# I can't use my own recipes for pressure canning?



## Eyes Wide Open (Oct 14, 2010)

I'm just trying to understand this. For example, one thing I was really looking forward to doing was canning broth, since I have so little freezer space. But my recipe booklet 1) does not have any vegetable broth recipes in it and 2) says to skim off all fat from the chicken broth. On the latter, it doesn't say whether skimming fat is optional. I know most Americans do it, but is it REQUIRED for the canning recipe? Will it affect the canning time and thus put my family at risk of dying of botulism if I don't skim the fat?

My point is, even if I'm following a recipe when doing regular cooking, I'm used to tweaking it. "Oh, I'll leave the fat on" or "I don't have much olive oil left, I'll just put some butter in there" etc. Doesn't everybody?

I'm sure if I looked hard enough, I'd find a vegetable broth recipe, but how exact can it really be? People don't usually weigh or measure volume of onions - they just quarter them and dump them in. Ditto carrots - a lot of recipes call for "2 carrots," but if they saw the monsters I have (I think I have a carrot that is 3/4 pounds) they might rethink. So do I really have to follow the recipes sooooo exactly? 

I was thinking that since the recipe booklet called for the same pressure and same time for both chicken and beef broth recipes, I could probably copy that for the vegetable broth recipe too. No?

Oh, also, I have a recipe for canning sweet potatoes. I was hoping to puree it. It says don't puree, but it doesn't say why, or how to adjust canning pressure/time if I DO puree it. Surely it is possible to can pureed sweet potatoes.

Thanks for your wisdom.


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## laughaha (Mar 4, 2008)

With the broth, you can use whatever recipe you want and pressure can it. It will be fine as long as you pressure can for the recommended amount of time and pressure. When I can boneless/skinless chicken breast I always end up with a bit of fat inside the jar. I think the recommendation to skim the fat is more for health reasons, although if you over fill the jars or they bubble over in the canner and alot of fat is present it will make it more difficult for the jar to seal well.

Cannot puree anything cuz the internal heat isn't as likely to reach the optimum temp. Just dice your sweetpotatoes and can them. When you want them pureed, just open a can and either mash or toss in a blender. Will only take a couple seconds. Easy Peasy.


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## suitcase_sally (Mar 20, 2006)

As for vegetable broth, I don't think I've ever seen it for sale in the stores. It may be there, it's just that I've never seen it. It's not a real high demand product.

As for skimming the fat from broth, it's because you are making BROTH, not soup. You will never get all the fat off the top, just try your best. I find, especially this time of year, that it's easy to get most of the fat off the top by setting the pot outside on the porch to cool rather than putting a hot pot in the fridge. Also, I dip off all I can get, then put a piece of Syran wrap-type stuff on the top of the broth and slowly lift it away and a lot of the fat willl adhere to the plastic.

Laughhaha is correct about not canning pureed stuff. The center of the jar won't get hot enough in the canning process.

Once you understand the processes involved with canning you can venture out and make your own soups and other concoctions. Until then, let it be your guide. I agree that sometimes I want to know the "why" behind something and it's not often explained.


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## Our Little Farm (Apr 26, 2010)

Good advice about the puree, another is do NOT use dairy in your canning.


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## Ohio dreamer (Apr 6, 2006)

Also, no thickeners (flour, cornstarch, etc). Same as with puree's the "thicker" contents can't get up to temp, so you may not be killing all the "nasties" that could be lurking in there.


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## Eyes Wide Open (Oct 14, 2010)

OK, thanks for the advice - no dairy, no thickeners, no pureeing.

<shrug> I don't know if the fact that vegetable broth is probably not bought as much as chicken means anything for the question of whether I can make and can it. Sounds like I can.

I don't want to remove the fat from meat broth, not that I don't know how to. I'm not out to convince anyone to leave their fat on, just trying to figure out what is optional for canning and what must be done. Sounds like the recipe just assumed I wanted to remove it, and I can leave it alone. 

Thanks!


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## Eyes Wide Open (Oct 14, 2010)

Hmm, wait... a question on the puree. It's ok to make applesauce but not sweet potato puree? Maybe just because of the difference in acid, maybe? So it's ok to puree high-acid foods but not low-acid foods?


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## judylou (Jun 19, 2009)

One intro comment we often use in canning classes is "Cooking is an art but canning is a science." In other words, the two are NOT the same thing and they cannot be used interchangeably. You can 'cook' lots of things but that doesn't mean you may safely 'can' them. 

For safe canning you have to understand what will happen inside that jar while it sits on the shelf for months at a time. The food that contains oil or thickeners or dairy products is safe to eat directly from the stove or oven. But put it in a jar and set it on the shelf and it quickly turns into the ideal environment for botulism and other bacteria to grow.

You mention a "recipe booklet". What is it? The manual that came with your pressure cooker? Please do not use that for canning instructions. It isn't current. If you are going to be canning then either get a current copy of the Ball Blue Book or use the online source of NCHFP http://www.uga.edu/nchfp/

If you like to fine tune recipes when cooking then just can the basic foods and do all your fine tuning after opening the jars at preparation for serving time.


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## judylou (Jun 19, 2009)

> I don't want to remove the fat from meat broth, not that I don't know how to.


You should if you want to can it. It is NOT optional. It can turn rancid. But most importantly it prevents the heat from killing the bacteria. This aspect of canning meats is often discussed here and is very well documented scientifically. As to how to do it, Sally addressed that above. It is quite easy to do. You simply cool it, let the fat congeal on top and then skim it off. You can even refrigerate it overnight, then skim, then reheat and put in jars. All meat canning recipes will call for removing as much fat as possible.



> a question on the puree. It's ok to make applesauce but not sweet potato puree? Maybe just because of the difference in acid, maybe? So it's ok to puree high-acid foods but not low-acid foods?


Basically yes it is the acid difference, although that is an over-simplification as even some acidic foods cannot be safely pureed because of the density that results.

All of this is discussed in more detail on NCHFP.


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## mare (Aug 31, 2006)

[QUOTE=judylou;For safe canning you have to understand what will happen inside that jar while it sits on the shelf for months at a time. The food that contains oil or thickeners or dairy products is safe to eat directly from the stove or oven. But put it in a jar and set it on the shelf and it quickly turns into the ideal environment for botulism and other bacteria to grow.

now i am confused--if a jar was canned at the right pressure and sealed how does the botulism grow isnt it basically a sterile enviroment at that point? what about food that is thin when canned but gets thicker as it sits on the shelf?


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## mare (Aug 31, 2006)

judylou said:


> You should if you want to can it. It is NOT optional. It can turn rancid.
> 
> a few posts back you said a little fat would not turn rancid cuz its sealed?


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## Eyes Wide Open (Oct 14, 2010)

mare said:


> now i am confused--if a jar was canned at the right pressure and sealed how does the botulism grow isnt it basically a sterile enviroment at that point? what about food that is thin when canned but gets thicker as it sits on the shelf?


I'm the OP but I can answer these. It's difficult or impossible to kill everything even when properly canning. Botulism is a problem because it likes low oxygen and low acid environments. It exists everywhere and it's fine under normal circumstances - but put it in a can and kill off its competition and it will multiply to toxic levels. So they are saying (and this part I did not know) that fat is either conducive to botulism or makes it difficult to kill it off (or both).



mare said:


> a few posts back you said a little fat would not turn rancid cuz its sealed?


And, no, she did not. Someone else said you just do your best removing the fat, that's all.

Blah, this is a little disappointing, my goal in canning was to make foods my way and without all the crap they put in commercially canned food. Like being able to avoid high fructose corn syrup, for example, or food coloring (that I assume I can still avoid though). At the store, I buy the chicken broth that has the fat in it, but it tastes terrible - my own broth tastes great though. I had no idea I'd have to get rid of the very best part. It seems like I wasted my time on this since I'll have to freeze my broth anyway. And sweet potato puree was going to be a convenience food for my 5 year old, but I can't do that either. I'm just disappointed I guess. Hopefully it will still be worth it just for the tomato sauce.


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## Ohio dreamer (Apr 6, 2006)

Eyes Wide Open said:


> At the store, I buy the chicken broth that has the fat in it, but it tastes terrible - my own broth tastes great though. I had no idea I'd have to get rid of the very best part.


You don't have to, just think outside the box. Skim all that fat off, but don't toss it out! Once it's solid cut it into small chunks and freeze it. No reason you can't add it back to the broth when you open the jar. Little chunks of meat fat takes up much less room then broth in your freezer. 

Remember, commercial caners can can at much higher temps then we can at home, so they have a different set of rules. It might be that that higher canning temp is what is making you not like the fat in their broth.


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## Eyes Wide Open (Oct 14, 2010)

Oooh, nice idea. I will try it. 

And you're right, it may be the processing that makes it taste blah, I always figured it was because they use factory chicken to make it. Or maybe the MSG.


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## judylou (Jun 19, 2009)

> now i am confused--if a jar was canned at the right pressure and sealed how does the botulism grow isnt it basically a sterile enviroment at that point? what about food that is thin when canned but gets thicker as it sits on the shelf?
> Reply With Quote


That is a big IF. Because its safety also depends on the make-up of what is in the jar, not just the heat and pressure and time. And the seal creates an anaerobic environment inside the jar. Botulism grows best in an anaerobic environment.

For example, if a defatted chicken broth was canned at the right pressure and for the right time then yes it is safe even if it contained some bacteria before processing. However if a fatty chicken broth is canned at the same pressure and for the same time then it may very well NOT be safe. Fat molecules coat and insulate bacterial spores like a protective overcoat thus preventing the heat from penetrating and killing them. To kill then you would have to increasing both the pressure and the processing time to kill them. How much? No one knows for sure except that lab testing has established that the higher the percentage of fats in the jars the greater the bacterial survival rate.

As to turning rancid, the greater the amount of fat molecules the greater the chances of it turning rancid and the faster it happens. A small amount of fat such as the small amount left when a broth is properly defatted before canning will rarely pose a problem because the food is eaten before the small amount of O2 in the food in the jar can turn it rancid. But if a large amount of fat is left in the jar then rancidity is a much more likely result.



> Blah, this is a little disappointing, my goal in canning was to make foods my way and without all the crap they put in commercially canned food.


It shouldn't be disappointing as your goal is quite possible. However the "my way" part comes AFTER opening the jars. 

Home canning is preservation, not convenience oriented. Home canning is not and never was intended to let you have everything ready to eat just the way you like it right out of the jar. Its purpose it to preserve, in a pure form, all the basic food to use when they are not available otherwise. You can then fine tune them as you wish AFTER opening the jars. 

So defat your meats and save the fats, cook it down and freeze a small container of it to add a spoonful back to the canned jar of broth at prep time. That way it is safe, convenient, and just the way you like it.


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## mare (Aug 31, 2006)

what about food that is thin when canned but gets thick as it sits?


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## mare (Aug 31, 2006)

Eyes Wide Open said:


> And, no, she did not. Someone else said you just do your best removing the fat, that's all.
> 
> look in the post about liguid coming out of jars of meat while canning--that is exactly what she said--i thought it was odd at the time but it was said!!! not picking at you Judylou just trying to understand


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## Danaus29 (Sep 12, 2005)

Wouldn't vegetable stock be pretty much the same as vegetable soup when it comes to canning it?


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## laughaha (Mar 4, 2008)

I have bought veg broth at the stores and made it. If no meat present, then can at veggie times. If ANY meat present then can at meat times. No biggie. I really don't see why you can't make and can veg broth anyway you want. If apple or pear butter can be safely canned, then you can certainly decide the veg broth recipe you want to use. Pressure canning is designed for low/no acid foods, so *the ingredients really don't matter*. 

Oh and I'm sure that everyone will have a field day with this but: YOU CAN PRESSURE COOK RECIPES THAT AREN'T IN THE CURRENT YEARS BALL CANNING BOOK. For those who decide to only use those recipes, cool, but I choose to use those recipes IN ADDITION to the ones of my forefathers. Grandpa and Grandma put up over 4000 jars of food every year for over 60 years. Their recipes are AMAZING and I continue to use them.


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## Horseyrider (Aug 8, 2010)

laughaha said:


> Grandpa and Grandma put up over 4000 jars of food every year for over 60 years. Their recipes are AMAZING and I continue to use them.


But see, here's what worries me about that. 

The cultivars available to Grandma and Grandpa aren't necessarily the same ones we have now. Chemically they can be quite different. I was canning at the time when tomatoes were beginning to be bred to be sweeter and less acidic. Nobody gave much thought to how that would work for canning in a BWB. Suddenly everybody was recommending putting lemon juice in your jars of tomatoes to raise the acidity.

I really love the old time recipes. I collect cookbooks mainly pre-WWI because the recipes and menus are so good. But I wouldn't use their canning advice. It's one thing to make a meal with yesterday's recipe and today's ingredients; but quite another to can it up.

I used to can my own recipes too. I'd find the canning time based on the longest processing time for the ingredients within. You know what I am? Lucky to be here to tell you it was dumb.


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## PixieLou (May 1, 2010)

FWIW - The Ball Complete Book has a recipe for Vegetable Stock on page 401. Surprisingly (to me at least) the processing times are longer for Vegetable Stock than for beef stock or chicken stock.


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## laughaha (Mar 4, 2008)

Horseyrider said:


> But see, here's what worries me about that.
> 
> The cultivars available to Grandma and Grandpa aren't necessarily the same ones we have now. Chemically they can be quite different. I was canning at the time when tomatoes were beginning to be bred to be sweeter and less acidic. Nobody gave much thought to how that would work for canning in a BWB. Suddenly everybody was recommending putting lemon juice in your jars of tomatoes to raise the acidity.
> 
> ...


I completely agree with you if you are HWB canning, but with pressure canning the acid levels don't matter so it's completely different (to me). I pressure can almost everything, including my spaghetti sauce, tomato juice, etc. The only thing I don't pressure can is jams and jellies.


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## Eyes Wide Open (Oct 14, 2010)

Thanks everyone - and thanks for the encouragement and perspective, judylou.

I think that other than having to adjust and store my broth fat separately, the only other thing I was itching about in terms of convenience was the sweet potato puree. My daughter likes to eat it, and I was really hoping to be able to can it so that my husband could just give it to her as a snack when I'm not around. My husband doesn't really cook, so the more I can prepare ahead of time, the better - otherwise he'll reach for processed yucky food.

So I could just can sweet potato chunks, then, and have him pop open a jar and run it through the Vita-Mix to puree. But I doubt that will actually happen, you know? He'll probably just never serve it.

I guess the thing to do is - and frankly, it's just as well - have him serve sweet potato chunks  I mean, for crying out loud, if the kid likes puree surely she'll like the chunks, right? And if not, then she'll just have to deal  (Of course the issue there is that if she doesn't like it the first time, my husband is not likely to serve it again, he'll just reach for something he knows she likes).

Plus that was the thing I was going to start out with now that I have the canner. Since it's winter, I don't exactly have tomatoes and corn (and I'm very low on apples by now), but I do have sweet potatoes. So I think after the holidays I'll give it a whirl.


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## GoldenMom (Jan 2, 2005)

Eyes Wide Open said:


> So I could just can sweet potato chunks, then, and have him pop open a jar and run it through the Vita-Mix to puree. But I doubt that will actually happen, you know? He'll probably just never serve it.
> 
> I guess the thing to do is - and frankly, it's just as well - have him serve sweet potato chunks  I mean, for crying out loud, if the kid likes puree surely she'll like the chunks, right? And if not, then she'll just have to deal  (Of course the issue there is that if she doesn't like it the first time, my husband is not likely to serve it again, he'll just reach for something he knows she likes).


The only problem with this is that you aren't supposed to just open a jar and eat the food straight from there-you're supposed to heat home canned food for 10 minutes at a rapid boil before eating it.


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## TraderBob (Oct 21, 2010)

NO dairy? I can milk, and so do many I know. Or do you mean dairy added in other canned foods.


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## Paquebot (May 10, 2002)

The sweet potato question has never been a question. There have never been any instructions for home canning of puree. Everything has been based on George Washington Carver's instructions published in 1936. That is, cut in chunks and pre-cook prior to canning. The chunks can be packed fairly tight so that there's not much syrup. A jar is to be dumped as is, mashed, and heated. We microwave but it can be heated in the oven or on top of the stove with careful tending. This was the first year that I've canned sweet potatoes and it's definitely not going to be the last. 

Martin


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## judylou (Jun 19, 2009)

> NO dairy? I can milk, and so do many I know. Or do you mean dairy added in other canned foods.


No it means all dairy foods. Home canning of milk isn't approved by the guidelines because of the fats it contains. And as far as I know, never has been. You do so at your own risk.



> I completely agree with you if you are HWB canning, but with pressure canning the acid levels don't matter so it's completely different (to me).


For the benefit of any future readers I am obligated to point out that per the guidelines, this isn't entirely accurate. Acidity of a food IS very relevant even with pressure canning because both pH of the food and the density of it are used to determine the proper (safe) processing time required. If the pH is unknown or if the density of the food in the jar is too high then the food can easily be UNDER processed and unsafe for shelf storage. 

There are too many variables, too many possible mistakes that can be made when pressure canning to assume that just because a food is pressure canned it is automatically safe. Lab testing has repeatedly proven that assumption to be false.

This is especially true when one is making up their own recipes and just guessing at the processing time needed.

You can, of course, choose to ignore the safety guidelines but you do so at your own risk.


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## lambs.are.cute (Aug 15, 2010)

hummmm good thing that I read this now. I was planning on trying to can my own sheep's milk.................. I guess it all goes for cheese now. :sigh: oh well I guess I get to try gooda, roquefurt, cheddar, motzarella, etc :smile:


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## Horseyrider (Aug 8, 2010)

Thanks, Judylou. I wasn't making myself very clear at all.


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## judylou (Jun 19, 2009)

Horseyrider said:


> Thanks, Judylou. I wasn't making myself very clear at all.


You were perfectly clear to me and quite right.  In addition to different vegetable cultivars, they also had much stronger vinegar, much different cooking practices, and much less resistant bacteria to deal with.

Canning is one of those things where the good ole days is NOT better. :run:


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