# People who give up...



## donsgal (May 2, 2005)

Today I spoke with a woman who told me that her husband had been diagnosed with pancreatic cancer in February and has already lost 60 pounds and is now under the care of hospice and is apparently close to death.

I asked her about treatment and she said that the doctors told her that there was nothing that they could do. By the time the discovered the cancer it had metastasized (sp) to his liver and bile duct and that even aggressive chemotherapy most likely would only give him another month, at the most.

It seems that eveyone has just resigned themselves to the inevitable...

For some reason I cannot accept this kind of thinking. I almost asked her if they had considered any alternative treatments such as Iscador, Cesium, Laetril, Essiac tea, or any number of other possibilities. But I have discovered, painfully, that once people "accept" emminent death, they don't even want to HEAR about other possibilities, and they will get darn upset with you if you even ask or suggest any other options.

Why is this? Why do they just give up without trying? I don't get it. On the one hand, I feel bad that I didn't mention that there are other possibilities, but on the other hand I know that my suggestions would be completely ignored and possibly cause hard feelings.

It doesn't make sense to me that you would just give up and not keep trying to find a cure...

donsgal


----------



## Pink_Carnation (Apr 21, 2006)

I would say mostly because they don't want the pain of it not working. I saw a friend go through her mother dying and they did try the alternatives but it was still a rollercoaster ride ...some don't want to hope because they know they will be disappointed


----------



## marvella (Oct 12, 2003)

pancreatic cancer is 100% fatal. there is no cure, or even anything to slow it down.


----------



## Karen (Apr 17, 2002)

I think you have to be in that situation to understand. When my mother was diagnosed with stage 4 metastasized SCLC lung cancer, she was told she only had 2-3 months to live. It was already in the liver and brain. Even the most aggressive treatment would have been in vain; whether allopathic or homeopathic. Mom initially choose to try chemo/radiation, but then changed her mind and opted for quality of life.

I also had a very close and dear friend who had metastasized breast cancer and it had gone to her liver and pancreas. She was given 6 months to live at the time. She choose everything from Mexico for homeopathic cures and everything in between. The "cures" wore her down to the point she passed away within 3 months. She had no quality of life from the time she was diagnosed until the day she died.

Although treatments can give "hope"; there is also reality. The family and the patient needs time to adjust to these realities. Although cancer is a terrible thing, there is a blessing in it. You can have time to put your affairs in order and have chance to make things right with those you need, and chance to say good bye. You also have the opportunity to do a few things you may have always wanted to do before you die; and a chance to just take in all this world has. You can't do that when your sick or go with cures of "hope" to the point that by the time you realize they aren't working, your bed-ridden and near death.

My Mom felt that, well, she was going to die anyway someday any how, and this way she could live what time she had left with viewing the world in the way she should have viewed it in all those years past. She suddenly noticed every little color, every scent, and cherished every moment. She made amends with those she need to, and did a lot of things she had always wanted. She died knowing she had a chance to say good-bye and gave us all the chance to be there with her. As bad as it hurt, I considered it a privilege to be able to hold her hand as she passed into eternity.

Before she died, Mom said she was glad she choose the course she did in not going with further treatment. She said the worst would be to die suddenly of a heart attack or accident. She said it would be awful to never tell the whole family goodbye, make amends, or live like there was no tomorrow.


----------



## donsgal (May 2, 2005)

marvella said:


> pancreatic cancer is 100% fatal. there is no cure, or even anything to slow it down.


Everyone says that. But how can we be sure? 100 years ago tetanus was fatal, 75 years ago rabies was fatal. I knew a person who had spinal meningitis - worst case the doctors had EVER seen. They told her parents that she had less than a 1 percent chance of survival, and even if she did survive would have long-term disabilities as a result. She recovered and went on to lead a normal life.

Maybe nobody has survived it - YET. Who is to say that with the proper treatment, that they can't be the first one?

donsgal


----------



## tltater (Jul 13, 2004)

I'd have to say accept everyones personal choice. We all have choices to make in life and who's to say who's choice is the right one. You can't force what you believe to be the right thing for you on to someone who doesn't agree. 

Everyone has the choice to deal with things the way they see fit...not how we may see it.


----------



## donsgal (May 2, 2005)

tltater said:


> I'd have to say accept everyones personal choice. We all have choices to make in life and who's to say who's choice is the right one. You can't force what you believe to be the right thing for you on to someone who doesn't agree.
> 
> Everyone has the choice to deal with things the way they see fit...not how we may see it.


Excellent point. It hurts to see people in pain. I guess you want to help in some way. It's hard to hold your tongue and respect their decisions. I'm glad I didn't say anything to her. Thanks for the insight.

donsgal


----------



## culpeper (Nov 1, 2002)

There are times in life when you just have to accept the inevitable. To do otherwise is to live in false hope, to raise hope when there is none, to be in utter denial. 

Cancer isn't always fatal, but all cancers have the potential to be so. Once it has taken hold, there really is nothing anybody can do about it. For the patient, acceptance doesn't always come easily, but it does always come eventually. 

Once a patient has reached the point of acceptance, it can be very distressing to them to have someone rushing around offering false hope, looking for alternative treatments/doctors, changing hospitals etc. That's just plain cruel. 

Yes, it's sad to watch somebody die and to feel helpless. But it's absolutely pointless to try and fight a battle you're guaranteed to lose. Pick your battles!

Be loving, be caring, be there. But don't be unrealistic.

Life is a terminal disease.


----------



## GrannyCarol (Mar 23, 2005)

I would not care to be treated, as my mother did not either when she was found to have cancer in her liver, pancreas and dotting her internal organs. What she most didn't want was to be in a hospital hooked up to tubes and not able to choose to end it. We knew a lovely sense of peace at the end and we joked and enjoyed each other. She told me that she had one thing left to do with her life and that was to show us how to die. 

Frankly, I don't think I'd trade that for last ditch efforts to try to stave it off or prolong the experience. It was unpleasant and painful enough as it was. 

For myself... as I see it right now, I'd be glad to go see my Maker and sit with my brothers at the marriage feast of the Lamb! I don't seek out death, but neither do I fear it, I hope for great joy and love. I've no interest in treatments to prolong my time in this world - if God wants it to be longer, He can always arrange that.  I'd rather He be my primary health giver anyway.


----------



## heelpin (Nov 18, 2003)

People give up because the medical deities have pronounced sentence and we have been programmed to accept it as the ultimate authority. I say BS, as long as there is breath there is hope and like Dr. John Christopher said, there is no such thing as an incurable disease, you just have to keep looking until you find it and 30 per cent of the cure is attitude. I think when history looks back at how cancer was treated in our time they will just shake their head and say unbelievable. I'm not a government approved drug pushing whitecoat but I do have a brain and it makes sense to me that a disease like cancer is the results of some deficiency probably long term and or constipation somewhere in the body, the bowels, lymph system, nervous system, something has interrupted the natural process of cells dying and being eliminated and new cells taking their place. I have just recently read where a long term study with thousands of people found that if you have a vitamin D deficiency you have a 60% better chance of getting cancer. I think this is just a clue of how important nutrition is for disease prevention.
What would I do if I had cancer? I would start cleansing, liver, kidneys, lymph and go on a juice fast with nothing but organic vegetable and fruit juices, start taking a good ionic mineral supplement, herbs, etc. and meditate and pray.


----------



## Karen (Apr 17, 2002)

heelpin said:


> ....and like Dr. John Christopher said, there is no such thing as an incurable disease


That simply is not true. If it were, no one would die.  

Death is a part of life. To accept death is to gain peace of mind; it's natures way of a reward for our hard years, as well as making a place for others. It isn't this terrible end, but rather the natural course of things like when the leaves change in the fall. They are dying, but still beautiful. People tend to forget that at the moment we are born, we are all terminal. Everyone of us. 

If you choose to go out kicking and screaming and refusing to go, then that is your choice; but you can't fault others or declare it not right or unfit for another to choose to accept the inevitable. If they choose to not fight it and live with a high quality of life (to say nothing of the new appreciation one has for the world and people around them when faced with the reality of death), then you can't say they are wrong or that it's "BS". But rather that it's the choice they have the *right* to make -- _which should be respected rather than criticized_.


----------



## GrannyCarol (Mar 23, 2005)

I almost have to smile when I remember a dear friend of mine, who was 26 and dying of some strange brain disease. People would tell him not to give up... his grandmother would tell him all he needed was to "eat right, exercise and have a positive attitude". We laughed over that - he couldn't walk and had lost 60 lbs of hard muscle (he'd worked laying irrigation pipe before he became disabled). Somehow, I don't think her well meaning, but ridiculous advice was going to help him at all. 

His problem was never properly diagnosed, he lived about a year after he was no longer able to work and his death was slow and rather nasty - he'd get lesions in his brain that made it so that he couldn't use a limb or see or whatever for periods of time. He was not really able to walk for months. 

It didn't matter. He walked in Christ and we had wonderful times of fellowship with God and with each other. Whether this flesh continues or not, what matters is where we walk, with God or with other spirits. What is our life on this earth? A few years and we will be gone from this world. So... doesn't our eternal life matter a LOT more? I think so. Jas had treasures in heaven, he walked with the living God in this life and how much more so now? 

We are all going to suffer and we are all going to die. That is the nature of this flesh. So, I desire that God make it possible that my suffering and my death be of benefit somehow to someone, that my life reflect Him in this world and my death be a returning to my Father. 

Another dear friend of mine, Marv, had esophageal cancer. His time in the hospital at the end was great joy of fellowship with God, both above and in His people here in this world. The Spirit in him affected a whole floor of the hospital because of his great joy. I hope to sit with him again some day too. 

Who cares if this flesh passes on? I won't die one minute before God wants me to, or live one minute past my appointed time. If I walk with God today, I will walk with Him for eternity. If I walk with the spirits of this world today, I will suffer with them for an eternity. To me that is a much more important choice than to treat or not to treat cancer.


----------



## momlaffsalot (Sep 9, 2004)

marvella said:


> pancreatic cancer is 100% fatal. there is no cure, or even anything to slow it down.


That's not true. Something like 3% of people who have this will survive. 

http://www.pancreatica.org/survivor_stories.html

Here's a powerful statement: 

*long-term survivors are also (chances are) those who "thought they would be." *


----------



## marvella (Oct 12, 2003)

momlaffsalot said:


> That's not true. Something like 3% of people who have this will survive.
> 
> http://www.pancreatica.org/survivor_stories.html
> 
> ...


whatever. as a former hospice nurse, i once had a patient who was still living two years after his diagnosis. but as others have said, it's the quality of life that matters. the two year survivor threw up every bite of food he ate, and smoked marijuana in an attempt to keep something down. he also had a multitude of other illnesses, some secondary to the cancer, that kept him uncomfortable and in constant pain.

not worth it, imo.


----------



## donsgal (May 2, 2005)

heelpin said:


> People give up because the medical deities have pronounced sentence and we have been programmed to accept it as the ultimate authority. I say BS, as long as there is breath there is hope and like Dr. John Christopher said, there is no such thing as an incurable disease, you just have to keep looking until you find it and 30 per cent of the cure is attitude. I think when history looks back at how cancer was treated in our time they will just shake their head and say unbelievable. I'm not a government approved drug pushing whitecoat but I do have a brain and it makes sense to me that a disease like cancer is the results of some deficiency probably long term and or constipation somewhere in the body, the bowels, lymph system, nervous system, something has interrupted the natural process of cells dying and being eliminated and new cells taking their place. I have just recently read where a long term study with thousands of people found that if you have a vitamin D deficiency you have a 60% better chance of getting cancer. I think this is just a clue of how important nutrition is for disease prevention.
> What would I do if I had cancer? I would start cleansing, liver, kidneys, lymph and go on a juice fast with nothing but organic vegetable and fruit juices, start taking a good ionic mineral supplement, herbs, etc. and meditate and pray.


Yes, heelpin, your thoughts are mine exactly. If it were me, lord have mercy, I would never stop looking, searching, trying to get well. I believe that A LOT of people have cancer and don't even know it and that their body heals them of the disease before the AMA gets a hold of them and succeeds in beating their immune system into submission with chemo and radiology and WORRY! I guess that is why it is hard for me to understand people who just say..."ok, I'll die now", when IMHO it is not necessary.

Unfortunately, I cannot force other people to understand my point of view any more than I can understand theirs. I guess there are just the "spit in your eye" kind of folks and there aren't! LOL

donsgal


----------



## Marilyn in CO (May 12, 2002)

heelspin and donsgal, I absolutely agree with you. Of course we all must die, in God's timing as our days are numbered, but I really believe some go sooner, because a doctor gave them a death sentence. The mind is so fearfully and wonderfully made and the body will follow every thought. Don't you know of so many people, who dutifully died to the day, just like the doctor said they would? Our bodies heal, God made them that way. There are so many ways to boost the bodys' ability to heal. My mom, my hero, was given 6 months, she lived 13 years. She always believed her cancer was a virus. She used vitamins, herbs, colon cleanses and prayer. Another friend had melanoma and was given 3 months. He also used the nutritional route. That was 25 years ago. So there are always those, who have been given death sentences, that go on to live long lives. Even the Bible says, "My people perish, for lack of knowledge". I really believe our present system for cancer treatment especially, will one day be looked at as totally barbaric.....and it is. At least older people can have a choice of what to do, however, children have no choice, but the present obsolete system.


----------



## AR Cattails (Dec 22, 2005)

donsgal said:


> Everyone says that. But how can we be sure? 100 years ago tetanus was fatal, 75 years ago rabies was fatal. I knew a person who had spinal meningitis - worst case the doctors had EVER seen. They told her parents that she had less than a 1 percent chance of survival, and even if she did survive would have long-term disabilities as a result. She recovered and went on to lead a normal life.
> 
> Maybe nobody has survived it - YET. Who is to say that with the proper treatment, that they can't be the first one?
> 
> donsgal



I have to agree with you about the spinal meningitis. My sister had it when she was 13 and two different times she received her final rites. There was no hope for her. But the doctors didn't give up and slowly her chances for recovery grew. 90/10, 80/20, 70/30 and so on and so on. The doctors were astounded. The nurses called her their miracle child. But she did end up with disabilities. She ended up completely deaf and suffered for years with night terrors. I don't think people should give up but they should prepare anyway and live the remainder of their life to the fullest, if possible.


----------



## northstarpermie (May 11, 2006)

For me, it would completely depend on the situation I was in. Many factors to consider, but I would say a 95% chance I would do what I could to fight it off. 

For others, I will just respect what decision they have made for themselves and honor that.


----------



## GrannyCarol (Mar 23, 2005)

One thing I left out of my post is that what I would want to do is for me and not something I'd expect anyone else to do or to want to do.  These choices are very individual. For me, I trust that God could cure me, if we decide together that it is not yet time, or He will take me if it is. I don't see a "battle", I see a conversation with the living God and a mutual decision. Some days I see that place where I could just be with Him, trusting that He will deal with any business left in this world for me and there is such rest and peace and love. Other times I do not see so clearly, but even so I can trust Him. 

At this time I need to trust God with my life, certainly the time will come when I am ready to trust Him with my death.


----------



## dunroven (Dec 6, 2004)

I completely agree with your posts on this subject. I am ready to go the minute it is my time. If I hear cancer, so be it. I'll not take treatments. I'm ready to go home. Got more people there that care about me and that I care about waiting to see me. Why with all the wickedness and depravity of this world, would a person not be ready and willing to go at the earliest possible moment. Does this mean I would commit suicide? No, sure wouldn't, but when Jesus stretches out his hand and says come home faithful servant, I'll be smiling and ready to go! In my opinion, the sooner the better! (my choice here, not everyone elses).


----------



## donsgal (May 2, 2005)

dunroven said:


> I completely agree with your posts on this subject. I am ready to go the minute it is my time. If I hear cancer, so be it. I'll not take treatments. I'm ready to go home. Got more people there that care about me and that I care about waiting to see me. Why with all the wickedness and depravity of this world, would a person not be ready and willing to go at the earliest possible moment. Does this mean I would commit suicide? No, sure wouldn't, but when Jesus stretches out his hand and says come home faithful servant, I'll be smiling and ready to go! In my opinion, the sooner the better! (my choice here, not everyone elses).


Dunroven, your faith is impressive. However, there are people who do not believe as you believe (me, for one), so it is my philosophy that the here and how is really all we have and it is incumbent upon us to make the most of it. Therefore, I must fight the good fight as long as there is a breath in this old body. There are many different faiths and philosophies, but there are no guarantees.

donsgal


----------



## Sher (May 10, 2002)

I have to say I am where GrannyCarol and Dunroven are on this. I believe that my days and yours are numbered..whether we get cancer and succumb to it on a certain day..have an accident .. or just fall asleep..we will go home when God calls us home.

My dad had colon cancer. He did alternative treatments..and it went away..however..what the docs thought was a hiatal(sp) hernia..was really esophagal cancer. He was sorta bullied into treatment for that..and promptly quit..as his quality of life plummeted

He died with dignity..and he died on his terms..and I believe he was so ready to "go home" to the Lord. I can miss him til it hurts...but I cannot find it in myself to wish him back for even a second..because next to heaven..this world is unappealing..and he would be heartsick about the way things have/are changing.

I have been blessed with people of great faith in my life..to not only bring me to Christ..but to show me what a strong faith is and does. I fall miserably short on this..all I can do is try harder. But I think those people have been examples..and sitting with them when they were dying..was to be the eye openers for me and for, what I believe, to be next on our jounery.


----------



## CJ (May 10, 2002)

GrannyCarol said:


> I would not care to be treated, as my mother did not either when she was found to have cancer in her liver, pancreas and dotting her internal organs. What she most didn't want was to be in a hospital hooked up to tubes and not able to choose to end it. We knew a lovely sense of peace at the end and we joked and enjoyed each other. She told me that she had one thing left to do with her life and that was to show us how to die.
> 
> Frankly, I don't think I'd trade that for last ditch efforts to try to stave it off or prolong the experience. It was unpleasant and painful enough as it was.
> 
> For myself... as I see it right now, I'd be glad to go see my Maker and sit with my brothers at the marriage feast of the Lamb! I don't seek out death, but neither do I fear it, I hope for great joy and love. I've no interest in treatments to prolong my time in this world - if God wants it to be longer, He can always arrange that.  I'd rather He be my primary health giver anyway.


How beautifully put Carol! That is exactly how I feel about life and death. Thank you for expressing it so well.

The Wandering Quilter's Life in a Box!


----------



## Karen (Apr 17, 2002)

Like every issue close to our hearts, it's all a personal choice. We shouldn't fault someone for choosing to move on to eternity; just as we shouldn't fault someone for fighting to live. 

I feel this is something we have to keep in mind when we deal with terminal people in our lives. We absolutely _*must*_ respect their choice. We can make their life (or death) so much easier for them by yielding to that choice. 

It may not be what we would do, or that we wish for them, but it is, after all, their choice and they are more than entitled to their personal decision in this matter; they have earned that right. We don't have the right to make things even more difficult for them and cause them to fight us too. They need our love and support either way they choose. It's our obligation to give that to them.


----------



## COSunflower (Dec 4, 2006)

I'm with GrannyCarol too! I trust God with my life AND my death...when it's time - I won't complain. I have lots I'd like to do here on this Earth still so I'm in no rush to leave but I know that God has my number in His book so when he beckons - I will call.


----------



## RockyGlen (Jan 19, 2007)

I agree with Dunroven, GrannyCarol and the others. I'm not in any hurry, but I also would judge the quality of the time I have left verses the chance of prolonging life and being miserable in the process.

I help a lady once a week who has breast cancer that had gone into her hip before they found it. She has 4 children between the ages of 7 and 12. They told her that there was no cure, but that they could slow down the progression. She did a round of chemo and radiation that laasted 2 months and is now doing all sorts of herbal things. The treatments kept it from growing for 3 months. That was all. She says she will not do it again - she said the poor quality of life while fighting was harder on her and her family, then living out the rest of her days in peace and enjoying them while she can.

My parents (mother and stepfather) are of the philosophy that you never give in. They have left instructions that they are to be kept on life support as long as humanly possible in case whatever disease they have can be cured in the future. If they could afford to be frozen they would. They also do not belive in an afterlife. What I find amusing is that they want to be kept alive on machines for as many years as possible, yet are the biggest eco-freaks I know.


----------



## keljonma (Dec 27, 2006)

donsgal, I think while everyone knows they are going to die, having been told you have x number of days left is mind-numbing. Some people don't look for alternatives and once a medical professional tells them they are dying, they proceed to do so. Others put up a fight, but it depends on the individual's will to live.

In April 1989, my mother was diagnosed with pancreatic cancer which had spread to the liver. As these things sometimes happen, my mother hadn't been feeling well for a couple of months, but didn't say anything because my father was in the hospital for health issues. The doctors (there were many of them) predicted approximately 6 months. A stent was installed to provide liver drainage and she had two chemo treatments (FU4 as I recall) before she decided she didn't want that routine. 

When mom was diagnosed with pancreatic cancer (April 1989), I couldn't find much information about it that wasn't written for the medical expert. I wasn't sure what questions to ask until after we an an issue or problem. After her death (May 1990), Michael Landon was diagnosed with pancreatic cancer. Thankfully, he was not shy about talking about his experience with this disease and its traditional and alternative treatments. And now there is more information available to pancreatic cancer patients and their families on the internet. 

Mom was placed in the local hospice program (Hospice of the Western Reserve), a true blessing to the entire family. Among the many benefits we received, they provided a home visiting nurse, different types of therapy (music, massage) at home, and a 'hospice house' where family could stay with the patient when hospitalization was needed. Back then the hospice house was a wing on the 4th floor of the local hospital. Georginna, the visiting nurse, became a family friend, who would visit with mom and dad for an extra hour, so one of us could run errands for them. My parents never got a bill for any doctor visits, medications, supplements, or wheel chair or hospital bed when they were needed. I know because I had to handle their finances. The hospice program also provided grief counseling for the entire family, and even the grandkids benefited.

Mom was very determined to get certain things accomplished before she left us. She used me during the 13 1/2 months after diagnosis to get papers in order: funeral arrangements, services planned, headstone ordered, make sure we had a plan for dad, and things like that. We also used the time to talk genealogy and family history, two of my parents' interests. At 5'4", mom always weighed 110-112 lbs, but only weighed 70 lbs at her last weigh-in. 

On May 30th and June 5th, it will be 17 years since mom and dad left us and joined their heavenly family. With the help of the hospice program they died as they wanted: with dignity, peacefully, at home in their own bed. I whole-heartedly recommend any family going through this situation to get involved with hospice. 

regards,
keljonma


----------



## FUNKY PIONEER (Sep 20, 2005)

marvella said:


> pancreatic cancer is 100% fatal. there is no cure, or even anything to slow it down.


 My father is an NMD and has cured a few people with this who haven't metastasized yet.


----------



## Karen (Apr 17, 2002)

We had hospice for my Mom and for Grandma. I can't even begin to tell you what a blessing those folks are! Just the emotional support they give is unbelievable. So many days, they would come and do their "duties" but then just set and talk with us all. They never hurried and always seemed to be there when we needed them. 

I think the greatest help they were was to explain things to us in a manner that seemed to sink into our heads and heart. They have such a way of helping us all to grasp all that is happening; as well as what will happen. They are very frank, but so compassionate.

I've been with many people in the last stages of life (as a paralegal for a large law firm; as well as several of my own family members) and I can tell you that I have never heard someone say, "I wish I had chosen chemo, etc.". But I have heard many say they wish they had spent that time without worry, enjoying life, and putting their affairs in order, rather than clinging to that constant roller coaster "hope" -- that, "yes your doing better"; "well, now it's not so good"; "there's improvement"; "I'm sorry, it's spread further"; "this might help"; "no it didn't"; ........


----------



## culpeper (Nov 1, 2002)

I think we have to accept that personal choice comes into it. You can't tell somebody that this or that is the right way to cope with imminent death.

I strongly recommend that people who have to deal with this (either as the patient, or as a professional, or friend, or family member) should read the following book. Gruesome title, but very uplifting and quite cheerful in parts.

'On Death and Dying' by Elisabeth Kubler-Ross. 

Amongst other things, it talks about Acceptance, as one of the stages of grief. 

Grief, of course, is not always the result of death. It can come from any loss - relationship break-up, divorce, children leaving home, losing a job etc.


----------



## ajaxlucy (Jul 18, 2004)

I think it's important to respect the choices of people who are ill, too. The title of this thread shows how the OP looks at it, but some people don't see illness (and possibly end of life) as a battle in that same way. There are people, my mother included, who say they are not afraid of death, and do not think of longer life as a prize to be pursued. Not that my mom embraces unhealthy habits or anything; she eats seaweed and rice, and weighs about 100 lbs, but she drinks scotch because she likes it and says she doesn't want to do anything unusual (including medical care or herbal supplements) if she gets sick. I figure my job is to make sure she gets her way as much as possible.


----------



## chickenpie (Jun 1, 2007)

First know that "survival rates" of certain proceedures and treatments means that they are breathing, not conscious, not functional, just breathing.

Second, for many people death is not the worst thing that can happen. Death for them is a chance for an immortal life and rewards. 

Third, I have seen a three year survival rate for someone with pancreatic CA who was caught before metastisiis and immedidatly went macrobiotoic at the Kuchi Institute. But it is rare that people have that sort of sea change in their life. People tend to die as they have lived.


----------



## goatlady (May 31, 2002)

To me living means joy, being glad to wake up each morning and looking forward to what ever comes my way. My mom had esophageal cancer. I was her primary care giver for 18 months of sheer agony for her. The surgery rippedout her vocal cords, the radiation therapy killed her sense of taste, her salivary glands and her tear glands; she could not speak, she could not taste, she could not even cry. Talk about frustration! There was NO quality of life for her those last 18 months, just pain, frustration, anger - no joy, nothing to really live for. 100% of her remaining time was spent with doctors, medications, trying to breath, not sleeping, not even having the strength to walk in the sun, besides the sunlight hurt. donsgal, you can fight to survive all you chose, but why if you have no joy?


----------

