# Poor little calf



## thequeensblessing (Mar 30, 2003)

Anyone have any experience with anything like this before? We bought an angus calf at the sale barn. He was a little guy, obviously a couple of weeks old, no umbillical cord or anything, no sign of scours, and very alert and active.
Got him home, gave him electrolites in water from a bottle and put him in a stall with clean water, hay, and calf starter. That night, I took him a quart of milk replacer and fed it to him from a bottle. He at hay and grain, not a lot, but several mouthfuls of each. 
Fast forward one week. since that first day, he has done nothing but scour. I gave him a sustain III bolus and took him off milk when it first started to happen, also put him back on electrolites in water. He started to eat more hay and grain, and his poop started to look good, but of course, he wasn't eating enough to sustain himself. He was getting a bit thin. I slowly reintroduced the milk replacer, in very diluted quantities. Again, full blown scours. I took him off the MR and tried him on raw cows milk from our jersey. His poop came out looking like it went in and smelling like sour milk. 
So, we had the vet come out yesterday. He looked the calf over and asked some questions. He says he suspects that the calf was a twin, that the mother just couldn't take care of both calves and so the farmer sent him to the sale barn still eating a little grain and hay. The vet further said that because he was digesting solid food, the groove has disappeared and he was no longer able to digest milk. It was simply putrifying in his gut and coming out much as it went in. So, I have a bottle baby who can't drink milk. :help:
The vet has me feeding him 1 tbsp of plain, live culture yogurt, twice a day, and hand feeding him as much hay, grass, and grain as he can take a day. The vet said its his only hope of making it. He isn't dehydrated, but he's starving to death while drinking 3 quarts of raw cows milk a day. 
Any other suggestions or advice?


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## deaconjim (Oct 31, 2005)

Good luck with him. Hope he makes it.


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## tinknal (May 21, 2004)

I would skip the grass/hay for now, it just isn't nutritionally dense enough to justify taking that much space in that tiny rumen. I would get the absolute best calf feed you can, like Calf Manna, or a good quality sweet feed. Maybe try mixing a small amount of dry milk replacer in. 

This may sound strange, but I would consider vaccinating him for e-coli, and then diluting a small amount of poop from a calf that is still on milk in some water and get it into him. That might jump start the rumen flora needed to digest milk.


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## tinknal (May 21, 2004)

You might also try getting some eggs into him. Maybe scrambled and mixed with the grain.


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## thequeensblessing (Mar 30, 2003)

Eggs huh? I'll try it! I'll try anything at this point.


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## Ozarkquilter46 (Jun 5, 2002)

We would always add live cultured yogurt to the replacer. A couple heaping tablespoons full and that seemed to help. My girlfriend would always bring the sick ones home from the auction no one would buy and get them for free then we would doctor them back to health. Yogurt was her cure all and it sure did seem to help them


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## thequeensblessing (Mar 30, 2003)

The vet actually had me take him off all milk products entirely, except for the yogurt. He said it would do no good to feed any milk, as the milk is no longer making it to the abomasum, because the esophogeal groove has dissappeared. He said the milk is going straight to the rumen instead of the abomasum and then it's putrifying. He said it's the same affect as giving a full grown cow milk. They can't digest it any longer. He called it rumen acidosis or some such thing. So, according to the vet, I'm not to give him any milk at all. All of you with more experience, do you think this is right? I guess the vet should know, eh?
Oh, and I gave him an egg, which he polished off quickly, so I feel a little better about that. How often should I give him an egg? Daily? More than once daily?


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## topside1 (Sep 23, 2005)

I'll agree with eggs...raw eggs mixed in with electrolytes. The shake the bottle up and the eggs will mix. I used to feed eggs regularly just because I had so many. Healthy way to get rid of them...Topside


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## topside1 (Sep 23, 2005)

If you get his poop back to normal,,,then start feeding him milk,,no more than 2 pints in the am. and 2 in the pm. May not sound like much, but that's my advice.


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## robinthegeek (Nov 18, 2004)

I don't have any advice, but I hope he makes it! Your post led me to spend all morning reading articles on rumen development in calves, since I have my own little one here now.

Here is an article on rumen acidosis. 

http://www.calfnotes.com/pdffiles/CN113.pdf

Actually there are a lot of articles on www.calfnotes.com


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## tinknal (May 21, 2004)

thequeensblessing said:


> Oh, and I gave him an egg, which he polished off quickly, so I feel a little better about that. How often should I give him an egg? Daily? More than once daily?


I would start with one per feeding and slowly work up, watching his reaction to them. If you have plenty of eggs I would give him all he can handle. Very high complex proteins and 100% digestible (for humans anyway).


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## arabian knight (Dec 19, 2005)

I also agree with a Raw Egg. But Shell and ALL. Just crush it into his mouth, yes shell and all. Works great.


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## Callieslamb (Feb 27, 2007)

I have never ever heard of this. My calves eat solid foods and drink milk at the same time...what's the difference in your situation? I have a 3 month old steer that I weaned, then decided to put back on milk. He's doing fine. I don't get the difference.


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## bruce2288 (Jul 10, 2009)

I would NOT try to reintroduce milk again. You have seen what the affect is. Since the calf is eating dry feed as stated, I agree calf mana and some very good quality hay.


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## arabian knight (Dec 19, 2005)

I most always deal with scours with the Jersey calves I have raised up.
A week old and going with 2 QT's of milk replacing is pretty dern rich for the real small ones.
BUT this one I am just started never has even had a loose stool much less scours. And I have not done anything different other then maybe a little less of milk replacer then what the directions called out.


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## topside1 (Sep 23, 2005)

If the calf has this big of a problem it would be dead by now...The cord is dried up and dropped off, I'm guessing it's 3-4 weeks old. It's been absorbing milk up till now or it would be dead. Electrolytes with raw egg mixture, pro-biotic powder, crushed vit C, some pepto bismal, and feed until the poop become normal. Then I'd reintroduce milk products very, very slowly. Of course I'm not there, the groove is gone? Oh well I'm not a Vet...This is the last of my free advice...Good luck.


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## ArmyDoc (May 13, 2007)

Try cooking cracked grain - or even oatmeal (and letting it cool) and giving him that. Cooking it will increase the digestability of the grains and their absorption, which might help him get more calories out of what he's eating.


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## Allen W (Aug 2, 2008)

Sounds like you may have picked up a calf that has been roughing it on his own for awhile, may be a little older then you think. I agree with feeding the calf manna, I've also used a product from Evergreen Feeds called Shur-Blume that I liked better then the calf manna.


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## springvalley (Jun 23, 2009)

Ok, here is my cure all for babies, Alot of good advice in here , some I don`t know about. Calves are made to drink milk, and I don`t know about the groove or not. This works all the time for me, the raw eggs is GREAT, the yolk in the egg is like colostrum in milk. Pitch that MR out the door, don`t know why you bought it if you had your own milk anyway. I would try a bit of colostrum if you had some, but only a pint at a time, raw milk if you can`t find colostrum. A raw egg or two each feeding, and final thing, a envelope of KNOX Jello in with each feeding for a day or two. The knox jello firms up the bowels, and some yogurt to help with the bacteria in the gut. This never fails for me, knock on wood, I have never lost a calf to scours. Most people kill a jersey calf with kindness by feeding them to much, so don`t over feed your calf. Also make sure you have some good grass hay and water for him. Tink and Top are my buddies, and they feed as many calves as I have, so they know their stuff also. Tink glad you said the poop remedy so I didn`t have to. Keep us updated on pooor little calf. > Thanks Marc


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## springvalley (Jun 23, 2009)

As far as your Vet goes, they don`t know it all, some do but unless they have been raised up on a family farm or close to it they may have no idea of the good old fashioned home remedies, most only know what the book tells them. I always wanted to be a Vet. but the idea of 8 more years of school solved that problem. Just think of the knowledge that has gone to the grave with the old timers, they were a wealth of information. > Thanks Marc


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## topside1 (Sep 23, 2005)

Thanks Marc... Whenever I use a homemade electrolyte I add sure-gel type pectin to the mix, plus lots of crushed Vit c....3000mg....I know all about the groove, it falls into place and directs the milk into the proper chamber of the stomach. Don't see how the calf could loose it. When bottle feeding the nipple must be at belt level or lower. Any higher and the neck does not lock and thus milk ends up in the rumen and bacteria begins to grow.....Scours is next. Bottle nipple must be udder high, it's the natural position needed for success. This calf seems very salvageable to me. Ever think that the milk replacer is the problem? Marc is right on with everything he wrote....


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## thequeensblessing (Mar 30, 2003)

Thanks everyone. I'm trying to follow as many of your ideas as I can. I'm learning a lot!
Let me clarify a couple of things that I obviously didn't make very clear in my original post. We got the calf (an angus, not a jersey btw) at about a week or two of age, judging by the fact that he was already eating a little hay and grain, drinking water from a bucket and had no umbillical cord left attached. Of course, as was mentioned, he certainly could be older and had been struggling on his own and just looks younger because of his condition. That's a real possibility. Also, we fed him MR because it's all we had at the time. I just bought the Jersey milk cow a week after we brought the little calf home.
I appreciate everyone's suggestions. I've never dealt with this situation before, so I was/am clueless. (Ok, I'm learning quickly!) I've had calves scour before, sure, but we usually treat it with "Deliver", a calf scours product that contains psyllium seed husks that cause all fluids to gel in the intestines and cuts down on dehydration. That works great all by itself with viral scours and stress scours. A couple of days on electrolytes and "Deliver" usually clears it up. Then, if it's bacterial in nature, we use "Sustain III" boluses. They have a timed release over 72 hours, so you only need one bolus. I've never dealt with a situation like this. 
I only fed him 1 quart of MR in the morning, and 1 quart at night. That's what we usually feed a jersey calf, so we figured it would be about right for an angus calf. Obviously not...
Then, we even let him suckle the jersey cow (she'll let anything suckle her) because we thought it would be more natural for him. We did this for 3 days. The sour-smelling milk just ran out of his back end. That's when we called the vet in. 
So, as of today, he's taken a cooked egg (I had to hand feed it to him) and I managed to get him to drink a quart of electrolytes with a raw egg mixed into it from a bottle, and his yogurt. He has sipped on his water from the bucket too. Tonight, I noticed that he's cleaned up all his hay and about 1/2 of his grain. I'm feeding him calf starter, free choice. I hope that's ok?
The vet gave me a "kaopectate bolus", as he called it, and it's stopped the scouring. The calf is still weak but he's standing and nibbling. I only hope he eats enough to keep himself going. 
I'd never heard of this rumen-drinker stuff (rumen acidosis). From what I've read, some calves have a genetic predisposition toward it? I just don't know. I don't understand it all, but I've got it to deal with. I wouldn't have believed it if I hadn't seen it for myself. I simply did everything for him that I'd ever done for any calf with scours, but nothing at all worked. I guess it's how we learn, eh? I'm just glad all you cow-people are here for me to learn from. Thank you all!


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## thequeensblessing (Mar 30, 2003)

Oh, and I like the idea of the pectin or gelatin in the liquid. I will have to try that. It's got to be cheaper than "Deliver". Probably works just as well too.
Also, if I have calf rennet on hand, would some of that hurt him?


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## Madsaw (Feb 26, 2008)

Lots of good ideas here. WHen I used eggs on calves I would mix them either with milk or electrolytes. Also I would add some corn syurp for a extra boost. Top Sides addvice is great.
Also I noticed you said you gave the calf just one Sustain III. The calf size boluses are one per 50 lbs. Most calves even if they are small at about 3-4 weeks should have atleast 2 boluses and maybe atleast a half of a third. From the take I get of how the calf has been. I would have used the SIII's along with a good antibiotic for pneumonia. Its a 2 sided appoarch that usally clears up any problems that occur with a scouring calf. Alot of times folks thinks a calf is just scouring but it also has a low grade infection setting into. When you relize what is going on the calf is in real tough shape.

What color is the calf's scours? Also does it look pot bellied?
Bob


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## thequeensblessing (Mar 30, 2003)

Madsaw said:


> Lots of good ideas here. WHen I used eggs on calves I would mix them either with milk or electrolytes. Also I would add some corn syurp for a extra boost. Top Sides addvice is great.
> Also I noticed you said you gave the calf just one Sustain III. The calf size boluses are one per 50 lbs. Most calves even if they are small at about 3-4 weeks should have atleast 2 boluses and maybe atleast a half of a third. From the take I get of how the calf has been. I would have used the SIII's along with a good antibiotic for pneumonia. Its a 2 sided appoarch that usally clears up any problems that occur with a scouring calf. Alot of times folks thinks a calf is just scouring but it also has a low grade infection setting into. When you relize what is going on the calf is in real tough shape.
> 
> What color is the calf's scours? Also does it look pot bellied?
> Bob


Hi Bob. The calf scours were like sour milk, very white, opaque, and watery. Now, they are like whitish-gray clay, but I'm sure that's due to the kaopectate bolus the doc gave him. He isn't pot bellied. He's skin and bones basically.


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## thequeensblessing (Mar 30, 2003)

Just wanted to update everyone on this little angus calf. I followed most everyone's advice, especially the eggs and calf starter. There were a couple of "iffy" days where we didn't know if would make it or not, but after feeding him 4 eggs a day for two days, the difference in him was amazing! He started nibbling more grain on his own and drinking water regularly. Today, he's eating a flake of hay a day, and about a pint and a half of grain a day. He has more energy, a better looking coat, and his eyes are bright, and I can truly see the light at the end of the tunnel for him. He's looking really good, so I wanted to be sure and tell you all THANK YOU!!


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## nduetime (Dec 15, 2005)

thequeensblessing said:


> Today, he's eating a flake of hay a day, and about a pint and a half of grain a day. He has more energy, a better looking coat, and his eyes are bright, and I can truly see the light at the end of the tunnel for him.
> 
> 
> > :dance::clap: I am so glad for you and the little guy. great job!


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## Cheribelle (Jul 23, 2007)

Great job! I was afraid maybe he didn't get his colostrum.... 
I have lost a few for no other reason than that. So frustrating.


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