# Early Entrance to College



## Nature_Lover

My 15 year old daughter Amanda, has a chance to apply to a dual enrollment program and begin college in 11th grade. When she graduates High School she will also receive an Associates in Science.

Missouri Academy at Northwest Missouri State University is in Maryville Missouri. It's a Math, Science and Technology Public University, which is offering a full scholarship. I only have to pay for her food and extras at about $500.00 a month.

This is a prep school for high achieving gifted students.

It's a fantastic opportunity for her to finish her schooling two years early, she wants to be a Veterinary Surgeon. Or maybe a human microsurgeon, using robotic technology. Ha! She doesn't really know!

We have talked about the pros and cons in detail, she knows all of my reservations (she has ADHD and can be impulsive.)

It will mean sending her 6 hours away to live in a High School dorm on a College campus at age 16. 
She has agreed to sacrifice a lot for this opportunity, no car, no job, lots of restrictions. 
We visited the school and got most of our questions answered. After the visit, we decided to take this chance and run with it.

Has anyone here had any experience with Early Entrance to College?

Or sending your kids to boarding school?

I haven't had any luck finding a forum or group online for parents of students starting college early in an immersion program like this.

I'm so proud, and so scared. Any help will be appreciated!


----------



## cindy-e

First CONGRATULATIONS! Second of all, my parent's heart goes out to yours. WOW! That is wonderful and terrifying all at the same time! I have a friend who just sent her 15 year old away to boarding school for ballet. It was the right opportunity for him, and he has done well this year. But she misses him. 

We have the dual enrollment/associates degree opportunity here too. We are considering it. Ours is free except for books and all you have to do is test into the program. Your opportunity would be a moot point for us if we were in your shoes. I couldn't afford the $500 a month anyway. I have an ADD kid and I wouldn't send him away to live without his family there to ground him. But your daughter may well be more mature than he is. IF you have reservations at all, I bet you have community colleges locally who offer dual enrollment. And I bet that even if you added up the tuition, it would not cost you more than the $500/month you were planning to spend anyway. So that is another option. 

The down side of the 2 year associates is that the amount of scholarship money available for the last two years of school is much less. Many of the bigger scholarships are set up for kids with freshman standing. You can get bigger loans for school after year 2, but that is debt. I am assuming that if your daugther can get a full ride into this program, she probably will qualify for a full ride at a 4 year college too when she is old enough. For that reason, in our situation even if we do dual enrollment, we do not plan to take the mix of courses that will mess with the freshman standing. I don't know if you could do that with this boarding school, to opt out of the associates degree, or structure her class load to keep her freshmen standing while loading up on college credits at the same time, but it's something to consider. 

But then again, a bird in the hand... you know she has this scholarship and doesn't have to compete for it. It's a tough one. You know your daughter, and what is right for her. I don't know the opportunity or the child so I can't speak to the "pro's" of the plan. I can only tell you what I have discovered about dual enrollments in general. 

Congratulations to you and your daughter!

Cindyc.


----------



## Nature_Lover

Thank You cindy-e for your help. I had no idea that her scholarship options might be limited after her Associates. 
I'm going to check it out.

In this program it's a set curriculum, all college courses except study skills. 
We were checking out Community College classes when the Academy contacted us. Just beginning to learn about dual enrollment and which credits transfer, etc. I kind of put that on the back burner when we started the application process for the Academy.

She really wants to go to Cornell University for her advanced degrees. I'm pushing for University of Missouri Columbia at least to complete her Bachelor's, if not her Master's too. UMC should offer a full scholarship for her Bachelors if she finishes the Academy in the top half of her class of about 60. 
(I spoke with two graduates of the Academy, and they both stayed in the state for their undergraduate studies because they were granted scholarships. Others who went to Yale apparently didn't get as much help, and signed for $25,000 student loans at the age of 18.) 
We would still be on the hook for books, and room & board. We're trying to get her as far as possible on her grades and grants, before we count on student loans.

I'm pretty sure with my income, we'll qualify for a reduction on the $500/mo. boarding fees, but even if we don't, I can't let it hinder her. We will find the money.

You've given me a lot to think about regarding finances in the future, I never would have guessed that this might cost us more in the long run!
I pretty much had tunnel vision that this would save me two years of college fees. 

I've got more research to do...

Thank You!


----------



## cindy-e

Nature_Lover said:


> Thank You cindy-e for your help. I had no idea that her scholarship options might be limited after her Associates.
> I'm going to check it out.
> 
> In this program it's a set curriculum, all college courses except study skills.
> We were checking out Community College classes when the Academy contacted us. Just beginning to learn about dual enrollment and which credits transfer, etc. I kind of put that on the back burner when we started the application process for the Academy.
> 
> She really wants to go to Cornell University for her advanced degrees. I'm pushing for University of Missouri Columbia at least to complete her Bachelor's, if not her Master's too. UMC should offer a full scholarship for her Bachelors if she finishes the Academy in the top half of her class of about 60.
> (I spoke with two graduates of the Academy, and they both stayed in the state for their undergraduate studies because they were granted scholarships. Others who went to Yale apparently didn't get as much help, and signed for $25,000 student loans at the age of 18.)
> We would still be on the hook for books, and room & board. We're trying to get her as far as possible on her grades and grants, before we count on student loans.
> 
> I'm pretty sure with my income, we'll qualify for a reduction on the $500/mo. boarding fees, but even if we don't, I can't let it hinder her. We will find the money.
> 
> You've given me a lot to think about regarding finances in the future, I never would have guessed that this might cost us more in the long run!
> I pretty much had tunnel vision that this would save me two years of college fees.
> 
> I've got more research to do...
> 
> Thank You!


Yea check this out... http://www.k12.wa.us/runningstart/pubdocs/RunningStartFAQ.pdf 

On page 2 of this document, it talks about how the program affects financial aid. this is for the program where we are. But it is talking specifically about pell grants and the like. This is the document put out by the state about the program here. It doesn't address merit scholarships specifically. But merit scholarships are the same deal, mostly targeting freshmen. A large % of the scholarship money out there cannot be accessed by someone who doesn't have freshman status. If you get the scholarship as a freshman, you can keep it for all 4 years, but you can't apply for it if you are not a freshman in the first place. So instead of getting 4 years paid, you can get 2 years paid, and then have to pay for the last 2 years yourself if you do dual enrollment. That's still pretty good. It's like getting a half scholarship, and as I said, it is a bird in the hand - less competitive. But if your child excels academically she may be leaving money on the table so to speak. In my son's case, if I have been informed correctly, because our system is set up where kids can take 2 years worth of credits, but if they are not across the board, they are still a freshmen (i.e. a kid with 30 credits of math/science who still hasn't had freshman english is still a freshman), he doesn't have to choose between the two. That's why I said a local program might be better for your daughter. She could still rack up credits without losing freshman status, maybe? 

Something to think about. I don't know what I would do in your shoes. It sounds good. There's not much out there that we don't buy at a 50% discount if we need it, and that's what you're talking about. But income wise, if you think you would qualify for pell grants, or she would qualify for 4 year scholarships, it's an issue to consider. 

Good luck.  

Cindyc.


----------



## Lizza

Hi NL, wow, what an opportunity!!! 

Definitely look into the financial aid further but it is very confusing, at least it is to me. Sometimes the big financial package DOES come in the freshman year BUT it is literally only for THAT year (which she already would have done, for free, so that is a moot point). Unfortunately I think parents and kids get a nasty shock when they realize those financial packages must be applied for each year! And those maximum's listed by Cindy, unless I'm reading them wrong, are really a moot point, in that you can't earn more then 270 credits before loosing eligibility for a Bachelors BUT wouldn't you have already earned your Bachelor by that point, or if you haven't you've got some problems (Isn't a Bachelor 180 credits?). Yes, you can't claim the Pell Grants and such as long but that is because you don't need them and like Cindy says, a bird in the hand. I could be 110% WRONG, it won't be the first time!! This is only my personal understanding. Personally, I guess even if my daughters financial options are slightly limited, earning a free AA degree, just can't be bad. Our program by the way pays for 12 credits plus all books, we do have to pay above 12 credits when she goes over-we work the books in! and we have to pay for any summer school she does. (as a side note, this is a good book, at least to get thinking outside the box on financing college: http://www.amazon.com/Debt-Free-Out...2980/ref=sr_1_9?ie=UTF8&qid=1297218613&sr=8-9)

My thoughts, take or leave whatever, I am sure not an expert. I would work very closely with what your daughter wants to do, if you feel that she is ready and if she feels that she is ready. From my understanding from your post she would be in a High School dorm, probably watched very closely. I've let me daughter do a lot with 4H and they are pretty darn well watched, if they know they are taking in a minor for boarding school, it just seems like they would keep track of her. 

But your daughter would be a huge part of that. My doctors assistant asked me a few weeks ago how I handled it when my daughter first started driving (her daughter just got her license) and asked how I handled not knowing whether my daughter followed the rules (in Oregon you can't drive with anyone who is not a relative under 18 for 6 months and you can't drive after midnight), I told her my daughter read the manual three times and would never break a rule, for any reason, maybe for an emergency but even then she might not! She is NOT a rule breaker and has about zero "peer pressure" problems, seriously. My daughter is also 6 feet tall and looks about 22 years old, she could probably order a drink from a restaurant, she carries herself like a much older person. So for ME I wouldn't have to worry about some things that maybe you would (not that I know). Personally, the thought of sending my 14 year old away at 16, wow, can't even imagine it, love her dearly but she could never handle it, on many many levels! You so have to know your own daughter. 

Ok, personally, I would sign her up and send her (if you feel she cold handle it), absolute worse case scenario she drops out, there are worsts things in the world and you could look at a program like mine and Cindy's, closer to home with a community college. I'm assuming they won't make you or your daughter sign in blood or anything, I am sure there are kids that come and leave every year, for the exact same reason. 

Your daughter and mine sound really similar by the way. Mine is also going to become a veterinarian, she wants to work with large animals. She was going to apply to UC Davis I think, mostly because it is on our coast, for all her independent'ness, at this point she does not want to live far from us. The UC Davis program is about $55K a year, so obviously some merit scholarships will need to happen! Honestly, I've never said anything to her but I see her running a department at the University instead of working in the field, but I'll let her find her own way.


----------



## halfpint

Look carefully at what scholarships are available. Both my sons had partial scholarships for four years - only available to freshmen, which paid for a considerable portion of their college. They counted CLEP and dual enrolled courses when they considered whether you were a freshman or not. They both also received several scholarships that were for one year only during several of their years at school, but these were usually small (about $500 - $1000). The other thing to look at carefully is the GPA requirements to maintain the scholarship. At the college my oldest attended, most of the full scholarships required you maintain a 3.8 GPA, and he told me more than half of the students lost their scholarships the first year. I know of two students who lost scholarships there. My 2nd son's first roommate lost his full scholarship the 1st semester that he was in school.

If you think she can get a full scholarship at a college, it might be worth waiting. But if she can get two years free, then anything less than a half scholarship would cost you more in the long run. Plus by starting now, she would be out earning money sooner - if jobs are available.

Other than my older two being dual enrolled while in high school (and living at home), we haven't done any early enrollment. 
Dawn


----------



## Lizza

halfpint said:


> Look carefully at what scholarships are available. Both my sons had partial scholarships for four years - only available to freshmen, which paid for a considerable portion of their college. They counted CLEP and dual enrolled courses when they considered whether you were a freshman or not. They both also received several scholarships that were for one year only during several of their years at school, but these were usually small (about $500 - $1000). The other thing to look at carefully is the GPA requirements to maintain the scholarship. At the college my oldest attended, most of the full scholarships required you maintain a 3.8 GPA, and he told me more than half of the students lost their scholarships the first year. I know of two students who lost scholarships there. My 2nd son's first roommate lost his full scholarship the 1st semester that he was in school.
> 
> If you think she can get a full scholarship at a college, it might be worth waiting. But if she can get two years free, then anything less than a half scholarship would cost you more in the long run. Plus by starting now, she would be out earning money sooner - if jobs are available.
> 
> Other than my older two being dual enrolled while in high school (and living at home), we haven't done any early enrollment.
> Dawn


Thanks for the information Dawn! Were the 4 year scholarships merit based scholarships? That would be really hard decision then, since you wouldn't really know what kind of scholarships you COULD get, possibly, maybe.


----------



## Nature_Lover

Cindy, I didn't realize that I hadn't replied to your second post, 
I'm sorry it took me so long to say THANK YOU!
I checked out your link, and got really confused. Then I came back to it the next day and promptly knew what terms to google to research which grants and scholarships might be affected by her third-year undergrad status. 

You are right, and I really appreciate your help. 
I knew that her chances for a sports scholarship would be null, Missouri Academy doesn't have an intramural sports program.
We're going to have to count on merit scholarships, which will be very hard to qualify for, because of the caliber of the other students in this school, and the difficulty of maintaining her top five percent class rank. Hopefully her grades will be weighted fairly, and she will qualify with them alone.
If all else fails, there will be loans to fill the gaps.

morningstar, thank you for sharing your thoughts and feelings, it validates my reservations, but then again, I really can't let my feelings hold her back. 
You're right, she can always come home and finish traditional High School, if she washes out at the University.

They're starting a new 2 week program before classes begin in the fall, to teach all of these high-performing students (who have always had it easy, and not yet learned study skills because they didn't need them to learn) step-by-step how to study and learn at the pace that college-level material is presented. Apparently, they have a history of higher than average dropouts, and the school is proactively working on getting those numbers down. Using study groups, they will not let anyone fall behind, which is how they lost so many promising students in the past.

My biggest reservations in sending her away are really my doubts about her maturity levels, and lack of common sense.
I have to remind her to wear a coat, put on shoes, go to bed, and get up in the morning. 
^ she's a typical 15 year old, LOL 
She knows this, and that she has to prove to me that she can be more responsible, only time will tell whether she really can grow up fast enough. 

For now we're making plans for her to start college in August.

Thank You both for all your help!


----------



## Nature_Lover

Dawn, thank you!
What scholarships did your sons receive as a freshman that lasted four years?
Umm ... just let me know if it's not PC to ask that ...

(I just wanted to research the equivalent at the two colleges that she is considering finishing her undergrad studies)

quote:
"If you think she can get a full scholarship at a college, it might be worth waiting. But if she can get two years free, then anything less than a half scholarship would cost you more in the long run. Plus by starting now, she would be out earning money sooner - if jobs are available."

You have summed up my dilemma, and I am still researching our options.

The local High School is not a good place to be, I don't want her to continue there if there's any way out. 
However, I don't want to jeopardize her opportunities in the future, for short-term accelerated coursework, if it's going to cost us more in the long run. 

I'm confident that she can maintain the grades to succeed.
I'm not so sure that she won't burn out doing it, if I let her try before she's ready.

You have all given me a lot to think about, thank you!


----------



## cindy-e

UG! I totally get the dilemma! Either decision is gambling with money. Either you decide to take the half scholarship, which is something but could be leaving money on the table - a loss, or you forego it, thinking they should be able to get more, and then if they for some reason stop being such motivated students - then what? 

Wish there were a clear cut answer here... I feel your pain, and I am not far behind you. Free dual enrollment is an option for us for next year. We shall see. 

Cindyc.


----------



## Lizza

Good luck with your decision NL....there are so many decisions and for me at least, so confusing! Let us know which way you decide. 

I, obviously, made our decision already, I wouldn't have changed it, even knowing the increased scholarship opportunities with being a freshman. We did just find out yesterday that OSU does not require a Bachelors to be accepted into the Vet Program, she figured out exactly how many credits you have to have before you can apply (like 97 I think). He said that they are only looking to make sure you could they students could handle the 18-23 credits a term the program required. Anyways, all the programs and all the schools are SO different. Her game plan right now is to get her transfer science degree, take two terms at OSU, then apply to the program in her third term and cross her fingers! If she doesn't get in the first year, she'll just keep taking pre-req until she does . Anyways, don't know if that helps YOU at all but we are learning SO much along the way. (this was in her Careers in Ag class at the community college, the Dean of Admissions into the Vet program came and gave a talk). After she gets her DVM, she can look at options again, if she wants to continue in school or have a practice. That's her plan TODAY at least! No promises about tomorrow


----------



## halfpint

Nature_Lover said:


> Dawn, thank you!
> What scholarships did your sons receive as a freshman that lasted four years?
> Umm ... just let me know if it's not PC to ask that ...


Both of my sons scholarships were primarily merit based based on their ACT scores. Most of the other one year (or one time) scholarships were due to other things, like volunteer work, written applications, recommendations from employers, music accomplishments, and being in the SGA at the college.

For the merit based scholarships, some of the colleges are more willing to give out information than others. At many of the private universities, a set ACT or SAT score gives a set amount. At the public colleges, a set score allows you to be considered for a scholarship, but other things play a part also. We found very few colleges offer scholarships at less than 27 or 28 on the ACT. Here is one scholarship in Missouri that you might want to ask them about if you are considering there:
http://financialaid.missouri.edu/types-of-aid/scholarships/scholarships/curators-award/index.php If you look at this page, you see you can't be considered for this scholarship unless you have at least a 28 on the ACT, are a Missouri resident, and enroll the first semester after high school graduation. Then to maintain it, the student must keep a 3.25 GPA, stay enrolled, take and complete at least 12 hours each semester.

I would look at all scholarships carefully. My son was offered on that was only about $500 more a year than his merit based, but the GPA requirement went from 3.0 to 3.8, and he would have been required to volunteer for the university 5 hours per week and if he lost the bigger scholarship it would not revert to the smaller one, so he turned it down. 

Dawn


----------



## Nature_Lover

Thanks for all of your help, that information really explains how to compare scholarships for the best deal.

Oh Boy, got my work cut out for me! 

Thanks!


----------



## cindy-e

halfpint said:


> Both of my sons scholarships were primarily merit based based on their ACT scores. Most of the other one year (or one time) scholarships were due to other things, like volunteer work, written applications, recommendations from employers, music accomplishments, and being in the SGA at the college.
> 
> For the merit based scholarships, some of the colleges are more willing to give out information than others. At many of the private universities, a set ACT or SAT score gives a set amount. At the public colleges, a set score allows you to be considered for a scholarship, but other things play a part also. We found very few colleges offer scholarships at less than 27 or 28 on the ACT. Here is one scholarship in Missouri that you might want to ask them about if you are considering there:
> http://financialaid.missouri.edu/types-of-aid/scholarships/scholarships/curators-award/index.php If you look at this page, you see you can't be considered for this scholarship unless you have at least a 28 on the ACT, are a Missouri resident, and enroll the first semester after high school graduation. Then to maintain it, the student must keep a 3.25 GPA, stay enrolled, take and complete at least 12 hours each semester.
> 
> I would look at all scholarships carefully. My son was offered on that was only about $500 more a year than his merit based, but the GPA requirement went from 3.0 to 3.8, and he would have been required to volunteer for the university 5 hours per week and if he lost the bigger scholarship it would not revert to the smaller one, so he turned it down.
> 
> Dawn


Yea, my friend who has graduated 5 kids who ALL got full tuition scholarships says that "elite scholarship" level on the ACT is around 32. Elite as in - get the colleges in a bidding war over you and have them go back and rewrite offers if they are not good enough and that is the college you want to go to. I had never heard of such a thing until I met her! But I saw it happen. VANDERBILT (!!) rewrote her daughter's offer to get her to come to their school over the other schools who were offering her money. 
On that note, I think it is awful that so much is riding on something as arguably subjective as a test. This same lady admits that on paper her son looks great, and will probably get lots of offers, but she doesn't think he is mature enough for college yet! 
But that is the reality of it. It really is. UG.

Cindyc.


----------



## greenhorn

I have no advice about the $$ part, but I'm flooded in memories! I went to band camp in Marysville for three years and did my first 2 years of undergrad at University of Missouri-Columbia. I miss Missouri!!!!

Does your daughter have to start this fall or could she go the next year? Could you pull her out of the local High School and let her do homeschool and maybe get a part time job and gain a little more maturity or are there restrictions on the timing of it?

From your description of her, it sounds like in your heart you don't think she's ready to be so far from home. Too bad you can't move up there with her for a year or 2 

Good luck with your choices. And congrats too


----------



## Nature_Lover

Wow, thanks for all of the replies.

Ali didn't qualify for the 'Elite Scholarship' level, she got a 28 on her ACT. But that was in 10th grade, so hopefully she will qualify with her subsequent ACT scores in the next two years.

Now that we've completed the FASFA, we know that Ali is eligible for 100% scholarship and grant funds, so the $500.00 a month will not be a burden.

What a maze it has been, checking out all of the available funds!
I finally started a list of grants and scholarships, then made notes about each one, whether she might be eligible, deadlines, and links to forms and requirements.
That way, I don't research any of them twice after already eliminating it as a possibility.

This has been a crazy time for me, trying to enroll TWO kids in college.

So Ali, who is sixteen, will be starting University in the fall.
And Melissa, who is a graduating Senior in High School, will also be starting University this fall.

Melissa in red, and Ali in blue. Dressed for prom Friday night.


















^Melissa got a $6,000 scholarship to play Lacrosse at her second-choice University, and qualifies for full tuition and fees, with grants and scholarships. <- She wants to be an accountant.










^Ali got in (two years early) with high test scores, and academic scholarships. <- She wants to be a surgeon.

I'm looking forward to an empty nest two years early! ;^)

Thank you everyone, for all of the help and direction.


----------



## cindy-e

you can set up scholarship notifications to come through google calendar. It will notify you of impending scholarship deadlines. I have it on my computer how to do that somewhere. I will see if I can try to find it. 

CONGRATULATIONS!

Cindyc.


----------



## r93000

I have to admit that I skimmed these :ashamed: so if I repeat something- apologies.

I am now 30, so its been a while. However, I was dual enrolled in high school. I started on my Associates at age 16, got my high school diploma at 17, finished my Associates at 18, and then transferred to a University to finish my BS degree. I had the first two years fully paid for (we were close enough to commute). I then used my ACT score and my GPA from my AA degree to "shop around" the Universities. They WILL offer scholarships to transfer students and they also WILL compete with each other and allow you to negotiate. Check out the transfer scholarship info for the school she wants to attend. The schools that I applied to were all eager to get "proven" students- ones that had already completed two years of college work and maintained a high GPA without washing out.

I was offered full scholarships (including housing and books) to two different schools, full tuition scholarships (tuition only) to 6 others, and a variety of different lower end packages. I ended up attending on a Provosts Scholarship and my BS degree cost me $3000. 

So far, in my experience, its the grad work that costs an arm and leg  A LOT fewer scholarships unless you happen to be going into a few select fields.


----------



## Lizza

Congratulations Nature Lover! You have beautiful daughters. 

Glad to know about the scholarship info r93000, we had our first appointment with the University to make sure we are doing everything we need to do. So far so good. My daughter found a program back east that is a dual DVM/PHD program (she wants to continue on to a PHD program after she graduates from vet school). That has opened another can of worms, I'm just not sure she can live on her own 3000 miles away from her family, I told her we can remain open, she wouldn't start applying for another two years (after she earns her BS), so there is time.


----------



## Nature_Lover

Thanks morningstar! Which school has a DVM/PHD program? That sounds interesting...

Ali keeps saying she wants to be a cardiac surgeon, I tease her about being a plumber.
She also wants to be a vet, all her life that was her goal, but she's second-guessing that one right now. I wouldn't be surprised if she discovers engineering or computer programming might be a better fit for her. 

Whatever she does, I want her to be happy. Then I will be happy!

So, in the past two weeks I got them both enrolled at their respective schools:

Melissa, the future accountant, is going to a local private University on a $6,000 Lacrosse scholarship, the full cost of the first year is about $20,000, grants and the scholarship cover all but $5,000. Plus room and board.

Ali, the 16-year-old college-bound freshman, is going 340 miles away to a public University in an early-entrance program, the full cost for everything is $24,000 including room and board in a dorm. The only parent contribution will be $2,700 for the meal plan, and living expenses, clothes, laundry detergent, etc.

Since I am cash-poor (unemployed) I will apply for a 'parent loan' and probably get turned down, then my kids will qualify for larger interest-free government student loans, which will not be repaid until after they are completely finished with school, at that point the loans start accruing interest.

I'll post again when I know more about the student and parent loans.
(or when I talk either of them into applying for more scholarships)

Thanks again, everyone, for all of your help!
I love this place!


----------



## Lizza

ACK!!! I just typed a huge message and poof! gone. Oh, well, darn! 

The one program she was looking at was Cornell. Her ultimate goal is to get her PHD (after her DVM) so it makes sense to try for a dual enrolled program. I also believe Colorado has a dual program but we haven't checked that out yet. 

http://www.vet.cornell.edu/OGE/dualDegree/

How exciting Nature Lover for you and your daughters!!!! I hope you keep us all updated.


----------



## Lizza

One of the pieces of information in my long post that I forgot in my quicky post, was the the dual enrolled dvm/phd programs seem to be essentially a full ride. Basically you pay for the DVM portion, get a small stipend for the phd portion, and then upon graduation the college pays back the DVM portion (guess they are making sure you stick with the program and graduate!). I believe the dual enrolled MD/PHD programs are the same as well. At least as far as I can tell. My daughter doesn't want to be a Medical Doctor but you said yours might. Of course the PHD is really only if your daughter wanted to be a researcher and/or teach at a University (both of which my daughter wants to do).


----------



## Jennifer L.

No advice, just a big congratulations on your girl! Wow, you must be so proud of her! 

Jennifer


----------



## Lizza

My daughter has found these boards really helpful, thought I'd post the link for all the pre-med kiddos out there. 
http://forums.studentdoctor.net/index.php?


----------



## Lizza

How is your daughter doing Naturelover? 

I wanted to update on the scholarships for early college kiddos. My daughter applied to 3 in-state colleges for next fall and 2 out of 3 of the universities consider her a freshman for scholarships. Many scholarships not given out by the universities are also considering her a freshman. She has over 90 college credits and will transfer as a Junior next fall. Just a heads up if that helps anyone with deciding to do early college. We haven't found scholarships a problem. Some will consider them a transfer student and not a freshman but for the majority they are considering her a freshman since she is technically graduating high school in June. If the scholarship or university decides they are transfer student, the scholarship offerings are much smaller; luckily many don't count them since they were acquired as a high school student. 

Good luck everyone! Navigating all the offerings isn't easy!


----------



## cindy-e

One of the colleges we are looking into is George Fox down there on Oregon, and it's official statement about it is no more than 32 hours to be considered a freshman. We have found that to be true more often than not. Maybe we are looking at the wrong colleges! L! Glad that you are finding some that are working for you with the scholarships, morningstar. that is great!

Cindyc.


----------



## Lizza

cindy-e said:


> One of the colleges we are looking into is George Fox down there on Oregon, and it's official statement about it is no more than 32 hours to be considered a freshman. We have found that to be true more often than not. Maybe we are looking at the wrong colleges! L! Glad that you are finding some that are working for you with the scholarships, morningstar. that is great!
> 
> Cindyc.


Hi Cindy! We only looked at public universities, maybe that is the difference? Also she is an Ag student, so probably different scholarships? She applied to Oregon State, University of Oregon, and Eastern Oregon. Oregon State was the one that considers her a transfer student and not a freshman. She might end up at UofO if only because of the extra freshman scholarships. The goal is to have zero debt for her Bachelor's and so far it looks like we may be able to make that happen. She has to do Graduate school to the tune of $25k a year, minimum, so having zero debt for Bachelors is kind of a must. Two years down, two to go


----------



## Lizza

I'm not sure if this helps anyone but after being transferred to what seemed like everyone in admissions and scholarships my daughter _IS_ considered a freshman with OSU, since she received her credits as a high school student. A little annoying because we are scrambling to make sure all the right scholarships have been applied for but everything looks like it will work out. OSU is her first choice since she also wants to go to the Vet school there and she has been attending OSU's sister community college and has been working with an OSU adviser for over a year. So barring any problems, this should be the college she goes to next year, getting the freshman status did help, so glad it worked out. 

Good luck everyone on the many school choices out there!


----------



## cindy-e

morningstar said:


> I'm not sure if this helps anyone but after being transferred to what seemed like everyone in admissions and scholarships my daughter _IS_ considered a freshman with OSU, since she received her credits as a high school student. A little annoying because we are scrambling to make sure all the right scholarships have been applied for but everything looks like it will work out. OSU is her first choice since she also wants to go to the Vet school there and she has been attending OSU's sister community college and has been working with an OSU adviser for over a year. So barring any problems, this should be the college she goes to next year, getting the freshman status did help, so glad it worked out.
> 
> Good luck everyone on the many school choices out there!


That is so great! we looked at 3 colleges yesterday, and to have freshman status at one, you could have no more than 24 credits (even if you were in high school when you got them), for another it was 32, and for another it was 42! The good scholarship money is for freshmen, so you gotta know the policy of your particular target schools. In our case, at two of these schools, my son would get a 50% scholarship based on GPA and SAT scores, not including other scholarships for which he is available. Basically that means that the "Free" 2 years of community college that the state offers us would have costed us a LOT of money if we had taken it! Instead, we are using CLEP testing to get credits but being careful not to go over the line to being considered a sophomore. (And for the record - private colleges are ending up cheaper the public ones because they have more scholarship money to offer and less competition. People assume they can't afford them and don't apply.)


----------



## Lizza

cindy-e said:


> That is so great! we looked at 3 colleges yesterday, and to have freshman status at one, you could have no more than 24 credits (even if you were in high school when you got them), for another it was 32, and for another it was 42! The good scholarship money is for freshmen, so you gotta know the policy of your particular target schools. In our case, at two of these schools, my son would get a 50% scholarship based on GPA and SAT scores, not including other scholarships for which he is available. Basically that means that the "Free" 2 years of community college that the state offers us would have costed us a LOT of money if we had taken it! Instead, we are using CLEP testing to get credits but being careful not to go over the line to being considered a sophomore. (And for the record - private colleges are ending up cheaper the public ones because they have more scholarship money to offer and less competition. People assume they can't afford them and don't apply.)


That's great Cindy, I hope your son gets lots of offers and scholarships! 

I talked to another Mom yesterday, her daughter is applying next year, she is also staying under (I think) 24 credits. She is getting them at Community College but staying under. She is hoping for a full ride from Stanford (based on SAT's and income). 

You are so right Cindy about knowing the schools policy for the schools your own kiddos will be applying for. Also what their major will be and what they will be doing after under-graduate work. I talked to a young guy that was graduating with a bachelor's with $80k in debt, that is crazy!! There are so many other ways to pay for under-graduate studies!


----------



## cindy-e

Well, they are scheduled to take the accuplacer a week from Tues. They will do a few community college classes (since they are free) while protecting freshman status still. 
So, now we have to deal with the community college not really knowing it's own policies. frustrating! 
*I called down there... they said that if I came in, I would have to bring the kids and their photo IDs. So, we did that. Got there, nobody even asked to see them. They registered them without any ID at all! 
*Said I needed to provide transcripts with application... nobody wanted to take them! 
*Said we needed to get a student ID number in order to register for the accuplacer. Nobody asked for the ID number. They just signed them up for the test! I could have done the whole thing from home with just one phone call! 
*3 different people have told me 3 different things about my son and the status of his math class. He has already CLEPed out of College Alg and Pre-Calc. For a regular matriculating student, they would just put him in the next class. They don't seem to know if he needs to take the math portion of the Accuplacer or if he will be treated like an adult student and just placed in the next class! 
*One person said he has to have the CLEP evaluated by the STEM department to see if they could use it for placement, which is ludicrous becauase all the transcripts say is that he took it, and he passed. It doesn't say anything about what was on the test. There is nothing to evaluate! 
Oh well... hassle is the payment I am making for the "free" classes I suppose. 
FWIW,
Cindyc.


----------



## Lizza

Hey Cindy! 

At both the community colleges my daughter attended we had to work with their "high school student" coordinator's. Both times there was one in the physical high school who was actually paying for the classes and both colleges also had an actual "high school student" office with a staff just for that purpose. You need to find that office  They will guide you. There are a different set of rules for high school students (at least there were at both community colleges we attended) and usually anyone outside of these offices had absolutely no idea what I was talking about. Even buying books was kind of a trial because their accounts are set up differently and you had to track down someone that actually knew what to do with the high school student accounts. They also have to meet with their counselors and get progress reports. You as a parent loose all rights once they step foot in college (you can't talk to the teach at all, privacy rights), you have to go through these counselors to get any help for your student, mostly though everyone expects that if your student is attending college then they are old enough to deal with everything else. At least that was our experience at both the college's she attended. 

Keep us updated on your son's progress!!! When will you apply to colleges and scholarships? 

My daughter and I just went through everything last night and as of right now she has everything paid for with the scholarships and financial aid she has already received and most of them haven't even started sending out (most are coming in April and early May). Right now she is at $8,600 and we "think" it will be around $8,500 per year to finish her Bachelors (she's living at home). So a big sigh of relief!!!! The ones she's already received are renewable until she earns her Bachelor's. She is attending Oregon State University, can't remember if I said that  she's a pre-vet student. The scholarship notifications we've already received have only been through OSU and the OSU AG department, we haven't received any other notifications for the other scholarships she's applied for.


----------



## cindy-e

morningstar said:


> Hey Cindy!
> 
> At both the community colleges my daughter attended we had to work with their "high school student" coordinator's. Both times there was one in the physical high school who was actually paying for the classes and both colleges also had an actual "high school student" office with a staff just for that purpose. You need to find that office  They will guide you. There are a different set of rules for high school students (at least there were at both community colleges we attended) and usually anyone outside of these offices had absolutely no idea what I was talking about. Even buying books was kind of a trial because their accounts are set up differently and you had to track down someone that actually knew what to do with the high school student accounts. They also have to meet with their counselors and get progress reports. You as a parent loose all rights once they step foot in college (you can't talk to the teach at all, privacy rights), you have to go through these counselors to get any help for your student, mostly though everyone expects that if your student is attending college then they are old enough to deal with everything else. At least that was our experience at both the college's she attended.
> 
> Keep us updated on your son's progress!!! When will you apply to colleges and scholarships?
> 
> My daughter and I just went through everything last night and as of right now she has everything paid for with the scholarships and financial aid she has already received and most of them haven't even started sending out (most are coming in April and early May). Right now she is at $8,600 and we "think" it will be around $8,500 per year to finish her Bachelors (she's living at home). So a big sigh of relief!!!! The ones she's already received are renewable until she earns her Bachelor's. She is attending Oregon State University, can't remember if I said that  she's a pre-vet student. The scholarship notifications we've already received have only been through OSU and the OSU AG department, we haven't received any other notifications for the other scholarships she's applied for.


Sadly, Morningstar, I was in that office. They are the ones who said we had to have the Cleps evaluated?? Austin is only a JR in highschool and is taking his first pass at the SAT and the CLEP in May and June. After that we will start looking at applying for schools and scholarships. 

I am so happy for your daughter! That is awesome news! I know she is very excited and has worked hard for the opportunities she is getting! That is great!

Cindyc.


----------



## Lizza

cindy-e said:


> Sadly, Morningstar, I was in that office. They are the ones who said we had to have the Cleps evaluated?? Austin is only a JR in highschool and is taking his first pass at the SAT and the CLEP in May and June. After that we will start looking at applying for schools and scholarships.
> 
> I am so happy for your daughter! That is awesome news! I know she is very excited and has worked hard for the opportunities she is getting! That is great!
> 
> Cindyc.


Well that is sad Cindy!!! 

We didn't deal with the Cleps, she was going to do the Clep for Spanish but ended up focusing on attending college instead. She actually ended up dropping the Spanish all together, she may still try to get a minor but she needs so many math and science classes for her Animal Science degree and entrance to vet school she doesn't know if she'll be able to finish the Spanish degree. Hopefully they figure it out for you!!!

I'd love to hear about the progress of Austin, it is a bit of a wild ride figuring it all out. We found a huge local scholarship program at the last minute and just made the application deadline (they don't start sending out letters till May). Finding scholarships and figuring it all out was interesting. My friend's daughter, the one trying for a full ride to Stanford, is also a Junior and applying next year as well. She got over 2300 on her SAT's and was retaking it this spring, she is really hoping for as close to perfect as possible (my daughter only took it once and didn't do great, she is not a good test taker and since she has so many college credits she kind of figured never mind). 

Good luck to Austin on his SAT's & CLEP's!!!!!


----------



## cindy-e

Well, I officially have my kids signed up for running start. And, Morningstar... I stand corrected! I looked up credits students can have and keep freshman status on the website of the school my kids are most interested in and it gave a number. Then at someone's stellar suggestion, I fired off an email just to check. The answer for running start kids is completely different than for regular transfers! Running Start kids can get an AA and 90 full credits and STILL RETAIN FRESHMAN STATUS for scholarships! I'm glad I asked! It doesn't say that anywhere on the website that I can find! However, if I had known that last year, I would have put my son in then. I guess it doesn't really matter b/c between CLEPS and summer school (which he wants to do) he will get a full year of credits anyway. But still... My daughter will get her 2 full years tho, you can be sure of that! I have emails in to 4 other schools ds in interested in to see what they say, but right now it is looking pretty good. =0) 

K. FWIW,

Cindyc.


----------



## cindy-e

Why does this have to be so complicated? *Sigh*... As a twist on the whole discussion, one of the schools my son is interested in does not transfer ANY running start (community college) credits at all. They said it just "bolsters his chances for admissions because it is a more rigorous curriculum than a traditional high school." So he goes to college and gets no credits at all in that case, but keeps freshman status in terms of merit awards. Oh, and they offer the same merit awards to transfer students! So if he waited till he gradutated and took those same classes, at the same college, they would transfer in and would not impact his opportunity for merit aid. But instead, since he is still in high school, he would have to take those classes over at their school! So weird!

Cindyc.


----------



## Lizza

Weird Cindy!!! It is so confusing and each college is different, I don't know why they make it so hard! Also along the way I found out each scholarship is different, so basically the scholarship AND college have to line up that they each accept freshman status, giant pain. 

I am just glad to be finally to the end of it all with my oldest. We accepted all the scholarships and admission from Oregon State and the Ag School there and are sending in our $200 check to hold her place. It was a pain though because like you said Oregon State we thought she was a transfer student till the VERY end (online and one phone call) and we got her admissions letter with a Freshman status but her credits were transferring, so we called and FINALLY talked to someone from a department within a department within a department and we've had an Advisor from Veterinary Program Admissions for almost 2 years! Our final scholarship application for OSU scholarships literally snuck in under the wire for Freshman status scholarships. 

Good Luck! I hope this thread is useful for other parents . It is a giant tangle for students not taking the standard road!


----------



## bourbonred

We've been frustrated by the system for awhile, but you can't complain about your blessings. As homeschoolers I felt we really needed a guidance counselor. My gifted dd started her first community college class in 8th grade. She tested at an adult level in 5th. There was nothing more I could teach her at home and she was too young to go to a college away from home. The only good scenario was to take cc classes. She'll have enough dual credits at the end of her senior year for both an assoc in arts and in science. We're still working our way through the mazes. We've talked to schools on the phone, but this week we will start going to see them in person and see how her credits will transfer.


----------



## AndSoMuchmore

I started college very early through dual enrollment and I loved it. My child is very young so I'll keep my reply brief but CONGRATS! The thing I wish that I'd known about (and this probably doesn't apply to you since you have scholarships) is credit by examination. There are tests that you can take for about $60 that will give you credit for a $1000+ class. I'm not certain if these tests are available everywhere (they are counted in TX public universities) but I could have saved a FORTUNE if I'd known to test out of the basics.


----------



## Lizza

I think you are talking about the CLEP's (or AP classes if you are in a regular classroom?). We ended up not pursuing those and instead focused on early college but they are also a great option to get college credit. 

One more little piece of advice (maybe I've already said this somewhere in this thread!) but you should get an advisor right away at the University you hope to be transferring to. Not every class you take actually transfers and each University has a different set of transferable credits. Especially if you already know the Graduate program they want to attend. The first few terms we were just working on the AA Science Transfer program but once we got an advisor from the University there were many of those classes that were completely un-needed for either her Bachelor's or Admissions to the Veterinary program. My daughter does not have an AA degree because she didn't take everything to receive one since she is really going for a Bachelor's from the University. Those extra Transfer degree classes would have been a complete waste of time. There are many advisor's to choose from so find one you like. Once we signed up for one my daughter would email the advisor her class schedule and she would look it over and email my daughter back that everything she was taking counted. She also helped us pick the right classes (like Calculus, she had my daughter take a certain Calculus class, not just a general one). This of course helps if they actually know the University they want to attend but you may as well get an Advisor from your #1 University you hope to attend.


----------



## cindy-e

morningstar said:


> I think you are talking about the CLEP's (or AP classes if you are in a regular classroom?). We ended up not pursuing those and instead focused on early college but they are also a great option to get college credit.
> 
> One more little piece of advice (maybe I've already said this somewhere in this thread!) but you should get an advisor right away at the University you hope to be transferring to. Not every class you take actually transfers and each University has a different set of transferable credits. Especially if you already know the Graduate program they want to attend. The first few terms we were just working on the AA Science Transfer program but once we got an advisor from the University there were many of those classes that were completely un-needed for either her Bachelor's or Admissions to the Veterinary program. My daughter does not have an AA degree because she didn't take everything to receive one since she is really going for a Bachelor's from the University. Those extra Transfer degree classes would have been a complete waste of time. There are many advisor's to choose from so find one you like. Once we signed up for one my daughter would email the advisor her class schedule and she would look it over and email my daughter back that everything she was taking counted. She also helped us pick the right classes (like Calculus, she had my daughter take a certain Calculus class, not just a general one). This of course helps if they actually know the University they want to attend but you may as well get an Advisor from your #1 University you hope to attend.


good advice! We are trying to do that now. And we have done some CLEPs too. They are good. =0) Surprisingly easy. Mostly we did it so that we can show the level or work we are doing at home. 

K. FWIW.

Cindyc.


----------

