# Can real estate be bought anonymously?



## Bellyman (Jul 6, 2013)

I've met one of the most obstinate real estate people I've ever come across. I really don't get it. 

My wife and I found a property that we like. It's listed with "X" Realty. We looked at it. We decided we liked it and wanted to make an offer. Submitted the offer through our buyer's agent. Got all of the i's dotted and the t's crossed and sent the offer electronically, as is customary here. And we waited. Paperwork never completed, no accept, no reject, no counter, nothing. 

Waited about a month and did the unthinkable and contacted the seller directly. No evidence that they ever received our offer, and still no electronic reply through the listing agent. Even resent the original offer asking for a completion, one way or another. Ignored. Got word that the seller wants to talk but only wants to talk through their agent. That's fair. And I said that it was only proper that we open the discussion to my agent as well.

Seller's agent does not like my agent and I don't think likes me or my wife, either. She absolutely refuses to even have a civil conversation.

I would take the matter to her superior but she happens to be a real estate broker with her own agency, in other words, she's the top right there.

My agent happens to have some position with the local Board of Realtors and, not of my doing, had a little chat with the seller's agent about ethics and professional kinds of stuff. Apparently, it went nowhere. 

I did notice a new advertising blitz for this property with the seller's agent just after all of this went down. Whatever. If someone finds it and wants it, God bless' em. It's been for sale for a very long time and this time of year, buyers are starting to dry up around these parts. 

But I did get to thinking about whether there might be another way to get this done. The seller wants to do something. We want to do something. I think we could meet at a price and terms that we could both agree on. But the seller's agent is being a total rectum supreme and will not even present an offer with our name on it. The seller is (apparently willingly) locked into a listing agreement until February. And I seriously doubt the place will be sold before then. (With a realtor like this, I can totally understand why it's been for sale for so long and why it's not likely to be selling anytime soon.)

Could the property be bought anonymously? As soon as she see's my name or my realtor's name, it's dead and never reaches the seller. Could this listing agent be forced out of the transaction somehow, legally? She's in the way and she knows it, deliberately blocking a willing buyer and a willing seller. Is there the potential to wait the situation out? (I don't know what kind of time periods may be in play before she's no longer entitled to her commission. We're in middle Tennessee if it matters.) 

Honestly, I don't have a problem with her getting a commission. I would even be willing to work with my own agent to step aside, likely having to pay her even though she would not be able to officially represent me. I'd consider that. But even a that, the seller's agent is just not willing to work with us.

I'm frustrated. I don't know if I should just let it go and figure it was the "one that got away" or whether I should keep looking for a way. I kinda know what the property is and it's kinda rough. But I see potential there to make it into something quite a bit more than what it is. 

Anyway, I wondered if any of you had any ideas. I'm just not coming up with any.

Thanks.


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## flboisseau (Apr 27, 2017)

If what you are describing is true, I am not doubting you, but there are always two sides to every story. Here is what I can tell you, first an agent that does not timely delivery an offer to the seller is not operating in the seller's best interest and could have their licenses revoked. If I was you, this is what I would do. 1) Report the seller's agent to the state license board and ask for an investigation. 2) Have your agent take the offer directly to seller, by-passing their agent. In the process have your agent let the seller know that they have sent the offer to the seller's agent with no response. At that point, the seller can do what they want.

I am kinda new at the game and in a different state, so discuss this with your agent first. They might be hoping to resolve this without getting the other agent even more upset with them, which is understandable. But you need to stress, that you want your offer presented to the seller as is your right.


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## CajunSunshine (Apr 24, 2007)

Hmmm...I know of similar situations with the same type of tactic, and it turned out that the seller's realtor eventually bought the properties for a bargain price, and then later flipped them for a much higher price.

I learned this while I was researching a potential realtor, and found online complaints of the exact song and dance you are describing. Luckily I never signed a contract with the crooked realtor.


.


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## Bellyman (Jul 6, 2013)

flboisseau said:


> If what you are describing is true, I am not doubting you, but there are always two sides to every story. Here is what I can tell you, first an agent that does not timely delivery an offer to the seller is not operating in the seller's best interest and could have their licenses revoked. If I was you, this is what I would do. 1) Report the seller's agent to the state license board and ask for an investigation. 2) Have your agent take the offer directly to seller, by-passing their agent. In the process have your agent let the seller know that they have sent the offer to the seller's agent with no response. At that point, the seller can do what they want.
> 
> I am kinda new at the game and in a different state, so discuss this with your agent first. They might be hoping to resolve this without getting the other agent even more upset with them, which is understandable. But you need to stress, that you want your offer presented to the seller as is your right.


Actually the original offer got submitted a second time with my realtor, the one on the local Board of Realtors, "requesting" that it be recognized, accepted, rejected, or countered. The seller's agent, so far, has not done so, and it's been about two weeks now. I suspect the local board isn't going to do squat about it.

It's not likely over yet. But I don't quite know where it will end. In a way, I don't want to make too many enemies as I would kinda like to live out my years peacefully in this general area. 

The owner knows we wanted the property. And they have our contact information. I wouldn't be surprised to hear from them at some point to see what happened. I don't know how aggressive I should be at this point in time as it's possible the seller's realtor may just shoot themselves in the foot without a bit of help from me.


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## Bellyman (Jul 6, 2013)

CajunSunshine said:


> Hmmm...I know of similar situations with the same type of tactic, and it turned out that the seller's realtor eventually bought the properties for a bargain price, and then later flipped them for a much higher price.
> 
> I learned this while I was researching a potential realtor, and found online complaints of the exact song and dance you are describing. Luckily I never signed a contract with the crooked realtor.
> 
> ...


I hadn't thought much about that before but you may be right. The place has dropped by nearly 25% over the past several years. It wouldn't take a whole lot more to give the realtor an opportunity to buy it herself and have some opportunity to do a nice flip and make maybe $75k, after all, she can buy it for what they were gonna get at a closing, which would be $11k less than what I'd have to pay. 

Kinda shady. But I wouldn't be surprised.


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## PrairieClover (Jun 19, 2015)

We had a contract submitted to us a few years ago that was an anonymous buyer. I had never heard of such a thing, but they were low-balling us and we had other offers so it didn't work out for them.
You can google search it. It is a requirement to name a buyer, but if you have a Principal work it for you, that is legal.
Or you form a land trust or an LLC. I'm not a lawyer and this is not legal advice. But I would seek the advice of an attorney.


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## GTX63 (Dec 13, 2016)

Depending how bad you want this property, just continue to go over the seller agent's head. You have given the sellers your contact information, now make sure, either yourself or thru your agent, that they get your offers. If this is how the seller's agent does business, then you aren't the only one who has had run ins with her, meaning you shouldn't worry about being too high on her list of enemies. I don't mind the wheels of progressive moving slowly, as long as they are moving. But if I discover nothing is being done after an extended period, then I take matters into my own hands.
Suffering fools and incompetence might cost them down the road, but it is costing you right now.


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## In The Woods (Apr 27, 2017)

That is crazy!

What I would do - and it will take some patience - is to talk to the property owner and explain the situation. Then tell them you would like to buy it for $xxx and buy it directly from them when their contract with the realtor expires. Maybe you would have to guarentee this with a simple agreement of some sort.

Looking at it from a different aspect - I am a believer in omens in situations like this. If you can't buy this because of some stupid road block like this maybe it isn't meant to be. Forget it and move on.


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## po boy (Jul 12, 2010)

Can the seller fire the agent??


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## po boy (Jul 12, 2010)

Or you and the seller visit her office


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## Wolf mom (Mar 8, 2005)

Yes - you, as the seller can fire your, the seller's agent. I would CYA and do it through the selling agent's broker so there's no blow back over the commission.

Ye, you can buy real estate anonymously. Through what's called a "straw man". Buyer to be named at COE - close of escrow.

It appears to me that a "date to reply by" was not put in the contract.....No reply is a reply.

If it were me and I really wanted that property, I'd look for a buyer's agent - a real estate agent that gets paid by the buyer. Most agent's get paid by the seller (commission is divided 1/2 buyer's agent, 1/2 seller's agent) and consequently have NO fiduciary relationship with the buyer.


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## Bellyman (Jul 6, 2013)

Wolf mom, the selling agent IS the broker, they're the same person. This person is a Realtor and owns her own office. 

Apparently no reply is a reply. It leaves the paperwork hanging and shows a definite lack of courtesy, but I suppose you're right, no reply is a reply. 

I DO have an agent, a buyer's agent. The selling agent does NOT like her, nor does the selling agent like us. She refuses to work through our agent and she's been rather rude to us personally. I suspect there may be a few things going on that I don't have knowledge of. But I do know that my agent is looking out for me, and my agent knows that we would likely buy the place if the seller's agent would get out of the way. 

Fat lady ain't sung yet... and if she did, it'll be on to the next opera.


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## Riverdale (Jan 20, 2008)

If all this is documented, I would consider going through the state's licensing board. If the realtor is not abiding by the code of ethics that the licensing board holds dear, perhaps they will pull the license. And if it is at the STATE level, the locals can't do squat about squelching it.

Also, if the broker is affiliated ( Century 21, Colwell-Banker, etc as a franchise) I would contact the franchiser. But then again, I can get ornery


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## Bellyman (Jul 6, 2013)

Riverdale said:


> If all this is documented, I would consider going through the state's licensing board. If the realtor is not abiding by the code of ethics that the licensing board holds dear, perhaps they will pull the license. And if it is at the STATE level, the locals can't do squat about squelching it.
> 
> Also, if the broker is affiliated ( Century 21, Colwell-Banker, etc as a franchise) I would contact the franchiser. But then again, I can get ornery


Nope, not affiliated with a big name. She's all her own. I think I'd have been down that road if she were with Century 21 or similar. She's the equivalent of a "good ol' boy" and I think she knows it. And for those who get along with her, she's wonderful. 

Not sure what's coming as far as the BOR or ethics stuff. Jury is still out on that one. I suspect it's not over but her torquing off one of the local BOR persons (my agent, who also happens to be a Broker), it kinda got bigger than me, and I like that. My agent is a lot more capable of fighting this battle than I am anyway and I'm perfectly contented to let her.


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## hiddensprings (Aug 6, 2009)

Contact the licensing authority in your state....Looks like you are in Tennessee. Contact the Tennessee Real Estate Commission. What they broker is doing is against the rules, ethics, etc.


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## iahomesteader (Nov 9, 2011)

File a complaint with Real Estate Commission ,TN if that's your state. Totally unethical and possible laws broken.


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## cfuhrer (Jun 11, 2013)

As Wolf Mom said, you can do a straw man purchase but it is my understanding that straw man purchases as well as cash purchases are getting harder and harder to do because: terrorism (at least that's the excuse being given).


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## Bellyman (Jul 6, 2013)

For now, the decision is to let the property go. The powers that be are aware of the situation and it's up to them what happens from here. I'm not privy to all of that. 

Yes, the whole terrorism thing has made a royal pain in the butt out of doing a whole lot of things that have nothing to do with anything illegal. 

Thanks everyone for the input.


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## Jenn (Nov 9, 2004)

Would think seller's agent wants the full commission not to split it with buyer's agent, but her meanness to you in person belies that. Funny. (Though maybe she knows she can't legally take all 6% given your contract with your agent.) I asked a visiting friend to ask to see a nearby property- he was happy as he went over it with the 4 wheeler he'd brought for his visit- to keep the owner from thinking 'she'll pay more, she's desperate for a property in her neighborhood!' Never got to making an offer though- too swampy at any price- but hadn't sorted out how to keep me hidden. Guess I'd've had my realtor friend tell me how, if at all possible.


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## Ryss (Nov 29, 2011)

What area of middle TN are you looking in?


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## Bellyman (Jul 6, 2013)

Ryss said:


> What area of middle TN are you looking in?


Mainly Cumberland and Fentress counties, or the closest edges of Morgan, Putnam, Overton or White. I think my favorite part of it is southern Fentress county.


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## [email protected] (Sep 16, 2009)

I only read part way through these posts.
If the agent is lowering the price, as I believe she is,
it won't do you any good to go with a different name or anonymously because she won't submit any offer from anybody. 
it is not so easy to fire the broker. and if you wait for the listing to run out, she will still get her commission.
all she has to do is produce your offer that she never submitted.
she sounds like a shyster, and I would go talk to the property owners in person so they don't lower the price any more.
in fact, they should demand that the realtor put the price back up to where they started, 
they can leave it there and people can make offers of lesser $$$'s . no need to lower the price..
IMHO.


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## Bellyman (Jul 6, 2013)

This is not over. The seller's agent is giving the appearance of acting, somewhat under duress, but may actually be being held accountable, by persons bigger than me. The latest word is that the seller wants a few days to give us a reply (I'm hearing this 3rd hand). It wasn't a "hell no", or even a "no", it was a "we need a few days". We also hear that one of the sellers is dealing with health issues and the timing is not so good. (Don't know how much accuracy there may be in that. We're willing to give them a few days, either way.) So, like I said earlier, the fat lady ain't sung yet. Not getting my hopes up. But recognizing, that there may still be a way to salvage the transaction.


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## FarmerKat (Jul 3, 2014)

I was just curious if there was an update ...


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## Bellyman (Jul 6, 2013)

The update... at least as it stands today...

The seller and the sellers agent have completely severed ties with us and our agent. They do not wish to communicate or negotiate. (And it's not like we're talking about lowball offers, the last offer was $30k over figures I've been given as "fair market value" by three different local sources and is not far off of asking price.) It continues to sit on the market. 

We have walked away for now and are about to close on another place. The place we're buying is not what we had in mind but we see potential to do some good things to the place and add quite a bit of value to it by fixing things that were not well thought out when built 12 years ago. It would not surprise me to see us fix up the place we're buying and have another crack at the place that's been such a headache several years from now. It's possible it could be part of an estate by then, or the situation could change based upon the age of the owners.

Basically, we finally let it go. The fact that it's nearing 4 years on the market in a desirable area is telling. (The place we're buying is about 5 miles from it.)

That's about all I can say right now. Whether we'll have opportunity at some point in the future, I can't say. I haven't ruled out the possibility.


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## FarmerKat (Jul 3, 2014)

Thanks for the update. I hope all goes smoothly with the purchase of the place you chose. 

I think it is very telling to have a place sit on the market for 4 years. Maybe the sellers really don't want to sell but have to pretend they are selling for some other reason? 

There was a place we looked at few years ago (2013) but was way over priced. They were asking close to $300K. It was not worth that. We discussed an offer around $220K but the listing agent said he would not even present it to the seller as it was "insulting". So we never put the offer on paper and walked away. The seller switched agents, then went back to the original agent and I noticed it sold earlier this year (yes, that's 4 years later) for $215K.


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## Michael W. Smith (Jun 2, 2002)

FarmerKat said:


> I think it is very telling to have a place sit on the market for 4 years. Maybe the sellers really don't want to sell but have to pretend they are selling for some other reason?
> 
> There was a place we looked at few years ago (2013) but was way over priced. They were asking close to $300K. It was not worth that. We discussed an offer around $220K but the listing agent said he would not even present it to the seller as it was "insulting". So we never put the offer on paper and walked away. The seller switched agents, then went back to the original agent and I noticed it sold earlier this year (yes, that's 4 years later) for $215K.


I've seen places "For Sale" that have stayed on the market for years. I know of one place that has been on the market for probably close to 4 years. The owners moved to another State after retiring but come back from time to time since one of their children lives in the area. They have gotten offers on the house, but keep saying "The offers are too low." These people have the money - so it really doesn't matter if they sell it or not.

If a person is motivated to sell, they will. If not, they won't sell for any price - because it's "too low". Time has a way of wearing on a person. If the person has money - chances are it really doesn't matter if they sell the place or not. They will continue to pay property taxes and keep heat and utilities hooked up, and the expenses of that property don't even put a strain at all on finances.

But if someone starts to get tired of the taxes, utilities, and keeping the lawn mowed or snow shoveled after a few years, they start to think "I would be better off to sell this property rather than to keep having expenses in maintaining it as well as the annual property taxes." When they start adding up the annual expenses - taxes, utilities, maintenance, etc. they can see how lowering the price and just "getting rid of it" is a better option rather than "holding out" for the selling price they think it's worth.

A change of the owner's health, or the death of an owner can also easily motivate the other owner (or the heirs) to get rid of the property as well.

Bellyman, you could be very right that in a few years, you could have another opportunity at that property. In the meantime, I hope the property you have found to buy turns into a purchase for you. Some hard work and remodeling can easily increase the value of the property. Good luck and please keep us updated.


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## AmericanStand (Jul 29, 2014)

FarmerKat said:


> the listing agent said he would not even present it to the seller as it was "insulting". So we never put the offer on paper and walked away. The seller switched agents, then went back to the original agent and I noticed it sold earlier this year (yes, that's 4 years later) for $215K.


Here in Illinois that’s a huge no no and will likely result in loss of license for-the agent and possibly the broker.


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## melli (May 7, 2016)

Bellyman said:


> The update... at least as it stands today...
> 
> The seller and the sellers agent have completely severed ties with us and our agent. They do not wish to communicate or negotiate. (And it's not like we're talking about lowball offers, the last offer was $30k over figures I've been given as "fair market value" by three different local sources and is not far off of asking price.) It continues to sit on the market.
> 
> ...


Curious if the original place has sold? And price....
The whole story you told sounds surreal...something is afoot. I'd think agents have a duty to apprise owners of all offers, especially written offers. 
Not sure how much power an agent has over a listing. For instance, if you bought place directly from owner, could sale be consummated. The agent would have to take you to court for loss of commission. 
We used to have shenanigans where buyer and seller agent could be the same...outlawed now. 

Aside: I actually had a real estate agent scream at me (like high pitched wail) for suggesting she take a hit on a commission. I felt the offer presented was too low, and the only way I'd take it, is if she took a hit. I wasn't saying she had to take less commission, but I said the only way I'll sell at that price is if she took a haircut. 
I was willing to wait for a better offer (heck, it was a Vancouver condo and those things sell - we were only at 30 day mark). 
She really went ballistic. Well, next day, she was calmer, and agreed to deal. Rather funny, all that drama, as she took me out for supper once deal went through....go figure...lol. Being an agent in Vancouver is a license to print money.


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## Michael W. Smith (Jun 2, 2002)

Bellyman said:


> The update... at least as it stands today...
> 
> The seller and the sellers agent have completely severed ties with us and our agent. They do not wish to communicate or negotiate. (And it's not like we're talking about lowball offers, the last offer was $30k over figures I've been given as "fair market value" by three different local sources and is not far off of asking price.) It continues to sit on the market.


It's always possible the seller or seller's agent comes back to you after their property continues to sit without selling.

I can have a mean streak in me when such things happen - so if they would come back to me - I might be very tempted to tell them "Go pound sand."


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## AmericanStand (Jul 29, 2014)

Michael W. Smith said:


> It's always possible the seller or seller's agent comes back to you after their property continues to sit without selling.
> 
> I can have a mean streak in me when such things happen - so if they would come back to me - I might be very tempted to tell them "Go pound sand."


I prefer to tell them " OH yeah I found out about that place, I really couldn't go over about 1/3 of what I offered


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## Bellyman (Jul 6, 2013)

We bought another place in November. Not really keeping close tabs on the place we were wanting but know enough to know that it's still for sale, same agent. They did raise the price about $30k. And it continues to sit. Nothing updated that I can tell, only they did a little mowing around the place. It's coming up on its fifth year on the market. We drive by the place every so often on our way to other places.

I still like the place and haven't ruled out the idea that some year in the future, we could talk about it. I think it has potential to be a really nice homestead. But for now, I'll spend my time and energy on making the place we have as nice as I can. We may fix up and sell. Or we may fix up and stay put. Either way, I'm building equity and have no urgency whatsoever when it comes to the property I had wanted. They can sit on it for the next 20 years if they want to, I really don't care. Actually, they have my phone number if they ever want to talk. I won't be waiting up for that phone call.


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## jr23 (Sep 3, 2013)

In The Woods said:


> That is crazy!
> 
> What I would do - and it will take some patience - is to talk to the property owner and explain the situation. Then tell them you would like to buy it for $xxx and buy it directly from them when their contract with the realtor expires. Maybe you would have to guarentee this with a simple agreement of some sort.
> 
> Looking at it from a different aspect - I am a believer in omens in situations like this. If you can't buy this because of some stupid road block like this maybe it isn't meant to be. Forget it and move on.


advise the seller he will most likely owe the bad agent commission since she was involved initially showing you the property but the seller also has grounds for a complaint if the agent failed to present the owner with a proper offer so she did not earn the commission. imo both seller and buyer should both file complaints to board and state license body


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## Michael Brown (May 3, 2018)

True!


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## RNinTN (May 31, 2018)

Bellyman said:


> I've met one of the most obstinate real estate people I've ever come across. I really don't get it.
> 
> My wife and I found a property that we like. It's listed with "X" Realty. We looked at it. We decided we liked it and wanted to make an offer. Submitted the offer through our buyer's agent. Got all of the i's dotted and the t's crossed and sent the offer electronically, as is customary here. And we waited. Paperwork never completed, no accept, no reject, no counter, nothing.
> 
> ...


I personally didnt read all the replies so if this is redundant please forgive...

YES is your answer... the land trust document is very easy to generate and a declaration of trust and trustee. This is an official entity and can be recognized as a person for the purpose of securing real estate with privacy as well as the trustee can execute the offer and the closing. Name the trust something other than your names and name a trusted person as trustee with a revocable contract and you list yourself as the beneficiaries. 
This is complete privacy. But it does sound like you will need to ask the seller to cancel her contract if this broker is actually blocking sales. 
You can either have the trustee take the offer directly to the seller or you can have them attempt to go through the broker. 
Either way your names never come up and all the trustee says is "I am not permitted to disclose the beneficiary information."
No one but a judge can pierce the veil of a trust... and its tough to do anyway. 
Good luck! And IF this one doesnt work out I have a couple pieces of property for sale up in the mountains of middle to east TN myself! (Private message me if you want to see those properties.)


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## MoonRiver (Sep 2, 2007)

I would file a complaint with local Board of Realtors, the State Board of Realtors, and whoever the state agency is that oversees the licensing of real estate agents. This agent needs to have her license suspended. Yours to if she/he is allowing this to go on. If I was the seller, I would fire her, file complaints, and sue for damages.


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## altair (Jul 23, 2011)

Yes, I was just going to reply that I work as an Assistant Town Clerk and record all manner of deeds et al. Trusts are very possible as are LLCs/LLPs/etc that can come in any name you want them too. Even numerals.



RNinTN said:


> I personally didnt read all the replies so if this is redundant please forgive...
> 
> YES is your answer... the land trust document is very easy to generate and a declaration of trust and trustee. This is an official entity and can be recognized as a person for the purpose of securing real estate with privacy as well as the trustee can execute the offer and the closing. Name the trust something other than your names and name a trusted person as trustee with a revocable contract and you list yourself as the beneficiaries.
> This is complete privacy. But it does sound like you will need to ask the seller to cancel her contract if this broker is actually blocking sales.
> ...


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## AmericanStand (Jul 29, 2014)

To answer the title ,
I created bearer deeds for some properties a few years back.
No one has had any problems with them yet.
Remember the purpose of a deed is to define what is being given and who will defend it so it really only needs the name of who it is from on it.
As the bearer deeds were given up new deeds from the original grantee were made up.


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