# kkbinco and the temple of doom - HELP!



## kkbinco (Jun 11, 2010)

I may have bitten off more than I can chew this time. I'm trying to make a 30 inch or so wide cloth with a weft dominate weave. Trouble is between the width, high tension, and low 12 epi sett I'm using the draw-in is problematic.

No problem, says I. I'll just use a temple - for the first time. :umno:








As you can see I'm kind of shredding the project a wee bit.

I thought I was following the instructions a http://www.woolery.com/store/pc/How-to-use-a-Temple-d40.htm Guess not!

Anybody have tips and tricks to using a temple they'd care to share?


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## Osiris (Jun 9, 2010)

Ewww....I've never used a temple yet, though I do have one. 
Weaving today would probably give you loads of ideas and helpful hints. 
But 3 things occur to me. Just suggestions tho. I'm no expert. 
1. *up* your sett. This would give you some stability in the warp. The weave looks loose and being weft faced adds to the warp instability. Maybe 15 might provide more strength - yeah I know you'd have to re-sley but it really doesn't look like the fabric can handle the temple.
2. Try a different kind of edge stretcher. I made something which worked for my table loom just using elastic hair bands. (pic) You get the idea. You're just pulling from the outside rather than pushing from the inside. You can adapt pretty much any kind of clip to accomplish the same thing. 
3. Live with the draw in. I know you want 30 wide, but maybe living with 26 is better than torn edges. I think with the low set and loos-ness you're going to run into a strength problem with a temple, no matter what you do, unless the sett is increased.

Also have you tried easing up on the temple width? Maybe just raise it a bit before digging in maybe a _half inch_ - just enough to hold it. I see the pic on the website of Woolery, looks like they're stretching the dickens out of the piece. I have my doubts about how far you could go doing _THAT _without problems! Ease up on your width, accept some draw in or up your sett. Only things I can think of. 

BEAUTIFUL PATTERN btw! So sorry about the problems. It's gonna be gorgeous when you get going. Looks like flame point? Almost Krokbragd!


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## Kasidy (Oct 20, 2002)

Make sure your warp is pulled really really tight 
"Bubble" the weft as you lay it in--do NOT pull it tight before you pound it in. It pulls in because the weft is too tight.
I always put extra warp threads along the side selvedges, this seems to give it a little extra strength.
Your pattern is beautiful!


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## PKBoo (Apr 10, 2008)

The other thing I've read to reduce draw in is to beat on an open shed. So before changing treadling, beat forward, then change treadles while moving the reed backwards. 

I've used a temple a few times, and really like it, but have never had that effect. Is the temple aligned with the width so it's not really STRETCHING it, but just holding it in place? 

Keep us posted! I do hope that you allowed extra length on your warp for sampling...
(your title cracked me up by the way!)


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## PKBoo (Apr 10, 2008)

Osiris - what is that in the upper right corner of your loom? That silver thing, with the 4 wooden bars - I've never seen anything like it!


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## Osiris (Jun 9, 2010)

KKB, it looks like you using a Rigid Heddle loom. Is that what it is? I don't know if the elastic idea can adapt to the sides of that. Not sure. I'm with Kasidy too - crank the dickens out of the warp. Should be able to bounce a penny of it! (that's just me talkin) GOD that's a beautiful pattern!!! Every time I look at it I wanna DO IT! ;-)

PKB: Those are the levers to raise the harnesses. Very ergonomic and 'finger friendly'. Neat and capable little loom. Sold it when I got the Artisat. Many times I wish I hadn't. Supposed to be a "Dorset" but no maker's mark. Though it resembled FC Wood's work. 

I was just thinking I hope one of the others doesn't pop in and say, 'you know you could have knitted that a lot easier'. :grit:


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## Rosepath (Feb 18, 2011)

I agree on the warp tension, it needs to be screaming tight. What fiber is your warp, cause if it can't take really tight tension that would be counterproductive.
It is a lovely pattern!
Looks like your right selvedge warp ties have come undone, tie them up again tight as the rest.
If you have to, pull the last two warp ends at each side loose, then sley them in the same heddle and reed space, so you have a doubled thread at each edge for strength. 
Hang a fishing weight or three suspended by a loop of yarn on these now-doubled warp threads, between the harnesses and the back beam. This will weight those last two warp edges at your selvedges, enabling them to hold their place.
I haven't used a temple except when weaving reproduction blankets at a museum, but it was set to just barely lock in at the width of the fabric, preventing draw-in. You will also, as was mentioned above, bubble the weft a LOT (practice makes perfect, LOL).
Throw a shot of the weft, leaving your shuttle out to the side or resting on the cloth, with NO tension whatsoever on the weft leading to the shuttle. Close the shed, and watch the weft being pulled up and then down at each warp interface - see how much extra movement is required of the weft? So no pulling it across, the other alternative is use a diagonal from the edge of the weft shot, heading upward to the open side, and beat it in with the diagonal weft allowed to take the position it wants. (Yarns have feelings too, you know 
Good luck, it is going to be stunning!


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## kkbinco (Jun 11, 2010)

Thanks all for your guidance. I've cut out that attempt and have a new start. So far so good. Starting with the temple in place, rather than adding it when trouble arises, is working much better.

Giggle, I have so much tension the warp is lifting the frames a little! :happy2:
(Using 8/2 cotton)

I usually do the diagonal shot, but am trying the bubble. When I do a bubble weft I sometimes get a little loop in the weft after I beat. What should I do to avoid this?

Osiris: I do have a little Cricket for rigid heddle fun, but I'm using a table loom for this project:








Someday a floor loom. Someday...

Thank you for the complements on the pattern. Saw it in a book and thought "Pretty!" myself. As Osiris surmised it's a Flamepoint. A fairly easy 4 shaft/4 color weft pattern. I'll post the draft if a bit.


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## kkbinco (Jun 11, 2010)

Flamepoint/Queen's Cord draft









Treadling is a basic 2/2 Twill with a color change on each throw.
Note color rotation between the Units. What was the first color moves to the last position in the next Unit.
The number of repeats controls the height of the "Zig-Zag." Use the same number of repeats in each Unit. I'm using a repeat of 3 for my project.


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## Osiris (Jun 9, 2010)

Ew...ew...ew..... copy copy copy! Thanks KKB 

LOL That warp's so tight the looms weavin' by itself! 

"...(Yarns have feelings too, you know ...." Love it! And the double selvedge Rosepath!!! ^5 Good idea. 

KKB, with a 4 shaft table loom, you can do a huge number of combos that aren't easy on a floor loom without double-pedaling. With four 'levers' you can do up to 16 combos. You can't do that with just the 6 pedals of a floor loom. I wish 4H floor looms came with 8 or 10 pedals. They don't tho. I've already run across patterns I could do on my table loom that I won't try on the floor loom because the pattern has 12 combos but I've only got 6 pedals. 

That's a *beautiful* table loom. If you do get a floor loom - don't get rid of the table loom! Those levers are more versatile than 6 or 8 pedals. 
Hehe..... I ran the pattern thru fiberworks, only as 'boundweave'. Just had to try it! Wowee !!!


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## Kasidy (Oct 20, 2002)

About the little loops in the weft. That means you "bubbled" at bit too much on that shot. Open the shed and redo the shot with a little less weft. As others have said: It is a real learning process. After a few projects under your belt you will develop a feel for how much weft you need for any given shot and you will be able to angle the weft--no more bubbling. Rosepath's idea about the weighted line is a great one---I forgot that I used to use that a thousand years ago when I was beginning to weave! It really helps you judge where you want the edge to stay.
So much of spinning and weaving is a matter of practice and repetition and getting the "feel of the fiber." You sound like you are well on your way.


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## SvenskaFlicka (Nov 2, 2011)

You know Osiris, you could just tie up your treadles 1-3, 2-4, 1, 2, 3, 4 and just treadle wirth both feet for complicated designs. 
That's what I did before I learned you were supposed to climb underneath the loom and redo the tie ups. :teehee: I wove 18 feet of broken lozenge twill that way.


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## Osiris (Jun 9, 2010)

Yeah, I've seen that Svens - the straight tieup and double pedaling (sometimes triple). I got a numb right foot tho-Can't feel the pedals. A lot easier with fingers. Ahm a left-foot tread'ler! LOL


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