scout around a couple of times a day to remove the carcasses and kill any sick ones I can find. Beaniemom, are you listening?


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## Beaniemom (May 25, 2007)

Yeah, they are some good sized tunnels. I hate to just kill it, maybe it would like to take a drive to visit? LOL (We had a Degu for a pet, it was very rat like!) Its been out there for a while, I tried sticky traps and they just drug them away!

I don't think they're mousie tunnels, oh, I had a terrible thought, do snakes make tunnels? I hate snakes...Those I would kill! :O 

Of course, I am the person who tells my DH to just plant "extra" for the deer and the bunnies to eat!


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## GBov (May 4, 2008)

A friend of mine had a terable rat problem in his house but practicly over night the rats all disapeared. He really started worrying, like, what did the rats know that he didnt? kind of thing until he moved his stove and found a 9 ft shed rat snake skin. He and the snake live happily together for many years with never a rat problem to worry about LOL

Snakes are great for rats, its just a shame they only eat twice a week or so.


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## MaggieJ (Feb 6, 2006)

Beaniemom said:


> Yeah, they are some good sized tunnels. I hate to just kill it, maybe it would like to take a drive to visit? LOL (We had a Degu for a pet, it was very rat like!) Its been out there for a while, I tried sticky traps and they just drug them away!
> 
> I don't think they're mousie tunnels, oh, I had a terrible thought, do snakes make tunnels? I hate snakes...Those I would kill! :O
> 
> Of course, I am the person who tells my DH to just plant "extra" for the deer and the bunnies to eat!


Beaniemom, there is nothing nice about wild rats. (A domestic rat or a degu is quite another story.) If you value your rabbits, you will get rid of the rats now. They breed fast and when the competiton for food gets fierce and the spills are not enough, they will start looking for ways to get at your rabbits. They also carry diseases your rabbits (and even you)  can catch. They will run over the cages and pee and poop as they go. Get a few of the new style rat traps (Victor or T-Rex are both good.) They can be baited when unset and then easily set with no danger to your fingers. They kill instantly so they are humane.


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## MaggieJ (Feb 6, 2006)

XXXXXXXXXX
XXXXXXX

Seventeen dead rats, and counting...


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## RedTartan (May 2, 2006)

I've read most of this thread with great interest as I'm battling rats in my basement. I kept the animal feed there while we were building our barn. Now I have rats. 

I know this is going to sound strange. But I had my grain in the basement for over a year and didn't get rats until I caught the hamster. My sons' hamster "King Dude-icus" escaped. I thought him long dead until I was doing laundry in the basement, turned around to go upstairs, and there he was! He was munching some chicken scratch. I walked over to him, picked him up, and he lived out his days back in his cage. We started noticing rat droppings shortly after I "caught" him.

Hamsters are desert animals. Because of the short supply of resources in the desert, they are fiercely territorial. Could King Dude-icus have been keeping the rats out of my basement? I'm not sure, but I am considering buying another male hamster and letting it loose in the basement...

RedTartan


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## MaggieJ (Feb 6, 2006)

I can't imagine a hamster winning a fight with a rat. On the other hand, I remember my Dad saying that rats and mice are not found together. I figured it was because the rats killed the mice... but maybe rats are put off by the presence of other rodents. I can't believe it could be that simple... but if you try it and it works, please please please let us know.


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## RedTartan (May 2, 2006)

Omigosh! MaggieJ, read this link!

http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/308194/pets_rats_or_hamsters.html

It's an article comparing rats and hamsters... To sum up: Hamster are much more aggressive than rats. I think that rats would rather run than face an angry hamster! I'm gonna do it! I'm going to get a hamster next time I'm at the mall. I will let you know how it works out...

RedTartan

ETA: I found another link that says that Golden and syrian hamsters will fight to the death with another rodent! Good grief! I'm actually excited now...


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## MaggieJ (Feb 6, 2006)

How many rats do you think are down there? It might be one thing for a territorial hamster to keep rats out and quite another for one who is the "new kid" to take on an established population.

Domestic rats are very nice critters. My son had two when he was little and I liked them very much. But, wild rats are nasty things. I've live trapped them and had them hiss and scream in rage and actually attack the barrel of the pellet gun that I was about to shoot them with through the bars of the trap.

If you try it, be sure to post your results. It would be fantastic if it works.


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## pookshollow (Aug 22, 2005)

A friend of mine kept Guinea pigs in her barn as it was said to keep the rats away.

Well, add me to the list of confirmed rat haters! DH and I watched in horror the other night as a rat that was *in* the rabbit cage (with a mother and her kits) squoze through the 1x1 wire. If I'd had gloves on, I would have grabbed it and killed it, but not bare-handed. Now I know how rat droppings get in the feeders, despite my having covers on all of them. :viking:

I have one empty hole, and I put a snap trap in it - next door to the cage where the rat was. They tripped it, but no rat. 

Anyone have any luck with ferrets? I don't think my boss will let me take a mink home.


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## RedTartan (May 2, 2006)

MaggieJ said:


> How many rats do you think are down there? It might be one thing for a territorial hamster to keep rats out and quite another for one who is the "new kid" to take on an established population.
> 
> Domestic rats are very nice critters. My son had two when he was little and I liked them very much. But, wild rats are nasty things. I've live trapped them and had them hiss and scream in rage and actually attack the barrel of the pellet gun that I was about to shoot them with through the bars of the trap.
> 
> If you try it, be sure to post your results. It would be fantastic if it works.


Population is way down now. We poisoned all the rats several months ago and wound up finding 8 bodies. I know there's still one or two down there because I see a very tiny amount of rat poo. 

My rats weren't nasty. I decided to revert to poison when I became sure that my cats wouldn't eat the rats. I opened the basement door to go downstairs one day to see one of my cats sitting next to a plump, sleek, black rat eating out of the catfood bag together. My cats will kill finches and mice but apparently the rats were big enough that they thought they were "mine" and "off limits". 

The rats didn't run from us unless we got too close. Heck, maybe they're descended from escaped domesticated rats. 

So, pook, guinea pigs work too? That sounds like a good solution to barn rats. Hey, we can all set hamsters free in our basements and keep guineas in the barn and be naturally rat-free! 

Where's my coffee?

 RedTartan


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## MaggieJ (Feb 6, 2006)

XXXXX XXXXX
XXXXX XXXX

Nineteen and counting. Two very young rats drowned last night in the baby bath that the geese use. I speculate these little ones were still nursing and when Momma didn't come home were driven from the nest by hunger and thirst. I think five of our nineteen dead rats have been drowned juveniles. This tub is half sunk into the ground so the geese can't spill it easily, so it is very easy for the rats to get into. We've never had much luck with bucket traps for adult rats, but it's nice to be able to get rid of the youngsters this way before they get to breeding age.

My Dad used to say that a caged rat kept in an outbuilding would repel wild rats. Trouble with my Dad's ideas on subjects like this is that while many of them were right on the money, some others were dead wrong. :shrug:


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## Beaniemom (May 25, 2007)

Hmmm, free range guinea pigs? LOL Wonder if gunea pigs dig tunnels? (Since you never know what the neighbors may have let loose! I swear there is another rabbit out there that isn't a wild one, by DH asked me if I was "sure" I hadn't misplaced any!)

I just can't imagine that one of my rabbits would let a rat in their cage without stomping it to death! I had a stupid chicken yesterday following me around like a puppy, it tried to get in the rabbit cages every time I opened one, I told him that would probably be the last time he got in a cage, but he didn't listen. Have I mentioned how stupid these chickens are? They get out of the pen, then forget how to get back in!

I so need to set some traps, I just put a brick over the opening, they haven't dug out of it yet...


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## Beaners (Feb 23, 2005)

Well, I have a LOT of pet rats, and while there were wild rats and mice in the house when we moved in, they are all gone now. But we have close to 30 pet rats, so I don't know if that is feasible for most people. And our cats haven't helped a bit, because they have been told that the rats are off limits.

I was actually going to suggest using a female rat in a cage to "bait" the big males. Female rats go into heat every four or five days, and most rat owners can recognize the signs right away. They mount each other and they quiver their ears when you pet them. Perhaps you could borrow a female or two and put them in a cage, and put traps around it, or maybe a bucket moat? In my experience, a large male would be able to do the most damage to any livestock. Even my other females are "interested" in females in heat, so you might attract some of the females too.

I think a large buck rat would be more likely to repel other rats than a female if kept in a cage. In my experience, even with wild rats, you can tame down anything up to an older juvenile male or a female with babies. (Obviously, you don't want to do this though.) The adult males, they are the big nasty ones. (Of course with pets, they are the smushiest and friendliest, go figure.)

Hamsters are nasty little devils, and I wouldn't be surprised if one of them could fight off a few rats.

Kayleigh


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## MaggieJ (Feb 6, 2006)

How goes the battle, fellow rat-haters? :viking:

We found 21 dead rats in about a 10-day space. Since then, the bait has been untouched. I know there are still a few around and we have begun another round of poisoning with those green weather-proof baits, but they are definitely much reduced, to the point where they have ceased to be a major problem.

We will continue to make the baits available, switching the type from time to time. We found that an empty glass coffee jar placed in an out-of-the-way location (under buildings, under the pallets where the hay is stored etc.) is an effective way of placing the poison. It gives protection from dampness and keeps it away from the chickens.

This time we are not making the mistake of thinking that the war is over. :bash:


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## turtlehead (Jul 22, 2005)

Good news on my rat-fighting front!

The rats FINALLY noticed the bait in the pipe that I placed out in the rabbit colony. It took them almost two months I think (I could look up the dates but why bother?). I've been through LOTS of those green bait chunks and they're still disappearing. I've found one dead rat in the colony. The rest must be dying in the tunnels or going away to die.

I have kits in a burrow and I'm holding my breath hoping they survive, come out into the world, and live to be butchered. 

I saw one kit from another litter in the burrow a while back and I was surprised how big it was; probably about 2.5 or 3 weeks old at least. I didn't think a rat would bother with it but that little guy never came out of the burrow  So I'm hesitant to have high hopes about this new litter.

I haven't had kits (that lived) all spring. It's disheartening but I feel like I'm finally making slow progress. I still want to build a little cage to hold the bait (so the kits don't get at it but the rats do) but I haven't had time. Heck, my tomatoes aren't even in the ground yet. It's been a busy spring.

That's crazy about the hamsters. I wonder, though, if the cure might we worse than the problem? If the hamsters are that agressive, might they also kill rabbit kits?


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## Beaniemom (May 25, 2007)

You could import some of those huge guniea pig things from Fl, course than you'd probably be overrun with them like they are in Fl!

Other than catching a large white rat (errrr, dog) I haven't caught anything. Kitty left me a headless mousie the other day though!


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## MaggieJ (Feb 6, 2006)

Turtlehead, glad to hear they are finally taking the bait. You will likely find that the kit-eating stops once the main offenders are dead. It seems to take rats a while to work up to really nasty tricks like that. I've noticed here that the remaining rats are timid whereas only a couple of weeks ago the varmints were totally brazen. I suspect they gain courage in numbers.

I hope the latest litter survives. One good thing, rats that have eaten poison very quickly become sick and lethargic and lose interest in bothering anything. It would likely be a good idea to keep a bait box of some type in place permanently to keep from being overrun again. I know I am going to!

Beaniemom, I hope you thanked kitty for the nice present.


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## turtlehead (Jul 22, 2005)

I finally have kits that came out of the burrow!!!

Saw three last night and again this morning. Not a huge litter but after what I've been through, I'm thrilled to have any survivors. These guys are all fat and playful. They're at that stage where everything startles them and they can leap vertically with no apparent preparatory "bunching and gathering".

I butchered the last batch back in .. November, I think, and these are the first to make it above ground since that bunch. The rats are still nibbling on the bait I set out so I'm in a bit of a quandary about if/when to pull the bait. I don't really know if I have other litters below ground or not (don't *think* so, but I've been fooled before). I watched these guys carefully and they're not even nibbling on the little bit of grass that was set out for the adults so the bait is not an issue _right_now_. I don't think they're much into solid foods yet. Of course that can change in the blink of an eye.


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## MaggieJ (Feb 6, 2006)

Turtlehead, that is GREAT that you have some kits! :bouncy: I'm so happy for you!

I think you may need to keep bait in there permanently in some form. Maybe you could put in a short post with a bait box on top. That should keep the kits from getting it but still allow the rats access without too much effort. You might want to wire the bait in place so they eat it there instead of carrying it away. Or maybe place the bait inside an old cage that would keep the rabbits out but let the rats in, as Jennifer suggested.


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## turtlehead (Jul 22, 2005)

MaggieJ, I think you're right. I keep a bait chunk placed at the chicken house all the time. Sometimes it's ignored, most times it's nibbled on, sometimes the whole thing gets eaten between morning and evening watering! Now that the rats have discovered the bait in the rabbit colony, I see the same behavior there. 

I think the cage is the best idea, just need to GET IT MADE. Won't take any time at all once I START. 

I'm so excited. Kits!


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## LFRJ (Dec 1, 2006)

Congrats to all of you - and new kit owners! I've been away from our Rat Warriors Support Group! for a while, but am happy to see some real progress!

Maggie, that's has GOT to feel good. Sound's like you had quite an infestation. So did we. And I'm forever looking for more holes.

We put our second round of chicks out - they are approaching one month. So far, no losses, but lots more food sprinkled on the ground to feed everybody, which makes me nervous. 

I'm truly interested in the guinea pig or hamster solution - IF- their habits do not mimick rats - that is, would they attack small birds or rabbit kits? Would they stick around? I don't know much about hamsters, but my heart could deal with an occasional hamster sighting in the chicken/rabbit run much better than a run-in with a snake. I've tried everything, but I'm simply a hopeless snake-a-phobe. They startle me sooo badly. I am "not related to Eve", so I don't know why.


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## pookshollow (Aug 22, 2005)

I finally got the varmint that was sneaking in and out of the rabbit cages. I went in to feed the other night, and it was in with the bigger kits, looking like it was having trouble getting out of the cage. I remembered I had an old leather glove lying around so I went and put it on.

Yup, I grabbed that sucker and pulled it out (after handling mink, one little rat is nuthin!) - offered it to the barn cat first, but she was busy eating mink feed and couldn't be bothered. So, I went and got my trusty hammer :viking: and I haven't seen any rat pellets in the feed since!


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## turtlehead (Jul 22, 2005)

You GRABBED a RAT?!
You BASHED it with a HAMMER?!!

I am in awe. I think you are my new hero.

We have *two* litters of kits in the colony - DH counted eleven kits yesterday. I think it's litters of 4 (after possible losses) and 7 but not sure. Who cares? Eleven kits! Woot!


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## GBov (May 4, 2008)

WooooHOOOOOO

well done you! ! ! !


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## pookshollow (Aug 22, 2005)

Like I said, after mink . . . 

You should see my possum catching technique.


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## turtlehead (Jul 22, 2005)

pookshollow said:


> You should see my possum catching technique.


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## LFRJ (Dec 1, 2006)

pookshollow said:


> You should see my possum catching technique.


Bullet proof gloves?


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## pookshollow (Aug 22, 2005)

Nope, a noose. If you can find a pipe to run a piece of nylon rope through to make a loop, it's good - that way you can catch the little varmint and still have it at arm's length. Otherwise, just a slipknot at the end of the rope. They're inclined to back up and hiss at you, and I've found it quite easy to slip the noose around their necks and pull it tight.

*Then* you bash them with a hammer!  I tried broomsticking them like a rabbit, but it only broke the broomstick.

Funny, before we moved here, I didn't have this murderous streak. :croc:


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## Skykomish (May 28, 2008)

Wow I read this whole post and I dont even have rats. But I had a couple thoughts that might help? I have 2 barn cats and they live in the same building as the rabbits. The rabbits just got used to them being around all the time so they aren't afraid of them. The female cat even sits on top of their cage. Also, if you want a ratting dog- try rescue. Way cheaper and you're saving a life! They do sometimes have puppies too. 
http://www.therealjackrussell.com/rescue/index.php
http://www.americanratterrier.com/


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## turtlehead (Jul 22, 2005)

Our cats do a fair job with the mice (there are too many mice and too few cats) but they're no match for rats. They're kind of delicate little things; I think we need some bruiser tom cats.

Rescue is a great idea!

I can't believe you read this whole thread.
Bored??


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## pookshollow (Aug 22, 2005)

[QUOTEAlso, if you want a ratting dog- try rescue. ][/QUOTE]

We got a Jack Russell for rats (the rescue people wouldn't have touched him with a bargepole). So far he's killed two chickens, attacked the ducks with murderous intent, oh and he has killed _one_ rat. We caught it first, put it in a barrel and threw the dog in with it. 

Our barncat, ratter par excellence, had a litter of three kittens. We gave two away and we're keeping the third one, hoping that mama cat will teach her to catch rats too.


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## MaggieJ (Feb 6, 2006)

Bumping this up because it's that time of year again.  

They're baaack! :help:

Didn't see much sign of them all last fall or winter... but they must be breeding like fruit flies. Just a reminder to everyone to be vigilant. If you see one rat, you likely have a couple of dozen or more.


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## brody (Feb 19, 2009)

ok I just read the WHOLE thread with bated breath..

we have had the grand daddy of all PEC rats destroying our house the last two winters - the damage he has wrecked is AMAZING .. truly there is no other word ...he must have been close to 2 feet long - just given his stretch ..
we got a chunk of his tail (in a trap) and it was over 10 inches .. and he came BACK... EW

My dogs are DYING to kill him - and have killed others in his stead 
late last fall they tore a rat in half (while my in laws were over having lunch - lovely timing) outside thank heavens ...

this winter we haven't had the same degree of problem - though there are some signs of mice (so maybe the rat is gone so the mice can play?) gimme mice any day


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## MaggieJ (Feb 6, 2006)

LOL, Brody... you read the whole thread??? I've been rereading it too... instant pep talk for our current situation.

Some of those rats can get really big... but if I saw one two feet long I think I would run away screaming!


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## brody (Feb 19, 2009)

imagine my reaction to finding a 10 inch tail section that didn't seem to be whole thing in the trap 

I am very ungirly about snakes and bugs and mice (and most everything else!) but I screamed, I truly screamed like a girl ... 

and yah - I read every word ... thinking - OMG.. OMG... 

I want to find another post about your summer vs winter bunny set up - have you posted about that anywhere here?


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## MaggieJ (Feb 6, 2006)

*X*

It's a start. Caught one the mudroom last night using the live-trap with sunflower seeds as bait. I heard the trap door drop, so I went along and dispatched it with the pellet gun through the bars of the trap. I must have looked pretty silly in a nightgown and rubber boots, carrying pellet gun, trap and dead rat.


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## stranger (Feb 24, 2008)

simple solution, staple 1/2 inch wire over the cages, get the food or pellets out of the area, put down rat poison, usually just taking away their food will send them on their way. lucky you're not on snake country because rats draw copperheads and rattlesnakes.


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## MaggieJ (Feb 6, 2006)

Bumping this up... anyone have any fresh ideas for dealing with rats in the cellar? They're beginning to come up into the kitchen under the cupboard units which are not accessible for trapping. I don't want to poison them in the house because of the smell of decaying carcasses. 

Did anyone try the guinea pig/hamster/caged rat thing? Did it help?


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## LFRJ (Dec 1, 2006)

Hi Maggie. Since poisson is out of the question, I'd have to say traps (lots of em) a rat dog let loose in the cellar might be the best bet. I understand they're more likely to take on a larger rat than eventhe best toms - and some of those little jack russels are incorrigible. 

Not that you need another mouth to feed, or will be successful in finding a good one. 

If not a rat dog - maybe a ferrit? They smell better than decaying carcass at least. They' won't come when you call them, and I don't know much about them, but I'll bet they'll instinctively know what to do face to face with a rat.

Just a couple of thoughts. How'd the battle go with the outside infestation? DOn't have time to read the whole thread again.


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## MaggieJ (Feb 6, 2006)

Hi LFRJ. Outside the rats are not too bad because we poison them and keep the numbers down... and the outbuildings not too close to the house. But these cellar rats are a trickier problem. I think we will have to close off wherever they are getting in and then trap them... likely will never get them all. There were rats here when we moved in eight years ago and I suppose there always will be.

A ferret might be a good idea. I'm just not keen on taking on any more animals just now. We had a nice little weasel around awhile ago that was decimating the mice, but the rats are as big as she was. I say she because she was carrying a mouse every time we saw her, always heading in the same direction, so I expect she was feeding a litter. I wish another mink would move here. That was the best rat control we ever had. 

I did mix up some plaster of Paris with flour and icing sugar for the house rats once and we did not have a problem with odours and the rats did seem to diminish... so maybe I'll try that again too. Perhaps it makes them thirsty and they go outside to die.

Did I mention that I HATE rats? :flame:


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## denaliguide (Aug 30, 2008)

not the ultimate weapon, but a start, would be to raise a kitten around your rabbits [ my rabbits ? ], so that the kitten sees the rabbits as part of their environment, and PERHAPS the rabbits would find it easier to accept the kitten, as it grows. Some kind of small terrier, is probably the ultimate weapon, as domestic animal, and indeed a mink or weasel as a wild animal.

So far this has me thinking about trying to keep a cleaner operation and perhaps culling those rabbits that dig in their feed and cause it to fall out of their cages, creating a great bonus attractor for all kinds of vermin. I figure some basic steel leghold traps and some P of P + Icing or Brownie mix are a start. For those unfamilar, traps in the "Conibear" style are simply large frame 'Scissor style" snap frames kill muskrats perfectly and suit for hole, trail, and bait sets if you can obtain them and care to use them. 

Yes I read the WHOLE thread and I think the problem is bad enuf to take as many steps as one needs to get rid of it or assure it does not start. 

Basic trapping principles will take big steps to get rid of rats, but putting the bait in a recently used but empty rabbit cage is one of the master strokes I have read here so far.

Good Luck,

DG



MaggieJ said:


> Hi LFRJ. Outside the rats are not too bad because we poison them and keep the numbers down... and the outbuildings not too close to the house. But these cellar rats are a trickier problem. I think we will have to close off wherever they are getting in and then trap them... likely will never get them all. There were rats here when we moved in eight years ago and I suppose there always will be.
> 
> A ferret might be a good idea. I'm just not keen on taking on any more animals just now. We had a nice little weasel around awhile ago that was decimating the mice, but the rats are as big as she was. I say she because she was carrying a mouse every time we saw her, always heading in the same direction, so I expect she was feeding a litter. I wish another mink would move here. That was the best rat control we ever had.
> 
> ...


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## Cece6 (Feb 21, 2009)

I havent read the whole thread but do chickens keep the rats out?
We have only two hens and they are free range in the rabbit shed.so far I havent had any mice, rats, wasps or flys and its hot and humid so they should be rampant.
Is it the chickens?


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## LFRJ (Dec 1, 2006)

Cece6 said:


> I havent read the whole thread but do chickens keep the rats out?
> We have only two hens and they are free range in the rabbit shed.so far I havent had any mice, rats, wasps or flys and its hot and humid so they should be rampant.
> Is it the chickens?


Nope! Rats will steal eggs, tug chicks down holes, and in extreme cases a herd of hungry rats will even attack and devour full grown chickens. So no, a chicken is not a deterrent...in fact, I'd wager to say that if anything, they are a magnet, since the rats love nothing more than to lay wait for any uneaten scratch.


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## Beltane (Nov 27, 2005)

I know this is an old thread, but I just had to let everyone know that the information here has been VERY helpful to me.  I am going through a terrible rat problem at the moment, and this thread has giving me hope that there IS light at the end of the tunnel! Thanks again! :banana02:


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## MaggieJ (Feb 6, 2006)

It's an old thread, but a good one to come back to every now and again. Glad you found it helpful, Beltane.


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## stanb999 (Jan 30, 2005)

I just searched "rats" Yep, we have them. I've been baiting them for a week and need more. They ate it up.  Well tonight I was looking out the window and saw one going for a pile of feed my dear wife left for the egg layers. Well I shot two with the shot gun. :clap: Then an hour later I shot 2 more. I hope I can get them under control before winter and they wanna come in the house. 


One thing that seems to have helped is we put all the feed into trash cans with lids. They are hungry.


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