# mothers day at Walmart



## manfred (Dec 21, 2005)

I went to Walmart early friday morning as I sometimes do on the way to pick up the wife from work. 130 am.
The place is usually deserted, sometimes have to hunt for a cashier. 
This time the place was PACKED. Inside and out. Isles filled with fat women with their carts overflowing, cashiers busy ,busy.
When I got to the cashier I asked "whaT GIVES/ wHY SO BUSY TONIGHT?
She informed me that it was the morning food stamps came out. I asked " why dont they wait until tomorrow, why come in the middle of the night."
She motioned to the woman next in line and said"why dont you ask her".
Well, I asked her "free food and everybody is hungry, at least I am."
When I got outside I noticed the only old car there was mine.
I think mostly all had money but didnt want to spend THEIR money on food when free food is on the way.


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## suzyhomemaker09 (Sep 24, 2004)

.....


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## 7thswan (Nov 18, 2008)

Ok I give, do they have free food at Walmart?


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## farmergirl (Aug 2, 2005)

Or maybe they have NO money for food because of the big car payments, rent, healthcare, you name it. 
Not suprising that many were overweight, as eating heavily processed foods (read: CHEAP) often leads to disease and weight gain. 
Imagine being so hungry for food that you rushed out to the store in the middle of the night as soon as you had the means to procure it. People with money to spare don't do that.


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## Lizza (Nov 30, 2005)

I'm not sure of your conclusions, from your description of women going out in the middle of the night to buy food, my guess is that they had literally run out of food and had been waiting for the first possible moment to buy food. Not sure this leads to saying that we don't need food stamps in this country, which I am assuming is your point, since this kind of says to me that their are plenty of people hungry enough to leave home in the middle of night.


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## JanS (Jul 28, 2002)

I think his point is that fat women and people with nice cars don't need food stamps. He left out the part about the cars all being Cadillacs and the women all wearing expensive weaves and manicures and carrying designer purses. Funny, most people point out that the carts were all full of steak, lobster, pop and Doritos, he must not be very observant.


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## 7thswan (Nov 18, 2008)

Oh now I get it, they think food stamps give them free food. That's funny.


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## manfred (Dec 21, 2005)

I wasnt trying to make conclusions. Although now I might make one. These people have come to expect this benefit and make for difficult times if it ever stopped. 
There are many people suffering and many fed children that wouldnt be otherwise.
My comment about the fat women was out of line. I apologize.


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## Ardie/WI (May 10, 2002)

JanS said:


> I think his point is that fat women and people with nice cars don't need food stamps. He left out the part about the cars all being Cadillacs and the women all wearing expensive weaves and manicures and carrying designer purses. Funny, most people point out that the carts were all full of steak, lobster, pop and Doritos, he must not be very observant.


Very good post! :cute:


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## pastelsummer (Jul 21, 2010)

EXCUSE ME!!!!!! the free food comment by the lady was wrong but dont you dare judge me because i am on foodstamps!!! I will tell you that some months the SECOND foodstamps are in i am at the store because my cupboards are empty and i STILL supplement with my own money PLUS my husband works! and in addition to that blatant ingnorant statement it just shows how much of a jerk you are!


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## nc_mtn (Nov 24, 2007)

"Nobody but a beggar chooses to depend chiefly upon the benevolence of his fellow-citizens."
Adam Smith *1776*


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## Callieslamb (Feb 27, 2007)

I used to go shopping at night so I didn't have to take my 5 kids.....enough said. Pretty petty judgements being made here.


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## JanS (Jul 28, 2002)

Ardie/WI said:


> Very good post! :cute:


Thanks but then manfred got all nice and took the fun out of it.


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## jen74145 (Oct 31, 2006)

Callieslamb said:


> I used to go shopping at night so I didn't have to take my 5 kids.....enough said. Pretty petty judgements being made here.


LOL... yes, the midnight spree with no little anyones to wrangle! Five kids to a grocery store... bah. I'd be like the panicked mother hen in DS's favorite story, forever counting her chicks, being so distracted I'd probably leave with half of what I came in for and eight things I didn't. 

RE: food stamps. Dang. Don't judge. You don't know those women.


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## halfpint (Jan 24, 2005)

I don't like to grocery shop in the first of the month. The reason is the stores are always crowded here as many people get their paychecks on either the last day of the month or first day of the month, and are low on food so go shopping as soon as they get their money. So food stamps are not the only reason that you saw a rush on this day. Everyone I know who has worked in groceries says they sell significantly more on the first 2-3 days of the month than any other period.
Dawn


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## CarolynRenee (Jan 30, 2008)

There are many, many people taking advatage of this system. And there are many, many people who live hand to mouth without getting any government assistance....yet still have to pay for OTHER people's families while theirs go without. Honestly, can you really blame anyone for getting upset? 

If you receive welfare, maybe you need to feel a bit more sympathy for those who's paychecks are garnished in order for you to receive those benefits.

And as for the late night (or early morning) shopping spree......I'd do it in a heartbeat again if I could (DD18months is my late-night pass time now). Less crowds (well, not on all days as I'm finding out from here), less stress & less traffic going to / from the store.


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## arabian knight (Dec 19, 2005)

That should be no surprise at all, look at the date. The beginning of the Month....
The 2nd of Oct. 
Yesterday many received their SS Checks and or other Governmental checks.~! No mystery at all as to why WM was packed. And another things is yesterday was Friday many workers get paid on that day. LOL


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## jjgrappler (Jul 26, 2010)

I have to agree with this post maybe it was worded that wrong way, but I work 3 jobs and I take no assistance from the government. I think assistance is needed and a good thing for some people but the people that think they're entitled to it is what makes most people mad. I understand these are rough times but if you don't at least try and help yourself what do you expect. Like stated I work 3 jobs to pay my way and other people's way who seem to have excuses why they can't work. Can you honestly blame people for being upset at what they view as vampires and leeches to the system and more importantly their own paychecks?


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## farmergirl (Aug 2, 2005)

I have found that Late Thursday night in the third or fourth week of the month is the absolute best time to shop at Walmart. Hardly any cars in the parking lot, no waiting in line. Not sure what it is about Thursday....maybe it's just ANY day in the last two weeks of the month. But as a person who has little patience for waiting in supermarket lines, I appreciate the lack of customers on those nights.


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## JuliaAnn (Dec 7, 2004)

Quote "If you receive welfare, maybe you need to feel a bit more sympathy for those who's paychecks are garnished in order for you to receive those benefits.""

POTDA.

Thank you. Many, many times in the past we have lived hand to mouth, and yet chose to find options other than public assistance to obtain food. This was when we were both working jobs but were simply consumed by medical bills when my dh nearly died from a work injury, and after our son died. In a fit of pure desperation, I called the county once, and was told in a screening phone interview that we 'made too much to qualify". So, we got to pay for services we had no access to. However, the various levels of government did not stop withholding taxes and SS from our paychecks. It would be nice if people receiving assistance did not react so defensively, because it IS a very valid point that others who are having terrible finanacial problems still pay via withholidng SS etc to pay for public assistance, often while not qualifying for assistance themselves. 

Sorry if this offends anyone, but it's the truth.


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## arabian knight (Dec 19, 2005)

I go to WM sometimes in the middle of the month as that is when I get my SS Check. As the new rules for receiving SS checks is now figured on what week of the month your birthday is on.


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## jjgrappler (Jul 26, 2010)

JuliaAnn said:


> Quote "If you receive welfare, maybe you need to feel a bit more sympathy for those who's paychecks are garnished in order for you to receive those benefits.""
> 
> POTDA.
> 
> ...


'

I couldn't agree with you more. I have been out on my own since I was around 19 and decided I wanted to go back to college part time while working full-time. They government would not even give me any assistance because my parent's made too much, but here's the kicker they were seperated and weren't a couple and plus I wasn't ven living with them. I am sorry if this offends anyone but if you can't afford a family or children don't have them. It's not my responsibility to take care of your family in addition to my own. The american dream isn't just given to you, you have to go out get your hands dirty and earn it. I'm only 24 but I have been on my own struggling and I feel like i'm a better person for it. Now what's the excuse for anybody else not doing the same?


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## MELOC (Sep 26, 2005)

"never look a gift horse in the mouth"

"the early bird gets the worm"

"if you snooze, you lose"

"the squeaky wheel get's the grease"


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## DENALI (Mar 25, 2008)

pastelsummer said:


> EXCUSE ME!!!!!! the free food comment by the lady was wrong but dont you dare judge me because i am on foodstamps!!! I will tell you that some months the SECOND foodstamps are in i am at the store because my cupboards are empty and i STILL supplement with my own money PLUS my husband works! and in addition to that blatant ingnorant statement it just shows how much of a jerk you are!



I have a question for you, but first a quote from your own signature: 

"And tons of fur babies" 

If you cant afford to feed yourself and you require my assistance to fill your cupboards, how are you able to feed "tons of fur babies"?


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## jen74145 (Oct 31, 2006)

You know... here's the thing. Any of us could find ourselves/the family breadwinner unemployed. Or a sudden accident could mean no income for some time. 

In my DH's hometown he has friends who bust their tails like you would not believe. They are frugal. The area is just so economically depressed that even my SMIL, with decades of nursing experience, and who is also a very hard, dedicated worker, makes a pittance. Fifty years ago, a man who married and had a family made more because he was spporting more people. No longer is this the case, and affordable daycares (where I live at least) are horrible. I'd rather pay a bit and keep kids out of those hellholes, thank you. 

I'm blessed by the job DH has now, and his future options. Yes, he worked hard through school and is dependable and conscientious in his work. So did alot of other people, who now are out of work. This attitude of "Be grateful, you thieves!" makes me SICK. What, you want somebody on foodstamps to kiss your feet?

Our tax dollars are wasted on far less worthy causes than feeding children.


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## Fat Charlie (Sep 9, 2010)

I'm quite happy to have a paycheck to get taxes taken out of. It sure beats not having one and having to be on the receiving end of those deductions.


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## Laura Zone 5 (Jan 13, 2010)

jjgrappler said:


> '
> 
> I couldn't agree with you more. I have been out on my own since I was around 19 and decided I wanted to go back to college part time while working full-time. They government would not even give me any assistance because my parent's made too much, but here's the kicker they were seperated and weren't a couple and plus I wasn't ven living with them. I am sorry if this offends anyone but if you can't afford a family or children don't have them. It's not my responsibility to take care of your family in addition to my own. The american dream isn't just given to you, you have to go out get your hands dirty and earn it. I'm only 24 but* I have been on my own struggling and I feel like i'm a better person for it.* Now what's the excuse for anybody else not doing the same?


Not better......but stronger!:goodjob:
You have clarity of mind, strength in work ethic, and self-dignity.
I am NOT against a 'leg up'. 
When you have no family, no church home, nothing.....and you are in a 'tight spot' trying to work your way out of it....I simply don't mind givin' anyone a 'leg up.
Some day, it could be me.
Treat others, as you would like to be treated. 
If I was down and out (for a moment) I would want someone to have some compassion to help me back on my feet.....so that I can once again take care of myself, and my own.

It's the 'entitlement and handout and someone living off MY BACK, MY work ethic, MY money' when I am doing without (no cell phone, no internet, no cable tv, no car payment, heck....no car for that matter) yet still working 2-3 jobs. And they get their hair and nails done, carry a coach bag, have a Iphone, internet access, cable, and (dare I say) Lobster for dinner.

That's what frosts my backside.


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## CarolynRenee (Jan 30, 2008)

I don't think anyone here wants a foot-kissing. I just think that the OTHER side of the situation should be taken into consideration. 

What about those who do NOT (by circumstances or moral choice) receive welfare, yet have to see food taken from THEIR children? 

Yes, there are people who need a hand-up, but it should not be a hand-out. One should be in dire circumstances before asking for a government (taxpayer) benefit. One who has cable tv, internet, multiple phones, or other truly unnecessary items, does not seem to be in "dire" need of assistance.


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## tamsam (May 12, 2006)

I hear this all the time. I worked up till 1989 when I was made to stop working. I have worked at all types of jobs from pulling wrenches, chasing race cars around the world, building 18 wheelers, management in trans rebuilding plant and worst of all welding. I had to have both hips replaced in 1984 but did work till 1989. I spent 8 days in the hospital in 89 and had what I think was every test known to man then and a few that wasn't. Out come was no more work. Yes I have been on disabilty since. Lucky for me I had other insurance but it ran out well over a year ago. Now I wasn't really hurting for anything but still could not work. Well about 6 years ago I made the trip to the hospital in the back of an ambulance. Was there 35 days, lost part of one lung and had 2 major surgeries in one day. I came out of the hospital owing 60,000 dollars just to the hospital. Wiped out my savings along with credit cards and all other assets I had or could get. Now My wife has to stay home to care for me so that leaves out her going to work. Believe me if I could get food stamps I would be more than glad to take them because I busted my hinny to deserve them. Guess what, I make to much at 1,290 a month. Now anyone want to live on that?
Ok some people do take advanage of the system but we were not all lucky enough to keep our jobs and health. Where is all our jobs today? Instead of yelling about people here in the mighty US getting help why not yell about all the trillions of dollars going to other countries and that is part of my money too. Bring our jobs back so our people can work. Also get rid of all the people that do not belong in this country and stop paying them. Sorry for the vent but some just don't see the light. And most have never been there. Sam


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## jen74145 (Oct 31, 2006)

CarolynRenee said:


> I don't think anyone here wants a foot-kissing. I just think that the OTHER side of the situation should be taken into consideration.
> 
> What about those who do NOT (by circumstances or moral choice) receive welfare, yet have to see food taken from THEIR children?
> 
> Yes, there are people who need a hand-up, but it should not be a hand-out. One should be in dire circumstances before asking for a government (taxpayer) benefit. One who has cable tv, internet, multiple phones, or other truly unnecessary items, does not seem to be in "dire" need of assistance.


I do mostly agree with you. I just try to assume the best of complete strangers in the grocery store, lol.

And yes, we do make sacrifices. There are things I would dearly love to do but cannot because that's another bill each month... I would love to get DS a pony. Would love a couple little goats again. But we're trying to fix our debt situation, so... I wait. Really is getting to me lately too, there was a sale held once a year that happened today and I didn't go because I would have bought a pony, lol. I've been waiting seven years now... bleah. I may have had a little "I hate money!" meltdown this morning.


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## JuliaAnn (Dec 7, 2004)

Quote "This attitude of "Be grateful, you thieves!" makes me SICK. What, you want somebody on foodstamps to kiss your feet?"

WHERE did anyone say that?? WHERE? Point it out to me, please.

I was expecting that comment somewhere along the line.

No, I don't want ANYONE kissing my feet. Not hard working people who fall on hard times. 

BUT! NEITHER do I like people DEMANDING that they be supported at the expense of others and then being incredibly DEFENSIVE when those footing the bills (like it or not, it's the truth) comment on how sometimes they themselves need services that they can't qualify for. It's not fun paying for others when you need it for yourself, only to be told 'sorry, you don't qualify'. It is, in essence, being told 'we're taking money from you, and tough bananas that you don't qualify'. 

Again, sorry if folks don't like hearing the truth, but the truth is what it is.


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## shanzone2001 (Dec 3, 2009)

I love my food stamps! If I had to actually pay for my own food then I wouldn't be able to afford my cell phone, flat screen TV, nails and SUV payment.
Thanks to all of you hard-working citizens who support me...now get off the computer and get back to work! 
MMMMMM....my t-bone steaks are almost done!


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## jjgrappler (Jul 26, 2010)

jen74145 said:


> You know... here's the thing. Any of us could find ourselves/the family breadwinner unemployed. Or a sudden accident could mean no income for some time.
> 
> In my DH's hometown he has friends who bust their tails like you would not believe. They are frugal. The area is just so economically depressed that even my SMIL, with decades of nursing experience, and who is also a very hard, dedicated worker, makes a pittance. Fifty years ago, a man who married and had a family made more because he was spporting more people. No longer is this the case, and affordable daycares (where I live at least) are horrible. I'd rather pay a bit and keep kids out of those hellholes, thank you.
> 
> ...


You know people where I live and I use to use that excuse to being in coal country if PA. The area's economically depressed and there's no jobs. I'm sorry but there are jobs anywhere even if you have to travel, I travel a half hour one way to each of my 3 jobs, yes it sucks to be honest but it's what I have got to do to take care of my family and myself. I also have to agree with Tamsam that we need to give the jobs back to american's but that won't happen without another industral revolution and manufacturing plants. It makes me sad to think that noone takes pride in theirselves or this country anymore and i'm also sad that i'm part of the age demographic that's the worse. I don't mind helping anyone that needs it but have the guts to at least try and stand on our own two feet and make a better life for yourself. From what I know sometimes your up, sometimes your down but the race is long and you just can't lie down and quit halfway through.


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## Wisconsin Ann (Feb 27, 2007)

DENALI said:


> I have a question for you, but first a quote from your own signature:
> 
> "And tons of fur babies"
> 
> If you cant afford to feed yourself and you require my assistance to fill your cupboards, how are you able to feed "tons of fur babies"?


Many of the folks on foodstamps are supplementing meat by raising animals...poultry or rabbits. Ends up being a great way to provide protein that you KNOW is healthy and not subject to being recalled because of an ecoli outbreak. 


There are lots of reasons people have foodstamps. Kids is a big one. Some people use them wisely, some don't. the comment given about "free food" I would guess is someone who DOESN'T use them wisely, but i've seen a lot of people buying basic necessities and good choices. 

One of the things missing in most states is a basic "food buying" class for those who get food stamps. I FIRMLY believe that given the education about food choices, most people would make healthy choices. <sigh...yeah, I've got my rose colored glasses on again>

hmm...as long as I'm yaking...About the idea of food stamp or welfare recipients having new cars....One of the reasons for that is newer cars don't nickle and dime you to death. A new car won't break down and cost $$$ to fix. It's reliable. And welfare or SS recipients can often get a government loan or assistance for new cars. IF..big IF...they're working and can afford the payments. 

Oh yah...sometimes you need vehicles that can accommodate wheelchairs. 

Now I have a question...what on EARTH does this all have to do with Homesteading Questions?


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## Horseyrider (Aug 8, 2010)

> It makes me sad to think that noone takes pride in theirselves or this country anymore and i'm also sad that i'm part of the age demographic that's the worse.


I don't think this is necessarily true. I think lots of people take pride in their country. I do. I'm proud that I live in a country where we don't want children to go hungry because their parents are jobless. Where many schools have breakfast programs because there's none at home. Where I can help a stranger a thousand miles away to eat and have shelter, through my tax dollars. I'm even proud to help an adult who's an addict to get food stamps and subsidized housing, to go along with their liquor, cigarettes, and drugs. They're in a kind of Hades I don't have to ever experience.

Are we not a compassionate culture? 

I will happily fund the handful of deadbeats who abuse the system and create those stereotypes we've heard about here in order to reach those who truly need the help. I don't even mind feeding those who grow up knowing nothing but a culture of poverty and hopelessness, and live out their lives on welfare. Who are we as a people if we let other Americans, regardless of their circumstances, go hungry or cold or homeless? 

I don't want food stamp recipients to kiss my feet. I don't really want anything from them except for them to use my tax dollars as a stepping stone to a better life; or at least to make the one they're living now a little less desperate.


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## arabian knight (Dec 19, 2005)

Wisconsin Ann said:


> Many of the folks on foodstamps are supplementing meat by raising animals...poultry or rabbits. Ends up being a great way to provide protein that you KNOW is healthy and not subject to being recalled because of an ecoli outbreak.


 And that is what I am doing. I raise one steer every 2 years, and the food program helps me do just that.
Now i did n 't even sign up for the food program the first 4 years I was on SS Disability, I have just been on them now this is the 2nd year.
As prices have gone up in the store, that program is helping a lot. And looks like no COLA is going to take place this year either, and prices will still be going up, it will really help in the coming months.
And I bet that our supplemental insurance coverage will go up agin in Jan.
And who knows what will happen in years to come as they cut back Medicare payments from the 80% now down to 60%~! The coverage for that other 40% will get higher and higher.
So any extra help that a person can get is surely appreciated and needed in most cases.


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## DamnearaFarm (Sep 27, 2007)

jen74145 said:


> You know... here's the thing. Any of us could find ourselves/the family breadwinner unemployed. Or a sudden accident could mean no income for some time.
> 
> In my DH's hometown he has friends who bust their tails like you would not believe. They are frugal. The area is just so economically depressed that even my SMIL, with decades of nursing experience, and who is also a very hard, dedicated worker, makes a pittance. Fifty years ago, a man who married and had a family made more because he was spporting more people. No longer is this the case, and affordable daycares (where I live at least) are horrible. I'd rather pay a bit and keep kids out of those hellholes, thank you.
> 
> ...


I agree with you totally, Jen.

My husband has been the family breadwinner since FOURTEEN. That's right, he supported himself and his mother since he was fourteen years old. Not due to any disability on her part- she's just lazy. He isn't college educated and never finished high school. When the choice comes down to eat or school and the principal says 'you're missing too much school for work'- what other choice do you have? He was making GOOD money. Then in December 2008, his company notified him that they were selling the company within two weeks. He was offered positions with both the companies who split his company- at a whopping 45,000 a year loss. 

We hit rock bottom, real fast. Never applied for assistance. We do accept reduced lunch for the kids now, but that's it. 

We had nice, older vehicles before this happened- were we supposed to sell them and buy beaters? Give away all our clothes and wear rags?

Just because someone has a nice vehicle and nice clothes doesn't mean they're defrauding the federal government. There's a lot of it out there, but not everyone that recieves assistance is sittin' on their rears eating doritos.


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## HOTW (Jul 3, 2007)

14 years ago my DH lost his job, I had just had a baby andwe went to ask for assitance because we were scared. Our car(paid for& not a newer model ) was worht "too much" to get benefits. We made do without-I hate spaghetti to this day. At the time we had been living on his wage of about 16,000/yr with my making everyhting from scratch, we did have WIC, and I would pick any berries we found along the road. Yet we could not get help! We had very littl emoney (after we paid our rent 3 months in advacne like the welfare office told us to to get rid of the savings) and I was lucky to get a PT job thru a friend for 16 hours a week(workign aroud my babies nursing schedule). My kids would not have had a Christmas that year if my daughters teacher had not overheard her say her Daddy lost his job and arranged for the PTA to sponsor us as a christmas family. We ddin't even have a turkey that year it was a small chicken but we were grateful we had that! I din't know about supplelemntal programs until DH found another job and someone told him about food banks! 

I will admit I am resentful when I see people who spend their benefits on food I would not evne buy now, get cash and then buy cigaretes. I PAY for thise benefits and am tired fo seeing them get abused ina manner it was not meant for! I do not fault people who I know are workign and tryign hard but they are the ones who do not buy convenience foods. You learn to see the difference very quickly.


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## Lizza (Nov 30, 2005)

You know, there are a lot of things that the government spends money on that gets my panties in a wad, for the most part, food for families isn't one of them.


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## bee (May 12, 2002)

I avoid the markets the first of the month.If I have to be there I try real hard not to look in the buggies around me. I try not to see the wic voucher DADs that have buggies FULL of gallons of milk you know he is going to sell..no one family could use all that before it goes bad. I try not to see the vastly overweight women with the buggies full of soda,pizza and frozen dinners. I bite my lip to keep from saying to the cashier "this green stuff is cash..I know you haven't seen much of it today." I wince when I see the frail,rail thin older folks with their pityfull few groceries searching for change to finish paying. I have seen one young woman that sticks in my mind; clean and obviously ashamed to have to pay with food stamps.
Folks all of you agree, our system is broken. What we don't agree on is how to fix it and who(in what circumstance) is deserving of help. For my money it would be deceased veteran's and firefighter's families, elderly, disabled and children's food programs. It would be the "working poor"; those doing the best they can. I have no desire to support baby factory generational welfare families who get their daughters pregnant to up the checks. No desire to know that food programs foodstuffs I help pay for is being sold for the cash for cigs,drugs and booze.
The survival part of this thread is in knowing and planning for what will happen when the "golden hoard" is cut from the dry teat of our failed government. It is in trying to have enough put by for yourselves and some to share for those you personally feel "worthy"; plus lead chasers for those who won't accept the word no.
Not very "christian" of me but then it comes down to choices. I could have had babies out of wedlock but chose to prevent conception because I was not wed. I could have refused to work for all these years and let the government support me one way or another. I still choose to work because my only sin is not just judging others but pride. I have to blame my parents; they taught me a work ethic.
Our system will not change because those whose job it is to pare down the rolls would lose their jobs if they did them and truely got rid of the cheats.


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## scooter (Mar 31, 2008)

When I was growing up, my parent's were very poor, but at that time there wasn't all these programs and they had 5 children to feed. They did everything they could. They grew a big garden, hunted for rabbits and pheasants and kept us fed. We always wore hand me down clothes. A lot of the ones that are getting help now probably wouldn't think of gardening or hunting or going without a lot.


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## MJsLady (Aug 16, 2006)

I remember back when I was a kid.
My mom was a single parent who worked hard and we did not qualify for help (70's) 
Well she gave a neighbor a ride in exchange for food stamps.

the first time we went to the store she wanted beer. She always had a beer after work.

The gal said she could not buy that.
Mom looked at the cart that had meat veggies, a carton of ice cream and some soda (both very rare treats for the 2 of us) and she says to the cashier
You mean I can buy junk to rot my kids teeth but i can not get a beer to help me sleep at night?

I kind of agree. candy, soda, cookies, cake, they are not food they are junk. They will not help feed the mind or body they will just encourage obesity and other health issues.


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## beaglebiz (Aug 5, 2008)

Bee...we go though a gallon to two gallons of milk a day (which we pay for) three sons and a DH. I buy six at a time and keep 4 in the basement fridge, cause I hate running out.
Just sayin'
If I had more land Id get a cow


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## RAHN (Mar 10, 2009)

If you take government hand-outs on a temporary basis because of some sort of crisis or unexpected turn- after you have paid into the system and will pay into the system again soon, then you are simply getting your loan paid back.

If you take government hand-outs on an ongoing basis and have taken out more than you have put in then you are a moocher- a drain, a curse and a pox on society. 

If you wonder why the government is in the hand-out business in the first place instead of non-profit charities and religious organizations, and mad as hell that you have to be forced into being 'charitable' to the government so they can re-distribute your money to a moocher then you're waking up.


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## Dr. Mom (Jan 13, 2008)

7thswan said:


> Oh now I get it, they think food stamps give them free food. That's funny.


Yeah, it's funny all right, but nobody is laughing.


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## HOTW (Jul 3, 2007)

RAHN said:


> If you take government hand-outs on a temporary basis because of some sort of crisis or unexpected turn- after you have paid into the system and will pay into the system again soon, then you are simply getting your loan paid back.
> 
> If you take government hand-outs on an ongoing basis and have taken out more than you have put in then you are a moocher- a drain, a curse and a pox on society.
> 
> If you wonder why the government is in the hand-out business in the first place instead of non-profit charities and religious organizations, and mad as hell that you have to be forced into being 'charitable' to the government so they can re-distribute your money to a moocher then you're waking up.



I htink this is the best way of expressing the issue I have ever seen!


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## JanS (Jul 28, 2002)

I suspect two of my kids are moochers, drains, curses and a pox on society. They probably ended up with more social security than my husband put in before he died. Although he did work for over 30 years, sometimes at several jobs, so who knows.


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## MJsLady (Aug 16, 2006)

Jan, bull pucky. SS is insurance. FS and welfare are not. 
Your husband paid in, as did my mom, so the kids could have help when he was gone. 

That is different, just as it is different when some one uses fs and welfare to get back on their feet while some one else pops out kids so the checks do not stop.


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## texican (Oct 4, 2003)

MJsLady said:


> Jan, bull pucky. SS is insurance. FS and welfare are not.
> Your husband paid in, as did my mom, so the kids could have help when he was gone.
> 
> That is different, just as it is different when some one uses fs and welfare to get back on their feet while some one else pops out kids so the checks do not stop.


Sorry, SS is welfare. If it were an actual insurance policy, you'd get back what you paid in, plus interest. A very large majority of the population "on" SS, got what they paid in, in the first couple years of bennies. Spouses that never paid a cent get paid. People that never paid anything, spouse or not, get paid (children). It's a Ponzi scheme... pure and simple. If it were a private concern, it'd be busted, and the architects put in prison... seeing as it's govt., it's "ok", and no one's going to prison... they're going to just print more money to cover the bennies.

Most folks do contribute something to SS... but, if they live long enough, they'll exhaust their true benefits, and start taking money that isn't there's.

There's no magic safe deposit box where everyone's cash is going to, and then will be redistributed later on, at retirement... what goes in today, goes right out the door seconds later, to some existing SS recipient.

I have more faith that Elvis will ride up on his unicorn, eating peanut butter and nana sandwich, when I turn 65, than I do (believe) SS will be around in a decade or so.


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## tamsam (May 12, 2006)

Well I guess I am a moocher. And have been since 1989. For you folks that have it all I hope you never lose it as I did. Sorry to be a burden on you but thanks for your help. Get mad and stop your money from leaving this country and get rid of the people that don't belong here. I was born and raised here and paid into the system until I was made to quit. Sam
PS never judge until you have walked in others shoes.


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## MJsLady (Aug 16, 2006)

OK, look there is a difference between the sysem helping those who try, who pay in etc. 
Folks in general are not angry at those people. Like Jen and Sam. SS was set up as insurance. Insurance has never that I know of paid you decent interest. That is why Dave R. and others stress term over whole. The interest is not there.

Jen's kids are getting the interest due their dad, in his place. 

I have no issue helping a disabled person, or a child. It is the healthy able to go dancing but refuse to pick oranges to help themselves crowd I have issues with, as well as the i am not a citizen but will find away to get you to support me anyway crowd. 

I have walked in those shoes. I have lived below the poverty level. For about 18 months we got medicaid and fs. I went to college on survivor ss bennies from my mom. 

What I do not get is being told when I went for help (when the union cost Beloved his job and we had used all our savings to survive) was that I needed to dump my kids in day care and go get a job or training while getting the fs. How do others get the big cars when I was told to qualify your car can only be worth so much if it is more sell it then come see us? The only way I can see to do it is to lie and cheat. The folks doing that need a wake up call and inspections and to be dumped asap.


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## JanS (Jul 28, 2002)

texican said:


> I have more faith that Elvis will ride up on his unicorn, eating peanut butter and nana sandwich, when I turn 65, than I do (believe) SS will be around in a decade or so.


But if it is, you're going to turn it down, right?


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## skwentnaflyer (Mar 9, 2009)

RAHN said:


> If you take government hand-outs on a temporary basis because of some sort of crisis or unexpected turn- after you have paid into the system and will pay into the system again soon, then you are simply getting your loan paid back.
> 
> If you take government hand-outs on an ongoing basis and have taken out more than you have put in then you are a moocher- a drain, a curse and a pox on society.
> 
> If you wonder why the government is in the hand-out business in the first place instead of non-profit charities and religious organizations, and mad as hell that you have to be forced into being 'charitable' to the government so they can re-distribute your money to a moocher then you're waking up.


Well said!


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## tamsam (May 12, 2006)

Well I get the point how so many of you feel. I will change from what I said before and do a sin by hoping some get the joys of going through what I have for the last 7 years of mooching. I will now take my fake hips and my O2 bottle and hobble off into the sunset. GOOD BY TO ALL Sam


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## AngieM2 (May 10, 2002)

Sam - don't let the stuff here get you down. 
Just put them on ignore and go on with life. 

Angie


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## AngieM2 (May 10, 2002)

This (and several other) threads do make one wonder if all remember agreeing in the FAQ when signing up to abide by the "Be Nice" rule.


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## Becka (Mar 15, 2008)

I don't mind giving assistance those the disabled, elderly, and others who truly need it. There but for the grace of God go I. 

I do have a beef with the younger welfare generation in my town, however. They are able-bodied enough to reproduce children like rabbits, but the fathers are not made to pay for those children. It's easier for the government to make the tax payers foot the bill. I say hunt the young daddies down and sterilize them or make 'em pay for their own kids.


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## oth47 (Jan 11, 2008)

Do any of you folks personally know someone who gets food stamps? Do you know that they have cable tv?cell phone? Fancy car?Internet service? Do you know that they go get manicures and hairdos? Do you know they sell their food stamps?Do you know these things for truth or are you saying what you want to be the truth? I'd sure hate to ask some of you for help in a shtf situation..Charles


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## MJsLady (Aug 16, 2006)

oth47 said:


> Do any of you folks personally know someone who gets food stamps? Do you know that they have cable tv?cell phone? Fancy car?Internet service? Do you know that they go get manicures and hairdos? Do you know they sell their food stamps?Do you know these things for truth or are you saying what you want to be the truth? I'd sure hate to ask some of you for help in a shtf situation..Charles



Yes Charles I have known people like this. I have seen folks take their kids begging in the walmart parking lot and get angry when I give them a bag of decent food for the obviously hungry (as in crying and then smiling when they see the bag of bread and pb and such) kids instead of money.

I rarely give money, I will give food.


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## jross (Sep 3, 2006)

We used to be a nation of of survivors and by some of the posts here, some still are, but more and more we are becoming a nation of dependents. Right up until there is no one left to supply the needs. Then where will we be? I have a feeling the present administration may be counting on it. We are on a fixed income, as costs go up, our spending goes down. First to go will be cable, then land line phone, then cell phone, then weekly dining out, then no skating for me, then one vehicle, then oil service, then electrical ( Should have listened to D.W., when she wanted a propane stove), then we sell out and move someplace cheaper. Only God will still get His share.


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## Guest (Oct 4, 2010)

After seeing Tamsam's hissy elsewhere on HT, I had to come see what this thread is all about.

I see lots of judgemental and uninformed posters in this topic. I have a comeback for just about every other post, but I will refrain.

Some people need a hand up. Some are getting a handout when they shouldn't.

Most likely, some in that Walmart that the op spoke of truly need the help and some don't. But I won't judge food stamp recipients without even knowing their situation.



pastelsummer said:


> EXCUSE ME!!!!!! the free food comment by the lady was wrong but dont you dare judge me because i am on foodstamps!!! I will tell you that some months the SECOND foodstamps are in i am at the store because my cupboards are empty and i STILL supplement with my own money PLUS my husband works! and in addition to that blatant ingnorant statement it just shows how much of a jerk you are!


I think you could have gotten your point across in a nicer way. But aside from that, I strongly suspect you are one of those who truly need the food stamps, so I am happy to see you getting them.

But since you are running out of food before the end of the month, might I suggest you follow some of my couponing topics so you can learn to stretch your food stamps much, much further?


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## LoneStrChic23 (Jul 30, 2010)

Yup! Sure do. My brothers ex girl friend was THAT person. She had 2 kids, whose fathers were her on again, off again boyfriends. To top off the manicures, pedi's and trip to the salon every 3 weeks she also never missed a Saturday night at the bar. She was offered help (by my parents & some church members) and refused it. My dad struggled to get her an amazing job at the airport, which she lost not long after (she came to work stoned and hung over) Thankfully my brother grew a brain and left her. 

I have not a single problem with people who are truly down & out receiving help. A few years ago, we lost our home in a house fire, it was our 1st home and we were under insured. The debt left over took all of our savings, and then some to clear up and we had hardly anything to start over with (in fact we still have not replaced a majority of the "basic" items we lost). About a year after that, my husband got very, very sick and almost died. He had clostridium difficile that had become resistant to antibiotics (he also has MS and the new illness on top of that was very hard on him). He was in the hospital for 2 months and when he got out his prescriptions were over $1000. At the beginning of this mess I cut off my internet, my cable and everything else that wasn't essential for survival. I waitress part-time and so I bumped my hours up to full time to try & keep it together. 

Out of desperation I applied for food stamps. And was denied. Why? Because for my family of 4 I made $17 over the limit. The pay stub I brought in for that period happened to be a lucky week that I had worked 2 doubles back to back during the fair and I had higher than average tips due to the folks from out of town... Didn't matter that every year we paid in taxes (unlike my brother's ex who got huge sums for her tax returns, which went towards buying the latest D&G handbag or getting a new tattoo) and that I was only applying for temporary aid. I applied again bringing 2 of my "normal" pay stubs, and was denied that time for having a car that was too new, even though it was a newer car I bought before our world fell apart....that didn't matter either. 

So we struggled, I broke down & borrowed $200 from my dad to keep my electric on and many, many nights I went to bed hungry because I didn't have enough food to feed myself, 2 kids and a sick husband who was almost skin & bones after loosing 71 lbs while sick, so I pretended that I ate, fed my family and went to bed hungry quite a lot. When my husband needed a follow up visit, and meds refilled, I pawned my wedding ring to do it. Broke my heart to do it, but it was a necessary sacrifice. 

Oh and did I mention that my brother's ex also got TANF (not sure if all states have it, but Texas does and it pays for stuff FS won't)? In fact she got FS, TANF, gas checks to get her to school, which BTW she failed due to lack of attendance (and of course she was going to college on grant money) and she used her TANF checks to buy cigarettes!! She was also on a program that helped her pay her electric bill, received free day care for the 2 kids and her car is newer than mine. 

Someone please explain that to me?

So, yes there are people who abuse the system and they make me sick! And for some reason these people can get all the assistance they need without a struggle, but heaven forbid a family who is TRYING dare to apply for TEMPORARY aide in an obviously desperate situation! 
In my area, girls like my brother's ex are plentiful. They don't care. One of my co-workers is the same type of gal, who has 3 kids and isn't even sure who the father is on 2 of them!!!! The sad part is they have kids and MOST of them don't even use the benefits to take proper care of their kids. So in turn, the kids grow up on junk and some end up following in their parents foot steps....

The system is a mess. I don't judge the folks who TRY. I don't judge the folks who use the benefits properly so they can survive while they try to better themselves and their situation. I do have a HUGE issue paying the way for people like my brother's ex. 

Though I must say one thing...we haven't pulled ourselves out of the hole completely, but during that awful time I learned so much and though I've always been frugal, I got even better at making every single thing stretch. It was awful, it was miserable, but in the end I'm stronger for the struggles.

Best Wishes,
Crystal
http://noodlevilleadventures.blogspot.com 




oth47 said:


> Do any of you folks personally know someone who gets food stamps? Do you know that they have cable tv?cell phone? Fancy car?Internet service? Do you know that they go get manicures and hairdos? Do you know they sell their food stamps?Do you know these things for truth or are you saying what you want to be the truth? I'd sure hate to ask some of you for help in a shtf situation..Charles


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## Guest (Oct 4, 2010)

oth47 said:


> Do any of you folks personally know someone who gets food stamps? Do you know that they have cable tv?cell phone? Fancy car?Internet service? Do you know that they go get manicures and hairdos? Do you know they sell their food stamps?Do you know these things for truth or are you saying what you want to be the truth? I'd sure hate to ask some of you for help in a shtf situation..Charles


I've known way too many of those people.

*Hint* go to a welfare office waiting room and watch how many people are texting on their smart phones.

Also note the fancy new cars they're driving, and the designer clothes in the latest fashions that they're wearing.

Read my post here: http://www.homesteadingtoday.com/showthread.php?p=4667804#post4667804


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## Guest (Oct 4, 2010)

LoneStrChic23 said:


> <snip>(in fact we still have not replaced a majority of the "basic" items we lost).<snip>


You are EXACTLY the type of person I like to help. What kind of basics do you need? I know it's a long shot that you are close enough, but where in Texas are you?

PS: your brother's gf that you described was MY brother's wife! Thank goodness she's an EX!!!


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## LoneStrChic23 (Jul 30, 2010)

Oh and to reply to the original OP.

There's a Wal-Mart not far from the restaurant I waitress at. I sometimes go there when I get off at night to pick up odds and ends before going home. Depending on the time of month (usually around the 1st & 15th) it's pretty crowded, even after midnight as that's when a lot of people get their paychecks deposited automatically (usually military & airport workers) so I wouldn't be quick to judge just because they're out shopping late. 

Personally I prefer to shop late at night when I can. I can go by myself, and if I time it right, I can go when the store isn't busy & I don't have to wait in line for hours. 

Best Wishes,
Crystal
http://noodlevilleadventures.blogspot.com


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## Sonshine (Jul 27, 2007)

arabian knight said:


> That should be no surprise at all, look at the date. The beginning of the Month....
> The 2nd of Oct.
> Yesterday many received their SS Checks and or other Governmental checks.~! No mystery at all as to why WM was packed. And another things is yesterday was Friday many workers get paid on that day. LOL


Yep, the military gets their pay on the 1st and the 15th. Can't get near a Walmart in military towns on those days.


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## Sonshine (Jul 27, 2007)

jjgrappler said:


> I have to agree with this post maybe it was worded that wrong way, but I work 3 jobs and I take no assistance from the government. I think assistance is needed and a good thing for some people but the people that think they're entitled to it is what makes most people mad. I understand these are rough times but if you don't at least try and help yourself what do you expect. Like stated I work 3 jobs to pay my way and other people's way who seem to have excuses why they can't work. Can you honestly blame people for being upset at what they view as vampires and leeches to the system and more importantly their own paychecks?


Do you realize that many of your military enlisted men and women with families qualify for foodstamps. Are you calling them vampires and leeches?


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## Sonshine (Jul 27, 2007)

jjgrappler said:


> '
> 
> I couldn't agree with you more. I have been out on my own since I was around 19 and decided I wanted to go back to college part time while working full-time. They government would not even give me any assistance because my parent's made too much, but here's the kicker they were seperated and weren't a couple and plus I wasn't ven living with them. I am sorry if this offends anyone but if you can't afford a family or children don't have them. It's not my responsibility to take care of your family in addition to my own. The american dream isn't just given to you, you have to go out get your hands dirty and earn it. I'm only 24 but I have been on my own struggling and I feel like i'm a better person for it. Now what's the excuse for anybody else not doing the same?


There are times when the unexpected happens. Especially in today's economy and job market. Many people in my area can't find jobs. I'm not talking about high paying jobs, I'm talking about working at McDonalds, or bagging groceries. There's just not much available right now. My neighbor had been layed off of her job. Her DH works as a prison guard, but doesn't make much. They have 3 kids. Do I begrudge her getting assistance? Not at all. She's been without a job since before Christmas this past year. DH and I bought or made Christmas gifts for her kids. She wouldn't take it as a handout, but helped me take care of our animals and helped me with my housework. 

Yes, there are some that abuse the system, but there are also many out there that just need a little help to get them through a rough patch in life. If my DH lost his job and we didn't have enough money to put food on the table to feed my son, you betcha, I would try to get foodstamps to get us through.


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## Sonshine (Jul 27, 2007)

scooter said:


> When I was growing up, my parent's were very poor, but at that time there wasn't all these programs and they had 5 children to feed. They did everything they could. They grew a big garden, hunted for rabbits and pheasants and kept us fed. We always wore hand me down clothes. A lot of the ones that are getting help now probably wouldn't think of gardening or hunting or going without a lot.


Or they may not know how to raise a garden, or they may not have the land to raise a garden.


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## LoneStrChic23 (Jul 30, 2010)

Oh the basics aren't a biggey, we get by okay and I'm slowly filling in the gaps as I can, so no worries there. It will all come together in time 

Probably could have replaced the missing things recently, but I chose to buy 2 pregnant dairy goats instead.  Our goal is by next year to be able to produce as much of our own food stuff as possible so we have healthier options and if, heaven forbid we ever hit rock bottom again, I'll be able to do better by my family and not worry whether or not I'll get turned down for help. 

Were mostly missing small stuff like kitchen things (not dinner ware, mainly pots, pans, mixing bowls, ect. ect.)...before the house fire I had a "love affair" with plush bathroom towels and had about 9 per person in a variety of color schemes, where as now towels, wash cloths and such are limited in number. Little things like that. And I doubt I'll ever replace my towel collection as it was over the top *blush*...most were sets I received from family at baby showers & our house warming party. The kitchen stuff however, I do miss, especially my kitchen aid mixer! Oh I loved that thing! LOL it was old & got it from my grandma after she used it for who knows how long and it still ran perfect. I did save one thing from the fire...everyone thought it was crazy, but I dug through the ashes forever until I found my cast iron skillets!! Haha One was cracked in half, but the other was just fine and still makes a great pan of corn bread.  Good cast iron is worth its weight in gold  Little by little we add to the house as we can. Bought curtains recently off craigslist, and before that I found a beautiful dinner ware set at a yard sale for $10 (and the set has pieces to serve 8) so slowly but surely were putting it together. We wouldn't even be where we are now if it hadn't been for family, friends and the church that pulled together & helped us get furniture and such. 


Happy to hear your brother is no longer with his ex if she was that sort. It was very hard on my brother when he left his ex. He got attached to the kids and they argued a lot about the care they should have been receiving but weren't getting. My brother, not being the father couldn't do much. The sad part is this girl is SMART! She's very pretty and when she's not trying to be the ultimate diva/party girl, she's nice. She has so much going for her if she'd just apply an ounce of effort to putting her life in order. But for her, she wants as much as possible for as little work as possible and her world revolves around her party scene & keeping up appearances. Its sad to see the potential she has go to waste, but no one can help her get things in order when she's not willing to try. The "help" she receives from the government isn't really help, IMO...it just enables her to continue on her current path. 

Best Wishes,
Crystal
http://noodlevilleadventures.blogspot.com

Oh BTW- I live in Noodle Texas...I'm 40 minutes west of Abilene, so I think I'm a few hours from your neck of the woods  



ladycat said:


> You are EXACTLY the type of person I like to help. What kind of basics do you need? I know it's a long shot that you are close enough, but where in Texas are you?
> 
> PS: your brother's gf that you described was MY brother's wife! Thank goodness she's an EX!!!


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## JuliaAnn (Dec 7, 2004)

I've never heard of Noodle, and I've traveled the state extensively. We're going to be about middle of the way between Abliene and Ft. Worth one of these days soon (not soon enough, though). Glad to hear things are slowly getting back to normal for you and your family. It can take years to overcome financial devistation.


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## LoneStrChic23 (Jul 30, 2010)

LOL most people haven't! It's why my blog is named "Noodleville Adventures"  (I don't have internet other than my phone though, so I don't put much on it anymore..)

I work in Abilene and most people there haven't even heard of it, I've even had to show some folks my DL just to prove I wasn't making it up. 

Our house is a small pier & beam foundation house built in the 1940's (the addition that is our living room/den was added in the late 60's)There's not much here...an old gin that closed down AGES ago. There was a brothel here that cattle pushers stopped at on the way from Abilene to Sweetwater...my father in law bought it, had it restored & it was beautiful until it, and his firearm collection of 700 guns caught fire about 10 years ago.  There's also two churches out here, but other than that, nothing. If I want to go to the gas station it's about 18 miles one way to the closest one. But, I've only got $8000 until it's paid for and it was the best option we saw after our house fire as we didn't want to rent if we could avoid it. 

It's peaceful and even though I drive the kids 19 miles one way to school, they attend an amazing school with teachers I adore. 

Things are slowly coming together. Though sometimes I think I'll never have everything replaced. You never realize just how much you have until you loose it all. Most of it was just "stuff" but things like my pictures, videos of the kids sonograms and 1st steps.....those things I still miss dearly, but I'd rather have the family to make more memories with, than pictures & videos of them. Thanks for the kind thoughts  I consider myself blessed, and even though it hurts to loose things and spend ages trying to piece it back together I learned so much over the past few years...lessons I couldn't have had any other way. I feel more confident that I could handle tough times when they come back again thanks to what we've overcome.

Best Wishes,
Crystal
http://noodlevilleadventures.blogspot.com 




JuliaAnn said:


> I've never heard of Noodle, and I've traveled the state extensively. We're going to be about middle of the way between Abliene and Ft. Worth one of these days soon (not soon enough, though). Glad to hear things are slowly getting back to normal for you and your family. It can take years to overcome financial devistation.


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## Roadking (Oct 8, 2009)

oth47 said:


> Do any of you folks personally know someone who gets food stamps? Do you know that they have cable tv?cell phone? Fancy car?Internet service? Do you know that they go get manicures and hairdos? Do you know they sell their food stamps?Do you know these things for truth or are you saying what you want to be the truth? I'd sure hate to ask some of you for help in a shtf situation..Charles


Yes, I know several. "dad's "laid off" so I get the free school lunch (as he laughs), wife get manicure every other week, hair as well. All have ?"Droids"? whatever they are...my phone doesn't have a camera (and I like it that way, BTW). Cable, internet, new computers and TVs...they DO milk the system and are happy to point it out.
Judge and be judged? Nope. I disagree with what they do, but still they are firends with otherwise very good habits. Just not my style, even though I could do it too, I gotta sleep at night. They are not needy or fallen on hard times...just using every loophole they can find.
Matt


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## edcopp (Oct 9, 2004)

7thswan said:


> Oh now I get it, they think food stamps give them free food. That's funny.


True too.:grin:


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## RedneckPete (Aug 23, 2004)

manfred said:


> Isles filled with fat women with their carts overflowing...


Fat people don't deserve social assistance. If you have enough money to get yourself fat, you have enough money to get yourself by.

Social assistance should be graded by BMI.

Pete


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## Our Little Farm (Apr 26, 2010)

Wow. This thread has shocked me.

I am very sure there are many folk here who are on food stamps after working hard, and getting laid off from a job when a company closes. Many whom are actively seeking work and WANT to work. In the meantime, the pennies won't stretch far enough and they are on food stamps. Not everyone is out to milk the system, or even want to be in that position.

I am thankful we never have, but I certainly don't begrudge a family who truly needs them, the right to use them.


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## Roadking (Oct 8, 2009)

Italics, mine...Bold, quoted point...


Our Little Farm said:


> Wow. This thread has shocked me.
> 
> I am very sure there are many folk here who are on food stamps after working hard, and *getting laid off from a job when a company closes*. Many whom are actively seeking work and WANT to work. In the meantime, the pennies won't stretch far enough and they are on food stamps. Not everyone is out to milk the system, or even want to be in that position.
> _Then my neighbor's kid, in twenties, whose company just closed the doors, laughs..."why get a job, I've got a 99 week paid vacation" from his phone on facebook. Why work? (rehtorical question) Lives at home, no rent, and gripes he can't go out with the guys...._
> ...


_Agreed, if needed, glad it's in place...the gist I see on this thread, is the anger at the number who don't NEED, just TAKE._:bored:
Matt


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## Roadking (Oct 8, 2009)

Hmmm, must have goofed somewhere...
Meant as;
"Then my neighbor's kid, in twenties, whose company just closed the doors, laughs..."why get a job, I've got a 99 week paid vacation" from his phone on facebook. Why work? (rehtorical question) Lives at home, no rent, and gripes he can't go out with the guys...."


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## lamoncha lover (Mar 1, 2009)

well....interesting posts. Hoping all the folks doing great continue to and those that have hit hard times hit some good times soon. 
In the meantime I hope anyone who gets any help in any form does not let some of these posterss bother them. I would caution some that one never knows when the tables will turn. A little compassion goes along ways. lori


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## Our Little Farm (Apr 26, 2010)

Well said Lori.


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## shanzone2001 (Dec 3, 2009)

Our Little Farm said:


> Wow. This thread has shocked me.
> 
> I am very sure there are many folk here who are on food stamps after working hard, and getting laid off from a job when a company closes. Many whom are actively seeking work and WANT to work. In the meantime, the pennies won't stretch far enough and they are on food stamps. Not everyone is out to milk the system, or even want to be in that position.
> 
> I am thankful we never have, but I certainly don't begrudge a family who truly needs them, the right to use them.


There are 2 categories of people receiving government help. Those who need a temporary helping hand, and the rest who have made government money their "employer" and expect to continue receiving it indefinitely.
I, too, would not begrudge a family who ran across hard times and received temporary help to get through. That could be me someday. The problem I would have is a family receiving cash assistance and spending it on non-necessities such as fake nails, tobacco, alcohol, or high-end cell phones.


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## Guest (Oct 5, 2010)

shanzone2001 said:


> There are 2 categories of people receiving government help. Those who need a temporary helping hand, and the rest who have made government money their "employer" and expect to continue receiving it indefinitely.


Correct.


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## Sonshine (Jul 27, 2007)

shanzone2001 said:


> There are 2 categories of people receiving government help. Those who need a temporary helping hand, and the rest who have made government money their "employer" and expect to continue receiving it indefinitely.
> I, too, would not begrudge a family who ran across hard times and received temporary help to get through. That could be me someday. The problem I would have is a family receiving cash assistance and spending it on non-necessities such as fake nails, tobacco, alcohol, or high-end cell phones.


What about the person who is permanently disabled?


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## Guest (Oct 5, 2010)

Sonshine said:


> What about the person who is permanently disabled?


If they need food stamps, I don't see a problem with them receiving same.


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## shanzone2001 (Dec 3, 2009)

Sonshine said:


> What about the person who is permanently disabled?


People who can work should work. Period. 
Permanently disabled can mean many things. Being disabled because you are a war veteran or have a major health issue is FAR different from being "disabled" because you are a drug addict or alcoholic.
It is baffling how many parents push to have their child labeled "disabled" in order to receive SSI. 
Drug baby?? SSI
Social anxiety??? SSI
Special Ed??? SSI

Compare those cases to a productive member of society who has worked and paid into the system receiving SSI due to age or physical disability.


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## Sonshine (Jul 27, 2007)

shanzone2001 said:


> People who can work should work. Period.
> Permanently disabled can mean many things. Being disabled because you are a war veteran or have a major health issue is FAR different from being "disabled" because you are a drug addict or alcoholic.
> It is baffling how many parents push to have their child labeled "disabled" in order to receive SSI.
> Drug baby?? SSI
> ...


The reason I asked is because so many speak of temporary help, but there are those who are disabled that need more than just temporary help.

I understand the anger. I happen to be disabled, at least temporary, and hoping that will soon be a thing of the past. I also happen to have a special needs child. At the present we don't need assistance because DH has a good career in the USAF and will be retiring soon, but it makes me wonder how people in here would have treated me if this had not been the situation. For the past 10 years I have been pretty much confined to a wheelchair. My DS has several learning disabilities and his doctors have told me his best chance would be for me to homeschool him. So, even if I was able to work, if it was just me and DS for some reason, would I have been drug through the mud because I needed assistance? Just wondering.


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## Jan Doling (May 21, 2004)

I need a t-shirt that says:

I don't like to work...to support those who don't like to work!


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## shanzone2001 (Dec 3, 2009)

Sonshine said:


> So, even if I was able to work, if it was just me and DS for some reason, would I have been drug through the mud because I needed assistance? Just wondering.


Honestly, I think it would depend on how you spent the money you received for your son. If you needed to be home with him, then "his" money would be used to pay the difference between you working and staying home.
My biggest issue is people getting SSI for their "disabled" child and using it as additional income to buy a bigger house, fancier car, etc.
If having a child with a disability creates expenses that someone cannot afford (therapy, special medical equipment, expensive diet supplements, tutoring, etc.) and the only way the child can have those items or services is with SSI, then the receiving the money is understandable.


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## Sonshine (Jul 27, 2007)

shanzone2001 said:


> Honestly, I think it would depend on how you spent the money you received for your son. If you needed to be home with him, then "his" money would be used to pay the difference between you working and staying home.
> My biggest issue is people getting SSI for their "disabled" child and using it as additional income to buy a bigger house, fancier car, etc.
> If having a child with a disability creates expenses that someone cannot afford (therapy, special medical equipment, expensive diet supplements, tutoring, etc.) and the only way the child can have those items or services is with SSI, then the receiving the money is understandable.


I guess that's my point. Does the system get abused by some? Of course. But, are we, as a people, too quick to pass judgement on others without really knowing the situation? I think, in many cases we are. I could very easily qualify for assistance for both my son and myself. Since my DH makes enough money to support us we don't need it, so I've never applied. 

Here's another scenario, suppose a young lady gets pregnant out of wedlock, yes, it's not too smart, but face it, it happens and has always happened, now, this young lady tries to get a job after the guy who gets her pregnant leaves, but she is too far along in her pregnancy, so no one will hire here. Her family has disowned her because of their Christian principals. This lady is now living in her car. Would she be an acceptable candidate to those on this forum to recieve assistance?


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## shanzone2001 (Dec 3, 2009)

Sonshine said:


> I guess that's my point. Does the system get abused by some? Of course. But, are we, as a people, too quick to pass judgement on others without really knowing the situation? I think, in many cases we are. I could very easily qualify for assistance for both my son and myself. Since my DH makes enough money to support us we don't need it, so I've never applied.
> 
> Here's another scenario, suppose a young lady gets pregnant out of wedlock, yes, it's not too smart, but face it, it happens and has always happened, now, this young lady tries to get a job after the guy who gets her pregnant leaves, but she is too far along in her pregnancy, so no one will hire here. Her family has disowned her because of their Christian principals. This lady is now living in her car. Would she be an acceptable candidate to those on this forum to recieve assistance?


Temporary, yes. As a lifestyle, no.


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

> The reason I asked is because so many speak of temporary help, but there are those who are disabled that need more than just temporary help.


No one is trying to condemn ANYONE who *truly needs the help*.
The frustration is directed at those who ABUSE the system, and NO ONE ELSE.

Some seem to be working really hard at being offended, when it doesn't apply *to them *at all


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## shanzone2001 (Dec 3, 2009)

There was just a story on the news about the millions of California "welfare dollars" that have been spent on cruises, Hawaiian vacations, trips to Reno, etc.
THAT is the root of the problem- abuse of the system.


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## Laura Zone 5 (Jan 13, 2010)

Bearfootfarm said:


> No one is trying to condemn ANYONE who *truly needs the help*.
> The frustration is directed at those who ABUSE the system, and NO ONE ELSE.
> 
> Some seem to be working really hard at being offended, when it doesn't apply *to them *at all



I hear you loud and clear.
If everyone would 'read' not skim, they would hear too.
Sheesh.
This has been repeated time and time again, and still people want to get their feelings hurt and flip out......

I have tried to explain my point on another thread 6 ways into next Sunday, with bold type, underlines, larger print, and I still get the "holy scolding" from some!! 

What you say here and what Shanzone2001 has so patiently explained is clear, if people want to remove their emotions and their quick defense and just read........


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## MJsLady (Aug 16, 2006)

OK I am gonna ask this here, because it seems to fit. In the other thread, some one called a hissy, this room and folks posting in it seem to be looked down on.
Why?
In this thread at least I have seen very little rudeness. Most are direct statements but not much name calling or what ever.

I notice this in most threads I read. Folks are blunt but for the most part rational and calm, so why the attitude against this room elsewhere?

Something that concerns me about the many on welfare, what happens to them when the stuff hits the fan and there is no more gov aid and they have no back up plan? I already have one homeless dude living with me and am paying his way until he finds work (he is working on my home until then) What happens though when there are 1000s of them?


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## MJsLady (Aug 16, 2006)

As far the the military goes, it is a disgrace the gov can support illegals and drug addicts but yet can not find a way to pay them well.

They and their families I would GLADLY support.


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## beaglebiz (Aug 5, 2008)

MJsLady said:


> As far the the military goes, it is a disgrace the gov can support illegals and drug addicts but yet can not find a way to pay them well.
> 
> They and their families I would GLADLY support.


Yes times a hundred. 
It is a shame our military is paid so little


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## Old John (May 27, 2004)

Well. generally I do try to be as Non-judgemental as I can, on just about everything.
There are many situations, that I have had the Good Fortune not to be dropped into.
There are a lot of Good Folks that Need Some Help, from time to time, due to all kinds of things. And, I don't begrudge anyone a hand up. I had a friend once when I needed one.

Everyone is not equipped to make the right Decisions, when they are needed. And, I have to say, Sometimes I think it's simply a Matter of Luck. I've been Lucky.

I do resent the Illegals coming into this Great country and Getting all the Benefits they can soak up. However I've noticed that a lot of those Illegals are good, solid Hard-Working men & women with good strrong Values. And, I can understand their wanting to
better themselves, for the sake of their Families. But, It is Illegal. It's a hard Question for me. There is Good and Bad, in that Situation, as there is in many.

Sorry about my "ramblings". I guess I'm just trying the say, "Give a guy a break, once in awhile. Sometimes it'll come back to you "in Hearts", many times over."
Don't mind me.........


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## Sonshine (Jul 27, 2007)

Old John said:


> Well. generally I do try to be as Non-judgemental as I can, on just about everything.
> There are many situations, that I have had the Good Fortune not to be dropped into.
> There are a lot of Good Folks that Need Some Help, from time to time, due to all kinds of things. And, I don't begrudge anyone a hand up. I had a friend once when I needed one.
> 
> ...


Very good post. I've also needed a hand up a couple of times in my life. Never been on welfare, but have lived in my car because of some stupid decisions I made in life. Another instance that I needed help was through things I had no control over, but fortunately some good neighbors pitched in and blessed me with such an abundance I actually had to place a statement in the newspaper asking people to stop giving because I had no room for anything else. (this was after a housefire)

Each situation needs to be looked at as individuals. I've seen many of the people who abuse the system, after all, I grew up in Illinois. (kidding, so please don't get all up in arms about the statement) I don't agree that welfare should be the end of the road, but a place to get your feet back under you so you are able to pick up and move on.

I guess I just get tired of so many assumptions about people. They're on welfare, so they must be taking advantage of the system. And no, before some of you jump on me about that, I don't know if that is specifically stated anywhere in these posts, but that is what I BELIEVE, are the implications of some of these posts, and I believe others feel that way too, which is why some feel hurt over threads like these.


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## Heritagefarm (Feb 21, 2010)

JuliaAnn said:


> Quote "If you receive welfare, maybe you need to feel a bit more sympathy for those who's paychecks are garnished in order for you to receive those benefits.""
> 
> POTDA.
> 
> ...


Have you tried taking all your money out of the bank and turning it into gold and silver to protect it from inflation?


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## willow_girl (Dec 7, 2002)

> Something that concerns me about the many on welfare, what happens to them when the stuff hits the fan and there is no more gov aid and they have no back up plan?


An even better question is, "What happens to the rest of us?"

We have an economy that rises or falls on consumer spending. The government knows that the surest way to spur consumer spending is to give money to poor people. You will almost be able to see the flames shooting from their pockets! 

Give money to someone like me (middle-class) and ... not so much. I'll probably save it, or invest it (very likely in a foreign corporation). The same applies if you give me a tax cut. I'm not going to do much to stimulate the economy ... sorry! :shrug:

But give money to someone who lives paycheck-to-paycheck (or welfare-check-to-welfare-check), and experiences what economists call "pent-up demand," and he'll head straight to Wal-Mart! The OP in this thread cites a perfect example ... folks who went shopping in the middle of the night, as soon as their allotments became available. Like it or not, those people are doing an awful lot to fuel the present economy.

Now, think how many grocery stores are dependent on customers who use food stamps and WIC.

Think how many other stores and businesses would close if the dollars customers usually spent there had to shifted elsewhere to pay for food. 

Now, I don't like welfare as much as the next fiscally conservative person, but even I have to acknowledge that turning off the tap would have some FAR-reaching ramifications on the economy ... and would affect many virtuous folks who work for a living.


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## Tracy Rimmer (May 9, 2002)

willow_girl said:


> Now, I don't like welfare as much as the next fiscally conservative person, but even I have to acknowledge that turning off the tap would have some FAR-reaching ramifications on the economy ... and would affect many virtuous folks who work for a living.


I agree, WG, but I think that, sadly, that is exactly what needs to happen in order to introduce some stability, long term, to the economy.

I am a huge supporter of having a social safety net for those who CAN'T help themselves -- the elderly, the disabled, the infirm, and those who have suffered setbacks beyond their control. However, I also see a great deal of abuse of the system, and honestly, it annoys me that our family goes without things that *would* stimulate the economy, so that someone who is perfectly capable of going out and supporting themselves takes advantage of our society's generosity. I don't believe someone's hair extensions and $100 manicure benefit the economy, long term, as much as a fully funded school lunch program would, but maybe that's just me. And yes, I have personally witnessed this type of abuse of the system -- far more than once.


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## Guest (Oct 5, 2010)

Tracy Rimmer said:


> I agree, WG, but I think that, sadly, that is exactly what needs to happen in order to introduce some stability, long term, to the economy.
> 
> I am a huge supporter of having a social safety net for those who CAN'T help themselves -- the elderly, the disabled, the infirm, and those who have suffered setbacks beyond their control. However, I also see a great deal of abuse of the system, and honestly, it annoys me that our family goes without things that *would* stimulate the economy, so that someone who is perfectly capable of going out and supporting themselves takes advantage of our society's generosity. I don't believe someone's hair extensions and $100 manicure benefit the economy, long term, as much as a fully funded school lunch program would, but maybe that's just me. And yes, I have personally witnessed this type of abuse of the system -- far more than once.


Tracy, I'm just curious. Does Canada have a welfare system similar to that of the US?


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## mnn2501 (Apr 2, 2008)

Are some people abusing the system? yes
Does that mean we should do away with the system? no, its necessary to help people at times.

So rather than complain about it, how would you fix it? remebering this is a national program and whatever rules you decide have to be able to be carried out nationally.


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## jjgrappler (Jul 26, 2010)

I have no clue why the government just doesn't setup distribution centers around the country. Twice a month have pick ups of food in the amount of dollars that each family qualifies for. Then we all know as a whole that everyone is getting what they're supposed to and it's not cheetos and chips. Bring back bags of flour and rice, cheese food, and powdered milk.


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## Patt (May 18, 2003)

MJsLady said:


> OK I am gonna ask this here, because it seems to fit. In the other thread, some one called a hissy, this room and folks posting in it seem to be looked down on.
> Why?
> In this thread at least I have seen very little rudeness. Most are direct statements but not much name calling or what ever.
> 
> ...


GC is well known here as the land of insanity.  The chances of an intelligent rational conversation here are far slimmer than in any other section of HT. All it takes is a few posts from the resident yellers and a thread goes down in flames. On the other hand you also have to have a thick skin and come in here for the entertainment value because the other half of the threads go down because people get their feelings hurt too easily. This thread is a prime example, OP was rude and offensive, some people got their feelings hurt and now we have 4 pages of wasted space.


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## GoldenCityMuse (Apr 15, 2009)

Food stamps should be abolished, and an expanded WIC [maybe called FIC-Families, Infants & Children] put in it's place.

They are allowed a certain list of specific foods each month, as well as other items, such as diapers, and toilet paper & say soap.

For a family of 2 - 
4# sugar
2 qts oil
10 # flour
3 dozen eggs
2 # beans
2# lentils
1 can shortening
5# banana's
3# apples
8 cans corn
8 cans green beans
3# cheese
4 gal milk [or soy milk]
4# cereal

And so on. They would be given this each month, at far less than the cost of food stamps is.

Similar to the commodity foods program. Then they would not be buying candy bars, chips, sirloin steaks, salmon, etc. One of the worst items is bottled water, what a tremendous waste of money.

However, this is unlikely to happen due to the interests of the large grocery manufacturers and grocery stores, who like the percentage of sales that comes thru FS.


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## Tracy Rimmer (May 9, 2002)

ladycat said:


> Tracy, I'm just curious. Does Canada have a welfare system similar to that of the US?


I'm not very familiar with your system, ladycat -- I do know that it's a widespread problem here in Canada. We don't have "welfare", we have Family Services offices and "Income Assistance". For a two-adult household, the range of benefits goes from about $600 a month if you have no children, to well over a thousand a month if you have three -- and goes up another $150-200 a month for every child over three children. You can see the motivation to have more children. 

We have widespread issues of multi-generational "income assistance" recipients, and benefit abuse. I personally know of three separate families, just off the top of my head, whose grandparents, parents, and now ADULT children with children of their own have never worked a real job. A day here or there to convince the authorities that they're trying, and that's it.

We don't have "food stamps", but there are several programs that kick in based on your financial situation and taxes. Tax rebates if you're below a certain income level, child tax benefits, etc. These are separate programs from what you might call "welfare", though.

More good is done by community run programs than by our government, because the abuse is so widespread that those who honestly need the benefits, and who aren't quite as skilled in how to use the system, never get help. It's sad.


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## Guest (Oct 5, 2010)

Tracy Rimmer said:


> I'm not very familiar with your system, ladycat -- I do know that it's a widespread problem here in Canada. We don't have "welfare", we have Family Services offices and "Income Assistance". For a two-adult household, the range of benefits goes from about $600 a month if you have no children, to well over a thousand a month if you have three -- and goes up another $150-200 a month for every child over three children. You can see the motivation to have more children.
> 
> We have widespread issues of multi-generational "income assistance" recipients, and benefit abuse. I personally know of three separate families, just off the top of my head, whose grandparents, parents, and now ADULT children with children of their own have never worked a real job. A day here or there to convince the authorities that they're trying, and that's it.
> 
> ...


Ok, so the specific details of the program vary between the 2 countries, but what you described is VERY similar to here. 

We do have the multigenerational welfare families who have no work history. They get both food stamps and cash, and they have the tax rebates. Welfare recipients are rewarded for having extra children, here, too.


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## pastelsummer (Jul 21, 2010)

ladycat said:


> But since you are running out of food before the end of the month, might I suggest you follow some of my couponing topics so you can learn to stretch your food stamps much, much further?


I would love coupon tips i cannot seem to find anything for food coupons in my area that are not for flat out junk food. And the msg make my adhd alot worse and i can't function. So anyhelp i can get would e nice



LoneStrChic23 said:


> Personally I prefer to shop late at night when I can. I can go by myself, and if I time it right, I can go when the store isn't busy & I don't have to wait in line for hours.
> 
> Best Wishes,
> Crystal
> http://noodlevilleadventures.blogspot.com


there for along time i HAD to shop at nigth because i had such severe paic attacks in public and at night the store was basically empty. 



Sonshine said:


> Or they may not know how to raise a garden, or they may not have the land to raise a garden.


this I know before i married my husband i didnt kno the first thing about hunting and gardening was way beyond me since i rented and not many landlords will let you do any type of gardens around here


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## Heritagefarm (Feb 21, 2010)

How come no one pays attention to the fact that the USDA spends more money on subsidies than food stamps?


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## JuliaAnn (Dec 7, 2004)

Heritagefarm---""Have you tried taking all your money out of the bank and turning it into gold and silver to protect it from inflation""

Explain yourself, please.


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## Guest (Oct 5, 2010)

pastelsummer said:


> I would love coupon tips i cannot seem to find anything for food coupons in my area that are not for flat out junk food.


Obviously, you have not been following my coupon topics. 

Go to We Use Coupons to start learning all the tricks. It's the best newbie forum I have found for getting people started with couponing.


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## Old Vet (Oct 15, 2006)

What every body is talking about is unconstitutional. Find a place that says the Federal government has the right to give to any individual money to live on. When you read the constitution it says welfare but not the one that is around today. It means welfare of the state not the individual. FDR was the worst President before Obama in his socialist idea.Welfare should be from the state if wanted or individuals.


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## Heritagefarm (Feb 21, 2010)

JuliaAnn said:


> Heritagefarm---""Have you tried taking all your money out of the bank and turning it into gold and silver to protect it from inflation""
> 
> Explain yourself, please.


Well, not to thread hijack or anything... 
I was suggesting that in order to protect one's finances from automatic withdrawal, one could simply take all of the money out of the bank. It would be an inconvenience, and perhaps one could find a way to have a "hidden" account that only had a couple hundred in it.
As for the inflation, silver and gold maintain their value much, much better than the fake, fiat paper money from the US government. The Federal Reserve has the authority to have the money printers print off lots of money for the government. Put too much of that fake money into the economy, we end up with a phenomenon known as inflation, in which the spending value of the dollar goes down, and sometimes up, depending on the whims of the government. Consider this example: I have an old silver coin. One ounce. Early 1900's, it says "One US dollar" on it. I also have (well, not at this moment) a modern Community Dollar silver ounce. It says "20" on it. (It does not have $ on it, rather it is stating its worth in US dollars. To say it is $20 would likely be illegal). 
I could go on, but I hope that answers your question.


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## Guest (Oct 5, 2010)

Old Vet said:


> Welfare should be from the state


Correct. It's unconstitutional for federal.

The Church, family, neighbors, should be the first line of defense. But failing that, it should be the states.


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## Lazy J (Jan 2, 2008)

Heritagefarm said:


> How come no one pays attention to the fact that the USDA spends more money on subsidies than food stamps?


Can you post your data for this assertion? My information shows that food and nutrition assistance is by far and away conumes the vast majority of the USDA annual budget.

Jim


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## Sonshine (Jul 27, 2007)

Old Vet said:


> What every body is talking about is unconstitutional. Find a place that says the Federal government has the right to give to any individual money to live on. When you read the constitution it says welfare but not the one that is around today. It means welfare of the state not the individual. FDR was the worst President before Obama in his socialist idea.Welfare should be from the state if wanted or individuals.


I totally agree with this. I do think the states should have something set up for those who have hit a rough patch. Use to be, people could depend on neighbors or the churches to help in times like that, but unfortunately, in many cases this is no longer true.


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

> How come no one pays attention to the fact that the USDA spends more money on subsidies than food stamps?


If the farmers can't survive, the *food *stamps are worthless.
The farmers are working and providing a needed product.

Many of the food stamp recipients are doing neither


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## Heritagefarm (Feb 21, 2010)

Bearfootfarm said:


> If the farmers can't survive, the *food *stamps are worthless.
> The farmers are working and providing a needed product.
> 
> Many of the food stamp recipients are doing neither


The farmers shouldn't NEED subsidies. It creates a false assertion of cheap food, using taxpayers money to get it. Interesting thing to keep in mind, next time one buys a chicken. How much corn does a chicken eat, how much a cow?


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

> The farmers shouldn't NEED subsidies. It creates a* false assertion of cheap food, using taxpayers money to get it*. Interesting thing to keep in mind, next time one buys a chicken. How much corn does a chicken eat, how much a cow?


They don't GET subsidies unless the market price goes below the support price.

There is no "false assertion" of cheap food since it DOES keep food prices lower and the only ones who benefit are those who EAT

And your claim is inaccurate:



> Agricultural Subsidies
> Farm Service Agency $16,584
> Risk Management Agency $7,033
> Foreign Agricultural Service $1,604
> ...





> Food Subsidies
> Food Stamp program (SNAP) $72,482
> School Lunch and related programs $17,307
> Nutrition program (WIC) $7,704
> Other $452



http://www.downsizinggovernment.org/agriculture/proposed-cuts


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## Old Vet (Oct 15, 2006)

Heritagefarm said:


> The farmers shouldn't NEED subsidies. It creates a false assertion of cheap food, using taxpayers money to get it. Interesting thing to keep in mind, next time one buys a chicken. How much corn does a chicken eat, how much a cow?



If the government has the say as to how much of a product you can grow they must have subsidies. There are limits as how much wheat oats rice corn cotton and such that you can grow. About the only thing that doesn't have a limit on is soybeans. Even now the number of milk cows is limited not by the USDA but by the milk companies that buy the milk. You can grow all the crops that you want to but you can not sell it on the local or national market but you can sell it on the world market as long as you can find a buyer that the state department approves.


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## Wendy (May 10, 2002)

> So rather than complain about it, how would you fix it?


Every person on food stamps should have to pass a drug test. That would be the first on my list. 
Mandatory cooking classes.
Limited items sort of like WIC. 
I know we quailify for food stamps, but through my own hard work I have 3 freezers packed full of food & hundreds of jars of canned items from gardening. I really feel for the people that really need the help. They are lumped in with the losers & abusers. It does make me mad to see someone have cash for ciggarettes or beer after using food stamps for the rest of their items.


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## Old Vet (Oct 15, 2006)

Wendy said:


> Every person on food stamps should have to pass a drug test. That would be the first on my list.
> Mandatory cooking classes.
> Limited items sort of like WIC.
> I know we quailify for food stamps, but through my own hard work I have 3 freezers packed full of food & hundreds of jars of canned items from gardening. I really feel for the people that really need the help. They are lumped in with the losers & abusers. It does make me mad to see someone have cash for ciggarettes or beer after using food stamps for the rest of their items.


If you go by the constitution that would fix most anything. If you go to any politics and try to fix anything they have cooked up then good luck because you will make it more expensive and not fix anything.


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## lilmizlayla (Aug 28, 2008)

CarolynRenee said:


> There are many, many people taking advatage of this system. And there are many, many people who live hand to mouth without getting any government assistance....yet still have to pay for OTHER people's families while theirs go without. Honestly, can you really blame anyone for getting upset?
> 
> If you receive welfare, maybe you need to feel a bit more sympathy for those who's paychecks are garnished in order for you to receive those benefits.
> 
> And as for the late night (or early morning) shopping spree......I'd do it in a heartbeat again if I could (DD18months is my late-night pass time now). Less crowds (well, not on all days as I'm finding out from here), less stress & less traffic going to / from the store.


Many people who work can still receive foodstamps...so are they paying for themselves?


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## lilmizlayla (Aug 28, 2008)

manfred said:


> I went to Walmart early friday morning as I sometimes do on the way to pick up the wife from work. 130 am.
> The place is usually deserted, sometimes have to hunt for a cashier.
> This time the place was PACKED. Inside and out. Isles filled with fat women with their carts overflowing, cashiers busy ,busy.
> When I got to the cashier I asked "whaT GIVES/ wHY SO BUSY TONIGHT?
> ...


you only have one old vehicle and your wife has to work graveyard shift?


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## Guest (Oct 6, 2010)

Wendy said:


> I really feel for the people that really need the help. They are lumped in with the losers & abusers.


Ditto...


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## Heritagefarm (Feb 21, 2010)

Bearfootfarm said:


> They don't GET subsidies unless the market price goes below the support price.
> 
> There is no "false assertion" of cheap food since it DOES keep food prices lower and the only ones who benefit are those who EAT
> 
> ...




Your quote says nothing about crop subsidies...


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## Lazy J (Jan 2, 2008)

Heritagefarm said:


> Your quote says nothing about crop subsidies...


The crop subsidies are a part of the "Agricultural Subsidies" that was referenced. The vast majority of the USDA budget goes to direct food subsidies such as Food Stamps. That is a FACT.

Farm and Commodity programs accounted for 17% of the 2010 USDA budget while Nutrition Assistance was 67%. Here are the actual numbers:

Farm and Foreign Ag Services $23.576 billion
Rural Development $5.266 billion
Food and Nutrition Programs $93.365 billion

The Supplemental Nutrition Assistance Program , aka "Food Stamps", accounts for $61.352 of the FNP. This is almost 3 times as much as the ENTIRE Farm Services portion of the USDA budget.


If you want to see more details the Budget Summary is available at 2010 USDA Budget Summary


Jim


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## Guest (Oct 6, 2010)

USDA budget by percentage:

Nutrition Assistance 70%
Farm and Commodity Programs 17%
Conservation and Forestry 7%
All Other 6%

From http://www.obpa.usda.gov/budsum/FY11budsum.pdf (PDF)


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## westbrook (May 10, 2002)

oth47 said:


> Do any of you folks personally know someone who gets food stamps? Do you know that they have cable tv?cell phone? Fancy car?Internet service? Do you know that they go get manicures and hairdos? Do you know they sell their food stamps?Do you know these things for truth or are you saying what you want to be the truth? I'd sure hate to ask some of you for help in a shtf situation..Charles


ummmmmmmmm.. well, unless some of the people here are lying about getting government assistance, yes I do know people getting government assistance and have Internet!

go back and read at least the first two pages of this thread, they say they are on the dole and are here (through the Internet) talking about it.


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## JanS (Jul 28, 2002)

I read one post from a person (pastelsummer) saying she gets food stamps. tamsam, not sure, he said he (or she) was getting help but did not specifically say food stamps. In my household one daughter gets survivor's benefits, no food stamps, and I couldn't use her money to pay my internet if I wanted to. 

So that's exactly one person in the first two pages. And even there she said her husband has a job, he could be working over the internet from home for all we know.


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## pastelsummer (Jul 21, 2010)

Wendy said:


> Every person on food stamps should have to pass a drug test. That would be the first on my list.
> Mandatory cooking classes..


why should i be forced to take cooking classes when i already know how to cook and healthy meals also? i make alot of fresh veggie stir fry's i buy frozen veggies to add to dinner and as few boxed items as possible because most of them have msg wich affects me very badly. SO why should i be forced to go to classes to teach me what i already know?
however i totally agree on the drug tests. I have seen enough people on fs that spend thier cash (that they get under the table so they dont have to report it) on drugs and alcohol. so drug and urine tests should be mandatory.
As for the limited items who should get to decide what someone else eats? my husbands works he pays into the system so why should someone else decide what i should buy? 



westbrook said:


> ummmmmmmmm.. well, unless some of the people here are lying about getting government assistance, yes I do know people getting government assistance and have Internet!
> 
> go back and read at least the first two pages of this thread, they say they are on the dole and are here (through the Internet) talking about it.


i have no internet at my house i am at my mothers or my friends now when i post i couldnt even keep my prepaid phone on this month because dh lost his job. So please do not make rude assumptions about people on fs. I also want to add i am setting things up to HOPEFULLY be off fs/WIC completely in within 2 years. Also some people can afford 5-10 bucks a month for dial-up by cutting out something else they dont need. It is a pick and choose thing. 

Wendy I would LOVE to pick your brain on how you got that stock up!!! That is the kind that i want!

Also in case some other people on fs do not know you can buy seeds and plants in the spring with fs!!!!! I just found that out and plan to use some of them in the spring to build up my seeds for my garden, i think if more people knew about that they could actually start stocking up better.


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## pastelsummer (Jul 21, 2010)

Jans thats actually what we are trying to start up is a online thing to bring in the income to get off of the welfare system. so yes in another few weeks (dh is going to work for a friend who will set up our net) i will have internet to start it i am actually excited as i am putting a start onto my plan. But it really depresses me that people think because i get 200 bucks a month on fs that i am a druggie/mooch/lazy bum especially snce i am TRYING to get off of the fs and out of the system i do not like having to accept charity from people.


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## Sonshine (Jul 27, 2007)

westbrook said:


> ummmmmmmmm.. well, unless some of the people here are lying about getting government assistance, yes I do know people getting government assistance and have Internet!
> 
> go back and read at least the first two pages of this thread, they say they are on the dole and are here (through the Internet) talking about it.


Some people access the internet in places other than their homes. My neighbor comes over here when she has to go online for anything. My sister use to go to the Library. I think one person explained the only reason they have the internet is because she is going to school trying to better herself in order to find a job.


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## pastelsummer (Jul 21, 2010)

ladycat said:


> Correct. It's unconstitutional for federal.
> 
> The Church, family, neighbors, should be the first line of defense. But failing that, it should be the states.


i love my church my pastor found out what happened with dh job. he told me and dh to hit the church pantry on sunday and take what we need and what we can use. And when my friend were paying for homestudies to adopt thier foster boys the church completely refilled thier pantry for them we NEED more church families like that!


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## MJsLady (Aug 16, 2006)

pastelsummer said:


> i love my church my pastor found out what happened with dh job. He told me and dh to hit the church pantry on sunday and take what we need and what we can use. And when my friend were paying for homestudies to adopt their foster boys the church completely refilled their pantry for them we need more church families like that!



amen!!!!!!


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## Lizza (Nov 30, 2005)

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/Midni...6.html?x=0&sec=topStories&pos=9&asset=&ccode=

Just saw this article


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## Lizza (Nov 30, 2005)

I read this blog a lot and saw this blog post. What's the math, more then double to corporate welfare?:

This is Mark's Daily Apple "Real Welfare Queens"


_55 Billion Goes to:_
School lunch & breakfast programs
WIC (Women, Infants, & Children)
Food subsidies
Food stamps
Nutrition education
Other food and health programs

_127 Billion Goes to:_
Corporate funding (direct & indirect)
Grants to Fortune 500 companies
Big Agra subsidies (including sugar)

http://www.marksdailyapple.com/welfare-queens/


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

> Your quote says *nothing about crop subsidies*...


Then you didn't read *and* comprehend what it said
I can lead you to facts but I can't make you think



> What's the math, more then double to corporate welfare


The claim was about the* USDA's *budget
A biased BLOG isn't a credible source


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## Wendy (May 10, 2002)

> why should i be forced to take cooking classes when i already know how to cook and healthy meals also? i make alot of fresh veggie stir fry's i buy frozen veggies to add to dinner and as few boxed items as possible because most of them have msg wich affects me very badly. SO why should i be forced to go to classes to teach me what i already know?
> however i totally agree on the drug tests. I have seen enough people on fs that spend thier cash (that they get under the table so they dont have to report it) on drugs and alcohol. so drug and urine tests should be mandatory.
> As for the limited items who should get to decide what someone else eats? my husbands works he pays into the system so why should someone else decide what i should buy?
> 
> ...


But see, you are in the minority. Once again getting lumped with the losers & abusers. If you were to attend a cooking class, they would right away see you know what you are doing & could send you on your way. It's easy to spot someone that doesn't have a clue how to cook if you get them in a kitchen.  As far as allowing only certain items, I still think that is a good idea. The fs allowance would go much farther if people would buy ingredients & not prepackaged stuff. Once again, not saying you do this, but a lot of them do. 

Feel free to pick my brain anytime. Last year my husband made less than $23,000.00. It was kind of rough, but we always have plenty of food. I just took a huge box of pears to the food pantry & also take excess eggs there when I have them. I donated 70 dozen eggs this spring when the hens were laying good. That was over several weeks. I will not allow my kids to be hungry & work hard to keep plenty on hand. I am picking up a pig this week. We just had half a beef done & I butchered 100 chickens & put them in the freezer along with rabbits we raise. It's sometimes hard to come up with the money, but buying your meat on the hoof & getting it butchered is way cheaper in the long run. Our beef ended up costing us right around $2.00 per pound. We put 350 lbs. of meat in the freezer. Roasts, steaks, burger, etc. Cuts we could never afford at the grocery. I buy most things in bulk. Once again, more money up front, but way cheaper in the long run. Once you get your stockpile, you just replace stuff as needed.


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## Haven (Aug 16, 2010)

pastelsummer said:


> But it really depresses me that people think because i get 200 bucks a month on fs that i am a druggie/mooch/lazy bum especially snce i am TRYING to get off of the fs and out of the system i do not like having to accept charity from people.


I don't think anyone here is judging you that way at all. Some people really do need help.

I have personally only known a few people who have received assistance and unfortunately all of them have been lazy losers.

1 - An ex bf's brother and his live in gf who had 3 kids by the time they were 22. Neither worked, they lived for free in their father's apt and smoked pot all day long. The guy finally got a job eventually but got fired for smoking weed on a break, then quickly cried to the union to get his job back. They put him to work standing outside of non union stores with picket signs and would be sitting in his car smoking and sleeping instead of "working". Apperently standing there holding a sign was far to much work for him to handle...

Their kids are now in their teens with no father and getting ready to repeat the cycle with the girls being sleezy and boy crazy; they will most likely end up being prego before they graduate.

2 - A cousin who flat out told me that her goal in life was to get married so she didn't have to work. She got prego right out of highschool and flat out told me "I;m trying to get married here!" when we were discussing the pregnancy. He left her and she went on welfare. Her mother once bought her a big bag of really nice clothes for the baby at a thrift store and she threw a fit. She told her mother she would never put used clothes on her baby, and tossed the whole bag into a parking lot.

3 - Two other cousins who have a litter of kids between them from diffferent fathers. The male has fathered kids and abandoned them. Both have lived their entire lives on welfare, worked for very short periods until they are able to collect unemployment, then find ways to lose their jobs, get fired, etc. Rinse and repeat. Both of them do drugs, and are milking my elderly grandfathers estate dry before he passes and using his pain pills. They both also limp around telling everyone who will listen how crippled they are with bad backs and have been doing this since they were in their 20s to collect benefits and pills i'm sure.


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## Daddyof4 (Jan 5, 2004)

I've posted on here about a line being held up and when I looked to see what the holdup was it was someone trying to buy a $4 energy drink and some other no-nos with an EBT card. I got blasted for it under the false guise that I was somehow "judging" them as a person. 

My problem is the mentality displayed. My oldest daughter's soon to be ex husband had that entitlement mentality. He called his EBT card his "Ghetto Platinum" card and bought mostly junk food and crap with it. My daughter tried to buy good stuff but he over-ruled her. He wasn't one to even try to be frugile with it. He worked a night time job driving a street sweeper and as a clown at birthday parties. The clown money was usually a couple hundred dollars for doing a birthday party and he pocketed that money without counting it as income. He went out of his way to make sure his income stayed at the level that didn't diminish his entitlements.


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## Guest (Oct 7, 2010)

Haven said:


> <snip>They both also limp around telling everyone who will listen how crippled they are with bad backs and have been doing this since they were in their 20s to collect benefits and pills i'm sure.


Common scam! I posted this almost a year ago: http://www.homesteadingtoday.com/showthread.php?p=4127671#post4127671



Daddyof4 said:


> I've posted on here about a line being held up and when I looked to see what the holdup was it was someone trying to buy a $4 energy drink and some other no-nos with an EBT card. I got blasted for it under the false guise that I was somehow "judging" them as a person.
> 
> <snip>The clown money was usually a couple hundred dollars for doing a birthday party and he pocketed that money without counting it as income. He went out of his way to make sure his income stayed at the level that didn't diminish his entitlements.


I get judged too. I also post things that are the absolute truth and some people don't believe me. 'Tis the nature of the forum beast.

As for the unreported income, oh my, some of the things I've seen. I was going to post an example, but kept remembering more and more shocking cases I've seen, so I won't post them. Suffice it to say, there's an incredible amount of welfare fraud going on out there, and an astonishing amount of unreported income.


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## Daddyof4 (Jan 5, 2004)

ladycat said:


> Common scam! I posted this almost a year ago: http://www.homesteadingtoday.com/showthread.php?p=4127671#post4127671
> 
> I get judged too. I also post things that are the absolute truth and some people don't believe me. 'Tis the nature of the forum beast.
> 
> As for the unreported income, oh my, some of the things I've seen. I was going to post an example, but kept remembering more and more shocking cases I've seen, so I won't post them. Suffice it to say, there's an incredible amount of welfare fraud going on out there, and an astonishing amount of unreported income.


These issues could be dealt with easily. The welfare fraud would end if welfare were ended. I would say a five year weaning period should be enough to get even the generational welfare people off the dole. Then replace it with a privately managed fund that is funded with voluntary donations. It would be surprising how benevolent people can be if their money isn't being confiscated by force.

Replace income tax with the fair tax.


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## Lizza (Nov 30, 2005)

I am curious, for those that feel that food stamps should be abolished because of fraud, what about the fraud that happens in ALL of the government programs, there has been a few billion "lost" over in Iraq and Afghanistan and that doesn't even count just over billing but actually "lost" money. Or the horrible fraud and over payments in the medicare system. Should we abolish medicare? or our armed forces? What about the horrible fraud in the corporate welfare system (that is far and away more money then we are talking about for food programs). Should we stop giving Tyson Chicken money to advertise overseas? Or what about the very generous write offs for businesses and corporations. I personally know a business that writes off hundreds of thousands of dollars to smooze clients and get them prostitutes. 

You know, it sounds like I am a total socialist (I know how folks on these boards love to throw around the word socialist) but I am really not. I do know families getting something like $650 a month in food stamps. You know how much money I have to make to equal that?? These are not losers or abusers by the way, just the working poor. I pay taxes and I am self employed so I get to pay some taxes twice! I have to make probably double that JUST to come up with that $650 that they get on their cards without doing anything. Then they get a giant "earned income credit" for being the working poor at the end of the year. I guess I'd rather see a family get food than pay for someones prostitute that can afford to pay for it themselves. I would like to see a total over haul and a flat rate tax go into effect. The problem with flat rate tax is, of course, if you don't make any money you still have to pay tax on money you didn't earn. So if I have a job and things go badly and I didn't make any money, right now I can write off everything and not have to pay tax on a job I didn't actually make money, but with a flat rate tax, I would still be paying. The flip side is though no one can write off prostitutes.


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## Tracy Rimmer (May 9, 2002)

Daddyof4 said:


> These issues could be dealt with easily. The welfare fraud would end if welfare were ended. I would say a five year weaning period should be enough to get even the generational welfare people off the dole. Then replace it with a privately managed fund that is funded with voluntary donations. It would be surprising how benevolent people can be if their money isn't being confiscated by force.
> 
> Replace income tax with the fair tax.


You would have to divert all the money that would otherwise go to benefits into crime control. Insurance rates would go through the roof (break-ins) and the DEA would have to have a huge increase in staff.

I don't disagree with you, but the people who abuse the system wouldn't just go away if the system went away, they would find something else to abuse, and I strongly suspect that B&Es, theft and drug dealing would skyrocket.


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## Lizza (Nov 30, 2005)

One more side note. I did know an abuser that got food stamps (drug abuser). The only thing I can say about food stamps is that at least the kids got food, they didn't get much else, but for the most part there was food in the house. Those that think there is some sort of milk trading going on, I mean what self respecting drug dealer is taking milk for drugs?? And those that would actually buy milk from a drug abuser, I mean, they are probably getting their own food stamps. Also they have replaced "stamps" with cards (at least here in Oregon) and you use it like a debit card with a pin. Even a drug abuser isn't going to hand over their cards, they aren't completely stupid, everyone needs to eat, even drug addicts. 

I don't have any of the big answers for fixing our social woes and the people at the very bottom of the ladder or why they want to stay there but I guess I am saying that at least the kids have food. Same with the lunch programs, I don't care if a kid just got off a boat from somewhere, giving them a hot lunch, is about on the bottom of my list of worries about what the government does with our tax money.


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## JanS (Jul 28, 2002)

Our local paper did a series of stories on two homeless people, man and woman, both alcoholics. They regularly traded ALL their food stamps to some guy in return for a couple of bottles of wine, sometimes when they were really desperate, just one bottle. They ate at homeless shelters, from garbage cans, and by begging. Don't know how it's handled now with ebt cards but I guarantee it happens. Yes addicts will do without food including food for their children. My own father ate with neighbors, stole food, and probably did other things he wouldn't tell me.


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## Guest (Oct 7, 2010)

morningstar said:


> Also they have replaced "stamps" with cards (at least here in Oregon) and you use it like a debit card with a pin. Even a drug abuser isn't going to hand over their cards, they aren't completely stupid, everyone needs to eat, even drug addicts.


Go to google and put in the search string *ebt card fraud*. Here are some samples of what you will get:

http://articles.sun-sentinel.com/20...ton-fraud-20100610_1_ebt-boynton-police-cards

http://www.northcountrygazette.org/2010/03/18/florida-retailers-busted-in-ebt-card-fraud/

http://fraudwar.blogspot.com/2008/02/ebt-cards-probably-have-done-little-to.html

People actually DO turn their cards over with pin numbers for cash.

And the less honest working poor who can't get food stamps will go to the store with a fs recipient. The recipient will buy the groceries for the non-recipient and pay for them with the card. After they get out of the store, the non-recipient will pay in cash half the value of the groceries.

IOW, the non-recipient will get, say $100 worth of food in their buggy.

They go through the check out line, and the card holder will pay for the groceries.

They get out of the store, and the non-recipient will hand $50 cash to the card holder.

This is extremely common in poor neighborhoods.



morningstar said:


> One more side note. I did know an abuser that got food stamps (drug abuser). The only thing I can say about food stamps is that at least the kids got food, they didn't get much else, but for the most part there was food in the house.
> 
> <snip>
> 
> I don't have any of the big answers for fixing our social woes and the people at the very bottom of the ladder or why they want to stay there but I guess I am saying that at least the kids have food. Same with the lunch programs, I don't care if a kid just got off a boat from somewhere, giving them a hot lunch, is about on the bottom of my list of worries about what the government does with our tax money.


You'd be shocked to know how many families getting food stamps are not feeding their children sufficient food.



JanS said:


> Our local paper did a series of stories on two homeless people, man and woman, both alcoholics. They regularly traded ALL their food stamps to some guy in return for a couple of bottles of wine, sometimes when they were really desperate, just one bottle. They ate at homeless shelters, from garbage cans, and by begging. Don't know how it's handled now with ebt cards but I guarantee it happens. Yes addicts will do without food including food for their children. My own father ate with neighbors, stole food, and probably did other things he wouldn't tell me.


Ome family I dealt with first hand was actually a working poor family. But they were not honest. Mom and Dad both worked part time for minimum wage, and kept their salary low enough to get food stamps.

They did not use drugs (except pot), but they drank like fish. On food stamp day, they sold their food stamps and/or took another couple shopping as I described above. They kept NO fs for themselves. They spent ALL of the money they got for the fs and bought beer and whiskey.

They did not feed their kids at all on school days, as the children got free lunches.

On weekends and summertime, they fed the kids ONE meal a day of the cheapest stuff they could buy (mac&cheese, ramen noodles, etc), or whatever they got in the food boxes from the church pantry.

About those food boxes, mom and dad picked the best stuff out for themselves. What they didn't like went into that one meal a day for the kids.

Those parents BRAGGED about the way they treated the kids, like they thought it was cute or something.

I turned the family into CPS a couple times, and other neighbors did, too, but a worker would come out, and question the kids in the living room with the parents there. The kids were too scared to admit anything, so nothing ever got done.

I was two houses down from that family. I fed those kids as long as I was there.


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## Lizza (Nov 30, 2005)

Like I said, I certainly have no answers to the big questions on "fixing" our countries (or any other countries) social ill's. I have absolutely NO DOUBT that fraud happens within the food stamp program but I also believe that the majority of the food stamp money is going to the families they are intended for. There is ALWAYS fraud, always, in every program and in a lot of businesses, just because it happens doesn't mean an entire program is necessarily "bad".


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## Terri (May 10, 2002)

For what it is worth, I have never know ANYBODY who used food stamps when they did not have an authentic need for them.

I suppose that says something about both my family and the people that I spend time with. All of the people im my neighborhood work when they can and if they get stamps it is because they cannot find work. A few people that I have worked with have gotten stamps but, as I said, they were working and I knew that they had families and that their jobs did not pay much.

I am pretty sure MOST people are like that, it is only that the cheaters are obvious while the employed Mother is likely to be quiet about needing food stamps!


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## Lizza (Nov 30, 2005)

I never have either Terri, like I said the one person I did know (she was family by marriage) still bought actual food. I have a friend that lives in a very "economically challenged area", even the police don't like to go out there, and even SHE doesn't know anyone that doesn't buy food and this area has a very bad meth problem. 

These folks put fraud around 1-2% which seems about right to me. 

http://www.cbpp.org/cms/?fa=view&id=1183





Terri said:


> For what it is worth, I have never know ANYBODY who used food stamps when they did not have an authentic need for them.
> 
> I suppose that says something about both my family and the people that I spend time with. All of the people im my neighborhood work when they can and if they get stamps it is because they cannot find work. A few people that I have worked with have gotten stamps but, as I said, they were working and I knew that they had families and that their jobs did not pay much.
> 
> I am pretty sure MOST people are like that, it is only that the cheaters are obvious while the employed Mother is likely to be quiet about needing food stamps!


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## Guest (Oct 7, 2010)

> These folks put fraud around 1-2% which seems about right to me.


 Live for a while in a welfare neighborhood and you'll think that figure is very low.

Especially if, like me, you've lived most of your life around poor people, many of whom are less than honest.

A few quotes from:
_Publication: The Daily News of Los Angeles
Date: Monday, December 28 2009 _

...Los Angeles County that has seen an astounding increase recently, going up more than 39 percent in only the past two years.

---

Experts estimate as much as *$300 billion a year* is lost to health and welfare fraud in the United States - about half of it to organized crime. _( note from me--- this refers to outright fraud. It does not account for those who "work the system", and ostensibly qualify for the benefits, such as those who keep all the women and girls in the family reproducing in order to get maximum bennies). _

---

Sequeira said. ".... There is a tremendous amount of fraud we've found in the *small area of investigation *we've done in that area."

---

...welfare case reviewer Gamil Youssef ... alleged he was retaliated against for blowing the whistle on fraud *inside the department*.

---

...By defrauding various programs, prosecutors say welfare cheats can make up to *$100,000 a year tax-free*

Read the entire article here:
http://www.allbusiness.com/crime-law-enforcement-corrections/criminal-offenses/14108062-1.html

The above is for LA County, but it's going on like that in ALL the cities and smaller amounts of fraud is happening in many rural areas.


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## Lizza (Nov 30, 2005)

ladycat said:


> Live for a while in a welfare neighborhood and you'll think that figure is very low.
> 
> Especially if, like me, you've lived most of your life around poor people, many of whom are less than honest.
> 
> ...


First point: I have no doubt you live in a bad area but that is 1-2% across the entire US, so I have no doubt there are horrible pockets of fraud, did it occur to you that you live in such a pocket? 

Second point: The 300 billion is mostly HEALTH fraud, as in Medicare by organized crime, should we cut off medicare? No being flippant, should we? There is a lot of fraud, they manage to steal something like a million dollars in one fail swift in a few weeks time and by the time our government realizes it they are long gone. 

I spent a long time talking to a case worker once. She said that on average 98% of everyone on her roles are just genuine honest people, the other 2% were fraudulent on some or many levels. Of course lots of time and money is wasted on that other 2% but should we really make a huge sweeping motion of our hands and wipe out food for the hungry and poor because of those 2%? There are LOTS of government programs that could be wiped off if that was the case (well, most programs I would say). The worst offender I've seen is SSI-Disability, seems like the vast majority are just for people that don't want to work, but there are many people that truly need the disability payments, what to do???


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## Guest (Oct 7, 2010)

To begin with, there aren't a lot of welfare recipients where I currently live, and most people around here are honest.

I _have_ lived in a number of cities in more than one state.



morningstar said:


> should we really make a huge sweeping motion of our hands and wipe out food for the hungry and poor because of those 2%?


If you think that's what I've been advocating, you haven't been reading all of my posts about the subject.


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## Haven (Aug 16, 2010)

I lived in a very large poor inner city neighborhood when I attended college. Everyone paid in stamps at the local store and fraud was just a part of daily life. I was constantly approached by men selling stolen video cameras, etc., and there were men who strolled down the streets going into each shop selling stolen goods to all of the cafe and shop owners...tube lighting, store supplies...whatever the store business owner needed, the men would steal it and resell it. Unemployed men would park their cars outside of stores and provide illegal "taxi" rides to anyone who could pay in cash or food stamps. The streets were filled with unemployed people screwing around on their front stoops all day laughing, gambling, and drinking 40oz beers with babies on their laps.

Personally I think that "1-2%" fraud calculation is 90% laughable..having lived in a low income "hood" myself and witnessed the reality it first-hand.


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## Lizza (Nov 30, 2005)

ladycat said:


> To begin with, there aren't a lot of welfare recipients where I currently live, and most people around here are honest.
> 
> I _have_ lived in a number of cities in more than one state.
> 
> If you think that's what I've been advocating, you haven't been reading all of my posts about the subject.


I'm sure I haven't, there are a ton of posts on this thread! I am guilty of not reading each one :ashamed:


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## shanzone2001 (Dec 3, 2009)

pastelsummer said:


> But it really depresses me that people think because i get 200 bucks a month on fs that i am a druggie/mooch/lazy bum especially snce i am TRYING to get off of the fs and out of the system i do not like having to accept charity from people.



Not everybody judges you and thinks badly of people on government assistance. Like many of us have said, there is a difference between getting a "hand up" during tough times and living on the system as a lifestyle.
Sounds like you are on your way to becoming more financialy stable. All you can do is try your best to move forward.
Good luck to you!
Shannon


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## Guest (Oct 7, 2010)

Haven said:


> I lived in a very large poor inner city neighborhood when I attended college. Everyone paid in stamps at the local store and fraud was just a part of daily life. I was constantly approached by men selling stolen video cameras, etc., and there were men who strolled down the streets going into each shop selling stolen goods to all of the cafe and shop owners...tube lighting, store supplies...whatever the store business owner needed, the men would steal it and resell it. Unemployed men would park their cars outside of stores and provide illegal "taxi" rides to anyone who could pay in cash or food stamps. The streets were filled with unemployed people screwing around on their front stoops all day laughing, gambling, and drinking 40oz beers with babies on their laps.
> 
> *Personally I think that "1-2%" fraud calculation is 90% laughable*..having lived in a low income "hood" myself and witnessed the reality it first-hand.


Thank you for the confirmation.

I've seen what you saw when I have lived in the inner cities.

In the inner cities, 9 out of 10 people get welfare. Of those who do, 9 out of 10 (or more), shouldn't.



morningstar said:


> I'm sure I haven't, there are a ton of posts on this thread! I am guilty of not reading each one :ashamed:


I've posted my views in this and many other welfare threads.

I have no problem with people getting it when they really need it.

If the welfare program could be reformed in such a way that ONLY those who REALLY NEED IT would get it, the entire welfare system would shrink by a massive factor.


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## Lizza (Nov 30, 2005)

Haven said:


> I lived in a very large poor inner city neighborhood when I attended college. Everyone paid in stamps at the local store and fraud was just a part of daily life. I was constantly approached by men selling stolen video cameras, etc., and there were men who strolled down the streets going into each shop selling stolen goods to all of the cafe and shop owners...tube lighting, store supplies...whatever the store business owner needed, the men would steal it and resell it. Unemployed men would park their cars outside of stores and provide illegal "taxi" rides to anyone who could pay in cash or food stamps. The streets were filled with unemployed people screwing around on their front stoops all day laughing, gambling, and drinking 40oz beers with babies on their laps.
> 
> Personally I think that "1-2%" fraud calculation is 90% laughable..having lived in a low income "hood" myself and witnessed the reality it first-hand.


How much of the population lives in the "hood" or "inner-cities"? Would it effect the entire population so much in terms of "averages"? I will take your word that no one in those neighborhoods spent food stamp money on food, personally I have no experience at all in anything but mostly rural living.


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## Lizza (Nov 30, 2005)

ladycat said:


> If the welfare program could be reformed in such a way that ONLY those who REALLY NEED IT would get it, the entire welfare system would shrink by a massive factor.


Same with SSI-Disability but how to do that??? How to do it differently then they are doing? If someone doesn't work, do they really need it or are they just not working? Put an expiration date, like you can only collect one year out of three or something? Seems to me, again no experience, "inner-cities" are another animal entirely and I sure don't have any answers in that regard!

Again, I have a much bigger problem with corporate welfare, at least even the complete morons and drug addicts don't actually have any real money. The same can't be said for the businesses receiving corporate welfare and they by far get a much bigger piece of the pie.


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## Guest (Oct 7, 2010)

shanzone2001 said:


> Of course not all inner-city welfare recipiants sit around and do nothing while everyone else works to support them, but the percentage of those who do is VERY high!


True.

And yes, after you've seen so much in welfare neighborhoods, you do get cynical.

Nevertheless, there ARE honest people in inner cities who really need the benefits, many of whom DO work, and really are trying to better themselves.


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## Daddyof4 (Jan 5, 2004)

Tracy Rimmer said:


> You would have to divert all the money that would otherwise go to benefits into crime control. Insurance rates would go through the roof (break-ins) and the DEA would have to have a huge increase in staff.
> 
> I don't disagree with you, but the people who abuse the system wouldn't just go away if the system went away, they would find something else to abuse, and I strongly suspect that B&Es, theft and drug dealing would skyrocket.


I doubt that you would divert all the money. We are talking hundreds of billions of dollars. It wouldn't take the much money to increase the police a small percent to help. IMO while certain crimes would increase it is my assertion that the vast majority of those on different forms of entitlement might be willing to commit some level of fraud to keep that money train rolling but B&E and the other crimes would be a line most wouldn't cross. 

Plus as stated I believe a private sector charity devoted entirely to helping the needy would immediately be more efficient, better controlled, thus taking exponentially less funds to accomplish what is necessary to get some people who are suffering back on their feet. If my taxes were cut I'd be more than willing to donate even more than I already do to such a fund. the government needs to get OUT of the charity business. They create poverty, they don't improve it.


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## Guest (Oct 8, 2010)

Daddyof4 said:


> Plus as stated I believe a private sector charity devoted entirely to helping the needy would immediately be more efficient, better controlled, thus taking exponentially less funds to accomplish what is necessary to get some people who are suffering back on their feet. If my taxes were cut I'd be more than willing to donate even more than I already do to such a fund. the government needs to get OUT of the charity business. They create poverty, they don't improve it.


Agree, agree, agree!!!!


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## Haven (Aug 16, 2010)

Yikes, my post was deleted. I must of typed the b word. Sorry, I raise dogs so it must of slipped through since I am used to the term being used relating to dogs....wasn't thinking.

Anyways, my point was. When I lived in a large city I would see people begging for cash during the day, then I would have to step over their drunk passed out body on my step to get into my apt at night.

Another very well dressed woman made a career out of pan handling in the business district each day. She would beg for money from from hard working tax payers on their lunch break and I can guarantee she was also on welfare.

On one particularly fine day I was approached by a vey friendly man with a huge smile on his face at the bus stop. When he kindly asked me for money, I smiled politely and said "sorry man i'm broke". He instantly changed his attitude and started screaming at me calling me all kinds of profanities including racial slurs against white people...*happened all the time.*


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## Haven (Aug 16, 2010)

morningstar said:


> I will take your word that no one in those neighborhoods spent food stamp money on food, personally I have no experience at all in anything but mostly rural living.


I didn't say that no one spent stamps on food, but that almost everyone in the stores paid with stamps.


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## MJsLady (Aug 16, 2006)

Well out of my experience, I can think of 12 families. Only 2 used their benefits as a hand up not out and used them properly. Many actually sold the fs or use of the card to get cash to buy other stuff with. (They would go to the store with the person, buy what the person wanted then be given cash after)

BTW, I did not and have not since kidhood lived in the inner city.


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