# Lost her ligaments?



## minifarmer (Mar 28, 2008)

I have seen a few of you refer to an expecting doe to 'loosing her ligaments' Just what does that mean? and how can you tell?


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## Caprice Acres (Mar 6, 2005)

Goats have two ligaments, one to either side of their tail base, connecting spine to pin bones. 

When they are within 12 hours of labor, these ligaments soften and are 'lost', to accomodate the kids' movement through the birth canal. Goats do NOT loose them for much longer than 12 hours unless there is a problem arranging the kids, simply because those ligaments are needed for structural support and they would not be able to function long with them completely lost. Most likely when the doe is not in labor and you think the ligaments are 'gone', the ligaments have simply shifted within the last week or so of kidding and become harder to find among fat deposits or longer hair - and so are thought to be 'lost' for a week or more before kidding. If you feel around a bit you'll find them. This shifting is gradual, however, and when they 'lose' thier ligaments they will look and feel very different overnight or within a few hours. 



















(In this picture you can see me reaching under the spine - the doe kidded a few hours later)


If the ligaments have truly been gone on a doe of mine for more than 12 hours, I go invasive to see what the holdup is. If the ligaments are gone she'll be in true labor, and the cervix will also dilate normally, so it will be possible to go check. In the past, a mispresented kid and/or a very large kid was blocking the canal and wasn't moving properly, so the doe never started pushing or couldn't push a lot (otherwise her uterus would probably rupture). 

With ligaments, I've been 100% accurate with kidding dates. Today was the first time I missed the first two of triplets, but I knew the doe was in labor.

Also, goats will 'drop' their babies, as ligaments soften in their belly, too. This allows for the kids to reposition to the birthing canal and position. The 'dropped' belly will look sunken in.


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## minifarmer (Mar 28, 2008)

Xcellent Caprice Acres. The pics are perfect. Now, how long after freshening will the doe's ligaments remain 'lost'? I have a doe, 12 weeks fresh and I can feel hers very well, and another, 14 days fresh, I can't feel hers, and another 6 days fresh that I can't feel at all. 
I also think the pregnant doe's are 'lost' as well, but she was a bit irritated with me out there in my bare feet trying to poke and prod all over her end section  I will try again later with boots on. haha


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## BackfourtyMI. (Sep 3, 2007)

I'm glad MyGoat keeps those pictures in her file, that's the best desription & shows what to look for too.

I think maybe you should post it in a stickey at the top of the goat forum, I wonder if it should go under pregnant doe & kid care? Maybe another??


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## Caprice Acres (Mar 6, 2005)

I think mods have to post the stickies. 

As for ligs, if your does have kidded they WILL have their ligaments. They only stay gone for the duration of labor. After the does pass the afterbirth, they'll start hardening up. My does all have their ligaments again a few hours after passing the afterbirths. Finding them is easy, but takes practice. As I said, if they're overweight or have lots of hair, they might be harder to find. I find they're placed slightly different on different does, according to conformation, as well. They're distinctive once you get the hang of it, though.


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## Wags (Jun 2, 2002)

mygoat said:


> I think mods have to post the stickies.
> 
> As for ligs, if your does have kidded they WILL have their ligaments. They only stay gone for the duration of labor. After the does pass the afterbirth, they'll start hardening up. My does all have their ligaments again a few hours after passing the afterbirths. Finding them is easy, but takes practice. As I said, if they're overweight or have lots of hair, they might be harder to find. I find they're placed slightly different on different does, according to conformation, as well. They're distinctive once you get the hang of it, though.


I wonder if that can vary among individual goats. Because women do the same thing and some tighten right back up after delivery and some like me, have issues (dislocated hips) for months before the ligs finally tighten back up.


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## thaiblue12 (Feb 14, 2007)

Good pictures mygoat.

I do have to say: Ligaments. Do. Not. Exist! 

I have tried and tried to find these dang things and have never been successful! I have taken to reading vaginas like tea leaves, lol. That plus, broken tails and stick up the butt walking has not failed me. 
I think they created this ligament myth to keep us busy searching for them just to add to the things we do during kidding season. 

I just want to find them *once*, and then I might be a believer


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## Caprice Acres (Mar 6, 2005)

Thai, I wish you were closer. They're REALLY easy to find and you're probably missing them simply because you're looking too hard.  I remember doing that when I first started... It helped when I felt my first doe in labor, to feel the difference between one that is and isn't in labor.


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## minifarmer (Mar 28, 2008)

Well, she had a baby this morning. You were right Mygoat, it was within 12 hours. Thanks for the education!


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## minifarmer (Mar 28, 2008)




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## Minelson (Oct 16, 2007)

And what a darling baby it is!!! Boy or girl? I love the color


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## minifarmer (Mar 28, 2008)

It's a boy. Daddy is a reg. Boer and mama is Nubian. He is HUGE! Larger than a 1 week old Nubian doe. I was joking that he came out with full horns!


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