# I see where the feminists are trying to make women more like men



## FarmboyBill (Aug 19, 2005)

And the trans people are trying to make the men more like women. Wonder what the end result might be lol


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## nehimama (Jun 18, 2005)

I think the "Feminazis" are going way overboard. They don't speak for me, and I have absolutely NO USE for them!


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## Alice In TX/MO (May 10, 2002)

I am a believer in powerful women AND powerful men. 

Don’t dumb down either gender.


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## D-BOONE (Feb 9, 2016)

*I BELIEVE......
*


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## whiterock (Mar 26, 2003)

My uncles's second wife was the epitome of a Southern/Texas Lady. You would naturally use your best manners when you were around her. When she lived in far South Texas, she patrolled her fence lines with a shotgun. Enough said.


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## Alice In TX/MO (May 10, 2002)

Sounds like my kind of person.


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## Grey Mare (Jun 28, 2013)

Yep sounds like my kind of neighbor too. Not many manners now a days and yes, the feminazi really make me grind my teeth.


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## Evons hubby (Oct 3, 2005)

I've always admired a strong woman. Whiny, squalling, brats demanding their "rights" who haven't a clue.... Not so much. Men are men, women are women and most folks of both sexes know the difference, and live their lives understanding who they are and where their place is in the overall scheme of things. I like those kinda people. Feel sorry for those who don't "get it". Don't really dislike them, just mostly feel sorry that they will never be happy with themselves.


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## haypoint (Oct 4, 2006)




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## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

I've always thought this quote by Dame Rebecca West was nearly perfect- ''I myself have never been able to find out precisely what feminism is: I only know that people call me a feminist whenever I express sentiments that differentiate me from a doormat or a prostitute."


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## shawnlee (Apr 13, 2010)

Its nothing new...…..just media hype.


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## Evons hubby (Oct 3, 2005)

Irish Pixie said:


> I've always thought this quote by Dame Rebecca West was nearly perfect- ''I myself have never been able to find out precisely what feminism is: I only know that people call me a feminist whenever I express sentiments that differentiate me from a doormat or a prostitute."


Makes one wonder why anyone would need such differentiation?


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## Alice In TX/MO (May 10, 2002)

Society acts as if it’s new. NOPE.


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## haypoint (Oct 4, 2006)

Some folks go lookin' for a fight. Holding a door for a woman gets viewed as sexist. Offering your chair to a woman is sexist. A casual comment, " Nice dress." is sexist. Letting the door slam in her face is treating her like a doormat. Acknowledging the manicure, hairdo, makeup with, " You look nice today." is treating her like a prostitute. 
Men and women are different. Pretending they are the same runs you into trouble. Women expect equal pay and equal representation in male dominated occupations, but I've never seen affirmative action ensuring half the wait staff are dudes.


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## Alice In TX/MO (May 10, 2002)

Tell me l look nice. Hold the door. 

I will appreciate it.


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## [email protected] (Sep 16, 2009)

I don't get it. some women are self proclaimed man
haters. but they still end up pregnant..?? and if men are so disgusting, why do these man haters want to become one or at least act like a man ?
I know several of both sexes that are gay. they are nice people. then there are some that are so rude and anti social that it doesn't matter to me what they are. I don't like them either way..
the Native Americans had gay men. they just accepted them for what they were..
My Native American friend told me what name they were called. I don't recall what it is, but it was not nasty..
I suspect that a great number of gays today are just trying it out as a fad..


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## nehimama (Jun 18, 2005)

Alice In TX/MO said:


> Tell me l look nice. Hold the door.
> 
> I will appreciate it.


Yes, Alice!!! When a kind man (or woman) holds a door for me, I always say, "Thank You so much!" I will also hold doors open for others. I really do appreciate the gesture. If someone tells me I look nice, I also appreciate that.


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## FarmboyBill (Aug 19, 2005)

stach, I suppose the woman haters that are pregnant are the ones the men abandoned when they found out.


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## newfieannie (Dec 24, 2006)

well most likely that would make you hate that one man but not all men. i had a husband who was controlling but i still like men always have. ~Georgia


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## IndyDave (Jul 17, 2017)

Sometimes it seems that people mistake equality in principle for absolute equality. It is important to understand the difference.


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## haypoint (Oct 4, 2006)

I've had conversations with a few of my liberal female friends (I know, shocking) and I've tried to see the world through their eyes. I don't know if their opinions are typical, but I suspect they are.
They are hyper-alert to getting raped. Going to a Bar alone, walking in a sparsely populated area, even being alone with a man they know, presents a real fear of being raped. Any attention from a stranger could cause alarm as she feels targeted, which ends up with a sexual assault.

Universities teach that unwanted touching and unwanted attention are forms of sexual assault. So, when a study is made, most female college students will admit to being sexually assaulted, when it might have been as minor as a wolf whistle. Starkly different from horrific forced groping or rape.

I think most guys don't think about rape. Being raped or committing a rape are far from thought. Perhaps a concern over being somewhere that they might get robbed or perhaps beat up, but it isn't at the forefront of thought.

So, I believe from these far differing viewpoints, we get mixed messages. Having never been threatened with rape or knowing any guy that might consider rape, claims of rape are looked upon with suspicion. Provide a shred of evidence and I want harsh punishment. However, I don't see a complement from a stranger as a sexual assault and such claims broaden the spectrum of what is assault.

It often comes as a surprise to guys that their acts of kindness are seen as bad behavior. If I see a person in the side of the expressway, with the hood of their car up or a spare tire laying behind the vehicle, I might want to help. But, in reality, that person most likely has a cell phone and by offering help just causes alarm. As a former jogger, I understand the personal commitment it takes to get out there and exert the effort to get into shape. It seems totally fine, to me, to beep the horn and wave or give a "thumbs up" to a jogger. But to some women, they see my action as a potential stalker and instead of " thanks for the support", it is a threat.

I grew up being taught to be polite. I hold the door for seniors and women. A few times I've been criticized, " I can get the door myself!". Sometimes I get a quick, " Thank you." But most often, I don't get an acknowledgement at all. Hard to tell if they are just rude, don't want to engage me in conversation or resentful for my actions.

When I was a foreman in a factory, stamping out car parts, everyone was paid the same. Should I assign jobs without regard to strengths? Is it fair to always have guys do the heavy lifting jobs? Is it fair to assume that women are better at jobs requiring more detail? Making such a judgment is clearly sexist.


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## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

haypoint said:


> I've had conversations with a few of my liberal female friends (I know, shocking) and I've tried to see the world through their eyes. I don't know if their opinions are typical, but I suspect they are.
> They are hyper-alert to getting raped. Going to a Bar alone, walking in a sparsely populated area, even being alone with a man they know, presents a real fear of being raped. Any attention from a stranger could cause alarm as she feels targeted, which ends up with a sexual assault.
> 
> Universities teach that unwanted touching and unwanted attention are forms of sexual assault. So, when a study is made, most female college students will admit to being sexually assaulted, when it might have been as minor as a wolf whistle. Starkly different from horrific forced groping or rape.
> ...


Don't you think that women know the difference between a wolf whistle, groping, rape, and gang rape? I guarantee that if you had been sexually assaulted (to any degree) you would "hyper-alert to getting raped. Going to a Bar alone, walking in a sparsely populated area, even being alone with a man they know, presents a real fear of being raped. Any attention from a stranger could cause alarm as she feels targeted, which ends up with a sexual assault." Rape shatters women, completely and totally. Therefore, women protect themselves by being cautious and careful, even women that haven't been raped because every woman knows it _could_ happen. Most (if not all) women have experienced unwanted attention from men. Men are raped and sexually assaulted as well. 

I give everyone a cheerful thank you if they've done something nice for me, always. I am not nice and cheerful if a man moves in too close, or makes ambiguous remarks regarding my looks or the way I'm dressed. Further, women have to be careful how they rebuff a man because some men don't take that well, and will hurt you. Women are cautious for very good reasons. 

Perhaps this website can help: https://www.rainn.org/


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## IndyDave (Jul 17, 2017)

I am reminded of a bit of advice I was given quite a few years back: Trust everyone, but you still cut the cards. In other words, issue genuine trust sparingly but don't act overtly paranoid.

Where I see this applying here is that it is inherently dangerous for women to fail to see to their own safety and security but most normal men will come to resent being treated as potential rapists for no reason beyond possession of a Y chromosome.

I would also point out that if we were to start curing rapists of their lead deficiencies, we should eventually run out of them.


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## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

IndyDave said:


> I am reminded of a bit of advice I was given quite a few years back: Trust everyone, but you still cut the cards. In other words, issue genuine trust sparingly but don't act overtly paranoid.
> 
> Where I see this applying here is that it is inherently dangerous for women to fail to see to their own safety and security but most normal men will come to resent being treated as potential rapists for no reason beyond possession of a Y chromosome.
> 
> I would also point out that if we were to start curing rapists of their lead deficiencies, we should eventually run out of them.


I agree that most men won't rape, but how do you tell by looking at them? In my experience, it's best to be cautious. 

If a man makes the hair on the back of my neck stand up, I'm out. I know how rape shatters a person's soul.


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## Grey Mare (Jun 28, 2013)

I appreciate when a man has manners, when they hold a door open for a woman, or open the door of the car for one to get in. My husband does all that, when it rains, he will hold the umbrella for both of us, but ensuring I don't get wet, he says thank you, please, as does our son. They are polite in public, and will help someone if they need help, regardless of age or if they are male or female. I took his last name because I am his wife, it made him proud of that. My husband married into a farm family and his actions with my horses and all our animals tells me the contents of his heart, he is genuine and kind. That is something I love about him.

I appreciate a man...not one that is whiny, who is rude, callous, or doesn't keep themselves neat and clean. I want one that knows what he wants, goes after it, appreciates what he has and treats his wife and children well, as well as provide for them. I also like it that we never tell tales about one another outside the home, meaning we don't talk bad about one another, but then again, we work on our marriage, something people now a days don't want to do, put the time and effort into keeping it strong...and yes, even marriage is going to the way side and people want to shack up and not have a commitment. 

Yes, rape does change a person...my daughter is a beautiful outgoing woman who was raped at 15...she is alert and watches when were in public. She has nightmares every so often now, as she is 31 years old, but she said that it never truly leaves you, the trauma. That being said, she doesn't make herself a target, she dresses well and as I have taught her, to always have manners, always be a lady, and appreciate a man for what he does for you. Her husband is a wonderful man and shows it each day.


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## haypoint (Oct 4, 2006)

Irish Pixie said:


> Don't you think that women know the difference between a wolf whistle, groping, rape, and gang rape?


Certainly. But when questioned, " Have you ever been sexually assaulted on Campus?", this hyper sensitivity has most women recalling a wolf whistle, an unexpected hug, a suggestive remark as a reason to answer in the affirmative. The result is that most female college students have been sexually assaulted.

If a stranger yells across campus, " Hey, your Mother wears combat boots." That's an insult that I just shrug off. But if a stranger yells, " Hey babe, I'd like to eat you up." That's a sex crime and worthy of a vast investigation.

Perhaps the hair on the back of your neck is feeding your underlying distrust of men. If 20% of the men you encounter make your skin crawl, you can construct, in your mind, the belief that 20% of men, given the opportunity would rape you. Sort of taints your view of the world.

I'll grant you that most women have gotten unwanted attention from men. I have gotten unwanted attention from men. Big deal. I worked where the threat of rape was real. But as a man, I cannot imagine what the effect of rape might be. Clearly, it shatters some and others are less effected. Add to the complexities of the trauma, there are varying degrees of rape. Sex with a boyfriend that you are thinking about breaking up with, while naked in bed with him, you don't give him permission and you have sex, even though you really didn't want to, is, in my mind, worlds away from getting snatched out of your car, drug into an alley and raped. Both are rape, but there are degrees to consider. 

Earlier you mentioned that anything that made you feel like a doormat or a prostitute was wrong. But what you feel in every situation is subject to your choice in how you will perceive it.
" I had a nice time with you tonight. I'm glad you enjoyed the concert and dinner. I'd like to take you to my cottage at the lake next weekend." could be a developing romance. But you could also read that to mean, " I've spent money on you, I'm willing to spend more money on you, but it is about time you start providing some sex in exchange for the money I've spent." Now, you feel like a prostitute. If your brain automatically goes there, because you actually do have sexual assault baggage or you have erected/imagined fears based only on the hairs of your neck, I can see an escalation of potential rapists at every turn.

Then, if these men, apparently predisposed to rape, get a promotion ahead of you, disagree with your politics or make an unwanted compliment, it might be quite easy to tear into them, vent your seething anger, put them back in their respective places, assert yourself, lest they take advantage of you, again. I find that quite sad.


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## haypoint (Oct 4, 2006)

Irish Pixie said:


> Therefore, women protect themselves by being cautious and careful, even women that haven't been raped because every woman knows it _could_ happen.


Perspective. My chances of getting into a serious car accident are greater than your chances of being violently raped. Thousands die from auto accidents each year. But, when I turn the key in my car, I don't turn on my fear of dying emotion. When a driver changes lanes in front of me, I don't assume they were intent on killing me.

I've gone outside when it is raining, even though I know being struck by lightening is far more common than rape. I don't fear lightening because it "could" happen.

I travel at a safe speed, look out for the other guy. But I don't see every car as a potential killer. I have nothing that I can equate to the emotional response a woman may or may not have to any degree of assault. I find it sad that for some women this remote fear looms large in their day to day activities. I'll hold the door for you if that helps.


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## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

haypoint said:


> Certainly. But when questioned, " Have you ever been sexually assaulted on Campus?", this hyper sensitivity has most women recalling a wolf whistle, an unexpected hug, a suggestive remark as a reason to answer in the affirmative. The result is that most female college students have been sexually assaulted.
> 
> If a stranger yells across campus, " Hey, your Mother wears combat boots." That's an insult that I just shrug off. But if a stranger yells, " Hey babe, I'd like to eat you up." That's a sex crime and worthy of a vast investigation.
> 
> ...


I don't think verbal sexual taunts are criminal, do you have a link? Grabbing, groping, unwanted sexual touching, yes they can be criminal. 

You still don't understand consent, do you? Have you been raped? Sexually assaulted? I don't mean unwanted attention that you brushed off? Imagine a man holding you down and violating you against your will. There is nothing you can do to stop it, you scream, fight, hit, kick, and you are overwhelmed and violated. That never goes away, it doesn't matter if it was a person you knew, had been intimate with prior, or a stranger. If you had been sexually assaulted, you'd learn to be careful and cautious. Anything else is simply stupid. 

I never said this, "Earlier you mentioned that anything that made you feel like a doormat or a prostitute was wrong." It's your opinion of a quote I put up by Dame Rebecca West, I never said anything of the sort. The rest of that paragraph is simply your opinion as well. 

Seething anger? Out to get all men? Seriously? Very fanciful, and very wrong in most cases. 

It's my opinion that men that brush off rape and sexual assault as trivial, or try to use it as a diversion, have had non consensual sex in the past (or currently) and want to legitimize what they've done. It may have been something like getting a woman drunk enough to use for sex, or getting her alone and pushing past her hesitation, something along those lines.

I've never understood how a woman, especially one that was raped or knew someone who was, could ever justify it in any way. Unfathomable.


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## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

haypoint said:


> Perspective. My chances of getting into a serious car accident are greater than your chances of being violently raped. Thousands die from auto accidents each year. But, when I turn the key in my car, I don't turn on my fear of dying emotion. When a driver changes lanes in front of me, I don't assume they were intent on killing me.
> 
> I've gone outside when it is raining, even though I know being struck by lightening is far more common than rape. I don't fear lightening because it "could" happen.
> 
> I travel at a safe speed, look out for the other guy. But I don't see every car as a potential killer. I have nothing that I can equate to the emotional response a woman may or may not have to any degree of assault. I find it sad that for some women this remote fear looms large in their day to day activities. I'll hold the door for you if that helps.


Having been raped at 12, I can assure you that it does happen, and that I never ever want it to happen again. Thus, careful and cautious. All women know rape could happen. 

Your accident/car comparison is simply ridiculous. A car accident isn't a violation of your body and your soul.


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## haypoint (Oct 4, 2006)

Irish Pixie said:


> Having been raped at 12, I can assure you that it does happen, and that I never ever want it to happen again. Thus, careful and cautious. All women know rape could happen.
> 
> Your accident/car comparison is simply ridiculous. A car accident isn't a violation of your body and your soul.


I already said I have no way to imagine it. Certainly, a car accident can and often does cause lifelong debilitating injury to both mind and body.
Is it inconceivable that a person could recover from a rape and not recover from a car accident?
You have my condolences for that long ago sexual assault. It concerns me that i appears to have tainted many facets of your life. Seems your road to recovery has been a challenge for you.


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## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

haypoint said:


> I already said I have no way to imagine it. Certainly, a car accident can and often does cause lifelong debilitating injury to both mind and body.
> Is it inconceivable that a person could recover from a rape and not recover from a car accident?
> You have my condolences for that long ago sexual assault. It concerns me that i appears to have tainted many facets of your life. Seems your road to recovery has been a challenge for you.


I don't want nor need your condolences on my long ago rape. I've come to terms on what happened to me, but I'll never stop advocating for rape victims.


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## Oxankle (Jun 20, 2003)

Only once in my life have I had a woman object to my holding a door open for her. I can do without that one woman in my universe. I told a woman not long ago to go tell her husband that he had done well. She blinked, thought for a split second, then smiled and walked on. You usually do not have much time to pay compliments to strange ladies.


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## wr (Aug 10, 2003)

haypoint said:


> Perspective. My chances of getting into a serious car accident are greater than your chances of being violently raped. Thousands die from auto accidents each year. But, when I turn the key in my car, I don't turn on my fear of dying emotion. When a driver changes lanes in front of me, I don't assume they were intent on killing me.
> 
> I've gone outside when it is raining, even though I know being struck by lightening is far more common than rape. I don't fear lightening because it "could" happen.
> 
> I travel at a safe speed, look out for the other guy. But I don't see every car as a potential killer. I have nothing that I can equate to the emotional response a woman may or may not have to any degree of assault. I find it sad that for some women this remote fear looms large in their day to day activities. I'll hold the door for you if that helps.


I don't think there's anything wrong with women being mindful of their surroundings and in my case, it's not that I anticipate I'll be raped nor is it a fear of men. It's just a precaution, just like people who use seat belts, turn signals, shoulder check, stop at red lights, etc. 

I wouldn't leave my purse on the seat of my unlocked car for a thief so I can see no real reason to set myself up as an easy target for a mugger, purse snatcher or maybe even a rapist.


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## Bob M. (Nov 5, 2018)

haypoint said:


> Universities teach that unwanted touching and unwanted attention are forms of sexual assault.


I'd say repeated anything is harassment, and repeated unwanted touching would probably be assault....if done in a sexual manner would probably also be sexual assault. what am I missing, or how would that be wrong?

I mean once in a casual type manner is just normal, but once a person tells you not to, then it becomes more than casual, imo...and of course the way it is done can determine its severity, but still regardless of how minor it may be at first, doing it again, after being asked not to, should be considered assault, probably.


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## haypoint (Oct 4, 2006)

Bob M. said:


> I'd say repeated anything is harassment, and repeated unwanted touching would probably be assault....if done in a sexual manner would probably also be sexual assault. what am I missing, or how would that be wrong?
> 
> I mean once in a casual type manner is just normal, but once a person tells you not to, then it becomes more than casual, imo...and of course the way it is done can determine its severity, but still regardless of how minor it may be at first, doing it again, after being asked not to, should be considered assault, probably.


I'm fairly sure the Feminist Movement doesn't issue "Mulligans". You don't say or touch until granted written, notarized, verbal, witnessed, permission first. Unwanted, first time comment or action is wrong, no matter if it seemed right at the time, in that situation or in your reading of her smile or batting eyelids.

You might have a night of hot sex and upon the rising sun, she declares that at no time did she offer any direction for you to proceed as you did, that her apparent acceptance was out of a fear for her safety, then you, my naïve friend, are a rapist. The declaration of rape might come the next morning, as soon as she realizes you don't intend on calling her back, next year or 30 years later when you are appointed to the Supreme Court. Rape is a serious indefensible crime.


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## hiddensprings (Aug 6, 2009)

Women are so often their own worst enemies. I'm not speaking about rape or sexual harassment. I speaking about the general feminist movement especially as we see it today. The Women's March, which was supposed to be a gathering of women to fight for the rights of women, doesn't want me a conservative, gun-owner, who believes we should have strong border walls. They have nothing to do with Women's rights; they simply don't like the current administration. My liberal Aunts, Cousins, etc basically told me I could turn in my "women's card" because I don't share their views on so many topics related to women as they see them. I don't want to be a man....I like who I am.


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## Bob M. (Nov 5, 2018)

ya...I'd like to argue with that, except I can't...its true there are many such woman who do exactly that. Touché.

I wouldn't honestly be surprised at all if really the feminist movement wasn't started by a guy in the first place.


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## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

hiddensprings said:


> Women are so often their own worst enemies. I'm not speaking about rape or sexual harassment. I speaking about the general feminist movement especially as we see it today. The Women's March, which was supposed to be a gathering of women to fight for the rights of women, doesn't want me a conservative, gun-owner, who believes we should have strong border walls. They have nothing to do with Women's rights; they simply don't like the current administration. My liberal Aunts, Cousins, etc basically told me I could turn in my "women's card" because I don't share their views on so many topics related to women as they see them. I don't want to be a man....I like who I am.


Some women are closed minded. Some men are closed minded. Just as they judge you by their set of beliefs, you are judging them by yours.


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## shawnlee (Apr 13, 2010)

If one lets their mind run wild, after a while it becomes hard to sort reality from perceived paranoia ……..it all melts into a skewed reality where decisions get made on instincts, instead of solid logical choices and when those instinct decisions are made on skewed perceptions.....crazy things happen.


With much knowledge comes much sorrow...….just go get a education on recognizing mental disorders...….hint, most people have a disorder or 10, luckily they are high functioning disorders in most people.


Hint, it is getting worse......the trend is more..... and more of them are less capable of high functioning …….


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## Bob M. (Nov 5, 2018)

painterswife said:


> Some women are closed minded. Some men are closed minded. Just as they judge you by their set of beliefs, you are judging them by yours.


No we aren't. and thats that.


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## hiddensprings (Aug 6, 2009)

painterswife said:


> Some women are closed minded. Some men are closed minded. Just as they judge you by their set of beliefs, you are judging them by yours.


 Well, I have my opinion and they have theirs. Not really "judging". The whole point being if women want a collective voice, they need include all opinions not just some. Which goes back to my first statement about women being their own worst enemies. We can't agree with each other so how are men supposed to know what to do, say, etc.


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## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

hiddensprings said:


> Well, I have my opinion and they have theirs. Not really "judging". The whole point being if women want a collective voice, they need include all opinions not just some. *Which goes back to my first statement about women being their own worst enemies. * We can't agree with each other so how are men supposed to know what to do, say, etc.


Yet another judgment of all women.


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## Evons hubby (Oct 3, 2005)

hiddensprings said:


> Well, I have my opinion and they have theirs. Not really "judging". The whole point being if women want a collective voice, they need include all opinions not just some. Which goes back to my first statement about women being their own worst enemies. We can't agree with each other so how are men supposed to know what to do, say, etc.


Men aren't supposed to know what to do or say when it comes to women. We are simply spose to love and take care of them.  that works fer me!


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## Twp.Tom (Dec 29, 2010)

RESPECT, this is all that most People want. Left,Right, white, black,young,old,male, female. If you can't be respectful, it's only a matter of time before someone, or something-will teach You?


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## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

Twp.Tom said:


> RESPECT, this is all that most People want. Left,Right, white, black,young,old,male, female. If you can't be respectful, it's only a matter of time before someone, or something-will teach You?


Exactly, spot on, and simple. Thank you.


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## whiterock (Mar 26, 2003)

I have a belief that many older men are afraid of women now. They like women, enjoy women and being in the company of women, but, they are afraid of the consequences of being charged by women for perceived assault. I wouldn't touch a woman in any manner that might be misconstrued. There are women and girls that I hug and that hug me at church. In the open, in public, with witnesses. I don't get within 2 feet of a woman unless the aisle in the store is too narrow to be farther away. I'll speak to them. That is as far as I will go. 

I refuse to put myself in a precarious position. I don't have much, but I have too much to lose. Tangible and intangible. I have known of too many instances where a man, especially young men, have had their lives ruined by a lie told by an angry woman. Many young male sex offenders, whose name and reputation is eternally questioned, did nothing but have a relationship with a girl that was a minor when they were over the age of consent. 

Stories and claims with no truth come after a man who did nothing untoward just because someone wants to hurt them. Teachers , preachers, priests, scout leaders, etc are accused of wrongs they are not guilty of . Some are, to be sure, but in many cases it is a one sided accusation with no more proof that a story told years later.

A paranoid man is now a prudent man.


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## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

whiterock said:


> I have a belief that many older men are afraid of women now. They like women, enjoy women and being in the company of women, but, they are afraid of the consequences of being charged by women for perceived assault. I wouldn't touch a woman in any manner that might be misconstrued. There are women and girls that I hug and that hug me at church. In the open, in public, with witnesses. I don't get within 2 feet of a woman unless the aisle in the store is too narrow to be farther away. I'll speak to them. That is as far as I will go.
> 
> I refuse to put myself in a precarious position. I don't have much, but I have too much to lose. Tangible and intangible. I have known of too many instances where a man, especially young men, have had their lives ruined by a lie told by an angry woman. Many young male sex offenders, whose name and reputation is eternally questioned, did nothing but have a relationship with a girl that was a minor when they were over the age of consent.
> 
> ...


Do you touch *men* you don't know? Don't touch a woman you don't know, it's a simple concept. 

No one is a sex offender unless they were convicted of a criminal sexual assault and put on a sex offender registry. Period. A minor cannot consent to sex. Period. You clearly do not understand consent. It isn't rocket science. Consent means a person above the consent in that state agreed to sexual contact.


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## whiterock (Mar 26, 2003)

two teens have sex, turns out one is 16, just shy of 17 the other just turned 18. Been doing it for a year. Parent finds out. Now the 18 yo is a sex offender. Maybe the consent thing is bull hockey in this case. I know of more than one case like this, not hearsay on internet, but people I know.


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## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

whiterock said:


> two teens have sex, turns out one is 16, just shy of 17 the other just turned 18. Been doing it for a year. Parent finds out. Now the 18 yo is a sex offender. Maybe the consent thing is bull hockey in this case. I know of more than one case like this, not hearsay on internet, but people I know.


Nope. The person who had sex with a minor, and is convicted of it, is a sex offender. And should be because a minor *can't* consent to sex.

ETA: Do you touch men you don't know? If no, why?


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## whiterock (Mar 26, 2003)

Only when I shake hands on introductions. BTW, some of the men at church are huggers to both sexes.
I am not open to debate on this. I stated a personal belief. Take it or leave it.


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## [email protected] (Sep 16, 2009)

I sure would hate to be young and in the dating world.
I would be scared to death to approach any female.
IP, did you even read the post from whiterock?
I know someone that it happened to also.
young teens who were having sex before either of them turned 18. then the guy turned 18. come on, they are not going to just turn it off because of that.
i will bet that they don't even think of it..
////jiminwisc////


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

hiddensprings said:


> Women are so often their own worst enemies.


Some certainly are.


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## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

[email protected] said:


> I sure would hate to be young and in the dating world.
> I would be scared to death to approach any female.
> IP, did you even read the post from whiterock?
> I know someone that it happened to also.
> ...


Yes, I did. Do you understand that it's illegal to have sex with a minor? A minor can't consent to sex. Period. It's not the minute he turns 18 in most states anyway, there is usually a 2-3 year age difference. "The laws were designed to prosecute people far older than the victims rather than teenagers close in age; therefore prosecutors rarely pursued teenagers in relationships with other teenagers even though the wordings of the laws made some close-in-age teenage relationships illegal. After the 1995 Landry and Forrest study concluded that men aged 20 and older produced half of the teenage pregnancies of girls between 15 and 17, states began to more stringently enforce age-of-consent laws to combat teenage pregnancy in addition to prevent adults from taking advantage of minors.[7] A backlash among the public occurred when some teenagers engaging in close-in-age relationships received punishments perceived by the public to be disproportionate,[8] and thus age-gap provisions were installed to reduce or eliminate penalties if the two parties are close in age.[9] Brittany Logino Smith and Glen A. Kercher of the Criminal Justice Center of Sam Houston State University wrote that these laws are often referred to as "Romeo and Juliet laws", though they defined Romeo and Juliet as only referring to an affirmative defense against prosecution.[10] Previously some of these statutes only applied to heterosexual sex, leaving homosexual sex in the same age range open to prosecution.[11]" From: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ages_of_consent_in_the_United_States

It's not difficult, ask if it's OK to touch a woman and you can't get in a bit of trouble. 

I read this on Facebook, but it's absolutely true: Don't say or do anything to a woman that you wouldn't want said or done to you in prison. Simple.


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## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

whiterock said:


> Only when I shake hands on introductions. BTW, some of the men at church are huggers to both sexes.
> I am not open to debate on this. I stated a personal belief. Take it or leave it.


Can't get in trouble shaking hands with a woman. If both parties are happy with the hug it's all good.


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## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

Bearfootfarm said:


> Some certainly are.


Some women know their worth, and won't be treated as worth less.


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

Irish Pixie said:


> Some women know their worth, and won't be treated as worth less.


That has nothing at all to do with my comment.
That's your opinion.


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## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

Bearfootfarm said:


> That has nothing at all to do with my comment.
> That's your opinion.


Yes, it is my opinion. If more women realized their worth the world would be a better place. Also my opinion.


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

Irish Pixie said:


> Yes, it is *my opinion*. If more women realized their worth the world would be a better place. Also *my opinion*.


SSDD


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## FarmboyBill (Aug 19, 2005)

Nope, not worth the arguing. lol


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## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

Bearfootfarm said:


> SSDD


And we have now begun the downward spiral of insults...


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## shawnlee (Apr 13, 2010)

Irish Pixie said:


> Can't get in trouble shaking hands with a woman. If both parties are happy with the hug it's all good.



Until they change their mind later.....I will pass, just say NO!


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

Irish Pixie said:


> And we have now begun the downward spiral of insults...


You've said that before too.
The longer you continue to repeat yourself, the more you confirm everything I've said.


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## Evons hubby (Oct 3, 2005)

Irish Pixie said:


> Do you touch *men* you don't know? Don't touch a woman you don't know, it's a simple concept.
> 
> No one is a sex offender unless they were convicted of a criminal sexual assault and put on a sex offender registry. Period. A minor cannot consent to sex. Period. You clearly do not understand consent. It isn't rocket science. Consent means a person above the consent in that state agreed to sexual contact.


You can beleive that a minor cannot consent to sex ifn ya wants to.... But there is a mountain of evidence out there that proves it wrong wrong wrong. There are a lot of underage teens giving consent every day. Now, if you want legal definitions which vary widely from state to state that's I little different, but even then the laws often allow consent between two minors. Very few minors hold law degrees, but many do grant consent just the same. And no, it's not rocket science... It's basic biology.


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

Yvonne's hubby said:


> You can beleive that a minor cannot consent to sex ifn ya wants to.... But there is a mountain of evidence out there that proves it wrong wrong wrong.


In most states the age of consent is 16.
"Minor" means different things in different contexts, so all the details are needed.


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## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

shawnlee said:


> Until they change their mind later.....I will pass, just say NO!


I've never considered shaking hands as being sexual. Huh.


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## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

Yvonne's hubby said:


> You can beleive that a minor cannot consent to sex ifn ya wants to.... But there is a mountain of evidence out there that proves it wrong wrong wrong. There are a lot of underage teens giving consent every day. Now, if you want legal definitions which vary widely from state to state that's I little different, but even then the laws often allow consent between two minors. Very few minors hold law degrees, but many do grant consent just the same. And no, it's not rocket science... It's basic biology.


Legally minors cannot consent to sex, you absolutely know this, and the legal aspect of sexual assault is what has been discussed over the last few pages of this thread. So I don't know what you're going on about now. I linked the ages of consent in post #53, maybe you missed it?


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## IndyDave (Jul 17, 2017)

It seems to me that multiple discussions are being conducted here:

1. What is acceptable under the law?

2. What is right and proper?

3. What happens in practice?

I am inclined to think that a better discussion could happen by adding clarity on the boundaries between these separate and distinct questions.


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## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

Consensual sex/touching is acceptable under the law, and to most people. 

Consensual sex/touching is right and proper to most people.

Non-consensual sex/touching is what happens in real life. It varies in level from inappropriate touching to rape. It used to be that women kept their mouths shut about it, most because they wouldn't be believed. Now that there are groups of people that are listening to these stories, and men are being held accountable. As it should be.

Then there are those that try to make light of sexual assault by adding in that teenagers have sex with each other all the time, which wasn't the topic of the conversation. It goes back what I said in a prior post, "It's my opinion that men that brush off rape and sexual assault as trivial, or try to use it as a diversion, have had non consensual sex in the past (or currently) and want to legitimize what they've done. It may have been something like getting a woman drunk enough to use for sex, or getting her alone and pushing past her hesitation, something along those lines."


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## whiterock (Mar 26, 2003)

IP, you keep saying you can't get into trouble. Sorry, that's hogwash. All it takes is an angry, vindictive woman to make a charge, and a life and career can be ruined. Even if it can't be proved. I have seen this.
I am not discounting what does happen to women that actually are violated. I am talking about what has and will continue to be done. Some people are in a position that nothing can become something with a lie.

I have never forced my attentions on a woman. The reason being that I have always been leery of having one make false charges against me. Even in the late 60s and early 70s when most everyone was free and easy. I always held back. Still I have seen men ruined by a couple of teen age girls that decided to tell a story to get even. Career and marriage ruined. I have also seen cases where some young men were tempted to do wrong by girls that lied about their age and their overly developed body helped to make the lie convincing. I don't have to concern myself about that now. Anyone under about 60 is too young


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## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

whiterock said:


> IP, you keep saying you can't get into trouble. Sorry, that's hogwash. All it takes is an angry, vindictive woman to make a charge, and a life and career can be ruined. Even if it can't be proved. I have seen this.
> I am not discounting what does happen to women that actually are violated. I am talking about what has and will continue to be done. Some people are in a position that nothing can become something with a lie.


Really what has changed? Angry vindictive people of both sexes could always find a way to hurt another person.


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)




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## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

That was a bizarre video that is largely not understood, is it the pedophile Spacey or his online character?


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## FarmboyBill (Aug 19, 2005)

Wish Ida understood the full meaning of that lol


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## FarmboyBill (Aug 19, 2005)

IP You say shaking hands shouldn't be considered sexual. What if I shook your hand hard enough to make the puppys dance. Mightnt someone try to consider that sexual LOL


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## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

FarmboyBill said:


> IP You say shaking hands shouldn't be considered sexual. What if I shook your hand hard enough to make the puppys dance. Mightnt someone try to consider that sexual LOL


Still not sexual, creepy, wrong, and weird, but not sexual.

ETA: And I'd probably mash my knee into your genitalia.


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## oneraddad (Jul 20, 2010)

Irish Pixie said:


> Still not sexual, creepy, wrong, and weird, but not sexual.
> 
> ETA: And I'd probably mash my knee into your genitalia.



I knew you were violent


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## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

oneraddad said:


> I knew you were violent


I can be if the situation arises. Shaking my hand until other parts of my anatomy move is an aggressive action, I will react.

Why do you personally comment to me? What does it do for you?

ETA: It's creepy.


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## whiterock (Mar 26, 2003)

The knee jerk would be appropriate. More so than coming back in a few years to bring charges.


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## Evons hubby (Oct 3, 2005)

Irish Pixie said:


> Still not sexual, creepy, wrong, and weird, but not sexual.
> 
> ETA: *And I'd probably mash my knee into your genitalia*.


That sounds like sexual assault to me.


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## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

Yvonne's hubby said:


> That sounds like sexual assault to me.


I'm sure it does to you.


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## Evons hubby (Oct 3, 2005)

Irish Pixie said:


> I can be if the situation arises. Shaking my hand until other parts of my anatomy move is an aggressive action, I will react.
> 
> Why do you personally comment to me? What does it do for you?
> 
> ETA: It's creepy.


A lot of men have reactions when women shake parts of their anatomy too.


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## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

Yvonne's hubby said:


> A lot of men have reactions when women shake parts of their anatomy too.


Kinda creepy when the discussion is sexual assault, especially with wink emoji.


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## Evons hubby (Oct 3, 2005)

Irish Pixie said:


> Kinda creepy when the discussion is sexual assault, especially with wink emoji.


Kinda naive to think it doesn't happen. Sometimes it can lead to sexual assault.


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## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

Yvonne's hubby said:


> Kinda naive to think it doesn't happen.


I know it happens. And your post is still creepy in the context of this thread.


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## emdeengee (Apr 20, 2010)

Feminism is a range of political movements, ideologies, and social movements that share a common goal: to define, establish, and achieve political, economic, personal, and social equality of sexes. This includes seeking to establish educational and professional opportunities for women that are equal to those for men.

The key word here is "range". As with every ideology, social movement or political belief there are those who will always be more outspoken, demanding, extreme and violent. 

"Well behaved women seldom make history" is a well known quote and very accurate. If women have become more demanding and extreme in their requirements for equality and distrust men in power it is the result of learning the hard way. American women were beaten, imprisoned, tortured and died at the instruction of American men - because they wanted the vote.

Over fifty years after the start of the movement for equality women are still not equal and in many countries have no rights at all. Much as it was in the US, Canada, Britain, Australia, France, Germany and sooo many other countries up until less than 100 years ago. Nothing for the men of these countries to be proud of. 

As for behaving like men. Please. Women have always had to do the work of men so this is nothing new. Who took over the running of countries, cities, agriculture and industry when men were off fighting wars? Women. Just never got acknowledgement for this.

Why have men been the leaders, inventors, industrialists and creators controlling the money and power? Because women were not allowed to be educated. That certainly has changed - which definitely threatens many men. Those who know who they are are more than willing to let women be who they are and can be.


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## Evons hubby (Oct 3, 2005)

Irish Pixie said:


> I know it happens. And your post is still creepy in the context of this thread.


Normal biological funtions are "creepy"? Interesting to say the least.


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## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

Yvonne's hubby said:


> Normal biological funtions are "creepy"? Interesting to say the least.


Context, as they say, is everything...


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## haypoint (Oct 4, 2006)

Irish Pixie said:


> Kinda creepy when the discussion is sexual assault, especially with wink emoji.


Actually, this discussion is about Feminists wanting women to be more manly and the Tranies wanting men to be more ladylike.
As most discussions drift, the drift was how Feminists seem to be looking for a fight or a reason to be offended. Broadening the definition of sexual assault to include words, so every woman can be a part of the Me Too Movement. "Looking for a fight" might be their hashtag.
You were getting your dander up about a poster that was starting to worry about hugging the gals and your rule of thumb is if you aren't touching other dudes, you shouldn't touch gals.

The discussion was more about the shifting of what is assault and what isn't and that the line isn't always as clear as you might wish it were.

I think most folk reading about a woman grabbing and shaking a dude's junk is humorous. That your brain goes to the legal definition of assault and it isn't funny, might be an indication of some unresolved issues from your past. You'll be upset a lot if men that take advantage of women make you angry and you feel most men have sexual assault on their minds. You'll often be upset if you think most men take advantage or ridicule Gay dudes or hate Lesbians. You'll be angry a lot if you expect the population to know what LGBTUQ means and the unique definitions of each group.


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## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

My dander is fine, and I suggest you reread my posts because you seem to be not reading them for comprehension.


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## Evons hubby (Oct 3, 2005)

A lot of women like to be angry. Or at least it seems that way.


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## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

Yvonne's hubby said:


> A lot of women like to be angry. Or at least it seems that way.


It probably seems like that to you...


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

Irish Pixie said:


> I probably seems like that to you...


Freudian slip?


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## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

Bearfootfarm said:


> Freudian slip?


Typing too fast. Unless you're mocking my spelling? I'll fix it just for you.


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## Evons hubby (Oct 3, 2005)

Irish Pixie said:


> I probably seems like that to you...


I prolly should clarify.... It seems that way on this forum, in my real life I find most women are quite content and happy with themselves, and their lives in general. Even here on ht the angry ones are in the minority, they just make a lot of noise which makes it seem worse than it is.


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## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

Yvonne's hubby said:


> I prolly should clarify.... It seems that way on this forum, in my real life I find most women are quite content and happy with themselves, and their lives in general. Even here on ht the angry ones are in the minority, they just make a lot of noise which makes it seem worse than it is.


You said what you said, dude. The first statement is usually the truth. After that it's usually backpedaling.


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

Irish Pixie said:


> Typing too fast. *Unless you're mocking my spelling?* I'll fix it just for you.


I was very clear in what I said in all my posts.
If you don't understand, "you seem to be not reading them for comprehension".


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## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

Bearfootfarm said:


> I was very clear in what I said in all my posts.
> If you don't understand, "you seem to be not reading them for comprehension".


Just wanted everything crystal clear, mocking spelling, grammar, etc. is against HT stated rules.


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## shawnlee (Apr 13, 2010)

What about women using sex as a weapon...……..do this OR you get none, do this and you get a real treat...……..do this and you get nothing.

I usually never see this much from guys......


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

Irish Pixie said:


> Just wanted everything *crystal clear*, mocking spelling, grammar, etc. is against HT stated rules.


Everything is crystal clear.
Report *all* the "rule violations" you see.
Keyword: *ALL*


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## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

shawnlee said:


> What about women using sex as a weapon...……..do this OR you get none, do this and you get a real treat...……..do this and you get nothing.
> 
> I usually never see this much from guys......


Maybe that is because you are not a woman and do not have occasion to be on the end if that kind of threat. It happens and has happened an awful lot. Hence the me too movement.


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## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

shawnlee said:


> What about women using sex as a weapon...……..do this OR you get none, do this and you get a real treat...……..do this and you get nothing.
> 
> I usually never see this much from guys......


If a woman (or man) does this to you remove them from your life.


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## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

Bearfootfarm said:


> Everything is crystal clear.
> Report *all* the "rule violations" you see.
> Keyword: *ALL*


Although you seem to want to, you have no control over what anyone else does.


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

Irish Pixie said:


> Although you seem to want to, you have no control over what anyone else does.


You're confused once more.
I don't care what you do.

You keep bringing up "the rules", pretending they have been violated.
If you think that's true, report it.

In *my opinion*, you are the only one who wants "control".
You get it by playing these same silly mind games every day.


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## Evons hubby (Oct 3, 2005)

shawnlee said:


> What about women using sex as a weapon...……..do this OR you get none, do this and you get a real treat...……..do this and you get nothing.
> 
> I usually never see this much from guys......


Guys do it too. Not so much with sex but other things like letting them wash my truck.


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## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

Bearfootfarm said:


> You're confused once more.
> I don't care what you do.
> 
> You keep bringing up "the rules", pretending they have been violated.
> ...


And you'd be wrong.


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## Evons hubby (Oct 3, 2005)

Irish Pixie said:


> Although you seem to want to, you have no control over what anyone else does.


Just like everyone else.


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

Irish Pixie said:


> And you'd be wrong.


I expected the denial.
That's part of the routine.

Patterns never change.
The evidence is there for anyone to see.


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## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

Yvonne's hubby said:


> Just like everyone else.


You do, even if you aren't supposed to do it.


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

Yvonne's hubby said:


> Just like everyone else.


Some seem to have none over themselves either.


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## Evons hubby (Oct 3, 2005)

Irish Pixie said:


> You do, even if you aren't supposed to do it.


Now that's funny right there! I have zero control over what anyone does!


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## FarmboyBill (Aug 19, 2005)

Say a gal is dressed to the 9s walking down the street, and a guy is walking towards her, sees her and walks into a telegraph pole. She had limited control over what he did.

Say a guy takes off his pants inna bar and women look away, most of m, he has had limited control over what the women did.


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## Evons hubby (Oct 3, 2005)

Alice In TX/MO said:


> Tell me l look nice. Hold the door.
> 
> I will appreciate it.


Sorry, but my arms aren't long enough to hold your door in Texas....but you do look particularly nice.... Specially when you smile. 

ETA: yes! Like you are right now! Perfect!


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## Alice In TX/MO (May 10, 2002)

Laughing out loud.


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