# How Many of you have a concealed carry license?



## pheasantplucker (Feb 20, 2007)

I'm kind of curious about how many folks here on HT carry a concealed piece when they are out and about. I don't mean when you walk your own property,,,I mean when you go into town and run errands. I would imagine the percentage of folks who carry would be higher than those from the city who carry (legally). I do.


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## Cabin Fever (May 10, 2002)

I have a Minnesota and a Utah concealed carry permit.

Wind in Her Hair has the Minnesota permit.

We both carry 24/7.

I think you may be surprised how many HT members carry without any permit who state that they have that right under the 2nd Amendment. I agree with them. Personally, I just want one less court battle to fight if I ever have to use my weapon in self-defense.


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## pheasantplucker (Feb 20, 2007)

I used to carry before I had a permit when I'd take my family on vacation to Florida and such...I am like you. I'd rather avoid the legal red tape. Just as easy to have the card.


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## Ed Norman (Jun 8, 2002)

Some people might have a permit but they don't advertise it. You know, that whole concealed part.


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## Ray (Dec 5, 2002)

I believe all citizens that are firearm efficient, and stable should carry concealed. There are several towns around here where a large number of folks open carry & the local police encourage it. Fine in small towns But in todays world i believe CCW is far more appropriate, with many paranoid law officers that believe their opinions are law. In the larger cities CCW saves many people that are afraid of guns the emotional trauma of seeing it on someone, & still affords them the protection that it will have if an endangering incident occurs. just my opinion, ray


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## Dutchie (Mar 14, 2003)

I can't get a concealed carry permit because I am not a citizen, but I do carry a gun in the glove compartment of my truck. If I have to inspect (I am an appraiser) an empty house in a questionable area or where there is evidence of meth labs, I put it in my pocket.


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## BoldViolet (Feb 5, 2009)

In Georgia, we can carry open or concealed here with our permit.


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## Micheal (Jan 28, 2009)

In most of NYS getting a "concealed" permit is well lets put it this way - it may be easier to walk on water in July than get a concealed permit.........
In fact it may even be easier to walk on water then to get a permit to have a pistol in NYC which is a whole different can of worms.......
My permit says I can carry (not concealed) anywhere in NYS except for NYC - don't figure but that's the way it is........ 

Most of the rules for pistol permits apply to the average Joe/Jane not to those in law-enforcement which has a different set of rules. Also there are possible additional county restrictions that could be added to having a pistol permit.


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## stamphappy (Jul 29, 2010)

Maybe you could set up a poll?


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## tarbe (Apr 7, 2007)

I refuse to answer this question on the grounds that it might incriminate me!

Ooops!


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## huntress4203 (Feb 21, 2006)

My husband and I both have a WA state permit and are planning on getting a Utah permit. I carry my handgun 95% of the time. Hubby doesn't carry his unless we are in the brush or travelling. I have mine in my purse and am still trying to work out the bugs of carrying it there. Would rather have it on my person but can't seem to find a comfortable way to do so.

Gloria


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## rwur961615 (May 24, 2008)

Always in the car sometimes walking around the city depending on the neighbor hood.Florida CCW permit.


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## brownegg (Jan 5, 2006)

I don't at the present time because we can't here legally. However the state is going to vote Tuesday on the ability to CC in Wi. If it passes, i will apply for a permit and carry daily then. I've been waiting for this for a lifetime here in Wi! About time we wised up here.


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## TSYORK (Mar 16, 2006)

Getting mine soon! but i carry unconcealed now


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## InvalidID (Feb 18, 2011)

I eat lead and crap bullets...


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## thestartupman (Jul 25, 2010)

I have a permit, but don't carry often.


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## littlejoe (Jan 17, 2007)

Dang! Your telling me I have to have a permit?


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## lonelytree (Feb 28, 2008)

You don't need a stinkin permit in Alaska.


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## Justin Thyme (Jun 3, 2011)

You know the 2d Amendment should be all the carry permit anyone in the USA needs. Concealed or otherwise.


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## Tad (Apr 2, 2003)

I put my application in about 2 months ago, it is rare here but my county still issues a CC permit most countys in NY are hunting and target only. My cousin petitioned for 10 years to get a CC permit in the next county before they finially gave him one. When mine goes through I doubt I will carry very often.


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## Gregg Alexander (Feb 18, 2007)

Never leave home with out my pistol , had a carry permit for over 30 yrs. Even when working out in the field or yard its on my side


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## FreightTrain (Nov 5, 2005)

yes i have a permit and carry..
here in pa you can open carry without a permit as long as its not in Philly..


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## Madsaw (Feb 26, 2008)

brownegg said:


> I don't at the present time because we can't here legally. However the state is going to vote Tuesday on the ability to CC in Wi. If it passes, i will apply for a permit and carry daily then. I've been waiting for this for a lifetime here in Wi! About time we wised up here.


+1 I can't wait also. There is a free site to get your traing certificate too. From what I heard also a hunter ed card or competing in a firearms compition will also be accepted for training. This does away with the expense of going to a training class.
Bob


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## PossumSniper (May 31, 2011)

I carry concealed, and refuse to get a CCW. The 2nd admendment is my CCW. It's not my gun you need to worry about. It's the neck knife I wear, that'll slip out and cut your ear off before you know what happened.


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## Ohio Rusty (Jan 18, 2008)

Ohio Rusty raises his hand. Yes ... I have both and Ohio and Penna. CHL so I can carry in multiple states. I'm a big fan of small pictols, as in the summer, I can dress to the minimum in shorts and sandals, and still be armed easily. I have two favorites I carry. A Keltec P3AT in .380 (102 grain remington golden sabres) and a S&W Model 360 .357 magnum snubnose, with 125 grain remington hollowpoints. 

There are alot of bad folks out there. I carry everywhere. I don't expect others to do as I do, and I don't condone breaking any rules, regulations or laws. You do what you want, I do what I need to. I refuse to go into a store and be taken to the back room by a criminal in the store and executed because he wanted crack money. I refuse to let any criminal take hostage any of my family members, and rape them or kill them and I could do nothing about it. I could not look at myself in the mirror.

I refuse to let some idiot terrorist with a gun or knife stab or shoot me, my family members or those around me. I doubt if they will use a bomb here, but like the guy at Ft. Hood using a gun, or Cho or any one else commiting murder .... I want a fighting chance. I refuse to be an unarmed sheep.
I want to be armed, and go home unharmed. I carry a .357 as it has massive stopping/killing power in a very small package. I want to stop the threat instantly as possible to protect my family. I refuse to be a victim. For those that have become victims, I'm sorry for your loss and being violated. Now go out and get your concealed carry permit and carry a weapon to protect yourself and family so it doesn't happen again. Home invasions, car jackings, raping of women, kidnappings of children and robberies are happening in this country every 30 seconds or less. It's happening to folks everywhere, and you or I may be next.

I carry everywhere, period. I know well about the 'No Guns in Here' signs posted in stores. Those stores just became soft targets and get robbed all the time. I refuse to be a victim so *I shut up, conceal it deep and carry my weapon.* No one knows, and no one willl know because I don't advertise it in any way.

Lastly, carrying of weapons is permitted and and literally mandated by Jesus Christ. Carrying a weapon for protection id OK'd by Jesus and is scriptual. Read Luke 22: 36-38. Jesus tells us to arm ourselves. If Jesus tells me to do it .... I'm doin' it.

Ohio Rusty ><>


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## Justin Thyme (Jun 3, 2011)

Ohio Rusty- You just did advertise it. To anyone with a computer and everyone on this forum.


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## FTG-05 (Mar 10, 2010)

AL and UT.


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## Danaus29 (Sep 12, 2005)

Concealed carry permit lists are easily obtained. One of my co-workers was checking into getting an out of state permit just so his concealed carry status would not come up on his driving record if he ever gets pulled over by police.


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## Justin Thyme (Jun 3, 2011)

Danaus29 said:


> Concealed carry permit lists are easily obtained. One of my co-workers was checking into getting an out of state permit just so his concealed carry status would not come up on his driving record if he ever gets pulled over by police.


Most states (I believe, mine does) require a CCW holder to tell a policeman in such a circumstance if, what and where he is carrying. If he does not then he is breaking a law and pretty much voids the rationale behind having bowed down, bent over and obtained the permit in the first place.


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## Ohio Rusty (Jan 18, 2008)

In Ohio, if you have a CHL, it is added to your license tag info and drivers license info. If the police run your plate, it automatically pops up that you have a CHL. We also have a mandatory law we have to inform an officer we have a CHL whether you have a sidearm on or not. 

Any one that reads these forums know most of us are preppers and farmers, hunters, gatherers and fishermen. If a perpetrator wants to try to take advantage of me because ofthat knowledge, they DO NOT want to be on the receiving end of that .357. Not only will I blow their guts into next Tuesday .... but if they are close enough, the blast will set their shirt on fire !! ....... Blasted and barb'qued all in a nano second ......
I'm a really nice person overall ... But I am highly protective of the lives and well being of my family. I will personally walk thru the gates of hell to protect my family from harm. And I guarantee ... I will walk back out alive .......

*** Would your Husband or boyfriend lay down their life for you ???? 
Ohio Rusty ><>


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## Stephen in SOKY (Jun 6, 2006)

When I'm making travel plans, one of the first sites I visit is KSP to determine which states in the area honor my CCDW. Then I plan my trip accordingly. While reciprocity isn't a complete deal breaker, I have to have a very compelling reason to visit states that don't honor my CCDW.


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## Cabin Fever (May 10, 2002)

Stephen in SOKY said:


> When I'm making travel plans, one of the first sites I visit is KSP to determine which states in the area honor my CCDW....


I am a member of the U.S. Concealed Carry Association. USCCA members can access a page that shows which states they can legally carry in. The software used to determine this will allow input of more than one state's license. For instance, I have a license from both Minnesota and Utah. When i input my licenses, I get the following output:


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## RonM (Jan 6, 2008)

I have one good for any state in the country..L.E.O.S.A.


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## Bandit (Oct 5, 2008)

We ( Wife , daughter, and I ) all have Mass. Class A , Licenses To Carry " large capacity firearms " concealed for all lawful purposes " . I really appreciate just how many states honor our permits , even though Mass. wont honor anyones .
We just have to make it past NY. ,Pa , Wv. , and Nm. ( LOL )
It looks like if We get Fl. permits , We will be good to go , except for Ny and Nm . 

Bob


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## Del Gue (Apr 5, 2010)

I used to carry a 9mm years ago. I quit. It's so quiet and laid back around this region, I don't see a need anymore.

If the crime rate goes up to where I have to pack heat to go to the wal mart, I'm moving.


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## Justin Thyme (Jun 3, 2011)

Del Gue said:


> I used to carry a 9mm years ago. I quit. It's so quiet and laid back around this region, I don't see a need anymore.
> 
> If the crime rate goes up to where I have to pack heat to go to the wal mart, I'm moving.


Where to?


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## Cabin Fever (May 10, 2002)

Del Gue said:


> If the crime rate goes up to where I have to pack heat to go to the wal mart, I'm moving.


Wal-Mart is the first place I'd be packing. Have you seen the people who shop there! 

*The People of Wal-Mart*


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## Del Gue (Apr 5, 2010)

The only time I have a gun on me is when I have to go somewhere I'm not familiar with.

Most of the time those places turn out to be harmless too. 

I can see the idea of being pre-pared, but, there is a fine line between prepared and paranoid. I'm far more likely to get hit by a drunk driver or slip on an icy sidewalk and die than to encounter a situation in public (around here) where there would be open gunfire. Of those extremely rare instances, The % of them that would benefit from me not only being armed but also participating IN the event is astronomical.

So I'll be a bliss ninny and enjoy my afternoon confident in the statistical near impossibility of me actually having to draw a weapon. 
I still have a loaded one on my nightstand. A little paranoia is healthy.


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## Del Gue (Apr 5, 2010)

Luby's happened 20 yrs ago. We had a similar shooting occur near here in a restaurant, they guy walked in and killed about a half dozen people. But that was YEARS ago, and there haven't been any like killings since. Now and then you get a shooting, but not a mass murder. Just normal human mayhem that happens every 5 or 10 yrs.

Maybe if I lived somewhere that it was a weekly thing, I'd carry again. 
I'd carry long enough to move somewhere else. 

I used to travel all over my own state, and the bordering states with my GF for fun. Of all the years we wandered around in places we had never been, in cities we knew nothing about, we never encountered this "daily crime" horror you speak of. I didn't see it then (the 90's mostly) and I don't see it now.

I accept that in some cities and regions it probably IS a daily issue. I'm not sure why people insist on living there when they have the entire US full of countless towns and cities to pick from. Why live in such a place?

but back to your point. If it makes you feel safe, that's great. I felt safe packing a 9 too. Statistically speaking, to me it makes as much sense as wearing a flac jacket every day, just in case. Some folks who live in some places and regions have no real need for packing heat daily to insure their safety.

Like they say, location location location. LOL

I lived in paranoid fear for a long time. I let it go. I feel better.


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## Cornhusker (Mar 20, 2003)

We live in a very low crime area and I carry always.
I hope I never have to draw my gun, and I probably never will, but I will not find myself wishing I had carried one and not have it.


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## radiofish (Mar 30, 2007)

Cornhusker said:


> We live in a very low crime area and I carry always.
> I hope I never have to draw my gun, and I probably never will, but I will not find myself wishing I had carried one and not have it.


I totally agree with Cornhusker!! And with WIHH, on better to have it with you and not use it, than need it and the weapon is at home locked in a gunsafe.

I have had my CCW for quite some time now.. 
There is no way, that I am going back to visit Detroit, Michigan without at least one of my little friends.. Plus I have been to other very dangerous places in the U.S., within the last few years (not back in the 1990's).










Yes, you can legally fly with your weapons and ammunition in your checked luggage. Even without having a License to Carry A Concealed Weapon.. Check the TSA website, for 'Flying With Special Items'. 










I don't go out the door without being armed, and I do live in a very desireable remote area. Where my nearest neighbors are bears, mountain lions, and the occasional Trespassers that have had a loaded weapon pointed at them. There is no telling what I may bump into when I go around the corner of the house out here on 80 acres in the boonies/ and surrounded by thousands of acres of timber company land. This is where Law Enforcement takes at the very least 40 or more minutes to respond. That was their best response time when my neighbors and myself held several Trespassers, while I was armed with a 'Bayonet Tipped Rifle' and one of my CCW semi-auto pistols last year. 

That is a long time to be a 'Victim", when waiting for Law Enforcement to come to your rescue.


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## brownegg (Jan 5, 2006)

I have to add to this thread. My hanguns are tools that have a purpose. Heaven forbid that I need to use these specific tools for their specifable use. I'm remote too, however I don't answer the door with a gun. I'm not that scared....I'm in a position that I'm never scared enough that I can't be friendly.


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## Danaus29 (Sep 12, 2005)

I know Ohio law requires a CCW holder to inform police if they are carrying if they get pulled over for any reason. I was not aware that you are required to notify police if you have a permit and no weapon. I'll have to do some checking on that. I am not real fond of the idea of being handcuffed and frisked just for having a CCW permit. (not that I get stopped a lot)

You have to notify police if you have a CCW permit _only_ if you are carrying.
http://www.ohioattorneygeneral.gov/...ations/2009-Concealed-Carry-Laws-Booklet.aspx


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## Cabin Fever (May 10, 2002)

Statistically speaking, we'll probably never have to use a fire extinguisher....even tho, we have strategically located five 10lb extinguishers throughout our home.

Statistically speaking, I'll probably never have to fix either of our vehicles while on the road....even tho, I still carry a full tool box and lights in both of them.

Statistically speaking, we'll never be stranded during a severe winter snow storm...even tho, we still carry survival supplies in both of our vehicles.

I could go on and on, but you get the idea.


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## Justin Thyme (Jun 3, 2011)

radiofish said:


> I was armed with a 'Bayonet Tipped Rifle' and one of my CCW semi-auto pistols last year.


Do you have to have a separate permit for each pistol? Or list all the handguns that you _may_ have secreted about your person on a single permit? Do you have to inform the permitting authority anytime that you sell a gun that may be on the list or purchase a new one that, per chance, will find its way into one of those personal, concealed-secret spots?


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## Ed Norman (Jun 8, 2002)

Does it have to be creepy people you need protection from? Here are two stories from this week:

Arizona woman seriously injured in rare bear attack 
http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/06/29/us-arizona-bear-attack-idUSTRE75S8DS20110629?feedType=RSS

Bear nips man in town Wildlife officials track, kill 290-pound ursine
http://www.durangoherald.com/article/20110630/NEWS01/706299907/0/20110629/Bear-nips-man-in-town


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## Justin Thyme (Jun 3, 2011)

I'm not so sure a concealed-carry pistol would have done much more than get the "attacker" pixxed-off.


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## Ed Norman (Jun 8, 2002)

It all depends on what you want to conceal. I'm sure Cabin Fever will be along shortly to show WIHH's pocket cannon.


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## Cabin Fever (May 10, 2002)

Ed Norman said:


> It all depends on what you want to conceal. I'm sure Cabin Fever will be along shortly to show WIHH's pocket cannon.


Do you mean her .455 Casull? ("Click" the video below to watch it)


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## Justin Thyme (Jun 3, 2011)

I suppose if you're big enough you can conceal just about anything but a 50 caliber Desert Eagle isn't just anybody's choice for a CCW handgun.


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## Cabin Fever (May 10, 2002)

Justin Thyme said:


> I suppose if you're big enough you can conceal just about anything but a 50 caliber Desert Eagle isn't just anybody's choice for a CCW handgun.


She actually conceals the S&W .45acp AirLite (26 oz) in the bottom right of this photo.


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## Ed Norman (Jun 8, 2002)

Cabin Fever said:


> Do you mean her .455 Casull?


I meant the 454 Casull, but leave it up to you to have it one better.


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## Cornhusker (Mar 20, 2003)

Wind in Her Hair said:


> really? just because it happened 20 years ago does not make it an irrelevant reason to carry TODAY. In fact, it makes it MORE relevant. Maybe we're overdue a massacre of defenseless people.
> 
> But, I think you have a mighty short memory -
> 
> ...


And those all happened in places where people are disarmed by law.
"Victim Zones" if you will.
The anti gun bunch never seems to understand that gun laws only affect those who abide by the law.


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## Cornhusker (Mar 20, 2003)

Justin Thyme said:


> I'm not so sure a concealed-carry pistol would have done much more than get the "attacker" pixxed-off.


If he's gonna eat me anyway, I guess it doesn't matter what mood he's in.
I'd rather have a chance.


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## Justin Thyme (Jun 3, 2011)

Cabin Fever said:


> She actually conceals the S&W .45acp AirLite (26 oz) in the bottom right of this photo.


What a nice trio of wheel guns. Those are what? Personal defense rounds in the moon clips?


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## radiofish (Mar 30, 2007)

Justin Thyme said:


> Do you have to have a separate permit for each pistol? Or list all the handguns that you _may_ have secreted about your person on a single permit? Do you have to inform the permitting authority anytime that you sell a gun that may be on the list or purchase a new one that, per chance, will find its way into one of those personal, concealed-secret spots?


Well for your inquiring mind: Here in California we are limited to three weapons on our License to carry A Concealed Pistol, Revolver, Or Other Firearm Within The State Of California.










If I want to change what weapon I carry concealed, I just go to the range and qualify with at least a score of 70% or more. 










Then I take the firearm down to my local Sheriff's Office for them check the weapon serial number. Then within 2 weeks I receive an ammedned CCW License, with no charge for processing the paperwork. I do have to pay for the range time, and supply my own ammunition.










We do like our revolvers also, but with a 6 inch heavy bull barrel, they can be tough to conceal even on a big and tall Marine.










Decisions, Decisions - Oh what do I carry, and how to carry it with me today?










My sweetie uses a lightweight revolver, in a designer color.










If I can't drop a bear or mountain lion with my firing a full magazine from my weapon, 
I guess that I could always give it 'powder burns' in the eyes...










Those Trespassers that were caught last year and detained at Bayonet Point, had caused tens of thousands of damages to my elderly absentee neighbors property. So it is not a case of not being friendly, but rather catching several knuckleheaded youngsters that had returned to the scene of the crime after dark.

Any other questions???


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## Justin Thyme (Jun 3, 2011)

Whew....
And thanks for the info.


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## Justin Thyme (Jun 3, 2011)

Very cool. Those pd loads are fairly light for such a powerful gun though. There is something, I don't know, "wholesome" about a revolver though. Isn't there?


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## Cabin Fever (May 10, 2002)

These revolvers belong to my wife, Wind In Her Hair. She lets me shoot them once in a while if I've been nice.

Top: Ruger Super Red Hawk in .455 Casull

Middle: S&W N-Frame Model 625 in .45acp

Bottom: S&W N-Frame Model 325PD in .45acp

The moonclips are loaded with Federal Hydra-Shok hollow points.

With the exception of the Ruger, we don't own a wheelgun that doesn't use moonclips. 

IMHO, every revolver should be milled for moonclips. They should rename "Speed loaders" to "Slow loaders."


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## braggscowboy (Jan 6, 2004)

In Okla., when qualifying for CCW, if you use an Auto to qualify with, then you can carry whatever you want. If you qualify with a revolver, then you will have to qualify with an auto if you wish to carry it. I don't think the rules have changed since its inception.


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## Cabin Fever (May 10, 2002)

Wind in Her Hair said:


> its a .454, silly man. :frypan:


Must of had my .455 Webley revolver on my mind!


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## Cabin Fever (May 10, 2002)

Justin Thyme said:


> ...Those pd loads are fairly light for such a powerful gun though.....


Huh, do you really think so? I prefer a load that is as close as identical to the more economical load that we usually practice with, which is 230gr ball ammo. (we also practice with the Hydra-Shok, but not near as much due to expense). Additionally, the Hydra-Shok chambers well in our 1911s, even the Gov't Model.

I have a box of our Federal Hydra-Shok right here:
230gr JHP
900 fps muzzle velocity
415 ft-lbs muzzle energy

What is the brand and its ballistics of the one you would suggest?

Thanks


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## Del Gue (Apr 5, 2010)

Wind in Her Hair said:


> really? just because it happened 20 years ago does not make it an irrelevant reason to carry TODAY. In fact, it makes it MORE relevant. Maybe we're overdue a massacre of defenseless people.
> 
> But, I think you have a mighty short memory -
> 
> ...


In a country the size of the USA with 300+ million people over 20 yrs, I think that's pretty peaceful, compared to most places on earth.

You also assume you will be in a position to fire back. Statistically even more rare. I don't argue that it is good to do, sure, it's probably wise to do in many places. _Statistically speaking_ you probably want to carry around a combat field surgery kit in case you sever an artery. I guess the odds are better you'll do that than have to draw and fire (and hit) on someone.

My choice based on my living area. It's pointless. 

Over lets see.... 40ish yrs here I have been in public when 2 (two) people have pulled a gun. Both of these loons were businessmen. Both had CCW permits. One was posturing in a local store after being asked to leave (I forget why) and the other loon pointed his CCW permitted piece at ME, over some disagreement about something "I'll shoot you in the head you Ahole" he says. (turns out he's done that to other people). I have to say thats about the only time I've seen anyone pull a piece around here in public.

Not at all an anti gun statement ( I have a ccw and a few pieces) just an observation. Some law abiding citizens grow a 3rd ball when they have one on their hip. lol

Oh and someone robbed the pharmacy YEARS ago, at gunpoint. he got about a half mile away and 3 cops ventilated him in someone yard.

Over 40 yrs.... that's some good odds on the side of peacefully dull.


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## Del Gue (Apr 5, 2010)

Cornhusker said:


> The anti gun bunch never seems to understand that gun laws only affect those who abide by the law.


Yeah I'm not the "anti-gun" bunch, thanks. if you want to carry one, that's your absolute right, gods bless ya go forth and carry.


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## Del Gue (Apr 5, 2010)

Cabin Fever said:


> Statistically speaking, we'll probably never have to use a fire extinguisher....even tho, we have strategically located five 10lb extinguishers throughout our home.
> 
> Statistically speaking, I'll probably never have to fix either of our vehicles while on the road....even tho, I still carry a full tool box and lights in both of them.
> 
> ...


I get what you're saying. but the same way that it doesn't snow here to the degree one would ever need an emergency pack in the car, I more than likely will not need to carry all the time here either.

I could argue that you don't carry a fire extinguisher around with you but fires are far more common than shootings are.

But then I'd just be nit picking.
LOL


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## Del Gue (Apr 5, 2010)

Cornhusker said:


> And those all happened in places where people are disarmed by law.
> "Victim Zones" if you will.
> The anti gun bunch never seems to understand that gun laws only affect those who abide by the law.


Not to start an argument but...

All those examples were in places where a CCW is fairly easy to get.
Co. and Va have easy to get CCW permits.
Fort hood is an army base. They are all armed to the teeth.

Va tech was on a campus, and quite honestly the last people I want all packing heat is a bunch of greenhorn collage kids. The teachers yes. if they wanted to be armed, they surely could have been if the tech school's rules didn't forbid it.

The law in all of those examples, has not and did not disarm the population.
If VaTech's rules dont allow forearms on campus that's on Vatech.

Fort hood, army base. they all have guns. Go figure.

Columbine, thats a public school. if the schools in Co dont allow the teachers to carry, then that's on the Co school system. As citizens the teachers are absolutely allowed to carry.

I respectfully point out, you are mistaken.


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## Justin Thyme (Jun 3, 2011)

Cabin Fever said:


> Huh, do you really think so? I prefer a load that is as close as identical to the more economical load that we usually practice with, which is 230gr ball ammo. (we also practice with the Hydra-Shok, but not near as much due to expense). Additionally, the Hydra-Shok chambers well in our 1911s, even the Gov't Model.
> 
> I have a box of our Federal Hydra-Shok right here:
> 230gr JHP
> ...


Regarding the PersDefAmmo. 
No. 
230gr is nice and heavy. 
The Personal Defense from federal also comes in a 165gr JHPwpost bullet and that was what I was referring to. They do look alike head-on.
I wasn't suggesting so much as commenting. 
It is "Federal Personal Defense High Energy/Low Recoil" 165 gr Hydra-Shok JHP. And it says right on the box "Keep Out of Reach of Children" so I would think it is pretty effective. 900+fps, I don't know the energy. 
From what I read the 165 is not as good a stopper (especially w animals) and that was why I asked.


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## radiofish (Mar 30, 2007)

Del Gue said:


> Not to start an argument but...
> 
> All those examples were in places where a CCW is fairly easy to get.
> Co. and Va have easy to get CCW permits.
> ...


Well I respectfully point out, how incorrect your post is....

Apparently, you have never served in the U.S. Military or ever been on a U.S. Military Installation.

Even back when I was in the Marine Corps, all civilian owned weapons on base were kept under lock and key in the Armory.

Military Weapons unless being used for drill, guard duty, or other activies, were always kept secured in the weapons lockers. During the many hours that I stood Guard Duty, most of the time I was never issued a single round of live ammunition, except only under "Special Circumstances". Heck, even in a "Formal" formation from the size of a Squad, Platoon, Company, or even when the entire Battalion assembled with our weapons we never did have live ammunition issued! Only when necessary was ammunition issued, such as for training or qualifying at the range. 

Yeah, we were all armed to the teeth, I betcha..

Here are some facts on the Ft. Hood shooting. Not everybody that was shot at the medical center and at the nearby theater had access to weapons, when it occured.

My source:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fort_Hood_shooting

According to eyewitnesses, Hasan took a seat at an empty table, bowed his head for several seconds,[12] and then stood up and opened fire. *Initially, he reportedly jumped onto a desk and shouted: "Allahu Akbar!"[13][14] before firing at soldiers processing through cubicles in the center, and on a crowd gathered for a college graduation ceremony scheduled for 2 pm in a nearby theater*.[15]

(*Were the victims armed, no!*)

A shooting victim being transported to a waiting ambulanceAccording to witnesses, Army reserve Captain John Gaffaney attempted to stop Hasan, either by charging him or throwing a chair at him, but was mortally wounded in the process.[16] Civilian physician assistant Michael Cahill also tried to charge Hasan with a chair before being shot and killed.[17] Army reserve Specialist Logan Burnette tried to stop Hasan by throwing a folding table at him, but he was shot in the left hip, fell down, and crawled to a nearby cubicle.[18]

According to testimony from witnesses, Hasan passed up several opportunities to shoot civilians, and instead focused on soldiers in uniform.[19] At one point, Hasan reportedly approached a group of five civilians hiding under a desk.[20] He looked at them, swept the dot of his pistol's laser sight over one of the men's faces, and then turned away without firing.[20]

Base civilian police Sergeant Kimberly Munley, who had arrived on the scene in response to the report of an emergency at the center, encountered Hasan exiting the building in pursuit of a wounded soldier. Hasan turned and fired at Munley, who exchanged shots with him. Munley's hand was hit by shrapnel when one of Hasan's bullets struck a nearby rain gutter, and then two bullets struck Munley: the first bullet hit her thigh, and the second hit her knee.[10][19] As she began to fall from the first bullet, the second bullet struck her femur, shattering it into 120 pieces and knocking her to the ground.[10][19] Hasan then walked up to Munley and kicked her pistol out of reach.[21]

As the shooting continued outside, nurses and medics entered the building, secured the doors with a belt and began helping the wounded.[22] In the meantime, civilian police officer Sergeant Mark Todd arrived and fired at Hasan with his 9mm M9 pistol.[19] Todd said: "He was firing at people as they were trying to run and hide. Then he turned and fired a couple of rounds at me. I didn't hear him say a word, he just turned and fired."[23] Hasan was felled by five shots from Todd,[2][24] who then kicked a pistol out of his hand, and placed him in handcuffs as he fell unconscious.[25]

An investigator later testified that 146 spent shell casings were recovered inside the building.[21] Another 68 casings were collected outside, for a total of 214 rounds fired by the attacker and responding police officers.[21][26] A medic who treated Hasan said his pockets were full of pistol magazines.[27] When the shooting ended, he was still carrying 177 rounds of unfired ammunition in his pockets, contained in both 20- and 30-round magazines.[21] The incident, which lasted about 10 minutes,[28] resulted in 30 people wounded, and 13 killed â 12 soldiers and one civilian; 11 died at the scene, and two died later in a hospital


*Gun control advocates*

President of the Brady Campaign to Prevent Gun Violence, Paul Helmke, said that "This latest tragedy, at a heavily fortified army base, ought to convince more Americans to reject the argument that the solution to gun violence is to arm more people with more guns in more places."[102] *However, Lt. General Cone stated: "As a matter of practice, we do not carry weapons on Fort Hood. This is our home."[103] Military weapons are only used for training or by base security, and personal weapons must be kept locked away by the provost marshal.[104] Specialist Jerry Richard, a soldier working at the Readiness Center, expressed the opinion that this policy had left them unnecessarily vulnerable to violent assaults: "Overseas you are ready for it. But here you can't even defend yourself.*


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## Del Gue (Apr 5, 2010)

Ok I was wrong about them being armed at an army base. 
Seems odd, they dont actually guard the base with live ammo.... go figure.

But the other 2 I was right on.
( I hope)

A short 3 sentence reply would have sufficed. I really don't require much info to know when I'm wrong.


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## Ed Norman (Jun 8, 2002)

Del Gue said:


> A short 3 sentence reply would have sufficed. I really don't require much info to know when I'm wrong.


Dang right. Why educate yourself?


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## Del Gue (Apr 5, 2010)

I'm just sayin a link would have been fine. People tend to dump 5000 word cut n paste replies to things where simple link would do.

No need to get all angry and abusive over it, Jeeze.

I read it, I got schooled. I learned something. I'm happy. 

Question: How does military base policy on weapons have anything to do with the civilian law concerning bearing arms? Fort hood is a victim of flawed military policy, not civilian gun laws.

So Ft.Hood is not a good example for this discussion, since we were (peacefully) talking about civilain CCW issues. if FtHood was in a state where you have an open carry law and no CCW is needed to have a piece on you (open) once you are on the base proper, you are under military rules and you got no right to carry the thing.

So it's a bad example of how a civilian packing heat could prevent a possible massacre. It's a military base where the civ. law doesn't apply.

If I'm wrong, please... educate me.
With a link or 3.... whole pages of C&P tend to make me think I'm being yelled at or something.

So are we back to where I'm right on all 3 now?
LOL



(enough silly emotes there to show I'm not getting all angry and offended?)


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## Justin Thyme (Jun 3, 2011)

Ed Norman said:


> Why educate yourself?


A brilliant and beautifully crafted reply.

(Still haven't figured out that multiple quote thing.)


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## Justin Thyme (Jun 3, 2011)

Del Gue said:


> But the other 2 I was right on.
> ( I hope)


No, still wrong on both.
In both of the other instances, Va-Tech and Columbine we are talking about "gun free" states of mind. Had ADULTS been armed... -And in the USA you have to be an adult to purchase a handgun AND to carry concealed you have to go through more hoops than anyone really cares to- ... then they may very well have halted both of those situations before they progressed, unhindered, as they did. Armed civilians have stopped many such situations from escalating in recent history (the past few years). 



Del Gue said:


> Question: How does military base policy on weapons have anything to do with the civilian law concerning bearing arms? Fort hood is a victim of flawed military policy, not civilian gun laws.
> 
> So it's a bad example of how a civilian packing heat could prevent a possible massacre. It's a military base where the civ. law doesn't apply.
> 
> ...


Nope. You're _still_ wrong on all three. 
The military example is no different from the other two (and every other similar) civilian ones. 
When the people are unarmed/disarmed they become prey to anyone (read criminal/terrorist) with a gun. Look at the Giffords et al shooting in Arizona.
Having weapons safely locked up at home (or wherever) makes them useless when you need them and you never really know when you _will_ need them. Do you? You can't know (in case you considered arguing the point)!
You may not _choose_ to carry your weapon in public (concealed or otherwise) and that is your _right_. Why question another persons RIGHT to do so? 
One of _them_ may end up saving _your_ life.


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## Del Gue (Apr 5, 2010)

> No, still wrong on both.
> In both of the other instances, Va-Tech and Columbine we are talking about "gun free" states of mind.


No, not gun free states of mind, Iam replying to cornhuskers statement that these were all places where the law has disarmed the people, and that is simply not true. Co and Va are both states where anyone can obtain a CCW very easy.

Carrying them on the private property of a school is the policy of the schools not the state.

This has drifted into a very broad area where it was a very narrow one.
he said


> Originally Posted by Cornhusker View Post
> And those all happened in places where people are disarmed by law.


and to that very narrow statement, he is wrong on all three examples.
The laws of the states involved didnt disarm anyone. The places where these people worked did by their own rules. Outside their workplace, they were/are free to carry in those states.

Go look up Va and Co CCW laws. Fish has already made my point for FtHood. 
"all happened in places where people are disarmed by law." is the ONLY statement I was replying to. It is the workplace's rules, not the law, that restricts the CC in these places.

and unless I sit here and do more research I'm not entirely sure on the Va Tech campus a teacher isn't allowed to carry. or a Co school teacher for that matter. maybe they are? Probably not. Most schools have rules about firearms on campus.

But as I said, rules at your workplace and laws are different. Walk out of the workplace and you are allowed to carry (w/a ccw). The law disarmed no one.
Military policy disarmed them at Ft Hood. The state didn't.

I win.

LOL


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## Justin Thyme (Jun 3, 2011)

Del Gue said:


> No, not gun free states of mind, I am replying to cornhuskers statement that these were all places where the law has disarmed the people, and that is simply not true. Co and Va are both states where anyone can obtain a CCW very easy.
> 
> Carrying them on the private property of a school is the policy of the schools not the state.
> 
> ...


Try carrying in any of those places and see how the _law_ comes down on you. Columbine HS and Va-Tech will do nothing on their own, and the last time I looked they were both arms of the state. THE LAW will. It is state (and federal) law that allow these places to abrogate your 2d Amendment right. State (& federal) law that states you cannot carry in these institutions. And teh military is clearly an arm of the federal guvmint. n'est ce pas?

And what's with winning" anyway? We're discussing saving lives, not winning debates.


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## Justin Thyme (Jun 3, 2011)

And I would just mention that the law pre- and proscribes where the CCW permit may be exercised. The requirement of a CCW permit in and of itself is considered by many a violation of our 2d Amendment right all by itself.


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## Del Gue (Apr 5, 2010)

Your rights (none of them) are unlimited rights.

No! I win! Victory is mine!

I wish it would stop raining. lol


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## Justin Thyme (Jun 3, 2011)

Del Gue said:


> Your rights (none of them) are unlimited rights.
> 
> No! I win! Victory is mine!
> 
> I wish it would stop raining. lol


Yes, yes I see, *You* have taken on the mantle of being unlimitedly right. I am forced to acquiesce. 
has the rain stopped? Already?


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## Del Gue (Apr 5, 2010)

mmmmmm the taste of surrender is sweet.

It did, but now its dark. Drat.


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## Danaus29 (Sep 12, 2005)

Cabin Fever said:


> Statistically speaking, we'll probably never have to use a fire extinguisher....even tho, we have strategically located five 10lb extinguishers throughout our home.
> 
> Statistically speaking, I'll probably never have to fix either of our vehicles while on the road....even tho, I still carry a full tool box and lights in both of them.
> 
> ...



Ok, now I'm worried. My grandma sure could have used a fire extinguisher on a couple occasions (I have to remember to get a fireplace extinguisher log). Our vehicles have broken down on the road, usually once a year. We've been stranded during a snowstorm at home a few times. 

Lord I pray I'll never need a gun while driving around Columbus but things look to be getting worse. 

It's not cheap here, close to $250 for the classes and permit.


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## radiofish (Mar 30, 2007)

Del Gue said:


> mmmmmm the taste of surrender is sweet.
> 
> It did, but now its dark. Drat.


Well don't get your hopes up too high on 'The Taste Of Surrender".. Let me do some google-fu tonight using dial-up @ a blazing 28.8 Kbps (since you apparently are not willing or can't do so), and be prepared to have several more pages of info posted to refute your biased and false claims.. 

This Marine, is about to teach you how wrong you are.. 

By the way once again for your limited information - US Military Installations do have armed guards at the gates, along fence lines, and inside 'secured' security sensitive areas'. Under certain rules of engagement, the use of "Deadly Force" is authorized by the 'Orders Of The Day'. So you assumption of the Military not having any armed personnel on a base 'stateside' is totally wrong.

Plus your comments on Wyoming not requiring a CCW license thread over in GC, are 180 degrees from what you are posting here..


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## radiofish (Mar 30, 2007)

Del Gue said:


> Ok I was wrong about them being armed at an army base.
> Seems odd, they dont actually guard the base with live ammo.... go figure.
> 
> But the other 2 I was right on.
> ...


*From your responses afterwards, it does not appear so....*



Del Gue said:


> No, not gun free states of mind, Iam replying to cornhuskers statement that these were all places where the law has disarmed the people, and that is simply not true. Co and Va are both states where anyone can obtain a CCW very easy.
> 
> *Carrying them on the private property of a school is the policy of the schools not the state.
> *
> ...





Del Gue said:


> Your rights (none of them) are unlimited rights.
> 
> No! I win! Victory is mine!
> 
> I wish it would stop raining. lol


Since you hate cut and paste, here are the links to the official law enforcement sites for Colorado and Virginia concerning the prohibited areas of carrying a concealed weapon..

1st here is Virginia.

http://www.vsp.state.va.us/Firearms_ResidentConcealed.shtm

Where Unlawful to Carry


Return to list



Â§18.2-308 (J.3.): No person who carries a concealed handgun onto the premises of any restaurant or club as defined in Â§ 4.1-100 for which a license to sell and serve alcoholic beverages for on-premises consumption has been granted by the Virginia Alcoholic Beverage Control Board under Title 4.1 of the Code of Virginia; may consume an alcoholic beverage while on the premises. A person who carries a concealed handgun onto the premises of such a restaurant or club and consumes alcoholic beverages is guilty of a Class 2 misdemeanor. However, nothing in this subsection shall apply to a federal, state, or local law-enforcement officer.

*Â§18.2-308 (O.): Private property when prohibited by the owner of the property, or where posted as prohibited*.

Â§18.2-283: To a place of worship while a meeting for religious purposes is being held at such place, without good and sufficient reason.

Â§18.2-283.1: Courthouse.

*Â§18.2-308.1: School property. Exemptions to this statute include a person who has a valid concealed handgun permit and possesses a concealed handgun while in a motor vehicle in a parking lot, traffic circle, or other means of vehicular ingress or egress to the school.
*
Â§18.2-287.01: Carrying weapon in air carrier airport terminal. 


Now here are the Colorado laws..

http://www.denvergov.org/Portals/326/documents/ccwinfo.pdf

CARRY RESTRICTIONS 
A permit to carry a concealed handgun authorizes the permittee to carry a concealed handgun in 
all areas of the state except as specifically limited as follows: 

*1. a person may not carry a concealed handgun into a place where the carrying of firearms is 
prohibited by Federal Law,* 

*2. a person may not carry a concealed handgun on to the real property, or into any 
improvements erected thereon, of a public elementary, middle, junior high or high school, 
*
3. a person may not carry a concealed handgun into a public building at which security 
personnel and electronic weapons screening devices are permanently in place, 

*4. a person may not carry a concealed handgun where a private property owner, private tenant, 
private employer or private business entity disallow. 
*

Then for you visual reading, here is the back of the older style of the California CCW License, as to the prohibited areas.. 

*Please note the mention of Schools...*










Now please come back and enlighten me, as how it is the school's or employers choice - as to the banning concealed weapons, and it is not the state's decision...


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## Justin Thyme (Jun 3, 2011)

Del Gue said:


> mmmmmm the taste of surrender is sweet.
> 
> It did, but now its dark. Drat.


Light. Again. You _must_ be all things Del Gue. Are you? 

P.S. What does _surrender_ taste like? Is it sweet, like am M&M? Or sour, like a lemon? Or sweet and sour? Like that pork you get in the cardboard containers from the take-out on the corner. Sort of a sticky combination of tastes. Know what I mean?


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## Justin Thyme (Jun 3, 2011)

Danaus29 said:


> Lord I pray I'll never need a gun while driving around Columbus but things look to be getting worse.
> 
> It's not cheap here, close to $250 for the classes and permit.


The cost of the gun plus ammunition added to that. And time at the shooting range. What are the laws in _your_ state about driving with a firearm? You do have to have that gun first though.


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## zant (Dec 1, 2005)

Cabin Fever-I'm a .45 nut too(1911's and wheelies)...Speer Gold Dots are my carry ammo of choice-best weight retention/expansion,I've found---mainly my own experiments with ballistic gelatin($$$$),phone books,water.I reload so I can practice with Gold dots loaded with Blue Dot to same FPS as CorBon carry ammo.I also only carry 230gr,I'm a member of the heavy bullet/big hole crowd


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## Chuck R. (Apr 24, 2008)

zant said:


> Cabin Fever-I'm a .45 nut too(1911's and wheelies)...Speer Gold Dots are my carry ammo of choice-best weight retention/expansion,I've found---mainly my own experiments with ballistic gelatin($$$$),phone books,water.I reload so I can practice with Gold dots loaded with Blue Dot to same FPS as CorBon carry ammo.I also only carry 230gr,I'm a member of the heavy bullet/big hole crowd


I use the same technique, but with REM 230grn bonded Golden Sabers. I chronographed the real âbondedâ GSs, and reload the cheaper bulk REM GSs to the same OAL and MV with BD for practice and reliability testing.

To be honest Iâd be just as happy with the 185s, but my fixed sights are regulated for the 230s.

Chuck


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## Del Gue (Apr 5, 2010)

Ok.. faced with the details of those states conditional CCW permits which I didn't look into deeply enough.....
You win.

I hate being wrong.

But I shoulda read the details of each state, since I know my own state has restrictions on where your CCW is no good, like the state parks.

but, my position on carrying didnt change between here and the wyoming law tread elsewhere. I said here I don't feel the need to carry here in my area as a personal choice. I'm still all for getting rid of CCW laws on the whole, and have no problem with anyone else packing heat if it makes then feel safer.

You win, I didnt read the details.


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## Del Gue (Apr 5, 2010)

Justin Thyme said:


> Light. Again. You _must_ be all things Del Gue. Are you?
> 
> P.S. What does _surrender_ taste like? Is it sweet, like am M&M? Or sour, like a lemon? Or sweet and sour? Like that pork you get in the cardboard containers from the take-out on the corner. Sort of a sticky combination of tastes. Know what I mean?


The taste of crow and humble pie tastes like sh... 
lol


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## Justin Thyme (Jun 3, 2011)

Del Gue said:


> The taste of crow and humble pie tastes like sh...
> lol


Ahhh grasshopper, the reed bends to the wind but does not break, the mighty oak fights the wind and is toppled. 
Always use your foes strengths against him and capitalize on his weaknesses.
And have plenty of condiments on hand....


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## Danaus29 (Sep 12, 2005)

Well DUH! Of course you have to have a gun in order to get a CCW permit. That and ammo are already on hand and used frequently in the hunting of 4 legged varmints. Shooting range expense for the class is covered in the cost of the class. Practice range isn't needed as it is legal to shoot all the legal (and illegal ones too if I've got 'em) firearms I want on my property. 

Dh wanted to get me something with a lager caliber to use for my certification. I told him I've got 8 rounds (always carry with the hammer on an empty chamber) so unless there are 9 bad guys I'm good to go before reloading. If someone is close enough to pose a threat to me they should be too close to miss. It's not like they are a raccoon size target at 100 feet.


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## Justin Thyme (Jun 3, 2011)

Actually I'd bet that there are a lot of states that you don't have to have a gun to get the permit. You don't have to in mine, for instance. You do need to take a course and qualify with _a_ gun, but you don't have to own one.
You don't need a gun to carry a permit.
And you don't need a permit to carry a gun.


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## Justin Thyme (Jun 3, 2011)

Danaus29 said:


> I told him I've got 8 rounds (always carry with the hammer on an empty chamber) so unless there are 9 bad guys I'm good to go before reloading. If someone is close enough to pose a threat to me they should be too close to miss.


So you'd have to rack the slide and chamber a round first, then?
That last sentence is pretty darned optimistic. Best of luck.

On another note about a year ago some armed felons had broken into the store our 70+ y/o hero lived above. He went down to investigate and they jumped him, knocked him down and were preparing to work him over when he fired his S&W hammerless .38 that was still in his pocket. The bullet passed through one robber and lodged in the second, rendering both hors de combat.


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## Ed Norman (Jun 8, 2002)

I got a permit and they never even asked if I owned a gun or not. None of their business.


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## Cabin Fever (May 10, 2002)

When I took my Minnesota and Utah classes, the instructor brought along handguns (.22s) for the students who didn't have one to use.


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## radiofish (Mar 30, 2007)

As seen on my earlier post with the orange sheet from our local Sheriff's Office, here in California one must qualify with a score of at least 70% using the weapons that you want to carry concealed. 

To me that kind of makes sense, to show that you can handle what you are gonna carry in public. In other states, it is with using the largest caliber that you want to carry, or even as CF posted a borrowed firearm.

I kind of picture one of the little old ladies that are out at the range when I have to go and re-qualify for my CCW, and them only using a borrowed .22LR to qualify. Then getting herself as a concealed weapon a large caliber like .44 magnum from her son, or at the advice of the guy down the gun shop - kind of something like that. 

She may from that point on never fire/ practice with it, have to draw it from her purse/ holster, or even fire that weapon in self-defense. She has it with her, for 'just in case'.. But if she does have to use her firearm, then it will not be like shooting a borrowed .22LR.


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## Justin Thyme (Jun 3, 2011)

radiofish said:


> As seen on my earlier post with the orange sheet from our local Sheriff's Office, here in California one must qualify with a score of at least 70% using the weapons that you want to carry concealed.
> 
> *Sort of like REGISTERING your gun?*
> 
> ...


Gee. This was like reading something from the _Bizzaro-world NRA._ Some nice, basic arguments against both concealed carry and carrying at all. First, register your guns. Then limit what may be owned. Finally, don't trust any of 'those' people to know what they are doing.


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## Danaus29 (Sep 12, 2005)

Here one of the requirements is you have to have a gun, even if it's borrowed, to take the class. Instructors do not lend guns and you can't rent one. It is strongly suggested and really emphasized you need to use the gun you would be carrying if you pass the course. I would like to have a Colt .45 revolver but I don't and they don't hold very many rounds. The handgun I have and use is a revolver so even though I carry with an empty chamber all I need to do is pull the trigger. No you don't need a permit to open carry. I open carry from our house to the property quite frequently. 

I think Michael Douglas in _The Ghost and the Darkness_ said it best, "You took an unproven weapon into battle?!". If you are going to be shooting a bad guy you need to do it with a weapon with which you are familiar. You will be in a dangerous situation and your heart will be racing. Kind of stupid to have to figure out how to handle an unfamiliar gun and expect any accuracy. With my revolver I am familiar enough to be able to reload it in the dark in just a few seconds. I just don't think I would get the familiarity with a larger caliber. Hollow points in a small caliber can be just as deadly as large caliber bullets.


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## Ed Norman (Jun 8, 2002)

If you think a few hours spent in a training course to qualify for a CCW will make you ready to go with your weapon, you are headed for trouble. Spend days with your weapon, and nights. Learn it. 

It is possible to be familiar with and proficient with many different handguns and use them for various situations throughout the year. In the winter, you can hide anything under a parka. In the summer, you will choose a smaller piece. 

I see the requirement to list the weapon on the permit as one more chunk of registration. Say you list your 1911. Then later, an uncle leaves you his 1911. You are qualified to use that exact model on your permit, but not that serial number. Now you have to report your new gun to the authorities. Into the database it goes. Forever. 

Danaus29, if you are carrying an old revolver with no transfer bar safety, you are wise to leave an empty chamber. If it is any modern design at all, you are limiting yourself by one shot needlessly.


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## Justin Thyme (Jun 3, 2011)

Danaus29 said:


> It is strongly suggested and really emphasized you need to use the gun you would be carrying if you pass the course. I would like to have a Colt .45 revolver but I don't and they don't hold very many rounds. The handgun I have and use is a revolver so even though I carry with an empty chamber all I need to do is pull the trigger. No you don't need a permit to open carry. I open carry from our house to the property quite frequently.
> .


I presume then about my comment of racking the slide doesn't apply. I also presume the revolver you are carrying is a 22. And all I can say is practice practice practice.

I also presume that they strongly suggest you carry what you use to qualify for legal reasons. Just another legal liability issue.


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## Danaus29 (Sep 12, 2005)

.22 shooting hollow points. Not healthy to try coming into my house. Many a g'hog and a few squirrels have found it's not healthy to steal my fruits and veggies. (I don't trap all of them)

Ed, correct, old revolver, no safety hence the empty chamber. Also I agree completely that one MUST be familiar with their weapon in order to handle it with any degree of competence in an emergency situation. That's what the instructor at Gander Mountain told dh _as to the reason why they expect you to take the course with the gun you plan to carry_. The better you know your weapon the better you can use it for your and your familys protection.


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## braggscowboy (Jan 6, 2004)

I am ex-military. Served during Viet Nam War. I was station in Panama, lots of unrest from time to time. I was an MP 534th. I, carried weapons on post everyday, chambered. Not out of the norm for MP's to have weapons, 1911. (I also love the 1911.) But in saying that, many of the troops and pilots going to Nam came through for jungle training of some sort from time to time. There was a lot of mec. infantry and about anyone that needed some type of survival training. Green Berets came through. Each of them that required the use of a weapon would have weapons on post. Not sure if all of them drew ammo before going into the field. I, as well as another MP transported a prisoner to Ft. Levenworth. Both of us were carrying loaded 1911 .45's. Told the Stewardess when boarding, with the handcuffed prisoner. We went to several airports in US and boarded other planes,stayed a couple weeks in the states and returned the same way. Boy, has it changed since that time.


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## Gregg Alexander (Feb 18, 2007)

Alabama is a Open Carry State http://www.alabamaopencarry.com/

I know lots of people that open carry around here as well as concealed permit


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

> .22 shooting hollow points. Not healthy to try coming into my house. Many a g'hog and a few squirrels have found it's not healthy to steal my fruits and veggies. (I don't trap all of them)



Maybe "not healthy", but I wouoldn't bet my* LIFE *on it *stopping* an attack before they could kill you also

Don't let a 22's perfomance on small game* fool* you into thinking it will stop a human with one shot every time.

If it would, no one would carry anything larger


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

> I see the requirement to list the weapon on the permit as one more chunk of registration. Say you list your 1911. Then later, *an uncle leaves you his 1911*. You are qualified to use that exact model on your permit, but not that serial number. Now you *have to report your new gun to the authorities*. Into the database it goes. Forever.



In CA it would be there before it ever came into your possession, if done legally.
*ALL* firearm transfers there are done through dealers or law enforcement anyway


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## Danaus29 (Sep 12, 2005)

Bff, so you don't think 8 hollowpoint long rifle rounds fired into the chest area at practically pointblank range would stop a human being?


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## Cornhusker (Mar 20, 2003)

Danaus29 said:


> Bff, so you don't think 8 hollowpoint long rifle rounds fired into the chest area at practically pointblank range would stop a human being?


It would scare me off from quite a ways out.
That being said, not all people are the same, and someone who is hopped up on goofballs is considerably harder to stop than a normal person.
My step son is a Marine, and he said the enemy would be all doped up on God knows what, and even with the firepower the Marines have, they could soak up a lot of lead before their stupid brains would tell them they were dead, and they just keep coming.
I assume American dopers would be about the same.


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

> Bff, so you don't think 8 hollowpoint long rifle rounds fired into the chest area at practically pointblank range would stop a human being?


If it's a "pointblank range", you may not get 8 shots fired *before they get to you*.

If it's winter and they are wearing heavy clothes, they may not penetrate enough to INCAPACITATE them *in time*.

Many police departments went to using 40 cals because the 9 mm didn't give good results, and it's FAR more powerful than any 22.

In tests, the 22's are rated at only 20-30% "one shot stops"

You can *triple* those odds by using a 9mm or 40 cal

It's YOUR *LIFE *you're betting

Handgun stopping power ratings:
http://www.chuckhawks.com/handgun_power_chart.htm


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## Tiempo (May 22, 2008)

Dutchie said:


> I can't get a concealed carry permit because I am not a citizen, but I do carry a gun in the glove compartment of my truck. If I have to inspect (I am an appraiser) an empty house in a questionable area or where there is evidence of meth labs, I put it in my pocket.


Too bad you have to be a citizen in OK, In Michigan you can qualify as an LPR (I'm thinking about it)


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## littlejoe (Jan 17, 2007)

Most gun posts turn into a caliber debate??? 

I've got several, not as many as i'd like, like the most of you posting. Rifles, shotguns, and pistols. Most of them are loaded, no matter where they are at.

There is a loaded shotgun beside my bed, which would be my weapon of choice in an intrusion, a 357 in the PU, and a .22 in the stackwagon. I don't scoff at a .22! Shoot what you're comfortable, and proficient with, and shoot it often to maintain your proficiencey, and have fun doing it!

I've got a couple of dogs for security patrol, and if I wake up with a knife at my throat, no gun calibre is gonna help! So just being prepared is the biggest factor, not a gun. nor caliber!

The GF when we first started dating, was concerned bout the guns. I told her, I just want to be prepared, and hope there is no need. She has transformed into a second amendmont advocate, and really enjoys shooting sports!


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## Justin Thyme (Jun 3, 2011)

Why do gun threads end up with people talking about the guns they have, where they keep them and how they carry them, if they do? IF I had a gun I'd keep my mouth shut about it, wouldn't advertise even on a trusted forum like this one, and any conversation I had about it, and any intentions I had for it, would be limited to family, close friends and perhaps PMs.
But that's Just Me (a cousin).


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## zant (Dec 1, 2005)

Danaus29 said:


> Bff, so you don't think 8 hollowpoint long rifle rounds fired into the chest area at practically pointblank range would stop a human being?


 Not if the perp is wearing more than a t-shirt...We use our .22HPs for practice and save the LRN for the real thing...In a .22 HVsolids are a MUCH better defensive round...but to each his own.


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## Rickstir (Jun 28, 2006)

I have a Missouri permit, I let my Florida permit expire as MO is recognized more. I live in a small rural town and open carry a lot in town unless it is prohibited like post office, court house, etc. I conceal carry everywhere I can, have a weapon conceled in the car also. That is legal in MO without a permit if you can leagally own a firearm.


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## Tad (Apr 2, 2003)

Just got my approval in the mail yesterday!! Just over three months not bad for New York! Now to go shopping.


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## Justin Thyme (Jun 3, 2011)

Tad said:


> Just got my approval in the mail yesterday!! Just over three months not bad for New York! Now to go shopping.


So what do they do in NY? Approve you for CCW, then you get a gun and register it with the license?


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## Tad (Apr 2, 2003)

Justin Thyme said:


> So what do they do in NY? Approve you for CCW, then you get a gun and register it with the license?


Most countys you can't get a carry concealed but mine you can. When you get it approved then you can buy one and the info has to be put on your permit before you can pick up the gun from the store.


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## frogmammy (Dec 8, 2004)

Radiofish, 

I'm the little old lady with a 22. Three of them, actually. Also a 45, a 9mm and a 380ACP. (I have too many guns)

I'm at the range every week, usually with a 22. Usually run 200 or so rounds through each time. Also work with my other guns, but it gets expensive QUICKLY to run that much ammo through them on a weekly basis.

I have the Utah CC permit because it just made more sense than what the MO (where I live) CC permit offered. I hear that the MO permit is changing SOON...don't know what the new regs are, but I understand CC classes will be costing more and taking longer.

Mon


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## siberian (Aug 23, 2011)

I firmly support the 2nd amendment:goodjob:


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## edcopp (Oct 9, 2004)

I got mine.


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## idahodave (Jan 20, 2005)

CCP... but you guys might not like my little Beretta Bobcat


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## Frankie1970 (Jan 25, 2014)

Hi folks I have mine here in mo and don't worry to much if my shirt covers it or not yesterday at restaurant got a few dirty looks but no one said anything


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## brownegg (Jan 5, 2006)

Welcome to the forum Frankie....looks like you woke this thread up from the dead...LOL!

Keep in mind that whole idea behind CC is the element of surprise....your best friend. Allowing your weapon to be seen can put you in someones sight. You wouldn't have the first strike....just sayin....I'll keep mine hidden.


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## GREENCOUNTYPETE (Jul 25, 2006)

thread resurrection 

there are lots of arguments back and forth with the open vs concealed , the open carry folks have definitely made the point that open carry just doesn't have any history of gun grab or people other than police singling you out 

yes you loose surprise , but gain deterrence factor 

I support open carry and i appreciate what the open carriers have done for the carry movement , but I can admit I am lazy and just conceal


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